text: [{"Owner":"pathogen","Date":"2015-07-12T14:51:50Z","Content":"_lt_div class_eq__qt_mages_qt__gt_\n\t\t\t\n_lt_blockquote data-ipsquote_eq__qt__qt_ class_eq__qt_ipsQuote_qt_ data-ipsquote-contentcommentid_eq__qt_88834_qt_ data-ipsquote-contenttype_eq__qt_forums_qt_ data-ipsquote-contentclass_eq__qt_forums_Topic_qt_ data-ipsquote-contentid_eq__qt_4983_qt_ data-ipsquote-username_eq__qt_iiceman_qt_ data-cite_eq__qt_iiceman_qt_ data-ipsquote-timestamp_eq__qt_1436598385_qt__gt__lt_div_gt__lt_div_gt__lt_p_gt_Could we add a function to give names and tags to the playground demos?_lt_/p_gt__lt_/div_gt__lt_/div_gt__lt_/blockquote_gt__lt_p_gt_This would be excellent! Being able to mark things as _t_incomplete_t_ or as a _t_bug_t_ could easily separate these PGs from ones we want to show off or PGs which are a particular step in a tutorial._lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_blockquote data-ipsquote_eq__qt__qt_ class_eq__qt_ipsQuote_qt_ data-ipsquote-contentcommentid_eq__qt_88915_qt_ data-ipsquote-contenttype_eq__qt_forums_qt_ data-ipsquote-contentclass_eq__qt_forums_Topic_qt_ data-ipsquote-contentid_eq__qt_4983_qt_ data-ipsquote-username_eq__qt_jahow_qt_ data-cite_eq__qt_jahow_qt_ data-ipsquote-timestamp_eq__qt_1436707812_qt__gt__lt_div_gt__lt_div_gt__lt_p_gt_What about using the tags associated with a forum thread to classify the samples? For example_co_ for a given thread with the tags _qt_morphing_qt__co_ _qt_shadows_qt_ and _qt_animation_qt__co_ all PG references in it could have the same tags associated to them? That would be a first step._lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_I have no idea how to actually do this though..._lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_EDIT_dd_ another idea_dd_ referencing as _qt_solutions_qt_ the PG linked in posts marked as solved._lt_/p_gt__lt_/div_gt__lt_/div_gt__lt_/blockquote_gt__lt_p_gt_Oh! jahow beat me to my own reply._lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_I am happy to do some front-end dev if it is needed / wanted. HTML / CSS / Javascript type things._lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt__lt_a href_eq__qt_http_dd_//codepen.io/pathogen/_qt_ rel_eq__qt_external nofollow_qt__gt_Here is my codepen profile_lt_/a_gt_. I think that codepen could provide for some inspiration for functionality for the playground!_lt_/p_gt_\n\n\n\t\t\t\n\t\t_lt_/div_gt_\n\n\t\t_lt_div class_eq__qt_ipsI_qt__gt__lt_/div_gt__lt_/div_gt_"},{"Owner":"gryff","Date":"2015-07-12T16:54:31Z","Content":"_lt_div class_eq__qt_mages_qt__gt_\n\t\t\t\n_lt_blockquote data-ipsquote_eq__qt__qt_ class_eq__qt_ipsQuote_qt__gt__lt_div_gt_Update_dd_  YAY!   I was able to re-read some instructions from DK and understand things better at Azure... and I think I can get the goods._lt_/div_gt__lt_/blockquote_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_Wingy_co_ I had been saddened by your previous post when I read it on Saturday _lt_img src_eq__qt_http_dd_//www.html5gamedevs.com/uploads/emoticons/default_unsure.png_qt_ alt_eq__qt__dd_unsure_dd__qt__gt__dd__lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_blockquote data-ipsquote_eq__qt__qt_ class_eq__qt_ipsQuote_qt__gt__lt_div_gt_I give.  _lt_img src_eq__qt_http_dd_//www.html5gamedevs.com/uploads/emoticons/default_smile.png_qt_ alt_eq__qt__dd_)_qt_ srcset_eq__qt_http_dd_//www.html5gamedevs.com/uploads/emoticons/smile@2x.png 2x_qt_ width_eq__qt_20_qt_ height_eq__qt_20_qt__gt_  I_t_m pooped.  [Wingy lays down in the dirt and falls fast asleep.]_lt_/div_gt__lt_/blockquote_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_And_co_ I_t_m not quite sure where you are headed - _lt_strong_gt_but _lt_/strong_gt_this could be brilliant! _lt_img src_eq__qt_http_dd_//www.html5gamedevs.com/uploads/emoticons/default_smile.png_qt_ alt_eq__qt__dd_)_qt_ srcset_eq__qt_http_dd_//www.html5gamedevs.com/uploads/emoticons/smile@2x.png 2x_qt_ width_eq__qt_20_qt_ height_eq__qt_20_qt__gt_  (lost for the right superlative word _lt_img src_eq__qt_http_dd_//www.html5gamedevs.com/uploads/emoticons/default_ohmy.png_qt_ alt_eq__qt__dd_o_qt_ srcset_eq__qt_http_dd_//www.html5gamedevs.com/uploads/emoticons/ohmy@2x.png 2x_qt_ width_eq__qt_20_qt_ height_eq__qt_20_qt__gt_ )_lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_cheers_co_ gryff _lt_img src_eq__qt_http_dd_//www.html5gamedevs.com/uploads/emoticons/default_smile.png_qt_ alt_eq__qt__dd_)_qt_ srcset_eq__qt_http_dd_//www.html5gamedevs.com/uploads/emoticons/smile@2x.png 2x_qt_ width_eq__qt_20_qt_ height_eq__qt_20_qt__gt__lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt_\n\n\n\t\t\t\n\t\t_lt_/div_gt_\n\n\t\t_lt_div class_eq__qt_ipsI_qt__gt__lt_/div_gt__lt_/div_gt_"},{"Owner":"Wingnut","Date":"2015-07-12T18:38:58Z","Content":"_lt_div class_eq__qt_mages_qt__gt_\n\t\t\t\n_lt_p_gt_Brilliant?  I wouldn_t_t have chosen THAT word.  hah.  Maybe insane._lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_Well_co_ it seems I have obtained permission to distribute_co_ and DK was kind enough to provide all playground resource folders (/textures_co_ /scenes_co_ /scripts_co_ and /sounds)... all are included... in _lt_a href_eq__qt_http_dd_//urbanproductions.com/wingy/babylon/misc/bjs_pg_db_12JUL15.zip_qt_ rel_eq__qt_external nofollow_qt__gt_http_dd_//urbanproductions.com/wingy/babylon/misc/bjs_pg_db_12JUL15.zip_lt_/a_gt_   yay!   SOME copyrights might still be in-force.  Do not assume that any files included in this zip... are royalty-free or cleared for reuse by their creators._lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_Three DB files (different versions of the same db)... all the playground /subfolders_co_ and a small info file.  What a great box lunch_co_ eh?!_lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_If you grab a copy and make applications with it_co_ please share them.  Did you make a webpage from one of the db files?  Share it.  Did you add a tags field to each playground and stock it with tags_co_ and then re-make one or all db files?   Then share them_co_ please.  _lt_u_gt_Any_lt_/u_gt_ apps and/or db-touring systems created_co_ please show and tell.  Thanks! _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_If nothing else_co_ I_t_ll have a basic web page done in... oh... a month.  _lt_img src_eq__qt_http_dd_//www.html5gamedevs.com/uploads/emoticons/default_smile.png_qt_ alt_eq__qt__dd_)_qt_ srcset_eq__qt_http_dd_//www.html5gamedevs.com/uploads/emoticons/smile@2x.png 2x_qt_ width_eq__qt_20_qt_ height_eq__qt_20_qt__gt_  Let me know immediately... if there is anything wrong with the archive._lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_Again... that url is... _lt_a href_eq__qt_http_dd_//urbanproductions.com/wingy/babylon/misc/bjs_pg_db_12JUL15.zip_qt_ rel_eq__qt_external nofollow_qt__gt_http_dd_//urbanproductions.com/wingy/babylon/misc/bjs_pg_db_12JUL15.zip _lt_/a_gt__lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_Thanks DK!   