Pencil code - <AUTHOR> http://pencilcode.net/ <comment><USER2> I couldn't really help myself ... whenever I see any sort of "turtle graphics" engine, I have to re-write my favorite line-art program:

[http://doctorfractal.pencilcode.net/edit/mystery_one](http://doctorfractal.pencilcode.net/edit/mystery_one)

Sadly, that halts only a tiny way into the drawing when "speed Infinity" is set, and even at "speed 1000" the turtle still seems to run pretty slow (at least it finishes the whole drawing that way).

<comment><USER3> To anyone who can't see output: adjust the "origin" by changing the first jumpxy block to (-50,-50)

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Thanks OP!

That is flipping sweet! Ahh man, takes me back to 1982 sitting in from of an Apple II in 2nd grade fiddling with turtle. Shudders... Ugh, so old. Makes me want to abandon using these new fangled 3D Animation FX softwares and make some green lines and purple circles, drink some Ovaltine, eat some cookies and have a nap.

Sorry, had all the nostalgia there.

This must be memory triggerings too, right?

<comment><USER5> Making glowing green lines and purple circles is harder than it used to be, because that combination of hardware isn't popular[0]. It might not be that hard to use an old monitor, but it was easier in 92.

[0] [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7066657](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7066657)

<comment><USER4> Ahaha, noice1, never thought to take it that far. Seems like there's most probably a web page out there that will do glowing green terminal emulation of some sort. Nothing's going to fit me in my old aquaman under-roos though, lol!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> At first glance, this looks like a modern implementation of Logo: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logo_%28programming_language%29](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logo_%28programming_language%29)

<comment><USER7> It even has a turtle

</comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> For anyone wondering about the similarity of the block editor (called Droplet) with Blockly, Scatch, etc., the author of Pencil Code has a good paper on Droplet and previous work: [http://ideas.pencilcode.net/home/htmlcss/droplet- paper.pdf](http://ideas.pencilcode.net/home/htmlcss/droplet-paper.pdf)

</comment><comment><USER8> Is this made with Blockly ( [https://developers.google.com/blockly/](https://developers.google.com/blockly/) ) or a copy of it? There's already many sites using blockly to learn to code, the example linked looks much like a copy of Google's Maze example [https://blockly-games.appspot.com/maze?lang=en](https://blockly- games.appspot.com/maze?lang=en)

<comment><AUTHOR> The block editor is Droplet: [https://github.com/PencilCode/droplet](https://github.com/PencilCode/droplet). The author of Pencil Code has a good paper which outlined the history of block editors: [http://ideas.pencilcode.net/home/htmlcss/droplet- paper.pdf](http://ideas.pencilcode.net/home/htmlcss/droplet-paper.pdf).

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> Maybe [https://scratch.mit.edu/](https://scratch.mit.edu/)

<comment><USER10> We're hiring! [http://scratch.mit.edu/jobs/](http://scratch.mit.edu/jobs/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> > Learn professional programming languages using an editor that lets you work > in either blocks or text.

I was hoping this would be a visual editor for existing mainstream languages (Python, JS, PHP, C#, etc.). Sadly it isn't, but this makes me want to make one.

<comment><AUTHOR> It is, for JavaScript and CoffeeScript. Additional adapters can also be created. Read [http://ideas.pencilcode.net/home/htmlcss/droplet- paper.pdf](http://ideas.pencilcode.net/home/htmlcss/droplet-paper.pdf) :)

<comment><USER11> Oh I see! I hadn't noticed it was CoffeeScript.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> I thought of [http://pencil-code.nordita.org](http://pencil-code.nordita.org) (large scale academic finite-difference solver for magnetohydrodynamics, applications for solar dynamics, supernovas etc)

(no affiliation, I just work in a related area)

</comment><comment><USER13> Logo Writer and Turtle Graphics! Definitely brings back memories. This is great for early beginners and children. This makes me wonder about what we could create that's similar to this, but for more robust work for adults.

</comment><comment><USER14> I like these types of projects. Easy to use and easy to get kids into basic coding. Would be a great piece to use in schools for an upcoming "Day of Code".

