Interview With Florida Congresswoman Ileana Ros-Lehtinen; Crisis in Ukraine; U.S. to Step Up Presence in Poland
JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: As tensions ratchet up in the Ukraine, the U.S. and Russia are now deploying a tactic they had not yet attempted, actually talking to each other face-to-face. I'm Jake Tapper. This is THE LEAD. The world lead, America's top diplomat, John Kerry, meeting with his Russian counterpart for the first time face-to-face since Russian boots hit the ground in Ukrainian territory. One way or another, this could be a turning point in the international standoff over Ukraine. The politics lead. Stop me now if this sounds familiar. The White House condemns the Russians after they invade a sovereign nation. But I'm not talking about Ukraine. I'm talking about the Russians invading the country of Georgia back in 2008. Is President Obama's response really all that different from George W. Bush's back then? How about the response of the pundits? Also in politics, argue about a deeply divisive issue long enough and sooner or later someone brings up the Nazis. It's Godwin's Law. Hillary Clinton wading into the Ukraine crisis by comparing Putin to Adolf Hitler. Did she go too far? Good afternoon, everyone. I'm Jake Tapper. Welcome to THE LEAD. We're going to begin with the world lead, of course. For days now, every time that red phone rang, the Russians have seemingly been checking their caller I.D. and saying it's the Americans again, let it go to voice-mail, literally, lots of unreturned phone calls between U.S. and Russian dips. But that all changed a short time ago, with the highest-level diplomatic talks we have witnessed yet since this crisis in Ukraine began, Secretary of State John Kerry meeting with his counterpart, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov, in Paris this afternoon. From the way Kerry later described it, the main weapon the U.S. is using against the Russians is shame.</s>JOHN KERRY, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: Russia's violation of Ukraine's sovereignty and territorial integrity has actually united the world in support of the Ukrainian people. Russia can now choose to de-escalate this situation. And we are committed to working with Russia, together with our friends and allies, in an effort to provide a way for this entire situation to find a road to de-escalation.</s>TAPPER: Kerry said that all sides have agreed that a dialogue is the best way to move forward. The U.S. wants to get Russia to the table to talk with Ukraine's interim government, which Russia doesn't recognize. But that did not happen today. Russia maintains that Ukraine's ousted president is the country's true leader. Before meeting with Kerry, Foreign Minister Lavrov repeated the assertion that Russian President Vladimir Putin made yesterday, that the troops in Ukraine's Crimean Peninsula are not actually Russians at all, but instead members of local self-defense groups. That came as a surprise to many people with eyes and/or ears, because they sure look like Russian troops firing warning shots at hundreds of Ukrainian soldiers attempting to reenter an air base on Crimea that the Russians have seized. So far, this is the only known instance of shots fired between the two groups, but there are forces such as these in the streets of Crimea's regional capital patrolling with no identification. Today, the administration said that the U.S. cannot yet prove that these forces are Russian.</s>CHUCK HAGEL, U.S. DEFENSE SECRETARY: It's pretty clear that they're Russian troops.</s>SEN. ROGER WICKER (R), MISSISSIPPI: I think it's clear, but, General Dempsey, what evidence do we have?</s>GEN. MARTIN DEMPSEY, JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF CHAIRMAN: We don't have any evidence as yet. I think evidence could likely become available over time.</s>TAPPER: Just as an FYI to General Dempsey and Secretary Hagel, several of those troops have told reporters that they are Russian. Meanwhile, NATO is cutting back its ties with Russia, suspending its first joint mission to escort a U.S. ship as part of efforts to disarm Syria. And NATO says you can forget about any more meetings with the Russians, at least for now. The crucial meeting between Kerry and Lavrov took place around the same time the Robert Serry, U.N. envoy to Ukraine, was forced to end his mission in Crimea at gunpoint. Armed men threatened him, according to the U.N., forced him to hole up in a coffee shop. A reporter from ITV was in that shop and tweeted out this photograph shortly before police escorted Serry to the airport. Let's get to our own Anna Coren, standing by live in Crimea. Anna, give us more details about what happened with this envoy.</s>ANNA COREN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake, we don't know exactly what triggered this confrontation, but we understand that Robert Serry's car was surrounded by at least 15 men, some of them armed. They told him he had to go straight to the airport. He refused. These local militia then tried to get into his car. He managed to somehow get out. He fled into a coffee shop. He was there with an ITV reporter, I should say, James Mates, who was tweeting what was going on. These men continued to surround the building. After some time, he decided, as to alleviate pressure, to leave the situation, basically to quit his post as U.N. special envoy to Ukraine and depart the country. So he is en route to Istanbul as we speak. He believes that this will help de-escalate the situation. But, Jake, it just goes to show how tense the situation is and how unpredictable the situation is here in Crimea.