Assigning Blame in BP Oil Disaster
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Breaking news tonight: After weeks of agreeing with BP about the size of the oil leak and even saying it's not important to know, tonight, the federal government says they will investigate. But how come it took them so long? And, also, the EPA now demanding less toxic dispersants be used. You just heard the guy from BP on Larry King calling them basically like soap bubbles. They're toxic. How come it took the EPA so long? We're "Keeping Them Honest," BP, the EPA, the Interior Department and the Obama White House, a lot of folks who need to be held accountable right now. James Carville, Doug Brinkley join us in a moment. More breaking news also tonight. We're still working to flesh this one out: late word of new threats against Americans here at home and overseas. The Pakistani Taliban, believed responsible for the Times Square attempt, could be trying again. Also tonight: Do you remember the boy who fled to avoid cancer treatment because of his parents' religious beliefs, then came home and was treated and survived? Well, now there's a new chapter involving his dad, and it is a shocker. And, later, how kids see race -- we will talk with singer/activist John Legend about race, skin color and whether people can really ever be colorblind. As we said, the breaking news tonight, late word that the federal government is putting a team together to finally, finally do what neither they nor BP has tried to do for about three weeks now, actually measure the flow of oil pouring into the Gulf of Mexico from that broken pipe. All along, they have been saying doesn't matter how much oil is actually leaking. Now they're admitting it does. All along, BP, the EPA, NOAA have been saying 5,000 barrels a day were leaking. Independent experts say it could be up to 70,000 barrels. Well, today, BP said they were able to siphon 5,000 barrels of oil directly from the leak -- the leak. But if you look at the live picture -- you can see it, I can see it -- plenty of oil is still pouring into the Gulf. So, if there's only 5,000 barrels leaking a day, and they're siphoning 5,000 barrels, how come there's still oil pouring out? Clearly, they have been underestimating this thing. This new government team's going to try and determine how much oil is actually leaking. It took BP 23 days to release a 30-second clip of video of this leak. Today, for the first time, we got these live images, these live feeds. But these images were provided by BP only after weeks of prodding from Congress and the media. And they weren't even released to the American public, just to Congress, which then put them online. So, we're going to keep these images on the screen while we're reporting the story as a reminder that, every minute of every hour, the spill is just getting bigger. The White House is saying they're getting tougher. Their proof? This letter, a letter written by the EPA and Homeland Security Department. It says that BP hasn't been transparent enough, and it gives them 24 to 48 hours to put all the data online about the leak and its environmental impact. But how come it took them a month to ask for this? Also, last night on this program, the bigwig from BP who you just saw on "LARRY KING" said the EPA had no problem with the dispersants they have been using. That's what he said last night. And, in fact, he compared them to soap bubbles. As I said, he did it again just a moment on a "LARRY KING." Well, today, after a month of doing nothing about the dispersants BP has been dumping into the Gulf, the EPA told them to switch to less potentially toxic chemicals, some of which, according to the EPA, are even more effective. White House correspondent Ed Henry is "Keeping Them Honest." Also, Ed Lavandera is on the Gulf Coast with the dispersants story. We are going to hear from each of them shortly.</s>COOPER: All right, let's dig deeper now with political contributor and Democratic strategist James Carville. He's in New Orleans. With us here in New York tonight, Rice University presidential historian Douglas Brinkley. James, I had a guy on from the -- from BP last night, a high executive. And as I just -- around the same time I'm saying to him, you know, why aren't you using these other dispersants, and he's saying, well, the EPA doesn't have any problem with these dispersants, lo and behold, now we learn that the EPA contacts BP and tells them they have to find less toxic dispersants. What's going on with BP, from your take?</s>JAMES CARVILLE, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: I think that the government thinks they're partnering with BP. I think they actually believe that BP had some kind of a good motivation here. And that's one of the sort of whole flaws is, they're naive. BP is trying to save money, save everything that it can. It knows it's going to get sued multiple times. It knows it's in multiple trouble, and they're trying to play this down and said, oh, it's just a little spill in the Gulf. It's no big deal. But they won't tell us anything. And, oddly enough, the government seems to be going along with this. And they're not -- they -- somebody's got to, like, shake them and say, these people don't wish you well. They're going to take you down.