Explosive New Allegations Against Harvey Weinstein
LEMON: We heard two of Harvey Weinstein's accusers tell their stories tonight. Here to discuss all of this. CNN senior media correspondent Brian Stelter, also CNN legal analyst Areva Martin, CNN political commentators Alice Stewart and Angela Rye. So let's begin this very difficult conversation that we unfortunately have to have right now. I just spoke to two of Weinstein's accusers, Angela, their stories are eerily similar to what we are hearing in that audio released today by the New Yorker of Weinstein trying to convince a model name Amber Gutierrez to come to his room, his hotel room in Manhattan. A day after he allegedly forcibly groped her. The disturbing conversation caught on tape during a sting operation by the NYPD. It was March of 2015. Listen to this.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am telling you right now, get in here.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What do we have to de here?</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nothing. I'm going to take a shower. You sit there and have a drink. Water?</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't drink.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Then have a glass of water.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can I stay on the bar?</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. you must come here now.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No. I don't want to.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not doing anything with you, I promise. Now you're embarrassing me.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I know, I don't want to. I am sorry, I cannot. No, yesterday was kind of aggressive for me. I need to know a person to be touched.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I won't do a thing. Please.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't want to be touched.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don't embarrass me in the hotel. I am here all the time. Sit with me.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I know but I don't want to.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Please sit down. One minute. I ask you please.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No. I cant.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go to the bathroom. Listen to me.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want to go downstairs.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not going to do anything. You'll never see me again after this. If you embarrass me in this hotel where I am staying at --</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am not embarrassing you.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just walk.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't feel comfortable.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Honey, don't have a fight with me in the hallway. Please.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's not nothing, it's --</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am not going to do anything, I swear on my children. Please come in. On everything, I am a famous guy.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm feeling very uncomfortable right now.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Please come in now and one minute. If you want to leave when the guy comes with my jacket you can go.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why yesterday you touch my breast?</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh please. I am sorry, just come on in.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why yesterday you touch my breast?</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're used to that?</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You're used to that?</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, come in. If you do this now you will (inaudible). Now go. Never call me again. OK, I am sorry, nice to have - I promise you won't do anything.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I know but yesterday was too much for me.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I will never do another thing to you. Five minutes. Don't ruin your friendship with me for five minutes.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I know, but it is kind like it's too much for me, I can't.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Please you are making a big scene here, please.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, but I want to leave.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Bye. Thank you.</s>LEMON: So when I heard that this morning, my jaw dropped. What's your reaction to that audio, Angela?</s>ANGELA RYE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: It's just disturbing. I've never been a victim of sexual assault on any type of sexual harassment but I can't imagine for the women in my life who are friends of mine and family members who've experienced this. I just cannot even imagine. I think the biggest frustration in me hearing all of this banter about Harvey Weinstein over the last few days is the ability for people to make this political in some way. Like at some point, your humanity should Trump, no pun intended, but how convenient, what you feel, what you see. It shouldn't -- this shouldn't be about political contributions or anything else. It should be about humanity and ensuring that these women are made whole. There are so many folks now who are coming forward and you just have to wonder how much of this is culture, not just in Hollywood, but with people, men and women, in positions of power and how they use their influence to just step all over the most vulnerable. And in this instance, it's people with less power than them.</s>LEMON: Well the perpetrators are more often than not men, but the victims are more often than not, women. It does happen to men. Terry Cruz, very famous actor in Hollywood said it happened to him at a party. To this particular case, do you think Harvey Weinstein should have been charged based on that tape?