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AW Greatest Distance Runners of All Time
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AW Greatest Distance Runners of All Time
I got my copy of AW this morning and this was inside
from front page
http://www.athleticsweekly.com/blog/the ... -all-time/
I think the scoring system is very flawed, Kenny basically wins because he won loads of XC races that others didn't have the opportunity to take part in does anyone actually rate him above Geb ?
I don't think anyone would argue with who's included, but the order is all wrong
As for the women, it's almost impossible to judge considering the lack of opportunities for women before the late 80's
If Greta had had Marathon and 10k (or even 5k) opportunities from late 70's who knows what she could have done and Deratu in 9th !!
Re: AW Greatest Distance Runners of All Time
This is what I make of the most pertinent data:
1. Nurmi
Olympics: 4 gold, 3 silver.
World No.1 rankings: 4 (1500m), 6 (5000m), 7 (10,000m), 1 (steeplechase).
2. Bekele
Olympics: 3 gold, 1 silver.
World No.1 rankings: 5 (5000m), 6 (10,000m).
3. Gebrselassie
Olympics: 2 gold.
World No.1 rankings: 5 (5000m), 6 (10,000m).
Re: AW Greatest Distance Runners of All Time
Nurmi didn't have a chance, with no WC's.
And what about those WWII athletes who missed out on TWO Olympic Games??
And while I may sound like a (BAD) broken record, I can't agree with giving top credit to an OG winner who only "RUNS" the last two laps of a 10K or a 5K....while dissing on the guy (or gal) who attacks from the gun, and never lets up!!
As noted by others, too many flaws to get an accurate (and acceptable!!!) listing!!
One example: How can ANYONE ignore Ron Clarke??
Because he didn't get a Gold Medal??
Any list without Clarke in the TOP FIVE isn't a list worthy of its name!!
Re: AW Greatest Distance Runners of All Time
This is an impossible task, and I agree with alot of the gripes above. There is, very obviously, no clear and definitive ("objective") answer here. Basically, however, I'm cautious about over-valuing recent performers simply because they're fresh in our memory; AND overvaluing Olympic results (Viren vs. Clarke).
For what little it's worth, I absolutely rate Geb over Bekele. It is interesting how close many of their "stats" are. However, in terms of re-writing the history book, and resetting our expectations, there is no contest: Geb lowered the 5000 record by a total of 19 seconds, while Bekele lowered it by 2. Similarly, Geb lowered the 10,000 record by 30 seconds; Bekele by 5. Geb never managed to be great in x-c, as we know but his marathon WRs compensate for that.
But all this is one opinion among a host of others.
Re: AW Greatest Distance Runners of All Time
What about Zatopek? The guy won 4 golds and a silver at the Olympics and set somwhere in the region of 17-20 world records (different sources list different numbers). That 5/10/marathon triple has not been matched before or since. Plus I think his impact on his events was even greater than Gebs'. He improved the 10,000 record by an even bigger margin, redefined standards and also helped instistute a training revolution.
I think it's clearly between Nurmi, Zatopek, Geb and Bekele, but I honestly can't decide between these four. I actually think it's futile to compare Nurmi or Zatopek with the latter two, the conditions are just too different.
Re: AW Greatest Distance Runners of All Time
1. Nurmi
Olympics: 4 gold, 3 silver.
World No.1 rankings: 4 (1500m), 6 (5000m), 7 (10,000m), 1 (steeplechase).
2. Zátopek
Olympics: 4 gold, 1 silver.
World No.1 rankings: 5 (5000m), 7 (10,000m), 1 (marathon).
3. Bekele
Olympics: 3 gold, 1 silver.
World No.1 rankings: 5 (5000m), 6 (10,000m).
4. Gebrselassie
Olympics: 2 gold.
World No.1 rankings: 5 (5000m), 6 (10,000m).
Now Geb's down to 4th!
Re: AW Greatest Distance Runners of All Time
(also, completely agree w kuha's comments, above, on both the challenge of this task, and the assessment of Geb v Bekele. KB may be faster (at some distances), but Geb is "greater", for the reasons kuha cited. IMO, of course. )
Last edited by Master Po on Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: AW Greatest Distance Runners of All Time
I would like to see the rest of this list. AW set fairly rigid criteria. But it's their game.
I wonder how many folks here on the T&FN forum could come up with the rest of the list on their own, based on AW's qualifications. I couldn't. But there is some deep track knowledge in these parts.
Re: AW Greatest Distance Runners of All Time
I think they used Mel Watman's criteria which he devised a few years ago when he did a series of the ten greatest athletes per event. My main bug-bear is it gives too much emphasis on being WR holder and Kratochvilova was subsequently ranked No.1 over 800m simply because she's held the record since the days of the Black Death. If I had to rank the greatest 800m runners, Mutola, Quirot, Wodars, Olizarenko would all be ahead of Kratochvilova.
Likewise, Wang Junxia and Qu Yunxia are both ranked a long way inside the top-20 because of their WRs so it does tend to inflate the rankings of athletes who've just had one or two incredible seasons.
I think it's an impossible task and any proposed ranking system has its flaws but if you were to call the two or three best ever runners from each event, they're all in the top-20 and in pretty much the order you'd expect (but maybe not in the right place within the top-20, if that makes sense )
Re: AW Greatest Distance Runners of All Time
I always find these exercises in assessing who might be "best ever" in various events to be interesting, whether I agree or not (and as always it's usually a bit of both). What I most appreciate is when the method of assessment is made as clear as possible, i.e., as noted just above -- if that person values WR highly so be it. I'm interested to know that, and to know why, even though I am inclined to value championships more highly.
Re: AW Greatest Distance Runners of All Time
Didn't Derartu Tulu win a "big city marathon"? (2009 NYC)
That accomplishment seems to be omitted.
Re: AW Greatest Distance Runners of All Time
She also won London and Tokyo (probably not a big city marathon) in 2001
Re: AW Greatest Distance Runners of All Time
Nice to see someone who 'gets it'. This piece was never intended to be a definitive list; it's not like we're saying "these are the greatest, and that's it." Criteria or no criteria, people will always disagree on this kind of topic. We just attempted to come up with some sort of scoring system that could be used to devise a ranking, taking away the possibility for any personal bias to creep in (which is what often happens when people try to rank the greatest athletes). We could have simply compiled a top-20 list based purely on our gut feeling with maybe Geb in No.1, Nurmi at 2, Bekele 3, etc, but then that would lead us open to questioning about how we came to our conclusions. At least by doing it this way, we lay out exactly what the criteria are, showing that it's as objective as possible.
It's just a talking point, and by the evidence of this thread then the piece has 'succeeded'. I'd be very interested to hear constructive suggestions as to how/why/if such a scoring system could be tweaked.
Besides, it's not that crazy for a multiple world champ/Olympic champ/World Cross champ/world record-holder to come out on top, is it?!
To specifically address a few of the other points on this thread...
- Yes, athletes competing up until the 1970/80s obviously didn't have the opportunity to compete in the World Champs or World Cross, which means this points system may work in the favour of current-day athletes. But at the same time, athletes nowadays are competing in a FAR more competitive era, meaning points are even more difficult to come by.
Re: AW Greatest Distance Runners of All Time
(continued after reaching word limit)...
- Re: Geb vs Kenny, Bekele has more Olympic and World titles, his world records at 5000m and 10,000m have lasted just as long (and are still going strong), and he has 11 World Cross titles to his name (such an incredible achievement that shouldn't be ignored when deciding who is the greatest distance runner). Geb had the opportunity to compete in the World Cross, but he never focused on it. And while Geb has a good marathon record, his lack of championship medals in that event works against him. Geb of course also has great longevity (which is one of the main reasons many feel he is the GOAT), but is there an easy way to factor that into a scoring system?
Very true, which is why points are awarded for the length of a world record. If an athlete is ahead of their time and sets a near-untouchable WR that lasts for several years, that's why they're given 2pts for each year as WR-holder. Bekele may have only marginally improved on Geb's WRs, but they've gone similarly unchallenged. Short of devising some sort of convoluted formula that factors in the percentage each WR was improved by and then assigning points for each performance, there is no easy way of scoring big world record improvements.
Clarke came out in 17th. He may have been a multiple world record-holder, but so were many of the other people ahead of him. And they had Olympic/world titles to their name.
Another good point, but if the scoring for long-standing 'ahead-of-their-time' world records were adjusted, then the likes of Radcliffe would probably drop outside the top 10. Most people's gut feeling (mine included!) will tell them that Radcliffe deserves to be high up on the list, but her relative lack of global medals works against her. Her biggest asset is the impact that she made with her marathon WR, and for that she deserves to be acknowledged. And the same applies to other athletes with long-standing world records.
Re: AW Greatest Distance Runners of All Time
Totally agree that the basic need here is simply making the overall criteria clear. The issue is that "greatest" really is about a combination of quantitative and qualitative matters. One of these lends itself to formulae of various kinds; the other is harder to measure precisely (or simply).
Re: AW Greatest Distance Runners of All Time
perhaps I can pose another question, in the hopes that Jon will use it as a means to discuss/reflect further on the methods of this exercise in making a "greatest" list. Again -- to be clear -- not being argumentative. I think these exercises are interesting, especially when they don't come out the way I would expect (e.g., Kuts, Kolehmainen, who I haven't really thought carefully enough about). So, then -- it's a challenge in a bunch of ways, across eras and events -- including for instance a comparison of someone who was primarily a 1500m runner (El G) with someone who was a marathon specialist (Bikila). I note that there are some marathoners in these top 10s, but it is a part of their profile (although with some, eg, Waitz,it's a big part), rather than their entire profile. Perhaps this is a way of suggesting that anyone who makes the top 10 must excel in multiple events.
Here's the question, finally: Is it possible under this methodology for someone who was a marathoner, and marathoner only -- Bikila -- to be ranked in the top 10? Does a case like his lead to further consideration of the methodology? This question is of course driven by my gut feeling (i.e., no methodology in view) that I would want him in the top 10 of any list. But again, just asking this to get further thoughts from Jon.
