[Unidentified Male:] ... we`d still be back in the dark ages of investigating crime.
[Jane Velez-mitchell:] Breaking news tonight, and it is the motion I`m holding in my hands. Convicted murderer Jodi Arias is at it again. She has just fired herself. That`s right: she wants to go back to having a real attorney represent her in the crucial penalty phase retrial to decide if she should live or die. Call it her own twisted take on a woman`s prerogative to change her mind. Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell coming to you live. You are looking at Jodi`s hand-written note, a request to the judge, saying, "Hey, Judge, you know when I said I wanted to represent myself and act as my own lawyer? Never mind. I`ve changed my mind again." Is this stunt just a move designed to give herself, well, a chance to spend more weepy dramatic time on the witness stand? Remember this?
[Jose Martinez, Prosecutor:] Ma`am, were you crying when you were shooting him?
[Jodi Arias, Convicted Murderer:] I don`t remember.
[Martinez:] Were you crying when you were stabbing him?
[Arias:] I don`t remember.
[Martinez:] How about when you cut his throat, were you crying then?
[Arias:] I don`t know.
[Martinez:] So take a look then. And you were the one that did this, right?
[Velez-mitchell:] Jodi was convicted last year of brutally murdering her lover, Travis Alexander, in 2008. Jodi stabbed him repeatedly and slit his throat ear to ear, nearly decapitating him. And then for good measure shot him in the head. The jury who convicted her couldn`t agree on whether she should face life in prison or death by lethal injection. So a new trial on the penalty phase. Now, this retrial has been delayed over and over. I want to hear from you. What do you think of this latest stunt, going back on her demand that she be able to represent herself? Now she says, "No, never mind." 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297. And please join my conversation. Go to my Jane Velez-Mitchell Facebook page, or you can talk to me on Twitter, @jvm. Our expert Lion`s Den panel standing by, ready to debate this. But first out to Nancy Grace producer Alexis Weed. You got your hands on this motion. What have you learned about this latest stunt and its implications for the penalty phase coming up?
[Alexis Weed, Hln Producer:] Yes. How about it, Jane? Jodi Arias saying in her motion that she filed just today through her attorney, saying, "I hereby move to relinquish my pro se status and request my Sixth Amendment right to counsel." So a month ago, she was saying she wanted to represent herself, and here we are today, where she`s saying, "Nope, I want to relinquish that. I want my lawyers back." So is this a stunt for another delay? Is it her attempt to get Nurmi off this trial once and for all? Who knows? We won`t find out until Monday when the next hearing takes place.
[Velez-mitchell:] That`s right. Areva Martin, attorney, there`s going to be a big hearing. It`s supposed to be like the last hearing before September 29 when potential jurors come in. And we were all thinking about this surreal concept of Jodi interviewing jurors, and saying, "Hey, do you recognize my face? Did you hear the sex tape that I recorded with Travis Alexander?" And we thought, well, that`s crazy. But now she`s said, "Never mind. I don`t want to represent myself anymore." Is this a delay tactic? Is it just that it`s becoming real for her and she`s getting nervous because she got her GED behind bars and probably doesn`t know we know she doesn`t know the terminology needed to represent herself?
[Areva Martin, Attorney:] You know, Jane, this lady just loves attention. She loves the cameras. She loves, you know, dropping bombs on everyone. So we can`t help but think that this is another one of those situations. However, though, this judge has made it very clear that there will be no more delays. Now, typically, in a case like this, you know, there`s a request for new counsel to come into a case, particularly a case of this size. That attorney, if it`s not the folks that have been representing her, are going to need a lot of time to get up to speed. But this judge has said no more delays. So it`ll be interesting to see if new counsel is selected and if that counsel tries to get some additional time to delay this penalty phase of Jodi`s trial.
[Velez-mitchell:] Well, look, she`s said no delays, but she`s delayed, delayed, delayed, delayed. And of course, she`s done that, because it`s a death penalty trial and she doesn`t want to make any mistakes that will allow that one in the sunglasses to file an appeal. Danny Cevallos, come Monday when there`s going to be this final crucial hearing, and we all know now that Jodi is saying, "No, I don`t want to represent myself anymore." Well, what do you predict she`s going to do on Monday? Ask for a delay? Ask to get a new attorney? What?
