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Towards the end of last year, George Clowes, owner of de Jager bulbs, received the letter that so many British tradesmen dream of. It was from the Lord Chamberlain, and it granted de Jager the right to put that distinctive stamp on all its materials, beginning with the magic words: "By Appointment To HRH the Prince of Wales."
"I am thrilled," says Mr Clowes. "Particularly for the staff, who have worked so hard and are overjoyed. We employ more than 40 people, our warehouse manager is in her 42nd year with the company. We're very proud and feel very honoured."
For many retailers, a Royal Warrant is the ultimate accolade. As well as the prestige of the insignia, a warrant still confers an impression of high quality. It is only open to businesses which have supplied goods or services to the royal household for at least five continuous years, and which must then put themselves forward for consideration.
"We supply all the bulbs for Highgrove," Mr Clowes explains. "Usually they give you a break every four years, so when I knew we had been the suppliers for five years in a row I hoped we would be in with a chance. The Lord Chamberlain discusses the warrant with the Prince of Wales's office, then, I think, the Prince has the final sign-off."
Royal approval has been a long time coming. In 1868, Peter de Jager started a bulb business in Heiloo, 20 miles north-west of Amsterdam. Initially the firm focused on Holland, exporting to individuals in the UK, but gradually British interest grew. Peter remained in charge for 52 years until 1920, when his sons took over.
The sons ran it until 1939, when the Nazi invasion halted business. Sales to Britain had continued to grow, however, and when they resumed after the war, the brothers decided to run the company from across the channel. Dutch bulbs were distributed from an office in Kent, where the company is still based.
George Clowes took over in 2008, when he bought the firm from Therese de Jager, widow of Peter's grandson, Dick. "She was 77 and wanted to retire," he explains. "I was a third-generation de Jager client, but only as an amateur, and agreed to take it off her hands."
In the past four years, turnover has increased fourfold: quite an achievement during a recession, though Mr Clowes is circumspect about the figures.
"I took over a company which didn't have a website," he says. "Before we started de Jager had never spent a penny on marketing – now I present our bulbs on QVC. We have turned it into a proactive business, but you'd be silly to think you could sustain that sort of growth indefinitely."
His favourites from the new catalogue are a new range of cannas: "big, tropical and ideal for the back of a border," but he also thinks it's about time dahlias came fully back into fashion.
"I've never had so much fun. Someone once told me that the ultimate product in a recession is lipstick, because it is inexpensive and makes girls feel good. I like to think bulbs are a bit like that: we're selling something which brings pleasure. In tough times, people aren't moving house or going on holiday, but they are spending money on making their gardens nicer."
To mark their receipt of the Royal Warrant, de Jager are offering Gardening readers the chance to win one of 20 sets of 15 mixed Decorative Dahlias, worth £25.30, plus free p&p worth £5.45. To win, email firstname.lastname@example.com with your name, address and contact telephone number, with 'TELEGRAPH' in the subject line. Winners will be picked at random from entries received before noon on Friday, January 18.


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Grand Theft Auto IV Walkthrough
|The Holland Play
|Playboy X
Head over to Playboy X's pad, at the north end of Algonquin on Xenotime Street. When you're there, Playboy X will be lounging around, smoking and drinking and talking about his future plans. However, he has something extremely serious to talk to you about. Basically, he wants his old friend Dwayne dead, and he is trying to hire you to do the job. Of course, this puts you in a ridiculously awkward position, but beyond that, it provides for you one of the big choices in the game you will have to make. For, you can either kill Dwayne, or you can kill Playboy X. One must go.
After the cutscene concludes, break out your cell phone and call Dwayne. He'll give you his side of the story, about how he thinks Playboy X wants him dead, and that he thinks he needs to strike back. He'll even ask you do it for him. Then, call up Playboy X, and he'll reiterate what he told you earlier -- he wants Dwayne dead. It's at that point that you have to make a really important decision. Who will you kill? We here at IGN Guides opted to kill Playboy X. Why? Well, it's easy to rationalize it like this. Playboy X doesn't really offer you anything if you let him live (in fact, he's a thorn in your side). Dwayne offers you not only his friendship (so you can go out with him), but if you get his friendship level high enough, he'll have an ultra-useful feature you can exploit at will. This guide doesn't cover killing Dwayne. It does cover Playboy X. (That shouldn't stop you from doing it the other way around if you so desire, however).
After both phone conversations are over, your ultimatum will flash on-screen, with a red "X" and "D" appearing on your HUD. Head towards the "X", which if you pulled out your phone right after leaving Playboy X's before you'll be right near. If you somehow strayed, then just head back to Xenotime Street at the north end of Algonquin and head into the arrow. When you arrive, Playboy X quickly realizes you didn't kill Dwayne, but that you came for him instead. And even though he talks a lot of crap, he stills runs away and leaves his friends to deal with you.
|Give us feedback!
|Continue Walkthrough...
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subset: commoncrawl


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Double Booked: Everyone Everywhere vs. Matt Pryor and James Dewees
It is a problem that has plagued modern society. It has jolted you out of your sleep in worry and cold sweats. It has left you crippled with regret. It can literally ruin your night. It is the dreaded double booking. Two potentially dope concerts, one potentially dope night. Here on Double Booked, we'll help make your decision easier by breaking down the two shows by category, and deciding which reigns supreme. Let's do this.
This week we pit young guns Everyone Everywhere and their merry bunch of hooligans, who play at The Barbary tomorrow, against old emo fogies Matt Pryor (of The Get Up Kids and The New Amsterdams) and James Dewees (formerly of The Get Up Kids and Reggie And The Full Effect), who play North Star Bar. Who will reign supreme? Read and find out. Continue reading →


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shmenguin wrote:niskanen was better than martin last year. i get the protected minutes thing, but it doesn't change what happened when each of them were on the ice. i wouldn't say martin was conclusively better than michalek either.
defending his play from last year is weird.
Yeah, I'm more inclined to talk about how great he has been this year and leave that disaster alone. Once again, why would the GM ask him if he wanted out unless he had a disaster of a season and the GM was concerned with his mindset?


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Department of Revenue News Release
November 01, 2011New Agent Selected for Aurora License Office
JEFFERSON CITY - The Aurora License Office will soon have a new management team.
The Mount Vernon Area Community Foundation will be the new agent for the Aurora License Office. The winning proposal was chosen as part of a competitive bidding process that is used for all of Missouri's 183 local license offices.
The Mount Vernon Area Community Foundation has previous experience running a license office, as it has been the agent of the Mount Vernon License Office since 2005. The foundation, established in 2005, is a regional affiliate of the Community Foundation of the Ozarks, and provides grants to area organizations to support community projects. The foundation's winning bid for the Aurora License Office was one of two submitted. The Aurora office will stay at its current location of 316 E. Church St.
According to figures from Fiscal Year 2011, there were 25,002 transactions conducted at the office, and it generated $84,767 in agent processing fees.
Bidders have the option of returning part of the office revenues to the state. The foundation's winning bid includes a 1 percent ($847) annual return to state.
All local license offices provide services that are overseen by the Department of Revenue, but each office is operated by an independent agent.
The Missouri Department of Revenue is now on Twitter! To follow the Department on Twitter, go to http://twitter.com/MoRevenue.


text:
Man stabbed at drinking party
STAMFORD -- A city resident was stabbed so viciously during a drinking party on Diaz Street Monday morning that the blade broke off and had to be removed from the man's chest by surgeons, police said.
Police were called at 12:35 a.m. to the first floor of an apartment building at 14 Diaz St., Capt. Richard Conklin said.
There they found a 41-year-old Guatemalan man who had been stabbed in the upper middle and right chest, as well as in the right hand, with a kitchen knife, Conklin said.
Part of the blade remained in one of the man's chest wounds, Conklin said.
"He was stabbed so hard that the kitchen knife broke in his chest and was recovered," Conklin said.
The victim was rushed to Stamford Hospital, where he was expected to survive. "Serious, but not life threatening," Conklin said of his wounds.
Witnesses told police that there was drinking at the apartment party and the victim and perpetrator got into a dispute before the man picked up knife and plunged it into the victim's chest, Conklin said.
Conklin said the witnesses were able to provide police with a first name or nickname of the local man who allegedly was the assailant, and officers are searching for him.


text:
We measure success by how our innovations help you make a difference in the world. So we build medical workstation display controllers with packed-pixel support and hi-res image performance to reveal subtle nuances and clarity medical professionals can rely on.
OpenCL and the OpenCL logo are trademarks of Apple Inc. used by permission by Khronos.


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This may seem like a silly question, but I really don't know and am a little nervous to try but really want to do it anyways lol. I want to try riding unhooked. Ive had a good scare once with the kite looping like mad and have been super cautious ever since (hooked in).
Is it actually safer to ride unhooked? (leash on of course) Ive seen and heard of some people saying to launch the kite unhooked first, so if anything goes wrong you can just drop the kite and it kills the power?
When riding unhooked, if you wipe out or drop the kite (but you have your leash on) will the kite depower or can it possibly power up at any time and do any crazy stuff like looping or anything else dangerous? This may seem like a dum question, but I truly dont know and want to understand better.


text: Low cost beds and mattress direct range of Electric adjustable beds Available in sizes 2ft6 small single 75cm, 3ft single 90cm, 4ft small double 120cm and 4ft6 double 135cm. All models are 6'6" in length (200cm) The adjustable beds have quiet motors, sprung slats, 6 button remote, and the mattress that comes with the adjustable bed is either a pocket sprung mattress or a memory foam mattress depending on the model bed you chooose. Our Electric adjustable beds are available as a deep base, or leg base. Remember that every Electric adjustable bed listed is GUARANTEED to be in stock in our own warehouse and is available for delivery in 2 working days.


