Megan Tamati-Quennell on curating ‘ihi’ at Sharjah Biennial 16 and indigenous art practice
STIR
[{'start': '24.080', 'end': '29.039', 'text': 'Thank you for joining us today, Megan.'}, {'start': '26.800', 'end': '31.920', 'text': 'uh to start with could you talk through'}, {'start': '29.039', 'end': '34.719', 'text': 'some of the key concepts that inform Ehi'}, {'start': '31.920', 'end': '36.719', 'text': 'your project at the Sharaja'}, {'start': '34.719', 'end': '39.920', 'text': 'I suppose I wanted to start with talking'}, {'start': '36.719', 'end': '42.719', 'text': 'about the concept of EHI or the title so'}, {'start': '39.920', 'end': '45.640', 'text': 'EHI is really a mai term which means'}, {'start': '42.719', 'end': '50.480', 'text': "like positive energy it's really like"}, {'start': '45.640', 'end': '53.199', 'text': "upbeat and um it's really linked to both"}, {'start': '50.480', 'end': '54.199', 'text': 'the body and well-being as well as'}, {'start': '53.199', 'end': '56.800', 'text': 'things like'}, {'start': '54.199', 'end': '62.559', 'text': "spirituality it's quite an essential"}, {'start': '56.800', 'end': '64.640', 'text': 'kind of um source I suppose and um it'}, {'start': '62.559', 'end': '66.640', 'text': "says in the guide book that it's a"}, {'start': '64.640', 'end': '68.960', 'text': 'physical rather than a spiritual force'}, {'start': '66.640', 'end': '71.520', 'text': "that should have said psychic so it's a"}, {'start': '68.960', 'end': '74.880', 'text': 'psychic force as opposed to a spiritual'}, {'start': '71.520', 'end': '77.040', 'text': 'force and it really is about power but'}, {'start': '74.880', 'end': '80.000', 'text': "it's really about also about magnetism"}, {'start': '77.040', 'end': '82.799', 'text': 'or charm or and so I called the show'}, {'start': '80.000', 'end': '86.000', 'text': 'Ehey because I really wanted to I'}, {'start': '82.799', 'end': '89.280', 'text': 'thought it embodied the kind of ethos of'}, {'start': '86.000', 'end': '92.960', 'text': 'the project and a number of the works'}, {'start': '89.280', 'end': '97.040', 'text': 'that have an eh an eh is like a might be'}, {'start': '92.960', 'end': '99.920', 'text': "a response to something um yeah and it's"}, {'start': '97.040', 'end': '102.400', 'text': 'really like awe or wonder those kinds of'}, {'start': '99.920', 'end': '104.960', 'text': "ideas so I wanted to start that that's"}, {'start': '102.400', 'end': '107.360', 'text': 'so ehei kind of encompassed a whole lot'}, {'start': '104.960', 'end': '110.159', 'text': 'of things at one stage it was called'}, {'start': '107.360', 'end': '112.720', 'text': 'radiance which is similar in terms of'}, {'start': '110.159', 'end': '115.280', 'text': 'like things that are positive going out'}, {'start': '112.720', 'end': '116.880', 'text': 'and was based on a poem that Daniel Boyd'}, {'start': '115.280', 'end': '119.280', 'text': 'had written called recalulcitrant'}, {'start': '116.880', 'end': '121.280', 'text': 'radiance which were almost opposite kind'}, {'start': '119.280', 'end': '123.439', 'text': 'of ideas. One something that was'}, {'start': '121.280', 'end': '125.280', 'text': 'entrenched and kind of fixed and'}, {'start': '123.439', 'end': '128.440', 'text': 'something that was very expansive and'}, {'start': '125.280', 'end': '131.599', 'text': 'open and I like I like the duality of'}, {'start': '128.440', 'end': '133.840', 'text': 'things. Um the other key concepts of of'}, {'start': '131.599', 'end': '136.040', 'text': 'course the idea of land and place is'}, {'start': '133.840', 'end': '138.879', 'text': 'really important to me and to the'}, {'start': '136.040', 'end': '141.280', 'text': 'project. Um I think because I worked'}, {'start': '138.879', 'end': '144.879', 'text': 'with a large number of First Nations'}, {'start': '141.280', 'end': '148.000', 'text': 'people but from across not not just from'}, {'start': '144.879', 'end': '150.560', 'text': 'one locality and the only commonality'}, {'start': '148.000', 'end': '153.040', 'text': 'really between First Nations people is'}, {'start': '150.560', 'end': '155.680', 'text': 'this relationship with land and