Thanks supporters!   And a BIG THANKS to all you excellent playground demo makers!  Party on!_lt_/p_gt_\n\n\n\t\t\t\n\t\t_lt_/div_gt_\n\n\t\t_lt_div class_eq__qt_ipsI_qt__gt__lt_/div_gt__lt_/div_gt_"},{"Owner":"Wingnut","Date":"2015-07-12T22:26:02Z","Content":"_lt_div class_eq__qt_mages_qt__gt_\n\t\t\t\n_lt_p_gt_Hi again.  I am already having some fun with the new porta-pg db.  Notepad loads the json_co_ JS says the .json is corrupt_co_ .csv is just a text file_co_ and xml... well... it_t_s all good fun.  I have been torturing the online converters and viewers_co_ making most of them start crying._lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_But_co_ wanna have some fun learning xsl transforms/styles/templates... applied to the xml version?  I knew ya did.  First_co_ grab this._lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt__lt_a href_eq__qt_http_dd_//urbanproductions.com/wingy/babylon/misc/asXMLwithXSL.zip_qt_ rel_eq__qt_external nofollow_qt__gt_http_dd_//urbanproductions.com/wingy/babylon/misc/asXMLwithXSL.zip_lt_/a_gt__lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_Yep_co_ its just the xml version of the db... WITH a xsl style sheet installed in its first line.  So_co_ pgs3.xml... is _qt_templated-with_qt_ pgs3.xsl... and you can see the results.  Just load pgs3.xml into a (FF) browser... but have pgs3.xsl open in a text editor nearby. _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_FF only_co_ so far.  It didn_t_t work in IE for me.  Still figging.  It should show a list of the partitionKeys only._lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_See how the _t_template_t_ and the _t_select_t_ in the xsl... _t_filters_t_ and _t_wraps_t_ things?  Isn_t_t that cool?  XSL has LOTS of power to _qt_manipulate_qt_ the browser-displaying of pgs3.xml.  Do you think xsl could manipulate that xml SO DRASTICALLY... that it could turn it into a BJS scene?  I bet so_co_ but that_t_s just plain demented. _lt_img src_eq__qt_http_dd_//www.html5gamedevs.com/uploads/emoticons/default_smile.png_qt_ alt_eq__qt__dd_)_qt_ srcset_eq__qt_http_dd_//www.html5gamedevs.com/uploads/emoticons/smile@2x.png 2x_qt_ width_eq__qt_20_qt_ height_eq__qt_20_qt__gt__lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_Believe it or not_co_ by making the correct adjustments to pgs3.xsl_co_ you can display the xml as a GORGEOUS web table... full colors... nice fonts... links_co_ even include icons and widgets.  It CAN look just like a standard .html web page. _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_But it_t_s not one. It_t_s styled xml data... and while making it_co_ you will learn all about the power and speed of XSL._lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_Two good things in one!  Have fun!  If anyone _qt_rides along_qt_ on my adventures into xsl_co_ feel free to share your xsl with us.  They are small ascii files... and we can show and tell our templates to each other_co_ right?  The best xsl template wins 13 cents and my left sock!_lt_/p_gt_\n\n\n\t\t\t\n\t\t_lt_/div_gt_\n\n\t\t_lt_div class_eq__qt_ipsI_qt__gt__lt_/div_gt__lt_/div_gt_"},{"Owner":"gryff","Date":"2015-07-13T00:02:39Z","Content":"_lt_div class_eq__qt_mages_qt__gt_\n\t\t\t\n_lt_p_gt_Wingy_co_ I had a quick peak at the csv list. Tried various delimiters without  any success. Then just tried _qt_fixed width_qt_ which allowed me to see the script text as a block._lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_I then copied the JsonPayload for one Partition Key (10C9RV) and pasted it into Notepad++_co_ and removed all the \\n\\r\\ s_co_ cleaned out the _lt_em_gt__qt_JsonPayload_qt__dd_ _t_{_qt_code_qt__dd__qt__lt_/em_gt_ stuff _co_ then removed the \\s used to escape text strings_co_ and saved as a .js file._lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_Pasted the code back into the playground - _lt_a href_eq__qt_http_dd_//www.babylonjs-playground.com/#1MKTYT%231_qt_ rel_eq__qt_external nofollow_qt__gt_my first test_lt_/a_gt__lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_It worked fine - although it might get tedious doing it in this manual way with some of the larger scripts._lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_Looking forward to the methodologies that you are talking about._lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_cheers_co_ gryff _lt_img src_eq__qt_http_dd_//www.html5gamedevs.com/uploads/emoticons/default_smile.png_qt_ alt_eq__qt__dd_)_qt_ srcset_eq__qt_http_dd_//www.html5gamedevs.com/uploads/emoticons/smile@2x.png 2x_qt_ width_eq__qt_20_qt_ height_eq__qt_20_qt__gt__lt_/p_gt_\n\n\n\t\t\t\n\t\t_lt_/div_gt_\n\n\t\t_lt_div class_eq__qt_ipsI_qt__gt__lt_/div_gt__lt_/div_gt_"},{"Owner":"JCPalmer","Date":"2015-07-13T00:33:16Z","Content":"_lt_div class_eq__qt_mages_qt__gt_\n\t\t\t\n_lt_p_gt_Sorry to jump in at page 8 &amp_sm_ only read half that page.  Wingnut_t_s threads usually have more words than a slow reader can manage._lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_Just one thing to remember_dd_  some people may have used the playground_co_ never thinking their scenes might become publicly searchable.  On my iPad_co_ so I did not check for a use agreement.  They probably should not have saved_co_ but they did.  Probably no cases_co_ just a reminder._lt_/p_gt_\n\n\n\t\t\t\n\t\t_lt_/div_gt_\n\n\t\t_lt_div class_eq__qt_ipsI_qt__gt__lt_/div_gt__lt_/div_gt_"},{"Owner":"Wingnut","Date":"2015-07-13T02:03:43Z","Content":"_lt_div class_eq__qt_mages_qt__gt_\n\t\t\t\n_lt_p_gt_Interesting point_co_ jc.   Are they _qt_their_qt_ scenes?  Who owns each of our forum posts?  *scratch scratch*._lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_But yes_co_ I know what you mean_co_ Jc_co_ and thanks for the reminder. _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_Let_t_s hope nobody has an issue_co_ and if they ever do_co_ see if they can prove ownership. _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_But_co_ likely_co_ at the first sign of an issue_co_ we would just delete the disputed PG demo from all future distributions of the db.  What else can we do?  I guess we do our best to resolve it_co_ should a situation arise._lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_@gryff... hehe... a good old fashion PG hack-out with a machete_co_ eh?  Too fun.  Nicely done.  The _qt_goods_qt_ are not far from reach anymore_co_ are they?  I can smell them.  I love it.  I think we will see a few more _qt_code extractor apps_qt_ show-up soon.  I know there are some VERY GOOD data wranglers hanging around here... maybe some of the best in the world._lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_Here_t_s my latest XSL (not the one included in my most recent zip - but a newer one)... _lt_a href_eq__qt_http_dd_//urbanproductions.com/wingy/babylon/misc/pgs3.xsl_qt_ rel_eq__qt_external nofollow_qt__gt_http_dd_//urbanproductions.com/wingy/babylon/misc/pgs3.xsl_lt_/a_gt__lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_Active here_dd_  _lt_a href_eq__qt_http_dd_//urbanproductions.com/wingy/babylon/misc/pgs3.xml_qt_ rel_eq__qt_external nofollow_qt__gt_http_dd_//urbanproductions.com/wingy/babylon/misc/pgs3.xml_lt_/a_gt_   Still no IE.  