[Lemon:] We have some breaking news to tell you about tonight. Former Oklahoma City police officer, Daniel Holtzclaw has been found guilty of rape and forcible sodomy. He was charged with 36 counts of sexual crimes against 13 African-American women while he was on the job. Holtzclaw will be sentenced next month and faces more than 200 years in prison. We'll follow-up on CNN. Following the deadly attacks in Paris and San Bernardino, Americans are more afraid now than at any other time since September 11th of another terrorist attack on U.S. soil. That is according to a New York Times CBS poll which shows one in five believe it's most important the most important issue facing the country. And among the republican voters 40 percent say that they are very confident in Donald Trump's ability to handle terror threats. So, joining me now is Bob Baer, intelligence and security analyst, and Ahmed Shihab-Eldin, a correspondent for Vice on HBO. Gentlemen, good to have you here. Mr. Baer, starting with you. The San Bernardino attack has sparked real fear in people and each new development in the investigation seem to point to a wider, deeper plot. Where do you think this is all going?
[Bob Baer, Cnn Intelligence And Security Analyst:] Not a good place. I think Americans this came as a surprise to them. You know, they thought we went into Afghanistan and Iraq to stop this. Fourteen years later we've got the same problem, a big attack. And it's worse in a way because it's Americans involved and there are so many converts to this, to this cult, and it is a death cult and the police are worried. I talked to law enforcement a lot and they said, well, what does a single officer do, who arrives with an active with an active shooter with automatic weapons? What's a training? Do they use flash bang grenades, do they use concussion grenades? I mean, they are they are the police who are ready to go to war and the FBI right now is all over San Bernardino and Riverside afraid that it's a bigger network out there and they don't know for sure and that's they are they are on this, they are very, very anxious.
[Lemon:] I want to bring in Ahmed now. Despite being afraid, and here is the new poll, OK, so afraid. A new poll by NBC to Wall Street Journal, shows a big majority of Americans, 57 percent oppose Trump's plan to ban Muslims. But when you break it down by party, Ahmed, 42 percent of republicans, 30 percent of independent support it. Are you worried about how Muslims in this country will be affected by this?
[Ahmed Shihab-eldin, Vice Correspondent On Hbo:] Of course, I'm worried. Trump's comments are divisive, they're disgusting and they're very dangerous. And, you know, sadly, this shouldn't come as a surprise. I mean, he is simply channeling a pervasive perception that's existed since 911 and continues to get worse that Muslims are something to be feared, that they are incompatible with the West. Then we've seen hate crimes rise against Muslims. We've seen hate speech drive against Muslims.
[Lemon:] The CAIR was evacuated today, there have been attacks against mosques around the country. You're expecting a backlash.
[Shihab-eldin:] Yes, of course. There was a pig's head put there. And you know what's really troubling about this...
[Lemon:] Can you blame Trump for that do you think?
[Shihab-eldin:] I don't know I don't know whether that's really important. I think what we can blame Trump for is to continue to create this illusion and perpetuate this notion that ISIS is actually perpetuating which is that we are at a clash of civilizations, that the West is at war with Islam. And what's really, really frightening about this is that a majority of republicans, as you just mentioned agree with him, one in five democrats apparently are behind this new proposal. And this is nothing new. You know, for 15 years, we've been waging war against Muslim majority countries and it's kind of troubling that this is...
[Lemon:] When you say one in five democrats, I mean, you know, because democrats are the liberal party, right?
[Shihab-eldin:] Right.
[Lemon:] That he has to...
[Shihab-eldin:] Well, there is a lot of ignorance around what is Muslim what is, you know, Islam and what it actually means.
[Lemon:] And what it means to be a Muslim.
[Shihab-eldin:] And I think that, you know, the real issue here is that this is not just an embarrassment for us as Americans, but it's really troubling that he is gaining so much traction and that it seems as though, you know, he is exploiting and capitalizing just like ISIS is, this false notion that we are, you know, at war with Islam with 1.5 billion people.
[Lemon:] All right. I want you guys to listen. This is what Donald Trump said to me yesterday about San Bernardino, the terrorists. Listen.
[Trump:] The public agrees with what I said. They saw those two animals last week go out and shoot people and the husband and wife, the wife came here on a phony visa, on a visa that frankly it's disgraceful that she was able to come in and she radicalized, probably radicalized him.
[Lemon:] Fiancee visa.
[Trump:] She had a fiancee visa.
[Lemon:] Yes, fiancee via.
[Trump:] And a disgusting, disgraceful thing. So, the people that are with me a 100 percent are the people and that's frankly all that matters. The politicians look, the politicians are very upset. They haven't caught on. I don't think they will catch on.
