<story><title>France looking at banning Tor, blocking public Wi-Fi</title><url>http://arstechnica.co.uk/tech-policy/2015/12/france-looking-at-banning-tor-blocking-public-wi-fi/</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>Mikeb85</author><text>Unfortunately, the ugly truth is that communal punishment is the only form of punishment that truly works.&lt;p&gt;Right now, Muslims won&amp;#x27;t turn in their neighbors and children to the authorities if they&amp;#x27;re radicalized.  It&amp;#x27;s only when they&amp;#x27;re more afraid of the consequences of not turning them in that extremism will finally begin to be purged from their communities.&lt;p&gt;As long as Muslims say &amp;quot;they&amp;#x27;re not REAL Muslims&amp;quot; and absolve themselves of what their neighbors and family members are doing, radicalism will never be eliminated.&lt;p&gt;Since extremist sects recruit from within moderate sects, the moderates need to be more diligent in truly eliminating the extremist element.  That means more consequences to the community.  Which is unfair, but it&amp;#x27;s either that or the rise of the &amp;#x27;Sixth Reich&amp;#x27; in a generation because right now, we&amp;#x27;re just kicking the can down the road.&lt;p&gt;Disclaimer - this of course doesn&amp;#x27;t touch on the root causes of extremism, namely the Saudi state and its support of Wahhabism, as well as the overthrowing of several moderate states in the Middle East during the 20th century, as well as the demise of Arab Nationalism (and secularism) and rampant inequality and poverty in many Arab and Muslim countries.  Unfortunately the proverbial Genie is out of the bottle...</text></item><item><author>cryoshon</author><text>On one hand, it&amp;#x27;s unquestionable that radical Islam is an aggressor that is funding and directing terror attacks.&lt;p&gt;On the other hand, Muslims are people too, and it is extremely unjust to punish all Muslims for the actions of a radical sect. I think that Europe is in danger of lurching rightward and tempting the return of ethno-religious cleansing. Fascism is not pretty, and the danger for Europeans is real.</text></item><item><author>TallGuyShort</author><text>I&amp;#x27;m genuinely more afraid of the people who are afraid right now than I am of the people who they think I should be afraid of. The anti-Muslim rhetoric (e.g. yelling &amp;quot;All Muslims are terrorists&amp;quot; at town meetings) scares the hell out of me. How easily could that attitude be shifted towards any arbitrary group with just one or two tragic events?</text></item><item><author>ultramancool</author><text>I&amp;#x27;m getting really afraid of these authoritarian opportunists. Seems much more likely to have an impact on my life than terrorist attacks at least...</text></item><item><author>gotchange</author><text>The French regime again showing its ugly authoritarian and statist face with these draconian bills. It wasn&amp;#x27;t enough for them to put environmentalists under house arrest  and subject innocent people to humiliating mandatory reporting to different police stations 3 times a day or obligatory curfew for certain people or neighborhoods without any judicial oversight. [0]&lt;p&gt;I knew it from the beginning that they would abuse the State of Emergency decree and turn the lives of people esp minorities into a living hell.&lt;p&gt;[0]: &lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;wiki.laquadrature.net&amp;#x2F;%C3%89tat_urgence&amp;#x2F;Recensement#&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;wiki.laquadrature.net&amp;#x2F;%C3%89tat_urgence&amp;#x2F;Recensement#&lt;/a&gt; ((FR))</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>dang</author><text>&amp;gt; &lt;i&gt;the ugly truth is that communal punishment is the only form of punishment that truly works&lt;/i&gt;&lt;p&gt;I appreciate from your other comments that your views are nuanced, but posting something this glib about something this horrific crosses the line here.</text></comment>
