Is It Right for Democrats to Criticize Bush While Country Is at War?
SEN. TOM DASCHLE, (D-SD), SENATE MAJORITY LEADER: But the continued success I think is still somewhat in doubt.</s>SEN. ROBERT BYRD (D), WEST VIRGINIA: Where is the end? Where is the end?</s>BILL PRESS, CO-HOST: Tonight, Democrats on the war path. Is it right for them to be taking on the president while we're still at war? And start your engines. Is the government trying to take away your SUV?</s>ANNOUNCER: Live from Washington, CROSSFIRE. On the left, Bill Press. On the right, Robert Novak. In the crossfire, Democratic Congressman Eliot Engel of New York, a member of the International Relations Committee and Republican Congressman John Sununu from New Hampshire, member of the Appropriations Committee. And later, Carl Pope, executive director of the Sierra Club and Jerry Taylor from the Cato Institute.</s>PRESS: It's CROSSFIRE. Thanks for joining us. For five months, nobody dared criticize President Bush on the war on terror, but those days are over. Democrats, led by West Virginia's Senator Robert Byrd, have opened fire. How can we say the war in Afghanistan is such a success, they ask, if Osama bin Laden's still on the loose? And with American troops now in Afghanistan, the Philippines, and the Republic of Georgia what's the new game plan, if there is one, and where does it end? Republicans say that's just one step short of treason. How dare anybody criticize the war effort when there are American troops on the ground overseas. There you've got it tonight. Tonight, welcome to the war over the war. Bob Novak.</s>ROBERT NOVAK, CO-HOST: Congressman Eliot Engel, not all Democrats are criticizing the president. And I'd like to get testimony from a Democrat who has a perfectly safe district, who is a very shrewd politician, and unlike most of us, was a war hero. Let's listen to Congressman Charlie Rangel of Harlem.</s>REP CHARLES RANGEL (D), NEW YORK: I don't think it serves the country well to be critical of the president, especially in time of war. And indeed, I think we're fortunate to have a president that has been able to bring together so many friends and allies against a terrorism that struck us.</s>NOVAK: Now Eliot, I'd like to know where you line up? Do you line up with Senator Byrd, the great master of the pork barrel, the former wizard of the Ku Klux Klan, or with Charlie Rangel, the brown star winner from New York City?</s>REP. ELIOT ENGEL (D), INTL. RELATIONS CMTE.: Well let me say, first of all, I think that members of Congress have an absolute right to question. That's what we're elected for. I don't think anybody is criticizing the president. I, as well as the entire Congress and the Senate, support the president in his war about terrorism. But I think when we're talking about the pocketbook and we're talking about the budget, as it relates to the war on terrorism, I think that members of Congress have a right to ask questions.</s>NOVAK: So I you line up with Bob Byrd, rather than Charlie Rangel?</s>ENGEL: Well, I line up with Bob Byrd in asking questions. I may not agree with everything he says, but he certainly has the right to ask these questions, as do all members of Congress.</s>NOVAK: One of the things that Senator Byrd said, he seemed to have some concern that we were going after terrorists, we being the United States, we're going after terrorists, all over the world, wherever they might be. He thought that that was excessive. I'd like to you tell us which terrorists you wouldn't go after, since it isn't wise to go after all the terrorists? Just me give a little list of the terrorists, who under the Byrd rule, you would not go after?</s>ENGEL: I think we have to go after all the terrorists.</s>NOVAK: Oh, you disagree with Byrd on that then?</s>ENGEL: Well, I think that we have to go and destroy the terrorist cells wherever they are. I was not one of the Democrats who criticized the president for his axis of evil remarks.</s>NOVAK: That's going to take a long time, right?</s>ENGEL: Well, I even think we should add countries to the axis of evil, like Syria.</s>NOVAK: OK, so you would disagree completely with Senator Byrd -- that Senator Byrd's main proposition?</s>ENGEL: No, Senator Byrd was questioning about where we're going to get the money to do all this. You know with these huge tax cuts, we don't have money. And this is a problem. Which will we choose, the tax cuts or fighting the war on terrorism?</s>PRESS: Congressman Sununu, candidate for senator from New Hampshire, welcome.</s>REP JOHN SUNUNU (R), APPROPRIATIONS CMTE.: Thank you.</s>PRESS: I think -- I'd like us to start on a point that I'm sure you and I agree on. I mean, Senator Lott today, came out and said how dare Senator Daschle question anything about this effort, while there's troops on the ground? I mean, I remember under President Clinton, Republicans criticized the presence of troops in Bosnia. They criticized the presence of troops in Kosovo. I never called them traitors at the time or suggested they were. Surely you agree that it's OK to question an ongoing war effort, without the being labeled a traitor? Is it allowed? Sure. Is it bad policy, what Senator Daschle was talking about? Is it bad politics? I think that's true as well. We have Senator Byrd saying well, you know, we may be deployed too far. We've got to look at reigning in. We have Senator Daschle saying let's go, let's move, let's get Osama bin Laden. Of course, we're going to go after bin Laden. Of course, we're going to go after anyone in al Qaeda or the Taliban that hasn't been brought justice. But at the same time, the president was unequivocal when he first laid out our priorities in this war. It will take time. We will be in more places than Afghanistan. We know al Qaeda has had cells in the Philippines, in Sudan, in Somalia, in Yemen. We've seen already seen activity in those places. And that's got to continue.