[Anderson Cooper, Cnn Anchor:] Good evening again, everyone. Take a moment now, and take a look at this.
[Randi Kaye, Cnn Correspondent:] I strapped one here to my arm just to see how powerful the shock is. It's delivered with a remote control. Oh! Oh, man. That hurts.
[Cooper:] That is CNN's Randi Kaye. Now imagine the same thing done to your child it looks like torture to some. Some parents call it that. Yet, others say it's a godsend for stopping kids from hurting themselves or others. What it is, indisputably, is controversial electric shock aversion therapy for kids. We will take a closer look a bit later on the program. We begin, however, with a shakeup at the White House. The chief of staff, Andy Card, is out, resignation accepted, replaced with another Bush insider. The reaction? You need a bigger shakeup, said one former White House insider we talked to. He said, start with Dick Cheney and go all of the way down to Barney the dog. Now, those words came from Paul Begala, a liberal Democrat who worked in the Clinton administration. But plenty of Republicans agree on the need for some kind of drastic action all the angles tonight on the White House shakeup. Is it really a shakeup or just a new face for old policies? Will more White House officials be replaced? And does the president get it? Or, as a lot of Republicans up for election this fall are complaining, has the White House been deaf to their needs? We will also investigate what awaits a former top dog at the White House. Here's a hint: not exactly a life of misery. Money, yes. Misery, no. We begin with the shakeup. Here's CNN's Suzanne Malveaux.
[George W. Bush, President Of The United States:] I accepted...
[Suzanne Malveaux, Cnn White House Correspondent:] He held the job longer than anyone in half-a-century.
[Bush:] He came to me about two-and-a-half weeks ago two weeks ago and said: "I think it may be time for me to go on. I have you know, I have given it my all."
[Malveaux:] Chief of Staff Andy Card wanted to leave after Mr. Bush's 2004 win, and had told him so. But it was this weekend in Camp David, according to the White House, when President Bush accepted his resignation. Budget chief Josh Bolten is now in.
[Bush:] Now Josh's job is to design a White House staff that meets the needs of the president.
[Malveaux:] A shakeup at the White House? Hardly.
[Charlie Black, Republican Strategist:] I think what has occurred today is, a very fine public servant decided to retire and was replaced by another Bush insider.
[Malveaux:] And that's the way the president likes it. Despite strikes by terrorists and hurricanes, bruising legislative battles, war, and sagging poll numbers, President Bush's team continues to defy history by remaining almost entirely intact five years after the president first took office.
[Black:] He's a demanding boss. He's he's demanding of those people. And what he demands are are loyalty and teamwork.
[Malveaux:] Charlie Black, who has advised Presidents Reagan and both Bushes, says those demands have worked in this president's favor.
[Black:] This White House staff has been more unified and had less infighting and less freelancing than any White House in modern history.
[Malveaux:] But critics, now including some top Republicans on the Hill, believe the president's leadership style has ultimately hurt him, isolating him from fresh ideas and bad news.
[Ron Brownstein, Cnn Political Analyst:] It has been an administration that that that has prided loyalty, and and, also, just hasn't been that congenial for the independent voices who are out there, striking notes discordant from the general themes the administration wants to press.
[Malveaux:] The president's inner circle remains small. Aides say, his Oval Office door is open to just a handful who have been with him since he came to Washington in 2001 among those, Vice President Dick Cheney, political guru Karl Rove, White House counsel Harriet Miers, and others.
[Black:] If he has no suspicion whatsoever that they have their own agenda, then, it allows him to trust them and become completely comfortable with them.
[Malveaux:] And those who have departed generally have not.
[Black:] If there is a common denominator, it seems to me that this sense of loyalty and teamwork that the president demands, that folks who left might not have adhered to that, or at least he didn't perceive them to be complete team players.
[Malveaux:] But Bush aides say that is not the case with Andy Card. But the big question remains whether or not his departure will help rejuvenate President Bush's agenda. Some GOP strategists are skeptical one of them telling me that a White House staff change will not bring victory in Iraq any time sooner. Suzanne Malveaux, CNN, the White House.
[Cooper:] Well, that, of course, may be the bottom line. If things were going well, no one would be demanding changes. As long as things keep going poorly, no amount of bloodletting will be enough for some. That said, compared to other shakeups in other administrations, this one is pretty tame, leaving for a lot of people looking for the next shoe to drop. CNN's Ed Henry reports.
