Hamas: Terrorists or Political Players?
CAMEROTA: Former President Jimmy Carter has added his voice to how to solve the Middle East crisis. He says it's time for the U.S. to recognize Hamas as a legitimate political group, rather than its current designation as a terror group. Alan Dershowitz has some strong thoughts on that. His latest book is "Taking The Stand: My Life in the Law." Alan, great to see you.</s>ALAN DERSHOWITZ, ATTORNEY: Thank you.</s>CAMEROTA: OK. Former President Carter's position is that the best way to end the fighting in Israel is to sort of legitimatize Hamas. Let me read to you what he wrote in this piece. He says: "The United States and the E.U. should recognize that Hamas is not just a military, but also a political force. Hamas cannot be wished away, nor will it cooperate in its own demise. Only by recognizing its legitimacy as a political actor, one that represents a substantial portion of the Palestinian people, can the West begin to provide the right incentives for Hamas to lay down its weapons." What do you think?</s>DERSHOWITZ: Well, we already recognize Hamas. We recognize it as a foreign terrorist organization. And the law provides that providing any material support to a foreign terrorist organization is illegal and against the law. And --</s>CAMEROTA: Yes, but he wants it recognized as a political group.</s>DERSHOWITZ: I understand that. But it is both political and military. What is its politics? Its politics -- let me read from its charter. It says: "Hamas has been looking forward to implementing Allah's promise, fight the Jews until the Jews hide behind rocks and trees which will cry, oh, Muslim, there is a Jew hiding behind me. Come out and kill him."</s>CAMEROTA: Yes. That's a sticking point. That charter is a problem.</s>DERSHOWITZ: Well, it's not only the charter, but its leader today talked about the blood libel, and said Jews use the blood of Christians to make matzah. They blame the Jews on all the problems in the world. And they have devised this horrible strategy of using children and babies as human shields in order to fire at Israeli civilians, force them to the tragic choice of either not firing back or trying their best to avoid civilians, but knowing that some civilians will be killed, and then showing the babies on television to turn the world's attention against Israel.</s>CAMEROTA: And yet the constant bombing of Hamas targets in Gaza doesn't seem to have eradicated them. They haven't gone anywhere. Since 2006, when they were voted into office, they haven't necessarily been weakened.</s>DERSHOWITZ: No, the mafia hasn't disappeared either. We negotiate with the mafia. We don't recognize terrorist organizations and give them legitimacy. The media is at fault here too. They sometimes present Israel, a democratic nation, and Hamas as morally equivalent. Israel plays by the rules. Israel tries its best to avoid civilian casualties. The difference is that Hamas uses its civilians to protect its fighters, whereas Israel uses its fighters to protect civilians.</s>CAMEROTA: Yes, I have heard this argument before.</s>DERSHOWITZ: Right.</s>CAMEROTA: But, as a member of the media, I feel that I have to defend us and say that, don't we have to show 1,700 people, Palestinians, killed, 75 percent of them civilians? Don't we need to report on that?</s>DERSHOWITZ: Well, what we you have to show is the empty areas in Gaza. Gaza is not the densest part of the world. It has many empty areas. Hamas could easily pick those areas from which to fire their rockets, build their tunnels. If they did that, there would be no civilian casualties. Israel would attack the military. The reason so many Israeli soldiers have been killed and so many Palestinians civilians have been killed is that's the goal of Hamas, to get Israel to kill as many Palestinians as possible so that the media will cover it.</s>CAMEROTA: So, in your mind, until they change that charter that you just read from, there can be no legitimizing Hamas?</s>DERSHOWITZ: It's more than the charter. Until they change their strategy and until they stop engaging in the double war crime of targeting Israeli civilians from behind Palestinian civilians, they have to be treated as a terrorist organization. Their tunnels have to be stopped. Their rockets have to be stopped. Negotiation? Yes. Recognition? They have to earn it.</s>CAMEROTA: OK. We're going to debate this. If you will stick around, Alan Dershowitz, when we come back, we will bring in man who disagrees with Professor Dershowitz when it comes to Israel and Hamas. Reza Aslan says Hamas may be winning the public relations war, and maybe it is time to recognize them. He is going to join us next.