01/05/2025 - Licensing Sub-Committee D
hackneycouncil
[{'start': '4.103', 'end': '9.109', 'text': ">> Natalie Kokayi: Thank you.  Good afternoon and welcome to  you. All my name is Natalie  Kokayi and I'm the governor's  officer supporting this meeting.  Please note, that this meeting  will be striped. We'll be live  streamed before we progress. I'm  just going to run through the  protocol for remote hearings.   Only speak when invited to buy  the chair. If you wish to  speak, please raise your hand  and direct all communications.  Via the chair. Please ensure  that your microphones are muted  when you're not speaking. When  speaking please be succinct and  do not exceed the allocated  timeframes? If referring to any  written submissions, please  refer to the specific page.   number in the agenda pack. Any  new evidence can only be  submitted at the discretion of  the chair and the agreement of  all parties. If you are having  technical difficulties, please  use the check function to alert  the meeting or dial in using the  details in the invitation.   Please do not use the chat  function for putting formal  questions to the subcommittee.  Any persistent, disruptive  behavior will result in your  removal from the meeting.  The application has been  considered any remaining parties  will be asked to log out of the  hearing. Please do so promptly  so that counselors will have the  opportunity to deliberate and  make a decision. Each part will  be notified of the decision  within five working days.  I will now hand over to members  and invite them to elect a  chair. Thank you.   >> Sem Moema (Cllr): And  nominate.   >> Lynne Troughton (Cllr): And  nominated.   >> Sem Moema (Cllr): okay, I  second   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): Thank  you very much. Everyone and  welcome today to this  Subcommittee D meeting   Thursday, the first of Maya to  clock. Just for the record and  before we start we'll just go  around. Give  introductions I'm Council Smith,  chair of licensing and also a  customer, start Newington Ward  Council of Trausen.   >> Lynne Troughton (Cllr):  Constantly Lynne Troughton.   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): Thank  you very much customer Wema.   >> Sem Moema (Cllr): Councilor  Semo. Emma Hackney downsw.   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr):  Fantastic. We'll just run  through the officers. You've  heard from Natalie thanking  Natalie's Natalie is our  governance officer.   >> Subangini Sriramana: Good  afternoon, everybody. I'm  Subhash Sriramana, principal  licensing officer and I will be  presenting the report. Thank  you.   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): Thank  you very much. Super and Amanda  not Amanda Griggs, the other  Amanda.   >> Amanda Nauth: Good afternoon.  And my name is Amanda North from  Legal Services and I'm   supporting members. I talked to  apologize for my dark screen.  Unfortunately, I can't amend  it. Thank you, thank   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): Thank  you very much and PC Griggs.   >> Amanda Griggs: Good afternoon  counselors. Yeah. PC Amanda  Griggs, here from police,  license and units.   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): Thank  you very much Anwar as our IT  experts. So and why thank you  for all you do and being on the  sidelines and then we've got  David and Aidan if you may as   well, just introduce yourselves.  Now we've only got one agenda  item on here. David.  >> David Borrie: Hi bro. David  Borrie co-founder and CEO of  Pirate Studios.   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr):  Fantastic. And Aidan.   >> Aidan Crowe: I am Aidan, had  a security use.   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): Great.  Fantastic. Okay, so if  everyone's happy we can just  move on with the agenda. Yep,  not seeing any complaints there.  So, let's move on. So, agenda  item one, we've elected the  chair.  Agenda item, two apologies for  absence. There are no apologies  today. Declarations are  interested agenda Item three DO  members have any interest to  declare I don't.   >> Lynne Troughton (Cllr): No  chair.   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): Thank  you very much, agenda item. Four  minutes of the previous meeting  the subcommittees. Consider an  agree. The minutes of the  previous meeting held in the  4th of February, 25, and the  third of April 25. I've read  those minutes. I'm happy with  them. Can we approve those  minutes, please? Thank you very  much.  >> Lynne Troughton (Cllr): These  agreed.   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): Great  Agenda, Item Five, The hearing  procedures were just run through  how it works. So step one is  the appointment introduction of  chair which we've done step two.  The licensing. Office will  outrun the report over five  minutes Step 3 the applicant  will then present their case and  support of their application.  Again that will be five minutes  and then we will have  responsible for authorities in  this case, it would be the  police, they will help five  minutes, step six, sorry step 5  will the other persons in this  case. Today although we have had  five submissions, which we've  all read, just Nord members. If  you've read all the   submissions, please just so we  make sure that that's happened.  Great, thank you, very much.   That don't appear to be anybody  other persons on here today. At  the moment, they may come in  later. We'll just have to wait  and see for that one and then  step six. We move into a  discussion phase over 15 minutes  Step 8, final point of   clarification. And then that'll  be the end with one and consider  whether we grant this or not.  So, as everyone clear on how  this works. Brilliant, okay. So  we'll move on to step two then  and invite the principal   licensee office. Please to  outline the report. Thank you.  Super   >> Subangini Sriramana: Thank  you, chair. So the item you're  going to consider is for an  application received under  Section 17 of the Licensing Act  2003 for a premises license for  the Premises Pirate Studios.  Miss any, floor and ground  floor, 42, to 56, Tottenham  Road. The application seeking  permission for live music. From  10 to 21:30 Monday to Sunday.   Recorded music from 10 to 2200,  Monday to Sunday, and to  authorize the support of  alcohol for conception on the  premises.  From 10 to 2300, Monday to  Thursday from 10 to midnight on  Friday and Saturday. and from  10 to 20 to 30 on Sunday, as  stated within the report.   Representation remains from the  police and other persons. And I  have nothing else to add. Thank  you.   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): Okay,  thank you very much. I think  you're happy to move on members.  Yeah, the state. Yeah, but okay.  Now it's over to the applicant  please. I don't know which one  is a Aidan. Are you gonna be  the one speaking on this one or   >> Aidan Crowe: Yes, I will.  Thanks.   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): Okay  great. So off you go ahead and  you've got five minutes, maybe  quite strict with the time.   >> Aidan Crowe: So, thank you  for the opportunity to speak  today. Firstly, this license   application is about creating a  safer and more controlled  environment at Pirate Cgs  Dawson, I joined Pirate in  October, 23, and advise the  company to withdraw, the  previous application. We had in  until we had addressed the  concerns raised as part of  that. And I've since led on that  work. Brief water on my  background. I spent eight years  the Metropolitan Police   leaving. As a detective sergeant  return Covid is a special  council for two  years from 2019 to 2023. I was  group head of security for so  house. A global hospitality  group, operating license,  venues, but hotels, members  clubs and gyms across the UK  licensing, was central to my  role there, which is why I'm   now confident in saying Pirate  Dawson is ready to be licensed.  Since October 2023, we've  overall our security model. We  change guarding providers,  increase, pay rates to recruit  good quality, security staff.  Double the number of guards on  due to the weekends extended  guarding hours across the   board.  guards. Now where high  visibility and are by default  base near our front entrance by  the street. I'm now spending  over 5,000 pounds a month on  guarding which is 100% increase  on costs, which frankly is  unsustainable without new   revenue streams for us. We've  also increased the number of  lives used to be operators from  five to eight during evenings  and nights in our 24/7  controller introduced strict to  site controls and permanently  banned a fair few individuals  for antisocial behavior from the  site. The person engaged with  residents, I hosted an on-site  meeting. I've attended the  Kingsgate Estate Residence,  Association to listen to  concerns at several meetings  with the local safety team,  Playsting. We've already acted  on feedback for example, who's  signing our clean entity daily.  