place'}, {'start': '153.040', 'end': '158.879', 'text': 'but in an in an abstract sense rather'}, {'start': '155.680', 'end': '160.440', 'text': 'than necessarily being you know you can'}, {'start': '158.879', 'end': '162.720', 'text': 'be off'}, {'start': '160.440', 'end': '164.400', 'text': "country but you don't necessarily need"}, {'start': '162.720', 'end': '166.239', 'text': "to live on country. There's a notion"}, {'start': '164.400', 'end': '167.400', 'text': "that people carry with them that there's"}, {'start': '166.239', 'end': '170.000', 'text': 'a'}, {'start': '167.400', 'end': '173.040', 'text': 'particular set of coordinates that you'}, {'start': '170.000', 'end': '176.319', 'text': 'kind of relate to or you come from or'}, {'start': '173.040', 'end': '178.879', 'text': 'that you um you know and different'}, {'start': '176.319', 'end': '181.519', 'text': 'people in that pro in this project talk'}, {'start': '178.879', 'end': '184.959', 'text': 'about that. So for example, someone like'}, {'start': '181.519', 'end': '188.159', 'text': 'Capuani Lang in all her photographs of'}, {'start': '184.959', 'end': '191.280', 'text': 'all the Wahi Wahi Kapu or Wahitapu the'}, {'start': '188.159', 'end': '193.519', 'text': 'sacred sites across Maui, she talks'}, {'start': '191.280', 'end': '195.760', 'text': 'about them as ancestral storied'}, {'start': '193.519', 'end': '198.560', 'text': 'landscapes. So landscapes that are'}, {'start': '195.760', 'end': '202.800', 'text': 'filled with ancestral stories and'}, {'start': '198.560', 'end': '205.920', 'text': 'meaning and um that have accumulated'}, {'start': '202.800', 'end': '209.360', 'text': "over time. And then there's a counter"}, {'start': '205.920', 'end': '212.680', 'text': 'well not a counter but um uh another an'}, {'start': '209.360', 'end': '215.920', 'text': 'overlapping kind of idea which was that'}, {'start': '212.680', 'end': '217.920', 'text': 'um uh geography as structure because I'}, {'start': '215.920', 'end': '220.640', 'text': "really didn't want to just kind of bring"}, {'start': '217.920', 'end': '223.120', 'text': 'things and plant them here. I really'}, {'start': '220.640', 'end': '225.360', 'text': 'wanted to think about um geography'}, {'start': '223.120', 'end': '227.360', 'text': 'structure, how geography informs the way'}, {'start': '225.360', 'end': '230.239', 'text': 'in which we might operate and how we'}, {'start': '227.360', 'end': '232.959', 'text': 'might live and the particular geography'}, {'start': '230.239', 'end': '235.440', 'text': 'of Sharah, the lands and cultures and'}, {'start': '232.959', 'end': '238.840', 'text': 'people that exist here and really to'}, {'start': '235.440', 'end': '242.400', 'text': 'look at those synergies or resonances'}, {'start': '238.840', 'end': '244.720', 'text': 'between the the ideas and the work that'}, {'start': '242.400', 'end': '246.799', 'text': 'was coming and th those kind of'}, {'start': '244.720', 'end': '248.959', 'text': 'cross-cultural kind of parallels. So'}, {'start': '246.799', 'end': '251.599', 'text': 'that was important. And then the big'}, {'start': '248.959', 'end': '254.080', 'text': 'large idea. I had so many ideas it'}, {'start': '251.599', 'end': '256.639', 'text': "wasn't funny. Um the big large idea"}, {'start': '254.080', 'end': '258.880', 'text': 'because I just when I first started, you'}, {'start': '256.639', 'end': '262.479', 'text': 'know, humanity is an incomplete project'}, {'start': '258.880', 'end': '265.440', 'text': "of Jimmy Durham's kind of adage. I"}, {'start': '262.479', 'end': '268.000', 'text': 'wanted to use that because I liked how'}, {'start': '265.440', 'end': '271.199', 'text': 'broad and expansive it was and it gave'}, {'start': '268.000', 'end': '274.000', 'text': 'me a very open canvas to kind of work'}, {'start': '271.199', 'end': '276.080', 'text': "with and people's relationship to I"}, {'start': '274.000', 'end': '278.560', 'text': 'wanted to talk about humanity, you know,'}, {'start': '276.080', 'end': '281.440', 'text': 'in its broadest terms. Even though as I'}, {'start': '278.560', 'end': '284.040', 'text': 'said it comes down further and I