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Obut Petanque 2 PAL XBOX360-iNSOMNi
Scene group iNSOMNi released Obut Petanque 2 for XBOX360. A good Sports game continued on the success of the previous game … Enjoy!
Description: Alone or with friends, you find yourself in the friendly of the sport, and with the Kinect technology, discover quality simulation ever! Choose your balls from a wide range of equipment the famous brand Obut, the specialist bowls. In eight different environments, choose one of the four types of playgrounds for the effects you want to simulate and select your team according to their specialties (shooter, pointer and middle). Organize tournaments head to head, doublet or triplet with your friends and refine your style and game tactics to your opponents training and career modes. Grow the talents of your team members, manage their concentration during matches, recruit your opponents and gain of more efficient equipment to become a true champion bocce.
- With technology Kinect motion detection, play the real movements of champions in a more accurate simulation.
- The deposit of the famous Obut, an additional lever for sales!
- 8 environments around the world: Parc Provence, Outdoor, Stadium, Pacific Islander, Middle East, Vietnam, California …
- 4 types of playgrounds equipped with features that actually affect the game: sand, clay, fine gravel and coarse gravel.
- A career mode to create your team and bring it to the world championships.
- Unlock new balls and many accessories for your team.
- Up to 4 players.
Publisher: Bigben Interactive
Developer: Kylotonn
Genre: Sports
Region: FREE
Release name: Obut.Petanque.2.PAL.XBOX360-iNSOMNi
Size: 5.98 GB
Language: English
Links: NFO – NTi
Download: HERE


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Boarding House (US - DVD R1)
This may be the most awesomely awful motion picture Gabe has ever seen...
You know you're in for something special when the opening credits are set in almost unreadable Commodore 64 text to a totally rad 8-bit electronic score.
I'm at a loss. I can't sum up this plot because I have no idea what just happened. Apparently there's this guy who practices a special brand of Yoga that makes it possible for him to move objects with his mind. Telekinetic Man buys a big house with plans to turn it into a boarding house for sexy girls (only sexy girls); the problem being that the house is kind of haunted by some kind of outside force, which also has telekinetic powers. Then some girls wrestle in bikinis. Later some girls have a lingerie party. There are some sex scenes, and a couple of people are killed telekinetically (though which telekinetic is doing the killing seems to be up to the audience).
Boarding House may be the worst DVD released movie I've ever had the pleasure of enduring. This was one of the first (some say the first) films shot entirely on video. The, ahem, 'cinematographer' lops off most of his shots too high, and depends too much on the camcorder's 'zoom' function (in and out an in and out equals scary). Panning shots are obviously created using the tripod that came with the camera, and the tripod is in obvious need of a greasing. Sometimes the frame shudders as the tripod sticks, or as the camera man is apparently startled by a character coming into frame too high.
The editing, acting, scoring, scripting, and production values are all phenomenally clumsy, again, among the worst I've ever seen. I won't waste your time with specifics. There is an inescapable fascination in watching something this inept, and though padded to a mind numbing ninety-eight minutes, there is plenty entertainment value to be absorbed. The unequivocal volume of girls in bikinis and lingerie is good for mindless regalement, and the gore scenes are delightfully ham-fisted and bloody. Once one knows that the 'director' is also the 'star', the film takes on new levels of hilarity as he repeatedly dresses in nothing but leopard print Speedos and sleeps with basically every girl in the house. He also has a rat-tail.
'Director' and 'star' Johnn Wintergate claims on the DVD commentary and interview that he intended the film as a spoof of early slashers, but I don't buy it, especially when he doesn't back up that in passing comment with many samples (he makes claim to a few pratfalls that were deleted by the distributor that wanted a real horror feature). Spoofs don't pad out their runtime with 'dramatic' plot development, or long shots of menial tasks, and they generally tend to make jokes. I don't believe most of these laughs were intended (except a golfer falling over). The only spoof element I buy is the use of 'Horror Vision', which is a 'warning' of future carnage, similar to those used in old William Castle flicks. These warnings are either a black-gloved hand set against a digital rainbow, or a digital 'spectre'.
Once again, Boarding House is one of the first filmed on video motion pictures, so there really isn't much the Code Red folks can do about it. Overall the print looks as good as anyone can expect, but there are still plenty of glaring errors to contend with. We've got analogue tape tracking errors, chroma noise (some of it seems to be on purpose to look 'cool'), comet tails, a touch of mosquito noise, and some really high gain. The colours are bright enough once you get past the almost impossible to read opening credits, but they bleed into each other a whole lot. Details are pretty weak, but contrast levels are effective.
I don't know if Code Red has made a mistake in reproducing this stereo soundtrack, or if they've done a bang up job and the original tracks were just this screwy. Almost all music and post added sound effects are delegated to the right speaker, and almost all dialogue, on set sound effects and screaming is delegated to the left. The mix volume is totally random, and tinny with the sound intake of a cheap, on-camera mic. Sometimes one channel will be impossible to hear, while another will blare with distortion.
Extras begin with a goofy commentary featuring director/star Johnn Wintergate, actress Kalassu (that's the whole name), and moderator/fans Lee Christian and Jeff McCay. Most of the track is devoted to laughing at the movie, and most of the jokes fall hilariously flat, including some really uncomfortable racism when an Asian girl shows up for a brief love scene with Josh Brolin's little brother (really?). Wintergate, who has the gall to use the word 'innovative' when describing his filming choices, has some awesomely intricate explanations for the plot, which apparently involves alternate dimensional Hitlers (!).
The following interview with Wintergate and Kalassu covers most of the same material, but with the added bonus of getting to see these undeniably silly looking people. They misremember a lot of facts (there's no way a 1982 release played against Jaws), mispronounce words (it's 'aspiring actors' not 'inspiring actors'), and they keep laying claims to purposeful humour (I still don't buy it guys). In other words, comic gold. The interview is followed by a collection of Code Red trailers.
This is as bad as it gets people. I'm desperately struggling to remember anything this poorly conceived and created. I regret giving Live Feed and Nightmare Man such low scores, because this one has really no where to go (and 0/10 is still reserved for White Chicks only). However, this doesn't mean Boarding House doesn't come highly recommended to fans of bad movies, or those with a spare weekend and surplus of alcohol and pizza.
Review by Gabriel Powers
Under 17 requires accompanying parent or adult guardian
Disc Details
Release Date: 29th April 2008
Discs: 1
Disc Type: Single side, single layer
RCE: No
Video: NTSC
Aspect: 1.33:1
Anamorphic: Yes
Colour: Yes
Audio: Dolby Digital Stereo English
Subtitles: None
Extras: Director/Actor Commentary, Director/Actor Interviews, Trailers
Easter Egg: No
Feature Details
Director: John Wintergate
Cast: Alexandra Day, John Wintergate, Kalassu
Genre: Comedy and Horror
Length: 93 minutes
1Review Guide
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SEE PHOTOS: Spectacular photography of Ireland by Damien Stenson - slideshow
Irish photographer Damien Stenson once again captured a stunning shot of Ireland this week, with his latest photo of the International Space Station over Lough Talt in Co. Sligo.
Stenson is known for his skill of capturing spectacular nighttime landscapes in Ireland. Last October, he snapped a dazzling shot of the Cliffs of Moher, taken at night with the Milky Way resplendent in the night sky.
Writing on his Facebook page. Stenson explained how he captured his latest photo.
"Here is a picture of the International Space Station fresh from the memory card. Just home from a night of photography with my dad. This picture was taken two hours ago in south county Sligo.
"Had planned earlier today to grab this shot as I had calculated that the International space station would fly right over this scene. Luckily the weather stayed clear. Most of the light on the foreground is natural lights of cars passing buy and a local yard of a house, which is well illuminated
"I used a very little amount of light painting to brighten up the boat. Happy also to report that this photograph didn't involve any surprise visits from the Garda Síochána (Police).
"The last night I was out, someone seen some suspicious activity (my 1600 lumen torch which looks like an airport runway) and called the Gardaí. Anyways, two squad cars came out to see what I was up too.
"Luckily I evaded the law tonight. Hope you like it, thanks for looking and feel free to share."


