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HW Community
Did we pass on anything better to Dev Bhoomi in 2016?
SHIMLA- These are some of the pictures taken today morning, on Jan 1, 2016 – first day of the New Year and they clearly depict that the pace of social awakening in our society is too slow to keep up with the modern civilization.
In 2016, public and private transport is still seen choking the city in vehicular emissions. The Municipal Corporation's sanitation workers and public are adding to already polluted air by burning garbage including plastic in open instead of collecting and transporting it to a solid waste treatment facility, which Shimla doesn't have. Those cab owners near Sanjuali are neither aware nor care about health and ecological hazard of burning tyres. There is no excuse to burn plastic and rubber like that. Dev Bhoomi, especially crowded cities like Shimla are in no position to compromise with air pollution.
Very basic facilities, such as safe and maintained footpaths didn't see any improvement in 2015 as well and were passed on to public in the same condition in 2016. For last three-four years, HPPWD couldn't build even a single rain-shelter or public toilet some of the most crowded bus stoppages, like at the Shimla bypass crossing and the MLA stoppage.
Like every passing year, this year, too, passed and people gave it a rocking farewell on the New Year Eve. Every year, we wish people will adopt better attitude in their life-styles, will be more responsible for preserving the ecology and beauty of Dev Bhoomi. We wish for more awareness of and respect toward one's civic duties. We need to learn that, when in public spaces, common interest of the society must be at the top of our priority list. We hope that 2016 will have something better to pass on to 2017.
HW Community
Himachal Pradesh: A Report on 'Plight of Migrant Workers' during the Lockdown & Need for Protection of their Rights
Shimla-Poor people like migrant labourers and workers are nothing more than insects for the governments in India. The attitude of the government and its treatment of the poor workers, who had migrated to other states in search of livelihood, during the lockdown is a very clear evidence of it. What is more pathetic is the fact that that their plight remained invisible to the remaining public as mainstreamed media was being paid more by their political masters for diverting public attention from real issues to rubbish, spicy news. Our society is rotten to such an extent that public also preferred the rubbish served by the media over the bitter truth. Except for a small section of people including social activists, volunteers and non-profit-organizations actually worked to provide some relief like ration to the poor. Spare some time to go through a report on the plight of the migrant workers prepared by the Himachal Pradesh Workers Solidarity (HPWS) – a voluntary solidarity platform.
The first day of Lok Sabha's monsoon session earlier this week saw MPs raising questions about the condition of Migrant Workers during the lockdown. The response of the Labour Minister that no data on migrant deaths for the period was available has drawn much flak. Additionally, no data on return of migrant workers was available for many states including Himachal Pradesh.
The issue of invisibilisation of migrant workers in a state like Himachal Pradesh has now been raised in a report, highlighting the impacts of the ongoing crisis on this community which contributes significantly to the state economy. Himachal Pradesh Workers Solidarity (HPWS) – a voluntary solidarity platform formed in April 2020, in its report, describes the havoc that a sudden, un- facilitated and unplanned national lockdown announced in response to the COVID19 pandemic six months ago had on the interstate migrant workers stranded in Himachal. HPWS ran a helpline during the period, provided assistance in accessing ration and other relief, travel to home states, through administrative coordination, registrations, and information dissemination etc.
Himachal, in the context of migration, is different from neighbouring Uttarakhand, where the rate of migration out of state is higher, whereas in Himachal the rate of in-migration is slightly higher than out-migration.
Gagandeep, a journalist based in Karsog and part of HPWS, elaborates,
"Post the decade of 1980 -90, expansion of industrial activities in the Shivalik hill region, multi-level infrastructure and development projects, growing local interests in horticulture, and cash crop farming alongside tourism-dependent economy made Himachal an emerging centre for in-migration."
Today, workers from Uttar Pradesh, Bihar, Nepal, Uttarakhand, Jharkhand, Chhattisgarh, Rajasthan, and Kashmir constitute a large chunk of the migrant population in Himachal. Most of them are from Scheduled Caste, OBC, STs and minority communities. Difficult work areas and geography, insecure and unsafe living conditions, along with payment and other labour law violations, makes the situation even more difficult for them in mountain state like Himachal.
While the 2011 Census suggests that Himachal had approximately 3.10 lakhs migrant workers, this figure seems to be severely under-estimated due to lack of registration (under the Inter-State Workmen Act 1979), non-maintenance of data by State Labour Department and non-publication of all statistics of Census. The lack of data further worsened the pandemic crisis and impacted relief facilitation.
In response to the issues, the focus of the State was limited to distributing ration but ration alone was not enough for survival and sustenance. Ritika Thakur, another member of HPWS elaborates,
"Having some cash in hand was an urgent need to access gas cylinders, milk, medicines and other essential things like phone recharge, so that workers can at least call for support. Most of the people who contacted HPWS", she adds, "had not been paid their wages and their savings had died out in payment of room rents and ration as loans and debts kept on piling up."
Many migrant labourers complained about the interrogatory, apathetic and discriminatory attitude of the officials when they were called for ration support. Seeing no transport facility forthcoming, many workers were forced to walk back home on foot. When caught at borders they were put into quarantine centres forced to return or were left with no choice but to escape on foot.
"The online registration mechanism was completely inaccessible for workers and for weeks there was no response to registrations",
according to Sukhdev Vishwapremi, a social activist and member of HPWS.
The first 'shramik train' ran as late as May 22, 2020.
"The government, meanwhile, allowed private bus operators to run on exorbitant prices,"
he adds.
Many workers were pushed to take loans or sell property/artefacts to be able to return home through these buses while 5000 HRTC buses remained standing in bus stands.
"The fact that the Central government shifted the burden of facilitating transport on the states without any significant co-ordination and clarity made matters worse, aided by lack of coordination and communication between nodal officers, both between Himachal and other states and within Himachal",
Vishwapremi emphasized further.
According to the information shared by an officer from Himachal Pradesh Government (SDMA), 94,819 migrants had gone out from Himachal to various states of the country by June 23, 2020. As per the information received from SDMA under RTI, 14 shramik trains ferried around 13,183 people out of the state.
