STEMPIRE podcast #22 - Ethics in the mirror
STEMpire UDLAP
[{'start': '4.720', 'end': '11.200', 'text': 'asal limits. I am excited to have a that'}, {'start': '8.400', 'end': '13.360', 'text': 'doctor called Jensen Grlex. We will'}, {'start': '11.200', 'end': '14.960', 'text': 'introduce you. Thank you for coming.'}, {'start': '13.360', 'end': '16.880', 'text': 'Well, we are thrilled to introduce our'}, {'start': '14.960', 'end': '18.960', 'text': 'guest Dr. Jensen Grlclass, associate'}, {'start': '16.880', 'end': '21.359', 'text': 'professor and chair of cyber trust at'}, {'start': '18.960', 'end': '24.320', 'text': 'the technical university of Munich with'}, {'start': '21.359', 'end': '27.840', 'text': 'over 100 publications and a focus on AI'}, {'start': '24.320', 'end': '29.840', 'text': 'ethics, cyber security and privacy. also'}, {'start': '27.840', 'end': '31.519', 'text': 'associate professor and chair of cyber'}, {'start': '29.840', 'end': '34.880', 'text': 'trust at the technical university of'}, {'start': '31.519', 'end': '37.120', 'text': 'Munich TUM. He holds a PhD from US'}, {'start': '34.880', 'end': '39.360', 'text': 'Berkeley School of Information with'}, {'start': '37.120', 'end': '42.000', 'text': "master's degrees in computer science and"}, {'start': '39.360', 'end': '44.160', 'text': 'informations management and systems. He'}, {'start': '42.000', 'end': '46.239', 'text': 'conducted post-doal research and at'}, {'start': '44.160', 'end': '48.640', 'text': 'Princeton University center for'}, {'start': '46.239', 'end': '50.480', 'text': "information technology policy. He's here"}, {'start': '48.640', 'end': '52.879', 'text': 'to share insights from his large-scale'}, {'start': '50.480', 'end': '54.800', 'text': 'studies on facial analysis AI and also'}, {'start': '52.879', 'end': '56.719', 'text': 'he has just given a conference about'}, {'start': '54.800', 'end': '59.280', 'text': 'cross-cultural perspectives on the'}, {'start': '56.719', 'end': '61.840', 'text': 'ethics of facial analysis AI here in the'}, {'start': '59.280', 'end': '63.520', 'text': 'university laser. Welcome doctor. How'}, {'start': '61.840', 'end': '65.280', 'text': 'are you?'}, {'start': '63.520', 'end': '67.119', 'text': "Thanks so much for having me. I'm"}, {'start': '65.280', 'end': '70.240', 'text': 'looking forward to our conversation.'}, {'start': '67.119', 'end': '72.479', 'text': 'Okay. Well uh first to introduce uh we'}, {'start': '70.240', 'end': '74.720', 'text': 'will talk about the AI and the facial'}, {'start': '72.479', 'end': '76.880', 'text': 'recognition. H could you explain how'}, {'start': '74.720', 'end': '79.680', 'text': 'facial analysis identifies and'}, {'start': '76.880', 'end': '84.000', 'text': 'attributes like emotions like or'}, {'start': '79.680', 'end': '86.720', 'text': 'ethnicity in the people? So of course uh'}, {'start': '84.000', 'end': '89.200', 'text': 'this is a very broad research landscape'}, {'start': '86.720', 'end': '91.759', 'text': 'but uh uh depending on what'}, {'start': '89.200', 'end': '94.320', 'text': 'characteristics should be read out uh'}, {'start': '91.759', 'end': '96.479', 'text': 'about an individual different uh'}, {'start': '94.320', 'end': '99.119', 'text': 'approaches can be taken right. So for'}, {'start': '96.479', 'end': '102.799', 'text': 'example when it comes to the recognition'}, {'start': '99.119', 'end': '105.280', 'text': 'and identification of specific faces'}, {'start': '102.799', 'end': '107.680', 'text': 'essentially the process in a nutshell'}, {'start': '105.280', 'end': '110.960', 'text': 'works as follows that a phase is'}, {'start': '107.680', 'end': '113.759', 'text': 'decomposed into small units um that'}, {'start': '110.960', 'end': '117.600', 'text': 'allow for easier processing and then'}, {'start': '113.759', 'end': '120.399', 'text': 'also analytic treatment of the data to'}, {'start': '117.600', 'end': '122.640', 'text': 'essentially uh lead to a matching'}, {'start': '120.399', 'end': '125.360', 'text': 'between different data sets. Right? So'}, {'start': '122.640', 'end': '129.840', 'text': "in identification you're trying to for"}, {'start': '125.360', 'end': '132.000', 'text': 'example in a known database of faces to'}, {'start': '129.840', 'end': '134.400', 'text': 'see whether a person that is right in'}, {'start': '132.000', 'end': '137.200', 'text': 'front of you is in this known database'}, {'start': '134.400', 'end': '141.680', 'text': 'or not. Right? Versus face recognition'}, {'start': '137.200', 'end': '144.000', 'text': 'is a broader task right where in a um'}, {'start': '141.680', 'end': '146.520', 'text': 'more broader population you are trying'}, {'start': '144.000', 'end': '149.440', 'text': 'to recognize what kind of different'}, {'start': '146.520', 'end': '151.840', 'text': 'faces and the associated personas are'}, {'start': '149.440', 'end': '154.560', 'text': 'out there. Okay. Um when it comes to'}, {'start': '151.840', 'end': '157.599', 'text': 'specific characteristics like for'}, {'start': '154.560', 'end': '160.400', 'text': 'example the uh the color of the skin,'}, {'start': '157.599', 'end': '163.120', 'text': 'the gender or so of course that generic'}, {'start': '160.400', 'end': '165.440', 'text': 'approach will differ and include next to'}, {'start': '163.120', 'end': '168.080', 'text': 'essentially the surface characteristics'}, {'start': '165.440', 'end': '170.560', 'text': 'of the data additional data points.'