[Aaron Brown, Cnn Anchor:] Good evening again. It's been nearly three years and two wars since 911 and there remain huge problems in commercial aviation that according to the chairmen of the 911 Commission who were before Congress today. Consider just one item. The terror watch list the airlines use is knowingly incomplete. Forget that it includes the names of people who aren't dangerous. It by design doesn't include the names of people who are. Currently, according to the commission, the government doesn't give the airlines the names of all suspected terrorists because it doesn't want to tip off the terrorists or their organizations. The Department of Homeland Security says that when the government eventually does all the checking instead of the airlines, the list will be expanded eventually. Until then, it is entirely possible that a known terrorist, a known terrorist, could board your flight, hijack it, blow it up, ram it into a building, lord knows what else. The airlines could have kept him off that flight if only the government had put his name on a watch list which for now it refuses to do. Three years and two wars and where homeland security is concerned we have a long way to go. We begin tonight in Iraq, in Najaf and a very shaky mixture of talking and shooting and waiting. CNN's Matthew Chance is there, comes to us by videophone, Matt, a headline.
[Matthew Chance, Cnn Correspondent:] Aaron, thank you. And, as the U.S. military and the Mehdi Army continue their standoff in Najaf there's little sign of an end to this crisis. Diplomatic efforts are continuing to try and get the Mehdi Army to lay down their weapons and to leave the mosque at the center of this battle, of this dispute. In the meantime, U.S. troops are killing and being killed in the holy city. We'll have a report on troop morale.
[Brown:] Matthew, thank you. Next to the White House, the president's plan to put a lot more troops in motion, CNN's Suzanne Malveaux with that, a headline Suzanne.
[Suzanne Malveaux, Cnn White House Correspondent:] Well, Aaron, this is a plan that the Pentagon has been talking about for years even prior to September 11th but that announcement came today and that has some people saying they smell politics.
[Brown:] Suzanne, thank you. An especially politicized story but should it be and what else are we missing by looking exclusively through political lenses, Jeff Greenfield knocking around on that one, so Jeff a headline.
[Jeff Greenfield, Cnn Sr. Analyst:] Aaron, troop deployment in Iraq, you'll be hearing a lot about that but there are literally a world of problems out there you're likely not going to hear a word about in this campaign that may prove to be the biggest headaches of all for the next president Aaron.
[Brown:] Jeff. Finally, to Florida and the effects of Hurricane Charley, in acres and dollars and lives. CNN's John Zarrella is in Punta Gorda, so John the headline.
[John Zarrella, Cnn Miami Bureau Chief:] Aaron, the relief effort here is in full swing bringing food, water and ice to the victims of Hurricane Charley but very quickly the search and rescue effort is winding down Aaron.
[Brown:] John, thank you. We'll get back to you and more in a moment. Also coming up on the program tonight with two weeks to go before the Republican convention is the Justice Department trying to stifle political protests? And they answered the call to serve their country even though by military rules they were far too young to fight. Their bravery will inspire you tonight. Also at the end, the rooster is set to crow and we will deliver your morning papers, all that and more in the hour ahead. We begin once again tonight in Iraq and in Iraq all roads lead to Najaf. Dislodging the cleric, dealing with this army and handling his followers remain the challenges of the day and some believe the entire ballgame. Political and religious leaders meeting in Baghdad today agreed to send a delegation to Najaf to give Muqtada al-Sadr's militia another chance to leave the Imam Ali Mosque and rejoin the political fold. The meeting, by the way, came under mortar attack. In Sadr City, not far away, militiamen blew up an American tank, no serious injuries reported but part and parcel of the skirmishes playing out in at least eight Iraqi cities including Najaf. The scene there tense with firefights breaking out in streets and alleyways and American shells landing in the cemetery surrounding the mosque. And knee deep in it all several thousand soldiers and Marines, two of whom were killed by sniper fire over the weekend in what is turning out to be one of the ugliest assignments of the war. We begin tonight with CNN's Matthew Chance.
[Chance:] The tombstones of the Valley of Peace, the ancient cemetery where U.S. troops have been fighting the Mehdi Army in Najaf. This has been an eerie battle on sacred ground that few want.
[Pfc Brendan Hartsburg, U.s. Army:] Actually, sir, it's very scary at night tell you the truth when you don't know where the enemy is. You don't know who they are, the insurgents, and it's an old cemetery so I kind of feel bad for the people in a certain way. It's their cemetery, their mosque right there.
[Chance:] And everyone is a suspect. Troops even open coffins yet to be buried in a grim search for weapons.
