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High Profile Crimes and Trials (not missing persons)
Jodi Arias trial - for the murder of Travis Alexander
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Travis Alexander of Mesa, AZ Found Murdered June 2008-Jodi Arias on Trial
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Topic: Travis Alexander of Mesa, AZ Found Murdered June 2008-Jodi Arias on Trial (Read 1415163 times)
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Re: Travis Alexander of Mesa, AZ Found Murdered June 2008-Jodi Arias on Trial
Reply #40 on:
January 13, 2013, 10:07:34 PM »
Jodi Arias Trial Update: Prosecution presents testimony to prove Arias, who killed ex-boyfriend, is a pathological liar
January 11, 2013
(CBS) PHOENIX - The prosecution presented testimony Thursday aimed at proving Jodi Arias is a pathological liar who plotted the murder of her ex-boyfriend, 30-year-old Travis Alexander. Arias, now 32, is facing the death penalty for the brutal stabbing and shooting of the former motivational speaker and salesman in his Mesa, Ariz., home on June 4, 2008.
Arias was first arrested in her hometown of Yreka, in Siskiyou County, Calif., after Mesa police detectives discovered physical evidence that linked her to the crime. In court on Thursday, a former Siskiyou County sheriff's detective, Nathan Mendes, who assisted in the investigation, presented incriminating receipts. The numerous receipts were found at Arias's grandparents' home, where she was living at the time of the murder.
The prosecution showed that Arias rented a car in Redding, Calif., instead of her small town of Yreka, implying that she wouldn't be recognized there.
Numerous other credit card receipts that were presented provide a physical trail of Arias driving through Southern California and Nevada as she described to police, but no receipts reflect a presence in Arizona.
The prosecution is trying to establish that Arias plotted Alexander's murder after she learned he was taking another woman on a business trip to Cancun. After the murder, she visited a new love interest in Utah, who testified Arias was sexually aggressive with him less than 24 hours after Alexander's slaying.
Arias' defense team also filed a motion for a mistrial after contending that the state's theory on the order of how Alexander was killed has changed over time. The defense argued that the lead Mesa police detective, Esteban Flores, initially believed in 2008 that Alexander was shot first and then stabbed in the chest and across his neck, causing the fatal injury. But testimony during the trial by the medical examiner, Dr. Kevin Horn, and repeated by Flores, was reversed. They stated it to be stabbing and then the shooting.
The reversal shows a level of suffering for Alexander and could increase the severity of punishment for Arias who is facing the death penalty. Arias' attorneys have admitted she committed the crime in self-defense. They say she killed Alexander, a devout Mormon, because he was abusive, controlling and a sexual deviant in his relationship with Arias.
The judge denied the motion for a mistrial. Prosecution testimony continues on Monday.
" Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Moynihan
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Re: Travis Alexander of Mesa, AZ Found Murdered June 2008-Jodi Arias on Trial
Reply #41 on:
January 13, 2013, 10:09:32 PM »
Artwork of accused murderer Jodi Arias auctioned on eBay to pay legal bills
January 13, 2013
Hand-drawn artwork created by Jodi Arias, who is currently on trial for murdering her former lover, Travis Alexander, is being auctioned off on eBay to help pay her legal fees, according to a Jan. 11, 2013 Radar Online report.
The website discovered that her work includes an image called "Unity," which shows two women of different ethnicities holding hands, reports The Christian Post. At press, the price was up to $199.99 with two offers.
Other pieces of Arias' work that have already sold on eBay for as much as $150, include faces of women named after the Zodiac, such as one of an attractive female with red hair entitled Scorpio.
Radar notes the money she garners will be used to pay for costs associated with her trial.
" Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Moynihan
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Re: Travis Alexander of Mesa, AZ Found Murdered June 2008-Jodi Arias on Trial
Reply #42 on:
January 13, 2013, 10:20:34 PM »
Jodi Arias Defense Demands Mistrial
Aired January 10, 2013 - 19:00 ET
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: The defense in the Jodi Arias trial just dropped a bombshell in court moments ago, demanding a mistrial. What`s the uproar around one investigator`s testimony? We`re going to tell you in a second.
Also what`s it like to be the victim of a stalker? We`re going inside obsessive relationships with people who survived. Two women who have survived serious stalking tonight.
VELEZ-MITCHELL (voice-over): Tracking Jodi Arias. In court today, Jodi Arias`s long, strange journey from California to Arizona. Prosecutors say she was on a mission to murder Travis Alexander. Do these receipts reveal a secret murder plan?
Plus inside the world Jodi Arias came from and why it might have made Travis`s life seem even more glamorous and appealing.
Plus, I`ll talk to another stalking victim who sees creepy parallels with her case.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was what again?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: June 7, 2008.
RYAN BURNS, WITNESS: She got on top of me pretty aggressively, and we were kissing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Some type of romantic event within hours of basically barbarically brutally killing someone you professed your love to?
STEVE FLORES, LEAD DETECTIVE: I answered that the gunshot was possibly first.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How deep was this wound?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It goes all the way back to the spine.
MIKE BROOKS, HLN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: That`s 3 1/2 inches. That`s how deep that stab wound.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She could sneak into his house through the doggie door and sleep on his couch at night without knowing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She had long hair, and when she came in and got in the car.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She said she got lost. She got on the wrong freeway, and she was kind of airheaded like that.
JODI ARIAS, MURDER SUSPECT: There is an explanation for all of that. And that will be made known very soon.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He is saying she wasn`t present in their sexual behavior. She wasn`t emotional. She was dead inside.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight fireworks just now in the Jodi Arias courtroom as the defense demands that the judge throw the whole case out and ask for a mistrial. Jodi`s lawyers say that one cop made a huge blunder.
Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell coming to you live.
The stunning 32-year-old admits she stabbed her ex-boyfriend 29 times, slit Travis Alexander`s throat from ear to ear, and she shot him in the face. Just look at these vicious wounds she left on his hands. Look at that. But Jodi claims she killed Travis in self-defense.
Of course, that wasn`t always her story. The prosecution played this clip from "Inside Edition," showing just one set -- just one set of Jodi`s many lies.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What really happened in there?
ARIAS: In a nutshell, two people took Travis`s life. Two monsters.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You did not shoot Travis?
ARIAS: No, I`ve never even shot a real gun.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You did not stab him 27 times?
ARIAS: No. That`s heinous. I`d never...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You didn`t slit his throat from ear to ear?
ARIAS: I can`t imagine slitting anyone`s throat.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: It is heinous, and of course, she now admits, "Yes, I did it." In self-defense, she claims.
Now, Jodi`s defense hopes none of those lies will matter. Just a few minutes ago, they attacked the lead detective, Steve Flores, saying he made a big mistake, so much so that it should be a mistrial, throw out the whole case.
The medical examiner says Jodi first stabbed Travis and then slit his throat and, at the very end, shot him in the forehead as a final goodbye.
But Detective Flores testified Jodi shot him first before slitting his throat, before stabbing him. Listen to the courtroom battle.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s what I asked you a few moments ago: did you take any steps to correct your inaccurate testimony? And you said no, it wasn`t inaccurate. It was a -- it was a misunderstanding. I`m confused. Is it -- is it inaccurate or is it a misunderstanding? Which is it?
FLORES: Well, it`s a misunderstanding of what Dr. Horn told me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s a pretty big one, isn`t it?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Does the sequence of the attacks that led to Travis`s death prove self-defense? Or was Jodi a deranged, love-obsessed stalker, determined to kill him one way or the other.
Again, I`m going to talk to a woman in a moment who was stalked for a long time. Terrifying.
I want to hear from you. Call me: 1-877-JVM-SAYS; 1-877-586-7297.
Straight out to "In Session`s" Beth Karas. You were in the courtroom for this extremely dramatic development. Take us there. What happened?
BETH KARAS, TRUTV`S "IN SESSION": Jane, you know, this was after the jury left, and everyone thought court was over, but all of a sudden the judge takes the bench again.
Jodi Arias comes out, not looking exactly the way she did throughout the day today in front of the jury. She now is not wearing her glasses, sitting up straight listening to all of this argument.
We don`t cover a lot of death penalty cases. We`re on the edges of our seat, wondering, "Oh, no is this going to be a dismissal or a mistrial, starting all over again?"
And that is because what you just said Detective Flores said at a hearing, that goes to the death-penalty issues, that the sequence of shots was the gun -- the sequence of wounds was a gunshot to the head first. And yet at trial it actually came out that it was last, that that`s what the evidence supports.
So the defense says, "We need to go start all over again with a new hearing to determine probable cause with this aggravating factor for the death penalty."
But the judge said, "No, it is cruel" -- that`s the aggravating factor -- "it`s cruel whether the shot to the head is first, or the stab wound to the heart is first. Regardless, all those wounds on his body were made while he was still alive or he wouldn`t have bled so much. He suffered. He suffered mental anguish. He suffered physical pain. This man knew he was going to die.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. One of the reasons it`s a death penalty case is because it`s extremely cruel, like you said, an aggravating factor that puts it over the top to a death penalty case.
But the defense is saying, well, basically, if she shot him first, it`s not as cruel. Therefore, maybe it`s not a death penalty case after all. Jodi Arias`s attorneys -- whoa -- they tried to get the judge to throw this whole case out.
Well, as you might imagine, prosecutors fought back, and they fought back hard. Check this out.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Travis Alexander suffered. He was in physical anguish and mental anguish. And the defendant knew about it, because she killed him three different ways, and he had defensive wounds. Therefore, we ask that you deny them what they`re asking.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Darren Kavinoky, host of "Deadly Sins." Season two premiers this Saturday, 9 p.m. on Investigation Discovery. Why did the defense make this such a big deal? I think the average person at home says, "Who cares whether she shot him first or stabbed him first? She killed him."
DARREN KAVINOKY, HOST, "DEADLY SINS": Well, first of all, the defense, especially in a case like this where, on balance, when you just look at this, you think, "Gosh, which side would I rather be arguing?" Most folks would rather be arguing the side of the prosecution. It seems to be the better reasoned pace.
When you`re in that position, the defense is in the business of making mounds out of molehills. So they`ve got to get whatever leverage they can.
But as you`ve pointed out with Beth, this is a death-penalty case. Very unusual, by the way, that you see women as defendants in death-penalty cases, but here it is, and the state is trying to execute her.
So in that particular case, the theory upon which to support that death penalty is that the crime was carried out with a particular callous, cruel manner. And if he was indeed shot first and then the stabbing happened later, then as you`ve articulated, he would not be conscious. He wouldn`t have that conscious awareness of his imminent demise, and therefore, this should be a do-over.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right.
KAVINOKY: If you buy the defense position, this should be a do-over.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Jordan Rose, do you think it should be a do-over? That`s a pretty big mistake by a detective.
ORDAN ROSE: Look, this was not as much about if she was -- if she shot him or she stabbed him 27 times first. It was much more about discrediting this particular detective`s testimony. Because think about this. They just need -- they just need one juror in that jury room to say, "Wow, I really don`t trust that guy."
It doesn`t matter if it was a shooting or a stabbing, it`s all bad. Certainly, you can make a case either way that if she shot him first, if she stabbed him first, it`s better for her self-defense.
But this was all about discrediting the witness and causing some sort of reasonable doubt in the mind of just at least one juror.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Eric Swartzreit (ph), criminal defense attorney, does the defense have a point here? This is a pretty big mistake. I mean, it`s a high-profile trial. Figure it out, people. Figure it out, prosecution witnesses. It`s shooting, stabbing, throat slitting. It`s not that complicated. Figure out the order.
ERIC SWARTZREIT (PH), CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Death penalty cases are reserved for the most egregious cases there are. You have a female here, this alleged femme fatale. But you always want issues in a criminal case. A mistrial. Sometimes be careful what you ask for. If the case was going really well, I`ll tell you that they probably wouldn`t want this mistrial. But this girl has told more tales than Pinocchio. This case is spinning out of control for them. They want to ask for a mistrial. They want the issue.
Does it matter? Stabbed, shot, what happened first? Cruel, heinous, atrocious. Those are the issues for the death penalty, and it matters.
But I think is an issue of credibility, not an issue that the judge should grant a mistrial. That goes to the detective`s credibility and that`s an issue. And it`s a point for the defense with the jury, but not a point to get a brand-new trial and not a point for a do-over.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jon Lieberman, my producer tells me you`re champing at the bit. What do you have to say?
JON LIEBERMAN, HLN CONTRIBUTOR: Let`s talk about credibility. I mean, the prosecution has done such a good job at destroying Jodi Arias`s credibility. She has zero. If you watching the case, the prosecution has done an excellent job of meticulously walking us through each one of Jodi Arias`s lies. She even lied about things that were inconsequential, like where she worked at a certain time. This case is about credibility, but it`s about Jodi not having it.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Listen, this is exhibit A for don`t predict the outcome of these high-profile trials. As I`ve said a million times, they are runaway freight trains. They can go this way and that at a moment`s notice. It`s like a Perry Mason show. Somebody walks in, and the whole thing explodes in your face. So don`t assume that this case is over. It`s just getting started. There is no such thing as a an open-and-shut case.
Let`s go out to the phone lines. Mary, South Carolina, your question or thought, Mary?
CALLER: Yes. Thank you, Jane, and thank you for all you do for our animals.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you for caring, as well.
CALLER: OK. I have two quick questions. One, why was Jodi living with Grandma and Grandpa instead of Mom and Dad? And...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. What you`re saying...
CALLER: ... the second one is, the ex-boyfriend with the child she lived with, is he going to testify about their breakup?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Beth Karas, take it away.
KARAS: Well, Darryl Brewer (ph) is the ex-boyfriend you`re talking about. And the defense did talk about him and show a photograph of him during opening statements, so I do believe we`ll hear from him or about him. But I think he may testify.
As for why she was living with her grandparents from April 2008 until she killed Travis or until she was arrested, we don`t have the answer to that yet. Her mother has been in the courtroom, however, but we don`t have the reason why.
I do know that she was a problem as an adolescent. Her parents had a hard time controlling her. And she used to run away a lot, and she dropped out of high school, but she did come from what sounds like a stable home.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And we are going to be comparing Jodi Arias`s grandparents` home with Travis Alexander`s home coming up to show you why she may have gravitated towards Travis`s home.
And we`re also going to be talking to a woman who was stalked by her ex-husband for years. It`s a -- really, an epic case. She and a couple of other stalking victims are going to tell their incredible stories in a moment.
BROOKS: This is one of the knives that I carry. This has a three- inch blade on it, Vinny. And it`s a very, very heavy duty knife. And you see where this orange mark is? That`s 3 1/2 inches. That`s how deep that stab wound that the prosecution thinks was the first stab wound in the chest, just right over his heart. That`s how deep it went.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He wants to paint the picture to the jury that this is a feeble little bookworm that could no way do these horrible things.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She would sneak into his house through the doggie door and sleep on his couch at night without him knowing it.
ARIAS: He always said, "We`re not dating anyone else."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She had followed us on the first date that we went on.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: The victim, Travis Alexander`s, friends all talked about Jodi`s obsession with Travis even after they broke up. Listen to this.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Has he been threatened by anyone recently?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, he has. He has an ex-girlfriend that`s been bothering him.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She had followed us on the first date that we went on.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`ve heard stories of her watching them sleep or I`ve heard stories of her watching through windows or doorways.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Following him around on dates, watching him sleep? This is very sick behavior. Could this kind of obsessive love lead somebody to inflict wounds like the ones we saw on Travis during the autopsy photos, if that love was taken away, if she felt rejected?
I want to go to Michelle Ward, psychologist, but also you are a stalking victim. And we are trying to figure out when love goes from, well, healthy love to obsessive love to stalking and when this one crossed the line. And I think part of the problem was that she could still get access to him. Whatever her allure was, she managed to convince him, I think. She`s the one convincing him to have just one more one-night stand.
MICHELLE WARD, PSYCHOLOGIST: That`s what I would guess, also. And the thing is that the mind of a stalker is an awful place. I mean, they ruminate and just really fixate on this obsession. I mean, she`s not brushing her teeth without thinking of him. She`s not showering without thinking of him. And that`s what we`re seeing here.
You know, they translate every action into something having to do with them, the stalker does, and they can`t let it go. And you know the saying, "If I can`t have you, nobody else can"? That`s when we get a murdering stalker.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes.
WARD: That`s exactly what Jodi Arias was feeling. I mean, she was not going to let Travis go. She couldn`t escape the hell that was her head. She wasn`t going to live any more with him on this planet. And that`s what I think happens here.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I think that the inciting incident -- and I agree with him -- the inciting incident was his decision to take another woman on vacation to Cancun, a woman who didn`t particularly like him. She said, "Well, I`ll go, but I`ll go as your friend. I don`t want to date you."
So it was almost like salt in the wounds: "Oh, you`re having sex with me, and you`re going to take this woman who doesn`t even want you, on vacation? I`m not good enough to take on vacation, much less marry?"
In one of her online conversations with this new love interest -- remember, after she kills Travis Alexander, she goes up to Utah and canoodles with another guy, Ryan Burns. Jodi admits to him that she secretly went through Travis`s phone -- cell phone, and on it, she finds the number of a woman she thinks Travis is dating, sort of two-timing her. Listen to what she decides. Listen to how Jodi Arias thinks.
BURNS: "I decided to text her back," quote, "`Time to cuddle with Jodi. Good night.` Then I deleted the message, went to sleep and never mentioned it to him.
"One day while he was taking a nap, I took his phone and read his text messages. Bad, I know."
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Bad, I know. She knows she`s doing something bad. She`s also accused of tire slashing, anonymous emailing, moving near Travis, hacking his Facebook.
Kristen Pratz (ph), you are a stalking victim and a victim`s advocate out of Orlando, Florida. What -- when you hear this litany of stalking behavior, does it remind you of what you went through?
KRISTEN PRATZ (PH), VICTIM`S ADVOCATE: It really does, actually. It`s almost textbook what probably happened to me, if Patrick my stalker, didn`t -- wasn`t arrested and wasn`t put on trial for stalking. It`s a really scary thing to hear.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: What were some of the things that he did to you?
PRATZ (PH): He would send me Facebook messages. He`d call me. He`d hitchhike to Orlando. He didn`t live in Orlando. And he would hang out in places he thought I would be. He would send messages to my boyfriend and tell them that I was the one he was supposed to be with. He would make YouTube videos. It was -- it was tiresome and really scary.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, that`s very similar to what Jodi did. She allegedly sent an e-mail to Travis`s new girlfriend, basically in weirdly religious language, saying, "Ye have sinned," if -- words to the effect of "if you lay with him, you have sinned." Kooky stuff, crazy stuff.
More on the other side.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I think the hardest thing for me is just how much of an effect he had on not only myself, but everyone that came in contact with him. You know, like you said, it`s something that was so hard for me that, four plus years later, I`m still crying about it. You know, it`s not something I like to think about. It`s not something I like to talk about. And...
JUDGE SHERRY STEPHENS, OVERSEEING TRIAL: There is probable cause to believe that this offense was especially cruel, under the theory that it did involve both physical and mental suffering of the victim. So the motion for a mistrial is denied. The motion for a new finding of probable cause in the aggravators is denied.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Faced with overwhelming forensic evidence from the autopsy that is just shocking the jury, the defense decides to counteract with a wild card, calling for a mistrial, saying, "Wow, the medical examiner told one story about the order in which Jodi Arias killed Travis Alexander, and the lead detective tells a totally different order. So the medical examiner says he was shot at the end, and the detective said he was shot first. Well, they can`t get their stories straight. That`s huge. Let`s call for a mistrial."
The judge said, "Nah, not so huge. We`re going to continue with the trial." That happened just moments ago.
Let`s go to the phone lines. Lisa, Ontario, your question or thought. Lisa, Ontario.
CALLER: Well, hi, Jane. Can I please ask, if this woman Jodi was so in love with Travis, No. 1, why did she till him? And then No. 2, after she did so, why did she go to another guy`s house and fool around with him?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, excellent question. Listen to an e-mail read in court. Now, this is allegedly from Travis about Jodi, in which he refers to Jodi`s sexual talents but also refers to her in terms that are not flattering, to say the least.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you remember seeing e-mails in which Mr. Alexander referred to Ms. Arias as a, quote, "(EXPLETIVE DELETED) wonder"?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hearsay.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As a slut?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As a whore?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Michelle Ward, again, you were a victim of stalking, and you`re a psychologist. Could this whole bloody case boil down to a woman who didn`t like Travis`s attitude toward her and grew to feel a murderous rage against her supposedly secret lover? Could it be that simple?
WARD: Yes. She`s a mixed bag of a lot of different psychopathologies. I mean, she fits the exact profile of a love-obsessed stalker. I mean, she`s absolutely that.
But once she kills him, she does not behave in a way that a scorned lover, you know, who was fighting for her life and just lost it one day, would behave. She behaves like a psychopath. I mean, she has -- devoid of no emotion, no guilt, no remorse. She`s not a typical person, and it`s not love that she ever felt for this poor victim. She`s a whole different beast.
And unfortunately, you know, we come across them -- the girl that you have on your show, Kristen, she had a horrible stalker. And in fact, I`ve seen all of the videos. He`s worse than she even described him. He`s one of the scariest people I`ve ever read about and looked into. These people are nuts...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Kristen Pratz (ph)...
WARD: ... and they are dangerous.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Kristen Pratz (ph), stalking victim out of Orlando and victim advocate, when you hear these things that Jodi Arias has done and said, does it give you chills, like, "Oh, my gosh, that could have been me"?
PRATZ (ph): Oh, yes. It`s a lot different. For someone who`s just in love with someone and then someone who`s violently obsessed with someone, to -- to watch and to hear what Jodi has done. It`s really terrifying to think that that probably could have happened to me, and it`s something that I have to think about every day.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m so glad it didn`t happen to you. And that`s part of the importance of listening and watching this case, is that we learned from this horror so that we can avoid similar outcomes and protect ourselves is somebody is obsessed with you, you think they`re becoming obsessed with you, if you think you`re getting stalked, you can take action to protect yourself and have nothing to do with the person. Never interact with them, not for any reason whatsoever.
More on the other side.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Anyone that could kill anybody, then not be physically ill, let alone how brutal it was, to then turn around and you don`t have some kind of romantic event within hours, basically barbarically, brutally killing someone you professed your love to, it`s beyond me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think most people that know her can see through this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She had two small bandages, it seems like, on one of her fingers -- a couple of fingers.
She told me that she worked at Margaritaville and she had cut her finger.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is there a business establishment, a bar or restaurant by the name of Margaritaville?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, sir.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: What a day in court, the defense asked for a mistrial but they don`t get it. They said well, the medical examiner tells one story about the order in which Travis Alexander is killed and the lead detective says that well, it happened a different way and therefore they don`t know what their stories are and let`s throw out the case and the judge said no to that.
Meanwhile in court today, the prosecution, they basically took us through Jodi Arias` bizarre journey, her "mission to murder" as the prosecutors would say, from California, it started just before Travis is killed obviously. Receipts show Jodi rents a car from Redding, California June 2, 2008. She drives through various parts of the state on that day and the next day. And she gets to Arizona on June 4, kills Travis Alexander.
Then she takes off. By June 6, receipts show that she`s gone into Nevada and then she ends up in Utah where she makes outs with a friend of Travis Alexander, somebody who wasn`t a close friend but who knew him and worked with him. And by June 7, she returns her car back to Redding, California.
Wow, that`s what I call a murderous road trip, at least according to the prosecution. Shanna Hogan, author of "Picture Perfect", you are writing a book about this case. To me, that is evidence of premeditation, they believe she took the gun from her house. She drives quite a distance in order to rent a car. And then she goes on this crazy trip where she kills Travis and then ends up making out with his friend in another state.
SHANNA HOGAN, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: It`s absolutely premeditated and evidence of a premeditated murder. But it actually goes even further than what was presented in court today that the car that she rented in Redding, they originally tried to give her a red car and she returned it and said it smelled like smoke. She didn`t want something too flashy. She ended up getting like a white, more modest car that she ended up turning the license plate upside down when she was in Travis` neighborhood.
Also her phone was turned off for a 24-hour period of time that day that he went missing and murdered that he`s presumed dead. Her phone was turned off. She stopped making purchases on her debit card. She was clearly trying to hide her trail and that type of stuff is going to come in court as we go forward.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And the guy she was supposed to visit a couple of days earlier, she says the reason I`m late is that I got lost, I lost my charger, I was tired and I slept. He bought it until he found out that Travis Alexander was killed. And then he remembers oh yes she had cuts on her fingers.
Travis` friends find it disgusting that Jodi Arias killed their friends. She admits she killed him, she just says it`s self-defense and then drives to Utah and makes out with this new love interest Ryan Burns. And he testified that she was the aggressive one. She kind of jumped on him. Listen to this.
RYAN BURNS, FRIEND OF TRAVIS ALEXANDER: From the second we woke up, we were kissing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And what else happened?
BURNS: She got on top of me, pretty aggressively and we were kissing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When she got on top of you very aggressively, where was her genital area compare with yours?
BURNS: She was right on top of me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Anyone that could kill anybody then not be physically ill, let alone how brutal it was to then turn around and go have some type of romantic event within hours of basically, barbarically, brutally killing someone you profess your love to -- we told Travis, you can do so much better than this.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jordan Rose, isn`t that game, set, match. You kill somebody, you say it`s self-defense, but you go and have -- basically make out -- not full-on sex -- but make out and fool around with another guy the next day?
JORDAN ROSE, ATTORNEY: This was the best witness for the defense (SIC) -- meaning here we have her at best being a liar, at worst cold blooded killer showing virgin turned vixen right there in the courtroom because we can all imagine if somehow you end up killing someone in self- defense, with all of the trauma ma, the mental trauma that that may cause, you still cannot imagine, a couple of hours later, driving to another state and making out with some stranger. That`s crazy.
So, I think that particular witness was credibly effective in his testimony and the state is just lucky to have found the guy.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s a very good witness for the prosecution -- I think that`s what you meant to say.
Jon Leiberman, again, jump in.
JON LEIBERMAN, HLN CONTRIBUTOR: Not to mention that the prosecution also showed today that Jodi Arias tried to clean up the crime scene and in fact she tried to use water to wipe the blood off of many of the different spots in the house where they found blood. That is so telling as well.
And another thing, Jane, after she meets this other new love interest we now know, she also went to the memorial service for Travis and on her MySpace page, she created a whole photo album quote, "In loving memory of Travis". All of that is coming out now as well.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Eric Schwartzreich, you`re a criminal defense attorney. Do you see any chance whatsoever that she could successfully use the self-defense argument. Yes or no because if it`s no we don`t need to go any further.
ERIC SCHWARTZREICH, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: She has a very difficult hurdle Jane but yes, absolutely. It is a 12-round fight as you said or alluded to. The trial is never over. She`s going to have to take the stand. In a criminal case criminal defendants do not have to go on the stand to testify, it`s the Fifth Amendment. But if you`re asserting affirmative defense, if you`re asserting self-defense, you`ve got to look those jurors in the eyes and you have tell them why this happened and what you did. What you did and why you did it. The problem for Arias, big problem, is she spun all these tales. Defendants shouldn`t be speaking -- loose lips, they sink ships. In criminal cases they say the whole navy -- the defense is sunk.
And I know it sounds funny.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: She`s not just speaking, she`s singing. She`s singing. She`s giving interviews. That`s why she can`t take the stand. Listen, everybody says she`s going to take the stand.
Jon Leiberman, I don`t believe she is going to take the stand because they would cross-examine her about all her lies.
SCHWARTZREICH: Jane, she has to. She has to.
LEIBERMAN: I believe more than anything in this world, she wants to take the stand.
SCHWARTZREICH: I agree.
LEIBERMAN: This woman, if you look at her pattern of behavior, she truly believes that she can lie her way through anything and people will believe her lies so. So I agree that in order to show self-defense, she will have to testify because she needs to make that emotional plea to one juror that she can be believed. But she will get ripped apart on cross- examination --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Exactly.
LEIBERMAN: -- and I`ll bet her attorneys are telling her, do not testify.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s why I don`t expect her to take the stand. Just like everybody said Casey Anthony is going to take the stand because she`s a narcissist and she loves to see her name in the papers and on television. She didn`t take the stand. I don`t think Jodi Arias is going to take the stand either but we`ll see. Maybe she will. She`s very hard to predict.
On the other side of the break, we`re going to introduce you to a woman who was involved in one of the most -- she`s a victim of the most high profile longest-running stalking case in U.S. history. Stay right there.
BURNS: From the second we woke up we were kissing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And what else happened?
BURNS: She got on top of me, pretty aggressively and we were kissing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When she got on top of you pretty aggressively, where was her genital area compared to yours?
BURNS: She was right on top of me.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tomorrow on this show, an exclusive guest. I will talk to Travis Alexander`s mentor, a man who has been described as a father figure to Travis Alexander. We`re going to get insights into this victim. Don`t miss it tomorrow, 7:00 p.m. And of course, much more on the Jodi Arias trial tomorrow and in just a minute; we`ve got some more for you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It says, "Hey there, handsome. This is a test."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Her saying to you, "Hey hottie-biscotti, what`s new?"
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, she`s a real flirt this one. And those are some of the e-mails she sent not to Travis Alexander -- to another guy. A guy she ended up fooling around with the day after -- maybe even less than a day after -- she killed Travis Alexander.
Quickly to the phone calls -- before we get to our next guest, an extraordinary guest.
Christine, North Carolina, your question or thought?
CHRISTINE, NORTH CAROLINA (via telephone): Yes, Jane, like I always tell you I love you, Rico and God bless your mother.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you.
CHRISTINE: I`m learning more and more because I`m into this trial Jane. So I`ll probably be calling you a few more times.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok.
CHRISTINE: I noticed today when the forensic lady got up talking about all the blood. There was a lot of blood that was very low to the ground and if it was that low to the ground, then he had to be on the ground.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, wow.
CHRISTINE: There was no way that he was attacking her, none, because the blood would not have been that low.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Shanna Hogan, journalist and author of "Picture Perfect" that`s a very, very good observation by Christine in North Carolina.
HOGAN: Not only were the blood droplets really low and there were signs that the knife was plunged maybe and that there`s blood droplets flicked at like six inches above the wall, there`s also drag marks that are on the base boards that kind of show that maybe his body was dragged through that entire bathroom hallway. And that left a void in the blood path. So there`s definitely signs that he was attacked and at least some of the wounds were delivered very low in the bathroom. So that was a very good point.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to go to our next guest Sherry Meinberg, who is an advocate for stalking and she is the survivor of one of the most infamous, perhaps the most infamous stalking case in U.S. history. I understand, Sherry, first of all thank you for joining us and having the courage to speak out because this is something that happens to so many women and as we see in this tragic case to men too.
This victim, Travis Alexander who was allegedly stalked by Jodi, was stabbed 29 times. Your story, you were stalked by your ex-husband -- correct me if I`m wrong -- and in the course of trying to get to you, he then, instead abducts another woman, a random stranger and stabs her how many times?
SHERRY MEINBERG, STALKING VICTIM: 27 times.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: 27 times. Tell me.
MEINBERG: Not only that, he had grabbed her off of a corner, took her home, beat her up, took a beer bottle, cracked it in half, gouged out her stomach, then he rapes her and then he stabbed her 27 times. So I`m very happy that he couldn`t find me at that point.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So he was looking for you, couldn`t find you and he just says, we`ll, this person is available, I`m going to grab this victim that I don`t even know and attack them.
MEINBERG: Right.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Do you see commonalities given that Travis Alexander was stabbed 29 times -- at first we thought it was 27 and the victim that could have been you but wasn`t, thank God, you`re here, was stabbed 27 times. Do you see that and other commonalities between these two cases?
MEINBERG: Yes, that was my first thought and also, they believed so strongly that they can have everybody believe their stories and they have told stories and told lies for so many years that people have believed that I think this is one of her problems. She keeps changing her story but everybody is aware now that she`s told too many and they`re not believing her.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: It must give you a chill when you see this case play out. I could imagine it must send a chill down your spine to thing "Oh, my god, it`s happened again."
MEINBERG: Yes. I was reading some of the articles about your show and what`s going on, and my stomach started shaking so it was just like I was back with Chuck. So there are a lot of similarities.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I`m glad that you`re here, you`re ok, and take a deep breath and it`s going to be all right, you are safe.
MEINBERG: Thank you.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: On the other side of the break, is there a connection between pathological lying and violence? Some might think so.
ARIAS: I wouldn`t use obsession. Travis was a wonderful person, but he was also very persuasive and he was hard to say no to. He wouldn`t allow me to not answer his text message. If I didn`t respond, he would keep calling and calling until I did.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: This case is proving one thing at least overwhelmingly beyond a reasonable doubt. This woman is definitely a pathological liar. Just as Casey Anthony was a pathological liar but, you know, one of the jurors said the Casey Anthony case said that you didn`t charge her so much with lying as you charged her with murder. Is lying sort of a distraction?
BURNS: She had two small bandages it seems like on one of her fingers, a couple of her fingers.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did she tell you about those cuts?
BURNS: She worked at Margaritaville, and I guess she broke a glass.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is there a business establishment, a bar, a restaurant by the name of Margaritaville?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So there is no restaurant by the name of Margaritaville?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, sir.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Check one more lie by Jodi Arias. Shades of Casey Anthony who lied, of course, about where she worked, Universal Studios. She didn`t. The list goes on and on.
Scott Peterson who killed his pregnant wife he lied like a master. Even called his mistress pretending to be in Paris, France, at the Eiffel Tower when he was at a vigil for his supposedly missing wife, the one he killed.
Darren Kavinoky, host of "Deadly Sins", which premieres on Investigation Discovery Saturday night at 9:00, is there a connection between liars and violence?
DARREN KAVINOKY, HOST, "DEADLY SINS": Well, first Jane, just to clarify, it`s the premiere of Season 2 this Saturday night on Investigation Discovery.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Congrats.
KAVINOKY: Thank you. As far as this connection with lying, the prosecution, of course, is going to try and use every single one of those lies to demonstrate consciousness of guilt. It`s just like fleeing the scene, anything that you might do after the fact that to throw investigators off the trail, they`re going to argue that that is consciousness of guilt.
But just wait for the spoiler alert that when we get into the defense case, they`re going to need to put the victim on trial, and they`re going to have to put on somebody that can try and explain away these lies as being the manifestation of some kind of a battered person syndrome. That somehow Travis was such a bad guy that he had her under this mind control and that has to be the reason to explain not only her lies but obviously this whole self-defense path that now the defense is committed to taking.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Selin Darkalstanian, senior producer on the scene in Arizona, the prosecution better make sure they don`t make the mistake that the Casey Anthony prosecution did of really focusing so much on her lies that basically, yes, she was convicted of lying. That`s a problem.
SELIN DARKALSTANIAN, HLN PRODUCER: Yes, I mean they`re playing her phone conversations in court. And she`s -- you can hear her and she`s believing her lies like she`s actually saying it and she believes it. And the prosecutor is not even asking her another question and she`s delivering another lie and another lie. It`s almost like she`s really into it. She`s believing her story as it`s happening.
Yes, the prosecution needs to bring it right back to the photos, the bloody photos, the facts in the case. And I think they are doing that. They`re weaving in her lies as they`re showing you the evidence of the case. They`re weaving into her lies.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Michelle Ward, is there a connection between pathological liars and a propensity to violence?
MICHELLE WARD, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, you mentioned Scott Peterson and Casey Anthony and now Jodi Arias. They`re all psychopaths. Come on. I mean that`s what they are. Not all psychopaths kill people, these psychopaths did. You`re just seeing the lying behavior, which is one of the hallmarks of psychopathy. You also have the lack of guilt, no remorse. They have no conscience. That`s what we`re seeing here.
Yes, liars aren`t necessarily murders but psychopaths are always liars.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well put.
More on the other side.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was certainly displaying evidence of borderline personality disorder, wildly emotionally unstable, inability to maintain this relationship and she tied a lot of her identity up to Travis. I mean she became a Mormon to try to be somebody he could marry and she was really controlling. I mean, from what I`ve read, she was trying to control all aspects of his life.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My examination did show that the jugular vein and the carotid artery on the right side were both cut.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How deep is this wound?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It goes all the way back to the spine. So it`s three inches, four inches.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow, this case has already gotten a little crazy; the defense asking for a mistrial today saying, oh, the medical examiner and the lead detective can`t get their stories straight. It was denied, but you`ve got to wonder and I`m going to bring in my three expert panelists here to debate this.
If this is going to be a Casey Anthony where the prosecution focuses so much on Jodi Alexander`s lies that the jury is left with the impression, wow, she`s a pathological liar but I can`t necessarily say for sure she didn`t kill him in self-defense, that she`s a murderess. Starting with Eric.
SCHWARTZREICH: Jane, she`s beautiful, she`s smart, she`s attractive. She doesn`t look like that dark, deep, dangerous place like a murderer. It`s a good thing for the defense.
The problem is that she is spinning so many tales and the courtroom and her wardrobe changes, I mean she`s had more wardrobe changes than Vanna White. The courtroom is supposed to be staged -- it`s supposed to be staged but this looks staged. The bottom line is, are they going to believe because she`s lying and we saw Casey Anthony get the acquittal, does that mean that she`s a murderer.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Got it.
SCHWARTZREICH: Does that mean the death penalty should apply here? I don`t think she gets the death penalty in this case.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Leiberman?
LEIBERMAN: Completely different case than Casey Anthony. This case has so much physical evidence, the Anthony case did not. This you have the defendant on tape lying. It`s actually documented.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, we`re going to having to see. I remember, you know, watching that Casey Anthony case. And say focus not on the lies but on the killing.
Tomorrow, an exclusive guest, Travis Alexander`s mentor. Join us.
" Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Moynihan
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Re: Travis Alexander of Mesa, AZ Found Murdered June 2008-Jodi Arias on Trial
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January 13, 2013, 10:26:33 PM »
Jodi Arias Trial Day 5
Aired January 10, 2013 - 20:00 ET
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, Mesa, Arizona. They meet up on a trip for work in Vegas and fall hard. But when the flame burns out and they break up, she then moves 300 miles to get back together, to pursue him, even converting to Mormonism to get her man. But then 30-year-old Travis Alexander found slumped dead in the shower of his five-bedroom home, shot, stabbed 29 times, violence so brutal it resembles a mob hit.
Now we learn just hours after Arias stabs her 30-year-old lover, Travis Alexander, to death in the shower, Arias has sex contact with a brand-new boyfriend, egging the new boyfriend on sexually, even climbing up on top of him as if nothing`s wrong, and the whole time Travis Alexander`s body decomposing in a damp shower stall.
