Could the Shroud of Turin Be the Ultimate Evidence of the Resurrection?
Guy Powell
[{'start': '11.040', 'end': '16.480', 'text': 'Hey, Guy Powell here and welcome to the'}, {'start': '14.160', 'end': '18.640', 'text': 'next episode of the backstory on the'}, {'start': '16.480', 'end': '21.439', 'text': "Shroud of Tin. If you haven't already"}, {'start': '18.640', 'end': '24.080', 'text': 'done so, please visit gupowell.com and'}, {'start': '21.439', 'end': '26.240', 'text': 'sign up for more episodes. I am the'}, {'start': '24.080', 'end': '28.880', 'text': 'author of the book The Only Witness.'}, {'start': '26.240', 'end': '31.840', 'text': "It's a Christian historical fiction"}, {'start': '28.880', 'end': '34.079', 'text': 'tracing a possible history of the Shroud'}, {'start': '31.840', 'end': '36.480', 'text': "over the last two millennia. Today we're"}, {'start': '34.079', 'end': '38.640', 'text': 'speaking with Tom Dallas and he is a'}, {'start': '36.480', 'end': '40.960', 'text': 'Christian apologist and researcher and'}, {'start': '38.640', 'end': '43.200', 'text': 'speaker on the shroud. And uh let me'}, {'start': '40.960', 'end': '45.760', 'text': 'tell you a little bit more about him. Uh'}, {'start': '43.200', 'end': '48.160', 'text': 'Dr. Tom Dallas. He is an evangelical'}, {'start': '45.760', 'end': '50.960', 'text': 'scholar and Christian apologist and he'}, {'start': '48.160', 'end': '53.680', 'text': 'holds advanced degrees in theology and'}, {'start': '50.960', 'end': '56.879', 'text': 'post-graduate studies in Jewish culture,'}, {'start': '53.680', 'end': '59.760', 'text': 'Hebrew, and Shroud studies. And after 25'}, {'start': '56.879', 'end': '62.640', 'text': 'years as an award-winning filmmaker, Tom'}, {'start': '59.760', 'end': '66.720', 'text': 'now focuses on theology and apologetics'}, {'start': '62.640', 'end': '66.720', 'text': 'through his blog uh'}, {'start': '67.479', 'end': '70.560', 'text': "www.tomstheology.blog. And uh I've"}, {'start': '69.280', 'end': '73.040', 'text': "looked at that and it's pretty"}, {'start': '70.560', 'end': '75.520', 'text': 'fascinating. I love all the topics, but'}, {'start': '73.040', 'end': '78.159', 'text': "uh let me stop talking and let's uh get"}, {'start': '75.520', 'end': '80.400', 'text': 'going with Tom. So Tom, uh great to have'}, {'start': '78.159', 'end': '82.479', 'text': 'you and welcome. So good to uh be able'}, {'start': '80.400', 'end': '84.560', 'text': 'to spend some time with you today. Well,'}, {'start': '82.479', 'end': '86.479', 'text': 'thank you guy. I appreciate it and I'}, {'start': '84.560', 'end': '88.080', 'text': 'looking forward to this conversation.'}, {'start': '86.479', 'end': '90.159', 'text': 'Yeah, absolutely. So tell us your'}, {'start': '88.080', 'end': '93.560', 'text': 'backstory on how you got involved with'}, {'start': '90.159', 'end': '96.560', 'text': 'the Shroud of Trin. Well, as a Christian'}, {'start': '93.560', 'end': '99.600', 'text': 'apologist, uh, presenting defense of the'}, {'start': '96.560', 'end': '102.720', 'text': 'faith, uh, arguments for the existence'}, {'start': '99.600', 'end': '104.079', 'text': 'of God, uh, and for the New Testament,'}, {'start': '102.720', 'end': '106.240', 'text': "uh, was something I've always been"}, {'start': '104.079', 'end': '108.079', 'text': 'interested in. And then as I studied,'}, {'start': '106.240', 'end': '110.320', 'text': 'uh, Jewish culture and context through'}, {'start': '108.079', 'end': '114.040', 'text': 'the Israel Bible Center, bringing that'}, {'start': '110.320', 'end': '117.280', 'text': 'that that Jewish flavor to uh, our'}, {'start': '114.040', 'end': '120.000', 'text': 'evangelistic outreach was uh, important'}, {'start': '117.280', 'end': '122.399', 'text': 'to me. Uh, the Stra just naturally fit'}, {'start': '120.000', 'end': '125.520', 'text': 'in there. You know, I I remember back'}, {'start': '122.399', 'end': '128.560', 'text': 'when I was in college in the 70s, uh'}, {'start': '125.520', 'end': '131.840', 'text': 'when uh everyone was uh really excited'}, {'start': '128.560', 'end': '135.760', 'text': 'about the shroud because of the uh STR'}, {'start': '131.840', 'end': '137.360', 'text': 'uh findings and and all. Um and so I'}, {'start': '135.760', 'end': '142.319', 'text': 'kind of followed it a little bit then'}, {'start': '137.360', 'end': '145.360', 'text': 'and then uh came the 1988 uh carbon 14'}, {'start': '142.319', 'end': '148.879', 'text': 'fiasco and uh that that all came about'}, {'start': '145.360', 'end': '151.200', 'text': "and so uh I didn't lose faith in the in"}, {'start': '148.879', 'end': '154.680', 'text': "the shroud. it's just didn't have as"}, {'start': '151.200', 'end': '157.440', 'text': 'much of an impact uh in my life. Uh but'}, {'start': '154.680', 'end': '159.840', 'text': 'then when I started reading things like'}, {'start': '157.440', 'end': '163.440', 'text': 'what Joe Moreno did and and and others'}, {'start': '159.840', 'end': '166.400', 'text': 'with with that little reserve uh of the'}, {'start': '163.440', 'end': '168.720', 'text': 'of the shroud and challenging the carbon'}, {'start': '166.400', 'end': '170.239', 'text': '14 dating and then the new tests that'}, {'start': '168.720', 'end': '172.640', 'text': "have come out. So we've got five"}, {'start': '170.239', 'end': '175.200', 'text': 'different tests uh now besides the'}, {'start': '172.640', 'end': '178.720', 'text': 'carbon 14 all of them putting at 2,000'}, {'start': '175.200', 'end': '181.680', 'text': 'years of age. Uh well, now this has got'}, {'start': '178.720', 'end': '184.480', 'text': 'my attention as an apologist and'}, {'start': '181.680', 'end': '187.080', 'text': 'something to present to skeptics so that'}, {'start': '184.480', 'end': '190.400', 'text': 'they can see something tangible and'}, {'start': '187.080', 'end': '192.159', 'text': 'testable in relation to our faith. Yeah,'}, {'start': '190.400', 'end': '194.000', 'text': 'absolutely. And that uh makes a lot of'}, {'start': '192.159', 'end': '196.879', 'text': "sense. Now, you've uh spent a lot of"}, {'start': '194.000', 'end': '199.519', 'text': 'time understanding Jewish burial'}, {'start': '196.879', 'end': '201.440', 'text': 'practices and uh especially in the first'}, {'start': '199.519', 'end': '203.040', 'text': 'century. And one of the things, of'}, {'start': '201.440', 'end': '205.440', 'text': 'course, that a lot of people forget,'}, {'start': '203.040', 'end': '207.519', 'text': 'even Christians forget is that Jesus'}, {'start': '205.440', 'end': '209.519', 'text': 'Christ was not a Christian, so to speak.'}, {'start': '207.519', 'end': '212.319', 'text': 'He was Jewish, right? I mean, obviously'}, {'start': '209.519', 'end': '214.480', 'text': 'he was Christian, but he was Jewish. And'}, {'start': '212.319', 'end': '217.440', 'text': 'so, a lot of the things that were going'}, {'start': '214.480', 'end': '220.080', 'text': 'on at that time had to related to the'}, {'start': '217.440', 'end': '221.840', 'text': 'the Jewish traditions and rights,'}, {'start': '220.080', 'end': '223.840', 'text': 'especially as it related to the burial.'}, {'start': '221.840', 'end': '226.159', 'text': 'And then that, of course, uh, you know,'}, {'start': '223.840', 'end': '228.400', 'text': 'we can see some of those results as as'}, {'start': '226.159', 'end': '230.319', 'text': "they're reflected in the shroud. So tell"}, {'start': '228.400', 'end': '232.640', 'text': 'us a little bit first of all about uh'}, {'start': '230.319', 'end': '235.200', 'text': 'Jewish uh first century burial'}, {'start': '232.640', 'end': '237.840', 'text': 'practices. Well uh first century Jewish'}, {'start': '235.200', 'end': '239.360', 'text': 'burial practices uh did vary depending'}, {'start': '237.840', 'end': '242.000', 'text': 'on where you were at in Israel but'}, {'start': '239.360', 'end': '245.680', 'text': 'around Jerusalem and Judea they practice'}, {'start': '242.000', 'end': '247.360', 'text': 'secondary burials. So uh what you would'}, {'start': '245.680', 'end': '250.400', 'text': 'this is why if you go to Jerusalem today'}, {'start': '247.360', 'end': '252.720', 'text': 'you can find a lot of ocerary boxes. So'}, {'start': '250.400', 'end': '254.720', 'text': 'uh it was not uncommon then for people'}, {'start': '252.720', 'end': '256.560', 'text': 'to you know they would take take the'}, {'start': '254.720', 'end': '259.120', 'text': 'body they would they would wash it. This'}, {'start': '256.560', 'end': '262.639', 'text': 'was an act of kindness. Uh they would'}, {'start': '259.120', 'end': '265.759', 'text': 'bring spices and uh uh perfumes and all'}, {'start': '262.639', 'end': '268.560', 'text': 'but that that was not so much it was had'}, {'start': '265.759', 'end': '270.479', 'text': 'nothing to do with uh