[Unidentified Male:] The Democrats don't want to give the president a win. They're that dug in. We're going to be here for a long time. Democrats should not give an inch. Donald Trump owns this.
[Unidentified Female:] Outgoing White House chief of staff John Kelly told "The Los Angeles Times" that this administration abandoned the idea of a concrete wall early in Trump's presidency.
[Unidentified Male:] We need to know what the president wants. We need some predictability.
[Kellyanne Conway, Counselor To Donald Trump:] The president does not these children to come on the perilous journey to begin with.
[Unidentified Male:] The buck stops at the top. At the end of the day you had two young children die in our custody. That should never have occurred.
[Announcer:] This is NEW DAY with Alisyn Camerota and John Berman.
[Alisyn Camerota, Cnn Anchor:] Good morning, everyone. Welcome to your NEW DAY. John is off. Erica Hill joins me on this New Year's Eve morning. Happy New Year's.
[Erica Hill, Cnn Anchor:] Happy new year.
[Camerota:] It's so exciting.
[Hill:] I know. It's, like, your favorite holiday. I had no idea.
[Camerota:] It is my favorite holiday. I am the one person on earth who does not think it's overrated. It's filled with so much promise of the new year.
[Hill:] It's true.
[Camerota:] And it's so poignant to "Auld Lang Syne." And you stay up past midnight. It's all so great.
[Hill:] That alone for you is huge. You're staying up past midnight.
[Camerota:] I know. Let's see if I make it. Seventeen hours and counting until the ball drops here in Times Square. We are now in day ten of the partial government shutdown, and there appears to be no deal in sight, though who knows what today will bring? President Trump is dug in on his demand for billions of dollars to fund his border wall. Sources tell CNN he's unwilling to compromise. He's privately told lawmakers that he will not agree to a deal with $1.3 billion for border security. Democrats are not budging either, and there is no indication that any progress will be made before they take control of the House on Thursday.
[Hill:] Meantime, in an extraordinary interview with "The L.A. Times," outgoing White House chief of staff John Kelly says the Trump administration abandoned the idea of a physical concrete wall along the southern border months ago. So then why is President Trump still touting a wall? And also, just what is Kelly referring to when he says his tenure as chief of staff is best measured by what President Trump didn't do? All this as the president adopts yet another line of attack, blaming Democrats for the death of two Guatemalan children who were in U.S. government custody at the time of their deaths. Mr. Trump claiming, without proof, the tragedies could have been prevented by the construction of his wall. We have it all covered. Let's begin with CNN's Boris Sanchez, who is live at the White House this morning. Boris, good morning.
[Boris Sanchez, Cnn Correspondent:] Hey, good morning, Erica. It is day ten of the government shutdown, and there is no breakthrough on the horizon, just more controversy. The outgoing chief of staff, John Kelly, not going out quietly, Kelly doing an interview with "The L.A. Times" in which he blasts the former attorney general, Jeff Sessions, suggesting that Sessions sprung his family separation policy on the administration unexpectedly, something that the administration denied at the time. Remember, they said there was no family separation policy. Kelly also attempted to redefine what the president means when he says a border wall with Mexico. Look at this quote that Kelly gave "The L.A. Times." It was published on Sunday. Quote, "To be honest, it's not a wall. The president still says "wall.'Oftentimes, frankly, he'll say 'barrier'or 'fencing." Now he's tended towards steel slats. But we left a solid, concrete wall early on in the administration." Let's not forget that just a few days ago, President Trump tweeted that the only solution to the immigration crisis was a good old- fashioned wall on the border with Mexico. We also heard from Senator Lindsey Graham this weekend, Graham having lunch with the president here at the White House. And he says he presented the president with a newishnot-so-new idea for how to end the shutdown. Listen to this.
[Sen. Lindsey Graham , South Carolina:] The president didn't commit, but I think he's very open-minded. I know there are some Democrats out there who would be willing to provide money for wallborder security if we could deal with the DACA population and TPS people. And hopefully, we can get some serious discussions started, maybe as soon as next week.
[Sanchez:] Let's not forget: Republicans and Democrats tried to strike a deal like this in the spring: $25 billion for border wall funding in exchange for legal status for DREAMers. That deal fell apart then. And it's unlikely that Democrats are going to pounce on it now, considering there is a court case involving the legal status of DREAMers moving through the courts right now, potentially likely to get to the Supreme Court. That may resolve that legal status of those DREAMers without any action from Congress. As you noted, there are still some 800,000 federal workers furloughed, or without pay. And the president potentially added insult to injury this weekend by freezing the federal pay of all workers or I should say the pay of all federal workers for 2019 Erica and Alisyn.
