The role of world governance in addressing global issues with Torbjörn Tännsjö
Democracy Tomorrow
[{'start': '0.240', 'end': '5.359', 'text': 'Hello everyone. Welcome to Democracy'}, {'start': '3.000', 'end': '8.080', 'text': "Tomorrow. Um, today we're going to talk"}, {'start': '5.359', 'end': '9.840', 'text': 'about a topic that uh probably has not'}, {'start': '8.080', 'end': '12.320', 'text': "been at the forefront of most people's"}, {'start': '9.840', 'end': '14.880', 'text': 'minds at any point in their lives, but'}, {'start': '12.320', 'end': '16.320', 'text': 'one that has fundamental importance when'}, {'start': '14.880', 'end': '18.560', 'text': 'it comes to the question of world'}, {'start': '16.320', 'end': '21.520', 'text': 'citizenship. And that is the ancient'}, {'start': '18.560', 'end': '23.920', 'text': 'idea of having not just a national'}, {'start': '21.520', 'end': '26.000', 'text': 'parliament to make political decisions'}, {'start': '23.920', 'end': '28.240', 'text': 'of importance to a country but a world'}, {'start': '26.000', 'end': '31.519', 'text': 'parliament that would collectively make'}, {'start': '28.240', 'end': '34.480', 'text': 'decisions of an international import um'}, {'start': '31.519', 'end': '36.559', 'text': 'on matters that affect the earth as a'}, {'start': '34.480', 'end': '38.559', 'text': 'whole. Climate change, peace and'}, {'start': '36.559', 'end': '40.399', 'text': 'security, the types of things that the'}, {'start': '38.559', 'end': '43.280', 'text': 'UN Security Council is meant to be'}, {'start': '40.399', 'end': '45.760', 'text': 'addressing, things of that nature.'}, {'start': '43.280', 'end': '48.719', 'text': 'There are many different uh formulations'}, {'start': '45.760', 'end': '51.680', 'text': 'that one can imagine about the shape and'}, {'start': '48.719', 'end': '55.079', 'text': 'and size of a world parliament. The the'}, {'start': '51.680', 'end': '58.680', 'text': 'scale excuse me the scale of its'}, {'start': '55.079', 'end': '62.320', 'text': 'jurisdiction. Um who would be elected to'}, {'start': '58.680', 'end': '65.600', 'text': 'it? Who could participate on it? How'}, {'start': '62.320', 'end': '67.680', 'text': 'frequently would it meet? And ultimately'}, {'start': '65.600', 'end': '70.880', 'text': 'where would it gain its political'}, {'start': '67.680', 'end': '72.479', 'text': 'legitimacy from? There are thousands and'}, {'start': '70.880', 'end': '74.960', 'text': 'thousands of questions that still need'}, {'start': '72.479', 'end': '76.600', 'text': 'to be sorted out when it comes to this'}, {'start': '74.960', 'end': '78.720', 'text': 'complex'}, {'start': '76.600', 'end': '80.799', 'text': 'question. Of course, many countries,'}, {'start': '78.720', 'end': '84.479', 'text': 'virtually all countries have parliaments'}, {'start': '80.799', 'end': '87.280', 'text': 'of one sort or another um in incredibly'}, {'start': '84.479', 'end': '89.759', 'text': 'varying degrees of political legitimacy'}, {'start': '87.280', 'end': '91.840', 'text': 'and democratic control. Some parliaments'}, {'start': '89.759', 'end': '95.360', 'text': 'are not democratic whatsoever. They'}, {'start': '91.840', 'end': '97.520', 'text': 'merely cowtow to the dictator in charge.'}, {'start': '95.360', 'end': '99.600', 'text': 'Others are very democratic. Some'}, {'start': '97.520', 'end': '102.000', 'text': 'parliaments are not necessarily country'}, {'start': '99.600', 'end': '103.759', 'text': 'specific already. Uh the European'}, {'start': '102.000', 'end': '106.640', 'text': 'Parliament is the classic example in'}, {'start': '103.759', 'end': '109.920', 'text': 'this case where members of the European'}, {'start': '106.640', 'end': '112.720', 'text': 'uh Union come together and vote on uh'}, {'start': '109.920', 'end': '115.439', 'text': "important cross European issues. That's"}, {'start': '112.720', 'end': '117.520', 'text': 'a democratically elected parliament. Um'}, {'start': '115.439', 'end': '119.360', 'text': 'and we can talk in detail about that.'}, {'start': '117.520', 'end': '122.640', 'text': 'But today we have with us a very special'}, {'start': '119.360', 'end': '125.600', 'text': 'guest um Torbjorn'}, {'start': '122.640', 'end': '128.239', 'text': 'uh Tensio from Sweden who has written'}, {'start': '125.600', 'end': '130.879', 'text': 'extensively on the question of world'}, {'start': '128.239', 'end': '132.800', 'text': 'parliaments uh over many decades. Um'}, {'start': '130.879', 'end': '136.800', 'text': "he's a philosopher and a great thinker"}, {'start': '132.800', 'end': '140.000', 'text': 'and a great writer. And so Torbjorn,'}, {'start': '136.800', 'end': '142.160', 'text': 'welcome to Democracy Tomorrow. And let'}, {'start': '140.000', 'end': '143.760', 'text': 'me just ask the first question of the'}, {'start': '142.160', 'end': '145.599', 'text': 'day.'}, {'start': '143.760', 'end': '148.319', 'text': 'Is it really realistic that we can'}, {'start': '145.599', 'end': '151.920', 'text': 'imagine a world that is governed'}, {'start': '148.319', 'end': '154.879', 'text': 'entirely by a world parliament?'}, {'start': '151.920', 'end': '158.080', 'text': 'I think so. But I have changed my mind'}, {'start': '154.879', 'end': '160.400', 'text': 'about how it would come about and and uh'}, {'start': '158.080', 'end': '164.640', 'text': 'the the general idea is that we need a'}, {'start': '160.400', 'end': '167.360', 'text': 'world state uh to sort out uh various'}, {'start': '164.640', 'end': '169.599', 'text': 'global problems and to obiate uh'}, {'start': '167.360', 'end': '171.840', 'text': 'existential threats, global existential'}, {'start': '169.599', 'end': '174.400', 'text': "threats. So it's really a world state"}, {'start': '171.840', 'end': '176.800', 'text': 'that we need and of course we want it to'}, {'start': '174.400', 'end': '180.560', 'text': 'be democratically ruled in some way and'}, {'start': '176.800', 'end': '184.120', 'text': 'and then a world parliament is I think'}, {'start': '180.560', 'end': '186.040', 'text': 'the natural idea of accomplishing global'}, {'start': '184.120', 'end': '189.519', 'text': 'democracy'}, {'start': '186.040', 'end': '192.159', 'text': 'global government elected in a way. I'}, {'start': '189.519', 'end': '195.200', 'text': "mean here's one crucial question about"}, {'start': '192.159', 'end': '196.959', 'text': 'the role of of uh the uh the the'}, {'start': '195.200', 'end': '199.680', 'text': 'government and should there be a'}, {'start': '196.959', 'end': '202.480', 'text': 'president for example for the for the'}, {'start': '199.680', 'end': '206.159', 'text': "world that's a scaring idea I think so"}, {'start': '202.480', 'end': '209.360', 'text': "so it's also important to to go into"}, {'start': '206.159', 'end': '211.280', 'text': 'what kind of democracy could be realized'}, {'start': '209.360', 'end': '214.239', 'text': 'through a world parliament in a world'}, {'start': '211.280', 'end': '217.400', 'text': 'state earlier I thought that we should'}, {'start': '214.239', 'end': '221.680', 'text': 'in a peacemeal way approach this global'}, {'start': '217.400', 'end': '221.680', 'text': 'democracy by establishing a'}, {'start': '222.200', 'end': '227.840', 'text': 'global some sort of parliament even'}, {'start': '225.599', 'end': '230.480', 'text': 'though it had not very much power to'}, {'start': '227.840', 'end': '233.480', 'text': 'start with and eventually we would end'}, {'start': '230.480', 'end': '236.400', 'text': "up with a global democracy. Now I'm more"}, {'start': '233.480', 'end': '238.720', 'text': 'pessimistic. I think we first had to'}, {'start': '236.400', 'end': '240.959', 'text': 'have this global state and then we could'}, {'start': '238.720', 'end': '243.360', 'text': 'democratize it in a manner we have done'}, {'start': '240.959', 'end': '246.760', 'text': 'with those democracies that exist in the'}, {'start': '243.360', 'end': '249.920', 'text': 'world. None of these democracies have'}, {'start': '246.760', 'end': '252.640', 'text': 'originated in a democratic Christian'}, {'start': '249.920', 'end': '256.160', 'text': 'form but but but they have eventually'}, {'start': '252.640', 'end': '258.799', 'text': 'become democratic in rare places on the'}, {'start': '256.160', 'end': '261.519', 'text': 'earth just now 12% of the world'}, {'start': '258.799', 'end': '265.199', 'text': 'population live in well functioning'}, {'start': '261.519', 'end': '267.440', 'text': 'liberal