[Chuck Hagel, Defense Secretary:] It is a look into where parts of the world may be going unless the United States, along with our partners and our coalitions, stop it. This is the point the president was making. You got to destroy it. Because if we don't destroy it, it will get worse and it will get wider and deeper.
[Berman:] That was Chuck Hagel, secretary of defense, talking about the spread of the ISIS ideology and what ISIS militants are doing, in some cases, handing down that ideology as a legacy to a younger generation.
[Pereira:] We're seeing footage like this and word they are teaching children how to hate, how to handle guns, to behead people. Take a listen. Let us bring in Peter Brookes from the Heritage Foundation. My goodness out of the mouths of children, such a horrifying thing to hear and to you know, I don't even know where to begin. It's so horrifying. What do you think international leaders around the world are thinking? They look to stamp out a group, right? They want to come in and knock out ISIS forcefully. Not so easy to stamp out an ideology, though, peter.
[Peter Brookes, Heritage Foundation & Former Deputy Assistant Secretary Of Defense:] Right. Very important. Even getting one of their leaders. And it appears we may have gotten their number two in Iraq. You have to go after the ideology. You know, the things we're seeing here are, you know, brainwashing, depravity, horrifying, sickening. I mean, it's just absolutely terrible. We know how impressionable young children are. And instead of being told taught to love, they're being taught to hate. These people, this ISIS group, or ISIL or whatever you want to call them, the Islamic state, they plan on governing for some time. They're setting up camp. They're setting up a state, and they're not going to go away very easily, so we have to be very sober about the threat we're facing.
[Berman:] We throw around the term brainwashing, and I wonder if that oversimplifies it because look, I don't believe babies are born good or evil. They're born babies and they're taught good or evil over time. Or they're raised in an environment where such things are acceptable. So could it be that they are just raised in this environment that hates the West, that wants to kill people, that's what they learn and that's what they grow up believing? Is that qualitatively different than brainwashing?
[Brookes:] Well, John, I'm not a psychologist, unfortunately. I mean, I'm just John Q. Public when it comes to those sorts of subjects. But it seems to me if anybody who has a child, how impressionable they are, and if they're taught these things that they may actually embrace them. You know, the other things we have to look at is, from a practical standpoint, these children could be taught to be suicide bombers. You know, the fact is, and when we look at sometimes children, we don't see them as a major threat, but these kids could be trained to put on a suicide vest and go out and kill other people besides the idea of beheading, they're being exposed to stonings, to crucifixions. I mean, this is sheer evil. And the soul of this organization is very, very dark. And we need to do something about it.
[Pereira:] It's horrifying to think that children are being forced to bear witness to this. And we should also point out, Peter, and I think it's a really important point to make, that these aren't just children of is fighters. They're often Iraqi children whose parents don't align with is. And they're being forced to attend these camps under threat of death to their parents. In fact, some of these people have fled because they think that, you know, it's either be called an infidel and be killed, or they flee.
[Brookes:] Yeah. I mean, that shows the increased level of depravity that we're dealing with here. You know, and there's plenty of videos out there. I mean, we're getting a limited amount of reporting on this. But it's very troubling. We should look further into this. There are human rights groups that should be looking at this and trying to get more information about it. Like I said, there's been very limited reporting. But obviously very, very troubling for a whole host of reasons.
[Berman:] It shows the reach here because kids are being taught to hate there. But a kid in Minnesota can grow up and learn to hate as well and end up fighting for is, too. It just shows the scope of the threat. Peter Brookes, thanks so much for being with us.
[Pereira:] And people can also be taught, because if you're raised in a bad environment, you can overcome that. You also though that. And that's an important thing for us to remember, too.
[Berman:] Yeah.
[Pereira:] Short break here. Home Depot trying to make good with its customers. The investigation in a possible credit and debit card hack continues. What the retailers is promising and what all that data might show.