President Obama: Fight Against ISIS Is Long Term.
BALDWIN: Just one day now after President Obama emerged from a Pentagon meeting and once again described the fight against ISIS is quote/unquote "long term." We're getting a sense of what long term means in sheer numbers. Out of Capitol Hill here and defense secretary Ash Carter today revealed that thus far U.S. troops have been able to train 60 Syrian fighters to take on ISIS.</s>ASHTON CARTER, U.S. DEFENSE SECRETARY: This number is much smaller than we had hoped for at this point. Partly because of the vetting standards I just described. But we know this program is essential. We need a partner on the ground in Syria to assure it is ISIL's lasting defeat.</s>BALDWIN: Let's talk about this number, 60 and beyond, with retired Brigadier General Anthony Tate. General, welcome, as always.</s>BRIG. GEN. ANTHONY TATE, (RET.) U.S. ARMY: Great to be here, Brooke. Thank you.</s>BALDWIN: All right. Let me reiterate this, 60 Syrians trained to take on ISIS. The goal, just for a perspective for people, this program was to train anywhere from 3,000 to 5,000 fighters per year and, again, 6-0 trained.</s>TATE: Right, Brooke. You know, part of the problem is that if you're a Syrian freedom fighter, you really have three options. You can fight Assad in Damascus, You can fight the Kurds in the north or you can fight ISIS in the middle. And in what is not a holistic country to begin with, it's very tribal. It's hard to recruit to begin with. And so I think that's the first hurdle the defense department is facing, is the recruitment process and then, secondly, as you heard Secretary Carter mention, the vetting process.</s>BALDWIN: Yes.</s>TATE: We want to make sure that we're not bringing folks in that have a track record of fighting for the other side. And certainly, this is a tactic that the enemy ISIS or Iran would use to get some sleeper cells in there to either get all the training and then take the weapons and then go fight us knowing our tactics and knowing our strategies. And so, it's really three dimensional chess set we're playing here in Syria. We need Assad pressured because Assad has that strategic link to Iran. Meanwhile, we need ISIS fought in the middle of Syria, they own about 50 percent of Syria, and you know, the Kurds are up in the north doing their own thing established in Kurdistan . So, this whole vetting process is really slowing down the training. And that training, basic training.</s>BALDWIN: General.</s>TATE: Yes.</s>BALDWIN: If I may, just jump in, I want to walk back a half second because you're throwing a lot at me. And I want to follow up on one of your points, you know, talking of, obviously, some of these folks. They have choices. What, if you're the U.S., how do you incentivize these folks to take the U.S. side to fight ISIS?</s>TATE: Well, obviously the best incentive for any military, one is the patriotic fervor that they might feel, and two is being paid. And all the soldiers involve in these wars are being paid whether it's ISIS or the Kurds force or whomever, they have to be paid. And so, that's how you incentivize the troops. And so you attract troops that way, but have you those tribal affiliations and they're looking in three different directions.</s>BALDWIN: OK. Let me just play some sound. This is Senator John McCain talking about -- he's been incredibly critical of the White House strategy on ISIS. As he would say, a lack of strategy. This is what he had to say at this hearing.</s>SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: When it comes to ISIL, President Obama's comments yesterday at the Pentagon, revealed a disturbing degree of self-delusion that characterize the administration's thinking. It is right, but ultimately irrelevant to point out as the president did, that we have conducted thousands of airstrikes, taking out many ISIL fighters and pushed it out of some territory. None of the so-called progress that the president cited suggests that we are on a path to success.</s>BALDWIN: He says not on the path to success, solely points to the air campaign. Do you agree with him?</s>TATE: Well, Brooke, its proven time and time again that an air campaign alone will not lead to victory. You've got to have that ground component that flushes the enemy out. And you have to have clear concerted objectives that will lead you to some end state that results in some kind of political settlement, so that you can have peace. And so airstrikes alone aren't going to do it. And I think that's part of the Syrian effort is to get enough troops on the ground there in Syria to pressure ISIS and Syria so they can't without any kind of pressure just focus on Iraq. And so if we can pressure them in Syria, that will loosen up the defenses in Iraq a little bit and help us push north and reclaim some of the land in Iraq. But, you know, President Obama 18 months ago, said we have no strategy, at least we have a strategy now. And whether that strategy's not moving as quickly as they had hoped and as Secretary Carter said, so ultimately 60 today, who knows how many a year from now. But the average basic trainee goes from 10 weeks of basic training at U.S. army and another up to 10 weeks of advanced in to those training. That's four or five months of training for the average American soldier.</s>BALDWIN: So now, I understand, but you know, we've been at this for a little while. And I think it's striking a lot of people the number 60 as opposed to the goal of 3,000 to 5,000 not quite cutting it yet. General Anthony Tate, thank you so much. We'll be right back.</s>TATE: Thank you, Brooke.