Himshi Singh from HPWS reminds, "more than 80% of the migrants took the road on their own expense in which the government merely provided e-passes for private transportation, and the number of people who walked on foot is not yet known."
Adding further she remarks,
"It's tragic that in the midst of this crisis, FIRs were registered against reporters who did stories on migrant worker's condition and on the other hand no action was taken against fake news or media who communalised the issue leading to violence on minority communities like the migrant workers from Kashmir".
The report highlights how Himachal was one of the 12 states who made major dilutions in labour laws in favour of companies and 'ease of doing business'.
Almost five months have passed living with this epidemic and even as the success and failure of the lockdown are debated- the economy is falling in doldrums and our governments seem inconsistent and directionless. As per the estimate by ILO, 400 million informal workers in India will fall to critical levels of poverty than ever before- a situation that demands urgent cognizance, state accountability and a responsible approach.
In this regard, HPWS in this report has made the following recommendations for the State:
- Release in the public domain all the information about relief/support provided to migrant workers
- A joint task force be set to bring out a comprehensive report on the conditions and needs of migrant labourers in the state within 6 months
- Provide universal Access to Ration, Economic and other Relief Facilities
- Housing facilities for Migrant workers who have been living in Himachal and hostel facilities for seasonal labour
- Housing facilities for Migrant workers who have been living in Himachal and hostel facilities for seasonal labour
- Compliance of SC/HC orders-setting up helpdesk/grievance redressal centres at Panchayat, Block, Tehsil and District levels and conducting employment and skill-based survey of the migrant workers who have returned from other states
- Dilution in labour laws be withdrawn and all changes scrapped and strengthening the time-bound 'Grievance Redressal' system and Labour Courts Mandate the registration of all migrant labourers working in the state under ISWMA 1979
HPWS will be submitting the report to various state and central agencies for further advocacy and hopes that the HP Government will take adequate measures to protect the interests of the migrant worker communities in the state.
Read Complete Report
Feature Photo: Sumit Mahar, Volunteer HPWS
HW Community
Amid Surge in COVID-19 Cases in Himachal, Speculation of Complete Lockdown Gains Momentum
Shimla-The number of COVID-19 cases is rising at an alarming rate in Himachal Pradesh as for the past five consecutive days, the state had been reporting nearly 100 cases per day. With Monday's 95 new cases, the tally for the state jumped to 2270. The number of active cases has crossed the 1000 mark to reach 1025 on Monday. So far, 1216 patients have recovered while 12 of them succumbed to COVID-19 infection.
Among Monday's cases, Sirmaur district reported the highest 31 cases from Govindgarh (mohalla) locality in Nahan. Complete lockdown of two days was imposed in this area but the spurt in cases continues. Fifteen new cases were reported from Baddi and Parwanoo in Solan district while remaining cases were reported from Bilaspur (11), Mandi (10), Kangra (16), Shimla (5), Una (2), Hamirpur (1), and Chamba (3).
In Shimla, five family members of a policeman, who had tested positive a couple of days ago, also tested positive.
HP Health Department's COVID-19 Bulletin July 27, 2020 (9PM)
Some leaders of the ruling party (BJP) continue to invite criticism for behaving irresponsibly. The government itself is not learning any lesson from the situation in Govindgarh- a hot spot where the outbreak was triggered due to a marriage ceremony.
On Monday, the opposition Congress filed a police complaint against three persons including a BJP leader for violating rules by roaming around and meeting a large number of people instead of placing themselves under home-quarantine. The opposition said that samples of these persons were taken after they showed symptoms of the COVID-19 infection. Still, these persons kept roaming around after giving samples. The opposition has also alleged a discrimination was seen in initiating legal action for violations of social distancing norms. In Spiti, hundreds of tribal women were booked for staging protest against Minister Ram Lal Markanda for not adhering to the resolution passed by the locals regarding mandatory quarantine for all including the residents of the district. Cases have been filed against the opposition Congress too for violating these norms during recent protests.
Earlier, a leader from Mandi had introduced the coronavirus in Chief Minister's office and the State secretariat and infected about two dozen of his contacts including the Advocate General and his family. The leader reportedly visited the IGMC, Shimla, State High Court and other offices.
Now, another ex-MLA from Nadaun and the Vice-Chairman, HRTC, was reported to have met several party workers and even attending an event as the chief guest. Vijay Agnihotri reportedly continued shopping, roaming around, and meeting people after giving a sample. Reportedly, he also attended a marriage ceremony. The district administration would now have a task to trace all his contacts.
At the sametime, the Congress was also seen disregarding the social distancing norms during their recent protests against the hike in bus fare.
Laxity in Organization of and Checking Gathering in Govt Events
While the state government has issued guidelines for attending funerals and marriages, there is hardly any seriousness when it comes to organizing government or the party events. The 'havan' organized in Shimla where hundreds of people had gathered and several party leaders including Chief Minister Jairam Thakur had visited it. The event had invited criticism as the Chief Minister and workers of BJP Mahila Morcha were seen disregarding every social distancing norm.
An employee of HP University also tested positive recently. A few days prior to the confirmation of this case, an event was organized at the varsity on the occasion of the Foundation Day a large number of people including media persons were present.
Amid such a sharp increase in cases, instead of being so lax, the government is supposed to prohibit any such gathering or at least issue guidelines regarding the maximum number of persons allowed to attend such events/functions.
Solan district where the total COVID-19 cases have reached 553 has begun to witness a shortage of health staff. The BBN area is the worst hit and has reported about 80 percent of the total cases in Solan. According to a media report, there are only 10 doctors at the CHC at Nalagarh and six at the Civil hospital, Baddi. There are only 28 nurses.
Amid this panic, the public, especially from Shimla district has been suggesting the imposition of a lockdown and questioning the government over still keeping the border open for tourists. To make thing even worse, there are instances where people violated quarantine rules after their samples were taken or were not monitored properly. In Mandi district's Bagsaid market, a person had opened his meat shop giving a sample. It was after the arrival of his report that the shop was closed.
