text:
Paul Beckett
By Krishna Pokharel and Paul Beckett
December 5, 2012
In the 1980s, the Ayodhya dispute escalated from a local issue to a national one. It fed, and was fed by, other points of tension in Indian politics and society that set Hindus and Muslims on a collision course over the span of the decade.
Each side came to feel that its religion and status in India was under threat – and both sides responded with political pressure and shows of force.
It started in 1981 in Meenakshipuram, an unremarkable village deep in the countryside of the southern state of Tamil Nadu, more than 2,000 kilometres from Ayodhya.
The village hit the national news when its low-caste Hindus – about 400 families, villagers say — converted, en masse, to Islam.
"We became Muslims to become equal," said 65-year-old N. Hidayathullah, one of the converts, in an interview on the porch of his modest home, as a herd of goats wandered by.
The families had felt ill-treated by local upper-caste Hindus, he said. "Nobody told us to convert; it was our desire to be treated with respect," he added.
At stake was more than belief: In India, how you worship defines your community, most likely your marriage and whom you vote for, your approach to life, and your identity.
In 1984, Hindu leaders responded to what they viewed as the threat of Islam emanating from the Meenakshipuram conversion.
About 500 Sadhus — Hindu holy men — from across India gathered at Vigyan Bhavan, a government-owned conference centre in New Delhi. They comprised a "dharma Sansad," or religious parliament.
The meeting was put together by the Vishwa Hindu Parishad, a conservative Hindu organization founded in the 1960s. The chief organizer was Ashok Singhal, then the VHP's joint general secretary.
The son of a government official in Agra, home of the Taj Mahal, Mr. Singhal graduated with a degree in metallurgical engineering from Banaras Hindu University in 1950. Now 86 years old, he has worked to promote Hindu causes ever since. "Our culture is under siege," he said in an interview at the VHP's offices in New Delhi.
The religious parliament began with a song by a group of musicians. "This country's soil is sacred," they sang, according to a later account of the event published by the VHP. "Every girl is an image of a goddess, every boy is Ram."
After a Sadhu blew a conch shell, speeches began. Among the speakers was Karan Singh, a former minister in Prime Minister Indira Gandhi's cabinet. At the time, he was an independent Member of Parliament. Courtly and soft-spoken, he is the son of the last Maharaja of Jammu and Kashmir.
Mr. Singh was the founder of an organization to espouse the values of universal brotherhood and human welfare contained in the Vedas and Upanishads, Hindu sacred texts. He formed it in direct response to the events of Meenakshipuram, he said in an interview in the book-lined study of his Delhi mansion.
The mass conversion to Islam "was, first of all, a clear statement that the way Hinduism was functioning is not acceptable to a large number of people," Mr. Singh said. At the time, the message was: "People are leaving because we are not following our principles."
At the religious conference, Mr. Singh spoke about the need to reconnect individual life and politics with the tenets of Hinduism, and to rid society of the dowry system and the stigma of "untouchability" that relegated lower-caste Hindus to an underclass, according to the VHP's account of the event. He also rued the fact that Hindu holy sites had been neglected.
"We cannot even light a holy lamp" at Ram's birthplace in Ayodhya, he told the Sadhus. "How shameful a matter is it for 80% of this country's residents who call themselves Hindus?"
The gathering issued a code of conduct for individuals, families and society. Its code for the country's statesmen included the demand that three important holy sites be "given back to Hindu society."
The Babri Masjid, the mosque in Ayodhya that many Hindus claimed was Lord Ram's birthplace – "Ram Janmabhoomi" in Hindi — was top of the list.
Ram appealed to Hindus of all castes: one story recounted in the Ramayan, the text about his life, has him happily eating berries given to him by a lower-caste woman.
A few months after the religious parliament, the VHP followed up with a rally for devotees led by a motorized chariot. Hindu scripture says Ram rode a chariot into battle.
The rally started at Sitamarhi in Bihar in late September 1984. The district is believed by Hindus to be the place where Sita, Ram's wife, emerged from the earth.
Thousands of the faithful joined the procession, which reached Ayodhya 12 days later. There, they descended to the banks of the Sarayu river, cupped its water in their palms and, according to several participants, took an oath.
The crowd totalled about 50,000 that day, according to Mr. Singhal of the VHP, who was among them. Similar oath-taking ceremonies were held at major rivers around the country.
The Hindus at the Sarayu that day wanted to go further than keeping a tiny statue of Ram inside the Babri Masjid. They wanted to build a house of worship where Ram sat: "We will give up everything to build Lord Ram's temple at his birthplace," they swore, according to several people who took part.
The organizers say they were surprised by the number of supporters. "People found that this is an agitation which will be successful," Mr. Singhal said. "Such a large number of people came from small villages to witness and join the movement."
A day later, the chariot started rolling again. But its journey was interrupted when, on Oct. 31, 1984, Mrs. Gandhi, the prime minister and Jawaharlal Nehru's daughter, was shot dead at her New Delhi home by two Sikh bodyguards.
Soon, Ayodhya would become a defining issue for the country's new leader: Mrs. Gandhi's 40-year-old son, Rajiv.
Rajiv Gandhi was a political beginner. Eschewing politics, he worked as a pilot for Indian Airlines and married an Italian, Sonia Maino.
He was elected as a Member of Parliament in 1981, following the death of his younger brother, Sanjay, in a plane crash. Soon after Mr. Gandhi succeeded his mother, he called for national elections. His Congress party won the biggest Parliamentary majority in India's electoral history.
Mr. Gandhi brought the promise of a new kind of Indian leader. He was young and interested in promoting technology. Within months, however, he was deeply embroiled in the historical tussle between Muslims and Hindus and the sense of victimhood that both sides felt.
The catalyst was a case brought by a Muslim woman called Shah Bano. She had been divorced by her husband several years before and was left destitute. She asked the Supreme Court to force her ex-husband to pay maintenance.
In the spring of 1985, the Supreme Court ruled in her favour, citing the provisions against destitution in Indian criminal law that applied to all Indians.
Prominent members of the Muslim clergy viewed the ruling as a threat to Islamic law, which had long governed their personal matters. It does not require the equivalent of alimony. But the justices had ordered a divorced man to pay maintenance.
At first, Rajiv Gandhi backed the verdict. Arif Mohammed Khan, a Muslim and minister in Mr. Gandhi's government, made a long speech in Parliament in praise of the ruling.
In an interview, Mr. Khan said he did so at the prime minister's request. Afterward, he received a note from Mr. Gandhi, he said, which congratulated him on a "wonderful performance" and a "great speech."
But the Muslim clergy protested, heaping pressure on the prime minister. They demanded he counter the verdict through an act of Parliament. "The Muslim clergy found this as an opportunity to mobilize the Muslims and project themselves," said Mr. Khan.
Mr. Gandhi succumbed and started preparations for a law that would effectively overturn the Supreme Court ruling.
But he also wanted to find a way to mollify Hindu outrage over the Muslim protests and to counter anticipated Hindu claims that Muslims were being appeased by the government, said Mr. Khan.
The prime minister, he said, found his answer in a court case in Faizabad, the city next to Ayodhya.
The case sought to have the lock removed on the main gate of the Babri Masjid, granting greater public access to the idol that had been sitting in seclusion under the central dome for almost four decades.
Mr. Gandhi's calculation, Mr. Khan said, was that the Hindu focus on the Shah Bano case "will be redirected to Ayodhya."
Umesh Chandra Pandey filed the petition to open the lock in late January 1986. He was a 30-year-old lawyer and occasional journalist who then lived in Faizabad.
His interest in the issue had begun three years earlier, when the editor of a local Hindi newspaper asked him to write a feature on the festival commemorating Ram's birthday, Mr. Pandey and the editor said in interviews.
Mr. Pandey said he also heard leaders from the Vishwa Hindu Parishad claiming that there never had been an official order to lock the Babri Masjid gate.
"I thought, 'If this is so, then how has this lock been put there?'" he said.
Adding drama and urgency, a prominent Sadhu had threatened to set himself ablaze if the lock was not removed, according to Mr. Pandey and other accounts. Other Sadhus threatened to get themselves arrested by trying to unlock the gate themselves, according to the VHP's Mr. Singhal.
Mr. Pandey, a short man who speaks in emphatic phrases, said he spent a couple of weeks examining court papers. He came to the conclusion that there had never been a formal order putting the lock in place, he said. (Priests who cared for the idols in the building entered through a side gate.)
Soon after Mr. Pandey filed his petition, he found out that a copy had been sent to the state agency in charge of internal security, he said.
The petition also attracted the interest of Rajiv Gandhi and Arun Nehru, a cousin of Mr. Gandhi's and a powerful adviser to the prime minister, according to Arif Mohammed Khan, the government minister at the time.
Mr. Gandhi and Mr. Nehru wanted to ensure that the petition succeeded so Hindus would feel assuaged, Mr. Khan said. The prime minister asked Mr. Nehru to coordinate the government's participation in the case, including dealing with the state government of Uttar Pradesh, Mr. Khan said.
Other officials from the time say Mr. Nehru, the adviser, was the more influential in seizing on the issue and the prime minister acquiesced. Yet others say Mr. Gandhi was unaware of what was happening.
Either way, said Mr. Khan: "The buck stops at the door of the prime minister" as the head of the government.
When asked about the episode in a brief telephone conversation, Mr. Nehru responded: "That's none of your damn business."
The government ensured that two senior local officials appeared – unusually — before the judge, rather than submitting affidavits, Mr. Khan said. They testified that law and order could be maintained if the lock was removed, a key consideration in the judge's deliberations.
Mushtaq Ahmad Siddiqui, one of the lawyers representing Muslims in their legal claims to the Babri Masjid site, said he also asked to be heard before the judge.
"You may, there is no hurry," he said the judge responded. "The matter is continuing for 36 years – you will be allowed sufficient time." He was referring to the fact that litigation over the site had begun in 1950.
On the afternoon of Feb. 1, 1986, the judge ruled there had been no official order that placed the lock on the mosque's gate. He ordered the lock opened "forthwith," according to witnesses. The judge is now deceased.
Within 30 minutes, a senior police officer in Ayodhya broke the lock. A camera crew from Doordarshan, the government-run television channel, was there. The event was broadcast to the nation.
