Candidates Trade Jabs in Final Debate; Joe the Plumber Speaks Out; McCain Says Obama's Plans Are Class Warfare
ROBERTS: She has been barnstorming across blue collar America and last night Senator Hillary Clinton was a surrogate for Barack Obama after the debate. And once again, Senator Clinton said she is not looking ahead to 2012 and does not want a position in the cabinet.</s>SEN. HILLARY CLINTON (D), NEW YORK: Really want to stay a senator. I am committed to being in the Senate, working with President Obama. I think we have a real chance to break the gridlock, get things done, start progress going again in America and I want to be part of that in the Senate. And one of the lessons that I took away from my husband's administration is don't take senators out of the Senate. You need every Democratic senator that you possibly can have.</s>ROBERTS: Clinton also said that Barack Obama is now a perfect three for three in the debates and that he displayed steady leadership. Twenty-six minutes after the hour. Joining me now is one time Hillary Clinton supporter and current Barack Obama supporter, Pennsylvania Governor Ed Rendell. Governor, it's good to see you. In terms of the performance that he put in last night, did Senator Obama help himself in explaining the need for a tax increase to Joe the plumber? Five years ago he said you needed a tax cut, now it's time to share the wealth. Is that the type of language that small businesses in America want to hear?</s>GOV. ED RENDELL (D), PENNSYLVANIA: Well, again, remember, John, the small businesses who don't clear a profit of $250,000 and that's most of them, that's about 90 percent of them, don't have to worry about a tax cut.</s>ROBERTS: Right.</s>RENDELL: So it's only the small businesses that are doing very well that do need to have a tax cut. Look, I think this is a time for Americans across the board to rally around their country. You know, I think George Bush made a huge mistake after 9/11. He should have called on all of us to forego that tax cut because we were going to go to war to make right what happened on 9/11. I think presidents have to lead. They have to call on Americans to sacrifice. And I think for Americans like my wife and myself who make a very good living, we make just on salary $350,000, for us to pay a little bit more in taxes is not a sacrifice for this country to make the improvements it needs to stay competitive.</s>ROBERTS: Let me --</s>RENDELL: Americans should understand we are challenged right now and unless we do something significant, this country is not going to stay a world leader.</s>ROBERTS: Let me stick with you on this idea of how it affects small businesses. Here's how John McCain put it last night when talking about it.</s>SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We're going to take Joe's money, give it to Senator Obama, and let him spread the wealth around. I want Joe the plumber to spread that wealth around. You told him you want him to spread the wealth around. The whole premise behind Senator Obama's plans are class warfare, let's spread the wealth around.</s>ROBERTS: So we just heard from Joe Wurzelbacher, Joe the plumber, a couple of minutes ago. The suggestion is that he would like to grow his business but if he grows his business he's going to get into this new tax bracket where everything that he makes above $250,000 will be taxed at an extra three percent. And what incentive is there to sort of pursue the American dream here if you're going to bump into these higher tax brackets? What incentive is there to try to expand your business?</s>RENDELL: First of all, what Senator McCain said is the same trickle down economics we've had for eight years and that has proved to be a flat-out disaster for the country. We created about a fifth of the jobs we did during the time Bill Clinton was president and, in fact, we're losing the jobs we created at a rapid rate of almost 100,000 a month. So let's be clear. Trickle down economics doesn't work to help 90, 95 percent of Americans. So we have to do something else. Is there an incentive for Joe six-pack? Sure, there is. Because if he makes more than $250,000, he'll continue to have more money in his pocket than if he made $150,000, he'll just pay part of the burden. I've never seen an entrepreneur say, I'm going to stop making money because the government is going to tax more of it. That's baloney. If the government taxes seven percent more, you still got the 93 percent extra that you made. That's just a speechless argument.</s>ROBERTS: But the opposite side of that argument is you keep taxes low. And where you try to save money is you go in there and you cut spending. You go through there...