[Unidentified Male:] I'd like to pray especially today for the repose of the soul of all the Marines that have died.
[Chance:] In times of war the church has its own battles to fight. Soldiers and Marines attended this makeshift service to seek solace and advice. For some, the burden of killing or witnessing it is heavy.
[Capt. Paul Shaughnessy, U.s. Navy:] Last Friday night, it was during a mortar attack, it was a young corporal that was killed. It was about 50 feet from me. A lot of his friends were right there. We were trying to lift him out between two tombs so we could get him to the medical station and his friends had to do that and many of them because the blood was pretty profuse really affected them that somebody they had known that well kind of was dying before them.
[Chance:] And the threat of attack is constant. Here a network of IEDs or roadside bombs is uncovered, 43 in all, designed to kill. They're disarmed and destroyed this time but soldiers are killed and injured in attacks like this almost every day here.
[Spc James Tallant, U.s. Army:] Half the time, you know, you wave to somebody and they give you thumbs down and whatever, you know. You're driving down the road and an IED goes off or something like that it just, it makes it like, you know, why are we even here when most of the people don't, it seems like most of the people don't even want us here.
[Chance:] After nearly 16 months of post war Iraq it's a question many now ask. Well, some of the troops we've spoken to here, Aaron, are genuinely uncomfortable with the idea of fighting in sacred places, especially ones that are so politically sensitive but there's a more general frustration too. For many, fighting for the Iraq they thought they were fighting for, the secure and stable Iraq seems to be getting, you know, more distant Aaron.
[Brown:] And how does that, I mean other than complaining, which soldiers have done for as long as there have been soldiers I suppose how, if at all, does that play out this unhappiness, this morale problem, if that's what it is?
[Chance:] I wouldn't describe it as a morale problem. Certainly people, as I mentioned, aren't that comfortable with the kind of fighting that's going on, the kind of political constraints they're under. But in terms of what it means for them on the ground, it doesn't mean a great deal. They're a very professional fighting force here. They may not like all together what they're being asked to do but there's no question that they'll do it to the best of their ability.
[Brown:] Matt, thank you, Matthew Chance who's in Najaf today. Two more views of this now. Jeffrey Gettleman of the "New York Times" recently back from a six-month stay in Iraq. He joins us tonight from Atlanta. Here in New York, Ken Pollack, the Director of the Saban Center at the Brookings Institution and we're glad always to see them both. Jeff, I want to start with you. In Fallujah, where we went through a kind of similar dance back in the spring, did you notice morale issues among the Marines who were up there?
[Jeffrey Gettleman, "new York Times" Correspondent:] I think they were facing the same type of issues that are going on right now in Najaf and that is this rhythm that has been established of the U.S. military announcing that they're going to launch this large scale offensive, then halting to allow negotiations, which then break down and then the announcement again of more talk of a large scale assault. And what that does to the individual soldiers, it sort of pushes them and confuses them to figure out how to prepare themselves for either a peace mission or, you know, a hardcore combat mission and that is exactly what was going on in Fallujah in April and we're seeing that same rhythm happening right now in Najaf.
[Brown:] Ken, what may be uncomfortable for a soldier or Marine on the ground may nevertheless be the right strategy to employ that they're not mutually exclusive.
[Ken Pollack, Cnn Analyst:] Yes, and I think that that is the case here and I will say that in Fallujah I think we had absolutely the wrong approach and exactly what Jeffrey was describing got to some of the problems that we had in Fallujah. It was the wrong fight in the wrong way at the wrong time. Najaf is very different. This is a much more important fight. I'll be honest with you. It's a fight that we should have had 16 months ago and now that we've...
[Brown:] Why is it a more important fight?
[Pollack:] Because the Mehdi Army is actually becoming a political force inside of Iraq that is threatening to destabilize the larger structure. Fallujah's a problem as well and we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that we're going to need to deal with Fallujah at some point in time but they are not an active political force the way that the Mehdi Army is.
[Brown:] To button this up is it in some respects then too late to defeat that army given what happened after the ceasefire early this summer?
[Pollack:] I wouldn't say that it's too late to defeat it but it's certainly going to be much, much harder and that's what we're seeing. They've holed themselves up in the shrine of Imam Ali, which is one of the holiest sites in Shia Islam. They don't want to come out and what Jeffrey is describing is a strategy by which the U.S. is really trying to bluff them out of that shrine. Once they're out then they can take them down.
[Brown:] Jeffrey, just based on what you saw in Fallujah and the effects of that what happens when one group or another is seen as standing up to the coalition or standing up to the Americans? How does that spread out across the country, if at all?
