America Recovers: Was the Bush Speech Reassuring?
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: W0e cannot know every turn this battle will take, yet we know our cause is just and our ultimate victory is assured. We will no doubt face new challenges, but we have our marching orders. My fellow Americans, let's roll.</s>TUCKER CARLSON, CO-HOST: President Bush takes his case to the nation. But can Congress roll out legislation to lift the economy and make airports safer? This is CROSSFIRE. Good evening, and welcome to CROSSFIRE. In his speech to the nation last night, President Bush described Americans as returning to life as normal. Going to church, he said, taking in baseball games. The president didn't say getting back to partisan bickering, but they are, at least on Capitol Hill. The debate over the economic stimulus package is sizzling. Democrats describe their version as vital medicine for ailing industries. Republicans slam it as a pinata party for special interests. Meanwhile, party leaders in Washington have spent of the last week trying to sort what happened in Tuesday's election: Republicans wondering how they could have lost the Virginia governorship, Democrats reeling from a baffling defeat in the New York mayor's race. Attacks, recriminations, pitched battles: That's the state of political war in the capital city these days. Who's winning? Joining us in the "CROSSFIRE" tonight, two grizzled political veterans: Democrat strategist Kiki McLean, and her counterpart in the opposing trench, Republican Ed Gillespie -- Bill Press.</s>BILL PRESS, CO-HOST: And let's just start out by saying that Ed is more grizzled than Kiki.</s>CARLSON: By appearance anyway.</s>KIKI MCLEAN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: I take -- the first thing I take issue with Tucker tonight on.</s>CARLSON: Won't be the last.</s>MCLEAN: Exactly.</s>PRESS: All right, Ed Gillespie, let's start with last night's speech. I mean, I'm a true American. I watched my president's speech last night. I went into it feeling really patriotic. I came out of it feeling used. I mean, he said nothing new. He made no new announcements. He repeated the same old theme as he's been using since September 11th. In fact, in some cases the very same sentences that he used in his speech to Congress over a month ago. So if we're getting back to politics, that was just an old- fashioned campaign speech, wasn't it?</s>ED GILLESPIE, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: No, it wasn't, Bill. The fact is there's been a lot that's occurred since he gave the joint session speech in terms of obviously the anthrax developments and other domestic home-front terrorism activities that people are concerned about. And I think the president has dual roles here. He has to not only wage the war against terrorism in terms of international relations and military attacks, but he also has to wage it on the home front and make sure that the American people understand that they may be terrorists but we don't have to be terrorized. And we ought to approach it that way, and that's smart.</s>PRESS: Well, when you think of presidents or leaders leading a nation during a time of war, you think of Franklin Roosevelt, you think of Winston Churchill, you think of statesmanship. And what do you hear from the lips of George Bush? It's "Let's roll." Bring them back dead or alive. They can run, but they can't hide. I mean, wouldn't you -- let's just put partisanship aside. Wouldn't you have to admit that this guy sounds more like a sheriff or he sounds more like a football coach than a president?</s>GILLESPIE: Bill, actually let's role is inspirational when you think of the context. Think of the men and women on that plane who gave their lives to save those of others who were civilians in their ordinary course of their daily events taking a plane they thought to see friends. And they stood up and they defeated these terrorists at the risk of their own lives.</s>GILLESPIE: And saying "Let's roll," that's inspirational. That's...</s>PRESS: That's inspirational, but not in front of 5,000 partisans in Atlanta.</s>GILLESPIE: And there's a reason that his numbers are so high, which is that he has been a very effective leader. You may not like -- you may wish he had more soaring rhetoric and oratory, but the fact is his plainspokeness is resonating with the American people. He has found his voice, and they like it.