Re: AW Greatest Distance Runners of All Time
Catherine Ndereba (#10 on women's list) is a marathon specialist, isn't she?
I don't remember her doing anything notable in track or XC.
Re: AW Greatest Distance Runners of All Time
Whatever the criteria, AW's choices certainly are miles ahead of Runner's World's choice as runner of the 20th Century: Johnny Kelley Sr.!! Still boggles the mind....
Re: AW Greatest Distance Runners of All Time
Jon - fully appreciate that it is an article written to get a reaction and good news that the article achieved its purpose for you.
I am not keen on subjectivity which is earnestly sold as objectivity based on the misconception that if you have a scoring system then the output is not personally biased.
Change the weighting and change the result!
Pretty sure I could get my personal top five in the first five places in less than 10 minutes with an equally valid scoring system.
Clearly "athletes nowadays are competing in a FAR more competitive era"....nice sweeping justification for inclusion of world champs and world cross country points
Let's have 52 pts World Champs points for KB and another 68 pts for his world cross country endeavours and hey presto he is the AW greatest distance runner of all time.
I guess it is all a bit of fun to some but from my perspective it diminishes the credibility of the publication.
Re: AW Greatest Distance Runners of All Time
This topic should be addressed from both sides.
1) make overall assessments of the top athletes
2) use a numerical scale and come up with a 'number'.
Now, go find where the two are different and try to determine why the mechanism used in 2) ranks some higher and some lower than in 1). The bigger the differential, the ore likely that the scoring in 2) weights things in a manner that does not accomplish what you are after.
Re: AW Greatest Distance Runners of All Time
you are right. thanks for the correction -- didn't read all the way to the end of both lists. that noted, I think I posed a worthwhile question.
Re: AW Greatest Distance Runners of All Time
Jon wrote:
This is the bit that I think makes the scoring system unfair. There are far more opportunities for athletes from the last 20 years to accrue medals and thus points, than athletes up to the mid 1980's. At the same time I disagree that the current scene is that much more competitive than it was 30 years ago. Compared to the 40's to 60's, then yes, there is a marked difference, but not to the 80's. There were plenty of Africans at the very elite levels going back to Keino in the 60's.
Besides, there will usually be one or two competitors in any generation that will dominate, but one dominating this decade has 3 times as many chances of winning global titles on the track, and twice as many chances of winning X-country titles, compared to someone in the early 80's.
If we go back to pre WW2, then of course it was far easier to dominate for a long time due to lack of depth in competitors. In Nurmi's era, only a few European nations, the US and Australasia took much interest in T&F.
So, I think there is an era of perhaps 20 years or so (c. early 60's to early 80's) where the athletes are really at a disadvantage in this particular points scoring system. Someone like Ryun or Rono, both all time great middle & distance runners in my eyes, find themselves well down the running order, mainly because of when they were born.
Ryun had bad luck in 2 Olympics, but didn't have the benefit of bi-annual World Championships to make amends for his disappointments.
Rono broke many records yet missed out on Olympic glory due to a boycott in 1980.
Re: AW Greatest Distance Runners of All Time
The question is, how can their obviously impressive accomplishments gain some sort of recognition?
Here are a few suggestions.
1) Awarding 20 points for a WR in an Olympic event is great, but it doesn't give credit to those who break those world records several times. Thus, someone who breaks the WR once, but that lasts 10 years, will get 40 points (20 for the WR plus 10 x 2 for each season as WR holder).
Whereas someone who has gone out and broken a record 3 times (thus 3 times as much effort as the record breaker above) in the space of a few seasons, but who only stays record holder for a total of 5 seasons, will get only 30 points! (20 for WR in an event, plus 5 x 2).
To me this doesn't seem fair. The second athlete has gone out and proved himself the best ever on 3 occasions, yet only gets credit for 1!
I think a better, more weighted points system, would award 20 points for an initial WR at an Olympic event, plus a further 10 points for each subsequent WR mark at the same distance.
I think the 2 bonus points for each season as WR holder is good, because it recognises longevity and impact a person has on an event. Thus in the 2 scenarios given above, athlete 1 would gain the same 40 points, but the 3 times record breaker would get 50 points. In my eyes that's more balanced.
2) I think there should be some recognition for those who break WRs at non Olympic events, obviously within reason. Someone like Komen or Aouita should get credit for WRs in events like 3000m, the Mile, 1000m, etc, which have produced phenomenal performances over the years.
Obviously they are not as important as Olympic events, so award 10 points for any WR achieved in a non-Olympic event, as opposed to 20 points. As with the system outlined in point 1) above, any further WR's at this non-Olympic event will receive 5 points, and each season as WR holder will result in 1 point, rather than the 2 for Olympic events.
E.g. Aouita would get 10 points for his 4:50.81 WR at 2000m, plus 7 points for each of the completed seasons it stood as a WR. Thus he receives a total of 17 points.
At 3000m he would get 10 points for his 7:29.45 WR, plus 2 points for it lasting 2 full seasons. This gives a total of 12.
17 + 12 = 29. So straight away, Aouita's range and record breaking exploits are awarded.
Likewise, as another example, Coe would get 20 points for breaking the mile WR 3 times (10 for WR in a non Olympic event, plus 5 for 2 subsequent world records at the distance). This gives credit to an event which was frequently run at the time and which was probably more important than the 1500 WR at the time. He'd then get a bonus point for the 1st WR lasting a year, and then a further 3 points ( 1 per season) for his final WR lasting until 1985.
Therefore he gets 24 points in total for his exploits at an event greatly admired.
Re: AW Greatest Distance Runners of All Time
3) The awarding of 2 points per No.1 ranking per season is ok, but I don't think it gives enough credit for longevity of performances. For example, if athlete A ranks No.1 for 3 seasons in a row, before falling to c. 10 in the world for the rest of his/her career thereafter, he/she will get 6 points. His great rival, athlete B, is a close world ranking No. 2 for those same 3 seasons, but just as their main adversary begins to wain, a new dominating force emerges to take over the mantle as world number 1. Our unlucky Athlete B continues to be a great force in the event and is ranked world No. 2 for a further 6 seasons. Thus he managed to be ranked No. 2 in the world for 9 consecutive seasons, yet gets ZERO points for such consistently high standard efforts.
Surely, a more reflective system recognising longevity and impact on an event, would be to award 3 points for each No.1 ranking, 2 points for a No. 2 ranking and 1 for a No. 3 ranking!?
I would also award a bonus 2 points for every time someone is ranked no.1 in 2 events in any one season. Thus awarding diversity, rather than just specialising in one event. So someone who is ranked No. 1 at both 1500 & 5000 or 800 & 1500, or 5k & 10k, will get a bonus 2 points.
4) There is no real way to get around the fact that since 1991 athletes have had 3 times as many chances of winning a global title than their predecessors. One way of making it slightly less weighted in favour of recent athletes, is to take the World Cup into consideration. It was, after all, devised by the IAAF as a precursor to the first World Championships in 1983, and produced, in the early incarnations at least, some of the greatest moments in T&F history.
The 1977 & 81 World Cups in particular, threw up fields that were in many instances better than the 76 or 80 Olympic finals.
By recognising these early versions of the World Cup (up to and including 1989) there is at least a continuity going back as far as 1977, rather than 1991.
So, the 10 marks for a victory (5 for 2nd, 2 for bronze) would be awarded for the 77, 79 & 81 World Cups. Then you have the 83 World Champs, then the 85 World Cup, then the 87 World Champs, the 89 World Cup, the 91 World Champs, and then every World Champs held every 2 years thereafter.
Re: AW Greatest Distance Runners of All Time
5) My only other quibble with the AW system, is that it makes no allowance for European Champions. This is not, historically, such a big thing for men's distance events, but in some other events, especially pre 1990's, the European Champion in an event was often the best in the world. Of course now, it means little at all, if anything, but there was a time when, outside of the Olympics, the next biggest accomplishment was to win a European gold. Now the problem with this is that it obviously excludes Americans and other nations where they had a rich tradition at the time. Maybe Commonwealth and PanAm titles can be taken into consideration too, although generally they didn't have such in depth talent as the Europeans.
I hope I have outlined the criteria I would use in a relatively coherent format. Again, it's not perfect, and I appreciate it would take a little more analysis and research, but I believe it to be a fairer system to more athletes competing over a longer period.
Re: AW Greatest Distance Runners of All Time
Oh, one last thing!
I'm not sure why AW chose to start at 1500m when assessing the "Greatest distance runners"?
I don't consider 1500m to be a distance event, but a middle distance one. I would think that "distance" events start at 3000m and above!?
Alternatively, if you are going to include the 1500m, why not the 800m?
If I were to construct such an analysis, I would do one for "middle distances", ranging from 800m up to and including 2000m, and a separate one for "distance runners", ranging from 3000m to the Marathon.
If there is any overlap, e.g Aouita (1500 & 5000m), EL G, then there can be a separate third list where those that appear on both lists have their scores combined, to find an overall "greatest runner" top 20.
Re: AW Greatest Distance Runners of All Time
What about Roger Bannister!!!???
Re: AW Greatest Distance Runners of All Time
No Oxonians!
Middle distance out, KUTZ and Benoit in
Thank you AW for a decent topic during lull track season.
Excellent list. I agree with most people above 1500 - 3000 is middle distance.
I would like to suggest Vladimir Kuts in men list instead of El G but in 9th place.
Joan Benoit instead of Bragina but in 10th place.
Do you guys remember good old days when there was track races all the way through middle of October in Europe and Aisa?
Re: AW Greatest Distance Runners of All Time
i would scrap nurmi.
his best times are equivalent to a nearly 11 seconds 100m in the iaaf tables.
