text:
December 15, 2004
Go to
our forums
to discuss this article
Kevin Kalkhoven
Champ Car
With the holidays fast approaching and the off-season deal making
at a fever pitch, we caught up with Champ Car co-owner Kevin Kalkhoven between
buying holiday gifts, and working on his next deal, to talk about some of the key
issues facing the sport today.
Now that the 2004 season is over are you satisfied with what you
achieved given where Champ Car was back in January, i.e. bankruptcy?
"We are
on or ahead of target, but am I completely satisfied? No, not
completely," said Kalkhoven. "Television and officiating are areas
I was not happy with and we are fixing them in
2005, and it will be even better in 2006. But considering where the series
was on January 28th, I'd say we are doing remarkably well."
"Our top priorities for 2005 were having a better TV and production package, adding at
least two more races to get the '05 schedule to 16, and building a more solid
foundation for '06 and '07. That means a continuing development of the
events we race at, and more evolution of our teams and our organization.
You will also see us strengthen our ladder series. Look for a completely
new format for the Atlantic series in 2006.
"We hope to have the cable
portion of our 2005 TV package finalized in
about two weeks. In addition to the USA we will have a comprehensive
international TV coverage. Besides the Eurosport deal in Europe,
which is huge, we will have TV deals in Canada, Mexico, Latin America
and of course Asia," smiled Kalkhoven.
On the subject of new race venues, there have been rumors about possible
races in Argentina, Brazil, China, the Czech Republic and even LeMans.
How real are any of these?
"Literally as we speak a bill is on the floor of Argentina's assembly,"
said Kalkhoven. "That deal is the closest to happening.
We are also looking at Brazil and another venue in Asia, but I prefer
not to be more specific at this time."
All indications were that Ford was going to re-up with Champ Car, and
possibly take a more active role, but things have gone rather silent in
recent weeks.
"I am very confident that Ford will continue the relationship and possibly
increase their
role with Champ Car. Ford has been great and the deal will be
announced when it is ready," said Kalkhoven.
What about sponsorship for the series, is a title sponsor coming on
"We expect to make a number of new sponsor announcements in
the coming months. Whether we have a title sponsor I can't say
right now," said Kalkhoven.
The topic of Formula One came up. At one time Kalkhoven was going to start a F1 team and instead
he became a Champ Car team owner, which led to the purchase of Champ
Car. Kalkhoven was quick to point out that it's nearly impossible
to be a privateer in F1 with the current structure. "The FIA is
trying to change that because the costs are
outrageous," said Kalkhoven. Manufacturers are spending hundreds of
millions of dollars a year. You can run a two-car Champ Car team
for $10 to $12 million per year and that makes a lot more sense."
So what's Bernie really like
we asked?
"Bernie is the smartest manager in motor racing, period," said
Kalkhoven. "We have been in touch and there are no barriers between
Bernie and Champ Car. He has not hindered our efforts to expand
globally at all."
With the Concorde Agreement stating a maximum of 16-races per year,
does a 19-race (soon to be 20) F1 schedule surprise Kalkhoven? If they can do 19-races,
how many can Champ Car eventually do?
"As you know,
Champ Car did 19 in 2003, but that is very difficult, especially
when you are globe hopping," said Kalkhoven. "There are a lot of people
complaining in F1 about the schedule and I think eventually you will see the
number of races reduced. I think that for now Bernie is simply trying to
lock up as many venues as possible for long-term contracts to thwart the efforts
of the GPWC."
"I am completely confident we will have at least 18 cars on the
grid in '05 and possibly more"
Kevin Kalkhoven
Speaking of numbers, a number of
existing teams have yet to announce sponsorship deals for 2005. Things are awfully
quiet and people are starting to wonder. "I am completely confident we will
have at least 18 cars on the grid in '05 and possibly more. We have been approached by
a number of new team owners and we hope to have some announcements early in the
new year."
