text:
Search ends: As devastated parents grieve, hunt for killer intensifies
After all the rain and high winds in recent days, 68-year-old North Garden area cattle farmer Dave Bass says he went out Tuesday morning, January 26, to check his fences. Around 8:30am, in an area he describes as far from Route 29 South, which fronts his farm, he spotted what he initially thought might be a deer carcass.
"I was on my tractor feeding cows on a remote part of the farm I don't normally go to," says Bass, who quickly realized he had spotted a body.
"It's a shock," says Bass.
State Police Colonel W. Steven Flaherty convened a press conference in Charlottesville at 5 o'clock that evening where he said that, due to "significant items of evidence," investigators believe the body was indeed Morgan Dana Harrington, the 20-year-old who disappeared October 17 from a Metallica concert in Charlottesville.
And so the search for Morgan Harrington switches from the case of a missing person to a homicide case, as Albemarle's top prosecutor, Denise Lunsford, arrived mid-morning to inspect the scene.
State Police spokesperson Corinne Geller revealed that what farmer Bass found was "skeletal remains" and that the remains and scene were evaluated by forensic technicians, who will make the positive identification. Her colleague Lt. Joe Rader said the body was found in a hay field that had been cut in August, so that when the body arrived it may have been hidden in waist-high grass.
"We have a perpetrator or perpetrators at large that we certainly intend to catch and to prosecute," Rader said at the press conference.
The search for Morgan Harrington was arguably the biggest story of 2009, with the photogenic Virginia Tech education major's face appearing on everything from pizza boxes to the cover of People magazine. The plight of her parents, an everycouple consisting of a high level hospital physician administrator and a nurse with a tendency to make humanitarian trips to developing nations, drew the attention of the father of abducted teen Elizabeth Smart.
"One of our fans is missing," read a message from the band members of Metallica, which contributed $50,000 toward an eventual $150,000 reward. And when a professional search organization announced a chance for the public to join the search, 1,600 volunteers leapt from armchair to outdoors to scour the areas around the John Paul Jones Arena.
As it turned out, that search– like many conducted by police– turned up nothing in the way of hard evidence, so parents Dan and Gil Harrington had to face the prospect of Christmas without their daughter as well as a new life as just a three-person family including their son Alex.
Their steadfast desire to find their daughter– last seen walking "wobbly" across the parking lots of UVA's John Paul Jones Arena after controversially being denied reentry to the concert and hitchhiking on a bridge– meant a steady grind of media interviews including appearances on national television programs such as Nancy Grace, Good Morning America, and the Today show. All in an effort, they said, to keep the story, the search, and–- they hoped against hope– their daughter alive.
On the day of this spine-chilling discovery, they could not immediately be reached for comment by the Hook, but they informed at least one media outlet that, as they got into a car and made the two-hour drive from their home in Roanoke, they had little doubt who was lying in a hayfield in southern Albemarle.
Nestled on the Western slopes of Gibson Mountain near the crossroads known as North Garden, Anchorage Farm is reached from a red-gated, cattle-guarded private drive connecting directly to Route 29. That kind of access, along Central Virginia's main north-south thoroughfare, coupled with the seclusion of a large agricultural tract, make it an optimal place for stealthily discarding a body– though the alleged inaccessibility of the site where Harrington's body was discovered has caused some to wonder who would know the lay of the land.
Although Anchorage Farm appears mostly open fields, stands of trees around its periphery also mean that, even from the adjacent Blandemar Farm Estates neighborhood, activity on the site may not be visible–- particularly at night. Harrington was last seen on the Copely Road bridge around 9:30pm.
Property owner Bass, who describes himself as primarily a cattle farmer and who bought Anchorage Farm in 1983, says the body was found about a mile and a half from Route 29. But, citing a request from law enforcement, he declined to get more specific about the location on his 742-plus acre tract where cows were grazing on discovery day.
News about the discovery of the body of a blonde woman clad in dark clothing traveled fast. With no other blonde people missing from the Charlottesville-Albemarle area other than Harrington, attention speedily turned to Anchorage Farm, parts of which are listed on the National Register of Historic Places.
According to a Hook reporter who arrived at the site shortly before 11am, Albemarle Police cordoned the driveway leading to the Red Hill-area property, and Police Lt. Todd Hopwood, spokesperson for the Department, citing concerns about harmful speculation, declined to offer any information or to answer questions.
However, forensic anthropologist Lee Meadows Jantz of the University of Tennessee's so-called "body farm" says that a body discarded for three months would still have its clothing intact– even cotton, though it's the first fabric to degrade. Next in line are silk and leather, but polyester, she says "lasts forever."
"The remains are going to be in pretty bad shape," says Jantz. "You're not going to be able to look at her and identify her."
One parent who knows more than he ever wanted to know about this type of discovery is Harley Showalter of Harrisonburg.
In March 1996, his daughter, Alicia Showalter Reynolds, was abducted from Route 29, and two months later her body was found by a passerby walking along a country road in the rural community of Lignum. The passerby reportedly saw buzzards circling over a field getting cleared of trees, and his quoted exclamation, "Thank God for buzzards," might have surprised some folks.
"It's hell and agony," Showalter explains today, "not to know where a valued member of your family is. Not knowing is bad, but bad news is better than no news."
For Showalter, the revelation meant that whatever pain his daughter, a married pharmacology student on her way to shop in Charlottesville for her twin brother's then-upcoming wedding, had ended.
"It takes a long time to move away from a life event like that," says Showalter, who was asked by a reporter if he had a message for the Harringtons, who–- uncharacteristically–- chose not to participate in the Tuesday night press conference.
"Our message to them would be that we're sorry," says Showalter. "We were hoping for a better outcome."
–with additional reporting by Lisa Provence and Courteney Stuart
–last updated at 7:42pm Tuesday.
5:02pm update: State Police Colonel W. Steven Flaherty suggests that the body was 20-year-old Morgan Dana Harrington due to "significant items of evidence."
4:35pm update: The man who found the body estimates it was about 1.5 miles from Route 29.
12:44pm update: "I was on my tractor feeding cows on a remote part of the farm I don't normally go to," says the man who actually found the body, Dave Bass. But after all the rain and high winds in recent days, he went out Tuesday morning to check his fences and spotted what he initially thought might be a deer. "It's a shock," says Bass.
11:51am update: The State Police appear to have taken charge of the scene, and spokesperson Corinne Geller describes the finding as "skeletal remains" and says the remains and scene are being evaluated by forensic technicians.
11:27am update: The State Police Crime vehicle has just arrived to the site.
The body of a blonde woman clad in dark clothing has been found at a southern Albemarle County farm, several miles from Charlottesville, according to a reliable source. With no blonde persons missing from the Charlottesville-Albemarle area other than 20-year-old Morgan Dana Harrington, whose October 17 disappearance from a Metallica concert touched off a national hunt for her abductor, attention turns to that case.
According to a Hook reporter now on the site, Albemarle Police have created a human cordon at the driveway leading to the Red Hill-area property where the body was spotted. Police Lt. Todd Hopwood, spokesperson for the Department, citing concerns about harmful speculation, declined to offer any information or to answer questions at this time.
The site appears to be part of Anchorage Farm, an over 700-acre tract of cattle and hay pastures owned and occupied by David & Nancy Bass. The farm has been accepted for the National Register of Historic Places.
The search for Morgan Harrington was arguably the biggest story of 2009, with the Virginia Tech education major's face appearing on everything from pizza boxes to the cover of People magazine. The plight of her parents drew the attention of the father of abducted teen Elizabeth Smart; and when a professional search organization announced a chance for the public to join the search, 1,600 volunteers signed up.
As it turned out, parents Dan and Gil Harrington had to face the prospect of Christmas without their daughter as well as a new life as just a three-person family including their son Alex. Their steadfast desire to find the daughter, who was last seen walking "wobbly" across a parking lots and hitchhiking on a bridge, meant a $150,000 reward, a website, and steady grind of media interviews including appearances on national television programs such as Nancy Grace, Good Morning America, and the Today show.
But on the day of this spine-chilling discovery, they could not immediately be reached for comment.
Nestled on the Western slopes of Gibson Mountain near the crossroads known as North Garden, Anchorage Farm is reached from a gated private drive connecting directly to Route 29. That kind of access, along the area's main north-south thoroughfare, coupled with the seclusion of a large agricultural tract, make it an optimal place for quickly discarding a body.
Although Anchorage Farm appears mostly open fields, stands of trees around its periphery mean that, even from the adjacent Blandemar Farm Estates neighborhood, activity on the site may not be visible–- particularly at night.
–-developing story –-
–last updated at 1:15pm Tuesday/Correction– Anchorage Farm's private drive is gated.
–original headlines: "Tragic tale: Body of woman found at farm" "It's her: police confirm body as Harrington's
419 comments
A preliminary check across eight psychics who claimed "visions" on this case shows their score was 0 in 8 for accuracy. Not too surprisingly none of the eight agreed with each other on the geographic location, nor distinguished anything where the body was recovered that identified that area over any other county location across the United States. None pinpointed the date when the body would be found, by whom, or provided any useful information that helped in the outcome of this case. Nothing. Zip, zero.
Did anyone look at Never Been to a Game's post???? If not watch the last episode of "House" and then read the post....shivers.
This outcome is so intriguing. A couple of thoughts (pure speculation, I know)...
1) If her purse and cell phone were found, does this point to her not going willingly to whatever person she left with? And if she was forced into the vehicle, does the dump-off location point to someone who knows the Red Hill area?
2) If she was not forced into a vehicle, but rather coerced, could it be someone who knows her or one of her friends, OR knows about her somehow? Thus, they would take one of the two main routes back to "their" hometown (Roanoke) to do the dastardly deed.
In either case, it will be fascinating to discover how the body got in such a remote location.
There's nothing on the ticket about re-entry.
Blaming or even insinuating JPJ has any responsibility for Morgans death is way off base. This statement is equivalent to blaming a grocery store for someones weight problem. Rules are rules. I'm sure measures are now being considered to change this.
The larger issue remains the same, Morgan's family & friends are grieving a life taken in a cruel way. They will never recover from this, they will only learn to live with it....somehow.
quote: "I've followed these forums since October and really I'm impressed with most the people who post in general, esp given the nature of other boards, but insofar as anyone can discern anything about someone from a bbs, I find you, GSOE, to be a particularly admirable man. It follows you were in LE. I wish they were all like you."
Wow! Thank You!
I have always tried to be a decent and honest person.
@outraged. wow. ok. You are obviously missing the "declined his offer of help" part of the sentence. I guess JPJ should have been required to force medical services upon an unwilling 20 year old, then?
I give up. Let us then go back to our 20 something "children". Buy them tickets to mega shows with our mega bucks. Hope that they will think for themselves one day.
Nothing adds up.... but why do some of you think that the venue should be held accountable for her death? As a frequent concert attendee, Its always posted as no re-entry.
Not sure if this applies : But at a concert I went to this past summer there were people tail gating , then entered the concert... one of them was thrown out for their behavior , not sure if they consumed alcohol with in... im sure they did... after getting kicked out they drove home, striking a another driver... death was a result. The venue was not responsible for that life that was taken.
por le Damon
"©crasez l'inf¢me
What a tragedy. This poor girl was abducted and murdered.
Let's hope the FBI is brought in to investigate this and that they expend more effort on this than was wasted pursuing the bogeyman who "attacked" student body president Daisy Lundy a few years ago.
my heart goes out two the family, and all missing black women who dont get no cover.
Let's be fair, Did you miss the bleeding part? Did you miss the denied re-enry part? I Think more help should have been given than she received. I truly believe that the policy at JPJ needs to be changed. I'm outraged at what happened to her and what could have been prevented by many. Other than that I'm out. God bless you and the Harrington's
quote: "To GSOE, can we settle before you call the tough, smart lawyer? :)
No. He has to eat too. :)
I hereby proclaim that GSOE has unconditional re-entry priviledges from this day forward whenver I open my own venue.
Too bad nobody was intelligent enough to extend this courtesy to an injured Morgan Harrington when she needed it most!
And I promise to hire only masculine, trim, professional Cops with an iq of at least 140 to deal with GSOE.
That would be a pleasant break I suppose. But I would settle for beautiful little girlie cops! It's quite amazing how female cops can talk to and deal with people so much better than the Rambo males! This must be why the girls do so well in law enforcement! :)
@ travel: could it be a barn and a riding ring for horses? C'ville is big horse country. . . .
She could have been parting there and didn't want her friends know, wondered down through the woods and coded in the field
Her friends did not get the message until after the concert. The show had started and they were unable to hear the phione.
If she had a wound that needed to be treated it should have been done. Somebody at UVA needs to say "we're sorry." What if she slipped and fell in the bathroom? She could have had a subdural and then wandered off. I doubt it..but nonethless she should have been treated...
UVa would then argue that she didn't ask for help therefore it wasn't provided and that security guards are not medical personel.
If UVA is smart they apoligize and have some type of permanent memorial at JPJ for Morgan. It will be a start after having not domated a penny to the reward fund.
For UVA, a day of reckoning will be coming in this case
@Let's be fair "What did JPJ do that showed her no dignity?" Really?
Are you really this callous? Do you really not get the magnitude of what you are asking? Do you write off the fact that this person is dead and not coming back? I won't reiterate the bulk of what I've already said, and what Dakota, Big Dog, and others have patiently tried to explain to you. It's obvious, there is no sense in trying to convince you that JPJ has a flawed policy. You are simply one of those people who believe that everyone is responsible for themselves. I guess I have to respect your convictions but I'll never,ever agree with you that JPJ?RMC does not have to bear some responsibility for their lack of even the iota of minimal care for their patrons.
look for the most obvious, the loner approx 27-32
one parent
dark hair
light eyes
holds a grudge recently against a parent.
drives older blue/green van or truck.
wanted help in some work there within 2009
drop out
very shy like.
god help her.
i lost a child.
Eye roll...the same people who wouldn't let girl with head wound into arena or same professional who treated it as missing persons early on.
The authorities would not remotely say it was likely to be her unless they were 100% certain it is her. There is always the process of positive ID, yes, but having been on the police end of it, even if they're still waiting for a positive ID, they always know who it's not.
Prayers for the Harringtons....
Oh but I good at it
Tim..UVA could set up a memorial and make some serious changes at JPA...and maybe say we're sorry. That would be an act of kindness to those around us including the Harrington family.
Like everyone else, I hoped that Morgan would be found alive. I hoped she was away with a boyfriend, finding herself -ANYTHING BUT THIS..
Having said that, I'm glad that the parents have closure. I'm glad that the remains were not fully skeletonized -I honestly believe there will be enough evidence to get the killer...Thank God the owner found her before further decomposition could take place.
The fairness of the no reentry policy is debatable. You can develop strong arguements for and against. True, it is a standard policy with major venues..most of which go so far as to put the policy on the tickets themselves. One could say if Morgan had been readmitted, she would be here but it does not address what lured her out of the venue to begin with. How many people fall victim to crimes due to the no reentry policy ? You could take this bus to several destinations....I do find it strange that the JP arena did not contribute to the reward fund. Even if you fully support the no reentry policy, it would have been the decent thing to do, after all Metallica donated to the reward, why couldn't JP ? For that matter VT should have done the decent thing and donated as well...Neither JP or VT was obligated to donate, I know, it just would have been the decent thing to do...
At any rate, I hope Morgan's killer is brought to justice soon, then the family will have full closure ..if that is possible.
Blandemar is full of extreamly wealthy people that house is tiny what in the Garage?
How can the manager of JPJ live with himself after this event?
Has the Hook interviewed him?
You are all tools! And I mean that in the most negative sense of the word. On this thread- I have read a bunch of self important gas bag speculation, pointing blame at various places. At the end of it all it is - irrelevant. A person is dead, and nothing will bring them back.
Get over yourselves. Say a prayer for the family, and move on.
"Ever heard of shrooms? This is something done in cow pastures where these shrooms grow. They are eaten or mixed in drinks and drank for the purpose of hallucinating. "
That is sort of what is sometimes done in states where they grow, but not here where they don't grow. Not to mention that it's awfully far fetched to think that underdressed girls get into cars with strangers to head out into cow pastures on dark cold nights.
@Kat, I took my cheap digital camera into another JPJ event (Disney on Ice) and photographed it, making no attempt to be discreet. My bag was searched at the entrance and nothing was said about the camera. Perhaps the Metallica concert had different rules, but clearly they allow cameras in at other events or at least look the other way.
@FLeeDaily -- If the scenarios you suggest had happened, the difference would have been that Morgan made no attempt to get back into JPJ and was not wandering around outside the arena by herself (given that it was like 40 degrees that night and she was wearing a skirt and t-shirt, I would assume she would have liked to have gone back in.) If she did indeed leave JPJ voluntarily and made no attempt to gain re-entry, than no, the re-entry policy is not to blame. We cannot assume that they wouldn't have made an exception or found a way to help her if they had known the situation.
HOWEVER, if she did attempt to gain re-entry -- and I can't shake from all the stories a definite answer to that question -- it should have been obvious to the arena staff that something was wrong, and they should have at least questioned her. "Do you have a warm place to go? Do you have a ride home? Do you need help?" Spokespeople for large venues like JPJ want us to believe that the primary reason behind rules like no re-entry is public safety. If that is the case, than their staff should be trained to look out for the welfare of individuals above all else in all situations. Yes, that would require encouraging them to think instead of blindly enforcing the rules. Furthermore, if Morgan was obviously drunk, and it seems that she was, we also have laws about underage drinking and being drunk in public. Those laws supposedly also exist to protect us. If nothing else, she should have been arrested for being in violation of those laws. I'm sure she, and her parents, would not have been happy about possible jail time and a black mark on her record, but anything would have been a better result than this.
Do Something Positive, thank you for reminding us that going back and forth here accomplishes nothing to bring justice to Morgan. I will look into this group and consider a donation.
