One-on-one with Presidential Candidate John Hickenlooper
ANA CABRERA, CNN ANCHOR: You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Ana Cabrera in New York. Thanks for being here. The world is a different place right now than it was a few hours ago. President Trump and his penchant for extraordinary television moments unquestionably made one happen. As he tells it, it was his idea. While at the Korean Demilitarized Zone, why not send a message to the leader of North Korea? A tweet to Kim Jong-un to join him for a handshake and a chat. Well, nobody knew if it would happen until it did. Kim Jong-un showed up.</s>KIM JONG-UN, SUPREME LEADER OF NORTH KOREA (through translator): Good afternoon.</s>DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Good afternoon.</s>KIM (through translator): President, good to see you again. I never expected to meet you at this place.</s>TRUMP: -- treated.</s>KIM (through translator): If you take --</s>TRUMP: I don't --</s>KIM (through translator): -- a step forward, you will be the first U.S. president to cross over this line.</s>KIM (through translator): This is a great moment.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, no, get out of the way. Move.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Move.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Move, move.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Clear.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Move. Move.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All of you.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, hey.</s>TRUMP: This is my honor. I didn't really expect it. We were in Japan for the G-20, we came over, and I said, hey, I'm over here. I want to call up Chairman Kim. And we got to meet and stepping across that line was a great honor. A lot of progress has been made.</s>CABRERA: Here again, that big moment, the sitting American president standing on North Korean soil.</s>CABRERA: Let's get CNN's Will Ripley in here. He's in Seoul, South Korea. Will, just in the last few minutes, we're finding out how the people of North Korea are learning about this monumental moment that their leader, Kim Jong-un, has now met the American president for, now, the third time and in his territory. How are the North Koreans describing it?</s>WILL RIPLEY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. As usual, Ana, it was hours after the rest of the world watched the events unfold at the DMZ live. North Korean media always carefully edits the message. But in this case, they're pretty much on the same page with how President Trump described the meeting, calling it amazing, historic, dramatic, and talking about the friendship between Mr. Kim and Mr. Trump, a friendship that allowed the notoriously rigid North Korean bureaucracy to work with the United States to pull together that extraordinary moment at the DMZ in around 24 hours after President Trump sent that tweet. But while they may be on the same page about the significance of the event, itself, there are still huge differences between what North Korea wants and what the United States wants when it comes to denuclearization. North Korea has been calling for sanctions relief right away. The United States wants North Korea to give up its nuclear weapons or at least agree on a definition of denuclearization. And despite all of those feel-good moments at the Demilitarized Zone, those differences still remain, Ana, which doesn't bode well for the future of working-level talks.</s>CABRERA: Yes. So what does the U.S. now get out of this?</s>RIPLEY: Well, what the United States gets is a restart of diplomacy after the North Koreans basically shut everything down when President Trump walked out of talks in February in Hanoi, Vietnam. A source told me, at that time, the North Koreans were actually told not to engage with the United States. Obviously, the orders have changed. Kim Jong-un and Trump are now back on a friendly footing, and they have agreed, within the next couple of weeks, to form teams that will resume working-level talks. Secretary of State Pompeo says that will happen in mid-July. But what the United States needs to get out of this, sooner rather than later, is an agreement from North Korea to take actual steps to denuclearize. And so far, the North Koreans have not agreed to do that, and it's not clear at this point if they're going to agree to do that.</s>CABRERA: All right. Will Ripley in Seoul, South Korea, for us. Thank you. I'm joined now by Democratic presidential candidate and former Colorado Governor John Hickenlooper. Governor, do you take issue with President Trump meeting Kim Jong-un at the DMZ and then stepping into North Korea?</s>JOHN HICKENLOOPER (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, you know, it's showboating. I mean, these are the highest stakes imaginable -- nuclear weapons, nuclear proliferation -- and they should not be negotiated by tweet. You know, out in Colorado, we refer to this sometimes as acting like -- you know, behaving like a cowboy. Although, in this case, I think both of them, it's all hat and no cattle.</s>CABRERA: Would you meet Kim, though, if you were president?