More Migrants Break Out of Hungarian Holding Camps, Walk Towards Border; Interview with UN special Envoy To Syria Staffan de Mistura. Aired 11:00a-12:00p ET
ARWA DAMON, CNN INTERANTIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We're running now with these migrants and refugees who just broke out of the holding area right along the border with Serbia.</s>ANDERSON: Border tensions boil over as Europe scrambles to catch up with a refugee crisis that shows no signs of slowing. We're live for you in southern Hungary this hour and we'll go to London in Paris for the latest rhetoric from Europe's leaders. Also ahead, how to tackle the root cause of the crisis.</s>STAFFAN DE MISTURA, UN SPECIAL ENVOY TO SYRIA: There's no more time for niceties or diplomatic malaise or postponements or partial solutions. It is to push...</s>DAMON: The UN's envoy to Syria names and blames the world powers he says are responsible for the continuing war in Syria. That interview is coming up. And the pope introduces reforms that ease the process for Catholics who want to annul their marriages. Live in Rome for you on one of his most significant reforms yet.</s>ANNOUNCER: Live from CNN Abu Dhabi, this is Connect the World with Becky Anderson.</s>ANDERSON: At just after 7:00 in the evening, it is a very good evening from the UAE. We are watching a dramatic scene unfold in southern Hungary. Hours ago, hundreds of frustrated migrants burst through a barrier near the Serbian border and began running deeper into Hungary. Let's listen. Well, CNN's Arwa Damon has been walking, or running, alongside these migrants who are now at least a few kilometers into EU territory. She's been tracking the plight of many of the refugees from the Syrian civil war, which Arwa has covered from the start. She's going to join us in a few minutes here on Connect the World. Meanwhile, the EU commission is about to lay out its proposal detailing how many refugees should be taken in by the various countries in Europe. France and the UK have said they will pitch in. And while some nations in eastern Europe are voicing objections, German Chancellor Angela Merkel says that quotas are the only way to ensure that every country does its part.</s>ANGELA MERKEL, GERMAN CHANCELLOR (through translator): We really need to discuss about a joint and overarching asylum policy and we, Sweden and Germany, are of the view that binding quota actually ought to be applied so that refugees can be fairly distributed to the European member states. Unfortunately, we are a long way off this target.</s>ANDERSON: All right. And just a reminder, we'll be back with Arwa in a moment for what is the latest on a dramatic situation playing out in southern Hungary. I want to turn to Britain where there is an eruption of controversy after Prime Minister David Cameron revealed an unprecedented military strike in Syria after two years -- two years after, sorry, parliament denied him permission to act there. Mr. Cameron announced that two UK nationals were killed in a drone strike near the ISIS stronghold of Raqqa. Now this was last month, he said. Reyaad Khan, seen here on the left in a propaganda video put out by ISIS was the target of that attack. Rohul Amin (ph) seen here was also killed. Now having acted without a mandate from parliament, Mr. Cameron will likely face questions when he returned to parliament on Wednesday for his regular question time. Well, the UK controversy comes as France looks set to take on ISIS in Syria. Well, for more on all of this, let's get you our correspondents up live. Now Nic Robertson is with us from outside 10 Downing Street tonight. And Jim Bittermann standing by in Paris. Let me start with you, Nic. And even without that mandate, the British defense minister is saying that the government would, quote, not hesitate to do this again. How is Cameron defending his position?</s>NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERANTIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's the right of self defense of the nation, article 51 of the UN. He said that he went to the attorney general in Britain and put this situation to him, or a situation similar to this to him, and he was given a legal greenlight to go ahead with these strikes where he said these young men were involved in plotting attacks in Britain, that there were several plots in the past 12 months that have been thwarted by Britain's security services and that the only way to stop these men going ahead with the plans that they were putting in place for more attacks was to disrupt them. And the only way to disrupt them was a drone strike killing them. So, what the prime minister said here is that Britain has the right to do this, because it is a right of self-defense. He said that this was meticulously planned. Human rights lawyers here are calling it into question. Opposition parliamentarians have said they really need more information if they can make a judgment on this themselves. They don't know the information that was provided to the attorney general for him to make this legal decision. So, it certainly is very, very likely to raise more questions, wanting more details about the circumstances, the precise nature of the circumstances at prime minister's question time on Wednesday. I have to say, though, it's entirely possible that he will use national security, as we've heard up until now, not to get into further details.