[Don Lemon, Cnn:] There is something different about this case. Zachary Hammond was white.
[Pinsky:] Is this shooting being ignored because there is not a racial issue?
[John Cardillo, Wjno Radio Host And Former Nypd Officer:] Yes, most definitely. Absolutely, without a doubt.
[Segun Oduolowu, Host Of "wired In With Segun" Podcast:] Forget the color. Deal with the boys in blue.
[Rolonda Watts, Host Of "rolonda On Demand" Podcast:] There is no need for deadly force, and there is an unarmed person killed again.
[Martin:] Unarmed teens and when you cannot figure out a better way to arrest someone or to deal with the situation other than to use lethal force, we are in trouble in this country.
[Pinsky:] Yes.
[Martin:] We are in trouble.
[Pinsky:] Zachary Hammond, we are talking about; he was shot and killed by a police during a marijuana sting. First of all, I am shocked that there is such a thing.
[Sedaghatfar:] Marijuana sting.
[Pinsky:] In a fast food parking lot. Police say Zachary tried to run over an officer with his vehicle. The officer shot him twice in the chest. The family`s private autopsy found Zachary was shot in the back. They were moving away from him when he was shot. Back with Anahita, Rolonda, Mike, Areva and John still on Skype. Joining me on the phone, I have Eric Bland. He is the attorney for Zachary Hammond`s family. I guess we have a lot of questions for you. Tell us about this private autopsy in the findings.
[Eric Bland, Attorney Of Zachary Hammond`s Family:] Dr. Drew, we felt it was necessary because the narrative that was being delivered by the Seneca Police Chief as well as by the coroner was exactly what you said, that he was shot Zachary was shot in the chest. And, it did not put context in where the bullets were entered. The bullets entered according to the second autopsy, which entered into his body on the left rear shoulder and his left side back chest; which was indicative of the officer is shooting him from the back. And, Dr. Drew, where I grew up, you shoot somebody in the back, you are a coward. You are not a hero and you get charged with murder.
[Martin:] That is right.
[Bland:] And, unfortunately Unfortunately, in this situation, the solicitor views the police officer as a hero, and you have to judge his conduct. Not subjectively, but what would a reasonable officer have done under these circumstances. And, we do not need to look any further that there was another officer who had his gun drawn on the passenger`s side of the vehicle. And, that officer did not perceive a threat. That officer did not see a weapon. That officer did not perceive it. Zachary and the girl on the passenger`s seat were disregarding police instructions, and he did not discharge his weapon. So, that was a reasonable officer. But the officer that shot Zachary, shot him from the back. He had time to reflect, had time to make other choices and decided to use deadly force on an teenager who weighed 121 pound and was not the focus of that sting operation.
[Pinsky:] Thank you, Mr. Bland. Now, John, you, yesterday, told us that you felt the vehicle was a weapon, even though this kid did not have any firearm. He was using his vehicle as a weapon as far as you were concerned.
[Cardillo:] Yes, I mean, this happened to me, at Burnside Avenue in the Bronx. I pulled over a vehicle an in a split second, the guy took off by me as I was at his pickup. He had a piece of trim hanging of the vehicle. It hooked into my gun belt. And, my weapon coming out of my holster into his face. That is the only thing I got him to stop that car. Had he not, I would have been hit by vehicles on the other side of the street and killed. A vehicle is a weapon. I also want to comment on the officer on the right side not shooting. That was brutal. Zach Hammond was driving the vehicle. He was depressed. The passenger was not. So, that officer was correct not to shoot. Fired to stop threat. And, I really do not have problems I want to wait for the big boot.
[Pinsky:] All right, John I got to interrupt you. I will get an input from out audience. Yes, ma`am.
[Unidentified Female Audience Member:] Well, the cops were wrong for killing Zachary. That is for sure. Can I get an amen? I was also a victim of police brutality.
[Pinsky:] What happened?
