Spring 2025 - Ryan Tucker Jones, University of Oregon
UW School of Aquatic and Fishery Sciences
[{'start': '1.000', 'end': '5.600', 'text': 'introduc and be here for a couple'}, {'start': '4.160', 'end': '7.440', 'text': "reasons. First of all, it's because"}, {'start': '5.600', 'end': '9.120', 'text': 'where this is the place where I began'}, {'start': '7.440', 'end': '10.599', 'text': 'research for this book a very long time'}, {'start': '9.120', 'end': '12.759', 'text': 'ago when I was'}, {'start': '10.599', 'end': '16.720', 'text': 'post in'}, {'start': '12.759', 'end': '18.560', 'text': '2009 at which time I had no idea uh what'}, {'start': '16.720', 'end': '21.439', 'text': 'I was getting into. I knew just a few'}, {'start': '18.560', 'end': '24.960', 'text': 'names. Two of those are here. Uh so I'}, {'start': '21.439', 'end': '28.560', 'text': 'want to thank Washington for being here'}, {'start': '24.960', 'end': '31.679', 'text': 'today. two of the real pioneers in the'}, {'start': '28.560', 'end': '33.200', 'text': 'uh in revealing the history of Soviet'}, {'start': '31.679', 'end': '35.760', 'text': 'illegal end, people that I got to know'}, {'start': '33.200', 'end': '39.120', 'text': 'really well over the course of doing'}, {'start': '35.760', 'end': '41.399', 'text': 'this research um and who have special'}, {'start': '39.120', 'end': '43.680', 'text': 'special acknowledgement in this'}, {'start': '41.399', 'end': '46.879', 'text': "book. Uh so I'm really glad that they're"}, {'start': '43.680', 'end': '49.120', 'text': 'here. So delighted to be at uh the'}, {'start': '46.879', 'end': '51.360', 'text': 'University of Washington once again to'}, {'start': '49.120', 'end': '53.280', 'text': 'talk about my book Leviathan, the secret'}, {'start': '51.360', 'end': '55.920', 'text': 'history of Soviet oil. Today I want to'}, {'start': '53.280', 'end': '57.440', 'text': "focus in on what's was one of my"}, {'start': '55.920', 'end': '59.280', 'text': 'favorite parts of writing the book and'}, {'start': '57.440', 'end': '60.199', 'text': 'which one of the parts which I think'}, {'start': '59.280', 'end': '64.080', 'text': 'maybe'}, {'start': '60.199', 'end': '68.320', 'text': 'unfortunately has some added salience'}, {'start': '64.080', 'end': '72.479', 'text': 'this year of 2025 which is the plight of'}, {'start': '68.320', 'end': '76.880', 'text': 'scientists working under uh repressive'}, {'start': '72.479', 'end': '79.520', 'text': 'political regimes and what things they'}, {'start': '76.880', 'end': '80.960', 'text': 'were and were not able to say and were'}, {'start': '79.520', 'end': '84.799', 'text': "and were were not able to do. I'm not"}, {'start': '80.960', 'end': '87.159', 'text': 'trying any direct comparisons. So yeah,'}, {'start': '84.799', 'end': '90.119', 'text': 'but say you'}, {'start': '87.159', 'end': '93.400', 'text': "might history doesn't"}, {'start': '90.119', 'end': '96.479', 'text': 'rhymes as historians. Uh'}, {'start': '93.400', 'end': '99.360', 'text': 'so forgive me I am a historian of course'}, {'start': '96.479', 'end': '101.439', 'text': 'not a marine biologist but one finds uh'}, {'start': '99.360', 'end': '104.479', 'text': 'the work that marine biologist'}, {'start': '101.439', 'end': '106.479', 'text': 'especially whale uh scientists do to be'}, {'start': '104.479', 'end': '108.799', 'text': 'extremely fascinating and extremely'}, {'start': '106.479', 'end': '110.960', 'text': 'important in the history of our'}, {'start': '108.799', 'end': '114.479', 'text': 'relationship with the natural world and'}, {'start': '110.960', 'end': '115.399', 'text': 'especially with the ocean. Okay. So this'}, {'start': '114.479', 'end': '118.960', 'text': 'is a'}, {'start': '115.399', 'end': '123.000', 'text': 'picture which was for most people around'}, {'start': '118.960', 'end': '126.000', 'text': 'the world their introduction to'}, {'start': '123.000', 'end': '126.000', 'text': 'Soviet'}, {'start': '126.520', 'end': '132.879', 'text': "recogn's picture of their protest of the"}, {'start': '129.200', 'end': '135.120', 'text': 'Soviet whailing vessel the donto in June'}, {'start': '132.879', 'end': '137.520', 'text': 'of 1975.'}, {'start': '135.120', 'end': '139.440', 'text': 'Greenpeace protesters managed to locate'}, {'start': '137.520', 'end': '142.800', 'text': 'it in the North Pacific Ocean off the'}, {'start': '139.440', 'end': '144.720', 'text': 'coast of California and then they filmed'}, {'start': '142.800', 'end': '146.120', 'text': 'uh its whailing operations. They were'}, {'start': '144.720', 'end': '149.440', 'text': 'taking sperm whales there and'}, {'start': '146.120', 'end': '152.680', 'text': 'dramatically had a picture of a harpoon'}, {'start': '149.440', 'end': '156.319', 'text': 'being fired over their heads. This was'}, {'start': '152.680', 'end': '157.760', 'text': 'broadcast around the world and people I'}, {'start': '156.319', 'end': '159.440', 'text': 'think for the first time most people'}, {'start': '157.760', 'end': '162.160', 'text': 'understood that Russians were doing'}, {'start': '159.440', 'end': '163.760', 'text': 'whing uh and instantly agreed that you'}, {'start': '162.160', 'end': '165.920', 'text': 'know this was something absolutely'}, {'start': '163.760', 'end': '167.280', 'text': 'horrible that needed to be in that in'}, {'start': '165.920', 'end': '169.920', 'text': 'some ways this was one of the key'}, {'start': '167.280', 'end': '172.080', 'text': 'moments uh in the save the whales'}, {'start': '169.920', 'end': '174.720', 'text': 'movement one of the key moments towards'}, {'start': '172.080', 'end': '177.519', 'text': 'the moratorum uh which would take place'}, {'start': '174.720', 'end': '180.000', 'text': 'less than would be agreed on less than'}, {'start': '177.519', 'end': '181.680', 'text': '10 years after this moment. Uh when I'}, {'start': '180.000', 'end': '183.519', 'text': 'wrote this book though, I thought, you'}, {'start': '181.680', 'end': '185.200', 'text': 'know, the this story that I knew, it'}, {'start': '183.519', 'end': '187.760', 'text': 'happened the year that I was born, was'}, {'start': '185.200', 'end': '189.840', 'text': 'really famous here in the West Coast. Um'}, {'start': '187.760', 'end': '192.480', 'text': 'I was really interested in who were'}, {'start': '189.840', 'end': '196.159', 'text': 'these people on this boat, you know, who'}, {'start': '192.480', 'end': '198.239', 'text': 'were these Russians killing uh the sperm'}, {'start': '196.159', 'end': '200.800', 'text': 'whales of the North Pacific Ocean. And'}, {'start': '198.239', 'end': '203.159', 'text': 'as I got deeper and deeper into this'}, {'start': '200.800', 'end': '206.640', 'text': 'research, I found them more and more'}, {'start': '203.159', 'end': '209.040', 'text': 'fascinating. Uh amongst those people'}, {'start': '206.640', 'end': '212.640', 'text': 'here on the boat was one of the premier'}, {'start': '209.040', 'end': '215.920', 'text': 'whaling biologists of the 1970s, Alfred'}, {'start': '212.640', 'end': '219.280', 'text': 'Berine, specialist in sperm whales. And'}, {'start': '215.920', 'end': '222.720', 'text': 'the people on this boat uh though'}, {'start': '219.280', 'end': '224.400', 'text': 'depicted here as sort of unthinking'}, {'start': '222.720', 'end': '227.280', 'text': "mechanical monsters. That's actually the"}, {'start': '224.400', 'end': '230.640', 'text': 'the word that Bob Hunter used for his'}, {'start': '227.280', 'end': '232.400', 'text': 'account uh of this encounter were were'}, {'start': '230.640', 'end': '234.799', 'text': "much more complicated. You won't be"}, {'start': '232.400', 'end': '239.920', 'text': 'surprised to hear. and their ideas about'}, {'start': '234.799', 'end': '243.200', 'text': 'whales uh were actually not as far from'}, {'start': '239.920', 'end': '245.360', 'text': 'green pieces as one might have suspected'}, {'start': '243.200', 'end': '247.120', 'text': 'and whale scientists again that played a'}, {'start': '245.360', 'end': '249.920', 'text': 'really important role actually bringing'}, {'start': '247.120', 'end': '252.879', 'text': 'a transformation uh in the Russian'}, {'start': '249.920', 'end': '256.000', 'text': "public's ideas of okay I'll don't want"}, {'start': '252.879', 'end': '258.320', 'text': "to exaggerate it there there'll be well"}, {'start': '256.000', 'end': '260.840', 'text': "I'll I'll try to flesh these ideas out"}, {'start': '258.320', 'end': '266.160', 'text': 'um in the course of this'}, {'start': '260.840', 'end': '269.120', 'text': 'talk to do that as a historian go back'}, {'start': '266.160', 'end': '271.440', 'text': 'before the Russian culture which'}, {'start': '269.120', 'end': '274.240', 'text': 'probably known to place in 1917 created'}, {'start': '271.440', 'end': '277.320', 'text': "the world's first communist state but of"}, {'start': '274.240', 'end': '279.840', 'text': "course it didn't"}, {'start': '277.320', 'end': '282.400', 'text': 'undo decades centuries of Russian'}, {'start': '279.840', 'end': '285.360', 'text': 'history there was a long tradition in'}, {'start': '282.400', 'end': '288.160', 'text': 'Russia uh especially in the last 50 or'}, {'start': '285.360', 'end': '291.360', 'text': '60 years of the 19th century of doing'}, {'start': '288.160', 'end': '294.479', 'text': 'pretty sophisticated and interesting uh'}, {'start': '291.360', 'end': '296.400', 'text': "biology ology and I I'll just pinpoint a"}, {'start': '294.479', 'end': '299.040', 'text': 'couple of ideas which were really'}, {'start': '296.400', 'end': '300.720', 'text': 'important in Russian science. Uh the'}, {'start': '299.040', 'end': '303.280', 'text': 'study of ethology, the study of animal'}, {'start': '300.720', 'end': '306.000', 'text': 'behavior was uh quite welldeveloped in'}, {'start': '303.280', 'end': '308.800', 'text': 'Russia. Maybe the most famous scientists'}, {'start': '306.000', 'end': '311.360', 'text': 'in this regard was a man named Gerkin'}, {'start': '308.800', 'end': '313.360', 'text': 'who was a socialist and revolutionary uh'}, {'start': '311.360', 'end': '316.479', 'text': 'and also put forward a kind of'}, {'start': '313.360', 'end': '320.160', 'text': 'contending theory to natural selection'}, {'start': '316.479', 'end': '322.520', 'text': 'which stressed the cooperative aspects'}, {'start': '320.160', 'end': '326.479', 'text': 'between species. Um we thought that'}, {'start': '322.520', 'end': '329.440', 'text': 'altruism was an important uh motor for'}, {'start': '326.479', 'end': '332.240', 'text': 'evolution just as much as competition'}, {'start': '329.440', 'end': '334.199', 'text': 'was and given well known uh for these'}, {'start': '332.240', 'end': '337.759', 'text': 'ideas and they would by the way'}, {'start': '334.199', 'end': '339.560', 'text': 'be warmly embraced by the new Soviet'}, {'start': '337.759', 'end': '342.560', 'text': 'Union which was of course trying to'}, {'start': '339.560', 'end': '345.360', 'text': 'create a new society in which'}, {'start': '342.560', 'end': '348.560', 'text': 'cooperation not just competition would'}, {'start': '345.360', 'end': '351.039', 'text': 'play a very important role and so would'}, {'start': '348.560', 'end': '354.160', 'text': 'say some of these pre-revolutionary'}, {'start': '351.039', 'end': '358.320', 'text': 'ideas would find their way into the new'}, {'start': '354.160', 'end': '360.320', 'text': 'Soviet Union. Um, community biology. Uh,'}, {'start': '358.320', 'end': '362.880', 'text': 'the Russians were very much at the'}, {'start': '360.320', 'end': '365.440', 'text': 'forefront of the study of ecosystems.'