[Jane Lynch, Actress:] When I was a little girl, I developed early. By the time I was 14 I had this body you're looking at. Can you imagine that?
[Steve Carell, Comedian:] I don't want to, no.
[Lynch:] Well, needless to say, lot of male attention.
[Carell:] Like that. Yes.
[Lynch:] Especially from our Guatemalan gardener, Javier.
[Morgan:] Jane Lynch stealing the show in "The 40-Year-Old Virgin" and as all America knows she's also the hilarious Sue Sylvester in "Glee." But if that's all you know about her then you need to watch this interview, because I'm going to get the real secrets out of Jane Lynch because she's got a book out, it's a paperback version of the other great
[Lynch:] Yes.
[Morgan:] Because we invited you against all my better judgment to come and replace me in a week off I had earlier and you were waringly good. So I needed to send you straight back.
[Lynch:] Well, I'm in my place.
[Morgan:] Where you belong to the guest chair.
[Lynch:] I'm in the yes. Indeed. And thank you very having me. I so appreciate it.
[Morgan:] My staff said you behaved like an impossible diva.
[Lynch:] Yes.
[Morgan:] Nightmare from start to finish.
[Lynch:] Yes.
[Morgan:] Ring familiar?
[Lynch:] It's my style, yes. It is. And thank you for matching your tie to my book.
[Morgan:] Well, I thought so. I thought it was going to be a purple gleeful fest.
[Lynch:] Yes.
[Morgan:] And I thought they're actually our set is kind of gleeful.
[Lynch:] Yes, it is. A lot of the primary colors. I love your set. I think it's the best talk show set on television.
[Morgan:] I like that. Is that a compliment?
[Lynch:] It is a compliment, yes.
[Morgan:] Doesn't mean I'm any good, it just means the set is wonderful.
[Lynch:] No, I think you're very good.
[Morgan:] Tell me about the big story at the moment that's very relevant to your life, I think. The whole issue about gay marriage.
[Lynch:] Right.
[Morgan:] President Obama last week finally coming out to endorse same- sex marriage. Almost as significantly I felt today Jay-Z has come out and done the same thing. To an audience that perhaps wouldn't be overly receptive to that, his fan base. What do you think of what's going on with this whole issue right now?
[Lynch:] Well, this is the first time I've taken it personally. I have I kind of view it as the issue. And when my president stood up and said that he believes that I and my family should have the same rights, it blew me away.
[Morgan:] Where were you when you knew he'd done it?
[Lynch:] I was in the car and Laura, my wife, texted me. She said he did it. He supported gay marriage. And I said, wow. It was pretty immediate then it was it was a visceral thing. And
[Morgan:] Emotional?
[Lynch:] Yes, it was very emotional. It was an emotional moment. Like I said before I hadn't taken it so personally but this was you know, nothing's going to happen because he said this, really. I mean most politics are calculus anyway. But just the fact that he said it and there was a risk in his saying it and I don't know. It's just it's just nice to hear that the guy who's sitting in the big chair in the big White House believes supports me and my family.
[Morgan:] There are various critics of this. There are the let's be honest, the homophobes out there who just don't want under any circumstances they're bigoted in the way they talk about it. Then there are the critics that I have sympathy with. You know I was born a Catholic like you. I understand people who have strong religious beliefs and have been taught a certain way about their religious beliefs, that they feel uneasy. And the president himself said he'd been on a bit of a journey about this. What do you say? As somebody who came from a Catholic family we'll get to your own experience. But what do you say to the people who aren't bigots but who have simply been brought up to believe in a religious matter this is fundamentally not what the bible says is right?
[Lynch:] Well, I don't I personally don't look to the bible as an authority document. It's a flawed document and it's also an inspired beautiful document. I think that if your dogma, and I call it dogma if it's getting in the way of the golden rule, which is to others as you would like to be treated. And I think that when you get to know more gay people and you're sitting in the presence of them and you realize there's really if there's anything wrong with me, it has nothing to do with my orientation. I have a lot of flaws but being gay isn't one of them. It isn't a flaw. It's just
[Morgan:] How much of bigotry how much of bigotry is basically ignorance, do you think?
