[Richard Quest:] No trading in New York or in the United States, it's the Memorial Day holiday weekend, and it's still Monday, it's the 25th of May. Tonight, Greece's finance minister tells me, we can pay the IMF, but only if there is a deal. Nigeria's outgoing finance minister will give her view on the country's fuel crisis. And Varoufakis and a college from Princeton pay tribute to the game theorist John Nash, who died over the weekend. I'm Richard Quest, tonight, live from Los Angeles, where I mean business. Good evening from Los Angeles. Tonight we hear from the Greek finance minister, who says that Greece can pay the IMF only if there is a deal. Greece owes the International Monetary Fund more than $1.7 billion in loan repayments over the month of June. And the country's interior minister warned that Greece wouldn't have the money and, as had been said before, would prioritize paying civil servants and pensioners instead. In the quote of the minister, "This money will not be given, it is not there to be given," said the interior minister. A short while ago, I spoke to Yanis Varoufakis, who joined me from Athens, and I put that quote fairly and squarely to the minister and asked him if he agrees.
[Yanis Varoufakis, Greek Finance Minister:] I'm chronically optimistic, so my answer to the question will be colored by the optimism, and I shall say that we will make the payment, because I have no doubt that we will have an agreement by then with the institutions, our partners in Europe, the IMF, and so on and so forth.
[Quest:] But the payment of this money to the IMF in June is dependent, if I understand you correctly, on an agreement being reached.
[Varoufakis:] An agreement has to be reached. This state cannot continue to make repayments to creditors as part of a loan agreement which was meant to be based on both our making the payments and them making the disbursements.
[Quest:] Is it fair to say that Greece is just about out of money?
[Varoufakis:] No, it isn't. Our state our state, out of huge sacrifices by the Greek people, has managed to live within its means.
[Quest:] I suppose I am inviting you to comment on one of your cabinet colleagues, but is it helpful when the interior minister does make those sort of comments, basically saying to the rest of the world, do a deal or there's no repayment. It's ratcheting up the pressure.
[Varoufakis:] Not in the slightest. As I said, it is common knowledge. Everybody knows amongst our partners and friends and the institutions that the Greek state cannot carry on making large payments to he IMF without an agreement. Mr. Voutsis, my colleague from the cabinet, the interior minister, simply repeated something I've said on a number of occasions, and what I've said is just common sense. We have for four months been meeting our obligations to our creditors by extracting the last ounce of liquidity from our battered economy's fiber. We can't carry on doing this forever, and our creditors know that. So, it's about time they come to the table and meet us, not half the way, but one quarter of the way. We've already met them three quarters of the way. It's about time the institutions, in particular the IMF, get their act together and come to an agreement with us.
[Quest:] Let's talk about that meeting on the way. I read a recent article that you've just written, and I hesitate to use the words "red lines," because it seems these days everybody has red lines all over the place. But in this particular case, it would appear your red, red line, if you like, is the pensions question. And if you cannot if it becomes a choice or your dragooned into cutting pensions, you won't do it. Is that the sticking point, pensions?
[Varoufakis:] It is a sticking point, it's not the sticking point. The sticking point is, as I said in an article that I wrote only this morning, which you may be referring to, the sticking point is austerity. Greece has had the greatest dose of austerity of any economy after the second World War. We are the champions of fiscal consolidation and austerity, and the result is a collapsed economy. We can't have more of that, Richard. We need growth now.
[Quest:] The reality is, sir, the reality is you are now at a position where it appears the eurogroup are determined to stare you down, and you are in a position which is very difficult. And it's and having covered this from the beginning, I can't see how you get out of it without more pain.
[Varoufakis:] Well, this country has experienced a great deal of pain, and if it is simply a matter of investing into a little bit more pain in order to get the gain, I will be happy to do it. The difference of opinion, it's not with my eurozone member state colleagues, it's primarily with one or two of the institutions, actually one. The point I want to make, Richard, and I think every well-meaning member of our audience would agree, is whatever extra pain there is should be an investment into a turnaround.
[Quest:] You have opened a hornet's nest, minister, with your revelation that you record, your words, your interventions so that you can better recount them to your prime minister. Can you accept that others who will have attended those meetings will find that improper?
