Thoughts And Feelings Of Muslim-Americans About Donald Trump`s Plan, Five Days After The Terror Attack In San Bernardino, To Ban Muslims From Entering The U.S.
DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST: Five days after the terror attack in San Bernardino, Donald Trump proposed a plan to ban Muslims from entering the U.S. and since then, we have found ourselves talking about how Muslim Americans in this country might be feeling these days. And, tonight, we have invited an audience of Muslim-Americans to tell us for themselves. I appreciate you all being here. Thank you for taking time out and letting us hear directly from the community themselves how they feel. What is going on -- maybe there are some Trump supporters even amongst us. Maybe there are people that have very -- I do not know -- serious feelings about what is going on. But, it is time we talk about it. I am tired of people in this country just hunkering down into their camps. We are Americans first. Let us talk about it. Watch this.</s>DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States.</s>TRUMP: I have many friends that are Muslims. And, I will tell you, they are so happy that I did this, because they know they have a problem.</s>TRUMP: We have to stop the Muslims until we find out what is going on. Does that make sense, by the way?</s>TRUMP: I always say, they are not coming at us -- they want to kill us.</s>TRUMP: We cannot worry about being politically correct.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE INTERVIEWER: Do you personally think that Muslims pose a danger to this country?</s>TRUMP: I love the Muslims. I think they are great people.</s>PINSKY: Joining us, Vanessa Barnett, HipHollywood.com; Alex Swoyer, reporter with BreitBart.com; Maz Jobrani, comedian, author of "I`m not a terrorist, but I played one on T.V."; Sara Azari, Criminal Defense Attorney and non-practicing Muslim, herself and Marwa Abdelghani, Youth Leader Muslim Public Affairs Council. All right, Maz, Trump`s friends say they are happy he has gone on the record saying this that he wants a pause in immigration. Are you and your friends is happy as his friends are?</s>MAZ JOBRANI, COMEDIAN AND AUTHOR: No. I do not know who his friends are. I think he is making these friends up. I mean because he said, "My Muslim friends like this." They do not like this. You know, Trump is spewing a lot of hate speech. And, the problem is there is a lot of unstable people, who are looking for a leader to give them an excuse to do some violent acts. And, there is the leader of ISIS, who does it for the terrorists. And, we have got Trump, who is doing it for Americans. He is giving them an excuse to go out and carry out acts of violence against Muslims.</s>PINSKY: Alex, you are grimacing. You are smiling. They are applauding you. They are applauding you.</s>ALEX SWOYER, POLITICAL REPORTER/ATTORNEY: Well, I definitely do not think it is fair to equate Donald Trump to the leader of</s>ISIS. JOBRANI: I think it is totally fair.</s>SWOYER: I think there is definitely a difference right there, you know, in terms of, he might say something provocative, but we actually have the leader of ISIS burning people alive, beheading people. So, I do not think that is a fair comparison.</s>VANESSA BARNETT, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: I do not think it is fair --</s>PINSKY: Vanessa, you settle the score.</s>BARNETT: I do not think it is fair to keep saying that he is just being provocative. No. These are fear-mongering bigotry kind of words that he is using. He wants to round up a group of people and ban them and push them away. And, what he is doing is he is labeling Muslims as terrorists. You cannot say that all Muslims are terrorists. You cannot point your finger. And, then you have elites who follow him that are saying, "Oh, you know what? He is right! Let us ban all Muslims. Let us treat people as if they are not Americans. As if they are not humans. And, let us just put a label on them and kick them out."</s>PINSKY: Sara, what do you say?</s>BARNETT: That is not fair. That is not provocative.</s>SARA AZARI, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY AND NON-PRACTICING MUSLIM: Yes. I mean, as a result of his dumb rhetoric, basically what has happened is that terrorism is equated to Islam, and Muslims are terrorists.</s>PINSKY: Well, are terrorists from some other organization?</s>AZARI: Well, you know --</s>PINSKY: That is where people get into trouble. That is where they get weirded out.</s>AZARI: Right, but this Muslim-free zone, which by the way, I thought the stage was a Muslim-free zone until I saw Maz with it. You know, the Muslim-free zone -- I mean, what is that? I mean, he has created these crazy propositions about Muslim people and as a result incited horrible hate crimes across the nation. Kids are afraid to go to school because they are bullied. They are asking their parents -- these are Muslim kids, "Can I wear a black and white scarf, so I look like a nun rather than a Muslim kid." I mean, it is so damaging and it is so un-American. It goes right to, you know -- the reason I am a proud American is because of the freedom that this country offers. And, he has completely destroyed it.</s>PINSKY: We got to hear from this from our audience. Yes. Yes, ma`am.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hi. I actually wanted to address Donald Trump and the media coverage surrounding him.</s>PINSKY: Uh-huh.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: We need to know what Donald Trump is saying because people are voting for him. You know, they need to know what he stands for.</s>PINSKY: Right.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: But it affects how people think about the minorities that he is addressing and how do you think we should go about addressing that. Because he needs to be covered, but maybe there is a wrong way to cover him.</s>PINSKY: Well, we sort of just -- the videos speak for themselves. And, now, we are trying on dig in a little deeper, hopefully. Maz?</s>JOBRANI: Well, you know, unfortunately, like Alex was saying, obviously, Donald Trump is not doing what the leader of ISIS is doing physically. But, the problem becomes what you were just saying is, that he -- when he speaks -- he is obviously a smart person.</s>PINSKY: Yes.