Bombshell tonight. Arias`s elaborate web of lies exposed in court. The blonde-turned-brunette sits demurely during her murder one trial, decked out in a new forest green ensemble as it`s revealed she lies about everything, from her job to her boyfriends to her religion, her alibi, even the restaurants where she eats and works. And now they want to us believe her in court?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When did you first find out what happened?
JODI ARIAS, CHARGED WITH MURDER: Dan called me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dan who?
ARIAS: Dan Freeman. I`m sorry. (INAUDIBLE) you`re not making the trip up there. And he`s, like, yes, I think you`re going to have to. And then he`s, like, yes (INAUDIBLE) about Travis. And I was, like, What? You know, like, that`s never good. But I didn`t think anything at first (INAUDIBLE) I was totally shocked. I just kept thinking maybe there`s a mistake.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s dead. He`s in his bedroom, in the shower.
911 OPERATOR: OK. How did this happen? Do you have any idea?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I felt so helpless because I wasn`t there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She had two small bandages on a couple of her fingers. She told me she worked at Margaritaville, she broke a glass and cut her finger.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In Yreka, is there a business establishment, a bar, a restaurant by the name of Margaritaville?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) found his camera, and you know, it`s pretty much ruined and we don`t know why. We have no idea why somebody would, you know, destroy his camera. And...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh.
ARIAS: I just felt totally helpless.
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight. Jodi Arias`s elaborate web off lies exposed in court. The blonde-turned-brunette sits there in court demurely in her murder one trial today, decked out in a new forest green ensemble as it is revealed she just lies about everything, from her job, her alibi, her past relationships, her boyfriends, even the restaurant where she works, where she eats, even getting lost on the freeway. Everything, every detail of her life, she lies about it.
You don`t think she would lie to the jury to save her own skin? If she will lie about working at Margaritaville versus Casa Ramos, who cares? Why would she lie about that?
Bombshells in the courtroom today. Straight out to Bonnie Druker, our team member at the courthouse. Bonnie, what happened in court?
BONNIE DRUKER, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Nancy, Margaritaville- That`s how the day started off. Now, remember Margaritaville is very crucial because she told Ryan Burns that she had to get back to Yreka to work at Margaritaville as a bartender. Remember, she told -- she told Ryan Burns that she cut her hand because a glass at Margaritaville fell on her hand.
As you mentioned, she actually worked as Casa Ramos. So you know, it`s just really, really hard to take anything that she says seriously. It`s almost like -- wow, unbelievable, Nancy, just watching her sitting there calmly lie after lie after lie after lie after lie.
GRACE: You know who this reminds me of? Out to you Mike Walker, senior editor with "The National Enquirer." He was onto this story before it ever went to a court. I mean, this reminds me so much of tot mom and Scott Peterson, Mike, because they all lied about their jobs. They lied about their alibis. They lied about the mode of death of the victim. They lied about where they were.
They all gave national interviews, interviews to the press, interviews to other people, comments. They all changed their stories at some point or another. They all even dyed their hair, Mike Walker, let`s see, from dark to blond to dark again, which is an eerie comparison.
And I know. I don`t have to go to the lawyers, Marla Chicotsky, Alan Ripka to go, Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, just because they lie doesn`t make them a murderer. You know what? I agree with that. I`m going to give you that, Mike Walker. But it goes to credibility. It all goes to credibility, Mike.
MIKE WALKER, "NATIONAL ENQUIRER" (via telephone): Well, it does, indeed. And every -- as you put it, every word out of this woman`s mouth seems to be a lie. She even lies when there`s no reason to lie -- all of the stuff about, you know, the going to the guy`s house right after, you know, but Oh, no, I killed him in self-defense. Well, if you did that, weren`t you upset? Would you go to bed with a guy right after you killed somebody, even if it was in self-defense? I mean, you would drive, you know, up to Utah from the crime scene in Arizona?
None of it makes any sense. And I only want to ask you one thing. What do you make of a camera in a washing machine that has not come up anywhere that has pictures of the guy alive in a shower, and then a picture of him dead? Who threw that camera into a washing machine and for what reason?
GRACE: Well, as a matter of fact, Jodi Arias is caught on tape talking about -- with police, about that camera. Hey, Liz, get me that sound of her when they first confront her about the fact that that digital camera was bought and what she knows about it.
Hold on just a moment, Liz. Thank you. Before I play that, I want to go to a special guest joining us tonight, and he is taking your calls. This is a close friend, a former roommate of the murder victim, Travis Alexander. He actually drove Jodi Arias, not realizing he was driving a murderer propped up there in the front seat with him, to the police station for the very first time. He also went to visit her behind bars.
Joining me and taking your calls, which I find significant -- not afraid to answer questions, nothing to hide. Aaron Dewey is with me. Aaron, thank you for being with us.
AARON DEWEY, FRIEND AND FORMER ROOMMATE OF TRAVIS ALEXANDER: Thanks for having me, Nancy.
GRACE: Aaron, I`m extremely curious about what happened when you drove Jodi Arias to the police station the first time she went there. First of all, how did she end up in your car? Why were you driving her to the police station?
DEWEY: Well, you know, I lived with Travis the whole time that he and Jodi were dating, and so I knew her pretty well, actually considered her a friend. And so when she had come back to Arizona from California for his memorial service, I spent a lot of time with her that weekend.
As we were talking, she knew at that point that she was at least a person of interest in the case. And so she thought that it would help to clear her name if she went down to the police station, gave a statement, gave her fingerprints voluntarily. She thought that would all help her out -- no regard to what happened to Travis there.
And so you know, being here without transportation, she asked me if I could help her out with that, and so I took her down to the police station and sat while she gave her statement.
GRACE: Aaron, I`m very surprised she didn`t hit on you.
DEWEY: I`m sorry?
GRACE: I mean, you`re a good-looking young guy. You`re a good- looking young guy. Are you Mormon, too?
DEWEY: Yes, I am.
GRACE: Well, that seems to be her specialty. All right, let me just put that on a shelf and I`ll revisit that later. But back to the car ride to the police station. What happened?
DEWEY: You know, it`s so long ago, I don`t remember a lot. But you know, I do remember from that weekend having conversations where she was saying, you know, It`s so sad. He meant so much to me. Why would anybody want to do this to somebody that`s as great as Travis?
And you know, in the moment, that made perfect sense. There was nothing about those conversations that was in the least bit alarming to me. In hindsight, knowing what she did and how she was involved, it`s absolutely sickening.
GRACE: Aaron, what was her demeanor? Everyone, with me is Travis`s former roommate, Aaron Dewey. He also gave a ride to Jodi Arias to the police station.
What was her demeanor? And did you have any qualms about driving a murder person of interest in your car with you?
DEWEY: You know, at the time, I didn`t believe that she was involved, you know? I didn`t think that Jodi was capable of doing something like this, and let alone to someone like Travis, who she claimed to be very much in love with. So at the time, you know, there was no fear for my safety. I was doing something to help out a friend.
But looking back, it`s pretty scary to know how close she was to me after what she had done just a few days before.
GRACE: Aaron, you told me that you lived with Travis during the time he dated Jodi. What was that relationship like? What did you observe, if anything?
ARIAS: You know, when they first met, Travis was on cloud nine. Here was a very attractive young lady that he had met at that convention in Las Vegas. They shared a lot of similar interests, some similar passions, a real drive and ambition in life. He thought he had found the one.
And at the beginning of the relationship, everything seemed like it was going to go perfectly and possibly go all the way. Things deteriorated quickly. There were lots of trust issues. And she...
GRACE: Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! Whoa!
DEWEY: ... turned out to be...
GRACE: Wa-wait! Wa-wait!
DEWEY: ... not the person that he thought.
GRACE: Right there. Right there, Aaron. Let`s not put perfume on the pig. What do you mean by there were a lot of trust issues?
DEWEY: Well, you know, she`s admitted in some of her statements that she would go through his e-mails, his social media accounts, his text messages. There was a time when they were on vacation together, and he was asleep or in the shower and a text message came in from another girl, and she responded to that girl as if she was Travis, telling her how happy that he was to be with her and she`s the best thing that ever happened, in an attempt to scare this girl away from Travis.
GRACE: Wait. This is new to me.
DEWEY: And you know...
GRACE: Hold on!
DEWEY: ... talking about the web of lies.
GRACE: Wait. Wait. So Travis Alexander`s taking a shower, prophetically, and she`s looking at all of his texts, and a text comes in from another woman. And she starts texting back and forth with the woman as if she`s Travis Alexander?
DEWEY: That`s correct.
GRACE: OK. That`s crazy.
DEWEY: Absolutely. I agree.
GRACE: What, may I ask, was she texting this woman?
DEWEY: These are the kinds of things she would do.
GRACE: What was she saying, Get away from him, you big tramp? What was she saying?
DEWEY: Oh, no, no. She was parading as if she was Travis. So you know, I`m having a great time out here. I`m so happy to be with Jodi. She`s such a wonderful girl -- anything to make this girl believe that Travis was more interested in Jodi than he was in her, which was not the case.
GRACE: Let me ask you this. You take her to the police station. Did you go in with her?
DEWEY: Uh-huh.
GRACE: You went in with her? What happened inside?
DEWEY: I did. I had to sit down in the waiting room while she went up with the detectives to give her prints and give her statement. So I don`t know what transpired during that interview.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A digital camera that was found inside of the washing machine.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On the memory card, pictures of Travis seconds before he was killed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We found this camera, and you know, it`s pretty much ruined, and we didn`t know why.
ARIAS: Oh.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And after the camera was dropped, a shot of Jodi Arias dragging his bloody body.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re just dumbfounded. We have no idea why somebody would, you know, destroy his camera and...
ARIAS: Oh.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Those stains are all from about 12 inches and down. The blood source was actually low, and those blood stains simply flew to the side and...
GRACE: Another bombshell day in the courtroom, Jodi Arias on trial for the horrific murder of her Mormon lover, Travis Alexander. And with me -- not only do we have, caught on tape, Jodi Arias in one of her police interviews, but also the young man who took her to the police station, who drove her there at her request.
And following up on that scenario you just told me about, Aaron Dewey, she was texting back and forth with her next would-be boyfriend, Ryan Burns, and she said -- was describing the incident you`re describing, and says that she wrote to the girl, Time to go cuddle with Jodi. Good night.
Now, if that wouldn`t scare away a potential girlfriend, I don`t know what would.
DEWEY: Right.
GRACE: All right, Aaron Dewey, here taking your calls. But right now, I want to listen to Jodi in her own words caught on tape.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tell me if you or when you had contact with him, or the last time you talked to him?
ARIAS: Yes, I think -- I know that I talked to him early Monday morning, which was -- I was just up late Sunday night, for example. And I probably talked to him -- it may have been a good 45 minutes that morning.
And we were just talking about how he lived. He had conversation with another person about (INAUDIBLE) and they were -- and it was really a conversation, and he was just talking a lot about what was said there. And I think we probably talked until about 4:00 in the morning, I think.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wow.
ARIAS: Yes, we were -- he was a night owl. I`m a night owl. And it wasn`t a really long conversation. Like, we`ve had conversations that have lasted hours and hours, but this one was probably only about -- I want to say 45 minutes. It may have been longer.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And when did you guys actually start dating.
ARIAS: Not for a while. We met in September. The following weekend, he invited me to church. And the following Wednesday of that Sunday, he gave me a copy of The Book of Mormon. I started reading it. I got baptized November 26th.
We would talk a lot and hang out a lot. And we kind of had, like, a thing, and there was definitely an attraction and an interest, but we weren`t officially dating until about February of 2007, around his birthday. I think a string of events sort of pushed that together. Travis has kind of a commitment phobia, I guess you could say.
GRACE: She thinks he has a commitment phobia? I guess so. He doesn`t want to be engaged to an axe murderer, bottom line.
We are taking your calls. Out to the lines. Jeannie in Tennessee. Hi, Jeannie. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. How are you today?
GRACE: I`m good, dear.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh. I adore you so much and what you stand for.
GRACE: Thank you. Thank you very much.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Lord knows you have a special -- Lord knows you have a special place in heaven, my friend.
GRACE: You know what? Your mouth to God`s ear, Jeannie. What`s your question, my love?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Anyway, my question is -- I don`t quite get it. She claims it was self-defense, was her last story or lie or whatever you want to call it. If she was in another state, how was she in danger?
GRACE: You know what? I`m going to throw that to the defense attorneys, Jeannie in Tennessee. Unleash the lawyers, Alan Ripka, New York, Marla Chicotsky, Miami. All right, Marla, so she`s claiming that she was kind of under his Svengali control, that she was his sex slave, that he verbally and emotionally abused her.
So why does she drive on one occasion 300 miles and on another occasion over 1,000 miles to get back to him? She`s the one pursuing him, Marla.
MARLA CHICOTSKY, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, we don`t know if that`s exactly true, Nancy. She could be...
GRACE: Why do you say that?
CHICOTSKY: ... getting text messages -- she could be getting text messages, e-mails. Sometimes in relationships, a woman can get manipulated by the man.
GRACE: Put her up, please!
CHICOTSKY: We don`t know, unfortunately, his side of the story.
GRACE: Marla?
CHICOTSKY: Yes?
GRACE: Marla, that`s not what I said. I said on one occasion, she drove 300 miles after the breakup. On another occasion, she drove 1,000 miles to get back to Travis Alexander. That`s what I said. I did not mention text messages or phone calls.
If he was abusing her and she wanted to get out from his sexual control, then why did she drive 1,000 miles to just get slung up with him? Could you tell me that? That doesn`t sound like an abusive relationship, Alan Ripka.
ALAN RIPKA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, you haven`t heard, Nancy, of women who in abusive relationships want the security of the person they`re with, the guy who puts the spell on the woman? Yes, she may have gone back to him because she believed she wanted to be with him. It doesn`t mean it`s healthy.
GRACE: Actually, Alan Ripka, having worked at the battered women`s center for 10 years as a volunteer -- actually, no. I think in the true sense -- I`m going to go to Bethany Marshall on this. She`s the shrink expert joining me out of LA.
Bethany, in a true battered women syndrome case, the battered woman wants to get away, but she`s afraid to get away. And she yearns for a different life but is brainwashed to think she can`t have a different life. Here this woman got away. She moved 1,000 miles away.
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: And she should have gotten a support system and stayed there. I would say this is not battered wife syndrome because I think the fact is that she went back to him like a moth to the flame, to punish him for the rejection.
GRACE: We are taking your calls. We are there at the courthouse.
I want to go back to Aaron Dewey, close friend, former roommate of Travis Alexander, joining us tonight. You take her to the police station. You`re hearing her caught on tape as she tells the cops all this BS. And I am using your quote. You said, I took her to the police station to give her first BS -- except you did not use the initials -- statement to police.
Now, let me ask you this. As you saw the relationship begin to degenerate, what did you observe about Arias?
DEWEY: Nothing -- nothing super out of the ordinary, you know, when she would be there at the home because she still frequented the house regularly, even after they broke up, a little bit more distant, maybe not quite as bubbly and outgoing as she usually was, but nothing that seemed too out of the ordinary.
GRACE: To Mike Walker, senior editor at "National Enquirer." We know a completely different side of Jodi Arias, a side that was absolutely incensed, consumed with rage that she had sex with a guy all day long and all night long, and he was still going to take another woman to Cancun.
WALKER: That`s right. And the lady who said a moth to a flame to punish him for the rejection -- this is the whole core of this woman. She`s been vindictive. She`s described as a stalker. Even the way she texted back the other woman saying, Hi, I`m Travis and I`m going to go sleep with Jodi now. She`s got a fierce flame burning inside her. She wants to punish.
ARIAS: But what bothered me was there were -- not only were some flirtations, like, which I expected and which bothered me, but it wasn`t necessarily a crime. But there were plenty of -- there were, like, plans, like, things like, Well, where do you want to meet? Oh, I don`t know. Wherever the best place -- wherever the best place is for us to make out is.
I was, like, Oh, my gosh. You know, we had been dating for a few months at this point, and he always said, Well, we`re not dating anybody else. And to him, that was, I think, reasonable enough because I think in his mind, if he was making out with other girls but he wasn`t dating them, it was OK.
And the only reason I think that`s true is because of what we continued to do as he was dating Lisa, and I didn`t realize that, either. So I confronted him about it. Actually, I didn`t confront him at first. I should have been an adult about it and confronted him, but I held it in for a few weeks. And then it all came out. That`s when we broke up. And so I just realized that I don`t -- I didn`t feel like I could trust him fully to be monogamous and I don`t think that he could trust me fully to not get back in his phone some day. And then try to find something out.
GRACE: So she didn`t trust him. Hmm. She admits she`s slashed him from ear to ear. Gee, I wonder why he didn`t want to marry her.
We are live, out at the courthouse there in Phoenix, Arizona, and taking your calls. With me right now Beth Karas, straight out of the courtroom. Beth, legal correspondent, "In Session".
Whoa, what a day, but first, a motion for a mistrial. The defense tries to get the case thrown out.
What happened, Beth?
BETH KARAS, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, IN SESSION: Well, they lost the motion. That`s the bottom line. But they said it`s because there was contrary testimony from the lead detective at a hearing a couple of years ago regarding the aggravating factor of cruelty that would make this case a death case if the jury finds first degree. And they`re saying that the sequence of shots -- I mean fatal wounds testified to in 2009 at this hearing is different from what the testimony was at the trial.
At the hearing, the testimony and the judge found was that the shot to the head was first, but it didn`t render Travis Alexander unconscious. He could still fight. And there was a finding of probable cause of cruelty. That`s the aggravating factor.
Well, this judge said, look, OK. Now the testimony is the stab wound to the heart was the first fatal wound that didn`t render him unconscious. He was able to keep fighting. He had defensive wounds and the shot came later. I still find it was cruel. So I`m denying your motion and besides, it`s kind of late for you to say that the theory of the sequence changed.
GRACE: Well, yes, because, Beth Karas, it`s my understanding that the defense interviewed the medical examiner, I believe Dr. Horn, over a year ago or around a year ago? So they went through the sequence with him then regardless of what the police officer said and another thing, Beth, I`m not -- maybe I just can`t get my mind around the argument. They`re saying that it`s more cruel to, what, stab somebody, then shoot them as supposed to shooting them, then stabbing them? Does it really matter? You say tomato, I say tomato?
KARAS: Well, basically yes. And the judge said wait a second. He`s still alive for all of those stab wounds and defensive wounds or he wouldn`t have bled so much. His heart was still beating. So whether he was shot first or stabbed in the heart first because there were three major fatal wounds, stab to the heart, gunshot to the head and slashed across the throat.
And the testimony at the trial was the gunshot had to come later because it went through his brain. The slash of the throat had to come later because he was dead within seconds after that. The stab to the heart was the first wound and that`s why he fought because it didn`t kill him right away.
GRACE: Well, to me, it`s slicing hairs. Which injury -- what I care about, Beth, is the sequence of events as to how he was killed. I think stabbing somebody 29 times, shooting them in the face, chipping their head, their skull with a knife, cutting them ear to ear, to me it`s incredibly heinous regardless of which wound is first.
Beth Karas, with us just coming straight out of the courtroom.
Beth, did she hide behind her hair like Cousin It all day today the way she did yesterday?
KARAS: Well, she did. She went when the blood spatter photos were shown again and the description was delivered by the blood spatter expert about the -- how many different events there were and how Travis Alexander was down on the ground during this event and then there would have been another event of a stabbing or something that caused more spatter.
He was standing at the sink, he was spitting blood, dripping blood. And then staggered down the hall. So she was hiding her face behind her hair as well as glasses. But you know what, when that mistrial motion occurred and the jury was gone, she sat up straight and she was not wearing her glasses.
GRACE: Did she wear glasses before this trial, Beth, or is that an acquired look?
KARAS: No, actually, I saw her once at the jail about a little over a year ago when I went to interview her and her former lawyer pulled the plug on the interview just as I was about to do it, and when she came out, she was wearing dark rimmed big, big glasses that were dark rimmed. I didn`t recognize her at first because of the glasses. So she did wear them at the jail.
So yes, maybe she has an option to wear them because she wasn`t wearing them just now on the courtroom for the mistrial motion but in front of the jury, she`s now wearing glasses.
GRACE: Alexis Tereszcuk, senior reporter, radaronline.com, I guarantee that none of these men ever saw her wearing glasses.
ALEXIS TERESZCUK, REPORTER, RADAROLINE.COM: Absolutely not. You`re right. There are no photos of her with any of the guys ever wearing glasses. And in fact, she had her very, very platinum blonde hair. Much more of a bombshell look than what she has now which is this mousey brown hair and this really just plain green shirt that she had on today. It`s a completely different look than she`s ever had in years and years.
GRACE: Joining me right now is a renowned forensic scientist. We all know Dr. Henry Lee, chair professor of forensic science, University of New Haven.
Dr. Lee, thank you so much for being with us.
You`re most welcome, Nancy.
GRACE: Dr. Lee, you have been a star witness in some of the most high-profile cases in this country. I can`t say that I`ve always agreed with you. But I have always respected your opinion. I`d like to know what you think about the blood evidence at the scene, specifically the fact -- and Beth will correct me if I`m wrong, I hope, that there was blood spatter underneath the scales in the bathroom and underneath the bathroom rug.
It reminds me of a case I had many, many years ago where it was a suicide or so it was said. But I happened to notice that there was blood spatter under the pillowcase where the deceased was lying when she committed suicide. That`s impossible. All right? So why is there blood spatter under the bathroom rug and under the bathroom scales?
DR. HENRY LEE, CHAIR PROFESSOR OF FORENSIC SCIENCE, UNIVERSITY OF NEW HAVEN: Well, in the bathroom, they probably have couple of thousands of bloodstain, blood spatter. Especially on the floor and the sink. And the floor area basically if you drip in the blood, the blood may bounce, got underneath the scale. As far as the mat, which means could be because the testimony say more likely below which could be tried to clean up, put the mat on top of it. So subsequently soak into the mat.
The most important thing, Nancy, you probably notice about 500 or more blood spatter on the sink area. Those are medium velocity blood spatter which suggests have to have certain force. Could be the slow/through because that cover about two to 10 inches in area. Which means a lot of blood gushing out at that point of attack.
Another very interesting thing which did not mention in your show, I don`t know mentioned in the trial or not because I heard, watch your show, a lot of argument about what`s the sequence, shot first or stabbing first. If you remember look at the crime scene photo have a casing on top of the bloodstain. And that`s on the bathroom floor, too, which suggests a deposit on the floor, subsequently a casing ejected on top of the bloodstain.
GRACE: Man, what a day in court today.
Everybody, we are taking your calls, but I want you to hear Jodi Arias in her own words.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I mean obviously, you guys dated before.
ARIAS: Yes, we dated.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were kind of just still really good friends, but not, you know, romantically seeing each other anymore.
ARIAS: Not exactly. We broke up last -- yes. I would say there was certainly a romantic side to it, you could say, or an intimate side to it, but we weren`t exactly on the path to marriage or anything like that, and we both knew that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t want to make this unpleasant or anything, but I mean, was it still a sexual relationship going on after that?
ARIAS: Yes, there was.
Do you remember when he bought that camera?
ARIAS: April maybe? I know it was after I moved. It could have been in May.
ARIAS: Could have been in May. I know it was after I moved up here because I was here while I was on the phone with him purchasing it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You never got to see the camera then or anything?
ARIAS: No, and I`m trying to remember, maybe.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, the reason I`m asking is because we found this camera, and you know, it`s pretty much ruined and we didn`t know why.
ARIAS: Oh.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can`t, you know, discuss why but, you know, or how it`s ruined but we were just -- it`s -- we`re just dumbfounded. We have no idea why somebody would, you know, destroy his camera. And I wonder if you can describe it to me but obviously you haven`t seen it, you never touched, never seen it so.
ARIAS: No. I think -- I`m thinking there`s a picture of him on Facebook where he took a picture of himself in the mirror.
ARIAS: And I think that`s his camera. So I mean, I can`t tell what it is, though, the picture isn`t really sharp and it`s a small resolution. But there`s a picture of him, profile picture on Facebook.
GRACE: So they`re caught on tape. We learned two major things. Number one, we learned that she was taken aback that she they had found that digicam. Oh, oh, those are her responses and number two, that she knew she was just a booty call. That the relationship was over. They just got together for sex and she spends a whole day, Mike Walker, having sex with him. She gets there about 3:00 in the morning and they`re down and dirty until the clock goes around and around and around. They`re finally taking a shower and he says, no, I`m not going to call off my trip to Cancun with another woman. Boom. That`s that, Mike.
MIKE WALKER, SENIOR EDITOR, NATIONAL ESQUIRE: Yes, that was that. And remember, this is a real black widow. I mean, remember, let`s not forget that this woman even if -- even if you kill someone in self-defense, Nancy, if you do that innocently, you`re ripped up inside emotionally. You know, affected. And suddenly, after this murder, she flies up to or drives up to Utah and she`s in bed with this guy who said she acted perfectly normal. They were lovey, dovey, they had sexual contact.
It`s just astounding that this woman is even walking around. I mean, I can`t even -- I can`t even tell you the last time I saw a female that was this scary.
GRACE: To Aaron Dewey, everyone, joining us tonight at the courthouse and taking your calls. Very close friend of Travis Alexander, actually gave Jodi Arias a ride the first time she went to go clear her name with police. You`re hearing some of those tapes, caught on tape right now.
You know, Aaron, you didn`t just give her a ride. You also went to visit her behind bars on one occasion. What happened?
AARON DEWEY, CLOSE FRIEND OF MURDERED TRAVIS ALEXANDER: That`s correct. It was pretty, pretty much a nonevent. I was home alone one year on Christmas. Decided with the new year coming up I needed to make my peace with her. By this time I knew enough evidence against her that she was definitely involved, and so I wanted to see what she had to say. Went down to the -- to the jailhouse, spent, you know, maybe only about 15 minutes with her, and probably the most nonchalant conversation I`ve ever had with Jodi. Life is good, no big deal that I`m behind bars for murder. How is this person? I haven`t talked to them in forever.
Not the type of conversation that you would expect to have someone that is carrying the guilt of slicing and dicing their ex-boyfriend.
GRACE: Now I find that so curious. Curious, indeed.
To you, Dr. Bethany Marshal, she`s sitting there carrying on with Aaron Dewey who`s one of the best friends of the man she murdered. And she`s talking like, yes, I`m not in jail right now. Everything`s fine. Hey, have you seen so and so? What`s happening? It`s like hello? Are those handcuffs on yet? Is that a glass wall between us?
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST, AUTHOR OF "DEALBREAKERS": She did so many things similar to Casey Anthony. Can you hear it, like in that police interview, she throws in so many extraneous details that are not even important. Like the grainy picture, the resolution of the camera, that it was on Facebook. Detail, detail, detail just to manipulate the police.
The idea that she was so nonchalant to this friend in jail, this is like Casey Anthony saying oh, yes, I`m going to help -- I`m going to start a foundation to help children who are missing, lost or exploited. So all this stuff. The third thing that stands out to me is the use of sexuality. Fourteen hours of sex? I mean, really? To convince him to not go to Cancun?
RYAN BURNS, JODI ARIAS EX-BOYFRIEND: She told me she worked at Margaritaville and she cut her finger. She broke a glass.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is there a business establishment, a bar or restaurant, by the name of Margaritaville?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, sir.
ARIAS: It is very compelling, but none of it proves that I committed a murder.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Travis left Jodi. No other options. Travis` continual abuse.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How did you get this?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Primarily they were lost.
GRACE: We are taking your calls. Out to Angie in Illinois. Hi, Angie. What`s your question?
ANGIE, CALLER FROM ILLINOIS: Hi, Nancy. I had earlier in the week, I believe that Jodi Arias ` mother was in the courtroom? Is that true, and if so, what is that relationship between her and her mother that she was living with the grandparents?
GRACE: Good question. Out to Beth Karas. Beth has just come out of the courtroom.
Beth, what do we know?
KARAS: Yes, her mother has been in the courtroom every day of the trial, and her mother`s twin sister, Jodi`s aunt, has also been attending along with another friend. Her mother did not talk to anyone. And we actually know the reason why Jodi was living with the grandparents. I do know that she didn`t finish high school and Jodi was a little bit of a control problem for her parents when she was an adolescent. She would run away a lot as a teen and dropped out of high school. Came from a stable family, though, is my understanding, but I don`t know the reason yet for why she moved in with her grandparents in April, two months before she killed Travis.
GRACE: Joining me right now, medical examiner out of Philly, Dr. Bill Manion.
Dr. Manion, thank you for being with us. You`ve heard the medical examiner`s testimony. What does this say to you?
DR. BILL MANION, M.D., MEDICAL EXAMINER, BURLINGTON COUNTY, NJ: Well, it says to me that the gunshot wound to the head likely was the last gunshot wound, and it is important, I think, because if that had been the first injury, then he would have been knocked out by that -- by that bullet. And if I were a defense expert, I would argue that, well, that first gunshot wound knocked him out, and all the other stuff that happened to him, he wouldn`t feel any pain.
So -- but here we have the medical examiner saying, no, the gunshot wound was last, so he would have suffered tremendous pain from the stab wounds, the slashing, the cuts on his hands, the obvious struggle, and as the medical examiner talked today, that wound to the neck is a very violent, vicious, deep wound. You know, it went back to the cervical vertebral column, to the vertebrae, to the backbone, for god`s sakes.
GRACE: We remember American hero, Marine Captain Brandon Barrett, 27, Marion, Indiana. Second tour, Purple Heart. Loved the outdoors, hunting, fishing, always put others before himself. Parents Brett and Cindy, brother Broc, sisters Taylor and Ashley.
Brandon Barrett, American hero.
ARIAS: We were intimate, but I wouldn`t say romantic.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: References to being used sexually by Miss Arias. I think I was a a little more than a dildo with a heartbeat.
GRACE: We`re taking your called to Jen in New Jersey. Hi Jen, what`s your question?
JEN, CALLER FROM NEW JERSEY: Hi, Nancy. My question is, is there any proof of this ongoing secret affair that -- the other woman? Or could this be more pathological ling and Jodi trying to play the victim?
GRACE: You mean to prove that Arias was still sleeping with him or that he was seeing another woman?
JEN: No, that Arias was still seeing him like behind everyone`s back.
GRACE: Good question. To Aaron Dewey, what do you know about her still seeing him?
DEWEY: Well, after they had broken up, you know, Travis tried to move on, dated some other girls, but Jodi would still be around. They continued their friendship, would still go on trips together, but they both claimed that there was nothing romantic there anymore between them. So the fact that he`s having interactions, texts, calls, whatever it is with other girls, he`s a single man. He has every right to do that. And because of her jealousy and her vindictiveness, she kept trying to get in the way of that over and over again.
GRACE: To Matt Zarrell, one of our team producers on the story -- Matt, what do we know in response to Jen`s question?
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE STAFFER, COVERING STORY: OK. What we know that -- that Travis Alexander was seeing Mimi Hall a couple of times, had a couple of dates with her in the days leading up to his death. That they had planned to go to Cancun together as friends, but that Travis Alexander wanted more of a relationship, but that Jodi Arias would not leave them alone and had even followed Travis Alexander and Mimi Hall on one of their dates.
GRACE: To Karen in Florida. Hi, Karen, what is your question?
KAREN, FROM FLORIDA: Hi, Nancy. I was just wondering -- and thank you for taking my call. I`m wondering why she doesn`t have more support from friends or more family at the trial? Does she -- and they`re like -- you know, in the past and stuff, is there any form of, like, mental illness in her background?
GRACE: OK. Let`s find out.
KAREN: I`m just wondering why there a lack of support.
GRACE: What do we know? Beth Karas, what do we know about that?
KARAS: Well, you know, she does have a friend in the courtroom, but she`s originally from northern California, so I don`t know that many of her friends would travel this far for this long,
GRACE: Right.
KARAS: If she still has any. But the friends locally in this area, around the Phoenix area, they were also Travis` friends. So, you know, she doesn`t really have anyone on her side who knew her through Travis.
GRACE: Everyone, we`ll be back in the courtroom in the morning.
Happy birthday tonight to New York friend Vincenza. What a beauty, inside and out.
Everyone, ABC`s hidden camera hit "What Would You Do?" up next.
I`ll see you tomorrow night. 8:00 sharp eastern, and until good night, friend.
" Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Moynihan
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Re: Travis Alexander of Mesa, AZ Found Murdered June 2008-Jodi Arias on Trial
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Jodi Arias Trial
Aired January 11, 2013 - 19:00 ET
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: Tonight, as Jodi Arias stands trial for the murder of her ex-boyfriend, Travis Alexander, in a moment I will talk to one of Travis` closest friends, a father figure, his mentor. Did Travis foreshadow his own death at the hands of Jodi Arias? I`ll have details.
VELEZ-MITCHELL (voice-over): Tonight the prosecution of Jodi Arias. More and more witnesses portraying Jodi as a diabolical scorned ex- on a murderous mission, fueled by jealous rage. Is the confessed killer`s self- defense argument falling apart in court?
Tonight, Travis Alexander`s close friends joins me with an astonishing story from Travis`s own lips.
And Honey Boo-Boo is back with a vengeance and record-breaking ratings. You won`t believe what she`s wearing this time. What`s feeding America`s obsession with Honey Boo-Boo Child?
Plus, "Rico`s Rescues." My furry little friend is back to help another pooch in need find a new home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The day the car was rented was what again?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: June 2, 2008.
RYAN BURNS, WITNESS: She got on top of me, pretty aggressively, and we kissed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Some type of romantic event within hours of basically barbarically brutally killing someone you professed your love to?
STEVE FLORES, LEAD DETECTIVE: I answered that the gunshot was possibly first.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How deep is this wound?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It goes all the way back to the spine.
MIKE BROOKS, HLN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: That`s 3 and a half inches. That`s how deep that stab wound is.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Would sneak in through his house through the doggy door and sleep on his couch at night.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She had long hair when she came and got in the car.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She said she got lost, she got on the wrong freeway, and she was kind of airheaded like that.
JODI ARIAS, MURDER DEFENDANT: There is an explanation for all of that. And that will all be made clear soon.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He is saying she wasn`t present in that sexual behavior; she wasn`t emotional; she was dead inside.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, as another explosive week finishes in the Jodi Arias murder trial, we`re going inside the mind of this so-called cold-blooded killer. Did Travis Alexander actually warn his friends, out of his own mouth, that Jodi could be plotting to kill him?
Good evening, I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell.
This beautiful 32-year-old photographer, or at least aspiring photographer, admits she stabbed her ex-boyfriend 29 times, slit Travis Alexander`s throat from ear to ear, and shot him in the face. Take a look at the vicious wounds this woman left on his hands. Remember, she admits she did it. She just says, "Oh, I killed him in self-defense."
The prosecution says nonsense, that she didn`t shy away from the bloody, violent scene. Listen to this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With regard to the blood on the mirror.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Somebody may be coughing or sneezing, if they have blood in their airways.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Much larger circular area.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The bloody water is wicked up. All the blood is in the -- the blood is in the master bathroom and that area.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where was the blood?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I have never heard a trial where the word "blood" was mentioned more often. Take a look at the victim`s body.
Jodi left Travis dead in the shower, and as he decomposed, she drove more than 700 miles to Utah and then had a steamy sexual make-out session with the dead man`s work colleague.
Listen to her new boy toy describe their roll in the hay right after Travis`s murder.
BURNS: The second we woke up we were kissing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And what else happened?
BURNS: She got on top of me pretty aggressively, and we were kissing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When she got on top of you pretty aggressively, where was her genital area compared to yours?
BURNS: She was right on top of me.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: What type of person could brutally kill a man, leave a room soaked in blood, drenched in blood, and then drive to a booty call? Does that behavior ruin Jodi`s claims of self-defense?
Straight out to my very special exclusive guest. We are so delighted to have Travis`s close friend and mentor, a father figure, Dr. Karl Hiatt.
Dr. Hiatt, thank you so much for joining us. You knew Travis and what is so extraordinary about your story is that I am hearing that he actually spoke to you about his concerns about his relationship with Jodi. Tell us about that. What exactly did he tell you, sir?
DR. KARL HIATT, FRIEND/MENTOR OF TRAVIS: Well, Travis came over to our house at least every week. We had family dinners, and we would always ask him about his -- how is his love life, who is he dating.
And recently, at that time, he had left -- decided to leave Jodi and explained that the next day he was going to leave in his car, and his tires were slashed. And the Sunday after that, he explained that -- to us -- he told us about it and said, "Don`t be surprised if some one of these Sundays I don`t show up and you find me dead some place."
And we all just thought, wow, she really must be mad.
Then he said, "I`m serious."
We said, "We got it. She must be really mad." But we never thought that kind of serious. But all of us, you know, now looking back realize that he -- he really did have some fear in trying to depart from her.
He was trying to kind of change his ways and improve his life a little bit. And he was always looking to be a better person. And I think that he realized that Jodi wasn`t part of that transition, and she was kind of left behind.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: This is a tough question. And please, I`m not playing Monday morning quarterback here. Easy for me to ask this question. But given what you`ve just told me, which is a shocker, that he essentially almost predicted his own death, looking back on it now so that others can learn if they`re in a similar situation, what do you think should have been done at that moment when he said, "Don`t be surprised if she shoots me"?
HIATT: Well, you know, we all had a little bit of feeling like, well, we should have done something, and we should have told Travis he needs to get a restraining order, you know, call the police, something like that. But we never really -- I met Jodi. I never really thought that she would do something that drastic, although slashing tires was a little beyond, as well.
You know, he brought her over once, and we met her. And it wasn`t anything out of the ordinary. She had, you know, dinner with us. So I`m...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Did she seem obsessed with Travis? Did she seem obsessed? Was she sort of pawing him all night or constantly staring at him? Did she seem normal? Did she seem like, for lack of a better word, to use the vernacular, a whack job?
HIATT: No, I can`t comment on that. I can`t really remember her being anything extraordinary or obsessive or anything.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow. Well, see, that`s what`s so scary.
HIATT: Nothing stood out.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, I think that`s what`s so scary. If she had acted in a bizarre manner, Doctor, when she was having dinner with you, maybe everybody would have said, "Whoa."
But from what we`re learning about her, she could turn it on and turn it off and act -- she`s very well-spoken, and she could play a really normal person when she needed to.
And here is the weird thing. In an eerie irony, the thing you mentioned about Travis saying was "She might shoot me," it wasn`t the only time that he foreshadowed his own death.
