CNN International with Kim
marina zhang
[{'start': '0.160', 'end': '5.759', 'text': 'with the US. Import agencies in Shenzhen'}, {'start': '3.360', 'end': '9.360', 'text': 'say China appears to have quietly rolled'}, {'start': '5.759', 'end': '11.679', 'text': 'back retaliatory tariffs of 125% on some'}, {'start': '9.360', 'end': '13.920', 'text': 'microchips and semiconductors made in'}, {'start': '11.679', 'end': '16.080', 'text': "the US. Chinese authorities haven't"}, {'start': '13.920', 'end': '17.600', 'text': 'officially confirmed the exemptions, but'}, {'start': '16.080', 'end': '19.119', 'text': 'they are speaking out against President'}, {'start': '17.600', 'end': '21.119', 'text': "Donald Trump's repeated claims that"}, {'start': '19.119', 'end': '23.359', 'text': 'talks are underway to resolve the trade'}, {'start': '21.119', 'end': '25.600', 'text': 'war. The foreign ministry called it fake'}, {'start': '23.359', 'end': '28.080', 'text': "news, saying China and the US haven't"}, {'start': '25.600', 'end': '29.840', 'text': 'engaged in any consultations, let alone'}, {'start': '28.080', 'end': '31.760', 'text': 'reached any agreement. Trump has said'}, {'start': '29.840', 'end': '34.520', 'text': "he's optimistic about a deal that will"}, {'start': '31.760', 'end': '36.719', 'text': 'lower tariffs on China from the current'}, {'start': '34.520', 'end': '38.399', 'text': '145%. Reporters asked him about the'}, {'start': '36.719', 'end': '40.960', 'text': 'talks with Beijing on Thursday at the'}, {'start': '38.399', 'end': '42.879', 'text': 'White House. Here he is.'}, {'start': '40.960', 'end': '44.800', 'text': 'Can you clarify with whom the US is'}, {'start': '42.879', 'end': '46.480', 'text': "speaking with China? They're saying it's"}, {'start': '44.800', 'end': '48.719', 'text': 'fake news that trade talks are'}, {'start': '46.480', 'end': '50.879', 'text': 'happening. Well, they had a meeting this'}, {'start': '48.719', 'end': '53.760', 'text': "morning, so I can't tell you. It doesn't"}, {'start': '50.879', 'end': '55.760', 'text': 'matter who they is. Uh we may reveal it'}, {'start': '53.760', 'end': '57.600', 'text': 'later, but they had meetings this'}, {'start': '55.760', 'end': '59.920', 'text': 'morning.'}, {'start': '57.600', 'end': '62.320', 'text': 'Marina Jang is an associate professor at'}, {'start': '59.920', 'end': '64.000', 'text': 'the University of Technology Sydney. She'}, {'start': '62.320', 'end': '66.240', 'text': 'is also the co-author of the book'}, {'start': '64.000', 'end': '68.320', 'text': "Demystifying China's Innovation Machine"}, {'start': '66.240', 'end': '70.560', 'text': 'Chaotic Order. And she joined us from'}, {'start': '68.320', 'end': '72.400', 'text': 'Canra, Australia. Thank you so much for'}, {'start': '70.560', 'end': '74.320', 'text': "being here with us. So, we're reporting"}, {'start': '72.400', 'end': '77.600', 'text': 'that China appears to have quietly'}, {'start': '74.320', 'end': '80.080', 'text': 'rolled back retaliatory tariffs of 125%'}, {'start': '77.600', 'end': '82.240', 'text': 'on some semiconductors made in the US.'}, {'start': '80.080', 'end': '84.560', 'text': 'How do you read this move? And do you'}, {'start': '82.240', 'end': '87.439', 'text': 'think Donald Trump can now say, "See, my'}, {'start': '84.560', 'end': '90.240', 'text': 'plan worked?"'