</s>JOBRANI: He is a smart human being. I am not as worried about Donald Trump. If I were sitting at dinner with Donald Trump and he says some of the stuff that he would say, I would be like, "OK, I think you are a little drunk, but that is all right." You know, "It is all right. Keep talking. Whatever. You and I, dinner, cool." But, once he goes in front of an audience and says that, and some of his followers -- Recently, there was that video of this guy that was protesting in one of his rallies and you hear off camera, somebody -- there was a black guy they were dragging off. Somebody goes, "Light him up." And, I am like, "Wait a minute. His follower wanted to lynch a black dude. That is scary. So, when you are doing that in front of a crowd and you are going, Muslim this, Muslim that, Muslim that, his crowd is not there sitting going like, "You know what? Probably 99 percent of Muslims are good people, even more than that. 99.9999 percent of Muslims are good people. And, there is a small percentage that are bad." These crowds are not making that distinction.</s>BARNETT: Right.</s>JOBRANI: And , that is the problem. Then they are going out and doing crazy stuff like, you know.</s>PINSKY: Yes, ma`am.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hello. I am actually a Media Studies Professor from Cal State San Bernardino.</s>PINSKY: OK.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: And, I do a lot of analysis of representation of Muslims and Arabs in mainstream media.</s>PINSKY: Great.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: And, I think I have two points to make here. The first one, and I will try to be very short, is that Donald Trump has been getting a lot of free space in the media. More than he should actually be getting. And, I thought I would never, ever see the day when I am actually excited to see the Kardashians all over the T.V. last night, because of the amount of media attention he is getting for a very negative hateful rhetoric. And, the second point is very related, which is the representations of Muslims and especially women, of course, in the media. We are almost framed -- Thank you for having us. But, we are always framed or shown or represented when there is a crisis. And, it is one of either two narratives. It is either the violence, terrorist narrative or the victim narrative. There is nothing in between. Like in regular days to show Muslims as they are, professors, scientists, you know doing very positive things as American citizens.</s>PINSKY: Well, right. I mean that was -- thank you for saying that. I mean that was my purpose in bringing everybody here to sort of push the curtain back and realize we are all just people here, trying to understand this. But, let me sort of frame it this way. I would imagine -- let us put it this way. I am kind of afraid of these ISIS guys. Anybody else afraid? Hands. Show of hands? OK. Do you think you are more afraid than I am? Hands up, if you are more afraid. Do you think you are more likely to be an object of their violence than the average white dude? OK. So, I think you are right. I think the Muslim community is probably more afraid of ISIS than the average dude like me, the average privileged white boy. How about the average African-American female? You are pretty scared of those guys, right?</s>BARNETT: Yes, I think.</s>PINSKY: Yes. Do you think this audience would be more frighten?</s>BARNETT: Absolutely.</s>PINSKY: OK.</s>BARNETT: And, I am sure they are scared of the perception of it now too.</s>PINSKY: Well -- so, you have two layers, right? You are afraid of them and afraid of other people reacting and you get being painted with the brush of ISIS, right? So, OK. So, that is what I thought. That is what I figured is the issue. My concern is in the solution. There is a lot of focus on Trump to get him to sort of cool his rhetoric. Oh, you have -- Let us get it from the audience. Yes. You jumped up. All right, we have no way to do it from there, unfortunately. We have just a few seconds here. I will let you make a comment and then we will go right to break. Go ahead.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: One of the biggest solutions is to stop equating ISIS with Islam.</s>PINSKY: OK. But --</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: It is not the same.</s>PINSKY: It is not the same. And, I think that, that is sort of the problem -- Like you have a P.R. problem.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Well, you are saying terrorism, Islam. I mean a few weeks before --</s>PINSKY: Well, like Trump said, you cannot take terrorism sweet. And, it make sense.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: But when you say -- he is saying San Bernardino and ISIS, but he never says a few weeks before the Planned Parenthood, that central got bombed as well or attacked.</s>PINSKY: Ye, but listen. Domestic -- Domestic terrorism --</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: But, it is not put in the same thing. And, it is not the same narrative.</s>PINSKY: Domestic terrorism is a big problem. But, there is not an organization of domestic terrorists saying we are coming to get you. And, so that narrative --</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: KKK is Christian. Does anyone say Christian or Catholic?</s>PINSKY: Yes.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: It is always -- No, they do not.</s>PINSKY: And -- They did. And, the Christians and the Catholics are taking care of those guys and do not want them -- Like "We are going to crush them wherever we find them." Can we get a --</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: We are trying to get a platform where we are going to be listened to.</s>PINSKY: That is what I want. That is what I want.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Thank you for having us.</s>PINSKY: OK.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: So, we do not have much of a platform.</s>PINSKY: Well, that is what I want to figure out, why not? That is what I like to know.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Because no one gives us the opportunity to speak.</s>PINSKY: Hold on. I think I know what the next block is about, is how we can figure it out what that is. And, do you know what I am getting at, Maz?</s>JOBRANI: Yes, absolutely.</s>PINSKY: Yes.</s>JOBRANI: Absolutely.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Absolutel.</s>PINSKY: Am I making sense, Alex?</s>SWOYER: Yes, absolutely.</s>PINSKY: Am I building an argument that makes sense?</s>SWOYER: Yes. I think we all agree.</s>PINSKY: Go ahead.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: If you want to know, ask a Muslim. Like in my employers, they all have come up to me and they asked me. You are going to people who are like terrorists or they are doing acts that do not represent me or my children or anyone else.