Urls and files subject to change without notice._lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_Apply that xsl to your home xml db... for faster render.  Put the pgs3.xsl file into the same folder as your pgs.xml_co_ and make sure the top three lines of the xml... are_dd__lt_/p_gt__lt_pre class_eq__qt_ipsCode prettyprint_qt__gt_&lt_sm_?xml version_eq__qt_1.0_qt_ ?&gt_sm_&lt_sm_?xml-stylesheet type_eq__t_text/xsl_t_ href_eq__t_pgs3.xsl_t_?&gt_sm_&lt_sm_Entities xmlns_dd_xsi_eq__qt_http_dd_//www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance_qt_&gt_sm__lt_/pre_gt__lt_p_gt_The second line includes-in the XSL_co_ as you can see.  Easy._lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_Currently_co_ it_t_s just a giant_co_ slow-loading_co_ tags-free_co_ CLICKABLE list... filtered/munged via XSL.  It_t_s been a while since I wrote XSL.  I_t_m slooooow (actually stupid).  More soon.  Are we off-topic?  _dd_/_lt_/p_gt_\n\n\n\t\t\t\n\t\t_lt_/div_gt_\n\n\t\t_lt_div class_eq__qt_ipsI_qt__gt__lt_/div_gt__lt_/div_gt_"},{"Owner":"jahow","Date":"2015-07-13T08:58:30Z","Content":"_lt_div class_eq__qt_mages_qt__gt_\n\t\t\t\n_lt_p_gt_Hey guys_co__lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_I was thinking about this and thought_dd_ is it possible to design a better classification &amp_sm_ search system for the _lt_em_gt_existing playground demos_lt_/em_gt_ than this forum already is? I mean_co_ 90% of PG demos (at least the ones holding valuable knowledge) must be referenced in a post somewhere in here. Forum threads are easily searchable_co_ sometimes classified with tags. The 10% left would be referenced from another place_co_ StackOverflow maybe_co_ which is still easily accessible._lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_Why try to beat that?_lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_On another hand_co_ I agree that a _qt_user profile_qt_ system for the PG would be great_co_ as pathogen suggested_dd_ being able to save demos and access them later_co_ classify_co_ add explanations maybe... Although that would sure be some heavy work._lt_/p_gt_\n\n\n\t\t\t\n\t\t_lt_/div_gt_\n\n\t\t_lt_div class_eq__qt_ipsI_qt__gt__lt_/div_gt__lt_/div_gt_"},{"Owner":"Wingnut","Date":"2015-07-13T14:42:28Z","Content":"_lt_div class_eq__qt_mages_qt__gt_\n\t\t\t\n_lt_p_gt_Hi J (and everyone).  The reason to try to beat that... is to beat it... speed and ease-wise._lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_By hacking these offline DB_t_s_co_ folks can do all sorts of things.  One thing_co_ is batch-process all the playgrounds and actually add a field in your home db... for found keywords per playground scene.  Not only that_co_ but each user gets to pick WHICH keywords are important to THEM... and not what someone else decided was a good tag to add.  And_co_ these tag-finding batch runs... can be done many times_co_ using different keywords_co_ adding even more metadata to your home db_co_ etc etc._lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_Once you build these various db-with-tags and save them back to disk_co_ the value of the DB has what... doubled?  Now let each user delete PG_t_s that THEY think are not worth keeping.  Everyone gets to decide for themselves... what is hot and what is not.  Cooooooool._lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_Should someone add a tags field to all the current playgrounds in Azure... derived from a many-keyword search of each playground stored there?_lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_I think so.  But by doing that_co_ someone else decides what keywords are important_co_ taking that decision out of the hands of each user.   Conversely_co_ with this _qt_hand-out 3-types of db every two years_qt_ situation like we just did_co_ we all get MUCH more db-adjusting/searching power... and we put the load... on our home computers._lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_(Wingy offers doobies to everyone.)  Yuh_co_ yuh_co_ yuh_co_ we got the goods.  Now WHO can show us the coolest things to DO with those goods?  C_t_mon_co_ let_t_s hack db!  I_t_m expecting a Java applet Babylon JS Playground StaticDataBase Explorer v .001 by month-end.  Let_t_s GO!!!  _lt_img src_eq__qt_http_dd_//www.html5gamedevs.com/uploads/emoticons/default_smile.png_qt_ alt_eq__qt__dd_)_qt_ srcset_eq__qt_http_dd_//www.html5gamedevs.com/uploads/emoticons/smile@2x.png 2x_qt_ width_eq__qt_20_qt_ height_eq__qt_20_qt__gt__lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_If you_t_re REALLY hot... your PGDB explorer... is a BJS scene.  Wow!  Walk over to your _qt_Playground Box_qt_ in your scene_co_ lift it_t_s lid_co_ and see a playground scene inside.  Its code was put into your computer_t_s copy_t_n_t_paste buffer... when you opened the box.  _lt_img src_eq__qt_http_dd_//www.html5gamedevs.com/uploads/emoticons/default_smile.png_qt_ alt_eq__qt__dd_)_qt_ srcset_eq__qt_http_dd_//www.html5gamedevs.com/uploads/emoticons/smile@2x.png 2x_qt_ width_eq__qt_20_qt_ height_eq__qt_20_qt__gt__lt_/p_gt_\n\n\n\t\t\t\n\t\t_lt_/div_gt_\n\n\t\t_lt_div class_eq__qt_ipsI_qt__gt__lt_/div_gt__lt_/div_gt_"},{"Owner":"jahow","Date":"2015-07-13T15:25:59Z","Content":"_lt_div class_eq__qt_mages_qt__gt_\n\t\t\t\n_lt_p_gt_Wow_co_ you obviously are inspired by all this _lt_img src_eq__qt_http_dd_//www.html5gamedevs.com/uploads/emoticons/default_smile.png_qt_ alt_eq__qt__dd_)_qt_ srcset_eq__qt_http_dd_//www.html5gamedevs.com/uploads/emoticons/smile@2x.png 2x_qt_ width_eq__qt_20_qt_ height_eq__qt_20_qt__gt_ well_co_ my data-related proficiency is close to zero_co_ and I don_t_t have any skill point left to spend so... good luck with that! I_t_ll keep an eye on this thread _lt_img src_eq__qt_http_dd_//www.html5gamedevs.com/uploads/emoticons/default_wink.png_qt_ alt_eq__qt__sm_)_qt_ srcset_eq__qt_http_dd_//www.html5gamedevs.com/uploads/emoticons/wink@2x.png 2x_qt_ width_eq__qt_20_qt_ height_eq__qt_20_qt__gt__lt_/p_gt_\n\n\n\t\t\t\n\t\t_lt_/div_gt_\n\n\t\t_lt_div class_eq__qt_ipsI_qt__gt__lt_/div_gt__lt_/div_gt_"},{"Owner":"Wingnut","Date":"2015-07-13T15:33:18Z","Content":"_lt_div class_eq__qt_mages_qt__gt_\n\t\t\t\n_lt_p_gt_I just get excited easily_co_ you_t_ve seen it before_co_ J.  I have little purpose in my life_co_ so I blow almost everything out of proportion with over-spirit.  _lt_img src_eq__qt_http_dd_//www.html5gamedevs.com/uploads/emoticons/default_smile.png_qt_ alt_eq__qt__dd_)_qt_ srcset_eq__qt_http_dd_//www.html5gamedevs.com/uploads/emoticons/smile@2x.png 2x_qt_ width_eq__qt_20_qt_ height_eq__qt_20_qt__gt__lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_It_t_s just like drama-queening_co_ only in a different direction.  