democracy today only 12%. So how'}, {'start': '265.199', 'end': '269.040', 'text': 'would we reach the idea of a global'}, {'start': '267.440', 'end': '272.080', 'text': 'state first and foremost in a world'}, {'start': '269.040', 'end': '274.639', 'text': 'where only 12% of nation states today'}, {'start': '272.080', 'end': '276.960', 'text': 'are truly and fundamentally democratic'}, {'start': '274.639', 'end': '278.880', 'text': 'and and and also in a world of course'}, {'start': '276.960', 'end': '280.520', 'text': 'which seems to be going very much in the'}, {'start': '278.880', 'end': '282.400', 'text': 'opposite direction towards'}, {'start': '280.520', 'end': '284.720', 'text': 'authoritarianism, despatism,'}, {'start': '282.400', 'end': '287.040', 'text': 'nationalism, all of the things that were'}, {'start': '284.720', 'end': '288.320', 'text': 'meant to be eradicated by the UN charter'}, {'start': '287.040', 'end': '291.600', 'text': 'in the end of the Second World War. How'}, {'start': '288.320', 'end': '294.639', 'text': 'do we do it? I have no idea. I must'}, {'start': '291.600', 'end': '297.280', 'text': 'confess I I only have hopes here that'}, {'start': '294.639', 'end': '300.000', 'text': 'that somehow I I think the global'}, {'start': '297.280', 'end': '302.960', 'text': 'heating the the environmental crisis'}, {'start': '300.000', 'end': '306.400', 'text': 'especially in that it develops uh on the'}, {'start': '302.960', 'end': '308.160', 'text': 'time scale so it will become evident it'}, {'start': '306.400', 'end': '310.880', 'text': 'is perhaps already evident it will'}, {'start': '308.160', 'end': '314.000', 'text': 'become evident someday that that unless'}, {'start': '310.880', 'end': '316.080', 'text': 'we take action together and we can only'}, {'start': '314.000', 'end': '319.039', 'text': 'solve the problem by taking action'}, {'start': '316.080', 'end': '323.680', 'text': 'together on a global scale. Uh when we'}, {'start': '319.039', 'end': '328.160', 'text': 'realize this somehow some clever people,'}, {'start': '323.680', 'end': '331.759', 'text': 'enlightened people will assume the pos'}, {'start': '328.160', 'end': '334.720', 'text': 'will find a way of of of establishing'}, {'start': '331.759', 'end': '337.759', 'text': 'some sort of I think then then'}, {'start': '334.720', 'end': '341.280', 'text': 'enlightened desperatism in the world and'}, {'start': '337.759', 'end': '344.080', 'text': 'and then from then on we will start the'}, {'start': '341.280', 'end': '346.479', 'text': 'project of democratizing this world. But'}, {'start': '344.080', 'end': '349.199', 'text': 'but of course this might not happen and'}, {'start': '346.479', 'end': '352.080', 'text': 'then we will I think go under together.'}, {'start': '349.199', 'end': '355.120', 'text': 'So so the stakes are extremely high here'}, {'start': '352.080', 'end': '357.280', 'text': 'and you kind of have high hopes but but'}, {'start': '355.120', 'end': '360.000', 'text': 'still be rather pessimistic about the'}, {'start': '357.280', 'end': '361.520', 'text': 'outcome. So your your initial views when'}, {'start': '360.000', 'end': '364.880', 'text': 'you started working on this issue were'}, {'start': '361.520', 'end': '366.880', 'text': 'that it would be the a long slow but but'}, {'start': '364.880', 'end': '368.960', 'text': 'endlessly evolutionary process that'}, {'start': '366.880', 'end': '371.919', 'text': 'would ultimately end up in an ideal'}, {'start': '368.960', 'end': '373.919', 'text': 'state which was governed by an ideal'}, {'start': '371.919', 'end': '376.160', 'text': 'world parliament in which the entire'}, {'start': '373.919', 'end': '379.280', 'text': "world participated. But now you've"}, {'start': '376.160', 'end': '381.520', 'text': 'changed it a little bit to be because of'}, {'start': '379.280', 'end': '383.919', 'text': 'your pessimism essentially and you think'}, {'start': '381.520', 'end': '386.880', 'text': 'we have to get there much more quickly'}, {'start': '383.919', 'end': '390.080', 'text': 'or else we are all doomed. Is that'}, {'start': '386.880', 'end': '392.160', 'text': 'correct? Yeah, I still I still think and'}, {'start': '390.080', 'end': '394.720', 'text': 'that is controversial as well that that'}, {'start': '392.160', 'end': '397.840', 'text': 'it is desirable in its own right to have'}, {'start': '394.720', 'end': '400.560', 'text': 'this kind of of global democracy. I mean'}, {'start': '397.840', 'end': '402.960', 'text': 'important philosophers like Emanuel Kant'}, {'start': '400.560', 'end': '405.039', 'text': 'and John RS and then Thomas Pog and'}, {'start': '402.960', 'end': '407.360', 'text': 'others have argued against this the'}, {'start': '405.039', 'end': '410.240', 'text': 'desiraability of having this kind of'}, {'start': '407.360', 'end': '413.120', 'text': "role. I think it's necessary to save us"}, {'start': '410.240', 'end': '417.319', 'text': 'from from disaster. I also think that it'}, {'start': '413.120', 'end': '420.479', 'text': 'is desirable still. But but but but'}, {'start': '417.319', 'end': '425.120', 'text': 'um and something that is worth fighting'}, {'start': '420.479', 'end': '428.520', 'text': 'for and of course it might sound scary'}, {'start': '425.120', 'end': '431.919', 'text': 'to be in a even in an enlightened'}, {'start': '428.520', 'end': '434.440', 'text': 'despotic world order. But but then again'}, {'start': '431.919', 'end': '436.560', 'text': 'remember that only 12% today live in'}, {'start': '434.440', 'end': '439.599', 'text': 'democracies and hopefully those'}, {'start': '436.560', 'end': '443.199', 'text': 'democracies can be be kept also in in'}, {'start': '439.599', 'end': '445.440', 'text': 'another order world order where where'}, {'start': '443.199', 'end': '446.440', 'text': 'they are robbed of sovereignty of course'}, {'start': '445.440', 'end': '449.759', 'text': 'but could'}, {'start': '446.440', 'end': '452.720', 'text': 'rule on the level that where they are'}, {'start': '449.759', 'end': '454.240', 'text': 'allowed to have a final say.'}, {'start': '452.720', 'end': '455.759', 'text': "I mean, you know, it's good that you"}, {'start': '454.240', 'end': '458.000', 'text': 'raised the issue of sovereignty because'}, {'start': '455.759', 'end': '460.000', 'text': "of course that's the main argument"}, {'start': '458.000', 'end': '463.039', 'text': 'against the idea of having a more'}, {'start': '460.000', 'end': '464.639', 'text': 'unified uh global governance system and'}, {'start': '463.039', 'end': '466.400', 'text': "everyone's afraid of losing their"}, {'start': '464.639', 'end': '469.440', 'text': 'sovereign sovereignty simply because'}, {'start': '466.400', 'end': '472.080', 'text': "they've experienced uh you know uh"}, {'start': '469.440', 'end': '475.039', 'text': 'attacks and invasions and and horrible'}, {'start': '472.080', 'end': '476.800', 'text': 'treatment by others that they see um'}, {'start': '475.039', 'end': '478.639', 'text': 'throughout history. And so you know'}, {'start': '476.800', 'end': '481.120', 'text': "that's an understandable point of view."}, {'start': '478.639', 'end': '484.319', 'text': 'But if we look at the current situation'}, {'start': '481.120', 'end': '487.759', 'text': 'in the world, 88% of the planet, which'}, {'start': '484.319', 'end': '490.879', 'text': 'is about 7 billion people or so, quite'}, {'start': '487.759', 'end': '493.440', 'text': 'literally today in April 2025, do not'}, {'start': '490.879', 'end': '495.280', 'text': 'have democratic rights to determine who'}, {'start': '493.440', 'end': '497.680', 'text': 'governs them, who sets the laws, who'}, {'start': '495.280', 'end': '499.520', 'text': 'sets the policies. And to me that would'}, {'start': '497.680', 'end': '501.840', 'text': 'be one of the strongest arguments in'}, {'start': '499.520', 'end': '503.720', 'text': 'favor of a global parliament is that'}, {'start': '501.840', 'end': '506.160', 'text': "it's a pathway by which we can"}, {'start': '503.720', 'end': '508.639', 'text': 'facilitate the democratic participation'}, {'start': '506.160', 'end': '510.879', 'text': 'of those who are not only unable to do'}, {'start': '508.639', 'end': '513.680', 'text': 'so but particularly those that are'}, {'start': '510.879', 'end': '515.279', 'text': 'living under the power of despots and'}, {'start': '513.680', 'end': '518.719', 'text': 'dictators and authoritarians and'}, {'start': '515.279', 'end': '521.839', 'text': 