Michael Cohen's Testimony on Pardon Under Scrutiny; Nielsen Grilled by Dems Over Family Separations, National Emergency Declaration; Dems Struggle to Calm Uproar Over Anti-Semitism; GOP Senator Reveals She was Raped While in the Military; Trump Faces Major Policy Failures.
REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA), CHAIRMAN, INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: He has provided additional documents the members found enormously productive session.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There were several changes made, including the message of the length of time that the Trump Tower Moscow project remained alive.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everything that Mr. Cohen says, you have to look through the prism of is he telling us the truth?</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There will be a vote. There's no place in this world for anti-Semitism.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We want to make sure that we don't allow Republicans and others to divide us as a caucus.</s>MAX BOOT, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: He is legitimating anti- Semitism in America, but at the same time I'm afraid that the Democrats are giving up the moral high ground.</s>ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Alisyn Camerota and John Berman.</s>JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to our viewers in the United States and all around the world. This is NEW DAY. It's Thursday, March 7, 6 a.m. here in New York. And I do think that we need to disclose that it was empanada morning here. If we don't tell them, they're going to find out eventually.</s>ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: And you know what happens with empanada morning? It's a real high at first, and then you crash somewhere during the show, so we'll keep you posted.</s>BERMAN: Like I said, if we didn't tell them, they would have found out eventually. New this morning, in an unrelated -- or possibly unrelated note, pardon me or is it pardon you? Michael Cohen had his former lawyer talk to the Trump team, including Rudy Giuliani about a possible pardon. That's according to Michael Cohen's current lawyer, confirming reports overnight in "The Wall Street Journal" and "Washington Post." "The Post" also reports that Cohen says he spoke himself to the president's lawyer, Jay Sekulow, about a pardon. Sekulow denies this. Now, there are at least two significant issues this raises. No. 1, how does this align with Cohen's testimony last week that he never asked for a pardon? And No. 2, was the Trump team open for business when it came to the power of the pardon? If there was a dangle, how deep was the dangle, as it were?</s>CAMEROTA: You know I like to debate a dangle.</s>BERMAN: I know you do.</s>CAMEROTA: All right. Meanwhile, CNN has learned that Michael Cohen handed over new documents to the House Intelligence Committee yesterday showing edits to the false statement that he delivered to Congress in 2017 about the Trump Moscow tower project. Cohen told lawmakers that one of the president's lawyers edited his testimony. But, for some reason, Cohen's lawyer, Lanny Davis, said that Cohen himself authored the false line. "The New York Times" reports some of the changes appear to play down how much Ivanka Trump knew about the project. This is complicated, so CNN's Joe Johns is live at the White House to unpack it all for us. Hi, Joe.</s>JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Alisyn. You know, these allegations about dangling a pardon are potentially explosive, because one of the things at the heart of the concept of political corruption is offering a thing of value, like a pardon, in exchange for an official act. So this is all about who said what and when? What was their intent and can they prove it?</s>JOHNS (voice-over): New questions about Michael Cohen's congressional testimony coming after a second closed-door hearing before the House Intelligence Committee.</s>MICHAEL COHEN, FORMER LAWYER FOR DONALD TRUMP: I believe they're happy. I'm here to cooperate and will continue to cooperate.</s>JOHNS: "The Washington Post" reporting that Cohen told the committee he discussed a pardon with President Trump's lawyers, Jay Sekulow and Rudy Giuliani. But the details of that conversation remain unclear. Sekulow flatly denying that the discussion occurred. "The Wall Street Journal" reporting that after the FBI raided Cohen's properties last year, he directed his attorney to explore possibilities of a pardon with Giuliani and the president's other lawyers. Giuliani telling CNN that he never offered anyone a pardon. Both reports raising questions about whether Cohen misled Congress in public testimony last week.</s>COHEN: I have never asked for, nor would I accept a pardon from President Trump.</s>JOHNS: Lanny Davis insisting to CNN that his comment does not contradict Cohen's testimony, saying Cohen directed his attorney to discuss a pardon with Mr. Trump's attorneys when they were in a joint defense agreement. Davis claims that Cohen was referring to the period after the collapse of that agreement during last week's testimony. Multiple sources tell CNN that Cohen also provided the committee with documents showing edits to the false written statement he delivered to Congress in 2017 about the timing of negotiations over the Trump Tower Moscow project. Last week Cohen testified that Mr. Trump's lawyer made changes to the statement.</s>COHEN: There were several changes that were made, including how we were going to handle that message. Which was --</s>REP. ELIJAH CUMMINGS (D-MD), CHAIRMAN, OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE: Were you finished?