Former NTSB Managing Director, Pilot Discuss Cockpit Guns
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: So we'll ask the question again: Should pilots be allowed to have guns in the cockpit? Joining us are two guests with opposing viewpoints. Peter Goelz is a former managing director of the National Transportation Safety Board. He's currently a senior vice president and director of Worldwide Crises Communications for APCO Worldwide. That's a PR firm based in Washington. And Gary Boettcher is an American Airlines pilot and a board member of the Allied Pilots Association. Thank you both for joining us this morning.</s>PETER GOELZ, FMR. NTSB MANAGING DIRECTOR: Thank you.</s>COSTELLO: Gary, I want to start with you. You are for arming pilots. What does this decision say to you about the Bush administration?</s>GARY BOETTCHER, ALLIED PILOTS ASSOCIATION: Well, in light of Vice President Cheney's comments yesterday and the day before about the inevitability of another terrorist attack, along with Director Mueller's from the FBI and Tom Ridge from the homeland defense, it just is astounding to me that we would lay the hands and the lives of airplanes and pilots and passengers at security screeners.</s>COSTELLO: Having said that, Peter -- having Gary say that, I should say, does the Bush administration get it?</s>GOELZ: Well, I think they do. This really falls under the category of for every complex problem there's a simple answer, and it's usually wrong. The unintended consequences of introducing tens of thousands of weapons into what is now a very secure environment is extraordinary and it would be a bad decision.</s>COSTELLO: Well, you're saying it's a secure environment, but it certainly wasn't on September 11.</s>GOELZ: Absolutely not. But the changes that have taken place and that are taking place I think are significant. The TSA and the DOT are moving aggressively to make sure that 9/11 will never happen again.</s>COSTELLO: How are they doing that?</s>GOELZ: Well, for one thing, the air marshal program is proceeding. And let me give you an example. The requirements for federal air marshals are the highest in law enforcement. It takes a 255 out of 300 on the weapons training course to pass. That's higher than Secret Service. Right now, 15 to 20 percent of the sky marshals can't meet that standard with extensive training and background. I think it's a very difficult thing to ask pilots to get that kind of proficiency. And if they don't have it, we're going to be in trouble.</s>COSTELLO: All right, Gary, give your answer to that. I mean, can pilots be trained to handle a gun on a plane?</s>BOETTCHER: Absolutely. We're talking about apples and oranges here. Federal air marshals have a completely different role than what pilots would have. We are looking to defend the cockpit only. We're not even getting out of our seats. I mean, for me and my 737, when I turn around in the seat to face an oncoming perpetrator, I'm looking at a distance of two feet. Federal air marshals, it's just a totally different environment in the back of the cabin. And we're not advocating carrying guns in the back whatsoever. We just want to defend the cockpit so we can safely get the airplane on the ground.</s>COSTELLO: And, Peter, isn't it true that there won't be a sky marshal on every flight anyway?</s>GOELZ: There won't be, that's correct. But remember, the doors to the cockpits are being strengthened. Just today, Airbus announced a bulletproof, penetration-proof door that's going to be going on all of their aircraft in the near future. Boeing has the same program. It will be very difficult to get into those cockpits in the future.</s>COSTELLO: So Gary, does that make you feel any better?</s>BOETTCHER: Absolutely not. I've got the specifications on those doors, and I know the doors that American Airlines is going to purchase. Myself, I can use equipment that's currently on the airplane in a matter of seconds, open that door up. Not only that, there's no such thing as an unpenetrable door. Any door can be breached. And in flights, particularly flights that go to Latin American or to Europe or to the Far East, those doors are opened multiple times for the physiological needs of the pilots. It's just counting on doors not being breached is just ludicrous.</s>COSTELLO: This debate will likely go on because Congress will take up the matter. I think there is already a bill introduced which may override this most recent decision. I want to thank you gentlemen both for being with us this morning and making us think about this very important issue -- Leon. TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com