[Sen. Kevin Cramer:] Donald Trump has been exactly covert about this. There's great integrity in his authenticity, which is something people in the heartland appreciate about him. So he has the discussions and wide open. I think he talks, he thinks out loud, he expresses whatever is on his mind. And people can take that and twist it any way they want to.
[Bolduan:] That was North Dakota Republican Senator Kevin Cramer's response when Jake Tapper asked if it is appropriate for a politician to use his position in foreign policy to push a foreign leader to investigate a political rival. The fact that the president said it out loud seems to make it OK. That is now the latest defense from one of the president's most ardent supporters on Capitol Hill. Joining me is former Republican governor of Ohio, John Kasich. He's a CNN senior political commentator. And he's the author of a new book out this week, called, "It's Up to Us, 10 Little Ways We Can Bring About Big Change." We're going to get to the book.
[John Kasich, Cnn Senior Political Commentator:] "Integrity in his authenticity." I have never heard wow. You have to be up late at night to figure that one out. How about having a little bit of couth? How about not being rude?
[Bolduan:] This is the latest defense that I mean, I was listing out this morning kind of like now if you say it out loud it's OK. To your Republican colleagues, what do you say to them in this moment? With so many of them most of them
[Kasich:] I'll tell you. How would you feel if your kids were that way? No, I'm serous. You know, people say
[Bolduan:] We have a timeout chair on the ready.
[Kasich:] I think most people would say, no, that's not the way to behave. You just don't go blurting something out. In terms of this phone call, that's outrageous. Here's what's amazing to me, Kate. I was in politics a long time. I understand the push and the pull. But why wouldn't they say the call was wrong? I mean, I don't
[Bolduan:] Stop reading my mind. Where is the line? Why isn't why have they not found a middle ground? I don't know if it's a middle ground. That it is wrong, it is not impeachable. I don't know why I haven't seen Republicans saying this.
[Kasich:] It's I don't understand it. Because it's simple to say this was wrong. Period. You didn't say, you should have an impeachment inquiry which, I think they should call for.
[Bolduan:] Right.
[Kasich:] You're not taking a position on impeachment. You're just saying, when a president of the United States calls a foreign leader and tries to get him to dig up dirt on their political opponent, it's just wrong. What do you have to do? You can't parse that. It's just wrong.
[Bolduan:] They apparently are trying. Let me play one more this is probably the most awkward example of Republicans facing these questions.
[Kasich:] All right.
[Bolduan:] Here's Cory Gardner in Colorado last week. Listen to this.
[Unidentified Reporter:] But the question is, is it appropriate for a president
[Sen. Cory Gardner:] Look, we are going to have an investigation and it's a non-partisan investigation.
[Gardner:] It's an answer you get from a very serious investigation.
[Scott Mclean, Cnn Correspondent:] Would you be OK if it was a Democrat asking a foreign government
[Gardner:] a jump to a very partisan, partisan serious use of a tool in the Constitution. This is about an investigation taking place in the Senate Intelligence Committee. Where it should be.
[Mclean:] But you're not answering the question. We want to hear from you. You're a smart guy. You know
[Gardner:] This is about politics in the moment and that's why they're trying to do this now. The American people will have a choice.
[Bolduan:] He was asked seven times.
[Kasich:] It's the politics of survival. He's really at risk in his Senate race.
[Bolduan:] He really is.
[Kasich:] And John Hickenlooper will probably be his opponent and John doesn't stumble around like that. It's all about survival. He doesn't want to make his base mad. And, you know, Kate
[Bolduan:] Is that really survival though? I mean
[Kasich:] I think that's what he considers it. Here's the thing. When you're in, you have to look back and say, how did I do when I was in. I mean, if you don't have a good answer to that, what were you doing there? I would like to think people whether Republicans, Democrats, Independents, it doesn't matter when you had your hands on the wheel and you were driving the car, did you drive it in the right direction? Did you sell out your principles because you thought you were going to get somewhere? And I'm not trying to be wholly roller. All of us are hypocrites at times.
[Bolduan:] This really gets to one of the central themes of your book, which, to me, this is like all of the conversations that you and I have camera and off.
[Kasich:] Yes.
[Bolduan:] We end up here, which is, all great big change starts from the bottom up. Where did the motivation for this come for in this moment?
[Kasich:] It didn't come from what's happening. Except for this. People are frustrated, like, I don't know what to do, I'm wringing my hands. What's going to happen with Trump? What is going to happen with Congress. I'm like, wait a minute. It's like this one obit writer said in this book, if the secretary of state or your trash man went on vacation, who would you miss the most? Not the secretary of state. I want this is a manual for how people can have power, how they can be in charge of their lives, of how they can make a difference. Look, you're an Indiana girl. You understand that culture.
[Bolduan:] Yes, but I also read this and I thought, this is John Kasich giving up on Washington completely. Is that what this is?
[Kasich:] I know this. If people want change, it has to come from them to the top. The change is rarely going to come from the top to the bottom. Civil rights? People demanded it. Women's suffrage. Look how long it took. People demanded it. Ending the Vietnam War, people demanded it. So the key to this book is live a life bigger than yourself. And it's a handbook for personal power. And there are so many stories that can give people hope as to what they can do in simple and little ways.
[Bolduan:] As you said when you were coming on, this book isn't about politics. It is in red, white and blue. And it's up to us. I'll say, this does sound like a very good campaign slogan. I'm just saying that.
[Kasich:] It's not, Kate. You know that. We've talked so many times about what really matters in this country. And people have certain gifts. They need to use them. They can find them. You know, Martin Luther King said, if you can't do big things, do little things in a big way. Kate, this takes our country back.
[Bolduan:] Thank you. It's great to see you. Thanks for being here. Thanks
[Kasich:] It's so good to be on the set with you.
[Bolduan:] I know.
[Kasich:] You're the best.
[Bolduan:] Stop hiding from me. Even though that's where you should be right now because John Kasich. We'll be right back.