[Costello:] Forget who are you wearing. Last night's Oscars was all about what do you stand for, and we know where comedian Chris Rock stands. The host bringing the Oscars' so-white controversy center stage at the Academy Awards.
[Chris Rock, Host, The 88th Academy Award:] Well, I'm here at the Academy Awards. Otherwise known as the white people's choice awards. You realize if they nominated host, I wouldn't even get this job. So you all be watching Neil Patrick Harris right now. But here's the funny thing, this is this is the wildest, craziest Oscars to ever host because we got all this controversy. No black nominees. You know? And people are like, Chris, you should boycott. Chris, you should quit. You should quit. You know, how come it's only unemployed people who tell you to quit something, huh? The big question, why this Oscars? Why this Oscars? You know? It's the 88th Academy Awards. The 88th Academy Awards, which means this whole no black nominees thing has happened at least 71 other times. I'm sure there were no black nominees some of those years. Say '62 or '63, and black people did not protest. Why? Because we had real things to protest at the time. You know? We had real things to protest. Yes, we're too busy being raped and lynched to care about who won Best Cinematographer.
[Costello:] So let's talk about this now with cultural critic and writer Michaela Angela Davis and CNN's Stephanie Elam. Welcome to both of you. So, Stephanie, you're out there in California. You were on the red carpet last night. How did the actors react to Chris Rock's monologue?
[Stephanie Elam, Cnn Correspondent:] Well, I think a lot of it, when you look at it, Carol, it was expected. Right? We all knew that Chris Rock was going to go in, and he was in his element. It was almost a complex of perfect timing to have this Oscar so-white scandal happening and to have Chris Rock host it. Because you know he's going to go at it direct, he's going to go about it and call it as he sees it. And he didn't leave anything alone. He touched everybody. I mean, he went after Jada Pinkett-Smith. He also went after the Academy a bit. He also talked about the people who are in decision-making positions. So he did do all of that and I think people expected that. If you didn't expect that, you were coming from a different planet. So most everyone expected that. And I think because he did it with humor that it made people uncomfortable but happy that he was the one who was at the at the, you know, at the command center at that point to make it happen. Over all I think
[Costello:] Some people looked really, really uncomfortable.
[Elam:] Uncomfortable. Very uncomfortable. But a lot of people are uncomfortable talking about race in this country so as soon as they hear it they get frazzled, but I think for a lot of people, they were happy with the way it went. And overall, I've heard people say that they were happy with his performance.
[Costello:] I think the moment that I realized how uncomfortable some members of the audience were was was I ecumenically correct, Michaela was when Chris Rock singled out Leonardo DiCaprio, and there was a close-up shot of Leonardo DiCaprio's face, and Chris Rock was saying, you know what, Leonardo DiCaprio was offered great roles every year. Black actors are not.
[Michaela Angela Davis, Cultural Critic/writer:] Yes, you know, it's interesting. That opening clip, what was it was just an awkward night. It was Oscars so awkward. But you know, when he said when you said, what do you stand for at the same time Ava DuVernay and Ryan Coogler were raising money for poor people in Flint. Right? So some of Hollywood's biggest stars were somewhere else doing something that we were really standing for. So that was an awkward like the opening was awkward because a lot of black folks are thinking, should we be watching this or should we be watching Flint? And so everyone on different levels felt awkward and the lens of the whole night changed. And that's what activism does. Right? Because I was watching it, and the actresses seemed extra white and extra skinny and some of the black people seemed extra tokened. You know, I feel like, you know, they were wheeling black people out for gratuitous things. So it was a very weird night, but that's what change is. Right? I think people felt like they should be happy, but they also felt really uncomfortable, and some of it went too far, and some of it didn't go far enough.
[Costello:] Well, I want to I want to
[Davis:] It was weird.
[Costello:] I want to continue on that vent because you're right, Michaela, it went on the entire night.
[Davis:] The entire night. Yes.
[Costello:] They shad sketches. And after a while, it was like, please stop and let me enjoy this for just a moment. Stephanie, did you get any sense of that from people?
[Elam:] But yes, it did go a long time. But I think also if you have Chris Rock as your host, you should know that that is what you're going to get. That, to me, is not a shocker. Also when you take a look at this whole conversation about diversity, with Chris Rock he kept it very specific to black actors, but a lot of the conversation about it has been wider than that. And what I also saw, I saw some Asian actors who were coming out on stage. You saw but the problem is they're not nominated. Right? You have Alejandro Inarritu, the director who won for "The Revenant." He was also talking about it because, obviously, he's Hispanic, and talking about the fact that he's put into this category as well. So you have to look at this diversity conversation as being whiter than it is, and at the same time, while it makes a lot of people uncomfortable to talk about race, it makes a lot of people uncomfortable that they can't get roles. And one movie that actually did better about this was "The Martian." You just have Martinez who just happens to be Hispanic in the movie. You had, you know, and Donald Glover who just happens to be the truly great mathematician who happens to be black. And I think that's where the conversation needs to go, not necessarily casting the black guy to be the black guy, but maybe this is just a good character and he's a good actor who could be in that role. And that's the change that
[Costello:] Well, I think
[Elam:] They're saying isn't happening.
[Costello:] I think change is happening, but at a you know, at a smaller level. Like if you watch shows on Netflix, there's a lot of diversity in roles on Netflix. Even if you watch television, Michaela. It's just not happening in movies.
[Davis:] Television, Broadway. But change is awkward. And Hollywood has been so white, so male, so straight for so long that this is the process. Right? Like from one night you can feel awkward in your designer clothes.
[Costello:] All right. I have to leave it there. Michaela Angela Davis, Stephanie Elam, thanks to both of you.
[Davis:] Thank you.
[Costello:] Coming up in the NEWSROOM, he seizes the spotlight and loves playing to the crowd. So what does Donald Trump like behind closed doors? I'll talk to a Trump biographer next.