[Keilar:] The fate of Michael Flynn still to be determined. A district court judge delaying his sentencing until next year and warning he has not ruled out jail time. One thing that is clear, however, is the White House narrative that Flynn was ambushed by the FBI and tricked into lying has completely been destroyed. Here's what Sarah Sanders is claiming.
[Sarah Sanders, White House Press Secretary:] We're arguing that he was certainly ambushed and that the FBI that we know had clear political bias.
[Unidentified Male:] Flynn said that he knew that it was illegal to lie to the FBI and he was ready to accept responsibility. This was all before agreeing to a delay in the sentencing. Given that, are you in a position now or would like to revisit your comments earlier today that the FBI ambushed Flynn?
[Sanders:] No. I we still firmly believe we don't have any reason to want to walk that.
[Keilar:] Well, in open court, Flynn took full responsibility for his lies. He admitted that he knew lying to the FBI was illegal, as you heard there. Earlier today, Republican Senator Joe Kenny Kennedy, pardon me, citing with the facts over the White House.
[Kennedy , Louisiana:] I see no indication that Mr. Flynn was tricked. There weren't any strict questions. I don't think he was coerced. He was given several opportunities to tell truth and he told a boldfaced lie. And that's just a fact.
[Keilar:] Crime and justice reporter Shimon Prokupecz joining us now. And, Shimon, just tell us, where do things stand at this moment for Flynn?
[Shimon Prokupecz, Cnn Crime And Justice Reporter:] Yes, well, quite simply, Brianna, things are not good for Michael Flynn. The prospect of prison is very, very real for him now. He's in a much different place today certainly than he was going into that sentencing hearing yesterday. And then late yesterday, just in the evening, early evening, the judge then took a drastic measure of trying to limit, trying to keep an eye, even more on Michael Flynn, limiting his travel, saying that he could only travel within 50 miles of Washington, D.C. Told Michael Flynn, you need to surrender your passport. And, keep in mind, all of this is sudden. Michael Flynn has been pretty much a free man, was able to roam around, go wherever he wanted to, travel wherever he wanted to. And for whatever reason, and it is likely because he's now facing prison time, that the judge has decided to yank his passport and limit his travel. This can go on for over a year. Because of his cooperation in another case out of the Eastern District of Virginia, that cooperation can go on for a year to a year and a half. So it won't be until then, until that is over, that we will know what his sentence will be.
[Keilar:] All right, Shimon, thank you so much. Shimon Prokupecz. And joining me now is Ken Starr, former independent counsel who investigated President Bill Clinton. His latest book, "Contempt: A Memoir of the Clinton Investigation," is out now. And, sir, I'm so curious about this book, but I first want to get your perspective on the Russia investigation since you're one of the few people who knows what it's like to serve as special counsel.
[Ken Starr, Former Independent Counsel In Clinton Investigation:] Sure.
[Keilar:] You've we've been covering this, the federal judge delaying Michael Flynn's sentencing at Michael Flynn's request. The judge was clearly peeved by Flynn's filing that indicated he was caught off guard by the FBI, even as he pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI and he said in court that he knew that was wrong. Did you see any problem with the way that Flynn would interviewed by the FBI, the way that was conducted?
[Starr:] Yes. I do, and I think Judge Sullivan did as well. So the other side of the story is, it wasn't ambush, but it was irregular. It was a failure by the FBI, which has basically said that we did not follow customary procedures. But I completely agree, there's no excuse for lying to the FBI. And so the Mueller team has not somehow hatched up an ambush. I think it was extremely poor form by James Comey and to Andy McCabe to do what they did. But General Flynn, very experienced, he's responsible for his actions and he's taken responsibility for his actions that he should do. Now, the judge, I think, was peeved at everyone in the
[Keilar:] What were the specifics what were the specifics of the way it was conducted that you take issue with?
[Starr:] Failure to follow protocol, which is to deal with the White House Counsel's Office, to explain what you're doing and to be forthright about what you're doing with the White House Counsel's Office. That way the White House Counsel's Office could have made its own assessment, should we postpone this, have we interviewed General Flynn and so forth. Quite apart from the focus on, should General Flynn have had his lawyer present and so forth. I'm viewing it from a governmental perspective of the relationship with the Justice Department and the FBI to the White House. That protocol was violated. And I think Mr. Comey has specifically said, we took advantage of the fact that it was early on and there was not a great deal of organization. No excuses. But there's also no excuse for lying. And he did. And he's admitted that. General Flynn has. And rightly so, because he lied on multiple occasions. So it's
[Keilar:] But do you see that I'm just curious
[Starr:] Yes.
