Bob Woodward Book; Trump Says Bob Woodward Has A Lot Of Credibility Problems
DON LEMON, CNN HOST: This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon. A little past 11:00 here on the East Coast. Live with all the new developments for you tonight. We're talking about journalist Bob Woodward dropping a book which has the west wing in damage control right now. Sara Sanders, calls the book entitled "Fear," fabricated stories by a disgruntle employees, but Woodward, not only conducted hundreds of interviews, he says he recorded nearly all of them and what's been released so far, from the book shows that the President's inner circle, those in there, are worried that he is in danger to national security. So let's discuss now. I want to bring in now, CNN Political Analyst, Carl Bernstein, CNN Global Affairs, Max Boot and CNN Presidential Historian, Timothy Naftali. Good evening to all of you. it is going to be a very heavy call tonight, because as you know, Bernstein and Woodward, depending on who you're talking to, so Carl I've got to start with you because a couple of questions, no one knows hi, better, his work better than you. Many administration officials are being quoted in this book, right, and here's what he said tonight. He gave an interview. He said, he told the Daily Caller, it's just another bad book --</s>CARL BERNSTEIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: The President.</s>LEMON: The President said this, yes. He is a lot of credibility. The President says, not Bob. He has a lot of credibility problems. And he is speculating that his statement could have come from -- where they came from is just as disgruntled employees just made it up. It could just be made up by the author. Talk to me about how Woodward works, his methodology. I know you want to talk about that.</s>BERNSTEIN: Well, the methodology actually goes back to the Watergate reporting, particularly to the final days of the book he we wrote about Nixon's last year, in office. In which we went to literally 100, 200 people, tape recorded all our interview, the major participants, those closest to the President. And what emerges and what's so important about this book is that it's not about using the word idiot. It's not about a phrase here or there. This is a disturbing narrative scene after scene after scene of those closest to the President of the United States in his White House and administration saying we must save the country from the President of the United States.</s>LEMON: What about --</s>BERNSTEIN: Don, that is nonsense. It's not a book about palace intrigue. This is a book about those closest and most intimate in the president's inner circle of governance. Saying their job as they see it, is to save the country from the President of the United States' from his recklessness, from his lying, from his ignorance. And now to hear these denials knowing the methodology and knowing how Bob goes about his meticulous reporting and listening to the President talk about, well, maybe Bob is a Democratic operative. Look, Woodward has written books about Democratic Presidents that Democratic Presidents have hated. I've written a book about Hillary Clinton that Hillary Clinton has hated. The idea of reporters as Democratic operatives here, this is a book by the preeminent reporter in America using the methodology that has given us the history, Tim Naftali can tell you. We know what we know about the Presidency's of the United States going back for 45 years, because of Bob Woodward. More than any other thing in these books have held up book after book after book is calls you such a great --</s>LEMON: So, let me get into Timothy picture it here.</s>TIMOTHY NAFTALI, CNN PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: Yes, I will.</s>LEMON: So, let us get into -- tale a closer look at the book. OK, because the President's closest advisor describes him -- this is according to Woodward, the White House Chief of Staff, John Kelly, idiot, unhinged. Defense Secretary, James Mattis, a fifth or sixth grader. Former Secretary of State, Rex Tillerson, f-ing more, and the former Economic Adviser, Gary Cohn, a professional liar. Former personally attorney, John Dowd, an f-ing liar. How alarming is this?</s>NAFTALI: Two things, this is alarming. I just want to say, if you want to test the Woodward approach, I would like to say it was the Woodward and Bernstein approach, because you're sitting there, so, I had an occasion to do this, go and look at their interviews for the final days at the University of Texas and then you can say how they've built the book. This is really damning because Woodward is moving the story beyond where Wolf and Whipple took it. And let me tell you where it's different, Mattis is in this story. To my mind, the biggest deal that I've read so far is we're hearing, if not from the Secretary of Defense because he is in awfully quiet, but from people close enough to him that Woodward is confident that he has a sense of what Mattis is thinking. Mattis is playing a role I believe in this administration similar to the role that Melvin Laird played in the Nixon administration. He is slow walking things, he is calming down the national security state because the President cannot be relied on to make smart national security or defense decisions. So one of the big windows Woodward appears to have opened in this case is the window to the DOD, especially to Mattis.</s>BERNSTEIN: And Tillerson, and the assistant to the President, keep going through the list.