[Michael Smerconish, Cnn Anchor:] I'm Michael Smerconish. Welcome to the program. We begin with breaking news. Overnight, U.S. special forces killed a senior ISIS commander during a raid intended to capture him in eastern Syria. No U.S. personnel were killed or injured during the attack which took place inside ISIS territory. Let's get right to CNN military analyst Major James "Spider" Marks. General, who was Abu Sayyaf?
[Major James "spider" Marks, Cnn Military Analyst:] Abu Sayyaf in the vernacular was the CFO for ISIS. He was responsible for all the oil and gas revenue but he also had been creeping up in the organizational structure as having a very large command and control portfolio, as well. So, this was a significant hit this morning.
[Smerconish:] The White House, of course, has said that we would not put boots on the ground in Syria, it seems like we just did that. Have we established a new precedent?
[Marks:] Oh, no. These boots were, look, let's not call them boots. These are special operators that went after a very high-value target, eliminated the target and were able to come back safely with Abu Sayyaf's wife, Um Sayyaf, who really is the deputy to her former husband. This was a high-risk, high-reward operation executed phenomenally.
[Smerconish:] In other words, you're saying there could be great military significance. Intelligence gathered from the wife.
[Marks:] Absolutely correct. The interrogation that will follow, following this is significant. That's kind of point number one. Point number two, as a result of this raid, special operators walked away with a lot of documents. A lot of information. Hard drives, computers, et cetera. We will go through, we, the intelligence community will go through that very, very quickly to see if there is targetable intelligence, proof of life of some other captors and what we'll be able to do is build a very strong, very clear picture of what these revenue sources are that have continued to fund ISIS activities.
[Smerconish:] It's just interesting that given the ISIS, ISIL subjugation of women that in this particular case when it comes to terror activities, women seemed to be afforded an equal playing surface. They are put in positions of authority?
[Marks:] Yes, I know. That's the irony of all of this you wonder what playbook you're really looking at. It's not a playback within balanced rules. But we know that. There's a level of barbarism behind their activities that we understand. It's difficult for us, really, to get our hands around it. But the operation that was conducted to go after him was clearly, you can't second guess the national security team. Obviously, it worked out very, very well.
[Smerconish:] General, how replaceable is he? It seems that ISIS or ISIL doesn't have the type of command structure that one would find, say in the U.S. military?
[Marks:] Yes, a battlefield commander generally someone who has been in the fight and someone who understands the dynamics of moving men and material across spaces and then engaging in some very specific operations, those individuals can be replaced. But this is the CFO. This is the one who has been running all behind the scenes, has been running all the activities that fund what we see as a matter of routine. What ISIS puts out there. Their activities that we see them routinely conducting. This is the one who creates the revenue so they can conduct these operations and this amazing marketing arm that they've been able to achieve. This is all now, hopefully, at risk because of this operation.
[Smerconish:] General, please stand by. CNN's chief Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr is joining me now by phone. Barbara, what's the latest from the Pentagon on this?
[Barbara Starr, Cnn Chief Pentagon Correspondent:] Well, we have been talking, Michael, to a number of sources that will say to you are directly familiar with the operation on the ground in Syria overnight. Now, while this man, Abu Sayyaf was in charge of oil and gas operations, there may be other reasons they went after him. We need to remember that the U.S. assessment was he was increasingly involved in ISIS's day-to-day operations, command and control. This is the key thing that the U.S. wanted to get some insight into. Two sources telling me that there is reason to believe he may have been in some level of contact with the ISIS leader, Abu Baker al-Bagdadi. We don't have details on that. But the fact that two sources familiar with the operation on the ground are able to tell us at CNN that there's reason to believe he may have been in contact with Bagdadi begins to shape the picture on why they were willing to risk U.S. troops to go get him. 09:05:06 It wasn't just to get him, but his communication's equipment going into where he was as we have seen over the years in every one of these raids. Trying to get the laptops, trying to get the cell phones and trying to get any intel material in a site to bring it back and exploit it and see what you can find out. We have a couple of other details to share with you. These U.S. special operations commandos, we are told they were led by the U.S. Army. There was a firefight, but I am now also told that there was hand-to-hand combat on the ground when this all erupted. That there were, it was such close quarters that some of the ISIS people on the ground tried to fight back with hand-to-hand combat in the U.S. Army commandos, obviously, dealt with that situation very quickly. We are told about a dozen or so ISIS personnel on the ground killed by the U.S. commandos. Abu Sayyaf also fighting back against the U.S. troops and was killed in that. So, I think it's beginning to take shape very rapidly that we may all not have known about this man, but U.S. intelligence did. They were looking at him very closely. They were tracking him. They were beginning to see a picture emerge that he might have a lot of crucial information about top ISIS leadership, about the command and control of ISIS, about their operational activity and the president citing, Michael, it was absolutely worth it to go in and try and get it.
[Smerconish:] Do we know yet, Barbara, which of our special forces successfully pulled off this mission?
[Starr:] I will tell you that we are told it was Army special operation forces and that usually is essentially defined as Army Delta Force. These along with units like S.E.A.L. team 6 are the best trained, most covert, highly trained commandos obviously in the U.S. military. If you think about it, these are the kinds of guys that go in deep into enemy territory. Know that they're going to get in a firefight or try to. Their goal is to go in quick as heavy and hot with rapid fire as they can. Immediately control their perimeter. Immediately control their situation. Get their objective, capture or kill and get out as fast as they can. It is the type of operation that killed Osama Bin Laden. It is the type of operation that they have quietly done for many, many years in places like Afghanistan and Iraq, in Somalia, in Yemen, in Libya. This is what they do. And their rate of success last night was all of them came home safely. Not to put a light note on it, we're told one U.S. guy had bloody knuckles from that hand-to-hand combat and other than that everybody came back fine.
