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Topic: Neptune Archetype (Read 11051 times)
Active Member
Posts: 246
Re: Neptune Archetype
Reply #135 on:
Dec 19, 2013, 07:14 PM »
Hi Everyone,
I was just reading what turned out to be a good example of disillusionment. Neptune is in Pisces, right? Here is one tale:
It's rather long but fits the Neptune illusion and disillusionment theme we examined.
Most Active Member
Posts: 888
Re: Neptune Archetype
Reply #136 on:
Dec 21, 2013, 08:22 PM »
Hi Rad,
At the time that you read our assignments and give feedback, could you please see my Reply #123 where I have asked several questions regarding the Neptune archetype.
Thanks so much.
Last Edit: Dec 22, 2013, 04:09 AM by Linda
Most Active Member
Posts: 17075
Re: Neptune Archetype
Reply #137 on:
Dec 22, 2013, 09:35 AM »
Hi Linda,
Quote from: Linda on Dec 21, 2013, 08:22 PM
Hi Rad,
At the time that you read our assignments and give feedback, could you please see my Reply #123 where I have asked several questions regarding the Neptune archetype.
Thanks so much.
Hi Linda,
I went ahead and read through your whole analysis of the Neptune in Scorpio in the 3rd House at the height of the 2nd Individuated evolutionary stage of development. Your EA analysis is spot on Linda. It is as accurate as it is totally sound in it's EA reasoning with one exception:
" The Soul is very much able to "appear normal" for its own manipulative purposes, yet living a lie does not conceal the inner vibration that it really desires to rebel against everything external to itself."
Relative to the 2nd stage Individuated the Soul will not desire in anyway to appear normal: just the opposite.
Then you quoted me with subsequent questions that I did not see until now: sorry for that Linda.
Rad, your quote:
He spoke about different natural plants that had/ have inherent chemicals that then affect the physiology of the brain when ingested that naturally induce expanded states of consciousness. These expanded states induced in this natural way, he said, are permanent: they are sustained. He contrasted that with artificial man made drugs, chemicals, like LSD that do indeed alter one's consciousness in all sorts of ways but that those altered states do not remain once the drug wears off. He personally was initiated into the peyote way by a traditional Navajo Indian for a period of time in which he lived in the high chaparral of northeast New Mexico.
1. Regarding the tendency to escape one's reality through heavy chemical drug use, could this be a subconscious desire to return to Source?
Yes, but the key is 'subconscious'. Consciously many in this state with Neptune in Scorpio in the 3rd would reject the Source outright to the point of using the drugs as a statement to that 'fact'.
2. Are these desires purely used as a means to evolve the Soul's separating desires by breaking through the fabricated egocentric identity?
In the sense that these types of desires, in that EA state of development, are used by the Soul to realize, at some point, the total delusion it has created by itself by way of all the rationalizations for the drug use in the first place. The disillusionment necessary to arrive at that point of realization can be extremely severe in nature including the loss of it's physical life because of the drug use.
3. If a Soul is avoiding dealing with life through drugs and drink, yet is finding some satisfaction through a feeling of surrender or letting go, is that state true rapture or revelation, or artificial and even more deluded?
Artificial and even more deluded. Of course the drugs can create that false sense of rapture or revelation while the consciousness is infused with the drug itself. Once the drugs are removed that false state is realized at some point, and in some way.
4. Does the Soul who abuses drugs and drink need to reach some sort of crisis point before it can be aligned with reality and healed? What is one way that crisis can play out?
Yes. It can play out in many, many ways. For example a person who is using a blow torch like fire to create an extract of marijuana or hashish and in the process of so doing the tank containing the propane being used for the torch blows up. The person is now aflame and burning up. They either die or are scarred for life. The intensity of this could then lead to the necessary realizations: or not !
5. These kinds of problems seem to take a long time or a whole life time (or more) to work through, with the Soul continually going back to the drug/drink cycle due to the psychological and physical addiction. Does healing for these Souls come about purely through Grace?
It does not come through Grace at all, and at no time. Grace is only directed to a Soul who has made some kind of real effort to change something where the self determination precedes an act of Grace.
Your EA analysis Linda was just excellent.
Bravo !
God Bless, Rad
Most Active Member
Posts: 888
Re: Neptune Archetype
Reply #138 on:
Dec 22, 2013, 12:30 PM »
Thank you so much Rad for your answers to my questions and for your feedback.
I only sent the questions yesterday after discussing them with Skywalker during our Skype conversation.
I love this step by step process whereby we can internally realize the truth of these Neptune teachings through chart practice.
This Neptune archetype learning, and your teaching, is just so spectacular!
Last Edit: Dec 22, 2013, 01:04 PM by Linda
Active Member
Posts: 136
Re: Neptune Archetype
Reply #139 on:
Dec 23, 2013, 05:58 AM »
Hi Rad and group,
Here´s my go, I did a few houses and/or signs, some with more detail than others. Thanks for the opportunity to keep on learning.
Neptune and delusions of being directed by God.
Why would a person delude him/herself that God is telling them what to do when it´s not the case, in the first place?
*As a form of escaping a subjective reality that is insatisfactory by creating delusions/fantasies about the self, others in general or one´s circumstances.
*Typical Neptunian confusion relative to what is actually real from an ultimate point of view and what is not real.
*A lack of boundaries relative to where the personal egocentric structure ends and others, the Soul and/or God begins.
*A vested interest in maintaining separating desires and a separate identity as the ego and/or Soul fears being dissolved and disappearing or, being reduced to nothing, also a reflection of the fear of change and ultimately death, which are Putonian dynamics, relative to the dual desire nature of the Soul, to separate and return to the Source of creation.
The concept or notion of God in most of the world we live in and for most people is generally a patriarchal distortion and man made image of a God that is perfect yet judgemental towards those who sin. It is an external God vs an energy that is within.
If all there is, is the Source, because the Source created everything, then how can there be anything but the Source? Simply put, there cannot be. What there is, is the Ilusion of self as a separate being from that Source or God or Universal life force. There can be nothing but God if God is the Source of all creation. Therefore all that separates us from the Source, is…us.
It´s our free will that separates us from the Source as we use our free will to pursue separating desires. Until we choose to consciously re-align with Source energy, we will continue to create cycles of illusions and disillusionment as we pursue our desires of a personal separating nature until they are totally exhausted and all that is left is the desire to return home.
Many people will not think consciously it´s the Source which is inspiring them or telling them to do something but, will think/feel that "they are on the "good side" or right. When polarized, others must be "the bad guys" or wrong. Therefore they have a justification for their potentially deluded actions. They will simply assume (Neptune) that they must be "right". Specially those in the consensus stage of evolution which follow along without much critical thinking, if any at all. For example, I know someone (consensus 3/Individuated 1)who had the belief that Jews and Christians were "the good ones" and all other people from the various religions of the world were "the bad ones", specially Muslims. This is what he was taught and lead to believe in and, like him there are many others who assume they are on the "right side". These people are grown adults with families and sometimes occupy important leadership positions in society. This particular person has Neptune in the 9th house.
*Neptune in the Ninth house or Sagittarius can delude themselves that they are acting on behalf of God when they attempt to convince others of their own subjective beliefs as ultimate truth. In the consensus stage of evolution I can think of no better example than the religious people of various religions killing others in the name of God. We had some of the Christians which tortured and killed in the name of God throughout history or, recently we had people like George W Bush who used God´s name to sell the wars they initiated. At the same time they said they were acting on behalf of God, they were also calling their enemies evil. Whether they believed in what they were saying or not is anyone´s guess. What we do know and should all be able to discern is that one of God´s commandments in the Bible is: "thou shall not kill" and yet these leaders are killing people by the tens of thousands or more in the name of that same God. This to me is beyond delusional and the fact that people do not question these things is unbelievable and, a reflection of the ignorance and inability of the masses to think critically for themselves.