Honestly, the way some people put it, you'd think that JPJ staff and UVA officials sat down at some point and said "what can we do to make our arena and grounds as unsafe as possible"? You are not privy to every detail of the investigation, or even most of the details. If you're forming your opinion based on news stories or rumors, then you have no idea whether the staff there have cooperated with law enforcement and worked towards providing as much information as possible to resolve this case, or whether they are trying to cover up anything. I do feel that the no re-entry policy should be revisited, and they should at least do more than just say "sorry, we're not letting you back in" in the future -- perhaps offer the waiting room that some others have suggested. But I haven't heard or seen anything to suggest that UVA has been anything less than helpful towards the investigation.
A civil case against Jp will be dismissed immediately if they are able to demonstrate that the no reentry policy was clearly communicated via signs and personnel....It is not JPs fault what Morgan did after being denied reentry. There were other options besides hitchhiking. One of which is Morgan's brother who lived nearby. He does not understand why Morgand didn't call him to pick her up.
Do Something Positive, thank you for reminding us that going back and forth here accomplishes nothing to bring justice to Morgan. I will look into this group and consider a donation.
Honestly, the way some people put it, you'd think that JPJ staff and UVA officials sat down at some point and said "what can we do to make our arena and grounds as unsafe as possible"? You are not privy to every detail of the investigation, or even most of the details. You have no idea whether the staff there have cooperated with law enforcement and worked towards providing as much information as possible to resolve this case, or whether they are trying to cover up anything. I do feel that the no re-entry policy should be revisited, and they should at least do more than just say "sorry, we're not letting you back in" in the future -- perhaps offer the waiting room that some others have suggested. But I haven't heard or seen anything to suggest that UVA has been anything less than helpful towards the investigation.
Gasgag - It it obvious that you didn't go to business school or law school. You are wrong about JPJ and you are wrong about McDonald's but that is for another posting area. Besides you are probably the reason that hairdryers have that giant warning tag - DO NOT USE IN WATER - and a picture with a BIG RED X.
I agree Italianreader: this whole tragedy was just one domino effect of one bad choice after another, starting from the time she was not allowed back into JPJ. A possible solution here would be to have a holding room for persons like Morgan who end up on the outside. This way they can come back in to a place where they are not alone and wait for their friends.
F Lee Daily - do not blame Morgan's choice of clothing for the her fate. Someone has more than likely committed a terrible crime against Morgan, and whether she was buttoned up to the neckline with a skirt down to her shoes, any pervert out there would still have taken her. Morgan's family may read these comments, and they are grieving enough as it is. They do not need blame placed on Morgan or them. A woman should be safe no matter what she is wearing from pervs, and those who kill for sport.
Amen, FLD.
Had Morgan re-gained entry to JPJ she would still be alive today.
If the Harrington family has sufficient rage and anger mingled with their grief, we will see a lawsuit against complacent UVA of extraordinary significance, which will lead to, among other outcomes, the immediate discontinuation of JPJ's no-re-entry policy, a "rule" responsible in part for their daughter's adbuction and death.
UVA has is culpable in this case.
JPJ is an entertainment venue where alcohol is sold. It also has responsibility for the safety of its attendees.
The emergency medical staff at UVA's Scott Stadium administers emergency care to dozens of incapacitated drunks at every home game. UVA clearly perceives its liability at Scott Stadium.
A 20 year old minor child stumbling around disoriented inside JPJ and in its parking area is in the same category.
Morgan's attempt to regain entry to the arena was "a cry for help," but she was turned away by agents of UVA following "the rules."
My guess is that the UVA-boosters on this page draw a paycheck from UVA.
Kat, I don't know about the shrooms, but I do want to address two comments from your post. Morgan was found on a farm off of 29S. If she was trying to go home, not back to JMU, Roanoke/Blacksburg can be reached taking 29S. You leave 29 near Lynchburg and travel state roads. Not the most direct route, especially on a dark rainy night, but we travel that way frequently to avoid I81 traffic. No insult to her meant here, but if Morgan was not in happy land, her abductor could have explained his choice by wanting to avoid I81. If her thinking was impaired, she probably didn't even notice where she was going. As for cameras at JPJ, the standing rule is no flash photography or videos. Cameras are allowed unless the performing groups have a rule against photography. Since Metallica was the headliner, I would think the decision about photography would have been their call. From posts on other sites, it seems picture taking was very common that night for other groups. Back to my comment about Morgan being impaired, I hope for her sake she was either drunk or stoned completely out of her mind. Before I'm jumped on for being insensitive, please let me explain. If she had not been physically harmed before reaching the farm, I hope she was so out of it that she had no knowledge, even if she was able to walk, of what was happening. I really want to believe that her last minutes of life were not lived in terror.
Hey Big Dog,
If a murder was not committed Morgan would still be alive today, regardless of any readmittance polcy. And wasnt it reported that she refused assistance from people either before or after she was refused re-entry? Sounds like you might have a bone to pick with UVA outside of this situation.
It seems strange that a bad guy in this case would dispose of the poor girl's body in the middle of a field, no matter how remote.
CSI fans: Is it possible for an animal to move human remains over some distance?
i am far from being on UVA's payroll. . .thats pretty funny actually
Big Dog-As a parent of children who attend events at JPJ, I have championed their no re-entry policy on other stories about Morgan and still do, even in the face of this tragic discovery. First, I never let my children go to concerts by themselves, but they (younger than 20) fully understand they are not allowed to re-enter so don't even ask me to go back to the car if they forget something. No, I do not draw a paycheck from UVa, no one in my family draws a paycheck from UVa, and I am not a UVa alumni. My heart bleeds for Morgan's family. Perhaps I would feel differently if she was my child, but I appreciate the reasoning behind the no re-entry policy. One change that I would make so that it would be solely for safety is, no re-entry, even with a newly purchased ticket. If I wished harm to someone in the arena, another $75 would not deter me.
This is just so very tragic. We were all hoping for a different ending. God bless the Harringtons. I certainly hope there is enough evidence at the crime seen to determine who the Perp could be. Rest in peace, Morgan.
The no-readmittance policy contributed directly to Morgan's death, and we will see it so argued.
UVA is culpable.
Morgan's tragic loss could have been prevented had UVA more interest in safety than crowd-control.
Do you know something that no one else knows BIG DOG? You sure are persistant at placing the blame squarely on JPJ and UVA instead of the person who killed her.
Lannie - I completely side with you on your last sentences. I hope as well she was too out of it to fully understand her sad end. Back to the camera, I had read a Canadian's blog about attending a Metallica concert (perhaps venue's are different in Canada), but she had two camera's on her. One in plain sight, and one hidden. The one in plain sight was taken from her. Her smaller hidden camera however, went undetected and she was able to take pictures at the concert she attended. All I'm saying is that it is a good place to look...JPJ's "lost and found" box, or whatever.
Unfortunately I do know about shrooms. I am much older now, but I was a young invincible teen/adult once. I am thankful to have survived my youth. Therefore, I am in no way judging Morgan's character, and I offered this theory only as that. This is how it works. You trespass on someone's farm who is known to have cows. You pick them and eat them as they are, or boil them and drink them with kool-aid or some other beverage of choice. You see they grow from the very fertilized ground provided by cattle. It's a stretch anyway. I'm just trying to look at this from every angle. Not that it's my job to.
CC - I already said it was stretch. So, thank you for agreeing with me.
Big Dog:
Please don't be so closed minded.
There are so many what ifs...you cannot change them now.
There isn't any proof that she tried to gain re-entry. She may have left voluntarily. If she were targeted then nothing would have stopped the perp.
You do not know. I do not know.
To place blame on someone other that the perp is close-minded and ludicrous.
To also insinuate that anyone is employed by UVA to believe they are not to blame is rediculous.
Please come to terms that the only person responsible for her demise is the perp(s)
Thank you
What if her food or soda inside the arena was drugged. She could have been given the date rape drug by many people. The she returned to the area on a cold night with a head injury(as posted above) and was not treated medically and was refused reentry.
Regardless of whether or not this is Morgan, I hope there is ample evidence to solve what appears to be a horrible crime. If it is Morgan, the police/FBI shouldn't assume this killer is a Charlottesville resident. With so many people in town for the concert, plus smart phone access to Google Maps, it would not be difficult for a killer to quickly find a remote location (such as Anchorage Farm) to dispose of a body. It was disappointing to hear Morgan's parents declaring Charlottesville "not as safe as you think" at a recent press conference.
There is one Kodak V530 red digital camera for sale on ebay.com. I'm sure I'm not the only person to check this out. The date on the pictures of the camera is 1/27/10. This happens to be the day Morgan was found. While I know that several of those cameras would have been sold, I think it is unusual that in the description of this camera it says, "The small plastic lens cover does not fully close when powered off, causing half of the lens to be uncovered. There are minor scratches and cracks in the case, none of which affect the camera's functionality." Therefore, by process of elimination you might say how many cameras would be for sale on ebay that went through some type of impact, and is being sold. The person selling it is from New York. I don't know how many people would have traveled from New York to a Metallica concert in Virginia, but you never know. Also, the camera could have just been found, or it is more than likely not the same camera. Again, I just find it odd about the date, and the shape of this particular camera. Call me a arm chair detective if you will.
EH .......Donny my Canadian Brethren
Ah a Hippie from the land of expert growers ( snickers) who both love and take great pride in their sovereignty ! I will do my best to Ship Mark Emory back to the great white north as soon as the USA and George bush get over the sore AZZ they have over Mark . I wonder what ol George did with all that weed Mark mailed to the white house :) .
You my friend are very right ,I was alluding to the Pig Farmer and after I had done it, I was like ,I hope I made a friend and not an enemy after I hit POST .I forget sometimes people don't keep up with everything and just because I read about something doesn't mean everybody knows about it . Dakota ----------> wipes forehead and is thankful you are a well read hippy :) .
Canada is a beautiful place , I lovethe people ,I even try to be nice to the French Canadians he he he . I used to be part of a discussion board based in Vancouver , I was one of the only few that represented the USA as it was a Canadian forum . I miss that forum to this day as is shut down about 5 years ago .
Ok bro sorry for the ramble .
Back to Morgan , I wish I had more to tell you Donny , from what I have gathered until the recent unfortunate discovery of Morgan it is my understanding that law enforcement had nothing to go on and no POI . As of now the chatter I am hearing is until forensic are verified and available they still have no direction . Again this is unverified chatter and doers not sound promising even today as I had lunch with a few people close to cville as it is their belief that this will be long and drawn out as they feel the "wealth of information" reported may be so but still gives little to work with . It is the belief of concerned locals the "psychological game" has begun in desperation with some resent reports released by both LE and the family .Last ditch effort to shake somebody up and get a break if you will .
I hope from my soul this info is wrong but it's what I have heard .
That comment about pig farmers comes from the fact Canada is one of the world's top pork exporters and an old standing joke is there is a pig farm beside every marijuana grow operation in Canada . Given the dialogue here I was alluding to an infamous pig farmer whom did some grisly thing's...enough said . I am just happy Donny is a well read hippie .
Bomb expert and hippie ...... I respect both but I am with the hippie as the smarter choice lol .
I will say Canadians take their pig farms as serious as they do the marijuana growing . Canadian's are experts at both LOL .
Well I am off to Rotten Ronnie's :) I am trying to remember all my Canadian slang and hopefully Donny will be the only person that get's that .
And if it isn't 'Morgan', do we all still care? What if the victim - because there's a body alright, somebody's body! - doesn't have a family? Do we still pray? Inquiring minds would like to know.
The house in the back on chopin road has a Freekin RV BARN!!!
UVA could have saved her life had she been re-admitted to JPJ.
Really if she didn't get wobble and get in cars with strangers, though she had her own car in the parking lot it wouldn't have mattered if UVA let her in or not.
It indeed may not be Morgan, but it's somebody's daughter, mother or wife. The reason for the body preservation could be due to the fact that it's been very cold and underneath a substantial amount of snow for some time. Whether it's Morgan or not doesn't make it any less tragic.
Folks---this is sad!! But the time line has been so long that the footprints are gone-- evidence is cold--and there are no trails!! This is ashame and very sad!!! This does not make Cville unsafe--- it makes mankind ruthless!!! This family finally has closure and move on to a certain point!!! The best we can do at this point is over our prayers to the family!!!
I am alittle confused on something...I read somewhere that Morgan drove her own car to the concert with her friends-and her friends drove it back home when they could not find her.Is this correct information?
This whole thing is strange...I know people get to drinking and forget things like.. where they park-esp.in a venue like that.but do you forget you have a car all together and go wandering away from the parking lot and start hichhiking?And then to have your friends just leave you behind and drive YOUR car home..it does not make any sense to me..i am not implying anything with the friends here,but this story just does'nt add up for me..Something is very wrong here.
She could've waited for her friends who were still inside and the security guards would've found a place for her to wait.
But She didn't.
My guess... stuck outside of the arena she decided to go to an "after party" with some UVA students renting a place near the area where she was found. There was probably alcohol involved... and something happened (I don't know what) which resulted in her death. Then one of those students (or all of them) had something to do with it, or covering it up.
I've tracked down Aborigines involved in crimes in Australia when others didn't think about some common-sense clues. I grew up in the Shenandoah Valley so I know possible types of evidence that should be found. Here's what I would look for so that maybe someone has related clues that might take the next step to help police solve this crime.
1) Moon Phase Chart for Oct. 17, 2009: NEW MOON (i.e., Pitch Black). http://www.moonconnection.com/moon_phases_calendar.phtml
Conclusion: She was attempting to evade someone and was able to run for over a mile.
2) An attacker that had reason to fear being identified or real mean would have had a strong motivation to keep following - by listening for noises ... running sounds in dry leaves, tree branches snapping, wire fences creaking when being climbed. How many fences would have been crossed? Check them and the ground around them for dropped items.
Bottom line: It is a lot easier to follow in darkness than to escape. She likely was being pursued after escaping. The attacker likely got cuts getting over fences.
3) Check very carefully all boundary and internal fences - especially if barbed wire - along Hwy 29 in this area for threads from black clothing and likely other colors from an attacker. Climbing livestock fences also stretches the wire so look for pulled fence staples from wood posts and stretched top-strands from the weight of someone climbing over. One thing is certain: You can't get over a barbed wire fence in the dark without losing skin and tearing your clothes. It's a good chance they were getting tripped by undergrowth - you could not even see the best route. Three months in the winter would help preserve DNA evidence.
Finally, when lost it is common to walk in a big circle. There likely is evidence that can be found between Hwy 29 and the hay field. Start with the most direct route AFTER locating the cross-over point on fences. Back tracking is worthwhile too. Wouldn't be a bad idea to immediately set a bunch of Infra-red game cameras in this area now. Hunting season is over so a bunch of local hunters would likely loan their game cameras to the police to monitor 24/7.
it was an unusually big snow. Unfortunately, Kat, it has now all melted and the ground is all squishy, not frozen solid. . .
Yeah that's right Mo' Better blame the victim. You make absolutely no sense, and come across as a sociopath yourself. Grow gray matter?
You are just plain stupid.
Cassandra Morton found murdered near 29 in Lynchburg a few days after Morgan went missing. A lot of murder piling up from Showalter to the present. Is the 29 serial killer responsible for these killing as well?
Morton also found in a wooded area.
I agree with you Just A Thought:
I believe when she told her friends that "she would find a ride" she had already "found that ride". Possibly she was not willing to tell her friends who exactly this was because maybe she did not want them to know. I think the police have not released photos because they may know who the person is and are building evidence.
quote: "My younger brother is a bomb squad cop here in Canada..and I am a hippy..guess my family gave us both ends of the spectrum in genetics haha."
WTF? Why is a cop any better than a hippy?
quote: "I thought all Canadians were pig farmers .... "
Pigs in Canada? Really? Cold weather doesn't sound too healthy for bacon?
Hi ya Mr. Dakota...you just happen to be one of the posters here I enjoy reading comments from.My younger brother is a bomb squad cop here in Canada..and I am a hippy..guess my family gave us both ends of the spectrum in genetics haha.
Funny you should mention B.C. as he is leaving tomorrow morning to go to Vancouver to help with the winter Olympic games and we were just chatting about that and about how police officers here are trained in certain situations.I never knew that in Canada the police are trained to take 3 shots at a person who threatens them with a weapon..he said one to the head area and two to the chest..guess I better not start any trouble here haha ...but we are in Ontario closer to Toronto than the 3 days it takes to drive a truck to B.C.
Anyway I am off topic here but I do wonder if there is any more info about poor Miss Harrington and just what the police down there are maybe doing to find the jacka$$ or a$$es that would do such a thing??.We have had our share of freaks in Canada namely Paul Bernardo and Karla Holmolka and the pig farmer I think you may have been alluding to in B.C. Robert Picton...it saddens me that people can some times be so cruel to each other but then I see on a regular basis how some others go above and beyond to be good..it helps restore my faith in humanity...I hope that there will be justice soon not only for this young girl but for all the poor souls who have been taken from us by the dredges of society.
I think I will contribute here at the hook whenever I am able ..I enjoy the banter and I would like to be able to chime in my two cents whenever I can.
Your friend in the great white north
Kat - the small pond is not on the Anchorage property. My "guess" is they found the body in one of the small wooded areas either left or right of the barn to the SW. Mr. Bass mentioned that it's only accessible by a tractor so based on my recollection of the property, even though 30 years ago, must be the steep hillside behind the barn area leading down to the bottomland.
Lets Be Fair
Oh , absolutely I agree with your statement .
@ fingerscrossed: Seriously? I think this proves people do not look out for other people. Quoting my father: "nobody is watching out for you but YOU".
Very sad ,my thoughts are with her family .A early post mentioned another woman being found dead also ,has anyone heard anything about the couple of Virginia Tech college students that were found shot to death in park late last year?Do we have a serial killer ?
If you look on google maps at rt 708 where the stream crosses, theres a pull off and parking area that looks to been hidden from any houses. there a stand of cedars not a hundred yards from the road. I think they hid her there. that would mean anybody
Some ome would have seen if there was a party.
they will get who ever did this.