[Ed Henry, Cnn Congressional Correspondent:] After White House Chief of Staff Andy Card's resignation, the question now, is this the end of the shakeup or just the beginning?
[Question:] Mr. President, will you make more staff changes? ... staff changes? ... more staff changes?
[Henry:] With Republicans calling for an infusion of new blood, someone to reinvigorate the White House's agenda on Capitol Hill, amid plummeting poll numbers, the president tried to sell budget chief Josh Bolten, who has had close contact with congressional leaders, as just the man to replace Card.
[Bush:] No person is better prepared for this important position. And I'm honored that Josh has agreed to serve. The next three years will demand much of those who serve our country. We have a global war to fight and win.
[Henry:] But, like Card, Bolten has been at the president's side since day one of the administration, and served as policy director in the 2000 campaign hardly a newcomer. And senior Republicans privately say, a broader shakeup is need, a notion welcomed by some outside activists.
[Bay Buchanan, President, American Cause:] I do not think that changing changing the chairs between Card and Bolten changes anything.
[Henry:] While White House spokesman Scott McClellan did not rule out more changes, he said it's premature to speculate on the fate of other top aides not good enough for some senior Republicans, who are demanding a bigger shakeup. Ed Henry, CNN, the White House.
[Cooper:] Well, the White House may not want to speculate about what comes next, if anything comes next. But that is not stopping our correspondents, of course, from working their sources. CNN's John Roberts and John King sat down with me after a long day on the phones. John King, a lot of critics baying for fresh blood in this White House. Will this satisfy them?
[John King, Cnn Chief National Correspondent:] No, not at all. In fact, I talked to a very senior Republican strategist very close to this White House, and he called this replacing Tweedle-Dee with Tweedle-Dum. Republicans say, this is not enough, Anderson. And their main point is that the president needs a new a new person, a new person of stature in his inner circle. Josh Bolten for Andy Card replaces one longtime Bush adviser with another longtime Bush adviser. It is not enough to satisfy the Republicans. You can only imagine, the Democrats want more, too.
[Cooper:] John Roberts, what about that? When Ronald Reagan got in trouble in his second term, he brought in Howard Baker, who had a you know, former Senate. Should should should this Bush have brought in somebody with connections to to to Capitol Hill?
[John Roberts, Cnn Senior National Correspondent:] A lot of people I talked to today say that it's it's pretty much a wash. Andy Card and Josh Bolten, I mean, they're somewhat interchangeable. Andy Card perhaps has a little bit more experienced in the public sector than does Josh Bolten. Josh Bolten is a a brilliant guy, a terrific manned manager, but, as John King said, a a longtime Bush insider. He's a guy that likes to keep a low profile.
[Cooper:] John King, do you think this is the last change we're going to see?
[King:] I do know this. Josh Bolten has already signaled to the Republicans around town that he wants to listen to their concerns. This is what he will hear, Anderson. He will hear them say, the president needs to change his management style. The president needs to think whether he wants to have Karl Rove, Dan Bartlett, and the other Texans who have been him since day one in his inner is circle, or whether he is willing to bring in somebody new to the inner circle. Now, I know the president's thoughts on this from talking to those senior aides. They say the president believes he has precious time to waste here, and he doesn't want to have to get used to somebody new.
[Cooper:] John Roberts, I mean, Cheney and and Karl Rove both have so much power in this White House. Was Andy Card in that inner circle that John King talked about?
[Roberts:] Oh, Andy Andy Andy Card was the anchor of the center of the circle. He was the the the pinnacle of stability at that White House. He was the guy who made the trains run on time. And you had the personalities like Dick Cheney and Karl Rove operating around that. But he was at the very center. And he's the guy that really kept the president grounded. Josh Bolten is cut from very much the same cloth. As I said, he's a tremendous manager. I don't know that he will have the same sway over the president as Andy Card did, simply because, you know, Card is Card is Card is a wise fellow, who was there for Bush 41. Josh Bolten, while he's very close to the president, may not carry that same sort of credibility.
[Cooper:] Well, John King, I mean, if if if the president's biggest problem is is Iraq, how much can this move help the White House on that issue? It doesn't seem like much.