[Unidentified Female Audience Member:] I am a white girl. OK? From Long Beach
[Catherwood:] What?
[Unidentified Female Audience Member:] I know, shocking.
[Pinsky:] And, what happened to you exactly? Let us get to that.
[Unidentified Female Audience Member:] OK. I was tased. I was tased in the throat from about 3
[Pinsky:] Were you talking back to the cops?
[Unidentified Female Audience Member:] I was not. And, I was charged with police brutality and a resisting arrest, but I was just in my little heels, and a dress. They came in. They arrested my mom. I watched them handcuffed my sister, and push her over the couch. She had a little tiara on.
[Pinsky:] OK. All right. Now, Mike, you have been handled similarly by the police, but you say it is when you
[Catherwood:] I have always been terrible. I was always being a really bad guy.
[Sedaghatfar:] So, you deserved it as much as
[Catherwood:] I mean, listen, that itself so subjective to say what level of force a policeman can use on you and what is right and what is wrong? But, I definitely was pushing buttons. I mean I was not complying.
[Pinsky:] Now, that you are sober, you are not drunk, you are not hanging out with a bunch of screwballs.
[Catherwood:] Yes.
[Pinsky:] Magically, you do not have any trouble with
[Catherwood:] No, that is a very You know, it is very poignant to say like when I was committing crime every single day of my life, which I was, I was at least possessing drugs every day. And, then, now now that I do not, I do not commit crime, I just do not have any animosity nor do I have any of that awkward feeling that have when you even encountered cops, which I used to have? Even just the sight of cop, I would be like, "Ugh."
[Pinsky:] Yes, ma`am.
[Unidentified Female Audience Member:] So, what is going on is absolutely wrong. I disagree with it, but I think the biggest problem was in our community especially in America is that of the lack of understanding and the fear that is being placed between citizens and cops.
[Pinsky:] So, what do we do about it?
[Sedaghatfar:] Yes.
[Unidentified Female Audience Member:] We need to come to a conclusion, where we can sit down and we understand each other. We are working off the fear. Cops are fearful. Citizens are fearful. We are at a point of misunderstanding. And, I think that is the biggest point because cops are terrified. They have a hard job. We have a hard job living with being in fear of being shot, being arrested at any point. But, we need to just come to a conclusion and talk about what is really going on.
[Pinsky:] Now, Anahita, you wanted solutions. That is what you called for the last segment.
[Sedaghatfar:] Right.
[Pinsky:] I do not feel that fear. I feel bad for the police.
[Sedaghatfar:] Right.
[Pinsky:] I feel bad that horrible things are happening. It is hard to deny that.
[Sedaghatfar:] Right.
[Pinsky:] But how do we get people, the citizens to feel positive about the police? Would not that be
[Sedaghatfar:] Well, that is a good question. I wish I had the answers. I do not, but I think we need to start thinking about that, Dr. Drew.
[Watts:] I think we can start
[Sedaghatfar:] And, I think that is the
[Watts:] Go on. Go on.
[Sedaghatfar:] No, and I think that is the point. I think even having this discussion and throwing ideas out there.
[Pinsky:] Now, it is
[Ok -- Sedaghatfar:] It is a good start. Well, because we are talking about solutions.
[Pinsky:] Rolonda.
[Sedaghatfar:] I am not just complaining about the problems.
[Watts:] You know, I think sometimes, what they say, God is in the details. It is the little things that we do. And, I have had to catch myself. I have had some prejudicial thoughts about cops. I will admit. But, if you see a police officer, say "Hello."
[Pinsky:] Yes.
[Watts:] Or just to stretch yourself beyond just the regular old regular same old fear factor. "Thank you for doing your job today, officer." Buy him a cup of coffee. Any little thing I know. I know it sounds corny and Kumbaya. I know. But it makes a big difference.
[Pinsky:] Mike.
[Watts:] And, if nothing else, it puts positivity out there in the first place.