Goofy-queening_co_ maybe?_lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_@gryff... do you know that highlight.... then TAB or SHIFTED TAB in the playground... adjusts indenting of the highlighted code?  If you didn_t_t_co_ now you do.  Control-z and shift-control-z for undo/redo?   Bet so.   Control-a_co_ control-c_co_ control-x_co_ control-v_co_ SO many things to remember. _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_But ONE thing to ALWAYS _lt_u_gt__lt_strong_gt_forget_lt_/strong_gt__lt_/u_gt_... control-r.  It will ruin your day.  I asked Deltakosh if he would install a _qt__lt_em_gt_Are you sure you want to ruin your day? Y/N_lt_/em_gt__qt_ alert_co_ but it hasn_t_t hit the top of his todo list yet.  (Control-r reloads a web page_co_ and if you do that in the playground and you haven_t_t first SAVEd your edits_co_ you will lose them.)_lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_WHO will write the _qt_Everything you ever wanted to know about the Monaco playground editor_qt_ docs_co_ and append them into the playground docs?  Huh?  _lt_img src_eq__qt_http_dd_//www.html5gamedevs.com/uploads/emoticons/default_smile.png_qt_ alt_eq__qt__dd_)_qt_ srcset_eq__qt_http_dd_//www.html5gamedevs.com/uploads/emoticons/smile@2x.png 2x_qt_ width_eq__qt_20_qt_ height_eq__qt_20_qt__gt__lt_/p_gt_\n\n\n\t\t\t\n\t\t_lt_/div_gt_\n\n\t\t_lt_div class_eq__qt_ipsI_qt__gt__lt_/div_gt__lt_/div_gt_"},{"Owner":"jahow","Date":"2015-07-13T16:07:30Z","Content":"_lt_div class_eq__qt_mages_qt__gt_\n\t\t\t\n_lt_p_gt_I_t_ve got a nice one_dd_ CTRL+/ comments/uncomments the line. Too useful!_lt_/p_gt_\n\n\n\t\t\t\n\t\t_lt_/div_gt_\n\n\t\t_lt_div class_eq__qt_ipsI_qt__gt__lt_/div_gt__lt_/div_gt_"},{"Owner":"JohnK","Date":"2015-07-20T15:55:04Z","Content":"_lt_div class_eq__qt_mages_qt__gt_\n\t\t\t\n_lt_p_gt_Thank you Wingnut for the downloadable playground files. Today I needed to know how to use _lt_em_gt_onkeydown_lt_/em_gt_ events in the playground so having previously imported the pgs.xml file into MSAccess I did a quick search for onkeydown in the JSONPayload field_co_ found a couple of examples and was able to work out what to do and put it into the playground I was creating for a post in the forum._lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_Saved hours of work._lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_Any more bright ideas coming up?_lt_/p_gt_\n\n\n\t\t\t\n\t\t_lt_/div_gt_\n\n\t\t_lt_div class_eq__qt_ipsI_qt__gt__lt_/div_gt__lt_/div_gt_"},{"Owner":"Wingnut","Date":"2015-10-09T15:30:54Z","Content":"_lt_div class_eq__qt_mages_qt__gt_\n\t\t\t\n_lt_p_gt_None from me_co_ John.  hehe.  I don_t_t like the weight of responsibility that comes with having a reputation of _qt_bright_qt_.  _lt_img src_eq__qt_http_dd_//www.html5gamedevs.com/uploads/emoticons/default_biggrin.png_qt_ alt_eq__qt__dd_D_qt_ srcset_eq__qt_http_dd_//www.html5gamedevs.com/uploads/emoticons/biggrin@2x.png 2x_qt_ width_eq__qt_20_qt_ height_eq__qt_20_qt__gt__lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_Ok_co_ but_co_ let_t_s see... here we are in tutorial talk... and Mr. Wingy is about to start causing trouble._lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_Today (and for a while)_co_ let_t_s do some tutorial talk about our _lt_a href_eq__qt_http_dd_//doc.babylonjs.com/tutorials/02._Discover_Basic_Elements_qt_ rel_eq__qt_external nofollow_qt__gt_basic shapes tutorial_lt_/a_gt_.  It needs some general updating... but... soon_co_ we will need to include Jerome_t_s {options} option of creating shapes. _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_Let_t_s give this powerful new feature... an acronym/abbreviation... OOPS.  Options Object Parameter Substitution?  Maybe _qt_stocking_qt_ instead of substitution?  *shrug*   Okay okay_co_ that might suck_co_ but I am going to use that term... temporarily_co_ at least.  _lt_img src_eq__qt_http_dd_//www.html5gamedevs.com/uploads/emoticons/default_smile.png_qt_ alt_eq__qt__dd_)_qt_ srcset_eq__qt_http_dd_//www.html5gamedevs.com/uploads/emoticons/smile@2x.png 2x_qt_ width_eq__qt_20_qt_ height_eq__qt_20_qt__gt_  It saves everyone_t_s fingers._lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_Our good friend Jerome and his team have been _lt_a href_eq__qt_http_dd_//www.html5gamedevs.com/topic/17044-evolution-for-out-of-the-box-meshes-creation_qt__gt_working diligently_lt_/a_gt_ to activate the oops feature for most/all of our basic shapes/elements... yet trying to keep it all backward compatible with our non-oops shape creation.  Not an easy task._lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_My primary concern... is _lt_u_gt_how_lt_/u_gt_ to integrate _lt_a href_eq__qt_http_dd_//doc.babylonjs.com/tutorials/Mesh_CreateXXX_Methods_With_Options_Parameter_qt_ rel_eq__qt_external nofollow_qt__gt_Jerome_t_s oops information_lt_/a_gt_ into our _lt_a href_eq__qt_http_dd_//doc.babylonjs.com/tutorials/02._Discover_Basic_Elements_qt_ rel_eq__qt_external nofollow_qt__gt_basic shapes tutorial_lt_/a_gt_... at least some _lt_a href_eq__qt_http_dd_//doc.babylonjs.com/tutorials/Mesh_CreateXXX_Methods_With_Options_Parameter#box_qt_ rel_eq__qt_external nofollow_qt__gt_links_lt_/a_gt_._lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_Our basic shapes tutorial is a little crowded_co_ and might need splitting into two tutorials... possibly _lt_em_gt_Basic Shapes_lt_/em_gt_ and _lt_em_gt_Advanced Shapes_lt_/em_gt_.  This would possibly require adjusting of our current Basic Shapes PLAYGROUND_co_ and the need for ANOTHER Playground demo... for advanced shapes. _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_Possibly_co_ TORUS would be the last shape in _lt_em_gt_Basic Shapes_lt_/em_gt_.  Lines_co_ knot_co_ ribbon_co_ tube_co_ spherical harmonics_co_ and _lt_a href_eq__qt_http_dd_//www.babylonjs-playground.com/#21QRSK%231_qt_ rel_eq__qt_external nofollow_qt__gt_static shapes_lt_/a_gt_... would all be in _lt_em_gt_Advanced Shapes_lt_/em_gt_._lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_By doing this split... we have space to grow_co_ and we have space to _qt_fortify_qt_ BOTH tutorials with a good amount-of _qt_How to create this object with oops_qt_ talk._lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_If anyone has comments about this_co_ let_t_s hear them... even if they seem strange.  _lt_img src_eq__qt_http_dd_//www.html5gamedevs.com/uploads/emoticons/default_smile.png_qt_ alt_eq__qt__dd_)_qt_ srcset_eq__qt_http_dd_//www.html5gamedevs.com/uploads/emoticons/smile@2x.png 2x_qt_ width_eq__qt_20_qt_ height_eq__qt_20_qt__gt__lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_One other possible issue.  As we grow like we are_co_ we MIGHT need to re-think the pulldown _qt_select-o-demo_qt_ menu on our playground.  I would love to see us _qt_abstract-away?