Less than a month before Travis died, he actually blogged about dating and said, quote, "Trying to find out if my date has an axe murderer penned up inside her."
Plus, we understand that he and Jodi were reading this book together, "1,000 Places to See Before You Die," and Jodi claimed that they were going to some of these places like the Grand Canyon, et cetera.
But I have to bring in Stacey Honowitz. You have covered and prosecuted so many bizarre cases. I have never seen a case where there`s three foreshadowings. He tells the doctor, "Don`t be surprised if she shoots me." They`re looking at the book "1,000 Places to See Before You Die." And he actually blogs that he doesn`t want to date an axe murderer.
STACEY HONOWITZ, FLORIDA PROSECUTOR: You know, what`s interesting, Jane, is you know that we never know what goes on behind closed doors, so although the doctor stated that he didn`t see any unusual behavior, I mean, for somebody of that mentality, she does know how to turn it on in front of people and she maybe turned it off in private.
So he did see things that the general public didn`t see. There was something that he knew about her, something in her behavior that led him to draw these conclusions. So while it`s very eerie, we do see it in a lot of cases that victims of crimes have predicted that something was going to happen to them.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, the knife and the gun used to kill Travis Alexander have never been found.
I have to tell you, I did study the autopsy photos. We`re not going to show you them for obvious reasons. But they`re gut-wrenching; they`re stomach-turning.
You know, we have said over and over again, well, Travis Alexander was stabbed 29 times. His throat was slit ear to ear, and he was shot. But it doesn`t really paint the picture.
We want to bring in HLN law enforcement analyst Mike Brooks for a unique perspective to really paint the picture for us of what this means in terms of taking a knife and stabbing somebody 29 times.
And looking at the autopsy photo, Mike Brooks, I saw at least 12 stab wounds to the back, meaning she literally went to town on his back, stabbing him 12 -- that`s a lot of times to stab somebody.
BROOKS: It really is, Jane. I`ve looked at the same pictures over and over again to try to get a perspective. And, you know, as an investigator, when you come on a crime scene and then you try to figure out what happens and then you look at the body, you look at the autopsy, and you look at all the wounds and you say, "OK, how did this happen? When did it happen?"
But let`s take a look. The prosecution thinks, Jane, that that first wound that they think happened back by the shower or right by the shower, that was a wound to his chest.
Now, I looked at that wound. It looks -- they say in the autopsy report that it`s 1 and a half by -- one and a half inches wide, but, Jane, they said it`s three and a half inches deep into his chest. Then it said it perforated and went through the pericardial sac, the sac surrounding the heart, or went through superior vena cava.
But let`s give -- let`s give our viewers a look. Now, I`ve got my knife. I carry a knife. You know, I carry a knife, and sometimes I carry a gun. Now, this blade is 3 inches, Jane. So that`s a 3-inch blade right here. OK? But look right here. That`s three and a half inches. That is a deep, deep, deep wound. No matter how you slice it.
Now the knife itself, we don`t know -- it`s never been recovered. We don`t know what kind of knife, how big a knife it was, how wide the blade was, how long it was, but three and a half inches is a long way.
Now, how hard did she stab him? We don`t know that. But we know it was three and a half inches deep and, Jane, that is a deep wound anywhere on the body.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And does that undermine her claims of self- defense? You say maybe: "Well, I may have shot somebody in self-defense once. I might have stabbed somebody once or twice in self-defense."
But 29 times plus slitting his throat ear to ear -- which by the way in the autopsy photos, looks like almost a decapitation -- is that really self-defense? Can that hold up in court?
More on the other side.
ARIAS: I would be shaking in my boots right now if I had to answer to God for such a heinous crime. But I`m very grateful that this is one thing that I will never have to answer to when I stand or sit before the judgment seat someday.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: A horrific crime scene, and what`s really awful about this case, in my opinion, is the defense strategy smearing the victim, essentially blaming the victim, a man who is not here to defend himself.
And they did this with playing and showing triple X-rated evidence. And some of this testimony is really -- we have to warn you, it`s graphic, but it was said in open court. And let`s listen, and then we`re going to analyze it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jury members will see e-mails in which Mr. Alexander referred to Mrs. Arias as a, quote, "(EXPLETIVE DELETED) wonder."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection, hearsay.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As a slut.
FLORES: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As a whore.
FLORES: Yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to go back to Dr. Karl Hiatt. This is an exclusive interview with a close friend and a father figure to Travis Alexander.
Travis Alexander is not here to defend himself. He is not here to put anything that he may have allegedly e-mailed in context or whether it was a response to something that was maybe even more salacious.
What can you tell us about his character that would be what he would say if he were able to speak and defend himself today?
HIATT: Well, it`s interesting. The Sunday before his death -- you know, after our evening meal, we usually kind of go to the family room and share. And that day after my daughter shared a little bit and she`d been in a camp and stuff, Travis stood up and said, "I want to share." And he shared his vision for his future and how he was changing, and he wanted to bring a lot of people with him in this change.
He really spoke about his grandpa. He lived with -- he was raised by a set of grandparents but then was visited by another set. And every day - - or not every day but every time his grandpa, before leaving, he would grab Travis by the shoulders, get his attention -- he was just a little boy -- knowing the circumstances, that his mom and dad out of his life, into drugs and not raising him, but he would grab him by the shoulders and get his attention, and he wouldn`t say anything until Travis was paying attention. Travis made a point of that. And his grandpa would say, "Travis, you`re special. You can do anything; you can be anything," and then he`d give him a hug.
And it got to be where Travis really cherished that when his grandpa left.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to get back to the contrasting that with the horrific nature of his injuries. Because while they smear Travis Alexander, the defense does, the prosecution is responding with basically the most compelling evidence, and that is the injuries inflicted on him. And let`s go through Travis` injuries.
Mike Brooks, you`ve got the telestrator to show us exactly what happened to Travis.
BROOKS: You know, Jane, I look at -- I look at the picture of Travis, you know, here, with Jodi, and then I looked at those autopsy photos, and we`re going to be talking about his wounds, and they are just horrific.
Now, the prosecution also said, and the autopsy photos showed a series of nine different stab wounds in a cluster. Three, four accident five, six, seven, eight, nine on the center of his back. But we don`t know when these were inflicted upon him.
I think, Jane, that after he was stabbed in the chest -- they think that was the initial wound -- he made his way down that hallway. Did she, while he was struggling with his life, he was trying to live, trying to breathe, was she stabbing him in the back nine times as they headed back -- as he headed back what he thought was refuge, back to his bedroom? We don`t know.
But you look at this crime scene here, Jane. Look at this -- look at this blood. Now, this -- this is the hallway leading back to the bedroom. That`s 12 feet, 6 inches from here all the way back to this door. That`s 12 feet, 6 inches.
But look at this blood right here. This is thick, congealed blood. This is where the prosecution, Jane, that`s where they think that he had his throat slit.
And I looked at that picture, Jane. It was -- I`ve seen a lot of crimes like this before. This was extremely heinous, extremely brutal.
He was slit from ear to ear, literally right underneath his -- right underneath his chin. He had his jugular vein, he had his carotid artery both severed along with his wind pipe. And then he somehow made his way back down that hallway.
But look at this picture right here, Jane. You see this crime-scene photo with that -- with we see the blood on the sink? Well, somehow he made his way back down this hallway from where this blood was. Did he stop along here? We see a lot of pooled blood. We heard testimony from the first officer on the scene about the pooled blood.
Then we also had Lisa Perry, the forensic scientist, talking about the blood spatter, along the hallway, along the walls, to and from. Was this crime scene cleaned up? I think it was somewhere between the walls...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes.
BROOKS: ... the east and the west walls from the bathroom all the way to the bedroom.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I think she tried to clean up the crime scene, but she did a very bad job of it.
More on the other side.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Were you in love with Travis?
ARIAS: I think that being in love and loving someone are two different things, and there was a point in time where we were in love, but it was short-lived.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why did you guys break up?
ARIAS: There was a breach of trust in our relationship.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: On your part or his part?
ARIAS: Both.
BURNS: From the second we woke up we were -- we were kissing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And what else happened?
BURNS: She got on top of me pretty aggressively, and we were kissing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When she got on top of you pretty aggressively, where was her genital area compared to yours?
BURNS: She was right on top of me.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That man testified he made out and fooled around sexually with Jodi Arias just hours after she, by her own admission, killed Travis Alexander.
And at the center of this trial, gruesome crime-scene photos. The wounds violent, leave you wondering how could this petite woman have over powered such a much larger man?
Listen to what that guy, who again fooled around with Jodi just hours after she killed Travis Alexander, said about her powerful build, and he saw it.
BURNS: I complimented her on being very feisty and was kind of referring to she`s a lot stronger than she looks.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were you able to see her stomach in terms of whether or not she was in shape?
BURNS: Yes. Close to a six pack, yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So Monica Lindstrom (ph), Stacey Honowitz, let`s debate it when you look at these gruesome photos, and you wonder how a petite woman could inflict this kind of damage, even though she was just 5`4" and 115 pounds, and he was 5`9" and at least 189 pounds, we`re hearing now, Monica Lindstrom (ph), criminal defense attorney, she was no delicate flower. She had a knife, and she had a gun.
MONICA LINDSTROM (PH), CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: And also remember that she`s someone who, according to the defense, was being abused, has been emotionally battered over this time that she`s been with him. So all of a sudden something snapped inside of her. Adrenaline probably started flowing. There might be claims that he was coming after her. For example, she dropped the camera, and statements were made that he was lunging at her.
If so, all of a sudden her adrenaline kicks in. She`s looking around for anything that could help her. We`ve all heard stories about small people when, all of a sudden, the adrenaline hits them and they have this incredible strength. So it doesn`t surprise me that she was able to do this if she was in that state of mind.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Stacey Honowitz, though, do you think that she has a viable self-defense argument?
HONOWITZ: Absolutely not. I think that the defense really just made the argument for the state.
The bottom line is these injuries, you know, it`s gruesome for the jurors to see, but prosecutors have seen them in many cases. And we`ve seen many cases where littler defendants have overpowered and killed bigger victims.
In this case you have substantial, disgusting, horrific injuries. And it`s not that difficult once you make that first initial plunge into someone`s chest, that person goes down and the person`s weak to begin with. And now you have all that opportunity to go after them.
And all those wounds in the back, I mean, that`s compelling evidence it wasn`t done in self-defense.
This girl had the ability to kill and then go have an affair with somebody without remorse, without saying anything, with injuries on her hands. So that`s what the state had.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Monica.
LINDSTROM (ph): I think that we need to point out that she`s not a doctor and all of this happened so quickly. How would she know that that stab to his heart, that really deep stab wound that we were just talking about previously, how would she know that that was going to kill him or that he was on his way -- or that he was dying at the time? She still had to protect herself, no matter what it was.
She wasn`t thinking, "Oh, my gosh, he turned around. I better, you know, not stab him because it might not work for self-defense." She`s in a state of mind that she has to defend herself.
And that`s where the defense is coming from, that -- that she had to use that emotion inside of her, that strength. She had to protect herself because he was coming at her, and he had abused her before.
Now, is it a super strong argument, forgive the pun? No, probably not, but everything counts to the defense. Everything they say, every detail matters.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me say this. So far -- we haven`t heard the defense case, but so far they have just blithely referred to, oh, he was mad because she dropped the camera. Nothing else more specific. There is nothing that she`s said -- that has been said in open court by the defense about what he did because he was angry.
Can you -- can you just state these statements without backing them up whatsoever?
We`re going to continue to debate this on the other side. But I`ve got to tell you, you don`t want to miss my exclusive guest Tuesday night. I`m going to talk to a man who introduced Jodi Arias to Travis Alexander and what does he have to say about their explosive relationship? That`s Tuesday here at 7 p.m. Eastern on HLN.
And of course Monday, we`ll be back with the very latest, as well. And more on the other side.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: They lived in two states, and they were from two different worlds. The evidence today in court shows Jodi Arias lived a grittier, less glamorous life with her grandparents back home in Yreka, California. She grew up in a modest home sleeping in a small bedroom with a few hundred dollars in her bank account.
Ironically, even though Travis Alexander was born to drug addicted parents, he was a self-made success story. He lived in a beautiful new home in Mesa, Arizona, with a sprawling master suite. And after getting a Toyota Prius, he sold his other car, a BMW, to Jodi.
Was Travis` luxurious lifestyle yet another draw in Jodi`s alleged fatal attraction?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Why was Jodi Arias so obsessed with Travis Alexander? You just saw that they really lived different lives and that she may have found his life very glamorous and appealing by comparison.
Straight out to forensic psychologist Dr. Cheryl Arutt; sometimes people who don`t know boundaries, borderline personality disorders, they see something they like and they feel entitled to go grab it. And they don`t really make the connection that, well, just because you like something doesn`t mean you can take it.
DR. CHERYL ARUTT, FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: That`s right, Jane. To have an impulse to want something and take it are two different things. I have to tell you this is the sort of case that makes is hard for real battered women to get justice. This sort of case, when I was hearing the arguments earlier about how this might have been a self-defense kind of situation, having worked for so many years with women who have been abused and have been traumatized.
I have to say if that really happened, that she after the fact would have behaved entirely differently. Someone would have seen the trauma in the next 24 hours afterwards. She wouldn`t be able to kind of throw caution to the wind and have a romantic encounter and make the man believe that nothing out of the ordinary had occurred. And the stories afterward - - the different stories about how this happened -- it just is so disappointing to me when I see cases like this. There are so many real abused women who do ultimately have to protect themselves as a last resort and they don`t look like this.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And I have to say, Stacey Honowitz, Florida prosecutor, this whole self-defense, it really is a house of cards according to the prosecution and a lot of observers because there is no, oh, we have no evidence that she ever called 911 and said that he was abusing her, nobody ever heard her complain that he was abusing her.
STACEY HONOWITZ, FLORIDA PROSECUTOR: Yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: She never had any bruises. The only time she had cuts was after the killing, and prosecutors say that`s because when you stab somebody 29 times and slit their throat, you`re going to get some cuts on your hands.
HONOWITZ: Yes. I mean that`s correct. There is no evidence of abuse coming out from the defense. And the fact of the matter is the doctor is correct; her sociopathic behavior showing no remorse, driving thousands of miles and having a romantic interlude -- anybody who murdered somebody whether self-defense would never have that type of behavior.
And so what you`re looking at here is a house of cards, it`s throwing a defense up there to see what sticks. Bottom line is the state has compelling overwhelming evidence this was not done in self-defense. It was cold-blooded murder.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We have seen Travis`s family sobbing in court, leaving court when the crime scene photos came up. Jodi Arias` family is also in court but stone faced even when photos like this one pop up showing gruesome bloody violence to Travis Alexander. Court observers say the Arias clan remains motionless -- emotionless.
Here is Jodi`s mother sitting in the gallery with her twin sister, Jodi`s aunt and some other relatives and they`re on the opposite side of the courtroom from the Travis family. But yes, they still have got to pass each other in the hallways, and it is awkward to say the least.
Selin Darkalstanian, senior producer on our show, Jodi`s mom has been quoted as saying Jodi was a difficult child who ran away often. What do you know? We`re going to show you a picture of her grandparents` house. It is a very small house in Yreka, California. What do you know about Jodi and her family?
SELIN DARKALSTANIAN, HLN SENIOR PRODUCER (via telephone): Well, we know that she was not on good terms with her family. She was living with her grandparents at the time of her arrest. It sounds like she dropped out of high school, got her GED, did odd jobs, waitressing jobs here and there. And if you hear the stories of everybody who knew Travis and their relationship it sounds like she pretty much got up, left, followed him wherever he was. So he was in Mesa, she lived in Mesa. Then she wanted to at one point move to Utah.
So it just sounds like she didn`t have a very stable upbringing with her family. She didn`t have a good relationship with her parents. She lived with her grandparents. She was kind of all over the place and, you know, that photo they showed yesterday in court of her bedroom, of that small twin bed and a cramped house and then you put it next to -- in court, you know, they put it next to Travis Alexander`s house and you can tell, you know, he was making money. He was successful. He was at the height of his career.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And Dr. Arutt, briefly, again there could have been this desire to have him sort of fulfill everything that she didn`t have in life.
ARUTT: Yes. She could have had a plan that he was going to provide her with glamour and legitimacy and she was going to be respected and she was going to have this life, and when it may have been a real blow to her ego when he decided that now he was thinking about marriage and pairing up with someone and she was not the kind of woman that he was looking to do that with.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. I hate to say that because I think it`s sexist but in this case, it might apply.
Thank you, fantastic panel.
And later tonight, "NANCY GRACE MYSTERIES" will go beyond the courtroom highlighting key moments in this week`s court proceedings and what to expect in the week ahead. That, on HLN at 8 p.m.
" Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Moynihan
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Re: Travis Alexander of Mesa, AZ Found Murdered June 2008-Jodi Arias on Trial
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Nancy Grace Mysteries - Jodi Arias
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s dead. He`s in his bedroom.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In the shower.
911 OPERATOR: OK. How did this happen. Do you have any idea?
JODI ARIAS, CHARGED WITH MURDER: I just can`t think of a single soul.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have no idea. Everyone`s been wondering him for...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... a few days.
911 OPERATOR: She said that there`s blood. So is it coming from his head? Did he...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s all over the place.
ARIAS: The evidence is very compelling.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I had an immediate suspicion that it was Jodi who had done this.
ARIAS: No, I had no part in it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He actually had everything going for him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s in his bedroom.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In the shower.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was that a defensive wound?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Could be, yes, consistent with that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where is the body?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Would be -- from this vantage point, would be to your right.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) 8 and 9, possible hairs and/or fibers.
ARIAS: I heard all kinds of rumors. They said there was a lot of blood.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jodi was Travis`s dirty little secret.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did that include, like, a sexual relationship with him?
ARIAS: Yes, it did.
The explanation for that will come out soon.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: It`s really hard to pick amongst so many bombshells in the courtroom this week in the Jodi Arias murder trial. I can`t really identify one big moment because there were so many big moments. But I would have to say the biggest headlines out of the courtroom this week were the fact within a couple of hours after Jodi Arias slits her long-time lover`s throat, that she`s literally climbing on top of another man.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The first episode of sexual interaction that you`d ever had with her?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You didn`t -- did you ever any sexual interaction in Oklahoma City?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And the kissing, about what time of the day was it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Probably 3:00, 4:00 PM.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And she arrived at what time?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 10:00 or 11:00. 10:00 or 11:00.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So within five hours of arriving -- and you`d never seen her before -- this interaction is taking place.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you said, Well -- you talked about cuddling. Do you remember that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Does cuddling include her moving you around and getting on top of you and grinding on your pelvis?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is that what you mean?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We never talked about that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But is that what cuddling means?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection, your honor. Asked and answered (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Overruled. You may answer.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is cuddling?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I mean, just snuggling up to a movie.
GRACE: She finds a single Mormon man many, many hours away and drives to him and commences to make out with him literally within about 17 hours after she slices Travis Alexander ear to ear, stabs him 29 times, shoots him in the head, beats him, drags his body around, takes photos of the dead body and crime scene photos, does a cleanup, bathes the body with warm water.
I mean, how can you turn away? It`s like the most horrific car wreck you`ve ever seen along the side of the interstate.
ARIAS: I`ve been in the relationships before where the other guy wasn`t faithful, and there`s, like, a distinctive gut feeling that you just have and that I noticed because I`ve been in relationships where they were faithful, at least to my knowledge, they were totally faithful, and that feeling just isn`t there.
So I had this feeling with Travis, and I gently asked him about it. He got really upset and, like, he was, like, No, there`s nothing there. Don`t worry about it.
And I knew he was on his phone texting a lot, and I knew he was texting these girls. And I was, like -- I was, like, Well, what about your text messages? He says, Look, I can be flirtatious but there`s nothing going on. And I said OK.
So this was last year in June. And one day, he was taking a nap, and I felt -- this is (INAUDIBLE) this is one of the reasons we lost all of our trust. I just -- I shouldn`t have done this, but I grabbed his phone and I looked at his text messages. And I found -- there were tons of girls that I`d never heard of. And I knew that he knew a lot of people from the business, so I didn`t worry too much about it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Seemed like she didn`t trust him. I don`t know if he was doing stuff with other girls besides flirting and talking to people. Yes, it seemed like the reason they broke up was because they didn`t trust each other.
GRACE: So you`ve got her literally climbing on top of another man a couple of hours after she slashes Travis Alexander`s neck.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did this kissing continue or did it just stop at one kiss?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Eventually, we kissed probably many times. Every time we started kissing, it got a little more escalated.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And with regard to the physical contact beyond the kissing, was there any of that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Clothes never came off. You know, at some point, she was kissing my neck. I was kissing hers. But clothes never came off.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How about your hands?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, my hands were -- I never touched her breasts or anything like that. At one point, I had my hands on her thighs. She was -- you know, things were -- she just definitely seemed to be into the moment. And you know, eventually, we stopped.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Before you stopped, did your hands ever go near her vaginal area?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you have any moral or religious qualms against premarital sex.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I mean, Ironically, it was kind of -- I hadn`t actually attended an LDS church for probably over a year at that time. And she would often tell me how she felt about, you know, her religious beliefs, the book of Mormon, how she felt.
And I think that was kind of one of the big reasons why I didn`t want her to regret her trip when she came was because I certainly didn`t want her going home feeling like she regretted her trip or she made a huge mistake or that she let temptation take over.
And so, you know, that was one of the things that kind of made me stop, you know, when things were kind of getting a little heated between us. And so yes, it was more her expressing her religious beliefs and almost trying to bring me closer to God.
GRACE: To me -- and I don`t think a lot of people are going to agree with me on this. To me, one of the most horrific details that came out this week is the fact she sliced his throat with such force, with such venom, with such hatred that the knife goes all the way back to the spine, back to the neck bone.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What are we looking at here?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a side view of the neck wound. And it`s probably one of the better views to show how deep it goes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And how deep is this one? What is it that was cut as this knife came through the...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The jugular vein and the carotid artery on the right side were both cut.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And looking at this, how deep is this wound we have here?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Goes all the way back to the spine. So it`s three inches, four inches.
GRACE: So you`ve got her climbing on top of her new boyfriend a couple hours after she slashes her other boyfriend to death. You`ve got a knife wound to the neck so deep that it goes all the way back to the neck bone.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How did he die?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Primarily blood loss.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And tell me how that works on the body in terms of the blood loss and what that does to the individual as he dies.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, after you lose blood, you lose the ability to provide oxygen to your major organs, including your brain and your heart. In this case, the first thing that would happen would be dizziness, followed by a loss of consciousness and then death.
GRACE: It leads to a lot of speculation, grounded in forensics, as to the scenario that unfolded, how she actually killed him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would blood come out of the mouth, ears or just out of the chest area?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It depends on what`s hit inside the body. If the lung was nicked, which is possible in this case because we`re dealing with a decomposed body, so the organs aren`t as pristine. They`re not as -- they don`t lend themselves to examination, as in a fresh individual.
But if the lung is nicked, they can cough up blood. If you have blood going into the throat area -- he does have, you know, throat injuries, as well, which we talked about -- all those can cause coughing up of blood or loss of blood out of the mouth.
GRACE: One other thing that I think is a headline. And again, I don`t know if many people will agree with me on this because a defense attorney will tell you that this does not a murderer make -- but her lies, her lies not necessarily about the murder itself but just lying about everything.
It reminds me so much of tot mom and Scott Peterson. It`s like they lied for no reason. They lied because they could, because they were breathing! They just lie. Their lips are moving, so they just lie.
She lied about her car tags. She lied about her whereabouts. She lied about her job. She lied about where she worked, what she did, her religion, her previous boyfriends, her relationships. Everything she lied about.
I think that is just so critical because under the law, under our centuries-old law, the jury is the sole decision maker when it comes to credibility.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did you think about? I mean, the last time you had talked to him was what, Monday, or Wednesday? What was it?
ARIAS: I think it was Tuesday evening, I think, Tuesday night.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. Did you think of, you know, what was going on? The last time you talked to him -- did you try to get ahold of him after that?
ARIAS: Yes. Yes, I did. I tried to get ahold of him. I called him Tuesday night. I called him subsequently and e-mailed him a couple times.
GRACE: Who says this is self-defense? Jodi Arias. She`s the only one that says that. No other person that knows Travis Alexander believes he would ever hurt a woman. She is the only one that says that.
Every lie that can be attributed to her damages, torpedoes her credibility. I ask you this. If she would lie about where she worked, that she worked at Margaritaville, you don`t think she would like to save her own skin? Think about it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jodi wanted nothing but to please Travis.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jodi`s attorneys want the jury to believe she killed Travis in June 2008 in self-defense, that he abused her and she feared for her life when she attacked him in the shower in his Mesa, Arizona, home.
GRACE: We all watched testimony of new boyfriend Ryan Burns. I spoke to him in depth, and what struck me the most about him was his demeanor. He just seemed like a big teddy bear, a likable guy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: During the time that you and she are alone in the afternoon, did you notice her hands?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And did you notice whether or not she had any injuries or cuts to one of her hands?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She had two small bandages, it seems like, on one of her fingers, a couple of her fingers. She told me she worked at Margaritaville and she had cut her finger.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And how did she cut her finger at Margaritaville?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think she told me she broke a glass and cut her finger.
GRACE: And what spoke to me was he really loved Travis Alexander. In fact, he told me point-blank that the murder victim in this case, Travis Alexander, changed his life, that he was ready to give up and quit his job and just wander until he heard Travis Alexander speak. And it turned him around. It motivated him. It, quote, "changed" his life.
It makes me think, it makes me connect the dots, that Travis Alexander was of the same ilk as Ryan, and I liked him. I liked him. And very often, juries will strain and contort in order to believe the one they like. This is a friend of Travis`s, and I really believe that that good will created by Ryan Burns will translate onto the murder victim in this case.
And that is so very important because a major, a key component in the defense case is to drag Travis Alexander through the mud in death. They`ve already killed him. He`s dead. We`ve all seen the shower stall photos of his decomposing body in a damp shower stall. What can they kill now? Let`s see. His reputation.
So they are painting him out as everything from a woman beater to a sex deviant to a dishonorable cad that cheats on a girlfriend. I would venture to speculate none of those are true.
Also, Ryan Burns told the jury point-blank that Jodi Arias was literally adjusting him, moving him over on the sofa so she could crawl on top of him and straddle him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I complimented her on being very feisty, and I was kind of referring to (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: During this encounter when -- after you wake up, did she ever -- and the phrase may have been "adjust" you in any way while this encounter is going on?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, that`s what I mean. When we woke up, we were kissing. And then she eventually kind of grabbed me and adjusted me a little bit. That`s when she got on top of me (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And that -- were you able to feel her strength at that point?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And did you form an opinion, again, throughout the day as part of that as to her strength?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, she`s strong.
GRACE: A couple of hours after she sliced Travis Alexander ear to ear. Now, that`s something to stew on.
GRACE: Jodi Arias`s behavior, as described by Ryan Burns, is not the demeanor or the behavior of a woman who just killed in self-defense. As a matter of fact, she even left messages on Travis Alexander`s voicemail regarding cashing a check she had written to him. I mean, she knows he`s dead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is there anything else that you can remember, or think of, or any theories or anything that can help us?
ARIAS: I just -- I just don`t know. Travis was a friend to everybody. And you know, even when things were bad between us, he was always -- he would give his last -- he would give his last dollar, his last whatever. He was selling me his BMW. I was supposed to e-mail...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, you mentioned that. You kind of burned it out or something?
ARIAS: (INAUDIBLE) found my check in his house.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, yes, a check that you gave him for payment.
ARIAS: Yes. I guess, like, I -- this is so dumb. Like, it seems so unimportant, but I guess I need to know if that check is going to be deposited any time soon.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, no.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... can`t be deposited, so...
GRACE: And she`s leaving this voicemail. If a woman killed in self- defense, I would think that they would pick up the phone and call 911. Why didn`t she? I don`t understand that.
But going straight to Ryan Burns`s home to egg him on sexually, and then go out with him and his friends, within a few days, going out with Travis Alexander`s friends and yukking it up and going out to dinner, that is not the behavior, in my mind, of someone who just took another life in self-defense. No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Some people had some unpleasant stuff to say about you. And I don`t know why. I mean, I talked to you and you seem like a good person. And you know, (INAUDIBLE) you saying that you were kind of obsessive after the breakup and things like that. What was going on to make them think that?
ARIAS: The only thing I can think of, and I realize that, is because I was at his house a lot. But I didn`t go to his house unless I was invited over, unless (INAUDIBLE) over. He would send me text messages late at night, saying, Hey, I`m getting sleepy, dot, dot, dot (INAUDIBLE) dot, dot, dot. And that was, like -- that became, like, my cue, that seemed like a code word for, I`m falling asleep. You can come over now and (INAUDIBLE) and wake me up (INAUDIBLE) and so that would happen a lot.
GRACE: Ryan Burns, the new boyfriend, detailed very carefully for the jury the story that Jodi Arias gave him as to why she was about 24 hours late arriving at his home. She said everything from, I got lost, I went to sleep, I took the wrong exit. Well, if you look at the map, it`s a straight shot down the interstate from where she said she was to Ryan`s home. So how do you get lost? I don`t understand that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: During this interlude that you are having, what was her demeanor? Was she upset? Was she happy? What was her demeanor?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I mean, it just seemed like the person I`d been talking on the phone, just meeting her in person. I never -- there was never a moment where it felt awkward or anything like that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What was her demeanor like? Was she crying at any time? Was she upset at any time? What was her demeanor like?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I mean, the only time -- I mean, she was fine. She was laughing about simple little things, just like any other person.
GRACE: Everything she said didn`t make sense. If he had analyzed it then, he would have seen that. But he did not. We, of course, in retrospect can see that that, too, was a lie.
ARIAS: Well, I spent a lot of time at his house. But because it`s more than just that kind of DNA, there is an explanation for all of that. And that will all be made known very soon. Again, it doesn`t prove that I committed a murder, and I didn`t commit a murder.
I didn`t hurt Travis. I would never hurt Travis, would never harm him physically. I may have hurt him emotionally, and I`ll always regret that. But you know, the explanation for that will all come out soon.
Don`t roll the tape yet!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jodi Arias goes back to court today.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can have cuts to the back of the forearm, and it`s consistent with someone trying to either grab the knife or fend off injury.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That is a possible shoe impression that was found on the tile floor in the bathroom.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you tell with regard to the gunshot wound to the right temple whether or not he was alive or not at that point?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t see hemorrhaging in the brain.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If we don`t see hemorrhaging or bleeding, is that an indication the person was already dead?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It may have been.
ARIAS: My name`s Jodi.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) start pointing fingers in your direction right away.
ARIAS: I don`t know. Maybe I`m -- because I`m the ex-girlfriend. We had lots of fights.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How did he die?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Primarily blood loss.
GRACE: Playing back Jodi Arias`s police tapes, the interrogations, is really a double-edged sword, and I`ll tell you why. It clearly shows that she changed her story. Hearing her give her answers in her own voice is compelling when you know that everything she says is a lie and she just does it so well, so easily.
Only one problem, and that is, if they are forced to put in all of the interrogation tapes, all of her statements, where she gets to put forth to the jury self-defense -- the problem with that, then she won`t have to take the stand. So I would be very careful before I put in that statement to the jury.
ARIAS: But what bothered me was there were -- not only were some flirtations like I had suspected and which bothered me, but it wasn`t necessarily a crime, but there were plenty of -- there were, like, plans, like -- things like, Well, Where do you want to meet? Oh, I don`t know. Wherever`s the best place for -- where`s the best place for us to make out in.
And I was, like, What? Oh, my gosh! You know, we`d been dating for a few months at this point, and he always said, Well, we`re not dating anybody else. And to him, that was, I think, reasonable enough because I think in his mind, he was making out with other girls, but he wasn`t dating them was OK.
The only reason I think that`s true is because of what we continued to do, like, you know, (INAUDIBLE) and I didn`t realize that, either. So I confronted him about it.
Actually, I didn`t confront him at first. I should have been an adult and confronted him, but I held it in for a few weeks, and then it all came out. That`s when we broke up. And so I just realized that I don`t -- I didn`t feel like I could trust him fully to be monogamous, and I don`t think he couldn`t trust me fully to not to get back in his phone someday and I`d try to find something out.
GRACE: The medical examiner, or coroner as he is called in many jurisdictions -- the ME`s testimony I believe was one of the stars of the trial because we see, based on blood marks, palm prints, blood dragging marks, blood spatter marks and blood transfer marks, we can pretty much nail down the order in which Travis Alexander was attacked.
And you can`t do that without the medical examiner laying out the wounds to the body and how he or she thinks it went down and there is forensic evidence from the body itself that backs up that timeline.
That`s very, very important in a death penalty case, where the state is trying to show aggravating circumstances, such as after you stab someone 29 times, you then shoot them, or vice versa. To me, it`s both heinous, which is an aggravating circumstance. So no one can make out those facts, other than the medical examiner who processed the body.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you tell with regard to the gunshot wound to the right temple whether or not he was alive or not at that point?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Again, there`s a wound going through the head, and I don`t see hemorrhage in the brain. I can`t see a wound track through the brain. So all I know is that there`s a bullet going through the brain. So I can`t say with certainty.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And if we don`t see hemorrhaging or bleeding, as you talked about, is that an indication that the person was already dead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He may have been, yes.
GRACE: The fact that Jodi Arias`s left palm print was found at the scene of the crime places her there at the time of the murder because it`s not as if she was there shortly before the murder. It`s not as if she came in and happened upon the body and ran out.
She was handling the body. She was touching the body in order for her hand to get completely soaked in blood -- literally blood on her hands. Not only is it powerful evidence figuratively, metaphorically, but practically speaking, it places her there at the time (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you have an estimate or is there any science out there that tells you, Well, this type of wound, given what I know about it, would take X amount of time?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. It depends on so many factors. It depends on the person`s health. It depends on the care that they receive. It depends on their blood volume to begin with and the position of their body.
GRACE: None of the evidence so far has suggested self-defense. And I think the most telling wounds are going to be the nine stab wounds to the back.
Anybody that knows anything about our legal system knows that shooting somebody in the back or stabbing them in the back is not self-defense. You must, under the law, truly believe that you are in fear for your life or serious bodily injury. Stabbing somebody in the back clearly shows you`re not being attacked. You are the aggressor. Nothing, nothing that has been brought out by the medical examiner suggests self-defense.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want to talk to you a little bit about the wounds on the back, OK? All in all, on the back there was nine wounds. Is that correct? No, no. I`m sorry in the upper back. Let me be more specific.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, a cluster of nine stab wounds on the upper back.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And I think that`s what you called a grouping?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And they`re in between his shoulders, is that right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And these wounds you`d consider very shallow, is that right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They are shallow, yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If somebody were standing -- if the two people were standing facing each other and the person with the knife is reaching over the back, that`s going to have less force to it, wouldn`t it, than somebody who`s standing behind and being able to drive the knife right in without stopping.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Generally, I`d agree with that, yes.
GRACE: Police also -- very good police work, I might add -- found a cache of receipts. They were before the hours surrounding the murder and after the hours surrounding the murder.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Take a look at exhibit 237.004. And this is to Valero, right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is the date on that one?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: June 2nd, 2008.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And the time?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What kind of card was used?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A Mastercard.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What are the last four digits?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And it also has a name here, right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What`s the name?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jodi Arias.
GRACE: It shows that she very carefully did not spend money, use credit cards, get any receipts placing her near or at the murder scene. It`s very cunning.
911 OPERATOR: OK. Now I need to let the officers know what they`re walking into...
911 OPERATOR: ... so can you tell me where the blood is coming from?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know. I saw him curled up in the -- he`s -- he`s curled up in the shower, and that`s all I saw. I turned away.
GRACE: I think the most difficult point for the defense this week was two-fold. When Ryan Burns testified that she was literally climbing on top of him to egg him on sexually within hours after slashing Travis Alexander`s throat, and the ferocity of the crime, the wound so deep to his neck, it literally went all the way back to the spine.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Taken together, all the views of the back and head could have been fatal from bleeding over time. The most significant wounds are going to be the neck wound, which we haven`t talked about yet, the stab wound that penetrates the heart (INAUDIBLE) heart, and also the gunshot wound, which we also haven`t discussed.
This is another stab wound of the back part of the skull behind the ear. So there`s bone underneath there. It goes down into that bony area and also goes into the muscle (INAUDIBLE) side of the head (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And we`re looking at 201. How big is that one?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One-and-one-quarter inch.
GRACE: Many court watchers and legal eagles believe that Jodi Arias will have to take the stand to establish self-defense. No one can testify to that but her.
I`m wondering if the defense can get it in through other statements that she has made, for instance, to news outlets, media. The state has brought in some of those. Now, the state is using that evidence to show that there were three different stories she gave, but the defense can latch onto that, use the story of self-defense to their benefit to avoid her having to take the stand.
She would be crucified on cross-exam, crucified, sliced up like a Thanksgiving turkey.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... or when you had contact with him or the last time you talked to him.
ARIAS: Yes, I think -- I know that I talked to him early Monday morning, which was -- I was just up late Sunday night, for example. And I probably talked to him, it may have been a good 45 minutes that morning. And we were talking about how he lived -- he had a conversation with another person about (INAUDIBLE) that was really a conversation (INAUDIBLE) talking a lot about what was said there. And I think we probably talked until about 4:00 in the morning, I think.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wow.
ARIAS: Yes, we were -- he was a night owl. I`m a night owl. And it wasn`t a really long conversation. We`ve had conversations that lasted hours and hours, but this one was probably only -- I want to say 45 minutes. It may have been longer. I guess I could check.
GRACE: We`ve seen a change of appearance in court, even in one day changing from powder blue to midnight black, now suddenly donning gold wire-rimmed glasses for a smart look.
I also see her -- any body language expert will tell you this -- literally hiding behind her long now dark hair. She looks like Cousin It, there`s really no other way to put it, when she puts all the hair down so the jury can`t see her face. Why? Why is she hiding from the evidence? To me, right there, that nonverbal behavior speaks volumes.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST, "ISSUES WITH JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL": Jodi Arias`s reaction to the autopsy photos was one of just theatrical grief. She`s sobbing. She`s convulsing. Interestingly enough, she`s hiding her head under her hair a lot of the time, I think from shame, I think from shame at seeing this being displayed before the world, her handiwork, as it were.
And sometimes, she would look for a second at the autopsy photos and then appear to recall, as if she was sort of snapping out of denial for one second and then going back into that world where she`s not really facing reality.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. So the last time you talked to him was like on Monday morning.
