[Quest:] Welcome back to its Quest Means Business we are in Abu Dhabi this evening. To our top story of course, it's the worsening diplomatic military relationships between Russia and Turkey following the downing of the Russian warplane. Matthew Bryza, is a former U.S. Ambassador to Azerbaijan. He's also a Senior Fellow at the International Affairs the Atlantic Council, who joins me now live from Istanbul. Matthew, the core crux of this is whether or not it is in Putin's or Erdogan's best interest to somehow bury this dispute or to let it fester or to make it worse. What's your gut feeling?
[Matthew Bryza, Former U.s. Ambassador To Azerbaijanl:] My gut feeling is both leaders want to get this crisis past them.
[Bryza:] And you can see that in the measured tone both have been following in Becky Anderson's interview of President Erdogan. But also in President Putin's own statements no Russian statements yet have been that the Turkey shoot down was considered an act of war. Putin has called it a stab in the back. The Russian military called it an unfriendly act. But the rhetoric has been remarkably restrained which shows to me, both leaders would like to move on.
[Quest:] And if we put this in pardon since we are a business program, we need to put it in commercial trade terms. The multibillion dollar bilateral relationship, it has to suffer in some extent. There has to be an exacted price for what's happened by form of sanctions or some form of restrictions, doesn't there?
[Bryza:] Yes, there does. President Putin, I'm sure, feels he has to look strong, has to look tough for domestic reasons so that so he continues to maintain his image as such a strong leader. And we certainly won't see any cancellation from the Russian side of the $20 billion nuclear power plant that Russia has won a contract for. So there'll be some reactions by Russia but I think they're going to be limited.
[Quest:] Matthew, finally, one thing, when I heard about the Russian plane being brought down, the first thought was there was there was an inevitability that eventually either through friendly fire or some form of mishap, there are so many militaries now fighting over the scorched earth of Syria whether it's U.S., whether it's Russia, whether it's Turkish planes, whether it's the French, the British if they come along on board. Was it inevitable that something like this was going to happen?
[Bryza:] I think you're absolutely right that the chances were high of something like this happening because of the crowded air space. However, Washington and Moscow have been working hard to try to de- conflict and to make sure or to reduce the chances something like this wouldn't happen. Let's broaden the scope a little bit. I think something like this was inevitable somewhere along the periphery of NATO because for the past year Russian military aircraft have been violating the air space of a wide range of NATO member states including the United States but also the United Kingdom, Norway and the Baltic states. And in one in a couple of cases, Russian military aircraft without their transresponders on almost collided with civilian aircraft over the Baltic Sea. So some sort of action like this I think was inevitable somewhere in the NATO space. It happened, President Putin has been poking and probing and let's just hope that this is the incident that finally convinces him to back off. And one more point I would add is NATO has said and the Turks have said that the Russian military aircraft was bombing Turkmen. These are ethnic Turks, on the Turkish, on the Syrian side of the SyriaTurkish border. President Putin understands how sensitive the protection of ethnic kin are because he has used that argument to justify the invasion of Ukraine. So I think President Putin knows he's probed too far.
[Quest:] Sir, thank you for joining us.
[Bryza:] Thank you.
[Quest:] The British bank Barclays has been handed $109 million fine. It's the penalty so say the regulators for ignoring rules on vetting wealthy customers. Because it wanted to win what one Barclay's manager called, the deal of the century. The sum involved was nearly $3 billion. The deal that was involved was so secret that Barclays bought a new safe just to hold the paperwork. And that safe incidentally very few people knew its location in the Barclays headquarters. According to the British authorities, the Watchdog, Barclays didn't bother finding out the source of the money, they didn't do enough vetting. It opened and closed quickly offshore accounts to process the transactions. It didn't enter client's names on computers where they would normally be stored.. And remember banks are obliged to check the origin of large sums to detect possible money laundering. Barclay says there's no evidence any crime was committed, but if you look at the facts, they clearly didn't do the full due diligence on both the client or indeed where the money was coming from. Jeffrey Robinson, the British Banker's Association has called in the world's most important financial crime author. And he says that there's a problem with the fine even at this elevated level of $109 million. Which Jeffrey, which the FSA, the authority, they tripled the specifically because they said they wanted it to be a deterrent. And I can almost hear you gafforing and snorting, as I say that.
[Jeffrey Robinson, Author:] Yes, you can, Happy Thanksgiving, by the way. Richard, the problem is the fine is lunch money for these banks, that's all it is. Now this is the seventh time that Barclays has been fined since 2009 by first the FSA, the Financial Services Authority and then now the FCA, the Financial Conduct Authority. When the FSA, which was completely useless, became the FCA, they covered it with a nice coat of paint and scotch taped up the holes in the walls and that's about all. Because the FCA has now proven to be equally useless than the FSA. When you fine these banks and they still don't get the message to stop, you've got to ask can yourself why. And the answer is because they are making so much money doing it.
[Quest:] Now as I looked at this particular case, the worrying part is it comes after the great recession and the crisis. The dates involved 2011 and '12, this should have been time when everybody was more vigilant on questions of ethics. So in your view, Barclays are either stupid or they did it on purpose.
[Robinson:] Well, of course. I mean Banks can make mistakes and they cannot check off all the proper boxes and you say, well, they should have known better. They made a mistake. They were stupid. No, they did this deliberately. Those bankers knew exactly what they were doing. But I ask other questions. I say who were those people who had the 1.9 billion pounds and why did they need to hide their money in such a way. Now if it's money laundering, that's one thing, if it's terror financing that's something else, if it's tax evasion, that's something else. But from the bankers' standpoint, it's aiding and abetting a crime. Because there's got to be a crime somewhere along the line. The FCA said no we're not charging criminally.
[Quest:] So ultimately, I mean it's hard to suggest, and I'm going to argue against you here. It's hard to suggest that somebody should perhaps get locked up for this particular case when at best rules may have been broken, but there is no there is no evidence here Jeffrey of criminality.
[Robinson:] Aiding and abetting. It's not the criminality of the bankers. What was where did the money come from? Was it corruption money? These apparently these were what's known as PEPs, Political Exposed Persons, which then the banks are not supposed to take. So what are they aiding and abetting? Is it money stolen from a national treasury someplace? Is it money that's been laundered through a nefarious thing. You know Richard it's a simple thing, seven fines didn't work because they are doing it. They did it again. When you take these bankers one by one and you put them in an orange jump suit and you put them in a 6 by 4 cell with a guy named Bruno who's got two fang tattoos on the side of his neck, that gets bankers attention very fast. That puts an end to it.
[Quest:] And you, sir, have given us a Thanksgiving vision that I think most of us will take away. Have a Happy Thanksgiving Jeffery.
[Robinson:] Thank you, sorry you're not joining us, there's always turkey at the table for you.
[Quest:] I'm looking forward to it next year. When we come back, we will talk about that. A traditional parade in New York and then a shopping bonanza. In the U.S. Black Friday sales get underway on Thanksgiving. We'll show you how retailers have been getting ready. The stores in many cases will be opening within the next hour or two. Its Quest Means Business, we're in Abu Dhabi tonight, good evening.