Let us sweeps outside and we we  are exploring options for larger  bins. We've trialed alcohol  sales at Dawson under two  temporary event. Notices over   the winter? These weren't very  smoothly with no instance,  customer feedback was very  positive, particularly regarding  enhanced staffing and the feel  of safety on site. We've had a  fully licensed bar operating in  the same model at our Birmingham  site for the last 18 months.  Again with improved safety and  customer controls as a result,  importantly, this will not be a  public bar, we will only serve  alcohol to pre-booked customers  and only lower strength drinks  beers ciders, and low   Percentage premix, cocktails,  like gts hard liquor will be  banned and we will implement  bag checks to prevent anyone.  Smuggling anything in the fact  is many customers already,  bring their own alcohols to  enjoy in their sessions at the  moment and are currently free to  do. So, giving us this license  will allow us to establish  control and limits on drinking.  I have essay license goes on  duty, every night until close,  which is far more presents than  any nearby license venues from  what I can see guards a briefed  to minimize, nuisance, and  disperse loiterers and local  police have been quite   complementary about their  professionalism and consistency  with the the new company that  I've brought in. Looking  through the police objections,  they've only been three recorded  on Social Behavior, instance,  over the last 18 months, despite  quite close police attention  relatively, minor instance. But  handled swiftly with permanent  bands from us and full  engagement at the police. Some  residents of rays litter   concerns, while we are located  on busy thoroughfare. And not  all the liter is ours. We've  responded anyway, and have a  saying, regular cleaning duties  and the bins. I've discuss on  the protection of children, we  already bar or band any from  site after 9pm and will not sell  our car to any booking involved  in minors. Customers must  upload valid photo ID to make a  reservation and all staff are   trained in China. 25 Procedures.  This system has worked well for  us in Birmingham, and I'll  personally, oversee top up  training to ensure compliance   here. We're open to discussion  on the proposed hours while  we've requested. The ability to  make sales from 10am. It is  likely that accept on Saturdays  most activity will begin from  4pm onwards and we are happy to  consider amendments. The  licensing team for clarity on  what would happen between 2300  hours and we proposed to stop  serving and 0200 hours when we  close the site. We could either  ban outside alcohol completely  or allow customers to bring in a  maximum two years each, which is  what we do in our Camden say, at  the moment and works. Well, in  my experience, it works better  terms of safety to do. That's it  diffuses tensions, on the door  rather than a blanket band, but  whichever you would want us to  enforce. We can we can do. And  whichever you think best   Ultimately we are a music space  used by working musicians and  creatives many of whom want to  enjoy a drink while they  practice without a license that  drinking happens. Anyway, just  without the controls. With the  license, we can limit. what's  consumed, oversee who? It's  served to and maintain  accountability. We want to be  responsible, operator and a good  neighbor. This license would  help us improve safety, reduce  disorder, and better manage the  current reality, the alcohol is  already a part of the space. A  license only reduces the risk  from our perspective. Thank  you.  >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): Thank  you very much Aidan. That was  very thorough comprehensive and  you came in dead on time which  is good. Members. Do you have  any points of clarification at  this? Juncture or should we  continue on to the place?   Customer Wema.   >> Sem Moema (Cllr): Yep, thank  you. I just wanted to ask you  Aidan so. You said, you would  be willing to come to Go ahead  with them. A 4 pm start on  alcohol sales.  So, if that's if that's feasible  then what's what's the rational  for asking and the application  for 10 am start?   >> Aidan Crowe: 10. Ambulance  flexibility. And if if, you  know, sales went particularly  well and we thought that we  were, we would we could do  earlier than we could. And but I  think 4pm is the kind of The  time that. That sales will  probably be best from frankly,  and I noticed in a few of the   objections, the the things  around school hours nearby. So  if that was a, if that was a  problem it's something we're  willing to to take into  consideration.   >> Sem Moema (Cllr): Okay, and  just really quickly. To  mentioned that they've been only  three incidents of ASB this  year. And look.   >> Aidan Crowe: but since me  three,   >> Sem Moema (Cllr): Sorry.   >> Aidan Crowe: Since October 23  is actually 18 months.   >> Sem Moema (Cllr): Oh, okay.  Is that reported to you or to  the police or   >> Aidan Crowe: That's been  raised by the police in the  objections. Yeah.  >> Sem Moema (Cllr): Only three.  Okay.  What? And you just elaborate  little on why you what's through  in 2023 and do you feel? that  you have covered the, you've  addressed the issues that point  >> Aidan Crowe: Yeah sure. So  the model we had in 23, when I  joined, we had guards inside the  building and they've kind of  focused on the how the building  operate and we record  everything in great details,  like every kind of instant that  happens on site is recorded so  I can tell you for a fact that  our percentage of security  issues per bookings is not point  six of Dalston, which means  that, you know, six and a  thousand bookings, have  something that could be security  in sense that could be someone  smoking in their room or vaping,  or it could be something more   serious. Which we can wish. We  can break down further, that was  probably more like 2% when, in  October 23. So, that's, that's  come down. But the big thing for  me, was to push the guards  outside and have them in IVs  because we were spending money  on guards. The people didn't  realize were there and that what  managing the kind of outside  footprint, which is way where  the neighbor complaints were   coming from. So it's we're a  good point now, we don't really  have issues on the inside.  Very, very rarely. I think  we've got a handle on making  sure people feel safer as  they're going outside, and that  we're not. Creating a nuisance  in the local environment. So  like I said, I had to bring in  a whole new. scary Contractor  company, train them, just want  to get to the point that I felt  like I was confident that we  would handle everything  correctly.   >> Sem Moema (Cllr): Okay.  Gerard. Got some questions about  controlling outside but they can  come later.  >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): Okay.  Councilor Trout and I can see  your hands up But Amanda, and  Amanda was there before use or  taking you in one second.   >> Amanda Nauth: Yes, sir. I  don't if you want to get  verification on the opening  hours, because it says seven  till  Seven may until 2 am, is that  correct? Or is that?   >> Aidan Crowe: Yeah, that's  great. 2 am.   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): Yeah,  opening hours. Yeah, we can kind  of discuss all this in the In  the discussion as well, the  opening hours cast of trout and  >> Lynne Troughton (Cllr): Thank  you, Chair and Aidan. When did  the new security team start?   >> Aidan Crowe: They?  >> Lynne Troughton (Cllr): They?   >> Aidan Crowe: Sorry, go.  >> Lynne Troughton (Cllr): Sort  of.   >> Aidan Crowe: They were.  >> Lynne Troughton (Cllr): They?   >> Aidan Crowe: I think a year  ago now, so, 18 months. Yeah, a  year ago?  >> Lynne Troughton (Cllr): And  where would the sale of alcohol?  Take place.  >> Aidan Crowe: so when when you  walk into the building, there's  a kind of communal kitchen We  tried it during the when we had  the tens. So we had six days of  selling out girl, but we had a  flight desk as you as you walk  through the main entrance. It's  just under some stairs. I'd be  happy. I took some photos at the  time. I'd be happy to share  after if it would help. And it's  that's just a little small,   little bar area of the bar  bartender behind it and a  fridge. Pretty straightforward  setup.  >> Lynne Troughton (Cllr): Of  thank you and what arrangements  are there for people who want to  smoke.   >> Aidan Crowe: Well, they're  encouraged to move away from the  building the outside of the   building and not linger nearby  or if they're going to be very,  very quiet Because we have,  that's what the guys had to make  sure people aren't being too.   noisy and they can, if say,  individuals going out to smoke,  there's a kind of front yard,  which is When you come off the  street, there's a front yard  about I don't know, three  meters, three meters long and  then our front door that's  that's got Fencing around it  and it's been covered. So you  can't see it from the street. So  an individual could smoke in  there quite quietly without  bothering anyone, if it's a  large group or you know, that  they're being antisocial.  Anyway, what the got to leave  for anything, but they would be  push up towards the history.  >> Lynne Troughton (Cllr): So  how many smokers might there be  any time outside? Would you say?   >> Aidan Crowe: It's pretty.  >> Lynne Troughton (Cllr): it's  >> Aidan Crowe: The, you know,  it depends on on room. Bookings.  The nature of the bookings. So  for example, you might find that  if you get one band in that's a  group of heavy smokers compared  to, you know, we often have a  gospel choirs practice and  stuff. You might not be doing  that. that range and  Generally one or two, I mean,  but sorry. I really struggles to  answer that. Boss specifically.   >> Lynne Troughton (Cllr): Thank  you.  Oh, and the final question about  waste, waste management.   >> Amanda Nauth: US.   >> Lynne Troughton (Cllr): Yes.   >> Amanda Nauth: Answers with  your needs.   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): If so I  was just getting a bit of echo,  I thought it might help if I  muted, but Yeah, carry on  Castle. Trust   >> Lynne Troughton (Cllr): it  was just a question about,  waste management. How, you know,  obviously alcohol sales,  generates waste. So,   >> Aidan Crowe: Yeah, so we're  not one of the proposed  conditions that we propose that  we wouldn't sell any glass.   glassware as part of this, it  would just be the cans or you  know, serving soft. cardboard,  couple of drinks and We have  some fairly extensive. This two  very large bins as you coming on  the left that gets record  collected. So any any waste  generated by that would just go  straight into that and they're  the kind of sight bins, which we  have a contract with her with a  we're supposed to come to get  rid of what I proposing is to  also, put a bigger public bin in  place because I think what's  happening is, as you walk past  our site, we've got a kind of a  long low wall, which we had to  put hedges on top of to stop  people Sitting on top of, I  think some people are just throw  in there, rubbish like takeaway  boxes over that on the way home.  I honestly don't think that's  just us, That's you know I  spent a lot of time. It's  awesome. Now with the people  just walking down that street  in the two am We're a long blank  relatively anonymous buildings,  they feel comfortable. Just  check the stuff over the top.  That's where I think. If we get  bin on the far end people  hopefully use that obviously   I'm such a baby. What is some  people ignore it, which is why  you've got the cleaner going  through and and it's a big thing  every morning.   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): okay,  council travel is that   Brilliant. I mean, we can  investigate some of this a bit  further in the  discussion phase. Okay, let's  bring in PC Griggs. PC Griggs.  There was a witness statement  that was mentioned in your  report. And you representation  just wondering if you just in  your representation. Now, if  you could just take us through  Some of that as well. Would be  good. It'll be useful for us.  Thank you.  >> Amanda Griggs: get and sorry  and the statement itself just  lists so the instance they've  been in around. It's come from  one of the local offices on the  sofa neighborhood, team that  covers The covers private  studios. So let's say, Aidan  will probably knows me quite   well, and it's just few of the  incidents over on back to  January 24. And however, I did  look at a bit more detail  recently. They asked that he was  just in the residents had lots  of issues of the area And asked  for a statement and that's what  he submitted for me. I have  looked at a bit more. And I  say I'll go through them. It  starts with January 24. There  was a male, could be within  quite toxicated. They'd been in  the studios who ended up being  robbed on his way home. However,  I would say that with the  control of alcohol sales, that  would be lessened because they  can control drinking a little  bit more. So, a kind of  disregarded and regarded that  one slightly. And yeah, there's  a sort of showing the SIA and  the people, they're doing their  jobs a bit more, to be honest  with you and one of them was a  male trying to tailgate into  the building behind another  group and the FAA stopped him  and the SAA. I think the female  was actually racially abused by  the person trying to get  in. So again, if I were doing  their job there and there's a  couple of cases of people that  had been outside smoking  cannabis, they've been banned  from the venue that both got  community resolutions As part  of that, and something you in  18, that got an ISB warning.  there was an instant, I think it  was been a miscommunication  about somebody within a studio  and called police and them as  males wearing balaclav is trying  to get in, and it turned out,  they were actually recording a  music video somewhere else in   the building and got the actual  wrong studio door. So it was a  bit of a miscommunication there  but that was a call to police  and And then there was  intelligence about a music video  being filmed there that   involved them gangnam about we  can't stop, obviously gang  nominals going and recording  stuff and we wouldn't expect  people to unless they're called  in trouble if they're just  recording a music video. And  they're not causing trouble.  Then they've got every right to  be there as much as anybody  else. And if they're giving the  details and booking, the venue  in the studios and in the  correct way, then again,   There's this we can't stop from  doing that, so unless they're  causing problems it was just a  bit of intelligence that that  you the studios and in all  fairness there is some that  had certainly been some social  behavior and no colleague  Of-minded, a lot a lot of work.  For the last application and had  meetings and stuff regarding it.  We are more concerned about how  that it's going to be managed  and stored. And where the egg  group be kept when it's one in  use and to not being used. It's  a couple of questions that  perhaps it can be asked answered  when we get to discussion phase  and And that bit about after.  So you talked about as well  about the two beers after you  finish serving up to to a clock.  and they probably my concerns  and I think, Upon looking in a  bit more detail, please. And now  minded that a license would   give us more control Make  things a bit tighter. So we  have got a bit of come back, a  bit more enforcement. Should  there be any issues now?  at the moment it's down to using  ASD warnings and community  protection mornings and things  like that to just stop in the  end social behavior outside.  Obviously, if we've got a  license there, we've got a  little bit more. With any  conditions on it, we've got a  bit more somewhere else we can  enforce and something else we  can use to do any important,  should we need to? And   hopefully that will help.  Contain and sort of make it a  better place and deflects any  and social behavior away  somewhere else. And I think  that's probably about it for  police at the moment. And if  you've got any questions,  obviously, please let us know.   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): Okay,  thank you. PC Griggs for that.  Okay, well I think we'll just  move straight into the  discussion phase. We don't have  any other persons on the call  but obviously we have read  their statements online so let's  start with Customer customer.  Where would you like to come in?   >> Sem Moema (Cllr): Yeah.  So are you suggesting from the  police? As perspective? It would  be profitable to have a license  and not have customers bringing  their own alcohol onto the  premises at all.   >> Amanda Griggs: I think it  helped control it a lot more and  because, obviously, they can and  stuff, they can then live it.  How much alcohol people are  drinking and know what they're  drinking. They're bringing it in  themselves, you've got no  control over. what's coming in.  At least if we think served and  controlled by staff there,   you've got some control over.  What? What's going on?   >> Sem Moema (Cllr): Yeah, and  then there was a suggested  drinking up time.  And your colleague said, how was  asking, how alcohol would be  managed after 11? So it's for  you but also for Aidan.   >> Amanda Griggs: Of.   >> Sem Moema (Cllr): It'd be  helpful to understand.   >> Aidan Crowe: Yeah.   >> Sem Moema (Cllr): so,   >> Aidan Crowe: so there's two  options, one is we could just  blanket the guards we have could  say absolutely no alcohol after  11 o'clock. I we're still going  to be bag checks as you come  in. So some people make late  late, bookings and they'll turn  up at midnight and one of the  an hour in a recording room for  you know, it's a lot of   musicians work through the  nights that's just What feels  them and we could say, we're  gonna search all. bags and  we're gonna refuse entry to you.  We're gonna come to get your  outgod and get it back when you  leave, which is what, which what  we do our Camden, sorry what we  do. Um used to do at Camden say  we actually stopped doing that  accountant and went into a   different mode where we allow  people to bring three beers and  the amounts of appreciation.  