Dr. Fauci: I'm Not Going To Walk Away From This Outbreak No Matter Who's President
COOPER: Appreciate it, Randi. Thanks very much. The news continues. Want to hand it over to Chris for "CUOMO PRIME TIME." Chris?</s>CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST, CUOMO PRIME TIME: Thank you very much, Anderson. I appreciate it. I am Chris Cuomo and welcome to PRIME TIME. Literally, if this were a fight, this campaign, we are now in the last round. These three weeks, this is it. You're going to see both campaigns coming with everything they got. So, what do we see? Biden is making sure he doesn't get put in a corner, right? He's moving around the ring. He's going to the places he needs to be. His hands are up, at all times, because he believes he's ahead on points. Trump, on the other hand, knows he needs a knockout. He is going for broke. Every punch is a haymaker. He's swinging wildly. Every line is an insult. Every rally is likely to get someone sick. And you will not hear him say to put on masks, even though followers tell us they would do it, if he asked. Like I said, he's going for broke. But here's Trump's problem. Here's his problem with the analogy. He's not fighting one opponent. He's fighting two. He's swinging at Biden, but he keeps getting hit by the pandemic. America went from first to worst in terms of cases and deaths. And leadership has to be a reason why. Florida and, now, Pennsylvania, two places that Trump needs, Pennsylvania tonight, Florida last night, going back to Florida, why? They are crucial. He won them. Now, they're up for grabs, at best. The pandemic, that he is saying is no big deal, that he actually caught, and needed to get two experimental treatments, in the hospital to beat, is not only not going away, it's in full effect in both of those states. So, his rallies may have thousands cheering in his corner, but there are millions in those states who are feeling the beating from the virus and the failing economy as a consequence. Now, the irony is if Trump actually took on the pandemic that is punching him in the face, he might win the election. We would surely be in better shape. Instead, he's running away from the opponent. He's pretending it's not even a real fight for us that Coronavirus will just magically leave the ring. He says he's going to give you a big fat kiss, but he's not doing anything to get you the medicine that made him healthy again. Why isn't it for everybody? Why isn't he all-out on production of that? Why doesn't he have the wall mentality about getting us well? He thinks he's past the test of leadership, but he's not getting us the testing we need, at work, in schools with our kids. It's a mess. We can't get back to business. We can't get our kids on the right track, because we can't protect the right people the right way. But instead of throwing everything we got at the virus, he's throwing everything at the one man that you really trust when it comes to the pandemic, Fauci. He is actually once again - he didn't learn his lesson, right, that's Trump, double down on dumb - attacking Tony Fauci again for his prognostications. The President literally told us it would disappear like a miracle that we'll be down to zero cases in February. You said it affects no one, ignoring the millions of us, who have died or lost someone or been sick. It affects no one? You and your wife got it. The White House is a cluster. You're still telling us it's not worth attacking with everything we got? Look at it in terms of the numbers. 68 percent believe in Fauci. And let's be honest. That number is low because Trump keeps giving him a beating, and so do his whole emissaries over on State TV. The President's credibility has been like half that in the polls. What he should do is carry a picture of Fauci with him, show it to everybody, because saying you're with Fauci is a way better way to get votes than the flailing at everyone that you're doing. Think of this. Think about it. This is the only time I can ever think of when the challenger in an election, Biden, right, is running in support of the policies that the President's own Task Force is proposing, and the President is running against his own people's recommendations. Think about how crazy that is. Lucky for us, Fauci says, "Let him say what he wants. I'm in for the long haul."</s>DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR OF THE NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: I'm not going to walk away from this outbreak no matter who's the President.</s>CUOMO: Good! False promises of disappearing pandemics, magical economic rebounds, pretending you can only trust him, when more of his people have been forced out or indicted than anybody, including Watergate, calling himself the greatest in the ring, when he can't float or fly. He can just lie and deny. We are on the ropes, in this fight, thanks to pure Trumpery. No, I'm not making fun of the President's name. That's his game. "Trumpery" is a real word from long before Trump. It means worthless nonsense, as in all flash, no cash, all show, no go. It derives from old English, trompery, deceit, French, tromper, to deceive. This President's name could not be a better fit. He and his people like to play with mob references, right, especially when it comes to me. Well there's one that applies to him, and his desperate last round of antics. When he says he wants to go out into that crowd and give everyone the kiss, remember "The Godfather?" He's giving you a kiss, all right? It's</s>CUOMO: "YMCA." Is he dancing or is that some of the long-haul COVID symptoms I haven't seen yet? Is he all right? He's all right. 