<story><title>Oracle and the fall of Java EE</title><url>https://techsticles.blogspot.com/2016/07/oracle-and-fall-of-java-ee.html?utm_content=bufferf1a2e&amp;utm_medium=social&amp;utm_source=linkedin.com&amp;utm_campaign=buffer</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>spriggan3</author><text>&amp;gt;  Golang seems really promising, but has a long way to go. C# seems like the most credible challenger for business systems, but the .NET Core ecosystem is probably still years away from being where Java was in 2005.&lt;p&gt;Go doesn&amp;#x27;t have the guts to replace Java, because of the hostile mindset of its community when it comes to writing reusable, general purpose libraries. the famous &amp;quot;you don&amp;#x27;t need that with Go&amp;quot; is something pushed by go maintainers themselves.&lt;p&gt;The best bet is .NET core. Microsoft can move quite fast on a project, just look at Typescript or VSCode. And there are already hundreds of thousands of C# devs if not more. C# and F# with .Net core on linux will certainly be the future of entreprise development when the RC mess is sorted out. And MS can still make money on expensive SQLServer 
licenses.&lt;p&gt;I don&amp;#x27;t think the latest JEE was that bad though. It tried to do away with a lot of unnecessary complexity.</text></item><item><author>StevePerkins</author><text>Amen.  Be it Hacker News, or the &amp;#x2F;r&amp;#x2F;java subreddit, or wherever, it feels like the bulk of Java chatter revolves around...&lt;p&gt;1. Security vulnerabilities&lt;p&gt;2. The Ask.com toolbar&lt;p&gt;3. Oracle abandoning Java EE&lt;p&gt;... which is extremely frustrating because...&lt;p&gt;1. Virtually all of the &amp;quot;security vulnerabilities&amp;quot; deal with the browser plugin for using applets, which hasn&amp;#x27;t been widely used in 15 years&lt;p&gt;2. The toolbar malware, while stupid beyond measure, only applies to the consumer Java installer, which nobody installs anymore due to item #1 above.&lt;p&gt;3. Java EE is legacy tech.  While deeply entrenched, most of the work out there for it today consists of maintenance or migration to more service-friendly approaches like Spring or Dropwizard.&lt;p&gt;Java is certainly not perfect.  It&amp;#x27;s also long in the tooth, and is associated with &amp;quot;the enterprise&amp;quot;, and so it&amp;#x27;s not seen as &amp;quot;sexy&amp;quot; by young developers.  But for business software, large-scale data processing, and web&amp;#x2F;REST backends, I&amp;#x27;ve yet to find anything on the horizon that seriously competes with it.&lt;p&gt;Every year I get bored and go exploring a new alternative language in side projects.  Every year I come back, more appreciative of what I have.  Python&amp;#x2F;Ruby&amp;#x2F;Node have their beginner-friendly charms, but are limited by the lack of type checking and&amp;#x2F;or chaotic ecosystems.  Golang seems really promising, but has a long way to go.  C# seems like the most credible challenger for business systems, but the .NET Core ecosystem is probably still years away from being where Java was in 2005.&lt;p&gt;I don&amp;#x27;t mind discussing Java&amp;#x27;s shortcomings.  But I&amp;#x27;m tired of hearing about &lt;i&gt;irrelevant&lt;/i&gt; shortcomings such as applets and Java EE.  Because that&amp;#x27;s just a way to keep a &amp;quot;language war&amp;quot; going without having to point at a serious alternative.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>voidlogic</author><text>&amp;gt;Go doesn&amp;#x27;t have the guts to replace Java, because of the hostile mindset of its community when it comes to writing reusable, general purpose libraries. the famous &amp;quot;you don&amp;#x27;t need that with Go&amp;quot; is something pushed by go maintainers themselves.&lt;p&gt;Go has a pretty comprehensive stdlib. And a huge and growing community of 3rd party libraries. I left .NET and Java for Go around 0.9 and since then I have seen Go flower into an ecosystem I am far more productive than. The Go devs have a bias against complexity, they hate Abstract Factory Factory Singletons :P, but that does have much impact on community developed libraries. The Go community does have a strong bias towards libraries and against frameworks, but IMHO, that is generally healthy. The only concrete example of what you are talking about is the current lack of generics support.</text></comment>