</s>PINSKY: Absolutely.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: But, you are all giving us the opportunity to be attacked in our place of work, at school. My kids are afraid. I have to be asked to be like escorted to the parking lot. That is not fair.</s>PINSKY: No. That is no good.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I am born here.</s>PINSKY: That is no good.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: And, go back to my country? This is my country.</s>PINSKY: Right. Stay. Stay. Please stay right there. So, you are making a point -- I am going to come right to you. You making the same point I am making. We are all Americans first, right?</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Exactly.</s>PINSKY: All of us. Yes. We are Americans first. Maybe, somebody feel different and I would like to hear from them. But as Americans, we need to solve this all together. As Americans, we need to solve this thing, not let this --</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: We need to have Americans want to work with us.</s>PINSKY: I believe they -- in my heart I trust --</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: It is true, but you have like someone said, there is a bunch of people watching T.V. and they get all their knowledge from T.V., Fox News and so forth. They do not want to take the time out to ask someone who knows --</s>PINSKY: All right. Well --</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: -- or to actually Google or find out about Islam.</s>PINSKY: We are going to do that. That is exactly what I want to do tonight. So, I want to ask someone who knows -- I want to ask a whole bunch of people who know it because I do not and I do not. So, here is what we are going to do, we will do a little more Trump. And, he, of course, has asked for there to be surveillance of Mosques in America. I want to hear how people feel about that. But, I want to build a solution. We are back after this.</s>TRUMP: Are you ready for this, folks? Are you ready? Oh, they are going to make such a big deal.</s>TRUMP: I want surveillance of certain Mosques. OK?</s>TRUMP: In the Mosques, a lot of things are happening in there, folks.</s>TRUMP: I know Muslim people. They are phenomenal people, but there is a problem in there.</s>TRUMP: 51 percent is the Muslims living in this country want to be governed according to Sharia. You know what Sharia is?</s>TRUMP: He said something so politically incorrect, that is why we are going to hell because he is so politically incorrect.</s>PINSKY: Welcome back. We are here with a Muslim-American audience talking about Donald Trump and his plan to ban Muslims from entering the United States. Back with my panel, Vanessa, Alex, Maz, Sara, and Marwa. And, Alex, a couple things. You were saying that the reason Trump gets an extra time because he is excessful for you, guys.</s>SWOYER: Right. And, I was going to say in terms of the person who was speaking about media, I cover all of the GOP candidates and the debates and he always comes in. He will sometimes come to the spin room twice. And, it is because he is a master at handling media. And, there are so many politicians that do not even appear. So, that can be an answer to one of the questions about why people feel feel like he does get more air time. At the same point, he is the GOP front-runner. And, that does mean something. That means more people want to ask him to come and be a part of the morning shows and get his opinion, because he is the front-runner. And, the majority, I think it is almost 40 percent now in the latest poll, do support him.</s>BARNETT: As a journalist, I have interviewed a lot of people that I have chosen not to put on air, not to put on the website that I worked for, because I feel as a journalist I have a responsibility not to promote hate, not to promote bigotry and to promote anything that is not American. I mean that is not an excuse.</s>JOBRANI: And, as a comedian, I got to tell you, it is hard to keep up with him.</s>PINSKY: It is gold.</s>JOBRANI: Because he keeps saying --</s>PINSKY: Gold for you, Maz.</s>JOBRANI: Gold, but it is more outrageous stuff all the time.</s>PINSKY: Yes.</s>SWOYER: But, I think also as a journalist, you cannot sensor -- you have to report the truth. So, I would not just choose to report about a certain candidate, especially when he is the front-runner. Like I said, there is a large audience that does identify with him. A nd, he had a lot of backlash when he brought up the issue of illegal immigration and the way he decided to say that. The deepest issue was you know, we need to secure the southern border and that ended up increasing his percentage in the polls. And, actually, he has gone up 6 points since he made his comments about immigration, period from what happened in Paris and San Bernardino.</s>BARNETT: Playing to the cheap seats is not OK. It is not, "Oh, yeah. You got more points." You are playing to people`s fears and you are playing to the cheap seats. And, that is not -- I would not applaud that. I would not applaud that.</s>PINSKY: Well, again, I have a problem when we -- Vanessa, I am going to take issue with that, because he is somehow the average American is responding to his rhetoric and to call them the cheap seats as you do, I think that is insulting.</s>BARNETT: I do not think they are necessarily cheap seats, but I would say the way he is talking to them, he is almost playing on the fact that they may not know a lot --</s>PINSKY: OK.</s>BARNETT: -- and that they may not understand what is happening.</s>PINSKY: All right. I think it is a scapegoat. Scapegoating is a very primitive way to talk to an audience. Yes, sir.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes. I have two points. One of them is like, it does not surprise me, what he said. What surprised me is how many people agree with him against the Muslim community. The second point --</s>PINSKY: But, this is what I am struggling with. He is not saying -- it feels like it is against the Muslim community, but he is talking about people immigrating and trying to fair it out extremist from amongst Muslims.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I am with him.</s>PINSKY: That is what I would think.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Let us secure our borders, but not against Muslims, against all acts of terrorism.</s>PINSKY: Yes. So, how do we do that?</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: And, the second point --</s>PINSKY: How do we do that, though?