[Costello:] As international pressure grows on Vladimir Putin, Secretary of State John Kerry is adding his voice to calls for a more transparent and thorough investigation into the crash of Malaysian Airlines Flight 17.
[John Kerry, Secretary Of State:] This is a very, very critical moment for Russia to step up, publicly, and join in the effort in order to make sure there is a full-fledged investigation, that the investigators and people who are coming to help from outside, the ICAO, the FBI, the National Transportation Safety Board. We're sending people over. Others are sending people. Experts who have an ability to be able to put these facts together so no one will have doubt, no fingers will be pointed about conspiracies, about ideology and politics governing this.
[Costello:] No one can get to the crash site as of yet because of fighting in eastern Ukraine. That's the big problem. Senator Chris Murphy says that if the plane crash in Ukraine, quote, "doesn't wake up our European allies, it's hard to imagine what will." Murphy, a Democrat from Connecticut, joins me now. Good morning, sir.
[Sen. Chris Murphy , Connecticut:] Good morning.
[Costello:] I don't know if you heard Barbara Starr's report, but she says U.S. intelligence officers are trying to determine if Russian personnel were actually on the scene when that missile was fired. If that's the case, is there any way Putin can wiggle out?
[Murphy:] Well, I'm not sure that Putin can wiggle out regardless of whether or not Russia directed this specific missile strike. The fact is, is that we have relative complete confidence that that missile system was provided by the Russians. And if not for the Russian decision to essentially run, arm, equip and administer this rebellion in eastern Ukraine, you would have never had this plane shot down in the first place. So I'm not even sure that it really matters in the final analysis, whether there was a Russian soldier sitting next to the piece of equipment when the missile was fired. This is Russia's fault. And they could allow for access to that crash site today because that separatist group cannot function, cannot exist without Russian support and control.
[Costello:] EU foreign ministers could meet as soon as tomorrow to finalize a new round of sanctions against Russia, but there are reports leaders are split on how tough those sanctions should be. In your mind, what sanctions need to be put into place?
[Murphy:] Well, it's hard for me to imagine why Europe would still be split on this question. If Europe had any doubt whether this conflict could hit them, they now know. This might not be the end of the misery for the region at large due to this conflict. So let's just take the sanctions that the United States imposed last week. We imposed sanctions on the two biggest Russian energy banks. But they aren't as effective as they should be if Europe doesn't join us because if these big Russian energy companies can't get financing from American banks, they can just go to European banks. So let's start there. Let's make a decision that the United States and Europe are going to cut off financing for Russian energy companies. That would certainly make Putin start to think twice about whether he's going to continue to fund this conflict in eastern Ukraine.
[Costello:] Some experts say, though, if you put if you put really, really tough sanctions on Russia, it will back Putin into a corner and he'll act in a more aggressive way. In fact, that will force him to fight back. Maybe diplomacy might be better at this point?
[Murphy:] I think Vladimir Putin understands strength. I think there's plenty of room for diplomacy. But right now he is continuing his support of the separatist group in eastern Ukraine because he really doesn't think that he's going to actually see any consequences. We've got to show him that there are consequences. And we're at the right moment to do that. The Russian economy is weak. They're in recession. There's a huge capital flight of billions of dollars coming out of the country. If you can tighten the noose around their economy, Putin will blink here. I think that that's what history has ultimately shown that you've got to meet Putin's aggression with similar strength and response.
[Costello:] And he seems to be kind of putting himself in the corner because Putin did come out and finally say something today. He said, quote, and this is just part of what he said, he said, "no one should have the right to use this tragedy to achieve selfish political objectives. Such events should not divide, but unite people." Putin went on to say, "crash investigators should be granted full access to the site," but, of course, as you know, senator, talk is one thing and action is another. What does the United States or other countries need to do to make sure that Putin stands by his word and opens this crash site to investigators and allow those victims to come home?
[Murphy:] Well, this is really a question for Europe, right? I mean, they can make this demand that he open the crash site, but then they've got to be proposed to show him that there are consequences if he does not. The crash site will open to international investigators if Putin decides it. The separatists are run by the Russian military. That's the simple truth. And so if by tomorrow the crash site isn't open to international investigators, then Europe should hand down a crippling round of sanctions. That will be the means of accountability here. And of course, it's ridiculous for him to say that someone is trying to move a political agenda because of this crash. Our agenda, Europe's agenda is simply to end the bloodshed in eastern Ukraine and allow for the duly elected government out of Kiev to be able to administer a country which by international law is theirs to administer.
[Costello:] Senator Chris Murphy of Connecticut, thanks for being with me. I appreciate it.
[Murphy:] Thanks, Carol.
[Costello:] I'll be right back.