Many Refuse To Be Evacuated
COOPER: Members of the New Orleans Police Department have been barricading themselves in their police stations every night. They live off canned food like this, bottled water, whatever they can find. They've even renamed their police station, because they say this is like the Wild West. They call it Fort Apache.</s>COOPER: Well, that's near the French Quarter. We are now in the Ninth Ward, which is virtually completely flooded. We were out there today in a shallow-bottomed boat. And what we saw was just -- I mean, it continues to just be horrific, bodies floating in the water, dogs drinking this water, dogs dead in the water, dogs starving to death. It is a terrible, terrible scene. We expect to see that for several more days. Tom Foreman wanted to take a look for us at what went wrong and what went right and who is in charge of this entire operation. Take a look.</s>TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Days before Katrina, FEMA said it knew what it was facing, and that it was ready.</s>MICHAEL BROWN, DIRECTOR, FEMA: The Hurricane Center at its 5:00 forecast says this could easily be a category 4 by the end of the weekend.</s>FOREMAN: Monday, the storm hits, and FEMA says it has built an arc of relief, teams with food, water, blankets, medicine, all around the strike zone. Rapid-needs assessment helicopters will take off on the heels of Katrina to direct resources to the right places.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And we need everyone to stay put. Help is on the road.</s>FOREMAN: Tuesday, 150 miles of coast are in ruins. New Orleans is being flooded. Tens of thousands are trapped in plain sight at the Superdome and the Convention Center. Thousands huddle on rooftops, amid looting and violence. Michael Brown says his arc of relief is facing impassable roads, poor communication.</s>BROWN: And so we're going to ask you, for the time being, to turn to the American Red Cross, the charities, Salvation Army, local churches, others who can provide for your immediate needs.</s>FOREMAN: Wednesday. In New Orleans, people are dying on</s>TV. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I need you to get him to the hospital. We have no other transportation.</s>FOREMAN: Even as the president flies overhead, critics along the coast say FEMA's relief is inadequate or missing. Homeland security chief Michael Chertoff, who oversees FEMA, says for the scope of the disaster, things are going well.</s>MICHAEL CHERTOFF, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: We will work tirelessly to ensure that state and local authorities benefit from the full mobilization of our capabilities.</s>FOREMAN: His own FEMA director, however, now says he was surprised by the storm's power, surprised people did not evacuate, surprised levees failed, even though that was all predicted by many experts for many years. As for FEMA's arc of relief, 48 hours after the storm...</s>BROWN: ... and we're going to have the caravans moving tonight, so tomorrow, you're going to see that relief.</s>FOREMAN: Thursday. Hour by hour, trapped people cry for help, and it does not come. Some buses, yes, but certainly not enough. FEMA says it's delivering enormous amounts of aid all over. Local leaders are also under heavy criticism. And by Friday, they explode.</s>MAYOR RAY NAGIN, NEW ORLEANS (on phone): It's too doggone late. Now, get off your asses and let's do something!</s>FOREMAN: Tens of thousands at the Convention Center have been in the news for three days. Help finally arrives, with an admission.</s>BROWN: I think it was yesterday morning when we first found out about it. We were just as surprised as everybody else.</s>FOREMAN: A week after Katrina, the situation is finally better. But there are still few details about where the government's arc of relief was during four terrible days when relief was terribly needed. Tom Foreman, CNN, Washington.</s>COOPER: Well, in 1995, FEMA did a study to see what would happen here in New Orleans if a category 4 or category 5 hurricane hit. So there was -- there were studies done. They had done a mock hurricane of this. So much of what we are seeing now was predicted back in 1995. Want to talk with the former mayor of New Orleans, Sidney Barthelemy. He is joining us tonight from Atlanta. Mayor, thank you very much for being with us.</s>SIDNEY BARTHELEMY, FORMER NEW ORLEANS MAYOR: You're welcome, Anderson.</s>COOPER: First of all, your mother-in-law is still missing. Is there any word on her at this point?</s>BARTHELEMY: No. We are looking everywhere. We have many, many people calling. We've called every agency. And I think that's a critical thing that needs to be addressed today, not just for my mother-in-law, but for many citizens and many evacuees who are all over the country, who are trying to find out where their children are, where their parents are, where the loved ones are. And the system we have in place is just not working again.</s>COOPER: But do you understand, at this point, why there -- why this communication is such a problem? I mean, I, I, I can, I've been saying this for days now. I do not understand why someone hasn't come in just with cell phones and satellite phones in these neighborhoods and let people call their loved ones. It seems like such a basic, obvious thing. Do you understand, why hasn't that happened?</s>BARTHELEMY: I'm a loss for words. I agree with you. I think with the technology we have, we could set up a communications system almost immediately. We do it when we go to war. I really don't understand why they can't set up such a system now, and why they can't find out who the people are that we are evacuating, we're sending to hospitals, nursing homes, and try and contact -- get them in contact with their families.