text:
Meezan Bank has launched a new consumer financing product, which is Shariah-compliant and it will allow individuals and businesses to purchase laptops on easy installments.
By obtaining this facility, consumers can get laptops at an easy installment of 3 to 24 months in total. The bank will not charge any profit or return for customers who opt for the 3 month or 6 month installment plan.
The product has been launched in collaboration with M/s. New Horizon and is available for only HP laptops. M/s. New Horizon will provide two years warranty with parts along with nationwide after sales services at the customers' doorsteps.
An MoU for this arrangement was signed between Meezan Bank and New Horizon at Meezan Bank's Head Office. Mr. Mohammad Raza, Head of Consumer Banking of Meezan Bank and Mr. Rahim Eqbal, COO of New Horizon signed the MoU.
Speaking at the occasion, Mr. Raza said that Meezan Bank has an active focus on developing customer-friendly, Islamic alternatives to conventional banking products, in line with its Mission to offer a one-stop shop for innovative value-added products and services to the customers within the bounds of Shariah.
Salient features:
- 2 years warranty with parts provided by vendor.
- Free Caring Case will be provided by vendor.
- Dedicated Call Center by New Horizon for addressing after sale issues and providing after sales support to the customers at their door step
- Absolutely Free Takaful Coverage. All laptops acquired through Meezan Laptop Ease will be covered by Takaful (Islamic Insurance) before delivery to the customers
- Minimum down payment up to 15%
- Laptop model offerings will vary from time to time in consistence with the latest & upgraded features and market demand.
- Minimum age to avail this offer for both individuals and businessmen should be 20 years and maximum age should not cross over 60 and 65 years, respectively.
- Laptops are available at easy monthly installments of as low as Rs 2,750/ per month-
For more information, visit any Meezan Bank Branch or call helpline at +92-21-111-331-331
MashALLAH u peple rock :) May ALLAH bless awl ProPakistani Team aamin.
That's cool, Meezan Bank should collaborate with Apple as well, i'll go for MacBook or iMac then :)
Standard Chartered used to have similar deal with Apple products a few years back but they stopped. I wish I had bought then :(
Committing fraud, in the name of Islam. Check the details page for the current offers.
They are going to charge almost double of current market prices. Nice trick to hide interest in folds of islamic banking.
Seems like you know little about Islamic Banking. ALL ISLAMIC BANKING IS LIKE THIS. This is not special to Meezan bank, this is done everywhere in the world.
janab aap ye drama kahi aur ker lena. agar koi apny aap ko Muslim kehta hai tu kya baat maan lein gy? Just to remind, TTP claims to be a group of devoted Muslims. Do you believe them, or do you test their claim first?
And food for thought:
"6. Bill discounting procedure under the new modes in no way differs from the bill purchase under the conventional system. By renaming �€œInterest�€� into �€œMark Down�€� does not legitimise the transaction under the law of Sharia. Similarly financing on the basis of �€œMark Up�€� under the garb of sale-purchase transaction can not derive approval from the Islamic jurisprudence. The financing under sale/purchase of goods on the basis of �€œMark Up�€� on deferred payment basis is a notional transaction and carries interest in disguise. "
pappu tu chaa gya hai yar.. yes they are tanking double rather triple amount.
Now intel has launched 2end generation i core processors and they are at the rate of previous laptops.
if meezan bank is giving you a 1st generation laptop of 70 thousand you can get it at 45 thousand not more than that because you can get same laptop 2end generation at 65k-69k.
Mezaan bank is double shah :)
— agar koi apny aap ko Muslim kehta hai tu kya baat maan lein gy?
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE STOP ATTACKING OTHER MUSLIMS WHO DISAGREE WITH YOU BY IMPLYING THEY ARE NOT GOOD MUSLIMS. You know what is the same with TTP and you? You both think someone who disagree with them is not "their kind" of Muslim.
There are THREE STATES: Muslim, Non-Muslim, Muslim but ignorant of some things or confused about some things. DO NOT FORGET THIRD STATE. It is possible that I am wrong or confused and it is possible that YOU are wrong or confused. DO NOT STRAIGHT AWAY ASSUME. Humility in such matters will get you to heaven NOT PRIDE.
I searched that article but did not find anything about Musawamah: http://www.financialislam.com/other-contracts.html Unlike Murabaha, seller in Musawamah is not needed to reveal his cost. SBP agreement is like http://www.sbp.org.pk/press/essentials/Musawamah%20Facility%20Agreement.htm
bhai jaan aap bachay hein kya? jahan sy apny sirf ek sentence copy kya hai, wo sara paragraph parh lein. agar koi islamic banking ka da'wa kar raha hai tu aap ankhein band rakhein, bohat sy logon ki aankhein khuli hein.
baat kuch aur ho rahi hai, and instead of staying on-topic, you are derailing as always.
If you make implication like it is fraud and against islam, simply prove it. If you can't then you can talk about derailing and TTP and whatever. (* all off topic)
zara nichla parh lo, nazar aa jaey ga sab.
And unfortunately, you have not responded to a very important question yet. If someone claims something, religion related, do you bother to investigate or not?
Why do you think I posted my comments? Because I d not agree with you that it is against my religion but only because you have not shown it.
I posted it ages ago:
"pappu says:
April 28, 2011 at 10:49 am "
Their web page clearly says
Laptop Finance is based on the concept of Musawamah which is a general and regular kind of sale in which price of the commodity to be traded is bargained between seller and the buyer without any reference to the price paid or cost incurred by the former. Thus, it is different from Murabaha in respect of pricing formula. Unlike Murabaha, seller in Musawamah is not obliged to reveal his cost. Both the parties negotiate on the price. All other conditions relevant to Murabaha are valid for Musawamah as well.
Did you not read???
Go to http://www.meezanbank.com/laptopfinancing.aspx click on "Meezan Laptop Ease works on Musawammah basis"
Since they say negotiation (I saw it elsewhere to), they MUST negotiate with you. Otherwise, you can report them not just for false advertising but also for breaking the Islamic banking regulations.
Responding to:
Shahid Saleem says:
April 28, 2011 at 7:26 pm
Check my post
pappu says:
April 28, 2011 at 11:54 am
I have called them already and they have fixed prices.
Should i report them? Yes. And same responsibility lies on everyone else. Have you called them so far or not?
— I have called them already and they have fixed prices.
Should i report them? Yes. And same responsibility lies on everyone else. Have you called them so far or not?
Yes, you should report them.
I have not called them because I am not interested in their offer. Like I said elsewhere, it is 2-4x my salary. I have a family to support, so unless situation is deseparate (my laptop dies and I cannot earn) I will rather save to support my family.
bhai jaan kya aap 5-10 roopay ki call nahi kar sakty? aap itny ghareeb nahi lagty. Whether interested or not, you are supposed to ask them a question. I want to show YOU that you were trying to defend a con artist.
As a Muslim, you are supposed to speak for Haq, not batil. Janab aap zara call karein, phir aa kar bateen k meezan kya kehta hai.
I guess you are supposed to at least apologize for being outrightly wrong. (unless you are a wrangler).
Meezan ki apni site par description hai k Musawamah involves negotiating price b/w buyer and seller irrespective of cost incurred by seller. Unka chart check karein. Prices are fixed. Ye negotiation kaha gayi?
Ok, call them up and ask them if you can negotiate. Does it say No Negotiation???
Do you need voice call recording?
hahaha chaa gya aj tu humara Pappu
Rather than making a fuss here, send a complain to a Banking Ombudsman or State Bank.
chaloo g aah hun navi khap aah ???
I don't know about the interest thing, but they are claiming that the product is based on "musawamah" (it is just like we purchase thing from a store where cost is not disclosed as seller doesn't disclose the price paid for the product) which means cost won't be disclosed unlike murabaha, and by the way, they are there to earn profit rather than running a "khairati idara" as they claim directly or indirectly!
2 if the parties are agreed deferred price can be different from spot price as per they say
check the chart displayed on MBL website. The listed prices are fixed. musawamah means when buyer and seller negotiate prices irrespective of cost/cost of production
Just like you posted against objectionable marketing drives of Telenor, i hope you shall edit your post to mention that instead of charging interest explicitly, Meezan bank shall charge 10k-20k extra. For fact check, visit http://galaxy.pk/hp.htm
Bro Check that Meezan Bank is giving 2nd Generation Core i3 Processor which are the higher in price .. so thats why the prices are high and prices are from NEW HORIZON COMPUTERS not MEEZAN BANK and whenever you purchase any thing from direct dealer it is a bit high. and as per galaxy right now galaxy doesn't have 2nd generation core processors available in laptop yet.
sir aap corei5 sandybridge ki baat kar lein na. wo tu galaxy par available hein.
Zara meezan walun sy tu poochen k ye corei5 kis khushi mein eek laakh plus ka dy rahay hein :D
And new horizon is not distributer/reseller. they are enterprise solution providers. Check HP Pak page. As far as direct dealers are concerned, they dont charge high. Example is POP. Moreover, there is HP centre in barkat market lhr. Their prices are the same as those of hafeez centre shops.
islam k naam pe total fraud kar rhe hein product ki price markete rate se kaafi xidada hai……
I wish people get their facts and concepts right before blaming anybody.
All those who think that is interest should read the shariah banking. In the current Pakistani laws Meezan Bank is the only bank that provides pure Islamic banking. I m not Meezan bank customer but can vouch for its integrity with Islam.
Muslims shaid woh wahid religious followers hain jin ki majority ko apne religion ka bhi sahee nahin pata…
janab aap ko zyada pata hai ham sy. Aaj aisy aalim hazraat ki kami nahi jo payment ly kar fatwa dety hein. aaj naat parh kar paisy leenay walun ki bhi kami nahi. aaj unki bhi kami nahi ko yazeed ka ek zaeef hadith ki waja sy bara ihtiraam karty hein. men apki la-ilmi par aur kitna maatam karun, yee jaan lein k shariah k ussool hai k jo chez shak paida kary, usy chorr do.
gunah chupa kar kae lein ya sab k samny, uska status badal nahi jata. aap interest ko interest keh lein ya ufone ki tarah service charges, uska status badal nahi jaata.
agar apki maloomat k mutabiq sood sirf compounding interest ko kehty hein, tu men kya keh sakta hu.
Lets suppose that UBL is offering interest based 1 year deal on a laptop that costs Rs. 50k from retail store. Obviously, due to interest, it shall cost more than 50k after paying all installments. What if they offer the same laptop for 75k, spread over equal installments for a year, and claim that there is no interest? This is what Meezan is doing.
Meezan claims that their offer is based on Musawamah which involves negotiating prices. But the price chart at……
….speaks for itself.
There is another simple interpretation. If i go to retail store, i can get a laptop for 50k. If i cant pay that much upfront, i will contact Meezan bank and end up paying 75k for the same thing during the term of installments :) Whether they call it interest or not, they are making 25k extra on selling that laptop.
If they claim that there is no interest, implicit or explicit, they should give me the laptop in retail price 50k. Thats about it. And dont forget that this retail prices includes the profit of retailer.
Ess Saadgi Pe Kon Na Mar Jaye Ae KHUDa
Waar Karte Hain Aur Haath Main Talwar Bhi Nahi
If I buy something from a store for Rs 10 and sell it to you for Rs 20, is that HARAM now?? Does it maktter if you pay me in two instalments or four??
Meezan can charge whatever they want to. Are you saying you are against them getting profit? Then say so publicly. Buy instead directly from retailer or someone else! OR get loan from a friend.
All this haram this and haram that talk. Is profit haram now??
-There is a difference b/w making payment upfront and delaying completion of total payment with having to pay extra, which could have been avoided in case of paying upfront. Whether you declare interest straight away, or hide it in installments, it does not change the hukm. Janab agar Islam men workarounds hilal hoty na, tu interest ko haram karny ki zarorat hi na thi.
