text:
"Here the ways of men divide. If you wish to strive for peace of soul and happiness, then believe; if you wish to be a disciple of truth, then inquire." ― Friedrich Nietzsche
the second pic is not visible.ReplyDelete
Very interesting post. I am not sure how representative of India are the people who blog or participate in surveys. Apparently, the largest support percentage of support for Bush outside USA is in India. I am not sure about the sample. There seems to be a very vocal group of "Vatham, Pitham, Aryavartham" type in the blogosphere. But there are also people like Madhukar Shukla, Annie Zaidi. Personally, I noticed a lot of anti-Moslem sentiments in highly educated colleagues ( Hindus as well as Western Christians). But I have also noticed more Indian Moslems in good IT jobs abroad than before.I do not know whether discussions will help to eradicate these prejudices and I keep hoping that they will die a natural death some day.ReplyDelete
Personally, I think Sujai Karampuri is a desperate moron. And as a desperate moron, Sujai follows Godwin's Law:
It's not true, you have a real sadistic keyboard ! These views could only be that of a scant minority of bjp supporters.ReplyDelete
I totally agree on the Hitler part of your post. Well said.ReplyDelete
Absolutely, on the target. Even among those who would not vote the BJP, there are people who would idolize Hitler. More than Hindu supremacy, which is rather a mainstream fascination since recent times, most people are simply misguided missiles, owing to their resentments against the power structure of India, and failure of Indian administration to 'educate' people about WWII.ReplyDelete
What crap, the fact that Sujai is trying to associate Hitler with any Indian who opposes the left belies history. The Nazi Party was the National SOCIALIST Party. In the mud-slinging of Indian politics, it's the Left which has quickly rushed to declare anyone it dislikes as fascist -- Godwin's Law. Since when are the Left the inheritors of the anti-fascist mantle? Look at Sujai's ridiculous graph -- he's comparing opposition to medical quotas with support for Hitler. That opportunistic slander, based purely on his own warped perceptions, sums up what his credibility is worth. It's LESS THAN ZERO.ReplyDelete
Hmmm... your analysis might be largely true. But I take issue with the idea that diaspora Indians are more racist. They may be in the case of America, where there's a lot of immigration but I'd say here in the UK relations are quite good.ReplyDelete
Dear san:
I would appreciate if you own up your comments. You have blocked people from looking at your profile and you use anonymous id.
In future, I would not like to publish comments from people who cannot own up their opinions.
I think this is a bit far fetched. Even if the dangers that you see might be well found but the comparision to Adolf Hitler seems way too much. It seems more like a pre meditated attack and a desire to show people not sharing your viewpoint in bad light.
You are right about Indians not hating Hitler as much as the world does and one example of that is the Hitler's Cross restaurant that recently opened in Mumbai.
As usual the post is interesting but didn't think you would resort to this to sell your viewpoint.
Dear Polite Indian:
My hypothesis that there is a correlation between the
groups carrying the stated sentiments may appear
far-fetched only because no study or survey has been
done to check this. I have expressed my opinion,
which comes from my experiences talking to and interacting with different
people on these topics, that there is an underlying
belief system which is common to all these groups- a sense of supremacy, fear of other kinds of people, and lack of tolerance towards opposing views. People who harbor these beliefs do not find it difficult to admire a person like Adolf Hitler. Compounded with the problem of lack of formal education of WWII crimes, it becomes even more easy to admire him.
I am not comparing anyone or any group to Adolf Hitler or his Nazi Party. In India, admiration for Adolf Hitler is not considered bad, and therefore my hypothesis cannot be assumed to be an attempt to show someone in bad light. It is not an attempt to insult someone either. I think it is a feeble attempt to ask some hard questions for us to check if indeed such correlation exists. If so, what dangers do we see in continuing to harbor such sentiments? Dismissing it right away will not allow us to even think about it.
I do not agree that I am 'trying to sell my viewpoint' by resorting to some gimmick- this is just a blog where I track my thoughts and opinions so that I can ask myself and those who read certain hard questions. To read anything more into it is futile.
Dear Sujai,
If you say that you are not resorting to gimmicks I will take your word for it.
You must understand that blogging, however personal it might be, is a form of journalism and a it is also becoming a great means of expression. This yields power and as you know, "with power comes responsibility". I am not saying that you are being irresponsible but imagine if few bloggers took this story and posted blogs linking to this one with catchy headlines such as Anti-Reservationists - Hitlers of India or Muslim haters - Hitlers of today and so on. No matter if this is a wild hypothesis, there is always a lot of credibility attached to a person's hypothesis based on his past writings. I must say that your writing is impressive.
Lot of people can brush this aside and say It is my blog and I will do what I feel like This attitude might be OK for trivial issues but when dealing with bigger social issues we would have to be a bit more careful.
I hope I am making sense without pointing a finger at you.
Dear Polite Indian:
I agree that a blogger has to be responsible (because it can be read by anyone and hence is not as personal anymore).
Having said that- should I refrain from writing my thoughts just because it will put us Indians in the negative light?
I want us to introspect. And while we are questioning ourselves against all yard-sticks, we need not be worried as to how others think. Questioning ourselves is only the first step towards building a mature state.
Just ponder over this- where do you find the biggest critics of US? and where do we find the biggest critics of Britain?
(My answers are- in US and Britain respectively).
"Hence the contradiction- how can we glorify Indian Army under British which defeated the Japanese Army supported by Netaji and his INA? Conveniently, we decided to completely ignore our participation, role and involvement in WWII and instead chose to highlight achievements of INA (Indian National Army)."
The role of the Indian National Army was highlighted because they chose to oppose a greedy colonial power which drained and looted India, caused millions of deaths in great famines (a scale of death comparable to, and even greater, than the Holocaust) while it fattened the backs of its own people at their cost and NOT because they supported Adolf Hitler and his methods. Sachin Tendulkar belonged to the Indian cricket team while it was captained by Mohd. Azharuddin but just because he belonged to the team, it doesn't mean Sachin supported Mohd. Azharuddin or Ajay Jadeja in match fixing.
Hitler had his own plans. The Japanese had theirs. The Italians had theirs. Just because they were allies doesn't mean they were all working towards the same goal - establishing the supremacy of the socalled "Germanic race." Likewise, the INA participated merely because of their own interest - to drive the British out of India - and NOT to kill or support the killing of "inferior races" as you may like to believe. In any case, even the Allies participated in great atrocities during the War. Arguably, the biggest atrocity/war crime in history was committed by the Allied powers themselves when the United States dropped nuclear weapons on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, killing in two small strokes, a number even the Holocaust wouldn't probably have in 72 hours. Also, these bombings are glorified in the West. Most Americans (who also probably hate Hitler as you say) feel they did the right thing. Another example of Allied atrocities was the Soviet atrocities on Germans during and after the War. Going by your logic that Indians consciously glorify the INA because it fought alongside Nazis and supported Hitler and fascism, shall I also say that, you, because you admire the Indian soldiers who fought for the Allies in WWII, support the Soviet Rape, the forced labour of Germans by the SU, the forced expulsions of Germans by the SU, Soviet Gulag camps, and the nuclear bombardment of Japan? No, I wont because that is drawing the wrong conclusions and sadly, that is exactly what you have done.
"As a conscious decision, Indian people and its government chose to highlight the not-so-grand achievements of INA and Subhas Chandra Bose while meticulously ignoring the momentous achievements of Indian soldiers in WWII."
On the contrary, I have evidence to prove the achievements of Indian soldiers in the northeast in WWII were NEVER consciously ignored. I take you to Mr. Jaswant Singh's (one of your socalled "Hindu fascists") speech at India International Centre on July 20, 1999. He ended it saying:
"I close with the
poignant words of the memorial
at Kohima, that stands tall and
proud on a hill, commemorating
those who fell in another war:
"When you go home
Tell them of us
And say
For your Tomorrow
We gave our Today.""
Doesn't look like "meticulously ignoring the momentous achievements of Indian soldiers in WWII" to me.
Yes, maybe it wasn't so prudent to take the side of an army known for its war crimes but you cant deny, Sujai, that the efforts of the INA and other related mutinies in the BIArmy, Navy and Air Force also contributed towards Indian independence by precipitating British withdrawal from the subcontinent. So, let us not write them off as "not so grand" achievements. They were not like some freak incidents. They had a substantial effect.
"Second, we are fascinated with anyone approving anything Indian."
Any person would be fascinated with anyone approving anything that belongs to his/her country. That is normal human behaviour.
"Most Indians look way back into past, almost thousands years back, searching for moments of glory and grandeur, which is starkly missing in the contemporary history. Indians are extremely proud of their ancestry and wallow and bask in the dim warmth the ancient glory provides. The present is far too depressing lacking in any achievements."
Wrong! You yourself are the testimony to our achievements in contemporary history. Just after 60 years of independence, you are able to buy, maintain, access a computer with internet, own a cellphone, a TV, eat tons and tons of food, own a car/bike and use litres and litres of petrol, earn lakhs and lakhs of Rupees, live and work in A/C, rent an appartment, probably even grow millions of adipose cells around your tummy, gulp litres and litres of alcohol/beer, eat gallons of icecream and tonnes of chocolate, buy branded apparel, watch as many movies as you want, read as many books as you want and finally, have the freedom to speak out and say/write whatever the fuck you like even if it doesnt make sense etc. etc. etc. - something that would've been unimaginable 60 years back. And you're not the only one. You're just one among 250 million who share the same lifestyle. So, I don't need to look back thousands of years in time. I can stay in the present and still be proud. Most of the Indians you seem to target in your hypothesis actually do this. And it is not a false sense of pride. At the same time, it doesn't mean we are blind to the harsher realities.
