[Wolf Blitzer, Cnn Anchor:] Now on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS, John Walker Lindh sees his parents.
[Frank Lindh, John Walker Lindh's Father:] John loves America.
[Blitzer:] And hears the charges against him.
[John Ashcroft, Attorney General:] John Walker chose to join terrorists who wanted to kill Americans.
[Blitzer:] Did al Qaeda have a secret nuclear program? We'll have an exclusive report on documents recovered from the rubble. Dangerous cargo: could a weapon of mass destruction reach a U.S. port in a shipping container? We're on the waterfront.
[Unidentified Male:] Enron robbed the bank. Arthur Andersen provided the getaway car, and they say you were at the wheel.
[Blitzer:] A fired auditor won't talk to Congress, but find out how the Enron chief invested his money. Hello. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. We are monitoring a developing story happening in suburban Washington, D.C. Right now, 13 children are waiting to be picked up after their school bus went more than 100 miles off its route and crossed state lines. Inside the bus: a loaded rifle and a disturbed driver. Police are trying to piece together the facts at this hour. We'll have live reports coming up shortly. We're also standing by for a news conference from the FBI, who's on the scene. They're monitoring the development as well. When that news conference happens, we'll take it live. First, this hour's latest developments. The American who joined Taliban fighters in Afghanistan made his first court appearance today. Asked if he understood charges that he conspired to kill his fellow Americans, John Walker Lindh replied, "Yes, I do." If convicted, Walker Lindh faces life in prison. We'll have much more on this in a moment. In Afghanistan, U.S. Army special forces attacked two Taliban compounds today, killing about 12 fighters and taking 27 prisoners. The Pentagon says an American soldier was wounded, but his injury is not life-threatening. The fighting happened some 35 miles north of Kandahar. President Bush is proposing to roughly double spending on homeland security, to almost $38 billion in the next fiscal year. Speaking to the nation's mayors, Mr. Bush also promised much more help to local fire, police and rescue departments. A fired Arthur Andersen auditor refused to testify today at the opening of a Congressional hearing on the Enron scandal. David Duncan invoked his fifth amendment rights against self-incrimination when asked about the destruction of Enron documents. Other Andersen officials say Duncan ordered the shredding campaign on his own. Duncan has said he acted on the advice of Andersen lawyers. More now on the American who fought with the Taliban in Afghanistan. John Walker Lindh, who just returned to the United States from Afghanistan last night, faced a federal judge for the first time today. CNN national correspondent, Susan Candiotti, is covering the story. She joins us now live from outside the federal courthouse in Alexandria, Virginia Susan.
[Susan Candiotti, Cnn National Correspondent:] Hello, Wolf. Far away from the war zone in Afghanistan, John Walker Lindh found himself in a courtroom in Alexandria, Virginia, wearing a dark jumpsuit with the word "prisoner" written on the back.
[Fbi. James Brosnahan, Defense Attorney:] He began requesting a lawyer almost immediately, which would have been December 2nd or 3rd. For 54 days, he was held incommunicado.
[John Ashcroft, Attorney General:] He chose to waive his right to an attorney, both orally and in writing, before his statement to the FBI. Mr. Walker will be held responsible in the courtroom for his choices.
[Candiotti:] Legal experts call Walker's statement to the FBI crucial to the government's case. In it, he allegedly admits training in al Qaeda camps and being told about planned suicide attacks in the U.S. Also part of the government's case: a CNN interview with Walker Lindh shot shortly after his capture. Both pieces of evidence expected to be challenged by his lawyers. Walker Lindh met his parents for about 20 minutes before the hearing, separated by a mesh screen in a small room, with an FBI agent present.
[Marilyn Walker, John Walker's Mother:] It's been two years since I last saw my son. It was wonderful to see him this morning. My love for him is unconditional and absolute.
[Frank Lindh, John Walker's Father:] John did not take up arms against America. He never meant to harm any American, and he never did harm any American. John is innocent of these charges.
[Candiotti:] For now, Walker Lindh is being held in this city jail, confined to a 7.5 x 7.5 cell, equipped with a bed, sink and toilet, joined to a common area with a TV.
[Blitzer:] Susan, in the next few days, what is immediately scheduled? What happens with Walker Lindh next?
[Candiotti:] Within a couple of weeks, on February 6th specifically, he is next scheduled to appear in court for what is called a bond hearing, to determine whether he can continue to be held without bond, and a preliminary hearing. However, sources say it is possible he could be indicted by a grand jury before then.