'autocrats who who now have virtually no'}, {'start': '518.719', 'end': '524.080', 'text': 'pathways to exercise their um political'}, {'start': '521.839', 'end': '527.040', 'text': 'will. combined with the fact of course'}, {'start': '524.080', 'end': '530.720', 'text': 'as you alluded to that we simply cannot'}, {'start': '527.040', 'end': '533.839', 'text': 'solve countless problems as 193'}, {'start': '530.720', 'end': '535.760', 'text': 'individual nation states. Um how can you'}, {'start': '533.839', 'end': '537.519', 'text': 'possibly solve climate change unless we'}, {'start': '535.760', 'end': '539.360', 'text': 'collaborate all together? How can you'}, {'start': '537.519', 'end': '541.760', 'text': 'solve disarmament? How can you solve'}, {'start': '539.360', 'end': '544.399', 'text': 'deforestation? How can you solve um'}, {'start': '541.760', 'end': '546.800', 'text': 'saving the oceans? How can you solve? So'}, {'start': '544.399', 'end': '549.600', 'text': 'many issues are simply impossible that'}, {'start': '546.800', 'end': '552.399', 'text': 'affect everyone everywhere somehow. Um'}, {'start': '549.600', 'end': '554.720', 'text': 'they must be satisfi must be you know'}, {'start': '552.399', 'end': '557.600', 'text': 'addressed at a global comprehensive'}, {'start': '554.720', 'end': '560.480', 'text': 'level. And you know yes we have made'}, {'start': '557.600', 'end': '563.200', 'text': "political progress over time and we've"}, {'start': '560.480', 'end': '565.600', 'text': 'you know added human rights to the'}, {'start': '563.200', 'end': '567.519', 'text': "lexicon of international law and we've"}, {'start': '565.600', 'end': '569.600', 'text': 'done all these positive things since the'}, {'start': '567.519', 'end': '572.880', 'text': "end of the Second World War. But we're"}, {'start': '569.600', 'end': '574.839', 'text': 'still light years away from truly having'}, {'start': '572.880', 'end': '577.279', 'text': 'a a global parliament.'}, {'start': '574.839', 'end': '578.640', 'text': 'And you know, your answer before was'}, {'start': '577.279', 'end': '581.600', 'text': "probably totally correct. I don't know"}, {'start': '578.640', 'end': '583.920', 'text': "how to do it. I don't know either. But"}, {'start': '581.600', 'end': '586.640', 'text': 'um I certainly know and I certainly'}, {'start': '583.920', 'end': '589.000', 'text': 'believe having traveled you know far'}, {'start': '586.640', 'end': '591.519', 'text': 'very far and wide for a very long time'}, {'start': '589.000', 'end': '593.839', 'text': 'everywhere that the the number of people'}, {'start': '591.519', 'end': '595.600', 'text': 'that I think would support the idea or'}, {'start': '593.839', 'end': '597.839', 'text': 'the proposal of a world parliament'}, {'start': '595.600', 'end': '600.399', 'text': 'because of what it could do to their'}, {'start': '597.839', 'end': '603.040', 'text': 'individual lives is infinitely larger'}, {'start': '600.399', 'end': '605.279', 'text': 'than most people realize. Um, you know,'}, {'start': '603.040', 'end': '607.519', 'text': 'the people that argue the strongest in'}, {'start': '605.279', 'end': '610.399', 'text': 'favor of sovereignty tend to be the ones'}, {'start': '607.519', 'end': '612.320', 'text': 'that that abuse that status and see'}, {'start': '610.399', 'end': '615.279', 'text': 'sovereignty and use sovereignty as a'}, {'start': '612.320', 'end': '617.200', 'text': 'wall against which to shield criticism'}, {'start': '615.279', 'end': '619.519', 'text': 'for their abhorrent behavior against'}, {'start': '617.200', 'end': '621.920', 'text': "their very own citizens. That's for the"}, {'start': '619.519', 'end': '624.880', 'text': 'most part how sovereignty is'}, {'start': '621.920', 'end': '627.519', 'text': 'unfortunately bastardized as a concept.'}, {'start': '624.880', 'end': '630.320', 'text': 'So, you know, I I think we need to throw'}, {'start': '627.519', 'end': '632.399', 'text': 'out there ideas that can make the idea'}, {'start': '630.320', 'end': '634.320', 'text': 'of a world parliament more and more'}, {'start': '632.399', 'end': '637.279', 'text': 'realistic. And maybe something I mean,'}, {'start': '634.320', 'end': '639.360', 'text': "I'll just throw one idea out here now is"}, {'start': '637.279', 'end': '642.440', 'text': 'that I, you know, I believe if people'}, {'start': '639.360', 'end': '644.880', 'text': 'had the possibility to express their'}, {'start': '642.440', 'end': '647.200', 'text': 'wish, do you want to live in a world'}, {'start': '644.880', 'end': '649.120', 'text': 'governed by international law that was'}, {'start': '647.200', 'end': '651.120', 'text': 'the same where you were treated equal to'}, {'start': '649.120', 'end': '652.760', 'text': 'everyone else on the planet? Most people'}, {'start': '651.120', 'end': '655.519', 'text': 'would go for that.'}, {'start': '652.760', 'end': '658.399', 'text': 'And how do we get there? Well, maybe we'}, {'start': '655.519', 'end': '659.839', 'text': "get there by we can't just get rid of"}, {'start': '658.399', 'end': '662.399', 'text': 'nation states overnight, and that would'}, {'start': '659.839', 'end': '664.560', 'text': 'be a foolish enterprise to try to do.'}, {'start': '662.399', 'end': '666.399', 'text': 'But we need to do it in some slow,'}, {'start': '664.560', 'end': '669.519', 'text': 'gradual, peaceful, above all else,'}, {'start': '666.399', 'end': '672.160', 'text': 'non-violent manner. Perhaps a loose'}, {'start': '669.519', 'end': '675.279', 'text': 'alliance of pre-existing nation states'}, {'start': '672.160', 'end': '677.519', 'text': 'that agreed to adhere to some new'}, {'start': '675.279', 'end': '679.360', 'text': 'international legal framework that was'}, {'start': '677.519', 'end': '681.760', 'text': 'governed by ultimately a world'}, {'start': '679.360', 'end': '683.120', 'text': 'parliament comprised of international'}, {'start': '681.760', 'end': '685.200', 'text': 'ministries instead of national'}, {'start': '683.120', 'end': '686.720', 'text': 'ministries and international civil'}, {'start': '685.200', 'end': '688.800', 'text': 'servants instead of national civil'}, {'start': '686.720', 'end': '690.720', 'text': 'servants and voting rights for the'}, {'start': '688.800', 'end': '693.200', 'text': 'entire world, not just the citizens of a'}, {'start': '690.720', 'end': '695.519', 'text': 'nation state. And and over time,'}, {'start': '693.200', 'end': '697.440', 'text': "probably very quickly, you'd have a a"}, {'start': '695.519', 'end': '700.000', 'text': 'very large number of nation states that'}, {'start': '697.440', 'end': '703.279', 'text': 'adhered to that that grouping. And that'}, {'start': '700.000', 'end': '705.279', 'text': 'grouping could then form what beca what'}, {'start': '703.279', 'end': '707.200', 'text': 'ultimately would become an international'}, {'start': '705.279', 'end': '710.240', 'text': 'world parliament because it would be'}, {'start': '707.200', 'end': '712.160', 'text': 'hopefully more successful than any'}, {'start': '710.240', 'end': '715.279', 'text': 'national parliament could ever be. So'}, {'start': '712.160', 'end': '717.079', 'text': "that's one possible perhaps. That's one"}, {'start': '715.279', 'end': '720.640', 'text': 'possible.'}, {'start': '717.079', 'end': '721.720', 'text': 'Yeah. What do you see as possible?'