}, {'start': '87.439', 'end': '93.200', 'text': "Um, I don't think so. I think both sides"}, {'start': '90.240', 'end': '96.000', 'text': 'are playing a kind of game still. And'}, {'start': '93.200', 'end': '97.680', 'text': "judging by the ambiguity in Trump's"}, {'start': '96.000', 'end': '100.640', 'text': 'messages'}, {'start': '97.680', 'end': '105.040', 'text': 'um that well the who are the uh so to'}, {'start': '100.640', 'end': '108.159', 'text': 'speak um is um that message that gesture'}, {'start': '105.040', 'end': '112.240', 'text': 'can be perceived as he blinks first and'}, {'start': '108.159', 'end': '116.000', 'text': 'but of course China is um um I I read in'}, {'start': '112.240', 'end': '120.320', 'text': 'social media there there are a lot of um'}, {'start': '116.000', 'end': '122.960', 'text': 'um a lot of um posts suggesting that um'}, {'start': '120.320', 'end': '125.920', 'text': 'China is indeed cancelling the um the'}, {'start': '122.960', 'end': '129.119', 'text': 'the import tariffs on uh semiconductors'}, {'start': '125.920', 'end': '132.959', 'text': 'but semiconductors are very special uh'}, {'start': '129.119', 'end': '135.599', 'text': "products because they're hardly um um"}, {'start': '132.959', 'end': '138.239', 'text': "end um products they're used as"}, {'start': '135.599', 'end': '140.800', 'text': 'intermediary in other products so most'}, {'start': '138.239', 'end': '143.920', 'text': 'of those products are for um exports'}, {'start': '140.800', 'end': '147.640', 'text': "market and if China doesn't do this and"}, {'start': '143.920', 'end': '151.120', 'text': 'this will uh they will make um export'}, {'start': '147.640', 'end': '153.840', 'text': 'market exports uh even further than'}, {'start': '151.120', 'end': '157.440', 'text': "challenging So you can see that's the"}, {'start': '153.840', 'end': '163.560', 'text': 'kind of China uh quietly using a very'}, {'start': '157.440', 'end': '165.920', 'text': 'pragmatic um approach to to to sort of'}, {'start': '163.560', 'end': '167.920', 'text': 'deescalate the tensions between the two'}, {'start': '165.920', 'end': '171.200', 'text': "countries. But I don't think that will"}, {'start': '167.920', 'end': '175.120', 'text': 'be perceived at least by the people in'}, {'start': '171.200', 'end': '178.400', 'text': 'China by its own citizens as uh Beijing'}, {'start': '175.120', 'end': '180.640', 'text': 'conceding um ground to to Trump. Yeah, I'}, {'start': '178.400', 'end': '182.239', 'text': "guess I mean it's still a question who"}, {'start': '180.640', 'end': '183.840', 'text': 'who blinked first here. I mean,'}, {'start': '182.239', 'end': '186.480', 'text': 'President Trump slapped these huge'}, {'start': '183.840', 'end': '189.040', 'text': 'tariffs on China. China reciprocated. Uh'}, {'start': '186.480', 'end': '192.080', 'text': 'Trump now in general seems to be backing'}, {'start': '189.040', 'end': '195.360', 'text': 'down. So, is this how China hoped this'}, {'start': '192.080', 'end': '198.159', 'text': 'would all play out?'}, {'start': '195.360', 'end': '200.400', 'text': 'Well, China is um especially in this'}, {'start': '198.159', 'end': '202.959', 'text': 'game, I think both leaders, they have'}, {'start': '200.400', 'end': '206.879', 'text': 'totally different styles of leadership'}, {'start': '202.959', 'end': '212.239', 'text': 'and um um Beijing is not going to engage'}, {'start': '206.879', 'end': '216.159', 'text': 'in any this kind of ceremonial diplomacy'}, {'start': '212.239', 'end': '219.519', 'text': 'uh by by meeting by she meeting Trump.'