"We love Germany, not because we are related to them in anyway but because they included us in some weird research of theirs to conclude that Indians are Aryans and Germans are Aryans too."
What research? I BET my entire life not even 1% of India's population knows something about some German-Aryan racial link research. I BET my life. Where do you work? How many people work there? 100/200? Do one thing. Make a questionnaire and find out and please tell me if even 5 or 6 people among them really know about the Aryan-German link. When we admire Germany, we admire today's Germany - it's efficiency, quality of their industry, their people etc. Genuine admiration is "Hindu fascism"?
"Don't we all know that even the infamous Swastika is borrowed from us?"
Few people actually know that. But if they borrowed it from us, how's it Indians' fault or "Hindu fascism"?!
"Adolf Hitler's 'Mein Kampf' is sold everywhere in India and is one of the popular books amongst college going students."
Hey, I read this line somewhere! I think you picked it up from a Mike Marquesse article. Tell you what, that article is one of the worst articles you'll ever have read. In any case, how the hell did you come to know? Did Sujai Karampuri perform an all-India survey? Did any other individual/firm do so? If so, then why cant Mr. Karampuri direct us to the source? We shall be happy to have a peek. I am an Indian just out of college, am familiar with the average Indian collegegoer's mentality and the last thing s/he would like to do is read a book like Mein Kampf.
"Most of them complain that our minorities are unnecessarily pandered and believe that excessive concessions are doled out to them."
I see nothing wrong with that. A secular nation shouldnt spend so much money on subsidizing religious travel. Almost 60 years after independence, we still don't have a Uniform Civil Code. What about Shah Bano? That is the exemplar. Any resentment against this sort of partiality towards a particular community on the above mentioned grounds is justified. That is merely asking for fairness and justice, not "Hindu fascism"!
"The Muslims go to different kind of schools and somehow are not part of the mainstream. It's as if they are living in a different India altogether."
Yes. If some Muslims go to different kind of schools, it is because they choose to and not because they're forced to. If they arent part of the mainstream, it's because they chose not to join the mainstrean and this section of Muslims should probably do some introspection as other minorities, the smaller and less powerful ones(Christians, Sikhs, Parsis, Jains), have shown great success in ALL fields. Maybe you should grab a copy of India Today's Aug. 14 edition.
Many Muslims go to Catholic schools also, btw. I come from such a school and almost half of my class were Muslim. Today, they're all part of the mainstream. Many are either working or in the US doing their Masters. There are numerous high class Muslim minority institutions in the country, some of which dole out brilliant scholars who really excel in their fields in India as well as abroad. Some of India's best known names in almost ALL fields are Muslims - the most well known being our brilliant "rocket man" - President APJ Abdul Kalam. "Hindu fascism"? Nazism? Different India?
"sense of supremacy, fear of unknown and intolerance of diversity."
I'm sorry? Intolerance of diversity? I'm sorry? Come again? India probably has more religions, sects, languages, dialects, ethnicities, cultures than any other country in the world. The next most diverse country, the United States, doesn't even come close. India is accepted world over (and not only by your socalled "Hindu fascists" and "Nazi admirers") as an example of multicultural diversity and peaceful coexistence and that is because tolerance of all people irrespective of religion is inherent in the Indian psyche. I only see a growing sense of secularism which will lead to more diversity.
On the other hand, I also see a dangerous trend of pseudo secularism setting in among a section of Indians, who refuse to see naked truth, who refuse to look beyond things and get carried away by a false sense of emotion and hence, develop prejudiced minds and belittle their own country (on matters it doesn't actually deserve to be belittled) in a manner which does little good to anybody. You are a prime example of this section of Indians.
The problem with the article you have linked to at the end is that it doesn't give proper reference to the Times of India article which said 17% of some students polled support Hitler. It doesn't even mention the date. So, how am I supposed to believe it's factual accuracy? The survey itself may not be scientifically valid because:
1. It doesn't mention which college?
2. It doesn't mention which religion those who were polled belonged to. Those polled might've as well been Christians, Sikhs and Muslims?
3. It doesn't mention the sample size.
4. It doesn't mention the criteria applied for taking the sample etc.
Even if we assume that the survey is scientifically valid, it doesn't support your hypothesis. Why?
1. Hitler purportedly represented discipline, efficiency, nationalism to these students. He might've as well represented coldblooded murder, racism and genocide to them? Analogy: It is widely accepted that terrorists are 'well trained', 'disciplined', 'sophisticated' etc. Just because I say so, does it mean I support the terrorists in spirit? Wrong conclusions again, I'm afraid.
2. Mahatma Gandhi was given no. 1 status. So, definitely, these students valued Gandhi's nonviolence more than Hitler.
If you want to criticize India, there are many genuine issues on which it deserves to be criticized, Sujai. But by equating Indians to Nazis, you went too far.
My answers are the same - US and Britain.
I am not saying we should not be critical of India or Indians. I am not saying we should not ask tough questions even if it puts us Indians in a negative light.
I am all for Introspection and this, as you say, is an important first step. Now while trying to achieve that well intended goal of making people introspect, I think the means that we adopt are also important.
We can
1) Follow peaceful and rational methods to achieve that goal.
2) We can arouse high passion by making huge statements and far fetched analogies.
3) Do whatever it takes.
This post in my view and strictly my view falls in the second category.
In short I want to emphasise that even though the end goal is good, the means employed to achieve the end goal should also be good.
What is good is again subjective.
You have given very good reasons why you would find Hitler admirers in India.
As you have already mentioned, Hitler admirers in India admire him because they are unaware of his war crimes.
Being a Hitler admirer is not a good thing but why are you holding their ignorance of WWII history against them?
If someone admires hitler despite being aware of his crimes(and agrees with his crimes) then that is an evil minded person.
I don't think anti reservationists or anti muslims are evil people.
I know it is not your intention to cast them as evil minded but to someone who knows WWII history that is exactly what a Hitler admirer looks like.
If in your post you draw an anology between Hitler admirers and anti reservationists then the above conclusion applies to anti reservationists as well.
This is what a wild hypothesis leads to...wild conclusions!!!
Now if such a hypothesis comes from a person who has made a reputation in doing this time and again then it can be easily ignored but if it comes from a rational mind who has made not so wild posts in the past, it is worth pointing out.
Dear Atlantean:
Thanks for taking time to write an elaborate criticism of my hypothesis. I am sure your answers will provide the necessary rebuttal other readers might be seeking.
At the end it is an hypothesis based on certain events, patterns, experiences and observations. My intention was to elicit introspection from Indians- not another tirade of defence. When a nation does not question itself or criticise itself by learning from history, it tends to brush off all the signs of danger and repeat similar mistakes of the past.
BTW, I do not know of any Mike Marquesse. When I borrow a sentence from an author I credit that author.
Dear Polite Indian:
While it is very natural for many in India to harbor anti-muslim & anti-reservation sentiments and admiration for Hitler (which are seemingly innocuous), I find that such feelings are based on other innate prejudices (those that I listed) which when harbored for too long can become extremely dangerous- as seen from pre-Nazi or any pre-fascist movement.
Those who harbor these sentiments are not evil- but without knowing (out of ignorance again) they are feeding into the elements that could be evil (in future).
Not knowing the consequences of harboring, nurturing and promoting certain prejudices could (sometimes) lead to catastrophic consequences.
All I am saying is- 'Hey! Wake up! Don't harbor these sentiments and fuel them thinking it will be harmless. Such seemingly harmless sentiments in the past have led to great tragedies. If you do not curb them now, in another generation or so, we will have bloody war on this land where history will be repeated'.
What did we learn from Partition of India? I am not really sure. The only man who predicted how tragic the surgery would be, we shot him right away.
In a democracy, such prejudices and hatred cannot be curbed with force. Instead, it is a responsibility of the people itself to learn from history, teach kids of history and install mature institutions to ensure continuity of its nation/culture/religion/etc.
Hitler is necessary in this discussion because thats what Germany did- they harbored and condoned each of Nazi actions, and contributed to WWII and Holocaust by being silent. The seeds for tragedies were sown long ago through harboring such seemingly innocuous sentiments by ordinary and normal people.
"My intention was to elicit introspection from Indians- not another tirade of defence. When a nation does not question itself or criticise itself by learning from history, it tends to brush off all the signs of danger and repeat similar mistakes of the past."
Sujai, I think Indians do a fair level of introspection in society and the media. This small discussion here itself is an example. You just need to go through a few blogs and newspapers to get hold of the level of introspection prevalent in Indian society. We have developed a lot of consciousness of our problems - casteism, poverty, unemployment, disease etc. - and so we are working on them. For example, it is only because we, as a society/nation, have questioned ourselves and criticized ourselves by looking at our history, that we have a reservation system in place for the SEBCs. Your hypothesis' goal i.e., to introspect, was well intended as Polite Indian pointed out - I appreciate it. But when you introspect, you must be careful about what conclusions you make from what you found by introspection. I feel you made the wrong conclusions, so my "tirade of defence" was intended merely to point that out.
