Między "drill baby, drill" a greenwashingiem. Transformacja energetyczna Orlenu
Wojciech Jakóbik - Energy Drink
[{'start': '5.497', 'end': '12.497', 'text': 'Orlen is a company that owns fossil fuels, but also invests in energy transformation.'}, {'start': '12.597', 'end': '18.257', 'text': 'Meanwhile, it operates in a post-pandemic environment, after the invasion of Ukraine began,'}, {'start': '18.457', 'end': '21.397', 'text': 'after the energy crisis began.'}, {'start': '21.517', 'end': '26.257', 'text': 'What conclusions does Orlen draw from these megatrends?  As you said,'}, {'start': '26.357', 'end': '31.597', 'text': 'Orlen is a gigantic company operating in several segments that are significant for the Polish economy'}, {'start': '31.597', 'end': '35.277', 'text': 'and the regional economy, i.e. from upstream through downstream,'}, {'start': '35.517', 'end': '40.517', 'text': 'oil processing, fuel supply through customer product, i.e. we'}, {'start': '40.577', 'end': '45.557', 'text': 'deliver the energy that we produce ourselves to consumers.'}, {'start': '46.097', 'end': '50.677', 'text': 'The world is definitely changing a lot and this variability is the word volatility.  I'}, {'start': '51.597', 'end': '56.257', 'text': "guess it's difficult to translate them into Polish exactly to convey what it's about.  We"}, {'start': '56.377', 'end': '59.817', 'text': 'often use this anglicism, but it is true,'}, {'start': '59.917', 'end': '65.117', 'text': "because from COVID, through Russia's invasion of Ukraine, now due to global"}, {'start': '65.117', 'end': '70.737', 'text': 'trade turmoil, situations are changing, and it also implies the pace of energy transformation.'}, {'start': '71.437', 'end': '75.117', 'text': 'This is really overlaid with a regional layer,'}, {'start': '75.257', 'end': '78.977', 'text': 'which we know very well and we can see that this transformation is not uniform'}, {'start': '78.977', 'end': '83.697', 'text': 'and of course we can look globally at the differences between the global North and the'}, {'start': '83.777', 'end': '88.057', 'text': 'global South, but we can also look more regionally at the European Union itself,'}, {'start': '88.197', 'end': '92.517', 'text': 'which as a community has its ambitious goals and we know what they are, they'}, {'start': '92.657', 'end': '97.837', 'text': 'are different in different segments. Nevertheless, the European Union itself is not'}, {'start': '97.837', 'end': '102.797', 'text': 'really equal when it comes to this starting point and we know this exactly as'}, {'start': '102.797', 'end': '106.157', 'text': 'Poland, as the entire region of Central and Eastern Europe.'}, {'start': '106.737', 'end': '111.697', 'text': "Everyone has it, and that's also beautiful, of course, that this regionalism occurs,"}, {'start': '111.797', 'end': '115.457', 'text': 'that each country is different and has its own conditions, but in the context of'}, {'start': '115.457', 'end': '120.777', 'text': 'transformation it also implies how companies move in it.'}, {'start': '120.777', 'end': '122.697', 'text': 'And this is also the case with Orlen.'}, {'start': '122.797', 'end': '128.457', 'text': 'We see, in terms of trends, a difference between Western countries'}, {'start': '128.497', 'end': '132.017', 'text': 'and countries more in Central and Eastern Europe, for example in terms of the pace of'}, {'start': '132.017', 'end': '137.497', 'text': 'electrification of transport or the call phase out, i.e. the'}, {'start': '137.717', 'end': '140.337', 'text': 'removal of coal from the energy mix.'}, {'start': '141.068', 'end': '147.068', 'text': 'Orlando adopted a new strategy in January that emphasizes hard security'}, {'start': '147.068', 'end': '151.608', 'text': 'and, according to your statements, is pragmatic.  How to understand it in this context?'}, {'start': '152.248', 'end': '158.828', 'text': 'Pragmatism does not mean conservatism, because sometimes these two concepts are confused and one'}, {'start': '158.828', 'end': '160.908', 'text': 'may think that the pragmatic approach,'}, {'start': '161.028', 'end': '166.428', 'text': 'which also includes concern for energy security,'}, {'start': '166.428', 'end': '170.328', 'text': 'is in fact a responsible approach and that sustainability,'}, {'start': '170.528', 'end': '175.548', 'text': 'sustainable development, this whole concept also has this pragmatism included in it, to some extent.'