Re: AW Greatest Distance Runners of All Time
He won the 1500/5000 double within an hour at the 1924 Oly. Also, if I recall, he set WRs at these distances within the same time frame at the Oly Trials for Finland. These performances are/were extraordinary, and even today, only El G has taken the same Oly double.
Re: AW Greatest Distance Runners of All Time
To look back at an earler time and state that the times or distances are too "poor" to compare with modern giants is ill advised in the extreme; in 200 years time when, as a possibility, athletes may be running 42/42.5 for a 400m , it would be equally fatheaded to regard Johnsons WR as not good enough to be seriously regarded.
Nurmi's record is self evidently supreme by OG and WR standards, but much more relevant, imo, is that he was the first great athlete to take times to a new level and to test out the possibilities of the body's potential by dint of his enormous training regimes.
Re: AW Greatest Distance Runners of All Time
Yes, absolutely. This whole "greatest" exercise can ONLY start with an honest attempt to look at relative achievement: the quality of an individual in the context of his (her) own era. Nothing else makes any sense at all. If we're going to be absolutist about a 4:10 mile time, then we ALSO need to be absolutist about its DATE. You cannot separate one from the other and come up with any meaningful judgments.
Re: AW Greatest Distance Runners of All Time
For anyone that's interested, I spent a couple of hours working out the ranking points for most of the top 20 listed in the men's list printed in AW the other week, using a slightly different points system, that I outlined in previous posts.
There are a few changes. Most notably, the top 3 change positions, Viren drops quite a few places, while Morceli and Clarke, move up quite a bit. I'm fairly happy with the results, and think it is a fairer system, though no system is perfect, as it gives more credit for longevity, consistency and marks set and other distances (Mile, 2000m, 3000m & 2 miles), where some of the records/performances were every bit as impressive as times set in Olympic distances.
Anyway, as perhaps a source of further discussion, this is what I calculated.
1) Paavo Nurmi - 374 points
2) Haile Gebreselassie -316
3) Keninisa Bekele - 308
4) Hicham El Guerrouj - 218
5) Emil Zatopek - 217
6) Said Aouita - 200 (208 if you include 800m)
7) Ron Clarke - 171 (up from 17th!)
8=) Noureddine Morceli & Hannes Kolehmainen - 155
10) Vladimir Kuts - 154
11=) Henry Rono & Moses Kiptanui - 147
13=) Paul Tergat & Lasse Viren - 133
15) Kipchoge Keino - 126
I stopped at 15th! I was interested in using my points system on a few other athletes who weren't part of the original list. I got the following findings:-
Daniel Komen -94, Jim Ryun - 86, Bernard Lagat - 69
Two points of note. In the original AW list, they stated that they awarded "two points for each FULL season as record-holder". I took that to mean that the world record lasted 365 days! When going through the athletes on the list, this didn't appear to be the case. Well, it wasn't clear. Anyway, I awarded 2 points for any record that lasted a year, and those records that were set that didn't last a year didn't get a bonus 2)
I also wasn't quite sure why the original criteria for "distance" runners included 1500m but not 800m? Perhaps they plan a future list for middle distance.
I looked at a few of the stand-out middle distance runners from over the years, and using the same points system (mine not AW's), I got the following points for distances ranging from 800 to 2000m
Coe - 250
El G - 190
Snell - 151
Morceli - 140
Ovett - 117 (135 if you go from 800 up to 2 miles)
Cram - 87
Ryun - 86
Aouita - 73
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Joe the Plumber speaks out on Foreign Policy
Normally open July 4th only---the one day a year when partisan politics, religion, etc. are acceptable topics on this Board (within reason). The forum is now closed.
Joe the Plumber speaks out on Foreign Policy
Omigawd !!! Are there no limits as to his competencies? What an undiscovered gem --- he surpasses even SP as a multi-tasker, but perhaps his 15 minutes of fame is being stretched a bit?
By the way Joe (or Sam) is predicting the demise of Israel, if Obama happens to get elected. What will tomorrow bring?
Re: Joe the Plumber speaks out on Foreign Policy
Serious question, is this bad for the prophesies in Revelations? Maybe that is Joe's angle here? I had read one disputed argument that some evangelicals donate to jewish charities on the grounds that it might be good in that respect.
While this argument might not be taken seriously by intellectuals it does not mean that it is not out there as whispers.
I hear they found some scrolls in some cave near the Sea of Galilee last week, they are the long lost, passed-out-of-memory, little known book of the Bible that missed the deadline getting to the printer, the Book of Joe.
Re: Joe the Plumber speaks out on Foreign Policy
These idiots who want to hasten or be part of the process involved in hurrying the 2nd coming would do well to remember that Jesus said that not even he knew the time of his return, much less any other human. Only God "knows" it. Until then it's a cat in a box waiting to be opened, or some uncollapsed wave function analogue.
btw speaking of Schrodinger and felines, if some molecules from dead kitty reach an observer's nose outside the box, and also outside the room holding the box, does that constitute interference and hence observation of some "system" ? Why do we have to open the box to know what happened to the cat? [in a particularly special hypothetical case]
Maybe JRM or someone equally qualified could pm the answer to me, since it doesn't entirely fail to stray from topic of this thread.
Re: Joe the Plumber speaks out on Foreign Policy
Smells and sounds count as observation. Text messages too.
Re: Joe the Plumber speaks out on Foreign Policy
Correct. In the quantum mechanical sense, an "observation" is a measurement of (any) physical characteristic that defines the quantum system (e.g. position, momentum, angular momentum, spin, etc...). It isn't literally taken to mean "visually observe".
This, I suppose, was inevitable. Joe now has a manager:
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008 ... a-manager/
I totally agree. I'm a Demo centrist, so I am not unhappy about all this, but if McCain had used his own brain and instincts instead if kowtowing to the Righty Repub Morons, he would be 6 days away from being President-elect. Which probably shows that he's not cut out for the job anyway.
Absolutely. McCain is (or at least was) a far better candidate than the one he's been allowed (or forced) to become.
The Republicans truly, truly deserve to get kicked so hard that their ass cheeks come out their ears.
Generally I agree with you 100%. But nobody "forced" McCain to take any stance or position. Having waited (sometimes a little impatiently) for 8+ years, I guess he forgot what his true values were and just had to play to the gallery. If he loses in a week's time, as all "pundits" seem to be saying, he will have helped dig his own political grave.
Do you think he'll get a $150,000 wardrobe makeover? Nice manicure, pedicure, and leg waxing?
I don't know about that, but I do suspect that with good management, he may have the best chance of his life to find himself in the $250,000+ income bracket that would be taxed a bit more under Obama's plan than under McCain's. Of course, by then, he'd really be Joe the After Dinner Speaker.
Oh, the ignominy of handlers and spin-doctors and their ilk Consultants are paid BigBux to tell a candidate how focus groups think they should look, speak and act. Sadly. common sense would have been a much better guide for McCain. [same holds true for Obama, although he appears to be loathe to abandon his revival preacher slash civil rights activist posturing, even when the handlers tell him he's coming off too 60s-ish and elitist.]
As I was avoiding listening to a campaign ad on the radio ("I approve this message"), it struck me that in a perfect world, all campaign ads in the future would have to have the endorsement of BOTH candidates; that way they'd be forced to have actual issues content, clearly delineating their differences.
I was bending over backward to give McCain the potential benefit of the doubt. No one believes more strongly than I that he's run an absolutely idiotic and disgraceful campaign. Everything you say is completely correct.
Oh, yes. That's gonna happen real soon.
As soon as y'all come to your senses and make me the KOW (King of the World), it will. In my benign dictatorship, I will allow nations to elect their own leaders, who will, of course, report to me. I doubt, however, that I would countermand any nation's duly elected leader, because I'll be too busy fxing all that ails T&F!!
And just to give you a sample of my noble goals, once I am the KOW, all the major sports will have to webcast their competitions on one Bahamian web-site, 6 hours to one-week after the competition has ended, using 1994 web technology, while all track meets will be televised live on the major networks.
Re: Joe the Plumber speaks out on Foreign Policy
So if a bear farts in the forest and nobody's there to hear and/or smell it, does it make a sound and a smell? Are bears legitimate observers?
To give you an idea of JTP's level of self-delusion, he plans on running for Congress in '10. His opponent would be 13-term incumbent Marcy Kaptur, who has failed to break 70% only once in the last 11 elections. He might as well set his sights on beating Usain Bolt.
Will all of this be before or after you fly or become invisible?
For more on this see this:
http://mb.trackandfieldnews.com/discuss ... hp?t=33498
Re: Joe the Plumber speaks out on Foreign Policy
No doubt the carbon will find its way into the trees, and they will sense that, even if not able to thank the bear.
Joe the not-plumber and Joe Six-Pack types seem to get very upset about people who make less than them getting a handout and gaming the system.
However they don't seem to mind when people who make way more than them do it.
There is no other country in the world in which such a large percentage of the working class consistently do the bidding of the elite class as they do in the U.S.A. "Don't give me those take cuts, give them to the billionaires."
Off topic: sorry, trig, every time I see you post now I think of Palin.
I read in the newspaper this morning (and did not fact check) that McCain is leading in all 10 of the states nationwide with the lowest average incomes, by an average of 16 points over Obama. It boggles the mind . . .
??????????? Boy are you ever off the mark!
This explains part of it:
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/t ... wo-er.html
"Check out the state map on 538, showing the pattern of support for Obama and McCain. Now go look at the state map on the Civil War Association of the pattern of support for the Union and the Confederacy. Tells you something, don't you think?"
Is it possible that trickle down economics does work in those states? Alternatively, there are bigger issues at stake. I can think of quite a few reason why someone in poverty might vote against their financial interests. Consider the opportunity to push the supreme court over the top with regard to Roe vs Wade. Surely a chance in a life time for pro-choice voters? Actually, i am quite surprised that issue has not been mention on the campaign trail.
It's the name - trig - same as her kid, not the politics !!
