Yamanik Cholotio: My name is Yamanik Cholotio, I am from Guatemala and I work at the Guatemalan Federation of Radio Schools (FGER), which is an organization that brings together and works with community radios, which are autonomous radios that use the languages of the region in their multilingual radio programs. I’m a communicator, an indigenous feminist woman, and I work on the issue of communication, women and management at the local level.
Claudia Pozo: Yamanik, tell us a little about the current context of indigenous languages in Guatemala.
Yamanik Cholotio: In Guatemala there are 25 languages from which 24 are native. 22 of them are Mayan and the rest are Xinca, Garifuna and Spanish. Although there are 24 native languages, Spanish is the one that predominates. There are 2, 3 languages (or maybe a little more), that are spoken by less than 300 people. There are 5 major indigenous languages which are K’ichel, Kaqchikel, Tz’utujil, Q’eqchil and Mam. K’ichel, Kaqchikel and Tz’utujil have different variants but there are words which mean the same. The Q’eqchil and Mam are quite different. Taking into account that K’ichel, Kaqchikel and Tz’utujil have the same variants, more content or tools have been developed on the internet on these languages. One that I highlight is the Wikipedia in Kaqchikel that is still in the bubble: it has not yet been able to go out because there are people who speak the language but do not write it. So that’s a barrier for not being able to continue producing content on Wikipedia in Kaqchikel.
There are also people who use their language in commercial digital networks, such as Facebook, Twitter, and now they are getting into Instagram. There are YouTube channels with content in K’ichel as well. Also, there are people creating content in these commercial networks in Tz’utujil. There is a dictionary that is being developed in Q’anjob’al and in K’ichel, but with a certain limit of words. Overall, the limitations are great, there are tools that are being used to continue developing the 5 major languages, but the challenge is: what are we going to do with the languages that are disappearing? If we are using these platforms for the 5 major languages, how do we use those same tools or how do we create new tools to be able to save the ones that are disappearing? Because the idea is not to stay with those 5 only, the idea is to keep the 24 indigenous languages spoken in Guatemala.
Claudia Pozo: Tell us more about the experience of Wikipedia in Kaqchikel. How the did the initiative start and what is its current state?
Yamanik Cholotio: The Academy of Mayan Languages of Guatemala, that emerges under the Peace Agreements, regulates the languages and a single variant of each. In the case of Kaqchikel Chimaltenango, the headquarters of the Kaqchikel linguistic community are located in Chimaltenango and they are in charge of regulating that language. So, a group of people who speak and write their language — who are not exactly in the academy, but are involved in projects about linguism, met with a group of people that wanted to preserve their language and had many ideas on how to do it. They met in 2007 and the idea of creating content in Kaqchikel came out. A group of about 50 people was gradually reduced to just a few who were interested in receiving online workshops on how to edit Wikipedia. Fast forward, in 2017 there is already a certain amount of uploaded articles, but Wikipedia is not well-known in the scene yet. So they organized a meeting of digital activists in Kaqchikel to publicize different projects they were doing (in other languages but mainly in Kaqchikel), and the project of the Wikipedia in Kaqchikel came out and that is when many people get interested in knowing more and once again workshops on how to edit Wikipedia are held. Finally, in 2018 a public presentation event for Wikipedia in Kaqchikel is made.
Also around that time, we organized an only women edit-a-thon, with the goal of writing 20-25 articles about women. Even though we exceeded this goal, the Wikipedia in Kaqchikel remains in the bubble because people do not write in their indigenous language. We want to replicate this experience in more languages with different linguistic communities, but since Kaqchikel is a major language (and given the fact that it remains in the bubble) it is a challenge to be able to do Wikipedia in other languages. But the experience is already there, the initiative is already there, but it does take a commitment from those who speak and write the language. Unfortunately there is a lack of interest because this work is not paid, but it is an extra amount of time that is put on top of our daily activities and work. So, it’s a project that is there, which has been one of the greatest achievements of the Kaqchikel speakers, but the challenge ahead is still huge.
Claudia Pozo: What other challenges do you identify for bringing indigenous languages into the internet, while also contributing to preserve them?
