[Baldwin:] Michael Bloomberg facing some blow back today after he apologized for supporting New York City's stop and frisk policy during his time as the city's Mayor. The controversial policing tactic had a disproportionate effect on black and Latino communities which were often times targeted by law enforcement. Bloomberg mea culpa coming before a largely African American church congregation as he flirts with a possible presidential run in the Democratic primary.
[Michael Bloomberg  Presidential Candidate:] I got something really important really wrong. I didn't understand that back then. The full impact that stops were having on the black and Latino communities. Now, hindsight is 2020. But as crime continued to come down as we reduced stops and as it continued to come down during the next administration to its credit, I now see that we could and should have acted sooner and acted faster to cut the stops. I wish we had and I'm sorry that we didn't.
[Baldwin:] A.R. Bernard is the founder and pastor of the Christian Cultural Center in Brooklyn where former New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg apologized for the stop and frisk policy on Sunday. Reverend Bernard, a pleasure. Thank you so much for coming in.
[Pastor A.r. Bernard, Founder, Christian Cultural Center, Brooklyn:] Thank you. Good to be with you, Brooke.
[Baldwin:] All right. So a couple questions for you. First, did the Mayor personally reach out to you about coming to your church and speaking to your congregation?
[Bernard:] We've had a personal relationship over the last 19 years. I served him of course when he was Mayor of New York City. So there have been ongoing conversations about this. And he reached out and said, what do you think? And we had a very good solid discussion.
[Baldwin:] So he said I want to come in for
[Bernard:] He wanted to come in.
[Baldwin:] And I want to apologize?
[Bernard:] Yes. You think about it. This is what I want to do. I said I think it's great that you want to get out in front of it, that you're willing to own it. And I was willing to open up our church and our service to make it happen.
[Baldwin:] Tell me why.
[Bernard:] I believed he was remorseful. You know when you leave office you have opportunity to reflect on what you did, how you did it, what you got wrong, what you got right. And I think he was doing that. So, of course timing is going to be suspect because he's talking about a potential presidential run. But he said, I'm sorry. He owned it. And people are going to interpret that however they choose. But we're going to now watch and see what he does beyond the apology.
[Baldwin:] We'll get to what he does in a second, but how did your congregates interpret it? Did you get a mixed reaction? What have folks said to you?
[Bernard:] My congregation is very respectful. They're very sophisticated, sharp, intelligent people. And they respected the fact that I would give him a platform to make his case. And they would judge him based on how he came across. And for the most part, they felt that he was sincere. You know, does that translate into the black vote? That's something that we have to see. I believe, personally, that he has a pathway to the White House, but how he plays it is important.
[Baldwin:] As recently as January, the mayor vociferously defended what he chose to do with stop and frisk, you know, a number of people have pointed out, critics have said, well this is mighty politically convenient for him. And Charles Blow who sat in that seat a week or two ago, you know, was talking about the mayor and feels strongly on the other side as you, and he's this "New York Times" opinion writer. And he actually wrote this column and I just want to quote Charles. I believe that Bloomberg knew very well and understood clearly the pain that he was causing. But he was making a collateral damage argument. Because there was a crime, and many of those committing those crimes were born with black or brown skin. All those with that skin should be presumed guilty until proven innocent. That feels like the very definition of racism.
[Bernard:] Those are strong words and I get it. He's an opinion columnist. He's pushing his opinion. And I think differing voices are important because it sharpens our judgment. But Eric Adams, who is an NYPD Captain, on the force for twenty years came out on Sunday and said that stop and frisk was a good policing tool. The problem is, how it was applied. So you could have good intentions which is what Mike Bloomberg said in his speech. But you have to look at the results. And the result was that it disproportionately targeted black and Latino young men.
[Baldwin:] If I may, I mean the statistics, I have them between the years 2004 to 2012, more than 4.4 million were stopped and frisked. Under this policy 83 percent of those targeted were black or Latino. And 12 percent were charged with crimes. And I'm just curious, you know, Reverend, when you have a mother at your church come up to you and say, you know what, during that time when my son was growing up in my own community and I feared that if he was stopped that he would be guilty until proven innocent. And I'm not so sure about this man today, what would you how would you counsel her?
[Bernard:] I would say that she's a reflection of the tension that those who live in communities that are high crime live in. The tension between wanting policing, wanting crime to go down, wanting to be protected, want to feel safe on the streets. And at the same time, knowing that if measures are taken, someone is going to suffer the consequences, and it could be their child. You know, I personally experienced being pulled over while I was on the Advisory Council for Commissioner Schaffer back in the '90s, you know, and I was profiled. And I get it, and we have to have these conversations. But that tension is very real. How we apply it? I think again is important. We have to take a look at the results of what we're doing, regardless of our intentions and make modifications. In 2011, Bloomberg's last term, he launched a $127 million initiative towards cutting down on the factors that result in higher rates of incarceration, poverty and unemployment for young black and Latinos. So he was trying to respond to those years that he supported that. And I think that, you know, that doesn't get told.
[Baldwin:] I appreciate you sharing that. And also just you mentioned off the top that you have been in conversations with him, I don't know how much you'll be willing to share as far as counsel, maybe you've offered. But you did say that you believe there is a path for him in terms of running for President. I'm just curious what does that path look like?
[Bernard:] I do believe that. He's got to gain the confidence of the American people. And look, people are the country is suffering from what I would call the deferral of hope and that is true amongst the marginalized and disenfranchised, white and black. Whether it's a hope of racial equity in America or whether it's hope for blue collar workers to have jobs and economic parity within the society. So if we have a leader who can come to the table. Strengthen the economy and keep it going. Secure American interests abroad and make Americans feel safe at home. And deal with the inequities in education, for me as a person of color, the racialized policing the system and criminal justice system, inequities in education, and economic opportunity. I think he has a shot. He has a pathway. Look, when we have extremes, and we have extremes in our society right now, it creates a very large middle that becomes quite eclectic. And that middle wants to hear someone who can unite, who can breach the tear, the gap, and make sense. And hopefully restore some civility to our presidency.
[Baldwin:] I know. I hear you, reverend. And you think Michael Bloomberg could be that person, it sounds like?
[Bernard:] It's possible.
[Baldwin:] Do you have any announcements coming that you know of that you want to share right now live on TV?
[Bernard:] You know. I wouldn't do that.
[Baldwin:] A girl's got to ask. Reverend Bernard, thank you so much.
[Bernard:] Thank you so much.
[Baldwin:] A Pleasure. A pleasure.
[Bernard:] Good to be with you.
[Baldwin:] A football watch party turns deadly in California, yet another mass shooting in this country. We've got to talk about that. And the U.S. Supreme Court temporarily blocking the House from getting the President's financial records, details ahead.