[Blitzer:] The Republican presidential candidate, Mitt Romney, showing off a new side in Iowa today. Listen to this dramatic exchange.
[Mitt Romney , Presidential Candidate:] Over the coming decades, going to be able to balance our budget and not spend more that we take in, we have to make sure that the promises we make in Social Security, Medicaid and Medicare are promises we can keep. And there are various ways of doing that. One is, we can raise taxes on people. That
[Unidentified Male:] Corporations!
[Unidentified Female:] Corporations!
[Romney:] Of course they are. Everything corporations earn ultimately goes to people. Where do you think it goes? OK. So, number one, you can raise taxes. You can raise taxes. That's not the approach that I would take. Number two, you can make sure that the promises we make are promises that we can keep.
[Blitzer:] All right. A good exchange there. Let's talk about it in our "Strategy Session." Joining us, our CNN political contributor Roland Martin, and Republican strategist Leslie Sanchez. She's the founder and CEO of Impacto Group. That's a communications firm. Guys, thanks very much.
[Roland Martin, Cnn Political Contributor:] Glad to be here.
[Blitzer:] A tough he got into a little fight over there. What did you think of that exchange?
[Martin:] First of all, he should expect a lot more of that. Americans are not particularly happy when you have folks like General Electric not paying any taxes whatsoever, but your average working man and woman, folks who are out of work, having to pay as well. And so he is going to have to confront that, because he is going to be positioned as the CEO candidate. And so he has to address his history with Wall Street, and also running corporations, buying companies, but laying thousands of folks off.
[Blitzer:] Yes, General Electric last year making about $14 billion worldwide, $5 billion here in the United States, and not paying any federal income tax because of losses in previous years.
[Leslie Sanchez, Republican Strategist:] Sure. I mean, I think that's how the Democrats are going to frame it. I think the real issue he's talking about is corporations are made up of people, they are an amalgamation. You raise taxes on corporations, you're going to lower dividends, which affects shareholders, which is our 401 [k] s, our pensions, steel workers, everybody else. It deflates wages, the number of jobs that are there, and it actually doesn't help with a pro-growth strategy. That's what he's trying to say. Did he say it in the best way? No. Does it increase skepticism about people that were already skeptical about Romney? Yes.
[Martin:] But Wolf
[Blitzer:] I was just going to say, does Rick Perry's he's going to make the announcement jumping into this Republican race on Saturday. Does that does he automatically emerge as the major challenger to Mitt Romney?
[Sanchez:] Absolutely. He's a major challenger for everybody, including Barack Obama. This is the campaign that has been on standby, has the resources. It's been quietly, in many cases, talking to so many of those large donors who are out there. And they are increasingly feeling confident that their big donors are ready and available who were keeping their powder dry, so to speak. I think there's a lot of momentum. It will take off like a rocket. But the thing people do not understand a lot of times about Governor Perry is he is in it for the long haul. He's a very hard campaigner. He likes retail politics. He will be going door to door, and that's I think what people expect.
[Blitzer:] He's never lost a race in his life.
[Martin:] He hasn't lost a race. But, Leslie, I think you're jumping ahead of yourself. Before he begins to challenge President Obama, he needs to get the Republican primary first. And so no doubt, I think, stepping in, he also vaults to the top three, if you will, on the Republican side.
[Blitzer:] With Michele Bachmann.
[Martin:] Well, look, Michele Bachmann, we'll see what happens with the Ames straw poll. But the most fundamental thing is he still has to run. And so right now he looks great on paper. I think he will be a strong candidate. I don't think he will be like Fred Thompson was in 2008, Rudy Giuliani in 2008. But again, there's a difference between when you get out there and begin to campaign and then what happens on paper. Huge difference.
[Sanchez:] I think the difference, Roland, that we're talking about is these candidates know where the target is. The target is the economy and the leadership of President Obama. Yes, there's a primary. We're talking about constituencies and social conservatives and where the but he is coming at it with a very strong, proven record in Texas
[Martin:] No, I understand.
[Sanchez:] with the resources, and with a campaign team that has been with him since 1998.
[Martin:] I understand.
[Sanchez:] I talked to his pollster today. They said, should he decide to declare, they are committed, but they are going to be following his leadership.
[Blitzer:] He's got a lot of rich guys who support him.
[Martin:] Of course. But two former Texans who had tons of money and who flamed out as candidates, former governor John Connally, Senator Phil Gramm. Had tons of money, had the resources, but again, you still have to run.
