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Why Ryan Vogelsong Isn't An All-Star
I rocketed past this point in this morning's post because I thought it was so obvious. But the blowback on Twitter from some Giants fans was as if I had said Tim Lincecum didn't belong on the NL All-Star team (he probably doesn't, either, but there's an argument to be made for previous performance counting).
"What about overcoming the odds?," I was asked. "Wins are the poorest metric of a pitcher's performance," I was told. "Ever read Moneyball, idiot?," I was hit with (yeah, and Moneyball has yet to produce a league champion, let alone a World Champion). When I argued that Vogelsong shouldn't have even been considered because he had been tested so much less that he had not yet thrown enough innings to be considered for the ERA leadership, I was told that he would achieve that in his next start. The point was missed: in his "season" he is about where all the other starters were three weeks ago. If he were to give up five runs in five innings in his next start that sparkling ERA to which his supporters point, would balloon to 2.52. Remember that number.
But these guys love them some Ryan Vogelsong.
Trust me, I've got nothing against him. Great story, wonderful to see him make his way back (although I don't recall many Giants fans saying the same thing about Colby Lewis during the World Series last year). He's pitched well, although you could argue he's been no better than the 14th or 15th top starter in the National League this season.
Actually, the explanation for the heading "Why Ryan Vogelsong Isn't An All-Star" takes just two words: Tommy Hanson. Opponents are hitting .222 off Vogelsong. They are hitting .192 off Hanson. Vogelsong has averaged 7.26 strikeouts per nine innings. Hanson has averaged 9.62 of them. Vogelsong's WHIP is 1.15. Hanson's is 1.04. Vogelsong has won 6 of 13 starts. Hanson has won 10 of 16. In one category and one category alone does Vogelsong best the Braves' righthander. His ERA is 2.13 and Hanson's is 2.52 – exactly where Vogelsong could wind up with a five earnies in five innings performance next time out.
I think it's open and shut right there. Individual metrics are all in Hanson's favor, and the results – and some day we will shake off the Felix Hernandez foolishness of last year and recognize that, yes, a win or a loss is at least somewhat a starting pitcher's responsibility – the results are decidedly in Hanson's favor.
His interiors aren't that impressive, but the idea that Kevin Correia has won 11 games with what is still a dicey Pirates' line-up, is extraordinary. A 3.74 ERA and a .260 opponents' BA give me the willies. But wins and losses do count for something.
But there are several other pitchers – and for our purposes here these are pitchers drawn only from the same Cinderella category to which Vogelsong belongs – whose statistics and results are slightly better or just slightly worse than Vogelsong's. It's easiest to look at them in column form:
Ryan Vogelsong 6-1 2.13 1.15 .222 7.26
Dillon Gee 8-3 3.47 1.20 .222 6.29
Jeff Karstens 7-4 2.55 1.07 .240 5.29
Ian Kennedy 8-3 3.38 1.14 .236 7.58
Shawn Marcum 7-3 3.32 1.15 .221 8.26
Jordan Zimmermann 5-7 2.82 1.10 .240 6.29
The crazy thing here, of course, is that our hypothetical five innings, five earned start for Vogelsong not only gives Hanson a shutout on the stat board, but it also turns the Giant into only a slightly shinier version of Jeff Karstens.
But I have heretofore left out the favorite meme of the Vogelsongians: he pitches for the Giants therefore he must be better because the Giants never score runs and every game is torture and blah blah blah, blah blah.
Correia and Gee, you can dismiss on this point. The Buccos are scoring Correia 7.17 runs per game; the Mets 6.94 for Gee. But all the other pitchers mentioned here are getting, at most, half a run more per outing than is Vogelsong, who gets 5.44 (Marcum 5.96, Kennedy 5.81, Hanson 5.70, Karstens 5.56 – and poor Jordan Zimmermann is struggling along at 4.80). If you want a macro view of where a 5.44 run support should get you, Cole Hamels was getting a 5.37 and Jair Jurrjens a 4.88 before their starts tonight. And somehow in the American League, Michael Pineda is doing what he's doing with an RS of 4.42, Jered Weaver's getting 4.04, and poor Dan Haren, 3.87. That's lack of support.
This is a good point to mention my all-time favorite season of any pitcher in professional history. It's amazingly instructive about the true value of interior statistics. At first blush, this looks like a pretty good year, in AA ball, for a 22-year old pitcher in 1967: 2.81 ERA (that's two earned runs in each of his 20 starts, 1.39 WHIP (he was a little wild), 5.3 K/9, only 7 homers allowed all year. His name was Dick Such, his team was the 1967 York White Roses, they were no-hit four times that year, and Such finished the season 0-16. That's right: no wins, 16 losses. Rather remarkably, he not only didn't quit the sport, but made it to the majors as a pitcher and, for 19 years as a pitching coach (16-1/2 with the Twins).
There's one more deeply disturbing aspect to Vogelsong's selection by his manager Bruce Bochy that was explained on MLB Tonight by Jerry Manuel. To paraphrase him, he said he'd love to be getting the criticism Bochy is getting for picking three of his own starting pitchers, because it meant – no duh – that he had won the pennant last year instead of getting fired.
But more importantly, Manuel observed, it would mean that he had done right by "his guys" – that given the choice between a completely neutral decision about the eight best starters in the league this season, and not offending his own starters, he'd take not offending his own starters, every time.
Jerry's never been given credit either for his acumen or his honesty. But his point is honest, and damning, and explains why now the time has come to take the defending pennant-winning manager (and all the managers) out of a decisive role in selecting All-Stars. If it has devolved into a popularity contest – as in, I want to stay popular with my own players – then it must be discontinued immediately. And the selection of Vogelsong over Hanson (to say nothing of the other Cinderellas) suggests it has.
58 Comments
Amen, Keith
It's one thing for Bochy to reward a player who was on the Giants last year but… But Vogelsong wasn't, so there is NO way he should have been selected!!! The All Star ballot doesn't say whose had the best three months!! That's why there should be NO bitch about Lincecum being an All Star this year!!! Once you've won the Cy Young award TWICE, you can be added to the All Star team no matter what the current season is like!!
Hey Keith…just how many Giants games have you seen this year? Have you even seen Vogelsong pitch this season? Your East Coast bias is showing once again.
Until MLB changes the way the All-Star teams are selected, the manager of each team is going to make some of his picks based upon the players he knows ….his own team to fill in key positions.
Having 8 Yankees in last year's game pales in comparison to Bochy's 4 choices. The Giants pitching staff is heads above most teams and I wouldn't be surprised to see one or two more chosen to fill in spots along with Sandoval, who is currently experiencing a 17 game hitting streak after coming off the DL….a case could be made for him but I could see you using the same lame argument if Bochy chooses him.
