text:
So sorry I haven't replied sooner.
I'm all over the place, lately!
WTWU and tsol
My Ws seems to FINALLY be coming around and being remorseful, but like you tsol, I'm feeling like it's "too little, too late" and I'm actually feeling like I'm not sure I can live with this...
I've been struggling with the fact that infidelity was always considered to be a dealbreaker for me, but in the interest of my children, I would have to make it a game changer... I'm not sure if I can...
I feel a strange sense of peace in knowing that, but I'm still scared of what to do next...
On Monday's MC session, WS admitted that over the past three years, many of the (3 to 4) nights out a week with "colleagues" from work (some single and some married), they would goto bars, call women over, buy them drinks, and flirt with them... he of course did it, too...
It sickens me...
Who is this man I married???
What kind of man does this???
he swears it was innocent... nothing but drinks and flirtatious company... I don;t buy it.
He also told me this past week that three years ago, when things were tense between us he saw a divorce lawyer..
I'm so tired...
So in MC in the spring, wbf talked about how he picked his family first because they would be there even if we broke up. This was when things were super bad between us. I resented his family because he would pick them over me. Turns out he just does whatever his mom says (he still lives at home while I live in a dorm so I know freedom and independence more than him) because he just wants her to leave him alone but alot of times that ends up being at my expense.
My family invited him to spend TG with them (its a 4 hour drive each way and pretty much has to be an overnight trip) but we celebrate it on Friday. Wbfs family celebrates on Thursday so since he got Friday off I thought things would work out perfectly. Apparently not..
He decided he wanted to see what his other part of his family was doing because he doesn't see them as often. The fam he sees Thursday lives really close and the other fam lives up to an hour away. My dads fam lives 4 hours away (we actually all gather at my grandma's house but everyone travels to get there. She has enough room to house all of us) and my moms fam lives in another country. Now you know the distances.
So the dilemma became him picking his family over after I thought we made plans. See we were going to eat with his fam thursday and drive the 5+ hours directly to my Uncle's on Friday where we actually eat turkey and stuff. So then wbf informed me would "probably still be going" but wanted to "check with his family". Well this is a line he used to use to take the blame off him when he didn't want to do something in the past. He did it one time this summer after we were in full R and it pisses me off anytime he's done that. So this set me off. I went off on this super long rant in text-form since he's at work about how he put me and my family second to family that he just chooses not to visit outside of holidays because an hour drive just "isnt convenient" and I got snarky and I was just overall SO upset.
Later I finally calm down enough to ask the main question: where does my family and I stand compared to his family? I wasn't asking him to choose between us but if we were to live together in the future, we would have to split holidays and he didn't seem open to alternating and that worried me that he wasn't open to compromise. I see my family max 3 times a year because it's a 4 hour drive each way for most of them (5.5 for my uncle who hosts the dinner and several states over for the aunt/uncle I see the least) and he can make a drive more easily than I could- the trip would almost have to be an overnight trip to warrant 8 hours total of driving.. Meaning not only would I have to take time out but I'd have to impose on my busy family. Wbf doesn't have that same situation so I felt really mad and hurt.
We got to talking about what to do and I'm 99% sure he is coming but I feel all of this didn't need to happen if he had been open about his plans for asking Friday off work to begin with. He made me believe he was asking off so he could come with me to visit my family. Today he told me otherwise so that shocked me the most. That is the only miscommunication we had recently and it is still a little frustrating that he will get back to me tomorrow with his final answer (he's a firefighter so he's at work until 6am) because I don't see why he would tell me he wants to go with me and then now he wants to find out about his dad's side that lives an hour out. I at one point even told him how could we ever work out holidays if he wasn't willing to compromise and alternate? I am open to it but I really took it all as he was going to come if he got Friday off.. Maybe I sometimes still am hearing what I want to. I don't know.
But I spent all day being mad and sad and frustrated and anything but happy. We are okay now but I told him earlier not to bother coming if he was just doing to resent me and my family for missing his. I spoke my mind and I don't regret it. I am outspoken. He knows it and I try to keep it under wraps because I really can get carried away.
So I'm back to working on myself and focusing on how I react to situations realistically compared to how I ideally should react. I am going to find another IC since mine left the clinic over the summer. I need to work on keeping my reactions in check and also how to deal with my dad who has frustrated me beyond belief.
I think my biggest thing is wbf and I need to talk about how we miscommunicated and what we can do to prevent it in the future. I hated fighting but I think it shows that I care about wanting to spend holidays with those I love- family and wbf. I'd be okay with being with his family but I need to see he's okay with compromising and being with mine. He likes mine but he's met them all once. He felt like he knew them for a long time after his first meeting, he told me. I am close with his family and I know how close their whole family is. I love it and am envious of how much familial support they have. But on the flip side, I need to see he is open to sharing families for future holidays. How the heck can we have a future if we can't compromise on something like this?
forgiven and in R :)
"To err is human.
To forgive,
Broken, that would upset me. A LOT. A ton. IN fact I think that admission alone would upset me more than my husband's ONS - at least that was one drunken royal fuck-up - the boys' nights sound like something that happened over and over.
Lala, after 8 years of marriage working out where/when to spend family holidays is still a huge source of stress for me. I am dreading telling my mother that we're not going to switch around our Christmas plans to accomodate my sister's work schedule - she can only get together on Christmas Eve, but my nephew on my husband's side is going to be with his dad on Christmas and we always do Christmas Eve with DH's family, Christmas with mine . . . mom asked me if we could switch and DH doesn't want to, and I see why. It's like juggling with fire, trying to keep everyone happy. It's so stressful. So just know you're not alone!
We're still doing actually really well. The baby issue is still at the forefront of my mind but I'm pretty sure there's nothing I can really do about it right now.
(((Broken))) I totally get that sentiment, I've been on a freaking rollercoaster lately, a very scary one too (more on that later... and it's going to be long, very long - sorry in advance... I have nowhere else to vent this shit)
I'm feeling like it's "too little, too late" and I'm actually feeling like I'm not sure I can live with this...
I've felt the same although it's more like too much... then too little IYKWIM My WH does 95% of the right things but when he doesn't feel he's being "rewarded" for that (in the way HE wants - read as sex! - I do thank him when he gets it right and acknowledge it) he sulks and it all but stops... leaving me feeling like I am just not worth the sustained effort.
WS admitted that over the past three years, many of the (3 to 4) nights out a week with "colleagues" from work (some single and some married), they would goto bars, call women over, buy them drinks, and flirt with them... he of course did it, too...
Oh, Broken♥ mine's admitted to having done that too... and doesn't it hurt? He seemed to think since it was "just flirting" it was OK, no harm, no foul... just some "good clean fun" It's taken him a very long time to realise that it's NOT "good" it's not "clean" and it's far from "fun" for me to know this is how he behaved whenever he was out of my sight
he swears it was innocent... nothing but drinks and flirtatious company... I don;t buy it.
I asked my WH if he thought it was sooo ionnocent why was it he never shared the photos of him with his arms around other women? If he thought it was alll soooo innnocent why didn't I even know these "friends" exisited (here was I feeling sorry for him when he went away for work because he was so lonely all the time... fuck me eh?)
It's just fucking macho, male bullshit! Fucking little boys! All of them! It's nothing more than a pissing contest! When do they grow the fuck up and be MEN?
(as you can see I am really angry atm!)
I'm so tired...
Oh God, I've never know what it was to be truly tired before the past 23 mths!
where does my family and I stand compared to his family?
Poopylala♥ I'm "lucky" in that my WH family is completely out of the picture now. When his mother and the fucktard lived with us it obviously wasn't an issue (The fucktard is our word for the sorry excuse for a human being that calls himself his father, my former FIL - because I will NEVER refer to him as my FIL again!) The fucktard has moved in with his bitch faced whore (our word for his GF) MIL has passed and all the other in laws live interstate, over 12 hours drive away... gotta love this 'wide brown land' of mine LOL that's just one state over!)
I guess that's one bright side to all this, I will never have to 'split' my time between families for the holidays LOL (God, it feels good to laugh) His family had always been relatively nomadic whereas mine has lived in the one 25mile radius for life (he attended over 9 schools in his time because of all their moving around... I went to 2, junior and senior)and I point blank refused to ever be away from my family for Christmas... his parents chose not to be here some years, that was their problem, I wasn't about to go chasing them (not when it meant a 12 hour drive... or that plus an overnight trip on a damn ferry, depending on which state they were in)
WTWU, how are things? I can understand your feelings of trauma. I wish your WH could too.
Jana♥ I think he has a greater understanding of it after what went down this past weekend... it was not pretty and... gosh, I don't even know where to begin.
This week has been hard on me because this was the week 2 yrs ago that it all started. This was the time we were away with friends and I first saw photos of him with other women, cuddling, dancing, blind fucking drink with them. This was the time I first saw his FB messages to these women... I suppose it really was my 1st DDay in a way (I am one BS that is greatly affected by dates and I have asked him to be aware of these dates and act accordingly... more compassionate, more patient, more understanding is needed during these times) I had mentioned the dates were approaching and gave him a heads up... but he chose not to be proactive... it all went downhill from there.
