Interview With Jose Antonio Vargas
HOWARD KURTZ, HOST: We begin this morning with a journalist I know but, as it turns out, didn't really know. Jose Antonio Vargas had a secret, one that his former paper, "The Washington Post," just refused to publish. Vargas is an illegal immigrant. And in his first television interview since breaking that news with ABC, he'll address his history of deception and why he's taking the risk of coming forward now. This one really struck me, President Obama announcing his decision to withdraw 30,000 troops from Afghanistan. That drew only brief media coverage. Are journalists capable of a sustained look at America's role in the war that would match the intensity of, say, the Anthony Weiner story? Plus, Jon Stewart back in the Fox's den. Did he successfully skewer the network in his appearance with Chris Wallace, or just indulge in his typical schtick? And Keith Olbermann back in action on Al Gore's low profile network. Can the liberal crusader regain his clout and stick it to MSNBC? I'm Howard Kurtz, and this is RELIABLE SOURCES. He came here illegally as a teenager from the Philippines, later obtained a driver's license improperly, and used that to become a journalist. Jose Antonio Vargas became a "Washington Post" reporter, part of a Pulitzer Prize-winning team that covered the Virginia Tech shootings. He later moved on to "The Huffington Post" and interviewed Facebook founder Mark Zuckerberg for "The New Yorker." All that time he kept his dark secret unit this week, when he wrote about the experience for today's "New York Times" magazine. I'll hold it up here. The headline is "Outlaw." And joining me now from New York for his first cable news interview is Jose Antonio Vargas. Welcome.</s>JOSE ANTONIO VARGAS, "THE HUFFINGTON POST": Hi, Howie. Thanks for having me.</s>KURTZ: You knew that you'd be criticized, that you'd be slammed, that you were admitting to having been a liar, and that you could be deported tomorrow. Why did you decide to come forward with this information?</s>VARGAS: Because I'm not the only one. You know, I'm one of millions of undocumented people in this country who are living kind of under the shadows. And in many ways, coming out, it was my way of -- at the end of the day, I think we have to tell the truth about this immigration system. And because of that, I had to tell the truth about myself.</s>KURTZ: I will come back to that, but I do need to ask you -- I mean, as you acknowledge, you deceived your editors. For instance, Phil Bronstein was editor of the "San Francisco Chronicle" when you were there. He write that he feels duped and that he was particularly uncomfortable that you wrote for The Chronicle about illegal immigrants getting fake drivers' licenses at a time when you had done the same thing.</s>VARGAS: I mean, what's interesting here is there were just some times when I couldn't avoid writing about immigration. I worked for The Chronicle in San Francisco, and immigration is a big issue in that region. But all along the way, I think -- at the end of the day, I think the work speaks for itself, and it was fair and accurate and insightful. And really, at the end of the day, my work -- I had to do what I had to do to work. And in terms of my own immigration status, which I could never talk about, because whenever I did talk about it, people told me that I shouldn't be revealing it because then I couldn't work. This is why it's been really important for me. You know, I've been referring to it as part of my own personal underground railroad of the 21st century, people in my life who have been taking risks to help me all through these years.</s>KURTZ: And of course sometimes you had to lie to your friends or not tell the whole truth. But as you enjoyed more professional success, you went to work for these prestigious publications, you were hanging out with Mark Zuckerberg, how worried were you that it could all fall apart at any moment?</s>VARGAS: The whole time. I mean, this is why it's important I think to remember. I came forward with this story. It's not as if someone was threatening to out me or someone was threatening to do anything. I just got to a point where last year, I was sitting at home here in Manhattan, I was sitting in my apartment, and I'm watching and reading the stories of these four students from Miami who took, like, a 1,500 mile walk to Washington, D.C., to lobby for immigration reform for a thing called the DREAM Act. And I was sitting this in my apartment feeling like I was in their shoes just seven years ago. I had to say something. I had to say something. And this is my way, as I said, of kind of coming forward. The best way to solve is problem is to tell the truth about it, and that's what aim doing.