ARIAS: I`m sorry, I did talk to him on Tuesday night.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, Tuesday night.
ARIAS: It was brief, though. Like, that was a matter of just a few minutes. It was (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you know what time that was?
ARIAS: Oh, 10:00 o`clock, maybe.
ARIAS: Yes, I`d say 10:00 PM, or maybe 9:00 PM, 9:30, 10:00, 10:30, something around there. I guess I could go back and check.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: About 9:00 to 10:00, anywhere (INAUDIBLE)
ARIAS: Somewhere between that -- yes, it was -- it was late. It was, like, kind of late. I mean, for us, that`s not late, but...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What was the purpose of that call?
ARIAS: Just calling to check in and say hey, and let him know -- just hi.
ARIAS: I was just calling people because I was bored. I was on the road.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, so you were on the road at that time?
ARIAS: Yes. It was real brief. He was nice and cordial, but he was kind of acting like he had hurt feelings because (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you kill Travis Alexander?
ARIAS: I absolutely did not kill Travis Alexander. I had nothing to do with his murder. I didn`t harm him in any way. I witnessed Travis being attacked by two other individuals.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who?
ARIAS: I don`t know who they were. I couldn`t pick them out in a police lineup.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So what happened?
ARIAS: They came into his home and attacked us both. I`m not proud that I just left my friend there to be slaughtered at the hands of two other people. I`m not proud of that at all.
ARIAS: We hung out throughout the weekend, had a lot of fun, exchanged phone numbers. And it was one of those things where I didn`t expect him to call, but he called me the very next day, and so I was, like, Oh, hi.
And you know, he`s a good conversationalist. He just kept me engaged in conversation constantly, and you know, he wanted to know about me, and people like to talk about themselves, so you know, just one thing led to another and we became great friends.
GRACE: Beth Karas straight out of the courtroom. Beth, legal correspondent, "In Session." Whoa, what a day! But first, a motion for mistrial. The defense tries to get the case thrown out. What happened, Beth?
BETH KARAS, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": Well, they lost the motion, that`s the bottom line. But they said it`s because there was contrary testimony from the lead detective at a hearing a couple of years ago regarding the aggravating factor of cruelty that would make this case a death case if the jury finds first degree.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And in that testimony, you were asked about the sequencing of injuries according to Dr. Horne (ph), is that correct?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I was.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. And you were asked, in terms of sequencing, which came first, which wound came first, correct?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. And do you recall what your answer was?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I answered that the gunshot was possibly first.
KARAS: And then saying that the sequence of shots -- the fatal wounds testified to in 2009 at this hearing is different from what the testimony was at the trial. At the hearing, the testimony -- and the judge found -- was that the shot to the head was first, but it didn`t render Travis Alexander unconscious. He could still fight. And there was a finding of probable cause of cruelty. That`s the aggravating factor.
Well, this judge said, Look, OK, now the testimony is the stab wound to the heart was the first fatal wound. That didn`t render him unconscious. He was able to keep fighting. He had defensive wounds. And the shot came later. I still find it was cruel. So I`m denying your motion. And besides, it`s kind of late for you to say that the theory has changed.
GRACE: Well, yes, Beth Karas, it`s my understanding that the defense interviewed the medical examiner, Dr. Horne, a year ago, around a year ago, so they went through the sequence with him then, regardless of what the police officer said.
And another thing, Beth, I`m not -- maybe I just can`t get my mind around the argument. They`re saying that it`s more cruel to, what, stab somebody, then shoot them, as opposed to shooting them and then stabbing them? Does it really matter? You say tomato, I say tomahto.
KARAS: Well, basically, yes. And the judge just said, Wait a second, he`s still alive for all of those stab wounds and defensive wounds or he wouldn`t have bled so much. His heart was still beating. So whether he was shot first or stabbed in the heart first -- because there were three major fatal wounds, stab to the heart, gunshot to the head and slash across the throat.
And the testimony at the trial was the gunshot had to come later because it went through his brain. The slash of the throat had to come later because he was dead within seconds after that. The stab to the heart was the first wound, and that`s why he fought because it didn`t kill him right away.
GRACE: Well, to me, it`s slicing hairs, which injury -- what I care about, Beth, is the sequence of events as to how he was killed. I think stabbing somebody 29 times, shooting them in the face, chipping their head, their skull, with a knife, cutting them ear to ear -- to me, it`s incredibly heinous regardless of which wound is first.
ARIAS: I know that I`m innocent. God knows I`m innocent. Travis knows I`m innocent. No jury is going to convict me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why not?
ARIAS: Because I`m innocent.
GRACE: I have no doubt in my mind that Jodi Arias will be convicted of murder one.
" Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Moynihan
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Re: Travis Alexander of Mesa, AZ Found Murdered June 2008-Jodi Arias on Trial
Reply #46 on:
January 14, 2013, 03:44:15 PM »
Travis Alexander Predicted Jodi Arias Would Kill Him, Friend Says
January 14, 2013
Travis Alexander believed Jodi Arias slashed his tires after he dumped her and he predicted his own death.
Thats the latest revelation from a friend of Travis, whose former lover Jodi Arias is on trial for his murder, accused of stabbing the motivational speaker 27 times and also shooting him.
Dr. Karl Hiatt told Jane Velez-Mitchell in an exclusive interview on HLN that Travis feared for his life after Jodi allegedly attacked his car.
" Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Moynihan
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Re: Travis Alexander of Mesa, AZ Found Murdered June 2008-Jodi Arias on Trial
Reply #47 on:
January 14, 2013, 03:45:30 PM »
Jodi Arias trial live video stream: Read a wrap-up of Arias murder case trial day 5
January 14, 2013
" Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Moynihan
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Re: Travis Alexander of Mesa, AZ Found Murdered June 2008-Jodi Arias on Trial
Reply #48 on:
January 14, 2013, 03:47:17 PM »
Jodi Arias Police Interrogation Tapes Played in Court
January 14, 2013
Video at link
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Re: Travis Alexander of Mesa, AZ Found Murdered June 2008-Jodi Arias on Trial
Reply #49 on:
January 14, 2013, 11:52:55 PM »
Thanks for posting, Muffy! I've been trying to catch the trial, she really is another Casey Anthony!
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Re: Travis Alexander of Mesa, AZ Found Murdered June 2008-Jodi Arias on Trial
Reply #50 on:
January 15, 2013, 12:04:12 AM »
Quote from: KCJackie on January 14, 2013, 11:52:55 PM
Thanks for posting, Muffy! I've been trying to catch the trial, she really is another Casey Anthony!
You're welcome! I've seen a lot of comments and articles comparing Jodi Arias to Casey Anthony. Both are such liars!!
Last Edit: January 15, 2013, 12:05:51 AM by MuffyBee
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Re: Travis Alexander of Mesa, AZ Found Murdered June 2008-Jodi Arias on Trial
Reply #51 on:
January 16, 2013, 12:49:18 PM »
Quote from: MuffyBee on January 15, 2013, 12:04:12 AM
Quote from: KCJackie on January 14, 2013, 11:52:55 PM
Thanks for posting, Muffy! I've been trying to catch the trial, she really is another Casey Anthony!
You're welcome! I've seen a lot of comments and articles comparing Jodi Arias to Casey Anthony. Both are such liars!!
Monkey Junky Jr.
Posts: 712
Re: Travis Alexander of Mesa, AZ Found Murdered June 2008-Jodi Arias on Trial
Reply #52 on:
January 16, 2013, 11:10:30 PM »
Quote from: cookie on January 16, 2013, 12:49:18 PM
Quote from: MuffyBee on January 15, 2013, 12:04:12 AM
Quote from: KCJackie on January 14, 2013, 11:52:55 PM
Thanks for posting, Muffy! I've been trying to catch the trial, she really is another Casey Anthony!
You're welcome! I've seen a lot of comments and articles comparing Jodi Arias to Casey Anthony. Both are such liars!!
Every time i watch any of that trial i see casey anthony. Its disturbing that there are two of her. I dont know if anyone is watching or following it but the questions the jury asks are making me think they shipped in the pinellas idiots for this trial. If this monster is aquitted i will be sure of it.
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Posts: 44735
Re: Travis Alexander of Mesa, AZ Found Murdered June 2008-Jodi Arias on Trial
Reply #53 on:
January 17, 2013, 09:14:54 AM »
Jury Sees X-Rated Pics of Jodi Arias
Aired January 14, 2013 - 19:00 ET
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: Why was Jodi Arias hiding her face today? Because judge, jury and everyone else in the courtroom were all looking at extremely pornographic photos of Jodi that were shown in open court. But will those photos be a slam dunk for prosecutors who unveiled them? Or will they help Jodi`s self-defense claims?
VELEZ-MITCHELL (voice-over): Tonight, sobs in court, as stunning naked photos of Jodi Arias and the man she stabbed and shot to death, Travis Alexander, are shown in open court. Did Jodi photograph Travis as she killed him?
And Travis`s former roommate joins me exclusively. He says Jodi called him to ask him about how Travis was killed.
Plus, brand-new information we`ve uncovered in Jodi`s arrest report. Was she trying to flee and disappear but cops nabbed her first? We`re taking your calls.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let`s take a look at exhibit 164. What side of the face is in the photograph?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The right side.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And exhibit 148, what side?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The left side.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The left side of his head, correct?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s much stronger than she looks.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It doesn`t appear that he`s injured in any way, right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In these pictures it doesn`t appear that he`s involved in any altercation, right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is this a wound that could kill this person?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you tell how close the individual was taking this photograph?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, sexy and even pornographic -- and I mean triple-X-rated photos, and police station interviews stun the Jodi Arias murder trial courtroom. Will these salacious photos sway the jury? And if so, which way?
Jane Velez-Mitchell, coming to you live. Good evening.
The stunning 32-year-old photographer admits she stabbed her ex- boyfriend 29 times, slitting Travis Alexander`s throat ear to ear and shooting him in the face. But Jodi claims, oh, it was all in self-defense.
Well, just moments ago, the jury saw some graphic naked photos of both Jodi and Travis. We can`t show you all of them. But these are some of the milder ones. Here she is -- well, that is kind of a pose that could be an artist type pose. The other one, she`s in pigtails. What is the significance of her posing in pigtails naked?
And again, here`s the artsy nude of Jodi. In the photo where she seems like a model for an impressionist painter, but I have to tell you, there are some photos of Jodi that were shown in open court that are way, way, way too graphic to show on television. Truly X-rated. And the big question: how will they impact this trial?
There are also nude photos of Travis laying on the bed. Now, just contrast these photos with the autopsy photos. A little while after these photos are taken, look at the vicious wounds that Jodi Arias, by her own admission, left on his hand.
The prosecution explained that just minutes before Jodi did this horrific damage to her lover of hours earlier, she and Travis were up to some kinky sex games, including taking those graphic naked photos. Listen to this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Items that were deleted, were there some that involved Mr. Alexander in the shower?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were there also some nude ones that appeared people were involved in some sort of sexual activity?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s an image of a male, correct?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, it is.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is this right here? Do you know what that is?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It looks like a bottle of personal K-Y, I believe, or some lubricant.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: How do you get from this to killing? Well, we also saw cops grilling Jodi during an on-camera interview the very day she was arrested. This is fascinating. We`re going to play clips of various ones throughout the hour. Listen to this one.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you just playing games? A gun was in your possession. When did you report it stolen?
JODI ARIAS, MURDER SUSPECT: I didn`t even know that there were guns until my grandparents reported it stolen, that their house was broken into?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When was that?
ARIAS: I don`t remember, a few months ago, maybe.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did you do with the gun?
ARIAS: I don`t have a gun.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Just one of her many, many, many of the lies, but she admitted she shot Travis Alexander, claiming later self-defense.
I want to hear from you. Call me: 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297.
Straight out to "In Session" correspondent Beth Karas. You were in the courtroom. I have to say myself, watching all of this, this was one of the most stunning days I have ever seen in any trial I have ever covered: from graphic, triple-X-rated photos to a courtroom just stunned, to listening to the defendant lie repeatedly on videotape.
But let`s get to these photos. What were the photos that weren`t shown? Because I think that that does go to the point of why they are essential to the case. Describe them as you can, and what the reaction was in court.
BETH KARAS, CORRESPONDENT, TRUTV`S "IN SESSION": OK, the photos that you didn`t show but described as basically triple X are two photos that Travis took of Jodi Arias, and basically, it`s her exposed genital area with her legs spread. Two photos like that.
What the defense did in opening statement was show those photos, juxtaposed with one or two of Travis in the shower, more tasteful photos, as Jennifer Willmott, the defense attorney, described them, to basically show that he was taking these humiliating photos of her, while she was taking more artistic, you know, nice photos of him from the waist up in the shower. That was the defense`s position.
Of course, the prosecution is going to introduce everything that was deleted from the camera, to show a time line including when the attack happened. And that`s what these photos helped to establish.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, and let`s take a look at some of the photos shown in open court today. And now we`re going to debate. We`ve got three attorneys, and they represent various opinions, how those photos will impact the trial.
Now, they were shown by the prosecution. But some would suggest maybe they could end up helping the defense. Here you see Jodi naked, wearing pigtails. Look at her expression. She does not appear to be happy in this photo. This is hours before she, by her own admission, stabs Travis Alexander. Some might ask, was this part of a sex game, the pigtails?
And you also see Jodi naked in this artsy pose. You -- we can`t show you the other photos. And one is Jodi. You heard one described by Beth Karas. The other is Jodi on her hands and knees, naked, being photographed from behind in a gynecological pose.
Clearly, since there`s only two in the house, it would appear that Travis Alexander was taking those extreme, X-rated photos of Jodi. And Travis is also photographed by her naked.
But again, sex is the wild card. You never know how it`s going to impact the subconscious of the jurors, especially if you`ve got a juror that`s more prudish than the rest.
So let`s bring in our three attorneys: Reidy Sandler (ph), criminal defense attorney; Loni Coombs, former prosecutor and author of "You`re Perfect"; and Jordan Rose.
And just to get things started, let`s start with Reidy Sandler (ph). You`re a criminal defense attorney who has taken Jodi Arias`s side. Do you think that these photos could end up, even though they were introduced by the prosecution, helping the defense?
REIDY SANDLER (PH), CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Absolutely. Today was a great day for the defense, and as vivid and graphic as these photos are, it actually helps the defense. It sets up either, in a best-case scenario for the defense, self-defense. Worst-case scenario for the defense, it negates premeditation and deliberation and intentional murder. It sets up the fight. It sets up the second-degree murder. So I think, all in all, a very good day for the defense today.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Loni Coombs today, former prosecutor...
LONI COOMBS, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Yes. Yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... could they, these sexual photos, impact the case?
COOMBS: Well, obviously, it`s going to be a mixed bag here. Because as you say, sex is always a wild card for people. There are so many different stereotypes that people are dealing with, and a lot of people out there still don`t believe that a woman can necessarily enjoy sex the way that, you know, with all of these sex games. And so that`s going to play into this defense of she is being forced to do this. This is an abusive situation. She didn`t want to be there.
However, the key in this case is, while it`s hard and boggling to the mind, she went from sex to violence. We know that very soon after that she went back to sex when she went and met her lover in Salt Lake City. And whatever it is about Jodi Arias, she is able to go from sex, coldly killing, and back to sex, and that`s what the jury needs to focus on.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Shana Hogan, journalist, author of "Picture Perfect." These were introduced by the prosecution. What is your reaction -- You`ve studied this case head to toe -- of the impact that these photos are going to have?
SHANA HOGAN, JOURNALIST: Well, it certainly blows her, you know, demure ingenue act that she`s been putting on in court, that she`s too sweet and innocent to engage in some sort of sexual activity.
I disagree with the defense attorney that was on a little bit earlier. I think it was a really bad day for the defense. It shows that she could do these things, and she was clearly enjoying herself at one point in the day. And that she just snapped and was able to things that now she admits to. So we know she did those things, so we know she was able to go from sex to murder.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Listen, these are two consenting adults engaged in this behavior at that time.
But, I want to bring in psychotherapist Robi Ludwig. Again, sex is the wild card. You never know how a jury, and it`s a predominately male jury, is going to react. Are they going to decide she is some of those bad things that she was called in opening statements, while e-mails were read. I don`t need to repeat those words.
ROBI LUDWIG, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Yes, yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Are they going to -- is this going to cheapen her? Or could the jury become sympathetic toward her, concluding that she was sexually exploited by Travis?
LUDWIG: It`s a tough leap. I mean, you have to think that there`s going to be some judgment there. Jodi is such a beautiful girl, and here she is, seductive, and being portrayed as this, you know, sexualized woman. Almost like a porn star.
I don`t think you look at these pictures and just automatically assume that she`s being abused. I wouldn`t look at those photos and think she`s being abused. I might think that they have a different agenda, and maybe that triggered a rage. But I don`t know that we`re seeing abuse here. I mean, you can read that picture.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I think it could work for the prosecution, as well, if she felt humiliated by taking these photos she could have experienced rage after that.
LUDWIG: That`s right.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Said, "Oh, how could he have done that to me."
LUDWIG: Or why does he only love me for sex? Why doesn`t he love me for me? Why isn`t he choosing me? Why am I only a sex object to him?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Eight seconds, what are the pigtails?
LUDWIG: She`s acting like a little girl, feels powerless, perhaps, and it sounds like it was role playing going on.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Sexual role playing.
LUDWIG: Sexual role-playing.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Where she`s the school girl?
LUDWIG: She`s a school girl. It sexually turned him on. She wanted to turn him on, and she assumed this role.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But you said something interesting to me. You said before we got started that photos -- sexual photos are usually something that men like to do. It doesn`t turn women on as much, because they`re not as visually oriented.
LUDWIG: I don`t think so. I think for men it turns them on. It stops a moment in time, a pleasurable moment in time, so that they can revisit it again, so it`s almost like that sexual peak gets relived.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Later, we`re going to talk to a stalking survivor who is living a real nightmare. She says her husband made her a domestic slave and then framed her for murder. Her unbelievable story, just minutes away.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With this wound of the heart, he should have been able to get his hands up and attempted to defend himself.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What`s this right here?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Blatant print 169-a was individualized as the left palm of Jodi Ann Arias.
RYAN BURNS, WITNESS: She got on top of me pretty aggressively and we were kissing. Complimented her on being very feisty. She`s a lot stronger than she looks. She had two small bandages.
ARIAS: If I`m found guilty, I don`t know how I -- I`m not guilty. I didn`t hurt Travis. If I hurt Travis, if I killed Travis, I would beg for the death penalty.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And a stunner in court today. There is Jodi Arias, shielding her face and crying, because the entire courtroom is looking at triple-X-rated photos. Triple-X-rated photos of her as she is holding her face.
As somebody said, wow, it`s almost worse than being accused of murder to have -- not really, but you know, imagine, just imagine the intense humiliation of that.
Now, do we have Selin Darkalstanian, our senior producer?
Selin, you were inside the courtroom. Tell us the reaction: Jodi Arias, Jodi Arias`s mother, who was there. The Travis family, tell us.
SELIN DARKALSTANIAN, HLN PRODUCER: When the photos were being shown, the actually very pornographic photos were being shown, the entire courtroom was silent. I can tell you the reaction of jury. There was not one juror who was not paying attention to those photos, sitting forward, taking notes, very into -- you know, into what was happening in the courtroom.
And there were two points in the courtroom today that I could -- you could hear a pin drop in the courthouse, and it was when those photos of Jodi were being shown, and it was when the audiotapes of her interrogation were being played. I mean, they had the entire courtroom listening to every single word that was being said.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Selin, just jumping in to say this is Jodi Arias`s mother, and we see her showing emotion for the very first time in court today.
DARKALSTANIAN: yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tell us about that. When...
DARKALSTANIAN: Well...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Go ahead.
DARKALSTANIAN: Ever since this trial has started her mom has been there every single day, sitting in court, supporting Jodi, right behind her. But we have not seen any emotion from her. We have not seen any emotion when they showed autopsy photos of Travis, when they showed really horrific, bloody crime scene photos. We have not seen her, like, wince sitting in court.
But today for the first time we saw her crying. We saw her show emotion. And this is very different from how she`s been every other day sitting in court.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, Jordan Rose, attorney out of Phoenix, Reidy Sadler (ph), another attorney, says this is going to be a great day for the defense because, oh, it shows that she was sexually humiliated. And the male jury will respond by having sympathy for her and believing her tale that maybe this was part of an abusive situation. You -- what do you say?
JORDAN ROSE, ATTORNEY: Well, she has to show that -- it`s not enough to say that she`s got battered women`s syndrome or she`s been abused. It has to be that the abuse caused her to have to react to a life-threatening situation right then and there.
And so far I think the defense has only shown that Travis is a flirt. And the jury really picked up on that. I mean, they asked a lot of questions about that the other day.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m talking about these photos. Jordan, these photos.
ROSE: The photos are absolutely salacious, very helpful for -- very helpful for the state. And just goes to show just what she has been painted as, which is, you know, at best, promiscuous, at worst a slut, and certainly a woman who is after young Mormon boys. Her M.O. seems to be to go find these boys, and corrupt them with premarital sex, even talking about the city of Mesa, which in Arizona has a very heavy population of Mormon folks, as you know, the place to be for this sort of activity.
The photos are wonderful for the state. And it was a great day for the state.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, Reidy Sadler (ph), quickly, your response to that?
SADLER (ph): I couldn`t agree -- I couldn`t disagree more, I should say. First of all, the photos corroborate the sexual deviance theory that the defense put out there. They also corroborate the dual life. The outgoing Travis to, you know, his personal life. Out there to people in his profession, and then the private life which was completely different.
So I think again, perfect day for the defense to set up their defense of battered women`s syndrome.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, will these sexually explicit photos shown in court today change the trial? Much more on that. And in just a couple of minutes, we`re going to talk to one of Travis Alexander`s former roommates, and he has a story to tell.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Knowing Jodi as I do, she`s going to be very strong. But she also has her emotions as anybody else, so she will have those moments, of course, where people have seen her cry. Have seen her show her emotions. And...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you ever shot that .25 auto?
ARIAS: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You ever touched it?
ARIAS: The one that was stolen? I`ve never seen it. Gram said it looked like (UNINTELLIGIBLE). I don`t know what a .25 looks like.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Christine.
Whoa -- along with the extraordinary crime scene photos and the photos that we saw that are salacious in nature a second ago, there was also played in court this extraordinary interrogation video, where Jodi lies, lies, lies. "I`ve never seen a .25 caliber gun." She just said it there. Well, as she later admitted when the evidence against her became overwhelming, that she indeed shot Travis Alexander with a .25 caliber gun.
Now I have to say, and I`m going to go back to Jordan Rose on this. The litany of lies that we hear on this interrogation tape is so extraordinary, but remember, it`s not just lying that the prosecution has to convince her of -- convict her of. It`s also murder. And there`s a big difference, as we learned in the Casey Anthony case, between being a pathological liar and being a murderer. So could the prosecution be making a mistake, now, that we all agree that, yes, she killed him, by focusing in so much on her lies?
ROSE: Well, you know the photos definitely help to show that she is leading, at best, a double life. And with the interviews today coupled with all of that testimony from her -- you know, from her just lying constantly, it shows that you know, she -- she is -- she`s a compulsive liar.
I mean, you`ve got some of the things today coupled with the idea that she -- she had communication with Travis`s sister, asking him -- asking her if he was OK after she knew that she had killed him.
This woman just starts to -- you know asking questions about, talking about how the -- you know, no jury will convict me. And this is a heinous crime, a stabbing like that would be heinous. She`s constantly talking, saying too much. And that is not helpful to the defense, self-defense claim.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, it`s almost like she`s used to being able to manipulate men with her little -- soft little voice and talking like this. And it`s not working with these cops. We`re going to play more in a second of their extraordinary interrogation of her, where they just close in with the evidence. And she is just backed into a corner.
Let`s go to the phone lines. Christina, North Carolina, your question or thought? Christine?
CALLER: Yes, Jane. The way I always greet you, I love you and Rico, and God bless your mother.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you.
CALLER: Listen, the first thing I want to -- I want to say to you, I`ve been thinking about this. I talked to you about the blood spatter the other night. I`m curious if, because he was cleaned off so well. And I know that she was full of blood. I wonder if she got in the shower with him, even though he was dead, to clean herself off. And he got cleaned up in the midst of it. And when she got out of the shower...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jean Casarez -- Jean Casarez, you`ve been studying this case. What`s extraordinary is not only does she first have sex with him and then photograph him in the shower. We`ve also got those other photos of her, photographing him in the shower literally moments before he`s killed. We`re going to show you those photos. But then she washes him off, and she does a very bad job at cleaning up the crime scene. Tell us about that.
JEAN CASAREZ: That`s right, and so prosecutors said in their opening statement that it was staged. And you see where there`s been so much water on the floor, that like, it permeates into the box of copy paper that is in the closet.
But whether she washed herself off in the shower, there`s only one person that knows that. And if Jodi Arias takes the stand, she will be asked those questions.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Fascinating theories of photos. You are seeing a man moments before he is killed. And these are some of the photos that were taken by Jodi of him, naked in the shower. Look what a handsome man he is, and he was literally stabbed 29 times, shot in the forehead. And his throat was slit moments after these photos were taken.
It`s unbelievable. It`s extraordinary. And some inadvertent photos, prosecutors say, of the killing itself, as she stepped on the camera, during the act of killing. More on the other side.
BURNS: And she looks -- she eventually kind of grabbed me and -- adjusted me a little bit.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you form an opinion as to her strength?
BURNS: Yes, she`s strong.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I believe the wounds, on the hands must have occurred before the fatal injuries, either on the head or throat.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you notice her hands?
BURNS: She had two small bandages, it seems like, on one of her fingers.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We were just playing games here. That gun was in your possession.
I was trying to get the truth from Miss Arias.
You do have the right to remain silent. And anything you say may be used against you in a court of law.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the palm of the left hand, with this wound to the heart he should have been able to get his hands up in time to defend himself.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have the right to the presence of an attorney. If you cannot afford an attorney, you have the right to have an attorney appointed for you. Do you understand these rights?
JODI ARIAS, ON TRIAL FOR MURDER OF TRAVIS ALEXANDER: Yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you just saw some gruesome crime scene photos - - evidence photos of Travis Alexander`s mutilated body today -- extraordinary photos in court of Travis and Jodi naked in the hours right before she by her own admission killed him. As we show you those photographs that were shown in court. This was him in the shower but we also have of photos of them naked in bed.
As we show you these photographs we`re going to go to Jean Casarez for a wrap-up on what happened in court today and the reaction to these photos -- Jean.
JEAN CASAREZ, CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": You know, when I was in the courtroom and I saw some of the photos, first of all the sister of Travis Alexander, she was dabbing her eyes, she was crying. She left the courtroom and came back in.
The jury obviously focused. The jury looked so conservative as they are sitting in their seats right there. But it is the time line of these photos that are important. It doesn`t need -- they don`t need to establish that Jodi was there. She is admitting it.
But Jane, it is really the combination of these photos and the time line and the fact that there is a gun and there is a knife very, very close at hand.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, the idea that somebody could go from being sexy to being a rageful killer, or as she argues, self defense killer. However you put it, he was stabbed 29 times, his throat was slit, and he was stabbed in the forehead.
Not only did we get new insight into Jodi`s arrest today from the videotaped interrogation -- we`re going to show you more clips of that. But we also got our hands on the incident report where several police officers say they believe Jodi was getting ready to flee, to run.
The report says right before they arrested her, Jodi was packing up her car. And in that Chevy Cobo (ph), they found luggage, a gun, two knives and a box of bullets. The gun however was a 9-mm not the same kind of gun that was used to kill Travis Alexander.
Now, Shana Alexander -- Shanna Hogan, you`re writing a book on this case "Picture Perfect", and you`ve gotten ahold of this 500-plus page police report that everybody wants to see, but nobody else has, to my knowledge or few have. What are some of the biggest shockers that you have discovered in there?
SHANNA HOGAN, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Well the -- what was happening on the day of the arrest certainly was; the fact that she attempting to flee or at least packing boxes, giving the police the impression that she was attempting to flee. You know there`s a lot in there. That`s the one that kind of comes to my head. I would have to kind of give it a look to think of some other things.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, but it is pretty amazing that you got ahold of this and you have been going through it line by line. And it shows you just how hard the prosecution is working that they came up with a 550-page police report. Prosecutors played more of that crucial video between Jodi and Detective Flores. And Jodi -- and she was adamant. She was absolutely adamant that she had absolutely nothing to do with Travis Alexander`s killing, even though detectives have tons of evidence that they kind of reveal slowly that hey, we`ve got you, we`ve got you. We know you were there. Listen to this exchange.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were you even at Travis`s house?
ARIAS: Absolutely not, I was nowhere near Mesa. I was nowhere near Phoenix.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What if I could show you proof you were there?
ARIAS: Well --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would that change your mind?
ARIAS: I wasn`t there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You need to be honest with me, Jodi.
ARIAS: I was not at Travis`s house, I was not.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You were at Travis`s house, you guys had a sexual encounter, which -- there are pictures. And I know you know there are pictures because I have them. I will show them to you. Ok?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jodi -- Dr. Robi Ludwig, psychotherapist. I`ve been saying the words "Jodi" and "Alexander" so much I`m calling everybody --
DR. ROBI LUDWIG, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Dr. Robi Ludwig, you`re seeing a theme in the litany of lies that she tells with absolute aplomb. I mean --
LUDWIG: I mean, there is a common theme.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes.
LUDWIG: Self-preservation. Her life is on the line when the police are interrogating her. "Were you there?" "I was nowhere near the house, nowhere near it."
She was preserving herself, and I think the same thing happened when it came to her relationship with Travis. Something happened between the two of them where she felt emotionally annihilated. And she retaliated.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I think it is absolutely fascinating. And the irony is that if this woman had used that ability to lie to good purpose, she could have become a top Hollywood actress, instead she might be put to death.
LUDWIG: I think she was trying to be a singer in prison --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, right. Exactly.
Ludwig: Yes. It`s a little too late.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to go out to our very, very special guest, Brint Hiatt. And this is an exclusive interview, Travis Alexander`s former roommate. We thank you so much for joining us Brint. Let`s cut right to the extraordinary story you have to tell about -- we`ve just been playing a tape of Jodi lying through her teeth. We know because she`s admitted that she killed him and we`re just all astounded in how effectively and how convincingly she lies.
She called you the very day or the night that Travis Alexander, your dear friend`s body was found. Tell us about the conversation.
BRINT HIATT, TRAVIS ALEXANDER`S FORMER ROOMMATE: Well, it was -- I guess you could say it was interesting. I mean, at the time we -- all of us, well, I was one of the ones that kind of broke the news to a lot of the people. And so everyone was asking, and she was kind of a common one. She actually called me a couple of times, you know, several times left me voice mail messages. And you know, she sounded really frantic on the phone.
I showed the voice mail messages to detectives. They advised me not to answer. At the end of the night I did talk to her. And I did -- I just felt I would be -- I would feel like a horrible person if it came out that it wasn`t her and that I was denying her the information, you know that her -- well that her former boyfriend was dead. So it was an interesting experience.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Was she (inaudible) you for information -- the conversation you had, what was her affect? Did she sound like she knew what had happened? Now that you look back in retrospect --
HIATT: No, no.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: -- knowing that she`s the one who by her own admission killed him. Go ahead.
HIATT: It`s hard to -- it`s a kind of a tough pill to swallow because at the time she sounded very innocent. I was definitely torn. I was told that she was a suspect, but she sounded -- it didn`t sound like she had done it. She sounded very, you know kind of shocked that anything might have happened.
She wanted to know if everything was ok, if he was ok. She also wanted to know why no one was speaking to her and letting her know what was going on. So I guess I was the first one she got through to. But I was actually surprised that she even had my number to be honest. I must have given it to her at some point in the past. But it was just kind of a shock to be getting her calls.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, and just briefly, we hear her putting on her little innocent act with the detectives who are not buying it. But did you get the sense that she felt like with men she had a way and that she could kind of manipulate them any which way she wanted, like by calling you. She could get you to give her the information she wanted by using that seductive little voice, which I`ve never been able to use so that was a bad imitation.
HIATT: Well, she definitely used emotion to her advantage. I guess I could say that. And she sounded really distraught and really distressed, and I bought. Not that I necessarily believed or just believed, but I wanted to let the, you know, evidence come out. I didn`t want to make judgments at the time.
You know, I didn`t want to be the first one to crucify her, I guess. But at the same time from everything that I had been hearing, yes, I suppose that you could make that case. It was a different side of her that I hadn`t seen.
To be honest, at the time all I knew of her, she was really shy, introverted -- I mean she had come to my family`s house for dinner with Travis once or twice and that was -- you know she had still been shy. She didn`t really come out of her shell as much so to hear that much emotion was different for me.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Brint thank you and hang on there. We`re going to take a brief break and be back with you and we have callers, we have our team of experts and what an extraordinary day in court.
More on the other side.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jury members seeing e-mails in which Mr. Alexander referred to Miss Arias as a quote, (EXPLETIVE DELETED) wonder".
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection -- hearsay.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As a slut?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As a whore?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You won`t want to miss our exclusive guest right her on this show at 7:00 p.m. tomorrow. We`re going to talk to the man who introduced Jodi Arias to Travis Alexander. What does he have to say about their explosive relationship?
That is tomorrow 7:00 p.m. Eastern right here on HLN.
ARIAS: I guess that`s really all he needed. Sorry, don`t roll the tape yet.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: What an extraordinary day in court. There is -- Jodi -- Jodi Arias, Jodi Arias behind bars doing all sorts TV interviews. Look at her. She thinks she`s a movie star. Well now, she`s seeing the downside of this cheap road to fame as she cringes in court as triple x- rated photos of her are shown in court.
You can literally see her going like this, because the humiliation of having these graphic -- there she is -- the graphic shots that we can`t show you in court before essentially the world. We did get some of them that we brought you. It has to be the utmost humiliation.
Let`s go out to the phone lines -- Jackie, Michigan your question or thought -- Jackie, Michigan.
JACKIE, MICHIGAN (via telephone): Yes, hi, Jane, thank you for having me. The question I have is every high-end camera has an auto timer. And you can change the date and time, unlike a camera phone. How does anyone know that she didn`t have those photos taken on an auto timer, and that he took them?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, that is an excellent question. And I want to go to Jean Casarez on that. You`re there, covering this trial and you have covered many trials. And I remember a case actually -- it was not actually a criminal trial but I remember a case in Los Angeles, where everybody thought that something had happened.
I think it was the O.J. Simpson case at one time. But it turned out that the person who owned the camera had not set the date properly or the time properly and it turned out that it was wrong that the evidence was irrelevant, because it was not that particular day.
CASAREZ: It doesn`t look like the defense is going to go that way because in their opening statement they really seem to admit to the photos but talk about that what looks like is an attack and it is an attack, and he is attacking her. And that is what the photos are going to show.
But her initial question, what was the initial question, because I had a thought for that, your caller?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, she said essentially, how do they know that it is the right date and time? We`re having all these photos shown that actually documents the exact second that he was killed based on the previous photo, and then the inadvertent photos that were taken during the killing --
CASAREZ: It is the auto timer.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes.
CASAREZ: The auto timer. She was talking about the auto timer. You know what is interesting, all of these photos we see of the two of them, they`re out and about and traveling, who took those pictures? I think there had to have been an auto timer that took the pictures. Now, we can`t confirm it`s the same camera but I think that the auto timer would be something that a budding photographer like she said she was and loved, would do.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: More on the other side.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Has he been threatened by anyone recently?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, he has. He has an ex-girlfriend that`s been bothering him.
MARIE HALL, FRIEND OF JODI ARIAS: She had followed us on the first date that we went on.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have heard stories of her watching them sleep or I`ve heard stories of her watching through windows or doorways.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: The ultimate humiliation. Jodi Arias, the defendant, hiding her face in court as triple x-rated photos of her, gynecological photos are shown in court. How will they impact the trial? We have been debating that all of this evening. Next, a stalking victim.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You reported a gun stolen, .25 auto. It just happens to be the same caliber as the weapon used to kill him.
ARIAS: A .25 auto was used to kill him?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. Along with multiple stab wounds.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: There she is, lying again caught on tape during her police interrogation. Wow, an extraordinary day in court and a lot of her behavior according to friends and family of the victim was stalking behavior.
Tonight we have a stalking survivor with us. Katerina Brunot, thank you so much for joining us. You are from Russia. You met an American tourist. You thought, well, this is love. You moved to America with this man. You say that he instantly turned knew a, quote/unquote, "domestic slave", forcing you into unwanted sex, cooking, cleaning, and then proceeds to stalk you.
Give us some of the stalking behaviors that this man exhibited because stalking is a big part of this case.
KATERINA BRUNOT, STALKING VICTIM: Yes, hi, Jane.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hi.
BRUNOT: I`ve been stalked for about three years. I tried to get away from him. He immediately started -- first of all, when I was in (inaudible), the woman`s battered shelter, he was stalking me. I constantly see his truck going back and forth. And when I moved out from the shelter, my car brakes were cut and water was poured in the gas tank. Then certainly I received numerous threatening phone calls and then my mail was forwarded to different states and so on.
So that was that. And simply just seeing him --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me jump in. Katerina, when you see this case where Travis Alexander`s tires were slashed, where a girlfriend he dated got a threatening e-mail. It`s very, very similar, is it not?
BRUNOT: Yes, certainly. Very similar.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Dr. Robi Ludwig, stalkers, they don`t re-invent the wheel. They do the same thing pretty much.
LUDWIG: Right. They have a hard time having intimate relationships in a traditional way. And so when they feel rejected, their way is to be close to the person but they do it in unhealthy ways.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Brint Hiatt, Travis Alexander`s former roommate. This is what happened with Travis. He was afraid.
HIATT: Yes. Yes, that`s true. It`s kind of, I guess, common knowledge among some of his friends. He talked about it with a few of us.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And what did he say?
HIATT: Yes. Well, just all this stuff that you mentioned that has been happening. He`s just been worried about it. Some of it he was annoyed. I know that -- I know that he`s like spoken around with members of my family as well where he actually mentioned that he was worried that he might end up dead. He actually said that to my father, for example. I think my dad did an interview last night or something but he mentioned that. Yes, he was scared.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And if we could only have looked at what happened and done something in that crucial moment, but it`s always easy to look back and think of, oh, here is what we could have done. Not so easy to predict the future.
