evidence: This decrease of more than $1.7 trillion is in line with the "over $1.5 trillion" figure Biden cited in the interview (although, officially, this number is a moving target until the end of the fiscal year on Sept. 30). [...] Spending programs passed earlier in the pandemic began expiring this year, meaning federal outlays have declined. The Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget, a nonprofit public policy group, has estimated that more than 80% of the $1.7 trillion reduction in the deficit can be explained by expiring or shrinking COVID-19 relief. The White House argued in an exchange with PolitiFact that revenues have also risen because of improvements in the economy. [...] Without the reduced deficits Biden referred to, the federal debt would have been higher than $24.3 trillion, probably $1.7 trillion higher, if we use CBO’s estimate.