</s>COOPER: Mayor, I just want to point out to our viewers, we have a flatwater boat, which we believe has just rescued some people in this area that we are in in the Ninth Ward. We're just showing that to our viewers. I'm not sure, Mr. Mayor, if you could see this on camera. There is a body very close to where we are standing. And as you know, there, all day long, people have been plucked out. So we're witnessing right now, there are actually two boats, one on the right-hand side. Chris, I don't know if you can see that. There's people inside it who we believe have been rescued. And there's another boat coming in. Mr. Mayor, what is -- who is to blame? I mean, if someone is to blame, if mistakes have been made, who do you believe made those mistakes?</s>BARTHELEMY: I think the blame has got to be shared all the way around, Anderson. But the biggest, biggest burden, and the biggest blame, should be on the federal government. I don't understand how they could not see what was happening, happening, and why it took them so long to get in. It's baffling to me.</s>COOPER: Mr. Mayor, I'm joined also now on the phone by former FEMA director, James Lee Witt. Director, we spoke last night. Thank you very much for being with us. You said to me last night, and I just want to hear your thoughts on it today, what we are seeing now is a result, you believe, of FEMA's budget being basically eviscerated? Is that a fair statement what</s>JAMES LEE WITT, FORMER FEMA DIRECTOR (on phone): Well, Anderson, what I testified to Congress, and what I've said consistently, is that we need to put FEMA back as an independent agency, give them the programs and the money and the resources to do what they have done for years so well. And when they created the Department of Homeland Security, they put big parts of FEMA in the Homeland Security, left FEMA with just response, recovery, and the flood insurance program. And you cannot plan, train, and exercise, and be able -- if you don't plan, train, and exercise, you can't do a response together from state and local government and national government. And that's really important. And my hope is that they'll put it back to an independent agency with a director with a cabinet-level status, because it will make a difference for America, and it'll make a difference in this type of catastrophic event.</s>COOPER: What would FEMA be able to do that they are not currently able to do? I mean, we're seeing behind us a search operation going on right now. Those guys have been brought in by FEMA, as many urban search and rescue teams have. But what more could FEMA have done?</s>WITT: Well, it's important, Anderson, that it's a close-knit partnership from the -- from FEMA at the national level, to every single state and local community, with the emergency support functions of each plan of every local government and the state and the national government that there -- when something like this happens, that there's a seamless operation that takes place. Give you an example. You cannot do a task order for a thousand firefighters and have them staged, and not do a task order for airplanes to transport them.</s>COOPER: Well, I can tell you, I mean, I've talked to so many local firefighters who have been sitting around waiting for a mission, waiting for something to do here, and they are frustrated. And they feel it's a lack of coordination, that no one kind of knows -- the right arm doesn't know -- or the left hand doesn't know what the right hand's doing.</s>WITT: And, you know, they're right. And let me tell you what we're doing. We've got a meeting tonight at 6:00. I met with Mike Brown and the FEMA staff, and by the end of the day tomorrow, there's going to be a joint operations center that's going to be seamless. There's going to be incident commanders in place to making sure that tasks are done, tasks are carried out, and that this thing is seamless, and that this kind of stuff is not going to happen.</s>COOPER: Because I, I mean, I talked to a crew from Destin, who are desperate. They had boats ready to go in the water, and then they had people from Fish and Wildlife telling them, No, don't put the boats in here, this is our territory. I mean, is there a fight over turf going on here?</s>WITT: No, it's just a miscommunication. And the organization needs to set up to take care of these problems. And that's what we're doing. And Mike Brown and I are in sync on it, and FEMA's in sync on it, the</s>COOPER: But is that going to be up and running tomorrow?</s>WITT: It's going to be up and running by the end of tomorrow.</s>BARTHELEMY: But, Anderson, I think that's the whole point. You know, there is a fight for turf, it seems, there is a lack of coordination. Here we are, a week since the hurricane hit, and they're still talking about trying to set up a plan.</s>WITT: No, it's not a plan.</s>BARTHELEMY: I mean...</s>WITT: It's not a plan, it's an organization. And I -- you know,</s>BARTHELEMY: Well, I mean, well, whatever you call it, it is a week after the hurricane, and you're just setting an organization up?</s>WITT: Sir, let me just tell you. I wasn't here until Friday, and I have been working night and day without sleep to get this operation moving seamlessly. And I can promise you, I am going to do that.</s>COOPER: We're going to, we're going to, we'd love to check in with you again tomorrow night. We always like talking to you, former FEMA director, James Witt. Thank you very much. And former mayor Barthelemy, good luck to you in this personal quest to find your mother-in-law. We wish you the best and hope she is safe, and are, all the members of your family are. A lot more ahead. We'll be right back.