}, {'start': '175.628', 'end': '180.728', 'text': 'So this is not conservatism, but just such a responsible shaping of'}, {'start': '180.728', 'end': '184.528', 'text': 'reality and energy security, which, as we see, is on the agenda and'}, {'start': '184.528', 'end': '186.028', 'text': 'is climbing higher and higher.'}, {'start': '186.148', 'end': '190.528', 'text': 'Even though it seemed like security'}, {'start': '190.528', 'end': '193.428', 'text': "was on everyone's lips when Russia invaded Ukraine, it is still very much on our minds."}, {'start': '193.608', 'end': '197.468', 'text': 'This topic has not left the agenda, but with the various incidents'}, {'start': '197.508', 'end': '201.388', 'text': 'that we have witnessed, whether in the Baltic Sea, on land,'}, {'start': '201.468', 'end': '206.088', 'text': 'or simply in terms of the sensitivity of energy markets to various global changes,'}, {'start': '206.248', 'end': '210.848', 'text': 'this security continues to be affected by all sorts of incidents, and that is a very good thing.'}, {'start': '211.268', 'end': '215.248', 'text': 'And Orlen here is actually responding to the needs of the Polish economy,'}, {'start': '215.428', 'end': '219.208', 'text': 'because we see that gas, of course we still call it a transition fuel,'}, {'start': '219.208', 'end': '222.248', 'text': 'because it is a transition fuel, is simply needed.'}, {'start': '222.608', 'end': '227.268', 'text': 'And we show very transparently and clearly that this gas, we called it a'}, {'start': '227.268', 'end': '229.888', 'text': 'gas hedgehog, at some point reaches its peak,'}, {'start': '230.108', 'end': '234.488', 'text': 'there is actually 27 billion cubic meters of demand for gas,'}, {'start': '234.628', 'end': '239.748', 'text': 'which we will supply as a company that is the only gas operator'}, {'start': '240.148', 'end': '242.908', 'text': 'that supplies, a company that supplies gas in Poland.'}, {'start': '243.108', 'end': '248.208', 'text': 'So we want to provide this gas to the Polish economy responsibly and pragmatically.'}, {'start': '248.328', 'end': '253.808', 'text': 'At the same time, we are working on the development of energy, on the development of renewable'}, {'start': '253.808', 'end': '257.508', 'text': 'energy sources, so we are approaching this topic on many levels,'}, {'start': '257.748', 'end': '261.088', 'text': 'on the one hand giving an impulse to the energy transformation, on the'}, {'start': '261.168', 'end': '265.548', 'text': 'other hand providing the economy with what it needs for a sustainable'}, {'start': '265.548', 'end': '269.588', 'text': 'long-term transformation, which is to ensure such a lasting change.'}, {'start': '269.968', 'end': '275.348', 'text': 'How to respond to accusations that Big Oil only uses greenwashing'}, {'start': '275.528', 'end': '277.888', 'text': "and in fact wants to stick to someone else's interests?"}, {'start': '278.821', 'end': '283.661', 'text': "I actually think it's easy to blame Big Oil for this,"}, {'start': '283.781', 'end': '286.901', 'text': "because they're still drilling, they're still extracting these hydrocarbons."}, {'start': '287.021', 'end': '292.781', 'text': 'Nevertheless, it is worth looking at this a little deeper and when we talk'}, {'start': '292.781', 'end': '296.121', 'text': 'to various global companies, the giant ones,'}, {'start': '296.561', 'end': '301.401', 'text': 'they are really already very deep in terms of transformation processes, they are'}, {'start': '301.521', 'end': '303.021', 'text': 'opening up new business lines.'