</s>AREVA MARTIN, CNN LEGAL CONTRIBUTOR: Absolutely. And not do I think that, Don, many of the police officers who were involved in this have spoken out and some have been anonymous in their statements, but we've heard statements where there was confusion about why he wasn't charged after that basic confession was tape recorded by this very brave woman. I want to say what I started to say to you during the break, which is to me this is next level predator. This isn't like Bill Cosby. Bill Crosby was acting on his own. He was not the representative of a major corporation. What we learned today is that there's 16 employees, former and current employees from the Weinstein company who witnessed or were somehow involved with the unlawful acts of sexual harassment and sexual assault involving Harvey Weinstein. We haven't seen that level of predator -- someone being a predator at that level involving a company. And I think we've got to take note of that because it's very different than when you have an individual acting in their sole capacity.</s>LEMON: He was very powerful. He is accused of raping women. I mean, and drugging them, that is pretty damn bad.</s>MARTIN: But he didn't have a board of Directors sitting there who overlooked his conduct. He doesn't have employees. We didn't see employees come forward in the Bill Cosby case to say I witness the conduct. Now we're seeing --</s>LEMON: He did work for NBC which is a major network.</s>MARTIN: Well, he wasn't the face of that organization in the way Harvey Weinstein it is. That company had an obligation to create a safe workplace, obligation to create a mechanism for complaints for women, it had an obligation to investigate complaints and to take action to remove him from this company. Not three decades later, but at the time that these allegations were made and we now learned that allegations were made, and we now learned that allegations were made, but they were overlooked, they were dismissed, and as we often see in these cases, the machine is turn against the women, I'm a lawyer, we go after these women. The P.R. machine, they make it very difficult for them to move forward with their complaints.</s>LEMON: I felt compelled that I have to give the statement here because you're talking about the Manhattan D.A.'s office. They released a statement saying if we could have prosecuted Harvey Weinstein for the conduct that occurred in 2015, we would have. While the recording is horrifying to listen to, what emerged from the audio was insufficient to prove a crime under New York law which requires prosecutors to establish criminal intent. That will be debated about, but also, the board of Harvey Weinstein's company, the company that he was formerly the head of released a statement as well, Brian, saying these allegations are antithetical to human decency, these come as an utter surprise to the board, and a suggestion that the board had knowledge of this conduct is false. How could they not have known?</s>BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: I'm perplexed, by this statement. The official comment tonight from the board of Directors, they know they're under tremendous scrutiny, but even though there is this sort of denial of knowledge, there's a mountain of evidence that a lot of people looked the other way, Don, that is being generous. They looked the other way. Harvey Weinstein had a reputation for being a creep, for being volatile guy that was prone to anger, who might treat young women in inappropriate ways. Even if he didn't know about assault or god forbid rape allegations, there is at least a sense that he was treating women, young women inappropriately. The idea that his brother Bob or other board members had no idea about that, look, they're saying in the statement that they didn't have any knowledge of that. But I think even folks inside the company don't believe that denial.</s>LEMON: Alice, you know, Angela said it, she can't believe that people are politicizing, but it is a big political issue. He is a huge Democratic donor. He knew Hillary Clinton, he knew the Obamas, their daughter, the intern at his company, what do you think of this?</s>ALICE STEWART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Look, I think I'm glad that finally after five days that Hillary Clinton and former President Obama did come out today and say they were disgusted and shocked and appalled by this, but for a Party leaders who are -- who have, you know, made their name on being the party of women and supporting women and equality for women, it should have been a natural gut reaction when they first heard about this five days ago, not one after five days of public pressure. Angela is exactly right. This is not about politics. This is about a pervert whose predatory behavior was damaging to women. The sweet Katherine woman you spoke with, she felt illegitimate after her time with him. The other victim you had --</s>LEMON: Louisette.</s>STEWART: Certainly, they feel disgusted with themselves. Due to his behavior. And for this board to say that they had no knowledge of this this, defies any kind of reality. If you read the New Yorker piece, the end of that piece, there are people that worked with this company who say they knew about this for years, they felt guilty for not saying, and if nothing else, they want to create an environment for all these victims to come forward, have justice be done and open up this huge vast array of innocent victims who have been victimized by this pervert.</s>LEMON: Areva, future criminal liability for Harvey Weinstein?</s>MARTIN: Very possible. We know that the New Yorker piece talks about rape allegations. Apparently three women who have come forward to say they were raped, not just sexual harassment. There are two legal things happening here. We have civil liability potentially for sexual harassment in a workplace. And that could include the board, even though it denies having any knowledge of this, that is a little suspect at this point. But they could also be on the hook for civil damages and then there are criminal penalties. We see Bill Cosby was charged in the case with Andrea Constance. The statute of limitations has not run, as far as we know with respect to all of these women. The woman that is on the tape, that happened in 2015. That was just two years ago. So I would not be surprised if we don't see a barrage of civil lawsuits and there may be criminal charges filed.</s>LEMON: That is all we have time for. Thank you. When we come back, NFL owners looking into making rules into players kneeling during the national anthem. And today Cowboy's Jerry Jones said he will bench any of his players who disrespect the flag. We're going to speak to a man who knows Jerry Jones very well, next.