[Camerota:] OK. Thank you very much for us for setting us up for all of that. Joining us now, we have CNN senior political reporter, Nia- Malika Henderson; Washington bureau chief for "The Daily Beast," Jackie Kucinich; and executive editor of the Sentinel Newspapers, Brian Karem. Brian, I'll start with you. You could be forgiven for being a little confused about exactly what President Trump is calling for with his wall, because even he seems to be having a hard time defining
[Brian Karem, Cnn Political Analyst:] Shock.
[Camerota:] what it is exactly that he wants. Let's remind people of the things that he has said about the so-called wall.
[Karem:] Well, he said
[Camerota:] Hold on. Hold that thought.
[Karem:] OK.
[Donald Trump , President Of The United States:] We actually need 1,000, because we have natural barriers. It's going to be so big. It's going to be so powerful. It's going to be as beautiful as a wall can be. The wall, also called so that I give them a little bit of an out, steel slats. We don't use the word "wall" necessarily. It's not going to be open until we have a wall or fence or whatever they'd like to call it. So we're looking at between 500 and 550.
[Camerota:] OK. A 1,000-mile concrete wall.
[Karem:] Right.
[Camerota:] It was 32-feet high. That's where we started. Now he says he's giving "them" an out. Not sure who he's referring to. But it's
[Karem:] Himself.
[Camerota:] Himself, in the plural.
[Karem:] Yes.
[Camerota:] And now it's steel slats or a fence, and it's 500
[Karem:] Pipes with heads on them. I don't know.
[Camerota:] Five hundred miles.
[Karem:] Yes.
[Camerota:] So how how are Democrats to know what to negotiate with here?
[Karem:] How is anybody to know what to do? First of all, happy new year to all of you.
[Camerota:] And to you.
[Karem:] Let's start out that before we unpack this action-packed episode. Look, the president started out picking this up on the campaign trail. It was 1,900 miles long, and he was going to cede parts of the United States to build it, because I've got news for you: if you've ever been to the Big Bend area of Texas, you can't build a wall there. It's like the Grand Canyon. As recently as last week, I tried to get specifics on where the wall would be built. Like, for example, the say, 55 miles around Laredo, Texas? Well, what 55 miles? Where is it going to be placed? What is it going to be built there? How far back is it going to there's no specifics on this. This whole thing is very fluid. And as the Democrats pointed out, and has been pointed out time and again, he didn't spend the money last year in the budget that was allocated for border security, so why give him more? I think that he has not a clue as to where it's going to be or what it's going to be. The Democrats don't really know what he wants. And so you're left negotiating in quicksand. You're going to be back where you were at the beginning of all this mess before Ann Coulter shot her mouth off and, you know, hardened pharaoh's heart. He was going to compromise. Ten days ago on a Wednesday, he said, "Look, we have a compromise," he will sign a C.R. And he didn't sign that continuing resolution, because the base came out and hammered him on the fact that he didn't go after the wall. It is a pointless issue. It will not stop anything that it claims it will stop. And the cold-hearted nature of the president of the United States blaming Democrats for the death of those two children disgusts me on a level that I can't even it's hard to even talk about. I mean, he will blame Democrats for the death of two children with no evidence. And mind you, he said he'd own the shutdown. But here's the big thing: Why hasn't he come out and demanded some retribution or at least accountability from the Saudis on the death of Jamal Khashoggi? Here we have real evidence of someone causing someone's death, but he doesn't go after them. He goes after Democrats on a wall. And it's horrid. It's just a horrid issue all the way around. And it was an issue that was built, basically, around appealing to his base. And you're left in this quagmire
[Camerota:] Yes.
[Karem:] of trying to figure out what it is that will actually be built when everyone agrees, Democrats and Republicans on the Hill, that we need more money. We need to reinforce
[Camerota:] And border security.
[Karem:] the fencing. Right.
[Camerota:] Yes, I mean, that's the absurd thing about all this.
[Karem:] Right.
[Camerota:] There actually is a consensus, but you wouldn't know that from day ten of the government shutdown.
[Karem:] No, not from Trump.
[Hill:] No, you wouldn't. And what's fascinating is, yes, we'll see Democrats take control of the House later this week. We know that there's that issue that the president's going to have to deal with for the next two years. But when it comes to the Senate, there's still obviously a large number of Republican there, right? They're still a majority in the Senate. And the fact that even Republicans, Jackie, aren't sure where to go on this and don't want to speak out publicly, because the president so publicly burned them, that in and of itself, is a major issue moving forward.