"Now if such a hypothesis comes from a person who has made a reputation in doing this time and again then it can be easily ignored but if it comes from a rational mind who has made not so wild posts in the past, it is worth pointing out."
My feelings too, exactly! C'mon Sujai!
Dear Atlantean:
On you part 1:
I don't think we glorified INA and Netaji just because he supported Adolf Hitler or Japanese. I quoted this example to say how we conveniently portray our role in WWII to suit our needs. The result of which is that the accomplishments of Indian Army (under British) were swept under the carpet. The reason I give this example is to say how we do not talk about WII (and how we do not know much about WWII crimes). [Consequently, not knowing WWII crimes makes it easy to admire Adolf Hitler.]
I don't think INA was promoting grand plans of establishing supremacy of Germanic race. I don't believe that. That's why I use the word naivete.
What follows later in my article is not connected to this. It is only an example to showcase how we have a filtered view of WWII. My article does not suggest that Netaji subscribed to Nazi ideology.
Please read my article once again. If you feel the same, let me know- I will change it to ensure I do not convey the wrong meaning.
On Part 2:
It is your opinion that we DO highlight Indian Army's role in WWII- and you cite Jaswant Singh's speech of 1999.
It is my opinion that not many Indians know of Indian Army's achievements while most of them know Subhash Chandra Bose and his INA. I am not sure how many people know of Jaswant's Singh's speech either.
While most School text books talk of INA and Netaji almost none talk of our victory over Japan.
But again, lets hold on to our opinions on this. Just ask some of the people you know- including your friends and family- on whether they heard of Indian Army's WWII victory over Japan.
[A friend of mine who lived twenty years of his life in North-east has never heard of this battle- Is he an exception or is it the norm?]
It is my opinion that the role of INA didn't have much to do with Indian Independence. A defeated army (Japan + INA) didn't have much bargaining power. There were other circumstances that paved way for Indian Independence. That's another topic of debate. Again, it is a matter of your opinion against mine.
To Atlantean:
On your Part 3:
You disagree with me and state that there are far greater achivements in the contemporary history. And you give examples of how a urban man earns and lives.
That is your opinion.
I on the other hand compare ourselves with what course of history we have taken in the last four hundred years, and how we missed Age of Reason and Age of Englightenment, how little we contributed to Science, and how little we have progressed in infrastructure, providing literacy and health care of millions of poor, and how we still suppress opposing views- by burning down movie theatres, banning books, etc. While we have made strides in giving urban man many luxuries not much has changed for a poor man in remote rural areas.
"What research? I BET my entire life not even 1% of India's population knows something about some German-Aryan racial link research."
You do not. But most people in RSS do. Ask anyone from RSS and they will tell you why they idolized Hitler and his henchmen before WWII.
"I BET my life. Where do you work? How many people work there? 100/200? Do one thing. Make a questionnaire and find out and please tell me if even 5 or 6 people among them really know about the Aryan-German link."
I wouldn't want you to bet your life. I will do that. But, meanwhile, just to assure you- 5/6 people around me know of Aryan supremacy theory of Germans. They may be an exception.
To Atlantean:
On your Part 4
You believe Muslims are in mainstream (through examples of your friends) and also reason that if they are not, it is their own doing (because they do not join the mainstream).
I think you are giving reasons and excuses to explain the situation. You cite what you see. I believe the reasons are far deeper than that- and that's its a systemic weakness of our state (and majority).
I believe that they are not represented according to the proportion of their population. Just because Abdul Kalam is Indian President it does not suddenly make their represenatation 12-14%.
You may not agree with me. That's fine. I believe the onus of integration is on the majority. Majority has to make it conducive for the minorities to make them feel less alienated. If the process of alienation continues, the net result is quite disastrous. And then who pays for it? Both the majority and the minorities!
To Atlantean:
On Part 5
I agree that India is the most diverse of all countries on the planet. And I think that is our strength. But at the same time, I think we are taking our diversity to be a natural phenomenon (we also cite some of our books to pat ourselves on the back). I think we are taking it for granted. We think we don't have to safeguard it and maintain it. We don't realize it requires conscious efforts. We believe that it will somehow survive all forces. That somehow it is elastic. That no matter how we treat our minorities, suppress opposing views, and expect all to conform to what we think are symbols of patriotism, and target certain sections for all troubles, and keep a huge population under poverty, we think it will remain peaceful, diverse and tolerant.
[You know what happens to even great people when they become over-confident about their strengths].
We have examples galore where it has been proved again and again that this equilibrium between various diverse forces is actually very tenuous and fragile. Such flashpoints were local in the past. The growing prejudices on both sides are taking bigger proportions. Media is spreading them to all nooks and corners. The future flashpoints will engulf the nation. And we are unconsciously sowing the seeds for those bigger and greater fissures.
This tenuous and fragile equilibrium can break anytime and what follows is a blood bath. We are testing its resilience again and again and every next time, we push it harder. The voices of disgruntled people against Muslims, weaker sections is growing louder and louder. How long will it last? History has many stories.
You think I belittle India. You are entitled to that opinion. On the other hand, I think I am a proud Indian- not the one who will berate every voice of oppostion and suppress every voice of dissent and brush aside every voice of criticism. But the one who wants to build a mature state where in such voices will not make us feel belittled, where in such voice do not make us less confident, where such voices are encouraged and well received, where we believe we need to improve continuously and endeavor constantly to make this nation home to all- where every minority, every backward caste person, and every weak person can feel that they are well represented and well taken care of.
You and I differ in our opinions.
"The problem with the article you have linked to at the end.. So, how am I supposed to believe it's factual accuracy?"
I encourage you NOT to believe it. I added it as an afterthought. My article is not based on that newsclip. Someone sent it to me. I added it at the end. That's all. He couldn't get the actual newspaper reference either. You can discard it.
It is not used to support my argument.
"If you want to criticize India, there are many genuine issues on which it deserves to be criticized, Sujai. But by equating Indians to Nazis, you went too far."
I believe if Indians need to be criticized the number one item they need to be criticized is their fastly depleting tolerance. They may have been the hallmark of tolerance in the past, but that attribute is fading away rapidly.
You believe otherwise.
While we work towards bettering our economy, infrastructure, better political process, etc, we are throwing away the balance that we accrued for many years in the bank of tolerance.
I have discussed at lengths on this and is the basis for most of my articles in the recent past. I am NOT equating Indians to Nazis. But I believe that we are acquiring all the necessary ingredients to make us Nazis in a generation or two.
[I hope I have addressed most of your assessments.]
CORRECTION in my answer to you Part 3:
I wrote:
"I wouldn't want you to bet your life. I will do that."
What I meant to write was:
"I wouldn't want you to bet your life. Meanwhile, I will ask the people around me what you asked".
Thank you. I really appreciate it. Whether we agree or disagree, whether we turn out to be like Nazis or not in the future, I think we are atleast united by one hope - that we never become like Nazis.
What a picture innovation.
Would like to watch Hitlar as Bush pls visit .. sompatidar.blogspot.com
After I started studying the facts of WWII and Hitler's talks and actions regarding peoples of color, I was forced to see that many of his actions actually fought worldwide racism, and his private conversations reveal that he apparently felt it was the job of the superior races.
Actually, Hitler was not a racist in the official definition of the term.
