David Cameron Testifies Before Leveson Inquiry
KRISTIE LU STOUT, HOST: I'm Kristie Lu Stout in Hong Kong. And welcome to News Stream where news and technology meet. We begin in London where the latest politician to answer questions about his relationship with Rupert Murdoch's media empire is also the most high profile -- British Prime Minister David Cameron. As Aung San Suu Kyi speaks outside Myanmar, we speak to a UN envoy about violence inside the country. And Lance Armstrong says he has never failed a doping test, but now he is facing new allegations. Now British Prime Minister David Cameron is a star witness at London's Royal Courts of Justice. He has been testifying at the Leveson inquiry into media ethics. Mr. Cameron said the relationship between politicians and the press has become a bad one and lacks trust on both sides. And he testified that he has never made a deal in return for favorable media coverage. Now the Leveson inquiry has featured a who's who of some of the most powerful figures in Britain as it probes the relationship between politicians and the press. In addition to David Cameron's appearance today, three former British prime ministers have also taken the stand recently. The first was Tony Blair who testified last month. He said he came under political pressure during his time in office from Rupert Murdoch. But he denied that his government ever acted on behalf of Murdoch's business interests. Now Mr. Blair's successor Gordon Brown testified on Monday. He said he was, quote, shocked and surprised that Murdoch claimed that Mr. Brown declared war on Murdoch's company and the influential press tycoon did not endorse his Labor Party in the 2009 elections. And then former Prime Minister John Major, he testified on Tuesday. And he told the inquiry that Rupert Murdoch warned him back in 1997 to change his policies on Europe he would lose the backing of Murdoch's papers. Now Major's Conservative Party subsequently lost the 1997 election to Labor. Now Rupert Murdoch himself appeared before the Leveson inquiry in April and he insisted, quote, "I have never asked a prime minister for anything." Now let's hear some of the testimony.</s>DAVID CAMERON, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: It is very important alongside, you know, the appalling things that happened to entirely innocent people (inaudible), the huge problem we have in terms of police relations with media is absolutely right. We get to the bottom of the political-media relationship and how to put it on a firmer footing. But what I'm saying is not only was there no covert deal, there was no overt deal, and there wasn't nods and winks. Policies that I produced that I'm very proud of came from our beliefs, values, my history, my beliefs, and they weren't dictated by anybody else.</s>LU STOUT: Now Prime Minister Cameron launched the Leveson inquiry last year in response to the phone hacking scandal which engulfed Rupert Murdoch's now defunct News of the World tabloid. Now Dan Rivers is monitoring Mr. Cameron's testimony. He joins us now live from the Royal Courts of Justice in London. And Dan, we heard what David Cameron had to say about his relationship with the press in general, but give us more details about his ties with the Murdochs and in particular Rebekah Brooks.</s>DAN RIVERS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. It was on the specific question of how close he was to Rebekah Brooks that things really did feel very awkward for David Cameron. He was asked how often he was seeing her, you know, what is it every weekend, was it most weekends. He was really squirming at that point. But I think the headline grabbing moment was just a few minutes later when Robert Jay, the lawyer for the inquiry, revealed a text message from Rebekah Brooks to the prime minister on the 7th of October, 2009 which she sent just a week after the Sun newspaper had switched allegiance from the Labor Party to the Conservatives. I think we have a clip here of Robert Jay reading out that text message and the prime minister's response to it.</s>ROBERT JAY, LEVESON INQUIRY ATTORNEY: Just the phrase but because professionally we're definitely in this together. What was your understanding of that?</s>CAMERON: I think that is about the Sun had made this decision to back the conservatives, to part company with Labor. And so the Sun wanted to make sure it was helping the Conservative Party put its best foot forward with the policies we're announcing, the speech I was going to make and all the rest of it. And I think that's what that means.</s>RIVERS: But just to give that text message some context, it was on the eve of David Cameron making a very important speech to his party here in the UK. And Rebekah Brooks texting him I'm so routing for you tomorrow not just as a proud friend, but because professionally we're definitely in this together. The speech of your life, yes you can. It gives an idea, Kristie, of just how close they appeared together, that Rebekah Brooks was able to send text messages directly to him giving the impression that there was this kind of symbiotic relationship, that because now the Sun had decided to back David Cameron that they felt they were in it together and that has given rise of course to people claiming that in return he gave them an easy ride on laws over media regulation and so on. Now that's something that later on David Cameron, you know, aggressively denied that there was any kind of quid pro quo or grand bargain or covert or overt deal with the Murdoch newspapers, but that text message alone, I think, it is pretty damaging. And it will definitely grab the headlines here in the newspapers this evening and tomorrow as an example of the over close relationship, perhaps too much influence that was being brought to bear by Murdoch's chief executives in those years before the 2010 election.</s>LU STOUT: Yeah. That and the mention of these country dinners that they shared underscoring the nature of their relationship. And Dan, also David Cameron, he was pressed about why he hired Andy Coulson as his communications director. How did he handle that line of questioning?