Mr. Pandey, the man who filed the petition, said he couldn't sleep that night. The next morning, he went to the site.
"I was without words," he said. "But I was thankful to God that I was able to look and to offer my prayer."
The gate opening was the first that millions of Hindus had heard of Ayodhya and the battle over Ram's birthplace. It energized them en masse because Ram was a role model. Grandmothers told their grandsons to aspire to be like him: obedient to their parents, faithful to their family, honest in their dealings.
Rajiv Gandhi received the news during a visit to the Maldives, according to Mani Shankar Aiyar, his speechwriter at the time.
In the hours before a state banquet, the prime minister was putting the finishing touches on his formal dress and on his speech when he received a telephone call, Mr. Aiyar said in an interview. Mr. Gandhi was told the lock was opened, Mr. Aiyar said.
The lock opening quickly took on a mystical aspect. Mr. Pandey claimed that on the afternoon of the decision, a monkey sat on the roof of the Faizabad court house. A monkey was symbolic because Hanuman, the Hindu monkey god, was a loyal friend of Ram.
The animal, unusually for a monkey, sat still for more than 30 minutes, Mr. Pandey said. Then, when the judge issued his order, the monkey walked to the flagpole on the courthouse roof and touched the Indian flag, according to Mr. Pandey. "I don't think this can happen without the Almighty's permission," he added.
The lock opening shocked Muslim elders and lawyers who had been following the Ayodhya dispute because they saw in it a threat to their mosque and to their religion. They gathered the next day in an orphanage in Delhi.
"Today, it appears we have become second-class citizens," said one elder, close to tears, according to two people who were there.
The leaders worried that the next step would be the Babri Masjid's destruction.
On Feb. 3, 1986, two days after the lock was opened, a small group of Muslim lawyers petitioned the high court in Lucknow, the capital of Uttar Pradesh, to order that nothing more happen to the site, according to two of the lawyers.
The judge issued a notice that the "status quo" be maintained.
Zafaryab Jilani, one of the lawyers, was then just shy of his 36th birthday. The lock opening would vault him to the forefront of the Muslim movement seeking to retain the Babri Masjid site for Islam.
Born in a town close to Lucknow, Mr. Jilani pursued his legal studies at Aligarh Muslim University.
There, he gained his first experience in organizing protests. He said he was part of a small group that, in 1970, led students in opposing government plans to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the school's incorporation by an act of Parliament.
The students were angry about previous government measures that stopped Muslims from being the sole administrators of the university. Faced with the protests, the government scrapped the golden jubilee festivities and, ultimately, undid the administrative changes.
After the Babri Masjid lock opening, Mr. Jilani started organizing protests again.
He and a handful of associates called meetings of prominent local Muslims; it included one gathering of about 200 in a hall in Lucknow, Mr. Jilani said in an interview.
They created the Babri Masjid Action Committee to organize public strikes and demonstrations– and to push back against what the leaders viewed as Hindu aggression.
On Feb. 7, 1986, Mr. Jilani said he and about eight others met the then-chief minister of Uttar Pradesh, Vir Bahadur Singh. The chief minister denied any involvement in the lock opening, Mr. Jilani said.
"I haven't done it. Whatever has been done, it is at the behest of some other leaders, top leaders," Mr. Jilani said the chief minister told them. Mr. Singh died a few years later.
A week after that meeting, the new committee held its first event: a "Black Day," or state-wide public strike, Mr. Jilani said. Later, tens of thousands protested in Lucknow and other cities.
In May 1986, the government used its huge majority in Parliament to push through a law that effectively reversed the Shah Bano ruling and made it clear Muslim personal law would prevail.
Mr. Gandhi's supporters say the prime minister was only trying to clarify that matters of Muslim personal law would be governed by Islam, as they had been for decades.
The law's passage cemented the idea among many Hindus that the government was kowtowing to Muslims. Muslim leaders, on the other hand, were angry about the lock opening. The prime minister's plan to do something to mollify both sides had gone awry.
Arif Mohammed Khan, the minister who had supported the Shah Bano ruling, resigned from the government. He recalled that Mr. Gandhi said to him at the time: "The situation is such that I am feeling very helpless."
And, as Mr. Gandhi's grandfather, Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru, had feared in 1950, the new prominence of the Babri Masjid dispute complicated the delicate political equation in the late 1980s in Kashmir, the Himalayan region fought over by India and Pakistan.
Militants who favoured a separate country of Kashmir used the opening of the lock on the mosque to rebuke Indian Muslims who favoured embracing India's secularism and democracy.
The militants said, according to Mr. Jilani: "Your government is not sincere with you, how do you expect that government to be sincere with us?"
Source: http://blogs.wsj.com/indiarealtime/2012/12/05/ayodhya-the-battle-for-indias-soul-chapter-three/?mod=irt
URL of Chapter One of the Series: http://www.newageislam.com/current-affairs/krishna-pokharel-and-paul-beckett/ayodhya,-the-battle-for-india's-soul--chapter-one/d/9534
URL of Chapter Two of the Series: http://www.newageislam.com/current-affairs/krishna-pokharel-and-paul-beckett/ayodhya,-the-battle-for-india's-soul--chapter-two/d/9553
URL: http://www.newageislam.com/current-affairs/krishna-pokharel-and-paul-beckett/ayodhya,-the-battle-for-india's-soul--chapter-three/d/9567


text:
Carly Rae Jepsen's song "Call Me, Maybe?" is the most parodied bit of pop culture since Hitler did everything from getting caught in the housing debacle to missing out on a Harley for the gathering in Sturgis, South Dakota.
Jepsen's song has been used to parody the rivalrybetween Michael Phelps and Ryan Lochte among other things.
Now it's being used to mock JPMorgan CEO Jamie Dimon. The Service Employees International Union, or SEIU, has launched a "Call me, Jamie" campaign to highlight a strike by janitors at Chase Tower in Houston.

subset: commoncrawl


text:
Oh what a night…
I went to bed last night thinking that I'd be able to come up with some poignant way to capture the Vin Scully/John Wooden event last night and woke up no more able than the night before. Jon Weisman, on the other hand, recapped it great and shares many thoughts, nearly all of which I agree wholeheartedly, so rather than try and re-write it, I'll just direct you there.
It's been far too long since the Dodgers scored…what more can be said on that front? Here's the group that will try to push some runs across the board this afternoon in the Motor City.
Pierre, LF
DeWitt, 3B
Kent, 2B
Loney, 1B
Martin, C
Ethier, RF
Kemp, CF
Young, DH
Berroa, SS
Penny, P
226 Comments
With the exception of Pierre in his usual spot, not a bad lineup – DY as DH should hopefully be a good move, and I am all for giving Ethier a chance in the 6 spot. He definitely needed the change, and I think it will be a good one for him. He might prove to be more productive in that spot. I still would like to see Matt in the 3rd slot, but I am just happy he made the move he did with DeWitt.
Well said DNEl i agree with you..hopefully we will score a run!!!!
Another new day.
Let's go, Dodgers!!!
Other than the painfully omnipresent Pierre, I can live with this lineup. No Sweeney is a plus. GO BLUE!!
last night, as josh said, was beyond words. it was definitely a great and memorable night. i will never forget it. wooden and scully were both amazing (as always) and very witty. and they weren't afraid to put tj simers in his place!
as far as the lineup goes, i agree with all of you, that with the exception of pierre it is as good as can be. let's push across some runs and get a win! go blue!! =)
Release Sweeney, bring back Tiffee to DH.
Why does Joe always feel having Pierre lead off is the way to go? Doesn't he realize we tried that last year and finished 4th. It's not like we're winning with him leading off. I guess as long as Frank makes money they don't really care about winning, or at least it seems that way.
Los Angeles Dodgers at Detroit Tigers – Dick Stockton, Eric Karros & Ken Rosenthal (FOX, 3:55pm, 17%)
MARKETS INCLUDE: Detroit, Los Angeles, Minneapolis, Phoenix, Portland, San Diego
Needless to say MLB needs to find a way for people outside of these markets to see the game. Blackouts for FOX games are ridiculous. MLB Extra Innings nor MLB.TV allow it.
Has speed become so important in the leadoff spot in the order that it blinds a manager into submission of that precept regardless of the fact that said speed is reliant upon the ability of a leadoff batter to get on base in the first place? Is Joe truly leading the cart before the beaten dead horse at the top of the lineup? Is the forest so freaking thick that Joe clearly cannot see the trees right before his face???
Give up on the speed and put baserunner on base!! In order to score one MUST have RUNNERS ON BASE!!
Pierre is a problem, but he's not the only, nor biggest problem, that distinction belongs to management itself. Josh, feel free to pass this on if you wish.
On base percentage and consistency should take precendence in Joe's lineups. How can the team find consistency if it is continually juggled about? Ditto with the management issue Fliegel…
kssparkuhl@msn I have no real problem with Joe changing the line up around after all it's not like they're setting the world on fire. The problem I do have is where he should change it and doesn't, the lead off spot. You're right on the money about speed only helping if you get on base to begin with. Wouldn't it be nice to have someone in that spot that not only got on base more , but also could maybe hit a home run or two, and perhaps even , dare I say it, drive in a run once in a blue moon.
Pierre is hitting better than Kent is.
.282 /.343 /.319 /.663 to .240 /.278 /.402 /.680 until those two are taken out of the lineup and benched then I know that the dodgers don't care about winning. And what is worse I think they only hope to win this year and do not care about next year and building for the future. I think right now they care more about Jones and Nomar coming back and the hopes that Kent will get things going more so than giving young players a chance to hit since others and see if they can make an impact on an offense and to see if LaRoache and DY can be regular starters in 2009.
You know Josh I would ask Joe and Ned why it is so important to have two guys shitting the bed night after night at the top of the lineup.
I guess that magical .360 OBP for Pierre is long gone. Also, his .282/343 and 26 steals isnt so bad really? Doing what he always does. Point is, its meaningless. it's not impactful. obviously.
I would ask Ned Josh for good of all Dodger fans does he ever consider stepping down
I wonder how much Ned would take to resign? I wonder if we started a pool to buy him out if he would consider it? 🙂
The only time I ever want to hear from Ned whether on this blog or anywhere else is when he resigns, period. Any other statement coming from Ned is either an attempt to rose color color something in the way of a PR position, or it is a blatant lie. The guy is the worst excuse ever seen as a GM.