Because she closed at two I  think more than two beers are  needed. Anyway it Camden. We  say you can have three beers or  side as that's it. And we're  not we're gonna confiscate  anything else off. You get that  back when you leave which we  did because it basically stopped  a lot of arguments and tension  because people will still  getting what they wanted as a  little compromise. They got a   little drink inside, say, what  then kicking off with the  security staff.  we were saying that control  because we were allowing them a  little bit, then  taking off, you know, liquor or  excess beer was an easier thing  to do. But   >> Sem Moema (Cllr): Okay.   >> Aidan Crowe: but that's just  operationally if you, if you  guys want to completely banned,  then enforce them.   >> Sem Moema (Cllr): well, it's  more the question that if  people are basically drinking on  the premises until 2 am, How  where are your security guards  then whilst all of that?   >> Aidan Crowe: wmgt230, until  the   >> Sem Moema (Cllr): Every day,  there's a security guard on site  until 2:30.   >> Aidan Crowe: Yeah, yeah.  Until close already.  >> Sem Moema (Cllr): Pc Griggs,  I guess you've covered that a  bit.  I had some questions about how  you manage the outside space.   and you've talked about how you  manage the inside space, but  although the other persons  aren't here,  some of what they have mentioned  tallies with the police reports  that we've seen   >> Aidan Crowe: Mm-hmm.   >> Sem Moema (Cllr): Around  public urination.  broken glass in the streets and  a concern from somebody that  you're trying to turn this into  a venue rather than a recording  studio. So maybe to take those  in turn. What can you just talk  us through the toilet  facilities? What happens at? If  I don't know, let's see you've  got three studios with four   people. Each one in the morning.  That's a lot of people who are  drinking.   >> Aidan Crowe: Yeah. so,  >> Sem Moema (Cllr): And they  leave and yeah, people are  paying in the streets in. a  regular neighborhood. How are  you managing that? What are your   >> Aidan Crowe: first sure,  there's two floors, a parietales  and we've got, I think five   toilets across the two floors so  there's no need. There's ample  toilet provision. There's no  need. You know, it's like if  you're need the toilet, there's  never been a toilet cue. I have  seen whenever I've looked at the  Ccv or like anything you're on  the site, there is nothing.  Queuing for the toilet. You can  you can get one if you want.  And There has obvious. There  was that one incident and that  was recorded. Unfortunately,  some people will just be idiots  and we will obviously we will  ban them if that happens.  The managing the outside space,  the key to that is having the  constant presence of the guard  and the guard being in high vis  which actually quite a big  thing to push a lot of cost  something like wearing high   viscos, it makes them feel  exposed, but it's really  important to have them doing   that and then to be Moving  people away from the building as  quickly as possible. Moving them  up the street towards the High  Street way you've got the busier  element anyway, rather other  areas and It's just a disposal  policy that you have any other  site. Hive is moving people  away. Making sure if people have  had a bit too much that they've  got ubers, although with  friends so they're not not  leaving vulnerable. Sometimes  people will wait inside in the  communal area until the until an  uber pulls up nearby. Not go up  for that and that's the kind of  thing. A good God will manage to  to keep an eye on who needs who  needs, what who's vulnerable and  he's gonna be acting out and  there, you know, it's there will  always be some kind of issue  because they're always be a base  level of as someone could act.  That's very reason.   >> Sem Moema (Cllr): So, yeah.  So So you're dispersal policies  to move people away from that  premises, past the Kingsgate  estate, and to Kingsland Road.   >> Aidan Crowe: Yeah. Yeah.  >> Sem Moema (Cllr): Okay, I I  guess maybe. Council of  Charlton had a question about  this and I don't want to show  you a question but  It feels, it's just really hard  to wrap my head around. So your  license here, you're applying  for is up until midnight. Of  the nights but there is  basically alcohol on the  premises at all times. I don't   >> Aidan Crowe: That won't be if  we get the license approved. So  what we're saying is good,   >> Sem Moema (Cllr): But there  is a people are bringing their  own alcohol, they can do that  anytime right.   >> Aidan Crowe: they won't be  allowed to until after the last  so the soup talk what we're  saying we can either let people  bring in say you turn up at  midnight and we've stopped   serving 11.   >> Sem Moema (Cllr): Yeah.   >> Aidan Crowe: Then we can say,  we will allow you to bring in  two years or we can say I'm   sorry The the cutoff point for  alcohol is 11 o'clock. No one is  allowed in with alcohol. You  have to leave it with us. We  were confiscate it so absolutely  not saying we're going to serve  alcohol and allow people to  bring their own at the same  time, that would be carnage. And  I would never, I would never go  for that.   >> Sem Moema (Cllr): I say,  okay.   >> Aidan Crowe: And that's our  just address your last point on  the nightclub issue or the We're  absolutely not trying to move  away from what we do, as a core  business. I mean David,  Borrie's on the call, this is  his baby. He would not want us  to turn into something that is  not that moves away from the  core of. What, what pirate is we  do monthly? Community Events.  It's all about kind of inspiring  musicians and and growing the   community that the reason we  want to sell alcohol is to  control it and to make money  that allows us to employ guards  rather than wanting to employ  guys to sell alcohol, If that  makes sense. It's more about the  control than it's about the,  the money.   >> Sem Moema (Cllr): Okay.   >> Aidan Crowe: And that's why  we're not looking to sell to any  member of the public, you won't  be able to just walk in off the  street. You would need to have  your booking, which gives you a  unique code, which allows you to  open the front door. You can't  even get into the studio rooms  without a code. Only comes to  you. If you've made a booking  and you only get a booking, if  you get if you upload your   driving license, or passports,  or it's a bit, like an airbnb  type thing online. we have to  upload that before. So we do  have quite a level of control  and the other thing I should  say on the dispersal policy,  it's our gods of regulars. We   have the same guy works for four  nights a week, and another lady  works. The rest of the time  that they also they know all the  regular people there Value  that, it's not a member's club  but there's there is a crossover  people value, their pirates.  >> Sem Moema (Cllr): Yep.  >> Aidan Crowe: and some access.  And if we cut them off for bad  behavior, then they can't  perform their music and they  can't practice their Their  tracks or it's quite career  limiting for people. So there is  an element of control that  comes from that.   >> Sem Moema (Cllr): Okay, just  one final thing. Are you  confident that when your  security guards disperse  people, when they leave? That.  That those people are not kind  of taking up the the drinks that  you've confiscated and given  back to them and drinking on the  street.   >> Aidan Crowe: Wait, we move.  So again, we do this account and  we have to just move people   along as quickly as possible,  and   >> Sem Moema (Cllr): Now, I  understand that. But how are  you? I guess it's if you were a  regular pub. We'd be talking  about off sales and on sales,  like people taking drinks with  them down the street.   >> Aidan Crowe: Yeah, and I  think this will become less of  an issue. As people know that  say we say we were granted a  license. You know, the website  will say, Don't bring her an  alcohol. We sell alcohol   there'll be, it'll become less  of a thing that we have to  confiscate alcohol people  because they will know people  that have attended us before  will gradually. Learn that, you  can't bring your alcohol if you  bring your alcohol to to  pirate. You've got to have a  complicate until the end of the  United.   >> Sem Moema (Cllr): No, but  that's my point at the end of  the night, you give it back and  then they wandered out. Right.   >> Aidan Crowe: As that as that  goes on.   >> Sem Moema (Cllr): So how  would you control? That is what  I'm asking to stop that  happening because the  complaints are that there's  broken glass in the street. And  I appreciate it's not all from  you but it seems logical that it   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): Seven  minutes by the way, folks, seven  minutes half.   >> Sem Moema (Cllr): Sorry.  Yeah.   >> Aidan Crowe: In in the same  way that any other, you know, we  we would ask people to move   away, we would ban them if they  behave badly at all, if they've  asked them not to drink out  front in such drinking out  front, we'll ban them. I banned,  you know, plenty cups last year  again.   >> Sem Moema (Cllr): Okay, thank  you.   