[Lemon:] Please, whatever you're doing, just sit down and watch this next segment. Doctors at Parkland Memorial Hospital in Dallas speaking out today about treating the police officers who were ambushed last Thursday. One of them is Dr. Brian Williams. He was a trauma surgeon on duty. He said the experience is personal for him and he thinks about it every day.
[Williams:] I understand the anger and the frustration and distrust of law enforcement, but they're not the problem. The problem is the lack of open discussions about the impact of race relations in this country. And I think about it every day. That I wasn't able to save those cops when they came here that night. It weighs on my mind constantly. This killing, it has to stop.
[Lemon:] Dr. Brian Williams joins me now. Thank you, doctor. How are you?
[Williams:] Thank you for having me. I'm getting by.
[Lemon:] Yes. And that was just a, you know, a courtesy how are you, but really, I was watching you today. How are you doing? How are you doing?
[Williams:] How am I doing? That is somewhat difficult to answer. I'm I go hour to hour. This incident has been playing in my mind constantly. It's it's like this bad movie on an endless loop. But going to work has forced me to kind of push it aside temporarily but it continues to break through. And I discuss it a lot with my wife. We talk about it at work. But I have not fully had a chance to just sit back and process really what actually happened.
[Lemon:] Yes. I thought it was really profound when you said, because it was very simple, you said, I don't know what I'm going to do with all of this. You don't know from moment to moment what you're going to do, right?
[Williams:] That's true. I know, for me, I have to do something. I don't know what that it's going to be or when. I'm savvy enough to recognize there is an issue, just haven't taken that next step.
[Lemon:] Yes.
[Williams:] I still think about the I'm still thinking about the officers and the families and the men that were killed in Baton Rouge, in Minnesota last week. And I compare my situation to theirs. It's hard for me to focus on myself right now.
[Lemon:] It's a real if we can just for a moment, though, if you'll indulge me it's a real tug-of-war for you because you're a successful surgeon. Obviously you go in to do your job, you have tremendous respect for law enforcement, but you said while you are a successful surgeon and you do have a respect for law enforcement that you fear them at the same time. That's not something that one of your friends sitting there, a fellow surgeon and friend sitting there as a white person does not have to deal with. Help our help America understand the conflict that you have as a black man.
[Williams:] Well, clearly when I'm at work dressed in my white coat, the reactions I get from individuals and the officers I deal with on a daily basis is much different than what I would get outside the hospital in regular clothes. And my fear and some mild inherent distrust that law enforcement that goes back to my own personal experiences that I've had over my entire life, as well as hearing the stories from friends and family that look like me, that have had similar experiences. Put that all together, and that will explain why I feel the way I do.
[Lemon:] Yes. Your friend is Dr. Kent Dr. Kent, I forget his last name. Who was there with you today? You know what I'm talking about?
[Williams:] Dr. Ken?
[Lemon:] Yes, the doctor, the surgeon who's also a police officer. And who's also your...
[Williams:] Dr. Eastman.
[Lemon:] Dr. Eastman.
[Williams:] Dr. Eastman, yes.
[Lemon:] Dr. Eastman was sitting there today and you guys talked he talked about your friendship and how your families know each other and your wives know each other and your children and you have these difficult you're starting these difficult conversations with each other and you have very different views on all of this. What are you talking about? How are those conversations how are you facilitating these conversations? What are you guys discussing?
[Williams:] Well, clearly Dr. Eastman and I have very different views on law enforcement. He is a police officer. I am not. He probably has never had the same experiences dealing with law enforcement that I have had over my lifetime. And now that this incident has happened, it has allowed these conversations to begin, but there's certainly been little progress at this point because it's only been a few days and there's a long, long way to go from here.
[Lemon:] Are you on the at every moment, I hear you in your voice, are you on the verge of tears at every moment?
[Williams:] Not at every moment, but there are have been times where people have mentioned the officers and then that sets off a chain reaction of thoughts in my head about what happened that evening. I'm good most of the day, but there are times where it just takes over.
