[Bolduan:] After over two years of investigation, after more than 440 pages of a report, and a whole lot of debate over it all, the man at the center of it all, the man who has said the least, has finally agreed to answer questions. Special Counsel Robert Mueller is set to testify before two House committees next month. And it will be a key moment for House Democrats who have been torn over the question of impeachment. Joining me right now is one Democratic lawmaker who will be questioning Mueller come July 17th, Democratic Congressman Jim Himes, of Connecticut. He sits on House Intelligence. Congressman, thank you for being here.
[Rep. Jim Himes:] Hi, Kate.
[Bolduan:] So Mueller testifying before your committee next month. What is the most important question that you want to ask him, do you think?
[Himes:] Well, that's an interesting question, Kate. Here's why I say that. I believe Bob Mueller, having watched him and known him for a long time, when he says that his testimony is his report, you should not expect, and nobody should expect that Bob Mueller is going to make any news in either of the testimonies he gives to the Congress. Now, you might ask, what's the point? The reality is that very, very few Americans have read the report. Very few Americans are familiar with the conclusions of the report, in particular part two of the report where Bob Mueller elaborates on ten possible examples of obstruction of justice. I expect that he will be willing to discuss, using the words of the report, those examples. But of course, my colleagues are going to spend a day trying to get him to say things outside of the report. I think he's unlikely to do that.
[Bolduan:] So wait, are you you're doing in not expecting to learn anything new?
[Himes:] I would not expect to learn a lot new. Again, he's going to abide if you know Bob Mueller, you know that of all the people in Washington, this is a man who means what he says and says what he means. I would be shocked if he goes too far from the language of the report. That said, he may be able to he may be willing to answer factual questions that maybe aren't directly in the report. What I'll be interested to see I mean, here you have a guy I've just told you what I think about him who is universally respected in Washington and has been for decades. Of course, the Republicans are going to try to slander him. They're going to try to say you were biased. They're going to come up with notions that he couldn't have been a fair arbiter of this report. It's going to be interesting to see how he parries that. Bob Mueller is concerned about his legacy. He doesn't want to get drawn into a partisan food fight. But he's going to stand up for his own integrity.
[Bolduan:] That raises an interesting point. If these hearings become about how many members of Bob Mueller's team are Democrats or if this becomes about Lisa Page and Peter Strzok, and why Mueller when Mueller pulled Strzok off the case, do you consider that would you consider this kind of backfiring on all of you, calling him before you to answer questions?
[Himes:] Well, again, I don't think it's going to so much backfire. If you go into this believing what he has said, which is his report is his testimony, I think the only, you know, risk is that there's going to be a feeling of letdown.
[Bolduan:] Yes.
[Himes:] Again, I don't think he's going to make a lot of news. The Republicans, as you point out, are going to try to slander the guy. They're going to come up with absurd ideas, despite the fact already no facts out there to suggest anybody in this was biased. They're going to say, well, you had a guy on your team who was a registered Democrat. The interesting question will be, will Bob Mueller give the obvious response, which is, hey, everybody is registered in a party. That doesn't mean they can't do their job with objectivity. The cop that pulls you over for speeding is registered in a party. Are we going to say that you only pull someone over in your own party? I mean, that line of argument is absurd. And I'll be sort of interested to see if Mueller points out that absurdity.
[Bolduan:] I find your position on this fascinating because what we heard from Jerry Nadler, the chairman of the Judiciary Committee, we heard from him today, is he said if Mueller would just sit there basically and read from his report, that is worthwhile. Do you think that's the case?
[Himes:] Well, I think we're saying the same thing, right? What I've said twice now
[Bolduan:] Yes.
[Himes:] is that his testimony will be his report. Jerry Nadler
[Bolduan:] No, here's what I can't get. Jerry Nadler thinks that's worthwhile. I'm having a hard time understanding if you think this is worthwhile at all.
[Himes:] I absolutely think it's worthwhile. I know from my own constituents that a small minority of people out there have actually read an almost 500-page report. I don't blame them for that. I read it. But an awful lot of people obviously watch live testimony when it's heavily covered in the media. Again, I don't think the content is going to be any different than what was in the report, but the media, by which it gets presented to the American people, is going to be very, very different. I think very impactful.
[Bolduan:] Do you think you are now into a place of supporting launching an impeachment inquiry into the president, but your reasons go beyond the Russia investigation. Talk about fascinating, I thought it was fascinating, you had a very long list outside the Russia investigation why you think you're to a place of wanting to support an impeachment inquiry. With that said, with that in mind, after you hear from Mueller, the definitive voice on this investigation, if you don't see a flood of Democrats moving towards the position of saying now it's time to launch an impeachment inquiry, is it fair to think the House is never going to get there?
[Himes:] Well, I keep trying to sort of say this, but because the media is sort of fascinated with the notion of the number of Democrats who support an impeachment inquiry. Speaker Pelosi is going to listen to her caucus. Most of us acknowledge she's been doing this a lot longer and a lot better than most of us representing our individual constituency. I said in my statement supporting an inquiry, look, all I can do is tell you what my constituents want in southwestern Connecticut.
[Bolduan:] Right.
[Himes:] Speaker Pelosi, of course, is thinking about the whole country, thinking about her legacy, thinking about the divisiveness of an impeachment. So she's factoring in a lot of things that some of us whose job it is to represent our constituent perhaps don't see. So again, I think, you know I don't know where Speaker Pelosi is going to wind up on this. She's very, very attuned to popular will and to where we go in the coming months.
[Bolduan:] So I was just handed this, Congressman. Sorry. I'm looking down reading it. This came through from Ted Barrett and Lauren Fox, our amazing reporters on the Hill, that you voted for the House version of the border emergency funding bill last night. We just learned that Senate Republican leaders are saying they have decided they will not negotiate over differences between the bill in the House and what they're looking at in the Senate, which now will force Pelosi's hand and all of a your hands, if you will, to take it or leave it because the president has indicated he's supportive of the Senate bill. Just go through all of that parliamentary whatever.
[Himes:] I'm not surprised by that. That's typical inside-the-capitol grandstanding. But it is kind of interesting, because, if I heard you right, and I've not seen that right, you said the Republican leader of the Senate doesn't want to negotiate with the Democratic House. The president's story, remember, including tweeting today, was that it is the Democrats that are obstructing action objecting the border. We passed a bill yesterday, and it's apparently Republican Leader McConnell and the president who are unwilling to negotiate. Look, I think what you're seeing is grandstanding. My guess is everybody around here understands that we need more resources on the border to take care of what is a moral abomination. Whatever you think about the wall, whatever you think about the future of our immigration system, children do not sleep on cold cement floors in the United States of America. I think people of both parties want to solve that. If the president says, it's my way or the highway, he'll own that, as he does, but he'll continue to own that, as he does. But he will continue to own that. I think that's a pretty difficult position to be in.
[Bolduan:] Let's see what the next 24, 48 hours brings with this crisis we're looking at, at the border, and what Congress can do. Congressman, thank you for coming in.
[Himes:] Thanks, Kate.
[Bolduan:] Really appreciate it. All right, guys. Breaking news coming up. We're going to put it together. We'll be right back.