}, {'start': '303.021', 'end': '307.541', 'text': 'Also those that are simply supposed to change this basic activity,'}, {'start': '307.661', 'end': '311.201', 'text': 'i.e. oil and gas, this is, for example, the context of CCUS,'}, {'start': '311.701', 'end': '315.721', 'text': 'i.e. carbon dioxide capture, storage, which they also need to'}, {'start': '315.801', 'end': '318.401', 'text': 'push gas out of the fields, so'}, {'start': '318.401', 'end': '322.641', 'text': 'they also treat the transformation as new business opportunities and I think'}, {'start': '322.721', 'end': '326.541', 'text': 'that here the situation that is happening now in the United States and this'}, {'start': '326.541', 'end': '331.581', 'text': 'really beginning of the retreat from such a more aggressive energy transformation'}, {'start': '331.581', 'end': '333.361', 'text': 'and the reaction of the American business,'}, {'start': '333.481', 'end': '336.521', 'text': 'which was not at all happy with it, although one might think that'}, {'start': '336.601', 'end': '338.441', 'text': 'oil and gas should be happy that'}, {'start': '338.581', 'end': '340.861', 'text': 'Trump is telling them to drill baby drill,'}, {'start': '341.401', 'end': '347.041', 'text': 'but it is not so clear, because this business has invested gigantic billions of'}, {'start': '347.041', 'end': '351.601', 'text': 'dollars in the energy transformation and this is their new transformation path.'}, {'start': '352.181', 'end': '358.321', 'text': 'Orlen and S&P have prepared a report in which one of the plausible theses is the assumption'}, {'start': '358.321', 'end': '364.261', 'text': 'that the condition for economic security is, after all, market integration.'}, {'start': '364.341', 'end': '368.661', 'text': 'What are the arguments for continuing to connect rather than'}, {'start': '368.661', 'end': '370.741', 'text': 'divide for security reasons?'}, {'start': '370.841', 'end': '374.481', 'text': 'First of all, looking at it from a business point of view, a'}, {'start': '374.621', 'end': '378.141', 'text': 'purely business point of view, we know that when it comes to energy transformation, it'}, {'start': '378.301', 'end': '380.101', 'text': 'cannot be done alone.'}, {'start': '380.321', 'end': '383.661', 'text': 'Only here cooperation is needed, business partnerships are needed,'}, {'start': '383.761', 'end': '387.081', 'text': 'which on the one hand give us the opportunity to share risks with a partner,'}, {'start': '387.081', 'end': '390.901', 'text': 'on the other hand give us the opportunity to open up to new business lines,'}, {'start': '391.121', 'end': '393.741', 'text': 'to topics that we do not know yet or that we are just learning about,'}, {'start': '394.121', 'end': '398.661', 'text': 'because these partnerships can bring new quality, new experience to the project.'}, {'start': '399.046', 'end': '402.786', 'text': 'Here I can give an example of offshore, offshore wind energy, the'}, {'start': '402.966', 'end': '406.966', 'text': 'Orlen project, which we are developing together with Northland Power.'}, {'start': '407.206', 'end': '411.606', 'text': 'This will be the first Polish wind farm and success and this schedule that'}, {'start': '411.726', 'end': '414.806', 'text': 'is on time is precisely what partnership is.'}, {'start': '415.006', 'end': '418.046', 'text': 'And just like if you look at the Baltic Sea, all these countries, the'}, {'start': '418.206', 'end': '422.846', 'text': '8 countries that we analyzed with S&P in our report, these are countries'}, {'start': '422.886', 'end': '425.266', 'text': 'that are, first of all, in the EU and are in NATO.'}, {'start': '425.266', 'end': '431.566', 'text': 'And these countries know well that cooperation in the long term can bring them an advantage,'}, {'start': '431.746', 'end': '434.926', 'text': 'because if we know the genesis of the European Union, of course, we know that'}, {'start': '435.066', 'end': '437.606', 'text': 'this cooperation, these advantages,'}, {'start': '437.606', 'end': '442.606', 'text': 'especially on this continent, however fragmented, brings this value.'}, {'start': '442.606', 'end': '446.046', 'text': 'And with the energy transformation, which is something new,'}, {'start': '446.166', 'end': '453.046', 'text': 'something that also forces us to use what'}, {'start': '453.166', 'end': '457.266', 'text': 'we have in some places and share it and also make money on it, of course.'}, {'start': '457.526', 'end': '460.446', 'text': 'It shows that this cooperation is simply beneficial.'}, {'start': '460.706', 'end': '464.366', 'text': 'In addition, I think I can refer to the United States,'}, {'start': '464.466', 'end': '469.226', 'text': 'to what we see in the global order, if you look at the WTO and the fact'}, {'start': '469.286', 'end': '472.766', 'text': 'that it actually fell apart, because this global order,'}, {'start': '472.926', 'end': '477.986', 'text': 'this multilateral order, simply began to fall apart, well, we see'}, {'start': '478.066', 'end': '483.066', 'text': 'that in a fragmenting world, there can actually be strength in these partnerships and in this'}, {'start': '483.066', 'end': '486.686', 'text': 'cooperation and we simply need to take care of it.'