Obama Administration Pushes Congress on Syria; Calls for Evidence and Facts on Chemical Attack; Continuing Coverage of the G20 Summit
MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN CO-ANCHOR: Welcome back, everyone, to AROUND THE WORLD. The Obama administration pushing hard to get Congress backing for that military action in Syria.</s>SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CO-ANCHOR: Many senators, however, and representatives from both parties, they are not yet convinced. And one Republican, Susan Collins of Maine, had this to say earlier.</s>SENATOR SUSAN COLLINS (R), MAINE: I have not yet reached the conclusion on how I will vote. These briefings have been helpful, but I still have many questions about the wisdom of the president's action.</s>HOLMES: Now this is a question we've been asking every day since U.S. officials claim to have evidence, irrefutable evidence, that the chemical weapons were used by the Assad regime against civilians in Syria. That question, of course, is when do we get to see that evidence, you?</s>MALVEAUX: And we've heard the president talk about this. He uses words like "high confidence." We've heard Secretary of State John Kerry say he has seen proof beyond a reasonable doubt. I want you to listen to this. This is former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld on CNN this morning. He had his own problems, as we know, when it comes to intelligence versus facts before the invaded, of course, Iraq.</s>DONALD RUMSFELD, FORMER DEFENSE SECRETARY: If intelligence were a fact, it would be called a fact and not intelligence. And I think when Colin Powell went before the United Nations with George Tenet, the director of intelligence, talked about the intelligence they had, and in great detail, and then it turned out that stockpiles were not found, that people were cautious and began to recognize that intelligence is intelligence and not necessarily a fact. But I don't think that's what's going on here.</s>HOLMES: Now let's get somebody in here now to help break this down. Hillary Mann Leveret, the Middle East expert, also former staffer in both the Clinton and Bush administrations. Rumsfeld's words reminds us that we do need to see this evidence, don't they? I imagine that a lot of it is they ought to be revealing how they got the evidence, but if you're going to have military action, isn't it something not just we but the United Nations and Russia for that matter should see?</s>PROFESSOR HILLARY MANN LEVERETT, AMERICAN UNIVERSITY: Yes. And former Secretary Rumsfeld is correct in alluding to the presentation that Secretary of State, then Secretary of State Powell made to the U.N. Powell showed the world the satellite pictures. He showed the -- he played for the world the intercepts, the audio of the Iraqis. But it all turned out to be wrong. And, in fact, we interrogated, the U.S. Army interrogated those Iraqis that we had caught on the intercepts after we invaded Iraq and found out that much of that so-called intelligence wasn't just mistaken, it was manufactured. It was made up. And the Iraqis that we interrogated on those intercepts told us, they're now in documentary films, saying they can't believe how distorted their comments were, how much they were taken out of context. It is eerily similar to what we're being shown or not shown even on Syria. It is astonishing in some ways that Secretary Kerry is showing us much less than Secretary Powell did and asking us just to take his word for it because he says it is irrefutable when, in fact, there are a lot of indicia that should make anybody question this.</s>MALVEAUX: So --</s>MANN LEVERETT: There was an alleged attack back in March when Russians, who are on the ground, did their own analysis, an 88-page analysis from that attack in March and they gave it to the U.N. Secretary General. They found two very important things. One was that the Sarin gas or the gas used in March was probably not military or industrial, but probably homemade. They also found that the delivery devices, the rockets for that gas used in March were also not military and industrial and probably homemade. The consequence of that, if that is true, and if that was true in this attack, that means that maybe it wasn't the Assad government. Maybe it was either a rogue group within the Syrian military or even the rebels themselves, rebels openly aligned with al Qaeda. I'm sorry, but this is critically important. A lot of these groups are openly aligned with al Qaeda and, if they, in fact, are responsible for gassing hundreds or thousands of people, the idea that they're going to stop in Syria is the definition of insanity.</s>MALVEAUX: So, Professor, if I can, when you listen to the former secretary, Rumsfeld, it is maddening to hear the parsing of the language here when it comes to intelligence, facts and evidence. Most Americans just to want get to the bottom line. What do they have? What do they know? What do you need to know? What kind of evidence would you ask of Secretary Kerry, of this administration, if the president goes before the American people and says this is what I know? What do you need as proof if in fact that it was Assad who was responsible, the regime itself, responsible for the chemical attacks?</s>MANN LEVERETT: I love my country. I love the United States. I never would have thought that the former president, George Bush, and his administration would have lied to me and to the American people, but that's what happened. So this time around, there is a U.N. investigation. Investigators from the United Nations have gone in on the ground. They're now -- they've taken samples, they've done an analysis and they're now trying to put it all together and compile a report. It may take two weeks, but President Obama assured us we don't need to act right away. We can wait a few weeks. We can even wait a month. Why not wait for an impartial U.N. investigation? It is very strange that this administration has, from the beginning, been trying to dismiss and undermine the U.N. administration just like the Bush administration did for the U.N. inspectors in Iraq. Let them do their work, let them present it, and if they come up with conclusive evidence, then we can go from there, We can have a much more rational debate with probably more allies with us than this go- it-alone approach that Obama has adopted.</s>HOLMES: All right. We'll have to leave it there. Interesting that point of view, too, and good to have you on, Professor Hillary Mann Leverett, the Middle East expert and former staffer on the Bush and Clinton administrations. Thanks so much.</s>MALVEAUX: One other important thing she says, the U.N. report is not going to actually determine who is responsible for the chemical attack. They're only going to determine whether or not that actually happened. It is going to be up to -- on the onus of the Obama administration and the intelligence they have to make that link and to make that case.</s>HOLMES: And often the delivery systems and the types of munitions used to deliver it might give a clue as to who did it. And the great fear of a lot of people is, as it is being quoted, the U.S. doesn't wind up being al Qaeda's air force, going in and helping the enemies of our enemies, if you like. So, yeah, it's a very complex situation.</s>MALVEAUX: And, of course, there is going to be a lot of movement on Syria over the next week as well. There is a bill authorizing a limited military strike that heads to the full Senate after clearing the Senate foreign relations committee yesterday. Now the president is expected to lobby for that when he returns from the G-20 summit in Russia. He is actually coming back tomorrow.</s>HOLMES: Yeah, now when Congress finishes its summer recess on Monday, check the calendar there, both the House and the Senate are expected to debate and vote on the measure. Also next week that Russian delegation we reported on here on AROUND THE WORLD, they're going to be coming to Capitol Hill to lobby against a strike.</s>MALVEAUX: And the U.N. report on Syria's suspected chemical weapons attack, that, too, also expected to be released soon. Now, this is a place that people say is so dangerous, people cannot stay during the night. We're talking about the 12-mile zone around Japan's crippled nuclear plant. We're actually going to take you inside.