[Cuomo:] We have new information for you this morning, word of a motive in the Flight 9525 crash. The German tabloid "Bild" quotes an investigator saying co-pilot Andreas Lubitz feared his medical issues would have grounded him. Prosecutors also revealing Lubitz suffered from, quote, "suicidal tendencies" before his aviation career but never told anybody. So the question is, this policy of self-reporting, is it getting it done? Let's bring in CNN aviation analyst and former inspector general for the U.S. Department of Transportation, Mary Schiavo; also CNN safety analyst and former FAA inspector, David Soucie. Thank you for being here. David, I start with you. I am not as moved help me with this about the fearing that he would be grounded by the vision, the medical issue of the vision, because we're told that he didn't have a vision issue. So do you see this as the substance in and of itself? Or is this proof of him being motivated by some kind of madness?
[David Soucie, Cnn Safety Analyst:] I think it's obviously a madness. It's starting to that we can't detect. See, this is where the problem is. He's trying to reach out and do something, becomes a murderer to be famous. And this is a stretch. This whole idea of the sight in the first place is just another indicator, a symptom, of where he was headed with this.
[Cuomo:] And that's the right word. We're looking for symptoms here, because we understand why he did it but more importantly, Mary, it's about making sure it can't happen again. This self-reporting thing, it seems beyond the pale.
[Mary Schiavo, Cnn Aviation Analyst:] Yes.
[Cuomo:] That you just can't have self-reporting in a situation like this, because every motivation is to lie and conceal, isn't it?
[Schiavo:] Absolutely. And it's been going on for years. And it goes on in the United States. And, you know, everyone wants to keep their job. And it's fudging on things, everything from taking an over-the- counter medicine, to having been on drugs for psychiatric conditions. And then simply not telling the examiner. Remember, even in the U.S., it's self-reporting. There's a question, 47 on the medical exam, where pilots have to answer the question of have they been treated or seen any physician for any psychiatric or psychological condition. And then if they report yes, what happens, even in the United States, is the examiner, the medical examiner just asks them about it. There's still no independent testing. And the drug testing at the airlines is only for illegal substances, like cocaine and marijuana.
[Cuomo:] So how do you explain this? Is this just a culture of ignorance? Is this having to wake up to the realities of mental health and other medical problems? What is it?
[Schiavo:] Well, I think that's right. And wake up to the realities that people are going to do what's necessary to keep their job. And the realities are the same way we address the realities with drug and alcohol. We're going to have we're going to require the airlines to have an entrance psychological exam and then periodic exams, just as we do the medical exam. Given the statistics of the persons who are on some sort of psychological or psychiatric drug, it's reasonable. And then we would add, I would suggest we add, when you do the random drug screens and the initial employment drug screens, you do a full drug array, so you can see if they're on any kinds of medications that they have not reported. Because lying on the form, don't forget, is a felony; it's already a crime. But no one enforces it.
[Cuomo:] Nobody enforces it; nobody is looking. You check yes, they do a little bit. You check no, the question is, David, do they do anything? What if I check all nos on my sheet? Do they do any digging into my background the way, like, a health insurance company would before they, you know, decide to insure me? Or do is there nothing done?
[Soucie:] Why would you dig anymore? Once they said no, the transfer of liability has happened. The airline has done their job. They satisfied all the regulations. They've asked the questions; they've put it in there. The medical examiner has done what he or she is supposed to do. So that's the end of it. And that's where we can't stop. In fact, I agree with Mary, except we need to go even deeper than that. When you want to be a pilot and you want to take the lives of that many people and remember, this isn't just one flight. When you take a flight as a pilot, you're carrying not just those 150 people, but maybe two or three times during the day you were doing that same thing. So this is a very risky situation.
[Cuomo:] Right.
[Soucie:] It's a public hazard. There's no reason we should be digging into the records and make those records exposed. You can't hide behind HIPAA in this situation.
[Cuomo:] Well, they are hiding behind HIPAA. And it's not about stigmatizing mental health. People can be mentally ill, and they're fine. They treat it, and they move along. They're very productive. But you have to check. And Mary, I saw your eyebrows go up when he says David says once they check the nos, there's been a transfer of liability. No there hasn't.
[Schiavo:] Right. Right.
[Cuomo:] This airline has to have a higher level of culpability and responsibility here. And it could happen right here in the United States, too. That's why we bring up the issue, Mary. What's the next step, do you think?
[Schiavo:] Well, I think the next step is for some country, and it should be ours, going back and saying, "Look, the system doesn't work, the self-reporting." And I can tell you, all you have to do is go to the NTSB safety databases and look up crashes and the tox reports on the pilots, to get a feel of how many cases the tox reports reveal that many people are taking substances they aren't reporting to the FAA. And we start in the United States with the FAA, who says right on this medical form that they do not want the medical examiners to be conducting psychological exams, and they don't want the information to be sent to federal agencies. But in fact, they're going to have to do that. And it's one more step that a pilot is going to have to go through. But I think it's very much justified. And then, the liability, by the way, I do have to disagree, because I'm a lawyer. The liability stays with the airline, because the airline's responsible for its employees. So whether or not the employee lies on the form, the airline is still responsible for its pilots. So this should help the airline weed out any problems in the future. They have to do periodic psychological exams.
[Cuomo:] David, I'll let you button it up, because both Mary and I are accusing you of the liability statement, so clean it up for me.
[Soucie:] Right. Well, what I'm talking about the liability is they've done what is required by the regulation.
[Cuomo:] Right.
[Soucie:] I'm not saying that they've shifted any kind of liability at all. I just mean they've done what's required by the FAR, implying that the FAR is what needs to change, the regulation.
[Cuomo:] Right. And what Mary and I would say we've got our lawyer hats on. We're saying there's a duty involved here. And just reading that the guy checked no on every box when he has every motive to lie, right, because that would be the psychosis at play, that's the problem. I'll tell you that bothers us the most here right now. This happened in Germany. It is regrettable. But is the fact that it didn't happen in the United States playing into the lack of action and discussion we're hearing among the administrative agencies who are in charge of this in the United States? Nobody has come out and said anything yet about any changes in light of this. Why not? Mary Schiavo, David Soucie, thank you very much Alisyn.
[Camerota:] Thanks, Chris. Well, the state of Indiana under fire this morning for its controversial new religious freedom law, lawmakers scrambling today to clarify the measure. So what will that look like?
[Pereira:] Prosecution rests in the Boston Marathon bombing trial. Now the defense will get its turn. But did the final prosecution witness already seal Dzhokhar Tsarnaev's fate?