"Red Hill Local" makes a good point that bears fleshing out: Perhaps she went off with someone, OD'd on alcohol or other drugs, and then her companion(s) panicked and ditched the body. Once the media frenzy hit, they'd be way too scared of going public.
If you have seen the satellite from the Anchorage Farm, There is a small pond with a creek or stream running through to a certain point. You would not have to get on the Anchorage Farm drive way to put a body in the pond. Then with rain and melting snow, the body could have drifted.
Since it's not common knowledge, I don't think Estella's 4 pm post should be left on this site. Doesn't anyone understand this is an ongoing investigation and information leaked by anyone other than authorities is irresponsible!
@ M - supposing there WAS a party at the house, it is not an impossibility that she was impaired (already confirmed) left the house, wandered somewhere, passed out and was simply not missed by other party goers. Esp. if she was not necessarily a "regular"...The ME report will shed more light. . .
of course, this is assuming she did, in fact, make it to the concert. Some have speculated that she did not. . .
The venue's policy did not kill that girl.
But if it comes out latter like that I called it. just sayin'.
With the 29 serial murderer and Showalter and other cases that could be linked indicate on possible serial killer...is it possible that this case is linked or is it possible that there is a 2nd serial killer out there?
I also encourage the poster above whose friend has a similar problem at another concert to notify police. What if someone who works concessions spikes a drink and then a second person abducts them? Could her drink have been spiked by the RV's?
It would be the suit if the century. I hope the Harringtons, after the passage of time, bring it with hammer and thongs.
Hey it makes more since to me then multiple serial killers and concessions spiking drinks bla bla bla
I hope they find the killer if there was one, they don't even know for sure if it is her.
This is a very sad ending to a story that touched many people. Most people are angry - and for good reason. Nobody deserves to have their life cut short in this manner. But to seek out blame against UVA, or JPJ, is wrong in my opinion. Every day, people have three choices. 1 - They can go about their life and do their own thing, causing no real harm or real benefit to those around them. 2 - They can choose to do good, or 3 - they can chose to do harm. Sadly, all indications with this case is that someone made a choice to do harm to Morgan Harrington and it cost her her life. Despite all the negativity reported in the news these days, most people do actually chose option 1 or 2 - which is good, but when someone decides to do harm to others, it is often senseless and results in anger and frustration to those who try to comprehend why. As much as we'd like to try to avoid it by enacting laws, policies, and beefing up the police force or security at an event - sh## like this is going to happen as long as free will exists. What we need to do is stop pointing fingers, remember those who tragically became victims of senseless acts, and work to become better people - by chosing to step up and commit acts of kindness to those around us.
I hope they don't sue the state becouse that is going to be yours and my tax dollars that pay for if they win.
Fair question. Simple enough. When Ms. Harrington stepped out and requested re-entry, she should have been asked for her ticket stub. If it were not readily available , her friends should have been called by her, or RMC, and brought the previously mentioned stub down for analysis. Security did see her leave,(or should have) so there should be no question that she was already inside If the seats matched, she should have been reunited with them. Simple enough. Further, If she had a head wound or was noticably imapired , she should have been brought to a first aid station for treatment, treated, and again reunited with her friends, or evaluated for further trauma, if necessary. However the cold hard facts remain that JPJ has a no re-entry policy. And that this young woman was arbitrarlily refused re-entry, which ultimately led to her abduction and apparent murder. This policy needs to be reviewed for these gray areas so that this NEVER happens again to anyone's child, yours included.
That was very well said !
My heart goes out to MH's family & friends. Coping with her loss is going to be very difficult.
The POI in the "Rt 29 Stalker" cases was in jail at the time of MH disappearance. On a parole violation.
LE will be contacting all the RSOs in the area including the 20yo RSO who lives very close to this 700 acre farm.
LE will learn the names of the past renters of the farm house, and we will hear more about these folks in the near future. Yet, it still isn't clear to me which house was actually the rental. And, which house was the rental at the time of her disappearance?
And, don't some killers attempt to involve themselves in the investigation? LE will be questioning the young man who created a website in MH honor. He was at the concert, and claims to have seen MH at the concert.
I've read other posts on other websites from locals that state that they themselves knew this area to be a party spot 30 yrs ago. A middle aged local person, who partied in the area, and grew up there would know this farm area well also.
There is information that LE is not making available to the public, and for valid reasons.
We do not know if there was a party on the farm the night MH disappeared, however I cannot imagine other party goers keeping silent, if they had seen MH at a party.
These are only some thoughts that I haven't seen posted here yet.
To GSOE
"if I am injured, bleeding, and obviously in need of some type of sympathy or assistance"Š. and some pot belly wannabe cop security guard with an IQ of 56 turns me away, yes, I would sue Mr/Mrs/Miss outraged. :) " Can we settle before you call the tough, smart lawyer? :) or even Robert Vaughn. I hereby proclaim that GSOE has unconditional re-entry priviledges from this day forward whenver I open my own venue. And I promise to hire only masculine, trim, professional Cops with an iq of at least 140 to deal with GSOE.
Cat - there is a dangerous person loose in Charlottesville.
Okay, LE is treating this as a homicide, but I have not seen any reports that there is definitely a psychopath in our midst....but we should consider that fact and watch our own safety measures accordingly...of course I will more than happily be corrected if someone has an article etc., not just their own speculation or deduction of timelines, past occurances, etc, to show me.......the COD has yet to be determined and being that it has been months, I doubt LE will release that information anytime soon.
There are 'dangerous' persons everywhere, please don't think that C'ville is some sort of bubble...back in someone else's post they said "you should be able to walk alone through a University town"......this is me wishing for those days......
Oh, and GSOE....keep on posting! I really believe you post things most people are afraid to say!
quote: "GSOE: your 2 years is not up. im sure you wont forget about it before that tolls."
OK, if you wanna debate the issue, I'm game.
If I were to decide to sue, I would also include the Albemarle County Police Department in said lawsuit. They caused the accident, plain and simple. A county cop was sitting on the side of the road with his blue lights going. He has finished what he was doing, everybody had left the scene. So the cop should have cut his lights off and moved on so as to prevent a traffic hazard. They of all people know that motorists "rubber neck" and cause traffic hazards and further accidents while doing so.
But no, he sat there doing paperwork, making notes or whatever. The lady in front of me slowed to 5 mph looking around to see what was going on. As I mentioned above, it's called "rubber necking". I obviously had to slow down to 5 mph too. The young kid behind me did not see what was going on and ran into me doing 40 mph. He had no idea the stupid lady in front of me was going to slow down to 5 mph in a 35 mph zone while admiring the pretty blue police lights.
You people don't like it when I discuss this type of stuff, but you egg me on with your provocative, antagonistic and sarcastic remarks. :)
No one has mentioned it but the reality may be that this was an act performed by those we once easily characterized as possessed. Possessed by Satan. Anti-christian.
Self righteously, we may think ourselves above and beyond base human nature, but remain haunted that we are part of what made this possible. A blase, here today, gone tomorrow, reel politik covered over by southern charm and polit-ease bathed in Bourbon oligo oil.
The best here think themselves so, no real work or genuine service is needed. The labor and even suffering is done by others. And here we simply enjoy. Or rather think it so. We are good.
The sacrifice in play here is that a young woman, not unlike many, if not the majority, sought escape in a rock concert amidst relative or even intended anonymity. The near universal belief that this must be, is in fact, acceptable is the problem - a problem of a culture of utter despair. One that does not want beauty let alon truth. Deep pessimism is what makes our young seek such empty escape. The absence of the sacred is the cause, but woe is me, for I deign to authoritatively reckon and call to account. There is very little sacred experience in Mr. Jefferson's hyper-suburban Virginia although there is a lot of lotus-eating pretense.
sad, hopefully there are clues that are found which help to further define the pool of suspects.
i doubt the house fire nearby is related; it would just be too improbable after 3 months of almost no clues, to have this case broken in one day with two huge events.
Red Hill Local--sounds like a good theory. Let's hope they start questioning whoever loved there at the time soon.
Estella--thank you for the update. My heart goes out to her family. So, so sad.
LIVED there, not loved
quote: "Gasbag,
This not being a forum, I'm not really off-topic:
Would you care to comment on the supposed motive of the McGowan murder, and the absence in the press of any signs of investigation into possible explanations for a ââ?¬Å?hit?""
I'm not sure I understand your question.
A professional hit? As in "killer for hire"?
I think it was just another senseless and random home invasion and robbery in Charlottesville. Except in this particular case it escalated into a murder for whatever unknown reason.
Charlottesville is no longer a safe place to live. And the cowardly thugs are targeting young females.
CVILLfied ,
This is just my opinion but I believe Dan Harrington was desperate to keep Morgan's name alive with the public when he made statement about Cvill's safety . I also believe you or I would grab at every straw possible in desperation to do the same thing if it were our child . Again my opinion but Dr. Harrington is an intelligent and kind man and he knew the press was slowing with Morgan and he was desperate as any of us would be .
Just my opinion
"UVA could have saved her life had she been re-admitted to JPJ."
Amen! Big Dog. Now let's fight to change the policy. Let's prove that Charlotteville is one of the best places to live, instead of going along with others. RMC/JPJ are culpable as Dakota said. The time for real change at JPJ is now!
@ another random: so, was she the only one that night that got denied re-entry? if not, where are the other bodies?
UVA's conduct in this case is outrageous in its neglect.
They won't "Officially" say who it is but Morgan Harrington is not listed as missing on the VSP Website.
I do not think she walked/wondered there by herself, in boots in 40 degree weather. If so, there would have been more sightings of her.
I once walked a drunken 11 miles and it took me almost 5 hours. True story!
Wow. So many comments.
What a tragic ending to the disappearance of Morgan Harrington. I am sure her family knew this day was coming. Today the hope of their daughter coming home was lost. How could a simple attendance to a concert that thousands attended have ended this way? Why Morgan? Why this concert? Why? Why? Why? I cannot imagine what her family is going through or the questions that have that may never be answered.
With all the rain and snow we have had, I pray there is evidence still surrounding the body that can be used to find out who killed this young woman.
I have a few questions and boy oh boy am I going to get comments on this one! Good and bad.
If Morgan's purse was found outside JPJ, why would she have left it and then hitch-hiked? I can't help but think the police are taking someones word that Harrington was last seen at the Copley Bridge. I think she was taken or willing got into a vehicle at JPJ.
Is the house fire that occurred this morning less than 5 miles from where Harringtons body found have any connection with Harrington? Did the guys living at the house attend the Metallica concert? Did any of the UVA players that later said they saw Harrington live in that house?
Was the killer(s) members of our own community? Did they know where the farm was and how to hide her body so it wouldn't be found? I cannot imagine someone from out of town or out of state found such a remote area in the middle of the night. Was her body there the entire time she was missing or did someone leave the body there more recently?
Why did Harringtons friends not got outside the concert to check on her? I am NOT blaming them. I just find it odd that her friends were more consumed with the music than with their dear friend.
Doesn't JPJ of any of the surrounding buildings have security cameras? If so, it is high time to get some!!! Security cameras are at Walmart, but not here???
My prayers are with the Harrington Family tonight as they are grieving another stage of their daughters disappearance. The reality of their child being murdered is something I cannot even comprehend. My heart hurts for them. Not only do they have to say goodbye to their daughter, but they have to say goodbye to all the dreams they had for her.
God Bless the Harrington Family!!!!
I've followed these forums since October and really I'm impressed with most the people who post in general, esp given the nature of other boards, but insofar as anyone can discern anything about someone from a bbs, I find you, GSOE, to be a particularly admirable man. It follows you were in LE. I wish they were all like you.
Outraged- similar, from a more limited familiarity. Estranged Father, I agree- I strongly believe in feminism, but until the U.S., more/less the world, has lessened the age old epidemic of sexual crime, women are not going to be on the same power footing as men. My feminist friends scowl at my chivalry, but they respect me for it too. I would imagine, btw, that your daughters will respect it greatly in you even if they go through a teen phase where they have a hard time with it. And I hope that even if your ex-wife is abusing and undermining you, you still make sure you never speak about her in disrespect (in front of your daughters). My best to you.
And though I believe in the importance of law, the inevitability of some form of cosmic justice, and even trying to understand people who do terrible things- I still hope the person or persons who did this to Morgan are made to suffer terribly for it. (I am assuming murder, but I do hope it was not- for her, for her family, and for all of us).
Lastly everyone yes, do something positive. Let's be proactive. Donate- and volunteer. Just... serve somewhere somehow in any capacity that you can. The world won't get better if we don't actively engage it- and the struggle will always be against the stream, so it takes many.
@italianreader: why would they let her? because they would have done EXACTLY the same thing THEMSELVES. Not saying it was right. I am completely on the other end of the spectrum on that.
chouva, I agree with you...good points. Unfortunately Morgan walked away from the safety of JPJ, with all of it's lights and security. This is still the big question for me. I know she didn't just go out for a smoke or to pee, and she's been to enough concerts to know the rules about leaving, with or without a ticket stub. UVa is not to blame. We don't have many answers at this point, but hopefully someone will be arrested soon.
Here are two speculation I'm sure I will get blasted for, but none the less, possibilities: 1)If Morgan did hitchhike I suppose she wanted to go home to Virginia Tech. The person who picked her up would have pretended he was driving in that direction. In her possible altered state Morgan would not have realized this person was driving in the wrong direction. Possibly she figured it out. Possibly she tried to escape near the location she was found and she tried to run for her life. This could be another reason she ended up in the middle of nowhere. 2) She did get in touch with the friends she new, or thought she had met some people she could party with and hang out with until she could connect with her friends after the concert. (This theory stems from the person who thought she saw Morgan with a group of guys outside of an apartment complex) Ever heard of shrooms? This is something done in cow pastures where these shrooms grow. They are eaten or mixed in drinks and drank for the purpose of hallucinating. Morgan could have gone along with it, but then something terrible happened during that time. I know the second one is a bit of a stretch, but at this point, so much is possible. Either way, considering you cannot drive to this location, Morgan probably walked in (forced more than likely), and there should be something out there along the way evidence.
One more thing, look for Morgan's red camera at JPJ. They do not allow cameras during events. They may have taken it from her.
Such a sad ending to an otherwise strange case. For all of those who say it is the fault of the JPJ, who fault is it that a 20 year old underage girl was drunk at a concert? Certainly not the JPJ's fault. I attended the concert and unless she had a fake id or someone else supplied her with alcohol she had to get the booze probably for arriving in Charlottesville. The JPJ did a fine job of controlling who could buy alcohol and how much. For her father to blame the "Complacency in Charlottesville" is wrong and unfair. He had mentioned before his daughter was a good girl and would not put herself in positions where she could get into trouble. Well unless you were not a college student living away from home once, don't be stupid to believe underage drinking does not happen on college campuses.
I want to know what her friends were thinking for leaving her outside to find her own ride back to Harrisonburg? Even a group of drunk college kids should know better than to allow her to run off by herself. Although maybe she was known to do that in Blacksburg when they went out drinking or to parties. The police need to take a closer look at the friends and anybody who worked or lived on or near the farm. For her body to be found in such a remote area seems someone had to have a working knowledge of the area.
I think the answer is right under our noses. There is so much talk about the arena's policy being to blame. I don't think it is the policy that is to blame, but it could be someone at the arena who is to blame. An employee who has a connection somehow to that farm land. Yes, people saw Morgan in various places outside the arena, but no struggles seem to have taken place once she started walking away from JPJ. All of Morgan's struggles that we know of seemed to have taken place inside JPJ and in the parking lot at JPJ. From everything I've read. She went to the restroom. Could someone have attacked her there or in another area as she was walking to the restroom? She was reported to have blood on her head. She had an altercation with a security guard. She was in a frenzy to get back in, and according to the guy she linked arms with she was visibly upset. Suppose you were raped ladies...how would you react? In shock? Not able to think clearly? Does anyone get what I'm saying? All of her struggles took place at JPJ. Surely police are looking over the employees at JPJ and checking out where they live. Oh, and wait, don't forget how an arena this large with all of its policies does not have any video footage of her whatsoever?!
why was the purse and cell left in the RV lot, a plan choice for the body, but did noy take idems from the location. the perfect crime. gets in a car know one see, drives somewere, dos what he dose, dump the body and nothing left after, but the body. it will be hard tp prove guilt with so little
You people can argue this liability issue all day long if you want to to. The bottom line is there is nothing that prevents the Harringtons from filing a civil lawsuit against JPJ for contributory negliglence (and other causes) in Morgan's death. And a jury awarding them $5 million compensatory and punitive damages is a drop in the bucket for JPJ.
Would the lawsuit even make it as far as a jury? I don't know, I am not an attorney. But I can say this (yes, here we go again, blah blah blah)... after numerous law enforcement agencies attempting to have the many lawsuits I filed against them for the last decade dismissed by using every trick in the book known to the legal profession, NOT ONE lawsuit ever filed failed to make it as far as a jury trial!
this is very sad, and if there is a killer, lets hope he is caught and pays dearly. but i think there is enough evidence to say the friends were clearly partying and distracted, morgan's behavior was odd in and out of arena, and she made so many choices that turned out to be wrong. if i was her parent, i would really be concerned with the behavior of her friends and my own child. it seems they got there and lost all focus of staying together a caring for each other, for girls who have known each other since they were 10 yrs old
Remember the 29 killer/Showalter and abductions still has not been brought to justice. Is this case linked? Is there a 2nd serial murdered on the loose as well?
JC - It was a SCRATCH. She wouldn't have been cold if she had stayed inside. I'm just saying they need to find out the real reason she left the arena before the band she was so excited to see even played.
What if she was drugged inside by a vendor in soda...what if she fell and hit her head in bathroom and had a subdural head injury. The was bungled and botched by UVA from the start. UVA needs to offer an apology, make significant changes at JPJ and set up a memorial somewhere. UVA did not put one penny into the reward fund. UVA needs to take a hard look at how they handled this from the start to the present.
Oh think of the spectacle, one pot belly wannabe cop suing another! Seems like some sort of bizarre twist on sumo wrestling.