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): Thank  you, Customer.   >> Lynne Troughton (Cllr): Thank  you, Customer. Thanks Chair. So  it's just about this.  um, bringing alcohol after, you  know, the licensed hours.  wouldn't that encourage if you,  you know, if you do allow people  to do that, wouldn't that  encourage people to come after  the licensing hours? So they  could bring the range of drinks  that they wanted. And you know,  I mean items is, you know,  potentially quite a lot.  Is there a way that you think  you could manage that to  encourage people to use the  venue and on earlier, rather  than later hours?  because you know, is the late  hours that caused the residents,  you know? The the problems  that's one thing The other  thing. I wanted to ask.  the police officer whether there  were any ongoing proceedings or  any further incidents since the  report in the MG 11, Since the  last one, it was in March,  wasn't it? So have the has there  been anything that you're aware  of since then?   >> Aidan Crowe: Should we go?   >> Lynne Troughton (Cllr):  Should we go?  >> Aidan Crowe: I think David  would like to answer your first  point if possible.   >> David Borrie: Yeah, thank you  so much. Sorry to jump in,  appreciate you. You haven't  really heard much from me  today. So I'll just jump in on  this point and so,  If it, I mean, the whole point  of this is you've heard from,  you know, Aidan today is about  us controlling. The drinking  that's currently happening on  site. So when Aidan is saying  that, you know, not point six  percent of bookings result, the  security which might be vaping  smoking that that's happening  with customers allowed to bring  their own alcohol. And, you  know, it cancels the chance to  your point. They can choose to  bring anything, they can bring  spirits, they can bring wine,  they can bring, you know  anything? What we're trying to  do here Is reduced down the  options of the types. That  brings their drinks. They can   bring to lower alcohol beverages  where we can control the  quantity my preference  personally would be Have a  later license for the times that  we open later. So we can control  it, the whole way through. Now  I don't know if that's, you  know, essentially appetizing to  anyone here but that effective  is in the spirit of what we're  trying to do here is we can  limit the number of drinks and  we can limit what types of  drinks People are drinking. If  we can control what people to  drinking my personal preference  would be, You know, we sell  alcohol, Let's say up till  midnight or 1   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): 10.   >> David Borrie: am and then we  just We say after that. There  is no alcohol and cell, you  know, whatever sensible and  people aren't allowed to bring  their own drinks. And I actually  think that that also   potentially then resolves the  previous concern which is to  say, you know, how do you stop  people once they've been turned  away or got their drinks back  then, drinking on the street or  Frankie we would just  rather. Well, we would prefer to  provide beers sizes, can  cocktails and that's it. And  not let anyone leave with any  drinks because they're so  accurate. You can effectively  prevent that. And if you're  coming to the site earlier, then  we  just say no alcohol on site  until our licensing hours are  open. and I appreciate us a  slight deviation from what we've  applied for here, and it may  not be a good solution, but I  just wanted to jump in there and  say that that work for us.   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): Because  the Triton, are you happy? Yep.  Okay, folks.   >> Lynne Troughton (Cllr): Okay.  PC Gr.   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): Epic  Griggs.   >> Amanda Griggs: and I did have  a little activity. There's  anything else and I asked a big  email, the local semper team to  get back to me and I haven't  heard from them and  all I could find was one called  or one incident where if I  actually asked for police  assistance because there was  people that refuted to leave. So  again, if they're doing their  job, trying to get people to  leave, but they should be and   there were shooting too  difficult to please assistance,  but that's all I could find  since Like January January,  February times.   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr):  Customer Wema.  >> Sem Moema (Cllr): Really  quick and you're smoking area or  your courtyard area out the  front. What what's a, what's  its capacity? What's What's the  number of people that could be  outside any one time?  >> Aidan Crowe: Because up front  and not inside you floor, space  capacity is pretty big. You   could probably get about 30, 30  people in there. Actually, you  can safely, exit quite quickly.  That would be quite a sight fit.   >> Sem Moema (Cllr): Okay.   >> Aidan Crowe: Yeah.  >> David Borrie: And that's all  sitting behind the fence and the  gates. that leads to the main  road.   >> Sem Moema (Cllr): So, I'm not  saying this happens, but you  could have 30 people outside any  one time.   >> Aidan Crowe: you could, but a  are  capacity. We, you know, we were  rarely at full capacity or  anyone here for capacity. Even  at peak times, if you did, that  would require everyone to  something about for the  cigarette break at the same  time.  >> David Borrie: Okay.   >> Aidan Crowe: And even if they  did the guard would then be  moving people on, because 30, we  wouldn't do 30 out front it's  just you. That's what it could  fit if you wanted to.   >> Sem Moema (Cllr): So if we  reminder to grant, would you  consider putting a limit on the  maximum number of people  outside of any one time?  >> Aidan Crowe: Yeah, yeah, and  the only with in the front yard  absolutely manageable. The only  thing where it become tricky for  us is how many people around  outside the front of the on the  road itself because where do you  draw the line? But the front  yard absolutely   >> Sem Moema (Cllr): Okay. I  mean the I would, I would  suggest that the line is what   If they're people from your  premises then the number would  apply whether it's people going  on to the road or not. That  would be part of the SIA. Job.  I would have thought if You're  apply.   >> Aidan Crowe: Yeah, you just  get some traffic from people  going up to get food and coming  out, you know as you get   >> Sem Moema (Cllr): Oh no, I  don't like that. Like properly  outside.   >> Aidan Crowe: All right. Yeah.  No, that's yeah, that's fine.  Yeah.   >> Sem Moema (Cllr): Okay, fine.   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): Okay,  look, thanks everyone for your  questions. We're all hitting 14  minutes, so we're going to be  running over it. People don't  mind because I've got a few   things to just talk about here.  Okay, what do I start with this?  I mean you've mentioned you want  to control things so we can help  you do that by basically sort  of buttoning down some of these  conditions and offering up more  conditions. basically on your  license to kind of help you with  that, if that makes sense. But  obviously you know you have to  decide whether you like these  ideas or not. the first thing I  would say but I'd like to know  really because you've got 14   recording studios. 14. DJ  studios and seven band rehearsal  rooms and three  podcast studios. It's a lot of  stuff going on what I mean, at  your maximum kind of thing.  let me phrases properly, you  know, when you are, I'm not  saying what, what is the  maximum capacity when all those  are full? Because they won't be  full. All the time. But when  you're like full kind of, you  know, when you're up when you've  got a really good day and you've  got loads of stuff like kind of  working out whatever, how many  people are in the building  roughly on a really good day,  you know?  >> David Borrie: yeah, I I can  say that one and so DJ Studios  recording studios tend to be  used in one. Two's band studios  tend to be, you know, typically   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): Yeah, I  just need numbers numbers.  >> David Borrie: Fine. Okay, so  the occupancy on a good day is  about 30% occupancy on the 24  hour clock. So each studio be  used for about   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): so,   >> David Borrie: you know, it  has  Sorry. Yeah, I was trying to  give you the numbers that led to  the the Estimation. But on any  day you could be looking at if  every single studio was busy at  the same time, which isn't   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): Yeah,  which is unlikely to pay but I'm  just saying a good day.   >> David Borrie: Yeah, you know,  you could be looking at 60  people in the building.   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): 60.   60.  >> David Borrie: 60.  >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): zero.  Okay, brilliant, excellent. So  we know what was updating with  the capacity dances reasonable  number of people, okay? Just on  some of the conditions. I'm just  going to straight into the  conditions on the alcohol.  Would you consider a condition?  