</s>ANDERSON: Yeah, it's been just over two years, Nic, since Mr. Cameron went to parliament to ask for permission to intervene in Syria. That was to go after President al-Assad's regime. As I mentioned, parliament rejected his proposals, then. Listen to his response a few days after that defeat, just to remind our viewers.</s>DAVID CAMERON, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: Last week, the House of Commons voted clearly, and I've said I respect the outcome out of that vote. And I won't be bringing back plans for British participation in military action.</s>ANDERSON: Well, is this, Nic, a case of Mr. Cameron, then, again ignoring parliament's wishes to get involved in Syria? Or is there a genuine appetite for anti-ISIS strikes at this point?</s>ROBERTSON: I think there are several things in play here. One is that was the last session of parliament. David Cameron is back, Prime Minister with a much bigger mandate for the Conservative Party. He's not in an alliance government. The request back then, as you said, was to go after President Bashar al-Assad with manned aircraft, and this was of course right on the heels of the gas attack in Syria, which caused so much controversy around the world, that was resolved in a different way other than going for those strikes. He had rushed the MPs back from their summer recess for this vote. It did go against him. But as recently as last week when he was asked this question about further military action inside Syria, he said he wouldn't do it without the full support of the government. What he announced yesterday does seem to fit in with what we're learning, that he would like to push this parliament to a vote in October to determine whether or not Britain should carry out more strikes inside Syria. right now, it's manned strikes, or manned aircraft in strikes over Iraq after ISIS. This would just shift them a little westwards into Syrian territory. The question that is there a greater appetite for that here in this country at this time, there certainly is a realization among many people here that ISIS poses a threat, that people that are going off to join ISIS are already, if you will, nailing their colors to the flagstaff. A lot of people are unhappy about that.</s>ANDERSON: Thank you, Nic. And a reminder that much of our reporting of late has been on Syrian refugees who are making their way, often a treacherous journey through Europe. Many of them will say it's not ISIS they fear in Syria, it is President Bashar al-Assad. For another conversation. The French President Francois Hollande is looking to step up France's involvement in Syria. He has announced that France will begin reconnaissance missions over the country today aimed at gathering intelligence in preparation for bombing raids against ISIS. Jim is with us in Paris. How significant is this announcement, Jim.</s>JIM BITTERMANN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORREPSONDENT: Well, I don't think too significant politically. This is more of a philosophical discussion that's been taking place within the highest levels of governments here for the last year. Basically, France has been on board with the coalition and bombing targets in Iraq. But, from the very beginning, Hollande has said that he basically doesn't want to involve the French forces in bombing Syrian ISIS positions in Syria, because ISIS is against Bashar al-Assad. And he would like to see Bashar al-Assad out. So, by bombing them he's actually supporting Bashar al-Assad. So, the logic for the French was that they shouldn't bomb because it supports the regime and they'd like to see regime change. Now, however, there has been a philosophical change. And clearly Hollande believes that it's more important to fight ISIS than in fact it is to have regime change -- Becky.</s>ANDERSON: Jim Bittermann on the story in Paris for you. And a lot more on Europe's efforts to solve what is this crisis at both ends. Just ahead, as the fighting in Syria continues to drive more people from their homes, we're going to have my interview with the man the UN has told to sort it out. I'll ask him if that is even possible at this point. That is the UN envoy to Syria coming up. And we'll turn to Germany to look at the challenges that Chancellor Angela Merkel, a hero to some migrants, will face on delivering on her promise to take in nearly a million refugees. Well, back to the story of the day, and a scene that truly captures the anger and desperation felt by many of those trying to reach Europe from places like Syria. CNN's Arwa Damon following a group of migrants and refugees who broke through a police barrier and simply ran into Hungary earlier today. Where are you? And what's going on?