Thank you Big Dog! It's reassuring to know that there are still people with the courage of their convictions, such as yourself. I too am alarmed by the rates of crimes against women. Especially those that go unreported, or worse, not prosecuted. I think that your posts here have been thoughtful, respectful and right on. If things don't change, than they stay the same. I hope that JPJ.RMC will examine their policies particularly the re-entry policy.As I said before, without public outcry they have no incentive to change. Because the policy is all about protecting the money, not the patrons.
I am old enough to have daughters Morgan's age. When Morgan was abducted in October I said, "there but for the grace of God go I." I have identified with the trauma of Morgan's parents throughout this ordeal. As the father of daughters, I am also frightened by the increasing number of violent crimes against women at colleges and universities, and that the victims of such violence are frequently put on trial themselves.
JC, why does UVA need to take a hard look at anything when there's so many Hook commenters willing to do it for them. Send them your thoughts and a bill for a consultation fee for you and big dog. That'll work. I'm sure they'll appreciate it.
Arpal do you get a paycheck from UVA? Are you a UVA apologist?
IS that guy in jail that the feds and Ashcroft almost prosecuted for the Showalter/29 killings?
GSOE, in response to looking out for young women...
It is true that it's a touchy situation, esp. in conditions that will make them the most vulnerable. But there are ways to do it- the easiest is assess the situation and call the cops. Yes, cops should be given rides home to young women in potentially bad situations. If the cops don't want to check it out, call a different cop, or phone 911 if no one wants to listen to you. It doesn't really matter if it turns out to be a non-issue- it's about prevention. Or phone the police and tell them you're about to pull over to check on a girl's status- this will protect you from false accusations- then, being as unthreatening as possible (keeping your distance, etc) offer the ride, tell the girl to call the police and let them know she is getting in the car with you and have her report your license plate # and car description. If she doesn't have a cell, offer to let her use yours- again, keeping your distance. Yes, it's a bother and embarrassing and uncomfortable but we really have a responsibility to one another to do the most we can. I already know from your past posts that you agree. And it's good that this might be difficult- it should be immensely difficult. A girl who trusts you in such a situation is a girl who is significantly more vulnerable to a victimizer.
Does anyone think its strange that another woman, Cassandra Morton, was also reported missing a few days apart in neighboring lynchburg?
Evidently Charlottesville is not as safe as people would like it to be. Even if the body is not hers, it is still a body found on the side of the road. Someone lunatic is out there lurking in the shadows.
maybe the victims of the 29 stalking should sue vdot for not having armed guards escorting every car down the road.
I hope the criminals that did this die a slow painful death.
To wigwamspunkydog after 3 misspellings of your screen name I finally copied and pasted. That a great moniker and even a more brilliant idea. A re-entry fee would protect the gate, and maybe even save a life. Of course Ticketbaster would probably make it ridiculously high but that's their way, isn't it?. As far as falling off balconies, let us pray that doesn't happen.
To Let's Be Fair, My favorite troll. I think that GSOE is really only interested in suing corrupt police, who attempted to ruin his life . Try to keep up.
There is never closure..
I stand corrected...Morgan's brother lives in NY now but he just moved there after graduating from UVA..Calling him was still an option because he had contacts who would have assisted in picking Morgan up... When Morgan first disappeared the family stated they didn't understand why Morgan didn't call her brother. They would not have said that if the fact he lives in NY had any bearing.
quote: "outraged: build your own arena and you can do whatever you please. We'll see how long is takes you to adopt the very same policies. Prob. right after Gasbag sues your a$$."
If I am injured, bleeding, and obviously in need of some type of sympathy or assistance.... and some pot belly wannabe cop security guard with an IQ of 56 turns me away, yes, I would sue Mr/Mrs/Miss outraged. :)
quote: " Make no mistake.. this perp or perps will be caught."
I sure hope you are right.
But many of us have still been waiting for an arrest int he very similar Alicia Showalter Reynolds murder case.
If the case is solved, I think it will be because more than one person was involved, and one of the suspects turns himself in and turns state's evidence against his accomplices.
CJ.. Good Point and maybe the answers will be known when the investigation is over and maybe we may ever know. The removal of the battery speaks volumes ,however the recovery of the phone may hold the answers . Time will tell. LE is wise to hold everything close to the vest.
quote: "To Let's Be Fair, My favorite troll. I think that GSOE is really only interested in suing corrupt police, who attempted to ruin his life . Try to keep up."
This is correct. A young kid rear ended me on Rio Road doing 40 mph recently. It hurt like hello, and it demolished my car. If I was indeed sue happy, I would rolled out onto the pavement and not moved a muscle until the rescue squad got there.
There WERE fights that night in the arena. I thought that was unusual but a friend tells me no there are fights all the time at UVA events. And think of how crazy Foxfield got.
As the father of two girls I will tell you that women who raise their daughters not to respect their fathers are making a huge mistake. Children need a decent father figure in their life and just because I could not get along with my ex wife (not that she is crazy or anything) does not mean I cannot teach my daughters to look out for themselves.
By undermining me she is actually hurting our daughters. She is teaching them that they do not need men for protection and can take care of themselves. Independence is one thing, reality is another.
Teach your daughters to have strong male friends and to utilize them for protection. Revive chivalry. Teach your sons to look out for women even when the women say they are fine to walk the streets alone.
Women need to be respected for their minds, but it needs to be acknowledged that men have a place in this dangerous world. We need to have men out there willing to step up and keep the bad men from doing bad things.
I worry about my daughters.
"I hate to put probabilities on it, but it's more likely that someone would get hurt in drunk fights at JPJ than you are to get kidnapped outside." Are you sure about that? Because, in my estimation of ambiguous probabilities, one lost child is one too many, as opposed to a fistfight, or a bong hit, or smuggled skittles, or vodka, or protecting one's concession sales. It's not like it's a protective vacuum inside the arena.
Just for the record, the cause of death has yet to be determined. I agree with the State Police to treat this as a homicide...but before we go bouncing off the walls that a "lunatic" is out there...let's find out the COD first...which in the this case could be weeks before they can determine it for sure. HOWEVER! and I say this in caps shouting...everyone should use caution and good sense about their personal safety....
Prayers out to the Harrington family...I can't even imagine what you are going thru.
Some statments on here are completetly off the wall.
1. Not a shroom expert, however I think you pick them in the spring. Also you dry them out before consumming them. I know this because of picking the legal forms of mushrooms (Morel). This idea that they went out to pick shrooms is so far in left field. Leave that alone and more onto some other theory.
2. For everyone that is blaming JPJ, please everyone have a reality check. If you attend any basketball, football, soccer, hockey, tennis, golf, concert, circus, nascar, ect, they have a NO Readmittance Policy. It is a policy that was put in place for a reason, (i.e. stopping alcohol consumpution, drug use, mob control, and simply controlling the crowd in the venue and not those coming and going). Yes, in this one terrible incident it may have stopped her from dying. However, speculate how many deaths could have been stopped due to having this policy in place (i.e. Overdose, Drunk Driving, Fights, Ect.) It may have been You or Your Loved One That Was Saved for this very policy being put into place.
3. For the record I don't work for UVA either.
Witnesses outside JPJ testified she attempted to regain entry to the arena.
It is being reported this morning in national media that she attempted to regain entry.
But BD does bring up another possible motive. Possibly a vendetta against UVA and/or JPJ policies and procedures. I know that sounds outlandish but I have heard of many stranger motives.
@Big Dog
That is not proof- solid evidence (video).
Can I ask why YOU are attacking JPJ/UVA for this crime?
What do YOU have against them?
You are trying very hard to convince everyone that they are to blame.
Whats YOUR motive?
This is now considered a homicide. Some PERSON (not an arena) killed her.
Get outside of your box, take your blinders off and realize there is someone out there that murdered her. Do YOU understand?
I'll be curious to see what the coroner finds as cause of death. We may not even be dealing with a murder here. One possible scenario is that someone picked her up under the guise of giving her a ride home. Instead they took her out into the county to maybe "get some". Either she rebuked their advances and got out of the car or possibly escaped from a dangerous situation. Then, being alone in the middle of nowhere decided to head across the cow pasture towards whatever lights she may have seen (e.g. the farmhouse). If she was drunk, drugged and/or injured, maybe she just didn't make it to the house and died of exposure in the field after passing out. Based on the farmer's statement that the area she was found in was inaccessible by car, it stands to reason she got there on foot, possibly under her own power. Surely the forensic investigation will say for sure how she died, but at this point to assume murder is a bit premature.
I should add, however, that the tone of the statements made at the presser yesterday leads me to believe there is evidence of foul-play that the police just can't release, making my theory significantly less likely.
Big Dog - Every major concert venue I've been to requires a ticket to get in. Every major concert venue I've been to has a similar no reentry policy. While the events happened in the order they happened, there is no causal link between the JPJ's policy and Morgan's death - there was what's called a superseding intervening force. An example: if you go to the Teeter and they're out of milk, so you drive to Kroger and get hit by a truck on the way there, you can't sue the Teeter for being out of milk. If Morgan had been denied reentry and froze to death standing outside the doors, then your causation argument makes sense. But she didn't - she ended up in a hayfield because of the acts of unknown persons, and those are the people responsible for her death.
I realize you're looking for a big faceless organization to blame, but you should focus your frustration into helping in any way you can to find the killer.
im not talking about the owners, im talking about people just driving up there and pulling off on the side of the road or maybe onto the property unnoticed trespassing to drink in private, etc. what have you. I used to live in the country and have picked up many a beer can on our dirt road after the weekend. . .just wondering. . . .
I hope the best for the Harrington family. That who evr did this awfull crime pay for their sin.
Hey hey I think you are acting way out of line
People need an end to this. I hope it ends well.
Travel Lite - I'm sure there are some respectable people in the North Garden area, but there are at least 2 rapists, according to a sex predator listing website, living about a mile or so from the Anchorage Farm. There is one more living on Lynchburg Road or Street. Every city or town has intolerables living amongst them.
I believe the cold weather and snow could very well have frozen the ground enough to hold footprints, etc in place. At least on higher ground where there would be no flooding. God may have sent all the snow you received for a purpose. It was an unusual snow, correct?
One of the big unknowns is why she left the arena in the first place. We may never know why she left the arena, but maybe she just did and decided to try and find a way home like her friends said she had told them, and this became a crime of opportunity. She was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Someone who she obviously trusted enough in some way offered her a ride home and she took it. Someone that had knowledge of the property where she was found. Someone who lived close by. Someone who was related to the man that found them? Who knows. Either way I think they knew that that grass and area probably wouldn't be checked for a long time. Long enough for DNA to hopefully be long gone from her body. The man himself said he went out there only because of a storm that had hit. The person(s) that did this assumed they had plenty of time before her body would be found. Or it was someone tht just didn't care if or when she was found because they were certain nothing could link them to her. Either way I hope the tree cameras that I read were on that property show something. Anything.
Just to add. I believe that her friends know exactly why she left that arena. Maybe to meet someone or do something that if they told would make themselves look bad to parents or others. 20 year olds don't think the same way as someone in their 30's or higher. I can't see them not knowing why she left otherwise what friends allow one of their good friends to walk home alone? I'm sure, knowing she wouldn't be allowed back in, they could have handed of her keys to someone at the door or something so that she could drive home. Something doesn't add up there.
Callaway --
I've also always pondered how she would have gotten back into her apartment, if she was going to "find a ride" and eventually return to there, without her house key?? I'm sure that key, too, was on the key chain with her car keys. My house key is on the same key chain with my car keys.
For all I know maybe the house key was in her purse but no mention has been made of this.
Trust me, her friends know way more than what has been shared with the public and I'm sure that's what LE prefers.
we'll see, SB
great ideas, reverse
All of this speculation is really rather astounding. Is magical thinking really this commonplace? A horrible thing has happened, but it's because an intoxicated girl who was somewhat out of her mind got picked up by an awful person who killed her. It's not the fault of the arena, U.Va., basketball players, the unfortunate farmer who found the body, etc. Geez. And where all of the supposed psychics and eyewitnesses who thought that she was in Orange, Boyd Tavern, Ivy, the Lawn, etc.?
Morgan volunteered for this group. These kids marched in a parade at christmas and handed out flyers. According to the website, this group helps kids who are affected by domestic violence. How about sending this group a check to benefit these kids who have already endured violence in their lives and will now have to face that once again:
Make your check payable to ââ?¬Å?Mental Health America of Roanoke Valley" and mail it Diane Kelly at:
Mental Health America of Roanoke Valley
Post Office Box 592
Roanoke, VA 24004
I challenge everyone writing here, whatever position you take, to take a break from the computer, get out your checkbook and pen and stroke a check.
are we talking a civil trial where monetary damages are awarded? if so, the juror deliberations and how they reach the amount of monetary award is up to them. Each jury can conduct itself as it deems appropriate. That is, assuming they find in favor of the plaintiff.
I assure you that this no re-entry policy will not be in force one year from now.
No way would a 20yr old girl walk 8+ plus miles at night in her boots from the concert-----think about it
I pray who ever it is that they will fine the person/s that did this... I also pray for Morgan and the Harrington Family. Plese God whole the family close. Help them through this really hard time in thire life...2.4.1. Morgan
At least the family will have closure. It won't ease the pain they feel in their hearts, but it is better than never knowing where their beautiful daughter is.
Reminds me of the Alicia Showalter Reynolds case from over a decade ago. I pray there is evidence to find out who is responsible for her death, but with all the recent rains the evidence is probably gone.
God Bless the family.
This is very sad news. Prayers being sent up for the surviving family. God bless.
"'Unfortunately, should it end up being Morgan, the location rules out her just wandering off and lends itself to foul play.'
Not necessarily. Google Maps says Anchorage Farms (at least the closest part to US-29) is about 8.6 miles from JPJ, by car. Assuming shortcuts on foot, you can figure it being just over 8 miles, which is walkable. It would take some time, but it's walkable.
Nothing can be ruled out by the location at this point. There would have to be other factors."
I've gone on some drunken wanderings in my day, but never anything close to 8 miles, and certainly not AWAY from civilization. I hope to God I'm wrong, but all signs point to criminal activity.
12:44 update would imply the perpetrator knew where to go in order not to be seen/found.
Even if it isn't Morgan Harrington, it is still someone's daughter, mother, sister or friend, my prayers go out to that family, no matter who it is!
Gasbag - you are correct. The Alicia Reynolds case is a very sad case for those of us who remember that time, especially given the number of similar stops of women on route 29 leading up to her murder. Very, very sad....
I had so hoped for a different outcome. My thoughts and prayers are with Dr. and Mrs. Harrington and their son. God bless them all.
Just a few months before this, my friend disappeared from the Dave Matthews concert in DC. She woke up on the side of a road later that night, with cuts and bruises. Her purse was found outside the concert venue. She has no memory of even leaving the concert. Thank God she's ok, but her experience, coupled with Morgan's disappearance, and one other concert disappearance I heard about this year in VA make me think someone is out there preying on women at concerts.
My thoughts are with the Morgans.
"Not necessarily. Google Maps says Anchorage Farms (at least the closest part to US-29) is about 8.6 miles from JPJ, by car. Assuming shortcuts on foot, you can figure it being just over 8 miles, which is walkable. It would take some time, but it's walkable."
And then she just wandered through a mile of back roads on the farm and through herself into the ditch.
I hope your friend has spoken to authorities about her experience. Might help prevent another such incident down the road
so very sad..my god be with her family..and if it isnt her may god be with there family as well..so sad
I am local and that area is rough terrain and after all the snow and all the rain the other night that caused flooding. is it possible the body washed up ?
this all adds up with it being her.. especially if they found skeletal remains..
Morgan Harrington disappeared 3 months ago. The article makes it sound like this body isn't as decomposed as one might be after three months.
really.. read the article above you
Agreed , Lets keep our hearts wrapped around the Harrington's . Be it Morgan or not it's has to be tragic new's to live through for that Family .
My heart goes out to the Harrington family...I hope justice is served...and god bless them!! My prayers are with them!!!
quote: "Boy this horrible. It reminds me of terrible situation back in the 90's with that woman grabbed on 29, and then found in the battle field. I have to wonder if this is the same creep grabbing someone."
Alicia Showalter Reynolds. Still an unsolved case as far as who did it.
IMHO, there's a serial killer on the loose.
now "partially skeletonized"
Lets not jump the gun here folks... lets wait to see if it is indeed her and go from there.. Let the Police do their jobs to identify her.. Pray for Morgans parents and brother, This is gonna be a really bad, bad ride for them, not that it hasnt been already.. Prayers said on this end..
Either in those thick fingers of trees in the front or on the backside of the damn down in the bottem on the other side of the spillway.
WHAT get's me about the JPJA "policy" is it is not followed and I and a friend are proof of it , I am sure their are many more people out there also that have left and returned . So why was Morgan and different ? . I would/will testify to the fact I have left JPJA and returned on two occasion's with not a single question ask ! I feel the reason we have never seen any footage of that evening is because JPJA started the butt covering before any concern for Morgan was taken . I hope I am wrong .
Hearing Dr Harrington's word's today is painful . I don't know how parents would ever recover from this . How does a community recover from this ?
@ outraged: "Something must be learned here to make our children safer when they shell out mega-dollars to see a mega show."
I agree. That SOMETHING is PERSONAL RESPONSIBILTY.
@ Another Random Expert
"Also, claims were made that help could have been found if she seriously sought it. Security station, first aid station, etc. Some are still wondering if she hadn't already decided to go off somewhere."
Where are these amenities outside the venue? There are none! If that were available and she or anyone refused, I would lighten my plea. I think that's a step in the right direction. This is exactly what we need without too much more expense. As for collateral damage of economic efficiency, I admit I'm no economic expert, I'm just a concerned parent with plenty enough worries,then to not be sure if my child will make it home after a night at the arena. My prayers and best wishes are with the Harrington's on this night of great sorrow.
Lets Be Fair .
Now that is unfair . If a predator wants you sometime no amount of personal responsibility will help !
We are NOT bullet proof , we do not have eyes in the back of our head's and anybody could fall victim to a predator . How much responsability do we place on a 5 year old that is ripped away by a predator ?
