[Bolduan:] As the manhunt drags on into its 19th day now, the focus still remains on how were these killers able to pull off such a daring escape? Our next guest worked in the same prison shop where many say the elaborate scheme began.
[Berman:] Erik Jansen served nine months at Clinton Correctional Facility alongside David Sweat and Richard Matt and also prison worker Joyce Mitchell. Erik Jansen joins us right now. Thanks so much for being with us. You worked in tailor shop number 3, that was the shop that Joyce Mitchell worked in and that was the shop at the time inmate David Sweat was also working in.
[Erik Jansen, Former Clinton Correction Facility Inmate:] That's correct.
[Berman:] Describe their relationship.
[Jansen:] Their relationship was in simple terms, it would be when the cute guy at high school asks, you know, the girl to the prom. And the look on her face every day when they would get together and they would talk and they would laugh, giggle, conversations all day long. And when they'd go in the back room at the end of the day to count the garments, you know, I never thought anything about it until after this whole thing took place.
[Bolduan:] Oh really?
[Jansen:] Yes
[Bolduan:] That relationship, the way you described that, was that unusual? Was this happening were there a lot of interactions between inmates and workers that were like this?
[Jansen:] There are interactions but not to that extent where someone would bring in the food for him, bring in tattoo supplies, art supplies, things of that nature. There are relationships in the prison where you get to know an officer...
[Bolduan:] Not like this?
[Jansen:] Definitely not like this.
[Berman:] They went into the back room.
[Jansen:] Correct.
[Berman:] That's the closet?
[Jansen:] That's correct. Well it's where they keep the materials. It's not an actual closet. It's where you can walk in, there's a door on it. And they keep the materials that were completed and the materials that needed to be done.
[Berman:] And Joyce Mitchell and David Sweat were in there alone.
[Jansen:] That's correct.
[Berman:] A lot.
[Jansen:] Correct.
[Berman:] What did you think was going on?
[Jansen:] It was a running joke inside the tailor shop that, you know, that was his boo.
[Bolduan:] His girlfriend?
[Jansen:] His girlfriend. You know, she's to always treat him to things. And she always, you know she had to interact with him because of her job and his job, him being the supervisor of the tailor shop below the civilian. So it was him that always went to the civilian, you know. So I don't know if that's how the relationship started between them just because of his position and him always having to go up and talk to her and then it became more friendly and as things progressed.
[Bolduan:] Look if a lot of this seems, there's a little, it's a little confusing. And it's also complicated because as we now know Joyce Mitchell's husband has come out and says he does not believe at all that there's a sexual relationship including her and either of these inmates.
[Jansen:] Right.
[Bolduan:] Do you think otherwise?
[Jansen:] We all thought otherwise, you know. You know, you don't spend that much time with somebody. You don't go into the mess hall. When we went to the mess hall, he'd stay back with her and in the tailor shop, you know there are certain things that you see and that you can perceive yourself if you were there. You know, I know now there's less speculation...
[Bolduan:] Did you ever ask him about it?
[Jansen:] We all did. We all did...
[Bolduan:] What did he say?
[Jansen:] He used to laugh. He would never confirm or deny it. Never confirm or deny it. And Dave wasn't one of many words in general. He never really was very outspoken person anyway. He was quiet. The reason me and him bonded so good together was because I'm an artist, he's an artist. And we used to share our artwork. Talk about artwork things. He was very intricate with his details. And that, as you can see, very intricate in the details with this as well.
[Berman:] Are you surprised he's pulled this off?
[Jansen:] I'm very surprised. That place is like a fortress. It's a fortress. There's no way you can get out of there without help.
[Berman:] Do you think he was working it?
[Jansen:] I believe so.
[Berman:] At that time?
[Bolduan:] You think that was the whole point of his relationship with...
[Jansen:] I believe so. I believe so. We played a lot of chess together, me and Dave. And he always said that mentality to always think. He used to whip me on a chessboard.
[Bolduan:] What was his reputation behind bars?
[Jansen:] He was respected.
[Bolduan:] You're the first person we really are speaking with that knows him.
[Jansen:] Yes. He was respected. He was respected because in that environment, when you're in a prison environment, they judge you by your crime. When you come in, especially in...
[Berman:] He was a cop killer?
[Jansen:] Yes.
[Berman:] He was respected?