<story><title>Oracle and the fall of Java EE</title><url>https://techsticles.blogspot.com/2016/07/oracle-and-fall-of-java-ee.html?utm_content=bufferf1a2e&amp;utm_medium=social&amp;utm_source=linkedin.com&amp;utm_campaign=buffer</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>spriggan3</author><text>&amp;gt;  Golang seems really promising, but has a long way to go. C# seems like the most credible challenger for business systems, but the .NET Core ecosystem is probably still years away from being where Java was in 2005.&lt;p&gt;Go doesn&amp;#x27;t have the guts to replace Java, because of the hostile mindset of its community when it comes to writing reusable, general purpose libraries. the famous &amp;quot;you don&amp;#x27;t need that with Go&amp;quot; is something pushed by go maintainers themselves.&lt;p&gt;The best bet is .NET core. Microsoft can move quite fast on a project, just look at Typescript or VSCode. And there are already hundreds of thousands of C# devs if not more. C# and F# with .Net core on linux will certainly be the future of entreprise development when the RC mess is sorted out. And MS can still make money on expensive SQLServer 
licenses.&lt;p&gt;I don&amp;#x27;t think the latest JEE was that bad though. It tried to do away with a lot of unnecessary complexity.</text></item><item><author>StevePerkins</author><text>Amen.  Be it Hacker News, or the &amp;#x2F;r&amp;#x2F;java subreddit, or wherever, it feels like the bulk of Java chatter revolves around...&lt;p&gt;1. Security vulnerabilities&lt;p&gt;2. The Ask.com toolbar&lt;p&gt;3. Oracle abandoning Java EE&lt;p&gt;... which is extremely frustrating because...&lt;p&gt;1. Virtually all of the &amp;quot;security vulnerabilities&amp;quot; deal with the browser plugin for using applets, which hasn&amp;#x27;t been widely used in 15 years&lt;p&gt;2. The toolbar malware, while stupid beyond measure, only applies to the consumer Java installer, which nobody installs anymore due to item #1 above.&lt;p&gt;3. Java EE is legacy tech.  While deeply entrenched, most of the work out there for it today consists of maintenance or migration to more service-friendly approaches like Spring or Dropwizard.&lt;p&gt;Java is certainly not perfect.  It&amp;#x27;s also long in the tooth, and is associated with &amp;quot;the enterprise&amp;quot;, and so it&amp;#x27;s not seen as &amp;quot;sexy&amp;quot; by young developers.  But for business software, large-scale data processing, and web&amp;#x2F;REST backends, I&amp;#x27;ve yet to find anything on the horizon that seriously competes with it.&lt;p&gt;Every year I get bored and go exploring a new alternative language in side projects.  Every year I come back, more appreciative of what I have.  Python&amp;#x2F;Ruby&amp;#x2F;Node have their beginner-friendly charms, but are limited by the lack of type checking and&amp;#x2F;or chaotic ecosystems.  Golang seems really promising, but has a long way to go.  C# seems like the most credible challenger for business systems, but the .NET Core ecosystem is probably still years away from being where Java was in 2005.&lt;p&gt;I don&amp;#x27;t mind discussing Java&amp;#x27;s shortcomings.  But I&amp;#x27;m tired of hearing about &lt;i&gt;irrelevant&lt;/i&gt; shortcomings such as applets and Java EE.  Because that&amp;#x27;s just a way to keep a &amp;quot;language war&amp;quot; going without having to point at a serious alternative.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>TorKlingberg</author><text>Traditionally, Microsoft technology has been an all-or-nothing affair. If you want C# you also get IIS, SQL Server, Windows, Azure, Visual Studio, Windows on your dev machine and I wouldn&amp;#x27;t be surprised if Exchange shows up somehow. You could use Mono, but then you were off the beaten path and on your own. When something new appeared from outside Microsoft, such as git, it wouldn&amp;#x27;t fit into the MS ecosystem for a while.&lt;p&gt;Now Microsoft seems to be changing its culture, but I can understand if people are weary.</text></comment>