Try being a bit more consistent in making your cases.
One question I have is how can you congratulate Correia for winning 11 games with a dicey lineup supporting him, and then further on point out that Correia gets 7.17 runs per game of support? That 7.17 Correia gets is 8th in the NL in run support.
Carlos Beltran getting the nob over Andrew McCutchen is far worse a decision by the giant dome of Bruce Bochy.
I do miss you on Sportscenter though!
The point is that Vogelsong is definitely deserving, he has saved the Giants this year when Zito went down, and yeah, he pitches for the Giants. Bochy's the NL All Star coach, so why not bring him? It isn't unprecedented. Or how easily do you forget that Girardi brought 8 Yankees with him last year? Bochy's only taking 4 Giants. What about Sandoval's snub in 2009? The All Star game is a popularity contest, and after that it's a "who's the most favorite of the coach's?" Bochy wanted to make sure his World Champions were well represented, and Vogey has played better than any other Giants position player. Maybe if Posey doesn't go down and Sandoval doesn't miss a month and a half they go, and if that was the case, I'd be surprised if Bochy picked Vogey to go. The most players from any team on the NL is 4. I think that's fair. 8 is ridiculous, yet I don't recall you saying anything about Girardi last year.
"So this entire article is based on the hypothetical situation where Vogelsong gives up 5 runs in 5 innings…. So dumb."
Thank you!!! Can we then write an article where we extrapolate Vogelsong's stats if his next start is a complete game shutout and discuss his all-star merits based on that? (1.93 ERA, BTW.)
Keep crying Keith, your delicious, delicious tears! MMMMMM!
So this entire article is based on the hypothetical situation where Vogelsong gives up 5 runs in 5 innings…. So dumb. Why not say: if Lincecum gives up 10 runs in his next start, he won't deserve it. There is no reason to believe that he would give up 5 runs in 5 innings. His ERA is 2.13 for god sakes. He has a better chance of giving up 0 runs in 5 innings than 5.
Why not just base it on stats as they actually are? Oh ya, because then there is no argument that Vogelsong doesn't deserve it. Total Fail. You should try again and write why Vogelsong doesn't deserve it based on his current stats. If you are going to extrapolate stats to the future, do them realistically, based on his current stats.. that would make sense, no?
Tommy Hanson was screwed big time by not being picked as an All star. Craig Kimbrel has a beef as well.
The rest of your points are reasonable, but seriously, a W doesn't tell you anything about a pitcher. All Vogelsong's record tells you is that he pitched in at least 7 games. The reason it is such a bad tool for evaluating a player is that a pitcher can only do so much in a game. He's basically none of the offense, so right off the bat, half of the responsibility for a win is taken off of the pitcher. Add in the fact that fielding is at least 10% of the game, that the bullpen is another 10% and that random chance happens and it becomes pretty clear that a player's W-L record is basically the worst player evaluation stat in pro-sports.
Love the show, but you're so wrong on this point that it almost hurts me.
I hope you bring up this argument every season, Keith. Because there are "home town" picks by All-Star managers every season. If not, please save us your anti-Giants bias — you'll be cementing your reputation as a spoiled brat Yankees fan who pouts if his boys in pinstripes don't win the World Series every year. The Giants won and Bruce Bochy has the right to do what every AS manager dies every year — deal with it.
By the way, Giants fans DID praise Colby Lewis and his perseverance last season — he was very impressive against the Giants in the only game the Rangers won. Please stop making blanket generalizations in order to make a cheap (and inaccurate) point — it's very Palin-esque.
"…the Felix Hernandez foolishness of last year"
Et tu, Keith?
Who do you believe deserved the AL Cy Young last year? Using the same five categories you use in your illustration, Felix bested David Price (2nd in the Cy Young voting) in ERA, OBA and WHIP. He bested CC (3rd) in ERA, OBA, WHIP and SO/9. He bested Lester (4th) in ERA, OBA and WHIP. He bested Weaver (5th) in OBA, WHIP, ERA and tied him with the same record. And he bested Buchholz (6th) in ERA, OBA, WHIP and SO/9. He also threw more innings and had more complete games than any of those guys.
As for run support, most of those cats had 2 full runs or more in terms of support per game than King Felix had. Only Weaver's Angels 3.8 per game came anywhere close to the 3.1 per game that Seattle gave him. You can see how it affected both of their records last year.
I agree that wins are important. But so are the rest of a pitcher's stats. Looking at everything (or even just those five that you used), King Felix was the best pitcher in the AL last year. Even if he only had 13 wins.
i reallly dont even wanna waste my time arguing because 1. your opinion doesnt matter because HE is an allstar and you can do or say NOTHING that will take that away from him but 2. he has been the MOST CONSISTENT starter since he has been called up. who cares if he was signed as a minor league contract or was in AAA
and ps. bochy was MAD when charlie manuel SNUBBED pablo in '09 for his own guy, so why should bochy think of other players when he believes his own players are equally as deserving.
I'm a Giant fan but I do think they have some of the whiniest fans out there. I don't think Ryan should have been selected. If he pitches well the rest of the year, he deserves a Comeback Player of the Year consideration. But the infatuation some of the fans have with him, fed in part by the infatuation that the local Giants' beat writers have with him, I don't get. He certainly didn't pitch all that great his last two outings, even. His overall career as been mediocre to poor and he had a hot streak, similar to a light-hitting guy like Bucky Dent having a great postseason (a streak does not an All-Star make). I think some of the fans love Ryan because he's not Barry Zito. Zito is despised, to an almost obsessive degree, by some Giants fans. They see Ryan as taking his job as a form of justice for the ridiculously huge longterm contract Zito was given. That give Vogey (as the beat writers love to call him) a patina he otherwise wouldn't have.
its giants…not giant and you are no giants fan
and he had some command issues in the last two starts…but he pitched better than cain and timmy just did
but you wouldnt know that, cuz you arent a giants fan…
Walt, don't tell me I'm not a Giant/Giants fan, because I"ve been one since childhood. Just because I pointed out that Ryan Vogelsong has not had a good overall career to back up being an All Star, that makes me not a fan? I'm glad he helped the team, but he doesn't belong as an All Star this year. I know more about baseball than you do, so you can't tell me anything. Look up the guy's lifelong baseball stats.
you arent a giants fan…stop lying
how many nights did you spend at the stick?
and no giants fan would make the mistake of calling themselves a giant fan
you are a dodgers fan…admit it
Oh, and just to add, I think Ryan Vogelsong is a lovely guy and I'm happy he's having this great year. But I don't think any player should be selected to an All-Star team based on half a season and nothing else, no prior seasons to go on. His past is not star material, but he is almost like a rookie. I don't think too many sensational rookies get selected to All-Star teams their first year, either. If Ryan continues to have a great year and comes back next season and has a great first half, it would be entirely appropriate to be selected to the All Star team. It just is premature to do it this year, IMO. I wish him all the luck for that to happen.
