General Mark Mille Is The New Head Of The Joint Chiefs Of Staff; John Kelly Will Be Leaving White House At The End Of The Year
WHITFIELD: The special counsel says there's a lot, a lot of line rather going on in the Russian investigation. We are getting the specifics of the lies that led to the unraveling of a plea deal for President Trump's former campaign chairman Paul Manafort. Robert Mueller says Manafort lied about five major issues after agreeing to cooperate, including his contact with the Trump administration officials as recently as this spring. With me now is CNN politics reporter Jeremy Herb and political reporter Daniel Lippman. Good to see you both. So Jeremy, you first, so specifics on the kind of lying that may have been taking place in this sentencing document.</s>JEREMY HERB, CNN POLITICS REPORTER: Yes, that's right, Fred. The Mueller document lays out five separate lies that he accuses Paul Manafort of committing after agreeing to cooperate with the special counsel earlier this year. Among the most significant, the interactions with Konstantin Kilimnik who is a Russian national that prosecutors have said has ties to Russian intelligence services. He is also close to Manafort and the two of them were involved in, you know, what the prosecutor said was witness tampering earlier this year, which eventually sent Manafort to prison before he was convicted of charges. In addition to that, we have seen the accusations that Manafort lied about his contacts with White House and administration officials. Mueller says that there are multiple contacts that Manafort had with officials in the administration including in February and in May of 2018. And Mueller has the text messages he says that show these engagements happening. Now what we don't know is who Manafort was talking to and why. And more importantly, why did he lie about those contacts to the special counsel.</s>WHITFIELD: Right. And Daniel, I mean, lying says, you know, you just don't want to share perhaps the context of the discussion. But I mean what could they possibly have been talking about, Manafort and the White House? Any White House officials? Was it, you know, potentially this is what they asked me, this is what I told them, this is the story. I mean, what do you think?</s>DANIEL LIPPMAN, REPORTER/CO-AUTHOR OF PLAYBOOK, POLITICO: It is almost like they were trying to get on the same page. And especially for someone who just got convicted of ten felonies or pled guilty to some of them, the fact he continued to lie to Mueller's folks is just extraordinary. Does he not realize the amount of prosecutorial firepower? This is the best in the business going against, you know, the Trump team. And so you could see a scenario where, you know, Manafort reached out to White House officials when he knows that certain members of this people are going to be witnesses against him or, you know, talk about their interactions with him. And so, if they say -- if he goes to them and says, well, don't say I talked to you, you know, you can see that happening.</s>WHITFIELD: And Jeremy, you know, are these contacts between the White House and Manafort, part of a larger pattern perhaps?</s>HERB: Well, it's interesting. This wasn't the only contacts with White House officials that we learned about yesterday. In the Michael Cohen filing, there's also a separate note that Cohen, part of his cooperation with the Mueller team, was that he had described contacts that he had among officials close to the White House in 2017 and 2018. Again, we don't know what that is getting at and what Mueller is getting at. But you know, the fact this was in both filings suggest there probably is something still there involving these contacts with some of the targets of the Mueller probe.</s>WHITFIELD: All right, Daniel and Jeremy, thanks so much. I'm going to leave there for now. We have got this breaking news.</s>ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.</s>WHITFIELD: Particularly tumultuous times this White House not just dealing with the sentencing documents but now this information into us that President Trump says chief of staff John Kelly will leave at the end of the year. CNN's Boris Sanchez is at the White House for us. These comments coming before the President is to board air force one there.