did'}, {'start': '281.440', 'end': '287.360', 'text': 'focus on first nations artists not'}, {'start': '284.040', 'end': '290.000', 'text': 'exclusively however um humanity is'}, {'start': '287.360', 'end': '293.040', 'text': 'really important to all of us and the'}, {'start': '290.000', 'end': '295.759', 'text': 'way in which things operate and the idea'}, {'start': '293.040', 'end': '298.639', 'text': "that it's incomplete and that we're"}, {'start': '295.759', 'end': '300.320', 'text': 'still struggling to kind of shift and'}, {'start': '298.639', 'end': '303.520', 'text': "change things. And that's also where"}, {'start': '300.320', 'end': '306.960', 'text': 'that idea of um collective restlessness'}, {'start': '303.520', 'end': '310.560', 'text': 'with the status quo came in because the'}, {'start': '306.960', 'end': '312.720', 'text': 'idea of um I think impermanence I'}, {'start': '310.560', 'end': '314.880', 'text': 'suppose which is very Buddhist I suppose'}, {'start': '312.720', 'end': '318.240', 'text': 'but the idea of impermanence and things'}, {'start': '314.880', 'end': '320.479', 'text': 'constantly changing and our desire to'}, {'start': '318.240', 'end': '323.840', 'text': 'constantly change things so that we'}, {'start': '320.479', 'end': '327.440', 'text': "don't stay in the same kind of I don't"}, {'start': '323.840', 'end': '329.600', 'text': "know um position that we're in or the"}, {'start': '327.440', 'end': '332.560', 'text': 'things that are wanting to change things'}, {'start': '329.600', 'end': '336.160', 'text': 'for the better and you know on behalf of'}, {'start': '332.560', 'end': '339.360', 'text': "humanity all of us and as I said I'm I"}, {'start': '336.160', 'end': '344.120', 'text': 'like to kind of work in the abstract and'}, {'start': '339.360', 'end': '344.120', 'text': 'I like working with very big ideas.'}, {'start': '348.320', 'end': '353.680', 'text': 'I wanted to ask you about uh some of the'}, {'start': '351.440', 'end': '356.560', 'text': 'organizing principles the five of you'}, {'start': '353.680', 'end': '359.199', 'text': 'established um like the like the lexicon'}, {'start': '356.560', 'end': '361.840', 'text': 'of terms that you had. Yeah. uh where'}, {'start': '359.199', 'end': '365.600', 'text': 'you had spatial and temporal references'}, {'start': '361.840', 'end': '368.800', 'text': 'like uh earth, water or terrain or and'}, {'start': '365.600', 'end': '371.600', 'text': 'also um things that were attitudes to'}, {'start': '368.800', 'end': '374.960', 'text': 'practice or or structures or formats'}, {'start': '371.600', 'end': '378.880', 'text': 'like radical pedagogy, collectivity,'}, {'start': '374.960', 'end': '381.039', 'text': 'song, lament or knowledge and wisdom. Um'}, {'start': '378.880', 'end': '384.240', 'text': 'and I I also know that writing is a big'}, {'start': '381.039', 'end': '386.880', 'text': 'part of your professional background um'}, {'start': '384.240', 'end': '389.600', 'text': 'and your curatorial work and from that'}, {'start': '386.880', 'end': '392.479', 'text': 'perspective I wanted to understand how'}, {'start': '389.600', 'end': '394.560', 'text': 'does this vocabulary of terms uh lend'}, {'start': '392.479', 'end': '398.160', 'text': 'itself to different kinds of artistic'}, {'start': '394.560', 'end': '400.400', 'text': 'practices concerns and mediums. So could'}, {'start': '398.160', 'end': '403.520', 'text': 'you talk through some of the artists and'}, {'start': '400.400', 'end': '405.680', 'text': 'works you invited to the ban? Sure. I'}, {'start': '403.520', 'end': '408.800', 'text': 'mean it was an interesting process. I'}, {'start': '405.680', 'end': '410.880', 'text': 'really um as I said I really chose'}, {'start': '408.800', 'end': '412.960', 'text': "artists that some of that I've worked"}, {'start': '410.880', 'end': '416.080', 'text': 'with for a very long time over a period'}, {'start': '412.960', 'end': '419.599', 'text': "of like 30 years that I've worked with"}, {'start': '416.080', 'end': '421.280', 'text': 'and um and who I you know so I have an'}, {'start': '419.599', 'end': '424.759', 'text': 'engagement a deep engagement with their'}, {'start': '421.280', 'end': '428.479', 'text': 'practice but I you know I I admire and'}, {'start': '424.759', 'end': '431.199', 'text': 'respect the work in which they create.'