Police in U.S. Becoming Militarized?
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.</s>DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, everyone. I'm Don Lemon. Breaking news tonight. I'm live in Missouri.</s>ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Don, it's great to have you on the ground out there. I'm Alisyn Camerota here in New York.</s>LEMON: We have all the breaking details for you. I want to tell you now about police. We're hearing now that the police officer's name will be released tomorrow, the man who shot Michael Brown. We're hearing that here from Ferguson tonight. I want you to take a look around, though, before we get to the breaking news. Look around us. This is not a war zone. These are people who have gathered here peacefully. They want some tough questions answered. They have gathered here with signs. And they're here with a number of people who can talk to us about what is going on. We have to answer a lot of questions. Number one, do we want our police to be armed with military equipment? And number two about race in America, where more and more black men feel as if they have targets on their backs. Do we want our citizens to feel that way, Alisyn?</s>CAMEROTA: And, Don, just to catch everyone up, Michael Brown was shot five days ago there in Ferguson. But we still don't know exactly what happened. We don't know who started the fight or who pulled the trigger on that initial shot. When will we get those answers? We're going to get into all of that tonight. So let's go back to Don Lemon live in Ferguson.</s>LEMON: All right, thank you very much, Alisyn. Joining me now is a man who has been in charge of security now, and that is Captain Ron Johnson of the Missouri Highway Patrol. Also with us is Chief Jon Belmar of the Saint Louis county police department. And with us as well is major Ronnie Robinson of the Saint Louis City Police Department. We have everyone here who knows about the investigation. Again, before we get into all of that, it is a very different scene here. People feel that they can express themselves. They don't feel like they're in an occupied zone. What is going on tonight that makes it different?</s>CAPT. RON JOHNSON, MISSOURI STATE HIGHWAY PATROL: Well, I think that we have a different approach that we're using this evening. And I think people are out here expressing their feelings, seeing old friends, sharing emotions, sharing pain, but also talking how we can heal and how we need to get better and holding people accountable. And the people they're holding accountable are the people that are standing here in front of you today.</s>LEMON: Can you tell me -- the breaking news at the top of the show is that they're going to release the name of the police officer who shot Michael Brown. What do you know about that?</s>JON BELMAR, ST. LOUIS COUNTY, MISSOURI, POLICE CHIEF: I know that's been discussed. That's been a topic for the last two days on the timing on that, when it's going to happen. There's a lot of dynamics around that. I think it's not unusual to withhold those names. But I think in this case there has been some serious talk between the prosecuting attorney's office and the Ferguson Police Department on the timing of when that is going to happen. So I do think we're probably going to learn something in the next day or so. As far as I know, it's not happened tonight.</s>LEMON: It's not happening tonight. But we're hearing that it will happen tomorrow. Is that a possibility?</s>BELMAR: Right. So that's very unusual. But with the -- everything going on here, it's been discussed at the very highest levels. And that's a decision that the Ferguson Police Department will be making. I'm sure they're getting that in order right now.</s>LEMON: Can you tell us where we are in the investigation now?</s>BELMAR: So we have talked about that quite a bit. But the investigation is being completed right now. One of the struggles that we had was making sure that certain things came into the investigation, witnesses, different evidence that had to be analyzed. One of the things we'd like to do is go back seven days later, or eight days later, rather, and take a look at it again to try to capture anybody that could have been there at the time. We want to talk to everybody. And then eventually, everybody, every shred of evidence, every witness statement, every piece of evidence will be presented to a grand jury so they can look at it. And they will make that determination.</s>LEMON: Sergeant, we have been watching. I have been here all afternoon. I have seen the crowd building. People have been coming up to me saying , thank you guys for being here. We're so happy that you're here. We feel different. We don't feel intimidated now. There is traffic backed up for a mile in both directions, and hundreds, if not thousands of people are out here. What is different tonight? Why does this feel so different?</s>MAJ. RONNIE ROBINSON, CITY OF ST. LOUIS POLICE DEPARTMENT: Because we came out and we engaged the crowd. We engaged the community. We have been talking to a lot of people all day. We started early this evening, talking to people when they were expressing themselves about the tragedy that happened in the community. We want them to know that we're just as concerned about what happened as they are. We want peace. They have a right to protest. If they want to protest 24 hours a day, they can do that. We're going to be right here with them, making sure that everything is peaceful. And we feel the pain in the community and we want to find out other things that may be in the underlying surface that we can address to try to heal the community.