</s>COOPER: What has the EPA been doing for a month, if now, just after a month after this thing, they suddenly wake up and say, oh, wait a minute, in 72 hours, you have got to get different dispersants? I mean, people have been complaining, environmentalists have been complaining about these dispersants for weeks now. Doug Brinkley, you have been talking about it on this program for weeks now. And Ken Salazar, I mean, what have they been doing over, you know, at the Interior Department? I mean, they basically gave oil companies permits without the right kind of clearances. They -- they had a number of inspections they were supposed to do on this rig that they -- they never did. Doug, is the government just -- I mean, is it -- are they just too much in cahoots with BP? Or are they just incompetent?</s>DOUGLAS BRINKLEY, PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: Yes. It's not just with BP. I think there's that conflict between what -- and you can see it in MMS and Interior. On one hand, the federal government needs to collect oil revenues -- $13 billion from offshore comes into our government kitty. We need the offshore energy so much. On the other hand, there are these environmental concerns. And I think the administration, for too long, has played it down the middle. They're trying to kind of stay out of it. I did a bit of a sea change at EPA today, the fact that they denounced BP's use of these dispersants, said there are safer ones. We might be seeing the more energized BP, because this is becoming a political crisis now for the Obama administration.</s>COOPER: It's interesting, James, because, I mean, early on, conservatives were attacking the Obama administration, trying say, look, this is Obama's Katrina. And they fought back against that.</s>COOPER: But -- but, I mean, you know, you do have to raise questions about this Interior Department and this</s>EPA. CARVILLE: You absolutely do. And I think I'm as good a Democrat as -- as most people. And I think the administration has done some good things. They are risking everything by this go-along-with-BP strategy they have. And it -- it seems, like, lackadaisical on this. And Doug is right. They seem like they're inconvenienced by this, this is some kind of giant thing getting in their way, and, somehow or another, if you let BP handle it, it will all go away. It's not going away. It's growing out there. It's a disaster of the first magnitude, and they have got to go to plan</s>B. COOPER: What -- what I also don't understand, just logistically and logically, is that, for three weeks now, BP and NOAA and the EPA have been saying it's 5,000 barrels of oil pouring out of this leak. Now, today, BP is saying, we are collecting 5,000 barrels of oil into a tanker directly from this leak. There is way more oil than just 5,000 barrels. And that is what all these other experts have been saying now for weeks. And no one in the government or BP -- I mean, in fact, they have put out statements saying, it doesn't matter how much is pouring out.</s>BRINKLEY: You know, I think, Anderson, history's going to show these quotes by the -- BP and by Tony Hayward that are just so ludicrous, a future generation of Americans won't believe a head of a fourth largest company would say such a thing. For a -- imagine a CEO in a crisis like this to say it's a tiny spill, when we can see it gushing out, we can see the blob. They said, oh, well, we have put in a straw that's now taking in a lot of the oil. Well, now we -- you have got the video running right now. It's still gushing out. This notion of minimizing it, instead of being in crisis mode from day one, is going to be the problem. BP has been in cover-up mode. And there are going to be -- as James said, I think you are going to have criminal indictments against this company for the way that they have behaved.</s>CARVILLE: You know, hey, I was -- and I apologize to the people of my -- my home state. I didn't mean -- but, I mean, it's so ludicrous, the lies that they tell. If it wouldn't be that we lost the lives of 11 people and we're losing -- we're going to lose some of the most -- the most high- quality, productive seafood areas in the world, not to say that -- that are -- if people lose faith in this drilling, we need the oil. I don't deny that at all. But, right now, I wouldn't trust them to do anything, and nobody does. And they just -- in addition to being -- having criminal exposure, they are going to have a ton of civil exposure. And I sure don't trust BP to do the cleanup.</s>COOPER: We are going to have more with James Carville and Doug Brinkley right after this break. A reminder: The live chat is up and running at AC360.com, so much on this story to talk about. It just doesn't make sense and, factually, just doesn't seem to make sense. Also tonight: the big fight over what's in Texas schoolbooks, why it could affect what your kids will be learning and the big chunks of history some say are going to be missing, no matter where in the country you live. Also, the latest on that possible terror alert, and the final eye-opening insights from our pilot study on kids and race. We will talk to John Legend on whether we will ever be free of friction over skin color.</s>ANNOUNCER: Recently on 360: Bill Maher, Demi Moore, Dr. Phil, Julia Louis-Dreyfus, John Leguizamo, Shakira, and Faith Hill and Tim McGraw. You don't to have miss the "Big 360 Interviews." Set your DVR for A.C. 360.