[Anderson Cooper, Cnn Host, Anderson Cooper 360:] -Chris for CUOMO PRIME TIME. Chris?
[Chris Cuomo, Cnn Host, Cuomo Prime Time:] Thank you very much, Anderson. I am Chris Cuomo and welcome to PRIME TIME. We have breaking news on our watch. So, let's get after it.
[Text: Cuomo Prime Time. Unidentified Male:] This is CNN Breaking News.
[Text:] BREAKING NEWS.
[Cuomo:] All right big news big news. The Washington Post just reported remember that weird meeting at the White House with President Trump and the Russians and Rex Tillerson where the Russians kind of laughed at the American media as they sauntered in to this meeting with the President and other officials? Well The Post reports that our President told the Russians in that meeting that he wasn't concerned about Moscow's interference in the U.S. election because, his reasoning went, the U.S. did the same thing in other countries. Let me quote directly from the Post reporting. Here's what we're well look, that's the gist of the story, all right? Now, why does this matter now? Here's how it fits in. It's part of the bigger story. It seems that it's not just the call with Ukraine that the White House tried to keep secret. The memo and the readouts about what the President said to these Russians was also something that was secreted away. So, you can add it to calls between President Trump and the Saudi Crown Prince, Mohammad Bin Salman and between the President and Vladimir Putin. Why? These are certainly unusual moves that must be explained. It's not clear if those calls were given the same level of super- secrecy that we now know came with the call to Ukraine's President, where the President asked for an investigation of the Bidens. But it is another crack in a wall of silence. There was an even bigger blow, I would argue, today, shedding light on mounting concern in the White House. The U.S. Special Envoy to Ukraine, Kurt Volker resigned today, just one day after the whistleblower report came out. Why? Also, not clear yet. But he is mentioned in that whistleblower complaint. And we're going to look at how Volker fits into this evermore tangled web around this President and his lawyer in just a little bit. But, right now, I want to get to a Congresswoman whose words may have helped drive Speaker Pelosi's decision to conduct an impeachment inquiry.
[Text:] ONE ON ONE.
[Cuomo:] Representative Elissa Slotkin joins me now on PRIME TIME. It is good to have you.
[Rep. Elissa Slotkin:] Thanks for having me.
[Cuomo:] And I would ask you to exercise judgment that has two hats, one, your experience working with the government, in the Intelligence field, and as a lawmaker now with responsibility to your constituents. When you hear this first report, give me your reaction on two fronts, one, the idea of the President saying that to the Russians, and two, that type of information being kept somewhat secret.
[Slotkin:] Yes. I mean, listen, I also worked at the National Security Council under both Presidents Bush and President Obama, so I'm I'm aware of kind of how normal procedure goes. And I think there's no way around it just the breaking of norms and traditions that has gone on from the very beginning is just it's a little hard to take. And, you know, I think the President, back in 2017, clearly didn't understand what we do and do not do in other people's elections, and was flippant about it. And now, of course, many, many things, many months have gone by, and we know a lot more about the story. But, to be honest with you, I think a lot of this stuff that we're talking about now, it's it's there are details that are part of the story, but it it sort of gets caught in the details when we don't focus on the big picture. And the big picture-
[Cuomo:] I agree with you. I agree with you.
[Slotkin:] Yes.
[Cuomo:] So, let's transition to that.
[Slotkin:] Yes.
[Cuomo:] Because his statements to the Russians write it off to ignorance or flippancy, as you say. But the arrogance of creating a two-tiered system of how you protect information, you know, it's no coincidence to me that the Washington Post is finding out what happened in that meeting now that there's all this exposure about this other system. Now, have you heard about this other system, the password system-
[Slotkin:] Sure.
[Cuomo:] -that the Ukraine call was in? Is that something that you guys do in the Intelligence world or they do at the NSC?
