[John Berman, Cnn Anchor:] Tonight, Rudy Giuliani, the president's TV lawyer, is signaling what might be a new tactic when it comes to whether the Trump campaign received advanced warning directly from WikiLeaks of e-mails damaging to the Democrats back in 2016. In a telephone interview today with the Hill, Giuliani says that President Trump had no contact with WikiLeaks, but he claims even if someone inside or associated with the campaign got material directly or indirectly, as long as they weren't involved in hacking, Giuliani says there's no problem.
[Rudy Giuliani, President Trump Attorney:] I don't know if other people contacted with WikiLeaks, but it's hard to understand what the crime would be if they did.
[Berman:] Here to help me sort this out, CNN's chief legal Jeffrey Toobin. So, Jeffrey, Giuliani left open the possibility that other people besides the president may have been in contact with WikiLeaks but says he's not sure what the crime would be, even if they were.
[Jeffrey Toobin, Cnn Chief Legal Analyst:] Well, you know, I think we're really in the end game of preparing for the Mueller report. And I think what Giuliani is doing is he's preparing to make arguments based on the facts that Mueller finds. One of them, it appears, may be that contrary to what they have said earlier, there were contacts between people affiliated with the Trump campaign, perhaps Roger Stone and WikiLeaks, and the question will be, is there anything improper or illegal about that? Giuliani is asserting no. It may be somewhat more complicated than that.
[Berman:] Right. You know, there's an interesting legal question here, which has to do with what is WikiLeaks, correct?
[Toobin:] Right. Absolutely. If you know, someone tells, you know, the Trump campaign that CNN is going to report x, y, and z, and then they get that advanced knowledge, there's certainly nothing improper about receiving that information. WikiLeaks is or is not a journalistic organization. When Pompeo was director of the CIA, he made very clear his view that it was not a journalist organization. It was an arm essentially of the Russian government, which creates a different set of legal questions. In any case, it's also true that the relationship between the Trump campaign and WikiLeaks may have gone beyond simply receiving information from WikiLeaks. There may have been coordination, there may have been collusion to use the famous word. And those facts are actually more important than any sort of advanced spin on the legalities.
[Berman:] And there certainly might be a legal issue, might be a legal issue but there will definitely be political ramifications if that contact took place.
[Toobin:] Especially since the president himself and the Trump campaign and all of its surrogates have been saying for literally years now there were no contacts between WikiLeaks and the Trump campaign.
[Berman:] Which again, to go back to your first answer is why it's so interesting that Rudy Giuliani perhaps in the weeks before a Mueller report comes out is opening the door to the possibility that maybe in fact there were those contacts. I want to get your take since we're talking about Rudy Giuliani on two sort of contradicting statements he gave about whether or not the president would answer more questions from the special counsel. He said this in an interview with the Hill. Listen.
[Giuliani:] We're not answering any more questions from these people. Their outrageous activity we did enough.
[Berman:] So that's what he said out loud. We have the audio there. He spoke to the Daily Beast and said, and I'll give you dramatic reading, "Negotiations haven't formally ended yet. They haven't ended because it's not just my opinion that matters. There are other lawyers involved and the president of the United States, of course. My opinion is, I don't trust them." So we hear him out loud saying, there's no way he's going to answer more questions. And then we read that statement saying, you know, we're still talking about it.
[Toobin:] Yes. I believe the former more than the latter. I don't believe that the president is going to make any more statements. I think he wants to give the impression as he has from the very beginning that Donald Trump feels he has nothing to hide. He wants to answer all the questions. But the lawyers are saying this thing needs to come to an end. The short version is he ain't talking to them. In print, you know, in writing, orally not at all.
[Berman:] I suspect you're right and I think what we're also seeing here is Rudy Giuliani asking more acting more as a flak than a lawyer. He's just filling air time with the Hill, giving interviews and print interviews. And if he contradicts himself, who cares?
[Toobin:] That's been the job since day one. I mean he has been a public relations advocate for the president. Sometimes more effectively than others. Mostly it seems for providing talking points to Fox News so that they can continue offering the defense of the day. But, you know, on the legalities, the former mayor has been had some problems along the way.
[Berman:] All right, Jeffrey Toobin, stick around, if you will because we want to get your insight on another controversy bubbling for the White House. And this goes back to the very start of the administration, the inauguration. It brought galas and glamour and a record shattering price tag. Did donors expect more than just a good time? According to reports, federal investigators are on the money trail looking into that question. Details, next.