[Berman:] We spoke in the last segment to the uncle of the man who was barely mentioned in passing by the President during his visit to Kenosha, Wisconsin today, Jacob Blake who was shot and is paralyzed from the waist down. He was shot by a Kenosha police officer. Joining us now, the President's top campaign spokesperson, Trump 2020 Director of Communications, Tim Murtaugh. Tim, I'm so glad you're here. Thank you for joining us. I want to play for you something that President Trump said.
[Trump:] And in the plane, it was almost completely loaded with thugs, wearing these dark uniforms, black uniforms with gear and this and that, and this person was coming to the Republican National Convention. And they were like seven people on the plane, like this person, and then a lot of people are on the plane to do big damage.
[Berman:] Tim, what specifically is he talking about there?
[Tim Murtaugh, Director Of Communications, Trump 2020:] Well, I don't have all the information that the President has access to. But we know that the people who have gone to these violent riots
[Berman:] I'm sorry, Tim. I'm sorry, Tim. I'm talking about a plane trip. I was talking about a plane trip that was coming to the Convention, which is a political event.
[Murtaugh:] I just John
[Berman:] Do you have any information about the people on this plane or the flight?
[Murtaugh:] I just told you I don't have access to the same information that the President has. But John, let me ask you a question about this. The people that we saw harassing folks outside the White House in Washington on Thursday night, those people knew the names of regular Americans who were coming out of the White House. The National Committee man from New Hampshire was harassed on the streets and the protester knew his name, John. How do you think that happened?
[Berman:] So Tim, I'm sorry. You're a spokesperson for the President
[Murtaugh:] How did these protesters
[Berman:] I'm sorry. I'm sorry because I'm asking you a question about something the President has now said twice. The President essentially described an airborne assault or at least an air transport assault on a convention. And you as a senior spokesman for the campaign says you have no information on it. How can it be that you have no information on it?
[Murtaugh:] Well, I don't work for one of the law enforcement agencies of the Federal government.
[Berman:] This was a political event.
[Murtaugh:] But someone is organizing someone is organizing these trips. Someone is transporting these people from other states into these other cities.
[Berman:] Tim, can you
[Murtaugh:] In Kenosha, 102 people who were rescued out of 175 came from a different state, John.
[Berman:] Can you give me one piece of evidence tonight?
[Murtaugh:] I can give you. I can give you statistics.
[Berman:] That there any flight that there was any flight carrying these people that the President is describing.
[Murtaugh:] John, why don't you explain to me how the protesters on the street knew the name of the National Committee man from New Hampshire. Would you know him if you saw him? Would you be able to identify him by name on the street and chase him down the street? Would you know that person?
[Berman:] I want to play you I want to play you, Tim I want to play you
[Murtaugh:] How do these people know the identities of the people that they are assigned to harass, John? How does that happen?
[Berman:] Tim, I want to play you something again, you're a spokesperson
[Murtaugh:] If no one is organizing these things
[Berman:] You're a spokesperson for the President's reelection campaign
[Murtaugh:] If no one is organizing them, how do they know who they are?
[Berman:] I'm talking about a flight.
[Murtaugh:] This is not John Legend coming out of the White House, John.
[Berman:] I am talking about a flight.
[Murtaugh:] This is a regular American
[Berman:] I am talking about a flight that the Commander-in-Chief has mentioned not once, but twice. Let me play this again for you. Listen.
[Trump:] And in the plane, it was almost completely loaded with thugs, wearing these dark uniforms, black uniforms with gear and this and that. This person was coming to the Republican National Convention. And they were like seven people on the plane, like this person, and then a lot of people are on the plane to do big damage. The entire plane filled up with the looters, the anarchists, the rioters, people that obviously we're looking for trouble. This was a firsthand account of a plane going from Washington to wherever.
[Berman:] So the first version of the story, he said the plane was going to Washington. The second version today. He said it was leaving D.C., which one is it, Tim?
[Murtaugh:] John, again, I don't know who told the President that but it is undeniable that these people, these rioters are coming from other cities and other states. The mayor of Minneapolis said that 80 percent of the people who were arrested in the Minneapolis riots came from other places. A hundred and two people who were arrested in Kenosha, Wisconsin, out of 175 were not from Kenosha. Someone is organizing. Someone is sending to them in these cities.
[Berman:] The President wasn't talking about people coming from other state lines.
[Murtaugh:] And let me tell you, John
[Berman:] I am sorry, Tim. But the President of the United States twice has told a very specific story albeit a contradictory story. I will state once again, he's the Commander-in-Chief. He controls the military. So when he says something about this, when he presents the idea of again this airborne assault, whether it be coming to Washington or leaving Washington, it's important. And all I want to know is if it's in any way tethered to reality. Did it happen? And I think what you're telling me, you have no
[Murtaugh:] It's absolutely tethered to reality, John.
[Berman:] You have no you have no proof.
[Murtaugh:] We know that all of these people are coming from other places.
[Berman:] Do you have proof that these flights happened?