_qt_ one layer.  In other words... I would like to easily change the _lt_u_gt_order_lt_/u_gt_ and amount of items in that menu... _lt_u_gt_without breaking_lt_/u_gt_ many links in our tutorials.  And maybe that pulldown menu could be a drill-able tree-o-demos.  For example_co_ there would be a new choice called Parametric Shapes and maybe Static Shapes_co_ and they both could open a submenu of demos... when drilled/clicked/mouse-over_t_d.  Just a thought.  Comments welcomed... encouraged... begged-for.  _lt_img src_eq__qt_http_dd_//www.html5gamedevs.com/uploads/emoticons/default_smile.png_qt_ alt_eq__qt__dd_)_qt_ srcset_eq__qt_http_dd_//www.html5gamedevs.com/uploads/emoticons/smile@2x.png 2x_qt_ width_eq__qt_20_qt_ height_eq__qt_20_qt__gt_  Party on!_lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_PS_dd_  Ain_t_t it cool that we FINALLY get to see Dad72_t_s handsome face?!   Hi Dad72!!!  Good to see you!  _lt_img src_eq__qt_http_dd_//www.html5gamedevs.com/uploads/emoticons/default_smile.png_qt_ alt_eq__qt__dd_)_qt_ srcset_eq__qt_http_dd_//www.html5gamedevs.com/uploads/emoticons/smile@2x.png 2x_qt_ width_eq__qt_20_qt_ height_eq__qt_20_qt__gt__lt_/p_gt_\n\n\n\t\t\t\n\t\t_lt_/div_gt_\n\n\t\t_lt_div class_eq__qt_ipsI_qt__gt__lt_/div_gt__lt_/div_gt_"},{"Owner":"Deltakosh","Date":"2015-10-09T16:35:31Z","Content":"_lt_div class_eq__qt_mages_qt__gt_\n\t\t\t\n_lt_p_gt_for the playground we are working on integrating search _lt_img src_eq__qt_http_dd_//www.html5gamedevs.com/uploads/emoticons/default_smile.png_qt_ alt_eq__qt__dd_)_qt_ srcset_eq__qt_http_dd_//www.html5gamedevs.com/uploads/emoticons/smile@2x.png 2x_qt_ width_eq__qt_20_qt_ height_eq__qt_20_qt__gt__lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_For a select-o-demo_co_ why not creating a dedicated page in the documentation instead?_lt_/p_gt_\n\n\n\t\t\t\n\t\t_lt_/div_gt_\n\n\t\t_lt_div class_eq__qt_ipsI_qt__gt__lt_/div_gt__lt_/div_gt_"},{"Owner":"jerome","Date":"2015-10-09T16:46:05Z","Content":"_lt_div class_eq__qt_mages_qt__gt_\n\t\t\t\n_lt_p_gt_I agree _dd_ two parts (or more) for the BJS shapes would be nice in the tutorial _lt_/p_gt__lt_ol_gt__lt_li_gt_discover them... our current tuto_co_ setting apart exotic stuff like ribbons_co_ etc_lt_/li_gt_\t_lt_li_gt_go further_co_ with options _lt_/li_gt_\t_lt_li_gt_go even further with parametric shapes_lt_/li_gt_\t_lt_li_gt_go to hell with morphing_lt_/li_gt__lt_/ol_gt_\n\n\t\t\t\n\t\t_lt_/div_gt_\n\n\t\t_lt_div class_eq__qt_ipsI_qt__gt__lt_/div_gt__lt_/div_gt_"},{"Owner":"JohnK","Date":"2015-10-09T16:51:24Z","Content":"_lt_div class_eq__qt_mages_qt__gt_\n\t\t\t\n_lt_p_gt_Well I do have some thoughts but the danger of giving them on this topic is that people can quite rightly say that the documentation is fully editable so why not make the changes if you have some ideas. From time to time I do think about doing some editing but then get distracted by other interesting aspects of BJS _ my project is ongoing_co_ I am enjoying playing around with polyhedra and tackling the monthly challenge. _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_Something I cannot tackle would be the drop down menu of the playground a drillable tree of useful demos would be good as a way of quickly looking at examples. It would be  very good if this matched the hierarchy of the tutorials after they were edited. Oops back to where I started._lt_/p_gt_\n\n\n\t\t\t\n\t\t_lt_/div_gt_\n\n\t\t_lt_div class_eq__qt_ipsI_qt__gt__lt_/div_gt__lt_/div_gt_"},{"Owner":"Wingnut","Date":"2015-10-10T00:34:37Z","Content":"_lt_div class_eq__qt_mages_qt__gt_\n\t\t\t\n_lt_p_gt_Oh John_co_ I am sorry to hear that you feel danger in making suggestions about how our docs system should look/work.  Did you know... that YOUR suggestions about TOC and other things... was heavily-considered and used... for the making of the new docs site?  _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_Want to see how often?_lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt__lt_a href_eq__qt_http_dd_//www.html5gamedevs.com/topic/11844-official-documentation-site/?p_eq_91952_qt__gt_http_dd_//www.html5gamedevs.com/topic/11844-official-documentation-site/?p_eq_91952_lt_/a_gt__lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt__lt_a href_eq__qt_http_dd_//www.html5gamedevs.com/topic/11844-official-documentation-site/?p_eq_91766_qt__gt_http_dd_//www.html5gamedevs.com/topic/11844-official-documentation-site/?p_eq_91766_lt_/a_gt__lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt__lt_a href_eq__qt_http_dd_//www.html5gamedevs.com/topic/16295-new-documentation/?p_eq_92355_qt__gt_http_dd_//www.html5gamedevs.com/topic/16295-new-documentation/?p_eq_92355_lt_/a_gt__lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt__lt_a href_eq__qt_http_dd_//www.html5gamedevs.com/topic/4983-tutorial-talk/?p_eq_88406_qt__gt_http_dd_//www.html5gamedevs.com/topic/4983-tutorial-talk/?p_eq_88406_lt_/a_gt__lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt__lt_a href_eq__qt_http_dd_//www.html5gamedevs.com/topic/14697-mis-understanding-rotations-and-translations-local-and-world/?p_eq_84723_qt__gt_http_dd_//www.html5gamedevs.com/topic/14697-mis-understanding-rotations-and-translations-local-and-world/?p_eq_84723_lt_/a_gt__lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt__lt_a href_eq__qt_http_dd_//www.html5gamedevs.com/topic/14861-strange-results-when-transferring-meshes-between-scene/?p_eq_84334_qt__gt_http_dd_//www.html5gamedevs.com/topic/14861-strange-results-when-transferring-meshes-between-scene/?p_eq_84334_lt_/a_gt__lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt__lt_a href_eq__qt_http_dd_//www.html5gamedevs.com/topic/14697-mis-understanding-rotations-and-translations-local-and-world/?p_eq_83529_qt__gt_http_dd_//www.html5gamedevs.com/topic/14697-mis-understanding-rotations-and-translations-local-and-world/?p_eq_83529_lt_/a_gt__lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_And you gave us Cubees... and _lt_a href_eq__qt_http_dd_//www.babylonjs-playground.com/#1XBSL1%232_qt_ rel_eq__qt_external nofollow_qt__gt_this cool chair_lt_/a_gt_!  If anyone has caused this _qt_danger_qt_ feeling... you just give me their name... and I_t_ll have a little talk with their mother.  _lt_img src_eq__qt_http_dd_//www.html5gamedevs.com/uploads/emoticons/default_smile.png_qt_ alt_eq__qt__dd_)_qt_ srcset_eq__qt_http_dd_//www.html5gamedevs.com/uploads/emoticons/smile@2x.png 2x_qt_ width_eq__qt_20_qt_ height_eq__qt_20_qt__gt_  You are a major influence on our documentation_co_ John_co_ and you_t_ve written some fine documentation yourself. _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_These POSSIBLE changes that I propose... are large ones.  I could use everyone_t_s input... because others could have better/different ideas... or fix me when I_t_m thinking goofy/wrong (often).  Please don_t_t be gun-shy about making edits... or telling me/us what you think.  