</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes.</s>PINSKY: It is hard.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: It is hard. Everybody try to do it before him and they said about it, but they did not nothing.</s>PINSKY: All right.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: So, this is a point for election. Now, the second part; we, Muslim community, we are part of the solution in this country. We cannot be marginalized.</s>PINSKY: No.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: We have to be recognized. We are professionals. We are doctors and lawyers who teach your children.</s>PINSKY: Absolutely.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: We are part of the community. We cannot be marginalized.</s>PINSKY: Who is marginalizing you? Is somebody actually actively -- I mean you walk about in your professional life, is somebody actually --</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: No. Personally, no.</s>PINSKY: OK.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: But, the rhetoric on TV and the media - -</s>PINSKY: Yes. It makes you feel insecure.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Exactly.</s>PINSKY: OK.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: And, I have to defend myself against those people who are criminals. They are not Muslims.</s>PINSKY: They are extremists. Right.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes.</s>PINSKY: As we already established, you feel more in the cross hairs of those guys. So, you are in the cross hairs of those guys and in the cross hairs of people who are bigots.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Exactly.</s>PINSKY: OK. All right. Maz, you want to say something?</s>JOBRANI: Yes. I was going to say that first of all, there are people that discriminate -- like after September 11th -- What is that job website? Is it Monster.com or what is it?</s>PINSKY: Yes.</s>JOBRANI: Right?</s>PINSKY: Yes.</s>JOBRANI: They actually were telling a lot of Iranian Americans, that given your names, where you cannot submit resume -- it will be hard for to you get hired with your names. They wanted people to change their names.</s>PINSKY: Sara, did you have any of those issues back then?</s>AZARI: I am sorry. Your point?</s>PINSKY: Your name sounds, you know --</s>AZARI: Yes. Absolutely. When I -- I was 7 years old when we left Iran. And, I had to lie about my nationality, because it was during the hostage crisis, and because I was being bullied. And, now with the stigma that is attached to being Muslim -- I mean, I am a non-practicing Muslim. But, this is about all Muslims.</s>PINSKY: Did you get stigmatized.</s>AZARI: You know, I do not specifically get stigmatized. I identify as an American.</s>PINSKY: Yes.</s>AZARI: But --</s>JOBRANI: I bet if you ask the ladies in the audience with their job, I am sure they get stigmatized. They get marginalized.</s>AZARI: Absolutely.</s>PINSKY: I would be interested. Do you get more stigmatized since Donald Trump started rhetoric?</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I would say that there has been a stigma for the past 15 years.</s>PINSKY: OK. OK. Is that 9/11 that did that?</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I would say -- yes. Definitely after 9/11.</s>PINSKY: I am sorry, I keep interrupting you. But, were you the one telling me --</s>SWOYER: Yes. I was --</s>PINSKY: Because that is measurably true.</s>SWOYER: Yes. I was going to say that there has been news report that there has been an increase in hate crimes against Muslims since Donald Trump made his comments. But, I actually saw an FBI report that this year, it has increased and that was reported on November 28th, 27 days before he even came out with his statement.</s>PINSKY: But, the uptake is really since 9/11. Right? That is the real uptake.</s>JOBRANI: But, he is not -- but listen, he is not helping at all. I could tell you -- Let me tell you something. I came to America the same time that she did. I came in late -- right around the hostage crisis.</s>PINSKY: Yes.</s>JOBRANI: I have been experiencing this for 30 some odd years.</s>PINSKY: What? Experiencing what?</s>JOBRANI: Just the whole thing -- I grew up in Marin County, which is supposed to be a liberal place. And, I walk into a restaurant one night with my friends. We are speaking Farsi. And, this one big dude gets up, he goes this is America, speak American and he wanted to fight us. He wanted to fight us, because we were speaking Farsi.</s>PINSKY: And, Vanessa, you thought only the black folks had that problem --</s>BARNETT: No. I did not think that. I did not think that. I think Trump --</s>PINSKY: At the corner on -- it is crazy, right?</s>BARNETT: Negative thing about every ethnic group. He labels us the blacks, the Muslims.</s>PINSKY: But, how crazy are we -- I doubt this is uniquely American. I think humans have a screw loose.</s>JOBRANI: But, then that is why you cannot have a leader like Trump spouting the hate.</s>PINSKY: Go ahead.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: People are afraid. And, I would I say even just myself and people in the Muslim community are afraid. Just last week I was at a Chinese restaurant and someone looked at me. Just took one look at me and said, "Oh, do not blow us up." And, I turned around, and I used that as an opportunity to try to educate him. But, unfortunately, people are afraid.</s>PINSKY: Did he respond? Did he respond?</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: He, basically, turned around and said, "Oh, well, it is the media. It is the media. The media keeps telling us that."</s>PINSKY: OK. Well, good. You turned one around. Well done. I mean that is what we have to do. One by one. But, go ahead. Please finish your thought.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Well, essentially, it is not a good time for Muslims because Muslims are afraid. They are afraid of --</s>PINSKY: I want to come -- I think there is a huge opportunity for Muslims, is not there? -- help us lead us out of this. Is not it?</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: A lot of Muslims are speaking out.</s>PINSKY: But, it is like you need a unified like somebody -- I guess there is there somebody, a PR that can --</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: We have a lot of organizations like - -</s>PINSKY: There needs to be -- you need your own Trump. You need your own guy that --</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: That fear mongers?