</s>COHEN: Yes, the message, of course, being the length of time that the Trump Tower Moscow project stayed and remained alive.</s>JOHNS: Davis tells CNN that Cohen authored the line lying about when discussions of the project ended, but a key question remains whether any of the lawyers who signed off on the statement knew it was false.</s>JOHNS: Now, Jay Sekulow put out a statement last week, denying that any of the president's lawyers edited or changed Cohen's statement regarding the Trump Tower negotiations. But even if they did, lawyers deal with the information their clients give them; and both the president and Michael Cohen were on the record making public statements about those negotiations that were later found to be false -- Alisyn.</s>CAMEROTA: All right, Joe. Thanks so much for explaining all of that. Let's discuss it with Jennifer Rodgers. She's a former federal prosecutor and CNN legal analyst. Jennifer, help us understand this, because I would think that most defendants in Michael Cohen's situation would ask their old friend the president for a pardon, that would be a starting point. So why is this one so legally significant?</s>JENNIFER RODGERS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, you're right. It's not uncommon to kind of kind of look for all of your options, right? But if the president -- and this is bigger picture. It's not just Cohen, remember. We're talking about Manafort, Flynn, other people who were at risk of cooperating against the president. If he is offering pardons to people, that could be two things. It could be obstruction of justice, right? Because you're trying to convince a potential witness against you not to become a witness against you. And it could be quid pro quo bribery. So we're talking about two kind of separate criminal problems the president could find himself in. And remember, Bill Barr, the new A.G., who is a staunch defender of the president, says he can't be convicted of obstruction of justice for firing the FBI director, did say that he could be on the hook for obstruction if he was offering pardons in exchange for the person not testifying.</s>CAMEROTA: So you see more legal jeopardy for the president and his team if there was talk of a pardon than Michael Cohen, though Michael Cohen would have -- it would have meant that he lied about it in the public testimony last week if he approached the president's team about a pardon. And he could do more jail time?</s>RODGERS: So here's the problem. This is the problem with perjury generally speaking. When we were talking way back about Jeff Sessions' testimony, Matthew Whitaker's testimony more recently. It has to be a very clear and clean lie, demonstrably untrue. So when Michael Cohen says, "I did not ask for a pardon from President Trump," as far as we know now, even if all of these allegations are proven to be true, it's not a false statement to say that. You cannot charge him for -- you know, with perjury for that. Would he take a credibility hit if it turned out that, in fact, he did have some outreach and he said he -- you know, yes, probably, but it's not going to be perjury.</s>CAMEROTA: Does it matter who made the overture to whom? Does it matter which -- which team, the president's team or Cohen's team, first floated the idea of a pardon?</s>RODGERS: It does. I mean, if it's -- if it's Cohen's team and the Trump's team is like, "Listen, we're not counting about that at all. You shouldn't count on that at all. Go do what you need to do," then yes, they don't have have any jeopardy from that. But it really depends. I mean, a lot about obstruction is the kind of wink-wink, nod-nod: "We can't talk about pardons right now, but we hope you'll stay strong with us, Michael." You know, that sort of thing could certainly be obstruction.</s>CAMEROTA: How are we ever going to find out?</s>RODGERS: Well, prosecutors, I think, already know. Right? They've sat down exhaustively with Michael Cohen. Remember, they had Flynn on board, had no concerns about his cooperation. So I think he's told them everything that he knows. They were cooperating with Manafort for a long time. So I think they know all there is to know. I think Congress is now getting to the bottom of it with all the time they're spending with Michael Cohen. It's just us, the public, who are in the dark.</s>CAMEROTA: Jennifer Rodgers, thank you very much for explaining all of this -- John.</s>BERMAN: All right. Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen under oath and under attack from Democrats in a contentious House hearing. The secretary defended the president's immigration policies and his national emergency declaration. Our Jessica Schneider is live in Washington with the details -- Jessica.</s>JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, John. Secretary Nielsen stressed the administration's stance that this is a true emergency and not just a manufactured crisis. And to do that, Nielsen cited the large numbers of illegal immigrants crossing the border just last month: more than 70,000. And she said if those numbers stay on track, close to 1 million migrants could try to cross the border by the end of the year. That wouldn't be record breaking, but it could be the most since 2006. But Democrats, they weren't satisfied with the numbers. They grilled the homeland security secretary, demanding answers that she wasn't always able to give.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We all know the results of the policy and the compassionate or lack of compassion.