Country's Most Undeniable Experts On Border Security Believe Building A Physical Barrier Is A Waste Of Money
CABRERA: The President may be willing to build his promised southern border wall at any cost. But many of the country's most undeniable experts on border security believe building a physical barrier there is not only a waste of money but one that won't work very well. These men and women patrol the border every day as border officers. And CNN's Gray Tuchman road with a sheriff of a border county in Texas who supports President Trump 100 percent except when it comes to that wall.</s>GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Keith Hughes is a border county sheriff in a remote county in Texas where illegal immigration apprehensions have increased. How big of a problem do you think illegal immigration is?</s>SHERIFF KEITH HUGHES, TERRELL COUNTY, TEXAS: I think it's going to devastate our country one of these days if we don't do something about it, if it hasn't already.</s>TUCHMAN: No county on America's southern border gave Donald Trump a bigger win on Election Day than Terrell County. Sheriff Hughes voted for him.</s>HUGHES: I support him 100 percent. I think he has done a great job, so.</s>TUCHMAN: But the President during his oval office speech said professionals want and need a wall. Do you want and need a wall in your county?</s>HUGHES: No, sir, I do not. Either one do not want one, do not need one.</s>TUCHMAN: That's because he says they already have one, a natural one, the Rio Grande which separates the U.S. and Mexico. This stop sign, there may be no other mandatory stop sign in the world because if you don't stop here, it's about a 300 foot drop to the Rio Grande. Which means it is 300 feet up. The sheriffs and others here call these cliffs God's wall which lines the river throughout most of Terrell County. That's why the sheriff has always thought that the concept of a continuous border wall made little sense. Other parts of the county's border though are level as the Rio Grande once with heavy brush. In a plat area like this where it's easier to cross the river, different than they were before?</s>HUGHES: Right.</s>TUCHMAN: And you have this money, would you use any of it for the wall? Would you take all the money and use it for more people and more technology?</s>HUGHES: I wouldn't use it for a wall. Use all the money for technology and people. That money would be better spent on those situations instead of the wall.</s>TUCHMAN: Sheriff Hughes says every dime received should be spent on law enforcement and technology. Terrell County has a small population, but it's about 24 00 square miles. The sheriff only has four deputies and there are very few border patrol agents. Most of the time it's only cows observing migrants swimming across the Rio Grande.</s>HUGHES: The hell with the wall for right now. I mean, it's going to happen, it's going to happen. If it's not, it's not. But we need to quit dwelling on the wall and deal with right now.</s>TUCHMAN: Gary Tuchman, CNN, Terrell County, Texas.</s>CABRERA: Now here's a different perspective from a Texas border control agent in the Rio Grande valley. He told me a wall is necessary. Watch.</s>CHRIS CABRERA, BORDER PATROL AGENT: We do have hundreds and sometimes thousands a day of people coming in to request asylum or to get asylum through the catch and release system. What that does is it ties our hands and we are unable to patrol the other areas where people are out to avoid detection, and ultimately get into the United States. So the wall is necessary down here. There's communities out here that have benefitted greatly from the wall. It's not stopping everybody from coming in, but it is funneling them into areas where we can apprehend them. And unfortunately, a lot of politicians down here will tell you one thing on camera, but behind closed doors, it's a different story just because the wall is such a touchy topic that a lot of local politicians don't want to take a stand against the status quo.</s>CABRERA: I want to bring in someone else who knows the area well, Democratic congressman Henry Cuellar who has represented Texas' 28th district since 2005. His districts includes 290 miles of the southern border. Congressman, good to have you with us. We just heard now from that Texas border patrol agent who says a wall is necessary. Gary Tuchman talked to the Texas sheriff who insist the wall is not necessary. Who is right?</s>REP. HENRY CUELLAR (D), TEXAS: Well, you know, the sheriff is right and border patrol was right in 2012. Let me explain that. If you look at the union patrol back in 2012 their position was that the wall was not necessary because that people could do a tunnel, dig a tunnel, climb over it, and it was useless waste of dollars. So the sheriff is right, and then the border patrol before 2012 were correct on that. So again, I do support border patrol strongly. I want to see more of them hired. In fact, 2000 of them -- there are 2000 of them short. We need to make sure we hire more border patrol and make sure that if we want to stop drugs, look at where drugs come in. Most drugs will come from ports of entry, period. That's where they come from. So we need to modernize our ports and put technology and personnel and k-9s at the ports of entry.