[Wolf Blitzer, Cnn Anchor:] President Trump takes his assault on law enforcement institutions to a new level, fueling unproven claims about a spy inside his campaign. Tonight, fired FBI chief James Comey says Mr. Trump is peddling lies that will do lasting damage to the country. Ready for sentencing. New indications tonight that the special counsel is done pumping former Trump campaign adviser George Papadopoulos for information. We're going to tell you what we're learning about that. And lava threat. We're live at the Hawaii volcano, as a burning toxic nightmare shows no sign of ending. Stay right here for up-to-the-minute images of this erupting disaster. We want to welcome our viewers in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in
[The Situation Room. Announcer:] This is CNN breaking news.
[Blitzer:] Breaking tonight, Jared Kushner's lawyer confirming to me just a little while ago that this client was interviewed a second time by the special counsel's team. Abbe Lowell acknowledging that Robert Mueller asked the president's senior adviser and son-in-law about the firing of James Comey and about the Trump campaign's contacts with Russia. Lowell also confirms that Kushner has finally been granted a permanent security clearance 489 days into the Trump administration. I will get reaction from Republican Senator Jeff Flake. He's a member of the Judiciary Committee. And our correspondents and analysts are all standing by. First to CNN chief political analyst Gloria Borger and CNN crime and justice reporter Shimon Prokupecz. Gloria and Shimon, I want to listen to what Abbe Lowell told me in the last hour. So, your client Jared Kushner, he sat down with the special counsel for a second time last month. The interview lasted, what, about seven hours. What was the focus.
[Abbe Lowell, Attorney For Jared Kushner:] So the focus of Jared's cooperation has really been dictated by what the special counsel wants. Back in the fall, they were interested in understanding some of the issues about General Flynn. And he answered all their questions then. And in April, we basically followed their lead and the topics were what were the appropriate topics. You know that they're being thorough in looking at the campaign. And by campaign, the issue that they're investigating is whether there was something called collusion, whatever that means to people. They're looking to see whether there was some undue influence put on by outside countries, particularly Russia. And they have been looking at some of the post-inauguration issues, primarily the firing of James Comey. And, of course, Jared has had roles in the campaign. He was the point of contact for foreign officials for that and also in the transition. And he was around the circumstances that were ultimately led to the firing of Comey. So you can assume that they know their topics, and they would have exhausted all of them.
[Blitzer:] All right, so, Gloria, what's your reaction?
[Gloria Borger, Cnn Senior Political Analyst:] Well, my reaction is that they are being very specific with Jared Kushner, because he was at the nexus of all of the things they're investigating. So, I thought Abbe was pretty candid about what they were asking Jared about, particularly regarding his his meetings with Russians, I would assume. Don't forget he was the point person who we were told wanted to establish a back channel to Russia. He was involved in the campaign and had meetings, and also, of course, dealt with Cambridge Analytica, which has been something that has that has come up time and time again, and also, of course, the question of obstruction and the firing of James Comey, because we know the Jared Kushner was in New Jersey that weekend when the president made his fateful decision to fire the FBI director. Those close to Jared say he just supported it, but had nothing to do with the decision. People who are not close to Jared portray him as driving the decision to fire Comey. So, I'm sure that the special counsel wanted to wait awhile, until he could ask Jared, get a lot of other people's stories about what occurred, and then ask Jared Kushner himself to answer these questions.
[Blitzer:] Shimon, I asked Abbe Lowell if Kushner is a witness, a subject or a target of this investigation. Listen to his response. Has Jared Kushner been told if he's a witness, a subject, a target of the investigation?
[Lowell:] The answer to that is those are words that you guys in the media report, and they make no sense to people who are practicing lawyers, because...
[Blitzer:] These are legal terms, as you know.
