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That Bright Halo Illumination
Erik Sine posted a topic in General Message BoardMaybe I should have titled it "That BrightON Halo Illumination" Thought I would share a project where our new High-End 24 volt, .8watt BrightON II LED Modules were used. As I've discussed before in the past. There is a difference and a gap between "Usable Light" and "Competitive Light". The BrightON II is the most efficient (Light per power) LED Module in it's class, and it is the definition of Competitive Light. As explained here and suggested for spacing, it was chosen to use the 3" module spacer, and obviously you'll see as you scroll down the spacing could have even been much farther apart. Using the 3" spacers or 5" on center module to module spacing of the .8 watt will give you that extra punch for Halo and Day / Night faces, and you're looking at only $2 a foot buying a single bag of modules. Important note is what you're getting for that $2 a foot. Very easily module to module spacing could have been 7" OC, and a $1.45 a foot. The Grand Result? No over exposure here to make the lighting more extreme than "IRL"...in real life. because I have another picture to share here of a neighboring sign that is made up of your standard front illuminated channel letters. This is the very visual explanation of "Competitive Light". The BrightON II Modules will give sign shops more versatility with their lighting projects, eliminating a 3 diode module & eliminating stocking more various modules with just simple spacing making the BrightON II a more universal product in your shop. The reason? Because the BrightON II meets or exceeds the Performance of most 3 diode LED Modules on the market on Maximum Efficiency of 24V. Also, the long module to module wire leads. Could you just imagine for a second the BrightON II LED modules in the neighboring Coffee Sign at the maximum stretched module to module spacing of 7.625" or 1.57 ($1.33 a foot) modules per foot? I can! Something is being left out here and I have to discuss what completes this High-End system? That would be adding a France Lighting Solution LED Power supply of course In this case the 24V France Atlas with built in LED indicator light for proper function, bringing more Quality & Dependability to the project. The most important aspect of this job was the feedback from the client. They were VERY impressed with their sign when they drove by at night to see what their identity looked like. Their face will be your face. These are the types of results you will get with the BrightON II LED Modules. Finished jobs will sell themselves. Happy, impressed clients will sell, and market for you...provided you not only sold them a good product but good service as well. Come night, the mere visual can attract potential customers and a resume address can assure and close sales prospects, end results will be referral makers! FRANCE LED POWER SUPPLIES http://www.thesignsyndicate.com/forums/index.php?/store/category/22-led-power-supplies/
LED System Dependability & Reliability
Erik Sine posted a topic in General Message BoardWe always strive on information here on The Sign Syndicate. Everything from National Sign & Subcontractor Reviews on "payments & relationships" to "How To"...better ways to build sign systems and projects based on longevity & reliability . So, we're very, VERY excited (I want to say "Super Excited" but it's so over used) to announce our whole new upcoming Sign Syndicate 24V BrightON (Pronounced like the city) LED system just got even better. Better because we will be complimenting our High Powered, High Efficient LED Module system with France Lighting Solutions 24V LED Drivers. I have talked about France products quite a bit here over the years, mainly when it comes to Neon. The quality, that high bar of standards, most importantly....the "Reliability". From Neon to LED Power Supplies, expect nothing different, nothing less from France Lighting Solutions. But, actually here is something different about their LED Drivers, something "Cool". The France LED Drivers are the ONLY drivers that are "True Power". What is "True Power"? In short......It means they are the ONLY LED driver in the electric sign industry that you can load to the MAX. Not the typical load to 80% - 85% leaving room for voltage loss, wiring etc. Load to MAX.....if you want. We are just a month away from releasing the Sign Industries most light/power efficient LED Module on the market that will definitely put it's mark on this industry. You'll be able to get the most light for very little cost of operation. Get more for less.....be on a 24V system which give sign shops the unique ability to load more modules on a single power supply. A 24V system is half the amperage and reduces the heat, resistance, that run across the wiring and modules compared to a 12V system, improving reliability of your LED Lighting System. With a 24V system you're not restricted to 60 Watts per channel, BUT 96 Watts.....that's almost double! Complimenting our new LED System with France's "True Power" LED Drivers and adding them to your electric sign projects you'll be able to load 120 .8w BrightON 2 LED modules. That's 76.25 Linear feet of high powered LED modules for anything from everyday channel letters to cabinet & perimeter lighting. For our High Powered Sign Cabinet Lighting module, BrightON SunFire (3w), that France "True Power" LED Driver will give you up to 32 Linear Feet for your Sign Cabinets France Lighting Solutions DRV24100E Dry & Damp Location France Lighting Solutions DRV24100A Dry, Damp & WET Location Those Sign Face Foot Candle numbers!!! Look at the "Foot Candles Per Watt" (Higher is better) Our complete High Powered High Efficient BrightON LED System with France Lighting Solutions, that's DOUBLE reliability!!! Now Available!!! France "True Power" 24V LED Power Supplies http://www.thesignsyndicate.com/forums/index.php?/store/category/22-led-power-supplies/
The Sign Syndicate's New BrightON LED
Erik Sine posted a topic in General Message BoardSo, we finally did it. It's been kicked around for months, prototypes, after prototypes and locked in on a configuration that we finally liked. As most of you know the Sign Syndicate we've been testing majority of the main stream LED's since 2008 in a unbiased benchmark comparison, tests such as "The Great White Hope....Project Tighty Whitey...Red Light District...Border Security & Blue Light Special". Over that time we've seen some characteristics that we liked, made sense, understood what will last and won't. What it means to be a High-End LED product. We have sold the NC LED's & Axioms for a few years now, as some of our favorites from the testing (Axioms no longer). But it's been time to do our own, make it more custom and more perfect for the Sign Industry. The Brighton line is made from those in the Sign Industry.....FOR the Sign Industry. It's BrightON, pronounced just like the city. So what so unique about the Brighton? For starters, we wanted it to be VERY efficient. I don't know of another more bright and efficient LED module in it's class. 155 lum/W and 124lum with a 170˙ Batwing optic lens, most importantly when it comes the sign industry the important number is 63.09 Foot Candles on a sign face per Watt The important aspects of long lasting LEDs is of course finding the "sweet spot", where it's driven just perfect for light and power. The Brighton is VERY under driven, less power, MORE light! These can be spaced out pretty far due to the optics lens, it's brighter in angles than it is straight on, or up. Under driving improves thermal performance, which extends life all while getting higher Lumens per watt. The Brighton LED is a High-End, High Performance LED module for High-End applications. For starters off the bat we will have a 2 Diode, (no need for a 3 Diode), 4 Diode, and our Sign Cabinet model 6 Diode (SunFire). Shops won't need to stock multiple module types, the Brighton-2 is so versatile, you can use it for almost anything, just adjust the spacing. It already comes with 7" inches of wire so jumping from one row to another is easy. Space the center to center at 6" for good light, 5" center for Better Light, 4" for Best Light. They're 1.7 mods/foot and work good for shallow 2" applications depending on face type to of course much deeper. Since these are driven so low, they don't generate a whole lot of heat, BUT, our Brighton-6 (2.8w) is Heatsinked on all Aluminum PCB for longer life. One of the biggest complaints we have received about LEDs when it comes to large projects like large letters or cabinets is......"We have to use so MANY Power Supplies!" A nice aspect about the Brighton is, it's a whole 24v system! Everything! As sign companies we are redistricted by the Class II regulation of no larger than 5A per channel. So 12v is restricted to 60watts, BUT....24v is restricted to 96watts. 24v will mean more modules per power supply. You're now getting almost double the amount of modules for a project. 24V cuts that amperage that runs across the wiring and module in half! It reduces the resistance, reduces the heat and most importantly IMPROVES reliability. I think we can all agree that LESS is BETTER, less moving parts, the less you have to worry. This is the first part of our Brighton Line, we'll continue to improve it widening the line and of course always always staying far ahead of the curve I'm including some rough test pics of our process and how they fair. We should have these available in the first part of Fall. And yes, we will still stock, and continue to sell NC LED Reckless LED Early Try Out's, various wattage and diode mfg's FRANCE LED POWER SUPPLIES http://www.thesignsyndicate.com/forums/index.php?/store/category/22-led-power-supplies/
Competition Light NOT "Usable Light" As some of you may already know The Sign Syndicate has been testing NC LEDs since 2010 in Project Tighty Whitey, The Red Light District, & Blue Light Special and after the first 8,000 hours I was pretty impressed in "PTW", even in that short about of time we saw no light degradation (Lumen Maintenance). So I was always interested to see how they progressed, err....regressed in light as time went on. As many of you know, I don't use LEDs as a primary light source for channel letters unless I have too. When I have had to use LEDs over the years I've always been real careful about what LED manufacturer I use, and there is a VERY, VERY short list of who I use/used because I'm one of the few electric sign manufacturers that offers my clients a 5 year electrical "Worry Free" warranty that INCLUDES labor to change any electrical component out and I stress....."I"...chose to use for their sign. For this very reason you can pretty much chuck most LED marketing brochures in the garbage that states their LED's last 50,000+ hours of operation without loosing any light output. Most of the time they've never even tested their own to see how long they last of they take a result of 2 to 5 thousand hours and project to you the consumer those results which usually show little to none and project them in a slow gradual path of light loss. You can't do that that with LED's, but you can when it comes to light degradation with Neon & Fluorescents who have a much larger case history to go off of and it's just phosphor loss unlike LEDs which have so much more to loose. Most sign shops stick to the 1 year state mandatory (contractors licensing law) warranty, and "optional" or limited component warranty that does NOT include labor for up to 5 years. So should some component YOU chose crap out on your client then I guess they call you, you get a free replacement from the manufacturer and YOU end up charging YOUR client to replace something YOU specified out.....oh real nice!!! With my clients I put my money where my mouth is, so that's why my list of who to use is short, if it goes bad because of what I specified out I eat it, NOT my client!!! 