Brand New Explosive Court Documents Released; Cheating Hubby Kills Family, Goes On TV.
CASAREZ: Welcome back. Kirk Nurmi, as the lead defense attorney for Jodi Arias, and we got 20 seconds, what is the advice that you have at this point for Watts defense team?</s>NURMI: I would say that they should focus on the trial in the courtroom, not in the court of public opinion. And they should do everything they can to find moments of is serenity in their lives as this goes forward because the stress can, in fact, kill you.</s>JEAN CASAREZ, HLN, HOST: That`s really good advice. All right. Thank you so much to all of our guests. The next hour of Crime and Justice starts right now.</s>ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CRIME AND JUSTICE, HOST: His story is, they died at the hands of their mother, and that had to be after 2:00 a.m. Monday.</s>JOSEPH SCOTT MORGAN, FORENSIC PROFESSOR, JACKSONVILLE STATE UNIVERSITY: Within the stomach itself, that moment is frozen in time. Time is of the essence here.</s>BANFIELD: Tonight, big new possibilities in the case of the Colorado family man.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He`s a cheater.</s>BANFIELD: Accused of murdering his pregnant wife and daughters.</s>CHRIS WATT, ACCUSED OF KILLING WIFE, CHILDREN: We had an emotional conversation, but I`ll leave it at that.</s>BANFIELD: Is there evidence their deaths were premeditated? Computers and phones and bedding and evidence tying watts to both crime scenes.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The bed sheet matched a set found in Chris Watts` kitchen trash can.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What`s the origin of these hairs in the truck?</s>BANFIELD: And was there a different plan for getting rid of the bodies.</s>PAT LALAMA, CRIME JOURNALIST: This is a man who may have severe emotional issues and he wanted to be completely unencumbered and that would take some planning.</s>CASAREZ: Good evening. I`m Jean Casarez in for Ashleigh Banfield. Thank you so much for joining us. This is Crime and Justice. It`s the case of Chris Watts. And it`s coming down to he said, she said or rather, he said, they said with Chris saying his wife killed both their daughters. And the police saying Chris killed all three of them. Police say he dumped their bodies at his worksite, before telling everyone his family was simply missing.</s>WATTS: She wasn`t here, the kids weren`t here, nobody was here. No, I wasn`t going to kiss them to bed tonight. It was -- that`s why I left and it was just horrible.</s>CASAREZ: But now, the details from both crime scenes are starting to emerge, and according to explosive reporting from People Magazine there might just be evidence that Chris killed his little girls as well as his wife Shanann, and had it all planned out in advance. My panelist with me, but I do want to start with crime journalist Pat Lalama. Pat, we have just gotten some brand new documents from the court. And we don`t get them very often.</s>LALAMA: I know.</s>CASAREZ: They are riveting in nature, in the fact that number one, the defense is asking that the prosecutors office launch an investigation into what they say are leaks from the prosecutor`s office. So we`re saying leaks. What are the leaks? Well People Magazine has just come out with riveting reporting.</s>LALAMA: Right.</s>CASAREZ: And sources they say are close to the case.</s>LALAMA: Right.</s>CASAREZ: What is People Magazine saying that it looks like the defense is something such an issue with?</s>LALAMA: Well there`s a lot of evidentiary information as you know the story about hundreds of hairs being found inside Chris Watts` truck which is going to be significant one way or the other. Talking about we believe more and more that this was premeditated. But here`s the thing Jean, if I just got the documents too, and I was zipping through them, about 30 seconds before air time. I`m gleaning from that that the leaks look more -- at least from the prosecutor`s perspective. The leaks are not from them, if there are leaks, they acknowledge that -- somebody`s acknowledging they could come from the police department which begs the question, then who the heck is going to pay for any investigation. And I think that`s where they`re at a log jam right now, where are the leaks coming from, and who`s responsible for finding that out?</s>CASAREZ: And the prosecutors say that in the response, saying, who`s going to pay for all this?</s>LALAMA: Yes.</s>CASAREZ: But what people magazines says Pat Lalama and you can go into this is that there is evidence that in was me meditation</s>LALAMA: Right.</s>CASAREZ: For the deaths or murders of these three people.</s>LALAMA: Well, you know, that`s rather and you know this being a lawyer Jean. It`s a vague statement. I mean what are the specifics? He told someone a week before? Hey, I`m getting rid of my family or is there some evidence on a computer. Is there evidence in a text message? Because shockingly, he didn`t, according to these leaks in People Magazine, didn`t delete anything. So I think it`s safe to say the police know a lot of things we don`t know that D.A. and prosecutors or prosecutors or defense know things we don`t know that is leading in that -- making them line in that direction.</s>CASAREZ: Tom Verni, you are a former NYPD Detective Law Enforcement Consultant. And there`s a lot of information here that if you put this together, paves a story. First of all, he is charged right now, with first degree murder not second degree, not manslaughter. But first degree murder which includes that premeditated murder.</s>TOM VERNI, FORMER NYPD DETECTIVE LAW ENFORCEMENT: Right.</s>CASAREZ: And the source that is cited in the People Magazine article saying that there has been so much evidence collected to date, including computers, all electronic devices, and that text messages and searches were not deleted. What does that tell you?