</s>HICKENLOOPER: Yes, but I wouldn't do it on a unilateral basis. Obviously, these are the kinds of negotiations that need to happen with our various allies in the region. And to make sure everyone is at the able. And you have to go cautiously forward. I'm a big believer in constant engagement. That's what I'd call it. We should be engaging frequently with everyone because, you know, whether it's climate change or nuclear proliferation, the globe has become much smaller, and we need to have those relationships all the time. But to do it by tweet and go off and try and create a celebrity moment, I'm not sure I understand the benefit.</s>CABRERA: Let's talk about an issue closer to home. I want to ask you about the busing controversy that took center stage at night two of the debate. I know you were night one. This was this moment between Senator Kamala Harris, former Vice President Joe Biden. Earlier today, here on CNN, Senator Harris' national press secretary revealed Harris supports busing today. Would you support busing to help further integrate schools if elected president?</s>HICKENLOOPER: Well, certainly, making sure that our education system is thoroughly integrated should be a goal for everyone. And in many places, busing is essential to making that happen. So, you know, within that framework, absolutely, I would support busing.</s>CABRERA: So you do support busing in the context of desegregation, right?</s>HICKENLOOPER: Exactly. I think that you --</s>CABRERA: OK.</s>HICKENLOOPER: -- you need to make -- be very clear on what your goals are and how you're going to get there.</s>CABRERA: Now, we're a couple of days out from the debates. The conversation, though, is still largely focused on this issue and comments from the past, rather than focusing on a vision for America in the future. Do you think this helps or hurts Democrats?</s>HICKENLOOPER: You know, I think this is an issue that helps Democrats. And I was on the second night on Thursday night, so I saw it up close and personal. And, you know, it was a very direct -- you know, they were both being very direct with each other in a way you don't always see in debates. Certainly, we didn't see it Wednesday night. But they were both, you know, making their points explicit, and there was no question about where each other stood.</s>CABRERA: I'm sure you've seen the attacks now about this tweet. A lot of other Democratic candidates have come forward, condemning the tweet from Don Junior that questioned whether Kamala Harris was a, quote, Black American or an American Black since her mother's from India, her father's from Jamaica. Senator Bernie Sanders went so far as to call Don Junior racist. What are your thoughts on this?</s>HICKENLOOPER: Well, I think it's another example -- you know, I tell people I'm running for president because we are in a crisis of division. And we've never been this divided since the Civil War, probably. And this is a classic case of the Trump family -- it's not just the President -- are trying to find every way they can to divide us because they really haven't delivered what they promised in 2016. And the only way they have any hope of re-election is, you know, divide, divide, divide.</s>CABRERA: You like to say you are the only scientist right now seeking the presidency since you're a former geologist. You've released a plan to tackle the climate crisis. But under your leadership, Colorado began producing more crude oil than ever before. You can see the jump shortly after you took office in 2011. How do you square a surge in oil production with environmental protection?</s>HICKENLOOPER: Well, so the surge in oil production was a function of prices and exploration. So that happens all over the world and, you know, governors don't have a big control net. What we did do is get the oil and gas industry to sit down with the environmental community and create the first methane regulations in the history of America. Methane's 25 times more harmful to climate change than CO2 is, so no one had ever -- I mean, all the methane gets vented, was flared. We got the oil and gas industry to agree to pay for it. And in doing that, it was the equivalent of taking 320,000 automobiles a year off the streets of Colorado. That's -- you know, if we're going to address climate change, we got to get everyone at the table, figure out what are the fastest ways to reduce these harmful emissions, and then go global. Back to that constant engagement, we got to get everyone on the world helping us.</s>CABRERA: You also kept a fracking ban off the ballot, though, in Colorado in 2014. You spoke out against a similar measure last year in 2018. I hear what you're saying about methane, but critics of fracking cite environmental and health concerns as well.</s>HICKENLOOPER: So we haven't had, in Colorado, the water contamination that people are so worried about. We just have never seen it. That is a real problem in parts of New York and Pennsylvania, and I recognize that. But that, in Colorado, we haven't had that same issue.</s>CABRERA: All right, Colorado Governor John Hickenlooper, 2020 candidate. Thank you so much for stopping by and taking the time.</s>HICKENLOOPER: Thank you, Ana.</s>CABRERA: It is the takedown seen by millions, the one that's earned Senator Kamala Harris millions in donations. But was Senator Harris right about Joe Biden's stance on busing? CNN has uncovered Biden's decades-old interviews and letters, next. You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.