If you buy something for 10, and sell it for 20, when others are selling it for 10, you shall face qazi for over charging. And further, when you sell it in form of installments i.e. 20 rupees to be paid over a period of say 1 year, you shall be investigated for interest-taking.
-Yes, that, anyone can charge whatever they want to. But Meezan is trying to manipulate facts. They claim that their deal is based on Musawamah. If it really is, why is there no room for negotiation?
Your comment makes me infer that you did not bother to read or understand what i wrote. Instead, you started a new raag of your own.
Just a side note, anyone looking for a laptop isn't that poor to be unable to pay full price upfront.
-And who says profit is haram? Janab its loot marr which is haram. We are supposed to earn hilal rizk and it comes only via hilal paths.
— If you buy something for 10, and sell it for 20, when others are selling it for 10, you shall face qazi for over charging.
This qazi of yours Makes no sense at all. Does he have perfect knowledge? How does he distinguish between profit and over charging?
If I sell at 20 while others sell at 10, then why should anyone care? People are free to go buy from 10 sellers. No one is forcing them to buy from me. Same with the bank.
And why won't "qazi" go after 10 sellers? they are all selling at profit, too! Who sells anything at loss except Punjab govt sasti roti? :)
— Just a side note, anyone looking for a laptop isn't that poor to be unable to pay full price upfront.
Um, if that were the case, there would be no interest in intsallments plan. Clearly there is interest. So, people CANT pay full price up front. Simple logic.
No laptop on that list costs less than 2-4 months of my salary. At same time, I need to replace my 6 year old laptop. What should I do?? According to your reasoning above, I don't exist because i am unable to pay full price.
— Janab its loot marr which is haram. We are supposed to earn hilal rizk and it comes only via hilal paths.
Again you are free to buy from someone who does not charge extra. No one is forcing you to buy from Horizon or Meezan. What makes it haram to add profit?
Tell me this one thing. If I walk into a shop to buy a laptop, they might quote me Rs 50,000. If I take ten buddies to same shop with me and say we 11 want to buy but want a deal, don't you think they will sell for less than Rs 50,000? What does that mean — Rs 50,000 is overcharging? haram profit??? Or just business sense?
also please do not confuse hilal with halal. Two different concepts, NOT SAME SPELLING.
By "interest" I mean people interested in using that option, not riba interest.
– janab jab aap islamic jurisprudence ki baat karty hein na, tu apko pata hona chahiey k qazi muttafiqa raey sy muqarrar kya jata hai aur neik shuhrat+knowledge rakhta hai.
Those who are selling a product for rs.10, are obviously getting profit and that is what market supply/demand determined. Those who try to sell the same thing for rs.20, in the same environment, are looting people. Not sure if you will still get the gist.
– If you look at the right place, you shall get right prices and those shall not consume your 2-4 month salary. Unless you are Meezan fanboy, you should be buying from some computer shop like Czone or Galaxy.
Moreover, there is something called "savings". If you never did that, you should read the story of the ant and cricket.
Just because Allah did not write the detailed definition of 'sood' in Qur'an, jitny munh utni batein. Even that, we dont have a single method to offer prayers. Thats the reason we have a brain which is intelligent by design.
– rs. 50k is retail price with profit of retailer. If he is getting multiple orders at the same time, he will reduce his profit-taking per unit. He is waving off his right of full profit he deserves on selling a single unit.
Go to HP website, configure a laptop, and it shall display a price. If you choose interest based payment, it shall cost you higher. Similarly, if you choose Meezan's offer, you pay higher than the rightful price. I guess HP should learn from Meezan. They should offer installments just like Meezan, for Muslims, and still earn extra. interest based deals for non-Muslims, Meezani deals for Muslims. Revenue still the same. :D
– "Hilal" and "Halal" have just a single letter different. Couldn't it be a typo?
— If you look at the right place, you shall get right prices and those shall not consume your 2-4 month salary.
An Rs 50k laptop from one vendor is similar to Rs 50k laptop from another vendor (with similar processor, similar RAM etc). There is NO WAY it will cost less than 2-4 months salary. You are being unrealistic.
— Moreover, there is something called "savings". If you never did that, you should read the story of the ant and cricket.
Wow you totally do not understand the concept of paying attention. Look. If I make Rs 25k and a laptop costs Rs 50k, then NO MATTER HOW MUCH I SAVE the laptop is still 2x my salary. I did not say I cannot save money or that I have no savings.
Look again at what you said:
— Just a side note, anyone looking for a laptop isn't that poor to be unable to pay full price upfront.
UNTIL I SAVE RS 50K I AM CLEARLY UNABLE TO PAY THE FULL PRICE UP FRONT. Be careful in your wording next time.
— Similarly, if you choose Meezan's offer, you pay higher than the rightful price.
For third time: they are NOT similar because Meezan does not offer sale without installment plan. If they did, sure I will 100% agree that it is interest, and I have said that in other comments. But they don't.
If it was ANY BUSINESS OFFERING installment plan other than a bank, would you be so outspoken in your condemntation?
— There is a difference b/w making payment upfront and delaying completion of total payment with having to pay extra, which could have been avoided in case of paying upfront. Whether you declare interest straight away, or hide it in installments, it does not change the hukm.
Aaaah I see confusion. Let me explain.
If I say you can buy from me at Rs 10 in one upfront payment OR buy from me at Rs 20 in four installments, you can accuse me of hiding interest. But Meezan bank is not offering ONE TIME PAYMENT for anything. It is Horizon that offers one time payment.
Meezan is only offering installments. That is why it is different from your description.
Sir Hp.com has interest based deals. A laptop of price X costs X+Y(interest).
Pay upfront, you pay X.
Pay in installments, you pay X+Y.
Is there ANYTHING different in case of Meezan's deal? Except naming convention?
Sir, why is it that Meezan cant offer 50k laptop with installments of 50k only? Those who are selling for 50k, are not facing loss. And Meezan shall not face it either.
— Is there ANYTHING different in case of Meezan's deal? Except naming convention?
Yes, the difference is simple: they have no "pay upfront for X" offer. Read their offer — installments from 2 to 36 months. No "pay once".
That's what makes it different.
Well said. Buying and Selling on FIX price with the contract is not actually interest.
Ooooooooo bahi munafa lyne ka be Islam mei mojood hai keh kitna munafa jaiz hai…
yeh ni hota keh ap aik cheez 10rupay key lay ker 100 rupay key bachain.. agar yeh bat hai tu interest he theak hai…
Aj kal ka muslim munafik hota jaa rha hai.
oye Shahid Saleem tu Meezan bank dey phuphi da munda tay ni :p
The more I post here the more people accuse me of working for someone. So far people have accuse me of working for Meezan bank, Telenor, Israel, USA.
I must be the only jewish telecommunications banker with american passport in Pakistan!!!
yar agar asey bat hai tu phir tum apna elaaj kyun ni kerva lyte.. pata hai eska elaaj mojood hai.. mayoos na ho :p
I think I am sane enough not to care about diagnoses from commenters.
منافع لینا اسلام میں بالکل جائز ہے اور اس کا تمام تر دارومدار بیچنے والے پر ہے کہ وہ کتنا منافع لے رہا ہے۔ کوئی شخص دس روپے کی چیز ہزار روپے میں بھی بیچ سکتا ہے۔ اب یہ خریدار پر ہے کہ وہ خریدے یا نہ خریدے۔
wah ji wah. apny tu hoarding aur objectionable munafa-khori karny walun k liyay opportunity k darwazy khol diyay.
jiss din sab sellers apki baat par amal karein gy na, tu apko das ropay ki chez ky chaar hazar hi dena parein gy.
Sugar industry mafia/cartel ko itni jaldi bhul gayay?
مافیا اور بینک میں جسے تمیز نہ ہو اسے کیا سمجھا سکتے ہیں۔ چینی اور دیگر چیزوں پر منافع خوری کرنے والوں کا طریقہ کار میزان بینک کی آفر جیسا ہر گز نہیں ہے۔
شاید جناب کو علم نہیں کہ چینی مافیا تمام مارکیٹ کی چینی کو اسٹاک کرتی ہے، گودام بھرتی ہے پھر اسے بلیک میں بیچ کر قیمت بڑھائی جاتی ہے۔ میزان نے کتنے لیپ ٹاپس کے گودام بھرے ہیں جناب؟ یا کسی اور کو بھی کہا ہے کہ وہ بھی مہنگا بیچے؟
جس چیز کی قیمت آپ کو اس چیز کے لائق نہیں لگتی تو بہت آسان سی بات ہے کہ اسے نہ خریدیں بلکہ دوسری سستی جگہ سے خرید لیں۔
bhai ji ap ny kaha
"منافع لینا اسلام میں بالکل جائز ہے اور اس کا تمام تر دارومدار بیچنے والے پر ہے کہ وہ کتنا منافع لے رہا ہے۔"
tu kya sugar maafia ko ijaazat hai? agar hai tu kamal ho gaya. agar wo apni marzi ka munafa ly sakty hein tu unhein hoarding etc. karny ki zaroorat hi nahi parni :)
I was not talking about banking system. I was talking about the concept of profit-earning.
— yeh ni hota keh ap aik cheez 10rupay key lay ker 100 rupay key bachain
Obviously you have never had meal at expensive hotel restaurant. A bottle of pepsi that is Rs 15 at roadside shop across street same bottle can be Rs 50. And no one thinks it is wrong, not restaurant people or eaters. There is a reason you are eating at expensive hotel and not roadside grill.
— agar yeh bat hai tu interest he theak hai…
WRONG WRONG WRONG. Interest is NEVER SAME AS PROFIT. Interest is where you want a LOAN for Rs X and bank or whoever asks you to repay Rs X + Y. Profit is where seller wants to sell at Rs X and you pay Rs X. No Y.
Seller can buy from his supplier for less than X and sell to you at X. That is profit. Not interest. Feel free to fly to Karachi to get lower rate or to Taiwan or somewhere to buy direct from factory at even lower rate.
– Restaurants sell pepsi with increased cost. YES. But they dont do so in name of Islam. :)
btw, next time, when you go to one, ask them to produce a receipt of cold drink charges. The receipt should carry a serial number. If you get it, let me know. I shall sue them in consumer courts on your behalf, and on my expense.
– Take your time to go through previous posts. You started talking about profit in first place, when no one was mentioning anything about it.
— I shall sue them in consumer courts on your behalf, and on my expense.
For what? This makes me think you don't know function of consumer courts. Why does consumer courts care about this? Can you point to relevant clause in consumer courts law?? Will you sue Freddy's for selling chicken steak for Rs 200 more than Nando's? Will you sue Nando's for selling chicken burger for Rs 100 more than KFC??
— You started talking about profit in first place, when no one was mentioning anything about it.
Actually no, you did. Your comment of April 27, 2011 at 9:45 pm says
— If they claim that there is no interest, implicit or explicit, they should give me the laptop in retail price 50k. Thats about it. And dont forget that this retail prices includes the profit of retailer.
Meezan bank can charge whatever they want to, below or above retail prices. WHATEVER THEY WANT TO. They set the price for what THEY sell. Just like restaurant set price for what FOOD and DRINK they sell. If you don't like it, no one forces you to buy from them. You are so ready to sue restaurants on my behalf, why don't you use Meezan bank???
Do you boycott Freddy's because their chicken steak is Rs 200 more expensive than a chicken steak from a restaruant across the street? Maybe. But you don't see anything unIslamic there, and you see unIslamic in what Meezan does. Meezan is earning profit on transaction, and you don't like HOW MUCH profit they earn.
use = sue
– janab
shayed aapko consumer courts laws ka nahi pata. If you buy something, and you get a receipt with serial number, you can sue seller if you were over charged. Mene cold drinks ki baat ki hai. Chicken steaks ki nahi. Cold drinks ki retail price to uniform hai na?