[Gettleman:] Well, I think what happened in Fallujah was the Americans stake a lot of their credibility on coming up with this heavy handed solution which in the case of Fallujah was finding the insurgents who had killed the four American contractors and eradicating all terrorists from the city of Fallujah. Unfortunately, any solution short of that jeopardizes American credibility and that's what that's exactly what happened in Fallujah where they pushed into the city. They were told to halt. They pushed again. They were told to halt again to the frustrations of the soldiers on the front lines and then the insurgents sort of spun the result, which was this negotiation between the Marines and insurgent groups, they spun that as sort of a victory for the insurgency and all across Iraq people turned to Fallujah as an example of heroism, of standing up to the American forces. And even outside of Iraq there were some people who were committing terrorist acts in Saudi Arabia claiming to be part of a Fallujah brigade, which ironically was the name of the force that the U.S. had put in the city of Fallujah to preserve the peace.
[Brown:] Ken, where do the Americans go with this if Sadr doesn't lay down his arms, if his men don't lay down their arms, if in fact he is determined, we have no way of knowing one way or another if he's determined to fight to the death?
[Pollack:] I'll start by saying I think that that's a bridge that the Americans would really prefer not to have to cross because the answers at that point get even worse and my guess is that they will be confronted with two possibilities. One is they back off all together and try to think of a way to deal with him later down the road or they basically begin a siege of one of the holiest sites in Islam.
[Brown:] Can they do a Fallujah-like settlement where they essentially give Najaf over to be policed by the Mehdi Army?
[Pollack:] I think that's going to be very difficult. The Mehdi Army is a real problem by itself. That's one of the reasons why the U.S. went after them. I remember we didn't turn Fallujah over to them, at least we didn't we claimed we didn't turn it over to the militias themselves. We created this external force, this Fallujah brigade, and the problem is with the Mehdi Army we've not had other Shia come forward and say we can do the job and be accepted by other Shia groups and say this militia they could do the job.
[Brown:] It's a mess, isn't it?
[Pollack:] Yes, this is a tough spot, no question about it.
[Brown:] Nice to see you, Ken. Jeffrey, welcome home, good to see you again.
[Gettleman:] Thank you.
[Brown:] Thank you. Thank you both for joining us tonight. Circumstances notwithstanding, the conference going on in Baghdad is fascinating in its own right and we'll return to that a little bit later in the program. John Vause doing the reporting. First some of the other news of the day starting with the president's plan to bring tens of thousands of American troops home, not from Iraq, however, at least not anytime soon. So, why announce this massive troop change now? Well, it depends on who you ask and at which campaign event. Here's CNN's Suzanne Malveaux.
[Malveaux:] President Bush in a campaign event before the Veterans of Foreign Wars announced his plan to bring home up to 70,000 U.S. troops and 100,000 family members and civilians based overseas.
[George W. Bush, President Of The United States:] The new plan will help us fight and win these wars of the 21st Century. It will strengthen our alliances around the world while we build new partnerships to better preserve the peace.
[Malveaux:] The plan, one of the biggest troop redeployments since the end of the Korean War, is aimed at shifting military personnel initially assigned in Western Europe and Asia to deter the Soviets during the Cold War. Troops would now be redeployed into smaller, more mobile units around the globe able to quickly respond to terror. There are currently 230,000 U.S. forces permanently stationed overseas, about half as part of the European Command, 98,000 at the Pacific Command, 7,000 at U.S. Central Command and 2,500 at Southern Command. Mr. Bush's critics are skeptical huge troop movements will improve U.S. security.
[Unidentified Male:] It's going to weaken our national security. It is not going to save us money. It will cost billions of dollars to bring these troops home.
[Gen. Wesley Clark, Former Nato Supreme Commander:] We need the leverage in Europe and we need the leverage in South Korea, the diplomatic leverage that those troops provide.
[Malveaux:] The president says his plan to close hundreds of U.S. facilities overseas over the next ten years will make life easier for military families and save the American taxpayers money. Mr. Bush's opponent, Senator Kerry, says as president he would add 40,000 troops to the global deployment. The president didn't talk specifically about the 150,000 U.S. troops temporarily deployed in the war zones of Afghanistan and Iraq. Nevertheless, the Bush campaign is hoping during this election season this redeployment plan will demonstrate the president's commitment to the troops. Kerry has said he would withdraw U.S. troops from the Iraq conflict during his first six months if he were president. Now, Aaron, as both sides battle to win the military vote, White Houses officials acknowledge that any major shift of U.S. troops from Western Europe or Asia would require years of negotiations with ally countries and that any real changes are about five to ten years away Aaron.