This is the danger with the Sagittarius/Gemini axis as people can convince themselves and others that their beliefs are in fact true, while the Gemini polarity spreads the word like wildfire without any proof (inconjunct to scorpio) of the information being factual. Virgo discrimintation and Pisces simplicity of letting things simply be what they are in essence, can help a great deal in avoiding taking action on false beliefs and perpetuating false knowledge/delusions.
Another example of Neptune in Sagittarius/9th house deluding themselves that they are acting on behalf of God is by desiring to convince and convert others to their philosophy or religion. A good example would be the Muslims who believe that unless you are of Muslim faith that you will go to Hell. They delude themselves that God wants them to convert others to Islam and follow up on those beliefs by actively attempting to scare others that they will go to hell unless they convert. Just like the Jehova witnesses who say that unless one reads the Bible and is part of that particular belief system, that one will not be allowed to enter the kingdom of God. They delude themselves that they are acting on behalf of God by saving others from their ignorance about God and, by saving their Souls from eternal suffering in Hell, when in fact they are delusional and ignorant themselves.
*Neptune in the Second house can delude itself by projecting the belief that God is the motivating factor behind it´s desire to sustain themselves. In the first stage of the Individuated stage of evolution, the Soul will be rebelling against consensus/mainstream social values and beliefs unless they directly and truthfully represent their inherent individuality but, they will still feel the need to be accepted by society. They will do their best to "think freely" but to fit in at the same time, even if that means living a double life relative to their REAL thoughts, ideals, beliefs and so on. They can literally have very different inner realities then what they show most people. Even their family members and close friends may have no idea of how they really think/feel about things, only those that are of a similar vibration or of like mind will be trusted enough in order for them to truly reveal themselves. Relative to resources, in most of the developed world, people see money as the resource that sustains them and, that resource will be highly valued and given immense importance or ultimate meaning.
Neptune in the second house may delude themselves that God is "telling" them in some way that they should generate and accumulate as much material wealth as possible. They may convince themselves that having as much material resources as possible, will allow them to help others in need. Some may use this mentality as a justification towards others and themselves to justify their dishonest ways of making money. Some may convince themselves that since it´s for the higher good, or that is what God wants for or from them, that it´s ok to steal, cheat, hoard, be stingy or simply fanatical about money. Of course when time comes for them to actually share their resources, they may use God as a justification not to share their resources with another because God wants them to accumulate as much as possible for some other reason that is of utmost importance. Usually only to the benefit of the Second house Neptune person since he or she is simply using God to justify their own ulterior agenda. Sometimes they can and will actually believe in their delusions to the point of convincing themselves and others that their motives are pure and for the benefit of all.
Neptune in the second house can use God as an excuse to stay limited to a very basic approach to any situation or life itself, with no need to change things or evolve in any way since "God created them how they are".
Others can simply value the material and sensual pleasures of life so much and, convince themselves that since they are good people, that God wants them to have as much material comfort as possible, thus justifying distorted behaviour relative to material resources, sexual energy, the intake of food etc.
At key points in their evolutinary journey, Neptune in the second house people can have their true values exposed. This can be thru the loss of resources, which when happens, their emotional reactions will show them and others their real personal/ulterior motives or, thru others uncovering and revealing the true nature of their motives. After that they may choose to have new and deeper values or attempt to re-gain what they lost.
*Neptune in the Fifth house may delude themselves that they are acting on behalf of God or the Source of all things by giving themselves unlimited rights to enjoy life in any way they feel like. This can take the form of them getting romantically involved with a very large number of people while deluding themselves that they are in fact helping those people in some way. Some may delude themselves that they are here to "share" some special quality they personally possess with the people they get involved with. They may delude themselves that God wants them to express divine love to the other when in fact they are using the other to polish their own sense of specialness and importance.
They may use their creative talents in a way that they consider to be for God or for the good of all but in fact is simply a way to gain attention and/or recognition. They may use their gifts to attract others to support their personal agendas while convincing themselves and others that it is for the benefit of all and that is what God wants them to do.
They may wish to educate their children or if they are in the teaching profession, to educate children in ways that reflect their own core values and desires, all the while convincing themselves and others that it is what God would want or is the very best for the child.
They may delude themselves that no one can perform better than they can, because God wants that for and from them, therefore they may step on others and diminish their value while promoting their own self importance and value in ways that are pretty delusional.
They may believe that God thinks they are special in God´s own eyes and, give themselves the right to always be the center of attention, making themselves unbearable to others as a result. Just as they may give themselves the right to any form of personal expression they desire.
They may take huge risks and put their families in danger such as in gambling their resources away or even think they have the God given right to waste their families resources or the resources of others in general. They may think they have a special destiny to fulfill and are special and God will provide for them by a stroke of luck at the casino or by winning the lottery or in some sort of risky business venture.
They may delude themselves that they have a special connection to God and that they themselves are a gift to humanity and those they interact with.
They may believe they are doing a creative project on behalf of God, or to spread the word of God thru an expressive art form or simply thru pure dramatization, when in fact they are not.
They may believe that they are God in some cases and act as if thou they are superior to everyone and everything else in the world.
On a positive note they may really give all they have when they have a cause and purpose that touches their hearts.
At key points they will be disillusioned by finding out their larger than life sense of importance is stemming from a need to be acknowledged as special and, realize they are simply people, just like everyone else and not God´s gift to humanity. They may desire then to align with truth and become a true expression of divinity in whatever way the Source directs them to do so or, they may attempt to create new rationalizations to maintain their illusions about their specialness.
*Neptune in the Third house may delude themselves that they are more intelligent than others for some God given reason. They may delude themselves that God wants them to lie to others for their own benefit, for example, how often the mainstream media lie and distort the truth or many in the Government will lie to the public and say it´s for the benefit of all, not to create panick. They may convince themselves that God wants them to study and acquire as much empirical knowledge as possible, thus feeding their desire for continuous growth and expansion of an intellectual nature. That their environment is all pure and one big thing that is interconnected, therefore fundamentally good or safe. They may delude themselves that they are here to teach others and that they are more intelligent than others, thinking that God made them smarter than others for that very reason. They may delude themselves that only they know something or that they know better and that it´s simply God´s will that things turned out that way. They may believe that they have the God given right to share knowledge that they should not, such as secrets that others shared with them or information that can have a detrimental effect on others. They may think they have the God given right to manipulate whatever they feel in their environment or to manipulate the minds of others thru false information such as in a school teacher or parent who teaches falsehoods to a child, all the while thinking they are doing some form of service. They may believe that God wants them to write a book or make a movie that can effect the way others think and, believe that is what God wants from them, when in fact they are attempting to gain support for an idea they may have. They may believe that God wants them to study endlessly and feel the need to know everything they can about their environment, universe or inner self, with the end result of becoming totally confused and lost with too much information. They may delude themselves that God wants and needs them to assimilate some body of knowledge before they can be ready to act and go in whatever direction they are headed. To assimilate as much information possible without discriminating. To always be open to every possibile connection and oportunity to communicate with someone or something and learn about their environment and, what connects what to what, who to who and so on… turning them into "human radios" and sometimes idle chatters or gossippers. They might manipulate the realities of others and what others think, by manipulating or distorting the flow of information, thus letting others believe whatever they want as long as it serves their own self interest. On a positive note they may give alot of themselves in order to help others get some sort of education or free flow of information, thus really being well intended and serving the Source in that way.
At key points they will be disillusioned as they are confronted by others who desire to know the real truth, not their opinion or flawed information, giving them the chance to really be honest relative to whatever it is they are not being truthful about.