[Lynch:] Well, there's a lot of smart people who are bigoted. But you can be really smart and ignorant in some areas and you know, I think that when you hang on to, like, a religious belief or a dogma, and you start dividing people and separating people because of that dogma, I think it's just a waste of time. And it doesn't help anybody.
[Morgan:] A lot of people said, why does it matter so much to you to have the same rights with marriage as a straight couple? What would you say to people who say that?
[Lynch:] Well, why shouldn't I, is I would ask the question back to them and say, why should I be different? I used to not care about marriage until I fell in love and wanted to get married. I used to say, oh, that's for straight people. And also, I had I had my own internal internalized homophobia, which said that, you know, like that's for that's for the straight people, it's not for the likes of me. And I have a really strong wife who says, no, it's for us, too. And we have a child. And if we're going to enter into this with a child, I want a piece of paper. And I that made sense to me.
[Morgan:] In the book, you've talked very movingly about your life. I was fascinated by it, because one of the arguments I've had repeatedly about this issue we've discussed it a lot on the show and I have strong feelings about it, very in line with what you've been saying, was I accept there are various levels of tolerance I have for the critics and for the reasons I might discuss with you.
[Lynch:] Right.
[Morgan:] I think that what was fascinating to me was you were about 12 years old when you began to realize that you were different and that you were probably gay. Tell me about that emotional experience for a young woman at that age, a young girl, really.
[Lynch:] The first time I heard the word gay and what it meant, were two of my friends, they were twins, and they were talking about how they go to South Florida and sometimes guys walk on the beach holding hands and they're gay. She said they're gay together. And I immediately my stomach dropped. And I thought to myself, I have that. I have the girl version of that. And I felt like I was, you know, given the diagnosis of a disease. And then I go on to find that, indeed, in psychiatric manuals, it at that time, it was considered a mental and emotional affliction. And, you know, that made me feel different, broken. I didn't know anybody
[Morgan:] Like you were sick?
[Lynch:] Yes, like I was sick. And I couldn't tell anybody, either, because there was so much shame around it. I didn't know anybody else who was gay this is all through high school, too, and I'm sure at my high school there's a lot of people who were gay but, you know, nobody talked about it. And no one would admit to it. So I you know, I felt completely alone in it. So I really understand kids who don't live in Los Angeles or Chicago or New York, who feel so alone and in their own shame and can't say anything about it. I really feel for them.
[Morgan:] And the moment that it all came to you with your parents
[Lynch:] Yes.
[Morgan:] you were in your early 20s?
[Lynch:] Thirties.
[Morgan:] Your 30s?
[Lynch:] I was in my 32 when I sent my parents a letter.
[Morgan:] So you've waited a long time?
[Lynch:] I waited a long time, yes.
[Morgan:] Did they know?
[Lynch:] No. Well, here's the deal. My mom said that when I sent the letter, my mom read it out loud to my dad. And my dad and said Janie's gay. And he said, is that bad? And she said, well, of course not. And then my parents were very, very close and they loved each other very much. And they never talked about this, but they both said, later on, you know, after the smoke cleared, that they both suspected, but they never talked about it. They were afraid for me. They were afraid for the choices I would have, the life I would have to live and, you know, one of the things I say in the book is that be living a normal life was like up there with, you know, food and shelter for my mother. I mean you want to live a normal a normal life like when I found out I was deaf in one ear and I heard a whispering to the doctor, will she lead a normal life? And so I always had that in my mind. And I think they're worried about it.
[Morgan:] Because like it's the one thing that parents of that generation would instinctively worry about is well, my daughter can never get married or have children.
[Lynch:] Or have children, right.
[Morgan:] You now have both?
[Lynch:] I have both, yes.
[Morgan:] So that is another great reason, I believe, this debate is so important.
[Lynch:] Yes.
[Morgan:] It removes that fear.
[Lynch:] Right.
[Morgan:] From parents' lives.
[Lynch:] Yes.
[Morgan:] They don't have to concern themselves about their child forever being deprived.