[Brown:] So that being the case, is the fact that they announced this now an indication they believe they may have some trouble with what is normally for Republicans a fairly reliable vote, the military vote?
[Malveaux:] Well, certainly what we're seeing here is that this is a Bush campaign that essentially is taking advantage of this moment. I mean they went forward. This was a campaign event. This was before a group of veterans and they made sure that everybody knew that the president was going to make this announcement that he was going to make news, therefore getting maximum coverage here. At the same time, however, the Kerry campaign also taking advantage of this moment to once again criticize the president for his Iraq policy.
[Brown:] Suzanne, thank you, Suzanne Malveaux at the White House tonight. Now at this point even a cynic might suggest that when it comes to troops and bases and foreign policy politics cannot and should not trump all. Jeff Greenfield is no cynic but he is our senior analyst.
[Bush:] The plan I'm announcing today over the next ten years we will bring home about 60,000 to 70,000 uniformed personnel.
[Greenfield:] Here's the least surprising fallout from the president's announcement on troop redeployment. All of the military, defense and foreign policy experts supporting Bush praised it. All of those supporting John Kerry denounced it and this debate will join the now familiar front and center argument about Iraq. [on camera]: But here's a news flash. Events around the world do not always fit neatly into the contours of an American presidential campaign and, while there seems little room to talk about such matters and the nightly battle to dominate the headlines, they are matters that could well prove a major headache for the next president whoever that may be. For instance... [voice-over]: Iran clearly has nuclear weapons ambitions. If it gets them, will that trigger a regional race for nuclear arms say by Egypt or Saudi Arabia? Would Israel take out an Iranian facility, as it did with Iraq in 1981? Can the United States negotiate with Iran, or, can it, should it encourage regime change given widespread discontent in Iran with its rulers? North Korea is apparently well on its way to joining the nuclear club if it hasn't already done so. It is also an impoverished nation where starvation is a reality. Will its desperate need for cash prod it to sell its nuclear know-how to other states or to stateless groups like al Qaeda? Can the United States negotiate a way out? And, given the north's ability to strike South Korea almost instantly with long range artillery does the U.S. have a military option if diplomacy fails? The 55-year-old tension between China and Taiwan shows signs of worsening. The Communist mainland seems to be demanding that Taiwan accept the idea of reunification. Taiwan's leaders in turn have flirted with the idea of independence. Recent United States policy has been to promise to defend Taiwan against the Chinese attack but also to oppose independence. Will the increasing economic engagement between the U.S. and China help cool tensions? If not, what does America do? Since September 11th, Pakistan's President Musharraf has stood with Washington in going after al Qaeda in Afghanistan and throughout the region but al Qaeda has backers in Pakistan's intelligence and military and Musharraf himself has escaped two assassination attempts in the last year. How should the U.S. respond if Pakistan, a nuclear power already, were to fall under the leadership of Muslim extremists? And these examples really scratch the surface of the dilemmas beyond our borders. For instance, if we want to lessen the poverty that helps breed extremism, opening our borders to third world imports might help but that could mean angering domestic political interests. Is that the sort of thing you can expect to hear the candidates talk about or the media to cover carefully? Aaron, don't hold your breath.
[Brown:] OK. I won't hold my breath but I'll ask a couple of questions.
[Greenfield:] Fair enough.
[Brown:] Start with why? Is it as simple as saying that these are very complicated problems that don't offer us easy solutions and certainly don't fit on bumper stickers?
[Greenfield:] That is a large part of it. It almost is that simple and I think it's a vicious cycle. If any of the candidates try to talk about it, I don't think the media would cover it very carefully or they'd try to find the most simplistic way to explain it and the candidate might find himself or herself getting in trouble.
[Brown:] There wasn't exactly a ferocious debate four years ago over al Qaeda.
[Greenfield:] That's a very understated way of putting it. There was no debate. There was no debate on foreign policy barely...
[Brown:] Right.
[Greenfield:] ...four years ago because the Cold War was over and we were turning inward and yet what is the president dealing with more than anything else? And I think some of these issues, I mean which are complicated and they're what they call MEGO, my eyes glaze over, who wants to hear about Taiwan and China? You want to hear about it if there's a conflict there in which the United States might have to send blood, resources.
[Brown:] Let me ask the last question. Let's assume here that the candidates will not willingly bring this stuff up because for all the reasons you said it's complicated. Is it then our job to create the agenda?
