[Cabrera:] A federal judge is considering imposing a gag order in the case against longtime Trump ally and self-described dirty trickster, Roger Stone. Now, the judge declared this is a criminal proceeding and not a public relations campaign, and she's warning Stone to stop arguing his case on the, quote, "talk show circuit." Stone was definitely not camera shy since his arrest on the charges stemming from the Mueller investigation. Listen to this.
[Roger Stone, American Political Consultant:] This indictment is thin as piss on a rock. The president needs to wake up. This is a speeding bullet heading for his head. To storm my house with greater force than was used to take down Bin laden or El Chapo or Pablo Escobar, it's unconscionable.
[Cabrera:] April Ryan and Michael Shear back with us now. April, Stone loves to talk. What's the overunder that he complies with the judge's order?
[April Ryan, Cnn Political Analyst:] I don't think he's going to try to I don't think he's going to comply. But the bottom line is this Trump crew, this presidential crew, they always push the envelope and move the bar. He's going to try it. They don't stop talking. They want to play this out in the court of public opinion. Roger Stone is going to continue to talk, and I would not be surprised even if he gets a gag order, he may say a couple things. He might pull it down a little bit, but he may continue to talk. And he's going to he's going to push it until he looks like the victim. He wants to tell his story. He wants to tell his side.
[Cabrera:] Michael, Stone and Trump, we know, have known each other for decades. Both men have been open about that. Listen.
[Donald Trump, President Of The United States:] Roger's a friend of mine. He's a good guy.
[Stone:] He's my friend of 40 year.
[Trump:] I've known him for a long time, and he's actually a quality guy. He's a nice guy.
[Stone:] Donald Trump came to my wedding. I went to two of his. I was at both his parents' funeral.
[Cabrera:] This week, we learned Mueller sized evidence from Stone's iCloud account, his e-mail accounts, cellphones, spanning years. Michael, how likely is it that there are communications involving President Trump?
[Shear:] Well, I mean, I think it's almost certain that there are communications involving the president, and I think the question is, are there relevant communications? Are there communications that go to the heart of or speak to Mueller's investigation? I mean, what we found with Michael Cohen, whose, you know, telecommunications equipment and the like were similarly seized in investigations, was that a lot of that material, a huge portion of it, was just sort of non-relevant, kind of incidental communication. So the question will be, how much of it is actually relevant to the to the investigation? I mean, look, you know, Roger Stone is a person who for decades has treated his entire life like a public relations stunt. That's how he and Donald Trump frankly operated was that, you know, he solved problems in the court of public opinion. I think that the challenge for him is going to be and the hammer hasn't come down yet. But if the gag order is imposed and the court were to and he were to flout it and to say, look, I'm going to continue to go on talk shows. I'm going to continue to talk about this, I mean the court has penalties and can throw him in hold him in contempt and throw him in jail if need be. I mean and what we've seen with the other defendants in this case, like Michael Cohen, is that they sort of have this bravado initially because that's kind of how they act, and that when the real serious, you know, implications of being under federal investigation and accused of crimes comes down, they sometimes change their behavior. And I think that's what we just don't know yet about Stone is whether that you know, that shift will happen when the hammer falls.
[Cabrera:] I want to talk a little bit about the president's interviews this week, in particular what he told the Times. He brushed off the larger Russia investigation by saying he had received assurances from Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein. Listen to this.
[Unidentified Female:] Has Rod Rosenstein given you any sense over the course of the last year about whether you have any exposure either in or there's any concerns or whether you're a target of the Mueller report?
[Trump:] Well, he told he told the attorneys that I'm not a subject I'm not a target of yes. Oh, yes.
[Unidentified Female:] Did he say that about the SDNY investigation, too?
[Trump:] About which?
[Unidentified Female:] The SDNY investigation. Because there's two, there's Mueller and there's Cohen investigation.
[Trump:] I don't know. I don't know about that.
[Unidentified Female:] OK.