</s>KURTZ: Let's come back to how you decided to go public. You called Katharine Weymouth, the publisher of "The Washington Post," where you had worked for, what, seven years?</s>VARGAS: Five years.</s>KURTZ: Five years.</s>VARGAS: I was there for five years, yes.</s>KURTZ: And we knew each other a little bit then. And you told her that you wanted to disclose this and you wanted to do it in the pages of "The Washington Post." Why?</s>VARGAS: Well, actually, the first thing that I told her is that I'm sorry. The first thing I said to her on the phone, "I'm really, really sorry about this." And the second thing is I said, "I'm going to come forward with my story, and I want to do it for The Post," because I thought that was the right thing to do. I owe a lot of my professional identity to that paper. That paper has been very and was very good to me. So I thought it was the best place to tell the story.</s>KURTZ: And then you did write the article, and this was extensively edited and extensively fact-checked, understandably, given the history there.</s>VARGAS: Oh, yes. Exactly, yes.</s>KURTZ: And days before a decision would have been made to run this, the executive editor of The Post, my former newspaper, Marcus Brauchli, killed it. Were you surprised at that decision?</s>VARGAS: Yes, I was surprised. But at the end of the day, everything, thankfully, worked out for the best. I ended up just reaching out to Peter Baker at "The New York Times," and he contacted his editor. And I spoke to The Times the next day. And thankfully, they ended up running the piece.</s>KURTZ: But do you feel like The Post was almost in a position of wanting to cover this up? I mean, this was something that -- The Post had hired you not knowing that you were an illegal immigrant. You did tell one top editor, Peter Perl, who kept your secret. The paper has now criticized that. He said he thought he was doing the right thing. And then Brauchli is refusing to comment on the reasons, even to his own ombudsman. Why would The Post not take this opportunity to set the record straight?</s>VARGAS: I mean, you and I both worked there. I can't tell you what The Post thinks. I don't want to assume what The Post thinks. All I know is I'm really grateful that "The New York Times" -- you know, Hugo Lindgren, the editor at the magazine, and Chris Solentrof (ph), who edited it, ended up editing the piece when it got there, I'm just grateful that they were able to give me this platform. I mean, I've been getting all these tweets and Facebook, and people have been going on to DefineAmerican.com to kind of share their own stores and ask questions. And really, that's what I'm doing here. I mean, I decided to do this because what I do best is ask questions. And now I'm asking questions about, what would you have done if you were in my shoes? What would you have done if you were the teacher or the principal in high school who found out one of your students is undocumented?</s>KURTZ: Just before I leave the subject, The Post, belatedly, of course, covered the controversy and said that there was a red flag raised, because when you were developing this story for the paper, you failed to disclose that you had replaced your expired Oregon driver's license with one from Washington State. The driver's license was what enabled you to stay here and work. So why did you not come forward with that information?</s>VARGAS: No, everything -- I mean, again, we went through weeks of editing. And everything that they wanted in the story ended up being in the story. So I kind of -- I don't want to hatch on -- kind of hatch what happened there. At the end of the day, the story is the story. And again, this is just one story. I'm just one person. And thankfully, I was able to have this platform to tell my story.</s>KURTZ: Right. But you've made the point several times, Jose, that you could not have worked without the initial lie.</s>VARGAS: Exactly. I could not have worked without --</s>KURTZ: At the time, you have to acknowledge and you do acknowledge that you broke the law. But it seems like you're kind of letting yourself off the hook to some degree.</s>VARGAS: Oh, no. I mean, this is not about -- I'm sorry -- I'm sorry for breaking our county's laws. And I think what's -- I've owed my sanity kind of living with this to all the people in my life. Really, the principals and the pastors in this country who have helped people like me. In many ways they've stepped up where the government has failed. We have a broken immigration system. Everybody agrees on that. And people, everyday American citizens, have stepped up because the government has failed us. And this is really what this is about.</s>KURTZ: And we will talk more about that on the other side. I've got to get a break in. More with Jose Antonio Vargas in just a moment.