[Slotkin:] So so, again, at the NSC, there are multiple types of systems, some for unclassified information, some for classified, and then some for what's called codeword, which is really exceptionally classified, compartmented information that even people with a top secret clearance don't necessarily get to see. And what, you know, breaks with, you know, some Executive Orders is anyone taking information from the unclassified system that has no reason to be classified, and putting it in one of those higher-level systems. Because I learned on my first day as a CIA officer, there are many, many different strict ways you can classify information. But embarrassing information, politically-sensitive information that is not classified information. So, what they did by moving it wasn't right. I still think, you know, the that it keeps us in the weeds a little bit from the bigger story, which is what the President did to use his leverage to get dirt on a political opponent. That is the story that is the big thing here that was different enough for myself, and my fellow national security freshman, to come out for an impeachment inquiry. But, you know, we're we're doing a methodical process now. I'm really glad to see that a number of the Committee members are staying behind. They've been asked to stay behind, here in Washington, to follow through with some of the-
[Cuomo:] Instead of recess.
[Slotkin:] Yes, instead of recess, because it shows a different process. But I I just I think that one of the things that we've been losing, you know, in the past couple of months on this, is we're not bringing the American people along with this story, you know. The drip, drip, drip of information on this thing, or that thing, it's all it's important. But we got to be able to bring people along, so it's not a Washington Insider baseball story.
[Cuomo:] Fine. But, you know, you guys have a challenge because you're telling a new story now. I get that this is new information about Ukraine. But, you know, but for months, Democrats were saying "We already have enough. This is already obstruction. And we're we're fighting with ourselves to figure out what to call it, but we already know we have enough." Now, you don't even want to talk about any of that stuff anymore. It's only about Ukraine. You know, that could send a message to people as well, Congressman. You worried about that?
[Slotkin:] I think it's I I think that putting the country through something like an impeachment inquiry is such a serious thing that we shouldn't do it lightly. For me, this was not something I ever came to Congress to do. It's not something I go into gleefully or lightly at all. So, for me, it just it crossed a certain threshold that has to do with national security. It is different. And-
[Cuomo:] Explain that because here's what people are saying to me all the time.
[Slotkin:] Sure.
[Cuomo:] And look at it in this context because you're new to this particular world even with all the Intel experience. Now, you're in the world of complete perfidy, where nobody expects any integrity on any level from anybody, sadly, and I hope that changes.
[Slotkin:] So sad.
[Cuomo:] But they say they all do what he did. Look, Biden did it with his son. And we course-correct as much as we can where the facts tell us. But people say, "This is what they do, and now you're going to throw somebody out of Office for doing what the industry norm is in Washington?"
[Slotkin:] Yes.
[Cuomo:] What do you say?
[Slotkin:] I say it's not the industry norm. It is not the industry norm for the Commander-in-Chief, the most powerful man in the world, to reach out to a junior partner nation, and leverage that for dirt on a political opponent. That is not normal. Imagine a Democratic President reaching out to China or North Korea and doing the same thing. The precedent that's being set here, it just is different. And it's also about the future, not about the past, right? It's about the 2020 elections, not 2016, so there's an urgency about it. It is different. And that's why even though it's not something that I ever wanted to do, we and, you know, a a number of us came out this week. It is different. And we have to remember that there's strategically important and there's tactically important. Keep it at the strategic level.
[Cuomo:] Are you equally concerned, as others, in the Caucus now, that the call is not all, they keep saying to me. It is just a window into something that was a year in the making, many months in the making, involves the State Department, people in the White House, on multiple levels, and what they were telling people in Congress about why funding was being held, how they were changing different standards of classification to protect, what access Mr. Giuliani was being given, as we saw with the texts that he released about Mr. Volker, who just resigned. How many different layers are you considering in making your case to the American people about what this rises to as an abuse?
[Slotkin:] I think that we need to do a thorough investigation. We are starting that next week. I think we need to look into the details and we need to be methodical about it. We can't be jumping the gun on anything. That doesn't mean the whole kitchen sink goes into this conversation.
[Cuomo:] Some in your party say you want to vote next month. You think that's possible?
[Slotkin:] I think that we should let the investigation play out, and let the facts drive the conversation. And and I'm not I'm not foreclosing anything. I do think the process needs to be strategic, clear, and efficient.
[Cuomo:] What's the standard? How bad does it have to be to justify saying that this President should lose what the what the people gave him?