[Danny Cevallos, Hln Legal Analyst:] Pro se defendants, Jane, are at once the bane and also the glory of the legal system. And in many cases, pro se defendants don`t understand, necessarily, what`s going on, and they know they only have one tool, one weapon in their arsenal, and that sometimes is just delay. It`s doing something: filing a motion, changing your mind. And as much as it may frustrate us, let`s try to take a step back and remember we are talking about the death penalty and a constitutional right, as irritating as it may be, for every defendant to represent themselves at court.
[Velez-mitchell:] Danny Danny, I love you. I love you, but here`s the thing.
[Cevallos:] Thank you.
[Velez-mitchell:] First she represented herself once before for about a week back in 2011 or 2000 yes, 2011. Then she decided she was in over her head and asked for her lawyers back. Then she got her lawyers back. And then she said, "OK, I want these lawyers." Then the lawyers said, "I want off the case." No, no, no, she`s got to have the lawyers. She says, "No, I want to represent myself." Now she finally got the chance to represent herself, and after a few weeks, she`s saying, "NO, I don`t want to represent myself anymore." I mean, this is madness, and I`ve got to bring in a psychiatrist, Dion Metzger. I mean, this is she is crazy, not legally, because she knows right from wrong.
[Dion Metzger, Psychiatrist:] Right.
[Velez-mitchell:] But this is part of her craziness that makes her impossible, that makes her infuriating and that makes herself somewhat fascinating.
[Metzger:] I mean, it`s very fascinating. And part of me wondered if she`s wondering if she`s going to get too emotional when she`s trying to represent herself. Because look how much she was crying on the stand. She may be wondering... We`re not positive, but OK, she may be wondering, "OK, maybe my emotions might interfere with my ability to defend myself."
[Velez-mitchell:] Or maybe she figures "It`s going to be a little harder for me to fake crying on the witness stand if I`m also asking myself the question. Maybe I should go back to being the witness so I can just sit there and sob, even though no actual tears come out. Because if I`m asking the questions, that`s going to make me too serious and objective. I need to be able to show emotion." What do you think of that analysis, Rachel D`Alto, relationship expert?
[Rachel D`alto, Relationship Expert:] I think that`s actually the most logical way to explain it. And this is the most logical decision that she`s made during this trial. So obviously, she`s she`s very emotional and has a lot of issues regarding her defense and the facts that surround this case. So for her to be able to defend herself and do it during the penalty phase, I just don`t know see how that was ever a possibility. So whether she`s doing it for attention or whether she finally came to her senses, in a miniscule way, in this case, then that`s what I see here.
[Velez-mitchell:] It was painfully clear for a long time.
[Martin:] You know, Jane...
[Velez-mitchell:] Go ahead.
[Martin:] Jane, we can`t underestimate the gravity of this situation. You pointed out, this woman has a GED that she got in jail. She didn`t go to college; she doesn`t have a law degree. A penalty phase of a death penalty case is the most significant and probably the most difficult, you know, legal proceeding that`s going to take place in a courthouse. This woman was not prepared to handle that kind of case. And hopefully, she came to her senses and realized that it`s her life at stake. This is not a game. This is not, you know, a reality television show. This is real life. So hopefully...
[Velez-mitchell:] I`ve got to get I`ve got to get to this. It`s been very well known that Jodi Arias and one of her attorneys, her lead attorney, Kirk Nurmi, really despise each other. Remember this?
[Kirk Nurmi, Defense Lawyer:] It`s not even about whether or not you like Jodi Arias. Nine times out of ten, I don`t like Jodi Arias.
[Velez-mitchell:] So Danny Cevallos, if now we go back to that attorney, who has asked off the case repeatedly and been denied, who has said in open court he doesn`t like his own client, if he loses the case and she gets sentenced to death, isn`t that a natural for her to appeal?