The whole All Star thing isn't high on my list of important honors. It's ok, but it's just a corporate device to create interest, imho, like Dancing with the Stars. In that light, as long as the selections are in the top half of the group, I'm good to just have fun with it. Should be a joyful warm and fuzzy event and another day to party at the park. Cheers.
Really. The lucky guys are the ones who aren't picked, because they get a much-needed vacation in the middle of the season. Is Bochy really smart to have picked his guys in the middle of the season when they've shown some signs of fatigue, especially Lincecum? You'd think he'd want Tim well-rested for the 2nd half. Oh, well. It is about marketing. The fan vote is the most important because it gives the sponsors a chance to hammer home their advertising message when fans go on the website to vote for their favorite players. That's what it's all about. That, and helping to make money for the player's pension fund.
hey ko
with fan balloting, the as game became a popularity contest…does jeter deserve to be in the as game this season? only if you think that as means entire career
my god man, they start handing out ballots in may
ko, did you, anyone at espn or any coach say boo when sandoval was snubbed in 09?
vsong is a great story…and ya, he is a better story than colby lewis…who had success in japan
vsong didnt…and he didnt have success when he returned with the phils and was released from their aaa club
somehow, during the past offseason, in winter baseball, he put everything together…no one knows how…he doesnt even know how he did it
and he turned down an offer from the dodgers…THAT MAKES HIM A PERENNIAL AS
i notice that you have no prob with the choice of beltran over mccutcheon…damned east coast bias
hope the giants win it all again…and bochy picks his entire pen and if and tells you all to eff off
"If he were to give up five runs in five innings in his next start that sparkling ERA to which his supporters point, would balloon to 2.52. " GTFO of here with that rubbish Olbermann. And if he throws 8 shutout innnings? You're talking hypotheticals just to prove your hate of anything Giants. You fail. Miserably.
Your cranium must be protecting some very valbulae brains.
The bigger question is how is Jeter an all-star?
You obviously haven't watched Vogelsong pitch this year or are afraid to give the Giants any credit
"In one category and one category alone does Vogelsong best the Braves' righthander (Hanson)."
What about walks/9 innings and losses? Vogelsong (2.88 bb/9, 1 loss) bests Hanson (3.18 bb/9,4 losses) in those categories too.
Don't be selective in what categories you're looking at if you're going to say that stats are all that matters.
It's funny you're arguing about a pitcher who is 6-1 with a 2.13 (especially when his manager manages the NL team). And of course Giants fans didn't applaud Colby Lewis– they had a dog in this fight. But do you have one Keith? You already trashed Giants fans for gloating more than the usual fans do after winning a championship (I think a free pass is given when a city has never experienced a World Series title, and a franchise hasn't won it since 1954). Birdsong– I mean, Vogelsong– may be less deserving than Tommy Hanson, but when you say Felix Hernandez winning the Cy was "foolishness" your argument loses a lot of steam. I'm a big fan of your political views but I sometimes find your views on baseball to be rather curious to say the least. The Yankees using a 3-man rotation in the 2009 playoffs would cost them the World Series? Mitch Williams is one of the best TV analysts today? The constant harping on Jeter like you hold a personal grudge? Those questions reveal any "agenda" I may have, because I'm not trying to hound you. But it seems you have an agenda against the Giants.
Waaah Vogey doesn't belong in the AS game waaaaah. Quit whining you spoiled P.O.S yankee fan.
This has nothing to do with Keith being a Yankee fan. He criticizes the Yankees too– sometimes in bizarre ways. For instance, on the Royals broadcast during a KC/Yankee game he told Ryan Lefebvre and Frank White that the Yankees made moves in the offseason that you might expect a small market team like Pittsburgh or KC to make– Colon, Garcia, Chavez, guys like that. He said this was an indication the Yankees were in trouble. Well, not only have most of those guys played well for the Yankees it's more indicative of how the Yankees will take a chance on a so-called has-been because they have the money to spare. Not that it cost a lot to sign Colon. But it's just this kind of disingenuous hand-wringing and nit-picking about the Yankees that makes Keith sound irrational. And he does the same about the Giants. I wonder if he devoted this much space when Francona picked Varitek. And the obligatory picks for each team often aren't all that impressive either– Ty Wigginton last year, as well as Fausto Carmona. So if Bochy wants to stick up for one of his guys, and maybe inspire him for the second half by showing the manager has his back, more power to the Giants' manager.
You moron writers assume that the All-Star game is about having the best players on the field? LOL!!!! It's never been that way and as long as Fans vote, and Managers can pick their own players it'll never be that way.
Oh, and Vogelsong should be an All-Star this year regardless. His stats are good enough.
I find the Lincecum discussion more interesting that the Vogelsong discussion. Keith thinks Lincecum probably shouldn't be an all-star this year, but grants that past performance makes it reasonable.
What should the criteria for the all-star team be? For all that the subject gets beaten into the ground each year, I rarely see any thought put into this basic question. A lot of people seem to implicitly hold that an all-star is someone who has had a really good first half of the season. In its extreme version this is narrowed to a really good June.
This seems to me just about the least interesting way imaginable for choosing all-stars. Here's a more interesting (in my opinion) criterion: select the team to bring together a collection of great players, even if their best years are behind them. Make the all-star game a celebration of greatness, not merely of currently very goodness.
Here's another possible criterion: use the all-star game as a vehicle for bringing to our attention players we would do well to notice. Some years ago I read a column bitching about the rule that every team sends at least one player. The writer's example of some no-name non-entity that no one had ever heard of on some loser club? Jimmy Rollins.
Maybe this is about Vogelsong after all. I don't follow the NL west, so I was only vaguely aware of him. But putting him on the team has brought him to my attention. Outstanding!
this says it all
Oberman= dooooosh
Baseball NEEDS a story like Vogelsong…Disney should pick up the story and make a movie.
If you're going to complain about a player not deserving to be an All-Star why don't you pay attention where it belongs? With Jeter…and not Vogelsong.
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It's SIMPLE! The Giants are a FIRST place team, and who is their best pitcher half way through the year? RYAN VOGELSONG! That means he deserves it over a guy who's team is in 2nd place.
