[Ed Gordon:] Now we turn to our roundtable. We're joined today by Roland Martin, executive editor of the Chicago Defender. He's in our Chicago bureau. Karen Narasaki joins us. She's president and executive director of the National Asian Pacific American Legal Consortium. She joins us from our headquarters in Washington, DC. And George Curry is editor-in-chief of the National Newspaper Publishers Association News Service. He joins us from Maryland. All right. Folks, we heard what Dr. Dean had to say earlier this week in his response to my questions. Karen, when you hear this man, I'm curious what your thoughts are. A number of people will suggest that this is a political partisan tool for people to bandy about. What's your thought?
[Ms. Karen Narasaki:] I think it's sad, though, that it's become a partisan discussion, like much that's going on in Washington today. It's taking away the focus from what we really need to be thinking about, which-one of the things that he raised-which is the poverty that's there. Congress is out now rushing to look at who's to blame for the response, but I think Congress needs to be looking at who's to blame for the fact that they had 30 percent unemployment in that city. And my guess is it's much higher for the African Americans there. We need to really be focusing on what's happening to the poor in our country, and we as the richest nation in the world, what are we going to be doing about it?
[Ed Gordon:] Roland Martin.
[Mr. Roland Martin:] I mean, I certainly concur. I mean, what you're dealing with really is years and years and years of neglect. And so there's no doubt in my mind that had the majority of the people had a different skin color, you would have seen a different reaction. But the one thing that I would really hope that leaders from New Orleans and Louisiana-although we're still talking about rescue and relief and relocation-I really think the conversation can really shift towards the reconstruction issue, and that is, we begin to talk about how can New Orleans, these same four individuals, have a hand in rebuilding their city in terms of jobs, in terms of training and nationwide with community colleges. And so I think we-you know, of course, we can sit here and talk about a 911-type commission, but there's still lots of work to be done to get that city back on its feet because it's a vital city to this country.
[Ed Gordon:] George Curry, I asked the government about a fine line, walking a fine line in saying what he sees in earnest and playing a political game. He says-and we'll hear more from him next week-he doesn't care what people think. He believes what needs to be said needs to be said and needs to be said now.
[Mr. George Curry:] Well, I agree with that, but I think we can go beyond his comments. There was a report issued yesterday by the Pew Research Center for the People and the Press and it showed a couple of very interesting things. This racial divide is real in terms of how Americans look at this. Two-thirds of African Americans say that the government would have had a faster response if most of the victims had been white; two-thirds. But by even a larger margin, 77 percent of whites said it wouldn't have made any difference. Another finding was that 71 percent of blacks say that-you know, shows that racial inequality remains a problem, but 56 percent of whites say it doesn't. So you're going to have this massive dialogue, you've got to start right here with this perception of totally two different views of America, everybody looking at the same major event. There is this racial divide. And so Dean is right on that and this is fully documented in this Pew study that came out yesterday.
[Mr. Roland Martin:] Now, Ed, you may find this interesting. I got an e-mail from a woman in Chicago who read a column that I wrote and she said that she and her husband of means wanted to write a $50,000 check and was going to write a second $50,000 check, but she was offended by the images of the individuals, stating that they were demanding federal help out of this whole deal and was put off by that, said that they should have been more respectful and be pleased with what they've gotten thus far. And as I read between the-you know, of course, I obviously replied to her to explain to her what the real issue was, and I certainly was reading between the lines that here was someone of means seeing these largely African Americans demanding help-This wasn't a few days afterwards. So this was still when everything was crazy in the Superdome. She was offended by them demanding assistance and said that, `You know, we worked for these funds.'And you can read through racial, you know, statements within those lines. And I just thought it was very interesting again how white Americans perceive this particular issue where here these folks are-people are dying around them and she thought they should have been more grateful.
[Ed Gordon:] Well...
[Mr. George Curry:] Now while there has been-there certainly is a racial divide on some of these issues. There are some things that Americans agree on, and what is important to me-and that Pew study really surprised me-for the first time since 911 a majority of Americans, 56 percent, said it's more important for the president to focus on domestic policies than the war on terrorism. That's a major finding and a major shift.
[Mr. Roland Martin:] Absolutely.
[Ed Gordon:] Well, I'll say this, and I've said it over the course of the last two weeks, and I'll continue to say it, I think if this country doesn't talk about race, this go 'round-I think we had a great opportunity after the Simpson trial to do it because people were actually saying things they believed in public. We have that opportunity again, and I hope we don't drop the ball. Karen, let's turn our attention to FEMA.
[Ms. Karen Narasaki:] Well, can I just add to that, Ed?
[Ed Gordon:] Sure.
[Ms. Karen Narasaki:] I just think it's doubtful that this administration is going to do that. I mean, they have tried very hard to basically whitewash any racial disparities. There was the report of the official at Department of Justice who was removed from his job because he was fighting the fact that they wanted to-that his bosses wanted to eliminate any references to the fact that Latinos and African-Americans were being racially profiled at high rates from a government report. This has been going on for the last six years. Every kind of report that comes out, whether it's health disparities-even when it's meant to focus on the issue of race, they don't want to talk about it. So I think that's going to be a very hard climb.
[Ed Gordon:] Yeah, I know, but I think it goes beyond just the administration. I just mean people, in general, whether it be the media, folks on the street.