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1. Re: Pay for InContext ???doeydude Mar 30, 2009 4:48 AM (in response to [S]up)This is really driving me mad.
I would develop simple sites for my clients and they nearly always ask for a content management facility. So I have been implementing different systems over the years depending on their requirements.
When InContext came out I thought that this was just fantastic. It was an easy to setup and easy to use system. Changes are made from within the actual browser and not some form that looks a million miles from what the page looks like. And of course it bypasses the upload of scripts to the hosting server that never work first time round and take days to get working correctly.
The only reason I bought Dreamweaver CS4 was because of InContext. The online videos and literature from Adobe convinced me to buy this new version. Otherwise CS3 would have done just fine for the foreseeable future. I have been working on existing sites and have priced for new work based on the InContext addition to Dreamweaver.
By chance at the weekend I found out that this service will eventually have a monthly charge that has yet to be determined. So I now have to remove the InContext work that I have already done and re-price the work that I am going for, which will probably mean that I will loose it. All the work that I have done so far with InContext are on websites that I do not host. It is once off work. So if there is an ongoing fee that I must pay and I cannot re-coup it, then this means that I cannot use InContext. To be honest with you most of the sites that I would be using it for would contain a small amount of content that would only need to be updated every couple of months, like a newsletter section.
So the advertised new feature of Dreamweaver CS4 ends up to be an extra that will cost HUNDREDS of dollars every year into infinity. This has to be the biggest mistake Adobe have ever made. This is only going to turn people away from Adobe products and lead them to find other companies that will provide the same product/service but give it as an included service with their software.
Let's face it Dreamweaver is NOT cheap and Adobe doing this is just going to drive a wedge between Adobe and its ever shrinking loyal clientele.
2. Re: Pay for InContext ???[S]up Mar 31, 2009 7:57 AM (in response to doeydude)Thank you doey, hope more ppl will share their opinions here. Great explanation...
3. Re: Pay for InContext ???MJOS Apr 7, 2009 8:38 AM (in response to [S]up)1 person found this helpful
I have registred some of my clients to InContextEditing because it is really cool for them. But when I discovered we will have to pay for that, I told them they wil be charged if they want to keep it. THEY ARE NOT INTERESTED and it seems it is cheaper if I do the editing myself. So I won't offer this service anymore.
4. Re: Pay for InContext ???Tommy Logic Apr 7, 2009 9:03 AM (in response to [S]up)1 person found this helpful
Yep.. I totally agree with all the above. Most of my clients simply will NOT pay for this simple service. As long as it remains free, I can justify our time costs, but if they start charging money, I will discontinue the service.
I find that the minimal changes most clients require, cost us very little time & money as it is... I would rather just do the updates in house. There are too many FREE solutions that fit most users needs. If they need a full featured comercial solution... I would go with Expression Engine all the way. Their yearly cost is less than $40!!! And they get a whole lot more.
-Tommy Logic
5. Re: Pay for InContext ???C_T Apr 8, 2009 5:54 PM (in response to [S]up)
Unreal, we were swayed from using a text editor and purchased DreamWeaver CS4 because of the supposed "included" content manager InContext, for our clients that desired to make simple edits. Apperantly we should have gone with Joomla or Drupal. Now we'll have to explain Adobe's surreptitious marketing tactic of "hook'em and bleed'em!" We will be sure to inform every client about Adobe's game. BAD move — especially after Grant Collaborative worked so hard to straighten out this company's very disconjoined departments and recreate a new unified Adobe brand. Adobe marketing should remember Ivan Pavlov's classical conditioning paradigm. One thing is for sure, were all going to be a little more timid to embrace any "new" technologies from Adobe henceforth, for fear of the shock afterward!
Remember this — inform your clients. Word of mouth is very powerful.
6. Re: Pay for InContext ???cocoon2345 Apr 8, 2009 11:39 PM (in response to [S]up)
I live in Switzerland so I checked www.adobe.ch site, and there I am told that CS4 allows the owner of the website to update it without my intervention as a webmaster, exactly what I need! So I bought DW CS4 precisely because of the CMS option.
How disappointing!
I now realise that:
1. It is not yet available for my country and no release date is mentioned by Adobe
2. There will be an extra fee for the option
3. The extra fee will be a recurring charge
I have the bad feeling I have been cheated by Adobe. The ad is misleading, it should say:
US Webmasters only: Design your pages in Dreamweaver so end users can edit their web pages, for an additional recurring charge, without help from you or additional software using the InContext Editing online service.
It doesn't look that great all of a sudden, does it?
Out of the 3 reasons of disappointment that I mentioned, the one I find worst is the recurring charge. It links you forever with your customer with a charge that you have to pass on, taking additional risks of getting bad debts. Besides you have to buy batches of 5 domains: you need 1, you buy 5 and pay for the other 4 until you have found another customer who needs CMS and is ready to pay for it recurringly! Adobe is supposed to provide high-quality tools for professionals, not to make their financials difficult.
To make it short:
Such a misleading ad is NOT ACCEPTABLE
A recurring fee is NOT ACCEPTABLE
7. Re: Pay for InContext ???[S]up Apr 10, 2009 4:33 AM (in response to [S]up)
Say What You Wanna Say... Thank you all who did spend time and keep the discussion alive...I would like to summarize some very important lines which are taken from your posts regarding the "Adobe InContext Editing".
- The only reason I bought Dreamweaver CS4 was because of InContext. The online videos and literature from Adobe convinced me to buy this new version. Otherwise CS3 would have done just fine for the foreseeable future.
By doeydude
- Advertised new feature of Dreamweaver CS4 ends up to be an extra that will cost HUNDREDS of dollars every year into infinity. This has to be the biggest mistake Adobe have ever made. This is only going to turn people away from Adobe products and lead them to find other companies that will provide the same product/service but give it as an included service with their software.
By doeydude
- I have registred some of my clients to InContextEditing because it is really cool for them. But when I discovered we will have to pay for that, I told them they wil be charged if they want to keep it.THEY ARE NOT INTERESTED and it seems it is cheaper if I do the editing myself. So I won't offer this service anymore.
By C.MJS
- Most of my clients simply will NOT pay for this simple service. As long as it remains free, I can justify our time costs, but if they start charging money, I will discontinue the service.
By Tommy Logic
- I find that the minimal changes most clients require, cost us very little time & money as it is... I would rather just do the updates in house. There are too many FREE solutions that fit most users needs. If they need a full featured comercial solution... I would go with Expression Engine all the way. Their yearly cost is less than $40!!! And they get a whole lot more.
By Tommy Logic
- Unreal, we were swayed from using a text editor and purchased DreamWeaver CS4 because of the supposed "included" content manager InContext, for our clients that desired to make simple edits. Apperantly we should have gone with Joomla or Drupal. Now we'll have to explain Adobe's surreptitious marketing tactic of "hook'em and bleed'em!" We will be sure to inform every client about Adobe's game. BAD move especially after Grant Collaborative worked so hard to straighten out this company's very disconjoined departments and recreate a new unified Adobe brand.
By C_T
- I now realise that:
1. It is not yet available for my country and no release date is mentioned by Adobe
2. There will be an extra fee for the option
3. The extra fee will be a recurring charge
I have the bad feeling I have been cheated by Adobe. The ad is misleading,
By cocoon234
We hope the Adobe Employees here who do help in the support forums will not take this personal and forward our voices to related persons as there are substantially of people been stuck in a difficult situation with this very important mistake of Adobe's MarketingTeam have done...
- The only reason I bought Dreamweaver CS4 was because of InContext. The online videos and literature from Adobe convinced me to buy this new version. Otherwise CS3 would have done just fine for the foreseeable future.
8. Re: Pay for InContext ???Tommy Logic Apr 10, 2009 9:25 AM (in response to [S]up)
^^^ I think that about sums it up. ^^^^
Today I made a decision for the company. We will no longer publish ANY pages for use with InContext Editing.
This completely releases the need to update any machines to CS4, saving us thousands of dollars. I recommend that everyone testing CS4 specifically for the purpose of InConext editing... DO NOT WASTE THE MONEY ON CS4. It sounds like a money pit that you will be forced to dump an untold amount of money into.
Until Adobe makes a final decision on the cost of the "service" we canot effectively forcast our budgets. I will on the otherhand continue to sell Contribute, as it works well in our workflow. I still have clients who use Contribute from 5 years ago on a one time purchase $79 license...
But to be honest there, if we're required to build a template for simple flat sites, we'll continue to concentrate our efforts on the FREE alternatives such as Joomla, Wordpress & CushyCMS. I migrated that direction just because a $199 License is a burden for my company to sell. With so many free alternatives, clients just won't pay for it anymore... and I can't see them paying a vague $10~20ish per month.
We will continue to test InContext Editing for inhouse purposes only in an effort to contribute our experiences to the ongoing development and progress of Adobe Labs. Should Adobe decide to come up with a solid pricing plan, I will pass it on to our clients and offer it as a product.
You never know when a client just wants to dump a truckload of money.
9. Re: Pay for InContext ???cristinel@adobe Apr 10, 2009 10:28 AM (in response to [S]up)
Updated since hitting tab on the browser submited the form.
Hi everyone,
I would like to start by thanking everyone for this feedback which is really useful for us as we want to make sure we define a valuable offer for you.
To summarize your concerns, I'd say that following pain points can be identified:
- Although advertised as a Dreamweaver CS4 feature, it is not clear enough that the editing service will be a paid service
- Regional sites do not clearly explan the fact that service is available only in NA and is English only
- Planned service price seems high
I'd like to write a few lines about motivations or intentions for everyone of these items and open-up the discussion. Your feedback is welcomed and I think none of my colleagues will take personally.
- Paid Dreamweaver feature?
- Not really. We intend to run the service as a standalone editing service. However, we want or intend to give Dreamweaver users some integration features that would help them create editable websites faster, using Dreamweaver's design view and InContext Editing commands. This was the message we tried to send, but seems that it needs more clarity.
- Regional sites do not clearly explain the fact that service is available only in NA and is English only
- I took a closer look at those websites I would say that could be improved. On each site the service page explains the fact that is only available in English and then includes a link that redirects visitors to the US English website. However, on the Dreamweaver main page, the link to the feature sends visitors directly on the US service page. We would try to improve this.
- I took a closer look at those websites I would say that could be improved. On each site the service page explains the fact that is only available in English and then includes a link that redirects visitors to the US English website. However, on the Dreamweaver main page, the link to the feature sends visitors directly on the US service page. We would try to improve this.
- Planned service price seems high
- Well, what's for sure, is that it will not be free.
- However, we need your feedback regarding what do you think it will make the service a valuable tool for you and your customers
- I don't know what to say about Expression Engine, since paying $249 for commercial version, means $125 in two years; not to speak about wanting more modules;
- It's true that there are a lot of free CMS's and we cannot and do not want to compete with them. However, we want to think that you'd use InContext Editing service on simpler websites, where the integration cost of these solutions is not justifiable.
- As for $10-20 for your customers - that's not true. This is the cost for you, and it includes five domains. It's up to you how much you charge your customers.
I'd like to hear your comments related to pricing and how do you think or would like to see as options.
Thank you,
Message was edited by: Cristinel Anastasoaie
10. Re: Pay for InContext ???antlion Apr 10, 2009 3:47 PM (in response to cristinel@adobe)
Here are my thoughts regarding whether InContext Editing will be a worthy investment for me and my client. I currently have only one client who could benefit from InContext. The annual maintenance charge to my client potentially eliminated by InContext is about $300.
Assuming a $20/month fee ($240 per year) for InContext passed on to my client, my client would normally save $60 per year. But if I take into account the one-time labor cost of $150 for converting the site to InContext, my client actually would end up losing $90 the first year! I couldn't recommend the service to my client at $20/month. In fact, if the fee turns out to be $20/month, I not only would have to reject Adobe's service, but also probably charge my client to dismantle the InContext-enabled pages. The client loses twice!
Assuming a $10/month fee ($120 per year), the client potentially saves $30 the first year, and $180 during subsequent years. I consider this a minimally-acceptable savings.
I realize that if I had more clients I could spread the Adobe fee around but, in my current situation, I would not be able to pay a subscription fee higher than $10/month. A fee of $5/month would be more reasonable.
I imagine that most of our clients are small businesses who, in these economically-challenging times, are looking for every opportunity to save money. I am not skilled in PHP, databases, or other content management tools, so I can't realistically market my services to new clients unless I can offer some rudimentary content management such as that provided by InContext Editing. (But I don't wish to eat the cost of a high InContext subscription while I look for more clients.) Others have mentioned Joomla, etc., as economical alternatives. Adobe should consider these factors when it decides on its fee structure.
11. Re: Pay for InContext ???Tommy Logic Apr 10, 2009 4:29 PM (in response to antlion)
