[Anderson Cooper, Cnn:] Good evening. Thanks very much for joining us. Tonight, jurors in the "American Sniper" trial tell us how they decided that a killer, whose victim Chris Kyle, called straight up nuts was nonetheless not criminally insane. We begin though with three suspects and three words. The suspects, three men all residents of Brooklyn New York accused to try to join ISIS, two of them stopped as they were about to leave the country. The word plain and simple from New York police commissioner Bill Bratton, this is real, he said.
[Bill Bratton, New York City Police Department Commissioner:] This is the concern about the lone Wolf inspired to act without going to the media or concern of once they get to the Middle East, acquire fighting skills, capabilities and then attempting to return to the country.
[Cooper:] Authorities nabbed one suspect this morning at New York's Hannity airport. He was trying to fly to Turkey. Another suspect booked on a later fight flight was arrested at home in Brooklyn. A third man arrested in Florida. Now, all three allegedly talked about carrying out a variety of attacks in this country, one allegedly talked about assassinating the president. The latest now from Deborah Feyerick who is outside of the federal courthouse in Brooklyn. Also joining us is justice correspondent Evan Perez who first broke the story of arrest. So Deb, what's the latest? What do we know about these suspects and exactly what they're accused of?
[Deborah Feyerick, Cnn Correspondent:] Well, we can tell you two of the three here were at federal court this afternoon. The hearing was delayed, Anderson, because one of the man had asked for an Uzbek translator and that took a couple of hours delaying this hearing. The 19-year-old, he was picked up on the Jet way. He was arrested as he tried to board the plane to Turkey in order to get to Syria. The third man, the money man, he was in Florida. He owns a series of kiosks in Savannah, Philadelphia, and Virginia Beach. That's how he makes money, selling kitchen ware and also fixing mobile phones. All three have been charged with conspiring to provide material support to terrorists. Now, specifically, the two wanted to jihadists planned to travel to Syria. But they did have back-up plans, Anderson. And one of the reasons they have the back-up plan is that the 19-year-old, his mom actually confiscated his passport fearing that's exactly what he wanted to do. So he came up with this plan b according to court documents. He allegedly was going to join the military and
[Cooper:] And the government sources that you're talked to, I understand, they are describing this as something that they have not seen before. How is it, the dual plans?
[Evan Perez, Cnn Justice Correspondent:] Well, you know, Anderson, I think what this represents for law enforcement is an elevation of what they already believe was, you know, real threat and what you hear from law enforcement that you know, from what we've heard in the past couple of years, especially with regard to ISIS, was this concern about Americans traveling over there, getting, you know, some kind of know-how about fighting and bringing it back here. In this case, what they're talking about is a real sell. If you read the court documents, a real act of sell, which had plans. Again, there were plan Bs, but there were plans to do something here and that was something they haven't seen before. There is also something different that's here, and that we've seen a lot of these cases come from around the country. And I talked to prosecutors recently about exactly why we hadn't seen anything out of New York City, the biggest city in the country and now we've seen that. And again, that's something that is really alarming to them because they know that, you know, once you see it in New York, you know, there could be other types of cells around the country.
[Cooper:] Deb, do we know much about how law enforcement actually got on to these three suspects and do they feel they got everybody involved in this?
[Feyerick:] Well, Anderson, they do feel that they got everybody involved in this. And one of the reasons is that the 24-year-old who actually worked at a gyro king actually was caught on a web site talking about some of the things that he wanted to do including joining ISIS. And so through him, the FBI was able to get to others, to this 19-year-old, also to the money man and then they sent in a confidential informant. That confidential informant was crucial in helping the FBI make this case against the three men. But also, it was the confidential informant who actually was able to help the 19-year-old get a new passport and he told him that he had to go down to the immigration office in Manhattan and get Photographed and fingerprinted and that's exactly what the 19-year-old did. And he said he felt joyful, his soul felt happy.
[Cooper:] Deb Feyerick, appreciate it. Evan Perez, very important, thanks very much.
[Fran Townsend, Cnn National Security Analyst:] Well, remember, in the case of the Ottawa bad guy, he couldn't leave the country. He couldn't leave Canada because the authorities stopped him. And so, you know, this is, we have to remember, this is a learning organization. These guys watch the news. They understand what the contingencies are. And so they're planning for it, very concerning. Look. The FBI, I don't know that it's fair to say they identified everybody in this ring. You know, Deb was saying that they had. They certainly identified the immediate ring through the informant. But the answer is they took this down not because they have identified the complete network. They took this down because the guy at the airport getting ready to get on the plane and if they didn't arrest him then, they wouldn't have had that option. And so they took it down because they had to. It's not clear to me that they actually had identified the entire network.
[Cooper:] So you think that a group like ISIS actually prefers that people like these guys would actually stay in the United States? They're actually more valuable to them here?
[Shawn Henry, President, Crowdstrike Services:] I think that's certainly something that we need to look at. That's one of the things that the FBI and DHS, the
[Cooper:] Shawn, from a law enforcement standpoint, you know, there are people who are very skeptical when they hear about a case like this and hear, wait, a confidential informant, he told this guy how to go down and get a passport. I mean, how smart can this guy have been if he didn't know how to go down and get himself a passport, is there an element of them being set up or kind of led down a path? From a law enforcement standpoint, how do you defend that?