*Neptune in the Sixth house can delude themselves by thinking they are doing God´s work when they help others, even if they are not truly helping others but only themselves. For example doctors which see themselves as Godly since they "save people´s lives". Others may think that their new techniques or theories or pharmaceuticals are a gift from God when in fact what they are doing is making some corporation and themselves a lot of money or they are feeding their own ego´s by believing they are some sort of saviour and in some cases think they are God or Godly. Others may stick to petty jobs and delude themselves that it´s God´s wish for them to serve the whole in that way, as an excuse to not realize their potential and do more than what they are currently doing. Others may have sado-masoquistic behaviour and believe it´s God´s desire for them to suffer since, they are impure or sinners in some way as defined by the society they live in. This would be specially true in the consensus and individuated levels of evolution as the mind is still very much influenced and conditioned by the garden of eden myth which has effected most of the "civilized" world today. Because of such myths and similar dynamics operating worldwide today and in the past few thousand years, they can believe that God wants them to punish others for their sins or impurities. They may create the delusion that God wants them to purify others and that it´s their job to do so, thinking something in the line of "it´s a dirty job but someone´s gotta do it".
Because of their own inner guilt, natural or man made and, their need to atone for the guilt they feel, they may believe that God wants them to be sick and have bad health or constant crisis as a result. Neptune in the sixth house may also delude themselves that God wants them to sacrifice themselves for others they serve in some way or if they are an employer or leader, that God has given them the right or responsibility to sacrifice others as they themselves find necessary. On a positive note they can truly do their very best for others as there can be so much sensitivity with this combination that the person can´t bear the overwhelming feedback/criticism from others and self criticism when they fail in some way.
At key points they can become aware of their own self defeating psychology which has lead to personal failures and weaknesses. They will have the chance to stop creating crisis for themselves thru very honest self analysis and, re-align with truth by allowing themselves to improve one step at a time and move towards Source energy.
*Neptune in the 8th house may delude themselves that they are doing God´s will when they hurt others by defending themselves or others close to them. They may believe that in order to set things right, they have to "right the wrongs" done to them or others they love. In effect they may convince themselves that revenge is what God wants from them and that justice will not be had until they avenge themselves or those they feel have been victimized in some way. They may convince themselves that killing is right and what God wants them to do. They may convince themselves that they have the right to the resources of others and that God gave them the right to take whatever they desire, no matter who it may hurt. They may convince themselves that they have a God given right to empower themselves by whatever means they can, specially if they carry deep wounds and have an attitude of victimization. This can take the form of extreme abuses of power over others, to the point of taking a life or sexually abusing someone or just hurting others because they can. They may believe in a God given right to have the power and freedom to pursue any desire they may have. They may convince themselves that God wants them to fight evil on it´s behalf thus giving themselves the right to do whatever is necessary to fight those evil forces, no matter how extreme their actions may be. Neptune in the 8th house may use God as an excuse for their own insecure behaviour which may lead them to sabotage the efforts of others who threaten them in some way, even if those people are close to them and well intended. Some could commit suicide and convince themselves it´s God calling them home. On a positive note Neptune in Scorpio can make a true and deeply committed effort towards what is right and evolve towards the Source.
At key points in time they can be exposed for their true motives and be disillusioned as a result when they realize they are in fact acting out of a deep sense of insecurity related to feeling totally powerless or due to past violations of trust, thus not being able to trust anyone or anything and living in a state of constant suspicion. By realizing these dynamics, they can desire to find new strength from within, thus minimizing external dependencies which will lead to more personal value, a sense of empowerment and, ultimately the security of moving in the direction of Source energy.
*Neptune in the 10th house may delude themselves that they are acting on behalf of God when they use God to justify their ways to achieve their ends or goals. They may delude themselves that they are acting on behalf of God or the good of all people, even those they are harming. They may impose rules on others, including their family members, while saying it is what God desires or what is right from the God´s point of view. They may decide they have a God given right to lead others and that they are the most efficient person for that role. Neptune in the 10th house may delude themselves that they and only they have the ability to take a responsible leadership role, therefore maintaining control over others at all costs. Neptune in the 10th house may delude themselves that they have the God given right to judge, convict and punish others, thus having the delusion that they have the God given authority over others. On a positive note Neptune in Capricorn/10th house can be very dedicated and steadfast, a good role model and a rock of support to those that need him or her.
At key points they can be stripped of their authority/status and be exposed for their desire to maintain control over everything possible in tyrannical ways. This can lead to a new sense of freedom to find constructive ways to build for themselves and others once they surrender to the experience and realign with truth.
*Neptune in the 12th house or Pisces can delude themselves into believing that God wants them to suffer as a form of healing themselves and others. That only by sacrificing their own needs and ego´s can they be saved or save others. They can fall under the delusion that God is directing them to do virtually anything that they feel inspired to do as they may have no sense of healthy boundaries, therefore not knowing who is who and what is what, even within themselves. They may use drugs, alcohol and other escapist tendencies as a way to feel close to God and convince themselves that it´s God´s will to use substances as a direct way of connecting with God. They may become addicted to the fleeting ecstacy that drugs make them feel as a substitute for the real ecstacy and wonder/revelation of experiencing Source energy directly. As a result they may become addicted to drugs and substance abuse. Neptune in the 12th house may also sacrifice themselves for the needy as a way to avoid their own lives and circumstances or suffering and, believe they are doing God´s work. They may totally neglect their needs or the needs of others and lack any form of discrimination as they can think that God will take care of everything in their lives, that personal action is not necessary and all is as it should be and, will be taken care of eventually. They may delude themselves that God wants them to suffer, specially in this day and age which has been so conditioned by religious teachings which, teach that people were born out of sin or that flesh and spirit are antagonistic or, any other distortion that has the effect of distorting what God is, what people are and, everything in between. This creates a subconscious sense of imperfection and impurity deep within the psyche that effects all of us in every moment of our lives.
This distorted dynamic operates and expresses itself thru all of the Astrological archetypes, specially Virgo and Pisces but, also all the others as, their expression is conditioned by the reality humans created and experience on Earth, because of such distortions. Another distortion mankind has created for itself is the distorted belief and way of life that Man is superior and separate from Nature itself. Could this reflect Man´s desire to maintain his separate-ness from God? Because of these distorted dynamics and way of life, we all have a deep inner sense of natural guilt and the desire to atone for it whether we are conscious of it or not and, this dynamic can create the delusion that God wants us to suffer for our sins, that God sees us as impure and unworthy of Source´s love and, ultimately the illusion that we are separate from the Source itself.
Active Member
Posts: 166
Re: Neptune Archetype
Reply #140 on:
Dec 23, 2013, 10:04 AM »
Dear Rad a& Group,
Here is my synopsis and some examples of delusions and being directed by God.
Thanks as always for your guidance Rad and to you all for your spirited contributions.
Neptune in the 7th in Aquarius
Neptune in the 7th house in Aquarius its most deluded sense would equal a Soul who is not seeing others clearly, projecting realities onto others that are not true or accurate. In some cases this would be projecting a purer expression onto someone that does not exist, seeing the good and the God in others or being swept away by the spirit of their potential. In other words, the rose colored glasses phenomena. Ultimately this could lead to being traumatized, Aquarius, when the reality of other's intentions were witnessed and realized. This could also equal someone who chose to join a group or be a part of a clique who shared certain beliefs that were not true about others. A Soul could project all kinds of conclusions or judgments upon another(s), very critical one's included, where there is no actual basis or reality for such conclusions or projections. This thereby causing trauma for others. This Neptune placement would also include someone who felt they were called to 'save' others, that they were called by God to be a savior for others.
In the most traditional sense as in the consensus state, this Neptune placement reminds me of the wedding vows spoken rooted in man made religions. This could also equal anyone marrying another because of feeling that God, Neptune, wanted them to marry them, perhaps due to having similar religious imprints. The other belief surrounding staying married, divorce not being an option, as that is what God would want. There are countless loveless unions where Souls stay in the marriage because of a vow they have made or out of obligation or guilt, feeling if they left the marriage that a judging God, the man on the throne would cast them out. As a result they are permanently suspended within the relationship, removed and detached. And this is what God would want? Really?