Expression Engine is like InContext x 1000 and worth every penny if it meets the clients needs.What you are offering is nothing more than CushyCMS for $240 per year. Thats my point. You're adding a class that enables editing. PERIOD. The worse part is that we all know this price will increase with time as all Adobe products do..
You're asking us as developers to promote and sell a service with little to no incentive to us. You say.. "charge whatever you like for the service" which translates to "sell our product for us and next year we'll charge you 20% more to make it convenient for you"
The service you are offering is already done, and done well, and it's free. What's the incentive to us? Seems like we should at least get 3 free with our login. Or maybe since we're all here as you guinea pigs, testing your BETA product, you could give us a little something. I mean, Jesuits Chrust, we already shelled out how many hundreds of dollars... That's kind of our point. I mean, are you going to start charging for Spry Widgets too? I bet Adobe sunk a lot more money in that than they did in a remade CushyCMS with a convenient "Insert" Button.
12. Re: Pay for InContext ???seoseattle1 Apr 11, 2009 4:28 PM (in response to Tommy Logic)
Hi Everyone...
I really liked reading everyone's opinion and feel that I can ad very little. But, from a monetary only, NO WAY!
Do You Think This Charging Is Fair? NO
Do you think you can make ur clients pay that money? Maybe
Do you think Dreamweaver should have build in paid features? YES
Do you think you are going to buy it? Probably
Do you think CushyCMS (which makes the same job for free) can not handle the same thing for you? Not Sure
Do you think you are going to buy DW for US$699 and pay more for In Context or should be inContext for always free as Adobe will not host nothing for us expect of ftp connection information and a couple of line connection reports? NOT SURE
Thanks for the information.
13. Re: Pay for InContext ???cocoon2345 Apr 12, 2009 4:17 AM (in response to cristinel@adobe)
Hello Cristinel,
thanks a lot for your feed-back.
Regarding costs, I think our customers are willing to pay more for a CMS site than for a regular site, but if they choose to do the updates themselves, it is precisely to get rid of a recurring charge and avoid any kind of dependency towards a webmaster. That's why I think that having a webmaster charge them recurringly is precisely what everybody wants to avoid.
Besides, invoicing small amounts recurringly is certainly not what Adobe wants to get into. International recurring billing of small amounts is a hassle, and Adobe is not a telecom company.It is also an exposure to bad debts for both webmasters and Adobe.
To summarise, recurring billing is:
1. precisely what our customers want to avoid with CMS
2. exposing webmasters to bad debts
3. not a good financial move for Adobe
So please, don't go into this.
I truly think that Incontext should be a option included in Dreamweaver, but giving stuff away for free is not what Adobe normally does, we all know that.
I would agree to pay a one-time fee per domain, but anything above 50$ per domain would be totally unreasonable.
14. Re: Pay for InContext ???antlion Apr 12, 2009 8:57 AM (in response to cocoon2345)
I think Sara's observations and proposal are extremely thoughtful (and much better articulated than my comments above). Clients want a CMS precisely because eliminates or reduces maintenance (and recurring fees). (I had to turn down two clients last year because I wasn't equipped for CMS.) If Adobe decides to charge for InContext, I agree with Sara that the ideal InContext fee would be a small one-time charge that designers could include as part of their initial design/setup charges to the client. (Designers would need to pay the fee only as they add clients who want the service.)
15. Re: Pay for InContext ???Tommy Logic Apr 12, 2009 9:42 AM (in response to antlion)
In reponse to : " I'd like to hear your comments related to pricing and how do you think or would like to see as options. "
I agree with both above in that they were perhaps better articulated. We just feel that it could be implemented better than their current pricing scheme.
We've been shooting this around the office a bit & here's what we came up with.
- Developer / Designer: Unlimited accounts for setup, and maintenance under our Adobe login. Since we purchased the initial product (Dreamweaver,etc.) and set up the client to use the service provided by Adobe we should be able to have free access to the InContext Service.
- End User / Customer: Sign up fee when they register for their account (when we send them an invitation). The client will have a 30/60 day trial and then have the option of signing up for a recurring fee. This takes the burden off the developer for collecting / selling aditional Adobe services. Adobe can charge whatever they feel necessary.
I think Adobe is probably more adept in these practices and has the capabilities in place to monitor customer loyalty, marketing strategies, etc. Their marketing department then has the ability to promote additional products to those that are willing to pay for "subscription based" services. This completely removes the burden from the developer and opens a door to a whole new market for Adobe. The designer / developer simply has the choice of setting it up & sending Adobe SOLID sales leads. This might be a much better arrangement & MUCH more fair.
Any thoughts???
*** Further Thoughts ***
How would Adobe implement this? EASY:
- When the developer sets up the site for InContext Editing, they add a Key to the HEAD of the front page. This gives Adobe a means of insuring the developer authenticates a site.
- Adobe allows only ONE ( incentive { free: important!; width:100%; } ) Administrator Account per site and that goes to the developer.
- Adobe charges whomever it is that registers Publisher Accounts. This gives the developer the choice of selling the service to the client or enables the client to make their own decision.
- Developer can setup and test sites freely. This is important because we need the ability to change or modify the editable regions and user preferences at any given moment.
- Adobe still collects their fee, and probably more than what we could individually.
- Adobe has a direct line to new sales leads that developers probably couldn't take advantage of.
- Adobe builds a relationship with developers that turns them into Adobe sales reps. with distinct, MEASURABLE incentives to both parties.
Message was edited by: Tommy Logic
Any thoughts on that???
- Developer / Designer: Unlimited accounts for setup, and maintenance under our Adobe login. Since we purchased the initial product (Dreamweaver,etc.) and set up the client to use the service provided by Adobe we should be able to have free access to the InContext Service.
16. Re: Pay for InContext ???[S]up Apr 17, 2009 1:50 AM (in response to [S]up)
Wow !!!
Huge attention to discussion
I am very glad to see a great number of people did follow this discussion in very short time since we have posted it; Also very nice to see Adobe also paid attention to our personal comments here about pricing the "Adobe InContext Editing" and the way they did commercialize it on their videos and presentations on Adobe's home page.
I read it all very carefully and see some very good explanations regarding the subject . Thank you all for your time but to be honest i didn't know people will pay so much attention to my post.
I have very little left to say after viewing the discussion and have come to the conclusion that this will probably be a never ending issue. Pricing an Adobe product is not an everyday activity, so i think what "Cristinel" did was very kind as the company he work for is currently rules the visual marketing for the planet we live on... . I or any one of us who use Adobe products should have no right to price the product as we have nothing to do with Adobe except for personal or work purposes. Adobe price and develop it all very well since they started.
I wanna go with my very own personal clarification after the discussion is not my own any more...
I paid the asking price as I believe it deserves every penny I have invested into Adobe Dreamweaver; but in all honesty I will no longer take part of and will distance myself if I am made to pay a monthly fee for an additional DW feature and will not integrate it into my work place environment.
In addition, I am sadden by the fact that consumers are lead to believe 'InContext' is included as a new feature of DW CS4. From now I can not take myself to be carefully with Adobe words and products...
In a position in which Adobe employees are unsure of, I will not further stress myself with an unknown future.
A small concern in relation to the "service fee."
- Stated in your summary of concerns(Regarding Cristinel's post from Adobe) it points out that "Although advertised as a Dreamweaver CS4 feature, it is not clear enough that the editing service will be paid."
- However under planned service price, it mentions that "what's for sure, it will not be free."
Nonetheless, I feel exceptionally lucky and am grateful that Adobe did not ask for a monthly fee for the included FTP and Server Side features. Best of luck to all those who will continue to use Adobe InContext.
Best Regards
17. Re: Pay for InContext ???Erika_Lundqvist Apr 18, 2009 2:17 AM (in response to [S]up)
Good Discussion Guys !!!
What is this paying thing about the Adobe InContext Editing?
What they gonna charge us for?
They charge for the new Feature? ( Isn't it their job to present us new features so there will be a reason to buy Adobe products? )
Should never use it in my codes...
18. Re: Pay for InContext ???freak_dk Apr 21, 2009 5:06 AM (in response to [S]up)
I can't believe this!
I just realized today, that the incontent editing wil become a paid service!
That is absolutely ridicolous.
It would actually be cheaper for people to buy Contribute, and use that for editing, to use this, much more simple, service.
I have used incontent editing on two customer websites, which only have the demand for editing their site a few times a year. Therefore it was to expensiv, and an overkill to use Contribute.
If it becomes a paid service, I will for sure look into some of the CMS alternatives stated by some of the others in this discussion...
19. Re: Pay for InContext ???BCDoherty Apr 21, 2009 5:15 PM (in response to freak_dk)
InContext Editing is a great idea. Not knowing how much it will cost, under what terms, or even whent the decision will be made is killing it. If the price is small enough, I can pass it on to the clients as a value-added service. In no way would I want them to have to pay Adobe directly. I know they will not. It will be hard enough getting them to register. From what I've seen in many ways of doing it, is that clients want a neatly-wrapped single-source solution, completely integrated and mindless.
Is there any prospect of getting real answers soon?
20. Re: Pay for InContext ???Tommy Logic Apr 22, 2009 7:16 AM (in response to BCDoherty)
"I can pass it on to the clients as a value-added service. In no way would I want them to have to pay Adobe directly. I know they will not. It will be hard enough getting them to register. From what I've seen in many ways of doing it, is that clients want a neatly-wrapped single-source solution, completely integrated and mindless."
I disagree in that it will be an easy "bundled" sale... with today's marketplace, I think that anything that increases our overhead makes it more difficult. As stated by several others, multiple times before, there are WAY too many free options available.
I Agree with the fact that its almost impossible to get a client to even register for a service.. Given that alone, I think if Adobe wants to charge for features, and their marketing geniuses think they can pull it off.. then they should charge the proper market; the end user. Either way about it, it is going to be a sales point for someone; I just happen to believe that Adobe stands to gain the most from this "feature" and they therefore should also be the one to sell this "feature"... but we're not buying it. We bought it already... 8 licenses @ $499 EACH!!!
21. Re: Pay for InContext ???Eddie Lobanovskiy Apr 23, 2009 9:29 PM (in response to [S]up)
InContext is a great idea, but the price should be already included into DW price. This is where it is starting to become a little evil...
Some clients need to just tweak just a couple of sentenses in a month or two - that's not a very good reason to pay another similar to hosting fee.
I would definitely use it for all my clients if it wasn't paid service, but I doubt any client would like to sign up for another monthly fee... so I know I would never use it if it was paid service, there's way too many beautiful open source CMS out there that clients would much rather preffer, rather than paying for editing words on their very own web site...
22. Re: Pay for InContext ???BCDoherty Apr 24, 2009 3:44 AM (in response to Eddie Lobanovskiy)
I agree about clients not wanting to sign up for another fee, which is why we would have to bundle it into the client price. I could see offering this feature to a client for a small additional fee - as a new level of hosting option, perhaps even absorbing some of the cost to make it palatable.
The biggest attraction I see to ICE is the WYSIWYG editing it offers (subject to developer constraints). I haven't seen this is any CMS. The browser interface is also far less threatening to a client, one less new thing to learn and screw up.
I need a service like this that is transparent to the user, so they have nothing to do. I am not always within reach of a client, so if they get into trouble - even with the registering - there may be no direct way for me to bail them out. If a client can do something wrong, they will. Murphy's law again. Even if it means extra work for me, I would feel more comfortable registering the client myself, and being able to say to the client - here it is. sit at your browser, log in and edit away.
23. Re: Pay for InContext ???Eddie Lobanovskiy Apr 24, 2009 1:33 PM (in response to BCDoherty)
I see where you coming from BCDoherty, I would definitely prefer paying a little more for the software once, and not to bug clients or stress myself over creating new paid accounts. Good idea, but it needs to make sense payment wise.
If you go into monthly payments, than might as well have a counter on DW for how many sites you can build, and charge per site, for folks that don't use InContext* . Simply not fair, you must agree, I think fee should be hidden in DW License Price, + bragged about this super cool feature comparing it to all other HTML visual & nonvisual editors... Just a thought.
24. Re: Pay for InContext ???weblinkstudio May 1, 2009 6:52 AM (in response to [S]up)
I have installed InContect on several sites and I must say I cannot recommend it if it becomes a paid service. I discussed it with many more customers indicating that it may cost $5/month in the future. None of them was willing to even try it out for this price. The one customer who is using it frequently has losts of trouble. First, an automated security update on her computer updated IE which disabled InContext. I told her to install Firefox. While this may seem easy to us, it was a hassle for her. As soon as she got access to her site again, the upgrade of InContext diabled font color changes. Needless to say, she is not excited.
Another customer tried it and InContect created hooorrrrible code on his site. Stacked div tags 10 levels deep. (There was H1 tag and he hit "enter" repeatedly. He was not able to start a simple new paragraph.) I had to download the site and clean it up with Dreamweaver. Will the customer pay for my time? No way, he feels I suggested an inferior product.
