[Anderson Cooper, Cnn Anchor:] The wall should be called the wall, after all, and the House speaker will be begging for it. Those are the latest proclamations from the President as the clock continues to tick down to another potential shutdown or perhaps a state of emergency declaration if the President doesn't get the wall that he wants. And judging by what Speaker Pelosi said today, it doesn't seem like he will.
[Rep. Nancy Pelosi , California:] There's not going to be any wall money in the legislation.
[Cooper:] Well, that's pretty clear. The Speaker later went on to suggest that it she'd be open to more enhanced fencing, but the wall seems to be as much of a non-starter as ever.
[Donald Trump, President Of The United States:] And by the way, if you go to Tijuana and you take down that wall, you will have so many people coming into our country that Nancy Pelosi will be begging for a wall. She'll be begging for a wall. She will say, "Mr. President, please, please give us a wall." It will be very interesting. Some people have suggested let me take the wall along California. Let's move it to Arizona. Let's move it to Texas. And you know, it would be a very interesting statement.
[Cooper:] Now he is not only moving the goalpost, he is maybe moving the whole wall. The President was asked if he would accept the other kinds of physical barriers that the speaker suggested she'd be open to.
[Trump:] No, because if there is no wall, it doesn't work. She is just playing games.
[Cooper:] Right, doesn't work politically if there is no wall. Keeping them honest, and we've said this before, there is a debate to be had about immigration policy, there's no doubt about that. But when it comes to accusations of playing games, the President doesn't exactly come from a non-hypocritical place, to put it nicely. Just today, he was back to his word games about whether to call the wall the wall. He typed into the Twitter machine, "Let's just call them walls from now on and stop playing political games. A wall is a wall." Well, not only did the President invent this game, he wrote all the rules, he broke them, he changed them, he rewrote them and then he changed them again. A wall is a wall, he says, but he didn't always seem to think so.
[Trump:] We're going to build a wall and it's going to be impenetrable. It will be a real wall. It's not a fence, it's a wall. You just misreported it. There could be some fencing. You go back to 2006, they all approved essentially a wall, a very powerful fence, which is pretty much the same thing. A wall or a slat fence, or whatever you want to call it. A wall, a fence, whatever they'd like to call it, I'll call it whatever they want, but it's all the same thing. You could call it a steel fence, this wall or fence or anything the Democrats need to call it. They can name it whatever. They can name it peaches. I don't care what they name it.
[Cooper:] They can name it peaches. Call it whatever you want. But, now, a wall is a wall, all caps, exclamation point. Keeping them honest, the President and his supporters seem to be the only ones who are hung up on what to call this thing that doesn't even exist. When Kellyanne Conway was asked about a poll showing that vast majority of Americans didn't think a wall was worth the shutdown, she seemed to think it was very important to use the proper words, whatever those are.
[Abby Phillip, Cnn White House Correspondent:] Kellyanne, there's a new poll out showing that 71 percent of American
[Kellyanne Conway, Donald Trump Aide:] Do you have the poll? Do you have a poll question?
[Phillip:] So, it's on
[Cbs. Conway:] Yes, right, but I just want to see the question.
[Phillip:] The question was, is the wall worth the government shutdown?
[Conway:] And so why would that be the question?
[Phillip:] I'm wondering what is the President
[Conway:] No, I'm asking you why are you still saying the wall when the President has said I'm asking why you in the polling questions respect there is still saying wall when the President said you can call it whatever you want. Call it steel, slat, barriers, whatever.
[Phillip:] He calls it a wall himself, Kellyanne.
[Cooper:] So, OK. So there she is saying, "Why are you calling it a wall?" He is calling it a wall. He campaigned on it. It's always been a wall. The only thing that is demonstrably changed is the other part of his promise about who is going to pay for it.
[Trump:] Who's going to pay for the wall?
[Unidentified Speakers:] Mexico.
[Trump:] Who's going to pay for the wall?
[Unidentified Speakers:] Mexico.