5 years is a long time, and those who pay attentions to the 3rd party testing that The Sign Syndicate has been doing since 2008 knows most LEDs don't last as long as claimed, at least when it comes to "usable" light. I've been using NC LED for a particular program for a few years now where I have to use LEDs because the use of electrical component clearance is impossible for Neon. Over the years the results have been awesome using NC LED, and of course happy clients. The main reason why I choose to use NC LED for my program before we even started selling it here which is obviously recent, is because from the testing we have been doing here namely Project Tighty Whitey as it applies here.....there are a few things in common the brighter white LEDs in the comparison that last longer than others have in common. 1st....Their made in Korea, very tight quality control, think "Japan"!.......NOT China where they have quality control issues. Don't let anyone tell you different, there is too much of a track record and case history for INCONSISTENCY and manufacturers have to constantly hold the hand of the Chinese to make sure they're getting consistency and this is why American companies play musical chairs with Chinese plants who make their products. 2nd....Their constant current, or current regulated on each module...NOT constant voltage aka "Eco". So if you're not familiar with that term Constant Current just know each module is 12 volts from the first to the last on a string. A LED module that is ...NOT CC is constant voltage, aka "Eco"! Those are unregulated and the first LED module on a string is different than the LED on the last, or middle. It also means the first LED on the string could be taking a big hit from the power supply because it's not regulated and you'll get faster degradation as well as uneven lighting. CONSTANT CURRENT vs CONSTANT VOLTAGE This is not to say others that aren't with similar characteristics will last nearly as long (there have been exceptions), in past versions degradation over 15,000 hours or 5 sign years is left on 8 hours a day has been about 0 to 3% of the original illumination, that's something that should interest you and the end user, and newer versions only get better with heat dissipation. NC LED come with three different diode manufacturers, SOL, LG, & Samsung ("Reckless"). I took a personal hand for us to use SAMSUNG, their white is brighter than the other configurations, it's more of a true 6500 white, and you need bright! The LED colors that we stock are SOL chip. Every LED manufacturer has their marketing claims on Lumens, Viewing Angle, Lens..no lens, etc etc etc. From the Neon & LED testing we have been doing here on the Sign Syndicate they can throw all that out the window because it doesn't translate into anywhere when it comes to the sign industry, how we use them, and how it makes them last over time. 90% of the time it's just a sales pitch to throw at you on why you should buy their over another one. Who cares about Lumens when it comes to signs...we light up a sign face and only care about surface light! Viewing angle??? Don't get me started! What do we care about being in the sign industry? That it's bright, and most importantly it lasts over time....well...at least the client does more so than the sign sign shop because it's them who will have to pay to re-retrofit to something else. So, we're very happy to offer the NC LED "Reckless" light source product to our members that we know works as an option for your sign projects here on The Sign Syndicate. It's nice to add another High Brightness LED to our line up, AND the Reckless-2 is the brightest LED in it's class of under 1 watt per module and under 3 watts per foot than anything on the market today! If you're the type of shop that just likes to stick to big name LED manufacturers because you think you're playing it safe and you're also not too familiar with the testing The Sign Syndicate has been doing since 2008 let me just say this. From all the testing we have been doing with out benchmark testing, and we've talked about it a lot in the past. You pay a lot of money to big name LED manufacturers and the product itself is most of the time is average and most a lot of times subpar compared to what's out there from a few small select LED manufacturers. You pay a lot and you get very little. What I mean by that is, you don't get a whole lot of light in return and you could pay significantly less and get a brighter light output and a product that will even last longer. Not all big names, but you'll have to download the quarterly results that we have in the Board forum and judge for yourself. Like I said, there are VERY good results from a FEW select companies in Project Tighty Whitey and NC LED is one of those few, AND that's why I'm very proud to offer it to our members. Why leave money on the table choosing someone else and why not have a more satisfied client using NC LED? NC LEDs come in both forms, Constant Current "Reckless" as well as Constant Voltage "Eco"(ECO Series), we will be concentrating on the Constant Current versions of these LEDs Basic NC LED Specs • IP68 • 5 Year, 50,000 Hour Warranty • Constant Current (Regulated) not Constant Voltage like cheaper "eco" LEDs • Made in Korea.....NOT made in China • High Brightness LEDs • Samsung Diodes for white • Sol Diodes for color As I stated above, we're offering 100 of the most versatile NC LED "Reckless" Modules which is the two diode Samsung configuration, the Reckless-2 powered by Samsung for only $79.99 Specification Cut Sheets (Updated 4/25/16) NC SS Brochure.pdf Lastly I need to mention that I power up these bad boys with our also Korean made LED Power Supplies by Union Elecom So if you're burning out those cheap import Chinese LED power supplies, (even the so called "Engineered In America...Made In China.." type) and you can't figure out why after loading your power supply to a safe 50 watts on your 60 watt power supply which REALLY may only be able to handle a 40 watt load because of make, convection cooling, and due to the environment in which it's in you might want to get a hold of their derating curve chart and see what your product may be able to handle. Plastic power supplies = NOT good. So....we now stock the Union Elecom Class II, Listed, 60 watt and 120 watt (Dual channel) LED Power Supplies. These LED Power Supplies are IP68, and fitted with 1/2" nipples so you can simply hook up the primary with a junction box that has 1/2" thread knock-outs so you don't need a Transformer Box to house your power supply for remote installs. Again, why Union Elecom if you're not familiar with the name or company? First, their Korean, that means high quality standards. This is what they do, this is what they do best....they make power supplies.....solely! Unlike some other companies who offer power supplies but it's not their primary focus, they really make LEDs or other products as their primary. They just "offer" a power supply to go with their LED's. THAT can be bad and as we all know, we've seen plenty of failure on the field whr we have to come back and replace over and over again! UNION ELECOM LED POWER SUPPLY Members can purchase these LEDs by phone (858) 880-1400, emailing us firstname.lastname@example.com or use our online Shopping Cart LINK
The White Horse NC LED
Erik Sine posted a topic in General Message BoardTHE WHITE HORSE NC LED Our White Horse NC LED is our Flag Ship wide angle 160˙ LED module for shallow, low profile, and general lighting projects. Shallow Lobby Signs, Channel Letters, Reverse Channel Letters, & Cabinet Lighting. The White Horse comes in both .92 watt (186 Lumen/ft) & .72 watt (150 Lumen/ft) high powered light output LED modules, both are constant current and high grade Samsung diodes. The White Horse is a high quality, low cost component for a lot of your Sign & Lighting applications. 100 modules per tray will give you 42 Linear feet of lighting • 160˙ Wide Angle LED Module • Shallow Projects, Sign Cabinet Lighting, & Channel Letters • IP68 UL/CE • 5 Year, 50,000 Hour Warranty • High Brightness Light Output • Constant Current NOT Constant Voltage • NOT Made in CHINA If you already like and use our Reckless NC LED Line, you'll LOVE these! 3" Depth Lobby Sign with Bright & Consistent Lighting (.92w Modules) To Place an order Online visit our Online Shopping Cart. Lower priced Discounts to our Sign Syndicate Patron's (The Order) For Inquiries, Questions, or to place Orders over the phone or email contact us at 858.880.1400 / email@example.com
Getting Replaced
Erik Sine posted a topic in General Message BoardHad a customer send this to us by email, maybe they'll chime in a tell us more but... It's simple, they're replacing cheap plastic LED power supplies made in CHINA with better quality, better thermal cooling LED Power Supplies...OUR Union Korean Made LED Power Supplies. Our 60 watt (displayed above) is IP68, Recognized by UL as Class II (SAM) and for Wet Location. These are versatile, you can use in a box or sign structure, or use externally. Most importantly you can breath easy when your UL Inspector surprises you with a visit and sees these units, including our 120watt version which is one of the few approved and listed in the SAM The cheap plastic Chinese LED Power Supplies by Principal LED & others are great for areas that have good cooling like external fans or for your kids school science projects but not in closed areas where ventilation is not great. The "cheapies" are attractive for the price at $12 or less, but not great for consumers who have to pay the service bill of a crane and labor to replace because as professionals we know these only last for short periods of time. "Buy the best and only cry once"
Ridding Chinese LED Failure
Erik Sine posted a topic in General Message BoardAfter so many re--re-retrofit jobs using failing or inferior Chinese LED products it's time to just cut their cord, untwist the wire connectors and disconnect the problem and replace with a superior LED product NOT made in CHINA!!! And of course I'm talking about our "Reckless" LED line by NC LED. This is one of those jobs where the client was sold on "Energy Efficiency" and "Saving" over Neon, which was the light source on their previous Channel Letter set. Well....after the original signs company who installed this set pulling out the original JS LED modules, replacing with their newer, then another company replacing the individual JS LED failures with another Chinese LED.....JT LED modules. Those savings turned into high Sign Repair costs and headache for repairs needed quite often for these Highway viewable signs that leaves this establishment a black eye. With all the benchmark testing we have done here on the Sign Syndicate we know what the Chinese LED modules measure up, and what we can expect from our NC Reckless LED's. Constant Current NOT Constant Voltage, Brighter true white 6500K and most importantly high quality standards because their NOT made in CHINA. End result, Brighter and Even illumination at night and NO return trips for a Loooooong time. Eventually and soon, all these letters will have to be replaced because the catastrophic failure is coming! UH OH REPLACING CHINA FOR MORE CHINA REPLACING CHINA WITH OUR NC RECKLESS LED'S. LESS MODULES AND BIGGER SPACING FAILING CHINESE LED LIGHTING (BEFORE) RENEW WITH NC RECKLESS LED'S (AFTER) HARD TO SHOW WITH A IPHONE SHOT, BUT IN REAL TIME THE DIFFERENCE IS DRASTIC. THERE IS ONE OTHER LETTER RETROFIT FROM OVER A YEAR AGO USING OUR RECKLESS....CAN YOU FIND IT? THIS LOGO HAS NEVER LOOKED THIS BRIGHT BEFORE YES, OUR AD. A Lot of our sales come from Sign Shops who's products have failed them in the past, and they've never been happier since making the switch to our NC Reckless LED line. Less hassle, their now more confident in the end products they sell, and their customers are excited about the Bright finished product that displays their identity / branding at night. For more Product info on our Reckless LED line: http://www.thesignsyndicate.com/forums/index.php?/forums/topic/7353-bright-long-lasting-channel-letters-and-what-it-takes/ For all Sales & Inquiry you can contact us at (858) 880-1400, or by email email@example.com