Uhm, wait what? Like seriously, what? If Tommy Hanson gave up 5 earned runs in his next 5 inning start, he'd have a 2.66 ERA soooo ya…did Keith Olbermann really just use a hypothetical situation as an argument? Yikes. Hanson probably is a little more deserving than Vogelsong, but not tremendously so. And every other pitcher on this list doesn't compare remotely.
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Since when has the All Star game been about the best players being selected? It is a popularity contest. It is a marketing tool for MLB and TV to drum up revenue. In addition, it is the winning manager's prerogotive to pick whoever the heck he wants. To the victor go the spoils!
I'm an SF Giants fan & I completely agree w/ K. Olbermann on this. Not an All-Star. But WINS are severely DEVALUED nowadays, esp. on a team like the Giants where every night it's a 2-2 score in the 7th inning. Felix Hernandez just won the CY Young with 13 Wins. Still, RV not an All-Star. Lincecum is.
What a wonderful discussion. But it's all academic. Vogelsong is an All Star. While Kimbrel should be, and Hanson should be…they aren't. Venters is. That's where the argument should focus on – why Venters over Kimbrel or Hanson? But it doesn't matter. Venters is an All Star. Kimbrel and Hanson aren't.
As for Vogelsong…he is the best pitcher on the Giants right now. End of story. Fact is, I think if Buster, Freddy, and Panda had not gotten hurt, they would be All Stars, too. But they got hurt, so they aren't (though don't be surprised if Panda gets picked as a replacement on Sunday night).
And there's no way in hell that 8 Yankees should have gone to the game last year. But they did.
I've believed Vogelsong would be an All Star after his Mother's Day performance against the Rockies. Stories like his are important to the game. That, and he is one of the top pitchers in the major leagues this year.
I don't see anyone asking why Chipper Jones is on the All Star team. Well, wait, I will.
Why is Chipper Jones on the All-Star team? He's not even the fifth best third baseman in the NL.
As it is, I think it's really endearing you don't like the Giants, Keith. I'm serious. I mean, any team that can win three post-season series as the visiting team merits a little respect, doesn't it?
I stumbled across this post because one of my favorite Giants blogs picked it up and gave you a shout out for your arrogance and delusion.
The argument against you isn't because you don't think Vogelsong should be an all star; it's because you called his pick "Desperate homerism, pathetic, embarrassing". It's just incorrect. There is one pitcher you can make a legitimate case for. Tommy Hanson is really good. No one denies that. He probably should have gone over Vogelsong. He probably should have gone over Lincecum. Pablo should have gone over Polanco in '09. Managers take players they know. Fans pick names out of a hat. Somehow Jeter makes it every year. I'm surprised Griffey didn't get voted as a starter this year.
Your metrics and expectations don't flow in a logical sense. Do you want to go by wins? I can't tell because you threw out a bunch of easily accessible stats to prove how good Vogelsong has been. You cite run support as a comparable metric for the other pitchers without providing Vogelsong's run support. His run support is 4.06. That's Jered Weaver level. He's left 3 tied games where he gave up 2 runs or less. He's left 2 games where he was losing despite giving up 2 runs or less. Aside from that one-13 run outburst, his run support is pathetic. Think of that 4.06 mark without that 13 run outlier where the ump wouldn't give any called strikes; the number wouldn't be as pretty.
Less easily accessible stats show he's had the 14th most effective fastball of any starting pitcher. Combine that with a pretty decent change up, a plus curve, and a useable cutter. Yeah, he's a pretty damn good pitcher if he can keep the walks down like he has. Vogelsong also hits, which is nice in a pitcher.
Now Keith, what qualifies you to question the selection? Is it because you worked on ESPN 15 years ago? Maybe it's because you once had a Football pre-game show? I get that you talked about sports once upon a time, but obviously, you're out of touch. Just because you are a public persona doesn't mean you should speak out on topics you just can't understand. Baseball, apparently, is one of those topics.
vogelsong just went 7 and gave up 2 er
he now qualifies for the 4TH BEST ERA IN THE NL
No, he doesn't. Not all Giants fans disagree with Keith, I don't. The way Vogelsong pitched tonight kind of proved Keith's point. He gutted his way out of it, but he gave up a lot of hits and walks. He also will not be on the ERA leaderboard come Sunday, because the innings clock will be reset and he will once again be seven innings away from qualifying. He just is not ready to be picked as an All-Star. I watched tonight's game and the fans were getting restless and even booing at some points. Giants fans are brutal and have short memories. I somehow think Ryan would have been better off getting those days off than sweltering in Arizona and likely not even getting in the game. Though I'm sure his family and friends are thrilled.
the fans were booing the replacement umps k-zone, you tool
there isnt one true giants fan who thinks that vsong doesnt belong on the as squad
you are a dodgers fan
The beauty of this is as follows: like history, baseball is an argument without end. Bruce Bochy could have selected ten pitchers who have pitched only perfect games all year, and someone could and would argue that he ignored five better-qualified pitchers. But I'll invoke Joe McCarthy–not the witch-hunter; the manager. In 1943, he managed the American League all-star team and did not play any of the five Yankees on the team. Today, those players would be crying to the general manager. Back then, his players respected him too much to mess with him.
with all due respect
what would you think if someone post "why mlblogskeitholbermann1 have no idea about what he says" ????
Sorry but this whole anti-Giants kick is really starting to wear thin. Did you cheer when Buster Posey went down in May? (Good – that'll shut up those whiny northern Californians once and for all!) Is it because no one in the front office or the clubhouse has sat down and discussed a prized Honus Wagner card with you? Are you still pissed about the whole Barry Bonds show?
It's 2011. The Giants won the World Series last year, are sitting 3 games up in the division in first place at the All-Star break, and have 52 wins over 40 losses so far. They've had injuries to stars and starters, just like all the other contenders. They've beaten good teams at home and on the road… and they've lost some stinkers too. Just like everybody else. While the conventional wisdom salivates at a Philadelphia-Boston/Yankees World Series this season… the Giants have overcome adversity and obstacles so far to inject themselves into the postseason conversation. The defending champions, I hasten to add once more…
I'm not going to get into name caling or personal attacks. It doesn't matter what one man's opinion counts for these days. I'm a San Francisco Giants fan. Been one for lots of average seasons, a few bad ones and a couple of sublime ones. I'm going to root for my team win or lose, good days or rotten.
It's just discouraging to hear people like yourself using your prominent media platform and access to disparage fans like myself and the team we root for. The Giants have done ZERO — absolute zero — to warrant this kind of derisive scorn you heap upon them at the first and every opportunity.
