Our Aviation Sales and Marketing Book Club  discusses one book each month, selected by members. This month’s book was Trust, Belief, Influence and Rapport.


The shortest book we’re reading this year was also one of the most powerful, once I got over my prejudices!

John & Paula Williams, David Pearl and Mickey Gamonal share OUR experiences after trying some of these “tricks” on our prospects, customers (and even aviation court case jurors!)



Michael Gamonal: All right, cool. Well, let us start with pitches and then we will jump into this book. My name is Michael Gamonal with Gamonal Tutors ASVAB Domination of anybody is joining the military and it is helped with the ASVAB. You can find me on Facebook, Tick-Tock, and Instagram.

Paula Williams: Fantastic. Paula Williams with ABCI.  We help aviation companies sell more of their products and services with marketing services and sales training.

John: I knew the backend stuff are we get a business client in the needs of the consulting I will consider that.

Dave Pearl: Okay. Hi. I am Dave Pearl. I am with the flywriter.com. I helped put words to the messages that aviation businesses want to convey. I like to say that I give wings to the message that they want. You can reach me at [email protected]

Michael: Awesome. Cool. Today we are talking during ABCI’s business book club. Today we are talking about Trust, Belief, Influence, and Rapport. Thirteen ways to open minds by talking to the subconscious mind. The subtitles totally freaky, right? Talking to the subconscious mind, but overall, personally I will lead off with what I thought of the book. I liked it a lot. I like that it is very short. It is like booklet length.

It is 86 pages, 88 pages. That is super easy to read, you can knock it out in an afternoon. I felt it was pretty powerful in my opinion. I thought that the pages were not wasted, there was not a ton of fluff. I also felt like it gave me a lot of insight into how best to sell my products and services. How about you ma’am, what do you think?

Paula: Well, first impressions, I have a prejudice against– well, whenever I look at a sales book I think, okay, well, that is fine for retail but it will never work in aviation. So that is one part is that I bring and another prejudice is that I love the hefty Franklin Covey kind of books. So you are looking at a thin book that is written by somebody that specializes in MLM and talking about what I would on the surface called cheap tricks. So that was the prejudice that I drive into the book. Having read it, and I am also reading the biography of Benjamin Franklin at the same time, which is weird coincidence, but reading some of the stuff that he was writing as letters to these counts in France and stuff like that, during the revolutionary war and just to real quick story.

Michael: Yes.

Paula: In American history, the revolutionary war was pretty much won by the French. If Lafayette and his buds had not come in and save the day and they had not gotten a lot of money to pay the American troops about halfway through the war, it would not have gone the way that it was and we would still be British, right? A lot of that is due to Benjamin Franklin and the influence that he had as Louis XVI court. So he was, you could say these are cheap tricks that only work on stupid people. Actually reading this book and doing, oh my gosh that is exactly what he was doing and it worked. John Adams and other people were saying, he does not even speak French very well. He is not wearing the right clothes. He is not representing the United States very well, but he sure was influencing those people to write checks. I mean, looking back on it now, I am going, how did he do that? It was actually using a lot of the same techniques that are in this book. We all agree on the things. Most people believe this and most people believe that we are endowed by our creator, and all of those things that kind of come together. It changed my mind which is hard to do. I am actually much more impressed with the book today than I was three weeks ago before I actually dug into it and also dug into thinking about some of these tricks, and how they have been used in different times in history and they can be used for good or evil and he tells you that. So that is a yes. Anyway, first impression.

Michael: Cool. Very good. Very good. Go ahead, John.

John: It looks to me like it was a page figuratively speaking out of one of the sales courses would like to years ago. I have probably taken most of the major sales courses in the US at least, not because that is what I want to do it just because that is the way things work out. This one would my life insurance company. It was two weeks, and on the last day when we left. The gym it was running the course and now here is what I want you do when you leave this building. He says, “Somewhere in the sidewalk you find a small stone, you pick it up, toss it up in the air, and whichever way it goes, you go that way and every person you meet yourself, it works. Not the snow in, well, what I mean is, what they taught which was using this book. I sold every person I met until I was start of talking to people all the way back to the court.