}, {'start': '362.880', 'end': '367.080', 'text': 'This is'}, {'start': '365.440', 'end': '370.240', 'text': 'uh an idea called'}, {'start': '367.080', 'end': '372.919', 'text': 'bioenosis uh which was pioneered by a'}, {'start': '370.240', 'end': '377.039', 'text': 'Russian Ukrainian'}, {'start': '372.919', 'end': '379.919', 'text': 'biologist. Uh, one of his research sites'}, {'start': '377.039', 'end': '383.840', 'text': 'was was one of the first in in Ukraine'}, {'start': '379.919', 'end': '386.479', 'text': 'today. uh to really study the movement'}, {'start': '383.840', 'end': '388.479', 'text': 'of energy through ecosystems, to try to'}, {'start': '386.479', 'end': '391.520', 'text': 'quantify it, to try to understand how'}, {'start': '388.479', 'end': '393.919', 'text': 'pass through ecosystems. And again, this'}, {'start': '391.520', 'end': '395.240', 'text': 'was an idea which the new communist'}, {'start': '393.919', 'end': '398.639', 'text': 'regime'}, {'start': '395.240', 'end': '401.680', 'text': 'uh fully embraced the idea that we need'}, {'start': '398.639', 'end': '406.160', 'text': 'to understand ecosystem energetics uh in'}, {'start': '401.680', 'end': '409.280', 'text': 'part to plan rationally for our economic'}, {'start': '406.160', 'end': '412.319', 'text': 'future. the state was taking over the'}, {'start': '409.280', 'end': '414.479', 'text': 'entire idea of the Russian economy. Uh'}, {'start': '412.319', 'end': '417.120', 'text': 'and they would need to be able to plan'}, {'start': '414.479', 'end': '419.599', 'text': 'it and indeed have the opportunity to'}, {'start': '417.120', 'end': '422.440', 'text': 'plan in a new way that capitalists never'}, {'start': '419.599', 'end': '425.440', 'text': 'were able to do with the central uh'}, {'start': '422.440', 'end': '428.880', 'text': 'organizing body uh to organize the'}, {'start': '425.440', 'end': '430.960', 'text': 'economy. If we they they understood um'}, {'start': '428.880', 'end': '432.960', 'text': 'Linen was on board with this you know'}, {'start': '430.960', 'end': '435.840', 'text': 'Vladimir Linen uh the leader of the'}, {'start': '432.960', 'end': '438.319', 'text': 'Bolevik revolution the idea that uh to'}, {'start': '435.840', 'end': '441.199', 'text': 'plan effectively for the future need to'}, {'start': '438.319', 'end': '444.400', 'text': 'know how much energy is available and we'}, {'start': '441.199', 'end': '447.039', 'text': 'need to know how to wisely use that kind'}, {'start': '444.400', 'end': '451.560', 'text': 'of energy and this is the concept of'}, {'start': '447.039', 'end': '453.520', 'text': 'wise use I put up one example of'}, {'start': '451.560', 'end': '455.759', 'text': 'pre-revolutionary traditions which made'}, {'start': '453.520', 'end': '458.240', 'text': 'it past the revolution and this is the'}, {'start': '455.759', 'end': '460.639', 'text': 'idea a of a zapednik that is a place'}, {'start': '458.240', 'end': '463.680', 'text': "that's put aside is it was a kind of"}, {'start': '460.639', 'end': '465.919', 'text': 'Russian form of a nature preserve. Uh'}, {'start': '463.680', 'end': '468.560', 'text': 'and this the idea of the nature preserve'}, {'start': '465.919', 'end': '472.759', 'text': 'in Russia was precisely to to maintain'}, {'start': '468.560', 'end': '475.720', 'text': 'some places pristine free from human'}, {'start': '472.759', 'end': '479.400', 'text': 'interaction so that things like energy'}, {'start': '475.720', 'end': '481.919', 'text': 'transfer could be studied uh and'}, {'start': '479.400', 'end': '483.680', 'text': 'ecosystems untouched by humans could be'}, {'start': '481.919', 'end': '486.319', 'text': 'understood. I put this one up there in'}, {'start': '483.680', 'end': '488.240', 'text': "particular. It's absolutely beautiful"}, {'start': '486.319', 'end': '491.120', 'text': "part of the Russian Far East. It's on"}, {'start': '488.240', 'end': '494.039', 'text': 'the peninsula of Kamchatka, the Kranosk'}, {'start': '491.120', 'end': '498.720', 'text': 'of Vietn. And also it was created in'}, {'start': '494.039', 'end': '502.080', 'text': "1934. This was during Stalin's second"}, {'start': '498.720', 'end': '504.960', 'text': '5-year plan uh when the Soviet Union was'}, {'start': '502.080', 'end': '506.879', 'text': 'rapidly industrializing itself. Was also'}, {'start': '504.960', 'end': '509.120', 'text': 'right in the middle of the creation of'}, {'start': '506.879', 'end': '512.760', 'text': 'the first Russian whailing fleet.'}, {'start': '509.120', 'end': '515.919', 'text': 'another sign that some of these ideas uh'}, {'start': '512.760', 'end': '519.120', 'text': 'persisted made it into the Soviet Union.'}, {'start': '515.919', 'end': '522.080', 'text': 'Uh and in fact, Zap Vietn continued to'}, {'start': '519.120', 'end': '524.880', 'text': 'grow in the early years at least of the'}, {'start': '522.080', 'end': '526.399', 'text': 'Soviet Union. Okay, this one as I said'}, {'start': '524.880', 'end': '529.600', 'text': 'is very near to where much of the'}, {'start': '526.399', 'end': '532.640', 'text': 'whailing took place in the 1930s. Of'}, {'start': '529.600', 'end': '532.640', 'text': "course, there weren't some"}, {'start': '532.680', 'end': '539.320', 'text': 'counterveailing innovations in Soviet'}, {'start': '535.519', 'end': '542.880', 'text': 'science. Certainly the boleviks, the'}, {'start': '539.320', 'end': '545.200', 'text': 'communists believed not just in letting'}, {'start': '542.880', 'end': '546.959', 'text': 'nature believe leaving nature alone. Uh'}, {'start': '545.200', 'end': '550.399', 'text': 'they intended to harness it to the'}, {'start': '546.959', 'end': '554.000', 'text': 'maximum for human use. Uh and there were'}, {'start': '550.399', 'end': '556.000', 'text': 'they did create uh right away different'}, {'start': '554.000', 'end': '559.680', 'text': 'bodies of scientific research that would'}, {'start': '556.000', 'end': '562.240', 'text': 'be put to these sorts of uses. I just me'}, {'start': '559.680', 'end': '564.959', 'text': 'show you one here. This is the Pacific'}, {'start': '562.240', 'end': '566.640', 'text': 'Ocean Institute of Fisheries and'}, {'start': '564.959', 'end': '569.200', 'text': "Oceanography that's in the city of"}, {'start': '566.640', 'end': '571.760', 'text': 'Vladivosto which was on the Russian'}, {'start': '569.200', 'end': '574.959', 'text': 'Pacific and one of the most important'}, {'start': '571.760', 'end': '576.839', 'text': 'centers of whaling research as well. So'}, {'start': '574.959', 'end': '578.959', 'text': 'this was you know an'}, {'start': '576.839', 'end': '581.120', 'text': 'institution designed very much for'}, {'start': '578.959', 'end': '584.399', 'text': 'instrumentalist purposes. How do we'}, {'start': '581.120', 'end': '585.560', 'text': 'increase catches of fish in the ocean?'}, {'start': '584.399', 'end': '588.240', 'text': 'Well, of'}, {'start': '585.560', 'end': '590.560', 'text': 'course, keeping in mind, at least in'}, {'start': '588.240', 'end': '593.760', 'text': 'theory, uh some of these older ideas of'}, {'start': '590.560', 'end': '597.200', 'text': "wise use, moderation uh that I'm talking"}, {'start': '593.760', 'end': '599.440', 'text': 'about. And to to give a kind of nod to'}, {'start': '597.200', 'end': '603.839', 'text': 'the persistence of these ideas, this is'}, {'start': '599.440', 'end': '606.720', 'text': 'the Academy of Sciences in Moscow. This'}, {'start': '603.839', 'end': '609.360', 'text': 'kind of futuristic looking building uh'}, {'start': '606.720', 'end': '611.920', 'text': 'that you see from many parts of the city'}, {'start': '609.360', 'end': '614.560', 'text': 'today. uh lived in Moscow for a couple'}, {'start': '611.920', 'end': '616.240', 'text': "of years and um it's a it's a landmark a"}, {'start': '614.560', 'end': '619.200', 'text': 'blight I guess depending on your'}, {'start': '616.240', 'end': '621.320', 'text': 'perspective but certainly a center of a'}, {'start': '619.200', 'end': '624.160', 'text': 'kind of a much more holistic way of'}, {'start': '621.320', 'end': '627.200', 'text': 'thinking about the natural world far'}, {'start': '624.160', 'end': '629.680', 'text': 'less uh interested in applied uh'}, {'start': '627.200', 'end': '631.760', 'text': 'sciences far more interested in the kind'}, {'start': '629.680', 'end': '634.079', 'text': 'of study of ecosystems and things like'}, {'start': '631.760', 'end': '637.560', 'text': 'that and uh the academy of science has'}, {'start': '634.079', 'end': '641.279', 'text': 'played an important role here as'}, {'start': '637.560', 'end': '645.120', 'text': 'well. Okay. So, how does this connect'}, {'start': '641.279', 'end': '647.839', 'text': 'the whailing? Well, in 1932, the Soviets'}, {'start': '645.120', 'end': '650.560', 'text': 'founded their first whailing fleet. This'}, {'start': '647.839', 'end': '653.519', 'text': 'is so-called aliot fleet, and it was to'}, {'start': '650.560', 'end': '656.320', 'text': 'be based in Vladivosto, now the most'}, {'start': '653.519', 'end': '659.200', 'text': 'important city on the Russian Pacific.'}, {'start': '656.320', 'end': '661.279', 'text': "Uh there's a fabulous account of the uh"}, {'start': '659.200', 'end': '662.800', 'text': 'the voyage that they they took the ships'}, {'start': '661.279', 'end': '666.480', 'text': 'all the way from Leningrad, St.'}, {'start': '662.800', 'end': '669.279', 'text': 'Petersburg now uh to Vladivas nearly the'}, {'start': '666.480', 'end': '671.720', 'text': 'entire way around the world. Um this is'}, {'start': '669.279', 'end': '676.120', 'text': "the the book. It was written by Russia's"}, {'start': '671.720', 'end': '679.519', 'text': 'first a man named Ba Zenovich.'}, {'start': '676.120', 'end': '681.839', 'text': 'Um to tell you some stories from that'}, {'start': '679.519', 'end': '685.279', 'text': 'boy because there were some great ones'}, {'start': '681.839', 'end': '689.120', 'text': 'amongst them. The delicious bath that'}, {'start': '685.279', 'end': '694.279', 'text': 'the very first Russian Soviet whailing'}, {'start': '689.120', 'end': '698.320', 'text': 'kill took place on October 27,'}, {'start': '694.279', 'end': '700.320', 'text': '1932 off the coast of Mexico, which was'}, {'start': '698.320', 'end': '703.680', 'text': 'the 15th anniversary of the Bolevik'}, {'start': '700.320', 'end': '707.279', 'text': 'Revolution. Exactly that day. It had to'}, {'start': '703.680', 'end': '709.200', 'text': "happen. Um I I don't know how how this"}, {'start': '707.279', 'end': '710.959', 'text': "was actually to happen. Uh but that's"}, {'start': '709.200', 'end': '714.160', 'text': 'the way it was reported at least.'}, {'start': '710.959', 'end': '716.800', 'text': "Zenovich. Um, interesting. I don't have"}, {'start': '714.160', 'end': '721.519', 'text': 'a picture of him, unfortunately. Uh, I'}, {'start': '716.800', 'end': '721.519', 'text': 'have a picture of a later Soviet'}, {'start': '722.440', 'end': '730.320', 'text': 'whale the kind'}, {'start': '724.839', 'end': '732.560', 'text': 'of research that was being done in first'}, {'start': '730.320', 'end': '735.440', 'text': 'Russian really trained in whale science.'}, {'start': '732.560', 'end': '738.639', 'text': 'He was ecstatic. Uh, the Soviet Union'}, {'start': '735.440', 'end': '741.680', 'text': 'was finally founding its own whailing'}, {'start': '738.639', 'end': '744.240', 'text': 'industry. Waiting was not to the North'}, {'start': '741.680', 'end': '747.519', 'text': 'Pacific. In fact, people in Russia were'}, {'start': '744.240', 'end': '751.680', 'text': 'keenly aware that there had been lots of'}, {'start': '747.519', 'end': '751.680', 'text': 'wind in the water. Not by'}, {'start': '752.920', 'end': '760.560', 'text': 'Russians, 1889 when they wiped'}, {'start': '756.440', 'end': '763.760', 'text': 'out many of the most of the the right'}, {'start': '760.560', 'end': '767.279', 'text': 'whales, bowheads, etc. grey whales off'}, {'start': '763.760', 'end': '770.880', 'text': 'the coast there. uh and this kind of'}, {'start': '767.279', 'end': '773.279', 'text': 'legacy was was bitterly resented in the'}, {'start': '770.880', 'end': '777.440', 'text': 'Russian markets was a symbol of the kind'}, {'start': '773.279', 'end': '780.279', 'text': 'of e ecological mayhem and recklessness'}, {'start': '777.440', 'end': '783.200', 'text': 'that Americans were capable of and'}, {'start': '780.279', 'end': '785.600', 'text': 'Zenovich felt that Soviet Union was'}, {'start': '783.200', 'end': '788.079', 'text': 'going to do a much much better job uh'}, {'start': '785.600', 'end': '790.959', 'text': 'than the Americans had done and was part'}, {'start': '788.079', 'end': '794.000', 'text': 'of that process. He was there to make'}, {'start': '790.959', 'end': '796.079', 'text': 'sure first of all that yes the this new'}, {'start': '794.000', 'end': '799.920', 'text': 'fleet was going to catch enough whales'}, {'start': '796.079', 'end': '801.519', 'text': 'to make to to contribute the stom effort'}, {'start': '799.920', 'end': '802.639', 'text': 'the feeding of Russian people in the'}, {'start': '801.519', 'end': '804.560', 'text': 'Russian far east into the'}, {'start': '802.639', 'end': '806.360', 'text': 'industrialization of the country but'}, {'start': '804.560', 'end': '809.240', 'text': 'also that'}, {'start': '806.360', 'end': '811.839', 'text': 'when these'}, {'start': '809.240', 'end': '814.720', 'text': "limits extensions we've been talking"}, {'start': '811.839', 'end': '818.560', 'text': 'about were reached uh that the fleet'}, {'start': '814.720', 'end': '820.399', 'text': 'would pull back uh on its cap. Uh and'}, {'start': '818.560', 'end': '823.519', 'text': 'this is uh this is the kind of science'}, {'start': '820.399', 'end': '825.920', 'text': 'that uh Zikovich was doing. He was on'}, {'start': '823.519', 'end': '828.800', 'text': 'board. He was examining whale corpses.'}, {'start': '825.920', 'end': '831.120', 'text': 'He was measuring them. He was talking'}, {'start': '828.800', 'end': '833.600', 'text': 'about the number of fetuses that he was'}, {'start': '831.120', 'end': '835.200', 'text': 'finding. He was also educating people on'}, {'start': '833.600', 'end': '837.839', 'text': 'board. This is one of the ideals of the'}, {'start': '835.200', 'end': '839.920', 'text': 'Soviet Union that everybody should be an'}, {'start': '837.839', 'end': '842.079', 'text': 'expert, not just the experts, but that'}, {'start': '839.920', 'end': '844.320', 'text': 'actually average ordinary workers should'}, {'start': '842.079', 'end': '846.000', 'text': 'know everything about Wales as well. St.'}, {'start': '844.320', 'end': '849.199', 'text': 'Kovich talks about staying up late at'}, {'start': '846.000', 'end': '851.360', 'text': 'night in the frankly really impoverished'}, {'start': '849.199', 'end': '852.880', 'text': 'miserable conditions on board the alley.'