Southern California Fire Forces Road Closures; Iraqi Forces Battling ISIS for Ramadi
FEYERICK: And happening today, there's new video of the fierce battle to retake Ramadi's city center from ISIS fighters. And video of the constant bombing that has left the city in ruins. Iraqi officials say progress is slow because ISIS fighters have left behind booby traps and IEDs, improvised explosive devices. They predict Iraqi troops are very close to re-taking the city completely. So how crucial is the fight for Ramadi? Earlier I spoke with Lt. General Mark Hertling. He's a CNN military analyst and a former U.S. Army commanding general. I also spoke with CNN military analyst, Lieutenant Colonel Rick Francona. He's also a former Defense intelligence officer. I began by asking General Hertling why retaking Ramadi is so crucial.</s>LT. GEN. MARK HERTLING, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Many more reasons than Robyn just stated, Deb. I think what you're also talking about is a resurgence of the Iraqi Security Forces. It has shed itself of some very poor leaders that it had had during the final days of the Maliki regime. And it is also showing that the Baghdad government is supporting those other than the Shia militias. So that's very important in Ramadi. So it is somewhat of an operational victory, as it will be once they finish going through this particular town.</s>FEYERICK: And also interesting is sort of the makeup of this, because you do have the Iraqi forces. You also have the Sunni tribesmen, who are going to maintain control of the land that they get. But the Shia militias are nowhere, and that's important because that's a fundamental shift to allow the Sunnis to feel OK, we're back in the game. How do you see it, Lieutenant Colonel?</s>LT. COL. RICK FRANCONA, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Yes, that's exactly right. It's important that the Sunnis are seen as involved in this. And this is very reminiscent of the Anbar awakening back in 2007, where the tide of battle was turned by those Sunnis joining forces with the Americans at the time, and now you see the Sunnis joining with the Iraqi forces. This is critical. And this is going to -- this will spell a really good omen for the future. Once they take Ramadi, they've got to hold Ramadi, and you have to have the Sunnis to do that. The Shia can't do this. What we're seeing now is, I think, a dress rehearsal for what's going to happen in Mosul.</s>FEYERICK: Which is where they're going to move to next. A very interesting thing, also, is there are a lot of citizens that are in Ramadi, and those citizens are really being used by ISIS as fodder. And that's one of the reasons that, I guess, the troops have been sort of slow to move. How did they play a role in all of this, General?</s>HERTLING: This is very tough, Deb. I saw this when I was in Iraq in 2008, where al Qaeda would come in and actually repress the local populous, use them as shields, kill them off, use them to bargain. And this is exactly the same thing ISIS is doing. The new soldiers -- you've got to remember, too, these -- the majority of the forces going into Ramadi right now are relatively Green troops. These are folks who have just come together in those new brigades. Even though they do have the golden division with them, most of the forces have recently been trained by the coalition. So these are Green troops going against an enemy that is using their fellow citizens as shields. That's extremely difficult to face as a soldier, when you see perhaps neighbors and friends and fellow tribesmen being held hostage or being put up in front of you as shields.</s>FEYERICK: Right, ironically --</s>HERTLING: A tough decision call for some of those soldiers.</s>FEYERICK: Yes, and ironically, ISIS using the very citizens that technically they are trying to recruit to their caliphate. Colonel, the coalition and Iraqi forces have been working to disrupt ISIS supply lines. Today we're hearing that one of the major roots into Raqqa, Syria, is being disrupted. How effective do you think that will -- will be effectively this strategy?</s>FRANCONA: Well that is effective, and we are seeing this. This is a long-term strategy, and this goes through the retaking of Mosul which we know is the key to Iraq getting rid of ISIS. So they are trying to isolate Mosul. They are going to cut those supply lines. The fighting at Sinjar earlier, Tal Afar, just a few weeks ago, and now cutting the supply line between Raqqa and Mosul, that is critical to isolating that, because once you isolate Mosul, then you can surround it and go in and take it. Very much -- let's remember, Mosul is a huge city, a scale of magnitude much larger than Ramadi and we've got long supply lines. So this isn't going to happen in the next few weeks but we are starting the process, and cutting the supply lines is crucial to that.