[Jackie Kucinich, Cnn Political Analyst:] What this goes down to, it's basic. It's trust. There isn't trust between the Congress and the president on both sides of the political aisle, because as you said, Erica, they have been burned. Lindsey Graham coming out and saying that the president is interested in striking a deal having to do with DACA recipients and TPS recipients. Sure, I'm sure the president said that to Lindsey Graham. However, has Stephen Miller, one of the president's most hawkish immigration advisers, gotten to him yet? Because after he does, the president might not be there anymore. So when you look at the polling about a couple weeks ago before the government shutdown, a majority of people did not want to see the government shutdown. They wanted to see the president and the Congress compromise. Now when you break it down and you look at Democrats, independents and Republicans, Republicans don't want the president to compromise on this. They don't want him to to back down, and that's the numbers he's looking at. This is a president who is going to be increasingly political as he gets closer and closer to reelection. And we're just seeing the beginning of that now.
[Camerota:] Well, John Kelly reinforced this. He gave this extraordinary interview for two hours on the phone to "The Los Angeles Times." It was basically his exit interview. I guess he felt unencumbered, or whatever, unplugged, and was able to talk to "The L.A. Times." And he talked about the ever-evolving vision of the wall, and he said something surprising, which is that it's not a wall. It hasn't been for a long time. So here's what he said: "To be honest, it's not a wall. The president still says "wall.'Oftentimes, frankly, he'll say 'barrier'or 'fencing." Now he's tended towards steel slats. But we left a solid, concrete wall early on in the administration." And so Nia, I mean, what are we even arguing over? It's not a wall. Everybody wants border security. If the Democrats, I think, should seize on this, and say, "OK, we'll give you some money towards a towards border security. You're not going to call it a wall any more. You're not going to get concrete, and we're done."
[Nia-malika Henderson, Cnn Senior Political Correspondent:] Yes, and in some ways you can see the president's aides out there backing off of the idea of a wall. He does keep calling it a wall, slats, whatever, but they are now talking about barriers. They are talking about border security. I don't think any of them that have been out there the last couple of days Mick Mulvaney, as well as Kellyanne Conway specifically said anything about a wall, certainly nothing at all about a concrete wall that's 900 miles long, which is where the president evolved to eventually, and apparently, he's somewhere else now. I think for the president, the president is going to have to figure out what he can sell to his base.
[Kucinich:] Exactly.
[Henderson:] He wants to apparently maybe go down to the wall at some point. He's got a very hawkish base on this issue. So what is he going to be able to sell as a win to his base?
[Karem:] That's it.
[Henderson:] And will they buy it? I think that's the question.
[Karem:] What he wants is a win. That's all he wants
[Henderson:] Yes.
[Karem:] is a win. He doesn't even care. That's the whole the whole this is so disingenuous. And nobody trusts him on either side. And I think Jackie pointed out, you know, who is he going to talk to? Has Stephen Miller weighed in? It's the Ann Coulters and the Sean Hannitys. I'm left back to where I was when, after Anonymous, you know, came out. Who's in charge in the White House?
[Camerota:] You know what? I'm
[Karem:] Who gets the last word?
[Camerota:] I'm literally texting Ann Coulter right now to see if she'll settle for a 500-mile 500-mile fence.
[Karem:] Yes. Yes. Let's call Ann up.
[Camerota:] Ann, I'm asking.
[Hill:] See if she knows, too, what the 115 miles the president was referring to last week. Have we figured out, by the way, what that was?
[Henderson:] Yes, that's right.
[Karem:] We don't know what it is.
[Henderson:] It's him making stuff up. I mean, he you know, in many ways this has always been a figment of his imagination.
[Karem:] Exactly.
[Henderson:] It's like there's going to be a concrete wall. Originally, Mexico was going to pay for it. And he's evolved since them.
[Karem:] Remember when it was going to be see-through, Nia, and it was going to be eco-friendly.
[Henderson:] That's right. There were solar panels, I think, at some point.
[Karem:] And then it was
[Kucinich:] And I think this is bottom line, this is why there's such a problem negotiating on this, because he keeps on moving the goal post or the metal slats, as they were, in this in this debate. And
[Karem:] It would be funny if it weren't so dag-gone serious. I mean, it's like a bad open-mic night. It's just horrid for
[Hill:] But also, as we're watching this, too, Jackie, we're seeing I mean, as we're talking about, "Oh, you know, we're moving the goal posts or the slats, or whatever they may be," and as we laughed, you're right
[Camerota:] The goal posts.
[Hill:] Right, goal posts, you know, things from people, I don't know at this point. We've seen so much. The beaded curtain, according to Nancy Pelosi.
[Karem:] Spikes with heads on them.
[Hill:] Spikes, exactly. But as you as you look at this, you know, Nia, you touched on a little bit how the messaging is changing. I think Kellyanne Conway made it very clear yesterday what the new messaging is, in trying to put it back on Democrats once again, which plays into the point of this has to be a win for the president, by saying, "But it's not about the wall, and everybody's trying to make it about the wall, and it isn't." I mean, Jackie, when you look at all of that, the messaging is very clear.