[Mr. Roland Martin:] Absolutely.
[Ed Gordon:] I think we all have to start talking about race and be real about where we stand on it and get past some of the taboo thought and issue that we still have. Let's turn our attention to FEMA, and we heard from a representative of FEMA this week that the agency does not want journalists who accompany them in rescue boats to take pictures of those that are floating still in the streets of New Orleans, those on the side of the road. They say that this kind of recovery needs to be done with dignity and respect.
[Mr. George Curry:] Yeah.
[Ed Gordon:] George Curry, it's hard to hear those words from FEMA right now, isn't it?
[Mr. George Curry:] It's hard for me to hear anything from FEMA, quite frankly. First of all, they wanted dignity and respect, they should have gone out and rescued the people, and they did a poor job of that. So, I mean-and secondly, it's not their decision. I don't want to trust any government official, I don't care whether they're Republican or Democrat, to decide what we can show the American public. I think the news media is smart enough not to show people's facial features, but at the same time, let's not try to sanitize this whole thing. Part of the problem with FEMA-and they've got to focus on photographers and everything else-is that they don't want to focus on their ineptitude during this whole crisis. And part of that-there's a story in The Washington Post this morning that shows that five of the top eight FEMA officials came to their post with virtually no experience in handling disasters. And the top three had connection with Bush's 2000 campaign. So you've got this political payoff here, and you've got inept, inexperienced people at the top, and they've botched this whole operation. And they want to talk about photographing? You talk about their performance.
[Mr. Roland Martin:] Hey, Ed, I was...
[Ed Gordon:] Karen, does Michael Brown...
[Mr. Roland Martin:] Go ahead.
[Ed Gordon:] ...who heads FEMA-Karen, does he need to be fired? And if so, does he need to be fired today? There are those who are actually going as far, as I said, to call for suspending money to this organization until, in fact, he's fired.
[Ms. Karen Narasaki:] I think he does need to be fired. His total lack of sensitivity that has been shown in glaring light over the last week shows that he's just not fit to lead an agency that is going to have a long time in trying to help this region fully recover. I want to note something, though, on the whole photography issue. I think it's a little different than the issue of the ban on photographing the coffins of dead soldiers coming back from Iraq, which I feel is clearly wrong, 'cause it is this issue of seeing individual people whose bodies have been deteriorating for several days and the sensitivity to their families. But I agree that you should be able to photograph something, in that, the media, with appropriate guidelines, about not showing people's faces, the public really needs to know. When you weigh it against the public's need to fully understand and grasp the tragedy, I think that really outweighs FEMA's concerns at least...
[Ed Gordon:] Here's the real unfortunate part. Roland, pick up but let me just say this. Here's the real unfortunate part of this. Anyone that would be photographed at this point probably would be quite frankly unrecognizable by virtue of them laying in the heat, the humidity, the water, and that is the sad part of all of this. Roland, pick up on that.
[Mr. Roland Martin:] Well, I actually ran a photo on our front page of one of those bodies, and the reason being-that is on The Chicago Defender-because I wanted people to fully understand exactly what is going on there. First, those of us in the news media, we know how to make the judgments. We don't need FEMA making those kind of judgments for us. If we're going to show the National Guard rescuing people from helicopters, if we're going to show aid drives, if we're going to show the American Red Cross and FEMA in meetings assisting people, I think you show the good, the bad and the ugly of various situations and allow those of us in the business to make the decision. And if the readers and the viewers decide that we have gone too far, trust me, from experience, they will let us know immediately.
[Mr. George Curry:] And I think there's nothing wrong with when you use a certain taste here. If you got people in a body bag, you don't see the dent anyway. You remember we saw that picture over and over of the elderly person in the wheelchair draped in it. You know, you saw it but you saw it in a respectful manner. And I think as long as you operate along those manners, I think there's nothing wrong with showing them.
[Ed Gordon:] Let us also not lose the lesson that the late great John Johnson gave us when they decided to show the picture of Emmett Till in Jet magazine and the movement that caused. Sometimes a grotesque picture can speak volumes, Roland Martin, to moving people.
[Mr. Roland Martin:] I mean, absolutely. When it was shown in Jet, when it was shown in The Chicago Defender, people responded to it, and again, it's all about judgment. And those of us in the business-I mean, this is not the first tragedy that we have covered. I mean, it is not. And so as far as FEMA, what they should be doing-they're saying we don't have room in our rescue boats, as they say it; that's fine. Do what we do in other tragedies. You have a press pool. A press pool follows a president around when he's doing his photo ops and so if you have a press pool in the situation of a press pool as they're going through rescues-because also we're still discovering that they're still finding people who are still trapped...
[Ed Gordon:] Yeah.
[Mr. Roland Martin:] ...we saw again. We don't need FEMA deciding that. They need to try to figure out how to take care of people and let the press do what we do.
[Ed Gordon:] All right. Roland Martin...
[Mr. George Curry:] Mark my word on this. Mark my word on this. They can't stop the press from showing those pictures.
[Ed Gordon:] ...Karen Narasaki and George Curry, I thank you all for joining us today. Greatly appreciate it.
[Mr. Roland Martin:] Thank you.
[Mr. George Curry:] Thank you.
[Ms. Karen Narasaki:] Great.
[Ed Gordon:] You're listening to NEWS & NOTES from NPR News.