[Baldwin:] All right, new findings just in to CNN about Democratic presidential candidate Beto O'Rourke. CNN's KFILE found that the former Texas congressman once called for significant spending cuts and tax increases to address the United States' quote "extravagant government" and quote "out-of- control debt." They just hit publish on CNN.com. Andrew Kaczynski is with me from KFILE. And so this is a man who would like to be president who has been short on policy substance. This is what he suffered so far as far as criticism. And so what does he say when it comes to spending?
[Andrew Kaczynski, Senior Editor, Cnn Kfile:] So, at this time, it's actually it's pretty interesting, because we sort of talk about the lack of policy specifics. When he was running in this race, he sort of he hit his opponent for not choosing like which specific cuts he would want to make to the federal government. He said, we need to look at things like Social Security means-testing, raising the retirement age, sorts of stuff that might be a little out of step with the current Democratic primary.
[Baldwin:] OK. So, specifically, this is it sounds to me what you're saying is that unlike what we're seeing currently with the Democratic base and his contenders, who have moved further left, that this would be at odds with what his base would want to hear now?
[Kaczynski:] A little bit at odds, yes.
[Baldwin:] Yes.
[Kaczynski:] Some of the one of the plans he specifically cited was Simpson-Bowles, which was that deficit reduction plan from the commission that President Obama set up. And that sort of looked at tax increases, domestic and military spending cuts, means-testing for Medicare, raising the retirement age. And that was just one specific plan that he said we should look at.
[Baldwin:] And when did he say this, the context of this?
[Kaczynski:] In 2012.
[Baldwin:] 2012.
[Kaczynski:] And the thing that's actually interesting is, we asked his people for comment about it. And they said that he no longer believes in raising the retirement age for Social Security.
[Baldwin:] That's interesting that that's what they're saying. We will for some perhaps some comments from the former congressman himself. Andrew Kaczynski, thank you. We will go to CNN.com to read the whole thing. So, let's start there. Tara Setmayer is with me, former Republican congressional communications director. And Keith Boykin is here, Democratic strategist. And both Tara and Keith are CNN political commentators. And let me begin, actually, Keith with asking you about what Andrew and KFILE is reporting. And I'm curious just to my point about, you know, where the Democratic base is right now, do you think he will have some explaining to do?
[Keith Boykin, Cnn Political Commentator:] Well, this is the first time I have heard those statements, Brooke, and I don't think those statements in terms of raising the retirement age and some of the cuts to entitlement programs would be very popular with the Democratic base and Democratic primaries. If he's talking about cutting from the $700 billion defense budget, then you would probably have a lot more support of that in the Democratic Party. But I think it's just a reflection we just don't know a lot about Beto O'Rourke or any of the candidates yet because we haven't had debates. We're still almost a year away before we have any sort of presidential primary or caucus vote. I think people should slow down a bit. Get a chance to learn a little bit more about the candidates before we rush to judgment about which one we like or don't like and let's hear them speak and hear their thoughts fleshed out in a real debate.
[Baldwin:] Staying on 2020 here, Tara, this is for you, because there are all these new notions that are coming out. You just heard the president being asked at the White House about this Democratic notion of expanding the U.S. Supreme Court. Here's another idea that actually came about out of our CNN town hall last night with Senator Elizabeth Warren. Roll it.
[Sen. Elizabeth Warren , Presidential Candidate:] You know, come a general election, presidential candidates don't come to places like Mississippi. Yes. They also don't come to places like California and Massachusetts, right, because we're not the battleground states. Well, my view is that every vote matters. That means get rid of the Electoral College and everybody counts.
[Baldwin:] Tara, make your case of why that is not a good idea.
[Tara Setmayer, Cnn Political Commentator:] Well, first of all, we're a republic, not a democracy. And our founding fathers did that for a reason, because they didn't want the tyranny of the majority, which is what would happen if you went to a direct democracy vote. Guess what? Elizabeth Warren wouldn't be in Jackson, Mississippi, if that were the case either because that's not where the votes are. She'd be in California, New York and Texas. Also, when you look at it with the different movements, I know that there's some expansion of this movement now. You have I think 11 states that are saying this national populist vote movement. Colorado just joined. This is where also an example of where state legislators matter, because states have to are the ones that are really in control of their electoral votes and what they do with them. Maine and Nebraska have decided to split their electoral votes. Most other states are winner take all. Now you have this movement where you have some states that are saying, well, we might have a proportional representation of our electoral votes, but you still there's a lot that would have to happen in order for that to change. Plus, you would need a constitutional amendment change to get rid of the Electoral College in the way that these people want to do it. You would also create the potential of getting rid of two parties. You could have 25 parties if you want. You could win by plurality, not necessarily by a majority. There's a lot of problems with the idea of getting rid of the Electoral College. It's great for an applause line and for people who don't really understand why the founding fathers decided they wanted to have smaller states represented in certain ways and why we have two a bicameral Congress, but, in practicality, I think it would be a disaster and it would take an enormous effort to change the Electoral College, including constitutionally.