Think about that ,
Had Morgan been granted re-entry to JPJ she would not have been abducted. UVA must face its failure in this case.
Also what about UVA not donating one penny to the Harrington reward fund. This has been a PR bungle for UVA.
ted, you seem to have missed the news when another female body was earlier found near the arena, obviously not morgan's body.
now i feel a bit disturbed at not having seen any follow-up news as to whose body that was.
You're missing the point, Fred. Suppose the farm owner for some reason didn't mention this person to law enforcement. Why would YOU speculate in the local press about it?
I agree that farm has plenty of access and plenty of creeks and landmarks it's also hidden kinda down in a hole
I can't believe that this girl has laid out in this open field for so long. that really suprises me
@Dakota: we are not talking about pre-schoolers here. We are talking about 18-20 YEAR OLDS. You know EXACTLY what I am alluding to here. Don't play stupid. Morgan did not DESERVE this. No one does. But you cant play in the street and then say you didn't know there was a possibility you might get hit by a car.
UVA is culpable.
A disoriented Morgan sought to regain entry to JPJ where she could have found the type of emergency medical care routinely administered to incapacitated and inebriated students at Scott Stadium. This she was denied.
Complacent UVA must be forced to accept responsibility.
Boy this horrible. It reminds me of terrible situation back in the 90's with that woman grabbed on 29, and then found in the battle field. I have to wonder if this is the same creep grabbing someone. No we don't know if it's Morgan yet, and for her sake, I hope it is not.
"Unfortunately, should it end up being Morgan, the location rules out her just wandering off and lends itself to foul play."
Not necessarily. Google Maps says Anchorage Farms (at least the closest part to US-29) is about 8.6 miles from JPJ, by car. Assuming shortcuts on foot, you can figure it being just over 8 miles, which is walkable. It would take some time, but it's walkable.
Nothing can be ruled out by the location at this point. There would have to be other factors.
Dakota- agreed.
Red Hill Local- look at Google Maps satellite image of the area, available on all smart phones. No prior knowledge of the area needed to see it's remote. Plus, it's a stone's throw from 29 and a couple miles to 64.
you guys are nuts to say that this body isn't hers.
Bodies don't just randomly show up..especially ones that have blonde hair
i pray they find the bastard that did this...
It's for a jury to decide.
some other random expert said:
"Re-entry is a policy all across the country and should continue to be that way. It provides safety to those inside, especially if there were a fire."
This is absolute nonsense. If that was an issue, well then, what would happen if said hypothetical fire happened while 20,000 were in the venue and 10,000 more were still lined up and pouring in?
I have never heard of a fire-marshal prohibiting re-entry, or any venue claim it was prohibited by fire regulations.
There is occasionally a vague 'safety' issue in that it keeps drug-dealers from going back out to refill their 'prescriptions'.
The main and over-riding reason, though, as any bean-counter can tell you, is profit. It raises the profit-margins by reducing the amount of staff needed and lessening fraudulent entries.
Arpal said:
"The venue's policy did not kill that girl."
No, but it certainly didn't save her either.
Lets Be Fair
Most times I don't have to play stupid , it comes natural but I am sorry we have to disagree . It makes no difference if your 5 or 50 , the only person responsible for a horrific death such as Morgan's is the animal that harmed her . JPJA was just an accessory to the fact in my opinion .
Alison, did your friend report this to DC police/VSP? And did the victim of the other incident you mention report her/his experience?
It sounds like the same serial killer.
Hope that the local P.D. is up to this and will find the evidence needed to bring this case to a just end. Justice is needed to get the killer or killers locked up forever. Prayers for the family of this victim.........
May some sort of peace be with the family. And Morgan.
Would I happen to know you from another site under a slightly different name about MH ? If so I wish to tell you something important and I have been unable to find you :).
Family is on the way to identify the body
Interesting, she is listed on VSP's missing person's website, but incorrectly - she's under the juvenile section.
Also, Dan Harrington tells [another new source] he and his wife Gil are on their way to Albemarle County to identify the body found this morning and says it is likely their daughter Morgan, who went missing 101 days ago in Charlottesville.
This not being a forum, I'm not really off-topic:
Would you care to comment on the supposed motive of the McGowan murder, and the absence in the press of any signs of investigation into possible explanations for a "hit?"
Seems like you'd have an opinion I'd value.
Thank you.
Assuming it was Morgan, no way could she have taken "shortcuts" to arrive on this farm. There are no shortcuts down 29 other than mountains.
I'm familiar with farm from 30+ years ago as a kid. This wasn't a drive-by dumping as there's really only one way into the farm if in fact the body was found behind the house. Whoever placed the body there is familiar with the farm, either as someone that lived on the property, worked there, visited the old homeplace for parties, or possibly even hunted there. They had to know it was "safe" to go there in the dark without drawing attention.
The big house in the pic was the sight of many big parties so lots of people would have been familiar with the isolation of the area. It is such a sad situation but if it is Morgan, at least the family will have some closure.
to lets be fair. How about treating her with respect, or even treating her apparent head wound? How about making an attempt to reunite her with her friends? How about showing her a little dignity? How about one random act of kindness ? First Aid?
How about the simple act of caring about your customers? I know you think it's all about self responsibility and such. In the end it didn't work out so well for this child did it? What if it were your child LBF?
@ Travel: post a link please. its hard to tell what you're talking about without a visual. thx
I'm glad the Harrington family can begin to fully process things now and my family prays for theirs. I feel strongly, though, that UVA is certianly NOT culpable in any way here. First, JPJA is on UVA grounds but is not managed by the university but by SMG. RMC events staff and county and city police, along with uva police provide security inside and out.
The policies the JPJA has are for everyone's safety and they had no reason to allow Ms. Harrington back into the arena, especially if she was impaired! Her family can not and will not sue the University. And furthermore, the outrage at the fact that the university did not donate to her reward fund is just plain dumb. It is a state agency! State agencies barely have payroll funds much less are able to donate.
If folks focused all this sillines elsewhere, a lot of useless chatter would stop.
Rest in peace Morgan.
Lets Be Fair
I say let her back in like the many others that will testify to the fact you can get back in JPJA and maybe treated her for the injury from the fall she suffered inside the Arena and went from there . I also believe JPJA stated Morgan didn't have her ticket stub and was refused re entry . So which is it , NO RE ENTRY or MAYBE RE ENTRY ! .
I do say we focus on justice for Morgan on the criminal aspect . There will be plenty of time for the massive lawsuit .
At Scott Stadium, UVA fully acknowledges its liability. It has emergency medical personnel there on game days to administer to drunken students, and transports those at serious risk of death to the emergency room.
JPJ is no different. It is a UVA venue for entertainment where alcohol is served.
By not permitting Morgan re-entry to JPJ she was denied access to the medical staff inside who might have saved her.
CVIllified - just giving my opinion being familiar with the place. Yes, it's "remote" and right off 29,but you have to drive past a house to get to the location they appear to have found the body.
The house is rented, or was, by students and parties were held there frequently. I would think that someone being familiar with the place and knowing if they drove past the house in the pic towards the new house at the back of the property, no one in the first house would be concerned. If it's Morgan she may have been more likely to get in a car with a younger, safe-looking person of similar age...maybe a student that had partied there. Things went too far, he panicked and ended up at the most remote place he knew. Just a theory.
correction: that body was found at roanoke, va.
maybe there is a higher probability here. black clothing. they are bringing the parents in so there must be some positive indicators. mini-skirt, pantera t-shirt?
news conference scheduled for 5:30
I personally know someone who knows the family. She was positively identified, the parents had to identify her by the jewelry she was wearing when found (also, she was too poorly decomposed to identify other than by what she was wearing). That news just hasn't been released yet. My prayers are with the Harrington family during this time.
Did anyone else catch the update that Anchorage Farm's driveway is gated? I am not familiar with the property at all, but I'm assuming that to get to where the body was you'd have to get past this gate. So, that means either the gate was up that night, or the person knew how to get past it, or they carried her for some distance (seems unlikely). Or, she was still alive and he convinced her to walk for awhile with him, then did what he wanted to do and left her there. And there is also the theory that the body was somewhere else and was moved by floodwaters.
Anyone know if there was a party at the farm that night? I'm sure more details will come soon.
"Lets Be Fair" said:
"@Dakota: we are not talking about pre-schoolers here. We are talking about 18-20 YEAR OLDS. You know EXACTLY what I am alluding to here. Don't play stupid. Morgan did not DESERVE this. No one does. But you cant play in the street and then say you didn't know there was a possibility you might get hit by a car."
Oh really? How should we apply this principle to all the people who went driving down Hwy 29 on that snowy day? All the ones who got stranded and stuck in their cars? Many of them were older and more experienced in life than Morgan.
Should we have said to them "You can't play in the street on 29 and then say you didn't know there was a possibility you might freeze to death."? Why did UVA have to leave Morgan out in the cold to freeze to death?
That night, for those who don't remember, was as cold as "Let's Be Fair's" heart.
Theit freeckin garage is bigger then their house!!! whats in the garage!!!
@ outraged: "Most 20 somethings just have not been around long enough yet to worry about anything. That's left to the parents."
Are you SERIOUS? 20+ wow. . .
That aside, I'm interested to know: what do you think JPJ SHOULD have done with Morgan that night? Let her back in AND. . . .then what?
@ Arpal,"The venue's policy did not kill that girl."
You are certainly right here, but policy more than certainly contributed to it. That was, and is my main point. and to Let's be Fair: Personal responsibility is an aquired skill. When we are young it's a feeling of invincibility that comes with youth. I remember my days of unencumbered fearlessness. You probably do too. Most 20 somethings just have not been around long enough yet to worry about anything. That's left to the parents.
the venue for a trial would be Albemarle County. I think the people there would find differently. Ask the plaintiffs of lawsuits against UVA docs. . . .
I have only found one thing strange with the Bass guy's account's of finding the remains' . It may be he was seeing thing's from a distance but how many deer are wearing dark clothes and jewelry . it could be that I am not understanding how close he was but it seems if this area was only accessible by a 4x4 tractor and to see the remains it seems he would have seen dark clothing also .
Not in anyway knocking the guy as he also may be confused as I am sure I would have been a complete mess ! I am glad this man helped bring Morgan home . Actually he is the PERSON that brought her home to her family .
This is where it will get ugly !
The VSP newt's conference was shaky at best . I may have to change my opinion on Gil and Dr. Harrington thought's about c'ville ,I believe Gil is going to make some NOISE . Lt. Rader was shaky at best and not comfortable with something at ALL . I have said it from the beginning ....Some big entities have something to hide . Lt. Rader in my opinion was foolish with his statement not to put warnings out to the community ! He will regret those word's .
Gil's words from findmorgan.com
January 23, 2010
I am concerned about the complacency in Charlottesville. I am feeling a tendency to downplay Morgan's abduction, to protect the idyllic reputation of the city. I bought into that idyllic image until my daughter was stolen there. I understand the reluctance to be associated with this crime. I myself would prefer not to be known as the Mom of a missing girl. Charlottesville would prefer not to be recognized as the location of abduction. But there is no going back. These roles have been thrust upon us. I don't think it is correct to downplay Morgan's abduction to the community. To explain that this abduction occurred because Morgan made herself vulnerable ââ?¬â?? so not to worry ââ?¬â?? Vulnerable to what? To the PREDATOR who was there on October 17, 2009 and was still there in November. A bad event happened in Charlottesville ââ?¬â?? be known as the place where this act was NOT tolerated, not dismissed, be relentless, be clever, be resourceful, and find Morgan. Protect people rather than reputations, they are infinitely more precious.
Gil Harrington
Dakota: let's be fair. If there has been "spin" going on, it has not limited to VSP or UVA.
What a shame. I was really hoping that she had run off.
Still hard to believe that she would get in a car with somebody she didn't know.
Here's to hoping that they actually have some footage or description of the car that picked her up and some breakthrough can be made now that they have a location to go on.
Hope at least this is a signal to all the concert goers and festavarians to watch out for each other.
I am so deeply sad for this family. It is not meant for your child to go before you...especially in such a horrible manner. I pray for her friends and family in this difficult time and ask everyone to pray that they get the kind of closure they so desperately need. And if you don't pray then just think about them and keep them in your hearts.
I was hoping she would show up alive.
Re-entry is a policy all across the country and should continue to be that way. It provides safety to those inside, especially if there were a fire. JPJ has nothing to do with this and I am sick of seeing them being blamed for it. There are signs EVERYWHERE saying No Reentry, and the guys at the door say it over and over when you leave.
Bizarre how a house burned down in North Garden a little after the time they found the body in North Garden.
What house, JC?
AMom, if I know it, I think the cops do also.
Fred Mishnik, this is the wrong place for your speculation. It's a criminal investigation. Such ideas should be brought to the attention of authorities.
JC - Incorrect. The house burned down well before the farmer discovered the body.
it is so sad after 3 months that the missing student shows up diseas in a pail of hay.why did they take si long to find her it is so sad and the parents are upset now to find out that there daughter.godless the family
If it sounds like coincidence, a closer look may be in order and as my wife says. . . "There is no perfect crime" There are clues left behind... always. Just need harder closer looks.
You are correct with your statement . "Friend's" left Morgan behind for unknown reason's . They drove Morgan's car to and from .
Morgan told her friends not to worry about her, that she would find a way home. It doesn't seem like there is anything they could have done, as she was gone before the concert let out.
A R E, any of that statement of her leaving her own ride behind to take care of herself in a town she hardly knew sounds funny to anyone else?
quote: "The JPJ must shoulder some responsibility here for refusing re-entry to this young woman."
I would hate to be the John Paul Jones arena sitting in front of a jury if the family decides to sue. One silly little policy and a girl ends up deceased.
my prayers goes out to the family
Wow.....I was just reading about this case, on this site but from comments left
back in November.....go back and read the comment left by the psychic Stephanie
about the location where she felt the body was left......totally creepy
I have not followed the case, but I have read all of the comments and this post....
Why should the venue be held responsible? If she was denied access back in .. why didn't she hang out in the parking lot where her car was until the concert was over?
Like I said I do not know much about the case... just trying to understand and get some insight... Thanks...
Thoughts are with her Family
What made her leave and start walking?
ok outraged. Seems simple enough. And suppose the friends do not answer the phone (which someone stated here above) or the precious ticket cannot be located. Then what?
And who confirmed the head wound you keep referring to?
Her friends had the car keys and it was a cold evening and she didn't have a jacket and was wearing a skirt.
I am truely sorry for the family's loss. Everything I've read on this case points to a bright, loving, and special person Morgan was. My prayers will continue in hopes the parents can find some semblence of peace.
@outraged- I felt just as you did. This could be an example of the collateral damage of our highly efficient capitalist machinery. It would cost them significant amounts of money to have the additional security for readmission, and for systems to keep multiple people from coming in on one ticket, and those costs would have to be passed on.
Also, claims were made that help could have been found if she seriously sought it. Security station, first aid station, etc. Some are still wondering if she hadn't already decided to go off somewhere.
The only comfort I can find over this right now is almost morbid for a lack of better word's .
Not a damn soul can hurt Morgan anymore , she is at peace and for some reason I feel wrong feeling that way .
Chopin road is closer to the pasture than highway 29
There are two roads that might be even closer to where body was found than Anchorage Farm. If you look at Google Earth there is Chopin Road and also there in a farm/home just north of the Anchorage farm on 29. My concern is with the previous 29 abductions and murder this may be one more. It was also scary to read about the account listed above of a friend who has problems at Dave Matthew concert at the other end of 29.
The roads in Blandemar Estates are closer to the "far ends" of Anchorage Farm.
JPJ is NOT responsible for Morgan. Why didn't her "friends" leave and be with her outside if she told them she couldn't get back in? I still can't imagine leaving a friend stranded outside and I just kept on partying inside. Doesn't make sense to me?
I'm sorry for Morgan's family and I hope they find the person(s) who did this to her. There is so much more that we don't know about this case.
Usually, you can find some late tickets on sale or illegal ones selling them. I wonder why her friends did not chip in an send her the money to get another ticket through the fence or something. Her mother said she had looked forward to this so much. I think her friends are trying to protect her reputation and not reporting everything they know like I heard on Nancy Grace tonight she was drinking. Were drugs involved and they do not want to hurt her parents.
You are correct . Morgan was seen in RV lot at JPJA , pocketbook and cell phone sans battery in RV lot and now your info .
If you look at google maps in the back of Bass's farm in what he should consider the remote area on the other side of the fence their is huge barn big enough to hol four RV's and I also see a ring my best guess is for parties. zoom all the way in on chopin rd
Broken wood lines hay field down below.
also...as for JPJ arena being responsible for what happened to Harrington. She had her cell phone and spoke to her friends inside. If she had wanted to go back into the concert bad enough, her friends could have easily took her ticket to where Harrington was waiting. There are policies in place for many reasons everywhere. Concerts don't last very long. Someone that paid for a ticket and went to a special concert normally don't take a cigarette break. I find this very odd. Maybe she went outside for something else? But taking a cigarette break during a HUGE concert????
@outraged: i really think you are exaggerating some of the facts. The "head wound" you refer to was not apparent to bystanders, so why would JPJ employees have taken any note? Reuniting her with friends? Um, they spoke to her on the phone, right? They could have walked down to meet her if they wanted. What did JPJ do that showed her no dignity?
Lets be fair , and I do belive in being fair .
If the wound was not apparent how do we know it was there ?
I know what I'm lookin at and it ain't no horse barn,
Bass would have driven his tractor down the fence row behind his house to th "remote area" that has no other road leading to it
From the contours in the field the ring would have some seclution
@ outraged. Educate me. Spell it out. What should have been done? Step by step. I'm sincere. I really WANT to understand your logic.
I get the impression that this family is not the type to sue but if UVA doesn't apologize and change some policies and set up some type of memorial they should get the big guns and sue. Remember in civil suits it doesn't require all jurors to agree.
