Tunisia, Arab Spring Success, under Attack
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN HOST: Tonight: is Tunisia, the Arab Spring's success story, at risk after terrorists target the parliament and a museum in the capital, killing 19 people, most of them foreign tourists? I'll speak to an MP who was evacuated in the chaos plus the country's representative in Washington. Also ahead, my interview with the emir of Kano in Northern Nigeria on fighting corruption and Boko Haram.</s>LAMIDO SANUSI, EMIR OF KANO: The idea of Boko Haram or anyone that links up with (ph) ISIS is frightening, partly because these are groups that represent a lunatic fringe in Islam.</s>AMANPOUR: Good evening, everyone, and welcome to the program. I'm Christiane Amanpour. Gunmen killed 19 people at a museum in the Tunisian capital, Tunis; 17 of them were tourists. Tourists flock to the North African country in droves. People fled the museum and security forces moved in and ended a two-hour hostage standoff by killing two attackers. They were described by the government as "Islamists," but three of them remain on the loose, the prime minister says. Right now, Tunisia's parliament is meeting in a special session. Such an attack may, unfortunately, have been inevitable, as you can see in this map behind me, more people have traveled from Tunisia to fight in Syria and Iraq than from any other country, whether from the Arab world or Europe. But Tunisia, where the Arab Spring began, has largely been a source of hope for the region, enjoying democracy and peaceful transitions of power, a sentiment the Tunisians' then-president expressed to me back in 2013.</s>MONCEF MARZOUKI, TUNISIAN PRESIDENT: I'm very, very confident. I think the Arab Spring which started in Tunisia will not die in Tunisia.</s>AMANPOUR: Will that hope stay alive or is it fading? Joining me now on the phone from Tunis is Meherzia Labidi, who was in parliament at the time of the museum attack. She's an MP for the moderate Islamist Party Ennahda. Ms. Labidi, thank you for joining me. Tell me what happened when you were in parliament.</s>MEHERZIA LABIDI, TUNISIAN MP: Indeed, today, is a day where the commission, different commissions are working in the parliament. So we are about 80 MPs, working in different rooms. Then we heard that there is a shooting. There is a sound of exploder (sic) and so we are asked out and the security told us that there is three or four guys. Now we are sure that they are for -- they are with the arms (ph). They intrude (ph) and they are -- they've been shooting on the tourists who were getting from buses to enter the museum. And you know, the museum of Bardo and the parliament are in the same building, two different entrances, but the same building. So the tourists who were frightened (ph) and they were running in different directions, we opened the doors and we get them to enter to the parliament and to secure them. And in doing so, three of our employees were injured.</s>AMANPOUR: Ms. Labidi, this is obviously a huge, huge shock for Tunisia. I raised the question is the hope of Tunisia and this beginning of the Arab Spring, the success story, really, in your region, is that hope at jeopardy right now?</s>LABIDI: No, no. We will not surrender to terrorism. We will not surrender to fear. Of course, we are very sad, very sad that our hosts -- our guests who came from different countries, 17 or maybe more of them have been killed. And this is not Tunisia. And terrorism, we fight it altogether. Today, we've united, one voice, all MPs, all political parties, media, citizens. We are all backing our army and police force to get rid of terrorism. Now we will succeed.</s>LABIDI: -- we are firmly, firmly have the intention to reject terrorism, to fight it and we will not surrender. We will succeed.</s>AMANPOUR: You sound so determined and hopeful. But tell me, then, what happened in Tunisia? Why is it that, for instance, more Tunisians than from any other country are joining the fight with ISIS and others in Iraq and Syria? Why from your country?</s>LABIDI: Yes. Well, I think this is the inheritance of the past. During the two past decades, there is no real culture of religion or culture simply, not only on religious matters. And this has deprived our youth from, let's say, self-defense against these ideas, which are extremist and against manipulation. And we have not only to develop a security answer to terrorism, but also an educational answer, culture, restore dialogue and let's not forget that of course many -- I think more than 3,000 youths went to Syria. But we have prevented, I think more than 9,000 to go. And we are welcome them to this freedom, to tell them that life in Tunisia, life in democracy is better when -- than what some people try to sell them and saying that you have to be jihad. There is no jihad, apart the jihad, let's say, bettering the self and bettering our country and implementing democracy. We have really to work on the cultural level and --</s>LABIDI: -- development (ph) of ideas --</s>AMANPOUR: Yes, you have -- you have a --</s>LABIDI: -- development.</s>AMANPOUR: -- you have a very challenging road ahead. We wish you good luck, officer. Mehrezia Labidi, MP from the moderate Islamist Party Ennahda, thank you for joining me at parliament right now. And now joining me from Washington, D.C., is Kais Darragi. He is the charge d'affaires at the Tunisian embassy. Thank you for joining me. Can I just build on what Ms. Labidi has just told me about what went down today? Do you, does the government know who these killers were? Who exactly are they?