</s>TOM VERNI, NYPD DETECTIVE LAW ENFORCEMENT CONSULTANT: Yes. Well, either that he was very sloppy in what he was doing. You know and it`s great that they have so much overwhelming evidence because you know here you have someone who -- just this whole case is just disgusting to me. It`s -- I feel so awful for the family, and my condolences to the family. I mean these pour young children and his lovely wife. I mean here we have a troubled individual that saying that he`s snapped. I mean, clearly he snapped, but he clearly took steps to go about this in a very methodical manner, based on what we know already. And all the facts and evidence haven`t even come out yet. But based on what we know, he killed them and brought them to a different location to hide them. So Jean, that in upon itself is digging himself even deeper in this hole.</s>CASAREZ: Right. And prosecutors will mostly likely say he didn`t snap. He was methodical. He premeditated this.</s>VERNI: Right.</s>CASAREZ: And when you think about computer searches and you think about Casey Anthony comes to mind.</s>VERNI: Right, right. Exactly. Yes.</s>CASAREZ: And was searches for chloroform, right? That were found at very high levels found in that car. I mean the searches, can they show police which goes to prosecutor`s premeditation?</s>VERNI: Well yes, anything he did, whether again the previous discussion you`re talking about whether it was text messages of some sort, whether he did the online search on you know how to kill somebody and what to buy, you know, when you`re killing somebody. If he went to home depot and brought you know tape and duck tape and straps and shovel and lime. Yes, I mean, there`s a lot of different pieces of this puzzle that are being put together by investigators already. And I don`t -- I don`t think they`re at the bottom of the facts and evidence. That`s on top of all the forensic evidence think have on him you know, in regards to this case.</s>CASAREZ: Eric Johnson, Defense Attorney joining us tonight. I want to ask you. This is a novel move by the defense to call for and asked for an investigation into where the leaks are because virtually, there haven`t leaks. I mean there`s was so much information we don`t know. But this is the first window through that People Magazine article to show that they may have evidence of that premeditation of three separate murders. How much success will they have in asking for an investigation of where the leaks are?</s>ERIC JOHNSON DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well I think it`s going to be very important in this matter because if exactly what we`re talking about here. We have a situation where they`re saying there`s premeditation, however, they`re based on entirely assumptions. We don`t know what is in his e-mails. We don`t know what is in his texts. And it could be situation that those things may evidence his infidelity, which is the state has been trying to use as a reason that he will commit these crimes. However, that is something else. And that does not dispute his allegation that he may have snapped. So by this information getting out, that does in some way possibly contaminate the jury in them thinking that this was premeditation. And this -- and to go against his possibility of his business as being something where there`s was a heat of passion.</s>CASAREZ: You know Chris one of the bigger challenges potentially for this department in the short term are all of the interviews he did. He did three different media interviews. And he really painted his defense. It puts him in a corner because he has said what the defense is going to be. That was actually in the affidavit. But in the interviews that he did we want to show everyone, this is from K.U.S.A. And we haven`t heard this before, this is brand new that he said to an affiliate in the Denver area. But he said, in regard to the backyard. He said, were all the doors around the house locked? That`s the reporter. Well he says, well, the front doors were locked. Watt says the garage door was unlocked. But that`s normal, for when she comes into the house and she leaves it unlocked. But the back door, sliding door, well that was locked as well, so then the reporter says, well, how would she have left the house? Because remember, Watts said she was gone. She was missing so this right -- very near beginning. How would she have left the house if she did leave the house? Then Watts says and try to keep with this. I don`t want to put anything out there, like suspecting if somebody pulled her in the back because we have a driveway back there from the new town homes but it`s so hard to tell. There`re no cameras in the backyard or anything like that so it`s really hard to suspect anything right now as far as how she could have left or if someone came and picked her up or someone took her. What? That is the affiliate K.U.S.A. It is not an affiliate. It is K.U.S.A. television. But we are reading that. They are allowing us to do that. I want to ask you right here Tom. I mean he went into all of this, is he trying to paint an abduction at that point?</s>VERNI: It sure sounds like it. I mean but again everything that has come out since then is kind of -- everything comes back to him. It`s actually the fact that he said that he did.</s>CASAREZ: Yes .</s>VERNI: So, you know, just at face value, we`re talking about a guy that admitted that he killed his wife. So it`s just -- everything so far circumstantial evidence and even the forensic evidence is coming back to him. There`s no one else that would be involved in this, as far as we can tell. And there`s no reason anyone else would be involved in this, other than him.</s>CASAREZ: Right, so let`s listen to his own voice right now, all right? He talks about, if somebody has her, and this is an interview he did with a local affiliate.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You think she just took off?