[Lemon:] So, Bob, he says the people are with them. Let me but he calls terrorists animals. And frankly, a lot of people agree with him. Do you think this kind of language will help the cause, his cause, maybe?
[Baer:] Well, I mean, clearly, those people were savages in anybody's definition. But there are couple of things we can't forget is that more Muslims are dying in this war than anybody else. You look at Syria and Iraq. You know, and the second thing is, you know, having spent my entire life in the Middle East is we need these people, we need the Muslim that countries to turn on this cult, these radicals that which are not really accepted in Islam and I say that in all belief. And we need Saudi Arabia, we need Pakistan, we need them to close down these madrasas. We need to close down Wahhabi Islam and that's strain, which gears people up for these attacks. And this is all through history, this has happened where Islam has turned against the militants and destroyed them. And they've never been destroyed from the outside. It's always been...
[Lemon:] OK. Go ahead.
[Shihab-eldin:] And Bob, I mean, Bob, to your point, I mean, I don't mean to interrupt. But you bring up Saudi Arabia and it's just, you know, it's really heartening that we keep having the same conversations about, you know, whether or not Islam is inherently evil, whether or not, you know, Muslims should be condemning this rather than talking about the hundred billion dollars and arms that we have sold to Saudi Arabia in the past five years. The fact that Saudi Arabia has been exporting Wahhabism which is, you know, the premise that, you know, all these groups, these extremist groups based a lot of their ideology on. And this really points to the power...
[Baer:] Exactly.
[Shihab-eldin:] I think, to your point, I mean, it points to the power, Don, you know, of terrorism. It points to the main weapon of fear that we've seen time and time again be used to first paralyze the public herein America and across the world. And then provoke...
[Lemon:] OK.
[Shihab-eldin:] ... propitious reactions that really only lead us to the cycle of violence, the cycle of politics and frankly, the media and their...
[Lemon:] But before you get involve point taken. But when you're talking about the United States and someone who is running for president here in the United States who says and you are talking about, you know, what the United States has done...
[Shihab-eldin:] Right.
[Lemon:] ... to perpetuate terrorism worldwide.
[Shihab-eldin:] Right.
[Lemon:] But when you're talking about here in the United States he is running here. People aren't going to vote for him overseas. The American people are voting for him. And he is finding...
[Shihab-eldin:] But, Don, but, Don, what about our moral standing? What about our reputation?
[Lemon:] Listen, I don't disagree with you. But what I'm saying is, there is an issue here in the United States that we're discussing on this program that we're talking about a presidential election in the United States.
[Shihab-eldin:] Right.
[Lemon:] Those issues should be dealt with and can be dealt with. But here, listen, let me do this let me do this and then you guys can respond because I want to get to this before we ran out of time. I just want to put this up of Muhammed Ali.
[Shihab-eldin:] Sure.
[Lemon:] He's a remarkable man. He put the statement out, I think it was yesterday he said. He says "We, as Muslims have to stand up to those who use Islam to advance their own personal agenda. Speaking as someone at someone who has never been accused of political correctness. I believe that our political leaders should use their position to bring understanding about the religion of Islam and clarify that these misguided murderers have perverted people's views on what Islam really is." Go ahead, Ahmed.
[Shihab-eldin:] Right. But shouldn't we also as Americans stand up to people like Donald who are aiding and abating terrorism and terrorist.
[Lemon:] I thought that's what I said to you.
[Shihab-eldin:] Right. But this is what I'm saying, it's not just that we should stand up against, you know, the extremists. There are extremists on all sides.
[Lemon:] Yes.
[Shihab-eldin:] Here in America and France, Marine Le Pen, I mean, people are exploiting and capitalizing this situation and this dichotomy by actually adapting ISIS'script and trying to drive a wedge...
[Baer:] Exactly.
[Shihab-eldin:] ... alienate Muslims in order to, you know, create a rift in the American society.
[Lemon:] Bob, I'll give you I'll give you the last word. I'm out of time.
[Baer:] Ahmed is exactly right.
[Lemon:] And that's the last word.
[Baer:] Look, the problem is going back to 2003, the government has been wrong about the conflict in the Middle East and the Americans don't trust the government, whether it's republican or democrat and that's why they're looking to Trump as somebody who appears to speak truthfully. You know, I don't think he does. But Americans are frustrated with this war. It's gone on forever...
[Lemon:] That's got to be the last word. I'm sorry, Ahmed. We're out of time. Thank you, gentlemen. I really appreciate it. Great conversation. Up next, the man who is called the Jon Stewart of the Middle East. What he thinks about Trump's call to block Muslims from entering the U.S. There he is, right there.