}, {'start': '216.159', 'end': '222.400', 'text': 'uh if Beijing is uh going to meet Trump'}, {'start': '219.519', 'end': '227.120', 'text': 'that is um agreement a concrete'}, {'start': '222.400', 'end': '230.000', 'text': 'agreement uh have been achieved um'}, {'start': '227.120', 'end': '232.799', 'text': 'through negotiations behind doors. So'}, {'start': '230.000', 'end': '236.879', 'text': 'she is not going to engage in this um'}, {'start': '232.799', 'end': '239.120', 'text': 'social media diplomacy. Uh so if I use'}, {'start': '236.879', 'end': '242.959', 'text': 'Chinese traditional uh military'}, {'start': '239.120', 'end': '247.519', 'text': "philosophy this is Sunzu's um art of war"}, {'start': '242.959', 'end': '250.159', 'text': 'that is well if I use strategic defense'}, {'start': '247.519', 'end': '253.360', 'text': 'that actually is the best offense'}, {'start': '250.159', 'end': '256.720', 'text': 'because Beijing can buy time so uh so'}, {'start': '253.360', 'end': '259.600', 'text': 'that Beijing can uh build its um uh'}, {'start': '256.720', 'end': '263.520', 'text': 'alternative channels for export uh for'}, {'start': '259.600', 'end': '267.520', 'text': 'export markets and also sort of um'}, {'start': '263.520', 'end': '269.919', 'text': 'helping the local domestic manufacturers'}, {'start': '267.520', 'end': '272.400', 'text': 'to build channels to serve the uh'}, {'start': '269.919', 'end': '274.720', 'text': 'domestic market. All right. So in the'}, {'start': '272.400', 'end': '276.759', 'text': 'meantime then even if uh tariffs are'}, {'start': '274.720', 'end': '279.440', 'text': 'reduced or eliminated I mean how much'}, {'start': '276.759', 'end': '281.759', 'text': 'damage both economically and and'}, {'start': '279.440', 'end': '284.960', 'text': 'politically diplomatically and so on has'}, {'start': '281.759', 'end': '290.320', 'text': 'been done here?'}, {'start': '284.960', 'end': '293.840', 'text': 'Well um pretty pretty bad. I mean um I'}, {'start': '290.320', 'end': '297.520', 'text': "don't think Beijing wants to um wants to"}, {'start': '293.840', 'end': '301.360', 'text': 'reach this stage of face off uh because'}, {'start': '297.520', 'end': '304.160', 'text': 'um uh but but pretty much trade used to'}, {'start': '301.360', 'end': '306.160', 'text': 'to be the anchor for the bilateral'}, {'start': '304.160', 'end': '308.800', 'text': 'relationship between the US and China'}, {'start': '306.160', 'end': '314.320', 'text': 'but now this trade obviously is grown to'}, {'start': '308.800', 'end': '317.120', 'text': 'almost zero uh with tariffs over 100%.'}, {'start': '314.320', 'end': '318.880', 'text': 'So uh this is pretty bad and the'}, {'start': '317.120', 'end': '321.039', 'text': 'competition between the two countries'}, {'start': '318.880', 'end': '323.680', 'text': 'are at the three levels and the first is'}, {'start': '321.039', 'end': '326.479', 'text': 'obviously military national security um'}, {'start': '323.680', 'end': '330.440', 'text': 'and put that aside and trade technology'}, {'start': '326.479', 'end': '333.600', 'text': 'trade and technology especially um'}, {'start': '330.440', 'end': '337.120', 'text': 'technological dominance um of each'}, {'start': '333.600', 'end': '339.840', 'text': 'country um that is pretty um hitting up.'}, {'start': '337.120', 'end': '343.199', 'text': 'And the third is both countries are'}, {'start': '339.840', 'end': '346.720', 'text': 'using diplomacy to increase their'}, {'start': '343.199', 'end': '350.160', 'text': 'spheres of influence. And uh this is'}, {'start': '346.720', 'end': '352.639', 'text': 'this is if the if the competition are'}, {'start': '350.160', 'end': '354.960', 'text': 'going on at all these three levels that'}, {'start': '352.639', 'end': '357.680', 'text': 'is almost a full-blown competition.'