Mueller Report "Does Not Exonerate Trump And Is Unable To Conclude That No Obstruction Took Place; Mueller On Obstruction: "Unable To Conclude That No Criminal Conduct Occurred; Mueller: Probe 'Uncovered Evidence Of Numerous Links"; Sarah Sanders Admitted To Mueller Her Public Comments About FBI Weren't Based in Fact
HARLOW: All right, welcome back. The special counsel's report is out of 448 pages. And if you have not read the entire thing, that's right, we're here for you. Robert Mueller found no evidence that the president's campaign conspired with the Russians interfere in the 2016 election. And also declined to conclude that a criminal charge of obstruction against the president is warranted. He put in his report multiple occasions though when the President did try to intervene in the investigation. Outlining 10 different areas they looked at on the obstruction front. Let me read you part of this report. "If we had confidence after a thorough investigation of the facts that the president clearly did not commit obstruction of justice, we would state so. We would so state. Based on the facts and the applicable legal standards, however, were unable to reach that judgment. The evidence we obtained about the president's actions and intent present difficult issues that prevent us from conclusively determining that no criminal conduct occurred. Accordingly, while this report does not conclude that the president committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him." Joining me now, Josh Campbell, our law enforcement analyst, and former FBI supervisory special agent. Brian Stelter, our chief media correspondent. Areva Martin, our legal analyst, and the civil rights attorney. And Jennifer Rogers, our legal analyst, and a former federal prosecutor. Good morning, good evening to all of you. It's 1:18 in the morning here on the East Coast. And Josh Campbell, let me begin with you. Given what you did before you worked here, role in the Justice Department and the FBI. Barr's framing of all of this. What should the American people walk away with? Confidence in the attorney general?</s>JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: But -- well, I think the American people should know that they've been taking for a ride here. And I'll say I was one of the first person and people on this air whenever this letter came out from Barr. We've discovered this 14- page.</s>HARLOW: March 24th.</s>CAMPBELL: Essentially, a job and -- or even before that this job interview, right? When that came out that he had submitted a letter criticizing the Mueller investigation. We learned about that.</s>HARLOW: When he was a private citizen.</s>CAMPBELL: Correct. Yes, exactly. And people looked at that with great suspicion. Like, OK, what was he trying to do? Audition for a job? Why would he come out as a private citizen go through all this work? And I was actually one of the ones defending him saying, "Humpy brakes, let's lower roll here. We don't know what his motivation was." I've since evolved on that because I now see a pattern. You have that. You see him framing this document in his four-page memo, saying that there was no collusion and that he determined that there was no obstruction. What he did is the -- essentially, a liable mission in my judgment. And that is: you say a couple things, you leave a couple of important things out. The part that he left out that was so important is what Robert Mueller's actually said in this report. And that is President Trump, according to investigators had this pattern of attacking investigators, trying to control the investigation, trying to get witnesses not to cooperate with the investigation. All that is very troubling. None of that was in the original framing of this. Which in my mind, when I say, we were taken for a ride, that's because four weeks ago, this was baked in, and now we're having to refute it based on the fact.</s>HARLOW: So, Areva Martin, to you, legal expert on this. Mueller also outlined in here why he did not come to a conclusion on obstruction of justice? And he also made it very clear, by the way, that Congress has the ability and the right to take the ball and go from here if it so chooses. Right?</s>AREVA MARTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, Poppy.</s>HARLOW: I guess, I'm just wondering if Mueller comes to testify, right? We'll see. What's the most important question you'd ask him on the obstruction front?</s>MARTIN: I think one of the most important things we want to hear from Bob Mueller is: why didn't he reach a conclusion with respect to obstruction given all the evidence that he lays out in this 400 plus page report? We heard Barr make the statement this morning that it had nothing to do with this office of legal counsel, you know, policy about not being able to indict a sitting president.</s>HARLOW: But it did.</s>MARTIN: You're absolutely correct. That was a misstatement. That was a false statement by Attorney General Barr. And it's pretty clear from the report that, that was a huge consideration for -- you know, special counsel Mueller. And that but for that OLC -- you know, policy. I think there would have been a different determination. And I think, Bob Mueller, you know, he laid out this roadmap for Congress to look at the issue of obstruction. And he also talked about what can happen to President Trump when he leaves office. So, he didn't say, Congress, this is only for you to take a look at, for you to consider impeachment. He also said the kinds of conduct that Trump was engaged in, also can be something that's the subject of a prosecution once he is out of office. And I think that was very telling as we talk about things that were left out of Barr's -- you know, brief press conference this morning. That was a very critical point that he did not punctuate when he --</s>HARLOW: Yes.