Beltway Feuding; Media's Obsession With 2008
HOWARD KURTZ, HOST (voice over): Beltway feuding: Michael Brown versus George Bush, Karl Rove versus Hillary Clinton. Dick Cheney resignation rumors. And is the press obsessing on 2008 already? Oscar gets political. Are Hollywood and media liberals pushing movies like "Brokeback Mountain?" The Mardi Gras invasion. Did the media illuminate the plight of New Orleans or just join the party? Plus, cable's angry man, Stephen Colbert, tries to stick it to me.</s>STEPHEN COLBERT, THE COLBERT REPORT: Listen here, Kurtz.</s>KURTZ: Welcome to RELIABLE SOURCES, where today we turn our critical lens on an outbreak of political warfare. I'm Howard Kurtz. Ahead, the hype over tonight's Oscars. But first, when President Bush sat down with ABC anchor Elizabeth Vargas this week, she asked him about a congressional report ripping the administration's response to Hurricane Katrina.</s>ELIZABETH VARGAS, ABC NEWS: Do you agree with that assessment that the United States is "woefully unprepared for another natural disaster or attack?"</s>GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There was no situational awareness, and that means that we weren't getting good, solid information from people who were on the ground. In many cases, we were relying upon the media, who happened to have better situational awareness than the government.</s>KURTZ: But the next day, The Associated Press released video of Katrina planning meetings that showed the president did receive some dire warnings from his aides.</s>MAX MAYFIELD, NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER: I don't think anyone can tell you with any confidence right now whether the levees will be topped or not, but that's obviously a very, very grave concern.</s>KURTZ: So, was Bush's account wrong, or is he just being buffeted by the latest media storm? Joining us now in Boston, former presidential adviser David Gergen, now professor at Harvard's Kennedy School of Government and editor-at-large at "U.S. News and World Report." Here in Washington, Linda Douglass, former chief Capitol Hill correspondent for ABC News, now a senior fellow at NYU's Brademas Center for the Study of Congress. And Bill Press, former CNN commentator, now the host of "The Bill Press Show" on Sirius Satellite Radio. Welcome. Bill Press, this Katrina tape story, is it pumped up by the media? I mean, not only were transcripts of those meetings already available to the press, but Bush was not specifically told the levees would be breached. So?</s>BILL PRESS, HOST, "THE BILL PRESS SHOW": Well, I think for the media, first of all, it was Mardi Gras, it came out at Mardi Gras time. Katrina has been one of the biggest stories covered in the last six months. It gave everybody a chance to get a reason to go to New Orleans other than to celebrate Mardi Gras, to bring the thing back. And you know the other thing I found funny about it? It also gave a chance to play that hurricane Max tape and then President Bush's "nobody anticipated the levees." But the biggest thing for me was that the media had really dumped on Michael Brown. And after you see that tape, Michael Brown starts out looking like maybe he wasn't the villain after all. And I found a lot of people in the media, myself included, apologizing to Michael Brown for the rough treatment we gave him when the story first broke.</s>KURTZ: Well, there's a rare press apology. We'll come back to Michael Brown in a second. But David Gergen, everyone knows the government's response to Hurricane Katrina was pretty awful, but are the media now using these tapes in an effort to portray President Bush as a liar about what he knew and when he knew it?</s>DAVID GERGEN, FMR. PRESIDENTIAL ADVISER: Well, as you well know, Howie, what develops in the press often is a storyline, a narrative about -- about a president or about another political figure, and the narrative about this administration has been developed as -- as in the hunting accident, as on the ports, and now with Katrina they've been asleep at the switch. That their problem is not so much their ideas, their problem is their execution. They're not there. They're not doing -- you know, they didn't respond properly. But I have to tell you, unlike some of my colleagues, I think the media underplayed the videotape. Had it not been for these other stories, I think there would have been more exploration of this, and it would have been more of an expose than it became.</s>KURTZ: All right. I want to hear Linda Douglass on that. But first, I want to talk about Michael Brown, because not only did he pop up on that Katrina videotape, he's been giving a lot of television interviews. Let's take a look at Brown with NBC's Brian Williams and CNN's Wolf Blitzer.</s>BRIAN WILLIAMS, NBC NEWS: A lot of people down in the Gulf region feel that a lot of you have blood on your hands. People were left in that Superdome for a week. It was an awful situation. Who bears the responsibility for this?</s>MICHAEL BROWN, FMR. FEMA DIRECTOR: Well, I think that we all do.</s>WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: You can't just blame Chertoff. You've got to blame the president, too.</s>BROWN: Well, ultimately, are you right. I mean, I serve at the pleasure of the president. So I'm certain at some point the president may have said, hey, you know, Chertoff, get Brown out of there, or whatever.</s>KURTZ: So, first, on Michael Brown, is he this -- this media blitz, are journalists receptive to that because now he's criticizing Bush and Chertoff and the administration?