Jo kaam kaha hai, bhayya wo karu. Chicken steaks ki bari baad men ayay gi. Are you going to get a receipt or not?
– i havent tried to mix profit with interest. You just started commenting on it as if i did not know the difference between profit and interest.
I said
"dont forget that this retail prices includes the profit of retailer."
Iss men apko kaha sy nazar aa gaya k mujy profit & interest k difference ka nahi pata?
jo apka husn karishma saaz kary
Wrong kiddo. Read the law: http://www.pap.gov.pk/uploads/acts/477.html
What you THINK is the law is not true. There is NOT ONE WORD ABOUT OVERCHARGING. If the price on the menu is Rs 100 and bill says Rs 200, YES YOU CAN SUE. But if the bill says Rs 100, YOU HAVE NO GROUNDS FOR A CASE.
Learn facts, pappu, instead of imagining fiction. The law is in front of you. Read it and correct your self.
— Cold drinks ki retail price to uniform hai na?
The price on the can or on bottle is (using your term) MSRP. MSRP does not mean NO MORE AND NO LESS THAN THIS PRICE. That is why it is "suggested".
The price you pay is what is on the menu. Period.
— i havent tried to mix profit with interest. You just started commenting on it as if i did not know the difference between profit and interest.
If you say they should sell at the same retail price you can get elsewhere, then you are either 1. deciding they should make no profit, or 2. claiming that any profit they make is really interest. Go back and read your own comment, it's very clear what you said.
wahwahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh cha gaya papuuuuuuuuuuu, bohat ala bhai, mere khayal hai key meezan bank ko apni sari buildings ko aag laga deni chahie kanjar salay
Simple is that some years ago Meezanbank also insured all of its leased car and after takaful it says Insurance is not allowed in Islam. If at that time it was allowed , then now how it is not allowed. Incase they say that at that time there was no takaful., Then Life Insurance might be ok because in takaful there is no option for it. So there is a complete Contradiction.
In relation to above, In islam it is allowed to increase price if there the goods is sold on
credit basis.And it is complete option for seller to increase or decrease its profit.But in Islam there are no charges for Late Payment, which is completely violation of Islamic Law by Meezan Bank.
— But in Islam there are no charges for Late Payment
I disagree. When two parties make a contract, they can agree on charges for late payment. How can you say that is not allowed in Islam?? Is such agreement AGAINST anything in ISlam? If it is, then say what it violates.
Late charges is not the same as interest, that is obvious. Loaning party does not EXPECT late payments.
My dear friend, I am 100% sure, that Islam doesnot allow charges like late payments., and even this Meezan Bank has accepted , you can see the schedule of charges., They said that all charges they cover they put in charity.
In other words, they have charges, but they take the money from you and give it to charity. So they still have late charges, as a penalty for YOU but not as a benefit for THEM.
lekin bhai jaan apny current account walun ko tu nahi bakhsha? unn k baray men kya hukam hai jo savings account aur savings scheme par milny wala sara profit charities/flood_relief funds men dy detay hein?
men phir kahun ga k iss hamam mein sab nangay hein.
There is v simple solution… If U Think it is a good offer and acc to islamic rules then go for it… And If U think This Profit like thing is not allow in islam… Then leave… Meezan bank is not forcing you to buy the laptops from them. Dil manta hai to le lo. Ni to rehne doo. Iss mai behas kerne ki kya zarurat.
There isn't a thing on earth sold with out profit motive.
میزان بینک کی جانب سے اچھی پیش کش ہے۔ خصوصاً ان لوگوں کے لیے جو لوڈشیڈنگ سے متاثر ہیں۔ اس سے نہ صرف دفاتر میں کام کرنے والے حضرات بلکہ طالب علم بھی فائدہ اٹھا سکتے ہیں۔
میزان بینک کی پیش کش کے سے بعض افراد کے خیال میں لیپ ٹاپ کی ریٹیل مارکیٹ پر منفی اثر پڑے گا۔ شاید اسی لیے حلال و حرام کی بحث میں الجھانے کی کوشش کی جارہی ہے۔
kya bachpana hai. janab apko har chez me koi na koi conspiracy theory nazar aati hai. zaid hamid ny tu apko depute nahi kya howa kya?
سچ کڑوا ہوتا ہے بھائی صاحب۔ آپ کے تبصرہ جات پڑھ کر تو یہ پوچھنے کا دل چاہتا ہے کہ آپ گلیکسی کمپیوٹر کے "پلانٹڈ" تو نہیں۔
aap pehly zaid hamid walay sawal ka jawab dein, phir men apky sawal ka jawab dunga :)
aakhir apko har chez me koi conspiracy kyu nazar aati hai?
Kya waqaee apka khayal hai k loug behasz iss liyay kar rahay k unhein retail market par manfi asraat ka khauf hai?
Just to smoother your fidgets, ill be talking about POP's prices. They are official HP distributors. And several shops in hafeez centre specify prices after consulting them.
sach karwa hota hai, bilkul usi tarah jaisy bey par ki urrana.
— They are official HP distributors. And several shops in hafeez centre specify prices after consulting them.
If a shop sells HP laptops for Rs 1k more than the rest, they are taking a risk: that people will pay extra to buy from them. But there is nothing unIslamic about charging more.
It is very interesting that you do not go into POP prices. If they are distributors, they CONTROL the prices. Your qazi should investigate them, not shop that sells for Rs 1k more.
janab aapki sari battein "begging for question logic" hein. Bhai ab apko mein kya kya baten samjhaon?
POP issues MSRP in terms of pak currency. Pata hai MSRP kya hota hai?
Zara kisi sy argument ka asloob sekh lo bhai. Jab rival statement deta hai, tu aap uski baat ka jawab dety hein pehly. usky baad koi aur baat karty hein.
aap mujy "mein na manun" k champion lagty hein.
I know what MSRP means, and I know it has nothing to do with actual cost of article sold. It is a suggested retail price, nothing more. If you buy an iPhone from Apple or Amazon.com or Best Buy in States, they all use Apple's provided MSRP. And that MSRP figure is over 50% profit for Apple.
MSRP very different from actual cost.
What POP says is MSRP can be several Rs thousands more than the cost POP pays their Asian supplier for the laptops. So, I ask again: why not investigate POP's pricing? How much profit is POP making here? Maybe if you see the figures you will think it is unjust profit. Who knows.
میں تو زید حامد کو دیکھتا تک نہیں لیکن آپ ان سے کچھ زیادہ ہی متاثر نظر آتے ہیں۔
میزان کی اس آفر سے ریٹیل مارکیٹ پر واقعی برا اثر پڑے گا۔ خصوصاً ان لوگوں کو جو دو نمبر مال بیچتے ہیں۔ اس کی وجہ بڑی سادی ہے کہ جو لوگ بیک وقت اتنے پیسے دے کر ریٹیل مارکیٹ سے لیپ ٹاپ نہیں خرید سکتے وہ باآسانی اس سہولت سے مستفید ہوسکتے ہیں۔
دوسری یہ بونگی کہ میزان والے دگنا قیمت لے رہے ہیں تو اس پر یہی کہا جاسکتا ہے کہ پپو ابھی بچہ ہے۔ دو جمع دو چار ہوتے ہیں ڈھائی نہیں۔
janab me uska naqqad hun. usy bhi apki tarah har chez me conspiracy nazar aati hei.
yahan aam loug discuss kar rahay hein, aur ap kehty hein k
"میزان بینک کی پیش کش کے سے بعض افراد کے خیال میں لیپ ٹاپ کی ریٹیل مارکیٹ پر منفی اثر پڑے گا۔ شاید اسی لیے حلال و حرام کی بحث میں الجھانے کی کوشش کی جارہی ہے۔"
Jo Chahay Aapka Husn-e-Karishma Saaz Karay
— usy bhi apki tarah har chez me conspiracy nazar aati hei.
Sorry, you are still confused. i see no conspiracy only misinformed commenters.
janab apko pata hai k ye zaid zaman hamid kya chez hai, jiski men baat kar raha hun?
(unless you are his fan, you should start investigating his past).
And he can see a conspiracy in almost everything.
Anyways, cricnama walay bhai kehty hein k (zara ghour tu karein)
"میزان بینک کی پیش کش کے سے بعض افراد کے خیال میں لیپ ٹاپ کی ریٹیل مارکیٹ پر منفی اثر پڑے گا۔ شاید اسی لیے حلال و حرام کی بحث میں الجھانے کی کوشش کی جارہی ہے۔"
bohat hi "informed" opinion hai. mein inki aur apki bareek beeni ka mu'tarif hun.
I have never trusted him.
@Shahid Saleem,
Kindly increase your knowledge regarding Sood / Riba / Interest.
What "pappu" bhai have written is absolutely correct in every essence.
If you dont have resources to read about Sood/Interest/Riba. Then read this:
Sir, no one has yet shown that what they do is interest, not you or pappu.
If a shop sells laptops for Rs 50k in one payment and Rs 54k for 10 payments, that is WITHOUT DOUBT interest. But Meezan bank does not sell in one payment. All the say is "We sell certain HP laptops for Rs 54k in 3-36 installments."
It has nothing to do with the rest of retail market. If retail market sold at Rs 55k and Meezan at Rs 54k, would you still consider it interest??? Maybe distributors give to retail and meezan at Rs 50k so retail makes 5k profit and Meezan 4k. Still interest???
Is Meezan buying from distributor? No. They are buying from middleman (Horizon) who is taking their cut of profits. Do you want Meezan to sell at 0% profit?
I grew up in Saudi Arabia, thank you I don't need someone to explain Riba concept to me. Instead, I ask you to read up on history of ISLAMIC CAPITALISM as practiced between 8th and 12th century. You might be surprised at what you learn. You could get a loan for 1,000 dirham and pay back 1,050 dirham, did you know that??? That is because they considered WEIGHT not COUNT of dirhams.
* janab aap Saudi Arabia men rehy hongy, does that make u an authority on the subject? Height of noobism.
* First off, who asked meezan to get laptops from New Horizon? POP is there and they are well known official distributors. On bulk deal, they shall obviously offer discount to Meezan. And a single unit shall cost Meezan lesser than what it costs in retail stores. Do you even know that retailers enjoy at least 5k-10k profit on each laptop they sell?
— janab aap Saudi Arabia men rehy hongy, does that make u an authority on the subject? Height of noobism.
No, it means I grew up in a different environment than here, and it means I learned from different sort of teachers. Get me?
— First off, who asked meezan to get laptops from New Horizon?
It is their business decision. Are you going to question everyone's business decisions today?? Why not question New Horizon's prices to???
— Do you even know that retailers enjoy at least 5k-10k profit on each laptop they sell?
Of course I know these things. But it is irrelevent to Meezan's pricing. The want Rs 59k for something you can find for Rs 53k in open market. Their choice to sell at that price. Your choice to buy or not buy.
I think you would buy in installments if it was same as retail price, evne if you could pay full price at one time? Am I right?
– no doubt you might have had different teachers, but, how come is it possible that they were better than pakistani teachers?
And if i talk about Saudi concept of Islam, people shall call me religious rioter.
– o bhai prices ko tu chorr do na, they say they are using musawwamah mode of conducting business. Pehly negotiability ki baat ho jaey which is part of musawwamah. And their prices are NOT negotiable. Ajeeb mussawwamah hai yei.
As far as prices of New Horizon are concerned, they dont over charge in the name of Islam. And their are many companies doing the same. Problem is, when someone justifies their actions using Islam. Hope you will get the gist this time around.
