Interview With Utah Senator Mike Lee
BLITZER: Day one of the convention that at least for a few minutes resembled the old-fashioned kind of convention, a rules battle, a demonstration on the floor. Joining us now, Senator Mike Lee of Utah, who was right in the middle of it all. What happened there, because you looked pretty angry when the debate was unfolding?</s>SEN. MIKE LEE (R), UTAH: This was a lost opportunity. It was an opportunity for the party to unite. Unity happens when people with different viewpoints are respected and we're able to discuss our disagreements.</s>BLITZER: What was your goal in seeking that vote?</s>LEE: It's really very simple. We just wanted a roll call vote on the rules.</s>BLITZER: Why? You knew that Trump had the votes in the end, right?</s>LEE: Look, this one isn't about Trump. For some people, it is. It's much bigger than that. It's about our rules. The first order of business in any convention, any convention, at the Republican Convention, as far as I know, in any political convention, is you adopt the rules. There was disagreement going out of the rules committee about the rules package that was adopted. There were a lot of delegates who for various and sundry reasons wanted a roll call on that. That's all we wanted. And they shut that down. It's unfortunate, because we need these people. The people who feel differently about the rules, for whatever reason, are the very same people the Republican Party will need come November to help us win elections, at the top of the ticket, the bottom of the ticket and everywhere in between.</s>BLITZER: Because they said you needed seven states, the majority of the delegates in seven states, in order get the roll -- they said -- you said you had nine. They did some checking and then you had five or six. You didn't meet the requirement.</s>LEE: Yes, we believe we had 11 states that had submitted the requisite number of signatures from their delegates. And then they came back and said three states had withdrawn their petitions. Even if that were true, that would still leave us with eight, more than the threshold of seven that we needed for a roll call vote. I'm not sure what to make of that. But I will say this. This was a lost opportunity. When people have the opportunity to be heard, they are more likely to work for the party, work for the party's nominees for various offices, whether it's president or congressional seat or senatorial seat or something else. And this was a missed opportunity today to have this vote.</s>BLITZER: Now, where do you stand on Donald Trump as the Republican nominee? Will you vote for him?</s>LEE: Look, I'm a lifelong Republican. I have never voted for anyone for president for any party other than the Republican Party. I have yet to endorse Donald Trump. I have expressed concerns about that. I don't want to rehash those now. But this is an opportunity for Donald Trump to win over the party, win over voters like me, conservatives like me, who would like to have their concerns resolved, who would like to be invited into a discussion.</s>BLITZER: Because Paul Manafort, the Trump committee chairman, he said to me there's going to be an opportunity in January of next year for the rules committee to meet looking ahead to 2020. That's what you were really anxious, to change the rules looking ahead, so a conservative would get the nomination, to close the primaries and the caucuses to only registered Republicans and not outsiders. Right?</s>LEE: Sure. Sure. This discussion is about not only this year, but also 2020 and 2024.</s>BLITZER: Was that your real goal, 2020?</s>LEE: Well, we have lots of goals. There's lots of things that we needed to discuss in connection with the rules. The one thing we wanted to know is, where are the delegates on this issue? It's the delegates at the end of the day that get to decide that. We knew that there would be a voice vote. We knew that it would be difficult to discern who had won the voice vote and who hadn't. That's why we asked for simple roll call vote. I have to ask the question, why on earth did the RNC choose to create this toxic environment through four hours of delay and then come back to us after that and say, well, a few of them, after the RNC had lobbied several of these states for several hours, they have now withdrawn their petitions? Why did they have to do that? Why not just allow for the vote? What are they afraid of? At the end of the day, we would be a better, stronger party if we allowed these votes to occur.</s>BLITZER: And so I just want to be precise. Going ahead in 2020, you want the caucuses and the primaries to be closed only to Republicans and not let independents or maybe even Democrats register and vote?</s>LEE: I at least want those states that choose to keep their primaries closed to be recognized for that, to be rewarded, and to have a delegate bonus as a result.</s>BLITZER: And that was one of the purposes?</s>LEE: That was one of the purposes.</s>BLITZER: There was an argument that some had made that you were really doing this for Ted Cruz, looking ahead. You're a Ted Cruz supporter, right?</s>LEE: I am. I am. Ted Cruz withdrew from this race months ago, a long time ago.</s>BLITZER: Donald Trump is going to be your nominee, though, right?</s>LEE: I think he is.</s>BLITZER: You think?</s>LEE: Almost certain that he is. And, look, he will be a stronger nominee...</s>BLITZER: Is there anything you can do even at this last minute to prevent him from being the Republican nominee?</s>LEE: Probably not. Probably not. But, look, he's almost certainly going to be our nominee. And because that's the case, he's going to need to get as many people into his tent as he can. And that means uniting the party. That means helping people to feel like they have been disenfranchised today at this convention, the same people that they will need as part of a grassroots network to get out the vote for him in November, he needs those people in his tent. Let us have a vote. I don't think this is about Donald Trump, though. I don't think Donald Trump did this. I don't blame this on Donald Trump. I blame the RNC.</s>BLITZER: Was this a Reince Priebus...</s>LEE: I don't whether it was Reince himself. But the people who are running this convention made a decision, rather than have a vote, rather than respect the fact that I believe 11 states had submitted the necessary petitions for roll call vote -- let them have a roll call vote.</s>BLITZER: So, are you going to stay here for the next three days?</s>LEE: Yes. Look, I'm here. I'm here as a delegate from Utah. I'm going to stay. I'm going to participate.</s>BLITZER: And when will you decide whether or not you will vote for Donald Trump?</s>LEE: Well, that's up for me as a voter to decide.</s>BLITZER: It's still up for grabs?</s>LEE: Sure.</s>BLITZER: There's no chance you are going to vote for Hillary Clinton?</s>LEE: No, there is not.</s>BLITZER: Is there a chance you could vote for Gary Johnson, a third- party candidate?</s>LEE: Look, I don't know. Right now, I'm a delegate to the Republican National Convention. And it's always my instinct to want to support Republican candidates.</s>BLITZER: One final -- what would it take for you to vote for Donald Trump?</s>LEE: Great question. I would love to see Mr. Trump come out with an aggressive reform agenda, one that focuses on the structural protections in the Constitution. Some of the structural protections, which I discuss in my book "Our Lost constitution," including principles, federalism and separation of powers, the notion that most government decisions are supposed to be made locally, at the state and local level. Instead, they have been taken to Washington. And within Washington, too much of that power has been sucked into the executive branch, where an administrative regulatory system costs the American economy, mostly America's poor and middle class, $2 trillion a year. If he started talking about restoring federalism and separation of powers and about what he would do to do that, I think he'd be very appealing to a whole lot of conservatives like me who have yet to hear that kind of aggressive, consistent messaging from him on a conservative core principle.</s>BLITZER: The Mike Pence selection didn't impact you?</s>LEE: I think Mike Pence is a great choice. I would love to hear more messaging like we hear from Mike Pence out of Donald Trump.</s>BLITZER: Senator Lee, thanks very much for joining us.</s>LEE: Thank you.</s>BLITZER: Just ahead, we will get the latest from Baton Rouge, Louisiana. The police chief there is standing by to join us live. There are new developments. We will be right back.