Three in Terror Probe Charged With Falsifying Statements
NGUYEN: All right, children. They can tell the difference between races much earlier than we ever thought. Well, that is according to a new study by the University of Texas.</s>HOLMES: David Scott with our affiliate KXAN tells us what this means for parents.</s>DAVID SCOTT, REPORTER, KXAN: Babies as young as six months notice our color differences, staring longer at photos of people who are different. A study of five-year-olds asked them to sort children's photos into two stacks; 16 percent did it by gender, 68 percent by race. (</s>On camera): The studies on children and race are contradictory, darned if you do, darned if you don't. For example, putting kids in a diverse mix with others can be positive, but it also accentuates the differences between them. Likewise, parents talking to their young children about race can be a positive, but it can also plant racial concepts in a child's mind where none existed. (</s>Voice over): It used to be thought children only noticed race when society pointed it out. Now scientists are not so sure. So, what is a parent to do? Dawn Johnson has a two-year-old.</s>DAWN JONHSON, PARENT: I think it is a quandary. If you start pointing it out to children at an early age, even if you have the best interests, you're still pointing out differences.</s>SCOTT: Another dilemma for parents, they can't always control the influences on their child.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If we didn't put the emphasis on race, then maybe it wouldn't be such a big deal.</s>SCOTT (On camera): If children are developing racial attitudes at an early age, why do you think that is?</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it can be because of outside influences, family, friends.</s>SCOTT (voice over): Studies show children naturally gravitate to people like themselves. Only 8 percent of white high schoolers have a best friend of another race. Blacks are more comfortable talking about it. And 75 percent of black parents bring up race with their kindergartners. Only 25 percent of whites do the same. And kids remember those talks.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's all different colors in the world, but either way, you should treat people the same, no matter what.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you have close contact with your grandparents, your grandparents are always going to be talking about the stories and stuff like that. So I guess you would develop some kind of separation, but in some ways that hurts us.</s>SCOTT: The lessons of a child. David Scott, KXAN, Austin News.</s>NGUYEN: So what do you think? Do you believe it? We want to know what your thoughts are today. E-mail us, weekends@cnn.com. Or find us on Facebook and Twitter. We also have a blog, cnn.com/betty or cnn.com/tj.</s>HOLMES: From the CNN Center in Atlanta, Georgia, this is CNN SUNDAY MORNING for this September 20th. Hello to you all. I'm T.J. Holmes.</s>NGUYEN: Hi there, everybody. I'm Betty Nguyen. It's a busy morning. Got a lot to tell you about. In fact, there is a developing story, first up, this morning. It's 7 a.m., here in Atlanta, 5 a.m. in Denver, Colorado Why are we pointing that out? Well, because there have been three arrests, two of them in Colorado.</s>HOLMES: Two of the, the father and son, arrested in Colorado. Also another man arrested in Queens. This is all part of a supposed terror investigation we have been watching for the past several days. Federal authorities now coming out and saying, yes, we have three people that we have arrested, but not necessarily on terror charges.</s>NGUYEN: Right. And that's key here because there's an investigation as to, you know, exactly where this plot was going. Was it going to be mass transit, what cities and whatnot? But the people that they were really looking at, especially one guy in particular, he and his father have been arrested on false statements. So, where does this all lead? Where is it going? We're trying to get the latest now. Homeland Security Correspondent Jeanne Meserve joins us now live from Denver where two arrests have been made. Bring us up to speed as to what is happening right now in this investigation, Jeanne.</s>MESERVE: Well, T.J. and Betty, as you say, Najibullah Zazi, he's the man who's been at the center of this investigation. He was arrested last night, as well as his father, Muhammad. And in New York, an acquaintance of theirs was picked up. His name is Ahmad Afzali. All are charge with lying to the FBI during a terror investigation. According to the charging documents, Afzali -- the man in New York -- tipped off the Zazis to the fact that the FBI was investigating them. But then, according to this document, they allegedly lied to investigators about that fact. As you mentioned, these are not terror charges, but they do shed some light on the evidence being collected. Now, you know that the younger Zazi and his attorney have both denied that he's admitted having any ties with al Qaeda. But according to these court documents, the younger Zazi, Najibullah Zazi, has admitted going to a training camp in Pakistan and getting training in explosives and weapons. It also says that on his computer, they found a JPEG with nine pages of handwritten instructions on explosives and specifics of detonators and fusing systems. It also says that during FBI interviews, Zazi denied writing those or seeing those. It also says that during a search of an apartment in Queens, they found a scale and batteries all with Zazi's fingerprints upon them. But once again, these are not terrorism charges and they do not lay out the specifics of any alleged plot to detonate explosives in the U.S. But what this does, it allows authorities to hold these men and question them further as the investigation unfolds in the U.S. and elsewhere. Back to you.