[King:] Well, that is the view of the White House, Anderson, in that they don't think changing the personnel is going to change their fundamental problem, which is the war in Iraq. They did realize, though and they give Andy Card credit. They say, he realized that, we were going to keep asking this question. Republicans were going to keep demanding change at the White House, until there was some change at the White House. Will this be enough? Most Republicans at this point say no.
[Cooper:] John King, I'm interested in something you just said, though, that the White House acknowledging the problems they have with Iraq. What what do they see the problems with Iraq as being? Is it is it a perception problem? Is it the the media's reporting? Is that the problem? Or is it just events on the ground not going their own way? I assume it's not a policy a policy problem that they see?
[King:] They they think it is mostly events in Iraq and media coverage. They they look, they blame the media. They say the media is not covering the positive stories. They also acknowledge that the only way you're going to convince the American people progress is being made is to pull the U.S. troops back, let the Iraqi troop do the most most of the security work, not just some of it, not just this raid or that raid, but most of it, and get a government up and running, get the unity government. They have been bickering about this for months. The Bush administration realizes, that is the only way. They're hoping that, between now and the November election, they can make substantial progress. But Republicans are increasingly nervous.
[Cooper:] John King, John Roberts, thanks. Well, we talked about Howard Baker a moment ago with them. Ken Duberstein Duberstein worked alongside him. He knows better than most what it feels like to arrive at a White House under pressure. This was during the Reagan years. We spoke earlier today. Ken, back in November 2005, you said and I quote "I think that they need to bring in some new blood, but new blood that would give the president differing opinions, not somebody who has been burned out for four or five years." Did the president do that this time?
[Ken Duberstein, Republican Consultant:] I think today's move, with Andy Card resigning and Josh Bolten coming in, is both change and continuity, change in the sense of replacing Andy, who, clearly, is tired, having done an absolutely first-class job, but tired, five-and- a-half years in a pressure cooker of 18-hour days, not five days a week, but seven days a week.
[Cooper:] Yes. I read he got up at 4:30, would be...
[Duberstein:] Right.
[Cooper:] ... in the White House by around 5:30, and...
[Duberstein:] Right.
[Cooper:] ... often stay until 8:00 or 9:00, which is just...
[Duberstein:] Well...
[Cooper:] ... unbelievable.
[Duberstein:] Well, Anderson, I used to kid that, before I became chief of staff, I was 6'4", and now I became 5'9, when I finished.
[Cooper:] But that's the kind of job it is. So, you know, Andy deserves a break. For outsiders, I think it's hard to to comprehend the scope of this job, chief of staff. I mean, we talked a little bit about the hours already.
[Duberstein:] Right.
[Cooper:] But but the wear and tear, I mean, what is it like what was it like for you? What was it like for Andy Card?
[Duberstein:] You know, when the phone rings in the middle of the night, as it often does for a White House chief of staff, somehow, it's never good news. But everything falls on you. You're the javelin catcher. You're not the javelin thrower. You're the person who decides and helps the president decide who he sees and who he doesn't, what he says, how he says it, to whom he says it. You're always there. And your constituency is a constituency of one well, actually, one-and-a-half, because the first lady is also part of the equation.
[Cooper:] What should outsiders, all of us, be looking for in these coming weeks? I mean, will there suddenly be new life? Will there be any visible change, do you think?
[Duberstein:] Well, I think President Bush's policies will remain the same, but the question is whether Josh Bolten, with the staff, is there's a new little, new sense of energy, of encouragement. That's not to dis, in the slightest, Andy Card he has done a great job but, rather, to say, let's renew that spirit. Let's start spending some more of those chips. Let's get up in the morning and start smiling. And, you know, that is very contagious. When I came back with Howard Baker when Howard was chief of staff and I was deputy chief of staff Ronald Reagan was at 37 percent in the polls, just where George W. Bush is now. And Ronald Reagan, through a number of policies, wound up at 68 percent, the highest job approval of any two- term president at the end of his presidency. But when he came, everyone was demoralized. At 37 percent, it's tough to go true those gates at the White House every morning.
[Cooper:] Gosh, I thought politicians didn't pay attention to polls.
[Duberstein:] Some do, and some don't.
[Cooper:] That's what they all say, at least. Ken Duberstein...
[Duberstein:] You got that.
[Cooper:] Yes. Appreciate your perspective. Thank you very much.
[Duberstein:] Anderson, my pleasure.
