Senate Will Vote Tonight On Skinny Repeal; CBO, At Least 16 Million More Lose health Insurance By 2026.
LEMON: Live pictures now from the senate floor and Senators are now speaking and they're getting ready to vote. It should happen about top of the hour. We expect a vote on the skinny repeal bill. The debate underway now, vote expected soon. There's Mike Enzi speaking. It's a last-stitch effort to roll back Obamacare.</s>STEPHEN MOORE, SENIOR ECONOMIC ANALYST, CNN: Well it is very misleading Don, because really what this bill essentially does, the skinny bill gets rid of the requirement that people buy in Obamacare policy. The CBO say 16 million people are going to lose their insurance that is not actually what is happening here. Its 16 million people who don't want the insurance and basically saying if is if you don't force theme buy it, they won't buy it, how does it help someone to buy something that they don't want.</s>NEERA TANDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE PROGRESSIVE CENTER FOR AMERICAN PROGRESS AND A FORMER ADVISER TO HILLARY CLINTON: Actually that is inaccurate. What actually happens when you fill the individual mandate is that you write the costs rise. There are people young and healthy who get insurance only when they get sick, because they will used the insurance as a costs rise as I have, for Steven every Republican has said they want to lower premiums and CBO just reported that it will increase premiums by 20 percent and that is one of the reasons why people lose coverage, because they'll be priced out of the market. I know insurance -- I know how it's really complicate and it's a little weird to do this, have a bill out and vote on it two hours later but I do think we should have facts and CBO did have that.</s>MOORE: It doesn't make any sense to say people are being hurt but when you forced to buy something they don't want, by the way that they can't afford. That is the whole point of the affordable care act. People can't afford the insurance, so they are paying the penalty rather than having the insurance because it is so expensive.</s>TANDEN: if they are paying the penalty then people don't lose coverage, right? You were raising the costs, premiums will go up and don't listen to me about the skinny bill, listen on the words of Lindsey Graham. He called it a disaster just a few hours ago. Republican after Republican today has said this bill is a disaster, it is terrible, they don't let the premiums increases, they don't like any element on his bill and yet they are going to vote for it. That is what people hate about politics and that is what happening in this process. And people lose coverage and raise prices.</s>MOORE: Look you are right. But this is not the solution, the skinny bill. The solution is to give people wide range of choices to do something like the Cruz amendment, were basically people want Obamacare they can have it, but to give people an offer where they can buy insurance plan. For young people Don, they don't have to buy Obamacare -- one thing, they don't have to buy Obamacare package, and they could buy insurance that cost half as much. Why are we forcing young people to buy insurance that actually --?</s>LEMON: I want to ask you. So you're saying this isn't the bill they wanted to pass. What if he doesn't do it? What if he doesn't do it? We're screwed. Sorry, what gives him confidence that this bill is not going to become the law just because Paul Ryan said it is not going to become a law?</s>MOORE: Well I think these Senators are going to need some kind of insurance and Republican can't break their word to the Senators, I just it would be you know I mean but here is the point.</s>TANDEN: they have broken their word all throughout the process. I am sorry.</s>LEMON: This are politician saying, give you my word. Come on.</s>MOORE: Look, I mean this is the deal the senate has made with the house. The senate will pass some bill hopefully we will see in an hour whether they pass this, if they do, they go to a conference and start writing a new law that will be some kind of compromise. This is all basically what to get 50 votes in the United States senate.</s>LEMON: it wasn't enough for him.</s>MOORE: McCain?</s>LEMON: Yes, McCain said it wasn't - Paul Ryan statement of promises, not enough for him he said.</s>MOORE: if it is not enough for him then we got a big problem. I don't see how you passed us without John McCain's vote. Then you are back in square one.</s>LEMON: This is the vice President Mike Pence he arrive at the senate a short time ago. Greeted by protesters, we'll listen.</s>LEMON: Again, he is been breaking a tie but they needed a 50/50 tie to move on earlier in the week, the Vice President cast the vote to do that. I just wanted to point that out since you said there was a big problem I don't have, John McCain and one other person doesn't vote for it. It is over.