}, {'start': '168.080', 'end': '173.920', 'text': 'Right? Okay. I I have a question. How do'}, {'start': '170.560', 'end': '176.400', 'text': 'we can rely on the on the face? Why not'}, {'start': '173.920', 'end': '179.840', 'text': 'the body language or something like I'}, {'start': '176.400', 'end': '182.959', 'text': 'think if you chart an image of someone'}, {'start': '179.840', 'end': '186.480', 'text': "screaming to the AI it will say it's"}, {'start': '182.959', 'end': '189.200', 'text': 'like in pain but with our context uh'}, {'start': '186.480', 'end': '191.920', 'text': 'like a football is like he has scored a'}, {'start': '189.200', 'end': '195.280', 'text': 'goal and he is scramming by happiness.'}, {'start': '191.920', 'end': '197.920', 'text': 'How do we can different the context?'}, {'start': '195.280', 'end': '200.959', 'text': 'So um this is a very interesting'}, {'start': '197.920', 'end': '203.280', 'text': 'question. So you highlighted that there'}, {'start': '200.959', 'end': '206.400', 'text': 'are different contexts in which we may'}, {'start': '203.280', 'end': '208.560', 'text': 'have similar facial expression right. Um'}, {'start': '206.400', 'end': '211.360', 'text': 'but there also may be different cultural'}, {'start': '208.560', 'end': '214.400', 'text': 'characteristics where a certain face may'}, {'start': '211.360', 'end': '218.760', 'text': 'represent completely different emotions'}, {'start': '214.400', 'end': '221.760', 'text': 'uh or other characteristics. Right? So'}, {'start': '218.760', 'end': '223.760', 'text': 'um if you are very skeptical of course'}, {'start': '221.760', 'end': '227.440', 'text': 'about these procedures that would mean'}, {'start': '223.760', 'end': '229.680', 'text': 'that uh um usage of these technologies'}, {'start': '227.440', 'end': '233.599', 'text': 'should be used only very sparingly'}, {'start': '229.680', 'end': '237.040', 'text': 'because exactly uh we may uh come into a'}, {'start': '233.599', 'end': '242.000', 'text': 'situation where we may misidentify for'}, {'start': '237.040', 'end': '244.319', 'text': 'example a specific emotion. So um more'}, {'start': '242.000', 'end': '246.560', 'text': 'generally going back to the technology'}, {'start': '244.319', 'end': '249.439', 'text': 'typically the identification of for'}, {'start': '246.560', 'end': '254.159', 'text': 'example emotions relies on label data'}, {'start': '249.439', 'end': '255.880', 'text': 'sets right and in order to reduce the'}, {'start': '254.159', 'end': '257.759', 'text': 'likelihood of a'}, {'start': '255.880', 'end': '261.120', 'text': 'miscatategorization. Of course it would'}, {'start': '257.759', 'end': '265.680', 'text': 'be useful to have uh specific data sets'}, {'start': '261.120', 'end': '268.080', 'text': 'for each culture for each gender um for'}, {'start': '265.680', 'end': '271.040', 'text': 'different age categories and so on and'}, {'start': '268.080', 'end': '274.000', 'text': 'so forth. But it will only go so far to'}, {'start': '271.040', 'end': '276.560', 'text': 'really avoid these problems in practice.'}, {'start': '274.000', 'end': '280.680', 'text': 'Humans made these label data sets or are'}, {'start': '276.560', 'end': '283.199', 'text': 'made by a computer or so um'}, {'start': '280.680', 'end': '287.280', 'text': 'traditionally uh it is indeed the case'}, {'start': '283.199', 'end': '290.320', 'text': 'that individuals will label data based'}, {'start': '287.280', 'end': '292.400', 'text': 'on some kind of labeling criteria. But'}, {'start': '290.320', 'end': '295.919', 'text': 'of course their own experiences, their'}, {'start': '292.400', 'end': '299.199', 'text': 'own stereotypical vision of what a'}, {'start': '295.919', 'end': '301.600', 'text': 'construct is like will color into their'}, {'start': '299.199', 'end': '304.160', 'text': 'decisions to label data. And it is also'}, {'start': '301.600', 'end': '307.360', 'text': 'often the case that such labeling will'}, {'start': '304.160', 'end': '310.639', 'text': 'be done by uh a group of individuals'}, {'start': '307.360', 'end': '313.199', 'text': 'belonging to a certain uh demographic or'}, {'start': '310.639', 'end': '315.680', 'text': 'a particular cultural category. But then'}, {'start': '313.199', 'end': '318.199', 'text': 'the label data will be applied to other'}, {'start': '315.680', 'end': '320.560', 'text': 'contexts and then the problem of'}, {'start': '318.199', 'end': '323.840', 'text': 'miscatategorization is apparent again.'