[Don Lemon, Cnn:] I'm Don Lemon, it is 11:00 p.m. here on the East Coast. Live with all the new developments. The White House grappling with one legal problem after another tonight. The President's legal team unsure exactly of what White House Counsel, Don McGahn told the Special Counsel in some 30 hours of testimony. Under "The Washington Post" reports tonight that McGahn does not believe he implicated Trump in any legal wrong doing. That is according to his attorney. Not only are the President's attorneys still in the dark about it, sources telling CNN, the President himself is rattled. Remember it was Don McGahn who threatened to quit when President Trump attempted to fire Robert Mueller last June. Plus, sources confirming to CNN, that federal authorities are preparing charges against the president's former longtime attorney, Michael Cohen. The U.S. Attorney's office for the Southern District of New York is investigating Cohen for possible bank and tax fraud as well as campaign finance violations related to a hush money payments to porn star Stormy Daniels. Those charges could come by next week. And today, a jury in Virginia ended its third day of deliberation over the fate of president's former campaign chairman, Paul Manafort served the Trump campaign for five critical months leading up to the election. He is facing 18 separate counts of bank and tax fraud. And this is just his first trial. He also faces a second trial next month on charges of lying to the FBI, money laundering and foreign lobbying. I want to bring in now, Nancy Gertner, she is a former federal judge and a Harvard Law professor, also former U.S. attorney Harry Litman, and Clinton White House Counsel, Jack Quinn. Good evening, everyone, welcome to the program. Harry, here's what the sources are telling CNN, McGahn didn't provide incriminating information about the President and Washington Post has reported that McGahn doesn't believe he implicated Trump in any legal wrongdoing with the Special Counsel investigators. Give me your assessment of this, Harry?
[Harry Litman, Former U.s. Attorney:] I just don't understand how they can say that so confidently. Remember the key piece of evidence that remains is Trump's state of mind. We know the acts he did. We know they would constitute obstruction if done with corrupt motive. McGahn is in the White House, he calls the President King Kong for his occasional volcanic outburst. He is the guy who Trump directs to tell Sessions to recuse before he McGahn knew that he couldn't do it. He is the guy who argues against the Comey firing, I mean he was there shoulder to shoulder, and he doesn't know what Mueller knows. It just seems implausible to me that in 30 hours he doesn't provide some factual material that is really illuminating about the President's state of mind. So, I think it's a little bit overconfident to be saying that at this point.
[Lemon:] So, the real question is, why would Trump's lawyers not debrief McGahn, Jack, because the White House Counsel, Don McGahn has given 30 hours of interviews to the Special Counsel investigators. Much of which the Trump legal team is in the dark about. Why would they brief him?
[Jack Quinn, Former Clinton White House Counsel:] Thirty hours is like a book on tape, isn't it? That is a lot of testimony. I mean, the White House got nothing out of this in return for letting all of these people submit to interviews. You would have thought that they would have at least negotiated, be able to debrief everyone. I understand, by the way, that it was not just Don McGahn who was not asked to provide a debriefing. Apparently none of the witnesses from the White House were debriefed. That is breathtaking. As Don McGahn's lawyer acknowledged. Though he thinks there was nothing incriminating, he doesn't know all of the evidence in the case, and he doesn't know how it all fits together. So what he is saying when he acknowledges that, he doesn't know what incriminating necessarily is.
[Lemon:] Nancy, I want to bring you in, and ask you President Trump says McGahn testified with his approval. He tweeted about that. So McGahn's legal strategy is to be transparent to prove he did nothing wrong. How might that meld with President Trump's legal strategy?
[Nancy Gertner, Former Federal Judge:] Well, just rolling back for a moment on the question of whether or not McGahn incriminated the President, what's really been stunning in the past couple of days, it has been with the President seems not to understand that McGahn is not his personal lawyer.
[Lemon:] Yes.
