Sources Tell CNN Ex-GOP Rep. Gowdy Accepted Offer to Be Outside Counsel to Trump
BURNETT: Breaking news, former republican Congressman Trey Gowdy now on Team Trump. CNN confirming that the former prosecutor will be working as counsel for the president. Kaitlan is out front so Kaitlin, tell me what you know.</s>KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So basically Erin what we're hearing from sources is that in recent days and weeks Trump allies had reached out to Trey Gowdy asking him if he was going to be able to help the president with this impeachment fight. That is what brought him to the White House today, where we're told by sources he had a meeting with the chief of staff, Mick Mulvaney, and essentially, what he's going to be doing helping with the president -- helping the president with his impeachment strategy from the outside, serving in more of a general counsel role, helping not only the legal aspects, but also the public aspects of this. And this comes as you're seeing this fight inside the administration over how they're going proceed going forward with this impeachment defense strategy because initially we reported last week, the president had been resistant to changes like that. Not only setting up a war room, but also this idea of hiring additional lawyers. So, we are now learning that Trey Gowdy will be helping the president from inside the White House. Right now, he is not expected to join the administration and work internally. Instead, he'll be serving and consulting from the outside.</s>ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: All right. Kaitlan, thank you very much. And Trey Gowdy, of course, was a very powerful figure in Congress, right? He led the Benghazi probe. He's a former federal prosecutor, has sided with Trump on some key things, but not everything and that could be important. Everyone is back with me. Ross, when you see someone like Trey Gowdy, though, who does know Congress so well in addition of being a prosecutor, is this a sign that Team Trump is truly worried now, realizes the gravity of the risk they face?</s>ROSS GARBER, DEFENDED FOUR REPUBLICAN GOVERNORS FACING IMPEACHMENT: Well, whether they're worried or not it just makes good sense. This process whether you call it a so-called impeachment process or impeachment process, this is real. There are real investigations going on. There are real witnesses coming forward. There are real whistle-blowers. This process is real and it should be taken seriously by the White House and the president. It makes good sense to bring in somebody like Trey Gowdy who can help interact with Republicans in Congress.</s>BURNETT: It's interesting on that point. I just want to jump in here because obviously, Trey Gowdy side the with the president on getting rid of Jeff Sessions. You know, he led Benghazi, and you can see from a resume perspective why Trump might look him and think he's great. He's been on Fox News a lot, as well, recently, Kim. But Trey Gowdy is not the kind of person who was always just a sycophant. Not that way, you know. Not at all. Here he is in 2012, they were talking about whether to hold A.G. Holder in contempt on Fast and Furious. The Justice Department refused to hand over some documents and here's what Trey Gowdy said.</s>THEN-REP. TREY GOWDY (R-SC): The notion that you can withhold information and documents from Congress no matter whether you're the party in power or not in power is wrong. Respect for the rule of law must mean something irrespective of the vicissitudes of political cycles.</s>BURNETT: So, Kim, do you think he just doesn't feel that way anymore?</s>KIM WEHLE, FORMER ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY: Well, I think he made the case for why the White House's letter attempting to justify basically stonewalling Congress completely, not with respect to specific issues is flat-out wrong constitutionally. It will be interesting to see if he ends up the Rudy Giuliani of the Ukraine situation, and that is most lawyers in practice would be defending or attempting to defend this on the merits and that is on the facts. And as Gloria mentioned, we don't see that in the letter and given the kind of evidence that's out there out of the president's own mouth, that's very difficult. So, he could be coming onboard to act as the spin person that's going to put out the message that the entire thing is unconstitutional, even though it's in the Constitution, given how things work with Mr. Trump and the loyalty that he expects and the messaging he expects consistent with devotion to him and fidelity to him versus the rule of law and the Constitution. I don't expect Mr. Gowdy to function as a traditional lawyer might.</s>BURNETT: I mean, David Gergen, it's fascinating, though. I mean, Trey Gowdy, no doubt, remember saying that he certainly knows the media, would find it and maybe a few minutes earlier than he expected. But it's pretty hard to say that respect for the rule of law must mean something irrespective of the vicissitudes of political cycles, and you have to hand over documents whether you're the party or not, party in power or not. I don't know if you can swear that with this letter.