A lot of people probably could not afford it, probably did not need it, but I sold it. To me looking back on that is pretty darn amazing.

Paula: Mm-hmm.

John: Now because everybody else in class did the same thing, I did not talk to anybody else after that, but I am quite sure they all have the same [inaudible].

Michael: Well, that is what is why that people go into that all the time. People will buy things that they cannot afford all the freaking time.

John: Which is not my problem.

Michael: Right. Right. It is not something that you could prevent even if you try…

John: I mean, it is an ism as a sales guy, not my problem. I did not like the ethics of that situation because I was selling people who could not afford it, so I did not do that anymore. Nonetheless, it was an interesting sales course and it, this is look like, I mean, may use the same terms and pasting and so on jump through just like we just took a day and a half out of that course and put it in that book.

Michael: For sure.

Paula: Right. So pasting, just to give a couple of examples. Where there any like, and Mickey also, were there any particular phrases that you found powerful. I know Mickey you and I had a conversation earlier about working some of these into the first couple of seconds of a cold call or working some of these into the first couple of seconds of a have a conversation, where there any particular phrases just to let the people know that have read the book how that worked for you?

Michael: I will go first John. That is all right.

Paula: Yes.

Michael: As a general synopsis like this page kind of covers everything.

Paula: I know. That is kind of cool that they summarize the whole thing in one page.

Michael: Yes. I love it when books do this because it really makes the point that like, this is our information and I am a math guy. So I really like it. I like examples and very clear and concise statements, but it looks like mostly its facing, smile at people and then the magic phrases are going to be number five, six, seven, eight, and nine. So those are basically you say, “Oh, most people do this, and everybody knows that, everybody says this.” Then well, you know how. Well, you know how everybody needs air copywriter or something along those lines, or there is an old saying that if do not make dollars, do not make sense. Whatever phrases you want to use or whatever statements you want to use, you put these words in front of them and supposedly itself. It resonates. It does not necessarily sell but it definitely resonates, right? If you say, most people need help with math. Most people will agree with that.

Paula: Right.

Michael: There is people start like you start to feel it nodding your head and then if you are smiling more often, that helps too. Everybody know, everybody says, everybody…

Paula: Everybody knows that if you smile more often.

Michael: Right. It is just hard not to string all of the magic because you read it and then you start stringing them all together because that is kind of like well last exercises. Yes, for me, I really like most people and everybody knows. I like both of those because I think especially when it comes to ASVAB tutoring what I do, people come with me to me with a lot of shame. They are really embarrassed of how they acted in high school, how they did not learn, how they cannot pass this test, it was written for seventh grade, da-da-da. So when I start to say everybody most people and use those types of phrases, there is a certain level of comfort that comes up. Like, oh, it is okay, all right…

Paula: Yes.

Michael: Exactly. Everybody knows having a tutor will help you. Everybody knows it is hard to study. That is what killed me in the very beginning of the book is if somebody is talking to you it is because they want to do business with you. Really all you are doing is talking yourself out of a sale. Nine times out of ten and at least in my experience, I probably have like a twenty percent, ten percent close rate, nothing, nothing miraculous by any means, but I have a have a program that I really believe in. I have something that I know, makes a difference if they stick with it show up. Yes. I know that I am talking myself out of sales, so I know using this more would help me more. Yes. Those are some of the phrases and things that stuck out to me. How about you, John?

John: Not sure, I mean, the problem is my mom raised me to ignore all those phrases and think the people that use them, [inaudible] think for yourself and because somebody else, everybody else, or best selling, everything else, does not matter. Think it through, do your research, and then do what you got to do. Does not help likely the majority of people. There are some of us they say they expected more than just me. I mean, when I go somewhere somebody whilst our best selling it but I really do not give a shit. I do not care what best selling is talk to me about it is private, tell me about the product.

Paula: Yes.