embombing. It had'}, {'start': '268.560', 'end': '274.000', 'text': 'to do with much like we would bring'}, {'start': '270.479', 'end': '277.520', 'text': 'flowers uh to a funeral today and and'}, {'start': '274.000', 'end': '280.000', 'text': 'also that was what was customary. uh the'}, {'start': '277.520', 'end': '283.040', 'text': 'the family, the loved ones would take'}, {'start': '280.000', 'end': '286.720', 'text': 'the body, usually wash it uh depending'}, {'start': '283.040', 'end': '289.199', 'text': 'on the mode of death uh and then uh'}, {'start': '286.720', 'end': '292.639', 'text': 'anoint it and then cover it and give it'}, {'start': '289.199', 'end': '294.880', 'text': 'a year to decay and then gather up the'}, {'start': '292.639', 'end': '297.199', 'text': 'bones and put them in an ocerary or a'}, {'start': '294.880', 'end': '300.000', 'text': "bone box. Uh that's that was pretty"}, {'start': '297.199', 'end': '302.880', 'text': 'prominent in the first century in'}, {'start': '300.000', 'end': '305.120', 'text': 'Jerusalem. Now if you go to places like'}, {'start': '302.880', 'end': '307.199', 'text': 'u at Kuman'}, {'start': '305.120', 'end': '309.759', 'text': "uh that's something completely different"}, {'start': '307.199', 'end': '311.600', 'text': 'there because now instead of burying'}, {'start': '309.759', 'end': '315.759', 'text': 'people where they were facing towards'}, {'start': '311.600', 'end': '318.000', 'text': 'Jerusalem um the the uh society there'}, {'start': '315.759', 'end': '321.039', 'text': 'had a falling out uh back in the'}, {'start': '318.000', 'end': '323.280', 'text': 'Makabian period with the uh uh the'}, {'start': '321.039', 'end': '326.720', 'text': 'priests and all of the temple and so'}, {'start': '323.280', 'end': '328.960', 'text': 'theans and the uh community of Kuman'}, {'start': '326.720', 'end': '330.880', 'text': 'they tend to bury north south they did'}, {'start': '328.960', 'end': '333.280', 'text': 'not have a secondary burial'}, {'start': '330.880', 'end': '337.120', 'text': 'uh they buried in the ground often with'}, {'start': '333.280', 'end': '340.000', 'text': 'uh uh coffins that uh had no bottom. So'}, {'start': '337.120', 'end': '342.720', 'text': 'their their uh body would be against the'}, {'start': '340.000', 'end': '346.080', 'text': 'ground as opposed to digging out niches'}, {'start': '342.720', 'end': '348.800', 'text': "or cave graves uh that you'd find in uh"}, {'start': '346.080', 'end': '353.440', 'text': 'in uh elsewhere in Jerusalem such as'}, {'start': '348.800', 'end': '355.440', 'text': 'around Jericho or in Jerusalem itself.'}, {'start': '353.440', 'end': '358.400', 'text': 'Yeah. Now, you talked about the spices'}, {'start': '355.440', 'end': '360.160', 'text': 'and also other things uh that would uh'}, {'start': '358.400', 'end': '363.120', 'text': 'accompany the burial and be part of'}, {'start': '360.160', 'end': '364.960', 'text': 'that. Uh Nicodemus has said he was a'}, {'start': '363.120', 'end': '368.080', 'text': 'member of the Sanhedrin, so he clearly'}, {'start': '364.960', 'end': '370.199', 'text': 'knew the Jewish burial practices. Um it'}, {'start': '368.080', 'end': '373.919', 'text': "said that he brought I think it's 75"}, {'start': '370.199', 'end': '375.840', 'text': 'pounds of uh burial spices and allows'}, {'start': '373.919', 'end': '377.600', 'text': 'and what have you. Why do you why did he'}, {'start': '375.840', 'end': '380.479', 'text': 'bring so much? That sounds like an awful'}, {'start': '377.600', 'end': '384.160', 'text': 'an awful lot of an awful lot of uh stuff'}, {'start': '380.479', 'end': '387.360', 'text': 'to bring. It it certainly would be for'}, {'start': '384.160', 'end': '391.039', 'text': 'most people, but it would not be an'}, {'start': '387.360', 'end': '394.120', 'text': 'abnormal amount of spices for a king. Uh'}, {'start': '391.039', 'end': '398.080', 'text': 'for a king, you would bring out the very'}, {'start': '394.120', 'end': '400.800', 'text': 'best. Nicodemus and uh Joseph Arythea'}, {'start': '398.080', 'end': '404.800', 'text': 'both recognized that this was their'}, {'start': '400.800', 'end': '408.880', 'text': 'messiah, the king. And so that 75 lbs of'}, {'start': '404.800', 'end': '412.720', 'text': 'spices that Nicodemus gets uh is exactly'}, {'start': '408.880', 'end': '416.240', 'text': 'what we would expect a a king uh during'}, {'start': '412.720', 'end': '418.800', 'text': 'uh uh his burial. Uh so you know that'}, {'start': '416.240', 'end': '420.319', 'text': 'that would be a kind of like you know if'}, {'start': '418.800', 'end': '423.280', 'text': 'you if you go to a funeral home today'}, {'start': '420.319', 'end': '425.520', 'text': 'and and somebody is is uh you know not'}, {'start': '423.280', 'end': '428.000', 'text': 'not wellto-do you know you might see a'}, {'start': '425.520', 'end': '430.960', 'text': 'few flowers but if there someone who is'}, {'start': '428.000', 'end': '433.120', 'text': 'of importance or someone well known you'}, {'start': '430.960', 'end': '434.960', 'text': 'know the place is going to be packed uh'}, {'start': '433.120', 'end': '436.639', 'text': "with the flowers and that's that's"}, {'start': '434.960', 'end': '439.199', 'text': 'really what the spices uh would'}, {'start': '436.639', 'end': '441.919', 'text': 'represent there. Yeah. Yeah. It would'}, {'start': '439.199', 'end': '443.759', 'text': "seem like uh that and I'm maybe getting"}, {'start': '441.919', 'end': '446.479', 'text': 'a little bit off, but that had to have'}, {'start': '443.759', 'end': '448.160', 'text': 'been pretty expensive to uh so it was'}, {'start': '446.479', 'end': '449.919', 'text': 'kind of like, you know, having a huge'}, {'start': '448.160', 'end': '452.560', 'text': 'bouquet of flowers as opposed to a'}, {'start': '449.919', 'end': '456.240', 'text': 'smaller one. So, I mean, 75 pounds of'}, {'start': '452.560', 'end': '458.720', 'text': 'anything is has got to be quite a bit.'}, {'start': '456.240', 'end': '461.120', 'text': "Yeah. And and I think that there's a a"}, {'start': '458.720', 'end': '467.560', 'text': 'connection because one of the main uh'}, {'start': '461.120', 'end': '470.840', 'text': 'groups of um sellers of u of myrr and uh'}, {'start': '467.560', 'end': '473.840', 'text': 'frankincense were the uh uh'}, {'start': '470.840', 'end': '476.879', 'text': 'nebotans and they lived uh south of the'}, {'start': '473.840', 'end': '480.240', 'text': 'Dead Sea. They were an Arab Arabic uh'}, {'start': '476.879', 'end': '482.720', 'text': 'tribal people but they were into trades.'}, {'start': '480.240', 'end': '486.919', 'text': 'So uh although I cannot prove this and'}, {'start': '482.720', 'end': '489.599', 'text': "I'm not suggesting it but they also sold"}, {'start': '486.919', 'end': '493.759', 'text': 'textiles and we are told in the gospels'}, {'start': '489.599', 'end': '496.960', 'text': 'that Nicodemus and uh Joseph of Arythea'}, {'start': '493.759', 'end': '499.280', 'text': 'go and get permission first of all to to'}, {'start': '496.960', 'end': '501.199', 'text': 'get the body of Christ. Then Pontius'}, {'start': '499.280', 'end': '505.120', 'text': 'Pilate has to check to make sure that'}, {'start': '501.199', 'end': '506.639', 'text': 'Jesus has died. This is uh after 3:00 in'}, {'start': '505.120', 'end': '510.240', 'text': 'the afternoon. they have to have it all'}, {'start': '506.639', 'end': '513.760', 'text': 'done by uh 6:00, 6:30, somewhere in that'}, {'start': '510.240', 'end': '515.959', 'text': 'neighborhood. Uh so they go and and then'}, {'start': '513.760', 'end': '519.039', 'text': 'it says that that they went and they'}, {'start': '515.959', 'end': '523.519', 'text': 'bought the shroud, you know, and they'}, {'start': '519.039', 'end': '526.080', 'text': 'bought 75 lbs of of uh spices and then'}, {'start': '523.519', 'end': '528.800', 'text': 'brought that uh and then the body of'}, {'start': '526.080', 'end': '531.200', 'text': 'course is taken down and the uh uh uh'}, {'start': '528.800', 'end': '534.080', 'text': 'sudarium is wrapped around his face and'}, {'start': '531.200', 'end': '536.800', 'text': "he's carried to the tomb. all of that,"}, {'start': '534.080', 'end': '540.640', 'text': "you know, you're right there at the very"}, {'start': '536.800', 'end': '543.519', 'text': 'to to do a a Jewish uh washing of the'}, {'start': '540.640', 'end': '546.560', 'text': "body and and anointing. You're talking"}, {'start': '543.519', 'end': '548.000', 'text': 'like an hour, hour and a half. Uh you'}, {'start': '546.560', 'end': '550.560', 'text': 'know, this is why the women are'}, {'start': '548.000', 'end': '552.399', 'text': 'following and watching. The Sabbath is'}, {'start': '550.560', 'end': '555.760', 'text': "approaching. They're going to do all of"}, {'start': '552.399', 'end': '559.760', 'text': 'that uh come Sunday morning. Uh but they'}, {'start': '555.760', 'end': '562.800', 'text': 'had a they had a very pleasant surprise.'