I just spewed coffee out the nose! These states (LOWest income) are as far from trickle-down blessed as is possible.
I'm shocked, SHOCKED I tell you . . .
It's all relative. Imagine how low their incomes could have been.
But I admit it, I was being facetious.
Sorry, I misunderstood.
I had the name first, but only because people can't say Trigueiro. My maiden name was simpler.
I thought it was because you taught math, and calc or geo just doesn't have the same ring.
What's your angle, man? I must be a square...
I can see reasons why this is both puzzling and obvious.
One might expect such demographics would be eager to jump on Obama's socialist gravy train. And, of course, some are.
I do not know what those ten states are but I would guess Oklahoma, where I live, is one of them. Due my long and rather diverse history, I am in contact with people from all economic levels. My impression and surmise, confirmed by historical voting record, is that the majority in this "low income" state, in addition to being basically politically conservative, perceive Obama as an elitist, arrogant ,arugala-eater. Also, the school of hard knocks has conditioned them to not swallow untasted pie-in-the-sky promises. .
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This is my grandma (who is no longer alive), pregnant with my father, making this around 1960. I'm fascinated by the mural above the fireplace and the little figures on top, but perhaps someone might know what the black thing on the table is? And, of course, the big blue thing and television are awesome. Scanned from a Kodak safety negative.
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Parent Directory | Revision Log
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* swank-lispworks.lisp (lispworks-severity): Fix error when using the :explain declaration.
* swank-lispworks.lisp (find-top-frame): Improve backtraces from swank::safe-backtrace.
* swank-lispworks.lisp (frame-package): Implemented. (function-name-package): New.
* swank-backend.lisp (type-specifier-p): New. Implement it for ACL, ECL, CCL, Clisp, SBCL, LW. * contrib/swank-util.lisp (symbol-classification-string): Use type-specifier-p.
More long line fixes.
* swank-lispworks.lisp (swank-compile-string): Don't include the source-string in the dspec::*location*. As LW has the habbit to print the entire *location* on redefinition the source-string would causes troubles for the test case.
Use Unix-EOL convention even on Windows. * swank-allegro.lisp (string-to-utf8, utf8-to-string): Use excl:crlf-base-ef. * swank-lispworks.lisp (string-to-utf8, utf8-to-string): Use '(:utf-8 :eol-style :lf)
swank-lispworks.lisp (dspec-file-position): Fall back to regexp search if dspec-stream-position gets an error.
Add a "sentinel thread" to protect access to global lists. * swank.lisp (start-sentinel, sentinel, send-to-sentinel) (sentinel-serve, sentinel-stop-server, sentinel-maybe-exit): New. (make-connection, close-connection, setup-server, stop-server): Use the sentinel. (close-connection%): Factored out. * swank-backend.lisp (register-thread, find-registered): New. * swank-allegro.lisp: Implement it. * swank-ccl.lisp: * swank-lispworks.lisp: * swank-sbcl.lisp:
* swank.lisp (create-server): Add a :backlog argument. (setup-server): Pass it along. * swank-backend.lisp (create-socket): Backlog argument. * swank-abcl.lisp: Implement it. * swank-allegro.lisp: * swank-ccl.lisp: * swank-clisp.lisp: * swank-cmucl.lisp: * swank-corman.lisp: * swank-ecl.lisp: * swank-lispworks.lisp: * swank-sbcl.lisp: * swank-scl.lisp:
Add portable versions for string-to-utf8 and utf8-to-string. * swank-backend.lisp (default-string-to-utf8) (default-utf8-to-string): New. (string-to-utf8, utf8-to-string): Use default implementations. * swank-lispworks.lisp (make-flexi-stream): Restored. (utf8-stream): Deleted. The utf8 stuff is now used for the default implementation of utf8-to-string and would cause name clashes.
* swank-abcl.lisp (accept-connection): Make it so. * swank-clisp.lisp (accept-connection): Make it so. * swank-cmucl.lisp (accept-connection): Make it so. * swank-lispworks.lisp (accept-connection): Make it so. * swank-sbcl.lisp (accept-connection): Make it so. * swank-scl.lisp (accept-connection): Make it so.
* swank-lispworks.lisp (string-to-utf8, string-to-utf8): Implemented.
Remove dependecy on FLEXI-STREAMS for Lispworks. * swank-lispworks.lisp (make-flexi-stream): Deleted. (utf8-stream): New class to do the transcoding. (accept-connection): Use it.
(frame-actual-args): Reimplement to include only the values like on other platforms and deal with, optional key and rest args. (print-frame): Format the frame as a call like in other backends.
Improve source locations for compiler messages in Lispworks. * swank-lispworks.lisp (map-error-database) (signal-error-data-base, make-dspec-progenitor-location): Pass the edit-path along. (signal-undefined-functions): No edit-path available so just use nil.
Improve frame-source-location for Lispworks. * swank-lispworks.lisp (frame-source-location): Exctract the edit-path from the frame and pass it to Emacs. (edit-path-to-cmucl-source-path): New function. (frame-location): Use it. * slime.el (slime-location-offset): Add a :edit-path property. (slime-search-edit-path): New function. (slime-search-call-site): Fix regexp to match zero arg functions.
* swank-lispworks.lisp (list-callers-internal): Revert to previous low level implementation, fixed for LW6. (list-callees-internal): Reimplement using low level instead of the compiler's xref.
* swank-lispworks.lisp (list-callers-internal): Fix for LW6. (list-callees-internal): New function, use it.
* slime.el (slime-compile-and-load-file): Accept C-u arguments for compilation policy the same way as slime-compile-defun. * swank.lisp (compile-file-for-emacs): Take an additional policy argument. * swank-backend.lisp (swank-compile-file): Ditto. * swank-sbcl.lisp (compiler-policy, (setf compiler-policy)): rename from get/set-compiler-policy. (with-compiler-policy): New macro. (swank-compile-file): Use with-compiler-policy. (swank-compile-string): Ditto.
* swank.lisp (without-interrupts): Removed. No longer used. * swank-backend.lisp (call-without-interrupts): Removed. Update backends accoringly.
* swank-lispworks.lisp (call-without-interrupts): Discourage use. (interesting-frame-p): Never show open frame bogons.
swank-lispworks.lisp (replace-strings-with-symbols): Didn't work on non-proper lists. Reported by Madhu.
* swank-lispworks.lisp (replace-strings-with-symbols): New function for recursively interning and replacing strings in a list. (arglist): Replace all strings in arglists with symbols. * contrib/swank-arglists.lisp (decode-required-arg): Move LispWorks specific code into swank-lispworks.lisp.
* swank-lispworks.lisp (thread-attributes): Implemented.
* swank-backend.lisp (frame-source-location): Renamed from frame-source-location-for-emacs. Update callers accordingly.
swank-lispworks.lisp: wrapper functions for swank-mop slot-boundp-using-class, slot-value-using-class and slot-makunbound-using-class to account for MOP differences.
* swank-backend.lisp (swank-compile-file): Take output-file as additional argument. Update backends accordingly. * swank.lisp (*fasl-directory*): New variable. (fasl-pathname): New function. (compile-file-for-emacs): Use it.
* swank-backend.lisp (set-default-initial-binding): New function. * swank.lisp (setup-stream-indirection): Use it
* swank-backend.lisp (swank-compile-string): Pass the buffer-file-name to Lisp, not only the directory. Update callers accordingly
* slime.el ([test] find-definition.2): Also fails for Lispworks. ([test] interrupt-at-toplevel, [test] interrupt-in-debugger): Those don't work well if there's no REPL thread. * swank-backend.lisp (wait-for-input, wait-for-one-stream): Don't use PEEK-CHAR because we can't interrupt that cleanly. * swank.lisp (simple-serve-requests): Run the REPL inside WITH-CONNECTION. * swank-lispworks.lisp (emacs-connected): Don't install the signal handler here ... (install-sigint-handler): ... use this instead
As of now, `C-u C-c C-c' compiled a function with maximum debug settings (SBCL only.) Now, `M-- C-c C-c' will compile a function with maximum _speed_ settings (still SBCL only) --- useful to elicit compiler notes. * slime.el (slime-compilation-debug-level): Renamed to `slime-compilation-policy'. (slime-normalize-optimization-level): Renamed to `slime-compute-policy'. * swank.lisp (compile-string-for-emacs): Takes a policy now. (compile-multiple-strings-for-emacs): Ditto. * swank-backend.lisp (swank-compile-string): Change :DEBUG key arg to :POLICY. * swank-scl.lisp, swank-openmcl.lisp, swank-lispworks.lisp * swank-ecl.lisp, swank-corman.lisp, swank-cmucl.lisp, * swank-clisp.lisp, swank-allegro.lisp, swank-sbcl.lisp: Changed accordingly.
* swank-lispworks.lisp (describe-function): Don't use string-upcase on lambda-list-argruments, because not all elements must be symbols.
* swank.lisp (frame-locals-and-catch-tags): New function. Fetch locals and catch tags with a single RPC. * slime.el (sldb-frame-details): Use it. * swank-backend.lisp (frame-catch-tags): Provide a default implementation. Delete the dummy defs in various backends.
* swank-backend.lisp (frame-restartable-p): New function. (swank-frame): Deleted. Update implemenetations accordingly. (print-frame): Renamed back from print-swank-frame. * swank.lisp (backtrace): Don't clutter the backtrace with '(:restartable :unknown). For practical purposes :unknown is the same as nil. * slime.el (sldb-compute-frame-face): Only accept nil or t for the :restartable prop.
* swank-lispworks.lisp (with-swank-compilation-unit): Return the values of BODY. (compile-from-temp-file): Return T on success. * swank.lisp (collect-notes): Check return type of FUNCTION.
* swank-backend.lisp (swank-compile-file): Return the same values as COMPILE-FILE. Update backends accordingly.