We_t_re watching ALL the suggestions and weighing them for wisdom.  YOUR suggestions are very important... and so are the suggestions of ALL others.  A VERY IMPORTANT part of commune-ities... is hearing and weighing everyone_t_s _qt_say_qt__co_ and taking those into consideration.  (imho)  _lt_img src_eq__qt_http_dd_//www.html5gamedevs.com/uploads/emoticons/default_smile.png_qt_ alt_eq__qt__dd_)_qt_ srcset_eq__qt_http_dd_//www.html5gamedevs.com/uploads/emoticons/smile@2x.png 2x_qt_ width_eq__qt_20_qt_ height_eq__qt_20_qt__gt__lt_/p_gt_\n\n\n\t\t\t\n\t\t_lt_/div_gt_\n\n\t\t_lt_div class_eq__qt_ipsI_qt__gt__lt_/div_gt__lt_/div_gt_"},{"Owner":"JohnK","Date":"2015-10-11T08:21:06Z","Content":"_lt_div class_eq__qt_mages_qt__gt_\n\t\t\t\n_lt_p_gt_Major reluctances on my part to give opinions in this instance are because the changes are going to be large and I have only a vague idea of what they should be. So I_t_ll jump in anyway and splash around with my woolly thinking._lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_The introduction could be briefer along the lines of_lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_how to_lt_/p_gt__lt_ul_gt__lt_li_gt_set up a scene with a camera and a light_sm__lt_/li_gt__lt_li_gt_put simple shapes (box_co_ sphere_co_ cylinder_co_ plane_co_ line and ground(?) in a scene_sm__lt_/li_gt__lt_li_gt_add colour to a shape_lt_/li_gt__lt_li_gt_add texture to a shape_lt_/li_gt__lt_li_gt_position a shape and set its rotation_lt_/li_gt__lt_/ul_gt__lt_p_gt_Each of these pages would branch to further ones such as_lt_/p_gt__lt_ul_gt__lt_li_gt_scene to cameras and lights_lt_/li_gt__lt_li_gt_simple shapes to additional shapes and to altering your shapes appearance_lt_/li_gt__lt_li_gt_colour to materials and colour_lt_/li_gt__lt_li_gt_texture to materials and texture_lt_/li_gt__lt_li_gt_positions to transformations_lt_/li_gt__lt_/ul_gt__lt_p_gt_and these would branch out to further detailed explanation. It could also be profitable if some of the questions answered within the forum were incorporated into the tutorials._lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_The thing is that these extra branches would be best if they were also included in separate tutorials. This is much like the structure as it is now but somehow the organisation of this structure would_co_ for me_co_ be better if the organisation was clearer and more coherent._lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_As I said this is a major piece of work to undertake and it could not be undertaken by a team of people unless the underlying structure and its organisation was specified in detail so that individuals in the team knew exactly what was needed and what they could do._lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_This I think would help newcomers to BJS._lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_On the other hand if I look back to when I first came to BJS I came with a certain set of expectations and read the tutorials with those expectations so misunderstood some of the terms. Even with re-structured documentation newcomers will still do the same thing. With the old set of documentation and the help of everybody in the forum I was able to learn and am still learning with the new documentation and the forum. Now I can go to the new documentation and search for what I need and still when I do not understand come to the forum._lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_So I suppose the question is given the amount of work needed to restructure the documentation what would be the benefit to newcomers_co_ existing users_co_ the forum and the authors and other experts and extending the use of BJS. In other words does the cost justify the benefits._lt_/p_gt_\n\n\n\t\t\t\n\t\t_lt_/div_gt_\n\n\t\t_lt_div class_eq__qt_ipsI_qt__gt__lt_/div_gt__lt_/div_gt_"},{"Owner":"Wingnut","Date":"2015-10-11T11:58:04Z","Content":"_lt_div class_eq__qt_mages_qt__gt_\n\t\t\t\n_lt_p_gt_ _lt_img src_eq__qt_http_dd_//www.html5gamedevs.com/uploads/emoticons/default_smile.png_qt_ alt_eq__qt__dd_)_qt_ srcset_eq__qt_http_dd_//www.html5gamedevs.com/uploads/emoticons/smile@2x.png 2x_qt_ width_eq__qt_20_qt_ height_eq__qt_20_qt__gt_  I was only looking for comments on the changes I proposed.  But yeah_co_ these are all good points.  Some of the things you mentioned... are covered by the Babylon Primer._lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_Yep_co_ yep_co_ yep... I once spoke of _qt_layers_qt_ of documentation with the docs team_co_ but I was peddling XSL_t_s abilities to _qt_filter_qt_ things from a really fat XML document.  In this case_co_ one giant XML document would contain everything on a given subject... and users could select WHICH XSL transformation they would use..._lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_1. Give me minimum details_lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_2. Give me medium level of details_lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_3. Give me ALL the details_lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_But that system would have been a nightmare to make edits-to_co_ causing editing people to need to know our XML tags_co_ and be able to properly format the XML_co_ so it validates.  Thus_co_ it would have required a special _qt_smart_qt_ document editor that had strict rules.  It was deemed too difficult to maintain or implement._lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_In that same breath_co_ you HAVE touched-onto the subject of my proposal.  In a way_co_ you are suggesting that BOX have its own tutorial.  And plane.  And ground.  Each of those tutorials... can _qt_unfold_qt_.  They each start by showing JUST the constructor and simple parameters table.  Click something_co_ and then the page _qt_unfolds_qt_ to show more details.  Click again_co_ and you get _qt_Everything you ever wanted to know about a box shape_qt_.  *nod*.  That would be sweet. _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_This is akin to your _qt_branches_qt_ except the branches would be kept in the same document and not part of another tutorial.  What MAYBE could be done after that... is to concat a document together into one webpage... using the pieces.  In other words_co_ if the user wanted to see ALL the shapes in MAX details... in a single webpage... our system could place all those individual shape docs into _qt_max details_qt_ mode_co_ and then concat them together into a single webpage.  To the user_co_ it would APPEAR as one big document about all shapes in maximum detail_co_ but it is really a concat-o-thon... lots of little pieces put together at browse-time._lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_Yup_co_ good thinkings... John.  hmm.  I don_t_t think we have the _qt_system_qt_ in-place that could do that_co_ yet_co_ but it_t_s certainly worth pondering.  