}, {'start': '320.560', 'end': '325.440', 'text': 'Yeah. Yeah. I would uh like said that in'}, {'start': '323.840', 'end': '327.759', 'text': 'your presentation you talk about this'}, {'start': '325.440', 'end': '330.680', 'text': 'peculiar difference between epistemology'}, {'start': '327.759', 'end': '333.600', 'text': 'and pragmatism. You said that uh not'}, {'start': '330.680', 'end': '335.759', 'text': 'epistemically valid but pragmatically'}, {'start': '333.600', 'end': '338.080', 'text': 'relevant. Why do you think humans have'}, {'start': '335.759', 'end': '339.680', 'text': 'this bias between what is useful and'}, {'start': '338.080', 'end': '343.120', 'text': 'what is real?'}, {'start': '339.680', 'end': '345.600', 'text': 'So um the the the question that you are'}, {'start': '343.120', 'end': '348.720', 'text': 'alluding to is uh whether people do'}, {'start': '345.600', 'end': '351.120', 'text': 'believe that a certain inference about'}, {'start': '348.720', 'end': '354.720', 'text': 'uh for example portray of a person can'}, {'start': '351.120', 'end': '357.039', 'text': 'be made or cannot be made by technology'}, {'start': '354.720', 'end': '359.199', 'text': 'and whether uh irrespective of the'}, {'start': '357.039', 'end': '361.840', 'text': 'question whether this inference can be'}, {'start': '359.199', 'end': '364.720', 'text': 'made by the technology um such'}, {'start': '361.840', 'end': '367.360', 'text': 'inferences even if flawed should be used'}, {'start': '364.720', 'end': '369.680', 'text': 'in practice right and the result that I'}, {'start': '367.360', 'end': '372.000', 'text': 'presented is that indeed We often have'}, {'start': '369.680', 'end': '374.319', 'text': 'this undesirable constellation where'}, {'start': '372.000', 'end': '377.600', 'text': 'people believe an inference cannot be'}, {'start': '374.319', 'end': '380.960', 'text': 'made right by the technology but they'}, {'start': '377.600', 'end': '384.080', 'text': 'still uh believing that it is useful to'}, {'start': '380.960', 'end': '386.240', 'text': 'use this inference in practice. So I'}, {'start': '384.080', 'end': '388.960', 'text': 'think there are many reasons that may'}, {'start': '386.240', 'end': '391.360', 'text': 'explain uh such observations. One of'}, {'start': '388.960', 'end': '393.280', 'text': 'them is that uh participants in the'}, {'start': '391.360', 'end': '397.199', 'text': 'study may have a certain sense of'}, {'start': '393.280', 'end': '399.280', 'text': 'excitement uh of using technologies u'}, {'start': '397.199', 'end': '400.960', 'text': 'that they feel passionate about in many'}, {'start': '399.280', 'end': '403.199', 'text': 'different contexts as we also'}, {'start': '400.960', 'end': '406.560', 'text': 'represented it in our study. There may'}, {'start': '403.199', 'end': '409.199', 'text': 'be also a belief right that uh um the'}, {'start': '406.560', 'end': '411.759', 'text': 'importance of using an analysis'}, {'start': '409.199', 'end': '413.680', 'text': 'technology in a context is simply more'}, {'start': '411.759', 'end': '417.120', 'text': 'important than the risk of doing a'}, {'start': '413.680', 'end': '419.880', 'text': 'mistake right. So um again it depends on'}, {'start': '417.120', 'end': '424.080', 'text': 'the seriousness of the context um how'}, {'start': '419.880', 'end': '426.479', 'text': 'much one should uh counterbalance these'}, {'start': '424.080', 'end': '428.800', 'text': 'kind of trends. Do you think this is'}, {'start': '426.479', 'end': '431.599', 'text': "this excitement and this passion uh it's"}, {'start': '428.800', 'end': '433.919', 'text': 'a level of bias for the labels or for'}, {'start': '431.599', 'end': '438.000', 'text': 'the levels of accuracy of the output of'}, {'start': '433.919', 'end': '440.960', 'text': 'the AI? Um it is certainly a bias in the'}, {'start': '438.000', 'end': '443.199', 'text': 'sense that uh um it leads to'}, {'start': '440.960', 'end': '445.280', 'text': 'everinccreasing deployment of these'}, {'start': '443.199', 'end': '447.280', 'text': 'technologies in practice before they are'}, {'start': '445.280', 'end': '448.960', 'text': 'ready. And if you have followed the news'}, {'start': '447.280', 'end': '452.639', 'text': 'over the last couple of months, then'}, {'start': '448.960', 'end': '455.599', 'text': "you've often seen uh a constant back and"}, {'start': '452.639', 'end': '458.160', 'text': 'forth between industry leaders uh public'}, {'start': '455.599', 'end': '462.400', 'text': 'policy individuals warning against these'}, {'start': '458.160', 'end': '464.880', 'text': 'technologies and uh even outlining dire'}, {'start': '462.400', 'end': '467.120', 'text': 'threats to our future society. But at'}, {'start': '464.880', 'end': '469.120', 'text': 'the same time also people moving