}, {'start': '559.760', 'end': '567.760', 'text': 'Well, definitely a surprise. And uh I'}, {'start': '562.800', 'end': '570.480', 'text': 'mean yes. Wow. Exactly. Um so uh how and'}, {'start': '567.760', 'end': '572.240', 'text': 'how do uh the burial practices change'}, {'start': '570.480', 'end': '574.399', 'text': 'over time? How did that you know go from'}, {'start': '572.240', 'end': '575.839', 'text': 'the first century maybe even up to uh'}, {'start': '574.399', 'end': '578.160', 'text': 'today? How have they how have they'}, {'start': '575.839', 'end': '579.519', 'text': 'changed? Oh well burial practices are'}, {'start': '578.160', 'end': '582.160', 'text': 'constantly changing. I mean look at in'}, {'start': '579.519', 'end': '585.440', 'text': "the United States. Uh we didn't embomb"}, {'start': '582.160', 'end': '588.320', 'text': 'people until the Civil War. You can tell'}, {'start': '585.440', 'end': '590.240', 'text': 'uh by looking at uh stones, headstones,'}, {'start': '588.320', 'end': '592.480', 'text': 'not just the the carvings, but I mean,'}, {'start': '590.240', 'end': '594.880', 'text': 'are they made out of slate? Uh is this'}, {'start': '592.480', 'end': '597.959', 'text': 'granite as opposed to marble? Uh you'}, {'start': '594.880', 'end': '600.399', 'text': 'know, those were all put dates uh in'}, {'start': '597.959', 'end': '602.240', 'text': 'Americanerary practices. Well, in the'}, {'start': '600.399', 'end': '603.760', 'text': 'first century, we kind of we had some of'}, {'start': '602.240', 'end': '606.399', 'text': 'that, especially when the Christians'}, {'start': '603.760', 'end': '609.440', 'text': 'started influencing uh you know,erary'}, {'start': '606.399', 'end': '612.160', 'text': 'practices as well, but um uh you know,'}, {'start': '609.440', 'end': '614.880', 'text': 'to the Jews, it was it was always, you'}, {'start': '612.160', 'end': '617.839', 'text': "know, for the most part uh let's have"}, {'start': '614.880', 'end': '620.399', 'text': 'this done within 24 hours. This is done'}, {'start': '617.839', 'end': '622.640', 'text': 'by family members or close loved ones.'}, {'start': '620.399', 'end': '625.519', 'text': "Uh and uh we're going to put the person"}, {'start': '622.640', 'end': '626.839', 'text': "into the in into the inunement. It's"}, {'start': '625.519', 'end': '629.880', 'text': 'that first'}, {'start': '626.839', 'end': '634.160', 'text': 'year that is is'}, {'start': '629.880', 'end': '636.560', 'text': 'really unique to um to that period. This'}, {'start': '634.160', 'end': '638.399', 'text': 'is one of the reasons well it ends by 70'}, {'start': '636.560', 'end': '640.720', 'text': 'AD because we have the the destruction'}, {'start': '638.399', 'end': '643.839', 'text': 'of the temple and the expulsion of of'}, {'start': '640.720', 'end': '645.519', 'text': 'the Jews out of Israel. But um up until'}, {'start': '643.839', 'end': '649.560', 'text': 'then you know they would they would do'}, {'start': '645.519', 'end': '652.480', 'text': 'this secondary burial. And uh in Jewish'}, {'start': '649.560', 'end': '657.519', 'text': 'theology a person is atoning for their'}, {'start': '652.480', 'end': '661.720', 'text': 'sins constantly. and even in death. So'}, {'start': '657.519', 'end': '664.560', 'text': 'when you die and your body is is uh'}, {'start': '661.720', 'end': '667.600', 'text': 'decaying, you know, that that is a type'}, {'start': '664.560', 'end': '672.000', 'text': "of atonement uh for one's own personal"}, {'start': '667.600', 'end': '674.720', 'text': 'sins. So the year later whenever the the'}, {'start': '672.000', 'end': '676.480', 'text': 'body has decayed and the bones are left'}, {'start': '674.720', 'end': '678.640', 'text': 'and they go in and they gather up the'}, {'start': '676.480', 'end': '680.560', 'text': 'bones, we think that kind of strange.'}, {'start': '678.640', 'end': '682.560', 'text': 'They certainly would think us uh'}, {'start': '680.560', 'end': '684.800', 'text': 'embombing somebody and going and looking'}, {'start': '682.560', 'end': '687.279', 'text': 'at them uh you know at a funeral home'}, {'start': '684.800', 'end': '689.200', 'text': 'would be strange. Uh but but what they'}, {'start': '687.279', 'end': '691.040', 'text': 'would do they saw that as a time of'}, {'start': '689.200', 'end': '694.480', 'text': 'rejoicing because that means that their'}, {'start': '691.040', 'end': '696.959', 'text': 'loved one is no longer suffering. And so'}, {'start': '694.480', 'end': '698.880', 'text': 'they could be gathering up their bones.'}, {'start': '696.959', 'end': '702.480', 'text': 'They would put them in an ocerary box.'}, {'start': '698.880', 'end': '704.240', 'text': 'In older times in in Israel, what they'}, {'start': '702.480', 'end': '707.040', 'text': 'would do is they would gather up those'}, {'start': '704.240', 'end': '709.040', 'text': 'bones and put them in one spot with all'}, {'start': '707.040', 'end': '710.959', 'text': 'the other family members. And this is'}, {'start': '709.040', 'end': '714.000', 'text': 'where the expression they were gathered'}, {'start': '710.959', 'end': '716.000', 'text': 'to their fathers uh comes from. So they'}, {'start': '714.000', 'end': '717.519', 'text': 'literally took that or they took that'}, {'start': '716.000', 'end': '719.680', 'text': 'very literally that they would gather up'}, {'start': '717.519', 'end': '723.200', 'text': 'the bones and put them uh with their'}, {'start': '719.680', 'end': '727.279', 'text': 'forefathers. Yeah. So um now was it'}, {'start': '723.200', 'end': '730.079', 'text': 'usual for a uh shroud uh to be put over'}, {'start': '727.279', 'end': '732.639', 'text': 'the body? Uh was that typical or was'}, {'start': '730.079', 'end': '735.519', 'text': 'that only then for a king? Uh like a'}, {'start': '732.639', 'end': '737.600', 'text': 'kingly burial that that Joseph of Arya'}, {'start': '735.519', 'end': '740.560', 'text': 'and Nicodemus were trying to replicate'}, {'start': '737.600', 'end': '743.760', 'text': 'with Jesus or um what what can you talk'}, {'start': '740.560', 'end': '746.480', 'text': 'about there? Uh it was extremely common.'}, {'start': '743.760', 'end': '750.079', 'text': 'Uh you either were buried in the ground'}, {'start': '746.480', 'end': '752.000', 'text': 'with a coffin without a bottom or you'}, {'start': '750.079', 'end': '756.720', 'text': 'had a shroud. Uh I mentioned the'}, {'start': '752.000', 'end': '760.000', 'text': 'Nebotans earlier. Uh we have um a at uh'}, {'start': '756.720', 'end': '763.519', 'text': 'um Caribbe Kazone uh which is the ruins'}, {'start': '760.000', 'end': '767.760', 'text': 'of Kazone uh south of the Dead Sea. Uh'}, {'start': '763.519', 'end': '770.320', 'text': 'we discovered like 35 different 3500'}, {'start': '767.760', 'end': '773.519', 'text': 'graves there and they were all buried in'}, {'start': '770.320', 'end': '776.480', 'text': 'leather shrouds. Uh now these were not'}, {'start': '773.519', 'end': '781.120', 'text': 'Jewish people but we have to remember'}, {'start': '776.480', 'end': '784.800', 'text': "King Herod's mother was a Nebotian. Uh"}, {'start': '781.120', 'end': '787.120', 'text': 'so there there is that uh cross-cultural'}, {'start': '784.800', 'end': '788.800', 'text': 'uh impact. Um so what they would'}, {'start': '787.120', 'end': '790.160', 'text': 'normally do is they would lay out a'}, {'start': '788.800', 'end': '792.000', 'text': 'shroud you know depending on the'}, {'start': '790.160', 'end': '795.920', 'text': "person's height. Uh they would lay them"}, {'start': '792.000', 'end': '798.560', 'text': 'on a burial bench. Um they would have'}, {'start': '795.920', 'end': '801.040', 'text': 'the the strips of the aonia the strips'}, {'start': '798.560', 'end': '804.000', 'text': 'of cloth that would be the binding uh'}, {'start': '801.040', 'end': '807.040', 'text': 'underneath the shroud. They would lay it'}, {'start': '804.000', 'end': '809.440', 'text': 'open with with with a um you know the'}, {'start': '807.040', 'end': '811.920', 'text': 'still the second half at the top. lay'}, {'start': '809.440', 'end': '814.399', 'text': 'the body on. Uh if they if they were'}, {'start': '811.920', 'end': '817.680', 'text': 'doing any uh anointing, they would'}, {'start': '814.399', 'end': '821.279', 'text': 'anoint them at that point. They would um'}, {'start': '817.680', 'end': '824.160', 'text': 'uh remove a facecloth for the family to'}, {'start': '821.279', 'end': '827.600', 'text': 'come in and and pay final respects,'}, {'start': '824.160', 'end': '830.160', 'text': 'kissing, uh uh saying goodbye, you know'}, {'start': '827.600', 'end': '832.079', 'text': 'what what they would do do and then take'}, {'start': '830.160', 'end': '835.600', 'text': 'the remaining of the cloth and cover it'}, {'start': '832.079', 'end': '839.240', 'text': 'over the body and then tie it. Um, we'}, {'start': '835.600', 'end': '844.720', 'text': "don't have an abundance"}, {'start': '839.240', 'end': '848.079', 'text': 'of linen shrouds because bodies wrapped'}, {'start': '844.720', 'end': '852.320', 'text': "in or linen that's that's wrapping a"}, {'start': '848.079', 'end': '855.360', 'text': "body that's decaying do not last long."