Part of the hesitation has
been whether Champ Car will have all new equipment in 2006 and whether
it pays to buy the old stuff now. "There are
plenty of Lolas and Reynards around, which are perfect for new
team owners who want to gain experience in our series in year one and year two. We have decided to keep the existing package through the 2006
season. Look for an all-new car/engine combo in 2007," said
Kevin Kalkhoven and his
are venture capitalists, as such they are always looking for a
return on their investment. Did he buy Champ Car because he's a sportsman and
wanted to preserve the series or is this strictly a business opportunity?
would not have bought Champ Car had it not had significant
business opportunities. We are about to start year two of our five year
plan. Would we sell out after that? No, the most successful
business ventures are the ones you can ride for the longest time," stated
"I have turned around a number of companies in
my career. There were only two times that I had any doubt whether we
could be successful with Champ Car. Of course there was some doubt during the
bankruptcy proceedings in January and then when Fernandez and Rahal
announced their 11th hour departures we had to scramble.
Yes, we still have some issues to work through, but once we got past
those two major hurdles we became pretty confident."
Take out your crystal ball and tell us what you see for Champ Car in
five years time.
"I believe Champ Car will be America's interpretation of Grand
Prix racing showcasing American racing, i.e. more of a muscle car approach vs.
the European finesse approach. That means no driver aids, a good combination of
tracks, and maintaining a close level of racing with no one team completely
"I believe Champ Car will be America's interpretation of Grand
Prix racing showcasing American racing, i.e. more of a muscle car approach vs. the
European finesse approach. That means no driver aids, a good combination of
tracks, and maintaining a close level of racing with no one team
completely dominating.
key to our success is not
engine manufacturer money but sponsor money. We have to have the product and
geography that sponsors want. It has to be economically
feasible for them. Manufacturers spending engine money is not the way to success.
San Jose and Silicon Valley
are very important to our sponsors as are markets in the Pacific Rim and North and South
America that are not currently dominated by F1
and NASCAR."
NASCAR is sometimes described as a religion. With NASCAR getting
stronger by the day, is the USA
indeed a NASCAR-only nation?
"The USA market
is a very important market for Champ Car and we will
maintain a significant presence there," said Kalkhoven. "We will never gain
the TV ratings
NASCAR does, at least not short-term, but we can provide significant business
opportunities for our sponsors in key markets and grow our TV ratings to
respectable numbers. At the end of the day, for our sponsors who
increasingly sell product worldwide, the cumulative TV ratings globally are more
important than just the USA ratings, and far higher I might add."
In many respects a sport's popularity is directly proportional to
the popularity of its athletes. NASCAR is a prime example. We hear the excuse that
Champ Car simply does not have enough American drivers, that the young Americans are all going to
NASCAR, hence Champ Car's popularity in the USA has waned. How do you respond to
"We must have a continuity of drivers.
To do that we need to strengthen our series to the point where drivers want to be
in Champ Car and our teams can pay them the salary they deserve," said Kalkhoven.
"Right now drivers can earn the most money in F1 and NASCAR so naturally that is
the first choice for many."
The question on many peoples minds is whether any new engine manufacturers have
expressed a 'real' interest in joining Champ Car. "Yes," said Kalkhoven,
"but I can't comment further at this time. I can tell you that we will have
a maximum of two chassis suppliers when we roll out the new car, and possibly even
one. And on the tire front, we have no plans to open the series up to a tire
war. It creates excess speeds, requires more test days, results in tires
that create marbles (single line racing) and increases costs. We will stay a
single tire series for the foreseeable future."
NASCAR has 43-car grids, more than double Champ Car. From our perspective an
18-car grid is far short of what the series needs to develop a sizable following
because each driver brings in new fans. "As far as what's the right number for
Champ Car, I would like to see about 24 to 26," said Kalkhoven. "It's impractical to have 43
open wheel cars on a grid, the 26
number existed for many years."
Short-term Cosworth is the sole supplier of engines for Champ Car. What is
Cosworth's role long-term with Champ Car, particularly if car manufacturers choose
to enter the series?
"Cosworth has to stand on its own two feet. Champ Car must turn
a profit and
provide entertainment. We would not exclude any manufacturer for the benefit of Cosworth,
so yes, in the right situation we will allow multiple manufacturers to compete,
but whatever we do we will not allow engine costs to dictate our series," said
Some people are highly critical that Champ Car is becoming an urban street
circuit series and lament over the fact that Champ Car is throwing its heritage
right out the door with the dropping of each natural terrain road course. What
will it take to get the Road Americas of the world back on the schedule?
snaps Kalkhoven. "It's very simple. Promoters who are active with their
promotion will be successful.
