[Zahn:] As you all know, illegal immigration is a big challenge for this country. A new report out says there are nine to 13 million illegal immigrants in the U.S. right now. Congress is struggling with what to do about that. And what some lawmakers want to do is actually get rid of the automatic citizenship for babies born here in the U.S. to illegal immigrant parents. Critics of birthright citizenship say it just encourages illegal immigrants to have children here. But, if you ask many illegal immigrants, they say that's ridiculous. Here's Thelma Gutierrez.
[Thelma Gutierrez, Cnn Correspondent:] It is the end of a long day at the Flores home. Joshua, Joseph and Eric finish their homework under the watchful eyes of their parents, Manuel Flores and Maria Hernandez.
[Maria Hernandez, Immigrant:] Put them on the table.
[Gutierrez:] Both work full-time. They own their own home and say they're living the American dream. [on camera]: Do you have feelings for this country?
[Hernandez:] Absolutely.
[Manuel Flores, Immigrant:] Yes.
[Hernandez:] I love this country.
[Gutierrez:] When they were teenagers, Maria and Manuel came to California from Mexico with their families. Their kids, Joshua, Eric and Joseph, were born here in the United States. And because of that, they are American citizens, but their parents are not. In fact, when the boys were born, Maria and Manuel were here illegally. Manuel and Maria are trying to become citizens. She's close, but Manuel says, because he went to Mexico without permission, he could be deported. And the Flores kids, like millions of other children of illegal immigrants, are now in the middle of a heated national political debate about whether birthright citizenship should be abolished.
[Hernandez:] I don't want to think it's just me, but I feel it's so personal that it hurts. It really hurts my my feelings that I have for this country, and as well as my pride.
[Professor John Eastman, Chapman University Law School:] To claim something by virtue of an illegal act as the very first step you take is not only un-American, but it's actually fairly dangerous, because it means our immigration policy means nothing.
[Gutierrez:] Constitutional law professor John Eastman says birthright citizenship, under the 14th Amendment, is unconstitutional. And he and a group of conservative lawmakers want it revoked.
[Carl Shusterman, Immigration Attorney:] I think it's really a shame that the level of intolerance has grown so much that people are actually taking this kind of stuff seriously.
[Gutierrez:] Carl Shusterman is a former agent with the Immigration Service, now an immigration attorney. He says the 14th Amendment is the cornerstone of the Constitution.
[Shusterman:] The 14th Amendment gives freedom of speech, freedom of religion. It's one of those things you don't want to mess with, unless there is a huge emergency.
[Eastman:] They're still making a claim to get their children be deemed citizens and all the benefits of U.S. citizenship.
[Flores:] I'm not taking any advantage of this country, such as getting supported by by, like, welfare, Medi-Cal, or any any any of those programs.
[Gutierrez:] Manuel Flores, who works as a special education teacher's assistant, says his employee health insurance paid for the births of his funds, that he has never used public assistance. [on camera]: Taxpayers are paying for your kids to be in public schools.
[Flores:] I'm also paying my taxes. I know I am illegal, but I am contributing to this country, working really hard, and, like I said, paying my taxes. I donate a lot of my time helping the community.
[Gutierrez:] Eastman says, people like Flores, who come here illegally and have babies, American babies, do so to legalize their status. They call children like Josh, Joseph and Eric quote "anchor babies."
[Eastman:] This is providing a massive incentive for illegal immigration, because it is a draw. That U.S. citizenship is the you know, the most the the most touted citizenship in the world.
[Shusterman:] I have never had a case where somebody had one of these anchor babies that it resulted in them becoming permanent residents of the United States.
[Gutierrez:] Never?
[Shusterman:] Never, not a single case. And, I mean, I have had thousands, thousands of clients.
[Gutierrez:] Shusterman says that's because Flores' kids would have to turn 21 before petitioning for their parents. Because Flores is illegal, he would be penalized an additional 10 years before he could become a legal resident.
[Shusterman:] A 31-year wait? I don't I don't think anybody would do that.
[Gutierrez:] As part of the bigger debate on reforming immigration, these children are now an issue in Washington.
[Flores:] This is a a country of freedom. This is a country of opportunities. And I'm just seeking those rights. I just want to be with my family here.
[Gutierrez:] Thelma Gutierrez, CNN, Los Angeles.
[Zahn:] And we go straight to the heart of the battleground. Right now, in Washington, Republican Congressman Tom Tancredo of Colorado, who supports stronger immigration controls and wants to end birthright citizenship, and Democratic Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee of Texas, who is the ranking Democrat on the House Subcommittee on Immigration. She is against changing that same birthright measure. Good to have both of you with us.
[Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee , Texas:] Thank you.
[Zahn:] Congressman Tancredo, I am are going to start with you tonight.