[Jansen:] In there, it's respect because you're all convicts. So that's like the highest level of respect you can get in a prison system. Is if you kill somebody who puts you in the prison system.
[Bolduan:] Did you know Richard Matt well?
[Jansen:] I knew Rich, but I didn't know him well. I didn't actually interact with him like that. He was also in the tailor shop as well.
[Bolduan:] Exactly.
[Berman:] The closet, again or this back room...
[Jansen:] Yes.
[Bolduan:] Yes.
[Berman:] Had a view or has a view of the manhole.
[Jansen:] Yes, it does.
[Berman:] Tell me about that.
[Jansen:] It does. If you actually look when I've seen it on the television, I got chills because you could see up in the back, the windows above the wall, all those windows that line that whole facility right there are tailor shop windows. And from that work closet, you can there's a window that looks out over the wall into the street at Dannemore.
[Bolduan:] What went on in that closet? The relationship that you all said was a running joke that everyone kind of knew about, did you ever think about speaking up? Did you ever think about talking to a guard about it?
[Jansen:] No.
[Bolduan:] Why not?
[Jansen:] I did not think about that because that's in Clinton Clinton is different. Clinton is everyday something goes on. When you're outside at that yard, somebody's getting stabbed, somebody's getting cut, somebody's getting into a fight. And if you're a snitch in there...
[Berman:] You're scared?
[Jansen:] Yes.
[Berman:] So the amount of information we're getting now about how they got some of the stuff they used to break out, hacksaws smuggled in in hamburger, glasses with flashlights somehow passed on to them.
[Jansen:] It's amazing how they got it from the tailor shop back to their cell block.
[Bolduan:] Were you in the honor block?
[Jansen:] No, I was not. I was in upper age.
[Berman:] Stuff was smuggled in. I'm sure you know, as prison stuff gets into a prison somehow. Are you surprised that that I mean, a hacksaw in glasses with flashlights. There's really no alternative use for them other than trying to sneak out.
[Jansen:] You're trying to escape. You're not going to go looking for something in the dark with those. When you leave the tailor shop, you have to actually go through a metal detector. That's like going when you're getting on an airplane, it's like TSA right there. They run you through it. If you beep, you got to take your shoes off. If you beep more, you got to take your clothes off. So I don't see how you can get those items through that metal detector.
[Bolduan:] Well as we are learning, it sure sounds like they found a weakness. They found a vulnerability. And that was a person. That was Joyce Mitchell.
[Jansen:] Correct.
[Bolduan:] What type of person is Joyce Mitchell? What kind of relationship did you have with her?
[Jansen:] I have I didn't really have a very personal relationship with Joyce. Like I said, she was the head of the tailor shop. David was right under her.
[Bolduan:] So Erik, was there only one person that she seemed to have a personal relationship with, then?
[Jansen:] Well she would mingle with the whole she'll come in, say hi. Sometimes she would bring doughnuts for the whole tailor shop. Stuff like that because we were allowed to bring our coffee down there. We'd bring our coffee down there, we have doughnuts on a break. We'd all go, usually like six of us, seven of us, at a time, we would go into that back room. You're not supposed to smoke cigarettes inside. But we smoked cigarettes inside, drank coffee, you know, on our breaks.
[Berman:] Would you have ever thought she would be the type of person to facilitate this?
[Jansen:] No, never. Never. Never. She was like she was reminding me, of like a this was a couple of years ago. But she was still like, like a older, like a grandmother kind of figure. You know, she was older. You know, she was married. I never thought that she would.
[Bolduan:] So in your gut when you hear about this breakout and then you learn that she has confessed to smuggling this stuff in in frozen hamburger meat, what's your reaction?
[Jansen:] Wow. Wow. He must have really sold her. He sold her. I don't know with what, but he sold her.
[Berman:] Erik Jensen, a lot of information right there, we appreciate you helping us understand what's going on.
[Bolduan:] Thanks for coming in.
[Jansen:] You're very welcome.
[Bolduan:] Thanks Erik.
[Berman:] OK. A leaked autopsy report says the injury to Freddie Gray was like diving into the shallow end of a pool. Up next, we'll show you the inside of a police transport van and the dangers of not having a seat belt on while inside.
[Bolduan:] And it is a crowded field. But somehow the Donald, Donald Trump, managed to take second place in a new poll in New Hampshire. Is he a more serious candidate than people are giving him credit for?