John: Tell me about its capabilities, talk to me about that, how decide it is best selling me, you will not. All you are going to do is turn me off. I have that baggage door. That is probably not a good one to say that I have I use some of those things that you do those things from one time or another, but I pick and choose where use them.

Paula: Yes. I think that is kind of a caution sign for people in the aviation industry, you do not want to use too many of these and you do not want to but what they are talking about is like the first 15 minutes of working with somebody, you have to be able to back that all up with all the charts and graphs and data and everything else and so forth and so on but if you summarize at the beginning and the end of the conversation just like Mickey was saying, having a summary once you already are, yes, this is what I read in this book now here it is all summed up for me, that just saves me time and energy and we all need that, right?

John: I read somewhere or we had something somewhere that says you have 7 seconds to sell yourself.

Paula: Yes.

John: You have got seven course and your part of are doing that, of course, seven seconds is selling the next seven seconds. So you have got to do this for first couple of minutes before they say, oh, it is got on real.

Paula: Yes. Then you can drag out the track load and data.

John: Yes, then you can do all this other stuff.

Paula: Right. Dave, what do you think? I know you are a writer, so of course, word choices is huge especially in that first headline or opening paragraph.

Dave: Right. I mean, I am thinking the only thing I can relate this process to is, my days as an attorney because I did not sell things, products, things like that. What I tried to sell was either a concept, the concept being we are right or we are not as bad as you think we are a lot of times in cases, it was a win if you maybe you win into the case thinking that yes, we probably have about a third of the responsibility here, but the other side was saying no you got one hundred percent and the reason they wanted one hundred percent was because they could not get anything from anybody else. So they were targeting you. We would try to sell something that and present it as being reasonable. I heard, the plaintiff’s attorneys typically because I usually was on the defense side defending aviation company or a pilot sometimes. They were full of the histrionics of how bad, how ugly, how terrible what we did was, and these were bad things. You do not usually have an airplane crash and people are the same afterwards even if they survive. We had to deal with a lot of greatly things. The challenge was always not to make it sound like we did not do anything wrong, but to make it seem reasonable that what he did was if it is not forgivable at least it was understandable and to get the jury thinking along the lines of, hey, it could have been me that did this, this is not fifty million dollars that we are going to do, let us try to keep it some sort of reasonable tone, and so yes, I think that the way we would present that is, we would try to be even handed in our approach to, especially to the injured party, the widow or the mother who lost the child or whatever it was because that is the world that we were in, and it was not there was no way we could sugarcoat that hey, this is this is going to be comfortable. The plaintiff side would have pictures if there were survivors of horrible injuries with all kinds of ugly looking devices sticking out of the people and so we would just try to whether that and come on as we are the reasonable side here, bad things happen to good people and so forth and establishing trust in us. Meaning that we were not going to be the, I guess the charlatans that is we always tried to portray the Plano says the they are the fast talking carnival barker type guys, trying to raise the price, and we always try to present ourselves, as understanding, as reasonable, as trying to keep an even heal, trying to make a bad world, put some way for the other side to process that. Now, that is the way I have always tried to approach anything, from a reasonable you will use logic, use reason to get something across. I have always shied away from any sort of formulaic technique, start with this, and then you start with this, and you start with this. I do not know that I had ever be comfortable doing that.

Paula: Yes.

Michael: A proven three step process.

Dave: Yes, that alarms start going off in my ears when I hear that. I try to– you know, what the title of book, I know trust is in there and so forth and I think that the first way you establish trust is your presence. That is the first thing people are going to see is you, how are you standing there, the look in your eyes, and mannerisms and so forth, and that is what I have always tried to emphasize in, I guess, selling if that is what you want to call portraying, articulating a position that we you start with this is reasonable, this makes sense. I am more likely to get a positive determination from the person that I am trying to convince. Using that, I think that I would be saying, well, here is the bunch of, I could throw a lot of facts and so forth out there, but any case that I was involved in, there were always far too many facts for a person the reasonably process so it was always selection. What did I think were the most important things that we are going to help them make a decision?

Paula: Right.

Dave: So I do not know if that was pertinent to the discussion or not.