</s>PRESS: Well, I guesss that's the question is where are we going? And is there, in fact, an exit strategy? Or do we just keep going until we, I don't know, run out of countries? Let's listen to Senator Byrd from the wild and wonderful state of West Virginia. Here's Senator Byrd.</s>BYRD: Now we're talking about going into Georgia, the Republic of Georgia. And now it's Yemen. Where is the end? Where is the end?</s>PRESS: And he doesn't even mention the Philippines, right? I mean, so as a member of Congress, are you just giving a blank check to keep sending troops to any country he thinks of, for as long as he wants to?</s>SUNUNU: We're supporting, as a member of the Budget Committee, the president's priorities he laid out in the state of the union. National security and winning the war on terrorism, homeland security, and getting the economy moving right back here at home. There is no question it's going to take better technology, additional unmanned aircraft surveillance, F-22s, munitions that we used in Afghanistan.</s>PRESS: The question is any country he wants to, sending troops without consulting with Congress, you don't care?</s>SUNUNU: No, it's not a matter not consulting with Congress. And the president has consulted with Congress. Secretary Rumsfeld has consulted with Congress. It is a matter of achieving the objectives that he laid out very clearly in the week after September 11. We need to strike at al Qaeda. We need to destroy their ability to wage terrorist acts against the United States or our allies, wherever they may be, destroying their facilities, taking out their leadership, taking out their command and control. That's what winning this war on terrorism is abou. And if it means moving further afield into the Philippines, supporting them technically, or into Somalia or Sudan, that's going to be supported by the Congress.</s>NOVAK: Congressman Engel, I don't quite understand where you're coming from, because I guess I gather from our last -- one other change you don't agree with Bob Byrd that we can't go into all these places where there are al Qaeda elements, whether they're in Georgia or Yemen. And surely, you know that we can afford to go after them. We -- the United States ran huge deficits during World War II to finance that war. But I'd like you to listen to what the president himself said yesterday in Charlotte, North Carolina.</s>GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Doesn't matter how long it takes, as far as I'm concerned. It doesn't matter if it's a month, a year. Al Qaeda, the people who killed thousands of United States citizens, the thugs who want to challenge freedom wherever it exists, those who use religion in the name of murder will be brought to justice.</s>NOVAK: Now Mr. Engel, I know in your district there's no chance a Republican can eveb run. I think they would put him in jail if he runs in that district of New York City, but tell me what you disagree with what president said?</s>ENGEL: I don't disagree with going after terrorists. And I don't disagree with the need for the United States to take the lead. But you know, even Senator Bunnig, who's a Republican, was questioning how Osama bin Laden got away and Sheik Omar got away. Members of Congress and the Senate have a right to question. There's no blank checks. There's no just following the leader. Yes, the president is our leader and we follow him in the war against terrorism, but we have a right to question the directions that that's going. That's not unpatriotic, particularly when we have the power of the purse. That's what the people elect us to do. We're not going to just write out blank checks. We want to know what it's going for, where is the next move, and what the administration wants us to do. So it's not being disloyal. It's simply of matter of saying we want to know and we have a right to question.</s>PRESS: Isn't that a point, Congressman Sununu, as Senator Bunning said, I mean, this thing started out, October 10 it was when we started bombing, we were going to get Osama bin Laden and the al Qaeda. And we were going to get Mullah Omar and the Taliban. And as Senator Bunning says, we're spending a billion dollars a day, right? I mean, that's what, $360 billion a year. Don't we have -- and we don't even know where these guys are. How can you call it -- the question is how can you call it a success?</s>SUNUNU: We're not spending a billion dollars a day. I'm not quite sure where you got that number.</s>PRESS: Said Senator Bunning.</s>SUNUNU: Well, Senator Bunning knows we're not spending...</s>PRESS: But my question, how can we say it's a success in Afghanistan if Osama bin Laden is still on the loose, doing evil somewhere and we have no idea where he is?</s>SUNUNU: Without killing Osama bin Laden, I think there won't be a capstone to this, a finality to this. And that's why the administration is committed to getting that job done.</s>NOVAK: I think we're all agreed we have to get Osama bin Laden. Thank you very much, Congressman John Sununu. Thank you, Congressman Eliot Engel. Coming up next on CROSSFIRE, the White House says no, but powerful senators want to make your SUV, would you believe it, fuel- efficient. Is nothing sacred?