[Howard Kurtz:] The magnifying power of the media is a powerful tool and can also be a dangerous weapon. How did one kooky pastor's plans to burn a bunch of Korans become an international sensation? Why did journalists fan the flames of anti-Muslim hatred by playing up the bizarre antics of Terry Jones? Should he have been on every morning show? The president meets the press he should do more of that, you know but can't escape questions about Koran burning and the so- called mosque in Manhattan. CNN turning over the Larry King franchise to Piers Morgan, a charming British fellow who serves as a judge on a televised talent show. But how much do Americans know about his controversial tabloid past? We'll have a full report. And David Westin resigns as president of ABC News after cutting a quarter of the staff. Can the broadcast networks overcome tough times and sinking ratings? I'm Howard Kurtz, and this is RELIABLE SOURCES. It wasn't very long ago that Terry Jones was an obscure pastor in Gainesville, Florida, who had written a book called "Islam is the Devil." And he might have remained in obscurity, except he came up with a stunt, a dangerous stunt, a provocative stunt, an inflammatory stunt. He would observe the ninth anniversary of 911 by burning a pile of Korans. Now, it started slowly, but this fringe character started to get some attention. In July, he spoke to CNN's Rick Sanchez.
[Rick Sanchez, Cnn:] Why would you want to do this to 1.5 billion people, as you say, in the world by burning their most sacred book? That's crazy.
[Pastor Terry Jones, Dove World Outreach Center:] Well, for one thing, for us, the book is not sacred.
[Sanchez:] But it is for them. But it is for them.
[Jones:] By us doing this action
[Sanchez:] So if I don't
[Kurtz:] And this week, just as the controversy over the so-called mosque in Manhattan seemed to be winding down, the media gave Terry Jones a mighty megaphone. When David Petraeus told "The Wall Street Journal" that such a bonfire might endanger American troops, the echo chamber got even louder.
[Katie Couric, Cbs News:] Before this week, most people had never heard of Pastor Terry Jones.
[Meredith Vieira, Nbc News:] Now one Florida church is planning to burn copies of the Koran on the anniversary of 911 this weekend.
[Diane Sawyer, Abc News:] Today the pope called on him to stop. And we asked the pastor, what would Jesus do?
[Ed Schultz, Msnbc:] Coming up, a psycho pastor in Florida is turning 911 into "Burn a Koran Day."
[Monica Crowley, Guest Host, "the O'reilly Factor":] Some kooks in Florida are plotting a very insulting display against Muslims later this week.
[Rachel Maddow, Msnbc:] Why burn the Koran? So that people will say the name of their congregation and their pastor on television, which personally I can't stomach.
[Terry Moran, Abc News:] Do you really think that Jesus Christ, if he were here today, would say, "Pastor, go burn that holy book"?
[Jones:] Absolutely.
[Moran:] Jesus Christ would say that?
[Jones:] Absolutely.
[Kurtz:] By midweek, ABC's George Stephanopoulos was asking the president to weigh in.
[George Stephanopoulos, Abc News:] I wonder what this must feel like from behind your desk. You're president of the United States, you have to deal with the fallout. And here's a pastor who has got 30 followers in his church. Does it make you feel helpless or angry?
[Barack Obama, President Of The United States:] Well, it is frustrating. Now, on the other hand, we are a government of laws, and so we have to abide by those laws.
[Kurtz:] The story got even stranger when Jones said he was calling off the book burning in exchange for a deal to move the controversial Islamic center in New York away from Ground Zero, except there was no deal, just more live coverage, more stories, more interviews. Finally, the pastor said yesterday there would be no book burning, which he announced, naturally enough, on "The Today Show." So are the media to blame for turning this revolting spectacle into an international circus? Joining us now, David Corn, Washington bureau chief for "Mother Jones" magazine; David Frum, founder of frumforum.com and a former speechwriter for President Bush; and Lauren Ashburn, presidents of Ashburn Media and former managing editor of "USA Today Live." I'm going to ask you for a concise answer, all of you, to this question: Why did the media lavish so much attention on one eccentric pastor with a couple of dozen followers for this pathetic stunt that he pulled? David Frum?
[David Frum, Frumforum.com:] Because when you have the mosque controversy in New York, you have one fact. When you have that, plus the book burning, you have a trend. And that justifies the "TIME" magazine cover and that allows people to cover the mosque story the way they really want to cover it.
[Kurtz:] Lauren Ashburn?
[Lauren Ashburn, President, Ashburn Media:] Ratings. Ratings, ratings, ratings, ratings. Right? I mean, why don't we cover President Obama's presser, right? Why don't we talk about that? Well, kind of not that interesting. I mean, what's interesting here is, oh, my gosh, here's this guy with 50 people who follow him, and he's going to burn a Koran.
[Kurtz:] And without the networks putting Terry Jones on TV, and without all these newspaper stories, David Corn, it's a non-story.
[David Corn, Washington Bureau Chief, "mother Jones":] I disagree. You know, it's not a problem this is what happens with our new media. You don't need to go through CNN, MSNBC, CBS, ABC to get your word out if you're a crazy kook with a matchbook and a Koran. By tweeting about it, which he did in early July, he got a few people who pay attention to these things to write about it in e-mail alerts. And then before you know it, people in other parts of the world are paying attention to this.
