[John Berman, Cnn Anchor:] the Russia investigation. It's Matt Whitaker who has been openly hostile toward the Mueller investigation on T.V. and social media. I want to bring in Jeffrey Toobin, a former federal prosecutor and CNN legal analyst, and CNN political analysts David Gregory and Carl Bernstein. Carl, I want to start with you. We're going to talk about Mueller a lot. I do want to give you a moment to reflect on what we're seeing this morning 12 people killed in a mass shooting. And I've said it many times this morning the deadliest mass shooting in 12 days in the United States and that's the part that should stick with us.
[Carl Bernstein, Cnn Political Analyst, Journalist, Author:] Well, as journalists, I think we need to find some new way to cover these shootings as part of a national pathology. I don't know the answer but I do believe we need to dig deep into, as we have with racial questions in the past. Perhaps we've had commissions, one thing and another, but what is this about that makes us somewhat unique that these events keep repeating themselves in the horrible fashion that they do? And again, I think there's a journalistic challenge but I don't know the answer to it.
[Alisyn Camerota, Cnn Anchor:] Yes, no one does. I mean, we just feel helpless. We just report on it over and over.
[Bernstein:] Well, I think there's a deeper story. I think there's a deeper story. Again, I use the word national pathology. I don't know what that is but I think there is a journalistic task at hand as well, obviously, a task for our leaders, both moral, political, business everyone to start looking at why this is the kind of part of our culture that it is.
[Berman:] Jeffrey, I want to move to the Mueller investigation if I can because the last 24 hours, it's not just another day.
[Jeffrey Toobin, Cnn Chief Legal Analyst, Former Federal Prosecutor:] Right.
[Berman:] It is not just another day.
[Toobin:] Right.
[Berman:] The president fired the attorney general of the United States demanded his resignation, but it's a firing and replaced him. The acting attorney general is a man, by all accounts, who was chosen because he is hostile to the Mueller investigation.
[Toobin:] And he's now in charge of the Mueller investigation. And the question is what will he do to manifest to make real his hostility to the Mueller investigation? Obviously, at one extreme, he can fire Mueller. It doesn't appear like he's going to that imminently. But as he, himself Mr. Whitaker has talked about, he could limit the budget, he could limit the jurisdiction, he could limit the kinds of investigatory tools he can use. He can say I am not going to allow you to subpoena the President of the United States. That's my order as your supervisor. So, how Whitaker implements his control of the Mueller investigation is now the is now the big question for him. We know it's going to be different than Rod Rosenstein
[Camerota:] Yes.
[Toobin:] because he has a Rod Rosenstein has been supportive of Mueller from day one.
[Camerota:] And, David Gregory, what we know is that Whitaker does not believe that Robert Mueller has broad, far-reaching powers. He believes it should be a more narrow parameter. He has said as much in an op-ed and in television. So now what?
[David Gregory, Cnn Political Analyst:] Well, right. That's the important question. And no doubt, he got this job because he passed the most important test, which was supporting the president on television. And the president has said that he wants there's the bigger of the question of the loyalty that this president demands that he wants an attorney general to protect him. Now, look, this is so far down the line this investigation. My initial thought was would the president really want the consequences that would come with shutting down the probe? But this is also a president who threatened to use his Senate majority to resist any check and balance that would come from the House that is now controlled by Democrats. So I can answer my presumed naivety by saying he would do anything. The question is what will Congress do, right? So if there's any attempt to, say, limit or cut off an expansion of the probe or to force the conclusion of the investigation presumably, Mueller has thought about this. And as I talked to lawyers yesterday and this is a question for Jeffrey if he's got a report, and let's say it's ready to go, could he already have the authority from Rosenstein to send that to Congress? Could he have if there's indictments, could he have those under seal? And is Whitaker in a position, potentially, to countermand that? And then, the question about Congress. Republicans in the Senate, Mitch McConnell and others, have said that Mueller should be able to finish his work. In light of the midterm elections, you know, some expansion of the majority in the Senate will they stick to that? That's the leadership test.
[Toobin:] Can I just address one of the very important points that David just raised the report. Under the regulation under which Mueller is appointed, the report goes to his supervisor
[Gregory:] Yes.
