[Chris Cuomo, Cnn Host, Cuomo Prime Time:] All right, Anderson, thank you. I am Chris Cuomo. Welcome to PRIME TIME, live from Washington D.C. As one of my guests said, there was this case before today, November 20th, and then a whole new reality after today. So, what mattered, and why? And what happens now? We have power players and people in power here to take it all on, so let's get after it.
[Text:] CUOMO PRIME TIME.
[Cuomo:] Today left a mark in this impeachment inquiry. Why? Well, Gordon Sondland, the President's own hand-picked Ambassador, implicated him directly in the shakedown of Ukraine. And, by the way, that wasn't the end of it.
[Gordon Sondland, U.s. Ambassador To The European Union:] At the express direction of the President of the United States. So, we followed the President's orders. I followed the directions of the President. Was there a quid pro quo? The answer is yes. Everyone was in the loop. It was no secret.
[Cuomo:] "Everyone knew. It was no secret." According to the U.S. Ambassador to the EU, million-dollar donor to Trump's Inaugural, that means Pence, Pompeo, Bolton, Mulvaney, of course Giuliani, of course, of course, the President himself. The day ended with a different type of meaningful moment. The House Intel Committee Chair reflected on the anti-corruption narrative from the President and his defenders.
[Rep. Adam Schiff:] And when Ambassador Sondland testified today that he could put two and two together, and so can we, that there was also a quid pro quo on the military aid that that aid was not going to be released unless they did a public statement, Ukraine did a public statement, of these political investigations, the President wanted, that's not anti-corruption. That is corruption. I want you to do a favor, a a favor. Investigate this crazy 2016 server conspiracy that the server's somewhere in Ukraine. And more ominously, investigate the Bidens. That's not anti-corruption. That is corruption. It's called hypocrisy.
[Cuomo:] An animated, unusually, Adam Schiff. Let's bring in our team, Jen Psaki, Rick Santorum, Michael Smerconish, Jeffrey Toobin. Jeffrey Toobin?
[Jeffrey Toobin, Former Federal Prosecutor, Cnn Chief Legal Analyst, Staff Writer, The New Yorker:] Yes, Sir.
[Cuomo:] At the end of today's testimony, largely on the shoulders of Ambassador Sondland, as a synthesis, it was obvious, it was wrong, it was known, it was worried about, it was arguably abuse of power, and certainly the stuff that was supposed to be investigated as potentially impeachable.
[Toobin:] This was it. I mean this every suspicion of Donald Trump was confirmed today. This was about abuse of power. The question at the heart of this inquiry has always been did the President use his power of the Presidency not to commit perjury, not to rob a bank, but to use the power that only he has in a corrupt way. And today, we know he did, because today we know that the President you held back a White House meeting, and nearly $400 million of taxpayer money, to get dirt on Joe Biden. That's what we learned today beyond any reasonable doubt. And, you know, the Senate and the House are going to have to decide what to do about them.
[Cuomo:] Yes, no, is it a bribe?
[Toobin:] Oh, absolutely.
[Cuomo:] Other poll of opinion, my head-shaking friend on the outside.
[Rick Santorum, Former U.s. Senate Member, Cnn Senior Political Commentator:] Yes.
[Cuomo:] How do you see?
[Santorum:] Look, I I think the Democrats had a had a good had a good morning. I don't think they're I don't think they had a good afternoon. I think what when when the Republicans actually started questioning Sondland about the details, I think it fell apart a little bit, I mean.
[Cuomo:] How so?
[Santorum:] Well he said, you know, the President never said any of these things to him. In fact, what the President said, he quoted what the President said is, "No, there's no quid pro quo." And the the what what he says is why I'm I'm surmising. This is what I'm just sort of gathering, he said, what "Did did anything come from the President?" "No, it came from Rudy Giuliani." Well I mean-
[Cuomo:] And Mulvaney.
[Santorum:] Well, I'm-
[Cuomo:] With the knowledge of Pompeo.
[Jen Psaki, Former White House Communications Director For President Obama, Former State Department Spokesperson, Cnn Political Commentator:] And Pompeo.
[Santorum:] Mulvaney said that, you know, the the-
[Cuomo:] He said exactly that and then hold it back.
[Santorum:] -which he which he walked back, as you know.
[Cuomo:] Well-
[Santorum:] So, the look, the the reality is that I'm just trying to play out what it what where I think the public is, where I think Republicans are, is this just is another example of someone giving their opinion as to what the President's position was. But the President's position clearly stated in the May meeting was, and clearly stated, period, which is he doesn't like foreign aid. He thinks the Ukrainians are corrupt. And he's tired of NATO not paying their fair share. And those are all legitimate reasons not to not to provide the aid.
[Cuomo:] Then-
[Toobin:] And and if you look at the emails, and the text messages, none of that is mentioned. All that's mentioned are Burisma and the and the server. That's the only thing any of these people cared about.
