Interview With Arizona Senator Jeff Flake
TAPPER: Welcome back. In a remarkable peek behind the curtain into Washington deal-making, we all just watched President Trump and congressional leaders, Democrats and Republicans, meet to try to hammer out a deal on immigration. Senator Jeff Flake of Arizona was at the table for that meeting. He joins me now. Senator, as always, thanks so much for joining us.</s>SEN. JEFF FLAKE (R), ARIZONA: Hey, thanks for having me.</s>TAPPER: Was having that meeting with cameras rolling, what were you expecting?</s>FLAKE: I didn't expect the cameras to stay that long. Obviously, the more productive part of the meeting was after the cameras left. But, frankly, I went in with pretty low expectations. You don't put 22 people around the table and expect to really negotiate. We're at a point now where we really need to negotiate and where at a point now where we really need to negotiate. But I was surprised that, you know, when the cameras left at the president's flexibility on the matter. And that he actually went in and explained what he meant by a wall and border security, and that's helpful. It really is.</s>TAPPER: So, he was actually even more flexible on the issue of what needed to be attached to the DREAMers' bill once the cameras left the room?</s>FLAKE: Yes, and I don't know if I can define one rather than the other. I can't remember what was what, but certainly after the cameras left Kevin McCarthy and a few others said, all right, let's really set these parameters. What are the four items that need to be there? And we really narrowed it down to that. Now some of these -- some of the four items could be expanded certainly within them, but just setting those parameters helps a great deal.</s>TAPPER: I want to get to the substance of the bill in a second, but --</s>FLAKE: Right.</s>TAPPER: But our White House correspondent Jeff Zeleny is reporting that one of the reasons that the White House invited the cameras into the room and let it roll -- let them roll for so long was to beat back against the narrative in the new book "Fire and Fury" and this idea that the president's mental fitness is deteriorating, he's not up to the job. He did seem rather reasonable and in command in the meeting. I'm just wondering, separate and distinct from the -- from the negotiations you just attended, have you ever had concerns or heard anyone around the president having concerns about his fitness?</s>FLAKE: No, no, I'm not going there. I've dealt with him on some issues. I disagree with him certainly on some issues and agree with him on others, but I've not experienced that.</s>TAPPER: OK. You say both Republicans and Democrats need to give on something in order to reach a deal on immigration to help the DREAMers. Where do you think President Trump is willing to give?</s>FLAKE: Well, we got a list, the so-called punch list that I had asked for back with a meeting in early December with General Kelly. We had a series of two meetings with General Kelly and some of us on Capitol Hill. And at that point, we were asking, you know, what constitutes border security and can you give us a list? And we waited and waited and waited. Finally, a few days ago that list came. It was later than we wanted it, but it came, the problem is it was pretty expansive. It was just throwing basically everything in. And the value of the meeting today was shelving some of that or saying, yes, this is important, but it's important as part of comprehensive reform, which we can do in phase two. But right now, we need to protect these DACA kids.</s>TAPPER: The president said he wanted comprehensive immigration reform, as you note. That's phase two, this deal with the DREAMers and border security would be phase one. A bigger bill for phase two. Comprehensive immigration reform, as you know perhaps better than most, has become the third rail for many in the Republican Party. Take a listen to the president.</s>DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You want to know the truth, Dick, if we do this properly, DACA, you're not so far away from comprehensive immigration reform. If you want to take it that further step, I'll take the heat. I don't care. I don't care. I'll take all the heat you want to give me. I'll take the heat off both the Democrats and the Republicans. My whole life has been heat.</s>TAPPER: Here is how conservative Ann Coulter immediately responded. Nothing Michael Wolff, the author of "Fire and Fury", could say about @RealDonaldTrump has hurt him as much as the DACA love fest right now. I guess my question is, are you worried that once the president actually feels the heat from his base, he might change his mind?</s>FLAKE: I hope not. And, you know, he is -- there was a famous meeting with Chuck and Nancy where he expressed a lot of flexibility there and then was pulled back immediately. So, there is that concern. But we're closer to the deadline now. We don't have any time to spare. So, I frankly was pleased to hear what the president said. I would disagree with him a bit in terms of how he said, you know, once we get the DACA piece done, that we're a long ways into comprehensive. Not really. I dealt with comprehensive. We negotiated that over seven months, virtually every night that we were here in D.C., and over the weekends a lot. It was -- that was tough to negotiate. We're not going to be very far down the comprehensive road when we finish DACA, but it will be a start. And that's a good thing.</s>TAPPER: The president also floated the idea of bringing back earmarks, pork barrel projects to help control members of Congress, help cajole them and get them on board. The conservative group Club for Growth said about that idea, quote, bringing back the earmarks is the antithesis of draining the swamp. Earmarks will only benefit the special interest that grow government at the expense of working men and women. What's your take?</s>FLAKE: I share that view as one who played a bit of a role over the past several years and finally ending the scourge of earmarks. We don't want to bring them back. That is not the price we want to pay for getting a few members to talk to each other. That just -- that was so corrupting and so awful. We don't want a return to the earmark era. And if anybody needs a reminder of what that was like and what that did to the Republican Party, it chased us out of office in 2006. It chased us out of the majority. We don't need to go there again. We really don't.</s>TAPPER: Senator Flake, stay right there. I'm going to ask you after the break, why this recent turn of tide, Republicans who have had strong criticism of the president in the past, such as Corker and Lindsey Graham, now openly phrasing him. Stay with me. I'm going to ask you about that next.</s>FLAKE: OK.