Amazon Unveils $199 Kindle Fire Tablet - <AUTHOR> http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-09-28/amazon-unveils-199-kindle-fire-tablet.html <comment><USER3> Bezos, on Amazon's refreshed e-Ink readers:

 _So meet the family. These are premium products at non-premium prices. People are going to love these products._

This is Amazon's mission statement for product development. They will not compete with Apple's "revolutionary, magical" phones and tablets; instead, they'll sell quality tablets and readers to the average person at great prices. This populist attitude has been missing from the tablet market since the iPad's release.

The Fire will be the first successful Android tablet because the user base _already exists_. With the last few Kindle generations, Amazon has groomed customers to pay for electronic content. These users will buy Kindle Fires and e-Ink Kindles in droves, buy more books, and tell their friends.

At this price, Amazon won't steal Apple's customers. They will simply introduce a new segment of people to the tablet market. Developers need to think about this as another golden ticket. Here's the iOS gold rush, part deux.

EDIT: changed "luxurious" to "revolutionary" after reading a comment below. I need more coffee.

<comment><USER4> "With this price, though, Amazon won't steal Apple's customers.."

I think a lot of people with iPads would have been more than happy to spend half as much to get an easy-to-use tablet.

<comment><USER3> I hesitate to agree because it seems like the iPad and Fire will provide different experiences.

For what it's worth, I couldn't justify an iPad for $500. I would absolutely consider a Fire for $200 (or a Fire 3G for $250-300).

<comment><USER5> He or she is saying that some people who were not looking for the advanced features bought the iPad because it was the only tablet available beyond some minimum.

<comment><USER6> Awareness is also a big factor.

My mom (she's a minister) just got an iPad, when all she needed was a handheld device with which she can scroll the text of a eulogy, when she's at a grave doing a funeral. The lowliest of tablets can handle this task, but "iPad" is all people talk about. If Amazon can generate buzz -- and I think they can -- then it would certainly erode sales such as my mom's.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> Looks like Bloomberg got early access and published before the actual press conference by accident.

The most relevant details:

 _The Kindle Fire will have a 7-inch display and sell for $199, compared with $499 for Apple's cheapest iPad, Amazon executives said. The device, a souped- up version of the Kindle electronic-book reader, will run on Google Inc.'s Android software, the Seattle-based company said._

 _The Kindle Fire doesn't have an embedded camera or a microphone. The device offers Wi-Fi connectivity, though not 3G access, and comes with a 30-day free trial of Amazon Prime, the company's $79-a-year membership service that includes streaming video and free two-day shipping._

<comment><USER7> It wasn't an accident. It was a straight news "scoop". The news headline came across the wire at 9:31am:

      *AMAZON TO UNVEIL KINDLE FIRE TODAY, SELL TABLET AT $199  BN  9:31

Just to be sure, I checked with the news team. :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> Apparently there will be a $79 regular Kindle as well: [http://thisismynext.com/2011/09/28/amazon- launches-79-kindle...](http://thisismynext.com/2011/09/28/amazon- launches-79-kindle/)

<comment><USER9> Great price point. It's basically in impulse zone: "This book is 6 dollars cheaper at Kindle price... if I buy 12 it pays for itself..." but note there's no physical keyboard. Without a touch screen, it looks like it won't do note- taking, which is a bummer.

<comment><USER10> I'd be interested to see what % of Kindle users make use of the Keyboard. I'm pretty sure that I've only ever touched it for inputting URIs when web- browsing from abroad.

<comment><USER11> In the two years that I've owned my Kindle, I don't think that I've _ever_ used the keyboard (at least not intentionally).

<comment><USER12> Same. But I know others (like my brother, a student) who use it a ton.

They can keep selling the Kindle3 with keyboard for those who want it.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Main Amazon pages don't seem to be updated, but this URL is: <http://www.kindle.com>

Interesting stuff:

* Will still sell current Kindle as "Kindle Keyboard" for same price.

* New non-touch Kindle is 2 ounces lighter than old Kindle, but has half the battery life.

* The new touch Kindle is 1 ounce lighter than old Kindle, with same battery life.

* Kindle Fire is 6-7 ounces lighter than an iPad 2.

* All the prices that were quoted are "with special offers" and the non-ad ones cost more.

<comment><USER14> What popped out at me was the battery life for the fire:

 _8 hours continuous reading or 7.5 hours video playback_

8 hours doesn't seem like very much. Clearly its an LCD panel with back lighting and all that, but 8 hours seems a bit short.

<comment><USER13> That is a fairly standard number for a tablet. iPad, Touchpad, Galaxy Tab, nook color are all in that neighborhood. Anything better means a bigger battery = more weight and thickness.

<comment><USER15> iPad is 10 hours of video and even more for Reading.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> I love this form factor and price, but is anyone else concerned about the whole cloud proxy (remote EC2 / S3 cache)? This puts all of your browsing history on their servers so forget privacy. It would even enable them to do things like substitute their own ads in place of the originals etc.

On the one hand the predictive thing seems really cool and the techy in me is excited about the idea. On the other hand I'm really not a fan of a remote cache from a privacy perspective.

<comment><USER17> I'd imagine you can opt out of that by either installing another browser (like Skyfire) or going to some settings in Silk.

I don't think Amazon will track your browsing without your explicit approval, and I'd imagine it would be much easier to send each request as a stateless request to any of its EC2 instances.

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> If Amazon want to not make comparisons with the iPad, something I'd strongly suggest, they should stop making statements like this:

> The Kindle Fire will have a 7-inch display and sell for $199, compared with > $499 for Apple's cheapest iPad, Amazon executives said in interviews with > Bloomberg Businessweek.

Also, it's disingenuous. Of course a 7" "tablet" is cheaper than Apple's 10" tablet. Film at 11.

That being said, I'm very pleased to see this. I didn't think e-ink readers would be abandoned by Amazon but I didn't see them being a high priority either yet here we are with updated models (and me having just bought a Kindle like 2-3 months ago, grrr).

I'll have to look into it and see if the new ones are faster refresh (really the only thing I care about). If so I'll probably buy (another) one. What the hell. Although I'm not entirely convinced of the touch interface on an e-ink device. I guess we'll see.

Come to think of it, I might just buy one of the $199 tablets too. It's almost impulse territory too.

I do think Amazon could do really well with this. I imagine these will be popular holiday items. And like everyone has said, they are going to promote the hell out of these.

That all being said, I'm not giving up my iPad just yet. :)

<comment><USER19> > and me having just bought a Kindle like 2-3 months ago, grrr

I wouldn't be annoyed, the Kindle you have has a battery that lasts twice as long as the new Kindle, and it has a proper keyboard. The only plus for the new Kindle is it's a bit lighter.

<comment><USER20> > and it has a proper keyboard

This is my favorite feature of the kindle.

Before I used to read technical books in bed and I wasn't sure how much I was actually getting out of them. With the kindle I can make notes as I go and then review the notes later.

I find I'm retaining a whole lot more with the note taking ability of the kindle than I do by just reading a book in bed.

I've tried to use the iPad keyboard on the kindle app but it's just much slower.

I wouldn't give up the physical keyboard for anything.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> People in Europe are getting screwed _again_.

\- Small Kindle: $79

\- Power Adapter: $10

\- Cost in USA: $89 (free shipping)

Okay, so I see a banner that they ship to Europe. Excellent, I click it. Then I get a new banner, saying that my country qualifies for free shipping (pending some conditions). I go through the checkout process and I'm faced with the following list:

\- Kindle + Adapter: $119

\- Shipping: $27 (what happened to the free shipping banner you advertised with on the Kindle page AFTER I selected my country!?)

\- Tax: 0

\- Import duties: $28

\</comment><comment></comment><comment>--

\- Grand total: $174

That's twice the amount you have to pay in the US. Really, Amazon? Can't you just tell me it's going to cost that much BEFORE I go through the entire checkout process?

<comment><USER22> If you think you are being screwed, take a look at how it is for Brazil.

Items (2): $118.99

Shipping & Handling: $28.97

Total Before Tax: $147.96

Estimated Tax To Be Collected: $0.00

Import Fees Deposit $140.74

\</comment></comment><comment>---

Order Total: $288.70

Obviously not Amazon's fault. We have absurd taxes here.

<comment><USER23> If you think you are being screwed, take a look at how it is for China. \</comment></comment><comment>----- Yes, it's not available for China, and never has been Obviously not Amazon's fault. We have absurd party here.

<comment><USER22> So we are both screwed, because I obviously wont buy it for $288.70. Atleast I think that our fellow european friends feel a little less screwed now.

</comment></comment><comment><USER24> Finally, someone other than Apple gets that it isn't about what it is (i.e., specs), it's about what it does (i.e., content).

</comment><comment><USER25> They're sure getting their jabs at Apple in everywhere they can:

"There are two types of companies: those that work hard to charge customers more, and those that work hard to charge customers less. Both approaches can work. We are firmly in the second camp."

"System Requirements: None, because it's wireless and doesn't require a computer."

<comment><USER26> The requirements line has been there since the K1. Not an explicit jab at Apple as much as "this isn't complex technology, relax".

</comment></comment><comment><USER27> I find the Kindle Fire kind of an odd duck. I realize e-ink is not the most responsive screen, but having a fully android based tablet that used e-ink would have been fantastic. I would have gladly bought it. But a Kindle that lacks e-ink feels strange to me. I guess they are riding on Kindle's success, but this really isn't a Kindle.

I own both a Kindle and an iPad and I flat out can not read books on the iPad. After about 30 minutes my eyes are strained and a headache is emerging. To me e-ink is not optional, but the killer feature.

</comment><comment><USER28> Most people here and in the press (Amazon's PR unit included) consider this a company v company debate - "Apple vs Amazon" debate. Barnes & Noble seems to be such an afterthought that the Nook Color gets little attention though it is the directly competing product in terms of product specs and price (though the NC price will have to come down from $249 to $199 or below to compete).

The NC curently has what I think is a large advantage in that its easy to root via the microSD slot so it becomes a fully functioning Android tablet, including Android Market. The KF can provide Amazon media - for users, does this outweigh access to the Android market and native access to Google products? The NC still got nowhere near the appreciation from the public in its history that the Kindle Fire got in one day.