Maybe one day I'll have the courage to put it all here... I did type it all out but then deleted it... for now it's all still too raw... it was ugly, I was ugly, I am humiliated by my behaviour... but he has now seen the depths of my despair.
It was so bad he took Monday off work to be with me and talk, repair and hold me while I cried... maybe, just maybe he sees what he has done to me, what his betrayal has done to me... maybe now he'll be the WH I deserve, the one I've been waiting for.
Time will tell.
I still fucking hate this shit!
It hasn't helped that while he has agreed to a poly he is sticking firmly to the line that since they are only 98% accurate if he 'fails' any of the questions he will of course be in that 2% margin for error... what's the point of taking a poly if that is going to be his attitude to it? If he fails the all important question of was this the first and only time he's ever cheated on me... I am back where I was in the beginning, still left with that doubt. I know I will never trust him 100% ever again but I was willing to settle for that 98% that a 'passed' poly result would give me... now I can't even have that.
"Unhappy marriages don't cause infidelity. Being unfaithful causes infidelity."
Anyways, I'll make it short but we had TG dinner Thursday with his family and I helped his mom and aunt in the kitchen. Friday we headed out at 5am to my uncle's ranch which is about 5.5 hours away and the trip up was fun because we went there for 4th of July and we drove at night so we were amazed at how different everything looked during the day! But we had so much fun eating and we shoot guns after we eat and wbf really likes that But what's really awesome is he seems to really fit in with my family because my cousins and wbf and I all played a huge game of tag and the older guy cousins and wbf were kind of picking only each other and I was so happy they accepted him. He met them for the first time at 4th of July so this was his second time seeing them and yet they were very open to him.
We stayed the night at my Grandma's house and my Grandma saw how tired he was and made the couch for him and my aunt cleared everyone out so he could sleep
Everyone was so fascinated that wbf is a firefighter and they were all so good at keeping wbf included in the conversation.
After working with IC to identify anxiety, I realized I felt anxious when I was around my family, mostly my Grandma, probably because I felt some pressure to succeed as my family is really smart and I don't feel as smart. But with wbf there, I felt no anxiety!
Today I had an appointment with the psychiatrist about my AD for anxiety and I wrote down that my appointment was at 3 but it was at 230!! Luckily the nurse did not charge me a no-show fee because she said she believed that I thought it was at 3 since I showed up for a 3pm appt time. I have NEVER forgotten an appointment I felt so awful and it made me question my memory and my mental state but I think I was overthinking that..
Anyways it's the last week of school for me and then I have finals and then winter break. I should be getting a call soon about working at the store I applied to for the winter. I basically had it in the bag since a former manager from my old job is a manager there and referred me. I just need it to all be finalized formally. I realize I'm lucky to have connection in this kind of economy! I hope you all are doing okay job-wise?
And one more thing- the other night, wbf was going to go out with a friend and he invited a few more friends. One of the friends who has a fiancee said he was going to bring hot asian girls who drink beer which set me off not because I was worried about wbf but because I was worried that this guy's fiancee didn't know and I totally lost it and was bawling and miserable over the potential issues but I was glad wbf showed me the text message so I knew what was going on. I kept trying to make it clear I was not upset about him going I was upset about his friend doing something that could hurt his fiancee. Wbf didnt want to get involved but it took me back to when he cheated with a girl from his EMT class and it made me wonder how many of his fire school friends in that class knew when I met them. So wbf texted the friend back saying he thought it was a guys night and his friend replied "why are you complaining about hot asian girls?" and the asian part doesnt trigger me anymore (OW#1 was asian) but it made me so angry that there are guys out there that would have NO problem at all inviting girls to drink despite being in a relationship/engaged/married... So wbf gave me his phone to reply and I said something to the effect of "Hi this is wbf's gf, I am the reason he's asking about it being a guys night. I'm not psycho or some crazy insecure gf but I wanted to know why guys who are off the market are going to drink with hot asian girls?" and we talked some and basically this girl was a friend of his from high school and he wanted an excuse to bring her without sounding lame and his fiancee was actually their designated driver so I felt better instantly. Wbf told me some of what they talked about at the bar and it all sat well with my gut. It just really surprised me how much I was affected by the thought of another woman getting hurt by poor boundaries and potential future A's...
That's great Poopylala, so happy you both had a great time (sounds like a blast actually LOL)
How did your finals go?
I totally understand your frustration with the boys night out including hot Asian girls (I'd have freaked at that... the OW where all Asian in my case... and he'd never really found then attractive, WH is into long legs and large breasts which you don't typically find on Asain women... not naturally anyway LOL) I am glad you sorted it all out with his friend.
I had a long, long post typed out but decided to put it in my journal instead... if you want to read it ( warning... it is long LOL) I'm setting it so as it can be read for the next few days. I don't want to put it all in here as I am now sure my WH knows my sign in name but as he's not yet a member, just a lurker, he can't access my journal.
**edited 'cos it's early morning here and my brain has not engaged LOL**
[This message edited by Want To Wake Up at 12:26 PM, December 12th (Monday)]
I had my first day of finals today- calculus and biochem. I couldn't fall asleep last night due to nerves I guess and then someone decided to prank everyone by pulling the fire alarm at 345am!!! Needless to say I was very exhausted all day and I am going to stop studying for my finals that I have tomorrow because I need sleep badly. I have 2 tomorrow and then one more on Thursday. I feel okay about the rest and thank you for asking
I do plan to read your journal, I just desperately need sleep
I also wanted to add that I found "self-talk" to be helpful. I have had many dreams these last few nights where I'm not being heard or I'm incapable of saying what I need to or want to. After the fire alarm, I tried going to sleep and told myself "I do have a voice, I will be heard!" and in my dream, my dad tried to railroad my life yet again and I told him he was interrupting the performance I was in (I was doing something on stage) and he got pissed and I didn't care. SO self-talk will be implemented more often I'm using it to stop thinking any nagging little thoughts about OW#2 I have had and so far it seems to be working. Have any of y'all tried self-talk? Did it work for you?
I totally understand your feelings! You want a REAL marriage, not a facade just for sex. I would give verbal appreciation when wbf would do something consistently. Sex is not a reward! I think your gut knows he is not being 100% authentic and I would call him out on it. Sometimes when I read about incidents where the WS gets upset about not getting sex, I want to reply, "Well your BS is upset about not having an honest, faithful S!!!"
Is there any way you can tell him that you need the mental safety before you could consider sex? Don't give in just because it seems the easier path- do what you feel is right for you!
Ah, Poopylala♥, I have said this very thing until I am blue in the face... he does not agree. He still thinks I can have sex but I am punishing him by withholding sex. He wants me to "fake it 'til I make it"... but he is unwilling to do the same(doesn't help that the book 'Not Just Friends' suggests the same Grrrr... but apparently that suggestion is only for me, not him. I should "fake it" and just force myself to have sex with him but he will not "fake it" and force himself to give me words of comfort IYKWIM... and this is fair how?)
He actually told me yesterday that I will get nothing in the way of words of comfort etc. until I resume having sex! He considers sex as the commencement of R. Well, I've btdt on DDay... and I got shat on. I took that leap of faith, apparently I took it alone so yes, now I am asking him to take that leap. We had HB after DDay and it only ceased when I discovered ongoing lies about his activities while he was again overseas for work (no sex - that I know of - but he was still drinking at bars, partying and lying about where he was, what he was doing and who he was with)
I have asked that he give me those words of comfort, open up to me emotionally and see where that leads us. To TRY... He refuses... why? (and this almost made me laugh) HE'S afraid that if HE opens himself up emotionally HE'LL get hurt!
Am I an idiot? Or is he asking me to, in effect, prostitute myslef to get what I crave? (those comforting words)
I cannot understand why, if he truly feels all the things he says he does (remorse, sorrow, etc) and he wants to help me heal from this pain that he cannot verbalise them when I need them. He's told me I should "just take it as a given" that is what he feels, he shouldn't have to say it.
WTF am I missing here? Am I to be a mindreader?
We are at an impasse. I am not willing to open myself physically to him until my emotional needs are met in this way and he is not willing to open himself up emotionally until he gets sex. Keep in mind that I have already done that, I have every reason to 'gun shy' while he has no reason to doubt me. The bottom line, he doesn't trust me. He doen't trust me to R with him and he's not going to "risk" being hurt... he wants me to risk it (AGAIN) but he won't!
I am once again feeling that all I am to him is a poke in a hole. I don't understand how he can hear me crying in bed next to him, reach out and hold me and offer me... silence. (that's when I get anything at all, it's still not unusual for my tears to be ignored because HE can't cope with it) That silence is deafening. That silence is chipping away at my very soul and it's certainly chipping away the last vestiges of love I feel for him. I cannot understand HOW he can not want to comfort and console me with words for pain that he is the cause of. It leaves me feeling he is very sorry... sorry he got caught, not sorry for the pain he's caused.
I have to try to hold it all together over Christmas as my Mother is coming to stay (Ugh!)