[Smerconish:] Barbara, please stand by. I want to emphasize that this is a CNN exclusive. It's a small force. These are the first American boots on the ground in Syria. General Marks, if I could go back to you momentarily. Wouldn't you expect that an operation such as this would have been accomplished with the support of other nations and, if so, which countries?
[Marks:] Clearly Iraq. The operation was based out of northern Iraq, which is the closest point that you'd have to stage. So, the Iraqi government clearly was cognizant and provided not only approval, I would guarantee that they provided layers of support, as well, that would allow the special operators to stage. The special operators have to come into country. If they are in country, they're totally covert, as Barbara described. They would be in very, very briefly and they have to stage and go through some immediate final rehearsals. All that would have to be done with the support, the understanding and the support of the host nation. So the Iraqi government got behind this and supported it completely. We did nothing to try to clear the air space or try to clear anything with the government of Syria. We took full advantage, created a corridor, went from Iraq into Syria and hit the target and came back out as quickly as possible.
[Smerconish:] CNN military analyst Lieutenant General Mark Hertling is standing. General, I'd be thrilled to get your take on this breaking development of what significance the killing of this ISIS leader. 09:10:04
[Lt. Gen. Mark Hertling, Cnn Military Analyst:] Michael, I'll just put it in perspective. When you get a chief financial guy, as Spider has already said, it is huge. It is one of the lines of operations. There are six, according to the national strategy. The economic piece is one of the more important ones. When you're talking about breaking down that network and finding some things out about not only how the money flows but who it flows to, it would be really beneficial to have more information. Special operation forces will pull the strings, not only on what they find from the data collected on the scene and the interrogations it will soon follow, but it will also allow them to go after other targets. A hit like this will allow for many, many more hits and it shows, also, truthfully, that is isn't 10 feet tall like some of us have been saying. They are being defeated. One of the things that I'll just share a combat experience I had when I was commanding northern Iraq in 2007, we hit a key target that really unraveled the financial elements of the Beijing Oil Refinery and how it was supporting Al Qaeda. We not only got the guys that were involved in that but we got the flow. When you get the flow and you know where things are being connected and who else is involved, how the operational commanders are becoming a part of this, what forces it is funding, what kind of weapons manufacturers or transfers that are going on all through the money laundering line, it is a significant
[Smerconish:] General Hertling, is there any individual within the ISIS command, the ISIL leadership whose death, whose execution, such as we're now discussing in Syria could break the back emotionally momentum wise for ISIS or is that just not the way they function?
[Hertling:] Yes, it's not the way they function, Michael. It's a network. You have to go after multiple targets and it's been interesting to both Spider and I when we hear people say "Hey nobody knew who this guy is." I guarantee you on the law somewhere in special operation command or in a computer in a fusion cell somewhere there's not only Abu Sayyaf who is relatively popular among special operators, this is a good hit and a lot of people knew who he was, that are wearing the uniform, but there are multiple other ones just like him. There's been a target package being basically built on this guy, probably for months. I can't say specifically, but I know when you're talking about a key strategic target, there is all kinds of things in this particular target package on Abu Sayyaf and Um Sayyaf they will tell you here's why we want to go after him. Here's why we want to put the resources against it. Whenever you put American lives, on the line, there has to be a high payoff, when you go into Syria. But, boy, there's going to be a huge payoff from this. Financial, informational, operational is the way I would flow it. Everybody's focused on the operational as primary. But, to me, economic and informational are the two areas we need to go more after.
[Smerconish:] General Marks, on a prior mission, we were in Syria. We did temporarily have boots on ground that was a rescue mission. So I guess the standard is that in special circumstances, the president is prepared to authorize the use of special forces but that there won't be a sustained campaign involving U.S. personnel.
[Marks:] Absolutely, Michael. The notion of boots on the ground is really all about trying to establish a presence over a course of time. When you conduct a special operations like this, you are in and you are out as quickly as possible to get the job done. And as Mark has described, this is a significant, very significant, not serendipitous that we killed the CFO of ISIS. This was targeted, this was known and we're not going to be able to take this intelligence and do a lot moving forward in terms of other targets that we can go after. And hopefully as Mark described, the flow can be dried up. It can really really start to pick apart what it is that keeps these guys ticking.
[Smerconish:] CNN senior international correspondent Nick Payton Walsh is standing by in Beirut. Nick, what is the preliminary word from overseas?
[Nick Payton Walsh, Cnn Senior International Correspondent:] According to the Syrian
[Smerconish:] Nick, ISIS, ISIL has proven to be very sophisticated with regard to the use of social media. Has there yet been confirmation from them, from either of those groups as to this assassination, this successful raid?
[Walsh:] Well, ISIS does have media, we haven't heard from that yet, but this is known as the ISIS
[Smerconish:] Nick Paton Walsh, please stay with us. When we come back in a moment, I want to pursue Nick's idea the notion that a drone wasn't used here but rather special forces were sent in. This is a remarkable story. We're glad you're tuned to CNN. When we come back, we'll have the very latest developments in this situation.