</s>TAPPER: Anna Coren, thank you so much. Please stay safe. The House Foreign Affairs Committee is holding a hearing tomorrow on Ukraine and could vote soon after a resolution for sanctions against Russia, although that resolution is more a symbolic gesture. It's nonbinding. The entire House could also vote on the $1 billion in loan guarantees to Ukraine that Secretary of State John Kerry announced earlier this week. Joining me now to discuss this all is a member of the Foreign Affairs Committee in the House, Republican Congresswoman Ileana Ros-Lehtinen of Florida. Congresswoman, good to see you.</s>REP. ILEANA ROS-LEHTINEN (R), FLORIDA: Thank you, Jake.</s>TAPPER: We heard from Secretary of State John Kerry. He said he'd rather be in the position they're in today than where they were yesterday. Are you seeing progress in some sort of resolution? Because I have to admit it's escaping me.</s>ROS-LEHTINEN: Well, it depends on what your definition of progress is, because if we're going to just talk the talk and not walk the walk, then that's not progress at all. We have got to dial back the rhetoric, unless this administration is really going to follow through on its bluster. One of the things that I think that we should do, we must do is add names to the Magnitsky list. This is a bill that we passed and became law last year named after one of the anti-corruption activists who was beaten to death in a Russian jail for exposing corruption. And it names and shames those human rights violators in Russia. It freezes their assets, and it will fine any companies that do business with human rights violators. We can adapt this to the situation that Russia is taking in Ukraine, especially in Crimea, to say that these armed thugs are not part of the Russian army. It doesn't even pass the smile test. Local defense forces, they are part of the Russian army. If they're unified with violators, which it looks like they are, they should be placed on this Magnitsky list. We should be talking about possibly freezing their assets, blocking their property, making sure that they can't enter the United States. There's a lot more that we can do before we talk about aggressive action or any military action.</s>TAPPER: Right. Congresswoman, Russia today threatened to seize the assets of any company belonging to -- from a country that is imposing sanctions on them. Are you at all concerned that the retaliatory efforts by Russia would hurt businesses in the U.S., businesses in Europe?</s>ROS-LEHTINEN: Well, the truth is that these U.S. businesses are not the ones that are human rights violators. What we would be doing in the United States is hurting the human rights violators and those who do business with them. I think that kind of aggressive act by Putin against U.S. businesses that are not related to this crisis in Ukraine, that is purely a punitive action not related to the situation at hand. So I think that Putin is putting us to the test. Are we going to back up our words with actions or is this going to be a situation like Syria where the president said, this is a red line, the use of chemical arms will -- weapons will not be tolerated, we will do limited airstrikes and then he pulled back on that? What are we doing with Russia? Are we threatening with a lot of action that then we won't fulfill? And we have now Putin taking us up on our words and saying, well, we will declare these prohibitions on U.S. businesses. But that is not what the U.S. is saying. We're talking about true human rights violators. He's talking about just retaliating against U.S. businesses that have nothing to do with Ukraine.</s>TAPPER: Congresswoman, in retrospect, was it a mistake for the U.S. to have not done more after Russia invaded Georgia in 2008? As you know, there was a lot of talk, but, ultimately, Russia stayed in those two breakaway republics. Ultimately, Russia stayed and kept that territory. In retrospect, was it a mistake for the U.S. to have basically gone back to the situation as it was before the invasion?</s>ROS-LEHTINEN: I think, standing now where we are and looking back on that situation, yes, we should have done more, just like we had situations in Iran when the dissidents were standing up and we turned the other way, just like in Syria when the opposition was clear that they were the good guys, that we should have helped out more. But it's hindsight. At the moment, you don't know when you're pushing too hard and when you're escalating, rather than toning down the rhetoric and trying to get a diplomatic accord. But Putin has really put us to the test. Let's see what this administration is willing to do. But I hope that we don't talk a big game and then just play small ball.</s>TAPPER: Congresswoman Ileana Ros-Lehtinen, thank you so much.</s>ROS-LEHTINEN: Thank you, Jake.</s>TAPPER: We appreciate it. Coming up on</s>THE LEAD: She made headlines last night when she compared Vladimir Putin to Adolf Hitler. So, what is Hillary Clinton saying today? Well, she will speaking live now, and we will have that next. Plus, as John Kerry tries to convince allies in Europe to go along with the plan for sanctions, does the U.S. risk isolating itself? I will ask the State Department spokeswoman coming up.