In closing, we web designers will have to clean up and trouble shoot sites that get ruined with WYSIWYG edtitors and customers will never be willing to pay for that tedious task. The only way it makes sense to me is if I can keep a customer for the bigger tasks and let him play with his site in between. Paying a fee on top of that trouble is just not an option.
To make my life even more difficult, there is no code view option were I can quickly fix little things for customers. I have to download the page, edit it and reupload and test. Way too much work for nothing.....
25. Re: Pay for InContext ???MorrisE Apr 30, 2009 8:23 PM (in response to [S]up)
I have three concerns about InContext, cost, stability, product availability.
First, the proposed charge of $120 - $240 annually is only for 5 web sites. I have not seen anything regarding how much will be charged for additional sites. I have about 40 sites where I think InContext would be worthwhile for clients posting emergency notices. I would assume the incremental cost over the basic five sites would be less than the basic charge, but Adobe has given no indication other than there will be a per site charge after the basic 5 sites. Will there be a limit to the number of sites that we can enroll? I don't want to start something and then discover I cannot add additional clients because the live product offering has un upper limit to the number of sites or the incremental pricing is too high.
Second, is that the production code be stable and avoid problems such as locking people out if a browser is updated. Today, I had to have a client using Firefox clear out his cookies file so he could edit a page after he logged in but I consider those type of problems part of the beta..
Third, it is important to be able to give us a definitive target date for going live. We cannot make any plans or decisions regarding whether we will actually use the product if it does not have a release date. It forces us to look for alternatives. I do understand the concept of Beta Tests and have been on both sides of the fence numerous times. My concern is that an open-ended beta test (the way it appears now) is often times a product the never reaches actual production status.
Finally, I believe the concept of a one-time fixed initial licence charge is a great idea. Personally, I happen to be a fan of Adobe products and have used their products for years, but have also found other products where Adobe fell short of our needs. Hopefully, this will not be one of those times.
M. Enyeart
26. Re: Pay for InContext ???pwizzard May 7, 2009 9:48 AM (in response to [S]up)
Discovered the incredible InContext Editing service today, with many small clients unable to afford and unwilling to learn more involved CMS this service seemed to solve many problems.
But alas have just realised the service will carry a monthly or annual fee and there is no way I will be able to pay this cost on, so for me i'll have to put InContext Editing on the shelf and let it gather dust.
What a shame!!
27. Re: Pay for InContext ???INIQUITY1 May 9, 2009 4:21 AM (in response to [S]up)
I just have to comment from the other side of the fence... I'm the end user that has had my website controlled by "Web Guys" for years. We are in the night club business & promote weekly events on our site. Over the last 6 years I have not found 1 that can keep up with our needs without it being very costly & frustrating. So you live and you learn... to the point where I took over creating the graphics for the promotions, taking control of the event & gallery uploads, teaching my self to create my own in house DVD promo's, (I'm all Mac & love iLife/iWorks09).
So after the last guy going on vacation for 3 weeks & not able to update the pages I had no access to, I decided to take our website into my control. I had the old CS Suite package but decided to upgrade Photoshop to CS4 & purchased Dreamweaver CS4 as well. I was looking to dive right in to teaching myself the most efficient, simple & economical way to maintain and promote the business thru our website.
Then last week was the first time that I came across InContext! Until I saw this discussion, I was elated that it was part of Dreamweaver. Even had no idea they were going to charge for it... But... looking back on what we have paid thru the years for others maintaining our site & that I am saving close to $26,000 over the next 4 years doing it myself... I would be glad to pay InContext $50 a month to simplify the time it takes to maintain my site so I can spend more time enjoying life! Come on really, as much as you all charge, adding $5, $10, even $20 a month... do you really think your clients will complain if they can update their sites whenever they like, that easily without relying on you?
28. Re: Pay for InContext ???Captain Slocum May 13, 2009 2:41 PM (in response to [S]up)
Like a lot of other people, I have been getting increasinglingly frustrated and alarmed at Adobe's aggressive upgrading policy and so when I saw that they were offering InContext with CS4 I thought - Ah, they are giving us something back for the thousands of pounds we have spent on their products. When I discovered they were going to charge for it, it felt shabby.
I have a reseller account with a company (TSO Host) that provides my customers with cPanel, which has better web page editing facilities, for free, than InContext. Why on earth should I or my customers pay?
Also there is a resistance to monthly charges which a one off fee does not attract. That is why DW extension companies like WebAssist do so well - pay once and use it for ever as many times as you like. OK, I realise server time is involved here, but that psychological barrier is still there. And why pay for someone else's server time when you are already running a server for your clients? Contribute makes more sense.
Including InContext on the splash screen of DW CS4 without making it clear it will have to be paid for eventually is barrow-boy stuff and not what you expect from a company that, lets face it, makes superb software.
DW have dropped a clanger here and I hope they have the sense to either withdraw it or make it free.
29. Re: Pay for InContext ???Moonhowl May 16, 2009 12:19 PM (in response to [S]up)
I must share the disbelief of many people who posted here before me.
As creative suite owner i expected in-context editing to come as a bonus. After checking it seeing how simple it was I was positive it is a bonus, since indeed, there is a lot of advanced and even free quality CMSs out there.
I'm just glad I stumbled upon this post before I connected any of my clients to this feature.
If feature would be WORKING and with minimal bugs, like a normal working feature, I'd be willing to pay a reasonable one-time fee for unlimited use of it. But nothing more than 100 € for a working version of the system as it is now. Since it's quite modest, though with a nice easy to use layout, it's really a very basic system unless i'm missing something.
Anyway, personally I'll rather stick to some alternative. I will check in a while and see what has happened with this adobe's feature.
And yes, the recurring charge per site or even per 5 sites thats just too much hassle if nothing else.
And as people before me pointed the CMS systems are supposed to empower end users and also in the long term relieve them of expenses of site updating by web masters, so this is kinda ridiculous proposal, to be honest, what are you guys at adobe thinking with implementing a recurring charge concept then?
30. Re: Pay for InContext ???JefferyDQ May 16, 2009 3:29 PM (in response to [S]up)
If Adobe chooses to charge for InContext, I definitely will have to drop it. There are other options out there I'm not afraid to use, since I don't want to be nickeled and dimed to death!
31. Re: Pay for InContext ???Tommy Logic May 19, 2009 2:09 PM (in response to [S]up)
Wow.. 1666 views. Can you guys at Adobe put a Poll on here?? I think it would be interesting to weigh the active participants in this form alone and measure the percentage that would actually vote that they would pay.
Maybe put an active poll out for "Publishers & Editors" and see if they would pay if their developer would agree to include this service.
I'm still not seeing any incentive for the developer is my point. Especially those of us that spend a LOT of time working with Adobe to make this BETA "feature" into some sort of into a marketable product.
Why should we even bother??
32. Re: Pay for InContext ???BIG!GFX May 20, 2009 1:29 PM (in response to [S]up)
People are upset that they paid x-amount of dollars for Dreamweaver and will be charged an extra fee to use InContext. But you don't need Dreamweaver to use InContext for a website. Although I paid $1800 for my design premium CS4 I don't use Dreamweaver to create my websites and I've added InContext to two of them with no problems.
Perhaps Adobe should create a system like CushyCMS and offer InContext as a free service and if you want a skinable version then there is a fee, but registered users of Dreamweaver CS4 get a discount.
Seems fair since you can use Cushy for free but have to pay $28/month for a skinable(pro) version.
33. Re: Pay for InContext ???BCDoherty May 20, 2009 2:25 PM (in response to BIG!GFX)
If Adobe have to charge for ICE, they will have to be very careful about the pricing. Whatever they charge I, for one, would have to pass on to my client(s) who would use the service. These times being what they are, it would be very hard to justify charging a client $28/month for work that I could do for them in 5 or 10 minutes.
The common figures that have been given have been $10 - $20/month for 5 sites (presumably any number of users???). This would be $2 - $4 per site per month. Adding additional sites - even if in groups of 5 (say) - at the same rate would be at the outer edge of acceptabilty. For $2/month, I might even consider taking it out of my margin, just for the time it would save me, not to mention how it might please the customer.
Assuming that all went bug-free and worked with all current browsers (and not have to wait 6 months for support for IE8, for instance). And that too seeems to be almost too big an assumption at this time.
34. Bad Businessgreg.dd Jun 16, 2009 6:27 PM (in response to [S]up)
So creating sites using ICE is going to cost me money (since my time is money) because I will have to remove the ICE components and then find something to replace it with and I have to do all this for free because I included it with the quote for the sites. I cant believe it was not in my face that this will be a paid service.
Besides the above issue, people want CMS so they can edit their site themselves for FREE.
35. Bad Businessgreg.dd Jun 16, 2009 6:32 PM (in response to [S]up)
Can someone from Adobe please tell us how long we have to remove and replace ICE on our sites. Will there be a buffer period after the price is announced until we have to start paying?
36. Re: Pay for InContext ???dhoviss Jun 18, 2009 9:57 AM (in response to [S]up)
The Internet web development community took a big hit when Adobe purchased Interakt and ended the life of a very promising product - the KTML editor.
Much of the functionality of KTML is now available from other free CMS systems, and web based HTML editors. I have built many sites using these other systems.
For clients that cannot afford to pay for that kind of custom service, I would like to offer a lower cost option. The web hosting costs are now under 5.00 per month at most ISPs. If the ICE costs a similar amount of money, the client would be looking at a doubling of their cost.
As a custom web site designer, I cannot in good faith provide ICE to my clients because of the following issues;
1. The unknown cost of the product makes this less actractive, and I would rather pay a one time licensing fee (like all the other products from Adobe).
2. The feature set is not mature - there are bugs that need to be resolved, and improvements that need to be made, (Image handling is not functional).
3. There is a a 24 hr time lag on invitations going to clients - that is not acceptable, and brings up the major issue below.
4. This service is dependant on a third party web server and authentication. If there is any problem with the 3rd party then we are all SOL.
I cannot do business relying on an unknown third parties server to always be reliable, and available. That never happens.
Here are my suggestions;
1. Provide web developers with the option to run this on their own server, for a one time fee. A service that run as a DLL or process under IIS and Apache.
2. Provide a license option for a one time fee for x number of sites.
3. Design an option to allow web developers to not need any thier party or server extensions, as a one time fee, plugin for flash / DWCs4 - all that would be needed is a secure framework to allow editors to edit content.
-Daniel Hoviss
Dosolution Inc.
37. Re: Pay for InContext ???sistermaryrc Jun 19, 2009 11:50 PM (in response to dhoviss)
Wow, Im really glad I skimmed this thread before I bought! I had decided early on to pass on CS4 for a while, everything I read and heard indicated it wasn't worth it. Then I read about ICE and was ecstatic. I have smaller clients that it would be so much easier to have this for rather than deal with small updates, etc. I'm so glad I didn't buy it! There's no way I want to chase people around for monthly fees, etc. I'll just skin them up a WordPress or Joomla site for that stuff.
Sucks though, I really thought it'd be cool. I feel bad for the people that used it before Adobe announced this.
38. Re: Pay for InContext ???email@example.com Jun 24, 2009 1:33 AM (in response to [S]up)
This appears to be the model as I see it at present:
Scenario 1
The developer explains in-context editing to the client.
Developer: 'this service is free at the moment but there may be a cost in the future"
Client: 'a one off cost or recurring cost?"
Developer: "sorry I don't know"
Client: 'how much will the cost be?"
Developer: "sorry I don't know"
I rest my case.
Scenario 2
Developer is the the UK and has paid significantly more for the Adobe software than it costs in the USA.
Developer is unable to use in-context editing even if he/she wanted to despite the fact that this was why they bought the product in the first place.
Hmm.. live in UK ... pay more - get less
Message was edited by: Dean Forester
39. Re: Pay for InContext ???gibry21 Jun 24, 2009 4:42 AM (in response to [S]up)
Not really a big one for posting but thought I must share my concerns.
As IT manage for our firm I have recently convinced our whole design team to switch from Quark to Indesign, as well as installing the full the CS4 Design suite across the board, with the addition of implementing InCopy to assist with our work flow....
So well done Adobe...you convinced me and now I convinced them....
However, as with a lot of the Adobe products I am beginning to realise a recurring theme....great advertising.....not so great products....hidden charges, un-finshed products, big promises that are not delivered!
As a web developer I am currently investigating CMS applications, with a limited knowledge of PHP and database's, open source systems such as Joomla and Drupal have yet to draw me in, but having looked a bit closer they have made leaps and bounds on making these systems easier to implement. In addition, simply from reading this post I have been introduced to more CMS systems that are free or very cheap (any more suggestions and advice would be welcomed, email@example.com).
My point: I stumbled across InContext while investigating InCopy workflow, I thought great, I tested it and thought...even better...simple and effective....
then came the catch...