ahead'}, {'start': '467.120', 'end': '470.560', 'text': 'and saying well we need a much more'}, {'start': '469.120', 'end': '473.440', 'text': 'rational assessment of these'}, {'start': '470.560', 'end': '475.680', 'text': 'technologies. we should not worry about'}, {'start': '473.440', 'end': '477.840', 'text': 'these doomsdays scenarios and focus on'}, {'start': '475.680', 'end': '479.919', 'text': 'the now and on the careful'}, {'start': '477.840', 'end': '482.000', 'text': 'implementation of the technologies and'}, {'start': '479.919', 'end': '485.360', 'text': "in fact there's nothing to worry about"}, {'start': '482.000', 'end': '487.759', 'text': 'and uh uh I I think it is useful to'}, {'start': '485.360', 'end': '490.479', 'text': 'listen to both camps right and again'}, {'start': '487.759', 'end': '492.319', 'text': 'depending on the scenario to make a'}, {'start': '490.479', 'end': '494.400', 'text': 'well-reasoned decision on whether'}, {'start': '492.319', 'end': '498.080', 'text': 'deployment should take place I think we'}, {'start': '494.400', 'end': '500.800', 'text': 'need to build in our society to give'}, {'start': '498.080', 'end': '503.360', 'text': 'more transparent to the facial'}, {'start': '500.800', 'end': '506.319', 'text': 'recognition of AI. How do we can do'}, {'start': '503.360', 'end': '508.800', 'text': 'that? Um, it is difficult. For example,'}, {'start': '506.319', 'end': '512.080', 'text': 'in the Mexican context, one would argue'}, {'start': '508.800', 'end': '514.719', 'text': "that there's a um strong desire for"}, {'start': '512.080', 'end': '518.000', 'text': 'increasing safety in society, right? So,'}, {'start': '514.719', 'end': '520.399', 'text': "there's a significant use case uh for"}, {'start': '518.000', 'end': '522.880', 'text': 'people to think that uh the more'}, {'start': '520.399', 'end': '526.480', 'text': 'monitoring takes place uh the less'}, {'start': '522.880', 'end': '528.640', 'text': 'likely are uh negative outcomes when it'}, {'start': '526.480', 'end': '531.120', 'text': 'comes to public security, but also'}, {'start': '528.640', 'end': '533.519', 'text': 'security in buildings and so on. and so'}, {'start': '531.120', 'end': '536.399', 'text': 'forth. Right? So given this context of'}, {'start': '533.519', 'end': '538.480', 'text': 'course then it is very hard um to argue'}, {'start': '536.399', 'end': '540.959', 'text': 'for certain restrictions. Having said'}, {'start': '538.480', 'end': '545.440', 'text': 'that there are many technologies already'}, {'start': '540.959', 'end': '548.080', 'text': 'available that still um improve the'}, {'start': '545.440', 'end': '551.600', 'text': 'state of privacy of the people who are'}, {'start': '548.080', 'end': '553.440', 'text': 'moving through a space. So you can'}, {'start': '551.600', 'end': '556.399', 'text': 'collect the data but immediately'}, {'start': '553.440', 'end': '558.560', 'text': 'transform it into something where the'}, {'start': '556.399', 'end': '561.440', 'text': 'privacy of individuals is being'}, {'start': '558.560', 'end': '564.000', 'text': 'preserved. Right? So but of course this'}, {'start': '561.440', 'end': '566.480', 'text': 'uh carries with it certain costs like'}, {'start': '564.000', 'end': '568.240', 'text': 'for example computational cost to'}, {'start': '566.480', 'end': '571.360', 'text': 'introduce privacy preserving'}, {'start': '568.240', 'end': '573.440', 'text': 'technologies and then it depends on us'}, {'start': '571.360', 'end': '577.440', 'text': 'uh as a society whether we are willing'}, {'start': '573.440', 'end': '580.160', 'text': 'to bear this cost to allow for security'}, {'start': '577.440', 'end': '581.839', 'text': 'relevant monitoring but at the same time'}, {'start': '580.160', 'end': '584.959', 'text': 'uh protects the privacy rights of'}, {'start': '581.839', 'end': '588.320', 'text': 'individuals. Okay. Do you talk about a'}, {'start': '584.959', 'end': '592.000', 'text': 'project called AI dialogues? Can you'}, {'start': '588.320', 'end': '594.320', 'text': 'explain about that? So um we we run a'}, {'start': '592.000', 'end': '597.360', 'text': 'lot of empirical studies and a lot of'}, {'start': '594.320', 'end': '600.080', 'text': 'them are uh survey and interview studies'}, {'start': '597.360', 'end': '602.480', 'text': 'but we are also very eager to really'}, {'start': '600.080', 'end': '605.760', 'text': 'listen to the opinions and to the'}, {'start': '602.480', 'end': '608.560', 'text': 'visions of average people in society and'}, {'start': '605.760', 'end': '610.959', 'text': 'with the global AI dialogues we started'}, {'start': '608.560', 'end': '613.839', 'text': 'this workshop series where we held'}, {'start': '610.959', 'end': '617.519', 'text': 'workshops around the world in uh in'}, {'start': '613.839', 'end': '621.040', 'text': 'Germany in Nigeria in Japan in India in'}, {'start': '617.519', 'end': '624.240', 'text': 'Mexico