– If i can pay full price upfront, i will not go for installments. Otherwise, i will be happy to get a product on retail price with payment in form of installments. This is just like paying university fee in for of installments.
— no doubt you might have had different teachers, but, how come is it possible that they were better than pakistani teachers?
I did not say they were better, but are you at least open to the possiblity that they COULD BE better? In reality some of my teachers taught at Pakistan Embassy school so they were 100% Pakistanis.
But I did not mention that and look what you assumed!
— Pehly negotiability ki baat ho jaey which is part of musawwamah. And their prices are NOT negotiable. Ajeeb mussawwamah hai yei.
And I thank you for calling that up and clearifying that point with them.
— As far as prices of New Horizon are concerned, they dont over charge in the name of Islam.
You still call it overcharging, when it is simply profit. Higher profit than other retailers but nothing but profit. If you start talking about overcharging, then everyone in supply chain from factory onwards is overcharging, I guarantee you that.
— Problem is, when someone justifies their actions using Islam. Hope you will get the gist this time around.
Sure, but you still have to be careful what you say. It is not overcharging, or wrong to make more profit because customers have choice of buying cheaper from elsewhere. It is not fraud. Both things you said about Meezan.
— Otherwise, i will be happy to get a product on retail price with payment in form of installments.
I knew it :)
Nothing wrong with that.
And needless to remind you that imam-e-kaa'ba came to pakistan and praised Musharraf. Wah ji wah. So much about Saudi Arabia. O bhai wo waqt guzar gaya jab Arab world was house of Islam.
— And needless to remind you that imam-e-kaa'ba came to pakistan and praised Musharraf.
What does that mean? The imam praised Musharraf means there's no Islam in all of Saudi Arabia? Whats your point exactly?
— O bhai wo waqt guzar gaya jab Arab world was house of Islam.
And where do you think Islam is now? Islamabad, where a bodyguard can kill the governer?
– sir Muslim ka kaam hai k jabir hukmaraan k samny kalima-e-haq buland kary, na k uski tareef. Bas itna hi kaafi hai warna muj par kufr ka fatwa lagy ga.
– And Islam isn't there anywhere, as it used to be in old times. These are hard times. Aren't they?
Fazool behas hai…
Jisay lena hai lo aur jisay nahi lena woh mat le… Jahan tak baat hai ke sahee kia hai aur ghalat kia to let different schools have their own interpretation…
Janab-e-Qadri bhi to Salman Taseer ke qatal ke baad kuch logon ke liye hero hain aur kisi ke liye kutay ka putar… is liye let the Allah decide who is right and who is not…
The shariah board of Meezan bank has lot of prolific Islamic scholars as well…
All those who are so outspokenly rating it as sood, I just have one question. How many of you are not using conventional banking and then in the name of the argument "ke hum sirf current account use karte hain" they make it clean from sood…
har aik se guzarish hai ke apna Islam apne tak rakho aur doosre ka doosre ke pass rehne do… and I said apna and doosra just because we have lots of versions of Islam only in our country…
What they also dont realize is that even if they use current account, the bank can still lend their money out for loans and get interest payments.
So, they (current account holders) get no interest (er i mean heh heh fake Profit/Loss) but bank sure does from their money.
* My question. Suppose you lend your car to a friend, and he over-runs someone on road while he was drunk/sleepy. Should you be tried for murder as well?
Please answer this question, and i will let you know whats the point i want to make.
I am tired of these question/answer games, pappu. I'll complete what you started.
What if you give your car to someone, and they use your car to do shopping? Do you deserve a share of what they bought? Of course not. But when you put money in a bank account, in a current account, the bank will use your money to give loans and earn interest. What is the difference between shopping and interest? Interest is haram and you are trying to avoid it.
Are you succeeding in avoiding it? No. That is my point. That is Maximusss point about avoiding sood.
When you open current account, did you sign a statement that said your funds cannot be used for bank loans?
In Islamic banking system, current account = your loan to bank, which they can use for generating business. In other banking system, current account = money bank uses to earn interest.
Generally, no return is given on current accounts on the grounds that such deposits take the form of loans given to Islamic banks and the loans cannot carry any return. They are kept as Amaanah; but if the proceeds of such accounts are used by banks in their business, they are treated as loans that have to be paid back without any increase or decrease.
janab kya abhi tak apny kisi baat ka jawab diya bhi hai? har bar ek nayi kahani shuru kar dety ho? mene jo question poocha, uska jawab kahan gaya?
tumhara time waste howa ya nahi, mera zaroor howa hai.
I will simply answer your question:
"you are not responsible if your friend uses your car to kill someone by accident."
unless, of course, you knew your friend was already drunk or was planning on drinking or maybe didn't have a license or already had hit/killed someone in the past. Then, you did NOT use good judgement when lending car and you bare responsibility for putting lethal weapon (car) in hands of impaired person.
Got your answer??
— tumhara time waste howa ya nahi, mera zaroor howa hai.
and yet, you keep returning for more…
I keep returning because my question was never answered. Call Meezan and put the question ive told you to ask. Pata nahi apko kya khouf hai k aap 5-10 roppay ki call nahi kar sakty? mob no. do men balance send karta hun rs.50 ka.
Whether islamic banking (so called) or the other type of banking, all have their ways and means. Ab men UBL me account rakhun ya MBL, does it make a difference? At least UBL does not hide the interest they feed on.
MBL ki example apky samnee hai, even if you are afraid to admit the fact that they are misguiding people. Mujy bataeon k men trust karun kiss par?
Moreover, unn banks k baray men kya hukam hai jo interest based banking bhi karty hein aur islamic banking bhi?
aap utility services k bill kahan jama karwatay hein?
— Pata nahi apko kya khouf hai k aap 5-10 roppay ki call nahi kar sakty?
I do not understand your mentality, pappu. A few comments above I asked you to call. You called and confirmed that they do not negotiate. I thanked you for your information. I recommended that you file a complaint. You asked why I didn't complain. I explained that I don't plan to take up their offer anyway. I do not know the State Bank rules but in courts if someone files a claim, they look at if the person was affected. I am not a potential customer so I cannot be affected so if I file any claim it will be rejected.
So why still asking me why I won't call??? I DON'T NEED THEIR SERVICE, I HAVE ACCEPTED YOUR ANSWER. Why do I have to do anything else??
— At least UBL does not hide the interest they feed on.
Yes, but Maximusss point and mine was that people who TRY to use current accounts to avoid PLS STILL FAIL TO AVOID INTEREST. Pay attention to subthread.
— MBL ki example apky samnee hai, even if you are afraid to admit the fact that they are misguiding people.
I don't fear admitting the truth, and I will also admit to being annoyed by ignorance.
You were wrong about consumer courts. Read the law.
You were wrong about what MSRP means and how it relates to cost.
You were wrong about your "overcharging" and "too much interest" being unIslamic.
You have yet to admit that you were wrong. Who is afraid now? Who was ignorant before reading my posts?
There are 97 comments so far, i have lost track where a new one was posted. so you have to be bit lenient here :)
*according to the URL you posted, about the consumer courts jurisdiction, wait till i get word from some lawyer.
*and i dont understand what makes you think that my point about MSRP is wrong?
* i have commented on profit-taking issue at least 2-3 times. if you think that seller can demand any amount of profit, mafias need not to resort to hoarding. They should be practicing their right you have talked about. Please let me mention it again that primary reason of hoarding is to create problems with supply so that prices could rise resulting in increased profit which would not be possible otherwise.
* I told you that MBL is not following musawwamah in its true spirit. Why cant you confirm that yourself? I might be telling a lie.
And, i guess, its a hadith that a Muslim should investigate first, when a fellow brings a piece of news to him. Thats the reason i want you to call them. Moreover, if multiple people call them asking the same question, they may consider correcting their mistake.
* In my observation, all local banks whether islami or non-islami, are doing the same. They have their ways and means.
I have another reasoning here. Islamic banking system conceived by modern scholars offers everything that interest-based banking does. For me, there has to be something fishy. There has to be something that cant be Islam-compliant.
At the same time, i fully understand that my bank can use my money for conducting their interest based business. But, i am not enjoying anything from that amount of interest.
Please note that its the business of liquor / wine where ANYONE related to the business, is subject to punishment. For instance, if someone just transports wine, and never tasted even a drop of it, he shall still be punished.
If someone mis-uses my money, which was 'imaanat', it does not make me subject to punishment.
I hope i will be able to find someone from jamia naeemiyaa in order to get my answers more elaborated. (or, correct myself if im wrong). Pertinent to mention that it was one of the few madrissahs which fully condemned terrorist activity in garb of religion. So, i trust it.
— if you think that seller can demand any amount of profit, mafias need not to resort to hoarding.
There are no mafias here. No cartels. No price fixing. It is one retail seller selling hp laptops for Rs 5k more than other retail sellers. No hoarding, no driving prices up, that's it.
When you walk into a market to buy vegetables, fruit, anything, do you expect all shops to ask for the same price for all goods? No? Wlecome to the real world.
The more you (and others comment) the more Aamir Atta makes from web page ads. Does that bother you too?
Other people making money upsets you. I don't know why.
— Why cant you confirm that yourself?
I can pick up the phone and confirm or deny. But, why? I wont call because it doesn't make any difference to me. Because I will not benefit or loose from the information. I did not plan on buying HP laptop either before I read about their offer or after. I am not calling of the same reason I do not call every company after seeing their adds in the newspaper or on TV.
— At the same time, i fully understand that my bank can use my money for conducting their interest based business. But, i am not enjoying anything from that amount of interest.
It is one thing when you don't know how your money will be used and later finding out it was used for a sin (interest). It is a completely other thing when you know beforehand. This is the second case.
Remember what I said about baring responsibility when lending car to someone you know is impaired?
janab aap profit men sellers ko man-mani ki khuli chutti de rahay hein. isi liyay mene hoarding etc. ko mention kya hai. agar apko abhi tak samajh nahi ayi tu mera kya qasoor?
ilfaaz k bajaee concept par tawajju dein janab. bhais k agay bein baja baja kar men tu thak gya hun.
And i have already mentioned that its the liquor business where everyone involved in the business is subject to punishment.
If bank is using my money to offer interest-based products, and im not benefiting from interest etc., i am not subject to punishment enacted for those who feed on interest.
And you are lecturing me on "bearing responsibility", but don't have the guts to call Meezan and confront them. What a hypocrite. Now this is the point, where you dont deserve any more responses.
Go ahead, and follow Aizaz's advice. He actually makes sense now.
— If bank is using my money to offer interest-based products, and im not benefiting from interest etc., i am not subject to punishment enacted for those who feed on interest.
If you drive someone to a bank where he robs it, are you responsible for HELPING rob the bank? No one will say you arent (except you I guess). So here, you put money in a bank to help them ROB the poor, and you think you have no responsibility? What kind of blindness is this?
"Intention", do you understand the word? "Knowledge," do you understand that?? If you KNOW their INTENT is wrong, and you still HELP them, in what way are you NOT RESPONSIBLLE?
Funny, you call me a hypocrite for not calling bank, but you don't call yourself hypocrite for not calling anyone who advertises anything or runs for office under name of Islam. Don't ask me to do what you will not do.
— Now this is the point, where you dont deserve any more responses.
Remeber, I am able to admit when I am wrong. You are not. Also, if you don't ask the lawyer about your mistaken interpretation of consumer courts law or what the jamia naeemiyaa said, then you are not True To Your Word.
apka time save karny hi k liyay mein keh raha hun k zara meezan ko call karein, aur unn sy poochein k agar prices negotiable hi nahin hein tu ke musawwamah ka concept kahan sy aa gaya. mazeed ye poochein k kya unko Islam ki bunyaad par logon ko gumrah karny par sharm aati hai ya nahi? ye bhi poochein k kya janab mufti taqi usmani ya unka beta aap sy iss mozo' par baat karny k liyay waqt nikalay ga?
