Can Truce in the Middle East Last?
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: With a cease-fire now in place, Israel says it will send a delegation to those peace talks in Cairo but only if Hamas honors the truce. Reza Sayah is in Cairo to tell us more. You said there was a feeling of optimism. It sounds promising.</s>REZA SAYAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, cautious optimism. It's 5:30 p.m. here in Cairo. We're still waiting for the Israeli delegation to arrive here in Cairo. They have yet to get here. But it's no cause for alarm according to the parties involved because Israel has made it clear that they have signed on to the cease-fire and they will come once they are convinced that this cease-fire is going to hold. Once that happens, ideally, they come here, they start negotiating with the Palestinians. Like all negotiations, it's going to take both sides compromising and maybe most importantly it's going to take both sides easing some of the anger and the sheer animosity and that's naturally tough to do when you've had such a difficult four weeks when so many people have lost so much. The Palestinian delegation is already here. This is the delegation that arrived over the weekend and crafted the cease-fire proposal with the Egyptian government. The Egyptian government in turn conveyed it to the Israelis last night. Eventually the Israelis said yes. Again, we're waiting for the Israelis to get here -- cautious optimism because we've seen this scenario before. We've also seen it falling apart, but this time you get the sense that both sides are serious, that there is a chance to, one, end the blood shed, and two, perhaps start talking about a lasting truce that has been very elusive on both sides. Whenever these two sides have sat down, they have laid out their conditions but neither side has met those conditions. Israel obviously wants Hamas to disarm. They want to demilitarize Gaza. The Palestinians have said that's a non-starter. The Palestinians and Hamas, they want Israel to lift the blockade, to open some of the crossed borders, exits and entries and they say they just want a semblance of a dignified life and so far they haven't had that. All of that is going to be on the table -- Carol -- once the Israeli delegations get here and that's why all eyes are on Cairo in the coming hours and days to see how this all unfolds.</s>COSTELLO: And Reza, Hamas will be at the table?</s>SAYAH: Hamas will be at the table. They sent a couple of representatives over the weekend -- at least two other members from Gaza are making their way here to Cairo, according to Palestinian television. I think everyone agrees, without Hamas here in Cairo being part of the negotiations, these talks wouldn't go forward because, of course, this is one side of the warring factions. They are not necessarily going to be sitting across from the table from the Israelis, but they will be here in Egypt.</s>COSTELLO: All right. Reza Sayah reporting live from Cairo Egypt this morning. In spite of the talks that may or may not take place in Egypt, not many people believe there will actually be peace in the Middle East? Why? Intense hatred. Listen to what the Hamas spokesman Osama Hamdan said. Actually I'll read it for you. Quote, "We all remember how the Jews used to slaughter Christians in order to mix their blood in their holy matzoh. This is not a figment of the imagination or something taken from a film. It is a fact acknowledged by their own books and historical evidence", end quote. Wolf Blitzer pressured Hamdan to take back what he said. It did not go well.</s>WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: I'm going to remind you what you said. I'm going to play it in Arabic. Here's what you said --</s>OSAMA HAMDAN, SPOKESMAN FOR HAMAS: I know what I've said. Wolf --</s>BLITZER: I want to play this for you -- just listen to this and then you'll explain what you mean.</s>HAMDAN: I know --</s>BLITZER: Let's play the tape. Do you believe that Jews used to slaughter Christians to mix their blood to --</s>HAMDAN: You cut the words. Not you. The Israelis. In mEmory, they cut the facts and they start this propaganda to say that they are innocent. They want to cover the genocide which is happening in Gaza now. We don't have a problem with the Jews as they are Jewish people. In fact, we believe in Moses, we believe in Jesus, we believe in Mohammed. We respect them all -- the three of them the same and we believe that everyone has the right to choose his religion. We are all from Adam, but the people who are talking about genocide against the Palestinians must be questioned and asked because they are saying that and doing that at the same time.</s>BLITZER: I was hoping to get a flat denial from you that you would utter such ridiculous words that Jews would kill Christians in order to cues their blood to bake matzoh?</s>HAMDAN: Wolf, Wolf, you have to be fair.</s>COSTELLO: Peter Beinart is a CNN political commentator and a columnist for Haaretz; Larry Sabato is the director at the University of Virginia Center for Politics. Welcome to you both.</s>LARRY SABATO, DIRECTOR, HE UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA CENTER FOR POLITICS: Thanks, Carol.</s>COSTELLO: Thanks for being here. Peter I'll start with you. Perhaps Hamas has to learn better PR but that was a hateful thing to say. So you have to wonder, is there any point to Hamas being anywhere near the table in Cairo, Egypt?