corrr where's mine?   i won though mate   that was my point, he was arguing the opposite point, that the state grants us our rights. i was saying how can that be the case when rights are immutable and inalienable and cannot be changed by human hands because they're fundamental to nature itself and our nature based on us having developed a capacity for higher order thinking / abstract thinking / reason / logic / high pattern recognition and being able to extrapolate morality, values, principles and natural rights from our observations of nature and what is best practice in relation to a cohesive, healthy community that allows for survival, propagation, equilibrium with one's environment and homeostasis
United Kingdom