[Lemon:] So, the president took to Twitter today to amplify an unhinged conspiracy theory about 75-year-old protester Martin Gugino. Tonight, Gugino has been upgraded to fair condition after he suffered a head injury when he was pushed to the ground by police officers. And in his tweet today the president alleging that the peaceful protester could be an antifa provocateur and suggesting that it might have been a setup. Let's discuss now with Vicki Ross. She is a close friend of Martin Gugino and the executive director of the Western New York Peace Center. Vicki, thank you so much. I know you're reading that. It sounds like a generic sort of hospital update on how he's doing. How is he doing?
[Vicki Ross, Martin Gugino's Friend:] Well, he has been in a lot of pain, and we've been very worried, but the fact he's now out of the ICU we're feeling very encouraged, but it's going to be slow. That's what they say, it's going to take a while.
[Lemon:] Well, we wish him well and we thank you for joining us. So, the president is
[Ross:] I'm
[Lemon:] Thank you. So, the president is smearing your friend. What did you think when you read that today, Vicki?
[Ross:] Well, of course I have to say not at all surprised because we have seen such lying and misinformation regularly, just ridiculous statement out of the White House. So, this is baseless, ridiculous. This man, Martin, truly his signature characteristic is nonviolent. His interest at the Western New York Peace Center where I'm the director or his devotion to the Catholic worker principles and people, to the Kings Bay Plowshares, et cetera, just show how much he's dedicated to true nonviolence of every kind. So, the idea that he is violent in any way is ridiculous. As we know, Vergil said, you know, the more outrageous the lie, effectively the more outrageous the lie, the more people will believe it.
[Lemon:] When did you first see this video?
[Ross:] I saw it at about two o'clock in the morning that follow on Friday, you know, two o'clock in the morning because I was so done in when I got home, you know, that I wasn't you know, I didn't see it until later.
[Lemon:] And then
[Ross:] And then it's been shocking and it's been crazy around here, you know, with the fall back fall out.
[Lemon:] Are you are you worried that the president may have essentially painted a target on your friend
[Ross:] Absolutely.
[Lemon:] and then he'll become the victim of threat to some sorts because that happens when the president tweets about you. I know that from experience.
[Ross:] Well, because when we talk about who are the people who are violent? It's the president who is encouraging violence. It is his followers who are walking around with guns and who don't get called to account for it. So, the racial difference, and also the firepower difference is incredible. But when we see the violence that has been fomented by the president in so many times and ways it's a very major concern. And he will be in the hospital, and he will be kept in the hospital until we can be sure that he's going to be safe and secure wherever he is.
[Lemon:] It's painful to put I have to turn away when they play that video. I mean it's painful. And just, again, you know, Vicki, you said the Erie County executive said that his condition has been upgraded from serious to fair tonight. And I read that earlier
[Ross:] Right.
[Lemon:] what the hospital said, but you are saying that he's been in a lot of pain. And the attorney says in a statement that Martin holds no ill will towards the officers. That doesn't surprise you, does it?
[Ross:] No, it doesn't because Martin is a loving person. And actually nonviolence, the way that, you know, Catholic workers or we try to practice it as Dr. King said, or as Gandhi said, you know, not hating or blaming. So that forgiveness, the fact that was done was like the military maneuver. The militarization of the police is a huge problem for us as a country, that the fact that tanks and all kinds of military equipment, apparatus, assault weapon and everything else are being held by our police on our streets, that is dangerous to us. That's the danger. That's where the violence comes. And in fact we've seen in Buffalo when things ramped up because there was too much police presence we never should have had all those extra officers on the first protest, and it just erupted because of the fights like trees, it hits the roof when there's too many police around with a lot of weapons of mass destruction or, you know, just
[Lemon:] With the tactical or riot tactical or riot gear. Let me ask you this, Vicki, the officers who pushed Martin they have been charged with felony assault.
[Ross:] Right.
[Lemon:] Do you have faith in that process? And what brought and what about broader reforms do you hope to see from policing and just come out of this incident?
[Ross:] Well, we're working very hard in Buffalo on that, and actually we were working on it very hard before this happened, the tragedy with George Floyd. So, we had our own incident in Buffalo and we had other previous history of incidents and death death and racist practices in Buffalo in the police department. Not that there aren't some good police. There are great there are some community police you know, some people know how to talk to people. But we are working for reform and for drastic change. We need some honestly, I believe we're at the fork in the road as Yogi Berra said. And when we take right now not just about the policing but in so many ways the way we handle things is going to make all the difference, and our democracy is certainly at risk, and our very survival is at risk with the nuclear weapons and climate catastrophe
[Lemon:] Yes.
[Ross:] and people are at risk with all the other things. So, I feel like we have we have a lot of work to do, but people are doing it. And one thing I say, restorative justice is a way to handle these issues
[Lemon:] OK.
[Ross:] because it is such a big problem. It's not just one people ask me what would Martin want to have done with these officers, and I want to say that's what restorative justice is about. It puts the victim, the offender and the community together to just discuss what happened, what was the damage done, how can the damage be repaired. And this is
[Lemon:] Your I appreciate your passion, and thank you for joining us. We are out of time, and I have to say
[Ross:] Thank you.
[Lemon:] that's a really lovely piece of artwork behind you. Thank you, Vicki, and give our best to your friend. OK?
[Ross:] I will.
[Lemon:] Thank you so much. And we'd love to have him on. Please invite him.
[Ross:] Sure. When that date comes, we'll be glad.
[Lemon:] Tell him we'd love to have him on the show. Thank you.
[Ross:] Thanks, Don.
[Lemon:] You take care.
[Ross:] Thank you.
[Lemon:] Dr. Anthony Fauci says the coronavirus is this is a quote from him "his worst nightmare" and he is warning it isn't over yet, his words. Next.