Osama Bin Laden is Dead; The Long Search for Bin Laden
COOPER: And welcome back. We are live from Ground Zero. The breaking news from just a few moments ago that Wolf Blitzer was reporting that we've confirmed that there is some sort of a tape, what supporters of bin Laden would call a "martyr's tape" that he had taped in advance to be released if and when he was killed. We're not sure whether it's an audiotape or videotape. We'll try to get more details on that. Also, just in to</s>CNN: a U.S. official telling CNN's Pam Benson that the U.S.'s code name for Osama bin Laden was Geronimo. Let's get the latest from the Pentagon. Barbara Starr is standing by at the Pentagon. This -- Osama bin Laden had a code name "Geronimo." How -- what do we know about that?</s>BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, very little, Anderson. That's just coming to light as facts continue to unfold every hour since this all emerged last night. I think what people are watching very carefully, Anderson, is to learn more about how the attack itself unfolded against that compound. What is so extraordinary, really, is the fact that everybody got out safely in terms of the U.S. troops. You know, you'll recall over the years, there was the failed mission in Iran to rescue the hostages. There was the failed mission in Somalia. U.S. Special Forces really revamped how they did business. It's all about training and practice -- practice, practice. They practiced against a mock-up of this compound. This was never about getting into Pakistan. This was about getting out of Pakistan safely once you got your target. And that's what they achieved here. Very few details really coming to light, but this helicopter assault, by all accounts, really went off absolutely flawlessly because everybody did get out. You know, they found Osama bin Laden basically in an upstairs room in this compound. That's when the firefight broke out. And, you know, to put a fine point on it, that's when Geronimo met his fate -- Anderson.</s>COOPER: Barbara, obviously, there are facts that we don't know at this point. But I just want to ask you a bunch of different questions. And if you don't know, just say you don't know. Do we know how many U.S. forces were actually involved in the operation?</s>STARR: Well, you know, if you -- that's a really good point, because if you start counting the team and the backup, it was fairly extensive. We don't know exactly how many, but certainly not insignificant number of Navy SEALs on the ground, several helicopters, helicopters flying overhead as support helicopters, and what we know, of course, is that there were a number of other aircraft overhead at some distance, fixed-wing fighter jets, Predators, drones monitoring the situation, other helicopters to engage in search and rescue. Everybody was ready to move in with significant firepower and force if something had gone wrong. And that's what John Brennan was talking about when he watched that one helicopter go to mechanical failure -- really, I think it's fair to say everybody took a deep breath because they didn't know what was coming next, and they had everything to move in and engage in a very significant military operation with significant force -- pardon me -- to get the team out if they had to, Anderson.</s>COOPER: Do we know how many people were killed inside the compound and was anybody taken alive?</s>STARR: No. No one was taken alive. There were a number of women and children there that were basically taken to a safe area while the U.S. troops were there. And they were left behind. They were deemed to be noncombatants. We know bin Laden is dead. We know a woman said to be his wife is dead. And a couple of other men that engaged in the firefight. That woman was said to be used as a human shield by bin Laden, hiding behind a woman as U.S. forces basically came through the door. And that firefight erupted, Anderson.</s>COOPER: Do we know for a fact that he was using her for a shield or that she was trying to protect him of her own accord? Do we know the details on that?</s>STARR: Well, we -- I'll tell you that we don't. But we do know that U.S. officials have described her as being used as a human shield. So, I think there was probably some indication in this final end game. She really wasn't doing this of her own volition. It may have been a combination of both. One of the women there is said to be bin Laden's wife. So, these are people that he was living with on this very secure compound.</s>COOPER: And just two other very quick questions. Did they take any intelligence, any documents or anything that might be of value? And was the courier who was the end point to this, was that person killed as well?