Motor racing exists because of sponsors and fans. In markets where our
promoters really promote we have sponsors and fans."
Speaking of natural terrain road courses, Mexico has one of the best.
Champ Car's popularity in Mexico is a direct result of their biggest name drivers
being in the series. With Fernandez gone, Dominguez talking about F1 and
Jourdain talking to NASCAR, Champ Car must protect their interests in Mexico.
"A lot of people are talking. We will wait
and see who will be on the grid come Long Beach. We are confident. I am
paranoid about events in every single country we are in - Canada, the USA, Mexico,
Australia, etc. It's important that we safeguard our best venues."
The Long Beach Champ Car contract expires after the 2005 event. Many in the IRL
have told AutoRacing1.com that they will be in Long Beach in 2006. That appears to be the next
big battle with Tony George. Could Champ Car indeed lose its signature event to
its arch-rival and if so, can it survive the negative media that will result?
"We have already been approached to hold another street race in
the LA area or Las Vegas on the same day if that were to happen (become an IRL
race), and we will"
"There is a
possibility that we could," said Kalkhoven, "but we have already been approached to
hold another street race in the LA area or Las Vegas on the same day if that were
to happen, and we will. I also believe that the Long Beach City Council is 100% behind
and if there is a change they will not be behind the event and support will wane."
Besides San Jose, which was recently announced, are there other new
USA markets that are on the horizon for Champ Car? "Absolutely, just wait
and see," winked Kalkhoven.
What do you say to the many Champ Car fans out there who still worry
about the future of the sport they love?
can understand their concern, I really do," stated Kalkhoven. A lot of people don't know me and my
partners and the passion that we have for this. We are backing this 24 hours
a day. With that said, I get a bunch of emails from around the world that indicates
to me more and more people are believing in what we are doing. Just
give us time my friend. Give us time."
The author can be contacted at
Go to
to discuss this article
Archived Editorials
More than meets the eye with CART's turbo move
It's time for CART to define its own future
Key upgrades at Road America
Back-breaking work
The rebirth of CART
The hidden costs of Indy Car racing
CART's road and street circuits click with the fans
Is it sport, or just P.T. Barnum show-biz?
Fontana - a victim of friendly fire
CART's 2003 race venues #1 in the world
Meet the Gonzalez brothers
ISC is making enemies in Miami
And the 2002 CART Champion will be….
A wakeup call for CART and the IRL
Chris Pook - making all the right moves
Promoting a race - Adelaide topped them all
AUTOCOURSE is THE CART Yearbook to have
Has anyone noticed?
Should CART race in Adelaide?
Remembering Bob Estes
2002 will be a critical year for CART and for Pook
Tongue-In-Cheek, we take out the crystal ball again
CART & IRL - it's becoming clearer where we're going
What's the holdup on Pook?
Will CART get Shanghaied?
2002 CART season shaping up just fine
CART Franchise Board fails to ratify new engines
Is Ginger just what the doctored ordered for Alex Zanardi?
Vannini plays hardball with Forsythe
Spotlight on Mexico City
Is Premier1 positioned where CART should be?
Has the Gonzalo Rodriguez lawsuit turned in CART's favor?
Jim Russell Advanced Racing Course - Learning to race
CART - a stranger in a strange land
German 500 - measuring the media impact
An in-depth interview with Jonathan Vannini
CART N/A Engine/Car Update
Comparing CART and F1
Vannini advocates major overhaul to rescue CART series
Engines - There, that was easy, now let's race
Americans don't realize what they have in CART
A proposed solution to CART's engine dilemma
Ford Cosworth opens its doors
Bullish on CART
A German's first-time CART experience
My thoughts on a variety of CART issues - by Jon Vannini
AutoRacing1 Exclusive - Is Shanghai in CART's future?
As CART goes global, what about its sponsors?
If Mexico City will get 350,000, would India get 400,000?
The inevitable globalization of CART
New CART TV deal - don't put the CART before the horse
CART in China - Why Shanghai is the best venue
Rockingham is ready for CART. Is CART ready for Rockingham?
Beating a dead horse.; Where's my fork?
Successful CART Venues - It takes two to tango
Setting the record straight on CART's German 500
Rebuilding CART from the grassroots up!
Could this be the break Gidley has been waiting for?