[Blitzer:] Susan Candiotti, thanks for that report. And joining us now with a closer look at the legal issues involved in the John Walker Lindh case, former Justice Department official she was a federal prosecutor, Victoria Toensing, and criminal defense attorney, Jeralyn Merritt. She joins us from Denver. Thanks to both of you for joining us. Jeralyn, let me begin with you. The argument that the defense attorney makes for John Walker Lindh, that they didn't allow an attorney present. That he wanted an attorney, and didn't waive his rights. How does the judge deal with that specific issue, which seems to be at the heart of an immediate dispute between the prosecution and the criminal defense attorney?
[Jeralyn Merritt, Criminal Defense Attorney:] That is probably going to be the most critical issue in the case. And what the judge will have to decide is whether he knowingly and intelligently waived his right to counsel. And the court will use a totality of the circumstance test, including looking at all of the circumstances of his confinement and his physical condition, and his mental condition. And if the court finds that his waiver of a right to a lawyer was not made with a full understanding of the nature of the right that he was giving up and the consequences of that decision, the court may well decide the statements were not voluntary and therefore, inadmissible.
[Blitzer:] Victoria, what about that? What if he was on painkillers? He was, as you can see in the CNN interview that he had, he was obviously hurt. Was he of mind to make that kind of decision, to waive his right to an attorney?
[Victoria Toensing, Former Federal Prosecutor:] Well, of course, all those facts will come out at a hearing, Wolf. There's no indication that was a problem so far. And the FBI, we hope, is professional enough to know that he should not have been on something that was going to be a detriment to his waiver. We're pretty experienced here in the United States, about making sure that you're not on any drugs when you write out such a waiver. The CNN interview, though, is very crucial, because here is John Walker. Maybe he was in pain, but I mean, fully wanting to talk about his situation and giving all kinds of information to the CNN reporter. And I think that will be a factor that the judge will look at. He wasn't hesitant at all, to speak about this previous waiver to the
[Fbi. Blitzer:] But nowhere in the CNN interview. Victoria, does he say he wants to kill Americans, or that's his goal.
[Toensing:] Well, of course, that's not going to be the evidence that's being used to show that he's going to kill Americans. A conspiracy is an agreement. And by the very fact that he was out marching with people who were out to kill Americans is sufficient, legally, to show a conspiracy to do so.
[Blitzer:] What about that, Jeralyn Merritt? Is this a slam-dunk case, this first charge of conspiring to kill Americans?
[Merritt:] No, I don't think it's slam dunk at all. And I think the complaint against him itself states that at the training camps he was given a choice between fighting against American and Israeli interests, and fighting in Afghanistan against the Northern Alliance. And he clearly chose to fight against the Northern Alliance. So I don't know that there's any evidence that he conspired to kill Americans.
[Toensing:] But he said very well that he knew and this is in his statement to the FBI that he was aware that the Taliban was against not only Americans, but the Saudi Arabian government. That he was aware of the September 11th attack, and he was aware that al Qaeda had sent suicide bombers to the United States pretty damning words. No case is a slam dunk, Wolf, I can tell you that, never, ever, ever. But it's pretty strong evidence if these statements come in.
[Blitzer:] Go ahead, Jeralyn.
[Merritt:] I was just going to say, Victoria, he also did not want to fight against Americans. He was fighting against the Northern Alliance. And the fact that he knew about the September 11 attacks after they happened doesn't make him a participant in those acts. And the fact that he knew that bin Laden was going to send suicide bombers to the U.S. doesn't mean that he knew the nature, or that they were going to attack the World Trade Center. In fact, bin Laden himself said that many of the suicide bombers didn't even though they were on a suicide mission until afterwards.
[Toensing:] He could look up and see airplanes that are from his own country, and know. If he had left, Jeralyn, before he had left the army and quit fighting prior to September 11th, or even prior to October 7th, when our forces started over there and it was clear they were fighting the Americans, then there would not be a case. But, having stayed after that, he was captured the end of November I think it was November 25th there is certain, strong evidence that he knew he was fighting his own country.
[Blitzer:] Let me ask both of you, because you have a lot of experience in plea agreements who has a greater desire in this particular case? Try to spoke objectively, I'll begin with you, Jeralyn. Who has a better desire to see a plea agreement reached that would avoid a full-scale trial, a plea agreement in which he would cooperate fully with the government?