More on the other side.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She is the one who did the stabbing. She`s the one that slit his throat. And she`s the one that shot him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- tell us that they think you were absolutely obsessed. Obsessed is the word that they used. That`s the word I hear from everybody, fatal attraction. I don`t know how many times I`ve heard that.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Shanna Hogan, journalist who`s writing a book on this case called "Picture Perfect", you obtained the 500-plus page police report. Tell us what some of the most significant things you found in there are.
HOGAN: Well, the day of her arrest, her grandfather actually went to her place of employment and brought home her paycheck stub and said, look, look at this. She was working at the time and obviously the last date was May 31st so that wasn`t true.
One other thing, I have a camera here and to demonstrate, to clarify how these photos were taken. The first photos of him and her are taken straight on and there are some at a lower angle. And here is what the prosecution thinks happened, the camera was dropped, it takes a picture of the ceiling and then it was turned over. The last two photos are taken upside down and they think that stepped on the camera twice and that`s what caused those last two photos that were blurry and taken upside down to be taken. I wanted to point that out.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let`s take another look at one of the quote/unquote, "inadvertent photos" the prosecution say captured the killer in the act. This is a first that a camera would be in a private home catching a murder on camera -- prosecutors say it`s murder. And prosecutors say caught Jodi murdering Travis because she accidentally clicked it as you just heard from Shanna Hogan.
Here is the photo. Let`s show it. Now when you look at this photo, you see a white stripe on the left side. According to police Jodi was swearing sweatpants with a stripe on the leg, so that would be her standing there over his dead body and you can see that it`s a bloodstained scene. How extraordinary that that photo is an inadvertent photo, prosecutors say, of the murder itself.
Nancy next.
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Re: Travis Alexander of Mesa, AZ Found Murdered June 2008-Jodi Arias on Trial
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Jodi Arias`s Photos Shown at Murder Trial
Aired January 14, 2013 - 20:00 ET
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, Mesa, Arizona. They meet up on a work trip in Vegas and they fall hard. But when the flame burns out and they break up, she then moves 300 miles to get back together, to pursue him, even converting to Mormonism to get her man.
But then 30-year-old Travis Alexander found slumped dead in the shower of his five-bedroom home, shot, stabbed 29 times, violence so brutal, it resembles a mob hit.
Just hours after Arias stabs her 30-year-old lover, Travis Alexander, to death in the shower, Arias has sex contact with a brand-new boyfriend, the whole time Alexander`s body decomposing in a damp shower stall.
Bombshell tonight. In the last hours, testimony reveals 27-year-old Jodi Arias has wild sex all day with Travis Alexander, even photographing the whole thing, then within minutes slashes his throat.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A digital camera that was found inside of the washing machine.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What was the condition of the camera?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was not able to find any items saved to the internal memory of the camera, 52224, 52236, 52324.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They found this camera, and you know, it`s pretty much ruined. And we didn`t know why.
JODI ARIAS, CHARGED WITH MURDER: Oh.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When it snapped this photograph, was it right side up or was it upside-down?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was upside-down.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This area down here, can you tell what that is?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stain, it looks like blood.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you ever shot a .25 auto?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you ever touched it?
ARIAS: The one that was stolen? I`ve never seen it.
It was, like, a .25-caliber gun.
My grandpa said it looks like a toy gun. I don`t know what a .25 looks like.
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. In the last hours, then 27-year-old Jodi Arias has wild sex all day with Travis Alexander, photographing the whole thing, and then within just minutes, slashes his throat. That is what is coming out in court under oath.
We are live and taking your calls. We are there in Mesa, Arizona, at the Phoenix courthouse. And let me warn you that some of these photos are graphic. To say that they`re naked photos doesn`t do it justice.
I`ve got them all right here. I`ve looked at them all. They`re not sexy, all right? Let me just put that out there to start with. They`re body parts. They`re just body parts. A couple of times, you see Arias`s face, and she`s absolutely not doing anything under duress, the way this looks. I don`t really know what to make of them except what they prove to me.
Jean Casarez is joining us there at the courthouse. You know, Jean, if the date and timestamp is to be believed on this series of photos, there`s no way that they can have sex all day, even lounging around taking pictures of themselves and their body parts with big smiles on their faces -- you know what? I`m happy for them. I`m not the church lady. I don`t care what they do. All I care about is how this fits into a felony.
Literally, in less than 90 seconds from taking photos of Travis Alexander naked in the shower, suddenly she`s killing him. There`s no time for him to have attacked her. And what, did he beat her up in the shower stall? Because this is all happening with him taking a shower, and boom, suddenly, he`s dead. There`s no time for a deadly attack on his part.
JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION": That`s right. And so the question is, if they`re this happy couple on her part, why does she have a gun and why does she have a knife so close at hand?
And really, that final, final photo of Travis Alexander alive is the critical one because we saw him in the courtroom as he`s sitting in the shower. And as prosecutors said, he was at his most vulnerable, right then, when he was sitting in the shower, right before he was attacked.
GRACE: Well, I`ve got a theory. Bonnie Druker also joining us at the courthouse with Jean Casarez and Beth Karas.
Bonnie, she had gone for this marathon sex event with him. It should be in the Olympics. They go at it all day long, taking pictures of themselves. You know what? Fine.
Then, I guarantee you, she says, So now what do you think, Travis? You still going to go to Cancun with that other woman? And he says, Yes, and it`s bring out the gun. That`s what happened. That`s what I think, Bonnie.
BONNIE DRUKER, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: No, I agree. I mean, these pictures are so graphic, Nancy. And we saw the pictures on a massive jumbo screen. There really wasn`t anything left to the imagination. Seriously, you could use some of these pictures in medical school to learn about women`s anatomy. But I agree with you, Nancy. Absolutely.
GRACE: And men`s. And men`s. And OK, you know what? Let me warn everybody these are graphic. If your children are watching, you may not want that. They`re not graphic violence-wise, but they are graphic in that they are essentially body parts. And you know, if this is what Arias thinks is sexy, you know what? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, I`ll just say that.
But what is so essential about this, Matt Zarrell, is the timing. Explain that.
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Yes, Nancy. This all occurred -- the photos that we`re seeing now, these nude photo shots were all taken at about 1:42 to 1:47 PM in the afternoon. Less than four hours later, Travis Alexander is dead in his shower.
And one thing I wanted to point out to you, Nancy. We saw the photo of Travis in the shower. Forty-four seconds later is when we see the photo of the ceiling. That is when prosecutors say he had already been stabbed in the heart.
GRACE: It looks like right there she`s trying to get a shot of his biceps and of his muscles. And then the timeline is what is so critical. Within seconds, he`s shot -- he`s dead. He`s dead. His dead body is being dragged around on the carpet, according to the blood smearing and the blood splatter marks that we can make out.
Not only that, Arias caught on tape lying through her teeth. Liz, cue me up her interview with police. Now, we know, do we not, Jean Casarez, that she stole her grandfather`s gun, his .25, from his home, and that Travis Alexander is shot with a .25?
CASAREZ: You know, Nancy, as you always say, there are no coincidences in criminal law. It is a question of fact for the jury that they heard today for the first time all about that burglary. And lo and behold, there were four guns in the gun cabinet, and only one was taken by the burglar. It was the .25-caliber.
GRACE: Take a listen to Arias caught on tape.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You guys reported a gun stolen, a .25 auto. Just happens to be the same caliber as the weapon used to kill him.
ARIAS: A .25 auto was used to kill Travis?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, along with the multiple stab wounds.
ARIAS: Did you find the gun? Maybe that would...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jodi, we`re just playing games here. That gun was in your possession. When did you report it stolen?
ARIAS: I didn`t even know that there were guns until my grandparents reported it stolen the day their house was broken into.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When was that?
ARIAS: I don`t remember. It was a few months ago maybe.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did you do with the gun?
ARIAS: I don`t have a gun.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you ever shot that .25 auto?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you ever touched it?
ARIAS: The one that was stolen? I`ve never seen it. My grandpa said it looks like a toy gun. I don`t know what a .25 looks like.
GRACE: Well, we also know that she is confessing that she killed him but is saying that it is in self-defense. He`s shot with a .25. So everything she is saying right here is a lie, based on her own confession, because she changed her story three times.
First, she wasn`t there in the home when Travis Alexander was killed. Two, that she was there but that a man and a woman dressed in black ninja- style outfits came in and murdered him, and then she feared for her own life and didn`t call police. And then the third story is that she killed Alexander in self-defense.
Joining me in just a moment is a very special guest, friend and colleague of Travis`s, who socialized with Arias, who went on that Cancun trip. He has agreed to take your calls along with me. Jacob Mefford is joining us.
But I want to go out to the lines right now. Jamie in Georgia, what`s your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy.
GRACE: Hey, love.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just wanted to say, OK, Jodi is saying Travis attacked her in the bathroom after she dropped his camera, and in self- defense, she stabbed and killed him. My question is, was the knife conveniently laying on the bathroom sink? Because, if it was and he was attacking her, she wouldn`t have had time -- she`d have had to get away from him. So where was the knife, just on her, in her pocket?
GRACE: Good question. Bonnie Druker, where did she say -- when she said this was self-defense, when it was on that story, where did she say the knife came from?
DRUKER: I don`t think she`s said anything about the knife at this point. It`s just such an unbelievable story, Nancy. You look at these pictures, you look at Travis Alexander. I mean, this guy was taking a shower. His eyes were closed. His mouth was closed. The water was coming down. I mean, it is an unbelievable story, Nancy.
GRACE: Yes, there was no attack, Bonnie. I get it. I agree with you.
Let`s go out now to Jacob Mefford, a very dear friend and colleague of Travis Alexander`s. Jacob, thanks for being with us. I think I`ve got Jacob with me. Jacob, can you hear me, dear?
OK, let me know, Liz, when you get Jacob up so he can hear the question I`m going to throw to him.
Out to Kim in Louisiana. Hi, Kim. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hey, I have two questions.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One, they said she was left-handed, so she was obviously stabbing him with the knife with the left. And I think she had the camera in her right and was beating him with the camera as she was stabbing him. If you take the camera and hit, your thumb would probably click it, click it, click it, and that could be how those pictures came after she killed him or during the murder.
GRACE: OK, let`s go to Paul Penzone, former sergeant with Phoenix PD. He`s joining me there at the courthouse. Paul, you`ve seen your share of homicide scenes. What do you make of that?
PAUL PENZONE, FORMER SERGEANT, PHOENIX PD: It`s definitely a possibility. You know, what we see here is he`s in a vulnerable position. She takes advantage of that when she`s attacking him.
And one of the things that I noticed is when she has -- when she`s been interviewed, her statements relative to things that could be incriminating, she`s very sure, very methodical. When she talks about other unrelated details, she goes extreme into her details to try to really be cooperative with the investigator.
ARIAS: He would send me text messages late at night saying, Hey, I`m getting sleepy, dot, dot, dot.
And that became, like, our code word for, I`m falling asleep. You can come over now and then sneak into my room. I`m, like, yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People were involved in some sort of sexual activity.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Exhibit 166 -- what is this right here?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It looks like a bottle of personal KY, I believe, or some lubricant.
ARIAS: We were intimate, but I wouldn`t say romantic.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "I think I was little more than a dildo with a heartbeat to you."
ARIAS: The evidence is very compelling.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I had an immediate suspicion it was Jodi who had done this.
ARIAS: No, I had no part in it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How many steps -- let`s talk about what image. How many steps would a person have to take in order to -- you can take the camera out -- to actually delete an image from that camera?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It would be a five-step process.
GRACE: Welcome back, everybody. With me, a longtime friend of Travis Alexander`s, Jacob Mefford. He actually went on that Cancun trip, the one that Alexander didn`t make because he was dead. Jacob, thanks for being with us.
JACOB MEFFORD, FRIEND AND COLLEAGUE OF VICTIM: Thank you.
GRACE: Jacob, you went on the Cancun trip. You had socialized with Arias in the past. Take it from the beginning. When did you first meet her, and what was your impression?
MEFFORD: Well, back in the MySpace days, before Facebook, my wife had -- was friends with Travis and was kind of searching through some comments, and saw a comment by Jodi and immediately pulled up her profile on MySpace and was completely creeped out about what she saw.
There was a lot of, like, witchcraft things and just really creepy stuff that just...
GRACE: Oh, whoa. Wait, wait, wait...
MEFFORD: ... you wouldn`t see on an average...
GRACE: ... wait, wait, whoa. Didn`t know this. You`re going to have to run that by me again. Witchcraft? What? Was this when she was already dating Travis?
MEFFORD: Yes, apparently -- I didn`t know at the time that she had. They had just met in Vegas, maybe a month or a couple weeks before. But she had witchcraft listed on her MySpace. She had a bunch of different, you know, freaky things on her MySpace page. And my wife immediately...
GRACE: What other freaky things? Just curious.
MEFFORD: Well, for one, her profile picture was that one where she`s holding, you know, like, a Jack-o`-lantern or a candle under her face, and she`s, like, illuminated all spooky. You know this was her -- this was how she...
GRACE: I`ve seen that.
MEFFORD: ... portrayed herself to the world.
GRACE: Liz, see if you can dig that up. I got to see that. OK, wait, wait, wait. I`m just hearing this for the first time, Jake. And let me just absorb this. So are you Mormon, also?
MEFFORD: No, ma`am.
GRACE: Because everybody that I`ve interviewed that had been friends with Travis were devout Mormons, and I doubt they`d take very kindly to the MySpace page being filled with witchcraft and a speaky (ph) creepy "Chuckie" pictures. Go ahead.
MEFFORD: Yes, it was -- anyway, my -- yes, even not being Mormon, it creeped me out. But my wife brought -- you know, said, Hey, come over here and take a look at this picture. And as soon as I saw it, it creeped me out. And I thought, Man, that girl is weird. I wonder why he`s friends with her.
GRACE: OK, just hearing about it -- I`m not Mormon, I`m Christian. If I saw where somebody had witchcraft and those kinds of pictures on their MySpace -- but I`m very surprised she would leave that on there. So what happened then?
MEFFORD: Well, it was probably less than a week later -- I live in southern California, which was where Jodi was living at the time. And Travis Alexander was actually coming in to be a guest speaker at one of our business events.
And Travis came walking through the door -- and he and I had been close friends for a lot of years, so we were, you know, giving each other a hug and high-five and, How`re you doing, bro, things like that, you know, just exchanging, you know, welcomes.
And she came walking through the door -- and the one thing about Jodi is that -- from the get-go that freaked me out, when she walked through -- this is the first time I ever saw Jodi in person outside of her MySpace page. And when she walked through the door, my internal alarms went off like nobody`s business. I mean, it was just like -- it was creepy. She just had this very funky energy about her.
And of course, she`s a decent-looking woman, so it caught Travis`s eye. And I immediately said, Travis, you need to stay away from her. I don`t know what it is, but she is weird. There`s something creepy. I looked at her MySpace page and there`s just -- she`s not for you, my man. And I had no clue...
GRACE: What did he say?
MEFFORD: ... that they had actually dated. He immediately kind of got almost a little defensive, you know, like, was maybe a little taken back that I would be so abrupt. And for those that know me know I kind of wear my heart on my sleeve, but I said -- and he said, Well, why do you feel that way?
And I said, Well, this MySpace page and the energy I`m feeling is just -- is just off. Well, literally less than a couple minutes later, they embraced and she gave him a kiss on the cheek. And then I had realized, OK, well, you guys obviously know each other, and I didn`t know that.
So at that point, foot in mouth, I couldn`t hide it. I just walked up to him after they had left each other and I said, Well, at least -- you know, foot in mouth, my man, you know? You`re my friend. At least you know where this friend stands. So I don`t like her. I don`t think she`s for you.
GRACE: You know what, what`s interesting, Jacob? I feel that all through life, God gives us big warnings, you know, big signs, if we can just have ears to hear and eyes to see.
I`m just trying to figure -- I`m curious. This has nothing to do with guilt or innocence, but I`m curious, naturally curious. What was it -- try to remember that moment when she walked through that door, and as you said, alarm bells went off? What did you see? What was it about her? What was it that made you just know instinctively something was very wrong?
MEFFORD: Well, number one, when you look into Jodi`s eyes, it`s like you`re staring into empty spaces. It`s -- it`s -- there`s no substance there. It`s almost like she doesn`t have a soul. And she`s always been that way.
And the other thing that -- she has a very provocative energy. You know, everybody`s displaying at -- like, Travis is this sexual deviant? Well, she had a very provocative energy and she used her looks and she used that energy, especially with men in order to -- you know, to seek favor in them. So for me, what I felt, as soon as she walked through the door, I`m -- I`ll just -- I`m -- can you hear me?
GRACE: Yes, go ahead.
MEFFORD: Oh, OK, sorry. Anyway, when she came through the door, I -- that`s -- this energy that I caught was -- I`m, like, This isn`t a bar and I don`t know what this floozy`s doing here, but this is a -- this is a professional environment, and I can`t believe that she`s bringing this energy in there. And again, just that stare and the fact that she was overly nice. And she knew to -- you know, she was very mysterious. You didn`t really know Jodi. She would never tell you about herself. She...
GRACE: With me, Travis Alexander`s dear friend, Jacob Mefford. Jacob, what was it you were just saying?
MEFFORD: I was just basically saying the first time I`d ever met Jodi, when she walked through the door, she just had a very provocative, very inappropriate energy.
And she knew very much to not talk about herself. She was very mysterious. She knew, to win somebody over, that you should get them to talk about themselves, and she was really good at asking questions about you and keeping it on you. In fact, the only thing I really ever knew about Jodi was that she grew up in California and that she liked photography.
GRACE: You know what`s interesting? You mentioned that Travis is being painted as some abuser and a sex deviant. You knew him for years, and I think that when you know somebody for years, you pick up on that, even offhand comments they might say to suggest their leanings.
Did you have any idea, any suggestion that he`s anything like what Arias is portraying him to be?
MEFFORD: Absolutely not. And it enrages me because Travis was one of the softest, most genuine people that I`ve ever met. I mean, he was an amazing human being, and he loved people. And you know, it`s one thing to butcher him, but now you`re trying to take away his legacy. It`s just killing me.
ARIAS: (INAUDIBLE) I was taking a road trip that week. I wasn`t going to Arizona, I was going to Utah.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: June 2, 2008, 8:04 AM.
ARIAS: I stopped in Redding at the airport to rent a car.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: By 7:32 PM, Arias is in Lodi, California, stopping at a McDonald`s for a large fry and a bottle of water.
June 3, just after 10:00 AM, Arias makes three deposits in two separate bank accounts at Washington Mutual in Monterey, California. By 8:31 PM, Arias is in Pasadena, California. She stops by CVS pharmacy, followed by an 8:41 visit to a Pasadena Starbucks.
JODI ARIAS, ACCUSED OF KILLING TRAVIS ALEXANDER: I left Starbucks and was talking to him.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: June 4th Arias makes a 3:00 to 4:00 a.m. arrival at Travis Alexander`s home in Mesa, Arizona.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So you were on the road at that time?
ARIAS: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: At 5:31 p.m., Arias attacks and kills Travis Alexander.
ARIAS: I felt so helpless because I wasn`t there.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: At 10:30 p.m. that night, Arias calls her new love interest Ryan Burns.
RYAN BURNS, FORMER LOVER OF JODI ARIAS, TESTIFIED IN COURT: Then she got tired and so she fell asleep.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: June 5th, Arias arrives at Ryan Burns` home in West Jordan, Utah, between 10:00 and 11:00 a.m. June 6th, Arias leaves Burns` home between midnight and 1:00 a.m.
BURNS: We kissed probably many times.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Arias makes two purchases around 4:00 a.m. from a gas station in Salt Lake City, Utah. June 6th, 10:38 a.m., Arias makes two purchases at an In-n-Out Burger at Sparks, Nevada. After visiting a 7-Eleven.
ARIAS: I went through Vegas.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: June 7th, 12:20 p.m. Arias purchases more fuel out of Valero in Redding, California, and returns her rental car to Budget. Arriving nearly three hours late and after traveling more than 2800 miles.
NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST: We are live and taking your calls. In the last hours in court a series of X-rated photos. I`ve got to tell you, they are not sexy, people. They are basically body parts. They`re XXX rated. I`m going to show them to you again in a moment. I`m going to warn you first before we show them. But what all of this, including the time line we just laid out for you, shows that this woman was not insane. She was not beside herself and that this was not self-defense.
Unleash the lawyers. Christopher Amolsch, a defense attorney in Washington, D.C., Bradford Cohen, defense attorney, Miami.
Bradford, how can this possibly be self-defense? I mean, you`ve got her taking naked photos of him, flexing his biceps in the shower after a marathon day of sex and then literally in less than 50 seconds it`s on. She`s killing him.
BRADFORD COHEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes -- no -- I think that`s -- it`s kind of an idiotic defense. I think the better defense was, what you stated earlier in the show, is that she asked him a question. He answered her with, I`m still going to Cancun with some other girl and it`s a crime of passion. Even that would have been a large stretch, but at least it wouldn`t have turned the jury off as much as a self-defense case where the individual is stabbed 27 times and shot once or 29 times and shot once.
So I think the better defense would have been a mitigating defense where you would have said, hey listen, this was a crime of passion. It should be a manslaughter, not a first-degree murder and you should be considering it that and so you take the death penalty off the table. What they`re doing, though, and putting this forth, I don`t think a jury is going to buy it at all.
GRACE: Bradford, that`s borderline brilliant because --
COHEN: Hey, all right. Now we`re talking.
GRACE: I think that it is truthful. I do think that that is what happened. The problem, the kicker is, though, that she brought the gun in with her.
COHEN: Right.
GRACE: And went to the shower with the knife, so she was prepared to be angry.
COHEN: Correct.
GRACE: To be passionate, and the killing committed. So you could date that premeditation back to the time she stole the gun.
COHEN: That`s the problem.
GRACE: But I mean the truth -- yes. That`s the problem with it. But, even so, it`s still, I think, would have been the best defense.
COHEN: Correct.
GRACE: But the bottom line, Christopher Amolsch, is they`re stuck with self-defense because that was her third story so they`re kind of stuck with it. There`s nothing they can do about it.
CHRISTOPHER AMOLSCH, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, they could change it again. I mean she`s shown that she`s willing to change stories as she goes along. You know -- you know, so I don`t know why they couldn`t change it now. They`re going to have to explain the gun. There`s no -- there`s no way the gun gets there by accident unless she stole it for some other reasons. So that makes even a second-degree or a manslaughter charge even less likely.
GRACE: We are taking your calls. Out to Kitty in Louisiana. Hi, dear. What`s your question?
KITTY, CALLER FROM LOUISIANA: Hi, Nancy. I have a masters in psychology and I was wondering, I think she is bipolar or psychopath. My question is, does she have a past violence or mentally ill diagnosis or drug addiction diagnosis or personality disorder?
GRACE: Good question. Jean Casarez, anything like that in her history?
JEAN CASAREZ, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": The only thing, and one -- in the I interrogation, custodial interrogation, she`s asked about that and she said that she had a breakdown once and she said it was because of a guy, and she describes what happened and how she went in her room and she just had that breakdown. So she does admit it.
GRACE: Going in your room and having a good cry is not, I don`t think, Patricia Saunders, going to equal a serious break with reality, a psychotic break.
PATRICIA SAUNDERS, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Absolutely not. In fact, it`s perfectly normal. In no way is this woman mentally ill. She may have a personality disorder. She may have some psychopathic features. But what`s most striking to me is what the gentleman said about her dead eyes. Because that emptiness usually goes along with being a predator.
GRACE: You know what`s weird, Dr. Patricia? As I was listening to Jacob Mefford and folks turn exactly what you said.
Hey, Liz, put Jacob up in the middle of us if you can. He said something about looking into her eyes, you see absolutely nothing, no soul, this is very bizarrely coincidental but one of the very first friends of his that I spoke with said the same thing. It`s like you`re looking into the black hole. It`s just -- there`s -- it`s vacant.
What does that mean, Patricia?
SAUNDERS: Well, the -- aside from the eyes of a predator, it usually implies that this is a person who has little or no capacity to connect with other people, to feel empathy or even make a genuine attachment to other people. They use other people. The eyes are the windows of the soul. And this is a soulless woman.
GRACE: I want to go back to Matt Zarrell. I want to go through what exactly happened in court today. How is it that the prosecutor threw the digital camera on the floor in front of the jury?
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE STAFFER, COVERING STORY: Yes, Nancy. In fact, on redirect examination of the -- of the Mesa PD tech who examined the camera, Martinez, the prosecutor, actually dropped the camera on the floor to indicate that it -- and ask if this took a full 45 seconds implying that there were 44 seconds between the time that Travis Alexander was alive and the next photo of the ceiling where they believe he was already gravely injured, and bleeding and fighting for his life.
GRACE: So, Matt, what you`re saying is, they were arguing right there by throwing the camera down the same thing that we were saying earlier going through the time stamps on these photos is there`s no time for an attack on his part.
ZARRELL: Exactly, Nancy.
GRACE: Straight back out to Phoenix. Standing by with Jean Casarez, Bonnie Druker and Matt Zarrell, now Beth Karas coming out of the courthouse.
Beth, what happened today?
BETH KARAS, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, IN SESSION: Nancy, jurors have just listened to Jodi Arias` statement to Detective Flores the day she was arrested. A big chunk of it where he confronts her with all kinds of evidence and he says, Jodi, it`s over. We have you there. We have your hair with his blood on it. We have your palm print. A bloody palm print mixed with his blood. It`s over. All I want to know is why you did this.
And she continued to maintain, in this videotaped statement, she did not do it. And at one point, Nancy, she said, if I hurt Travis, I would beg for the death penalty. Well, that, of course, is exactly what the state is seeking.
GRACE: You know, that`s ironic that she said that, Beth. "I would beg for the death penalty." Those words are certainly going to come back to haunt her.
Beth, is the jury having any reactions? Are you going to give me what you`ve given me for many, many years now -- I feel it coming.
They`re very studious and they`re very alert and they were taking notes.
KARAS: Yes. Yes, I can give you that, Nancy. But also, I can tell you that a couple jurors in the back row were actually, like, leaning forward in their seats because there`s a couple of monitors around the courtroom and this audio is playing so they`re watching the screen and it`s just a lockdown shot at the police station and camera is up high and is looking down at Jodi at the table. You can`t even really see the detective and the audio is really good but some jurors were leaning forward.
But beyond that really I don`t see anything. Jodi was -- had her head turned, sometimes she was crying, because those photos from the camera, the deleted photos that were restored were also shown in open court and she was crying during that. Her mother -- it`s her mother or her mother`s twin --
GRACE: Whoa, wait a minute. Wait a minute.
KARAS: Sitting in court today also cried.
GRACE: She cried at a picture of her own vagina? That made her cry?
KARAS: Well, it was the pictures of -- those are pictures of Travis. Those last 19 or so photos of him alive. Yes, she -- she turns her head away.
GRACE: You know, that`s an interesting point, Jean Casarez, that a lot of photos were deleted, which could show a guilty conscience. And I still don`t understand how she managed to get the digicam in the washer and leave it in there. Maybe she actually thought that would ruin it. But which ones were deleted?
CASAREZ: They didn`t know. They could not differentiate which ones were deleted and which ones were not. At least the detective on the stand couldn`t remember, but it was a five-step process to delete a photo. And he went through that. So it was quite entailed if you wanted to delete them.
GRACE: You know what`s interesting about that, Beth Karas, is now, of course, like, say you have a BlackBerry or a digital camera, if you continue to push buttons, you know, it will have an effect. But I find it very hard to believe that a series of photos each time you go through a five-step process on each photo then the next photo then the next photo, and delete these which turn out to be bombshell evidence in the courtroom. Photos.
KARAS: Right. And some of the photos, though, the testimony at the end was, if they were deleted sort of in a group it wouldn`t be quite five steps per photo. It might be eight instead of 10. But that`s if they were being deleted in a group. So who knows how it was done. But they were able to determine that some of the pictures had been deleted and they were the ones of Travis in the shower alive and then the inadvertent or accidental photos, three of them, when the state says the attack was occurring --
GRACE: Hey, you know what else, Beth?
KARAS: And also the sexy photos earlier.
GRACE: I like this guy on the stand.
KARAS: Yes.
GRACE: He`s very, very believable. He`s calm. He`s methodical. He`s likeable. That`s very important for a jury to like the witness on the stand. Does that make a difference evidentiary? No, it doesn`t, but a jury is more receptive to a witness if they can understand. They like his demeanor.
Hold on, Beth, one sec. Ben Levitan is joining me, telecommunications expert on Raleigh.
Ben, what does it take? What`s this five-step process? Can you give it to me in a nutshell how to delete these photos and why putting them through the rinse cycle would not ruin them?
BEN LEVITAN, TELECOMMUNICATIONS EXPERT: Well, it`s two good points, Nancy. We`ve seen this -- I`ve seen this all the time in trials where someone has intentionally deleted something and claimed it was accidental. When you go through these steps like -- if you were to delete something from your BlackBerry, it would force you to type out the word BlackBerry three times before you could do something. So when I -- when I see something has been deleted and someone claims it`s accidental, I don`t believe it.
On your second point, throwing an electronic device into the washing machine to try to destroy it is pretty naive. Most of our electronics are made of plastic and glass and pretty much if it doesn`t have power on it, you`re not going to be able to destroy anything. If you drop your -- you know, if someone spills coffee on your laptop and you take out the battery immediately, your computer is going to be all right.
GRACE: Yes. I get it. I get it.
Out to the lines, Donna, Indiana. Hi, Donna. What`s your question?
DONNA, CALLER FROM INDIANA: Hi, Nancy. I am just wondering, you know, people are comparing this trial to the Casey Anthony trial, and I am just hoping that her attorney, her female attorney, is not coddling her or, you know, comforting her like we saw in the Casey Anthony trial because that was one of my hugest pet peeves knowing that they`re guilty and -- so that`s my question, thank you.
GRACE: Yes, got you. Let`s go back to the reporters that have been in court all day.
Is that happening, Beth Karas? Is the defense attorney kind of coddling and kind of snuggling up against and touching and all that on Jodi Arias?
KARAS: No. No. I don`t see any of that in the courtroom. No. None of the attorneys are putting their arm around her, around her chair. I mean, Jennifer Wilmont does sit next to Jodi Arias and they talk and Jodi appears to be maybe writing something down and showing her and they`ll speak, but I don`t see anything like coddling. But I don`t know what happens behind closed doors outside of the courtroom.
GRACE: To Jacob Mefford, joining us. This is a very dear friend of Travis Alexander.
Jacob, you went on that Cancun trip?
JACOB MEFFORD, FRIEND AND COLLEAGUE OF VICTIM, SOCIALIZED WITH JODI ARIAS: Yes, I did.
GRACE: Now I understand that Travis Alexander had really been looking forward to going and he was taking a new friend that happened to be a woman with him, correct?
MEFFORD: Yes.
GRACE: Tell me his thoughts on the Cancun trip? I believe this was a woman who he was interested in, but it had not turned romantic yet?
MEFFORD: Yes. I hadn`t met her yet, so we -- we were actually excited that he was bringing somebody else besides Jodi because that meant the end of the Jodi days, is what we were hoping.
GRACE: Now why do you say that? What did the other friends say? And what -- was Travis concerned about what was going to happen when Jodi found out about the trip and the woman?
MEFFORD: I`m not sure. But we do know, you know, towards the end looking back on it, we -- you know, I think that he started to realize he was definitely in over his head and he really didn`t know how to get completely away from Jodi.
GRACE: Why do you say that aside from obviously her following him on dates with other women, slashing his tires twice, breaking into his e-mail account and his bank account? Those are pretty good signals that something is wrong.
MEFFORD: Well, she had this ability to disconnect, so I`m sure that, you know, because he sound logic and being in touch with reality and her not, you know, when he got around her, I mean, we`d have instances where we`d be like, Jodi, you`re not welcome here. And she would stay -- like, stare at you with a blank face like it didn`t even happen.
GRACE: You actually told her the words, you are not welcome here?
MEFFORD: Well, one instance with my wife and a friend she came over to our house. You`re probably going to hear about this at one point but she just showed up at a friend of ours house out of nowhere one day. And was like, I don`t know why you guys don`t like us. And, you know, they proceeded to talk for 20 minutes, and our friend was brutally honest with her why we didn`t think she was right for Travis or why we didn`t like her.
And then instead of -- like, she basically told her, you`re not welcome in my home, I don`t want to see you again, and instead of walking out the door like a normal person that would understand, OK, I`m not welcome here anymore, she walked in with a blank stare and sat at the kitchen table for about another 15 minutes silently while my wife was actually making some lunch for my friend`s kids, and our friend was so distraught she went into the other room and, you know, was very angry and she came back about 10 minutes later. And anyway, she finally left, but it was just awkward.
GRACE: Jacob Mefford, what were your friend and your wife, what were they telling her as to why they didn`t like her? What was wrong between her and Travis?
MEFFORD: Well, number one, she was -- she had -- remember I told you she had this very provocative energy. You know, she was a predator. That one person said she was a predator. Well, we pointed that out, that she would use this sexual energy to seek favor in mostly men because, of course, she being a good-looking woman, they would fall prey to it if she could find one.
And we knew that it was inappropriate. Number one, you know, besides her being weird and the inappropriateness and just her awkwardness and all that, it was the fact that we knew that she was being over the top flirtatious with other men in our own company. We`re like, well, listen, if you think you`re right for Travis --
GRACE: OK. Now I get why all the other women did not want her coming over. You just made it crystal clear.
Joe in Florida, what`s your question?
JOE, CALLER FROM FLORIDA: Hey there, Nancy. I have a comment and a question. Who can really understand just how savage this killer is, and it becomes even more despicable watching her usually appear so serene and oblivious to the bloody murderous rage?
In my opinion, she is the perfect example of a Jekyll and Hyde person who is saying, I hate you, don`t leave me. It`s a perfect fit. What does your shrink think?
GRACE: We remember American hero, Air Force Staff Sergeant David Smith, 26, Mobile, Alabama. Purple Heart, Air Crew Flight Engineer badge, 14 Air medals. Loves photography, comics. Dreamed of publishing his own comic book. Mother Mildred, brothers Randy and Todd, sisters Tracy and Jamie. Fiance Megan.
David Smith, American hero.
To Dr. Michael Arnall, board certified forensic pathologist in Denver, you have studied the autopsy report. What does it say to you?
DR. MICHAEL ARNALL, BOARD CERTIFIED FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Well, the important features are that the gunshot wound to the head didn`t bleed. That`s why the doctor concluded that the gunshot wound occurred after this patient was dead, after there`s no blood pressure, after there`s no pulse.
In addition, there is a large number of cuts and stabs indicating there is probably a strong emotional relationship between the assailant and the decedent.
GRACE: Wow. And to you, Dr. Patricia Saunders, could you address Joe in Florida`s question?
SAUNDERS: I don`t think this is a Jekyll and Hyde. I think this is pure Miss Hyde. In order to I -- you know, I hate you, don`t leave me, you have to have an attachment to someone, and I don`t think this woman is capable of forming attachments. That everybody has such a dramatic, hateful, repulsed response to her. I think she`s more along the lines of a real psychopath.
" Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Moynihan
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Re: Travis Alexander of Mesa, AZ Found Murdered June 2008-Jodi Arias on Trial
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Jodi Arias: Slaying Timeline
Aired January 14, 2013 - 21:00 ET
DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, I`ll bring you the latest evidence in the Jodi Arias murder trial, including a timeline that shows Travis was alive during most of the attack and slaughter.
And pictures Jodi thought she had erased from her camera. What does this all mean? I will discuss with an expert.
DETECTIVE: There`s pictures of you laying on the bed in pigtails.
Let`s get started.
PINSKY: And welcome to the program. My co-host this week, Jillian Barberie Reynolds.
Jillian, thanks for joining us.
JILLIAN BARBARIE REYNOLDS, TV HOST: Of course.
PINKSY: It will be interesting tonight.
We have some more gruesome evidence in the Jodi Arias murder trial, including some x-rated pictures. You got a little load of them just before we came to the studio here.
Joining me discuss: criminal defense attorney Mark Eiglarsh from speaktomark.com; attorney and radio host, Lisa Wexler; Dr. Michelle Golland, clinical psychologist, and Dr. Bill Lloyd, who has performed over 500 autopsies.
And joining me from Arizona, "In Session`s" Beth Karas.
Beth, a lot of stuff going down in court today. Can you bring us up- to-date?
BETH KARAS, CORRESPONDENT, IN SESSION: Well, Dr. Drew, this was a big day for the state. The photos you just talked about, and not just the sexually explicit photos that placed Jodi Arias with Travis Alexander just hours before she killed him, and then the series of photos she took of him in the shower just minutes before she killed him, and then three photos the state said were taken inadvertently, accidentally, during the course of the killing.
So the jury saw all these photos, as well as the sexually explicit ones, and then they heard from Jodi Arias her interrogation tape, which was videotaped the day she was arrested. There is more to come tomorrow because she talked again the day after she was arrested with a different story.
But on this tape, the detective is saying, Jodi, it`s over, it`s over, as she continued to deny hurting Travis Alexander. He said, we have your blood mixed with his blood. It`s your palm print on the wall. It`s your hair with a root attachment, his blood on it on the floor.
It`s you in these photos on the day he was killed. Now, we know the time he was killed. We just want to know why.
She said, I didn`t hurt Travis. If I did, I would beg for the death penalty, which, of course, is what the state is asking here.
So at the point when court broke for the day, she was continuing to deny having anything to do with this.
PINSKY: We are actually going to take a look at that videotape a little bit later, and she may get the opportunity to beg for the death penalty, because she, Jillian, has admitted to killing him.
REYNOLDS: So, basically, she may get what she wants.
PINSKY: She may get what she wants. That`s a good point.
Thank you, Beth. We`ll check in with you tomorrow. I appreciate that.
What I want to do now is get into a timeline that HLN has put together of how Jodi Arias may have been killed -- excuse me, how she may have killed Travis Alexander. Now, the photos alongside of this timeline can get rather graphic, so a warning here.
So, let`s do this. Here we go. I`m going to bring Dr. Lloyd in to discuss this with me.
Dr. Lloyd, are you there?
DR. BILL LLOYD, HAS PERFORMED OVER 500 AUTOPSIES: Loud and clear. How are you, Drew?
PINSKY: Good. Nice to talk to you again. Let`s get back -- thank you. Oh, there you are, you`ve got a dummy and you have kitchen knives, as I understand, too.
REYNOLDS: Oh my.
LLOYD: Certainly do. We`re ready to rock.