</s>PINSKY: No. That is clear and loud and understood and accepted and get cuts through, and a third of everybody understands it and hears it. Do not you think? But, no one is listening.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Muslims have not -- for example, what I hear over and over again on the media, why are not Muslims condemning acts of terrorism? "Oh, this terrorist attack happened."</s>PINSKY: Yes. Why not?</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: "Oh, this terrorist attack happened." Why are not they condemning?</s>PINSKY: Why?</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Why are not they condemning, they are. They have been doing nothing but condemning it for the past 15 years.</s>PINSKY: And, so, let me -- let me --</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I personally have condemned it --</s>PINSKY: I have no doubt.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: -- in many conversations that I have had with people.</s>PINSKY: But, why do people have that perception? We have to figure that out --</s>SWOYER: The CAIR is actually paying for the lawyers right now for the San Bernardino family.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: It is one way or the other. If you affirms what they already believe. If they find out something new about someone, they may believe that, that person to be the enemy, then they do not want to hear it.</s>PINSKY: Right.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: They do not want to hear it if it goes against what they think.</s>PINSKY: What do you want to do, Bert? We are going to switch the mics here. Hang on. This is -- we are live television and things are happening right under our feet here. So, I got to go break. You give your one thought, because you are the media expert. You are a professor of media studies.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: There is so much to say, but number one is access. We have charismatic outspoken leaders in the Muslim community who have been speaking for -- you know, for tens of years.</s>PINSKY: But it is like -- stay right there.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: OK.</s>PINSKY: : I have to take a break. But, it seems to me like whenever people have a position that is clear and not being received, you call that a PR problem. So, something is not right.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Because we do not have access to media.</s>PINSKY: Here we are.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: This is exactly what I talked about. This is exactly what I said.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: We thank you for it.</s>PINSKY: All right. Well, here is the deal --</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: We thank you for it --</s>PINSKY: We will do more. We will do more.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: -- but it is not enough.</s>PINSKY: I agree with you on that.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: It is always with a crisis. It comes with a crisis. We do not access --</s>PINSKY: Well, that is the way media is.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: We do not have access.</s>PINSKY: You are a professor of that, you know how that works. All right. So, let me -- all right, here we go. So, I just want to keep this conversation going. We will just leave it at that. We got a lot more to say. We got a lot more to hear from this audience and my panel. We will be right back.</s>TRUMP: We have to really be vigilant with respect to the Muslim population.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE TRUMP SUPPORTER: I do not want them here. Who knows what they are going to bring into this country? Bombs? Isis or what? They need to go.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: It is the first time that Muslims are fearing for their life, for their children.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: So, basically, like you are Muslim. They are like, "Oh, OK. So, they are terrorists."</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: He is just saying, no Muslim should be allowed to enter the country right now. Do you agree? Yes or no? It is that simple.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Yes.</s>PINSKY: What it is like to be Muslim American when so many controversial and perhaps even offensive thing are being said about Islam, and about immigration and about your community. We have Muslim American studio audience today who is really letting us know, hearing from them. Back with Vanessa, Alex, Maz, and Sara. Now, in the audience, I have 21-year-old Marwa Abdelghani. She is a youth leader at the Muslim Public Affairs Council. And, I wanted to get your perception on -- Let us just start with Mr. Trump`s comments and how that has changed what you are have to deal with.</s>MARWA ABDELGHANI, YOUTH LEADER AT THE MUSLIM PUBLIC AFFAIRS COUNCIL: Yes, you know, I think that we are all aware of how ridiculous his comments are. But, we are forgetting the fact that young Muslim Americans like myself are sandwiched between extremist politicians` comments, as well as the extremist ideologies overseas. And, so, we have to go through this identity crisis of navigating our life in America.</s>PINSKY: Do you feel like -- do you feel like you have an either/or sort of argument before you? Either I have to be all the way Muslim I got to have an extreme opinion or I am something else?</s>ABDELGHANI: No.</s>PINSKY: No.</s>ABDELGHANI: Definitely not. Young Muslim-Americans go through the exact same experiences as any other young American person growing up here. We go through the same experiences in high school and in college and we are all aspiring journalists, aspiring doctors and lawyers and we are a part of American society.</s>PINSKY: You know, it just -- it just occurs to me seeing Marwa, reminds me that all my Muslim friends are extremely community minded, right? A lot of time and energy giving back and building. And, I am sure that is everyone`s experience, right? And, the average American does not know that.</s>ABDELGHANI: Yes. It is a part of our faith to be engaged in our community. And, to be a part of the change that is going to come about, all of our experiences.</s>PINSKY: Yes, ma`am.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: What we need to remember today is that what we persist on the longest becomes the strongest. And, this is what is happening. Dr. King said, "I stand with love because hate is too much of a burden to bear." And, I tell Mr. Trump, I mean he must be a very smart businessman, but easy leaving his legacy or leaving his legacy? It is time that we came together and really build America with strong kids. Because we cannot mend broken men, but we can build strong kids. So, I stand here as a Muslim --</s>PINSKY: Go ahead.