> read authors citing the victims  no thanks. anyway youre too dumb to discuss with. the ottoman empire literally began losing to minor tribes and was never able to dislodge the venetians from the mediterranean nodes of power.  they were never going to conquer anything meaningful beyond the balkans and they couldnt even hold the balkans.   why? the ottomans were a non-issue. they are only relevant because of roachniks and slavim who make them out to be some great hegemon.   > 1883 semantics > the ottomans were invincible and expanding right up until 1922 am i talking to an abo? the ottomans ceased to be a real threat to europe long before the second battle of wien.  would it salve your fragile slavic mind if i revised my statement to say within a hundred years theyd lose their european holdings, within one hundred and forty more theyd no longer exist.? does that help? has my fundamental point changed? is your ego spared?
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