[Piers Morgan, Cnn:] This is PIERS MORGAN LIVE. Welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world. Tonight, breaking news. The Obama administration in turmoil. The scandal claims its first victim.
[Barack Obama, President Of The United States:] Today, Secretary Lew took the first step by requesting and accepting the resignation of the acting commissioner of the IRS.
[Morgan:] This on the same day the White House released nearly 100 pages of Benghazi e-mails. Donald Rumsfeld says they're still trying to pass the buck. He's with me live on the grill tonight. Plus, horrifying revelations of abuse and terror. Amanda Berry, Gina DeJesus, Michelle Knight hid in the van in the garage when Ariel Castro had visitors. Michelle Knight beaten with hand weights. Ariel Castro's common law wife apparently abused the same way. There's also the encouraging news that Gina and Michelle have spoken by phone. And after all these years in captivity, one of the girls has just discovered what an iPhone is. Also tonight, law and disorder. On the docket, Jodi Arias fighting for her life.
[Juan Martinez, Prosecutor:] The last thing that Mr. Alexander felt was this knife, this woman, and this blade coming towards him.
[Morgan:] The jury finds that she was extremely cruel. That means she is eligible for the death penalty. The question is, will she get it? And the super sized O.J. Simpson, he never testified during his murder trial. Now finally he's taking the stand.
[Unidentified Female:] Do you think that you were acting legally?
[O.j. Simpson, Former Nfl Star:] Yes, I did.
[Unidentified Female:] In what you were doing?
[Simpson:] Yes, I did.
[Unidentified Female:] And why is that?
[Simpson:] Well, it was my stuff. I followed what I thought the law
[Morgan:] Break down on the biggest legal issues of the day with Alan Dershowitz and Gloria Allred. But I want to begin with the latest news from Cleveland. Ariel Castro's daughter, Emily, is talking about what she saw inside her father's house. She was interviewed by an investigator in her prison cell where she is serving 25 years for the attempted murder of her own 11-month-old daughter.
[Emily Castro, Ariel Castro's Daughter:] The upstairs was blocked off with a big bass speaker. So I figured that since he lived there alone so long, that he didn't have any need for those what, there's four bedrooms upstairs. He didn't have any need for them. So, you know, I just kind of like I was like, can I, you know, sleep upstairs in my old bedroom? And he said no, because it's cold up there, it's blocked off, you know, it's dusty. And so I just was like, OK.
[Morgan:] We'll go straight to Cleveland where Ed Gallek of WOIO is live again for us. Ed, every day there's new developments and new shocks. Today is no exception. Let's start with Ariel Castro's daughter there, who herself is serving a very lengthy prison sentence for trying to kill her baby. Tell me about this.
[Ed Gallek, Woio, Cleveland:] Well, what stands out is her description of inside that house. Again, talking about a bass speaker blocking off some of the doors and in effect saying, dad, let me sleep in my old room and then him saying, well, you know, that room, the heat is not very good in there, it's kind of dusty in there. You don't want to go in there. And that gets back to another point we've heard about how he was so secretive and able to conceal this because one story I've heard about the women is that they were put into a van, locked in the van, locked in the garage, to keep them out of sight when this guy knew he was going to have visitors come over.
[Morgan:] And in terms of the daughter herself, I mean, many viewers probably don't know much about her case. Tell me what she did. Because she seemed to have some complete mental breakdown and tried to kill her baby.
[Gallek:] Yes, she's doing up to 25 years for trying to kill her own baby, less than a year old. Cut about four times. And this apparently, according to her, stems from some kind of domestic problem she was having with the father of the child. But yet you wonder, some of the parallels are just chilling.
[Morgan:] Right. Absolutely. Let's turn to talking of chilling, the statements made by Ariel Castro's legal team. And I want to play a little clip from this because it really was quite shocking, I thought. Let's listen to this.
[Unidentified Reporter:] So when the judge at the arraignment says, how do you plead to kidnapping, how do you plead to rape and whatever else, what are you going to say?
[Jaye Schlachet, Defense Attorney:] It definitely is going to be two words, "not guilty." I can tell you that Mr. Castro is extremely committed to the well-being and positive future for his daughter, who he loves dearly.
[Morgan:] I don't know about you, Ed, but I found that pretty bizarre to be so categoric. This guy is no monster, he's a loving father, et cetera, et cetera. When the sheer welt of evidence against him to the contrary is right there in front of us.