}, {'start': '428.479', 'end': '433.520', 'text': 'So someone like Daniel Boyd, I was'}, {'start': '431.199', 'end': '437.039', 'text': 'interested in his I really wanted to do'}, {'start': '433.520', 'end': '439.520', 'text': 'like a sight sight responsive work with'}, {'start': '437.039', 'end': '443.199', 'text': 'him. I want him to kind of activate a'}, {'start': '439.520', 'end': '445.280', 'text': 'space and uh shift uh the meaning of'}, {'start': '443.199', 'end': '448.720', 'text': 'that space in some ways. And of course'}, {'start': '445.280', 'end': '450.560', 'text': 'that was the flying saucer um which is'}, {'start': '448.720', 'end': '453.120', 'text': 'an extraordinary space and I saw it'}, {'start': '450.560', 'end': '454.960', 'text': 'really as an experiential space but he'}, {'start': '453.120', 'end': '457.360', 'text': 'talks about all sorts of things. he'}, {'start': '454.960', 'end': '459.599', 'text': 'talks about I mean he works with very'}, {'start': '457.360', 'end': '461.919', 'text': 'big ideas to the point that sometimes I'}, {'start': '459.599', 'end': '463.919', 'text': "don't understand I have to ask her can"}, {'start': '461.919', 'end': '466.919', 'text': 'you explain that again so you know'}, {'start': '463.919', 'end': '471.360', 'text': 'people like Gissant and the ideas of'}, {'start': '466.919', 'end': '476.479', 'text': 'accumulation the ideas of opacity um you'}, {'start': '471.360', 'end': '480.720', 'text': 'know his the the lenses or oculi that he'}, {'start': '476.479', 'end': '483.960', 'text': 'uses which he talks about um fragmented'}, {'start': '480.720', 'end': '487.280', 'text': 'knowledge and how he about perception'}, {'start': '483.960', 'end': '490.479', 'text': 'and multiple entry and exit points'}, {'start': '487.280', 'end': '494.000', 'text': 'within his work. Also the idea I wanted'}, {'start': '490.479', 'end': '496.639', 'text': 'to I mean I like song and um the idea of'}, {'start': '494.000', 'end': '499.199', 'text': 'working with song and very you know the'}, {'start': '496.639', 'end': '502.400', 'text': 'song lament those those terms you know'}, {'start': '499.199', 'end': '505.759', 'text': 'earthwater terrain song lament radical'}, {'start': '502.400', 'end': '507.440', 'text': 'pedagogy collectivity knowledge wisdom'}, {'start': '505.759', 'end': '510.080', 'text': 'that I mean they were kind of'}, {'start': '507.440', 'end': '512.519', 'text': 'overlapping concerns. They came out of a'}, {'start': '510.080', 'end': '515.360', 'text': 'very early conversation between the five'}, {'start': '512.519', 'end': '517.839', 'text': 'curators and I was really interested and'}, {'start': '515.360', 'end': '520.399', 'text': 'I boiled it down to those simple terms'}, {'start': '517.839', 'end': '523.120', 'text': 'that the conversations were much denser'}, {'start': '520.399', 'end': '525.360', 'text': 'than that but I liked those terms and I'}, {'start': '523.120', 'end': '528.800', 'text': 'felt like they were almost like ways in'}, {'start': '525.360', 'end': '530.320', 'text': 'which I could kind of uh frame'}, {'start': '528.800', 'end': '532.399', 'text': "individual works. So it's like this"}, {'start': '530.320', 'end': '534.000', 'text': 'overarching idea, humanity is an'}, {'start': '532.399', 'end': '536.399', 'text': 'incomplete project and then this'}, {'start': '534.000', 'end': '539.839', 'text': 'relationship with land and place and a'}, {'start': '536.399', 'end': '543.279', 'text': 'synergy between both um the work that'}, {'start': '539.839', 'end': '546.399', 'text': 'was coming in and this place here so'}, {'start': '543.279', 'end': '549.920', 'text': 'that there was some kind of relationship'}, {'start': '546.399', 'end': '551.680', 'text': 'and an acknowledgement of the local. Um'}, {'start': '549.920', 'end': '554.240', 'text': 'and then those ones kind of anchored'}, {'start': '551.680', 'end': '558.000', 'text': 'things a bit further. So earth I mean