I'm curious as to what strategy Barnes & Noble takes with regards to NC in resposne to KF. A reliable source tells me that the NC is 85% owned by women and the targeted primary audience for its apps are 30+ women. There are few free apps because BN doesn't want to create an expectation of "everything should be free" (i.e. get users used to paying for value). The targeted audience also is one less opposed to paying for something nor have time to find free hacks (unlike young males). I don't think this market will be sufficient to keep the Kindle Fire from dominating at the $200 price point. Everyone, including not-yet-purchased-a-tablet 30+ women, will soon likely hear of the Kindle Fire and BN will lose much of its small core audience.

Given the $200 price point, I think that there may be an oppotunity for BN to make a large mainstream splash if it allows greater flexibility in the NC (including fully integrating Android Market). Otherwise, I don't see how it competes with Amazon because of "coolness" perceptions of the two companies. In that respect, Amazon competes with Apple; while BN competes with Borders (RIP).

<comment><USER29> > Given the $200 price point, I think that there may be an oppotunity for BN > to make a large mainstream splash if it allows greater flexibility in the NC > (including fully integrating Android Market).

Good point. It might not have been possible before, but it might just be that Google will feel threatened enough by the Fire to want to help out a competitor and let them officially use the Google apps. It would certainly make it a no brainer for me. Of course, it might be a dumb decision for BN (Android Market => install Kindle App => no need to buy books from BN any more)

</comment></comment><comment><USER30> I love how Bloomberg released an article describing the press conference in the past tense half an hour before it started; Amazon hasn't caught up with Apple's secrecy yet.

Amazon is doing the right thing, which wouldn't be that surprising except that every other Android vendor has done the wrong thing. Amazon is presenting a unified, controlled environment to users (which most of them want), provides both content and app delivery services, and is selling tablets cheap enough to as not to compete directly with Apple. It will do well.

<comment><USER31> This is a common media strategy. It is a win-win situation:

a) Amazon rep. unofficially approves a "leaky" article just before the press conference. b) Bloomberg journalist guarantees a front page story on their web page. c) Amazon reaps the benefits of more coverage

You are forgetting that Amazon Press Conferences, without these advance buzz giving messages would not be even 10% of what Apple conferences are. Now they get at least a half of that.

Everybody in America is waking up. Everybody in Europe is bored at work. Everybody in Asia is enjoying their evening.

Ideal.

</comment></comment><comment><USER32> It's a shame to see that text-to-speech is absent from the light $79 model (it's present in the touch). At 6 ounces, that would be _exactly_ the model I'd want to have TTS, which has been a killer feature for me. I actually prefer the robotic voice to most audiobook narrators for a lot of material - the affectless delivery must be how my internal voice reads a lot of books. Here's hoping Amazon puts TTS functionality into their Android/iPhone apps sooner than later - I'd gladly pay a $20 in-app purchase...

</comment><comment><USER33> A large USP of the Kindle is it's E-Ink display (leaving aside other ereaders from sony etc. for now). I have often recommended people to 'get a kindle' when asked about reading books electronically; this will no longer be the case. I think this new addition dilutes the Kindle brandname.

<comment><USER3> I don't understand this rationale at all. How does the Kindle Fire devalue the Kindle brand name? The Fire is a different product from the e-ink Kindles. You can still say "get a Kindle touch for $99" or "get a Kindle with hard keys for $79."

<comment><USER33> Audio is the core feature of the original iPod. Reading is the core feature of the Kindle. Reading from an lcd screen is a significantly worse experience than from e-ink. My point is that Amazon releasing the Kindle Fire is akin to if Apple released the iPod Touch (which had new features such as web browsing, youtube etc.) with degraded 8-bit audio.

<comment><USER34> The iPod Touch is a considerably worse iPod than its predecessors. This doesn't seem to have hurt its sales much, nor the iPod brand.

<comment><USER35> Define worse. When I got an iPhone, my iPod went into complete disuse, and I ended up giving it to a friend. The iPhone/iPod touch interface is, to me, far and away better than the original iPod interface. This was then bolstered with the new earbuds that added volume control to the pre-existing track control on the mic/clicker.

It certainly has less drive space than older iPods, but I have yet to fill up my iPhone. I understand using the old iPod as a portable hard drive, but storing your entire music collection on it never made sense to me - which is why I gladly traded the smaller drive space for the better interface.

<comment><USER34> Obviously it depends on personal taste and use, but I think the Touch has a couple of serious deficiencies compared with the others. First, I believe that battery life isn't as good, although I could be wrong on that one. Second, it's impossible to play, pause, or switch tracks without actually looking at the thing unless you're using a compatible headset. Plus the storage space you mention.

I think the Touch and iPhone are more than _adequate_ for the task, but they're not quite as good as the pure iPods, and that functionality is completely eclipsed by their other capabilities. I haven't used an iPod since getting an iPhone either, but that's just because it suffices, not because it's equally good.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER36> They show a lot the device in kid's hands : because 7" is too small for grown up?

I have played with a RIM Playbook once and the size factor was the same concern. Seems like under 9-10" it can't be a replacement for my laptop in any situation and it feels more like a toy.

(Disclaimer : I own an iPad)

<comment><USER37> Your tablet can never be a replacement for your laptop. Period.

<comment><USER38> Hmm I'm not so sure... My iPad can replace my laptop for basically everything but work. Web browsing, listening/browsing/buying music, twitter et al, emails, games, books, movies/tv shows, etc, etc.

<comment><USER37> "My iPad can replace my laptop for basically everything but work" - so I guess my point stands. I was trying to argue against OP's point that all these things "Web browsing, listening/browsing/buying music, twitter et al, emails, games, books, movies/tv shows, etc, etc" can be done on a Playbook too.

<comment><USER38> Ok, fair enough.

I thought what you were trying to argue was "Your tablet can never be a replacement for your laptop. Period."

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER39> I'm guessing this means no free Kindle this November like Kevin Kelly was predicting. [http://www.kk.org/thetechnium/archives/2011/02/free_kindle_t...](http://www.kk.org/thetechnium/archives/2011/02/free_kindle_thi.php)

<comment><USER13> I bet if you add this new price point to the graph, you can plot a new curve that makes it not go to zero.

<comment><USER3> I called this graph ridiculously dumb and got downvoted for it.

The idea was ridiculous, but the thought experiment was fun. Still, hardware costs are not trivial. There's no way Amazon gives something away for free (with 10 ebook purchases) just yet.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER40> And again, all of this is US only. I don't understand this, they are able to ship a standard Kindle to Europe, why not a Kindle Touch?

</comment><comment><USER41> How does the split-browser architecture of Silk handles HTTPS?

 _Everything_ the EC2 backend does, like recompressing images, pre-rendering pages, resolving DNS records, etc, would require man-in-the-middle interception and decryption of TLS/SSL connections. Not good. I hope they leave HTTPS connections untouched.

That said, for plain HTTP traffic, if they can manage to significantly reduce page loading times, well done. I would prefer to see the fundamental problem resolved of course (lower latency on wireless networks), instead of relying on a complex back-end which will no doubt have issues of its own (availability, bugs, etc).

</comment><comment><USER42> I am kinda waiting for the DX to drop in price. I really want that bigger e-ink screen, but it's not worth $379 to me.

<comment><USER43> See if my comment elsewhere here is of use to you <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3048411>

I find the smaller E-ink screens a great fit for comfortable reading of fiction, or non-fiction prose like biography or history, where one doesn't need to skip around much, and the font size adjustment may come in handy.

<comment><USER44> Do you have an opinion about what size Kindle (e-ink) is best for Web browsing? You'd think the DX would be better, but what about the weight?

<comment><USER43> I wouldn't recommend trying web browsing on E-ink, unless it's through some Readability filter or similar. The screen updates are too slow for it, and the DX browser didn't render perfectly. I suspect the CPUs don't have the oomph for the modern web.

Note that my experience is on a 2010 vintage DX with no WiFi - it is limited to 3G on Amazon's dime. In Europe that's only Wikipedia and the Amazon store.

<comment><USER44> Thanks. Reading from LCD screens gives me eye strain, so I was thinking of reading blogs, news and software docs on the Kindle. Do you think that might work?

<comment><USER42> My local Staples sells Kindles. I would suggest digging a physical one up and flipping through it for a while.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER45> One thing I'm surprised about here is how much Amazon is bothering to mention the tech behind everything in all the promo copy I've seen so far. This is something Apple never does and I think its a misstep for Amazon here. Claiming that silk uses the "raw computational horsepower of Amazon EC2" on the homepage of Amazon.com is a completely useless detail for 99% of people who will buy this device. Why not use the audience attention better and focus on what matters with this. Full color touch. Amazon content. Apps. Half the price of an iPad.

<comment><USER46> It's important to feature it but you need to feature it in a way that people will instantly connect with the essence of the performance gain ala Firewire/Thunderbolt/Retina -- I'm pretty sure if this was an Apple launch they would be calling this RocketWeb or somesuch and there would be a bar chart showing the same pages in RocketWeb downloading 3 times faster (maybe they had this, I haven't watched the keynote yet).

</comment></comment><comment><USER47> Just tried to order the new non-touch Kindle (which ships today): Kindle, Wi- Fi, 6" E Ink Display cannot be shipped to the selected address. A non-US address was selected for this US-only Kindle.

BEZOS!!!

<comment><USER48> Did you select the one with special offers? I believe that one's US only. Perhaps the other one will work?

</comment></comment><comment><USER49> I'm not surprised that they decided not to launch the Fire tablet outside the US. At $199 they have to be selling near cost in the US, hoping to make their profit on media sales. Amazon's media stores are minimal at best outside the US. They still don't sell music or video in Canada, for example. Amazon is going to have a hard time playing at the same level as Apple until they step up their legal game and treat the rest of the world as more than an afterthought.

</comment><comment><USER50> What I want to see is how the app market will pan out. I can only assume (and didn't previously consider) that this will not carry Google branding at all - that means the Android Market, Gmail, Maps, etc, apps will all be missing.

The Android Market would be the big loss here. Amazon seems to take more control over the selling of your product than you do once you submit to their Appstore, but if you want to show up on their tablets, you won't have a choice.

</comment><comment><USER43> Interesting detail: an official-looking "Java TM Powered" swirly cup logo on the bottom right of the Quick Start guide for the new Kindle: <http://kindle.s3.amazonaws.com/KindleQuickStartGuide.pdf>

(also in that PDF, a figure that shows the bottom side with micro USB socket and power switch, which was what I was looking for)

<comment><USER26> The K3 and (IIRC) K2 had the Java logo as well. Java's used for the KDK, don't know how deep in the stack Java goes, though.