</s>WATTS: I mean right now, I don`t even want to throw anything out there like I hope she`s somewhere safe right now and with the kids. But I mean could she have just taken off? I don`t know, but if somebody has her and they`re not safe like I want them back now if they are safe, they`re coming back. But if they`re not, this has got to stop like somebody has to come forward.</s>CASAREZ: All right, Eric Johnson, as a defense attorney, this is very difficult when there`s something come into the courtroom during trial because it is a statement against his interest when it comes out that he said they didn`t go anywhere. No one abduct her. She didn`t got missing. But he snapped after she saw that she was killing the children.</s>JOHNSON: Yes, well, if you look at it. I mean you have two separate things that you have to look at, the commission of the mentioned crime of murder, and the action that he took to cover it up. So, therefore, because there was a crime committed, the fact that he may have taken some acts to cover it up does not oppose to the question of whether or not this is first degree murder as he`s going to be charged or second degree murder as he is claiming, based on his assertion that he snapped. So the fact is we do know that she is dead. And that he may -- it`s easy for the state to tie into the fact that he may be involved with the cover-up. And the cover-up itself shows and possibly disapproves the premeditation for multiple factors, his statement and the fact that he does not have what is perceived to be rehearsed answer to the cops. He`s speculating. He`s throwing things out there. He`s very unsure of himself. Also, the fact that her personal information we`re recovered. If this was premeditated information he would have done something with her purse. He would have done something with her credit cards. He would have done something with her telephone. And also, the fact that this was done at his job would be the first place they would look, shows that there was not a high deal of planning. Its shows that the mother was found simply buried and the kids because they were small were found in an oil drum. So that is something he conveniently disposed of in a location that he thought the people would not reach. It does not show a high degree of premeditation, and does not disprove his position.</s>CASAREZ: All right. Well I know we have to separate out the alleged murder from the covering up and the tampering with a corpse. But Pat Lalama, your thoughts?</s>LALAMA: OK. Well your guest makes great points. And there`s no doubt that, you know, going back to the police issue leaking can prejudice the defendant the right to due process. But and it`s not up to me to convict this guy. But everything he says when he opens his mouth is painting himself. You talk about painting a kidnapping. I say he`s painting himself into a corner. He`s not that bright, sir. He`s not that bright. He thinks he`s bright. He`s one of those guys who says, I can talk my way out of this. You know I`m good looking. I`m this family man. He thinks. He`s like Scott Peterson. He`s like Drew Peterson. And he`s like Casey Anthony. He thinks he`s got that thing that he can ramble on and make some sense. And he`s not that bright and I would venture to guess that maybe he`s a little off his rocker.</s>JOHNSON: Well then it`s also safe to say by your claim of him having lack of higher intelligence that would also disprove the premeditation in this point. If you have somebody --</s>LALAMA: Not necessarily. Dumb people premeditate all the time. Sorry. I mean I don`t think it takes intelligence and in fact, most idiots get caught when they premeditate, you know, a murder. But it just -- it doesn`t make sense to me oh, I just snapped. Here`s a man with a history of financial problems. He is a cheater. He allegedly has some sort of sexual identity issues. I mean I`m not a psychologist. But I think were going to find it. This man as I said before and I`ll say it until the cows come home did not -- he wanted to be unincumbered. He didn`t want any responsibilities and like Scott Peterson in my mind decided I`m going to throw the baby -- well that`s a bad pun. I`m going to get rid of them all so I don`t have to think about it.</s>CASAREZ: But he did do three interviews. He was searching for his wife.</s>LALAMA: Yes, because he`s stupid.</s>CASAREZ: He said that with a straight face.</s>LALAMA: He`s stupid.</s>CASAREZ: And the fact is, like 24 hours after this interview, he`s going to confess that they didn`t go anywhere. That they were all in the house and yes he gives a story that may or not be true. We don`t know. He`s got the presumption of innocence at this point. There will be a defense.</s>LALAMA: True.</s>CASAREZ: But the fact is, once the trial gets going, all of this can be played for the jury, and it shows someone isn`t telling the truth right there.</s>LALAMA: Exactly my point.</s>CASAREZ: In all of those interviews.</s>JOHNSON: But in every -- but every crime, you have very few immediate confessions. So therefore, the fact that there was an attempted cover- up, the fact that there was a lie that was told is normally regular behavior in these circumstances. Nobody really confesses at the first time so therefore --</s>LALAMA: My friend, my friend me, excuse me. My wife was killing the babies. I saw it in the monitor. That like he`s thinking far ahead and that`s a figure OK, I`m not going to get away with OK she just disappeared. So OK let me think. Oh yes, I saw my children being killed, that`s a good one. I mean he`s no rocket scientist, OK?</s>CASAREZ: Right, we`re going to continue this after the break, what Pat was saying, he was very detailed in what he told police on that Wednesday 24 hours after those interviews right there. All right after the break, Chris Watts has only made one court appearance so far. But what will it be like to try and defend him. And what are the challenges for his attorneys in such a high profile case. Believe it or not, we have an attorney with us tonight. Kurt Nurmi. You know him. Jodi Arias` lead defense attorney about what Chris Watts` defense team can expect. That`s next.