[Amanpour:] Welcome back to the program. Now, from "Cabaret" on Broadway to "The Good Wife" on TV, the award-winning actor, Alan Cumming has long been a familiar face on stage and screen, known for his sparkling personality and his haunting, revealing books, his latest, "You've Gotta Get Bigger Dreams," provided the perfect spring board for our conversation about celebrity and real-life politics. Alan Cumming, welcome to the program.
[Cumming:] Thank you.
[Amanpour:] I mean, you are the ultimate political strategist at least in your TV life and we are in the post-second debate mode. Did you watch it?
[Cumming:] I did. I did. I'm here in London. I set my alarm clock, I woke up and I watched it.
[Amanpour:] And did you think it measured up to the fictional politics, or does it even exceed the plot lines that you can generate for fictional politics?
[Cumming:] Well, I think the whole American campaign right now is way beyond any insane satirical plot line. I'm just embarrassed. I'm so embarrassed that at this stage in a political campaign, let alone a presidential campaign for a huge country like America, that genitalia groping and the size of a Miss Universe contestant should be major part of discussion.
[Amanpour:] Can I ask you, though, because it is relevant. It's obviously the reducto absurdum of our celebrity culture. You've just written a book, "You've Got to Get Bigger Dreams." We'll talk about that in a second. But it is all about the selfie. It's all about the me, I've looked through it, I've seen it. It's all pictures about you. He is a reality television star. Is this to be expected?
[Cumming:] No, I don't think. Of course, we've known Donald Trump for a while. He's not popped out of nowhere. So I don't think that I think, you know, we get what we deserve in elections. My personal understanding of that is the lack of value that America puts on education. And so we have a generation that isn't very educated. It does not analyze the news as infotainment, instead of facts. And so, and it's much more predispose to be duped by sound bites and jingoism. But at the same time, if I may say, that's also a huge fault of the media, the political media for not taking sides, for not properly investigating and doing their job.
[Amanpour:] There are obviously some fantastic exceptions. The "Washington Post" has distinguished itself from the very beginning holding him and all the other candidates accountable.
[Cumming:] Yes.
[Amanpour:] The basic duty of journalists.
[Cumming:] That and entertaining the minority. And also the other thing is, who is reading the "Washington Post"? A very, very small percentage of the electorate.
[Amanpour:] What about when you were playing Eli Gold in this runaway success "The Good Wife?" I mean, you were you had a heart, but very cynical, hard-bitten, political adviser. I mean, people are very cynical about politics. And so when they see an adviser like Eli Gold, you know, doing all sorts of nefarious things, they may confuse that with reality, and may not think that politics is aspirational anymore.
[Cumming:] Well, I think, they're right. Chicago itself is a whole other world. And that's obviously where the bulk of the Democratic headquarters are, and where so much of the Democratic ethos comes from. And it's a very, very corrupt time politically. And they wear the corruptness on their sleeves as a badge of honor. It's not something that's hidden. I can't remember the exact date. It's something like four out of the last six governors of Illinois have gone to prison. I mean, that's terrible. And so there's a whole suede of corruption and criminality that's attached to politics in America. That doesn't seem to be a problem for most people.
[Amanpour:] But I did want to ask you about this. Because you've got to get bigger dreams kind of plays into what we're talking about. Tell me about the title. It's an encounter with Oprah Winfrey, right?
[Cumming:] Yes. The book is a book of stories and photographs of moments in my life, and I tried to stand back from my life in a way because I'm an outsider in America. I'm an outsider in Scotland as well. I think it's quite a healthy place to be able to stand back and allow other people to look into it and have the same sort of look at it in the same way. But Oprah so Oprah said that line, because my friend Eddie is obsessed with Oprah. And I was being invited to a big gala that she was being honored at. And he really wants a photograph of her, of course. Here's the photo I take.
[Amanpour:] Here it is.
[Cumming:] Oprah started to come towards us.
[Amanpour:] And you were going to miss your shot.
[Cumming:] Yes. But we were going to be right beside and she was coming
[Amanpour:] And marched off?
[Cumming:] No, I took the photo, boom, marched off. And I thought, that's the photo you see. It's kind of I thought, oh my goodness, what a terrible picture, but I think it's perfect.
[Amanpour:] Your last book "Not My Father's Son" was very dramatic and spoke of a very, very tough childhood.
[Cumming:] Yes.
[Amanpour:] Tell me a little bit about that. And particularly the relationship between you and your father, which was abusive.
[Cumming:] Yes, my father was very abusive, very violent, physically and mentally abusive. And we lived in a very remote area of east coast of Scotland. And to my brother as well, he did those things. And it was just really tough. And I'd never let anyone come right to the house. I don't in case my father was out and around. Because, you know, it's the thing about when you're abused, you protect the abuser. If the abuser is good at his job, it's a common thing that the abusee protects. Embarrassed, of course, and humiliated but also wants to protect him because it will wash to them if they find out. So I would always make sure that my I would always get dropped off a little bit away from my house. It's been interesting writing this book and it also did something because when I'm on a book tour again and people come up to me and tell me things, you know, from my past. It's actually a great way to engage in public.
[Amanpour:] Yes. What I was going to say exactly. People sometimes need larger than life characters like yourself to make it OK.
[Cumming:] Yes.
[Amanpour:] To talk about it and to seek help.
[Cumming:] I mean, this book has been amazing. I didn't really bargain on it at all, perhaps rather naively. But the number of people that have come up to me and say, you know, I had a similar thing. And you've been able to make me talk to my family, or you know, you gave me confidence to do it. That's been an incredibly moving and a surprising part of this process.
[Amanpour:] And "Not Your Father's Son." Was he not your father? I know your brother called you and said this. He said that you weren't
[Cumming:] Yes. I was about to do that
[Amanpour:] You were?
[Cumming:] I took the test.
[Amanpour:] You are.
[Cumming:] So it was in that time I was really happy because I want to be his son. My brother was like, oh, you're lucky. And then when I did get the DNA results and I discovered that he was lying, and I could tell him, I was so furious. And, also, I thought I'm dealing with an irrational man, who was and his imagine all his life, or from a certain point in my early life, he has made his truth that he did not father me. How do you deal with that? How do you get to that? There's no sense of logic. There's no you know, after talking to other people, I realized that he had some form of mental illness. Certainly many personality disorders. A little bit like Donald Trump, actually. And I sort of made peace with that. I'm not going to get any any he died. But I'm not going to get any rationale from someone who is so irrational.
[Amanpour:] Really important lesson. It's great that you wrote it.
[Cumming:] You've got to let go. But I do think Donald Trump is mentally ill. Getting back to that, Christiane. I really I do think I mean, various things about different personality disorders, which he obviously has narcissism being an icon.
[Amanpour:] Well, his biographer says that he's very narcissistic.
[Cumming:] I think it's beyond that. There's definitely certain conditions like his absolute inability to take responsibility, or to understand why his lack of empathy might affect anyone around him are classic personality disorder traits.
[Amanpour:] Alan Cumming, thank you very much indeed for joining me.
[Cumming:] Thank you.
[Amanpour:] And now, from a weird world to a surreal presidential portrait. This official painting of the outgoing Estonian President Toomas Hendrik Ilves was unveiled today, playing up his signature bow tie. It is sure to be a unique entry in Estonia's collection of presidential portraits, and talking of one offs, the country's new president will for the first time be a woman. And speaking of first-time women, we go to Somalia next where Fadumo Dayib touches down to blast off with her bid of the presidency there. Imagining that after this.