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Campsites filling for Labor Day
Campsites filling for Labor Day
Iowa officials are reminding residents that time is running out to reserve a campsite for the upcoming Labor Day weekend.
The state Department of Natural Resources say campers must make their reservation no later than Wednesday if they want that a campsite with electricity at an Iowa state park. Campers can register online.
Campers who don't register should arrive as early as possible to claim a campsite on a first-come, first served basis.
Officials say flexible campers still have a few options available.


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ageLOC TFEU
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ageLOC® Tru Face® Essence Ultra will help you embrace a youthful looking skin. Formulated with Ethocyn, these uniquely formed capsules also incorporate the power of ageLOC®, a revolutionary anti-ageing scientific technology, which targets the sources of the visible signs of ageing, such as the loss of skin firmness.
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- ageLOC targets the sources of the visible signs of skin ageing and will let you enjoy a firm skin.
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- Increases skin resiliency around the eyes, neck, chin and jawline.
- Helps protect the skin from oxidative stress.
ageLOC Tru Face Essence Ultra should be applied twice daily for optimal results. Include it in your daily regimen, just before the moisturising step. To apply ageLOC Tru Face Essence Ultra, tear open one capsule per use. Gently squeeze two or three drops directly onto the areas of most concern and then apply the remaining product to the entire face and neck. A thin coat of product is all that is necessary to reach the maximum benefits.
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US-China trade tensions and tariffs "on hold"
Fears of a trade war between the US and China - and the threat of US tariffs on imports of Chinese goods - appeared to recede over the weekend after the two sides agreed to resolve their economic and trade concerns.
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The 32nd annual Charleston Boat Show will be Jan. 27-29 at the North Charleston Convention Center.
The Charleston event, sponsored by Mercury Marine, is the Lowcountry's largest boat show and sale.
The region's leading dealers will be on-site to showcase a variety of new model powerboats, including sport cruisers, motor and express yachts, sport fishing boats, center console fishing boats, bass boats, bow riders, deck and aluminum boats, runabouts, bay boats, shallow water flat skiffs and family cruisers.
Exhibitors will feature an extensive assortment of the latest in marine and fishing products including fishing tackle and accessories, marine electronics, boat lifts, dock systems, marine finance and insurance and nautical jewelry and artwork.
Event attractions include:
• The History Channel's Swamp People, the 'gator-hunting team of Trapper Joe and his stepson Trigger Tommy.
• The Coastal Fishing Expo, which provides a variety of seminars, demonstrations and one-on-one discussions with local experts for anglers of all skill levels.
• The S.C. Department of Natural Resources fishing simulator.
• The U.S. Coast Guard boating safety trailer.
The Charleston Boat Show is sponsored by Mercury Marine and hosted by the Tri-County Marine Trade Association.
Show hours are noon to 6 p.m. Friday, Jan. 27; 10 a.m. to 6 p.m. Saturday, Jan. 28; and 11 a.m. to 5 p.m. Sunday, Jan. 29.
Tickets are $8 for adults ($5 on Friday), $5 for military and $3 for children under 12. Parking is free.
For more information, visit www.TheCharlestonBoatShow.com.