</s>KIRSTJEN NIELSEN, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: Ma'am, it's not a policy. It's the law. We enforce the law.</s>SCHNEIDER (voice-over): Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen defending the zero-tolerance policy at the border and dodging questions over its intent.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You knew that that policy was going to result in children having to be taken away from their parents. That's a policy. You should admit it.</s>NIELSEN: The consequence -- the consequence of any adult going to jail in this country is they're separated from their child. That wasn't the point of it. The point was to increase prosecutions for those breaking the law.</s>SCHNEIDER: Last year, then-Attorney General Jeff Sessions admitted that the policy was meant to deter immigration by separating families.</s>JEFF SESSIONS, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: Well, it does that --</s>LAURA INGRAHAM, FOX NEWS HOST: Are you considering this a deterrent?</s>SESSIONS: Yes. Hopefully, people will get the message.</s>SCHNEIDER: Nielsen again unable to provide an official number of how many children have been separated.</s>REP. NANETTE BARRAGAN (D), CALIFORNIA: You let kids be separated without tracking them. Do you know how outrageous that is, Madam Secretary? You have no feeling, no compassion, no empathy here.</s>SCHNEIDER: Nielsen confirming that some parents have been deported without their children but insisting --</s>NIELSEN: There is no parent who has been deported, to my knowledge, without multiple opportunities to take their children with them.</s>SCHNEIDER: A recent court filing by the Trump administration, however, identified 471 parents who were removed from the U.S. without their children, some without being given the opportunity to elect or waive reunification. Democrats grilling her about the conditions at the border.</s>REP. BONNIE WATSON COLEMAN (D), NEW JERSEY: Does it differ from the cages you put your dogs in when you let them stay outside? Is it different?</s>NIELSEN: Yes.</s>COLEMAN: In what sense?</s>NIELSEN: It's larger. It has facilities. It provides room to sit, to stand, to lay down.</s>COLEMAN: So did my dog's cage.</s>SCHNEIDER: Nielsen citing statistics that apprehensions of undocumented immigrants have doubled since last year, backing the president's request to declare a national emergency at the border.</s>NIELSEN: This is not a manufactured crisis. This is truly an emergency.</s>SCHNEIDER: So some tough questions from Democrats there. Secretary Nielsen was also pressed on the administration's shifting asylum policies. One California congresswoman talked about visiting the border where she saw an asylum seeker turned away. And while Secretary Nielsen responded that asylum seekers can apply at the ports of entry, it is true that the Trump administration has issued a daily cap on those asylum applications, and that has been thwarting some asylum seekers -- Alisyn.</s>CAMEROTA: Jessica, thank you very much for the update on that. Meanwhile, there's this Democratic resolution condemning anti-Semitism but it may not come to a vote on the House floor this week. Sources tell CNN there is a messy debate going on behind the scenes over how to deal with the latest comments from Minnesota's freshman congresswoman, Ilhan Omar. Lauren Fox is live on Capitol Hill for us with the latest on that -- Lauren.</s>LAUREN FOX, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Alisyn. That's right. There is uncertainty about how and whether Democrats will respond to those comment that Congresswoman Ilhan Omar made last week about Israel. Here's what she said, just to remind our audience.</s>REP. ILHAN OMAR (D), MINNESOTA: I want to talk about -- I want to talk about the political influence in this country that says it is OK for people to push for allegiance to a foreign country.</s>FOX: Now, behind closed doors, Democrats have been trying to debate this issue. And Nancy Pelosi, the speaker of the House, has been trying to enforce with her caucus that they should discuss this privately, that they shouldn't go out and publicly condemn their colleagues, that that sort of gives Republicans room to attack them. She told her colleagues that no one should ascribe motives to their other members. She said, quote, "You can disagree wholeheartedly, but do not question their patriotism or their loyalty." Now, what exactly will be in this resolution is also up for debate at this point. It was supposed to be a resolution to condemn anti- Semitism, but some of Omar's comments -- or colleagues have actually started to try to get the leadership to include also any language to condemn Islamophobia. Now, this has become such a large issue on Capitol Hill that 2020 candidates are beginning to weigh in. Kamala Harris, who is a member of the Congressional Black Caucus, issued a statement after a meeting in the Congressional Black Caucus yesterday, basically saying that "I am," quote, "concerned that the spotlight that is being put on Congresswoman Omar and how it may put her at risk." They also -- she also went on to say that, you know, there's a discussion to be had here but that it should be respectful on both sides -- John.</s>BERMAN: All right. Lauren Fox for us on Capitol Hill. Joining us now is Rachael Bade, "Washington Post" congressional reporter and CNN political analyst. And Rachael, you've got some terrific color from inside this Democratic caucus meeting, and it does appear there are real fissures among the Democratic members.