[Greenfield:] I think it is our job to tell Americans what is at stake. I don't I hate always hate the phrase create the agenda because it implies a kind of power we probably shouldn't have but the responsibility to talk about things that this country may face in the next five or ten years, I think that's always the journalists' responsibility whether, if I may put it this way, whether people want to hear about it or not. It may not be as exciting as Scott Peterson or Kobe Bryant or the gloved one but it just may have a lot more to do with how we live in the next decade.
[Brown:] Thank you, Jeffrey.
[Greenfield:] OK.
[Brown:] Jeff, did I call you Jeffrey?
[Greenfield:] No, not my name.
[Brown:] I don't think I did.
[Greenfield:] OK.
[Brown:] I'll check the tape later, Jeff Greenfield. Ahead on NEWSNIGHT the aftermath of Hurricane Charley, families trying to piece back the puzzle and neighbors helping each other to cope. It's a mess down there. And is it big brother justice chilling freedom of speech in advance of the Republican convention or just business as usual in the new normal? The answers are not easy or simple. From New York this is NEWSNIGHT. In Florida, three days out from Hurricane Charley, the enormous cleanup continues. The numbers tell a part of the story, 17 deaths, at least $11 billion in damage, that number expected to rise as the cost of the destruction is assessed. About 2,000 people are being housed in emergency shelters in 11 counties tonight. Nearly 800,000 homes and businesses remain without power across the state. Those are the outlines. In one of the hardest hit places, Punta Gorda, some details. Two reports tonight. CNN's Bob Franken but first we're joined by John Zarrella, John good evening.
[Zarrella:] Good evening, Aaron. Well, you can't really call it here good news but it certainly is better news. The relief effort is in full swing, food, water, ice, getting to the people, long lines as they wait. And the search and rescue effort is beginning to wind down. The feared high numbers of casualties have not materialized and officials here say many of those still listed as missing probably simply can't get to a phone. With each house checked, with each missing person located, there is a growing sense of relief in this hurricane battered community that fears of dozens of casualties will not be the case.
[Unidentified Male:] Your neighbors, do you know if anybody's home? He just left.
[Unidentified Female:] They're gone.
[Unidentified Male:] They're an elderly couple, he and his wife just left. They're fine.
[Zarrella:] There have already been two complete sweeps of the entire county by federal search teams and local urban rescue squads.
[Unidentified Male:] Hello, fire rescue.
[Zarrella:] Thirty-one mobile home parks have been scoured. Nearly every building that might have held a victim has been searched.
[Wayne Sallade, Charlotte County Emergency Manager:] Went door-to- door, room-to-room and they've not found anything.
[Zarrella:] Officials here believe people still unaccounted for simply haven't been able to get to a phone.
[Sallade:] We don't believe that the issues we're hearing about hundreds of missing. That's not a major concern because we believe that's a communications disconnect.
[Unidentified Male:] No phones, no power, no water. It just looks like a bomb hit the place.
[Zarrella:] A wireless company set up a mobile phone bank so people could get the word out to worried loved ones. For some of the elderly here the technology was a new experience.
[Unidentified Male:] I've never had a cell phone.
[Zarrella:] For all it was the first call out since the storm.
[Unidentified Female:] Can you call John to let him know we're OK? Hang in there, OK? Yes, call everybody. Can you tell everybody that we're OK, all right?
[Zarrella:] As word gets out, as one person and then another makes contact, the number of missing is reduced. Gizella D'Agostino can finally rest easy. Her sisters in Rochester know she's alive. John Zarrella, CNN, Punta Gorda, Florida.
[Bob Franken, Cnn National Correspondent:] The good life here has been replaced by a struggle to just get by.
[Unidentified Female:] There's three families right now.
[Franken:] Homes are destroyed, electric power gone in so many still standing, so now those, like Vivian Timko, who had been independent need help to get the basics, non-perishable food, water, and ice. [on camera]: Over the centuries humankind has developed ways to protect against nature but every once in a while nature faces us with the harsh reality that we can't take those conveniences for granted that to survive we have to go back in time. [voice-over]: Which means Vivian Timko made an ice run for her entire street.
[Vivian Timko, Storm Victim:] Can we put these in there?
[Franken:] This takes us back to the time before refrigerators. Ice was a necessary part of life. It is again.
[Timko:] I have grandchildren that are here also and, you know, they need cold juice, milk which, you know, they have to have, so ice is very important, you know keep things cold.
[Franken:] It doesn't last long in the intense heat, so Vivian Timko will have to make another ice run very soon.
[Timko:] I'm not much for camping. I'll tell you this is like as far as I want to go camping because to me this is just like camping, having to have to go get ice.