I realize in the grand scheme of situations people are in on this site, it pales to compare to what some/most of you are going through. But the hurt is still huge.
I believe her, 100% as to where she stopped it.
She was out drinking and dancing the last night of the conference. A guy was dancing up on her all night. She tried to bring the dancing back to the group, so he wasn't all over her. Last call was 3am and she had quite a bit to drink at this point.
They all went back to the hotel, she got off on her floor, and he followed her off the elevator. She knew he wasn't on her floor. She didn't invite him. She didn't stop him. They get to the door, again, she doesn't tell him to leave.
He lays on the bed, clothed, lights on. She tells him to take his shoes off (invitation to stay). She curls up in the bed next to him. She has told me at this point, she wants someone to hold her. She was feeling alone. She realizes wanting another man to hold her is across the line...
She gets up and says she is going to get ready for bed. She heads to the bathroom to change. Comes out, he is still there. She turns the light off and climbs into bed with him.
I've asked what she was thinking at this point. Obligation (to him at this point, leading him on), I'm a cheat...I will always be a cheat now...might as well go with it - were some of her words.
The kissed, caressed, he tried to take it further a few times. She stopped him. He knew she was married. She even told him again, out loud while it was happening. She should have been telling herself (her words).
I still deal w/ the mind movies of this strapping young man with his hands all over my wife. Caressed seems like a good word for "feeling eachother up and down." I struggle w/ the vagueness of the word and I am going to ask her to describe it, so I can put it to bed.
She has been very open since admitting the act. I forced her into a confession after uncovering a few pieces of info that lead me to believe it happened.
Right now I feel we're on a decent path to R. I am just looking for some serious commitment from her.
I just needed to get my story out here to some people that may have gone through the same. I couldn't bring myself to read all 40+ pages, but I did share in much of the pain here.
Sounds as though your wife has some serious boundary issues at the very least. If this is only an issue when she drinks then IMO she needs to not drink at all except when with you. This is something my WH has given me, if at a work function his limit is two drinks and no more... I must say our country's drink driving laws help me in this, here you really can't have more than 2 drinks if you are going to drive. He also only ever over indulged his drinking when away for work and no driving was required... he no longer goes away for work... ever.
Hopefully you have the whole truth from her (I do not want to add to your pain but so many BS's here have found out that they did not have the whole truth when they thought they did... prepare yourself, just in case) even so this is still a serious violation of your marriage and needs to be dealt with as such.
Keep reading here, the healing library has some great (and very helpful) info for both BS's and WS's.
Your trust in your with has been broken and it is in her to restore that. It will take time (much longer than she thinks it will)
I've had a migraine this morining... my eyes still hurt so I can't post much more but will check back later, I just wanted you to know you have been heard.
[This message edited by Want To Wake Up at 7:22 PM, December 21st (Wednesday)]
We've talked at length about what happened that night. A part of me will always wonder if it really did end where she says it did. I do struggle with that a bit. But my wife came home from her work trip a different person. I saw a text message in her phone from someone I didn't know that said "i lef tmy jacket in your room" and "i'm sorry last night was all my fault..." (from him). which lead me to ask some serious questions. I had assumed the worst and prepared myself. When she wouldn't confess to something happening, I told her just that. I am going to proceed with assuming the worst...so if it's not the worst, I need to know. She came out with it and I could see a weight was lifted off of her. A week had gone by since the ONS (11/17) and the D (11/23). After the D, or admission on her part, I felt like I had my wife back. Also, she later confided in with a friend online, and I just recently saw a recap of that chat. We've been working hard on our relationship since, but we have a long way to go.
Yes, boundary issues have been a recent discussion between us and with me in IC. I am a pleaser, and have given her a long leash for years. I never expected it could lead to something like this, but I believe it, along with some of her insecurity issues, has.
She won't blame the alcohol. Which I applaud her for... when chatting with her friend who was pointing to the drinking as impacting her judgment, she said "the scary thing is, I think I would have done it sober." That was crushing to read. We later talked about that. I asked her if she really thinks she could have done this sober, and what would make he think that. She said the was cognizant the whole time. When he stepped off the elevator with her she felt like somebody was there for her. The chaos of the night was over and she had someone to comfort her. She walked though her door and she felt like she sobered up. She realized what was about to happen and felt like she was in too deep. She used the word "obligated" at this point...to him. Not me. Not her 1 year old son who is being watched by her mother in-law at this very moment, affording her and I to travel on business at the same time. Obligation to the OM.
I know what he wanted. He was close to getting it. She realizes how dangerous this was. He is a huge man, former college football player. If he wanted to take it further, he could of...this doesn't make him a good man. He is a horrible weak person for taking advantage of this opportunity. If he doesn't make that move off the elevator, my wife goes to bed alone that and is in my arms 16 hours later. I can't blame the shithead for trying. Single guy, 25 years old, giving attention to a beautiful woman, a new mom who desperately is seeking approval, validation. I am sure he is getting some attention back, I am sure. Feeling like he has a chance to fuck her...I also realize my wife is just as much to blame. I do however feel she was in a vulnerable spot, feeling alone, insecure and depressed. There are reasons she was in that state that have to do with our relationship, but she should have chosen to work on them with me. Not address them in this way... As they're making out she stops and asks him, and this kills me..."do you think I am pretty?" It's so sad...if you could see my wife. She is gorgeous. There is no question she is pretty. For her to need to ask that question is a reflection of where she was at that moment in time, and a direct reflection off issues she is having personal and we are having in our relationship.
We are both getting IC right now. I see MC in our future, but I am putting it on her as to when we start.
Again, thanks for listening SI. I am an open wound right now.
There are some similarities in your story and mine - my husband was also very drunk when the infidelity occurred, and like your wife, the act was not completed (not by any virtue on his part - rather because he was too drunk to function). Don't feel like you have to apologize for your pain. Sure our stories aren't as extreme as others on SI, but if you're stabbed three times and bleeding out on the carpet, it's hardly a comfort that someone else was stabbbed ten times or twenty. You still hurt, know what I mean?
I just wanted to caution you about something you said in your last post.
giving attention to a beautiful woman, a new mom who desperately is seeking approval, validation.
I know what it's like to be a new mom who desperately wants validation of her attractiveness. The different between your wife and me is that when my baby was nine months old, my husband got drunk and received oral sex from a prostitute. You bet that made me feel like shit about myself. I would imagine that however badly your wife as a new mom wanted that validation, I wanted it MORE. But that STILL didn't give me an excuse to seek it from a man I wasn't married to. KWIM? I don't mean to blast your wife, but I see you potentially going down a road of self-blame - maybe she cheated because YOU didn't make her feel pretty enough? Please don't do that, my friend. I may be way off base here, but that stuck out to me.
Sorry if I'm ranting a bit, I don't mean to do that. It just happens sometimes. But again, I am so sorry you're in this position. Please feel free to vent to us anytime. There's another member, numb&dumb, whose story is quite similar to yours as well. He has posted in this forum but usually posts in the Reconciliation forum.
((HUGS)) and best of luck to you.
I am sorry for the pain your husband has brought on you. We share in the fact that not only were we betrayed, but our children were as well. That piece hurts so much. She wasn't just choosing OM over me that night, but over our son as well.
Self blame is the road I went down right away. I appreciate you calling attention to that, as I am keeping my guard up from going back down that road.
I'm not trying to justify any of her actions, or blame myself. But more to understand what could have been factors in putting her in the place she was, to make that decision. A decision in the end that she is responsible for. But, if we don't get to working on the why, and i have to realize that I can be a factor in some of the Whys, then we can't address what got her there, and us here.
On the outside, things looked great. The truth is before these separate work trips, I had never felt more distanced from her. Painful, but true.
Again, thank you for your comments.
WH has been consistent over the holidays but with my Mother staying he pretty much has to be to prevent me breaking down (as my mother doesn't know) I am hoping this is a true change in him and not just an act to keep me on an even keel IYKWIM
Time (that dreaded four letter word!) will tell. He's off work until after the New Year so he'll have the oppotunity to show me what he's made off so to speak.
On the upside... I did get a lovely (and very thoughtful) Christmas gift from him, an extra gift that was a total surprise (so unlike him LOL I ususally have to buy my own gifts but this year I told him to put in the effort... and he did)
Still feeling very... guarded. We have been 'cuddling' in bed most nights... but (there's always a "but" LOL) he's been... 'pushing it' in a way. He's not just content to merely hold me his hands have been... 'roaming' IYKWIM
I do realise this is his way of giving me the gentle affection I have asked for but I don't think I am ready for it in the way he is giving it... just yet (and way TMI here... sorry in advance... feeling his erect penis pressing onto me isn't exactly what I want right now) Haven't broached the subject (what with Mum being here as it could end in an argument) but I will soon, as gently and calmly as I can. I want to get through to him that I do want our sex life to resume but it has to be when I am ready and not because I feel pressured IYKWIM I feel that would just be a recipe for disaster. I want to cooperate not capitulate.