[Santorum:] Well-
[Toobin:] I mean the whole idea that the President is is-
[Santorum:] That-
[Toobin:] -worried about burden-sharing, which was last week's talking point, yes, it's true. But it had nothing to do-
[Santorum:] It's-
[Toobin:] -with his decision. It was not in any of the-
[Santorum:] Well, first of all, it's in it's in-
[Psaki:] And and here's what doesn't-
[Santorum:] -Ron Johnson's letter. It's in it's in the original meeting in May. It's in it's in plenty of places.
[Psaki:] Here's what doesn't make sense, I think, about your argument here.
[Cuomo:] That would be two places. Go ahead.
[Psaki:] A couple things. One is if Gordon Sondland who, as we all know, from all of the reporting, has been going around the world to Ukrainians, Members of Congress, people in the Administration, and saying the President were we're tying military assistance to these investigations, nobody's argued with him, nobody's refuted him, no he hasn't been fired. He's still in his job. He admitted to that today. If that was so wrong-
[Santorum:] Vice President Pence you know, Vice President Pence has pushed back saying that there established by saying-
[Psaki:] No, no, but I I have been a part of carefully writing many statements. That was a carefully written statement where he said they didn't have a private meeting, also that he didn't have a discussion, but he didn't say he didn't know, and he certainly didn't say he wasn't told.
[Santorum:] I look, and as I've said many times, I think there were multiple reasons why the President didn't want to release the aid. Was one of them kicking Joe Biden in the teeth? Probably. But there's nothing illicit about about the fact that all of these other things, which are legitimate reasons to hold back aid-
[Cuomo:] But you only need-
[Santorum:] -were also contemporaneous.
[Cuomo:] But if you rob a bank because you're hungry, because your mother needs something, and because you want to smash a window, and take jewelry, that's the one that sends you to jail, Rick.
[Santorum:] I disagree. I I don't think what the President did was illegal. I mean I've said that from the very beginning. I think it was inappropriate.
[Cuomo:] Well Jeffrey Toobin just said he thinks it could be a bribe.
[Santorum:] But I don't think-
[Cuomo:] But hold on.
[Santorum:] -it's illegal.
[Cuomo:] Let me bring Michael in here because we saw a lot today or heard a lot today on what the President said his main statement was on this. He even wrote notes about it that I want you to see. Listen to this.
[Donald Trump, President, United States Of America:] So, here's my answer. "I want nothing. I want nothing. I want no quid pro quo. Tell Zelensky to do the right thing." Then he says this is the final word from the President of the United States. "I want nothing."
[Cuomo:] Now, his best defense in there is that he is so unfamiliar with the situation that he can't even spell the Ukrainian President's name. He wasn't even close. But-
[Michael Smerconish, Cnn Political Commentator, Cnn Host, "smerconish":] If I'm-
[Cuomo:] -if that's what he says his position is, how do you take it?
[Smerconish:] If I'm committing an act of murder, and shouting, "No homicide," at the same time, I'm not exonerated. Jeffrey's right insofar as all the boxes were checked today for the elements of what Democrats are trying to establish. Rick is correct in making a political argument that at the end of the day, the House, there's no reason why they will not continue with impeachment, and nothing that occurred today will cause 20 Senators, who are Republican to vote for conviction.
[Psaki:] I think that's totally fair. And actually, for Democrats watching today, there were people that I think Democrats were hopeful would be a little more effective, and a little more sympathetic to this.
[Cuomo:] Zero movement. You will get zero votes for articles of impeachment.
[Psaki:] Well-
[Cuomo:] Do you continue forward?
[Psaki:] I think they do because Democrats aren't doing this for political purposes. They're doing this because they don't think a precedent should be set that a President of the United States can bribe another country for a dirt on a political opponent.
[Cuomo:] Rick, do me a favor.
[Santorum:] Well the-
[Cuomo:] Pick your teeth up, and then answer the question.
[Santorum:] -the the the reality is the Democrats have been pushing for impeachment from the very beginning. They've been trying to find a reason. They went through they went through Russia. They went through collusion. They went through obstruction. They went look, they went through the 25th Amendment. I mean they're trying to do anything to get rid of this guy. That's what makes this such a hard reach for them. If this was a de novo type of a of they're they're proceeding along, working nicely with the President, they come-
[Cuomo:] So, if this was the first abusive thing he did-
[Santorum:] This is the first abuse of-
[Cuomo:] -instead of the 11th-
[Santorum:] Well no, but-
[Cuomo:] -they'd be better off?
[Santorum:] -but again, the "Abusive things" he did-
[Cuomo:] Listen, there's more-
[Santorum:] -he was found not to be abusive.
[Cuomo:] -to discuss in the context of what we heard, and what it means. And look, may not be comfortable for all of you. But the idea of where this goes from now, even though you checked the most boxes of wrongdoing today, than you have to date, is a real question. So, please, everybody stick around. You guys have no choice, you do, but please do. The President has a different take on Sondland's testimony. It's all over for him, he says, he was cleared today. We'll test that, next.
[Text:] CUOMO PRIME TIME.