</s>DAMON: Well, Becky, they've come to a stop here, something is going on. It might be the buses that they are waiting for. Yes, OK, this is what has happened up until this point. These people did not break through the Hungarian border fence, they actually came through the fence. They were then taken to something of a holding area where they were waiting for buses. And they were fed up with the wait and the conditions that they were having to wait in. They were waiting for hours. Some of them have been waiting for days. So they broke through the police perimeter there. They ran through the fields for about three hours. Some children like that little girl up there I don't know if we can grab a shot of her right there. She lost her shoes. A lot of the other kids losing their shoes as well as they bolted. But eventually the police force did catch up to them. It was especially difficult for the parents of the little kids to carry their little ones and try to run through this terrain. So, eventually the police force did catch up to them and then walked alongside them for about two to three hours along these train tracks. At a few occasions, they did try to stop them, but the front row of these refugees and migrants, made up of young men, always physically pushed through the police force. They eventually convinced them to stop right here, told them they would be bringing them food and water, which they did. And then there were some pretty lengthy negotiations underway at the end of which we heard that they agreed that they would get on buses that the police would bring them. And here they have to trust the police. And there is not a lot of trust here. But that that would take them to a location, a camp where they would be spending the night. They were promised that they would not be -- that they would not be fingerprinted and then tomorrow morning, they're expecting a train.</s>ANDERSON: Yeah. And we -- after I speak to you, we'll be hearing from the UN envoy to Syria about what is this human catastrophe as a result of this civil war and the reason why these people are on the move. Just before we leave you, Arwa, how long have these people been on the road? Is it clear? And where are they trying to get to at this point?</s>DAMON: Well, they've been -- they've been on the road -- they landed in Greece anywhere from two to four weeks ago. Some of them crossed into Hungary yesterday, some a few days ago. But most of the last two to three weeks they've spent walking. And it's exhausting. And they don't have...</s>ANDERSON: With their kids on their backs.</s>DAMON: And it is not cheap. Just that sea transit can cost anywhere from about $1,300 per person. And yes, as you say, they're walking this entire way carrying their children for the most part.</s>ANDERSON: Arwa, you've said it isn't cheap. I mean, this is just remarkable to see. And these are people who have now been on the road for two to three weeks. And as you rightly point out, they're doing this to provide themselves and their children, most importantly, a future. But they have no idea what will happen at the other end, do they? And we know that the German's for example, have talked about the doors being open only temporarily, for example. Are they concerned that possibly they'll miss the boat, as it were? They won't get in once they get to the other end?</s>DAMON: Well, they're concerned about a couple of things. They're concerned about a couple of things. They're concerned about getting where they need to get. And they also were concerned prior to all of this about Hungary closing its borders as well, because remember that is going to be taking place in the very near future. And, yes, they are aware of the reception that people are receiving in Germany right now, which is really part of the reason why they're just so desperate to get there. They want this ordeal to be over. And they just want to be able to get somewhere where they are able to relax that little bit if that is even possible for them. Because then once they get there they have to start a new life without the community, without everything that used to be familiar for them: a new language, new culture, new traditions, something that they are fully willing to do, but it's not easy. And you can see. I mean, every single step of the way of this trip is difficult, every single step of the way is fraught with its own problems, its own very different challenges, whether it's people breaking out of holding areas, or cramming trying to get on a bus. A lot of times, you know, it's the parents that all they want to do is just protect their children. And they never thought that it would be this hard, that they go through this much, especially not when they reached Europe. And they are exhausted. And at the same time, even though all they want to do is protect their children and comfort their children. They're so tired that many of them when you talk to them say that what they miss the most is their own parents comforting touch, because all they want, like one woman was saying, is for her mother to come and hug her and tell her everything is going to be OK, because this has just been so unspeakably difficult.