[Don Lemon, Cnn Tonight Show:] Donald Trump takes aim at another rival. This is CNN Tonight. I'm Don Lemon. The mogul to be your next president has spared no one from Hillary Clinton, to Jeb Bush, to Rand Paul. Now, it's Joe Biden's turn.
[Donald Trump, U.s. Presidential Candidate:] I think they match up great. I'm a job producer. I've had a great record. I haven't been involved in plagiarism. I think I would match up very well against Biden.
[Lemon:] That is what he told conservative radio host Hugh Hewitt. He is here tonight and one of the moderators of the next debate right here on CNN. Plus, the year of the outsider from Donald Trump to Bernie Sanders. We're going to talk to Dan Rather and Frank Bruni. And also this exclusive story that will shock you. A Texas woman is pulled over by police and allegedly strip searched right in the middle of a gas station parking lot. And you won't believe why. But I want to begin with the day in Trump. Donald Trump just released a new no holds barred campaign ad targeting President Obama as well as Hillary Clinton and Bill Clinton. Take a look at it. Joining me now Dan Rather, host of AXS TV is the big interview, and New York Times columnist, Frank Bruni. Do you know how nerve racking that is to have you watch me do my
[Dan Rather, Axs Tv:] Oh, I would know till you're rocking it all.
[Lemon:] Hey, let me ask you this, Mr. Rather, have you ever seen anything like this in all of your years of covering politics like this republican?
[Rather:] I have not. I'm fund of saying I've been to Goat Roping's and space shots and then covering presidents of campaigns for a long time. I have never seen anything like this. And the fact is, neither has anyone else. You know, it is for better or worse historic time in that no party in the history of the country has ever had this many candidates running for their party's nomination.
[Lemon:] I know you're not a betting man. But what are the odds if he becomes the nominee?
[Rather:] Donald Trump?
[Lemon:] Yes.
[Rather:] It's been shortly that I'm frequently wrong as you know about things but I said in the beginning, Trump is going to be he run stronger and longer and a lot of people thinking many republicans fear. He definitely tapped into something. And I know that the other candidates see him as sort of a sun powered perpetual motion all-American [inaudible] machine. But a large section of his party doesn't seem that way. I doubt you see useful betting. If you had to bet the rent money, and I hope you don't, you wouldn't bet that he gets the nomination.
[Lemon:] Yes.
[Rather:] But I do hope that he'll go pretty deep into the primary caucus process.
[Lemon:] Yes. Frank, you know, Donald Trump didn't think that the debate went so well. What did you think about the debate, did anyone stand out to you? Did you think it was fair?
[Frank Bruni, New York Times Op-ed Columnist:] I think a couple people benefited from it. John Kasich benefited from it, for sure. You know, if he got a little more time, Chris Christie might have I think Marco Rubio benefited from it. But I don't think anyone can benefit that much when there are 10 people on stage. You know, there is all this controversy that six people are being relegated or seven people to a different stage. Even with 10, no one could really make that much of an impression. I do think that Trump did himself some harm. It may be able a little bit of harm. It may not be showing up in the big way in the polls yet. But I think bit by bit, day by day, week by week, you are going to see him fade. He really are.
[Lemon:] One of my mentors used to tell me to bloom where you're planted. And I think Carly Fiorina did that, even though she was in the so-called second tier debate or what have you, but she said, I'm going to be here and I'm going to make this work. She made it work for her.
[Bruni:] She's a fiercely eloquent woman. I remember years ago, I did a profiling to her when she was running against Boxer for the Times Magazine. I spent a whole week with her. And I remember the first speech I went to. I thought, well, I had no idea she was this good of a communicator. She was this fiercely eloquent. She's got other problems and right now, she's having her moment. Whether that moment will last, big, big question. We shouldn't make too much Dan and I were talking about this beforehand. Any 24-hour period feels significant, but we shouldn't make too much of it.
[Rather:] Well, Dr. Carson also helped himself.
[Bruni:] Absolutely.
[Rather:] I'm not saying enough to go all the way but he certainly helped himself.
[Lemon:] Yes. And he showed humor. He said, I was thinking that. I wasn't going to get, you know, another chance to speak. And he...
[Rather:] But he also said on when he went up to stage he's actually separated a Siamese twins.
[Lemon:] Yes.
[Rather:] Maybe in the best line of it of the debate.
[Lemon:] Yes. We're going to have him on with us soon and I can't wait to have a very respected man. But, Mr. Rather, I want to ask you about this about Jeb Bush. He has a lot of money behind him. But he's really having a hard time when he comes to connecting what some of the voters especially in the polls. He is tied for sixth place in CNN's Iowa poll, second place behind Trump in the latest New Hampshire's State poll. Is he in trouble?
[Rather:] I think it's too early to say he's in trouble. But he should be worried because he comes off all too often as at least slightly bored or perhaps as a man whose shoes hurt him. And speaking of being of time, a strong communicator. I don't mean to spare him at all. He's a former governor...
[Bruni:] Jeb Bush is unfortunately shocked candidate, right?
[Lemon:] Listen. He has done, in many people's estimation, a poor job of answering questions, 1979, this was Ted Kennedy when you asked him why he wanted to be president, right?
[Bruni:] Actually Roger Mudd.
[Lemon:] Mr. Roger Mudd asked it. And then he fumbled the answer. Did that remind you of that?