Couples wedding in the Roman Catholic Church essentially make the same pledge to one another. According to the Rite of Marriage the customary text is:
I, ____, take you, ____, to be my (husband/wife). I promise to be true to you in good times and in bad, in sickness and in health. I will love you and honor you all the days of my life.
In the United States, Catholic wedding vows may also take the following form:
I, ____, take you, ____, to be my lawfully wedded(husband/wife), to have and to hold, from this day forward, for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, until death do us part.
The priest will then say aloud "You have declared your consent before the Church. May the Lord in his goodness strengthen your consent and fill you both with his blessings. What God has joined, men must not divide. Amen
Or else?
In the consensus state a Soul with Neptune in Capricorn in the 7th might believe that God has chosen a certain partner for them. This could include arranged marriages in cultures that are driven and motivated by strict religious rules and keeping the same faith in the same house and keeping the religious bloodlines strong. There are some faiths that believe if you do not follow their way, then you do not go to 'heaven'. The delusion here is that one must marry or partner within the same religion. There are still many cultures in the east where women are totally subservient to the man and in essence a prop, or a slave or an object, a true victim in the partnership. Also in some cultures, even if a woman is raped she is sent to exile or locked up or even killed. All in the name of God.
With respect to Soul's casting judgements upon others in the name of God, in a recent news story right wing 'Bible Thumper' Phil Robertson, one of the leads in the popular consensus show TV show Duck Dynasty (with 10 million followers in the US) voiced anti gay commentary and religious beliefs about marriage. Robertson discusses in his GQ interview his religious beliefs and about sin, saying, "start with homosexual behavior and just morph out from there. Bestiality, sleeping around with this woman and that woman and that woman and those men." Then, the GQ writer paraphrases Corinthians saying, "don't be deceived. Neither the adulterers, the idolaters, the male prostitutes, the homosexual offenders, the greedy, the drunkards, the slanderers, the swindlers — they won't inherit the kingdom of God. Don't deceive yourself. It's not right." For taking these delusions to an extreme, his harsh remarks blasting gays landed him an indefinite suspension from the television series. His wake-up call.
One of my favorite passages in a book on the reincarnation of Ann Boelyn called Threads by Nell Gavin is a scene where she has just left her body after being sent to the guillotine by her husband, King Henry. She dies and the story begins, as her Soul slips into the astral plane and she is greeted by a voice. She learns here that her conditioned 'expectations' and beliefs with respect to what is right and wrong were way off due to what society and her own conditioning, leading to choice making created. Her understanding about giving and her role in relationships were way off the mark. "I will be harshly accountable for seemingly minor things, forgiven for things I have thought unforgivable, rewarded for small thoughtless, seemingly unimportant acts of kindness and love, and I see there had been many. Each moment will count in the final tally, which will shape my future as it did my past." She did have a Pisces Moon in the 7th, Neptune in Aquarius in the 6th. What she learned at this state was that she had not seen people clearly. She learns here too that evolutionarily speaking, that their beloved servant Rose with crippled hands was far further along in her evolution. Because of her her royal rank she made herself more important than others. This caused trauma for other Souls and she herself was traumatized and ultimately sent to her death by her own husband.
Neptune in Aquarius in the 7th in the individuated state the Soul progressively realizes or experiences the truth that God as was conjured up in a more consensus reality is not at all true. Where is God when tragedy strikes? So a progressive rebellion against these old beliefs would occur. Soul in these stages, in particular the 2nd stage, would experience a complete severing and separation from God. This might be Soul that call themselves atheist or agnostic which is where this disillusionment would lead.
Neptune in the 7th in Aquarius reminds me of the movie "Water". The film is set in the year 1938, when India was still under British rule. Child marriage was common practice back then. Widows had a diminished position in society, and were expected to spend their lives in poverty and worship God. Widow re-marriages were legalized by the colonial laws, but in practice, they were largely considered taboo. This story was about a 7 year old girl who was forced from her family to marry. Shortly following, she loses her husband. In keeping with traditions of widowhood, this now 8 year old is dressed in a coarse white sari, her head is shaven and she is deposited in an ashram for Hindu widows to spend the rest of her life in renunciation, in poverty and to worship God. In the movie 14 widows lived in a small, dilapidated two-story house, sent there to expiate bad karma, as well as to relieve their families of financial and emotional burdens. One of the side businesses where the girls were forced into prostitution as a child to support the ashram. All in the name of God.
It focuses on a relationship between one of the widows, who wants to escape the social restrictions imposed on widows, and a man who is from the highest caste and a follower of Mahatma Gandhi. This movie is a true heart crusher and reflects this disillusionment at its height. For all who hope to fall in love and live the Neptune dream prepare to be shocked into reality, painfully so. This main character, rebellious at her core, reflects either a later 1st stage individuated moving into the 2nd or 3rd stage individuated.
A first stage Spiritual state example would be Mother Theresa whose chart reflects the role of Mother Superior in another life. She has Neptune in the 7th in Cancer trine a South Node in Scorpio in the 11th, ruler Pluto in Gemini in the 7th square Mercury in Virgo in the 9th. She had the answers and power over every one ..God told her so and in a prior life she was beyond strict with her role, rationalizing her actions, in the name of God. In her most recent life, she was the consummate giver, dedicating her life to tending to the sick and the poor. It has been documented that early on in her life while traveling back to the convent by train from a retreat that Jesus' astral form materialized in the seat beside her, Neptune in the 7th trining her South Node in Scorpio in the 11th and told her her destiny was to leave the convent and dedicate her life to caring for the sick and the poor. After this visit, she never again had a direct experience from God. She writes,"
"There is so much contradiction in my soul.--Such deep longing for God--so deep it is painful--a suffering continual--and yet not wanted by God--repulsed--empty--no faith--no love--no zeal.--Souls hold no attraction--Heaven means nothing--to me it looks like an empty place--the thought of it means nothing to me and yet this torturing longing for God--Pray for me please that I keep smiling at Him in spite of everything. For I am only His--so He has every right over me. I am perfectly happy to be nobody even to God".
The inner doubt is VERY characteristic of the 1st Stage spiritual from the beginning. It can be cyclically occurring from then until around 3/4 of the way through this 1st Stage. Perseverance is a function of desire that can of course manifest in any stage of evolutionary development. And yet there was that inner tension but, because of it, it made her more determined to stay with the Church doctrine anyway. This was because she inwardly felt herself to be a fraud in some ways because of the utter inner darkness that plagued most of her life. And there was a karmic reason for that.
As Neptune evolves through the Spiritual State, in the 2nd stage a Soul with Neptune in Aquarius in the 7th in Aquarius may feel from egocentric place that they are 'holier than thou' and have a special destiny of a Uranian kind, to wake people up and in some cases this can occur with extremity and cause a collective community trauma as in the people that followed Souls like the Rajneesh's of the world. Someone with Neptune in the 7th in Aquarius in this case would have become totally shocked and shaken by his reality once his actual motivations were exposed although there were many and still are many that defend him til the end, that still need to maintain their delusion about him or else their entire belief structure and sense of whatever they have built their life around will fall apart.
Neptune in the 7th in Aquarius in the most enlightened sense as in a 3rd stage spiritual would not be free of disillusionment. They may see others as embodying a like mindedness, others that are in it for the same reasons and a part of their mission or tribe and then once the Souls following them get what they want from them, and perhaps are even healed by them, they jettison the scene. It may also play out that others with similar 'apparent' intentions, have 'actual' other motivations and delusions that are driving them.