Utter Reckless Sign Making
Erik Sine posted a topic in General Message BoardUtter Reckless Sign Making Got an opportunity to fabricate and install a reverse pan channel letter sign using the Reckless NC LED lines that we carry. Unlike most LED's on the market that are Constant Voltage, made in CHINA....unregulated, and short life for whites and especially color LED's OURS are ALL Constant Current, long life and of course rated for IP68...not that that was needed for this....but nice to have an know! Here we used our Yellow/Amber, Red, and our Reckless High Powered White (Amazing 3% Light degradation in 15,000 hours from our testing in Project Tighty Whitey). I have to reiterate again, it's only been the last few years that The Sign Syndicate got into Light Source Sales since we started out testing for the electric sign industry. We were amazed with our benchmarks on a few lines, and from someone who likes Neon over LED's I was impressed. Neon is still my preference, there are only about 5% of what we've tested that I would ever use when it comes to LED's. If you like LED's, then this is one of those lines. We started selling Axiom LED's for bright high powered white, and soon after I became so impressed with NC LED, it soon followed. I was asked for a couple of years to sell this line, and I finally gave in, here is a little of that "why". I like selling only what I use, and know to be quality. Their main focus was "eco", or constant voltage, I requested a constant current line when we first started testing, it wasn't something they focused on. But after seeing results of other similar make up we soon saw NC LED exceed those that came before it. When we finally picked up the line I wanted something even more different here in the U.S., I tailored a configuration that I thought best suited the needs of the American electric sign industry when it comes to LED's and what it was thirsty for. A product that also does not help financially support those across the ocean that aren't exactly our enemies, but NOT exactly our friends either. Enter the Reckless... High Powered White, high grade/tier Samsung diodes, Constant Current, high standards of quality control from Korea (think Japan) and here in the US hence the name #teamncled All that put together and we get a 100% Sexy...Bad Ass module, it's disgusting I know. The Reckless is my baby, it's Team NC's Baby, and we're going to treat her right. It appears in the last few months we've been doing almost too good of a job promoting her, and now many suppliers (reading this) are starting to flock to become carriers themselves. Guess their feeling that that what they've been pushing and promising is just not all that, and the failures are hitting them hard. But be assured, learning, seeing, and observing from what happens looking into the past with other mfg/supplier relationships, we've not going to let her be whored out and eventually cheapened #TeamNCLED is going to be taking very good control with all standards when it comes to this particular product, and who can offer it. What keeps great products going and preservation of that, is the team behind it. It's another reason why I'm proud to be apart of it, it's not just a business but it's a "family" of individuals that are and will stay strong, and stay together. That said, I have to say, I'm very proud how this particular job came out. It was going to have to be LED because of clearances, I could have made the "Orange" in Neon and I did think about it, EGL green pumped red. But I REALLY, wanted to see what the 1/2 watt Amber modules could do for halo lighting. From an optics standpoint, I love that the modules castings are the color of the light they will produce, no second guessing....easy! The wall the signs were going on was pretty VERY much appreciated. Flat, light colored, perfect for reflection. We we're lucky, some walls in the shopping center were dark brown, NOT good for halo lighting unless you install with some flat white reflectors flush on the wall. Easy wall to drill through, easy well enough access behind the wall but ALL Power supplies had to be centered on the wall because of access. If this was a Neon sign, it would be dreadful behind that wall. Behind the wall was one of our Union Elecom 120 watt (Dual Channel), and one 60 watt per sign, which totaled two signs. At a glance. Our Constant Current IP68 NC LED .48 watt Amber/Yellow Our Constant Current IP68 NC LED .48 watt Red The NC LED system engines, Union Elecom Power Supplies The Sign Day Shots Last but not least, and more important night shots to wrap it up Right now just about all of the signs are LED only, and all white. Some ugly gray looking white, cheap blue white, high kelvin I'm sure but sold as 6500K with a poor bin process, and probably 50¢ modules. There is only one sign what has a nice white like our reckless, a national chain. Other than that the colors involved for this sign REALLY make it stand out, which leads us to this. That's the point really, to stand out, to compete against our rival/competition (our customers too) and WIN! Winning brings you more clients/customers and referrals, and MORE future work. That is what you will get when your signs have our LED's integrated into them, it's all apart of "Making Long Lasting Channel Letters, and What It Takes" and the products are only going to get better...BELIEVE ME! One thing you have or haven't noticed, we've NEVER sold LED's with marketing statement such as "More Energy Efficient...Saving the Planet..Better than Neon or Fluorescent Lamps", those are myths and mis-information, we just sell better LED's than those that claim they do. This is also NOT my full time job, product sales is fun for me. Not being my full time job mean something of value to me and should for everyone else reading this. Not being full time for me means I don't have to lie or whore myself just to make a sale to float my boat. MANY do that because it IS their full time job. I'll just tell you it is a REALLY great product because we've tested it for years, and I myself use it. I can't bullshit for sales, I never have, never will, I never have with signs and I sure as hell won't do it with components....I'm not the type who can look at myself in the mirror if I did. "NOT made in CHINA!!!" Go #TeamNCLED
Be careful on the NC LED's
Erik Sine posted a topic in General Message BoardWARNING!! Thought I would put out a warning. There are a few distributors out there who carry NC LED's but be careful. There are a lot of different configurations and diode manufacturers configured in, on top of THAT...there are different diode grades. Our Reckless series is the one I curtailed here on the Sign Syndicate for the electric sign industry and is very unique compared to all others. Don't come to assume because it's NC, and constant current it's the same as we supply here. Noooooooooooooo! Ours is a VERY high grade Samsung, constant current NOT constant voltage or "Eco" Some of these distributors/suppliers not only use false pics for ads but also have freedom of picking configurations they want, some like to compete to the bottom of the barrel with other low budget LED manufacturers. Just know, when you buy it here it's "The Reckless" AND nothing but the cream of the crop. Best part about it? NOT made in CHINA!!!!
It Should make you Wonder
Erik Sine posted a topic in General Message BoardIt really should make you wonder when you have a LED Sales rep / Lighting Engineer talking to you over the phone trying to sell you their LED's who are a Sign Company NOW also branching out to sell their LED's which I think everyone has seen in all the sign magazines now where they ship you off their little "light box". I'm sure you know who I'm talking about. I asked him where their LED's are being made, "China...they're the brightest....with very little light decay and will last 11 years" he replied. "I see........Uhh..who is the diode manufacturer?" I replied "I Can't tell you" he said. "You don't know?" I followed up with. "No, I know....I just can't release" he said. "Why is that?" I asked. "It's proprietary information...it's our secret sauce formula you know?" "It's a secret?....that makes me cautious actually. As you know there are a lot bad diode manufacturer's and grades of each Diode......that doesn't make me confident in not knowing who you are using" I ended our conversation with. For a LED product manufacturer not to tell you who they are using is NOT good, it also should tell you their not that confident either. It means you will be retrofitting your customers signs out shortly after! I'm VERY confident and PROUD to tell you what diodes we have in our products, Samsung and Nichia! Finally we can also proudly say that these products are NOT made in CHINA!!!!
Very Humbly Sorry
Erik Sine posted a topic in General Message BoardWe're doing WAY better than expected on the NC LED HLC Series that we can't even keep up with the demand so as of right now there is no HLC2 stock in America, LoL (Plenty of HLC3 & 4) I want to give a big sincere thank you to all those of our existing customers who have dared to try something new, once you did like myself there was no going back....sort of like coming into this industry, once you're in it's very hard to leave or go another direction. It' the growing pains we and NC LED are going through, we're asking for more than they can pump out and they had to grow with the American demand of an awesome product! More an more will be produce, and as of right now I'm having a few cases over nighted direct from Korea to ease the demand until the rest come by boat in a normal shipment which takes 2 weeks normal ocean travel. Anyhow, it's been a learning experience and I can't tell you how excited I've been bringing in a superior product, helping in it's configuration as a premium product to meet the demand for a high-end light source and for High-end customers. It's been an experience to see this go from an underdog product in our testing so many years ago to dominating the competition with their claims of "the brightest....the best.....the longest lasting" So many 6500K LED modules that never looked like a true white, the quality of NC LED is amazing an it's an amazing ride that I never want to get off of. Check out the lineup comparison below, yes....ALL supposed to be 6500K!!!! We will be doing better in availability and the quality will always be there. Go #TeamNCLED NOT Made In CHINA!!!!
