arius denied that there was even an immanent logos or word or reason within god prior to the creation of the world. so the beginning of the logos was not from the substance of the father; rather the father created the logos out of nothing. he created the son, and therefore the son was a creature.  athanasius, who became the bishop of alexandria and was a champion of nicene orthodoxy, protested that on arius view the son is a creature and a work, not proper to the fathers essence  on arius view god the father existing without the son lacked even his word and his wisdom. he didnt have those immanent qualities within him.   casts/defenders-podcast-series-4/do ctrine-of-trinity/doctrine-of-trini ty-part-7-arianism
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