I'm just being completely   direct Now. Would you consider a  condition around saying? No?  Alcohol to be allowed to be  brought into the venue by  customers, full stop. And it  basically mirrors your current  license,  >> David Borrie: It if their  licensing hours potentially  could be extended a little bit  to cover, you know, some  additional hours   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): The,  the problem with that is, is  that you've applied for the  hours, you applied for on this  application. If you wanted more  hours, you'd have to come back  but there is something there in  that. If you did get these hours  you could prove that you can  operate the venue successfully  and then you can come back for a  variation. that is possible.  We've cost you some money, but  you could do that. But at the  moment we couldn't do that here  because you've   >> David Borrie: I said,   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): applied  with the hours that you've got.  I mean,   >> David Borrie: I, I  understand, Yeah. I apologize. I  don't know the process that well  but I understand exactly what  you say.   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): Yeah,  but it would give you an  opportunity to basically sort  of, you know, three or four  months down the line, maybe six  months or whatever to come back  and say We've done this. It's  been successful and I want a  variation you could do that if  we're minded to grant me get the  condition sorted out. So just   >> David Borrie: Can I just?   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): back to  the just back to that question,  about that condition about no  alcohol to be allowed to be  brought in have  >> David Borrie: could I could,  I just check with Aidan. What  what's the time that we're  allowed to serve up to is it  11pm every night? Or is it,  11pm, and then, 12 pm weekends.   >> Aidan Crowe: topic, We can  well top in front Incessity and  then 10:30 on a Sunday,   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): Yeah,  so you're basically you're at  the moment.   >> David Borrie: And I'm good.   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): your  LP3 which is core hours which  the local authority say is fine.  So basically the weekends at 12  the rest of times 11 apart from  Sunday, which is 10:30  >> David Borrie: we would be  very happy to start with that if  that was a way that we could  start to prove ourselves with  the license, you know, that  would be great. I mean, you  know, my preference would be if  we can prove ourselves to   potentially expand a couple of  those out. Even if it was  actually by an hour,   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): Yep.  >> David Borrie: just to cover  better open time. So we don't  get   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): Yep.   >> David Borrie: conflict with  customers trying to get alcohol,  but   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): Because  that one, that one condition was  sort out a lot of problems,  right?   >> David Borrie: Yeah, that  completely I mean you know, in  the end as we said this is all  about   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): Yeah.   >> David Borrie: control you  know, that that gives us all.   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): Okay,  excellent. Okay, okay, so let me  just run through some other  stuff in just on the live music  trying to understand because you  at the moment you've applied   for live music up till 21:30  but you're rehearsal studies.  You're having live music going  on. Anyway, are you kind of  meaning that this is applicable  to the event you describe and  the documents sort of thing? If  you want to put on like a kind  of public sort of event then  you require,   >> Aidan Crowe: Yeah, this is  the orcs. This is the York.   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): the  thing is we don't you wouldn't  need a license up until 11  anyway,   >> Aidan Crowe: Yeah, fine, I  guess.   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): You  don't mean, so it's sort of  irrelevant both of those.   >> Aidan Crowe: It was to cover,  it was the cover of this one  month. The event that we do when  people play music in there in  the communal.  >> David Borrie: Up.   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): Yeah,  but you can.   >> Aidan Crowe: Yes, we finish  at 9:30, so fine.   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): Yeah,  excellent. Okay, folks is bear  with me on this. condition, 13,  pays 21. It mentions.  One SIA from 1600 until 30  minutes past the end of service.  Any day, alcohol is being sold.  Can we take that bit out at the  end? Any day alcohol is being  sold because obviously you'll  be selling it every day, right?  You want choose to sell it on a  Monday and not on a Tuesday,  right?   >> David Borrie: I can't imagine  saying, I  >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): So you  happy for us to take that out  that last bit any day alcohol  being sold, it's in one of your  conditions is that okay with  you?   >> David Borrie: Any day. So  it's to say, if people, if we  didn't want to sell alcohol on a  Monday, people couldn't bring it  in on a Monday.   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): Yeah,  but that's unlikely, right? I  mean if you've got an alcohol  license, you want to be selling  every day, don't you?   >> Aidan Crowe: well, we  actually   >> David Borrie: I,   >> Aidan Crowe: we don't sell it  on a Monday in Birmingham  because it's quiet and that's  why it's that's where it comes  from that. But we could I think  we could live with it.  >> David Borrie: i I think side,  I think so I mean, I think from  what you're saying counts the   Smith, there's the opportunity  to come back and did you know,  apply for   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): Yeah.   >> David Borrie: amendments if  things aren't working and, you  know, I want, we want to do  this in the Spirit  collaboration. So, you know, if  we can help you and you can help  us, that's great. And then if  things aren't working, we can  come back and have a   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): Yeah.   >> David Borrie: sense of  conversation. Then works.   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr):  Fantastic. Okay, let me just  carry on folks, it bear with me.  Take a deep breath. He's  looking through my notes.  Oh yeah, condition, 28 pays. 22  Aidan is talked about no noise  or M&A from premises, which  gives rise to nuisance, full  stop. It'd be good to add in.  so, to add that on to the end of  that condition,   >> Aidan Crowe: Sure. Yeah.   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): Yeah,  excellent. Doors and windows  will be closed after 11. Yeah,  that's that's gonna, that's  applicable.   >> Aidan Crowe: Yeah.   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr):  Dispersal policy. But 60  people, I think it is important  to have a dispersal policy. And  you've got a written dispersal  policy.   >> Aidan Crowe: Yes. Yeah.   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): You do  and have you shared that with  the local authority?  >> Aidan Crowe: No, because  normally I would with a license  value but I'm happy to, yes,  that's   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): Yeah,  Amanda if we could just note  that they can share their  dispersible policy with the  local authority.  I think alcohol sales after four  would be good as well.   >> Aidan Crowe: What can we  about Saturdays? Saturdays.  Right.   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): Well.   >> Aidan Crowe: Big first.   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): Yeah, I  mean what do you but it's down  to members really members? What  do you are Saturday for TIP  from 10?   >> Aidan Crowe: Or Saturday from  midday people. People like to  drink early basically and it's  it's a busier busier day when we  can. Really improve her.   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): Okay,  well, we can talk about that as  as members. So you say 12 in a  Saturday?   >> Aidan Crowe: Yeah.   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): okay,  and then for 4pm the rest of the  time  Perfect. Excellent. Okay. Nearly  there in Duncan capacity. I  would like to attach some waste  conditions.   >> Amanda Nauth: just,  Yeah.   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): Sunday  would be four still every other  every day.   >> David Borrie: I do think, I  think Sunday would be good to  have from midday out from the  same time as Saturday. If I'm  honest with the Aidan,   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): Okay,  we'll discuss that. Thank you.  Okay, yeah, I would like to have  some waste conditions attached.  We have some standardized waste  conditions. I'm super   >> Aidan Crowe: so,   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): are  they would they be relevant to  to this Ben? You would say those  those sort of standardized  conditions that we've   >> Subangini Sriramana: Yeah.   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr):  sometimes put in on on.  