PINSKY: All right. Fair enough. Let us go first to that timeline, that animation we were starting to show you here. Let me talk you guys through it, and, Doctor, you help me out.
Here he is alive -- go ahead.
LLOYD: Clearly, he`s alive in the shower. That`s probably where the back stabs were, the defensive injuries to the hands and the big blow to the heart.
So, now, he`s been stabbed in the heart. He`s bleeding like crazy. He leaves the shower, trying to get help. He makes it on his own probably almost all the way to the bedroom.
It`s sometime along there when he collapsed and fell into an unconscious state.
PINSKY: Stop right there. Let`s show that again, the animation. That`s the first move from the bathroom.
Show it again now. You were saying she stabbed him in the back and the chest, got one of the main arteries. Here we go. Stabbed in the chest. He`s probably --
LLOYD: He lacerated his vena cava in the chest.
PINSKY: He`s probably right in the way.
LLOYD: Out of the shower, out of the bathroom, heading for the bedroom. Massive blood loss. Collapses, falls on his back and makes himself pray for that fatal wound that went to the neck.
PINSKY: OK. Stop there.
LLOYD: At this point, he`s still outside the bathroom.
PINSKY: Stop there. So, the slash in the neck, let`s talk about that. Bring your knives out for me. What kind of knife do you think hit him in the neck?
LLOYD: The structures that were hit, the vocal cords and the two major vessels in the neck had to have been deep enough. Now, this is more important than the length of the knife, Drew. You have very strong neck muscles, as you know, the strap muscles that protect these vital structures. You do not voluntarily let somebody sever your jugular vein or your carotid artery.
So he had to have been already unconscious or near death at the time when she extended his neck in order to deliver that fatal wound to the neck underneath the jawbone.
PINSKY: Jillian?
REYNOLDS: You can only hope he was unconscious at that point because it`s so disgusting to think about what he may have been, you know, consciously aware of. And my other question is, she went through this whole diatribe about, you know, this was -- you know, he was the guy that kind of attacked me.
PINSKY: Yes.
REYNOLDS: This is a defensive thing that I`m doing --
PINSKY: Is it possible that she`s going to say that he chased me into the bedroom and I just slashed at him and I happened to get his neck?
REYNOLDS: But even if she did, and as a woman, I will say this. If you`ve been angry at a man, that is not -- that is premeditated. Twenty- nine times to stab somebody? That`s not defensive.
PINSKY: Right.
REYNOLDS: That`s overboard, that`s gruesome. That`s a complete -- you know, premeditated.
LLOYD: I also had that same theory though. I share that same theory that she was -- understanding that I just killed this guy, I`ve got to create a scenario that looks like three other people killed him as well, so I`m going to kill him here, I`m going to kill him here and then I`m going to shoot him in the head as well.
REYNOLDS: Wait --
LLOYD: I think that`s a good possibility.
REYNOLDS: That story came up -- that was one of the stories.
PINSKY: One of the stories, yes.
REYNOLDS: If I`m attacked, I`m calling the police right away. As soon as it happens, I`m calling the cops. That didn`t happen. You know, all of her stories are a joke.
PINSKY: Let`s go back to the animation. We get the neck wound when he`s down in the bedroom. Can we show that animation? OK, there he is.
LLOYD: He`s probably already unconscious, he`s probably very close to death, massive blood loss. Now, he`s stuck in the bedroom ready to die and she wants to deliver his body back into the bathroom, and that`s where the dragging takes place.
The coroner confirmed the presence of --
PINSKY: She takes him in, drags him in and shoots him in the head.
LLOYD: Gets him inside the bathroom and shoots him. And shots him -- the shot itself was not lethal. There was not much bleeding. Further indicating he was probably already dead, a central rule. If you`re bleeding, you`re still alive. He wasn`t bleeding at that point, and the autopsy showed very little hemorrhage in the head.
The bullet entered right above the brow, crossed into the frontal lobe of the brain, and then exited out through the maxillary sinus on the left side, but not much bleeding. I`ll tell you, Drew, if that was the only injury he sustained, he would have been able to escape. But the combination of the lethal stab wound to the chest and of course that incredible wound to the neck ended the story right there.
PINSKY: And now, she drags him further into the shower, sort of stuffs him in there and that`s that. So, we have the animation to show -- the end of the little, here we go, so here she is, she shoots him in the head --
LLOYD: That`s right. She delivers --
PINSKY: Then delivers him into the shower; is that right?
LLOYD: Delivers his remains all the way to the shower. And you notice in some of those shower photos, his right arm is above his head and it`s an open door. If someone is already dead, then their limbs are down, and when you`re dragging them, their limbs are down and they`re just tossed in.
The fact his arms were above his head suggests he may have had one last breath in him trying to protect himself before she walked out of that shower.
REYNOLDS: I know a lot of people on the defense as well were saying how a woman could do this to a man. But let me say, if you have the element of surprise, a butcher`s knife, a gun, this guy is in the shower. You`re at your most vulnerable when you`re naked.
He`s not expecting this. I mean, he probably knew she was a little on the cuckoo for cocoa puffs side but not to this extent. So, you know, is it possible she can continue killing a body that`s not fighting back?
LLOYD: A couple of points, don`t forget, she photographed before she stabbed him. During the charge in the commission of this murder, your adrenaline is running. Drew, you can talk about that. People in these crazy situations, they have superhuman strength.
REYNOLDS: She had sex before she killed him, so there`s a whole other aspect. That`s completely sick.
PINSKY: Which is bizarre, but people can lift small cars when they`re really charged up.
REYNOLDS: What about the photos?
PINSKY: We`re going to get into the photos, and we have both Jodi and Travis nude, so pay attention. And be careful --
REYNOLDS: I`m interested in the photos she mistakenly took while she murdered him. Forget the nude ones. The murder.
PINSKY: Absolutely. There`s stuff that`s on the timeline there. Plus, a videotape of Jodi saying she should get the death penalty, she would beg for it.
And later, a guest who says he has new information about the Steubenville teen rape case that no one else has. He`s going to share that with us.
Stay with us.
PINSKY: Welcome back.
Jillian Barberie Reynolds is my co-host this week.
Jurors saw a video today of Jodi Arias being interrogated by police just after Travis` death. Take a look at this.
DETECTIVE: I know you took pictures of him in the shower just before he died.
JODI ARIAS, ACCUSED MURDERER: I don`t think he would allow that.
DETECTIVE: And the camera actually took a couple of photos by accident during the time he was being killed.
ARIAS: Really?
DETECTIVE: Yes, Jodi, really.
ARIAS: If I`m found guilty, I don`t have a life. I`m not guilty, I didn`t hurt Travis. If I hurt Travis, if I killed Travis, I would beg for the death penalty.
PINSKY: We`re going to show you some of those photos in just a minute, but --
REYNOLDS: Interesting.
PINSKY: It is interesting.
REYNOLDS: Back and forth. If I killed him but I didn`t hurt him. But if I did, I deserve the death penalty.
PINSKY: I wonder if she`s really dissociative. I`d love to hear her voices in different situations.
REYNOLDS: Is that a sociopath?
PINSKY: It can be or somebody that`s so severely empty on the inside that they sort of adopt and adapt to whomever they`re around and sort of take on personalities.
REYNOLDS: Which could explain her obsession with him if he was interested in somebody else.
PINSKY: People that are of that empty can have what we call borderline rages. It could be really rough.
Mark Eiglarsh, what do you do if you`re defending a woman who says that on the tape that a jury hears?
MARK EIGLARSH, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Take a plea.
PINSKY: Right away.
EIGLARSH: Seriously.
PINSKY: So why is this being played out?
EIGLRASH: I mean, try to -- try to work this out, because winning is defined by doing everything you can to get her the best possible outcome, which in this case means, at a minimum, saving her life. When you`re running with this defense in an atrocious, heinous, cruel set of facts, what you`re doing is you are increasing the chances of actually getting the death penalty, because you`re trashing the victim.
I just don`t think it`s the strongest choice.
REYNOLDS: Also, you know, we`re saying why is this playing out? Isn`t this a case of shouldn`t -- the taxpayer dollars and why can`t we see a matter of --
PINSKY: Plea bargaining.
REYNOLDS: Plea bargaining, like you said, and it`s the lesser of all evils.
EIGLARSH: Well, she has to want to. She has to want to.
I have clients who don`t want to take anything. Listen, the state of mind of this girl is in question. Fortunately, no one has to prove motive or why she did this because there would be reasonable doubt all over the place. No one knows why.
But with that kind of mentality, I have a difficult job as a defense lawyer, assuming I`m representing her, because she doesn`t want to act reasonably, she doesn`t want necessarily take any offers, she probably loves the limelight, she loves this. It`s part of her, you know, whole 15 minutes, and I think it would be very difficult to defend someone like her.
PINSKY: Mark, I thought you were talking about Casey Anthony for a second there. I like the theory -- we used to call it social identity disorder. These are things that are sort of -- there is a lot of controversy in the mental health field whether that thing really exists.
I`ve seen cases like this where something like social identity disorder has played out. And they`re capable -- I mean, somebody with severe rages and provoked situations.
Lisa Wexler, I`m going to go to you.
LISA WEXLER, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST, WFAS-AM: Yes.
PINSKY: Why do you think there are so many mistrial attempts by the defense?
WEXLER: Well, I don`t know about the mistrial attempts, but I will tell you, Dr. Drew, as I`m watching this, I`m thinking of the Alfred Hitchcock movie "Psycho." I mean, really, except there is a man in the shower instead of a woman in the shower. It`s the most graphic depiction of a murder that I`ve seen in popular culture in a long time.
I agree with the defense counsel. The only thing to do here would be to beg her to take a plea, because the more we see of this case, the more we know that she should not stop go, she should be directly to jail, if not worse.
I can`t really think of something more dramatic in front of a jury that would justify a death penalty. I mean, after all, he was at his most vulnerable in the shower. What kind of self-defense? There is no evidence of self-defense whatsoever. None.
PINSKY: Let`s look at some of those photos that were in court today, and I warn you these things are explicit, so here we go. Let`s go these -- while we look at these photos, Michelle, I want to go to you.
DR. MICHELLE GOLLAND, PSY.D., CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Yes.
PINSKY: Do you believe -- Dr. Michelle Golland -- do you believe any of the theories I`m beginning to formulate here, that somebody who is capable of being sexually provocative flips on somebody else in that rage state when she thinks about being a jilted lover.
GOLLAND: Absolutely. Clearly, there is borderline features here. And the other thing that I want to point out is that she -- the thing that is important to look at, and this is not at all blaming the victim, but is also understanding what is it about people who also stay with and engage with someone who even their friends were not happy about and people -- you know, Drew, we know when we feel a personality disorder walk in the room, right?
PINSKY: Yes.
GOLLAND: And when I hear his friends talk about her and what they had been warning him about and not comfortable, that`s what it reminds me of. It reminds me of that moment where I`m like, OK, I can feel energetically the difference of where someone wants to fuse, where they just want to engulf you. And I think it`s a very dangerous endeavor.
We`ve seen this with other men that women have killed that were affairs and things of that nature, and I always say you have to be really careful who you bring in the bedroom.
PINSKY: Well, Dr. Golland, I want to break that down a little bit, Jillian, because you`re really talking about fatal attraction.
REYNOLDS: Absolutely.
PINSKY: And the public -- and people and this guy had his own trauma history. He was homeless and he had addictive parents, as I understand it. And so he sort of felt responsible. He probably took care of broken parents his whole life, or addicted trauma survivors himself.
REYNOLDS: Right.
PINSKY: And so, this woman comes into his life and takes advantage and does successfully fuse with him, that she can`t distinguish him and her anymore, they`re together.
REYNOLDS: Right.
PINSKY: I think we all kind of relate to that feeling. That she really gets in and when she tries to break away, she`s shattered. She can`t tolerate it.
REYNOLDS: And he puts up with more because he came from a broken past, so you`re probably willing to put up with more than -- as you were mentioning, his friends had seen, they were really uncomfortable with her.
PINSKY: That`s right. We`ll take a call here.
Amanda in Louisiana. Amanda, do you got a comment?
AMANDA, CALLER FROM LOUISIANA: Yes. I think the writing is on the wall literally. She had adopted his habit. She changed religions, her identity. In self-defense, why would she use two different weapons if it was self-defense?
PINSKY: Right. I mean, this whole idea -- yes, the gun --
REYNOLDS: The grandparents` gun, the knife, and the infliction of the wounds itself. That is not self-defense. That is absolute brutalizing somebody. That is torture and --
GOLLAND: It`s the classic case of, you know, if I can`t have you, nobody will have you.
PINSKY: Doctor, do you agree with all these theories?
EIGLARSH: Dr. Drew --
PINSKY: Mark, hang on a second. Dr. Lloyd, do you have any addition?
LLOYD: Yes, I certainly do. I wanted to go back to the point about the size of the weapons that you mentioned. You know, any sharp knife can puncture, but in order to kill this man, the weapon not only had to puncture but continue the task of severing vital structures like that vena cava, like the jugular vein, like the internal carotid.
It happened because she planned it. She photographed it. She sexed him up and then she knocked him off.
PINSKY: Next up, tape of Jodi Arias` friend who said that Jodi was always brightened up the room when she came in. What does she think about this woman that we`re just not seeing here?
And later on, has social media caused us to wrongly judge two high school teens accused of rape? We have someone who says he knows more than anybody, and it`s been reported wrong. We`re interviewing him later.
Stay with us.
PINSKY: Welcome back.
Jillian Barberie Reynolds joins us today as a co-host.
You were saying something kind of interesting.
REYNOLDS: Well, first of all, it`s interesting that women -- women are capable of pain of crimes, obviously, but what I`m interested in is some of the chyron, and we`re guilty here as well, that said beauty Jodi Arias. How about alleged butcher or not even alleged murderer Jodi Arias?
PINSKY: So, the fact that --
REYNOLDS: Yes, she`s OK looking, she`s lovely, you know? But is that even a factor that we should even be talking about?
PINSKY: It should be. But there`s something in there that people don`t -- somehow if you look a certain way, they don`t expect you to behave a certain way, something weird --
REYNOLDS: It is, but I know women are capable. I`m very good friends with Debra Tate whose sister is Sharon Tate, and I`ve been to those hearings with her as family support and to see these women now well into this --
PINSKY: The murderers.
REYNOLDS: The murderers. I`ve been to their hearings.
They were women not only were capable of murder, but a butchering of pregnant woman who was almost ready to give birth. So, women are definitely capable --
PINSKY: What Jillian is --
REYNOLDS: It`s just always bizarre that it`s a woman.
PINSKY: What Jillian is saying is women are evil. I think that`s what we`re agreeing upon here. Is that what you`re saying?
REYNOLDS: Most, a lot of them are. A lot of them are. Especially women in television, but that`s a whole other story.
PINSKY: Let`s go to -- let`s go to a quick call.
This is Veronica in Hawaii. Veronica, what have you got for me?
VERONICA, CALLER FROM HAWAII: Hey, I knew Jodi personally in Rancho Mirage, California. We worked together. She would be in the packing lot refusing to go to work because she couldn`t get him on the phone.
I said, Jodi, leave the boy alone. She goes, I can`t, Veronica. He`s the only man I want to marry. He`s the only man I want to have children with.
PINSKY: Veronica, when was this?
VERONICA: This was back in 2008. She worked at the restaurant for four or five months.
PINSKY: Did you notice anything peculiar about her? Is there anything you can tell us --
VERONICA: Every night. She had a flat affect. She was horrible at the job, but she got it because she was pretty.
And she -- and owners of the restaurant would say, I never want her at my table again. I would say, Jodi, what happened? And she`d say, nothing.
REYNOLDS: What restaurant was this because she lied and said she worked at a place called Margaritaville. There was no such place.
VERONICA: Bull. She worked at Bing Crosby`s in Rancho Mirage.
PINSKY: In Rancho Mirage, in the desert.
VERONICA: And she was living in a house, at Palm Desert Country Club. And she was trying to get me to buy this house for $300,000.
PINSKY: OK. Was she -- does she create chaos? Were she -- did you see any aggression? Was there anything about her that was --
VERONICA: No, Jodi does not show outwardly anything. Jodi stays at a flat affect. Jodi -- she would be telling me, I`ve got to drive to Arizona, Veronica. I`m going tonight after work. And I`d say --
PINSKY: Veronica, when you heard, were you shocked she was capable of something like this?
VERONICA: No, because she abused an animal, I know.
REYNOLDS: Oh, gosh. Well, a lot of Jeffrey Dahmers start with animals.
PINSKY: Tell me about. Again, we cannot confirm or deny what Veronica is telling us, but go ahead. Please tell us what you know.
VERONICA: OK. We had an employee there. He was getting there. His wife was allergic to the cat. He asked her to take the cat. But two weeks while they went on honeymoon, she told me where it`s at. She said, Veronica, I`m going to do it. So, she took the cat in.
After two weeks when the guy got back from his honeymoon, she came up to me and said, Veronica, when I went back to get the cat after two weeks - - I said, two weeks, what do you mean? She said, I left it in a dark room with enough food and water. A lot at her and I was about to strangle her right there. And I had a whole (INAUDIBLE).
And she said the cat was shaking horribly, Veronica. I guess I kind of felt bad. Oh!
REYNOLDS: Showing she`s obviously heartless. Are you watching the trial at all, Veronica?
VERONICA: Yes, ma`am.
REYNOLDS: And so, your thoughts are?
VERONICA: That`s Jodi. She won`t show you what`s going on in her. She won`t show you.
PINSKY: Did she ever sort of flip into different characters where you were sort of surprised by the sort of range where she almost seemed like somebody else?
VERONICA: No, because Jodi has flat affect.
PINSKY: She was flat.
VERONICA: She doesn`t show happiness or sadness or nervousness. She -- oh. My grandmother had a saying. Butter wouldn`t melt in her mouth.
PINSKY: I`m going to say, Dr. Golland, you know, one of the things about sociopaths is they don`t experience much anxiety. So --
GOLLAND: Exactly. That`s exactly what I was thinking.
PINSKY: If Veronica is telling us something accurate, that would sort of fit with the sociopath/psychopath spectrum.
All right. Veronica, I hope you`ll hold for me because I have no doubt I`ll have more questions for you.
Next up, I promise to show you a tape of Jodi`s friend who alleges a different side to Jodi. I`m going to have Veronica maybe ring in on what this other friend is saying.
Then, I`ve got a guest who knows more about the Steubenville rape than anyone else apparently. He`s an insider and he says he`s going to tell us a different story. That`s next.
PINSKY: We are back talking about the Jodi Arias trial with my co- host, Jillian Barberie Reynolds and our guests. Now, as I said, she`s got some supporters. I want to show you part of an in-session interview with her friend, Donavan Bering, talking about the Jodi she claims to know.
And I have Veronica -- as by the way, I`ve said before, I can`t confirm nor deny the veracity of what Veronica is telling us, but I want her to respond to this tape. Watch.
DONAVAN BERING, JODI ARIAS FAMILY FRIEND: I know Jodi well enough to know that if the situation could be taken back, it would be taken back. Jodi -- Jodi -- would not be in the situation she`s in if she could have helped it.
PINSKY: So, Veronica, there`s someone that claims she knows -- I`m going to have the whole team listen to the Veronica respond to this knows Jodi. What do you say to that little tape?
VOICE OF VERONICA, SAYS SHE KNEW JODI ARIAS: Well --
VERONICA: Well, anyone who feels bad about something, Dr. Drew, is going to fess up. OK? This little girl --
VERONICA: Boy, she`s going to try the best she can to get out of it. I don`t understand the mentality of it, doctor, but boy, I sure worked with her and I knew her. And what I see in her trial and that flat affect and her just holding it all in and just acting like nothing is wrong.
PINSKY: And Veronica, was anyone ever concerned about her? Did anybody get the willies? Did anybody --
VERONICA: Oh, yes. I had co-workers at the restaurant who said, Veronica, stay away from her. What are you talking about? She`s a pretty little girl -- oh no, Veronica, stay away from her. There`s nothing wrong with her. She doesn`t show emotion. She doesn`t get upset. She doesn`t cry. We are wait staff. We are emotional, we are passionate, and she had nothing.
JILLIAN BARBERIE REYNOLDS, TV HOST: I have a question here, Dr. Drew. You know, we`ve all had that friend that goes a little too far, calling the acts and you`re like easy. This looks a little obsessive --
PINSKY: Stalking behaviors.
REYNOLDS: Yes. And it`s just desperate behavior.
PINSKY: Yes.
REYNOLDS: Are you born with that? Is that something that, you know - -
PINSKY: No, you`re not. That`s sort of more has to do with your ruptured relationships in childhood and think psychopathy can be something you are born with --
MICHELLE GOLLAND, PSY.D., CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Which also a big --
PINSKY: Go ahead, Dr. Golland.
GOLLAND: Which also brings up the idea of what was her childhood like? Clearly, and not that there`s any justification for this, but we know, you don`t just come into the world and do this, OK? So, it`s important to understand how these personality disorders develop and how someone could become so flat and so lacking empathy and consciousness that they would do what it seems she did.
PINSKY: Although my understanding is if it`s a psychopath as a opposed to a severe borderline or other kinds of trauma personalities, that does tend to be a brain issue that is more genetic. And otherwise, Mark, you were trying to say something. Let me ask you before -- you`ve made your comment, but I also ask would you put -- where is the mom?
Why isn`t she on the stand? Why aren`t some of these supporters up there, you know, defending her, given her sort of a character profile that makes her look a little better?
MARK EIGLARSH, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: OK. Well, first of all, the court of public opinion doesn`t render a verdict, so that`s something that I try not to address as much as the courtroom. Now, in the courtroom, the defense is in a classic catch-22. They can`t prove this self-defense probably ever, but without evidence of self-defense, and as Jillian said, her view kind of reflects every opinion I`ve received on Twitter and Facebook.
That is, the evidence is inconsistent with self-defense. So, the only way you have a chance is if somebody testifies to it. That means you have to put her up on the stand, and I never like putting defendants on the stand because I can`t control how they`re going to do. I got to say one more thing, by the way.
July 15th, 2008 was the day that Caylee went missing. July 15th, 2008 is when Arias was arrested. Ironically, both Casey Anthony and Jodi Arias spent July 15th, that same day, lying to law enforcement.
PINSKY: That is the one thing we know about both these women. They lie, lie, lie. Yes. It`s bizarre to think -- Lisa Wexler, I`m going to go to you. I mean, these investigators, these women look them straight in the eye and just cold-blooded lying in a way that`s hard even to understand, and then --
REYNOLDS: Think about what they`ve just done. Think about what they`ve just done. They just butchered somebody, of course they can lie.
PINSKY: Yes, go ahead, Lisa.
REYNOLDS: That`s so secondary compared to what they`ve just done. That`s nothing compared to butchering a human being.
PINSKY: You`re right. Lisa?
LISA WEXLER, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: I agree --
DR. BILL LLOYD, HAS PERFORMED OVER 500 AUTOPSIES: Let`s get past the lying. We`re not talking about the lying as much as the compartmentalization.
PINSKY: Yes.
LLOYD: That`s what amazes me, Drew. She`s able to take a story, put it in a package, put the package over here, and then go kill somebody.
PINSKY: That`s right.
PINSKY: Let me just say, though, that severe compartmentalization is really disassociation where people literally are not aware of what they`re doing and those -- they gray out or black out --
LLOYD: She`s like a living Lego. She snaps off a piece, she kills somebody. Snaps a piece on, drives to Utah and finds a new boyfriend. It`s amazing.
PINSKY: Lisa, I`m giving you the floor. Go ahead, Lisa.
WEXLER: Thank you. Thank you, Dr. Drew. I just wanted to say the irony of this is that the reason the mistrial motions have been made is that the defense is accusing the prosecutor, the detective, of making a mistake, the detective of lying, if you will, or making negligent mistakes about the order of the weaponry was used which is, frankly, to my mind, completely irrelevant.
The judge threw it out its bogus which is why the mistrial motions were denied. So, the irony here is that they`re putting it on the other foot, which is, you know, ridiculous.
REYNOLDS: I agree with you that it`s irrelevant, but it does come to play that if she did stab him first, that`s torture, and then shot him, then that`s more, I guess, energy for the death penalty. It`s more evidence for the -- if she shot him first, it`s less painful than stabbing. Listen, I agree with you.
REYNOLDS: It`s all --
WEXLER: I think you`re splitting hairs, Jillian. I think you`re totally splitting hairs. I think the jury is going to see a pattern of such gross cruelty.
PINSKY: OK, guys, cruelty is the word. Disgust is what I`m feeling. Thank you to my panel. Thank you, Dr. Billy Lloyd, for your insight to this case. And also to Veronica for calling in. I bet some reaction on Twitter. People sort of substantiating some of the things she was saying about rancho mirage and palm dessert. We will cover the Jodi Arias trial again tomorrow.
" Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Moynihan
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Re: Travis Alexander of Mesa, AZ Found Murdered June 2008-Jodi Arias on Trial
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More Tape Shown of Jodi Arias`s Changing Stories
Aired January 15, 2013 - 19:00 ET
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: Tonight, we are going inside Jodi Arias`s complex web of lies. Hear her sob, weep, cry, laugh, and try to spin her phony stories to the detective who knows -- he knows she`s the only person responsible for the vicious, brutal murder of Travis Alexander.
And tonight, I`m joined by the man who introduced Jodi to Travis. He`s going to tell us what she was like before this grizzly crime ever took place.
VELEZ-MITCHELL (voice-over): Sex, lies and videotape, all splayed out before the jury and the world, as the Jodi Arias murder trial stuns the courtroom again today.
Prosecutors play a voicemail from Jodi to Travis Alexander, sent to him right after she had killed him. How bizarre is that? We`ll play you the chilling voicemail. And the most extraordinary videotape of Jodi lying over and over to detectives, even as they confront her with evidence that she killed Travis.
Plus, I`m talking exclusively to the man who introduced Jodi to Travis.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a picture of you in Travis`s bedroom with Travis. It`s obvious you guys are having sex.
JODI ARIAS, MURDER SUSPECT: Are you sure it`s me? Because I was not there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s you.
I can show you proof you were there.
ARIAS: I was not at Travis` house. I was not.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your hair is there with blood. And your palm print is there in blood. It`s over.
ARIAS: Could it have been my blood from before?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your image is not important right now. Saving the rest of your life is. You`re even denying the pictures of you being there, the pictures of you laying on the bed in pigtails.
ARIAS: Pigtails?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
ARIAS: If I hurt Travis, if I killed Travis, I would beg for the death penalty. I`m not guilty. I didn`t hurt Travis.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, explosive new evidence in the Jodi Arias murder trial as the so-called cold-blooded killer`s litany of lies is exposed in open court. Will a jury convict Jodi of murdering her ex- boyfriend after listening to her sob and wail and cry, and laugh, and most of all lie and lie and lie over and over again to police?
Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, coming to you live.
The beautiful 32-year-old admits she stabbed her ex-boyfriend 29 times, slitting Travis Alexander`s throat ear to ear, and shooting him in the face. Just look at what she did to his hands alone.
Jodi now says, "Oh, it was all self-defense." But when cops first questioned her, she displayed some very, very weird behavior. Look at this: stretching. Oh, yes, she`s doing a little backbend there, over the table during her interrogation. You can`t make this stuff up.
Before then, flipping over and kind of falling asleep and also telling police there was absolutely no way, no reason she would have killed Travis. Listen.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Travis is telling me that you did this to him. That`s my job. My job is to speak for him. And this is what he`s telling me. And I want to know why. It`s killing me inside. I don`t know why.
ARIAS: There`s reason for it. There`s no reason why. There`s no reason I would ever want to hurt him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s no way that anybody else...
ARIAS: He never raped me.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: The next day, in jailhouse orange, Jodi crumbles, admitting, yes, she was at Travis` house when he was killed, but still, she didn`t tell the truth. Instead, she concocts a wild story about Travis` home being invaded by ninja intruders.
Believe it or not, Jodi also lied to investigators about these kinky sex photos taken hours before Travis`s death, triple X photos like this one. This is one of the mild ones, of Jodi naked on a bed wearing pigtails. And this one of Travis, totally naked next to a bottle of personal lubricant.
Even when she changes her story to lie No. 2, the ninja home invasion story, she manages to work these photos into her new story line seamlessly. She`s an accomplished liar.
The jury, even her -- are you sitting down for this one? -- the voicemail Jodi left for Travis less than seven hours after she had already killed him. Yes. She rambled on, as if she didn`t leave the scene, a blood-soaked bedroom, with his dead body in the shower hours before. Listen to this extraordinary after-death voicemail she leaves the man she killed.
ARIAS: My phone died, so I wasn`t getting back to anybody. I drove 100 miles in the wrong direction, over 100 miles, thank you very much. So yes, remember New Mexico? It was a lot like that, only you weren`t here to prevent me from going into the three digits. So fun, fun. Tell you all about that later. Also we were talking about, when we were talking about your upcoming travels my way. I was looking at the May calendar -- duh -- so I`m all confused.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, and she ends it with "talk soon." No, not talk soon because he`s dead. I`m taking your calls on this. Call me: 1-877- JVM-SAYS. Your thoughts, your theories: 1-877-586-7297. Do you have any idea why she would behave in this manner?
Straight out to senior producer for our show, Selin Darkalstanian. You were inside court for this extraordinary marathon of lies caught on tape. Describe the mood as we see this interrogation tape. What`s the reaction? Tell us.
SELIN DARKALSTANIAN, HLN PRODUCER: We were all hanging on the edge of our seats watching this, Jane, because we see July 15 is the first day. She gets taken into the interrogation room. She is lying. She`s saying, "I have never been there. I have nothing to do with this. I never went to Arizona. I was never at Travis`s house."
And then we cut to day two, the next day. She comes back. She`s wearing an orange jump suit, because remember, day one, she`s saying she wasn`t there. She gets arrested. She gets put in jail.
Day two, she`s back in the interrogation room, and what does she say? "Oh, yes, actually, I was there. I got there at 3 a.m. in the morning, so his roommates wouldn`t see me. He didn`t like other people to see me when I came to his house." And we see this girl change her story, lie, after lie after lie.
And then, at one point, the investigator leaves the interrogation room, and you`re just sitting there. And there was a good minute or two where the entire courtroom is just watching her sit in a room all by herself. So you`re thinking, "What is she going to do? She doesn`t think anyone is watching her." She`s just sitting there stretching, doing yoga poses in the middle of an office, in the sheriff`s office.
So as if that wasn`t the most compelling moment was when she was alone in that interrogation room, because the entire courtroom, including the jury, was looking to see what is this girl going to do next? I saw the jurors. They were all taking notes, like, as she was giving her lies. One juror had filled his notebook completely. He went to a second notebook; he started writing, so the jurors are very, very into this.
And Selin, I`m watching her stretch and I`m like, I have never seen anything like this before in all my years of covering cases. That somebody is left in a room by interrogators after being grilled and she does this? It`s just truly bizarre, it`s extraordinary, if you put in a movie, people would say that`s absurd. Write it out. Nobody would ever do such a thing. Really extraordinary.
Here`s, now, as Selin mentioned, day one, she`s being grilled, "No, I wasn`t there." Day two, they arrest her. She`s in jailhouse orange, and she offers her second version of events as she`s being grilled, another elaborate lie when she says that Travis was killed by two intruders, all dressed in black, in masks, a man and a woman. Check this out.
ARIAS: I ran. And he stopped me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who stopped you?
ARIAS: Travis. He was still, like, conscious and still alive.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you just left him there?
ARIAS: No, I ran into the closet, because there`s two doors. And he was sort of in the hallway already, and he stopped me. Her didn`t touch me. He just held the gun to my head, and he was like, "You don`t go anywhere." And he (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
VELEZ-MITCHELL: By her own admission today, that is a complete and utter fabrication. there were no ninjas.
Let`s bring in the attorneys and Jon Lieberman, investigative reporter and host, "Searching for Justice" on AOL.
I want to start with you, Jon. This is one of the most extraordinary cases I`ve ever seen come down the pike. Not just the overwhelming forensics, but this marathon of lies is the best ways I can describe it. And the jury watching this, it almost seems like it was a crime to take this to trial, that something should have been done, because it is the most open-and-shut case we have ever seen.
JON LIEBERMAN, HLN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, it is; in my mind, it is. I mean the lies are infuriating. The tears are infuriating. Luckily, this detective played it so right and when he said that he was the one speaking for Travis, that is just so right.
And he unraveled Jodi. He allowed Jodi, actually, to unravel herself.
Jodi said things today like, "I`ve had plenty of boyfriends, and they`re all still alive." I mean, who says that?
She says at one point to the detective, "Tell me how I`m acting guilty." She makes it up as she goes along, and it`s absolutely infuriating.
And then the Verizon phone tech was on the stand today, and he testified, essentially, that it appears that, after Jodi killed Travis, she hacked into his voicemail to check his voicemail.
I mean everything about this case is just so infuriating, and I think the jury is now seeing the liar -- seeing Jodi for the liar that she is.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Deb Strickler, criminal defense attorney, you`ve got a tough job. She hacks into his voicemail after killing him. She leaves him these phony voicemails after killing him to try to create an alibi?
DEB STRICKLER, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nothing that happened today helps her case. So my guess is the reason why we`re all watching this trial and why we`re having this trial is because the prosecution, just like Casey Anthony, did not take the death penalty off the table. So they`re having to try the case, because they are going after the death penalty.
And I think they`re going to have a hard time proving only one aggravating circumstance in order to achieve the jury awarding a death penalty. Do I think a second-degree or a third-degree or even first- degree? Yes, but I don`t think they`re going to achieve getting a death penalty in this case. It isn`t enough. There`s more mitigating that will negate the aggravating circumstances of this case.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Ten seconds. Jon Lieberman, do you think she`s going to get the death penalty?
LIEBERMAN: I think she can avoid the death penalty, by -- get this -- taking the stand and trying to show these jurors that she`s semi-human. I think she has to take the stand to try and avoid the death penalty.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. On the other side...
LIEBERMAN: Even though they`re going to rip her apart.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... an extraordinary guest, David Hughes. This is an exclusive interview. He is the man who introduced Jodi Alexander [SIC] to her victim, Travis. Jodi Arias, my apologies. Jodi Arias to Travis Alexander, and actually introduced them at a convention at Las Vegas, watched them click. And also he can tell us about what she was like before she met Travis Alexander.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What I`m asking is for you to be honest with me. I know you were there.
ARIAS: Are you sure those pictures aren`t from another time?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Positive. Absolutely positive.
ARIAS: The last time I had any kind of sexual contact with Travis was in April.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can I tell you about the camera? That camera was damaged. Someone put it in a washing machine.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is your foot, Jodi. These are your pants. Now it`s off-color, because we had to enhance it, and the color kind of changes a little bit, but that`s Travis.
ARIAS: This is his bathroom. That is not my foot.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Another lie. Joining me now, in an exclusive interview, Dr. David Hughes, the very man who introduced Jodi to Travis, the woman that we have been seeing in these same shockers (ph).
First of all, I want to thank you for joining us, but my first question, you worked with her. You knew her before anybody ever knew Jodi Arias. Looking at her incredible ability to lie in the face of all evidence, can you give us an insight? Did she ever exhibit any tendencies that would give you an inkling that she would able to lie this effectively?
DAVID HUGHES, INTRODUCED JODI TO TRAVIS: Well, we knew that she -- as we got to know her better, we knew that she was a chameleon. She would adapt to any type of environment or situation she needed to.
And -- and so another thing is that we never really got to know Jodi Arias. I -- I actually worked with her in Legal Shield. She was part of my team. And she would -- I would take a few business calls, but I didn`t know her on a personal level until we met for the first time in person at the Las Vegas convention.
And so when I met her in person, I was like, "Hey, listen, it was great to meet you." And then I thought, well, hey, Travis is a single guy, and I know he`s always looking around for -- you know, for a cute girl to date, and so I introduced them. And I said, "Hey, I told Travis you`ve got to meet this gal," and he goes, "Well, introduce me." And so I introduced him. And then the relationship grew very quickly.
And as we continued to learn more about Jodi as Jodi, we just didn`t know much about her personal life. Like, she just didn`t reveal a lot of that information, and -- but we always felt weird, like there was always, you know -- well, I will say this, that she -- she knows that she has a way with men.
And that`s why I believe that she will take the stand. I think that she wants to take the stand, because she feels like she can go and, you know, convince a male on that jury to say, "I think -- I think what she`s saying is true" or to put a question in their mind.
But women, on the other hand for the most part, they -- they see right through. And my wife and my brother`s wife, they just knew that there was something weird about her right from the get-go.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And apparently, she did something strange when you were all hanging out at one of Travis` friends, Dave Hall`s house. Tell us about what she did that made you really wonder about her.
HUGHES: Well, I think it`s interesting that the defense is saying that she, you know, that Travis was the one that was so obsessive and manipulating, whereas, it was -- she`s the one that was like that. And I think more evidence just like in today is going to come out that will show that.
But, you know, at Mr. Hall`s house, we were sitting there and she was very affectionate with him, overly affectionate, in front of a bunch of other people. And she`s fondling his ears and rubbing his hair. And he just kind of like, you know, kind of waving his, you know, like a gnat. It was kind of bugging her at the time. And she would kind of back off a little bit. But it was -- it was to the point that it was just not natural, and it was strange and everyone noticed it.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to go to the phone lines, and Betty, maybe there`s something you have to ask that the doctor, Dr. David Hughes, who has joined us -- we`re so happy to have him on -- can answer. Betty, Virginia, your question or thought?
CALLER: Good evening, Jane.
Hello, Doctor.
I have a comment and a question. My comment is first, this domestic claim really ticks me off for the women that are true victims of abuse. That really ticks me off.
And the question is, since she`s such a talker, do you think she has shot her mouth off in prison to anybody, since she has been in prison for almost four years?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, that is a truly excellent question. I want to go to Beth Karas. You`ve been covering this from the start. The detective hones in over and over again: "Why? I know you did it, Jodi, but why? I can`t live with myself until I find out why." Has she revealed any true hidden motive to anyone?
BETH KARAS, TRUTV`S "IN SESSION": Not that we`re aware of, except we do think that she did tell the experts, who are expected to testify in this case for the defense. They`re not supposed to say what Jodi told them, but some of it might come in somehow through the backdoor. But she supposedly told them exactly how she killed Travis Alexander.