</s>LEMON: Captain, but we don't want to get ahead of ourselves. This is still a potentially volatile situation?</s>JOHNSON: You know, I think anything can change. But, you know, today I see a lot peace. I see a lot of smiles. I smiled more today than have I in the last few days. I'm not thinking what could be. I'm thinking about what is.</s>LEMON: What happened last night?</s>JOHNSON: You know, I'm not going talk about last night. But I can tell you, when I went to bed last night, I prayed for a better day, and we have got a better day. And don't want to live last night. And then I won't have to go down on my knees and say the prayer I said last night again.</s>LEMON: What about the military-type tactics and equipment that we saw last night? That was a big concern. I know you don't want to talk about it, but I have to ask you the question.</s>JOHNSON: I tell you, we have changed that. We have taken gas masks off. You're not seeing officers with gas masks on their legs. And we're not going to -- they're not going to put them back on. But I can tell you, we will protect the safety of the people in this community. We will protect the health and welfare of the small business owners in this business, because I can tell you, I walk down the street and saw my favorite barbecue restaurant with boards on it. And that's a small business person that makes our community. And there are several small businesses that make this community. And when this is over, I'm going to ride up and down this roadway and go to those restaurants and the bars down the street and have me a beer or two. And so we are going to preserve that. And this is my community. I walked down here and saw people from my church, people I went to school with and people that I feel that are a part of this. And the frustration is in my household too. I have got a young son that is 21 and a daughter that is 23. And I have to answer the same questions that the parents out here have to answer.</s>LEMON: And those are?</s>JOHNSON: Can my son and daughter walk the streets and feel safe? Can my son and daughter walk with pride? And I'm going to make sure I do everything that they can have that. Michael Brown's parents, I can't imagine losing a son. And my heart goes out to them. And I guarantee you that everyone here will have a chance to speak their mind. They can stay as long as they want. The only thing that I ask, that we keep our streets clear. But if you want to stand on the sidewalk, you want to stand in this lot, you can stay as long as you want.</s>LEMON: I noticed that today, and I noticed, because I was actually in New York on the anchor desk last night watching the unrest happen here. But when I walked up today, there was no fear. Have you been out speaking to people, and what are they telling you?</s>BELMAR: You know, the interesting thing about tonight is there is a lot of energy here tonight, but it's positive energy. And that's a new thing. We saw a lot of energy over the last few nights, but it wasn't positive like it is today. There has been a true change. There really has been.</s>LEMON: Are you saying -- is this an admission from you that the tactics were -- that police handled the last couple of nights wrong?</s>BELMAR: I would like to explain that a little bit, though. The energy here is better. But regardless of the optics -- and I had an opportunity to talk to Reverend Sharpton this morning, and he called me at home. The optics are not pretty. And if you're here personally over the last few nights, you have seen that. What we're proud of, though, is, not one protester, not one rioter, and most importantly the people that live in this community have been seriously injured during this. So I'm sorry about the optics. I understand that. But this positive energy here tonight, it is really -- it encourages me.</s>LEMON: But the citizens are saying, listen, there is always one in a crowd. And the citizens are saying that they are the ones who are being intimidated by police. And they feel like they were positive for the most part, but officers weren't positive.</s>BELMAR: I understand the perception in the community about that. I honestly do. And, again, we just want to build on the atmosphere here tonight to make sure that everything stays as safe as it possibly can.</s>LEMON: What does not only Ferguson, but North County and police municipalities around this area need to do? Because there are many people who live in the Missouri area who say they feel like they're under -- they're in militarized zones, that they're occupied. What do they need to do? The police -- do police need to reflect the community that they serve in?</s>ROBINSON: I believe in true diversity. I do. I think a police department should reflect the community that they serve. And I think that should be part of the strategies as far as every agency and every police department throughout the United States, so people will know the cultures of different people. All kind of people make a community. And if you got people in your agency that know the culture already, we can spread that type of knowledge amongst all officers so we can build a rapport and trust with the community again.</s>LEMON: Captain, what do you want people to know? Because people are watching around -- we're being simulcast around the world. What do you want people to know about -- the whole world is watching Ferguson.