Effort To Defund Police Departments Gains Momentum; Trump And D.C. Mayor Intensify Feud Over Protests.
CAMEROTA: This morning, the congressional black caucus will unveil a new bill aimed at reforming law enforcement. It comes as the Minneapolis City Council proposes a plan to dismantle their police department. Joining us now is Cheryl Dorsey, she's a retired LAPD Police Sergeant. We also have Sean Smoot, he is the Director of the Police Benevolent and Protective Association in Illinois. He's also a former member of the Obama administration's Of Obama's task force on 21st century policing. Great to have both of you and both of your different perspectives. Ms. Dorsey, I want to start with you. When you hear about what the Minneapolis City Council is proposing, dismantling, I mean, it is more than reform. This is not just another word for reform. It is dismantling their police department. What are your thoughts?</s>CHERYL DORSEY, RETIRED LAPD POLICE SERGEANT: Well, listen, this isn't the first time that a police department has been dismantled. That happened over in the Ferguson, Missouri, before Ferguson, it was another police department. And so if you have officers who are inclined to misbehave and you have a police chief who coddles, shelters and condones it, then it's time for a move in a different direction.</s>CAMEROTA: And, Ms. Dorsey, before I let you go, what does that mean? What would dismantling a city police force mean? How could they continue to protect the public?</s>DORSEY: Well, it could mean a couple of things. It could mean giving jurisdiction to a neighboring county, sheriff's, certainly, that's happened in Los Angeles. There are parts of Los Angeles that are carved up and are serviced by L.A. County Sheriff's Department. So I would imagine that something like that could happen. I mean, you're not going to just dismantle it without having something to put in place immediately, so why not put something that already exists and is working efficiently.</s>CAMEROTA: So, Mr. Smoot, is that how you interpret this also?</s>SEAN SMOOT, DIRECTOR, POLICE BENEVOLENT AND PROTECTIVE ASSOCIATION OF ILLINOIS: Somewhat. I mean, I think when people talk about dismantling and use that term, it's a bit of a misnomer. I think what they're really talking about is reorganization and re-envisioning the way public safety services are provided. I will tell you that there are a lot of things that police are asked to do that they weren't asked to do 15 or 20 years ago. For instance, specifically, and this is a big issue in policing, is responding to people who are suffering from mental illness. And when that occurs, police officers would much rather have a community-based resource that could go respond to folks who are having a mental health crisis or are suffering from an addiction issue. It's really about adopting more of a revision of differential response and responding with the resources that can be best utilized to keep people safe, including the community members and police officers.</s>CAMEROTA: That's a really good point. I mean, that is what they're talking about. That if they redirect funds to mental health professionals, away from police, then some of these issues could be resolved by the people who are steeped in the expertise rather than, as they say, strangers with guns showing up in the community. But, Ms. Dorsey, let's get to a dicier, an even dicier subject, if possible, particularly given you both here, and that's the role of police unions. From where you sit, do you believe that police unions have been an impediment to reform?</s>DORSEY: From where I sit, as I talk to those in my community and folks on the police department who look like me, absolutely. Listen, we've seen time and time again, presidents of the Fraternal Order Police, Officers Association, as well as of my own, Los Angeles Police Protective League, who seemingly have not seen the murder of a black man or woman that doesn't excite them. Police unions are lobbying arms of the police department and they put up great resistance. Whenever the community members along with legislators try to put forth anything that would curtail, rein in, or create accountability. And that's at the end of the day what folks want, accountability, officers to be held accountable when they violate policy or commit crimes. And, listen, I'm saying that's a small minority, but let's call a thing a thing.</s>CAMEROTA: Mr. Smoot?</s>SMOOTH: Well, I think, certainly, some unions have. There are other unions that have actually been proponents of reform efforts, if you look at laws that were passed in 2015, both in Wisconsin and Illinois, for instance, requiring the independent investigation of an officer- involved death. In Illinois, we passed a tremendous reform package bill that included changes in training, requiring changing on things like implicit bias and cultural competence, dealing with people with mental illness and addiction issues. Those are things that were never in place before, and it was actually my organization and the Fraternal Order of Police in Illinois that drafted the legislation and lobbied to move it through Illinois' general assembly.</s>CAMEROTA: Well, I mean, that's good to hear -- I mean, I hear that you're saying, obviously, I can't paint with a -- no one can paint with a broad brush stroke, but then when you hear this leaked email from the president of the Union -- the union president in Minneapolis, who is referring to the protesters as a terrorist movement, what do you say to those presidents of unions?