Further, the online opinion poll of the State Government inviting public opinion over the imposition of a complete lockdown in the state has led to speculations of a possible lockdown from August 1st. The matter regarding a lockdown is expected to be taken up in the Cabinet meeting to be held on July 30. The public is confused and preparing to stock up ration/essentials or planning to leave for villages. Several readers have also been writing to Himachal Watcher to inquire about the possibility of imposition of a complete lockdown.
HW Community
First Open for Tourism, Then Train Staff, HP Govt Goes Topsy Turvy
Shimla- In the last week, the Himachal state government has taken decisions that could have a long-lasting impact on citizens without consulting or even informing all stakeholders.
First, it came out with guidelines for tourism that did not have any inputs from the tourism industry. Second, it decided to open the state for tourism without consulting hotel and travel industry or keeping village pradhans in the loop.Six days after the decision to allow tourist activity and opening State borders for tourists, the state government of HP has decided to train people employed with the industry.
"Online training for the Hospitality sector would also be held in wake of COVID-19. About 10,000 candidates would be provided one-day training on hygiene and sanitation procedures. Three weeks training on basic essential of a tourist guide communication skill etc. would be provided to about four hundred candidates,"
said Chief Minister Jairam Thakur in a review meeting with Tourism Industry officials on 8th July. It's surprising that the Government did not find the time to either have this '1 day training' program ready or train the staff of hotels and restaurants before throwing open state borders for tourists. The government gave no time to the hotel industry to understand, prepare and implement directions given in the issued SOPs.
Major Hotel Associations have already decided to keep hotels closed at least till September and Village Pradhans have also refused to allow tourists into their jurisdiction. The Chief Minister said that the State Government is following the lead of states such as Uttarakhand, Rajasthan, Goa, Kerala etc. where the Governments have decided to open the State for tourists.
To enter Himachal Pradesh, tourists have to meet three conditions, a valid booking for at least five days, a COVID-19 test report from an Indian Council of Medical Research (ICMR) certified laboratory not older than 72 hours and their vehicle should have a sanitisation certificate.
About 600 tourists have already entered Kangra district. Police arrested a couple in Kangra district who managed to enter the State by furnishing a fake COVID-19 negative report.
"A case was registered at Damtal police station against a couple who entered HP from Bhadroya barrier based on fake COVID Negative test report. Legal action is being initiated against them for cheating, fraud & forgery. They are currently lodged in an institutional quarantine facility at Parour,"
SP, Kangra, Vimukt Ranjan, said confirming the report. In another case in Kullu, five tourists, who managed to enter the State and reach Bajaura barrier in Kullu, were detained for not carrying required documents. A total of 12 tourists have been allowed in to Kullu district after they met the three conditions needed for tourists.
According to Kullu district police, about 70 tourists from Punjab, Haryana, Chandigarh, Rajasthan, Telangana, Uttar Pradesh etc. were sent back for not fulfilling conditions prescribed by the State Government. Tourists who should be sent back for a lack of required documents and fulfilling conditions given in the SOPs issued by the State Government are able to cross barriers at borders, like Parwanoo and Swarghat.
Police manning barricades are also frontline staff who are at risk.
We have provided police who are manning the barricades with N95 masks, raincoats that will serve a double purpose for rain and COVID protection and long gloves, policemen over the age of 50 years and those with existing conditions are not deployed at barricades,
said DSP, Kullu, Priyank Gupta.
While the majority of the hospitality industry players, (which is worst hit by the loss of business), is against opening the State for tourism, there are some, especially those who have leased hotels and taken loans who want to open for tourism. However, until the state government takes steps to add healthcare facilities and make more dedicated COVID hospital wards especially in rural areas, large scale tourism could endanger locals.
Mandi Greenfield Airport: HP Govt to Acquire upto 3150 Mts Land for Phase-II
1802 Job Opportunities for Those Who Returned to State Due to COVID-19: HPKVN
Himachal: Education Minister, 22 Teachers in Three Schools, SDM Test Positive for COVID-19
Nauni Varsity COH&F to Prepare 'Peoples Biodiversity Registers'
Jio TV Launches Three new Channels in Himachal for Elementary, Higher and Vocational Education
Shocker for Himachal as Ex-CBI Chief & Governor Ashwani Kumar Found Dead at His Shimla Residence
Rohtang Tunnel-World's Longest Highway Tunnel-Commissioned, First Bus Flagged-Off
Seven New Deaths Including an 18-Year-Old in a Day, 29 in Five Days, Official COVID-19 Death Tally Reaches 219
COVID-19 Death Toll in Himachal Goes Beyond 200 With 10 New Fatalities
Misc News/Press Release2 months ago
Night Bus Services in Himachal to Start Operating from Today on These Routes
Misc News/Press Release1 month ago
Five More COVID-19 Deaths, Three Suicides, Shimla's Kotkhai Nagar Panchayat Sealed
Misc News/Press Release2 months ago
Himachal: 316 News Cases with Three Deaths, Shimla in Community Spread Phase
Campus Watch1 month ago
UHF Nauni Bags Rs.25 Crore Funding, Set for Major Overhaul
Misc News/Press Release2 months ago
Himachal Enters Community Spread Phase, Rise in Mortality Rate Worrisome: Govt
Misc News/Press Release2 months ago
Opening of Temples/Religious Places in Himachal: Read All Dos and Don'ts
Misc News/Press Release1 month ago
Himachal: 10 COVID-19 Deaths in Single Day Take Tally to 145, DDU MS Replaced Following Patient Suicide
Misc News/Press Release3 weeks ago
Shocker for Himachal as Ex-CBI Chief & Governor Ashwani Kumar Found Dead at His Shimla Residence


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The investment chestnut "Sell in May and go away" was the basis for a webinar conducted on Wednesday by S&P Capital IQ, and its premise offered a glimpse into where one might choose to go in a market that offers both choice and challenge.
