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Costly Repairs after 1.9 years of service
Posted by Thezoo on 03/07/2004
Dear Sir or Madam,
On June 15th, 2002, I purchased your Whirlpool Gas Water Heater with Flame Lock Safety System (model number FG1H4040T, product number 0730138, serial number 0215119499) at Lowe's. The exact store location is 5125 West Main Street, Kalamazoo, Michigan, 49002. Their phone number is (269)345-2110. Cost of the unit was $268.00, and there was a rebate at that time, although I do not recall the exact amount of the rebate. I installed the water heater per instruction and it has worked perfectly until last Thursday, March 4th, 2003. My wife noticed during that day that the hot water coming out of the faucets was luke warm. I checked the water heater and found that the pilot light was out and the burner was not operating. I attempted to reset the pilot and restart the water heater. I followed the instruction per the operation manual for re-lighting the water heater. I held the reset button down and depressed the igniter button until the pilot relit. After holding the reset button down for 1 minute, I released the button, which caused the pilot to go out. I attempted this several times.
After several unsuccessful attempts to restart the water heater, I contacted the gas company to check the lines. They did, and everything was in working order. I then called a local heating and cooling company to come out and service the unit. The company was not an authorized Whirlpool repair facility, but because they were local and might be able to locate the problem easily in addition to not knowing it needed parts for the repair, we requested that they take a look. After they inspected the gas lines and found one small leak in a shutoff valve (Which they replaced), they were also unsuccessful in being able to relight the water heater. They believed that the Flame lock Thermocouple was bad and suggested that it be replaced. Since Whirlpool uses reversed thread thermocouples, they did not have a suitable replacement part. My wife contacted your customer service department and they provided her with an authorization number (1575765) for a replacement thermocouple at no charge to us. I was able to pick one up at Lowe's. The thermocouple was replaced, but the pilot light would continue to go out when the reset button was released after being relit. This repair occurred Friday evening.
On Saturday, March 6th, we made several calls to Lowe's and your customer service department in an attempt to locate a Whirlpool authorized service provider. Because of the weekend, it was difficult to find a service company open; however we were able to locate Northside Heating and Cooling in Muskegon, Michigan. They were an hour and a half away. Knowing that the service call would be more expensive for that reason, as well as being a weekend, we still were happy to have them come repair the unit. Ryan Cosens from Northside came out to repair the water heater. Per his description of the work, the water heater was not sensing flame. He replaced the gas valve and installed a second thermocouple. He checked the gas lines, draft, plus the unit and found them to be good working order. He was able to restart the water heater. Although the parts were covered under warranty, labor for the repair was $393.75. I find that amount outrageous and far more than what I paid for the water heater itself. To add insult to injury, 30 minutes after he left, the unit failed again, and I could not get it relit. With the same symptoms as before, I contacted Ryan again, and was told that he did everything he could do to repair the unit. He suggested I contact Whirlpool. I did, and I spoke to a customer service rep that stated to me that he obviously did not fix the unit and to have him come back and do so. When I mentioned that this unit had a 9 year warranty, I was told that the warranty covered the tank only. Obviously, the tank is not the issue. I contacted Ryan again, and after some trepidation on his part, he agreed to come back Monday to look at the unit again. This means that either my wife or I will miss a second day of work waiting to have the water heater repaired..hopefully repaired.
We also contacted the Lowe's store where we purchased the water heater to inquire what recourse we have with this faulty unit. They took our information, and were going to inquire to Whirlpool for resolution.
So here's where I'm at. I will wait until Monday and see if Northside can get the water heater functioning again. If they can not, then I am forced to replace this unit. After 4 days of cold water, and a water heater that is only 1.9 years old, I am extremely displeased with the level of reliability and service I have received from Whirlpool. I appreciate not having to pay for parts, but the lack of assistance and outright poor attitude from Whirlpool has given me a bad taste. If I have to replace the water heater, I promise you it won't be a Whirlpool. The name Whirlpool will never again grace this household. In addition, I will find every internet based consumer advocacy group I can find and post this letter. I would not wish this level of frustration upon my worst enemy. I hope no one has to go through such a finger pointing exercise. I do not expect much of a response from Whirlpool, if their customer service is a reflection of the company's attitude. But I'm writing this letter in as much for the therapeutic effect as for any kind of resolution it might bring.
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Posted by wallyhammer on 2004-08-26:
Whirlpool water heaters are really NOT made by whirpool, it is SUBBED OUT ---they are made by a nearly bankrupt company called AMERICAN WATER HEATERS. They have been teetering on the brink of bankruptsy for quite a while and I believe the company has just been bought out by someone looking for a bargain..I think out of Canada.
but anyway, this "whirlpool brand" water heater is really just a generic junk heater with the label "whirlpool" stamped on it and boxed in a factory assembly line to fool people .. you can see the exact same model in numerous discount hardware stores with other names on them.
what tricks people is thinking they are getting a 12 year warranty (pro rated) water heater from a reputiable name like WHIRLPOOL...
they aint.
Actually they should not have charged him anything for service unless he had only a 1 year labor warranty..
Dont that make you feel good???
if you could do it all over again, I will bet you would have gotten a local plumber to install a better brand.
Actually , if you want to raise a little cain,
LOWES will actually take back your water heater and give you at least a in store credit. I have had customers take back those whirlpool units to Lowes before, and they did get their money back.
I left the DOG sitting outside their homes for them to take back, and installed them a Rheem gas hot water heater cause they could not get service on that Whirlpool DOG in a timely manner and even though I am a plumber , I cant get parts quickly either!!
THEY WILL GIVE YOU BACK THE MONEY--Trust me on that.
Then you can go find a reputible plumber to get a REAL Name Brand water heater like RHEEM or
BRADFORD WHITE to repalce that off brand dog.
Believe me,
It aint over yet, you still got 10 years of possible trouble ahead of you, take it back while its still early in the game.
Get your money back on the service
call too, report that guy to the BBB, or raise so much cain at the Lowes store that they give you some sort of inn store credit for some or all of that outlandish service call that you got stuck with.
they will do it just to get you out of their hair
and they dont want you to call the BBB either.
you aint got nothing to lose for trying
good luck
Posted by wallyhammer on 2004-08-27:
anoter note, The manager at Lowes does not want trouble from you, the store manager has his own agenda and his own goals in "going up the corporate ladder dream"
(he hasnt figured out yet he aint going no-where)
So to keep you quiet and make himself look good, he will literally "throw money at you" to get you to simply shut up and "go Away"
before your complaint makes a smudge on his "perfect record"
that is the way things work with these guys.
it dont hurt them, and you get happy.
Posted by EthanPreston on 2006-06-05:
I am a class action attorney looking for witnesses who have personal experience with Whirlpool's Flame Lock-brand water heater.
This may be an advertisement in your jurisdiction. http://eplaw.us/terms.html
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Whirlpool Water Heater Terrible Support and Customer Service
Posted by Plumberman on 01/10/2008
CINCINNATI, OHIO -- As a plumber, I have purchased and installed several of the Whirlpool Energy Smart Water Heaters. I can tell you for certain that I have purchase my last one! After having a Whirpool Energy Smart water heater installed for two weeks, one of my customer's electric bill went from $65 to $183. I went back to the house expecting to find a bad element. The element checked out. The water heater was also drawing the proper amount of current. I called customer service and they walked me through everything that I had already checked again. They assured me then that the problem was not the water heater. Wanting to make absolutely sure and having background in electric work, I stuck around to figure out exactly what the problem was. After awhile, we could hear the water heater clicking off and on every minute or so.
I called Whirlpool back to inform them that apparently the electronic "Energy Smart" control box was bad (funny they didn't have me check that to begin with, as I later found that they have had other problems with the electronics). They acknowledged from what I told them that the control box was bad. I asked who in the greater Cincinnati area would stock one and was told "no one, it will have to be shipped from the factory". Being a holiday weekend I could not believe what I was hearing. I asked, "You mean that I have to leave my customer without hot water for three days?" She (Michelle, a customer service SUPERVISOR) rudely repeated what she said without even the slightest sign of sympathy for the elderly couple who would be without hot water for three days. When I asked what the procedure was to make a formal complaint about this was, she snapped back, "Have the homeowner call me" and abruptly hung up the phone! Is that anyway to treat someone who has purchases approximately 25 of your water heaters per year?
I had to go buy another complete water heater just to get the part until the new one arrived. I have just submitted a claim to get paid the $80 that Whirpool pays for their service work (no wonder no one is willing to do it). Considering the way they do business, I will be amazed if I ever get paid. Lowes is just as much to blame, I mean what would it take for at least one store in the greater Cinci area (or every major city) to stock a full selection of parts for such an important appliance as a water heater THAT THEY SELL.
Another example of the absence of customer service in the plight of huge corporations to get a few cents richer. I would not buy another Whirlpool appliance if they were half the price of any other brand!! That is the honest truth!
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Posted by Anonymous on 2008-01-10:
Great post and info Plumberman. We seldom get first hand info like this around here it seems the person that bought the water heater has to post the complaint. I have a Whirlpool Water Heater that had a thermocoupler recall problem. Bought it at Lowes, they were of zero help, had to call ten different numbers to get the problem fixed. (VH)
Posted by Anonymous on 2008-01-11:
I probably don't understand.
Why would you have had to leave the customer without hot water for three days? If the energy saver control unit was bad and turning on and off (using a greater amount of electricity) but still supplying hot water, it doesn't make sense that they should be without hot water for three days (a higher electric bill, yes). Turn the controller off and replace it when a new box comes in. I don't see the need to turn off the entire hot water heater.
