Rift Between Iranian Leaders Growing?
WOLF BLITZER, CNN GUEST HOST: Tonight, protests continued on the streets of Tehran: demonstrators defying even daring the thousands of riot police and militia who lie in the streets ready to strike. Government control of the media is growing. More news organizations expelled from Iran today. But nothing has stopped pictures, eyewitness accounts and information about the crisis from reaching the world as the showdown in Iran shows no signs of ending next on LARRY KING LIVE. Good evening to our viewers in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer sitting in for Larry tonight. Let's get right to it with our guests who can tell us firsthand what's going on inside Iran right now. Roger Cohen is a columnist with the "New York Times," he's in Tehran; and Jason Rezaian, is a correspondent with TehranBureau.com. He's an Iranian-American with duel citizenship. He was in Tehran until this morning. He's now reporting from Dubai. Both are joining us on the phone. Roger, let me start with you. You're there in Tehran. How did this day go?</s>ROGER COHEN, "NEW YORK TIMES" (via telephone): Well, extreme tension in the city, Wolf. I was in the downtown area around Revolution Street; clusters of militia and of police in camouflage, in green uniforms, in black uniforms, in plain clothes, many of them wielding clubs, some with rifles. And the killings of at least a dozen people the previous night kept most people off the street. But you can feel there are protesters as soon as it gets dark. The cry of "Allahu Akbar" God is Great goes-up. I think what the opposition movement is looking for above all right now and maybe lacking at this minute is leadership and direction. There are a lot of people who are extremely angry still. They're just waiting to know which way to move next.</s>BLITZER: Roger, when we hear those chants among those demonstrators, "Death to the dictators," specifically who do they have in mind as far as the dictator is concerned?</s>COHEN: Well that is not generally clarified. I think certainly at the beginning of this what supporters of Mir Hossein Mousavi, the opposition leader, officially defeated resoundingly defeated officially in the election or widely regarded as fraudulent just over a week ago, what they wanted was the unseating of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, the president. There is much more nuance now to that, there's much more anger and there's anger at the whole system. And that, of course, is headed by the Supreme Leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei. So there's ambiguity there. And what there is, is anger at the absence of any kind of pluralism. This was a system that was an authoritarian system. But one in which Iranians thought that every four years they had some little say in the direction the country took. And what they discovered last week was that that was absolutely not the case, that this was a dictatorship; so hence that cry.</s>BLITZER: Jason, you just left Tehran. You're now in Dubai. Where is this thing heading based on everything you've seen and heard?</s>JASON REZAIAN, TEHRAN BUREAU.COM (via telephone): Well, I think Roger might agree with me. It's really hard to say. About two weeks ago when people were almost parading up and down the streets of Tehran, a kind of celebratory mood, there was so much hope and excitement about this election. I arrived in Tehran a month ago, a month ago today. And at that point there was absolutely no talk of the election at all. It wasn't even something of that importance to people. So it's just taken so many twists and turns. And I think to echo what Roger was saying, there is so much anger and resentment towards the regime at this point. I even spoke with a couple of people today before I left that had voted for Ahmadinejad that said, "Even we're upset because, you know, the results seem so farfetched. Do they think that we're idiots; do they think we're children? This is ridiculous."</s>BLITZER: There's -- these images -- this image of this young woman named Neda, who was killed in one of these demonstrations. And I want to show our viewers what's going on with this picture that we have. We have a warning for our viewers. Octavia Nasr filed this report for us. This report contains extremely graphic video that is very disturbing. In addition, parents may decide it is inappropriate for children. But it's important that we see this. Here is Octavia's report.</s>OCTAVIA NASR, CNN'S SENIOR EDITOR, MIDDLE EAST AFFAIRS: Her name is Neda, the facts surrounding her life and her death, difficult to verify. She appears to have been a young student who joined thousands of her countrymen to voice her disapproval of Iran's election results. Eyewitnesses say Basij militiamen hiding on a building roof top shot Neda in her chest, silencing her forever. A man who appears to be her father, desperately calling on her to open her eyes. A stranger begging her to stay awake, "Don't be afraid. Don't be afraid, Neda," the man says, but Neda doesn't respond. She dies right there on the streets, another protester. Neda which means "the calling," is now on millions of clips across the globe, on the Internet in specially designed avatars. A young life cut-down in its prime. One woman's gripping story speaking volumes, a grim reminder of the price Iranians could pay for freedom.</s>BLITZER: Roger, Roger Cohen in Tehran, there is no doubt this image is now being seen by millions, probably tens of millions of people all over the world. But is it seen inside Iran?</s>COHEN: Yes, it's seen. And it's known about. And, of course, martyrdom in the Shia branch of Islam is a very powerful thing as it was in the revolution of 1979 where the martyrdom of some protesters in 1978 and '79 echoed and people are mourned for three days. They're mourned again after 40 days. It's quite a cycle. So at least I think these images feed the anger that is out there. And I think the fundamental shift that we've seen here, is that a lot of people didn't like this system much. But at least until the election, they have made their own compromises with it. They were prepared to live with it. Millions of people have made a fundamental shift, and they -- a way from reluctant acceptance toward outright opposition. I don't know how that plays out but it's a fundamental shift and it's going to affect this country for a long time.</s>BLITZER: Jason, based on what you saw and based on what you know, will the police -- the police -- the regular Iranian police have the stomach, the determination to go out there and kill fellow Iranians?</s>REZAIAN: I think Wolf, less and less. I met many police officers over the last week or so that wanted to have nothing to do with it. You have to remember that -- that a lot of the police in Tehran specifically are military constables and they're serving two years of mandatory service to the country. And, you know, the last thing they want to do is turn on their fellow citizens. Now the case would be -- the members of the Iranian -- the Revolutionary Guard as well as the Basij is very different. But normal police, no, I think that they will at some point refuse to fire or beat their own people.</s>BLITZER: Because Roger, in your article that you wrote in the "New York Times" today, it was a very strong piece. You said some police units are wavering right now. What do you mean by that?</s>COHEN: Well, I saw regular police units talking to people related to this one incident where the commander of a unit of a dozen police moved forward, arms raised and said, "Look, I have a family. I don't want to beat people much less shoot people. Please leave." There were units that were just standing around. That said, the Revolutionary Guards and the Basij are formidable forces and they're both large. Would they -- if ordered to do so open fire at large groups of Iranians protesting? There have been isolated shootings. And dozens of people have died. Mainly from the Basij, this very menacing plain clothed militia. But would there be the whole sail cutting-down of swathes of people? I can't see that. I can't see Iranians opening fire on other Iranians. Even with the degree of fanaticism there is in some units. I think that's very hard to imagine. But there is a great deal of dedication in these two groups, particularly Revolutionary Guards and the militia. Many of them I saw yesterday out in the street today for you where it looked to me 15, 14 even. I think they've been bussed-in from villages and these are brainwashed kids. Brainwashed from the age of five, six and utterly dedicated to a regime that they see manifesting the hand of God on earth.</s>BLITZER: Roger Cohen is with the New York Times. He's in Tehran and Jason Rezaian is with tehranbureau.com. Guys thanks very much for joining us. We'll check back with both of you tomorrow. We're going to continue our extensive coverage here on LARRY KING LIVE. This is a special LARRY KING LIVE. We're all over what's happening in Iran right now, the breaking news. This is one of those moments in world history where things could go in either direction. And we're watching it for you. Stay with us. Much more coming up after this.