Interview With Senators Chambliss, Reed
CANDY CROWLEY, HOST: A new commander will soon head to Afghanistan as critics of this nine-year war say it's time for a new strategy, too. But that's a no-go at the White House. President Obama last December.</s>PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: We will pursue a military strategy that will break the Taliban's momentum and increase Afghanistan's capacity over the next 18 months.</s>CROWLEY (voice-over): President Obama this week.</s>OBAMA: So make no mistake, we have a clear goal. we are going to break the Taliban's momentum. We are going to build Afghan capacity.</s>CROWLEY: More than two thirds of the additional troops the president ordered into Afghanistan in December are there now, but the Taliban's momentum is not broken and the price is high. In December, 13 Americans were killed in Afghanistan. So far this month, 46 are dead. A toll that may be moving this country. In December, 52 percent of Americans said the war was worth the fight. This month, only 44 percent say the war is worth it.</s>OBAMA: We say to the American people, this is a change in personnel, but this is not a change in policy.</s>CROWLEY: The question is, why not? And many of those asking are Democrats.</s>CROWLEY (voice-over): Today as Congress moves quickly to confirm General David Petraeus as the president's new man in Afghanistan...</s>GEN. DAVID PETRAEUS, CENTCOM COMMANDER, FUTURE ISAF COMMANDER: Defining winning as making progress, then I think we are winning.</s>CROWLEY: We are assessing the state of war with two members of the Senate Armed Services Committee, Jack Reed, and Saxby Chambliss. Then, the political STATE OF THE UNION, with the two men heading up the battle for control of the Senate, Democrat Robert Menendez, and Republican John Cornyn. I am Candy Crowley, and this is STATE OF THE UNION.</s>CROWLEY: Congressional critics of the president's policy in Afghanistan include some supporters and implacable opponents. Many are very senior and well-versed in foreign policy. The doubts are strong and bipartisan.</s>REP. JAMES MCGOVERN (D), MASSACHUSETTS: I don't think the administration knows how this war comes to an end. And I don't think there is a clearly defined mission. I don't think anyone can define what winning is.</s>SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: This is a chance to start over. I would urge the president to look at this as a chance to put new people on the ground without old baggage. And if we don't change quickly, we are going to lose a war we cannot afford to lose.</s>CROWLEY: Joining me now, two members of the committee that will be holding confirmation hearings for General Petraeus this week, Republican Senator Saxby Chambliss of Georgia, and Democratic Senator Jack Reed of Rhode Island. Thank you, gentlemen, both. I want to start with some of the questions posed in the opening. Senator Chambliss, first to you, one of the things that caught me in the now very famous Rolling Stone article was a quote it included from Major General Bill Mayville. He is the deputy chief of staff of operations. And he had this to say about Afghanistan: "it's not going to look like a win, smell like a win, or taste like a win. This is going to end in an argument," talking about the U.S. effort in Afghanistan. When does the U.S. look at this and say, there is no -- this seems to me to be the prelude to, there is no way to win this in any satisfactory way, when is it time to say, we have done what we can, we're leaving?</s>CHAMBLISS: Well, Candy, this is not a conventional war. There are different geographical areas that we are fighting the war in. And there are political issues that are far and away the most difficult that we've encountered probably in any conflict we have ever been in. And if we win militarily -- and I think the opportunity is there to do that, I think General McChrystal was moving us in that direction and Petraeus will. But then on the other side, and what I think is probably a more significant and more difficult issue is that you have the most corrupt government that we have ever dealt with from a conflict standpoint. And until you provide some stability and some confidence in the Afghan people about the way forward from a governing standpoint, then I think that statement probably has some truth to it, that we could win militarily, and still have a very ugly victory.</s>CROWLEY: And still lose. And, Senator Reed, isn't that the problem, is that we -- the military doesn't seem to be the problem. We can send them in, they can do their job. The fact of the matter is that the Karzai government in Afghanistan does not seem to be living up to its half of the bargain. And I was struck this morning by an article which talked about Hamid Karzai discussing with the Taliban and with Pakistan about power-sharing in Afghanistan against the very people who, in Afghanistan, were U.S. allies to begin with. This is so convoluted at this point, it does not seem that there is a way out.