[Cuomo:] All right. A situation that seemed to start as just one state making one decision now really is a flashpoint in terms of where our law and culture are going. North Carolina and the State Department really starting to get after it about this transgender bathroom law. So, let's figure out what the real issues are here and what could happen with CNN legal analyst, Mr. Paul Callan. Very good to have you with us, as always, Counsel. Tee it up for us. What is this really about in the eyes of the law?
[Paul Callan, Cnn Legal Analyst:] Well, it's a very interesting situation, and I think, you know, a certain momentum has been set off by the gay rights movement and legalization of gay marriage in the United States. And now, we've moved on to this group, transgendered people, who suffered terrible discrimination and now they're seeking a remedy under existing laws and it's all come to head in North Carolina.
[Cuomo:] Now, we had heard this would happen. When the gay marriage decision came out. People said, oh, it's over. Now LGBT is equal. Equal protection under the law. No, that was only with marriage. So, now, it was about how many different examples of this would come up and now, here where we are.
[Callan:] And I think also, it's kind of hard to get into detailed discussions about this, but a lot of people mixed up a concept of somebody being gay and being transgendered. They're actually very, very different things. Of course, a transgender person is someone who anatomically may be a male or a female but feels that they are, in fact, the opposite sex.
[Cuomo:] They identify with a different gender.
[Callan:] That's very different from someone who is gay, who may be attracted to the opposite sex but it quite happy with their own anatomical sex. Anyway, so this has now come to a head in North Carolina, where the federal government has said, if you don't allow transgendered people to have equal access to rest room facilities among other facilities, we're going to cut off federal funding.
[Cuomo:] And the state says they do have equal access. Go to a bathroom whenever they want. It's just for their designated gender?
[Callan:] Exactly. And a governor has gone into court, federal court, saying that he wants a federal judge to rule that the state has the right to follow what has been existing law up until now, which has said it's perfectly okay to have a rest room for women and a rest room for men, and to restrict who is a man and who is a woman on the basis of their anatomy. That's traditionally how we define male and female in the United States.
[Cuomo:] So, where does this head?
[Callan:] Well, my own view is that they're going to lose in North Carolina. That is the governor is going to lose and I think the federal Department of Justice is going to win, and I say that because there was a case in Virginia called the Grim Case, which was handed down by the 4th Circuit Federal Court. Now, that's a court just below the U.S. Supreme Court, and it covers North Carolina. It involved I think a 14-year-old student in a Virginia high school, and this was a girl who perceived herself to be a male and wanted to use the boys' room. And the federal court in that case indicated very, very strongly that gender identity was protected under Title 7 and Title 9, which are civil rights laws, and sent a very strong signal to North Carolina that transgendered rights will have to be honored. So I think that's the court, that's the big court in that area. They're sent to the lower courts and I think North Carolina's going to lose.
[Cuomo:] Do you need to have legislative change here to make it stick? The governor has said, well, what about Title 7 and Title 9, extension of the '64 Civil Rights Act and education amendment in 1972, do you have to amend those to include this definition under sex?
[Callan:] Well, that's an interesting question, because when those statutes were passed, they included a specific provision that said, it's OK to have a separate rest room for women and separate men, segregated on the basis of sex. But I don't think you have to amend that law, because we're not changing the definition of sex. What has happened is that society now views transgendered individuals as actually female, regardless of their anatomy. So, you don't have to put in the word "transgender." Your sex is female, if you are, in fact, a true transgendered person.
[Cuomo:] Is it fair to say a huge obstacle facing the state in this, what's the problem with doing it the way that the government, in this case, is asking you to do? The bathroom predator theory does not seem to have any merit to it? So, you think this is coming down to a judge's rendering.
[Callan:] Yes. I think, of course, the unspoken thing is female fear that a predator's getting into a rest room. There's no statistical support for that. I can't think of a single case in American history where a transgendered individual attacked somebody else in the rest room.
[Cuomo:] They're saying it will create a window of opportunity, but at this point, speculative. Paul Callan, thank you very much. Appreciate it, as always. This is a big issue in the news. We'll be telling you about it this morning. There are some big changes to the election as well. So, let's get right to it.