</s>STARR: I think the courier was. I think that's the assessment at this point. But you raised something very significant. They wanted to get in and out very fast, 40 minutes on the ground. But indeed, they gathered a significant amount of intelligence, basically computer material, other material on the -- in that compound and the CIA now is establishing a task force to review all this intelligence material, to see what they have and see if they can find any of the other bin Laden associates, Ayman al-Zawahiri, Mullah Omar, is there anything in all of that that tells them where these other al Qaeda and Taliban leaders are hiding. That's something that they want to move on very quickly, if there are clues in everything that they gathered up.</s>COOPER: All right. Barbara, thanks. We'll continue with that reporter. Let's go to Wolf in Washington -- Wolf.</s>BLITZER: Thanks very much, Anderson. I want to bring in retired U.S. Air Force Lieutenant Colonel Ed O'Connell. He's joining us from Los Angeles. He spent 20 years in the Air Force as an intelligence officer with chief of targeting for the U.S. military central command during the war in Afghanistan, worked for then-General Tommy Franks. This looks like a very, very risky but sophisticated operation. How much rehearsal goes into something like this?</s>LT. COL. EDWARD O'CONNELL, U.S. AIR FORCE (RET.): Oh, extraordinary, Wolf. I think, probably, you're talking about months now. Unlike what we had in Tora Bora where you had a quick reaction situation, this was more of a preplanned situation, where you had target intelligence packages that we call tips, for instance, of showing people what door to turn, what door to go into, what wall to climb. So, quite a bit of operation.</s>BLITZER: Well, talk about Tora Bora. You were there at Tora Bora. That was the last time that U.S. intelligence suspected they were closing in on bin Laden. So many years later, almost 10 years later, now, they finally get him. Why did Tora Bora failed and this particular mission succeed?</s>O'CONNELL: Yes, I think there a lot of differences -- good question. I think there, we had very difficult terrain. Remember, we're at 15,000 feet. So, to move people from Task Force 11, who is the Delta Force, on site there, to another location to sort of chase bin Laden and his over watch people was very difficult. This was quite different terrain. This was more of an urban setting, large compound. There you had a number of sort of rat mines, as we call them, very difficult to track. Also, very difficult to pick up signals intelligence, which is all we really had to track bin Laden. And I think what happened is in Tora Bora, we got into a tangled web of good intentions, you might say. It was CENTCOM, CENTAF, General Franks' folks. We had Task force 11 and who is Delta Force, who took over at some point. You also had CIA members in there. Everyone thought his death was imminent. I think we had a little bit of overconfidence at the time. And then, of course, he slipped away.</s>BLITZER: These U.S. military helicopters, they brought the Special Operations forces, the intelligences operatives from Afghanistan into Pakistan. I assume that's the way they came in because they flew out back to Afghanistan. Would they have U.S. military insignia? Would they be painted like U.S. military helicopters? Would they have something neutral? Or would they pretend to be Pakistani helicopters, based on your experience?</s>O'CONNELL: I think they were probably blacked out. That's what we called it. You'd probably black out the insignia before you went in on the mission and -- or you would have some deception going. But I think that we didn't want to get to tricky here. Let's stick with the playbook. This has been pre-rehearsed. So, it was clear cut in that case.</s>BLITZER: In this particular case, there were two helicopters that were going into the compound. One of them failed. They had to destroy that helicopter. But we're told there was a third helicopter that came in and assisted in getting the U.S. military personnel, the intelligence operatives and bin Laden's body out of there. That was pretty smart to have a backup. They may have had more than just one backup helicopter?</s>O'CONNELL: Absolutely, Wolf. We learned a lot from Desert One which was a failed Iranian hostage mission. Also, we learned a lot from Roberts Ridge, which was some problems that we had earlier on, Operation Anaconda, which was after Tora Bora that next spring. So, yes, we always want to have helicopters in reserve and not knowing the exact details right now. But I can tell you what -- we probably had a couple observation points there from our CIA folks outside the perimeter of the compound. Very likely, we had on site eyes on watch, probably positive ID by Predator hovering above. And there's no doubt in my mind we had a gunship standing off at a certain range, and the gunship very good at nighttime operations.