The National Review Versus Donald Trump; Donald Trump Versus Megyn Kelly: Round Two
STELTER: The big winter storm is almost over but a new one is brewing. It's between the Republican Party establishment and Donald Trump. You see the cover of "The National Review" has been making headlines for days "Against Trump" it says. The magazine, of course, founded by conservative icon William F. Buckley reads in big bold gold letters, there are names of 22 editors, a who's who of conservative media makers all weighing in on this issue of the magazine. The editorial states the following, "Donald Trump is a menace to more than conservativism, who would take the work of generations and trample it underfoot in behalf of the population as heedless and crude as The Donald himself." All you can see his response on screen, calling "The National Review" a failing publication that lost its way. He calls it sad with an exclamation point. Now, while Trump is battling "The National Review", battling these conservative media elites, it looks like he's warming up to FOX News CEO Roger Ailes once again, calling him the greatest man in the history of television. That was at rally the other day. Of course, it comes before the next GOP debate. Now, what network is broadcasting that debate? FOX News. It's on Thursday. And Megyn Kelly is a moderator. But Trump is taking issue with that. Now, joining me to discuss all of this is Katrina Pierson, the national spokesperson for the Trump campaign. Good morning. Good to see you.</s>KATRINA PIERSON, NATIONAL SPOKESPERSON FOR THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN: Good morning, Brian. Great to be here.</s>STELTER: I want to start with some news that broke in "Politico" playbook an hour ago. And I just spoke to David Brock about it. He's a Hillary Clinton ally, the founder of super PAC that supports Clinton and, of course, targets her opponents. He's telling me that, actually, Donald Trump is his new target. Let me put on screen what he's saying. He says, "I may have spoken too soon when I predicting in December that the Democrats would face Cruz in November. I believe the GOP nominee is likely to be Donald Trump. My super PAC is adjusting accordingly," that means he's going to attack you. "I don't agree with some Democrat thinking that Trump would be easy to beat. He's rewritten all the rules and I would expect a tough race with Hillary." Now, this is obviously big news because this is a very well-funded super PAC that's now taking aim at you and your candidate. Do you have any reaction to that? Are you surprised to hear that Hillary Clinton's allies are now preparing for a battle with your election in the general election?</s>PIERSON: Well, no, Brian. We're not surprised at all. I mean, as we have seen across this country, there's more and more support for Donald Trump and his candidacy. A lot of people believe in his vision and what he proposes to make America great again. When you look at his broad base of support, it is eating at the Democrat support out there. We're looking at even minorities and women that have supported Donald Trump's campaign and so, they should be very nervous. And that's why so many Republicans are coming to Donald Trump's aid because they know he's our best chance at winning in the general election.</s>STELTER: You see Republicans coming to his aid, but obviously, that "National Review" cover must have been somewhat sad for you all to see such loud, vociferous opposition, right?</s>PIERSON: Well, no. Look, we've been dealing with oppositions since the beginning and you know that. Since Mr. Trump entered the race in June, there had been a lot of elite Republicans who claim to want to tell everything else what to think about Mr. Trump. But what they failed to realize is that the Republican Party primary voters have been watching the same people endorse in candidates in 2008 and 2012 that have lost the general election. Nobody wants anymore talking points from think tanks. They want action. They want someone that can get out there and get things done. And when Donald Trump says he wants to make deals, he means actually getting things one. Whereas, what we've witnessed in the past with some of these elite endorsed candidates is they just capitulate. They don't do deals at all. They'd just give in on everything and they fight for nothing. And that's different when it comes to Donald Trump.</s>STELTER: Can you tell me whether he lobbied "The National Review" at all in the past few months? They've been critical to him all along. I wonder if he's ever reached out, maybe tried to woo them at all.</s>PIERSON: Mr. Trump really doesn't try to woo anyone. He's not that much of a panderer as many have noticed. But, you know, he has spoken highly of people until they come against him.</s>STELTER: I don't know about --</s>PIERSON: A lot of these people came to him asking for money. A lot of people have sent in their resumes even before. And Donald Trump really doesn't go out of his way to say bad things about people.