}, {'start': '851.360', 'end': '855.440', 'text': 'There were rats and cockroaches'}, {'start': '852.880', 'end': '858.240', 'text': 'everywhere uh and staying up very late'}, {'start': '855.440', 'end': '860.639', 'text': 'at night in the cold giving lectures on'}, {'start': '858.240', 'end': '864.160', 'text': 'the history of whaling and whale biology'}, {'start': '860.639', 'end': '867.800', 'text': 'etc. the very interested uh workers of'}, {'start': '864.160', 'end': '870.959', 'text': 'the Russian Far East.'}, {'start': '867.800', 'end': '876.160', 'text': 'Now, in some ways, right, he was there,'}, {'start': '870.959', 'end': '879.680', 'text': 'as I said, to be a kind of uh economic'}, {'start': '876.160', 'end': '882.160', 'text': 'advisor, helping locate where the where'}, {'start': '879.680', 'end': '884.240', 'text': 'the migratory paths of whales were along'}, {'start': '882.160', 'end': '886.480', 'text': 'the coast. But, of course, by necessity,'}, {'start': '884.240', 'end': '888.399', 'text': 'he was also just a keen observer of'}, {'start': '886.480', 'end': '890.880', 'text': 'whales. These are some of the drawings'}, {'start': '888.399', 'end': '893.360', 'text': 'um from his book around the world for'}, {'start': '890.880', 'end': '895.600', 'text': 'whales. You see grey whales over here uh'}, {'start': '893.360', 'end': '897.240', 'text': 'and sperm whales over there that the'}, {'start': '895.600', 'end': '901.120', 'text': 'aliot was catching both'}, {'start': '897.240', 'end': '907.199', 'text': 'species and Zincovich um you know'}, {'start': '901.120', 'end': '909.680', 'text': 'Zenovich had much more than a purely'}, {'start': '907.199', 'end': '912.160', 'text': 'instrumentless view of these royals. He'}, {'start': '909.680', 'end': '914.880', 'text': 'often was actually quite touched by what'}, {'start': '912.160', 'end': '919.360', 'text': 'he saw. He described many things like'}, {'start': '914.880', 'end': '922.079', 'text': 'this. A calf lightly wounded on its'}, {'start': '919.360', 'end': '923.600', 'text': 'codle pedle and its mother made no'}, {'start': '922.079', 'end': '925.680', 'text': 'attempt to attack the whale boat. She'}, {'start': '923.600', 'end': '927.920', 'text': 'just let herself die as she would not'}, {'start': '925.680', 'end': '930.160', 'text': 'leave her calf but literally clung to'}, {'start': '927.920', 'end': '932.320', 'text': 'it. We killed her from a very short'}, {'start': '930.160', 'end': '934.880', 'text': 'distance with two shots. She made no'}, {'start': '932.320', 'end': '937.600', 'text': 'defensive attempts, not even wounded.'}, {'start': '934.880', 'end': '940.160', 'text': 'this kind of picture of you know whales'}, {'start': '937.600', 'end': '942.480', 'text': 'suffering as they were killed of whales'}, {'start': '940.160', 'end': '945.600', 'text': "coming to each other's aid not just"}, {'start': '942.480', 'end': '947.680', 'text': 'mother whales he felt like humpback'}, {'start': '945.600', 'end': '951.040', 'text': 'humpback the male would come to the'}, {'start': '947.680', 'end': '953.600', 'text': 'assistance of a female humpback right or'}, {'start': '951.040', 'end': '955.120', 'text': "wrong that's what he was perceiving so"}, {'start': '953.600', 'end': '957.920', 'text': 'even though he was there as really a'}, {'start': '955.120', 'end': '960.240', 'text': 'fisheries biologist you know he was'}, {'start': '957.920', 'end': '963.920', 'text': 'became pretty deeply immersed in the'}, {'start': '960.240', 'end': '967.160', 'text': 'kind of uh ethology of these animals at'}, {'start': '963.920', 'end': '971.519', 'text': 'the same time. And in'}, {'start': '967.160', 'end': '973.279', 'text': '1937, when he noticed that the sizes of'}, {'start': '971.519', 'end': '976.560', 'text': 'grey whales were getting smaller and'}, {'start': '973.279', 'end': '980.000', 'text': 'smaller and smaller, he council the ali'}, {'start': '976.560', 'end': '983.839', 'text': 'the directors of the ali uh to stop'}, {'start': '980.000', 'end': '987.120', 'text': 'paying bonuses to those gunners who shot'}, {'start': '983.839', 'end': '988.800', 'text': 'grey whales. Uh and they actually went'}, {'start': '987.120', 'end': '990.639', 'text': 'through with this uh and they stopped'}, {'start': '988.800', 'end': '992.560', 'text': 'catching grey whites for a number of'}, {'start': '990.639', 'end': '994.480', 'text': 'years. In fact, very well numbers were'}, {'start': '992.560', 'end': '997.199', 'text': 'declining precipitously at that time in'}, {'start': '994.480', 'end': '998.880', 'text': 'part because of hunting in other parts'}, {'start': '997.199', 'end': '1002.199', 'text': 'of the North Pacific and would shortly'}, {'start': '998.880', 'end': '1005.000', 'text': 'be protected um by international'}, {'start': '1002.199', 'end': '1010.399', 'text': 'regulation. Uh so in some'}, {'start': '1005.000', 'end': '1013.360', 'text': 'ways fulfill the ideas uh that Soviet'}, {'start': '1010.399', 'end': '1015.440', 'text': 'whale science were supposed to fulfill.'}, {'start': '1013.360', 'end': '1019.519', 'text': 'um he helped with catches but also'}, {'start': '1015.440', 'end': '1022.079', 'text': 'helped uh give some kind of caution uh'}, {'start': '1019.519', 'end': '1025.760', 'text': 'when the catches uh when the system was'}, {'start': '1022.079', 'end': '1028.000', 'text': 'seemingly coming under stress.'}, {'start': '1025.760', 'end': '1029.760', 'text': 'I I want to talk about one more whale'}, {'start': '1028.000', 'end': '1032.400', 'text': 'biologist from this time period and just'}, {'start': '1029.760', 'end': '1035.520', 'text': 'say that you know the this interest in'}, {'start': '1032.400', 'end': '1037.919', 'text': 'animal altruism which I that came from a'}, {'start': '1035.520', 'end': '1040.280', 'text': 'pre-revolutionary tradition certainly'}, {'start': '1037.919', 'end': '1044.000', 'text': 'continue to see it in the work of'}, {'start': '1040.280', 'end': '1046.160', 'text': 'inco one whale uh might sacrifice its'}, {'start': '1044.000', 'end': '1049.039', 'text': 'belt for another also interested in'}, {'start': '1046.160', 'end': '1050.799', 'text': 'things like play and no one um there'}, {'start': '1049.039', 'end': '1052.240', 'text': 'there were studies done on captive'}, {'start': '1050.799', 'end': '1056.320', 'text': 'dolphins a little bit later which'}, {'start': '1052.240', 'end': '1056.320', 'text': 'emphasized these points and no one'}, {'start': '1056.919', 'end': '1063.280', 'text': 'really epitomize these kinds of ideas'}, {'start': '1059.919', 'end': '1066.080', 'text': "better than a friend of Zenovich's a man"}, {'start': '1063.280', 'end': '1067.840', 'text': 'by the name of of Gregorich Tamilan who'}, {'start': '1066.080', 'end': '1070.360', 'text': 'would probably be he would certainly be'}, {'start': '1067.840', 'end': '1073.200', 'text': 'the longest lasting'}, {'start': '1070.360', 'end': '1075.760', 'text': 'Soviet and had a pretty interesting'}, {'start': '1073.200', 'end': '1079.320', 'text': "career arc I'll start you with him in"}, {'start': '1075.760', 'end': '1082.640', 'text': 'the 1930s he sailed on the alley as'}, {'start': '1079.320', 'end': '1086.080', 'text': 'well he was very interested to try to'}, {'start': '1082.640', 'end': '1088.960', 'text': 'understand why when they harked on one'}, {'start': '1086.080', 'end': '1090.799', 'text': 'sperm whale and a whole herd of sperm'}, {'start': '1088.960', 'end': '1093.200', 'text': "whales that they hadn't seen would come"}, {'start': '1090.799', 'end': '1094.559', 'text': 'seemingly to its aid from very far away'}, {'start': '1093.200', 'end': '1097.039', 'text': 'and thought okay there must be these'}, {'start': '1094.559', 'end': '1101.000', 'text': 'these whales clearly communicating in'}, {'start': '1097.039', 'end': '1104.520', 'text': 'some way under the ocean. Uh Tamilan in'}, {'start': '1101.000', 'end': '1107.440', 'text': '1937 moved the Black Sea'}, {'start': '1104.520', 'end': '1111.120', 'text': 'European where he was studying uh what'}, {'start': '1107.440', 'end': '1114.480', 'text': 'was then a relatively small dolphin'}, {'start': '1111.120', 'end': '1116.880', 'text': 'hunting industry. And what Tamilan'}, {'start': '1114.480', 'end': '1119.360', 'text': 'noticed was was interesting but some'}, {'start': '1116.880', 'end': '1121.679', 'text': 'horrible which is that as they rounded'}, {'start': '1119.360', 'end': '1124.000', 'text': 'up schools of dolphins they met schools'}, {'start': '1121.679', 'end': '1126.520', 'text': 'of dolphins. uh he would watch when the'}, {'start': '1124.000', 'end': '1130.360', 'text': 'pull of sleep and what he noticed was'}, {'start': '1126.520', 'end': '1133.360', 'text': 'that dolphins especially mother and calf'}, {'start': '1130.360', 'end': '1135.840', 'text': 'pairs seem to be able to find each other'}, {'start': '1133.360', 'end': '1139.679', 'text': 'if say a calf was inside a state. I mean'}, {'start': '1135.840', 'end': '1143.280', 'text': 'imagine just like a churning branded pot'}, {'start': '1139.679', 'end': '1146.480', 'text': 'of dolphins without kill uh just total'}, {'start': '1143.280', 'end': '1149.360', 'text': 'chaos. uh the mother somehow would be'}, {'start': '1146.480', 'end': '1153.200', 'text': 'able to find its calf inside these'}, {'start': '1149.360', 'end': '1156.120', 'text': 'nests. And Tamilan hypothesized that'}, {'start': '1153.200', 'end': '1159.679', 'text': 'there must be something some kind of'}, {'start': '1156.120', 'end': '1161.919', 'text': 'distinctive sound uh that each dolphin'}, {'start': '1159.679', 'end': '1165.039', 'text': 'is making to allow these kinds of'}, {'start': '1161.919', 'end': '1167.679', 'text': 'associations uh to be made. You know,'}, {'start': '1165.039', 'end': '1169.360', 'text': 'something that scientists would later'}, {'start': '1167.679', 'end': '1172.480', 'text': 'talk about in terms of signature'}, {'start': '1169.360', 'end': '1174.480', 'text': 'whistles amongst dolphins. Tamilan uh'}, {'start': '1172.480', 'end': '1176.320', 'text': 'one of the first really in the world to'}, {'start': '1174.480', 'end': '1178.799', 'text': 'pay attention to this these kinds of'}, {'start': '1176.320', 'end': '1181.760', 'text': 'dolphin communication systems of course'}, {'start': '1178.799', 'end': '1185.120', 'text': 'under pretty horrible circumstances it'}, {'start': '1181.760', 'end': '1187.440', 'text': 'must be said and one thing I find really'}, {'start': '1185.120', 'end': '1190.000', 'text': "interesting you know if you if you're"}, {'start': '1187.440', 'end': '1192.559', 'text': 'interested in the history of uh this'}, {'start': '1190.000', 'end': '1195.679', 'text': 'kind of turn towards the idea of saving'}, {'start': '1192.559', 'end': '1198.080', 'text': 'whales uh whale communication whale'}, {'start': '1195.679', 'end': '1200.400', 'text': 'sounds have always played a big role in'}, {'start': '1198.080', 'end': '1203.120', 'text': 'think of Roger Ping recording on that'}, {'start': '1200.400', 'end': '1205.760', 'text': 'song And when when people heard whales,'}, {'start': '1203.120', 'end': '1207.679', 'text': 'when they understood that dolphins can'}, {'start': '1205.760', 'end': '1208.960', 'text': 'communicate in sophisticated ways with'}, {'start': '1207.679', 'end': '1212.600', 'text': 'each other, that was one of the things'}, {'start': '1208.960', 'end': '1214.799', 'text': 'where people really'}, {'start': '1212.600', 'end': '1217.160', 'text': 'rethought the idea of killing these'}, {'start': '1214.799', 'end': '1220.880', 'text': 'animals where some people'}, {'start': '1217.160', 'end': '1224.360', 'text': 'absolutely not for Tamil actually had an'}, {'start': '1220.880', 'end': '1227.360', 'text': 'opposite idea. So, I really thought,'}, {'start': '1224.360', 'end': '1228.919', 'text': 'no, given what we what we understand'}, {'start': '1227.360', 'end': '1231.600', 'text': 'about citation'}, {'start': '1228.919', 'end': '1234.240', 'text': "communication, wouldn't it be cool if we"}, {'start': '1231.600', 'end': '1236.640', 'text': 'could imitate their sounds and just call'}, {'start': '1234.240', 'end': '1239.360', 'text': 'them to the catcher boat uh and then'}, {'start': '1236.640', 'end': '1241.600', 'text': 'just kill them much more easily this'}, {'start': '1239.360', 'end': '1243.440', 'text': "way. Uh, and that's what he said. If we"}, {'start': '1241.600', 'end': '1245.280', 'text': 'imitate the signals which elicit'}, {'start': '1243.440', 'end': '1247.200', 'text': 'responses from this or that species of'}, {'start': '1245.280', 'end': '1249.039', 'text': 'dolphins or made by wounded whales,'}, {'start': '1247.200', 'end': '1251.039', 'text': 'clear that these sounds can attract'}, {'start': '1249.039', 'end': '1253.280', 'text': 'corresponding animals towards the'}, {'start': '1251.039', 'end': '1256.400', 'text': 'hunting boats. Oh, not this is the way'}, {'start': '1253.280', 'end': '1258.320', 'text': 'to whale. Forget chasing them. Just call'}, {'start': '1256.400', 'end': '1260.400', 'text': 'them to the boat. It never really worked'}, {'start': '1258.320', 'end': '1262.960', 'text': 'out uh for the Soviets, but it is an'}, {'start': '1260.400', 'end': '1265.760', 'text': 'interesting moment. Clearly, the kind of'}, {'start': '1262.960', 'end': '1267.520', 'text': 'context in which one uh is exposed to'}, {'start': '1265.760', 'end': '1270.159', 'text': 'whale sounds makes a very big difference'}, {'start': '1267.520', 'end': '1271.200', 'text': 'in how you might think about them. Tommy'}, {'start': '1270.159', 'end': '1272.640', 'text': 'thought about them very differently.'