[Henry:] When you've got people that are making these types of statements talking about the jihadi cause, talking about traveling over supporting ISIS, talking about hurting Americans, killing the president, you've got to follow all these leads to their logical conclusion. In a case like this, it's very often difficult to prosecute these cases where people are making statements. There's a balance between freedom of speech in what somebody says and is it aspirational or is this real. The FBI about introducing confidential informant is looking to get some overt acts to demonstrate that clearly he was intending to make this charge. He was intending to go over. He wanted to cause harm. So that's a balance part of the investigation. But you can't turn ahead, your head against these things. You've got to follow these to their logical conclusion to make sure you keep Americans safe.
[Cooper:] If you don't do that, if you don't go down the road with them, and do something, God forbid something happens, you get blamed for not having fully investigated.
[Henry:] I mean, the FBI is looking to collect evidence of their intentions. They were very clear on what their intentions were. They had to provide the capability to record that activity, so it was very clear. This was not aspirational. This was not just puffery. This was somebody who wanted to take acts to harm Americans.
[Townsend:] Anderson, I'll tell you. The track record of the FBI in this sort of an incident is very good. They understand very well, they are working with prosecutors. They understand where the line is. And so, their ability to defend these cases in these investigations is virtually unparalleled, right? They haven't gotten these things reversed because they understand very well not to over lead the individual.
[Cooper:] I want to play something the FBI director said today.
[James Comey, Fbi Director:] I have home grown violent extremism investigations in every single state. Until a few weeks ago, it was 49 states. Alaska had none. I couldn't quite figure out but Alaska has now joined the group. So we have investigations of people in various stages of radicalizing in all 50 states.
[Cooper:] It's really interesting I think a lot of people to hear that. Because you don't, as much as we know about, you know, and we've seen happen around the world and even here in the United States with the number of incidents, it's still kind of shocking to hear that every state of the union, there are investigations going on.
[Townsend:] What he didn't say is that in every state of the union there's one. In certain communities like New York, there's many more than one. The FBI's investigative resources are incredibly stretched. And so, it's important in places like New York. But they're working with the local police department to develop sources, to develop leads and to do surveillance and follow them. And so this is a real problem. Let's remember, ISIS had said they want to bring their brand of terrorism here to the United States. You've got to take it seriously when the FBI is.
[Cooper:] Fran Townsend, thank you. Shawn Henry, thank you so much Were you surprised how quick it was, ultimately, about three hours, I think.
[Unidentified Female:] I wasn't. Because, in my heart, no. I wasn't. I wasn't surprised. When I heard all the other jurors speak their piece, I was not surprised.
[Cooper:] Welcome back. In just a moment tonight, you are going to hear two jurors in the "American Sniper" talked about how they reached agreement. Late last night, they have Eddie Ray Routh was guilty of first degree murder in the killings of Chris Kyle and Chad Littlefield. They are speaking out tonight. And for the first time, we can now see and hear what transpired in the courtroom and the police interview where Mr. Routh was first interrogated. Ed Lavandera has all of that.
[Ed Lavandera, Cnn Correspondent:] This is Eddie Ray Routh confessing to the murders, wearing the clothes he wore to the country side country range that day. Chad Littlefield's blood still staining his boots.
[Unidentified Male:] What happened out there today other than shooting sports?
[Eddie Ray Routh, Suspect In The Killing Of Chris Kyle And Chad Littlefield:] I was reasonable and fair with them boys. I can't just keep eating my soul up about this. You know, you can't just keep letting people eat your soul up for free. You know. It's not what it's about. It's about having a soul that you have to you for yourself and there are.
[Unidentified Male:] You talk to your sister today. What did you tell her?
[Routh:] I told her I had to kill men today. It wasn't a want to. I had to, a need to.
[Lavandera:] And the jury heard from Chris Kyle's wife, Taya.
[Unidentified Female:] Who were you married to prior to February 2nd, 2013?
[Taya Kyle, Chris Kyle's Wife:] Chris Kyle. I'm sorry. I'm not nervous. I'm just emotional.
[Lavandera:] Emotional as she remembered the last time she saw her husband.
[Kyle:] Chad had an extra set of eyes and then I said, maybe, make sure that this guy knows that Chad can be trusted 100 percent so that he's comfortable saying whatever. He said, no, yes. I definitely will. And then that we loved each other, a kiss and hug like we always did.
[Lavandera:] Later, she called Kyle and sense something was wrong.
[Kyle:] Because normally, going out there, especially if they said left creek, it's beautiful. He feels very good about helping somebody, usually he is making their day and he knows it. Which is what, you know, happened earlier. He thought that the guy sounded really excited to go, and so he thought he was doing a good thing.
[Unidentified Female:] He sounded irritated when you talked to him that afternoon?
[Kyle:] Yes. It was very short and it wasn't like a short like interrupting a good time. It was short like, I wish I could say more but I'm not going to because there are people around.