Pitching is the most important thing but what good is it without an offense to support it.
Unless we are facing the best crop of pitchers around, this team has no concept of how to score runs.
When it comes to the point that RISP becomes a joke, something has to change.
With such a young team we can chalk it up as a learning experence but let's hope they are learning the right way.
Maybe we should change the hitting coach again or maybe coach by committee.
We should send somebody down to the minors to coach them better and get them ready to face major league pitching.
again Karros is saying how they are just trying to go up and hit it, no approach. But they are 24 and not magically 28. It is what it is they are learning. If they were surrounded by talented veterans who could still play and put upp numbers things would be better and they would be ovrlooked. Instead our GM continues o use the excuse of youth. Like Karros never learned. As he says it Kent is hitting into a double play. Its a double standard.
Well, just because eric couldn't find it, and certainly not because anything happened during a game that I am boycotting (interleague play), here it is:
My Loney has a first name,
It's J-A-M-E-S
My Loney has a second name,
It's L-O-N-E-Y
I love to watch him every day
And if you ask me why I'll say
'Cause James Loney has a way
With H-I-T-T-I-N-G!
I wish Martin would be batting 3rd and Kent 5th. I know Kent will never bat lower than 4th since his .239 AVG is so clutch, but would he really do any worse batting 5th in this line-up?
.227 RSIP; .198 w/ runners; .278 ob% – is that really what we need in our 4th or 3rd spot?
Martin is .286 RISP; .330 w/ runners; .416 ob%
I just wish our best hitter would get the most at bats.
Did we really score a run or was that a dream?
It's about time. Thanks to the speed of K E M P.
Yeah, we scored. Welcome back Matt……
Once again, KEMP's hustle brings good tidings. I like seeing him beat out those grounders, especially when we score a run.
Hey, we scored a run! Hallelujah! Constructive feedback – notice that no veterans were involved, nor injured, nor harmed, in the production of this run. Brought to by 20-somethings.
meant to say "brought to you by 20-somethings."
the team is trying a new look today.. they're all wearing their pants up showing their socks. it's kinda cool to see some team unity. i guess they're willing to try anything.. good to see..
Can anyone tell me what number Eddie Bonine is wearing?
There is no MLB-TV on Saturday afternoon and he's listed numberless on the roster.
btw, did everyone else hear them say that furcal is shut down from all baseball activity because he's recovering from a bulging disk and he won't be back until after the all-star break? i hadn't heard that diagnosis until today, even though i knew he was shut down and out until the break..
bonine is wearing #43
This lead brought to you by the ASPCPVL – American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Pathetic Veteran Losers
I'm glad I can't see the Dodgers, I never liked that knicker look.
I hope they don't decide to wear them if they happen to win today.
Thank you, saralovesrussell.
If they win today, I really don't care if they even wear socks. I don't care what they wear as long as they can win.
If they want to change their luck they should were their Blue with the white lettering. IMO
Kemp is out two games and the Dodgers don't score. Kemp returns and the Dodgers score his first time up.
I should add that we should all boycott ilegal interleague-play. It's a blatant violation of Rule 6.10 and other of the Rules of Baseball,not to mention the laws of God and Morality. It is pure evil, and is ruining the game.
Penny better watch those lead off walks–These are not the Dodgers.
What the hell is Penny's problem?????????
Is he already thinking about tonight's buffet.
Retires 6 and then 2 walks!!!!!!!! Give me a break
I see no one mentioned it was K E M P's team leading 39th RBI
We're about to lose our lead real quick..
Yea we scored what a miracle…Karros should not be criticizing anyone…I was happy when the Dodgers dumped him. I thought he was overrated his last 4-5 years with the Dodgers.
I hope while they are playing they can still pay attention to how a couple of walks can be damaging.
The Dodgers should put more thought into walking, since the HRs are so few and far between.
2nd & 3rd nobody out.
They got a good chance to score.
what did martin do?
YESSSSS THE DODGERS HAVE BROKEN OUT!!! Now we just have to pray that Penny doesn't give up that 5 run inning somewhere down the line..
I had heard about the bulging disk in Furcal's back and not being back until, at least, after the All-Star Break. In light of management's lack of forthrightness on this situation, it would not surprise me if we've seen the last of him for this year.
OMG, what kind of poll is that? Which PVL will return from the DL first, Nomore, Shi*, the fat Cow, head-case, or bulgy disk?
How about this for a poll?
When will Ned be fired?
.Before the All-Star Break
.Between the All-Star Break and the trading deadline
.Between the trading deadline and end of regular season
.Between end of regular season and end of World Series
.Between end of World Series and Thanksgiving
Great going 'D R E.
That's the way to do it. D Y.
Why the hell is Pierre playing and a young talent with some power (young) sitting on the bench most of the time.
This kid will be a great hitter…
It really sucks not being able to watch this game live. Gameday, it is.
crash. I vote for after the World Series, although I wish it was sooner.
Crash, I'm praying for a miracle – that Ned get canned before the afternoon is over. Even sooner would be better.
I hope this isn't the occasional bunch of runs the Dodgers score every couple of days, then go scoreless for while.
And Penny better not give them back.
It seems the good pitching stops often when the scoring starts.
Bear, you are way ahead of me. I was just going to vote for prior to the All-Star break. But you are right. It needs to be done before he gets a stupid idea and ruins the core team that will take us to the WS in 2010-2014.
Hey all, I bought two packs of Topps baseball cards today, and here are some of the highlights from the group:
Grady Little – Dodger Manager
Joe Torre – Yankee Manager
Tony LaRussa
Andy Pettite
Ryan Howard
Prince Fielder
Delwyn Young (our boy)
Mike Lowell
Todd Helton
Jake Peavy
John Smoltz
Jonathan Papelbon
Jorge Posada
Johnny Damon
Jason Giambi
I thought those first two were especially funny.
I'll take Ned going, say, in the bottom of the 5th?
Score so far today: Core team has 4 RBI's and 5 LOB. PVLs have no RBI's and 2 LOB.
ugh.. cabrera..
pierreseastmeetswest–I would have thought you liked the old school look. But don't worry, Jeff Kent is not wearing his socks up.
I think that they should not go with the blue with white letters, even to change their luck. Too many mix and match uniforms in baseball today–there should be a home jersey and a road jersey (and, in my opinion, the road jersey should in most cases simply be the smae design as the home jersey but gray, except for a very small number of teams who have classic road jerseys). The Dodgers have classic home jerseys (the same since 1938, I think, but you can confirm pierreseastmeetswest), and should not alter them.
Miguel Cabrera—That's sounds familiar…
yeah leekfink.. kent and kemp are the only two not wearing their socks up..
I was thinking about saying the Dodgers wouldn't have the lead coming out of the 4th inning, but didn't want to be a downer….. buuuut I guess I can say it now! Brad Penny's option is a TEAM option right? Please say it is…
Way to shut them down Penny you number 6 starter!!!!
Once again, Penny implodes. Situation normal.
Penny is F****** worthless. What a loser. He's a worthless as T*ts on a rattlesnake, Sh**
Trade Penny and promote Kuo…he is an overpaid unhappy sour puss!!!!! And he S..ks!!!!
Penny s*ucks, Penny s*cks!!!
Peny's s*cking so bad the best we'll get for his worthless fat *$$ is just another one of Ned's worthless PVL'S at deadline time.
Get him the hell out of there and bring in a pitcher.
Josh – Constructive feedback poll says fire Ned:
1 vote for this afternoon or even sooner
1 vote for bottom of 5th inning today
1 vote for pre-All Star break or sooner
1 vote for after WS or sooner
Get your votes in – Josh wants feedback!
omg, it's still a close game and torre wants proctor.. that's some scary crap
Another 5 run inning. Go Penny.
pre-all star break. Let's be realistic. But a mid-game canning would be just what the doctor ordered
That's the way I wore my uniform, but I guess we didn't know better in those days, leekfink
I like the way they ware them today.
Once in a while the blue with the white looks good.
I also think it's tough looking(might scare pitchers)LOL.
Well another lousy start for Penny, it would happen when we're scoring.
It's raining in Brooklyn—–maybe it's tears.
Okay, way to go Joe! Wait until Penny gets shelled by two home runs and a triple before you replace him. And that's because you still think he's your fuc*ing ace! And then you bring in Doctor Proctor to put out the fire on a day when the offense is actually scoring runs? (Did you notice that I write in run-on sentences when I'm giving my most passionate constructive feedback?)
I've had enough of this game. We couldn't beat a sandlot team. Let me know when we start winning again, say sometime next year S*** & rats
I guess Penny has showered and headed to the trough already. What a lousy loser.
Boblee, we could email you. But why be in such a hurry? At this rate, it's going to be a while. Give us your address, and we'll send you a snail mail. No sense in rushing back until Frank has shed Ned, Joe, Sweeney, Penny, Lowe, Nomore, Jones, Furcal, Kent, Pierre, Bennett. Did I forget someone? I'm sure there are plenty more. Oh, yeah, don't forget Conte.
Leave it to Proctor, the weakest link in our good bullpen, to give up another run.
Now we got to put back on our hitting shoes against this kid Bonine.. I mean everybody, young & old.
this is pathetic. Penny is a fat piece of crap and Proctor has been usless for a year. And an other shocker Pierre is 0-3!
kent was lucky to escape the double play.. loney was not so lucky.. i'm pretty sure he leads the majors in hitting into double plays.. not something he's proud of..
Somebody tell me what Honeycutt does besides an occasional TV interview and make telephone calls between the dugout and the bulpen. Any one of us could do that, but fix a veteran pitcher with a significant problem? Nah.
Lighning and thunder along with the rain in Brooklyn as the Dodgers fail again in Detroit.
The Dodgers biggest problem may be that after all these years they use up all the big apple juice that was in them.
Non the less, they are still my team.
Josh – Constructive feedback poll says fire Ned:
1 vote for immediately
1 vote for this afternoon or even sooner
1 vote for bottom of 5th inning today
1 vote for pre-All Star break or mid-game today
1 vote for pre-All Star break or sooner
1 vote for after WS or sooner
zero votes for keep Ned
Get your votes in – Josh wants feedback!