</s>CABRERA: Let me just emphasize what you just said because we also saw in a letter from the House speaker Nancy Pelosi outlining what kind of border security improvements Democrats support. She says more technology to scan cars and trucks at the ports of entry, new technology to detect unauthorized crossings, more agents, better port of entry, infrastructure. We have heard President Trump and Republicans express support for those things as well. So that's where everybody agrees. The wall, though, is the big question right now. As someone who represents border communities, do you think Democrats should be willing to pay for a wall in some areas of the border?</s>CUELLAR: Look, there's already 654 miles of fencing across the United States. As the sheriff said a while ago in west Texas, what do you have? You have those large cliffs. I have been there. Those are huge cliffs. Then you have the rivers, the natural boundaries.</s>CABRERA: Right. You don't need a wall there, right?</s>CUELLAR: Yes. That's like he said, that's God's wall. So, again, you know, we already added 654 miles of fencing on it. Now, I would say that back in 2008, this is an important point. Senator Cornyn and myself and a Democratic county judge came up with a compromise in the Bush administration when we did a levy wall. So there are some sort of ways that we can provide flood control and security. The problem is that Washington wants to dictate the type of fencing that where they want to put it. If they would just let the local border patrol chiefs have some independence, and if they can work with the local communities, you would be surprised what they can work on.</s>CABRERA: So just to make sure I'm clear, would you be willing to vote for any legislation that offers some money to walls or steel slats in some places? I know -- I talked to a fellow Democrat like a congressman Garamendi just yesterday who said yes, as long as you specify where the wall is needed and why.</s>CUELLAR: Well, again, like I said a few minutes ago, we have worked out on the past, levy walls. But the local community was involved, and that type of infrastructure if Washington would allow the local community input where they can work along with them, we can come up with some infrastructure. And that's the key. Washington doesn't dictate. It's the local community working with the local border patrol sheriffs and you'll be surprised what they can work on.</s>CABRERA: OK. Here's what the President tweeted this morning suggesting potential negotiations about the wall for DACA protections. He tweeted this. Democrats are saying that DACA is not worth it and don't want to include in talks. Many Hispanics will be coming over to the Republican side. Watch. Congressman, what's your response to that?</s>CUELLAR: Well, again, the President is known to say or tweet so many things that are just not correct. I would just leave it like that. Look, we want to make sure that we have protected dreamers. We want to make sure we also have full immigration reform. We want to see immigration reform. The problem is that the Republicans and the President only wants to talk about certain extreme immigration reforms that they talked about. They don't want to sit down or look at what, you know, we have done in the past. There's a lot of things that have been already drafted that we could work on, but they just don't want -- they -- when they say negotiate, they say take our position and that's how you negotiate. And that's not negotiations.</s>CABRERA: But haven't Democrats in the past offered DACA protections and we will give you the money for the wall?</s>CUELLAR: Some people have. I have not been one of them. I think those are two different things. I think we need to do everything to protect our dreamers and I voted for the dreamers. But the wall is something else. When you protect -- I mean, when you represent, you know, landowners that have had lands for so many years and a government is going to come in and build this fence and keep in mind when you have the river, many a times they have to go up one mile, one mile walk from the bank, you are giving up one mile of territory that becomes a no man's land and that's what we are saying is that, you know, we got to protect private property rights. And again, you will be surprised if we can get together, we can get rid of the</s>CABRERA: OK. Congressman Henry Cuellar, glad to have you with us. Thank you very much.</s>CUELLAR: Thank you so much.</s>CABRERA: We will be right back.