[Lemon:] You said every day you think about how you couldn't save those police officers coming in. Is that a guilt what is that feeling?
[Williams:] Well, I did mention myself, this is a team that worked on all these office. I certainly was directing that team and in the end, I did much of the physical work on the individuals. In the end certainly out of respect for the family, I don't want to discuss all the details of what we did, but I just wish maybe I could have gotten to them a few minutes sooner.
[Lemon:] You're OK, doc. The country's with you. The world is with you. And we understand your pain. I mean, as much as we can.
[Williams:] I don't understand why people think it's OK to kill police officers. I don't understand why black men die in custody and they're forgotten the next day. I don't know why this has to be us against them. This is all really it has to stop.
[Lemon:] The world you have you have everybody's attention, doctor, quite honestly. What did you want to say? What would you like to say to America right now?
[Williams:] We are in this together, we are all connected. All this violence, all this hatred, all these disagreements, it impacts us all. Whether you realize it or not. This is not the kind of world we want to leave for our children. Something has to be done.
[Lemon:] Can we talk about your daughter, because you say that you're often out with your daughter and you want her to see you having positive experiences with law enforcement and there are certain things that you do in her presence in the presence of law enforcement to reinforce that.
[Williams:] Well, I when I'm out, if I'm at a restaurant and I see police officers in uniform eating, I make it a point to pick up their tab. For me, I want them to see a black man who acknowledges them as individuals, acknowledges the sacrifices they make and show that I appreciate what they do. And I also want my daughter to see me doing this so that when she grows up, she can recognize that the police officers are not the enemy. That they're people she can trust. Because the burden I carry with me is not something I want her to have as an adult.
[Lemon:] How old is she?
[Williams:] She's five.
[Lemon:] Five years old. Did you you saw the video of Alton Sterling and Philando Castile being shot.
[Williams:] yes, I saw it.
[Lemon:] You had no idea at that time that this would somehow and some ways fell over into your emergency room. It must just be surreal for the moment.
[Williams:] Yes, it is. That is correct. I did not expect there to be a path from to other states to my city. But I certainly felt the impact of those incidents on me personally. So, for me the tragedy that began in Dallas on Thursday night, it started for me well before that. And that was the culmination, not the beginning.
[Lemon:] You described these events as a turning point for your life and that's why you decided to speak out. This changed you.
[Williams:] It absolutely has changed me. I'm certainly not the only African-American male in this country that feels the way I do toward law enforcement. But I work with them on a daily basis. They're my colleagues. They're my friends. And as I said, I'll respect what they do. But I also understand how men like me can fear and distrust officers in uniform. I get it. But that does not justify inciting violence against police officers. Does not justify trying to kill police officers. This incident didn't fix anything. It's making it worse. We're no longer talking about the dead black men. We're no longer discussing race relations in this country. And I certainly do not want to take away from the Dallas police officers and their families, but we should be discussing the impact this tragedy has had on everyone involved. Not just the heroes in blue, but the American citizens that have paid the price as well.
[Lemon:] So, to that end, you said that there needs to be more open discussion and dialogue about race. Some people say that there's a lot of talk, there just aren't people listening right now. Many people. And others see the problem very differently. We're going to have a town hall here on Wednesday night on CNN. How do we start to understand each other better? Doctor, help us begin that conversation. How do we do that?
[Williams:] There are a lot of people talking at each other, talking over each other, trying to shout each other out, but I don't see people truly listening to the other side, truly putting themselves in their shoes and seeing the world through their eyes. And until we're ready to do that, there probably will not be any truly substantive change.
[Lemon:] Dr. Brian Williams. You're one hell of a man. You're a brave man. Thank you so much. Thank you.
[Williams:] Thank you for having me.
[Lemon:] Thank you. And we appreciate the service because you truly are doing the work of the Lord, the Lord's work. We'll be right back, everyone.