Can I have Betemit back from wherever he is and have Proctor gone?
why does torre continue to have confidence in guys i have no confidence in?? i CANNOT continue to watch proctor!! i don't even remember the last game he made an appearance without giving up a run..
Who can take a bad situation and make it much worse? The Proctor Man. The Proctor Man Can.
Why is Proctor still in!??!?! Joe must want to lose. THis is pathetic. Im done with this team for a while.
This game is over. The expression on Russell Martin's face as well as his body language says it all
joe had given up the second he brought proctor in. if our manager doesn't want to try and win, why should his players, or the fans even care?
I think Honeycutt is doing a heck of a lot better job than Easley. The "Hit Man" , what we need is a "Score Man".
When the heck is he going to take Proctor out and leave him out. We do a lot better without him.
The bad thing about this is– we give up runs when we are findly able to score some.
It's like two teams in one and the pitchers don't like the hitters.
Dam'n- too bad jhall had to see this game with his army buddy. Let's hope we turn it around for his sake. He must be having a fit watching first Penny and now Dr. Proctologist getting shelled.
Ok Joe and Larry, how did the kids cost us this time? What they cannot jump 30 feet high to stop the rockets that were hit? I love th dodgers but this is getting unbearable
Bear—–you took the thoughts right out of my head.
What was the purpose of that trade, if not to help out Yankees?
Yeah, jhall has the misfortune of seeing this debacle up close and personal. I'll never hear the end of this from my Michigan relatives.
Just got back in… Put me down for fire Ned immediately and JoJo too. And tell them not to let the door hit them in the *** on the way out.
It is good to type in something positive.
I vote for immediatly
Thank you Mr Bonine_____are there any more home like you?
Does anyone else on here find yourself borderline rooting for the other team? It's almost to the point that you're so not surprised at how bad we are that you just expect to see runs scored on us and us not scoring at all… and when we do score… we get our hearts ripped out… This season sucks…. I don't even know what to say anymore!!
yup, russ and andre got us back a couple..
sigh, if only joe hadn't chose proctor.. we would be closer..
Can anyone remember a more frustrating season? I think my most recent example would be 2004… great start and then we just sucked…
I see we're taking the proctologist without the K-Y again. Penny, Procto, Berroa at the Sweeney line, JP, Kant… and tell me why its the kids bringing us down.
Later people. There's go to be something better to do than this.
A 6.14 era out of the pen Joe is not a good thing….it is time for Proctor to go and bring up Meloan….I will never give up rooting for the Dodgers but this is getting very tiresome….Frank you have to make a move to spark this team….If it means Ned has to be the scapegoat…Well, OK we will support you through this tough time. It will only hurt for a second i promise. It will be like getting a shot, a momentary pinch then no pain….
Logan White GM and Steve Yeager manager!!!!
Yea, Frank – let's throw Ned in front of a bus!!!
P I E R R E highest BA with runners in scoring position.
I know nobody heard that, so I thought I'd log it in.
I think Ned should go but the above statement is one vote for him to stay.
Now the Proctor deal will be a vote against that.
PROCTOR has to go before Colletti.
The kids are killing us today Bowa…if they could have only gotten 3 or more hits and scored 5 more runs…Damn kids!
the kids…9 of 11 hits…scored 6 of 7 runs and have 6 of 7 rbi…and Pierre has another rbi probably off a hard hit ball to the 2b….
vets…2 hits 1 run and 1 rbi and 10 runs given up….
Who is killing this team?
MLB boxscore is slow…is the score 11-7 now….he left proctor in? what the hell Joe the kids are trying to come back and you will not let them….
Let's see, the kids with 9 hits and 6RBI, and Pierre got his RBI with a force out, not even a hit. Only vets with hits are Kent and Berroa. We love you Juan!
nice line Proctor 2 ip 4 BBS and 3 hits, way to keep them off the bases!!
Juan, our guy who is supposed to ignite the offense: 0 hits, 0 walks, 0 steals. Wow, that speed at the top of the lineup is really helping!
Put Penny on the CPL…Cannot Perform list…5.88 era he has to be hurt, if not he is hurting us!!!! ?That is grounds for the DL.
I credit the the team that WALKS.
You have to give credit to the batter when he walks.
I think one of the Dodgers' biggest problems is that they lack the ability to walk.
That's the vets and the kids.
Kent is the worst at getting a walk, hardly ever walks.
Don't take my word or disagree, just watch.
Although I hope this all changes as soon as possible.
I agree with you pierre, I just think that it is especially important for a real leadoff hitter to get on, whether a walk, infield hit, or a good old hit to the outfield. Juan does none of that, and that's why nobody cares about his speed if he never gets to use it on the basepaths.
Poor Andre you know he sits tomorrow…he screwed up and hit a HR!!!! Why did you go and do that Ethier…the object is to win…you just do not get it do you….to paraphrase Bowa!!!
It is not just Pierre, I understand your point Perumike, it is our whole lineup. They need to learn how to work a pitcher…the Dodgers have given up 6 walks and the Tigers 0….good point PierreEW.
It's good to see the Dodgers put up a fight, especially on the road and against an AL team.
The score is 11-7.
That's 7 runs, something to think about.
I just hope that ain't it for the week.
I agree dodger, but it is imperative to have that quality in a leadoff hitter, and unfortunately we don't. The lineup is pretty bad right now, but it all starts with the top, and I don't think it is a coincidence that since Furcal is out we are pretty awful.
The Dodgers don't seem to be able to take close pitches, that is a pitch that is close to the strike zone, but not a strike.
That's how the Mets & the Pards beat up on Kuroda.
When they start learning that, they will begin to win on a consistant basis.
This is a team problem.
It's not a vet vs kids problem.
Who's to blame?
Everybody seems to know on this blog, but for the life of me, with 60+ years of watching this team I don't.
Furcal is definately better for this team, it doesn't take a genious to figure that out.
But JP takes a lot of criticism he really doesn't deserve.
I think this is all a vandette that you guys have going, when he definately isn't the reason this team is losing.
He certainly isn't the reason we're winning. Oops, we're not. Our closer is no better than our starter.
Time to fire Ned
Time to fire JoJo
Time to release Sweeney
Time to sit Pierre till further notice. We won't notice
Great job DY…man can he hit…he just needs playing time…maybe Ned will trade him for Hendrickson, Loaiza, or Lugo.
it gets to the point where you just have to laugh. looks like we're giving the '92 team a run for their money.
It's true the vets on this team aren't what they use to be.
This year, especially Kent & Sweeney, are really showing some wear & tear.
But they are just a part of the problem.
The kids are great, I love them, but they are still learning this game.
Especially when it comes to when they are at the plate.
They are our future. They WILL IMPROVE.
PierreEW, i for one have been a Pierre sympathizer, but we should not have to put up with the failings of a GM. This is not a swipe at Pierre, rather an indictment on the GM, who admittedly panicked last year because of the JD Drew opt out. Yes, I agree alot of people on the blog take personal shots at Pierre and Torre. The fans on here are very emotional about the Dodgers. It is obvious by the moves that Ned have made, he is not the GM for the job and the players, Pierre in particular is taking the brunt of the heat. I have a very good friend who coaches in the Minors with the Dodgers and Pierre is a great guy and works his a… off, but he is not what we needed. Ned Panicked!!!
Frank, I just wish I had a boss as understanding as you.
1.Schmidt 48 mil 2 wins is it? I hate to break the news but he is not going to come back and if he does it will not go well…sorry call me a pessimist, I prefer realist.
2. A Jones 38 mil….167 avg..there is still hope, but why were we so fixated on him. If he had anything left why would Atlanta not offer him something. They are pretty good at talent evaluation.
3. Loiaza…what cost 10 mil for 2 wins and no longer…I am not a scout but I did sleep at a holiday inn express once…and I knew Loiaza was history.
4. Traded a promising 20 year old arm for a FA to be middle reliever (jackson for Baez)
5. Resigned an injury proned Nomar to a 20 mil contract…how has that worked out?
6. Frank, I ask, what trade has he made other than the Ethier trade has worked out. He learned from Sabean who constantly overspent and traded for over the hill vets. Bad pedigree!!!
JPs criticism is well deserved, in fact it's hardly enough. He's a pinch runner at best, and drags this team down in the lead off spot. Left field is a power position, and that's only one of the things JP lacks.
Josh, when can we get some updates on the Dodgers draft picks. I check other team sites and it lists who has been signed so far…Can you get Dejon (great guy) and or Logan to give us an update or take ?s sometime.
Pierre may be a great guy, and a hard worker, but he just doesn't have the talent to play left field and lead off everyday. It's true it's not totally his fault, he is what he is, but he was never a good fit here and now he's taking playing time away from better players in DY and Andre. I agree it's Ned's fault for panicking when Drew left. Even then we would have been much better off if Ned gave Drew those 5 years rather than Pierre, and I'm not a big Drew fan either.
I don't know whats up with Penny. If he's injured he needs to go on the DL. If he is just $ucking than he deserves to lose his spot in the rotation when Schmidt comes off the DL because right now I am sick of his wildness in the zone. Sit Pierre everyday and let DY play. If we don't see significant improvement by the trade deadline we should definatley be sellers because this team isn't going anywhere the way they're playing right now and I'm SICK OF IT!!!
Sorry for all the pessimism but this team isn't going anywhere with Pierre playing every day and the proctometer coming in out of the pen. That Betemit for Proctometer trade was idiotic. Proctometer $ucks and we could use Wilson's power at short right now. FIRE NED NOW!
Stellar 0 for 5 performance by Juan Pierre. Is he single-handedly the reason we're losing – No, but he's not helping either. I believe since Pierre has been lead-off we're 14-23 or so. 37 games JoJo – do you see a trend?? DY on the otherhand was 3 for 4.
Hey JoJo, here's a constructive thought – why not sit Pierre and start DY?