Licenses, would they need sight  of those to make? a decision  about whether we can put them  in?   >> Subangini Sriramana: it's  sure we can email those  conditions of to them so they  can have   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): they're  just so general, waste  conditions really as to what  you, you know, how to do things  really around waste. How to  manage it really. That's all it  is quite straightfor.   >> Aidan Crowe: Yeah.  >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): It's  quite straightforward. And then  the last one for me is a  condition around, keeping the  outside tidy and clean. How  would you feel about that? And  I don't mean the road, I mean,  just sort of in the generalized  area outside, you know, the  front of your premises  basically. You know if you want  to go out onto the footpath,  you know, lift up a bit more,  that's up to you. But, you   know, just keeping you a bit  kind of tidy and clean.   >> David Borrie: As long as it  relates to our demise, I think  that's absolutely fine as say,  you know, if we would take  responsibility for the road in  the pavements, then that would  be much more difficult.   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): We  wouldn't expect you to do that  but but  >> David Borrie: Okay.   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): that's  just that would be a kind of  goodwill gesture really in  behalf of   >> David Borrie: We we  absolutely will and we are we  are doing that now. I just mean  that you know, I wouldn't want  my license at threat. If someone  left a beer bottle on the other  side of the road,   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): No, of  course, of course. Yes. And  there's something else. What was  I was thinking?  I think I've covered everything  customer.   >> Sem Moema (Cllr): Yes. Sorry,  I've had to switch to another  device and putting a capacity on  the outside area for smokers.   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): Yes,  exactly. I was that's the one I  missed out. Okay, you mentioned  that you might have 30. That's  that's the one thing I want to  understand is this kind of the  front the front area that you  mentioned. When I look on  Google maps, I see a building  and I see a small little wall in  front of it and I see a kind of  like a A barricade an entrance  to the left of the building and  then I can open section to the  right of the building is, you  just look as you look down  towards the shutters, there's a  bit with the shutters on there.   >> Aidan Crowe: Yes, that's the   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): Is that  the is that the beat you're  talking about that bits now,  fenced off. Is that right?   >> Aidan Crowe: Yeah.  >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): Okay.  I see. And how do you access  that bit?   >> Aidan Crowe: There's a gate,  but   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): There's  a gate. So no members of the  public can go down there. It's  only people from the vent. You  can go in there through a gate  to smoke. Yeah.   >> Aidan Crowe: No, sorry it's  it's yes the access to the front  of the building. So you go   through the front gate, you're  into the yard and then you get  into the front  >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): Right?  Okay, take me through sorry, let  me just show you, okay. It's  not my laptop. I can see a small  ball in front of the building.  Yeah. Right? And then people  walk they go in that way. Yeah,  through through the front of  the building. But from the road  through the front of the  building past that little wall.  Was it was the front yard you're  talking about.   >> Aidan Crowe: Yeah, so I think  that where you're the bit,  you're seeing by the by the   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): oh,   >> Aidan Crowe: shutters, that  is our front entrance, the old  entrance. has been closed up  has been for years. I think  that's what it looks that if  you're looking from Google Maps  that would naturally.  >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): it's   >> Aidan Crowe: Yes. Yeah.   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): Dirty  front engines. Got you. Okay?  And you say that's fenced off.   >> Aidan Crowe: Yes, it is just  in line with the rest of the the  rest of the fence line.   >> David Borrie: Yeah, I've just  looked on Google account Smith  and Google Maps is not up to   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): Okay.   >> David Borrie: date. It's  it's, you can just see directly  through the roller shutter, what  is   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): Yeah.  >> David Borrie: now present is  effectively where the purple  bins are that, you can see in  that image. There's a fence and  a gate across that area. The  fence is then covered in sort  of fake foliage and there's also  bushes all along that small  wall.   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): Right.  So the members of the   >> David Borrie: people.   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr):  Brilliant.  >> David Borrie: Correct. It's  completely closed.   >> Aidan Crowe: No.   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr):  Perfect. Okay.   >> David Borrie: what one thing  I would say is, so, And an  event, like the community event  orcs where people have been  trapped inside for two hours.  When they then come out of the  building.  you tend to get you know, maybe  15 20 people who go for a smoke  especially on a hot night but  that is all before, 9:30 pm. So  if we're going to limit the  number of people outside, can we  have it time sensitive? I ate  it to the hours that matter  having people outside as opposed  to just a blanket. You can  never have because you know on  the summer's day like this at  4:00 in the afternoon frankly  people.   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): Where  we're just talking specifically  about smokers really. You know  it's it's in terms of in terms  of numbers of people who want to  get some fresh air or whatever.  If they've been in the studio a  long time, they will get a bit  daylight, whatever some fresh  air.  >> David Borrie: Yeah.   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): you  know, that's perfectly fine for  them to go out there. If you've  done your fire risk assessment  and all that kind of  >> David Borrie: Fine.   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): thing,  that's all safe.  >> David Borrie: Okay, great.   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): And  numbers. So you  >> David Borrie: Oh fine. Fine.  Not just   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): Yes, so  we need you to give us a number  around the smokers. You  mentioned 30 could potentially  be out there. Smoking seems a  bit much to me so I don't know.  Throw in maybe a reasonable  figure say around about 15 or  something like that. I   >> Aidan Crowe: Yeah.  >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): don't  know how you feel about that.   >> David Borrie: Can we go to  20?  >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): Because  of Troutman's looking a little  bit funny about 20.  >> Lynne Troughton (Cllr): tea I  think sorry chair to butt in but  I do think that you know it's  only a minority of people that  smoke and, you know,   >> David Borrie: we don't allow  they, sorry we don't  >> Lynne Troughton (Cllr): we  don't allow me non smokers,  don't want to be walking  through, you know, smoking  people to get in and out of the  building. So it does need to be  an area to the side of the  entrance. That is  restricted, you know, to smoking  area and I think the number the  15 I think is too many. I think  it should be nearer 12, but I'm  happy to  >> Sem Moema (Cllr): Can we?   Hi, sorry.   >> David Borrie: Can I can I  just jump in?  >> Sem Moema (Cllr): I just  wanted to really click Add  perhaps to Gilbert and Lynne  that if we've conceded the  principle that we're happy to  put a limit on the number of  people outside smoking, then  maybe that's something we can  discuss separately. What? That  might be.   >> David Borrie: Could I just  say that a lot of our customers  might not smoke, but they do  Vape   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): Right.  >> David Borrie: and they can't  vape inside our fire, alarms are  extremely sensitive and there's  a high proportion of our  customers that do Vape. And we  we specifically tell them they  have to vape outside because if  one fire alarm goes off in our  building the entire building   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): Yep.  Yep.   >> Sem Moema (Cllr): No, I I  guess. That it the kind of  discussions around the total  number of people. Again, if you  were like a borrow a restaurant,  they would still be limits on  the number of people outside  your premises. To do this  particular activity, whether  they're vaping or smoking.   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): Hmm.  >> David Borrie: And that's  fine. I suppose that it just  coming back to Council  Charlton's point. It was there  may not be that many people left  to smoke. There's a lot of  people now who vape so being  able to have 20 people outside  would just mean that I don't  feel like our license would be a  threat. We're very, we very  happy.  >> Sem Moema (Cllr): Okay.   >> David Borrie: obviously to  have continued monitoring of  that and make sure that it was  appropriate and very happy as  well. When we come back, if we  need to come back to amend, the  conditions that you know, any of  that's included. But   >> Sem Moema (Cllr): okay, so I  just really quickly want to add  That. What your proposing then  for the residents of that  street. The upshot of that is  potentially 20, people outside  vaping and drinking.   >> Aidan Crowe: Not drinking.  >> David Borrie: Not drinking.  Not drinking and any vaping and  you know, that 20% limit, I'd be  happy capping off at a certain  time. So,   >> Sem Moema (Cllr): But that's  a third of your total customer  base if your normal capacity is  about 60, that's a lot of  people. That's a large.   >> David Borrie: I I you are we  talking just about smoking and  vaping here, always talking  about customs together.  >> Sem Moema (Cllr): Yes, about  smoking. And   >> David Borrie: okay, because I  think   >> Sem Moema (Cllr): It's  because it's a normal thing to  put to put a suggested limit on  the number of people outside.   >> David Borrie: Yes, and some  people obviously on hot days  like this will just want to go  outside, just to get some fresh  air and if if there's no limit  on that and it's just on the  number of customers smoking and  vaping. Then I think that's  definitely a discussion that,  you know, we're happy to have   in terms of limiting that   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): well,  you've given us, you've give us  a guide, David around 20 and,  you know, we can go away and  discuss that.   >> David Borrie: Yeah, of  course.   >> Aidan Crowe: When it comes to  enforcement, we'll have the, the  likely be say a group of five   won't be vaping. What are we  smoking? The other three are  just be standing there. So it's  about managing that   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): Yeah,  exactly. Yeah. Which is kind of  tricky. PC Griggs you Put your  hand up briefly.   >> Amanda Griggs: Yeah. Oh,  she's gonna say just to guide we  with license privacy that we  have insurance that of the bars  and clubs. So I know he's very  slightly different and we  usually go with the guide of  between 10 and 20% of the  capacity for the smoking area.  So I mean, we've got clubs that  have got 3 4 500 people but we  wouldn't expect them to have.  50 to 100 people outside and  smoking area. They'd be limited  to 20 30, something like that.  That was  >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): Yeah.  >> Amanda Griggs: It is  something that needs to be, it's  more the later hours. And can  it control to making sure that  your Saar controlling those  numbers and they're not causing  a disturbance and stuff like  that. So it's just as a guide,  that's what we generally go for.   >> David Borrie: Yeah, I'm from  a later hours point of view, I  completely understand that.  Yeah, it's more  I guess sunny days, you know,  afternoons early, evenings that  I would just not want to have  our license at risk due to  having people outside who in the  sunshine.   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): Yep,  they'll get that. That just that  just it's just management really  David? Really   >> David Borrie: yeah,  completely   >> Lynne Troughton (Cllr): I  think we get the point and yeah,  we'll take those.   >> David Borrie: Thank you.   >> Lynne Troughton (Cllr):  Things. Thank you, consider.   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): Yeah.  And just just on the, on the  sort of capacity issue, I know I  said, like a good day, but  like, if it was all full,  if everything was really going  like, you know, full on what we  are, then roughly I mean, I  know it's   >> David Borrie: You are. yeah,  so you're looking at about  >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): Okay,  right, so it's not that big, a  difference. Is it between 60 and  85, okay?  >> David Borrie: yeah, if all  the studios are full, you know,  then you you probably have 85   people in the building.   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): It  sounds like a thriving  destination, if you like.   >> David Borrie: I well, I'm yet  to see all the studios full at  the same time. I would love it  as the business owner.  But yeah, it's it's not  practical in terms, just there.  They the capacity that so yeah,  the demand for capacity in the  building   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): Yeah.  Okay then well, I think we've  reached the end of the  discussion we've had about half  an hour. Sorry folks, we've  overrun but I think we've had a  good  discussion. We will go in now to  closing remarks. So I'd like to  invite PC Griggs, just to come  in piece of Griggs, just only  reflections on some of the   conditions that we've laid down  now and agreement with the  applicant. How do you feel now?  >> Amanda Griggs: yet the fair I  think police because more about  how we control this safely and I  think we've got somewhere for  discussion data, police much  happier.   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr):  Brennan. Yeah, just one last  point for me, David just around  smoking cannabis and stuff  which is sort of a bit of a  contentious issue because  obviously it blows everywhere  people to smell it and all that  feeling. You know, I I presume  that. If you do find somebody on  there, doing that, that be  asking them quietly to sort of,  you know, stop   >> David Borrie: we do if it  don't start, then they're  banned, you know, we have known  faces which operates off the  IDs of people. They provide us.  So we recognize you know who is  and isn't abandoned the studios.  So it's a very serious thing for  customers when they're banned  because they're banned from all  32 sites that we we operate.   And we recognize that. So, we  also work hand in hand with the  police. I think actually  Officer Griggs mentioned  earlier. There's been a couple  of community   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): Hmm.   >> David Borrie: warnings, given  off the back of, you know, the  weather. We've done with police  there, you know, and we work  hand in hand. If there's a  problem you know, the police  highlight, then we will go to  band the customers. So we don't  tolerate drugs being tonight  outside. If drugs are being  straight outside then yeah, we  will tell the customer to stop.  If they insist on continuing,  then we'll have to take her the  measures.   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): Yeah,  because there's sort of it tells  you your venue with a bad  reputation, really? When that  sort of thing happens, you know?  So it's important that you just  ask them to move on or whatever.  Okay, so we've got the place and  now it's down to you guys,  really for your closing remarks  really, you know, Aidan or David  or both.  >> David Borrie: Here and Aidan.  I'll let you make the the  closing remarks. You've been  much more put than I have.  >> Aidan Crowe: The hashtag  search. Just just to say, like I  said, before, sorry recap, this  really about Extra Revenue for  sake of revenue, This is about  generating revenue to pay for   security. That's that's what  we're, that's the whole driver  for this. It's worked in  Birmingham and we think it will  work when it's awesome.   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): Okay,  well I think with those extra  conditions, you're definitely be  up to a good start for a more  control if that's what you  really want.  Okay, so we've had closing  remarks. Any points of final  clarification members at all? I  can't see you. Some, you just  have to say, if you do Thank  you Council Charlton. Thank you  very much. Okay, great. So we'll  move on now. So thank you, folks  for  that agenda item. Eight is  temporary event notices. There  are no temporary event notices  today, that's correct. Natalie  isn't it?  >> Natalie Kokayi: there are no  temporary event notices, but if  you just like to note that items  seven was resolved ahead of the  hearing.   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): Yep,  thank you. Yep, item 7 has been  resolved before the hearings, we  don't have that so they're  being no further business to  attend to today. I'm just  calling this meeting to close.  So look, thank you everyone for  your patience. Thank you for  your contributions. And we will  go off and deliberate this, and  you'll have a decision. A  skeleton thing, tomorrow, and a  written one within five working  days.   >> Aidan Crowe: Thank you.  >> David Borrie: Thanks  everybody time.   >> Gilbert Smyth (Cllr): Thank  you very much. Have a good day.  >> Sem Moema (Cllr): Thank you.  Bye.   >> Amanda Nauth: Thank you.   >> Natalie Kokayi: And worry, if  you would stop the live stream  and, and recording please."}]