</comment></comment><comment><USER51> I own a tablet (Motorola XOOM) and have used an iPad on a couple of occasions. Those tablets are pitched as substitutes for the PC, suggesting that you might _produce_ content using them. (Apples early release of an office suite for iPad is further evidence of this focus.)

However, so far, I've really only found tablets useful for _content consumption_. The Kindle Fire makes the bold (and I think right) choice to optimize for consumption. I suspect its smaller form factor will appeal to how more people will actually use these things. Similarly, I don't think people really want high-quality cameras or video on their tablets.

The Kindle Fire is exactly the right product for Amazon to release (given their strengths), and I suspect it might be match the needs of a larger group of people than the iPad.

However, content production in tablets will surely improve over time and I don't think iPad/Windows 8/Android are misguided. I'm just betting that Amazon latched on to a real hole in the market that can be profitable right now.

</comment><comment><USER52> so, sounds like Apple's skimming the top end of the tablets, and Amazon's skimming the bottom end.

<comment><USER53> In terms of quality of experience, I think Amazon's product is going to be perceived as runner up to the iPad, while other Android devices will be perceived as the lower end.

Other Android manufacturers are probably going to start competing with Amazon's offer as well, lowering prices and cutting corners in the process.

<comment><USER52> I'm really interested to see how this plays out. From casual observation, I see a lot of people wanting a non-ipad tablet as their requirement, and the amazon one will fit the bill perfectly (cheaper, non-ipad, relatively hackable, is going to have a lasting presence as a product line - <USER2> touchpad/playbook).

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER54> The fact that you now have a sub-$80 e-reader seems to be getting overlooked in today's news... in some ways I think that's really the innovative part here, and what will drive a lot of high margin ebook sales for Amazon in the next few years.

</comment><comment><USER55> The interesting thing is that this will be probably the first successful Android tablet but Google will have absolutely zero benefits from its success. Actually, it might even hurt Google position in mobile/tablet market.

Two random examples:

The word Android was barely mentioned on Amazon site.

On device itself, the web and content to be consumed is showed Amazon.com but not thru Google search.

EDIT: Why is this comment downvoted? I'm kinda new on this hacker news and I'm under impression if I express opinion with a couple of examples supporting it that is not trolling... What kind of comment should be made to point out that it seems like Google will have zero benefits and even hurt it from this Android tablet?

<comment><USER56> I am not sure but your first sentence sounds a little bit trollish. I think the Galaxy Tab 8/10 the Xoom or the Eee Pad Transformer are quite successful and established in the market.

Yes Google does not directly benefit from the android fork amazon created but i think it is also a quite good and interesting example of the often called openness and freedom of Android. It is quite refreshing to see a big company using Android as the base and modifying it completely to their needs.

<comment><USER55> Galaxy Tab 8/10 the Xoom or the Eee Pad Transformer are the best selling Androids up to date but to call them successful is quite of a stretch.

For example, last week a Lenovo executive claimed that Samsung's Galaxy Tab sales were far lower than what Samsung vaguely stated: 20,000 actual sales, rather than two million ([http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2392422,00.asp#fbid=EJq...](http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2392422,00.asp#fbid=EJqX4HbEf2I)).

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER57> So I'm reading along... getting interested... sounds promising... purchase might be on the horizon...

 _Amazon has painted over the rough surfaces of Google's Android operating system_

Now I won't even consider buying it until the cyanogenmod port is in decent shape. Why do manufactures always do this to android? The custom UI looks nicer (arguable, roll with it), but always kill usability because they don't understand how to have their software play nice and _feel right_ on android. It might be better on the kindle fire because the biggest offenders I see are the dialer and text message app, but I won't hold my breath.

<comment><USER52> why do people get upset by this? Android is a nice baseline. Think of it as the tide that raises all ships. What's wrong with a manufacturer experimenting?

NB. I don't support lock downs or anything like that, of course. my point is that there's nothing wrong with them customizing and branching it off into something else. isn't that the whole point?

<comment><USER58> I agree with you, except that years of painful Windows crapware experience has taught me that manufacturers don't often do a very good job at "value adding", unless you define value as meddling pointlessly with things that work, or lining their own pockets through pre-installed junk software partnerships.

That said, Amazon have a solid reputation so I don't think any of that applies in this particular case.

<comment><USER52> its true, once you throw in windows stuff (especially wm6), this sounds terrible.

but the counter is that debian is really cool, but the ubuntu branch is a home run. so in conclusion… I dont know. but new is better than stagnate.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER59> Outside of the amazing marketing and stance that amazon holds, this really doesn't seem like much. I don't see a lot that my parents would get excited about at least, and if they aren't the market, I am not sure who is.

<comment><USER60> If it can web browse with Flash then (modulo the dead end hp touchpad) it's the cheapest tablet web browser that can play games on facebook. My wife is a long time Apple fan since she was a Graphic Designer, but she turned her nose up at the iPad due to lack of Flash and some specific games she wants to play on Facebook.

</comment></comment><comment> buff-a And it has a browser that renders on the cloud. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u7F_56WhHk&feature=playe...](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u7F_56WhHk&feature=player_embedded)

<comment><USER61> Isn't that what Opera does on their mobile platform?

<comment><USER62> Mostly correct. Opera servers compress pages before passing them along to the mobile device. [0]

[0] <http://www.opera.com/mobile/features/>

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER63> Expect Google to match or beat Amazon pricing for tablets RSN--especially given their acquisition of Motorola. There really is no money in Android, especially for OEMs without a content or advertising play.

</comment><comment><USER64> Exactly what is the differentiation between a tablet and e-reader? This thing is aimed squarely at the BN Nook Color. Why is it being compared to the much more expensive and feature-full iPad?

<comment><USER48> I think that the iPad comparisons are due to the content available (movies, tv, music) and especially the App Store. If you want to do anything with the Nook Color that's not included in the tin you need to root it. The kindle browser sounds nice too. I can see a lot of people who balk at the iPad's price tag snapping these up.

</comment></comment><comment><USER65> Anybody know if there are comprehensive specs anywhere? I can't find information about the resolution anywhere. Additionally, it looks like most sites thought it was going to cost $250.

</comment><comment><USER66> "There are two types of companies: those that work hard to charge customers more, and those that work hard to charge customers less. Both approaches can work. We are firmly in the second camp."

I've always had a lot of respect for Bezos and what he's done but this lowers my opinion of him. Not only is it a petty cheap shot, it's not even true (so does he not know somehow, or is he lying?). Most tablet makers were having a hard time competing with the iPad _on price_. It's incredibly cheap for what it does.

<comment><USER67> Maybe he was talking about this: [http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2011/08/999-ebooks- lawsuit/al...](http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2011/08/999-ebooks- lawsuit/all/1)

</comment></comment><comment><USER68> In the product page <http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0051VVOB2> the word Android appeared once only. Interesting.

<comment><USER69> I'm surprised the number isn't zero. From the Google strategic point of view this device is not Android.

<comment><USER70> Sure it is; if it succeeds it will encourage more app developers to target Android.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER71> Here are the specs on Amazon's site:

[http://www.amazon.com/Kindle-Color-Multi-touch-Display-Wi- Fi...](http://www.amazon.com/Kindle-Color-Multi-touch-Display-Wi- Fi/dp/B0051VVOB2)

</comment><comment><USER72> The product listing is up: <http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0051VVOB2>

</comment><comment><USER73> I wonder how many people who would have jumped at a $199 tablet already got in on the $99 HP TouchPad blowout and pass on the Fire.

</comment><comment><USER47> Kindle Touch is what I wanted..yay. Now, if only they would open up their KDK and give it useful API calls, I'll be happy.

<comment><USER74> My reaction to the "Kindle Touch" concept: Ewwww, fingerprints all over my precious books. I can't help agreeing with muxxa.

<comment><USER47> The e-ink screen doesn't have fingerprint problems the way tablets/phones do. It's more plastic, no gloss..(of course, I'm assuming the Touch is still like that).

<comment><USER26> I haven't had fingerprint issues at all on my Nook v2 (which uses the same sort of screen and touch sensor), so I doubt it'll be worth worrying about on the Kindle Touch.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER75> I love that instead of trying to be everything to everyone (a la android/ipad) Amazon is aiming to be really good at a few things, and thus drive price down.

I'm not so interested in movies or ebooks, does anyone know of a tablet that just does email and web? and is cheaper because of it?

BTW, Silk browser seems like a bundle of awesome ideas

<comment><USER76> Well, everyone's definition of "cheaper" may vary, but the Chromebook seems okay to me: <http://amzn.to/q2FqQ9>

<comment><USER77> Hmm, interesting. A foldable tablet with a keyboard!

I think they might be onto something there.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER78> Funny how all of the e-ink kindles have 4:3 aspect ratio screens but the Fire is widescreen. It lends credibility to reports that it's based on a previously existing Android tablet design.

Amazon must realise it's sub-optimal, but now developers will be stuck supporting it even if they later release a 4:3 device.

<comment><USER79> Widescreen is the modus operandi for color screens any more. Video is widescreen now, and 4:3 screens are harder to come by. I doubt the Fire will ever be 4:3.

</comment></comment><comment><USER80> I want to buy one, but I now have no idea which one to buy. Is the only difference between the Kindle and the touch the fact that you can touch it? What about the keyboard...is that useful or no?

Buying a Fire so I can develop on it, but would also like something with e-ink, now that they are priced affordably.

<comment><USER81> I have the keyboard version (i.e. Kindle 3). The keyboard is hardly ever used. If I were to buy a new Kindle, I'd probably get the one with the 5-way controller. I don't think multitouch would really be that useful for reading books; your most common action will be "turn the page", which a physical button is just fine for.

<comment><USER80> Thanks for the feedback. I've also noticed the Kindle Keyboard and Fire seem to be the only ones without "special offers," which is interesting.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER82> I wonder if they are selling these at a loss? I can see it going down well in the XDA/Hacker community...

<comment><USER82> Weird - according to this [http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2393740,00.asp#fbid=rvU...](http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2393740,00.asp#fbid=rvUyoF1ILbc) it is running 2.3?

But they say they are not doing anything to prevent root - awesome!

<comment><USER83> This is what actually interests me, a rooted kindle fire. Only thing I care for is the hardware, I could not be less interested in amazons version of android though. Since I did not get a HP Tablet, this might be the next best thing to get a cheap tablet running a modded version of android.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER84> The price tags are awesome, but I'm worried that most of the content will be exclusive to U.S. residents.

