[Foster:] Well, days after the Brexit vote, far right politicians across Europe are calling for their own countries to follow in Britain's footsteps. On Saturday, French President Francois Hollande met with various political parties.
[Ward:] Among them the National Front is one of the loudest voices calling for France to have a referendum of its own. Its leader, Marine Le Pen, says she raised the issue with President Hollande and here's how she said he responded.
[Marine Le Pen, Leader, National Front:] To the question about a referendum taking place, he answered no. It's as if we had used a swear word, as if the people came last.
[Ward:] OK. Well, let's talk more about the fallout of the Brexit vote. Joining me to talk about it is Vivien Pertusot, he is the head of the Brussels office for the French Institute of International Relations. Let me start by asking you, is it possible that we could see a Frexit?
[Vivien Pertusot, French Institute Of International Relations:] It's very unlikely. It's true that there is a lot of love-hate in France regarding the E.U. at the moment and it's true that the E.U. has probably never been as unpopular as today in France. But at the same time, the debate has never been very hostile regarding the E.U. and the French have always had this ambiguous relationship with the E.U., loving the loving many things about the E.U. on the one hand and feeling that the E.U. is not French enough to a certain extent on the other. So it's true that there is call for a referendum and you just had Marine Le Pen on. This is one thing and you can see this growing. But I don't think that we can expect a Frexit anytime soon.
[Foster:] But it does strip from her cause, doesn't it, and she's consistently growing over time and that narrative is growing in France. As you think Brexit ultimately will have an influence on that movement in France and pushing it towards not independence but coming out of the
[E.u. Pertusot:] Well, it's certain that Brexit is and will be a boost for most eurosceptic parties across Europe and it's true for France as well. France is also quite particular because the eurosceptic movements or at least the eurocritical movements come from the far right and the far left. So you have on both sides you have very critical voices against the E.U. at the moment. But when it comes to the National Front in particular, it's true that Marine Le Pen's calls to have a referendum and even maybe to leave the E.U. has been boosted by Brexit. But and that this cause is becoming ever more popular in France but, at the same time, I don't think that if the French were put in front of the choice of leaving or remaining in the E.U., you'd have a majority of people saying we want to leave the E.U. For many reasons, but one of them is that there's still this sense of responsibility of ownership in France regarding the E.U. It's a little bit our project to a certain extent and this is not always true in some other countries and certainly not in the U.K., clearly.
[Ward:] When you talk to people on the streets in Paris and Brussels, do you get the sense that, amongst most people, there's resentment against the U.K. for opening Pandora's box, if you will?
[Pertusot:] It's I mean, the French have been there have been a few polls and you can hear that as well on the street and in conversations, that the French have been the most ambivalent regarding the U.K.'s remaining with the E.U. And in the past few weeks you had polls saying that the French were among the few Europeans saying, well, maybe Brexit is a good thing. But at the same time, there is this feeling of not believing that the U.K. could actually leave the E.U. And I was in Paris, actually, on the day of the referendum and the day after and all the conversations that I had, all the people that I talked to were quite baffled really by the result and they went to bed with the first results or at least the first expectations, saying that it will be Remain. And they were quite confident and then they woke up and it was a Leave vote. And all of the people that I talked to were very surprised because they thought that, in the end, the British voters would say, yes, we want to remain.
[Foster:] I think a lot of Brits felt that way as well. Vivien, thank you very much indeed. Let's talk about independence proper now then. Scotland's first minister saying the country will likely seeing independence from the U.K. again. And Nicola Sturgeon says a second referendum is very much an option as the government considers its next move following the Brexit vote. We're going to go to David McKenzie. He's in Edinburgh, Scotland. And you got a you got a good perspective on this, David, because you've flown into Scotland. People there are very much caught up in independence, it's been you know, they've grown up with that debate. And it's grown with them. But you're going in there and getting a taste of what it's like today. How palpable is it?
[David Mckenzie, Cnn Correspondent:] It's very palpable, Max. And here at the Edinburgh Kiltmakers, it's a shop that sells kilts, Scottish wares, mostly for tourists. And I have to point out this is the McKenzie tartan. And what we have here is really a sense of some of the struggles of Scottish and people who live in Scotland are having, both from a business sense and just a personal sense. I'm here with David, who works here on the weekends but is also an entrepreneur in the tourist industry. So David, some of your E.U. citizens you employ, how are they feeling right now?
[David, Tourism Entrepreneur:] So we are a company which we work with locals or people who live here on the
[Mckenzie:] And now you're and the people you work, are they worried that there's an eventuality they might have to leave Scotland?