Wish me luck for my 2nd antiversary tomorrow... I am hoping he will remember and acknowledge how hard this time is for me.
Happy New Year everybody, I hope everyone is doing well.
We had a good Christmas, some family drama with my parents that upset me, but at least it was nothing to do with the marriage. This month is the start of trade show season for Mr. G - I had a REALLY tough time with him being gone for trade shows last year, but this year I'm able to attend all three with him. YAY! And the fact that he is really excited that I am able to come with him, well, that makes it even better. Should be very busy but fun to get to work together.
I had asked WH to remember my trigger dates & act accordingly... when I did ask that a while ago he put dates in his phone... but not DDay WTF? You'd think he'd know THAT would be one of the biggest triggers for me. So the day came and went with no specific acknowlegdement from him... I let it go but did mention it the next day that I could have used his support and comfort... he apologised, he says he didn't even realise what day it had been
That's what he does, stuff up and then apologise. That's what he's done regarding forgetting our anniversaries and my birthday over the years, does the same thing over and over... and then apologises... leaves the apology sounding very hollow and insincere to me. I asked just what dates he'd put in his phone and he told me the 21st Dec (the day I found the condoms) and the 22nd Dec (NFI why that was memorable other that as the day after I found the condoms and he was still denying anthing had happened, I was just a "crazy, paranoid, delusion, jealous woman, incapable of trusting him and that was my problem not his" at that stage)
He's still very frustrated by our total lack of sex (he thinks he's alone in that, he doesn't believe I am feeling the frustration too) Hasn't helped that he reads another forum about all aspects of marriage and one topic he seems to frequent is anything about getting your wife to have sex with you... which he has been implementing and which under normal circumstances would probably do the trick (making me feel desirable, showing affecton and attention) but these are NOT normal circumstances. Although at times it feels a little like the 180 talked about here. He's all smiles and happy, does all the chores about the place with gusto, is cheerful and such... but no real conversations about any of this shitstorm. It's as if it never happened. Strange though, as he does offer those unsolicited apologies (half-arsed at times, generic, not specific but that's him to a "t") but he has expressed appreciation for my still being here... it's all very confusing and doesn't really give me a feeling of security IYKWIM
I guess I am left asking "why now?" Why does he now express all the things I have so longed to hear over the past 33yrs? Why is it that now he realises that the way to open a womans legs is through her emotions? Why wasn't I worth all that effort before? And I get one answer... he wants sex!
I still doubt the 'authenticness' of him... it still feels... faked... manipulative IYKWIM
I'll admit it... I am afraid (for want of a better word) of having sex with him, afraid of what I will feel, afraid that the mind movies will paralyse me, afraid of how I will react and more than that afraid of how he will react if I react badly IYKIWM
I have such difficulty talking this over with him as he views almost any conversation about any of this as my punishing him... it's hard to continue when you are up against that attitude. He gets frustrated and slightly defensive so I back off not wanting to start a world war... again. All he hears is "I don't want to have sex" not "I want to have sex but I am apprehensive about it and I need your help with that"
Maybe I should bit the bloody bullet and just fuck him... Lord knows it won't be "making love"... I don't even know now how to tell the difference anymore... I once thought whenever we had sex it was "making love"... but now I know he can "just fuck"... I don't want to "just fuck"... I don't want to spend the rest of my life as a fuck doll.
WH insists that he is real in his affections towards me... but I keep stumbling over the fact that it is after the fact... he feels all this only after he's fucked around on me. I guess I still feel as though I am merely the best option for his life and to keep it going the way it is (i.e. no D, no splitting assests, no selling the house, no complications with the kids that a D would bring, no mess)... and I don't like being an "option"
Don't mind me, I'm getting rambly now. It's been a tough week, our (23yr old)DS's GF has just broken up with him after more than 2 yrs... he thought she was "the one" and our DD (25yrs) was dumped by her BF back in July (she thought he was "the one" too, they'd talked marriage even to the point of where they would live) & is questioning what the hell is wrong with this family that we can't seem to make any relationship work... fuck I hate this! She used to aspire to having a marriage just like ours... that's down the toilet now! She's anti-marriage, anti-realtionships. Shit, even our 14yr old DD has recently been dumped by her BF of 2 weeks!(and she's asking the same question!)
We're a family of broken hearts atm... FFS maybe we should all go live on an island somewhere and... screw the world!
[This message edited by Want To Wake Up at 4:29 PM, January 12th (Thursday)]
As I've been reading through Not Just Friends as well as SI and some other resources, my eyes have been opening wider.
My WW was engaged in an online EA to some degree, long before the recent ONS, with a different party altogether. Someone she had "no interest in that way what so ever." But after reading their conversations, it's safe to say he was/is not a friend of the marriage. She confided the ONS to him, before me. It's part of how I found out about it, seeing a message to him that "work had caught up to her and she'd tell him the whole story soon..." I confronted her about the story, and I got it.
We've since pushed the reset button on this relationship she has with this guy. I have set up a boundary that I think she is starting to understand. I didn't make her go NC on him, as I want her to get to a comfortable place in this relationship on her own. I am okay with her having a guy friend that is a friend of the marriage. Not one who is going to just talk about his problems with his wife and joke how he'd like to make my wife his "sexratary." When I saw this gchat between the two of them (she turned over her passwords to me), I nearly lost it. She never acknowledged his advances, but she never told him to stop, or that she was uncomfortable with them. I need her to set him straight on her own.
Then I think back to the text message string between her and the OM. I was already suspicious on the way she was acting since returning from her trip, and the message in her phone from someone I never heard of read "I left my coat in your room. Can I come up and get it or can you bring it down?" was a big indicator that something happened, and it did. I'm past that...
But what's been bothering me of late is the conversation after wards. Some of the words she said the next morning. They joked back and forth as they sat through their final day of training. He even said "I'm pretty sure last night was all my fault. I think I blacked out at one point" I knew a group of them had gone out drinking to a club. So it could have been anything. But I really know now he was just trying to make excuses for the behavior of the night before. Again, this isn't about the ONS...just me wondering (which is futile, I understand that).
Did I nip something bigger in the bud here? Not that I am grateful it happened, by any means, but I feel like this was the start of something big, and I hope to have stopped it in its tracks.
Texts to the OM the next day in reply to him saying "I'll be in (your city) soon! We'll have to hang out! It's nice to know someone up there now!" and her replies "Thanks for everything. Awesome hanging out!"
Thanks for EVERYTHING? Thanks for stepping off that elevator...thanks for capitalizing on the opportunity while I was vulnerable. I'm not saying my wife didn't make the wrong decision here, she is a big girl and is owning up to her actions. But I think she is also covering a bit for something else... She won't cop to alcohol being a factor, when simply, I know it was. At first I thought she was just taking ownership, which was great, but I've come to realize that she has been self medicating w/ booze. She was out to 3am drinking and I know she wasn't eating anything, and alcohol wasn't a factor?
Wondering what could have happened down the road isn't really useful. But, I see him contacting her that he's in town and her heading down a more treacherous road. One that I don't think our marriage would have survived...
Sorry, this turned into a mind dump here...but a couple things came to mind as I went on.
I think my wife was on the start of a slippery slope. One that came to the forefront during some transitional anxiety from a period in her life that is all new to her(baby, new job, unfamiliar situations/opportunities)
She was self medicating w/ alcohol due to these anxieties and her past insecurities
She is afraid to confront the drinking problem to the point that she steers it away from being an excuse.
Time to ask her...
[This message edited by betrayednerd at 2:36 PM, January 9th (Monday)]
Not one who is going to just talk about his problems with his wife and joke how he'd like to make my wife his "sexratary."
Oh my God betrayednerd I would have flipped my everloving shit if I had read that. Oh my God!
Did you guys get a chance to talk? How'd that go?
Want to Wake Up - ((HUGS)) - the sex issue is so huge with you guys. Forgive me - I can't remember if you guys are in marriage counseling? I think you two would really benefit by getting a counselor's input into this issue. It sounds like a real stalemate in your reconcilliation at this point.
Well, I had a bit of an unpleasant experience on Sunday. Baby Green and I were at the grocery store, and I saw this tall girl in a blue baseball cap looking at me. It was the assbrain neighbor's wife.
Fortunately I was almost done with my grocery shopping so I figured I wouldn't have to run into her.
Except when I was getting some chicken broth, she walked right by me and gave me this weird tight smile. I said hi and she kept walking.
Then I was checking out and she got in the line right next to mine.
I can't understand why I feel like I hate her. I have no reason to dislike her and every reason to empathize with her situation. But really, I'd just prefer to never see her face again. At the same time, if she ever asked me any questions about anything that happened, I'd do everything in my power to help her.
One thing is clear though - after the way she looked at me, I have no doubt that her assbrain husband told her SOMETHING. Maybe it resembled the truth, maybe not. But he told her something. I'm sure whatever he told her was carefully crafted to make sure she never asks me what I know. Our other neighbor, Mr. Green's friend, used to be friends with Assbrain, but after getting to know him and how much of a jerk he is, he has pretty much cut him off (his wife and Assbrain's wife are still good friends). Nice neighbor told Mr. G that he had been lecturing Assbrain on how he needed to tell his wife what had happened, and Assbrain told him that he DID tell her and they "almost got divorced." I kind of doubted that, but I guess she knows some part of it.
