[Blackwell:] Welcome back. I'm Victor Blackwell.
[Gallagher:] And I'm Dianne Gallagher in for Christi Paul this Saturday. So there's a lot of talk about the 25th Amendment. It's swirling around Washington and really the whole country lately. Yesterday afternoon we learned that Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein reportedly discussed wearing a wire and trying to recruit cabinet members to invoke that 25th Amendment. Earlier this month in the now infamous "New York Times" anonymous op-ed, a senior White House official says that there were, quote, whispers of using it to remove the president from office. So what exactly is the 25th Amendment we're hearing so much about. Our digital director of CNN politics Zachary Wolf is here to explain. Zachary, a famous amendment, is everyone really quite sure what it does though?
[Zachary Wolf, Cnn Politics Digital Director:] Yes. It was enacted in the wake of the Kennedy assassination. It has to deal with presidential succession. And most of it, there are four sections of it, and the first three mostly have to do with if the president dies or is no longer able to perform duties, power goes to the vice president. But then there's this fourth section about how the cabinet and the vice president can essentially vote to overturn the president, to take power away from him temporarily. And that triggers this complicated process where the president can disagree with them, then they vote again, and then it goes to Congress where two-thirds majority essentially would have to agree to take power from the president, and then the vice president takes over for the president. So it is this sort of long, complicated process that would play out over the course of three weeks, and it is like a sideway, it is not impeachment, it's not death, it is a different way for the president to leave office without being voted out. And people just for some reason keep coming back to this. We've heard that Steve Bannon was obsessed with it. We know that Trump has been thinking about it, with the anonymous op-ed and now with this Rosenstein story, people inside the White House talked about it. It is so fascinating because it makes you wonder how they're dealing with the president on a daily basis.
[Gallagher:] Zachary Wolf, thank you for breaking down the amendment down for us.
[Blackwell:] We are now just four hours away from the deadline Senate Republicans set for Christine Blasey Ford to decide if she will testify about sexual assault allegations she's levied against Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh. Joining me now for a breakdown on this and today's other political headlines, Tharon Johnson, the former south regional director for the 2012 Obama campaign, and Brian Robinson, former spokesman for Georgia Republican governor Nathan Deal. Gentlemen, welcome back. Let's start. There are four points on which that we know that Ford's attorneys and Senate Republicans are on either side of on, so we'll see if we can get some of those solved here. Let's put them up on the screen. First, with the opening statement, Miss Ford would like to or Professor Ford would like a statement with no time limit. Do you think she should?
[Brian Robinson, Republican Strategist:] Look, give her her say. I think Republicans have bent over backwards to make sure she can tell her story. So don't set any arbitrary rules. And obviously we don't want her to filibuster this. We have given her enough time. This process does need to move forward. But give her as much time she wants as long as it's reasonable. Let her tell her story because we're going to confirm him, he's going to be on the Supreme Court. And we need to get going on this. We've been more than fair.
[Blackwell:] You're going to, and I want to get to the other points, but you're going to confirm him, it doesn't matter what she says?
[Robinson:] Look, no.
[Blackwell:] Clarify that, Brian.
[Robinson:] More than likely he is going to be on the Supreme Court, right, because nothing that has even been alleged to this point, and I don't know why you would hold anything back, but nothing that has been alleged up to now is disqualifying from the Supreme Court. There's a reason what we treat 17-year-olds different in our criminal justice system than we do adults. Their brains aren't even fully formed. We have a lot of growing up to do when we are 17. We don't even know that this is true.
[Blackwell:] Nothing she has alleged has disqualified him from the Supreme Court. Tharon?
[Tharon Johnson, Former South Regional Director, Obama 2012:] I agree she definitely has got to be heard. Look, at a time we know that this is a lifetime appointment, it is the Supreme Court of the United States of America, it's the highest court of the land. So anyone who has decided to put themselves and their family through this grueling nomination process had to be able to be open to whatever may come their way. I think that in this case with Miss Ford is that she should take as much time as she possibly wants, because I think that when she goes and testifies, I think it should be unlimited, because she's now exposing herself and all her family about something she alleged happened at a very young age. And so I do want to commend the Senate Republicans, particularly to Chairman Grassley, for giving her a little bit more time, but it has been sort of this air that we should rush this woman. And more importantly, what is the rush to get this confirmed? Let's not forget, Republicans spent enormous time and months blocking Judge Garland who should have been given a hearing and should have been given an up and down vote.
[Blackwell:] More than 400 days. Let me come back to this statement from you, though, that nothing that she has alleged has disqualified him from the Supreme Court. Even if it is true. Even if he sexual assaulted her when he was 17 and she was 15, that's not disqualifying. He should be confirmed?