May the best team be standing in the end. Quit being such a horse's ass about it. (I lied about the personal attack and name calling — that did feel good.)
Aaron Campbell
San Francisco Giants fan
Oh, f*ck you. When you can pitch well enough to even be considered for the All-Star team, thats when you can start criticizing the people who are actually on it. Your crappy blog isnt a good bully pulpit anyway, but I hope you're having fun. Jerkoff.
That may be the stupidest baseball comment I have seen in a long time. If what you've said about qualifications for judging all-stars is true, then you're even less qualified to comment on the game than Olbermann is. After all, your handle indicates you're female, and I don't think any females have ever played in the Majors. Do you really want to suggest that?
Well, actually she wasn't criticizing the all star pitcher, she's criticizing olbermann.. so her logic wouldn't fall back on her like u say.. LoL
Hey Keith! Any thoughts on Vogelsong assuming the NL ERA lead? Or are you busy calculating what his ERA will be if he gives up five plus earned runs in his next start?
Vogelsong.. 2.03 era.. Best in NL.. Speaking as a party without a vested intrest either way, sounds like the guy deserved it. If I recall, bochy didn't even use any giants pitchers in AS game.. Sounds to me like there's a writer with some hurt feelings here to me
i have learned a lot,thank you.


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Applications are invited from the eligible candidates for Common Entrance Test M.Pharm. ASSO-CET-2008 and for Centralised Admission Process M.Pharm. ASSO-CAP for admission to first year of two years Post Graduate course in pharmacy in unaided colleges / Institutes in state of Maharashtra.
Availability of information brochure and submission of application forms –
* Information brochure will be available for sale at the cost of Rs. 1000/- at all Applications form Receipt Centers (ARC's) from 23rd June 2008 to 28th June 2008 between 11:00 am to 05:00 pm. The information brochure is also available on AUPPC website. www.auppc.org for down load and printing.
* Fees for submission of application form required to be paid at ARC – Rs. 500/- as M.Pharm. ASSO-CET-2008 fees. (for non GATE Candidates).
Eligibility Criteria
a) For appearing for M.Pharm. ASSO-CET-2008
* The candidate who does not have valid GATE score or did not appear in GATE shall have to secure non zero score in M.Pharm. ASSO-CET-2008 to be eligible for claiming admission, subject to the condition that no GATE qualified candidate is available in respective category.
* Candidate who has passed B.Pharm. degree or appeared in final year / final semester of B.Pharm from any AICTE approved institution affiliated with University (approved by UGC) subject to the condition that they must produce proof of passing B.Pharm. examination as per M.Pharm. admission eligibility criterion in original at the time of admission by counseling round.
* Note : The M.Pharm. ASSO-CET-2008 examination will have the same curriculum, pattern similar to GATE 2008. However there will be no negative marking system in M.Pharm. ASSO-CET-2008.
b) For Admission to M.Pharm.:
The candidate who has passed B.Pharm. from any AICTE approved institution attached with university (approved by UGC) and obtained the required percentage of marks to be eligible for admission to M.Pharm. in respective University in which he / she wishes to take the admission.
Types of Seats :
a) Non-sponsored seats : Candidates who are eligible as per rule no. 1.6(b) and not sponsored by any organization will be considered for these seats. These candidates are eligible to receive stipend/ scholarship, subject to availability of financial assistance from AICTE and fulfillment of conditions laid down by AICTE from time to time.
b) Sponsored seats : Candidates who are eligible as per rule no. 1.6 (b) and are sponsored by any organization such as manufacturing, research and development, quality control, quality assurance, documentation, regulatory division or teacher teaching in diploma / degree in pharmacy institutions sponsored by employer or registered qualified person (working with retail or whole sale pharmacy / Hospital Pharmacy and whose name is approved by Food and Drug Administration) Sponsored by employer, after completion of B. Pharm. Degree and as a full time employee.
c) Seats for SC/ST category candidates : The admissions to this category are available to the SC and ST category candidates who are eligible as per rule no. 1.6 (b) belonging to the state of Maharashtra only. The reservation policy is subjected to the rules and regulations laid down by the Government of Maharashtra from time to time.
d) Foreign Nationals / Foreign students / Persons of Indian origin / Children of NRI/ Children of Indian workers in gulf countries : These admissions will be done at the institute level from the candidates who are eligible as per rule no. 1.6 (b) as per merit subjected to the permission from AICTE and Govt. of Maharashtra
M.Pharm. ASSO-CET-2008 : M.Pharm. Common Entrance Test
Candidates who have neither valid GATE score nor appeared in GATE shall have to secure non zero score in M.Pharm. ASSO-CET-2008 conducted by competent authority to be eligible for claiming admission subject to the condition that no GATE qualified candidate is available. The candidates having valid GATE score need not to appear for M.Pharm. ASSO-CET-2008 because at the time of admission they will be given preference over the candidates who have non zero CET score in respective category. The information about M.Pharm. ASSO-CET-2008 is available on website www.auppc.org
Important Dates
1. Sale of information brochure alongwith Application form at all ARC's: 23/06/2008 to 28/06/2008
(Inclusive Holidays)
2. Submission of Application form through ARC's: 23/06/2008 to 28/06/2008
(Inclusive Holidays)
3. Date of M.Pharm. ASSO-CET 2008: 06/07/2008 at 11:00 am.
For More Details visit: www.auppc.org.

subset: commoncrawl


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Jays @ Yanks pregame
Good news on the Vernon Wells front. Jays skip Cito Gaston said Wells is scheduled to make his first Grapefruit League appearance of the spring as a designated hitter on Friday in Dunedin. Wells is coming back from a strained left hammy, suffered Feb. 23.
Gaston said Wells will play center field for maybe three innings on Saturday, will be off on Sunday and then will DH again on Monday. The hope is that Wells will be fine to play center by Opening Day. He played in a Minors game again on Thursday with no issues.
Gaston said Scott Rolen (stiff back) is scheduled to take some batting practice tomorrow and he should be OK in a day or two to play. As for Travis Snider (left knee), Gaston said he's going to be given a few days off, but the injury isn't considered serious.
Rod Barajas and Alex Rios, both back from the World Baseball Classic, will be in the lineup tomorrow in Dunedin as well. Gaston also said that Scott Downs looked good in his Minor League appearance on Wednesday. Downs is skedded to pitch one inning on Saturday in his first Grapefruit League game.