</comment><comment><USER85> Does anyone know what Amazon's plans are for merging in the latest Android releases into their fork? It would be a real shame if it took off in an entirely new direction from this point on. A shame for me, because I don't want to develop for a brand new OS.

</comment><comment><USER86> I want to read the news story written five years in the future about how the rapid growth of e-readers/tablets affects literacy and reading rates across multiple socioeconomic scales. I have no clue what it would say, but am pretty sure it will be written.

</comment><comment><USER87> How much does their Android experience differ from the norm? How wide is my app selection?

</comment><comment><USER88> Someone else from outside the US thinking about pre-ordering it?

On one hand it's just 127 pounds or 147 euros, but on the other I don't know what kind of experience those using it outside of the US will have: no Cloud Drive, no movies/tv shows, etc etc.

<comment><USER31> Amazon Prime is available from Amazon UK.

</comment></comment><comment><USER89> The picture I saw seems to make it the same size and shape as the B&N Nook Color.

</comment><comment><USER90> YES! I think with this, Android finally becomes appealing to me. I just wasn't going to spend money on crappy Dell, Samsung or Acer tablets. I've been happy with my e-ink Kindle, now for $199 I'll happily buy Fire.

</comment><comment><USER91> I use an Ipad2 and I use it to read books and as a planner. But a tablet for $200 that can do the same?, I don't see why this wouldn't be a hit with people that don't care about details.

</comment><comment><USER19> > 8GB internal. That's enough for 80 apps, plus either 10 movies or 800 songs > or 6,000 books.

Anyone know how 8 gigs enough for 10 movies? The quality can't be great. Can these things plug into a tv?

<comment><USER92> Well it is a 7in. screen so that could possibly reduce the file size needed.

And they're using the Kindle WhisperSync for use with compatible TVs, PCs, etc. ([http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html/?nodeId=...](http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html/?nodeId=200775230))

</comment></comment><comment><USER93> Lack of cameras (one in, one out,) and mic really surprise me.

</comment><comment><USER94> Now it doesnt have the most appealing difference the regular kindle had over iPad. With it's IPS display it will be now just as impossible to read in bright sunlight.

</comment><comment><USER95> Hold on, brazilian fellas... One day the Kindle will be sold on Brazil, and we'll no longer have to buy the ones smuggled from Paraguai from that famous auction site.

</comment><comment><USER96> Unfortunately Kindle Fire is only available for shipping in the US. I think the Amazon account linked to it might also need a credit card with a US billing address

</comment><comment><USER97> Is anyone else more interested in Silk than the Kindle Fire?

<comment><USER98> Yes, I'm far more interested in Silk. It's a caching layer over the entire web. That is nuts. I'd love to know more about the internals of it. Do they only grab static files or is their some dynamic content caching? What's the threshold of requests before moving a page/site into Silk? Is there a way to opt out of using it if you have privacy concerns (sending every one of your requests through their system first will be a big issue for a lot of people). This may not seem that groundbreaking since Opera has already done this, but Amazon seem to be doing it on a much grander scale.

</comment></comment><comment><USER99> I'm not even sure if this is possible but I would pay a lot of money for a color screen that can switch to e-ink and back depending on what I want to do.

</comment><comment><USER100> All of this while KDK is still in beta. And from the looks of it it will never escape it.

<http://www.amazon.com/kdk>

</comment><comment><USER101> Is there a live video feed of this Kindle event at all?

<comment><USER102> Here's some blogs:

[http://live.thisismynext.com/Event/Amazon_Tablet_event_live_...](http://live.thisismynext.com/Event/Amazon_Tablet_event_live_blog)

[http://www.engadget.com/2011/09/28/live-from-amazons- tablet-...](http://www.engadget.com/2011/09/28/live-from-amazons-tablet-event- in-nyc/)

If there's a video feed let us know!

<comment><USER10> Sadly it seems they've said they're not providing one.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER103> Am I the only android developer torn over whether the fire makes signing the one sided Amazon app store developer agreement worth it? Tough choice.

</comment><comment><USER104> I have a serious question. Will I be able to use/read instapaper on this device? This is a big deal to me.

<comment><USER105> Set up Instapaper to deliver to your Kindle automatically on a schedule [1], and you're golden.

[1] <http://www.instapaper.com/user/kindle>

</comment></comment><comment><USER106> Can this be used for Android application development? Can I install .apk files through the android sdk?

</comment><comment><USER107> The big question for me: does it support sideloading? If so, I'll definitely be purchasing one.

</comment><comment><USER108> Interested to see what type of web browser they ship on these new devices.

<comment><USER109> I was checking out the specs on the Fire at Amazon's product page and got to the bottom, where they talk about Amazon Silk -- the 'split browser' used on the Fire.

It appears to offload intensive processing to Amazon EC2 instances.

Very cool stuff and, to me, more newsworthy than the launch of a tablet. I'd like to hear more details on Silk.

More info (and video from Silk developers): [http://amazonsilk.wordpress.com/2011/09/28/introducing- amazo...](http://amazonsilk.wordpress.com/2011/09/28/introducing-amazon-silk/)

<comment><USER108> Interesting. Found some more details here:

<http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0051VVOB2#silk>

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER110> Looks pretty much perfect, provided they support bluetooth keyboards.

<comment> Apple-Guy No volume buttons, no bluetooth, no mention of battery life when streaming.

</comment></comment><comment><USER111> one thing i didnt understand.. this fire thingy has an eink display or not? and what about the digital library of books someone was talking about?

</comment><comment><USER112> <http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0051VVOB2>

Wow, no mention of android in tech specs???</comment>


Only 1 in 5 people with a penicillin allergy actually had penicillin allergy - <AUTHOR> https://academic.oup.com/jac/advance-article-abstract/doi/10.1093/jac/dky575/5307963#.XF3VSKeIfi9.twitter <comment><USER2> In case you're wondering how people get falsely labeled as having a penicillin allergy, I have an anecdote: My grandad with a "penicillin allergy" was recently treated with a high dose of penicillin for 4 days without any problem. The hospital didn't have access to his medical records and also overlooked what we wrote on the admission forms, and went ahead with penicillin as the best treatment. I asked my grandad about this allergy. He said that 40 years ago he had an upset stomach after taking penicillin and the doctor told him he was allergic. He's been repeating that information to doctors and pharmacists for 40 years.

<comment><USER3> I've been told to tell people I have a penicillin allergy.

I've never had penicillin in my life. My sister had a bad reaction when she was really young and the doctor decided it was safer to just declare I have one too.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> I had a terrible reaction to penicillin during a bout of mononucleosis. I've read that it's not uncommon to have a negative reaction to it when you have mono, and that it doesn't indicate an allergy, so I'm not sure I actually have an allergy. I never had a problem with it prior to that. It was such a bad reaction that I don't want to take a chance, though. Every few years, I explain this to a doctor, and when I give them the details, they usually respond along the lines of "yeaaaaah, let's keep avoiding that." One of these days I'd like to get a controlled allergy test for it, but meanwhile, it gets listed as my only allergy to anything.

<comment><USER5> All the doctors I meet are generally VERY risk averse. I explain something similar and they're quite happy to keep avoiding it.

<comment><USER6> I'm pretty happy to prescribe a medication if a patient wants to give it a go, as long as the previous reaction wasn't anaphylaxis.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> I've submitted this with the title "Only 1 in 5 people with a penicillin allergy actually had a penicillin allergy". The title in the journal is "Implementation of a pharmacist-led penicillin allergy de-labelling service in a public hospital | Journal of Antimicrobial Chemotherapy | Oxford Academic".

</comment><comment><USER7> Huh. 98% of those 'de-labelled' went on to have no adverse reaction to penicillin.

So, what about the 2%? Small study - was that just one person? What was the reaction? Did they die? It's important to understand the cost of a 'false negative' here.

At the same time understanding that, NOT treating folks mis-labelled with an allergy has a cost as well.

</comment><comment><USER8> Having a allergic reaction once - from a disrupted / suppressed immune system - and having an actual allergy are two different conditions.

When the majority of the masses falsely believe antibiotics are something you take for a flu or a cold, then educating them on fluctuations in immunity is probably too much to expect.

<comment><USER6> Why would a suppressed immune system increase risk of allergic reaction? I'd have thought it to be the opposite.

<comment><USER8> I sit corrected. Thanks. The arc of my point was, the immune system isn't static. I should have done better. Again, thanks.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> What's worse is that these false penicillin allergies have precluded the use of similar drugs such as cephalosporins, despite a very low cross reactivity, and worse drugs such as vancomycin were used as substitutes. Thankfully, increased attention will help to decrease overuse.

</comment><comment><USER10> Never summarize as "allergic" to a medical professional; they need the details.

I indicate on medical forms that Vicodin gives me waking nightmare hallucinations, because it doesn't kill me like an allergy, but they should be aware of what they're in for if they do select it. (This straightforward disclosure has encouraged many years of good decisions by doctors who, I suspect, would rather not have my screams of terror interfering with their work :)

<comment><USER11> I'm confused, why do they need the details? You would have had the same result (no prescription) if you had simply declared yourself allergic.

"Allergic" == "don't prescribe, on pain of death".

<comment><USER12> In his case, the side effects are hallucinations. Perhaps he's OK with them being prescribed if the alternative is worse.

<comment><USER10> As a highly intelligent patient, hallucinating nightmares put the hospital risk from me being highly intelligent and hallucinating. This benefits no one to call an allergy.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Nice. I've always had to fill in penicillin allergy, but have been skeptical. Now, more reasons to be skeptical.

<comment><USER14> Yeah same here. My GP recently told me to check the symptoms with family (I was very young so I didn't remember) and get administered a dose to test the allergy now if the symptoms were pretty mild. Haven't got around to it yet but I'm thinking I will soon.

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> The US and Western Europe are extremely neurotic. All it takes is the mention that an allergy is possible to have for 20% of people to start claiming that they have it.

