[Miles O'brien, Cnn Anchor:] With the margin narrowing and the deadline nearing, both sides in Florida remain dug in for a battle to examine the Florida quagmire, now a legal quagmire in many ways. We're joined by two south Florida members of Congress. Ileana Ros-Lehtinen has been rallying Republicans in Miami and Peter Deutsch represents Democrats in parts of two companies, Broward and Miami- Dade. Welcome to you both.
[Rep. Ileana Ros-lehtinen , Florida:] Thank you. Good morning.
[Rep. Peter Deutsch , Florida:] Thank you.
[O'brien:] Mr. Deutsch, I'd like to begin with you. I know you've been watching a lot of the counting under way. What's your impression of the fairness of the whole process?
[Deutsch:] Well, in Broward County, as you're well aware, the manual recount was completed last night and I think the process went really very well in Broward County. We ended up with a fair and accurate count, as provided for under the Florida law. The manual recount is a more accurate way of determining voter intent, as provided by the Florida legislature, as well as eight or nine other states. The computers can't read partially detached chads, holes in chads, dimpled chads and the canvassing board went through them one by one and no votes were manufactured, but literally over a thousand voters, both Bush voters and Gore voters, votes were counted because of the manual recount.
[O'brien:] All right, let's look at the flip side of the chad here, Ms. Ros-Lehtinen, what are your impressions of the overall fairness of the process?
[Ros-lehtinen:] Well, of course, I'm sure that Peter would be very happy with that recount because I think the Broward Canvassing Board used two standards, first, the ouija board, and when that didn't get them enough votes, then they used the other very strong criterion, which says you have to be a lunatic to vote for George W. Bush. Of course you meant to vote for Al Gore. They used the dimpled ballot. And I want the viewers to understand that this is an incredible process, where there's no hole, there's no light shining through. It's very unlike the process that Palm Beach is using. And let me just read two sentences of what they were using beforehand as part of their criteria. It says that an indentation is not evidence of intent to cast a valid vote. Well, that was then, this is now. Now Broward County, what a surprise, over 500 votes for Al Gore, of course, it's totally biased and each person in that canvassing board had a different criteria of what constituted a ballot. There were no written uniform standards to guide this statewide election and it is, I think it will be a court challenge for whoever wins or wherever loses.
[O'brien:] All right...
[Deutsch:] Let me just jump in...
[O'brien:] I'll tell you what, Mr. Deutsch...
[Deutsch:] Because...
[O'brien:] Mr. Deutsch...
[Deutsch:] Let me just jump in, though, just in response because in Broward...
[O'brien:] All right, briefly because we've talked about these chads ad nauseum.
[Deutsch:] OK, but again, in Broward County, unfortunately they did not use the dimpled standard, Ileana. That's exactly, I wish they did because eight other states, every appellate court in the United States that has faced this issue has said to use the dimpled standard. The Texas statute by statute says use the dimpled standard. In fact, a state representative manual recount was just done in the state of Texas where they used, guess what, the dimpled standard. So I wish in the county...
[Ros-lehtinen:] In Texas...
[O'brien:] All right, all right.
[Deutsch:] ... that they had...
[O'brien:] Enough.
[Deutsch:] But they did what...
[O'brien:] Let's move along.
[Deutsch:] ... what was provided under Florida law. They looked at every ballot...
[O'brien:] Folks...
[Deutsch:] ... ballot by ballot.
[Ros-lehtinen:] That's not true.
[O'brien:] Folks, can I ask you for just a moment to get your crystal balls out or your ouija boards, if you prefer, and look ahead here to the deadline. In all likelihood, what is going to happen here is Palm Beach is not going to finish the task today and what is going to happen, the count will virtually stand as it does right now and what that will do is put Katherine Harris in a position to certify George W. Bush as the winner in Florida. OK, what happens then, Ms. Ros-Lehtinen?