[Lowell:] They are not. They exist in the United States attorney's manual for primarily the purpose of telling people when they're supposed to be given their rights before they go into a grand jury or get a subpoena. I have done this for a bunch. And I will tell you that today's witnesses is tomorrow's indicted person. So, I don't ask that question. What I do ask is whether somebody is the focus of the investigation or whether somebody should be expecting more questions. Those are questions that I ask. But these are just the titles that are handy for the media to use. And so I didn't ask. But I would tell you that, in my experience, the kinds of questions they asked, the kinds of statements he made, the kinds of information he has reflects that they understand that he's a witness to the events.
[Blitzer:] Well, that was the question, if he's a witness, a subject, or target.
[Lowell:] Wolf, I simply don't use those terms. I never have.
[Blitzer:] He just said he was a witness. Shimon, what do you make of that?
[Shimon Prokupecz, Cnn Crime And Justice Correspondent:] It's pretty insignificant. First of all, I think we should not lose sight of the fact that having Jared Kushner's attorney come out like this and speak out, it's rare that we ever see him do this. In fact, I think this may be like the only second time that I have actually seen him on television. And I think they felt that they were at a point where they feel pretty comfortable that whatever Robert Mueller has been looking into as it relates to Jared Kushner, that perhaps is somewhat over now. Of course, as Abbe there says, anything can change. The other thing that I think it's important note here is clearly he thinks that Jared Kushner was a witness here. I don't think he would have allowed the special counsel, the FBI agents and those prosecutors to sit there and grill Jared Kushner for some nine hours if he thought that he was a target of the investigation. That would just pretty much be malpractice on Abbe Lowell's part. So, it's clear that he thinks that he's a witness here. And, Wolf, we should remember that what the Russians here were doing, what they were running, what other countries here were trying to do was influence Jared Kushner, was to try and influence the campaign and eventually the president. There was as we have reported, there was outreach by many different countries to Jared Kushner, specifically with the Russians and different people that were had ties to Vladimir Putin to Russia that were meeting with Jared Kushner. I mean, he says it there himself, Abbe Lowell, that when he talks about undue influence by other by other countries. And those are the kind of questions, it seems, that were posed to Jared Kushner, because that is central to one of the main issues that Robert Mueller is still looking at.
[Blitzer:] Yes, Gloria, Abbe Lowell also confirmed that Jared Kushner finally received his permanent security clearance. What would this is something that had been delayed clearly for a long time.
[Borger:] Right. I mean, as we all recall, he had interim clearance longer than anyone at that level that we know about had ever had. But then, in the wake of the Rob Porter scandal, when they sort of redid all the security procedures at the White House, Jared Kushner lost his clearance, along interim clearance, along with a lot of other people. And what Abbe Lowell was saying was after going through the regular procedure, keeping his place in line, not jumping to the head of the line, that Jared was finally granted his security clearance. They have always maintained that the reason he didn't get it in the first place was because of his complicated business, et cetera. But we also know that there is a lot of controversy over the filing of Jared's FS-86 forms, which he had to amend multiple times, because the contacts with the Russians that in fact the special counsel was apparently asking him about in April were not listed on his security clearance forms. And his lawyers have said that initially that was an oversight. But it was really a complication for him, which they had to straighten out. And it looks now as if they have.
[Blitzer:] So, Shimon, in November, he was questioned for two hours, mostly about the firing of Michael Flynn, the national security adviser, in April, seven hours. Now he gets his permanent security clearances. Walk us through the process. The FBI and the intelligence community make recommendations. But, in the end, it's up to the White House to decide specifically, I assume the president can make that decision.
[Prokupecz:] Well, certainly. And the president wanted him to have security clearance. I think this was the big issue all along. And then folks like John Kelly, obviously, they instituted some new policies at the White House. But, in the end, really, Wolf, if the intelligence community, if the FBI was really holding this back and thought that there were still some issues where Jared Kushner shouldn't have security clearance, it's highly likely that he would not have a security clearance. But, ultimately, yes, the president would be the one to decide. And if the president says, we need to figure out a way how to get Jared Kushner security clearance, then that would happen. But, clearly, if you listen to what Abbe Lowell says here, that they went through the proper channels and the right process to get him the security clearance.