This team may lack poise, it may lack experience, it may lack patience at the plate (though the numbers don't bear that out vs. the PVLs), but what it lacks most of all is a manager. No team that I've ever seen with this much young talent – not the Florida teams of the past, not the Rox or Snakes, and not Tampa Bay of this season, have the struggles this team has day in and day out. Someone up top mentioned a droll lackluster manager like Little and Torre just don't have the fire to ignite the wick with these guys. I agree. This year's history. Can Ned and JoJo now, and use the rest of the year to get rid of PVLs for prospects, hire a guy like Yeager, play the kids for experience and evaluation the rest of the year, and start fresh in 2009.
dodgereric, nice chronology with the tunes. A labor of love!
Dodgers certainly are in a funk huh? I stand by what I said last night. If Ned could somehow find his GM legs and move Pierre and Kent SOON to real contenders, Dodgers could fully commit to the youth movement, with Young (LF) and LaRoche (2B), and see where the chips fall come season's end. More important than getting LaRoche and Young into the line-up, the move would send a CLEAR message that the page has been turned and it's now the kids' time. I, for one, believe they'd respond with fight and fire.
Eric – went back and found a few more tunes in April, but seems I was the only one writing them:
Simply Irresponsible April 12 6:43 am
Stuck In Lodi Again April 16 5:42 pm
If I only Had A Brain Part 1 April 17 4:50 pm, Part 2 4:56 pm, Part 3 5:09 pm, Part 4 April 18 2:53 pm
Supercalafragilisticexpialadoucious April 18 3:54 pm
The Wheels On The Bus Part 1 April 23 5:30 pm, Part 2 by jhall a couple minutes later
The GM is a Giant and i will never trust him. How many ex giants did he sign? Are any helping today? Now, for this youth movement… move them out. I would trade the entire outfield for one homerun hitter. 11 hrs from the entire outfield in any bodys mind is terrible. So andre got his 6th…how many times has he hit a homerun with nobody on. He may have a pretty face, unless he can play ss move him out. Kemp.. while he is woth something … make a big time trade.. i want to win now … not wait for this bad experiment
What's the sense of trading our outfield when you can't trust the GM doing the negotiating and player evaluation?
I certainly agree that you can't trust our GM, and his Giant roots may have a lot to do with that. Not that he is deliberately screwing up, but where he learned whatever he knows about baseball is not an example that I would want to follow. So, let's get rid of Ned first and then see what remains to be fixed.
Firing Ned will make an impact on personnel available, but unless they can Torre's sorry butt as well, the product on the field won't be much different.
I agree though bear – I wouldn't trust Ned trading any of the kids for something of value. Also, if the kids had some support by decent vets so that they weren't the ones carrying the team, I think they'd be doing better than we've seen. Torre's also messed with their heads – benchings the next day after home runs, benchings after multiple hit games… if Joe was out to break their spirit, he's done just that – it doesn't look like they have any fun playing at all now. HOF my ***.
I agree with everything you're saying with some exception.
Pierre( everybody knew this was wrong)
Schmidt( Not entirely Ned's fault) unless he was aware.
Loaiza(he's gone now)
Nomar(He helped a lot when we needed him in '06, not in '07)
Proctor like Pierre was not really needed by us, but the Yankees needed help(a real dumb deal,
but smart for the Yankees)
Jones(All he's done is stand in Ethier's way)
IMO Colletti has not helped this team and more likely has hurt it.
BUT the bottom line is winning and I just don't believe that the above moves are what the problem is right now.
The main thing IMO is that the Dodger offense- including everyone young and old- is not keeping up with the comp
etition and until it does, we're not going very far.
I understand wanting to win now, but if we let Colletti trade our entire outfield for a marquee-name HR bat, we're gonna end up with Ken Griffey Jr.
Don't get me wrong, I like Griffey, one of the greatest players of the last 20 years with Gwynn and (I have to give props) pre-steriod 20th Century Bonds. But I think you get my point.
I strongly believe that we lack the resources and, as the track record reads, the GM to make moves that will leave us with a team that can win the World Series this year or next. If we're gonna do it, this is the horse we're gonna have to ride on. Maybe just get rid of the guy responsible for the rickety, broken down stagecoach we've hitched to it.
The most convincing thing that Frank could do to show that winning is important to him is to FIRE NED NOW. That would make a statement that we're not satisfied with pissing away his money for no results. Let's get that fresh man or woman in the GM chair from within the organization in time to do whatever needs to be done before the trade deadline. Torre then needs to be reminded that we're on a rebuilding course this season with young players, period. If he can't follow that direction, give him a different assignment in the organization and get some fresh blood that will get fired up once in a while instead of sitting calmly in the dugout like he doesn't give a Shidt.
You're right, PierreEW, the bottom line is winning and the present management team has done a poor job of creating a team and environment where it can take place. You can argue about individual personnel decisions all night, whose fault they were or weren't or whether or not they should have been made, etc. but, taken in totality, results have not taken place and, just like persons of responsibility in any business, individuals must be held accountable. Torre and Colletti are responsible and, IMO, should be replaced. Logan White is a possibility for Ned's replacement and Yeagar is a possibility for Torre but I'm sure there are others. I'll leave that to the powers that be to decide.As it stands right now, this team isn't going to make the playoffs and , even if it did, we'd be swept out in the first round. We need to be sellers during the trading period and, quite honestly, I don't trust Colletti to make the necessary deals to improve the D's. We need to clear out some of our free agents to be (Lowe) and some of the other vets at the trading deadline, find out during the remainder of this season what we have, and start fresh next year.
I REALLY don't think it's as much Torre's fault as some people make it out to be. He's barely two and a half months into his first season with the team, and he only has what Colletti gives him to work with. Sure, I don't like that he relies on veterans so much, but Jeter wasn't a veteran when Torre got the team (Jeter isn't the greatest defensively today, but that's a subject for another team's blog).
Firing him would just make us prone to continuing the McCourt Revolving Door Philosophy that's led us nowhere to this point. There is indeed a problem with this team, but it's not the new guy, it's the guy who can't make up his mind between playing the youth and bringing in past-their-prime vets to stunt the growth.
I'm not averse to trades if we get people in their primes. But if we trade a Betemit for a Proctor again (or in this case, an Ethier for a Borowski), I'll be pushed into next spring the way Boston's seemingly pushed the Lakers into next fall (apologies to Plaschke).
… But now seeskybout2rain's Yeager-as-Manager proposition has me in a daydream… I'd still give Torre the respect to keep him on for at least one more season, but like I said, I don't think Torre is the problem.
First of all – I vote for tomorrow now, since the 5 inning has already passed, but I will settle for tomorrow morning – 6am. lol!! Loved the voting – wish I could have voted sooner, but I was watching my son pitch a 6 inning shut out for his summer highschool team (they ended in a tie 2-2 after 7 innings because of time constraints), but I guess it didn't go so well for Penny today. From your reactions, he pitched like crap. I must say I was pretty proud of our young players today, especially Mr. Ethier (NICE JOB ANDRE!!!). It was nice to see him break out of his 1 for 16 slump in a big way. I think jhall brought him and our young players some ITD love today.
Sara – I would have loved to comment on the sock thing, but all I could do was laugh when reading about it. After seeing highlight clips on website I'm not so sure. However, Andre will probably stick with it until he has another "0 for" day. Like you said, anything that helps the team. I really thought they had this game, and then the implosion of Penny just killed me.
I'm not going to comment on the veterans today, but I will say the kids did a great job getting their hits,runs and RBI's today. Hopefully they will do the same tomorrow when Kershaw pitches.
As for jhall, I hope his trip wasn't all too bad. To look at it positively, the kids did well for him, and he has said all along, as long as the kids are playing and doing their best, he would take them over the vets any day.
Pierre 0-5 today with and RBI and a K – enough said. Sorry, I commented on a veteran 🙂
eric – if you didn't get my post from the previous thread – great job in listing all the songs. I counted 126, not including any done today, but then it was 5:30 in the morning, so I could have been off by a couple.
PierreEW- I'm trying to say positive, and you are right in that everybody is currently struggling on offense. Hopefully today will spark, at least our young players (socks or no socks) to start carrying the team because maybe they are starting to realize they are on their own and need to start fighting for themselves because there's nobody out there helping them right now (meaning management and veterans). I said it last night, and it hurts to say, but the Giants have found a way to mix the veterans with the young core they have, and the veterans are stepping up to the plate and being true veterans for their young ball players. Omar Viscal stealing home was a classic example, and not only that, he is out there whenever they need him and puts 100% effort every time. The veterans certainly aren't playing the blame game(not in the public eye anyway) – the veterans are admitting when they are screwing up, and they are treating it like a team effort and not a young vs. old problem.
sorry for the long post, but I had a lot to say
enchanted, crash, jungar and company – always fun to read when you guys are going back and forth.
I'm not saying that it's all Torre's and Ned's fault. There has been some bad luck and bad performances in this situation, too In fact, IMO, managers get too much credit when they win and too much of the blame when they lose. Managers are heavily dependent on the performances they get from their players. But they are in charge of putting players in a position where players can succeed. Ultimately, they are respnsible. I'm only interested in getting fair value in prospects for the vets we would trade not other team's veteran rejects or salary dumps.
"Penny said he felt discomfort while warming up in the bullpen. He's been bothered by a sore shoulder for most of the season and has been taking pain medication before every start since early in the year. Penny is 0-7 in his last eight starts.
"'I knew I probably shouldn't have went out there,' Penny said. 'But that would have put the team in a horrible position.'
"He's scheduled to fly back to Los Angeles on Sunday for a MRI on Monday."
Something most of us on the blog figured all along…
I just got done reading the same thing about Penny. So, instead of saying anything because he didn't want to put the team in a horrible position, he chose to not say anything and put his team in an even worse situation knowing what kind of losing streak we are on. Like you said kpookiemon – we knew it all along.
BTW – lefty pitching tomorrow for the tigers – I guess Ethier will sit once again after having a great outing.
Here's a thought – sit Pierre for a day and let Ethier work on his batting with lefties. The worse he could do is go 0-5 like Pierre did today, and then we could see a defense of Young, Kemp and Ethier. Oh, I forgot, how many times have we suggested it – an unfathomable number I would imagine. LOL!!!
OK, Penny tried to pitch though pain, but didn't his pitching these last several starts put the team in a horrible (winning) position as well? I can't see where it helps the team any when you're serving up batting practice.