[Lynch:] Right.
[Morgan:] Of what they see as a natural state of affairs.
[Lynch:] Exactly. But the only who wants their kid to grow up in a world where they are not accepted for who they are? And that's a horrible thing to be worried about for your kids. And I think that that was the biggest thing for my parents, you know, was was when they finally realized that they were afraid for me. But at this point, I was 32 years old and I was living a wonderful life. And I had a nice little career going. So they so worried about it. But had it come out when I was 18, a different story.
[Morgan:] Let's take a short break. I want to come back and talk directly obviously
[Lynch:] I hope so.
[Morgan:] about the best TV show which is only one of my all-time favorite movies.
[Lynch:] Good.
[Morgan:] I loved that, though.
[Lynch:] Oh good.
[Morgan:] It just just brilliantly done.
[Lynch:] Yes, dark. Good. All you saw are the darks.
[Morgan:] My god.
[Lynch:] You got the underjohns.
[Morgan:] Love the dark side.
[Lynch:] Becky, commercials aren't; real life. Advertisers are manipulative alcoholic who use images to play in on our emotions. Haven't you seen "Man Med"?
[Lauren Potter, "becky Jackson", Glee:] No.
[Lynch:] Neither have I. Becky, let's be realistic. You just didn't have the books. For starters your poster send a bit of a mixed message.
[Potter:] But my paintbrush
[Lynch:] And second, and I mean this as a compliment. You're a bitch, Becky.
[Morgan:] Jane Lynch in her Emmy and Golden Globe-winning role on "Glee." You've got the best lines on television.
[Lynch:] Thank you. I am so lucky.
[Morgan:] I mean seriously, you lucked out with this role.
[Lynch:] Ian Brennan, thank you so much. Ryan Murphy, thank you so much.
[Morgan:] Just brilliant lines. That was a classic.
[Lynch:] Yes. Good stuff.
[Morgan:] So you laugh at the role?
[Lynch:] I do. I adore it. I love getting the script every week. Sometimes I'm not in the script and I'm, bereft. I love it. I adore it. And Ian Brennan is just the best writer in the world.
[Morgan:] Now, many Americans look at you and they think of "Glee." I look at you and I think "Best in Show." Which is one of my top four movies ever. I've told you in the break about my others. But I often watch "Best in Show" just to make myself laugh. It brings a because it's a sort of dark comedy
[Lynch:] Yes.
[Morgan:] It's weird. It's hilarious. But it's just a great movie, isn't it?
[Lynch:] Yes. Oh, I think it is. It's really it's a well made comedy. And it's spontaneous. You know, we don't have any script. I think he Christopher Guest just hit on it with the with his formula. I think it all just really came together in that movie.
[Morgan:] How do you think, looking back, how lucky were you that fame came to you quite late?
[Lynch:] Late, yes. I mean
[Morgan:] Because I was the problem with fame is that when it hits you at 21. And you certainly have all the money you made.
[Lynch:] Right.
[Morgan:] All the drugs available, all the booze, all the rest of it, and you're only 21.
[Lynch:] Right.
[Morgan:] Very different if you
[Lynch:] When you have all the drugs you want when you're 51? Yes.
[Morgan:] Well, I know you went through a few but not
[Lynch:] No, no.
[Morgan:] And I think there is a difference.
[Lynch:] Yes. There sure is.
[Morgan:] Well, what do you think?
[Lynch:] If I had gotten famous at 21 or 31, even I guess I was starting to get famous at 41 I would have been blown by this winds of public opinion. If Twitter and Facebook and the Internet were around, I would probably be scouring it for people's opinions about me. And I would be lifted when they love me and I would be absolutely destroyed if they didn't love me. And you know, that doesn't happen for me now.
[Morgan:] Do you not read any of that stuff?
[Lynch:] Every once in awhile every once in a while I'll look at it. But I'm not affected by it. But, yeah, I kind of know who I am at the end of the day. I think when I was younger, I did not.
[Morgan:] You have been sober how long now?
[Lynch:] Twenty years.