NEW Wide Angle NC LED
Erik Sine posted a topic in General Message BoardNC LED Get's Better and Better $69.99! Introducing the NEW NC LED "White Horse" Wide Angle Constant Current Series. The White Horse CC series is a diffused lens LED module to better spread the light for shallow electric sign applications like 2" push thru architectural cabinets and channel letters available in 2, 3, and 4 chip diode configurations. The module is the same as the NC Reckless series discussed here http://www.thesignsyndicate.com/forums/index.php?/topic/7353-bright-long-lasting-channel-letters-and-what-it-takes/ • IP68 • 5 Year 50,000 Hour Warranty • 160˙ Wide Angle Diffused Lens • Constant Current, NOT Constant Voltage • High Brightness LED Module • Made in Korea NOT made in CHINA!!! • ONLY $69.99 per 100 WH2 Modules 42' Linear Feet NC LED DOWNLOADABLE SPEC SHEETS: NC-SS-0416-Brochure.pdf This White Horse series is a 160˙ degree light disbursement LED module and is the same chip for brightness as our Reckless series but because of the diffused lens the light is spread better for even lighting for shallow based sign faces for channel letters, dimensional letters or cabinets. As you know diffused wide angle modules won't be as effective for standard channel letter illumination as the Reckless series but great for shallow depth channel letters BUT, with the sick brightness of the NC Reckless LED series you can probably use this for both applications. Two great modules with the same makeup mixed with high Korean standards, with these standards think high, over engineered Japanese standards.... lastly..........say it with me.......NOT made in CHINA!!! For orders use our online shopping cart or to contact us call or email (858) 880-1400 / email@example.com
Better NC LED Modules
Erik Sine posted a topic in General Message BoardJust a heads up of what's to come. If NC LED wasn't already that sickeningly bright, have a beautiful nice white bin, and long lasting how can this product get better? Well.... Just played around with a new chip from Samsung that will be integrating into the NC line later this year, it's just as bright the real difference is BETTER heat dissipation. The NC LED HLC series already has been only 3% lumen maintenance (Light degradation) in 15,000 tested hours in the Project Tighty Whitey. These new chips (diodes) have small heat sinks built in, so this whole product is getting even grosser so much so it makes me wanna vomit in my mouth a little. The competitors who have flooded the market with their cheap, constant voltage "Engineered In America..Made in China" LEDs have been already for some time just thinking about NC LED and how theirs compares...We rent space in their heads for free...BUT now.....wait for it..... The NC LED HLC series line will ALSO be slightly cheaper!!! As if 100 premium HLC2 LEDs weren't a steal as is as for only $99.99 freakin dollars!!! Oh Damn....we may need to tie a bucket to the other LED reps necks to keep it from getting messy. This is JUST sickening I know, but until then, continue to enjoy the Kick Ass NC LED HLC line as is, it's not going anywhere we're not going anywhere....you're all witnessing the slow rise of a very powerful premium long lasting product and it's doing so without the expensive One-Page advertisements $$$$$$$ in trade magazines. After all, if we spend money it means you will spend money! Let's keep the cost low, we all already have other costs such as Rent, UL/MET, Insurance, Fleet Maintenance, etc etc etc just to play in the game. Let's make one of those costs go down, we WILL be able to make one of those go down.....how often does that happen?
Quality Long Life Channel Letters
Erik Sine posted a topic in General Message BoardQuality Long Life Channel Letters What does that take? The short answer is....always use the best light source according to the project application. I've been busy and took some time away from the Sign Syndicate to take care of a few accounts & live real life. I decided to maintain two good accounts and shut down my shop all the while turning down work from my regular clients and referrals until the jobs were done. The good thing was, I had some good loyal clients who waited for me until these projects were over. I had over 250 channel letters ranging from 12" to 46" and I did all of them myself and by hand instead of subbing them out. Why? I wanted something to do! On one of the accounts which I'll post soon I used LEDs for the obvious reasons, the stroke is too thin for Neon components, but there is something really awesome about these LEDs that I had a personal hand in but that will be a separate thread I'll post later. But for now I'm going to talk about this one, which is focused on Neon illumination. Neon illumination what??? A request by the client who owns a large national high end furniture chain that stems from the west coast to the east coast. I did their first job which was a entirely new location a couple of years ago which I posted here. They came to me by referral and they wanted Neon, NOT LED. They were real specific, reason been IS...they heard all the marketing claims made by sign companies who in turn heard it from the LED manufacturers about saving energy, prolonged life, yadda yadda over fluorescent lamps & Neon. A very topic we discussed in a topic "General LED Channel Letters On The Rise". They had a lot of signs made and retrofitted and well.......time went by and all the failures started to happen across multiple states in their wall signs and pylon signs. Enough was enough, they wanted to go back to light sources that they know always worked and never let them down , and that brought me to a group of stores right here in San Diego. They were making a name change re-brand over so I had to remove all the existing signs which were Neon illuminated. They were installed right for the most part and they didn't really have issues over time. I just improved what was used before, shorter runs, better material, making sure all circuits were properly loaded and going from single halo-phosphate (6500K) lamps to Tri-phoshor coated lamps. My first job for them I used FMS Neon's BL6500 in 12mm, I just continued that for this job. Wow, why 12mm? The Sign faces are day/ night, 3M perf over white. Using 12mm the appearance looked like 6500 white behind white acrylic, and it just a little more load than using 13mm. Seriously, it's that bright. I just happened to put these signs where a lot of the competitors also used 3M perf faces. They used LEDs, we used Neon, the result is now like someone sprinting past a jogger....with the jogger jogging backwards. No competition.....Truly! Using the Tri-Phosphor lamps each letter will be uniform in it's entirety, no need to worry about any individual letter light output degradation. When you have 15' of linear lamp for a letter you only have one single light source, or two depending on how you break it down per letter. For LEDs you would have over 67 individual modules with over 134 individual diodes that can break down, degrade, have irregular lumen maintenance and or fail showing uneven lighting over the years, which is not good for a high end furniture store This high end furniture chain wanted none of that, nor do I, especially with the spec of the sign having day night faces. Now, If I could have done some things different I would have used the Axioms AXLE 9XB's for one of the signs that was on a tilt up wall, that one would have been perfect because some of the letters also had a 1.5" stroke and the stroke was real small for the field installation as well is hitting rebar almost every 8", after all the Axioms are one of the rare LEDs thats as bright a 13mm Tri=Phosphor lamp running on 60ma. The Axiom AXLE9XB LEDs would be perfect, who wouldn't want Nichia of Japan LEDs in their sign? But, again...it was Neon specific so it just took longer to install, no biggy! Back to the illumination at night, it's even, it will stay even, the Tri-Phosphor lamps will stay whiter longer over time than the standard 6500 white. As if 6500 white didn't already stay white long enough. But Tri-Phosphor Whites can be 2 to 3 times brighter and stay white longer 2 to 3 times longer over time before the phosphor coats break down. I had a fun time on this project, 6 sign locations, plenty of 3'x16' monument aluminum faces and smaller to go with it. I had my kids who wanted summer money helping out in trim capping, channel letter fabrication, sign removal and installation. I can't post pics of all sign locations so I'll just keep it simple and it would just be redundant, I've posted this job before but on the initial job, this is more of the existing store chain locations making a rebrand. I'll start from the beginning. The removal My Second oldest getting involved Patterns on the wall Always double nut the system ground, bottom ground for the panel, top for the tranny! Plenty of head room for installation Part of my work organization Racks and boxes of Neon Load Plan Silicone GTO & electrode caps Letters and GTO up! C'mon Neon Day time shot Night time shot How the competition looks at night
General LED Channel Letter Failures On The Rise
Erik Sine posted a topic in General Message BoardGeneral LED Channel Letter Failures On The Rise Been getting a lot of calls to retrofit channel letters that are having failures. It seems like that short time period of three to five years has finally come around to where the sign user who bought from the lowest bidder or bought into the idea of "saving money....more efficient mantra" is coming around to bite them in the ass as well as the sign shop who made a poor choice in using the inexpensive most likely Chinese LEDs. The reality is, there are very few LED manufacturers I would personally EVER use for sign projects that I build. I base that based on our very own Sign Syndicate Light Testing Projects where we test just about every LED on the market and have been doing so since 2008 The failures I see out on the field do nothing but support those results . LED Modules are great for peeling and sticking, spending more time in the shop than out in the field but they should not be used for everything. Too many sign shop are lazy, they look for an "easy way" to stay in business, that's the plain truth of our industry. The Sign Syndicate's Neon & LED Test Comparison "The Great White Hope" (2012 Shot) Our enabling of LED manufacturers inflated, exaggerated, and even misleading marketing points is what help kill our own industry, and now those chickens are coming home to roost. Those 100,000 hours, 80,000 hours, 60,000 hours, 50,000 hours that a lot of sign shops within our industry have financially sabotaged, and screwed the consumer. The LED powers supplies have gotten cheaper, so have the LED modules, shops scramble for the 50¢ modules, the plastic $20 power supplies and a few years later...Waalaa.... individual diode failure leading to inconsistent lighting and power supplies that truly couldn't handle the heat of the load. I've seen this rise in retrofit the retrofit and I'm only in 70˙F weather all year around in just that last couple of months. For Red LEDs that were supposed to last sooooo long, well now those same channel letter faces that were so evenly lit are now hot spotting. The LED Sign market if you don't know as it relates to the sign industry is a crap shoot. Very few reputable companies like GE and others, don't even want to be in it any longer, they would rather be in general lighting. Why? Too many cheap consumers, too many sign companies that don't make wise decisions get lured and duped by the ever growing and disappearing market of what was once here today is gone tomorrow. Sure, a lot of manufacturers tell sign shops their components are warrantied for 5 years BUT, do they, do YOU replace those parts for free to your client? Chances are like most of the scenarios that call me say no, "I still get charged labor" Shame on those companies and shame on you if you're one of those companies. You planned out your project, you spec'd out your project and there is absolutely NO reason why a electric sign should not carry a 5 year "worry free" electrical warranty. This industry has plenty of quality components that are built to last, and Neon is still a VERY viable option especially when it comes to consistency in longevity as well as lighting, unfortunately that is no longer an option for a lot of shops because they lack the "know how", or willingness to learn, even worse..they only posses the laziness and willingness to collect a check and walk away. Today I still continue to install the right light source based on the application, that goes for using LEDs, Fluorescent or Neon. 20+ years later I get very few failures , VERY few. I have signs that operated for 18+ without a single maintenance call. I know I may work a little harder, pay a little more, even spend a little more time with each project BUT...I do sleep easier at night, I don't have to worry about taking those calls about having to come back, and I have happier clients that have stuck with more for my 20+ years that I've been in business. Just some Thursday food for thought to chew on.


