Who Sicked Homeland Security Department on AWOL Texas Democrats?
BEGALA: Let's talk politics here on CROSSFIRE. John Kerry today unveiled a health care proposal that Senator Kerry says will cut costs and cover virtually every American. Many of his Democratic rivals have proposed plans of their own, and seven of the nine Democratic presidential candidates are expecting to be in Des Moines, Iowa tomorrow for a two-and-a-half hour town hall meeting. Meanwhile, the Bush-Cheney team today filed papers showing that they want to win their first election to the White House in 2004. It would be a change. In the CROSSFIRE to talk presidential politics, Republican strategist Terry Holt and Democratic consultant Kiki McLean.</s>CARLSON: Kiki, thanks for joining us. I want to get back to this DLC memo, the Democratic Leadership Council. A pretty mainstream group in which your friend, Senator Joe Lieberman of Connecticut, was a driving force.</s>KIKI MCLEAN, DEMOCRATIC CONSULTANT: And I am former staffer of.</s>CARLSON: Well amen. I'm sure you heard the critique of many of the people running for president from the DLC. They are members of the McGovern-Mondale wing defined principally by "weakness abroad and elitist interest group liberalism at home." That is a deep critique and it calls into question the basic tenets, the underpinnings of a certain part of the Democratic Party. Can a candidate who represents that wing win?</s>MCLEAN: I am shocked. I am shocked, Tucker, that you, in fact, would maybe misrepresent something that that memo had said. Not really. What you said was that that's their critique of most of the Democrats running this year.</s>CARLSON: No, I didn't say most. I said some.</s>MCLEAN: What that memo from the Democratic Leadership Council was really about, and what former President Clinton had to say in some conversations with DLC Democrats, was about what a winning Democrat needs to be in 2004.</s>CARLSON: Kiki, please. This is an attack on specific -- it says, "When activists like Dean called the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party" -- it's a specific attack on a specific candidate.</s>MCLEAN: No it wasn't an attack. It was a statement to Governor Dean, for whom they have a great deal of respect. His record as a governor is a great one.</s>CARLSON: I can tell.</s>MCLEAN: But, as a presidential candidate, that he, in fact, is being exclusionary. That he is the one maybe drawing the line saying you had to be against the war in Iraq when, in fact, we have very strong Democrats who supported the actions taken in Iraq</s>BEGALA: You support Joe Lieberman.</s>MCLEAN: I support Joe Lieberman. And as a Democrat in my own right, I supported the actions that we took in Iraq. I think the diplomacy was a drag and I supported the actions because I thought we had to take them.</s>BEGALA: Well let me bring Terry Holt into this, though, Kiki.</s>MCLEAN: And as a Democrat, I think Governor Dean is wrong to do that and I think it's legitimate for other Democrats to engage in the debate.</s>BEGALA: I'm sorry, Kiki. I want to bring Terry into this. Let me switch now to your party's certain nominee, President Bush, who last night won a huge political victory. First, congratulations to the Republicans.</s>TERRY HOLT, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Actually, two last night. He passed his AIDS initiative last night.</s>BEGALA: Not as politically difficult. Good for him. But on the tax cut, an important win for the president. I wonder, though, what now does he do if it doesn't work? He's now personally responsible for the deficit, unemployment...</s>HOLT: Well, it's going to work.</s>BEGALA: No, I'm sure you believe it will. But if it doesn't, isn't it true -- let's just stipulate -- that President Bush now is fully accountable for the American economy going into this reelection.</s>HOLT: Well he's always been engaged in the economy. And let's look a at what this tax bill will do. It will give about $1,000 to even low middle income families. I can't imagine people thinking $1,000...</s>BEGALA: Well we can discuss that, but I want to get to the politics...</s>HOLT: ... isn't a good idea.</s>BEGALA: He is now accountable for the economy, right? He's not going to blame Clinton or bin Laden or Santa Claus or whoever else he blames?</s>HOLT: Every president holds some responsibility for getting the economy moving again. But while everybody was playing politics and, frankly, knives coming out at the DLC yesterday, the president was arguing for more jobs and more economic growth. And last night scored a big victory on that. And as long as he is focused on the economy and he's taking care of business on the national security side, he's going to be in pretty good shape.</s>BEGALA: But if it doesn't generate more jobs, which he promised 1.4 million...</s>HOLT: Well, you know there's been a recession, there's been a war. You know he inherited a lot of important...</s>MCLEAN: Terry, you can't say you had a big victory and then condition it on all the things that you won't be responsible for. If you're the president of the United States and...</s>HOLT: It's a $12 trillion economy.</s>MCLEAN: That's right, and he's they guy in charge. He gets the blame and he gets the credit.</s>HOLT: Absolutely.</s>MCLEAN: So if he gets to fly out on the aircraft carrier and have a pretty picture, he gets the blame when it doesn't work.</s>HOLT: You guys love that picture.