Today's lineup:
Joe Inglett, RF
Aaron Hill, 2B
Adam Lind, DH
Lyle Overbay, 1B
Jason Lane, CF
Jose Bautista, LF
Scott Campbell, 3B
Raul Chavez, C
John McDonald, SS
Casey Janssen, P
Jorge Posada, C
Johnny Damon, LF
Nick Swisher, 1B
Hideki Matsui, DH
Xavier Nady, RF
Cody Ransom, 3B
Melky Cabrera, CF
Angel Berroa, 2B
Ramiro Pena, SS
A.J. Burnett, P
9 Comments
I wonder what happend to Janssen.
The Yankee annoucers said he experienced"tightness". I don't like the sound of that.
Burnett took a shot, but seems OK other than being a little out of sync since before the line drive.
Oh yeah, I meant to add that Burres did a nice job bailing out Janssen coming in with the bases loaded and no outs. Too bad he didn't fare so well in the next two innings.
I hate to say this, but I have expressed concern multiple times about what appeared to me to be a "rushing" of stretching out Janssen. There was no reason to press him, and now he's experiencing tightness in his shoulder caused by-guess what-muscle fatigue-caused by-guess what the overwork.
What a bunch of idiots-it's not like we don't have lots of arms, we keep pissing about with this kid and we will destroy his career.
And if the Jays medical staff cleared him for this workload, I say we got the wrong medical staff and its time to replace them with people who know what the hell they're doing.
gjays you said it Janssen should be slowing added to the bull pen not stretched into a starter I also have said that from the start. Its not fair to him or anyone else to rush him. we have Richmond, mills, and Clement to handle the back end of the rotation.
I dunno which way is better for janssen, you know as a starter he only pitches every 4th day or so and has a bullpen in between. As a guy in the 'pen he is expected to be ready to go whenever, if he can't go whenever he should be in triple A. Tightness isn't much, discomfort happens all the time, at least Casey's bein honest about it, keep your fingers crossed, I know I will
Im sure Toronto's medical staff knows more about his injury than any of us. I wouldnt call them idiots, considering you know they are Doctors. Im sure the last thing they want to do it ruin a players career. The shoulder is delicate and some guys never recover fully from their injuries. Its not the doctors fault.
The thing that really concerned me in the post was the statement it was as a result of muscle fatigue. To me that means too many pitches thrown. True, he only goes into games every 5th day, but they also have their "throw days" in which he tosses at least as many or more than he does in a game.
I still think, considering the injury, he should have been eased into a 1 inning bull pen role. Eased into meaning, at the start he only goes every 4-5 days and down the road that changes to once every two days, as an example. Too many guys with this injury never come back-that's a well known fact.
Any errors we make with any pitcher should always be on the side of caution, not maximum effort. They are simply too valuable to burn. At least, that's my opinion.
So exactly which ones of the training staff are Doctors-none that I can see. How do we know if an actual Doctor looked at Janssen or just some of the training staff?
All I know, is Janssen had a very serious injury, one which a lot of guys never come back from and they pressed him and possibly hurt him again.
I still haven't seen them announce they're sending Janssen for an MRI yet, which, in my view, is the very minimum they should do to ensure no further damage before they wind him up again.
I also have no idea who made the decision to stretch him out like they did-whoever made that decision is the idiot.
Let's hope they do not make the same mistake with McGowan.
One way or the other though, I expect the problem with Janssen opens the door for Mills who goes today. It will be interesting, as well, to see if the Jays recall Cecil or Romero, just in case Richmond can't get ready or can't produce.
So let's see what Mills is made of today, the door certainly just swung wide open for him. Good luck to him.


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From the Open-Publishing Calendar
From the Open-Publishing Newswire
Indybay Feature
Related Categories: Americas | South Bay | Environment & Forest DefenseView other events for the week of 5/ 7/2013
|Save the Amazon Ecuador
|Tuesday May 07
|Import this event into your personal calendar.
|Location Details
San Jose Peace and Justice Center
48 S 7th St
|Event Type
Writer Michelle Cordova of La Oferta Newspaper and boardmember of San Jose Peace & Justice Center speaks on the recent news of selling the Amazon to Chinese oil companies in Ecuador.
Description of Talk:
Ecuador is the most biodiverse nation in the world. The Amazon rainforest is home to nine different native nationalities, some of whom have no contact with civilization. They have taught Ecuadorians the importance of nature, and are the reason why Ecuador became the first country in the world to recognize the law of the Rights of Nature or Ecosystem Rights.
However now the Ecuadorian government is promoting five mega mining projects and is planning the auction off 3 million hectares or half of the rainforest (one third of the country) to Chinese oil firms that will devastate the environment and native communities.Seven nationalities in the Ecuadorian Amazon have issued a declaration denouncing the proposed auction while neighbor countries are declaring an environmental state of emergency.
Suggested Donation $5-10 (no one turned away for lack of funds)
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While shopping around for crap I'll have to buy to prepare for the birth of my baby, I've been researching breast pumps. In doing so, I've learned of all the varied activities a new mom can do if she uses a hands-free breast pump. I realize that for many mothers, breast-pumping is a necessity, but will you really be rolling calls and sending out TPS reports when you have containers suctioned to your tits? And will you find delight in this sort of multitasking? If so, here are all the awesome things you can do while milking yourself.
You can do yoga in a Ren Faire wedding gown.
You can do a photo shoot and your homework at the same time.
You can chat with the guys you meet on Match.com.
You can go to an Audrey Hepburn costume party.
You can drink coffee, and if you need milk you don't even have to get up and go to the fridge.
You can feign surprise.
You can drink vodka while bullshitting on the phone with your girlfriends.
You can drink alone.


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COVID-19 updates
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Meet the StaffFind a directory of doctors and departments at all Mayo Clinic campuses. Visit now.
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Visit Our SchoolsEducators at Mayo Clinic train tomorrow's leaders to deliver compassionate, high-value, safe patient care. Choose a degree.
Professional ServicesExplore Mayo Clinic's many resources and see jobs available for medical professionals. Get updates.
Philanthropy at Mayo ClinicYour support accelerates powerful innovations in patient care, research and education. Give today.
Dr. Todd Nippoldt is a board-certified specialist in internal medicine and endocrinology and metabolism. He has special expertise in the area of hormone disorders affecting the pituitary and adrenal glands as well as the testes and ovaries. He has been a member of the Mayo Clinic staff since 1988.
He's a consultant in the Division of Endocrinology, Metabolism and Nutrition and works with patients who have disorders of the hormone-producing glands. Common disorders include diabetes, thyroid problems, osteoporosis and elevated cholesterol levels.
He's also involved in andrology, the study of male hormonal disorders, male infertility and male sexual dysfunction, and is an assistant professor of medicine at College of Medicine, Mayo Clinic.