* Janab kuch Islamic banking walay Islam k naam par khilwaar kar rahay hein. Agar iss deal men Meezan ny musawwamah ka naam liya hai tu zara unn sy call kar k poocho k are their prices negotiable at all? Mein Mr. Shahid Saleem sy baar baar yehi sawal kar chuka hun magar hanuz jawab ka muntazir hun.
* Moreover, there is no such thing as "version of Islam". Difference between different people are based on opinion/interpretation of certain matters.
Can anybody please tell me that what is bargaining? Is bargaining is not only buyers right…?
Yahan pappu bhai ne bargaining bargaining lagayee huwee hai… what I see on the website they bargain you with the term you choose to have the installment of… bargaining does not mean that you have to buy it any case… bargain is when you try to make other agree and if he does not agree, there is no deal… Just simple…
Meezan bank offers the bargain of whatever suits the buyer… Pappu bhai aap ne to sari dunya ke karobar ko najayez hee karar de dia hai…
Baherhaal mere pyare pappu, aap beshak Meezan bank se na lein laptop aur aap beshak us ke haram hone ka sari dunya main dhandhora peetein aur chahe kufr ka fatwa sadir farmayein… jis ne lena hai woh to le ga… chahe aap ko qadri hero lagta hai ya _______ … please keep ur Islam to u and other to others… Plz PEACE…
[Comment Edited[
Negotiation is supposed to be done b/w seller and buyer, and its on price, not number of installments. Price set hogi tu installments ayein gi na. Aur zara MBL ki website par chart chek karo. Fixed prices janab. Call karu na unn ko.
mera saari dunya k karoobar sy koi leena dena nahi. Mujy takleef uss waqt hoti hai jab koi Islam k naam par dhooka deta hai, aur phie unky taraf daar bhi nikaal atay hein jaisy barsaat ka mausam ho.
MBL ki apni website par likha hai
"Laptop Finance is based on the concept of Musawamah which is a general and regular kind of sale in which price of the commodity to be traded is bargained between seller and the buyer without any reference to the price paid or cost incurred by the former. "
umeed hai apki tasalli abhi bhi nahi hogi.
great news.
93 comments, an so far, no one bothered to call Meezan except me. What a disappointment. These sofa-based intellectuals are indeed ruining my time. No wonder Islam is a toy(nauzbillah) these days unfortunately. Banks, terrorists, govt., etc use religion to exact their agendas and people seem not to bother much.
I am not going to get a world cup to keep returning to this blog post, and make new comments. All i want is to establish a fact that MBL is manipulating things.
Propakistani is a popular blog. Soon, strings like "laptop financing in pakistan" shall display this post in search results.
You can go to the Banking Muhtasib and tell him your grievances. Send an email to State Bank. Write a full blog post about it and post the link here, so people can use it as reference.
…posting again with correction and additions…
93 comments, and so far, no one bothered to call Meezan except me. What a disappointment. These sofa-based intellectuals are indeed ruining my time. No wonder Islam is a toy(nauzbillah) these days unfortunately. Banks, terrorists, govt., etc use religion to exact their agendas and people seem not to bother much.
I am not going to get a world cup to keep returning to this blog post, and make new comments. All i want is to establish a fact that MBL is manipulating things.
Propakistani is a popular blog. Soon, strings like "laptop financing in pakistan" shall display this blog post in search results (im not talking about my posts).
Meezan bank says:
Laptop Finance is based on the concept of Musawamah which is a general and regular kind of sale in which price of the commodity to be traded is bargained between seller and the buyer without any reference to the price paid or cost incurred by the former(i.e. seller).
And they have NO room for price negotiation, at all, as i write my post.
What kind of Islam is it? Meezan's version 2011? Any proponents bothered calling them yet?
We can find a workaround to almost anything these days. For instance, many people justify profit in national savings schemes. they say that with time, purchasing power of money is deteriorated. So, profit earned from savings schemes compensates for that depreciation.
If this argument is correct, banks should use it to legitimize their interest based products.
As far as I know… if you cannot buy something and someone else is buying it for you and in return asks for his fees then it is OK. It is his money that is being invested not yours. If you forfeit, then what happens. You return a depreciated laptop to him which might be worth peanuts considering how fast the technology moves. The bank needs to protect its finances in one way or other while running its operations.
The additional that you will pay on those laptops are not for owners. It pays salaries and overhead expenses. As far as I have learnt, if the laptop is Bank's property and the Bank offers it for a premium, there is nothing wrong in it. The Bank is selling you the laptops in deferred payments. As you are the aggrieved party, your right of negotiation would be less.
Janab-e-Pappu – jab aap ne meezan bank call kee to unhon ne kia kaha… would u like to tell us aur yeh bhi bataye ga ke call center call kee thee ya shariah board call kee thee…
Ho sakta hai aap un ka qibla darust kar dein ya woh aap ka point of view…
ok g the Winner is Pappu :) and now he can also dance :p (but pappu can't dance ….. papoo nach nehi sakta )
core i7 are avalible???
The market cost seems to too high as Meezan bank assigned for each laptop model. I have searched few of them laptops but current market prices which are available in market are far cheap than Meezan Bank
you are right jahanzaib.
prices are way too high than market price.
every model price (meezan bank)differs almost 10-15k from market value.
this is one kind of fraud,i presume.
— this is one kind of fraud,i presume.
Profit is not fraud. I can buy anything at wholesale rate from factory and sell it to you for whatever price I want. You are free to buy or not buy.
bhai ji
* price is printed on disposable bottles/cans. if a food chain charges you more than that, get a receipt with serial number and date. Rest is my head-ache. I am saying it after consulting it. (unless you go to a restaurant that gives rs.12 pepsi). I am saying it all after consulting someone who practices law.
* overcharging is a relative term. Islam did not lay down exact rules of profit margin because it did not want to mess up market forces. There are scholars who do not put any limits on amount of profit one can earn. For instance, Justic usmani who is head of Meezan's sharia board. but again, scholars of this stream have no problems charging late payment fee and then putting it in charity. Similarly, these scholars dont find a problem when islamic banking system lays down the basis of its profit rations on the interest rates issued in London.
Long story short, if a seller is allowed to charge any amount of profit, this means all sellers can charge any amount of profit. if all sellers start charging profit to their heart's content, life will be hell for buyers.
While Islam does not specify profit margins, its state's responsibility to act as the watchdog and protect consumers from wrath of greedy sellers.
Please note that if you still do not understand my logic, not a problem.
* And the third thing was about musawwamah claim of Meezan and you already know what is wrong with that.
Pappu! Why don't you start with Meezan Bank by suing them…?
Do not wait for anybody to get things straight for you… The kind of inflexibility and attacks on others' belief that has been shown here calls for a trigger to start bringing Meezan onto justice…
janab hakeem-ul-ummat Maximusss sahib!
janab maulana shahid saleem med-zilla sahib!
Did i ask others to sue them? No. I just asked others to call them for clarification. Do you know why?
I cant sue them unless i utilize the objectionable service i.e. get a laptop from them on installments.
Well, your brilliant minds shall ask me a question here. If I was not interested in Meezan's deal, why did i even bother to start an argument? Well, I have already mentioned that if someone is manipulating facts, in name of religion, i shall raise my voice. And everyone else should unless they are busy elsewhere.
Other possibility is to write a formal letter to authorities telling them that Meezan is manipulating facts. For the purpose, I need to first contact Meezan's management specifically shariah board and attach their response with my complaint/letter. And so far, i am not able to reach anyone. (maybe, they will respond if pro-pakistani tries).
As a side note, it is height of stubbornness that you cant even make them a phone call but direct me to go ahead and sue them. You should run for president or prime minister.
Like rulers, like nation.
— Like rulers, like nation.
Like nation, like rulers. Run for office, pappu! I won't vote for you, but maybe someone else will feel "responsible".
— if a food chain charges you more than that, get a receipt with serial number and date. Rest is my head-ache.
You call me a hypocrite for not calling Meezan? By the same reasoning I call you a hypocrite for not going to a food chain and suing on your own. Why haven't you done that yet? After consulting "someone who practices law", aren't you guaranteed success?
Be sure to try it and report your progress. I'm sure it'll be in the papers.
— Long story short, if a seller is allowed to charge any amount of profit, this means all sellers can charge any amount of profit. if all sellers start charging profit to their heart's content, life will be hell for buyers.
Here is where your "theory" fails in "practice" because you don't look outside your window. All sellers charge whatever profit they want to. ALL OF THEM. EVEN VEGETABLE AND FRUIT SELLERS. That is how it was in the past, that is how it was in Islamic States, that is how it is now, that is how it will be tomorrow. Like you said, there is no Islamic ruling on the matter. So, on WHAT BASIS can a government "protect" the rights of the people by controlling prices?
Again: this is not about price fixing. It is not about cartels. It is not about hoarding. If everyone in one industry decided on one price, then it would be a problem, but this is about one company selling one product at a higher price than others. FOCUS ON THE REAL WORLD. I ask you, since you like to call me and others hypocrites, do you ALWAYS PAY THE LOWEST PRICE FOR ANYTHING YOU BUY? No? Didn't think so.
By the way I checked several local web sites for one of the laptops. I got prices from between Rs 49,000 and Rs 54,000. By YOUR REASONING anyone charging more than the lowest price Rs 49,000 is evil profiteer. Where's the "wrath of greedy sellers" in this case? Nowhere. Feel free to fly to Karachi to buy at Rs 49,000.
* janab, if others have to do everything, what is your use? And do you remember that you advised me to bear responsibility? i did not tell anything of that sort to you. So onus of suing mischievous people is primarily on you, not me. Now that i have told you to get a proper receipt, you have started a whole new story. Typical behavior, since the beginning. Sorry, but i still cant find a word more soft than "hypocrisy" to explain your attitude.
But guess what? I knew something already. You dont have the money to make a local phone call. Why should i even expect you to go to a restaurant at all? Seems like i will have to send you a free meal voucher first.
And if you only wanted to give a lame excuse at the end, why even bothered pasting the URL of consumer courts law? :D
Just for bit of a change?
* You are still stuck in rights of seller. Why is going to discuss the rights of buyer? MY question is still the same. If all sellers start charging huge profits, considering it their right, what will happen to buyers? And if Islam allows any amounts of profit, why do people even resort to hoarding? Just for fun? Cant they just practice their right to charge any profit?
I told you that if you dont get my point still, leave it aside. You, and scholars of your sort, keep on parroting the right of seller to charge profit as he pleases to. Who is going to discuss the rights of buyers?
When sugar mafia was being prosecuted in supreme court, they claimed that they were earning only their rightful profit and that prices were rising as a result of market forces. Competition commission brought proof that there was a cartel which influenced prices in order to earn higher profit which was not possible otherwise. I think you should be the lawyer of sugar mills. Your theory of profit-taking can surely help them earn profit to their heart's content.
You keep telling me to focus on the real world. Your own world is limited to Meezan. Whenever i talk about the mentality underlying common business crimes like hoarding, cartels etc, you dutifully start talking about Meezan and Meezan only.
The things like hoarding, price fixing etc are products of greedy minds longing for more and more profit. If religion indeed allows them to earn ANY amount of profit, why do they even resort to commit business crimes? Cant they get a simple permission from shariah courts endorsing their right to earn ANY amount of profit?