In this short essay I will quote from an actual expert from Otto Wagener's "Memories of a Confidant"-- recordings of his conversations with Hitler during the 1920's) (before rise to power.) where we see Hitler's secret intentions for all the innocent races not belonging to Nordic stock. While revealing his future plans for the various races of the earth and the future relationship of Aryan's to nature and all it's natural, that is organic creations, when we do this we will all develop a genuine insight into Hitler's hidden worldview considering other races which he felt were non-threatening to his national people . In this unpublicized quote among many others, Wagener is commenting to Hitler on his knowledge of Arab views toward the Germans, and specifically the Arab Emissary, who revealed such information when he visited Hitler in Germany. He said that the Arabs see the Germans as hero's and future liberators from Jewish rule and British enslavement. They applauded the Germans for standing up to the British arrogance and their view of the Jewish influence which was not good since Zionism was a nationalist, militarist, socialist, culturally revolutionary, political, organization with an agenda all of their own; they were going to re-colonize Palestine if they had to sacrifice some Arab blood, the line of Ishmael--it was no problem. Regaining lost lands is a principle need of a nationalistic cultural revolution. So this spirit, along with the firm backing of England they sought to grab the advantage of superior military and financial backing and thus were superior to any Palestinian. Hitler was very fond of the Arabs as to his knowledge of their superior advances in the middle ages when the fallen Europeans were being stupefied by Christianity and did not value their grates minds, meanwhile the Moslem's appreciated the great Aryan minds. He also knew that the Moslem's got much of their academic knowledge of science from India. Therefore he figured if half the existent Aryan-Anglo-Saxon race is so deceived and do not want change, he would be better off making Friends with other races such as Asians of the most advanced types, Arabs, Africans and eventually Indians, and his policies proved his wish of good will with all the peaceful and honorable races. This may sound too fantastic, but lets let the facts speak for themselves:
"Memories of a Confident": 1920's disciple Wagener's record of Hitler's secret mission: As Wagner has just remarked on the Arab Emissary visit to Germany and their support for the German cause Hitler remarked: "But the Semites seem to recognize their racial compatriots. Furthermore it seems to me that they know more about race than Europe does. The whitewashed good manners of our continent have seen to it that everything that might contribute to lucidity and truth was overlaid with a uniform Grey. Let us not lose sight of the Arab League. We Germans have gotten in the habit of looking for friends only in Europe--if possible among people of the same race. Perhaps this is a mistake. Perhaps it is much easier to find Friends among the other races.. If the Arabs know that we-that is a "NEW GERMANY" can offer them understanding, support, and firm backing in their own struggles for freedom , and that we consider them competent to enter alliances--welcome them, in fact---such a realization might have significant repercussions in our position with Europe as well. Furthermore an alliance of interests between Germany and the Arabic-Semitic race might also have far reaching significance for our relations with the millions of African, Indian, and yellow peoples. Purport: (for they are all pure and racially conscious) continued: "A Whole New perspective is opening up for me!" Wagener: but then Hitler rubbed his hands across his eyes and continued in a calmer voice: "I'll have to sleep on it. It seems to me that "PRACTICAL POLITICS TIES TO ENGLAND", It will have to be a LONG-TERM GOAL" ( that is the final restoration of friendly relations with Nobel non-Aryan races and Aryan sub-races.) continuing in the recording of Memories of a Confident, Wagener warns Hitler that "England would not sit idly by while we begin to sympathize with the various nations that England has always considers it's vassals." ( then Wagner continues by writing that an old war comrade had informed him that an English Colonel worked for the British intelligence was coming to Munich and wanted to talk to him about the ideals and goals of the NSDAP): Wagener notes: When I filled Hitler in on this visit, he said,: "Now England is taking interest in us. ( interesting that Hitler at the time does not fear the millions of Africans, Indians, Semites, and Yellow peoples, but when concerning the cunning British Devil bent on world domination and subjugation Hitler advised: Lets be cautious---I have no personal knowledge of the British. What I've read and herd about them is not altogether favorable. I am sure of only one thing, they are a practical people, and exclusively pre-occupied with they're own advantage and their own security." Then Hitler remarks on a typical British characteristic, (one which he earlier stated will not be the foreign worldview concerning relations and Geo-political-strategy of the "NEW GERMANY") "Since they think only of themselves when they act and speak, a certain amount of INSINCERITY has become second nature to them". So originally, Hitler wanted to convert the British and make them the great international race he knew they were capable of being, but he also wanted certain elements within their character eliminated, such as their conception of non-Brits and their disregard for nature. Hitler wanted to be sincere with his racial compatriots as well as with other races-- Nobel aware Aryan and non-Aryans--that understood his mission and had been unjustly treated by this egotistic material and financial force of the Anglo-Saxon-Christian-Sadducceic order of the Capitalist West. Eventually, after all the strenuous wars were done with negative elements within the white race, Hitler wanted the colored races to love the Aryans as benevolent, merciful, knowledgeable Gods of good luck and illumination. Every New-Ager knows that the white race is supposed to radiate and uplift the spiritual colors of the various races: white, red, yellow, brownish-red, and noble black. This is right, for the real spiritual and physical energies within the white race should be channeled to vibrate the white light which is made of the color spectrum. We are supposed to activate the light in every animated being including the earth. Hitler wanted a "New Europe" that was not jealous of the spiritual maintenance of the other races as the Christians, but a Europe that appreciated the beauty and value of every Nobel, honest, forms and looked to uplift the consciousness of every level of life striving up wards in evolution from the infinitely large as well as the infinitely small which includes other races, animals, and all other forms of life. Thus he wanted each race to improve itself and rid itself of threatening elements, and That is why he personally opposed the domination of the world by the white race, he wanted each race to rule their nature given living space. That say's Hitler's real intentions to other races, species, and life-forms. All genuine accounts of Hitler's conversations reflect a similar Messianic spirit.
Seek, and you will find!
i have not read your whole blog (yawn ! too long) but God ! your conclusions are amazing
When I tested your conclusions on myself, I realised it to be true.
I'm wishing to get time to read your whole blog and fully understand your analysis
Mind blowing !
I have been to many cities, but only in pune , which is supposed to be a dominant military hindutva region, I found 'mein kampf' to be displayed in book stores more prominently then other books.ReplyDelete
I dont think this is very accurate and by the way i am not hindu. I am a christian and live in Kent. I think that you have no got enough evidence to back up your points and do not understand how you can say that the majority of Indians like Hitler. I know many people of different origins, and in particular (because i research hisory on Adolf Hitler so know a lot about him) all the hindu people that i have talked to and asked about whether they have even read Mein Kampf or anything that has a lot of detail in Hitler hav said no. My friends daughter did not even know that the Aryan race was linked to india and was quite offended that Hitler could take something of another country and make it a symbol of Nazism. I do think that most hindus do not really like muslims but in particular pakistanis, but i have noted that muslims do not like hindus either.
I think you have misread my article. I don't ever say majority of Indians admire Adolf Hitler. Instead, I say that India would host highest number of Adolf Hitler. There is a big difference in both these sentences.
Most of RSS fundamentals are based on Aryan race. Both LK Advani and AB Vajpayee believe in Aryan theory. The origins of RSS clearly shows admiration of its leaders for supreme German race.
I believe your friend's daughter is not RSS. Many Indians do not know about Adolf Hitler or Nazis. I am not talking about them. India has a huge population. Urban upper caste elite comprise a small percentage. Of them, there is a greater awareness. I am talking about that population.
Have you asked Indian Hindus if they like Indian muslims?
I'm sorry, am I missing the joke here?ReplyDelete
It is true, unfortunately, that a lot of those who are anti-reservations are also pro-Hitler.
And, it is definitely true that an overwhelming majority of those who hate Muslims fall into the category of Hitler fans.
However, I suppose most of the people who love Hitler arent really aware of what he did at Auschwitz and Bergen-Belsen. All they see is that he "created a great nation", not noticing that he also led the very same great nation to ruin.
I'd attribute it as part ignorance, part fascism.
There are two reasons for that- Max Mueller and his linking of Sanskrit to Aryans, and Bal Thackeray (who is an open admirer of Hitler).
You know, I have a feeling that India boasts the largest number of Ayn Rand fans as well - probably 50% of Indian online profiles claim her as their favourite author. Unfortunately, that hasn't really helped in Indians become more objective and get rid of superstitions, etc.
India certainly has its right to objectively view history. What if the west are wrong? People die in war.
Germany was in fact attacked by an alliance of capitalist-Marxist, who together have slaughtered much more innocent people than nazigermany.
In the west you can see people go around with communist symbols; che, stalin, lenin, red star etc. and off course American genocide flag.
Good find on Godwin's law which is very appropriate for the present post!!
And good reply by atlantean too..
"There are many Indians, especially Hindus, who feel there is something wrong with Muslims. These negative sentiments come in different gradations- from mere dislike or contempt to downright hatred. "
If this is the case, how come there are many Indians (Hindus) who admire the Khans of Bollywood, Music Industry & Cricket team which most Indians are passionate about. How come they are enjoying this star status.
Both sides make very potent and persuasive points, I am torn, in perfect halves, stretched at my toes until I go pop in the middle and the process repeats itself 16 times over. Much like it would in a black hole.
The one point I would like to make which both sides seem to walk through like casper in the museum of walls is that the deaths which took place in the second world war aren't team tallies on brightly lit scoreboards at the football world cup. Lives lost on both sides do not cancel out each other, but end up in the same rather large pot of warmongerers malaise.
What I have experienced of India and young people in India tally with the authors conclusions about an inordinate number of Hitler supporters and the reason for this is a eclipsed view of WWII and hardly any indepth study of the Holocaust.
Lets not run after labels when by trying to equate human tragedies under British rule in India to anything else around the world. The figures are staggering, yes, but I ask you, who knows about these either?! Our education system fails to deal with history in a balanced and objective manner and there is a requirement for reform.
Eventually though it is important to construct a mature state where opinions can be shared openly. Today I can stand outside the rather large gate at 10 Downing Street and scream "Tony Blair is an idiot" at the top of my lungs and no one would dare touch me. Do the same in Mumbai in front of whatever Mr.Thackreys address is and I can guarantee myself an expedient disembowelment.
I don't agree that this nature of a comparison between cultures is unfair. Perhaps it is time to live up to that "largest democracy in the world" tag we are so happy to flaunt at every opportunity.
You write-
If this is the case, how come there are many Indians (Hindus) who admire the Khans of Bollywood, Music Industry & Cricket team which most Indians are passionate about. How come they are enjoying this star status.
Indian Hindus admiring selected heroes (who are in the limelight) is very different from allowing them into their midst.
Even in those societies and countries where certain races are discriminated against, there is a tendency to idolize and adore the stars. For example, Jesse Owens who won 1936 Olympics was a hero in US though none of the Black had their civil rights- the discrimination was rampant, but they could idolize a black.
BJP which makes overt statements against Muslims has put Abdul Kalam as the President. Such one-off reverences and likings do not discount the rampant and all-pervading discriminations.