The good part of this is that, even though it was a big trigger for me and I had all the usual physical responses - the adrenelaine in my system, heart beating faster, etc., I did NOT come home and start a huge fight with Mr. G like I used to. I just thought to myself that it is more fallout, it's unfortunate, but it's ok, I can deal with it. And everything was fine. I did tell him about it, and I got kind of annoyed when he said, "So she didn't even say hi to you? That was rude. She should at least be nice." Um, well, I don't think there's any SHOULD in this situation. No, I have no reason to dislike her, and she has no reason to dislike me (unless she's angry that I didn't tell her, which frankly is pretty legitimate). But really, what are we going to say to each other, you know? Unless she wants information from me, which I am happy to give to her, there's really no point for either of us to subject ourselves to pretending like everything is hunky-dory.
She never acknowledged his advances, but she never told him to stop, or that she was uncomfortable with them.
Ugh! This behaviour is so hard to contend with. My WH was much the same, his excuse is he never thought of this behaviour as 'wrong' or anything serious, they were "just being friendly" with each other. Fortunately reading "Not Just Friends" has enabled him to see that this is not appropriate behaviour for a married man and is the first step on that oh, so slippery slope. He's learned that there is a line between being "friendly" and indicating "availability" IYKWIM I am hoping he can stay on the right side if that line.
Not one who is going to just talk about his problems with his wife and joke how he'd like to make my wife his "sexratary."
Oh my God betrayednerd I would have flipped my everloving shit if I had read that. Oh my God!
For the record... I would have flipped too!
Want to Wake Up - ((HUGS)) - the sex issue is so huge with you guys. Forgive me - I can't remember if you guys are in marriage counseling? I think you two would really benefit by getting a counselor's input into this issue. It sounds like a real stalemate in your reconcilliation at this point.
Yes, the lack of sex is a very huge issue atm Jana♥ we are staring down the barrel of 2 yrs with NO sex at all
Stragnely I just read an old post in the "Sexual Difficulties While In A Relationship" thread as someone had posted in it recently that descibes how I feel to a "T"...
i'm really struggling, i feel like i'm dying somewhere inside. i can no longer see the value of sex outside of satisfying a basic, animal rutting need. i see men as weak, pathetic beasts humping like immature dogs who can't even control their bodily functions. it all disgusts me. i've never felt this way before in my life. i know it's not fair to generalize, but i can't help it. the romance is gone. i don't believe in "making love" anymore. it really doesn't matter what my WH says to me right now, it all sounds like a guy who'll say whatever he needs to get laid. the couple of times we've been sexual at all since Dday just made me feel more lonely. after all, i thought we "made love" when we conceived our DD. but he conceived another one eight months later with a girl he hardly knows, doesn't even really like anymore and was just f-ing out of...arg (not going to go down that vent).
i've never been anything like a man-hater or believed in stereotypes to the point of cynicism. many of my closest friends are men i've always considered to be thoughtful and interesting. i don't feel like myself anymore. i have no desire to be emotionally/physically intimate with anyone, ever. i feel like sex is just better left as an animal thing that doesn't mean much. look at all the problems caused by attaching emotions to it. between my shamed, taboo sexual upbringing and now the true vulnerability and betrayal in my married relationship - sex has caused me far more pain than joy. at least when i was young and experimenting and a bit promiscous, acting on animal impulse, i didn't let it get to me like this.
i just don't know who i am anymore. i question everything i ever thought was genuine in man's mind and heart, like behind it all is just that rutting dog instinct. i hate this feeling. i have no sense of romance associated with sexuality. my "wild side" and sexual openness are completely absent.
Almost to a "T" if you take out the part about the promiscuous youth LOL I was never promiscuous. I guess I am still struggling with the "making love" Vs "having sex" issue inside of me. I know this is MY issue to work on... but I am having difficulty in working out how to work on that IYKWIM How to change the thinking/feeling/belief of a lifetime?
I have never had sex with anyone I didn't also love (we were one and onlies) I don't know IF I am capable of having sex without loving the man I am with... I do know my WH CAN have sex with a woman and feel nothing at all for her... so how in the hell do I know what he feels anything for me? Is he just wanting his urges satisfied (is "just fucking" me) or does he really feel love (is "making love" to me) for me? I don't know how to tell the difference. I had once thought every time we had sex we were "making love"... now I have my doubts. I know it sounds stupid but for me "having sex" is always "making love" no matter what we do IYKWIM The two are intertwined and inseparable... to me... not so much to my WH.
I did get up the courage to talk to him about this and he has been very patient and understanding with me... but... it's still there, still a wedge between us, still preventing me from opening myself up to him in that way.
We are not in MC atm, the last one was a bust...she came off to the both of us as sounding as though she wanted ME to take some responsibility for his A! No way is THAT ever going to happen... or at the very least as though none of it was his "fault" IYKWIM Neither WH nor I were very impressed with her at all. We have been unable to find another who seems to have any real experience in dealing with the aftermath of infidelity from the perspective of the betrayed spouse, many seem to comcentrate on the WS's healing and the betrayed just has to "get over it". Most seem to want to "put it in the past" and not talk about it (can you say "rugsweeping"?) or blame it all on the marriage (i.e. it was my fault for "letting" it happen) We have an acuter lack of specialized therapists ex[perienced in this field in this country Grrrr!.. and none of it is covered by insurance either so the cost is fairly prohibitive as well.
I guess I feel like such a... disappointment. He is finally doing everything that I have asked of him and I still cannot seem to get past the sex... maybe this truly is a dealbreaker for me... or perhapsd I just need more time, more consistency of hin doing all the right things before I feel... secure once again and able to open myself up to him again.
One thing is clear though - after the way she looked at me, I have no doubt that her assbrain husband told her SOMETHING. Maybe it resembled the truth, maybe not.
Jana, not knowing 'who knows what' is a big thing for me. It leaves me feeling vulnerable all over again IYKWIM
The good part of this is that, even though it was a big trigger for me and I had all the usual physical responses - the adrenelaine in my system, heart beating faster, etc., I did NOT come home and start a huge fight with Mr. G like I used to. I just thought to myself that it is more fallout, it's unfortunate, but it's ok, I can deal with it. And everything was fine.
You did incredibly well Jana♥ congratulations.
I did tell him about it, and I got kind of annoyed when he said, "So she didn't even say hi to you? That was rude. She should at least be nice."
Jana... that response would have had me...
They do say the silliest things sometimes don't they?


text:
read reviews [13]
Yields about 20 cookies
These cookies are the size of your palm, with thick, chewy edges, soft centers, and big chocolate chunks. It's surprising just how delicious this whole-wheat version of an old classic is. This cookie is made with 100% whole-wheat flour, which gives it a distinctive, nutty taste. Use a good bittersweet chocolate for these cookies, as the flavor of high-quality chocolate pairs best with whole-wheat flour.
Place two racks in the upper and lower thirds of the oven and preheat to 350°F. Line two baking sheets with parchment. Although you can butter the sheets instead, parchment is useful for these cookies because the large chunks of chocolate can stick to the pan.
Sift the dry ingredients into a large bowl, pouring back into the bowl any bits of grain or other ingredients that may remain in the sifter.
Add the butter and the sugars to the bowl of a standing mixer fitted with a paddle attachment. With the mixer on low speed, mix just until the butter and sugars are blended, about 2 minutes. Use a spatula to scrape down the sides of the bowl. Add the eggs one at a time, mixing until each is combined. Mix in the vanilla. Add the flour mixture to the bowl and blend on low speed until the flour is barely combined, about 30 seconds. Scrape down the sides and bottom of the bowl.
Add the chocolate all at once to the batter. Mix on low speed until the chocolate is evenly combined. Use a spatula to scrape down the sides and bottom of the bowl, then scrape the batter out onto a work surface, and use your hands to fully incorporate all the ingredients.
Scoop mounds of dough about 3 Tbs. in size onto the baking sheet, leaving 3 inches between them, or about 6 to a sheet.
Bake the cookies for 16 to 20 minutes, rotating the sheets halfway through, until the cookies are evenly dark brown. Transfer the cookies, still on the parchment, to the counter to cool, and repeat with the remaining dough.
These cookies are best eaten warm from the oven or later that same day. They'll keep in an airtight container for up to 3 days. For freshly baked cookies anytime, you can refrigerate some of the dough for later. Be sure to scoop out balls of dough before chilling, as the cold dough is too difficult to scoop. Also, remember that cookies baked from chilled dough will be thicker than those made from room-temperature dough. This dough--scooped, chilled, and wrapped in plastic--will last in the refrigerator for one week, assuming it doesn't get eaten first!