The HTML for our docs/tuts... is pre-generated from .md files_co_ and these .md files would need to _qt_hold_qt_ information about WHAT information is for simple view_co_ what info is for medium-details view_co_ and what info is for MAX DETAILS view.  Currently_co_ .md files cannot do that easily_co_ I don_t_t think._lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_Markdown files (.md) CAN contain html these days_co_ which means DIV_t_s can be created within the markdown... with attributes such as detail_eq__qt_medium_qt_.  But the more html we put into the .md files_co_ the more difficult they are to edit.  Let_t_s say a user wants to add a sentence to a section of the BOX tutorial.  When they edit_co_ they would need to make a decision as to WHICH detail-level the new sentence should belong_co_ and make sure they put it into the correct detail-div.  And_co_ they would need to know enough html to format correctly and html-validate nicely.  Plus_co_ CHECKING these new docs for correctness by the curator trying to commit/merge the new doc... would be a slower process_co_ I suspect._lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_Yeah_co_ there_t_s good and bad in allowing anyone/everyone to do edits_co_ eh?  Just like the framework_co_ we want to keep doc editing as simple as possible_co_ and in doing that_co_ we must avoid some advanced features and the potential complexity that comes along for the ride.  hmm._lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_I am definitely going to keep your ideas in-mind_co_ and keep mulling it over.  I hope others do_co_ as well.  Thanks John! _lt_/p_gt_\n\n\n\t\t\t\n\t\t_lt_/div_gt_\n\n\t\t_lt_div class_eq__qt_ipsI_qt__gt__lt_/div_gt__lt_/div_gt_"},{"Owner":"Wingnut","Date":"2015-11-02T09:11:34Z","Content":"_lt_div class_eq__qt_mages_qt__gt_\n\t\t\t\n_lt_p_gt_Hi guys.  Today_co_ I mark this thread as closed.  I_t_ve been kicking it down the road long enough.  Please use the pinned documentation thread at_dd__lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt__lt_a href_eq__qt_http_dd_//www.html5gamedevs.com/topic/16365-contributing-to-documentation-101/_qt__gt_http_dd_//www.html5gamedevs.com/topic/16365-contributing-to-documentation-101/_lt_/a_gt__lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_(although it_co_ too_co_ is stagnated/stalled)_lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_ _lt_/p_gt__lt_p_gt_Thanks to everyone who participated in this thread.  Party on!_lt_/p_gt_\n\n\n\t\t\t\n\t\t_lt_/div_gt_\n\n\t\t_lt_div class_eq__qt_ipsI_qt__gt__lt_/div_gt__lt_/div_gt_"},{"Owner":"StarTrekCafe","Date":"2015-11-27T10:23:38Z","Content":"_lt_div class_eq__qt_mages_qt__gt_\n\t\t\t\n_lt_p_gt_ehi. wondering. doing a web based audio game_co_ and using a screen reader_co_ jaws for windows _lt_a href_eq__qt_http_dd_//www.freedomscientific.com_qt_ rel_eq__qt_external nofollow_qt__gt_http_dd_//www.freedomscientific.com_lt_/a_gt__co_ and now_co_ how to install it and to use it. also how to use the more human soundign voices. did do a hangman text based game in vb 2010 in 2012_co_ but first time doing a web based space invaders gamefor my programming course. so hit a bit of a roadblock. looked at different tutorials_co_ typed up the code_co_ found free gpl images_co_ sounds_co_ sound effects_co_ libaries. so can any one help me out and mentor me_co_ and point me in the right direction. also need to have regions for game updates_co_ multiplayer and play over the net . can any one help me out. marvin. _lt_/p_gt_\n\n\n\t\t\t\n\t\t_lt_/div_gt_\n\n\t\t_lt_div class_eq__qt_ipsI_qt__gt__lt_/div_gt__lt_/div_gt_"},{"Owner":"Wingnut","Date":"2016-03-03T03:08:58Z","Content":"_lt_div class_eq__qt_mages_qt__gt_\n\t\t\t\n_lt_p_gt_\n\tHi STC!  Well_co_ I hope you found some answers_co_ because Tutorial Talk was on hiatus.  But now it_t_s back!  If you still need answers to those questions_co_ you should start a fresh topic on the forum.  The purpose of this thread... was/is to talk about how/when/where to write tutorials_co_ and all sorts of other documentation issues.  Here_co_ I hope to discuss teaching objectives and methods.  I hope that_t_s cool with you_co_ STC.  You_t_re certainly welcome to join-in.\n_lt_/p_gt_\n\n_lt_p_gt_\n\tHey everyone!\n_lt_/p_gt_\n\n_lt_p_gt_\n\t_lt_span style_eq__qt_font-size_dd_36px_sm__qt__gt__lt_strong_gt_Welcome back to Tutorial Talk!_lt_/strong_gt__lt_/span_gt_ \n_lt_/p_gt_\n\n_lt_p_gt_\n\tWhooda thought... ahh nevermind.\n_lt_/p_gt_\n\n_lt_p_gt_\n\tEric McG_co_ a college teacher of BJS webGL... _lt_a href_eq__qt_http_dd_//www.html5gamedevs.com/topic/20778-quality-babylonjs-demos/?do_eq_findComment&amp_sm_comment_eq_118854_qt__gt_recently reminded us_lt_/a_gt_ of some weaknesses we have in our class-file documentation_co_ and other places.  Thanks Eric!\n_lt_/p_gt_\n\n_lt_p_gt_\n\tA tiny amount of enthusiasm toward repairing that situation... ensued (in that thread).  Yay!   But...\n_lt_/p_gt_\n\n_lt_p_gt_\n\tThere are some nut-wrenching issues involved in documenting class statics_co_ properties_co_ and methods.  Let_t_s pick an example_dd_\n_lt_/p_gt_\n\n_lt_p_gt_\n\t_lt_em_gt_scene.ambientColor_lt_/em_gt_ - This sets/gets the scene_t_s ambient color.\n_lt_/p_gt_\n\n_lt_p_gt_\n\tThe problem with this line... is obvious_co_ literally.  It says something obvious.  It barely says the dataType (a color_co_ but nobody knows color3/4/any).  It doesn_t_t have a demo code line.  Lastly_co_ it doesn_t_t have the _qt_Deltakosh Big Picture_qt_... which we will refer-to as DBP from here onward.  (And to be fair_co_ datatypes and parameters ARE shown in our current class docs... pretty nicely.  The parameter tables for methods... are sweet.)\n_lt_/p_gt_\n\n_lt_p_gt_\n\tDBP is _lt_strong_gt_not_lt_/strong_gt_ easy to document_co_ because we cannot crawl inside Deltakosh_t_s brain and its memories.  Scene.ambientColor affects all other mesh colors.  It is averaged-into the final colors of all colored mesh (as best I understand it).  But does it affect textured mesh_co_ too?  Does it affect light.diffuse?  Does it affect material.emissiveColor?  Is it averaged-into ONLY all material.diffuseColors and no other material properties? \n_lt_/p_gt_\n\n_lt_p_gt_\n\tSure_co_ we dockers could _qt_grind_qt_ those answers out of the source code_co_ but doing that will quickly discourage us from future enthusiasm for documenting classes.  Still_co_ a certain amount of that... MUST be done.\n_lt_/p_gt_\n\n_lt_p_gt_\n\tRough call_co_ eh?  Too much info/text in the webpage for a class... will make it difficult to find information.  They will become cluttered with text.\n_lt_/p_gt_\n\n_lt_p_gt_\n\tBut... what if... there was a _qt_more info_qt_ link next to class items... on their webpage?  What if we _qt_branched-away_qt_ somewhere... to a _qt_class_descriptions_qt_ (md/json) file that was included-in during our docs build?  Would that be a wiser way?  