Ex-Manafort Deputy Rick Gates Could Testify as Early as Today
HILL: As we near the end of week one of the bank fraud and tax evasion trial of President Trump's former campaign chairman Paul Manafort, today could be the day jurors hear from the government's star witness, that's Paul Manafort's longtime business partner, former co-defendant Rick Gates. After laying out some eye-popping evidence to paint this lavish, luxurious lifestyle that Paul Manafort led, including everything he bought with the millions that he allegedly hid from the IRS, prosecutors turned yesterday to the fraud he allegedly committed to get loans when his lobbying business tanked. And that's where testimony resumed this morning. It brings me to our expert next, CNN legal analyst, former federal prosecutor, Shan Wu. Shan, good to have you with us here. So interesting to see as we saw this shift, the judge we know in the beginning was not loving all the details about the lavish lifestyle. Now that we're really getting into the nuts and bolts of the bookkeeping, what was there, what wasn't there, folks saying that there was definitely a shift in the judge and how he is even dealing with this. What does that tell you?</s>SHAN WU, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: That tells me that Judge Ellis is very concerned about keeping the trial on focus. I think he sensibly pointed out that too much focus on very ostentatious lavish lifestyles, I think his comment was it could engender resentment with the jury. And he wants to protect the verdict. If there is a conviction there'll be an appeal, he wants to make sure that the record is a good one. Now as they move more into the document evidence, really the meat of the case, I think he is more pleased on this going in that direction.</s>HILL: There's a lot of anticipation, obviously, for Rick Gates, what he will say when he takes the stand. We have a sense, obviously, of what the prosecution wants to get out of him. But it will be fascinating to see what the defense does with Rick Gates there on the stand.</s>WU: Absolutely. He's critical to both sides. Anything I'm talking about of course is not based on attorney-client privilege information. I represented Rick briefly. And he is going to either be devastating for one side or the other. I think it's a been a very bold move by the defense to really put all their eggs in one basket. They're pinning everything on him. It's very clever really because the prosecution needs to rely on him as being at the center of everything. So by attacking the center, they're able to really attack all aspects of the case without having to necessarily get bogged down in individual details. It also offers them a further defense, very typically used against immunized witnesses. They're going to be attacking them, but they can also attack Rick through his guilty plea saying, you know, you got a good deal, you'll say anything that the prosecution wants you to say.</s>HILL: Although to your point, that's something that we would often hear. I mean, that's not new to hear that from the defense.</s>WU: Absolutely. And --</s>HILL: No matter the trial, right? I mean, no matter the charges, really.</s>WU: That's right. That's exactly right. But what's a little bit unusual is they have so many immunized witnesses in this case. So it does give the defense a little bit more of a hook and leverage to use against the prosecution for that reason. And, you know, Rick's a very smart man. I know him a little bit. I think he will do well on the stand. And I don't it's revealing any confidences when I say about his personal style he's not prone towards the ostrich leather.</s>HILL: Well --</s>HILL: Nor many of us but, you know, I guess there's a certain market for it and there you have it. As we look at this, as we're all waiting to see what happens obviously today, there are a couple of other headlines that I just want to get your take on here. Former Trump campaign manager Corey Lewandowski telling CNN, President Trump actually hasn't asked him, but that if he did he would tell him he should not sit down for that interview with Robert Mueller. Surprising to you?</s>WU: Not surprising. I think any lawyer, any staffer, any handler for the president who knows him is going to be very leery of him sitting down. I mean, one is always cautious with a client sitting down for an interview with prosecutors and FBI agents. But President Trump has shown such an inability to stay on message or stay disciplined that if I were his lawyer, I would absolutely be petrified of that.</s>HILL: Right. And we know we've heard that, right? We've heard from his legal team in the past. They don't want him sitting down. The president has at least been making the case or sources have been making the case for the president that he really wants to. Is there a chance, too, that that could also be part of the legal strategy, even just putting that out there in the ether? The president really wants to sit down but nobody will let him because that could help him in the court of public opinion.</s>WU: Absolutely. I think that part of Giuliani's public relations strategy has been working well. I mean, they seem very much geared towards heading off a possible impeachment type of trial. And I think by putting this out there, they reserve the right to say if, let's say, Mueller does not get to interview him, puts out a report, they can say gosh, you know, we wanted to talk, but they were just unreasonable about it. So we never heard our side of the story.</s>HILL: We will be watching and waiting with baited breath. Always appreciate it. Thank you.</s>WU: Good to see you, Erica.</s>HILL: The Trump administration says immigrant advocates like the ACLU, well, they should really find the hundreds of parents who were deported after they were separated from their children. Justice Department lawyers said the government would turn over whatever information it could on the parents who were deported. CNN's Dianne Gallagher joining us now with more on this. So what's the ACLU's reaction to all of this?</s>DIANNE GALLAGHER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You can imagine, Erica, this once again sounds like the government asking someone else to clean up the mess that it made. A lot of this comes from court filings that came through this week where essentially, they were working through how to locate these -- the parents of these children who have already been deported while the children remain in custody because they were separated from their parents under the zero tolerance policy. Now, look, the ACLU has said, we are eager to help with this. We want to reunite these families. But maintains that the onus should be on the U.S. government because the U.S. government is the one who separated them. And they have more resources. I want to read a quote from ACLU attorneys here. They said, "Not only was it the government's unconstitutional separation practice that led to this crisis but the United States government has far more resources than any group of NGOs." Now in this court filing the government actually proposed that they meet every Monday with the ACLU and they can then turn over information to them about parents, about children, what research and abilities they've done to track them down. But, Erica, the ACLU said that in certain instances, 12 of the parents that they tracked down in their home countries, they had already been contacted by the U.S. government. That once again, as we have seen from the start of this saga here, the government is not communicating with these NGOs and at the same time asking for their assistance. In all of these reunification efforts when we have been down at the border, down in these communities when they do this, Erica, we have watched these NGOs and these volunteer organizations kind of pick up the slack and take the lead when the government appears in many cases to be doing the bare minimum. Now according to testimony, there are still more than 500 kids who remain in custody, at least 400 of them, according to court supplemental filings, they have parents who are outside of this country. So there is a lot of work still to be done. And Erica, according to the ACLU, the government has resisted giving them entire case files. So it makes it even more difficult to work with them on this. Again, they're saying that there is red tape and that there is a lack of communication which is making this even more difficult as deadlines start to come closer and pile up.</s>HILL: Right. Yes, but don't worry, they're going to meet every month -- I mean, every week, rather, and they'll get an update so I'm sure it will all get worked out. It is remarkable once again. Dianne, appreciate the reporting. Thank you. Still ahead this hour, the president steps up his attacks on what he now calls fake, disgusting news while repeating claims that have no apparent basis in fact.