[Varoufakis:] I don't think they do find it improper. There's nothing improper about one minister recording his own speeches so as to be able to recount them. I haven't recorded anybody else's speeches, only mine. And what I think this revelation has probably done is firstly to throw light on the rather improper way that that the international press has been reporting that eurogroup meeting. And secondly, to reveal the fact that we don't have minutes. We should have minutes, shouldn't we, Richard?
[Quest:] Right.
[Varoufakis:] Transparency should be part of any democratic process.
[Quest:] In your article that you referred to earlier, you said that the motivation of those is in question and is best left to future historians. Do you believe there are people, institutions that want Greece out of the eurozone? Because I question my fundamental question is, what are you suggesting is their motivation?
[Varoufakis:] Well, actually, what I was referring to was the lack of transparency in various fora, like, for instance, the eurogroup. And also the motivation of those who leaked lies and innuendoes, and of the international press of renowned news media that reported upon them as if they were facts. So, this is the motivation that I was referring to, and I think that - I know that from having watched your program on a number of occasions over many years, that you would also be worried about this kind of mass reproduction of lies and innuendoes, wouldn't you?
[Quest:] Right, but well, but do you well, we try to avoid lies and those sort of things on the program, as perhaps you might expect. But do you believe there are people who wish either Greece or will or wish Greece out?
[Varoufakis:] Maybe. I have no way of knowing. What I do know is that it is in the interest of no one if Greece is forced out of the eurozone. It is in the interest of no one in Europe, indeed, it is exactly the opposite true, that it is in the interest of the average European that this Greek crisis ends. And the only way it can end is with Greek growth and development so that Greece can repay its debts and Europe can show that it can deal with a crisis in a rational manner and not in a disciplinarian fashion that applies a kind of Biblical economics that really doesn't work.
[Quest:] That's the Greek finance minister, Yanis Varoufakis, talking to me earlier. And you can hear more of Mr. Varoufakis later in the program as he gives his thoughts and remembers the life of John Nash, an economist who had a great influence on Mr. Varoufakis, and of course who was the founder, if you like, the creator of the so-called Game Theory. You'll hear his views on that later in tonight's program. The stock markets were closed in the UK and Germany, as indeed they have been in the United States. And those markets that were opened were down for very heavy losses in Greece and Spain. The Athens general was down more than 3 percent for obvious reasons following the interior minister's comments that the government won't make debt payments. The IBEX fell two and a third percent, and that was all about local election upsets with the anti-austerity parties. It's a spillover, if you like, from the Greek issues. The voters are punishing the governing party for the spending cuts. Staying with matters in Europe, the British prime minister, David Cameron, has begun his effort, in his words, to negotiate what he's calling a better deal for Britain within the European Union. Mr. Cameron is meeting the European Commission president, Jean-Claude Juncker, at Cameron's weekend home at Chequers. Our senior international correspondent, Nima Elbagir, is in London. Now, they will be doing an extremely good job, Nima, of papering over differences, certainly bearing in mind Cameron never wanted Juncker in the job. But the fact is, he everyone accepts Cameron has a mandate, and now the EU has to negotiate.
[Nima Elbagir, Cnn Senior International Correspondent:] Absolutely. You can't accuse David Cameron of being lacking in ambition. To start his proposed charm offensive towards EU reform, towards what the UK is calling EU reform, I should say, with Jean-Claude Juncker, it's pretty bold. But taking him down the Chequers, to that grand estate, it's a good start. Downing Street are saying they're not getting into any specifics in this working dinner, but they will be setting the scene. They're outlining what it is Britain wants from the European Union. And what they want goes to the heart of the founding tenant of the European Union, which is freedom of movement. They want to control the movement of EU migrants into the UK, and they also want to be allowed to set limits on when EU migrants can claim benefits. These this is not something that's particularly popular with the leaders in Europe, as you know. Angela Merkel, the German chancellor, has said that this is an unacceptable picking apart of that central tenant, but she is next on that charm offensive list. Well, no, sorry, Hollande is next, and then from there, he's hopping over to Berlin to see if he can try and change her mind.
[Quest:] And of course, it is ultimately in Berlin that an agreement will have to be reached. Nima, thank you very much. We'll be watching that. And that's a story that's going to be with us for some months, if not years, to come. A crippling fuel shortage in Africa's largest economy is now nearing its end. Nigeria's finance minister has accused the fuel companies of holding the country hostage. You're going to hear from her and how she helped end the crisis. It's QUEST MEANS BUSINESS. Good evening to you.