They must have sent an UVA lawyer to the Nacy Grace show . Some idiot on there was talking about Morgan and referenced maybe she was dropped from a plane or got there by horseback ??????
JC - not true. they have to agree on a number. . .
travel lite, you're a piece of work. You see a "ring for parties?" What are you-- Inspector Google? Stop playing around with Google maps and targeting the neighbors. Let the professionals do their jobs. I can assure you, they don't need you to launch an independent investigation at this time.
Lets be fair...doesn't it require 9 out of 12 votes. The last jury I sat on was civil in Richmond and I think it was 9 votes but maybe things have changed?
@ Dakota: ask outraged. She is the one that said there was a head wound. Not me.
If I was wasted at a Mettalica concert I'd deffinently be up for a bon fire party with some rich girl I just meet. Yeah baby pick me up at the bridge.
@ Travel. I'm on your page.
CLARIFICATION: my comment "@Travel I'm on your page" was referring to Travel's comment "She could have been parting there and didn't want her friends know, wondered down through the woods and coded in the field". Not any other one made after that.
Let me guess - wooded area near water???? Typical psychic response. Vague and can apply to the whole f'n county. God Bless us All
brandi - that is the million dollar question.
The freaking psychic nuts are back claiming victory. Sad.
To Damon, well spoken prose and greatly thought out, like Voltaire. However if we were speaking of a wealthy socialite at an opera,or ballet let's say,instead of a child at a rock concert would we so quick and light to write off the morals of the victim? It the subject matter the problem? As to the aspirations and mindset of the perpetrator. would they, could they be the same st a concert or church? It's easy to see without looking too far that not much is really sacred
lets be fair... Thanks I thought I had missed something. Do we know for a fact that she tried to get back in ? And she went out for a smoke break? Was she intoxicated before entering the first time? Sorry about all the question...
Brandi: im sure i'll be corrected on some of these facts but short story is this: girl + 3 friends have tickets to Metallica concert for 6 mo., drive from JMU to Charlottesville to attend. During the concert Morgan apparently leaves the concert area for some unknown reason (stories include going to the bathroom or taking a smoke). She winds up outside the arena, again for an unknown reason. I believe it was confirmed she did try several entrances to get back in. She talkes to friends via phone (not sure if actual call or text or who called who) and states she cannot re-enter but will try to get a ride back home. Is sighted apparently in several locations, the last of which is on a bridge alone. Next morning, her purse and cell phone minus the battery are found in a UVA lot. And Yes to your next question.
From The Hook 11/15/2009
"Among the several witnesses who reported seeing Morgan injured both inside and outside the Arena, one Metallica fan inside says she seemed ââ?¬Å?upset" with blood on her chin but declined his offer to help."
The chin is on the head
Outraged et alia: No one, let alone me, wants to denigrate the victim. In fact, I think we all suffer under a cultural pessimism that we, or rather most can no longer even recognize. Absent malaise, and engaged in a mission-oriented life committed to posterity and all forms of life on this would be good blue green earth, we would not seek or rather set up and even salute those who pay for vacuous coliseum hivemind entertainments in which individual free will and responsibility is forgotten. And in the forgetting, thinking or rather feeling free [while actually all the more enchained].
Another random expert:
Summer time party girl? Just because you attend a concert does not make me a "party girl". For someone that doesn't have any idea of what concert venues I attend, and the fact that I do not drink or smoke ect... your comment is far fetched!
Like I had stated before, I do not know much about the case. Just asking a few questions. Did her friends have the keys to her car? Was she in a place where she was familiar with?
Thanks JC
RE: "The roads in Blandemar Estates are closer to the ââ?¬Å?far ends" of Anchorage Farm."
RE: "Blandemar is full of extreamly wealthy people"
Hmm... is this a case of privileged kids gone wild ?
There can't be too many people that would know how to get to wherever the body was left.
The access to the back side of Anchorage farm from Chopin Dr (along with a few other portions of Blandemar) are particularly interesting if the description of the remains being a mile and a half from 29 is correct.
I must agree with a previous writer:there is no factual evidence that a positive identifacation has been made. I pray that it's not true. God bless that family. Whatever way I can help please let me know, if this is positive!I know wh's like to have a monster take an innocent baby's life.Please everyone honor their privacy at this time.Believe me this is not a show!!!
Blandemar Estates will be looked at. It looks like very easy access for a perp.
Kat to cat - you make a wonderful point. There is a killer on the loose, and everyone (especially females) should not let their guard down. Again, someone right now is acting irrationally or nervous because they are the killer and they are afraid they will be caught now that Morgan has been found. Keep an eye out for this person. Prayers to the family.
"Cat - there is a dangerous person loose in Charlottesville."
Sadly enough, it took local law enforcement 12 years+ (?) to catch a serial rapist. And the cops only caught the rapist then because a victim of his spotted him and saw him eating at Burger King in Barracks Road Shopping Center one day and the cops were able to retrieve the cup he was drinking from to test for DNA. The DNA results leds the cops straight to the suspect in a split second. The victim solved this long standing serial rapist case.
Even with the technology and advancements available to law enforcement conducting investigations nowadays, it appears it's going to take much longer to catch this serial murderer than the public would like for whatever reason.
My remarks are of course dependent on the fact that we are dealing with a serial killer. And I do believe we are. I had a very close tie to the Alicia Showalter Reynolds case, and I am still disturbed and aggravated that the murderer has never brought to justice yet.
quote: "Oh, and GSOE"Š.keep on posting! I really believe you post things most people are afraid to say!
Ohh, I will. :)
I have butted heads with stronger adversaries than are present here in The Hook blogs!
Banks have bulletproof glass for a reason.
cars have keys and locks for a reason
businesses have alarms for a reason.
Women should be careful where they go after dark for a reason.
This poor girl learned the hard way. I hope some of you are paying attention and make adjustments in your own life. Stop feeling sorry for people in jail. I would bet whoever did this has a rap sheet. Stop thinking that just because there are laws on the books you are safe, 911 is not a genie in a bottle that will pop out the second you dial. Stop thinking that if you weigh 110 lbs the "law" will protect you from a 175 pound animal with an agenda.
Odds are that this girl was chosen because she met certain physical requirements. She had the right to dress however she wanted but when she chose to do so she should have made sure she had adequate protections from friends.
Please accept that you live in a world where a very small percentage of people are crazy and will do heinous things.
Do not her loss be in vain. Protect yourself. Raise your sons to respect woemen and women respect yourself enough to protect yourself from predators like this.
I'm pretty far left on the political spectrum, but even I don't think people should gain admittance to a venue they have no ticket for. For one thing, every venue is obligated by law to limit admittance to the capacity of the location. Not doing so can lead to horrible stampedes and multiple deaths in riots. Concert organizers are rightly liable for not monitoring how many people they admit. I just cannot imagine a workable system in which I would be admitted without a ticket to any theater or arena or stadium I appeared at, just to prevent my possible abduction and death outside the venue. I'm sorry but that's completely brainless.
Morning Red Hill local...if you have the time, can you check in at blinkoncrime.com? If you go to the most recent article about Morgan, I'm sure there are folks there who would have questions for you about the area around the farm.
I think Dave Bass said he got up his last cut of hay there in August? That's usually when we do our second cut, too...and it's not grown again to 2 feet by late October...it's short through the winter. Morgan would have been walking through sharp cut hay and probably soft ground, even mud. Do you know it anyone is in the rental in the back of the property? I think the Bass's live in the old main house up front?
I'm with FLD in that this isn't the work of a serial killer. I'm not quite getting why people would think that. Possibly in people's emotional upset they're not thinking clearly and getting a little hysterical, jumping to rash conclusions. You're most likely looking at an opportunistic crime. Somebody saw an opportunity and went for it. As FLD pointed out, if this were the work of a "serial" killer then there should be a series of murders with some sort of pattern going on. There isn't. People are trying to link a murder from the mid-90s, saying they're the work of the same person but in my opinion they're not. They're too far apart, and the pattern is different. Again, I think somebody came across Morgan that night and took advantage of an opportunity. The whole thing is unfortunate. As a young female who used to have to walk everywhere back when I didn't have a car, and did so in highly urban Southern California, and without any self defense mechanisms like pepper spray on me, it's a wonder I didn't befall the same fate on a few occasions. It gives me the willies to think about that happening to somebody.
@Lee - Your first paragraph is dead on. No stranger that's never been on the place is going to googlemap it and drive up in the middle of the night.
Also, Chopin Dr is a private, automatic gated driveway of a wealthy family.
I just read on CNN about this tragic case. I'm really sorry for her and her family!
What I find most absurd is that this young woman would go out and try to hitchhike home (from what I understand, she drove with friends that day from Harrisonburg, and she was originally from Roanoke) all by herself at night. Why would her friends let her do such crazy thing? Did she know anybody in Charlottesville she might have contacted? Was she sober?
P.S. It's outrageous that the Arena security didnt let her back in. I mean she's all alone? Why wasn't she met by her friends at the exit/entrance with her ticket? There too many obscure points in this whole story.
@local - I'll check your link when I have more time. The house you see up on the mountain to the right at the back of the property (I assume you're referring to this as rental house) is actually a neighbors home accessible only from 29 3/4 mile north of the Anchorage entrance.
nobody knows if she was even abducted. she might have left with someone she knew, or willingly left with people for a certain reason. to connect her the jpj to her death is absurd until we have all the facts. she wasnt thrown out, seems to have left my her own free choice. Im sure MH was a smart girl and she knew you just dont stroll out of concerts and then back in again. other kids Im sure left or were thrown out, none of those have turned up deceased. the culprit is to blame, and possibly her physical state at that time.
i dont think the uva lawyers fear losing a case, but they probably fear all the publicity.
Suppose she had gone to the concert, realized Metallica sucks and left voluntarily without seeking rentry. Would you still be holding JPJ accountable????
Facts not in dispute:
She left the concert.
The Concerts rules are well stated
There were Police outside had she asked for help.
She had a cell phone and until the presumed abduction could have called anyone for help including 911 if she was injured.
The arena does not have unusual rules compared to other venues.
The arena has a legal obligation to protect those inside the arena first and formost which includes protection from people sneaking in weapons or drugs or going in and out to get high in the parking lot.
If she had wandered off to a party voluntarily after being turned away, had a good time and on her way BACK across the bridge ...(after the concert) was then abducted AFTER all the people at JPJ were home in bed would you people STILL think JPJ is responsible?????
ANOTHER QUESTION: If this was a serial killer do you think that there would not have been a VICTIM during that time frame (within a few days anyway)? There are UVA women staggering down the streets every weekend. How hard would it be to grab one.
Third QUESTION:
If she had gone back in, and someone else who was permitted back in after getting high in the parking lot had "accidentally" fallen over the railing from the upper tier and landed on her and killed her would you be suing JPJ for lax renetry policies, citing as evidence all of the other venues who "protect" their patrons?
Face it... the world is not as safe as it once was and all the koom by ya won't make it so.
You people may think that we have made progress but Charlottesville was a better place when fathers refused to let their daughters leave the house dressed "like that" and kept a baseball bat in the closet just in case a boy mistreated his daughter.
I hope when they catch whoever did this they die a slow and painful death.
Dakota & Ashamed I'm reading comments, no one should have to turn in the fact the murderer is posting, they (LE) should have people following the blogs....a serial killer will return to the scene of the crime to relive the fantasy...what better place to see the outcome of his/her actions than the blog....gives them the attention that they crave....
Breezing through these comments - both the commenters and the parents of this unfortunate dead "girl" are so brainless! She got herself wasted - how is that anyone else's responsibility? No one is laying responsibility on the shoulders of the victim because THAT would be so "cold". Some psychopath took advantage of her because she allowed herself to be open to just about anything now didn't she? And that murderer is likely having a ball reading comments from the leftards who posted here. Go home and grow some gray matter ya bunch of primates.
heres the link to the story about the kids' group:
@ outraged: build your own arena and you can do whatever you please. We'll see how long is takes you to adopt the very same policies. Prob. right after Gasbag sues your a$$.
Let'a get one thing straight beffore it goes any further. Her Brother lives in NYC..not in charlottesville. So lets dismiss that rumor. It could have been one of the hired security who lured her outside and we will not know until the investigation is complete. Make no mistake.. this perp or perps will be caught. Alot of people saw and heard aot of going ons and now that her remains have been found.. It is a matter of time. It will be solved because Folks are tired of the attacks and murders that have occcured and have gone unsolved.. Continue to call LE with anything that will bring Justice for Morgan and possibly other victims of the Perp/perps. That's the Ticket for the safety for all.
outraged.... how about a compromise....
if you leave you purchase a "rentry" ticket, you surrender your ticket stub and they give you a renetry ticket to prevent you from leaving with two ticket stubs and sneaking a friend in.
Thaen they could use that money to recover the cost of the extra security to deal with the people that want to leave and come back.
Of course the rentry ticket price would need to be high enough to cover the increase in liability insurance caused by letting people go outside to smoke crack or snort coke get drunk etc and then come in and fall off yhe upper balcony onto a RESPONSIBLE person.
Outrage -- Public outcry should be enough for JPJ to change its policy. A lawsuit will certainly do the trick.
1) Moon Phase Chart for Oct. 17, 2009: NEW MOON (i.e., Pitch Black). http://www.moonconnection.com/moon_phases_calendar.phtml
Conclusion: She was attempting to evade someone and was able to run for over a mile.
How does that follow from the phase of the moon?
No, JC, definately not. I'm just amazed that people are still trying to blame venue policies when it was a murderer that caused her death. Perhaps when/if they are identified you can knock of the what-ifs.
quote: "Blaming or even insinuating JPJ has any responsibility for Morgans death is way off base. This statement is equivalent to blaming a grocery store for someones weight problem. Rules are rules.
Don't ever forget what took place in the infamous McDonalds "scalding hot coffee" case. The defense attorneys for McDonalds always felt it was a slam dunk case for them, that there was no way McDonalds could ever be held responsible. This thought in turn probably contributed to the loss the defense team suffered. They didn't feel the need to prepare very well for a case they had already won before stepping in the courtroom.
Never underestimate any jury when they are deliberating the civil liability of any place of business.
I would personally love to see this develop into a wrongful death suit, just to see how it turns out. And, it's a shame we even had to arive at this point simply because the John Paul Jones arena denied an obviously injured and in distress Morgan Harrington the right to go back inside.
Rules are rules. I'm sure measures are now being considered to change this.
I seriously doubt it. To change policy now would indicate that the policy was not very sound or reasonable in the first place. This opens the door even further in the department of civil liability.
Nah, JPJ will not be changing policy anytime soon. :)
M Said
"Honestly, the way some people put it, you'd think that JPJ staff and UVA officials sat down at some point and said ââ?¬Å?what can we do to make our arena and grounds as unsafe as possible"?"
Not a very likely scenario. A more than likely conversation in the post 9/11 era would go something like this. ââ?¬Å?What can we do to make our arena and grounds as PROFITABLE as possible"?" After all, do they not control all concessions? Patrons are subjected to frisk searches and possible confiscation of illicit goods such as snacks, candy, and soft beverages, which are ceremoniously dumped out, in addition to whatever illegal substances patrons attempt to smuggle in.
It constantly amazes me the willingness of people to forfeit their civil rights in the name of false security. No less a patriot than Benjamin Franklin said: "Those who would give up essential Liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." There are those on this thread who have stated things like "all venues have the same policy" or "rule are rules" and "they are protecting the safety of the crowd by refusing re-entry." I shudder when I read that many people cower in the face of bullies. IMHO, JPJ/RMC are simply protecting the $$$. I suppose that normally that would be ok, but, in this instance the policy failed, and greatly contributed to the sequence of events that ultimately led to the abduction and subsequent murder of Morgan Harrington. It's been my contention from the beginning that UVA/RMC must shoulder some responsibility for the events of that night. They could have helped her. They could have saved her. I agree that they are not entirely culpable, They were not the abductors, but again they must shoulder responsibility for enforcing a flawed policy that will probably cause further problems down the road, unless the citizens of Charlottesville change it. The JPJ?RMC has no incentive to change anything.
Outraged -- thank you!
The speculation and accusations here and at the Find Morgan forum and other forums is really just crazy. I know people want answers, but, wow. At findmorgan.com now they are posting names, plotting to stalk people on facebook, and once again back to blaming the friends (as has been done here). If the whole truth ever does come out I think people will have to ask themselves WHY they were so absorbed by this case and had they known all the facts from the beginning, would that have changed their involvement? Speculation and accusation doesn't bring her back, doesn't change the fact that she made some bad and dangerous decisions that led to her having something happen that she absolutely did not deserve. Let the people with the facts do their jobs and those who know nothing of Charlottesville or the Harringtons except what you see on your computer screen, be careful with your opinions. RIP Morgan.
GSOE: your 2 years is not up. im sure you wont forget about it before that tolls.
to Big Dog "Public outcry should be enough for JPJ to change its policy. A lawsuit will certainly do the trick."
While i agree with you. and prat that you are correct. I don't see much public outcry. I perceive a continued willingness to line up like so many lemmings' and blame the victim. I see a trend of accepting the erosion of civil rights as necessary. Whether it be eminent domain, land rights, or unlawful seizure, or even a re-entry policy, it appears that folks are willing to acquiesce in the name of a sense of security. I guess I'm glad that now I'm old & in the way and I won't live to see the collapse of our American way of life and the death of the constitution. But these topics are for another day. Right now change must be made at JPJ.
Listening carefully, I heard one reporter say the remains were found "on the fence." From the helicopter shots, there appears to something white, possibly a temporary emergency tent, located at the back of the farm, closer to Blandemar Estates than the house seen from Rt. 29. Not far from creek and fenceline. The flooded creek, which also borders Blandemar could have unearthed a shallow grave and washed the body downstream into the fence. Based on goole earth ruler,farm owner Bass may have overstated the number of miles to the site when he mentioned 1-1.5 miles from where he was standing. Though the area is remote, access to the farm can be made through either its border with Blandemar or its neighbors to the north who appear to share a lake with the farm. The first curve on Red Hill Road is also in close proximity to the farm and the possible discovery site. I imagine that the gate is left open at night because there is another house at the end of the farm road.