[Cevallos:] Well, she`s going to appeal no matter what happens. But that statement that Nurmi made in closing, I`ve heard a lot of defense attorneys say that it sort of rationalizes their argument to the jurors to say, "Hey, if you don`t like her, I don`t like her either." But yes, when you have a defendant like Jodi Arias, they often get into fights with their attorney. Why? Because it`s the only person they can fight with, especially when they`re court-appointed. They feel like that court-appointed attorney is just another member of the government trying to take them down. And they can been incredibly frustrating to deal with. Remember, imagine yourself incarcerated...
[Velez-mitchell:] Here`s the thing. He doesn`t like her. He`s been in this nightmare. He`s a victim of Jodi Arias. He`s been trapped in this nightmare of a case since 2008 or thereabouts. He`s been her attorney for years; doesn`t want to be her attorney. Why why would he go out and do an absolutely ferocious job defending her when he can`t stand her?
[Cevallos:] I can answer that. I...
[Velez-mitchell:] OK. Quickly.
[Martin:] Jodi Jane, he`s a professional. That`s what he gets paid to do.
[Cevallos:] I can answer that, Jane. As lawyers who take court appointments as lawyers who take court appointments, we are duty bound to zealously represent our client, even when it`s a client that we can`t stand. And if you don`t think that happens a lot, talk to any defense attorney.
[Velez-mitchell:] All right. Debbie, New York, what you got to say? Debbie, New York.
[Caller:] Hi, Jane.
[Velez-mitchell:] Hi.
[Caller:] My comment is that we have to change the Constitution. Because people who do not have law degrees shouldn`t be getting up and wasting everyone`s time. That`s No. 1. No. 2, someone whispered in her ear and said, "Are you crazy? You can`t do this." She didn`t make this up on her own. She`s too smart for that. She`s smart as she`s as dumb as her socks. And thirdly, I agree. Her attorney just didn`t want to be as hated like his client was, so he had to make that comment. In the public opinion, he wants to be liked. And he wouldn`t be liked aligning himself with the likes of her. And she`s going not to get the death penalty.
[Velez-mitchell:] Well, that`s interesting, because all she needs is one person. Twitter saying, Dee says, "Jodi knows this will be her last public appearance. She`s playing it for all its worth." Tracy says, "It`s all attention seeking behavior. Nothing more. She`s disgusting." Jodi`s defense, of course, at her trial where she was convicted focused on demonizing the man that she slaughtered, Travis Alexander. She tried to paint him as a pedophile, an abuser, a sexual deviant.
[Arias:] When he spun me around, he bent me over the bed. He lifted up my skirt, and he pulled down my underwear. He unzipped his pants. He began to have anal sex with me.
[Velez-mitchell:] Alexis Weed, "NANCY GRACE" producer, you were in the courtroom. We sat next to each other watching that obscenity. Juan Martinez very successfully argued she`s a pathological liar. But do you get the sense that she`s going to try to throw Travis under the bus again and basically, it`s going to be the same old "Jodi the victim" song and dance during this retrial?
[Weed:] Absolutely. She took every opportunity she had during the first part of the trial to throw him under the bus. So I don`t see why she would not keep on going. That was her mantra during that whole time when we sat there. You remember.
[Velez-mitchell:] Oh, yes. We I mean, it was cringe-worthy. But Prosecutor Martinez did a great job. This man is the victim. And she better not try to put him on trial. She better not take the stand and sob and call him every name in the book and lie because, you know what? She`s been exposed as the pathological liar that she is. And I outline it in my "New York Times" best seller, "Exposed: The Secret Life of Jodi Arias." And that book is now out in paperback. And I`ve got to tell you, it`s a very good way, perfect way to get up to date on the case before the death penalty phase starts up in a couple of weeks. I reveal secrets in this book, "Exposed," that never came out at trial. And it`s available everywhere, so I hope you check it out. Up next, she was having a very steamy affair with her good friend`s husband, and now she`s dead. What happened in this love triangle that led cops to discover the victim of murder?
[Unidentified Female:] The apparent motive of the murder of Kelly Brennan: jealousy. Police say Trott killed Brennan at the house where she was staying, hid her body at Mark`s Landing, then called her mother to confess.