CART, ALMS or NASCAR extravaganza weekends
A true global vision will serve CART well
A proposal for CART and IRL to coexist peacefully
The Triple Crown - a proposal for CART's success
650HP, 750HP, 850HP, it doesn't seem to matter
Movie Review: DRIVEN
Ryan Arciero hopes to continue family dynasty
CART & IRL, a missed opportunity
Things are happening at CART
CART' Data Acquisition Systems - there's a new kid on the block.
CART's next moves will be crucial.
The greatest Long Beach GP of all-time.
CART & IRL - close, and yet so far.
Andretti set to return to Indy
Sam Hornish wins Phoenix, de Ferran punted
Greg Ray wins Phoenix pole, deFerran 5th
CART Engines, If it ain't broke, don't fix it
And the 2001 CART Champion will be....
The HANS Device saved my fathers life
Soft walls or soft cars?
Safety- It's going to take more than just magic to fix
Safety - It's going to take more than just magic to fix
CART vs. IRL, Hatfields vs. McCoys
DRIVEN is CART's best chance to become mainstream
Is CART's problem really a lack of American's?
CART vs. NASCAR - TV Coverage
Bubbas' rule auto racing
Book review - Autocourse 2000/2001
Do heroes make a sport, or does a sport make heroes
To-Do-List, for CART's new President
Lawsuits, Will Greg Moore's final legacy to racing be more than one of…….
Tire Warmers, an idea whose time has come
BrandingCART and their race cars
Will CART's next leader be a corporate visionary?
AddressingCART's TV issues
CART, do you know who you are?
Will CART miss this boat too, - Destined to shadow NASCAR?
Why the new Indy Lights cars should meet IRLspecs
SoftWalls - drivers take a stand while you still can
CART Fan Forum - Highlights from CART's very first Fan Forum
Warren Hughes - A name to remember
CART restarts - NASCAR Style
Mario Andretti Tribute - America's Driver of the Century
Shift w/o Lift- How it works
Aerodynamics- CART's chance to make progressive changes
CART's HP dilemma
Soft Walls - Finally, a safer wall system
BuddyRice deserves a shot at Champ Cars
Choices, Choices, we rate possible new CART venues
CART must avoid Detroit's politics
10ways for CART to invest $100million
Montoya and Ganassi do CART proud at Indy
Welcome to AutoRacing1.com
A year of progress shapes Rockingham
A solution for CART's franchise dilemma
Lausitzring nears completion, fighting hard to win CART date
Paul Tracy keeps his Kool, wins LBGP for2nd time
What is an American driver?
Warming-up at Nazareth
172mph in a Champ Car is the ultimate adrenaline rush
Standing Start Rules proposed standing start rules for CART
Standing Starts are they right for CART?
Champ Car's Minardi 2-seater is the ultimate ride
For Alex Figge and PCM it's baptism by fire
A tribute to Alfred J. Cipolloni
Champ Car owners move to silence critics
Establishing a firm foundation for Champ Car
One-on-one with Champ Car President Steve Johnson
J.R. Hildebrand is one American going places in a hurry
What's new for Champ Car for 2007 - Part 1
Champ Car positions itself for international expansion
Paul Stoddart confirms interest in Champ Car
An inside look at Champ Car TV production
Ho-Pin Tung wants to be Champ Car's first Chinese driver
Stephen King explains Justin Wilson's novel Investor's Club
One-on-one with American sensation AJ Allmendinger
Champ Car moving forward without the IRL
One-on-one with Paul Tracy
Bruce Delahorne explains CDW's sponsorship in Champ Car
One-on-one with Justin Wilson
Champ Car bosses won't be bullied
Part 2: NASCAR/ISC get dirty in Phoenix, out to destroy Open Wheel
Part 1: NASCAR/ISC get dirty in Phoenix, out to destroy Open Wheel
The Rahals: Like father, like son
Why and IRL/Champ Car merger will be a big boost for the sport
Headless Open Wheel Racing appears doomed
Richard Lyons looking at Champ Car for his next challenge
We salute the champions of 2005
Is Jay Howard the next Ayrton Senna?