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The trend towards the non-territorial office appears to be inexorable, and today's office nomads bear the burden of the ever changing workplace with composure. But the task is much harder for office chairs: they have to adjust every day to the changing sizes and weights of their users.
There is no shortage of ergonomically designed swivel chairs, but ones which are fully technically equipped and attractively priced are certainly harder to find. Sedus has closed this gap in the market with a new product, the Sedus se:do - a swivel chair for the office without equal in its versatility.
Even in its basic version se:do is fully equipped; thanks to its modular principle it can also be quickly and easily configured to become a customised swivel chair. This module includes all the technology, currently demanded in tenders. Independent back and seat movement with spring-assisted rapid adjustment, seat depth and angle adjustment, arm rests adjustable in 2 or 3 dimensions, depth-adjustable lumbar support, head-rest with adjustable angles and a chair back adjustable in height. All these option are available with a choice of five colours, in a hard-wearing membrane covering, which also regulates moisture or with a wide range of breathable upholstery fabrics or the finest aniline leather.
Office planners and designers will particularly appreciate the option of membrane fabrics or upholstery, as this provides them with a breadth of design freedom previously unknown. The most varied colours and designs allow the designer to comply with corporate identity requirements and ensure a uniform image. And the two star base variants (in plastic or aluminum), emphasise the variety of equipment available.
Sedus se:do is a chair which is child's play to adjust quickly and easily with intuitive operating components; it is therefore ideally suited for frequent changes of occupant. With its generously dimensioned back, which is adjustable in height, its outstanding "anti- perspiration properties" and suitability for weights up to 130 kg, the new swivel chair is highly recommended as the reliable partner who will quickly win many new friends among the team.
As a result of its high quality and environmental standards, the decision- maker is investing in a long-lasting and reliable product which is made in Germany - a product with a clear design language and excellent ergonomics as well as an extremely attractive price/performance ratio.
Along with many other new products, the se:do swivel chair will be unveiled at ORGATEC, the international trade fair for office equipment to be held in Cologne from 25th to 29th October. The Sedus stand is number 50 in aisle B of hall 8.
Design: Rüdiger Schaack

subset: commoncrawl


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Experience A New You
By Melisa A. Ferriola, CPCP
Most of us were just not born with naturally long eyelashes. Or we were and as we have aged our lashes are taking a tumble on us. Like most things these days, we can fix that. Re-gain the lashes of your youth. Perk up tired eyes. Save time on your morning routine. All are great benefits found with Semi-Permanent Individual Eyelash Extensions.
Do you wish for the long lashes you see on so many celebrities? Do you wish for the full lashes of your youth? Are you experiencing a tired look that doesn't naturally reflect how youthful you feel? Many of us are not fortunate enough to have long and thick lashes naturally. Thankfully, we can now get the lashes of our youth back with semi-permanent individual eyelash extensions. We can perk up tired eyes, save time in our daily routines, and experience long, full lashes.
Eyelash extensions have gained tremendous popularity in the last few years because of their natural look, ease of application, and affordability. With semi-permanent eyelash extensions, eyelashes are made thicker and longer through professional application of a synthetic eyelash that is curved to replicate a natural lash. Extensions are applied one lash at a time with care and precision using special bonding agents for a completely natural look! The result is thicker, longer eyelashes that are safe in the shower, while swimming, sleeping or exercising. Eyelash extensions are perfect for any woman.
Your extensions can last up to five weeks depending on the life cycle of your natural lash, your eyelash characteristics, your lifestyle and the care of your extensions. Your initial appointment could be 60 to 90 minutes, depending on your set size choice. As your natural lash grows, your extension grows with it! 30 to 60 minute Refining Applications are recommended every 2 to 4 weeks to keep your set fresh. Timeframes can vary person to person depending on your custom wants and needs. The process is tailored to the individual.
How to Find an Experienced and Safe Technician
Choose a technician who has a professional license in Esthetics or Cosmetology and has been professionally trained by a reputable company. A technician should only be using quality adhesives and lashes, no cluster lashes or anything glued directly onto the skin. There should be no damage to your natural lash with the application extensions. Your technician should also have an artistic flair when applying your lashes and be able to answer any questions you have about the process and products used. Extensions vary in length, width and curl. The right combination of these is needed to achieve your custom look. Experience and attention to detail are what matters the most. At Lasting Looks, our licensed Eyelash Extension Specialists will work diligently with you to provide your desired look – a soft, natural enhancement or a bold, glamorous statement!
Whether you are looking for a time-saving, everyday look, lashes for all your holiday events, a professional look for a business portrait or a weekend away, Lasting Looks has the professional, perfected technique, applied by a licensed, certified and experienced Eyelash Extension Specialist. Safe and affordable, trust your eyes to Lasting Looks! Visit our website at www.LastingLooksForYou.com or call us at (302) 635-7327.
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Who would benefit from eyelash extensions?
- The Blushing Bride and bridal party, for a joyful celebration;
- The Business Professional, for a polished image;
- The Mature Retiree, to bring back the lashes of her youth;
- The 20-Something, for a glamorous night on the town;
- The Fitness Enthusiast, for looking great while working hard;
- The Natural Blond, for dark, dramatic lashes
Lasting Looks is a unique day spa in Hockessin Corner – next to the Back Burner Restaurant and Jennifer's Bridal. Our mission starts with the desire to empower women to take charge of their appearance and to put their best image forward. Our staff of estheticians can help meet all your skincare needs, as well as our unique services like eyelash extensions and permanent cosmetics.


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The rapid evolution of technology and continuous improvement of computer and software has dramatically expanded the possibilities to map harsh environments in three dimensions.
Several instruments such as laser scanners or image-based sensors can be used in most situations, but these tools are costly and difficult to use in dark, muddy and wet conditions. A technique called photogrammetry allows 3D models to be made of objects using cheap cameras and software – even in caves.
Photogrammetry is the science of getting precise measurements and three-dimensional data from at least two photographs. This technique can be applied to construct a 3D model of any scene from any source of image, from standard digital cameras to cameras on Earth-orbiting satellites.
The 3D models can be analysed to store information on size, volume, shape and morphology of the surveyed areas.
This year for CAVES we decided to use photogrammetry with the astronauts in different areas of the cave exploration. This technique could also be used on the surface of other planets, or even underground such as in the lava tubes of Mars.
The cavenauts are taking photographs of speleothems (stalactites and stalagmites), cave walls, strange mineral formations and extraterrestrial-like scenes that will allow them to build 3D models and video animations of the places they explore.
The data will give us the opportunity present the 3D landscapes of the fabulous underground to the outside world, so stay tuned to follow their amazing adventures!
Tommaso Santagata


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Sexual violence is defined as a sexual act(s) committed against someone without that person's freely given consent.
- Rape or sexual assault
- Intimate Partner Sexual Violence
- Unwanted sexual contact/touching
- Survival Sex
- Sexual Exploitation
- Stalking
- Incest
Consent is an agreement between participants to engage in sexual activity. Giving consent for one activity, one time, does not mean giving consent for increased or recurring sexual contact. You can change your mind at any time & withdraw consent at any point if you feel uncomfortable.
How does Positive Consent look?
- Communicating when you change the type or degree of sexual activity with phrases like "Is this OK?"
- Explicitly agreeing to certain activities, either by saying "yes" or another affirmative statement, like "I'm open to trying."
National statistics:


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Baku. 7 January. REPORT.AZ/ Officers shot and killed a knife-wielding man with wires protruding from his clothes at a police station in northern Paris on Thursday, Report informs referring to the Russian media, French officials said, a year to the day after an attack on the French satirical newspaper Charlie Hebdo launched a bloody year in the French capital.
Luc Poignant, a police union official, said the man cried out "Allahu akbar," Arabic for "God is great."
A police source told Reuters that the killed man had been wearing a fake explosive belt. "The man did have a belt, but it was a fake. The bomb-disposal unit confirmed it was a fake," the police union source said.
Just a few minutes earlier, elsewhere in the city, French President Francois Hollande had finished paying homage to police officers killed in the line of duty, including three shot to death in the attacks last January.
A Paris police official told the Associated Press that police were investigating the incident at the Paris police station Thursday as "more likely terrorism" than a standard criminal act.
The neighborhood in the Goutte d'Or district of northern Paris was locked down after the shooting.


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Flawless Lashes by Loreta has been voted 'Best Eyelash Product Supplier' for professional Lash Artists in 2014 and 2015 by Lash Inc magazine.
Loreta Jasilionyte established her online retail business in 2013. She has rapidly become recognised as one of the leading Master Lash Artists and innovators in the Lash industry, constantly pioneering new products and techniques.
