[Christian Purefoy, Cnn Correspondent:] And, you know, across that campus you can see, you know, even from the outside, [inaudible] outside of the battle that went on, tank trucks going through the have sent into the campus. And the Kenyan military really did respond quite quickly to this attack. But yes but, you know, one of the things they want to try and find out, who is the ring leader of this crime. Now, obviously, that's going to take some time. The campuses so it has been knocked down as the investigation continues and the ambulance and the security services begin to deal with, as you said, the aftermath, recovering the bodies and trying to, you know, identify them for their families. Ashleigh.
[Ashleigh Banfield, Cnn:] Christian, if I can just ask you, look, it was only just 2013, two years ago, that we lived through the horrors of the attack of the Westgate mall in Nairobi, Kenya. Weren't there enormous lessons to be learned about response to a terror attack? So many more people died than needed to die in that attack and now we're seeing on the heels of that, an attack that took out almost 150 people.
[Purefoy:] Yes. And, you know, that is one of the, I think, is going to emerge from these investigations. You know, what exactly happen and the details, Ashleigh, is still very much it does appear that this time the Kenyan security forces did respond quickly. But also, unlike last time, this time there was no siege. They immediately went in to try and take out this threat unlike in Westgate where there was a lot of security in this sometime of many days. So, this was this is 14 instead of 15 hours and security force went in the problem Ashleigh dealing with threats like this. You know, look at the town on Somalia where this means must be is it's a four hour drive from the long course borders Somalia, the stronghold of Al-Shabaab terrorist. And they can, you know, they can come go come and go as they want and how the Kenyan forces, actually, begin to try pre owns thier attacks, is the real challenge. You know, if you get it here on the ground, they did that within, you know, a couple of hours. But it's, actually, that just been too late, you know. What they need to try and do is preemptive evac Ashleigh is the real challenge.
[Banfield:] And then maybe that's the answer that everyone is looking for, is that it is remote. It's over 200 miles away from Nairobi and to try to respond with the kind of force you would need, in those rural places, there's just isn't that kind of there isn't that kind of force. Christian Purefoy, thank you for your reporting and I appreciate it. And there's this, small campuses and hotels and public spaces, you probably heard them called "Soft targets" before. The terrorists like to hit. Instead of like military bases or high security areas, of course it's cowardly because they do the most damage because those who are the victims are unsuspecting. They're innocent people just trying to live their life like those kids at school. Some of the deadliest extremist attacks in recent memory had been against these so called soft targets. Remember, 2008, Mumbai, India? Extremist from Pakistan attacks several places all at the same time and more than 160 people died. Is all played out at a huge hotel and upscale hotel. Eventually it was set on fire. In 2013, we just mentioned the Nairobi, Kenya assault. The details are pretty harrowing. Men with machine guns effectively blasting their way into a shopping mall and shooting at random, hunting for hours upon hours, it stretched into days and 67 people were murdered. May of last year in Belgium, a man who converted to Islam open fire at the Jewish Museum in Brussels, and before anyone could do anything about it, four people were dead. October of last year in Canada, a Muslim convert shot a military guard dead at the national monument in Ottawa and then just blitzed his way into the parliament building. Pretty remarkable. This year, January, gunmen forced their way into the Charlie Hebdo magazine offices in Paris and were able to murder 12 people and then take off, apparently, this in revenge for the magazine's cartoon depiction of their prophet, Muhammad. And then just last week, Al-Shabaab again claiming responsibility for car bombing and suicide bombing a hotel in Somalia. And in that attack a diplomat and five other people, again, murdered in cold blood. Paul Cruickshank is our Terrorism Analyst. He's in London right now. We're talking about these soft targets like the college campus in Kenya. But what I really want to get to hear is this notion for starters of Al-Shabaab. I have seen you say in writings that you think Al-Shabaab is actually kind of desperate and that this shows that they are weakening, and yet we're talking about victims in a hundred. How does that show anything that can be described as weak?
[Paul Cruickshank, Cnn Terrorism Analyst:] Well, Ashleigh, Al-Shabaab are being forced on to the back foot in Somalia by Kenyan military operations by African Union military operations. They lost their last urban stronghold last October. They're increasingly just based in rural areas. And so, this is a group that's lashing out here with terrorist attacks inside Kenya. It was the same with that Westgate mall attack back in the fall of 2013. But of course, it's a group which still poses a significant regional terrorist threat and as they've lost territory inside Somalia, they've increasingly focused on building up that regional terrorist capability. So there's a lot of concern that we could see more attacks in the region. Not just inside Kenya, in other places as well like Djibouti, Tanzania and elsewhere concern that United States interest may also be targeted in the region.
[Banfield:] OK.
[Cruickshank:] Yeah.
[Banfield:] And that well, that's where I want to take this because we just had yet another arrest today. Woman in Phily and the arrest affidavits suggest all sort of notorious activity going on in order to try to harm fellow Americans. Yesterday, two women in Brooklyn, same ammo, and the list goes on and on, actually about four or five just in the last month. At the top of my head, I'm sure I'm missing something. But here is the question, those women in Brooklyn said in the according to the, you know, the FBI, they said that they wanted to do something not so soft with normal people. They wanted to get something more significant like police officers or installations. And yet we're seeing the successes are really where the soft targets. This university was so far away from where the concentration of responders could possibly be that they could kill 150 in a matter of a day.
[Cruickshank:] That's absolutely right and terrorist groups have increasingly emphasized soft targets. Terrorism is a lot about sort of media impact coverage, and when you have five body counts, a lot of people being killed and injured, that sort of get these terrorist groups into the headlines. It's easier to go off through university or a school or a restaurant. But it is to go after harder target like an embassy and you can get just as much media coverage, so they've emphasized this. And Al-Shabaab, the Somalian terrorist group, just recently threatened attack inside the United States against malls inside the United States. Now, intelligence officials in the United States don't believe the group currently has much capability to do that. But worrying nevertheless, the groups like Al-Shabaab, like Al-Qaeda, like ISIS encouraging lone wolf supporters back in the west to hit soft targets.
[Banfield:] Paul Cruickshank, thank you for your analysis. I do appreciate it. I sure wish we could meet on different topics. But you're an expert in this one, that's for sure. Thank you, Paul.
[Cruickshank:] Thank you.
[Banfield:] So from one terrorist story to another, the defense in the Boston bombing trial, that's over. They rested after pretty much a day and a half, but now the real work begins, trying to save his life, which means planting seeds of doubt. But is there anyone on that jury who will find the nuggets of doubt they may have sown the least bit reasonable? Going to weigh that in a moment.