Now, I`m not aware of anybody in the jail finding out from her. I think the prosecution would have those witnesses on the list, if there was somebody who was credible who claims Jodi Arias confessed to them.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And that`s the missing piece of the puzzle. We`re going to continue with Dr. Hughes and our other panel of experts. It`s been established she killed him. There`s still a mystery, a giant question mark, why? Why did she do it?
More on the other side.
ARIAS: The evidence is very compelling, but none of it proves that I committed a murder.
MARIE HALL, TRAVIS ALEXANDER`S FRIEND: He had dated somebody earlier that year. She had slashed her [SIC] tires. She had followed us on the first date that we went on. She had broken into his e-mail accounts, his bank accounts. She would sneak into his house.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is absolutely some of the best evidence I`ve ever had in a case. And I`ve convicted a few people on less than this.
ARIAS: So I`m as good as done?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s not up to me. But eventually, those photos will come out.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s interrogation by Detective Steve Flores, but it sounds like a therapy session with a psychiatrist and a patient. Good detective work is like therapy. These detectives are all about getting that person to the emotional truth where they break down.
And I want to bring Dr. Judy Ho, clinical psychiatrist out of Los Angeles. As you watch this and it goes on and on for hours, it is like he`s trying to get her to admit what he knows, which is very similar to therapy, where the doctor usually knows what`s wrong with the patient. But the emotional catharsis, of course, is when the patient figures it out themselves.
DR. JUDY HO, CLINICAL PSYCHIATRIST: That`s right. And what`s happening right now with Jodi is she has stepped across the line in terms of the level of manipulation that she`s used. She`s pretending right now that she is still this innocent person, and she keeps changing her story over and over and over again.
And what`s going to happen with a jury, and we know this from social psychology research, that attractive women do tend to get lighter sentences. Jurors tend to sympathize with them. But as soon as any level of manipulation is picked up or any sense of lying or using their looks, you know, to take advantage of other people, when that happens, they get even heavier sentences.
And so what`s happening right now is, you know, Jodi is really digging her own grave here. I mean, she`s really kind of made a whole mess of the thing.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, again, I`ve never seen more evidence in any case I`ve ever covered. Who has a killing caught on camera that`s not a surveillance camera?
During interrogation, cops confront Jodi, about the naked photos taken right before Travis is killed, after they had sex, even pointing out that she was wearing pigtails, possibly some kind of role playing. Listen to this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s pictures of you laying on the bed in pigtails.
ARIAS: Pigtails?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
I`ve got pictures of you that I`ve blown up, and you`ve got that little mole right there. It`s the same one. It`s you. It`s obvious.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: The lies are extraordinary and, yes, he confronts her with this photo. And she`s obviously shocked, because she thought she got rid of those photos when she stuck the camera in the washing machine and washed a bunch of crime-scene bedding with the camera. But thanks to modern technology, the photos were recaptured.
Beth Karas, of all the extraordinary things that we saw in court, the second day of interrogation, when she`s in the orange jailhouse suit and she starts telling this crazy ninja story, take us through that.
KARAS: You know, it looked as though she might actually break, that he was close to breaking her. She starts sobbing, and then she says, "I didn`t see him get killed. I heard it." And that was the beginning of the tale of two intruders, a man and a woman. The woman wanted to kill Jodi, but the man said, "No, that`s not what we came here for."
And she talks about how Travis was shot first, and he was holding his head, and he was moaning. And then he was stabbed and he was bleeding all over the place. And you have to believe that she`s thinking back, now that we know she admitted doing it herself, reliving it. And now I`m wondering, maybe she did shoot him in the head first and not stab him. I don`t know.
But that he was bleeding all over the place and he was moaning. And "I could see, he wasn`t conscious, but he was still alive." And I`m thinking, "Wow, is this what was really happening as she was killing him?"
But then she says that the man, these two intruders, let her go, that "I`ll give you one chance, but if you ever, ever, ever tell anyone what happened" -- and he knew her address on her card, 1,000 miles away in Yreka, California -- he intimated that she or her family would be in danger. So she took off, and that`s when the tape ended. It will pick up tomorrow.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And it`s just all out of whole cloth, but every good liar takes the truth and weaves it into their lies. So was she taking her killing of Travis and kind of just superimposing two ninjas on top of it?
We`re just getting started. We are looking at another explosive day in court. Nancy Grace at 8 talks to a close friend and father figure to Travis Alexander. She`s got complete trial coverage. That`s at the top of the hour. And we`ve got a whole lot more for you, including more of the interrogation tapes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She slit his throat as a reward for being a good man.
She knocked the blessings out of him by being a bullet in his head.
ESTEBAN FLORES, DETECTIVE: Jodi, we`re not playing games here. That gun was in your possession.
I was trying to get the truth from Miss Arias.
You do have the right to remain silent. Anything that you say may be used against you in the court of law.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the palm of the left hand, with his wound to the heart he should have been able to get his hands up in an attempt to defend himself.
FLORES: You have the right to the presence of an attorney. If you cannot afford an attorney, you have the right to have an attorney appointed for you.
Do you understand these rights?
JODI ARIAS, ON TRIAL FOR MURDER OF TRAVIS ALEXANDER: Yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, new secrets and lies exposed in court today as we watch Jodi Arias tell lie after lie after lie after lie about her lack of involvement in the murder of ex-boyfriend, Travis Alexander. Of course, she ultimately said "Yes I did it," and claimed self-defense. But watch as she breaks down when she`s confronted with mountains of evidence that she was there with Travis that night, that she had sex with him. That she took naked photos and that he took naked photo of her and she took naked photos of him and that then she killed him.
Listen to her sob when the detective -- Detective Flores who`s done an extraordinary job in this interrogation confronts her with a mountain of evidence.
FLORES: This is absolutely some of the most evidence I have ever had in a case and I have convicted a few people on less than this.
ARIAS: Well, so I`m as good as done.
FLORES: This is enough for me to convict. But eventually those photos are going to come out.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Want to go to our very special guest, author David Hughes -- this is an exclusive interview. He is the gentleman who introduced Jodi Arias to Travis Alexander at a Las Vegas convention. We know that you`re not a psychic, that you can`t predict the future. Who could? But in light of all this, do you ever wonder, "Oh my gosh, I wish I had never introduced the two of them?" Do you ever feel any kind of irrational guilt?
DAVID HUGHES, AUTHOR: You know I would have never expected anything like this to happen. I don`t think anybody would have. Even though that we knew that there was some weirdness about her, I would have never have expected that that would happen.
But I will tell you the minute we got the news and the minute I got the news that Travis was dead, we all knew instantly it was Jodi.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Why?
HUGHES: Because of the way she acts. I mean we knew about her chasing him, following him around when he goes on dates with other girls, slashing his tires, stealing his journals; just doing crazy things -- sneaking into his home. So we knew about those things and so we -- it was just crazy, just crazy behavior.
And so when something happened, when you hear about somebody getting stabbed, at the time we didn`t know how many times but we knew it was multiple times and there was blood everywhere, you know, we just figured this was a crime of passion. It had to be Jodi.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Day two of her police interrogation, she is dressed in an orange jump suit, watch Jodi as she helpfully demonstrates to Detective Flores where she was when she claims, we now know this is a total lie, a complete fabrication -- she claims ninja intruders in masks dressed in black, one man and one woman, burst into the house.
ARIAS: I think he was shot.
FLORES: Where were you?
ARIAS: This is his shower. I was sitting here. Well, this is shower, I was sitting here -- I was like right here on my knees and his bathtub is right here. And I was just going through the pictures and I heard this loud ring.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Honestly, the Oscar goes to Jodi Arias, what a performance. Dr. Judy Ho there are actors in Hollywood who would love to have these skills. When I see her moving around and jumping around and let`s show her doing her stretch while the detective takes a break to watch her, I see somebody who is actively living in a fantasy world. Almost as if anything that enters her brain -- and we see this with other pathological liars -- suddenly something clicks and it becomes their reality.
DR. JUDY HO, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Absolutely. You know what`s happening, is she really has this sense of actually believing in the web of lies that she`s created. And so the fact that she`s walking around demonstrating what happened with these ninja intruders. And I was here and they were here and I was crouching like this, you know, acting this out with her body, it`s not normal behavior.
You know, when she was -- in the interrogation room by herself, doing the stretches, taking a little nap. This is not what people do when they hear that somebody they were dating was just murdered. If she really didn`t do it, there are different types of behaviors that we would be seeing here.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: A quick caller -- Nancy, Vermont -- your question or thought, Nancy?
NANCY, VERMONT (via telephone): Yes, hi, Jane.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hi.
NANCY: I love your show.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you.
NANCY: And the fact that I`m afraid that she is -- Jodi is so cunning and so manipulative that she`s going to just get one juror to, you know, believe her. It`s just disgusting to me.
And I also thought that the fact she even called the police afterwards, and started talking about she heard that somebody was killed and there`s a lot of blood, it`s almost like it`s a trophy for her.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, my gosh, that is an incredible word -- a trophy killing. Wow. What an excellent call, Nancy Vermont. On the other side of the break, could one sympathetic juror who sees all the sobbing and suddenly feels sorry for her, be a huge problem for prosecutors?
ARIAS: What I believe and this is something that comes from my faith and my religion is that it`s commanded of us to forgive people. And I don`t know that I would be big enough to stand before the person who did this and say "I forgive you". I don`t think I`m ready for that by any means, but I think that one day I`ll reach that point.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Our caller made an excellent point. All it takes is one sympathetic juror, and all of this crying in court that Jodi Arias has done. And now we see her crying on videotape and the humiliation of the sexy photos, the pornographic photos. Could that sway one juror to feel sorry for her?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: June 4, Arias makes a 3:00 to 4:00 a.m. arrival at Travis Alexander`s home in Mesa Arizona.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So you were on the road at that time?
ARIAS: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: At 5:31 p.m. Arias attacks and killed Travis Alexander.
ARIAS: I felt so helpless that I wasn`t there.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: At 10:30 p.m. that night, Arias calls her new love interest Ryan Burns.
RYAN BURNS, FRIEND OF TRAVIS ALEXANDER: She got tired and so she fell asleep.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That wasn`t her only phone call after Travis was killed by her. Who kills somebody and then calls the dead person`s phone, all right, and leaves a voicemail? I`ll give you one guess.
Listen to this voicemail left by Jodi Arias played in court today. It`s Jodi calling Travis`s phone hours after she has killed him. Listen to this.
ARIAS: My phone died so I wasn`t getting back to anybody. I drove 100 miles in the wrong direction, over 100 miles thank you very much, so yes. Remember New Mexico it was a lot like that only you weren`t here to prevent me from going into the three digits. So fun, fun. Tell you all about that later.
Also we were talking about, when we were talking about your upcoming travels my way, I was looking at the May calendar, duh, so I`m all confused. But Heather and I are going to see "Othello" on July 1. And we would love for you to accompany us. I don`t know when Team Freedom`s event is though, but you know it`s on the list. So we could do Shakespeare (inaudible), so if you can make you can make it. If not (inaudible) but let me know and I will talk to you soon. Bye.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Talk soon, bye, no. He`s dead. You know, because you killed him. In fact we find out today that Jodi called Travis`s phone four times after he was dead and one of those calls was made nearly a week after his body had been found. At one point Jodi dials into Travis`s voicemail messages for 16 minutes listening to his voicemail messages.
Was this all part of her plan to stage some kind of cover for the murder? Was she trying to create an alibi by leaving those voice mails?
The last photos of Travis alive are 5:32 p.m. on June 4th. Seven hours later, Jodi is calling his phone to leave a voicemail when she knows darn well he is dead.
It`s extraordinary. Dr. David Hughes, you knew Jodi Arias, you introduced her to Travis Alexander. Does it shock you? Does it blow your mind the extent of her duplicity?
HUGHES: You know, I listen to those recordings and it just, yes, it blows me away, the lies that she would tell. And I think it`s just -- you know she -- yes, I just can`t believe it. It`s just unbelievable that she would say those kind of things and have one story after another story and change it and with all of the evidence that was laid out today, she still was trying to stick to her story. Just amazing.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let`s go to the phone line -- Pat, Georgia, your question or thought -- Pat, Georgia?
PAT, GEORGIA (via telephone): Hi, Jane, I think that we`re watching a true psychopath and I wonder if there`s ever been any incident in her past of people dying or being killed, you know, that something that she may have been involved with because anybody that can slaughter somebody like that and powder their nose --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I could tell you that we have heard references, Jean Casarez to expert examinations -- obviously the defense hires psychologists to make a psychiatric determination. We have -- she has a completely clear record, that`s what`s so perplexing about this case, she doesn`t have a long rap sheet, right?
JEAN CASAREZ, CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": No, she had some other relationships. I think they were pretty normal -- normal just in every way. She does say, which is interesting when she`s talking to Detective Flores, that at one point she kicked a dog. And she talks about how the dog was doing things she didn`t like, and she kicked it.
She also said that she had a breakdown after a relationship ended, but those could be telltale signs of what can grow and foster and get worse.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Sure. Cruelty to animals is often a precursor to violent crimes against humans -- we all know that.
CASAREZ: Yes. That` right.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s been in studies.
All right. On the other side of the break, we`re going to have our legal and investigative experts battle it out -- the impact of the sex photos on the jury and one juror is all it takes to feel sorry for her, her sobbing in court. We`ll analyze it on the other side.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I believed it was unusual that small items worth money or money for instance, the change was not taken. I also thought it was strange that only one of the firearms was stolen from the cabinet.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: On the other side of the break, our exclusive guest, Dr. David Hughes, you saw when Jodi stayed at his brother, Chris`s house. We`re trying to get insight into the extremely bizarre behavior of this accused murderess who admits she killed but says it was in self-defense.
FLORES: Jodi, this is over. This is absolutely over. You need to tell me the truth.
ARIAS: Listen, the truth is I did not hurt Travis.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Detective Flores grills her. Anybody else would probably be shaking. And she -- you know what she does? Look at this. They go out to get a little rest or coffee or to watch her. And she does this crazy, weird, like, yoga stretch. Jon Leiberman, what the heck? Why did detectives leave her so they could observe her?
JON LEIBERMAN, HLN CONTRIBUTOR: Oh, well, they always do. I mean they want to see how a suspect is going to act if they`re going to be relaxed, if they`re going to be uptight, some fall asleep in the interrogation room, and they got exactly what they wanted. They got these images. They see how relaxed she is.
And you know what; I just think there`s absolutely no reasonable doubt in this case because there`s no evidence at all to support self-defense. And there`s actually a lot of evidence to support that she premeditated the murder of Travis Alexander.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That is so bizarre. I mean I just lean back in my chair for a second. I would never consider being on the air and leaning back like that. She`s being accused of murder, and she`s doing a yoga stretch. It`s crazy.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let`s talk, Meg Strickler, about the -- criminal defense attorney -- about sex photos. Because as a caller mentioned, all it takes is one sympathetic juror, possibly a female juror, the jury is overwhelmingly male, to look at these photos and say oh, she`s being exploited. I feel sorry for her. She`s also sobbing in court constantly. Is that -- is this sort of a Hail Mary pass, hoping for that one juror?
MEG STRICKLER, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You always want help for the one juror. You hope you reach one juror when you`re a defense attorney and said, you know what; listen to this case, listen to some of these facts. And understand these pictures with this day of technology -- most people would never let those pictures ever be taken. So the fact that they were taken, it bolsters in theory her self-defense argument, they`re having sex, all these things are happening, they take pictures. And understand those pictures could be used by the defense when they present their case. And there will be a slightly different spin than you`re hearing right now.
Remember, the defense has not done anything yet. We`re only hearing the prosecution`s version right now.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, yes. Imagine what story they`re going to weave with all of this material. It`s like putting together a collage. Who knows what they`ll come up with?
Dr. Judy Ho, clinical psychologist, I don`t know if we can go back to that stretch because something about that stretch just captures my imagination. And it really encapsulates how insane this case is and why the public is fascinated with it. What do you make of this woman stretching like this when she`s accused of murder and her life is on the line?
HO: You know, earlier somebody had mentioned that she`s a bit of a psychopath. Even that there`s no history, that this is how she`s behaving. And what we know about psychopaths is that their brain activity is extremely low in very stressful situations, such as being interrogated for murder. And I feel like the bodily reflection of that, you know, her stretching, relaxing her body more is sending more signals to her brain that everything is ok. You know, there`s something going on there. And I think what`s happening, too, is that she is really a narcissist. Because she really thinks that all --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And speaking of narcissism, Doctor, look at her looking at herself in court. She studies herself. That`s her in court looking at the video of herself and she`s fascinated. Oh, when it`s autopsy photos, no. But if it`s her, no matter what`s going on, she wants to see the whole thing, take it all in. You are absolutely right.
HO: Yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: A malignant narcissist, that`s one phrase I`ve heard. There`s so many, borderline -- so many diagnoses seem to fit this woman.
On the other side -- Dr. Hughes and his story about Jodi.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you tell whether or not the person is standing or not?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To me, he looks like he`s sitting.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This time period of 5:22 up until 5:30, there`s many pictures taken of Mr. Alexander in the shower, right?
FLORES: Correct.
FLORES: Why is your palm print in blood?
ARIAS: How can that be my palm print?
FLORES: Because you were there.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Back with our exclusive guests. We`re so happy to have with us tonight, Dr. David Hughes. He introduced Jodi Arias to Travis Alexander. Of course, he had no idea what was going to happen. Who could predict this insanity?
David -- and thank you for letting me call you David, Doctor -- what was the story when Jodi stayed at your brother Chris`s house?
HUGHES: Well, Jodi and Travis had showed up at his house in southern California. And my brother Chris and his wife, Sky, had invited Travis up to an upper bedroom to have a conversation with him and Jodi was downstairs. And so they were just telling them how they don`t like the relationship, that he needs to break up with her, and that he does not want -- or that they did not want him to bring Jodi back into their home ever again.
And so this conversation went on for several minutes. And Jodi was standing outside of the doorway listening to every word. And when she walked in, the face -- she walked in, opened up the door, and she said, "Is everything all right?" And the look that she had, if you had any doubts that she could commit what she committed on that night, those doubts would have been gone because the look was just -- I mean it was just an evil look.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Unbelievable foreshadowing. Thank you, Doctor. I`m sorry we have to meet under these circumstances.
We are all over this case. We`re going to bring you the testimony tomorrow. Expect more stunners. And we have more extraordinary interviews.
Nancy Grace is next with more, too.
" Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Moynihan
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Re: Travis Alexander of Mesa, AZ Found Murdered June 2008-Jodi Arias on Trial
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Jodi Arias`s Police Interrogation Tapes
Aired January 15, 2013 - 20:00 ET
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, Mesa, Arizona. They meet up on a work trip in Vegas, and they fall hard. But when the flame burns out and they break up, she then moves 300 miles to get back together, to pursue him, even converting to Mormonism to get her man. But then 30-year- old Travis Alexander found slumped over dead in the shower of his five- bedroom home, shot, stabbed 29 times, violence so brutal, it resembles a mob hit.
And just hours after Arias stabs Travis to death in the shower, she has sex contact with a brand-new boyfriend, the whole time Alexander`s body decomposing in a damp shower stall. Testimony reveals 27-year-old Arias has wild sex all day with Travis, even photographing the sex. But then within minutes after, she slashes his throat!
Bombshell tonight. Jodi Arias caught in an elaborate web of lies, and it`s all caught on tape. We have the video.
JODI ARIAS, CHARGED WITH MURDER: I think because I`m a photographer, I tend to communicate more through pictures.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I have pictures of you in Travis`s bedroom with Travis. It`s obvious you guys are having sex, date and time stamped on the day he died.
ARIAS: Are you sure it`s me? I mean, because I was not there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know you took pictures of him in the shower just before he died.
ARIAS: I don`t think he would allow that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And the camera actually took a couple of photos by accident around the time he was being killed.
ARIAS: Really? I wasn`t there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Be honest with me, Jodi.
ARIAS: I was not at Travis`s house. I was not.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You left palm print at the scene in blood. What`s going on there?
ARIAS: Could my palm print have already been there, and then it touched it?
I`m not a murderer, but I guess if I were to do that, I would wear gloves, or you know, something. I`m not guilty. I didn`t hurt Travis. If I hurt Travis, if I killed Travis, I would beg for the death penalty.
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. Jodi Arias caught in an elaborate web of lies, and it`s all caught on tape. We have the video.
What a day in that Mesa, Arizona, courtroom! Out to Jean Casarez joining us. Jean, what happened?
JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION": Well, Nancy, it was Verizon telephone was front and center today. And we know from those photos that it was 5:30 PM that Travis Alexander was killed.
Well, a little after 11:30 at night, there is a phone call made to Travis Alexander`s cell phone. It is Jodi telling him she will see him soon, take care. And then five minutes later, there`s a 16-minute phone call to Travis Alexander`s phone from Jodi`s phone. It can`t be voicemail. You can`t talk in voicemail for 16 minutes.
So the Verizon representative said he believed Jodi Arias was checking the voicemails on Travis Alexander`s cell phone.
GRACE: OK, that`s just downright freaky. We already know she stabs a guy to death. By all three of her stories, she`s there on the scene at her murder. Her last one is that she slashed his throat from ear to ear in self-defense. So we know she did it. But now we`ve got her calling back to check his messages? OK, that`s crazy.
Jodi Arias is caught on tape. Liz, please cue up some of her statement to -- oh, you got it ready? Let`s hear it. Roll it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) camera. That camera was damaged. Someone put it in the washing machine, ran it through a wash cycle with some clothes of Travis`s. But the card is intact. Remember I told you that card was destroyed?
ARIAS: Uh-huh.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I didn`t want to tell you the truth because I wanted to make sure those photos were accurate (INAUDIBLE) I don`t care if you delete them six months ago, we can pull every photo that was ever on there, pull the little pixels together, get the timestamps on them. Not all of them, but most of them have timestamps on them. And we can verify those timestamps.
ARIAS: Uh-huh.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We can keep playing these games over and over again. I am not going to believe you. When you start telling me the truth, then I can believe you. But I can`t deny this evidence. I can`t.
The trip you took doesn`t make sense. The opportunity was there. Your pictures on that date with him, your blood is in the house mixed with his -- mixed, not alongside, but mixed. Your hair is there with blood. And your palm print is there in blood. It`s over.
GRACE: All right, when she is confronted with all of this evidence -- she`s got the police officer, the detective, who`s a seasoned detective -- Liz, pull me that picture of the bloody palm print. He`s telling her about the photographic evidence that they have. He`s got this photo. He says, This is your palm print. It`s your blood mixed with the victim`s blood. You`re in the home. I`ve got you dead in the water.
Matt Zarrell, she`s not the least bit intimidated. She has a comeback. What is it?
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Yes, Nancy. She, in fact, alleges that the blood that is in the home that is her blood is from her cutting herself months earlier in April when she was visiting Travis Alexander when she broke a glass in his home. Now, remember, Nancy, she also gave a similar story about breaking a glass working at Margaritaville to Ryan Burns when he asked about cuts on her hands just hours after the murder.
GRACE: And isn`t it true, Bonnie Druker, that later on, when he asks about her hand, she says, Well, I don`t have a cut on that hand. And he goes, What about the other hand? And she says, Oh, my cat scratched me.
BONNIE DRUKER, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Oh, yes, it`s unbelievable, lie after lie after lie. She said, Look, my cat, here`s what she did over here. Here`s what she did over here. Here`s what she did over here -- just one of many lies today, Nancy, that we`ve seen right on videotape, right up there on the jumbo screen.
GRACE: OK, what`s the jury reaction, Bonnie, when she`s sitting there listening to all of her lies? What is the jury doing?
DRUKER: Everyone is just looking mesmerized at the jumbo screen. Of course, the jury, they`re trying not to show any reaction. Some are looking over to Jodi, but most of them are just mesmerized, looking at the evidence right there on the wall.
GRACE: OK, Jean Casarez, Liz, everybody, I want to warn you you`re about to see some very disturbing photos. They are naked photos, number one -- not sexy. Don`t worry about that. They`re photos taken just before the murder.
Jean Casarez, when she was told about these photos, what was her comeback to the detective?
CASAREZ: Well, originally, she denies it. But then when he shows a picture of her without any clothes on, and he covered up that part so just her head showed, she said, You know, that does look like me. So she was surprised.
And then she said, You know what? Maybe it comes from my camera in the storage unit because I had a memory card, and maybe that got in that camera, so they were old pictures from a long time ago. She thinks fast, and it`s excuse after excuse.
GRACE: OK. Out to Ben Levitan, communications expert. Everybody, we are live and taking your calls. We`re at the courthouse in Mesa, Arizona.
Bill Levitan, what is she talking about? Maybe -- well, first of all, she sees herself -- and her vagina, I might add -- on a digicam photo, timestamped right before the murder takes place. And she says -- looks at it for a while. She seems to think for a moment. She goes, You know, that does look like me.
All right, now, Ben, what is she talking about that maybe that`s the memory stick out of my camera and it somehow got into his camera?
BEN LEVITAN, TELECOMMUNICATIONS EXPERT (via telephone): Nancy, these are just really bad lies. You know, a memory stick, you know that it`s a small chip. It`s a memory that you put in your digital camera. And it`ll hold, like, 500 pictures or something like that. And you can move that from camera to camera.
But this is such a bad lie, Nancy, because the pictures -- whenever you take a picture, the camera embeds the date and the time and the camera that the picture -- the actual serial number of the camera that took the picture. This is not a good lie.
GRACE: OK, wa-wait. What did you see about a serial number?
LEVITAN: When you take a picture -- you know, any computer document embedded where you can`t see it -- there`s something called metadata. Metadata is information about the file. And when you take a picture, the camera embeds something called metadata, which will tell you the exact time that the picture was taken...
GRACE: OK, hold on. When you`re talking about, like, a memory card, it could be, like, a tiny chip, correct?
LEVITAN: Right.
GRACE: A tiny little -- as small even as a SIM card that goes in a BlackBerry.
LEVITAN: Exactly.
GRACE: So she`s saying that -- is that even possible, for a -- like a SIM card or a memory chip to be taken out of one camera and put in another? Don`t they have to be the same exact kind of camera?
LEVITAN: These are standard, Nancy. They can be moved from camera to camera. You know, you can go to the electronics store and buy standard -- it`s like a little disk. It`s like a little USB. It can -- it can...
GRACE: I got it. I got it. So the theory -- the theory that she`s talking about is possible. It`s just that, Jean Casarez, she`s saying that somehow, the memory chip in her camera, that it was in storage, somehow got into his brand-new camera that they talked about and discussed and he bought after they discussed it?
CASAREZ: Correct. And so it was just sort of a mishap.
CASAREZ: How could this happen? It`s the only thing I can think about.
GRACE: OK, Matt Zarrell, she has an excuse for everything they bring up to her. What are her -- I mean, she doesn`t miss a beat with this guy. And this is a seasoned detective. Arias is just -- she goes down with the ship. What are some of her excuses, Matt?
ZARRELL: Well, first of all, she says as far as the .25-caliber handgun, stole it from her grandparents` home -- she says she`s never seen the gun, never touched it, doesn`t know what a .25-caliber handgun looks like. And yet we already know that she admitted to shooting him with a .25-caliber handgun.
She also, as we talked about, says, referring to the photos, Oh, it looks like me, but she questions whether the photos were actually taken that day or taken a different day. She questions whether there are more -- there`s information that is not being revealed, whether the timestamps have been changed on the photographs and they`ve been tampered with. She also alleges that.
She alleges maybe someone is framing her. She also makes sure to note that she`s all for the 10 Commandments and thou shalt not kill.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have something to tell me, but you`re just so resistant. I know you`re afraid. But you`re already going through it right now. There`s no backing up. There`s no backing up to yesterday. There`s no backing up to that day. It`s already happened. And unfortunately, you`re going to have to face the consequences.
ARIAS: You know, if I did that, I would -- I`d be fully ready to face the consequences. I`m not really for things like -- you know, I`m all for the 10 Commandments, thou shalt not kill, OK? But...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is no evidence to show anybody else did it. None.
GRACE: OK. Unleash the lawyers, Randy Kessler, Atlanta, John Manuelian, LA.
Kessler, I really get skeeved out when you`ve got a killer -- a heartless killer, I might add -- who leaves a decaying body in a damp shower stall to start spouting off the bible. Do not even start that because that`s where she`s headed.
RANDY KESSLER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, it really doesn`t matter what she says. I mean, if there`s a crime, it`s the murder. The spouting off lies, that`s really not what we`re worried about. That`s why we...
GRACE: I said spouting off the bible.
KESSLER: Well, what does it matter what she`s spouting off? If she killed somebody, she`s guilty. If she didn`t...
GRACE: You know, Kessler...
KESSLER: She`s not being tried for spouting off the bible.
GRACE: Why did I even think that a defense attorney would get it? What I`m saying is -- OK, you know what? Forget you two.
To Caryn Stark, psychologist. Caryn, help me out here.
CARYN STARK, PSYCHOLOGIST: Nancy...
GRACE: It`s all offensive, but to then try to hide behind the bible or to hide behind God when you`re trying to talk your way out of a murder? I don`t expect the defense attorneys to get why that is just so distasteful. But it is.
STARK: It`s distasteful and not surprising because she is really good at what she does. She`s a pathological liar. She`s a narcissist, and she has antisocial personality. She will come up with anything, just as you saw, very, very quickly to cover her tracks.
So now she`s God-fearing. But we know that she killed him. So it makes absolutely no sense, and it is really disgusting.
GRACE: And I`m all about forgiveness and starting over. She can start a whole new life and be forgiven behind bars. That`s the way I`m looking at it!
Out to the lines. Linda in Texas. Hi, Linda. What`s your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. Love you and your twins.
GRACE: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is such a horrible thing. I really do think, Nancy, that she staged the photography. I think she set that camera on a timer. I think she staged the photos the way she wanted and held a gun on him.
And after she killed him, she threw the camera away because the pictures meant nothing more to her after that. That`s the way narcissists are. And I just think she loves -- well, she loved taking pictures of herself. We all know that.
GRACE: What I really liked, Linda in Texas, is when they show a picture of her laying there buck naked, she goes, You know, that does look like me.
And the thing is -- Jean Casarez, you saw it all unfold in court. Did she have any change of inflection when they showed her the photo on -- when they discussed the photo or showed it to her in the interrogation room?
CASAREZ: No, not really. No, not at all. But you know what`s interesting, what Linda in Texas just said, these inadvertent photos -- that`s what the prosecutors say they are. But as I study them and I look at them, I wonder if Linda`s not right, that there was a timer set and she wanted to diagram (ph) and keep taking pictures as she was killing him.
GRACE: OK, you know, Jean? That is sick. That`s sick. That is a thought -- I hadn`t let my mind go there. I have gone as far as saying she`s made -- took her own crime scene photos, but that theory actually is plausible.
Liz, let`s hear some more Jodi Arias caught on tape.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The record shows you reported a gun stolen, a .25 auto. This happens to be the same caliber as the weapon used to kill him.
ARIAS: A .25 auto was used to kill Travis?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, along with multiple stab wounds.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s no way...
ARIAS: My hair would have been all over.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s no other hair.
ARIAS: Can you take -- can you take a hair sample, and like...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have your DNA.
ARIAS: No, no, no but I mean, like, you know how they can do drug tests and find out when things were done.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We can`t do that.
ARIAS: Can`t you measure the time?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have DNA matching that hair.
ARIAS: OK, I know, but...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And that hair had a follicle on it, and that means that that hair wasn`t there very long. Follicles usually dissipate and go away after a certain time. They`ll fall off the hair itself.
ARIAS: Well, then I would brush my hair there...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jodi...
ARIAS: I mean...
GRACE: She remains nonplused throughout the whole interrogation.
We are taking your calls. With me right now is a very special guest. This is a close friend, even father figure to Travis Alexander. Dr. Karl Hiatt is with us from Mesa.
Dr. Hiatt, thank you for being with us. It`s my understanding that Travis actually told you he feared for his own life. Is that true?
DR. KARL HIATT, FRIEND OF TRAVIS ALEXANDER: Yes, he did.
GRACE: What happened, Doctor?
HIATT: Well, Travis would come for Sunday meals. And one day, he showed up and was telling us that he had broken up with Jodi. And the next day, he got in his car and noticed that all four tires were slashed, or went to his car and all four tires had been slashed. That story`s been told.
And then he showed up on Sunday and told us about it, and we realized that she was very angry. You know, obviously, we were a little bit shaken and thought, Wow, she`s vengeful.
And then he said, Don`t be surprised. If I don`t show up one of these Sundays, you find me dead somewhere. And we just thought, Oh, wow, you know, she really is vengeful, but didn`t think past that. And then he said, I`m serious. And we kind of laughed it off again. But you know, he was predicting and prophesying his own death by Jodi.
GRACE: When his tires were slashed, Dr. Hiatt, what were his thoughts on that?
HIATT: Well, I don`t really know. I just know he knew she was serious and that she was extremely upset. And you know, he was with her for about five months, just trying to figure out, you know, who she was and was dating her and seriously was pursuing her, you know?
But as he got to know her more and more, he realized that she wasn`t the one for him. And this really -- the tire slashing solidified that decision, that it was a good one to break up with her.
And he wanted to change his life and move on and be more positive, and I think she was kind of dragging him down. So he knew he`d made the right decision, especially after the tires were slashed.
ARIAS: Can I see the pictures?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have your blood at the scene, your hair with blood at the scene, your left palm print at the scene in blood. What`s going on there?
ARIAS: Well, I can explain the blood and the hair, I don`t know about my left palm print.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How can you explain the blood?
ARIAS: Well, because I used to bathe Napoleon all the time. And --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You haven`t been there since April, right?
ARIAS: Mm-hmm. Well --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s had the house cleaned several times since then. And this hair was not just a hair, you know, in the shower or something. This hair was stuck with blood, and obviously had blood on it at the time it got stuck, where it -- where it ended up.
NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST: We are back and taking your calls. And we`re very pleased and proud to have with us a father figure to Travis Alexander, Dr. Karl Hiatt, a very close, close friend to Travis.
Dr. Hiatt, how did you and Travis meet?
DR. KARL HIATT, M.D., CLOSE FRIEND AND FATHER FIGURE TO TRAVIS ALEXANDER: Well, I met Travis through my two boys. They actually lived with Travis. They wanted to be in a bachelor pad and leave home. And so they lived with him, rented out a room. The next Sunday they came for an evening meal. On Sundays, we`d gather around and have a meal. They left Travis behind. And they felt so guilty about it. They just said dad, we can`t -- we can`t come back next Sunday without bringing Travis. They became really good friends. So he came for Sunday meal and it just stuck.
His parents, not too long after that, his mom passed away. And so then he came back to Arizona and said OK, you`re my family.
GRACE: Wow.
HIATT: And we felt fortunate to have him consider us that.
GRACE: You know, Dr. Hiatt, I always tend to just ask so many questions. Just out of curiosity, it may not have any impact whatsoever on guilt or innocence, but I`m just imagining all of you sitting around the Sunday lunch table and getting closer and closer and closer. And now this.
I`m still stunned by the fact that Travis actually prophesied, had an inkling. You know, many a true word is spoken in jest when he said, don`t be surprised if you find me dead one day.
As well as you know Travis and from what you know about Arias, what is your reaction to what she and her defense lawyers are saying about him in court? That he abused her. She was afraid of him. That he beat her. She killed him in self-defense and that he`s a sexual deviant.
HIATT: Well, you know, it`s unfortunate, obviously, to hear that. There`s -- none of that is true. Travis -- I have four daughters, and they were his younger sisters. And they had no fear whatsoever of being with him at any time, alone, driving anywhere, going out to eat, being at a show.
We took him fishing with us. We had no -- we had no reservations about Travis. He was never violent. He never raised his temper -- raised his voice, I mean. He never showed any kind of temperament that was -- that was vicious or violent in any way. I`ve never seen that of Travis. He was positive.
GRACE: I just wish there was a way, Doctor Hiatt, that the prosecution could portray the real Travis in court? You know, this is the deal, Doctor. You`re a medical doctor. You know, you`re so much more schooled than all of us lawyers here on the panel, but it`s impossible to get the nature of the victim before the jury. That`s inadmissible.
That jury will never know that Travis Alexander is like my older brother or somebody`s son, just a good guy that got tangled up with the wrong woman.
Let me ask you, what did you think of Arias -- and I know that`s a hard question for you to contemplate now, you know, now that you know. But when you first met her, when you had first been around him, what did you think of her?
HIATT: Well, you know, I try not to pass judgment because as I said, I really trusted Travis. In the end, obviously Travis was right in leaving her. And so I didn`t want to mettle or pry. And I reserved my own judgment. I didn`t want to say anything. And she was very appropriate, you know, when she came over to eat with her family. You know, we told Travis, bring whoever you want. We -- you know, if you want to bring over somebody you`re dating or whatever, she`s welcome.
And so when Jodi came, we felt the same. We didn`t want to be anything but welcoming to any friend of Travis`s. So I didn`t really have any suspicions or anything. I do know when he did tell us things like the tire event, and that she obviously knew that he was doing the right thing in leaving her. He told us a lot more about his desires to change and, you know, go see his bishop and get things right. And we just cheered him on. And --
GRACE: But why did he say he was breaking up with her? What did -- what was his issue with her?
HIATT: You know, I don`t remember. My two boys, who lived with him, they might --
GRACE: Yes.
HIATT: They might have been a little bit more intimate with those kind of conversations.
GRACE: What was she like at the memorial service, Dr. Hiatt?
HIATT: We had a memorial services here in East Mesa and then of course the funeral in California. But yes, she sat there without any emotion. It was just straight. The rest of us that all loved Travis, we cried, we laughed, we -- you know, at some of the memories, the things that he did. We just had every emotion in the memory of the memorial service just like you normally would.
I don`t -- I -- she had nothing. I don`t -- she didn`t cry, she didn`t laugh, she didn`t break a smile. She didn`t -- she didn`t shed a tear. It was -- it was very -- her affect was very aloof, very distant.
GRACE: Everyone, we are taking your calls. Out to Michelle in Florida. Hi, Michelle. What`s your question?
MICHELLE, CALLER FROM FLORIDA: Hi, Nancy. I just wanted to know, what was her demeanor like in court?
GRACE: You know what? I`ve been -- you know, a lot of times, Michelle in Florida, when I look at her, again, I just can`t draw the analogy enough, she looks like Cousin It, because she pulls her hair down over the front of her face and hide from the jury.
Jean Casarez, what am I missing? What`s her demeanor when she pulls that hair back?