I just don't get ANYBODY'S mentality on this team, be it front office, manager & coaches, or players.
enchanted – like kpookiemon said, this board has suspected this all along. Isn't it getting a little tiring being treated like we, the fans, are stupid and can't see these things? Some of these things that are happening(especially injury reports) are just blatant misjudgement, management or whatever you want to call it, and assuming we are all idiots and don't know the difference.
Penny is saying between the lines what we all feel. It's time to take care of medical issues becasue this team is in transition and in NO position to contend. If I'm Penny, Furcal, Schmidt, Jones or even Nomar, I'd say to myself, "Why rush?" I'd rather get healthy and look toward 2009. That's PRECISELY why I'd start the youth movement NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Be sellers over the next month and let's move on to the next Dodger chapter. If Ned, Joe, and Frank can't see that, then why are we even wasting our time, emotions and dollars on this debacle? FRANK! We won't hate you if you give Ned the directive to sell…but no kids! DO NOT TRADE THE FUTURE. Trade the veteran gristle while it's still worth something. Addition by subtraction. Whatever you want to call it. Heck, for that matter, we won't hate you if you give Ned the boot, and let soemone else create the new chapter.
Sounds like your son's pitching very well nells!
Josh – here's something constructive… have Logan White or one of his scouts checkout nells' son and keep him on the radar these next few seasons for when he's a senior.
I've NEVER seen a team with as many major injuries as the D's have been since the wonderful Stan Conte took over. Whether he's incompetent or lazy I don't know, but I do know Schmidt couldn't have been right when they signed him. Andrew was not only fat, but I doubt a golfball sized wart appears overnight that he didn't discover it. Nomore's fragile anyway, but the length of the injury is suspect. Bennett's mystery injury (not that we care in a ballclub sense, but I don't like anyone to get injured.) Furcal's back. Then they blow smoke up everyone's heiny about not being serious, or they had a minor setback. Thank God the young guys (Abreu excepted, and that one's weird too) are all strong and healthy. I personally wouldn't let Conte treat a hang nail. I'll say right now, Penny's MRI – slight tear in the rotator cuff, out for the season. Ineffective in 2009.
And I do blame JoJo for this season so far. He may not have a lot to work with, but doesn't in the remotest sense play the best players. China or no, any baseball man that's been around the game for 50 years can't take ST and 2 months evaluating talent, and then trot out the BS line-ups JoJo does. If he plays talent over his own stupidity, we're at least at .500, possibly 3-4 games better than .500. He has a sick sense of loyalty to the vets that isn't justified, especially on this team. And since he loves them so much, perhaps he can use them as pall bearers because this season's dead.
Ahhhh, that feels better!!!
Here's a portion from the article above. It was just nice to see all of our young players mentioned.
Matt Kemp returned from his two-game suspension with an RBI infield single, but it was Andre Ethier who led the way with a home run, double and four RBIs. James Loney and Delwyn Young had three hits each, two of Loney's being doubles, in a 13-hit attack. Loney has a 12-game hitting streak, batting .405. Young is batting .345 in his last 12 games.
"Maybe it was a kick in the butt," said Ethier, a reference to the pregame meeting that included a guest appearance by visiting hitting coach Don Mattingly, and was described by manager Joe Torre as "a pep talk."
Maybe he ought to give the vets a pooptalk because they're all hitting irregularly…
BTW did no one get yesterday that Arnold Ziffel was the pig???
enchanted – you just crack me up!!!! LMAO
About Michael – he's a giants fan, and right now there is no way in h*ll he would play for the Dodgers, but I told him if the right offer came along, he would – lol!!. Not only did he pitch six innings today, he was closer yesterday and pitched two innings with no runs scored. He has his bad days like all pitchers, but it hasn't happened in a while. Also, he's coming off a broken arm in which the cast was taken off in the later part of May. We just hope the coaches look out for him and not over pitch him this summer.
reposting the article – I always try to click on it to see if it worked, but it didn't so here it is again. I saw my mistake I typed my comment in between the article copy shortcut.
Obviously has some good stuff if he's getting juniors and seniors out.
Sorry we couldn't scare up a win jhall. At least the kids did well!! Glad you're spending Sunday with Dad. I lost mine a few years ago and would love to be able to sit and watch a game with him again.
Just sit right back & you'll hear a tale, a tale of a fateful team
That started from this general manager with his tiny brain.
his mate was a mighty scouting man, The roster old for sure.
twenty Five passengers set sail that day for another loss for sure,
another loss for sure
The veterans started getting old, his bat was missing balls,
If only for the courage of the fearless fans
The season would be lost,
The season would be lost.
The team's a-ground in the last place of this uncharted west
With joe torre
The colletti too,
The millionaire and his wife,
The chavez ravine
Here on McCourts pathetic team
Good one Dodge!
Now I have an image of a castrated bat…
Hey THAT'S the problem – castrated bats. Maybe we should have the BALL BOY check them out before tomorrow's game!! lol
LOL!!! enchanted!! Wow!! dodge – Gilligan's island. That fits our management/PVLs to a tell. LOL!!
supposed to be to a "tee" – sorry
I was just looking at that poll again that you guys mentioned at the beginning of this thread. Other than Furcal, the rest of them can stay on the DL for all I care. The sad thing is the one we want back won't be the one that comes back.
So, Lowe & Kent – gone at the trade deadline?? IMO both are going to be begging Ned. Lowe so he can run up his worth, and Kent to chase his ring. Lowe – Yankees. Kent – Cubs. What do we get in return??
First flattened Pierre and now ball-less bats – what can possibly be next?
snakes lost 12-3 🙂
gnats losing 2-0 in the 8th 🙂
flattened pierre, ball-less bats why not get the nomore bobble head thing going agin?
Maybe we can get the ballboy to hang some balls on the bats. While he's at it maybe he can hang some on Ned too and he'll deal Lowe, Pierre, and Kent. Unfortunately, none of the other PVLs have any value.
the old shortstop can't field and is hitting less than HU but HU can play some defence and Sweeny must go . Penny must be hurting he shouldn't be this bad ,and Mattingly should stay for a while
I've a question, and this goes back to Torre's competency…
Why would you have DY DH when he's obviously a better outfielder than JP? Why not the other way around so that you have a stronger defensive team? I know there's a problem with mentioning JP and Hitter in the same sentence, but other than that?
Of course, why would you PH for a guy hitting .167 with a guy that's hitting .118?
Is it me???
LMAO!!!! Too many visuals – LOL!!!!
Of course the obvious question to the latter would be – why do you have a .167 and a .118 hitter on the team in the first place?
Yeah nells. And I want him to hang some football sized ones on Ned so that the next time other GM's come-a knockin', they'll be able to see Ned's all business now and will stop trying to fleece him of our young guys for their old PVLs.
It will be fun around here when Nomar gets back and replaces Berroa, for as long as he stays healthy as we wait for Furcal.
I can just see those post –no more nomar–and the like.
Maybe you'll give Pierre a break.
O.K. boys & girls, got to get up early tomorrow a big nostalgia trip to the Rockaways with the New York Transit Museum in ancient subway cars.
Hope the Dodgers are winning or won when I get back.
I want other GM's to cower in the office when Ned walks in a slams those puppies down on his desk with a resounding thud, and without even batting an eye says, "what do you want??"
Have fun PierresEW and we'll try and win one for you!!!
(You're probably right about Nomar too 🙂
I am really having a hard time wrapping my head around the management's love for Pierre (Juan). He gets countless accolades for the smallest remote things that he does, when other players from other teams that are in the same position, order in line-up, etc., are purely expected, not lavished over.
I just read PierreEW's post up above – I'm sorry, I couldn't help it talking bad about JP 🙂
Okay I've been saying this all season but I KNEW that something was wrong with Penny. I have been waiting for Penny to say, "oh, by the way I've been pitching hurt all season." Well, now I know; we all do. I was ready to chew nails when he gave up the lead (THE LEAD MIND YOU; SOMETHING WE HAVEN'T HAD IN AGES) in the 4th today. This was absolutely sickening. What is more sickening is that he just proved what I've been afraid of all along; PENNY IS HURT AND HAS BEEN HURT ALL ALONG!!! I think it's stupid but I hear from jocks (and wannabe jocks) that, "oh, he doesn't want to admit there's anything wrong; he wants to prove that he's tough and can play through the pain." And take your team down with it??? Yes, I could say that I'm never going to another game again or I'm going to boycott the Dodgers until they put a winning team on the field, but that would just be wrong. First of all, I love the Dodgers and I love the game of baseball too much to ever stay away from it. And I would be called a fair-weather fan if I waited until the Dodgers fielded a winning team and I am anything but a fair-weather fan. But the fact that Penny has been trying (big emphasis on the word trying) to pitch hurt is beyond my comprehension.
YOU GO GIRL!!! That's how you do it – let it go!!! lol!! 🙂
thx dnel,
I just get soooooooooo frustrated at the lack of hitting and scoring that when we DO break out, the pitching is horrible!!!
You all may not believe it, but I really am a patient person by nature, but the Dodgers are so trying my patience. That's why I didn't sign on immediately after the game. I was too frustrated and I didn't want to take it out on everyone here.
I think we are a lot alike. The funny thing is that at school I am always given students that need a patient teacher, and if they saw how I react sometimes to the bonehead decisions our management makes for our team, they would be floored. I thought for sure this was going to be a win today when Andre hit his ground rule double, and then bamb!! The next thing I see when I check the score, we are losing!! All I kept thinking is what this board, (especially jhall because he was there) was thinking. Actually I knew what they were thinking. Man that was a frustrating game, and I didn't even get to see it. I was watching game day on my phone. The people around me thought I was crazy I'm sure. I, however, am very proud of how are kids did today. Like I said earlier, it kind of seems like they might be on their own to figure out a way to win because their veteran leaders sure aren't helping them, not to mention their manager or coaches.
thx for the words dnel,
I've been reading your words and our little exchanges from time to time and I thought the same thing, that I think we are a lot alike. I just haven't mentioned it before. Oh, btw wouldn't that be a trip to have your son pitching for the Dodgers someday! I know he's a gnats fan, but just tell Michael that most players that make it to the big leagues don't start playing for they're favorite teams! They may end up that way at the end of their career, but it doesn't start out that way!