[Trump:] That I don't know about.
[Cabrera:] April, important to point out that Trump couldn't remember when Rosenstein would have assured him.
[Ryan:] Right. Right. You know, the president, one, likes to pick out certain things, certain words and certain statements. He'd a lot of times gets it the way he wants it to be. So that's one piece right there. But I think we need to really wait and see how this plays out. I'm not believing that. I want to see how it plays out from Mueller himself and from what other investigation there is or any kind of hearing, what have you. I want to see how it plays out before we jump the gun and believe what the president had to say about this. I'm not saying that he's lying, but I'm saying that the president has a way of picking and choosing words and making things the way he wants them to be.
[Cabrera:] Let me move on to something else, Michael. Sources telling CNN Senate investigators now have information that the phone calls Donald Trump Jr. made involving that blocked number ahead of the infamous Trump Tower meeting with Russians, those phone calls were not with his father. As you know, Democrats had long suspected Trump Jr. informed his father of the meeting in a phone call. How significant is this development?
[Shear:] Well, I think it's significant as a warning to all of us pundits and all of the people who are opining and reporting about the investigation with partial knowledge, right? Only Mueller, only his investigators really know the full extent of what they've got and what they know, and it's always dangerous. And this is a reminder of that, to make assumptions based on limited set of facts. And so I think I think that's number one. But number two, I think you don't make assumptions in the other direction either. It could still be that the people that were at that meeting communicated the information about that meeting, about what was really talked about and the real information that was that was garnered and not the fake story that was later, you know, put out to our newspaper and ultimately to everybody else. It's still possible that that information was really communicated to the president, maybe not through that phone call, maybe through intermediaries. Maybe, you know, in other conversations either in person or on phone or electronically. And we just don't know. So on the one hand, we can't jump to the conclusion that, you know, and it looks like now that jumping to the conclusion about those phone calls was wrong. But neither should people say, well, therefore, the president is exonerated of knowing about the meeting because there may be other ways that he knew about it.
[Cabrera:] April, we also heard the president discredit what his lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, had said about the Trump Tower-Moscow proposal, the talks lasting late into 2016. Quote, "Rudy was incorrect," he said. "Number one, he was incorrect, and we've explained that. He was wrong. Rudy has been wrong a little bit. But what has happened is this. I didn't care. That deal was not important." Honest question here. Why is Rudy Giuliani still the president's lawyer at this point?
[Ryan:] I know, right? Rudy Giuliani is a character. This Rudy Giuliani is nothing like the 911 Rudy Giuliani. Rudy Giuliani has talked too much. You know, we're going back down that line again from Roger Stone now to Rudy Giuliani. They talk too much and they want to play this out in the court of public opinion. But what's happening for Rudy Giuliani, he is contradicting things and he's actually putting the president in jeopardy. And I am wondering if the president has now come out and said this about Rudy Giuliani, which could actually really be really bad for the president as into the president was dealing with this up until, what, November of 2016, that was when he was president-elect. So the bottom line is I'm wondering when the president is going to sever ties. The president is very cognizant of the optics of all the people that have been in his inner circle that have been fired, and I'm wondering what that is for the president to say bye, Rudy.
[Shear:] But you know can I just say, Ana, I'm not 100 percent sure that he really he really doesn't like what Rudy is doing. I think in some ways Rudy throws up chaff into the air for us all to talk about him, to chew on him, and at the end of the day, I'm not sure that the president doesn't like having somebody out there, even if it's not accurate, but that it still kind of puts a lot of distractions into the media for us
[Cabrera:] Even if it's not in his best interest. Guys, got to leave it there.
[Ryan:] It was a great distraction at the beginning, yes.
[Cabrera:] April Ryan, Michael Shear, good to have you with us. Thanks.
[Shear:] Sure.
[Cabrera:] President Trump suggesting he is going to build the wall himself, calling talks to avoid another shutdown a waste of time. Is there a big announcement coming around the State of the Union?