}, {'start': '852.320', 'end': '859.720', 'text': "Um, they're going to uh uh dissolve."}, {'start': '855.360', 'end': '864.120', 'text': "They're going to putrify uh and and all."}, {'start': '859.720', 'end': '866.240', 'text': 'And prior to uh the the end of the first'}, {'start': '864.120', 'end': '868.720', 'text': 'century, sometimes it was a simple'}, {'start': '866.240', 'end': '870.639', 'text': 'linen, sometimes if if the person was'}, {'start': '868.720', 'end': '873.360', 'text': 'very wealthy, it would be a more'}, {'start': '870.639', 'end': '875.040', 'text': 'elaborate type linen or more expensive'}, {'start': '873.360', 'end': '877.920', 'text': 'linen. We know from the New Testament,'}, {'start': '875.040', 'end': '880.959', 'text': 'this is exactly uh what uh what what'}, {'start': '877.920', 'end': '883.120', 'text': 'Jesus had, very fine linen, it says uh'}, {'start': '880.959', 'end': '886.560', 'text': 'in scripture. Later on, according to the'}, {'start': '883.120', 'end': '889.440', 'text': 'Mishna, uh we find that um it was more'}, {'start': '886.560', 'end': '893.199', 'text': "common for no matter what a a person's"}, {'start': '889.440', 'end': '897.199', 'text': 'uh status was to have a more uh less'}, {'start': '893.199', 'end': '899.440', 'text': 'elaborate uh shroud, linen shroud.'}, {'start': '897.199', 'end': '902.160', 'text': "Yeah. Interesting. Now you've written a"}, {'start': '899.440', 'end': '904.320', 'text': 'uh a paper um and I have another'}, {'start': '902.160', 'end': '905.760', 'text': 'question but first of all tell us a'}, {'start': '904.320', 'end': '907.680', 'text': 'little bit about your paper and then we'}, {'start': '905.760', 'end': '910.560', 'text': 'can talk about uh some of the'}, {'start': '907.680', 'end': '913.440', 'text': 'probability uh related calculations that'}, {'start': '910.560', 'end': '915.440', 'text': 'might need to be done there. Okay. So uh'}, {'start': '913.440', 'end': '918.800', 'text': 'uh you know I was taking the the course'}, {'start': '915.440', 'end': '921.519', 'text': 'uh at uh the Shroud Studies at uh uh the'}, {'start': '918.800', 'end': '925.040', 'text': 'Pontipical University and um so I wanted'}, {'start': '921.519', 'end': '927.440', 'text': 'to write a paper and um uh what started'}, {'start': '925.040', 'end': '930.800', 'text': "off well I'll write with the idea of the"}, {'start': '927.440', 'end': '934.480', 'text': 'Jewish burial practices uh you know what'}, {'start': '930.800', 'end': '938.399', 'text': 'developed from a uh a five to 10 page'}, {'start': '934.480', 'end': '940.399', 'text': 'concepts ends up 113 pages been there'}, {'start': '938.399', 'end': '943.040', 'text': 'done that and just kind of putting it'}, {'start': '940.399', 'end': '944.480', 'text': 'putting it in there you know uh and uh'}, {'start': '943.040', 'end': '946.880', 'text': 'really trying to approach it from an'}, {'start': '944.480', 'end': '950.000', 'text': 'apologetic uh perspective. So I covered'}, {'start': '946.880', 'end': '952.399', 'text': 'the Jewish burial practices um uh'}, {'start': '950.000', 'end': '956.959', 'text': 'suggestions on what a shroud would be'}, {'start': '952.399', 'end': '958.959', 'text': "based upon a person's height. Um and and"}, {'start': '956.959', 'end': '961.600', 'text': 'again we only know this from a few that'}, {'start': '958.959', 'end': '964.079', 'text': 'we have uh outside of the leather'}, {'start': '961.600', 'end': '967.360', 'text': 'shrouds. We we have uh uh several of'}, {'start': '964.079', 'end': '969.600', 'text': 'those. But um uh you know so I wanted to'}, {'start': '967.360', 'end': '971.440', 'text': 'look at it that way as an evangelical'}, {'start': '969.600', 'end': '974.079', 'text': 'and and as a Christian I wanted to see'}, {'start': '971.440', 'end': '977.120', 'text': 'what the scripture said. So we I also go'}, {'start': '974.079', 'end': '980.560', 'text': 'through uh the scriptural accounts uh in'}, {'start': '977.120', 'end': '983.360', 'text': 'the gospels. Um then are there any other'}, {'start': '980.560', 'end': '985.399', 'text': 'possibilities of other references uh in'}, {'start': '983.360', 'end': '989.279', 'text': 'the New Testament? Uh I do think that'}, {'start': '985.399', 'end': '991.639', 'text': 'Galatians 3:1 is a reference uh to the'}, {'start': '989.279', 'end': '995.040', 'text': 'shroud. you know that uh before whose'}, {'start': '991.639', 'end': '996.720', 'text': 'eyes Jesus Christ evidently uh you know'}, {'start': '995.040', 'end': '998.959', 'text': 'crucified. Well well how did these'}, {'start': '996.720', 'end': '1001.440', 'text': 'Galatians see'}, {'start': '998.959', 'end': '1004.000', 'text': "uh the crucified Christ? Uh it's either"}, {'start': '1001.440', 'end': '1006.320', 'text': 'through the eye of faith or they had'}, {'start': '1004.000', 'end': '1008.480', 'text': 'something in front of them that they'}, {'start': '1006.320', 'end': '1010.240', 'text': "could see and uh I think there's good"}, {'start': '1008.480', 'end': '1013.759', 'text': 'evidence to say that that was that was'}, {'start': '1010.240', 'end': '1016.639', 'text': 'the uh burial cloth of Christ uh at that'}, {'start': '1013.759', 'end': '1018.959', 'text': 'time. Yeah. Absolutely. So, I had all'}, {'start': '1016.639', 'end': '1021.600', 'text': "that in there. And then, um, I've been"}, {'start': '1018.959', 'end': '1024.799', 'text': 'very interested in, um, Gary'}, {'start': '1021.600', 'end': '1027.600', 'text': "Habbermass's um, he gives five minimal"}, {'start': '1024.799', 'end': '1030.319', 'text': 'facts for the resurrection of Christ.'}, {'start': '1027.600', 'end': '1033.240', 'text': 'And these are based upon consensus. Uh,'}, {'start': '1030.319', 'end': '1036.480', 'text': 'so it has to be where 90% of the'}, {'start': '1033.240', 'end': '1039.280', 'text': 'scholars agree upon uh, each of these'}, {'start': '1036.480', 'end': '1040.959', 'text': 'these these facts. And so I said, okay,'}, {'start': '1039.280', 'end': '1043.760', 'text': "well, let's do that to the shroud. Let's"}, {'start': '1040.959', 'end': '1045.360', 'text': "find something where there's 90% uh, of"}, {'start': '1043.760', 'end': '1047.600', 'text': 'agreement. And so I took five things'}, {'start': '1045.360', 'end': '1051.600', 'text': 'where there were 90% or more. Sometimes'}, {'start': '1047.600', 'end': '1054.080', 'text': "it's 95, sometimes it's 99% uh among uh"}, {'start': '1051.600', 'end': '1057.280', 'text': 'scholars and and scientists and and'}, {'start': '1054.080', 'end': '1060.240', 'text': 'historians wanting to to not just do the'}, {'start': '1057.280', 'end': '1062.400', 'text': 'calculus there. I then added to that uh'}, {'start': '1060.240', 'end': '1064.720', 'text': 'I I live in Lebanon near Lebanon, Ohio,'}, {'start': '1062.400', 'end': '1066.720', 'text': "and there's a racetrack. So a lot of"}, {'start': '1064.720', 'end': '1068.559', 'text': 'people think in terms of odds and so I'}, {'start': '1066.720', 'end': '1071.520', 'text': 'said, okay, well, let me let me consider'}, {'start': '1068.559', 'end': '1075.520', 'text': 'the odds here as well. And so uh I then'}, {'start': '1071.520', 'end': '1078.320', 'text': 'did an odds calculus and then as a uh an'}, {'start': '1075.520', 'end': '1081.280', 'text': "apologist I'm very interested in basian"}, {'start': '1078.320', 'end': '1085.960', 'text': 'uh theorem and bas basian probability'}, {'start': '1081.280', 'end': '1089.520', 'text': 'and uh Dr. um uh Bruce uh Babas at'}, {'start': '1085.960', 'end': '1091.919', 'text': 'uh the Pontipical University and then at'}, {'start': '1089.520', 'end': '1095.200', 'text': 'teaches mathematics at uh uh the'}, {'start': '1091.919', 'end': '1096.720', 'text': 'University of Turan. Um I in his class'}, {'start': '1095.200', 'end': '1098.240', 'text': 'he brought in some of that and that'}, {'start': '1096.720', 'end': '1099.520', 'text': 'really caught my attention. So I'}, {'start': '1098.240', 'end': '1103.440', 'text': "thought, well, that'd be a good way to"}, {'start': '1099.520', 'end': '1106.320', 'text': "conclude this paper. And um so that's"}, {'start': '1103.440', 'end': '1108.799', 'text': 'where we were at. Yeah. So uh so what do'}, {'start': '1106.320', 'end': '1110.480', 'text': 'you mean by uh so how did the odds come'}, {'start': '1108.799', 'end': '1113.919', 'text': 'out? How did the Beijian and how did the'}, {'start': '1110.480', 'end': '1116.559', 'text': 'Beijian probability affect that? Okay.'