Disillusionment can happen at any stage for any Soul. I remember JWG sharing a story about his pure intention to start a community as a result of the encouragement of others to teach yoga and meditation. He had started by teaching yoga in a formal class and as it turned out all of the students were committed to Yogananda, so this led to continuing to teach yoga as well as meditation on a weekly basis. This progressively grew in numbers as people learned of the class. This group requested that he start an actual Yogananda center because the one already in that town was too formal and filled with old people. JWG was in his 30's and many of the students were this same age or younger with a vibrant vision to set up a spiritual community. One of the students inherited a small sum of money and wanted to dedicate these funds to starting a Yogananda center. JWG wrote to SRF formally requesting that they send up one of their ministers to help them because no one there was trying to play guru, just simple folks needing their help to set up this spiritual center, Neptune in Aquarius in the 7th, and wanting to know the right way to proceed. SRF's response was to excommunicate JWG and send his membership money back. Imagine his disillusionment. (I realize he has Neptune in Libra in the 11th - a reverse signature but a similar energy). This then led him to write to Kriyananda, one of Yogananda's well known disciples asking for his help which he was more than happy to offer. They ultimately became friends and in the end a center was started which was called Ananda Seattle and became a formal Ananda center that is still there to this day.
The organization of SRF had become corrupted long before, as power does tend to corrupt. Kriyananda was SRF's VP in the mid 60's and through Yogananda's empowerment he wanted to act upon one of Yogananda's stated reasons for incarnating: to start 'communities of plain living and high thinking' which just didn't work out in his life so as VP Kriyananda bought up some land in India to do just that, this became the cause of the projections upon him by 'Daya Mata' who was the head of SRF by that time. They ended up removing Kriyananda from SRF as well, always under the justification of 'God' of course pretending that 'Yogananda' was giving them these instructions. These projections and his dismissal being cause for great disillusionment for Kriyananda. He has Venus in Aries in the 11th squaring his own nodes, s.node in 7th in Cap, n. node in 1st in Cancer. This became JWG's own experience with his Neptune in the 11th ruled by his Venus is Scorpio which was conjunct Kriyanandas Saturn in Scorpio, the ruler of his s.node which, again, squares that Venus. Kriyananda had a Neptune Moon conjunction and JWG a Pisces Moon. You can see the incredible synastry of all this. Yogananda's South Node is in Scorpio in the 3rd conjunct Uranus, these symbols form an inconjunct to the ruler Pluto and Neptune in Gemini in the 10th which are conjunct JWG's North Node, the experience of delusions within communities and organizations, people with power rationalizing their delusional behavior. The result equaling: innocent Souls with pure intentions suffer. In his own words, Yogananda 'hated' organizations of any kind for this very reason but this is exactly what God had him do in setting up SRF, the main objective within it was to unite the Spiritual teachings of the east/ west.
Last Edit: Dec 26, 2013, 11:51 AM by Kristin
ari moshe
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Re: Neptune Archetype
Reply #141 on:
Dec 23, 2013, 12:07 PM »
Hi Rad - thank you for this opportunity,
God bless
Ari Moshe
To summarize what Rad wrote:
1. All souls can delude themselves by using some sort or rational to use God as the reason for them to pursue the desires they are wanting to pursue.
2. When disillusionment does occur it can lead to an inner state of meaninglessness and loss of faith. In extreme cases it can lead to hysteria if the nature of the projections were a very extreme diversion from actual reality.
3. Relative to an extreme state of insecurity, when meaning is lost, the soul will often need to find some construct of reality to hold onto so as to feel secure. This can either be the same exact construct that they were believing in - which means they will further their resistance to surrendering to actual reality and become even more extreme or fanatical about their delusion. In such a case, the soul may develop a strong mechanism of ignoring any evidence that contradicts their construct of reality. Or, the soul will find some sort of new meaning to replace the old one that doesn't work any longer. In both instances, the actual allowing, inviting of God to reveal the truth is resisted so that the soul can continue to deflect responsibility for pursuing its own desires from their own selves and onto God.
One thing to clarify, when I speak of "God" in this context – this is to imply broadly any conception of reality that points to a higher, ultimate meaning. The specific notion of God is of course not necessary in order for this delusion to occur.
Becoming re-oriented to actual reality is a function of choice. It starts with the willingness to surrender to God – to that which is greater than one already understands and can control through their own version of reality. It is sometimes not possible to even acknowledge that one has the capacity to choose Truth or not when the version of reality a soul has created is so strong that the soul truly believes that they are already choosing God. To me what is profoundly beautiful about this is that God itself is still there, 100% available to the soul. Our delusions cannot touch or affect the only thing that is real.
I'm placing Neptune in 7th house. The 7th house correlates to the entire realm of relationship: how we meet one another's needs, our expectations and needs that are placed upon others, be it realistic or not. How we learn to get our needs met through relationships, how we learn about our own self and our needs through the experience of contrast, the needs we project upon and fulfill for other people – be it realistic, healthy or not.
The basic confusion with Neptune in the 7th house is assuming a role that one is being divinely directed to play on behalf of someone else. This can manifest in several ways:
1. Within an existing relationship the soul picture itself as being in relationship with that person to help the other person in some way. There is an inherent inequality here: the soul is in the role of playing God for the other person and this person is dependent upon the soul in some way. This soul will hear the other person's reality, what they are needing and will elect themselves as the one to give it to them. They will think that they were divinely inspired and directed to do this.
2. Non specific to any particular relationship, the soul may picture itself as a universal lover to all kinds of people: available to meet anyone's needs. What happens here is the soul is projecting a God like persona that essentially keeps real intimacy and closeness with people at a distance. The soul will relate to other people's suffering and needs by interjecting onto these people what they think these other people are needing. The soul may believe it has a divine purpose or role to play.
3. That they are meant to surrender completely to the reality of the other person. To become a complete vicarious reflection of the reality of the other. This will be based on the belief that they are divinely called to do so: that they are supposed to support this partner, or that the partner is a savior to them and they are meant to trust them completely.
There may be a total lack of awareness of what is actually helpful or not – to one's self or to others. Placing one's self in the position where they are the ultimate provider for others or making others the ultimate provider for oneself and linking that to a divine purpose protects the soul from taking any responsibility for their own desires.
Take Neptune in Sag in the 7th with Pluto in Libra in the 5th. 2nd stage spiritual, female. The nature of the relationships this soul will create can be based upon the soul's capacity to know what others want to hear in order to make them feel heard and appreciated, which then makes the soul feel wanted and appreciated in turn. The soul may take on the role of counselor/healer for others and through doing so will be satisfying their own desires for being important to others. If we place Jupiter, the ruler of Sag, in sag in the 8th house squaring Pluto in the 5th – this soul may form relationships with other men who contain some sort of higher wisdom or spiritual power that this soul desires to extract and drawn into their own selves by playing the role of the enlightened and empowered partner. In turn, these partners will become dependent on this soul in some way in order further their own egocentric desires.
The people that this person forms relationship with may also have all kinds of exaggerated delusions of self importance and all knowingness - Neptune in Sag. The soul will validate and further feed these delusions.
When apartner no longer need this soul, when this soul is no longer getting the feedback/love/adoration/respect that they were getting in exchange to giving all of their power away then the soul is faced with being honest with their own selves.
At this point when the actual reality of the partner becomes revealed, if the soul is not yet willing to surrender, then they will have to find some sort of justification to stay in that relationship and reconcile for the apparent incompatability. The soul may convince themselves that they are divinely ordained to be in relationship with this person – and to give to them, support them, love them, cater to their needs NO MATTER WHAT. In this case, the soul can simply draw upon any kind of spiritual knowledge about unconditional love, patience etc – all of which is of course a misapplication of these principles. Any form of spiritual side stepping. And while the following may not be totally true in the case of a 2nd stage spiritual, in other evolutionary stages the idea of "God is testing me" can be applied here as a way to stay in the relationship.
If it is the case where the partner leaves and the soul is left devastated – the soul may create a reality that essentially alleviates them away from their devastation. This reality would be "I have played my role. Our contract together is complete. Now it is time for both of us to move on to the next stage of our lives." Or something else like "My partner has swayed from his divine purpose and is no longer willing to accept my support for his own creative actualization in this life. That's a shame on his path." Both rationalizations deflect self responsibility from the individual and perpetuate the delusion that the soul has always been and still is in alignment with "God's will".