}, {'start': '1271.200', 'end': '1274.720', 'text': "I'll come back to Tommy Ellen because I"}, {'start': '1272.640', 'end': '1279.120', 'text': "think he's an interesting guy. By the"}, {'start': '1274.720', 'end': '1279.120', 'text': 'way, he would uh'}, {'start': '1280.840', 'end': '1284.400', 'text': 'in train'}, {'start': '1287.240', 'end': '1292.559', 'text': 'dogs underneath them to protect Moscow.'}, {'start': '1290.320', 'end': '1294.240', 'text': 'So he had a real facility with family'}, {'start': '1292.559', 'end': '1295.640', 'text': 'communication uh which he used'}, {'start': '1294.240', 'end': '1298.960', 'text': 'throughout his'}, {'start': '1295.640', 'end': '1299.799', 'text': "career. Okay. So uh I've been talking a"}, {'start': '1298.960', 'end': '1303.280', 'text': 'little'}, {'start': '1299.799', 'end': '1303.280', 'text': 'about etc.'}, {'start': '1305.480', 'end': '1311.559', 'text': "Well, that's turbulent by many"}, {'start': '1309.200', 'end': '1313.400', 'text': 'revolutions of'}, {'start': '1311.559', 'end': '1317.440', 'text': 'one in'}, {'start': '1313.400', 'end': '1320.720', 'text': '1937 and 1938 as what historians think'}, {'start': '1317.440', 'end': '1323.679', 'text': "of Stalin's great purges in which Joseph"}, {'start': '1320.720', 'end': '1327.200', 'text': 'Stan who come to power in the late 20s'}, {'start': '1323.679', 'end': '1329.520', 'text': 'uh purged the Soviet Union mostly old'}, {'start': '1327.200', 'end': '1331.600', 'text': 'revolutionary over a million people were'}, {'start': '1329.520', 'end': '1334.159', 'text': 'killed most'}, {'start': '1331.600', 'end': '1337.480', 'text': 'Communist party and that hit the whaling'}, {'start': '1334.159', 'end': '1340.559', 'text': 'fleet in 1938. It hit that part of'}, {'start': '1337.480', 'end': '1343.679', 'text': 'Russia civic side very far away from'}, {'start': '1340.559', 'end': '1346.159', 'text': 'Moscow particularly hard by per more'}, {'start': '1343.679', 'end': '1348.240', 'text': 'people died there than anywhere else in'}, {'start': '1346.159', 'end': '1350.240', 'text': 'the Soviet Union in these years. And'}, {'start': '1348.240', 'end': '1351.559', 'text': 'this was the capital of the ali man by'}, {'start': '1350.240', 'end': '1355.200', 'text': 'the name'}, {'start': '1351.559', 'end': '1358.640', 'text': 'of uh he was thrown. So because he was'}, {'start': '1355.200', 'end': '1362.320', 'text': 'just about to sail in 1938, AG officer'}, {'start': '1358.640', 'end': '1364.880', 'text': 'showed up then uh and arrested him said'}, {'start': '1362.320', 'end': '1366.080', 'text': "you've been sabotaging Soviet whailing"}, {'start': '1364.880', 'end': '1368.799', 'text': "effort. You've been deliberately"}, {'start': '1366.080', 'end': '1370.720', 'text': 'catching too few whales so that you can'}, {'start': '1368.799', 'end': '1372.880', 'text': 'sell the fleet to the Japanese our'}, {'start': '1370.720', 'end': '1374.200', 'text': 'future enemies and destroy the Soviet'}, {'start': '1372.880', 'end': '1377.840', 'text': 'Union'}, {'start': '1374.200', 'end': '1379.760', 'text': 'from crazy accusations were going'}, {'start': '1377.840', 'end': '1381.440', 'text': 'everywhere in the Soviet Union at the'}, {'start': '1379.760', 'end': '1382.320', 'text': "time. That that's his son over there by"}, {'start': '1381.440', 'end': '1384.320', 'text': 'the way.'}, {'start': '1382.320', 'end': '1386.799', 'text': 'Dudik survived amazingly. He was in'}, {'start': '1384.320', 'end': '1389.039', 'text': 'prison for a few years. Uh he had one'}, {'start': '1386.799', 'end': '1391.120', 'text': 'other child who died while he was in'}, {'start': '1389.039', 'end': '1394.480', 'text': 'prison, but he come back. But many'}, {'start': '1391.120', 'end': '1396.799', 'text': 'people on the alley did not. Uh and it'}, {'start': '1394.480', 'end': '1398.640', 'text': 'was in part precisely because they had'}, {'start': '1396.799', 'end': '1400.720', 'text': 'stopped catching these grey whales that'}, {'start': '1398.640', 'end': '1403.919', 'text': 'they had come under suspicion that their'}, {'start': '1400.720', 'end': '1406.080', 'text': 'their the catches were not growing uh'}, {'start': '1403.919', 'end': '1409.120', 'text': 'quickly enough. This was obviously a'}, {'start': '1406.080', 'end': '1414.400', 'text': 'blow towards the ideas that you could'}, {'start': '1409.120', 'end': '1416.760', 'text': 'follow the scientific uh ideas that were'}, {'start': '1414.400', 'end': '1420.919', 'text': 'here to'}, {'start': '1416.760', 'end': '1422.840', 'text': "prod. All right, I'm skipp"}, {'start': '1420.919', 'end': '1427.679', 'text': 'work'}, {'start': '1422.840', 'end': '1428.960', 'text': 'and talk about you know what for most'}, {'start': '1427.679', 'end': '1430.480', 'text': 'people in the Soviet Union most'}, {'start': '1428.960', 'end': '1432.080', 'text': 'scientists in the Soviet Union was was'}, {'start': '1430.480', 'end': '1435.120', 'text': 'really one of the most most difficult'}, {'start': '1432.080', 'end': '1437.440', 'text': 'moments connected and has a lot of'}, {'start': '1435.120', 'end': '1441.120', 'text': 'connections to the waving industry as'}, {'start': '1437.440', 'end': '1442.760', 'text': 'well. Uh that was the the appointment of'}, {'start': '1441.120', 'end': '1447.120', 'text': 'this'}, {'start': '1442.760', 'end': '1448.799', 'text': 'man scientist Dr. Latino to the director'}, {'start': '1447.120', 'end': '1452.000', 'text': 'of the Institute of Genetics of the'}, {'start': '1448.799', 'end': '1454.559', 'text': 'Soviet Academy of Sciences. And uh Lasco'}, {'start': '1452.000', 'end': '1459.159', 'text': 'was was appointed personally by Joseph'}, {'start': '1454.559', 'end': '1462.600', 'text': 'Stalin uh to to head what Stalin'}, {'start': '1459.159', 'end': '1465.200', 'text': 'envisioned as what he called the great'}, {'start': '1462.600', 'end': '1467.679', 'text': 'transformation of nature. It was these'}, {'start': '1465.200', 'end': '1470.080', 'text': 'grandio plans that emerged in the wake'}, {'start': '1467.679', 'end': '1474.080', 'text': 'of the second world war uh to really'}, {'start': '1470.080', 'end': '1476.640', 'text': 'remake the entire Russian ecosystem. In'}, {'start': '1474.080', 'end': '1478.720', 'text': 'many ways that we might see us and some'}, {'start': '1476.640', 'end': '1481.120', 'text': "I've wrote a book book about this as"}, {'start': '1478.720', 'end': '1484.559', 'text': 'sort of progressive environmentally the'}, {'start': '1481.120', 'end': '1486.480', 'text': 'idea of reforesting uh or maybe forcing'}, {'start': '1484.559', 'end': '1489.679', 'text': 'for the first time really drive Russian'}, {'start': '1486.480', 'end': '1492.000', 'text': 'step in order to increase agricultural'}, {'start': '1489.679', 'end': '1494.640', 'text': 'production things like that. Solen'}, {'start': '1492.000', 'end': '1496.799', 'text': 'thought that we needed you dramatically'}, {'start': '1494.640', 'end': '1500.320', 'text': 'more food production for what was then a'}, {'start': '1496.799', 'end': '1502.000', 'text': 'very poor starving Soviet people. And'}, {'start': '1500.320', 'end': '1504.559', 'text': 'Liko'}, {'start': '1502.000', 'end': '1507.600', 'text': 'uh was the man who told Solomon what he'}, {'start': '1504.559', 'end': '1510.640', 'text': 'wanted to do which was that nature was'}, {'start': '1507.600', 'end': '1513.760', 'text': 'really endlessly malleable and he based'}, {'start': '1510.640', 'end': '1515.919', 'text': 'this idea on a kind of rehashing'}, {'start': '1513.760', 'end': '1518.240', 'text': 'reworking of Lamarian evolution. of'}, {'start': '1515.919', 'end': '1521.520', 'text': 'course the idea that uh traits acquired'}, {'start': '1518.240', 'end': '1524.640', 'text': 'in a lifetime that can be passed on uh'}, {'start': '1521.520', 'end': '1527.440', 'text': "to one's descendants and this had large"}, {'start': '1524.640', 'end': '1528.559', 'text': 'great appeal uh for Stalin and others'}, {'start': '1527.440', 'end': '1530.880', 'text': 'because it meant that you could for'}, {'start': '1528.559', 'end': '1535.200', 'text': 'example training crops to become drought'}, {'start': '1530.880', 'end': '1537.360', 'text': 'resistant uh given and and also the seco'}, {'start': '1535.200', 'end': '1540.320', 'text': 'believed in the kind of mutualism the'}, {'start': '1537.360', 'end': '1542.880', 'text': 'altruism uh between plants uh if you'}, {'start': '1540.320', 'end': '1544.799', 'text': 'planted plants certain plants together'}, {'start': '1542.880', 'end': '1547.760', 'text': 'uh they would help each other grow not'}, {'start': '1544.799', 'end': '1550.559', 'text': 'compete with each other and Linko was'}, {'start': '1547.760', 'end': '1553.880', 'text': 'key in planning stones. Many of his'}, {'start': '1550.559', 'end': '1556.640', 'text': 'attempts to remade Soviet'}, {'start': '1553.880', 'end': '1560.159', 'text': 'nature. A lot of people found Laranism'}, {'start': '1556.640', 'end': '1562.320', 'text': 'to be extinct, right? Fully discredited.'}, {'start': '1560.159', 'end': '1564.960', 'text': 'Uh but they had to go along with it and'}, {'start': '1562.320', 'end': '1567.360', 'text': 'sink enjoyed that kind of power. The the'}, {'start': '1564.960', 'end': '1569.279', 'text': '1940s, especially the late 1940s in the'}, {'start': '1567.360', 'end': '1571.279', 'text': 'Soviet Union was really the kind of'}, {'start': '1569.279', 'end': '1573.279', 'text': "apogee of Scolman's power as it was"}, {'start': '1571.279', 'end': '1576.080', 'text': 'losing these mental facilities at the'}, {'start': '1573.279', 'end': '1579.600', 'text': 'same time. uh and uh it was the the'}, {'start': '1576.080', 'end': '1584.000', 'text': 'apogee of sort of terrorized scientists'}, {'start': '1579.600', 'end': '1587.039', 'text': 'there. It was also the the rebirth of uh'}, {'start': '1584.000', 'end': '1589.200', 'text': 'and the expansion of the Soviet whale'}, {'start': '1587.039', 'end': '1591.279', 'text': 'namely to the Antarctica was connected'}, {'start': '1589.200', 'end': '1593.600', 'text': 'with World War II as well. The Soviets'}, {'start': '1591.279', 'end': '1596.080', 'text': 'as a war horizon took over an old Nazi'}, {'start': '1593.600', 'end': '1598.080', 'text': 'whaler uh the Vikinger which they'}, {'start': '1596.080', 'end': '1600.640', 'text': 'renamed Slava. Here you see a postcard'}, {'start': '1598.080', 'end': '1603.520', 'text': "celebrating the Slava's arrival in the"}, {'start': '1600.640', 'end': '1605.919', 'text': 'Antarctic which was the preeminent'}, {'start': '1603.520', 'end': '1609.120', 'text': 'whailing ground in the world had been'}, {'start': '1605.919', 'end': '1612.480', 'text': 'since the 1910s. Uh and the Soviets had'}, {'start': '1609.120', 'end': '1614.720', 'text': 'not been part of it. Now they were uh'}, {'start': '1612.480', 'end': '1617.120', 'text': 'this allowed them to enter this'}, {'start': '1614.720', 'end': '1618.880', 'text': 'preeminent whailing ground. Uh they were'}, {'start': '1617.120', 'end': '1620.480', 'text': 'also by the way signitories to the'}, {'start': '1618.880', 'end': '1624.400', 'text': 'international whailing convention in'}, {'start': '1620.480', 'end': '1626.799', 'text': '1946 uh in which they agreed to abide by'}, {'start': '1624.400', 'end': '1630.400', 'text': 'certain limits to catches that would'}, {'start': '1626.799', 'end': '1632.880', 'text': 'take place uh around the world. Okay. So'}, {'start': '1630.400', 'end': '1633.960', 'text': 'these two things came together uh to'}, {'start': '1632.880', 'end': '1638.799', 'text': 'really'}, {'start': '1633.960', 'end': '1638.799', 'text': 'shape Soviet web science in the'}, {'start': '1640.600', 'end': '1646.159', 'text': '19 people who who work on these'}, {'start': '1643.919', 'end': '1649.880', 'text': 'conditions. The first one um fairly'}, {'start': '1646.159', 'end': '1652.480', 'text': 'obscure Soviet satologist by the name of'}, {'start': '1649.880', 'end': '1654.559', 'text': "Maritanov. So I'm told I don't know much"}, {'start': '1652.480', 'end': '1657.279', 'text': 'about in he seemed to be a very shy'}, {'start': '1654.559', 'end': '1660.799', 'text': 'person. Uh his students at least said he'}, {'start': '1657.279', 'end': '1663.120', 'text': "was wickedly funny. I don't know but"}, {'start': '1660.799', 'end': '1665.360', 'text': 'apparently uh he he had a kind of'}, {'start': '1663.120', 'end': '1668.400', 'text': 'subversive streak to him which tell you'}, {'start': '1665.360', 'end': '1671.440', 'text': 'that I indeed he did have at least some'}, {'start': '1668.400', 'end': '1673.840', 'text': 'subversion in him. He was assigned to'}, {'start': '1671.440', 'end': '1676.600', 'text': 'one of the whaling stations on the curl'}, {'start': '1673.840', 'end': '1680.320', 'text': 'islands which would have taken from'}, {'start': '1676.600', 'end': '1682.279', 'text': 'Japan after the separation. The curls by'}, {'start': '1680.320', 'end': '1685.559', 'text': 'the way'}, {'start': '1682.279', 'end': '1689.120', 'text': 'down to the northern'}, {'start': '1685.559', 'end': '1691.360', 'text': 'Japanese. And this this is the padori'}, {'start': '1689.120', 'end': '1695.039', 'text': 'whailing station which said was Japanese'}, {'start': '1691.360', 'end': '1698.000', 'text': 'then became Soviet. and Slaptop studied'}, {'start': '1695.039', 'end': '1701.440', 'text': 'uh the the the mingling of two currents'}, {'start': '1698.000', 'end': '1702.880', 'text': 'there, the OIO and Kurosio and clearly'}, {'start': '1701.440', 'end': '1705.919', 'text': 'just kind of fell in love with this'}, {'start': '1702.880', 'end': '1708.240', 'text': 'area. He he went on and then these dry'}, {'start': '1705.919', 'end': '1711.440', 'text': 'uh technical treatises. You talked about'}, {'start': '1708.240', 'end': '1714.799', 'text': 'this amazing zones of fertility where so'}, {'start': '1711.440', 'end': '1717.080', 'text': 'much plankton etc was uh was gathered'}, {'start': '1714.799', 'end': '1719.440', 'text': 'together uh that you had'}, {'start': '1717.080', 'end': '1721.919', 'text': 'unbelievable explosions of sea life'}, {'start': '1719.440', 'end': '1724.880', 'text': 'including large numbers of sperm whales'}, {'start': '1721.919', 'end': '1728.799', 'text': 'that he was mostly studying and that his'}, {'start': '1724.880', 'end': '1729.480', 'text': 'station was catching at the same time.'