}, {'start': '1113.919', 'end': '1118.160', 'text': "So we've got three different types of"}, {'start': '1116.559', 'end': '1120.960', 'text': 'mathematical'}, {'start': '1118.160', 'end': '1122.480', 'text': 'uh probabilities. And um a good way of'}, {'start': '1120.960', 'end': '1124.799', 'text': 'looking at that uh you know you'}, {'start': '1122.480', 'end': '1126.960', 'text': "mentioned I' I'd done film for 25 years"}, {'start': '1124.799', 'end': '1128.799', 'text': 'made uh faith-based documentaries and'}, {'start': '1126.960', 'end': '1132.200', 'text': 'also film has always been interesting to'}, {'start': '1128.799', 'end': '1135.360', 'text': "me. So suppose there's a great adventure"}, {'start': '1132.200', 'end': '1137.919', 'text': 'movie and and you hear that this movie'}, {'start': '1135.360', 'end': '1139.840', 'text': 'has come out and you get 10 of your'}, {'start': '1137.919', 'end': '1141.919', 'text': "friends together who you've always"}, {'start': '1139.840', 'end': '1145.000', 'text': 'talked to about films and you know that'}, {'start': '1141.919', 'end': '1148.640', 'text': "they're very in informed about films. So"}, {'start': '1145.000', 'end': '1150.720', 'text': 'they say nine of the 10 say, "Man, that'}, {'start': '1148.640', 'end': '1152.559', 'text': "is the best action movie I've ever"}, {'start': '1150.720', 'end': '1154.240', 'text': 'seen." And one of them says, "Yeah, it'}, {'start': '1152.559', 'end': '1155.280', 'text': 'was really good, but you know, I I I can'}, {'start': '1154.240', 'end': '1158.400', 'text': 'think of some better." Because there\'s'}, {'start': '1155.280', 'end': '1162.160', 'text': "always there's always that guy. Uh well,"}, {'start': '1158.400', 'end': '1164.720', 'text': 'now you have an a consensus'}, {'start': '1162.160', 'end': '1167.600', 'text': 'uh of of people, you know, that you you'}, {'start': '1164.720', 'end': '1168.960', 'text': 'trust on that. Um but now you do a'}, {'start': '1167.600', 'end': '1170.960', 'text': 'little more research and you find out'}, {'start': '1168.960', 'end': '1173.200', 'text': 'that hey, you know, this action movie'}, {'start': '1170.960', 'end': '1175.120', 'text': 'was was directed by one of your favorite'}, {'start': '1173.200', 'end': '1178.080', 'text': 'directors.'}, {'start': '1175.120', 'end': '1182.000', 'text': 'And you have seen I mean the last 12 of'}, {'start': '1178.080', 'end': '1185.200', 'text': 'his action movies were fantastic. Uh you'}, {'start': '1182.000', 'end': '1190.559', 'text': 'have to go way back to find the 13th one'}, {'start': '1185.200', 'end': '1194.400', 'text': "that wasn't. So now your odds are 12 to"}, {'start': '1190.559', 'end': '1196.480', 'text': 'one uh that this is going to be a great'}, {'start': '1194.400', 'end': '1199.919', 'text': "movie. You've got a consensus of your"}, {'start': '1196.480', 'end': '1201.520', 'text': "friends. You've got your odds calculated"}, {'start': '1199.919', 'end': '1203.840', 'text': "together. You know you're looking at say"}, {'start': '1201.520', 'end': '1205.919', 'text': 'okay this this will be great. Basian'}, {'start': '1203.840', 'end': '1208.559', 'text': 'probability is based upon new'}, {'start': '1205.919', 'end': '1210.559', 'text': 'information that comes in. So you say,'}, {'start': '1208.559', 'end': '1213.520', 'text': '"Well, let me double check and see if'}, {'start': '1210.559', 'end': '1215.919', 'text': 'there\'s a trailer." So you watch the'}, {'start': '1213.520', 'end': '1218.400', 'text': 'trailer and you find that maybe there'}, {'start': '1215.919', 'end': '1221.320', 'text': 'are three official trailers and each one'}, {'start': '1218.400', 'end': '1223.840', 'text': 'just draws you more and more into that'}, {'start': '1221.320', 'end': '1226.160', 'text': "film. Well, now you've you've had"}, {'start': '1223.840', 'end': '1227.679', 'text': 'personal experience by seeing a little'}, {'start': '1226.160', 'end': '1230.159', 'text': 'bit of what this film is going to be'}, {'start': '1227.679', 'end': '1233.280', 'text': 'like. So chances are this is going to be'}, {'start': '1230.159', 'end': '1236.240', 'text': 'a great movie. Uh so when we add those'}, {'start': '1233.280', 'end': '1238.039', 'text': 'things together, this is how we we draw'}, {'start': '1236.240', 'end': '1241.280', 'text': 'from a different different'}, {'start': '1238.039', 'end': '1244.480', 'text': 'perspectives. Um so the consensus I I'}, {'start': '1241.280', 'end': '1246.159', 'text': "took five points. Um I'm trying to look"}, {'start': '1244.480', 'end': '1249.600', 'text': "here real fast to see if I've got them"}, {'start': '1246.159', 'end': '1251.679', 'text': 'up on this uh thing. Okay. So so so you'}, {'start': '1249.600', 'end': '1254.880', 'text': 'go into a courtroom and say you have'}, {'start': '1251.679', 'end': '1256.960', 'text': 'five five uh witnesses. So maybe your'}, {'start': '1254.880', 'end': '1259.919', 'text': 'first witness is an art expert comes in'}, {'start': '1256.960', 'end': '1263.120', 'text': 'and testifies and your second uh uh'}, {'start': '1259.919', 'end': '1266.240', 'text': 'witness is a is a blood chemist and'}, {'start': '1263.120', 'end': '1269.200', 'text': 'comes in testifies and your third uh uh'}, {'start': '1266.240', 'end': '1272.320', 'text': 'expert is a historian. Uh then you have'}, {'start': '1269.200', 'end': '1274.200', 'text': 'a a fourth one comes in and maybe'}, {'start': '1272.320', 'end': '1277.679', 'text': "they're uh they know all about"}, {'start': '1274.200', 'end': '1280.640', 'text': 'photography and and what is real art and'}, {'start': '1277.679', 'end': '1283.600', 'text': "what isn't and what what would actually"}, {'start': '1280.640', 'end': '1284.960', 'text': 'make a a photographic image on it. And'}, {'start': '1283.600', 'end': '1288.480', 'text': 'then on your your fifth one, you bring'}, {'start': '1284.960', 'end': '1291.919', 'text': 'in a textile expert. Well, all of these'}, {'start': '1288.480', 'end': '1294.280', 'text': 'are experts together that draw a'}, {'start': '1291.919', 'end': '1297.520', 'text': 'consensus, but each one in their own'}, {'start': '1294.280', 'end': '1299.520', 'text': "field. And uh so that's that's basically"}, {'start': '1297.520', 'end': '1301.919', 'text': 'what I did. I took took the five, you'}, {'start': '1299.520', 'end': '1304.720', 'text': 'know, that that the shroud is not uh'}, {'start': '1301.919', 'end': '1306.000', 'text': 'done by paint or or any art form or'}, {'start': '1304.720', 'end': '1309.280', 'text': "rubbing or something like that. That's"}, {'start': '1306.000', 'end': '1312.080', 'text': 'my art expert. uh we know that there was'}, {'start': '1309.280', 'end': '1314.720', 'text': "blood that's consistent with human blood"}, {'start': '1312.080', 'end': '1319.039', 'text': 'uh on the on the shroud. Uh you know, so'}, {'start': '1314.720', 'end': '1322.559', 'text': "we that's about 95% uh consensus uh in"}, {'start': '1319.039', 'end': '1326.000', 'text': 'agreement with that. U a historian uh'}, {'start': '1322.559', 'end': '1328.159', 'text': 'looking at the uh how the Byzantine art'}, {'start': '1326.000', 'end': '1330.400', 'text': 'uh matches the shroud, you know, and the'}, {'start': '1328.159', 'end': '1332.720', 'text': 'coins and and and and all that was'}, {'start': '1330.400', 'end': '1336.080', 'text': "certain. Well, that you know, that's 90%"}, {'start': '1332.720', 'end': '1337.600', 'text': 'in agreement. Um then then um the'}, {'start': '1336.080', 'end': '1341.039', 'text': 'photographer'}, {'start': '1337.600', 'end': '1344.400', 'text': 'um you know well we know that the shroud'}, {'start': '1341.039', 'end': '1347.280', 'text': 'is not just an image it is a negative'}, {'start': '1344.400', 'end': '1349.919', 'text': 'image so that when you take a photo of'}, {'start': '1347.280', 'end': '1352.280', 'text': 'it the negative becomes the positive.'}, {'start': '1349.919', 'end': '1357.440', 'text': "you know that's uh"}, {'start': '1352.280', 'end': '1359.600', 'text': '99% of uh scholars uh recognize this and'}, {'start': '1357.440', 'end': '1362.000', 'text': 'then uh the textile experts you know'}, {'start': '1359.600', 'end': '1365.520', 'text': 'that that this has got pollen on it and'}, {'start': '1362.000', 'end': '1368.240', 'text': 'soil from Jerusalem and uh the type of'}, {'start': '1365.520', 'end': '1371.120', 'text': 'weave and and all of that combined. So I'}, {'start': '1368.240', 'end': '1374.640', 'text': 'took those five and we combined them and'}, {'start': '1371.120', 'end': '1377.360', 'text': 'with each one your your odds get'}, {'start': '1374.640', 'end': '1379.280', 'text': "stronger. M so if you're playing"}, {'start': '1377.360', 'end': '1381.440', 'text': "roulette, and I don't play roulette, but"}, {'start': '1379.280', 'end': '1384.320', 'text': 'so I had to I had to look this up. Uh'}, {'start': '1381.440', 'end': '1387.679', 'text': 'there are 38 spots on a roulette wheel.'