I was thrilled to see that the kids played so well today and so outplayed the so-called vets. I can't remember if I actually posted this here or I was just thinking of posting, but I really think that it would be in their best interests as well as our own if we traded Pierre, Kent or Lowe (or a combination thereof). They can get something that they're not going to get from the 2008 Dodgers and we get the kids to play together for the rest of the year! Everyone wins! I'm just not sure if management sees it that way. Maybe we can get the tools we need to make a run in 2008 but to really contend in 2009!
Josh, please forward my comments to the Dodgers' brass and see what they think. I'm a die hard Dodger fan; always have been and always will be. I've been watching the Dodgers for close to 50 years and to say it's been frustrating that we have only managed one post-season victory and haven't won a post-season series in 20 years is sickening!
I grew up in a household that was all LA fans (Dodgers, Lakers, Rams), and the only LA team I stuck with was the Dodgers. The earliest memory I have of really wanted to know the Dodgers like I do today is when Steve Yeager was catcher. So, when it was brought up earlier today thinking that as a possible management solution, I was pretty excited eventhough it is probably just wishful thinking. I am a big Scioscia fan too, but I think that ship has already sailed, unfortunately. He has done some wonderful things with that club down the road from Dodger Stadium, and I just wish our management would look into what they are doing and try to copy if necessary. However, they got the better end of the deal in players. They got Hunter, and we got Andruw – big deal!!!
Yeah, I get reminded of the Torii/Andruw signings from my husband. He's also an Angels fan as well as a Cubby. And yes, the Angels have a great team. I don't mind watching them or even rooting for them; as long as they're not playing the Dodgers. Then I revert back to my lifelong passion for Dodger winning baseball!!! I was a huge Scioscia fan during his playing days and I even love him as a manager; he is a great manager. Too bad the Dodgers don't still have him; darn it News Corp.
Well, gotta go. I'm getting tired. I was going to leave you with my favorite Brad Penny quote from today:
"I'm not doing the team any good and not doing myself any good. I've got to see what's going on." Ya think Penny???
Goodnight !!
Had to record the game today and just finished watching it.
I feel like slitting my wrists. Man, I shouldn't even joke about that. It really hurts to watch this team right now though. And to see Brad Penny like the shell of his old self… it's pitiful to say the least. Proctor and Sweeney need to be gone as of yesterday. Why Joe insists on using Proctor instead of Kuo in long middle relief is beyond me. What did Kuo do to deserve "mop up" status anyway?
Doubt this will happen, but this would be my ideal lineup until we get Nomar back. No sense in trotting Trigger out there if he can't find his way on base. Yeah… they also call him Slappy.
DeWitt, 3B
Ethier, RF
Kent, 2B
Loney, 1B
Martin, C
Kemp, CF
Young, LF
LaRoche, DH
Berroa, SS
On June 13, 1973 Alston penciled Garvey, Lopes, Russell and Cey into the Dodgers starting line-up for the first time. They lost. The L.A. Times began calling them the Little Blue Bicycle (in contrast to the Big Red Machine)–but they were good, winning 95 games but still finishing second to the Reds. 95 wins and no playoff!!! They went 58-42 after June 13. The Dodgers would lose the World Series the next year to the A's…and in the next six years they went to the World Series three times, finally winning in '81.
Today is June 14, 2008. 35 years. Frank or Ned or Joe has got to pick up the phone. One appendage of the tri-headed beast has got to speak up…have the guts…man the trigger…it's time for the Dodgers to molt. Shed skin. Get even younger.
Easler said he asked Manager Joe Torre to call a meeting for the position players, mainly so he could remind the players to relax. Easler said that he asked Torre, special assignment coach Don Mattingly, Ethier and Russell Martin to speak.
"I know these guys are capable," Easler said.
They certainly looked that way against Eddie Bonine, who picked up a win in his major league debut even though he gave up six runs and nine hits in 5 1/3 innings.
Ethier said he thought the meeting was beneficial.
"It's tough to have an identity if nobody's stepping forward," Ethier said. "Sometimes you need someone to point it out and show the way."
I guess we would have to assume from this meeting that Martin and Ethier were called to be leaders for the team. Isn't that supposed to be the job of our veterans? Not that I mind. We all think Russell is Captain anyway, but if management is leaving the leadership role to our young players, Martin and Ethier, than why do we need the veterans – get rid of them! It is becoming more and more obvious that the veterans are useless both on and off the field.
more information on Penny – makes you want to say "I knew it!"
Hey Eric! they took your work on all the transactions you posted a couple weeks ago.
My last late night reading: Not a real positive article, but it does point out our one big flaw – Ned Coletti.
Here's the portion of the article that talks about Coletti-
Unfortunately, the Dodgers offense is now exposed for what it is: an average hitting team with below average power who had a tendency to strand runners on the basepads.
In response to this, in particular the lack of productivity in the shortstop position, what does the fearless GM Ned Colletti do? He's not afraid to pick up yet another hack. This time the hack is in the form of Angel Berroa, the 2003 AL Rookie of Year, from the Kansas City Royals. That alone should have raised alarms, but the fact that Berroa couldn't make the team the last several seasons really should have stopped Colletti.
Get this. The Royals wanted Berroa gone so badly they decided to pay most of his inflated salary.
While some may call me a clown for my ripping of the Lakers, the clown nose for this town should definitely go to Ned Colletti. He admittedly doesn't look at statistics instead favoring how he feels about a player. It's now his third year as the GM, and now it's time to hold him to the fire. But there are 88 more games to do that.
It never ceases to amaze me how self-sacrificing these veterans are who go out and play hurt for the "good of the team", even if it means losing 7 games in a row. They hide the hurts so well while taking anti-inflamatories, not that it seems such a great task to do that in front of Conte. Maybe Kuo will now actually get the chance to pitch in a meaningful game – perhaps even to start. I don't think we'll miss the Penny that we have been seeing the past month or so. The only thing I'll miss about him is that we have one less trading chip before the July deadline.
That was the most disturbing article I have read in the last few weeks only because we have seen so much of the media focus on the young players and their inabilities, and for our management to let that happen on top of hiding all these pretty serious injuries (Furcal, Penny, etc), is just plain irresponsible and not having any concern for the other players. It makes you wonder what's coming next. Hopefully a good thing – Ned gets fired!!
Good Morning Dodger Fans, and Happy Father's Day to all the Dads
It's morning music time, and this song was done in the hopes that one day our dreams will come true
To the tune of "If You're Happy and You Know It" –
We will be happy when Ned is gone, that's for sure
We will be happy when Ned is gone, that's for sure
We will be happy when Ned is gone, then
it won't be hard to move on
We will be happy when Ned is gone, that's for sure
We will be happy if all the vets get to trade
We will be happy if all the vets get to trade
We will be happy if all the vets
just all get out of the west
We will be happy if all the vets get to trade
We will be happy when all the kids get to play
We will be happy when all the kids get to play
We will be happy when all the kids
find their way and get their hits
We will be happy when all the kids get to play
If all these things can happen, we will win
If all these things can happen, we will win
If all these things can happen,
then the best is yet to come
If all these things can happen, we will win
Right on, dnel, but I'll settle for first things first – like your first stanza when Ned is GONE. When that finally happens, all other good things become possible.
Do it now, Frank. FIRE NED, and a big cloud will lift off Dodger Stadium.
This really has no poinancy right now, but it just kinda fell together:
Aaaaaare we gonna see you there tonight?
Ahhhh out in center, left or right?
Aaaaaare you gonna let it all hang out?
Fat bottomed 'Druw you make the Dodger world go round (your big butt)
(Guitar and heavy beat)
I was just a skinny lad
Once was good but now I'm bad
But I knew Ned and so I left Atlanta G
Grew a hefty big fat fanny
Lost a step out of my tranny
Krispy Kreme ya dun made a fat boy out of me
(Guitar, heavy beat, clap-clap)
Hey hey!
I've been swinging with my bat
Across the plate, around the fat
I've missed every nasty slider down away
But the beauty of it all
Still get my million dollars haul
I don't care 'bout what any blogger's got to say
(Quick drum solo)
Ahhhhh will you be playin' there tonight?
Ahhhh out in center, left or right?
Aaaaaare you gonna let it all hang out?
Fat bottomed 'Druw you make the Dodger world go round
Fat bottomed 'Druw you make the Dodger world go round
(Guitar solo)
Hey listen here
Now with your spoon and with your fork
Try some salad, try some pork
Ain't no fatty dudes in this locality (I tell you)
Bein' thin would bring us pleasure
Not an oversized tape measure
Great big Andruw try not to hit one forty three
Aaaaaaaare you gonna be in there tonight
Ahhhhh out in center, left or right
Aaaaaaaare you gonna let it all hang out?
Fat bottomed 'Druw you make the Dodger world go round (your big butt)
Fat bottomed 'Druw you make the DODGER world go round
Get off the bench and try
Fat bottomed 'Druw
Get 'em plowboy
Fat bottomed 'Druw…
(Guitar end.)
Good one nells! – there is no musical genre that's safe!!!
Baseball is one game where "hope always seems to spring eternal" – so, why not dream that Druw comes back 220'ish (lbs. that is) and ready to rack them up. The reality is that the only thing he's likely to rack up is an extra slab of spare ribs.
ENCHANTED!!!!!!! Queen is always a good one to get up to.
Has anyone done Bohemian Rhapsody? – that would be a fun one to do.
And as for mine, thank MLK -he's the one that started the children's song genre with "Brown Bear, Brown Bear." – still laughing about that one.
Isn't that a fact messagebear – If Josh wants a general theme of this board, getting rid of Ned is it. There will definitely be blue skies ahead when that happens. I said "when" instead of "if" because this is one dream that has to happen.
You put Logan White in, and you kick Ned out,
You put Logan White in, and you let him go to work,
You let the kids go play and you sell the PVL's,
That's what it's all about.
See if you can guess that tune! 🙂
Hokey Pokey!!!!
That's a good one mike!!!
I got this over at Dodger Thought – assuming this is the lineup – I guess we should be thankful it is AL and Ethier will get to bat (and it's now Sweeney), but why not put Ethier in the outfield and be the strong outfield with Young, Kemp and Ethier – hmmmmm!!! JUST DON'T GET IT!! JOE – WE DON'T GET IT!! Play the best outfielders – Pierre is not one of them.