}, {'start': '1728.799', 'end': '1733.279', 'text': 'uh'}, {'start': '1729.480', 'end': '1735.360', 'text': 'Sleptov uh yeah so I mean one of the'}, {'start': '1733.279', 'end': '1738.880', 'text': 'interesting things that Sleptov claimed'}, {'start': '1735.360', 'end': '1741.080', 'text': 'here was that actually the current'}, {'start': '1738.880', 'end': '1745.279', 'text': 'system was so unpredictable that'}, {'start': '1741.080', 'end': '1748.080', 'text': "Stenchinsk's ideas of bioinosis"}, {'start': '1745.279', 'end': '1751.039', 'text': "uh really couldn't apply to um that"}, {'start': '1748.080', 'end': '1753.399', 'text': 'ocean oceanography was too complex or'}, {'start': '1751.039', 'end': '1756.720', 'text': 'much more complex than the terrestrial'}, {'start': '1753.399', 'end': '1760.559', 'text': 'ecosystems and there was no real way to'}, {'start': '1756.720', 'end': '1763.200', 'text': 'plan whaling catches all that carefully'}, {'start': '1760.559', 'end': '1766.080', 'text': 'as a result. So he cast doubt at the'}, {'start': '1763.200', 'end': '1767.919', 'text': 'same time that Minko was saying we can'}, {'start': '1766.080', 'end': '1771.360', 'text': 'do whatever we want with the natural'}, {'start': '1767.919', 'end': '1773.600', 'text': "world. Uh so that's what was inserting a"}, {'start': '1771.360', 'end': '1775.360', 'text': 'kind of cautionary note here. Uh before'}, {'start': '1773.600', 'end': '1777.679', 'text': 'I talk about another way that I just'}, {'start': '1775.360', 'end': '1778.880', 'text': "want to there's a little bit to the side"}, {'start': '1777.679', 'end': '1780.880', 'text': 'but I got to tell you about this'}, {'start': '1778.880', 'end': '1784.399', 'text': 'whailing station here. Uh it was'}, {'start': '1780.880', 'end': '1786.720', 'text': "destroyed in the tsunami in 1952. It's"}, {'start': '1784.399', 'end': '1790.559', 'text': 'very hard to find any information about'}, {'start': '1786.720', 'end': '1793.840', 'text': 'that tsunami pisted military zone. Uh so'}, {'start': '1790.559', 'end': '1796.480', 'text': "it's accumulated all sorts of legends."}, {'start': '1793.840', 'end': '1798.360', 'text': 'One of the things I found a most of the'}, {'start': '1796.480', 'end': '1801.520', 'text': 'workers of this wind station died in the'}, {'start': '1798.360', 'end': '1803.440', 'text': 'tsunami. One thing I found was this this'}, {'start': '1801.520', 'end': '1805.840', 'text': 'photograph claims to be a blue whale was'}, {'start': '1803.440', 'end': '1807.039', 'text': 'washed ashore during the tsunami. I'}, {'start': '1805.840', 'end': '1809.279', 'text': "don't know. I've studied this picture"}, {'start': '1807.039', 'end': '1811.440', 'text': 'for a while. does seem to be sort of'}, {'start': '1809.279', 'end': '1814.240', 'text': 'maybe destroyed up there. But how did'}, {'start': '1811.440', 'end': '1816.559', 'text': 'this thing land on the flimsy net? I'}, {'start': '1814.240', 'end': '1818.159', 'text': 'just have to wonder that the tsunami'}, {'start': '1816.559', 'end': '1820.679', 'text': 'picked it up and put it right where it'}, {'start': '1818.159', 'end': '1823.440', 'text': "was about to be processed. It's pretty"}, {'start': '1820.679', 'end': '1826.320', 'text': 'amazing. Uh and this is the only picture'}, {'start': '1823.440', 'end': '1830.320', 'text': "I've ever tuni which I think it happened"}, {'start': '1826.320', 'end': '1833.279', 'text': 'at night. So I I cast some doubts on the'}, {'start': '1830.320', 'end': '1835.679', 'text': 'the historical accuracy of the depiction'}, {'start': '1833.279', 'end': '1837.600', 'text': 'of the tsunami. The accuracy of'}, {'start': '1835.679', 'end': '1839.840', 'text': 'historical data is one of the themes'}, {'start': '1837.600', 'end': '1842.399', 'text': 'going forward here as well. But okay,'}, {'start': '1839.840', 'end': '1844.960', 'text': "that's that's a little bit to the side."}, {'start': '1842.399', 'end': '1847.520', 'text': 'I want to say I want to tell you about'}, {'start': '1844.960', 'end': '1851.840', 'text': 'how slot navig'}, {'start': '1847.520', 'end': '1851.840', 'text': 'um working to find'}, {'start': '1857.799', 'end': '1868.000', 'text': 'dict and in 48 interesting'}, {'start': '1863.320', 'end': '1868.000', 'text': 'stuff he talks on and on'}, {'start': '1868.120', 'end': '1875.120', 'text': 'how stop in'}, {'start': '1871.240', 'end': '1877.679', 'text': 'danger the sew note sad picture of a'}, {'start': '1875.120', 'end': '1880.159', 'text': "thousand years letter of whales. I don't"}, {'start': '1877.679', 'end': '1882.559', 'text': 'think he chose the cover, by the way, of'}, {'start': '1880.159', 'end': '1885.039', 'text': "this one because it it it doesn't work"}, {'start': '1882.559', 'end': '1887.919', 'text': "with his his theme. Here's what I found"}, {'start': '1885.039', 'end': '1887.919', 'text': 'interesting. First of'}, {'start': '1888.200', 'end': '1891.600', 'text': 'all, he talks'}, {'start': '1895.799', 'end': '1899.679', 'text': 'about I perked up when I'}, {'start': '1904.440', 'end': '1909.679', 'text': 'saw8 Russian furniture for'}, {'start': '1910.760', 'end': '1916.640', 'text': 'food'}, {'start': '1912.279', 'end': '1920.480', 'text': 'and but you so you was you could not say'}, {'start': '1916.640', 'end': '1922.640', 'text': 'in 1948 to say that Russians drove a'}, {'start': '1920.480', 'end': '1926.240', 'text': 'species to extinction that was'}, {'start': '1922.640', 'end': '1928.440', 'text': 'absolutely impossible in the kind of'}, {'start': '1926.240', 'end': '1930.640', 'text': 'what they called the anti-cossmopolitan'}, {'start': '1928.440', 'end': '1932.399', 'text': 'campaign. So I mean I laughed out loud'}, {'start': '1930.640', 'end': '1936.279', 'text': 'when I read this and said well the sea'}, {'start': '1932.399', 'end': '1938.640', 'text': 'cow was killed in the 19th century by'}, {'start': '1936.279', 'end': '1940.279', 'text': 'Norwegians. How did Norwegians get to'}, {'start': '1938.640', 'end': '1943.519', 'text': 'the'}, {'start': '1940.279', 'end': '1946.720', 'text': 'north in the late 18th century? Clearly'}, {'start': '1943.519', 'end': '1949.360', 'text': 'he had to write this. This is just a he'}, {'start': '1946.720', 'end': '1952.080', 'text': 'knew this was I can only take this as a'}, {'start': '1949.360', 'end': '1954.480', 'text': 'joke. Um because this this but but it'}, {'start': '1952.080', 'end': '1956.480', 'text': 'gives you a sense of the kind of things'}, {'start': '1954.480', 'end': '1959.440', 'text': 'that people were forced to to do in the'}, {'start': '1956.480', 'end': '1964.320', 'text': 'Soviet. I found this so interesting when'}, {'start': '1959.440', 'end': '1967.519', 'text': 'he talked about the way that whales were'}, {'start': '1964.320', 'end': '1970.080', 'text': 'being hunted and over hunted around the'}, {'start': '1967.519', 'end': '1973.120', 'text': 'world. He went he deliberately adopted'}, {'start': '1970.080', 'end': '1974.640', 'text': 'the ideas of Lamarian evolution to talk'}, {'start': '1973.120', 'end': '1976.640', 'text': 'about them as he taught as he said you'}, {'start': '1974.640', 'end': '1978.399', 'text': 'know whales are capable of remembering'}, {'start': '1976.640', 'end': '1980.559', 'text': 'danger. He was trying to think about you'}, {'start': '1978.399', 'end': '1982.080', 'text': 'know why are whales harder and harder to'}, {'start': '1980.559', 'end': '1984.240', 'text': 'catch in different places? Why are they'}, {'start': '1982.080', 'end': '1986.080', 'text': 'so skittish so to speak possess'}, {'start': '1984.240', 'end': '1988.720', 'text': 'conditioned reflexes? This was the kind'}, {'start': '1986.080', 'end': '1990.919', 'text': 'of lucinuous um catch word one of those'}, {'start': '1988.720', 'end': '1994.240', 'text': 'buzzwords, right? You conditioned'}, {'start': '1990.919', 'end': '1996.880', 'text': 'reflexes. You do something uh you act in'}, {'start': '1994.240', 'end': '1999.200', 'text': 'a certain way. you um you you eat a lot'}, {'start': '1996.880', 'end': '2003.360', 'text': "of food because you're uh you know your"}, {'start': '1999.200', 'end': '2005.039', 'text': "mother's starving that you know things"}, {'start': '2003.360', 'end': '2007.840', 'text': 'ideas which by the way you know are sort'}, {'start': '2005.039', 'end': '2009.919', 'text': 'of we recognize from epigenetics today'}, {'start': '2007.840', 'end': '2011.760', 'text': 'maybe think it was completely wrong uh'}, {'start': '2009.919', 'end': '2014.000', 'text': 'but anyway the experience accumulated'}, {'start': '2011.760', 'end': '2016.799', 'text': 'through centuries fixes itself into the'}, {'start': '2014.000', 'end': '2019.320', 'text': "nervous system of the animals and it's"}, {'start': '2016.799', 'end': '2021.240', 'text': 'inherited in other words'}, {'start': '2019.320', 'end': '2025.519', 'text': 'what'}, {'start': '2021.240', 'end': '2027.679', 'text': 'very crafty manner here was that you'}, {'start': '2025.519', 'end': '2031.679', 'text': 'know whales are being transformed'}, {'start': '2027.679', 'end': '2033.919', 'text': "through human pursuit in a way uh that's"}, {'start': '2031.679', 'end': '2036.960', 'text': 'being inherited in their genetics'}, {'start': '2033.919', 'end': '2039.440', 'text': 'actually um through this secret idea'}, {'start': '2036.960', 'end': '2043.200', 'text': 'whales are we are actively transporting'}, {'start': '2039.440', 'end': '2046.960', 'text': 'the manual in a way uh by hunting as'}, {'start': '2043.200', 'end': '2049.520', 'text': 'well not necessarily in a good way uh so'}, {'start': '2046.960', 'end': '2052.000', 'text': 'he used these ideas turning them around'}, {'start': '2049.520', 'end': '2055.599', 'text': 'for subtly different purposes uh and'}, {'start': '2052.000', 'end': '2055.599', 'text': 'that something that I saw in'}, {'start': '2060.919', 'end': '2066.320', 'text': 'Another'}, {'start': '2062.839', 'end': '2067.800', 'text': 'statistically at the time most'}, {'start': '2066.320', 'end': '2071.240', 'text': 'scientists'}, {'start': '2067.800', 'end': '2074.720', 'text': 'were most of them found'}, {'start': '2071.240', 'end': '2078.399', 'text': 'way was at least in private you know'}, {'start': '2074.720', 'end': '2080.960', 'text': 'with the ideas most people see'}, {'start': '2078.399', 'end': '2083.359', 'text': 'scientists were but wrote a really'}, {'start': '2080.960', 'end': '2086.800', 'text': 'interesting article in 52 called on the'}, {'start': '2083.359', 'end': '2089.919', 'text': 'locality of whale pods. And he made what'}, {'start': '2086.800', 'end': '2092.040', 'text': 'seems like kind of an obscure argument'}, {'start': '2089.919', 'end': '2094.480', 'text': 'uh that'}, {'start': '2092.040', 'end': '2096.240', 'text': "doesn't on the face of it seem"}, {'start': '2094.480', 'end': '2098.640', 'text': 'revolutionary but was actually quite'}, {'start': '2096.240', 'end': '2102.400', 'text': 'important at the time at a time when the'}, {'start': '2098.640', 'end': '2104.240', 'text': 'Soviet Union was substanding effort was'}, {'start': '2102.400', 'end': '2107.000', 'text': 'catching more and more every year. He'}, {'start': '2104.240', 'end': '2110.400', 'text': 'made the argument that uh'}, {'start': '2107.000', 'end': '2111.480', 'text': 'look when you destroy a pot of whales'}, {'start': '2110.400', 'end': '2114.000', 'text': 'somewhere in the'}, {'start': '2111.480', 'end': '2116.160', 'text': "world most of us think it's going to be"}, {'start': '2114.000', 'end': '2119.359', 'text': 'replenished you you kill all the fin'}, {'start': '2116.160', 'end': '2122.200', 'text': 'whales uh in one part of the Antarctic'}, {'start': '2119.359', 'end': '2125.119', 'text': 'um fin whales will come in other parts'}, {'start': '2122.200', 'end': '2126.880', 'text': "of what's the big deal you know there's"}, {'start': '2125.119', 'end': '2129.760', 'text': 'more food for other whales well they'}, {'start': '2126.880', 'end': '2131.560', 'text': 'said think about it um you know what'}, {'start': '2129.760', 'end': '2135.359', 'text': 'what does linko teach'}, {'start': '2131.560', 'end': '2137.680', 'text': 'uso teaches us uh that habits, the'}, {'start': '2135.359', 'end': '2140.160', 'text': 'things you do all the behind in your'}, {'start': '2137.680', 'end': '2143.119', 'text': 'life become part of your genetic'}, {'start': '2140.160', 'end': '2144.880', 'text': 'inheritance. Right? What does this mean?'