Photo: Quentin Bacon
by Onirazael,
9/26/2012I gave this a 1 because it is a SHAMELESS attempt to give the illusion of a healthier alternative. Also if you are going to do that DO NOT take out the original. SHAME on you!!
by brava313,
5/10/2012Scrumptious! I substituted 4 oz. of (cold) sesame tahini for half the butter. Maybe for this reason, the dough was quite pliable, and the cookies spread nicely in the oven. The tahini gave the cookies a slightly bitter taste, like that of halvah. Instead of chopping up chocolate, I used 8 oz. of Ghirardelli 60% Cacao Bittersweet Chocolate Chips. Lacking a stand mixer (and having arthritic wrists), I used a hand-held mixer, at medium speed, to cream the butter and sugar. (I think it took about 10 minutes.) All in all, though, this was an easy recipe and well worth the effort. The cookies were soft and chewy, as promised (though possibly sweeter then absolutely necessary).
by IL,
4/10/2011Made by my daughter. Good but not the best chocolate chip cookies.
by madamel2000,
4/2/2011This cookie has just about everything one could want in a crisp chocolate chip cookie. Everything except enough chocolate chips, a shortcoming easily remedied by doubling the amount indicated in the original recipe. I used a 60% cocoa chip which provided great, dark chocolate flavor. I also added about a cup of chopped nuts - walnuts, almonds, pecans, whatever. They're great while still warm, but fantastic once cooled, as well. The group with which I shared them, lest I eat them all, raved. You will, too!
by Wenda,
3/23/2011What a fabulous chocolate chip cookie! And a lot healthier than the normal cookie. I did make some changes: I used King Arthur Flour - Unbleached WHITE Whole Wheat Flour -- it's not pure white, but it's lighter in color than regular whole wheat which in turn creates a lighter color cookie. I also added 3 tablespoons of Whole Ground Flaxseed Meal....it adds nutrients without any taste, at all. Great way to sneak some good stuff into your kids' tasty treats without them even knowing. After mixing, I refrigerated it for a couple of hours. Then cut the mix into 3 tablespoon sized blocks and rolled them into a ball. I otherwise followed the recipe exactly and I created 33 nice sized cookies.
by _eileen,
3/23/2011I just made these cookies and they are spectacular! Using an excellent quality chocolate is very important. I'm in a tropical climate without A/C and I put the batter in the fridge between each batch, which helped to keep the cookies from spreading so much, as did using a silpat sheet (no parchment available). I also made them smaller, 1Tbsp each and cut baking time to 8 min. Next time I might try substituting a bit of applesauce for some of the butter to make them slightly healthier.
by bklyngal,
3/22/2011I too found that these cookies did not spread and they almost had a sawdust consistency. I probably would not make this recipe again.
by pastamasta,
3/20/2011Surprised at how tasty these cookies are! I used Anita's Organic Fine grind whole wheat flour. The fine ground flour gave it the same consistency of white flour. Delish!
by Linda123,
3/19/2011I bought this cookbook and have made these cookies several times. I think these are some of the best chocolate chip cookies I've ever made. They have a nutty and almost caramel flavor with nice crispy edges. Be sure to use good quality chocolate, I used Scharffen Berger 70%.
by JamestownLiz,
1/25/2011I love these cookies. I disagree that they are indistinguishable from cookies made with white flour - they are different, but they are really good. They are not too sweet and the taste and texture are interesting - a bit crumbly. I have made them twice and will make them again. I've used Splenda and polyol-sweetened chocolate chips with good results.
by AbbyD,
1/5/2011These cookies are great! I love baking chocolate chip cookies and this recipe is just as good! You don't notice the whole wheat flour and the Bittersweet chocolate is perfect! Just the right amount of salt too!
by mowgli,
12/17/2010I didn't like these at all. A big waste of expensive chocolate. The 3 TBL of cookie dough is way too much and they didn't spread at all - they were basically hockey pucks that I threw away with almost no flavor - a big disappointment.
by Lupini,
8/27/2010I am always looking for good whole grain recipes. Regular chocolate chip cookies are too sugary. These are great. You wouldn't know they were whole wheat. I used a good Swiss dark chocolate and added dried raspberries as well. A great recipe as a base for lots of variations.
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subset: commoncrawl


text:
Salam.is playing or watching football accepted in islam
asked Apr 19 '12 at 05:03 Samir saheed 2●1●2
edited Apr 28 '12 at 23:21 NesreenA ♦ 199●7●22
football is a very tiring game. playing football and after that coming home tired and while offering namaz being tedious is absolutely wrong. many sheikhs say that even playing indoor games such as chess is not permissable as a lot of time is wasted in this instead if you say subhanallah properly once with makhraj will make you more fesh and your heart relaxed. belief me my friend try it once... and by the way we have not come in the world for doing timepass and enjoyment. we have come here to get assessed by allah for what we do in this world. so sow the seeds in this world and enjoy the ripened fruits in the hereafter inshallah.:) so from my side there is a total no no for football now its up to you.
if you fulfill all that you need to do like praying and fasting its perfectly acceptable however if you choose to go play a game instead of praying and you miss a salat thats when it becomes haram many sheikhs say everything is allowed in islam unless stated otherwise so if you just go play or wath a football game abstain from all the beer they give out and looking at the cheerleaders at the game and prayer time comes and you pray then it is acceptable
i know what i said above is what others say when they try to argue ciggaretes are halal but we arent supposed to ruin our bodies so just putting that out there......
answered Apr 19 '12 at 17:47 NesreenA ♦ 199●7●22
According to what i have been hearing from many scholers that allah migthy said'' wamahalakal jinni wal insi illaliya abudun''
answered Apr 19 '12 at 14:34 Mohammed Abdul 2●1


text:
Tropical Punch Bracelet
Create this sparkling sweet braided crystal bracelet from Create Your Style with Swarovski Elements and Jolee's Jewels™.
Designed by Karen Benvenuti for EKSuccess®
Material List
- Jolee's Jewels 6mm Bicone, Rose (35 pcs)
- Jolee's Jewels 6mm Bicone, Light Rose (35 pcs)
- Jolee's Jewels 6mm Bicone, Padpradscha (35 pcs)
- Jolee's Jewels 4mm Bicone, Padpradscha (50 pcs)
- Jolee's Jewels 6mm Bicone, Jonquil (35 pcs)
- Jolee's Jewels 4mm Bicone, Chrysolite (50 pcs)
- Stringing Wire
- Silver Crimp beads 8mm (12pcs)
- Silver Toggle
- Chain Nose Pliers
- Flush Cutters
Project Instructions
Cut stringing wire into six pieces each 16 inches long.
String a wire through a crimp bead then through the round end of the toggle. Thread back through the crimp and pull close to end and collapse the crimp with your chain nose pliers. Repeat this step for all of the wires attaching them all to the toggle.
Begin stringing on your crystals in your desired pattern. Start with 33 of the 6mm crystals to make the right length. Make a small knot very close to where you stopped stringing to hold in place. String crystals on all of the wires at the same length of the first strand and knot.
Braid your strands with two strands together.
When you reach the end, use a clasp to hold all but one end strand.
Thread this strand through a crimp bead then through the bar end of the toggle. Pull the crystals close to the end then leave a ¼" space between the toggle and crimp bead. You will need space in order to pass the toggle bar through the other end. Collapse the crimp bead tightly.
Repeat with all of the stands to finish.


text:
It had been seven long seasons since Blue Ridge beat rival St. Anne's Belfield. That all changed Friday evening when the Barons completed a 7-2 regular season and secured a playoff birth with a 35-12 victory over STAB.
The Barons raced out to a 21-0 halftime lead and extended the gap to 28-0 after three quarters. Blue Ridge was led by the three-headed rushing monster of seniors Shawn Steen, Cody Pegram, and Jared Arntzen. The trio combined for 274 yards and five scores on 34 carries.
After the game, head coach Orlando Patterson stopped by the Friday Night Endzone studio to talk about the win and preparing for a state title run.
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text:
Iran Quote of the Day
Who said the following:
Here's the truth: the Soviet Union had thousands of nuclear weapons, and Iran doesn't have a single one. But when the world was on the brink of nuclear holocaust, Kennedy talked to Khrushchev and he got those missiles out of Cuba. Why shouldn't we have the same courage and the confidence to talk to our enemies? That's what strong countries do, that's what strong presidents do, that's what I'll do when I'm president of the United States of America.
If you guessed Ron Paul you would be wrong.
The correct answer is Obama. Despite the fact that strict non-interventionists like Paul have stated similar statements over the past several months (decades even), it is not until the "credible" frontrunner says it that it becomes a widely-cited talking point.
A quick Google search finds that Paul stated something very similar more than 6 years ago:
Even at the height of the Cold War, when the Soviet Union had missiles pointed at us from 90 miles away in Cuba, we solved the dispute through dialogue and diplomacy. Why is it, in this post Cold War era, that the United States seems to turn first to the military to solve its foreign policy problems? Is diplomacy dead?
