[Harlow:] All right. Well, welcome back. If you missed this story, listen up. Scathing accusations against the biggest utility company in the state of California. "The Wall Street Journal" is reporting that PG&E knew for years that its power lines could fail and spark fires, but did not take the necessary steps to repair them. One of PG&E's failed lines is blamed for starting that huge fire in Northern California last November that killed 85 people and completely destroyed the entire town of Paradise. The utility company says it disagrees with the report's conclusions. One of the reporters the dogged reporters who broke this story for the "Journal" joins me live. Good morning to you. Katherine Blunt is with me. Good on you for digging, getting these documents through a Freedom of Information Act request. What do they tell us about over 18,000 miles of power lines that PG&E operated?
[Katherine Blunt, Reporter, The Wall Street Journal:] Sure. Well, first of all, the transmission line that failed in November and sparked the Camp Fire is incredibly old. And it shines light on just how old a lot of this infrastructure is. This is a line that was built in 1921 to carry power from the Sierra Nevada range to San Francisco. And like I I mean, these towers are a century old. That's one thing. And it also showed the extent of the age of the overall system that it was a part of. I mean, the entire system is that old. And we also received other documents as well, through a few other means, that show that the company had been trying for a number of years to get a handle on the extent to which its system was aging. And
[Harlow:] Right.
[Blunt:] it's not just this system. It's this particular system that I referred to it is a number of it is
[Harlow:] Right.
[Blunt:] a substantial amount of the company's infrastructure.
[Harlow:] I mean, you write about some of these towers, right? That are 108 years old. When at 60 or 65
[Blunt:] Right.
[Harlow:] they have to be replaced. So four decades of going on in dangerous conditions. One of the things that struck me is you write, PG&E, quote, "knew that 49 of the steel towers that carry the electric lines that failed, needed to be replaced entirely. But then they ranked improvements to their transmission lines as low-risk and spent billions of dollars instead on other projects like substation upgrades." I mean
[Blunt:] Right.
[Harlow:] I guess the fundamental question is, why? Did they truly think
[Blunt:] Right.
[Harlow:] nothing like this would ever happen?
[Blunt:] Right. And, I mean, that's a question that we're still trying to get at, as to why exactly a lot of these projects had been delayed. Let's just go back to the line that started the Camp Fire.
[Text:] "Camp Fire" By the Numbers: Deadliest, most destructive fire in California; 85 people killed; Nearly 14,000 homes destroyed; Entire town of Paradise destroyed; Overall losses estimated at $16.5 billion
[Blunt:] We actually first reported in February that the company had delayed necessary upgrades to this project. We ended up getting these documents by asking federal forest managers to share with us the correspondence they'd had with the company, as the company was saying that it needed to upgrade these lines. And, you know, in these in this correspondence, they state very clearly, "We need to replace 49 towers because of age. We need to replace conductor and hardware because of age and integrity." And
[Harlow:] Right.
[Blunt:] you know, it is difficult at times to permit in these forests. And so that could be a cause for this particular delay
[Harlow:] Right.
[Blunt:] but I mean, they first proposed this work in 2013.
[Harlow:] Wow.
[Blunt:] And this isn't the only project of this nature that they're continuing to delay.
[Harlow:] Yes. Six years ago. Before you go, Katherine, obviously, you report out here how it appears regulators totally dropped the ball in holding PG&E accountable and making them do these repairs as well. A federal judge yesterday ruled that PG&E has to, paragraph by paragraph that is the judge's wording reply to your reporting. What does what does that feel like?
[Blunt:] Oh, Judge Alsup is a really fascinating person. He's extremely frank and colloquial. He's been overseeing the company's federal probation after a 2010 pipeline explosion south of San Francisco. And what he's tasked with is essentially trying to ensure that the company is a good corporate actor going forward, and doesn't commit any more crimes. And so to probe this in this way is going to be very interesting. I am certainly curious to how the company responds. We have, of course, given them the chance to respond to our reporting before we published, and they didn't dispute our conclusions. So we'll see what they file.
[Harlow:] So you have not heard yet, but you do expect to get more answers from PG&E because of what this judge has called for?
[Blunt:] They have to. They have to file a public statement in court. And
[Harlow:] OK.
[Blunt:] and we'll see how they answer these we'll see how they answer.
[Harlow:] All right. Well, again, this is a fire that cost 85 American lives. Thank you very much, Katherine Blunt, for your important reporting. We appreciate it.
[Blunt:] Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it.
[Harlow:] Of course, of course. Thanks so much for being with me today. I'll see you back here tomorrow morning. I'm Poppy Harlow. "AT THIS HOUR WITH KATE BOLDUAN" starts right now.