</s>BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Fred. The President departing the White House just now on his ways to Andrews air force base to depart on air force one headed to Philadelphia to the Army/Navy game. The President began his comments to the press talking about heading to that game. He's going to flip the coin there. He also talked about Mark Mille, his new pick to lead the Joint Chiefs of Staff which he announced this morning on twitter. Then he answered some questions from the press about the Russia investigation. The President was asked point-blanc if he directed Michael Cohen to make payments to Stormy Daniels and Karen McDougal. Remember that in the special filing yesterday by the special counsel, it reveals individual one told Michael Cohen to effectively pay off these women as part of the 2016 campaign to keep a sex scandal from preventing President Trump to get to the White House. Any way you read that filing, individual one is clearly President Trump. But he denies ever having directed Michael Cohen to do that. Something that could potentially be a felony. After that, I asked the President specifically if he was aware Paul Manafort was still having conversations with administration officials as recently as May. He ignored my question, Fred, and moved on. That is another revelation coming from the filing by the Robert Mueller yesterday that Manafort as recently as May while he was under indictment was still communicating with the senior administration officials. And lastly, as you noted, the President making the announcement as we've been speculating in recent weeks that chief of staff John Kelly will be departing at the end of the year. He did not state who his successor will be. But sources here at the White House have indicate that the President is likely going to select Nick Ayers. He is currently the vice President's chief of staff -- Fred.</s>WHITFIELD: OK. And so, "Politico" Daniel Lippman, I want to bring you back in to the equation here as you are hearing this reporting from Boris. While the President didn't make any announcements on who might be next, but there's a suspicion it might be the vice president's chief of staff Nick Ayers. What do you make of this potentially at the end of this year that the President says John Kelly is out?</s>LIPPMAN: Yes, just remember that this is an administration --</s>WHITFIELD: And by the way, we are looking at marine one heading to Andrews air force base before the Presidents gets off the Marine one and then gets on air force one. So go ahead.</s>LIPPMAN: Yes, there was promising that John Kelly would be here until 2020. And last I checked, next year is 2019. I think there were a lot of people that were concerned that the relationship between Trump and Kelly had really frayed over the last few months. And they view Nick Ayers as a good choice because he has sharp political instincts. He is a guy who can lead Trump into the, you know, next year which is going to be a huge fight with Democrats in control of Congress. But we should say that there are a number of White House colleagues who might quit because of Ayers. He doesn't have that many internal, you know, friends in the building except for people like Jared and Ivanka and Mike Pence. So, he has friends that matter but some of his White House colleagues view him as sharp elbow.</s>WHITFIELD: Right. I was going to say in Trump's world that really may be the only thing that matters. That you know, he has an affinity for the person and that his daughter and son-in-law also endorsed him. So let's listen now to President Trump. This is at the White House before he got on to marine one which you just saw there. Let's listen in.</s>DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm going now to the Army/Navy game. I think we are going to flip a coin. And I know both teams are going to do great. General Mark Mille as you know was just appointed the head of the Joint Chiefs of Staff to be determined date a little bit later in the year. They usually quite a bit</s>TRUMP: Go ahead. Yes, go ahead.</s>TRUMP: No, no, no.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: John Kelly --</s>TRUMP: Say it.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Does John Kelly still have a job?</s>TRUMP: John Kelly will be leaving. I don't know if I can say retiring, but he is a great guy. John Kelly will be leaving at the end of the year. We will be announcing who will be taking John's place. It might be on an interim basis. I will be announcing that over the next day or two. But John will be leaving at the end of the year. He has been with me almost two years now as you know between the two positions. So we will probably going to see him in a little while. But John Kelly -- ready, are you ready? So John Kelly will be leaving towards the end of the year, at the end of the year. And I appreciate his service very much. Thank you. Thank you all.</s>WHITFIELD: Very short there. Boris Sanchez at the White House there. So the President, you know, addressing a few things. Like you mentioned his, you know, the chair of the joint chiefs. Mueller actually saying he is happy about the way things are going. The way we are reading it. It's turning around very nicely. But that, you know, he really was kind of bearing the lead on that with his chief of staff who is on his way out, John Kelly. It had been reported, Boris, that they hadn't been speaking recently. That the relationship was rather tenuous. What are your sources telling you about their relationship and how it has crumbled or how this has led to -- how their relationship has led to this demise that is leaving?