215,000 dead, he's doing his whatever, happy dance, masquerading as if you don't need masks. Not once has he done a moment of silence for all of those who have been lost, all those families, at any of his rallies. But soon enough, he's going to be done doing the talking. The fight is going to end, and soon, and he will listen to your decision because ultimately, you are the judge. So, the question for us tonight, as we begin, is what does the present tell us about where we're heading between now and this election? We have Dr. Leana Wen and David Gregory. Thank you both. Doctor, the idea that he is going to places like Florida and Pennsylvania, and saying, "We are turning the corner," not true.</s>DR. LEANA WEN, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST, FORMER BALTIMORE HEALTH COMMISSIONER, ER PHYSICIAN, PUBLIC HEALTH PROFESSOR, GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY: Not true at all because we are seeing surges all across the country. This is exactly not where we wanted to be heading into the colder months. And I look at all these rallies. Any of these events could be the next super-spreader event. And it's not even what happens so much at the event. We all know it's not good for all these people to be gathering together, not wearing masks, flouting restrictions. It's also what happens around the event, too, because these same individuals, attending the events, are probably also not following public health guidance. They're probably also going to indoor bars. And then, when they get home, they're probably not going to get quarantined and test themselves. And I just really worry about this because you can make a decision for yourself. But I don't think you should get to commit others to a sacrifice that they did not make. What about hospitals and healthcare systems and public health infrastructure? That's going to get overwhelmed and other people are not going to be able to get the medical care that they need.</s>CUOMO: Hospitalizations are on the rise. That's always the most important indicator. Quick follow, many people have optimism because he's giving it to them. "Look at me, I beat it. I feel amazing. I'm immune, they say." Nobody's saying that. Nobody told him he's immune. But that's OK. He doesn't tell the truth. But he's also not telling the truth about people being able to get access to the drugs that he got that apparently made him better, right? Is there any reason to believe that any time soon, anyone who gets sick is going to get either of the experimental treatments he had?</s>WEN: Look, Regeneron, the company that manufactured the antibody cocktail that he got, it's not even authorized for use by the FDA. And so, we are a long way off from people getting the same kind of treatments that the President got. And, by the way, we still have to do the scientific research, because an anecdote of one is not science, it's not research.</s>CUOMO: Now David, good to see you, brother. Thank you for joining us on PRIME TIME tonight. DAVID GREGORY, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST, AUTHOR, "HOW'S YOUR FAITH?": Good to see you.</s>CUOMO: The idea of him going for broke, and his main bet is, "I can beat the pandemic. I can keep people off of me of blaming me for how it is," why did he choose that as his strategy, when saying, "I'm going to take it on a 100 percent" would have been the more likely strategy?</s>GREGORY: Well you alluded to this in your "Fight" metaphor. I think he just fights. That's his one reaction. It's not a thoughtful reaction. It's just instinct for him. It's just fight whoever or whatever is coming at him. But he didn't fight the pandemic, and the virus with anything he had. Now he's fighting the idea of it. And I think he's going for something else, and I frankly think it's more desperate, even though there is a real argument there. He's basically saying Biden and other of his opponents are - want to overreact. They want to overreact to the virus. They want to shut the economy down. Today, we heard Pence say that on the stump today, that Joe Biden would shut down the economy again, and Donald Trump is opening things back up. It's the same message he makes about, "You got to find some way to live with the virus that it can't overwhelm you, it can't defeat you." He gets in his own way, but there's still an argument to be made that I think a lot of Americans agree with.</s>CUOMO: That's a good argument, by the way.</s>GREGORY: Which we got to find a way to live with this.</s>CUOMO: Yes.</s>GREGORY: And follow the rules.</s>CUOMO: Yes. I mean here's the problem.</s>CUOMO: I agree with you, David. Here's the next step I want you to take on it. I agree with you. I think there are a lot of people, who when they hear "Shut down again" they are like, "No way." I know, Dr. Wen.</s>GREGORY: Right.</s>CUOMO: I'll get to you in a second because I know you see it through a different lens. But they say, "I'm not doing that again." So, when they hear Biden say, "Yes, I'd be open to it," it frightens them. The problem is, is that that has to go hand-in-hand with seeing that the government is doing things to keep it from happening. See and that's--</s>GREGORY: Right.</s>CUOMO: --the President's problem is that where is his strategy to keep it from happening?</s>GREGORY: Right. And I don't think he has one, and I think that's the problem. We spend a lot of time talking about things that Trump could be doing. Even Mike Pence, in the debate, could defend what the Administration did to combat the virus a lot better than Trump. He knows it better, and he can get out of his own way. Trump only wants to fight. He wants to talk about personally overcoming it, how strong he feels, saying things that just don't make any sense and being a bad example, on top of it, and not using the bully pulpit to actually get people to change their behavior, and to simply follow the rules. But again, but I do think there's a lot of people, who still have their kids at home, who don't see their schools, trying to figure out how to get to yes, how to get to re-opening. You had Tony Fauci on last week. This is very confusing. I got to tell you. I follow this every day. The data are confusing about where cases are going up, where they're going down. I know that - I know that daily cases are too high, over 40,000, but there are parts of the country that are handling this virus much better than other parts. And I know the fear of our healthcare professionals and our public health specialists is that if we continue to have people letting their guard down, as it gets colder, then you're in for real trouble.