[Slotkin:] I think that if the President has put his own personal or political gain above the security of the country that meets the criteria of an impeachable offense, to me. And and, listen, I I no one wants to be going through this. But we are pushed to a point where to preserve the the Constitution and our democratic elections, we need to do this, and we need to inquire and figure out what happened. And I think that we have to have certain standards and norms. I I I don't think that it's a crazy thing to look into this as a very different matter. And I think only this and only something that challenges my oath to protect and defend the Constitution would have brought me to this place.
[Cuomo:] So, you believe it is a legitimate question as to whether or not this President jeopardized the national security of the United States in doing what he did with Ukraine?
[Slotkin:] I think that is what is on the table and we need to figure that out, yes.
[Cuomo:] What does it mean to you that Volker stepped down, the Special Envoy to Ukraine? He was working as a volunteer. He's also at the McCain Institute there, wearing two hats. This is somewhat atypical. He kind of stepped in to a there's a big hole there in Ukraine diplomatic corps. So, he steps down right after the whistleblower complaint comes out that he was mentioned in.
[Slotkin:] Yes.
[Cuomo:] Doesn't look good.
[Slotkin:] I mean, for me, I think it's important, I think it's interesting that he's stepping down because I think it allows him to be freed up, to have a real conversation. I think he will undoubtedly be called in to give his side of the story, to talk about what he knows in front of the, you know, U.S. Congress, and I think it's better to do that as a private citizen than someone who is still in the employ of this Administration who's-
[Cuomo:] Although, you know, that with Corey Lewandowski, as you know, Congresswoman, they tried to you know, Lewandowski said they're exercising their Executive Privilege. He never even worked in the White House. If they did it with Lewandowski, they could do it with him, but the rule's always been clear. I guess you could litigate it. But the rule has been clear. If you're not working there anymore, you're not under the privilege anymore.
[Slotkin:] Well let's all hope that not every witness is like Mr. Lewandowski. I I think that Ambassador Volker is a serious professional, and he understands that this is a crisis right now, and that he owes his clear and objective responses to Congress.
[Cuomo:] What do you make, in your analysis, with your experience in the Intelligence Community, of Mr. Giuliani? Now, one problem is he told me he was doing this on his own, and I asked him specifically, "Are you working under color of authority of the President," certainly the State Department would fit into that, he said "No." Then later, he said-
[Slotkin:] Yes.
[Cuomo:] -"Yes," he is working with the State Department. He seems to be telling the truth. Those texts he put out with Volker seemed to suggest he was working. Is there a situation or a circumstance where that is OK for a civilian to be working with the State Department, doing these types of things with Ukraine?
[Slotkin:] It's it's highly unusual. I I don't know if it's been done in the past, but it is highly unusual, not something I've seen in 15 years in government. And again, I think, mixing political and personal with professional and national security issues is always a dangerous game, and never worth it. And I think that it's been cloudy at best, starting with your interview with Mr. Giuliani. And I think he's acknowledged the very basic topline fact here, which is that the President used his leverage on Ukraine to get them to provide some dirt on a political opponent. He acknowledged it, in front of you, in front of everyone else. And and that's what's changed for me is that they were open about it. They didn't seem to be shameful about it. And I just cannot accept that as an Army wife, as the mom of a of a stepdaughter in the Army, the Commander-in-Chief can't be doing that.
[Cuomo:] It is interesting how many of you heard Rudy Giuliani lay out the Biden case as flagrantly as he did, treat the facts the way he did, use the tone that he did, and it started to make you think differently about what you had to do in this situation. That certainly was not his intention. Congresswoman Elissa Slotkin, thank you so much for offering your perspective. You have an open invitation to come here. The American people need to know. As you said, they have to be brought along every step of the way.
[Slotkin:] Yes.
[Cuomo:] Thank you for doing so tonight, especially on a Friday.
[Slotkin:] Thank you.
[Cuomo:] Although, to be honest, there are no more Fridays. It's like every night is a big night now. Tonight, we're learning a lot about the lengths the White House went to, to conceal details of the President's calls and conversations. You just heard someone who worked in the Intelligence Community, and at the NSC, she said, "I I I wasn't aware that people were doing this kind of stuff." She'd be aware! The question is why are they doing this? Two reporters, who are all over this story, with some insight, next.
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