[Rep. Tom Tancredo , Colorado:] OK.
[Zahn:] We have made it very clear you don't think it's a good idea to allow children born of illegal immigrants to automatically get U.S. citizenship. But doesn't the the Constitution guarantee that?
[Tancredo:] Well, I I don't think it does. And I think there are a lot of scholars who would agree with me, that the 14th Amendment was was put there we we adopted the 14th Amendment to overturn the Dred Scott decision. It is an amendment dealing with the children of slaves and ex-slaves. That's why it was put into the Constitution, had nothing to do, absolutely nothing to do with providing providing citizenship to people who were in the country illegally. It has been it's sort of been the habit and custom that we have developed. But what I certainly think we can do is to legislatively change that. Now, I admit, certainly, that if we pass any measure that does that, it will immediately be challenged, of course. I know that. It will go to court. And there will be a determination as to whether or not it is a constitutional change, and it was...
[Zahn:] All right.
[Tancredo:] ... it will be allowed constitutionally.
[Zahn:] So, Representative Lee Jackson and let me just ask you this. Do you agree with the idea that birthright citizenship provides a massive incentive for illegal immigration?
[Jackson Lee:] Oh, I absolutely do not. And I think, if you ask most Americans, they want lawmakers to be responsible in their response to the crisis of immigration and illegal immigration. They want, first of all, strong border security, which my rapid response border protection bill does. And they want to respect the Constitution. My good friend is absolutely wrong. And whatever scholars would interpret the 14th Amendment in the way that he has interpreted it is wrong as well. I would argue that slavery was illegal. And, therefore, even the 14th Amendment, under his interpretation, would make me an illegal immigrant, an illegal citizen, at least as one who had ancestors that were slaves. Frankly, the 14th Amendment says that, if you are born or naturalized under the in the United States and you're under its jurisdiction, you are a United States citizen.
[Zahn:] All right.
[Jackson Lee:] And, just as your report indicated, who would wait 31 years?
[Zahn:] So, Representative Lee, how...
[Jackson Lee:] We are known...
[Zahn:] How would you change this picture? Or or or do you think it's a positive thing, that at least 100,000 babies are born to illegals every year in the United States and they're automatically given citizenship? Do you think that's a good thing?
[Jackson Lee:] Absolutely absolutely not, in terms of the impact, that people would perceive it to be negative, that we are affirming illegal immigration. What I would argue for is a comprehensive answer of comprehensive reform. That is additional Border patrol agents and detention beds and recognize and explain to Americans that we're not suggesting that undocumented individuals get in line of those who are standing in line for a legal process. We are not suggesting that we are affirming illegal immigration. But we are saying that, under the Constitution, if you're born in the United States, you do have a birthright.
[Zahn:] OK. Representative Tancredo...
[Jackson Lee:] What we should do is be securing the borders.
[Zahn:] Let me let him jump in here. There are some Republicans who agree with what the congresswoman just had to say. Why don't you think guest worker programs, why don't you think better enforcement of laws at the borders would would help correct this problem?
[Tancredo:] Well, of course, better enforcement of laws at the border would. Who is arguing that? I mean, the one nice thing that has happened in the last several months is that we have gotten a shift, a dramatic shift, in the debate. It is moving in our direction, in the direction of real immigration reform. We are going to be looking at true comprehensive legislation. I'm all for it. And I all I'm saying to you is that part of that comprehensive legislation seems to me to be dealing with the issue of birthright citizenship, because I believe it is absolutely a a you know, a definable problem in this country, when you have it's closer to 300,000 people coming here every year to have their children, and coming here illegally...
[Jackson Lee:] Paula...
[Tancredo:] ... illegally, I might mention. And that's the part nobody keeps I don't know why we don't really focus on that. The people who have come into this country, even those nice folks that you showed in your in the in the lead-up to this particular discussion, I mean, they're wonderful people. Nobody's arguing that. But the problem is, Paula, they broke the law. They are here illegally. And for and because of that...
[Jackson Lee:] They met each other here in the United States. And I think Congressman Tancredo wants to be provocative. ... scapegoat some of these issues of immigration.
[Zahn:] You have given us all an awful lot to digest tonight.
[Jackson Lee:] We need comprehensive reform.
[Zahn:] We have got to move on here. Representative Sheila Jackson Lee, Representative Tom Tancredo...
[Tancredo:] All right.
[Zahn:] ... thank you for bringing us up to date on where the debate lies. Appreciate it. We are going to take a short break here. Still ahead tonight, we are going to take you inside a dramatic manhunt on the dangerous streets of one American city where police are trying to rid the town of hundreds of fugitives. And a little bit later on, the controversial movie coming to a theater near you, a Western love story about gay cowboys.