[Jones:] My next guest are governors of two important states that Democrats were trying to win back in 2020. They're hoping to rebuild that blue wall Democrats used to have. Please welcome to THE VAN JONES SHOW, Pennsylvania Governor Tom Wolf and Wisconsin Governor Tony Evers in the House. Both of them at the same time. Two winners. Listen, you are two governors that have been figuring out a way to win as Democrats in states that Trump won so I don't care what anybody else says, you are the experts at how you pull this thing off in these swing states. And the first thing I we've been talking a lot about these racist attacks. How do you think these attacks play in your state and what impact did this kind of behavior from the President is t going to have in 2020? That's a great question. First of all obviously, it was a racist rant on his part. But I think you know, everybody knows that's part of this DNA and so I believe to win Wisconsin, we're going to have focus on issues.
[Gov. Tony Evers:] I think we own the values. I think the Democrats own the values in this race. I'm not diminishing the negativity of Donald Trump and the horrible things he says but we all know that. I mean, we've been witnessing that for several years. We need we need to focus on what people of Wisconsin
[Jones:] But isn't that tough? I mean, you can't really ignore it but you can't focus on it. I mean, you wouldn't counsel that we just give him a pass on this stuff.
[Gov. Tom Wolf:] No, you can't ignore and I agree with Tony. I don't think, it's going to play well in Pennsylvania. We were founded on the basis of tolerance and inclusion. We obviously are not perfect, we have a long way to go but our future does not lie in divisiveness, does not lie in bigotry.
[Jones:] Sometimes I feel like Democrats get so angry with Trump, they say all of Trump supporters, all of his voters are all bigots, are all idiots, are all racists. Is there a danger that saying those kinds of things actually winds up helping Trump.
[Wolf:] Yes, I don't think we are saying that and I don't think we should say that and Tony and I were talking earlier. I think one of the things that we Democrats have to recognizes is that progressive progressivism is actually very pragmatic philosophy. Inclusion is actually smart. The tenets, the central tenets of progressive ideology are actually pragmatically aimed at helping the people that and in too many ways I think, Donald Trump pretended to try to go after in the last election.
[Evers:] There's no reason why, rural Pennsylvania, rural Wisconsin should be Donald Trump territory. It makes no sense.
[Jones:] Why not?
[Evers:] Because the issues that rural Wisconsin are facing are wrong, making sure they have to have good healthcare and good education system that they are they need to have in order to move forward.
[Jones:] But I mean the people keep saying the economy is great. I mean those are kitchen table issues and look, you got unemployment below 4 percent and in your both your states and pushing down close to 3 percent. I mean, how are you going to say we're going to run on kitchen table issues when the economy is going gangbusters.
[Evers:] I just did. I just won on that.
[Jones:] Never mind.
[Evers:] We got 2.8 percent which is unemployment which is really low but we have 800,000 families in the state of Wisconsin that can't afford to have child care, health care and health insurance. Those, I mean, there's people working but they're working 2 or 3 jobs, they're low paid jobs so we've got a long way to go.
[Jones:] Beat him on that.
[Evers:] Absolutely.
[Wolf:] His economic policies certainly haven't helped Pennsylvania farmers. The trade war has hurt farmers who want to export Diary products to Canada, it's hurt the immigration policy that he's promoting hurts farmers who want to use seasonal workers. I mean, just practically it the people he pretended to help, he's really hurting.
[Jones:] You guys sound like, don't say, I like AOC, you sound sort of like just any type of people and so what do you think about like the AOCs and the Bernies and the other people that they are bringing more the fire, man. I mean, isn't that we're supposed to go?
[Evers:] Absolutely but we're
[Wolf:] We're old white guys.
[Evers:] We're old white guys and another wrong one.
[Jones:] Another wrong one there. But how do aren't you worried though.
[Wolf:] It's a big tent Democrats have. I have I have 15 plus people in my primary running for governor and you know, the whole spectrum, right? But you know we pretended that we were so far apart but in actuality it was pretty close. So we had 15 people all across the state, talking about the same thing. A big tent is a good thing, it's not a bad thing.
[Evers:] I think I think part of
[Wolf:] In politics we have to engender some excitement obviously. We have a little challenge in that regard but I think we also have to have to make sure the people are saying we're not just just you know spouting platitudes. We actually really believe that the policies that we support make a difference. And that that that is maybe not as passionate a message or delivered in as exciting away but it's never less true.
[Jones:] Behind the scenes, Democratic governors are worried though that the party is going too far left. Is that a reasonable fear?
[Evers:] Well, I think the fear is around being pragmatic at the end of the day. I think the people of Wisconsin want to see issues resolved and that pragmatism, I think will carry the day but I think anyone of 20 plus that are running for President have to be pragmatic. They have to think about how we're going to get from point A to point
[B. Jones:] Which of these candidates are going to do well in a place like Pennsylvania.
[Wolf:] I think it's still unfolding but again, to
[Jones:] Who do you like?
[Wolf:] I'm staying out of this.
[Jones:] Who do you like?
[Evers:] I'm real happy with every single one of them. I just want every single one of them to come to Wisconsin before the primaries.
[Jones:] Yes, because sometimes people people take you guys for granted.
[Evers:] Absolutely. But they'll energize the base. You know
[Jones:] How are they showing up? Are candidates showing up in Wisconsin?
[Evers:] Well, yes but Donald Trump has been here several times too. We need to have everybody here. This is an important
[Jones:] That blue wall got neglected last time. I am curious to know you talk about the big tent but it can't be good to have a party this divided.
[Wolf:] I don't think the party's divided. I think we're having an open and honest debate. Again, we need to have some excitement. We need to make sure people are watching but we also I think that's the first step to making sure that we are being sensitive in terms of universal health care that I mean, that's a wonderful thing to sell and it's very exciting. It also happens to make perfect sense.
[Jones:] Well, you know and that's actually exactly where a good spot for us to come back to, I want to talk with you when we get back about universal healthcare in the slogan that I think may actually come to bite us in the butt and harm us in 2020. I'll explain when we get back.