Posted by Principissa on 2008-01-11:
We have a lot of whirlpool appliances in the new house. Now I understand why the water heater is not whirlpool. I will certainly steer clear of them when it's time to by a new one!
Posted by smartin on 2008-01-29:
I read plumberman's review of the Whirlpool Energy Smart water heater. Though I have never purchased an Energy Smart water heater I have purchased many high effiency water heaters (.93 energy factor or higher) and have attempted to make my own version of an Energy Smart water heater by purchasing a 240 Volt 24 hour analogue timer with three separate settings to control my heater according to our family's specific needs. I work for an electric utility and have been an Energy Specialist for 20 plus years. I have found this to be a very good reliable way to reduce hotwater standby heating losses. I also would add that in addition to the timer I recommend to purchase as high an energy factor water heater as possible, and if the tank is not insulated on the bottom to include a 2 inch extruded polystyrene pad and appropriately sized drain pan for the tank to sit in when doing the instalation. That being said, I now have a family of two and find that setting my morning setting for 1.5 hours (5-6:30), an afternoon setting of .5 hours (12-12:30) and an evening setting of one hour 4:30-5:30) has been working quite well. That gives me a total of 3 hours of water heating, that is all, prior to doing this I ran a logger on my not so efficient tank and found that it was running an average of 8 hours a day. At 5 hours a day savings and a 3.5 kW heating element that amounts to 525 kWh a month. Depending on your power rates that timer could pay for itself in the first month.
For those occasions when we have extra usage like company there is a bypass on the timer that allows the unit to run normally till it hits the next setting.
Plummerman might consider this alternative next time instead of trusting high tech to do the job.
Oh, by the way, This timmer is now going on its second water heater and still going strong.
Posted by mrbob on 2008-02-02:
I have to say that I am also having poor reliability problems with my 1 year old energy smart water heater and the customer service sucks. Basically we are not getting hot water past two showers (household of three). The sensor unit was flashing 4 times which the manual states is an upper element failure so i called customer service number listed in the manual and it just rang forever no pick up no message. Then I called a completely separate whirlpool service number from a different appliance, they picked up immediately and and a pleasant lady told me she didnt handled water heaters but would try to help - she eventually asked me to hold and transfered me to the right department. A very non perky, non interested person answered the phone, half listened to my issue and stated he would send out a new sensor - i paused him and asked didn't 4 flashes indicate an element problem? He fairly rudely asked if i got hot water and i responded "some" and then repeated his previous statement about sending out a new sensor.
The new sensor is now carefully installed and originally the sensor stayed green but it now flashes three times and we still do not have hot water past a few showers.
Posted by Chief6A on 2008-03-13:
Yeah I seem to be having the same problem with mine I bought it at Lowes and Installed it and Now for the last 3 months or so Perodically it is just shuting off, but its not kicking the breaker in the fusebox?? I reset the water heater and it goes through the functions and then like 20 mins later just losses power. IF ANYONE CAN HELP ME WITH THIS PROBLEM I WOULD APPRECIATE IT! Never Again Will I Buy A WhrilPool Product because I called there so called coustmer service and they were a joke they couldnt help me one bit and i dont know what to do next!. firstname.lastname@example.com
Posted by JAbraham on 2008-05-20:
If you've been messed over by a corporation, how do you get its attention? By taking legal action! Such as small claims court!
Posted by Melina41 on 2008-08-25:
When my usual plumber couldn't fix my Flame Guard water heater (the plastic drain cock was cross-threaded so he was afraid he'd flood the place if he attempted to drain it) I called Whirlpool to recommend a plumber. The only Whirlpool-recommended person who would pick up the phone wanted $175 just to walk in the door. My usual plumber (licensed and insured) charges $40 minimum. I have a feeling no plumber wants to represent Whirlpool in any fashion, and I don't blame them.
Posted by HandyDan on 2011-01-25:
I purchased a home in 2006 that had a 1 year old Whirlpool Energy Star 50 gal waterheater in it. Since that time the electronic control board has gone bad 2 times. At over $80 for the part alone, I am wishing the previous owner had installed a different unit.
Posted by Fed Up With Whirpool on 2014-01-29:
Purchased a new Energysmart Whirlpool water heater to replace an old one that had gone bad. Terrible experience. Purchased it at Lowe's and had it professionally installed. It provided sporadic hot water regardless of what mode it was set on. Unless you had a hot water tap set on high you got not hot water...turn it to a slower water flow and it turned cold. Couldn't get a hot shower even with faucet turned to high. Called Whirlpool customer service 4 times and emailed 3 times. First two calls were worthless, sounded like a got a person sitting there reading off a checklist, then she said she'd send me a PDF file to address my problem. The PDF file did not address my problem! At each contact their customer service kept trying to blame my lack of hot water on a plumbing problem in my house ???? I repeatedly asked them how it could be a plumbing problem when all we did was take out an existing water heater and put a new one in it's place. They kept insisting I had a problem with cold water feeding back into the hot water line ???? Made no sense. Finally in frustration contacted Lowe's and they sent their original installer back out and he got on the phone with Whirlpool (this is because Whirlpool refused to send out one of their "technicians" because the distance was 38 miles). I stood there while they instructed my installer to go through a series of check items which in my mind had nothing to do with the problem and they also told him it had to be a plumbing problem. After he got off the phone he said "they refuse to acknowledge there is anything wrong with their product". He took it upon himself to contact Lowe's and told them what he had gone through with Whirlpool and that I still didn't have hot water enough to take showers or even do dishes. The manager at my local Lowe's told him they would swap out that unit for a new one with no charge to me. That obviously made me very happy but I got on the phone and told them I didn't want another one of the Energysmart ones because I had no faith in them at this point, nor in Whirlpools ability to trouble shoot them. They agreed to swap out the Energysmart for a "regular" type and give me credit for the difference. This all happened within one day. After installation of the replacement "regular" type water heater we had hot water as normal. I give 5 stars to my local Lowe's store and zero stars to Whirlpool. And if Lowe's had handled any other brand of water heater I would not have had a Whirlpool for the swap out. I wonder what Whirlpool can say about my "plumbing problem" now that another regular water heater appears to be working just fine. I hope I don't have to deal with Whirlpool customer service ever again.
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Whirlpool Gas Water Heater, Will Not Stay Lit
Posted by Freondude on 05/02/2007
SPANAWAY, WASHINGTON -- We replaced a 40 gal gas Rheem water heater that was about 10 years old. The hot water was not entirely clear so I decided it was time for a new one. Note that this Rheem had not once ever lost its flame to include during a 3 day power outage during a bad windstorm in Nov 06.
Lowes had a good selection and I chose the Whirlpool because of the 12 year warranty. Lowes said it would take 5 days for the tank to arrive but it took about a month... but thats another story.
The Whirpool water heater (SG1J5040T3NOV) was installed Mar 07 by a contractor sent by Lowes. Installation went by fine. Not 10 minutes after he left, the flame went out. Ok no problem, its not rocket science to relight it so I did so. It went out 8 times that day. So many times that I left the metal shield off because I was having to relight it so often. It went out sometime during that night. In the morning, I relit it again so we could take showers. I had to literally babysit it and relight it constantly. There was so much condensation dripping on the burner that the flame was orange instead of blue. That morning, I also noticed the collar at the base that screens out bugs, had popped off.
I am no mechanical engineer but I have a fair amount of common sense and do many things around the house and repair my own vehicles. My thoughts were that the condensation dripping down from the flue was excessive and snuffed out the flame to include the pilot flame. I see it as a design flaw fixable by having a measure in place that protects the pilot and burner. The condensation dripping is an unavoidable action that occurs as the cold water in the tank raises in temp to a point where condensation will not occur. This dripping reoccurs whenever the tank is emptied of its hot water and filled with cold.
The 2nd possibility I thought of was that the burner was not getting enough air flow. The vent pipe is supposed to have a 1/4" per foot rise as a minimum. This 50 gal tank was about 3 inches taller than the 40 gal tank it replaced. My vent pipe is now perfectly level.
I called the installer and was told to contact Whirlpool for a "Work Authorization" number. The installer said since my vent pipe was only 4 ft long, the lack of the 1/4" rise per foot was not an issue. I called Whirlpool and the service rep was trying every explanation to me other than giving the authorization number. They reluctantly gave me the authorization number saying it was worth a $90 service call. The rep also asked me to try a "smoking match test" at the top of the tank by the vent pipe. This was to ensure there was adequate flow through the vent pipe and truly rule out any problem with the vent pipe being level without a rise. I did the test and the match smoke went right into the vent pipe. Not sure if that really proves anything though.
I decided to give the tank a few days and maybe it would stabilize its performance and stay lit. Sorta like getting broke in. As Murphy's law would have it, the water heater stayed lit for the next month. Crazy. Yesterday, after one of my kids finished a leisurely shower, it started up again with the dripping condensation snuffing out the flame. No hot water for me and the wife from a 50 gal tank. The Rheem 40 gal tank never did this.
The saga will continue as I am waiting for the installer to come make an assessment.
In my humble opinion, buying a Whirlpool water heater is not worth the trouble. I read the problems others have had with thermocouples burning out and I can only hope that does not start with mine.
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Posted by cinweek2 on 2008-04-04:
I have the same water heater, and have been having the same problem for the past 6 months. FED UP!!!!! We did a DIY installation after purchasing it from Lowes a little over a year ago, and started having problems shortly after. Same thing, condensation drips on the burner, and it cuts off several times a day. If you found anything out, I'd love to know! Thanks!
