[Lemon:] Well, here is the story that everybody is still talking about since our exclusive interview last night. A white woman uses a sperm bank to get pregnant and is shocked to discover she was mistakenly given sperm from an African-American donor.
[Camerota:] Oopsie-daisy.
[Lemon:] Yes. Now Jennifer Cramblett is suing that sperm bank. Did they tell you then that, that the sperm you'd gotten was from a black man? How did you find out?
[Jennifer Cramblett, Suiting Over Sperm Bank Mix-up:] They said, "Hold on. Let's go into your file. Let's do a little bit more research." Came back on the line. And then had asked me if I had requested an African-American donor. And at that point, I said, "No, 380 was blonde-haired, blue-eyed, something resembling my partner Amanda." And at that point, they said, "Well, I do believe 330 is an African- American donor. And basically, we can no longer talk to you anymore."
[Camerota:] So she told us that she loves her daughter dearly. You can see how cute she was. But she lives in a town that she says is nearly all white, and she wants her to grow up in a community where her daughter feels accepted. So we've been having some pretty spirited discussions around the office, particularly in the studio last night about this, that we invited "NEW DAY" anchor Chris Cuomo to join us for a no-holds-barred conversation.
[Lemon:] I've been getting it on the street from people, saying, "That was a perfect question, when you asked her, 'Aren't you just happy to have a healthy child?'" What's wrong with black sperm?
[Chris Cuomo, Anchor, "new Day':] Everything is wrong with black sperm, Don. This is America, don't you know that? Listen, I don't like anything about this story. Everything every aspect of it is different shades of uncomfortable. No pun intended. Does she have a lawsuit, she and her partner? Yes, they do. They have a viable lawsuit. Why? Because there was a contract involved. They wanted certain things. They didn't get those things. But what this story really is about is, is there something wrong here? There's certainly something that was incorrect.
[Lemon:] I think everybody agrees she has a lawsuit. But is it worth pursuing? I mean, doesn't being a good parent, having a healthy kid, whatever kid you get, doesn't that really kind of trump everything?
[Camerota:] Because the feeling is that she would be sending the wrong message to her daughter.
[Lemon:] To her daughter, yes.
[Camerota:] So when her child, ten years from now, Googles her name and finds out that there was a lawsuit, that the message will be, "You were imperfect." Or "we didn't want you."
[Cuomo:] I like that they live in a town where being biracial might be a problem, but being a kid of a gay couple isn't a problem.
[Camerota:] OK. We had a very heated, controversial conversation here this week. So here's how the conversation started. We were talking about Bill Maher's show. And Bill Maher made comments about the Muslim world.
[Lemon:] He talked about Islam. And he and about whether or not it was more violent. Shall we just listen to him?
[Camerota:] Let's listen.
[Bill Maher, Host, Hbo's "real Time With Bill Maher":] If vast numbers of Muslims across the world believe, and they do, that humans deserve to die for merely holding a different idea, or drawing a cartoon, or writing a book, or eloping with the wrong person, not only does the Muslim world have something in common with ISIS, it has too much in common with ISIS.
[Camerota:] ok. So then we posed those issues to Reza Aslan, who is a Middle East scholar, and asked whether there is something about Muslim countries' form of justice and human rights that is somehow more primitive than other countries.
[Lemon:] It got heated.
[Camerota:] It did.
[Cuomo:] It got primitive.
[Reza Aslan, Middle East Scholar:] Did you hear what you just said? You said in Muslim countries. I just told you that Indonesia, women are absolutely 100 percent equal to men. In Turkey, they have had more female representatives, more female heads of state in Turkey than we have in the United States.
[Camerota:] Yes, in Pakistan. In Pakistan, women are still being stoned.
[Aslan:] And that's a problem for Pakistan. You're right. So let's criticize Pakistan.
[Cuomo:] He was, in a way, you know, playing off the last story we did. He was playing a little bit of the racereligion card on you guys. He was saying you're calling everybody the same. You're calling them all bad, and you shouldn't do that.
[Camerota:] And by the way, that was a great point. But I thought that what...
[Lemon:] That's what he was saying.
[Camerota:] I think that the point that he made when he said, "Listen to yourselves." We were talking about female genital mutilation where, in Somalia, and Egypt, more than 90 percent of the women are subjected to it. And he said that's an African problem. That's an African continent problem. That's not a Muslim problem. Well, that was an interesting point that he made. That's educational. And but the funny thing is...
[Cuomo:] You're obviously agitated. Why?
[Camerota:] I want to tell you about it. People on Twitter are angry that we even asked the question. If you don't ask the question, you can't have the conversation.
[Lemon:] I agree with that. But that wasn't my beef. The country thing, that wasn't my thing. I was simply asking the question in order to get an answer.
[Cuomo:] Why are people upset? Let's look at it. Either it's just PC gone awry. OK? And you can just dismiss it as that. I wouldn't. And here's why. Do does it promote violence? No. One, Islam is the culture. Being a Muslim, the faith, is that more violent inherently than Judaism or Christianity? No, not if you examine the text. Most experts will tell you exactly that. How it's applied culturally. You now get into a big problem.
[Lemon:] That is a great answer. But I also think, that, you know, Reza, he apologized on Twitter.
[Camerota:] Well, he apologized because during the course of it, he said that the question was stupid, and it implied that I was stupid. And he immediately apologized. And I don't actually need an apology. I think that we need to be able to ask the questions, even controversial questions, even questions that you might deem as stupid. Because then it allows for the conversation. And you have to be able to have the conversation.
[Cuomo:] A lot of Americans think Muslims are inherently violent.
[Camerota:] I don't know who that is.
[Cuomo:] They think it's a faith that encourages jihad, which they take as war against other faiths, and they happen to be wrong.
[Camerota:] But I also want to say that it was interesting that Reza used the example of Indonesia, where he was saying they have they treat women, you know, fairly. Because it was just last weekend that one province in Indonesia, Ache, allowed legally caning of homosexuals. So I don't know that that's the paragon of human rights.
[Lemon:] I think, listen, I think he realized the moment you call someone a name you lose the argument. And that's why that's why he apologized.
[Camerota:] Yes.
[Cuomo:] His tone was very angry. So he wound up kind of demonstrating what people are fearful about when they think of the faith in the first place, which is the hostility of it. Look, here's what you guys are exposing yourselves to. This is the state of play in journalism today. The Muslim world is responsible for a really big part of religious extremism right now. And they are unusually violent. They're unusually barbaric in the places where it's happening. And it's happening there more than it is in other places. Do you therefore want to generalize? Of course not. But you do want to call a situation what it is. It's not a coincidence that ISIS begins with an "I". I mean, that's what's going on in that part of the world. Doesn't mean that other faiths can't be violent and other cultures can't be violent. But you shouldn't be afraid of the question.
[Lemon:] Thank you, sir.
[Camerota:] Six to 9 a.m. tomorrow morning. Cuomo: You were heated up coming to this. You've got it.
[Cuomo:] You were.
[Camerota:] I'm seeing you next week if you're not careful.
[Cuomo:] I know.
[Camerota:] See you later.
[Cuomo:] I'm intimidated.
[Lemon:] Be good to her. Bye-bye.
[Camerota:] Bye-bye.
[Lemon:] We'll see you.
[Camerota:] We'll be right back.
[Lemon:] We'll be right back.