<comment><USER2> Like the millions of parents who now think their children have peanut allergies for flimsy reasons.</comment></comment>


Test Question Flunks - <AUTHOR> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303513404577356113609677208.html?KEYWORDS=pinkwater

<comment><AUTHOR> Nice discussion of how sometimes it's stupid to insist there is some clear answer.</comment>


Linux Torvalds Shortlisted for 2012 Millennium Technology Prize - <AUTHOR> http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/254085/linux_torvalds_shortlisted_for_2012_millennium_technology_prize.html

<comment><USER2> Who's this Linux Torvalds fella?</comment>


Dear Tech Workers, U.S. Service Members Need Your Help - <AUTHOR> https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/28/opinion/military-war-tech-us.html <comment><USER2> [https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/blog/2011/10/21/preside...](https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/blog/2011/10/21/president- obama-has-ended-war-iraq)</comment>


Inner ear implant uses biological battery to self-charge - <AUTHOR> http://arstechnica.com/science/2012/11/inner-ear-implant-uses-biological-battery-to-self-charge/

<comment><USER2> _> "A very futuristic view is that maybe we will be able to extract energy from individual cells using similar designs," she says._

Heh, The Matrix (sorry, had to say it)</comment>


10 times faster with 50 nodes: Querying Presto+AWS: 44secs. Presto+GCP: 4secs - <AUTHOR> http://tech.marksblogg.com/50-node-presto-cluster-dataproc.html <comment><AUTHOR> Disclaimer: I am Felipe Hoffa ([https://twitter.com/felipehoffa](https://twitter.com/felipehoffa)) and I work for Google Cloud.

Mark Lit is running a really impressive series of posts benchmarking big data platforms. So far BigQuery has been the simplest and fastest one, but Google Cloud Dataproc is really shining in his latest benchmarks.

The head of AWS EMR is working on this case too ([https://twitter.com/rahulpathak/status/709824269065125888](https://twitter.com/rahulpathak/status/709824269065125888)), so it will be fascinating to follow how these benchmarks evolve.</comment>


Bali and COVID19 – an involuntary experiment in epidemiology and immunology - <AUTHOR> https://firstname.lastname@example.com/bali-covid19-an-involuntary-experiment-in-epidemiology-immunology-a62485ce5924 <comment><USER2> I talk to many people in Bali on a daily basis and I don't agree with any of the armchair virology in this post. Certainly the actions taken by the government there do not support the assessment either. Starting April 24 to July 1 they are prohibiting travel outside the city (Denpasar).

I don't think what you have is an island of super healthy people and Americans/Europeans lands of weak people. What you have is an island of people who do not flood their doctors and hospitals (of which not many exist an no where near Western standards) for sickness. Those that are bad enough to go there's lack of testing and therefore a small amount of confirmed cases.

In America and Europe you have a population trained to engage healthcare services early and often. Almost as if we're nations of hypochondriacs. Healthcare services also always assume the worst case as well. Any respiratory distress is assumed covid19 until proven otherwise. With the known false negatives in the test it's still assumed covid19 based on symptoms. Unattributed respiratory issues at time of death are being flagged as covid19 related by order of the CDC.

What you're seeing a culture difference in both the people and governments. My friends son in Bali was experiencing respiratory issues and was taken to the hospital. Was put on breathing assistance but no test was done. They were released and it was listed as not covid19 but all the symptoms were there. In America or Europe it would have been classified different.</comment>


ChaosKey: a Hardware True Random Number Generator That Attaches via USB - <AUTHOR> http://altusmetrum.org/ChaosKey/ <comment><USER2> These tokens, like the OneRNG, are quite interesting from an engineering point of view, but as a developer all you ever need to know or do about secure randomness is to use /dev/urandom and nothing else (unless it's a wrapper for /dev/urandom).

Not /dev/random, not rand(), not something you found in a library. Just bytes, read from /dev/urandom.

Here is my CCC talk about why that is, which includes everything from kernel sources to authoritative quotes: [https://media.ccc.de/v/32c3-7441-the_plain_simple_reality_of...](https://media.ccc.de/v/32c3-7441-the_plain_simple_reality_of_entropy)

EDIT: the talk is in English, but you have to select it from the video UI, in the bottom right.

<comment><USER3> I wonder what to use on Windows. Because sometimes you maybe need robust randomness on a popular desktop.

<comment><USER4> CryptGenRandom [1] would be the equivalent.

[1] [https://msdn.microsoft.com/en- us/library/windows/desktop/aa3...](https://msdn.microsoft.com/en- us/library/windows/desktop/aa379942\(v=vs.85\).aspx)

<comment><USER5> Or rand_s(), which wraps CryptGenRandom() with a more convenient API:

[https://msdn.microsoft.com/en- us/library/sxtz2fa8.aspx](https://msdn.microsoft.com/en- us/library/sxtz2fa8.aspx)

<comment><USER6> RtlGenRandom[1] is probably the most convenient way on Windows. Does require certain definitions when including the header file for it[2] but otherwise does not require a CSP context and can generate any number of CSPRNG bytes.

[1] [https://msdn.microsoft.com/en- us/library/windows/desktop/aa3...](https://msdn.microsoft.com/en- us/library/windows/desktop/aa387694\(v=vs.85\).aspx)

[2] [https://boringssl.googlesource.com/boringssl/+/master/crypto...](https://boringssl.googlesource.com/boringssl/+/master/crypto/rand/windows.c#26)

<comment><USER5> You're right. Calling RtlGenRandom() directly is probably the best option. I forgot that rand_s() calls RtlGenRandom(), not CryptGenRandom(). Plus both Firefox and Chrome ran into rare crashes when some bad third-party software (antivirus or malware) injects advapi32.dll hooks, causing rand_s() to crash when it tries to load advapi32.dll in order to call RtlGenRandom().

Firefox bugs: [https://bugzil.la/1240589](https://bugzil.la/1240589), [https://bugzil.la/1167248](https://bugzil.la/1167248), [https://bugzil.la/694344](https://bugzil.la/694344)

Chrome bug: [https://crbug.com/348400](https://crbug.com/348400)

<comment><USER6> You can also specify the number of bytes you want with RtlGenRandom. rand_s only gives an unsigned int per call. Not a huge deal but you may be able to cut down on some function call overhead depending on how stuff gets inlined/optimized.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> I noticed that this hasn't been mentioned yet, so I'll bring it up here. While RF-based noise generators can be influenced by outside sources, using an RTL- SDR with [https://github.com/pwarren/rtl- entropy](https://github.com/pwarren/rtl-entropy) can be a great way to get environmental RF noise.

In actual reality, the generator won't be influenced, because it will require a strong signal, close by, likely transmitting illegally on the frequency you are listening to (of course, the attacker would need to know the frequency you're tuned to). Simple monitoring tools and scripts can be used to test the quality of the generator output. If the quality of the randomness begins to fail, as would happen with deliberate RF interference, then the script would stop outputting bits, and alert the administrator. Or, even better, switch to a different frequency, chosen at random by the kernel CSPRNG.

What's great about using the RTL-SDR as an RNG, is these devices are cheap (about $20) and can output 3 MiBps, which vastly out performs any USB HWRNG that I have personally tested for the value (bits per second per dollar).

FWIW, random.org uses RF noise as the basis for delivering random numbers to the Internet.

Anyway, FYI.

</comment><comment><USER8> If you're going to have a blackbox (the SOC), you might as well get a BitBabbler as they have better design for noise and the black box is dumbest USB chip they could find.

[http://www.bitbabbler.org/index.html](http://www.bitbabbler.org/index.html)

Needs more peer review and independent testing anyway. It's designed so you can do it yourself with a logic analyzer or whatever.

EDIT: I should add that, quite interesting to me, BitBabbler folks are building this for people who already know why a TRNG or analog source is important. They're not interested in evangelizing or winning anyone over: just people already wanting one buying it and preferably analyzing it to give them feedback on esoteric failure modes they haven't thought of. Only contact them if you're serious.

<comment><USER9> This looks cool... but no prices... Are these super expensive or did nerds design their site :)

<comment><USER8> They were in the $100-200 range IIRC. Funny thing about your comment on design:

"If you want to know more about the company where this all started, the Voicetronix website can tell you all about that, in all its only slightly updated since the mid 90's glory. We're engineers who build great hardware and provide exceptional support for it ... Web 2.0 bling isn't quite our favourite thing to spend time on :) " (source: bottom of Buy page)

Haha. Anyway, I tried to find price but couldn't. If you want one, just email them at the address in BitBabbler Buy tab for a price quote. That's how they typically work. Here's the company if you're curious:

[http://www.voicetronix.com/](http://www.voicetronix.com/)

Their differentiator, per their lead engineer, was quality hardware with free as in speech software and custom service/support. I found that interesting esp given it's a 90's era business that predates the OSS HW fads. A model worth copying perhaps.

Note: I haven't hands on reviewed a BitBabbler or their other products. Not endorsing them. Just like what I saw and heard vs what I usually see and hear. Suggesting others review, test, or use the products to see if they live up.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Curious how exactly this generates truly random numbers (and didn't see an explanation in the link). Can anyone explain this in technically-inclined laymen's terms?

fwiw, I'm a programmer but don't know anything about random number generation (other than I'm not supposed to rely on the built-in random functions of most languages/libraries for security purposes because they're not truly random).

<comment><USER11> We think that cosmic background radiation and certain subatomic mechanics are truly random. If you attach extra hardware to a computer, you can observe these and send a stream of bits to the computer.

You don't usually want to use truly random numbers for cryptography though; /dev/random is more appropriate. I've never understood why, exactly, but that's generally the advice.

<comment><USER12> You can use "truly" random numbers for cryptography. /dev/random is not recommended (except for perhaps long-term keys if you're worried about the randomness algorithms having a vulnerability), use /dev/urandom.

<comment><USER13> > except for perhaps long-term keys

On most systems, urandom and random are the exact same thing. Only Linux does this weird "blocking random" thing, based on some weird estimate of "running out of entropy" which is not an actual thing.

(u)random is powered by a CSPRNG which is seeded by "truly random numbers" gathered from multiple hardware sources.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> Another project is TrueRNG. They provide a small USB device, and a more expensive, larger TrueRNG Pro device, via [http://ubld.it/](http://ubld.it/)

</comment><comment><USER15> Noise-source based random number generators can be vulnerable to interference. If there's a radio transmitter nearby, the RF may add an input to the noise. An RF source with a strong carrier will add a periodic value. Not good.

Radiation sources really are random. You get a nice strong signal from each decay sensed, and the time between those events is random.

<comment><USER7> Radioactive decay is slow, slow, slow. There are much better performing sources of randmness, such as beam splitting.

Further, not all noise is RF-based. Thermal noise, for example, is not influenced by RF intereferrence.