</s>MCLEAN: The tragedy of others is not the defense of mediocrity in one speech performance by the president. The reality is I've got to give President Bush a lot of credit for his speech to the joint session. It was spectacular. As an American, I was proud. It motivated. It gave me an idea of where he wanted to go. Last night's speech, which was touted by his staff to everyone as being the speech that was going to instruct us, give us some idea of what to do -- here's where they've been blowing it. They themselves at the White House have said we've had too many voices speaking. We have alerts going out from John Ashcroft. We have Tom Ridge holding a press conference over here. We have Condoleezza Rice giving instruction</s>CARLSON: Wait.</s>CARLSON: There was so much in that I can't even address it all, but we'll have time later in the show. Let me get to what really happened in Washington last night, and that was, of course, up in the Senate in the Finance Committee. Democrats have been pretty good since September 11th, on the wagon. They went on a bender last night. They lost control of themselves. I want to read you a list of some of these -- some of these special interests goodies Democrats proposed throwing out to their pals in the agricultural sector. This is in the economic recovery package, the package to help us get back on track after the attacks: money for apple growers, apricots, asparagus, bell peppers, cherry, cauliflower, cantaloupe, cucumbers, lemons, melons, peas, rum, strawberries, tomato...</s>MCLEAN: Tucker, it sounds like a well-balanced diet. I don't know what your problem is.</s>CARLSON: Let me get to my favorite. Hold on.</s>MCLEAN: Let's talk about -- lets talk about the 16 Fortune 500 corporations that get the tax break...</s>CARLSON: Slow down. Slow down...</s>MCLEAN: ... in the Republican stimulus plan.</s>CARLSON: I want you to listen to Tom Daschle's explanation for my favorite. That's money to poultry growers for chicken waste. Listen to Senator Tom Daschle defend this atrocity.</s>SEN. TOM DASCHLE (D-SD), MAJORITY LEADER: Poultry waste and waste of all agricultural products is something that continues to threaten our country.</s>CARLSON: There you have it, Kiki. You thought it was anthrax. You thought it was al Qaeda. No, it's chicken waste.</s>MCLEAN: Tucker, here's the thing. You know what, it's great for humor and you're having a wonderfully humorous moment.</s>CARLSON: He said it.</s>MCLEAN: But the...</s>MCLEAN: But the reality is that our agricultural, the threat to what's going on in America, with agricultural resources and what happens to the economy, it's important and it plays a role. Tell me that that's any more important or less important than the 16 Fortune 500 corporations who get over $7 billion back in the Republican tax- break version of this stimulus.</s>CARLSON: Let me answer that.</s>MCLEAN: Tell me that. Explain it to me.</s>CARLSON: Let me answer it with words...</s>MCLEAN: I'd love to know.</s>CARLSON: ... from your leader in the Senate. That would be Tom Daschle...</s>MCLEAN: This is an audition for David Letterman.</s>CARLSON: Yeah, that's right. Listen to this.</s>MCLEAN: I can tell. This is an audition for David Letterman.</s>CARLSON: It's the all-important bison industry. Listen to Tom Daschle. The bison industry, they need help, too. Here he is.</s>DASCHLE: The bison industry is probably in its worst set of economic circumstances in the last two to three decades.</s>CARLSON: Now, you beat up on tax breaks to IBM. At least IBM's a real company. The bison industry?</s>MCLEAN: You don't think that for somebody who represents the state of South Dakota that the bison industry and agriculture is important?</s>GILLESPIE: Kiki...</s>MCLEAN: I mean, Tucker, here's the amazing thing about this is that when you look at the versions of the stimulus...</s>CARLSON: That you're defending it is the amazing thing.</s>MCLEAN: No. Let me raise something about the stimulus thing. What's really interesting is that the chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee, a Republican, sent a letter to Tom Daschle, the Democratic leader of the Senate today. Or he may have sent it yesterday. I don't know the exact day he sent it.</s>CARLSON: He said, "Go Bisons!"</s>MCLEAN: But he sent -- no, he sent a letter to Tom Daschle where he basically flat-out said -- and I'm paraphrasing -- the block between economic recovery in America is you. You want to talk about partisan politics and who's really trying to take it down, that's a perfect example.</s>GILLESPIE: Kiki, you may be able to convince us that the tax break for chicken manure is chicken salad, but you're not going to convince us that it's going to create a single job. I'm sorry.