in'}, {'start': '554.240', 'end': '559.760', 'text': 'the I mean the work could relate to'}, {'start': '558.000', 'end': '562.800', 'text': 'sometimes more than one of those kinds'}, {'start': '559.760', 'end': '566.399', 'text': 'of ideas. So someone like Michael Parfi'}, {'start': '562.800', 'end': '569.519', 'text': 'his work um is about song cuz he talks'}, {'start': '566.399', 'end': '572.399', 'text': 'about the piano as a sculpture filling a'}, {'start': '569.519', 'end': '574.399', 'text': 'space you know like the sound of music'}, {'start': '572.399', 'end': '577.040', 'text': 'filling a space like no sculpture could'}, {'start': '574.399', 'end': '579.519', 'text': 'could ever. And the reason it feels like'}, {'start': '577.040', 'end': '581.839', 'text': "it's a little bit dwarfed in that space"}, {'start': '579.519', 'end': '584.480', 'text': "because is because it's supposed to be"}, {'start': '581.839', 'end': '586.560', 'text': 'activated more than it has been. And'}, {'start': '584.480', 'end': '589.920', 'text': "it's supposed to be the sound that fills"}, {'start': '586.560', 'end': '592.320', 'text': 'the space, not necessarily the object.'}, {'start': '589.920', 'end': '595.279', 'text': "So I mean, and it's ephemeral. It's that"}, {'start': '592.320', 'end': '598.560', 'text': 'idea of impermanence. Kate Newbie whose'}, {'start': '595.279', 'end': '600.880', 'text': 'work is completely sight responsive and'}, {'start': '598.560', 'end': '603.440', 'text': 'I really and she really works with like'}, {'start': '600.880', 'end': '605.160', 'text': 'the ordinary and the everyday and'}, {'start': '603.440', 'end': '608.320', 'text': 'sometimes things that are'}, {'start': '605.160', 'end': '611.200', 'text': 'unseen. So her response was really she'}, {'start': '608.320', 'end': '613.600', 'text': 'wanted to work with you know like glass.'}, {'start': '611.200', 'end': '616.079', 'text': 'So when you think of Sher and sand and'}, {'start': '613.600', 'end': '618.399', 'text': 'silica glass she wanted to work with'}, {'start': '616.079', 'end': '620.320', 'text': 'marine rope to reference. I mean, I was'}, {'start': '618.399', 'end': '622.640', 'text': 'quite surprised. I mean, because we did'}, {'start': '620.320', 'end': '624.560', 'text': 'site visits and I was quite surprised'}, {'start': '622.640', 'end': '626.000', 'text': 'she wanted to take on such a it was'}, {'start': '624.560', 'end': '628.720', 'text': 'quite a I thought it was quite a'}, {'start': '626.000', 'end': '630.880', 'text': 'daunting space. And then actually she'}, {'start': '628.720', 'end': '633.680', 'text': 'showed me some pictures later of these'}, {'start': '630.880', 'end': '636.079', 'text': 'wires with blobs on them which are like'}, {'start': '633.680', 'end': '637.680', 'text': 'electrical wires where she kind of'}, {'start': '636.079', 'end': '640.240', 'text': 'referenced that, but it was a way of'}, {'start': '637.680', 'end': '642.240', 'text': 'also breaking up the landscape. It was a'}, {'start': '640.240', 'end': '644.480', 'text': 'way to respond to the landscape. She'}, {'start': '642.240', 'end': '646.800', 'text': 'wanted to pick up the colors. She also'}, {'start': '644.480', 'end': '649.519', 'text': 'wanted to create like a giant sund dial.'}, {'start': '646.800', 'end': '652.399', 'text': 'So it changes over time. So the shadow'}, {'start': '649.519', 'end': '655.440', 'text': 'of that work is as important as the the'}, {'start': '652.399', 'end': '658.360', 'text': 'the physical work, the substance of the'}, {'start': '655.440', 'end': '660.640', 'text': 'work. And again around those ideas of'}, {'start': '658.360', 'end': '663.360', 'text': 'impermanence, you know, she completely'}, {'start': '660.640', 'end': '665.120', 'text': "played into it. So I you know I don't"}, {'start': '663.360', 'end': '666.680', 'text': "know if that's answered your question."