Interview with Grand-Am President Roger Edmondson
Otaru, Japan Champ Car race moving closer to reality
Champ Car's global appeal may ride on mimicking the Team
Australia concept
Champ Car's Surfers Paradise race promoter "gets it"
Champ Car cements another brick in its foundation
Custom built Champ Cars and Indy Cars
Interview with RuSPORT Team President Jeremy Dale
Conspiracy Theory: What Indy was really all about
Why the Champ Car/IRL war must end
How a
Champ Car and IRL merger might work
Will the battle for Long Beach destroy its Grand Prix?
Katherine Legge has her eyes set on Champ Car
Traveling Light Media - Just what the doctor ordered
Car lays out bold 3-year plan
Champ Car's 2005 driver lineup vastly improved
Hunter-Reay anxious to get racing again
with new team
That sucking sound you hear is NASCAR
Feud - The story of the murder of Mickey Thompson
Yes, Blame Tony and the CART defectors too
Interview with ALMS President Scott Atherton
2005 a foundation laying year for Champ
Kalkhoven talks Champ Car with AutoRacing1
Kalkhoven and Forsythe buy Cosworth from Ford
Carl Russo is bullish on Champ Car
Can this be Champ Car's next-generation car
Champ Car poised for major comeback
Champ Car Race Control - the 'Hot Seat Zone'
Open Wheel Racing is in serious need of consolidation
Champ Car South of the Border, An
interview with Joe Heitzler
There is an easy way for Champ Car and the IRL to unify
From airport to race track, a race within a race
The 2-seater Car is one of Champ Car's biggest assets
Why Bernie Ecclestone could, and should, buy Champ Car now
Champ Car rocks the streets of Times Square in Manhattan
Why did Fernández leave Champ Car? Follow the money....
Next Generation Champ Car: A call for F1 tires
Coming to America? Interview with Ralph Firman Jr.
Open Wheel Racing defeats IRL - Champ Car
Series to continue
Open Wheel Racing needs a win by OWRS - Part
The next generation Champ Cars - Part 2
CART next for Villeneuve?
New deal for CART may be better than first thought
The genius of one Bernard Ecclestone
CART Champ Cars, the next generation - Part 1
Details emerging on CART race in Seoul, South Korea
CART hits a Grand Slam in Mexico City. Now What?
Top-10 Challenges facing new CART owners
CART can still race in Europe, but will they?
For CART, time is of the essence
Making sense of CART's situation
Push-to-Pass means no more parades for CART
An interview with CART's David Clare
What did Roger Penske really mean?
CART must differentiate itself - clearly
turbos make for superior street and race engines
For CART, it's now or never
Chicken or the Egg?
War of the worlds
What Bernie brings to CART
CART, Driven to where?
Is it really about CART vs. IRL?
If I were
The Champ Cars and St. Pete
informal survey of the St. Pete race attendees
Artificial Dissemination
CART, F1 coming to grips with doing business in China
Cancel the Funeral
CART and F1 must, and will, share a common V-10 engine
Book Review: Autocourse 2002-2003 F1 yearbook
Does CART need Michael Andretti?
2002 CART TV ratings by the numbers
Now is the time for CART to redefine its ladder system
CART gets a taste of tifosi passion in Mexico
affair in Mexico
Making sense out of Bernie/CART rumors
Changing of the guard?
Mom, apple pie, CART and....Formula1?
Why CART and Bernie make perfect dance partners
Miami should be a CART and ALMS kickoff party
David slays Goliath in Miami
What to make of Gurney's F1 team
Taking it to the streets, why Miami is a war
CART, like the Phoenix, about to rise up from the ashes
There's more
than handwriting on the wall.....and here's the concrete facts
Day weekend 1952...A weekend I'll never forget
owners show support for CART
CART still
may be in cards for Villeneuve
Bryan Herta, USA's next best chance for F1
Is Paul
Ricard in CART's future?
CART's real attendance numbers
Is Brands
Hatch suitable for Champ Cars?
An Unappealing Appeal, George reigns in GEORGE-town
A candid
conversation with Chris Pook
More than meets the eye with CART's turbo move
It's time for CART to define its own future
upgrades at Road America
Back-Breaking work
rebirth of CART
hidden costs of Indy Car racing
CART's road and street circuits are clicking with the fans
Is it sport, or a P.T. Barnum show?