Sam Stovall (left), S&P Capital IQ chief equity strategist, pointed out that while the S&P 500 offered slim returns from the period of May through October, averaging 1.2% as calculated from April 30, 1945, through April 24, 2012, during those same years it averaged a return of 6.9% for the months of November through April. Hence, leaving the S&P in May and returning in November does seem to have a basis in fact.
However, Stovall then turned to market sectors to identify where one might seek returns rather than parking investment money in cash for six months of the year. Focusing on consumer staples and health care, he pointed out that from April 30, 1990, through April 24, 2012, the former gained 4.7% and the latter 4.3%, compared with the average semiannual return of the S&P 500 for the same period of only 0.9%.
Investors engaging in a twice-yearly rotation in and out of the S&P 500 and individual sectors could, he said, boost returns substantially, calculated on price only. If an investor stayed in the S&P 500 all year during the period of 4/30/90–4/24/12, he could have had a hypothetical compound annual growth rate of 6.7%. If on the other hand in May the same investor moved into a portfolio of 50% consumer staples and 50% health care, moving back to 100% S&P in November, the return could have been 10.7%.
Todd Rosenbluth, S&P Capital IQ ETF analyst, then addressed ETFs, providing insight into how they are constructed and ranked. Ranking, he explained, was based on three factors: performance analytics, risk considerations and cost factors. This allows an ETF to be ranked not just on its holdings but also its characteristics relative to peers.
Jeffrey Loo, S&P Capital IQ health care equity analyst, addressed some of the issues before the health care industry that are expected to affect holdings. As a defensive sector with underperformance in the pharmaceutical area, the sector offers opportunities, said Loo, as well as some challenges.
Many of the challenges come from the pharmaceutical sector, hence the underperformance; that area is about to go off a "patent cliff," with a substantial number of high-return products either just off patent or due to go off patent in 2012.
But if pharmaceuticals are ranked neutral, health care services and health care supplies are among the best returning subindustries in the sector. The former returned 16.7% year to date and the latter 20.1% year to date.
The fact that health care reform is before the Supreme Court offers some uncertainties, but there is also the potential for a positive outcome for the sector—particularly if the individual mandate is upheld. That could result in a rise in insurance coverage, as well as boosting facilities, services, equipment and managed care among the subindustries in the sector.
Should the law be overturned or the individual mandate thrown out, the effects would be neutral to negative. Loo added that it is doubtful that the worst-case scenario (invalidation of the individual mandate) has been priced in, but while some subindustries may suffer, he added that "health care lobbyists and lawyers have formulated strategies … and will press forward with litigation to overturn or rescind some of the new regulations that would be adverse to them."

subset: commoncrawl


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XLRI PGP-CEM Admissions 2013
XLRI PGP-CEM Admissions 2013
XLRI Jamshedpur invites application for Post Graduate Programme for Certificate in Entrepreneurship Management-PGPCEM 2013-2014
PGP-CEM has been designed to provide competency-based education to the eligible candidates with a view to promoting entrepreneurship in Jharkhand and rest of the country. The programme will be pursued in such a manner as to encourage critical and lateral thinking and integrate theory with practice.
Eligibility : Graduation from a recognized University,computer literacy and inclination for entrepreneurship
Pedagogy :
* The modus operandi adopted for achieving the above objective consists of
* Class lectures, which may draw upon Indian and global cases wherever necessary.
* Individual and group assignments,
* Project formulation exercise to be carried out under the mentorship of a member of the faculty.
Programme Fees : Programme fee has been fixed at Rs 60,000, along with a sum of Rs 12,000 for books & other reading materials, will be payable in two equal installments. Hostel fees including board charges are expected to be around Rs 45,000 for the entire period of the programme (subject to change if required by general price level). Service Tax (and Education Cess) etc. are payable as per extant rules of the Government (currently @12.36%).
For online registration and detailed information visit www.xlri.ac.in/edc
For more information visit : http://www.xlri.ac.in/


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This Forum has been archivedVisit Discussions
|Forums: Index → Narutopedia Discussion → Solution Time: Images
Ok now I'm pissed. This is going to go on forever and will not end. I will start simply purging articles where there are image disputes (both past and present) if I must for us to get this shit down. I'm tired, you are tired. Everyone is tired. Nobody wants to compromise, this has been going on in the same dance for months.
We are going to solve this so both sides legitimately agree on. Not some grudgingly accepting of one side as "the best choice" no we did that before and we're still going through this. We are going to stop moving and pick a way that will solve everyone.--TheUltimate3 ~Keeper of Lore~ 14:02, March 31, 2011 (UTC)
- With that said...what are you proposing? You could've at least given us options... --Cerez™☺ 14:04, March 31, 2011 (UTC)
- I've had my solution and have been proposing it for months. Tabbing system or a dual images in the infobox. Both of which I lack the know-how to do unfortunately.--TheUltimate3 ~Keeper of Lore~ 14:07, March 31, 2011 (UTC)
Sorry to point it out, but i recall that for some reason are the tabbing system not really working on this wikia(the dual images in the jutsu infoboxes). --Gojita (talk) 14:10, March 31, 2011 (UTC)Gojita
- Then we figure out how to make it work or we figure some other solution because our current situation ain't workin.--TheUltimate3 ~Keeper of Lore~ 14:11, March 31, 2011 (UTC)
- I support you TU3!!!! Dual images in the infobox is a good system and actually it will satisfy both sides of discussion!!!! The smaller images (usually the anime ones) on top and manga ones on bottom! (just saying) ... and if this can't happen! Well, as i said with Roshi! "Roshi's anime image is good, it only shows one side of his face! On the other hand the manga pic shows a 3/4 of his face! So may be the anime one could replace the other one in his appereance section!! The manga pic should stay on the infobox!" Fu's and Yagura's pics are really good!!!! No differences for me!!! Put those images in their infobox and the manga pics in the appereance section since they show more their bodies... i think! --Kiba91 (talk) 14:12, March 31, 2011 (UTC)
I suppose I'll say my piece then I absolutely hate image stacking in the infoboxes. That said I have no problem with either type of image but I do have a preference for manga images when usable (even though we don't get cheques >_>) As long as the anime image is an accurate depiction of the manga character (ie no major deviations from Kishimoto's work). It won't kill us to have variety on here. --Cerez™☺ 14:12, March 31, 2011 (UTC)
- but now that you are talking about stacking images... the difference you are talking from Kishimoto's work and anime's work are in a majority about the eyes... referring to Konan's color eyes... while someone stacks her images... what happen to Kurotsuchi's and and Hanzo's pics? They differ only because of the color! C's manga pic was left because of the form of the eyes!... so what are the "facts" that everyone is considering to left the manga pic instead of the anime pic? --Kiba91 (talk) 14:18, March 31, 2011 (UTC)
- Ehh, the reason for hanzo's image is because while there is no differences between the irishes the eye itself is white in the anime, whille in the manga it is black like kakuzu's. On to the main subject. The problem appears to be that some users think we should use absolut accuracy and can't ignore small details, like colour variation. --Gojita (talk) 14:21, March 31, 2011 (UTC)Gojita
- Stacking is a crude method that can potentially be refined. It's an option, one I'm willing to take. However, this is not a discussion on the differences between the two images, this is a discussion on how to use both of them.--TheUltimate3 ~Keeper of Lore~ 14:23, March 31, 2011 (UTC)
The it's simple. We're supposed to aim for accuracy. And this is pretty much what we're doing now...