Posted by rico10314 on 2009-01-25:
OMG this is the exact same problem I was having with my unit. Sorry this information is just getting out there but my unit just started having these symptoms now. I guess I lucky. I called the number on the unit and they were very helpful. They told me that my unit was having a condensation problem. Switch the thermostate control to 150 degrees and don't use the water for 4 hours. So far so good. I was so worried. I read all these reviews and that just destroyed my wknd. I've been beating myself up because i'm the type that does so much research before making a purchase and i was sold by the whirlpool and energy effiecent lable. Hope you guys get lucky too. Oh one more thing before I called the number on the unit i also vaccummed the vent underneath the flame. Don't know if that helped but i figured i might as well mention it.
Posted by tommy lim on 2013-03-26:
i agree whirlpool is horrible they send me the wrong conversion kit two seperate times, i just finally replace it, and it still doesnt work. they dont follow up with you on the phone they tell you to do something and they say its fix then 2 hours later the pilot light then you have to repeat your story to someone else
Posted by Robyn on 2013-07-01:
The exact same thing is going on with our whirlpool hot water heater. this happened last year for a period of two weeks. we also are keeping the cover off so that we can see the pilot light. then it mysteriously started to work again. now this year, it started to act up again whenever the temps started to hit the 90's. we also thought condensation... now the humidity is low the temps are in the 70's and this thing still will not stay lit. we are going to replace it with something besides whirlpool...
never again will we buy a hot water tank by them.
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Whirlpool Water - Model FG1H4040T3NOV; S/N 0537119437; PROD. # 0730266
Posted by Waterheater2544 on 11/25/2007
MISSISSIPPI -- I am writing about a water heater that we purchased on Oct. 1, 2005 for our rental house in Pascagoula, MS after Hurricane Katrina. The house had sustained damage from 2 feet of water that was a result of the storm surge. My husband went to Lowes and purchased a 40 gallon gas water heater to replace the one that had been ruined by the storm. His mistake was that he went to Lowes and bought a Whirlpool (nightmare) water heater. Since the purchase and installation we discovered the error of our purchase.
The water heater lasted about 20 months (that's 1 year, 8 months) and then the problem started. In June 2007 the burner went out and would not light so of course we went to Lowes to see about repair or replacement. Lowes told us that since we did not purchase the extended service plan we would have to go back to Whirlpool Product Service. That's when we went to the internet to get info on Whirlpool Product Service and found the Consumer Affairs .com article on these water heaters. The article was right! We called Whirlpool Product Service and they gave us the name of a plumber who would replace the thermocouple. Then we could have the plumber call Whirlpool Product Service and tell them the part was bad and they would send him the part. All we had to pay was shipping and installation or we could purchase the part locally have the plumber install it and send in the receipt for the part. We opted to have a plumber buy the part and repair the water heater.
Before we could send in the receipt we received the Class Action Lawsuit letter telling us what our rights were. The letter offered a free replacement of the thermocouple assembly (a $15.00 value). Since we had already spent $149.77 to have the water heater repaired we did not see any positive outcome here. We were right, in October 2007 the water heater thermocouple went out again. This time we just replaced the water heater with a RHEEM water heater at a cost of $600.00. Copies of invoices attached.
The reason we are sending this letter is to let you know that your product stinks and that we will never purchase another Whirlpool Product or any appliance at Lowes. We also plan to give this letter as wide a distribution as we can determine is applicable.
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Posted by sliderule43 on 2008-02-13:
Same here. After reading many posted reviews of expensive faulty repairs, I didn't bother with the repair. I simply paid my plumber $650 to replace my 3 year old Flamelock (from Lowes), with his recommended Bradford brand. I will probably never buy another Whirlpool product (which leaves GE and a few foreign names). Whirlpool was so foolish. It should have offered a significant dollar credit to the purchase of another Whirlpool product. Foolish company. It has lost many customers for all its products. As for Lowes. I have always tried to minimize store returns, to be fair to the store. No longer. I will not hesitate to return anything to Lowes, no matter how minor the issue. Customers can always get back at the store, when they feel they have been unfairly wronged. Lowes should have worked out a credit with its customers. They couldn't care less. Well, now neither can I.
Posted by Joey on 2011-11-30:
Hi, I install water heaters professionally and have found these WaterHeaters to be junk. They fail about twice a year and tanks rust fast!!! Good job on buying a Rheem, I install them and BradfordWhite. Whirlpool waterheaters are horrible!!!
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Stay Away from the FLAME LOCK Water Heater-same problem as others mentioned
Posted by 90713PC on 07/02/2006
LAKEWOOD, CA, CALIFORNIA -- I agree with PJ46350 (see below). No hot water for 2 days. Water heater is 2 years old. Holiday weekend-of course. Gas Company unable to ignite flame, because of the sealed firebox..the plumber could not find left threaded part anywhere...I told him check Lowes, as that is where the "Flame Lock" water tank was originally purchased. Plumber quickly found it on asile #13. Here is the part number you'll need Part #6910495, SKU #198750, 1 year warranty (you're gonna need it). I don't like a company that monopolizes like that. What if Lowes goes out of business..what do we do then?
Anyway..as instructed by the Whirlpool manual I called them...beware they are not open on weekends or holidays. If they are..their number is not posted anywhere that I can find it. The plumber is installing the part, at this writing. It's taking him an hour to dis-assemble the area just to replace the $15.00 part. I'll be writing him a big check for the repair, and sending the $202.00 receipt to Whirlpool, in hope for a refund (the price paid for the water heater was $565.77(price includes installation)...as I hope the water heater is still under warranty...the language on the warranty has so many loop holes...I really don't know if it is covered. If they do not refund the repair..I will never buy Whirlpool again. I'm concerned because Whirlpool has a 1.5 star out of a possible 5. That's nothing to be proud of. Had I had read all the other reviews, I would have had NEVER purchased this tank. I can't believe there hasn't been a class action law suit, or a recall on this item.
In addition, I just sent an email to Lowes, American Water Heater and Whirlpool. I'll be sure to follow up with this post and let you know what kind of response I receive.
Thank you for your time.
Whirlpool Complaint
Stay Away from the Flame Lock
Posted By: pj46350 on 8/16/2005
I have replaced 20 to 30 thermocouples on various furnaces and water heaters. This is the strangest system I have seen. I put a 40 gallon Whirlpool flame lock water heater in a rental unit and had no problems for about a year.
Then the pilot would not stay lit. At this point I discovered the flamelock thermocouple (with left hand threads) had to be purchased special at Lowes. LOwes said that all I had to do was call whirlpool and get a RGA number and it would be free. I tried for 40 minutes but the number was busy so being a rental unit, just purchased it. It was over $15.00. Well the thermo couple has gone bad two more times since then. The last one lasting only a day. YES... it was installed precisely to their specs. The unit is just plain junk.
I'm thinking of changing the unitrol RobertShaw control gas valve to one that accepts right hand threaded thermocouples and tearing a hole in their silly vented bottom so that it is sure to get enough air. I have had trouble with other Whirlpool products so I should have known. I think I read somewhere on the Whirlpool site, you need to disassemble it and clean it every few months.....what nonsense.
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Posted by 90713PC on 2006-07-02:
thank you...I hope all goes well.
I hope NO MORE people buy this unit. It's a costly headache.
Posted by rah332 on 2006-07-02:
the water heaters have changed due to new regulations. All new wtr htrs have the new sealed burner compartement. It is not just your brand. Yes it is a pain in the butt to replace due to the sealed compartement which takes longer to replace the thermocouple. And if you tear the seal, your in big trouble. the older wtr htrs would take me 5 mins to replace. not so with the newer models. The safety codes and standards( AGA: American Gas Association) have changed due to fires and liquid fuel vapors(gasoline, kerosine, etc) that can ignite with the older models. If the seal is torn or comprimized, it will void the warranty. Sad to say, the consumers have their hands tied behind their back.We as service people for the utility company are constanly shaking our heads as well. good luck...
Posted by 90713PC on 2006-07-02:
Thank you rah332 for your comment..I understand what you're saying...but if they're going to make new regulations, that make the product safer, but malfuntions on a regular basis, then they should be required to be prepared to help the consumer in their time of need.
I don't blame the Gas company for not breaking the seal...
I blame the mfg. for not supplying the consumer with the knowledge that we're buying a water heater that is suppose to last for at least 12 years, but beware of the left threaded thermocouple. At least when you buy a sweater or a blouse, they'll throw in an extra button in case one falls off the shirt. Plus, why left threaded?? a part that can only be purchased at Lowe's??? That's not right.
Posted by rah332 on 2006-07-02:
due to the new regulation and changes in the wtr htrs, the thermocouple incoporates a special sensor at the tip. that is why a regualar right threaded thermocouple will not work. not everyone carries that right now. Thermocouples are like batteries. they wear out. I would keep one just in case it goes out again. the fine print on the wtr htr-- the warranty for 5-12yrs (depending on the model) is for the tank not the control and thermocouple- which is usually for one yr. The correct thermocouple can be purchased at appliance parts stores, not just lowes. I know, info is a little too late. As far as throwing an extra part, that would be great. the only problem is the weekend warrior that tried to make the repairs. I have seen many homeowners/jack of all trades/landlords try to replace the parts and only to leave a major GAS LEAK!!! That type of repairs needs to be done by a professional or knowledgable person.