Islam does not put a floor or ceiling on profit. This is because its simply not possible to list down all commodities and mention their prices. Its the responsibility of state to check if any seller is mis-using its rights. Hence, watchdog instruments like competition commission, trade ministries and price control committees etc. Sometimes, govt. directly intervenes to set prices and sometimes, allows cheaper imports when immediate action is needed. For instance, to deal with unfair local cars industry, govt. of Pak allowed import of vehicles older than 5 years.
You are simply too young to understand the difference between fair and unfair profit. Need another example? Ever read KSA steel industry news? When local steel industry starts getting out of control while setting quotations for local and foreign buyers, the Saudi govt allows cheaper imports without any import duty/tariff. This is a common practice in steel manufacturing countries. If sellers can charge any amount of profit, why does Saudi govt. intervene at all? Are they depriving sellers off their rights, as per your theory?
Note that when i say cheaper imports, i mean low priced material, not low quality/substandard material.
As a side note, in my opinion, profit is privilege of a seller, not his right. Rights can be practiced in almost any way but privileges are subject to certain constraints.
The more you write, the more you make it obvious that you are not talking sense.
— janab, if others have to do everything, what is your use? [] So onus of suing mischievous people is primarily on you, not me.
You sound like a troll. You will tell me to call and you will tell me to sue and you will do nothing. I didn't plan on suing because I don't think it is a valid case, you said you would sue and you claim you got legal advice, but now you say it's someone else's responsibility.
Who first wrote about suing? Who first wrote about consumer courts? You. You offered to sue SEVERAL TIMES, and now you say the responsibility for suing is mine, not yours. Now you want me to sue. Why? Isn't it your responsibility to follow up on your actions? All you need is a receipt? So go get one.
Because If I Give you a receit (email me [email protected] if you are really interested), and you do not sue and WIN, then it will be worst for your reputation, weak already it is.
Your lawyer friend thinks you can win? So, go ahead and sue. My reading of the law says I can't. There is no case. Read the law yourself and see. Or put your money where your mouth is, pappu, and do yourself what you advise others to do: sue. Why should I do something I don't think will succeed?
I never offered to call and I never offered to sue. I do not hide my comments above, you can ctrl-f and search. You said you would do both. So, sue, troll.
— If all sellers start charging huge profits, considering it their right, what will happen to buyers?
One more time because you obviously cannot read: NO ONE HERE IS TALKING ABOUT "ALL" SELLERS EXCEPT YOU. I have made it clear again and again: no price fixing. no cartel. no monopoly. no mafia. IN THIS CASE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT ONE SELLER, NOT ALL.
Read that again until it sinks into your head.
What happens in REAL LIFE and what has happened for CENTURIES is very simple: the sellers ask for what the buyers will pay. If there is a mismatch, either the sellers lower their rates or the buyers buy less. Today calls are less than Rs 1/minute and people pay. In the past when it was Rs 3.50/minute people still payed didn't they?
— And if Islam allows any amounts of profit, why do people even resort to hoarding?
The two things are NOT CONTRADICTORY. Islam does not set a limit for profit at the same time Islam is against hoarding. THAT CLEARLY TELLS YOU ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW THAT YOUR VIEWPOINT IS FAKE AND DOES NOT MATCH REALITY. You can sell for as much as you want if you are not hoarding. You are still stuck on this "hoarding" and "mafia" issue and don't see the REAL WORLD for what it is.
You think I am young? I am almost 40. i've lived in Middle East, Europe, US, and PAkistan. I have seen different economies, different strategies. You are ignoring all that.
— I think you should be the lawyer of sugar mills.
Wonderful! Now I am jewish telecom AND sugar lawyer with american passport!
— Whenever i talk about the mentality underlying common business crimes like hoarding, cartels etc, you dutifully start talking about Meezan and Meezan only.
So hit Ctrl-F and search for mafia. Who said the word? You. search for hoarding, price etc. Who said that, you. EVERYONE EXCEPT YOU IS COMPLAINING ABOUT MEEZAN ("ONE SELLER") PRICES. ONLY YOU ARE FIXING ON "MAFIA". There is no mafia here. There is only one seller. You want to keep talking about laptop mafia, go ahead. There isn't one, troll.
— Cant they get a simple permission from shariah courts endorsing their right to earn ANY amount of profit?
All that is not haram is either halal or makruh. YOU SAID there is no law in Islam limiting profit (if there is no hoarding). Thus, no one needs permission. Did you fail logic or do you think MEezan is hoarding?
— Islam does not put a floor or ceiling on profit. This is because its simply not possible to list down all commodities and mention their prices.
How do you know WHY or WHY NOT there is no limit on profit in Islam? Is that your SCHOLARLY OPINION or are you simply guessing? I think guessing.
— As a side note, in my opinion, profit is privilege of a seller, not his right
Listen troll, if profit is not a right of seller, no one will sell. Because what is a "right" cannot be taking away, but what is a "privilege" can.
When i talk about Meezan, you start talking about their right to earn any amount of profit. When i talk about the fact that sellers cant have unchecked right to earn profit (because if they do, why on earth do they resort to hoarding etc.), you start talking about Meezan that they are not hoarding. When i talk about things in general, you move to specifics. When i move to specifics, you move the other way round. What else a troll is? You have always been losing control on yourself, like calling others kiddo, troll etc. That is why i said that once you grow up, you shall understand many things on your own.
And janab do you even know that in Islam, almost everything is basically a privilege? You were sent to live on earth and it is a privilege. Not your right. Otherwise, people would never want to die by citing their right to live on earth. Talk about right/privilege to earn profit. I am just speechless. I guess common sense is not that common.
And let me inform that even if you were president of United States at a point in time, does it make you better than me? Previously, you wanted to talk about being educated in Saudi Arabia. I just do not understand it.
Let me quote someone here
""On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog"" – Peter Steiner
Long story short, bhai fast university ka student raha hai na? batch 2003? aur age phir bhi 40? yar apko pata hai k jhootay ki gawahi kahin qabool nahi hoti?
ab men SAHICS ki mailing list par sab post karunga aur apky office men apsy mulaqat hogi.
I dont need to continue any more here. I can talk to you face to face. Moreover, you have/or are, earning from stock exchange. Maulana, aisi salary k halal hony par tabsara kareny.
You wrote your email, and i have a positive ID.
And do you think i am that mad to return to this blog post to make comments? I did not even write my correct name. This is because, i dont care for my repute on something artificial called internet. And i dont need a certificate from you. Allah knows best if i am honest, or just a troll on this blog post.
Please note that this is not a personal attack. He is accusing everyone for keeping accounts with banks that deal in interest. Does it suit him when he is himself earning from stock exchange?
I dont ask him to stop posting here. He should continue whatever he likes. It is a free world. Isnt it?
— You have always been losing control on yourself, like calling others kiddo, troll etc.
Well, I am older than you, and your reasoning ("not responsible when lending car to someone who cause accident") is a silly illogical argument.
— And janab do you even know that in Islam, almost everything is basically a privilege?
And yet you still talk about "buyers rights" not "buyers privileges." This is also why I think you are troll — you hide behind different words when its suits you.
— yar apko pata hai k jhootay ki gawahi kahin qabool nahi hoti?
followed by
— I did not even write my correct name.
Well, so much for honesty on your part.
Still waiting for your email.
janab, pappu is my pen name for all news sites/blogs. This is because i can differentiate b/w real world and artificial environment (like internet). You might be crazy about things like reputation on internet, i am not. I did not disclose my correct/actual name…because i chose not to. How come does it make me a liar?
Email sent ages ago…fikar na kar bhai…email k ilawa mere office pohanch janay ka intazar bhi karo. You shall continue to do whatever it takes to enforce your opinion no matter how flawed is it. After all, you are one of those who believe that argument me jhot bolna jaiz hai jaisy jang mein sab kuch jaiz hai.
baat sirf ye hai k Qur'an me koi ayah nahi hai, aur janab aap (kuch scholars ki tarah) sellers k liyay man mani ka darwaza khol rahay hein.
ek aur baat bataen janab k since it is established, that you have told lies, why should one believe in anything that you have been talking about.
hamay keh diya k current account ka paisa sood k liyay use hota hai, apni salary ka nahi pata? Ab kisi scholar ka fatwa utha lana jawab mein. Because "mein na manun" is ur trademark attitude.
tumhy "buyer rights" ki term pehly nazar nahi ayi? jab mene rights/priveleges ki baat ki (aur ye bhi likha k its MY opinion), you point it out at once? yar barr bar kisi ko troll kehny sy koi troll nahi ho jata. Ajeeb baat hai, jiski baat pasand na ayi, uss ko troll, kiddo etc. kehna shuru kar do. aur besharmi ki intihaa hai k jhoot pakra bhi gaya magar aap ko koi afsoos hi nahi.
tum sy discussion me mene ek hi chez dekhi hai "sawal gandum, jawab chana".
— Email sent ages ago…fikar na kar bhai…email k ilawa mere office pohanch janay ka intazar bhi karo
Oh, sorry, didnt think to check spam folder http://imgur.com/a/j8xSU
Hmm, I wonder where your "it" link goes to … http://www.khanapakana.com/userfiles/yawar/girgit.jpg
— janab, pappu is my pen name for all news sites/blogs. I did not disclose my correct/actual name…because i chose not to. How come does it make me a liar?
and later
— ek aur baat bataen janab k since it is established, that you have told lies
What lies? Never posted to this forum about anything you said about me.
Ha ha, one rule for you and one for the rest of the world? Lots of people dont give fb their real data. I was messing on fb and for that you call me atheist or qadiyani? Ha ha ha
Oh man. Now we see you.
* Shahid Saleem says:
May 1, 2011 at 12:01 am
"Still no email from your side??"
lekin….ye kya…………
But you were somehow able to post my screen name on your wall anways :D
guru aap mahan hein…………
And is it difficult at all to move an email from inbox to spam? Dhookay par dhooka…wah ji wah. Mazeed kitna jhoot bolo gy bhai?
ab keh dena k time zones ka issues hai or some gibberish like that :)
You were 'ONLY' messing on FB and ended up writing that you were FAST alumni?
Kya lame excuse hai :P
Kya jobs isi tarah companies ko dhookay dy kar li hein?
When i sent my very first email, at around 11:15Pm on saturday, i added you to my yahoo friend's list and on-site address book. And on 11:45Pm, you posted me a welcome message :P
Moreover, isn't it strange that email from a yahoo account went to spam on the recipient yahoo account? Now, you shall say that you have set spam filter to paranoid mode (maybe because it reflects you more :)
And the following part is not for Mr. Shahid Saleem, the person who does not even know the conditions of divorce, let alone shariah, profit/loss, islamic banking etc. Further, a repeat offender, who feels no remorse in telling a lie over and over, is ousted from discussion. But i know that he shall not stop. He is just too worried about his reputation here. (I dont know why is he so sensitive).
My inferences
– Needless to say that to date, NO one bothered to call Meezan. My point is established that they are mischievous in their laptop installments offer.
– Islamic banking, as we know it today, is closer to being a scam. For instance, they charge late payment fee which is against shariah. Why do they charge it in first place, even if they give it to charity later? They contaminate money of all their account holders.
Another objection is that they use LIBOR as benchmark. (No saleemi logic please or aqal-e-saleem). Even taqi usmani admitted that islamic banking should have its own mechanism instead of relying on LIBOR.
And some islami banks pay to scholars to stay on their shariah/advisory boards etc. Why should i believe that such a scholar will not have his sympathies with his employer bank?
And banks show fatwas that endorse their products. They dont mention the fatwas that go against their banking products.
Some banks offer interest based and islamic banking services at the same time. This is yet another reason to believe that something is fishy.
– Employees of banks, exchanges, insurance corporations etc. get salary from the money generated via objectionable means. Such people should rethink their choices. For instance, in case of a bank, the money of interest charged by the bank, becomes their property in form of salary.