}, {'start': '2143.119', 'end': '2146.920', 'text': "This means that if you're a whale of the"}, {'start': '2144.880', 'end': '2149.520', 'text': "southern hemisphere, you're genetically"}, {'start': '2146.920', 'end': '2151.440', 'text': 'bound to the southern hemisphere. You'}, {'start': '2149.520', 'end': '2153.280', 'text': "can't just cross the equator. Your"}, {'start': '2151.440', 'end': '2156.320', 'text': 'genetics will tell you the wrong thing'}, {'start': '2153.280', 'end': '2157.760', 'text': 'to do once you get up there. What are'}, {'start': '2156.320', 'end': '2161.440', 'text': 'the implications of this? The'}, {'start': '2157.760', 'end': '2163.320', 'text': 'implications are that actually whale'}, {'start': '2161.440', 'end': '2166.240', 'text': 'pods are distinct'}, {'start': '2163.320', 'end': '2169.040', 'text': "stocks. You can't have one come"}, {'start': '2166.240', 'end': '2172.560', 'text': 'replenish a stock from somewhere else'}, {'start': '2169.040', 'end': '2175.520', 'text': 'because it has been modified genetically'}, {'start': '2172.560', 'end': '2177.680', 'text': "uh through it and it's behavior. It's"}, {'start': '2175.520', 'end': '2181.359', 'text': 'another example using these ideas which'}, {'start': '2177.680', 'end': '2183.920', 'text': 'you clearly disagree with uh to make an'}, {'start': '2181.359', 'end': '2188.880', 'text': 'argument for restraint'}, {'start': '2183.920', 'end': '2188.880', 'text': 'uh to not overcome these thoughts.'}, {'start': '2190.920', 'end': '2193.920', 'text': 'Okay.'}, {'start': '2193.960', 'end': '2201.200', 'text': 'Well, Julian knows how story people'}, {'start': '2198.839', 'end': '2203.520', 'text': 'do. One of the things I found very'}, {'start': '2201.200', 'end': '2206.640', 'text': 'interesting about thinking about Soviet'}, {'start': '2203.520', 'end': '2209.200', 'text': 'whale science, but these fights which'}, {'start': '2206.640', 'end': '2209.200', 'text': 'are obviously'}, {'start': '2210.359', 'end': '2216.160', 'text': 'overse but but they had Soviet'}, {'start': '2212.960', 'end': '2217.400', 'text': 'scientists were embedded in the state.'}, {'start': '2216.160', 'end': '2220.800', 'text': 'their'}, {'start': '2217.400', 'end': '2223.040', 'text': 'decisions ostensibly really mattered.'}, {'start': '2220.800', 'end': '2225.520', 'text': 'the conclusions that they came to had'}, {'start': '2223.040', 'end': '2227.839', 'text': 'the ability to really shape uh the'}, {'start': '2225.520', 'end': '2231.520', 'text': 'actions of the sub whaling industry and'}, {'start': '2227.839', 'end': '2234.440', 'text': "by extension you know the world's oceans"}, {'start': '2231.520', 'end': '2238.440', 'text': 'well that was put to the test'}, {'start': '2234.440', 'end': '2238.440', 'text': '1956 probably'}, {'start': '2238.560', 'end': '2245.920', 'text': "um it's what I tell my"}, {'start': '2242.040', 'end': '2248.640', 'text': 'my Soviet story politics everyone thinks'}, {'start': '2245.920', 'end': '2251.200', 'text': 'the the 20th party congress is famous'}, {'start': '2248.640', 'end': '2252.800', 'text': '20th time the Soviet The communist party'}, {'start': '2251.200', 'end': '2255.920', 'text': 'got together and decided the future of'}, {'start': '2252.800', 'end': '2258.960', 'text': "the country. It's famous for one reason"}, {'start': '2255.920', 'end': '2261.839', 'text': 'because Krushchev got up and he said'}, {'start': '2258.960', 'end': '2263.440', 'text': 'look Stalin was a bad guy. We need to'}, {'start': '2261.839', 'end': '2266.720', 'text': 'take a new course. This is his so-called'}, {'start': '2263.440', 'end': '2269.280', 'text': 'secret speech because it was so you know'}, {'start': '2266.720', 'end': '2271.440', 'text': "so explosive that they couldn't speak"}, {'start': '2269.280', 'end': '2274.000', 'text': 'openly about it. So the 20th party'}, {'start': '2271.440', 'end': '2276.480', 'text': "congress of 56 is famous. I tell that's"}, {'start': '2274.000', 'end': '2279.040', 'text': 'nonsense but fine whatever it is Stalin'}, {'start': '2276.480', 'end': '2280.960', 'text': 'the end of Stalinism that pales in'}, {'start': '2279.040', 'end': '2283.200', 'text': "comparison to Krushchev's other idea"}, {'start': '2280.960', 'end': '2285.280', 'text': 'which he presented the same day which is'}, {'start': '2283.200', 'end': '2289.040', 'text': 'that the Soviet Union should build nine'}, {'start': '2285.280', 'end': '2290.520', 'text': 'new whaling fleets and this was at a'}, {'start': '2289.040', 'end': '2292.040', 'text': 'time'}, {'start': '2290.520', 'end': '2294.040', 'text': 'uh'}, {'start': '2292.040', 'end': '2298.960', 'text': 'when it was'}, {'start': '2294.040', 'end': '2300.960', 'text': '950 by the way seven in a second um that'}, {'start': '2298.960', 'end': '2302.800', 'text': 'pales that is far more important to the'}, {'start': '2300.960', 'end': '2305.839', 'text': 'future of the world than the end'}, {'start': '2302.800', 'end': '2307.440', 'text': "Stalinism in the Soviet Union. I don't"}, {'start': '2305.839', 'end': '2309.839', 'text': "believe but I do think that's the most"}, {'start': '2307.440', 'end': '2312.240', 'text': 'important thing that happened uh to'}, {'start': '2309.839', 'end': '2316.160', 'text': 'party Congress in 1956. Okay. This was'}, {'start': '2312.240', 'end': '2320.560', 'text': 'the moment for Soviet science'}, {'start': '2316.160', 'end': '2323.599', 'text': 'uh to fulfill the dream that it found.'}, {'start': '2320.560', 'end': '2324.280', 'text': 'This is the moment where scientists who'}, {'start': '2323.599', 'end': '2326.560', 'text': 'were'}, {'start': '2324.280', 'end': '2329.359', 'text': 'asked not at the party of Congress'}, {'start': '2326.560', 'end': '2331.599', 'text': "didn't obviously decisions by then but"}, {'start': '2329.359', 'end': '2334.480', 'text': 'were asked like what are the stops of'}, {'start': '2331.599', 'end': '2337.240', 'text': "the world's red should we expand our"}, {'start': '2334.480', 'end': '2340.160', 'text': 'wings leave well people did weigh'}, {'start': '2337.240', 'end': '2343.760', 'text': 'in they said various things like uh'}, {'start': '2340.160', 'end': '2345.760', 'text': 'Kumov said this is crazy this is not'}, {'start': '2343.760', 'end': '2347.200', 'text': 'going to be profitable from an economic'}, {'start': '2345.760', 'end': '2350.720', 'text': 'point of view from any point of view'}, {'start': '2347.200', 'end': '2352.880', 'text': 'really kumov had to say uh zinc Kovich'}, {'start': '2350.720', 'end': '2355.040', 'text': 'you remember who from the ali he'}, {'start': '2352.880', 'end': '2357.359', 'text': 'survived he was still working away by'}, {'start': '2355.040', 'end': '2359.920', 'text': 'this time in Moscow he said uh this can'}, {'start': '2357.359', 'end': '2361.920', 'text': 'only lead to the total extinction under'}, {'start': '2359.920', 'end': '2364.800', 'text': 'the existing rules and regulations uh'}, {'start': '2361.920', 'end': '2367.280', 'text': "it's inevitable if we keep hunting"}, {'start': '2364.800', 'end': '2369.320', 'text': 'whales and expand our hunting for whales'}, {'start': '2367.280', 'end': '2373.520', 'text': 'they will surely go'}, {'start': '2369.320', 'end': '2375.520', 'text': 'extinct orov who said radical measures'}, {'start': '2373.520', 'end': '2377.280', 'text': 'uh to conserve the remains of these'}, {'start': '2375.520', 'end': '2380.000', 'text': 'North Pacific sperm whale sucks should'}, {'start': '2377.280', 'end': '2382.960', 'text': 'include the total banning of their catch'}, {'start': '2380.000', 'end': '2384.720', 'text': 'In other words, there was a pretty clear'}, {'start': '2382.960', 'end': '2386.880', 'text': 'unonymity'}, {'start': '2384.720', 'end': '2389.599', 'text': 'uh from most of the important whale'}, {'start': '2386.880', 'end': '2392.320', 'text': 'scientists that this was a bad idea,'}, {'start': '2389.599', 'end': '2394.400', 'text': 'this kind of dramatic expansion uh that'}, {'start': '2392.320', 'end': '2396.320', 'text': "they were then thinking about. I'll just"}, {'start': '2394.400', 'end': '2398.720', 'text': 'include one more a little earlier'}, {'start': '2396.320', 'end': '2401.440', 'text': 'because it does express this kind of'}, {'start': '2398.720', 'end': '2403.280', 'text': 'emotional connection.'}, {'start': '2401.440', 'end': '2405.040', 'text': 'graduate student by the name of Sonukov'}, {'start': '2403.280', 'end': '2406.800', 'text': 'said, "The continuation of whaling with'}, {'start': '2405.040', 'end': '2408.720', 'text': 'such intensity as now could lead in the'}, {'start': '2406.800', 'end': '2410.720', 'text': 'future to disastrous results, to the'}, {'start': '2408.720', 'end': '2413.119', 'text': 'failure of whaling altogether. Whales'}, {'start': '2410.720', 'end': '2415.920', 'text': 'bring humans such great benefits they'}, {'start': '2413.119', 'end': '2419.400', 'text': 'deserve for humans to take care of them'}, {'start': '2415.920', 'end': '2421.880', 'text': 'and protect them for destruction."'}, {'start': '2419.400', 'end': '2423.640', 'text': 'So, Soviet science'}, {'start': '2421.880', 'end': '2425.920', 'text': 'worked.'}, {'start': '2423.640', 'end': '2428.079', 'text': 'Scientists recognized that certain'}, {'start': '2425.920', 'end': '2430.480', 'text': 'limits were being reached. Um, by the'}, {'start': '2428.079', 'end': '2431.760', 'text': 'way, many of the other whalers around'}, {'start': '2430.480', 'end': '2433.760', 'text': 'the world recognized the same thing.'}, {'start': '2431.760', 'end': '2437.040', 'text': 'They were selling their whaling fleets'}, {'start': '2433.760', 'end': '2440.800', 'text': 'off by the late 1950s. Uh, and did not'}, {'start': '2437.040', 'end': '2443.520', 'text': 'visit this profitable. Okay, so it'}, {'start': '2440.800', 'end': '2447.520', 'text': "worked and it didn't work. and they"}, {'start': '2443.520', 'end': '2450.880', 'text': 'built seven fleets instead of nine. Uh'}, {'start': '2447.520', 'end': '2454.560', 'text': 'including the two largest factory um'}, {'start': '2450.880', 'end': '2457.680', 'text': 'ships ever um to hunt whales, the'}, {'start': '2454.560', 'end': '2460.000', 'text': 'Saskuke Ukraine and the Savia. Uh these'}, {'start': '2457.680', 'end': '2462.720', 'text': 'are the various whaling fleets which'}, {'start': '2460.000', 'end': '2466.119', 'text': 'were built by the Soviet Union. So what'}, {'start': '2462.720', 'end': '2466.119', 'text': 'did they do?'}, {'start': '2467.960', 'end': '2470.960', 'text': 'Well,'}, {'start': '2478.839', 'end': '2484.560', 'text': "basically as soon as that mark it's"}, {'start': '2481.119', 'end': '2488.200', 'text': 'caught the next day. No doubt was her'}, {'start': '2484.560', 'end': '2491.520', 'text': 'totally pointless killing way too many'}, {'start': '2488.200', 'end': '2494.760', 'text': 'said yes that they right so he said okay'}, {'start': '2491.520', 'end': '2496.760', 'text': "this is really but but if we're going to"}, {'start': '2494.760', 'end': '2500.160', 'text': 'stand'}, {'start': '2496.760', 'end': '2503.760', 'text': 'go get away from my amazing donor'}, {'start': '2500.160', 'end': '2504.839', 'text': 'fertility go build your uh go search for'}, {'start': '2503.760', 'end': '2509.079', 'text': 'whales'}, {'start': '2504.839', 'end': '2510.839', 'text': 'also did I would end up by the way in'}, {'start': '2509.079', 'end': '2515.119', 'text': 'California'}, {'start': '2510.839', 'end': '2519.599', 'text': 'actually green piece. Um so uh others'}, {'start': '2515.119', 'end': '2521.760', 'text': 'pointed to uh this particularly'}, {'start': '2519.599', 'end': '2525.599', 'text': 'interesting spot south of Australia, New'}, {'start': '2521.760', 'end': '2527.920', 'text': 'Zealand place of the IWC called area 5'}, {'start': '2525.599', 'end': '2531.319', 'text': 'in Russian um as a place where look'}, {'start': '2527.920', 'end': '2535.240', 'text': "hadn't been hunted that much recently."