}, {'start': '1384.320', 'end': '1390.320', 'text': 'Uh one zero, a double zero, and then 30'}, {'start': '1387.679', 'end': '1392.400', 'text': '1 through 36. You you put the little'}, {'start': '1390.320', 'end': '1396.400', 'text': 'marble in there, it spins around. Your'}, {'start': '1392.400', 'end': '1400.799', 'text': 'chances of getting that once uh is one'}, {'start': '1396.400', 'end': '1403.200', 'text': "out of 38. That's simple odds. M but to"}, {'start': '1400.799', 'end': '1406.640', 'text': 'get your number that you call five times'}, {'start': '1403.200', 'end': '1411.360', 'text': 'in a row, well now your odds have'}, {'start': '1406.640', 'end': '1416.640', 'text': 'completely shifted u uh it becomes uh'}, {'start': '1411.360', 'end': '1419.520', 'text': 'one out of 15 million to get five times'}, {'start': '1416.640', 'end': '1421.360', 'text': 'in a row. Well, that has something to do'}, {'start': '1419.520', 'end': '1425.039', 'text': 'with it, you know, that that we have a'}, {'start': '1421.360', 'end': '1428.240', 'text': 'consensus of of agreement. uh we look at'}, {'start': '1425.039', 'end': '1431.520', 'text': 'the odds and then I and then introduce'}, {'start': '1428.240', 'end': '1433.120', 'text': 'uh basian probability uh and I took'}, {'start': '1431.520', 'end': '1435.080', 'text': "those five things but I didn't want to"}, {'start': '1433.120', 'end': '1442.640', 'text': 'leave it with just the'}, {'start': '1435.080', 'end': '1445.440', 'text': 'five so I added 25 more uh to that list'}, {'start': '1442.640', 'end': '1448.320', 'text': 'and then I did the opposite of what what'}, {'start': '1445.440', 'end': '1450.960', 'text': 'would it take for a forger'}, {'start': '1448.320', 'end': '1454.080', 'text': 'uh to be able to to do this not just'}, {'start': '1450.960', 'end': '1457.039', 'text': 'five things but 30 things that forger er'}, {'start': '1454.080', 'end': '1458.640', 'text': 'has to get right. When you do the basian'}, {'start': '1457.039', 'end': '1460.799', 'text': "calculus, and again I'm not smart enough"}, {'start': '1458.640', 'end': '1464.320', 'text': 'to do the basian calculus myself. I just'}, {'start': '1460.799', 'end': '1466.720', 'text': 'took the the raw data and put it into a'}, {'start': '1464.320', 'end': '1470.400', 'text': 'program and let the program do the work'}, {'start': '1466.720', 'end': '1473.799', 'text': 'for me. So when when I when I did that'}, {'start': '1470.400', 'end': '1477.200', 'text': 'uh on those those 30 things for a'}, {'start': '1473.799', 'end': '1482.360', 'text': 'forger to to come up with with with that'}, {'start': '1477.200', 'end': '1485.279', 'text': 'I mean how a forger uh 500 years before'}, {'start': '1482.360', 'end': '1489.760', 'text': 'photography comes around knows to make a'}, {'start': '1485.279', 'end': '1496.240', 'text': 'positive negative uh uh before we have'}, {'start': '1489.760', 'end': '1497.440', 'text': 'the uh um uh V8 uh yeah VPA uh 8 uh'}, {'start': '1496.240', 'end': '1499.200', 'text': 'imagery'}, {'start': '1497.440', 'end': '1501.279', 'text': "uh where you're doing the shadowing and"}, {'start': '1499.200', 'end': '1503.600', 'text': 'and stuff to be able to to know to do'}, {'start': '1501.279', 'end': '1506.240', 'text': 'that. A forger who is who is cunning'}, {'start': '1503.600', 'end': '1509.760', 'text': 'enough to be able to put blood on the'}, {'start': '1506.240', 'end': '1512.720', 'text': 'object prior to making the image itself.'}, {'start': '1509.760', 'end': '1514.400', 'text': 'U and then a forger who is so smart that'}, {'start': '1512.720', 'end': '1518.400', 'text': 'they were able to make that on the just'}, {'start': '1514.400', 'end': '1521.200', 'text': 'the outmost microns of that you know. Uh'}, {'start': '1518.400', 'end': '1525.440', 'text': 'so I have 30 of these these things like'}, {'start': '1521.200', 'end': '1530.000', 'text': 'that. The chances of that happening, the'}, {'start': '1525.440', 'end': '1534.240', 'text': 'basian probability told me it was 1 out'}, {'start': '1530.000', 'end': '1538.279', 'text': 'of 10 to the 60th power. If you were to'}, {'start': '1534.240', 'end': '1542.400', 'text': 'cover the earth with sand and then do it'}, {'start': '1538.279', 'end': '1547.360', 'text': '600 octeen millionth I think is what the'}, {'start': '1542.400', 'end': '1551.440', 'text': "term but it's it's uh uh 600 with 27"}, {'start': '1547.360', 'end': '1554.000', 'text': 'zeros times around the earth covering it'}, {'start': '1551.440', 'end': '1556.400', 'text': 'with sand and then to reach in and to'}, {'start': '1554.000', 'end': '1560.000', 'text': 'pull out the one particle that you'}, {'start': '1556.400', 'end': '1563.039', 'text': 'wanted. uh this this becomes uh I think'}, {'start': '1560.000', 'end': '1565.039', 'text': "it's like 1 out of 10 to the 40th power."}, {'start': '1563.039', 'end': '1567.120', 'text': 'It actually then just becomes'}, {'start': '1565.039', 'end': '1568.720', 'text': "impossible. It's it's well the numbers"}, {'start': '1567.120', 'end': '1570.000', 'text': "are so big you can't even figure out"}, {'start': '1568.720', 'end': '1571.520', 'text': "what they are, right? You can't you"}, {'start': '1570.000', 'end': '1574.720', 'text': "can't you can't put your your mind"}, {'start': '1571.520', 'end': '1576.720', 'text': 'around around that. But um that would be'}, {'start': '1574.720', 'end': '1579.760', 'text': 'that would be for the for that forger to'}, {'start': '1576.720', 'end': '1581.919', 'text': 'be able to do those 30 things. But then'}, {'start': '1579.760', 'end': '1585.679', 'text': 'the opposite is true. uh when you have'}, {'start': '1581.919', 'end': '1589.039', 'text': 'the 30 things that the shroud does have'}, {'start': '1585.679', 'end': '1592.720', 'text': 'that that we know, you know, uh that'}, {'start': '1589.039', 'end': '1596.640', 'text': 'speak to it being genuine, uh the odds'}, {'start': '1592.720', 'end': '1596.640', 'text': 'were were uh'}, {'start': '1599.320', 'end': '1604.480', 'text': '99.9999% accurate.'}, {'start': '1602.000', 'end': '1607.679', 'text': "Yeah, it's it's impossible that it's"}, {'start': '1604.480', 'end': '1609.760', 'text': "it's not No, you have to you have to"}, {'start': '1607.679', 'end': '1611.840', 'text': "explain. It's not enough to just dismiss"}, {'start': '1609.760', 'end': '1614.080', 'text': 'information. You have to be able to'}, {'start': '1611.840', 'end': '1616.400', 'text': 'explain. You have to explain why that'}, {'start': '1614.080', 'end': '1619.360', 'text': 'image is there. You have to explain the'}, {'start': '1616.400', 'end': '1622.960', 'text': 'blood. You have to explain the pollen.'}, {'start': '1619.360', 'end': '1626.240', 'text': 'Um and and all of that, you know, so I I'}, {'start': '1622.960', 'end': '1628.240', 'text': 'put all that in my paper and 113 pages'}, {'start': '1626.240', 'end': '1629.919', 'text': 'later.'}, {'start': '1628.240', 'end': '1632.400', 'text': 'Well, you need that many pages just to'}, {'start': '1629.919', 'end': '1635.200', 'text': 'get all the zeros.'}, {'start': '1632.400', 'end': '1637.520', 'text': "That's true."}, {'start': '1635.200', 'end': '1639.279', 'text': 'Yeah. How funny. So, um, well, you know,'}, {'start': '1637.520', 'end': '1642.080', 'text': "it's interesting, uh, now as an"}, {'start': '1639.279', 'end': '1644.400', 'text': 'apologist, of course, uh, you know, when'}, {'start': '1642.080', 'end': '1646.960', 'text': 'you present them with these kinds of'}, {'start': '1644.400', 'end': '1649.120', 'text': "calculations and facts, I'm curious what"}, {'start': '1646.960', 'end': '1651.200', 'text': 'what kind of reaction do you get? Uh,'}, {'start': '1649.120', 'end': '1654.720', 'text': "usually they don't they don't respond. I"}, {'start': '1651.200', 'end': '1658.720', 'text': "I in in preparation, I'm a moderator for"}, {'start': '1654.720', 'end': '1661.760', 'text': 'a a Facebook group that that hosts civil'}, {'start': '1658.720', 'end': '1664.480', 'text': 'debates between uh Christians, atheists,'}, {'start': '1661.760', 'end': '1666.559', 'text': "and agnostics. And I'm one of the"}, {'start': '1664.480', 'end': '1669.279', 'text': 'Christian moderators. We have an atheist'}, {'start': '1666.559', 'end': '1673.039', 'text': 'moderator, an agnostic moderator, and uh'}, {'start': '1669.279', 'end': '1674.760', 'text': 'um we we have rules. So, people have to,'}, {'start': '1673.039', 'end': '1678.240', 'text': 'you know, be friendly in their'}, {'start': '1674.760', 'end': '1680.399', 'text': 'exchanges. I have put up recently some'}, {'start': '1678.240', 'end': '1683.520', 'text': "posts about the the shroud and they're"}, {'start': '1680.399', 'end': '1686.640', 'text': 'just simply not responded to because it'}, {'start': '1683.520', 'end': '1688.720', 'text': "doesn't fit their Yeah. their uh their"}, {'start': '1686.640', 'end': '1690.960', 'text': 'worldview. Yeah. Yeah. Their Right.'