I completely disagree with the author
on some counts.
a) I am not anti-Muslim
I am a progressive Hindu who wants Muslims to be upper-wardly Mobile
and meshed into our economy like any other minority.
A Muslim who is good in anything
be it music, Arts, Science, sports or policy making should be encouraged in every manner possible
But not because he is a muslim
but because he is an INDIAN who has proven his merit.
I always regard Muslims as Indians
with an Islamic faith.
b) I am anti-Reservation
because the way it is followed in India belies logic.
Reservation should be based on giving talent mired in poverty its
due recognition
Yet I am an Adolf Hitler fan for reasons which are historic.
He single-handedly raised Germany from the Ashes.
He is the only person who exposed the hollowness of the British Empire on the world stage.
Also his hatred for Communism was well justified.
I personally know a lot of Indian Muslims who are Adolf Hitler fans.
(partly due to his anti-jewishness)
Although I do not admire Hitler for his anti-jewishness.
So to say that only Hindus are Hitler fans is plain wrong.
Thanks for disputing my hypothesis. I was actually looking for examples such as yours- who would say that I am a subset of X, and a subset of Y but not subset of Z and therefore, your hypothesis is wrong.
You made a case where you said that you are NOT anti-Muslim but anti-reservation and a Adolf Hitler fan.
However, that doesn't necessarily dispute my theory completely. If you look at my picture, I never avowed that there is a 100% correlation. There are certain overlaps. As you can see from the picture, there are few who qualify your description. My hypothesis suggests a great correlation, but not 100% correlation. More examples such as your will definitely prove my hypothesis wrong.
In the latter part you say:
So to say that only Hindus are Hitler fans is plain wrong.
I never said that ONLY Hindus are Hitler fans. I did not talk about other fans – that's all. Saying that Chinese are rich doesn't necessarily mean Vietnamese are poor.
As a devotee(exact term) of Bal Thackeray, and a self confessed fan of Adolf Hitler, I wish to ask one question. What the hell is so wrong with it? Nazism is a legitimate political ideology. If you believe in democracy you MUST believe in Hitler; Nazis were democratically elected to power. Talking of what he did, cant you see? Germany was totally defeated and humiliated after world war I, he single handedly raised it up like a phoenix, to rise from the ashes. Look at the institutions he created. The luftwaffe, the alpine corps, the S. S.; the Wehrmacht. The best warriors to have ever walked to face of this planet. He not only captured the whole of europe, north africa, but also went into russia, thats where he strted loosing. Where is germany today? Just another country. Talking of what he did to jews, believe me I would like to do the same to Indian muslims. You got a problem with that???ReplyDelete
A mild mannered family friend is a fan and I was shocked to hear that he was. So, I am not surprised that there may be many more fans of Hitler among Indians. It is truly unfortunate!
Btw, thank you for the detailed email once again. I really appreciate that.
Cautious Optimist (CO)
I know its not politicaly correct but i dnt really care, I really admire hitler and the Natzis and all of Germany during WWII. Why are people so negative towards Hitler he had some very valuable lessions to teach us, try reading Mien Kampf. He was very intelligent and not at all the evil creature people make him out to be. He was a leader in a war which Germany had to have and he lead his country as best he could. Its ok for the US to use his leading rocket scientist who created v2 rockets as the head of there NASA program, thats a fact research it. Many Natzis were excused from war crimes because a coutry found them useful, but they all should have been excused its wrong to take revenge after the war on the losing side. Without hitler we would have no jet airoplanes. His views were amazing and as you read this and hate me, think about it, would the clean efficent germans running the world instead of america or china have left our planet in such a state? Germany was, is and always will be the way of the future.ReplyDelete
u might not be far off....
i have friends who admire hitler share similar personality traits and hold similar views...
but of course not all who oppose reservations or and hold any right-wing nationalist views admire hitler...but a majority of his admirers are probably from that group....but that makes sense, doesnt it?
watch this movie
as long as muslims and dalits eat up the country's resources rhey will suffer the fate of german jews.india needs a hitler to bring back the second vedic age.
"Talking of what he did to jews, believe me I would like to do the same to Indian muslims. You got a problem with that???"
"as long as muslims and dalits eat up the country's resources rhey will suffer the fate of german jews.india needs a hitler to bring back the second vedic age."
Second vedic age. Gimme a break!! Have you got any idea how "advanced" Indians were during the supposed vedic ages? Nothing more than pastoral nomads. All this superiority about the vedic ages is pure nonsense.With people like you we will probably end up in the second stone age.
You guys support Hitler for his racist supremacy theories, but had you guys been there in Germany during the Holocaust you would have probably given the Jews company in the gas chambers, as Hitler would have considered you guys part of a contaminated race too, what with your retarded I.Q. and all.
You know what, instead of racial profiling they should probably do an I.Q. profiling and eliminate guys like you who have an obvious mental deficiency. India would be better off without people like you.
I am currently learning German and for historical reasons I have been reading "Mein Kampf" by Hitler. I agree with many of his points in that our Aryan cultures are being weakened by racial intermixture between people of African and European decent, especially in the US, South America, and the Caribbean. There is a lot of pressure put on Indians in those countries to categorize themselves as either "black" or "white" and to intermarry. Even many Indians here in India are being influenced by this mentality as black and american culture is overtaking many cities. It is important to maintain our "Indianness" and traditions since money plays a big role in changing peoples mind. The new technological revolution is creating a new, unidentifiable India and the old cultural India is fast disappearing as it was in Germany of Hitler's time.
One thing I don't agree with is Hitler's views on colonialization. He wanted to unite Germany and Austria to further colonialism and he supported England's rule of India. He however denounces the results of colonialism since it leads to racial intermixing as the French, Americans, and South Americans have done. It would have better offcourse with out colonialism since more Africans have been spread throuhout the world and Indians and other nations have suffered as a a result. Colonialism has reduced the social structure of our own culture and the Europeans should have really left India and the East alone.
Also in contradiction to Rags, I would rather be dead in a gas chamber than end up with an afro. We should take of this problem before it happens in the future. You can call it preventitive medicine.
All our newspapers here in India are supporting this intermixture propaganda by cheering on Obama by giving him the Hanuman medal, for which Hindus don't want him to look at in the first place. So as you can see, colonialism has only lead to a deterioration of the Hindu-Aryan structure due to globalization.
I guess you live in a pretty backward community, if that's how people react to your having a Muslim acquaintance, but I would like to think that that is not the norm.
Here's a suggestion about who may actually be Hitler fans: Palestine - but even that I doubt.
Our current situation in India and the relationship between Hindus and Muslims is only a result of our historical,cultural, and anthropological events in the region. Hinduism originally developed India from the Aryan migrations from areas such as Iran and Afganistan and flourished in what we think of as the "Mahabharata" region. Then according the Hitler's theories and historical facts that can be found in Wikepidea, the first Aryan cultures were gradually "culturally" weakened as Hinduism spread due to decisions by rishis. "Cultural" strength as Hitler refers to is different from what people think of as the "Jesse Owen's version of physical strength". After this,even the caste system and "Bhagavad Gita" were unable to prevent the intermixing. The Mughal invasion was therefore necessary to reinforce the previous Aryan cultures since the system had broken down. The Mughals were therefore the "neo-Aryans" of India as were the British after them. All these were attempts to keep India "white" as has been done worldwide such as the Confederate Party in the USA and the Boers in South Africa. Hindus and Muslims in India were no longer able to maintain a "white" superiority in India so modern day India is up for grabs after Independence. So according to Hitler, only a "reawakening" of the Hindu Aryans can lead to a preservation and reemergence but this will be difficult in our modern day conditions. So the Hindu-Muslim differences are not just because of religion but which "racial" group is trying to lead India. As can been seen in the world, the "black" races are trying to emerge as they are in India and so this adds another element to the competition. The Muslims offcourse are using their global economic powers as a result of the oil industry to keep their dominance base so Hindus are resentful of that. The Aryan cultural "strength" would therefore would have been better if Hinduism never spread to South India since this might have prevented any future Mughal invasion to keep India "white".ReplyDelete
He killed millions of Jews you jackass!!! what else one needs to prove his atrocity. He is a Great DEMON, just like RavanaReplyDelete
Thanks Sujai
For enlightening us on the issue of Aryan relation to India. We know this very truth for a very long time now but aryan hindus in India are in constant denyel of this fact in order to rule majority aboriginal Indian people, its aparent that aryan hindus have propagated their religion , their
culture and their terror through various means and plundered this country. I was just pondering when the aboriginal people of this country come to know of this fact what would happen to "Minority aryan hindus"?
Its very intresting to see how you have related to your aryan german brothers but in Todays world aryan hindus in India are so much enamoured by Jews, their defence technologies and their influence in USA, its very contradictory that jews hate the same hitler whom aryan hindus relate to so much. How did you miss this point?
to Vikram Shenoy: If you read "Mein Kampf", you would see why Hitler did what he did. Hitler was no devil or Ravana but a God and genius! We need a Hitler in India to purify our mulato race and create some order as there was before the British and Mughals came uninvited. Heil Hitler!ReplyDelete
I accept wid u regarding the matter of Indian soliders who fought on d side of Allies and defeated Japan and Nazis. We never gave proper respect to them while we often idiolize the achievements of INA.