[Gertner:] So, you think about the kind of things that may have been said to McGahn under the misapprehension that he was his personal lawyer. So that was number one. It was also taking place under the rubric at a time, when they didn't think obstruction of justice could possibly be a crime. That was their view then and view now. And then I take Harry's point, that it's almost like McGahn can provide the framework on to which other details can be placed. You know, what was the nature of the discussions before and after the Comey firing? What about discussions about Flynn. Who set up the meetings with the Russian ambassador shortly after the Comey firing? I mean, there are ways that even if he doesn't directly say ex, ex can be inferred when you put what he is saying next to what other people are saying, and then you really do have to add to that, the failure to debrief is very interesting. Because it suggests that they did not understand what was going on here. And that suggests there may have been admissions that were made, but we really don't know.
[Lemon:] Hold a second, Nancy, let me ask you, because I asked this question in the last hour, it is kind of what you said, do you think it's finally starting to settle in, that this President is realizing now that Don McGahn is not his personal attorney. Don McGahn represents the office of the presidency.
[Gertner:] Well, I think now that we're talking about why it is that McGahn actually had no defense to talking to Mueller. I mean, he could have raised issues, he could have raised executive privilege issues, but they did not. But he actually has no attorney client privilege. Because he is not privileged situation vis-a-vis the president. So, I mean I'm interested in, what came out when the President didn't know that people were listening.
[Lemon:] Interesting. Go ahead, Jack. Sorry.
[Quinn:] Well, I was going to say to your last point there, they not only didn't raise executive privilege, they pretty much waived it. I think it is going to be very difficult for them to reel this back in. The other thing I wanted to mention is that, you know, initial reporting in "The New York Times" about McGahn providing testimony, indicated that he was doing so because he was afraid that he was being setup. That speaks volumes, I mean, clearly, somebody who feels like he might be setup thinks that one or more people in the office in which he works, that is to say in the administration has exposure, has legal exposure and he wanted to make sure that he was not the one holding the bag. So
[Gertner:] Which was the motivation for Dean coming forward, wasn't that the motivation for John Dean coming forward? During Watergate?
[Quinn:] So, I think that says a lot. You know, again, assuming the reporting is accurate. And I have no reason to think it's not.
[Lemon:] Harry, did you say something was possible or not to possible? What were you saying?
[Litman:] I was agreeing with Jack that there's no way they spoke today. This really is the legal gang that couldn't shoot straight from the top. But there some suggestion that now maybe first of all, Nancy's is 100 percent right, no attorney client privilege. And executive privilege is a little bit of a hard road to hoe. It could [inaudible] it could be overcome, but now that he said it. The notion that they can expose facto, try to reel back in the testimony I was just agreeing
[Lemon:] They can't do it?
[Litman:] The stuff that is been used is waived, yes.
[Lemon:] OK. Listen, we're learning that federal prosecutors are preparing criminal charges against Trump's long time attorney and fixer Michael Cohen. They've been investigating possible bank and tax fraud as well as $130,000 hush money payment to Stormy Daniels. Charges could be brought within the next 10 days. Again that is a reporting, what should Trump be most concerned about? What do you think Nancy?
[Gertner:] Well, I mean, what he has to be most concerned about is that Cohen looking down the barrel of serious charges I might add, not brought by the special council this is the southern district of New York. These kinds of charges would continue. If Cohen is looking down the barrel of the gun, what will he do or say vis-a-vis the President. That is what the President has to be concerned about.
[Lemon:] So, Jack, I want you to check put this little headlines. This is from the last few days. McGahn talks to Mueller's team and White House doesn't know. What he said, Cohen may be charged soon we're expecting a Manafort verdict any day. Are the walls closing in on this President? Do you think?
[Quinn:] Certainly, if he is reading headlines like that, he must feel like they are. For sure, Rudy Giuliani feels like they are, I mean you don't get this kind of excited rhetoric unless, you know, you really have cause for grave concern, I think.
[Lemon:] All right. Thank you all.
[Gertner:] There's also an issue of timing which is if Mueller wants something now. In advance of the election. Substantial events of the election.
[Lemon:] Thank you Nancy, thank you, Jack and Harry, as well. I appreciate it. When we come back, new developments in the President's campaign to silence his critics by revoking their security clearances. Plus the new report that details the behind the scenes battle when team Trump reportedly considered stripping President Obama's access to intelligence briefings.