[Keilar:] Do you see that differently of not looping in White House Counsel different than say like Monica Lewinsky being questioned initially without an attorney present? So you make a distinction because it's a governmental issue?
[Starr:] No. Oh, yes, of course. I mean what we were following, we were vindicated, Brianna, and I describe this in my book, just we were completely vindicated by Chief Judge Norma Holloway Johnson. Lots of media speculation about how did you treat her and so forth? But we were vindicated. We were doing exactly by the book what we were supposed to do in exactly the right way using experience, personnel and so forth. What we know now is that, yes, this is different. This is government to government. And especially when you're going to be interviewing the brand-new national security adviser, you do check in with the White House Counsel's Office. It was very bad form. Not illegal. They could do it. But it was I would call it an abuse of power.
[Keilar:] In your book, and it's important to mention that today marks the 20 years since the Bill Clinton impeachment, and in your book, "Contempt," you talk about the impeachment. You also address how this may not impeachment may not have the end result of the impeachers.
[Starr:] Right.
[Keilar:] So with that in mind, what do you think about what's going on right now with Democrats, will at some point possibly have to weigh this decision about whether to proceed?
[Starr:] Yes. I think there's going to be sentiment. We're already seeing it during the we saw it during the campaign. But I think cooler heads will prevail. But we'll see. It depends on the evidence, of course. But I think part of the lesson that I tried to articulate in the book is impeachment is hell for the country. So hold the president accountable, hold oversight hearings and the like, but be extremely reluctant to go in favor of impeachment. It just puts the country through a terrible ordeal, extraordinarily disruptive and there are other ways to vindicate the truth and the public interest.
[Keilar:] There's there's, I think, at this point in time, there's a reevaluation of the Clinton impeachment and the role of different players. You talk about this in the book a little bit. You talk about Monica Lewinsky. I wonder, what do you think now with the benefit of hindsight about how Monica Lewinsky fared at the time of your investigation, especially as she has been sort of reevaluated in this Ne Too era?
[Starr:] Right. Yes, and I looked at this pretty carefully in the book itself. I saw her as misguidedly, but very shrewdly protecting the president at all costs, including at terrible peril to herself month after month. But happily she eventually decided to do what, which her mother had urged her to do on day one when in which a very competent criminal defense lawyer would likewise have said, tell the truth and work out a deal, just as we're seeing in the Mueller probe, there are deals that are worked out. And the transaction that we were seeking was, we want the truth, Monica. Just tell the truth. Whatever it is, whether it's exculpatory, we think you committed perjury, we think you're encouraging others to commit perjury, just tell the truth and we'll get it all over with.
[Keilar:] She clearly, sir, thought, looking bac, she's moved and is reevaluating whether she thought there was an abuse of power. And I hear what you're saying in your book, you talk about how she was responsible in making herself a tragic figure.
[Starr:] Right.
[Keilar:] Do you I wonder if you worry, when you're talking about that, that you're treading precariously into victim blaming territory?
[Starr:] No, I'm just trying to evaluate a very sad chapter for the entire country. That the entire matter could have been concluded in terms of law enforcement, authorized by Attorney General Janet Reno. And I think there's a real misunderstanding, Brianna, about that. How did this all of this come to be, the Lewinsky phase of the investigation? It was because the president was in the process of committing perjury and engaging in other crimes against the rule of law. We're rightly talking about rule of law in the Trump administration. What the book shows, that the president was embarked, month after month, on effort to obstruct justice and the like. And, in fact, he was found in contempt for his obstruction of justice. I think that is underappreciated. So I think part of the lessons and we're drawing those lessons now is tell the truth, don't obstruct justice because at the end of the road there's going to be accountability. The truth will come out.
[Keilar:] Because he was found in contempt, you make a point in your book, you say that neither Bill, and you say also Hillary Clinton, neither Bill or Hillary Clinton has the character to be the leader to be the leader of the free world. You called Hillary Clinton in your book smug, dismissive, brittle, a liar, vindictive. I wonder, because these are also the adjectives that critics of President Trump's, that they will use, do you think that he is equipped to be to have the character to be the leader of the free world?
[Starr:] He was not my candidate. I had I'm a very loyal member of the Bush team. So he was not my candidate, but he was then nominee and that he won. There are about 80 percent of his policies that I think are terrific. I frequently criticize the president for this. I think
[Keilar:] But on his character? Because you talked about character.
[Starr:] Oh, I think that oh, yes, no,
[I -- Keilar:] Does he have the character to be the leader of the free world?