Anti-Gay Laws, Violence in Russia
COOPER: In a moment, the debate over boycotting the Winter Olympics in Sochi, Russia because of Russia's stance on gay rights. First, what's at stake with or without the winter games in the Russian city of Volgograd. This May a young man's badly beaten body was found. His skull was crushed. He'd been raped with beer bottles, stripped and dumped in a local courtyard. Killed, according to one suspect, because he was gay. Something his family denies. Such is the stigma. It's a dangerous time to be gay in Russia or even to speak out for gay rights. Protesters across the country routinely beaten, sometimes by anti-gay thugs as police stand back and watch. Sometimes the police themselves dos the beating. And now in addition to the physical danger, there is a legal dimension. Russian President Putin recently signing legislation amending the country's Child Protection Laws outlining, quote, "The propagandizing of non-traditional sexual relations among minors." Officials saying they are not discriminating against gays, only protecting children presumably from information about gays. The law prompting calls for a boycott of the Olympics or some kind of protest by athletes attending the Olympics, something the International Olympic Committee today said they would penalize and Russian authorities say they would punish under the law. Others, though, including one of Russia's leading news anchors, wants to go even further.</s>DMITRY KISELEV, RUSSIAN NEWS ANCHOR: I believe it is not enough to impose fines on gays for engaging in the propaganda of homosexuality among adolescents. We need to ban them from donating blood and sperm, and if they die in car accidents, we need to bury their hearts in the ground or burn them as they're unsuitable for the aiding of anyone's life.</s>COOPER: That anchor later said he was just talking about organ transplants. You can judge for yourself. Phil Black is in Moscow reporting on the story. He joins us now. Phil, we've seen the images, we've heard horror stories how gay people are treated in Russia. Is there much outrage within Russia itself?</s>PHIL BLACK, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: No, Anderson, there isn't. This has long been a socially conservative society, one with little tolerance for open homosexuality. So there has always been violence against gay people that is disputed by some politicians here. Difficult to draw a link between recent violence and this law, but gay people here very strongly believe it sends a message, reinforces a message that impunity -- there is an impunity when it comes to violence and humiliation towards them.</s>COOPER: And we're seeing these videos, you know, of one or two protesters who will put up a rainbow flag in support of gay and lesbian people in Russia being hauled off by police, sometimes beaten by crowds or even beaten by police. Phil, how likely is it that gay athletes or athletes who show any support for equal rights for gay and lesbians could actually be prosecuted?</s>BLACK: It is difficult to say because the law itself doesn't specifically define what gay propaganda is. But you're right in theory it could include simply carrying a rainbow flag, displays of affection, anywhere these things take place publicly, and could possibly be seen by children. That is, in theory, we believe a breach of the law. So if that happens during the games with athletes or visitors showing support for Russia's gay community, that it then comes down to Russian authorities to determine what to do under those circumstances. And it's a challenge for them because they want their laws to be respected, they want their sovereignty to be respected, but they also want -- desperately want these Olympic Games to be considered a success -- Anderson.</s>COOPER: Is there any reason, Phil, to believe that Russian officials will in any way ratchet down these anti-gay laws?</s>BLACK: Not really. No. The law does have tremendous support in this country. And one of the theories is its key purpose was to -- was to secure the support of the country's conservative majority. There's been a lot of pressure on the Russian government but the Russian government doesn't respond well to pressure, particularly from the outside, doesn't like to back down, little reason to believe it will in this case.</s>COOPER: Phil Black reporting from Moscow. Phil, thanks. Some perspective now from Greg Louganis, perhaps the greatest diver America has ever produced. The first double gold medallist in 56 years, one of the youngest medallists in 1976 and in 1988 one of the oldest. He is of course a legend. He's also gay and has some ideas on how he would protest if he were in Russia for the winter games. We spoke earlier tonight.</s>COOPER: Greg, obviously, you're an Olympic gold medallist. You're also gay. What are your thoughts about what's happening in Russia right now, particularly the talk of boycotting the Olympics?</s>GREG LOUGANIS, OLYMPIC DIVING GOLD MEDALIST: Well, I'm not in favor of boycotting. I mean I lived through two boycotts. Few athletes have that opportunity. You know, there is a short window of opportunity for young kids who train their entire lives for this. Whether they be gay or straight. You know, I was in competitions where, you know, I was called faggot and, you know, there is the whole fag buster campaign. You know, there's a lot of things that, you know, I had to deal with. The diving team, when we would travel internationally, it was very difficult sometimes because nobody wanted to room with a fag. And I would usually ended up rooming with one of the coaches. It's a very small team, small community.