UTF-8 support for Lispworks. * swank-lispworks.lisp (accept-connection): Use flexi-streams for utf-8. (make-flexi-stream): New function. (*temp-file-format*): New variable (compile-from-temp-file): Use it.
Adjust positions in files with CRLF-style end-on-line markers. * slime.el (slime-eol-conversion-fixup): New function. (slime-goto-location-position): Use it. Also add a new position type :offset, so that we don't adjust offsets in strings that were sent over the wire (which uses LF eol-convention). * swank-abcl.lisp * swank-allegro.lisp * swank-clisp.lisp * swank-cmucl.lisp * swank-corman.lisp * swank-ecl.lisp * swank-lispworks.lisp * swank-openmcl.lisp * swank-sbcl.lisp * swank-scl.lisp: Create :offset style positions where needed. * swank-lispworks.lisp (skip-comments): New function. (dspec-stream-position): Use it.
* swank-lispworks.lisp (describe-symbol-for-emacs): Revert last change.
For Lispworks, parse the $LWHOME/lwdoc file. * swank-lispworks.lisp (lwdoc, lookup-lwdoc, parse-lwdoc-record): New functions. (describe-symbol-for-emacs): Use it.
New faces: `sldb-restartable-frame-line-face', `sldb-non-restartable-frame-line-face'. The former is the face for frames that are surely restartable, the latter for frames that are surely not restartable. If restartability of a frame cannot be reliably determined, the face `sldb-frame-line-face' is used. At the moment, determination of frame restartability is supported by the SBCL backend only. * slime.el (sldb-frame.string): New. (sldb-frame.number): New. (sldb-frame.plist): New. (sldb-prune-initial-frames): Use them. (sldb-insert-frames): Ditto. (sldb-compute-frame-face): New. (sldb-insert-frame): Use `sldb-compute-frame-face' to insert frames with one of the faces described above. * swank.lisp (defslimefun backtrace): Changed return value; each frame is now accompanied with a PLIST which at the moment can contain :RESTARTABLE NIL/T/:UNKNOWN depending on whether the frame is restartable, or not. * swank-backend.lisp (defstruct swank-frame): New structure. (compute-backtrace): Is now supposed to return a list of SWANK-FRAMEs. (print-frame): Renamed to PRINT-SWANK-FRAME. * swank-sbcl.lisp, swank-cmucl.lisp, swank-lispworks.lisp, * swank-allegro.lisp, swank-scl.lisp, swank-openmcl.lisp, * swank-abcl.lisp, swank-clisp.lisp: Adapted to swank-backend changes.
*** empty log message ***
* swank.lisp (wait-for-event): Add timeout argument. This is used for :fd-handler and :sigio style where we only process events as long we don't block. (wait-for-event/event-loop, read-event) (decode-message, receive-if): Ditto. (process-events): Renamed from read-from-emacs. (handle-requests): Renamed from handle-request. Take timeout argument. Update callers. (process-available-input): Deleted.
* swank-lispworks.lisp (defimplementation): Record location.
Display the "Use default debugger" restart more prominently. * swank.lisp (swank-debugger-hook): Bind a user visible restart to invoke the native debugger. (*global-debugger*): Make this nil by default. (sldb-loop): Minor cleanups. (sldb-break-with-default-debugger): Invoke the native debugger on top of the slime debugger. * slime.el (sldb-setup): Always pop to the debugger buffer. (sldb-activate): Optionally select the window. * swank-sbcl.lisp (sb-thread::get-foreground): Override this as the default implementation is unusable for Slime. * swank-lispworks.lisp (environment-display-notifier): Just return t.
* swank-lispworks.lisp (disassemble-frame): Implemented.
Spawn the auto-flush thread in the front end. This removes some copy&paste code in various backends. * swank.lisp (auto-flush-loop): New function. (open-streams): Use it. * swank-backend.lisp (make-stream-interactive): Deleted.
* swank-allegro.lisp:(receive-if): Periodically check for interrupts. * swank-cmucl.lisp, swank-scl.lisp: ditto.
Queue interrupts in various places. * swank-backend.lisp (*pending-slime-interrupts*): New variable. (check-slime-interrupts): New function. * swank-lispworks.lisp (receive-if): Use it. * swank-sbcl.lisp, swank-openmcl.lisp: Ditto. * swank.lisp (*slime-interrupts-enabled*): New variable. (with-slime-interrupts, without-slime-interrupts): New macros. (invoke-or-queue-interrupt): New function. (interrupt-worker-thread, eval-for-emacs, swank-debugger-hook) (debug-nth-thread, wait-for-event, read-from-emacs): Use them.
* swank-lispworks.lisp (make-stream-interactive): Run our own thread to periodically flush streams instead of relying on soft-force-output.
* swank-gray.lisp (slime-output-stream): Undo last change. Make force-output and finish-output do the same.
* swank-gray.lisp (slime-output-stream): Add a slot "interactive-p" which should be true for streams which are flushed periodically by the Lisp system. Update the relevant accordingly.
* swank-lispworks.lisp (receive-if): Handle interrupts.
Add some flow-control. * swank.lisp (make-output-function): Synchronize with Emacs on every 100th chunk of output. (wait-for-event,wait-for-event/event-loop,event-match-p): New functions. Used to selectively wait for some events and to queue the other events. (dispatch-event, read-from-socket-io): Tag non-queueable events with :call. (read-from-control-thread, read-from-emacs): Process :call events only; enqueue the others. (*log-output*): Don't use synonym-streams here. Dereference the symbol until we get at the real stream. (log-event): Escape non-ascii characters more carefully. * swank-backend.lisp (receive-if): New function. Update backends accordingly. (not yet for ABCL and SCL) * slime.el (slime-dispatch-event): Handle ping event.
(install-debugger-globally): hook into the environment globally to catch BREAK.
C-c C-c with prefix args now uses the maximal debug level. (By Zach Beane.) Only implemented for SBCL. * slime.el (slime-compile-with-maximum-debug): New variable. (slime-compile-defun, slime-compile-region): Use it. * swank.lisp (compile-string-for-emacs): Accept new debug argument. Update backend accordingly.
(map-error-database): Make mapping work for LispWorks 5.1 too.
Remove remaining traces of make-default-inspector. * swank-scl.lisp (make-default-inspector, scl-inspector): Deleted. * swank-lispworks.lisp (make-default-inspector) (lispworks-inspector): Deleted.
Drop the first return value of emacs-inspect. * swank.lisp (emacs-inspect): Drop the first return value. It wasn't used anymore. Update all methods and callers.
Inspector cleanups. * swank.lisp (emacs-inspect): Renamed from inspect-for-emacs. Changed all method-defs acordingly. (common-seperated-spec, inspector-princ): Moved to swank-fancy-inspector.lisp. (inspector-content): Renamed from inspector-content-for-emacs. (value-part): Renamed from value-part-for-emacs. (action-part): Renamed from action-part-for-emacs. (inspect-list): Renamed from inspect-for-emacs-list. (inspect-list-aux): New. (inspect-cons): Renamed from inspect-for-emacs-simple-cons. (*inspect-length*): Deleted. (inspect-list): Ignore max-length stuff. (inspector-content): Don't allow nil elements. (emacs-inspect array): Make the label of element type more consistent with the others.
Drop second argument from inspect-for-emacs
Drop remaining dependencies on nregex. * swank-lispworks.lisp (unmangle-unfun): Use sys::setf-symbol-p instead of regexp matching. * swank-loader.lisp (*sysdep-files*): Don't include nregex.
Introduce backend-inspector class. * swank-backend.lisp (backend-inspector): New class. Introduce a named class to give as another way to dispatch to backend methods. * swank-cmucl.lisp: Use backend-inspector class. * swank-sbcl.lisp: Use backend-inspector class. * swank-clisp.lisp: Use backend-inspector class. * swank-lispworks.lisp: Use backend-inspector class. * swank-allegro.lisp: Use backend-inspector class. * swank-openmcl.lisp: Use backend-inspector class. * swank-abcl.lisp: Use backend-inspector class. * swank-corman.lisp: Use backend-inspector class. * swank-scl.lisp: Use backend-inspector class.
(lispworks-inspect): Fix hanging caused by mapcan, i.e. nconc, on a constant list returned by label-value-line.
(dspec-file-position): Bind *compile-file-pathname*, *compile-file-truename*, *load-pathname* and *load-truename* in dspec-file-position.
weak hash tables for LispWorks
(find-external-format, guess-external-format): New. (swank-compile-file): The external-format argument is now a backend specific value returned by find-external-format. Update implementations accordingly.
(initialize-multiprocessing): Don't init MP if it is already running.
(initialize-multiprocessing): Update for new API.
swank-backend.lisp (definterface): Drop that incredibly unportable CLOS stuff. Use plists and plain functions instead. Update backends accordingly.
(inspect-for-emacs): Don't use defimplementation here.
* Improve the robustness of connection establishment.
(inspect-for-emacs): Use the backend specific method to inspect standard-objects because {slot-boundp,slot-value}-using-class don't conform to the MOP spec in LW and ACL.
(accept-connection): New argument: buffering.
(startup-multiprocessing): Deleted. (initialize-multiprocessing, startup-idle-and-top-level-loops): The replacements for startup-multiprocessing. startup-idle-and-top-level-loops is only needed for CMUCL, but initialize-multiprocessing is useful for other too.
Use *gray-stream-symbols* instead of enumerating them in each backend.
Import `stream-finish-output'.
(env-internals:confirm-p): Fix last change (hopefully).
(env-internals:confirm-p): Use new function y-or-n-p-in-emacs rather than eval-in-emacs.
(defadvice compile-file): Return all values from the real compile-file.
(swank-compile-file): New optional argument `external-format'.
Fix LW port (broken due to nregex renaming)
correction: swank.lisp is loaded after swank-lispworks.lisp...
beautify undefined function warnings in LW
call-with-compilation-hooks: better implementation for LW
(find-top-frame): If we can't find an invoke-debugger frame we take any old frame at the top.