}, {'start': '720.640', 'end': '724.240', 'text': 'I'}, {'start': '721.720', 'end': '727.440', 'text': 'mean both less ambitious and more'}, {'start': '724.240', 'end': '730.560', 'text': 'ambitious is I mean that we have an'}, {'start': '727.440', 'end': '732.480', 'text': 'initiative today to have a parliamentary'}, {'start': '730.560', 'end': '735.880', 'text': 'assembly established within the UN'}, {'start': '732.480', 'end': '738.959', 'text': 'structure and that sounds'}, {'start': '735.880', 'end': '741.920', 'text': "quite doable in a way I mean it doesn't"}, {'start': '738.959', 'end': '745.279', 'text': 'mean any change of of power of'}, {'start': '741.920', 'end': '747.600', 'text': 'importance it only means that that um it'}, {'start': '745.279', 'end': '749.760', 'text': 'is somehow established to start with and'}, {'start': '747.600', 'end': '753.519', 'text': 'and then the idea behind that initiative'}, {'start': '749.760', 'end': '756.040', 'text': 'of of course is to have it uh eventually'}, {'start': '753.519', 'end': '759.120', 'text': 'uh elected by the world'}, {'start': '756.040', 'end': '761.760', 'text': 'population, not not representing nation'}, {'start': '759.120', 'end': '764.160', 'text': 'states, but but really representing the'}, {'start': '761.760', 'end': '766.399', 'text': 'world population. And so that that I'}, {'start': '764.160', 'end': '768.720', 'text': 'think would be nice to start with'}, {'start': '766.399', 'end': '772.399', 'text': 'regardless of whether we would be able'}, {'start': '768.720', 'end': '774.560', 'text': 'to uh to take the route you advise us to'}, {'start': '772.399', 'end': '777.279', 'text': 'take or whether it would have to be a'}, {'start': '774.560', 'end': '779.760', 'text': 'more revolutionary manner that I set my'}, {'start': '777.279', 'end': '782.480', 'text': 'hope in. But it might also be'}, {'start': '779.760', 'end': '786.320', 'text': 'interesting already to to speculate'}, {'start': '782.480', 'end': '789.279', 'text': 'about what kind of democracy would suit'}, {'start': '786.320', 'end': '791.920', 'text': 'the global order. I mean we now are'}, {'start': '789.279', 'end': '794.160', 'text': 'faced with rad to simplify with two'}, {'start': '791.920', 'end': '797.440', 'text': 'radically different ideas about'}, {'start': '794.160', 'end': '800.279', 'text': 'democracy. You have this American one to'}, {'start': '797.440', 'end': '802.040', 'text': 'simplify where you the people elects a'}, {'start': '800.279', 'end': '805.040', 'text': 'president'}, {'start': '802.040', 'end': '808.240', 'text': 'democratically. The president is the the'}, {'start': '805.040', 'end': '810.240', 'text': 'majority can have its will and apart'}, {'start': '808.240', 'end': '813.040', 'text': 'from some details in the system but'}, {'start': '810.240', 'end': '816.160', 'text': 'roughly speaking the majority could'}, {'start': '813.040', 'end': '818.639', 'text': 'elect its president or you have this'}, {'start': '816.160', 'end': '819.959', 'text': 'European and Australian parliamentary'}, {'start': '818.639', 'end': '824.600', 'text': 'system with'}, {'start': '819.959', 'end': '827.200', 'text': 'with representative um proportionate'}, {'start': '824.600', 'end': '830.560', 'text': 'representative parliaments which are not'}, {'start': '827.200', 'end': '833.600', 'text': 'elected democratically. I mean it it'}, {'start': '830.560', 'end': '835.760', 'text': 'serves a democratic purpose but but even'}, {'start': '833.600', 'end': '838.120', 'text': 'candidates that that are disliked by a'}, {'start': '835.760', 'end': '840.959', 'text': 'majority can gain seats in the'}, {'start': '838.120', 'end': '844.000', 'text': 'parliament and that I think is an and'}, {'start': '840.959', 'end': '846.639', 'text': 'then the the the the metaphor that the'}, {'start': '844.000', 'end': '848.480', 'text': 'people rules itself through its'}, {'start': '846.639', 'end': '852.880', 'text': 'parliament and legislates for itself'}, {'start': '848.480', 'end': '855.839', 'text': 'through its parliament makes sense.'}, {'start': '852.880', 'end': '859.120', 'text': 'Advocates of the other model, the pop,'}, {'start': '855.839', 'end': '861.600', 'text': 'the the more elitist model, Joseph'}, {'start': '859.120', 'end': '863.360', 'text': 'Schumpeter and others have argued that'}, {'start': '861.600', 'end': '864.880', 'text': 'it makes no sense to speak of the will'}, {'start': '863.360', 'end': '867.760', 'text': 'of the people and so forth. But I think'}, {'start': '864.880', 'end': '870.480', 'text': 'it does and this is a valuable metaphor.'}, {'start': '867.760', 'end': '872.639', 'text': 'And so here we have simple choice'}, {'start': '870.480', 'end': '875.120', 'text': 'between roughly two systems. The'}, {'start': '872.639', 'end': '876.639', 'text': 'American one with the president of the'}, {'start': '875.120', 'end': '879.120', 'text': 'world'}, {'start': '876.639', 'end': '883.680', 'text': 'uh which sounds I think scary. And then'}, {'start': '879.120', 'end': '888.360', 'text': 'you have need all sorts of of security'}, {'start': '883.680', 'end': '892.040', 'text': 'measures. Some some that division of of'}, {'start': '888.360', 'end': '895.680', 'text': 'of power and and'}, {'start': '892.040', 'end': '899.600', 'text': 'um hurdles of all sorts that should keep'}, {'start': '895.680', 'end': '902.079', 'text': 'this uh um this present and innocuous.'}, {'start': '899.600', 'end': '904.800', 'text': "But we know that it doesn't work often."}, {'start': '902.079', 'end': '907.040', 'text': 'We fear that it will not work in the US'}, {'start': '904.800', 'end': '909.560', 'text': "today. we have seen that it didn't work"}, {'start': '907.040', 'end': '912.320', 'text': 'in South America where the system was'}, {'start': '909.560', 'end': '914.320', 'text': 'important. So I I think that is one'}, {'start': '912.320', 'end': '916.560', 'text': 'important thing to keep in mind that the'}, {'start': '914.320', 'end': '919.600', 'text': 'kind of democracy we should advocate'}, {'start': '916.560', 'end': '924.320', 'text': 'should be the the indirect one the'}, {'start': '919.600', 'end': '926.480', 'text': 'proportionate one where two of the main'}, {'start': '924.320', 'end': '929.680', 'text': 'arguments against democracy are taken'}, {'start': '926.480', 'end': '931.440', 'text': 'care of. One from Plato the elitist one'}, {'start': '929.680', 'end': '934.079', 'text': "that ordinary people can't rule"}, {'start': '931.440', 'end': '936.240', 'text': "themselves. No, we can't. We don't want"}, {'start': '934.079', 'end': '938.639', 'text': "to we don't we don't want to spend so"}, {'start': '936.240', 'end': '940.880', 'text': 'much time on this. So, but but then our'}, {'start': '938.639', 'end': '944.800', 'text': 'representatives rule for us. And the'}, {'start': '940.880', 'end': '948.040', 'text': 'other one that the m majority might come'}, {'start': '944.800', 'end': '950.800', 'text': 'to to suppress minorities. The'}, {'start': '948.040', 'end': '953.199', 'text': 'aristotilian objection to democracy has'}, {'start': '950.800', 'end': '956.120', 'text': 'the best kind of answer that you could'}, {'start': '953.199', 'end': '957.639', 'text': 'find in this'}, {'start': '956.120', 'end': '960.880', 'text': 'this'}, {'start': '957.639', 'end': '963.120', 'text': 'marvelous institution where people who'}, {'start': '960.880', 'end': '965.120', 'text': 'are disliked by a majority can gain'}, {'start': '963.120', 'end': '968.160', 'text': 'seats and advocate for their their sake'}, {'start': '965.120', 'end': '970.880', 'text': 'in the parliament. So I I think um when'}, {'start': '968.160', 'end': '973.600', 'text': 'we advocate global democracy, it should'}, {'start': '970.880', 'end': '976.000', 'text': 'be in this European, Scandinavian,'}, {'start': '973.600', 'end': '979.000', 'text': 'Australian form with with with'}, {'start': '976.000', 'end': '981.360', 'text': 'proportionate representation, indirect'}, {'start': '979.000', 'end': '984.639', 'text': "representation where where it's possible"}, {'start': '981.360', 'end': '987.240', 'text': 'to to get rid of of of the prime'}, {'start': '984.639', 'end': '990.600', 'text': 'minister at any time when when the'}, {'start': '987.240', 'end': '994.160', 'text': 'parliament has is fed up with him and'}, {'start': '990.600', 'end': '997.079', 'text': 'her and it is dangerous. The very idea'}, {'start': '994.160', 'end': '1000.079', 'text': 'is scary of having a world'}, {'start': '997.079', 'end': '1002.480', 'text': 'president who could also be our emperor'}, {'start': '1000.079', 'end': '1005.240', 'text': 'eventually and and such a system could'}, {'start': '1002.480', 'end': '1007.240', 'text': 'really easily um'}, {'start': '1005.240', 'end': '1012.880', 'text': 'become as'}, {'start': '1007.240', 'end': '1015.199', 'text': "can't fear a soulless despotism you sink"}, {'start': '1012.880', 'end': '1017.360', 'text': 'back into soulless despotism even if you'}, {'start': '1015.199', 'end': '1019.759', 'text': 'have established global democracy I'}, {'start': '1017.360', 'end': '1022.079', 'text': 'think the best idea here is to advocate'}, {'start': '1019.759', 'end': '1025.799', 'text': 'I have called this populist idea of'}, {'start': '1022.079', 'end': '1028.400', 'text': 'democracy But that is perhaps a bit'}, {'start': '1025.799', 'end': '1030.319', 'text': 'misleading. But but it is exactly this'}, {'start': '1028.400', 'end': '1034.720', 'text': 'representative indirect representative'}, {'start': '1030.319', 'end': '1036.720', 'text': 'system granting seats to dislike uh'}, {'start': '1034.720', 'end': '1039.039', 'text': 'minorities.'