Former Defense Secretary Rips Trump For Dividing America.
BERMAN: Former Defense Secretary General James Mattis slamming President Trump in a forceful rebuke of his former boss, calling him a threat to the Constitution. Joining us now, CNN Political Analyst David Gregory and Guy Snodgrass, a former speechwriter to Secretary Mattis, and author of Holding the Line Inside the Trump Pentagon with Secretary Mattis. Commander, let me start with you, and let me just read one quote here so people can hear it. I have watched this week's unfolding events angry and appalled. When I joined the military some 50 years ago, I swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution. Never did I dream the troops taking that same oath would be ordered under any circumstance to violate the constitutional rights of their fellow citizens, much less provide a bizarre photo-op for the elected commander in chief with military leadership standing alongside. I think calling this a forceful rebuke is sanitizing it, frankly. I mean, this is a punch in the gut. You worked with Mattis for a while. Why did he choose these words and why did he choose to speak them now?</s>GUY SNODGRASS, FORMER SPEECHWRITER TO SECRETARY MATTIS: Well, as you discuss at the top of the hour, you know, Secretary Mattis has caught some flack over the past few months because of his reticence to speak out. He has been very hesitant to say anything that might be construed or speaking against the president. And then he's made it a point he doesn't want to talk about a sitting president. So I think, in general, this just highlights for Secretary Mattis the seriousness of this moment in time and the concern that he has, which I share, and, in fact, as you mention, that's what my book talks about, is just when you politicize the military, you now degrade the trust and confidence with the American public. Mattis is concerned and he's ready to speak up.</s>CAMEROTA: I mean, Guy, a lot of disturbing things have happened obviously of late and over the past many years. But this moment, this moment, there's something about it that is making -- that is changing General Mattis', as you say, long held practice and belief in not speaking about a sitting president. And so, for instance, here is something that he says about the protests themselves. He says, we must not be distracted by a small number of law breakers. The protests are defined by tens of thousands of people of conscience who are insisting that we live up to our values, our values as a people and our values as a nation. There seems to have been something about the president using the military or the attorney general to beat back those peaceful protests so they could cross the street and have that a photo op in front of a church that was General Mattis' tipping point.</s>SNODGRASS: Right. And when you think about, once again, you're politicizing the military, something Mattis has been adamant about, and he was for the two years he served as defense secretary, is that you do not use the military in overtly political situations. When you do so, you erode the trust and confidence of the American public. So not only has this president used the military in a very politicized way over the last three and a half years, but we've seen, as you mentioned in the past week, that the military is standing guard on the streets, they're now -- the optics are incredibly poor that the military is somehow turning against the American public. And that's, of course, not the case but that's how people could interpret this. And that's not only Secretary Mattis, many have spoken out. I think the one who actually led the charge was former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Admiral Mike Mullen. He is the first one who spoke out. And now, you have Secretary Mattis and subsequently General John Allen, another friend of Secretary Mattis' who have since come out very forcefully to say that this is the not the proper use of the military. And not only that, but it risks eroding that trust and confidence. And that's something that once you've lost that, it could take years, if not decades to rebuild that trust.</s>BERMAN: David Gregory, I'm glad that Guy pointed out that are seeing many military leaders come out, from Admiral Mullen to General Mattis to John Allen as well. But I think that their concerns are beyond just matters of the military. When General Mattis talks about dividing and conquering it, it's not just about that. It's something bigger. John Allen is talking about an assault on the Constitution and the beginning of the end of the American experiment here. There is fundamental concern among these people that something has gone terribly wrong.</s>DAVID GREGORY, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: These are men who are valued, who are respected, who are honored in political circles, bipartisan political circles and in Washington for leadership. And so what Mattis is doing that is so stunning is calling out the president for lacking mature leadership for seeking to divide the United States, for raising the specter of the Nazis. That's General Mattis doing that, saying that their proposition, what they tried do in opposing forces of the United States was to divide and conquer. It's stunning as you sit back and think about that criticism and no tweet that the president, no criticism that he can level at Mattis will take away from the fact that he valued this man, he praised him up and down, there's always videotape when it comes to President Trump, and that Mattis saw him up close and has made this determination. And I think that's what I'm really sitting with this morning. The idea that you have somebody of the likes of General Mattis who is saying, in a time of pandemic, when you have 100,000 dead, when you have 40 million without jobs because of the coronavirus, when you have a stunning act of violence against an African-American man, George Floyd, a president's job is to bring people together, to lead the entire country. And what Mattis is saying is no, the president has never tried to do that. He's only tried to lead his political base. That's not what you do. That's not what the moment calls for.</s>CAMEROTA: And just to remind people of what David Gregory was talking about in terms of all of the times, that President Trump heaped praise on General Mattis and how proud he was to have General Mattis on his team. Let's recap that and play a few moments.</s>DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: We are going to appoint Mad Dog Mattis as our Secretary of Defense. I have a general who I have great respect for, General Mattis. Secretary Mattis has devoted his life to serving his country. I think he's a terrific person. He's doing a fantastic job. Mad Dog plays no games. He's a man of honor, a man of devotion.</s>CAMEROTA: Guy, you would know better than us how General Mattis felt even on the receiving end of the positive stuff, never mind the -- today's negative stuff. What do you think this has been like for him? And in terms of the words, because you were his former speechwriter, when he goes after -- not goes after -- when he comments on President Trump's character, saying that, for the past three years, we've been without mature leadership, those are carefully chosen words. What is he trying to tell us?</s>SNODGRASS: Well, I think he's sending a very clear and unequivocal signal that he has very clearly broken with this president, as has other senior military leaders. Just like David mentioned, it does go far beyond the military. It is about a lack of ethical leadership. It's about the lack of someone who is going to unify this country. Mattis, as you mentioned, chose those words very carefully because he wants to send a signal that he no longer stands with this president. He does not believe with the direction President Trump has taken certainly of late as he seeks to divide the country. But the biggest concern I would have at this moment in time is not only just here at home but it's also abroad. I mean, if you're an adversary, if you're a Russia, a China and you're looking at the United States right now, you're seeing a country that is openly divided and has been so for now three and a half years. So there's the risk of, one, do you lose Secretary Esper as the secretary of defense? Two, do you actually have your adversaries miscalculate and believe that because we're distracted here at home, that gives them an opportunity to maybe take advantage of the situation abroad? And I think that that would be a severe miscalculation, America's military remains ready. But you could forgive them for thinking that we are in a less than ideal situation. And certainly with Secretary Esper being the fourth secretary of defense under President Trump's tenure, if there was any risk to Secretary Esper's job, that could be one of the worst things that could happen to the U.S. military right now.</s>GREGORY: Can I add one coda to all of this, because you have the White House trying so hard to counterattack and to try to bolster the president's image, the notion that his press secretary compared him to Winston Churchill touring bombing sites during the blitz, I saw that and I thought, you know what one major difference was? Churchill was willing to be vulnerable with the public. He would actually weep when he would go to those bombing sites. He was able to be compassionate, to feel the pain of what the people were going through, as well as show their resolve. The contrast is quite stark, I think, with this president at this time.</s>CAMEROTA: Guy Snodgrass, David Gregory, thank you both very much. George Floyd is just one of so many unarmed black men and women killed at the hands of police. Up next, we're going to speak with the mother of a young man, Amadou Diallo, whose death sparked anger across the country more than two decades ago now.