[David:] Yes, there's a problem of uncertainty and, myself, we're not sure if it will affect the travel, affect the airlines or the visas. In my mind, in that case, it means there will be less people coming into Scotland or into U.K. And what Scotland will be independent from the U.K. And that's how it's going to affect it because the internal travel within the U.K., it's also quite massive.
[Mckenzie:] So a lot of people are feeling the uncertainty. That's not good for business generally. But then also, I mean, the sentiment from the Scots you talk to, they all most of them voted to remain in the E.U. What's the feeling right now?
[David:] Everyone is confused. That's the feeling. That's the exact feeling. Yes, currently we are doing really good. We're doubling our the number of tourists every month. However, it does not have kicked in yet. As soon as the rules and regulations will kick in, we don't know what's going to happen. And the Scots will be Scotland also doesn't know and there's a referendum probably come in, second one, as the leader of Scottish Party said. We're not sure. Everyone is confused. Everyone is stressed.
[Mckenzie:] And there also there's a sense that, well, of betrayal might be too strong of a word, but that the English has made the decision for the Scots.
[David:] I am not sure if that will be strong or not or if it will be the correct terms to use. But obviously, I think no one was expecting and no one in England and there are a lot of people who wanted to leave now, they want to change their votes because that was as an expression of themselves but not actually wanting to leave the
[U.k. Mckenzie:] Excellent, Thank you so much, David. There you have it, Max. David here, who works here on the weekends but runs a tourism business that employs a lot of E.U. citizens, they're worried both for now in terms of themselves and their kids maybe, but also for the future business of travel in and out of Scotland. That uncertainty is one of the key factors now that people are dealing with in Scotland. And they're trying to politically push through remaining in the E.U Max.
[Foster:] David, thank you, having his own agenda, just flying in. In a matter of hours, he finds his own tartan.
[Ward:] His own tartan, unbelievable.
[Foster:] Really, unbelievable.
[Ward:] Well, Northern Ireland voted to stay in the E.U. by a wide margin. Now there have been calls there to hold a referendum to unite with the Republic of Ireland to the south. Now we're very lucky. We have Brian O'Connell, he's a U.K. consultant director with the British Irish Chamber of Commerce. He joins us now. Could Britain's loss be Ireland's gain? Will the Brexit be a boon for Ireland potentially?
[Brian O'connell, British Irish Chamber Of Commerce:] Yes, there has been talk about the possibility of increased foreign direct investment, particularly with parts of the city moving to Dublin and that kind of thing. But, overall, it probably would not be that much of a bonus for Ireland if you also take into account the trading losses that would occur between Britain and Ireland if Britain were outside the European customs union. And then suddenly there were tariffs and duties and that kind of stuff and all those sort of impediments to trade. Trade at the moment between the two islands is worth about 1.2 billion euros a year, around about 1 billion sterling every sorry, every week I beg your pardon 1 billion sterling every week. That's a huge amount of money for both countries. Britain is Ireland's biggest trading partner. Ireland is Britain's fifth biggest trading partner. Britain exports more stuff to Ireland, including financial services and all that kind of stuff, than it does to India, China, Brazil combined.
[Foster:] There has been a bit of a precedent, though, with us, hasn't there, a lot of technology companies keeping the bulk of their staff in the U.K. but having their headquarters in Dublin. Could that be a model for a future setup as Britain leaves the European Union?
[O'connell:] It possibly could. What makes Ireland attractive, for particularly American companies, is its low rates of corporation tax. But if Britain were outside the E.U., they could certainly compete with Ireland for that sort of investment. There's no there will be nothing to stop them doing that. But certainly for the next couple of years, as we go into this Article 50 negotiation, exit negotiation process that everybody is talking about at the moment, there's going to be a lot of uncertainty. And uncertainty generally in any country is bad for business. It puts off investors. Everybody just puts the brakes on whatever they were going to do. We've seen that in the city in the run-up to this referendum. That's bad for business, certainly as far as the British Irish Chamber of Commerce is concerned, as we shift into new regulatory environments, whether it's corporation tax or anything else. We're going to have to work our way through that. And that's what the British Irish Chamber of Commerce is about at the moment.
[Foster:] Yes, keeping everyone busy.
[Ward:] Absolutely.
[Foster:] Thank you very much. The world is coming to terms with this new reality in the U.K. and it's been rough on the trading floor as we've been hearing. We'll discuss how the U.S. is reacting to the Brexit vote next.
[Ward:] Plus: the flood devastation in the U.S. state of West Virginia is just coming into view. That and much more when we come back.