[Boykin:] I completely disagree. First of all, it doesn't take a constitutional amendment to change it. The National Popular Vote Interstate Compact would allow the states themselves to determine the Electoral College vote based on the popular vote winner.
[Setmayer:] And that would be challenged.
[Boykin:] As you already mentioned, we already have it's now 13 states I believe and the District of Colombia, if you include that, have already signed on to this popular vote compact. What it does, though, is, it encourages candidates to campaign everywhere, like Elizabeth Warren said. Right now, if you look a state like Florida, in the 2016 election, there were 71 campaign events in Florida. There were zero in Alabama, zero in North Dakota and South Dakota, zero in Arkansas and Alabama, zero in Oklahoma. The reason why is that 94 percent of the campaign events were focused on 12 swing states. That's not democratic. It's not representative of where the country is, and that's not the way we should elect our leaders. Even if you want to say this is a republic and not a democracy, as Tara said, even in a republic, you still have a majority vote, a majority will, the will of the most people, not the fewest vote.
[Setmayer:] ... are represented, though.
[Boykin:] Just remember this, though. Twice in the past 20 years, in the past two decades, the candidate who lost the popular vote, who got fewer votes than the other candidate won the presidency, first with Al Gore in 2000 and second with Hillary Clinton in 2016.
[Setmayer:] It doesn't matter. It's not how our system works.
[Boykin:] And it almost happened to George W. Bush in 2004 if a shift of 60,000 votes in Ohio had changed would have changed the election so John Kerry would have ended up being president.
[Baldwin:] It was Bush in '04 who was the last Republican to win the popular vote. Tara, I want you to respond. And then I do, speaking of Republican, I want to get on to John McCain. But I want to give you a second to respond.
[Boykin:] Sure. Yes, no, look, the other side of this is that, it sounds really good, but we have never our system has never been based nationally on one person, one vote. It's not. That's not how the founding fathers wanted it. We also had three-fifths of the vote, though, Tara, remember, for black people?
[Setmayer:] That's a different discussion. That's a different discussion. That's not what we're dealing with today.
[Boykin:] It's a part of the same relic of the Constitution from the 18th century, though.
[Setmayer:] So you think the Constitution is a living document and we should amend it then. Then let the states do that. We have a system to do that. A direct democracy vote would X-out minority and smaller states.
[Boykin:] That's just not true.
[Baldwin:] Let's end on something where I yes, I think we're both going to agree and then this is just continuously disgraceful. This is yet another swipe that President Trump took at the late Senator John McCain. This is as recent as this afternoon. Watch.
[Question:] Why are you attacking Senator John McCain [OFF-MIKE] months after his death?
[Trump:] I'm very unhappy that he didn't repeal and replace Obamacare, as you know. He campaigned on repealing and replacing Obamacare for years, and then it got to a vote, and he said thumbs down. And our country would have saved a trillion dollars. And we would have had great health care. So, he campaigned. He told us hours before that he was going to repeal and replace. And then, for some reason, I think I understand the reason, he ended up going thumbs up. And, frankly, had we even known that, I think we could have gotten the vote, because we could have gotten somebody else. So, I think that's disgraceful. Plus, there are other things. I was never a fan of John McCain and I never will be.
[Baldwin:] Never a fan of John McCain, never will be. Tara, we can agree. Here he is in the Oval Office. It's totally disrespectful, but why can't he seem to let McCain go?
[Setmayer:] Look, he's had a bee in his bonnet for John McCain for decades, going back to the '90s, actually, where he questioned John McCain's service. It's very obvious what's going on here. Donald Trump doesn't like anyone who doesn't like him or who stands up to him and he also could never measure up to the man that John McCain is. I didn't agree with John McCain on everything, even as a Republican, but, as a hero, as an American hero in this country, that is unequivocal. What this man endured and the sacrifices he made for the service of this country is unmatched. And Donald Trump is a silver spoon draft-dodger that doesn't understand that level of service or honor or courage. So, this is just a sad display of a man who is very insecure, that can't the fact that someone that is more courageous, more honorable, more decent than he could ever be still did something to stand up to him in principal. He just can't it. And it is a disgrace and it is beneath the office of the presidency. But he's not going to stop. This is who he is.
[Boykin:] I agree.
[Baldwin:] I know you agree, Keith. Disgraceful all the way around.
[Boykin:] I agree with Tara on this issue.
[Baldwin:] Yes. Keith and Tara, guys, thank you very much. We're going to leave it right there.
[Setmayer:] Thank you.
[Baldwin:] And just a reminder to all of you, don't miss the CNN presidential town hall with 2020 candidate John Hickenlooper. Dana Bash will be moderating that one with the former Colorado governor. That is live tomorrow night at 10:00 Eastern. Coming up next: President Trump weighs in on a $250 million lawsuit filed by Republican Congressman Devin Nunes over a series of parody Twitter accounts that criticized him. But does he have a case? We will be right back.