Interview with Syrian Ambassador Imad Moustapha
FAREED ZAKARIA, HOST, GLOBAL PUBLIC SQUARE: This is GPS, the GLOBAL PUBLIC SQUARE. Welcome to all of you in the United States and around the world. I'm Fareed Zakaria. Now, perhaps the most startling comment I heard this week, and one that was not widely reported, came from Special Envoy Richard Holbrooke discussing our adversaries in Afghanistan and Pakistan. He said he was, quote, deeply, deeply dissatisfied with the degree of knowledge that the United States government and our friends and allies have on the makeup of the Taliban and on its methods. Furthermore, he said, this lack of intelligence impedes our war effort. Think about that. After seven years at war with the Taliban, we still don't know much about them. We don't know what makes people sign up with them, whether there are moderates and extremists, how to divide them, how to reconcile with some elements within the Taliban -- nothing. We are fighting an enemy we don't know and can't understand. This is why Washington has to put greater emphasis on intelligence, specifically human intelligence, something that Secretary of Defense Robert Gates has proposed, and I'm going to talk about at the end of this program. Meanwhile, on to another country about which we know little. Inside the policy community, people have begun speculating about a new role for Syria. The idea goes something like this. Syria, as a major Arab country, is in an unnatural alliance with Iran, historically a foe of Arab states. If we can begin engaging with Syria, we might weaken, soften that alliance and ease the way for a peace between Syria and Israel that just a short time ago seemed impossible. I'll talk about all this with my first guest, the Syrian ambassador to the United States, Imad Moustapha. Also on the show today, a terrific panel: Felix Rohatyn, the man who saved New York City in the 1970s; China scholar Joshua Ramo; and John Micklethwait, the editor of "The Economist." And top-selling author, Malcolm Gladwell on what role talent plays in success.</s>MALCOLM GLADWELL: So, does Shakespeare have some thing in him, separate from the desire to write poetry and plays, that explains his genius?</s>ZAKARIA: Stay with us.</s>ZAKARIA: So, joining me now from Washington is Syria's ambassador to the United States, Imad Moustapha. Welcome, Ambassador.</s>IMAD MOUSTAPHA, SYRIAN AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED STATES: Hello.</s>ZAKARIA: Ambassador, let me start by asking you a basic question. How did Syrians react to the election of Barack Obama?</s>MOUSTAPHA: I would say, just like the rest of the world reacted. We thought that America has vindicated herself by electing Obama after eight terrible years with the Bush administration. The ordinary, simple man from Syria was overjoyed. The message was very powerful. You have to remember, it's not only anyone-but-Bush, but also, it is who is Barack Obama. The symbolism of his election has created a very strong impact across the whole world. And I can claim also that in Syria as well.</s>ZAKARIA: And for his first interview, given to an Arab network, Al Arabiya, his speech in Turkey where he said the United States is not and will never be at war with Islam, he pointed out he has Muslim members of his family. Has this all been reported in Syria? How do Syrians react to this?</s>MOUSTAPHA: In general, of course, it has been reported across the Arab and Islamic world. It has been strongly emphasized everywhere, including in Syria. However, because of Syria, the major emphasis was on the sentence in which he said that he wants to support the peace process between Syria and Israel. This made major news headlines in Syria as compared to the Bush administration that used to oppose peace talks between Syria and Israel. For us in Syria, I think this was a very important message.</s>ZAKARIA: Your foreign minister very recently said in an interview that your concern was a withdrawal from Golan. If that's the case, and if Bibi Netanyahu is willing to pursue that policy, do you believe that there will be fruitful talks between Syria and Israel?</s>MOUSTAPHA: Yes. It's a very concrete possibility. Let us compartmentalize and remember, there is the Syrian-Israeli peace track, and there is peace in the region. Israel wants a peace agreement with Syria based on the fair principle of land for peace, ending this occupation of the Syrian Golan and making peace with Syria in return. This is fine.