<comment><USER16> _Radioactive decay is slow, slow, slow._

Here's a cheap way to generate 800 bits per second from radioactive decay. [https://www.fourmilab.ch/hotbits/](https://www.fourmilab.ch/hotbits/)

Why aren't 800 honest-to-goodness random bits per second enough for all practical purposes? If you need more than that, you should be playing in the big leagues, where using a little USB fob is not the answer!

<comment><USER7> _Why aren 't 800 honest-to-goodness random bits per second enough for all practical purposes?_

For seeding the system CSPRNG, that's fine. For securely destroying data, such as wiping hard drives, or creating underlying noise for encrypted filesystems, 800 Bps is going to take you years to work through a 4 TB hard drive.

<comment><USER16> _800 Bps is going to take you years to work through a 4 TB hard drive_

But you don't need to do that. You simply take 256 bits and use them as an AES key. You then generate a stream of bits and write that to disk. Reading the disk afterward is equivalent to breaking AES. Or take Bernstein's advice and use an even better stream cipher. [https://cr.yp.to/streamciphers/why.html](https://cr.yp.to/streamciphers/why.html)

And even if you re-key every 1 GB (just for grins), you're still hardly using any random bits at all.

OTOH check out this comment elsewhere in this thread. [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11560417](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11560417)

IDQuantique sells a product that purportedly generates millions of random bits per second. If I were gambling at a casino, I'd feel more comfortable with that than with randomness from an AES stream.

Yeah, I know I'm thinking irrationally. But I'm sure I'm not the only one.

<comment><USER7> _But you don 't need to do that. You simply take 256 bits and use them as an AES key. You then generate a stream of bits and write that to disk. Reading the disk afterward is equivalent to breaking AES._

Completely agreed. I've already mentioned in this post about only using the Linux CSPRNG to seed a userspace CSPRNG, because the Linux CSPRNG is horrendously slow, due to its ad-hoc design. However, if the Linux CSPRNG was AES-128 using the standard CTR_DRBG, with AES-NI, it could go north of 2 GiBps without breaking a sweat, keeping clean random.c code (it already ships aes.h), and it's backtracking resistant.

However, if you're going to spend good money for hardware producing random values, at least for me, I'm going to want the best bang for my buck. If you look at [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_hardware_random_...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_hardware_random_number_generators), you can spend $35 for the WaywardGeek "Infinite Noise RNG", which outputs 300 Kbps, or spend $24 for an RTL-SDR dongle and get about 2.8 MiBps. The value of bits per dollar is much higher with the RTL-SDR than the WaywardGeek. This is considerably cheaper than getting a radioactive sample, coupled with a Geiger counter.

 _IDQuantique sells a product that purportedly generates millions of random bits per second. If I were gambling at a casino, I 'd feel more comfortable with that than with randomness from an AES stream. Yeah, I know I'm thinking irrationally._

Yeah, that is irrational. The problem with most TRNGs is that their output is biased. As a casino operator, I might be interested if the bias benefits my casino, but I would also need to prove to regulators that I'm not cheating the public. Personally, I'd err on the side of caution when it comes to the law.

So either I would whiten the output with a cryptographic primitive (John von Neumann debiasing is too costly, losing at least 1/2 the bits), or just write a userspace CSPRNG, and get the throughput you'll need for the demand. I could then constantly rekey/rseed the generator with the TRNG if I was tinfoil-hat- paranoid.

In either case, TRNG or CSPRNG, you'll want exceptional throughput for your casino. Which brings us back to another example of which 800 bps just isn't going to cut it. :)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> Has anyone done any cryptographically analysis with these things?

I'd love to get my hands on one of these and do some statistics on a lot of data pulled off of these.

To be honest, I think that at certain controlled temperatures, I'd bet you could start to weight numbers for prediction if you are trying to break crypto keys generated by these.

<comment><USER18> Here's a very old (1997) examination of 3 devices: [http://www.robertnz.net/true_rng.html](http://www.robertnz.net/true_rng.html)

I see a few hardware RNGs, and they're usually uncased. I think I'd want it in a good quality shielded case.

<comment><USER17> I hate to make anyone feel old, but I'm as old as this study. Does this information still hold true today?

I'd wonder what big data analysis of this data would show us (IE occurrences of certain samples of 1 TB of data polled).

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> Does anyone know how this compares to the hardware random number generators built into most computers?

</comment><comment><USER20> Looks great! So how do I _buy_ one? Is it still in development?

</comment><comment><USER21> If those kind of devices interest you, I'm quite intrigued by the IDQuantique ones that are based on quantum physics to generate randomness. They have a USB product that has a random stream of 4Mbits/sec and is used by lotteries and gambling sites.

[http://www.idquantique.com/random-number- generation/quantis-...](http://www.idquantique.com/random-number- generation/quantis-random-number-generator/)

<comment><USER22> Intel has a patent on a TRNG that has a throughput of 2 Gbps+. They published a paper on its operation in JSSC a while back [1]. It passes all NIST RNG tests and is PVT tolerant. Too bad it's patented...

[1]: [http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/articleDetails.jsp?arnumber=6...](http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/articleDetails.jsp?arnumber=6339068)

</comment></comment><comment><USER23> Would have been nice if they posted some of the output of the RNG's as well as the results from some tests on the randomness of the output like Die hard[1]:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diehard_tests](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diehard_tests)

</comment><comment><USER24> Is there any reason we don't have hardware RNG in modern CPUs/MB? It sounds like an obvious feature to have as a standard, when we think of the efforts required to create a decent software pseudo RNG, and the fact that crypto is absolutely everywhere.

<comment><USER25> [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RdRand](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RdRand)

Choice bits:

>> RDRAND is available in Ivy Bridge processors

Theodore Ts'o:

>> Relying solely on the hardware random number generator which is using an implementation sealed inside a chip which is impossible to audit is a BAD idea.

</comment></comment><comment><USER26> well, it makes a lot of man in the middle : the HW USB susbsystem, the USB driver, the OS, the driver or the electronic doing the interface. Plus it makes a lot of electromagnetic vulnerabilities (reading/influencing with a magnetic field)

A purely paranoid person would really prefer something with an antenna (to get some noise by detection), some RLC, a defective/chaotic oscillator on the dye of an a SOC that makes it embedded and you can verify by looking with a microscope that you shield in a Faraday cage.

And no, deciphering logic of a microchip with a microscope is not that hard ; almost anyone can do it with a tad of training and some education.

</comment><comment><USER27> Good project.

A question: Is there value in cryopto-signing the random numbers this emits ?

</comment><comment><USER28> These are awesome but we need vps's to add these

<comment><USER12> Why? Once /dev/urandom is seeded, you can use it for an unlimited amount.

<comment><USER28> That's not a trng

<comment><USER12> Not philosophically random, but practically random (i.e. impossible for an attacker to predict the values).

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER29> "truly random" is an oxymoron, folks

<comment><USER7> I don't think so. In the terms of "random that does not follow a known deterministic algorithm or formula", both chaotic sources like lightning strikes, and quantum states, like photon spin, can be so random, that for all definitions of "truly random", they fit the bill.</comment></comment>


Tiny T. rex fossil discovery startles scientists - <AUTHOR> http://www.cnn.com/2009/TECH/science/09/17/tiny.t-rex.dinosaur.discovered/index.html?eref=igoogle_cnn <comment><USER2> > "about 9 feet tall and weighed about 143 pounds."

that doesn't seem right. maybe the trex still had bird-like bones? it's quite a muscular animal...maybe it means head to tail rather than height, but that still seems awfully light. maybe it's the short arms.</comment>


Rummige - Community for sharing items with your friends - <AUTHOR>

Hi guys, I've been working on a startup for a little while and have just hit the stage where we really need to test our assumptions, just so it's not just a waste of time!
I'll start with what I consider to be crux of the website (including its value proposition, etc, etc) and then, if you want, i'll send through the URL.
Our startup is called Rummige.
On Rummige, you can build a community for sharing items with your friends. In terms of how it works, the easiest way to understand it is probably by thinking freecycle.org, but social.
Items are essentially transacted on the basis of 'reasons.' That is, one user gives the other user a reason why he or she should have the item. There is absolutely no restriction as to what a reason might entail - it could involve the telling of a convincing story, the arrangement of a swap, or a person may give his or her item to someone just because they are friends (or know about each other and their interests.) Our assumption is that this is attractive because the scope of what you could get from a transaction is much greater than just money. It also has the whole community vibe going for it, and, in a sense, you're making and growing relationships that may serve you well in the future. In addition, by involving your friends, the experience becomes a svpply.com for repurposing items.
It's also localised. Our assumption is that this is attractive because it alleviates the hassle of postage and shipping and also adds to the community feel. ie. people can actually meet in person when items are dropped off/picked up.
Your thoughts on what I've written would be invaluable, given objective feedback is the best way to go! I do see value in a concept such as this, especially following the global recession when people are trying to strike a balance between saving money and staying satisfied.
I can link you to a version we're currently testing if you're interested!
Thanks so much in advance, James. <comment><USER2> hey james, I'm very interested in setting up something like this at my work. Can I get access to the version you're testing?</comment>


The best 1 billion $ Samsung ever spent on marketing - <AUTHOR> https://plus.google.com/109374849138720664008/posts/HakhykJFQvM

<comment><USER2> Dupe: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4433011>

</comment><comment><USER3> Does every repost of the original also need to be reposted to HN?

</comment><comment><USER4> These fairytale conversations "overheard" at starbucks never actually took place.

</comment><comment><USER5> I don't think so. This is simplistic tripe.</comment>


Ask HN: Roommates, apartments, etc [San Francisco] - <AUTHOR>

Hi HN,
I'm going to be in San Francisco for at least 3 months, hopefully longer, yet as someone who's never been there, I've got no idea about accommodation.
I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions on finding a place, finding roommates, hacker houses, etc. Basically I've got no idea about the best locations, the options, etc, all I know is that I want a place close to 923 Market St!
Thanks in advance. <comment><USER2> High level advice: \- If you want a place that's walking distance, stick to the lowered number streets in that area. The Mid-Market area (5th and Market to 9th and Market) is not so great at night. That's why SF has given tax breaks for companies to move there.

\- SoMa is not too far a walk from there. It's all newer developments, so they tend to be more expensive, especially as you move closer to the Caltrain station. But they're nicer apartments with amenities like an in building gym and if you're near Caltrain you can get down to San Mateo or Palo Alto on a train. Palo Alto + Stanford may be a fun day trip.

