Caitlyn Jenner to Join List of Arthur Ashe Award Winners.
CUOMO: Caitlyn Jenner will be awarded the Arthur Ashe Courage Award at the ESPYs on ESPN in July, but there are some critics who claim there are other athletes more deserving, including, for example, Iraq war veteran, Noah Galloway. You may know him from "Dancing with the Stars," he made the cover of "Men's Health" magazine. How about the basketball player Lauren Hill recently died of cancer? So is Jenner the right pick or did ESPY choose her for promotional purposes? Let's bring in some supple minds to discuss. CNN sports analyst Christine Brennan and Mike Pesca, an NPR contributor, host of the "Slate" daily podcast, 'The Gist." Good to have you both here.</s>MIKE PESCA, NPR CONTRIBUTOR: Thanks.</s>CHRISTINE BRENNAN, CNN SPORTS ANALYST: Good to be here.</s>CUOMO: Christine, let's start with why. Why is it the right choice?</s>BRENNAN: I thought it was the right choice when I first heard about it, partially because I don't spend a lot of time thinking about the ESPYs, I don't watch the ESPYs -</s>CUOMO: They're not the Oscars.</s>BRENNAN: Right. Well, it's a made for TV event, which was fine, and in fact, the Arthur Ashe Courage Award has become a very big deal in large part because of the wonderful people who have won it, including Billy Jean King, Nelson Mandela, all kinds of people and now, of course, Caitlyn Jenner. Now that the issue has been brought up on social media and you think about Lauren Hill, my goodness, what an amazing story. And I certainly hope there is a place for her in that broadcast.</s>CUOMO: So that takes us to the why not? Pesca?</s>PESCA: Well, OK, I could articulate the point --</s>CUOMO: Yes. I am not saying you own it.</s>PESCA: Oh, I definitely don't own it.</s>CUOMO: Just for the sake of argument.</s>PESCA: The biggest argument is this thing about, oh, it's for ratings, that's why the ESPYs exist, you know, this isn't a charity, this isn't funded by a foundation. That's fine, they want to put on an award show, that's fine. I think it's - And I'll say I think it's dumb to get upset about someone who didn't win the award, like it's dumb to get upset about someone who didn't win the Nobel Prize, as if they're less of a humanitarian. It's not a slight to the pope when someone else wins. But I guess the articulation is that in terms of sports relevance, Caitlyn Jenner isn't that relevant anymore and, you know, the sad - if you if you contrast it with Lauren Hill, she died, Caitlyn Jenner is alive. So by that metric, you can never give it to a living person or a person who is not currently dying.</s>CUOMO: Over someone who has died.</s>PESCA: Yeah. Once you die, you win, you know?</s>CUOMO: Do you think there is something else behind the criticism, that this is an excuse to criticize Caitlyn Jenner?</s>BRENNAN: Well, I'm sure there is among - in some camps, Chris. Certainly not with us. I think that -</s>CUOMO: I know. You guys are almost completely useless on the negative side of this story. I'm going to have to own it now and take all the heat.</s>BRENNAN: Right. Well, you know, I think that the fact that this was announced so quickly after Caitlyn Jenner's news broke is interesting. I had, as I said, both of us, we are not spending time dwelling on the ESPY Awards and who is winning them and who is not. But once you start to think about this and realize that Lauren Hill, why hadn't she been picked? She died in April. 19 years old, not even reaching her 20th birthday. She is at the intersection of sports and courage the way no one else has been this year, so I am kind of surprised she was not picked already for this. I don't know when ESPN makes those decisions, you know, I have nothing to do with that.</s>CUOMO: Although, if you're going to look more deeply, Mike, at why Arthur Ashe, why did they - why this became this eponymous award for him, what he was known for, it was social conscious related. He transcended sports in a way that went to the dialogue of what we were comfortable talking about and what we were not, significantly there with AIDS. Does Jenner fit that category better than maybe anybody else?</s>PESCA: Well, I don't know ever, but - And I do think it sort of dishonors the memory of Lauren Hill. I mean, she didn't ask for this and it's not a me or her type of situation. And we've got the remember that Bruce Jenner was the most famous athlete after Muhammad Ali the 1970s. I mean, the most famous football player of the '70s was O.J. Simpson and the most famous baseball player was Pete Rose. And Bruce Jenner, especially by 1976, AP Athlete of the Year, he was transcendent. Of all of the criticisms, how is this courage? How is this not courage? Of course, it's courage. So the ESPYs are taking a stand and making a statement, and when you take a stand to make a statement, you get some flack. I am not sure they're upset by that. When you take a stand, you are saying something, and what they are saying is this is courage and it deserves to be honored.</s>BRENNAN: You what's really good about this is that Lauren Hill, people who hadn't heard about her or had forgotten, are now looking her up again online. And hopefully there will be more donations to the cause for cancer research that are in her name. Caitlyn Jenner, this is a huge issue, and I think the bottom line is it's, you know, it's the ESPYs and no one is going to get too exercised about that. There are people who - and Noah Galloway as well - people who deserve attention, they are inspirational in our country, they bring us to a national conversation that is important to have. Here we are having it again and Caitlyn Jenner is certainly a deserving winner of this award.</s>CUOMO: I just don't remember the "rather than" argument coming up before about this award that, you know, why did Christine get it and not Pesca? Although that would be an easy one.</s>PESCA: You know, when Michael Sam was awarded, the questions there was what has he accomplished? What has he accomplished in the NFL?</s>CUOMO: He's not a good enough athlete.</s>PESCA: Yeah. And so Caitlyn Jenner takes away some of that. The playing days are over, the accomplishment you can't -</s>CUOMO: Can't mess with Bruce.</s>PESCA: The Decathlon, what a great decathlete. So once you take that off the stage, I think it's laudable. As far as the ESPYs, yes, they're there for ratings, but I think it's laudable that ESPN definitely wants to say that us and by extension, American sport, I mean, they are, to some extent, American sport, American sport supports the gay community, supports the trans community. It's a little bit risky. It's not the most risk-averse move they could have done.</s>CUOMO: There is a lot of animosity towards LGBT in a traditional sense, let alone to gender reassignment. It's just been quite because there's been so much momentum behind Bruce transitioning into Caitlyn, so it's been quiet. But you are going to start hearing it more and more. This is not something that people are just ready to throw their arms around. Fair point.</s>BRENNAN: Mike Huckabee made a joke about it. It's amazing to me that people have this much time to devote to things that they either care about or don't, but you know, to go on social media, this is our world so we might as well get used to it. This is only going to get worse, not better. But you're absolutely right, Chris, the notion that this is somehow a topic. Bruce Jenner, now Caitlyn Jenner, made this decision. I think part of it is because of the reality TV aspect of his/her life and the Kardashians. That's where people go with this. I've never watched the Kardashians, I don't know what channel it's on, so from --</s>CUOMO: Pesca can't say that.</s>PESCA: What do you watch? You don't watch the ESPYs, you don't watch the Kardashians -</s>BRENNAN: I'm watching Chris on</s>CNN. CUOMO: Oh! Christine Brennan, my favorite person. Mike Pesca, thank you.</s>BRENNAN: Thank you.</s>CUOMO: Christine Brennan, this is -- It's going to be interesting to see what happens next in terms of this dialogue now that she is out there. Alisyn?</s>CAMEROTA: OK, Chris. "The Good Stuff," that's next.