[Hill:] The White House Coronavirus Task Force says more than 2 million tests have been performed across the country. The president insisting there are no testing issues and yet we are still hearing of people who need to be tested for coronavirus, including healthcare workers, healthcare workers who can't get one. And that's just one part of the testing conversation. The other you are likely hearing a lot about is antibody testing. Those tests would let people know who had the virus. Dr. Anthony Fauci says those tests are coming as soon as next week and he cites the fact, as we hear from so many officials, that these tests are critical to reopening the economy.
[Dr. Anthony Fauci, Director, National Institute Of Allergy And Infectious Diseases:] As we look forward, as we get to the point of at least considering opening up the country as it were, it's very important to appreciate and to understand how much that virus has penetrated the society, because it is very likely that there are a large number of people out there that have been infected, have been asymptomatic, and did not know they were infected. If there is antibody tests positive, one can formulate kind of strategies about whether or not they would be at risk or vulnerable to getting re- infected.
[Hill:] Joining us now is Dr. William Schaffner, a professor in the Division of Infectious Diseases at Vanderbilt University Medical Center, and Dr. Lisa Dabby, an emergency room physician at UCLA Health. Good to have both of you with us. So, Dr. Schaffner, first, just give us a sense, how does this antibody test work? Why is it so important moving forward?
[Dr. William Schaffner, Professor, Division Of Infectious Diseases, Vanderbilt University Medical Center:] Well, the antibody test, Erica, determines whether you've been previously infected with the virus. It tells us whether you've had experience and are now protected. But we'd better be a little bit cautious about this. First of all, a lot of these tests are coming online without a lot of rigorous evaluation. So how good are they actually? Do they rigorously and appropriately tell us what it is that we want to know? And then there is another question we ought to think about. Suppose it's been implicit in what kind of Tony has said, that a very large proportion of people in the United States have already been infected. That will let us open things up. But there are lots of experts who think that that proportion is actually rather low. How will that help us open things up? So there are some problems ahead. There is not a total and easy solution to this yet.
[Hill:] So it sounds like you are saying, in giving us a better picture of how many Americans have had this virus, even those who didn't realize it, it could actually be further ammunition to keep some of these measures in place if the number is low. What's interesting too, as we look at what we're learning about people and how they're dealing with this, Dr. Dabby, the CDC this week released these new guidelines for essential workers, saying as long as they're symptom free, they can work after being exposed. And I'm curious, as an E.R. physician, as someone who is working around folks who likely fall into this category, what are your thoughts on that?
[Dr. Lisa Dabby, Emergency Room Physician, Ucla Health:] So, you know, this is something I think about every day because I've now been exposed, I don't know, over 30 or 40 times. If we took every physician and every nurse who's been exposed to COVID and isolated them for 14 days, we would have nobody in the E.R., in the hospital, to take care of patients. So the reality is that they're letting us work because we have no choice. We have to be out there working, taking care of patients. Now, having said that, they're monitoring us very closely. I get my temperature checked every day when I walk in the hospital. I have forms that I have to fill out screening me for symptoms. And there is a very low threshold to remove people from the workforce if there are any symptoms at all. But at this point, it's a supply-and-demand issue where we've got to keep people working.
[Hill:] Just a question about testing, in general, Dr. Schaffner, in terms of diagnostic testing and whether or not there is enough of it, and if it is in the places where it needs to be, especially after we learned this week that certain tests are producing a false negative at a potentially alarmingly high rate. Where do we stand on diagnostic testing?
[Schaffner:] Well, we still aren't having enough diagnostic testing across the country. And even when you can test, sometimes we have to wait quite a long time to get the results back. So we're still working on that, expanding it, but we're not anywhere close to what we would like to be. Each week, we're doing a little better but we have to keep doing better.
[Hill:] President Trump, we've heard a lot about President Trump, a lot from President Trump, talking about this anti-malaria drug, hydroxychloroquine, that it could be a possible treatment for coronavirus. The head of the CDC was asked specifically about it this week. Take a listen.
[Dr. Robert Redfield, Director, Centers For Disease Control And Prevention:] I'm not going to recommend it and not going to not recommend it. The CDC is an organization, as you know, you and I have talked about it before, we're not an opinion organization. We're a science-based, data-driven organization. At this moment in time, we are not recommending it but we're not not recommending it. We are recommending for the physician and patient to have that discussion.
[Hill:] There have been some concerns that there could be deadly side effects. But, Dr. Schaffner, when you hear that, I'm not recommending it, I'm not not recommending it, can you translate that for us? What should Americans take away from that?
[Schaffner:] Well, I think the important thing to know is that we now have clinical trials under way to determine exactly how effective or ineffective this drug is and what the side effects are. In fact, one of my colleagues at Vanderbilt is running this 40 medical center study around the country. We await those results with great interest. Evidence-based medicine, w need hard information so we know what we're doing when we're using this drug.
[Hill:] Dr. Dabby, there is still a lot of talk about personal protective equipment and whether those on the front lines have what they need. We're seeing the push in L.A. for people to cover their faces, not with obviously masks. But when it comes to what you need and when it comes to what you're seeing on a daily basis, do you have everything?
[Dabby:] So at this point, very fortunate at UCLA that we have what we need. What we're looking at is the long haul, the marathon we're about to enter. And we're trying to find creative ways to make what we have last a long time. And so what we're looking at now is we have our engineering department 3D printing face masks for us. We are looking into U.V. sterilization to clean appropriately the masks so we can reuse them safely. So at this point, we do have what we need, but we need to make sure that we continue to have what in the months that come.
[Hill:] And just real quick final thought. How do you feel about this new directive in L.A. that you could be in big trouble if you're not showing up in a store with your face covering?
[Dabby:] I'm in full support of this. What we need to do right now is everything we can to stop, to mitigate the spread of this virus. We need to slow the spread. And if we can get everybody, people who have asymptomatic virus, people who are early in their virus course and they don't realize it because they are not sick yet but they are still spreading the virus, if we can block every one of those people from spreading more virus to other people, then we should be doing that. Every single person should feel empowered to help fight this virus and stop the spread of it.
[Hill:] Doctors Lisa Dabby and William Schaffner, I appreciate your insight and expertise as always. Thank you.
[Schaffner:] Thank you.
[Dabby:] Thank you.
[Hill:] Just ahead, in times of crisis, sports can really be a refuge. But as you all know, it is not happening that way this time around. ESPN Host Stephen A. Smith joins me live on the future of sports and whether athletes should actually be playing to empty stadiums and arenas.