</s>RIVERS: Again, another difficult area for him. But his line was basically was that he hired him because he would do a good job. He was asked repeatedly, well, you know did you ask him about his knowledge of phone hacking and you know what was the answer? And basically he would say, well, you know, Andy Coulson insisted that he had no knowledge of phone hacking. And it was because he had no knowledge of phone hacking as the editor of the paper, i.e. he didn't have a grip on the paper that was why he resigned. Now we know, of course, the story may have been different, that phone hacking was much more widespread than just one rogue reporter as they thought -- as David Cameron thought at the time. It was systemic inside the News of the World. And questions now about how much Andy Coulson knew and ordered and presided over that phone hacking, that's all subject to a police inquiry. So we won't get too much into that. But again it's an awkward, difficult issue for David Cameron. He hired this tabloid journalist just a few months after he'd been forced to quit from the News of the World in a phone hacking scandal. Now of course that very same spin doctor Andy Coulson has been arrested and charged for lying in court. And Rebekah Brooks, the friend that he used to share country suppers with and exchange text messages with has also appeared in court, charged with basically trying to cover up the extent of phone hacking, trying to hide boxes of evidence from the police. The two things obviously fit very awkwardly. And he was doing his best to try and explain the reason why he got so close to both of those characters.</s>LU STOUT: All right. Dan Rivers, thank you for that wrap up. Dan Rivers joining us live from the Royal Courts of Justice. Let's get more analysis of David Cameron's testimony today. And Peter Jukes is the author of "Bad Press: The Fall of the House of Murdoch." He joins me now live from CNN London. And Peter, what do you think was the most politically damaging detail that we've heard so far from the hearing? Is it Cameron's close ties with Rebekah Brooks or his decision to hire Andy Coulson and the thinking behind that?</s>PETER JUKES, AUTHOR: Well, both. But I mean the glaring headline is going to be that text from Rebekah Brooks that, you know, we're all in it together. That's not going to go away. It's a -- this is what is the problem, I think, for politicians is not the evidence they give. I mean, I think he's done a very good performance. He had me schooled. Cameron's presentation has been fine. It's the evidence you can't control. These emails, I think there's another one come from News International. Oh, this is a text, rather. So as to how the Leveson Inquiry, it's the revelation, the slow culmination of detail of the level of these interactions. And that's very awkward. 1,400 meetings with the members of the press in the four years of opposition halving while he was prime minister. That does look like something very close to the press, fascinated by PR, and then specifically close to Rebekah Brooks and hiring one of her proteges Andy Coulson.</s>LU STOUT: So he's performing well so far, but the evidence stacking up against him. David Cameron, he took an interesting position early on, saying he doesn't really pay attention to newspapers, or rather television is a more powerful medium. And I'm just thinking why would he say that given the controversy over the BSkyB takeover? What was his thinking behind that?</s>JUKES: I think they were trying to divert away from the obvious line of newspapers, which is Coulson and Brooks these close associates. I think you're right. I mean, I think Jay made this very good point that actually if there was any implicit or explicit deal with these corporations it would have been about the BBC, about Ofcom. And I think that hasn't really paid well -- I mean, Cameron's background was in TV. He was head of public affairs for Gordon. And it's a more heavily regulated part of the media in the UK and therefore more point governed legislation. I think it was an attempt to get away from the bad odor around the press. I don't think it's particularly succeeded.</s>LU STOUT: Now David Cameron, he said that the inquiry which he said up is a, quote, cathartic moment and a chance to reset relations. But is it really? I mean, what will it change in terms of policy at the end of the day?</s>JUKES: This is very difficult. I mean, the battle has yet to come or the press regulation or self regulation will be. And that will be a big battle, because (inaudible)) if you follow the reaction to Leveson, some called it a witch hunt, others say long overdue. You know, the government and politicians were appeasing media proprietors all the time. There's no consensus over this. It will be a battle royal. And a battle royal over the press who also report this battle royal. So I think that's problematic. What they -- there's already a slight schism between Cameron and Ed Milliband, the opposition leader. And they have -- they came together to form the Leveson inquiry over ownership. Cameron has said it's not really an issue. Ed Milliband says that nobody should own more than about 25 percent of the newspaper market, which, you know, Rupert Murdoch owns 35 percent. So already we have some divisions there.</s>LU STOUT: I also wanted to get your thoughts on the legacy of the Leveson inquiry. And just how optimistic are you that press abuses like phone hacking or cozy relationships between those in power could be prevented in the future?</s>JUKES: I -- well, in a way, daylight has been the best cleanser. It's been an amazing process to see just the level of connection these 1,400 meetings over four years, forgetting the texts and emails. I think, at least when it comes to News International, clearly nobody is going to have that level of contact again. I don't think there will be another, for a long time in a newspaper group, which will be quite so powerful on Fleet Street. In that respect, yes, it will do good.</s>LU STOUT: All right. Peter Jukes, thank you very much indeed for joining us and for your insights. You're watching News Stream. And still ahead, for the first time in more than two decades Myanmar's Aung San Suu Kyi is in Europe. Here what she has just told a UN agency. And no less than seven Tour de France titles are on the line as former U.S. cyclist Lance Armstrong denies new doping allegations. And it is a place where the president and Speaker of the House are both women, but the UN says it is the most dangerous place to be born a girl.