\- You're very close to bart and muni there, so really the entire city and east bay are only a 15 minute commute away. If you're in the city for a summer, the Mission and Dolores Park area are awesome if you can snag a place. Great character, cheap food, some higher end food, and a neighborhood feel to lots of it.

</comment><comment><USER3> This is something I'm also looking into, but I visited San Francisco this past September for a few days so have a sense of transportation and the the overall area.

Planning on moving my start-up there early next year and would like to find a room mate or a Hacker House that I can crash at from time to time.

</comment><comment><USER4> try this : <http://www.housingmaps.com/>

<comment><USER5> Or any of these sites:

<http://www.padmapper.com/>

<http://www.walkscore.com/apartments/>

<http://hotpads.com/>

<http://mapitat.com/>

At least some of them allow limiting your search to places that are reachable by mass transit within a certain amount of time.</comment></comment>


Ask HN: What's the best way to improve pitch deck? - <AUTHOR>

Any tips for improving investor pitch deck? <comment><USER2> Hi,

In order to improve your pitch deck you need to evaluate your business from the standpoint of an investor.

If you were investing into a company and handing over money what are the things you would want to see?

A passionate team with a track record of executing. An innovative solution which solves a real pain point for customers in a way which is differentiated from competitors. This competitive advantage would preferably be defensible. Hopefully it is in a large market which has capacity for exponential growth. A detailed go to market and customer acquisition strategy is also vitally important, cash is king in startups so traction with paying customers not only buys you time, but also demonstrates to the investor you have somewhat validated and tested the idea you're pitching.

It's also important to convey all this in your deck in a manner which is compelling and concise. Clarity is vital when pitching investors so be specific and don't fill your slides up with a bunch of boring text. Use visuals to convey concepts where you can. Here's a template you can use to help with the structure of your deck. It's based on the recommendations of Sequoia Capital [http://deckworks.co/investor-pitch-deck- template/](http://deckworks.co/investor-pitch-deck-template/)

Hope this helps.</comment>


Drug companies are exploiting rare mutations - <AUTHOR> http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-07-22/these-superhumans-are-real-and-their-dna-could-be-worth-billions <comment><USER2> The key idea is that genetic variants that have strong phenotypic effect through variation in just one gene are mostly rare, and genetic variants influencing most human traits of interest (heart disease risk, cancer risk, physical stature, alcoholism, IQ score, etc.) act in combination with many other gene variants, each of which alone has weak effect. This is the consistent finding of genome-wide association studies (GWASes) as those studies grow in sample size and in sophistication of the statistical analyses applied to them. Most gene variants in the human genome have nil effect on phenotype or such a weak effect that the influence of that one gene is undetectable even in GWASes with hundreds of thousands of subjects. So the word "rare" in the submitted article title (from the article description in the original article metadata) is the key word here.

These rare gene defects with strong effect on phenotype are likely to be helpful in illuminating the biological pathways involved in individuals developing those phenotypes, if the individuals are studied thoughtfully in clinical studies and especially if genetic engineering in an animal model can replicate the effect. But many of the diseases and disorders that you and I most care about will not be understood through this kind of research, because those diseases and disorders are already known to be polygenic (influenced by many genes, each of small effect) and multifactorial (subject to influence both from genes and from various environmental factors, some of which are very poorly understood). Identical (monozygotic) twins differ for many traits of interest, showing that influences other than genetic influences still make a difference in human development.

</comment><comment><USER3> I'm super surprised that the fellow who cannot feel pain was able to make it through childhood without very serious injuries. As the article mentioned things as simple and teething would be a very different experience without pain.

<comment><USER4> He did not (well unless you consider the threshold to serious injuries at losing a limb I guess). Looking up Steven Pete and assuming there probably aren't two 30-something pain-insensitive Steven Pete out there brings up [http://www.thefactsofpainlesspeople.com/Steve.html](http://www.thefactsofpainlesspeople.com/Steve.html) which notes that "Visits to the Emergency Room and long hospital stays were quite frequent for my brother and I." and a number of other injuries-related notes.

They were lucky, apparently their parents (both he and his brother are pain- insensitive) were highly aware of the risks, observant and diligent, and drilled them on safety especially with respect to infections.

The article notes that Steven Pete's congenital analgesia was discovered after his parents found him "chewing on [his] tongue" which I assume is to be interpreted more or less literally (though at 4 months old hopefully without much damage)

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> This is a lot of donated information. Would it be beneficial to have 10x or 100x more people?

"Genentech is collaborating with Silicon Valley startup 23andMe, which has sold its $99 DNA spit kits to 1 million consumers who want to find out more about their health and family history—more than 80 percent have agreed to have their data used for research"</comment>


Renters Have Shorter Commutes Than Homeowners: Trulia Report - <AUTHOR> https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2016/03/trulia-renting-shorter-commute-homeowners/472755/ <comment><USER2> > Renters endured longer commutes than homeowners in San Francisco, Detroit, > and Cleveland.

I'm surprised there's working homeowners in San Francisco.</comment>


Tell PG: Thank you for removing the political stories - <AUTHOR> For anyone wishing to discuss these events, they are on the front page at both digg.com and reddit.com, not to mention the comments section at countless mainstream news sites. To quote the HN guidelines:<p>"If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic."<p>(http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html) <comment><USER2> It's because HN doesn't have to show pgview growth to investors or sell it to advertisers that they're able to make a decision like this that ultimately improves the quality of the site (probably at the expense of drives of traffic)

<comment><USER3> I'd even say hopefully at the expense of driving up traffic.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Agreed.

As long as there's not a tech angle, I'm happy to see them off the site. Events like what's going on in Egypt are important, but it's not why I come here.

<comment><USER5> Me neither, but you get a better class of conversation here than elsewhere. I don't object to political stories as long as they are (a) rare and (b) important ones.

<comment><USER6> Everyone thinks their personal pet political viewpoint, cause, issue, or ill- informed rant is important.

If you allow some 'important' off-topic posts, you need to either have an externally-imposed decision on what's important (ie, a moderator who uses their idea of 'important'), or accept that you're going to see a stream of 'important' posts that you don't care about.

As a community maintainer and moderator in the past, it's an issue I've struggled to get people to understand, as they all assumed that their pet issue was important enough that it didn't matter it was off-topic.

<comment><USER5> > _Everyone thinks their personal pet political viewpoint, cause, issue, or > ill-informed rant is important._

It's not points-of-view that I'm describing as important, it's certain news stories.

Does anyone doubt that the Egyptian revolution is a very important story in world affairs?

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> See, I get jaded about this place and then this happens.

<3 I'll never leave you HN <3</comment>


Overwhelmingly Large Telescope - <AUTHOR> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overwhelmingly_Large_Telescope

<comment><USER2> What the... I tought [http://xkcd.com/1294/](http://xkcd.com/1294/) was a joke.</comment>


Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups - <AUTHOR> http://blogs.wsj.com/venturecapital/2016/03/17/study-immigrants-founded-51-of-u-s-billion-dollar-startups/ <comment><USER2> A year ago the statement "Most high tech companies are founded by founded by First/2nd gen immigrants" was going around the various tech circles. In the thread at [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9085970](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9085970) I dug into the numbers and found that that is what we would expect from population statistics. That is, immigrants and non-immigrants are equally likely to start high tech companies.

This new analysis - and yes, I read the report - does not attempt to assess if the numbers are more or less than expected. If a company has 10 founders and only one is an immigrant then that counts as one of the companies founded by an immigrant.

Let's say that all 87 companies had 10 founders (which is obviously false, but I'm making a point about the limitation in the analysis), and of the 44 companies with an immigrant founder, all of them had only 1 immigrant founder. Then of the 870 founders, only 44 are immigrants, or 5%.

Immigrants make up about 13% of the US population. If only 5% of the founders are immigrants then that means immigrants are significantly less likely to start $1B valued companies than non-immigrants.

I'm going to go one step further. The report DID NOT include the overall number of founders, which makes it impossible to determine the significance of the findings. By classifying a company with a single immigrant founder as being founded by an immigrant, it almost certainly overemphasizes the impact of immigrant founders. I believe this was done deliberately, in order to influence matters regarding the H1B visa. I do not believe this to be an honest analysis.

FWIW, the author, Stuart Anderson, was former policy director of the Alexis de Tocqueville Institution, former director at the Cato Institute ([http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=National_Foundati...](http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=National_Foundation_for_American_Policy) ). Both are "part of the stable of conservative think tanks" [http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Alexis_de_Tocqueville_I...](http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Alexis_de_Tocqueville_Institution) .

<comment><USER2> Further analysis of 65 companies on the list of 87 (it was too boring to finish everything) finds 161 founders, for an estimated founder population of about 215.5.

You'll notice that the report doesn't come out and give the number of immigrant founders. Summing up table 3 gives 61, and 61/215.5 => 28% .

This is indeed higher than the 13% of the US population who are immigrants, though not as eye-catching of a number as 51%.

Part of the argument for immigrant co-founders is the increased diversity. For example, "Michelle believes the diverse backgrounds of CloudFlare's founders has contributed to the company's success." If that is an important criteria, then you should note that some of the companies _only_ have immigrant founders, which by that logic should count against them.

I'm not sure how to judge a U.S. company where one of the founders lives overseas. For example, Oded Comay of ForeScout appears to live in Israel. I don't know which of the founders are non-American and also non-immigrants.

Unlike the report, I'll give my list of companies (from the same WSJ source, though I have one more company than the report does) and my attempt at finding the number of founders for each company. I assert that not giving that data makes it harder to understand, much less replicate, the significance of the results.

