Gay Marriage, White House Pooch
KURTZ: Gay marriage was a big issue in the 2004 campaign with President Bush and Vice President Cheney vowing to push a constitutional amendment to ban the practice. But in the last two weeks, it almost seems to have become old news. First, the Iowa Supreme Court legalized same-sex marriage in that heartland state, and days ago, Vermont lawmakers brushed off a veto by the Republican governor in becoming the first state to adopt gay marriage through legislation. But here's the real interesting part. This has not caused an explosion of press coverage. A handful of primetime cable news shows debated the issue, for one day, at least, none of them on Fox News.</s>RACHEL MADDOW, MSNBC: The country waited 232 years for the first two U.S. states to recognize gay marriage. Now we've got two more states in the space of a week.</s>ANDERSON COOPER, CNN: A lot of people on -- who are against gay marriage, when it happened in California, were saying, well, it's those liberal activist judges in California. Can't really say that about this court in Iowa, though, can you?</s>DAVID SHUSTER, MSNBC: At least in terms of generational issues, most people of my generation and Harold's generation see nothing wrong with gay marriage.</s>KURTZ: Why has the media reaction been so muted? I spoke earlier with two media commentators, one gay, one straight, on opposite sides of the gay marriage question.</s>KURTZ: Joining us now here in Washington, John Aravosis, found of AmericaBlog.com. And in Los Angeles, Dennis Prager, nationally syndicated radio talk show host, columnist and author most recently of "Happiness is a Serious Problem." John Aravosis, the news of this has certainly been covered, but most of the primetime shows have stayed away. No debates on Fox, no parade of right-wingers coming in to denounce this. Why is that?</s>JOHN ARAVOSIS, FOUNDER, AMERICABLOG.COM: I think America is bored of the topic a little bit in the sense that this is, what, the fourth or fifth state where we've now had gay marriage legalized, if you count California. There is only so many news stories you can do showing guys in tuxes, and what does it really mean, and will the world fall apart, are the locusts going to come and swarm us? If there were locusts, there would be news, but honestly, it's funny, I predict about a year ago on your show that, if California got repealed, gay marriage in California, the media would go crazy on that story. And they did.</s>KURTZ: Right.</s>ARAVOSIS: But the point is, that's news.</s>KURTZ: But let me bring you back to this week. We had Vermont, the first state to actually do this to elected representatives, "CBS Evening News", ABC's "World News", nothing at all. Three sentences on "NBC Nightly News." Is John right that the legalization in previous states, such as Massachusetts and Connecticut, have somehow convinced the media that this is not a current, pressing news issue?</s>DENNIS PRAGER, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: You asking me?</s>KURTZ: I'm asking you, Dennis.</s>PRAGER: Yes. Look, this is a real good question you're posing. I don't think that the press covers always what's most important because, honestly, whatever side you're on, I can't think, frankly, of a more important issue, even including the economy, then the definition of marriage. So this is really, to me, somewhat of an indictment of the news media and their priorities. This is big. You don't get bigger than the redefining of the most important civilian or civil and social institution that we have. And so your question is a legit one, and I think it reflects poorly on the media.</s>KURTZ: Do you think, Dennis Prager, that the coverage has been so unmuted also because journalists are supportive of gay marriage? They don't come out and say so, it's our job to be objective, but they don't view this as a threat or as a bad thing the way you do and the way some Americans do.</s>PRAGER: Yes. Well, that's right. I think that's a very fair analysis. It's almost as if one were to declare that rain is wet. Why cover it? It's so obviously the correct thing to do, and so that is a factor as well.</s>ARAVOSIS: See, but that's not really true either. I'm sorry, but if the media were pro-gay or so crazily pro-gay, then they would be reporting the story as, oh my God, look at these great civil rights victories again. Let's do a whole week show on how wonderful the gays are. But one other point, though. I appreciate Dennis saying that to him, this is the most important issue. I think to most Americans, whether or not we go into another Great Depression and whether or not I keep my job this year and can afford my mortgage, I'm sorry. First I pay my mortgage and I eat, then I worry about the neighbors down the street.</s>PRAGER: All right. But the interesting thing, John -- that's a very -- that's a fair point, but let me tell you, I've been covering this, I testified for DOMA at Congress. So I've been in this for many years.</s>ARAVOSIS: I have too.</s>PRAGER: I've been told from the beginning, John and Howard, from the beginning, this is no big deal. Americans are considering other things.