– Living on earth is our privilege, not right. Allah sent us to earth, and He calls us back. When we talk about our rights, we actually talk about our privileges while we are on earth. These privileges are set by Allah and only He can withdraw them. There is a reason for this philosophy. When we talk about rights, we think that we get full freedom in that respect. This means that our actions are prone to mis-use of those rights. We can avoid most of the pit falls once we realize that the rights we talk about, are just privileges set for us by Allah.
– If a seller has the "right" to earn any amount of profit by means of adjusting his asking price, he can be greedy at any point in time. That's where over-charging/rip-off instances occur. Islam did not specify profit margins because its does not suit a religion to issue price lists of commodities. However, Islam did not leave buyer's community in wilderness. Govt./state has the responsibility to counter business crimes for the sake of consumer protection.
wallahu A'alamu.
You are good at deliberately mixing everything up. About Meezan, i said that they were hiding interest in their deal but calling it musawwamah. Since their deal does not have any windows of negotiation, (musawwamah means price negotiation b/w seller and buyer irrespective of cost incurred by seller), Meezan's deal is out of realm of islami banking. And when it is out of realm of Islami banking, it is interest based banking. Simple as that. Dont forget that Meezan is not selling laptops after buying them from New Horizon. Meezan shall provide financing. New Horizon is the seller. As the banking partner, Meezan is charging interest since it is not musawwamah.
You admitted that Meezan's deal was not musawwamah but said that Meezan's deal is just normal trade in which they are charging high prices because seller can earn any amount of profit. This is what i differ with. A seller, if allowed to charge any amount of profit, is free to put buyers in nut cracker. If all sellers, especially of a market that is not perfectly competitive, start doing that, they shall be better off but buyers shall be worse off. Note that if a seller starts over charging, he goes against market forces. and equilibrium shifts because of his greed. If Allah did not write an ayah in Qur'an, it does not mean that selling behavior can go unchecked. If sellers have rights, buyers also have their respective ones. That is why, i say that it is responsibility of the state to control sellers when they are over charging. No one has problems with rightful profit in trade, when it gets too much, over charging is what i call it. But yeah, you will still say that seller can earn any profit by setting prices to his discretion. In a perfectly competitive market, he might go out of business but in other type of market, he shall surely inspire other sellers and prices shall jump and the reason shall be greed, not market forces.
* And its good that you looked for laptop prices (and that too, via internet so that you dont have to spend on a phone call). Did you not notice that Meezan's chart has corei5 priced higher than a corei7?
If a store is charging 49k-54k (price of laptop with warranty, is bit higher than that without warranty, and exchange rates also ) for a certain model, they are earning certain profit. And when they go nuts, and ask more than 0.1 million for a corei5 laptop, they become Meezan/New Horizon.
Since you might start talking about technical stuff like so called second generation processors, let me mention it before hand that sandy bridge has problems with SATA. Maybe this is the reason that New Horizon cum Meezan offer 2 year warranty. Pertinent to mention that importers are companies like POP. New Horizon is just enterprise business solution providers (like those who set up who computer sections of a company etc by providing workstations, thin clients, servers etc).
— A seller, if allowed to charge any amount of profit, is free to put buyers in nut cracker. If all sellers, especially of a market that is not perfectly competitive, start doing that, they shall be better off but buyers shall be worse off.
Here we go again. THERE IS NO WAY ONE SELLER CAN CONTROL THE MARKET IF THERE ARE ALTERNATES. Are there alternates? Sure. So your point about profit is yet again wrong.
ONE SELLER CAN CHARGE WHATEVER HE WANTS TO. ONE SELLER WHO HAS MONOPOLY CAN BE CONTROLLED BY STATE. Why is that concept so hard for you to understand???
How you jump from "a seller" to "all sellers" is mystery. When you go to market, do all your vegetable shops sell potatoes at same price??? And yet you don't say the government should step in but when it comes to laptops, you become strange. Pointless paragraphs about greed and whatever. If one shop sells potatoes at Rs 10 more than other, you just walk to second shop. If Meezan sells laptops at Rs 5k more than other, you just walk to other place. Simple. Get over your greed issue.
— Note that if a seller starts over charging, he goes against market forces. and equilibrium shifts because of his greed.
That is correct in case of "ONE SELLER" not "ALL SELLER". Why do you mix the two??? The market equilibrium ALLOWS PEOPLE TO SELL AT HIGHER OR LOWER PRICES. Who are you to come in and talk about greed and "buyers rights" when it is only ONE SELLER and NOT HOARDER??
— If Allah did not write an ayah in Qur'an, it does not mean that selling behavior can go unchecked.
If this kind of selling behavior (ONE SELLER NOT ALL SELLER) occurred in our Prophet's lifetime and he did not prevent it then who are you to make haram what is halal?
— Did you not notice that Meezan's chart has corei5 priced higher than a corei7?
See, this is why I think you are a troll. There is no i7 lower priced than i5 on that page. The 6011TX is mislabeled as i5 but it is i7, and it cost more than any i5.
— And when they go nuts, and ask more than 0.1 million for a corei5 laptop, they become Meezan/New Horizon.
I compared Rs 59k laptop at Meezan against market, and market said 49-54. I did not compare low end laptop in market with high end laptop on Meezan like you just did.
— let me mention it before hand that sandy bridge has problems with SATA.
Problem fixed while ago. Learn to investigate!
Still waiting for your email.
* janab jo chez haram nahi, usy mein haram kar bhi nahi raha. lekin aap profit earning ke beis mein loot marr ko halal kar chuky hein kayi barr. aap ko itni si baat samajh nahi aati k jab ek dosry ki dekha dekhi, sab sellers marzi ka profit kamany lagen gy, k unko islam ny khuli chutti di hai, tu yahan greed ka element aa jata hai aur buyers ka satya naas ho jata hai. market forces kahin dooor reh jati hein.
you say that seller can set his price for whatever profit he wants to earn, as he will only be practicing his right to earn profit.
an zara ek question ho jaey…
divorce dena allowed hai. so its ok if i marry a girl each year, and divorce her to marry another one.? After all, i will be practicing my right. No?
sawal ka jawab dena bhai, troll troll ki ratt na laga dena. warna, "naach na janay, aangan terha".
aur janab mene kaha hai k meezan's corei5 is more costly than a corei7. bas ye likhna bhul gaya k i was refering to corei7 price in retail market. ham duaa likhty rahay, wo dagha parhty rahay. If you really looked for prices in retail market, you should have understood my sentence. it is obvious that meezan's chart has no mention of any corei7 machine. See..this is how you roll. You are so desperate to satisfy your attention whoring that you resort to non-issues.
zara retail sy corei5, aur meezan ky corei5 ko compare kar na bhai. meezan wala corei7 sy bhi mehanga hai. ab ki bar mene dekh kar full sentence likha hai taa k aap ki liyay koi bahana na mily :)
baki sab nazar aa gaya lekin ye nazar nahi aya k is your salary, from stock exchange, halal? ab isky jawan mein koi dorr ki kori dhoond lao.
as far as sandy bridge is concerned, the sata problem was not fixed long ago. It might be inside your imagination. In real world, just 2 months ago, Intel was not shipping 2nd gen mobos. While desktops are hardest hit, laptops are not safe from the problem per se.
Further, in paki market, b3 revision boards are hardly available. Most shops are still selling FAULTY boards. Give me a reason to believe that laptops, being sold in pakistan, are free of the aforementioned problem.
What was ur score in computer architecture course? It must have been 4.0+. :P
And dont tell me to learn the art of investigation. I have ample expertise :D. baki aap samajh tu gyay hongay.
— sab sellers marzi ka profit kamany lagen gy
Sorry you lost again. Again you talk about "all sellers" when I talk of one. What is permitted for one might not be permitted to all and I have made that very clear but you just dont get it. Shrug.
All level of profit requires an element of greed. Even if someone sell for just 1% profit, someone can say why didn't you take just 0.5% profit? See? To outside party (like you), there is greed everywhere.
— divorce dena allowed hai. so its ok if i marry a girl each year, and divorce her to marry another one.? After all, i will be practicing my right. No?
Shows how little you know. You are perfectly in your right to do that. Nothing in Islam prohibits the activity you have mentioned. If there is, can you show me a verse or hadith? Try as you might you cant.
Now the question is IS IT GOOD TO DO THAT and the answer is no. Divorce is permitted but it is always best to reconcile parties, and divorce is act of last resort.
But what you have described is not forbidden anywhere. Prove it otherwise, pappu!
— it is obvious that meezan's chart has no mention of any corei7 machine.
wwwooooooowwww. Here is exercise for you, mr troll.
1. Look at http://www.meezanbank.com/laptopfinancing.aspx and see the i7
2. Look at http://www.meezanbank.com/comparisonPage.aspx and see the SAME i7 laptop but with i5 written.
3. Search hp.com for the laptop model number and you will find that it is an i7 not i5.
The front page is right. The comparison page made ONE TYPO (i7 to i5). Rest is all real infos you can confirm on hp.com.
Now compare prices. Meezan i7 laptop: Rs 102,110. Same laptop on myshop.com.pk: Rs 99,500 (less than Rs 3k difference). See for yourself
– you dont even know the basic definition of greed…
its the excessive desire. Time for you to back to kindergarten. I will pay the fees. Dont worry.
– when i keep doing new marriages every year, and divorce the girl just to marry a new one, you see no problem there. hahahaha. bhai, divorce is allowed only when understanding b/w spouses is no more possible. So, i cant marry a new girl each year because its my lust making me do that. Hence i cant use my right of divorce to fulfill my desires. Divorce is privilege, not right no matter how you interpret it.
Buyers ki tarah, you are simply too delusional to understand that Islam gave protection to women also.
But your opinion makes me think that you dont care about women. You opinion sounds as if they are tissue papers that can be disposed off after use. wah ji wah.
My advice, in your words "Shows how little you know."
and many more.
– tu bhai web page par typo tu hai na.
ab 8 size font mein "i5-2630QM" likha howa hai. baki sari info kisi bhi tarah k laptop mein ho sakti hai.
"rang badalta hai aasmaan kaisy kaisy"
o man! you are so desperate. You see what suits you. Rest is all blank.
As far as myshop is concerned, they over-charge and deceive as well sometimes. I bought my notebook from them and they gave me only 2GB RAM. When i came home, i scratched away the stickers on the box to find that the notebook was supposed to have 4GB RAM as provided by Pakistan Office Products. ab isy bhi keh do k yeh MyShop ka right tha :P
This was my first laptop. So they were able to deceive me easily. In fact, due to illumination inside their khokha shop, i was not able to see the scratches on the surface. They became visible only in ordinary light. Was i able to sue them? No. Because they did not give me any warranty card. And their receipt did not carry any serial number.
and we are also free to say it fraud or not. so i am saying it is fraud…so simple.
i have a very keen observation on laptop prices, mezan is charging a lot higher almost 50% to 60%. so just like you said buy or not…..when i see that i will have to pay that much high amount i should not….in fact i must not consider that offer. rather than just try to save money and buy at the right time…cheers….)
— i have a very keen observation on laptop prices, mezan is charging a lot higher almost 50% to 60%.
No way it's 50% to 60% more. Find me ONE LAPTOP model in their lineup that is 50% more than the market price. galaxy.com.pk. shophive.com.pk. myshop.com.pk. I'm sure you can find others. This says a lot about your "keen observations".
Shahid Saleem sahab. You sound like a sensible guy. I have tried to tell Pappu to go to the Banking Muhtasib if he has such problems with these deals. Now, you should try it.
I believe your point is correct. If the bank buys the laptop and sell you in a higher price only because you do not have capability to buy it one go, then it can charge you a bit more.