Posted by Doc J on 2006-07-03:
Very interesting post and a very educational commentary. Like with autos, there seems to be a corporate goal to prevent consumers from completing routine maintenance/service. My favorite was a pocket device a colleague showed me a few months ago. The instructions told him to "Insert batteries prior to use." Great idea! But, there was a sticker on the device over the seam on the battery compartment that said, "Warranty void if this seal is broken."
Posted by 90713PC on 2006-07-03:
Thank you Rah and Doc.
I'll pick up the extra part, only when I receive the refund for the work. If I do not receive a refund for this ordeal. I'll wait until it goes out again...then I'll buy another water heater. My last water heater was 20 years old...I never had one problem with it, until it sadly pass away one day.
Posted by rah332 on 2006-07-03:
The older type you had is long gone. It would be very hard to find one. I had to search quite awhile for one 2 yrs ago. I noticed you live in ca. I work for pge doing service work. I just shake my head every time I see one of those units. We just throw our hands up and refer the cust to the dealer.
Posted by Doc J on 2006-07-03:
rah-I hope you become a regular contributor to this site. Your understanding of such matters would be helpful to people who visit here. All best.
Posted by 90713PC on 2006-07-05:
UPDATE: I spoke with Michelle from American Water Heaters, regarding the 2 year old water heater.
She said the warranty does not transfer to the new home owner (me), and being that I didn't clean the lint screen every three months, the warranty would not have been honored, even if I was the original purchaser. Being that said..I told her to make a note that this consumer will never purchase a Whirlpool item again. She said.."We're not Whirlpool...We're American Water Heater." I said..."I won't buy anything made by your company again..Even if I have to go out of the country to purchase it."
I was under the impression that she didn't care (big shocker).
We hung up.
Buyer BEWARE.
Posted by Squeezebox on 2008-04-27:
I inherited this mess when I bought the house! One of the reasons I bought this house is that the hot water heater was less than a year old! Three years later, imagine my outrage when I find out that my 2004 heater has already crapped out!!!! Those things are supposed to last at least ten years and often twenty! My sister bought another WP and it failed at less than two years! The manufacturer made her pay shipping for the part and refused to pay for the plumber. If the Whirlpool Corporation licenses their good name to crapmakers like this, you can imagine how bad their other products are. I was looking for this info and found class actions on the Calypso and other Whirlpool products.
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Poor Customer Service
Posted by Pokerduece on 02/04/2005
MACON, ILLINOIS -- I purchased a flame lock water heater on March 13, 2004 from Lowes in Forsyth, IL. We installed the water heater Nov. 19, 2004. On Dec.31, 2004 the thermocouple burnt out. I called my son-in-law, as luck would have it, he was at Lowes and stated he knew what the problem was and he would pick up a thermocouple and he installed it for us. The reason he knew what was wrong, he owns the same water heater and has now replaced 4 thermocouples in less than 7 months. The last one lasted 10 days. I went to Lowes a few days later to speak with the manager about the problem with the water heaters, and was told he was in a meeting. I talked with a zone manager and preceded to tell him about the defective water heater, and asked for Lowes help to resolve my issue. I explained I was told by Lowe employees that this is an ongoing issue and they have passed out hundreds of cases of thermocouples. I also advised him that I did not want to have to drive 40 miles round trip to replace the thermocouple every 6 weeks. He was quite nice and took my name and number and stated he would call Whirlpool and let me know what they said. I told him I was calling Whirlpool also. He refunded the money I paid for the thermocouple, and gave me a spare, and apologized for the inconvenience.
I sent Whirlpool an e-mail because they were closed for the Holiday. I did receive a call from American Water Heater Co. which I found out makes Whirlpool water heaters. He asked me a series of questions to determine why the thermocouple burned out. He had me to do a draft test to determine if there was enough air flow. He stated the flame should be going directly into the vent. Since I only had a lighter and not a match to test, it was difficult to determine because I had to turn the lighter sideways, and the flame only wanted to go straight up. He determined that it was an installation problem. I explained to him about all the thermocouples they were replacing at Lowes and there was no way, that all of these water heaters were improperly installed. I stated to him I believe it is a design defect or a manufacturing defect. He stated that was my opinion and we hung up. I contacted Whirlpool customer service again by phone and was transferred to Am. Wtr. Htr Co. again. The CSR told me the same thing. It is an installation problem, advised me to send copies of the water heater, the area it was in, my furnace and the vents. I sent these over 3 weeks ago, and still have not heard from anyone. Eight days ago I contacted Whirlpool again by e-mail and have not heard from anyone. This is the poorest customer service I have ever encountered. I am going to return the water heater back to Lowes and get my money back.
I would not recommend Whirlpool products to anyone, and I will never buy another one of there products.
Pam Randol
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Posted by Michael D on 2005-06-14:
I want to thank you for taking the time to publish your problems with the Whirlpool hot water heaters. After 14 years my current Ruud hot water heater has "died". I initially purchased a new whirlpool hot water heater from Lowes. After reviewing all the apparent problems with the whilpool heaters I cancelled the install and had my purchase refunded. I have made arrangements to replace my Ruud heater with another current Ruud model. I feel confident, thanks to you and so many others that have voiced their opinion on the lack of performance of whilpool hot water heaters, that I have avoided much hardached and headaches. Thank you again for taking the time to voice your opinions. I sincerely hope you have been able to resolve / fix your problems with your whilpool heater. Happy showers!!!
Posted by EthanPreston on 2006-06-05:
I am a class action attorney looking for witnesses who have personal experience with Whirlpool's Flame Lock-brand water heater.
This may be an advertisement in your jurisdiction.
Posted by 90713PC on 2006-07-02:
I have the same problem...did Lowe's give you a new water heater?
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Trail of Tears
Posted by Wickedmessenger on 12/01/2007
CHARLESTON, SOUTH CAROLINA -- Let me add my voice to the throngs of thousands who've had thermocouple problems with this wretched, wretched beast. I do believe I have new info that I haven't seen on the internet yet, though. I, too, have had a thermocouple go out after 3 years of service (pretty good compared to others) and have just spent the last 2 days trying to locate a replacement thermocouple. All other (thousands) of complaints I've read said that they could get them at Lowe's and only Lowe's. However, I have found out that Lowe's no longer carries the natural gas thermocouple, just the LP gas one. And nobody -- of all the appliance parts places I could find both local and on the Internet -- can get this part. They can't even pull this water heater up on their system. They can't order the part if you give them the part number. I even spent much time on the phone with Whirlpool who told me my model number was wrong and wasn't registering.
So I double checked and double checked and yep, I had the right number off the data plate. So I called back and got another operator and she said, "oh, yeah, we don't handle water heaters on this line, you have to dial 877-817-6750." And I did. The first menu item is about the class action lawsuit. No time for that, I waited for the selection that would let me talk with someone about ordering a thermocouple. No dice. The system just kept hanging up on me. I finally took the advice of one of the exasperated fellow sufferers I found on the Internet who said just throw it out and buy a new water heater. It is less trouble in the long run. So I did. Now I have spent $600 in 3 years, unlike the one I replaced 3 years ago that lasted 16 years before finally leaking.
And it never needed a thermocouple in all that time. And I got off cheaply, I realize, because I do all my own work and I didn't have to pay someone (Lowe's charges $300) for an installation. I double and triple the advice of others when I say REPLACE THE WHOLE WATER HEATER rather than deal with Whirlpool, their horrible hotline, and their horrible product.
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Posted by killerklown on 2007-12-01:
Tail of tears is a little overly-dramatic, wouldn't you say?
Posted by DigitalCommando on 2007-12-01:
Anyone who could refer to a water heater as a "wretched, wretched beast" is o.k. in my book!
Posted by Wickedmessenger on 2007-12-01:
yes, "tail of tears" is a little overly-dramatic. But "trail of tears" gets it in a nutshell. Loosen up killerklown! And don't buy a flame lock water heater! Or do, and see what you call it.
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Flamelock Water Heaters
Posted by Charmichellemullenix on 12/13/2007
79110 -- I purchased my water heater from Lowes after 5 days it would not stay lit I called customer service at that time they had a plummer that did warranty work for them he said they always have this problem (thermocouple) he showed up with one already to go. The replacement lasted a week I called Whirlpool back they told me they no longer had a repairman in my area so they gave me a po for a free thermo coupler I went to Lowes and spent an hour getting an ok for the thermo I replaced myself it lasted 6 days I called them again and the said the air flow was not sufficient I informed them that I was a contractor and that I was aware of what air flow was needed and was told that they would get me a thermocouple I informed them that I have already replaced it twice their response was that they could do nothing else. I called Lowes they told me to bring the product back and they would replace it with a new water heater I reinstalled the water heater and 3 days later had the same problem. The customer service at Whirlpool is rude they try to tell people that the problem is improper air flow even though every other water heater brand works in the same area.
Whirlpool has no intention in making this right with anyone they just took everyones money knew the product was faulty and kept on selling the product anyway. I will not recommend any Whirlpool product to friends or customers ever. You mess up admit it make it right thats how a real company does business
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Posted by Anonymous on 2007-12-13:
Dang, if they took the first one back, why didn't you just try a different brand - that's what I woulda done.
Posted by Anonymous on 2007-12-13:
Charmichellemullenix, went thru the same drill. I contacted Whirlpool and they told me that they had a problem with the Flamelock Water Heater. They were really nice about it. And to go buy the thermocouple at Lowes and send them a receipt and they would pay me back. They never did but they did send me two more a couple weeks later. I replaced it myself and it has been OK since last summer. I now have two on the shelf just in case. (VH post)
Posted by Principissa on 2007-12-13:
I would have just bought a different brand or model of water heater. That sounds like nothing but aggravation having to constantly call up to get parts and then replace them almost weekly. If they know this is a problem and openly admit they have these problems I would demand they give you a refund.