- Manga image used first anime image used later when animated.
- If there's a coloured manga image then it's moved to the "appearance" section once there is no discrepancy with the anime image.
- If there are, then the revere is done. --Cerez™☺ 14:30, March 31, 2011 (UTC)
- i gave that just as an exemple! We're trying to reach a solution for this eternal battle from Anime and Manga pics! I never said to ignore details! (Just what happen to Ko's case!that's smth where the manga pic should have totally preference) But color eyes i think is just a detail! as you said... a small one!... anywho, i support TU3's option of dual images. Or at least we need to solve what will happen to the jinchurikis and the bijus! --Kiba91 (talk) 14:27, March 31, 2011 (UTC)
Alright, trying not to be rude here. But i believe you orignally wanted to discuss the dispute about which image to choose and then in your next comment suggested that we somehow use both. Thus i conclude the tophic is how to settle the dispute, not how to use both. I say this because in this discussion and the previous one, we already agreed on the fact that stacking is something most of us dislike. Once again, sorry i am not trying to be rude. --Gojita (talk) 14:31, March 31, 2011 (UTC)Gojita
- you're not being rude!!! but the stacking image is a solution to satisfie everyone in here! I'm just supporting TU3 suggestion! that's all --Kiba91 (talk) 14:34, March 31, 2011 (UTC)
It was for this reason I told Ulti-chan to give the discussion guidelines....--Cerez™☺ 14:35, March 31, 2011 (UTC)
Eh... a little bit of tophic, but seeing how this affect the entire wikia and seeing how vast amount of contibutors we have, i would like to suggest that we somehow advertise this tophic other places on the wikia in the hopes that more poeple would voice thier opinion. --Gojita (talk) 14:38, March 31, 2011 (UTC)Gojita
- Unless I typed it wrong, the solution I outlined was indeed ment to use both which would settle the dispute. As I originally said, this discussion is not about choosing one or the other <stops typing to read Roshi's talk page> Ah that is where I said it. I didn't post it here apparently. When I said that will serve everyone, that is exactly what I ment. One side wants to use manga no matter what. Use manga no matter what. The other wants to use anime, thats fine we're going to use that too. Don't apologize, you just pointed out that I didn't say everything I ment in one place.--TheUltimate3 ~Keeper of Lore~ 14:39, March 31, 2011 (UTC)
- Also, I would prefer if others at the very least tried to come up with wildly different solutions or something, so this is less of a "TU3 trying to shoehorn a massive change to the Wiki" and more of a "The community has decided they want to end this war" type of deal.--TheUltimate3 ~Keeper of Lore~ 14:41, March 31, 2011 (UTC)
- Well, we could simply use whichever one is the most high quality.
- Also, I would prefer if others at the very least tried to come up with wildly different solutions or something, so this is less of a "TU3 trying to shoehorn a massive change to the Wiki" and more of a "The community has decided they want to end this war" type of deal.--TheUltimate3 ~Keeper of Lore~ 14:41, March 31, 2011 (UTC)
Or, we could use the manga image in the infobox and have the anime picture in the appearance section.Ryne 91 (talk) 14:43, March 31, 2011 (UTC)
- @Gojita: I've been trying to edit the News Bar for months. But I get the feeling I'm not a high enough admin to edit it.
- @Ryne: That is what we are already doing. This is the result.--TheUltimate3 ~Keeper of Lore~ 14:45, March 31, 2011 (UTC)
- @Gojita: If it isn't completely obvious, I'm a complete noob with Wikia code.--TheUltimate3 ~Keeper of Lore~ 14:47, March 31, 2011 (UTC)
Another solution as pointed out by Cerez™ is that we stop this(i can't put it more delicate due to my own opinions and how far this have come) crusade against images that are not complete and perfect copies of Kishi's work and i am going to be verry blunt now. I am not that much better myself, but currently we only have a few users who staunchly removes all anime images when there is the slightest difference while most of the community adds the animated versions when they arrive. I mean look at the upload logs everytime a new episode airs. Look at how everyone gladly adds images of the raikage, even though his hair is not as bleached as Kishimoto's one single colour drawing of him. And the same with Fu and Torune, despite the fact that Fu's nose is not the correct size and Torun'es hair looks different. And i can go on(thank god i am not using my voice for this, or i would have a sour throat by now) and i am sorry for voicing my opinion this way, but it is one the last methods i have yet to use --Gojita (talk) 14:55, March 31, 2011 (UTC)Gojita
- Yes, give into your anger. It makes you stronger. Dark Side, Dark Side, Daaaaaaaark Siiiiiiiiiiide. /Palpatine....couldn't resist. (SWTOR is going to pwn so hard)
- That said, yes I am aware that there is gap between who prefer manga images over anime images is large. Thankfully this isn't a democracy, so the majority rule doesn't apply here. Both sides (usually) have good, reasonable reasons as to why their image should be used. Which is why this discussion can even take place.--TheUltimate3 ~Keeper of Lore~ 14:58, March 31, 2011 (UTC)
Come on we do not need dual images in the infobox.We can have the anime image in the infobox and the manga image in the appearance section of a character page.--Shinobi Master (talk) 15:26, March 31, 2011 (UTC)
- Nice to see that there is also room for humor TU3 :D Now back on tophic. Might i remind people that part of this dispute is also due to the current image rules on this wikia(if i remember correctly they were never changed, right???) To be honest, yes my argument does imply that the majority rules and that we are a democracy, though i tried to lean the argument more towards, "that is how it has always been done on this wikia" and in most discussions about this most people lean towards it, but we are sadly still unable to reach an agreement :(. --Gojita (talk) 15:59, March 31, 2011 (UTC)Gojita
- That is true. We've always have been doing it that way. We have also been dealing with the whole manga vs anime issue, just not as heated. 3 years ago, it more little more than "We prefer manga images" or some such, people would complain, and then that would be the end of it so we never had to sit down and actually discuss things. Now three years later, it is much more heated and here we are.