and also O Bolivia where we asked'}, {'start': '621.040', 'end': '627.600', 'text': 'people how they would envision um a'}, {'start': '624.240', 'end': '630.320', 'text': 'positive future with certain AI based'}, {'start': '627.600', 'end': '632.320', 'text': 'technologies and what benefits they see,'}, {'start': '630.320', 'end': '634.720', 'text': 'what risks they see, what consequences'}, {'start': '632.320', 'end': '637.040', 'text': 'of deployments they see and eventually'}, {'start': '634.720', 'end': '639.279', 'text': 'what is the scenario that they believe'}, {'start': '637.040', 'end': '642.000', 'text': 'societies should steer towards. All'}, {'start': '639.279', 'end': '644.079', 'text': 'right. Um also your research includes'}, {'start': '642.000', 'end': '646.720', 'text': 'participant from all countries like'}, {'start': '644.079', 'end': '649.680', 'text': "Argentina, Kenya and Japan. uh what's a"}, {'start': '646.720', 'end': '652.640', 'text': 'notable difference between the cultures'}, {'start': '649.680', 'end': '656.560', 'text': 'how be how they view the actual use of'}, {'start': '652.640', 'end': '658.959', 'text': "facial analysis AI it's um important to"}, {'start': '656.560', 'end': '661.360', 'text': 'note that of course across in many'}, {'start': '658.959', 'end': '664.160', 'text': 'different countries often people deal'}, {'start': '661.360', 'end': '666.959', 'text': 'with the same technologies right they'}, {'start': '664.160', 'end': '669.360', 'text': 'are often pushed uh by certain industry'}, {'start': '666.959', 'end': '672.959', 'text': 'actors that for example come from North'}, {'start': '669.360', 'end': '674.560', 'text': 'America or from Asian countries and uh'}, {'start': '672.959', 'end': '676.079', 'text': "there's of course a question whether"}, {'start': '674.560', 'end': '679.880', 'text': 'these technologies'}, {'start': '676.079', 'end': '684.480', 'text': 'allow for the manifestation of cultural'}, {'start': '679.880', 'end': '687.519', 'text': 'differences. So um so one takeaway is of'}, {'start': '684.480', 'end': '689.600', 'text': 'course that we should be uh more careful'}, {'start': '687.519', 'end': '692.720', 'text': 'in the design and deployment of these'}, {'start': '689.600', 'end': '695.680', 'text': 'technologies to be aware of the'}, {'start': '692.720', 'end': '697.760', 'text': 'differences in different countries. Um'}, {'start': '695.680', 'end': '700.959', 'text': 'we have for example seen in the data'}, {'start': '697.760', 'end': '703.519', 'text': 'that the Japanese survey takers have'}, {'start': '700.959', 'end': '707.200', 'text': 'different concerns regarding the'}, {'start': '703.519', 'end': '710.000', 'text': 'interpretation of their faces. So there'}, {'start': '707.200', 'end': '712.560', 'text': 'are then some highle takeaways right'}, {'start': '710.000', 'end': '714.720', 'text': 'that uh may lead to different context'}, {'start': '712.560', 'end': '717.519', 'text': 'where such utilization should be'}, {'start': '714.720', 'end': '719.839', 'text': 'prohibited right or if the systems are'}, {'start': '717.519', 'end': '722.079', 'text': "being used uh that they're used in"}, {'start': '719.839', 'end': '724.000', 'text': 'slightly different ways. H how can we'}, {'start': '722.079', 'end': '727.360', 'text': 'know this level of difference of context'}, {'start': '724.000', 'end': '730.240', 'text': 'between Japan or and for the ones that'}, {'start': '727.360', 'end': '732.959', 'text': 'develop this technology? So of course'}, {'start': '730.240', 'end': '734.639', 'text': 'studies like ours where we directly ask'}, {'start': '732.959', 'end': '737.040', 'text': 'individuals about the perceptions'}, {'start': '734.639', 'end': '739.920', 'text': 'regarding the systems are helpful but'}, {'start': '737.040', 'end': '742.560', 'text': 'once systems are deployed of course the'}, {'start': '739.920', 'end': '747.680', 'text': 'data from the deployment can also help'}, {'start': '742.560', 'end': '749.920', 'text': 'us to understand usage or non-usage if'}, {'start': '747.680', 'end': '753.839', 'text': 'citizen even have the choice. Right? So'}, {'start': '749.920', 'end': '755.279', 'text': 'if citizens are actively avoiding right'}, {'start': '753.839', 'end': '758.320', 'text': 'certain scenarios where these'}, {'start': '755.279', 'end': '760.880', 'text': 'technologies are used right through uh'}, {'start': '758.320', 'end': '762.600', 'text': 'active non-usage right this is a very'}, {'start': '760.880', 'end': '765.360', 'text': 'strong signal that they are not'}, {'start': '762.600', 'end': '768.079', 'text': 'comfortable in these kind of situations'}, {'start': '765.360', 'end': '771.200', 'text': 'right so this are just two types of data'}, {'start': '768.079', 'end': '774.000', 'text': 'that we can use right to better'}, {'start': '771.200', 'end': '776.240', 'text': 'understand in what context