The disillusionment of reality that occurs here is basically this: if I was supposed to be here, if God directed me to be in this relationship, how do I reconcile for the truth that is revealing itself? [This is a common Neptune delusion. The eternal perfection of each moment, the principle that God is here now, that we are always in the right place – is often misapplied to justify why not to make the choices that will align the soul with their own evolutionary needs.]
To recap in a general way, here are 3 possible responses that a soul with Neptune in the 7th may have to a disillusioning experience in their relationship relative to their delusion of being in alignment with some sort of higher divine purpose.
1. Some sort of justification that amends the original belief, but allows the soul to stay convinced that they are in fact following a higher divine plan. The justification will essentially allow the soul to adopt to the new truth that has revealed itself without taking any responsibility for oneself, and thus without actually changing any core behaviors. The same relationship may continue with these new justifications in tact.
2. Overwhelmed with the actual reality, the soul may simply dismiss everything and choose the thoughts "this doesn't't matter to me." Or "you don't understand." In extreme cases of denial the soul will completely use any excuse to point to God as the source of their own choice making.
3. The soul will gradually come to realize that they do not know the other person. It would be healthy if there were various emotions at this point: anger, confusion, uncertainty, reluctance. That is healthy because it implies that the soul is beginning to process something that has been so utterly denied. It's necessary to not try to rush this process and replace the lost meaning with something else that can make the soul feel safe. So often with this signature souls are disillusioned in a particular relationship and then at a certain point they either "get back together" with the person they were with, or they just find someone else with whom they can play out the same delusion. What can happen here, if this process is active, is at some point the soul reaches an emotional empty point wherein the soul in a moment remembers that there is more they do not understand and that they don't have all the answers. In this moment, the soul surrenders to God – they let go in some way. At this point grace can come in and new revelations, new ideas, new insights are possible.
Other expressions of 7th house Neptune, if we link it with Jupiter, or Sag would be the believe that one is supposed to speak the truth to someone else on behalf of that someone else. That my purpose is to do so. If we place Capricorn there, to contrast this, the belief that one is meant to go out of their way and "do the right thing" for other people - to play a role in relationship that allows the individual to take some sort of responsibility for others. There may be a total lack of boundaries and capacity to know what "God" wants me to do versus what I am deluding myself into thinking God wants me to do.
In more subtle ways I can identify this pattern of linking choices with God when it in fact is coming from within my own self relative to my own inner soul dynamics. I have a Pisces DC squaring the nodes. I have often found myself in various relationship dynamics where I have gotten completely lost in the other person's own natural human experience (fears, projections, worries, anxieties etc) - without knowing it I have held the belief that I was supposed to be available for these souls: to offer counsel, to hold space, to give of myself in some way. I never thought of it as "God wants me to do this", however I have projected that these instances were as sort of spiritual purification for me – that my own inner work in those moments was to be available and present for these souls – and that there was a reason for why these people were showing up in my life at that moment. Thus there has been the delusion that there is a higher purpose for me to fulfill within these relationships.
With Neptune ruling my DC in the 4th conjunct the Mercury and Jupiter balsamic - all relative to a balsamic Venus Pluto in the 2nd, I would engage dialog and essentially invite these people into my inner space - often literally to my own home - to the total negation of my own needs. This would be completely exhausting and lead to great loneliness and depelte my own capacity to focus on the actual service work that wishes to happen here. This has happened in all kinds of relationships – casual as well as more long term partnership. Guilt about people's suffering if I am not going to offer myself to them.
What I am learning is to love them, and to take care of myself however I need to; to be fully nourished and supported in all the ways Source wishes to nurture me (4th house). In so doing, I give myself the healing and nourishment to fully focus on my service in the world in the way that is in alignment with my soul's own evolutionary needs.
Last Edit: Dec 23, 2013, 05:58 PM by ari moshe
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Re: Neptune Archetype
Reply #142 on:
Dec 24, 2013, 12:33 AM »
Hello Rad and Everyone,
I wrote and re-wrote several versions of this assignment. It seemed that no matter what I wrote, I was never satisfied with it. I started with Neptune in Scorpio in the 12th House, coming up with ideas like people having dreams, visions and drug or alcohol induced hallucinations causing them to believe that God told them to do such things as become a nun, a priest or a monk, or commit murder, rape someone, cheat on their taxes, manipulate other people, and other Scorpio and/or Pisces type activities. It made for quite a long list. Something was missing however, then God spoke to me and told me how he wanted me to do this assignment. :-)
I decided to write about a third stage consensus soul who has Neptune Rx in the 6th House in Leo. The Sun is in Aries in the 1st House. Jupiter is conjunct the Ascendant in Pisces. Neptune, The Sun and the MC (in Sagittarius) form a Grand Trine. Neptune is square Venus in Taurus in the 3rd House and sextile Mars in Gemini in the 4th House. It is also bi-quintile Uranus (the ruler of his 12th house cusp) in Aries in the 1st House. As we have learned, these are the main areas in which the soul can spiritualize his life or experience illusion, delusion and disillusionment. In addition, these are areas in which a soul can believe that God is telling him or her to do something which is really his or her own personal desire. In order to make things easy, I am going to refer to this soul as "Ben" rather than as "the soul" or "the individual."
Ben is a very religious man who was inspired by a transcendent impulse to serve others through his work in a very big way (Nep/Leo/6th). He wanted to do something very special that would bring attention and power his way in addition to helping others. He instinctually decided to pursue a career in with an institutional religious organization (Neptune/Sun/MC Grand Trine). In addition to his MC in Sagittarius, he also had Saturn in Sagittarius in the 9th House. Early in his career this placement influenced him to to study and then teach theology. If Ben ever thought that it was God's will that he pursue such a career, he was wrong, it was his own personal desire.
Ben entered the Catholic priesthood and became a highly regarded professor of theology. Being that he had Neptune in the 6th House, he was under the illusion that he was doing God's work and helping others understand God. As we know, it was his own personal desire that led him down this path.
Ben was very successful and soon promoted to Vice President of the University and later promoted to the rank of Archbishop. In his early years at the University he was regarded as a liberal theologian, but as time went on he adopted conservative views and advocated a return to fundamental Christian values. (Saturn in Sag in the 9th). It is possible that he believed that it was God's wish that all Catholics embrace these fundamental values, but it was really his own desire that people do so.
Ben devoted his life to the priesthood and the Catholic Church. With Jupiter, the ruler of his 12th House cusp, conjunct his Pisces Ascendant, he displayed a great deal of self-confidence and had the political skills necessary to succeed and advance to leadership roles in the church. He perceived himself as having the power to carry out "God's will." With his Sun in Aries in the 1st House trine his MC in Sagittarius and Neptune in Leo in the 6th House, this was his special creative purpose after all. At least he imagined it to be.
Although the Sagittarius placements in his chart inspired Ben to pursue a religious career focused on theology and Catholic dogma, there was another side of Ben symbolized by all of the Pisces archetypes in his chart. Ben once told an audience," We need to make time for silence in our lives if we are to pray and listen to God. Silence is the environment that best promotes recollection, listening to God, meditation." These are the words of someone in tune with the Pisces archetype as well as one who believes that God speaks directly to us.
The Catholic Church was rocked by sex scandal after sex scandal during Ben's tenure as a high ranking Catholic official. Ben was called upon to investigate these matters. He chose to keep his findings secret and not communicate them to the outside world. (Neptune square Venus in Taurus in the 3rd House).
Ben also has Mars in Gemini in the 4th House, Mercury conjunct Jupiter in Pisces along with
his 12th House Ruler, Uranus in Aries, in the 1st House. Ben felt empathy and compassion for both the victims and the perpetrators. The priests in question were, after all, a group of like-minded others in terms of belonging to the Catholic family of man. He fought to keep his investigation secret for their sake and could not find it within him to punish them. At the same time, he felt the grief, anguish, sorrow and suffering of the victims and their families. He apologized for the wrong doings of his fellow priests. The manner in which he handled the situation confused and confounded the public and he was criticized for not taking action.
