Trump Denies Wanting Snakes, Gators, Spikes On Border.
KEILAR: Snakes and alligators, maybe you find it hard to believe. But at one time, that was part of President Trump's immigration plan or maybe you don't find it hard to believe, which is an alarming commentary on the State of Affairs here in Washington. According to The New York Times and a new book by two veteran reporters there, quote, the president had often talked about fortifying a border wall with a water-filled trench stocked with snakes and alligators, prompting aides to seek a cost estimate. He also, quote, wanted the wall electrified with spikes on top that could pierce human flesh. You may recall the president has previously suggested that U.S. troops shoot migrants who threw rocks at them and he was told that was illegal, so he, quote, suggested that they shoot migrants in the legs to slow them down. These were just some of the ideas that aides had to waive off.</s>MICHAEL SHEAR, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, THE NEW YORK TIMES: The ways in which the people around him are continually forced to confront ever more extreme ideas that he throws out there, often telling him that they're not practical or they're illegal or they're immoral.</s>KEILAR: Now, in an interview with The Times, the president lamented, the problem you have with the laws, the way they are, we can have 100,000 of our soldiers standing up there, they can't do a thing. Gloria Borger and David Gregory are back with me now. This was part of an immigration meeting that happened in March. The president was threatening to completely shut down the border with Mexico. But let me start first with his idea of how to treat human beings.</s>BORGER: It's almost incomprehensible and almost cartoonish in a way, if it weren't so sad and depressing.</s>KEILAR: Is it amoral?</s>BORGER: putting snakes and alligators in a moat to eat people or shooting their legs off, you think that is -- imagine being -- of course, it is, to answer your question. And imagine being a staffer sitting there. It's like dealing with your young child when they're having a tantrum. The child leaves the room and then you say, well, how are we to comply with that child's wishes? I mean, what are they doing? What are they doing?</s>GREGORY: It also shows that the president doesn't view any limits or boundaries to his role as president. And it begs the question, what does he think the job of president is. And his view of solving problems doesn't adhere to limits or boundaries or precedent or what it means. But, again it's illustrative and we've seen it in other reporting, including the book, Fear, when, remember, notably, former Defense Secretary Mattis says, well, why do we have troops in South Korea, that is to prevent World War III. And somehow, that needed to be said out loud to the president of the United States. It wasn't abundantly clear. And in this case, you can imagine. I mean, it's perfectly plausible to imagine these meetings where the president goes off like this and they'd say, no, Mr. President, we can't do those things.</s>KEILAR: And he seemed frustrated. The other interesting part of the story and what is coming from this book is he's so frustrated by them just telling him reality, right?</s>GREGORY: Right.</s>KEILAR: The president addressed this story today, railed against it. Let's listen.</s>DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: So these two reporters wrote this book and they said I want a moat with alligators, snakes, electrified fences so people get electrocuted if they so much as touch the fence and spikes on top. Never said it, never thought of it. It's written by Washington Post people, so you know it's inaccurate. You know it's probably a fraud.</s>KEILAR: All right. Just to be clear, it's written by two New York Times reporters who we know. I've known both of them for years. These are really good reporters.</s>BORGER: Multiple sources.</s>KEILAR: Very well -- multiple sources, very well sources.</s>GREGORY: Well, there are sources in the White House, there are people close to the president who are increasingly talking to reporters to get their story out. Now, these are folks who have made a decision not to resign if they find the president going way beyond limits or boundaries. They may be pushing back against him but, they think, to little avail. And I think this vision of the president as isolated and as listening to no one is what is dangerous for any president.</s>KEILAR: And it could also be people who have gotten fired, because one of the interesting things, right, there's a lot of details in there about how he treated Kirstjen Nielsen. So, clearly, that there are people in her camp, at the very least, who are making clear what happened and credibly so. But the interesting part of this is she is describing to him the limits of what he can do. She's in this --</s>BORGER: And she hates that.</s>KEILAR: She hates it. She's in a room with him and a number of other aides. She's the one who really pushes back, and in the end, she gets canned.</s>BORGER: She pushes back, thought she was going to get fired once, didn't get fired that time, but knew she was going to get fired eventually. And he was called her sweetheart at one point, honey, just shoot the drones, sweetheart, did you hear me, so very patronizing. And it's very clear that she was trying to bring him some semblance of reality. And remember, this wasn't making her popular with anyone outside the oval and she was trying to bring him some sense of reality. And he would not accept it. You know, we can't close the border by Friday, I think he wanted.</s>KEILAR: Can we visit that really quick before we wrap up here? The idea of closing the border, I mean, that was the thing that freaked out aides so much, David, because doing so would have been nuts, it would have been catastrophic to the economies of both of these countries.</s>GREGORY: Right, and the president just doesn't care. I mean, ultimately, he's not thinking about the implications of those limits, of those boundaries. He wants a different kind of solution that he can -- look, his view of what the country is is American carnage that he only uniquely can fix. The model employee for Donald Trump in this administration, the attorney general, Bill Barr, and Stephen Miller, hard line, no apologies and on the attack. That's what this president wants. And if you don't do it, then you run afoul of him.</s>KEILAR: David Gregory, Gloria Borger, thank you so much to both of you. The president once again attacking the whistleblower, and my next guest, who has been in this person's shoes, says he's about to, quote, go through hell. Plus, just in, a CNN exclusive, why the U.S. is now running ads on Facebook targeting Russian spies. And we're watching Dow right now as the markets fall over fears about the health of the U.S. economy.