</s>SMOOT: Well, I would say that members of the police department in Minneapolis probably elected the wrong person to be their representative and their president. And I think what we're going to see as a result of that is some pretty severe reactions by the city, some of which one of your previous guests just talked about. I think, you know, leadership is an important thing, whether you're an elected union leader or whether you're a chief of police or an elected official. And leadership comes with responsibility and a responsibility is to do -- to -- in policing in particular, is to do what's best for your members and what's best for ultimately what their mission is, which is serving and protecting the community.</s>CAMEROTA: Sean Smoot, Sheryl Dorsey, we really appreciate both of your perspectives on this. Thank you for being here.</s>SMOOT: Thank you.</s>DORSEY: Thank you.</s>CAMEROTA: John?</s>BERMAN: All right. A remarkable moment in Washington, D.C. Former Republican Presidential Nominee Mitt Romney marched in this Black Lives Matter protest. The National Guard is withdrawing from the nation's capital this morning, as the mayor of D.C. and the president intensify their feud. CNN's Boris Sanchez joins us now live from what is now Black Lives Matter Plaza near the White House.</s>BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, John. And we are standing on the mural that D.C. Mayor Muriel Bowser commissioned by artists, clearly sending a message to President Trump, Black Lives Matter, right in front of the White House. But perhaps nothing speaks to their feud better than the barrier that's been erected around the White House complex. On one side, we've seen military police head-to-toe in riot gear. Our president tweeting that police should get tougher. On the other hand, we're seeing protesters use that barrier effectively as a canvas for their protest signs and a mayor who's willing to take their message directly to the White House.</s>SANCHEZ: Protesters flooding Washington, D.C. again this weekend, marching on the newly named Black Lives Matter Plaza, right across from the White House. Large yellow letters painted on the street reading Black Lives Matter, art commissioned by D.C. Mayor Muriel Bowser, after days of feuding with President Trump.</s>MAYOR MURIEL BOWSER (D-DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA.): People from around the globe have called us and thanked us for acknowledging black humanity and black lives.</s>SANCHEZ: The feud erupting a week ago, on May 29th, after protesters clashed with law enforcement outside the White House. Mayor Bowser meeting with advisers the following morning and hosting a conference call with the police chief. Meantime, President Trump firing off a barrage of tweets, some directed at the mayor. One that particularly upset her, a tweet saying that if protesters breached the fence outside the White House, quote, they would have been greeted with the most vicious dogs and most ominous weapons. The language, a reminder of police attacks against civil rights protesters in the 1960s. The president also wrongly claimed that the mayor withheld D.C. police from assisting Secret Service. Bowser firing back with her own tweets, slamming Trump for hiding behind a fence in the White House. On Monday, June 1st, after a night of some unrest in the city, the president wanted to deploy up to 10,000 active duty troops to American cities, including Washington, but defense officials objected, sources told CNN. Attorney General Bill Barr now denying that claim.</s>WILLIAM BARR, ATTORNEY GENERAL: No, he did not demand that. The decision was made to have at the ready and on hand in the vicinity, some regular troops.</s>SANCHEZ: Bowser declaring a 7:00 P.M. curfew for D.C. that day, but before the curfew, military police used chemical gas and rubber projectiles, pushing back protesters to allow Trump to take photos at the damaged St. John's Episcopal Church. On Thursday, Mayor Bowser asked Trump to pull National Guard and unidentified federal law enforcement from</s>D.C. BOWSER: What we saw last week was basically an invasion of our city.</s>SANCHEZ: President Trump finally tweeting on Sunday he was ordering the National Guard to start withdrawing from the nation's capital, but only after calling Mayor Bowser grossly incompetent in an earlier tweet.</s>SANCHEZ: Now, John, just two quick things I wanted to point out. This portion of the mural was not commissioned by the mayor. It says, defund the police. It was added over the weekend by some activists. She has been unclear about whether or not she's going to have this portion altered or removed. And lastly, there was a very special visitor to the mural this weekend, Congressman John Lewis, who in December was diagnosed with Stage IV pancreatic cancer, came out here, the civil rights icon saying he wanted to see the mural himself, John?</s>BERMAN: Incredibly powerful to see the pictures of him, John Lewis, who has been through so much standing there. Boris, thank you very much. I appreciate it. A protester shot in the face with a rubber bullet by police is now considering legal action. She tells us her story, next.