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I have done so much community work in 2007, my 7-year-old son was told he was a terrorist.</s>PINSKY: What?</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes.</s>PINSKY: 7-year-old?</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: 7-year-old son in school. I picked him up. He was sobbing. And, that I realized I did not need a Ph.D., because I am a lawyer and I am a professional speaker. I realized I did not need a Ph.D. to teach my son to love one another. And, that is my message, we all need to rally around, to remember, why are we here?</s>PINSKY: Does your -- one of the things that came out of a study in 2011, you are probably the perfect person to answer this, is that almost half of American Muslims believe that their religious leaders, here is the study up on the full screen here -- 48 percent. Their religious leaders were not speaking out strongly enough. Is that part of the problem or is that just a misperception?</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: In my personal understanding, I think we have also leaders who are very conversant in the context -- in the text but not the context. And, we need that change and that is happening. We have some Islamic Universities who are training Imams.</s>PINSKY: Let me add this. In the rhetoric that Trump was putting out, he said that there were a lot -- I forgot what the number he said, the thing about the Sharia thing. He did say, half of the --</s>JOBRANI: 51 percent.</s>PINSKY: 51 percent -- That scares people to death. Is that just wrong?</s>AUDIENCE STUDIO MEMBERS: Yes.</s>PINSKY: Yes.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes. Absolutely.</s>PINSKY: Yes. So, why cannot somebody stand up and go, "That is wrong. That is crazy." Do you know anybody that believes Sharia Law, yourself?</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I do not know.</s>PINSKY: Yes. Maz, do you know anybody?</s>JOBRANI: He spurts out stuff all the time without facts behind it. I mean the whole thing of him saying --</s>PINSKY: Well, but you should be responding to that, right?</s>JOBRANI: Yes. But, listen, there is a couple things. First of all, the Muslim community does not have an NAACP or an Al Sharpton. They could use one, absolutely --</s>PINSKY: Maz, appoint somebody.</s>JOBRANI: Yes, number one. Number two, though, the perception of Muslims in American. I am Middle Eastern. I was born in Iran. I grew up here. I am not that religious, but I do know that being an actor and a comedian, you do not see us represented in a positive light. Nine out of ten auditions I was getting were for terrorist parts, and that is when I stop. I stopped taking the auditions.</s>PINSKY: And, Black-Americans are dealing with this longer other than any other population, I would say. Would not you --</s>BARNETT: Absolutely.</s>PINSKY: Is there a way you can help them lead out of this?</s>BARNETT: I would hate to -- presumptively, I have to say that we have the answer, because I think we are still fighting our same fight, a similar fight. But, I think that they have a voice and they have been trying to use that voice, but I do not think in the media, they are getting any cover as they were saying.</s>PINSKY: All right.</s>BARNETT: So, you have these organizations. We have these people speaking out, but the media is not being balanced and fair and telling both sides of the story.</s>PINSKY: OK. Yes, ma`am.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: You were asking, where are our leaders?</s>PINSKY: Yes.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: In fact --</s>PINSKY: Well, I said religious leaders with that study, the religious leaders.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes.</s>PINSKY: I also would like you to have a P.R. representative that everyone responded to, you know, in a way that they can understand, but go ahead.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Well, I will give you a little bit of both. I work for Muslims for Progressive Values. And, our president and founder, Ani Zonneveld, she is an Imam. And, she is actually in Geneva right now, advising Somalia on their human rights abuses in the name of Sharia Law. And, so, we do have leaders, who are on the ground on the policy level and on the grassroots level trying to make change. But, I also want to say that, why is it the Muslim`s responsibility to stand against a cult of death?</s>PINSKY: Well -- yes, that is a great --</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Is it Christians` responsibility when the KKK burned eight black churches?</s>PINSKY: Yes. I believe it is. Absolutely, 100 percent.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: But, do we ask the pope to make a statement?</s>PINSKY: Well, interesting.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: And, do we ask all the religious community to make a statement?</s>PINSKY: Interesting.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Obviously, we are all against it. It is obvious. It should not be something that we need to question us on.</s>PINSKY: Well, that is an interesting point. Yes, I will percolate on that for a few minutes. Go ahead, Maz.</s>JOBRANI: And, another thing, that have exactly what you are saying. Listen, Muslims in America are minority. There is a very small number of Muslims in America. So, even if Muslims got up and started screaming, "We condemn it. We condemn it." They are not getting the coverage. Whereas, what happened to sympathy rather than fear? Why do not Christians join with Muslims, join with Jews and let us condemn them together and call it an act of criminality?</s>PINSKY: Yes, sir.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: To get back real quick to Mr. Trump and what he said about his question, I have two points to make with this. Number one, if -- is he going to ban-- is he going to stop his money coming in from the investments he has made in the Middle East, in Dubai and in Iran.</s>PINSKY: We have to go to break. Next up, talking about these acts of aggression against people of Muslim faith. A woman throws coffee in the face of two Muslim strangers. She tells us why she did it. I got to hear that, after this.</s>PINSKY: We are spending the hour here with our Muslim American peers and audience about misunderstanding over Islam and hate in the country and trying to do something about it. Two Muslim men praying in Northern California Park were confronted by an angry stranger.