</s>RENDELL: And, John, how are we are doing now?</s>ROBERTS: ... either with a hatchet, with a scalpel or whatever, and you cut as much spending as can you and let businesses, let taxpayers try to grow the economy.</s>RENDELL: Well, how are we doing now? That's the philosophy that's predominated for the last eight years. And how are we doing now? We're doing terribly, and we got to do something that's very significant. But having said that...</s>ROBERTS: But nobody cuts taxes (ph).</s>RENDELL: ... that doesn't mean -- that doesn't mean that you shouldn't cut spending and you've heard Barack Obama say he's going to go over the federal budget with a fine tooth comb. He's already identified billions of dollars of savings and dealing with drug companies. Yes, there are savings to be rendered. There are absolutely savings to be rendered, but we need more fairness in this country. What do you say to the American worker who has busted his hump for 35 years and he sees his company go bankrupt, his pension gone, his health care gone, and he sees the CEO who brought that company to the brink of disaster getting $46 billion dollar bailout passage? There's got to be fundamental fairness. That's not class warfare that's fairness. You know, in Japan -</s>JOHN ROBERTS, CNN, ANCHOR: Certainly says something an awful lot on people. Governor Rendell -</s>RENDELL: It upsets an awful lot of people who are doing very well in this country. And we've got to start concentrating on the people who are challenged. That's the middle class. It's not the very poor, it's the middle class. John.</s>ROBERTS: Governor, thanks for being with us. It's always good to see you. Hope to see you more between now and November 4th.</s>RENDELL: Thanks, John. Go Phillies.</s>ROBERTS: All right.</s>KIRAN CHETRY, CNN, ANCHOR: Well, it's 30 minutes past 7:00 right now. Breaking this morning, worldwide recession fears sending stocks lower this morning, almost everywhere. Tokyo's Nikkei down more than 11. And markets all across Europe fell down sharply as well. Japan's prime minister blames the market trouble on America's "insufficient bailout plan." Right now, Dow futures are pointing up though more than 100. And gas prices down to $3.08 a gallon, according to AAA. The 77 percent drop in the past 30 days. New economic fears also sent oil prices to their lowest in more than a year hovering around 72 bucks a barrel overnight. Prices have not been that low since the summer of 2007. Vice President Dick Cheney is home this morning. He is doing better after doctors treated him for an abnormal heart beat yesterday. The 67-year-old vice president has had a history of heart trouble including four heart attacks. And we just heard Governor Rendell say go Phillies. The Philadelphia Phillies are headed to the World Series. It's their first trip to the fall classic in more than 15 years. Jimmy Rollins hit a lead off home run. They never looked back, beating the Dodgers 5-1 in game five. The National League champs will now have a week off before they play either Tampa or Boston. The closer we get to election day, the dirtier it's getting at rallies and on TV ads. John McCain trailing by eight points in our latest poll and stayed on the offense last night against Barack Obama.</s>SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't care about a washed up terrorist but as Senator Clinton said in her debate with you, we need to know the full extent of that relationship. We need to know the full extend of Senator Obama's relationship with A.C.O.R.N. who is now on the verge of maybe perpetrating one of the greatest fraud in voter history in this country, maybe destroying a fabric of democracy. Same fund outfit organization that your campaign gave $832,000 for lighting and site selection. So all of these things need to be examined.</s>SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Of course, Mr. Ayers has become the centerpiece of Senator McCain's campaign over the last two or three weeks. This has been their primary focus. So let's get the record straight. Bill Ayres is a professor of education in Chicago. 40 years ago when I was eight years old, he engaged in despicable acts with a radical domestic group. I have roundly condemned those acts. Ten years ago, he served and I served on a school board that was funded by one of Ronald Reagan's former ambassadors and close friends, Mr. Annenberg. Other members on that board were the president of the University of Illinois, the president of Northwestern University who happens to be a Republican, the president of the "Chicago Tribune," a Republican leaning newspaper. Mr. Ayres is not involved in my campaign. He has never been involved in this campaign. And he will not advise me in the White House.