Yamanik Cholotio: The issue of discrimination is something we should talk about - and racism. Nobody is ever prepared to be a victim of racism. I think one can speak of racism when she or he wants to exercise a right but can’t do it. For example: I am using my language on the bus and someone looks at me badly or tells me something and then what I do is stay quiet, or I don’t use my traditional attire, or something like that. I think that is one of the main challenges. The second is the digital gap in indigenous communities: there is no internet connection, and if there is, they are Facebook, WhatsApp and Instagram packages, and that is what people are staying with and that is why some of the content is there. So, people in the communities do not have access to the internet. Another challenge is the one we mentioned earlier: there are people who speak an indigenous language but do not write it, so there is a sort of illiteracy in the indigenous communities, and it’s not due to lack of interest, but because in the indigenous communities there is lack of education, food, etc., so it’s quite difficult in that context that people will be able to learn to write their language.
Claudia Pozo: In this landscape, it seems that there are indigenous communities working with languages and technologies on the one hand, and on the other hand there are tech communities developing tools and platforms. Do you think these can be bridged? What would we need for achieving that?
Yamanik Cholotio: Yes, I believe that a bridge can be built. Ultimately I think that is what people who are working on the issue of indigenous languages and technology are asking for: that platforms are more accessible to indigenous communities. For instance that they take into account the signs, the dieresis, and other symbols that are highly needed — if you don’t use them it’s like you are not writing your language correctly. I think it can be done. Also, there is a need to be able to continue translating the platforms on the internet, and this poses a question that is not being asked: the issue of questioning whether Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp, or Facebook, translated into your indigenous language, makes sense, makes you feel good, or not, whether it’s a necessity or not. For many people, for example Firefox that is already translated into Kaqchikel, is a necessity, but is it appropriate technology or not?. I think the point is being able to create interest from tech communities towards the indigenous communities, who are already doing a lot, and articulate more so that the indigenous languages are present on the internet.
Claudia Pozo: Thank you so much for your time, it’s been lovely talking to you Yamanik. Do you have comments or something else you’d like to add before saying goodbye?
Yamanik Cholotio: Thank you to everybody who listened to us, and let’s continue supporting languages and appropriate technologies. Perhaps something that I want to stress: that indigenous communities do not want to say or publish everything. There is a matter of respect towards the recognition of our knowledge, and towards what we want to publish – and what we don’t. I believe these are issues that technological communities should have in mind as well. Many thanks.