[Kurtz:] But not in the United States.
[Corn:] Not in the United States.
[Kurtz:] Yes.
[Corn:] And so their opposition is ginning up. And when General David Petraeus was asked about it in "The Wall Street Journal" interview, it wasn't because it was getting lots of coverage here. It had gotten some, but already there were plans of gigantic demonstrations in Afghanistan, Indonesia, and elsewhere. So, this shows in some way the helplessness. We all think this guy's a kook and shouldn't get the attention. And we'd like to see even though we used to complain about gatekeepers in the media, the gatekeepers in this instance keeping the gate shut on him, but that can't work anymore.
[Kurtz:] Well, Petraeus' people the Pentagon also pushed out his statement to a lot of media outlets. And a lot of people thought that really elevated the story. But why can't we serve as gatekeepers? Every newsroom every day gets a call about a small demonstration here, somebody with a crazy sign over there, here's a hostage tape from some country. We don't run all of that.
[Ashburn:] And we don't run suicides, either. I mean, right?
[Kurtz:] Somebody on a bridge.
[Ashburn:] People who want attention right, somebody who's going to jump off a bridge, they want that attention. Do we cover it? We absolutely do not.
[Frum:] But there's a pre-existing narrative. There were a lot of people this summer who wanted to write a story about America in the grip of anti-Islamic prejudice. And one incident does not prove your point to do. And that's why this was seized upon in the United States, it was necessary, it was valuable.
[Kurtz:] So do you think that the so-called liberal media pumped this up because here was a Christian leader, a small-time one, to be sure, who looked like a crazy bigot?
[Frum:] I don't think this was uncongenial.
[Kurtz:] You're saying there was a political element to this?
[Corn:] But at the same time, the people who track this stuff do say there is a rise in anti-Islam activity going on. And you can tie that to the controversy over the so-called mosque or the Islamic center or not. But it's interesting, one of the
[Frum:] People track this stuff in the FBI, and the FBI numbers don't say such a thing. And they come out 18 months late anyway.
[Kurtz:] I want to come back to the media role and I want to talk about Fox News, because I was surprised at first. Sean Hannity, Bill O'Reilly were playing this down, barely talking about it. And I thought, well, he's not a liberal loon. It turns out Fox had a deliberate strategy not to give oxygen to this story, and some would say Fox had it right.
[Ashburn:] And so did AP. AP made a decision on Thursday. They came out with a memo from the deputy managing editor that said we are not going to put audio or images out about this.
[Kurtz:] But let me ask you about that.
[Ashburn:] Wait. Wait. We are going to do one spot story a day.
[Kurtz:] OK.
[Ashburn:] Hey, context.
[Kurtz:] So Fox says if this had gone through yesterday, and there had been a bonfire in Gainesville, Fox News said it would not show the pictures. AP said it would not show the pictures. CNN changed its position. Originally, it was going to cover it, then it said it would not show the pictures. But can't you do that? Wouldn't those organizations be accused of suppressing the news?
[Ashburn:] But now there's also a problem now because of the because you've got an obligation.
[Corn:] It wouldn't matter because it would be on YouTube, and people who wanted to see it would see it, and it would be seen around the world by the people whose passions are inflamed. I think in the Fox News case, because they went so heavy on the so-called mosque controversy, this gave them the chance in their mind also to look reasonable. You know, I do think that a lot of the controversy over the Islamic center is fueled by anti-Islamic prejudice. Not all of it, but at the rally yesterday there were people shouting things like "Kill all Muslims!" and holding up signs that were just not anti-mosque, anti-Islam. And so there's a lot of that worked up into this controversy. But by saying we're not going to show one nut job, they could act like they're being responsible.
[Kurtz:] Back in July, when Terry Jones had tweeted he was going do this and it got a little of attention, most Americans were aware of this we saw the clip at the top of the show, Rick Sanchez putting him on CNN. Should he have done that? Why does Terry Jones warrant any air time at all?
[Frum:] Well, it is exciting, and that is a kind of tabloidy show. And you hope there's a part I think of every journalist's mind that sort of hopes for a big global reaction. One of the things I think we ought to be thinking a little bit about, though, is what is the precedent here that is being set? If we're to agree that things that might offend people on the other side of the planet are not to be discussed, is Salman Rushdie's book not to be discussed? Are the Danish cartoons not to be shown? We can all agree in condemning Pastor Jones as needlessly inflammatory. But sometimes people are needfully inflammatory.
[Kurtz:] But hold on here. My argument is that he didn't deserve much at all because he is essentially a fringe character. Now, if somebody with more of a following, with more of a standing, with more stature does something that's going to upset people in Afghanistan, I'm not saying we shouldn't cover that. I think this was a case of media malpractice of the most irresponsible sort. It's like the balloon boy hoax but with serious consequences
[Ashburn:] It's identical to that.
[Kurtz:] and people are really mad. Based on my e-mail, people saying people are really mad at the news organizations for what they did this week.
