Killer T.J. Lane Recaptured After Escape
BANFIELD: Ohio school shooter T.J. Lane is now back in custody, believe it or not, after escaping from prison last night. He's now 19 years old, and that young man on your screen is serving three life terms, consecutive life terms, for the 2012 shooting at Chardon High School that killed three classmates. He was captured not far from the prison. He had only been out for about six hours. They searched for that whole six hours. One of the two prisoners said he escaped with is still at large, however. So how was this unremorseful killer able to slip out of prison? You remember that this was the same kid who wore a T-shirt on which he had scribbled "killer." He did that at his sentencing. But you notice how he came in with the button-down and then just took the button-down off, apparently surprising even his own attorney. Joining me to talk about how our country incarcerates juveniles is Judge Alex Ferrer, the former host of "Judge Alex" and Florida circuit judge. First and foremost, before I even get to the juvenile aspect, how on earth does a kid with three life sentences or an adult with three, life, consecutive sentences get to the point where he could actually scale a wall and escape? FERRERIt doesn't really engender a lot of faith in our correctional system, does it?</s>BANFIELD: No, not at all.</s>FERRER: We don't know. Obviously, we don't know yet how he escaped this facility. It's a -- it's not a maximum-security facility, and the department of corrections typically has a lot of leeway in determining where they are going to house inmates. What I'm not really sure about is why would you put somebody who is serving three consecutive life sentences, which is the highest level you're ever going to get, short of the death penalty --</s>BANFIELD: Short of death row.</s>FERRER: -- right -- into anything other than a maximum-security facility.</s>BANFIELD: So what's strange here is that, if you look at the Allen Oakwood Correctional institution where he was being housed and now presumably still is being housed, now that he's been caught, they're -- according to the "Cleveland Plain Dealer," there are five levels of security -- minimum, medium, close, which apparently he was in, maximum, and administrative maximum. So they've got a capacity to put maximum-security prisoners, but currently, there's only four. There are only four people who qualify, and he, according to the "Plain Dealer," was not one of them.</s>FERRER: I don't know how he would not qualify for maximum security. When you're -- typically it's based on the crime you've committing, the sentence you're facing, because obviously if you're in there for life in prison, you have no incentive but try to escape because you're never going to get out of parole. So why he wouldn't be in maximum security -- administrative maximum is typically for people who have violated the rules inside or otherwise --</s>BANFIELD: So it's punishment for the guys inside prison already?</s>FERRER: A larger danger. Not typically, it may vary from state to state, but that's typically what it's used for. But maximum security would seem like the appropriate destination for him, not close.</s>BANFIELD: So let me ask you this. If you saw this in your courtroom, as you were about to hand down sentencing, would that make a difference watching a smiling kid who is now 17 years old -- he was first charged as a juvenile, but he ultimately was adjudicate as an adult, and he's now an adult.</s>FERRER: Yes.</s>BANFIELD: But you see "killer" on a T-shirt and you see a smiling kid who's basically flouting the entire system, does that change what you say and how you hand down sentencing?</s>FERRER: Absolutely. That may very well be why he got three consecutive instead of three concurrent --</s>BANFIELD: Really?</s>FERRER: -- life sentences. Absolutely, because --</s>BANFIELD: It could be a spur-of-the-moment decision from the judge?</s>FERRER: A judge is looking at him and saying this guy has been convicting of killing those three students, and he shows not only zero remorse, he mocks the system? Why would we want to give him an ability to get out and kill more people?</s>BANFIELD: He's lethal.</s>FERRER: Exactly. And you see defendants do this too, all the time, by the way. They come to their sentencing, and it doesn't dawn on them that the judge hasn't handed down sentencing.</s>BANFIELD: Right.</s>FERRER: And they misbehave, they act out, or they say stupid things.</s>BANFIELD: Or they flip the bird.</s>FERRER: It can totally change.</s>BANFIELD: Real quickly, is anything going to happen? Clearly he's got to be adjudicated in some way for the escape. Will it make any difference?</s>FERRER: No. They will charge him with escape. He'll be convicted of escape and it will be additional years on to three life sentences, which is meaningless, which is why guys like him should be in maximum security. They have nothing to lose.</s>BANFIELD: Perhaps now they will move him into level four.</s>FERRER: Perhaps.</s>BANFIELD: Always good to see you, Judge.</s>FERRER: I won't hold my breath.</s>BANFIELD: Thank you for coming. Appreciate seeing you. Thank you for that. So, if you go by the numbers, it looks like ISIS is much stronger than we first thought, but those terrorists still have nowhere near as many troops as Iraq does, as the Kurds do. So why is it that they are such a force to be reckoned with? And why is it so hard to beat what effectively is a pretty small army? Those questions in a moment.