Famous Names Among Ashley Madison`s Cheater List
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: This is a site that says, "We can make an affair possible." Hackers said that they hacked into the site. They had the data and that they were going put it out there if Ashley Madison did not shut down.</s>DR. ROBI LUDWIG, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Well, they had it coming. These are cheaters. They deserve to be outed. They were doing something wrong.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Personal information, e-mails, phone numbers, user names. Now you have a bunch of sites where all you have to do is put in an e-mail address and you can find out if someone was on that list. This is a huge black eye for Ashley Madison, which really sold itself on being 100 percent discreet.</s>DR. LUDWIG: Anything that anybody puts online can be made public, and so that is what is really scary.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Ashley Madison is still up and running, probably not going to get a lot of business.</s>PINSKY: And they may not be attracting new clients but millions of old ones are in danger of being exposed. I am back with Sam, Vanessa, Mike and Loni. And, we just mentioned, I asked Mike, you know, why are not people really cluing in to the unethical hacking, the illegal hacking and --</s>CATHERWOOD: that is the point. Yes.</s>PINSKY: I mean it is sort of weirdly, moralistically satisfying these people, who were outed.</s>CATHERWOOD: Yes.</s>PINSKY: But, thousands of millions of lives --</s>CATHERWOOD: If this was like your Amazon account, no -- there would no controversy here. We would be like, "We must catch these hackers. They are going to bring us down." The fact of the matter that, you know, Ashley Madison is devoted to cheating. Sure, a lot of us morally do not agree with that. It does not change the fact. It is a legal business. It is a very legitimate business.</s>PINSKY: They did not break laws.</s>CATHERWOOD: And, they did not do anything wrong in the eyes of the law. And, the hackers, like aggressively, broke the law. And, we -- I mean, I think reporting on and then promoting the idea that they are going to expose all these people who have accounts on Ashley Madison, you are an accomplice to these hackers. That is all you are doing. You are promoting someone who broke the law and then really could only expose how unsafe we are in anything we do on here.</s>SCHACHER: Yes.</s>PINSKY: Which is not a bad thing to be reminded of. Yes, sir</s>LAMAR TURNER, MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Mike, initially, you say you were one of the horniest 14-year-olds.</s>CATHERWOOD: Yes.</s>BARNETT: Jesus!</s>TURNER: I beg to differ.</s>CATHERWOOD: OK.</s>BARNETT: Oh!</s>PINSKY: One of. One of. One of.</s>BARNETT: Random facts.</s>TURNER: My name is Lamar Turner.</s>PINSKY: Hello, Lamar.</s>TRUNER: I know two gentlemen, who are locally where I live at and they are part of like a cheating marriage group.</s>PINSKY: Are they swingers or they cheaters?</s>TURNER: No, they are cheating on their wives.</s>PINSKY: And, the wives do not know about it, do not sign of it.</s>TURNER: Wives do not know about it.</s>BARNETT: And they are your friends?</s>TURNER: Well, I know them. I grew up with them.</s>BARNETT: Ah.</s>PINSKY: OK, yes.</s>TURNER: I am college educated and I respect the sanctity of marriage. This is hurtful.</s>PINSKY: Yes.</s>TURNER: So, we talk to them -- well, I talk to them all the time, and they are like, "Oh, you know, should check it out." Well, first of all, I am not married. Secondly, I would not do it.</s>PINSKY: Yes.</s>TURNER: I would do it. Why get married and then cheat?</s>PINSKY: Why get married -- why get married especially if you have kids. It is an attack on the person you say you love most in the world and an attack on your kids. You are attacking, directly harming -- putting them in harm`s way. What the hell is the matter with people? Well, I got someone on the phone. Her name is Marie. She found a partner for -- we are going to call her Marie. She found a partner on Ashley Madison for extra marital affair.</s>CATHERWOOD: Call him Donnie.</s>PINSKY: Donnie and Marie, yes.</s>CATHERWOOD: What?</s>PINSKY: Marie, what motivated you to go on the site?