In fact, Ron Paul has said similar statements many times. Back on November 11, 2007 Paul was interviewed on Face the Nation and he said:
I fear our policy towards Iran is a threat. [...] We [should] have a more sensible policy, we talk to them and trade with them. We remove the sanctions. I mean, the Soviets had 40,000 of them. I was called up for military duty in 1962 during the Cuban crisis. The height of the Cold War and we won the Cold War, we didn't have to go a nuclear war. We won that by being strong by talking to the Soviets, we talked to Khrushchev. We have a lot more than Iran, Iran has none.
In March of 2006, Neil Cavuto interviewed Paul about this issue asking: Would our national security be threatened if Iran had the bomb?
Paul replied: "Could it be any worse than 30,000 nuclear missiles faced us down in the Cold War against the Soviets. Did we feel like we had to have regime change in the Cold War? Did we use containment and we can't contain Iran?"
In the September 2007 debate hosted by Fox, moderator Brit Hume asked the candidates about a hypothetical situation involving an uncooperative, nuclear capable Iran.
Paul replied: "Thinking back to the 1960s when I was in the Air Force for 5 years and there was a Cold War going on and the Soviet's 40,000 and we stood them down and we didn't have to have a confrontation. We should back off. We should be talking to Iran right now. We shouldn't be looking for the opportunity to attack them."
In a post-debate interview with Bill O'Reilly regarding Iran, Ron Paul literally says many of the same things, including "How come we got through the Cold War when the Soviets had 40,000 of them?"
In November 2007 in an interview with CNN he is asked about a hypothetical situation in which Iran has nuclear weapons.
Paul replied: "I prefer them not to. I think if we have different foreign policy they wouldn't have an incentive. But if they did, I wouldn't do much about it — I wouldn't bomb them. They are third rate nation. They are incapable of attacking their neighbors."
These quotes are from just a cursory perusal of the large archive that can be found on YouTube (ron paul + iran).
I am not suggesting that Obama's speech writer plagiarized but given that Paul has said the same thing for years one has to wonder if by sheer accident they caught a glimpse of the Paulian talking point and thought it made a lot of sense.
It sure is the sincerest form of flattery.
38 Responses to "Iran Quote of the Day"
The "silent treatment" policy usually is reserved for countries that are not a threat at all. It's a way of saying "You are pygmies, you are not in our league, we can swat you like a fly. You, sit at the same table as us? Never!"
Thus, they spoke to Khrushchev because they could not claim that his country was not a threat and not in their league…
So which is it? Is Iran such a threat as they say, meaning that they should talk to Iran? Or is Iran no threat at all and thus we should not worry about it?
This is a wonderfully perceptive and well-researched bit of political insight.
And it also shows why, despite the fact that Obama has sullied himself a bit in kowtowing to the Israel-first crowd, there is still significant reason for antiwar voters to prefer him to the other two "major candidates". One can't imagine Hillary making (or borrowing from Ron Paul) this argument in favor of talking to Iran. She never deviates from the robotically predictable, AIPAC-approved line on Iran.
Maybe it's only because Obama's newer to the game, but so far at last, the Israel lobby has not succeeded in extinguishing all vestiges of his humanity, the way they pretty much have succeeded with Hillary.
Obama was going nowhere until he started using a modified Ron Paul approach to foreign policy. I believe it will get him to the white House.
The difference is that everyone knows Ron Paul means what he says. The wars would end. The troops would indeed come home. The empire would be dismantled. He'd roll up the tent on our surveillance state. We might even stave off economic calamity.
Obama? Does anyone really believe that he'd immediately do any of these things? Would he establish diplomatic relations and end trade sanctions with Iran? Cuba? North Korea?
There's little war profiteering to be had in a country that minds its own business. Boeing and Halliburton might have to make things people actually want. Horrors!
And Israel would have to deal with its neighbors in a mutually beneficial way. Heaven forbid that we see a legitimate truce in the region.
I know, I know. But at this point, I'd be pathetically grateful if we could only go back to the pre-Dubya, bad-but-less-destructive degree of liberventionism and pandering to the Israel lobby.
When it comes to pro-Israel militarism, Bush and McCain (and Hillary) make Obama look like sweet reason in the flesh.
What a terible shame the American people didn't support Ron Paul.
The reason the American people didn't support Ron Paul was because he didn't fit their idea of what a president should "look" and "speak" like.
The man is himself. He always has been. It's the country's loss that the people are so smitten by macho, Wall Street, Hollywood, and Madison Avenue to pick the ideal person for president.
This is not "The Bachelor" TV show, this is the future of our country. We need to stop looking at the wrong characteristics in those running for office.
Truths from paulite above.
He may have talked to the Soviets but it was from a position of strength Kennedy instituted a full scale naval blockade of the entire island of Cuba, had plans drawn up to bomb the silos if necessary, and placed all US military forces on their highest state of alert.
Kennedy was a democrat but he was not a chump, a wimp, and a panzy like Mr. Obama. Mr. Obama does not have the same kind of guts and grit that Kennedy did. Sadly, niether do most of today's democrats.
So, you're a panzy, a wimp and a chump if you don't sing, "bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb-bomb Iran " like your infantile, ignorant, jingo-istic Israel-First, America-last candidate..McCain; the candidate of the "defense" industry and the war profiteers ( like the vicious mercenaries at Blackwater ) and the scripturally ignorant, presumptuous Armageddonite evangelicals??
McCain is so bad he makes the case for Obama. Elitist? He was the guy who went to Mich. and told the unemployed that their jobs aren't coming back, but hey he's got a plan to slightly subsidize their incomes at their new jobs at Walmart..
But Mossad Tim doesn't really care about America. He's true love is Israel, instigating for the destruction of it's enemies, ignoring it's crimes-starting with it's founding..Such love for a country created through relatively recent immigration, terrorism, massacres, targeted assassinations and, of course, ethnic cleansing to a greater degree than any other country in modern history..
Cuba was a strategic threat to the US. Iran is a make-believe threat to Israel and a non-threat to the US.
The analogy ends there.
The only wimp I see is Tim R. who wants others to fight the battles he is too cowardly to fight for himself and his homeland.
Right on Corkey. It reminds me of young children who just cry and won't talk or apologise for something they've done. It is stronger and more courageous to take responsibility and talk to someone with who you have differences than to just say "no comment, you're terrorists". Now THAT is whimpy.
John Adams, William Howard Taft, Woodrow Wilson, Franklin D. Roosevelt (he was not stricken with polio until age 30, after World War I) Bill Clinton, Barack Obama, are the names of just a few people that never served in the military. Not to mention Michael Moore, Barbara Streisand, and other leading left wing big mouths. Other's such as Ron Paul and Jimmy Carter served but never saw actual combat. I am sick and tired of these stupid remarks that anyone who dares to have an opinion on national security policy but never saw actual military combat is a coward and somehow unqualified to even have an opinion on the subject. Funny thing, our Constitution does not have any requirment to serve in the military before running for Congress; yet Congress has the power to declare war. There is similarly no requirement that the President have had military service and yet the Constitution declares the President to be the Commander In Chief of all US military forces.
Key word is "was". Cuba is no longer a threat to anyone. The USA should end its foolish embargo.
We talked to Begin, Sharon, Ben Gurion, Shamir and Sadat. They were all terrorists. How about Kadafy, Mao and the North Vietnamese, they all ran terror operations and we talked to them. The Mossad, and Shin Bet are worldwide terror rings. That doesn't stop us from giving Israel 5 billion every year, no matter what. I say talk to Hamas and Hizballah, even a majority of Israelis think they should be included in peace negotiations.
And this tirade is in response to which post? Methinks, Tim, something's gnawing at your conscience, other than the dead million Iraqis we killed from 1991 on.
Tom. R is such a "panzy", he hasn't even done a bit of spying for Israel, though he earned himself a martyr's crown by getting Palestinian kids to throw stuff at him.
In the Dual-Loyalists Brigade, there are many non-com roles.
Once again shallow people choose style over substance.
Serving in the military is not a test of manhood or patriotism.
However, promoting warfare to cause others (especially young people) to fight for another country at the expense of our country (the United States) is the absolute measure of a "pussy".
So go fix yourself a saucer of milk and make sure to shake the litter off your feet when you go to the bathroom. Meow, meow, meow.
Tim R.,
You are so funny. Ever thought of doing a stand-up routine? You have plenty of material. Just work on the live deliver.
The spotlighted article today by Barbara Slavin on "Hyping the Threat From Iran" has attracted an unusual number of the Israeli Megaphone propagandists to the comments section. They're ridiculing Slavin and trotting out the usual BS about Iran.
These pro-Israel hasbara bints are a busy lot lately, do they fear that public opinion is turning against the "sh*tty little country" and its endless wars?
That picture of Pelosi pledging her allegiance to her true country could not be more stomach turning. I have her office on speed dial and will make sure and call them today to tell them Pelosi should stay in Israel. She is not welcome back to the country she (and almost all other politicians) betray daily. But as Speaker of the House she should be up for charges of treason. Maybe punishing her will send a message to "our" representatives that we want the U.S. put first and Israel last.
Oh please may Ron Paul be advising Barack Obama, if only indirectly.
I spoke with Steny Hoyer's (D-Israel) office yesterday. He's purportedly "our" House Majority "Leader" — what a joke.