Dr. Nippoldt, a St. Paul, Minn., native, has also contributed to "Mayo Clinic Health Letter," the "Mayo Clinic Family Health Book" and a Mayo Clinic CD-ROM. He's a fellow in the American College of Physicians and a member of the American Society for Reproductive Medicine, the American Society of Andrology, The Endocrine Society, The Pituitary Society and the American Association of Clinical Endocrinologists.
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1) Script Title: Basic Ajax Routine (get & post)
2) Script URL (on DD): http://www.dynamicdrive.com/dynamici...jaxroutine.htm
3) Describe problem:
I'm successfully calling a perl script using post method. So far so good.
I'm not a javascript programmer and using sample, the result is displayed using an alert command/box.
Knowing I have defined a div section with id=postresult, how do you replace the javascript alert command with another one to put myajax.responseText in postresult.
I tested
document.getElementById(mercimsg).innerHTML=myajax.responseText and many other thing ....
Going further: how do you test the first word in myajax.responseText is "Error" so you can display the response in an alert box (as it does now) otherwise display it in div
Sorry for asking something so very basic.
Thanks in advance


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Toast of the Nation: Donald Harrison Quintet at First Night Boston
Please see the full events listing for upcoming events.
The Donald Harrison Quintet plays a New Year's Eve concert that will be broadcast worldwide on NPR's "Toast of the Nation." Eric Jackson, host of WGBH's "Eric in the Evening," will serve as the broadcast's master of ceremonies. Alto saxophonist Harrison, a 1981 Berklee alumnus, is a New Orleans-born traditionalist, a modern jazz trendsetter, a former Jazz Messenger, a nurturer of young talent, a composer, and a bandleader. A kind of Crescent City Renaissance man, Harrison has performed with a musical who's who that includes Art Blakey, Dr. John, Digable Planets, Lena Horne, and Miles Davis, to name just a few. An artist in residence at Tulane University, Harrison's most recent recordings are This Is Jazz: Live at the Blue Note, with Billy Cobham and Ron Carter, and New Orleans Gumbo with Dr. John. Joining Harrison on New Year's Eve will be his longtime band mates Detroit Brooks (guitar), Zaccai Curtis (piano), Max Moran '10 (bass), and Joe Dyson '11 (drums).
New Year's Eve 2013 marks the tenth consecutive year that Berklee, 89.7 WGBH, and NPR have collaborated to kick-off the live jazz-based holiday celebration "Toast of the Nation." Heard on more than 200 NPR affiliate stations, NPR Worldwide, NPRmusic.org, and Sirius XM Radio, "Toast of the Nation" begins in Boston and will move across the country, with the Wynton Marsalis Septet live from Dizzy's Club Coca-Cola at Jazz at Lincoln Center, and performances for each time zone, from east to west, as the night moves on.


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About Us
Fairfax Collision is an OEM Certified Collision Care Center for KIA, Hyundai, Nissan, Infiniti, GM and all Fiat Chrysler Automobiles.
Gallery of Work
View Fairfax Collision Center's state-of-the-art auto body shop and samples of our work.
Questions most often asked by Fairfax Collision Center customers.
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The damage that was done to my car in the accident was fixed - and fixed well, paint job was good and blended in seamlessly with the rest of the car, and they cleaned and vacuumed the interior before I picked up the car. Nice unexpected touch. Carl was great to deal with - very friendly and trustworthy.
Sarah K.


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http://mmajunkie.com Fresh off a busy and successful streak in competition, welterweight MMA veteran Jason High (13-3 MMA, 0-0 SF) is bound for Strikeforce.
High recently signed a multi-fight agreement with the California-based promotion and is expected to make his debut in the coming months.
Manager Steve Rusich of Triple Crown Fighter broke the news Sunday to MMAjunkie.com (www.mmajunkie.com).
High most recently was seen on the HDNet-televised Titan Fighting Championship 16 event, where he submitted Strikeforce and Bellator vet Rudy Bears with a guillotine choke in 51 seconds. It undoubtedly was a relief to score a quick win after he took respected Japanese veteran Hayato Sakurai the distance at DREAM "Dynamite!! 2010" and scored a huge upset with a split decision.
The pair of victories upped High's streak to four after a pair of high-profile losses sent him back to the drawing board. He entered the 2009 DREAM welterweight grand prix and dispatched Yuya Shirai and Andre Galvao in the opening and semifinal rounds, respectively, before getting knocked out by a head kick from Marius Zaromskis in the tournament finale. He then signed a UFC contract only to be released by the promotion after a points loss to Charlie Brenneman at UFC Fight Night 21.
With two recent high-profile victories under his belt, High could provide much-needed depth to the Strikeforce welterweight division. Nick Diaz, the promotion's 170-pound titleholder, could run out of credible competition if he gets through expected clashes this year with slugger Paul Daley and prospect Tyron Woodley.
MMAjunkie.com will have more on High's debut as it becomes available.


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Vodafone has cited "concern" from its pre-paid customers as a reason for abandoning plans to charge data in per megabyte (MB) blocks.
The company announced last week that it would be switching from per kilobyte (kB) data charges to per MB charges but has now abandoned that decision following "feedback from Vodafone prepaid customers".
The initial proposed changes would have resulted in Vodafone prepaid customers paying for internet use in a minimum of 1MB blocks, regardless of whether they used that full amount of data.
"We have decided to not only reverse our decision to introduce per MB charging, we'll also be dropping the existing minimum data session to 1kB for all our prepaid customers," explained Vodafone's Director of Customer Care, Cormac Hodgkinson.
"We value customer input that helps us deliver pricing that is simple and makes sense," he said. "We are determined to show our customers we are listening."
Optus generally currently charges data in 1MB blocks, while Telstra prices its data in per kB intervals.
Despite the backdown on data charges, Vodafone confirmed it would not reverse its decision to scrap unlimited mobile access to social networking services Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, FourSquare and MySpace from Wednesday, February 13.
The company's unlimited social networking offer provided free data access through the respective social network's official smartphone app, or if customers used the official website through their smartphone browser. Interestingly, Optus ceased offering unmetered social networking access on its post-paid contract plans last December.
Last week, Vodafone announced it would be dumping the Crazy John's retail brand it acquired from Patricia Ilhan, widow of founder John Ilhan, in 2008. The telco announced it will close or rebrand Crazy John's retail stores across Australia as part of a new "single-brand strategy".


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In the wake of Ben Affleck's Batman casting breaking the Internet across its knee, we thought it would be best to revisit at least seven other times fans were sure a casting spelled doom and ruination.