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Posted 8 years ago
(2 items)
These boots have gone places and have stories to tell that we can only image.It is a part of the true Cowboy history. They are stll in great shape just lets us know how well they were made back then.
My great uncle says that they called them the "Poor Man's Boot" back then.
I am so excited I am going to get a 1800's Cowboy Hat from my uncle's friend, as soon as I do I will share that with all of you.


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Grace1 needed a new logo design and created a contest on 99designs.
A winner was selected from 321 designs submitted by 57 freelance designers.
Good Shepherd Church
Good Shepherd United Methodist Church, http://www.gsumc.org is a modern, evangelical congregation located in suburban Charlotte, North Carolina.
The church currently averages over 1500 people in three Sunday worship services. Good Shepherd is known throughout the region for its innovative worship, broad outreach, and racially & ethnically diverse population.
The church's rallying cry is Walking Together. As the people of the church walk towards Christ-likeness, they measure their progress according to five "milestones": filling, growing, serving, loving, and inviting. The staff and leaders base all programming on the Walking Together milestones. The people of the church have found this simple, focused model to be an effective means of harnessing energy and creativity.
While modern in its approach to worship and ministry, Good Shepherd holds strongly to ancient beliefs and doctrines. We need a new, fresh logo that reflects our dynamic church.
Our target audience is international and diverse. Our community includes people from all walks of life, a range of ages and life experiences. The logo does not need to look old, or young, hip or traditional, urban or suburban - we are all of those things here!
simple and bold
forward thinking and modern
must tranlate well in both black and white as well as color
a vector format (Photoshop or Illustrator)
Text should say:
Good Shepherd Church, or
Good Shepherd Church: A United Methodist Community
do not want:
t's made into crosses
stylized people with hands up or in a circle
stereotypical churchy feel
no flowers
Find out how a design contest works or learn more about our logo design services.


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While fashion month is all about what's new, it's just as much about what's stayed the same in the industry. And, some of the best presentations know how to marry the two. Such was the case with yesterday's Chanel presentation. Karl Lagerfeld kept classic Chanel in mind with tweed skirt suits and pearls aplenty. Collarless jackets were boxy and badass, and garments surprised us with peekaboo linings and feathery (literally) details.
The storied fashion house also took new shape, as well, particularly in lovely tiered jumpsuits (and also one strapless dress resembling the back of our favorite pair of jeans, which didn't quite hit the mark). However, it was the accessories that had the ultimate go-big-or-go-home attitude. Hats' circumferences spread far and wide, leather gloves were cut off for an edge, pearl necklaces
doubled quadrupled in size, and, yes, handbags were given hula-hoop-sized handles.
Lagerfeld's Chanel, once again, left us surprised and at the edge of our (desk) seats. Incredibly modern yet iconic, fanciful but also fowl, it was the perfect, eclectic mix that helps draw fashion month to a close. Check out some of the highlights ahead.


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Note: This item is included with nine others in the Various Happy Interface Sounds Pack. Further information about each item can be found in the links listed on that page.
"Pop Ripple Alert" is a sound effect created using a popping digital click sound ascending several octaves while being filtered through a short delay effect. This sample would be ideal for use in software menu interfaces and more.
Thanks for listening.


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I'll never forget October 2009. I had just returned to campus at Boston College following several months abroad in Argentina. My boyfriend from that time was making the ages-old pilgrimage to Machu Picchu – now one of the ten wonders of the world. The immense joy of that moment was instantly sapped when, days later, I received the news: he was HIV-positive.
Being more than 8,000 miles away and on the receiving end of the phone unable to give him a hug was one of the most painful moments I've ever experienced. I had read my friend Larry Kramer's masterworks, Faggots and The Normal Heart, and I was well-versed in my history of the plague that demolished his generation. But it wasn't until that very moment, when someone my own age was diagnosed with HIV, that I felt the weight of a world torn apart by HIV and AIDS.
Frank's image could have filled the pages of any magazine. He was young and just beginning his career in government. It broke my heart knowing that this diagnosis was preventable. An act of love with a trusted partner changed his life in an instant.
At the time, Frank would have been representative of the hardest-hit population by HIV today in America: young, non-white men. To put it into perspective, 87 percent of new HIV cases among men ages 13 to 24 are among men of color.
It begs the question, why isn't this making front page headlines? Sadly, it seems that in 2014, stigma remains rampant in America. The masses are caring less and less about a disease whose demographics are increasingly focused on people of color, people struggling with homelessness and poverty, and other marginalized populations. We constantly envision an "HIV and AIDS free world." But if transmission rates continue to rise among youth, how is this possible?
These alarming statistics will only be reversed if we take the time to engage with youth in real ways. The abstinence-only education model failed our nation, as double-digit increases in youth HIV transmission rates make clear. To no surprise, young people have and always will have sex, and realistic sex education is necessary. However, while we can talk about behavioral issues all that we want, attitude adjustment and behavioral modification alone are incomplete and ineffective.
Structural drivers and social determinants, such as poverty, homelessness, racism, lack of access to healthcare and trauma and intimate partner violence are better predictors of the epidemic. We need to address these issues among our youth in addition to teaching them about safe sex. If we encourage youth to think about HIV/AIDS as part of a larger picture of the disparities that exist in the U.S., we will reach them in more meaningful ways than just letting them know safe sex is a good idea.
After all, why is the HIV rate higher among youth of color? Youth of color are at a higher risk for HIV even when they have fewer "risk behaviors" than white youth simply because they are more likely to be impacted by these structural barriers than white youth.
Bailey House reaches out to marginalized youth through our now expanding STARS (Success Through Accessing Rental Assistance and Support) program, the largest supportive housing program for HIV-positive youth in New York City. STARS provides stable housing to 50 formerly homeless young people, many of them LGBTQ, who are living with HIV/AIDS and struggling to overcome mental illness and/or substance abuse. We connect each individual to life-saving medical care and independent living skills training, transforming vulnerable people in crisis into stable, safe and thriving adults.
But the work doesn't stop inside Bailey House. An HIV and AIDS-free generation won't be realized if we aren't recruiting a new contingent of activists, leaders and philanthropists to carry on the work my late uncle Rodger McFarlane began when he took the helm of Gay Men's Health Crisis at a mere 27 years old.
The future starts with my generation, and that's why I'm working with our CEO Gina Quattrochi to better include youth and young adults in the current HIV/AIDS narrative in this country. It's time for my peers to have a more open and engaged dialogue about some of the topics we tackle on a daily basis at Bailey House: homelessness, poverty, mental health. It's only through increased communication that the walls of stigma can truly be broken.
I believe I will see a world without HIV and AIDS in my lifetime, and I look forward to a day where National HIV and AIDS Awareness Day will be something for the history books. Small steps toward this goal can be made on an individual level. The more we empower youth, the more they will make caring decisions in regards to their health and the health of their communities. Along those lines, I leave you with these words of wisdom from the Jesuit theologian Pedro Arrupe:
"Nothing is more practical than … falling in a love in a quite absolute, final way. What you are in love with, what seizes your imagination will affect everything. It will decide what will get you out of bed in the mornings, what you will do with your evenings, how you spend your weekends, what you read, who you know, what breaks your heart, and what amazes you with joy and gratitude. Fall in love, stay in love, and it will decide everything."
Joseph Neese is an LGBT activist and journalist, who is on the Board of Directors of Bailey House and The Tyler Clementi Foundation, where he works specifically with issues affecting youth and young adults. Joseph works in Human Resources for the NBCUniversal News Group, supporting NBC News, msnbc and CNBC. He is the nephew of the late LGBT and HIV/AIDS trailblazer Rodger McFarlane.
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DEAR FOLKS OF FT AND POOR THREAD CREATOR WHO IS FORCED TO CHANGE MY SPECIES EVERY COUPLE OF MONTHS:I've come to the conclusion that I cannot draw my own fursona, and have not been able to for the past few months. This is not good. So, it is with little consideration and A Little Help from My Friends that I have decided on another, and hopefully, final fursona change.Sexeh Pharaoh Hound. I think that can be filed under dog?
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Eric Dane and his wife Rebecca Gayheart take their cutie pie daughters Billie and Georgia to a birthday party on Sunday (March 17) in Los Angeles.
The 40-year-old actor and his 41-year-old wife watched on as Billie, 3, and Georgia, 14 months, rode on a pony at the outdoor bash!
PHOTOS: Check out the latest pics of Eric Dane
Rebecca has a movie coming out this year called G.B.F., which also stars Andrea Bowen, Sasha Pieterse, Evanna Lynch, and Megan Mullally. Be on the lookout for the comedy, which has no set release date.