</s>SANCHEZ: Well, Fred, it's gone through a number of tasks. As was noted earlier, John Kelly had been asked to stay on as chief of staff through 2020. Now it appears he is going to be leaving before the end of the year. As you recall, when he first came in, he was replacing Reince Priebus who many in the administration felt was too lax on the President and didn't do enough to try to rein in who was seeing the President and when. There was sort of an open door to the oval office and many felt that contributed to what was perceived as chaos within the White House. When chief of staff Kelly came in, he installed new rules about who could see the President and when. He tried to tamp down on leaks by preventing staffers from taking their cell phones into certain parts of the White House. They would have to leave them in lockers and so forth. But ultimately, Kelly faced a number of controversies himself with comments that he made about people enrolled in DACA as well as the controversial phone call the President had with the family of sergeant David Thompson. Recalled that he passed away in Niger and there was a dispute between his family and the President over specifically what was said. And ultimately, John Kelly tried to defend the President. That got him in hot water as well. Over time what we have seen is essentially a reversion to that sort of chaos that we saw early on in the administration where John Kelly's power was reduced within the administration. There were reports of him having shouting matches with the national security adviser John Bolton and continuously threatening to resign a number of times. Ultimately, it appears their relationship frayed and now John Kelly is on the way out. Nick Ayers is -- as I noted previously, who many here at the White House have pointed to as a potential successor. There is some friction between he and others within the administration. He really built rapport with the President through lunches that the President would have with vice President Mike Pence. Sources tell CNN at one specific lunch late last year, the President invited Ayers and John Kelly in to be sort of a team of people having lunch and that continued throughout and that's how Ayers continued to build a rapport with the President. Ayers, of course, is a very distinguished political background, having worked for a number of prominent Republicans including Sonny Perdue of Georgia. He also work for the Republican governors association. He brings a pedigree of political awareness that many have complained to the President John Kelly does not have. That will likely serve the President going into 2020 if he, in fact, does replace the current chief of staff, Fred.</s>WHITFIELD: All right. I also want to bring into the conversation "RELIABLE SOURCES" anchor Brian Stelter. So Brian, the President, you know, boarding air force one there. He is on the way to Philadelphia for the Army/Navy game where he will be, you know, doing the coin toss. This is his opportunity also to change the subject. While he did address Mueller, he also dismissed it as you know it's turning around nicely. He doesn't seemed threatened all by it. But now that he has mentioned his chief of staff who has been with him for a couple of years now, close to a couple of years now. John Kelly on the way out this year. What signals is the President sending?</s>BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: I think he's trying to change the subject, but he is changing something from one bad story to another bad story. This amount of turmoil is never good for any White House. And even if the President enjoys drama and infighting and he enjoys this kind of turmoil and turnover, it's not good for the country than if it might good for the President or he might think it is good in the short term. Look, I think the big headline here is that John Kelly was expected to stay on until 2020. That's what Trump said he wanted. He wanted the chief of staff to stay on for a while longer. All of a sudden, that's not happening anymore. And our colleague Kaitlan Collins reporting was spot on. She said yesterday morning this was going to happen soon. The question is how soon. Collins said in the coming days we would see John Kelly leaving and sure enough, here we are with a confirmation from the president. Two details from Kaitlan's reporting I think were really important. First was that, she said Kelly and Trump had stopped speaking in recent days. The two men were no longer speaking. Obviously, you can't be the chief of staff if you are not speaking to the boss. And number two, Kaitlan pointed out on twitter that Trump is allowing Kelly a graceful exit. That is pretty rare in the trump administration. Maybe at some point down the line Kelly will be called dumb as rocks or whatever she said about Tillerson yesterday. But for now at least trump is trying --.</s>WHITFIELD: It depends on what he says publicly, right?