[Pagliarulo:] Coming up, things may be getting heated between Democratic presidential hopefuls Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama lately, but despite that, there is one person that thinks they`ll be the Democratic ticket come election day. Rudy Giuliani. More on that in a minute. But first, Border Patrol agent Nicholas Corbett will stand trial for the killing of an illegal alien. During a preliminary hearing on Monday, a judge ruled that evidence does not support first-degree murder charges. He had been charged with four counts of first-degree murder, if you can believe that. Well, Arizona`s Cochise County judge, David Morales, ruling instead that Corbett will face charges of second-degree murder. The charges stem from the January 12 shooting of an illegal alien who had just crossed the U.S.-Mexico border. Corbett claims it was self- defense. The three major witnesses in this case, all illegal aliens, have evidently had major inconsistencies between their individual testimonies. It gets better. The Mexican consulate had reportedly been providing those witness with food, an apartment in Tucson and free transportation while awaiting the trial. Sean Chapman and David Santander are the defense attorneys for Border Agent Corbett. Was yesterday`s hearing a small victory or it was just the first step in the process?
[Sean Chapman, Attorney For Nicholas Corbett:] I think it`s just the first step in this process. It`s probable cause determination that it`s a very low standard of proof.
[Pagliarulo:] Does someone want to please explain to me, because I`m just a dumb radio guy. How exactly can you charge one guy three or four times for the murder of one person? Wasn`t that the original charge?
[Chapman:] The judge threw out the first-degree murder charge. The prosecutor`s entitled to alternatively charge different levels of murder, and that`s what he did in this case. I think it`s important to remember, though, that this agent is a federal law enforcement officer that puts his life on the line on a daily basis for this country, and he is presumed innocent. And in fact he is innocent, and we`re going to establish that at trial.
[Pagliarulo:] OK. Well, we can appreciate that, but he`s the next in the line. You`ve got Compean and Ramos. You`ve got Gary Brugman. Now you`ve got your client here. What`s going on? Is it open season on border agents or wrong place, wrong time? What`s happening here?
[Chapman:] I cannot comment on the overall picture there, but I can tell you that in this case the Mexican government by its actions has influenced three key witnesses in this case by providing them with housing, allowing them to stay in this country illegally, chauffeuring them around town, not requiring them to work. They`ve simply been told that the president of Mexico has a personal interest in the outcome of this case.
[Pagliarulo:] Wait a second. Want to stop you there. I want to stop you here. Hey, Daniel, I want to get you involved in this, as well. How exactly is it that these illegal aliens are still here? How is it that they`re staying here? Is there some special visa to testify against a border agent?
[Daniel Santander, Attorney For Nicholas Corbett:] Usually, I don`t think there`s a visa involved in this particular case. I think...
[Pagliarulo:] Then how are they here?
[Santander:] They`re given employment authorization. Technically, they may be paroled in for the public interest, basically so that they can testify at the trial in this case.
[Pagliarulo:] How is it that we`re taking their word for it? Isn`t this a conflict of interest? Wouldn`t they like to see some sort of bad come to a Border Patrol agent that was trying to stop their friend and their brother, or one of the guys that was with them as they were breaking our laws coming here? How can they be taken as suitable witnesses in this case?
[Santander:] You`re going to have to talk to the state about that. We tried to elicit that yesterday at the preliminary hearing, and I think we did a very good job of doing that.
[Pagliarulo:] Is there a chance of throwing them out as witnesses or are they going to definitely stick around?
[Santander:] We`ve asked them to stick around. We`re hoping that they can stick around at trial so that we can have another opportunity to cross- examine them. We`ve asked the Cochise County attorney to keep them around, as well.
[Pagliarulo:] Thanks, Sean and Daniel. Appreciate the time. Joining me now is Brandon Judd, vice president of the National Border Patrol Council, Local 2544. Brandon, has there been strong reaction to this case from other agents?
[Brandon Judd, Vice President, National Border Patrol Council, Local 2544:] There`s always strong reaction when something like this happens, but in this specific case, absolutely.
[Pagliarulo:] At what point at what point will the U.S. attorney stop taking the word of those breaking our laws to go ahead and testify against the people who are trying to uphold our laws? You`ve got Compean and Ramos. You`ve got Gary Brugman. And you`ve got illegal aliens are the ones who are testifying against them, and juries are allowed to hear their testimony. Are the juries told that they`re here illegally? Are they told they were trying to break the law, as well?
[Judd:] I hope they are. I can`t comment on when the U.S. attorney`s going to stop this, but in this case this is the county attorney. But in - as far as agents are concerned, it`s the same thing.
[Pagliarulo:] OK. So you`ve got you`ve got potential bad people who are at least doing a violation of our law, trying to come here illegally who are now going to be sitting on the witness stand after having been put up by the Mexican consulate, having had the support of the president of Mexico. Can you win in a case like this? You`ve got a strong union there, but I mean, I would guess that at some point Border Patrol agents are going to go, "You know what? It would be easier to go and deliver the mail."
[Judd:] You can`t win when it comes to a foreign government. If they`re allowed to be involved in our politics, you can`t win. Unfortunately, we have a tough job, and when we`re allowed to have another government influence how we work it, it becomes even tougher.
[Pagliarulo:] What are the details of this case? You`ve had three or four people coming here illegally. You have this Border Patrol agent doing his job. How did it how did it get to the point where he he killed this guy?
[Judd:] Well, unfortunately, you have to look at he`s by himself and you have three witnesses that are testifying against him, and unfortunately, it`s his word against the three witnesses` word. The evidence is going to turn out to where he is innocent, but the county attorney does have to take take into consideration the testimony. But in a nutshell what happened was this agent was doing his job. He he encountered a large group of illegal aliens. He arrested three of them initially, put them in the back of his vehicle, continued on. He was he was directed to where to go. He continued on. And he encountered the other the other four. When he got out of his vehicle, an altercation took place in which an alien was was shot.
[Pagliarulo:] So we`ve got a guy who`s out there protecting our borders, protecting you and me, protecting our sovereignty. And he`s out there, and he`s got it`s seven on one? He`s got three in the back. He`s got four more that he`s dealing with in front of him. And now he`s the one that`s going to go down for this shooting, or he`s facing this trial is going to be the trial of his life and his livelihood and for his family, and all because he`s doing what he was asked to do by the federal government? Please help me to understand this.
[Judd:] Unfortunately, Joe, it wasn`t just seven on one. South just south of where he was at you had at least eight to 12 other people who had entered in this in this group and who had made it back south. While they were standing back south again, this is just a hundred yards away from where the altercation took place. You had eight to 12 individuals who were yelling at the agent, who were making gestures, who were doing different things. So it wasn`t just seven on one. You had a lot of other people.
[Pagliarulo:] It could have been as much as 20 on one, and that`s the point here. We`ve got to get more Border Patrol agents down there and maybe get some American witnesses to everything that happens. We appreciate your time, Brandon. Keep us updated on what happens in this case.
[Judd:] Thank you, sir.
[Pagliarulo:] All right. Coming up right here, new reports indicate the troop surge in Iraq is actually working. Well, it`s either a success or the administration is doing a great job of selling it. I`ll take a closer look and get some real answers for you. And Rudy Giuliani has been campaigning hard for the White House, but it looks like he`s left out one key demographic: the Giuliani family, Giuliani, some would say. I`ll explain in tonight`s "Political Roundtable".