}, {'start': '1036.720', 'end': '1041.199', 'text': 'Absolutely. And so if if there was a'}, {'start': '1039.039', 'end': '1043.520', 'text': 'world parliament just to um you know'}, {'start': '1041.199', 'end': '1046.079', 'text': 'explain it as graphically as we can to'}, {'start': '1043.520', 'end': '1048.640', 'text': 'people um I mean it would have to have a'}, {'start': '1046.079', 'end': '1051.120', 'text': 'certain number of representatives right'}, {'start': '1048.640', 'end': '1053.520', 'text': 'and so I mean one could imagine any'}, {'start': '1051.120', 'end': '1055.600', 'text': 'possible number of scenarios I mean you'}, {'start': '1053.520', 'end': '1058.240', 'text': 'know whatever the US Congress has you'}, {'start': '1055.600', 'end': '1060.960', 'text': 'know 435 plus 100 senators and you know'}, {'start': '1058.240', 'end': '1063.039', 'text': "Australia has 150 and I don't remember"}, {'start': '1060.960', 'end': '1064.799', 'text': 'how many Sweden has but about a hundred'}, {'start': '1063.039', 'end': '1066.799', 'text': 'I guess. How many members of parliament'}, {'start': '1064.799', 'end': '1068.559', 'text': 'do you have? 349.'}, {'start': '1066.799', 'end': '1070.720', 'text': "Oh, 349. Oh, yeah. That's right. That's"}, {'start': '1068.559', 'end': '1073.360', 'text': "right. Yeah. Um, so, you know, it's it's"}, {'start': '1070.720', 'end': '1075.039', 'text': 'usually in the hundreds. Um, but how,'}, {'start': '1073.360', 'end': '1077.120', 'text': 'you know, that would be difficult to do'}, {'start': '1075.039', 'end': '1078.880', 'text': 'with a world parliament because, you'}, {'start': '1077.120', 'end': '1081.120', 'text': 'know, each one of those representatives'}, {'start': '1078.880', 'end': '1084.000', 'text': 'would ultimately have to represent, you'}, {'start': '1081.120', 'end': '1085.520', 'text': 'know, tens of millions of people. So, we'}, {'start': '1084.000', 'end': '1088.559', 'text': 'were toying around with the idea the'}, {'start': '1085.520', 'end': '1090.720', 'text': 'other day of of an 8,000 person um'}, {'start': '1088.559', 'end': '1092.640', 'text': 'global parliament. And basically each'}, {'start': '1090.720', 'end': '1094.160', 'text': 'representative would have responsibility'}, {'start': '1092.640', 'end': '1096.640', 'text': 'for representing the interests of 1'}, {'start': '1094.160', 'end': '1099.600', 'text': 'million people, right? So 1 million'}, {'start': '1096.640', 'end': '1101.760', 'text': 'times 8,000 equals the 8 billion that we'}, {'start': '1099.600', 'end': '1104.360', 'text': "have today. So that's that's one"}, {'start': '1101.760', 'end': '1106.480', 'text': "possible scenario. It's clear. It's easy"}, {'start': '1104.360', 'end': '1109.600', 'text': 'understanding breaking. I resent this'}, {'start': '1106.480', 'end': '1112.480', 'text': 'idea of representing a number of people.'}, {'start': '1109.600', 'end': '1113.760', 'text': 'Okay. I think the very idea of this kind'}, {'start': '1112.480', 'end': '1116.720', 'text': 'of parliament is that you have'}, {'start': '1113.760', 'end': '1119.600', 'text': 'representatives of ideas of political'}, {'start': '1116.720', 'end': '1123.120', 'text': 'ideas that you have world parties and so'}, {'start': '1119.600', 'end': '1126.559', 'text': "and then it isn't such a big deal that"}, {'start': '1123.120', 'end': '1129.600', 'text': 'well if you have thousand in the then'}, {'start': '1126.559', 'end': '1132.960', 'text': 'you could think just one from Sweden um'}, {'start': '1129.600', 'end': '1135.360', 'text': 'and many countries none but but they are'}, {'start': '1132.960', 'end': '1137.440', 'text': 'not representatives of nations they are'}, {'start': '1135.360', 'end': '1139.679', 'text': 'not representatives even of groups of'}, {'start': '1137.440', 'end': '1142.559', 'text': 'people they should be representatives of'}, {'start': '1139.679', 'end': '1145.840', 'text': 'ideas uh that gain support all over the'}, {'start': '1142.559', 'end': '1149.200', 'text': 'globe. So what is presupposed here is a'}, {'start': '1145.840', 'end': '1151.760', 'text': 'global political culture and and uh'}, {'start': '1149.200', 'end': '1154.039', 'text': 'discussion a global parties really'}, {'start': '1151.760', 'end': '1157.120', 'text': "otherwise it won't work I think and but"}, {'start': '1154.039', 'end': '1159.919', 'text': "then this isn't such a big deal I mean"}, {'start': '1157.120', 'end': '1162.720', 'text': 'then most of them will come from Asia'}, {'start': '1159.919', 'end': '1165.760', 'text': 'they think yeah but they will represent'}, {'start': '1162.720', 'end': '1168.799', 'text': 'ideas that I can vote for or against as'}, {'start': '1165.760', 'end': '1170.640', 'text': 'a swed right right and I mean when you'}, {'start': '1168.799', 'end': '1173.600', 'text': 'look at the de facto reality of the'}, {'start': '1170.640', 'end': '1177.039', 'text': "world I mean 70 plus% % of the planet's"}, {'start': '1173.600', 'end': '1179.480', 'text': 'population today is effectively poor. Uh'}, {'start': '1177.039', 'end': '1182.320', 'text': 'you know, one one paycheck away from'}, {'start': '1179.480', 'end': '1184.640', 'text': 'oblivion. Um and you know, another huge'}, {'start': '1182.320', 'end': '1187.600', 'text': 'proportion of the planet is in involved'}, {'start': '1184.640', 'end': '1190.080', 'text': 'in a war right now in an armed conflict.'}, {'start': '1187.600', 'end': '1192.320', 'text': 'Um everyone, all 8 billion of us are'}, {'start': '1190.080', 'end': '1193.840', 'text': 'affected by climate change already in'}, {'start': '1192.320', 'end': '1196.799', 'text': "one way or another. It's just a matter"}, {'start': '1193.840', 'end': '1199.200', 'text': 'of scale, degree, and timing. So you'}, {'start': '1196.799', 'end': '1202.000', 'text': 'know we have not created you know the'}, {'start': '1199.200', 'end': '1204.880', 'text': 'paradise on earth that we could um had'}, {'start': '1202.000', 'end': '1208.080', 'text': 'we different political methodologies and'}, {'start': '1204.880', 'end': '1211.280', 'text': 'ideologies that were um in place. But'}, {'start': '1208.080', 'end': '1212.640', 'text': 'how do we um you know I think part of'}, {'start': '1211.280', 'end': '1216.880', 'text': 'the problem of course with with'}, {'start': '1212.640', 'end': '1219.360', 'text': 'contemporary politics is the mindset of'}, {'start': '1216.880', 'end': '1222.240', 'text': 'many of the leaders of these countries'}, {'start': '1219.360', 'end': '1225.280', 'text': 'um and the particular psychology and and'}, {'start': '1222.240', 'end': '1228.000', 'text': 'pathology in fact of many because with'}, {'start': '1225.280', 'end': '1230.640', 'text': "the nation state it's almost a system"}, {'start': '1228.000', 'end': '1233.440', 'text': 'that guarantees that the most'}, {'start': '1230.640', 'end': '1235.919', 'text': 'charismatic, the most power hungry, the'}, {'start': '1233.440', 'end': '1239.240', 'text': 'most sociopathic in certain ways or or'}, {'start': '1235.919', 'end': '1242.240', 'text': 'you know um really'}, {'start': '1239.240', 'end': '1243.520', 'text': 'psychologically unstable type people are'}, {'start': '1242.240', 'end': '1247.039', 'text': 'the ones that are going to try the'}, {'start': '1243.520', 'end': '1249.760', 'text': 'hardest to make make it to the top and'}, {'start': '1247.039', 'end': '1251.679', 'text': 'get as much power as they can. Um you'}, {'start': '1249.760', 'end': '1254.240', 'text': 'know, how do we guard against not only a'}, {'start': '1251.679', 'end': '1257.120', 'text': 'global emperor scenario, which is the'}, {'start': '1254.240', 'end': '1259.280', 'text': 'worst possible scenario and one that is'}, {'start': '1257.120', 'end': '1260.880', 'text': 'is the main argument that people use'}, {'start': '1259.280', 'end': '1262.240', 'text': 'about their opposition to a world'}, {'start': '1260.880', 'end': '1264.400', 'text': "parliament. We would, you know, it's bad"}, {'start': '1262.240', 'end': '1266.080', 'text': 'enough to have an individual dictator.'