</s>CARLSON: You do. And I think most people do.</s>CARLSON: Kiki, I want to hit you with one of the saddest, maybe the saddest poll I've seen in a long time. It's from CBS News and "The New York Times." And it asked this past week "Can you name anybody who is running for president as a Democrat?" Sixty-six percent of Americans couldn't name a single Democratic candidate for president.</s>MCLEAN: That's OK.</s>CARLSON: But I want you to listen to this. Among Democrats, only 10 percent could name Joe Lieberman, who apparently has run before on the national ticket.</s>MCLEAN: That's OK.</s>BEGALA: He won, didn't he?</s>CARLSON: And fewer Democrats could name John Kerry than Republicans could. Fewer Democrats -- what, Democrats are not paying attention? What? Tell me. Spin it for me.</s>MCLEAN: First of all, I'm going to guess that it was probably a bad sample, because he got more votes than George Bush did. So we know more people know who he is. So that's number one, OK? Number two, early in the process. You know you spend your life -- because you do have a job, Tucker. You wake up in the morning, you pay attention. Most people in America are trying to raise their kids, hold down their jobs. A lot of them are trying to find a job because they don't have one.</s>CARLSON: So they can't remember his name?</s>MCLEAN: They're busy enough that they're not engaged in politics the way you and I are, and that's why we have a campaign process so that we have the opportunity to raise information, bring it to the public, make sure that candidates get to put their positions out and hopefully invite people to participate in the process.</s>HOLT: And most new polls also tell you that people are dreading this season coming up with nine candidates, all out after each other. But most people after 2000 would just as soon go the president's way, which is nice, quiet, structural set up.</s>HOLT: We're going to have a great campaign. It's going to be a very close campaign.</s>BEGALA: He's going to have an enormous problem on this front, I think. And that is, on this issue out of Texas today. There's a story that the Department of Homeland Security was used to spy on Democrats. Joe Lieberman, Kiki's boss, has called for -- and you know what, they were thoroughly investigated by special counsel. Let's have a special counsel for this as well, Terry. Terry Holt is calling for a special counsel to investigate the politicization of the Department of Homeland Security? Are you? Are you supporting an investigation of that?</s>HOLT: I have no idea what the story is.</s>BEGALA: Shouldn't it have the same investigation?</s>HOLT: It seems to me that you're picking it a little bit of this and that. And you've got to go a long way to get...</s>BEGALA: No, no, no. I want to know if you would advise President Bush and Tom DeLay to cooperate with an investigation of whether they had a role in politicizing homeland security.</s>HOLT: I don't know the facts, but it seems to me...</s>BEGALA: Should they cooperate?</s>CARLSON: Now, Kiki, notice so much of the criticism aimed at the White House is of the most small and boring kind, like this.</s>MCLEAN: I don't know, I think two million lost jobs isn't small, Tucker. I don't know. I think that's pretty big</s>CARLSON: OK. You want to talk big issues? I want to talk the single biggest political issue there is going into this campaign, and that is, who protects the public better from terrorism? Every poll ever that I've seen on the subject has the same result. Here's the latest.</s>MCLEAN: The president opposed the creation of the Homeland Security Agency for five months or the Democrats who proposed it? I don't know, which one do you think?</s>CARLSON: If I could just ask my question, perhaps you could attempt to answer it. Fifty-eight percent say the Republicans are better at protecting them from terrorism, 18 percent say Democrats. That's 40 points. You've got to close that gap; you can't win. Isn't that right?</s>MCLEAN: I think you've got to make sure that people understand who is not funding homeland security right now, and that's George W. Bush. Who opposed creating the Homeland Security Agency? And that was George W. Bush. Who actually proposed it to begin with? Joe Lieberman, the father of homeland security. And, in fact, what this president is doing to governors and their budgets to provide homeland security to first responders at the grassroots level in our towns, in our neighborhoods, in our communities, is an absolute shame.</s>CARLSON: Is the public too dumb to figure this out? Is that why 40 percent is the spread?</s>MCLEAN: Well, you might think they're dumb. I think they're busy trying to live life every day, Tucker. And I think that's why we all have an obligation as Republicans and Democrats to get into the debate. You know I love that you want to cite polls, but I've got news for you. I think Saddam Hussein had 100 percent name I.D. I don't think it worked out so good for him. So I'll live with the low poll number for a little while, OK?</s>CARLSON: OK. When we come back I'll try to figure out what that means. And we will be right back. And when we do come back, we will have a look at the headlines. And then, it's "Rapid Fire," the quickest question-and-answer session in television. Later, another bizarre combination. Fishing rods and elephant statues, they have something in common. We'll tell you what it is. We'll be right back.