Posted by Anonymous on 2007-12-13:
Princi, I tried that and got nowhere with Whirlpool or Lowes. They "claim" there is no reason for them to replace the heater under warranty as it's only a $10 part and it may never go bad again. Crossing fingers and keeping a couple extra on the shelf. When the heater dies for good I am going to try one of the new tankless water heaters.
Posted by Principissa on 2007-12-13:
Super I would be so mad. How are they telling you there is nothing wrong when the darn thing breaks once a week. It's the same part, so there is clearly some kind of flaw with the heater.
Fingers crossed you don't have to fix the thing any time soon!
Posted by Anonymous on 2007-12-13:
Yes I agree 100%, common sense and sound logic seem to be in short supply at Whirlpool these days. The worst part was when the wife went to take a shower and we found out there was no hot water. Of course it was all my fault, I did "something" to it. LOL
Posted by Principissa on 2007-12-13:
I could imagine! Nothing better than starting your day with an ice cold shower! It would be a safe bet not to talk to me that day. And of course my poor sweet hubby would feel that wrath.
Posted by Anonymous on 2007-12-13:
"Judge a man by his questions rather than by his answers" -- Voltaire
Posted by Anonymous on 2007-12-13:
Good morning Stew, yes I always seem to have more questions than answers.
Posted by Anonymous on 2007-12-13:
Things are heating up around here again I see. Stew and Superbowl make a nice thermo-couple, don't you guys agree?
Posted by Anonymous on 2007-12-13:
Michelle, we have several appliance experts on this site and I fully expect you to receive some good advice from them.
Posted by Anonymous on 2007-12-13:
Sheriff!! (as DB would say)
Posted by Anonymous on 2007-12-15:
Settled class action law suit on Flamelock Water Heaters @ http://www.waterheatersettlement.com.
Whirlpool Corp., et al. Settlement
The Settlement was approved on October 11, 2007. Settlement benefits will be distributed after all appellate or review rights with respect to the Final Approval Order have expired.
The Settlement resolves a class action lawsuit and claims against Whirlpool Corporation, Lowe's HIW, Inc., American Water Heater Company, and A.O. Smith Corporation. The lawsuit alleged that "Flame Lock" and "Flame Guard" water heaters made and sold by these companies, equipped with single-use thermocouples, and sold from 2000 through 2006, are defective in that their thermocouples are prone to premature activation. The companies denied allegations.
Settlement Benefits
If you are a Class Member, you may be eligible to receive an upgraded manifold door assembly for your water heater or reimbursement for a prior purchase of the upgraded assembly and/or reimbursement for a prior purchase of a replacement thermocouple or reimbursement for buying a replacement water heater after suffering multiple thermocouple activations. Please review the Notice for complete details regarding these benefits. To make a claim for settlement benefits, you must send in a completed Claim Form, postmarked no later than June 28, 2008. Download a Claim Form.
Fairness Hearing
The Settlement was approved on October 11, 2007. The Court awarded Plaintiffs' Counsel attorneys' fees in the amount of $1,900,000.00 and out-of-pocket expenses incurred in the prosecution of the litigation totaling $135,000.00.
Posted by MLA2520 on 2008-06-16:
I bought my water heater in 2003 - the thermocouple had previously went out 5 times until 5 days ago when it happened for the 6th time. I received my Whirlpool "Repair" kit (I believe this is the same one as specified in the settlement) on 06/16/2008. The heater ran for about 45 minutes until it broke again! I will never buy another Whirlpool product.
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2008/2009 Whirlpool & Lowe's Continue To Sell Known Defective Water Heater After Class Action Lawsuit Succeeds
Posted by Mellado on 03/19/2009
WOODLAND HILLS, CALIFORNIA -- After May 2008 which was the deadline for entering into the class action lawsuit in Ca vs Lowe's and Whirlpool, they cont'd to sell these exact same defective water heater where the pilot light goes out for no apparent reason - over & over again. I bought mine 4/28/08 and paid $411 for the water heater & $450 to install it. I've had the gas com out here 3 x and the Whirlpool contract plumber out here 2x and no amount of fixing can do it. The heater is in the house in a well-ventilated & immaculate closet so Whirlpool explanations /excuses are groundless. My $411 is due to Lowe's end of April 09 and not only am I not paying them, I'm taking them to small claims court to collect the installation fee and any bad/punitive damages I can win. Write the company CEO Jeff Fettig, 2000 N. M-63 in Benton Harbor Mich 49022.
An utter failure who will be responsible for Whirlpool going bankrupt. And their foreign-speaking Customer Service is atrocious. Can't understand them.
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Posted by SilverWngs71 on 2009-03-19:
The only downside to this that I can see is that Whirlpool does not make this product. It is a licensed product. Another company paid the Whirlpool Corporation for the right to put the Whirlpool name on a product that the other company designed and manufactured. The # that you keep calling is way out of the U.S. and can only be contacted through that #. The Whirlpool customer service reps that you speak to here in the U.S. unfortunately cannot handle Water Heater calls because of the 3rd party status.
Posted by mellado on 2009-03-20:
To my semi-legally trained mind ( 1 yr law school, 21 yrs LAPD and extensive reading over 65 yrs of living), if a mfgr allows his corporate name to be placed on a product that is built by a 3rd party under license,representing it as his own product, that the retailer, the actual builder and the corporate brand name are all = liable for warranty defect. My easiest legal pursuit is with Lowe's who is local and knowingly sold massive #'s of Whirlpool UG and FG Flamehold (how ironic the name!) waterheaters after they all knew of a massive class auction lawsuit vs this very Whirlpool water heater which was successful May 2008, 2 weeks after I bought mine from Lowe's. The entire lawsuit never appeared on any of their websites and was kept hushed up. Whirlpool & Maytag decades ago were THE brand names on which to rely. Now Maytag has recalled- it's in the news- their refrigerators. I'm reasonably sure Whirlpool owns the Maytag brand now! What does that say?
Posted by SilverWngs71 on 2009-03-20:
Yes, Whirlpool does own the Maytag name as of 2006. It's very possible that the model # on the water heater you have and the ones in the CAL are different or your might have the new flamelock that is the universal one where the water heaters sold back in 2006 had a none universal flamelock.
"While consumers who have purchased Flame Lock and Flame Guards since 2007 have not shared the frustrations of older customers, anyone who purchased one of the models between 2000 and 2006 is eligible for the upgraded parts, according to the settlement's website, www.waterheatersettlement.com.
Those consumers are entitled to the upgraded manifold door assembly shipped free to them or receive reimbursement for any previously upgraded manifold door assembly and shipping costs previously incurred.
The settlement does not cover installation costs."
"Whirlpool water heaters are actually made by the American Water Heater Company (AWHC), one of four such manufacturers in the United States."
I'm not an employee but I do understand the frustration of the callcenter overseas and know what it is like to speak with them or ones like them.
Hope all works out for you.
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Don't Buy Whirlpool Water Heater
Posted by Unhappy with Whirlpool on 11/17/2008
I am writing in regard to a Whirlpool water heater (Model #FG1F4034T3NOV) that we purchased from Lowe's in May 2004. The water heater stopped working on a Saturday morning (11/1/08). We tried lighting the pilot light several times, but it would not stay on. When we called Lowe's, they gave us a 1-800 number to call, but, we were not able to reach anyone at that number until Monday morning (already two days without hot water). I was told that there was a defect in these models and that we would need to obtain a part and either install it ourselves or have someone install it, so that our water heater would work properly again. I was told that I could pay $15 to have the part mailed to me and probably would receive it the next day.
This, to me, was unacceptable. We have a family of four who had already been without hot water for 3 days and now I was going to have to pay for a part to be shipped and wait another 2 days for hot water! The man on the phone said I could go to Lowe's and the part would be available free of charge. It was then up to me to install it or "if I didn't feel comfortable doing so" I could hire someone to install it. I went Lowe's. They didn't know what I was talking about, but vaguely remembered this happening to another customer.
They called another Lowe's store and that store said that they weren't sure, but they might have the part I was talking about. At this point, I was very frustrated. If this was a problem with these models, why wouldn't Whirlpool make the parts more available and make their retail distributors more aware that customers may be looking for this part??? I then drove 35 miles round trip to get the part. When I opened it up, I realized there was no way I could install this part myself….. why would they even suggest that the customer install this on their own? I called a plumber that would be able to come before closing time that day (trying to avoid after-hours charges and trying to get hot water before yet another day went by!).
The plumber was quite familiar with this model and this problem with the thermocouple (which tells me this is probably a widespread problem with this model). The plumber charged me $221 to install the part and make sure the water heater was operating properly. I was relieved to have hot water, but angry that we had to pay money for this problem that was not our responsibility!
I don't understand how you as a reputable company (not reputable in my eyes anymore) can not take responsibility for a defect in one of your products. Why should the consumer have to pay the price of fixing a defect in a product that we bought just 4 years ago and is still under warranty? We felt confident that we were buying a quality product and that Whirlpool would stand behind their products, but now I feel very differently. I will not buy Whirlpool products anymore.
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Posted by madconsumer on 2008-11-18:
what is the warranty on the water heater? some parts are not covered, neither install.
Posted by Slimjim on 2008-11-18:
These Whirlpool Flame Lock heaters must be absolute junk. This place is teaming with complaints about them. I don't think I've seen more than one or two complaints about any other water heater online in my entire cyber-life.