[Merritt:] I think both sides have an incentive to do that. First of all, if he were to plead guilty to anything, the federal sentencing guidelines would apply. And he has cooperated, and so that would justify a departure from the guidelines and a lesser sentence for him. I also think the government might benefit from a plea agreement and from avoiding a protracted trial, and to let him plead guilty to something that would hold him accountable for any misconduct he engaged in. But not also be to the extent that we're seeking revenge instead of justice for him.
[Blitzer:] What about that, Victoria?
[Toensing:] We should never seek revenge. I don't think that's what our criminal justice system is all about. What Jeralyn and I do agree on is that both sides are better off if there's an agreement, a plea agreement. So let's hope that that's what occurs. But if he doesn't, Jeralyn, then he's going to have to get credit for the cooperation, say that his statements to the FBI were being helpful, and not done under duress.
[Blitzer:] On that note, I want to thank both of you for your analysis. Victoria Toensing and Jeralyn Merritt, appreciate it very much. And our on-line quick vote asks, "Can John Walker Lindh get a fair trial?" So far, as you can see, the vast majority says "yes." Cast your vote at cnn.com. The AOL keyword is CNN. And remember, this poll is not scientific. Back in Afghanistan, an extraordinary find: a host of documents that appear to be training manuals for al Qaeda members, with notes on everything from high explosives to nuclear bomb making. And for the past two months, CNN national correspondent, Mike Boettcher, has been busy deciphering them, with the help of experts. Mike joins us now from Atlanta with details. What have you learned from all of these documents, Mike?
[Mike Boettcher, Cnn Correspondent:] Well, Wolf, we've gone through hundreds, if not thousands of pages of documents, with some top nuclear and weapons experts, and a top Arabic translator. And we were going through documents like this, Wolf. And this says in this blue magic marker written on a notepad, it says "superbomb." And inside were all sorts of different plans for conventional and nuclear weapons. The bottom line is, in these documents, it appears, and according to our experts analyzing them, they were surprised at the depth of knowledge that al Qaeda had, that they were definitely on track on a program to try to build a bomb, although they weren't there yet. But they also had capabilities to build what was known as a dirty bomb, which is a conventional explosion that spreads radioactive material over a broad area. It's not a nuclear explosion, but it does contaminate an area. As well, there were other pages dealing with conventional weapons. All sorts of pages. You're looking right there, Wolf. Let me give you the translation of that diagram there. It says "enriching uranium by using laser beams." So, they had achieved a level of knowledge. Now, you have to take that further. They would have to come up with things like plutonium and machinery in order to mill certain parts of the weapon, which they didn't have that is the belief. So, we have to bank on that belief, Wolf.
[Blitzer:] And, Mike, I've heard top Bush administration officials, experts, intelligence officials, say they believe that al Qaeda operatives were attempting to develop some sort of crude nuclear device. They don't know how close they might have gotten. They don't believe they got very close. Does the information that you've gathered suggest they were closer than perhaps previously thought?
[Boettcher:] They were further along in their knowledge curve than previously thought. Now, the gap is, were they able to obtain nuclear materials like plutonium. It's not believed that they were able to obtain that yet. And some of their plans, Wolf, frankly didn't work. Like here's a little plan right here. Now, you can't see it, but at the top is a little diagram. It's not workable. They were nonworkable designs. But they were looking for shortcuts, and had found some shortcuts to get around problems they couldn't solve by acquiring material conventionally around the world. So they were being pretty clever in their research. But again, U.S. authorities and other coalition authorities believe they have not built any bomb.
[Blitzer:] And I know that you have information about other conventional weapons that the al Qaeda were looking for. Any bomb shells, if you'll forgive the pun, that you found there?
[Boettcher:] Oh, yes. They were making their own brand of C-4. They were taking conventional explosives, high explosives, and trying to make them better. For example, they had diagrams on where to put an explosive in an airplane in order to blow it up. There were other graphics showing how to place explosives presumably, plastic explosives in a tower to blow it up. Also, here is a diagram of how they believe they could blow up a bridge. So they were far along in how to deploy these weapons. And also, they were very far along on making sophisticated weapons, explosives, out of material that could be bought out in the open market.
[Blitzer:] And, Mike, briefly tell our viewers how CNN obtained these documents.