[Ashburn:] OK. But Howie, it's great that we're sitting here, that every week after week you're turning a critical lens on the media. But how many times are we going to sit here and fall for balloon boy and go after this guy? Why aren't we challenging the heads of networks and the heads of the cable divisions to say, all right, I want to find out who exactly made that decision to put that person on the air, and why did you to it? Did you do it because somebody at MSNBC had it and you had to beat them? Did you do it because you thought, oh, my gosh, ratings? And let's figure out who makes those decisions and put policies in place so that there is some sort of context.
[Corn:] I think you're right in that we spend the media spends so much more time on this issue, but it also had become an international event in which people were rioting and
[Kurtz:] There was a "New York Times" story in the last week of August. It still didn't get much traction until the Petraeus comment in "The Wall Street Journal."
[Corn:] I still think you have a problem here of trying to keep a lid on some of I think in terms of proportionality, it shouldn't get this attention. But I'm saying no matter what you would decide if you were running CNN, Howie, I don't think it would have had a big impact on keeping this guy off the screen, this crazy guy off the screen.
[Frum:] And this agreement, this agreement not to cover it, has dangerous potential, because we did go through this before. Every news organization in America agreed not to show the Danish cartoons, not to allow people to see what those were about. And that seems to me to have been wrong. And that was information that people were entitled to, and that was collaboration in a way with forces of suppression around the planet.
[Kurtz:] Just to be clear, I'm not calling for collusion. I'm calling for individual news organizations to make responsible decisions regardless of what everyone else is doing. Now, let me just play some tape here, because on Friday and this was when Terry Jones was starting to waver, maybe he wouldn't do it, he would delay it if he could see the imam in New York this guy was on every network morning show. And I thought the toughest interview was conducted by Meredith Vieira on "The Today Show." Let's take a look.
[Vieira:] When you incite hatred and bigotry, don't you expect this kind of outcome? You've incited this.
[Jones:] We do not feel responsible. We do not pull the trigger.
[Vieira:] There are people of all faiths, sir, today who are calling you intolerant, bigoted, dangerous. They've even called you crazy. What are you?
[Jones:] I am just a man who is trying to do what God has told us to do.
[Kurtz:] So, you're running "The Today Show." Would you put him on?
[Ashburn:] Absolutely not. I wouldn't have put him on first. At the point in which we are losing lives and people there's a chance here for this to turn into something extremely violent, then you have an obligation to stop it. In this instance the government saved the media. I mean, the media is the one that put this guy in charge, put him out there. And then all of a sudden, the government has to come in and say, OK, we're going to fix the
[Kurtz:] Look, you had Defense Secretary Gates
[Ashburn:] Yes.
[Kurtz:] But you seem most uncomfortable at this table with the notion of making a deliberate decision that this is not worth it.
[Frum:] Yes, because I know what's going to happen next time.
[Corn:] Tell us, David.
[Frum:] I'm completely with you. Obviously this guy is dismissible. This is not a story, you should not have made a fuss over it. But I am mindful of the Danish cartoon story when the gatekeepers did keep the gates, and did keep them wrongly. And next time there's going to be someone who is going to have something to say, something maybe more serious, that is going to be disliked by some people in the Islamic world. And there may be American and media collusion saying this person should not speak, this message should be silenced. And to have the president and the secretary of defense weighing in, I understand why they did it. In this circumstance they were right. But next time they won't be right. We need to be a little more careful here.
[Ashburn:] What is wrong with AP's view of this, which is let's limit it to a story a day? This is a small guy. What's wrong with that?
[Frum:] Nothing is wrong with that.
[Corn:] The media criticism, the answer is almost always proportionality, the amount of time we spend on this versus the amount of time we spend discussing Afghanistan strategy.
[Kurtz:] We often have our foot on the pedal way too hard. Let me show you how MSNBC's "Morning Joe" handled it. They had the pastor on. Mika Brzezinski turned it over to "Newsweek" editor Jon Meacham, who told pastor Jones this
[Jon Meacham, Editor, "newsweek":] I would simply appeal to you as a fellow Christian that the course you've suggested is going to be incredibly dangerous, and would ask you to desist in the name of new testament theology.
[Mika Brzezinski, Msnbc:] All right. Well said, Jon Meacham. And Pastor Terry Jones, we appeal to you to listen to that. And we don't really need to hear anything else. So thanks.
[Kurtz:] Didn't let him say a word.
[Ashburn:] We create this monster. We created this. You know, here, OK, we're the one who put him on, now we're the ones we're begging him not to do it.
[Kurtz:] So even cutting him of like that is fueling the flames?
[Ashburn:] Of course it is.
[Corn:] But there was some responsibility. Yesterday, at the rally against the Islamic center in downtown New York, there was at least one person someone sent me a photo burning a Koran. And you didn't see that plastered all over the media. You didn't see people running to interview this fellow. And so
[Kurtz:] And so a positive note on which to end. I've got to get a break. When we come back, the president meets the press, and he can't escape questions about the Koran-hating pastor. And the media's other favorite melodrama, the so-called mosque.