Interview With Acting New Orleans Police Superintendent Warren Riley
ZAHN: I don't think any of us will ever forget the frightening scenes of lawlessness in New Orleans right after Hurricane Katrina struck and the stories about hundreds of cops going AWOL. Well, tonight, we have got an update on that story for you. Forty-five police officers who failed to return to their jobs have been fired, along with six civilian police employees. Still up in the air is the fate of officers who did go back to work and are fighting charges of desertion, officers like our one Jason Carroll met during some of the roughest times New Orleans has ever seen.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What are you doing, man? Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! Whoa!</s>JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In the days of lawlessness, looting and flooding, something happened few people in New Orleans imagines was possible. Hundreds of police officers, like Lieutenant Henry Waller, abandoned their fellow officers and thousands of evacuees when they were needed most.</s>LIEUTENANT HENRY WALLER, NEW ORLEANS POLICE DEPARTMENT: I defend it by saying that I left them in a bad situation, but I have would have been leaving my wife in a worse situation.</s>CARROLL: Waller has been a New Orleans cop for eight-and-a-half years. He's stationed at the First District downtown. And he's one of only a few high-ranking officers, the department says, who went AWOL, absent without leave.</s>H. WALLER: The one time that I know that I did the right thing and made the right decision, it's going to vilify me, that's difficult to deal with.</s>CARROLL: Waller explained how it happened, saying, Tuesday, August 30, the day after Katrina hit New Orleans, the situation was grave.</s>H. WALLER: We listened to the radio. And we're hearing the things, the water is still rising. The water is still rising. The water is still rising. The looting is this. The looting is that.</s>CARROLL: Waller says police superiors had no plan of action, and he was reprimanded for saying that to his unit.</s>H. WALLER: I got with another lieutenant in the First District, who essentially told me, look, you're a supervisor. You can't scare these guys. If they know you're scared, they're going to be scared. And I said, flat out, I said, you know what? I am scared. Everybody here is scared. And the bottom line is, I'm not going to tell these guys everything is going to be OK when it's not going to be OK.</s>CARROLL: That Tuesday, as 80 percent of New Orleans lay under water, Waller says he told another officer he would get supplies. Waller drove an hour away to Baton Rouge, where stores were open. It was also where his wife was staying with his family. She was upset, fearing something had happened to her father in hurricane-damaged Mississippi. Still, after getting the supplies, Waller says he went back to New Orleans, where he heeded a state trooper's warning at the city's checkpoint.</s>H. WALLER: And I started thinking. I said, well, you know, we have been hearing this story about the levees breaching all day. What if they're right and I get stuck in this car? I'm no good dead. And so, we will go back tonight. You know, and I will head back in the morning, once we have a better grasp of what is going on.</s>CARROLL: But Waller did not go back Wednesday morning. He stayed with his family and canceled plans to return to New Orleans Thursday, when his wife got news her father may have drowned. He's listed as missing.</s>CYNTHEIA WALLER, WIFE OF NEW ORLEANS POLICE OFFICER: I need my husband. And if they want to blame somebody for him leaving, tell them to blame me, because it was me who was literally begging him to stay. Call me a coward. Call me selfish.</s>H. WALLER: In a time of ultimate crisis, who needs me more, the police department or my wife? And it was a no-brainer for me.</s>CARROLL (on camera): What if all of the officers did something like that? Once you've taken an oath of protection, who is there to protect the people?</s>H. WALLER: That's a tough question to answer, only because I know that not all the officers are going to do that.</s>CARROLL (voice-over): But enough did. Nearly a quarter of the entire force went AWOL. Lieutenant Troy Savage says officers like him, who stayed, resent fellow cops like Waller, who didn't.</s>LIEUTENANT TROY SAVAGE, NEW ORLEANS POLICE DEPARTMENT: Everybody had a wife. Everybody has got families. Everybody needed to see them. But we didn't. We all didn't flee. We all didn't run in a time of crisis. And he did that.</s>CARROLL: Waller stands by his decision, but says it costs him sleep.</s>H. WALLER: The nightmares were horrible. Every time I fell asleep for a couple of minutes, I was having a recurring nightmare that one of my guys was -- needed help somewhere, was drowning or being beaten up.</s>CARROLL: Finally, nearly a week after being AWOL, Waller radioed the First District, saying he wanted to come back and was told, don't bother.</s>H. WALLER: People are going to have their opinions. I can only hope that, over time, you know, people will understand.</s>CARROLL: Maybe, over time, some people will find understanding. But forgiveness might be more difficult.</s>ZAHN: Jason Carroll reporting for us from New Orleans. The acting superintendent of New Orleans Police is Warren Riley. And he joins us now to update us on this breaking news tonight. Thank you, Chief, for being with us. So, you fired some 45 police officers, as well as six civilian police officers. Why?</s>WARREN RILEY, ACTING NEW ORLEANS POLICE SUPERINTENDENT: Well, it was obvious that during the crisis, during the time when we needed police officers the most, when our citizens counted on us and when we counted on our fellow officers to be there during the most challenging time in the history of New Orleans, in modern time, anyway, those officers were not there. And not only were they not there; they have not returned since that time. So, it would be very difficult for them to function in our current operation. We need to be able to count on them, and they weren't there. So, they were terminated.</s>ZAHN: I know that Lieutenant Henry Waller, who we just heard from, his -- his case is under review. But is there any defense of that, when a man says to you, who needs me more -- quote -- "the police department or my wife?" And I chose my wife.</s>RILEY: Well, in our situation, we had a staff meeting, and all of our commanders knew that they had two to three days to take care of their families and to be here when Katrina hit and to be here for the aftermath. So, I understand the decision that he had to make. But he also took an oath for the police department and for our citizens. And he did not uphold that oath. So, he made a decision, and now he has to live with it.</s>ZAHN: Chief, can you help me with some math tonight? I'm looking at some numbers here, because we were originally told by the New Orleans Police Department that 249 officers left their posts without permission during Hurricane Katrina. Now we're talking about some 51 or -- let's say, use the 45 who -- who weren't civilians now have been fired. So, what does that mean for the roughly 200 other officers that -- that you all isolated weeks ago?</s>RILEY: Well, right now we still have 1448, 1450 police officers, right around there. Our department, we're staffed sufficiently right now primarily because the majority of citizens are not here. The list of 249, that original list, has been dwindled down to 228. Those 228, the remaining 228, are still under investigation. You must understand that everybody on that list was not considered AWOL, but everyone who is on that list was not here at some point from the day that Katrina hit to somewhere maybe eight, ten or 12 days later. Some of those officers were here for the first five or six days. Then they left to go check on their families. But, they did not get permission from their supervisors. So, we put everyone on the list. Everyone, even those who were here during Katrina, if they left without permission. Now, some of those aren't so serious.</s>ZAHN: So, chief, finally, I just need a really brief answer to this, even a yes or no will do. Do you expect then more officers to be fired once these investigations are over?</s>RILEY: I really don't know. I would anticipate a few, at least.</s>ZAHN: Chief Riley, thanks for your candor tonight. We appreciate it.</s>ZAHN: When we come back, we going to turn our attention to Florida, a different hurricane, this one named Wilma. And look at the recovery going on down there. Millions of people are winding up a week without electricity. And a little bit later on, this one is a scary one. What if you woke up during surgery and felt the pain, but couldn't say stop, couldn't even scream? It happens to thousands of people every year. We'll hear from a patient herself, who will describe what happened to her when she woke up during surgery.