}, {'start': '665.120', 'end': '670.399', 'text': "There's I mean there's many"}, {'start': '666.680', 'end': '672.399', 'text': 'more. So someone like Yuwani Scar also'}, {'start': '670.399', 'end': '674.560', 'text': 'works with glass but in a very different'}, {'start': '672.399', 'end': '677.360', 'text': "way. I mean she's talking about country"}, {'start': '674.560', 'end': '681.279', 'text': 'with that work. Those yams are related'}, {'start': '677.360', 'end': '683.040', 'text': 'to a food that uh her family a'}, {'start': '681.279', 'end': '686.320', 'text': 'traditional or a customary food they'}, {'start': '683.040', 'end': '687.760', 'text': 'would have grown and eaten. Um I mean'}, {'start': '686.320', 'end': '690.800', 'text': "and she's talking about that the"}, {'start': '687.760', 'end': '692.880', 'text': 'disaster which is you know these this'}, {'start': '690.800', 'end': '695.519', 'text': 'nuclear history or she calls it nuclear'}, {'start': '692.880', 'end': '698.480', 'text': 'colonization where bombs were dropped in'}, {'start': '695.519', 'end': '701.040', 'text': 'the 50s and 60s in the Malinga desert in'}, {'start': '698.480', 'end': '702.640', 'text': 'the race to you know make weapons of'}, {'start': '701.040', 'end': '705.040', 'text': 'mass destruction. Everyone was very'}, {'start': '702.640', 'end': '707.200', 'text': 'excited about it. I think the British'}, {'start': '705.040', 'end': '709.440', 'text': 'and the Australians allowed them to do'}, {'start': '707.200', 'end': '712.800', 'text': 'it without a thought about what was'}, {'start': '709.440', 'end': '714.720', 'text': 'happening um to the people that actually'}, {'start': '712.800', 'end': '718.480', 'text': 'lived there. And even if they were moved'}, {'start': '714.720', 'end': '721.279', 'text': "off that space um you know they've been"}, {'start': '718.480', 'end': '723.360', 'text': 'in that I mean 60,000 years old of'}, {'start': '721.279', 'end': '725.200', 'text': "continuous culture now they can't access"}, {'start': '723.360', 'end': '727.760', 'text': "those lands cuz they're completely"}, {'start': '725.200', 'end': '730.079', 'text': "toxic. They can't grow the food. The"}, {'start': '727.760', 'end': '733.200', 'text': 'people who were there got very sick.'}, {'start': '730.079', 'end': '736.639', 'text': 'people died, you know. So, I mean, so'}, {'start': '733.200', 'end': '738.320', 'text': 'her work speaks directly to that, you'}, {'start': '736.639', 'end': '742.079', 'text': 'know, the things that we would like to'}, {'start': '738.320', 'end': '743.839', 'text': 'change and not continue to repeat over'}, {'start': '742.079', 'end': '747.680', 'text': "and over and over and over. I don't know"}, {'start': '743.839', 'end': '751.680', 'text': 'if we do learn as humans. Um, you know,'}, {'start': '747.680', 'end': '754.399', 'text': 'the world is in a in a in a in a crisis'}, {'start': '751.680', 'end': '756.720', 'text': "always, it seems. I mean, there's wars,"}, {'start': '754.399', 'end': '758.800', 'text': "there's stuff going on in Saddam,"}, {'start': '756.720', 'end': '759.760', 'text': "there's stuff going on in Gaza, you"}, {'start': '758.800', 'end': '762.079', 'text': 'know.'}, {'start': '759.760', 'end': '765.920', 'text': 'Ukraine, you know, I mean, everywhere. I'}, {'start': '762.079', 'end': '767.800', 'text': 'mean, those that those threats and those'}, {'start': '765.920', 'end': '770.480', 'text': 'things that are happening on a daily'}, {'start': '767.800', 'end': '773.279', 'text': 'basis around the world that we become'}, {'start': '770.480', 'end': '775.519', 'text': 'aware of, you know, I mean, how do we'}, {'start': '773.279', 'end': '778.480', 'text': 'shift and change that? And I feel like'}, {'start': '775.519', 'end': '780.480', 'text': "I'm not that um art can answer all those"}, {'start': '778.480', 'end': '782.480', 'text': 'questions, but at least people are'}, {'start': '780.480', 'end': '785.360', 'text': 'looking at it and reflecting on it and'}, {'start': '782.480', 'end': '788.240', 'text': 'thinking about it and offering maybe a'}, {'start': '785.360', 'end': '791.240', 'text': 'way through or a different way of'}, {'start': '788.240', 'end': '791.240', 'text': 'living.'