</s>JOHNSON: I want people to know that the reason we're out here today, the reason we're hurting, the reason we know we need to make some changes and make our community better, and I don't want it lost, I don't want it lost, is because of this young man right here there. It's not about personal egos. It's not about -- it's about -- right -- it's about the justice for everyone. And we need to make sure that everyone feels that way. But I don't want anybody out here to forget that this is why we're here. We're not going to always agree. We're not going to always agree, but I can tell you that if our intent is to make things better, and it's sure that our kids know that they're going grow up in a better place and that their voice means something, no matter what your race, no matter what your age is. So let's not forget this. Even in our anger, in our toughest moments, when we're at our height, when we're just so angry, let's remember this as a calming force.</s>LEMON: Someone just handed you that picture in the crowd. But as you say that, yet we stand here, and there is a burned-out convenience store and gas station. That's not how you want this area to be remembered, I'm sure.</s>BELMAR: You know what? I grew up here too and went to restaurants and gyms right down the street. I don't want to see this happen to this area. I have friends who live down here. We used to buy cars down here.</s>LEMON: Can I ask you something?</s>LEMON: Finish your thought.</s>BELMAR: Bottom line is, this area means something to all of us. And what I want to see happen at the end of this is for this community to be rebuilt, be vibrant, and for the good people that live here to be able to enjoy their commerce and conveniences.</s>LEMON: So people here and around the country believe that many whites in this country don't understand the relationship between blacks, especially black men, young black men, and police, and there needs to be some rebuilding. What do you say to that, as a white officer here?</s>BELMAR: I say that regardless of how good we are of building bridges, regardless of how we are -- how good we communicate, that it's important that we always strive to do a better job. It's important that we have diversity in our work force. It's important that I make sure that commanders are selected on the department that represent our community, especially our African- American community. And that's happening.</s>LEMON: Is there a disconnect, do you think, though?</s>BELMAR: You know what? I think that depends where you are and the circumstance we find ourselves in. But I see less of a disconnect now than I did 28 years ago. And I hope that continues to change.</s>LEMON: Do you have a message to the family, especially, Chief, especially since you're handling the investigation? And I'm sure they may be watching tonight.</s>BELMAR: My goodness, I'm a father too. But I tell you what. I spent seven years as the lieutenant in charge of homicide. And at the end of the day, we work for the victims, and we work for the victims' families. And we try to be their voice, because, at this point in time, we perhaps are the only voice they have left.</s>LEMON: And, so, listen, we're standing. We're surrounded by people. They came when you walked up. These people were here hugging you. They weren't hugging the officers for the past week, past four or five days.</s>JOHNSON: I tell you what. I'm filled with a lot of pride.</s>LEMON: What is the difference, though? Why are they responding to you so differently?</s>JOHNSON: Because I think they know what that I'm telling them is true, that my feelings are true and my feelings are honest. And I made a promise. And I made a promise about integrity. Integrity is something I can't get back. Trust is something that is hard to gain, but easy to lose. And I think I have got their trust. And I am going to do everything I can to maintain their trust. And each morning, we're going have an interview, we're going have a news interview, press conference, and we're going to talk about facts and what is going on. And they're going know what is going on. If they have got questions, I will give them answers.</s>LEMON: Is it important that the officer's name be released? Because a lot of people are demanding it, transparency.</s>JOHNSON: I think it's important that we have open dialogue between each other and that information is given out, because, without information given out, then we come up with our own answers. And if there is a feeling that someone feels that it was me and my name would be given out, then that feeling has to be the same on the other end.</s>LEMON: As a black officer in this area, do you think there is a disconnect between the African-American community and the police?</s>ROBINSON: I think that depends on the individuals. You know, you got individuals that can communicate with anybody, no matter what color or race they are, whatever age they are. You have to be professional at all times. And, as commanders, we to make sure that our officers are trained properly and that they know how to communicate and understand that you need to get to learn a people and know a people before you can just order and tell them what to do. You have got to give respect in order to get respect. And that's what we have been doing all day long since we hit the ground out here is giving respect to the citizens out here. I want to hear your story. I want to know what else is going on also. The event, the platform that started this whole thing and ignited this has the world's eye on us right now. We cannot let this be for vain. We cannot get involved in violence, looting, hurting and stealing and killing and hurting one another. We got to let everybody know that we can be organized and we got a point of view to express through the justice system. There needs to be transparency. There needs to be justice. And if any wrongdoing was done, we need to take care of that issue and we need to take care of it correctly.