[Rather:] Very much so. And I think it's right on point. When Ted Kennedy was going to run against the incumbent President Jimmy Carter, he sat down for a lengthy CBS News interview with Roger Mudd. When Roger asked him, you know, why did you want to be president, it was hum, hum, hum, he didn't have an answer. Now, rightly or wrongly, fairly or unfairly, I think that Governor Bush strikes a lot of people, including a lot of people who were inclined to like him as in that mode, who are saying, well, why is he here. Also, when he speaks, whether it's true or not, it appears to be can same-old, same-old, sort of plain vanilla kind of talk and he doesn't crack through. Whereas with Trump, like him or don't like him, he comes off with galore along the loop patience with all of these candidates standing up there and that's a big difference.
[Lemon:] We miss those "Ratherisms." But is he correct in that it's hard to even to let me just is he saying nicely that Jeb Bush is just deadly doll up there?
[Bruni:] People are not seeing in Jeb Bush in Jeb Bush the passion that I think they want to see in a candidate. It's what they saw in Carly Fiorina in that pre-debate debate. It's what they see in Trump for better or worse, they see fire. They see passion. Jeb Bush is going to have to figure out how to communicate that if he wants to get the nomination.
[Lemon:] I want to get this in order. But I want to talk you about the Iowa state fair. CNN's Iowa poll has Trump leading. But in 2012, it was Rick Santorum leading who won. Before that is was Mike Huckabee, is Iowa a good bellwether you think for whoever is going to eventually win this race?
[Bruni:] No. I think it's increasingly it's not a good bellwether. I think it's becoming it's becoming a less good bellwether all the time. I think we are all in the media page and much attention to it because it's convenient and easy.
[Rather:] I agree. In one point about where Jeb Bush stands at the moment, he has the most money of any candidate and Trump is not a special case for the moment. And the good book says the race is not always to the swift nor the battle to the strong. But as reporters who have been cynical we say that is the way to bet it. And Jeb Bush is playing a long game. He has the money to do it. He has the unlimited resources. He has an extensive staff and he's active in every state in the country. So, it's too early to count him out.
[Lemon:] Let's turn to the democrat. Now, Frank, I want to ask you about Hillary Clinton about turning her private server over to the FBI issue is dogging her on the campaign trail. Is this big trouble for her politically?
[Bruni:] She's got a very real and enduring problem and this week is a great example. So, she went out there and she gave a very thoughtful policy speech. College debt, how to relieve it, what the government should do. A lot of particulars. A lot of bells and whistles. No one talked about it. All anybody could still talk about was the e-mail server. Until this gets behind her, no one is going to hear anything else. And the problem now is she's not in control of this narrative. There is an investigation going on. She can't just make a speech, issue a few press releases and hope to move on. Events are out of her control right now.
[Lemon:] There's also the Bernie Sanders department who got her, the Bernie Sanders factor. He's drawing really huge crowds. He's now ahead of her in the New Hampshire State poll. I mean, and he's like I said, big crowds. He's got...
[Bruni:] He's not going to get the nomination, but he makes her look weak.
[Lemon:] OK. Dan.
[Rather:] Well, any candidate running for any office who'd rather walk through a border fire fire gasoline suit. They're not being able to control the narrative. And this is a very important point to make. That Hillary is no longer in charge of the narrative. And she has out there, it's in the distance, but you have vice president Biden, up and throwing in the bull pen. John Kerry is loosening up. And now, just tonight, I saw for the first time that I've been around for a few days, numbers that Al Gore might be thinking about getting into the race.
[Lemon:] I was just you just took my question. Al Gore and there's Joe Biden.
[Rather:] Yes. Well, way too early to count Hillary out. Speaking of long game, she has finances, she has organizations, she is playing a long game. But too early to say that she's in deep trouble. But if you think there has to be concern in the Clinton camp. Not being able to control his narrative.
[Lemon:] And as you said, the party is this a sign, Frank, the party is not solid on her, if Al Gore is considering and Joe Biden is considering as well?
[Bruni:] I don't think the party is asking themselves are we solid on her. I think they're asking themselves, are going to be burned if we put too many chips on her. And they're asking themselves that more and more every week. But they don't have a great alternative yet.
[Lemon:] What do you guys looking forward to the debate on the 16th? We saw the last debate and how that went, what do you looking for to first you, Mr. Rather.
[Rather:] Well, might the same thing I was look I was looking for in the first debate that is who distinguishes themselves. And talked to Frank, I think Marco Rubio will help himself. Dr. Carson will help himself, you know, who helps himself. The secondly, is there anybody to take Trump on. Right now, most of the rest of the party of the other candidates is saying he's going to he take position, he's going to burn himself out. Going to flame out at some point. Which he may indeed do, but now they all grows a little later. So, did anybody take Trump on? The third thing looking for is a bit more substance. I'm not being critical. The talks have been debated all I thought they pulled it off very good. They got off rather quickly. But how tough is the questions? How good are the good questions and for us more important, how good all the follow up questions.
[Lemon:] Come on. You're fashioned that. I thought you're going to say, the third one I can't remember. You guys are talking about, right?
[Rather:] Listen, at my age and state, that's always a threat.
[Lemon:] Thank you. Always a pleasure to have you, gentlemen. Thank you so much.
[Rather:] Thank you.
[Lemon:] Good to see you.
[Bruni:] Thank you.
[Lemon:] Thank you very much. Coming up, expect fireworks from Donald Trump at the next GOP debate right here on CNN. When we come right back, I'm going to ask one of the moderators of that debate. Conservative radio host Hugh Hewitt, what he thinks of Trump. Plus, a shocking story of law and disorder. My exclusive interview with a Texas woman who says deputies strip searched her in the middle of a gas station parking lot. And wait until you hear why.