The wide range of Flawless Lashes products are of the highest quality to meet Loreta's exacting standards. Her emphasis is on creating products that will enable her clients to create 'flawless masterpieces' and provide the best care to maintain the healthy lashes of their clients. Our clients tell us that the growing popularity of the range is because they want to work with an award winning product. We always give the best customer support and we provide an affordable, product. All of which are important for them to deliver an excellent result for their clients and generate profitable revenue for their businesses. Online orders are shipped worldwide and we have distributors in 13 countries.
The Flawless Lashes Training Academy was established by world renowned Master Lash Artist Loreta Jasilionyte in 2012. Loreta is recognised as one of the leading artists and international judge in the global lash industry. As Loreta's reputation grew, she decided to open her own Academy in the UK so she could share her enthusiasm for eye lash extension and her wide knowledge. Her passion and input is endless and her merits are worshiped in various lash publications such as 'Lash Inc' magazine, 'Lash Masters' book, just to name a few.
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Jagan's new party on Sankranti
YS Jaganmohan Reddy, who resigned his Kadapa MP position and also from the primary membership of the Congress party, arrived in Hyderabad yesterday and had extensive discussions with his loyal supporters that included MLAs, MLCs and former ministers.
Ambati Rambabu, spokesperson for Jagan told the press that Jagan decided to launch a new regional political party in the state but the official announcement will be made after the inner circle of Jagan's camp decide upon the name, constitution and manifesto of the new party.
According to sources, the party will be officially unveiled on Sankranti day.


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Shiseido Synchro Skin Lasting Liquid Foundation SPF20 is rated out of 5 by 1.
Rated 5 out of 5 by Dreamer from Excellent foundation Arrived yesterday and I have used it for the first time today. I am always impressed by Shiseido products and the science that goes into their product development and this one is quite revolutionary. It is very fluid, reminds me of an Armani product that I used some years ago. I only used one pump and that is absolutely enough. I used my hands to apply it. I have viewed tutorials with beauty blenders and brushes but for me hands work best. It covers really well, stays on well, no shine comes through. I would say this is a perfect product, gives you flawless skin especially now when it is warmer. Can only recommend it.
Date published: 2016-05-11


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We do not impose artificial time limits on adoptable animals. As long as the animal remains healthy and temperamentally sound, he or she will stay in our adoption program. Staff and volunteers socialize and exercise animals to help keep them healthy for as long as they are in our care. If an animal begins to show signs of stress in the shelter, we may transfer him or her to another shelter or rescue group, or provide a temporary respite in a volunteer foster home.
Posted in: General Information


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The Best Toilet Paper
We've noticed shortages of the products we tested for this guide—including some of our picks—due to COVID-19 outbreaks. We'll link to trusted sources as we find them, but we expect problems to persist.
We surveyed more than 500 people, bought and tested 40 varieties of toilet paper over four months, and then had 10 panelists use and rate our nine finalists to find the one that could best satisfy the needs of most people. That toilet paper is Cottonelle Ultra Comfort Care.
Our pick
Cottonelle Ultra Comfort Care
Best all-around toilet paper
Cottonelle Ultra Comfort Care provides the best balance of softness, cleaning power, absorption, and prevention of lint or remnants. You'll use less of it because it works better.
Cottonelle Ultra Comfort Care does the best job, on balance, of cleaning up, feeling deluxe without leaving lint behind, staying together while absorbing liquid, and yet disintegrating when fully immersed in toilets and plumbing. It's not the cheapest, but you will likely use less of it than cheaper toilet paper because it works.
Charmin Ultra Strong
Very absorptive, less soft
Charmin Ultra Strong absorbed the most liquid while staying together. It's not as soft and costs more, but it's almost as good as our pick and widely available.
If you can't easily buy Cottonelle's Ultra Comfort Care variety (don't buy the other kinds of Cottonelle), a very close and widely available runner-up is Charmin Ultra Strong. Our panelists didn't think it cleaned as well, but it was close in softness and linting. Our own testing showed Charmin Ultra Strong absorbed the most, it ripped more cleanly from its roll, and it seemed stronger when wet in our own observations, which makes it a better paper for what we'll call trouble trips. It may not dissolve as readily in pipes or septic systems, and it costs a bit more than Ultra Comfort Care. But it's a good toilet paper, and you can likely find it at most grocery, big-box, or drug stores.
Budget pick
Charmin Basic
The cheaper stock-up option
Charmin Basic provides better softness and cleaning power than you'd expect for its very reasonable price, but it's not as soft and doesn't absorb as well as our other picks.
If you have the space to store a lot of toilet paper or you need to save money, we recommend buying Charmin Basic. It's about half the price of Cottonelle Ultra Comfort Care per square foot (and 60 percent of Charmin Ultra Strong), but it works and feels about 70 percent as good as those papers. It's not the kind of thick or fluffy toilet paper that feels "premium," but it's not bad for the price.
Everything we recommend
Our pick
Cottonelle Ultra Comfort Care
Best all-around toilet paper
Cottonelle Ultra Comfort Care provides the best balance of softness, cleaning power, absorption, and prevention of lint or remnants. You'll use less of it because it works better.
Charmin Ultra Strong
Very absorptive, less soft
Charmin Ultra Strong absorbed the most liquid while staying together. It's not as soft and costs more, but it's almost as good as our pick and widely available.
Budget pick
Charmin Basic
The cheaper stock-up option
Charmin Basic provides better softness and cleaning power than you'd expect for its very reasonable price, but it's not as soft and doesn't absorb as well as our other picks.
The research
Why you should listen to us
I wrote the original version of this guide in early 2013, spending about 20 hours reading and researching the category. Since then, I have written guides to paper towels and facial tissues, learning a great deal about the paper manufacturing industry, recycling, and how paper products work and break apart. For what it's worth, I also researched and wrote a guide to The Best Toilet Brush.
For this update, I put another 20 hours into researching a much wider array of brands and varieties. I interviewed Kenn Fischburg, owner of Consumers Interstate Corporation and author of The Toilet Paper Encyclopedia, patient blogger Duncan Cross, and a representative with emergency plumbing firm 911 Restoration. I also tested samples myself, along with soliciting people—half Wirecutter staffers, half outside testers—to try our top contenders.
How we picked and tested
One thing we learned from the original version of this guide: The best toilet paper doesn't do anybody much good if it can't be easily purchased, let alone bought at all. We learned this after our prior recommended variety (Walmart's White Cloud 3-Ply Ultra Bathroom Tissue) became hard to find. For this updated guide, we sought a toilet paper that was significantly better than the competition, but also sold at widely accessible stores, sold online, and available in quantities that could provide a discount to those with the room to stock it. So we considered major store brands and major manufacturers, and made a sweep of grocery, big-box retail, and drug stores to check on availability.
We started narrowing down candidates with an online survey that drew more than 700 responses. The survey asked what attributes people valued, and they told us: softness, price, wet strength, cleaning power, and being lint-free, in that order. We also asked what kind of toilet paper they buy, how much of it, what they think it should cost, and where they buy toilet paper (or "bath tissue," in Victorian-minded industry-speak) most of the time.
We quickly filtered down the more than 40 brands and models we initially considered (and purchased) with our survey results, ratings by outside publications (like Consumer Reports and Good Housekeeping), and online buyers' reviews.
We objectively measured our half-dozen finalists by weighing sheets before and after dunking them in water to determine an absorption ratio. While measuring this, we also noted how well the tissue held together while wet, and if it fell apart when pulled from the water for weighing. We subjectively considered how well they tore off both a standing toilet paper holder and one set into a wall, using both the left and right hands.
Most helpful, though, was getting actual humans to use eight different varieties of toilet paper and give their feedback on how the papers performed in a real bathroom. So we offered up a query on Twitter and five folks responded. We mailed to them packages of toilet paper, labeled with letters, and asked them to rate from 1-5 each sample's softness, wet strength, cleaning power, and lint-free quality (matching the priorities of our surveyed readers). We also roped in four Wirecutter staffers and one volunteer at a coworking space, to do the same. The testers (six female, four male) provided anonymous feedback with detailed ratings to bolster our own observations, research, and survey findings.
A note on preventing clogs: Both Toilet Paper Encyclopedia author Kenn Fischburg and a representative with Restoration 911 plumbing told us that some people—especially children and teenagers—use too much toilet paper, especially when using a multi-ply premium brand (like our top pick and runner-up). Each toilet is different, but if you've used more than 10 to 15 squares of toilet paper already, consider flushing midway through the visit. And if younger people in your house use too much toilet paper, consider buying them the thinner, cheaper budget pick, rather than the premium brand you earned.
Our overall favorite
Our pick
Cottonelle Ultra Comfort Care
Best all-around toilet paper
Cottonelle Ultra Comfort Care provides the best balance of softness, cleaning power, absorption, and prevention of lint or remnants. You'll use less of it because it works better.
Cottonelle Ultra Comfort Care was the overall best-rated toilet paper by our panel of 10 testers, and we understand why. That panel found that Ultra Comfort Care had the best combination of cleaning power, softness, and strength, and it left the least amount of lint. It was among the best at absorption, yet its squares still dissolved well in plumbing. It has a good balance of attributes that will work for most people and most bathroom visits, and it can be bought in bulk and stocked, if desired.
Drag Ultra Comfort Care against your skin, and you'll feel why our testing panel rated it both the best at cleaning power and as the second softest. Its thickness holds it together as it moves, but the varied texture does the picking up. Those indented ripples also seem to hold the two plies of paper together more tightly than other brands. Ultra Comfort Care feels like one smooth sheet and doesn't slip into a thinner version of itself during use, unlike Scott Naturals Tube-Free, Kirkland Signature, or other cheaper papers. Ultra Comfort Care excels at cleaning well while feeling comfortable.