IRL at Fontana - a victim of friendly fire
CART's 2003 race venues #1 in the world
Meet the Gonzalez brothers
ISC is making enemies in Miami
Copyright 1999-2014 AutoRacing1 is an
independent internet online publication and is not affiliated with, sponsored by, or endorsed
by the IRL., NASCAR, FIA, Sprint, or any other series sponsor.
This material may not be published, broadcast, or redistributed without
Copyright 1999-2014 AutoRacing1 is an
independent internet online publication and is not affiliated with, sponsored by, or endorsed
by the IRL., NASCAR, FIA, Sprint, or any other series sponsor.
This material may not be published, broadcast, or redistributed without


text:
Sign up for our mailing list and learn how you can help us win the battle against unnecessary killing of cats. Sign up now »
Home / What We Do / Care for Cats / Colony Care / Colony Care Guide
Print this Guide
Quick Links
Feral Cat Shelter Options »Learn the difference between straw and hay »Winter Weather Colony Care Tips »
Use our Email Assistance Form
3) Providing shelter. Some colonies find shelter for themselves in a shed or under a building where their safety is uncertain. You might want to consider building a shelter for the cats. It can keep them safe from the elements and help you control their location and deter them from neighbors' properties.
A good size for a shelter is at least 2x3' and at least 18" high. Larger shelters are not necessarily better, since heat disperses quickly, leaving the inside as cold as the outside. A space just big enough for three to five cats to huddle is best. Cats generally use shelters during winter months more than others. Consider size for transport in your vehicle to and from the colony site as well. Again, camouflage the shelter as much as possible using dark green or brown paint. Anything that stands out could be mistaken for trash and could bring unwanted attention to the cats.
Next Step: Monitoring members of the colony and providing ongoing health care.

subset: commoncrawl


text:
MONTREAL - On Tuesday, June 5, Patti Smith releases Banga – the iconic rocker's first album of original material in eight years. Smith recently spoke to Jordan Zivitz of The Gazette about the album. Here's a complete transcript of the interview:
Gazette: I spoke to you in 2007, and remember you saying that you wanted to travel while making your next album ...
Patti Smith: I did a lot of travelling, yeah.
Gazette: But from the liner notes you wrote, it also sounds like you went where life took you, that you didn't really have a map in hand.
Smith: Exactly. Well, the thing is, I like my travels to be akin with my studies, and so when I started being smitten with Bulgakov and started reading a lot of Russian literature and then watching a lot of Tarkovsky, being very immersed in Russian culture, I got some jobs in Russia. The band went to Russia, we travelled around and I travelled around, and it's the same as when I decided to write a song about St. Francis of Assisi (Constantine's Dream): I went to Assisi, I went to all of the places that resonated in the story of St. Francis. But I've always done that. We have very idiosyncratic tours – I always make sure that the band does well financially, but a lot of our tours are based on things that I'm studying, and I'll make choices as to where we go so that I can see something special. I might want to go to Stockholm because I'm studying Strindberg, or go to the English countryside where Charlotte Brontë wrote. So I do a lot of my tour planning around studying certain artists or studying the culture of certain areas. And as you see, we did a lot of travelling.
Gazette: At the same time, even when you weren't making the songs with your band members present, it sounds like you were always near home in a way – the way you speak in the liner notes of your band also working independently on these songs and the sense of community that was fostered. It made me wonder, how much of your artistic strength does come from your band?
Smith: Well, I have sort of two modes of working: I have a very solitary mode, which would encompass taking photographs, writing poetry and the other types of writing. But the band, they're my public life. Most of my public life is centred around the band or individuals in the band. They've given me a lot of confidence, they travel with me, they share my ideas and my enthusiasm for things, they inspire me with the music they write. Basically, it's like having a brotherhood. I've been working with (guitarist) Lenny Kaye since 1971, with my drummer (Jay Dee Daugherty) since '75 and with (bassist) Tony Shanahan since '95, and this record – more than any other record, I think – really reflects our growth and our unity. Each member wrote songs for it, we produced it together, and even worked in a different way, as you said – Tony Shanahan worked on songs in the studio without me while I was in Europe doing other things, and then we would all convene and see what each other came up with. It was a very, very collaborative experience.
Gazette: That really struck me, because so often if an album is a patchwork of recordings done over a period of time, it really sounds like a patchwork, and there's almost a sense of absence in the songs because either the band wasn't all in the same place or the songs didn't all come from the same place. But on Banga, it sounds like your most communal album.