- @Shinobi Master:We don't need to have images in the infobox period to be honest. However I doubt people would like that very much.
- Also, I have class soon and will be in class until 7ish (my day is quite busy) so when I stop posting, I'll be in class.--TheUltimate3 ~Keeper of Lore~ 16:05, March 31, 2011 (UTC)
- @TheUltimate3, we probably don't need infoboxes but people do prefer them as well as the images.I would just like to stat they are just images not a big deal.If there is a minor difference between the characters appearance in the manga or anime it can be easily noted in the article.We do not need dual images.--Shinobi Master (talk) 16:14, March 31, 2011 (UTC)
It would seem that we are reaching a conclusion(seemingly in favour of using anime images withouth considering the smaller differences) but ShounenSuki have yet to be heard. --Gojita (talk) 16:44, March 31, 2011 (UTC)Gojita
- I don't consider that a conclusion. That would just flip what we have now.--TheUltimate3 ~Keeper of Lore~ 17:10, March 31, 2011 (UTC)
- To elaborate; if this is the "conclusion" then it is just going by what you and I have said earlier, the anime images are preferred more than the manga images, which would turn this into a democracy and all that jazz. As I've said before, there is reasoning behind both which is why we need to find a conclusion for everyone.--TheUltimate3 ~Keeper of Lore~ 17:20, March 31, 2011 (UTC)
- I don't consider that a conclusion. That would just flip what we have now.--TheUltimate3 ~Keeper of Lore~ 17:10, March 31, 2011 (UTC)
Stop the spam
I'm gonna say this once, why is there even a debate? Use the image that is accurate to display the character. Which one is accurate? Obviously one that matches the original artwork in the manga. If you want to use anime images, I'm not going to listen to any crap about consistency with other infobox images or "I <3 anime" and "i need color!". What do I want to see below my comment? Give me a good solid reason why you think we should use an inaccurate image over an accurate image in the first picture a viewer sees when they start reading a characters article and then defend that reason, or try giving me a reason why that picture doesn't need to be accurate. SimAnt 17:29, March 31, 2011 (UTC)
- 1) Why is there a debate?
- Because this constant image changing has been going on for months with no end in sight. I'm tired. You're tired. Everyone is tired. We need to get this done via a compromise, not one side grudgingly accepting the other.
- 2) "Solid Reason for using Inaccurate Image over an Accurate Image"
- Because I'm tired of two sides constantly fighting over it. We use both, no reason to argue. A compromise. Everyone wins.
- 3) "First Picture"
- Actually unsure how this relates to this whole thing.
I know I'm a broken record with this, but I can't stress it enough. We've been holding the manga over the anime for a long time. I get it. However this little war has never stopped. I want it to stop. Clearly just saying "use the manga" hasn't stopped it. And I know "use the anime" will not stop it. We need to compromise here so that everyone will stop fighting over it. (And now as of 1:36PM EST, I am off to class. See you in about 5 or so hours.)--TheUltimate3 ~Keeper of Lore~ 17:36, March 31, 2011 (UTC)
- I say the problem is we aren't doing enough banning for people ignoring the current policy without trying to discuss changes to it with solid logic. SimAnt 17:40, March 31, 2011 (UTC)
- I personally think the current policy is good. We have manga images for the infobox, where appropriate, and we have anime pictures in the rest of the article. Aren't we all winning? Anyways, I second what SimAnt said.Ryne 91 (talk) 17:42, March 31, 2011 (UTC)
- Quite draconian of you. I am all for the banning of vandals and the like, but not so much banning people with legitimate concerns. Regardless the stance you two (well three because I can bet gold that ShounenSuki will come in with a long response in favor of manga as well. Simply a matter of time) will not end this war, nor will a million pointless banning solve it either. Clearly there is a split, a solution that satisfies everyone must be found.