}, {'start': '2531.319', 'end': '2539.760', 'text': 'uh stormy weather, but you know'}, {'start': '2535.240', 'end': '2542.720', 'text': 'there promising um for still some whale'}, {'start': '2539.760', 'end': '2545.480', 'text': 'stocks to be found. And uh this was as'}, {'start': '2542.720', 'end': '2548.480', 'text': 'has been really beautifully'}, {'start': '2545.480', 'end': '2548.480', 'text': 'detailed'}, {'start': '2555.000', 'end': '2561.920', 'text': 'work. Anyway, 61. This again comes from'}, {'start': '2559.119', 'end': '2564.000', 'text': 'numbers uh which Ulia and others have'}, {'start': '2561.920', 'end': '2567.040', 'text': 'put together. Soviets reported killing'}, {'start': '2564.000', 'end': '2568.680', 'text': "778 humpbacks uh in that area. They'd"}, {'start': '2567.040', 'end': '2571.680', 'text': 'kill'}, {'start': '2568.680', 'end': '2574.680', 'text': '11,778. Uh the next year uh reported'}, {'start': '2571.680', 'end': '2580.040', 'text': 'killing 302 and it killed'}, {'start': '2574.680', 'end': '2581.800', 'text': '9,619. In other words, the'}, {'start': '2580.040', 'end': '2586.160', 'text': 'uh'}, {'start': '2581.800', 'end': '2586.160', 'text': 'total abandonment'}, {'start': '2587.000', 'end': '2595.760', 'text': 'of motivated shape whale science and to'}, {'start': '2591.359', 'end': '2598.240', 'text': 'some degree uh whaling policy as well.'}, {'start': '2595.760', 'end': '2600.400', 'text': '59 to 64 they killed nearly 30,000'}, {'start': '2598.240', 'end': '2602.319', 'text': 'hbacks while reporting less than 2,000.'}, {'start': '2600.400', 'end': '2605.200', 'text': "Here's uh the illegal catch. This is"}, {'start': '2602.319', 'end': '2607.760', 'text': "this is from Ulia's work here. illegal"}, {'start': '2605.200', 'end': '2610.800', 'text': 'catches in the Antarctic. You can see'}, {'start': '2607.760', 'end': '2613.839', 'text': 'the difference between uh reported and'}, {'start': '2610.800', 'end': '2616.400', 'text': 'actual catches. So um you know an'}, {'start': '2613.839', 'end': '2618.720', 'text': 'industry which'}, {'start': '2616.400', 'end': '2621.280', 'text': 'uh at least the very began on the'}, {'start': '2618.720', 'end': '2623.960', 'text': 'promise of a kind of new importance for'}, {'start': '2621.280', 'end': '2626.720', 'text': 'scientists uh and would do things'}, {'start': '2623.960', 'end': '2629.960', 'text': 'differently than had been done uh in'}, {'start': '2626.720', 'end': '2632.839', 'text': 'Waling previously ended'}, {'start': '2629.960', 'end': '2637.079', 'text': 'up in much the'}, {'start': '2632.839', 'end': '2640.000', 'text': 'same even more destructive place in the'}, {'start': '2637.079', 'end': '2642.319', 'text': "1960s. I'll just follow up uh mentioning"}, {'start': '2640.000', 'end': '2643.920', 'text': 'a couple of whale scientists who'}, {'start': '2642.319', 'end': '2645.400', 'text': 'continued'}, {'start': '2643.920', 'end': '2649.520', 'text': 'uh to'}, {'start': '2645.400', 'end': '2651.680', 'text': 'do useful important work especially in'}, {'start': '2649.520', 'end': '2652.920', 'text': 'keeping the statistics that have allowed'}, {'start': '2651.680', 'end': '2656.319', 'text': 'people to'}, {'start': '2652.920', 'end': '2657.160', 'text': 'reconstruct what was taking place this'}, {'start': '2656.319', 'end': '2660.720', 'text': 'was'}, {'start': '2657.160', 'end': '2662.560', 'text': 'deeply this is Dimitri Tomato as a young'}, {'start': '2660.720', 'end': '2665.119', 'text': "man that's actually him in Wellington"}, {'start': '2662.560', 'end': '2666.800', 'text': 'New Zealand uh this is Jeremy Kayov as'}, {'start': '2665.119', 'end': '2668.800', 'text': 'an older man I know maybe one of you two'}, {'start': '2666.800', 'end': '2671.920', 'text': "took that photograph I'm not sure. And"}, {'start': '2668.800', 'end': '2674.720', 'text': 'in a cafe in Odessa probably'}, {'start': '2671.920', 'end': '2677.119', 'text': 'uh both of these men um special to'}, {'start': '2674.720', 'end': '2677.119', 'text': 'myself'}, {'start': '2680.760', 'end': '2687.760', 'text': 'kept pregnancy in his in his apartment'}, {'start': '2684.400', 'end': '2690.560', 'text': 'for many many years uh later to be'}, {'start': '2687.760', 'end': '2693.040', 'text': 'revealed to uh the rest of the world.'}, {'start': '2690.560', 'end': '2694.800', 'text': 'And then um Alexa Yablov, the tall'}, {'start': '2693.040', 'end': '2697.680', 'text': 'bearded man here in the middle as a'}, {'start': '2694.800', 'end': '2699.359', 'text': 'young student with his mentor um SD'}, {'start': '2697.680', 'end': '2703.520', 'text': 'Kleinberg over there on the right who'}, {'start': '2699.359', 'end': '2708.040', 'text': 'study dolphins as well. Uh and Yablov uh'}, {'start': '2703.520', 'end': '2711.040', 'text': 'was kind of the the centerpiece of'}, {'start': '2708.040', 'end': '2711.040', 'text': 'organizing'}, {'start': '2711.720', 'end': '2716.160', 'text': 'subtly'}, {'start': '2713.960', 'end': '2719.680', 'text': 'about sciences. I think one of these'}, {'start': '2716.160', 'end': '2721.920', 'text': 'bastions that really resisted uh some of'}, {'start': '2719.680', 'end': '2725.119', 'text': 'the worst instincts of the fisheries'}, {'start': '2721.920', 'end': '2727.359', 'text': "institutes. Uh here's here's Yablov as"}, {'start': '2725.119', 'end': '2729.520', 'text': 'he later became the the founding member'}, {'start': '2727.359', 'end': '2731.359', 'text': "of Russia's Green Peace Party and a"}, {'start': '2729.520', 'end': '2733.319', 'text': 'member of government not under Gorbachev'}, {'start': '2731.359', 'end': '2735.760', 'text': 'but under Yelin'}, {'start': '2733.319', 'end': '2739.400', 'text': "afterwards. Uh and then I'll just uh"}, {'start': '2735.760', 'end': '2742.240', 'text': 'finish with Tamilan uh who in'}, {'start': '2739.400', 'end': '2745.599', 'text': '1974 wrote uh his book in the world of'}, {'start': '2742.240', 'end': '2748.880', 'text': 'whales and dolphins. Um and presumably a'}, {'start': '2745.599', 'end': '2748.880', 'text': 'very different'}, {'start': '2748.920', 'end': '2753.760', 'text': 'outlook was talking about how we can'}, {'start': '2751.359', 'end': '2756.520', 'text': 'call dolphins to ourselves in order to'}, {'start': '2753.760', 'end': '2758.960', 'text': 'kill them more easily than'}, {'start': '2756.520', 'end': '2762.800', 'text': 'understanding calls to each other. His'}, {'start': '2758.960', 'end': '2764.960', 'text': 'book 74 um was a very different kind of'}, {'start': '2762.800', 'end': '2768.960', 'text': 'book. He calls dolphins human best'}, {'start': '2764.960', 'end': '2771.920', 'text': 'friend. Uh he called for a 50year uh'}, {'start': '2768.960', 'end': '2774.520', 'text': 'morage climbing on whale catches in this'}, {'start': '2771.920', 'end': '2778.599', 'text': 'book. I think the Pacific'}, {'start': '2774.520', 'end': '2781.599', 'text': 'Ocean very very different perspective by'}, {'start': '2778.599', 'end': '2783.599', 'text': '193 seeing what was going on and'}, {'start': '2781.599', 'end': '2786.160', 'text': 'understood that this was become'}, {'start': '2783.599', 'end': '2788.480', 'text': 'incredibly destructive and it was books'}, {'start': '2786.160', 'end': '2791.280', 'text': 'like this which was really probably the'}, {'start': '2788.480', 'end': '2794.760', 'text': 'most my understanding the most uh'}, {'start': '2791.280', 'end': '2798.480', 'text': 'popular book on whale in the Soviet'}, {'start': '2794.760', 'end': '2802.079', 'text': 'Union Bible um which really impacted'}, {'start': '2798.480', 'end': '2804.319', 'text': 'public perception as well not larely'}, {'start': '2802.079', 'end': '2807.079', 'text': 'aware of what was going on. And by the'}, {'start': '2804.319', 'end': '2810.560', 'text': 'time uh the the onto stock was'}, {'start': '2807.079', 'end': '2813.280', 'text': 'confronted uh by Greenpeace just few'}, {'start': '2810.560', 'end': '2813.280', 'text': 'months after'}, {'start': '2818.119', 'end': '2824.720', 'text': 'this'}, {'start': '2820.920', 'end': '2824.720', 'text': 'much cited in this'}, {'start': '2825.079', 'end': '2830.640', 'text': 'case John Lily the crazy dolphin'}, {'start': '2828.560', 'end': '2833.359', 'text': 'researcher here in the United States who'}, {'start': '2830.640', 'end': '2836.640', 'text': 'really sh reshaped ideas about dolphins'}, {'start': '2833.359', 'end': '2840.800', 'text': 'as well. Um, this was beginning to be'}, {'start': '2836.640', 'end': '2842.720', 'text': 'really pre the veiling notion of Wales'}, {'start': '2840.800', 'end': '2844.800', 'text': 'in the Soviet Union including with'}, {'start': '2842.720', 'end': '2850.160', 'text': 'people like Alfred Berine who was on'}, {'start': '2844.800', 'end': '2850.160', 'text': 'board there uh who was sort of warning'}, {'start': '2851.319', 'end': '2854.960', 'text': 'people needed to'}, {'start': '2856.200', 'end': '2864.079', 'text': 'stop in one sense in an important sense'}, {'start': '2860.560', 'end': '2867.760', 'text': 'completely failed. stop what they saw'}, {'start': '2864.079', 'end': '2870.480', 'text': 'coming um which was far worse than they'}, {'start': '2867.760', 'end': '2874.240', 'text': 'would have imagined. Uh in another sense'}, {'start': '2870.480', 'end': '2877.560', 'text': 'they kept working u many of them uh in'}, {'start': '2874.240', 'end': '2881.839', 'text': 'their own ways behind the scenes subtly'}, {'start': '2877.560', 'end': '2884.160', 'text': 'changing ideas in Russia about whales in'}, {'start': '2881.839', 'end': '2887.839', 'text': 'ways that would ultimately I argue in'}, {'start': '2884.160', 'end': '2890.800', 'text': 'the book um be important uh for Russians'}, {'start': '2887.839', 'end': '2894.440', 'text': 'agreeing to g their whailing industry'}, {'start': '2890.800', 'end': '2898.920', 'text': 'when mortoriium came into effect in'}, {'start': '2894.440', 'end': '2898.920', 'text': "1987. I'll finish there."}, {'start': '2908.319', 'end': '2912.240', 'text': "And I'll be happy to take questions."}, {'start': '2910.160', 'end': '2914.800', 'text': 'Yeah, please go ahead and ask a'}, {'start': '2912.240', 'end': '2917.359', 'text': 'question. Oh, go ahead.'}, {'start': '2914.800', 'end': '2917.359', 'text': 'When did the'}, {'start': '2918.680', 'end': '2923.440', 'text': 'International was found 1946?'}, {'start': '2921.839', 'end': '2926.200', 'text': '1946.'}, {'start': '2923.440', 'end': '2929.800', 'text': 'Yeah. So, there were there'}, {'start': '2926.200', 'end': '2932.520', 'text': 'were World War'}, {'start': '2929.800', 'end': '2936.559', 'text': 'II but'}, {'start': '2932.520', 'end': '2939.839', 'text': '1946 countries Washington'}, {'start': '2936.559', 'end': '2939.839', 'text': 'uh and came up with'}, {'start': '2941.480', 'end': '2949.760', 'text': 'the regular export at least way forward'}, {'start': '2946.640', 'end': '2952.240', 'text': 'Doug Chapman who was our team right was'}, {'start': '2949.760', 'end': '2953.760', 'text': 'on the commission and I can remember the'}, {'start': '2952.240', 'end': '2955.440', 'text': 'discussions about this is what we'}, {'start': '2953.760', 'end': '2959.040', 'text': "supportive but this doesn't really"}, {'start': '2955.440', 'end': '2963.280', 'text': "happen that's Union death, one of the"}, {'start': '2959.040', 'end': '2966.000', 'text': 'three wise men at the IWC. Yeah. Doing'}, {'start': '2963.280', 'end': '2968.319', 'text': 'this from whatever this crazy computer'}, {'start': '2966.000', 'end': '2970.720', 'text': 'modeling here in the basement of the'}, {'start': '2968.319', 'end': '2970.720', 'text': 'building'}, {'start': '2977.319', 'end': '2983.680', 'text': 'probably was'}, {'start': '2981.319', 'end': '2985.599', 'text': "and I'll think the other one in a"}, {'start': '2983.680', 'end': '2988.920', 'text': "moment, but anyway. Didn't Bethon marry"}, {'start': '2985.599', 'end': '2988.920', 'text': 'a Russian woman?'}, {'start': '2991.240', 'end': '2996.760', 'text': "Arch interesting story. I won't go into"}, {'start': '2993.599', 'end': '2996.760', 'text': 'the details.'}, {'start': '3000.599', 'end': '3005.760', 'text': "Bill, I'm not going to ask about 40"}, {'start': '3002.960', 'end': '3009.440', 'text': 'minutes.'}, {'start': '3005.760', 'end': '3011.000', 'text': "It's worth noting left on a sort of"}, {'start': '3009.440', 'end': '3014.240', 'text': 'positive note here'}, {'start': '3011.000', 'end': '3015.680', 'text': "about it's kind of gone the other way"}, {'start': '3014.240', 'end': '3018.640', 'text': "now. They're not in the business of"}, {'start': '3015.680', 'end': '3020.800', 'text': 'waiting but there was a lot of'}, {'start': '3018.640', 'end': '3024.400', 'text': 'resistance. So there was this window of'}, {'start': '3020.800', 'end': '3026.160', 'text': 'time when Yelson was there when Yob came'}, {'start': '3024.400', 'end': '3030.400', 'text': 'out and not only admitted what the'}, {'start': '3026.160', 'end': '3031.319', 'text': 'Soviet Union had been doing but also was'}, {'start': '3030.400', 'end': '3034.640', 'text': 'willing'}, {'start': '3031.319', 'end': '3036.160', 'text': 'to officially correct the tax record.'