}, {'start': '796.079', 'end': '802.160', 'text': 'uh you spoke of land and spa place'}, {'start': '798.600', 'end': '804.320', 'text': 'earlier and uh time space and place have'}, {'start': '802.160', 'end': '807.920', 'text': 'a very active presence in many of the'}, {'start': '804.320', 'end': '810.240', 'text': 'works uh you brought to the banial and'}, {'start': '807.920', 'end': '814.000', 'text': "I'm specifically thinking of the video"}, {'start': '810.240', 'end': '817.440', 'text': 'works by subash Limbu or Luke Willis'}, {'start': '814.000', 'end': '821.600', 'text': 'Thompson uh or even the piano and the'}, {'start': '817.440', 'end': '823.760', 'text': 'Michael Paricoise work uh and how how'}, {'start': '821.600', 'end': '826.160', 'text': 'the piano really is an object that'}, {'start': '823.760', 'end': '828.320', 'text': 'functions across time both in in its'}, {'start': '826.160', 'end': '833.440', 'text': "materiality and also in how it's"}, {'start': '828.320', 'end': '835.440', 'text': 'activated uh sound. Uh so I I wanted you'}, {'start': '833.440', 'end': '839.120', 'text': 'to talk about that this relationship'}, {'start': '835.440', 'end': '841.680', 'text': 'between time and place. Um and also ask'}, {'start': '839.120', 'end': '844.560', 'text': 'you what perspective might speaking from'}, {'start': '841.680', 'end': '846.560', 'text': 'another time or from plural times offer'}, {'start': '844.560', 'end': '849.680', 'text': 'us?'}, {'start': '846.560', 'end': '852.079', 'text': 'I think um a lot of the works kind of'}, {'start': '849.680', 'end': '854.360', 'text': 'collapse time if you know what I mean or'}, {'start': '852.079', 'end': '857.279', 'text': "they don't work with time in a regular"}, {'start': '854.360', 'end': '860.320', 'text': "sense. Michael's work of course is both"}, {'start': '857.279', 'end': '862.880', 'text': 'um customary and contemporary. It talks'}, {'start': '860.320', 'end': '865.920', 'text': 'about the history of colonization in New'}, {'start': '862.880', 'end': '868.399', 'text': 'Zealand and how when European settlers'}, {'start': '865.920', 'end': '870.880', 'text': "would come they'd often bring pianos"}, {'start': '868.399', 'end': '873.120', 'text': 'rather than a chest of drawers with them'}, {'start': '870.880', 'end': '874.959', 'text': 'for example because we were the'}, {'start': '873.120', 'end': '876.800', 'text': 'antipities. we were the back of beyond'}, {'start': '874.959', 'end': '879.600', 'text': 'and we had no culture so they would'}, {'start': '876.800', 'end': '881.760', 'text': "bring culture with them you know so he's"}, {'start': '879.600', 'end': '883.760', 'text': 'critiquing and commenting on that'}, {'start': '881.760', 'end': '886.720', 'text': "practice but he's also critiquing and"}, {'start': '883.760', 'end': '889.040', 'text': 'commenting about um how the piano had'}, {'start': '886.720', 'end': '892.360', 'text': 'been adopted basically he made that work'}, {'start': '889.040', 'end': '894.720', 'text': 'initially for the Venice bianali in'}, {'start': '892.360', 'end': '898.639', 'text': "2011 on a project called I'm first"}, {'start': '894.720', 'end': '901.120', 'text': "looking in Chapman's Homer and um he was"}, {'start': '898.639', 'end': '904.079', 'text': 'really he wanted to take something that'}, {'start': '901.120', 'end': '906.480', 'text': 'was recognizable in Italy it to change'}, {'start': '904.079', 'end': '909.800', 'text': 'it. And then the piano was made of'}, {'start': '906.480', 'end': '912.320', 'text': 'course in Paradu in something like'}, {'start': '909.800', 'end': '914.720', 'text': '1655 which he knew but he wanted to'}, {'start': '912.320', 'end': '916.959', 'text': 'reimagine it. So what he was really'}, {'start': '914.720', 'end': '919.199', 'text': "saying in a very ry way was we've taken"}, {'start': '916.959', 'end': '921.760', 'text': "your culture, we've reimagined it and"}, {'start': '919.199', 'end': '923.199', 'text': "we've made it our own and now we sending"}, {'start': '921.760', 'end': '925.839', 'text': 'it back to you in a form that perhaps'}, {'start': '923.199', 'end': '928.240', 'text': "you haven't seen before. So I mean he"}, {'start': '925.839', 'end': '930.399', 'text': 'was saying in in in another way saying'}, {'start': '928.240', 'end': '932.880', 'text': 'you know at one stage Europe was the'}, {'start': '930.399', 'end': '934.800', 'text': 'center in terms of culture and we were'}, {'start': '932.880', 'end': '936.880', 'text': "the periphery. He said now you we've"}, {'start': '934.800', 'end': '939.040', 'text': "kind of come of age we're now the center"}, {'start': '936.880', 'end': '941.760', 'text': 'and perhaps Europe is the periphery.'