Paula: Oh, no, it was great. How long do you think you had with a juror before they had made up their mind? I mean, if you walked up in front of the jury for the first time, they see you for the first time. How long do you think you had and what did you do about that?

Dave: Well, it would depend on the nature of the trial, but jury selection at least in California had a chance to see it in Pennsylvania and it was much different there. The judges we appeared before and maybe they made a determination given how serious the case was. They gave us more time with the jury at one case where it took us three weeks to pick a jury. The guys that are going to be on the jury are witnessing you interacting with the other jury members, and I do not know that the Layman understands how important that process is because you are trying to establish who you are before the juror is ever in the box. You go through jury selection, you put, I do not know on a depending on how big the trial is going to be, how many people you think you are going to kick off. You will put 12 people in the box and you may have another 6, another 12 that are going to be alternates, because you think it is going to go for 6 weeks might go for 6months and you are going to lose people for various reasons. You may have to replace the whole jury by. We had one where, we put 6 new jurors in during the course of the trial. So you were trying to establish in the minds of everybody. I mean, the people that are out that have not even been called in the jury box because you, you know right away you are going to kick some people out that have been put in the box. It starts from the very first day that you are dealing with the juror as far as trying to establish who you are. You are trying to sell some points of the case, give everybody understanding of kind of where you are going by the questions that you are asking that you are in. Again, the judges in California, let us talk to the jurors directly. In Pennsylvania, the judge interviewed the juries and maybe you could talk to the judge say, judge, could you raise this question, but he would not allow us to talk to the juries, jurors individually, so I think you do form an impression right away, immediately they are going to decide whether they kind of like you or they kind of do not, but it could be several days in my experience and sometimes it could be several weeks, before you ever get to opening statement. Then, it is, you have got a loaded gun. Every time you open your mouth that are maybe a gun to your head because I have seen, I saw attorneys completely turn off a juror or and multiple jurors with the way they would question somebody.

Paula: Yes.

Dave: The way they would have to like very seasoned attorney made a sexist. Well, even you could understand this could not you and I thought he lost the jury at that point. That was, we were not even two days into the trial.

Paula: Right.

Dave: When we interviewed the jurors afterward because they found for us he said that that attorney put us down. He was talking about something that was a little sophisticated or something and he put down the witness who the jurors loved and well, even you like you idiot. Even somebody like you could understand that and they found for us.

Michael: Well, see and I feel like that is the inverse of most people or everybody knows, right? To say, even you should do this. That it is the opposite, right? So it is, I think there is actually a lot that you are saying that comes the coincides with this book.

Paula: Exactly.

Michael: Even though, like what you are saying is you try to be very logic base. I completely agree, but the thing most, when you say the word most people or everyone knows you are trying to be logic based, too, right? It is just a different method of using that logic in my opinion that is the way it seems to me.

Paula: One thing that you said hit me, as super relevant from the book because his Big AI. The guy that wrote the book said and that is another thing to turn you off was the Big Al.

Michael: Yes. This guy [crosstalk/inaudible].

Paula: Sounds great. Some very called Big Al, it is not somebody that I try straight out of that. It turns out much better than I thought it was. One point he talks about the physical sensation of words bouncing off the prospect forehead. You can tell when that starts to happen, when you have turned them off or when the opposite of that is when they start to nod along with you and they start to get it and they start to go. Okay. This guy kind of gets me, I am going to at least give him a fair hearing. There is a point in every conversation and it is usually within in the first 7 seconds or 15 seconds or whatever timeframe it is not long. Before his either decided his going to resist or his going to hear you out. I think that is exactly what this book is good for is that first 7 to 15 seconds after that you are on your own. What do you think? Yes, good ahead.

Michael: I would agree that hearing someone out, again, just like you said if they are talking to you and you are hearing them out this because they are hoping that you can solve their problem. If they are hearing you out you probably already made your sale. I think it is very short ridge to cross from getting that trust to just selling it because they are talking to you, they want what you have. If they are listening to you and they believe you, that is it. I feel like there is very little left to do at that point. How about you, John?