Yamanik Cholotio, Mwatalaimu wa Guatemala, ni mwanzilishi wa Shirika la Shule za Redio la Guatemala (FGER), shirika linalohusisha na kufanya kazi na redio za jamii, ambazo ni redio za kujitegemea zinazotumia lugha za mkoa katika programu zao za redio za lugha nyingi. Mimi ni mtangazaji, mwanamke wa kikabila wa kike, na ninafanya kazi kwenye suala la mawasiliano, wanawake na usimamizi katika ngazi ya ndani. "Mwanamke Yamanik, ulituambia hivi: ""Ninaamini kwamba kuna watu wengi sana katika nchi ya Guatemala ambao wanajua lugha za asili." Yamanik Cholotio: Katika Guatemala kuna lugha 25 ambazo 24 ni za asili. 22 kati yao ni Wamaya na wengine ni Xinca, Garifuna na Kihispania. Ingawa kuna lugha 24 za asili, Kihispania ndicho kinachotumiwa zaidi. Kuna lugha 2, 3 (au labda kidogo zaidi), ambazo huzungumzwa na watu chini ya 300. Kuna lugha tano kuu za wenyeji ambazo ni K'ichel, Kaqchikel, Tzutujil, Q'eqchil na Mam. Kichel, Kaqchikel na Tzutujil zina tofauti tofauti lakini kuna maneno ambayo yanamaanisha sawa. Qeqchil na Mam ni tofauti kabisa. Kwa kuzingatia kwamba Kichel, Kaqchikel na Tzutujil zina tofauti sawa, maudhui zaidi au zana zimetengenezwa kwenye mtandao kwenye lugha hizi. Wikipedia ya Kikakhchikel bado haijaanza kuendeshwa kwa lugha ya Kikakhchikel, lakini kuna watu wanaozungumza lugha hiyo lakini hawaiandikii. Kwa hiyo hiyo ni kizuizi kwa kutoweza kuendelea kuzalisha maudhui kwenye Wikipedia katika Kaqchikel. Pia kuna watu wanaotumia lugha yao katika mitandao ya kibiashara ya dijiti, kama vile Facebook, Twitter, na sasa wanaingia kwenye Instagram. Kuna vituo vya YouTube na maudhui katika Kichel pia. Pia, kuna watu wanaotengeneza maudhui katika mitandao hii ya kibiashara huko Tz<unk>utujil. Kuna kamusi ambayo inaendelezwa katika Qanjobal na katika Kichel, lakini kwa kikomo fulani cha maneno. "Kutokana na hali hii, ni muhimu kutambua kwamba kuna ""viungo"" vinavyoweza kuendeleza lugha tano kuu, lakini ni vigumu kujua ni nini kinachotokea kwa lugha ambazo zinapotea." Kama tunafanya kazi kwa lugha tano kuu, tunawezaje kutumia zana hizo au kuunda zana mpya ili kuokoa zile zinazopotea? Kwa sababu wazo si kubaki na wale 5 tu, wazo ni kuweka lugha 24 za asili zinazozungumzwa nchini Guatemala. Claudia Pozo: Tuambie zaidi kuhusu uzoefu wa Wikipedia katika Kaqchikel. Mpango huu ulianzaje na uko katika hali gani sasa? Yamanik Cholotio: Chuo cha Lugha za Maya cha Guatemala, ambacho kinaibuka chini ya Mikataba ya Amani, kinadhibiti lugha na tofauti moja ya kila moja. Kwa mfano, katika lugha ya Kachikel, makao makuu ya jamii ya lugha ya Kachikel yanapatikana huko Chimaltenango na wanahusika na udhibiti wa lugha hiyo. Kwa hivyo, kikundi cha watu ambao huzungumza na kuandika lugha yao - ambao sio hasa katika chuo kikuu, lakini wanahusika katika miradi kuhusu lugha - walikutana na kikundi cha watu ambao walitaka kuhifadhi lugha yao na walikuwa na mawazo mengi juu ya jinsi ya kufanya hivyo. Mwaka 2007 walianza kufanya kazi na kuanzisha kampuni ya kuunda video za Kachikuyu. Kikundi cha watu 50 kilipunguzwa hatua kwa hatua hadi watu wachache tu ambao walipendezwa na kupokea warsha za mtandaoni za jinsi ya kuhariri Wikipedia. Kwa mujibu wa Wikipedia, katika mwaka wa 2017 kuna idadi ya makala zilizopakiwa, lakini Wikipedia haijulikani sana katika eneo hilo. "Kama ilivyoelezwa hapo juu, Wikipedia ni ""kitu cha kawaida"" katika lugha ya Kichina, na kwa hivyo, kwa sababu ya kuvutia kwa watu wengi, wiki hii imewekwa kwenye tovuti ya Wikipedia." Mwaka 2018 wiki hii, wiki ya Wikipedia ya Katikati imefunguliwa. "Kama ilivyoelezwa hapo juu, ""Mwanamke wa kwanza wa kuongoza"" ni ""Mwanamke wa kwanza wa kuongoza"" na ""Mwanamke wa kwanza wa kuongoza"" ni ""Mwanamke wa kwanza wa kuongoza"" na ""Mwanamke wa kwanza wa kuongoza"" ni ""Mwanamke wa kwanza wa kuongoza.""" Ingawa tulizidi lengo hili, Wikipedia katika Kaqchikel inabaki katika Bubble kwa sababu watu hawaandiki katika lugha yao ya asili. Tunataka kuiga uzoefu huu katika lugha zaidi na jamii tofauti za lugha, lakini kwa kuwa Kaqchikel ni lugha kuu (na ikizingatiwa ukweli kwamba inabaki katika Bubble), ni changamoto kuweza kufanya Wikipedia katika lugha