[Franken:] Vivian Timko and her neighbors who had their easy living obliterated by this hurricane can expect to be roughing it for a long time to come.
[Timko:] It hasn't even hit us, you know. It's like OK, we're just we're doing what we need to do but you know what it hasn't really hit us.
[Franken:] Bob Franken, CNN, Punta Gorda, Florida.
[Brown:] Back now to Iraq. It is fair to say that not much since the fall of Saddam has gone according to plan, which says something about Iraq these days and no doubt something about the plan itself. This should have been and may yet turn out to be an historic week. People from around Iraq gathered in Baghdad to choose in effect a Congress, the next step on the road to national elections. But as we said, in Iraq not much goes according to plan, including this. Here's CNN's John Vause.
[John Vause, Cnn Correspondent:] Democracy of a sort in action. For the second day, more than a thousand delegates met in Baghdad for a national conference. Behind the scenes, small meetings, debating, backroom deals. They were meant to elect an interim assembly to advice the Iraqi government for the next six months. But that has been pushed aside for now. Instead came a united front for the most pressing issue for Iraq they agree, the ongoing violence in Najaf. There U.S. and Iraqi forces are massed at the gates of the Imam Ali mosque. But an all-out offensive is now on hold, a demand which has been made from the conference floor.
[Hussain Sinjari, Conference Chairman:] There was nothing such as like this in Iraq before. This was for the first ever time.
[Vause:] There was also a call on Muqtada al Sadr and his followers to lay down their weapons, leave the mosque and join the political process, an offer made before by the U.S. and interim Iraqi government. HUSSEIN AL SADR, HEAD OF AL SADR CLAN Twenty one delegates will head to Najaf. Dr. Rajaa Khuzaie is one of them. She has high hopes for a quick resolution. How long do you think all this will take?
[Dr. Rajaa Khuzaie, Delegate:] I don't think this will take more than an hour.
[Vause:] That sounds more than optimistic. But a spokesman for al Sadr says the Shiite cleric will welcome the delegation. UNIDENTIFIED MALE But those are familiar words to the U.S., the Iraqi government and senior Shiite clerics. They've all tried before to win a lasting peace in Najaf. If this attempt fails, it seems al Sadr will have no one left to negotiate with. John Vause, CNN, Baghdad.
[Brown:] And we're joined from Baghdad by Chris Allbritton, who reports for "Time" magazine and others. He's on his third tour in Iraq. We're glad to have him with us. Is there anything substantively new in what this delegation has to offer? Or is there any new reason why al Sadr might accept it?
[Christopher Allbritton, "time" Magazine:] Well, Aaron, I think it is probably because it's al Sadr's last chance. There's nothing particularly new in this offer. The clemency offer has been on the table before. The right to participate in the political process has been on the table before. But as said earlier, this is coming from an Iraqi conference as opposed to from an installed government or occupation, CPA government. So it's new in that who it's coming from, but the offer itself, there's no real new details.
[Brown:] When you said it might be Sadr's last chance, let's just take a moment and say he rejects it, for whatever reason he rejects it, then what?
[Allbritton:] Well, I suspect that sometime this week we'll see Iraqi forces enter the mosque and try to eject him and his followers somehow. I sincerely hope that does it doesn't come to that. It would be a horrible thing I think in this country.
[Brown:] It would be a horrible thing in the country and perhaps beyond. It's the kind of thing that could ripple, couldn't it, throughout the Shiite world?
[Allbritton:] Potentially, yes. I mean the Imam Ali mosque in Najaf is basically the Vatican of the Shiite sect in Islam. It's one of it's possibly it's one of the holiest places for the sect and to have violence within the mosque or damage to the mosque, even by Iraqi troops, who are widely seen here as tools of the American government, I think it would inflame a lot of passions here and it would lead to who knows what. It could lead to a larger insurgency than we've seen even throughout the Sunni Triangle.
[Brown:] Do we know what Sadr really wants?
[Allbritton:] Well, that's a good question. No one seems to really know exactly what he wants except for al Sadr does. He's given conflicting demands. He's called for the government to resign. He has also called for a larger share of delegates in this national conference which he then will he has rejected to participate in because he says it's a tool of the occupation. So there's been a lot of conflicting demands about what he wants, but most people seem to think that he wants a the end game would be the occupation over. They want the U.S. troops out yesterday and some kind of Islamic state with Sharia as the law and maybe himself at the head, but definitely the Shia is in control. Something a little bit like maybe an Iran light.