John: Yes. I listen to what you all have to say. It was right. What you said there I said, I [inaudible] that on one jury. I was quite interested to hear what you had to say but respect all that because I experienced all that. Toward the end of the jury selection what is in this case, it was own my buddy, it took two weeks to select the jury. The idea that when they took the last jury that great now we get on with it and he said, “Mr. Williams. Sir. Would you have a problem being the, what they call it?”

Paula: Deployment.

John: Deployment and said, “Right on that, nobody else.” What I am going to say. I have never done this before. What was very interesting was it 6 weeks later, we had a hung jury. The other than to say, this is not on top of the book, this is not on top of sale because people in there have to sell their opinion to other people.

Paula: The jury have to sell the other jurors?

John: You bet.

Paula: Yes.

John: It is a real sales opportunity and people’s lives hang in the balance, so like people who do not realize it. Sometimes they do. Some people mind is so made up, hard over yes or no, guilty or not guilty, then it does not matter what anybody said. That is what happened marketing is.

Paula: So you ran into some slammed shut doors of the jurors that you could not get passed.

John: No, nobody could.

Paula: Yes.
John: No, no man of logic and we call for evidence to be brought in to talk about stuff with a little while. Just as there was no way, I mean, this person should never been on a jury because this person really failed to even consider the possibility of the alternative. I mean, it just like, that part of her brain did not function.

Paula: I wonder if that person had been predisposed because of something that somebody said, they are not going to believe this witness or they are not going to believe this defendant or whatever because of one of these things that came from the book.

John: I know but I saw several things take place in there now that I am older and look back. There was the sale thing going on but if you have ever watched the Waterfront moving, could that tells you how, it is all about a jury trial. It is all about facilitation and how you as a former are supposed to make sure everybody’s get their say and guided ultimately toward a conclusion. I will be a lot better at today, but anyway. Does the selling was just your back and just amazed because even then I sat there in a minute and I see all these people. Some people who just jump out without any hesitation and say their position of why and some of them would try to do about what this book says and sat that within.

Paula: Yes.

John: Actually, I do not know that I still need difference with respect. Some people after a couple of days, three or four days, five days, six days, various people would say, “Oh, I thought about that part, finally something sort of quick.”

Paula: Right.

John: Then this last person, I mean, we take another vote and it was always no.

Paula: The more they dig in, the more they dig in.

John: [inaudible].

Paula: Interesting. Yes.

John: With respect to sales, I mean, that was before some of the sales courses I went through, but…

Paula: Being a better salesperson actually would make you a better citizen I think because [crosstalk/inaudible].

John: [inaudible] you are selling everything, when you talk to somebody you are selling your thoughts, your position, what you want, I mean, does not matter. So are they?

Paula: Yes, exactly.

John: It is a give and take. Even if not trying to sell a product or service, you are selling a thought. It is all about sales and most people realize that. Being an attorney, I know you realize it. You may use the word convinced but it is telling them the left.

Dave: Yes, I mean, you had to sell your client, you had to sell the judge, you had to had to sell the jury, so.

Michael: Yes. Dave, the way you were talking about jury selection and just reminded me so much of growth mindset when it comes to clients. Jury selection you really you just watched swap the guy out. [inaudible] people out and that is powerful. This book does not talk about how many people want what you have to sell, this book talks about how to just sell to anyone.

Paula: Yes. It is very specific which I love.

Michael: Yes. I think there is a lot to be said for exactly what you were talking about where there is just. There are more people, there is always more people, and that is really powerful. It is a powerful frame of mind to be in, for sure.