</s>REED: Well, the most challenging aspect of this whole strategy is the civilian diplomatic aspects. As you point out, the military aspects are pretty clear-cut. We're going in and we're already making success in terms of disrupting the Taliban very effectively. There will be more actions in the south. But the real key is the diplomatic and political capacity of the Afghanis.</s>CROWLEY: And is that something the military ought to be doing? I mean...</s>REED: It's something that we all have to do. There is a role, but there is a significant role for our American advisers, for Ambassador Eikenberry, for others there. There is also a role for AID. There is a role to build capacity in the Afghani government, not just military capacity, but governmental capacity, delivering services...</s>CROWLEY: But they're not -- they're not doing that. Let me turn to Senator Chambliss. I mean, certainly in Marjah, which I want to talk about later, the Afghan government's ability to get services to people has been fairly weak, if not nonexistent. And what do you think about our diplomatic effort? One of the things that Republicans are beginning to say now is, it's also time for a change in the civilian leadership here. They talk about Ambassador Eikenberry. They talk about Ambassador Holbrooke, saying that the civilian half of this equation has not done well and it's time to clear house.</s>CHAMBLISS: Well, I think that ought to be looked at. Right now, General Petraeus comes in with his team of military leaders. They have got to work hand-in-hand with the civilian side. So I think it's an opportunity for the president to take a look at it. Ambassador Holbrooke has a very strong record that can be looked back on, but the fact is, I don't think he even talks to Karzai now. Should somebody who is in a strong leadership position have an ongoing dialogue with the president of the country? I would say yes. And apparently that's not the case right now.</s>CROWLEY: Senator Reed, what do you...</s>CHAMBLISS: So I do think...</s>CROWLEY: Go ahead.</s>CHAMBLISS: I do think there is the opportunity for the president to look at both the military side and the civilian side because they have to work hand-in-hand if we are ever going to come to some stable government in Afghanistan.</s>CROWLEY: And, Ambassador Eikenberry is on record as not thinking Karzai is up to it. So it's a little hard for them to have a relationship. Is it time for him to go? Is it time for anyone to go? Do you have faith in this team?</s>REED: Well, first of all, General Petraeus will get on the ground. And he has been very effective in pulling together in Iraq not only the American effort but also the effort of the host country. And I think he will be equally successful in Afghanistan. I think everyone recognizes, both the civilian side and military side, that there has to be a unified effort, there has to be a concentration on assisting the Afghanis. But ultimately this is going to be the Afghanis' effort. People ask the question, well, how do we know when we win? Well, we'll know the same way we know in Iraq. That the burden of the battle is being borne by the local forces, not by American and NATO forces. That we will be able to withdraw our forces, not immediately, but we will be able to withdraw them. We will be able to focus on regional counter-terrorism, not country-specific counterinsurgency. That's when we know we will win, just like we had known we were winning in Iraq.</s>CROWLEY: To the specific question, is U.S. Ambassador Eikenberry -- in Afghanistan, in Kabul, is he the best person for this job given a nonexistent relationship with the president of the country that we need to step forward?</s>REED: Well, I have been with Ambassador Eikenberry in the presence of President Karzai, and they have a relationship. They have -- communicate. Sometimes the ambassador has to tell things to President Karzai that he doesn't want to listen to, that he doesn't want to do. A lot of this criticism that Karzai doesn't do this, that Karzai won't take action, there has to be someone there that tells him -- that suggests to him, he is a sovereign, but to suggests to him that his best course of action for his country are certain steps. So we have to have, I think, someone there willing to be firm, not offensive, but firm to the government of Afghanistan.</s>CROWLEY: So you think he's the right man in place?</s>REED: I think they have got a team now in place that can get the job done. I think that they all retain the confidence of the president and now they have to work together.</s>CROWLEY: OK. When we return, inching toward success in Marjah.