</s>ZAKARIA: And how do you envision this peace? President Assad in an interview recently said it would be a cold peace, because it would not involve the Palestinian issue. So there would be a return of the Golan, and then Syria would make peace with Israel in the way that Egypt and Jordan has, formally, and there would be a diplomatic exchange?</s>MOUSTAPHA: Basically, fundamentally, there will be a peace agreement between both countries. Now, the details will -- of course, naturally will be negotiated. But you have alluded to the Israeli peace agreement with Jordan and with Egypt. If this is what Israel wants, this can be done. But this is not really the issue. The issue is, shouldn't we at one point arrive to a point in which peace prevails in the Middle East, suffering ends, human dignity is restored to the Palestinian nation?</s>ZAKARIA: It strikes me as hopeful that you believe that a peace of sorts could be instituted between Israel and Syria despite the recent Israeli election, despite the fact that the foreign minister of Israel is Avigdor Lieberman. You believe that you can do business with any Israeli government?</s>MOUSTAPHA: Personally, I believe that it's better to deal with someone like Lieberman than to deal with someone like Livni. At least Lieberman is candid. He exactly says what he believes in. Tzipi Livni and her colleagues were, as I said, talking all the time about their desire to make peace while committing the atrocity in Gaza or doing other things similar in the rest of the Palestinian territories.</s>ZAKARIA: So, the place where things stand now is, you're ready to do something. You say you want some kind of active American engagement, and then you might even have direct negotiations. What specifically do you want from Washington now?</s>MOUSTAPHA: We believe that the United States of America has a moral obligation to sponsor peace talks between the Arabs and the Israelis. It's because of the American support for Israel -- military, diplomatic, financial, political -- that Israel has been able to sustain her policies of occupation. This is why the United States has a moral duty to play a vigorous, creative role in brokering peace between the Arabs and the Israelis. We believe that enough is enough. The moment the United States will come in vigorously and tell the Israelis, while we are absolutely committed to your security, we believe that what you are doing is detriment even to your own security on the long term, and your occupation should come to an end. We think that Israel will be very, very careful not to say "no" to the U.S. administration and the U.S. president. This is what we want for America to do. Come and honestly broker peace talks between the Arabs and the Israelis...</s>ZAKARIA: So, if the United...</s>MOUSTAPHA: ... in a serious way.</s>ZAKARIA: So, what you're saying specifically is, if the United States were to call a peace conference between Syria and Israel next week, you would be willing to attend, and you would be willing to initiate land for peace, if Israel gave back the Golan in the course of those negotiations?</s>MOUSTAPHA: Because you are asking me a hypothetical question about what might happen next week, I will tell you, let me first consult with my government. Most possibly they will tell me, yes, we will attend.</s>ZAKARIA: And let me ask you finally, the basic message I'm hearing is that you are more optimistic that there may be a deal with Israel than perhaps you've been in a long time. Is that fair?</s>MOUSTAPHA: It might be fair, because of what we have here today. This is a historical moment in the United States of America. Here is a president that has said in a very, very vigorous way that the United States is committed to making peace in the region. And then, look who did he select for a special envoy to our region? A person known for his integrity, fairness and his capability to deliver. So, yes, I can say that we are a little bit more on the optimistic side right now. But we also need to be very careful and realistic. Senator Mitchell will not be as free to address the Arab-Israeli conflict as he used to be when he was addressing the Irish crisis, because, of course, of the omnipotent power of the pro-Israeli special interest groups here in Washington,</s>D.C. ZAKARIA: All right. I will take that small optimism then. And thank you very much, Ambassador.</s>MOUSTAPHA: You are welcome.</s>ZAKARIA: And we will be back.</s>JOSHUA COOPER RAMO: What we're facing is not a financial crisis, it's an existential crisis. It's the fact that the world has now reached a level of complexity that our extant institutions simply can't manage.