[Murtaugh:] How do you suppose they traveled? Who is putting them up in the hotels, John?
[Berman:] Tim, did he invest this story?
[Murtaugh:] Who is paying all of their expenses?
[Berman:] Did he invent this story?
[Murtaugh:] How do they know the identities of normal Americans that they are supposed to seek out and harass on the streets, John?
[Berman:] Did he invent the story did he invent the story about the plane, Tim?
[Murtaugh:] How do they have all of this information? How can they have all of this information? We haven't
[Berman:] You can't give me evidence you can't you can't give me information.
[Murtaugh:] Listen, you know what we haven't heard?
[Berman:] You're talking about it but I am talking about
[Murtaugh:] And you're welcome to grill me, John. You're welcome to grill me. Have you ever asked Joe Biden why he hasn't denounced Antifa?
[Berman:] Joe Biden? You know, Joe Biden did not
[Murtaugh:] He hasn't singled out
[Berman:] Joe Biden, in the last Tim, you're not answering the question.
[Murtaugh:] These are leftwing violent protesters, John.
[Berman:] Tim, you're not answering the question.
[Murtaugh:] Why don't you ask the Democrats to condemn the Democrats? I have gone over this with you.
[Berman:] You're not answering the question.
[Murtaugh:] Four or five times.
[Berman:] And I have to believe, Tim...
[Murtaugh:] We know absolutely that they've come from other places.
[Berman:] ... that you can't answer the question.
[Murtaugh:] There are police arrest records for this, John.
[Berman:] Was there a flight, Tim?
[Murtaugh:] You think they just used the Star Trek transporter and appeared in Washington, John?
[Berman:] Can you point me to the flight that the President talked about twice? Can you talk to me
[Murtaugh:] How do you suppose they all arrived in Washington, John, if not from an airplane?
[Berman:] Tim?
[Murtaugh:] How do you suppose 102 people arrested in Wisconsin not from the area.
[Berman:] Let me ask you this, Tim. Let me ask you this.
[Murtaugh:] Eighty percent of the protesters arrested in Minneapolis are not from the area.
[Berman:] Okay, you can't you cannot
[Murtaugh:] Did they miracle themselves into those towns, John?
[Berman:] You cannot confirm to me, Tim.
[Murtaugh:] Did they miracle themselves there?
[Berman:] You cannot confirm to me
[Murtaugh:] How do you posit that they showed up?
[Berman:] Tim, Tim. Stop. Stop. Let me ask a question here. All right. Now, as you have so far not confirmed any specific flight either coming to or leaving Washington that the President mentioned. Let me point out to you that this mirrors this conspiracy theories that's been circulating online since June, a police department in Idaho even looked into it, this idea that people were being moved around the country in flights wearing all kinds of black t-shirts. Is it possible the President read this and he is just regurgitating and getting some of the details wrong? Is that possible?
[Murtaugh:] Look, Rand Paul has told a similar story and we have a Member of Congress who has called for congressional hearings to look in into who is funding these outrageous riots that by the way, Joe Biden has not identified as leftwing riots because that's what they are. He's too weak to stand up to the leftwing of his party and denounce these riots for what they are because he is absolutely in the control of the anti-police wing of today's Democratic Party.
[Berman:] Okay, None of that
[Murtaugh:] We know without a question of doubt, John.
[Berman:] None of that addresses
[Murtaugh:] That these rioters are coming from outside of the areas where these riots occur.
[Berman:] None of these addresses Tim, you've got no proof.
[Murtaugh:] We know it. Absolutely.
[Berman:] We just talked we just talked for minutes and you say you've got no proof.
[Murtaugh:] And you know it. Your own network has reported.
[Berman:] You've got no proof.
[Murtaugh:] Your own network has reported about there are arrests in Kenosha from outside the Kenosha area. Your own reporting shows that.
[Berman:] All right, Tim. Tim Murtaugh. Call us when you have information about these flights that the President has twice because as of now, we have got nothing.
[Murtaugh:] Call me when you will admit that these are leftwing rioters, John coming from outside the region where the riots are occurring.
[Berman:] Tim Murtaugh, thank you very much for being with us. Appreciate it, Tim. Perspective now from CNN political analyst and "New York Times" White House correspondent Maggie Haberman. Also with, CNN senior political commentator and former Obama senior adviser, David Axelrod and CNN political commentator, Bakari Sellers, who is the author of "My Vanishing Country: A Memoir," a country that you could reach on any number of flights in and out of Washington. No doubt. Maggie Haberman, I wanted to press Tim on that, because it's one of these things now that the President has mentioned twice. And, you know, he's done this for years. And people may toss it off as oh, it's just what the President does, it is just what the President does. It seems as we sit here tonight that the President has invented out of thin air this story of this flight coming in and out, and we've got no details here. So what do you make of it all?