[Brown:] That was actually my next question. Is this at some level a battle between the forces of a secular Iraq and a non-secular Iraq?
[Allbritton:] Well, that's a good question. To a degree it is. There are so many different factions here and so many different religious passions going on that it's kind of hard to tell who's on what side. I mean obviously Sadr is on the side of non-secular religious-based legal system and Islamic state, whereas you have people like Allawi who are secular and so in that sense, yes I guess you could say that it is a fight between secularism and faith-based movements. But beyond that, it is hard to say.
[Brown:] Looking at the situation today as compared to a week ago, do you are you more optimistic it will end well than you were a week ago?
[Allbritton:] Not particularly. If there's a break through in the talks, the delegation at the conference was supposed to send down yesterday has been delayed because of renewed fighting. They're supposed to go down this morning or some time today. We're not quite sure when. If there is a breakthrough and Muqtada does agree to leave the shrine, then this might end OK. If he refuses to leave the shrine, I've been told that the Allawi government it's no longer in a mood to talk. It is no longer in a mood to compromise. They are ready to go in. The Americans will back them up. The Americans will not go into the mosque itself. I've been assured of that. But there will be some pretty serious fighting if Muqtada does not bow and finally come out of the mosque.
[Brown:] And just finally as quickly as you can, are you 100 percent sure in your mind that Iraqi forces will actually go into that mosque?
[Allbritton:] I've been told that, yes they would go in.
[Brown:] OK, Chris, thanks a lot, nice job tonight. Chris Allbritton who writes for "Time." Protesters have long been both the bane and the beauty of political conventions, disruptive and annoying to the power convening, to the party convening. In Chicago in 1968 with a war on, protesters were confronted by police in what a commission later called a police riot. In 2004 protesters are again being confronted by police. This time before they protest, which is raising all sorts of questions. Here is CNN's Kelli Arena.
[Kelli Arena, Cnn Correspondent:] Twenty-one-year-old Sarah Bardwell has participated in some political protests in the past, but she had no plans to attend either political convention and says none of her friends did either. Still, she says four FBI agents and two police officers showed up at her Denver home in July to ask her and her roommates if they or anyone they knew planned to engage in criminal activity in either Boston or New York.
[Sarah Bardwell, Police Activist:] I think that the reasons the FBI came to our house was to intimidate us out of using our first amendment rights. And I think that they chose us because most of the people in my house had been politically involved.
[Arena:] FBI officials acknowledge that after receiving information about possible disruptions at both political conventions, agents did interview a number of citizens in an effort to learn more. Officials say the threat information was specific. For example, during the Democratic convention, the FBI said it had information about the possible bombing of media vans.
[Barbara Comstock, Fmr. Justice Dept. Spokeswoman:] The FBI is following up on leads that they get to investigate criminal activity, but that is not chilling activity. That is normal everyday police practice.
[Arena:] The FBI has issued bulletins ahead of other planned protests warning agents about potential violence. The Justice Department has said the bulletins were constitutional because quote, threats of violent or destructive civil disturbance do not fall within the protection of the first amendment. But the American Civil Liberties Union charges the government with stepping over the line.
[Ann Beeson, American Civil Liberties Union:] It's when the FBI engages in tactics like that that we begin to think of what happened back in the 1960s, in the 1970s when the FBI and the CIA intentionally targeted anti-war protesters.
[Arena:] The ACLU says not only is the FBI interviewing protesters, but infiltrating some of their meetings, all of which it says is seriously intimidating. But not to Sarah Bardwell. She says the experience has made her even more committed. Kelli Arena, CNN, Washington.
[Brown:] Still ahead on the program tonight, they answered their country's call to duty much earlier than most. Veterans now were barely children when they enlisted. Their story after the break. This is NEWSNIGHT on CNN. At the 23rd Republican National Convention in 1924, Herbert Hoover said this. Older men declare war, but it is the youth who must fight and die and it is youth who must inherit the tribulation, the sorrow and the triumphs that are the aftermath of war. And so it has always been with war, the fallen soldiers we honor every night here are with few exceptions young. But not the youngest Americans ever to be marked by war, not nearly. Some like Bobby Petit were looking for adventure. He was 15.
[Unidentified Male:] As we were going in, all the shells from these
[Brown:] Others were looking for a home.
[Unidentified Female:] One day I went into Houston and there was a big sign that says "Uncle Sam wants you." and I thought, oh, good, somebody wants me.
[Brown:] Some were looking for a second chance.
[Unidentifed Male:] My best friend stayed behind, and at 19 he was drinking in a bar, which was illegal. He got into an argument, chased the guy out, chased him into the supermarket and with a tire iron, was going to beat him up. And the guy pulled a knife and stabbed him and he died.
