[Don Lemon, Cnn:] It's been exhausted, it's all gone. This is what the president said about that tonight.
[Donald Trump, President Of The United States:] Exhausted is a good thing not a bad thing. It went quickly. It is so popular. The banks had been incredible. It was really executed flawlessly.
[Lemon:] So, listen, $349 billion gone in less than two weeks. I mean, it wasn't flawless. There are so many businesses that couldn't even get their applications processed. It's not a victory lap. With so many businesses in real trouble at this point.
[Austan Goolsbee, Former Chief Economist For President Obama:] Beyond real trouble. It is not a beauty contest. I mean, to say it was popular is an indicator that millions of businesses are losing everything. And what you saw happen here is they made the money first come first serve and then they piped it through the banks. And so, the banks immediately went to the businesses that they already had relationships with. So, your local restaurant and bowling alley and places that are going to have to shut down none of them got money. And if we come to find out now that who actually did got get end up getting the money were hedge funds and pass through entities of millionaires. I really think there's going to be grave outrage on the part of people because the $350 billion was meant to prevent small businesses in all sectors from shutting down. It wasn't meant to be reserve money, reserve for only the people who already had lines of credit at a bank.
[Lemon:] Austan Goolsbee, thank you so much, sir. I appreciate your time. This is CNN Tonight. I'm Don Lemon. It is 11 p.m. on the East Coast. And here are the latest on the coronavirus pandemic. Here's the latest information, I should say. There are now more than 670,000 cases of coronavirus in the United States. More than 33,000 Americans have died from the disease. Worldwide, more than 2.1 million cases. And more than 140,000 deaths. President Trump announcing new guidelines tonight for states to reopen their economies. But telling governors they will be the ones to call the shots on opening their individual states. And incredibly, saying that states which aren't being hit hard by the virus can reopen for business as early as tomorrow as long as they meet the new guidelines. That as the CDC is reporting cases of coronavirus in all 50 states as well as Washington, D.C. Joining me now to discuss is CNN White House correspondent, John Harwood, and our resident fact checker, Daniel Dale. Gentlemen, good evening. John, the president ceded to the medical experts in laying out a multi-phase approach for reopening the country. So, walk us through phase one and when this could begin.
[John Harwood, Cnn White House Correspondent:] He did, Don. And it was a framework that made sense in theory. Without specifying how we're going to get there. First of all, the state has to pass through the gate, shall we say, to get to phase one. And through the gate you have to have 14 days of declining COVID-cases. You have to have a hospital system that can operate not in crisis mode. And you have to have enough testing and contact tracing to keep the new outbreaks under control. Not clear that any state can meet all those criteria now. But if they get to phase one here's what it shows. Under phase one vulnerable people will shelter in place, as they are now. Telework at workplaces is encouraged. Phased return of workers. Schools remain closed. Avoid gatherings of more than 10 people and minimize non- essential travel. That's for starters.
[Lemon:] So, OK, John, so even when we arrive at phase two and, you know, at phase three of these new guidelines, we won't be going back to normal. Will we?
[Harwood:] No. This is going to be a new kind of life in the United States for some time. Certainly, until we get the vaccine. To get to phase two and phase three, first of all states have to pass through the same gate they pass through phase one. Declining test. No sign of any rebound. But if you get to phase two, here's what it calls for. The vulnerable would continue to shelter in place. They would businesses encourage teleworks. Schools would now open. You avoid gatherings of more than 50 people. Up from ten. Non- essential travel is OK. So, vacations that sort of thing. Bars and gyms would be able to open. Although with practicing social distancing. To get to phase three, it's much more wide open. The vulnerable populations would be out and interacting with others. Workplaces would be unrestricted and those big sports venues that's one of the things that President Trump has been specially focused on. Baseball stadiums, that sort of thing could open with only limited physical distancing. That's one of the biggest questions that experts have about this framework is whether that is a safe piece of guidance at this stage in this crisis.
[Lemon:] So, Daniel, governors will decide when they're ready for these phases. But President Trump is claiming that coronavirus isn't an issue in some states. I want you to take a listen to this.
[Trump:] You have states without any problem. You have states with few cases and those few cases have healed. You have states with very little death. Relatively speaking. As I said, one is too many. But you have states with very little and frankly, they're at a point where they have almost nothing.
[Lemon:] What are the facts?
[Daniel Dale, Cnn Reporter:] Don, the president is a serial liar. But here's also within the category of serial lying. He's also a serial pointless exaggerator. It is accurate that some states are less hard hit than others. But the president said tonight that some states are not affected at all. That's not true. As of 10 p.m. the Johns Hopkins tracker had the least hit states in terms of cases as Wyoming with 296. We know that is an undercount because that's confirmed cases. Tons of people aren't being tested. And Don, the president tonight also said that some rural states won't even need to do testing and contact tracing because he said, they have a wide-open spaces and wide open plains. We know that even the most rural states, take South Dakota for example. We have an outbreak there because they have a pork plant where there were cases. So even those rural places have pockets of density, have factories, have places where people congregate. There is no state even the most wide open that is immune from this issue.
[Lemon:] Yes. We're going to talk to someone from South Dakota coming up in the show to talk them about the issues going on there. John, you know, the president isn't being truthful about the testing problem in this country. Isn't an important part of the states safely assessing if they can move into these phases?
