[Dr. Sanjay Gupta, Cnn Chief Medical Correspondent:] And I think the World Health Organization has been the most optimistic about. We've been talking to lots of researchers, Elizabeth and I, around the world. There's a big trial that's part of this 152-center trial that's happening right here at Emory University as well. So I'm sure we're going to get more data maybe from some of these specific sites as well, but this is obviously the news, and it's the best news I think we've heard in terms of a therapeutic in some time.
[John King, Cnn:] Best news in terms of therapeutic in some time. Dr. Brilliant said optimistic, we've heard these announcements. Is there a dose of skepticism there or do you have confidence that they would not have announced this unless they were certain that it at least helps?
[Dr. Larry Brilliant, Epidemiologist:] Are you asking me, John?
[King:] I was asking Sanjay. I was noting your optimism. But you're more than welcome to jump in.
[Brilliant:] Go ahead, Sanjay.
[Gupta:] Okay. I saw you on the screen, and I always love to hear from the brilliant Larry Brilliant. But, yes, I think Larry said he's, by nature an optimist, and I think I would probably say that as well. But, you know, we've been following the story along for some time. And I think there is a real desire for good news, understandably. And I think this is some good news. I mean, under other circumstances, John, we wouldn't be talking about this on your program. It's early study. It wasn't a huge difference between the placebo group and the other group, but it was significant enough in a time when we don't have something else to obviously talk about it. But I don't want to be throwing cold water on this by any means. I just we like to proceed cautiously. And we've also got to make sure in larger and larger groups of people this doesn't cause some sort of problem. I don't anticipate that it should, but that's why you do studies.
[King:] And so, Dr. Brilliant, what happens now? American people are watching this. They saw Dr. Fauci in the Oval Office. They saw the president say this is hopeful, a building block. What happens to people like yourself right now when the phone starts ringing and patients, either somebody who maybe has COVID, who's saying, should I take this now, or somebody else might be saying, well, will it help me prevent getting COVID? What happens in the real-life experience now that the American people hear there might be something that helps?
[Brilliant:] As the months go on and we learn more about COVID, we realize it is really truly an awful disease. It is respiratory and spread, but by no means is this a respiratory disease, if we compare it to influenza or anything like that. It is so bad that we're going to be in a and we are, for people who have this disease in an area of desperation. And the old saw is weak tea is better than no tea at all.
[King:] Interesting way to put it, Dr. Brilliant, Dr. Gupta, Elizabeth Cohen as well, thanks for helping us analyze that breaking news at the White House. Dr. Fauci saying the drug remdesivir shows some progress in battling COVID-19 in patients. Our coverage continues with Brooke Baldwin right now. Have a good day.
[Brooke Baldwin, Cnn Anchor:] John King, we'll take it from here. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you so much for being with me. And I want to continue the conversation that they've been on this massive development in the fight against coronavirus. This is a big deal. Moments ago, the nation's top infectious disease expert expressed not just optimism but enthusiasm about a medication to treat COVID. It is called remdesivir. And Dr. Anthony Fauci is calling the result of this randomly controlled study, more than 1,000 people, quote, quite good news. In fact, he's speaking about it early so that other patients can get it right away. He says that these early trials show the drug can actually block the virus. So, let's stay on this, because we all could use some good news when it comes to making sick people better. With me now, I have Sanjay is back, Elizabeth Cohen. Sanjay Gupta is back, Elizabeth Cohen is back and Dr. Kathleen Neuzil is with us. She is the Director of the Center for Vaccine Development and Global Health at the University of Maryland School of Medicine. And she's currently working on two coronavirus therapies, one of which could become a potential vaccine, vaccine separate from remdesivir. And, Sanjay, let me just start with you, because, listen, I know, I've been out the last couple weeks, so I'm not entirely hip on remdesivir and I'm getting caught up just like so many other people. And so this is a drug, and you're the boss, so you explain, but this is a drug that, let's say someone has coronavirus, and for me, it lasted two weeks. This is something that one could take. And then it sounds like, according to Dr. Fauci, you just get better sooner if you take this drug, according to this trial. Is that right?
[Gupta:] Yes, that's right, Brooke. And, you know, typically, when we do think of antivirals, like Tamiflu, for example, it's not the same really as an antibiotic, but it can lessen the duration and lessen the severity of the disease, which is, you're absolutely right, in some ways, how Dr. Fauci was presenting his thoughts on remdesivir. I haven't seen the data yet on this. And I think we're all going to need to want to really dig into the data, although Dr. Fauci, obviously, talking about it in the way that he did, saying it was quite good news, saying it should become standard of care based on what he's seeing. I think it still seems like a small study. And Elizabeth, I know, and I have both been following this very closely, I mean, there was a report just last week that was not as optimistic about remdesivir. It was a report that was put on the World Health Organization Web site for a little bit and then taken down, and it was subsequently thought to be an underpowered study. This is a larger study than the ones we've seen, although still small. It wasn't a knockout punch, I don't feel, in terms of what it can do. And I'm not trying to sound pessimistic, Brooke.
[Baldwin:] No, you're being realistic and that's why we care. Yes.
[Gupta:] Yes. And I think we also have to make sure as we, potentially and now it's going to start getting used by a lot of people, especially after what Dr. Fauci said today, we need to make sure in these larger groups of people that it doesn't cause any kind of problem as well. You know, that's one of the reasons you go through these various phases of trials.
