Rep. Devin Nunes Says Some of President Trump's Campaign Staff May have been wiretapped as part of incidental collection
SMERCONISH: The latest bombshell in the Russian hack investigation came on Friday. House Intel Chair Devin Nunes suddenly canceling Tuesday's public hearings about the Russian hack. Now, this capped a week of back and forth regarding Russia and President Trump's claim three weeks ago that he was wiretapped by President Obama. On Wednesday, Nunes suggested that Trump transition members may have been picked up in surveilled communications with foreign intelligence officials. The White House quickly seized this as substantiation of the president's tweets on March 4, which by the way I don't think it was. In other words, there's nothing in what Congressman Nunes said that justifies or substantiates President Trump tweeting that President Obama was a bad or sick guy who tapped him at Trump Tower. Remember, the critical tweet said that. "Terrible! Just found out that Obama had my wires tapped in Trump Tower just before the victory. Nothing found. This is McCarthyism." Only somebody not paying close attention will see this as affording President Trump a defense of what he said about President Obama and it is something that was predicted right here last Saturday by General Michael Hayden, former head of the CIA and NSA. Watch.</s>MICHAEL HAYDEN, FORMER DIRECTOR OF THE CIA AND NSA: I think where this is going, Michael, and I think this is the lifeline, that I think the administration is hoping they can grab on to is something that we call incidental collection. I suspect if there is any example of a US identity being unmasked that has any relationship to the Trump campaign or Trump Tower, and again, Michael, very normal, very correct, very legal, I think at that point the White House goes, aha, I told you so. I think this is where it is going.</s>SMERCONISH: He was prescient. On Wednesday afternoon, Congressman Nunes traveled down Pennsylvania Avenue to share his thoughts with the president, causing "The New York Times" in a Friday editorial to label him a lapdog in a watchdog role. Joining me now, former homeland security assistant secretary and CNN national security analyst Juliette Kayyem, who also hosts The Skiff podcast. Unpack, Juliette, what you heard from General Hayden and how those events played themselves out this week.</s>JULIETTE KAYYEM, FORMER HOMELAND SECURITY ASSISTANT SECRETARY AND CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, Hayden predicted exactly how it unfolded and one could even argue that maybe the White House saw him and thought this might be our lifeline. And so, what your viewers have to understand is that the law recognizes that there will be incidental collection, they're following a potential foreign intelligence agent, he happens to call me because we're doing some project together, and so therefore whatever I said to him might be captured. So, the law has in it - it specifically designates the potential for incidental collection and protects the US citizen who may not be under surveillance. And so, it's so normal that the fact that the Trump administration would come out and say, aha, this is the moment, and as you said, it really wasn't the moment, I think, shows a certain amount of desperation about the investigation and how it's unfolding at this age. I will say also on Nunes, it was a meltdown week for him because remember, by Friday, he was kind of even backtracking from what he said. He basically needs to go for having done this.</s>SMERCONISH: Well, I want to show you, show everybody, part of what he said this week after making that trip to the White House. Roll that tape please.</s>REP. DEVIN NUNES (R), CALIFORNIA: To me, it's clear that I would be concerned if I was the president and that's why I wanted him to know and I felt like I had a duty and obligation to tell him because, as you know, he's been taking a lot of heat in the news media and I think, to some degree, there are some things that he should look at to see whether, in fact, he thinks the collection was proper or not.</s>SMERCONISH: Juliette, when he said that he thinks there are things that he, President Trump, should look at, I said to myself, lacking your credentials, I said, wait a minute, that's your job.</s>KAYYEM: Yes. Basically, Nunes has one job and he didn't do it, right, which is to be the oversight committee, to ensure that this election was secure and that there is no collusion with the Trump campaign. Look, a lot of evidence is coming out. We're only talking about one story this week. There were stories about Manafort and his past lobbying efforts. By Friday, there was a story about Mike Flynn, the former national security advisor. All these different pieces cut across the spectrum from mere coincidence to potential collusion. And that's what an investigation is about. The idea that - they haven't shown anything yet. It seems to be the answer by Trump supporters. This is what an investigation does. It takes all those different pieces from foreign intelligence, wiretaps, surveillance, the potential that one of these witnesses - and I believe it might be Mike Flynn is talking to investigators about what he knows - all of those pieces will come together and we'll see at some stage whether a legal case can he made.</s>SMERCONISH: OK. So, now to go back to Gen. Hayden being prescient in saying that when all is said and done, the White House will try and portray in criminal terms what is the routine collection of incidental evidence. I want to show you President Trump seizing the moment. Roll the tape.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you feel vindicated by Chairman Nunes coming over there?</s>TRUMP: I somewhat do. I must tell you, I somewhat do. I very much appreciated the fact that they found what they found.</s>SMERCONISH: So, he now sees vindication, but I remind the audience of the tweet that began all this, three weeks ago today, just found out that Obama had my "wires tapped in Trump Tower just before the victory. Nothing found. This is McCarthyism." And in an interview with Michael Shearer at "TIME Magazine" this week, the president said, 'well, I had that in quotation marks.' I'm paraphrasing, but it's a very liberal interpretation of what I meant by wiretapping. Explain.</s>KAYYEM: When Trump said those tweets or when he wrote those tweets, he clearly wanted the American public to believe that President Obama himself, with no predicate, demanded of the FBI that they put wiretaps on Trump Tower and on Trump himself. First of all, you can't do that. There's no way that a president can do that. But assuming that he's right, it would be so - it's such a hostile statement about the previous administration and I think what's happened this week is it led Comey - Director Comey by Monday to say, look, this is about my investigators in this investigation.' I was wrong. I thought Comey would not validate that there was a criminal investigation going on or investigation going on about potential collusion with the Trump administration. It was a jaw- dropping moment. And the reason why I believe now Comey did that was to protect his agency and to protect the investigation. It's now almost impossible for the Trump administration to close down the FBI investigation. They can sort of be in collusion with Nunes, which is clearly the case right now, but it's almost impossible now for them to have any influence, which is good, over an independent investigation about Trump ties to the Russian hacking events.</s>SMERCONISH: Hey, Juliette, final thought, just tell me yay or nay if you agree because this gets confusing quickly. The big picture question is whether there was an aiding and abetting of a hacking. That's the legal issue, right? That's where this is headed. We don't know the answer to that question. But when all is said and done, that's the issue.</s>KAYYEM: That's the issue. And on a scale from 0 to 10, zero being these are all coincidences and ten is collusion, I'm now at a 7.</s>KAYYEM: Wow, OK. Juliette, thank you as always. Appreciate your expertise. All of our scales here today go from 1 to 11 because Harry Shearer is still to come. Those of you who remember Spinal Taps. As always, tweet me your thoughts @smerconish or post them on my Facebook page. Katherine, what have you got? It's clear as mud that Nunes is in Trump's pocket and not impartial. He must go and be investigated for his own Russian ties. Look, all I can tell you is, I don't think he should've made that trip down Pennsylvania Avenue and given a briefing to the president because that's not his role. His role is to be our eyes and ears and not the president's. That's how I see it.</s>SMERCONISH: Up next, it's a political Rorschach test. I love this. Put it up on the screen. What does this look like? What do you see in that image? Some see goofy kicking Donald Duck. It is actually Pennsylvania 7th congressional district that incorporates my neck of the woods, the Philly burbs. Redrawn that way and the GOP's Operation Redmap, which literally changed the shape of how America votes. It was a project that took gerrymandering to new highs or lows. How did it happen? I'll explain.