[Catherwood:] There was a time and a place. There was a time and a place All right. You are right, you are not on T.V. There was a time and a place in this country when the most populated cities had maybe a million people.
[Pinsky:] Yes.
[Catherwood:] And, most people did not really encounter more than a couple hundred people in their life. And, it was very easy for the police and the citizens to have a very open working relationship. You know, in Los Angeles, Chicago, New York City, and other a lot of other cities, many of other cities, that is practically impossible. And, the police because of it, suffer because they do not have the ability to have that kind of intimate relationship with the citizens that they patrol and vice-versa. We do not really know policemen.
[Pinsky:] And, that is the fear again. Yes, ma`am, you have a comment.
[Unidentified Female Audience Member:] Yes, I just wanted to say to officer John, thank you for your service. However, I mean, something has to be going on in this man`s head that he must feel so unsafe the fact that he can sit on national television and say, you know, he wants the brutality that he went behind it. But, it is him, and the cops with Sandra Bland, who I think verbatim said, "I will light you up. I will light you up." Like those cops like what you are saying you want solutions, they are not the solution. They are the problems.
[Pinsky:] Mike Well, let us start with that.
[Watts:] But, not all. And, you know, here I go. I am sorry. But, not all of the cops are the rogue cops. So, one little bit at a time just helps build the relationship a little bit.
[Pinsky:] And nor I would not classify John as a rogue cop.
[Watts:] No. But, you know but they are out there.
[Sedaghatfar:] How about even trying to screen out bad cops? Not all cops are obviously bad. How come we do not have, you know, more mechanisms to screen them out?
[Pinsky:] And, Mike hang on a second. Mike, you and I have seen a friend of ours get lit up by the cops.
[Catherwood:] Yes.
[Pinsky:] He deserved to be
[Catherwood:] He was being a terrible person.
[Pinsky:] Absolutely. That is the only way they could have control him. He would have killed him.
[Catherwood:] I believe the cops said, "If you, giant mother F`er, I am going to cook your balls.
[Pinsky:] Yes.
[Catherwood:] And, he was
[Watts:] Who is this friend?
[Sedaghatfar:] Who is this?
[Catherwood:] That is a deep dark secret.
[Unidentified Female Audience Member:] This is the problem that I have with all of this is that it is not a side taking thing.
[Pinsky:] Yes.
[Unidentified Female Audience Member:] But, I just heard you say that there is no fear from you.
[Pinsky:] Yes.
[Unidentified Female Audience Member:] There is probably no fear from you because you have not had to live this.
[Pinsky:] Well, no, I have. It is not true. I have been abused by cops on two different occasions. And, then, one lied about what happened in court. And, I was confused by it. I did not think all cops were bad.
[Unidentified Female Audience Member:] But, I am saying in the sense of every day. Certain communities
[Pinsky:] Let me say, I have white privilege and I am a male.
[Unidentified Female Audience Member:] Right.
[Pinsky:] It is bad. All the way through in terms of what I do not perceive. I am sure of that. So, let me cop to that for sure.
[Unidentified Female Audience Member:] OK. So, this is the problem I have, and I am listening to you. And, it seems like, if you never I mean I do not live in south central, but I have family that lives in south central. And, I just witnessed a murder the other day. It was not by the cops, but it was still what happens in that community, which I understand why the cops are fearful piggybacking on what she said.
[Pinsky:] Yes. Yes.
[Unidentified Female Audience Member:] But, it is really hard, if you are not living it, to really get what is going on, you know?
[Pinsky:] I agree. And, we have to leave it there. I think that is an excellent place to leave it, because that is an excellent reminder to those of us like myself that may be a little confused by at times if we are not living all the time to stay tuned. I get criticism on Twitter on tweets about me sort of making too much of exactly what she said. And, I cannot make too much of it, because I am a privileged white male, that I should make a lot of it. Exactly what she is saying. That is a got the great point. We are going to leave it there. Next, Kris Jenner calling out Caitlyn over a very public transition and the conflict thing they have, after this.