Tuesday, 2 September 2008

Palin and the gender agenda.












  1. There is no such thing as a 'pro-life' feminist.

    I disagree with you there. I don't think Palin is one, but I'm pretty sure I am.

  2. Well, if that's how you want to define feminism, fair enough. It's not as though we have any hope of reaching consensus on what such a charged word means, anyway.

    But what term do you use for people who have a feminist position on everything except abortion? It's a coherent position, and one that deserves to be separated from simple misogyny.

    As for Palin: what has most outraged me is the sexism in reactions from nominally progressive pundits.

    But you're right: US politics is a distraction best ignored.

  3. elise - how do you define that?

    If you define that as being personally against the notion of abortion, as I've said, fine by me. But if you'd legislate against it, I'd say that's not feminist.

    On what grounds do you call yourself a feminist if you're 'pro-life'?

  4. "Let me make one thing absolutely and abundantly and categorically clear. There is no such thing as a 'pro-life' feminist."

    Really? How do you explain groups like the below then?


    And yes, they do define themselves as feminist.

  5. I don't think that at the moment legislating against abortion will be an effective measure in reducing it, but there are certainly situations in which I would support it.

    I call myself a feminist because I support equality between all genders wherever possible. The thing about reproductive rights is that it simply isn't possible because (bio)women get pregnant and (bio)men don't. You can't make it so that men have the right to reproduce without a partner either, and yet that's rightly not seen as oppression.

    It's difficult, because the pro-life movement is so rife with misogyny, and you can tell from all the "she should have kept her legs shut" bullshit a lot of the people who claim to care about the lives of the unborn are just out to control women's sexuality. But it is still possible to think that the right to bodily autonomy is really really important, but that the right to life is more so.

  6. is she good enough to be vice president?

    hm....you can tell me...



  7. Sorry, answer me this...
    Aside from the mother who would be forced to have a child she doesn't want, what kind of life would the kid have?
    It's all very well being pro-life, but is a messed-up, unwanted life better to be created than one that is? And I don't mean planned, I mean that when the mother discovers she's pregnant she wants it, and doesn't hate the child and herself forever more because she is forced by some law laid down by the government regardless of individual rights to bring life into this world. She should have the right to say no.
    Your argument is that the bundle of cells has a right to life. It's a bundle of cells that could destroy someone's life and has a very strong chance of growing up knowing it's hated. I'm not, by any means saying that all children who are adopted etc are screwed up. Not by a long shot. But if every woman who got pregnant was forced to have that child, there'd be a lot more unhappiness.
    Think of it this way, everyone has one life which they get to live. In their one chance to live should they be forced to do things they don't want? (If it doesn't damage anyone outside them.)

    What you woud be doing is imposing your beliefs on others and taking away their choice, their life, and their happiness.

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