JEAN CASAREZ, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": Yes. Let me tell you something that the camera doesn`t see. Her chair is much lower than her attorney`s chairs are, so she is a little waive in court. You basically see her but she is down, crouched down, the same thing that Casey Anthony was like in court. And that`s something the camera doesn`t catch, but the jury sees it.
GRACE: Also in court today, she dropped the facade in front of the jury and broke down sobbing, sobbing when she saw herself caught on tape during the ninja attack. I believe that`s what -- when she started crying, Matt Zarrell, when she saw herself talking about the man and woman dressed in solid black that came in and murdered Travis in front of her.
I wonder what it was about that story that made her break down and start crying.
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE STAFFER, COVERING STORY: Yes, what she told police is that she heard this loud noise. She`s taking photographs of Travis Alexander in the shower. She hears this loud noise. Something hits her. She thinks she became unconscious, she realizes Travis is hurt. She talks about this man and this woman, they were dressed in all black. All she could see was their eyes. They couldn`t get any more details about them. She says it appeared the man and the woman were surprised that Arias was there. She -- and Travis kept telling Arias to go to the neighbors for help.
Arias gives this whole story, says these intruders kill Travis, leaves the house but never calls 911.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Randy Kessler, Atlanta, John Manuelian, L.A.
All right, Manuelian, she starts crying in court when she sees herself in her second version. Now how is that going to strike the jury?
JOHN MANUELIAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, she could be crying because she feels remorseful for what she did. She could still have a self-defense argument but still regret the fact that her boyfriend is dead. So it all depends on, you know, the -- at the totality of the evidence and how it plays when she`s crying, obviously, and how she`s crying and how long she`s crying. So the jurors are definitely watching that.
GRACE: OK, Kessler, what do you make of Jean`s observation? She`s figured out that Jodi Arias has her chair screwed down so she`s much smaller than everybody else at the table so she looks tiny and petite, sitting all crouched down over there in the corner of the defense table. What about that?
RANDY KESSLER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think we`re making much ado about nothing. Maybe that`s the way the chair came and she doesn`t know how to adjust the chair. I mean, she`s not going to be convicted because the chair is too high or too low. We`ve got to focus --
GRACE: OK. You know what, I --
KESSLER: That is the truth.
GRACE: There was a time I would have hired you if I ever needed a criminal defense attorney.
GRACE: But to tell me that a death penalty lawyer sitting right beside her can`t figure out how to screw a chair to go up? All right. Yes -- no, I`m not hiring you.
KESSLER: Well, she`s going to be convicted based on her -- OK. She`s going to be convicted because her chair is too low? Come on.
GRACE: I didn`t ask you that.
GRACE: I asked you what do you make of the ploy? It is a ploy. Now you can either be straight with me and give me the answer, or you can jerk me around, which is what you`re trying to do, but you know what, I don`t care because I know what`s happening in court. No, no, no. You had your chance.
GRACE: All right. Because, Jean, let`s just tell the defense attorneys again the ploy they`re using in court to make her look pitiful, frail and pathetic, all hunched down over there in the corner of the courtroom.
CASAREZ: These are adjustable chairs, and this one is lower. It`s much lower. And so the perception is someone who is frail and little and small. And even though she admitted doing it, it`s someone that you can have more empathy for, because she`s a little person in that courtroom compared to the others around her.
GRACE: To CW Jensen, retired police captain, also joining me out of Arizona.
CW, have you ever known a woman to kill a man? It`s not unheard of. It happens every day.
CW JENSEN, RETIRED PORTLAND POLICE CAPTAIN: Oh, absolutely. I mean, and I arrested a bunch of women for killing abusive husbands or boyfriends. But let me tell you, Nancy, of those, let`s say, dozen cases that I did, they did not mutilate and then run away from the scene. What they did was they called the police and said this what`s happened and they stood there, and we arrived, they were ready to tell the truth.
And the biggest problem this woman has done is she did this in Arizona and not Florida because Arizonans aren`t going to buy this.
GRACE: Why do you say that? Why do you say Arizona is not going to buy this?
JENSEN: You know, Nancy, I`ve been doing your show for two years, and it just seems the goofiest cases are always in Florida. And I think that people in Arizona are more pragmatic, first. Second of all, this case is so ridiculous. And I have talked to a lot of liars, when I worked homicide. This is absolutely ridiculous.
GRACE: Out to the lines. Becky in Kentucky. Hi, Becky. What`s your question?
BECKY, CALLER FROM KENTUCKY: Yes, ma`am. Thank you for taking my call, Nancy.
GRACE: Thank you for calling me, dear.
BECKY: Ma`am, my question is this. I`ve been watching this whole trial via your show since the beginning. And my question is this. It struck me last night when I was watching all the pictures that were taken in the shower and in the bedroom of her and Travis.
Do they not think that these pictures were taken in premeditation of what she was about to do? I mean, it just seems to me that she tried to lay out this big stage and she -- you know, tried to lay things out so that it would be found in her favor later on in trial. And make him look bad.
GRACE: Good question. To Bonnie Druker, what do you make of that theory?
BONNIE DRUKER, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: I am not sure about that theory, but I can say that she loved her camera. Even the friends that we`ve had come on the show, they`ve said how much she loved her camera. And she wouldn`t talk, but she would take pictures. So I`m not sure about it. It is a possibility.
GRACE: Well, you know what? Everything else has been premeditated. And why would she take all the photos? The only thing, Becky in Kentucky, that belies that theory is, what discredit it is she did try to destroy the photos, she tried to delete a lot of them, and she tried to put it through the wash cycle which didn`t work.
To Angela in Ohio. Hi, Angela. What`s your question?
ANGELA, CALLER FROM OHIO: Hi, Nancy. Thank you so much for taking my call. I`m a huge fan of the show, never miss it.
GRACE: Thank you.
ANGELA: I`ve been watching this trial -- you know, been watching the trial, been up on the case since it began, and I`m curious as to what prosecution attorney basically stated were the reasons for deciding upon the death penalty? Obviously, I think it was the right choice. She`s obviously -- something seriously wrong with her. But I`m curious as to what they stated? Were there reasons going for deciding upon that -- or going for that punishment?
GRACE: Matt Zarrell, aren`t they citing as the aggravating circumstance, heinous -- cruel and heinous?
ZARRELL: Yes. Yes, cruel, and depraves and heinous, especially particularly the gunshot after the 29 stab wounds is the biggest point of emphasis they`re making with that.
GRACE: And, Jean, you`re saying felony murder using burglary as the underlying felony?
CASAREZ: Yes, yes, that is a second theory, felony murder, and its cruelty is that aggravator that they`re going to be allowed to use at the end of this proceeding, if it goes forward to the death penalty phase.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you want, I can show you some pictures of him. Do you want to see pictures of him?
ARIAS: Part of me does and part of me doesn`t.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why, because you don`t want to remember?
ARIAS: No --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jodi.
ARIAS: There`s a morbid curiosity.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jodi.
ARIAS: I wanted to know how he died.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were you at Travis` house on Wednesday?
ARIAS: Absolutely not. I was -- I was nowhere near Mesa. I was nowhere near Phoenix. I wasn`t even close to him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What if I could show you proof you were there? Tell me if you change your mind.
ARIAS: I wasn`t there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can be honest with me, Jodi.
ARIAS: I was not at Travis` house. I was not.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I have pictures of you in Travis` bedroom with Travis, pictures of him, and it`s obvious you guys are having sex. Taking photos of each other. And they`re dated and time stamped on the day he died.
ARIAS: Are you sure it`s me? I mean -- because I was not there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jodi, it`s you. And you know it`s you. I know all the details of this case. The only thing I don`t know is why.
GRACE: Liz, let`s see the naked photo that the investigator was -- to which he was referring to. Not that one, the other naked photo. No, no, no, no. Not that one. No, not that one. Liz. Yes, OK, yes, Jodi, I`m sure that`s you. I couldn`t really tell from your rear end, but I could definitely tell from your face, that that would be you.
To Dr. Bill Manion, medical examiner joining me out of Philadelphia tonight.
Dr. Manion, Arias tried to tell police that she could explain her blood and hair at the scene because she had been in the home many, many times. But why would she have a bloody palm print mixed with his blood shortly after the dead body is found, they find that. And also her claim that she had cut herself again in his home. It wouldn`t explain Travis Alexander`s blood intermingles on her palm.
DR. BILL MANION, M.D., MEDICAL EXAMINER, BURLINGTON COUNTY, NJ: Exactly. Exactly. I mean, somebody you might buy the story that she had cut her leg shaving there because she had visited him. She may try to claim that he had raped her, that he had hurt her and bloodied her during a forceful rape. That might be part of the defense coming up.
But you`re absolutely right, the fact that their blood is mixed on that palm print, there`s no way I can account for that even with the most creative forensic thinking. There is no way I can come up with an alibi for that.
GRACE: Marlene in New York. What`s your question, dear?
MARLENE, CALLER FROM NEW YORK: Hi. Thanks for taking my call, Nancy. If the jury, god help us, believe that this is self-defense, what kind of punishment is she looking at? What kind of sentence?
GRACE: Well, Marlene in New York, I hate to be the harbinger of bad news, but self-defense is a complete defense. That would be an acquittal.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They`re going through your house right now. So are they going to find anything there that could make you bad for this?
ARIAS: I don`t think they would. I mean, there is nothing that could make me there. I mean that`s pretty --
GRACE: So, Matt Zarrell, a lot of bombshells in court today, but specifically this tape played in front of the jury. What else did Arias say caught on tape?
ZARRELL: Well, one thing that`s very interesting is that Arias says that she`s not a person who knows much about self-defense, citing that she took a self-defense class eight years ago. Another thing to note, Nancy, is there are two interviews. One interview was July 15, the day she was arrested, one was July 16, the day after she was arrested.
July 15, she says, I wasn`t there, I had nothing to do with it, I don`t know what`s going on. July 16 after a night in jail, suddenly she has this story about a man and a woman breaking in and killing Travis and then she runs away.
GRACE: When did the self-defense story emerge, Matt?
ZARRELL: It didn`t emerge until much later, Nancy. And in fact, Arias has not spoken publicly in self-defense, it`s only in defense motions that we discovered that not only is Arias claiming self-defense, but she is planning and may in fact testify.
GRACE: To Kessler and Manuelian. Unleash the lawyers, Randy Kessler, how badly would it damage them if they changed their defense yet again at this point, midstream, and said, you know what? It wasn`t self-defense, it was blind anger. It was heat of passion. I had been having sex with him all day long, literally. Here are the photos to prove it. And then he tells me he`s going to go to Cancun with another woman, and I just snapped.
KESSLER: Well, I think she`s desperate. I think she`s going to say whatever it takes. You know, her lawyer, I`m sure, has for a long time been saying don`t talk, don`t talk. And he`s got a client that likes to talk, and now at this point, that may be their only option. If she can convince, persuade the jury that she`s somehow likeable or more likeable than she`s being portrayed, that may be her only hope. This person is going to testify and, god help her, she`s got to --
GRACE: Manuelian?
KESSLER: She`s got to hope the jury loves her.
GRACE: Do you agree?
MANUELIAN: I -- I do agree. I think the -- I think the defense is trying to deflect the capital charge and more deflect it towards the second-degree murder charge. If they could show something similar to an imperfect self-defense or something that she snapped and the 27 stabs were because it was 27 times that she was abused physically, or something for the jury to, you know, sink their teeth into, I think they may --
GRACE: Right.
KESSLER: Say no to the capital punishment and go straight to the second murder.
GRACE: Everyone, "DR. DREW" up next. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. Until then, good night, friend.
" Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Moynihan
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Re: Travis Alexander of Mesa, AZ Found Murdered June 2008-Jodi Arias on Trial
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January 17, 2013, 03:53:10 PM »
Jodi Arias Murder Trial
Aired January 15, 2013 - 21:00 ET
JILLIAN BARBERIE REYNOLDS, CO-HOST: Tonight on DR. DREW ON CALL.
Is she guilty of murder? Jodi Arias` story has changed multiple times, a tangled web of lies that even she couldn`t keep up with.
Tonight, the pathology of liars. How liars do it, how they get good at it, and how they get caught.
And later, a night of underage drinking leads to an alleged rape of a 16-year-old girl of two teenage boys in Steubenville, Ohio. Tonight, a shocking documentary exposes the world of binge drinking by taking us into the lives of four young women devastated by it.
Let`s get started.
DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST: And welcome to the program. My co-host for the week, Jillian Barberie Reynolds.
And, Jillian, before we go out to Beth Karas, I want to play a sound bite from last night`s show. Remember we had -- well, somebody call in claiming she knew Jodi Arias?
REYNOLDS: Yes, of course.
PINSKY: OK. It was Veronica. Listen to this.
VERONICA, CALLER: Hey, I knew Jodi personally in Rancho Mirage, California. We worked together. She would be out in the parking lot refusing to go into work because she couldn`t get him on the phone. And I said, come on, Jodi, let`s go to work. She said, I can`t, Veronica. He`s the only man I want to with, he`s the only man I want to marry and have children with.
I had coworkers at the restaurant who said, Veronica, stay away from her. What are you talking? The pretty little girl, the young thing. Oh, no, Veronica, stay away from her. There`s something wrong with her!
PINSKY: Now, we haven`t been able to confirm this work relationship, but what Veronica said about Jodi was consistent with what others have said.
Jillian, it was kind of interesting, wasn`t it -- I find it fascinating that people around her, Travis` friends, her coworkers, all recoil, like they have a sense that there`s something not right.
REYNOLDS: Something is off. That`s what everyone seems to say about her. Although she was very good-looking and she engaged you with her looks at first, there was something a little strange when you went a little deeper.
PINSKY: And Veronica mentioned that she -- from her perspective, she was flat and didn`t seem to have access to emotions. We even see that in the video we`re looking in the courtroom. And not only is she flat, but then she adopts the attitudes and movements and sort of almost the appearances and the rhythmic activities, motor activities of people around her. You see that in the courtroom, which suggests really -- I`m not saying just emotionally. Like the self is not fully formed. She -- those kinds of people can be prone to rages or sort of disassociations where they don`t really remember where they are and act out in rages.
So, let`s hear about what happened in court today. I`ve got "In Session`s" Beth Karas.
Beth, what did happen today in court?
BETH KARAS, CORRESPONDENT, IN SESSION: Well, the big story today, Dr. Drew, was her statement to the police, the day she was arrested and the day after. She finished the interrogation on July 15. We started hearing it yesterday, we finished it today.
And then the day after, she wanted to continue the discussion, and that`s when she came up with a different version of what happened. It was no longer, "I wasn`t there, I would never hurt Travis." It was, "I was there, I heard him get killed, I didn`t see it." She said there were two intruders, a man and a woman.
She never gives a motive for why they would want to do this to Travis who was a very clean individual who didn`t deal in drugs and didn`t seem to have any reason for people to want to kill him this way. She says the woman wanted to kill her, the man didn`t. They gave her a chance -- Jodi could escape. But they said, don`t you ever, ever report this. We know where you live. Your family will be in danger.
And she went through a very detailed story of the killing of Travis, which to me sounded like she was actually talking about being there and doing it herself at times because she said he was bleeding a lot, he was still conscious, he was stabbed all over, he was shot in the head first, he was holding his head. And so, she may have been describing things that she did and saw.
PINSKY: It`s just so bizarre. When you hear these people lying -- Casey Anthony, for instance, used to lie like that, you hear these poor investigators trying to get something -- something -- of the truth from these women, and they just continue to fabricate. I don`t know, Beth, was there sort of a feeling in the courtroom about the stories she was telling, what they were watching?
KARAS: Well, here`s the problem. Everybody is sitting there listening to this, knowing that she`s admitting it, right? Right from the beginning, on the first day of the trial, her lawyer stood up and said she killed Travis, but she had to, they gave her no choice, it was in self- defense.
So here she is now incarcerated, now charged with first-degree murder and she`s making up a second version of what happened. First denial, now I was there.
This was her opportunity to say you guys got it all wrong. I shouldn`t be charged with first-degree murder. This guy was coming at me. I was defending myself.
And she doesn`t. She makes up another story.
So the jury is listening to this and they`ve got to be wondering, what`s going on here?
REYNOLDS: Well, and also to use that as a defense, you know, self- defense, at what point do you say, okay, this person is not threatening me anymore, is that after stab 18, after stab 25? I mean --
PINSKY: That`s what`s bizarre about it. Yes, that`s what`s so bizarre.
Listen, thank you, Beth, for that report.
But lying is the issue here, and that`s the thing I always try to get my head around, is what -- how could somebody lie so incredibly well?
So, joining us to discuss, Marcia Clark, former prosecutor and author of "Guilt By Degrees." Steve Kardian, former police detective. I also have criminal defense attorney Monica Lindstrom.
Monica, how hard is it to get the jury to make the leap from liar, which is what Beth was just telling us, everybody in the courtroom knew she was today, like a wild liar, from liar to murderer?
MONICA LINDSTROM, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, it`s not hard to make that leap at all because they`ve basically been presented with the evidence and the statements that she did kill him and she was lying. So there`s not really even a leap there, it`s a given. Everybody knows that she lied and she did kill him.
So the jury -- they`re looking at this and they`ve got to know that she`s got big problems about lying and telling the truth and making things up, and they`re probably just wondering, you know, like Bev said, what the heck is going on with her that forces her or makes her believe that it`s OK to lie and to do these things?
If she was my client, I know that I can`t get rid of those lies. I can`t wipe those out of the jury`s mind, so now I have to start thinking about what can I do to try to explain this? And that`s when I would start looking at people like you, Dr. Drew, and seeing, you know, is there an expert that can come on and do something here.
PINSKY: I`m not sure I could do -- I`m used to drug addicts lying. I could easily defend a drug addict lying because they lie and don`t even know they`re doing it. But in this situation where she has her faculties about her -- I`m going to Steve Kardian.
Steve, your profession is one that comes up against this all the time. I shake my head every time I read one of these investigations or see these video clips of someone being investigated and just crazy lying, you guys know when someone is lying? What`s going through an investigator`s head?
STEVE KARDIAN, FORMER POLICE DETECTIVE: Well, we go through every investigation/interrogation with the presumption that we know we`re going to be lied to. We know that, we take that as a fact.
And there`s three things we start out in the investigation. We know what we believe. We think we know what she wants us to believe. And then there lies the truth somewhere beyond that.
So it`s an interesting -- it`s like a chess game with the mind. What we have to do is keep them talking. We know that they`re going to be partial truths. We`ve got to dig deep and obtain those partial truths and turn them in to something that we can use to extract a confession.
Now, when we`re interviewing this individual, if we use common-sense tactics and we play our game really well, we`re going to extract, we`re going to break down and we`re going to get the truth.
If we throw a curveball, say we tell them something they know is not correct, then they`re going to go into denial.
So, our good investigative tactics will bring truth, the bad investigative tactics will bring more lies.
REYNOLDS: I have a question, and I`m just wondering, out of all of this. I mean, we already know she`s capable of shooting a human being, of slicing -- butchering a human being. The lying -- I feel like we`re hanging on to -- of course, she`s capable of telling a bunch of lies. So what is this -- what is this really about? Is this about, you know, the next level -- does it really matter?
PINSKY: I don`t think -- Marcia Clark, that`s why I want to go to you. I think that`s a great question to you. Which is, you`re a prosecutor, you`ve seen all these lies. There`s an admission of participation in the slaughter.
Does lying matter to someone like you?
MARCIA CLARK, PROSECUTED O.J. SIMPSON: Oh, yes.
PINSKY: Oh, yes.
CLARK: Oh, yes. I love those lies.
CLARK: I love those lies because you`re talking about this is proof that the person is unrepentant, is not contrite. A true abused victim who kills in the act of self-defense, even if it`s unreasonable belief in self defense will generally say, I did it, I`m sorry. I didn`t know what came over me. I mean, I was scared, I was this or that, whatever it was.
REYNOLDS: Or they`ll call the cops, Marcia. They`ll usually the cops.
CLARK: Yes, they`ll call the cops and turn themselves in.
PINSKY: Yes.
REYNOLDS: Because they didn`t do anything wrong.
CLARK: That`s right.
So these lies tell me self-defense? Horsepuckey. There`s no self- defense.
And, by the way, Jillian made a great point. You know, after the 17th time, the 18th time, how many times do you stab him and when do you finally get out of danger to the point you can stop stabbing him -- ridiculous.
REYNOLDS: Yes.
CLARK: So I love the lies and I love the ability to be able to say to the jury, this is no abuse victim. That`s not what they do. So, it does matter.
PINSKY: So, Steve, do you have a theory about what this woman is? I mean, I know you`ve seen people sort of black out when they become violent and you`ve dealt with all kinds of character and character problems. What`s your theory on this woman?
KARDIAN: It`s aligned with sociopathic behavior. That`s the only thing that comes to mind. She has no empathy. She has no guilt for what she did.
PINSKY: Yes.
KARDIAN: And she`s using the self-defense theory. And we know every state in the United States has a primary aggressor law.
PINSKY: Yes.
I want to thank Beth Karas.
Next, we will talk to one of Travis` friends.
And later, more bizarre video from late testimony in court today.
I`ll be right back.
JODI ARIAS: My phone died so I wasn`t getting back to anybody. I drove 100 miles in the wrong direction, over 100 miles, thank you very much. So, yes. Remember New Mexico? It was a lot like that, only you weren`t here to prevent me from going into the three digits. So fun, fun. Tell you all about that later.
PINSKY: That was part of a voicemail left by Jodi on Travis` cell after she had killed him. Monica, I want to get your reaction to that.
LINDSTROM: You know, this really didn`t surprise me that she actually called and left a voicemail after the fact, because it goes with all of her lying so far. She was creating an alibi. She drove up to Utah to see another boyfriend.
So that in and of itself did not surprise me. But what we`ve noticed is her behavior with these lies. And in this voicemail, her voice sounds very high pitched, she`s talking a little quicker and she clears her throat twice.
When we compare that to her other interviews where she`s kind of calm. She talks quickly but she`s more calm.
I guess I would ask you, Dr. Drew, looking at this and looking at her behavior between the voicemail and the interviews, do you think that there is -- if I put you on the stand, there is anything there that you could maybe explain to the jury --
PINSKY: Yes.
LINDSTROM: -- this is why she acts this way?
PINSKY: I don`t know about this is why. I have two theories flying around in my head. But, yes, you`re so right about how she sounds. She sounds hurried, and sort of like she has somewhere to go --
REYNOLDS: Fun, fun.
PINSKY: She`s very intentional on what she`s doing. Not the way somebody would leave a message about, hey, sorry I drove 100 miles. You`d be sort of --
REYNOLDS: She was laying out her alibi.
PINSKY: She was laying it very clearly -- in a clear way. It was very interesting.
I would say, I was like Steve, I think psychopathy, sociopathy is a very distinct possibility here. We`ve heard over and over again that he doesn`t have feelings, that people recoil from her.
When people don`t have normal feelings, it`s a strange thing to be around. You feel like they can`t relate to you, you feel like their mind content isn`t what it should be, and it can recoil some people versus she is someone who disassociates and in those dissociative moments has severe rages. That`s someone who had severe abuse in childhood.
While the psychopath or sociopath, particularly with sociopath, is something that you`re actually born with. There`s a certain part of the brain that doesn`t work.
REYNOLDS: Why do people that have traumatic child experiences go on to do something like this and some do nothing at all? Is that a gene?
PINSKY: They do research on that? We`ll be able to stop them if we`ve got to know.
Yes, their resiliency factors, their genetic factors, and then how it`s perceived, what kind of resiliency and recovery that was from it. Plenty of people have these conditions and are amongst us and do just fine.
You were abused.
REYNOLDS: Sure. But I would never -- I have a question --
PINSKY: Yes, from Twitter.
REYNOLDS: Yes, from Twitter, which is a good one. It says, do you think -- this is from Pamela. Do you think that Jodi will get the death penalty or life because of her good looks?
It sounds like a trivial question, but I pointed this out last night. We have said beauty kills victims. I have an issue with that. Yes, she`s an attractive woman, but I hate -- why is that moniker on there?
PINSKY: And not only that, is it going to affect the jury in terms of their probably of going to the death penalty.
Marcia Clark, I`ll go to you with that. You also had something else to say. Go ahead.
CLARK: I do. I had a question for you, Drew. But, first of all, to answer your question, yes, it does affect juries. It really does. When a defendant doesn`t look like a killer, when a defendant looks more innocent, especially a woman, it`s more likely a jury is going to find a way to show mercy.
I remind you all Lizzie Borden who was proven, I think, seven ways from Sunday, to have murdered both of her parents, was acquitted by the jury. So, people don`t -- you know, there is this kind of lesser desire by the jury to either punish a woman or certainly send her the death penalty.
PINSKY: Well, and, Marcia, I will say that there`s actually research that shows the more baby-like, the more estrogenized a woman`s face is, the more inclement a jury tends to be.
REYNOLDS: That girl from Italy.
PINSKY: That`s right.
You had a question, Marcia? Go ahead.
CLARK: I had a question to you, Drew. I wanted to ask you this. You know, I think that the defense is clearly going to push for exactly what you`re talking about, the dissociative state, and that would be their best defense. To say I suffered trauma as a child. By the way, Casey Anthony, right, daddy molested me --
PINSKY: Yes.
CLARK: -- and therefore I have this problem.
They`re going to go for that, I`m sure they will, and they`ll call someone like you.
PINSKY: I can`t wait.
CLARK: After you said that, let`s say, doctor, you`re on the stand. I`m the defense attorney. You`re my favorite witness of all time. And dissociative state, rage-induced, she doesn`t know what she did, she can`t remember.
But after -- but, you know, at some point she wakes up and sees what she`s done. Then she splits and goes to bed with his buddy.
PINSKY: Yes, I would say --
CLARK: How do you square those?
PINSKY: If I were trying to help you with the case, and I did not have any direct information about the individual, I would postulate that perhaps she disassociates into multiple sort of personalities and really sort of -- not that she has multiple personalities necessarily but then she goes into a compartmentalized state where she literally doesn`t remember what she did, she remembers that she`s angry, she compartmentalizes her life with him over here, and goes about her business.
It`s disgusting, it`s not OK, and we can talk about whether someone has volitional control over that kind of thing and whether they`re aware of that kind of thing, but it`s something -- I agree with you. I think it would be very wise for the defense to go there, and I can`t wait to see if they do it.
Quickly, I want to introduce Dave Hall. He`s one of Travis` friends. He joins us.
Dave, what did you know about, Judy? Did you have that sort of recoil feeling that so many reported about her?
DAVE HALL, TRAVIS ALEXANDER`S FRIEND: You know, not too many of us knew much about Jodi. She wasn`t very talkative. She didn`t give us a whole lot of background on her life, her childhood, her hobbies other than a little bit about photography. And so, we really didn`t know too much about her while she was dating Travis.
PINSKY: Did she seem -- people on Twitter often complain that we step on our guests. There is a delay and we kind of always step on each other. It`s nothing we can do anything about, I apologize to our viewers.
But let me say, is there any sense she wasn`t having feelings. That`s something that`s been reported, that something about her feelings, her ability to feel anxious or identify feelings in others was somehow impaired.
HALL: You know, she might have had feelings, I just never saw highs and lows. I never saw deep despair and I never saw a joyous reaction from her. It was more melancholy. She spent an entire week at my house when her and Travis came up to visit, and the entire week, I might have gotten three or four sentences out of her. So, there just wasn`t a whole lot to go on.
PINSKY: That didn`t strike you as bizarre?
I mean, three sentences in a week with somebody? Did you have any sense of who she was?
HALL: You know, I chalked it up to her being shy. I thought, you know, maybe she`s the type of girl that until she gets to know you she doesn`t start to open up, and I didn`t want to overwhelm her with a ton of conversation and maybe, you know, drive her away.
So I just thought, you know what, we`ll be nice to her and just wait until she feels comfortable opening up.
PINSKY: Well, Dave, I appreciate that you overwhelmed her beyond three sentences. That`s -- wow.
REYNOLDS: I was sorry for you loss. And I was going to ask, did you ever say to Travis red flag? Because I know a couple of his other friends did, and he said, it`s all good.
PINSKY: OK, hold that thought.
I will go to you Dave when we get back from commercial break.
And also, I want to take your calls about Jodi, 855-DRDREW5.
And later binge drinking. There`s -- there you are -- a tape about that.
Be right back.
DR. BILL LLOYD, PATHOLOGIST: She planned it, she photographed it, she sexed him up and then she knocked him off.
PINSKY: That was pathologist, Dr. Bill Lloyd, from our show last night.
Steve, I`m going to ask you about that in just a second, but first, I want Dave to answer Jillian`s question about red flags.
Did any -- you or any of your friends that week pull Travis aside and say, hey, we`re seeing something here?
HALL: You know, there was nothing in his behavior or her behavior that made us feel like we needed to warn him, hey, look, you need to be aware of this. He was a strong guy, very physically fit, very tough guy. We figured, hey, if something goes south, Travis can handle himself. In retrospect, we were wrong.
PINSKY: Yes, but why were you thinking that -- when I`m around my couple friend, I don`t think -- well, if she becomes violent, I guess my friends can manage it. That`s not how I think about my couple friends at all.
REYNOLDS: Or you`re doing it in retrospect now because of what happened, are you thinking that?
HALL: Yes.
PINSKY: In retrospect.
All right. Steve, I`m going to go back to you now and talk about Dr. Lloyd`s note about sexing him up and doing him in. Again, we`re all shaking our head like what kind of animal does that? You know, literally, we can`t believe it. Have you seen cases like this?
KARDIAN: Yes. We see the level of jealousy that was exhibited here. The stalking behavior, as a matter of fact, January is National Stalking Awareness Month. She was a true stalker, from what we can gather.
PINSKY: Yes.
KARDIAN: And we understand there may have been another love interest in his life. And quite possibly she had relations with him, and maybe she posed the question to him with regard to their future, and it may have set her off. She went there prepared to take care of business.
PINSKY: Is there anything about a woman -- really, we`re talking about the fatal attraction thing. People see that film and that happens.
I always think of those people as having severe character problems, heavy trauma survivorship in their own childhood. Is that what you`ve seen, Steve, in cases you`ve seen like this?
KARDIAN: Well, you know, we don`t get so much into the psychological aspect of it, Dr. Drew. Of course, we see that no normal person could commit an act like this.
PINSKY: Right.
KARDIAN: But yes, we see a lot of mental illness, a lot of emotional abuse, a lot of history, past history, that causes something like this. So, to answer your question, yes.
REYNOLDS: Do you think women more so are the passionate ones to end up doing these crimes?
PINSKY: Stalking usually grows out of what can be conceived of as love addiction. People out there in mental health may cringe when I say that, but it`s a way of helping the public understand what this is. Or you become obsessed with somebody, you can`t imagine living without them.
It`s an obsession, and when they`re gone -- men don`t -- aren`t as apt to develop that level.
REYNOLDS: When women do have that and they`re obsessed, when does it cross the line to rage and to murder? I mean --
PINSKY: That`s the individual case. It`s usually not the case. Not every stalker. Not every --
REYNOLDS: Right.
PINSKY: We`re going to do more on this the next time. I`ve got to take a quick break.
Also, if you are an alcoholic, if you binge drink. We`re going to discuss that later on in the show and what that -- the implication of that, those sorts of behavior is for young people.
REYNOLDS: How much is binge drinking? For women, I was shock.
PINSKY: When is it a problem, what are kids up to today, and also more on Jodi Arias. We`ll be right back.
ARIAS: I don`t really remember except Travis was screaming. I think I got knocked out but I don`t think I was out long. I know I got knocked in the head and I`d gotten knocked in the head once by my dad when he was just really mad and it wasn`t like -- actually, he didn`t knock me in the head, he just pushed me against the wall and I hit my head and I fell.
But anyway, he in this case, I think it was similar because he was screaming, and I was by the bathtub and he was holding his head and there were people there.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In this case, I think it was similar because he was screaming, and I was by the bathtub, and he was holding his head, and there were two people there.
PINSKY: That was just so much in that interrogation shape where Jodi claims intruders came in and killed Travis. I mean, she certainly wasn`t screaming after he cut -- she cut his throat. And the business about me hit by (ph) dad very revealing and interesting.
Now, Jillian, I want to be clear that people don`t get the thought that, somehow, we are in any way casting a wide net and saying that people that had abuse or had emotional issues or had behavioral (ph) disorders become violent. You had a history. You had a trauma history.
JILLIAN BARBERIE REYNOLDS, TV HOST: Sure. Yes.
PINSKY: And nothing like this ever developed.
REYNOLDS: My goodness. I mean, you know, of course not. And like many people had issues growing up of molestation but got through it and worked through it. And, I think, probably, it was related to our next segment, binge drinking. That may, you know, -- I could do some correlations there. But as far as this out, no --
REYNOLDS: That`s an obsession. I`ve never been that kind of girl. I think if the guy is not into me, I`m not -- I don`t want to be chasing up - - you know what I mean? Why waste your time?
PINSKY: And there`s biology and psychology --
REYNOLDS: Sure.
PINSKY: -- someone crosses over that zone where there`s no boundaries between self and other.
REYNOLDS: And there`s no turning back.
PINSKY: And when the other disappears, they are shattered. They fall apart. They can`t handle it. They become enraged. Let`s go to a phone call. Wanda in New Hampshire -- Wanda.
WANDA, NEW HAMPSHIRE: Hi, Dr. Drew. I feel like you`re talking about my daughter, and I was just wondering what I can do to help her.
PINSKY: What`s her story? Does she have abused? Or was she somebody more in the psychopathic spectrum or she doesn`t -- she tortured animals, doesn`t appreciate other people have feelings?
WANDA: She was adopted and she had some trauma from that.
PINSKY: How old was she when she was adopted?
WANDA: She was five, but prior to that --
PINSKY: Well, there`s a whole population out there of sort of (INAUDIBLE) kind of reaction attachment -- reactive attachment disorder. Does she have that?
WANDA: Definitely. Yes.
PINSKY: Yes. And so, literally --
WANDA: And she has bipolar.
PINSKY: OK. Please get her treatment. This is what people don`t understand. Attachment and connection to other people is where we come up with our theory of minds, where we come up with empathy. It`s where we learn to have feeling and axis feelings and understand that feelings exist in ourselves and other people.
And when kids don`t have any available adult, when they`re abandoned like so many kids in other countries who got adopted back to this country suffered, they go through critical windows of development and they no longer can develop that in themselves. So, please work on treatment for her.
REYNOLDS: It can be a happy ending, too, because I was adopted and things turned out great, even though Dr. Drew begs to differ. Paulissa in Canada.
PINSKY: Again, people have to listen very carefully when I talk. I`m not saying all adopted kids are going to have -- I`m just saying a kid that`s adopted at age five --
REYNOLDS: Of course.
PINSKY: -- that may have had minimal adult contact to first five years of life who never attached to any human, that`s a significant problem. Paulissa in Canada.
PAULISSA, CANADA: Hi, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Hi, Paulissa.
PAULISSA: I just want to say I`ve been abused in past relationships and not once have I ever thought of killing somebody in any shape, form or whatever. I think Jodi Arias, every movement that she does have been calculated, all her lies, her soft demeanor voice. She`s a sociopath. And this is what sociopaths do. She`s a manipulator. Everything she`s done has been calculated from the get-go.
PINSKY: And Marcia, I think that`s -- would be your point of view is you went in to interrogate this woman, no?
MARCIA CLARK, PROSECUTED O.J. SIMPSON: Yes, exactly right, Drew. Exactly right. She, to me, is really pretty classic. It`s true that maybe some sociopaths were abused as children and some were not, but they`re still sociopaths, regardless. And she is a classic case. The kind of lies, the glibness with which she lies, the actions that she took to try and cover her tracks would show, really, a total lack of emotion.
And I`m sure there was some anger. I`m sure there was some rage when she was stabbing him 29 times and everything else that she horrifically did. But that doesn`t mean, because she was angry when she did it, that she was dissociative. And, that would be my attack as a prosecutor.
Yes, I`m sure she was angry. Did that mean that she has a mental illness that qualifies legally in any way, shape, or form? And my answer to the jury would be absolutely not. No. She`s a socio path and she was angry. You can be both.
PINSKY: Does she deserve the death penalty?
CLARK: See, that`s a different story. In California, at least, in Los Angeles, we would look at the history of this person in addition to the presenting crime. And generally speaking, we don`t even seek the death penalty, unless, there is some kind of criminal history in the background, that this is not the only -- I`m not minimizing it, please understand, but that there -- this presenting crime is not the only thing in their background.
We usually look for something more. Now, does that mean they couldn`t -- we wouldn`t seek it? No, but it`s less likely. Will the jury go for it? As a prosecutor, does it offend me to go for it? If you have a death penalty in your state, it doesn`t offend me under these circumstances to seek the death penalty. I sincerely doubt the jury will give it, though.
PINSKY: And Monica, I`m going to go to you to talk about a defense here real quick. Here`s a Twitter comment, "One hand washes the other regarding Jodi. If she`s really a sick as she seems to be," this is from Mike Keating (ph), "then he knew it and used her viciously." Would that be a kind of a defense strategy?
MONICA LINDSTROM, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, it`s a good point because, you know, there`s -- the prosecution is saying that she was obsessed with him, but they`re kind of glossing over the fact that he called her, he sent her text messages, and even though they broke up, they continued this sexual relationship.
So, it is kind of tit for tat. He could have made her go away. He could have not invited her into his home. He could have not continued this relationship with her, but he did. Now, does that mean he deserves what he got? Absolutely not. But I think it`s something that the jury needs to know because they need to know the full picture, and that`s part of the story. That`s part of the picture.
REYNOLDS: It is, but I think, you know, just as adults we get into situations in life, and, you know, we`ve all been scorned or someone -- you just -- you move on.
PINSKY: Yes. You don`t allow that to be a motivation for something disgusting and heinous. Oh, Monica, don`t check your Twitter. People get very upset about those sorts of things. Blaming the victim really gets people upset.
OK. Thank you to Monica Lindstrom, Steve Cardin, Dave Hall.
" Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Moynihan
Former Moderator
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Posts: 44735
Re: Travis Alexander of Mesa, AZ Found Murdered June 2008-Jodi Arias on Trial
Reply #59 on:
January 17, 2013, 03:55:42 PM »
Jodi Arias Trial: 'If I Killed Travis, I Would Beg For The Death Penalty'
January 15, 2013
" Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Moynihan
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Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum
High Profile Crimes and Trials (not missing persons)
Jodi Arias trial - for the murder of Travis Alexander
> Topic:
Travis Alexander of Mesa, AZ Found Murdered June 2008-Jodi Arias on Trial
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