</s>DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: I don't either, and I think we'll see quite a bit of that tape in the day ahead as these fights continue. I think it is unclear, still, and I think Trey Gowdy is a lawyer and he fights hard. So, he brings to this enterprise the spirit of Trump. Whether he'll agree with him on a lot of the issues and what he'll do is unclear. You know, is he going to actually run the war room for the White House or is he an outside counselor and the White House does that and Mulvaney do it? Who is in charge here? And if they don't figure that out, they're going to be with 6s and 7s inside and have more letters like this. I do think the letter was -- it's not a work of what a law firm would turn out. It's more of a screed.</s>BURNETT: Yes, it certainly, it certainly does not appear to hit that standard by what everyone is saying legally. Gloria, this comes in the context, though, of a new poll. This is the "Washington Post"/Schar School poll and the majority of voters now back the impeachment inquiry, 58 percent. That includes three in ten of Democrats which is a third of Democrats would be significant if it is borne out of other polls and unclear if that will happen, and 57 percent of independents. If these numbers are accurate directionally and how this is moving, how significant is it?</s>GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, it would be very significant because it's up substantially from where it was just a month or two ago. So, I think it would show a change in the American electorate. But again, this thing is just starting, Erin, and so, people are focused on this, and then it will recede a little bit, I would predict, we have to see how this all plays out. We still know that generally, although it's down a little bit, Republicans are still quite loyal to this president and don't by and large support an impeachment inquiry, although that's up, but I -- you know, I do think these things are dangerous right now to read too much into it.</s>BURENTT: They absolutely are because it's unclear. It's early, as you point out. David, a Quinnipiac poll out today on impeachment and the point on what Gloria is making, Republicans, a totally different number, 9 percent. So, I think we'll have to wait and see how these things shake out.</s>BORGER: Yes.</s>GERGEN: Absolutely.</s>BURNETT: But on independence it matches what is in "The Washington Post" poll, 55 percent of Republicans supporting to remind viewers, it was 57 percent in the "Washington Post" poll. What does that say to you, David? You look at the overall population and less than a quarter people are registered as Republican. So independents may matter more?</s>BORGER: Yes.</s>GERGEN: They do matter more. They do matter more, and right from the beginning the question has been, which party is going to get the independent support because that party is likely then to be able to drive not only the numbers up, but then have a big, big voice in what happens. So everybody's watching these polls with great interest. The Quinnipiac poll and "The Washington Post" poll are opposite on some angles such as the Republican, but they both make the same point that Democrats have been making a lot of gains among independents. They could blow it. If this fairness argument gains credibility, if it gains weight, we could be talking about it and that could give the Republicans back on what they're losing.</s>BURNETT: Kim, before we go, I want to ask you, Lindsay Graham, obviously, a Republican senator, has been staunchly behind the president on this issue. He's now saying he wants Rudy Giuliani to testify. You know, Democrats have been leery of that on Republican terms. But Dianne Feinstein seems to be behind this. What do you expect? Rudy Giuliani, will he appear?</s>WEHLE: Well, that's hard to say. I mean, if he appears in the Senate, he's obviously made clear what his terms would be and if that is the way the Senate hearing goes, then it would make it difficult, I think, especially picking up on the process argument and the fairness argument for the House then to come back and ask the kinds of questions the House would want. It's important for people to understand, there's a lot in that letter about due process. Due process tends to apply to criminal proceedings and what the Framers cared about was a government that bullied regular people. That's what due process. Before you can go to jail, before someone could execute you, you'd get process. It's not very accurate frame for an impeachment proceeding, which is really about retaining a job and not withstanding a job that's very difficult to get.</s>BURNETT: Thank you very much. Let me put it up so everyone can see it. Kim, your new book "How to Read the Constitution and Why." All of us Americans could benefit from that right now. Thank you. And next, more on breaking news: the White House calling the impeachment investigation invalid and unconstitutional and one of Trump's staunchest supporters warns it could be a mortal threat to his presidency. One of his staunchest supporters. Also breaking this hour, Bernie Sanders making a big announcement about his campaign going forward? What is he saying? What does it mean?