}, {'start': '939.040', 'end': '944.560', 'text': "It's not as significant. I think his"}, {'start': '941.760', 'end': '946.480', 'text': 'work always works across time and as I'}, {'start': '944.560', 'end': '949.040', 'text': "said kind of collapses time. It's a"}, {'start': '946.480', 'end': '951.199', 'text': 'contemporary object obviously, but it'}, {'start': '949.040', 'end': '954.240', 'text': 'also references a carving tradition that'}, {'start': '951.199', 'end': '957.680', 'text': 'goes way back. Is he talks about that'}, {'start': '954.240', 'end': '960.480', 'text': 'object filling the space like no like'}, {'start': '957.680', 'end': '962.320', 'text': 'sound or song filling a space or music'}, {'start': '960.480', 'end': '965.839', 'text': 'filling a space like no object ever'}, {'start': '962.320', 'end': '967.519', 'text': 'could. And so you know that he he'}, {'start': '965.839', 'end': '970.160', 'text': 'believes that the piano kind of melts'}, {'start': '967.519', 'end': '971.920', 'text': 'away when it plays. So Bash is very much'}, {'start': '970.160', 'end': '974.720', 'text': 'you know it was a a speculative piece of'}, {'start': '971.920', 'end': '977.199', 'text': 'fiction fiction that again collapsed'}, {'start': '974.720', 'end': '979.440', 'text': 'past and present you know had a very'}, {'start': '977.199', 'end': '981.440', 'text': 'historical character meeting a'}, {'start': '979.440', 'end': '984.399', 'text': "contemporary character who's way off in"}, {'start': '981.440', 'end': '986.759', 'text': 'the future I suppose. I mean he works'}, {'start': '984.399', 'end': '990.600', 'text': 'with this concept called adavasi'}, {'start': '986.759', 'end': '992.720', 'text': 'futurism which is really based on um'}, {'start': '990.600', 'end': '994.560', 'text': 'afroofuturism and then indigenous'}, {'start': '992.720', 'end': '998.720', 'text': "futurism and then one that's very"}, {'start': '994.560', 'end': '1003.040', 'text': 'specific to his locality um in as as an'}, {'start': '998.720', 'end': '1005.440', 'text': 'indigenous nepoese person and he talked'}, {'start': '1003.040', 'end': '1007.199', 'text': 'about Dalek communities and wanting to'}, {'start': '1005.440', 'end': '1010.320', 'text': "so it's a very it's like regionally"}, {'start': '1007.199', 'end': '1013.440', 'text': 'specific but it bounces off those and I'}, {'start': '1010.320', 'end': '1015.440', 'text': "think it's like this it's very positive"}, {'start': '1013.440', 'end': '1018.320', 'text': "As I said, that's why I liked the word"}, {'start': '1015.440', 'end': '1021.040', 'text': "EI. Um, Luke's the same. Again, it's a"}, {'start': '1018.320', 'end': '1024.160', 'text': 'piece of speculative uh fiction that'}, {'start': '1021.040', 'end': '1027.120', 'text': 'looks at the year 2040 and looks at a'}, {'start': '1024.160', 'end': '1030.319', 'text': 'complete constitutional change, a move'}, {'start': '1027.120', 'end': '1032.600', 'text': 'from, you know, this Westminster'}, {'start': '1030.319', 'end': '1036.319', 'text': 'uh style of'}, {'start': '1032.600', 'end': '1038.400', 'text': 'um governance in New Zealand, which is a'}, {'start': '1036.319', 'end': '1040.880', 'text': "colonial kind of structure that doesn't"}, {'start': '1038.400', 'end': '1043.520', 'text': 'actually work to a new form of'}, {'start': '1040.880', 'end': '1046.319', 'text': "governance, which has a it's like a like"}, {'start': '1043.520', 'end': '1049.039', 'text': 'a two-state solution, which has got two'}, {'start': '1046.319', 'end': '1052.559', 'text': "houses. One that's an indigenous house"}, {'start': '1049.039', 'end': '1056.280', 'text': "and one that's a that that records the"}, {'start': '1052.559', 'end': '1056.280', 'text': 'way that things are.'}]