My intuition says _qt_yes_qt__co_ but I_t_ve learned not to trust my intuition all that much.  _lt_img alt_eq__qt__dd_D_qt_ data-emoticon_eq__qt_true_qt_ height_eq__qt_20_qt_ src_eq__qt_http_dd_//www.html5gamedevs.com/uploads/emoticons/default_biggrin.png_qt_ srcset_eq__qt_http_dd_//www.html5gamedevs.com/uploads/emoticons/biggrin@2x.png 2x_qt_ title_eq__qt__dd_D_qt_ width_eq__qt_20_qt__gt_  MD files for a class... would no-longer present ANY text on a class_t_s web page (initially). \n_lt_/p_gt_\n\n_lt_p_gt_\n\tWith this system/way_co_ ALL descriptions... for every static/prop/method... would ONLY be available after clicking a _qt_more info_qt_ link adjacent to each.  If clicked_co_ it presents the description and a potential crap-load of DBP... somehow.  Class web pages would (by default) present/maintain a very _qt_clean look_qt__co_ by doing this. \n_lt_/p_gt_\n\n_lt_p_gt_\n\tThis method might also be a nightmare for the folks who coded our documentation system.  So_co_ let_t_s not go crazy over this idea... until we speak with the elders. _lt_img alt_eq__qt__sm_)_qt_ data-emoticon_eq__qt_true_qt_ height_eq__qt_20_qt_ src_eq__qt_http_dd_//www.html5gamedevs.com/uploads/emoticons/default_wink.png_qt_ srcset_eq__qt_http_dd_//www.html5gamedevs.com/uploads/emoticons/wink@2x.png 2x_qt_ title_eq__qt__sm_)_qt_ width_eq__qt_20_qt__gt__lt_/p_gt_\n\n_lt_p_gt_\n\tI think we all (both people reading this) understand the issue.  This is what Eric McG was asking with _qt_is there a plan?_qt_  Well Eric... there is not_co_ because the framework is growing and changing at such a high rate of speed... that the documentation got away from us.  The system didn_t_t.  Deltakosh and Temechon and the team... did a GREAT job at building a wonderful documentation _qt_engine_qt_... I love it (though it scared me at first).  The rest of us... simply have not utilized that new_co_ wonderful system very much at all.  We have a gorgeous documentation system... but it is sorely low on content.  Part of that is my fault... I apologize.  Real life circumstances get in the way (even though this is also real life).\n_lt_/p_gt_\n\n_lt_p_gt_\n\tANYWAY... welcome back to Tutorial Talk... I hope we get some participation.  Let_t_s hear your opinions_co_ gang.\n_lt_/p_gt_\n\n\n\t\t\t\n\t\t_lt_/div_gt_\n\n\t\t_lt_div class_eq__qt_ipsI_qt__gt__lt_/div_gt__lt_/div_gt_"},{"Owner":"Deltakosh","Date":"2016-03-03T04:08:19Z","Content":"_lt_div class_eq__qt_mages_qt__gt_\n\t\t\t\n_lt_p_gt_\n\tAgree with you. Community is not really _qt_motivated_qt_ to help on the doc_dd_)\n_lt_/p_gt_\n\n_lt_p_gt_\n\tFor my part I_t_ll start adding real example directly in the code to get more info in the classes section of the doc. Like this_dd_ _lt_a href_eq__qt_https_dd_//github.com/BabylonJS/Babylon.js/blob/master/src/Debug/babylon.skeletonViewer.ts#L3_qt_ rel_eq__qt_external nofollow_qt__gt_https_dd_//github.com/BabylonJS/Babylon.js/blob/master/src/Debug/babylon.skeletonViewer.ts#L3_lt_/a_gt_\n_lt_/p_gt_\n\n_lt_p_gt_\n\t \n_lt_/p_gt_\n\n_lt_p_gt_\n\tOnce again_co_ you may not feel good enough to contribute (which is wrong _dd_)) but writing some comments / doc could then feels more easy to achieve !\n_lt_/p_gt_\n\n\n\t\t\t\n\t\t_lt_/div_gt_\n\n\t\t_lt_div class_eq__qt_ipsI_qt__gt__lt_/div_gt__lt_/div_gt_"},{"Owner":"Wingnut","Date":"2016-03-03T12:07:29Z","Content":"_lt_div class_eq__qt_mages_qt__gt_\n\t\t\t\n_lt_p_gt_\n\tHi DK.  Actually_co_ I am against documentation within the code.  Comments are good_co_ but they could/should be for yourself and/or for other framework programmers.  Those in-source demo URLs and information... go stale_co_ quickly and easily.  And_co_ we probably don_t_t want dockers (people who document) to mess-with the source code.  (imho)\n_lt_/p_gt_\n\n_lt_p_gt_\n\tNot only that_co_ but_co_ it is my opinion that core coders should _lt_u_gt_not_lt_/u_gt_ have to document much at all.  They already do lots of work_co_ and battle many issues.  I think dockers should write the documentation... and ONLY inside the class .md files.  WE (dockers) would gather documentation from...\n_lt_/p_gt_\n\n_lt_p_gt_\n\t- info that framework programmers have already told us on the forum_lt_br_gt_\n\t- info discovered by studying demos and tests_lt_br_gt_\n\t- info discovered from studying source code_lt_br_gt_\n\t- info from _lt_u_gt__lt_em_gt_sometimes_lt_/em_gt__lt_/u_gt_ asking questions to framework coders (we have done lots of this_co_ already)\n_lt_/p_gt_\n\n_lt_p_gt_\n\tIdeally_co_ framework coders COULD periodically scan our webpages_co_ and make sure that the dockers didn_t_t say wrong things.  Saying wrong things is one of my biggest fears_co_ in doc writing.\n_lt_/p_gt_\n\n_lt_p_gt_\n\tYour intentions are wonderful_co_ DK_co_ but I believe the source code is the environment of the coders_co_ not the dockers.  Comments in source code should be targeted-for the framework coders.\n_lt_/p_gt_\n\n_lt_p_gt_\n\tI don_t_t know much about the docs builds_co_ yet... but... it seems that _lt_em_gt_some_lt_/em_gt_ class web page information comes from source code_co_ and _lt_em_gt_some_lt_/em_gt_ comes from the class .md file.  (I should go look-at what a class .md contains_co_ eh?)  During a build (or possibly during a separate batch run)_co_ the info gathered from source code can change for every framework version.  The info located-within and gathered-from .md files... carries-through from version to version.\n_lt_/p_gt_\n\n_lt_p_gt_\n\tBut_co_ I think I heard Temechon tell me... that the class .md files are derived/created...  during a _lt_u_gt_separate_lt_/u_gt_ batch run (not done during standard build).  That batch engine might combine info found in source code... with info found in the previous version of the .md file.  If this is correct_co_ class md_t_s are not re-derived during our normal doc builds.  I think I remember hearing him say that.\n_lt_/p_gt_\n\n_lt_p_gt_\n\tMy HOPE... is/was to remove workload from the code contributors_co_ and add workload to the docs contributors (dockers).  Framework coders CAN be dockers_co_ too  (particularly for systems they coded)...  but DK_co_ in the forum... YOU have already told us LOTS about the code you have written_co_ and provided many demos and videos  (Other framework coders have also talked about their coding well_co_ too).  The dockers should be the ones to handle it... from here.  Our non-code-contributing forum users... are VERY intelligent_co_ and we have the potential to form a very good_co_ and very large... team of dockers.\n_lt_/p_gt_\n\n_lt_p_gt_\n\tIn the same breath_co_ I think that _qt_team of dockers_qt_... is somewhat scared of github.  I am not sure what to do about that_co_ yet_co_ other than telling my stories of building my own documentation workflow environment.\n_lt_/p_gt_\n\n_lt_p_gt_\n\tJust thoughts.  *shrug*\n_lt_/p_gt_\n\n\n\t\t\t\n\t\t_lt_/div_gt_\n\n\t\t_lt_div class_eq__qt_ipsI_qt__gt__lt_/div_gt__lt_/div_gt_"}]