</s>MARTIN: You know, made the statements about the president being exonerated.</s>HARLOW: Jennifer, to you, in Barr's remarks this morning on this front. He said, "Although, the deputy attorney general and I disagreed with some of the special counsel's legal theories, and felt the episodes examined did not amount to obstruction." How significant is that the Barr notes here that he and Rod Rosenstein disagreed with some of Mueller's legal theories on the obstruction front?</s>JENNIFER ROGERS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, it's clear that they did because that, of course, was the point of his whole audition letter. As Josh put it that he doesn't believe that legally, the president can be charged with obstruction for exercising his Article two powers. And Mueller does a very good job in the back end of the report. And I think this is a part of the report that most people will glaze over. But a very careful point-by-point refutation of those legal arguments that were raised in this case, actually, by the president's personal counsel but are essentially the same arguments that Barr had raised. So, you know, I think what Barr is saying there is, OK, yes, we disagree on the law. But really, what we were doing is saying that on the facts we don't think there's enough evidence to justify it. And he's doing that because, you know, you say reasonable lawyers can disagree on the legal arguments. And I think Mueller has a better of those here. But he wants the people to believe that there isn't enough evidence here. So, that's why he's pushing that narrative. And when you read the Mueller report, I have to say you have to come to the opposite conclusion on that right.</s>HARLOW: Brian.</s>BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: That's the thing, I think, well, the Trump world is doing. And unfortunately, the attorney generals is part of this, is promoting this big lie. There's lots of little lies that are revealed in this report. There's a lot of little lies you've become used to over the past 2-1/2 years. But there's a bigger lie being promoted. The president's promoted this witch-hunt lie. Now he's promoting the no obstruction lie. And he has a lot of people helping him do that. Media allies, and allies inside his government. Promoting what is essentially a big lie that he's telling over and over again. I think that's the new playing field in the weeks and months to come. Are people going to believe his big lie or not.</s>HARLOW: It's not a crime to lie to the press and the American people.</s>STELTER: Right. That's true. Sure.</s>HARLOW: No one should do it and the president certainly shouldn't do it, and his press secretary. His White House press secretary certainly shouldn't do it. Explain to the American people why it is so key what we learned from the Mueller report about what Sarah Sanders admitted to Bob Mueller and his team prosecutors when she had said, "Look the rank-and-file" -- essentially, I'm paraphrasing here at the FBI, "aren't happy with James Comey."</s>STELTER: Yes. Yes, they wanted Comey out. She said she heard from countless members of the FBI calling her up, saying, "We want Comey out." Now, obviously, that was a lie then. And she admitted it was a lie, under oath, speaking with Mueller's team. But this is one of many, many misleading statements has come out of the White House. But it's a revealing example because she's admitting to it. She's fessing up to it in the Mueller report. It's an example of how little credibility this White House has. And as we go forward, I think talking about these issues, the recognition that the president and his aides cannot be trusted. And these are just 10 of the examples on screen. Here are the examples on screen. Speaks of this larger problem going forward.</s>CAMPBELL: Can I add just a perspective here. I was inside the FBI at the time. I remember watching that press conference with my colleagues.</s>STELTER: Right.</s>CAMPBELL: As she stood there and said that the FBI didn't have confidence in the former director, my former boss. But there was another component to that. She stood at the -- at the White House podium. And said that she had personally been in contact with FBI agents, right.</s>STELTER: Yes, they were cowl her, right.</s>CAMPBELL: And it was actually a reporter that got so incredulous, he actually -- essentially, gave a one-word response. He said, "Really?" Like giving her the opportunity to back out of that. And she said, "No, there were text messages, there were e-mails, on, and on, and on. So, this wasn't a slip of the tongue as she calls it. This she was really tripling down. The last point which gets to Brian's point about the big lie is that Sarah Sanders, even after admitting to Mueller it was a lie was on Fox News tonight and said that she misspoke. But essentially, the bigger -- larger claim was true. So, she's circling back to it. It's insane.</s>STELTER: I reach out to her, Josh, for tonight. I asked her questions about this. She declined to comment.</s>HARLOW: Maybe she'll come on your show this weekend.</s>STELTER: I would love that.</s>HARLOW: All right. Gentlemen, stand by. Jennifer, Areva, stand by. We have a lot to discuss. We'll be right back