</s>MCLEAN: I think you're talking about one element, and what I'm talking about, I'm talking about</s>PRESS: I just want to say somebody on this show has to defend chicken poop. All right?</s>MCLEAN: Bill, you know what...</s>CARLSON: Not</s>I. PRESS: Not I. All right.</s>MCLEAN: ... credit for taking on the hard jobs. Come on.</s>PRESS: Moving right along, though, this chicken manure subsidy is nothing, as Kiki has been trying to say, compared to the economic stimulus package that passed the House of Representatives, which has all these sweetheart tax breaks for the big corporations in America, which they can use for anything they want: executive bonuses, longer vacations for their bosses, golden parachutes. Nothing to do with September 11, a point made by Congressman Robert Menendez of New Jersey. Please listen up to some good sense.</s>REP. ROBERT MENENDEZ (D), NEW JERSEY: A corporate tax cut isn't going to give us enough smallpox vaccine for every American. A corporate tax cut isn't going to improve our intelligence operations. A corporate tax cut isn't going keep our food and water safe from bioterrorism, and it isn't going to help keep weapons of mass destruction out of the hands of terrorists.</s>PRESS: So without having to defend chicken manure, you can't defend these corporate tax cuts either, can you?</s>GILLESPIE: Oh, I absolutely I can.</s>MCLEAN: Ed's been doing it for years. He'll be happy to.</s>GILLESPIE: First of all, I don't necessarily disagree with what -- I don't disagree with what Menendez said. We should do all those things...</s>PRESS: Well, then why don't you spend the money on that stuff?</s>GILLESPIE: We should do that too, but the fact is, Bill, we need to make sure that as we wage this war against terrorism, we do all the things he talked about, but that we also make sure that our economic stability is in place and that we're creating jobs. You may hate to admit this, Bill, on the left side of the liberal spectrum, and Kiki, but the fact is jobs are created by companies and corporations: those are who hire people, and pay their money and pay their salaries. And to help them do that is actually good economic policy.</s>MCLEAN: Wait a minute. There is -- there is an estimated half million people out of work as a result of September 11th. Do you mean to tell me that a company out of the Fortune 500 roster or the 16 together who get over $7 billion in tax breaks off of this deal are actually going to turn around and make sure they hire some of these people?</s>GILLESPIE: Yeah, I think they're going to use it to hire and they're going to create jobs with it.</s>MCLEAN: And are they going to pay -- are they going to pay insurance premium coverage for all those unemployed people?</s>GILLESPIE: According to one economic analysis, there are 300,000 jobs that would result from the proposal of the president...</s>MCLEAN: I hope</s>PRESS: All right. And let's say where a lot of those out-of- work people are. They're in the airline industry. They're in the hotel industry. They're in the rental car industry. None of them are helped in this House bill, Ed. This House bill eliminates the alternative minimum tax for the biggest corporations. Not only that, it says they can go back 15 years and recoup all the taxes they paid over the last 15 years. That is highway robbery, Ed Gillespie. You've got to admit it.</s>GILLESPIE: Bill, there's bipartisan support for repealing the alternative minimum tax, because it's an anachronistic tax law that ends up actually penalizing companies for performing well, and what we ought to be doing is rewarding people for performing well so they can hire people and create jobs in this economy. That's the way the economy works.</s>MCLEAN: The House leaders that are pushing this ought to be ashamed of themselves, because to pass this on the coattails of September 11 as though this is a remedy for September 11...</s>GILLESPIE: No one said it's a remedy for September 11. What people said is that we've got to rejuvenate this economy...</s>MCLEAN: But that's part of the stimulus package. That's part of the stimulus package.</s>GILLESPIE: ... that's an important part of keeping our quality of life where it needs to be.</s>CARLSON: Now, Kiki, defend this: Charles Krauthammer had a fascinating and I think what will become an very influential piece in this morning's "Washington Post," in which he said, look, we all agree that our reliance on foreign oil, particularly Saudi Arabia and all Gulf oil is a problem. We don't want to be reliant on a part of the world that's this unstable. Here we have an opportunity to drill in the Arctic, a region where we could be getting up to a million barrels of oil a day, and environmentalists -- because they love the furry critters who live there -- are stopping this. This is, in wartime, offensive. It's absolutely right.