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Class Notes
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Holly Hanbury-Brown '12 is now an associate editor at Discovery Girls Magazine! Thank you to Steven Saum for teaching me so much about publishing a quality magazine with high standards and a mission to better our world. Shoutouts to Chuck Barry, Clay Hamilton, and Russ Morris too! Long live Bucky!
Victoria (Watson) '12 and Steffen Hack '11 married on July 21, 2012, at the Mission Church. The ceremony was presided by Fr. Michael Engh, S.J. The wedding party included maid of honor Danielle Espinal '12, and bridesmaids Julia Hill-Wright '12 and Sarah Safir '12. Additional broncos in attendance were Whitney Nelson '12, Kortney Wynn '12, Jackie Winslow '10, Arthur Gallanter '12, Lena Gipson '11, Josh Fredkin '11, Amy Castello '15, Edward Sousa J.D. '84, and Mike Murphy '80. The newlywed couple is currently living in Santa Clara.
Charles Franz '12, Greg Method '12, and Keegan Wada '12 won 2nd place in the ASME Innovation Showcase on June 2 with their design for improving the braking system of long trains. The team will be using their winnings to assemble a commercial-grade prototype for a 100+-car train.
Justine Folk '12 and Benjamin Williams '11 married on Sept. 15, 2012, in Rocklin, Calif. The wedding party included fellow Broncos Michael Kawamoto '11, Elizabeth Hatch '11, Sarah Esparza '10, and Bianca Frediani '12. The newlyweds are now living in Vacaville.
Christina Fialho '06, J.D. '12 and her colleague Christina Mansfield were named 2012 Echoing Green Fellows for Social Change. Echoing Green provides more than $2 million in seed support social entrepreneurs from around the world every year.
The pair will launch a new project -- Community Initiatives for Visiting Immigrants in Confinement (CIVIC) -- with support from Echoing Green for the first two years. CIVIC is a national network of immigration detention visitation groups, with a mission to end the isolation and abuse of persons in immigration detention by building and strengthening community visitation programs across the U.S. They will provide support to current visitation groups, resources and training to new groups, and a communication platform for all visitation groups.
Fialho, a social activist for immigrant rights and the daughter of an immigrant, has assisted in defending immigrants from detention and deportation before the U.S. Immigration Courts and has argued before the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit. She currently serves on the steering committee of the Detention Watch Network, and her scholarly publications focus on the intersection of immigration law, constitutional law, and international human rights. Prior to starting CIVIC, she co-founded the first immigration detention visitation program in California.
Elisa Delmuro '12 is an account executive at Indeed.com.
Carey DeAngelis '05, MBA '12 and Ben Fredlake were married on November 16, 2013 in Scottsdale, Ariz. The couple resides in Phoenix, Ariz.
Peter Loy Chong Ph.D. '12 is the new archbishop of Suva in Fiji. Appointed by Pope Benedict XVI, Fr. Chong, who hails from the Archdiocese of Suva, is currently in the School of Theology at Santa Clara University, a Jesuit university.
Jason D. Catalano '12, has been commissioned as a second lieutenant in the U.S. Army after successfully completing the Army ROTC (Reserve Officers' Training Corps) program and graduating with a bachelor's degree from Santa Clara University. The new officer will be branched to a specific corps in the Army to serve on active duty or in the National Guard or Reserve.
Jason D. Catalano '12 is serving as a Military Police Officer in the 2nd Cavalry Regiment in Vilseck, Germany. His main duty is assisting the Provost Marshall of the Regiment in: Anti-terrorism operations, Force Protection, Physical Security, Detention Facility operations, and discipline of the unit. Other duties include Conducting joint Police patrols with the German Polizei, Officer Professional Development, and training in Police and Soldier tasks and drills. He is currently deployed to Afghanistan in support of Operation Enduring Freedom as an Officer in Charge of a bomb dog detection unit.
http://www.2cr.army.mil/ http://www.wood.army.mil/usamps/ http://www.scu.edu/rotc/ https://www.facebook.com/jason.catalano1
Megan Brunkhorst '12 is now a Jesuit Volunteer with St. Matthew Catholic School, in Phoenix, Ariz. Based in four core values—social justice, simple living, community, and spirituality—Jesuit Volunteer Corps offers women and men an opportunity to work full-time for justice and peace. JVs serve the poor directly, working for structural change in the United States and in developing countries.
Ropers Majeski Kohn & Bentley, P.C. has added Rachael E. Brown '09, J.D. '12 as an associate in its San Jose office. She graduated cum laude from Santa Clara University and also received a High Tech Law Certificate in Intellectual Property Law. During her time in law school, Brown served as assistant director of the Internal Moot Court program; helped revitalize Equality SCU, a group dedicated to advocating and advancing LGBT issues; served on the board of the Women and Law group, helping to promote the advancement of women in the legal field; and she also worked as a law clerk at RMKB.
Andrew Freyer J.D. '12 was hired as a first-year associate at Dorsey & Whitney's patent practice group in Denver. He received his engineering degree from Case Western Reserve University and his law degree from SCU. Freyer worked with International Gaming Technology during undergraduate school in their engineering program management and firmware engineering department.
Chloe Lynn Wilson '13 writes, "I am thrilled to announce that I will be serving as a Jesuit Volunteer with JVC Northwest for one year beginning in August 2013! I will be a community liaison/tribal court spokesperson with the Northwest Justice Project on the Colville Indian Reservation in Omak, Wash. I especially want to thank all of the Campus ministers who inspired me to pursue this incredible adventure, and who supported me through my application and discernment process!"
https://www.facebook.com/chloeoeoeoe http://www.linkedin.com/pub/chloe-wilson/31/aab/4ab
Justin Viele '13 was drafted by the Baltimore Orioles in the 37th round of the 2013 MLB June Amateur Draft.
Amy Tamayo '13 of Hailey, Idaho, has been chosen to participate in the Congress-Bundestag Youth Exchange for Young Professionals. It is a one-year, federally funded fellowship for study and work in Germany. From more than 600 applicants, Tamayo was selected as one of 75 participants. While in Germany, she will attend a two-month German language course, study at a German university or professional school for four months, and complete a five-month internship with a German company in her career field.
Gabi Solis '13 attended the American Bach Solists Acadamy in San Francisco this past summer where she was a soloist in Bach's Mass in B Minor and Biber's Missa Salisburgensis. A late-night call this fall from the renowned music director Jeffrey Thomas included an invitation to perform with the professionals performing Handel's Messiah at Grace Cathedral Church in San Francisco and at the Mondavi Center at UC Davis in December 2013.
John Michael Reyes '09, M.Div '13 is currently the Campus Minister for Liturgy at Seattle University and cantors for Christ our Hope Parish, the newst Catholic Church in Seattle, Wash.
Spencer Rahn '13 writes that he is actively seeking a job in a the field of analytics, using his love of numbers and analytical mind to solve problems and deliver solutions.
Sarah Perkins '13 has accepted an editorial assistant position for Professional Roofing magazine. She is living in the Chicagoland area and can't wait to see everyone at Grand Reunion in the fall.
Nate May '13 was awarded the American Institute of Chemists Foundation Award in recognition of a record of leadership, ability, character and scholastic achievement. He was also welcomed into Sigma Xi, the national scientific research society.
Goalkeeper Larry Jackson '13 has joined the Colorado Rapids, one of Major League Soccer's ten charter clubs. Jackson was also named the 2012 West Coast Conference Goalkeeper of the Year.
Wes Helmholz J.D. '13 joins the Los Angeles office of Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe.


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Food EscapesJamie brings together recipes from all over Europe by taking short-haul flights to the best foodie locations.
Jamie's Great BritainOver 130 Reasons to love British Food
Meals in MinutesA revolutionary approach to cooking good food fast.
Jamie MagazineThe digital issue of Jamie magazine is now available on iTunes in North America!
Jamie's Great Britain
Over 130 reasons to love British food
Jamie's Great Britain captures the heart and soul of real British cooking - it's full of food that'll make you happy and put a smile on your face. It takes in Jamie's visits to Yorkshire, the east Midlands, Essex, east London, Bristol and Somerset, South Wales and the Scottish Borders, as he immerses himself in the traditions and cultures that make British food so exciting.BUY THE BOOK RECIPES FROM THE SHOW BEHIND THE SCENES
- About Jamie's Great Britain
- Recipes from the show
- Behind the scenes
Jamie's Meals in Minutes
A revolutionary approach to cooking good food fast
If you love food but struggle to find time to eat tasty food every day, then allow Jamie to introduce you to a revolutionary way of cooking. In Meals in Minutes he shows you how to make a main meal, sides and even a pudding in the time you'd normally spend on one dish. What you'll be able to achieve in 30 minutes will absolutely blow your mind!BUY THE BOOK RECIPES FROM THE SHOW
Tapas feast: tortilla, glazed chorizo, manchego cheese, cured meats & honey, stuffed peppers, rolled anchovies
- About 15-Minute Meals
- Recipes from the show
- Recipes from the show
Jamie Oliver Apps
Jamie's 20-Minute Meals
Jamie Oliver's award winning 20-Minute Meals includes 60 quick and easy recipes, videos, step-by-step photography and more.DOWNLOAD FROM ITUNES DOWNLOAD FOR ANDROID
Jamie's Recipes
For the iPhone, iPod touch and iPad, the app makes cooking at home even easier. It is full of handy videos to help you shop, prep and cook.DOWNLOAD FROM ITUNES
Jamie Oliver's Food Guide
Explore your way around Britain with my guide to over 1000 places to eat, visit and shop. Now integrated with Foursquare!DOWNLOAD FROM ITUNES
Food Escapes
Jamie brings together recipes from all over Europe by taking short-haul flights to the best foodie locations.