[Baldwin:] I know, we all want to have this hope and this fix, and this may or may not be it. I want to get to Elizabeth, to you, and Dr. Neuzil in just a second, but let me play this so in case you're just tuning in, you missed what Dr. Fauci just said at the White House. Let's roll it.
[Dr. Anthony Fauci, Director, National Institute Of Allergy And Infectious Diseases:] Remdesivir has a clear-cut, significant, positive effect in diminishing the time to recovery. This is really quite important. It is a very important proof of concept because what it has proven is that a drug can block this virus.
[Baldwin:] So, again, you hear that, Elizabeth. And, listen, I'm very careful because I also have Sanjay in one ear being the realist here. How promising do you think this is? What do you make of Dr. Fauci's words?
[Elizabeth Cohen, Cnn Senior Medical Correspondent:] So I'm going to join Dr. Fauci in his optimism and also join Sanjay in his caution. I think it's possible to do both at the same time. And let's look specifically at what these numbers are, what this study of more than 1,000 patients in the U.S. and other countries showed, is that when you look at mortality rate, the mortality rate on people who were on a placebo, a pill that does nothing, it was 11 percent. When you look at the mortality rate on remdesivir, it was eight percent. Dr. Fauci noted that that did not turn out to be statistically significant. But when you look at the duration of illness, which is how long it took for people to get discharged, he said that was statistically significant. And on placebo, it was 11 days I'm sorry, on remdesivir, it was 11 days, and on placebo, it was 15. So it cut the duration of that illness by four days. So, here's where the optimism comes in. It's a proof of principle. It did something. This drug did something. And so we should put everyone on it because it did something. Here's where the caution comes in. This is not a cure. Terribly sick people did not jump out of their hospital beds and start walking around. That didn't happen. This is not a cure. But it does appear to help. It does appear to have a proof of a concept, and we can go from here to expand on that.
[Baldwin:] And, again, just for people who are wrapping their heads around this, Dr. Neuzil, I know your work is in vaccines. This is about this drug, remdesivir, this is about making sick people better faster, so says the top doc in the country. And so this has nothing to do with getting people a vaccine. That said, this is your realm of expertise. How do you see this?
[Dr. Kathleen Neuzil, Director, University Of Maryland School Of Medicine's Center For Vaccine Development:] Well, here at the University of Maryland, we did participate in this trial. And this medicine was given to sick people who were in the hospital, who had lung abnormalities, and that's a really tough test. And so, for an antiviral to work in a positive way in these very sick patients, to me, is indeed very good news.
[Baldwin:] Wow. I mean, so you're talking about those who were sitting in the hospital, this took a suffocating hold on their lungs, and the fact that they got better. How will we know? I get that this is just a trial, but for everyone sitting there at home thinking, all right, this sounds great, you know, how much more needs to be done, testing- wise, Dr. Neuzil? And to Sanjay's point, you know, it's so it's still so soon to know if there's anything negative, any sort of negative reaction to this drug as well. When will we have those answers?
[Neuzil:] Well, I understand that they'll be releasing more data later. You know, we physicians and scientists like to see the peer-reviewed literature and really scour over the data. I think as Dr. Fauci suggested though, we don't really have that luxury to always wait for that in this current environment. But some of what I would like to know is what subsets of people did better. Were there age groups that did better? Was there timing? You know, if you started it earlier in the course of disease, did people do better? And I think that subset analysis will really help to guide not only who we treat now but what kind of testing we might do next.
[Baldwin:] Sure. And, Sanjay, just to you. You know, doctor to doctor, do you have any questions for Dr. Neuzil?
[Gupta:] Yes. You know, I think one of the questions that I guess I know that there's different sites where this medication was trialed, in Maryland and more severe patients and other places, perhaps patients who weren't as sick, you know, earlier in the course of the disease or just milder disease overall. How do you look at that sort of literature? Because you know, I think part of the issue is that people who have milder disease, the majority of them do recover, right, even though some can progress to more serious disease. The majority do get better, ultimately, on their own. Brooke is an example of that. Is this something that you would start to think of for people earlier in the disease based on what we know now, Doctor?
[Neuzil:] Yes. So, for full disclosure here, I've heard what everybody else has heard from Dr. Fauci. So, I have not seen the full results. Generally, with viral diseases and antivirals, we do best when we start early. And that's why to me this is remarkable that there is any effect at all. And, you know, there was this positive effect that Dr. Fauci talks about. So, I think exactly what you're saying, I think we have to see, can we start earlier with this. You know, where do we go from here with the data that we have that will guide us? Remember, this is an intravenous medication. We would still love to have an effective oral medicine where we can treat people in the outpatient setting. And the other important aspect is do any of these medications decrease virus shedding or virus transmission. Because then they're not only helping that patient, which is fantastic, but they also may be decreasing the spread of this virus. So, we still have a lot to learn with this and other antivirals.
[Baldwin:] Okay, cautious optimism. I want to thank all of you. And forgive me, my audio, my ear was going in and out on some of that conversation, but I appreciate all of your smarts and your expertise. Remdesivir is the drug, and it sounds like Dr. Fauci is saying, perhaps, perhaps, this could be something that can make sick people better much sooner. A quick break. We're going to continue our coverage here, continuing coverage of the coronavirus pandemic. I'm Brooke Baldwin. We'll be right back.