Rick Gates Faces Tough Cross-Examination from Manafort's Team
LEMON: So we have more now on our breaking news. CNN projects that John James wins the Republican nomination for U.S. Senate in Michigan. James is an African-American Iraq war veteran who was endorsed by President Trump. He's going to face Democratic incumbent Debbie Stabenow. Now we want to get to some other news, and we'll get back to our election coverage in just a moment. My dream team is standing by. But I want to get to some other news here. Paul Manafort's longtime deputy Rick Gates facing tough cross-examination on Tuesday. Let's talk about this now with CNN national security analyst Juliette Kayyem. Juliette is a former Department of Homeland Security official. And Michael Moore, a former U.S. attorney for the Middle District of Georgia. Hello, both of you. Thank you for coming on. So, Juliette, the defense got their first crack at cross-examining Rick Gates. How did he hold up?</s>JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, obviously we're all interpreting this from the outside, but it appears a couple of things happened that are worth repeating here. One is that he was contrite. He addresses the jury, apologizes, says he's trying to make things right. And I think the second thing which is key here is that at no stage during this cross-examination was the defense able to separate Gates from Manafort. In other words, the defense strategy has got to be Gates acted by himself, right? That he was doing this all on his own. And I think that just from the testimony that we've seen so far the defense failed in that regard. Manafort is clearly pushing Gates or conspiring with Gates to do all of these illegalities. In fact there's a line in one of the documents where Manafort says to Gates, you told me you were on top of this. That's the statement of the leader to the worker bee, you know, fix this. And so I think that in that sense the defense did fail to do the one thing they needed to do, which is basically Gates was doing all this illegal stuff on his own.</s>LEMON: But he was forced to admit an affair and that he had embezzled money from Paul Manafort. Do you think the defense succeeded in painting Gates as a flawed witness? Juliette?</s>KAYYEM: So -- yes, so I think that, you know, obviously the corruption and the sort of icky-ness of all these characters is rampant. And so it's for the jury to decide whether the guy who's trying to come clean now is better or more, you know, trustworthy than the guy who's not speaking. So -- and I think that the prosecution sort of, you know, prepared the jury for the bad news about Gates. But what we have to remember about Gates, and this is true in all these national security cases, is it's not like Gates is just saying something and there's no corroborating evidence. What Gates is doing is that he's essentially validating the documentation the prosecution already has, the e-mails, the tax forms, the faulty financial dealings. And then remember the five witnesses who have already testified, the bookkeeper and others, in the office saying, yes, this was all illegal. So I'm not saying Gates is irrelevant, but he's not -- he's just simply validating the documents, the electronic information and the other witnesses. So -- so in that sense he's more valid.</s>LEMON: So, Michael, Rick Gates claimed that Manafort tried to secure jobs for associates in the Trump administration. This trial is really about bank and tax fraud. Is this testimony something you expect the prosecution to pursue further?</s>MICHAEL MOORE, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY, MIDDLE DISTRICT OF CONGRESS: I don't know how far they'll go into it. I mean, at this point it's really about showing that Manafort was trying to use his position. He used it to manipulate to get money. He used it to have influence with overseas money. And so I don't know how far they'll dig into it. Let me say this, i think</s>LEMON: But his attorney said he had a great day, Michael.</s>MOORE: Well, you know, that's fake news, I mean -- I guess, that's what his attorney is saying out there because, you know, they didn't have a good day. It's never a good day when you have to come out and say it's a good day in court like that. And so, really, Gates came in. He stuck to his deal. He's told -- he was contrite in some things. We knew he was going to have to talk about that. But he was prepped and there was nothing new that the Mueller team did not know, going in. And so, all this information was, you know, would came out. I mean, the bottom line is that, he is piecing together and corroborating evidence that's already in the case. And they had to bring him in because if they didn't bring him in, the juror is sitting there thinking, well, why didn't they bring this guy in? You know, and the Manafort team is going to argue it is all Gates. Well, now Gates is here, and Gates has come in and said, look, I did some stuff wrong too. But I'm here to tell you that I did wrong, and now, you know, Paul should have done the same thing.</s>LEMON: But, Michael, it's tough because Gates worked for Manafort for 20 years.</s>MOORE: Sure.</s>LEMON: And so, you know, do you think it's potentially a mistake for the defense to paint Gates as a corrupt liar without even painting Manafort with the same brush?