</s>KAIS DARRAGI, CHARGE D'AFFAIRES, TUNISIAN EMBASSY: Two of the killers have been killed themselves. And their identity has been revealed. But we cannot speculate right now about their affiliation, but we can stipulate and say that it might be the Okba Ibn Nafaa Brigade or Ansar al- Sharia, the two terrorist organizations that have merged in 2014 under the leadership of the Algerian, Abou Sakhr. That might be a possibility.</s>AMANPOUR: So isn't this the same group whose Libyan branch was responsible for the Benghazi attack, the attack on the ambassador, Chris Stevens, there?</s>DARRAGI: There is solid ground to believe in this possibility. But I think we have to let investigation take its course and we'll find out who was responsible for this attack.</s>AMANPOUR: And why -- I did ask Ms. Labidi this, and she answered from her perspective; from your perspective and the presidential perspective, why has this spike of terrorism happened right now?</s>DARRAGI: It's quite understandable and expected. I mean, Tunisia has been a symbol of democracy and enlightenment in the region. And we have won the battle of ideas against these marginal and extremist groups. They cannot be integrated into a democratic process; they are not interested in democratic debates and democratic processes. So they resort to violence. That's the only kind of weapon they have. The Tunisians are determined to respond to this violence by applying the weapon they most fear, that is liberty and democracy. We persevere on this process, on this track. And that's the only way to win this battle against terrorists who would like to derail the process. But Tunisia is fulfilling its promise and it will remain a beacon of democracy and hope for the whole region.</s>AMANPOUR: Well, you say it's not surprising, but of course everybody is surprised precisely because of Tunisia's smooth transition since the Arab Spring and its elections and its handover of power in a way that was democratic. So people are worried. And Tunisia is a place where, unlike many of the other North African countries, you have -- you have tourists still flocking to you. Do you think that's, you know, this is going to put more pressure on your already fragile economic situation?</s>DARRAGI: That's even another reason to make Tunisia more valuable. I mean, if you look at the targets of this terrorist attack, they have been - - attacked two symbols, two major symbols of Tunisia, the Bardo Museum, which is an embodiment of Tunisian culture, of Tunisian history, of Tunisian openness, and mingling point of different civilizations. That's something they hate. They hate culture. And the house of parliament, which is the embodiment of the sovereignty of the people, which is the emanation of free and democratic elections that were celebrated everywhere. So by attacking these two targets, they are showing their despair and their desperate attempts to derail this process. But if you see reactions today in Tunisia, it started from anger and then formidable stance of national unity. That's how we are going to win this battle. Tunisia will prevail. Democracy in Tunisia will prevail.</s>AMANPOUR: What about the -- those who lost their lives and who were injured today? Can you tell me more about the nationalities of those who were killed today, the tourists?</s>DARRAGI: We have unfortunately some tourists who have been killed, some Tunisians, too, two Tunisians, too. Our thoughts and prayers go to their families, to the family of the victims, those who are dead and those who were injured. But the information we have so far is that we have some casualties among Italian tourists, Spanish, Polish tourists. That's for the moment. That's the kind of information we have.</s>AMANPOUR: Kais Darragi, charge d'affaires at the Tunisian embassy in D.C., thank you very much indeed --</s>DARRAGI: Can I just say a word about the solidarity we have found within the U.S.?</s>AMANPOUR: Go ahead -- briefly.</s>DARRAGI: We were really overwhelmed with expressions of support from the White House, from the State Department, but most importantly from ordinary citizens of the U.S. We have received so many calls, particularly one from Boston, one who survived the attack on Boston and who was very much on the stance that this is an international battle, that this is a battle of values and that we will have to win it together. We thank all Americans for their support. And we should not all give into fear. Thank you very much.</s>AMANPOUR: Beautifully said. Kais Darragi from the Tunisian embassy in Washington, thank you very much for joining me. And after a break, we turn from terror in Tunisia to Boko Haram's war on Nigeria. But first, a cry for mercy and justice in Pakistan as this man faces the gallows for a crime he says he was tortured into admitting when he was just 14. Shafqat Hussain has spent 11 years on death row for the murder of a 7- year-old boy. His family's appealing to the courts for mercy; his mother hasn't seen him in 10 years. And just as we've come on air, state television in Pakistan is reporting a stay of execution. The execution was due tomorrow morning. But Hussain still doesn't know his ultimate fate. When we come back, Nigeria's struggle with Boko Haram and corruption. I speak to the man who's taken on both, the emir of Kano. That's next.