[King:] We're talking about accountability in the wake of the West Virginia coal mine explosion. The mine is in Democratic congressman Nick Rahall's district, and he joins me now to go "One on One." Congressman, appreciate your time. After the Sago disaster a few years back, federal law about mine safety was changed. And everyone said the goal was so this would never happen again. Does that agency, the Mine Safety and Health Administration does it still lack teeth, does it still lack resources or does it still lack resolve to do the job the way it needs to be done?
[Rep. Nick Rahall , West Virginia:] Well, a couple points, John. Let me say, first of all, I'm not going to dispute your well researched figures you just presented. Certainly, those figures present a case for closer scrutiny by agencies at all levels, federal, state and in the Congress. I will say that every violation, of course, is not as serious as other violations. The serious violations deserve the scrutiny and deserve to be looked at. But it must also be noted that because a violation is issued will mean that the operator is taking attention of something that's wrong. And in most cases, most responsible operators will correct whatever is wrong in order for that violation, that citation to go away. Is there an adjudication process here on the serious violations which are not contested by the company? Yes, there is. Is that adjudication process too long? Perhaps it is. But following the Sago and Aracoma disasters, which should be mentioned, as well Aracoma disaster was several years back, following Sago, another mine owned by this same company, A.T. Massey we did institute federal safety laws, following our state lead. And those laws put into place did have features that were in place here at this mine, but perhaps were not given a chance to kick in because of the severity of this mine explosion. We certainly need to find out what happened here and we need to hold those responsible accountable.
[King:] But we have these accountability questions only after brave men die. And my question to you, sir, and is is if this place was a bad actor you used those terms yourself, has a maverick reputation, you used on our air this morning we have talked to miners who say that were worried about the evacuation plan. They were worried about the ventilation plan. There have been citations about methane gas and citations about coal dust. Why isn't there a system to say, We're not assigning blame here, but enough allegations have been raised that we're going to stop work until we figure this out? If my car doesn't have a blinker, I can't get a safety inspection. If my brakes are worn too low, I can't get a safety inspection. The government stops me because that car might hurt somebody and might kill somebody. Why doesn't the government, the congressmen, somebody stop a mine when people are saying it's a ticking time bomb?
[Rahall:] That's a valid point, John, and certainly, we need to pay attention when there are warning signs issued. The unfortunate fact is here that when many of those warning signs come from the miners themselves, those most directly affected, those who have to go into the mine before the sun comes up and don't come out until the sun goes down, we have to have verification. Certainly, any agency would have to have some sort of verification from that miner. Now, to just go on an anonymous tip won't work. But believe you me, MSHA is doing a better job in recent years. They've had cutbacks in the past, yes, but in the last year or so, they are beefing up their personnel, they are training their personnel, again a requirement under the Miner Act. They're having practice sessions at least quarterly, and these individuals now that are inspecting our mines are being better informed and are better trained than mine safety inspectors of the past. So it is a new age and it is coming into effect, and we will certainly follow up in the Congress.
[King:] That's my question, in the sense that I know you will follow up, sir, and I'm not questioning your commitment to this issue. But it is only after people die that we start asking these questions. I am trying to figure out, is there a way to have a circuit breaker that doesn't blame anybody I know the company is innocent until proven guilty. Some of these violations, as you mentioned, are very, very minor. They can be taken care of quickly, but some of them are not, the allegations. And is there a way and the miners say they have to go to work because they have to feed their families. Is there a way for the industry, somebody, to create a fund that if you need to stop work for a day or three or even a week or three, to check these things out, that these guys get paid? So that they are not afraid to raise their hands? And that somebody can go in and say, is there a methane buildup in there? Is there an evacuation plan? Is there too much coal dust before we have to have a conversation under these circumstances?
[Rahall:] I will admit to you the warnings signs were there on this particular operation, this particular mine. And as I have said and you've accurately quoted, this has been a bad apple, and it's incumbent that we find methods, perhaps an anonymous 800 toll-free line and we have experimented with that in the past to get people to call in with information. And then that's not enough. And even the law passed by Congress is not enough if it's not implemented and enforced. And that's the key here, is implementation on the ground, enforcement. And that takes integrity. That takes honesty. That takes a no cutting the corners approach not only by the industry, but those that inspect the industry as well, and who may be later on in life, in their careers, looking for a job within that same industry. We've seen that in the past. I'm not saying that's happening today, but that is a warning to these mine inspectors that they have to be on the alert for the warning signals, and then run it up the chain of command, no matter how frivolous you may think it is at the time.
[King:] But you said yourself, sir, that there were warning signs, you just said warning signs were there at this particular mine before this accident.
[Rahall:] Yes, they were.
[King:] So why didn't somebody, maybe the local congressman that would be you or somebody, chain themselves to the damn fence and say, there are enough warnings signs, you're not going in there?
[Rahall:] Well, the fact of the matter is that those warning signs weren't brought to the proper officials. We know now, for example, because of your research of the violations issued as late as Monday, although I don't think serious, but there were violations I've just learned that were issued as late as March 30th that perhaps were of a more serious nature, involving ventilation. When you have violations or citations issued because of ventilation, improper ventilation for methane and CO and other hazardous gases, then that should be a warning something is wrong. But it should be made public. It should be made knowing to the members of Congress. That was not made to my attention. It was not brought to my attention. And as far as I know, I'm not sure whose attention it was brought to, except perhaps some listing in an anonymous register somewhere. That don't get it. And that's where we need to have some other type of alert when these violations, citations are issued.
[King:] Congressman Nick Rahall, I appreciate your time tonight, sir. And let's talk [inaudible], if there's anything you think our business can do, my business can do to help bring these things to people's attention, I hope in the days and weeks ahead you drop us a note or give us a call, because we would like to be part of it as well. Congressman Nick Rahall, thank you, sir.
[Rahall:] Thank you, John.
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