}, {'start': '1688.720', 'end': '1694.480', 'text': 'Right. Which an atheism is a worldview.'}, {'start': '1690.960', 'end': '1696.159', 'text': "But uh uh I have had them when I've when"}, {'start': '1694.480', 'end': '1698.159', 'text': "I when I've talked about things like the"}, {'start': '1696.159', 'end': '1702.159', 'text': 'fine-tuning of the universe, you know,'}, {'start': '1698.159', 'end': '1705.760', 'text': "they'll they'll retreat to a multiverse"}, {'start': '1702.159', 'end': '1707.600', 'text': 'uh uh universe uh thought. And then if'}, {'start': '1705.760', 'end': '1710.240', 'text': "that doesn't hold because there's no"}, {'start': '1707.600', 'end': '1713.360', 'text': 'evidence for a multiverse and even if'}, {'start': '1710.240', 'end': '1715.120', 'text': 'you did, you still have to explain where'}, {'start': '1713.360', 'end': '1718.480', 'text': 'does where does all where does all this'}, {'start': '1715.120', 'end': '1720.320', 'text': 'come from? uh and all, but uh you know,'}, {'start': '1718.480', 'end': '1722.720', 'text': "they're dealing with probabilities that"}, {'start': '1720.320', 'end': '1724.960', 'text': 'that are roughly the same. And uh what'}, {'start': '1722.720', 'end': '1726.960', 'text': "I've heard from them on those kind of"}, {'start': '1724.960', 'end': '1728.880', 'text': "things is uh well, there's still a"}, {'start': '1726.960', 'end': '1729.960', 'text': "chance. I'm I'm reminded of that movie"}, {'start': '1728.880', 'end': '1732.320', 'text': 'Dumb and'}, {'start': '1729.960', 'end': '1734.320', 'text': "Dumber. So, you're telling me there's a"}, {'start': '1732.320', 'end': '1736.080', 'text': 'chance?'}, {'start': '1734.320', 'end': '1737.679', 'text': "That's right. I wouldn't kiss you for a"}, {'start': '1736.080', 'end': '1740.720', 'text': "million dollars. So, you're telling me"}, {'start': '1737.679', 'end': '1743.919', 'text': "there's a chance? Right."}, {'start': '1740.720', 'end': '1746.960', 'text': 'Uh and and sometimes I I I get that kind'}, {'start': '1743.919', 'end': '1749.200', 'text': 'of kind of a response. But um skeptics'}, {'start': '1746.960', 'end': '1752.679', 'text': 'are really great about science until you'}, {'start': '1749.200', 'end': '1755.279', 'text': 'present the science. Yeah. Yeah. How'}, {'start': '1752.679', 'end': '1756.880', 'text': 'funny. Well, let me uh that that is a'}, {'start': '1755.279', 'end': '1759.520', 'text': "that's a great explanation, you know,"}, {'start': '1756.880', 'end': '1762.399', 'text': 'and I hate to say it. I uh I studied'}, {'start': '1759.520', 'end': '1765.279', 'text': 'basian probability in in college maybe'}, {'start': '1762.399', 'end': '1767.840', 'text': "for a couple of weeks and uh it it's"}, {'start': '1765.279', 'end': '1770.000', 'text': "it's uh it's hard to explain and not"}, {'start': '1767.840', 'end': '1771.600', 'text': 'that I even remember it but uh that was'}, {'start': '1770.000', 'end': '1774.159', 'text': 'actually very good because it really'}, {'start': '1771.600', 'end': '1776.320', 'text': 'does you know point out you know when'}, {'start': '1774.159', 'end': '1778.559', 'text': 'you you start even with five dimensions'}, {'start': '1776.320', 'end': '1781.279', 'text': "but then you there's really 30 there's"}, {'start': '1778.559', 'end': '1782.720', 'text': 'probably 50 or 100 dimensions that you'}, {'start': '1781.279', 'end': '1786.559', 'text': 'know that that you really need to'}, {'start': '1782.720', 'end': '1788.159', 'text': "explain and and it's pretty uh it's it"}, {'start': '1786.559', 'end': '1790.480', 'text': 'really then you know gets down to that'}, {'start': '1788.159', 'end': '1794.320', 'text': 'that one grain of sand out of however'}, {'start': '1790.480', 'end': '1797.279', 'text': 'deep that sand was. So fascinating. Um'}, {'start': '1794.320', 'end': '1799.279', 'text': 'now one I I did want to go back uh to'}, {'start': '1797.279', 'end': '1801.799', 'text': "the uh the burial and then I think we're"}, {'start': '1799.279', 'end': '1805.200', 'text': 'going to have to close it off, but'}, {'start': '1801.799', 'end': '1808.480', 'text': 'um what is your thinking as to whether'}, {'start': '1805.200', 'end': '1811.919', 'text': "the body uh Jesus's body was washed or"}, {'start': '1808.480', 'end': '1816.080', 'text': 'not uh prior to being uh buried or or'}, {'start': '1811.919', 'end': '1817.960', 'text': 'in? Well, he was a crucified man. So uh'}, {'start': '1816.080', 'end': '1820.720', 'text': 'it was important to gather all that'}, {'start': '1817.960', 'end': '1823.039', 'text': 'blood. Uh and the Mishna talks about'}, {'start': '1820.720', 'end': '1825.200', 'text': 'that if a person has suffered a violent'}, {'start': '1823.039', 'end': '1827.120', 'text': "death, they're going to gather that"}, {'start': '1825.200', 'end': '1828.880', 'text': 'blood. The blood is going to be buried'}, {'start': '1827.120', 'end': '1830.720', 'text': "with them. I don't think they had enough"}, {'start': '1828.880', 'end': '1834.799', 'text': 'time. Uh if they did anything, it would'}, {'start': '1830.720', 'end': '1837.279', 'text': 'have been a very simple uh uh washing.'}, {'start': '1834.799', 'end': '1839.559', 'text': 'Um but I think what they what they had'}, {'start': '1837.279', 'end': '1841.679', 'text': 'enough time to do was to get the'}, {'start': '1839.559', 'end': '1845.039', 'text': 'materials, get permission to get the'}, {'start': '1841.679', 'end': '1848.240', 'text': 'body, carry the body to the grave. uh to'}, {'start': '1845.039', 'end': '1851.760', 'text': 'go in and to place the uh spices around'}, {'start': '1848.240', 'end': '1853.600', 'text': 'the body, cover up the body, uh to take'}, {'start': '1851.760', 'end': '1857.760', 'text': 'the facecloth. They would not have left'}, {'start': '1853.600', 'end': '1860.240', 'text': 'a bloodied facecloth on on a a corpse.'}, {'start': '1857.760', 'end': '1862.240', 'text': 'That would have been disrespectful. Uh'}, {'start': '1860.240', 'end': '1864.000', 'text': 'they might have tied it uh as some'}, {'start': '1862.240', 'end': '1868.000', 'text': 'think. They could have put it off to the'}, {'start': '1864.000', 'end': '1870.080', 'text': "side. Uh we're not we're not 100% told."}, {'start': '1868.000', 'end': '1873.520', 'text': "We're told that when John goes in there,"}, {'start': '1870.080', 'end': '1875.919', 'text': "he sees it. Um, here's a thought. At"}, {'start': '1873.520', 'end': '1878.360', 'text': 'Young Hikor, the high priest would put'}, {'start': '1875.919', 'end': '1881.600', 'text': 'on special garments, would go in and'}, {'start': '1878.360', 'end': '1884.559', 'text': 'sacrifice the goat, and his garments'}, {'start': '1881.600', 'end': '1887.520', 'text': 'would be covered with blood, and then he'}, {'start': '1884.559', 'end': '1891.039', 'text': 'would fold those garments and set them'}, {'start': '1887.520', 'end': '1894.159', 'text': 'aside. I do think whenever uh John goes'}, {'start': '1891.039', 'end': '1897.399', 'text': 'and he sees that facecloth folded and'}, {'start': '1894.159', 'end': '1900.080', 'text': "laid aside and and all that's a"}, {'start': '1897.399', 'end': '1903.200', 'text': 'testimonial to Jesus being the high'}, {'start': '1900.080', 'end': '1906.159', 'text': 'priest uh for our day of atonement.'