[Brown:] One thing they had in common, they were barely more than children when they joined up. For Al Stover, it was the U.S. Coast Guard.
[Unidentified Male:] He stopped in front of me and he looked in my face and he says, how old you are? And I was shocked. And I said, seven-four-17, sir. I almost gave the wrong age. And he says, yeah, I'm the queen of Sheba.
[Brown:] The WACS were the best thing that ever happened to 13- year-old Doris Gilbert. Three meals a day, a place to sleep and friends to replace parents who disappeared. It took a year for the military to realize she wasn't 22 years old and muster her out.
[Unidentified Female:] General Eisenhower, he was a general then, was there and he gave us our discharges and wished us luck and shook our hands and tears running down my face and I'm crying. And he said, go home, little girl and grow up and come back. We need soldiers like you. And, of course, I really broke up then.
[Brown:] Bobby Petit was determined not to miss the war in the Pacific.
[Unidentified Male:] The roughest time was having to leave home once you were there, to get on that train and wave good-bye to your friends. Yep, that was tough.
[Brown:] When the war ended, Bobby Lee decided it was time to go back to high school. And he finally told his captain the truth.
[Unidentified Male:] He kind of looked at me and said, you're 16, you're first class and you've been in the Navy almost three years on two ships and six deployments to the Pacific and five battle stars. He cussed me up one side and down the other.
[Brown:] Like many underage veterans, Bobby Lee was stripped of all benefits, most important the guarantee of college under the G.I. bill. It took a congressman and some headlines to get them back. Losing benefits was one of the reasons Al Stover and his late wife founded the Veterans of Underage Military Service. They fought and won promises from all the military branches, not to punish those who lied to serve.
[Unidentified Male:] The greatest experience of my life.
[Brown:] Today there are more than 2,000 present and former members, an impressive group that boasts a senator, a chief of naval operations, and a marine who won the medal of honor on Iwo Jima when he was but 17. I wasn't smart enough to know that you could get killed out here. Morning papers after the break. Okey-dokey. Time to check morning papers from around the country and around the world. Here we go. The "International Herald Tribune" published by "The New York Times." Thorpe first, Phelps third and Spitz safe. Mark Spitz seven gold medals, right, seven gold medals record is safe. There's an Olympic thing going on. And if you promise to watch this program, I promise to update you on the headline from them each night. Oh, you're not there, huh? The "Washington Times." This is a great story "The Times" had the other day. Federal agents added to flights. Officials deny reduction of marshals. The "Times" the other day reported that fewer than 5 percent or roughly 5 percent of all flights in the United States actually have air marshals on them, much lower than I think many people thought. The government says, well that's not exactly right. But anyway, they're going to add some more anyway. Phelps' record dream falls short. By the way, that headline still holds. This is a good story, too. Clues in cave link site to John the Baptist. They found this place, site in Israel that may have been where John the Baptist once did his deal back then a long time ago. "Christian Science Monitor," 15 years after cold war, a troop shift, a logical lead story. Olympic story for U.S. team, the night of decision, the women's gymnastics coming up. I'm sure you'll all ignore that for this program tomorrow. "Philadelphia Inquirer" paradise in pieces, a hurricane story. I'm the chump from California that bought this house and now it's gone, the guy says. That's Bob Zeider in Florida. Was there something else I liked here maybe? I just liked this picture from the "Times." It's the British badminton team celebrating a victory. They get really excited over badminton, don't they? How are we doing on time? Oh, my goodness. Hardly any. "Chicago Sun-Times," Oprah serving on a murder jury. That made the front page. Yeah, she'll stay on that jury. I was called on one of those once. The weather tomorrow in Chicago, motley, oh and those hip hugger pants, they're going away, just when my daughter bought every possible pair. We'll be right back to wrap it up. About now I start to think about what am I going to do at 7:00 in the morning and fortunately Bill Hemmer has an answer to that.
[Bill Hemmer, Cnn Correspondent:] Aaron thanks. Tomorrow on "AMERICAN MORNING," who controls the future of Iraq, the interim government in power, but what happens if it cannot rein in the uprising in Najaf. Talked to one U.S. lawmaker just back from that country, Connecticut Republican Christopher Shays our guest here on "
[American Morning," 7:] 00 a.m. Eastern time. Hope to see you then. Aaron.
[Brown:] Bill, thank you, sounds like a pretty good booking for them at 7:00 on "AMERICAN MORNING." Lou Dobbs tonight is next.