</s>DENISE SLADER, CONFRONTED TWO MUSLIM MEN IN THE PARK: You are very deceived by Satan. Your mind has been taken over -- brainwashed, and you have nothing but hate. Nothing but hate.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE PARK RANGER: It is not appropriate.</s>SLADER: You are right. For somebody to tape record me, it is inappropriate.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE MUSLIM: This lady was talking about my God. She was saying he is that --</s>SLADER: Get out.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE MUSLIM: Do not touch me. Call the cop. Call the police.</s>PINSKY: And, appropriately, that woman was charged with battery and violations of civil rights. Back with Vanessa, Alex, Maz, Sara, and Marwa. I want to get -- we have a lot of audience who wants to speak with us. So, yes, sir.</s>AZMAT MOHAMMED (PH), UNITED STATES VETERAN, MARINE CORPS.: Yes. I am an American-Muslim. My name is Azmat Mohammed, I am also a United States Veteran, Marine Corps.</s>PINSKY: Thank you for your service.</s>MOHAMMED: And, all I want to say is that Donald Trump is part of a secret society that really run America, just like the movie "1984," where they said, "War is peace and freedom is slavery." It is the same thing. They want to put everybody in a box. And, they want everybody in fear and everybody in control. Just like the movie "1984."</s>PINSKY: Thank you, sir. We will keep hearing from our audience.</s>GIENEN (PH), FEMALE MUSLIM AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hi, I am Gienen. I am Tyru (ph), but I feel like Donald Trump -- yes, we are against him. But, we are also hypocrites as Muslims because we discriminate against each other.</s>PINSKY: In other words, there are so many different types of Muslim Communities.</s>GIENEN: Yes. Ethnicities.</s>PINSKY: You are African-Muslim.</s>GIENEN: Yes, I am African-Muslim.</s>PINSKY: And, you feel discriminated against by?</s>GIENEN: Because right now, as I walked in here, some people did not believe I was Muslim. So, that is discrimination on its own.</s>PINSKY: So, back to my question about there being a sort of unified P.R. message, is it because there is a splintered community, is that part of the problem?</s>GIENEN: Yes. If you look at the audience, it is pretty solid.</s>PINSKY: Which is I love.</s>GIENEN: Yes.</s>PINSKY: Which is wonderful. It needs to be celebrated, but it also need to --</s>GIENEN: But, if we unify ourselves, then everybody will see that we are doing something about it.</s>PINSKY: There you go. Thank you. Are guys, do you believe the way I do, that there is sort of like a -- I keep calling it a P.R. problem. That sounds crass.</s>SWOYER: No, I agree. I get it.</s>BARNETT: I get what you are saying, but what you said at the top of the show is that we are all Americans first.</s>PINSKY: I hope so.</s>BARNETT: And, so, it is all of our duty to combat this.</s>PINSKY: Yes.</s>BARNETT: We cannot just -- Because there is such a small subset of people. Like you said, there is not many Muslim Americans here. So, it is really all of our jobs to ban together.</s>PINSKY: Alex.</s>SWOYER: And, I think one of the only organizations, I think someone cited it in the audience was CAIR. And, they have been in numerous headlines, where they have had links to Hamas and others that has -- it has been declared a terrorist organization by the FBI and the federal court.</s>PINSKY: So, that is --</s>JOBRANI: Yes, but Alex --</s>SWOYER: It actually has.</s>JOBRANI: Yes, but Alex -- Alex, listen. Listen --</s>SWOYER: In 2009, the federal court declared it a terrorist organization. And, just, I think it was Wednesday, BrietBart.com posted a chart from the FBI that they have released showing that its founder was linked to Hamas.</s>PINSKY: But, let me just say, that therein lies the rub here, right?</s>SWOYER: That is what I am saying. So, that is the only way --</s>PINSKY: So, we need a clear and distinct spokesperson that people listen to and believe.</s>SWOYER: Absolutely.</s>PINSKY: Yes, sir.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: So, I got a couple minutes, because the producer is going crazy over here. But, you were just telling us about, you know, how Muslims need to be talking more, so I am going to take the liberty to do that. No, I am just joking. I will not do that. So, there has always been a conservative element in this country that has been playing up to the fear of the other.</s>PINSKY: That is human experience, right?</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes. So, you have that since -- against Japanese-Americans during, you know, the World Wars --</s>PINSKY: Yes.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: And, then you have -- you know, that against Mexican-Americans, and you know, against black folks and by the way, a third of Muslim Americans are African-American. Geinen has a point.</s>PINSKY: To be fair, though. But, would you agree, and I do not mean to interrupt. I am sorry.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes.</s>PINSKY: But, I just want to shape this conversation. We have limited time. A lot of people want to talk.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes.</s>PINSKY: But, is that America has not cornered that issue. It is just we live in a multiethnic, multicultural society, so it shows up in our culture a lot.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: And, it is the responsibility of the media, of our leaders to take a position and to take an approach that is honest. We have, you know, CAIR and MPAC are two organizations that have been working for this and addressing these issues condemning ISIS and the like. Last week, we just had a rally at city hall, which the mayor came out to condemning ISIS. We have had -- San Bernardino Muslims have raised hundreds of thousands of dollars for the victims in San Bernardino. But, you know, these things are not being covered. And, what is being covered is, you know, CAIR is a terrorist organization that is sending money to Hamas and what not.</s>PINSKY: So, what is the solution? We are looking for a solution tonight?</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: It is exactly as what she was saying here.</s>PINSKY: Vanessa.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: She was saying -- you know, our leaders and media heads, and instead of fear mongering and playing up this atmosphere of hate that is taking root.