Dave: Right. The way it work, I mean, it is different from state to state and probably from courtroom to courtroom, the attorneys go in with the trial judge ahead of time and you kind of establish the parameters. How many– for cost you have unlimited. Somebody comes in and says they will not listen to the judge, you get dinged, the judge dings them and then each side typically has a number of peremptory challenges they can make, they do not have to state their reason, that is a matter of her that a lot of civil or social commentators are talking about because you can construct a jury. I have got five black people on the jury, I have got challenges, I will challenge them all. So you can shape the jury but at least as it stands right now, you are allowed to do that. You do not have to have a reason, say, no. I just like to think and dismiss but you only have maybe three, I think the most we ever had was 6 and so you get to choose them to get rid of them, but there is always a risk that the person that comes in will be worse or at least from your view, worse for you than before. There is jury research, they all fill out a questionnaire and you get the questionnaires to read through, but every single jury trial that I had, I did not have that many, 5, 6, whatever it was. We got a chance to talk to the jurors afterwards and you would pigeonhole, you can have all these notes that yes, this juror is this, he will be good for us or she will be bad for us. I just remember that trial, I was talking about where the guy totally, the plaintiff’s attorney totally, or that the jury on the wrong, but we had, there was one juror we said this juror hates us. She is not going to support because the body language the way she was looking at us and so forth, we thought, God, she is going to be leading the charge for the other side.

When we questioned them, we won the case and so as I am as a matter of we took the whole jury out to lunch. I mean, not a big challenger or something like that we were win, we invited him out to lunch. She said, because it was 12 in our favor and all that stuff and I do not know that everybody came but she did.

Paula: Wow.
Dave: So we had a chance to talk with them you away from the courtroom and few libations, and things like that. She said man, I was on your side from day one.

Michael: Wow.

Dave: We said, God, we sure did not read it that way. You cannot always tell and but it was a very interesting process and the things that we thought were important about a case, I swore I had the closest thing to a slam dunk across examination of a witness, man that proves my whole case right there. I went out feeling so good about that thing and they came back in our favor, and we ask them, ask the jury after. So what did you decide the case and they came up with some reason that was completely different than what we thought case turned on. So I asked the jury, “So what about this point?” We do not even remember that.

Paula: I do not remember that. Oh my gosh.

Dave: I went out thinking, man, I was slapping 5, yes, we got the guy to say what exactly what I wanted to say. Man, we won the case. Yes, we won but not for that reason.

Paula: Right. Well, I think a lot of especially in aviation, the salespeople are so specialized, and they think oh, well, this is my strongest point. This is the absolute way that we totally beat the competition and so I am going to harp on this, at length and width charts and graphs and da-da-da. They do not pay enough attention to this first 15 seconds, and I guess the analogy to a jury for sales, the sales process is your top 10, right? So you have got your top ten but you are working through and kind of qualifying and going. Well, his likely, he looks unlikely, but until you get a yes no or not yet, and you have to be objective, and curious about these people because I have been surprised so many times, making a sale to somebody that I thought was just grouchy and looking– making me justify every single thing, whereas some people who were nodding and smiling the whole time turned out to be no sales and I would not spend an awful lot of time with somebody that I thought like me and turned out to be a complete opposite, either they were not qualified or they were just a good actor, whatever, I do not know but something. Yes.

Dave: It certainly pays to not take yourself too seriously and be more open to what the feedback that you are getting and you prove that feedback to make sure that what you think you are getting is what they are sending.

Paula: Right. All thing those hatches, right?

Dave: Right.

John: I know what very, [inaudible] I know what the thing is, I know was we really looking for by purchasing your product and then hammered out if you can.

Paula: Yes.

Michael: It is a good point. Good point. Being client focused is key. Even though this is all about being, not client, be everyone focused, right?

Paula: Yes.

Michael: So I just want to kind of wrap with basically the paragraph that I created using his phrases. I do not know if anybody out, ma’am, do you have some? I know that you are studious and everything, I do not know if you wrote stuff down for like how you would snatch his words and use them in your business.

Paula: I have got about 6 different paragraphs that I am still kind of working on or different products of our so I am not really– they are not really at the point of sharing but I will do that in the blog post for this article.

Michael: Cool.

Paula: Yes. No, I would love to hear your so, that is cool.

Michael: Cool. Yes. I was going to– what I tell my students and I do not say this verbatim, but I wrote it down so that I could have something to kind of fall back on because you, the thing is you fall back to your highest level of preparation, right? You do not actually– the adrenaline does not work, unless you have practice.