      Uber - (2) Travis Kalanick, Garrett Camp
      Airbnb - (3) Joe Gebbia, Nathan Blecharczyk, Brian Chesky
      Palantir - (5) Peter Thiel, Joe Lonsdale, Alex Karp, Stephen Cohen, Nathan Gettings
      Snapchat - (2) Evan Spiegel, Bobby Murphy, (and Frank Reginald "Reggie" Brown IV?)
      SpaceX - (1) Elon Musk
      Pinterest - (3) Paul Sciarra, Evan Sharp, Ben Silbermann
      Dropbox - (2) Arash Ferdowsi, Drew Houston
      WeWork - (2) Adam Neumann, Miguel McKelvey
      Theranos - (1) Elizabeth Holmes
      Lyft - (2) Logan Green, John Zimmer
      Stripe - (2) Patrick Collison, John Collison
      Stemcentrx - (3) Brian Slingerland, Scott Dylla, Daniel T. Reiner
      Zenefits (YourPeople) - (2) Parker Conrad, Laks Srini
      Cloudera - (4) Jeff Hammerbacher, Mike Olson, Amr Awadallah, Christophe Bisciglia
      SoFi (Social Finance) - (4) Mike Cagney, Dan Macklin, James Finnigan, and Ian Brady
      Credit Karma - (1) Kenneth Lin
      Tanium - (2) David Hindawi, Orion Hindawi
      Fanatics - (1) Alan Trager
      DocuSign - (1) Tom Gonser
      Moderna - (4) Robert Langer, Noubar Afeyan, Ken Chien, Derrick Rossi
      Wish (ContextLogic) - (2) Peter Szulczewski, Danny Zhang
      Bloom Energy - (1) K. R. Sridhar
      Slack - (4) Stewart Butterfield, Eric Costello, Cal Henderson, and Serguei Mourachov
      Mozido - (1) Michael A. Liberty
      Houzz - (2) Adi Tatarko, Alon Cohen
      DraftKings - (3) Jason Robins, Matt Kalish, Paul Liberman
      Nutanix - (3) Dheeraj Pandey, Mohit Aron, Ajeet Singh
      Magic Leap - (1)  Rony Abovitz
      Instacart
      Domo
      Blue Apron
      Github
      Avant
      AppDynamics
      Prosper Marketplace
      ZocDoc
      AppNexus
      Intarcia Therapeutics
      Honest Co.
      Oscar Health Insurance
      MongoDB
      Jawbone
      InsideSales.com
      MuleSoft
      BuzzFeed - (2) Jonah Peretti, John Johnson
      Mu Sigma - (1) Ambika Dhiraj
      Jasper Technologies - (3) Jahangir Mohammed, Daniel Collins, Amit Gupta
      Deem - (1) Patrick Grady
      Jet.com - (3) Marc Lore, Nate Faust, Mike Hanrahan
      Thumbtack - (4) Marco Zappacosta, Sander Daniels, Jonathan Swanson, Jeremy Tunnell
      FanDuel - (5) Nigel Eccles, Lesley Eccles, Tom Griffiths, Rob Jones, Chris Stafford
      Medallia - (2) Borge Hald, Amy Pressman
      Infinidat - (1) Moshe Yanai
      Warby Parker - (4) David Gilboa, Neil Blumenthal, Andrew Hunt, Jeffrey Raider
      Okta - (2) Todd McKinnon, Frederic Kerrest
      Sprinklr - (1) Ragy Thomas
      Automattic - (1) Matt Mullenweg
      Actifio - (1) Ash Ashutosh
      Proteus Digital Health - (3) Andrew Thompson, George Savage, Mark Zdeblick
      Nextdoor - (4) Nirav Tolia, Sarah Leary, Prakash Janakiraman, David Wiesen
      Uptake - (2) Eric Lefkofsky, Brad Keywell
      Anaplan - (2) Guy Haddleton, Michael Gould
      Gusto (ZenPayroll)
      AppDirect
      23andMe
      CloudFlare
      Evernote
      Eventbrite
      Tango
      Kabam
      Lookout
      JustFab
      Qualtrics
      Razer
      SimpliVity
      Pluralsight
      MarkLogic
      Coupa Software
      Twilio
      Zscaler
      Vox Media
      Adaptive Biotechnologies
      Apttus
      Kabbage
      Datto
      Udacity
      Docker
      Mode Media - (9) Samir Arora, Ernie Cicogna, Fernando Ruarte, Vic Zauderer, Dianna Mullins, Raj Narayan, Rebecca Bogle Arora, Susan Kare, Emmanuel Job
      ForeScout - (4) Oded Comay, Dror Comay, Doron Shikmoni, Hezy Yeshurun
      Fab - (2) Jason Goldberg, Bradford Shellhammer
      Gilt Groupe - (6) Kevin P. Ryan, Dwight Merriman, Alexis Maybank, Alexandra Wilkis Wilson, Michael Bryzek, Phong Nguyen
      Good Technology - (1) Richard Davies
      Legendary Entertainment - (1) Thomas Tull
      Pure Storage - (2) John Colgrove, John Hayes
      Square - (2) Jack Dorsey, Jim McKelvey
      Sunrun - (3) Lynn Jurich, Edward Fenster, Nat Kreamer
      Beats Electronics - (2) Dr. Dre, Jimmy Iovine
      Box - (4) Aaron Levie, Dylan Smith, Sam Ghods, Jeff Queisser
      Coupons.com - (1) Steven Boal
      Fisker Automotive - (2) Henrik Fisker, Bernhard Koehler
      GoPro - (1) Nicholas Woodman
      Hortonworks - (8) Alan Gates, Arun C. Murthy, Devaraj Das, Eric Baldeschwieler, Mahadev Konar, Owen O'Malley, Sanjay Radia, Suresh Srinivas
      Lending Club - (2) Renaud Laplanch, Soulaiman Htite
      Nest Labs - (2) Tony Fadell, Matt Rogers
      New Relic - (1) Lewis Cirne
      Wayfair - (2) Niraj Shah, Steve Conine</comment></comment>


Scientists' early grant success fuels further funding - <AUTHOR> https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-018-04958-9 <comment><USER2> This is part of a bigger iceberg. A small number of scientists are recognized very early (typically high school) and tracked into programs like HHMI, which give them huge advantages over the course of their careers.

I suppose if HHMI is doing a good job recognizing the most promising people it makes sense to give them the most resources (maximizes total payoff), but it probably also ignores people who take longer to flourish.</comment>


IE6 Countdown - <AUTHOR> http://www.modern.ie/en-us/ie6countdown?r=hn

<comment><USER2> 22.2% of China still uses IE6 or I misinterpreted?

Wow.

<comment><USER3> An estimated 50% of desktop PCs in China are still running Windows XP; so that seems reasonable.</comment></comment>


Ask HN: How to gain traction with projects? - <AUTHOR>

I've been hacking away at little projects for months. I make them up, ask my friends to test them, get feedback, iterate, and get them production-ready. It's what I love to do and I'm not going to stop.
I get pumped up. I post on my blog, Twitter, Facebook, HN, reddit, and I email blogs. I live in Northern Minnesota so there aren't many people around, but I let the few I see know about my latest projects. I even tell people about my projects at the gas station and restaurants. Basically, I try hard.
Nothing goes anywhere. I don't think it's because I make floozy things either; I feel as though my products would interest a lot of people if I could reach them.
It's really disheartening spending days of my life working on something to have a handful of people see it. How do you gain traction with your projects? Is there a magic bullet that works for you? <comment><USER2> While I don't have much experience with launching anything, it sounds like the projects that you're building aren't exactly useful to the people around you. If you don't mind me asking, what are these little projects? You might want to try and focus on a target audience. Maybe even ask them what they need and gather some feedback? Just my thoughts. It may or may not apply.

<comment><AUTHOR> In reverse-chronological order:

<http://memify.me/> <http://leftright.me/> <http://mugshotwars.com/> <http://brainerdcustody.com/>

There are more but these are the apps I've made in the past month or two. I've tried to experiment with a variety of viral techniques and range my projects from local to universal context. The only one that got any notable traffic was Mugshot Wars, but it's tapered off to a few visits a day now.

<comment><USER2> They seem like decent enough projects for fun. But anything long term might be slightly tricky. I particularly liked memify.me and it seems like it could catch on. leftright, as someone had pointed out, seems similar to what's been done. An extension of leftright could be including some sort of question for people to guess - could be age, location, etc.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> Similar to what I asked here: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2219418>

<comment><AUTHOR> I see what you did there.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> No magic bullets, unfortunately, but you'll get more useful feedback if you show us what you've made.

<comment><USER4> Let me follow this up now I've seen the sites you posted.

While there's nothing hugely wrong with your sites, there's also nothing hugely right with them. I'm not trying to be negative, I'm just trying to be helpful. So mugshot wars is like a fun hotornot clone, and leftright as far as I can tell _is_ a hotornot clone, and brainerd custody is great if you want to see pictures of convicts, and memify is probably fun if you're into internet memes and don't use one of the other internet meme generators and you can be bothered to figure out exactly what it does (which the screenshot doesn't make clear) and how to login (which doesn't work for me, mac+chrome, for some reason).

Again, I don't want you to think I'm trying to crush your spirit or anything. It's clear you know some stuff about making fun sites. But these kinds of things are flaky - either people love them and they explode, or they don't and they fade away. But they're all learning exercises.

It used to be that you could put up a stupid animated gif of a singing animal and it would be the biggest thing on the internet. But there's plenty of other stuff to do online now. It's not so easy to make a viral hit.

So I would say that there's no reason that your sites aren't taking off outside of the reason that there's no reason why they should.

But look at it this way: it's damn hard to monetize junky viral traffic, so be glad you're not just saddling yourself with enormous bandwidth bills! Consider all this a learning experience - you're better at making sites than you were when you started, so when you have an idea that provides value for people, you'll be able to implement it well.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks a lot for your response. I was really looking for honest criticism.

I realize they aren't technically valuable websites. I tried to create them to appeal to users subconsciously. The reason I asked the question is that I feel like I need to know that I can get enough momentum with a project to vindicate taking the startup plunge. I don't want to spend a year on a beautiful product to not have it go anywhere.

And thank god for EC2. Last month's bill for 4 servers: $6

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> hey, I have actually just started an organization to help entrepreneurs gain traction

<http://www.meetup.com/traction-bootcamp>

Unfortunately the first group's meetups will be in New York, however, maybe we can include you virtually in our program.

I started this program because I meet a lot of entrepreneurs like you... a lot of people are good at building the initial prototype, but sucks at getting traction.

The two major reasons being

1\. Entrepreneurs don't quite know how to gain traction

2\. Entrepreneurs don't necessarily have the support system that goad each other on to get traction, especially when the going gets tough.

Love to include you in the program, email me (the organizer) if you want

</comment><comment><USER6> Try and solve a problem.

<comment><AUTHOR> What type of problem? How would you define that?

<comment><USER6> Your clearly a good programmer I just don't see the goal of your apps. In addition they all seem to be slight variations of the same core idea. Trying to arbitrarily come up with an idea that you think is going to instantly gain traction and become viral is just a shot in the dark, unless you have evidence suggesting your idea has that ability.

If your goal is to start a business/make money then find a problem in society (with a substantial market) and provide a solution. It's really that simple, and there are plenty of problems. The type of problem is up to you, I'd go with something you find interesting.</comment></comment></comment>