</s>BARNETT: Our president said it. He said the Muslims should be our allies. We should be working with them. Not banning them.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Bush -- President Bush said the same thing.</s>BARNETT: Exactly.</s>PINSKY: Of course. We are not going to solve this without the Muslim community. That is for sure.</s>JOBRANI: Listen. It really is a number thing. If you look at Christians and Muslims -- If you are really religious, you have a lot more in common than not in common. So, Christians need to get with Muslims. Need to get with other religious type and we will fight it.</s>PINSKY: OK. I have to go to break. I am running out of time. I will get to more more audience as soon as we get back. We will be, in fact, right back. Do not go away.</s>PINSKY: We are back with our Muslim American audience. I got my panel here still with me. I want to get to as many of our audience members as possible. Let us go right through it. Yes, ma`am.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I just want to talk about how in public schools, when I tell people that I am a Muslim, they always immediately think, "Oh, she is a terrorist. Oh, she is going to bomb us."</s>PINSKY: Do they say that?</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes. They say that. Even my friends like as a joke, because it is so normal. And, for people to just immediately say that Muslims are terrorists.</s>PINSKY: What do you do with that when someone says that to you?</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I just tell them to be quiet. I usually just ignore them. I mean I am pretty confident, so it does not really affect me at all.</s>PINSKY: We see that. But, is there any place you can go with that? Does it make you want to do anything? I mean you are the next generation. We are looking to you.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I tell them that it is not right. I always try to tell them that it is not OK.</s>PINSKY: Not OK. Well, thank you.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: People will come up to me and say, "Oh, you should be deported." I always tell them like, "I was born in America. Where am I going to be deported to?"</s>PINSKY: That is right. Thank you. Sara, you said you had some discrimination you dealt with as a young girl as well?</s>AZARI: Yes, but that was -- you know, that was not based on being a Muslim even though I am a non-practicing Muslim. That was based on my nationality. Same thing. I mean I think it is so difficult for children to deal with this. And, then what does a parent do when that kid comes home and says what happened to them in school?</s>PINSKY: Yes, I mean did you ever have that?</s>JOBRANI: Absolutely. I mean that was the -- the hypocrisy of it, the ridiculousness of it was that I fled Iran to get away from that government. And, then you come to America and you will be calling, "F-ing Iranian."</s>PINSKY: Right. Well, and you, guys, I mean that is the big complain about holding Muslim immigration, which is the very people that are fleeing what we are trying to fight are the people we are keeping away from the safety. And, I understand why somebody could say that. But, it is what we did during second World War to Jews who ended up dead. Yes, sir.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: So, Dr. Drew, you are talking about solutions in the earlier part of the show. And, I just wanted to mention that what is not going to be a solution is in 2016, we have a presidential candidate who becomes president of the United States, right? Who spews the kind of rhetoric that we have seen in the GOP, this election season. I promise you, as a student of Islamic studies, a Ph.D. student at UCLA, who understands religious symbolisms and understands how they influence people, right? That you will see an increase in Islamic radicalism across the country.</s>PINSKY: What if he did something like this? What if he invited you in to have a conversation with him, to set him straight, to help him get rhetoric right?</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I mean, if he actually has an interesting in knowing about Islam, and I would be very interested. But, the fact, is that most republican candidates, do not -- I will be quite honest. Most Americans cannot tell difference between a Sikh and a Muslim.</s>PINSKY: That is true.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: OK?</s>PINSKY: It is very true.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: If you are trying to say -- if you are trying to say that we are your enemy and you do not even know the differences between Sunni or Shi`a, a Salafi or Sufi, right? And, you do not know where these people are in the world, how the hell are you supposed to tackle us? Right? You see, that is the problem, right?</s>PINSKY: Yes. I see that. That is why we are trying to --</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: And, I think it is a problem that also translates the average public, right? Even the people that are involved in media, right? So, you mentioned the word Sharia, right? But, as someone who studied it, I recognized that you do not know what it means, right? Or when Rick Santorum talks about Jihad, and he says that, "Oh, well, Muslims are all jihadists," right? Sorry. "All jihadists are Muslim," right? Does he not realize that there are people in Syria that have declared jihad against ISIS, and they believe it is the religious occupation --</s>PINSKY: Right. OK. So, here is what I want to do.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Fight that.</s>PINSKY: I have to go to break.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: We are with you.</s>PINSKY: I want to you stay with me after the show. We are going to reconvene on Facebook. I will be back after the break, but I want you to educate us about those things. We will have a Facebook After Show, where you are going to teach us those issues, OK?</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Sure.</s>PINSKY: All right. We will be right after this.</s>PINSKY: I want to thank you for watching. I want to thank this audience for showing up today and spending their time and sharing their thoughts. I do not want to get this -- I do not want to allow this conversation to end. Thank you, panelists. Thank you in the audience as well. We need to keep doing this. We will do it in the New Year. And, I am sort of emotionally affected by all this. And, I have an overriding faith in American and Americans. And, I believe we can all get on this boat together. I believe it, deeply. Let us do this. We will see you next time.