</s>BLITZER: This was happening at 1:00 a.m. And 40 minutes on the ground. I assume all of the U.S. personnel had night equipment so they could see what's going on at night. It's not an easy operation at night. But they had the advantage certainly of surprise coming in as they did, having the helicopters come in at 1:00 a.m. -- although those helicopters, as you know, Ed, they are very, very noisy.</s>O'CONNELL: Absolutely. Absolutely, Wolf. Probably had the HH- 53s we used there. But, yes, very noisy, so you have to minimize the surprise time. So, you've got a very short window that you're operating in. Almost when you're over the walls or near the walls, you're going to start hearing tremendous reverb from those blades. So, absolutely, a very difficult mission and very precise situation.</s>BLITZER: Do you believe -- I know what John Brennan, the president's counterterrorism adviser, said that they did have a contingency plan to bring bin Laden out alive. Although my suspicion always has been, I don't know what yours is, that they didn't want to bring him out alive, they didn't want to take him to Guantanamo, they didn't want to start a trial for Osama bin Laden and give him a lot of publicity. That if there was any opportunity to kill him and kill him in a firefight, that was -- that was the goal. But based on your experience at Tora Bora and over the years, what do you think?</s>O'CONNELL: I think you're absolutely right. I think the probably mission one was to kill him if we had positive ID. But, look, we learned a lot from Saddam. Remember, as you well know, all these months we had Saddam on trial. I think that's where I link up with Anderson. I first met him I think at Camp Cropper. And remember them bringing Saddam back and forth every day and all the international media and so forth. So, it turned into quite a circus. Also, we were a little afraid of making him a martyr. Now, in my view, though, that's a little bit of faulty reasoning because I think this is fascinating what we're seeing right now in history, we're seeing a double scoop of history almost. You've got sort of the "Arab Spring" and you've got the "U.S. Spring" -- these sophisticated people around the world that are not going to fall for this sort of mass- murdering propaganda machine we call al Qaeda anymore. So, really fascinating events taking place.</s>BLITZER: Lieutenant Colonel Ed O'Connell, retired, United States Air Force -- Colonel, thanks very much for joining us.</s>O'CONNELL: Thanks, Wolf.</s>BLITZER: Anderson, we've been reporting now for a while that there is a tape, either a videotape or an audiotape of bin Laden that have been prepared maybe years ago that was going to be released upon his death. He's now dead and we're now told that the tape is about to be released. Here's an ethical question that we at CNN and journalists indeed around the world are going to have -- I'm getting, since the last 20 minutes or so since we've reported this, a lot of appeals to us from my Twitter followers and others -- please, please, CNN, don't play that tape. Don't let bin Laden and al Qaeda have the satisfaction of playing that tape, report about it, but we don't want to see him. We don't want to hear him, we've had enough of him, we don't want to play into his hands. We certainly don't want to let people be energized, crazy people out there, fanatics who support bin Laden and al Qaeda be inspired by his words if they are released. It's just an ethical question that I think most news organizations are going to be facing in the coming minutes and coming hours. Do we play the tape or just report about the tape? There's no clear answer, Anderson.</s>COOPER: Well, I can tell you my answer and on my and any program that I'm associated with, I would not play that tape. I see no reason to do it. Obviously, throughout much of the world that tape will be played and if people want to hear that tape, they can -- they can get it. They won't certainly be hearing it from me. I think this guy is a mass murderer and there's no reason we should hear his voice ever again. Pakistan's former military chief is criticizing the U.S. for the raid, targeting bin Laden. That's right. He's criticizing the U.S. for the raid. I spoke to the former President Pervez Musharraf. You'll hear his candid about the raid coming up in just a moment. That's next.</s>BRENNAN: Al Qaeda is something in the past. And we're hoping to bury the rest of al Qaeda along with bin Laden.