}, {'start': '1264.400', 'end': '1267.919', 'text': "We don't want one dictating to"}, {'start': '1266.080', 'end': '1270.480', 'text': 'everybody. Um, and I think there are'}, {'start': '1267.919', 'end': '1272.240', 'text': 'ways of dealing with that. Presuming we'}, {'start': '1270.480', 'end': '1274.840', 'text': 'even need to have a head of state as'}, {'start': '1272.240', 'end': '1277.840', 'text': 'such. And if we do, it has to be a'}, {'start': '1274.840', 'end': '1281.120', 'text': 'multi-person rotating system like in the'}, {'start': '1277.840', 'end': '1282.960', 'text': 'European Union or in Switzerland or as'}, {'start': '1281.120', 'end': '1286.880', 'text': 'Uruguay tried and many places have done'}, {'start': '1282.960', 'end': '1288.640', 'text': 'it with a rotating and that is I mean if'}, {'start': '1286.880', 'end': '1291.799', 'text': 'you look at Sweden you can see that this'}, {'start': '1288.640', 'end': '1295.120', 'text': 'is not big deal at all. We have a king'}, {'start': '1291.799', 'end': '1298.080', 'text': 'uh who has no political power'}, {'start': '1295.120', 'end': '1299.960', 'text': 'whatsoever. So right, do we really'}, {'start': '1298.080', 'end': '1303.159', 'text': 'really need a president? Do we really'}, {'start': '1299.960', 'end': '1306.000', 'text': 'need a a representative of the states or'}, {'start': '1303.159', 'end': '1308.240', 'text': "such? I doubt that. And I think it's"}, {'start': '1306.000', 'end': '1310.400', 'text': "dangerous to to in particular it's"}, {'start': '1308.240', 'end': '1313.440', 'text': 'dangerous to to have this person elected'}, {'start': '1310.400', 'end': '1316.000', 'text': 'by people for four years or something'}, {'start': '1313.440', 'end': '1319.280', 'text': "that at the American way. It's better"}, {'start': '1316.000', 'end': '1323.919', 'text': 'that that this is just a person who has'}, {'start': '1319.280', 'end': '1327.159', 'text': "a symbolic in that case role. That's a"}, {'start': '1323.919', 'end': '1330.559', 'text': 'way of of staying clear of that kind of'}, {'start': '1327.159', 'end': '1332.400', 'text': 'of risk I think. Well, I guess you need'}, {'start': '1330.559', 'end': '1334.080', 'text': 'I mean almost every institution in the'}, {'start': '1332.400', 'end': '1336.720', 'text': 'world has some form of leadership even'}, {'start': '1334.080', 'end': '1338.480', 'text': "though I personally do don't like it."}, {'start': '1336.720', 'end': '1340.559', 'text': 'There is something about the human'}, {'start': '1338.480', 'end': '1343.039', 'text': 'condition that says there has to be'}, {'start': '1340.559', 'end': '1346.240', 'text': "somebody who's who's the final decision"}, {'start': '1343.039', 'end': '1347.760', 'text': 'maker in the event of a conflict. So how'}, {'start': '1346.240', 'end': '1349.280', 'text': 'do we get around that issue? How do we'}, {'start': '1347.760', 'end': '1351.919', 'text': 'get around that in the context of a'}, {'start': '1349.280', 'end': '1354.559', 'text': 'global governance system? That could be'}, {'start': '1351.919', 'end': '1357.200', 'text': 'a prime minister. I think an ordinary'}, {'start': '1354.559', 'end': '1358.960', 'text': 'prime minister who could be displaced at'}, {'start': '1357.200', 'end': '1360.880', 'text': 'any time.'}, {'start': '1358.960', 'end': '1363.280', 'text': 'Vote of no confidence for instance.'}, {'start': '1360.880', 'end': '1365.600', 'text': "Right. Yeah. But but you're also"}, {'start': '1363.280', 'end': '1368.400', 'text': 'alluding to this psychological fact that'}, {'start': '1365.600', 'end': '1371.679', 'text': "I I think it's bit overemphasized. I"}, {'start': '1368.400', 'end': '1373.840', 'text': 'mean why does the world look like it'}, {'start': '1371.679', 'end': '1377.840', 'text': 'does today with this fear fierce'}, {'start': '1373.840', 'end': '1381.000', 'text': 'competition between nations with this um'}, {'start': '1377.840', 'end': '1384.720', 'text': 'poor selection of leaders with with'}, {'start': '1381.000', 'end': '1386.760', 'text': 'ruthless psychopathic leaders even why'}, {'start': '1384.720', 'end': '1389.840', 'text': 'does this happen? I think it is'}, {'start': '1386.760', 'end': '1391.919', 'text': 'structured problem really. It has to do'}, {'start': '1389.840', 'end': '1394.799', 'text': 'with the very fact that we are divided'}, {'start': '1391.919', 'end': '1397.520', 'text': 'into sovereign nation states. And this'}, {'start': '1394.799', 'end': '1400.559', 'text': 'is what has been called then the tragedy'}, {'start': '1397.520', 'end': '1402.960', 'text': 'of the commons that that every leader is'}, {'start': '1400.559', 'end': '1407.679', 'text': 'supposed to to look at the best interest'}, {'start': '1402.960', 'end': '1411.280', 'text': 'of his or her constituency and and then'}, {'start': '1407.679', 'end': '1415.039', 'text': 'you end up in a in a situation where'}, {'start': '1411.280', 'end': '1417.600', 'text': 'everyone is skilled at promoting those'}, {'start': '1415.039', 'end': '1421.039', 'text': 'interests but but where where the result'}, {'start': '1417.600', 'end': '1423.120', 'text': 'for us all are devastating in in these'}, {'start': '1421.039', 'end': '1425.280', 'text': 'kinds of situations with to do with'}, {'start': '1423.120', 'end': '1428.240', 'text': 'global warming for example. that or the'}, {'start': '1425.280', 'end': '1431.200', 'text': "nuclear weapons and so we we we can't"}, {'start': '1428.240', 'end': '1434.559', 'text': 'solve those problems with when we keep'}, {'start': '1431.200', 'end': '1438.000', 'text': 'what political theorists call the west'}, {'start': '1434.559', 'end': '1440.720', 'text': 'folian system with with exactly with'}, {'start': '1438.000', 'end': '1442.320', 'text': 'sovereign independent nation states. So,'}, {'start': '1440.720', 'end': '1444.480', 'text': "so it's really structural. This problem"}, {'start': '1442.320', 'end': '1447.520', 'text': "is structural. It's not psychological"}, {'start': '1444.480', 'end': '1449.840', 'text': 'basically speaking. Uh, so if we just'}, {'start': '1447.520', 'end': '1452.240', 'text': 'have a better political order, I think'}, {'start': '1449.840', 'end': '1456.400', 'text': 'we could also expect better political'}, {'start': '1452.240', 'end': '1459.520', 'text': 'leaders where the legislation is really'}, {'start': '1456.400', 'end': '1462.159', 'text': 'for all of us, not for each and any one'}, {'start': '1459.520', 'end': '1465.279', 'text': 'of us, for all of us together. Then then'}, {'start': '1462.159', 'end': '1466.799', 'text': 'I think we could also expect better'}, {'start': '1465.279', 'end': '1469.440', 'text': 'leaders.'}, {'start': '1466.799', 'end': '1471.919', 'text': "Well, I I that's probably true. um and"}, {'start': '1469.440', 'end': '1474.720', 'text': 'you know um leaders in many European'}, {'start': '1471.919', 'end': '1476.960', 'text': 'countries and and some other regions you'}, {'start': '1474.720', 'end': '1478.720', 'text': 'know it truly is public service that'}, {'start': '1476.960', 'end': '1481.919', 'text': "they're doing and they see their lives"}, {'start': '1478.720', 'end': '1483.600', 'text': 'as as giving to the public and and and'}, {'start': '1481.919', 'end': '1485.760', 'text': "they're not in they're not out for"}, {'start': '1483.600', 'end': '1489.039', 'text': 'personal gain other than a little bit of'}, {'start': '1485.760', 'end': '1491.679', 'text': 'you know you know adoration from time to'}, {'start': '1489.039', 'end': '1494.000', 'text': "time but they're not out to milk the"}, {'start': '1491.679', 'end': '1495.760', 'text': 'entire nation for billions of dollars as'}, {'start': '1494.000', 'end': '1498.720', 'text': 'many leaders in the world are and you'}, {'start': '1495.760', 'end': '1500.720', 'text': 'know many many people enter politics in'}, {'start': '1498.720', 'end': '1504.000', 'text': 'this day and age in all regions of the'}, {'start': '1500.720', 'end': '1506.159', 'text': 'world exclusively to make money and to'}, {'start': '1504.000', 'end': '1508.720', 'text': 'steal money and to act fraudulently and'}, {'start': '1506.159', 'end': '1510.559', 'text': 'to get away with it um and even to'}, {'start': '1508.720', 'end': '1512.720', 'text': 'commit horrible international crimes and'}, {'start': '1510.559', 'end': '1515.120', 'text': "whatever it may be. So I mean there's"}, {'start': '1512.720', 'end': '1518.960', 'text': 'also something about the system which we'}, {'start': '1515.120', 'end': '1521.679', 'text': 'continue to um almost accept as a given'}, {'start': '1518.960', 'end': '1523.480', 'text': "you know and it's been around since 1648"}, {'start': '1521.679', 'end': '1525.679', 'text': 'in various forms but'}, {'start': '1523.480', 'end': '1528.240', 'text': 'ultimately everything else in life has'}, {'start': '1525.679', 'end': '1530.559', 'text': 'pretty much changed since 1648.'