</s>RACHAEL BADE, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, you know, Democrats kicked off the year strong. They really -- they stuck together through the shutdown fight. Pelosi was sort of able to rally the troops and get the president to cave when it came to his border wall. But ever since that shutdown, we've seen the Democratic Party in the House, the new majority, really struggling as they get up to speed with their new power. And we're seeing these sort of fractures in the caucus. Some folks on the far left clashing with some of the more moderate members, and it's really been a mess. And it came to a head yesterday morning in a really contentious caucus meeting where people started basically scolding their colleagues for tweeting at each other. Because over the weekend and over the past few days, we've actually seen lawmakers from Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez tweeting at some more senior members in the House about Omar's comments. And right now, there's this sort of divide about what do they do regarding these comments; where they were very much anti-Semitic, and a lot of Democrats are uncomfortable with them and want to condemn them. At the same time, a lot of progressives say, "Listen, why are we calling out one of our own for something like this when we never call out other Republicans who might have said something racially charged?" Of course, they did that with Steve King just a few weeks ago. But Democrats say they rarely do that; and they say they shouldn't be going after one of their own.</s>BERMAN: And, as you noted, there are real frustrations among some of the party -- "The New York Times" has a whole story on this today, that the Democratic platform may have been derailed a little bit by this and some of the other activities. This is not what they wanted to be talking you about in the beginning of March.</s>BADE: Not at all. Last week they passed a landmark gun control bill basically expanding background checks, a very popular issue that they both ran on and that voters generally approve of in high numbers. That got little attention, because some of their moderate members joined with a bunch of Republicans on an obscure vote right before that bill passed. And that ended up being the headline, that the moderate had broke from the party, and Pelosi was mad at them and scolding them on the House floor. This week, same thing. The Democrats are trying to pass and will pass this landmark sort of bill regarding campaign finance and the whole, you know, elections and sort of opening up and being transparent on elections. But, again, Omar's comments have totally derailed those talks, and right now nobody's really writing about it.</s>BERMAN: Very quickly, is it guaranteed we will ever actually see a vote, this resolution get to the House floor?</s>BADE: You know, I think it's really unclear at this point. It clearly has upset a lot of people in the caucus, and they think that they don't want to be going after one of their own. At the same time, Democrats do have strong ties to the Jewish community. And right now they're in this really tough bind about who are they going to please right now?</s>BERMAN: All right. Rachael Bade, don't go far. We need you back in just a second. Thank you.</s>CAMEROTA: All right. Now to this, John. Republican Senator Martha McSally stunning her Senate colleagues during a hearing on sexual assault in the military. McSally revealed that she was raped by a superior officer while serving in the Air Force. CNN's Kyung Lah is live in Los Angeles with more. Good morning, Kyung.</s>KYUNG LAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Alisyn. This was such a stunning moment in this hearing. We're talking about a career military woman, a woman who is a war hero and someone who as -- someone who I've covered over her Senate run in Arizona. Someone who always displayed incredible toughness. Well, she shared that toughness as she talked and shared her personal story.</s>SEN. MARTHA MCSALLY (R), ARIZONA: So, like you, I am also a military sexual assault survivor.</s>LAH: Survivor and senator, representing Arizona now and revealing she was once a young Air Force member who felt she couldn't speak up.</s>MCSALLY: In one case, I was preyed upon and then raped by a superior officer. I stayed silent for many years. I didn't report being sexually assaulted. Like so many women and men, I didn't trust the system at the time. I blamed myself. I was ashamed and confused. And I thought I was strong, but felt powerless.</s>LAH: McSally's story even more astonishing because of who she is. McSally crushed military and societal barriers, America's first female fighter pilot to fly in combat. She sued the Department of Defense over a policy requiring all women to cover themselves off base in Saudi Arabia, a policy that the DOD would change. A proud veteran, McSally told me as she launched her Senate run how central her military career was to her identity. But when she eventually reported the assault to her superiors --</s>MCSALLY: I was horrified at how my attempt to share generally my experiences were handled. I almost separated from the Air Force at 18 years over my despair. Like many victims, I felt the system was raping me all over again. But I didn't quit.</s>LAH: McSally had survived assault before joining the military, telling "The Wall Street Journal" that at age 17, her high school track coach sexually abused her. The coach denied the allegations to "The Journal."</s>MCSALLY: Are you going to be a fighter pilot?</s>LAH: During her unsuccessful run for the Senate as a Republican, McSally talked about the hard times she suffered as a younger woman. Now, as a U.S. senator appointed to fill the late Senator John McCain's seat, she is fighting for change in the military on behalf of survivors like her.