</s>MCLEAN: No. Here's the whole thing. This is again Republicans trying to push their issues on the coattails of September 11, which I'm really offended by, because the reality is, the experts in the oil industry will actually admit to you that the footprint that occurs up there will take 10 years before we get to it and, in fact, will only give us about a 10-year supply. It is a drop of oil, it's not a barrel of oil in solving our problem, and it's not going to go anywhere. It actually doesn't do anything.</s>GILLESPIE: ... level of import from Iraq, for God's sakes. I mean, we rely on Iraq right now.</s>MCLEAN: No, it in no way balances off the dependency that we have.</s>CARLSON: Kiki, I think you know the things you just said are purely speculative and theoretical. But even...</s>MCLEAN: Not true! Those are reports from oil companies...</s>CARLSON: Hold on.</s>CARLSON: OK, I'll grant you that they're true.</s>MCLEAN: This is good, Tucker.</s>CARLSON: Is it not during wartime our duty, our patriotic duty to conserve oil, true, but also to increase our domestic supply of oil and therefore reduce our foreign dependence as much as we can? And so, for the sake of the Caribbean, you're going to stop this?</s>MCLEAN: If President Bush is having the success he and his White House say he is with the coalition around the world, I don't think we are going to be in danger in this particular instance.</s>GILLESPIE: ... why don't we have a vote on it?</s>MCLEAN: What we have to do is make sure that we have a long-term plan and not a band-aid to the plan that causes bigger problems in other ways. So the concept that a whole energy reliance program can be found in the Arctic is ridiculous, and it's setting up false expectations.</s>CARLSON: Nobody is even suggesting that.</s>PRESS: Guess what, there are lots of other issues we didn't get to yet, and we're going to get to as many as we can, just hold your fire for a second. When we come back, there's still a lot of fallout over what happened this week in New Jersey and Virginia and New York City. We will give Ed Gillespie and Kiki McLean a chance to read the political tea leaves when we come back.</s>GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're a different country that we were on September the 10th, sadder and less innocent. Stronger and more united. And in the face of ongoing threats, determined and courageous.</s>PRESS: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE. Most Americans are united behind the president in the war against terrorism, but we learned this week that unity doesn't necessarily stand to domestic politics. A Republican won in New York City, but Democrats won two big governor's races, in New Jersey and Virginia, which raises the stakes for the next year's congressional elections. Will Democrats be able to repeat and expand their victories in New Jersey and Virginia, or can Republicans build on their success in New York? Yes, it's political season again, with Republican strategist Ed Gillespie. He's already decided George Bush is headed for a second term. And Democratic strategist Kiki McLean, who says he might as well start packing his bags now. And at least, I didn't call you grizzled.</s>GILLESPIE: Appreciate it.</s>PRESS: Tucker.</s>CARLSON: So you are, Bill...</s>CARLSON: Now, Kiki...</s>MCLEAN: You can't offend me.</s>CARLSON: You are ungrizzled.</s>MCLEAN: Thank you. That's the kindest thing you've ever said to me.</s>CARLSON: Well, now I'm going to be mean. Two weeks ago, Mark Green up 16 points in New York. Of course, on Tuesday, out of nowhere comes this billionaire Bloomberg, beats him, pretty shocking for your party in a city that's five to one Democrat.</s>MCLEAN: They had a Republican incumbent mayor.</s>CARLSON: That's true, but still it's...</s>CARLSON: So, what does the party do? And this is a trend you'll recognize, it blames the consultants. And here, I want you to listen to your party chairman, Terry McAuliffe. This has got to be one of the most Stalinist things I've heard in a long time. He's getting mad at two consultants, Bill Napp (ph) and Doug Shawn (ph), who did work for Bloomberg. Quote: "I'm very upset about Democratic consultants who've made all their money representing Democrats and then turn around and represent Republicans and attack our candidates. If I had anything to say about it, people who partake in those activities will no longer get any money with this committee, no business with this committee." I mean, that's not American. That is so -- so...