</s>ARAVOSIS: They are.</s>PRAGER: When the economy was stupendous I was told that this was of secondary importance.</s>ARAVOSIS: Well, but maybe it is.</s>PRAGER: So I don't buy this notion that it's the economy now that is dwarfing this.</s>KURTZ: Let me bring you back to the media coverage, John, and I will go back to Dennis, and ask you this question. My theory is that when we had the legalization briefly in California, more permanently, as I said, in Massachusetts and Connecticut, you had a lot of images on TV of pictures of happy couples, including older women, and I think maybe that changed the media perception because they didn't seem particularly threatening to anyone.</s>ARAVOSIS: It wasn't just the media perception. It's a matter of the public perception. How many times could you show the same photo over and over again on the TV show or an AP story? It's not news any more, Howie. I can't show you the same -- I'm a photographer. Once I show you the same photo 10 times, you're going to say, John, show me your photo.</s>KURTZ: Dennis?</s>PRAGER: What you're saying, John, really doesn't contradict what I'm saying in that if there isn't drama to be shown, television news doesn't cover it. I agree with you.</s>ARAVOSIS: But that's always the point, of course.</s>PRAGER: If it leads and nothing is bleeding -- but it is the most important story.</s>ARAVOSIS: But it's not. The G-20 was the most important story last week, Howie.</s>PRAGER: No, no, no. It was the most covered. I'm sorry. I think -- listen, this is a matter of opinion.</s>ARAVOSIS: Yes, of course.</s>PRAGER: I of course think the economy is central. But even when the economy was doing well, people did not understand the gravity of the issue of redefining marriage.</s>ARAVOSIS: And I just disagree with you. I think the majority of Americans think the economy is more important.</s>KURTZ: Let's move on.</s>PRAGER: I agree, they do.</s>KURTZ: John Aravosis, in recent polls...</s>PRAGER: I agree.</s>KURTZ: ... CBS poll, 33 percent support gay marriage. CNN poll had it at 44 percent. A lot of Democrats oppose gay marriage. President Obama is not in favor of gay marriage. I think the news stories have dutifully quoted opponents, but it doesn't seem to me like they reflect the controversy that's still out there with ordinary Americans, maybe beside the pundits.</s>ARAVOSIS: You did not cite me a controversy. You told me that when asked, are Americans in favor or opposed to gay marriage? What you didn't get into was how strongly do they feel about this? I think there is a segment of the population, a segment of conservatives on the far right, that are incensed about gay marriage just like abortion. It is their number one issue. I think for most Americans, they may have an opinion on it, but it's not really strong. And so that if you really push below the surface, they go, you know what? I don't care. I don't like it. I don't care.</s>PRAGER: There we disagree, John. I think that most Americans who do want marriage defined as it always has been have simply given up on their ability to influence courts, which have taken it out of their hands, or legislatures which have taken it out of their hands. That's the problem, and I understand that given that there is nothing we can do even though -- look at California, we voted in California...</s>KURTZ: Let me jump in because we're down to our last minute. Dennis Prager, is there a hint, in your view, a whiff, perhaps, in the coverage, that if you oppose gay marriage you're kind of bigoted?</s>PRAGER: Whiff? You have to spend most of your time saying you're not homophobic, you're not like a racist. Right now, opposition to redefining marriage is considered the moral equivalent of opposition to racial integration.</s>KURTZ: All right. Let me get John in here.</s>ARAVOSIS: Of course, it is. But the point is...</s>PRAGER: OK. There you go.</s>ARAVOSIS: ... that the top story in America right now is the G-20 summit and Obama, and not going into a depression. And anybody who thinks the top story in America is gay marriage is off their rocker. And I'll let your audience decide, but I know 80 percent of them are going, that guy's right. The economy is the issue.</s>PRAGER: I think we are more likely to survive economically than we are the redefinition of marriage.</s>ARAVOSIS: I know you are. That's why I love you, Dennis.</s>KURTZ: Got to wrap it up. All right. Dennis Prager, John Aravosis, thanks very much for joining us this morning.</s>PRAGER: It's great to be loved.</s>KURTZ: Coming up in the second half of RELIABLE SOURCES, Levi laments. The father of Bristol Palin's baby speaks out on the television circuit, but do we really need to feast on the uncomfortable details of a teenage breakup? Deborah Norville joins our discussion. Plus, returning serve. Democratic strategist Joe Trippi on the John Edwards affair and why he thinks Republicans are wrong in saying the mainstream media are soft on President Obama. Also, going overboard. Is it OK for the gang at Fox News to join those April 15th tea party protests? And later, John King one-on-one with the U.S. commander in Iraq, General Ray Odierno.