}, {'start': '1903.200', 'end': '1908.159', 'text': "Yeah. Yeah. I well I um and I don't know"}, {'start': '1906.159', 'end': '1910.399', 'text': "if you've read anything from uh Caesar"}, {'start': '1908.159', 'end': '1912.880', 'text': 'Barta but he really goes into detail in'}, {'start': '1910.399', 'end': '1916.880', 'text': 'the timelines of of that whole process'}, {'start': '1912.880', 'end': '1919.120', 'text': 'there and and uh it certainly gets uh it'}, {'start': '1916.880', 'end': '1921.519', 'text': 'it it certainly seems like it gets set'}, {'start': '1919.120', 'end': '1923.200', 'text': 'aside. I mean even the writing in John'}, {'start': '1921.519', 'end': '1925.279', 'text': 'uh talks about it being separate from'}, {'start': '1923.200', 'end': '1928.000', 'text': "the other cloths and I don't remember"}, {'start': '1925.279', 'end': '1930.080', 'text': 'the exact wording but uh certainly you'}, {'start': '1928.000', 'end': '1932.559', 'text': "know that's the case. Um, you know, one"}, {'start': '1930.080', 'end': '1935.519', 'text': 'thing too though, um, so they collect'}, {'start': '1932.559', 'end': '1938.640', 'text': 'the blood, uh, as much as possible. So'}, {'start': '1935.519', 'end': '1940.000', 'text': 'they put the facecloth over his face to,'}, {'start': '1938.640', 'end': '1943.039', 'text': "uh, you know, so that the blood doesn't"}, {'start': '1940.000', 'end': '1945.200', 'text': 'get lost. It it would seem like there'}, {'start': '1943.039', 'end': '1946.799', 'text': 'would have been blood everywhere. I'}, {'start': '1945.200', 'end': '1949.440', 'text': 'mean, there would have been blood on the'}, {'start': '1946.799', 'end': '1951.600', 'text': 'ground. And so would they have tried to'}, {'start': '1949.440', 'end': '1954.000', 'text': 'collect that as well, or would they just'}, {'start': '1951.600', 'end': '1956.000', 'text': 'get what they could and then, you know,'}, {'start': '1954.000', 'end': '1959.039', 'text': 'carry or transport the body in some'}, {'start': '1956.000', 'end': '1961.440', 'text': 'fashion over to the tomb? um they would'}, {'start': '1959.039', 'end': '1963.519', 'text': 'gather as much as they could. Uh if you'}, {'start': '1961.440', 'end': '1968.159', 'text': 'remember uh and Gibson did a great job'}, {'start': '1963.519', 'end': '1971.360', 'text': 'on this in the Passion uh where uh Mary'}, {'start': '1968.159', 'end': '1974.559', 'text': 'is is taking those claws and wiping up'}, {'start': '1971.360', 'end': '1978.080', 'text': 'the blood off the stones where where'}, {'start': '1974.559', 'end': '1981.600', 'text': 'Jesus has been beaten. Uh that that'}, {'start': '1978.080', 'end': '1985.279', 'text': 'would have been uh something that the'}, {'start': '1981.600', 'end': '1986.720', 'text': 'Jews would have done. Um, so there there'}, {'start': '1985.279', 'end': '1988.960', 'text': 'could have been some other cloths that'}, {'start': '1986.720', 'end': '1991.600', 'text': "were involved uh with that. There's"}, {'start': '1988.960', 'end': '1994.960', 'text': 'definitely the binding cloths, you know,'}, {'start': '1991.600', 'end': '1997.600', 'text': 'uh, with that. And contrary to what some'}, {'start': '1994.960', 'end': '2000.240', 'text': 'people think, dead bodies do bleed. When'}, {'start': '1997.600', 'end': '2002.960', 'text': 'you put holes in a body, uh, blood comes'}, {'start': '2000.240', 'end': '2005.519', 'text': "out. Uh, now it doesn't come out like"}, {'start': '2002.960', 'end': '2006.880', 'text': "like it does. And and of course that's"}, {'start': '2005.519', 'end': '2008.720', 'text': 'one of the things about the shroud too'}, {'start': '2006.880', 'end': '2010.480', 'text': 'is we were able to determine that'}, {'start': '2008.720', 'end': '2013.440', 'text': "there's active blood and postmortem"}, {'start': '2010.480', 'end': '2016.720', 'text': 'blood uh because of clotting and and and'}, {'start': '2013.440', 'end': '2019.039', 'text': 'all and it would take about depending on'}, {'start': '2016.720', 'end': '2020.559', 'text': 'how deep the wounds were. Uh obviously'}, {'start': '2019.039', 'end': '2022.159', 'text': 'when you when you have wounds in the'}, {'start': '2020.559', 'end': '2024.559', 'text': 'side that go all the way through or or'}, {'start': '2022.159', 'end': '2028.080', 'text': 'in the side or of the body and then in'}, {'start': '2024.559', 'end': '2031.840', 'text': 'the hands or in the palms um you would'}, {'start': '2028.080', 'end': '2034.720', 'text': 'you would definitely have um more blood'}, {'start': '2031.840', 'end': '2036.080', 'text': 'there as the scourging would have caused'}, {'start': '2034.720', 'end': '2039.519', 'text': 'a great deal of blood and they would'}, {'start': '2036.080', 'end': '2042.240', 'text': 'have tried to gather that up but um some'}, {'start': '2039.519', 'end': '2044.159', 'text': "of that would have dried while he's up"}, {'start': '2042.240', 'end': '2046.399', 'text': 'on the cross.'}, {'start': '2044.159', 'end': '2048.079', 'text': 'Right. Right. Yeah. Very interesting.'}, {'start': '2046.399', 'end': '2049.919', 'text': 'Well, and that that you know, it all'}, {'start': '2048.079', 'end': '2051.679', 'text': 'makes sense and it also, you know, the'}, {'start': '2049.919', 'end': '2053.280', 'text': 'other thing is it correlates with the'}, {'start': '2051.679', 'end': '2055.520', 'text': 'with the writings that are in the four'}, {'start': '2053.280', 'end': '2059.839', 'text': 'gospels about the the burial and the and'}, {'start': '2055.520', 'end': '2061.599', 'text': "the and or the the passion. Um Tom, I'd"}, {'start': '2059.839', 'end': '2063.839', 'text': "love to keep going, but I've"}, {'start': '2061.599', 'end': '2065.919', 'text': "unfortunately uh you know, there's only"}, {'start': '2063.839', 'end': '2068.079', 'text': 'so much time in the day and uh I could'}, {'start': '2065.919', 'end': '2070.560', 'text': 'we I think we could talk for hours.'}, {'start': '2068.079', 'end': '2072.000', 'text': "you've done some amazing work and really"}, {'start': '2070.560', 'end': '2074.240', 'text': 'very interesting in terms of'}, {'start': '2072.000', 'end': '2076.879', 'text': 'understanding the Jewish burial'}, {'start': '2074.240', 'end': '2078.720', 'text': 'practices and uh and then how Jesus may'}, {'start': '2076.879', 'end': '2081.040', 'text': "have been buried and how it's then"}, {'start': '2078.720', 'end': '2083.679', 'text': 'reflected in in the shroud and uh and'}, {'start': '2081.040', 'end': '2086.159', 'text': 'some of the other uh talking you know uh'}, {'start': '2083.679', 'end': '2087.919', 'text': 'writings from the from the gospels. Uh'}, {'start': '2086.159', 'end': '2090.159', 'text': 'very very interesting. Really appreciate'}, {'start': '2087.919', 'end': '2091.839', 'text': 'it. Well, thank you. And uh anyone who'}, {'start': '2090.159', 'end': '2094.800', 'text': "wants to read the paper, it's up on my"}, {'start': '2091.839', 'end': '2096.720', 'text': "website uh on my blog site. It's free. I"}, {'start': '2094.800', 'end': '2098.160', 'text': "don't charge for anything. uh you just"}, {'start': '2096.720', 'end': '2101.359', 'text': "go down, you see it's called Sacred"}, {'start': '2098.160', 'end': '2103.040', 'text': "Threads and um uh you know, you're"}, {'start': '2101.359', 'end': '2105.599', 'text': 'invited to to read it and let me know'}, {'start': '2103.040', 'end': '2106.960', 'text': 'what you think. Yeah, absolutely. Um'}, {'start': '2105.599', 'end': '2108.320', 'text': "I've looked through a little bit of it."}, {'start': '2106.960', 'end': '2109.839', 'text': "I didn't get all the way through it. I"}, {'start': '2108.320', 'end': '2111.839', 'text': 'apologize for that, but I definitely'}, {'start': '2109.839', 'end': '2114.160', 'text': "will. It's uh it's definitely an"}, {'start': '2111.839', 'end': '2116.800', 'text': 'important uh piece of the puzzle as'}, {'start': '2114.160', 'end': '2118.400', 'text': "we're all shroudists trying to"}, {'start': '2116.800', 'end': '2120.400', 'text': 'understand, you know, all of the'}, {'start': '2118.400', 'end': '2122.560', 'text': "different pieces that go together that's"}, {'start': '2120.400', 'end': '2124.880', 'text': 'represented in the shroud. Tom, thank'}, {'start': '2122.560', 'end': '2127.200', 'text': 'you so much. Really appreciate it. And'}, {'start': '2124.880', 'end': '2131.240', 'text': 'uh and again what is the uh the the the'}, {'start': '2127.200', 'end': '2135.640', 'text': 'URL for your for your website? So'}, {'start': '2131.240', 'end': '2140.160', 'text': "www.tom's theology all one word"}, {'start': '2135.640', 'end': '2141.800', 'text': 'um.blog. So uh tomms theology blog.'}, {'start': '2140.160', 'end': '2143.760', 'text': "Fantastic. Tom's"}, {'start': '2141.800', 'end': '2145.359', 'text': 'Theology.blog. Well, thank you so much.'}, {'start': '2143.760', 'end': '2148.160', 'text': 'I really appreciate it. And for the'}, {'start': '2145.359', 'end': '2151.280', 'text': 'audience, uh certainly please stay tuned'}, {'start': '2148.160', 'end': '2154.160', 'text': 'for many other videos in this uh series'}, {'start': '2151.280', 'end': '2155.839', 'text': 'of the backstory on the Shroud of Trin.'}, {'start': '2154.160', 'end': '2158.079', 'text': 'And if you like this video, please rate'}, {'start': '2155.839', 'end': '2160.320', 'text': 'it with five stars. Tom, thank you so'}, {'start': '2158.079', 'end': '2164.040', 'text': 'much. I really appreciate it. Thank you.'}, {'start': '2160.320', 'end': '2164.040', 'text': 'I appreciate it, too.'}]