</s>STELTER: Exactly, right. For the moment, at least, they are departing on positive terms so that might be a positive sign. But overall, it's never positive to see this much turnover in a White House. It is rare to see another chief of staff change so soon in the first term of the presidency.</s>WHITFIELD: OK. Political reporter Daniel Lippman also back with us. So Daniel, what message does this send that this relationship that at first between John Kelly and the President, you know, seems so great, and now, you know, no speaking terms and an exit?</s>LIPPMAN: Yes, it's kind of a reminder what people have told me which is, you know, working for the President almost never leads to good things for you. And so, while it may be great to have this big White House job or be the secretary of state, inevitably things turn on a coin. And things go south. And that's what we see with almost every person that has worked for Trump. Paul Manafort, he, you know, has ten felonies no. Michael Cohen, he is facing, you know, three to four years in jail. Reince Priebus, you know, his reputation, you know, took a little bit of a hit when he was chief of staff.</s>WHITFIELD: With that precedence then, you wonder why anyone would now say yes to an opportunity.</s>LIPPMAN: It's hard to just get a job in the White House -- or it's hard to find people in the White House who would face such a harsh working environment. And so that's just the case with Trump world. Now it's very tough to attract top talent. Nick Ayers is kind of the only one left standing who would want that job and is trusted by the family.</s>WHITFIELD: So what do you know about Nick Ayers and why he would? I mean, we don't know he said yes. But you know, that the President did say it. We know reportedly that he would likely be the one. But then why would Nick want that job?</s>LIPPMAN: I think Nick is a very ambitious person. And he is also built a rapport with Mike Pence that has led him to this point. And he feels - he is a loyal Republican. And so he feels he can make a difference. And he might be the most successful chief yet. We don't know. But it also depends on what his priorities are. He doesn't have a huge background in policy. And so, that's a question some Republicans are wondering if he wants to build some policy, wins next year with a Democratic House. Does Nick have those relationships on the Democratic side of the aisle? Probably not.</s>WHITFIELD: OK. And Brian, you have something more to add on John Kelly?</s>STELTER: Yes. I think it's interesting to think back four months ago, the end of July, that is when Kelly announced to his entire senior staff that the President asked him to stay on through 2020 and that he agreed to stay on through 2020. Because back in over the summer, it was one of these periods of rumors that Kelly was about to leave, you know, there had been rumors about that all along the time of Kelly's tenure as chief of staff.</s>WHITFIELD: Yes. There had been like some really loud exchanges that precipitated that kind of brand.</s>STELTER: Yes. But back then, at least at the end of July, Kelly said yes, I'm going to stay on through 202. The President might have asked me to stay even longer but I'm committing through 2020. So you have to wonder what has led to this blowup now. Well, one answer may be our colleague's reporting yesterday about Mueller, about the fact that Kelly did speak to the Robert Mueller investigators who were looking into obstruction issues - obstruction of justice by the President. That could be one of many factors. But what we know from our colleague Kaitlan Collins is that the two men did stop speaking recently. And obviously, the chief of staff job is one of the most important unelected roles in the United States. He has to decide who goes in, who goes out. So for the two men not to be on speaking terms means this was going to have to come to an end. And it will be interesting to hear Kelly's version of events because right now Trump is being relatively kind to Kelly on the way out.</s>WHITFIELD: Right. And everyone always seems to be eventually talk - I mean, Rex Tillerson. It may take a few months, but they eventually express themselves.</s>STELTER: I always think back to what Reince Priebus said, right. Reince Preibus, the first chief of staff, he famously said to an author, whatever you have heard, whatever you think, it's always worse. It was 50 times even wilder than you can imagine. So Kelly tried to bring order. Kelly tried to bring some sort of structure. Some folks thought of Kelly as an adult trying to supervise. But we started the year, Fred, with the book "Fire and Fury," Michael Wolfe's book. That was the first week of January. All about the chaos in the White House. And here we are now in December at the end of the year once again seeing a period of turmoil.</s>WHITFIELD: Playing it out now in real time. OK, Brian, Boris, and Daniel, thank you so much. As air force there one takes off on the way to Philadelphia. The President will be doing the coin toss there at the Army/Navy game. We have much more straight ahead after this.