}, {'start': '3034.640', 'end': '3037.680', 'text': 'You know I make that an official'}, {'start': '3036.160', 'end': '3039.359', 'text': 'statement of the Russian government and'}, {'start': '3037.680', 'end': '3044.480', 'text': 'there is a statement to that effect as'}, {'start': '3039.359', 'end': '3046.520', 'text': 'you know from that time in 1993 94. But'}, {'start': '3044.480', 'end': '3048.640', 'text': 'you know with the moving on of the'}, {'start': '3046.520', 'end': '3050.240', 'text': "regime there's been a very different"}, {'start': '3048.640', 'end': '3051.440', 'text': 'attitude towards it to the point where'}, {'start': '3050.240', 'end': '3052.800', 'text': 'they started calling in the'}, {'start': '3051.440', 'end': '3056.319', 'text': 'international mailing commission they'}, {'start': '3052.800', 'end': '3061.200', 'text': 'started calling what Julia and and I and'}, {'start': '3056.319', 'end': '3063.599', 'text': 'others were doing the alternative catch'}, {'start': '3061.200', 'end': '3068.920', 'text': "alternative facts and I'll just say I I"}, {'start': '3063.599', 'end': '3068.920', 'text': "suspect that her photo isn't do some"}, {'start': '3069.599', 'end': '3072.880', 'text': "yeah I don't I don't have anything to"}, {'start': '3070.880', 'end': '3075.520', 'text': "add to that. Yeah, it's um that that was"}, {'start': '3072.880', 'end': '3077.280', 'text': "a moment in time and I think it's"}, {'start': '3075.520', 'end': '3079.440', 'text': 'historians are just now reckoning with'}, {'start': '3077.280', 'end': '3081.359', 'text': 'this moment in the 1990s which for me'}, {'start': '3079.440', 'end': '3083.559', 'text': 'was so formidant in my relationship with'}, {'start': '3081.359', 'end': '3085.599', 'text': 'Russia when I first started living there'}, {'start': '3083.559', 'end': '3090.319', 'text': 'when first started getting to know'}, {'start': '3085.599', 'end': '3092.280', 'text': "people from Russia and um it's over"}, {'start': '3090.319', 'end': '3095.040', 'text': 'absolutely'}, {'start': '3092.280', 'end': '3097.839', 'text': 'yeah I think the thing I find'}, {'start': '3095.040', 'end': '3100.480', 'text': "interesting was with what's happening in"}, {'start': '3097.839', 'end': '3103.960', 'text': 'Russia and Ukraine now was that the part'}, {'start': '3100.480', 'end': '3107.200', 'text': 'of the Russian people was in Crimea.'}, {'start': '3103.960', 'end': '3111.520', 'text': 'And is Ukrainian'}, {'start': '3107.200', 'end': '3114.559', 'text': "so don't don't tell him that. No."}, {'start': '3111.520', 'end': '3117.800', 'text': "He very Oh, really? I didn't know that."}, {'start': '3114.559', 'end': '3121.079', 'text': 'He wants him to invade. Oh, wow.'}, {'start': '3117.800', 'end': '3124.319', 'text': 'Well, we live in London.'}, {'start': '3121.079', 'end': '3125.680', 'text': 'Yeah. M. Yeah. None of these figure I'}, {'start': '3124.319', 'end': '3127.599', 'text': 'mean this this goes to the point that I'}, {'start': '3125.680', 'end': '3130.760', 'text': 'mean none of none of these figures fit'}, {'start': '3127.599', 'end': '3134.359', 'text': 'probably nicely into our um our own'}, {'start': '3130.760', 'end': '3138.000', 'text': 'politics. Miko for example was a'}, {'start': '3134.359', 'end': '3139.520', 'text': 'very I you you guys know very well I I'}, {'start': '3138.000', 'end': '3141.599', 'text': 'interviewed him on multiple occasions.'}, {'start': '3139.520', 'end': '3143.920', 'text': "He's a you know we would think of as a"}, {'start': '3141.599', 'end': '3146.800', 'text': 'Russian chauvinist for sure you know a'}, {'start': '3143.920', 'end': '3149.359', 'text': 'Russian great Russian patriot um and man'}, {'start': '3146.800', 'end': '3151.119', 'text': 'living in being bombed by you know'}, {'start': '3149.359', 'end': '3152.400', 'text': 'living in Odessa and being bombed. had'}, {'start': '3151.119', 'end': '3154.480', 'text': 'corresponded with him a bit during the'}, {'start': '3152.400', 'end': '3156.800', 'text': "war. Uh, and that's what he responded to"}, {'start': '3154.480', 'end': '3158.240', 'text': 'me with. He said, "Well, hopefully the'}, {'start': '3156.800', 'end': '3161.760', 'text': "Russians will win soon and I'll be"}, {'start': '3158.240', 'end': '3164.960', 'text': 'free." Wow. also a very brave man in the'}, {'start': '3161.760', 'end': '3167.599', 'text': 'Soviet Union uh being taken and'}, {'start': '3164.960', 'end': '3171.599', 'text': 'interrogated by the KGB for his'}, {'start': '3167.599', 'end': '3176.160', 'text': 'continued uh outcries against uh the'}, {'start': '3171.599', 'end': '3177.760', 'text': 'falsification of data uh and the um and'}, {'start': '3176.160', 'end': '3179.760', 'text': "in part because it's you couldn't"}, {'start': '3177.760', 'end': '3181.800', 'text': 'publish what he wanted to publish but'}, {'start': '3179.760', 'end': '3185.800', 'text': 'but also'}, {'start': '3181.800', 'end': '3185.800', 'text': 'because wrong'}, {'start': '3187.599', 'end': '3193.240', 'text': 'yeah in the back'}, {'start': '3189.680', 'end': '3195.920', 'text': "I'm curious where was the market for"}, {'start': '3193.240', 'end': '3198.480', 'text': 'oil within the Soviet Union or being'}, {'start': '3195.920', 'end': '3201.280', 'text': 'sold abroad? Uh yeah, mostly in the'}, {'start': '3198.480', 'end': '3202.920', 'text': 'Soviet Union but although later so you'}, {'start': '3201.280', 'end': '3207.200', 'text': 'know'}, {'start': '3202.920', 'end': '3209.680', 'text': 'the this this I found slightly more'}, {'start': '3207.200', 'end': '3212.880', 'text': 'difficult to trace in the book. So the'}, {'start': '3209.680', 'end': '3215.040', 'text': 'first idea was this is going to feed'}, {'start': '3212.880', 'end': '3217.359', 'text': 'Russians especially starving Russians in'}, {'start': '3215.040', 'end': '3219.040', 'text': 'the Russians. Okay. And then I read'}, {'start': '3217.359', 'end': '3221.359', 'text': 'account after account that people hate'}, {'start': '3219.040', 'end': '3223.079', 'text': "it. They didn't like I may be sorry but"}, {'start': '3221.359', 'end': '3227.200', 'text': "I'm not hating whale"}, {'start': '3223.079', 'end': '3230.240', 'text': "immediately. I kid because I I've heard"}, {'start': '3227.200', 'end': '3232.720', 'text': "it's not that bad. Um and certainly many"}, {'start': '3230.240', 'end': '3235.200', 'text': 'people around the world enjoy whale meat'}, {'start': '3232.720', 'end': '3237.200', 'text': 'but this this is a constant theme uh in'}, {'start': '3235.200', 'end': '3239.680', 'text': 'the 20th century. British campaign'}, {'start': '3237.200', 'end': '3243.119', 'text': 'difficult to start eating mailing as'}, {'start': '3239.680', 'end': '3245.760', 'text': 'well failed after the second and it'}, {'start': '3243.119', 'end': '3248.200', 'text': 'seems to have failed in part for quality'}, {'start': '3245.760', 'end': '3251.760', 'text': 'issues a lot of'}, {'start': '3248.200', 'end': '3254.319', 'text': 'oil was so they ended up using it in'}, {'start': '3251.760', 'end': '3258.559', 'text': 'Russian parties not not primarily'}, {'start': '3254.319', 'end': '3260.240', 'text': 'although they use what it what most'}, {'start': '3258.559', 'end': '3264.480', 'text': 'whale oil was used for in the 20th'}, {'start': '3260.240', 'end': '3266.240', 'text': 'century was was to transformed into'}, {'start': '3264.480', 'end': '3268.720', 'text': 'edible fats'}, {'start': '3266.240', 'end': '3271.200', 'text': 'and turned into margarine. So it was'}, {'start': '3268.720', 'end': '3273.680', 'text': 'that it was a a butter substitute and'}, {'start': '3271.200', 'end': '3276.160', 'text': 'this was particularly important around'}, {'start': '3273.680', 'end': '3279.839', 'text': 'the world after the second world war.'}, {'start': '3276.160', 'end': '3283.280', 'text': 'There was a real and perceived shortage'}, {'start': '3279.839', 'end': '3285.599', 'text': 'of especially edible fats uh and that'}, {'start': '3283.280', 'end': '3289.119', 'text': 'had been already important in Western'}, {'start': '3285.599', 'end': '3290.680', 'text': 'Europe in the 20s and 30s and became'}, {'start': '3289.119', 'end': '3294.079', 'text': 'very important in'}, {'start': '3290.680', 'end': '3296.079', 'text': "1750s and60s. I wasn't able to find the"}, {'start': '3294.079', 'end': '3298.240', 'text': 'kind of information which I wanted to'}, {'start': '3296.079', 'end': '3301.119', 'text': 'which is to leave exactly where all the'}, {'start': '3298.240', 'end': '3302.960', 'text': 'oil products went. Some some medications'}, {'start': '3301.119', 'end': '3305.119', 'text': 'especially uh from from some of the'}, {'start': '3302.960', 'end': '3309.079', 'text': 'internal organs but the most was'}, {'start': '3305.119', 'end': '3309.079', 'text': 'consuming from the mother.'}, {'start': '3310.200', 'end': '3316.319', 'text': 'Yeah. What were other countries doing in'}, {'start': '3313.359', 'end': '3319.280', 'text': 'the meantime? So when they saw this huge'}, {'start': '3316.319', 'end': '3322.640', 'text': 'increase in uh waiting well I suppose it'}, {'start': '3319.280', 'end': '3325.440', 'text': "wasn't reported so yeah you know but was"}, {'start': '3322.640', 'end': '3328.160', 'text': 'that matched by other whailing countries'}, {'start': '3325.440', 'end': '3330.559', 'text': 'ramping up backward etc or what was'}, {'start': '3328.160', 'end': '3332.079', 'text': 'going on in other other places? Yeah, if'}, {'start': '3330.559', 'end': '3334.720', 'text': "we're talking specifically about the"}, {'start': '3332.079', 'end': '3337.440', 'text': '60s, what we see is a major decline in'}, {'start': '3334.720', 'end': '3338.960', 'text': 'whaling in Norway and the UK and'}, {'start': '3337.440', 'end': '3341.520', 'text': "particularly it's been two of the most"}, {'start': '3338.960', 'end': '3343.280', 'text': 'important way countries in the world. Uh'}, {'start': '3341.520', 'end': '3346.000', 'text': 'and they were in fact getting rid of the'}, {'start': '3343.280', 'end': '3350.880', 'text': 'whale. Japan is a different question.'}, {'start': '3346.000', 'end': '3353.359', 'text': 'Japan was I statistics and maybe these'}, {'start': '3350.880', 'end': '3355.359', 'text': 'fill that in. Japan was not creasing.'}, {'start': '3353.359', 'end': '3358.079', 'text': 'they were buying some of these factories'}, {'start': '3355.359', 'end': '3361.920', 'text': 'from other countries then the market'}, {'start': '3358.079', 'end': '3364.400', 'text': 'people ate whale meat in Japan which'}, {'start': '3361.920', 'end': '3367.440', 'text': "quite right to say that this wasn't"}, {'start': '3364.400', 'end': '3371.839', 'text': 'entirely so the extent of the Soviet'}, {'start': '3367.440', 'end': '3375.000', 'text': 'expansion after 56 was not minimal'}, {'start': '3371.839', 'end': '3378.640', 'text': 'certainly people knew that there was'}, {'start': '3375.000', 'end': '3381.280', 'text': 'there factor please reporting certain'}, {'start': '3378.640', 'end': '3383.760', 'text': 'numbers that were larger than the Soviet'}, {'start': '3381.280', 'end': '3386.960', 'text': 'Union had been catching in the past but'}, {'start': '3383.760', 'end': '3388.480', 'text': 'still officially within ever shrinking'}, {'start': '3386.960', 'end': '3391.760', 'text': 'IWC'}, {'start': '3388.480', 'end': '3395.760', 'text': "uh quotas um it's a very complex"}, {'start': '3391.760', 'end': '3397.920', 'text': "situation so it's a 20% national quota"}, {'start': '3395.760', 'end': '3397.920', 'text': 'uh'}, {'start': '3398.200', 'end': '3405.319', 'text': "it's what's what's clear is that um many"}, {'start': '3402.160', 'end': '3408.119', 'text': 'people resented the growth so anyway'}, {'start': '3405.319', 'end': '3410.640', 'text': 'wonder done some'}, {'start': '3408.119', 'end': '3412.880', 'text': 'suspected some people knew that there'}, {'start': '3410.640', 'end': '3415.200', 'text': 'was some cheating going on though'}, {'start': '3412.880', 'end': '3418.960', 'text': "everything I've encountered no one had"}, {'start': '3415.200', 'end': '3421.040', 'text': 'any idea extent of the cheating that was'}, {'start': '3418.960', 'end': '3422.720', 'text': 'taking place but it was it was a kind of'}, {'start': '3421.040', 'end': '3424.720', 'text': 'open secret that there was some cheating'}, {'start': '3422.720', 'end': '3426.400', 'text': 'but on the other hand cheating was not'}, {'start': '3424.720', 'end': '3432.599', 'text': 'entirely new and other countries had'}, {'start': '3426.400', 'end': '3434.799', 'text': "cheated as well certainly uh there's"}, {'start': '3432.599', 'end': '3437.280', 'text': 'evidence that the Japanese were cheating'}, {'start': '3434.799', 'end': '3440.640', 'text': "in ways that uh people didn't really"}, {'start': '3437.280', 'end': '3444.799', 'text': 'understand though not nearly at the same'}, {'start': '3440.640', 'end': '3448.240', 'text': 'to the same extent And so uh yeah people'}, {'start': '3444.799', 'end': '3451.200', 'text': "people I think it's safe to say um we're"}, {'start': '3448.240', 'end': '3454.640', 'text': 'not happy Soviet Union was becoming'}, {'start': '3451.200', 'end': '3457.920', 'text': 'major whailing power at the time. Uh but'}, {'start': '3454.640', 'end': '3461.559', 'text': "but most countries wasn't paying anymore"}, {'start': '3457.920', 'end': '3461.559', 'text': "wasn't paying business."}, {'start': '3468.319', 'end': '3470.720', 'text': 'One more'}, {'start': '3473.160', 'end': '3478.599', 'text': "question. We'll give a big hand to Ryan."}]