[Ros-lehtinen:] Well, I think the first thing is that the Al Gore campaign will once again try to get the Miami-Dade Canvassing Board to count hand ballots, even though already at three levels in our judicial process they have been turned down. First, the Miami-Dade Canvassing Board said no, we cannot continue because we cannot meet the deadline. Then they went, Al Gore's campaign went to a local judge. That judge says Miami-Dade Canvassing Board is right. It's their discretion if they can't do it. Then the Al Gore campaign took it to the appeals court. Once again, Al Gore lost. Then they took it to the Florida Supreme Court, a court that we say is really appointed by Republicans, and once again the Miami-Dade Canvassing Board was affirmed to be correct in this decision.
[O'brien:] Look, I'm trying to get a handle on what's going to happen next, though. If you could give me an idea...
[Ros-lehtinen:] So that's going to be what's going to happen next.
[O'brien:] If you were advising...
[Ros-lehtinen:] They are going to sue the board of Miami-Dade.
[O'brien:] If you were advising the Bush camp, would you have Mr. Bush make a speech and declare victory and demand a concession from Mr. Gore?
[Ros-lehtinen:] That would be the correct thing to do. We're going to have an election certified today by 6:00 p.m. but I know that court challenges will continue. No one says that they shouldn't continue. But to go on and count and recount and recount until Al Gore gets the votes that he needs, I think, is an unfair process.
[O'brien:] Mr. Deutsch...
[Ros-lehtinen:] There's got to be an end to this.
[O'brien:] ... what happens if George W. Bush, after the certification, makes some sort of victory speech? What does the Gore camp do next?
[Deutsch:] Well, I think, first of all, it would be absurd. I think we need to step back a little and remind everyone in America what happened in Miami-Dade County. What happened in Miami-Dade County is a bunch of paid, out of state, you know, political operatives came into south Florida to try to disrupt the fair and accurate count of a federal election. They tried to do it in Broward County. They weren't successful. We didn't let it happen. Unfortunately, the reality of what happened on Wednesday was they were successful in Miami-Dade. If Al Gore, assuming at five o'clock today he's not ahead, if he does not contest what happened in Miami-Dade, what we will have had happen in the United States of America is literally, as crazy as it sounds, a mob determining the outcome illegally, in violation of the federal Voting Rights Act, a mob will determine who became president of the United States. I can't believe that the people of America would want that to happen.
[Ros-lehtinen:] That is absolutely untrue.
[Deutsch:] And I don't believe the Florida courts will allow that to happen either.
[Ros-lehtinen:] No.
[O'brien:] All right, Ms. Ros-Lehtinen briefly, because we're running out of time.
[Ros-lehtinen:] That is actually factually untrue. The Miami-Dade Supervisor of Elections, David Leahy himself said he was not intimidated. It was a vote that he cast to say that he could not continue with the hand count. And many of their Republican Hispanic precincts were not counted. He could not submit those reports by 5:00 p.m. today. He was not intimidated. Don't make up the facts, Peter, just to your theory.
[Deutsch:] That's just not true, Ileana. That's what he said to "The New York Times" and a reporter reported it. You know, he changed his statement after he realized, you know, who his bosses are, a Republican county commission. But again, the reporter I spoke with stands by his article.
[Ros-lehtinen:] Who won Miami Al Gore won Miami-Dade County.
[O'brien:] I'm sorry, I'm going to have to revoke...
[Deutsch:] Stands by his article that they weren't committee people, saw it on TV...
[Ros-lehtinen:] Gore won this county, Peter. How many more votes do you want?
[Deutsch:] They saw it themselves on TV, Ileana.
[O'brien:] All right, I am sorry. Our time is expired.
[Deutsch:] I mean the people in America saw it.
[O'brien:] I must invoke cloture here. Thank you so much both...
[Deutsch:] They saw it on
[Tv. O'brien:] ... for being with us.
[Ros-lehtinen:] Untrue.
[O'brien:] Ileana Ros-Lehtinen...
[Deutsch:] How can it be untrue? They saw it on TV, Ileana.
[O'brien:] Representative Peter Deutsch of the 18th and 20th Districts of Florida respectively. Thanks very much for being with us on
[Cnn Sunday Morning. Deutsch:] Thanks a lot.
[O'brien:] Clearly the debate continues.