The Washington Post, New York Daily News, CNN, etc. all reported this morning that Morgan was denied re-entry to JPJ. Clearly, this important detail will not just go away.
What is the re-entry policy trying to prevent? It's trying to prevent a bunch of hooligans from going out into the parking lot, chugging some bourbon, and then coming back to their seats. Think of all the drunk fights that would happen at JPJ or wherever if this policy was lifted. I hate to put probabilities on it, but it's more likely that someone would get hurt in drunk fights at JPJ than you are to get kidnapped outside.
If this in another murder by the 29 serial murderer the post above would make sense. Maybe she was chased for a mile off 29 by the killer. There is also another few spot which are about 1/2 mile from site. Maybe she was chased by killer.
Agree with dog above...this all comes back to JPJ. UVA needs to reach out to the family and set up a memorial at minumum.
quote: "Oh think of the spectacle, one pot belly wannabe cop suing another!"
Cup Cake, while a few loose cannon cops still roaming the streets would certainly echo your sentiments, I am proud to say I was a sworn deputy sheriff in Virginia for decades. There was no wannabe for me. :)
Mer: Exactly. If there are fights at JPJ with no re-entry, imagine how bad it would be if everyone could head back out to the lot to get some more.
I don't know what her condition was when she was denied re-entry, but if a person was "out" of it and "drunk", that might reason enough to *not* let that person back in.
Supposedly she called her friends and told them she couldn't get back in. In my opinion it's her friends fault more than it is the JPJ folks.
with that last comment. . .ew
@Tidewater - There's an RV parking area near JPJ. There is NO RV garage on the Bass property. There are a couple big barns on the Blandemar estate, none on Anchorage.
Yes, I am pretty sure about that.
(Number of Assaults in Cville / Pop of Cville) > (Number of Kidnappings in Cville / Pop of Cville)
You're not talking probabilities, you are talking impacts. It's true, one kidnapping is too many, but they are also rare. You're more likely to die from heart disease than get kidnapped. It's just how it is.
quote: "...Gas Bag Self Ordained Expert is now getting creepy with that last comment. . .ew
Yeah, you got me that time! It's pretty creepy commenting on female cops being able to handle themselves out on the street more professionally than their male counterparts.
It's too bad Morgan Harrington didn't stumble across a female cop outside the arena. Bet things would have turned out differently.
dismiss rv lotts that is a mistake, their are no rv lots in the aera
Please do not put Bass on post.
He should not be brung into the the spot light having nothing to do with this other than finding the girl.
do people party up on that area ? what do you think happened? we need somebody that knows what really goes on there. . .not these people who are trying to see thru the computer screen.
All the people in that area are respected people. I don't feel they have anything to do with what has happenend.
But someone knows.
I hope the power that be find out and give them what they desireve
Big Dog,
You know, I get you can identify with her parents, but frankly, I think this blame game at UVA is what is so wrong with this country today - it's everybody else's fault.
Concerts like this are dangerous. they attract a number of out of town unpredictable drug addicts, or those who might wish to prey on people just like Morgan. You absolutely have to be on your guard.
Several poor decisions were made that night, and most of not all were not made by JPJ. They were made by Morgan and her friends. She walked out of JPJ and she chose to hitch hike home If she was intoxicated, that was her choice too. Morgan could have caught a bus to Barracks road to wait. She could have called a cab to take her to Barracks road to wait.
Do I think its worth a review of procedure for JPJ? You bet. They need to see if they can better identify a person in distress, and if they have to deny them entry, a way to give them the help they need.
But if there is any 'person' I look at in this, I tend to look at her parents. I have a bad feeling they were over controlling and didn't allow her to develop a better decision making skill set. That skill set might have saved her that night.
Ultimately, instead of ranting over UVA, we need to spend our energy finding IF a crime did occur, and then catch the person who did it. Then we all think about how each of us can do things better, so that another young person doesn't fall into the same trap.
Gasbag or Windbag...Morgan made the choice to leave JPJ. I know people who saw her in the bathroom and she said she was fine, she didn't need help nor wanted any. Have you ever tried to help a drunk? Windbag you need to be pointing the finger at her friends. They are the ones that abandon her. They knew Morgan was a partier and I'm sure her parents were not aware of that side of her. All parents want to believe there child is good and there's nothing wrong with that. If Morgan's friends had gone outside when she called the events would have been so different. I feel for those friends because I know I could never ever live with myself knowing that I had a hand in her death. So blaming JPJ...wrong. Sueing JPJ not going to happen.
Ah Mikey, you just can't handle the truth. It makes no "sense" to you because YOU are the one devoid of gray matter. Get a life.
The murderer is....posting comments to this Hook article.
Ashamed I'm Reading Comments
If you know that to be fact, have you turned that info into the authorities ?
Hmmm...okay, below is a website, click on the link titled "002-0734", which gives the history of the home, layout of the land,and lists the names of every family that has lived in it since it was built. A family grave site is located somewhere on the property. Surrounded by a steel fence. So, besides hunters, or past parties thrown at the house, there would also be people who would want to visit grave sites of dead relatives who would be familiar with the area. The Anchorage Farm home, according to this document, was once a funeral home. Interesting stuff.
Lets Be Fair - how come you only post comments from what others say, but you do not post your own opinions? This has been a constant with you throughout this commenting board. What is your opinion about Morgan's killer?
quote: "Gasbag, you have been a trip to listen to."
Was it a good trip or a bad trip? :)
The parents of Morgan are not faulting JPJ arena. They are going through enough. They do not need some arrogant stranger saying they or their daughter is "brainless." (mo' better - do you not have a heart?) The fact is, a lot of mistakes were made that night, and no one should be blamed except for the possible murderer.
"Morgan Harrington's father says his family doesn't blame anyone at John Paul Jones Arena for what happened. Instead, they want to focus on getting the word out and finding their daughter." ~Newsplex.com
Now that Morgan has been found, unfortunately deceased, I believe they would rather find out if it was murder and find the person who did it, instead of getting into a lawsuit. I can't speak for them, but that is my opinion of such a wonderful set of parents.
Yes let's just blame the girl.
It's the girl's fault
She shouldn't have been beautiful
She shouldn't have been at a concert
Wearing makeup
And a skirt
She was asking for it
They all ask for it
That way when the body is found it becomes their fault
Or the friends
Or the parents
Never the killer's
No, he was giving her what she asked for
So in America in 2009
If you are a woman don't go out alone
Don't go to public events alone
Don't walk after dark alone
If you are pretty or young,
Because if something happens to you
Remember you asked for it
Thst's what the world will say
Not that you are/were beautiful
full of live
Waiting to burst onto life's arena
Waiting for your first real love
your father walking you down the aisle
Your children
No, you are a tri-dimensional flesh cartoon
An object of hostile desire
An object to be destroyed
We talk about the Taliban
With girl/woman murderers in our midst
But as we can see, in America
in 1009 and 2010 you can always find people to say
She asked for it
People it has been something to read with about this. I wish you all the best. Gasbag you have been a trip to listen to. Yes, I personally feel that The concert givers have a lot to answer for. If they are holding a concert on a university they should have higher standards. Beyond all this, a young woman should be able to walk safely in a university town. Blame the person who killed her and dumped her.
I am signing off of this and again my best to you all. Take care of your families and remember until this is solved, there is a dangerous person loose in Charlottesville.
Cat 2 4 1
From news reports it sounds like Morgan may have been kidnapped. If Morgan escaped and ran that night - regardless if from Hwy 29 or another road - when in total darkness because of a New Moon, when the temperature was around 40 degree F. without a heavy coat - she would have suffered from hypothermia within a few hours.
If the police lab can find no evidence for cause of death then suspect hypothermia. Wiki has a reasonable summary on stages of hypothermia and how the person shivers, gets disoriented, and then may feel over-heated. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypothermia
A friend of mine died from hypothermia after getting soaked by a cold April rain.
Estranged Father - I have a crazy idea for you. Instead of teaching our daughters that they need a man to protect them, why not teach our sons not to rape and kill women?
I drove by the farm house on 29 while the film crews were setting up and police were at the foot of the drive. I moved from out of state to the area in October of last year. I drove the same route on 29 countless times in finding a residence, working, and the actual move. When I drove by and saw the film crews and police officers my stomach filled with knots.
I will not place blame in any direction and reserve judgement in all ways. I have never lost a daughter, I am not a parent, I don't know what I would do in an effort to find her. I am however a daughter and I can only imagine what my loved ones would do in an effort to find me alive or lay me to rest. Pull the skeletons out of the closet, scream, yell, dance on the tables if you must. I am by no means a saint. I would like to think my parents are smart enough to use any connection or means possible to find me.
These are my thoughts:
1. She was planning to meet someone all along.
2. How they met the first time I don't know.
3. I don't think I feel for sure she was highly intoxicated: I read she contacted her parents to inform them she made if safely to the venue. I don't know the times of the calls, was there enough time from when she checked in with her parents and when she was outside of the arena to consume enough alcohol or drugs to in pare a bright woman of this generation to get in a car with a stranger?
4. The friends my not have known the who she was going to see but knew she was comfortable with that person and just left the concert without her?
5. From what I can see of the location and my knowledge of topographical maps I get the feeling this was well planned.
My own experience:
I am a woman how has traveled alone all over the world for both work and pleasure. If I am not familiar with an area very well, I know even when I was an inexperienced traveler I sought out a woman to ask directions/share the confidence that I am lost with.
Thus what is the possibly she left the area with another woman?
Jeff D,
What does not fit the Known-Published Facts?
Please explain.
Is this case solvable??
REynolds murder was never found
I do think that anything is solvable.
First, I have to say that my heart go out to the family. I follow this from day one, and it always bring me back to, the purse and cell phone, this was premeditated. 1. This is not for money 2. Left ID and personal items 3. Disable the GPS of the phone, working or not battery in or not 4. Chose a location of large amount of land. The problem I have is leaving items behind that ID her at this location. I think that he thought she would not be found, if so he works for the farmer and planed to return in the spring for work, this would give him accessto the location and machinery, he could then dispose body, if the famer ask question, he could say he found a dead deer. Back to JMJ. He could have talked her into wating out the concert with him, and con her into drinking well she waits, this is a long shot but, he would have to buy alcohol, LE will get names of those that have worked for the farmer for at lease 5 yrs + if they pull records from the stores, and a name matches, you will have the killer.
I will reiterate my statement before...has anyone seen anything about a cause of death???
I continue to be impressed by the coverage of The Hook and just want to stop in to praise the quality & integrity of the writers and the information provided. As a Virginia Tech grad (and Virginia native), my heart has been heavy each day since Morgan disappeared & I have followed her case closely; the articles published on The Hook are more informative than nearly any I have read- whether small newpapers or national news stations. Thank you for your time, efforts & demontration of class in what you have written & published. Now that the hope of finding Morgan alive has been eliminated, like most everyone else I'm sure, I will anticipate seeing a headline that whoemever put her in that field, is found too...
delilah.. I have a carzy idea for YOU... accept the fact that women are the weaker sex and no matter how much "training" you give a son there will be nut jobs out there doing crazy stuff.
You don't need to "teach" men not to be killers or rapists.
You can teach them to respect women which is surely lacking but estranged father has some good points.
I feel as a Ch'ville native that this is another example of the city biting off more than it can chew. The city is NOT equipped to handle the security issues that the Arena and its huge concerts generate. Some kind of security station must certainly be available, as others have said. A community has a responsibility to protect its citizens, no matter what condition they may be in. This is a heartbreaking loss. And, to whomever said that women deserve sexual violence or murder because they are intoxicated - your comments sicken me.
The JPJ Arena of UVA have a no-reentry policy--good or bad period. They think this policy is for everyone's safety on the property--that's fine. However, the parking lot is their property too. And why is it somebody didn't care about anybody's safety outside on the property? They received a large exchange of money from all the Patrons. Does anyone know if they salt the parking lots when it is icy during an event? The JPJ Arena has never mentioned who was on patrol protecting the parking lots. Maybe all the Security Guards work at the Fashion Square Mall parking lot and have never heard of the JPJ Arena at UVA! Maybe Morgan's death could of been avoided if someone provided some safety measures on the OUTSIDE property. Insurance policies are lowered in price if you reduce the risk of liabilities. I feel so ANGRY about Morgan Harrington's death and it's very sad.
I've seen plenty of security and police present in and around JPJ at all the events I attended, however, how are they supposed to protect someone who (reportedly) voluntarily leaves the premisis?
So what good would all the security in the world ON the property do her if she was OFF the property? Security on the property seems irrelevant if she was not on the property when/if she was abducted or left voluntarily with someone.
When Morgan Harrington was ON the property is very relevant.
Anybody can say they have seen some LE at the JPJ Arena parking lots. I'm not blogging about anything regarding security OFF the property.
Anna "Some kind of security station must certainly be available, as others have said. A community has a responsibility to protect its citizens, no matter what condition they may be in. '
Why yes they do. "That condition" is usually cause for arrest for underage drinking or public intoxication and it gets them off the streets so that the public can feel safe. In jail, the arrested are protected by the constitution. Apparently, Morgan wasn't arrested. Maybe because she was pretty or because she was able to function of her own accord.
We only have witnesses via media reports. These witnesses came to the reporters. That should be your first clue. That these witness accounts vary so widely should have been your second. There is first aid available inside the arena as you walk past LE, security, ushers and thousands of people that could help. Yet you walk out the doors past the staff reminding you there is no re-entry - JUST IN CASE you miss the signage over the doors. did the foul ball hit you in the head? The dead silence of her friends? Strike 3, you're out of touch with reality.
Summer Breeze
Anybody can say they have seen some LE at the JPJ Arena parking lots. I'm not blogging about anything regarding security OFF the property.
If you can quit blogging long enough to enroll at google U. check out the UVa campus map that pinpoints all the blue safety phones in and around campus. Anyone can use them to connect directly to UVa Police. Why would a scared person ask a complete stranger to borrow her phone?
How many people have come and gone out of JPJ without incident? I can't see how changing the reentry policy would have saved Morgan.
You could demand LE/JPJ be proactive rather than reactive.If JPJ gave breathlyzers and drug screening like airports use BEFORE one goes in, that would help ensure their judgment was preserved to the best of their ability.
Aveion Lewis wasn't safe in his own Roanoke home. He was murdered and left in a landfill. The no re-entry policy is everywhere sadly even though it isn't always posted. May all those taken too soon rest in peace.
Reading here, I thought JPJ to be the initials of some person of interest to these crime bloggers.
Why is everyone here still so caught up in speculating about the arena? I understand that this is the last confirmed location of Morgan Harrington, but what is the beef here?
Whocares, a follow up question to yours might be who thinks a camera posted on ebay from New York has anything to do with a crime in Charlottesville. One might conclude that often time you aren't reading the thoughts of very rational people here. Blaming the arena is a pretty good sign of that, but hardly the only one.
AMAZING RUMOR THAT her pantera shirt was found on 15th street, behind the corner. after 3 months. a day after the body was found. this case is absurd.
galileo - keep your head in the stars where it belongs and you can continue to go through life blindly. Everything is connected somehow. Solving a crime is about putting all the puzzle pieces together. Why would anyone come to this forum and bash other people's theories and to help in any way they can? Why don't you help be productive instead of completely useless?! It is close-minded people like you who I hope are not leading this investigation.
I and my band mates have been reading about the story of Morgan and her anguished parents from almost when she went missing.We truly hoped she would be found alive and well,sadly this was not the case and our hearts bleed for Morgan,Mr & Mrs. Harrington as well as the fine people of Virginia.
We have played many arenas over the past few years and in many of them they use glowing wrist bracelets or special hand stamps with designs on them..I don't understand why this wasn't used in this case but also know the perils of people going out to get their" party on"
Off topic.. I myself wanted to commend The Hook for the wonderful website they have developed!It has become one of my favourite places to read up on news.We have a few posters here who have become legends to us and enjoy how you interact with one another.
Stay strong and remember to love one another...It's all we really have after all.
Hello northern neighbor from Canada , the second greatest Country in the world . You know us loud mouth American's and our love of our country :)
If I may , I ask what part of Canada your from ? The reason I ask is you may have been under surveillance of web sleuth's lol .
If you are from the far west coast of Canada ( British Columbia / Prince George ) then your every move online may have been monitored . Don't freak out ,they lost intrest in the person and decided they were not responsabe for Morgan's dissapearence . I am just proving a point . This is the first case of any crime I have seen with such depth from online resources scouring the globe to bring Morgan home / perp to justice . What is really scary is I have been introduced to some of the software and tactics used to dig for information . OMG , Law Enforcement cannot even pull this stuff off ( legally ) and it beat's anything I have ever seen. Illegal is not a strong enough word . But I must say it takes what it takes to produce results.
Anyway , you are not a suspect at all Donny ,I also know I was only shown this info because they ruled the person from Canada out as a POI and move onto the next target . Just so happens the information I was shown was from Canada and then I see you here at the HOOK and I remembered back to it from a couple months ago . I just know there was some surveillance I was shown on a person in the area I mentioned and the depth of knowledge people can obtain about someone online is unbelievable to say the least . Boy, was I naive to what can be done online and what the hackers/web sleuths can get from the comfort of of home . YIKES .
You play in a band , Can't be, I thought all Canadians were pig farmers :) .
Peace bro from your Neighbor's
If you want to find a killer think like a killer
To: who cares and galilea / arpal
I agree with Kat, and william--you are right on. Morgan's purse and cell phone was found on the property (very important clues) and the killer knew he was out of sight--poor lighting and no videos, and no security guard. No security guard has ever come forward stating he was on paid duty at the JPJ Arena parking lot. That's the real shame here. The trouble began on the UVA John Paul Jones Arena property. The parking lot was perfect for an opportunist killer. That's why we have crime prevention security at other venues.
thank god they found her
too, too sad
Hopefully whatever is discovered eases the Harrington's pain.