At the high point of his career in the Church, transiting Pluto was conjunct Ben's MC and the transiting North Node conjunct his natal Sun. At this point he attained a position of power and glory in the Church. He became the powerful leader he was destined to be. The sexual scandals kept pouring in.
After a few short years, Ben may have become disillusioned by it all. It is said that "Although he identifies with the institution of the Church, he is also profoundly spiritual." Dealing with sex scandals probably didn't fit his vision of what God wanted him to be focused upon or his vision of spirituality.
Transiting Neptune entered into Ben's 12th House and Ben likely began to feel the transcendent impulse and God "whispering in his ear." Before very long, five transiting planets were sitting in, and activating, Ben's 12th house of dreams, fantasy, imagination, illusion, delusion and disillusionment. These five planets were The Sun (purpose), the Moon (ego), Venus (values and relationships with oneself and others), Mars (desires) and Neptune (the transcendent impulse and disillusionment). Is it possible that Ben was becoming disillusioned with it all?
It was not long before Ben made a decision that literally shocked the Catholic world. He decided to resign from his glorious and powerful position in the Church. When he made this decision he gave very practical and logical sounding reasons for doing so. Afterwards, it was reported that when asked about his motivation for making this particular decision, his answer began with the words, "God told me to…"
With five planets, including Neptune, transiting his 12th House, Ben had what he calls "a mystical experience" through which God inspired within him an "absolute desire" to retire and devote his life to prayer. Although Ben believes that this is God's will, it is actually his own personal desire.
Having both religious and spiritual archetypes prominent in his natal chart, Ben was likely confused about the difference between the two. With Neptune and Pisces archetypes aspecting each other, there were no boundaries separating the two and he was under the illusion that they are one and the same. In the end, the "Whisper of God" gently pushed him to towards focusing on the more mystical side of his nature after a lifetime of devotion to the religious and truth seeking side if his nature. This may have been a two-fold process in which he first became disillusioned with his role in the Church and then heard God tell him to resign, go into seclusion and spend the rest of his days in prayer. Only he knows for sure. In any case, this was his own desire.
Pope Benedict was the he first Pope to resign since Gregory XII in 1415, and the only Pope to have resigned without external pressure since Celestine in 1294.
"Benedict denied he had been visited by an apparition or had heard God's voice, but said he had undergone a "mystical experience" during which God had inspired in him an "absolute desire" to dedicate his life to prayer rather than push on as pope."
"Benedict said his mystical experience had lasted months, building his desire to create a direct and exclusive relationship with God. Now, after witnessing the "charisma" of his successor, Pope Francis, Benedict said he understood to a greater extent how his stepping aside was the "will of God".
Rad posted an article about this here:
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Re: Neptune Archetype
Reply #143 on:
Dec 24, 2013, 06:05 AM »
Hi All,
I found the following story coming out of America that is such perfect little illustration of the Neptune archetype as it relates to the desire to sustain illusions at all costs.
Keep the Saturn in Saturnalia
By Amanda Marcotte
Monday, December 23, 2013 10:23 EST
The "war on Christmas" once again proves to not exist, but continues to be an imaginary war being used to justify actual abuse of non-Christians and anyone who might believe that Christians should not be upheld as superior to everyone else. The latest example happened in South Jersey. Freedom From Religion decided to respond to a big banner that's flown over the street in Pitman, NJ every year that reads "Keep the Christ in Christmas" with a billboard on the highway that says "Keep the Saturn in Saturnalia". Local residents are not handling the cheeky reminder that the Winter Solstice was once a pagan holiday that Christians stole because they knew they could never stop people from celebrating it.
Several protesters descended on the billboard over the weekend. A man dressed in a full red Santa suit stood sentry in the cold for hours, holding a placard that referenced "Obamass." On Sunday, a family of four attempted to shroud the sign with picture of Jesus before they were shooed away by police.
Town officials followed the weekend protests on Facebook. But the attempt to burn down the sign ratcheted up their concerns….
An off-duty police officer witnessed the latest assault on the sign Tuesday about 11:45 p.m., said Chief Robert Zimmerman. Two white men pulled up in a silver and blue Ford 150 pickup truck with a ladder rack. They poured gas around the supports, set it ablaze and quickly fled.
"They were not successful," Zimmerman said. "The posts are steel and didn't ignite at all."
I would love to talk to the people who are trying to deface it by asking them what they are so afraid of. Are they afraid by mentioning the ancient god Saturn, they will invoke him and he will wreak havoc in revenge for being cast aside in favor of these shiny new gods like Jesus? Are they worried that the reminder that Christmas used to be Saturnalia means we have to stop celebrating Christmas because the pagans had it first? Or are they worried that the billboard will provoke a forbidden thought: If there were other gods that no one believes in anymore, could it be that your own god is just as much a myth? But since that thought is forbidden, even admitting you worry about thinking it is a form of thinking it, so I imagine they wouldn't admit that. So, I'm guessing the answers will be a bunch of incoherent rage that non-Christians aren't bowing and scraping before Christians.
But beyond that really is a fear that if non-Christians are allowed an equal space in society, then people, especially young people, might start to realize that you don't have to be a Christian. And, let's be blunt: A huge chunk of people, upon finding out they don't have to be Christians, are going to say, "Well fuck that then, I'm sleeping in on Sundays." That's a huge fear underlying this.
Of course, we all know what the true meaning of Christmas is: Trying to scratch out a little privacy for yourself in midst of all the overwhelming familial chaos.
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Re: Neptune Archetype
Reply #144 on:
Dec 24, 2013, 06:09 AM »
Hi Kristin, Ari, Linda, Cat, and Skywalker
Thanks for taking the time you have do do this segment of our Neptune thread ON TIME. I would like to know from those who said they intended to do this segment but have not if you plan on doing that. If not, please let me know.
Since tomorrow is a holiday, Christmas for many, I will wait until Thursday too read through and comment of the work you have all done.
God Bless, and happy holidays, Rad
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Re: Neptune Archetype
Reply #145 on:
Dec 26, 2013, 09:28 AM »
Hi Skywalker,
This is simply excellent EA work on the Neptune archetype. Your various examples of Neptune in the houses that you chose to illustrate are spot on: just exceptional EA work and reasoning. Your preamble of how the Neptune archetype manifests is just wonderful.
Just exceptional EA work Skywalker.
Bravo !!
God Bless, Rad
Last Edit: Dec 26, 2013, 09:46 AM by Rad
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Re: Neptune Archetype
Reply #146 on:
Dec 26, 2013, 09:44 AM »
Hi Kristin,
This is just exceptional EA work on the Neptune archetypes that we are studying. Your various examples of Neptune in the 7th through different the evolutionary states of development are spot on, and your cross references to planets in the 11th for example using the charts of JWG, Kyriananda, and Yoganada further examples of how the Neptune archetype manifests. Yogananda also had his Uranus in Scorpio conjunct his S.Node in the 3rd. This also the S.Node of Jesus who had his Neptune conjunct that S.Node in his 11th. Needless to say most of us are aware of the degree of 'projection' upon the Soul of Jesus by billions of human beings, all using the authority of Jesus as their own to justify their own egocentric agendas.
Exceptional EA work Kristin.
Bravo !!
God Bless, Rad
Most Active Member
Posts: 17075
Re: Neptune Archetype
Reply #147 on:
Dec 26, 2013, 09:59 AM »
Hi Ari,
Your very detailed way that Neptune in the 7th could manifest, as well as making it even more specific to connecting it to other planets and aspects, is simply exceptional EA work. The EA reasoning that you have employed is spot on. And then using yourself as an example of what you have written is just wonderful by way of illustrating exactly what you are saying about this archetype in the 7th.
Exceptional EA work Ari.
Bravo !!
