[Unidentified Male:] Would you mind putting out your cigarette please?
[Bland:] I`m in my car, why do I have to put out my cigarette?
[Unidentified Male:] It`s at that point that his irritation rises to the level where he asks her to get out of the car. Step out of the car.
[Bland:] You do not have the right to do that.
[Unidentified Male:] I do have the right. Now step out or I will remove you. There`s nothing on that video that indicates to me that he had probable cause to ask her to get out of the car. I said, get out of the car.
[Bland:] Why am I being apprehended?
[Unidentified Male:] I`m giving you a lawful order.
[Hostin:] Welcome back. I`m Sunny Hostin in for Nancy Grace. We`ve been talking about the mysterious death of Sandra Bland while in police custody, and then, of course, this dashcam video that has recently been released. I have with me again Lisa Lockwood. She`s a former police detective and author of "Undercover Angel." Lisa, in looking at this video, can you tell us whether or not Bland was arrested for simply being rude to the police officer? Because the bottom line is as a former prosecutor myself, I don`t think it is a crime to refuse to turn out your cigarette. So what was she being arrested for?
[Lockwood:] So at that point, when he got her out of the vehicle, she was not under arrest. She was not cuffed. He said get out of the vehicle. Yes, under arrest as far as taking away her liberty at that point, but not under arrest when she was cuffed. The decision to cuff her was when she started mouthing back, and he said, you know what, I`m going to go ahead and put her in custody. That`s allegedly when she did the kicks and that sort of thing, and now he`s got his probable cause. But as I said before, he had a choice at that point to say you`re under arrest for failure to signal and we`re going to go to the station and we`re going to take care of bond and go from there. He escalated something in such a way where his use of force caused her to react in the way she did. And now he has this new probable cause, so to speak.
[Hostin:] In your view, Lisa, was this a good arrest or a bad arrest?
[Lockwood:] This was an unlawful arrest as far as we didn`t get to see her actually kick him. I didn`t see any of that on the video. But certainly, if a person is in pain and they`re moving and trying to move the cuffs or if their head is on the ground, certainly you go into a fight or flight type of situation. She just wanted to get comfortable as far as everything I`ve seen up to this point.
[Hostin:] Thanks, Lisa. I think many people are now, of course, sort of conflating the two videos. The video of Sandra Bland`s arrest, this dashcam video, and then, of course, what happened at the jail. I want to bring in Dr. Michelle Dupre. She is a forensic pathologist. And let`s talk about what may or may not have happened in the jail cell. Bland`s sister is saying that the preliminary autopsy results show deep tissue bruising to her back, because, again, while she was being arrested, this officer jammed his knee, allegedly, into her back. Could that have played any role in her death?
[Dupre:] Sunny, it`s probably not likely. If the injury was not very significant to cause injuries at the time, it`s probably just a bruise. But we would really not know that until we did a complete autopsy. If the autopsy found that, then they would certainly list that as a contributing factor, but it`s unlikely.
[Hostin:] Now, what is also a lot of questions I`m getting, at least on Twitter and people are asking about, she allegedly committed suicide using a liner from inside of a garbage can as some sort of noose. In your experience, is it possible for someone to use a trash bag to kill themselves?
[Dupre:] Sunny, absolutely. Oftentimes, we think that a person has to be even completely suspended. You can actually sit on the ground and hang yourself. So using a liner from a trash bag is entirely possible.
[Hostin:] And that is interesting, because we`re being told, we`re hearing, that her feet were still on the ground, touching the ground when she was found. Another question that I`m getting is how do you get DNA from the trash bag, because that surely is going to be a part of the investigation.
[Dupre:] Yes. There`s many ways we can do that. We can get it from fingerprints, actually, we can get it from touch DNA, or we can also get it from any skin cells that might have been sloughed off on the trash bag. or any type of bodily fluids that were left on the trash bag.
[Hostin:] Thank you so much, Dr. Dupre, for joining me. I also want to bring in Seth Meyers. He`s a clinical psychologist. Another topic of concern here is why would a woman who appears very forthright and alive during this dashcam video, during this arrest, why would she three days later after fighting for her rights kill herself? Many are saying in her family she had no signs of depression.
[Meyers:] Let me say this. If someone successfully suicides, there is always rehearsal behavior in advance. And I`ll explain what that means. Or there are symptoms that you see leading up to it. So there are things like writing a suicide note, giving things away that have personal meaning. Mentioning to friends they feel overwhelmed. So you know, somebody doesn`t just commit suicide out of the blue. There`s often signs of extreme depression, sadness, not being able to show up for work, not being able to do your usual daily activities. Suicide does not happen out of the blue.
[Hostin:] Is it possible then that she had been very depressed and contemplating suicide, and yet nobody in her family knew about that?
[Meyers:] It`s absolutely possible that someone commits suicide without anybody knowing, because there is so much shame most people have around saying, listen, I feel that life is so unmanageable, I can`t do it. A lot of people will swallow those feelings, keep them to themselves, to really save their own pride.
[Hostin:] Can we show a video that we have from Sandra Bland`s Facebook page in which she does discuss having some depression?
[Bland:] It`s been two long weeks and I have been missing in action, but I`ve got to be honest with you, guys. I`m suffering from something that some of you all maybe dealing with right now. It`s a little bit of depression as well as PTSD. I`ve been really stressed out over these past couple of weeks, but that does not excuse me not keeping my promise to you all by letting you know that somebody cares about you, somebody loves you, and that you can go out there and do great things. But I want you guys to know that I`m a human. And so if there are any of you dealing with these same things, depression, post-traumatic stress disorder, it`s okay. It`s okay to talk about it.
[Hostin:] That`s video from Sandra Bland`s Facebook page in which she does discuss having depression, but we also know she was just about to start a new job. So Seth Meyers, clinical psychologist, what does that tell you?
[Meyers:] It is so interesting. Now, in 2015, people are using social media to convey to others what they are going through emotionally. I do threat assessments in Los Angeles, and I can tell you one of the questions that I ask is let me have access to your social media accounts. Let me see what you`re posting. Because people will post threats about hurting other people. People will post information about feeling depressed, suicidal. So I guess the question is, are they posting this as a cry for help? Sometimes.