Jamie's Family Christmas
Filmed at home, Jamie got the whole family together to help out and show that Christmas cooking can be stress-free and fun.
Jamie's America
This book and TV show documents Jamie's culinary trip of a lifetime around the US – from crocodiles, to ex-gang members, to high society.
Jamie Cooks Christmas
Jamie puts his own distinctive twist on food from his favourite time of year.
Jamie's Food Revolution
To accompany the Ministry of Food's foundation and Jamie's plan to spread cooking skills, Jamie's Food Revolution teaches people to cook in 24 hours
Jamie at Home
A TV show and book all about getting down with nature, cooking your own produce and cooking up delicious recipes with it
Cook with Jamie
Jamie's guide to making those at home better cooks, including hits, tips, advice and 160 tasty but simple recipes
Jamie's Italy
This beautiful book and TV series follows Jamie as he travels through his spiritual home, cooking delicious, hearty Italian food
Jamie's Kitchen
While the TV show charts the founding of Fifteen and its apprentice programme, the book teaches readers that can't to cook
Oliver's Twist
Jamie's goes international, inviting people from all over the world to come around for a dinner they?d never forget
Happy Days with The Naked Chef
Happy Days with The Naked Chef saw Jamie expand his horizons with dishes from all over the world, comfort grub, quick fixes and a section on inspiring kids
The Naked Chef Takes Off
Jamie returns with his second bestseller, full of modern, accessible and delicious dishes with those now-recognisable Jamie twists
The Naked Chef
In Jamie's debut he strips food down to its bare essentials to create delicious, sociable food for all occasions


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Narrow your search
Jury rules that Samsung must pay additional damages for patent infringement. The amount is slightly less than what Apple had requested and brings the total award to about $930 million.
The jury of six women and two men have determined Samsung must pay $290 million more to Apple for patent infringement.
Timelines Inc. wins a small victory in its trademark infringement suit against the social network.
Ruling finds that Apple violated three patents from MobileMedia, a holding company jointly owned by Sony, Nokia, and MPEG LA.
In a new filing rebutting Samsung's efforts to get a re-trial, Apple talks up the character of the jury's foreman.
The leader of the jury that decided the fate in the high-profile, high-tech court case goes on TV to discuss the group's process.
week in review Jury verdict favors Apple overwhelmingly in a landmark patent decision. Also: Facebook rolls out new features, and an exclusive peek at tech's most hated company.
The jury for the Apple v. Samsung patent trial has been picked. Tuesday brings opening statements from both companies.
Japanese electronics maker fined $87 million -- but it doesn't expect to pay a cent because of other defendants' settlements.


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Found 13425 Items Tagged "composite"
On View: Double Pegasus, one of four, from the Coney Island High Pressure Pumping Station, 2301 Neptune Avenue, Brooklyn
These sleek modernist versions of Pegasus, the flying horse of classical mythology, once flanked the entrances to the New York City Fire Ser...
Hiroshige's One Hundred Famous Views of Edo
Hiroshige's 118 woodblock landscape and genre scenes of mid-nineteenth-century Tokyo, is one of the greatest achievements of Japanese art.
On View: Inlaid Tomahawk Pipe Bowl
The articles in this case and the adjacent clothing case [see 50.67.6] are some of the earliest and finest East...
Brooklyn Museum Posse:
Exploring the collection
When you join the posse, your tags comments and favorites will display with your attribution and save to your profile.
Found 13425 Items Tagged "composite"
Objects without images:
200 Eastern Parkway
Brooklyn, New York 11238-6052
Eastern Parkway/Brooklyn Museum
Wednesday: 11 a.m.–6 p.m.
Thursday: 11 a.m.–10 p.m.
Friday–Sunday: 11 a.m.–6 p.m.


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Wawrinka overcomes Federer in Monte Carlo Masters final
Stanislas Wawrinka won the Monte Carlo Masters for the first time by rallying from a set down to defeat Roger Federer in an all-Swiss title match.VIEW MORE »
Stanislas Wawrinka won the Monte Carlo Masters for the first time by rallying from a set down to defeat Roger Federer in an all-Swiss title match.VIEW MORE »
Earliest ouster for Nadal at Monte Carlo in over a decade.VIEW MORE »
Tennis player Donald Young gets a warning for yelling 'son of a biscuit' at Sarasota Open.VIEW MORE »
Roger Federer is prepared to skip tournaments — including possibly the French Open — to be with his wife when she gives birth again.VIEW MORE »
MONACO (AP) Novak Djokovic began his Monte Carlo Masters title defense with a quick 6-1, 6-0 win against Albert Montanes in the second round on Tuesday, maintaining his perfect record against the Spaniard.VIEW MORE »
Caroline Wozniacki dyes hair pink, caddies for Rory McIlroy.VIEW MORE »
GENEVA -- Roger Federer won the decisive singles match on Sunday for Switzerland which clinched a 3-2 win over Kazakhstan in the Davis Cup to reach its first semifinal in 11 years.VIEW MORE »
The world's No. 2-ranked player dominates from the start and beats Nadal 6-3, 6-3 Sunday in the final of the Sony Open.VIEW MORE »
Her seventh championship in Key Biscayne, Fla., breaks a tie with Andre Agassi for the most titles at the Sony Open.
Novak Djokovic advanced to the Sony Open final when Kei Nishikori withdrew less than two hours before Friday's semifinal because of a groin injury.VIEW MORE »


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Small Tournament Chess Bag - Black
Our Price: $12.95
Item #: BAG05BK
Manufacturer: The Chess Store
Mfg ID: BAG05BK
This is our most affordable chess tournament carrying bag. Inside you'll find a zippered compartment for chess pieces, loops to restrain a rollup chess board, and a padded pocket for holding a chess clock. This bag is primarily intended for our single weighted club size plastic chess sets with a 3 3/4" king. Rollup chess boards up to 20" square will fit but you will find it a little tight (not a lot of extra room like our large model). Chess bag measures 20 1/2" x 5 1/2" x 2 1/2".
Volume Discount Schedule - Price Each:
The Chess Store


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These 20 guys are only getting to the screen at 10 fps, and im wondering why… its not the vertex count because if i use a lod i get the exact same fps.
The thing is each guy is 9 draw primitives, armour and body and weapons, and I think that might be why its going slow.
How can I get the guys to the screen without overloading the draw primitives calls?
If I just render the body and head by itself I get a much better frame rate, so how do I draw clothes and armour without slowing down?


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From pregnancy to motherhood, every mom has questions or could use some support. Join the conversation to learn from or help other moms just like you.
Join the
Share Your
Similac® StrongMoms®
Join now to get nutritional guidance and up to $329* in benefits
What are the benefits of membership?
Now that my second little boy is here, I find myself feeling somewhat guilty that I'm not finding the time to do everything with him that I did with my firstborn. I realize, however, that I have to realistic and know that I can't be perfect with a 3 year old and a newborn at home. How do you balance life with more than one child and make sure they each get individual attention? --Julie, StrongMoms Facilitator
As moms, we have to let go of the guilt. It is hard for sure, but not beneficial to anyone. Why beat yourself up? Just do your best and realize that your best IS GOOD ENOUGH. As a new mother I struggled with this as well, but the more children I had, the more I realized that some days I could be supermom...other days it was more of a TV day. I do a good job but if I held myself to some "TV standard" or some "Pinterest" standard then I would be miserable. Enjoy your children....but don't feel guilty when you enjoy some alone time as well.
Oh my gosh Julie, you have quite an assignment! I don't think that there is a perfect way to be a parent, and I think that by stepping back and owning that some relief can be found. I also think it's important to realize that your kids are individuals and what worked or what was one way for one child will not be a carbon copy for the 2nd or even 3rd. These variations allow your children to develop into their own being and have their own unique voyage in life. It helps them have their own version of what childhood is and was, and this is so important. I think that your awareness of the differences will keep things so that they are not "unequal", but just different....and different is good. :)
PediNurseJulie1, don't be too guilty as that was the nature of life that we can never be perfect. Although I haven't tried that yet but soon I know I can try that. But every individual is a unique individual so you can never do the same thing you did with the 1st one just be happy at least you have tried your very best to make them a good person. Congrats I know your such a nice mother.
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Offhand Designs Zhivago Weekender Isabelle
Luxurious fabrics highlight the old-world charm of a roomy framed satchel with a plethora of pockets and pouches that offer plenty of organization and while a removable shoulder strap lends carrying versatility.
The Zhivago features 20" comfortable double strap handles that stay on your shoulder. The doctor's frame provides a sleek, secure closure so that nothing falls out but also stands wide open on its own so you can easily see everything inside.
Details: - 10.5"H x 18"W x 8"D - 6 interior pouches and one zippered pocket - 2 outside pockets - 16" doctor's frame - Magnetic flap closure
We currently have 1 bag in stock and available — we first started selling this in November 2012.


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105 N Statesville Rd Ste J, Huntersville, NC | Directions 2807835.409644 -80.852936
Great Family Atmosphere – Loooooved This Place!
Yes it might seem like just your ordinary Seafood joint but this place has something for my entire family.
Blackened Salmon Salad, Pasta, Chicken Parmesan, popcorn shrimp...etc. And I can't say enough about the staff! Lovely people!
All I can say is try it out & you won't be disappointed.
PS. Try their famous iced tea!