</s>ANDERSON: And Arwa, just before we go, I can hear either the bus driver or one of the policemen there trying to get these guys sort of in to line, as it were, I guess to get on the bus. I'm assuming you're speaking Hungarian, and I'm assuming that most of the people trying to get on this bus and trying to get themselves a seat, as it were, and just sit down for a bit, don't speak any Hungarian, right? I mean, how many speak Germany? How many speak English -- I mean, how are they communicating? How difficult is it?</s>DAMON: You know -- well, that's been one of the really big challenges. It's actually been one of the things that struck us, because even when they're at organized locations like at the holding area that they were at, there aren't really any Arabic speakers either. There's no one really to translate. So you do have some of these police officers who do speak a little bit of English, some who do speak English perfectly well. You do have, you know, some of the refugees who do speak English and they try to communicate like that. But, yes, a lot of the times one of the really big problems has been the language barrier, because when these people reach Hungary having walked from Serbia into Hungary, they arrive exhausted, thirsty and confused. They want to know what the process is. They want to know how long they're going to have to wait at each point, what's going to be happening to them. And there's no one there to properly explain it to them. And so that of course adds to further frustrations. But when we've asked government officials about this, they say, well, look, you know, these aren't just people who speak Arabic. You've got Afghans, Pakistanis, people from Iran, people from other parts of the world, so we can't be expected to provide a translator for everybody. But, yes, a very good point there. The language, of course, does make it even more difficult because there aren't people around that can answer all of the questions that they have.</s>ANDERSON: Keep at it, Arwa. Thank you. Arwa Damon there is in southern Hungary on a trip, which has been some weeks in the making. But for many of those, as you can see, who are making this journey they are making it an even longer trip than even we have been reporting on. Excuse me, while I just cough. CNN has of course been reporting on the unfolding refugee and migrant crisis as Syrians flee violence, and those from other places, of course. But there are many, many Syrians who are fleeing violence and more at home looking for stability and security in other countries. The conflict started as a civil war, that's now in its fifth year. But long ago, it devolved into what is a multi-pronged proxy war as world powers vie for influence and protect their interest with Russia, Iran, Saudi and the U.S. increasingly involved. Well, the rise of ISIS in Syria has raised international concern as the terror group gains ground in the war torn country. And getting all the parties involved in the conflict to agree on a path towards peace is a difficult task, to say the least. Well, I spoke to the man charged with that task, UN special envoy for Syria Staffan de Mistura a short time ago. And I began by asking him which countries can impact this conflict in Syria. have a listen.</s>DE MISTURA: The countries who can make an influence are: USA and Russia to start with. They are talking. They are actually talking constructively at the moment. But not enough to reach a conclusion about the mother of all issues, which is how to find an architecture of the future of Syria, which has enough credible, substantial change of governance combined with a sufficient, sustainable continuation of the state as such, because we don't want -- no one wants -- another Libya, another Iraq. And then two other countries, let's call them by name because they are the ones who can and should make a difference, Iran and Saudi Arabia, Saudi Arbia and Iran. If Saudi Arabia and Iran start talking, America and the U.S. and the Russia are talking at the moment but not to the point of concluding. Iran and Saudi Arabia, unfortunately, are not yet talking.</s>ANDERSON: You pointed the fingers squarely at the U.S. at Russia, Iran and Saudi Arabia. Let's start with Iran and I'm going to come back to Russia and the U.S. and indeed Saudi. Iran says it is willing to sit down with rivals, Saudi and the U.S., to discuss a solution to the Syria crisis. Here is what the Iranian president had to say earlier.