</s>FEYERICK: Do you think, just very quickly, gentlemen, that this sort of chokes ISIS in a way, at least here in Ramadi, and then perhaps even in Mosul, or do those who leave Ramadi go to Mosul to defend it there? I'll start with you, General.</s>HERTLING: Yes, it certainly does, Deb. And this has been the strategy all along. When many people were saying there wasn't a strategy, this was part of it, to cut the supply lines, cut the logistics, take out and destroy the leadership, make the population -- give the population a chance to rise, and at the same time, provide time for the Iraqi Security Forces to build up. Mosul is key, as Rick just said, but there are going to be a lot of other fights before Mosul. They have to take -- the Iraqi Security Forces have to take a city called Shirkat, another one called Hawija on the way to Mosul, all to establish the base for resupply. So I agree completely with what Rick said. This is not going to take days or weeks. This is probably going to continue to take months before Iraqi Security Forces can get to the north and take this final city.</s>FEYERICK: And the war on ISIS has dominated international stories this year. The rapid spread of the jihadist group and the attacks in Paris are changing the way the U.S. and other countries are fighting ISIS. Some of CNN's top foreign correspondents gathered for a look at the war on ISIS and what we can expect in the year ahead.</s>CLARISSA WARD, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Paris has been such a game changer because as closely as I've been following the sort of reach of militant groups like ISIS in Europe and in the West, I had never expected them to be able to pull off something this organized, something that's well orchestrated.</s>NIMA ELBAGIR, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Did you think it was that organized and that well orchestrated? No, I don't think it was.</s>WARD: The main thing that didn't go as well as they were hoping were the vests, the suicide vests.</s>ARWA DAMON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: They accomplished their goal.</s>ELBAGIR: But they accomplished their goal --</s>DAMON: It has us talking about it. Yes.</s>ELBAGIR: Yes. But there's a difference between extraordinarily complex, well-organized attacks that need an infrastructure and eight guys with some vests --</s>DAMON: Oh, no, I think they had an infrastructure.</s>IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: What surprises me a little bit about this is I think the lack of a short-term memory. I mean, it was a decade ago that we were looking at al Qaeda carrying out massive attacks, which killed scores of people.</s>WARD: Yes.</s>WATSON: And we kind of forget the fear and panic of those days.</s>WARD: Well, also, the whole nature of recruitment was different.</s>WATSON: Yes.</s>WARD: Like al Qaeda was recruiting in the</s>WATSON: In the mosques.</s>WARD: And it was an entirely different prospect. Jihad was very abstract concept.</s>WATSON: And now these are Facebook jihad.</s>WARD: Now these are like your own friends.</s>WATSON: Who are doing it in their bedroom, yes.</s>WARD: -- each other in their bedrooms. So it's a completely -- I think for intelligence authorities, it's a very frightening prospect.</s>ELBAGIR: But this kind of, I know he grew a beard, he started going to the mosques, these are the telltale signs of radicalism, that entire landscape --</s>WATSON: He started drinking.</s>WARD: Yes. Changed.</s>ELBAGIR: -- has changed now.</s>DAMON: But that also -- all that goes to the greater underlying issues that we have in society and what ISIS has now done for people that are even slightly so inclined is give them that sense of purpose.</s>ELBAGIR: And the question is --</s>DAMON: So the next question is, it's not just in terms of intelligence, how do we fight this, but how do you actually fight that ideology? How do you revamp society where these kids have a different sense of purpose?</s>WATSON: All of these kids, their parents came to Europe for a better life. And the sad irony is that their offspring grow up into people who attack Europe.</s>WARD: And we have this misconception that ISIS is all about radical Islam. ISIS is a product of like a bunch of very complex geopolitical historical trends that have been brewing for years.</s>WARD: It's not just about Islam.</s>NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It's also terrifying that some guys who clearly aren't particularly mentally well configured, in San Bernardino, can go and shoot some coworkers with a lot of assault weapons and put something on Facebook and that somehow joins a global movement.</s>ELBAGIR: And there's almost like a wave of hysteria, you know, that's building on each other. You know you saw Paris happened and then you saw San Bernardino kind of crest off it and then crest -- it's like a contagion in a way.</s>DAMON: But I there needs to be not hysteria, but, like, let's not underestimate the threat, either.</s>WARD: Yes.</s>DAMON: I mean, it is huge.</s>FEYERICK: And coming up, the science behind the NFL's biggest problem.