Reminder that the body has not been positively identified. It's a little early to say that it is indeed Morgan. At this point it can only be speculation.
Sending prayers out to her poor family.
Unfortunately, should it end up being Morgan, the location rules out her just wandering off and lends itself to foul play.
i am so sorry for the parents may God help them and may God punish the person/s responsible for this my familys prayers are with you.
My prayers are for the family and the community. Unfortunately, it looks more like someone who knew the area than an out-of-towner. Not everyone has iPhones or gps, and most know that turning down a country lane is likely to end in a field. Also, unless someone knew that the area was frequented by non-residents, more likely that they would believe that turning into a gated drive would draw attention to themselves rather than give a place to be out of sight/mind. But this is speculation. We are not in position to judge the evidence; that will be for the authorities. SO for now, to the Harringtons and the family of the woman they found - our prayers for peace. For my kids who are still safe - thanks be to God.
For GOD sake ladies.....go with a friend and keep an eye on each other. Don't get obliterated and leave with a "cute guy" or anything like that. This could be your fate. Get smart ladies!!!! There are too many people out there that dont give a damn about you and could care less where you end up. My deepest sympathy goes out to the family. May God ease your pain and suffering from this tragic loss.
@Angie: "I once walked a drunken 11 miles and it took me almost 5 hours. True story!"
This isn't the time or the place for humorous "true story!" quips. Do you not have any empathy? Do you not understand that there's a time and a place for things, and this isn't it?
(Makes me wonder if that's the same "Angie" who was posting in earlier Morgan stories back in October and November, supposedly a "friend" and throwing around the "2-4-1" code in her posts. If so, then the glaring difference between those posts and this one here is scary. If it's not, then disregard. Must be a different "Angie" then.)
Lighten up, boo! I think a person's recollection of having walked 11 miles in 5 hours is very relevant to this discussion.
She was seen getting into a vehicle with someone on the bridge. Has it ever been reported what kind of vehicle it was.
There's a creepy-ass dude that lives on that farm. His first name starts with a J. I wonder if the cops will be speaking to him.
I don't know if this is her or not, but for the family's sake, I hope it's the result they need for themselves. For closure if you will. I know her father personally, but haven't spoken to him since this incident. I hope that he and his family are somewhat at peace with this conclusion. Whatever the turnout may be. God bless their souls.
Virginia State police believe they have found the remains of Morgan Harrington, at least the parents can put her remains to rest, now praying the monster that took this young womans life can be caught. Our prayers also go out to the Harrington family.
And to the person/s that felt like playing God to take her life, you may never be caught her in your mortal time, but your time before God will come. You would get off easy with society any how with the lethal injection, just know this, life is but a short ride, what will your excuses be when you cant run and hide when you stand before HIM. Are ya able to sleep? Are you able to go about your days never thinking twice about it, my guess is no. Was it worth it?
Defintely looks like this could be linked to other cases. Time for the police to step up and let people know if cases are linked
The Harrington's were definitely in Charlottesville today and they went up in the State Police helicopter. According to a connection at the airport, they weren't up for very long and were visibly upset then they returned.
So sad. Why so many woman, so many places. Why dwas she not given re-rentry to the concert being alone. Let's watch out for woman stranded alone or ewandering alone...
They flew over me about 1:50 p.m. to 2:00 p.m.
I figured the VSP helicopter was here in town dealing with something to do with the Harrington case.
quote: "Let's watch out for woman stranded alone or wandering alone..."
Twenty five years ago we could! You could stop and ask a girl if they were stranded or needed help if it appeared they were in some sort of distress.
If you try to do this nowadays, you would immediately be accused of being some sexual pervert attempting to pick them up and do harm to them. And sadly enough, the girl(s) you could be attempting to help have been taught the same thing for the last few decades.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, I said it the first day in a thread and was quoted in the Hook. The JPJ must shoulder some responsibility here for refusing re-entry to this young woman. I've read the diatribes to my original post and never bought into them.I thought they were self-serving and closed minded.
Things like: "It's standard operating procedure in every venue, everywhere". or "Once you are an adult your safety is your own concern" Well people that's just not acceptable here in Charlottesville. There has to be a gray area.. Something must be learned here to make our children safer when they shell out mega-dollars to see a mega show. They must be made to feel safe, to be safe. I'm not saying JPJ/RMC is completely at fault for the actions of a sick individual. But, their lack of perception at the time of refusal of re-entry has greatly contributed to the tragic news we are all learning about today.Please, Look at the re-entry policy and make some changes before this happens again to another family. It's just not ok to continue business as usual.
Brandi asked:
"If she was denied access back in .. why didn't she hang out in the parking lot where her car was until the concert was over?"
Dear Brandi, Summertime Party Girl, please put on a mini-skirt and a t-shirt, go outside, and lean on your car for a while. Pace around the parking area. Report back to us on how long it took you to figure out the answer to your question.
Another tragic end to a promising future cut short by underage drinking and a hasty decision. Another family and a circle of friends are in mourning due to a senseless and random act of violence. May they all somehow find peace and comfort in the days ahead. My prayers are with you all.
Rest in peace Morgan.....
"However the cold hard facts remain that JPJ has a no re-entry policy. And that this young woman was arbitrarlily refused re-entry, which ultimately led to her abduction and apparent murder."
If they have a policy... then I don't think you understand what the word "arbitrarily" means.
May God be with the family of whomever the remains may be, whether it be Morgan or someone else. And with prayers,God will lead the athorities to this MAD person that did this horrible thing. I will pray for piece of mind and broken hearts to start heeling.
Let me make sure I have this right.
Her purse and cell phone were found in the RV parking area.
There is an RV garage on the Bass property.
I've read all the post here,but something right from the beginning has me most curious. It makes no sense, they drive Morgan's car to the concert, go inside, Morgan comes out and cannot get back in, but she does not have her car keys?????????? but had her purse. Why did her friends have her keys????? Why then did the friends NOT bring the keys to her so she would have her car while they watched the concert????? I have a question I know someone has the answer. Is there video that actually places Morgan inside the arena?
I'll check back tomorrow, hope someone can answer the video question and questions about the keys if there is one.
I am positive they will find the perp or perps who abducted Morgan and tossed her cell phone and purse by the bridge. It is loclas no doubt that would know where to discard the remains so they would not be found for months. She was tossed and left like garabge and make no mistake.. she didn't go willingly like many of you are speculating. She was a beautiful girl who was obviously eeling fear when she tried to get that man at the gates to act as though he was with her and he declined which left her kicking him . I only wish he would've taken the time to ask her if she was in fear of someone and not brushed her off as a doof.I hope his daughter is never in need of protection and rejected as he did Morgan, Someone out there nows who did this to Beautiful morgan and it is time they come forward. This could happen to any family and would you want your loved one murdered then talked about like some of you have on here? She is a victim of a murderer. The Perps need to Justice. Morgan deserves that and so do The harringon Family. There is never closure for familes who lose a child in the way Morgan was taken away from them. They need answers and someone out there knows who is responsible. I beg you to come forward and tell the Proper authorities. Remember, there are still missing and unsolved murders around there and someone is responsible and your family could be next if they are not stopped. When this is solved and the perps are held accountable.. I only hope in time.. There can be some sort of Peace for her Family. That Void is never filled. God Bless The Harringgton Family. NO one deserves this EVER.
I am willing to bet that ultimately, we will find out that Anchor Farm was not only the location of the disposal of the body, but the crime scene as well. Your killer knows that area well. He is either a hunter, a former farm worker, or a nearby resident who uses that area of the farm as his own area of solitude for drinking and drug use, etc. As far as access, ask any deer hunter who uses either an ATV or a simple motorcycle, to bring his kill out of the woods. The farm owner, David Bass, is not home all the time, nor is he awake all the time, so if one possess both the geographical and working knowledge of the farm, one would know exactly how and when to enter the property site. Beig a cattle farm, in that remote an area, the presence of buzzards would not neccessarily be a cause for alarm. Especially since there was no reason for anyone to believe that she had gone that far south.
It is ironic that U. VA has issued a decree that the athletic field is now off limits to the public, almost at the same time that the news breaks about the discovery of the body at Anchor Farm. Perhaps common sense will see better lighting installed in the area of JPJ/U.Hall/Scott Stadium. Perhaps now the issue of no readmission at an event will be logically reconsidered. Perhaps, as has been suggested at an editorial site of a local radio personality, we can start raising more patriarchs than predators.
Man, there are an awful lot of posts on this thread, and all the previous MH stories, trying to place blame when the public knows next to nothing and it seems that information has almost certainly been withheld...
1) Her friends - from what we have been told, it's really easy to point the finger at them and ask, "What were they thinking?!" However, that's because we don't know what they were thinking because essentially nothing has been released! Perhaps those working on the case haven't divulged that information because they thought it would actually impede the search for her/let the killer get away? Let's wait to see what information gets released from this. I doubt we've heard the last from them.
2) JPJ - In regards to the whole "once you leave you're done" policy, well, let's just say most people, especially college kids, are well aware of that, and don't question it. Is anyone aware of the extent of the "struggle" she went through to try to gain re-admittance? If she was frantically pleading/begging/obviously in dire need to get back in (and clarified that she wasn't from UVA which I feel is an important point), then I think RMC staff should have made an exception to let her back in. However, we don't know this, as far as I've read. If she simply "tried to gain re-admittance" like some may try upon leaving a football game, concert, etc. but didn't fully explain herself, why would RMC have any problem with telling a college student to go home? For all they knew, she was probably a UVA student who lived within walking distance of JPJ!
Those are just a couple things I felt the need to point out. But again, I feel that we really need to a) focus on the tragedy that this is to her family and friends for the time being, as this has to be awful for them, and b) avoid placing blame until WAY more information is revealed to the public.
To outraged
You are right. The concert area shares an awful lot of the responsibility for this. I lived in Charlottesville as did my family for several years. I personally know of two female students who were assulted on the "grounds" and nothing was ever done. These were not date rape situations. One was found in the bushes with her face bashed in. This was several years ago but the situation doesn't seem to be any better. Within the last three years a male student's car was repeatedly vandalized by his roommate in UVA housing. Again nothing done. You pay to live in a pretty town with Mr Jefferson's legacy up on the hill. Too bad Morgan came to town that day. She has been to other concerts in other cities and never came to any harm there.
the body is Morgan, and maybe she shouldnt have gone outside, but guess what someone made a lot of money selling that concert to thousands of young people like Morgan. Those same people should have given some though thought to keeping them safe. Hopefully, there will be more police attention paid to her body than was paid to the investigation of her going missing. Remember, Dan was right, there is a killer loose in Charlottesville. Guard your families and dont expect much help from Mr Jefferson's University.
From what I saw that night, the arena is liable to the extent that security was lax on admission and there were a number of fights that no one made any attempt to break up. To serve so much booze at a metal concert was foolish. There were some very rough looking guys there that night which was a red flag profiling notwithstanding. Of course most were just dressing up rough but still I was glad I was with other people. BTW opera tickets are way less expensive than rock concerts OR athletic events and rules should never be followed unquestioningly.
JPJ arena does have a NO-RE ENTRY policy. It would not have mattered if she had a ticket stub! I attended a concert there about a month before the Metalica concert. I had to leave early and was told by numerous security guards that I would not be allowed back in if I left. There are also multiple signs stating the policy as well. If she chose to go outside that was her choice-not a reason to sue JPJ or UVA.
Bob you are just plain stupid or a UVA employee? Probably both Either way you are wrong. Just because it is posted, and they told you so does not make it right. This girl was abducted because she was not allowed back in. Go away Bob.
It's futile to point fingers at the venue. Its now a HOMICIDE investigation. Why dont you all blame the perptrator(s) who actually committed the crime versus the venue which did not.
Morgan was a big girl, she could read and could plainly see the signs saying "no re-entry upon exit" posted prominently at the doors of the venue. She chose to go outside for whatever reason, even though there were restroom facilities and other amenities inside the building. What drew her outside?
She did not have a significant wound on her head according to media reports. It was a scrape, but that's about it.
JPJ Arena staff enforced the established policy about no re-entry, one that is in place at many different venues around the country. It is there for a variety of security reasons, so as to deter people from going out to the parking lot, getting high from drugs in their car and returning to wreak havoc in the venue, people trying to sneak into the concert or those who have been ejected from just going around to another entrance and returning.
If I had been in Morgans shoes, I'd have just gone to my car, sat inside it and waited for the concert to be over. It doesn't make sense why she would come up in her own vehicle, but then inexplicably decide to hitch hike home. JPJ Arena is not responsible for her decision to do this. No court will find them civilly liable for actions taken that night. They did not treat Morgan in any unfair or arbitrary manner.
@kat: so, why do you think her mom made the comment about MH showing her the outfit and she said something to the effect that MH knew she prob she wasn't really going to like it but "she was covered" and after all it was a rock concert? j/w what your take is on that.
Metallica was a HUGE concert here in Charlottesville. If I am not mistaken they sold out on tickets. I don't understand why anyone would go outside for a cigarette break during a concert that she had probably purchased tickets for 6 months prior.
As for what happened to Morgan. BIG DOG...if it weren't Morgan it would have been another woman. Because she wasn't allowed to re-enter the building is a not the reason she was killed. Her friends could have came outside with her. Morgan could have waited until the concert was over. There are lots of why's and if's, but it is too late for all that now. Now we must find out who and bring this animal or these animals to justice.
Are people now arguing that it's possible Morgan was wandering around at night on a farm in the middle of nowhere far from home dressed in a skirt in 40 degree weather....looking for 'shrooms? It's about as viable as the "expert" on Nancy Grace theorizing that Morgan was dropped in the field from a plane, or got there on horseback. o_O
Occum's Razor. The simplest explanation tends to be the right one. Enough with these crazy armchair detective scenarios. Leave the detecting to the actual detectives and forensics investigators.
I just can't get over the fact that a young woman from out of town gets turned away at a concert and starts wandering all alone in a misty fall night in a city she's not familiar with. I live in Rome, Italy and I would never venture myself at night to try to walk home.
1) Was she on something at the moment?
2) Did she meet someone outside who volunteered to keep her company in the meantime?
3) How could her friends enjoy the concert knowing their 20y-o female friend is waiting outside dressed in a T-shirt with no car keys?
I don't want to blame the 2 kids who were with her!! Maybe it's a cultural thing, but had this happened to some friends I would have given up watching the concert and gone outside to be with my friend.
It's possible that someone later returned and dumped the purse to make it look like a stanger abduction. Could have been someone she knew or could be the 29 serial murderer is still on the loose.
How stupid are you people that are talking about mushrooms??? Hallucinatory mushrooms do not grow naturally anymore. The feed that used to be given to cows was what made them grow. That type of feed has not been used in 20 years. In order to grow those types of mushrooms, you would have to do it illegally in your home with a spore kit. Good lord, some people are willing to bring drugs into everything!
ANOTHER THING.... Stop blaming the arena. It's useless. Policies are put into place regardless if you agree with them or not. She was a grown woman who was able to read. There are signs ALL OVER THE PLACE that there is no re-entry. Security even tells you that when you start to leave, it's also printed on tickets. There is no lawsuit here, it's nonsense.
I think people want someone else to blame because the thought of Morgan putting herself in a bad situation is too much for them to handle right now. They want to blame someone else. It isn't the arena's fault. They have rules in place for a reason and she didn't follow them. They need to really hound her friends and find out the REAL reason she went outside without her ticket. There were bathrooms and smoking areas inside the arena. There wasn't any reason for her to go outside unless it was to leave or meet someone. Why did her friend drive her car & have her keys in the first place?
How stupid...your post is. She had a head injury as reported above and was confused and cold with no car keys and did not receive medical attention at the arena. UVA needs to take a hard look in the mirror in this one.
A horrible and tragic event has happened here but JPJ or UVa is in no way responsible for Morgan's death. They have policies and rules. Anybody attending any event learns them quickly if they try to leave.
Arpal- don't let them get to you. They are people who point fingers and blame and don't take any responsibility for their own actions. They will never see the other view. I'm sure when their own kids get into trouble it's always someone else's fault too. This is a sad story, but in the end - we are all responsible for ourselves. If this had been a 5 year old at a daycare - SURE. But at the end of the day, we can not blame a corporation for a murder that an individual committed and we can't blame the corporation for a series of misjudgements made by the victim and her friends. Why all this hatred toward the arena staff and nothing about her ACTUAL FRIENDS? They had more of a responsibility to her than the arena staff.
JC - UVA can't pay their employees a living wage and you want them to put up reward money? Come on.
HOW STUPID, you really ought to do some basic research before you spout this sort of ignorance-
"How stupid are you people that are talking about mushrooms??? Hallucinatory mushrooms do not grow naturally anymore. The feed that used to be given to cows was what made them grow. That type of feed has not been used in 20 years. In order to grow those types of mushrooms, you would have to do it illegally in your home with a spore kit"
You are seriously mistaken about psychedelic mushrooms. The best known variety usually grows on dead grass in the wild. The cow droppings kill the grass and may provide the spores. Hallucinogenic mushrooms have been around for millennia and haven't disappeared from the wild, they just aren't known to grow here.
Mushrooms really have nothing at all to do with this topic unless by some unlikely chance Morgan took some before the concert, but ignorance that gets spread through posts like yours has a way of replicating itself.
Bass has no rv lots and leave him out of the mess he has nothing to with her
@travel lite - Sorry for mentioning the landowner in my post if you're referring to my post. Mr XXX is a respected man in the community and well liked. I feel very sorry for him for having discovered the body knowing that he'll have that vision in his mind for the rest of his life.
If someone killed her, they will pay
I would agree, but correct me if I'm wrong, I am under the impression that serial killers and their ilk usually (but not always) act within racial catagories- frequently their own, but even when not, rarely straying in terms of chosen victims? Maybe this has changed recently or I'm just altogether incorrect. I am just as concerned with Cassandra's killers, but I'd be willing to bet Morgan's will be found long before hers are.
To "Just A Thought"
It majes no sense. Does not fit the known-published facts.
Xharlottesville police "Building a case" - lol - not likely.