</s>MCLEAN: Every business decision, OK, Bill Napp (ph) and Doug Shawn (ph) and other consultants in other races earn a living off of it. They are professionals. Every business decision has repercussions. They made a decision, knowing that there may be some in our party, including the leadership, our Chairman Terry McAuliffe, who has every right to say who will or will not work for the Democratic National Committee and earn a living from that committee. And in fact, in this case he said unlikely that those two will. My guess is of off all Bloomberg's money and the $50 million he spent to win that one mayor's office, they'll be fine. I'm not worried about...</s>CARLSON: ... a little bit more specific here, though. What they did was produce an ad that accused...</s>CARLSON: Hold on, hold on, but Terry McAuliffe pointed out specifically an ad that he was offended by. And it was an ad that pointed out Mark Green race-baited. So, here you have two Democrats pointing out the race-baiting of another Democrat, and all of a sudden you're not allowed to do that?</s>MCLEAN: Let's make it clear. No, they are perfectly allowed to do that, but they shouldn't expect...</s>CARLSON: But they are being punished by the party that's supposedly against that sort of thing.</s>MCLEAN: They are being punished because they went to work for a Republican and they attacked a Democrat, and that's totally legitimate. And I'm sure the RNC Chair Gilmore would have done the same thing if the tables were turned. It's perfectly legitimate, but like I said, I'm not really worried about their refrigerators going empty...</s>CARLSON: ... that's the headline.</s>PRESS: Obviously, the political consultants are not the issue or not the story of what happened last Tuesday. The story is, you got your clock cleaned in New Jersey big time, and you lost one of the big red states, Ed, your state of Virginia. Now, I'm going to make it easy on you. I'll give you a choice. Did you just have lousy candidates or is it because the old Republican message of lower taxes and less government is just getting so stale that nobody will buy it any more.</s>GILLESPIE: Lousy candidates.</s>MCLEAN: Take it easy.</s>PRESS: Given that choice, I told you.</s>GILLESPIE: The fact is that both these candidates in New Jersey and in Virginia on the Democratic side had run statewide before, and they had all the signs and all the markings of second-time statewide candidates. Our candidates in those states were first-time candidates, and they showed all the signs of first-time candidates. And I have to tell you, as a political consultant, I do think they ran disappointing campaigns. I'm not one to blame the candidates. But this is not in any way a tea leaf to be read for future elections, whether it be in '02 or '04. It doesn't reflect the president's number. These candidates ran on local issues, New Jersey and Virginia. Mark Warner ran to the right -- well, certainly of tucker, not quite of me -- but on guns and on other issues, and he ran a very finely crafted campaign for the state of Virginia. You have to give him credit. But this is not a harbinger, like we saw in 1993 when Bill Clinton's numbers were so down, there was intensity on the Republican side of the aisle. These guys ran on Republican issues.</s>MCLEAN: Wait, Ed, you did see a phenomenal support for a Democratic domestic agenda. And it's interesting, because I actually think some tea leaves happened, and I don't think it's necessarily a huge statement about George Bush. But I do think when you saw how both the New Jersey and Virginia: Not only did the base vote turn out, but it coupled with a suburban vote around a message. And it is an economic message, which is a legitimate one, and I think you'll see Democrats have more success with it.</s>PRESS: Here's what I don't -- I understand the spin. These were just local issues, Ed. But in 1993, this very same three state, cities -- city and states we're talking about went from Democrat to Republican. And the Republicans crowed and says this is the first chink in Bill Clinton's armor. Now, why in the year 2001 aren't Democratic governors in Virginia and New Jersey -- and let's face it, a Democrat as mayor of New York, no matter what his label is -- why aren't they the first chinks in GEORGE BUSH'S armor?</s>GILLESPIE: No, they're not. Again, for the reasons I mentioned. Clinton's numbers were low. The president's are high right now.