[Gallek:] Yes, a couple of things stand out there. Our newsroom talked to those attorneys just hours ago and they fully admit, they are getting some backlash. People saying, how can you represent an accused monster? You're not representing that guy. And their answer, of course, as attorneys, it's the American way, everybody gets a fair trial, that kind of thing. OK. But then again, consider this. Again, this guy is talking about how much he loves his daughter. The daughter born in captivity, born to Amanda Berry. However, that child, it should be pointed out, never went to a doctor. That child hadn't been going to school. That child was born in the house in an inflatable pool, delivered by one of the other hostages. So, again, consider, I love my daughter, but all of that? How can that be? Well, the response we got to that today was we'll have to wait and see what all of the circumstances are. And, again, that begs the question, well, what kind of circumstances could possibly justify all that, showing that you love your daughter?
[Morgan:] Right. Ed Gallek, thank you very much indeed, as always. Now I want to turn to one of today's big stories. O.J. Simpson doing something he never did during his 1995 murder trial, taking the witness stand. Simpson is serving 33 years for robbery, kidnapping and assault, stemming from an incident in 2007. And now he wants a new trial. CNN's George Howell is in Las Vegas where the case is being heard. George, we finally get to hear from O.J. Simpson.
[George Howell, Cnn Correspondent:] Piers, you know, and we saw an alert, O.J. Simpson, a person who seemed, you know, very comfortable, back in the spotlight, this time and for the first time telling his version of events leading up to and then during that confrontation with these two sports memorabilia dealers. But again, what did we see? We saw a 65-year-old who is heavier, who is visibly grayer. And instead of wearing those suit and ties that we're used to seeing, this time O.J. Simpson sporting a blue prison jumpsuit Piers.
[Morgan:] And in terms of where this is going to go, it's going to come down, presumably, to his word against his former attorney's word, right?
[Howell:] Right. You know, and there's a lot of ground work. There's a lot of foundation that he and his new attorney are laying down. But really, it goes to the heart of this matter. O.J. Simpson says that he got bad legal advice, but get this. Before the confrontation even happened, he says that he had a conversation with his attorney and the attorney told him that he could go back, Piers, and take back his belongings, legally. Listen to what he had to say.
[Unidentified Female:] Well, what was his advice to you regarding the entire plan?
[Simpson:] That if they didn't give me the stuff, you have to call the police.
[Unidentified Female:] OK.
[Simpson:] And that's what I told everybody involved. That if they don't give it to me, I'm going to get the police in here.
[Unidentified Female:] OK. Did you have any understanding whether you could detain people or not?
[Simpson:] Not until the police came.
[Unidentified Female:] OK. So at this point your advice is no trespass on other people's property.
[Simpson:] Yes.
[Unidentified Female:] You can use some force.
[Simpson:] Yes.
[Unidentified Female:] You can demand your property?
[Simpson:] Yes.
[Unidentified Female:] OK. And if they refuse to give it to you, you can detain them.
[Simpson:] Yes. But I had no doubt that they would give it to me.
[Unidentified Female:] OK.
[Howell:] You know, Piers, there were also a couple of other big items that were mentioned. First of all, O.J. says that his attorney did not tell him about a plea deal that he could have taken to take two years in prison instead of a long prison sentence that he currently has. And he also says that his attorney told him, advised him, not to testify in court. The attorney basically saying that he would not be convicted. So he did not testify in court. And Simpson's new attorney is basically making the case that O.J. Simpson did not get that opportunity to speak up for himself against the evidence that prosecutors had against his character and events of those several days.
[Morgan:] And, George, there was also a rather fascinating insight into his relationship with alcohol. Tell me about that.
[Howell:] Right. And we learned about this. The day before the confrontation, even the day of the confrontation, O.J. Simpson said that, look, he was in Vegas for a wedding. There was a lot of drinking before the confrontation, during the confrontation. He even said, look, I wouldn't drive a car in my condition. Listen to how he explained it in court.
[Unidentified Female:] Well, are you having any alcohol?
[Simpson:] Oh, yes.
[Unidentified Female:] And how much were you drinking, if you can remember?
[Simpson:] Well, you know, I had a joke that my doctor says I should never have an empty glass is what I would tell the waitress. You know? So we were celebrating. It was, you know we were all celebrating.
[Howell:] So Simpson basically admitting that, you know, alcohol could have been, was a factor. And it's still unclear exactly how that could play out in the judge's mind.
[Morgan:] Right. Pretty extraordinary to watch him finally giving evidence. George Howell, thank you very much indeed. Now it's time for tonight's "Law and Disorder." Here to break down all the cases Americans are talking from O.J. Simpson to Ariel Castro to the latest from Jodi Arias, our superstar attorneys, Gloria Allred and Alan Dershowitz, who I should point out acted as an appellate adviser to Simpson's defense team during his murder trial and later wrote a book about it. Welcome to you both. Let's start with you, Alan, come on. What do you make of seeing him finally give evidence?