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Our Services
- ADA Inclusion Center
- Adult Sports & Enrichment
- Aquatics
- Boating
- Camps
- Community Gardening
- Cultural Arts Programs
- Discovery Centers
- Dog Play Areas
- Golf
- Joaquin Miller Park
- Lake Merritt
- Oakland City Stables
- Parks
- Recreation Centers and Facilities
- Rental Facilities
- Rotary Nature Center
- Sponsors & Partners
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Our Upcoming Events
Joaquin Miller Park
Enter Joaquin Miller Park and you will quickly forget that you are minutes away from the hustle and bustle of the city. Hikers, equestrians, bicyclists, joggers and picnickers from all over the Bay Area regularly frequent the 500-acre park.
The rustic woodland trails lead you through redwood groves and oak woodlands and across lush creeksides and wet meadows. Dogs are allowed - on leash - throughout the park and a fenced off-leash dog areas for both large and small dogs is available on park property. Park facilities are available for weddings, picnics, large group gatherings and special events.
Come explore the wonders of Oakland's urban wildlands!
Visit the Joaquin Miller Park Ranger Station (3590 Sanborn Dr., Oakland, CA 94602) for park history, wildlife exhibits, upcoming events, a landline telephone and more!
See below for history, emergency information, park rules and guidelines, reservation information, trail map, wildlife and how to get involved in the park.
Joaquin Miller, The Man
The park is named for one of the more colorful figures of the 19th century. Cincinnatus Hiner ("Joaquin") Miller was born in Indiana in 1841 and during his life he was a pony-express rider, lawyer, judge, teacher, gold prospector, nomad and author.
During a trip to the Bay Area in 1870, he met California's first Poet laureat and Oakland's first librarian, Ina Coolbirth. Coolbirth convinced him to take the colorful pen name of Joaquin Miller. He became well known as the "Poet of the Sierras."
When he returned to Oakland in 1886, he settled on 70 acres of grassy hillside, which he had purchased parcel-by-parcel in the hills about the "City of the Oaks." In an effort to create an inspirational artists' retreat, he erected monuments, built structures for his mother and daughter, and coordinated the planting of 75,000 trees -- monterey cypress, olive and eucalyptus. He died in his home in 1913.
Issues and Emergencies within the Park
In case of emergency or maintenance issues in the park, please use the phone numbers listed below.
|Emergency (Landline)
|Emergency (Cellphone)
|(510) 777-3211
|Non-Emergency (Cellphone)
|(510) 777-3333
|Public Works Agency (Park Maintenance Issues)
|(510) 615-5566
|Wildlife Issues
|(510) 238-3739
Please help the City of Oakland maintain this beautiful parkland by submitting maintenance issues within the park.
Park Rules and Guidelines
PARK HOURS The park is closed from dusk to dawn except for events authorized by Park Use Permit. For a Park Use Permit, please call (510) 238-4718.
PARK CLOSURES Observe area and seasonal closures (Oakland Municipal Code). See Also: Red Flag Days.
RED FLAG DAYS - During the East Bay fire season visitors to the park should be alert to Red Flag warnings. Fire season generally runs between May through October. On Red Flag Days, the park and its rental facilities may be closed to all visitors due to the high risk of fire. Please observe posted notices.
MOTORIZED VEHICLES - Motorized vehicles may be operated only on designated public access streets and parking lots.
CLEAN UP AFTER YOURSELF - Littering is subject to a fine (California Penal Code).
NO COLLECTING - It is unlawful to remove trees, plants, fungi or animals from the park. No collecting within the park.
TRAIL USE - Joaquin Miller Park features both wide and narrow multi-use natural trails. For safety, bicyclists yield to horses and hikers; equestrians yield to hikers.
STAY ON TRAILS - Please protect park soil from erosion and conserve native plants and wildlife by staying on named trails.
ON-LEASH DOGS ONLY - Joaquin Miller Park is an ON-LEASH ONLY park on trails and parkland areas (Oakland Municipal Code). Dogs are allowed off-leash at the fenced Dog Play Area located on Sanborn in the park.
PICNIC SITES - Unless in possession of a Permit or Reservation, picnic sites are available on a first-come, first-served basis. For Reservations or Permits, please call (510) 238-4718.
FIRE USE - No fires within the park, except for charcoal fires on City-provided barbeque pits. Thoroughly extinguish your fire before leaving the picnic site.
WEAPONS OR FIREWORKS - No weapons or fireworks permitted.
Park Reservations
Picnics, weddings, special events, summer camp trips, tv and film, meetings, facility rentals and more.
Rental Information and Complete Packet:
Joaquin Miller Park
Wildlife, Plants and Fungi
The redwoods in Joaquin Miller Park are considered to be one of the few Redwood forests to flourish today in an urban setting. Most notably, native Coast Redwoods (sequoia sempervirens) grow throughout the park. Many are in the second or third growth following major logging in the late 1800s and early 1900s when the redwoods were used to help build Oakland, San Francisco and other booming cities of the time. Of the thousands of trees planted under Joaquin Miller's leadership, many still stand today.
The park contains a variety of representative central coastal range habitats, hot open hillsides, cool redwoods groves, oak woodlands, lush creeksides and wet meadows. The park is home to over 200 species of native plants. There are rare plants like the Oakland star tulip, pallid manzanita and leatherwood alongside such non-natives as fennel, acacia and eucalyptus. California's state grass, purple needlegrass, and the state flower, the California golden poppy, are abundant in the serpentine grasslands.
Walk gently and discover elusive wildlife. Towhees, scrub jays, Cooper's hawks, wild turkeys, California quail, lizards, gopher snakes, or perhaps even a gray fox, deer or skunk all take advantage of this altered, but healthy habitat.
Park and Trail Map
View or Download the Joaquin Miller Park Trail Map (PDF).
"Hike Among Redwoods in the Oakland Hills" - 7x7 magazine
Get Involved in the Park
Visit the organizations or groups that help make Joaquin Miller what it is today!
Friends of Joaquin Miller Park
Oakland Parks and Recreation Foundation
Bicycle Trails Council of the East Bay
Volunteers for Outdoor California
Insect Sciences Museum of California
Metropolitan Horsemen's Association
Alameda County Historical Society
Chabot Space and Science Center


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Garry Shider -- Rest in P-Funk
The world woke up a little less funky this morning. Parliament-
I'll always remember Garry fondly, having been lucky enough to share the most bizarre car ride of my life with him. See, my big brother worked for P-Funk for a decade beginning in the '90s. So late one night, well after a show at the Ogden theater in Denver, my brother asked me, 17 at the time, if I'd give one of his friends a ride to his hotel. My mom, a friend, Garry and I piled into my Honda CRX and off we went. Garry, sitting shotgun, was sweet as could be, thanking me for the ride and asking if us ladies wanted to accompany him to breakfast. It was about 3 a.m. and I really just wanted to go to sleep. Besides, there's not much to eat at that hour, but musicians don't really run on the same time schedule as the rest of us people.
Because Garry was the first person outside of my family to ride in that car, which I'd bought earlier that same day, I always remembered him. In fact, he called me "Sugar," a name I passed along to the car.
Because I was in high school and only kind of cool, I'd only known Garry as the guy who wore the diaper on-stage. I tried to be cool and not let him know that I was scared to death/ in awe of him. Fortunately, I'm pretty sure he was drunk, and, looking back on it, probably used to teenagers trying way too hard in his presence.
Though I never got the chance to meet Garry again, my brother, who quit working for P-Funk a few years ago, has stayed part of the family, flying to New York not long ago, when Garry was rushed to the hospital to say his goodbyes.
In the last few weeks the members of the Mothership have been working on a few benefits to pay for Garry's care (this is a good time for us all to remember that, though P-Funk is iconic, they're not exactly rolling around in stacks of money). Though Garry left the Earth last night, his family is still faced with bills. The Garry Shider Medical Fund has been set up in conjunction with an organization called Sweet Relief, a non-profit charity that offers help to musicians without medical insurance.
Paypal donations to Garry's fund will be split 80/20 with Sweet Relief to help other musicians in their time of need.
Since Garry got sick a benefit album of fan tracks has been in the works as well and will be available, hopefully next week--depending on funeral services--at the Medical Fund site as well as Citradelic.com.
Rest in Peace funky brother!