</s>GILLESPIE: Do I get to answer the question? You guys know</s>MCLEAN: But I definitely think the demonstration of support for where Democrats are on an economic message and where this country is going to go in the future, I also think both of these candidates in New Jersey and Virginia talked about the future. And the Republican nominees were definitely fighting the past.</s>CARLSON: Wait a second. What candidate for any office doesn't talk about the future?</s>MCLEAN: I've got news for you. Schundler wasn't doing it...</s>CARLSON: OK...</s>MCLEAN: ... and in Virginia Earley wasn't doing it.</s>PRESS: Touche.</s>CARLSON: He was talking about a brighter future. In any case, now this is -- I want to...</s>MCLEAN: OK, come on, Tucker. Give me your best shot.</s>CARLSON: I want to wrest a difficult admission from you, and that is that you were completely wrong, you and other Democrats, in your characterization of...</s>MCLEAN: Ask my husband: I am never wrong.</s>CARLSON: ... of George W. Bush as a foreign policy lightweight. This -- hard to remember now, but a recurring theme during the campaign that this guy is not someone whose fingers should be trusted anywhere near the button. He just didn't have the gravity of, say, Al Gore. And I just want to read to you -- I mean, I could offer you a thousand ways to refute this now ridiculous point. But just as one minor example, this week he meets with Tony Blair, Jacques Chirac. Just today, he meets with the foreign minister of Morocco, prime minister of India, prime minister of the Czech Republic, and the foreign minister of Saudi Arabia. And no one doubts he did a fine job with each. Isn't it time to admit that was totally wrong?</s>MCLEAN: Well, he's doing what he should do, and we're also not through this crisis. And I hope as an American that he does a terrific job, and I think there's some things he's done very well. Even Al Gore has said that facing this crisis in America, this election of last year is long over, and George Bush is his commander in chief. But let me point out this: that the crisis isn't over and we all as Americans hope well for him. I think that for anybody, including members of his own team, to try to bait for judgments and conclusions already may be -- may be setting things that shouldn't be.</s>PRESS: Quick last word, though.</s>GILLESPIE: There is a strong contrast here, though, with the kind of leadership that President Bush is showing right now and the kind of speech that Bill Clinton gave on Wednesday at Georgetown University, in which he basically said that we are getting what we deserve in this terrorist attack because of the past history of the United States. It was despicable, and the media ought to report about it and they ought to talk about it more than they have.</s>MCLEAN: ... he's out of office. He's gone.</s>GILLESPIE: He ought to stop talking like that anyway.</s>MCLEAN: He's gone.</s>CARLSON: That's Kiki McLean, Ed Gillespie. Thank you both very much. We have talked about a lot of issues. Bill Press and I will be back in a moment to sweep it all up, hopefully not under the rug, in our closing comments. Be right back.</s>CARLSON: For those of you who just can't get enough of CROSSFIRE, you are in luck. Bill and I will be back here for a special Sunday edition. Our guests: House Minority Whip Nancy Pelosi and Republican Senator Richard Shelby. It's another lively CROSSFIRE opportunity at a special time, 5:30 Eastern Sunday. Don't miss it.</s>PRESS: Sunday.</s>CARLSON: Sunday. You know, Bill, of all the people hurt in September 11, at least we know the bison farmers are going to do well. Do you know how we know that? Because, as Kiki McLean pointed out, they are from South Dakota and so is Tom Daschle. So he's keeping his pals, the bison farmers -- he's keeping them.</s>PRESS: You know what, Tucker, I'm in favor of using the whole bison. And I'm in favor of using the whole chicken, Tucker. And if you capture all that energy available from manure, you can save ANWR, Tucker. You don't have to...</s>CARLSON: You know, the fact that you are defending that. It just -- I'm not sure what it shows.</s>PRESS: Well, I'll tell you what, that's a gift for you because even though I'm going to be here Sunday, I'm not going to be here all next week. I'm going to be on my book tour, promoting...</s>CARLSON: We're going to miss you.</s>PRESS: ... "Spin This" but then I'll be back after selling one million books. So from the left, good night for CROSSFIRE. I'm Bill Press.</s>CARLSON: From the right, I'm Tucker Carlson. Join us again Sunday night for another edition of CROSSFIRE. See you then.