</s>PETER BEINART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Look, I think tragically some of the ancient currents of anti Semitism that mostly have their roots in Europe have infected the Middle East and in this case, Hamas. This terrible, terrible libel about Jews using blood for matzoh during the Holiday Passover is absurd and hateful stuff has unfortunately infected some of the Palestinian discourse. But Hamas is a political reality. The question about it for Israel I think is how do you politically weaken Hamas? You can destroy Hamas military arsenal. But Hamas is also a political challenge. And so I think the strategy for Israel has to be how do you strengthen those Palestinians who believe in nonviolence, who have accepted Israel's right to exist? When you continue to subsidize settlement growth, you weaken them and you make people like Hamaz militants who have not accepted Israel's right to exist, who launch these terrible rockets, you make their position stronger. So I think the way to weaken Hamas is to have a political strategy to strengthen Hamas's moderate adversaries.</s>COSTELLO: And what might that political strategy be.</s>BEINART: It would be to show that Israel is open to a Palestinian state near the 1967 lines? That it's not going to continue to massively subsidize settlement growth as this government has done. I think that would strengthen Mahmoud Abbas who is the main rival to Hamas.</s>COSTELLO: So Larry, the former President Jimmy Carter he has a different take. He wrote an op-ed for "Foreign Policy Magazine" and he writes in part quote, "Ending this war in Gaza begins with recognizing Hamas as a legitimate political actor", as Peter said. "There must also be an opportunity for the teachers, police, and welfare and health workers on the Hamas payroll to be paid." Now the question is the United States certainly considers Hamas to be a terrorist organization. So is that the way to go?</s>SABATO: Well, of course, Jimmy Carter had the great Camp David agreements and deserves full historical credit for that. That's one of the few bright spots in Middle East history since World War II. Having said that I think it's probably true that most Israelis see Jimmy Carter as being pro-Palestinian. He believes in a two-state solution which may be the right solution in the long run. You know, I just don't see very much changing. I salute Peter and others for finding rays of sunshine somehow in all of this, but, you know, if you are perverse enough to want to be depressed, all you have to do is focus on the Middle East. It's eternally depressing because it's so difficult to see how you break out of current patterns. Even in the United States, it is very difficult for the political alignments here to change. Jewish Americans vote Democratic about 75 percent of the time. Democrats overwhelmingly support Israel. Why would Republicans be more open to Palestinians? Because part of their base constituency is Evangelical Christians who are even more pro Israel because of biblical and doctrinal reasons. So it's hard to see the alignments here changing. It's hard to see the hatred in the Middle East changing very much.</s>COSTELLO: Well, Larry, you always hear about these polls that younger Americans don't strongly support Israel as older Americans do. Does that matter?</s>SABATO: Well, you are absolutely correct. Recent Gallup polls showed that people under 30 are much more inclined to be balanced and to be even sympathetic to Hamas and critical of Israel. Of course, unlike the enormous baby boom generation, they don't have the memories of say the 1967 War or the 1973 War and so on. Still, I think that ought to be of concern to Israel and even the two big American parties because those young people, if it continues with people who are currently in their teens, if that continues, then there could be a basic change in American policy toward Israel.</s>COSTELLO: Ok. So I'm going to be a little more optimistic then, Larry. Peter you are showing a little bit of hope anyway. There are those who believe that other Arab nations are turning against Hamas and they're like silently supporting Israel. Will that change things?</s>BEINART: It's true. Because of that hostility to the Muslim Brotherhood in many Arab capitals, that translates into a hostility to Hamas because Hamas was born as an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood. But ultimately those Arab governments also can't get rid of Hamas. I mean the being against Hamas. The tragic reality is I think this war has probably strengthened Hamas. Hamas was very weak before it is a war partly because they're not doing a good job of governing in Gaza. They weren't producing results. Now they have this image to some in the Palestinian world of having stood up and fought against Israel. Hamas had even accepted a Palestinian unity government. It's important that I want to get the distinction clear. Hamas as a party does not accept Israel's right to exist. But Hamas had been willing to sign on to a Palestinian unity government led by Mahmoud Abbas and Abbas said that unity government does accept Israeli's right to exist. I think there was the best political strategy which is to say, let Abbas negotiate with the unity government behind him. Then tell Hamas that -- Hamas has been willing to say they would accept the will of the Palestinian people in a referendum on a two-state solution. They don't support the two-state solution but they would accept the will of their people in a referendum. That, I think, is the best way to get a legitimate two-state agreement and ultimately the further you get toward peace and the end of this occupation and strengthening those Palestinians who believe in mutual co-existence and nonviolence, the more you weaken militants like Hamas.</s>COSTELLO: Ok. So I'm back to depressed like Larry. Peter Beinart, Larry Sabato -- thanks so much. I'll be right back.