Benghazi Suspect Interrogated On Navy Ship
BALDWIN: Squeezing the suspected Benghazi raid mastermind for valuable information probably will not be easy. Right now, Ahmed Abu Katallah is on a slow boat to America. He is being questioned on this U.S. Navy ship after Special Forces set a trap and nabbed him in his villa Sunday in Libya. Taking him by sea, rather than air, allows FBI investigators maximum time to question him. So we bring in our interrogation expert, Bob McFadden, former NCIS special agent in charge. Bob, nice to have you on.</s>ROBERT MCFADDEN, FORMER SPECIAL AGENT IN CHARGE, NCIS: Thank you.</s>BALDWIN: I want to get into the nuance between law enforcement interrogation and battlefield interrogation. I think that's an important distinction. The first -- talking about the story. I heard some experts say that this ship may travel very slowly, as slow as it needs to, so this guy talks. What's the first thing as an interrogator you try to do?</s>MCFADDEN: Well, the first thing is establishing some kind of relationship or rapport in getting to what are his primary motivations? What's the subject's primary motivations? Now not just for a case like this individual, Khatallah, but when it comes to combating terrorism cases or in the criminal realm, something you touched upon from my experience going back to before 9/11. There is really but a fine line between so-called intelligence interview and criminal interrogation. I know for me and -- partners for the "USS Cole" investigation, 9/11 operations and investigations, it was about the actionable information that can be used by planners, to disrupt plots and come up with battle plans. Something that you mentioned, though, before, about a tactical battlefield interrogation, though. It is different by degree than interrogation in this type of setting.</s>BALDWIN: This type of setting, you know all along that this guy is going to trial. You need to build a case. Right?</s>MCFADDEN: That's right. Absolutely. But think in terms of the jointness here and -- this seems to be a really effective hybrid approach where you have special operation forces, FBI elements and U.S. intelligence community all combining for the snatch and grab to have the subject in custody. What happened in Benghazi, of course, critically, terrifically important. Both for intelligence purposes and then for the elements of the crime when it goes to court. But rest assured right now in the early phases, as long as he's talking, it is going to be about intelligence requirement.</s>BALDWIN: If you are sitting -- let's imagine you are on the ship and you are facing Khatallah, at what point as an interrogator do you know have you him? He is going to talk.</s>MCFADDEN: That is a good frame of reference. Even in the most productive cases, rarely is there ever a breakthrough where the subject says, OK, you have me. Whatever you -- want, get ready, it is usually more of an incremental approach based on how the rapport and relationships are going. Tapping into those things that most motivate the subject and using information that he's giving to determine whether it is truthful, validating and vetting, building trust and building confidence. And some of the best-laid plans experienced interrogators know they may have to change on a dime if the plan is not working. There may be even a situation, too, where -- you are -- you can be certain that some of the best interrogators in the business are there and that if it is just not clicking with the team, they may bring in others to have a more effective approach or different approach.</s>BALDWIN: What's the biggest mistake an interrogator can make?</s>MCFADDEN: Not coming up with the information.</s>BALDWIN: Not coming out with the information. Bob McFadden, thank you so much. As we learn more about the story, love to have you back to talk about that. Thank you. Coming up next, World Cup fever. A key American player will miss Sunday's crucial game against Portugal. But happening right now, the game between England and Uruguay. We have live fan reaction from where else, a pub, of course coming up.