[Harwood:] Maybe the most important missing piece right now, Don, and it's a little bit strange that the president is not recognizing this. He continues to assert we have the best test, that sort of thing. Now, Deborah Birx, his task force coordinator said tonight that she and her aides had gone lab by lab and identified some surplus testing capacity. We're now testing about a million COVID test a week. She said they have identified unused capacity of another million a week. Experts say that is still not adequate. And the question is how the states which are struggling to get not only testing kits but also the swabs and reagents and other supplies necessary as well as trained personnel to interpret the test and administer the test. How do they get to where they need to be so that we can safely reopen? Not clear. There are proposals on Capitol Hill for $30 billion from Democrats to be testing procedures and testing purchasing by states. But that has not past the Congress yet.
[Lemon:] All right. Thank you, gentlemen. I appreciate it. I want to bring in now Dr. Syra Madad. She is a special pathogens specialist. So, thank you so much for joining us. I appreciate it. So, doctor, you know, I want to get your reaction to these new White House guidelines. We all want to get back to normal. People want to get back to work. This is aspirational plan, right?
[Syra Madad, Special Pathogens Specialist:] Absolutely. I mean, the guidelines that have been set out they're very vague. And you've heard so many people talk about testing. But you know, it's missing some of the core elements. We don't have a comprehensive testing strategy here in the United States. It's just patch work, unfortunately. And we really need to ramp up our testing. We've been saying this for months now. And it's unfortunate. And what goes along with testing is, you know, you've heard from other speakers, is we are having issues with the supply chain aspects. So, the reagents, the swabs, it's not just about doing broad scale testing. You need to make sure you have the supplies to do it. But then you also need to make sure that, you know, after testing the other cornerstone is isolating these individuals. And then doing contact tracing. You know, a whole army of public health soldiers to do contract tracing and then quarantining those contacts. So, there's an entire strategy that's missing from these guidelines.
[Lemon:] So, this whole idea about the president saying that some states can literally open up tomorrow. One of the benchmarks of the first phase is a sustained decrease in cases of over a 14-day period. How can a state accurately know if they meet that threshold without widespread testing?
[Madad:] That's exactly right. You know, you're basically operating in the blind if you can't do widespread testing. We need testing enable to be able to see what's actually happening in these states and then be able to go on to the next phase. And so, these are just arbitrary guidelines that really almost meaningless. I mean, governors are going to continue to do what they're doing regardless of this. They know what needs to be done. They need a federal partner in this.
[Lemon:] So, doctor, let's say that this summer some states are in phase three. Others are in phase one. What happens if someone who lives in phase three state travels to a phase one state?
[Madad:] That's a very good point. And that's something that needs to be considered. Because we don't want to have, you know, pockets of outbreaks anywhere. So, while you think that you may have you're in a state where you have things under control, you may have a resurgence of cases or clusters because people are moving in and out, not just domestically but internationally. We're seeing this play out in other countries that are starting to lift their social distancing restrictions and you're seeing, you know, flares in those particular areas. And so, we need to be very mindful of that.
[Lemon:] The creator of the coronavirus model cited by the White House says that there's been more social distancing than expected. And that will factor into new estimates that will come out tomorrow. If social distancing has been so successful, what will happen when we stop it?
[Madad:] Well, if we stop social distancing we'll absolutely rebound. We're going to go back to the state, to the state that we were and we're going to continue to climb. We're going to see a lot more morbidity, a lot more mortality. You're going to see healthcare systems continue to get overwhelmed. They're already overwhelmed. This is going to take it to a whole new level. And it's going to be unfortunate. And so, these are the things that we want to absolutely avoid. So, we need to make sure we're doing the right the right things and moving in the right direction. And we're absolutely not right now.
[Lemon:] So, listen, I know that you're not a political person, but there are people who have been critical saying that the models were off, right? And that and all of this was for naught. But when you look at what the creator of this model have cited, right. This is the White House model. When he is saying that there's been more social distancing than expected. Meaning that it is worked better than they expect it. So, doesn't that sort of refute what the critics are saying about this whole thing?
[Madad:] Well, models are, you know, they're models. You have best-case scenario and a worst-case scenario. And luckily in this case the models were wrong in terms of some of their predictions which is, you know, [Inaudible] we're seeing less morbidity and less mortality than estimated. But with the social distancing measures they're obviously working. We're able to flatten the curve in many parts, certainly here in New York City, though we're still seeing thousands of cases. We need to just continue on to do these measures and make sure that we have a bridge until we have a vaccine available. And so, within this bridge that requires testing requires a much broader public health strategy in place that we need to continue to world towards.
[Lemon:] Let's talk about Remdesivir, OK? Because there's a report that coronavirus patients receiving this experimental drug, Remdesivir, that they are recovering very quickly. With most going home within days after having severe respiratory systems. The trial is still ongoing. But how encouraging is this?
[Madad:] It is very encouraging. But at the same time, it is still a trial. So, we want to make sure that we actually have, you know, good data available. And that it can go through an FDA approval process fast to be able to be used widespread. But it certainly sounds very promising. And this is something we need we need more glimmers of hope, if you will.
[Lemon:] Yes, absolutely. Dr. Syra Madad, thank you so much. I appreciate your time. And I hope that you will join me along with my colleague Van Jones for a look at coronavirus in communities of color. We're going to have a special conversation and messages of hope from Sean Diddy Combs, Merica Ferrer, Charles Barkley, and many more. The color of COVID-19. It's live Saturday at 10 p.m. Eastern right here on CNN. And across America everybody wants to know when the crisis will end. But the real question is, how do we continue? Is America prepared for what our lives will look or be like?