</s>LEMON: Listen, there is some very real concern, and I spoke to these guys about it, about the military equipment that these police departments are getting from the government because of the overflow from Iraq and from Afghanistan. And these are -- these police departments look like they are members of the military. People feel like they are being occupied. That is a real concern. What's going -- should that be happening?</s>JOHNSON: You know, you have to understand and look at every case, every case, every scenario differently and see what it poses as far as a threat and danger to the community. We got individuals that travel our streets with the same weapons. So we are to arm ourselves and be prepared to handle those type of situations. And we have to be smart and professional about when we utilize that type of weaponry. So there is a reason to have it and there are reasons not to use it at certain times. And we need to be professional enough to understand that.</s>LEMON: OK. The captain said that he is going to give a press conference every single day and give as much information as possible. Can we get that promise when it comes to the investigation? Because, again, it's about transparency, Chief.</s>BELMAR: Yes, it is. And the bottom line is, I spoke about it just about 24 hours ago, just about the investigation, what the process was going to be. And the prosecuting attorney spoke about it at length yesterday. So we're trying to get a timeline out there to know what people expect, know what the process is, and so they understand that transparency, because there will be an answer at the end of the day.</s>LEMON: Have you -- in the beginning, many witnesses had not been interviewed. Where are you in that process?</s>BELMAR: So we think we're probably at the tail end of that process. But we want to make sure that if anybody is out there that has a voice in this investigation, it's our responsibility to identify them, hear them, and present that to that grand jury.</s>LEMON: Where are we as far as whether Michael Brown was -- the alleged altercation that supposedly happened in the car, what do we know than? Because we had two witnesses on last night who said they saw Michael Brown trying to get away from the officer, and the officer was trying to hold him back in the car. And then once Michael Brown got away, he went about 25, 30 feet and then the officer kept firing, even though he had his hands up in the surrender position, kept firing even as he lay on the ground, until he died.</s>BELMAR: That's an outstanding question. And I know that people want answers to that. But until I even have a clear answer of the entire story from talking to all the witnesses and reviewing all the reports, I don't have the ability to answer that right now. But I do appreciate the question.</s>JOHNSON: I got to tell you, when we have these answers, we will give those answers. And when we have answers to give, we will give answers. It's my hope when I stand up there each day and talk to you, I have something to tell you, I have some information to give out, because what I don't is for rumors to be the answer. We need facts.</s>LEMON: Even the president speaking out about this situation, of course, talking about the family of Michael Brown and talking about members of the police department. What do you make of the president's -- were you able to listen to the president's comments today?</s>JOHNSON: I have not heard it today. I'm sure I will watch it when I get home tonight.</s>LEMON: Were you able to listen?</s>ROBINSON: Yes, I was. I think the president was on point with his views and his concerns. And I really heard the word transparency when he spoke. We have to have transparency. We have to. But we also have to have patience. And this investigation is going to be so important to the whole world that we have to be very meticulous with it. We have to dot all our I's and cross all our T's and let the public know as we move along and what develops and let them know and give them the information that need -- that they're concerned about.</s>LEMON: Guys, thank you. Sir, I'm so happy to be here today and be to be able to tell this story and to witness the difference and the change that has happened just over the last couple of hours. And, again, still, I would think you would agree with me, we're not out of the woods yet, because it's still a potentially volatile situation. But it certainly is a marked change from before. Thank you very much.</s>LEMON: Thank you. I appreciate you joining us. Thank you so much. Thank you very much. And, listen, I want to tell everybody just before they go, they walked up just a couple minutes before we went on the air. I wasn't sure I was going to have them on the air. And then -- and when they walked up, the crowd just gathered around them. And you could feel the support. They're around us not because necessarily they want to be on television, not because necessary by they're angry. They're around us because they're supporting this captain and they're supporting the people here. And they just want their voices to be heard. Also in the crowd with me tonight is CNN's Jake Tapper. Jake, I can't see you, but where are you and what are you seeing?