(swank-compile-string): Bind *print-radix* to t, to avoid problems if somebody uses different values for *print-base* and *read-base*. Reported by Alain Picard. (emacs-connected): Add default methods for environment-display-notifier and environment-display-debugger.
(toggle-trace): Update tracing code for new interface.
(slime-env): New class. (call-with-debugger-hook): Use env:with-environment to pop up our debugger on a BREAK. (toggle-trace-method, parse-fspec, tracedp, toggle-trace): Implement method tracing.
(swank-mop:compute-applicable-methods-using-classes): Implement it.
(create-socket): Work around bug in comm::create-tcp-socket-for-service on Mac OS LW 4.3.
(list-callers-internal): Return the function if dspec:object-dspec returns nil. (xref-results): Previously, functions for which dspec:dspec-definition-locations returned nil were ignored. Include them with a unknown source-location. (accept-connection): Add default for external-format.
(emacs-connected): Set sigint handler only for single threaded operation. I.e. when *communication-style* is nil.
(accept-connection): Accept :external-format as argument.
(emacs-connected, make-stream-interactive): Move the soft-force-output stuff to make-stream-interactive. (frame-source-location-for-emacs): Pass the function name of the next (newer) frame as a hint to Emacs. This way we can highlight the call site in some cases, instead of the entire defun. (frame-location): Renamed from function-name-location. The argument is now a dspec, not only a name. Also include hints for Emacs. (lispworks-inspect): Simplified from old code. (inspect-for-emacs): Use it for also for simple functions.
(swank-mop): Export specializer-direct-methods. (eql-specializer): Implement. (eql-specializer-object): Implement.
2004-09-14 Marco Baringer <email@example.com> * swank-backend.lisp (inspector, make-default-inspector): Add an INSPECTOR object argument to the inspector protocol. This allows implementations to provide more information regarding cretain objects which can't be, or simply aren't, inspected using the generic inspector implementation. also export inspect-for-emacs and related symbols from the backend package. (make-default-inspector): New function. * swank.lisp (inspected-parts): Rename to inspect-for-emacs and add an inspector argument. Move inspect-for-emacs to swank-backend.lisp, leave only the default implementations. * swank-openml.lisp, swank-sbcl.lisp, swank-allegro.lisp, swank-cmucl.lisp, swank-lispworks.lisp (inspected-parts): Rename and change argument list. Many of the inspected-parts methods were being clobbered by the inspected-parts in swank.lisp, now that they're being used the return values have been updated for the new inspect-for-emacs API.
Set up the swank-mop package. Implement swank-mop:slot-definition-documentation and function-name.
Implement call-with-compilation-hooks.
(defimplementation): define-dspec-alias seems to more apropriate than define-form-parser.
Adding directory argument to swank-compile-string.
(frame-actual-args): Correct syntax for handler-case.
Minor refactoring.
Fix typo in features for LW 4.1 and 4.2.
(frame-actual-args): Bind *break-on-signals* to nil and special case &rest, &optional, and &key.
(describe-symbol-for-emacs): Include information about setf-functions stuff. (emacs-connected): Add a default method to defenv-internals:environment-display-debugger.
(thread-id, find-thread): New backend function.
(frame-var-value): New backend function.
(quit-lisp): Implemented.
(with-fairly-standard-io-syntax): New macro. Like with-standard-io-syntax, but keeps the existing values of *package* and *readtable*. (dspec-stream-position): Use it.
(dspec-stream-position): Remove `with-standard-io-syntax' so that we can read files with custom read syntax. Bind *READ-EVAL* to T instead of NIL (at the suggestion of Alain Picard).
(emacs-connected): Pass the redirected stream as argument, so that the OpenMCL backend can add it to CCL::*AUTO-FLUSH-STREAMS*.
(dspec-stream-position): New function to make source location work for anything complicated e.g. methods. (with-swank-compilation-unit): Refactoring. (who-macroexpands): Implemented. (list-callers): Implemented.
(find-top-frame): New function used to hide debugger internal frames. (call-with-debugging-environment): Use it.
(emacs-connected): Add methods to stream-soft-force-output for socket-streams and slime-output-streams.
(arglist): Return :not-available if the arglist cannot be determined.
(spawn): Remove CL symbols from mp:*process-initial-bindings*, to avoid the irritating behavior, e.g., when someone tries to set *package*.
(create-socket, set-sigint-handler, who-references, who-binds) (who-sets): Add backward compatibility for LW 4.1. (dspec-buffer-position): Fix a bug involving inappropriate use of etypecase.
(emacs-connected): Add default method to environment-display-notifier. We just display invoke our debugger. (set-default-directory, who-specializes): Implemented for Lispworks. (gfp): New function. (describe-symbol-for-emacs, describe-definition): Distinguish between ordinary and generic functions. (call-with-debugging-environment): Unwind a few frames. Looks better and avoids the problems with the real topframe. (interesting-frame-p): Use Lispworks dbg:*print-xxx* variables to decide which frames are interesting. (frame-actual-args): New function. (print-frame): Use it.
(swank-compile-string): Be friendly to case-inverting readtables.
more tweaking.
(find-definitions): Some tweaking.
Remove stupid conflicts.
Minor modifications.
Merge package-split branch into main trunk.
Implement changed backend interface and remove references to front end symbols.
(getpid, emacs-connected): Conditionalize for Windows. Patch from Bill Clementson.
See ChangeLog entry 2004-03-05 Marco Baringer
(thread-alive-p): Add default implementation. (describe-primitive-type): Add default implementation. (inspected-parts): Implemented for Allegro and CLISP.
(call-with-debugging-environment): Bind *sldb-top-frame*. (nth-frame): Use *sldb-top-frame*. (name-source-location, name-source-locations): Renamed from dspec-source-location, dspec-source-locations. The result now includes methods for generic functions. (eval-in-frame, return-from-frame, restart-frame): Implemented. (compile-string-for-emacs): Set dspec::*location* to the buffer location. (signal-undefined-functions, signal-error-data-base) (make-dspec-location): Remove temp-file kludges. (patch-source-locations, replace-source-file): Deleted.
(dspec-buffer-position): Handle defgeneric. (replace-source-file, patch-source-locations): New function. (compile-string-for-emacs): Patch the recorded source locations. (make-dspec-location): Handle (patched) emacs-buffer locations. (emacs-buffer-location-p): New function. (describe-primitive-type, inspected-parts): Implemented. (kill-thread): Implemented.
(dspec-buffer-position): Renamed from dspec-buffer-buffer-position. Handle dspecs of the form (defmacro foo). (arglist-string): Handle unknown arglists properly.
* slime.el: Various bits of support for maintaining multiple SLIME connections to different Lisp implementations simultaneously. * swank-{backend,cmucl,sbcl,clisp,lispworks,openmcl}.lisp (lisp-implementation-type-name): Add function to return simple name of lisp implementation; used by new multi-connection functionality in slime.el.
(create-socket): Take interface as argument.
Update for modified thread interface.
Merge stateless-emacs branch into main trunk.
*** empty log message ***
(interesting-frame-p): Don't print catch frames.
(make-sigint-handler): New function. (emacs-connected): Use it.
Updated to use `defimplementation'.
(sigint-handler): Bind a continue restart. (make-dspec-location): Handle stings like pathnames. Some multithreading support.
(arglist-string): Refactor common code to swank.lisp. (call-without-interrupts, getpid): Are now generic functions.
(create-socket): Fix condition message.
(create-socket, local-port, close-socket, accept-connection) (add-input-handler, spawn): Implement new socket interface.
Updated for new network interface. (accept-socket/stream): This function is currently broken, so LispWorks can't use the dedicated output channel at the moment.
Partially updated for new backend interface, but not actually working. The sockets code is broken, I haven't grokked LispWorks the interface properly.
(format-condition-for-emacs): Replaced with debugger-condition-for-emacs. (backtrace): Use print-with-frame-label. (frame-locals): Rename the :symbol property to :name.
(tracedp, toggle-trace-fdefinition): Moved to swank.lisp.
(create-swank-server): Accept an announce-function keyword argument.
(function-source-locations): Is replaces function-source-location-for-emacs. Make it at generic function. (function-source-location-for-emacs): Remove.
(toggle-trace-fdefinition, tracedp): New support functions for toggle-trace command. Written by Alain Picard. (compile-from-temp-file): Don't delete the binary file if there is none. (lispworks-severity): Map all ERRORs to :error.
(invoke-nth-restart): Use invoke-restart-interactively.
Use the new format for source locations. Implement the find-function-locations. (list-callers, list-callers): New functions.
Xref support. (make-dspec-location): Updated for the new source-location format.
(make-dspec-location): Handle logical pathnames.
First version.
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Gobel Standard Nonstick Round Tart Pan
- Summary
French pastry chefs rely on classic fluted pans like this one to create attractive tarts with tender golden crusts. The nonstick finish releases pastry intact.
- Heavy-gauge tinned steel promotes uniform baking.
- Removable bottom supports the baked crust while you slip off the pan's outer ring.
- Pan bottom also aids in transferring the tart to a plate or cake stand.
- Nonstick exterior finish simplifies cleanup.
- Pan is equally suited to preparing savory quiches.
- Made in France by a company that has produced quality bakeware since 1887.
- Dimensions & More Info
- 10 1/4" pan: 10 1/4" diam., 1" high.
- 11" pan: 11" diam., 1" high.
- Made in France.
- Use & Care
- Oven safe to 425°F.
- Use only wood, nylon, silicone or other nonmetallic utensils to avoid scratching the surface.
- Hand-wash in warm, soapy water. Dry thoroughly before storing.
- Do not soak.
- Do not use abrasive cleaners such as metal scouring pads, as they can damage the surface.
- Shipping
Shipping Information
This item is shipped from our warehouse by UPS to arrive within five business days of our receiving your order.