But I dont understand why do u equate people who admire Hitler with people who are against reservations. I hate Hitler and his actions against Jews but on the other hand i dont like reservations based on caste also. I am against reservations not because i am upper caste Hindu and not because i feel i am superior than other people from lesser castes. I am against reservations because most BC,SC,ST students who utilise these reservations are rich. Its only the rich and well to do who enjoy those benefits among them, while poor remain to be poor in this country irrespective of their caste in this country. So give reservations to all the poor people in this country
irrespective of their caste and religion then nobody is going to object. But politicians will never do that because their vote banks will be lost.
But i dont understand people like u who r well educated and knowledgable support them and start saying all the anti reservationists
are supporters of Hitler.
Your post was very interesting and i am not writing this to criticize you. I hope from the next time you would more rational while writing on social issues like this. I hope that i made my point without without hurting you.
Life of Idiots:
But i dont understand people like u ... start saying all the anti reservationists are supporters of Hitler.
I don't say that ALL anti-reservationists are supporters of Hitler. Please look at the picture I made to illustrate this.
The recent political events demonstrates how weak the indian mulato race has become. After a vicious neighbor has attacked its people and tourists, the countries' wimps refuse to wage war. If Hitler were India's fuhrer, he would destroy that vile pest. Heil Hitler! This shows how anyone can walk all over our weakened mulato race who are too busy and lazy rationalizing thing! The true Aryans must take over and lead this country again. Heil Hitler! Even nuclear blackmail wouldn't scare a pure aryan race!ReplyDelete
To be fair to readers of Mein Kampf, most so-called good German citizens had it but didn't read it; it was more widely read amongst Hitler's enemies who wanted to be one step ahead of him. In fact, a lot of death could have been prevented if more people read Mein Kampf.ReplyDelete
I donot want to conclude this article to be right or wrong and debate on conclusions to be made.But, for sure, i would like to appreciate your article, which made me think about the deeply inherent thoughts and perspective we inculcate and pass on while being totally unaware of it. Specially, the point you tried to make about prevailance of Muslims in the society was very appreciative.
the basic idea of your post is absolutely correct but your hypothetical analysis is not appropriately described.because of following reasons:
1. indians were slaves under BRITISH Colonial rule at that time. The very important thought throughout India at that time was there is no power in the world who can challenge British. But eventually there came a man (Hitler) with his nation and his allies with supreme authority to challenge the world including British. This is the first time indians had ever witnessed or imagined a World power challenging British directly.thats why most indians like Hitler.
2. indians want to fight Japanese army for what? already India was a slave nation under British. so Japanese are fighting against British but not Indians because India was a british slave colony.there is no point for the so called NIA to support British.
3. WWII is not anyones problem. it is a COLONIES problem. British, french, Spanish had colonies allover the world. so when Hitler came to power he strengthened his army and threatened Britain and France that he is going to occupy his neighboring EUROPE. Britain don't want to give its colonies but Hitlers stamina was not underestimated. if you see the history it is not Hitler who declared war against Britain. it is France and Britain who declared war against Germany. so Britain who claimed as the master of the world was started fearing Hitlers ambitions.
4. as WWII was a highly influential factor i can tell that India and other countries have got independence. if there is no WWII i can tell you that still india and other countries will still be under colonial rule. the causative person for WWII was Hitler so most indian like Hitler because he showed the world that British were nothing infront of him. this was an inspiration for most indians till now and even in the future also.
5. if indians fought against Japanese i think it was a shame for indians to do that. they would have rather collaborated with Japanese army and would have chased British out at that time only which they didn't because indians were not prepared.
6. one thing for sure before WWII British thought that they are super power but they were disgruntled by the mighty super power of Hitler. this itself could be enough to state that Hitler is an idle in India.
you can hate and loathe Adolf Hitler as much as you want..but there's no point trying to disrespect Netaji. After all, whatever he did, and whichever methods he adopted for carrying out his mission were to free India, if only he knew, free Indian people would throw up posts like these on their blogs ..It was due to his efforts that Indian pows decided to take oath against the Brits. This betrayal, if you might call it that made it hard for the Raj to trust the Indian troops and had to free India quickly..
Its not in good taste to generalise..speaking of anti muslim sentiments, you must be well acquaint with how well several white christians across the world treat white jews, leave alone blacks. No, I am not comparing two forms of discrimination, but it is to state that such evils do exist all across the world and not just in India.. I could name more than just a few proto-muslim organisations in India which allegedly support terrorist groups in Kashmir and the POK. Does that mean all muslims support Osama bin Laden? Now, many right wing men would endorse that view, that is what leads to problems.
We do lag behind in dealing with our issues and we could do a lot better in that without your stereotypical jibe at Indians..
I'm glad that Hitler was born and brought about new world order. Brought about the end of British Empire. Brought freedom for India and other nations which British were ruling ruthlessly. God give peace to Hitler. I'm glad the system generated such a brave man !!! I will never accept "Gandhi" as the father of nation. Long live the revolutionarists !!!
Jai Hind !
@umesh verma:
it is not necessary to mention that u dont accept Gandhi as the father of nation. All pro-hitlers are anti Gandhi. I hope u ll admire Gandhi in ur next incarnation(since now u have a pea sized brain of single digit IQ which stops u from understanding Gandhian principles). May God Bless You.
i dont think U.S.A is any better then Hitler Look at all the Native Amaricans they killed( millions) you dont here about U.S.A how scewed up they are . U.S.A look at your selves. Where the hell do you think Hitler got the ideas????ReplyDelete
actually i want to comment on your entire blog but its not possible, so i am commenting here.u dont have complete knowledge of anything you are writing on. you don't know completely abt hinduism or Indian way of life, treating others, independence, nothing is complete. nothing in depth. but you has idea on vast no. of things and enthusiasm and interest to write things. that is why u are writing. you never express ur feelings strongly. u speak as if u are asking for a suggestion or waiting for a comment. u are sick i can say. you dont actually know what hindu nationalism is. you never understand why hindus became too hostile to other groups in recent times.you are brainwashed by so called modernity. you are 21st century indian born in a hindu family not aware your traditions and customs completely but continuously influenced by west influenced education, media and lifestyle. its not ur mistake at all. bt i must appreciate ur understanding that Hinduism doesn't oppose atheism but ur not even confident to say that.understand hinduism is not a religion and cannot be compared at the level of islam and christianity. u are retarded to compare hilter with indians. saying indians fond of hitler.u called subhash chandra bose naive. in this fucking country people who completely dedicates life has become naive. and people establishing dynasties in the disguise of democracy are leaders. long live india short live democracy. u may remove my comment bt i want the message to be delivered.ReplyDelete
Came across this blog while surfing the net for similar topics. The articles are extremely well written and act as a mirror to the ugly face of the society that most of the people do not want to see. I completely agree with the content of this article and somehow feel that the chauvinism and extremist sentiments are only growing in India along with the passage of time. Biased media (esp. The Times of India) is only increasing the sense of superiority that you have written about inn this blog.ReplyDelete
You write because you want to write without caring that what you are writing? Your analysis of all the issues barring Hitler's appreciation in India, is completely wrong and far from the truth. I classify any person as sick who cannot understand the need of reservation on financial grounds. If someone says he is against present criteria of reservation and you relate him with Nazis than you should revisit your own society and understand it again. As far as anti Muslim feelings are concerned they are again far from the ground reality, I do not think that you have visited any of the place which you have mentioned personally and have drawn your conception merely from some coffee shop gossip or household talks. People like you try to smell a rat in everything and everywhere and when they can't find one they try to cook up a foolish fantasy and present it as great piece of intellectual writing, like this one. Illitracy and poverty are the biggest problems of our country and if you can see things with spects of reality you will surely find out that who Nazis were and who we Indians are.
He is troll dont feed him. now a days it is a style to blame or comment or disgrace somebody on religion or region or racial lines. so when people with brains react these trolls feed themselves....
enjoy dear.... one more is here..
mindless thoughts.
I only want to say two things. first this is a full of shit, and second learn some real history - not manipulated history written by western world in English.ReplyDelete
it's not a thing to decide if we are racist or anti islamic
we can't judge or deccide anything
but we can do a single thing if we have power,to make things right.
u can kill,supress and retreat any one and u can be a fascist to but u can't judge others
Looks like our man has been validated:
Keep up the good work, friend.
The very fact that I stumbled on to this page through a search indicates thats something wrong with my thinking.
You hit the nail on its head. Good post.
(Insert Pseudonym Here)
Sujai, I ran into this old post by accident (thanks to recent comments) and found it interesting.
In India, the name "Hitler" does not have the negative connotations it does in Europe & USA. Our German intern who was shocked by the success of the Telugu movie "Hitler" (starring Chiranjeevi, then the # 1 star). Most of my colleagues did not even understand why Peter was upset.
your website blogs are useless because no sense of truth and no negative learningsReplyDelete
Mr Author,
We are not Anti Muslim. Just that we dont trust them. It is not because of their religon. Just because u kill all the mosquitoes fearing th eone which might cause maleria, we keep away from them not knowing which one is the terriorist. It is on their part to come clean and show the world that they are really pease loving.
As long as the Hindus remain un united like they are today, there is not going to be any coup on democracy for the time being. It is a natural defense I guess, the minority votes in a single direction and can hence influence it's result.