</s>JAKE TAPPER, CNN CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: I'm down the street, Don. As has been noted, it is a peaceful demonstration going on here, although a boisterous one as well, no violence, none of the militaristic items that we saw from police in previous days. In fact, the police presence seems relatively minimal. They have been blending in with the crowd, a lot of people out talking about wanting, needing justice for the family of Michael Brown, a lot of people holding up their hands with the chant, don't shoot -- hands up, don't shoot, repeating, replicating what Michael Brown is said to have done that night, as the story goes, that he had his hands up when he was shot, although, of course, as the officers noted, there is still much about that night that we don't know. Just to give people an idea of the geography here, you are down there about a block away. This is Canfield, the street behind me. This is the street on which Michael Brown was visiting his grandmother. And it's a street about a block that way where he was shot and killed on Saturday. But, as you can see, this has become an event nightly. And tonight it is an event that is -- I wouldn't say it's jubilant at all, because people are protesting, but it is much less fearful than it has been in previous nights. People are holding up their hands. There is a sense of community here. It is a relatively diverse group. You do see whites, African-Americans, Latinos, grandmothers, children. There are some New Black Panthers here who have been helping to keep traffic flowing. There are other groups with bandannas around their face. They say that's in solidarity with the Internet hackers Anonymous, who have been supportive of their cause, they say. That's the reason. In any case, so far, we seem to have avoided detection by the crowds, which is stunning to me. But there are people right now behind us saying, "Hands up, don't shoot." I don't know why that Chucky doll is there. That's odd -- in any case, Don, back to you.</s>LEMON: Thank you. Thank you. Jake, thank you very much. And, Alisyn, I do have to say that the moment I got here, it was a little bit tense driving in then. But once I got into the crowd, it was interesting because we -- all that we have seen on television for the past couple days is fear, fear, fear, and violence, violence, violence. I didn't feel any of that. Just to be honest with you, the only thing people wanted to do here is to be heard, to be felt that their voices were heard. They wanted to know that people understood their feelings, that they felt intimidated, they felt they were occupied by a police force. They were tired of discrimination happening over -- just over years and years and years. I have lived in this community. So I know the disconnect between the police department's police officers and the community. I didn't feel any of that fear, people walking up to me saying, thank you, I'm so glad that you're here. Please tell our story. It's all in the handling of the situation.</s>CAMEROTA: Yes.</s>CAMEROTA: Don, I agree. I was going ask you how much of a role you think Captain Johnson has had. He seems like such a voice of reason.</s>LEMON: Huge. Huge.</s>CAMEROTA: And from the moment that he had that press conference this afternoon, during which he said, we are in this together, he said, I'm going to be in the crowd tonight.</s>LEMON: Yes.</s>CAMEROTA: We're all in it together. And the fact that he comes from that community, he seems like a real voice of reason. And it seems like he in particular has changed the tone since last night.</s>LEMON: Yes. You know, when you say -- when you and I met, and I said, you know what? I can relate to you. You can relate to me. That's what people -- and, listen, don't get me wrong. I think there is a difference in that he is African-American and people want to see someone who is in a position of authority, especially a police officer, who looks like them, who relates to them, who understands their plight...</s>CAMEROTA: Right.</s>LEMON: ... and who doesn't treat them like they are some criminal on the street before they before -- before they find out exactly what is going on. They want to know that someone understands their story and gives them the benefit of the doubt. The same benefit of the doubt that you give a police officer, you should give that same benefit of the doubt to an unarmed young black man, Alisyn.</s>CAMEROTA: Of course. And, Don, that raises the issue of the disparity in the Ferguson Police Department, why there are only three black officers, when the population is 63 percent black. So we're going to get into all of that, Don.</s>LEMON: Right.</s>CAMEROTA: And I can't wait to hear more of what you experienced today and what people have been telling you on the street. So stick around, because, when we come back, tomorrow -- and you just heard it there -- police say they will identify the officer who shot the unarmed black teenager Michael Brown. So when will we get some more answers? We're going to speak to a man whose family has long been involved in the struggle for civil rights, Martin Luther King III.</s>LEMON: Look at that. It looks like a burned-out relic of a war zone. It wasn't that way -- that's the QuikTrip behind me. It wasn't that way on Saturday when Michael Brown and his family left here walking towards his apartment building. Since then, it has become the place where protesters gather, and also where the media is gathering as well. Again, it's a QuikTrip. Not far down the street is where Michael Brown lives. If you can see the red light over there, just a couple of yards, couple hundred yards that way, read this. "Don't shoot. Don't shoot our youth, our future."