Softness is relative, from person to person, and from visit to visit to the toilet, but Ultra Comfort Care tied for second in softness among the wide variety of brands we sent our testers. The rippled texture can seem like a marketing gimmick, but it works. The toilet paper that ranked above Ultra Comfort Care in our panel tests, Scott Extra Soft, had notably less cleaning power. Kirkland Signature (Costco), which tied for second with Ultra Comfort Care, also ranked lower in cleaning power, and placed significantly below Cottonelle in linting. Ultra Comfort Care is strong when wet, rated second out of 10 by our testers.
In our 15-second water dunk test, the Cottonelle Ultra Comfort Care exhibited wet strength, staying together well. Consumer Reports (subscription required) gave Ultra Comfort Care an "excellent" rating in strength, as measured by a mechanical puncturing device.
In everyday use, Ultra Comfort Care leaves little lint behind; it tied for least lint with our runner-up, Charmin Ultra Strong. We noticed in our tearing tests that the perforated edges of Ultra Comfort Care squares are slightly shaggy, and if a square tears off unevenly, the fraying can release some lint. In use, though, Ultra Comfort Care is fairly clean.
Women mostly gave Ultra Comfort Care higher ratings than men, perhaps for its excellent absorption. Ultra Comfort Care carried 11 times its dry weight in water, the third most of those we tested. That's a good bit more than Kirkland Signature or even the thicker Quilted Northern Ultra Plush. Cottonelle Ultra Comfort Care edged out Charmin Basic (our budget pick), and was slightly behind Scott Naturals Tube-Free and Charmin Ultra Strong.
Once toilet paper becomes soaked in a toilet bowl, it then moves rapidly through pipes and should break down as it moves along. Consumer Reports tests this aspect of toilet paper using a stirring bar and found Cottonelle "very good" at disintegrating.
Cottonelle Ultra Comfort Care is available in many stores and has been reliably available on Amazon, with Prime shipping and Subscribe & Save options. Ultra Comfort Care costs 3.9¢ per square foot if you buy it on Amazon in eight packs of four rolls, or 3.1¢ per square foot if you buy the 36-roll mega-pack. It may be similarly priced at your local grocery store (a Wegmans near me has a 30-pack of Ultra Comfort Care that costs 3.3¢ per square foot).
As noted, Cottonelle Ultra Comfort Care ranked fifth overall at Consumer Reports, where it earned an overall score of 49 out of 100, or a Good rating. Kenn Fischburg, owner of SupplyTime.com and author of the Toilet Paper Encyclopedia, actually prefers Cottonelle's "regular" brand, Clean Care, but says that Cottonelle paper is generally "the most technologically advanced paper I know," with "very good wet strength." Duncan Cross, who blogs about his life dealing with Crohn's disease, wrote in an email that softness and pipe disintegration matter to men who have "rare and dry bowel movements," but for women and those whose movements are "frequent or messy," wet strength and cleaning power are paramount. Cross wrote that Cottonelle's texture "gives it good 'grip' … while making it easier on tender parts," and that it "stands up to wetness better than most toilet papers."
Flaws but not dealbreakers
Squares of Cottonelle Ultra Comfort Care do not always rip cleanly off the roll. If you know yourself well enough to know you like a clean tear-off with every visit, go with our runner-up, Charmin Ultra Strong, which deserves a gold medal in sheet-tearing.
While we found packages of Ultra Comfort Care at many stores, it was not as easily available as Charmin Ultra Strong, which we could find at nearly every grocery and drug store in our area.
It's not a budget toilet paper; you can get Kirkland Signature, Scott Naturals Tube-Free, or Seventh Generation for half the price. But it's less expensive than ultra-premium brands like Quilted Northern Ultra Plush, and Charmin's Ultra Soft and Ultra Strong brands. It also performs a good deal better than many papers that cost more.
A less soft alternative
Charmin Ultra Strong
Very absorptive, less soft
Charmin Ultra Strong absorbed the most liquid while staying together. It's not as soft and costs more, but it's almost as good as our pick and widely available.
We found Charmin Ultra Strong to have notably less cleaning power, slightly less softness, and a very slightly higher likelihood to lint than our top pick. Charmin Ultra Strong also had less wet strength, men in our testing panel found, but women found it about even. Notably, though, we found Charmin Ultra Strong to be far more absorptive than other brands, stronger than our panel believed, the best at tearing cleanly off its roll, and more widely available than our top pick.
Charmin Ultra Strong held about 13.5 times its dry weight in water in our testing, a bit more than Cottonelle Ultra Comfort Care (see chart above). Most important, its sheets held together while dunked, removed, and carried over to the scale. Being able to retain moisture without falling apart is a key job for toilet paper, so that it doesn't leave wet remnants, and you don't end up using a toilet-clogging amount for tougher bathroom visits. The only other brands near Charmin Ultra Strong's wet-to-dry ratio were our pick, Scott Naturals Tube-Free, which fell apart entirely when picked up, and Charmin Basic, our budget pick, detailed further below.
Our panelists rated Charmin Ultra Strong an average of 3.4 out of a possible 5 in wet strength, compared with Cottonelle Ultra Comfort Care's average of 4. Having dunked these brands in water for testing, our own rating for Charmin Ultra Strong is at least matching the Cottonelle pick at 4 out of 5, or perhaps a bit higher. It feels like it holds together when dry better than Cottonelle, too; Consumer Reports disagrees, giving Cottonelle an "excellent" in puncture/pressure resistance, and Charmin Ultra Strong a "very good."
When sheets are pulled from rolls, Charmin Ultra Strong does the best. It tore right on its perforated line 18 out of 20 times, and the two not-perfect rips resulted in very minor inward tears of less than an inch. Only Charmin Basic, our budget pick, came close to the Ultra Strong's perfect tearing.
Whether you need toilet paper immediately or prefer to stick with something very likely to be sold online, you can find a distinctive red package of Charmin Ultra Strong just about everywhere. During a sweep of store inventories, we found it at Rite Aid, Walgreens, and CVS pharmacies, Target, Walmart, and two regional grocery stores around Buffalo, New York. On Amazon, as of this writing, you can buy 24 rolls for $27, or 2.3¢ per square foot, sometimes with a $2 click-coupon, or for a Subscribe & Save discount at $25.64, 2.2¢ per square foot.
Charmin Ultra Strong was the go-to toilet paper recommended by "Toilet Paper King" Kenn Fischburg. Fischburg told us it was his ideal mix of comfort (softness, linting) and performance (absorption, wet strength). "It leaves the skin dry, it doesn't tear, and it's extremely soft, feeling like a T-shirt, almost," Fischburg said. Consumer Reports gave Charmin Ultra Strong a 45 out of 100 points. That put it just 4 points behind Cottonelle Ultra Strong, but with six other varieties between them. But Consumer Reports, as noted, tests the dry strength of toilet paper rather than wet, and does not consider absorbency or cleaning power (grip) in their ratings.
Plushest of the cheap papers
Budget pick
Charmin Basic
The cheaper stock-up option
Charmin Basic provides better softness and cleaning power than you'd expect for its very reasonable price, but it's not as soft and doesn't absorb as well as our other picks.
Charmin Basic doesn't perform as well as our top pick or runner-up, but compared with other budget papers it's surprisingly soft, strong, and effective at cleaning, and tears excellently from the roll. If you're trying to cut costs, this paper saves you roughly 20 percent over the Cottonelle Ultra Comfort Care, and all those cents per foot will add up over time.
Our panelists thought the Charmin Basic was one of the softer papers; it's not as soft as the Cottonelle Ultra Comfort Care, but it easily beat the cheaper papers (like Kirkland Signature or Scott 1000). It fell somewhere in the middle of the pack in our panel's wet-strength ratings (averaging 3.4 out of 5), but we found it held almost as much water as our top pick while staying together. It tied with Charmin Ultra Strong on cleaning power in our panelists' ratings, and while it didn't come close to Charmin Ultra Strong's absorption, it did nearly tie our Cottonelle pick.
Charmin Basic's primary weakness is its linting. It's surprisingly fluffy for a one-ply paper, and strong, but when it does break apart, it can leave some lint. I didn't find it as lint-prone as ultra-plush brands like Quilted Northern or Scott Extra Soft in my testing, but our panelists put it last out of nine brands, with a 3.2 average rating out of 5 (the top brand garnered a 4.25).
If you buy a quantity 40 pack of Charmin Basic on Amazon, the toilet paper costs roughly 2.6¢ per square foot. That's compared with about about 3.3¢ for the Cottonelle Ultra Comfort Care and around 4¢ per square foot for the Charmin Ultra Strong. The price difference may seem small, but it adds up over time.
What about "flushable" wipes?
Don't buy wipes, unless you're willing to put your used wipes in your bathroom trash can, or maintain a separate can for them. Flushing them down your toilet is passing along a huge problem to your sewer system, as evidenced by sewer crises in New York City, London, and recurring problems in Miami, Louisiana, Ottawa, and almost any other city where someone interviews a local sewer systems manager. Unless you're willing to spare the effort, and you've made peace with using twice as much paper and binding products, wipes probably aren't worth it for your bathroom.
What about recycled options?
The toilet papers we recommend are made from virgin wood pulp. Both Kimberly-Clark, maker of Cottonelle, and Procter & Gamble, maker of Charmin, pledge that their wood sources are 100 percent legal and that they buy only from vendors practicing sustainable forest management. Backlash against ultra-plush toilet paper seems cyclical; the last major effort from agencies like Greenpeace came in 2009.