[Blitzer:] All right, guys, I want both of you to stand by. Senator Jeff Flake is about to join us as well. Senator, we're going to get to you in a moment. But we're learning more right now but the president's son-in-law, senior adviser. The president is pouring fuel on the conspiracy theory at the same time, that the FBI quote "spied" on his presidential campaign. Just days after he hereby demanded a full-scale investigation, the president appears to have delivered a verdict himself, tweeting about the unsubstantiated claim as though as though it were fact. Let's go to our senior White House correspondent, Pamela Brown. Pamela, the president escalating this new line of attack against the Russia investigation.
[Pamela Brown, Cnn Justice Correspondent:] Yes, that's right, Wolf. Yes, that's right, Wolf. In fact, today, he's calling it a big political scandal, not backing down from his claim that there was a politically motivated spy implanted in his campaign, despite the fact that the president has yet to cite any concrete evidence to back that up.
[Brown:] Tonight, President Trump going farther than ever in attacking America's law enforcement institutions, accusing former President Obama's Justice Department of spying on his presidential campaign.
[Donald Trump, President Of The United States:] I hope it's not so, because, if it is, there's never been anything like it in the history of our country. I hope I mean, if you look at Clapper, he sort of admitted that they had spies in the campaign yesterday, inadvertently. But I hope it's not true, but it looks like it is.
[Brown:] Trump referring to comments from former Director of National Intelligence James Clapper. But what Clapper actually said wasn't that Trump's campaign was spied on, but that the FBI was in fact watching Russia.
[Question:] Was the FBI spying on Trump's campaign?
[James Clapper, Cnn National Security Analyst:] No, they were not. They were spying on a term I don't particularly like but on what the Russians were doing, trying to understand, were the Russians infiltrating, trying to gain access, trying to gain leverage and influence, which is what they do.
[Question:] So, why doesn't he like that?
[Brown:] The president seizing on the mischaracterization nonetheless tweeting, with certainty: "Look how things have turned around on the criminal deep state. They go after phony collusion with Russia, a made-up scam, and end up getting caught in a major spy scandal, the likes of which this country may never have seen before." That after ordering the DOJ to open classified files to congressional review.
[Trump:] They're going to all be in the room tomorrow. We're going to see what happens. What I want is, I want total transparency.
[Brown:] FBI Director Christopher Wray, Director of National Intelligence Dan Coats, and Department of Justice official Ed O'Callaghan will brief just two lawmakers, Republican Congressmen Devin Nunes and Trey Gowdy, leaving Democrats with no seat at the table and no way of knowing what information will be shared.
[Sen. Mark Warner , Virginia:] My hope would be that any such move needs to be both bipartisan. And my hope and prayer is that the FBI or the Department of Justice would not in any way be forced to reveal confidential information. That would go against 75 years of practice.
[Brown:] Former FBI Director James Comey blasting the president for the order, tweeting: "The FBI's use of confidential human sources, the actual term, is tightly regulated and essential to protecting the country," adding, "Attacks on the FBI and lying about its work will do lasting damage to our country." Trump's response?
[Trump:] We're not undercutting. We're cleaning everything up. This was a terrible situation. What we're doing is, we're cleaning everything up. It's so important. What I'm doing is a service to this country. And I did a great service to this country by firing James Comey.
[Brown:] The whole episode has further soured an already complicated relationship between Trump and Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein. But both greeted each other warmly today at an immigration roundtable in New York, where Trump doubled down on calling MS-13 gang members animals.
[Trump:] I called them animals the other day. And I was met with rebuke. They said they are people. They are not people. These are animals.
[Brown:] This as Trump's attorneys try to narrow the scope of a potential interview between the president and special counsel Robert Mueller. Multiple sources familiar with the matter tells CNN Trump's legal team wants any interview with Mueller to only focus on matters occurring before Trump became president, which would effectively eliminate questions related to obstruction of justice.