</s>MARIE, HAD EXTRAMARITAL AFFAIR ON ASHLEY MADISON SITE: Well, actually, I was planning on getting divorce anyway. And, I happened to hear about Ashley Madison on one of the radio stations, so I checked it out. And, at the time, I was honestly looking to sort of friends with benefits and it was the perfect site to go on.</s>PINSKY: And, as opposed to other dating sites because those --</s>MARIE: Well, of course, because the other dating sites had single men, who would want to attach themselves to you if they supposedly fell in love with you, and that is definitely not what I was looking for.</s>BARNETT: I do not think it is hard to find a man who just want -- I do not think that is a difficult task. CATHERWOODL Yes.</s>MARIE: And, to tell you the truth, back then, because that was over six years ago, and I have since gone on Match.com and some of the other sites, and there are just as many men married or with partners on those sites.</s>PINSKY: Wow. But, what about like Tinder, places like that?</s>MARIE: Of course, of course.</s>CATHEWOOD: I know from my experience --</s>MARIE: Yes. And, they will specify right in their profile.</s>CATHERWOOD: From my experience on Grinder, you know, I found that --</s>PINSKY: You are a grinder. Is it -- did not you feel guilty going on a site, which you knew the men were married. It was not like it was possibly they were married. You knew for sure these were married men.</s>MARIE: No, because I was not out to destroy anyone`s family.</s>PINSKY: Yes, but --</s>MARIE: It was strictly for sex, and that is what most of these guys are for. They want to get laid.</s>CATHERWOOD: Mary or Marie, you said at the beginning of the interview that you were definitely planning on getting divorce. Why not just follow through with it or be separated and then, you know, behave like a grown adult, do what you want to do?</s>BARNETT: The big question is, where were you getting divorce? Did your man cheated on you?</s>MARIE: Because at the time -- well, fortunately, for me I have a very high sex drive and nothing was happening at home.</s>CATHERWOOD: No. No. My point being is then, if you were definitely planning on getting divorce, why not just separate and then bang whoever you want and not have to go on Ashley Madison?</s>MARIE: Because it is just, you know, like what everyone else does, like living on the edge, something different. Everyone else do.</s>PINSKY:  OK -- SCHACHER: I think my concern here is Marie, as you said earlier, just a few seconds ago, that you did not think it was destroying a family by sleeping with a married man. That right there, that statement just kind of underscores everything in my book. Why do you not see it that way?</s>BARNETT: The disconnect.</s>SCHACHER: Yes.</s>MARIE: Because I was not going out to intentionally take that man away from his family. It was strictly sex.</s>PINSKY: But, you see, people have a weird sometimes thinking about this, Loni.</s>COOMBS: Yes.</s>PINSKY: That somehow it is just sex, "Oh, that is no big deal."</s>COOMBS: Well, yes.</s>PINSKY: For men, by the way, the way we are evolutionary wired, men, if a female spouse is having just sex -- that is the end of the game for men.</s>COOMBS: Yes.</s>PINSKY: I should be often for women, the same thing.</s>COOMBS: Yes. And, you know, people assume it is all just the guys that, you know, who want to cheat. But the women are out there in the numbers, too, at 40 percent. Then, you know, people who are cheating, they have a lot of different ways to rationalize it. You know, it is selfish reasons. I do not think about the family, so they must not really be impacted by this.</s>PINSKY": Right.</s>COOMBS: It is two consenting adults. We both want to do it. So, they do not think about the little kids at home and what the other spouse is going to feel.</s>PINSKY: They are compartmentalizing it.</s>SCHACHER: Or when you get caught, which people do more oftentimes than not.</s>BARNETT: Exactly.</s>PINSKY: Let me ask you this. Is anybody tempted to look -- there is a site now where you can look to see if your spouse`s email is there --</s>BARNETT: No.</s>SCHACHER: No. I do not even think to find it there. No.</s>PINSKY: I mean I think people should check if they have any question.</s>BARNETT: No, you should trust the person you are with.</s>SCHACHER: I do not think for a second that my husband is on that.