</s>TANDEN: Look, john McCain said that he was concerned about premiums in Arizona. We know premiums will go up. She did not come to congress to her people (inaudible) coverage for 15 million people and premiums will rise by 20 percent in her state. Senator, after senator after senator under the Republican side has said raising premiums is what they are opposed to. They want to vote for a bill that lowers premiums. They will go on record each and every one of them. The question is are these people going to vote for the American people or the needs of Mike Pence and Donald Trump, so far each and every one of them are putting their partisan politics first.</s>MOORE: Here is what Republican had completely lost about this. What you describe is what's happening with Obamacare. The premiums have doubles. The reason we are having this whole debate about repealing Obamacare is because the premiums had doubled people can't afford the coverage and you got the situation where 40 - you know 33 percent of counties either have zero or one insurance company, next year that is going to be 40 percent. It's getting worse and worse it is like the titanic.</s>TANDEN: You know what, this actually American people that is why the affordable care act is now twice to three times as popular as these proposals, that is why you can't get it happening.</s>MOORE: Why did Hillary Clinton lose the election then?</s>LEMON: They'll be able to figure this out during conference if they have not been able to come to an agreement thus far.</s>TANDEN: Seven months, seven years.</s>MOORE: First of all, if Obamacare was so popular, you know I mean look the election in November was essentially a (inaudible).</s>MOORE: That is a good question, Don. I can't defend the Republicans' behavior here. They should have this fixed within the first two weeks when they came in the office. They should have voted to repeal Obamacare which is what every single Republican voted for, who ran for congress and was elected. Someday they would vote to repeal Obamacare and basically they don't get this done, they've lied to the American people and the voters.</s>LEMON: I need to stop you guys, I am sorry, standby, I want to get to Ryan Nobles on Capitol Hill, our reporter there, Ryan, has a new information. What can you tell us?</s>RYAN NOBLES, WASHINGON CORRESPONDENT, CNN: Yeah, so as you saw there the vice President Mike Pence has arrived here on Capitol Hill. All that tells us Don is that the voters is going to be close. The Republicans definitely have the 50 votes they need. It shows us they're concerned that there might be a situation where there could be a tie and you played the video of when he arrived and we have to stay we haven't pointed this out much tonight. There has been a very active group of protesters since about 6:00 tonight. And you can hear them. They were yelling a combination of plain all old shame, they also yelled on shame on you and they also yelled kill the bill and there is no doubt that he heard that as he was walking into the Capitol today. But tonight I should say in preparations to cast potentially what would be the tie breaking vote to pass this bill.</s>LEMON: I want the viewer to listen to this, I will come back to you, and can we listen to what is happening outside the Capitol now.</s>SEN AL FRANKEN, (R) MINNESOTA: And basically people with preexisting conditions.</s>LEMON: This is Senator Al Franken speaking to protesters outside the capitol by the way, let's listen.</s>FRANKEN: Four lifetime pats. Americans are watching this.</s>LEMON: Anyway that is Al Franken speaking to protesters outside. Ryan I cut you off and yes you are exactly right, we do have the videos as well of the Vice President we played just moments ago. Vice President arriving on Capitol Hill to shops of shame, shame, and shame and again as we said the Vice President has been breaking the tie votes.</s>NOBLES: I guess the point I was going to make is we have a group of Senators that don't know how they're going to vote. Or are they listening to the debate. Or watching what's playing out on television or on c-span and making up their minds still. This could be the scenario that we're dealing with and as we've said many times tonight very few of the Republican Senators believe this particular bill should become law and they have all these reservations, because effectively if they vote this bill through tonight, they lose control over it. It goes back to the house. The house speaker has promised it will go to the conference committee where they can hash out their differences, but there are no guarantees. Yes, you're going to vote for this bill but you give up a lot of the power in this process and that is why there are some Democrats on the floor tonight that were employing upon Republican colleagues, let's go back to regular order, let's try this process from the beginning, let's try and come up with a bipartisan solution. It's been the entire summer. It has never change are the immovable position that many of this senators have on this key issues and when you talked about Medicaid, Medicaid not even address on this particular bill. That is not even addressing this bill. There's been no indication going to these conference committee is necessarily solve other problems. So if you're a Republican senator seating on office right now or the senate floor. The question now is it worth it for you to cast this vote which will be controversial regardless, is it worth it for you to cast the vote in affirmative and move this process forward or is there any thought process in the back of your mind that might be worth it to take a step back and regroup.