</s>MOORE: Well, I think they've probably splattered paint all over Manafort through their cross-examination today. I mean, I -- and really, what do they have? I mean, at the end of the day, you've got these e-mails, you've got these statements, you've got the bookkeepers and accountants saying that Manafort told them what to do. So, what other choice does the defense have? I don't think it's a winning strategy for them. I've said this, I think, I have every expectation that Manafort's going to be convicted. But they really don't have great facts on their side. So, the only thing knew is kind of</s>LEMON: Yes.</s>MOORE: So, the only thing they can do is, kind of, come and throw darts at Gates and hope that, you know, they can deflate him somehow. But, you know, it's hard to change some of the things that Manafort puts in e-mails and directives.</s>LEMON: Well, Juliette, I heard you say yes when he said that he's going to be convicted. This case is Special Counsel Robert Mueller's first real chance to show what he's got. How is he doing?</s>KAYYEM: I mean, it appears to be a very strong case, and I think you'd want to lead with a very strong case and just to remind everyone, this is camp -- this is Trump's campaign chairman and deputy campaign chairman. This is not the case. It's not about Trump, but obviously, that's the atmospherics. And what I want to remind people that while we're talking about the legalities or the illegalities of this basically corrupt enterprise that they had established that put Manafort in debt, sort of, then drew him to Trump as, sort of, the money train. The Trump campaign is a money train. He was so in debt that he was willing to work for free because he knew on the other side of this, he might make money. But I just -- from the National Security perspective, take a step back. Think of how corruptible Manafort and Gates are through this whole process because they're getting foreign money to support this lifestyle. They are doing all sorts of illegal things that are pretty well-known to probably their clients. And so from the perspective of the National Security perspective, these guys are so easily corrupted by a foreign entity, and I think that's where the Trump aura and the -- and the Mueller stuff, all is in play here. These guys were, you know -- I mean, they were just, you know, ripe for a foreign entity to take advantage of them.</s>LEMON: All right. Listen, thank you both. I appreciate that. Listen, if you want to stick around, you can, just a moment. But I want to bring Alice Stewart in because, Alice, you went to the courtroom. You visited this morning. Give me an impression. What were your impressions?</s>STEWART: It was clear Gates was being forthright. He was putting it out on the table. Manafort sat there, and he seemed pissed, you know, that he was -- everything was being laid out there on the table. And while we spent so much time talking about Manafort spending money on the ostrich jacket and now we know Gates spent money on a love shack in London, those were the juicy details. But a lot of what there was today, was document after document after document, which clearly outlines what they were doing to hide money, to set up shell corporations, to claim income as loans, and it was all very dirty and underhanded. And I think so far, they've made a very good argument that they broke the law. And I don't see how they can -- jury can come to any other conclusion.</s>LEMON: You think Manafort is guilty?</s>STEWART: Clearly he's guilty. But the key is, what we didn't hear a lot of -- I tell you, we didn't hear anything about Trump. We didn't hear a lot about key things that really directly connect them with the Trump organization.</s>LEMON: They can't really bring that up.</s>STEWART: They cannot bring that up. And the judge was very clear. And the one time that Gates had the opportunity, he said, a presidential campaign and talking about some other people that were sitting in there, they have done a good job of separating. This looks like two crooks who capitalized on their ability to get clients overseas, and they are two dirty guys, one is coming clean, and the other is not.</s>SETMAYER: But what they did bring up today was the Bank of Cypress.</s>STEWART: Right.</s>SETMAYER: And that is significant because of the role of who owned the Bank of Cypress, was one of the Russian oligarchs who bought that mansion from Trump in Palm Beach for $98 million, where Trump got that $50 million, whatever, $48 million profit on, which was questionable because the property was overinflated in price. And also, our current commerce secretary, Wilbur Ross, took over that bank. And the Bank of Cypress is notorious for Russian money laundering. So, you know, that aspect of it and Paul Manafort and Rick Gates' involvement in using the Bank of Cypress to launder money, and the connection to our commerce secretary and Russian oligarchs and Trump, is of significance and shouldn't be ignored.</s>LEMON: Interesting. Thank you very much. And again, our thanks to Michael and Juliette, appreciate it. When we come back, how Robert Mueller's investigation could be playing with voters. Will it affect any of the candidates at the polls? What Lindsey Graham warned the President about? That's next.