- And because of my desire to see what Simant would say I have 5 mintues to make a 10 minute walk. Joy for me. Now I'll see you guys in so-and-so hours.--TheUltimate3 ~Keeper of Lore~ 17:48, March 31, 2011 (UTC)
- And if we did have a compromise, what then? Write it into the policy page that I was gonna ban people for not reading/obeying? SimAnt 17:54, March 31, 2011 (UTC)
- well, this has turned out to be quite a devate!!! And i think everyone is getting tired! I know here isn't a democracy but may be and just may be, that could be the only solution! (i have to point that i'm not that into the thing of being democratic) but hey guys, if we continue like this, as TU3 said, this war will never end!! But well, that could be just a sally comment from me! Anyway, this discussion is about the "preferences" right? I don't see a big problem to use dual images to satisfie both sides of the discussion... some will see the manga and some will see the anime... as simple as that... those who prefer the anime well, they are going to change and replace all manga pics, no matter what we do... and of cours, those who do the anime will never be able to copy the exact same work as Kishimoto... and this is just going to be an endless cycle... Other solution is (like everyone is saying: if more people prefere the anime pics) well then, let them be and let them put the anime pic on the infoboxes... and if there exist a difference between the anime and manga, put the manga in the appereance section (i would suggest that it could be vise-versa but the war also starts becuz some people doesn't want that option either)... the manga pics will only be in exceptional cases like "Ko Hyuga" where his entire design is completely different or manga pics that never appeared in the anime... that's another option... (personally, i don't have problems with neither the manga or the anime [the anime as long as it is quite similar as Kishi's work or the difference is very little) but well... this is what i could say, what i could think and what i could write... in conclusion... i hardly suggest and recommend to use TU3 dual image option... but that's up to the admis --Kiba91 (talk) 18:06, March 31, 2011 (UTC)
Both w/out stacking
I'm sure Simant has explained this before, but why wouldn't tabs or whatever work? A link to said explanation would be fine.
Would Toggle work if the functionality were enabled for this wiki? Because I was screwing around with it on the One Piece wiki and it doesn't look like it causes a problem in infoboxes (granted, they don't use semantics, which consistently makes x3 unforeseen problems). ~SnapperTo 19:11, March 31, 2011 (UTC)
- As I recall i got "complaints" when I used Template:Infobox/Slideshow, because people couldn't see slideshows in monobook... SimAnt 21:07, March 31, 2011 (UTC)
- Which apparently works now in monobook... thanks staff for the update! /sarcasm. SimAnt 21:21, March 31, 2011 (UTC)
- I'm starting to remember that now. Wasn't there also an issue with the way images can be added to the slideshow?
If so, that seems to have been removed (or I don't remember how to access it).Nevermind; it's still there. But is it still a problem? ~SnapperTo 21:46, March 31, 2011 (UTC)
- (edit conflict x2) I've been dizzy from so much back and forth editing in the recent changes page it took me a while to find this. My opinion is that should there be a dispute on anime vs manga images, we should put both with one of these methods (sldeshow or tab). I see that slide has suddenly become an option. Should that prove to be more difficult than Simant anticipated, I think it's valid to ask for outside help. Joeyaa, who now works for wikia I think, has experience with wiki code, he used to do a lot of code work in the Avatar Wiki, between him and Simant, I think something might come through. Now if that doesn't work out, I'll have to go through a very careful consideration regarding what type of image I prefer, though right now, I think that it should be a case-by-case thing, seeing which image is preferable in each character instance. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:50, March 31, 2011 (UTC)
- I'm starting to remember that now. Wasn't there also an issue with the way images can be added to the slideshow?
- Which apparently works now in monobook... thanks staff for the update! /sarcasm. SimAnt 21:21, March 31, 2011 (UTC)
Bright new day. A new day for continued discussion, or has everyone said their piece and waiting for others to drop in with something new?
- Also, the infoboxes I purged will be unlocked and restored to their original states now, but will be purged again if a war breaks out. Warned everyone has.--TheUltimate3 ~Keeper of Lore~ 11:14, April 1, 2011 (UTC)
- And it would seem the tabbing does indeed work (I haven't noticed) so if we can set it up to the character infoboxes we're golden.--TheUltimate3 ~Keeper of Lore~ 12:54, April 1, 2011 (UTC)
- I believe our crisis, is over.--TheUltimate3 ~Keeper of Lore~ 13:22, April 1, 2011 (UTC)
- Will need some minor editing, as I do not know how to move that Ref point, but we can now put two images in the infobox, both an anime and a manga image. Both sides wins.--TheUltimate3 ~Keeper of Lore~ 13:25, April 1, 2011 (UTC)
- Ok I may have jumped the gun there. Because I somehow broke the on page "edit" button with my tinkering and have thus reverted back to its pre-tinkering form. The point is, it works. Just gotta iron out the issues.--TheUltimate3 ~Keeper of Lore~ 13:27, April 1, 2011 (UTC)
- Will need some minor editing, as I do not know how to move that Ref point, but we can now put two images in the infobox, both an anime and a manga image. Both sides wins.--TheUltimate3 ~Keeper of Lore~ 13:25, April 1, 2011 (UTC)
- I believe our crisis, is over.--TheUltimate3 ~Keeper of Lore~ 13:22, April 1, 2011 (UTC)
- And it would seem the tabbing does indeed work (I haven't noticed) so if we can set it up to the character infoboxes we're golden.--TheUltimate3 ~Keeper of Lore~ 12:54, April 1, 2011 (UTC)
Alright, now the edit button is working, but it is still stacking look Konan --Gojita (talk) 14:19, April 1, 2011 (UTC)Gojita
- That's because I completely reverted it back it's original form. As I said, I jumped the gun and this is going to require some bugfixes before it is really up and running. TheUltimate3 currently in Class. Suck it authority! --22.214.171.124 (talk) 14:50, April 1, 2011 (UTC)
Just a thought: on Memory Alpha they place two pictures in some of the characters infoboxes, one at the top and one at the bottom. Is that something that could work? Jacce | Talk | Contributions 15:25, April 1, 2011 (UTC)
- I think that is the stacking thing we are trying to avoid... --Gojita (talk) 15:34, April 1, 2011 (UTC)Gojita