</s>STELTER: I don't know about the not wooing.</s>PIERSON: He tweeted in the past to help these publications.</s>STELTER: You know, I remember when I was at "The New York Times", I write about "The Apprentice" ratings. He would send me article. He circled something he didn't like. He'd write a note to me. A lot of reporters have gotten those kind of notes from the Donald Trump in the past. Isn't that a form of wooing? You know, Megyn Kelly says that he used to do similar things with her.</s>PIERSON: I don't think that's wooing. I think he's just telling you what he thinks and feels, and what he thinks is fair or not fair. But he does that publicly as well.</s>STELTER: Let me ask you about endorsements, because you mentioned the irrelevance you say of endorsement. "The Des Moines Register", of course, endorsed Marco Rubio last night. Do you have a view that endorsements, that newspaper endorsements simply do not matter anymore? Is he not trying to win over endorsements in key states like Iowa and New Hampshire?</s>PIERSON: I think if you look at the current political paradigm, the establishment endorsements don't matter. Whether it's a news outlet, a publication, or even a professional politician. Voters have been duped for so long in this country. They want to think for themselves. They want to get out there and meet the candidates and make up their own minds.</s>STELTER: Well, what about your own endorsements?</s>PIERSON: Particularly when you endorse Hillary Clinton in the same way.</s>STELTER: Sure.</s>PIERSON: When you have Hillary Clinton and Marco Rubio, that lets voters know a lot.</s>STELTER: What about your own endorsements, because over the weekend, there's been a lot of attention about your past with Cruz. We can put on the screen, the Mediaite headline, one of your past comments about Ted Cruz. You used to work for him and then you switched sides. And a lot of people take exception to that. What do you say to them?</s>PIERSON: Well, first, I've never worked for Senator Ted Cruz. I did volunteer. I'm here in Texas. I'm happy to have him as my senator. But, again, this is a presidential race. And here in Texas, if you look at my seven years of history of grassroots work, immigration is my number one priority. And it has been very clear that Donald Trump's immigration policy is the best and also the best for Texas.</s>STELTER: I understand you pivot from Cruz to Trump. When you said Cruz can be the next president, isn't that an example of the kind of, you know, commentary in the media and social media that people just don't trust anymore?</s>PIERSON: Well, not necessarily, because this was long before Donald Trump entered the race. Senator Cruz was the first one out, so I was definitely supporting my senator. But once Donald Trump entered in June and put out his immigration policy, you saw a lot of conservatives come out and support Donald Trump. We've seen Sarah Palin and people like Amy Cramer (ph), all who supported Senator Cruz in his Senate run but are now supporting Donald Trump for president.</s>STELTER: And your comment from 2012 has gotten a lot of attention this weekend. You tweeted about Barack Obama and Mitt Romney. You tweeted about how Obama's father was Africa. You said, are there any pure breeds left? Do you regret that? Would you like to retract that?</s>PIERSON: No, not at all. Look, these tweets, I'm an activist. And I am a half breed. I'm always getting a half breed. And on Twitter, when you're fighting with liberals and even establishment, you go back at the same silliness they're giving you. So, I myself am a half breed.</s>STELTER: You're telling me that was just silliness?</s>PIERSON: Absolutely.</s>STELTER: I'll take your word about that.</s>PIERSON: This is the thing, Brian, this is the thing. We have entered silly season. Donald Trump is up in the polls again. There's desperate campaigns out there. They can't take him down so they try to take down the people that are around him. And we're just not going to get distracted by all that nonsense.</s>STELTER: I don't know about entered. I think we've been in silly season for a while. But let me turn to the next debate because I'm very interested on your take on this. Next Thursday, of course, FOX News, the final debate before the Iowa caucus. It's setting up as a rematch between Donald Trump and Megyn Kelly, since their first encounter from last summer. And you saw what Trump yesterday. Here's what -- let me put on screen. He wrote, "Based on Megyn Kelly's, quote, 'conflict of interest and bias', she should not be allowed to moderate the next debate." Now, FOX is firing back, telling me last night that Megyn Kelly has no conflict of interest. Donald Trump is trying to build up the audience for Thursday's debate for which we thank him. Is there any possibility, Katrina, that Trump will boycott this debate on Thursday because of Megyn Kelly's role?