[Blitzer:] It was the first day of open, public, live on television hearings in President Trump's impeachment inquiry, two senior lifelong American diplomats taking serious questions on whether the president of the United States abused his office. And there were some very striking and surprising moments. John Dean is here, he was the White House counsel to President Nixon. Also with us, Paul Rosenzweig, senior fellow at the R Street Institute, a former Homeland Security assistant secretary. Guys, thanks very much for coming in. So, John, what was the most striking moment for you?
[John Dean, Cnn Contributor:] I think the bombshell, obviously, that very early, the testimony that that one of Taylor's aides had heard the conversation with Sondland, thrusting Sondland, who's a volunteer witness, right back in the middle of this. I think he'll probably regret having come forward and not claimed this absolute immunity because he's now a key witness.
[Blitzer:] What do you think, Paul?
[Paul Rosenzweig, Former Deputy Assistant Secretary For Policy, Homeland Security:] I think that that was certainly a bombshell. I think the other really significant factor that showed up yesterday was the utter inability of the Republicans to kind of find a consistent factual theme, and to essentially be erecting fake legal arguments as their defense. It shows the kind of weakness of where they are right now.
[Blitzer:] Where do you think, Paul, this is all heading?
[Rosenzweig:] Well, I think it's inevitably going to head to a vote on the House floor for impeachment. The main question there is going to be whether or not any Republicans break ranks, especially some of the people who are retiring like Representative Rooney, Representative Hurd. And then to the Senate, where who knows what's going to happen.
[Blitzer:] Listen to this clip. You know, John, this is a Republican congressman, Jim Jordan. Let me play it.
[Unidentified Female:] the point that these are secondhand witnesses, but the White House isn't
[Rep. Jim Jordan:] Not secondhand. It's Sondland talked to Yermak and then Sondland Yermak and Sondland have a conversation, then Sondland talks to Morrison, and then Morrison talks to Taylor. And this all happens in Warsaw, where Vice President Pence is meeting with President Zelensky and nothing happens there.
[Blitzer:] So he's saying none of these witnesses
[Dean:] Thank you for that.
[Blitzer:] had any firsthand information.
[Dean:] Thank you for that, thank you for that. Paul and I were talking about that in the green room. It is the biggest bogus claim, that there's no proof of the president's involvement. There are exceptions to the hearsay rule. There are more exceptions that play out every day in courtrooms criminal, civil and that's the way we communicate. When when my wife tells me that my dogs are doing something or my son is doing something, I don't have direct information, but I rely on it. It's the way we operate as a society. This is bogus.
[Rosenzweig:] Well, I think that the to bring it to the legal framework, there's a clear exception to the hearsay rule that says the statements in furtherance of a plan in the criminal context, a criminal plan, a criminal conspiracy but here, a plan to withhold evidence are admissible as evidence of the existence of the plan. I have clients who are in jail today based upon that very sort of testimony. To say it is inadmissible is wrong. To say you don't want to believe it? That's what Jim Jordan's really saying.
[Blitzer:] Devin Nunes, the top Republican on the House Intelligence Committee, he said this in his opening statement. I'll play the clip.
[Rep Devin Nunes:] After the spectacular implosion of their Russia hoax on July 24th, in which they spent years denouncing any Republican who ever shook hands with a Russian. Anyone familiar with the Democrats' scorched-earth war against President Trump would not be surprised to see all the typical signs that this is a carefully orchestrated media smear campaign.
[Blitzer:] So what do you think? You're shaking your head.
[Dean:] Not even close, not even close. What happened is, Trump forced this issue on us. As the as the Russia investigation was wrapping up, this man is plotting his next activity that is illegitimate. To get a foreign country to do the dirty work of opposition research in exchange for foreign aid is outrageous. This is Wolf, to me, this is so much more serious than Nixon's activities, it's more serious certainly more serious than Bill Clinton's activities. It's in the area of Iran-Contra, which was settled behind closed doors. But this is this is something that affects our national security.
[Blitzer:] More serious than Nixon, more serious than Bill Clinton?
[Rosenzweig:] Oh, certainly more serious than Bill Clinton, who's I mean, I worked on the Clinton campaign and I Clinton impeachment, and I still feel as though that impeachment was was well-founded. But whatever you think of that, it involved misconduct that arose at a personal level, not the misuse of presidential authority for personal gain. And I have to say as well, that buried in yesterday's news was the was the Roger Stone trial and Rick Gates. And so anybody who actually goes and reads that testimony knows that Mr. Nunes' characterization of what happened between the Trump campaign and Russia is false. There was direct testimony there of what amounts to collusion. It may very well not be prosecutable criminally, but there's no doubt at all that this is part and parcel of the president's playbook, to see Russia, to seek foreign influence on American electoral campaigns.
[Blitzer:] The tone of the hearing so far, what do you think?
[Dean:] What happens is, they're faster with less information than historically. When I say "faster," events are occurring. Maybe it's social media, maybe it's more media today than there were with three or four networks in the past. But less information in the fact that Clinton, for example, turned over information; Nixon actually turned over more information; Andrew Johnson turned over more information. So this in this White House, they've just closed the door. And but for the foreign service having a spine and coming forward, we wouldn't know what was going on.
[Blitzer:] John Dean, Paul Rosenzweig, guys, thanks very much for coming in. Still to come, the Trump organization is now courting new investors for its hotel here in Washington, D.C. But the hotel's biggest draw for foreign government-related business? That's a subject that presents potentially a serious conflict of interest for the president. We have an exclusive CNN report, that's coming up.