</s>LEMON: Yes. Well, listen, let's talk more. Max, I want to bring you in. I mean, in the staff meeting, this is what the Chief of Staff John Kelly said in the book, again according to the book, he is an idiot. It is pointless to try to convince him of anything, he is gone off the rails. We're in crazy town. I don't even know why any of us are here. This is the worst job I ever had. OK, so then Kelly released a statement saying the idea that I called the President an idiot is not true. Adding the claimed, it's another pathetic attempt to smear people close to the President Trump and distract from the administration's many successes. He only said, I didn't -- he said one part --</s>MAX BOOT, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: I mean you have to parse those denials pretty closely. So, he denies calling him idiot, maybe he called him a moron like Rex Tillerson. I mean, clearly when you get into a battle of credibility between Bob Woodward and this White House Bob Woodward wins hands down. Because obviously going back to his base reporting with Carl Bernstein and I'm sure he learned everything that he knows from Carl, he has a 50-year track record of credibility of getting things right. On the other hand you have President Trump, just today, "The Washington Post" came out with the latest fact checker that would determine that President Trump lies an average eight times a day. This is the most mendacious White House ever. They lie more than the Nixon White House did. They have negative credibility, less than zero credibility, so it's just hard to take on faith anything they say and denying anything in this book especially because it paints a consistent picture if you read like what Michael Wolff (ph) said or Omarosa said, it's very, very similar where people around Trump have contempt for him. They view him as an idiot, they view him as a liar. That is a very consistent picture that Bob Woodward is not making that up.</s>LEMON: But it is also different to, I mean, the credibility --</s>BOOT: Yes, right, you know, Woodward adds details.</s>LEMON: Can I ask you specific, because I think this is important, you said you were telling him to go down the line and name all these people. This one is from Gary Cohn and this is one that really illustrates a level, I think of distrust for President Trump. Where reports that Trump was about to sign a letter that would have ended a critical trade agreement with South Korea, and Gary Cohn thought that it was -- it could have jeopardize top secret program to detect North Korean missile launches. And here is what he said he did next. He said, I stole it from his desk, I wouldn't let him see it. He is never going to see that document. I've got to protect the country. And according to Woodward, the former Staff Secretary Rob Porter also stole documents from the President, so he wouldn't see them. A third of my job, he says, was trying to react to some of the really dangerous ideas that he had and try to give him reasons to believe that maybe they weren't such good ideas. Have you ever heard of a situations like that?</s>BERNSTEIN: Only in the final days of the Nixon presidency when those around Richard Nixon were afraid of what me might do because of the pressure he was under, but what Gary Cohn concluded was that the President of the United States is a threat to the national security of the United States, that is what aide after aide, principal after principal in this administration is saying in his book and the people who would recognize the truth of this book better than any others are Republicans on Capitol Hill. Because they have been sources for Bob Woodward in previous books. They know that Bob Woodward doesn't make these things up. So the question now is are some of the Republicans on Capitol Hill going to finally put national interest above partisan interest and call General Kelly in there for an executive session or Kelly resign and have some principle and say I need to tell the Congress of the United States in executive session what it is that this President has done, what he hasn't done, whether or not he is a threat to the national security of the United States. Because that, if you read this book it is very clear that Kelly believes that the President of the United States is a threat to the national security of the United States.</s>LEMON: Well, that was my question.</s>BERNSTEIN: So enough of this nonsense from Sarah Sanders. Let's get down to what this is really about.</s>LEMON: That was my question. Why do they continue to do this and standby --</s>NAFTALI: Because of what's happening in the Senate today. I am convinced that a lot of this is a bargain -- is to bargain. What they're doing, these Republicans that who have decided not to tell the truth about --</s>LEMON: Or not to have a backbone.</s>NAFTALI: Here's the thing, Republicans used to believe in free trade. And the Cohn anecdotes are so powerful, because they're showing that there were people in the White House, Republicans were trying to stand up for Republican values and the President has no interest in those, but here's what I think is going on, they have made a fustian bargain. They have decided, we want Kavanaugh, we want as many Conservatives on the court. We are going to do this for a long term and if we have to put up with short-term crazy town, we will do it for the long term. I think that is what is going on.</s>LEMON: I got a lot sure ahead of me, but I hate it when people come on and say, whoa his supporters won't matter as if that makes a difference, you know if someone is lying and incompetent. Most supporters don't matter. Well, a lot of people who support people who do the wrong thing.</s>BOOT: Right, I mean there's no question that Trump has done a pretty clever job of inoculating his supporters against believing the very credible reporting coming out about the craziness in the White House, because he is attacked the fake news media, he has painted the media as the liars, and yes he maintains 78 percent support among Republicans which is also part of the reason why Republicans on Capitol Hill are too cowardly to turn on him, but let's remember that Republicans are only about 26 percent of the country and in the country at large people have woken up to what's going on. Where you had the Washington Post, ABC News poll last week, which showed that Trump had a 60 percent negative rating. More people approved of impeaching him than approved of his job performance. So, you know, he is with this nonstop stream of falsehoods and attacks on the media, he is managing to keep his base together, but he is not convincing the rest of the country. And if that trend holds in November, he is going to pay a big price in the midterm election.</s>LEMON: That has got to be the last word. Thank you gentlemen, I appreciate it. When we come back. Another shocking revelation from Bob Woodward's book. Why President Trump called his speech denouncing white supremacists after Charlottesville, the biggest mistake he is made.