</s>LEMON: And we shall see. Thank you Ryan, we'll get a back to you Ryan. I want to bring in now Senator Tammy Duckworth, an Illinois Democrats. Senator good to see you again, hope you're doing well, thank you for coming on. You guys are about to vote on this on the senate, do you think the Republican have the votes to pass this version of Obamacare repeal this so called skinny repeal?</s>SEN. TAMMY DUCKWORTH, (D) ILLINOIS: I think they do have the votes for it and it's appalling that they do. When you have somebody like Lindsey Graham who said that this bill was a disaster, fraud and terrible policy, his words and then he is going to vote for it.</s>LEMON: You think this is their putting Party over country?</s>DUCKWORTH: They're definitely putting party over country on this one. If you think this is fraud and a terrible bill, and this is a disaster, why would you vote for it?</s>LEMON: I wasn't to get your reaction, because we just got the new CBO score on this repeal. The skinny bill repeal, 60 million more uninsured by 2026, premiums going up by 20 percent.</s>DUCKWORTH: That 20 percent increase is on top of any increases that are going to be happening anyway. It reduces coverage for Americans and increases the cost. That is not what they promised to do. They promise that we would fix any problems that are in the Healthcare system right now and what they have done is made it worse.</s>LEMON: What do you think of the GOP health care strategy essentially saying -- I asked the two guests on before you what would make you think they could figure it out in conference?</s>DUCKWORTH: This is -- understand, Don that they could go into conference for five minutes and then the house can actually pull up this bill and vote on it and would become law. It is a cover to hide the true intent from the American people. There's nothing that says we have to hash anything out if they go to conference they could adjourn the same day and vote on this bill.</s>LEMON: As our reporter just said once they vote on the bill, they lose control of it.</s>DUCKWORTH: They absolutely, yes, we lose control of it. There's nothing to say Paul Ryan won't call this bill up for a vote.</s>LEMON: That was my question to the other guests as well. Why should GOP Senators trust that Paul Ryan won't allow this to become law?</s>DUCKWORTH: I don't trust Paul. And that they are looking for something else to vote onto make this happen and juts because he promised -- and he didn't promise to go into conference on this. He left himself an out. There's nothing to say that they won't know for a day or even just an hour or so and say oops sorry we can't hash --.</s>LEMON: How did he leave himself?</s>DUCKWORTH: In his statement and his spokesperson actually said he is not committing to going to conference and so what we're looking at now is voting on a bill that you have pointed out this CBO and it says put 16 million Americans on the streets without health insurance, increases health care cost by well over 20 percent and then what? Are we just going let Americans die, you know day after day after day I have been watching Americans come in here to say please, I'm fighting for my life, I am fighting for my child's life please don't do this, please kill this bill and I'm going to do I can to do it but I think they're votes in.</s>LEMON: What options, you are saying we have no options. Do you have any options tonight?</s>DUCKWORTH: Well the options we have are to try to delay as much as possible to make it clear what they are doing. To let the American public know what they are doing and then we're going to go home and fight this on the streets, on Main Street, in our town halls, all over this country to make the Republicans explain to the American people why they chose to abandoned American health care.</s>LEMON: Senator Tammy Duckworth of Illinois thank you so much, so good to see you, my old home state. I appreciate it. I want to bring in Patrick Healy, CNN Political Analyst and New York times Editor, thank you sir. Let's talk about what is in the skinny bill. It would repeal the individual and employer mandate and the tax on medical device makers, but keep the Medicaid expansion and subsidies. What do you think the impact of this if it does become law, because I am part of it at some point when it becomes law?