}, {'start': '486.766', 'end': '491.926', 'text': 'And the Baltic Sea is such a low-hanging fruit that can be used for transformation,'}, {'start': '492.006', 'end': '494.066', 'text': 'for security, which we already know.'}, {'start': '494.416', 'end': '498.076', 'text': "So what can we expect in the Baltic Sea in terms of Orlen's plans and"}, {'start': '498.236', 'end': '499.816', 'text': 'cooperation in Poland and abroad?'}, {'start': '500.096', 'end': '504.956', 'text': 'If we look at our strategy, it also overlaps with the elements'}, {'start': '505.056', 'end': '506.536', 'text': 'that we highlighted in the report,'}, {'start': '506.836', 'end': '512.176', 'text': 'because these are the business elements that the Baltic Sea also gives us, that the region'}, {'start': '512.176', 'end': '516.476', 'text': 'gives us, so this is offshore wind energy, there is CCUS, i.e. capture,'}, {'start': '516.696', 'end': '520.996', 'text': 'but storage of carbon dioxide in this region.  It is also hydrogen.'}, {'start': '521.536', 'end': '528.796', 'text': 'In the region, we know that there is a possibility of cooperation to provide a deficit of 300 thousand tons of hydrogen,'}, {'start': '528.956', 'end': '532.756', 'text': 'which is missing in countries such as Poland and Germany, so Oron also sees'}, {'start': '532.756', 'end': '537.496', 'text': 'opportunities here for both its own production and import of hydrogen through the European'}, {'start': '537.496', 'end': '542.656', 'text': 'Hydrogen Backbone from Scandinavia to Poland.'}, {'start': '542.656', 'end': '547.796', 'text': 'Next we also have gas and here we can see that when it comes to gas imports,'}, {'start': '548.016', 'end': '551.796', 'text': 'we have security for the future for these 27 BCMs,'}, {'start': '551.896', 'end': '557.416', 'text': 'while the region has opportunities for greater integration by using the'}, {'start': '557.416', 'end': '560.776', 'text': 'existing connections between countries.'}, {'start': '560.776', 'end': '564.636', 'text': 'And of course we have electricity interconnectors, which here,'}, {'start': '564.656', 'end': '567.076', 'text': 'if we compare it with the North Sea,'}, {'start': '567.156', 'end': '572.436', 'text': 'well, in the Baltic Sea, the ratio of interconnectors is also much smaller.  The'}, {'start': '572.776', 'end': '578.536', 'text': 'Baltic states have already harmonised with the European electricity system.'}, {'start': '578.696', 'end': '582.036', 'text': 'And this is also a certain building block that we are building both for the transformation,'}, {'start': '582.136', 'end': '585.976', 'text': 'so that this energy can flow freely between countries,'}, {'start': '585.976', 'end': '589.196', 'text': 'but also for security, because these countries have joined the co-plane, they have'}, {'start': '589.476', 'end': '592.016', 'text': 'separated from the Eastern system.'}, {'start': '592.596', 'end': '597.156', 'text': 'What is the single most exciting topic in your daily activities'}, {'start': '597.156', 'end': '602.516', 'text': 'at Orlen that we should be following particularly closely until the end of the year?'}, {'start': '603.936', 'end': '608.036', 'text': 'By the end of this year?  This is a very difficult question, because my work is very'}, {'start': '608.036', 'end': '613.916', 'text': 'interesting and many topics come up.  I would watch nuclear energy too.'}, {'start': '614.036', 'end': '617.976', 'text': "This is one of the elements of Orlen's strategy, nuclear energy also for the industry."}, {'start': '618.156', 'end': '619.976', 'text': 'This is something exciting.'}, {'start': '620.176', 'end': '625.556', 'text': 'We all keep our fingers crossed for the development of small nuclear energy and hope'}, {'start': '625.596', 'end': '630.616', 'text': 'that this, as one of the decarbonization levers, will also support the change and transformation of'}, {'start': '630.616', 'end': '633.256', 'text': 'the industry in Orlen.  Thank you very much.  Thank you.'}]