7. Jennifer Lawrence as Katniss Everdeen (The Hunger Games)
7. Jennifer Lawrence as Katniss Everdeen (The Hunger Games)
Before Jennifer Lawrence went on to win fans' hearts at the U.S. box office with $408 million (a feat Iron Man 3 only just NOW barely matched) and everyone else' with her Oscar Winning turn in last fall's Silver Linings Playbook, she was The Girl Who Couldn't Catch Fire. At least that is what a very vocal backlash in the fan community, as well as some decidedly harsh critics, had to say.
When she was cast over a slew of other fan favorites, including actual teenagers like Hailee Steinfeld, the then-21-year-old Lawrence was ridiculed for being too old, too tall and, most egregiously stupid, too "fat." The actress who at 19 earned an Oscar nomination for playing a dirt-poor orphan of Appalachia in Winter's Bone was considered too well fed to star in a film called The Hunger Games (which was also shot in a different part of Appalachia). Even after the film was released, critics for The New York Times and The Hollywood Reporter suggested that she was too womanly and suffered from "lingering baby fat." Funny how less than a month later, after The Hunger Games became one of the biggest films of 2012, some of the same critics were running glowing pieces about why Lawrence's Katniss is a "new type of woman warrior" for young girls to admire. Riiiight.
5. Audrey Hepburn as Holly Golightly (Breakfast at Tiffany's)
Before the Internet Age, fan skepticism and outrage was kept to the quiet dignity of their own homes or ignored Letters to the Editor. However, sometimes these fans could find a famous champion to carry on their disdain at Hollywood developments. For example, it doesn't hurt when the author who created a character leads the charge. Look no further than when Truman Capote reacted in disbelief to the casting of Audrey Hepburn in her now most iconic role.
When Capote sold the rights to his short novella Breakfast at Tiffany's to Paramount Pictures, he did so with the express wish that Marilyn Monroe play the part of Holly Golightly, New York's ultimate Goodtime Girl. After all, Holly is supposed to be seductive, charismatic and able to ensnare any man on her hook, if only ever fleetingly. But when Monroe passed on the part because Lee Strasberg advised Norma Jeane that playing a prostitute would be bad for her image, the part went to the decidedly less bombshell Hepburn. When Capote saw that this thin, gamine waif was going to be his ultimate creation of superficial and jaded femininity, he remarked, "Paramount double-crossed me in every way and cast Audrey." Thank. God.
4. Anne Hathaway as Catwoman (The Dark Knight Rises)
Everyone should recall this: Anne Hathaway cast as Selina Kyle aka Catwoman? What? How? A DISNEY PRINCESS?!
Mind you many of those loudest critics likely never saw her riveting work in Brokeback Mountain or Rachel Getting Married (the latter of which got her a well-earned Oscar nomination). And if they wanted seductive, they had to look no further than Havoc. Yet for many, Hathaway was little more than the chick from The Princess Diaries with a very, very bubbly public persona. Hardly the stuff of femme fatale. That's why all the way up until the film's release, there were still blogs like this filled with unflattering photoshopped pictures and snap judgments based on movies she did 10 years prior. But lo and behold when the movie came out in July 2012, she was the single best-reviewed facet of the movie. Whether you were Michael Caine or a message board poster, the only thing you could talk about was how good she was in the skintight leather and a mean pout. Even President Obama gave Ms. Hathaway a shout out when he said, "I got a chance to see Batman, and she was the best thing in it."
2. Vivien Leigh as Scarlett O'Hara (Gone with the Wind)
Casting a Brit in an iconic American role always earns a whisper of chagrin from U.S. audiences and press prior to release. However, none was more thunderous than when Vivien Leigh, an obscure English actress born in British India, was cast as Southern belle and revisionist history heroine Scarlett O'Hara in David O. Selznick's adaptation of Gone with the Wind. Often cited as one of the most beloved novels of the Depression, particularly in states south of Missouri and east of Oklahoma, Gone with the Wind was practically American heritage in its few short years of existence. As the ultimate soap opera epic, it captured idyllic daydreams with a mythic, fairy tale quality. And at the center of all that passion was Scarlett O'Hara, everyone's favorite wicked creature.
The casting process, lovingly followed in the press as The Search for Scarlett, lasted two full years. Unsurprisingly, when Selznick finally settled on his admittedly dark horse candidate, Vivien Leigh, there took a lot of coaxing. Angry letters poured in, Gossip columnists were pressured to boost Leigh's heritage, and a tightrope was long walked all the way until the movie's Atlanta premiere. Today, whatever inclinations people may have towards its politics 70 years on, there is no denying that Leigh is magnificent. She not only won an Oscar for the picture, she won a place in permanent cinematic immortality as one of the most fiercely realized leading female performances ever committed to celluloid. Fiddle-dee-dee.
The casting process, lovingly followed in the press as The Search for Scarlett, lasted two full years. Unsurprisingly, when Selznick finally settled on his admittedly dark horse candidate, Vivien Leigh, there took a lot of coaxing. Angry letters poured in, Gossip columnists were pressured to boost Leigh's heritage, and a tightrope was long walked all the way until the movie's Atlanta premiere. Today, whatever inclinations people may have towards its politics 70 years on, there is no denying that Leigh is magnificent. She not only won an Oscar for the picture, she won a place in permanent cinematic immortality as one of the most fiercely realized leading female performances ever committed to celluloid. Fiddle-dee-dee.
1. Michael Keaton as Batman (Batman)
Yes the most obvious comparison is still the most fitting. Michael Keaton, America's official Mr. Mom, was cast by Tim Burton to play the Dark Knight.
Keaton is not an assuming man. As a comedian with thin, receding hair and a height of five-feet and nine-inches, a muscular uberman he is not. Also, when he was cast in 1988, many could not get past that this was the guy from Nightshift and Beetlejuice. Were they remaking the campy Adam West TV show? The Wall Street Journal reported on the hundreds (some say tens of thousands) of protest letters they received over the casting. There was literally protesting in the streets. And then this image appeared:
The whining stopped. To this day there is still a school of thought that prefers Keaton to all actors who have donned the cowl, even Christian Bale. Not bad for an actor who The Times once described as a prankster.
There you have seven actors who fans were once oh-so-sure would suck. But the list is actually much longer. I can recall the skepticism that surrounded Hugh Jackman as Wolverine and Rooney Mara as Lisbeth Salander. One can also note a slew of others in history from Hepburn again as Eliza Dolittle to Ian Fleming's own misgivings toward Sean Connery. Ultimately, gut-reactions tend to be filled with hyperbole and slight embarrassment from hindsight. Hence, it may be best to take a step back before pulling out the message boards.
The Others at Den of Geek