</s>PATRICK HEALY, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: It's going to hit states with Republican governors now who are saying that is a good bill. The Republican governors of Ohio, Nevada and several other states, it's going to Senator Duckworth said it's almost certainly going to increase premiums by double digits. And it's going to be narrowing choice when you have a President who ran for election who said actually we want to strengthen the market, we want to expand choice, we want to lower premiums. There's nothing in this bill so far that says there are any guarantees those things are going to come to pass. Instead what you have an extraordinary moment. We have Republican Senators who are saying we're going to have to put our trust and to not push this bill to become law. What we've seen, President Trump, if this passes tonight, is going to start applying so much pressure. Right wing radio is going to apply so much pressure. Members of the house, so much pressure on ball Ryan, to get through conference what they -- the bill they ultimately want, or do a vote on this skinny repeal and send it right to the White House. The idea that somehow this can be held in advance and everything will be worked out many process, we haven't begun to see the pressure tactics that become to bare, to let's send something to the President's desk.</s>LEMON: Stephen Moore is still with me here, I want as Patrick mentioned that the President tweeted tonight, go, Republican Senators, go. Give America great health care. They're passing something that they don't want to become law, they know it's a bad bill, if they are confused about it and even the people reporting on it are confused about it, can you imagine what the people at home are thinking and what they will think once these people go back to their hometowns and have to face constituents?</s>MOORE: If you're asking me to defend this process, I can't do it. It's an ugly process. And it's become an ugly moment. What the real issue here is can we continue to live with Obamacare and the rising costs and insurance companies dropping out of the market. What Republicans need to do is they have to stress three things. They have to stress cost reduction, bringing premiums down, more competition. Forcing the insurance companies to compete with each other, and choice, giving every American a choice of the plan they want to buy. Those are things that are denied under Obamacare. If Republicans can pivot this debate back to those three principals, I think they can get the moral high ground back. They've lost that. No question about it.</s>LEMON: Is that possible, Patrick? He can't defend the process.</s>HEALY: The idea that you're going to, again, continue the process of reordering one-sixth of the economy based on a bill that was unveiled a couple hours ago and that is being moved through in the dead of night. And the Vice President just showing up, it is hard to defend. You look to Republican governors that they say, yes, we are members of this Party. We're loyal to this Party. But still, this bill is not hitting on numbers of priorities they have that are affecting people who live for real in their states, for real who depend on this kind of health insurance.</s>LEMON: I want to ask you, quickly, if you can give me. I have to get to the break. They're going to vote soon. You know how people whisper. They don't want to say it on camera. I heard Democrats say, maybe this should pass and people will see how bad it is and the Republicans will really own this. And Republicans are saying the same thing. Maybe we should let Obamacare -- what do you think of that?</s>HEALY: These whispers happen all the time. The Democrats need a strategy for the midterms in 2018. They want to win back house seats. They need a strategy for 2020. They don't have a clear standard- bearer going into 2020. Owning the unhinging of a major policy entitlement that a lot of people depend on is a huge deal. At the end of the day, both Democrats and Republicans have said in some of the states, this has helped poor people get health insurance that didn't have it before. It's going a little too far in the cynicism game to say that they're willing to throw those people off, just to pick off 15 house seats, 17 house seats.</s>LEMON: Patrick, Stephen, thank you very much. Again we're waiting the vote on the skinny repeal, the Republican skinny repeal that is their plan. Mike Enzi is still speaking at Wyoming. He doesn't want to yield his time, I'm told. The vote is supposed to happen at the top of the hour. We don't know if it will. But it's supposed to. You heard Tammy Duckworth of Illinois, the Democrat of Illinois, saying she believes they have the votes. Our Ryan Nobles saying, I'm not sure at this point. The vice President just made his way to Capitol Hill through throngs of protesters, people yelling shame, shame, and shame. We'll see what happens. Don't go anywhere. We're back right after this break.