</s>CUOMO: Right.</s>GREGORY: But again, I think he's trying to exploit the idea that he'd say, "Look, we're doing the best we can. It's getting better, and the other guys are just going to shut everything down."</s>CUOMO: Right.</s>GREGORY: And that gets some people afraid.</s>CUOMO: See, the problem is, is that the roles are reversed, Dr. Wen. Biden should be making the case that Trump is making, which is "He's going to screw it all up. Hey, look how bad it is. This is really, you know," and instead, you hear Trump saying, "No, no, everything - everything is, you know, it's fine. Biden is a panicker." He's the one in charge. He's the one, who has to own the reality. He's trying to make Biden own the reality, in the eventuality. Now, what that gets us to is strategy. And you and I talked the other night with somebody coming at the data from a different direction, which is this mode of selective protection. Some people need more protection than others. Certain areas are dealing with it better than others because of their population and how they're doing it. We don't have any central plan. So, how do we replicate what's working in some places in the places where it isn't working with no central planning?</s>WEN: Yes, that's a really good question, Chris. This is what happens when all along we know that we have not had a national strategy. There have been pieces of a national strategy, as in there's actually a good plan around vaccines, so let's give the Trump Administration credit for Operation Warp Speed, although there have been some problems about politicizing that process. But still, there have been some good work around vaccine and therapeutics. Some initial work now being done around testing, although, I will say that getting 150 million tests out, that sounds like a lot, but that's a press release. That's still not a national strategy. And now we're seeing what happens when basically we're playing whack- a-mole across the country. We're seeing one part of the country do well, but then another part of the country becomes a problem. And then that does OK, then another part becomes a problem. And so, I do think that having a national plan makes sense, but these principles, upon which the national strategy is based, we actually know what to do at this point. We need to stop talking about public health as somehow the enemy of the economy, or the enemy of school re- opening. If we can just say something like, "Look, wearing a mask is what will allow us to keep our businesses open," or "Let's focus on restricting small gatherings, informal gatherings," that's what will allow our students to get back in school, if we don't also have play dates and birthday parties at the same time. I mean, we can take sensible steps that other countries have taken, that do allow us, I think, to David's point, of getting life back to normal, as much as we can, and continue to socialize, not be isolated, reduce the burden on mental health, on the mental health system, and actually try to get back to normal, but with few of these public health strategies that we know are effective.</s>CUOMO: David, last word to you.</s>GREGORY: Well I just I agree with so much. I do think part of the problems with Trump not taking this seriously, and being in denial, and then being political, it was your point. He should be holding Tony Fauci so tight so that they're shoulder-to- shoulder, because then the American public can see, "Well I may have my problems with Trump," but they have been shoulder-to-shoulder in fighting this virus. That has not been the case. The President has denied, he's lied, and he's been inconsistent, and hasn't even followed his own advice. The strategy and the key for Biden, at this point, is to recognize how hard it's going to be, if he becomes President, and that he's got to really paint a picture of how he leads, and how it would be different, under his leadership. Because the reality is that the reaction to Trump is also strong. And you see it with schools. There's a lot of schools who are in communities, like Washington D.C., that's doing a good job. And people are following the rules. And they are still so risk-averse to opening schools, in large part because their teachers don't want to do it, and a lot of that is reaction to some of the politics. "So, if Trump says, "Reopen," then we should stay closed." There's all of this that's coursing through the response to the virus that is a reflection of how it's been politicized, and it's - and it's really unfortunate.</s>CUOMO: Three weeks, and the pandemic will tell the story. We've been doing this a long time. I'm actually older than David, but I look up to him as a journalist, because we have never seen a president whose fate hinges on a situation that he is refusing to confront. And this is the first time we've seen it. And we'll see how it plays out, and soon. Dr. Wen, thank you. D. Gregory, as always, love you thank you.</s>GREGORY: Love you, you too.</s>CUOMO: Big day on the Hill. SCOTUS nominee Amy Coney Barrett just made it through an intense round of grilling by Democrats. How did she do? Look, she did the way they always do, OK? We have one of the senators here who pressed her about one word that the Judge used more than once. Senator Hirono is here, next.</s>TEXT: CUOMO PRIME TIME.