</s>T.J. HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR: And, Jeanne, I guess we certainly shouldn't assume, but have we been led to believe, at least, and maybe even read some of the tea leaves out there that let us know that maybe some more charges are going to be coming for these men?</s>MESERVE: Well, we don't know for certain. All we know is this -- they're going to be in court on Monday. If they're convicted on these charges, they could each face eight years in prison. But it would certainly be surprising to me -- as someone who's been watching this case for the last week -- if this was the end of the charges against them.</s>HOLMES: All right. Jeanne Meserve for us in Denver live this early morning -- Jeanne, we really do appreciate you this morning.</s>NGUYEN: All right. Well, this investigation is far from over. According to arrest affidavits, the FBI is looking into a possible plot to detonate improvised explosive devices right here in the U.S. and that agents are interested in several individuals in the U.S., Pakistan and elsewhere. So, it is wide ranging. CNN national security analyst Peter Bergen joins me now by phone. Peter, let's just start with the arrests that we know of so far -- three people. How significant is this considering they've only been arrested on making false statements?</s>PETER BERGEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST (via telephone): Well, you know, if indeed Zazi, the person at the center of this, has admitted that he's attended an al Qaeda training camp, a very plausible charge that would follow these charges of false statements is providing material support to a terrorist organization. Now, material support can include yourself, which a number of terrorism cases in the United States, from John Walker Lindh, the so-called "American Taliban," to many others have revolved around this material support charge. That is certainly a plausible charge in this case. But the other, I think, interesting thing about this is that we're seeing Afghans being charged. We really haven't seen very much of that in this country. The Afghan-American population has not been radicalized by the war in Afghanistan. But similar to the cases that we saw in Minneapolis with the Somali kids who were radicalized by what was going on in their home country, you know, we are now seeing the very small glimmerings of people who appear to being radicalized by the events in their own country, Betty.</s>BERGEN: You know, I mean, I think it's still a pretty small phenomenon. The American Muslim community tends to reject the al Qaeda ideology almost entirely, although generally better educated than most Americans, on average, have higher incomes, don't live in ghettos, don't tend to be very radicalized. However, just in the last year or so, we have seen a sort of constellation of cases, none of which are really link, which do raise the issue whether it was -- you may recall in North Carolina, or cases in Minnesota with Somalis, a case in Long Island of a guy how attended an al Qaeda training camp, it appears, in 2008. And so, you know, there have been, in the last year or so, more of these cases than we've seen in the past, Betty.</s>NGUYEN: Well, let's talk about the issue at hand right now. We've had these three arrests. Could that be enough to thwart a plot if indeed one was underway to attack some major rail systems or commuter systems here in the U.S.?</s>BERGEN: Yes -- I mean, no doubt. I mean, the allegation is that they were looking to attack some kind of transportation hub. But -- I mean, from what we know from the available information, this was still very much aspirational rather than operational. I mean, the big difference between this case and some other cases that we've seen is what prosecutors often refer to is overt acts. So, going to Pakistan to a training camp is -- you know, it's more than just discussion of a potential terrorist act. It is -- you know, it is the kind of thing that you do as preparation to do something serious.</s>NGUYEN: All right. National security analyst, Peter Bergen, joining us live by phone -- we're going to see you in our 8:00 hour, as well. Thanks so much for your insight this morning. We'll be talking with you shortly.</s>HOLMES: Meanwhile, the affidavits -- you can read them about these three men. You can read them online. Josh Levs tells us where we can find them. Hello, again, Josh.</s>JOSH LEVS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello to you, guys. Yes, it is interesting. You know, you hear about the story, a lot of people waking up just getting this. You can see the details and it might get answers to some of the things you're wondering, like what led to these arrests, what do the authorities have and not have, what was said. Let's zoom right in. We have a lot of video for you about this story. We have a lot of information. This right here is a link to where the government has posted all these affidavits and arrest warrants. And you can see through here where they actually give you, the text of all of them. And the accusation against all three -- I've taken a look -- it's all the same. They say each did knowingly and willfully make a materially false, fictitious and fraudulent statement in representation in a matter involving international and domestic terrorism. That's the accusation against them. Obviously, we have a lot to learn about what did transpire. We're also this morning following our affiliate Web sites that are giving us a lot of information here. KDVR