Interview with Senator John Thune
HARLOW: A lot of confusion and questions this morning over Judge Neil Gorsuch, the president's pick to join the Supreme Court. All of this as his confirmation hearing has not even been scheduled yet. Gorsuch, who is making his case to senators from both parties on Capitol Hill this week, told some Republicans and some Democrats that he finds the attacks on the judiciary and judges personally, quote, "demoralizing and disheartening," of course those alluding to attacks one would think the president made on the judiciary.</s>BERMAN: Now the president is also firing back at one of those lawmakers, Democratic Senator Richard Blumenthal of Connecticut, saying he misrepresented Gorsuch's comment. So the Republican who has served as a spokesman for Gorsuch said it's all true. The president also at odds this morning with Senator John McCain over the raid in Yemen that left a U.S. Navy SEAL dead. Joining us now, Republican Senator John Thune of South Dakota. He is the chair of Senate Republican Conference. Senator Thune, thank you so much for joining us this morning.</s>SEN. JOHN THUNE (R), SOUTH DAKOTA: Good morning, John and Poppy. Congratulations on the launch of the show.</s>HARLOW: Thank you.</s>BERMAN: Thank you so much. I'm so impressed you guys all got the memo.</s>BERMAN: Listen -- listen, you are the chair of the Republican Conference and one of your senators in the is under attack by the White House this morning. I'm talking about Senator John McCain, the chairman of the Armed Services Committee. President Trump wrote this morning, "Senator McCain should not be talking about the success or failure of a mission to the media, only emboldens the enemy. He's been losing so long he doesn't know how to win anymore." You're reaction to that, Senator.</s>THUNE: Well, look. I think the reaction to the mission, we lost a Navy SEAL, you can't call it 100 percent success any time that happens. But we did kill three al Qaeda -- AQAP operatives and also gathered some very valuable intelligence. So I think you could characterize it at least as a mixed bag and somewhat of a success. But it just shows how difficult these counterterrorism missions are. And hopefully we'll learn some lessons from this and be able to improve on our tactics for the next confrontation. But with respect to the conversation that's going on about that, look, I think these are both people who have strong views, and I think that the president and Senator McCain obviously have different conclusions about what happened here. But I think the important thing is that we focus on the work of defending the country, making sure that we learn from this and do a better job next time.</s>HARLOW: I think everyone in this country is all for a heated and spirited debate between people in the same party or opposing parties. However, it's the personal attacks I think that John and I are trying to ask you what your opinion is about that, because as you know, this is a president who as a candidate said that John McCain was not a war hero. And now he's calling him someone who loses and going against him personally as well. Is that something you're comfortable with as a sitting Republican?</s>THUNE: John McCain is a hero. And a United States senator who speaks his mind and somebody that we all listen to, particularly when it comes to national security matters. So yes, I don't think it's -- it's probably not advisable for that line of discussion or that conversation to be going on publicly. I think the important thing is that there are things that we all agree on, things that we want to get done for the good of the country. And at some point the president is going to need senators, every Republican senator, because we only have a 52-vote majority here in the United States Senate, in order to accomplish his agenda. So I hope everybody can kind of dial it down a bit and keep focused on the things that unite us and that's really getting the economy growing again, creating better paying jobs, and lessening the regulatory burden on businesses in this country, and looking at ways that we can strengthen our national security and keep Americans safe in what is increasingly a dangerous world.</s>BERMAN: And Senator, I'm also sure you want to get, you know, Gorsuch confirmed as a Supreme Court justice. You've spoken in glowing terms about Judge Gorsuch. You say he's the kind of judge who knows how to call balls and strikes. You sort of said that some of the president's recent comments about judges are off the plate in terms of balls and strikes. I'm wondering if you agree with him that comments about the judiciary, criticism about specific judges, if you agree, if demoralizing and disheartening?</s>THUNE: Well, I think, John, that that -- those comments demonstrate that this is an independent judge and why it's important that we go about the process of confirming him. He clearly is somebody who has great respect for the court, great respect for the rule of law, someone who has been universally respected on both sides of the political aisle and has issued opinions as a judge on the Tenth Circuit that have drawn not only a lot of attention but a lot of praise. I think this is somebody who ought to be able to go through a process, get fair consideration, obviously answer hard questions, but at the end of the day get an up and down vote. And I think the statements that he's making demonstrate to me his independence and his ability to judge with impartiality and to call balls and strikes, which is what I think most Americans look for when they think about the Supreme Court.</s>HARLOW: Some also see, Senator, Judge Gorsuch's willingness to go into these meetings with Republicans and Democrats lawmakers on the Hill this week, and say these things, alluding to the president's comments and call it disheartening, et cetera, and demoralizing to talk about the judiciary in that way. They see that as a play -- a very smart political tactic on his part to get the eight votes that he needs to get to 60 -- a Democrat he needs to get to 60 votes in the Senate for confirmation. But some are criticizing the fact that he's not willing to come out and say that publicly. How do you see that?</s>THUNE: I think that he'll get that opportunity when he testifies in front of the Judiciary Committee here in the Senate and goes through the confirmation process. He'll get lots of questions. I'm sure many questions perhaps on this very issue. So he'll have a chance to answer on the record most of these meetings that he has with members of Congress. I think are by and large tend to be sort of private meetings, although this is obviously something that got leaked out into the public domain. And again, I think what it represents, however, is in these meetings that he's having with members of Congress, both Republicans and Democrats, he has been willing to express an independence and that's something we're all looking for. When it comes to the judiciary and our constitutional democracy, an independent judiciary is absolutely foundational to our success. And I frankly like the fact that the judge is speaking his mind.</s>HARLOW: One thing that I found was interesting, if you do have one more moment is that when he was questioned by the Senate in 2006, when he was being questioned by Senator Lindsey Graham for his Tenth Circuit nomination, he was asked by Lindsey Graham, the best you can, describe what you think an ideologue would be and why it would be bad. Here's what he said, "Someone who is not willing to do what I just talked about, someone who is not willing to listen with an open mind to the arguments of counsel to his colleagues, to precedent, and someone who is willing to just willy-nilly disregard those things to the effect of his own personal views." It was interesting to hear those words from him years ago in contrast to what the president said this week, yesterday, about the Ninth Circuit and, you know, going in the wrong direction, and that a high school graduate could decide this. How do you see it?</s>THUNE: Again, I think the reason that he got overwhelmingly and unanimously confirmed when he was up for the Tenth Circuit a decade ago was for that very reason. I think people saw in him the qualities that they want to see in members of the bench. You know, the decision that is percolating now through the courts in the Ninth Circuit, the Ninth Circuit has been overturned by the Supremes about 90 percent of the time. But I think that, you know, you -- the courts and all around the country, we know where the sort of left of center courts are, right of center courts are. But they have a job to do, and it's a job that is necessary in our system of checks and balances, and I think we have to respect that role. And I think Judge Gorsuch does, which is why, again, I think he's getting reviews on both sides of the aisle up here, as someone who will be an independent, impartial judge, and ultimately somebody who I hope will benefit from an up and down vote and be confirmed to the Supreme Court.</s>BERMAN: All right. Senator John Thune from South Dakota, thank you so much for joining us on our premier week. Really appreciate it, sir.</s>THUNE: Thanks, guys. Great to be with you.</s>BERMAN: All right. We'll be right back.