</s>PINSKY: No. I am not saying he is.</s>BARNETT: Absolutely not.</s>PINSKY: I mean just --</s>SCHACHER: Put your e-mail in there, no!</s>PINSKY: That is the point. If you have any question, put it in there.</s>COOMBS: I do think it is important, though, that people before they go, if they are going to check, they have to understand it is not automatically they cheated. I mean they logged on to the website --</s>PINSKY: Yes.</s>COOMBS: -- or somebody might have used their email. There is some fraudulent use of e-mails on there. And, some went on and never made contact.</s>SCHACHER: That is like my dog ate my homework.</s>COOMBS: And, I think it is important for people to go on before they ruin their lives that they actually find out -- that is why a lot of people are hiring private investigators to find out, exactly, what it means the e-mail is on there or the spouses are coming forward and saying -- I am just saying, before somebody goes on there and starts, you know, throwing the clothes out the window, and finds --</s>SCHACHER: Yes.</s>COOMBS: Let us figure out what exactly happened.</s>SCHACHER: Right.</s>COOMBS: We do not need more marriages broken up.</s>PINSKY: I am going to put the -- they are telling me to hang on something. I want to talk about Jeff Ashton, who is the prosecutor -- the prosecutor in the --</s>SCHACHER: Casey Anthony trial.</s>PINSKY: -- Casey Anthony. We actually interviewed him on the program. And, he is now the state attorney in Florida, and he had a case on it.</s>CATHERWOOD: That is a job.</s>PINSKY: Yes. Well, take a look at this.</s>JEFF ASHTON, STATE ATTORNEY FOR ORANGE AND OSCEOLA COUNTIES IN CENTRAL FLORIDA: While I indulged my curiosity about the site, it never went beyond that. While no laws have been broken, these were incredibly stupid choices. Those choices have had absolutely no impact on the performance of my official duties.</s>BARNETT: You got the nerve of live crying now. You were not crying when you were trying to hook up with these women. And, everyone keep saying, "Oh, I did not meet anyone in person." It is such BS. It is totally your dog ate your homework. I am so old for this.</s>CATHERWOOD: You know, in my opinion -- you know, I am not trying to sell this guy out or anything, but if you get an account on Ashley Madison, you have already cheated in my opinion.</s>SCHACHER: Yes.</s>COOMBS: Yes, absolutely.</s>CATHERWOOD: If you are a married man and you expressed curiosity in Ashley Madison --</s>SCHACHER: You are looking.</s>CATHERWOOD: -- you have gone through far, you know.</s>SCHACHER: You are hunting.</s>PINSKY: Where else are you looking, too</s>COOMBS: Yes and I agree. If that is where you draw the line, that is where you draw the line. But, if you look at the numbers, there is actually -- in 2014, I believe, there is like 9,000 people who went to the website but only 2,000 went further than that and paid -- because you actually have to pay fees as you go along to actually make contact. So, you could look at those records. But, like you said, if it is a matter -- if they went on the website, that to you breaks your trust then that is --</s>SCHACHER: This is so sad.</s>PINSKY: It is sad.</s>SCHACHER: The only people that are happy are divorce attorneys. I am sure they are celebrating.</s>PINSKY: Listen, I did that and I did that --</s>SCHACHER: Right?</s>PINSKY: I am curious that divorce court documentary about the amount of money spent on divorce. Do not get married if you do not want to get married, do not have to get married.</s>SCHACHER: Yes.</s>PINSKY: But, do not have babies out of wedlock either, which is -- well, somehow, people feel like that is what the alternative is. Look, take your time. Pick somebody you want to spend the rest of your life with, who you actually love, whom you would not treat somebody you love like this.</s>CATHERWOOD: Yes.</s>BARNETT: Yes.</s>PINSKY: You would not do that. So -- And you would not attack your kids who you also claim to love. Stop it, everybody. Be adults about this. You make a sanctifying vow in front of God and everybody and then you just crap all over them. Really, is that the world we live in now? All right, next up, a Facebook post about Black Lives Matter enrages the online community. We will see about it after this.