[John Berman, Cnn Anchor:] New this morning, retired Marine Corps Gen. John Kelly, who was also President Trump's former chief of staff, is defending Gen. James Mattis after the former Defense secretary released a scorching critique of the president and his threat to use military force against protesters. Gen. Kelly joins a growing list of former military leaders breaking their silence in recent days. Joining me now is retired Army General and former American ambassador to NATO, Lt. Gen. Douglas Lute. He's now the president of Cambridge Global. General, thank you very much for being with us this morning. Let me just throw up on the screen the list of military leaders who have spoken out against the president in just the last few days Gen. James Mattis, Adm. Mike Mullen, Gen. Martin Dempsey, Adm. James Stavridis, Gen. John Allen. You know, Gen. Richard Myers said something critical yesterday. And, you, too, have been critical. And you told "The New York Times" that something basically changed this week. What changed?
[Lt. Gen. Douglas Lute , Former U.s. Ambassador To Nato, President, Cambridge Global:] Well, I think all the attention this week is clearly on the protests centered in and around the White House. And, in particular, the president's walk across Lafayette Park with his essentially, with his national security team in tow. And while that rightly gains a lot of attention this week, I think the basic point is that there's been a steady incremental change over the last 3 12 years as to how the president relates to the military. It has only sort of burst onto the public scene, most prominently this week2 years under President Trump.
[Berman:] I do get that it's an incremental process, as you say, that's underway but there does seem to have been a tipping point this week and you talk about that walk across the street. So why was that a tipping point?
[Lute:] Well, I think it's a combination of vignettes, right? So you have the president talking to the governors and recommending that they crack down violently and strongly against these largely peaceful protests, which the president refers to as being sponsored by terrorists when, in fact, they're sponsored by concerned and outraged American citizens. You have the secretary of Defense using inappropriate terms that the U.S. military could be used to dominate the battlespace, while that's those terms just don't apply to the U.S. military and the American citizens. You have the president then saying that he was placing in charge the chairman of the Joints Chiefs, Gen. Mark Milley. All of this then led to the walk across Lafayette Park, which had just been violently cleared of peaceful protesters so the president could have a photo op. So the combination of these vignettes, I think, makes this decidedly different and in my view, crosses the line in terms of appropriate presidential leadership, clearly but also, appropriate relationship between the president and the military.
[Berman:] OK, so what's at risk if that line is crossed?
[Lute:] Well, we've, of course, got a tradition in the military that's as old as the as old as the country and dates all the way back to the Constitution that the military will stay non-political or apolitical certainly, nonpartisan. And what you've seen under this president is a series of examples where he doesn't fundamentally understand that point that divide between partisan activity and the professional military. I mean, this started very early in the Trump administration with the signing ceremony of the of the immigration ban on Muslims in the Pentagon. You then have funding taken from the military and deferred to the border the building of the border wall. You've got the president intervening in military justice cases. It's his right to do so but he did so in a very sort of heavy-handed way. And now, you have the president visiting troops. Very common among all our 44 previous presidents but here, the president turns those troop visits into political rallies. So it's been this sort of steady drumbeat of erosion of norms, of civil-military relationships, and presidential leadership that I think culminated this week.
[Berman:] Yes, and I guess what I'm asking is what's the impact of that? And in this story the David Sanger piece in "The New York Times" in which you're quoted on the record there is a general officer quoted on background. Let me read you that quote. "One general officer speaking on the condition of anonymity to avoid punishment from his superiors, said on Thursday that he was hoping to make it through another day without having to cite his constitutional obligations to decline an illegal order. He said he would not be surprised if he faced such a dilemma in the coming weeks." That's a pretty startling statement from a general.
[Lute:] Well, it's something that senior officers live with all the time. You know, we day-to-day, general officers understand that they go to work facing perhaps facing that day this question of abiding by their oath of office, which is loyalty to the Constitution protect and defend the Constitution of the United States not loyalty to a particular partisan leader. So I think what brings this to light today and why that perhaps anonymous source was especially concerned is that the acts of this week and the acts of the previous 3 12 years suggest that that day where an officer might have to choose is perhaps is perhaps coming closer. Now, I will also tell you I have confidence in the professional military ethos that sort of secures America from an inappropriate use of military force on American soil. I have a lot of confidence in the officer corps and in the very deeply-held ethic that we protect and defend the Constitution. And, of course, the protests the demonstrations that are going on across America and frankly, beyond America, are being done in America based on constitutional rights.
[Berman:] Gen. Douglas Lute, thanks for being with us this morning. Appreciate your time, sir.
[Lute:] Thank you.
[Berman:] So, with so many of us at home watching these images play out on T.V., what's the effect on children? A helpful guide to navigate these difficult topics, next.