</s>PIERSON: Well, he has not mentioned that at this point, Brian, but if he decides to that, he'll be the first one to announce it. There's no love lost between Megyn Kelly and Donald Trump after that first debate. That's been a very publicized disagreement. But I think it's going to be fine. Mr. Trump is set to win Iowa, win New Hampshire, win South Carolina and win the GOP nomination and we're going to focus on winning.</s>STELTER: Is it do you think a disadvantage for Donald Trump to be on stage with Megyn Kelly just a few days before the key Iowa caucus?</s>PIERSON: No, not at all. I think we're at a point where you either like Trump or you don't like Trump. I don't think any minds are going to be changed. The people who are in the middle that are trying to decide which direction am I going to go, I don't think this debate is going to make that determination just because Megyn Kelly's on the panel.</s>STELTER: Katrina, great to see you. Thank you for being here this morning.</s>PIERSON: Thanks, Brian. Great to see you.</s>STELTER: Let's talk a bit more about this so-called rematch. Let me bring in Jim Rutenberg, the newly named media columnist for "The New York Times". Jim, good to see you. Congratulations on your new role.</s>JIM RUTENBERG, MEDIA COLUMNIST, THE NEW YORK TIMES: Thank so much.</s>STELTER: You wrote a big story in "The New York Times" about Megyn Kelly, a profile of her. So, I wanted to hear your perspective on this. I think from FOX's perspective, this is all just bluster from Donald Trump. He's preparing -- you know, laying the ground work for Thursday night. Do you think this is a difficult situation for Megyn Kelly to be in, this so called rematch?</s>RUTENBERG: I mean, for any journalist, it's a really hard situation because you have the front-runner for the Republican nominee coming after you. This is not a two-sided fight. Trump is the one instigating this. Megyn Kelly is not engaging.</s>STELTER: Yes, you're saying it's not exactly a feud, because a feud requires both sides to be fighting.</s>RUTENBERG: Yes, she's doing journalism. From the beginning in that debate, she was doing journalism. Trump is maybe this is a "working the ref" thing. I'm trying to figure that out as I speak.</s>STELTER: Do you think that Kelly's brand has benefitted from this? You know, in your profile, it's clear that she's thought about her image. She sought to be more of a newswoman than a commentary person -- the way maybe Sean Hannity is who follows her on FOX. Has this debate drama over the past few months played into that image as a newswoman?</s>RUTENBERG: I think it has. I'm sure she would rather not be quite playing out this way because it's so reality TV. But at the same time, it is -- you know, she showed that she was going to ask really tough questions. She angered a major candidate. And he -- in way, he's acting as if he's afraid of facing her on Thursday night, right? This is a way of, like, is he working the ref?</s>STELTER: You think he's a little nervous about it?</s>RUTENBERG: Well, that's one possible motive because we haven't seen a front runner go after a moderator in this sustained of a way for this long.</s>STELTER: There's so much curiosity about Megyn Kelly. Her star has been rising and rising and rising. I would argue she's now the biggest star of FOX News. Bill O'Reilly might disagree with me. What do you think has been the secret to her success?</s>RUTENBERG: I actually think that she has an amazing television talent. I think it's preparation. I think listening during interviews and I think it's being -- kind of doing the unexpected. Not playing to type.</s>STELTER: Let me ask you, before we have to go to break here. You're replacing David Carr, our former friend, our late friend who passed away last February, as "The New York Times" media columnist. A lot of curiosity about when you'll be starting and how you'll be approaching the role?</s>RUTENBERG: At this point, I'm going to -- I'm planning to start in mid-March so I can do a lot of studying and preparation. I've been away from the media beat for, you know, more than a decade. But I follow it because as a political reporter, to me, the media is so central. So, you know, I haven't been absent, but I'm going to take some time to get up to speed, and, you know, following that act is a really hard thing to do.</s>STELTER: What's the big story you think you'd like to tell with this prized media column at "The Times"?</s>RUTENBERG: There are 15,000. So, what I have to do is prioritize. I mean, to me, the change that we're experiencing is amazing. The media environment around Donald Trump is amazing. Our politics, media, tech, it's just a ton.</s>STELTER: Jim, great to see you. Thanks for being here.</s>RUTENBERG: Thanks so much. Appreciate it.</s>STELTER: Coming up on</s>RELIABLE SOURCES: What's the one thing Trump and Bernie Sanders has figured out that this election cycle maybe the media has not. When we come back, we'll get into that, and the answer might surprise you.