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300 Sixth Ave Pittsburgh PA 15222 - 412-421-0350
We have an extensive collection of floral arrangements to match every budget range. Our fresh flowers are delivered at the peak of freshness. You'll find many of our most popular arrangements here.
All images on this website are copyrighted material. All rights are reserved.
Copyrighted images herein are used with permission by Oliver Flower Shop.
All other trademarks and copyrights are the property of their respective owners.


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Duncan Aviation Announces Team Member Transfers to Duncan Aviation-Provo
Duncan Aviation-Provo will open in August and has an agreement with Million Air-Provo to lease hangar space from Million Air at the Provo Municipal Airport.
LINCOLN, NEB. — Duncan Aviation has announced that several team members have been selected for its Duncan Aviation-Provo, Utah, team.
Duncan Aviation-Provo will open in August and has an agreement with Million Air-Provo to lease hangar space from Million Air at the Provo Municipal Airport. The leased hangar will give Duncan Aviation 15,000 feet of space, a hangar footprint that will allow the equivalent of four Learjets or one Challenger and two Lears at a time.
When Duncan Aviation-Provo opens its doors, it will have service center authorizations from both Bombardier and Embraer. The facility will be a Bombardier Authorized Service Facility (ASF) for Learjet and Challenger aircraft as well as an Aircraft On Ground (AOG) Line Maintenance Facility (LMF) for Global aircraft.
As an Embraer Authorized Service Center, Duncan Aviation-Provo will provide support for the Embraer Legacy 600, Phenom 100 and Phenom 300 aircraft.
The Duncan Aviation team, which will consist of about 25 technicians experienced in Bombardier and Embraer aircraft, will provide full airframe services including major and minor hourly and calendar inspections as well as pre-purchase evaluations. Duncan Aviation-Provo will also offer line-level engine, avionics and interior support.
"In order to ensure that business processes and practices are consistent at all of Duncan Aviation's facilities and that customers have an experience at Duncan Aviation-Provo that is similar to the experience customers have when they visit Lincoln or Battle Creek, many of the Duncan Aviation-Provo team members will transfer from Nebraska or Michigan to Utah," says Bill Prochazka, Executive VP and General Manager of Duncan Aviation-Battle Creek.
The transfers that have already been announced include the following:
Bill Prochazka, Executive VP and General Manager. Bill currently holds the same title at Duncan Aviation-Battle Creek and has more than 30 years of experience in aviation, including various positions at Gates Learjet and Cessna Aircraft Company in Wichita. In Provo, his responsibilities will include general oversight of day-to-day operations and repair station requirements.
Mike Griffiths, Production Team Leader. Mike is a native of Wyoming who joined the U.S. Navy after graduating from high school. Upon discharge, he earned his A&P License and joined the Duncan Aviation team in 1983. He began his Duncan Aviation career in the parts department and soon advanced to the airframe shop, working as a mechanic, lead man and team leader. In 1994, Mike left Duncan Aviation to pursue other interests, but returned to the company's airframe shop in 2005. Mike has been FlightSafety trained on the Lear 25, 35, 55, 60, Westwind 1124/1224A, and Astra 1125/1125SPX.
Matt Cooper, Second Shift Supervisor. Matt is currently a Lead Mechanic on our Bombardier team in Battle Creek. He came to Duncan Aviation nearly six years ago from Bombardier Aviation Services in Indianapolis and has 11 years in the industry, with virtually all of that time focused on Lear and Challenger aircraft. Matt holds an associate's degree in aviation technology, is an A&P and has an extensive list of formal training on many of the airframes we will specialize in at Provo.
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Press Release
Duncan Aviation-Provo Named Bombardier Authorized Service Center
Duncan Aviation-Provo joins Duncan Aviation's full-service facilities in Lincoln, Neb., and Battle Creek, Mich., as a Bombardier Authorized Service Center.
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Alan Huggett Named Duncan Aviation Northwest Regional Manager
Currently a Service Sales Representative with Duncan in Michigan, Huggett will relocate to Duncan Aviation's new Utah location in August.
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Duncan Aviation Announces New Service Sales Representatives
Brad Homeyer is now serving as Airframe Service Sales Representative for Duncan Aviation-Provo and Ryan Huss is a new Airframe Service Sales Representative for Duncan Aviation-Lincoln.
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Duncan Aviation Announces New Service Sales Representatives
LINCOLN, NEB. — Duncan Aviation is pleased to announce new Airframe Service Sales responsiblities for its Lincoln, Nebraska, and Provo, Utah, locations. Brad Homeyer is now serving as Airframe...


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Skynyrd ~ Pronounced
August 13, 1973 - Lynyrd Skynyrd: (Pronounced 'Lĕh-'nérd 'Skin-'nérd) is released.
Leave a comment (14 Responses)
tchr4Christ // October 26, 2013 4:40:36 AM UTC
@celticwarrior: Yes! My husband and I saw Skynyrd in Oklahoma City at the Zoo Amphitheater in 1992, and we held a large (5' X 7') rebel flag through some of the concert. At one point, whoever was working the lights shined a spotlight on our flag (we were standing behind it to hold it up, which is why we only held it through SOME of the concert since we couldn't see the band through the flag). It is a very historic flag that many men died supporting, including some of my family!
tchr4Christ // October 26, 2013 4:26:33 AM UTC
@Mark Ray: The new Lynyrd Skynyrd is not trying to "touch" the level of music. They are simply continuing a tradition and legacy of the original band. It is a wonderful tribute to Ronnie, Steve and Cassie Gains and Dean Kilpatrick that they are making excellent Southern Rock music in their name. OF COURSE THEY DON'T SOUND EXACTLY THE SAME.....they are NOT exactly the same people! However, I am grateful that now I am able to listen to a sound as close to the original as can be than not hear anything like it again. I will always cherish my albums with Ronnie, Steve, Cassie, and Dean (occasionally as he was the producer and only played with the band at times), but I LOVE my CDs by this band starring a brother! If you don't like it, go away. If you do like it, quit complaining!!!!
MUDSLUNG // October 02, 2012 4:37:32 PM UTC
@Mark Ray:
MUDSLUNG // October 02, 2012 4:35:47 PM UTC
Been a Skynyrd fan ALL my life...(49Yrs)!
When people ask me "what kinda music do u listen to"? I ALWAYS say: Lynyrd Skynyrd... Why? What else is there.
Life's Twisted... I hear Ya Brother.
Thank you Lynyrd Skynyrd for all these years ( I LIVE BY SIMPLE MAN )!!!
The ONLY thing I {CARE} to remember about 2012 is that Skynyrd came out with, Last of a dyin' breed.
redtail57 // September 14, 2012 12:28:39 AM UTC
@Mark Ray: If you are banned brother then they can ban me too.
redtail57 // September 14, 2012 12:16:55 AM UTC
I have followed Ronnie all the way. I can tolerate you but you are not Lynyrd Skynyrd. Get Ed and Artimus back. And by the way-Fly OUR FLAG X we aint yankees.
celticwarrior // September 05, 2012 2:22:02 AM UTC
Ronnie van zant always displayed the CONFEDERATE FLAG at every concert. You people displayed the yankee rag in the cnn interview. are you men of the CONFEDRACY ? are you pussies?
celticwarrior // September 04, 2012 2:17:58 AM UTC
any of you have the courage to uphold the CONFEDERATE FLAG?
celticwarrior // September 04, 2012 2:10:52 AM UTC
I saw you on cnn today. you were displaying the yankee flag. Why? Ronnie and Skynyrd have always displayed the CONFEDERATE FLAg. Where was our Confederate flag? Are you people giving into the yankee political correctness which is what occurred in the redestruction era?
you have one choice; either display the COFEDERATE FLAG or go bend over. what do you say?
Mark Ray // August 31, 2012 11:34:03 AM UTC
New Skynyrd cant touch this level of music.Its a shame.I'll probably be banned for expressing my opinion.


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Thunderous celebration at Mac High
Jun 9, 2012 | 10 Comments
By Starla Pointer
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Mac High has been holding graduations outdoors (weather permitting) since at least '65 (mine). The '75 graduation was also held @ Linfield.
The Linfield event was the site of possibly the first attempt at streaking the graduation -- two seniors, wearing only boots and helmets, attempted to ride motorcycles between the the seated graduates, but the lead bike failed to negotiate the broad jump lane and flipped over. The trailing bike immediately turned around and 'got out of Dodge'. The crashed rider finally started his bike after many, many attempts. He was last seen laying the bike down near the baseball field and running down S. Davis. Stupid human tricks -- comedy in it's purest form.
It's truly a shame that the age of video in every hand wasn't available, because any video of this would have set records on You Tube.
Thanks for providing a more complete history of outdoor generations. I know there's been a few inside here and there -- I remember photographing one in the '80s so photographer Tom Ballard could relax and watch one of his kids graduate. It was hot, stuffy and super-crowded, even back then.
If you go to numerous graduations around Yamhill County, as reporter Paul Daquilante and I do, you'll know that almost all are held outside these days. Amity continued holding theirs in the gym until quite recently, but now it's held in the fresh air as well.
My own high school graduation was June 4, 1978, in the Reedsport High School gym -- 100 Braves heading out to conquer the world. Linfield was the first place I experienced an outdoor graduation.
The indoctrination of our schools, already happend. Either told lies, or half the story, or even just plain wrong answers. purposely to dumb us down...
Any reason they put extra fluoride in the water system at the school?
Added fluoride is a toxic poison often loaded with arsenic, mercury, and other toxins
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