As noted by the New York Times in 2009, and as cited by experts in our guides to paper towels and facial tissues, recycled toilet papers are inherently not as soft or strong, and people often end up using more of them to make up for it. The post-consumer pulp going into recycled toilet paper comes from office paper, cardboard, and other sources. It's a grab bag of wood fibers, put through all manner of treatments and stresses, not the soft, aligned virgin fibers made both flexible and strong by factory treatments.
None of the environmentally friendlier toilet papers we tested, both for this updated guide or in previous versions, came close to a favorable balance of softness, cleaning power, linting, or, in particular, wet strength. We tested Scott Naturals Tube-Free, but it entirely disintegrated during our absorption testing. If environmental concerns trump those criteria for you, the National Resources Defense Council, and Greenpeace provide guidance to which toilet papers are the most earth-friendly.
The competition
Scott Extra Soft was highly ranked by Consumer Reports, seemingly for its disintegration and tearing ease. Our panel ranked it as the absolute softest (4.6 out of 5), but only middle of the road (3.6) for cleaning power and linting. It might make a good budget option (at 1.5¢ per square foot) for those who value softness above all else.
White Cloud Ultra Strong & Soft was our prior pick for the best toilet paper, and it likely still would be, were it available for purchase anywhere other than retail Walmart stores. The same general dismissal goes for most store brands, with one exception: Kirkland Signature, from Costco.
Kirkland Signature earned high marks from our panel in softness, wet strength, and cleaning power, but absorbed the least out of any toilet paper we tested. We also saw a few squares break into wet, rolled-up pieces when it was handled while wet.
Scott Naturals Tube-Free earned the lowest ratings our panel gave out in softness (averaging 2 out of 5) and cleaning power (2.75), and earned second-to-last place in linting and wet strength. It absorbed the second-most liquid, but paradoxically fell apart during testing.
Charmin Ultra Soft was not ultra-soft, or ultra-anything to our panelists. It averaged a 3 out of 5 in softness, just above 3 in wet strength and cleaning power. It didn't lint, but it costs nearly the same as Charmin Ultra Strong and is not as good.
Quilted Northern Ultra Plush is a pillowy soft three-ply paper that fell in the middle of the pack for softness, strength, and cleaning power with our panel, but near the bottom in linting. It absorbs 33 percent less than Ultra Strong, and we found it to have significantly less cleaning power.
Cottonelle Clean Care did very poorly when tested for absorption, coming apart in wet strands when moved from water to scale, and also ripped clean only about half the time we pulled it off the roll. It was ranked second to last in softness by our panel.
Kenn Fischburg, The Toilet Paper Encyclopedia
Kenn Fischburg, SupplyTime.com, Interview
Duncan Cross, What's the best toilet paper? Consumer Reports misses the bowl, DuncanCross.net, May 9, 2014
Duncan Cross (Pseudonym), Blogger, Interview
911 Restoration, Representative, Interview
Clotaire Rapaille, Know the Codes: Why We Act, Buy, and Love as We Do, ChangeThis
Toilet paper Ratings, Consumer Reports
Top Toilet Paper, Good Housekeeping, March 28, 2011
Matt Flegenheimer, Wet Wipes Box Says Flush. New York's Sewer System Says Don't., New York Times, March 13, 2015
Douglas Hanks, Miami-Dade's sewage system declares flushable wipes the enemy, Miami Herald, May 26, 2015
Mary Wu Chang, Radhika Nakrani, Six Children With Allergic Contact Dermatitis to Methylisothiazolinone in Wet Wipes (Baby Wipes), Pediatrics
Leslie Kaufman, Mr. Whipple Left It Out: Soft Is Rough on Forests, New York Times, February 25, 2009


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Bring focus to your most important features with internal lighting. Backlighting adds emphasis and highlights your message like no other graphic application.
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Numerous studies confirm that backlit displays will drive traffic and increase sales. A study by Visual Merchandising & Store Design Magazine shows that in-store displays that were illuminated attracted significantly more attention than non-lit displays.
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Coming Out…To The Children
We were recently asked by a LemonAider how we came out to our children…
Our situation was somewhat different from theirs since our kids were the same age and already knew each other from various activities and social meet-ups together, so our transition into spending more time together looked mostly like a growing friendship to begin with.
The Early Days…
We didn't tell them for about 6 months which, while sensible, was very difficult when we were in the midst of something so utterly life altering for us all!
However, we obviously weren't quite sure (or ready to admit) whether this was something huge and important and love or just 30 odd years of pent-up latent lesbian sexual desire!! (I think we were both pretty darn sure it was the former but a bit scared to share that too early on).
A lot of our early courtship happened around the kids…
I had hardly any child-free time except when they were at school and Lea home educates hers so it was tricky! Needless to say we spent a lot of time at the cinema and in soft play centres (ugh) with them during those winter months so we could have the occasional illicit hand hold or cuddle between the seats or behind a giant wipeable block. Sexy, huh? Hide and seek was invaluable to us!
Coming Out…
When we did come out and tell them all, they were relatively unfazed by it all.
The older two had an awareness that women could have girlfriends and men boyfriends but there was no-one gay with a partner in their acquaintance who they saw regularly. We kept it brief and simple to begin with – we started holding hands in front of them and being more tactile. Kissing was a spectacle and can still, even now, cause guffaws or calls of 'gross'.
But what they've all witnessed and still do is our love, physical affection and, for the most part, our care and desire for one another, something that was lacking in our previous relationships with their fathers. We both really wanted them to have a healthier model of what a loving, adult relationship can look like.
The Impact…
On the plus side for the two older girls, they quickly realised that our relationship meant they could see more of each other and be the 'besties' they've become. The younger two have had their moments of jealousy with the mummy being 'taken away' from them narrative playing out at numerous times.
From the beginning however, we agreed that the family model we wanted to emphasise is that we are the parents and adults at the top of the tree (and that our relationship and partnership is pivotal to the success of the family as a whole), with the children in their roles as children, NOT rescuing any of their parents (a work in progress!), and that as our children our love for them is always there, but in a different way to the love of a partner.
None of it has been without its difficulties, not least of which has been my guilt…
We've experienced a period when the big girls were feeling a lot of anger towards their fathers and feeling let down by them, which led to them turning even more into their friendship with each other and discussing whether they were going to be lesbians (and even whether that would be with each other!!!).
That was a tricky one and Lea had to pull me down off the ceiling to deal with that one calmly and not go off in a state of panic!
Then there was the dawning realisation from Mali that sex isn't just for procreation which led to us letting the big girls ask us anything they wanted to know about sex, including whether we've had sex with each other (bless!).
They haven't yet asked how we have sex – they know how men and women make babies and that sex is also for pleasure but thank goodness their naive little minds haven't joined up any more dots…yet!
Let's Talk About Sex…
Since coming out, it's been noticeable how sexualised a topic being gay is for many people. We've always agreed that sex is going to be positioned as something 'normal', natural and healthy, between adults…hell we've shown them pictures of Kim Anami weightlifting from her vagina (if you haven't checked her out you really should – gay or straight she's THE biz for all matters sexual).
We want sex to be a topic that we always talk about honestly (in an age appropriate way), that we're not prudish around and connect to it as part of a loving, intimate, healthy, ADULT relationship. There are kids at school in the same year as Flo who have no clue how a baby is made or the correct names for their vulva and vagina…we want our children to grow up considering sex a natural form of connection (with themselves and others), and without the stigma or negative connotations so many of us feel.
…And Other Things…
Our coming out has led to many interesting conversations with all the children – the vaginal weight lifting for example, vaginal health more generally, stereotyping, gender fluidity, masculine and feminine energy and how interchangable that can be.
In many ways it's putting the theoretical meat on the bones of the gender studies degree I did twenty years ago, albeit tailored to a slightly different audience!!
Two of the children are now aware that their uncle is gay, they know about Pride and rainbows and about feeling like you've been born in the wrong body. They know that some people prefer not to have a gender at all (that's not as complex for them to get their heads around as it seems to be for adults!). They know that mummy stopped being friends with someone they knew because she believed gay people would go to hell. That led to some very interesting discussions about love I can tell you!!
Having Gay Parents…
They're also learning and telling us about their experiences of having gay parents. At our old Primary School Flo encountered some negative comments about it being unnatural for two women to be together. The Head seemed more concerned with stopping us flexi-schooling than dealing with that! Similarly, at our current school we've just experienced an incident with another child commenting on the girls having parents in a same-sex relationship.
These incidents are so small and yet they each have an impact which we see when our daughters are considering whether to tell people at theatre school that their mums are 'gay together'. They made friends with two girls who they did tell, but were much more discerning about telling some of the boys, recognising that they might make life harder for themselves.
Those are the only incidents we've had and generally people are warm, friendly and interested (sometimes a bit too interested!).
You can see people mentally trying to work us out as a family – did we each have sperm donors and settle on two brown and two white children?!? Did we each birth each others?! It's quite hilarious to watch, and tempting to play up to!
Lea and I have only had two direct experiences of homophobia, once in a bar in Lincoln where a guy made a rude remark as we walked in and once when we went to a dance class together. On both occasions Lea, as the more masculine energy, is the one in the firing line from men who cannot hold or handle that.
We've not told the children this but they are aware that discrimination happens to gay people because of who they love, just as it does to people of colour, women, disabled people, and anyone who isn't a white, of a certain age male.
There is already a sense of injustice in them all about this, and a matter of factness that this is their normal. It will be interesting to see how this changes or develops in their teenage years, and whether it's different for our son and daughters…