</s>COOPER: No one --</s>LOUGANIS: I was out for my friends and family.</s>COOPER: No one on your own team wanted to room with you?</s>LOUGANIS: Yes. Usually, I would find one person on the team that was, you know, secure enough in their own sexuality that, you know, they knew it wasn't -- it wasn't an issue.</s>COOPER: There have been a number of columnists here in the states who suggested that the athletes, you know, on the U.S. team carry rainbow flags or other athletes carry rainbow flags. Do you think that's a good idea, though? I think it's against IOC rules.</s>LOUGANIS: Yes. It's a really tough call and you know, unfortunately, the IOC is not -- not following their own charter and in their charter, principal six is anti discrimination against, you know, the entire Olympic movement is about not discriminating, and here they are being very select in what their -- what they are enforcing. And they have come forward to say that they would take action toward those athletes who do demonstrate and it's really unfortunate that the IOC is not living up to, you know, they are talking the talk but they're not walking the walk.</s>COOPER: So you wouldn't wear a rainbow flag or wave a rainbow flag or try to make some sort of a statement while competing?</s>LOUGANIS: I probably would.</s>COOPER: A rainbow Speedo.</s>LOUGANIS: Thanks.</s>COOPER: We're now with Richard Socarides. He served as White House senior advisor during the Clinton administration dealing primarily with gay and lesbian civil rights issues. What do you make, A, of what's happening in Russia right now and the idea of a boycott?</s>RICHARD SOCARIDES, WRITER, THENEWYORKER.COM: Well, I think it's a big story. It's probably going to be the biggest international gay rights story we've ever seen, and I think we very much have to keep all the options on the table right now, including a boycott. I think principally now the focus should be on trying to get the IOC to move the Olympics somewhere else. I know that's a dramatic -- would be a dramatic step. But --</s>COOPER: Yes. I mean, logistically, is that even possible?</s>SOCARIDES: I mean, anything is possible. I mean, we have to, though, take a strong stand that any country that violates human rights like this, targeting a population for mistreatment, violence, even killings, any country that treats a population like this can't be allowed to host an international sporting event where the idea is supposed to be welcome to everybody.</s>COOPER: Do you think in the future, regardless of what happens in Russia, in the future that the Olympic Committee should take into account a country's treatment of minorities?</s>SOCARIDES: I mean, I think they have to. I think it's part of their charter. And in this instance they seem to have been asleep at the switch for not doing so.</s>COOPER: And their charter does not specifically talk about, you know, being against discrimination of sexual -- based on sexual orientation or gender identity. Do you think that should be rewritten?</s>SOCARIDES: I think it should be added but certainly their charter I think covers it in spirit. Now it talks broadly about non- discrimination, about the Olympics being about sports. This notion that they would now punish athletes or anybody for protesting, even if we go there, is also ridiculous. I don't think they're going to -- I think people -- if the Olympics -- if the Olympics are actually held in Sochi and the Russians don't change this law, there are going to be massive protests. The Russians will then have to decide whether they're going to arrest these protesters. It is going to be a big mess and a huge story.</s>COOPER: And if it is in Russia, do you think athletes should carry a rainbow flag or rainbow pin or do something?</s>SOCARIDES: I think if it's in Russia and people decide to participate, they must protest this mistreatment of a class of people and this violence that is being perpetrated by this country.</s>COOPER: Do you think if this was -- if Russia had passed laws outlawing the propagandizing of black culture or propagandizing of Jewish faith, there would be more outcry than there is about gays and lesbians?</s>SOCARIDES: Well, you know, remarkably -- I think obviously yes. Now there would be, you know, if they -- if they were targeting women for mistreatment or if they were targeting a racial minority. They are also -- you know, they are targeting other communities. There is a story in the "New York Times" today about their targeting of the immigrant community.</s>COOPER: Right.</s>SOCARIDES: But, you know, remarkably, this is remarkably like what we saw in 1936 with the Olympics in Berlin and Germany, when Hitler said that he would suspend the anti-Jewish laws during the 1936 Olympics and of course, you know, we -- he suspended the laws. They took down the anti-Jewish signs. They cleaned things up for a little while.</s>COOPER: Right --</s>SOCARIDES: And then of course -- of course, most people -- you know, people participated in those Olympics and then we know what happened after that.</s>COOPER: A lot more to come on this, no doubt. Six months before the Olympics. Richard, appreciate it. Thanks for being on.</s>SOCARIDES: Thanks, Anderson.</s>COOPER: Coming up, breaking news tonight. That hostage situation happening right now at a bank in northeastern Louisiana. The gunman has been holding three people hostage for more than six hours. I'll speak with the head of the Louisiana State Police coming up next. Also tonight, what changed Dr. Sanjay Gupta's mind about medical marijuana? There's been a tremendous response to a documentary. I'll speak with him coming up.