</s>HASSAN ROUHANI, IRANIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): Iran will sit down at any table if it sees that a secure, stable and democratic future for Syria will be the end result of negotiations. We are ready to talk with all parties, with countries inside and outside the region. What is important for us is the lives of the Syrian people. What is also important is for those Syrians who have been made refugees to return home. If one day Syria is more secure, that will be in the interest of the whole region and the world.</s>ANDERSON: Sir, Iran was excluded from the previous rounds from the Geneva peace talks on Syria. You've said the UN has the right to invite everybody, including Iran, to participate in the process. How critical is it for you that Iran is at the table at this point?</s>DE MISTURA: Not to me, but to the Syrian solution, to the Syrian conclusion of this conflict, it's critical. Anyone today will not be naive enough to believe that if we exclude Iran from the equation there will not be a solution on this conflict. Iran and Saudi Arabia have been supporting the two sides very actively. They are part of a regional tension that we need to help to be solved. It's not only Syria, look at Lebanon, look at Yemen, look at Iraq. Isn't it time finally for them to sit and talk? That's how conflicts have ended in the past. Now, Iran is ready to talk. The important thing is to qualify how far are they ready to consider that we cannot go back to the past.</s>ANDERSON: I want to talk about plans going forward. But as you just eluded, this is a human catastrophe. In the short-term, the British prime minister on Monday said that UK forces could be deployed to Syria to help set up safe zones, and called the idea of safe refuge as certainly the right sort of thinking. Do you agree?</s>DE MISTURA: Well, it's not for me to agree or not agree. What I can say is the following, that any type of partial solution of a military nature to a conflict that cannot be won, they've tried for five years, everyone, to win through a proxy approach a conflict which has been not winnable. So the time is not to look at partial solutions, why...</s>ANDERSON: With respect, sir, I do want to look at partial solutions, because this is a human catastrophe. There are 11 million people displaced, many of those within the country. So in the short-term, I put it to you, are safe havens the short-term solution in both the north and the south? Because if they are, that will need a UN resolution and no-fly zones and I wager you that President Bashar al-Assad will see that as a threat to his sovereignty, and one assumes that somebody like Russia as a friend not a foe of the regime there would veto that -- correct?</s>DE MISTURA: Correct. And that's most likely. And we will lose another six months, another year of tragedy. Isn't it time, instead, for looking at the global solution. It's very simple, in theory. The war could end in one month, believe me, once the oxygen will have been taken away from both sides and telling them, look, we are not going to fueling you anymore, either side, with money and weapons. Sit down about a possible road map, which we have it. The thing is, let's go to it. Then, the conflict will be over, and buffer zone or non-buffer zone will become obsolete.</s>ANDERSON: So, can I confirm with you that you say that President Bashar al-Assad has a role going forward in any political solution?</s>DE MISTURA: I didn't say that. I didn't say that because it's not for me to say that, that's up for the Syrian people to say that. One day they will be given a chance for free, honest, really UN internationally monitored elections who should be their leader, whoever will he be. What I'm saying is that currently, in order to conclude a conflict. Due to this crisis and due to the trigger of the refugees, there is no more time for niceties or diplomatic malaise or postponements or partial solution. It's to push Russia and America to continue seriously their dialogue and conclude it. And above all, to put enough, more pressure on those who can make a difference. Iran and Saudi Arabia, for god's sake, sit together, do something about what otherwise will employed the whole region. And would be endless.</s>ANDERSON: Strong words from the man who is tasked, at least by the UN, in trying to sort out the mess that is Syria at present. Live from Abu Dhabi, this is Connect the World. I'm Becky Anderson. Coming up, Germany takes the lead on the refugee crisis sweeping Europe. Many people there going out of their way to welcome the new arrivals, but not everybody, it has to be said. And we'll be live in Rome as the Vatican makes a radical announcement, simplifying the process for Catholics to end their marriages. Stay with us.