}, {'start': '1528.240', 'end': '1532.240', 'text': 'Transport has changed, food has changed,'}, {'start': '1530.559', 'end': '1533.600', 'text': 'whatever water systems have changed,'}, {'start': '1532.240', 'end': '1536.640', 'text': 'everything has changed, banking has'}, {'start': '1533.600', 'end': '1538.559', 'text': "changed. It's all changed, but not the"}, {'start': '1536.640', 'end': '1541.760', 'text': 'nation state system um that was'}, {'start': '1538.559', 'end': '1544.799', 'text': 'established for many good reasons at'}, {'start': '1541.760', 'end': '1547.200', 'text': 'that time in that after that 30-year war'}, {'start': '1544.799', 'end': '1548.520', 'text': 'and brutal war in Europe and after all'}, {'start': '1547.200', 'end': '1551.039', 'text': 'of the you know'}, {'start': '1548.520', 'end': '1554.559', 'text': 'philosophical rants and raves of so many'}, {'start': '1551.039', 'end': '1557.360', 'text': 'thinkers, it was an obvious outcome to'}, {'start': '1554.559', 'end': '1560.000', 'text': 'organize ourselves with borders and'}, {'start': '1557.360', 'end': '1562.720', 'text': 'nation states and so on. But now, I'}, {'start': '1560.000', 'end': '1565.360', 'text': 'mean, I truly believe we we must have'}, {'start': '1562.720', 'end': '1568.240', 'text': 'reached the stage where collectively as'}, {'start': '1565.360', 'end': '1570.320', 'text': "a species, we're ready to go to the next"}, {'start': '1568.240', 'end': '1573.600', 'text': 'level. And hopefully, my positive'}, {'start': '1570.320', 'end': '1577.679', 'text': 'optimistic take is all of the the mess'}, {'start': '1573.600', 'end': '1581.559', 'text': 'of 2025 is really the last dying gasps'}, {'start': '1577.679', 'end': '1584.320', 'text': 'of the old order um with the lack of'}, {'start': '1581.559', 'end': '1586.960', 'text': 'clarity as to what the new order will'}, {'start': '1584.320', 'end': '1588.960', 'text': "look like. And and it's a little bit of"}, {'start': '1586.960', 'end': '1590.720', 'text': 'a battle between ones that are truly'}, {'start': '1588.960', 'end': '1593.360', 'text': 'global in orientation, who see all'}, {'start': '1590.720', 'end': '1595.760', 'text': 'humans as equal, and those who are'}, {'start': '1593.360', 'end': '1597.760', 'text': 'jumping inward to see the their own type'}, {'start': '1595.760', 'end': '1599.360', 'text': 'or their own kind or their own ethnic'}, {'start': '1597.760', 'end': '1601.760', 'text': 'group or their own religion or their own'}, {'start': '1599.360', 'end': '1604.000', 'text': 'nationality as somehow superior to all'}, {'start': '1601.760', 'end': '1605.600', 'text': "the rest. And that's obviously what we"}, {'start': '1604.000', 'end': '1607.600', 'text': 'have to get beyond. And we need to'}, {'start': '1605.600', 'end': '1610.080', 'text': 'start, you know, seeing ourselves as'}, {'start': '1607.600', 'end': '1612.320', 'text': 'humans first and and understand that we'}, {'start': '1610.080', 'end': '1616.400', 'text': 'all share this planet. We were all born'}, {'start': '1612.320', 'end': '1618.400', 'text': 'in the same place. um you know and yet'}, {'start': '1616.400', 'end': '1620.080', 'text': 'the fact that you and I were born in the'}, {'start': '1618.400', 'end': '1622.799', 'text': 'western world at least I presume you'}, {'start': '1620.080', 'end': '1625.279', 'text': 'were born in Spagga um I was born in the'}, {'start': '1622.799', 'end': '1627.520', 'text': 'United States just by virtue of that we'}, {'start': '1625.279', 'end': '1629.600', 'text': 'were automatically 70 times richer than'}, {'start': '1627.520', 'end': '1632.320', 'text': 'someone born in subsaharan Africa on the'}, {'start': '1629.600', 'end': '1633.799', 'text': 'same day and that cannot be allowed to'}, {'start': '1632.320', 'end': '1637.440', 'text': 'continue you know'}, {'start': '1633.799', 'end': '1641.760', 'text': 'so whatever form it takes either we do'}, {'start': '1637.440', 'end': '1643.840', 'text': 'it or I fear as you do um we will perish'}, {'start': '1641.760', 'end': '1646.000', 'text': 'and maybe just you know if'}, {'start': '1643.840', 'end': '1648.400', 'text': 'We have just a few more minutes, but um'}, {'start': '1646.000', 'end': '1651.919', 'text': 'you dealt a lot with the some pretty'}, {'start': '1648.400', 'end': '1654.480', 'text': 'ghoulish questions in your book um from'}, {'start': '1651.919', 'end': '1656.720', 'text': 'despatism to democracy, how a world'}, {'start': '1654.480', 'end': '1660.240', 'text': 'government can save humanity by Springer'}, {'start': '1656.720', 'end': '1662.880', 'text': 'Press. You talked a lot about extinction'}, {'start': '1660.240', 'end': '1665.600', 'text': 'and nuclear armageddon and things of'}, {'start': '1662.880', 'end': '1667.919', 'text': 'that nature. So ju can you just run'}, {'start': '1665.600', 'end': '1670.159', 'text': 'through that for a second about um you'}, {'start': '1667.919', 'end': '1673.120', 'text': 'know the relationship between those'}, {'start': '1670.159', 'end': '1676.480', 'text': 'ultra ultimately bad outcomes and the'}, {'start': '1673.120', 'end': '1679.919', 'text': 'need for a world parliament.'}, {'start': '1676.480', 'end': '1681.000', 'text': 'I think mainly it has to do with simple'}, {'start': '1679.919', 'end': '1683.520', 'text': 'decision'}, {'start': '1681.000', 'end': '1686.480', 'text': 'problem again the tragedy of the'}, {'start': '1683.520', 'end': '1688.799', 'text': 'commons. I think that even even nice'}, {'start': '1686.480', 'end': '1690.720', 'text': 'politicians if there are such thing and'}, {'start': '1688.799', 'end': '1693.760', 'text': 'I think there are some nice politicians'}, {'start': '1690.720', 'end': '1695.840', 'text': 'in in some democratic states when they'}, {'start': '1693.760', 'end': '1699.200', 'text': 'come together to to solve problems like'}, {'start': '1695.840', 'end': '1700.799', 'text': 'like global heating uh they fail even'}, {'start': '1699.200', 'end': '1703.279', 'text': 'even represent our Swedish'}, {'start': '1700.799', 'end': '1705.320', 'text': 'representatives for example make all'}, {'start': '1703.279', 'end': '1708.919', 'text': 'efforts they can to'}, {'start': '1705.320', 'end': '1711.360', 'text': 'avoid carrying the burdens that'}, {'start': '1708.919', 'end': '1715.080', 'text': 'are associated with the solution to'}, {'start': '1711.360', 'end': '1720.000', 'text': 'these problems. So it it has to do with'}, {'start': '1715.080', 'end': '1722.960', 'text': 'this problem that that u um by being'}, {'start': '1720.000', 'end': '1725.679', 'text': 'successful by being successful in seeing'}, {'start': '1722.960', 'end': '1729.559', 'text': 'to to the interest they are set there to'}, {'start': '1725.679', 'end': '1734.399', 'text': 'see to uh they bring us together into'}, {'start': '1729.559', 'end': '1737.440', 'text': 'disaster. Uh so I mean think of war and'}, {'start': '1734.399', 'end': '1740.240', 'text': 'peace. Uh how did we establish peace'}, {'start': '1737.440', 'end': '1742.799', 'text': 'within nation states? By by establishing'}, {'start': '1740.240', 'end': '1744.880', 'text': 'a monopoly on on the use of violence in'}, {'start': '1742.799', 'end': '1747.679', 'text': 'the state. We need to do something'}, {'start': '1744.880', 'end': '1750.000', 'text': 'similar on the global scale. It is as'}, {'start': '1747.679', 'end': '1753.200', 'text': 'simple as that I think or and also of'}, {'start': '1750.000', 'end': '1756.799', 'text': 'course as difficult as that because the'}, {'start': '1753.200', 'end': '1759.039', 'text': 'same um mechanism that renders it'}, {'start': '1756.799', 'end': '1761.760', 'text': 'impossible for us to solve the problem'}, {'start': '1759.039', 'end': '1764.880', 'text': 'through negotiations between sovereign'}, {'start': '1761.760', 'end': '1767.600', 'text': 'nation states also renders it extremely'}, {'start': '1764.880', 'end': '1771.279', 'text': 'difficult to establish this this global'}, {'start': '1767.600', 'end': '1773.679', 'text': 'order that we this world state this this'}, {'start': '1771.279', 'end': '1777.679', 'text': 'um global to have a world parliament'}, {'start': '1773.679', 'end': '1780.399', 'text': 'really ruling the world. It is a