- Ok so I guess I should explain why I havent worked on the infobox yesterday like i said. Turns out I have my third math exam on monday. As math is by far my worst subject, kinda preoccupied. Deepest apologizes.--TheUltimate3 ~Keeper of Lore~ 11:00, April 2, 2011 (UTC)
- now that we got that semi-out of the way, i'm gonna say manga images first in the slideshow. ^.^ SimAnt 20:42, April 2, 2011 (UTC)
- Awesome job SimAnt, I already started on that manga images first decor~. --Cerez™☺ 20:45, April 2, 2011 (UTC)
- finally! well, i would suggest, if the anime pic is quite good and similar to kishi's good, it should be the first... if it has a lot of differences, well then, the manga pic first! :P --Kiba91 (talk) 20:46, April 2, 2011 (UTC)
- @Cerez... i didn't new you speak spanish xD --Kiba91 (talk) 20:46, April 2, 2011 (UTC)
- Manga first, not that it really matters now, I guess - they do switch like every 5 seconds. And good work on this slideshow business ^_^ ~ Fmakck© → Talk → Contributions ~ 20:48, April 2, 2011 (UTC)
- i'm still tinkering with the css which i suck at to make the borders and stupid features go away. SimAnt 20:57, April 2, 2011 (UTC)
- Forgot to ask, will it be done to the tool pages as well?--Cerez™☺ 21:13, April 2, 2011 (UTC)
- I just wish the quality of some images won't go down 'cause of the slideshows. ~ Fmakck© → Talk → Contributions ~ 21:16, April 2, 2011 (UTC)
- Forgot to ask, will it be done to the tool pages as well?--Cerez™☺ 21:13, April 2, 2011 (UTC)
Just going to ask about one thing. It looks good and all, besides the borders. But could you at least make it so that can people can choose for themselves which image they wish to view instead of the constant changing??? --Gojita (talk) 11:37, April 3, 2011 (UTC)Gojita
- I am starting to see this slideshow as a bad thing, seeing how many of the images are being sized down way to much. --Gojita (talk) 12:14, April 3, 2011 (UTC)Gojita
- Is it possible for the slideshow to switch to portrait mode if there is one or two images in the portrait format? ~ Fmakck© → Talk → Contributions ~ 12:18, April 3, 2011 (UTC)
- If you don't see it here then it is not possible with this slideshow. SimAnt 16:22, April 5, 2011 (UTC)
- I don't see how this slideshow could be a problem. Just like any other system that is implemented it takes time to develop and such. I'm sure that if it can be improved it will. Stop harbour sharking the thing --Cerez™☺ 16:59, April 5, 2011 (UTC)
- If you don't see it here then it is not possible with this slideshow. SimAnt 16:22, April 5, 2011 (UTC)
- Is it possible for the slideshow to switch to portrait mode if there is one or two images in the portrait format? ~ Fmakck© → Talk → Contributions ~ 12:18, April 3, 2011 (UTC)
Other possible use
Now that it's possible to use slides in infoboxes, there also another possibility for us to use it. We could use those to add part I and part II images in infoboxes, or for characters that have changed significantly. I'm fine with the current "show them as they were first shown" policy, but should noise be made over putting images like those in infoboxes (like part II images, Madara's old look, Kabuto's new look), this would be a way to settle it, and it would help to remove some clutter for pages that have those images in appearances section. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:01, April 3, 2011 (UTC)
- agreed! :) --Kiba91 (talk) 00:03, April 3, 2011 (UTC)
- Disagree on both. --Gojita (talk) 11:36, April 3, 2011 (UTC)Gojita
- I thought this discussion was about image use in all the infoboxes, in which everyone didn't want multiple images on top of each other. SimAnt 16:22, April 5, 2011 (UTC)
- I'd actually like to see Madara+mask and a mask-less Madara in the infobox. Not sure about the Kabuto's new look. ~ Fmakck© → Talk → Contributions ~ 12:19, April 3, 2011 (UTC)
Since I am still being complained to... Infobox:Konan SimAnt 18:40, April 5, 2011 (UTC)
- iLike. I suppose this will end the complaints of quality being "lost"--Cerez™☺ 18:45, April 5, 2011 (UTC)
- Okay, I like that even more than the slideshow. The applications of those tabs are quite great in number. Theoretically, Part 1 and Part 2 tabs could easily be added.Ryne 91 (talk) 18:57, April 5, 2011 (UTC)
- Nice~ That was actually what I was suggesting all the way in the beginning of the manga vs anime image war. —ShounenSuki (talk | contribs | translations) 19:20, April 5, 2011 (UTC)
- And that was the stance I have been on since this whole war started. Though I will say images should remain Part I, as to avoid unnecessary clutter from 4 tabs in the infobox. Either way, this pretty much settles the Image War.--TheUltimate3 ~Keeper of Lore~ 19:45, April 5, 2011 (UTC)
- I wasn't actually saying that we "should" have tabs for Part 1 and Part 2, though we "could." And why would we have four tabs in any infobox, even if we did do that? The only ones that really changed their appearances in Part 2 were the Konoha 11 (plus Sasuke) and the Sand Siblings. The only one of those that really looks any different in the anime than in the manga, as far as I know, is Ino, and that's just because of her eye color.
- But again, I don't mean to imply that I think we should do this. Do it or not, I don't really care. I was just saying that it is possible.Ryne 91 (talk) 19:50, April 5, 2011 (UTC)
- And that was the stance I have been on since this whole war started. Though I will say images should remain Part I, as to avoid unnecessary clutter from 4 tabs in the infobox. Either way, this pretty much settles the Image War.--TheUltimate3 ~Keeper of Lore~ 19:45, April 5, 2011 (UTC)
- Nice~ That was actually what I was suggesting all the way in the beginning of the manga vs anime image war. —ShounenSuki (talk | contribs | translations) 19:20, April 5, 2011 (UTC)
- Okay, I like that even more than the slideshow. The applications of those tabs are quite great in number. Theoretically, Part 1 and Part 2 tabs could easily be added.Ryne 91 (talk) 18:57, April 5, 2011 (UTC)
I said four because now that the tabbing works, ideally, we can go with Part I/Original Appearance Manga image, Part I/Original Appearance Anime image for the characters. Adding Part II to that would mean 2 more tabs.--TheUltimate3 ~Keeper of Lore~ 19:56, April 5, 2011 (UTC)
- I should note that I am against using the tabber on jutsu pages. I only expect it to be used for Anime vs. Manga on character pages. SimAnt 20:42, April 5, 2011 (UTC)
- I'm all for the tabber and all but now we have the problem of ilikeanimesotheanimeimageisfirst. SimAnt 22:28, April 5, 2011 (UTC)


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