[Alan Dershowitz, Attorney:] Well, he's not a bad witness. You know, I certainly advised and most of the people on the defense team advised him to stay off the witness stand at his murder trial. And that was the right advice at that time. He has no shot at all, I think, at winning on the issue of his lawyer telling him to stay off the witness stand. That's just tactical advice. He has a really good shot if he can prove that he wasn't told about an offer of two years.
[Morgan:] But is that plausible? Is that likely?
[Dershowitz:] Yes, yes. And it happens. It happens all the time. Lawyers want their chance to be on television. In this case, he argues that the lawyer may have had a conflict of interest. I have seen many cases, and they have been reversed, when the lawyer fails to communicate an offer. The third issue is, if the lawyer, in fact, gave him advice prior to his going into this room, saying this is what you can do, this is what you can't do, he clearly had a conflict of interest. He was then a witness, not a lawyer. So on two of the three issues, he has some chance of prevailing. Now I think everybody out there ought to face one reality. If this were not O.J. Simpson, and if all Americans didn't believe
[Morgan:] Right.
[Dershowitz:] that he had killed his wife and gotten away with it, no way is he going to get this kind of sentence for doing what he did. He is being punished for what many perceive as having gotten away with murder.
[Morgan:] Would you agree with all that, Gloria?
[Gloria Allred, Civil Rights Attorney:] Well, I mean, first of all, I think that's insulting to the judge who is the one who sentenced him. Having said that, I would respectfully
[Dershowitz:] I mean to insult the judge. I mean to insult the judge.
[Allred:] I would respectfully disagree with Mr. Dershowitz in reference to his statement, oh, O.J. is not a bad witness. O.J. did testify in the civil case where the Goldman family and the estate of Nicole Brown Simpson were suing him for the killing of both of those individuals. And he did testify and the jury did not believe him. And they found that he was liable for the wrongful death of both Nicole and of Ron. So he I actually at the time and said in my book, I said that he should have been investigated for perjury at that time. Because of what he testified to that he'd never hit, slapped, punched Nicole and that he said that, he testified to that, standing beside or sitting beside large blown-up photos of her with a black eye. And obviously that was not true. So having said that, he actually has 19 grounds that the judge is allowing him to present evidence to as to why he should be granted a new trial. Out of the 22 that he wanted. And we'll see whether he is successful with any of them.
[Dershowitz:] But you know the issue of whether he should be punished for what he was previously acquitted of, bears some resemblance to what's going on with the IRS now. You know, if you don't like somebody, you apply a double standard of justice to him. Whether it's auditing him or giving him a harsher sentence. And Gloria, I would like you to look me in the eye and tell me he would get 33 years for trying to recover his own property if his name weren't O.J. Simpson.
[Allred:] Well, first of all, Alan, I will look you in the eye and tell you this, that he was convicted of robbery. And there were guns present. And although he denies knowing or having criminal intent and all of that, the jury didn't buy it, OK. So having been convicted of numerous counts
[Dershowitz:] That's right.
[Allred:] he was sentenced. I don't have any problem with those sentence. And, you know, now he's tried to reverse it. We'll see whether or not he is successful.
[Morgan:] Tell me this, I mean, talking of behavior involving attorneys, I was pretty shocked by the tone that Ariel Castro's attorneys were you shocked?
[Dershowitz:] I was shocked. Look, everybody is entitled to a defense. And if you have the unfortunate bad luck of being called to represent somebody who is genuinely a monster, you may have an obligation to do it. But you're not obligated to be a character witness. You're not obligated to go on television and tell the world that this is a commendable person. You are obligated to present in court legal issues that will help him. So I too was very surprised at slipping over from being a defense lawyer to being a character witness.
[Allred:] Well, obviously, he's trying to affect the climate of opinion for the potential jury pool if there is such a trial.
[Morgan:] Right.
[Allred:] I tend to doubt there'll ever be a trial.
[Morgan:] I agree with you.
[Allred:] I think he's trying to position it for a deal so that his client doesn't get the death penalty.
[Morgan:] Let's take a short break. I'm going to talk about Jodi Arias, she's one step nearer the death penalty now. And I also want to talk to you about other issues, including the fact I'm about to interview Donald Rumsfeld on the grill. I might get you two to pose a question for the great man. Looks a bit nervous.