2 0 1 5 , ▁ 2 , 0 0 0 ▁words , ▁http :// n ational inter est . org / feature / ch inas - ap olit ical - polit ical - school - th ought - 1 2 8 2 3 ▁. ▁ ▁Inter views ▁and ▁Other ▁Media ▁ ▁" B ry an ▁Van ▁Norden ▁- ▁How ▁to ▁Live ▁a ▁Good ▁Life ▁According ▁to ▁Conf u cius " ▁Se ize ▁The ▁M oment ▁pod cast , ▁uploaded ▁ 1 ▁March ▁ 2 0 2 0 , ▁https :// www . youtube . com / watch ? v = SD S 0 O 9 8 O 8 e U ▁ ▁“ B etter ▁Know ▁Conf u cius ▁with ▁Bry an ▁Van ▁Norden ” ▁Em brace ▁the ▁Void , ▁uploaded ▁ 2 7 ▁December ▁ 2 0 1 9 , ▁https :// void pod . com / pod cast s / 2 0 1 9 / 1 2 / 2 7 / ev - 1 2 2 - bet ter - know - conf u cius - with - b ry an - van - n orden ▁ ▁“ Ph il osoph y ▁in ▁the ▁W ake ▁of ▁Empire , ▁Part ▁ 1 : ▁ ▁The ▁White ▁Way ▁to ▁Think ” ▁The ▁Phil os opher ’ s ▁Zone ▁on ▁ABC ▁ ▁News ▁Radio ▁( Austral ia ), ▁uploaded ▁ 3 ▁November ▁ 2 0 1 9 , ▁https :// www . abc . net . au / rad ion ational / program