Hoyer leads congressional delegations to Israel, that's about the extent of his job. The best part is that his office keeps secret which congressional representatives go on these tours of their Home Land. Why are these fealty trips to Israel on the part of "our" congressional reps kept secret? I guess "fealty" really is the operative word.
Anyway, not only did Hoyer's office refuse to repudiate Dumbo Bush's saber-rattling against Iran, the 12-year-old who answered the phone endorsed it! He also didn't think that there was anything wrong with this new announcement that the Feds are going to collect the DNA of newborns.
4th Amendment and Habeas Corpus gone in one fell swoop, because, I don't know about you, but I consider my DNA part of my "person" and my body.
The Democrats are as bad or worse than the GOP because they play-act that they care about the Bill of Rights, when all they care about is the money that lines their pockets from this endless War on Islam and its pro-Israel fan club like Haim Saban and Harvey Weinstein.
Tim R. writes: "He may have talked to the Soviets but it was from a position of strength".
Oh. I see. We can't talk to Iran because they're so big and strong. The Soviet Union was a mere superpower, with a gigantic conventional military and nuclear arsenal, a population of over 200 million, a land mass that dwarfs even our own, and a harem of enslaved satellite nations threatening Europe. Iran is SO much more powerful than that!
We have to wait until we can achieve a "position of strength" relative to Iran before any negotiations can take place. Please ask Israel to tell us when that is.
These blog postings are becoming boring. Tell us something we DON'T know.
To David Banks, et al:
Again with the "dual loyalty" I put Israel first stuff? Can someone please explain that to me because I don't get it. Just because I support Israel's right to exist and to defend herself, and I happen to be Jewish, that means there is an automatic presumption that I don't put America first? And I am guilty until proved innocent? That doesn't make sense to me. For instance,I very much admire Great Britain and the British people and if I could not live in the United States that would be my first choice country to move to. Does that mean I am secretly loyal to Her Majesty and put America second? I love France too and can't get enough of the culture, the wine, the food, the art, etc. Does that mean I might secretly be loyal to France? I mean this line of reasoning is absurd. Enough already!
Gee, Tim, we don't know what we were thinking! I mean, questioning your loyalty is like doubting the tooth fairy or something!
No, no, no, Tim. There is no automatic presumption at all. You've given way more than a mere circumstantial case.
BTW Your chickenhawk analysis is dead wrong. But you already know that.
There's a huge difference,… Paul means it.
Obama says what he has to say to get elected. He says he's against the war, but his voting record says different.
Is this year going real sloooow or is it me?
Cue Eugene Costa here.
[...] informed Americans hold stupid, State-loving journalists like yourself in such low esteem, here is yet another example for you: Who said the following: Here's the truth: the Soviet Union had thousands of nuclear weapons, [...]
Two million, if one includes both the war and the sanctions.
Don't forget the Khmer Rouge.
The only reason "why" the US negotiated with the USSR "was" because at one time they had about 20,000 nuclear warheads. Even 1,000 gets you a slot at the negotiations table. The US can't attack anyone capable of vaporizing the planet 5 or 6 times in a row. The USSR was not filled with fanatics.
The Cuban Missile Crisis was resolved when the the US removed its own IRBMs from Turkey which were based next to the USSR.
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Je suis un fan de blog et des blogs tant là-bas maintenant, très peu se démarquer. Votre blog a attiré mon attention et j'ai pensé que je poste pour que vous sachiez que.


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Tuesday 11:30 AM - 9:45 PM
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Here's the shocking part about Frjtz: the fries are only just OK. The salads are much better and the crepes are simply prepared and quite delicious. If it's brunch, you want their waffle and under no circumstances should you order the burger. Nice wine and REALLY good beer. Plus it's GREAT for groups, especially ones that don't like splitting one check -- you order and pay yourself at the counter.
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The former Hayes Valley favorite reopens in the Mission with Belgian beer, pommes frites and a variety of crepes and sandwiches. – The Scene
Hungry 'hood crawlers order at the bar and take seats as they watch their food being prepared behind glass. Smoke-like designs crawl along white walls decked with vibrant skateboard art, while a giant white banquette runs the length of the restaurant--stopping at a semi-secluded back area flanked by curly-cue metal work. High-energy tunes pump throughout.
The Food
Blanched, Belgian-style frittes are the restaurant's namesake: delicate, starch-free fries, with skin attached, served in fountain-style glasses. More than a dozen dipping sauces include a thick grilled-eggplant mayo, a creamy peppercorn and a tangy artichoke. Other dishes are named after artists, including the lively Hokusai: a tuna-caper salad surrounded by avocado then kissed with ginger-hoising dressing. Fluffy, slightly golden crepes steal the show, including the Miro (savory prosciutto, sardine-free tapenade) and light, sweet Lichenstein (strawberries and creme fraiche drizzled with wild berry coulis).
Meh – The selection of Belgian beers is comparable to any bar in San Francisco (most have Chimay and some have Leffe). The Duval is the only interesting one, but even that can be found at a good liquor store. The crepes are sub par, but the sandwich i happened to get was actually quite delicious and redeeming (the Michelangelo). The coolest thing were these little nooks to hang out in stuffed with pillows. Nothing special...three stars.
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Tony Cairoli and Jeffery Herlings made it an orange day at Sevlievo, Bulgaria sealing both the MXGP and MX2 GP for the factory team!
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From the classic image of Raquel Welch in a leather bikini in One Million Years B.C. that no doubt decorated your father's dorm room, to the poster of Jessica Alba in blue latex in Fantastic Four that probably adorned yours, sexy movie posters have a long and glorious history.
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Glen Allen Resident to Sing National Anthem at Nationwide Race
When thousands of fans stand for the national anthem tonight prior to the Virginia 529 College Savings 250 NASCAR Nationwide Series race at Richmond International Raceway, all eyes will be on a Glen Allen resident fulfilling a lifetime dream of singing at a NASCAR race.
Twenty-two year-old Ryan Corbin of Glen Allen entered Richmond International Raceway's National Anthem contest last month and ultimately won the opportunity to perform prior to the race.
"I'm so excited," said Corbin. "Four months ago I was in the stands hoping I could sing at a race one day. And four months later I'm doing it. It's the chance of a lifetime and I've wanted to do it since I was five years old. I'm just overwhelmed with joy right now."
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Varina Ruritans honor students
The Varina Ruritan Club hosted the winners of its 2014 Environmental Essay contest at its monthly meeting March 11 in Varina.
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For the fifth consecutive year, St. Christopher's and Benedictine will play a varsity baseball game at Glen Allen's RF&P Park as part of a fundraising effort for the River City Buddy Ball program.
The game will take place Saturday, April 12, at 7 p.m., and the teams hope to raise $3,000 through donations, raffles and other efforts. Admission to the game is free, but fans who attend are asked to donate funds for the Glen Allen Youth Athletic Association's Buddy Ball program, which enables disabled children and teens to play baseball. > Read more.
Highland Springs field to be dedicated in honor of longtime coach Spears
The Henrico Division of Recreation and Parks will dedicate the Highland Springs Little League Majors Field in memory and honor of Rev. Robert "Bob" L. Spears, Jr., on April 12 with a ceremony at the field at 8 a.m.
Spears served the league as a coach and volunteer for 30 years and was praised as a pioneer for equality. His "Finish strong" motto embodied ethical perseverance on the field and in life. > Read more.
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Weekend Top 10
Do the Bunny Hop over to Meadow Farm on Saturday for an introduction to all the farm animals there! An introduction to "Global Sounds" – featuring Japanese, Indonesian, West African, Indian, and Brazilian music and dance performances – can be found at the University of Richmond. The University of Richmond will also host the annual Spider spring game, as well as the inaugural Spiders Easter Egg Hunt. For all our top picks this weekend, click here! > Read more.
Restaurant watch
Find out how your favorite dining establishments fared during their most recent inspections by the Virginia Department of Health. > Read more.
A fun, fuzzy ride
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Do Muppets sleep? It's hard to say.
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No mystery to GOP's failures
Republicans once again failed to bring home the bacon in Connecticut. Campaign analysts are asking why.
This is an easy one. Republicans are outnumbered in the state about 2 to 1, a very steep hill to climb, and considering the historic nature of journalism in Connecticut, they cannot expect a leg up from the state's left-of-center news media. The Hartford Courant's presidential endorsement editorial, for instance, looked as if it had been dictated to the paper's editorial board by David Axelrod, and the paper's endorsement of Democrat Elizabeth Esty over moderate Republican Andrew Roraback was particularly self-serving.
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grant and
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Privileges tab, located on the application's top ribbon. There you'll be able to add and delete users, and use a simple series of checkboxes to set and later modify a user's privileges.
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Operations tab located on the application's ribbon (only available with configuration storage is enabled).
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config.inc.php file:
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Synchronize tab located on the top ribbon, and then choose the source and target databases. Prior to synchronization, visual cues will provide you with details regarding whether a source table already resides in the target, and whether the structure and data are already up to date.