[Vause:] Welcome back. Robert Mueller's Russia investigation is moving beyond the 2016 presidential campaign to Donald Trump's business dealings in Russia before he ran for the White House.
[Sesay:] Sources tell CNN some witnesses are being questioned about the timing of Donald Trump's decision to run, why his plans for Trump Tower in Moscow fell through, and whether the Russians had compromising information about Mr. Trump. Investigators are also following the money trail for the 2013 Miss Universe pageant which was held in Moscow and ran by the Trump Organization.
[Vause:] We are joined now by CNN political commentator and Democratic strategist Dave Jacobson and Republican consultant John Thomas. OK, let's start with line of questioning here which is centering about 2013 Miss Universe pageant in Moscow. This is from our reporting. In particular, Mueller is looking at meetings Trump had with Russian business people or government officials leading the source to believe the investigators were probing the possibility of compromising material on Trump. Investigators were interested with logistics surrounding Trump's hotel room in Moscow. Who was there? Who would have access to it? Who is in charge of security? Who was moving around with him during the trip? So, John, Donald Trump and his lawyer made it very clear, anything beyond anything before he was a presidential candidate, before 2015, 2016, is beyond the scope of Mueller's investigation. But when you listen to these questions and how that might relate to what happened later on in the campaign, why are those questions
[John Thomas, Republican Consultant, Cnn Political Commentator:] This sounds very much like the DNC in Clinton's Russian dossier, right? Whether he was what he was he doing in his hotel room, were there prostitutes there, was it compromised, right? That is essentially what an element of dossier was getting into. It is not surprising that the special investigations have mission creep. I think that's exactly what Trump was afraid of. I don't think there is anything to do to stop Mueller sort of firing him but I am concerned that this creep into Trump's business dealings before the election are going to push his button to such an extent that he will want to fire Mueller.
[Vause:] Dave?
[Dave Jacobson, Democratic Strategist, Cnn Political Commentator:] I mean let's not forget it's Rod Rosenstein that is overseeing this investigation. He is a Republican appointed by Republican Donald Trump. And so he is overseeing every element of this investigation. And so clearly there is got to be some tie to the 2016 election. Otherwise, he will shut this thing down, right? And so
[Thomas:] Well, not necessarily. He has gone after Paul Manafort for things he did, you know, years and years and years ago. So it is not necessarily. He is just going down that route to see if there is a there there.
[Vause:] But John, let's just remind you that Mueller was appointed by Rod Rosenstein, the deputy attorney general, a Republican, and
[Jacobson:] Mueller is a Republican.
[Vause:] Exactly. But this you know, Mueller was given this to investigate any methods that arose or may arise directly from the investigation. It is very broad but that is what Rosenstein told Mueller to do. And that what appears that he is doing right now.
[Thomas:] You think it is challenging because Trump wants to say look, they are looking for Russian collusion. They found nothing at least that we know of to date. The investigation has been going on and on and on and there has been nothing. At some point, you have to draw a line. I think Trump's worry, if you back to 2013, are they going to go back to 2000? Are they going back to
[Vause:] Nothing wrong.
[Thomas:] Well, because you might get nailed for process crime. That has nothing to do with Russia collusion. Ask Rick Gates. Ask Paul Manafort.
[Vause:] But still crimes.
[Thomas:] Right, but it has nothing to do with Russia collusion. I think that is Trump's point, if you are trying to get to the bottom of Russia collusion, this is not the way to do it.
[Jacobson:] We don't know that necessarily. But if you look at the big picture here, we have seen a tremendous swing in public opinion. USA Today and Suffolk University had a brand-new poll that shows that 58 percent of the American people trust Bob Muller, 57 percent don't trust Donald Trump on this issue. And I think that is really, really stunning because it is a dramatic shift from what we have seen recently. And I think most of that is emblematic of the fact that independent voters are now seem to trust Bob Mueller perhaps more than they were previously.
[Vause:] OK, The Washington Post is reporting that officials from at least four countries, China, Israel, Mexico, and the UAE privately discussed ways to manipulate White House adviser and presidential son- in-law Jared Kushner, taking advantage not just his lack of experience when it comes to foreign policy, but also his own personal financial problems, in particular
[Jacobson:] Precisely. And that's probably why or at least could potentially be one element of why Jared Kushner hasn't been able to pass throughout the entire course of his time in the White House a standard FBI background check, right? That at the end of the day is a massive clearing issue. And that is why he was recently demoted. That's why he got that security clearance take down. And I think it is going to have a massive impact in terms of his ability to do the scope of work that he he has been working on whether it is the Israeli-Palestinian peace talks or dealing with and being a liaison to Mexico. I mean, this is going to have a massive body blow in the terms of the portfolio and the data they work that he does in the west wing.
[Vause:] Kushner was also described as the secretary for everything, broker for the Middle East peace, adviser on relationships with Mexico, Canada and China, overseeing the Office of American Innovation,
[Thomas:] I don't think he can. It is a conflict of interest. They say that General Kelly made that call unilaterally, but I guarantee you, he would not have made that call even if he had authority to make that call without consulting the president.
[Vause:] Yes.
[Thomas:] So this is something that the president who sticks very closely by family was willing to go along with because the conflict of interest was so glaring. I have never been a fan of having nepotism in the White House. It just didn't seem to make a lot of sense to me.
[Vause:] Yes.
[Thomas:] But the fact that there has been focus on this, I think it is a healthy thing. I think Kelly has made the right call. And now that he has been demoted, he can't do his job.
[Vause:] Right. Well, as far as his future is concerned, here is White House Press Secretary Sarah Sanders.
[Sarah Huckabee Sanders, White House Press Secretary:] He is a valued member of the team and he will continue to do the important work that he has been doing since he started in the administration.
[Thomas:] The interns are important.
[Vause:] Dave, is that one week or two weeks before Jared and Ivanka
[Jacobson:] Well,
[Vause:] OK, let us finish up with secretary of Housing and Urban Development, Ben Carson. First, there was the whistle blower who told CNN that she was pressured to exceed the legal $5,000 limit to redecorate Carson's office.
[Helen Foster, Former Hud Official:] One-on-one meeting with my boss who was the acting secretary at the time. And he told me again that $5,000 wasn't enough and specifically $5,000 is not enough to buy a decent chair.
[Vause:] She said it wouldn't buy chair but $31,000 apparently buys a very nice dining table and it comes under the heading of office supplies, so it doesn't go into the redecoration. According to The New York Times, Carson didn't know the table had been purchased but does not believe the cost was too steep and does not intend to return it, said Raffi Williams, a HUD spokesman. In general, the secretary does want to be fiscally prudent as possible with the taxpayers's money, he added. John, this comes as programs at public housing to help the poor, the homeless, are said to be cut by the White House budget. So, for Ben Carson, a man who wants pose in a painting with the son of God, what would Jesus do
[Thomas:] You know, lawmakers get nailed for this kind of stuff all the time, lavish expenditures on their office. I think it is a bipartisan problem. I am glad he was exposed. And I think it is pretty simple. He either cuts a check himself or he steps down. I really think it is that simple. Elected officials or appointed officials should not be living lavishly on the taxpayers' dimes. It is just that simple.
[Vause:] Good point to end it. John and Dave, thanks so much.
[Jacobson:] Thank you.
[Sesay:] Quick break here. After week of confusion, the Nigerian government is sharing new information on more than 100 missing girls. What to do to find them and bring them home, just ahead.