zingine. Lakini uzoefu tayari upo, mpango tayari upo, lakini inachukua kujitolea kutoka kwa wale wanaozungumza na kuandika lugha hiyo. Kwa bahati mbaya kuna ukosefu wa maslahi kwa sababu kazi hii hailipwi, lakini ni kiasi cha ziada cha wakati ambao huwekwa juu ya shughuli zetu za kila siku na kazi. Kwa hiyo, ni mradi ambao uko hapo, ambao umekuwa moja ya mafanikio makubwa ya wasemaji wa Kaqchikel, lakini changamoto iliyo mbele bado ni kubwa. Claudia Pozzo: Ni changamoto gani nyingine unazotambua kwa kuleta lugha za asili kwenye mtandao, wakati pia unachangia kuhifadhiwa kwao? Yamanik Cholotio: Suala la ubaguzi ni kitu ambacho tunapaswa kuzungumza juu yake - na ubaguzi wa rangi. Hakuna mtu aliyewahi kuwa tayari kuwa mhasiriwa wa ubaguzi wa rangi. Nadhani mtu anaweza kuzungumza juu ya ubaguzi wa rangi wakati yeye au yeye anataka kutumia haki lakini hawezi kufanya hivyo. Kwa mfano: Mimi ni kutumia lugha yangu kwenye basi na mtu ananiangalia vibaya au ananiambia kitu na kisha nini mimi kufanya ni kukaa kimya, au mimi si kutumia mavazi yangu ya jadi, au kitu kama hicho. Nadhani hiyo ni moja ya changamoto kuu. "Kama kuna ""digital gap"" katika jamii za wenyeji, hakuna mtandao, na ikiwa kuna, ni Facebook, WhatsApp na Instagram, na ndio watu wanaokaa na hivyo baadhi ya maudhui ni huko." Kwa hiyo, watu katika jamii hawana upatikanaji wa mtandao. Tatizo jingine ni lile tulilozungumzia hapo awali: kuna watu wanaozungumza lugha ya wenyeji lakini hawaandiki, kwa hivyo kuna aina ya ukosefu wa kusoma na kuandika katika jamii za wenyeji, na sio kwa sababu ya ukosefu wa maslahi, lakini kwa sababu katika jamii za wenyeji kuna ukosefu wa elimu, chakula, nk, kwa hivyo ni ngumu sana katika muktadha huo kwamba watu wataweza kujifunza kuandika lugha yao. "Mwanamke mmoja wa jamii hiyo, Claudia Pozzo, alisema: ""Kuna jamii za wenyeji wanaofanya kazi na lugha na teknolojia kwa upande mmoja, na kwa upande mwingine kuna jamii za teknolojia zinazotengeneza zana na majukwaa." Je, unafikiri kwamba mambo hayo yanaweza kutatuliwa? Tunahitaji nini ili kufikia mradi huo? Yamanik Cholotio: Ndiyo, naamini kwamba daraja linaweza kujengwa. Kwa kweli, hii ni moja ya sababu za watu wanaofanya kazi katika lugha za asili na teknolojia: kwamba majukwaa yanapatikana kwa jamii za asili. Kwa mfano kwamba wao kuzingatia ishara, dieresis, na ishara nyingine ambayo ni muhimu sana <unk> kama wewe <unk> si kutumia yao ni kama wewe <unk> si kuandika lugha yako kwa usahihi. Nadhani inaweza kufanywa. Pia, kuna haja ya kuweza kuendelea kutafsiri majukwaa kwenye mtandao, na hii inazua swali ambalo halijaulizwa: suala la kuhoji ikiwa Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp, au Facebook, iliyotafsiriwa katika lugha yako ya asili, ina maana, inakufanya uhisi vizuri, au la, ikiwa ni lazima au la. Kwa watu wengi, kwa mfano Firefox ambayo tayari imetafsiriwa katika Kaqchikel, ni uhitaji, lakini ni teknolojia sahihi au la?. """Nafikiri lengo ni kuweza kuunda maslahi kutoka kwa jamii za teknolojia kuelekea jamii za wenyeji, ambao tayari wanafanya mengi, na kuelezea zaidi ili lugha za wenyeji ziwepo kwenye mtandao." Claudia Pozo: Asanteni sana kwa muda wenu, imekuwa ni lovely kuzungumza na wewe Yamanik. Je, una maoni au kitu kingine ungependa kuongeza kabla ya kusema kwaheri? Yamanik Cholotio: Asanteni kila mtu aliyetusikiliza, na hebu tuendelee kuunga mkono lugha na teknolojia zinazofaa. Labda kitu ambacho ningependa kusisitiza: kwamba jamii za wenyeji hazitaki kusema au kuchapisha kila kitu. Kuna suala la heshima kuelekea utambuzi wa maarifa yetu, na kuelekea kile tunachotaka kuchapisha <unk> na kile hatutaki. Ninaamini haya ni masuala ambayo jamii za kiteknolojia zinapaswa kuwa nazo akilini pia. Asanteni sana.