God Bless, Rad
Most Active Member
Posts: 17075
Re: Neptune Archetype
Reply #148 on:
Dec 26, 2013, 10:10 AM »
Hi Cat,
First all those examples that you wanted to initially use to demonstrate Neptune in the 12th would have very, very accurate. Then shifting to the example you used, Ben, you perfectly illustrated through that person's actual life, exactly how the Neptune archetype manifested. This example is just perfect which then lead to the case of Pope Benedict itself. In using these real life examples those who are reading this thread will be helped in their own desire to understand exactly how Neptune can manifest.
Exceptional EA work Cat.
Bravo !!
God Bless, Rad
Most Active Member
Posts: 17075
Re: Neptune Archetype
Reply #149 on:
Dec 26, 2013, 10:18 AM »
Hi Cat, Kristin, Ari, Skywalker, and Linda and all others who either wish to join us or have stated their desire to do so,
First, I want to commend all of you who have been working on our Neptune archetypal discussion. The EA work that you have all done thus far is just tremendous work. I thank you all for taking the time from your lives to work on this, and the time taken to do this exceptional work speaks for itself. All of you are helping so many who have come to this thread to learn about Neptune, how it actually is. Your are all natural teachers of EA, true ambassadors for it's ongoing spread into the general astrological communities around the Earth.
We will begin again on Monday of next week. Until then I am posting a story from South Africa that so perfectly illustrates the Soul tragedy in 'believing', needing to believe, is something that is a total delusion/ illusion.
Until next week.
God Bless, Rad
South African right-wingers still harbor lurid fantasies of post-Mandela racial apocalypse
By Agence France-Presse
Thursday, December 26, 2013 7:17 EST
In South Africa, right-wing prophesies that Nelson Mandela's death will be followed by a racial apocalypse refuse to be quashed by events.
Ever since the mostly peaceful transition to majority rule in 1994, right-wing South Africans have claimed the moment would spell an end to reconciliation and unleash untold bloodshed.
So engrained was the idea of a "Night of the Long Knives" that it even seeped into mainstream thinking.
Some plotted elaborate evacuation plans, radio programs discussed whether it was remotely possible and one journalist even visited a town where whites would supposedly gather before fleeing, just in case anyone turned up.
When nothing happened after South Africa's first black president drew his last breath on December 5, or after his burial 10 days later, most were unsurprised, but for some it was nothing more than apocalypse deferred.
"They are definitely planning something. It won't happen over one night, but will be gradual," said Neil, 40, while on a recent visit to an Afrikaner memorial, the Voortrekker Monument in Pretoria.
The belief that one day whites would be slaughtered en masse is tenacious and can be traced back to the earliest white settlers on the tip of Africa.
Later, in the early 1900s, in the wake of the second Anglo-Boer War, the idea was propagated by soothsayer Nicolaas van Rensburg, who has obtained cult status among radical Afrikaner groups.
Van Rensburg was a farmer who only read the Bible and was unable to write anything besides his own name.
Among believers he is credited with predicting World War II and the rise of a black leader who some believe to be Mandela.
The "siener", or "seer" in the Afrikaans language, had a number of visions that his daughter and friends wrote up in notebooks which today lie in a cultural history museum in the northwestern town of Lichtenburg.
In 1915, Van Rensburg had a vision of "a coffin lowered into a grave, multiple fires coming out, led by one big blaze."
"Someone important is buried, and then a revolution breaks out," explained Tollie Vreugdenburg, a police investigator who has worked on cases involving the far right.
Van Rensburg's prophesies were among those adopted by white terrorist group the Boeremag, who plotted to kill Mandela and overthrow the government in the late 1990s and early 2000s.
One member of the group who turned state witness against his 20 co-accused revealed how they used the prophesies to plan and recruit new members.
"They relied heavily on the Seer's visions," Vreugdenburg said. "The Night of the Long Knives, Mandela's death, was the main reason."
After killing Mandela, the Boeremag would use the black uprising as a pretext for retaliatory attacks.
"They would then be the saviors acting to save whites," Vreugdenburg said.
This month two more right-wingers were on trial accused of plotting to bomb government leaders, also inspired by Van Rensburg's prophecies, according to Vreugdenburg, who investigated that case as well.
It was among such groups that rumors of a black uprising at the end of white-minority rule festered.
When it did not occur, prophesies shifted to Mandela's death, and now beyond.
On his death, the radical organization the Suidlanders (Southlanders) suggested that members go "on holiday" to safe havens, but stopped short of calling for an evacuation.
On its website it lists essential goods to take on an emergency evacuation, which include canned food, a Bible, a rucksack and tampons "to stem bleeding wounds".
A chain text message the day after Mandela's death warned of the final onslaught on December 16, when Afrikaners would be "relaxed and on holiday".
Originally a celebration of the Afrikaner ancestors' victory over Zulus in the Battle of Blood River in 1838, the December 16 festival was renamed Reconciliation Day after the end of white rule in 1994.
"The loss of power in 1994 was difficult for these people," said Fransjohan Pretorius, history professor at the University of Pretoria.
"They lived in a dream world then, and they prefer to continue living in that dream world."
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Spurs coach Gregg Popovich had a simple message for his players after they steamrolled the Utah Jazz 114-83 on Wednesday night to take a 2-0 lead in their first-round playoff series.
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Game 1: Spurs 106, Jazz 91
Game 2: Spurs 114, Jazz 83
Game 3: At Salt Lake City, Utah, Saturday, 9 p.m.
Game 4: At Salt Lake City, Utah, Monday, May 7, time TBA
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Bush Administration Twists Facts to Trick States into Accepting Funds for Ineffective Abstinence-Only Programs
Title V Grant Extension Is a Gimmick
Washington, DC Planned Parenthood Federation of America (PPFA) today criticized the Bush administration for misleading states about the certainty of Title V abstinence-only program funding in a new grant extension announced last week. The move is a gimmick aimed directly at countering states rejection of failed abstinence-only programs.
"On the way out the door, the Bush administration is once again caught misrepresenting the facts to push its own agenda," said PPFA President Cecile Richards. "This latest announcement is nothing more than a gimmick and offers nothing new or different for states that want to provide effective programs to protect teens health and safety.
Last week, the Administration for Children and Families (ACF) sent an e-mail to states touting the extension of the Title V, Section 510 State Abstinence Education Grant Program, and informing them that they may now submit one application for funding for five years, from fiscal year (FY) 2009 through FY2013. Previously, states were required to submit a new Title V grant application each year.
The grant extension distorts the facts around funding availability for Title V. In fact, Congress must still determine whether to grant an extension of the program past June 2009, meaning funding uncertainty still exists for state programs.
The facts are clear: abstinence only programs do not work, Richards said. The governments own evaluation of Title V found that these programs did nothing to increase abstinence or delay sexual initiation among participating youth.
To date, 25 states have declined federal abstinence-only dollars. Officials in many of those states have expressed clear and unequivocal support for real solutions that give teens the information they need to be healthy and safe.
In the last decade, more than $1.5 billion in federal and state funding has been wasted on dangerous abstinence-only programs that deny teenagers lifesaving information. Its time to put that money toward real solutions that will help prevent unintended pregnancy and sexually transmitted infections among teenagers.


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1462cc, 67bhp, 110mph, Insurance group 12
Although the Suzuki VL1500 Intruder shares a basic engine design with the Suzuki VL1400 Intruder, the two bikes have very different chassis. The Suzuki VL1500 Intruder is long, low and wide, very similar to Kawasaki's Vulcan 1500 in terms of power, overall feel and ride quality. The bottom line is this however; can you ride a bike with `Intruder' written ...
998cc, 124bhp, 165mph, Insurance group 17
Although arguably a better bike, the Ducati 999 has never really stepped out of the shadows of the preceding, iconic Ducati 916 series of motorcycles. It lacks the grunty, fluid finesse of its V-twin rival motorcycles, the comfort of Japanese superbikes and has typical Ducati failings; of poor riding position, useless mirrors and quirky electrics. On the right racetrack, the Ducati 999 ...
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