</s>MCSALLY: We must fix those distortions in the culture of our military that protect sexual harm towards women and, yes, some men, as well.</s>LAH: After McSally spoke in that subcommittee hearing, the Air Force responded, releasing this statement, saying, quote, "The criminal actions reported today by Senator McSally violate every part of what it means to be an Airman. We are appalled and deeply sorry for what Senator McSally experienced, and we stand behind her and all victims of sexual assault. We are steadfast in our commitment to eliminate this reprehensible behavior and breach of trust in our ranks." McSally's aides, Alisyn, say that she wanted to speak now in this particular hearing, because she needed to speak honestly with other survivors -- Alisyn.</s>CAMEROTA: Understood. Makes perfect sense. Kyung Lah, thank you very much. Joining us now is Kirsten Powers, CNN political analyst and "USA Today" columnist. Kirsten, great to see you. We just wanted to talk to you as someone who herself has been brave in coming forward and sharing personal stories. You have written about having been sexually assaulted at 15 years old when you were in high school. And so what did you think when you heard Senator McSally reveal this yesterday?</s>KIRSTEN POWERS, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I mean, I commend her. It's hard to talk about these things publicly. And the more women that do it, I think, the more difference that it makes. And especially somebody like her, who -- you know, this is something that happened when she was in the military, which I think, you know, we all associate what she was doing, being in the military, she was a real trail blazer as being a very strong woman. And it's important for people to understand that just because you're a strong woman, just because you're tough doesn't mean that these things can't happen to you.</s>CAMEROTA: And I think also some of the reluctance to come forward and speak is, first, that you wouldn't be believed. But that's changing. And then second, that when you are believed, you'll be defined by it somehow. "Well, that's the journalist who was sexually harassed."</s>POWERS: Right.</s>CAMEROTA: "Well, that's the senator who was raped." In your experience, after speaking out candidly, what will happen next for Senator McSally?</s>POWERS: Well, I do think now, because more women are speaking up, I think people are starting to see it a little differently and see that this is something that's really prevalent in our society. And the more you can put faces to it, you know, versus just statistics, which, you know, don't have the same impact, so when you have somebody who is attaching her face, her name to a story, then I think it makes a big difference. And, you know, there was a study in 2014 of the military; and they found that 50 -- 52 percent of the women who had been sexually assaulted faced retaliation for reporting it. So, you know, this is -- this is still a problem that's going on. And so I think there is a strength in numbers. I think the more women who come out and tell their stories, I think that that makes a huge difference. And it encourages other women to speak up.</s>CAMEROTA: Absolutely. And she talked about how, when she did speak out she felt violated all over again, because I suppose she was retaliated against or wasn't believed. But Kirsten, I'm also just curios where you think we are today. After these, I think there's been a sea change, OK, in the past two-plus years, where suddenly, people -- high-profile people are speaking about sexual harassment, about sexual assault, about rape. And I think that that helps peel away the taboo. But, of course, the problem has not been solved. And so where do you think we are today that allows a set of high-profile senator to come out and make that kind of revelation?</s>POWERS: Well, there's no question that there's been change. But there's still a long way to go. You know, I don't think that, you know, if you look at what happened with Christine Blasey Ford, the reaction of a lot of people, a lot of Republicans in particular, was this: Well, why didn't she report it. You still hear people saying things like that. Still hear people being skeptical when women come out later and talk about things, and they are still are mystified as to why women don't feel safe reporting this. And -- and so I think there's still work to be done on that front. I don't think a lot of people still understand how scary it is for women to report sexual assaults. You know, I hope moving forward, women will feel differently, but we still have a lot of women who have experienced this in the past who, I think, want to come out and talk about it. And people still will stay, "Well, if this happened you should have just reported it then." And, you know, we know -- we know, you know, that there's a reason that women aren't reporting. It's because they're convinced they're not going to be believed, and they are afraid of retaliation.</s>CAMEROTA: Well, I have to believe that every time we have this conversation publicly, it helps get rid of the stigma and helps other survivors be believed. Kirsten, thank you very much.</s>POWERS: Thank you.</s>CAMEROTA: John.</s>BERMAN: All right. Three huge policy setbacks for the president in less than one week, including on some of his central campaign promises. How does President Trump react if Trumpism means a rise in illegal immigration and an increase in the trade deficit? Plus, major developments in the Biden watch. That's next.