deployment'}, {'start': '774.000', 'end': '778.639', 'text': 'and what kind of deployment makes'}, {'start': '776.240', 'end': '780.880', 'text': 'actually sense okay where where is the'}, {'start': '778.639', 'end': '782.959', 'text': "tendency of this technology it's will be"}, {'start': '780.880', 'end': '786.240', 'text': "growing up like I think there's no going"}, {'start': '782.959', 'end': '788.079', 'text': 'back there is a technology like the'}, {'start': '786.240', 'end': '790.639', 'text': 'industry are applying the that'}, {'start': '788.079', 'end': '792.959', 'text': 'technology and we need to learn how to'}, {'start': '790.639', 'end': '796.320', 'text': "live with it um it's it's certainly the"}, {'start': '792.959', 'end': '799.839', 'text': 'case that once a technology is being'}, {'start': '796.320', 'end': '802.639', 'text': 'deployed right and well known by society'}, {'start': '799.839', 'end': '806.560', 'text': 'that eradicating this technology is'}, {'start': '802.639', 'end': '810.240', 'text': 'typically not a viable option but uh we'}, {'start': '806.560', 'end': '812.079', 'text': 'see it for example with the usage of uh'}, {'start': '810.240', 'end': '815.200', 'text': 'smartphones and social networking'}, {'start': '812.079', 'end': '817.760', 'text': 'technologies that certain societies are'}, {'start': '815.200', 'end': '820.480', 'text': 'steering back. Right? So I believe it is'}, {'start': '817.760', 'end': '824.079', 'text': 'Australia which has just introduced uh'}, {'start': '820.480', 'end': '826.480', 'text': 'regulation that u uh young people should'}, {'start': '824.079', 'end': '830.399', 'text': 'not use certain technologies up to a'}, {'start': '826.480', 'end': '833.519', 'text': 'certain age. And uh so uh of course um'}, {'start': '830.399', 'end': '836.320', 'text': 'this is a very complex problem space but'}, {'start': '833.519', 'end': '839.440', 'text': 'uh uh I think uh it would be a fallacy'}, {'start': '836.320', 'end': '842.560', 'text': 'to believe that uh we cannot shape the'}, {'start': '839.440', 'end': '846.000', 'text': 'usage of technology in society and as I'}, {'start': '842.560', 'end': '849.040', 'text': 'said earlier of course uh we can shape'}, {'start': '846.000', 'end': '852.000', 'text': 'the exact technical design of these'}, {'start': '849.040', 'end': '854.399', 'text': 'technologies. We can shape what data is'}, {'start': '852.000', 'end': '856.800', 'text': 'being collected and how this data is'}, {'start': '854.399', 'end': '859.040', 'text': 'being used eventually including question'}, {'start': '856.800', 'end': '861.600', 'text': 'of whether this data should be retained'}, {'start': '859.040', 'end': '864.160', 'text': 'for a long time. Who can have access to'}, {'start': '861.600', 'end': '865.760', 'text': 'this data for what purposes? So many'}, {'start': '864.160', 'end': '868.480', 'text': 'traditional questions that you already'}, {'start': '865.760', 'end': '870.240', 'text': 'discussed in the privacy space uh in the'}, {'start': '868.480', 'end': '872.560', 'text': 'research field. Talking about these'}, {'start': '870.240', 'end': '874.320', 'text': 'regulations, uh can you talk us talk'}, {'start': '872.560', 'end': '876.800', 'text': 'about uh what you say in your conference'}, {'start': '874.320', 'end': '878.920', 'text': 'about the hiring part and the the'}, {'start': '876.800', 'end': '881.920', 'text': 'companies that are implementing these'}, {'start': '878.920', 'end': '885.600', 'text': 'automatized technologies of AI and face'}, {'start': '881.920', 'end': '887.920', 'text': 'detections in their hiring operations. I'}, {'start': '885.600', 'end': '891.519', 'text': 'cited some data from Forbes and Harvard'}, {'start': '887.920', 'end': '894.279', 'text': 'Business Review in my talk that indicate'}, {'start': '891.519', 'end': '897.360', 'text': 'that these technologies are heavily used'}, {'start': '894.279', 'end': '900.000', 'text': 'already by organizations in particular'}, {'start': '897.360', 'end': '902.160', 'text': 'large ones that often receive a huge'}, {'start': '900.000', 'end': '904.720', 'text': 'amount of applications for specific'}, {'start': '902.160', 'end': '907.360', 'text': "positions, right? They're being used uh"}, {'start': '904.720', 'end': '910.240', 'text': 'at the very least in the initial stages'}, {'start': '907.360', 'end': '912.880', 'text': 'of the hiring process. So now the'}, {'start': '910.240', 'end': '915.600', 'text': 'question is what consequences does that'}, {'start': '912.880', 'end': '918.079', 'text': 'have? Right? and would it lead to biased'}, {'start': '915.600', 'end': '920.240', 'text': 'outcomes or discriminatory outcomes for'}, {'start': '918.079', 'end': '922.639', 'text': 'certain parts of the population. So this'}, {'start': '920.240', 'end': '925.040', 'text': 'is something that in my research lab we'}, {'start': '922.639', 'end': '927.519', 