[Boettcher:] Well, in those confusing days in mid November, when the Taliban and al Qaeda were leaving Kabul, CNN producer Ingrid Arneson took the initiative and went out into the neighborhoods with the help of Afghan authorities who remained behind, and people familiar with the houses, and said we want to show you the houses where the Arabs lived. They escorted her to those houses, and several of them, she found these documents lying around, some in the garbage. These are documents left behind, which makes you wonder what they took with them.
[Blitzer:] OK, Mike Boettcher, thanks for that report. Fascinating material. And to our viewers, this note. You can watch Mike Boettcher's complete report tonight, as Martin Savidge anchors our "LIVE FROM AFGHANISTAN." That's at 8:00 Eastern, 5:00 Pacific. A lot more details coming up in Mike Boettcher's report on that program. And for more perspective on these documents linked to al Qaeda, we turn now to Gary Milhollin. He's the director of the Wisconsin Project on Nuclear Arms Control. Gary, as usual, thanks for joining us. What did we learn from this series of documents? I know you've had a chance to review some of the material that Mike Boettcher and his team collected. It does suggest that they may have been more advanced than we previously thought.
[Gary Milhollin, Wis. Project Nuclear Arms Control:] What it shows is that they certainly have an appetite. They want to get a nuclear weapon, they have been looking around for the ingredients. They've been thinking about designs. And they've obviously been giving it some thought. So, even though we don't have any evidence that they have the machinery or the materials or the people, or the time necessary to make a nuclear weapon, the fact that they're interested and working at it is disturbing.
[Blitzer:] And the fact that they had a sophisticated knowledge of what it would require would be very disturbing as well?
[Milhollin:] Yes. There are people in the world that could help you. And one of the big question marks is, how many of these people have they been talking to? There's a lot of information open in the public domain, which you can get from the Internet. But you can't get the techniques and you can't overcome the problems without expert help.
[Blitzer:] The fact that they were looking for uranium deposits in Afghanistan, what does that suggest to you?
[Milhollin:] Well, it suggests to me that they wanted to become independent. They wanted to have their own source of uranium. They wanted to have their own source of brain power. And it wouldn't be long before they started figuring out how to have their own source of manufacturing capabilities.
[Blitzer:] And, walk our viewers through the process, the step between the brain power, assuming they had some smart nuclear physicists on board supporting them. There have been reports, as you know, Pakistanis who worked on Pakistan's nuclear program, had moved over to Afghanistan to work with al Qaeda and the Taliban. How much of a leap forward does it take from the knowledge, the expertise, to actually developing a crude device?
[Milhollin:] It takes a tremendous leap. The biggest problem is to produce or acquire the nuclear material, either the plutonium or high-enriched uranium. And that stuff is not easy to make. I think it would be impossible, virtually impossible, for a terrorist group to actually produce that material. If they managed to steal it or buy it on the world market, then that brings them a giant step closer. But this material is carefully protected, and I think it is unlikely that they would be able to get their hands on the material they would need.
[Blitzer:] All right. That was then. Since then, since these documents, of course, have been found, al Qaeda's on the run, Osama bin Laden is still on the run. The network has been dispersed, presumably, the Taliban regime has been destroyed. Do you sense that there's still a lingering capability that they might have to develop some sort of crude nuclear device?
[Milhollin:] What they would need would be a sanctuary. They need a place where they can put material, people and equipment together, and keep them there for a period of time, probably undetected. If we prevent them from having that, they're going to have a very difficult time.
[Blitzer:] But the other point that Mike Boettcher made, which you and our viewers heard, that in the conventional area, they did have some pretty impressive capabilities.
[Milhollin:] That's the immediate threat, it seems to me. They know how to use high explosives, they have dedicated people and have trained thousands of them. And we have to assume they're still out there and they're still looking for targets.
[Blitzer:] OK, Gary Milhollin, thanks again for joining us.
[Milhollin:] Thank you.
[Blitzer:] No one knows more about this stuff than you do. Appreciate it. And, what information has been gathered to prevent fresh terrorist attacks on U.S. interests? The Senate intelligence committee chairman, Bob Graham, joins me later tonight in the CNN "WAR ROOM." That's at 7:00 Eastern, 4:00 Pacific. And you can participate. Just go to my Web site, cnn.comwolf. Click on "send questions." I'll get as many of them answered by my guests as possible. Enron's accountants are taken to task on Capitol Hill, while Enron's CEO quits, but not before making some big stock deals. Find out what he bought and sold before Enron went down. That's at the half-hour. But up next, the school bus that missed more than just one stop. The kids from Pennsylvania who wound up near Washington, D.C. Stay with us.