[Kucinich:] I think it is and it isn't. I think by inserting all of these things about border security and the wall and metal slats, I think they are muddying the waters quite a bit to give the president some room. But you're right in that, you know, blaming Democrats is the name of the game, be it, you know, the wall, the shutdown, even though the president himself said, "This is my shutdown." I was I was Googling around. It's funny. The Schumer shutdown actually was, when you Google "Schumer shutdown," on a lot of things from 2018, January of last year come up. So we're seeing a lot of this just replay itself.
[Karem:] Well, let's
[Kucinich:] And it's I can't imagine how frustrating it is for these federal workers who are currently on furlough
[Karem:] Right. There you go.
[Kucinich:] or working without pay watching this.
[Karem:] And let's be honest. When you mention Erica, you mentioned Kellyanne Conway, she has zero credibility. She's the one who gave us "alternative facts." OK?
[Camerota:] But she has insight. I mean, she does have insight into
[Karem:] She does have insight, but
[Camerota:] what the president is saying.
[Karem:] she just spins. She spins everything.
[Henderson:] Yes.
[Karem:] She is like the president in the fact that she will take words and speak them, but that doesn't mean that they have any relationship with reality. And then we will come back later and spin something else. They will spin this into a victory, no matter what goes down, even if we end up going back to the C.R. or something reasonably close, including DACA. That will be a victory, as far as the president goes and as far as Kellyanne goes.
[Camerota:] OK.
[Karem:] Facts do not matter when they speak.
[Camerota:] Thank you all. Great talking to you.
[Henderson:] Happy new year.
[Karem:] Always fun.
[Hill:] Happy new year.
[Henderson:] And to you.
[Hill:] Speaking of new year, it is already 2019 in Auckland, New Zealand, the first major city to welcome in the new year about an hour ago. And in case you missed it, here's a look and a listen. I think they are already enjoying the first few moments of 2019 there. Of course, here in New York City we are expecting, I believe, about a million people to pack Times Square tonight to ring in the new year. Security expected to be tight, as always. CNN's Miguel Marquez is live in Times Square with more. We should point out, too, Alisyn Camerota will be there tonight to help drop the ball, Miguel.
[Miguel Marquez, Cnn Correspondent:] Alisyn Camerota is usually pressing everybody else's button. Tonight she gets to press the button
[Camerota:] Woo!
[Marquez:] to bring the ball down. That's so that's when the ball is going to come down. Daylight is starting to break. We can see those rain clouds that are going to be here later. But that pole at the very end of that building there, that's where it will come down. And yes, there will be security. They're expecting a million they're planning for up to 2 billion [SIC] revelers to be in this area, over a ton of confetti, and lots and lots of security. Hundreds of police and agents from over 50 different agencies, the local, state and federal levels. They're going to have bomb-sniffing dogs, magnetometers. The bomb squad will be here, as well. Police will embed themselves in hotels around the area. And those pens that they allow the revelers into, those open up at 11 a.m. in the morning. And it's a little like Hotel California, in that you can check in anytime you want, but if you have to leave you're out. You can't get back in, unless you have to wait in line again. So you better have your restroom strategy figured out before you go into those pens if you are going to be one of the few, the strong, the brave and with the serious bladders of steel there. One thing extra this year for security they will have is drones.
[John Miller, Nypd Deputy Commissioner Of Intelligence And Counterterrorism:] We will be deploying NYPD drones for overwatch. We haven't done that before, but that's going to give us a visual aid and the flexibility of being able to move a camera to a certain spot with great rapidity through a tremendous crowd.
[Marquez:] Now, those drones will actually be tethered to a building, so if there is a technical fault with them, they won't actually fall onto the crowd. Also, Alisyn, Erica, if you're going to be bring your drone out here and try to fly it over the crowd, there're going to have anti-drone technology that can bring those drones down somehow. They're not saying exactly how. The biggest issue this year may be the weather, not the cold as it often is here, but the rain. They're starting about 1 p.m. or so. It's supposed to start raining, and it is going to be soggy, soggy, soggy for much of the afternoon. So let's hope it clears up by the new year; and everybody goes nuts and all that confetti doesn't get stuck to people's faces in the weather.
[Camerota:] Great point. That would be unpleasant. But it's still just so exhilarating. It's such an exciting night. It just gives you goosebumps when you're down there. So I can't wait to be there. I'll tell you more about pressing the wall later in the program. Miguel, thank you very much. Now this story. There's this disturbing video from a detention center on the border, and it shows workers mistreating these migrant children. It's really upsetting when you see the video. We'll tell you what's being done about it.