[Trump:] Who?
[Unidentified Speakers:] Mexico.
[Cooper:] The conversation has moved from whether Mexico is going to pay for it, which it never was, to whether a wall is actually a wall, and the only person responsible for that is the President. As for where this leaves us and the federal workers who may be facing another shutdown in just over two weeks, it is not looking great.
[Trump:] On February 15th, the committee will come back. And if they don't have a wall, I don't even want to waste my time reading what they have, because it's a waste of time.
[Cooper:] A waste of time, says the President. Joining me now is Congressman Henry Cuellar, Democrat from Texas, a member of the group of lawmakers trying the hash out a deal. Congressman, thanks for being with us. So the President saying today
[Rep. Henry Cuellar , Texas:] Thank you so much.
[Cooper:] the bipartisan panel is no closer to a deal now than when it started. As a member of that panel, is he right?
[Cuellar:] Look, without due respect to the President, we're just focusing on what we can do as appropriators Senate, House, Democrats, Republicans, and I feel optimistic that if there is no outside interference by the White House, we can work this out. I feel very confident that we can work it out.
[Cooper:] So, is there any discussion about a wall or whatever you call it, you know, increased fencing, supplemental fencing, additional fencing in some areas that are strategic points that may need it?
[Cuellar:] Well, right now where we're focusing is trying to answer two questions. When you look at the question, how do we stop drugs from coming in, keep in mind that most drugs according to DEA, Homeland, will come through ports of entry. So in our ports, what we need to do is make sure, make sure that we have the right number of K-9s, CBP officers, those are the men and women in blue, and have the latest X-ray technology, the sea portals and things that you can have an 18-wheelers go by and still provide the X-ray to see what's in there. So we got to be smart on how we secure the border. And also, keep in mind that just think it was today, the largest amount of fentanyl that has been captured in the U.S. history was done at a port of entry. And if you listen to the latest drug case in New York, what are the bad guys saying? They use ports of entry. They will go ahead and use submarines or speed boats in the water. So we have to be smart on how we address drugs. And keep in mind, one last point, if you want to stop people, keep in mind that in the year 2000, border patrol stopped 1.6 million individuals, apprehended. Last year it was about 303,000 individuals, a smaller amount. And the larger amount, 67 percent of the people are not supposed to be here are visa overstays. And by the way, most of those visa overstays are Canadians.
[Cooper:] Right. In the past, though, Democrats have supported some fencing, some fortified fencing. And there is, you know, there are many areas where there is there are steel slats. There are various kinds of fencing. Would you be supportive of any kind of agreement that increases the length of fencing in some areas if border protection says that would help us in this particular region? Not talking about a wall from sea to shining sea, but just increased fencing of an extra 100 miles, 200 miles of fencing, is that something that you would support?
[Cuellar:] Well, you know, again, first thing I want to do is make sure that we have the technology, the right number of personnel. Border patrol is losing more men and women than they're actually hiring in border patrol. We've got to make sure that we provide security underground because of tunnels, tunnels. Keep in mind that there has been what, 290 tunnels that they discovered going in the under the walls or fences, should I say, for a long time. And then of course sea, because of the coast guard has to play a role. And then air. We need air stats. We need drones. We need helicopters and airplanes.
[Cooper:] But even just to get a deal, as a compromise, would you consider additional fencing?
[Cuellar:] Well, again, we got to look at what we have right now. Right now we have 654 miles of fencing. 300 of those miles are vehicle barriers. And if you're familiar with the vehicle barriers, they're basically to stop cars. They don't stop people. You can crawl under them or just jump over. So we have to look at what's out there. Now, keep in mind that in the year 2000 2008, Senator Cornyn and myself and a Democratic county judge, we came up with a compromise for what we called a levied wall, which is basically there is flooding down there by the river in the South Texas area. We got a dirt mound and we put a cement barrier on it and it became a flood control and at the same time border security. So we can get creative. What we don't want is Washington to get a red crayon and tell us what we need to put any sort of barriers if we even get to that part.