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Women's Walking - Komen 665
The Komen-edition New Balance 665, in lightweight and breathable mesh, offers all-day comfort with athletic flair to the fitness walker in addition to students or others on their feet for hours. The Walking Strike Path® technology combines with the full ground contact sole unit specifically to encourage a healthy walking gait.
227 grams (8.0 oz)
This shape is fairly standard across the board, but does offer a wider toe box to respond to natural foot movement during walking.
View shoes with the last PW-1  |  Learn more about Shoe Lasts
*Due to variances created during the development and manufacturing processes, all references to drop and stack height are approximate.


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Diabetes HealthSense
Resources for living well
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This website provides checklists, daily tips to manage diabetes, videos, and stories from others dealing with diabetes.
American Association of Clinical Endocrinologists (AACE) and American College of Endocrinology (ACE)
The ICIC Resource Library offers resources and teaching tools designed for leading and managing efforts to improve health systems to benefit the chronically ill.
Improving Chronic Illness Care
This resource provides health care professionals with a set of tested resources and tools to share with patients and families in the day-to-day management of chronic conditions.
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Baking Gift Set
- Summary
Indulge their sweet tooth with our baker's gift set, which pairs our easy-to-prepare Triple Citrus Ginger Organic Quick Bread Mix with premium items they'll enjoy for years to come. Our professional-quality nonstick loaf pan is ideal for preparing sweet and savory recipes, and our mini silicone spatula and signature towel are practical essentials to use every day.
- Our exclusive Triple Citrus Ginger Organic Quick Bread Mix, a premium all-natural mix that makes moist, buttery bread or muffins in gourmet flavors with aromatic citrus essence and the sweet tang of ginger—just blend in butter, eggs and water or milk.
- Our signature Goldtouch® Nonstick 1-lb. Loaf Pan, a commercial-grade pan made from aluminized-steel with a ceramic-reinforced nonstick coating for easy release and cleanup.
- A clear Mini Silicone Spatula designed for maneuvering in tight spaces, with a rounded maple handle and a narrow head molded from flexible clear silicone that won't chip or crack, and withstands heat up to 800°F.
- Our Contrast Stripe basketweave kitchen towel, made of absorbent Turkish cotton in vibrant paprika woven stripes.
- All products in set are tucked in a bed of excelsior, packed into an elegant wooden gift crate and tied with a green ribbon.
- Made in USA.
- A Williams-Sonoma exclusive.
- Dimensions & More Info
- Loaf Pan: 8 1/2" x 4 1/2" x 2 3/4" high. Dishwasher safe; however, we recommend hand-washing. Made in USA.
- Mini Spatula: 7 1/2" long. Removable head is dishwasher safe. Hand-wash handle. Made in USA.
- Towel: 30" x 20". Machine-wash. Made in Turkey.
- Shipping
Shipping Information
This item is shipped from our warehouse by UPS to arrive within five business days of our receiving your order.
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For an additional charge of $15 per address, we can rush delivery to most destinations. This service is not available for some oversize items, items shipped directly from the supplier (including perishable and custom-manufactured items), out-of-stock items and items to be shipped outside the contiguous 48 states.
Return Policy
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SKU:037.227 | Chocolate Brown LEATHER
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The purse is the go-to accessory for every woman, but sometimes it just can't fit all what we need to carry. Our Vertical Tote is a perfect alternative, giving you the space of a traditional tote with the beautiful look and long lasting life of quality leather.Loaded with space for all those essentials you need every day, this tote is made with all leather throughout. Besides the spacious main compartment, we also include 2 interior pockets for items like smartphones, pens, or makeup, and a zippered pocket for a wallet, ID, or other small accessories. Whether you're a student who needs to carry books and a laptop or a professional who needs to have their tablet and important documents, our Vertical Tote has the space to hold it. Say hello to your new favorite accessory!
Casual yet distinctive, our Timeless collection is one of our favorites. This leather boasts a polished finish and a soft hand feel, making it a great choice for any leather connoisseur. And with the variety of colors it comes in, it's easy to find a shade that appeals to you or matches with your other accessories. As the name implies, our Timeless collection will hold up through years of use while aging gracefully every step of the way.
Please note: textures in this collection range from light grain to a lightly pebbled grain depending on which part of the hide it's from.
This tote is great. The leather is very soft, and the navy color is beautifuly. It arrived nicely packaged in a dust bag and gift box. Perfect ""thank-you"" gift.
My new cobalt blue tote is beautiful and functional. I get compliments every time I use it.
My daughter loved it. A great Christmas present.
I bought this tote as a gift for my 23 year old granddaughter,and she was delighted. (She left for London the next day and yes, she was carrying it!
The color is exactly as pictured, the quality is excellent, the bag held everything she wanted to carry, all in the right places. It was an excellent purchase. (Just wish I had one too!!)
Whether you are treating yourself or giving a gift to someone else, we want you to have an amazing and memorable experience. All items will be shipped using our signature gift packaging. Depending on the type and size, your item(s) will come wrapped in our signature microsuede sleeve, drawstring bag or soft velour bag (each with black tie accents), and be packaged inside a high-density bronze gift box. You will also have the opportunity to add a personalized gift note when you place your order.
All of this extra attention to detail is complimentary.


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Southwestern Surgery Associates is located in Tucson, Arizona. Our surgeons have a long history of providing the best-specialized surgical care in Southern Arizona. All of our Surgeons come from 1st rate training programs, exceeding credentialing criteria, and most have over 10 years of practical surgical experience. In addition to performing general surgery, individual surgeons sub-specialize in area of expertise such as colorectal, thyroid, lung laparoscopic surgery, and cancer. When you come to Southwestern Surgery you benefit from the deep experience and combined talents of a group that has been in continuous practice for more than 40 years. Good luck and thanks for visiting.
Thomas V. Harmon, MD, FACS
We strive to advance the art and science of medicine, adhering to the
principles of conscientious caring for our customers, cost awareness, and
effective communication while fulfilling our responsibilities to the community we serve.
You can now pay online by using the "PAY ONLINE" link located at the top of this page.
Our New Patient Forms are available for printing from this website.Click here for forms
We are proud to welcome Dr. Cybill Corning to the Southwestern Surgery family, our new Colorectal specialist.
Dr. Artz, Dr. Balserak, Dr. Favre, Dr. Harmon, and Dr. Schluender have been recognized by the highly regarded Best Doctors in America® List.
1951 N. Wilmot, Bldg 2
Tucson, Arizona 85712
Main Office Hours:
M-F, 8:30am - 5:00pm
(520) 795-5845
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Sierra Vista
Dr. Douglas Lowell
2530 Wilcox Dr
Sierra Vista, AZ 85635
Satellite clinic by appointment
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Rita Ranch
Dr. Kelly Favre
8290 S. Houghton Rd.
Tucson, AZ 85747
Satellite clinic by appointment
Northwest Tucson
Dr. Katie Artz, Dr. Cybil Corning and Dr. Stefanie Schluender
7390 N. La Cholla Blvd
Tucson, AZ 85741
Satellite clinic by appointment only


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Glenboro, Manitoba Movie Theaters
Heaven Is for Real
Genre: Drama,
Rating: (PG)
Greg Kinnear
Kelly Reilly
Connor Corum
Other Woman
Genre: Comedy,
Rating: (PG-13)
Cameron Diaz
Leslie Mann
Kate Upton
Nikolaj Coster-Waldau
Nicki Minaj
Genre: SciFi/Fantasy, Suspense/Thriller
Rating: (PG-13)
Johnny Depp
Morgan Freeman
Kate Mara
Rebecca Hall
Cillian Murphy
Genre: Drama,
Rating: (R)
Karen Gillan
Brenton Thwaites
Rory Cochrane
Katee Sackhoff
Genre: Action/Adventure,
Rating: (PG-13)
Shailene Woodley
Theo James
Kate Winslet
Jai Courtney
Zoë Kravitz
Draft Day
Genre: Drama,
Rating: (PG-13)
Kevin Costner
Jennifer Garner
Tom Welling
Sam Elliott
Terry Crews
Captain America: The Wint...
Genre: Action/Adventure,
Rating: (PG-13)
Chris Evans
Scarlett Johansson
Sebastian Stan
Anthony Mackie
Cobie Smulders
Quiet Ones
Genre: Horror,
Rating: (PG-13)
Jared Harris
Sam Claflin
Erin Richards
Rory Fleck-Byrne
Olivia Cooke
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Movie Theaters in Glenboro
508 Railway Avenue Glenboro, MB - map
Movie Reviews
I loved this movie! I laughed and I cried! I think the boy who protrade Colton should get an oscar award! First time ever in my life that I went to...(read more)
I really want to take my stepdaughters to go see this movie and I really want to go see it I love animated movies this is going to be a great family m...(read more)
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. That about sums up my review. When I asked my kids if they liked it, they blandly said, "Yeah." However, they didn't ...(read more)
Very deep. Very well done. Sometimes Christian movies are done with subpar talent and subpar quality. Not this film. Very well done. If you are a ...(read more)
My son and I enjoyed Rio 2, we loved the color and the excitement of Rio and tropical places like the Amazon. We just suffered through a very rough wi...(read more)
I enjoyed Son of God very much. I previously viewed Passion of the Christ with my church group and thought it was similar. I liked when things happene...(read more)
I went to see this film with my mother who is visiting me from out of town and we both absolutely loved it. I love films where characters take a journ...(read more)


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Includes veterans' benefits, starting and running a business, unemployment, County job openings, and selling to the County.
Includes the courts, most wanted, law enforcement, sealing a record, victims' services, jury duty etc.