</s>CHETRY: After the debate, Barack Obama's campaign said two-thirds of the country already thought John McCain was running a negative campaign and "Senator McCain spent 90 minutes trying to convince the other third." So most debate watchers did think that Barack Obama got the best of John McCain last night. In fact, viewers gave their instant reactions in a CNN opinion research poll. 58 percent said they felt Obama won, 31 percent went with McCain. So all night long, the candidates tried to reach out to average Joe, people like Joe the Plumber, who's name came up more than 20 times. But with real concerns about their jobs and their homes did they connect? AMERICAN MORNING's Carol Costello watched the debate with some victims of the mortgage meltdown, the Ward family in Michigan. Hi there, Carol.</s>CAROL COSTELLO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Kiran. You know, I am in Macomb County, Michigan, and this county has been hit hard by the mortgage meltdown, more than 5,000 foreclosures in this county alone. That's why you see the for sale sign and the for rent signs in this neighborhood. The Ward family, one of those people who were foreclosed on, I sat down and watched the debate with them. Let's listen.</s>COSTELLO (voice-over): The Wards consider themselves the little guy, one who has fallen on hard times. They were eager to watch the debate with their kids, hoping to hear something that would help them.</s>OBAMA: What we haven't yet seen is a rescue package for the middle class.</s>COSTELLO: The Wards desperately want that. They lost their home to foreclosure, declared bankruptcy and while they are thankful they were able to rent nearby, it is not enough.</s>KEITH WARD, BANK FORECLOSED ON HOME: It's not our home. We don't own it. What can they do to help that? That's my question.</s>COSTELLO: That's the answer the Wards wanted from the candidates. Keith a registered Republican listened intently to John McCain but did not like what he heard. When John McCain was saying stuff like, you know, I understand why the middle class is angry did that resonate?</s>KEITH WARD: No. How can he under it? How can he really understand it? The man owns seven houses. He doesn't under how we feel.</s>JENNIFER WARD, BANK FORECLOSED ON HOME: So many of the politicians out there now that don't understand what the middle class is going through. And neither Ward liked McCain's idea for the government to buy and refinance troubled mortgages. They feel it helps the banks and not them. And McCain's references to Joe the plumber as every man was, according to Keith, annoying.</s>KEITH WARD: Senator McCain sounded like a used car salesman, pushing this Joe the plumber thing. All I heard out of him was big business getting cuts. Senator Obama, I heard us.</s>COSTELLO: What did resonate with them was Obama's plan to cut taxes for those making below $250,000 a year. The Wards told me Obama's calm demeanor comforted them too.</s>JENNIFER WARD: I'm tired of the smack, the smear campaign.</s>COSTELLO: Still, both Wards agree Obama won the debate handily but they're still not convinced he has the plan that will help them out of their economic nightmare. Although they are now leaning towards voting Obama.</s>COSTELLO: Now the Wards still have hope. Keith has a job and they are getting by. But, the Wards wanted to hear many more specifics from both candidates and they said they didn't hear those specifics last night.</s>CHETRY: You know, what struck me as interesting, Carol, is that you would think that would be the exact target of what John McCain was talking about with wanting to help people who are either in foreclosure, or under water by buying those mortgages and letting the people stay in their homes and they didn't feel that that worked for them.</s>COSTELLO: Well, it didn't work for them because - well keep in mind they already lost their home. Their home was auctioned off by a bank for $20,000. So nothing, either candidate said will help them get their home back and, you know, that's the most heartbreaking thing for them.</s>CHETRY: Yes. All right. They had a chance to see for themselves and as you said even though he's a Republican, he's now leaning towards Obama. All right. Carol Costello for us this morning. Thanks.</s>ROBERTS: 38 minutes after the hour now. Major movement in the battleground state with just 19 days left to go until election day. There is a color change in our magic map. We got the new numbers for you. You're watching "the most news in the morning."