</s>LINDA DOUGLASS, FMR. ABC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Well, you can probably say that. I mean, clearly, this whole video release has been very helpful to Michael Brown. He has taken maximum advantage of it -- look, I warned them it was going to be dangerous. But this video was a Rorschach already for whatever your point of view was. The Democrats could say that the president said that we were prepared. See, he wasn't even asking any questions. Michael Brown pointed to the fact that the president was asking lots of questions and was very engaged. The Republicans are also pointing to the fact that Max Mayfield said the levees would be topped, as you said, but not necessarily that they would be breached, that they would break open and flood the city. So, at the end of the day I don't think it really moved the ball forward at all except for Michael Brown.</s>KURTZ: Max Mayfield, the director of the National Hurricane Center, and Brownie doing a heck of a job, at least, with his media blitz. Now, let me move on to Vice President Cheney. Inside a conservative magazine this week, reported that Cheney is "expected to retire within a year, according to senior GOP sources." Bill Press, should the media give this any attention at all?</s>PRESS: Oh, absolutely. I mean, this is delicious speculation for Washington.</s>KURTZ: Well, it's speculation.</s>PRESS: No -- totally.</s>KURTZ: Yes.</s>PRESS: But that's -- we thrive on that, don't we? I mean -- and also, when your polls are at 18 percent, you understand how this rumor might get started. But just imagine now the fun that we're going to have on speculating whom President Bush might appoint if, indeed, Dick Cheney does resign. That's all we need for, I think, six months of a good story.</s>KURTZ: I have already seen some of that. The name Condi Rice comes out. But David Gergen, what do you think both about this Cheney resignation rumor and the larger question of, in the wake of the hunting accident, whether the media are just really ganging up on Dick Cheney?</s>GERGEN: Well, there's no question that the media has been ganging up on him and beating up on him. But, you know, this is about, what, the third or fourth time this story has come out? It comes out about every two or three months, and it doesn't get a lot of play, but people keep on -- you know, there's a little whisper started thing. But there is zero evidence. And when you have to ask yourself does -- the idea here would be to put the heir apparent in place. Well, now who in the world is the heir apparent in this environment?</s>DOUGLASS: Well, yes, exactly. As David says, there's no evidence at all that there's -- that this comes from any place credible. The president would have to admit that he made some kind of mistake, which he's not inclined to do. Cheney's bad poll numbers aren't necessarily causing the president's bad poll numbers. Those are caused by other things. Though, there is a story starting to circulate in Washington circles that there is a White House staff change coming up. So that may be something behind some of this. Not having to do with Cheney, but just somebody else in the White House staff.</s>KURTZ: Yes -- go ahead.</s>PRESS: Howie, I think it will be interesting to see some of the Republicans react to whom, as David said, they might put in as the heir apparent. I mean, I don't think Sam Brownback will take it lying down if Bill Frist gets in.</s>KURTZ: But you can't have an heir apparent without an opening. And right now the job is full. Now, since we're talking about politics, former "Washington Times" reporter Bill Sammon out with a book called "Strategery," in which he interviewed the president and others. He quotes Karl Rove in that book. The senior presidential consiglieri saying about Hillary Clinton that she will win the Democratic nomination, she will not win the presidency. That she is very liberal and that there is a brittleness about her. Now, is it news that the president's top strategist would say this about Mrs. Clinton?</s>PRESS: No. What I find interesting is that they're focusing on 2008. Right now Republicans haven't found a candidate to run against Hillary Rodham Clinton in New York. They're thinking about...</s>KURTZ: In 2006.</s>PRESS: In 2006. No, exactly. So why are we talking about 2008? To me, the most interesting part of that story was it prompted a response from Dick Morris, who was a Clinton -- number one Clinton hater of all time who said Karl Rove is wrong, Hillary Clinton can win in 2008. So when you get the Clinton haters debating among themselves as to whether Hillary can run or not, I think for us, again, in the media, it's delicious.</s>KURTZ: Well, Dick Morris has to say that because he has a Hillary versus Condi book. And we all think Hillary can't win, it takes the suspense out of it. Now, let's take a look at some of the coverage of this both on CNN and "The Today Show" about Hillary Clinton and all the whole arena of 2008 politics. Let's listen.</s>JIM CLANCY, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: The next president election less than three years away. The big question in many circles is, will Hillary run?</s>MATT LAUER, NBC NEWS: Let's talk about 2008. And there may be some people at home right now, Tim, saying, wait a second, you've got 32 months until this election. Why are you idiots talking about this?</s>KURTZ: So, David Gergen, why are the idiots talking about it? And what do you make of this Hillary obsession?