is one of them -- sending us photos and asking this question: what if Zazi is innocent? In that area, in the Denver area, there has been a question for days now, ever since the raid, a lot of people are talking about that. Does it make sense? Does the government have enough information? A lot of the latest photos as well. Also, another one of our affiliates here, KMGH, has been following each detail of this, sending us photos and updated information. Here's what we're going do, we're following all this as well as the affidavits from the government. This shows the raid the other day. We're going to take these links and we're going to post them for you in some place that you can find all of them very easily. It will be at our newsroom, CNN.com/Josh. We'll be there in just a few minutes. Also put on Facebook and Twitter. If you want to read these updates yourself, if you want to read the affidavits, as well, see what the government says it has on each of them. And we're going to be back in the next hour with the latest that's coming in online about this story, Betty and</s>T.J. HOLMES: All right, Josh, we appreciate it. See you again here shortly. We'll turn to the president now. He's setting a record today, appearing on five -- count them -- five Sunday talk shows, trying to use his personal powers of persuasion to try to win over folks in the debate over health care reform. Let's head now to our senior White House correspondent, Ed Henry. He's live for us in Washington. Ed, as always, good to see you, kind sir.</s>ED HENRY, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning,</s>T.J. HOLMES: One of the producers up in New York coined this Obama- palooza that we're seeing today. Why do they think this is the way to go? After we've seen a couple rallies, we've seen speeches, we've seen the joint session of Congress -- why is this necessary?</s>HENRY: Well, it's interesting, because when you talk to top White House aides, they laugh off this charge of overexposure. They say that they believe that when they get the president out there talking about substantive issues like health care, they think the American people respond. And you mentioned it -- obviously, this is a blitz now by the entire First Family, basically. The president gave that speech to the joint session of Congress. Last weekend, he was on "60 Minutes" -- millions of people seeing that. This week, he was -- on Thursday, for example -- at the University of Maryland, in this area in Washington, at College Park, sort of a campaign-style rally, really trying to turn up the volume on this fight for health care reform. His wife, the first lady, Michelle Obama was out on Friday. She was talking about -- from the White House -- about how health care and some of the challenges with the insurance industry in particular affects women, affects families. And so, you go across the board and move forward to this morning, you called it Obama-palooza. Others call it the "full Ginsburg" -- because you remember back during the Monica Lewinsky story, she had a lawyer who named William Ginsburg, who, one Sunday, appeared on all the Sunday talk shows. It was known as the full Ginsburg. Others have tried to do that and go out and do all the shows. But no president has ever tried to do it and it shows how he is putting all his chips on the table.</s>HOLMES: And you mentioned that they are -- the White House is laughing off this idea of overexposure. But there are some others out there who think this is not necessarily a good thing. And certainly, if they don't think he's saying anything new, if the American people think he's just out there again and again and again and not -- and still waiting for something different, something new, something more specific.</s>HENRY: Absolutely. And the critics on the Republican side are already jumping on the fact that each network that did these interviews on Friday at the White House, they'll be rolling them out this morning, starting with John King right here on CNN at 9:00 a.m. Eastern Time. That's where people really get to decide for themselves -- see what he actually said. Each network over the weekend was only allowed to put out one bit of sound, one sound bite from the interview. And Republicans are already pointing out that most of the networks chose a sound bite, including CNN, about the president basically talking about race and whether he believes that his race is a factor in some of the criticism over health care and other issues. And what Republicans are pointing out immediately is, why are the networks not putting out sound bites about the public option or sound bites about the cost of health insurance? Is it because the president said nothing new? That's the criticism that's out there in pre-game, if you will. But we're going to kick all this off on CNN just in less than two hours now. And people will be able to decide for themselves, there's always noise in the pre-game. Let's hear the president speak and he'll do it right here on</s>CNN. HOLMES: All right. We'll see about the actually game later a bit later. And then the post-game, you know they'll be talking again.</s>HENRY: Or maybe a lot of Monday morning quarterbacking.</s>HOLMES: Of course, they will. Ed Henry -- as always, good to see you. Thank you so much.</s>HENRY: Thanks,</s>T.J. HOLMES: We'll see you again soon. And you can watch President Obama later this morning on "STATE OF THE UNION " with John King two hours from now -- 9:00 Eastern, 6:00 Pacific, right here on</s>CNN. NGUYEN: Well, there's more on the breaking news story that we've been telling you about this morning. Three men arrested right here in the U.S. with possible connections with al Qaeda. Stay with us.