'text': 'are not uh actively researching but'}, {'start': '925.040', 'end': '930.079', 'text': 'there are other research teams that uh'}, {'start': '927.519', 'end': '932.720', 'text': 'show for specific systems how indeed'}, {'start': '930.079', 'end': '936.560', 'text': 'they can lead to discriminatory outcomes'}, {'start': '932.720', 'end': '938.959', 'text': 'and uh also try to outline solution'}, {'start': '936.560', 'end': '941.519', 'text': 'vectors on how we can at least improve'}, {'start': '938.959', 'end': '944.000', 'text': 'the situation to a certain degree. How'}, {'start': '941.519', 'end': '947.519', 'text': 'can we make these regulations like we'}, {'start': '944.000', 'end': '949.560', 'text': "can tell the AI that don't go there or"}, {'start': '947.519', 'end': '952.800', 'text': "don't go over those topics that are"}, {'start': '949.560', 'end': '954.959', 'text': 'discriminatory or how can we make that'}, {'start': '952.800', 'end': '957.680', 'text': 'technology regulated'}, {'start': '954.959', 'end': '959.519', 'text': 'uh regulation can step in at different'}, {'start': '957.680', 'end': '962.320', 'text': 'levels right so it can be very high'}, {'start': '959.519', 'end': '964.959', 'text': 'level uh but it can be also very'}, {'start': '962.320', 'end': '967.360', 'text': 'specific and even mandate very concrete'}, {'start': '964.959', 'end': '971.279', 'text': 'technologies right so the design space'}, {'start': '967.360', 'end': '976.240', 'text': 'for regulation is also uh quite diverse'}, {'start': '971.279', 'end': '979.440', 'text': 'and very wide. So um so this certainly'}, {'start': '976.240', 'end': '983.040', 'text': 'can find application in many of these um'}, {'start': '979.440', 'end': '985.600', 'text': 'AI scenarios. However uh as we have also'}, {'start': '983.040', 'end': '987.519', 'text': 'seen today in the talk this is parts of'}, {'start': '985.600', 'end': '989.759', 'text': 'the problem. There are such diverse'}, {'start': '987.519', 'end': '992.279', 'text': 'application scenarios even something'}, {'start': '989.759', 'end': '994.880', 'text': 'like recognizing emotions other'}, {'start': '992.279', 'end': '997.279', 'text': 'characteristics in portrays of human'}, {'start': '994.880', 'end': '999.120', 'text': 'persons can be used in many different'}, {'start': '997.279', 'end': '1002.800', 'text': 'context leading to many different'}, {'start': '999.120', 'end': '1006.000', 'text': 'concerns. So one key problem that u'}, {'start': '1002.800', 'end': '1008.240', 'text': 'regulation has to face is that it needs'}, {'start': '1006.000', 'end': '1010.079', 'text': 'to be aware of these different'}, {'start': '1008.240', 'end': '1012.160', 'text': 'application context and come up with'}, {'start': '1010.079', 'end': '1016.000', 'text': 'sensible rules. So the approach in'}, {'start': '1012.160', 'end': '1019.519', 'text': 'Europe in the EU AI act is largely to do'}, {'start': '1016.000', 'end': '1022.160', 'text': 'some kind of risk classification. So the'}, {'start': '1019.519', 'end': '1024.400', 'text': 'u to identify a specific technology how'}, {'start': '1022.160', 'end': '1026.559', 'text': 'it works and how it is being used in a'}, {'start': '1024.400', 'end': '1029.120', 'text': 'particular context and what level of'}, {'start': '1026.559', 'end': '1032.559', 'text': 'risk is associated with it and based on'}, {'start': '1029.120', 'end': '1034.640', 'text': 'the level of risk then a certain type of'}, {'start': '1032.559', 'end': '1037.120', 'text': 'regulation then essentially applies.'}, {'start': '1034.640', 'end': '1039.679', 'text': 'Okay for to start concluding uh what'}, {'start': '1037.120', 'end': '1043.760', 'text': 'skills a student would you encourage'}, {'start': '1039.679', 'end': '1047.120', 'text': 'them to have to apply ethics in his work'}, {'start': '1043.760', 'end': '1050.960', 'text': 'with AI? So first maybe more generally I'}, {'start': '1047.120', 'end': '1052.960', 'text': 'I strongly encourage uh uh students and'}, {'start': '1050.960', 'end': '1054.960', 'text': 'uh young people in general to to learn'}, {'start': '1052.960', 'end': '1057.919', 'text': 'about these technologies and engage with'}, {'start': '1054.960', 'end': '1060.000', 'text': 'them. So like 20 30 years ago uh'}, {'start': '1057.919', 'end': '1063.200', 'text': 'learning programming languages of course'}, {'start': '1060.000', 'end': '1065.760', 'text': 'was a great way to really understand how'}, {'start': '1063.200', 'end': '1069.280', 'text': 'software is being built and maybe then'}, {'start': '1065.760', 'end': '1072.080', 'text': 'become part of this economy um later on'}, {'start': '1069.280', 'end': '1075.280', 'text': 'right in their professional lives. So'}, {'start': '1072.080', 'end': '1077.600', 'text': 'however one should go beyond being a'}, {'start': '1075.280', 'end': '1080.160', 'text': 'more or less informed consumer of