[Robinson:] Look, there's one eyewitness to this and that witness says what she is saying happened didn't happen. Both have been named. We know who they are. They say that didn't happen. But this was not a rape. Everybody was fully clothed. Is it inappropriate? Absolutely. Is that how any young man should treat any young woman? Absolutely not. But if we went back and put this in a larger context, they were 17 years old, no crime was committed. Something terribly inappropriate that we should teach young men not to do for sure, but this is not something for a 17 should disqualify them when they're in their 50s and have shown to be responsible adults. No other accuser has come out. And what I am looking for is a pattern of behavior. And if we haven't seen any other example of this
[Blackwell:] One sexual assault is a give-me?
[Robinson:] As a 17-year-old, sexual assault is, look, there are gradations. There are different grades of sexual assault. And I think we need to be careful about criminalizing 17-year-old behavior.
[Blackwell:] And this is an acceptable level of sexual assault?
[Robinson:] I said it is inappropriate. It is not a crime.
[Blackwell:] All right, you have been clear about that. We can't press any more on that because you have been clear this is an acceptable level of sexual assault.
[Robinson:] That's not fair.
[Blackwell:] I've asked you that. You said it is not a crime. He was 17 years old. And it should not prevent him from being confirmed, even if he did it.
[Robinson:] If the story as we know it is true, this should not prevent him being confirmed.
[Blackwell:] OK, that's your position. We've tested it, and you still hold to it. Let's go to another one here, that she should testify second after Judge Kavanaugh. Why should he defend himself and then she'll accuse him? Why is that order appropriate?
[Johnson:] I don't think that order is appropriate. I think that, again, I want to commend the Senate Republicans, particularly the chair of the Judiciary Committee, for giving her enough time. They have been working with her lawyers to really make sure that if this testimony happens that they feel she will be put in a fair and proper setting. But I think you should give Kavanaugh opportunity to respond, but you've got to hear the alleged victims' points of what she thinks happened and what she encountered on this day. And so I think to have him go first and to have her go second will completely discredit her statement. And I think at the end of the day, the American people deserve to hear what this woman wants to say if she chooses to testify. But I do believe that Kavanaugh should have an opportunity to defend and actually give his version of what he remembers happening when he was the age of 17.
[Blackwell:] Why don't Republicans want to hear from Mark Judge under oath?
[Robinson:] I'm sorry?
[Blackwell:] Mark Judge, under oath, the other person, the third person that Dr. Ford, Professor Ford alleges was in the room. Why don't they want to hear from him under oath?
[Robinson:] I don't know. Again, I think that Republicans serve themselves by being as open as possible. And I think that's why you see them moving the deadline back, working with Dr. Ford and her attorney to make sure that she feels comfortable, that she feels secure, that she can tell her story like she wants to. I think they're bending over backwards. And I think it would keep with that if they let Mr. Judge testify as well. Look, he's already said this didn't happen.
[Blackwell:] It is different to have an attorney release a statement and to say it under oath under penalty of perjury, right? Why not subpoena him, make him make his case in front of the committee?
[Robinson:] I would love for him to come make his case before the committee. I would absolutely love for him to do that.
[Blackwell:] One more thing here. We've talked about Kavanaugh. I want to talk about this ad that came out overnight that's gone viral. This is in an Arizona house race from a candidate, David Brill, against the incumbent there, Paul Gosar. Watch this.
[Unidentified Female:] Paul Gosar the congressman isn't doing anything to help rural America.
[Unidentified Male:] Paul is absolutely not working for his district.
[Unidentified Female:] If they care about health care, they care about their children's health care, they would hold him to account. If they care about jobs, they would hold him to account. If he actually cared about people in rural Arizona, I bet he would be fighting for Social Security, for better access to health care. I bet he would be researching what is the most insightful water policy to help the environment of Arizona sustain itself and be successful.
[Unidentified Male:] He is not listening to you and he doesn't have your interests at heart. My name is Tim Gosar. David Gosar.
[Unidentified Female:] Grace Gosar. Joan Gosar. Gaston Gosar. Jennifer Gosar. Paul Gosar is my brother. My brother. I endorse Dr. Brill.
[Unidentified Male:] Dr. Brill. Wholeheartedly endorse David Brill for Congress. I'm Dr. David Brill, and I approve this message.
[Blackwell:] That is cold.
[Johnson:] We have been doing campaigns for almost two decades now. And there's not this unknown thing where you have sort of debates and tension privately with your siblings, even with some of your parents. My brother, who sometimes is my biggest critic, but he's also my biggest fan, would never go out and sit down and actually participate in a 60 second ad in this great forestry scene and tell people don't vote for
[Blackwell:] Not just one sibling, six.
[Johnson:] Out of nine. This is bizarre.
[Blackwell:] We have to wrap it. Tharon Johnson, Brian Robinson, thank you both. Dianne?
[Gallagher:] It could be the start of a major environmental crisis. North Carolina flood waters trigger a dam breach that could spill coal ash into the river. We've a live report from Wilmington, North Carolina, coming up next.