[Maggie Haberman, Cnn Political Analyst:] Right. Look, John, officials of the White House say that the President has been briefed on concerns emphasis on concerns that there might be folks who are being paid to agitate and create unrest around the protest. That's not new. We've heard Bill Barr, the Attorney General say some version of that publicly. What is new is this this elaborate story the President tells about a plane and people boarding it down to the number of people boarding it. And then suddenly everybody realized they weren't looters and rioters. It's changed directions. The President has a history of making up stories, of manufacturing incidents and events that have happened. This may be one of them. It may not be one of them. But it's incumbent upon the White House or the President to say what he is talking about when he is the President and when he is talking about a moment of deep strife in this country.
[Berman:] You know, again, it's this conspiracy he has created which depicts this airborne transport of demonstrators around the country. If he's going to say it, he should come forward with proof, and David, there are moments when the President of the United States again, the Commander-in-Chief talks like a spam e-mail or a Facebook post that you might see from some crazy aunt or uncle. We all have them. I'm not speaking specifically of any of my relatives as far as you know, but some of these posts work. So do people hear this?
[David Axelrod, Cnn Senior Political Commentator:] Look, I think a portion of the public hears it and receives it. His base hears it and receives it. But you know, the thing that was interesting to me about that conversation other than his inability to answer your question was his continuing reference to out-of-state people coming into these cities to be disruptive and there was no mention of the 17-year-old kid from Illinois, Kyle Rittenhouse, who drove or whose mother drove him apparently over to Kenosha where he, with his semiautomatic weapon, killed two people and is now indicted for murder. The President of the United States more than having the responsibility to tell the truth really has the responsibility not to foment violence in a way that leads to loss of life. And you know, I think Joe Biden was pretty clear yesterday whether he mentioned Antifa or not that he was very, very strongly condemning violence. And he told people, if you think you're bringing about change by doing this, you're wrong. But we haven't heard that from the President. We didn't hear it yesterday. He defended this young man and made a self- defense argument for this young man. He didn't or rebuke, I should say, his supporters in Portland who drove in in a caravan and stirred things up the other night. He is not helping. He is stirring up conflict because he thinks it's in his political interest. And I must say, and this is not a criticism of you because I think you have to follow the story. But he you know, we are 30 minutes in or something and we haven't yet gotten to the coronavirus and that's the story he doesn't want to talk about. So he is revving up his base. He is diverting the story and I think he is getting what he wants out of it whether it leads him to where he wants to go, which is reelection is a different question. But this is a deliberate strategy, and it is very much in keeping with what we've seen from him for the last five years.
[Berman:] I'll take that criticism. It's a fair criticism. It's something I was on TV on morning long and we consistently pointed it out that coronavirus cases are actually rising in the Midwest. The president was in the Midwest today, but that wasn't what he was therefore. So there's clear juxtaposition there. He doesn't want to address that or even be seen addressing it in anyway. Bakari, we had Justin Blake, the uncle of Jacob Blake on, I think you had a chance to listen to that. You also saw what happened in Kenosha today. What is your big take away from today's vents?
[Bakari Sellers Cnn Political Commentator:] Well I know the president doesn't want to talk about coronavirus. He also doesn't want to talk about the problem we have with individuals like Jacob Blake, unarmed individual who come contact with law enforcement who do not deserve to be paralyzed or do not deserve to have lethal force used on them. You know, that's first and foremost. I think people often times forget why we are here. I talk to people often and I'm like, you know, if you don't want protests, stop shooting people in the back people in the back seven times. I mean that's pretty much the way we can nix all of this. If you don't want protests, don't put a knee in the back of George Floyd's neck for eight minutes and 46 seconds. We can nix all of this. But even more importantly, you know, if you want to come down on the side of law enforcement, which I do. I mean I'm speaking to the largest law enforcement agency in South Carolina tomorrow and happy to do it on how we heal our communities but I'm also going to point out which they agree with, that you have to condemn Kyle Rittenhouse. There is no way around that. And so you have a young man and while he's talking about an airplane that brought in people in all black that nobody can point to, I mean the United States senators that are going along with this, you know, fantasy that people are talking about, you can condemn this man, this 17-year-old man. I'm not calling to call him a boy but you can condemn this man and his mother who drove him. You can start there. And look, I want to be clear and I do know that my Twitter is going to blow up and everything else. I've never met anybody in Antifa, that's not something we have in South Carolina but hell, I condemn them, too. Like, it's not we violence does in an proportion does not do good for the movement, period. That's what Joe Biden said. That's what Democrats say. President can't say that.
[Berman:] So the Blake family just told us earlier in the show. Bakari Sellers, David Axelrod, Maggie Haberman, I do appreciate you being with us tonight. Thank you. A brief programming though, be sure to tune in for an exclusive interview with Attorney General Bill Barr with Wolf Blitzer tomorrow in the 5:00 p.m. hour of The Situation Room. So straight ahead, we are talking about coronavirus. There is breaking news on that and the use of convalescent plasma. The National Institute of Health has just released guidance on the treatment. The treatment promoted by both the president and the head of the FDA. We'll tell you what they had to say when "360" continues.