problem'}, {'start': '1777.679', 'end': '1782.240', 'text': "with coordination really. It's not"}, {'start': '1780.399', 'end': '1784.880', 'text': 'problem with bad psychology with with'}, {'start': '1782.240', 'end': '1786.960', 'text': 'with our human nature or anything like'}, {'start': '1784.880', 'end': '1789.279', 'text': "that. It's it's a matter of"}, {'start': '1786.960', 'end': '1792.000', 'text': "coordination. And that's also why I put"}, {'start': '1789.279', 'end': '1795.360', 'text': 'my hope eventually in some kind of coup'}, {'start': '1792.000', 'end': '1798.399', 'text': 'some some some sort of the sex market'}, {'start': '1795.360', 'end': '1801.120', 'text': 'now where where where people who can'}, {'start': '1798.399', 'end': '1803.279', 'text': 'coordinate their actions can really'}, {'start': '1801.120', 'end': '1806.080', 'text': 'solve the problem and and then from then'}, {'start': '1803.279', 'end': '1808.720', 'text': 'on we can work for democracy I think but'}, {'start': '1806.080', 'end': '1812.320', 'text': 'but but the problem is really a'}, {'start': '1808.720', 'end': '1816.080', 'text': 'structural one theoretical problem'}, {'start': '1812.320', 'end': '1818.799', 'text': 'simple but but nasty. So can you just'}, {'start': '1816.080', 'end': '1822.000', 'text': 'explain what you mean by a coup? Again,'}, {'start': '1818.799', 'end': '1825.559', 'text': 'I just hope that people who are uh'}, {'start': '1822.000', 'end': '1830.480', 'text': 'situated in in strategically important'}, {'start': '1825.559', 'end': '1833.200', 'text': 'positions can see the that we are really'}, {'start': '1830.480', 'end': '1835.520', 'text': 'just at the precip. We we need to take'}, {'start': '1833.200', 'end': '1838.880', 'text': 'action of some sort and they will manage'}, {'start': '1835.520', 'end': '1843.880', 'text': 'to do that together. I mean such things'}, {'start': '1838.880', 'end': '1847.600', 'text': 'have happened in sorry my wife'}, {'start': '1843.880', 'end': '1850.399', 'text': 'just office but such things have'}, {'start': '1847.600', 'end': '1852.080', 'text': 'happened many times in history on a more'}, {'start': '1850.399', 'end': '1854.320', 'text': 'local scale. It could also I think'}, {'start': '1852.080', 'end': '1856.480', 'text': 'happen on a global scale. It would take'}, {'start': '1854.320', 'end': '1860.159', 'text': 'support of course some tacid support'}, {'start': '1856.480', 'end': '1863.200', 'text': 'from the big nations like China and the'}, {'start': '1860.159', 'end': '1866.200', 'text': 'United States. But but I hope there is'}, {'start': '1863.200', 'end': '1870.039', 'text': 'also in those states'}, {'start': '1866.200', 'end': '1874.399', 'text': 'some concern really for our'}, {'start': '1870.039', 'end': '1876.640', 'text': 'our glo common existence on this globe.'}, {'start': '1874.399', 'end': '1879.360', 'text': 'If we had a a world parliament, it would'}, {'start': '1876.640', 'end': '1881.919', 'text': 'need to be based on some agreed law or'}, {'start': '1879.360', 'end': '1883.520', 'text': 'rules, right? Would so what would that'}, {'start': '1881.919', 'end': '1885.600', 'text': 'be? Would there be a world constitution'}, {'start': '1883.520', 'end': '1887.200', 'text': 'or or could we simply use the the'}, {'start': '1885.600', 'end': '1889.200', 'text': 'universal declaration on human rights'}, {'start': '1887.200', 'end': '1890.960', 'text': 'for starters and then develop a'}, {'start': '1889.200', 'end': '1892.720', 'text': 'constitution or what would you the UN'}, {'start': '1890.960', 'end': '1894.960', 'text': 'charter? What would you propose? We'}, {'start': '1892.720', 'end': '1898.480', 'text': 'would need a constitution of course'}, {'start': '1894.960', 'end': '1899.880', 'text': 'written or unwritten. I mean do the UK'}, {'start': '1898.480', 'end': '1903.039', 'text': 'have'}, {'start': '1899.880', 'end': '1905.519', 'text': 'a do they have a constitution? Well, I'}, {'start': '1903.039', 'end': '1907.760', 'text': "think they have but it's not written."}, {'start': '1905.519', 'end': '1910.960', 'text': "That's right. Yeah. It's it's better to"}, {'start': '1907.760', 'end': '1915.679', 'text': 'have it spelled out I think in clear'}, {'start': '1910.960', 'end': '1918.799', 'text': 'terms. so that that um we really could'}, {'start': '1915.679', 'end': '1922.960', 'text': 'organize our global democracy around it'}, {'start': '1918.799', 'end': '1925.399', 'text': 'and have it under the laws so to speak'}, {'start': '1922.960', 'end': '1927.840', 'text': 'the democracy under the'}, {'start': '1925.399', 'end': '1929.840', 'text': 'laws. So we would need a world'}, {'start': '1927.840', 'end': '1932.960', 'text': 'constitution. So that would be one of'}, {'start': '1929.840', 'end': '1935.640', 'text': 'the important task to set oneself when'}, {'start': '1932.960', 'end': '1938.960', 'text': 'you live under some sort of global'}, {'start': '1935.640', 'end': '1942.720', 'text': 'despotism saved at the last minute from'}, {'start': '1938.960', 'end': '1944.399', 'text': 'uh nuclear disaster, global heating and'}, {'start': '1942.720', 'end': '1946.640', 'text': 'there are also of course other threats'}, {'start': '1944.399', 'end': '1947.480', 'text': 'to do with artificial intelligence and'}, {'start': '1946.640', 'end': '1950.000', 'text': 'so'}, {'start': '1947.480', 'end': '1953.039', 'text': 'the many people are concerned with'}, {'start': '1950.000', 'end': '1955.760', 'text': 'today. Well, maybe the, you know, the UN'}, {'start': '1953.039', 'end': '1958.480', 'text': 'charter will turn 80 uh 80 years of age'}, {'start': '1955.760', 'end': '1961.120', 'text': 'on the 26th of June um in just two'}, {'start': '1958.480', 'end': '1962.880', 'text': "months time. So maybe that's a good time"}, {'start': '1961.120', 'end': '1966.960', 'text': 'for the world to reflect and come'}, {'start': '1962.880', 'end': '1968.880', 'text': 'together and and of course preserve the'}, {'start': '1966.960', 'end': '1970.480', 'text': 'good and positive forward-looking'}, {'start': '1968.880', 'end': '1972.320', 'text': 'elements of the charter, but also to'}, {'start': '1970.480', 'end': '1974.960', 'text': 'begin to start seeing it as a stepping'}, {'start': '1972.320', 'end': '1977.919', 'text': 'stone and not an end in in and of'}, {'start': '1974.960', 'end': '1981.360', 'text': 'itself. and perhaps recent political'}, {'start': '1977.919', 'end': '1983.120', 'text': 'developments in a certain country um'}, {'start': '1981.360', 'end': '1985.760', 'text': "that everybody's thinking about these"}, {'start': '1983.120', 'end': '1989.600', 'text': 'days and everywhere else can use this'}, {'start': '1985.760', 'end': '1993.120', 'text': 'time not to be fearful and afraid but to'}, {'start': '1989.600', 'end': '1996.159', 'text': 'come together and unify in a way that'}, {'start': '1993.120', 'end': '1998.720', 'text': 'was perhaps not as necessary 3 months'}, {'start': '1996.159', 'end': '2000.399', 'text': 'ago uh as it is today. And through that'}, {'start': '1998.720', 'end': '2002.559', 'text': 'unification, we can come together and'}, {'start': '2000.399', 'end': '2005.440', 'text': 'start discussing and finding new common'}, {'start': '2002.559', 'end': '2007.840', 'text': 'principles that we can build upon. And'}, {'start': '2005.440', 'end': '2010.000', 'text': "maybe the dream, so far, history's"}, {'start': '2007.840', 'end': '2012.720', 'text': 'impossible dream of a of a world'}, {'start': '2010.000', 'end': '2014.720', 'text': 'parliament will come true in our'}, {'start': '2012.720', 'end': '2018.240', 'text': 'lifetimes.'}, {'start': '2014.720', 'end': '2019.600', 'text': "Let's hope so. Torbjorn Torbjorn Tensio,"}, {'start': '2018.240', 'end': '2022.320', 'text': "thank you so much. And you're speaking"}, {'start': '2019.600', 'end': '2024.399', 'text': 'to us today from Stockholm, right? Yes.'}, {'start': '2022.320', 'end': '2026.240', 'text': 'Yeah. Okay, great. Well, thank you so'}, {'start': '2024.399', 'end': '2028.320', 'text': 'much. That was wonderful. and I hope we'}, {'start': '2026.240', 'end': '2032.080', 'text': 'can um have you back on the channel'}, {'start': '2028.320', 'end': '2034.320', 'text': 'sometime soon. Okay. Thank you. Very'}, {'start': '2032.080', 'end': '2038.080', 'text': 'nice being here. Thank you. All right.'}, {'start': '2034.320', 'end': '2038.080', 'text': "Take care, Torbjorn. We'll see you soon."}]