these'}, {'start': '1077.600', 'end': '1083.320', 'text': 'technologies. So it is important to'}, {'start': '1080.160', 'end': '1086.640', 'text': 'understand at the very least how these'}, {'start': '1083.320', 'end': '1090.000', 'text': 'technologies can support an individual'}, {'start': '1086.640', 'end': '1092.799', 'text': 'to make them better right and better is'}, {'start': '1090.000', 'end': '1095.520', 'text': 'broadly construed. So for example, a'}, {'start': '1092.799', 'end': '1099.440', 'text': 'technology like generative AI should not'}, {'start': '1095.520', 'end': '1101.480', 'text': 'lead to an outcome where we as people uh'}, {'start': '1099.440', 'end': '1104.400', 'text': 'are losing certain'}, {'start': '1101.480', 'end': '1106.960', 'text': 'skills such as in particular our problem'}, {'start': '1104.400', 'end': '1109.679', 'text': 'solving skills. So the more we delegate'}, {'start': '1106.960', 'end': '1111.679', 'text': 'to these technologies, the more we may'}, {'start': '1109.679', 'end': '1114.000', 'text': 'lose our own capabilities to even'}, {'start': '1111.679', 'end': '1116.640', 'text': 'advance these technologies ourselves,'}, {'start': '1114.000', 'end': '1118.480', 'text': 'which maybe is a rarer case. But at the'}, {'start': '1116.640', 'end': '1121.520', 'text': 'very least we need to be capable to'}, {'start': '1118.480', 'end': '1123.760', 'text': 'evaluate what these systems tell us. So'}, {'start': '1121.520', 'end': '1126.720', 'text': 'we need to be competent enough to'}, {'start': '1123.760', 'end': '1128.720', 'text': 'evaluate these results uh to reject them'}, {'start': '1126.720', 'end': '1131.280', 'text': 'also. So this kind of level of'}, {'start': '1128.720', 'end': '1134.240', 'text': 'competence is just needed in order to'}, {'start': '1131.280', 'end': '1137.120', 'text': 'interact with these um systems in an'}, {'start': '1134.240', 'end': '1139.520', 'text': 'augmenting way and thereby not being'}, {'start': '1137.120', 'end': '1142.559', 'text': 'displaced by the technology. Partly'}, {'start': '1139.520', 'end': '1144.799', 'text': 'because that can take over tasks but'}, {'start': '1142.559', 'end': '1147.679', 'text': 'what I personally find more worrisome'}, {'start': '1144.799', 'end': '1150.559', 'text': 'that we are not willing right to put'}, {'start': '1147.679', 'end': '1153.520', 'text': 'ourselves in a a situation where we can'}, {'start': '1150.559', 'end': '1156.160', 'text': 'do more interesting better more engaging'}, {'start': '1153.520', 'end': '1159.200', 'text': 'and more high quality output together'}, {'start': '1156.160', 'end': '1161.280', 'text': 'with these systems. Yeah. Thank you Dr.'}, {'start': '1159.200', 'end': '1164.160', 'text': "Yens. It's been an honor to have someone"}, {'start': '1161.280', 'end': '1167.280', 'text': 'with your curriculum. Thank you for your'}, {'start': '1164.160', 'end': '1170.000', 'text': 'time. Yeah. Thank you. If you have a'}, {'start': '1167.280', 'end': '1172.160', 'text': 'project or your social networks, you can'}, {'start': '1170.000', 'end': '1173.760', 'text': 'tell them. Uh we are going to put it in'}, {'start': '1172.160', 'end': '1175.919', 'text': 'the description of the video and the'}, {'start': '1173.760', 'end': '1179.120', 'text': 'description of the podcast. Sure, that'}, {'start': '1175.919', 'end': '1182.320', 'text': 'would be great. Yeah. How do we we could'}, {'start': '1179.120', 'end': '1184.799', 'text': 'find you in um maybe you can put us in'}, {'start': '1182.320', 'end': '1187.280', 'text': 'contact. Um because for example, we have'}, {'start': '1184.799', 'end': '1190.240', 'text': 'now a quite beautiful website for the'}, {'start': '1187.280', 'end': '1192.960', 'text': 'global AI dialogues. Okay. Um that could'}, {'start': '1190.240', 'end': '1194.799', 'text': 'be linked, right? Um but also the'}, {'start': '1192.960', 'end': '1199.039', 'text': 'research papers that I talked about'}, {'start': '1194.799', 'end': '1200.960', 'text': 'today. um I could look at and uh um'}, {'start': '1199.039', 'end': '1202.400', 'text': 'various other things. All right. So'}, {'start': '1200.960', 'end': '1204.400', 'text': 'there there will be in the description'}, {'start': '1202.400', 'end': '1206.080', 'text': 'of this video. Thank you for your'}, {'start': '1204.400', 'end': '1207.280', 'text': 'attention. Thank you for your time. Also'}, {'start': '1206.080', 'end': '1209.200', 'text': 'thank you for your time and your'}, {'start': '1207.280', 'end': '1211.600', 'text': 'presence here. We invite you to follow'}, {'start': '1209.200', 'end': '1215.440', 'text': 'to stemfire on YouTube, Spotify and'}, {'start': '1211.600', 'end': '1217.679', 'text': 'Instagram. You can find us and stem good'}, {'start': '1215.440', 'end': '1222.039', 'text': 'in Instagram. Thank you. Thank you'}, {'start': '1217.679', 'end': '1222.039', 'text': 'professor. Thank you.'}]