Also the fact that there are many divisions within the Hindu community is also an advantage to the minority groups. so long as the Hindus remain as they are..... there will never be any enblock voting or government in power that can dicate it's Facist ideology. So much good for Indians.
i think ur a fool because we indians have been made as slave by british while adolf hitler rose as german killed british AND JEWS these people where all barbarians and cause trouble where ever they are , for example isralians have killed the help less palastiniens
so think twice before telling any thing about hitler
I would just like to say Heil Hitler!ReplyDelete
the writer is extremely sick and selective in his approach i admire his concern for minorities but secularism does not mean reverse discrimination with majorities .How can one ignore the sufference which india has beared for thousand year or may be more.U sympathise with a alleaged mosque but have no feeling for the temples sloughtered all over the country.How can u forget the vandalism of ghazni, ghori,abdali,timur,khilji,aurangzeb and the britishers. U condemn gujarat riots but what about godhara , how can u defend the banishing of the original inhabitants of kashmir. How can u justify Haj subsidy,no hindu get any pilgrimage allowance like muslims .I assure u unless people like u don't stop treating muslims as deprived their conditions will not immprove. We have muslim engineers, scientists ,politicians and business tycoons not because of religion but only because of there will and hardwork. The day when we all start classifying ourself only as indians the all issues of communalism will be sorted no one can claim special benefite because they are vote banks voting for religion not for country. The only way of social justice is by making the crieteria for reservation and other perks as the economic condition not religion or caste. I'm quite sure that ur views for hitler would have been different if the axis would have won . Stop seeing events in isolation every scene is followed by some other and is following someReplyDelete
hey sujai, well research, but u knw may indians bask in the british glory and also it is a matter of proudness to defame india and indians' achievement. Allied forces were definately not representattives of Mother Teressa, they glorify the holocaust but dont even mention the atrocities british did in INDIA, nor the americans did on natives. i would like to share the fact that germans made considerable progress in making atom bomb but never wished to use them, they only kept it alive to threaten the british. u must not also forget the crimes of allies on germany post WW-1 . penalty which was imposed on germany was totally inhuman. Adolf hitler was the elected representative of german people who won election with 93% majority, still a record no one else achieved, in every religion it is said that at time of death u should remember ur GOD to get salvation, do u think millions of germans speaking HAIL HITLER were fools, well allies say it was "mass hysteria" but than why no leader of Allies had got that power to create that mass hysteria?. Whatever Hitler did was done accordingly to bring back the pride of germans and save them from atrocities. British and americans are parasites they dont have there own history so always try to distort other country's history. Remember Shaheed Bhagat Singh and Chandra Shekhar Azad were named terrorist by them.Contribution of Indian Soldiers in WW-2 SHOULD NOT be glorified because they fought against there own people i.e INA who was coming to free INDIA. at last i would like to say that nt a single INDIAN has right to comment on hitler unless they stops wagging their tails in front of british embassies, if we are so much moved by killing of jews by hitler than we should not forget Jalianwala Baug killings and many other. Hitler is a Saint when compared with British, he killed jews in a gas chambers but what barbaric british did to INDIANS was totally inhuman.ReplyDelete
what can i say? i don't think any of it is true, from the part about Hitler being our IDOL, to MANY Indians not being able to stand Muslims. As a journalist, i enjoy articles that are true.ReplyDelete
First and foremost, Hitler is a christian and not an Hindu. So I don't agree with some Hindus suggesting that Hitler is role model for Hindus.
Hitler hated Jews, who are of entirely different religion and came from different land to settle in Germany. Also at that time Jews exploited economically backward native germans.
I don't know how Dalits could be equated to Jews. Dalits never came from foreign lands and settled in India. Basically, Dalits are true Indians. I say it because, many upper caste people of past generation are Dalits of present generation. Many Dalits of past generation are upper castes of present generation.
Again Hitler mania is confined entirely to (economically advantaged and light skin color) western part of India where day by day, Hinduism is alarmingly decreasing. In (economically disadvantaged) eastern part of India, Hitler mania and caste system are much less rigid and at same time there is lot more cooperation among Hindus.
Nowadays Caste has lot more to do with Skin colour and money rather than noble qualities of man.
Unless Hindus look for good qualities in a person rather than skin colour and money, even Hitler cannot enforce discipline and noble qualities in stupid RSS, BJP followers. Hitler won hearts of his country people inspite of his radical thoughts. While stupid BJP, can never win even half of Hindus if they are still in favour of caste system.
BTW, I am a crazy Hitler fan and have burnt my hand naming Hitler. I cannot allow people to defame Hitler by equating him to anti reservation programme followed by stupid Hindus. Hitler never divided his own country people with his policies.
In general, Hitler's views unified Germany and he was people's leader, irrespective of color and class system.
But Upper class Hindus equating Hitler's views on Hinduism will certainly divide Hindus and will lead to significant increase in other religions numbers in India.
Again Dalits cannot be equated to Jews. Its totally stupid argument, as dalits have been living in India for years while Jews are outsiders to Germany.
For past 60 years, Caste system in India is based on Skin colour and financial credibilty rather than noble qualities of people.
Most of present day Upper caste people are somewhere lower caste people in previous generations and vice versa.
So equating Caste system to Nazism is dangerous and will widen hatredness among people.
I am a die hard fan of Hitler and i cannot allow Hitler's ideals to be equated with stupid ideology of Indians.
I m one of the admirer of Supremo though he was cruel but people forget that most of the management & Engineering Techniques were introduce by him & most ambitious projects of Anti gravity Vehicles, Medicine which increase age of man & other Stolen by USA & started developing in Area 51
Hail hitler
To the Indian admirers of Hitler,
If your fuehrer did become king of the world, you'd probably be in one of his concentration camps - for in his eyes we were the lowly brownskin. To him even the whiteskins had a caste system; people from eastern Europe, Italy (even tho' they were war allies), France and the Iberian peninsula were inferior. Only the Scandinavians, the Celts (the Irish), the Teutonic people and the Anglo Saxons (tho' he fought them) fitted his profile of a superior race.
He killed the Roma people (gypsies), he killed homosexuals, he killed the old and the terminally ill, he killed children, in fact anyone he didn't like.
Remember, even the magnificent Einstein was forced to flee Germany because he was 'a dirty Jew'.
Maybe, because of your 'Aryan connection', you might be given the choice of choosing a chore or a camp.
While I totally agree with first part of ur blog, I completely disagree with the later half..
First half :
I remember participating in a group discussion " was hitler good or evil" where everyone of us ended up saying he was a great patriot... Today after knowing about his deeds, I can say how foolish we were.. and completely agree with u on Indian mentality of sidelining the positives of british rule.. being too proud of some past achievements, western world never shows pride despite clearly beating us from thier achievements
Second half
Anti muslims + Anti reservations = Hitler admirers .. I mean wtf...
I can say
Lack of knowledge + stupid nationalistic pride = Hitler admirers
... I don't want to talk about anti muslims , I hate them equally but anti reservations doesn't mean they are upper caste hindus who don't want equality.. I hate reservations too.. for a simple reason, if a person benifits from reservation and becomes rich, his sons also get and get richer, and it shud stop somewhere and thier grandkids shud't get reservation.. people have anti resrvations stand because they have strong opinions against it and not bcoz they hate anyone
I wud like to repeat ur blog is good..can't agree more with hitler part
but equating anti reservations with hitler admirers is plain stupid...
U have specifically mentioned upper catse.. I m from lower caste and I hate reservations and strongly believe its ruining our country...
on a diffrent note, I can create a theory and mention u as hitler admirier.. acc to my theory, u generalise anti reservation people as upper caste. Clearly shows u are against them.. which more clearly shows u are against certian communities of india.. and according to me people who have hatred for one community based on thier caste, religion fit hitlers idelogy.. hence proved ur a hitler admirer..( I know my theory is stupid so is urs)
Your article is good for nothing and just based on your wild hypothesis, I request you to just read again your article again and see how much irrelevant is your article.ReplyDelete
yes sujai.. netaji was naieve.. because he instead of sitting infront of a desktop making useless surveys.. actually stood up single handedly to bring independence to the country from an external source (probably the first of that kind)... INA is an army which actually fought for freedom of india where as the indians who participated in ww2 are virtually british soldiers as india is under british colonial rule that time...
that means.. england tried to politically hold on to its colony where as ina tried to liberate india.. according to my survey i can authentically prove that many people now a days are manipulating history in a convincing manner using higher grade linguistic skills and are trying to attain identity... like showing no patriotism is a status symbol... contradicting with beliefs of majority of the people (even though they are true).. criticising the race or religion or sect of his own ... and such type of non- genuine activities.. is all because of the misunderstanding of the core of an issue and coming to an opinion just by seeing the crust of a topic.. and hitler in his book mein kampf named these kind of people as superficial observers which is exactly the term.. and the main reason why indians (atleast me and some of my friends) like hitler is because of his profound reasoning on the necessity of national socialist ideology without which germany had severely damaged in ww1...
Interesting post though!
Most of us admire Hitler because of his leadership qualities. Interesting fact is that Nazis carried out a research on Globe and find the pure blood in Himalaya.
The malana Dist. they even send some blonde girls to breed with this pure blood.