[Lavandera:] And that was the last time they would ever speak. She texted him, are you OK? I'm getting worried. Chris Kyle never responded. A few hours later, Eddie Ray Routh sit in Chris Kyle's truck would be surrounded by police. And in the police interrogation tape, Routh is questioned by Texas Ranger, Danny Briley.
[Cooper:] Ed Lavandera joins us. We hear Taya Kyle on the stand there. Has she reacted publicly to the verdict?
[Lavandera:] We haven't heard any public reaction. In fact, she wasn't even in the courtroom when the verdict was read last night, Anderson. As defense attorneys were giving their closing arguments toward the end of that, Taya Kyle got up and left the courtroom after having sat through two weeks of testimony. Obviously, excruciating for her. Sounds like she couldn't be in that courtroom anymore. She got up and left and wasn't even around for the verdict, Anderson.
[Cooper:] Yes. She has been through incredible. Ed Lavandera, thanks very much. Now, two members of the jury, I spoke with jurors Stacie Matthews and Heidi Correa earlier tonight. So Heidi, I know I mean, this case hinged on whether or not the shooter knew what he was doing, knew right from wrong when he pulled that trigger. You as a jury decided he did know right from wrong. I'm wondering, what convinced you of that?
[Heidi Correa , Juror, American Sniper Trial:] It was just kind of an overall, it was you get so much information in the matter of, you know, the 10 or 11 days of the trial. And you hear one side and you hear the other. And it was the preponderance of the evidence that he admitted he knew it was wrong. And the one hinge thing for me, everybody has their own hinge thing that convinced them, but for me, it was when he admitted that when he was riding in the back of the truck on the way to the shooting range that he said he considered killing them then. But he knew if he did that, that the truck would wreck and he would get hurt. The other thing was the Chad and Kyle thing. He shot Chad, which was a murder. It wasn't the American sniper but it was a human life. And in that moment, he knew if he didn't shoot Chris, that Chris is going to kill him.
[Cooper:] Heidi, even though you decided he knew right from wrong, did any of you believe that he did in fact suffered from some kind of mental illness?
[Correa:] The thing that is hard about it is you might think in the back, maybe he was crazy. The dude was definitely not right. I mean, there was he definitely was an unhinged person. But at the same time, every time he got in trouble for something, which was violent behavior, and got the police were called, he was taken, he claimed PTSD and said, I'm a veteran and they took him to the V.A. instead of taking him to the police and arresting him. And every time he went to the V.A., he was tested positive for drugs and alcohol. And so they could not specify what was causing his psychosis. And they told him over and over again, until we can diagnose you. You have to get off the drugs and alcohol. When we get the charge as a jury, the defense had to prove beyond a preponderance of reason or preponderance of the evidence, 51-49 is all it had to be, the defense never proved that beyond, you know, the preponderance of the evidence that he was clinically insane.
[Cooper:] And I mean, the defense psychiatrist testified that he had paranoid schizophrenia. Did that did you believe that? Because then the prosecution also rebutted that with their own experts.
[Stacie Matthews, Juror, American Sniper Trial:] Yes, I did. And I'm not saying any of the psychiatrists were wrong in their diagnosis. They probably felt like they were as correct as they could be given what they saw of Mr. Routh when they interviewed him. But the bottom line is there are all levels of mental illness. His mental illness was not severe enough that he did not know what he was doing was wrong.
[Cooper:] He was released from a V.A. hospital just shortly before he ended up killing Chris Kyle, and his mom talked about that. I think it was just a week before the shootings, he was released. His mom talked about that, trying to keep him inside the hospital because she said he wasn't ready to be released. I want to play that for our viewers what she said on the stand.
[Unidentified Male:] Did you ever plead with the Dallas V.A. not to release him?
[Jodi Routh, Eddie Ray Routh's Mother:] Absolutely, I did. On Thursday, they called me at school and said we are realizing Eddie. You need to pick him up.
[Unidentified Male:] So what did the Dallas V.A. tell, you?
[Routh:] They said, OK, we will keep him. They kept him on Thursday. Because I objected and said he's not ready.
[Unidentified Male:] A long period of time, didn't you?
[Routh:] Yes, I did.
[Unidentified Male:] And in fact, the U.S. government not released your son and they still released him?
[Routh:] Yes, sir.
[Cooper:] Heidi, I'm wondering what impact the mom had in that statement on you? I mean, the idea that her son was hospitalized just a week before the shootings and that his mom pleaded with the V.A. not to release him. Did that weigh in your thinking at all or does it come back to the never really understanding or getting a sense of what his actual psychiatric diagnosis was?
[Correa:] Well, I think the mom was pleading because she knew every time he would stay for the V.A. for a certain amount of days, he was free of the drugs and alcohol and when he got out, he was normal for a couple of days. She just didn't want him released because she knew as soon as he was out, he was going to go back to his old behavior.
[Cooper:] Our conversation covered a lot of ground. And when we continue, we are going to have more of their impressions of the trial, the evidence that they heard and the testimony that moved them. What it was actually like in the juror room. We'll be right back.