[Cooper:] All right, Congressman Henry Cuellar, appreciate your time. Thank you. Joining us now, "USA Today" columnist Kirsten Powers and former Trump campaign aide Michael Caputo. Kirsten, I mean, is the President right to a certain degree here? Are Democrats playing political games with the word "wall"?
[Kirsten Powers, Cnn Political Analyst:] Well, I mean, he's also changed his different definitions of what a wall is and what a fence is. And I think Nancy Pelosi said today, like he can call it whatever he wants, you know. You know, they are interested in trying to beef up security, particularly at ports of entry because that is where, you know, most of the most of the problems occur, frankly, and it's the way most people come into the country. Can they give money for a little more fencing? Sure, but that's not really what this was all held up over, right? This was held up over his insistence on having a wall. Not having a fence, on having a wall there never would have been a shutdown if he just wanted a little fencing.
[Cooper:] Michael, for the President to say as he did today that this isn't about votes, it isn't about elections. I mean, that's not true. Obviously, this was a central part of his campaign. It's fulfilling a campaign promise ahead of 2020, is it not?
[Michael Caputo, Former Trump Campaign Aide:] Well, I think it's one of his key campaign promises, just like improving the economy, driving down the unemployment rate, you know, freeing up business by deregulating, so many eliminating so many of the regulations laid on business by the Obama administration. It was a key campaign promise, of course, and I think because it was so central to his victorious campaign, I think the Democrats have decided it's a line that they're not going to cross. And it's going to become an election issue for sure in 2020. If the wall is being built or it's built by then, it will be a victory for the President. If it isn't, then it will be a point of contention between him and the Democratic nominee. But the fact of the matter is the President can build this wall with or without Nancy Pelosi's approval through a state of emergency or even other ways. And I think he is intent on doing that.
[Cooper:] Kirsten, I mean, wouldn't it I mean, it seems like obviously that there's going to be some sort of a compromise between Democrats and Republicans, whether the President goes along with it. It seems like one obvious compromise is some sort of increased fencing in some key strategic areas and whether it's called a wall or, you know, steel slat fencing, or whatever they want to call it. Isn't that sort of the obvious compromise, that the Democrats can say it's not a wall, and the President can say, you know, it's a wall.
[Powers:] Yes. I mean, I have said before that I think they have to give him an out. They have to give you know, when you are negotiating with somebody, that you have to try to get to yes. And I know that makes a lot of people angry, because that's not really how he negotiates for the most part. But if it's something that is first of all not insanely expensive the way the wall is, and the reason that the Democrats oppose it is because it's just not a good idea, and it's not necessary. And we've gone through many times all the different reasons that this is not what the United States needs if we want to deal with the problems at the border. So, I think that was just a non-starter. But are there other things that they can agree on? Yes. And I think that they like I said, they want increased security at the border, they have agreed to that. And so that is giving him something. They're just not giving him the wall because they don't think it's a good idea, and he said Mexico is going to pay for it. So it's just is more of this crazy making that somehow it's the Democrats' fault that he doesn't have funding for the wall that he said he was going to get the funding from Mexico for.
[Cooper:] Michael, what about that?
[Caputo:] Well, I think I mean, I agree, Kirsten is right in a lot of ways. But at the same time, you know, today the Democrats laid out their plan for border security. And in that plan, they froze the number of border patrol officers. If they're going to go ahead and beef up security at the ports of entry, they're going to need a lot more border patrol officers. And the idea that the vast majority of border patrol officers support a wall, I think that's driving what the President wants to do. But also, by the way, the majority of border patrol officers support increasing the number of border patrol officers. Democrats really got to get a handle on what border security really means to them.
[Cooper:] Michael Caputo, Kirsten Powers, thank you. Up next, we're going to speak with Senator Jeff Merkley who said that Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen lied in congressional testimony about family separation of illegal immigrants. The senator is asking the FBI to investigate. I'll talk to him about that.