</s>GERGEN: Well, I would say there are a couple reasons why we're talking about it, and that is because George W. Bush is becoming more and more of a lame duck. So the people are looking over his shoulder to see who's next. And what we have shaping up is what could be a terrific fight, and that is between John McCain, whom I think is the leader, even though Giuliani has numbers close to his -- but if you around the country, you'll find McCain is now emerging even among some of the social conservatives who did not want him six months ago, but they don't quite see what the alternative is. He emerges, and is he beating Mrs. Clinton in the polls anywhere from 10 to 18 points, depending on what poll you look at. And so now there's a lot of speculation on the Democratic side about whether Mrs. Clinton is nominated. Well, now some people are saying maybe she will decide not to run after all, which opens up the field. So that's why -- I think it's not unnatural that people with the most wide open race -- no sitting vice president or president will be on the ballot, the first time since 1952. It's natural that people turn a little early to this race.</s>KURTZ: But there is something -- there is this sort of Hillary obsession in the media.</s>GERGEN: Yes.</s>KURTZ: I mean, everybody likes to talk about 2008, Linda Douglass, but Hillary is just like catnip to political reporters.</s>DOUGLASS: Well, but also it's a part of the whole Clinton -- you know, the whole Clinton presence. I mean, the media had a field day with Bill Clinton for eight days. They had a field day with his relationship...</s>KURTZ: Eight years.</s>DOUGLASS: I mean for eight years. They had a field day with his relationship with his wife and her relationship with him and everything that went on all around that. They can't wait to get back to it again.</s>KURTZ: And even now it's like, do they have different positions on the Dubai port deal and all that.</s>DOUGLASS: Exactly, and that's part of it. But the other part of this story is reporters trying to figure out, do the Republicans really think she's a formidable candidate, or are they trying to build her up so that she's inevitable because they think that she's such an easy candidate to beat? And are they coming up with words that will define her like they did with Gore and with Kerry that will hurt her?</s>KURTZ: But what about the 2006 congressional midterm elections? You know, isn't that arguably at this stage of the calendar more important than what might or might now happen two and a half years from now?</s>PRESS: That's the point I was going to make.</s>KURTZ: Yes.</s>PRESS: We're missing the big story. The big story is, with President Bush down at 36, 38, whatever number it is in the polls, the -- and with the ports deal and everything else, the big issue is the 2006 elections, where I think the Republicans, because of some of these missteps, are vulnerable, and that's what we ought to be talking about.</s>KURTZ: But is it that the media are less interested in that because there's no overriding personality, it's a collection of state and local races that are harder to bring into focus?</s>PRESS: It is. It is. There are so many different races. And also, when you talk Hillary, you get numbers, you've got eyeballs.</s>GERGEN: The other thing, Howie, is that coming in to 2006, the Republicans had expected to use this race as a way to really tear down Mrs. Clinton, to make her much less viable as a national candidate. But they've had so much trouble finding a candidate to even stand up against her in New York.</s>KURTZ: That has been very entertaining. Let me break in, David, because I want to get your thoughts on one other thing...</s>GERGEN: Sure.</s>KURTZ: ... and that is the story on the front page of this morning's "Washington Post" about White House effort to stem leaks. And it talks about the administration, the Bush administration, having launched initiatives targeting journalists and their possible government sources. These involve federal employees being questioned on "The New York Times" story about the national security wiretaps, on the "Washington Post" story about secret CIA prisons, Valerie Plame, all of that. Do you -- you have been on both sides of this fence. Do you see this as an administration that really is going after journalists, or just legitimately trying to stem the flow of classified information leaking out to the press?</s>GERGEN: I am glad you brought that up. This administration has engaged in secrecy at a level we have not seen in over 30 years. Unfortunately, I have to bring up the name of Richard Nixon, because we haven't seen it since the days of Nixon. And now what they're doing -- and they're using the war on terror to justify -- is they're starting to target journalists who try to pierce the veil of secrecy and find things and put them in the newspapers. Now, in the past what the government has always done is go after the people who leak, the inside people. That's the way they try to stop leaks. This is the first administration that I can remember, including Nixon's, that said -- and Porter Goss said this to Congress -- that we need to think about a law that would put journalists who print national security things to...</s>KURTZ: Right. Let me briefly...</s>GERGEN: ... bring them up in front of grand juries and put them in jail if they don't -- in effect, if they don't reveal their sources.</s>KURTZ: ... get to Linda Douglass.</s>DOUGLASS: And the Justice Department is talking about using a pre-World War I law to prosecute people who receive classified information. That could be journalists. So now they're talking about potentially prosecuting journalists who simply receive information.</s>KURTZ: We will be talking about this on many programs to come. Perhaps with all of you. Bill Press, sorry we had to cut you off there. Linda Douglass, David Gergen, thanks very much for joining us. When we come back, President Bush hits the road this week, drawing media attention to India, to Pakistan, to Afghanistan. But why doesn't the press pay more attention to the region in the first place? Veteran foreign correspondent Tom Fenton in London joins us just ahead.