[Cooper:] Isn't it nice to hear someone from a White House saying that they actually do pay attention to polls? Well, the long hours, the critics, the burnout, it strikes Democrat and Republican alike, of course. Our political contributor Paul Begala was counselor to President Clinton. And, as we mentioned at the top of the program tonight, he isn't shy about offering advice to presidents of either party. Paul, Senator Chuck Schumer said that Bolten replacing Card quote "is simply rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. If the White House is looking to change course, they picked the wrong person to toss overboard." How much of a difference will Bolten make, in terms of policy?
[Paul Begala, Cnn Contributor:] Well, none, apparently. We don't really know. But he Bolten has been there from day one. So, he's as exhausted as Andy Card is as Andy goes out the door. He's not fresh blood. And he has never been a man accused of heretical thinking or challenging basic assumptions. the president likes a tight circle. And, frankly, he likes a lot of yes men and women. And that's his style. And, you know, he has a right he won the election. He has a right to have whoever he wants, even if people like me don't like it.
[Cooper:] Our old friend Bob Novak said that Karl Rove is the one basically in charge, and that what the Bush team needed wasn't a a new chief of staff, but, really, a new concept of chief of staff. Do you agree?
[Begala:] I I suspect Novak is a lot closer to Rove these days than I am, although... I have known Karl for a long time. But I think that's probably true, and that Karl is the power behind the throne there a very able guy, a very smart guy. I'm one of the few Democrat who would say this, but I actually kind of like Karl. You know, he is fine. The problem is, he has been in there he went he he got President Governor Bush elected in '94, got him reelected in '98, did the presidential in 2000, then the recount, then 911, then the midterm. Somewhere in there, we had a couple of wars. So, he's completely exhausted. He is toast. I think he's just a very happy man that he's not indicted. And that's not the standard to be the most important person in the White House. I I if it was me, I would start with Dick Cheney and finish with Barney the dog, and fire the lot of them.
[Cooper:] Yes, but you I mean, you're a a Democratic strategist. I mean, isn't some of that just just, you know, your natural aversion to these guys? I mean, what is...
[Begala:] No.
[Cooper:] What what do you just, what is really the problem, as you see it? Apart from policy disagreements that you may have, are are they all just tuckered out?
[Begala:] Right.
[Cooper:] Is that what you're saying?
[Begala:] That's what I'm saying. There are a whole lot of energetic, principled, free-thinking, right-wing conservative Republicans who could step right into that job. And I think that's what that is what the president needs. It is, frankly, in the Democrats' political interest for Bush to continue the status quo, because that's what they want. They want to have a change election. And they're going to have a change election. And if the president fails to let off some of that steam, bleed off some of that energy for change, it's actually very good for the Democrats. So, if I swap and put my partisan hat on, I would say Bolten is great for the Democrats. But, as somebody who used to work in the White House, I know, you get worn out. Look, I turned in my notice, my two-weeks notice, the day after Clinton was found not guilty in the Senate impeachment trial. I was toast. I was through. And these guys have been through three or four versions of the impeachment. And, so, many of them are very able. Many of them are friends of mine. But I think they're tired.
[Cooper:] But your criticism seems to be that this president does not surround himself with people you know, he he surrounds himself with too many like-minded people. Does any president has any president in the past really wanted to surround themselves with with people who disagreed with him?
[Begala:] Oh, sure. I mean, you can go back in history and read Doris Kearns Goodwin's wonderful new biography of Abraham Lincoln. I have actually had the honor, the the pleasure of interviewing a whole lot of the senior Reagan people, including Secretary Weinberger and Lyn Nofziger, both of whom passed away in the last few days. Ronald Reagan had a lot of very strong people around him. Certainly, Clinton did, a lot of strong people. They fought a lot. They disagreed a lot, God knows. So, yes, I think, in fact, Bush is the aberration here, and and not and not the rule. Most presidents, and, frankly, the successful ones, have had a lot of strong people around them.
[Cooper:] Well, being an ex-White House staffer is an exclusive club, and membership does have its privileges. Coming up, we are going to show you why Andy Card's future may be brighter and, well, way richer than ever. Plus, have you seen what is going on in France? Outrage on the streets, some of the largest protests the country has seen in decades. What is behind them? We will take a look. Also, the latest in child discipline shocking kids until they behave, literally shocking them. Is it safe? Is it civilized? Does it work? Inside the controversial treatment when 360 continues.