[Morgan:] Do you ever miss it?
[Lynch:] Not at all.
[Morgan:] partying, drinking?
[Lynch:] No. I didn't like partying when I was partying. I'm not a party person, but I was a drinking person. I liked that one on one in a tavern. I'm from the south side of Chicago and I loved going to the neighborhood tavern and getting loaded.
[Morgan:] You addicted, you said. It was more you just felt you were drinking too much.
[Lynch:] I was addicted. No, I was addicted. I'm still addicted. I'm drinking coffee right now. I drink coffee all day long. I'm an addictive person. I know that about myself. And that's why I can't have a glass of wine. And that's why I can't pick up a cigarette. And every once in awhile I do, and I'm always sorry, because it kind of wakes up the monster.
[Morgan:] Is it incredibly hard? Is it a constant battle?
[Lynch:] No, not at all. I've been sober now longer than I drank. It's a habit. It's a habit. Just like drinking was a habit, being sober is a habit. I love being sober. I had debilitating hangovers. And I remember that. We had a part at our house on Saturday and we had a bartender. And he made these kick butt drinks and everybody got loaded. And everybody had horrible hangovers the next day. And I was like I remember that. I completely remember being poisoned from booze. And I don't need that anymore. But it's not hard, no, not at all.
[Morgan:] What do you think of fame?
[Lynch:] What do I think of fame? That's a very good question and it's a big question. But I'll try to answer it very simply. I think that people project things on to other people. Sometimes it makes them feel good to do that. And sometimes it makes them feel bad, and so they want to knock you down. So I take fame with a grain of salt. I love it when people come up to me because they love the show. They love "Glee." I love it when it makes a 14-year-old girl feel really good about herself or a gay kid in Idaho feel really good about himself.
[Morgan:] Does all this make up for the loss of anonymity?
[Lynch:] You know, I'm still pretty anonymous. I mean, I when I walk into a restaurant, people will know who I am. But I don't have that stalking thing that a lot of celebrities have. I live pretty nicely. I still go out and do my errands. I'm not that famous.
[Morgan:] You're keen on your politics. There's an election coming.
[Lynch:] Yes.
[Morgan:] What is your view of the way the battle has been fought so far?
[Lynch:] It's just such a shame we have this super PAC thing, I could almost cry. It was an awful, awful decision by the Supreme Court.
[Morgan:] Were you disappointed in President Obama, having said he was totally against it then
[Lynch:] He has to play the game.
[Morgan:] Does he have to?
[Lynch:] Yes. He does. He does.
[Morgan:] I'm not convinced.
[Lynch:] You're not convinced. Tell me why.
[Morgan:] I just wonder if President Obama stood back and said, I'm not playing this game you can spend hundreds of millions billions if you want, chucking nonsense at me on television. I'm telling the American people, I will not play that game. I think he would get a lot of respect for that.
[Lynch:] I think he's maybe the one politician in history who may have the power to do that. I guess I just don't have as much faith in the electorate to not buy into the terrible ads that would be run.
[Morgan:] Scale of one to 100, how has he done, do you think, if you were being his teacher? I my goodness. I don't know to grade him. I've not sat in the Oval Office. I do not know what he has to deal with on a daily basis. I will say this. I think he's wicked smart. I think he's sane. And I think he definitely wants what's best for the country. I think he probably makes mistakes. So and I know he's done some great things. I have great faith in him. But I think our system is deeply flawed and deeply broken. You know, he's kind of presiding over a sad state of affairs, I guess. Terribly depressing way to end an interview with somebody from "Glee." But you know what, I think it works. It's been lovely to meet you. And come back here and sit in this chair again soon.
[Lynch:] I would love to.
[Morgan:] Everybody my staff absolutely loved you. I preferred was the word some of them used. So it was delightful to have you. And thank you for doing that. Lovely to meet you.
[Lynch:] Lovely to meet you.
[Morgan:] Jane Lynch. Coming up, my prime time exclusive with the man with the golden voice, Ted Williams. His darkest days as a homeless crack addict and how he got a second voice. It's an extraordinary interview.