[Blitzer:] Pamela Brown with that report. Thank you, Pamela, very much. Joining us now, Republican Senator Jeff Flake. He is a key member of the Judiciary and Foreign Relations Committees. Senator, thanks so much for joining us. There's lots to discuss. But let me get your quick reaction to these new details we just heard from Jared Kushner's lawyer. What do you think when the president what did you think, first of all, to what Abbe Lowell, Kushner's lawyer, told us?
[Sen. Jeff Flake , Arizona:] I don't have any window into that. I just know that Mueller is a professional. He's doing things methodically, as he should. And I trust him. But I don't have any window into the Kushner issue there.
[Blitzer:] What do you think when the president uses the phrase criminal deep state?
[Flake:] Well, I think that that is completely unfair, and it's not good to sully our institutions like that without proof. And having a briefing that includes only Republicans is no way to have transparency. If you're going to have transparency, then involve both parties. So I hope that the president reconsiders. If there's a meeting or briefing just with Republicans in there, it will do nothing to shed any light, if light needs to be shed on this topic. But I have seen no evidence that there is spying on the Trump campaign. It's just simply the FBI following leads on, was Russia involved or fought? And I think it was appropriate, from what I have seen. But, boy, if there's a briefing, it ought to involve both parties.
[Blitzer:] Yes, a lot of people, including several of your Republican colleagues, agree. You just delivered a pretty scathing speech at Harvard Law School's class day. You said, among other things and I will put it up on the screen "Our presidency has been debased by a figure who has a seemingly bottomless appetite for destruction and division and only a passing familiarity with how the Constitution works. The Congress is utterly supine in the face of the moral vandalism that flows from the White House daily. Simply put, we may have hit bottom." All right, tell us our viewers what made you say that.
[Flake:] Well, I think that our presidency has been reduced. When we have the president calling for the jailing of defeated political opponents calling his opponents losers and clowns, then the presidency has been debased or reduced. That's what it means. And for Congress, we need to stand up and reclaim our constitutional prerogative, whether it's passing immigration reform or authorization for use of force. We shouldn't continually say, we will pass what the president wants. We should pass what we think we should do and ask the president to sign it. He can either sign it or veto it. But we have given far too much. And I think that it's time for the Congress to stand up.
[Blitzer:] The president is also making some very serious accusations that President Obama, former CIA Director John Brennan, among others, were abusing their power to go directly after him. Do Republicans have a responsibility to challenge the president when he makes these kind of accusations?
[Flake:] Yes, we do. And Republicans have a responsibility when the president says, I'm just going to brief Republicans, to say, no, that's not how it goes, particularly when you're talking about defense, intelligence, national security, those kind of issues. You know, we work in a bipartisan basis. That's the only way to do it, particularly in the Senate. And so we have a responsibility as Republicans to say, that's not how we do it, Mr. President. That's not how you should do it either.
[Blitzer:] If the president does convince his supporters, though, his base, that the entire Justice Department, the FBI, the intelligence community, they were all out to get him and that seems to be the narrative that he's trying to get sunk in what happens when we finally see Robert Mueller's findings?
[Flake:] Well, that's what I mentioned in my speech, is seemingly bottomless appetite for division, to play off members of Congress against each other, the parties against each other, and to divide. And so I hope that, when Bob Mueller continues his investigation, which I hope he does, and produces his report, that it's something that brings us together. And I don't know what's he's going to come up with, but I have confidence in him. And I think we ought to all have confidence in our system.
[Blitzer:] Senator Flake, thanks so much for joining us.
[Flake:] Thank you.
[Blitzer:] Just ahead, we will have more on the breaking news, what we're learning from Jared Kushner's lawyer about his client's second interview with the special counsel, and what that could mean as the investigation goes forward. And we're also tracking the exploding volcano danger in Hawaii. CNN is live on the Big Island as the lava gushes and overflows.