The Banking Muhtasib will check if "that more" is all right or not.
maulana shahid saleem sahib!
(who is nuces-fast student batch 2003
computer sciences grad.)
i will continue to wait for a response to another question.
The salary you get from stock exchange, is it halal? And please dont just dispose this question off.
After all, you accused me and many others for keeping accounts in banks that deal in interest based financial products.
Is stock exchange islamic banking, from head to toe?
"kya ye khula tazad nahi"?
— The salary you get from stock exchange, is it halal? And please dont just dispose this question off.
Are you asking for MY personal opinion to match YOUR personal opinion? Is it not better to see what Islamic scholars say? What is my personal opinion worth? What is yours? What is Islamic scholar's opinion? Only his opinion is important right??
I follow what many Islamic scholars have written in depth about stock exchange transactions. For example, short selling is haram. It is also banned in Pakistan. I sugest you read their opinions before making YOUR OWN opinion.
In my opinion (which I know you dont care about) ANY MARKET where people get to gether to sell or buy shares is legal. Whether trading itself is legal or not depends on WHAT KIND OF SHARES (shares in tobacco company is obviously not same as share in Islamic modaraba) and HOW THEY TRADE (inside trading, trading base on public company infos, news etc).
See list of Shariah compliant securities on KSE website. They are "shariah" compliant for a reason.
Example #1: If I know a company needs Rs 50,000 to start operations, and I think company directors are good people and their work is honest, I will invest in it. Then later if I want to sell 1/5th of my shares to someone else I can do that freely WITH OR WITHOUT a stock market. But a stock market makes it all better because 1. transactions are tracked by government 2. there is less risk of theft, loss, 3. companies listed in stock market haave to provide quarterly and annual AUDITED reports so I know company's financial health. Private companies do not have make that infos public.
In other words, a public company on exchange has to open its books to everyone. Transparency is good thing in Pakistan.
Example #2: if I know people will buy lots of cement to rebuild after floods in Pakistan, I will invest in cement companies. Commone sense man.
— After all, you accused me and many others for keeping accounts in banks that deal in interest based financial products.
I keep accounts in banks that pay interest. Note i never said where I keep my money? Didn't you notice? I also use saving accounts not current. I give the interest to charity instead of spending on myself. I think that is the best way to deal with financial situation in world today. I cannot buy and sell a few grams of gold every time I want an expensive pepsi at Holliday Inn restaurant :):):)
Still no email from your side??
Some opinions are in this forum post:
And this fatwa:
Also, I would like to point out that even the Dow Jones Index in US and FTSE in UK have created an index to follow "halal" stocks in their countries.
Since you wrote a lot about stocks and indexes, i would like to point out that islamic banking systems uses LIBOR as benchmark. O my goodness. Shouldn't Islamic banking system stay distinct and self-contained?
I will not ask any more question here because a whole new subtree on stocks shall take birth.
now there you go…shariah compliant securities…..janab mujhe iss par lecture nahi chahiyay..hhaaahahah..my question is still there…lahore stock exchange kahan sy shariah compliant ho gayi on the whole? aur apko kaisy pata chala k exchange walay apki salary sirf shariah compliant business sy generate karty hein?
mene ek question poocha tha long ago…k jo bank soodi, aur non-soodi, har tarah ka karobar karty hein, unn k baray mein kya hukam hai. apny jawab nahi diya.
ab, aisa sawal stock exchange k baray mein bhi ho sakta hai. apko pata kaisy chalta hai k apki salary halal business sy generate kar k di hai exchange walun ny?
aur janab apny ye kabhi disclose nahi karna tha k aap bhi hamam mein nangay hein k apky apnay accounts soodi karobar walay banks mein hein. jab mene kaha k mera current account hai, you said i have RESPONSIBILITY because i know that bank is doing interest based business. Practice first, what you preach.
You shall keep on telling me to send email, even when you have it already. Should i post screen shots then? (which will be a useless exercise)
pappu says:
April 29, 2011 at 12:27 am
We can find a workaround to almost anything these days.
Who doesnot know that stock exchange is a highly controversial subject? Didn't you get a job elsewhere? mene tu suna hai FAST walay hathun haath biktay hein? wo bhi profit k saath?
janab aap keh kyu nahi detay k apky haan sab chalta hai?
— Who doesnot know that stock exchange is a highly controversial subject? Didn't you get a job elsewhere?
The scholars who don't like the stock exchange also have a problem with "limited liability" companies. You ever see (Pvt) Ltd next to company name? Guess what percentage of companies in Pakistan are LL.
Chances are you work at one.
sir we are talking about stock exchange employees only. But you seem not to appreciate the reasoning i jotted down. After all, who goes against their source of income?
bjaee ye k ap mere sawal ka jawab dein, aap ny ek aur nayi story shuru kar di?
………And i am a student yet :)
Most probably, i will be teaching CS somewhere after getting a degree. Or maybe, do farming/zamindari which was profession of prophets.
Sir I was expecting you all day at the stock exchange but you didnt visit :(:( I even have two receits for you! When will you visit kind sir? I'm wiating anxiously.
I never ask where people make there money when I do business. No one does, except maybe banks who have to deal with state bank regulations.
will a shop keeper refuse to take your money until you say "i did not make this in stock exchange, limited liability company, casino, bank, etc etc"?
Welcome to real world. How much of your last months salary was from haram sources? What happens when you mix haram and halal sources?
You close your eyes to that, so dont ask me to open mine.
The other day, you were telling me that even if i(pappu) dont benefit from interest money of bank, i KNOW that they deal in interest. And i am responsible. Bhai ab kyu tekleef hoti hai jab mene stock exchange ki baat kar di hai?
Practice first, what you preach.
So you finally admit that you are aware of the fact that you salary can well be from haram sources. Keep your eyes shut. Allah shall ask you, not me. However, dont preach a virtue if you cant practice it yourself.
And dont worry. I will see you in your office. But i have to take care of some things first. You can easily accuse me of harrassment/stalking. Jo banda har baat par jhoot bolay, uska kya i'tibaar.
You haven't even bothered to email me.
Once you give me receipt of amount charged by any restaurant, I will come to see you :) because if you don't remember, i told you that i will sue them on your behalf.
Ab ek bar phir koi naya randi roona daal dena.
Meezan ko call karny k paisy nahi, aur jana fast food restaurant mein hai. a'alaa.
if you have 2 receipts, you havent sent them to my email address. You are just a con-artist. Only wasting time. Why were you asking about my email address if you cant send me the receipts? Need a scanner? Give me your bank account so that i may send you money to buy one. I think i should also give zakat to you. You seem so poor. Exchange me kahin tea boy ka kaam tu nahi kar rahay?
addendum….(Addressed to sardar Shahid Saleem only.) Moreover, you think that a seller sells his products due to motive of greed of money. Well said. That is the reason you believe that a seller can charge any amount of profit, as greed knows no bounds. Needless to mention that such an opinion has nothing to do with shariah.
— Or maybe, do farming/zamindari which was profession of prophets.
And no one who buys from you will pay from haram sources, right?? fantasy.
Ask the question from prophets first :)
i guess i have to remind you that too many questions lead to wrath of God.
Take it easy. You need to revisit your knowledge of Islam before jumping into debates. You failed to answer an analytical question on the issue of divorce (and surprised me altogether).
I am glad that you are not a scholar/maulana/mufti etc or something. Otherwise, you would have ruined family system in pakistan by giving freehand to males on issue of divorce.
But i guess my advice shall fall on deaf ears. You are so fond of attention whoring, i simply can't laugh enough :D
I keep returning to this thread, because i want to know if someone else called Meezan to confront them about their installments offer.
You keep returning because you are so influenced by petty things like "reputation on internet". And you are desperately trying to satisfy your inflated ego.
You didn't inform anyone about your workplace UNTIL I FOUND it out. And now you are trying to redeem lost esteem with fresh home brewed lame excuses. Whatever, problem you have, contact me via email from now on. You have my email address. Use it. See ya there….
pappu, i'll satisfy you regarding "Meezan Bank" instalments issue.
these are completely "Riba-free" !
Excuse me, was this post about discussion on religious affairs, Riba and interest? Come on guys, if you don't want to buy a lappy on installments just don't go for it. Bah!
Intelligent comment.
If Meezan bank is charging high, they disclose it in the beginning or you are literate enough to do the math.
The contract starts when you agree to all terms and conditions. If you agree to pay high in the first place, the bank is not at fault.
It is as simple as buying a TV at installments, which will always be expensive BECAUSE it gives you the FACILITY to pay in installments. Same thing goes for Meezan laptops.
You cannot blame the bank.
i think this is the great opportunity offered my bank
Too many comments above, but my stance on this is that this is interest based. How… just answer a simple question: if this is fixed price than how come the end cost of a laptop is different for 3 months installation and is different for 24 month installation?
see this link – do maths and you will realize.
— How… just answer a simple question: if this is fixed price than how come the end cost of a laptop is different for 3 months installation and is different for 24 month installation?
Well if you had actually read the pages you would know: there are no extra finance charges, interest, or anything for 3 months or 6 months.
Bhai sab chhoro, ye bataao ke pappu jeeta ya Shahid Saleem :p
I have given him a world cup trophy long ago. Just because of the inscription on the trophy, he is not accepting the award.
the inscrpition must be my nick then :p
My dears so far I know there is absolutely no 'Islam Banking' and when a bank is run on modern concepts and procedures it is no more an Islamic Bank. As far as the fatwa is concerned it can be obtained easily for few buks.
pappu bhai jeet gay hian..!
PAPPU VS Shahid Saleem who is the winner, kindly vote
great mezan walo sood ka hidden tareka
i wan't a laptop on easy installment i can't paid full payment.
can u give me a laptop on instalmant
Mujhe Meezan Bank ki is offer par fakhar hai , chale'n koi to hai …. or haan mujhe bhi laptop purchase karna hai … please guide me ,
i think its a Good opportunity to bay a laptop only 100 a Day….
Meezan Bank has a "Riba'free" system under the guidance of top expert "Ulama'e'kiram" of "Islamic Banking".
Any one who has doubt, should not abuse "Meezan bank" of "Riba", he must represent the proof of his false statements ….
my laptop is dell n5010 no install mac os X please help me what problem great post Thanks 4 share, it work like t
AOA All,
Meezan is charging almost double price for max payment terms. It is good if they offer 0% markup for atleast 6 months. Then it will be thinkable. Now just kick them.
sir, I want full details about the laptop scheme launched by the meazan bank of pakistan. i.e. the price, the monthly installment payment, and how much differnce of price from market. please sent me entire details abouat laptop
My name is ABDUL WAJID. i did my BBA(honr) FINANCE. Iam looking for jobs in the field of finance any where.
In fact, the circumstances that envisage a deal as a deal of interest do not prevail here. Besides, the contract is mutual contract and, with the exception of fewer items of contract, which are related to return of bank money, the purposes and intents remain widely open to each of the contracting parties.
In old days it happened that a person required money as loan on interest in lieu of valuables and in case of nonpayment of amount the borrower has to face unexpected multifarious hardships including loss of valuables.
Thus, the circumstances sound widely apart, from facing unexpected hardships to contract of mutual reliefs. Yet, this fact cannot be overruled that the sum that bank required in lieu of its services is on highest side.
lxtn i need apple mac pro book on installments let me knw about da plans 03242202927 fahad
i think its a little costly as compare to the cash amount. but its convenient to pay installment so you are gonna pay for the price of convenient.
Can we get an Apple laptop on installment from Meezan???
what percentage of profit they give on saving account. For example if one deposit one lac,100000 in saving account of Meezan bank what should be expected profit in monthly basis?
i want need lap top leasing proces
my contact number..03219312025…
i want a new laptop for monthly pay basis