[Amanpour:] Welcome back to the program. Today was supposed to see the start of the new Syria peace talks. But it's been delayed by posturing and arguments over who would represent the opposition. Invitations didn't go out. Now Friday is the start day, says the U.N. envoy, Staffan de Mistura, emphasizing the talks will last about six months and hopefully succeed where the last two attempts failed.
[Staffan De Mistura, U.n. Special Envoy To Syria:] This is not Geneva 3. This is leading to what we hope will be a Geneva success story, if we are able to push it forward.
[Amanpour:] And Turkey, a key player that bears the brunt of the refugee crisis, will surely be pleased with what the Italian prime minister just told me earlier on the program, that they'll finally start seeing the annual $3 billion euros that were pledged for refugees by the E.U. The U.S. vice president, Joe Biden, gave additional support, by Ankara's long by calling Ankara's long-time foes, the Kurdish PKK, terrorists, as officials in Europe complain that Turkey is focusing more on them than on daish. I put all that to Prime Minister Davutoglu when I spoke to him in Davos. Prime minister, welcome to the program.
[Davutoglu:] Thank you.
[Amanpour:] Iran seems to have gained a great victory in the nuclear deal. How does that make you feel? How does that make Turkey feel?
[Davutoglu:] I am happy that now we reached an agreement on the nuclear program of Iran and of end of sanction is also good for not only for Iran but for all the economy.
[Amanpour:] Do you see Iran as a rival, as a regional rival?
[Davutoglu:] We don't see Iran as a rival. We are neighbors, historic neighbors. Throughout history, we have, we had a good and bad terms of our relations but at this moment, in the last 12 years, our relation has been a relation of good neighborhood. But we have difference of opinion in Syria, in Iraq.
[Amanpour:] I have asked you many times and I've interviewed many of the key players about how we're going to end the Syria war. What do you say, though, about the Syrian Kurds, who occupy a certain part, who live in a certain part of Syria and who have been pretty much the only credible ground force against Assad and against ISIS? Will you accept them sitting at the table?
[Davutoglu:] We want Syrian Kurds around the table, without Syrian Kurds,
[U.s. Amanpour:] But again, you might call them terrorists and the E.U. might call them terrorists but the U.S. has been working with them. They are the ground force. So is it time to recognize reality?
[Davutoglu:] Those who are recognizing them as a legitimate partner, they do not work they do not live in the reality of the region. Nobody can convince us that these people are for peace.
[Amanpour:] What do you make of the Russian action? There's umpteen reports that Russian has, in its 3.5-month bombing campaign, significantly or at least enough bolstered President Assad's position, so that he could come to the negotiating table with a lot more bargaining chips he had 3.5 months ago.
[Davutoglu:] For many years, Russia was against any foreign intervention to Syria. But now Russia itself is intervening in a very negative manner, in fact, occupying Syria. And all the Russians' operations until now, 90 percent are against civilians and moderate opposition Idlib, Aleppo as does Latakia. And against the schools, hospitals. We know this, because all those who were injured by Russian bombardment are escaping to Turkey. Only 10 percent of Russian airstrikes are against daish. But as P5, member of P5, of course, Russia, like others, can contribute to this to the peaceful to the peace process but we expect Russia to respect Syrian civilians and we expect Russia not to push Syrian civilians towards Turkish borders.
[Amanpour:] Your mantra and your mantra, Mr. Prime Minister, even as foreign minister, when this war started, was that Assad must go. There's no negotiating, there's no transition with him. There's nothing, you keep saying, Assad must go. But Assad thinks he is winning right now, because he has the Russian air force and he has Iranian and Hezbollah ground force. And your lot don't have much. Is he winning?
[Davutoglu:] No, he's not winning. No Syrian will go back if Assad sit continues to sit in Damascus. This is the criteria of peacefulness. And he's not winning at all.
[Amanpour:] Your country has been attacked twice in the last several months, at least, by ISIS. You blame ISIS and hundreds of people have been killed, in Ankara and recently in the heart of Istanbul's tourist district. The president, when he spoke live to the nation about it, blamed ISIS, stayed on it for a couple of minutes and then spent the rest of his half- hour speech on the PKK. There are people who don't understand why Turkey today feels that the PKK is more of a threat than
[Isis. Davutoglu:] Well, it is same
[Amanpour:] It's not being treated as the same. The president and the prime minister and the government harp on the PKK all the time.
[Davutoglu:] No, you cannot compare two evils. Evils are evils.
[Pkk - - Amanpour:] But which is a bigger danger right now?
[Davutoglu:] Both are dangers to Turkey. Both are ideological threats against democracy.
[Amanpour:] You know, there are a lot of people who think that your government simply doesn't like criticism. They don't think it, they know it. Because, it is really difficult to criticize. And you're a democracy. You have journalists still in jail. You have editors on trial. You have, you know, academics who have written just a letter, criticizing the campaign against the Kurds, civilians and others, as they've written, who were threatened and accused of being treasonous and traitors. And people are trying to figure out, what is it with Turkey today? This was a robust democracy when the AKP came to power in 2002
[Davutoglu:] And today it's a robust democracy.
[Amanpour:] Well, people are saying, is it going a little Putinista?
[Davutoglu:] Those who are criticizing us from this perspective, they should know one simple reality. We had two elections last year, fair, objective elections, and there has been all type of criticism against the government in both of the elections. And many of the newspapers, TV channels, were against the our party. These statements recently by
[Amanpour:] These academics are believed to have criticized an
[Davutoglu:] They can criticize any issue
[Amanpour:] and you conflate them with supporting terror. That is a tactic that's been used, you know, by many, many governments who are fighting
[Davutoglu:] Christiane
[Amanpour:] no, but seriously, U.S. ambassador to Turkey, Mr. Bass, has said and, of course, they know that the PKK is designated a terrorist organization. Nonetheless, quote, "We are concerned about the pressure having a chilling effect on legitimate political discourse." This is about the academicians. "Expressions of concern about violence do not equal support for terrorism. Criticism of a government does not equal treason." E.U. spokesman, "It's all extremely worrying."
[Davutoglu:] It shows that there is freedom of expressions in Turkey
[Amanpour:] Well, no
[Davutoglu:] even foreign diplomats can criticize us and we are not saying anything
[Amanpour:] That's foreign diplomats, that's not Turks.
[Davutoglu:] no, no, any academician can criticize us. But I call academicians to have ethical responsibility, to see the reality on the ground.
[Amanpour:] Why does President Erdogan need to try to get the constitution changed? Why does the constitution need to be changed in order to prolong the power of an individual? Why?
[Davutoglu:] This is not any of debate. After this constitution was adopted in early 1980s by a military junta, that has been the agenda of Turkey. Now there is the need of a new constitution, based on individual freedoms, right and freedoms, checks and balances, separation of power. The substance, the spirit of the constitution is important. And if we can achieve to such a constitution, a civilian constitution, made by a civilian parliament, that will be the greatest reform we can achieve.
[Amanpour:] Prime minister, thank you very much for joining us.
[Davutoglu:] Thank you very much. Thank you.
[Amanpour:] And while the politicians debate, the artists create. The anonymous British graffiti artist known as Banksy is once again letting the walls do the talking, this time taking on the refugee crisis and depicting Cosette from Victor Hugo's "Les Miserables," weeping and trapped in a cloud of tear gas. It's spray painted across the road from the French embassy here in London. And it's Banksy's art attack on the Calais police and their aggressive clearing of the refugee camps. When we come back, we imagine a world of some other British pioneers, the women who rowed across our planet's largest ocean in a tiny four-person boat. That's next.