[Sanchez:] Very true. Anything is possible. But let's look at the positives here. And it challenges other candidates. He gets 60 percent of Independent voters in the conservative states.
[Martin:] Right. He will be strong. He'll be strong.
[Sanchez:] The Independent voters being big, Hispanic voters being big, working class voters being big.
[Martin:] I'm saying you've got to run first.
[Blitzer:] Well, he's getting ready to run.
[Martin:] He's getting ready to run.
[Blitzer:] This weekend he'll be in South Carolina, New Hampshire and Iowa.
[Sanchez:] And Iowa.
[Blitzer:] He's running.
[Sanchez:] But Wolf, let's learn we will learn our lesson of anointing a candidate.
[Blitzer:] No one is
[Martin:] But when you say President Obama, ask Senator Clinton. She was anointed the candidate, the inevitable. She didn't win the nomination. You've got to win the nomination first.
[Sanchez:] I think we are far from anointing anybody on the right.
[Martin:] OK.
[Blitzer:] What do you think of this super committee now, this Gang of 12 that some are calling at least I'm calling it a gang Gang of 12? You can see the pictures right behind us. Six senators, six members of the House. You think by Thanksgiving they're going to be able to come up with a deal that would pass?
[Sanchez:] I think it's very noticeable with the Gang of 12. There is none of the Gang of 6. And I think that's what people are talking about, is how can we expect a lot of skepticism if this is the group that can really have compromise, bring people together, do the $1.2 trillion in cuts. I think there is a lot of skepticism right now, and it would have been nice to see more leadership if Minority Leader Pelosi had been on there, somebody who can really negotiate.
[Martin:] No. First of all, you don't need Boehner, Cantor, Pelosi on Steny Hoyer on this particular committee. But people have to remember, all it takes is seven votes. OK? And so we assume that six Democrats, six Republicans, there will be no compromise. No. You do have some hard-liners on this list, but you do have the opportunity for somebody to say, look, I'm not going to sit here and be so hard-lined. I can actually cross the aisle. If you have five Democrats, you pick up a couple Republicans, you've got seven.
[Blitzer:] I could easily see a situation and correct me if I'm wrong where you have all six Republicans not budging on raising taxes because they have signed that Grover Norquist pledge, no new taxes. They're not going to raise taxes, but they will make significant spending cuts. They need one Democrat who's going to cross over and join for a 7-5 vote. Max Baucus, for example, of Montana, could he be that Democrat? He voted for the Bush tax cuts back in 2001, 2003. Could he be that swing vote that would help the Republicans get a 7-5 majority, which would then bring it to the floor and the House, no amendments, no filibusters, and an up-or-down vote?
[Sanchez:] I think that you pointed to the right part of that, and that was the tax cut component. Be looking at a lot of the rates and such, and maybe some of the special loopholes that a lot of special interests have, looking at cutting those kinds of things, something that happened back in the '80s. Those are the kind of reforms I think Republicans and Democrats it's very difficult to make, but getting rid of a lot of those loopholes.
[Martin:] But the Republicans cannot keep talking about no tax cuts when the Bush tax cuts did contribute to the deficit. And so, look, the whole point
[Blitzer:] Could you see that 7-5 scenario?
[Martin:] I see any kind of 7-5 scenario. I don't necessarily see six Republicans saying absolutely nothing in tax cuts. We could sit here and dance all day around it. The CBO says it adds to the deficit. At the end of the day, if they think that they're going to do just
[Blitzer:] You think one of those Republicans might break the Grover Norquist pledge?
[Martin:] Look, I think when you have 12 people who have to be grownups, someone has tell Grover Norquist
[Blitzer:] So the answer is yes, you can see that?
[Martin:] Absolutely. Because
[Blitzer:] Anyone want to guess which Republican would do that?
[Martin:] No. First of all, you can't guess right now because you don't know the dynamics of the negotiation and what happens. I do believe though you will have the Republican who tells Grover Norquist, you are unelected, I am, this is for the good of the country.
[Blitzer:] All right. We'll know by Thanksgiving, guys.
[Sanchez:] We will.
[Blitzer:] Thank you. Jack Cafferty is asking, what does it mean when the British and especially the French governments work harder than America's government? He will be back with "The Cafferty File." And valuable lessons from Apple for businesses around the country after the high-tech giant's value hits a new high.