Your post is the worst biased one i could ever see.ReplyDelete
we could find a good explanation for the wierd behaviour of different sangh pariwar outfits, their leaders and even that of congress and some other parties in the analysis of george orwell, written almost 75 years ago!
India has through ages been a very tolerant country!
Indians as a whole, though there was no India as a country other than the then British colonial portion, about half of present India and Pakistan, and a few thousand local kingdoms, but the people who lived in the present India, Pakistan , Bangladesh, Sri Lanka , Myanmar, Malaysia , Thailand, Singapore, Cambodia , Vietnam, have been very tolerant people !
the agent provocateurs of the Rashtriya Swayam Sevak Sangh like shri Adityanath, ms. Praschi, Sree ram Sena, Hindu Mahasabha of savarkar and godse, Hindu vahini, Sanathan sanstha, giri raj singh , shri Vinayak Damodar Savarkar , shri Ramachandra Vinayak Nathuram Godse , are not tolerant people!
Their immediate gurus late shri hegdewar, late shri golwalkar, and a host of passed away and living leaders are not tolerant.
The original gurus and inspiration Shri shri Benito Mussolini Guruji of the fascist Italy , shri shri Maha shri Adolf Hitler maharaj Ji were not. The last two were without doubt enemies of not only their people, but the entire peoples of the world.
We have everything recorded in the great inglorious history of fascism and Nazism, and national socialism propagated by them .
Fascism is a grave danger to the world.
The founders of RSS were inspired by the fascism and fascist philosophy that was respectable in many circles in many countries in the world at that time, and went on a visit to Italy and Germany around 1920. They studied the rise and spread and consolidation of fascism and its leaders in Italy and Germany . They studied in detail the structure and constitutions, bye laws of the fascist parties and their youth organisations including their uniforms, drills with weapons and sticks.
They returned to India and found the rss on the same lines philosophically, organisationally and functionally.
To this day they work on the same lines.
They have trained and deputed a large number of people to setup different organisations including the then, now BJP, Jana Sangh . Everything began with with the seeds manufactured by rss and the philosophy they derived from Benito Mussolini and Adolf hitler. Till fascism was respectable in many quarters, till fascism was on the rise, till fascism was mighty and ruling Italy, Germany, Spain etc the Indian fascisti too were openly and unashamedly praising the fascists of the world, their philosophy, their organisation methods , their criminal storm trooper activity, attacks on Jews and non Jews of their own respective countries who opposed fascism and anti semetism.
They were depressed by the defeat of fascism. It was then shri Ramachandra Vinayak Nathuram Godse shot that old frail helpless man called Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi.
it was a great conspiracy of the hindu maha sabha and rss.
there is ample recorded and incontrovertible evidence documented in the kapur commission report from government records, from people who have had no political or personal enemity with them or their ideology. There were many in the congress too who were sympathetic too Indian fascism. there were many stupid people too like shri morarji desai, who appears so incompetent but was actually not.so there was some respect in these fools in the congress for rss, hindu maha sabha, and the philosophy they espoused.They supported the fascist philosophy and ideology of RSS , derived from Mussolini and Hitler. Shri Vallabhai Patel, shri gobind vallabh panth, the first PRIME MINISTER OF UNITED PROVINCES, who later was the home minister of india etc had a lot of sympathy for rss and hindu maha sabha and those who aided and supported them, though they could not imagine or think that the amount of evil in the fascists would go to the extent of killing mohandas karamchand gandhi.
that the conspiracy was not fully established, all the conspirators not found guilty is for multiple reasons, including the low level of police competency to investigate the inter state national level crimes of this magnitude, the need to save incompetent people like morarji desai, and competent people like shri patel who mis calculated the degree of evil of these fascists for whom he had ideological and philosophical sympathy, and the extreme degree of proof insisted upon those days, as indian criminal law as relevant to this country was still in it's infancy, concerning proof in cases involving circumstantial evidence.
so the story is not about India being tolerant. the story is about the neo fascist forces of India that have evolved from the killing of Gandhi to the complete state control of India through demagogy and subterfuge! having come to power they now care two hoots for democracy, tolerance and the republican Indian constitution. so when someone says India is becoming intolerant, what it means is, India is not yet intolerant as a country but the state and its agent provocateurs are indulging in acts of intolerance, and if the country and it's people do not unite and resist the fascists, they will make India a intolerant country!
as of now we are on a train to intolerance of the fascist variety of Italy and Germany. the train has begun it's journey. if not stopped, the train will take us and our country to a destination where the fate that awaited the Italian and German people will be awaiting for us too! so the award wapsi and other brave acts of the notable writers and other persons of eminence is to be greatly applauded. those who are opposing such brave actions are similar to the people who joined the course of shri Mussolini and shri Hitler.many of them later regretted their inability to see the grave mistakes they were making. the good people among those who are now supporting Indian fascism too will regret tomorrow, as more and more cruelty will be wrought on the people soon.George Orwell long ago spoke and analysed the character such fascism and those who support it in his great essay on nationalism.we must study what and how things happened in Italy and Germany, how they progressed, how much devastation they led to, and how world fascism was defeated by the united efforts of the world peoples that professed different political and religious faiths, including India/Pakistan,china, Russia!
f we neglect today we will go where Italy and Germany have gone, and then come back to sanity and civility.
if we wake up and study and analyse the enemies of India now, then we can prevent the rise and growth of fascism in India and slowly lead India to peace, harmony and growth. platitudes of development and growth without freedom and liberty take the world no where!
to see the very high philosophical, political and moral degradation of the people supporting the neo Indian fascism, we have to just carefully and patiently read each and every comment made on this and other posts on this page called ' the nationalist view' on facebook.the true nature of neo Indian fascism, their degradation, their anti people and anti humanity, anti democratic feelings, their vengeance against freedom and liberty, their moral degradation, their lumpen nature, their obscenity, everything that is evil is so self evident. we must read all these regularly and bring them into focus for the young people of India to read and understand.we must translate into Indian languages all the fascist literature, the history of Italian, German and international fascism, their speeches, everything so that people understand the enormity and obscenity of fascism.
similarly we must make available, in original, in English, in all Indian languages all the books written by the founders and past and present leaders of fascism, all the articles they wrote in their own journals and otheter journals, all the speeches they ever made, and analyse them and their fascist nature, the great evil, the great harmful thing they contain against human civilization and culture.we must re3asearch the life and evolution of all the Indian fascist leaders, their thoughts on everything and juxtapose them with the civilised and accepted thought and philosophy all over the world. there is no other way to defeat fascism.
all the anti fascist forces in india including bjp and congress must be united into a great anti fascist front. we must support all good and oppose all bad on the real Merritt of the action and thought irrespective of which party, which person, which religion, which caste it came from.the good and bad is spread among all parties and all people in India. by segregating good things from bad things, by isolati8ng people who support all bad things done by all bad people, oppose all good things done by good people, it is possible to steer the country and people towards a great anti fascist movement to protect the constitution of India, the republican nature of India as a country and uphold liberty, equality and fraternity among all people with mutual tolerance, justice and harmony.
satyameva jayathe!
bhaarath maathaa ki jai!
jai hind!
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text: I mentioned in the Dakar thread recently that a guy rode a G450X based bike in Heroes-Legend last year, and he had similar engine problems too - he got through all three engines he had with him by half way through the second week (I think he said they were suffering from too little oil), and ultimately had to be transported by his support truck the final few days, before he pushed the bike over the finish line, and promptly jumped up and down on it! I offered to sell him my Tenere, but quickly withdrew the offer when he looked like he might seriously accept! J xx

subset: commoncrawl


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O God, the King of Glory
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Composer: Kemp, Stephen
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A superb, stirring motet setting the collect for the Seventh Sunday of Easter. Useful for any occasion.
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Rabbi Polachek was born in Sinichinitz, near Meitschet, Grodna. He was brought to Volozhin before he reached the age of 12. Referred to as the Meitscheter Illui by Rabbi Chaim Soloveitchik zt"l, his bar mitzvah lecture, which he delivered in the yeshiva, made a memorable impression. He remained at the yeshiva in Volozhin until it closed in the winter of 1892 then went to learn in Brisk with his mentor, Rabbi Chaim Brisker zt"l.
Rabbi Polachek remained in Brisk for four years and then transferred to Yeshivat Knesset YisroeI in Slobodka. Rabbi Chaim Soloveitchik said that in all his life he had never come upon a genius of the measure of the Meitscheter. Afterwards, he joined a group of specially selected students in Vilna headed by Rabbi Chaim Ozer zt"l.
In 1905, when the Yeshiva of Lida was founded by Rabbi Yitzchok Yaakov Reines zt"l, Rabbi Polachek was asked to be a rosh yeshiva, and he taught Torah there until the outset of World War I. In 1921, he was accepted as the rosh yeshiva of Tachkemoni in Bialystok.
After a year he received Rabbi Dov Revel's invitation to become a rosh yeshiva at Rabbi Isaac Elchanan Theological Seminary, arriving in America in 1922. He taught at the Yeshiva for six years and was greatly revered there. He was also active in the Agudath HaRabbonim of America and in Ezras Torah.
In 1928 he passed away suddenly. Rabbi Meir Berlin zt"l said that as great as he was in Torah, Rabbi Polachek stood out seven measures more in the greatness of his character.