Smith: That's great, because you're exactly right. And we did them in large chunks: I didn't do one song a year. We would spend several weeks together and do a portion of the album, then sometimes – because I had a huge art exhibit in France, and my book (Just Kids) came out – I had to take a hiatus. But we were always working, we were always reconvening, and we also had more material than we needed, and we chose the material that really seemed to work the best together. I mean, I actually cut out three or four of the songs that I wrote myself, just because they reflected my own sensibilities more than the sensibility of the band. And there was unity all around. That's what the song Banga is about. You know, it's sort of an absurd little song, but it's really about love and loyalty. It's my song for the band. And there's so much trust. I trusted Tony Shanahan to make some demos on his own, and I've never done that before. They trusted Lenny and I to go to Italy; Seneca was done live in Italy without the band. And then we would all reconvene; we would all be together when we'd be mixing it or I'd be redoing the vocal. So every song, everyone was present. Whether they worked on it or not, or conceived of it or not. And we talked as a band, the four of us: what songs worked best together, and sequencing, and especially Tony Shanahan on this album – Tony, he really stepped up. He's the younger one, he's probably the more musical one, and he worked really, really hard on this record.
Gazette: What do you mean by the more musical one?
Smith: Well, he's the one who's most pop-oriented. I'm not saying that he's completely pop – he's also innovative. I mean, Tony wrote Amerigo, and it was really Tony's idea … I did the talking, reading the letter in sections of the song, but I thought for sure he'd want me to sing in those first parts. And he said, "Oh no, I like that it's just your voice, the spoken word." Because when we first met Tony, he was a very … you know, he loves the Beatles and the Beach Boys – more pop than the rest of us – but he's evolved with us and he's become a great improviser, and now will go for the less traditional idea much more than he did when he was younger. So we've all really evolved together. But Tony wrote, for instance, April Fool, Maria, Amerigo and This Is the Girl. So that's what I mean. His songs are more … I don't know if you'd call them traditional, but they have more of a song-like quality. (Laughs)
Gazette: I'd like to go in the opposite direction – not that it's not a song – but I really have to ask about Constantine's Dream …
Smith: Yeah, well see, there's Lenny's territory. That's what Lenny and I, when we're on our own, tend to write. When Tony and I are together, we'll write a song like This Is the Girl. When Lenny and I spend our time, we're more likely to go toward something like Constantine's Dream. How that was built, well, it's very complicated how I landed with the improvisational lyrics. But as a track, it started simply. Lenny and I were … we were somewhere, and Lenny was working on a rock song and he had one guitar phrase. And then he was working on a different song and had another phrase, and I listened to the two of them and we started talking about it, and I said, "Well, why don't we put these together?" So Lenny put the two phrases together, and that became the driving force of Constantine's Dream. And simultaneously, I was thinking about what our long piece would be. Because I like to have one long piece on the record. And I was starting to develop it in my mind, so I asked Lenny to build me a track. So Lenny went in the studio, and we explored a few ways of doing things that we hadn't before. For improvisations, we … am I rambling?
Gazette: (Laughs) No, I love hearing about this.
Smith: We usually go into the studio with some chord changes and then we just go in and improvise everything. But I wanted to try something different, so I had the band build me a track. Lenny wrote the guitar phrases, the band built the track, and then Lenny and I took the track to Italy, because I had met a band in Arezzo, Italy – sort of a gypsy band, an Italian band. And they do more of that interpretive sound – there's a steel guitar, a violin, an acoustic guitar, and when you listen to Seneca and Constantine's Dream, all of those overtones, it sounds like feedback or something, because they're very unusual – the steel guitar player, a lot of those howling sounds are just his interpretive way of playing steel guitar. So they built me a track, and then we put it away and we worked on the rest of the album. And when I was ready, after like two years of study about St. Francis, Piero della Francesca, Christopher Columbus – I mean, I read SO many books to make a 10-minute improvisation. (Laughs) I have a roomful of books that I distilled down into those 10 minutes. And when I was ready, I went into the studio, the band was there to give me encouragement, and I improvised my lyrics. I did two takes, and I think we used the second one. It's all one take on the record. Then we added ... I have a very good friend in Italy, a very spiritual guy, who recited St. Francis's prayer in Italian, and we added his voice.