}, {'start': '354.960', 'end': '359.600', 'text': 'Yeah. Well, listen, we only have about a'}, {'start': '357.680', 'end': '361.280', 'text': "minute left, but uh since you're you're"}, {'start': '359.600', 'end': '363.280', 'text': 'talking about sort of uh you know,'}, {'start': '361.280', 'end': '365.120', 'text': 'bilateral relations there and spheres of'}, {'start': '363.280', 'end': '366.960', 'text': 'influence especially, I want to widen'}, {'start': '365.120', 'end': '368.479', 'text': "this out. Now, you've written of of"}, {'start': '366.960', 'end': '370.479', 'text': 'President Trump, quote, "His Make'}, {'start': '368.479', 'end': '372.080', 'text': 'America Great Again" doctrine conflates'}, {'start': '370.479', 'end': '374.800', 'text': 'national renewal with international'}, {'start': '372.080', 'end': '377.120', 'text': 'disruption, transforming US influence'}, {'start': '374.800', 'end': '379.759', 'text': 'from a stabilizing force into a tool of'}, {'start': '377.120', 'end': '381.520', 'text': 'coercion. So, um, from a a trade'}, {'start': '379.759', 'end': '383.520', 'text': 'perspective, where does that leave'}, {'start': '381.520', 'end': '385.520', 'text': "America's allies? It's really forcing"}, {'start': '383.520', 'end': '387.000', 'text': 'them to to make some difficult choices'}, {'start': '385.520', 'end': '390.720', 'text': 'here.'}, {'start': '387.000', 'end': '393.680', 'text': 'indeed a very very challenging um'}, {'start': '390.720', 'end': '396.800', 'text': 'choices for countries like Vietnam even'}, {'start': '393.680', 'end': '399.600', 'text': 'Australian um because those countries'}, {'start': '396.800', 'end': '401.680', 'text': 'they especially countries like Vietnam'}, {'start': '399.600', 'end': '404.400', 'text': "and they're relying heavily on China's"}, {'start': '401.680', 'end': '407.600', 'text': 'supply chains but the export markets are'}, {'start': '404.400', 'end': '410.080', 'text': 'relying on the US. So this is really um'}, {'start': '407.600', 'end': '413.199', 'text': 'not not going to be good. But for for'}, {'start': '410.080', 'end': '415.360', 'text': 'countries like a like Australian I mean'}, {'start': '413.199', 'end': '417.759', 'text': 'Australian is facing federal election'}, {'start': '415.360', 'end': '420.000', 'text': 'and this is again a very very tough'}, {'start': '417.759', 'end': '423.280', 'text': 'choice for the for for those countries.'}, {'start': '420.000', 'end': '425.840', 'text': 'China it itself as because of the size'}, {'start': '423.280', 'end': '428.319', 'text': 'it can last a bit longer and especially'}, {'start': '425.840', 'end': '431.120', 'text': "she doesn't need to answer any um"}, {'start': '428.319', 'end': '434.160', 'text': "elector cycle. So it's a sort of a time"}, {'start': '431.120', 'end': '437.039', 'text': "is at China's side but for those third"}, {'start': '434.160', 'end': '438.960', 'text': "countries it's tough. It's a certainly a"}, {'start': '437.039', 'end': '440.800', 'text': 'fascinating faceoff between these two'}, {'start': '438.960', 'end': '442.639', 'text': 'superpowers but the the the'}, {'start': '440.800', 'end': '445.199', 'text': 'reverberations are felt around the'}, {'start': '442.639', 'end': '447.759', 'text': 'world. Marina Jang in Canbor really'}, {'start': '445.199', 'end': '451.039', 'text': 'appreciate it. Thank you so much. Thank'}, {'start': '447.759', 'end': '451.039', 'text': 'you for having me. Bye.'}]