Interview with Senator Ron Wyden of Oregon
TAPPER: Welcome back to THE LEAD. Time now for our national lead. Senate Intelligence Committee Chairwoman Dianne Feinstein has spent much of the past year defending the intelligence community over Edward Snowden's leaks and more. But she's now in a standoff with the CIA, accusing them of searching computers and removing documents that her committee was using to investigate the agency's now defunct interrogation program. She says the agency may have violated the Constitution and may have broken federal law.</s>SEN. DIANNE FEINSTEIN (D-CA), INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE CHAIRWOMAN: I have grave concerns that the CIA's search may well have violated the separation of powers, principles embodied in the United States Constitution, including the speech and debate clause.</s>TAPPER: It was great timing for Senator Feinstein because CIA Director John Brennan was taking questions today at the Council of Foreign Relations and he was asked to respond to her accusations.</s>JOHN BRENNAN, CIA DIRECTOR: As far as the allegations of, you know, CIA hacking into Senate computers, nothing could be further than the truth. When the facts come out on this, I think a lot of people who are claiming that there has been this tremendous sort of spying and monitoring and hacking will be proved wrong.</s>TAPPER: Joining me now is Democratic Senator Ron Wyden of Oregon, who serves on the Senate Intelligence Committee. Senator, thanks so much for joining us. So, Senator Feinstein, as the chair of the committee, has taken the helm on this issue. You, obviously, have been heavily involved as well. Here's you questioning CIA director Brennan on January 29th, what the time seemed to be a rather cryptic issue.</s>SEN. RON WYDEN (D), OREGON: Does the federal Computer Fraud and Abuse Act apply to the CIA? It seems to me that's a yes or no question.</s>BRENNAN: I would have to look into what that actually calls for and it's applicability to CIA's authorities.</s>TAPPER: It seems clear that you were referring to this. Brennan responded to you by letter saying the act does not, quote, "prohibit any lawfully authorized investigative, protective or intelligence activity of an intelligence agency. Feinstein made it clear she thinks the CIA may have violated the Constitution. What do you think?</s>WYDEN: Well, Mr. Brennan also did say, Jake, that in fact the computer fraud law does apply to them and the reality is those computers, in effect, belong to the CIA but they were reserved exclusively for the committee's use. And what this goes to, the fundamental question here is whether the Congress of the United States is going to be able to do effective oversight over the intelligence apparatus. And again and again, it is not just this instance, but again and again, the intelligence leadership has in effect thwarted the ability of Congress to get the information it needs to do that oversight.</s>TAPPER: Do you think that by searching in these computers and doing what the CIA admits it did back when Brennan met with Feinstein and Saxby Chambliss, her Republican counterpart, do you think that was a violation of the Constitution of the Fourth Amendment or any other federal law?</s>WYDEN: I think that the facts that were laid out by the committee chair, Senator Feinstein, today are very credible and, yes, the reason I asked that question that you put on tape, Jake, is that I think it raises very troubling questions. And I also, before we go any further, want to make clear what I think is the bottom line. I'm becoming convinced that the CIA is simply fearful of the interrogation report being made public and I think it's time for the American people to get that information, they ought to get it consistent with making sure that a national security information is not contained, that the American people have a right to know.</s>TAPPER: Brennan, when he was asked about this today, he denied hacking into Senate computers. That's not really what he's accused of doing, though, is it?</s>WYDEN: I think that Senator Feinstein laid those facts out in a very straightforward manner. What I'm concerned about again is whether or not the agency is going to understand what the president of the United States said and that is vigorous oversight is necessary and in fact the Constitution speaks to it. We've got to be able to do that and that's the bottom line.</s>TAPPER: Edward Snowden issued a statement. He pointed out what he considers to be hypocrisy by Senator Feinstein, calling this a constitutional issue. He says so are the NSA policies he's made public, he argues that Feinstein believes it's only a scandal when it happens to a politician. I know that you have been out there on the forefront trying to bring attention to this NSA surveillance programs. What do you say to Edward Snowden?</s>WYDEN: My view is that this is a part of a pattern by the intelligence leadership. We saw, for example, the head of the NSA, Keith Alexander, say we don't hold data on U.S. citizens. I consider that to be one of the most false statements that's been made about surveillance. So, we have false statements. We have misleading actions. And today, it looks like to me, once again, that we're going to face the question, will the committee be able to do its job, which is vigorous oversight.</s>TAPPER: What do you think needs to happen, Senator? Does John Brennan need to lose his job over this?</s>WYDEN: What happens, what now in terms of the priorities for me is that the agency has to answer the questions that it was sent by the committee. That's the first thing that we need to have to get straight answers and it seems to me that the CIA ought to set the record straight about what it did and I will tell you, I find it very troubling when they in effect make referrals to prosecutors when committee investigators are trying to do their job.</s>TAPPER: Senator Ron Wyden, Democrat of Oregon and a member of the Senate Intelligence Committee -- thank you so much.</s>WYDEN: Thank you.