Includes planning, building codes and permits, owning and renting a property, and property tax assessments
Includes child and adult health service, food stamps, foster care, mental health, in-home nurse, and substance abuse
Includes bereavement, certificates and vital records, and divorce
Includes air quality and burn days, garbage and recycling, sewer, conservation, and green energy financing
Includes adopting a pet, animal control, and local vets and shelters
Includes information on the buildings, county, codes, departments, projects, representation, and voting
Includes activities and events, parks, museums, libraries, and volunteerism
Property taxes, business taxes, transient occupancy taxes, and fines.
Includes passports, bus schedules, and road maintenance
Includes forest fires and floods, emergency preparation, and emergency response
Jennifer Montgomery
Placer County Supervisor
District 5
Contact Supervisor Montgomery
I would like to thank everyone for supporting my recent re-election as your District 5 Supervisor for another 4 years. I am excited and honored to serve the people of Placer County and I look forward to another term of making a difference in District 5 and Placer County.
As a result of re-districting in 2011, I am now proud to serve the City of Auburn and additional areas of un-incorporated North Auburn, as well as the original communities of District 5.
As your supervisor, I will continue to look for positive changes that will serve our County for years to come. We are now working toward a Regional Sewer Project, and are looking to set policies for potential Middle Fork Project revenues that should add valuable funding to Placer County in 2013 and into the future. We continue to face decisions relating to Biomass, Realignment, Redevelopment Dissolution, and the South Placer Justice Center.
As a former volunteer firefighter and the wife of a professional firefighter, I will work with all stakeholders to aggressively manage our private and public lands for reduced fire danger. As seen in the recent "Robbers Fire" we need to actively work toward fuel reduction efforts and protecting life, property, and our firefighters from the danger of fire in our heavily forested District 5 as well as the rest of Placer County.
There are 7 Municipal Advisory Councils (MAC) in District 5 that meet on a monthly basis except one that meets quarterly. These MACs are an important voice of the community which advise the Board of Supervisors. They meet in North Auburn, Foresthill, Meadow Vista, Colfax, Donner Summit, Squaw Valley, and North Tahoe. For more information and agendas please visit the District 5 Event Calendar.
Please join me as we fight to "Preserve, Protect, Restore, and Respect" Placer County.
Thank You,
Jennifer Montgomery
Supervisor, District 5
This website reflects the views of Jennifer Montgomery and may not necessarily reflect the views of the Placer County Board of Supervisors.
I was born in Redwood City, California in 1961. I have two brothers, one step-sister (killed serving in the first Gulf War) and two fantastic parents. I have 6 nieces and nephews whom I adore and three god-children. I am married to firefighter/ paramedic Daniel Gomez and am a 22 year resident of Donner Summit.
I attended K-12 in Redwood City and Palo Alto and received my Bachelor of Arts in 1983 from Mills College in Oakland, California.
In 1987, I returned to college in Rocklin, California at Sierra College for an AA degree in horticulture. At Sierra College I developed a love for Placer County and its agricultural heritage, a love that leads me to protect and preserve that same heritage in my role as County Supervisor.
I met my husband in 1988 when I was a volunteer for the Donner Summit Fire Department and Dan was a full-time fire fighter. In 1991 we were married at Sugar Bowl and moved to our current home in Serene Lakes.
As a Summit resident, I've had the opportunity to work in a number of jobs which taught me many useful skills. Most recently, I owned my own business for 8 years, before that I worked for 10 years at Sugar Bowl, worked at the Sierra Business Council in Truckee, worked as a seasonal employee for the California Department of Agriculture and held a number of other jobs including light and heavy construction.
I have a strong commitment to listening and responding to the needs of the 5th District—I believe that community service is a higher calling and am dedicated to serving my constituents to the best of my abilities. I am honored to serve the voters and residents of the 5th District and look forward to many years of service.
It is important that your voice be heard. Please contact the office at any time if you have questions, concerns, or would like to get involved with shaping your county government.
Thank you,
Jennifer Montgomery
Placer County Supervisor
Contact Supervisor Montgomery
There are nearly two hundred committees and commissions involved in Placer County business. These committees or commissions may have members appointed by the Placer County District 5 Supervisor or by other Placer County officials; or Placer County officials may sit on them or serve as staff. The committees and commissions provide information to or collect information from county residents and other interested parties, or other governmental agencies. They make decisions, or provide advice and assistance to the Board or to other county decision-making bodies, county officials, or staff.
Supervisor Jennifer Montgomery serves on these Committees and Commissions:
Various committees and commission may have vacancies. For more information on how you can serve, view the Committees and Commissions listing.
Copyright 2014 County of Placer, California


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A Midsummer Night's Dream
Nov. 10, 2012
- 7:30pm
Northwestern State Theatre presents: "A Midsummer Night's Dream" in A.A. Fredericks Auditorium. Ticket prices are $15 - Adults, $12 - Seniors & Children, and NSU, LSMSA, and BPCC students attend free with presentation of current Student ID. Tickets may be purchased on our website at http://theatre.nsula.edu or by contacting Jane at 318-357-4483.


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Event Calendar
Complimentary Cookies and Hot Cocoa
From December 05, 2012 to April 07, 2013
From December 05, 2012 to April 07, 2013
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This page displays only a select list of music events.
Want to add Luther College Music Department events to your google calendar? Add this address: email@example.com and follow these instructions.
Nordic Choir Texas Tour: San Antonio, Tex.
|Monday, February 3, 2014
|7:30 pm
|First Baptist Church of San Antonio, 515 McCullough Avenue, San Antonio, Texas 78215
Nordic Choir, founded in 1946, enjoys national and international acclaim as a premier collegiate choral ensemble in the United States. Following the 57-year tenure of Weston Noble, Nordic is currently under the direction of Dr. Allen Hightower, named director of choral activities at Luther College in 2010. Come experience the Nordic Choir if they are near you on their 2014 Tour of Texas and the Midwest.
$20 Adults, $10 Students
Tickets: 1-800-4-LUTHER or tickets.luther.edu
Sponsor: Music
Contact: eric.ellingsen


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Become a Member
The CCPA is Canada's only independent, member-based research institute. Members provide core funding for our work.
In return, members receive:
- The Monitor, a monthly magazine packed with information and articles you won't find anywhere else.
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If you want to support the CCPA but prefer not to join as a member (or if you're already a member and would like to increase your support) you can make a donation.
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Welcome to Wi-Fi! Please remember to read the rules and do NOT create a new thread for simple trades or Friend Safari codes.
A Present of a Rose - The Trinity Trade Thread (Ashi, Lebowski, and the Angel)
Discussion in 'Wi-Fi' started by Ashigaru, Jun 4, 2011.
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Prices and availability are subject to change from the time and date that you print this page.
4/24/2014 11:01:17 PM. For Customer Service, please call 800.933.9904
Our Laying Low Cushions are perfect for watching TV in the family room, hanging out in the basement or lounging around in the bedroom. Cotton canvas covers are durable and soft. Fabric handles make room-to-room transport a cinch.
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USC wins WPIAL boys' golf title
Upper St. Clair proudly displays the trophy captured during the WPIAL team championships for boys' golf. The Panthers won the title with a 381 score. Fox Chapel finished runner-up in the Class AAA division with a 411 mark.
With three scores under par, Upper St. Clair steamrolled to its 18th WPIAL title in boys' golf during the team championships held Oct. 10 at Cedarbrook Golf Course in Belle Vernon. It was the Panthers' second title in three years.
Grant Engel carded a 3-under-par 69 to claim medalist honors and pace the Panthers to a 30-stroke win over the nearest competitor. USC finished with a 381 score while Fox Chapel claimed the runner-up trophy with a 411. Central Catholic (412) and Peters Township (414) followed in third and fourth place.
"Being the guy with the lowest score is a huge honor," said Engel. "There were a lot of phenomenal golfers out there."
Two of them were Engel's teammates as Thomas Steve and Patrick McDonnell posted the next lowest scores. Each senior fired 1-under-par and finished with 71 scores.
"We thought if at least three of us scored in the low 70s," said McDonnell, "then we would do well and have a shot (at the title). There was a lot of pressure on us to do well but we all knew that we could do this. Since our freshman year, we have had a good team."
That good team included Corey Wilding and Nelson Zacur. The two seniors also now have two titles, thanks to their contributing scores of 86 and 84 respectively. Louie Olsakwosky, a freshman, who rounded out USC's starting line-up now has one championships, too.
"All the championships are special," said USC coach Todd Flynn, "but this one is particularly special because I have been blessed with wonderful kids. This group is truly special."
USC wins WPIAL boys' golf title
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Sharp 70" 240Hz WiFi LED LCD TV, $400 Dell GC for $2,000
$2,000 + free shippingSHOP NOW
Posted 4 days 22 hr ago
Dell Home offers the Sharp AQUOS Quattron 70" 240Hz 1080p WiFi LED-Backlit LCD HD Television, model no. LC70EQ10U, with a $400 Dell eGift Card for $1,999.99 with free shipping. Assuming you'll use the gift card, that's $197 below our mention from a month ago and the lowest total price we've seen. (It's a current price low by $259, after factoring in the gift card.) Features include a native resolution of 1920x1080 (1080p), 240Hz refresh rate, LED edge-lit backlight, Quattron quad pixel technology, SmartCentral Smart TV with media streaming from Netflix, Hulu Plus, Pandora, and more, WiFi, two USB inputs, Ethernet, and four HDMI inputs.


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Available exclusively from Hammacher Schlemmer, this cordless, weatherproof light illuminates porches, decks, or patios with LEDs that are twice as bright as typical models. Its six ultra-bright LEDs produce 72 lumens of glare-free light, providing a wide-angle beam similar to a floodlight. The light mounts easily anywhere you desire with the included mounting plate and screws, and no wiring is required. It can be tilted vertically and rotated for any desired position. Its motion sensor will turn the light on at night when it detects movement from up to 25' away and shuts the light off when no motion is detected for 30 seconds. Four C batteries (required) provide power for up to a year; LEDs are rated for 100,000 hours. Silver. 6" L x 6" W x 5" D. (1 1/2 lbs.)
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