Gazette: Is that Stefano, the one who guided you on your journey of landmarks related to St. Francis?
Smith: (Laughs) Yes, exactly. You've read the liner notes. Yes. He's my very good friend. He's also one of my Italian agents, but he's become a good friend to us all. And he has such a spiritual nature that I just asked him to recite St. Francis's prayer, and we added it to the song. But it's an improvisation. A lot of the record is live: Nine is a completely live cut, with that beautiful improvisation by Tom Verlaine; Seneca is live; Banga is live. Some things were more laborious – like, Amerigo has the strings – and some things were done very light and simply, like This Is the Girl, and some was live.
Gazette: Talking about how a lot of this was live reminds me: any time I've seen you perform on stage, it seems like for you music is always … maybe it sounds pretentious, but always breathing, never scripted. I mean, even with the songs that are more influenced by Tony Shanahan on this album, I could see them taking off in various other directions live.
Smith: Oh, absolutely. And when I say that about Tony, I say that to praise him. I'm happy with the diversity of my band. But that's not pretentious at all. It's actually a beautiful way to say it. Really, the way I look at it is, I'm not a musician. I can't really play anything. I can play, like, five chords on acoustic guitar or a little piano by ear, but I'm not a musician. I sing, but almost everybody in the world can sing. But I am a performer. And I think that's my strength, and I'm always in the present when I'm performing live. I'm always there, right with the people. I would like to sing really great or do a good job, but sometimes we don't, but that doesn't bother me as long as we're present with the people and we're staying in communication. We all experience the night together. And I go in to do a record with the same type of feeling. Obviously it's permanent, it doesn't have the impermanence of a concert, but the idea is to still communicate with your listener, to give something of yourself at that moment. So we don't labour on making everything perfect, redoing the vocals 50 times. I'm not a perfect worker, and that's not the idea. The idea is hopefully people will get a feeling that a human is present, speaking to them or singing to them. Does that make sense?
Gazette: It does, but there's a huge gulf between artists who spend 100 takes trying to perfect something and you managing to nail Constantine's Dream in two takes – and only using one. So I think you're selling yourself a bit short by saying you're not a musician, because there's a real musicality to what you do as a singer.
Smith: Well, even my son will say, "Mom. You're not a musician." (Laughs) But I don't mind. It's not important to me to be a musician, but it is important to me to feel that I'm a good performer, because that's what I'm there for: communicating. But perfection has its beauty. If you hear a perfect pop song or a perfect dance song that just carries you away and just makes you want to dance, that has its greatness, too. I just think that the important thing when you're making records or you're doing anything public is to communicate – it's to make people feel something. And whether it's (Adele's) Rolling in the Deep or (PJ Harvey's) The Words That Maketh Murder, or Bach, or Glenn Gould working incessantly on every single second, trying to create some kind of perfection in his mind – it's all interesting.
Gazette: Do you think you've ever written and recorded a perfect pop song?
Smith: (Laughs) No. I wish I could. If I could, I would do it. I mean, I think that the little Amy Winehouse song, This Is the Girl, is a perfect little song in that it's self-contained. And there are certain things that we've done, certain improvisations or certain pieces, that even though they're ours I've listened to them many, many, many times, like Memento Mori. And I like this record. I have to say, I really like our record. Imperfect or not, I'm happy with it.
Gazette: There's a line I wanted to go back to in Constantine's Dream that stuck with me, where you're describing an idyllic vision of St. Francis, and then you say you couldn't give yourself to him because you felt the call of art. It seemed like a very tragic line – almost as tragic as the devastation recited elsewhere in the piece …
Smith: Oh, thank you. Well, that's been my lifetime struggle. That has been my struggle. It's very nice of you to point that out. Because that was really the true core of that song. I mean, there's two cores of that song: the global core, which is a concern for our environment, but there's also the true core of it for myself, personally, which is something that I never thought I was going to address. When I went in there to improvise, I went in to improvise the story of St. Francis, certain aspects of the painting (by della Francesca) and certain aspects of Columbus's voyage. I didn't expect for it to become such a personal song. So I'm glad that you noted that.
Audio: Listen to Fuji-san, from Patti Smith's new album Banga