Maza > LaRoche, I guess.
My bad – Russell is DHing – I assumed Young was in the lineup, and he's not.
This from Tony Jackson
LaRoche got hit in the face by a bad-hop grounder during BP and had a severe nosebleed, but he's fine.
LF Pierre
2B Maza
3B DeWitt
DH Martin
1B Loney
CF Kemp
RF Ethier
SS Berroa
C Ardoin
LH Kershaw
My mistake doesn't take away the fact that I want to see the best outfielders, which doesn't include Pierre. You do realize Pierre has still not had a day off?
First off…I wasn't happy about Torre, and his staff to begin with. They should have hired Kirk Gibson to manage, and to bring in a different pitching coach (Orel maybe) because Honeycutt is not the answer.
Has anyone taken a real look at Pierres numbers since he became the lead off man? With him at leadoff preceaded by the ptichers spot and the Need to use Borroa now you have an entire inning of outs bunched together. And when Toore makes the matter worse by putting in Maza to replace Kent…we get what get don't we. Should I bring up Sweeny not only getting at bats, but in the starting line up…Come On!
Replace the batting coach for starters.
Bench Pierre, and Maza, live with Borroa.
Play LaRoche, DeWitt, Young, Andre, Kemp, Loney
By Request for Nells:
Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy?
Caught in a downslide, No escape from Ned Col-let-ti
Andruw's big thighs, Penny lights up the skies you see,
I'm just a blogger, no con-struc-tiv-ity
The season's easy come, easy go, seldom highs, many lows
Anyway the vets blow doesn't really matter to Ned, to Ned.
Pierre, a dead horse man, popped up to left again
But steals him second now and then
Sweeney, hitting one eighteen
And Nomore getting brittler everyday
Bennett, ooh-ooh-ooh-oo, and now Berroa too
Its Neddy's P V Ls that give us sorrow
We're so screwed, we're so screwed, but to Ned it doesn't matter
Jason, who's career is done
Has setbacks that's a sign, his shoulder's aching all the time
Goodbye, ev'rybody, Lowe's got to go
Gotta leave us all behind to chase the loot
Raffy, ooh ooh-ooh-oo, please get better soon
I really wish you'd never been hurt at all
(guitar transition)
I see a huge silhouetto of a man
Andruw Jones, Andruw Jones, will you be eating for two?
Oh no Proctors's pitching, Bloggers start their bitching now
(Jeffy Kent.) Jeffy Kent. (Jeffy Kent.) Jeffy Kent, Jeffy Kent its time to go
Its Neddy-Co-O-O-O. I'm just a GM nobody loves me
He's just a poor GM from a poor pedigree
Spare all the D's from his monstrosities
Easy come, easy go, will you let Ned go
Frank McCourt! No, I will not let him go
(Let him go!) Frank McCourt! I will not let him go
(Let him go!) Frank McCourt! I will not let him go
(Let him go.) I will not let him go
(Let him go.) I will not let him go. (Let him go.) Ah
No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
(Oh Logan White, Logan White.) Logan White says, let him go
Beelzebub has a devil put aside for Ned, for Ned, for Ned .
So you think you can stop me from getting old veterans
Guess you'd better stock up on your Ex-ced-er-an
Oh, baby, my vets carry us , baby
Just gotta play them, just gotta play them all the time-a
(guitar transition)
Nothing really matters, Anyone can see
Nothing really matters
Nothing really matters to Ned
All his deals blow-o
Dodgers need to manufacture runs. Maza should have bunted!
Just a few words to let you know you are very much appreciated for your talent and creativity. 🙂
Thanks nells – Ned's an inspiring subject.
Does it make sense to anybody on here to reward DY's 3 hits yesterday by siting him on the bench today? Torre is a major league idiot.
Torre is not, I repeat, not a person to manage the Los Angeles Dodgers. Is there anyway we can trade him back to the Yankees for anyone. Let him take Pierre with him, he loves to play him so much.
Exactly what are Torre's credentials? That he can take the best players money can buy and win 4 championships in 12 years, and none in the last several even though he's had the same caliber of players? Pathetic.
I thought it would be Ethier, but I figure it's a Pierre thing. It seems like everything lately goes back to Pierre needing to play everyday. I was expecting Young as the right fielder and Sweeney as DH to be honest. Joe just won't put the best outfielders on the field – It's a Pierre love thing – or could it possibly be blackmail? – lol!
Like I said before, JP's must have compromising photo's of Ned actually making a good deal.
LMAO!!!! anything is possible enchanted. I have never seen so much love for a player – somethings up~ If you think about it, one day he was riding pine, the next day he never leaves the lineup. Any of the theories that this board has come up with are not in left field (ha, ha ) – well the theory happens to be in left field – lol!!!
enchanted – possible lightening strike perhaps? 🙂
I am so bad – lol!!
The team record with JP leading off speaks for itself 14-23. I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to figure out that it ain't workin'.
And really – Maza over LaRoche at 2B? DY on the bench after going 3 for 4?
I honestly believe that ANY other manager has this team at .500 worst, and a reverse of the current record at best. Torre hasn't instilled winning, he's instilled entitlement of veterans to play when nothing suggests that they warrant it, and what's worse, he's taken once enthusiastic kids and broken their spirit so that we have unsure ballplayers who are probably afraid of their own shadow for fear that Torre would play their shadow over them – he does it all the time playing veterans who are a shadow of their former selves.
Probably why LaRoche is sitting this one out. From Tony Jackson:
"LaRoche got hit in the face by a bad-hop grounder during BP and had a severe nosebleed, but he's fine."
This is also what happens when you have two PR guys (McCourt and Ned) making PR moves. Oh look I got the highest priced FAs. Oh look I got a HOF manager. Is not about what the team needs – I doubt either of these two boobs have a concept of that. Its all photo ops and PR to get 4 million butts in the seats. Oh, we're losing? Well let's go out and get another big name so we don't lose out on any ticket sales. Meanwhile the future of this franchise is regressing and it won't be long until people like Logan White and Kim Ng leave for greener pastures. Then we'll see if Ned can put together a winner with no upside veterans and no farm either.
new thread !!!!


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text:
The Vegetarian Option: Upi Jaya
Dining out meat-free.
I'd heard that for authentic Indonesian I should head up to Elmhurst and check out Upi Jaya, so on a recent January night I headed up to Queens, with Carey's exhortations to beware of shrimp paste and other hidden non-vegetarian ingredients ringing in my ears. There were actually several vegetarian options on the menu, devoid of both shrimp paste and fish sauce, and with the aid of my friendly server I was able to put together a nice little feast.
Among the appetizers she had a few recommendations, the first being this tahu isi ($4)—tofu stuffed with vegetables, lightly battered, and then deep-fried. The filling of shredded carrot, cabbage, and bean sprouts had a slightly smoky flavor from the wok, and the batter added a nice richness to the tofu. As with many Southeast Asian cuisines, the condiments helped make the dish. The tiny chilies on the plate are no mere decoration, but add fiery heat to every mouthful (if you are brave enough to mix them in with the vegetables). There was also sweet soy sauce, almost as thick and as sweet as molasses, to help balance out the savory flavors.
That sweet soy sauce also worked very well with the perkedel kentang ($4), deep-fried potato fritters. My server described it to me as mashed potatoes, deep fried, which is fairly accurate. There wasn't much flavor in the potatoes, but the crispy outer layer was a good counterpoint to the creamy interior.
When it came to entrees there were several things that intrigued me. Although my server kept trying to get me to order the gado gado, I was afraid that the steamed vegetables would be too bland, even with their peanut sauce. Instead I ordered the lontong sayur ($6.50, pictured at the top), and thank goodness I did—it was one of the best dishes I've eaten in a long while. You start with a spicy, sweet, and creamy curry, coating a mix of vegetables and sticky rice cakes. Then you add a hard boiled egg, deep-fried just long enough to give it a golden, chewy outer crust, and top it with hot chilies. Then you add the onion crackers (in a non-vegetarian version, these would undoubtedly be shrimp crackers), savory and crisp, which began to snap, crackle and pop as they hit the liquid curry. It satisfied nearly every food craving I could think of; even the fact that it was served at just a hint above room temperature did not impede my enjoyment of the dish at all. I could eat this every day.
Another dish that intrigued me was the belado jengkol, described as a pickled "dash," or nut, in a chili sauce. However, my server refused to sell it to me on the grounds that it smells terrible and has the texture of a hard rubber band. That kind of pitch would normally sound like a challenge to me, but I could see that she would not relent so instead I ordered the sayur nangka, curried jackfruit. I have long heard that jackfruit makes an excellent vegetarian entree. Unfortunately the restaurant was out of jackfruit, so my server instead recommended the sayur daun singkong ($6), made with kale. Here the kale was cooked expertly, highlighting its cabbage-y flavor, though the curry was much milder than the one with the rice cakes. Taking bites of the kale after that spicier curry was a good way to cool down the inside of my mouth.
I left Upi Jaya very full, but more importantly with a better understanding and a fondness for Indonesian food. If the restaurant wasn't so far from my home I would be there all the time; as it is I'm trying to figure out how many visits it would take for me to become a regular, and how long after that it would take before they allowed me to try that pickled nut dish. In the meantime, there's a lot more on the menu for me to sample.
Upi Jaya
76-04 Woodside Avenue, Elmhurst NY 11373 (map) 718-458-1807
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text:
In honor of Philip Roth's upcoming 80th birthday, New York asked a panel of "30 literati" (including five women, fyi) how much they loved the esteemed novelist. Do they loooooove him? Or do they reeeallllly loooooove him?
I appreciate Roth as much as the next Jewish lit major. But this is insane. Sample questions include: "Does Philip Roth deserve to win the Nobel Prize?" (Everyone said yes, except for Brian Evenson, who gave an obnoxious long-winded variation on "yes") and "Is Roth a misogynist?" Here's part of Keith Gessen's response:
"Does Roth hate women? What does that mean? If you hated women, why would you spend all your time thinking about fucking them? I do think he sometimes thought, as many men have also sometimes thought, that women were a foreign country."
It's too much.