[Toobin:] now, Whitaker, the acting attorney general. Whitaker is under no the regulation does not say specifically what he's supposed to do with that.
[Berman:] He can take it home.
[Toobin:] He could take it home
[Berman:] Leave it in the night safe.
[Toobin:] leave it in a safe, and never share it with anyone. Or he could make it public, he could send it to Congress. I mean, this is one of the most critical responsibilities that Whitaker now has as the supervisor of the Mueller investigation. What does he do with this report that he will receive and it may be more than one report? One report, in the some reporting I've done, suggests that there will be a report that Mueller does about obstruction of justice about the firing of James Comey, separate from any report about the Russia part of his
[Berman:] Let me let me
[Bernstein:] Let me make a suggestion on one other aspect here.
[Berman:] Hang on one second. Just one second just one second, Carl. And my understanding also, Whitaker could literally stand in the way of an indictment if he wanted to. If Mueller wanted to indict someone tomorrow or this week, Whitaker could say no.
[Toobin:] Absolutely.
[Berman:] All right. Go ahead, Carl.
[Bernstein:] I think we need to look at this in a larger context of Donald Trump trying to both spy on the Mueller investigation himself and constrain it. And I say that based on some knowledge, not just speculation, because what I was told as were some other people working on these stories before the election that after Election Day, Trump was determined to constrain, bury the Mueller investigation. To look toward what he was going to do in terms of, perhaps, pardons. But his great frustration, as anyone around him will tell you, has been he doesn't know what's going on in the Mueller investigation. He now has unless Whitaker has is going to immediately recuse himself, he now has a spy camera into the investigation.
[Gregory:] Well, you but you also, Carl, have
[Bernstein:] Jeffrey, do you do you think that is right?
[Toobin:] Well, yes, but he is the supervisor.
[Bernstein:] This has been what he has lost and not had. It's one of the reasons that he wanted to fire Comey.
[Berman:] Yes.
[Bernstein:] Comey wouldn't tell him what was going on in the investigation. He now has the ability to know what's going on, including how that office Mr. Mueller is looking at his son-in-law, at his son. So, Trump now is in
[Gregory:] But he may already know a lot of things that are making him upset, you know. I mean, that's
[Bernstein:] Yes. He knows things that are making him upset. But I can tell you that I have heard from people around Trump his frustration is partly he does not know and has not known
[Gregory:] Right.
[Camerota:] As much as he wants.
[Bernstein:] the big aspects of this investigation are about.
[Gregory:] And but let's also point that the guardrails that have been in place, you know, whether it was Don McGahn, his counsel, whether it was the attorney general or whether it was Republican leaders telling him not to fire Mueller. Not to act on any of those impulses. Are those now removed? I mean, the one question I've had is he had the ability to fire Rosenstein before. Remember, "The New York Times" reporting about him suggesting, they said jokingly, about people wearing a wire and resisting the president, et cetera. We know he's wanted to fire Sessions since the very beginning. He what gave him pause or at least those around him was oh, it would have these terrible consequences politically, and he held off.
[Camerota:] After the midterms.
[Gregory:] Now, does he now throw all of that out? Is he not worried about the consequences for himself for 2020? I don't know the answer to that
[Camerota:] Well, I mean
[Gregory:] but he exercised some restraint.
[Camerota:] I think we know of some of the answers that he did it seconds after the midterms.
[Gregory:] Right.
[Camerota:] He did it seconds there were still results coming in.
[Berman:] There still are results coming.
[Camerota:] There still are results coming in. Twenty-twenty is a long way away.
[Toobin:] Well, but the political scenario has changed in a
[Berman:] Yes.
[Toobin:] different way as well. Democrats now control the House of Representatives.
[Gregory:] Right.
[Toobin:] He also has to be concerned about the Judiciary Committee subpoenaing Robert Mueller to testify about what's going on. So
[Berman:] Two months from now. Two months from now, but it will happen if anything
[Toobin:] Yes.
[Berman:] if anything like that goes on. Jeffrey Toobin, Carl Bernstein, David Gregory, thank you very much.
[Gregory:] Thanks.
[Camerota:] Of course, we're staying on top of the breaking news this morning. Another deadly mass shooting in America. Twelve people killed in a Southern California bar. We have many more details, next.