Paula: Right.

Michael: That is what the adrenaline works. What I have written down is most people struggle with math knowledge and arithmetic reasoning which are two of the main sub tests that most people do struggle with. Everybody knows books and videos are online for free, but most people need more help. There is most people. Everyone who takes my class increases their confidence in the four key subjects. Those are my sentences. The other thing that I decided I would use is most people who enroll in my program start with the booklet, and then join my main program. I am going with that because I feel like that is a much easier sell because it is a lower price value. Honestly, it might not offers much value. Either way I am still working on it too, but I think spending time with this booklet did help me as far as becoming a better sales person overall.

Paula: Right. His really applied it to your pipeline.

Michael: Oh, yes. Yes. Absolutely. I try t to write a new email every month, especially when it is coming up on a new month to start a new class to send out to all the subscribers that I have gained over the years, over the months. Yes. So I send that out and I am trying to implement more of these phrases. Because I do think they are actually pretty good. I think they are pretty solid.

Paula: Right. We started working with a AI tool that does copywriting and I have noticed that it includes a lot of these phrases and the reason that that is interesting is because it takes, for example, if you ask it for 10 Facebook posts on a topic, it will use some interpretation of some data of these are the best performing Facebook post about this topic and they have a lot of these phrases in them. I just thought that was interesting as well. It kind of a neat tie into two last week topic and yes, David do not be scared, this is not something that is going to replace a real copywriter anytime soon but the neat thing about it is you can take a really good sale of letter and then ask it for Instagram posts or Facebook posts or tweets or something that specific and it does a pretty good job of chopping up something that is already good writing and making it the right format and emphasizing the right topics and things like that for that platform. It is a machine so it is good at dealing with machines.

Dave: Well, machines could fly the plane better than I could. I remember that.

Paula: Pretty good.

Michael: Cool. Any final words on the book? Anything else that anybody wants to add or is it general idea, anything, anybody else?

Paula: I am feeling a little bit better about sales calls, because it is the first 15 seconds that usually kills me. I am usually great once I get past the brick wall, but the brick wall is the hardest part for me is getting pass that brick wall. So this was very specifically about that problem and I am really excited that we have a very specific solution to that very specific problems. That is cool.

Michael: Cool. Yes and then next, well, three, two weeks from now it is going to be secrets of a master closer. That should be, hopefully, the other ninety percent of the call. So who will see, [inaudible].

Paula: It will be a longer book, I am sure. It is a longer book. Actually, it is not that much longer. It is a hundred and seventy five pages before the appendices and so forth, so.

John: So double going.
Paula: Double going.

Michael: So two afternoons.

Paula: Two afternoons, yes, not too bad.

Michael: Cool. Well, I am going to pitch out, everyone is good. That is right. My name is Michael Gamonal with ASVAB Domination. Everybody knows it is easier with the tutor. Most people who join my program get a lot out of it. There is an old saying, you will not start making progress towards your goals until you have skin in the game. Invest in a tutor and you might be able to see those dreams come true, if you are looking for ASVAB or any other any other stuff. So Gamonal Tutors, let me know if you need me. Thanks.

Paula: Fantastic. Paula Williams with ABCI. Everybody knows that it is hard to make sales in the aviation industry these days, but most people could benefit from some proven tools and techniques, and some good networking with good people who are reading good books and making some good progress.

Michael: Awesome.

John: Well then, I work for her and he was back in processes around here, so I watch that.

Paula: By the time they get to you, we have already gotten through the brick wall.

John: That is right.

Paula: That is cool.

Michael: Cool. Go ahead David.

David: I am Dave Pearl at the flywriter.com. I write the words that give your message wings. We all have a message. We all can make it better. I will help you do that.

Paula: Fantastic.

Michael: It is very logical, very logical.

Paula: All right. Thanks everybody. That was a really, really good. I appreciate you being here. I appreciate you guys and your thoughts on this.

Dave: Nice seeing everybody again.

John: We will see you all next time.

Dave: All right. Buh-bye.

Michael: Okay. Buh-bye.