<story><title>France looking at banning Tor, blocking public Wi-Fi</title><url>http://arstechnica.co.uk/tech-policy/2015/12/france-looking-at-banning-tor-blocking-public-wi-fi/</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>Mikeb85</author><text>Unfortunately, the ugly truth is that communal punishment is the only form of punishment that truly works.&lt;p&gt;Right now, Muslims won&amp;#x27;t turn in their neighbors and children to the authorities if they&amp;#x27;re radicalized.  It&amp;#x27;s only when they&amp;#x27;re more afraid of the consequences of not turning them in that extremism will finally begin to be purged from their communities.&lt;p&gt;As long as Muslims say &amp;quot;they&amp;#x27;re not REAL Muslims&amp;quot; and absolve themselves of what their neighbors and family members are doing, radicalism will never be eliminated.&lt;p&gt;Since extremist sects recruit from within moderate sects, the moderates need to be more diligent in truly eliminating the extremist element.  That means more consequences to the community.  Which is unfair, but it&amp;#x27;s either that or the rise of the &amp;#x27;Sixth Reich&amp;#x27; in a generation because right now, we&amp;#x27;re just kicking the can down the road.&lt;p&gt;Disclaimer - this of course doesn&amp;#x27;t touch on the root causes of extremism, namely the Saudi state and its support of Wahhabism, as well as the overthrowing of several moderate states in the Middle East during the 20th century, as well as the demise of Arab Nationalism (and secularism) and rampant inequality and poverty in many Arab and Muslim countries.  Unfortunately the proverbial Genie is out of the bottle...</text></item><item><author>cryoshon</author><text>On one hand, it&amp;#x27;s unquestionable that radical Islam is an aggressor that is funding and directing terror attacks.&lt;p&gt;On the other hand, Muslims are people too, and it is extremely unjust to punish all Muslims for the actions of a radical sect. I think that Europe is in danger of lurching rightward and tempting the return of ethno-religious cleansing. Fascism is not pretty, and the danger for Europeans is real.</text></item><item><author>TallGuyShort</author><text>I&amp;#x27;m genuinely more afraid of the people who are afraid right now than I am of the people who they think I should be afraid of. The anti-Muslim rhetoric (e.g. yelling &amp;quot;All Muslims are terrorists&amp;quot; at town meetings) scares the hell out of me. How easily could that attitude be shifted towards any arbitrary group with just one or two tragic events?</text></item><item><author>ultramancool</author><text>I&amp;#x27;m getting really afraid of these authoritarian opportunists. Seems much more likely to have an impact on my life than terrorist attacks at least...</text></item><item><author>gotchange</author><text>The French regime again showing its ugly authoritarian and statist face with these draconian bills. It wasn&amp;#x27;t enough for them to put environmentalists under house arrest  and subject innocent people to humiliating mandatory reporting to different police stations 3 times a day or obligatory curfew for certain people or neighborhoods without any judicial oversight. [0]&lt;p&gt;I knew it from the beginning that they would abuse the State of Emergency decree and turn the lives of people esp minorities into a living hell.&lt;p&gt;[0]: &lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;wiki.laquadrature.net&amp;#x2F;%C3%89tat_urgence&amp;#x2F;Recensement#&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;wiki.laquadrature.net&amp;#x2F;%C3%89tat_urgence&amp;#x2F;Recensement#&lt;/a&gt; ((FR))</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>IkmoIkmo</author><text>Eh, could you hold that thought for a moment? We&amp;#x27;re busy with our collective punishment programme of Christians, they should&amp;#x27;ve stopped Breivik because hey, all Christians exchange terrorist plans and knew it was coming but they didn&amp;#x27;t warn the police! The only way we can convince them to warn the police next time is to punish them collectively this time, these Christians just don&amp;#x27;t care otherwise...&lt;p&gt;Can you see how silly your reasoning is or do you want more jokes?&lt;p&gt;Collective punishment is a stupid, barbaric, medieval idea we&amp;#x27;ve fortunately gotten rid of. You&amp;#x27;re suggesting guilt by association, it&amp;#x27;s on the level of ridiculous ideas you&amp;#x27;d expect from groups like IS.</text></comment>