</comment><comment><USER15> This is really cool.

One suggestion -- expand the function names! It took me a little bit to figure out that "fd" was "forward" and "rt" was "right."

It doesn't seem like that much more time to type out "forward" than "fd" \-- especially if you're just clicking on function names -- and it'd go a long way in making the code more approachable and readable.

</comment><comment> Dorian-Marie Pretty awesome, you can write functions, use variables, etc... This is how I always wanted Scratch to be, thanks.

</comment><comment><USER16> This looks amazing, and pretty sure I'll be using it with my students.

Would be nice if it supported Python, as that's our preferred language, but JS will do.

<comment><AUTHOR> You will be happy to know that the author is interested in adding Python support and has listed it as a potential GSoC project ([http://ideas.pencilcode.net/](http://ideas.pencilcode.net/)).

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> For those of you feeling nostalgia for Turtle Logo: [http://turtleacademy.com/](http://turtleacademy.com/)

</comment><comment><USER18> I like writing fractals in logo.

[http://leni536.pencilcode.net/edit/koch](http://leni536.pencilcode.net/edit/koch)

</comment><comment><USER19> [http://sputum.pencilcode.net/edit/first](http://sputum.pencilcode.net/edit/first) :)

</comment><comment><USER20> Pencil code = Droplet + LOGO.

</comment><comment><USER21> It's super good for beginners, especially for kids!</comment>


This software guy accidentally designed an app that is saving my dyslexic son - <AUTHOR> http://qz.com/232200/this-software-guy-accidentally-designed-an-app-that-is-saving-my-dyslexic-son/

<comment><USER2> _> The only thing that disappoints my son is that he can't read the books we have on our e-readers because the books are protected under digital rights management and so the fluid experience that Voice Dream offers is off limits for the many e-books for which we've already purchased._

The upside of DRM is so small and imaginary, the unintended, unexpected downsides seem to go on forever.</comment>


What makes dogs so special and successful? Love - <AUTHOR> https://www.washingtonpost.com/gdpr-consent/ <comment><USER2> I actually don't care much for dogs and I think it's unfair to people like myself who think of them as nice but meaningless.

Dogs are like farming. It's either your life or just something in it.</comment>


Modern Style Guides - <AUTHOR> https://speakerdeck.com/shayhowe/modern-style-guides-for-a-better-tomorrow Times are changing and so must the process in which we design and build websites. The days of designing static compositions in Photoshop are a thing of the past, instead, responsive design within the browser is the future. This new world is not without its own risks, but if we focus on maintainability, organization, and modularity we can achieve a better tomorrow <comment><AUTHOR> Times are changing and so must the process in which we design and build websites. The days of designing static compositions in Photoshop are a thing of the past, instead, responsive design within the browser is the future. This new world is not without its own risks, but if we focus on maintainability, organization, and modularity we can achieve a better tomorrow.

In this talk Shay will outline styleguides, living documentation on the design and development of a website, and their role within web design and development process. Looking at a few modern practices and standards, this talk will cover the benefits of stylesguides, the strategy behind creating one, and how to best utilize one within your project.

</comment><comment><USER2> Why web-design in Photoshop was even a thing to begin with, I still wonder.</comment>


Ask HN: What are your unused domain names that you would give to a good owner? - <AUTHOR>

Domain hoarding is a real problem, why not share them with Hacker News. If you see a domain name you like, tell the person what you would do with it and they can decide to give it to you or not. <comment><USER2> I have couple of ideas for the domain name www.logodzine.com that I own. I am looking for a co-founder/business partner help startup.

</comment><comment><USER3> nfc.pm -- If adequately well paid.

It's good for url shortening, for NFC-related application/companies and/or for both.

</comment><comment><USER4> taskdrone.com taskdrone.net -

I had a disruptive idea that makes drone cargo feasible, but I'm too busy to follow up on it.

<comment><USER5> If you are open to giving this, I would love to take it

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> skilledinterns.com - I am interested in selling. Good for someone who intends to start up an internship business.

</comment><comment><USER7> webpage.computer

</comment><comment><USER8> kidslikemine.com

I considered selling it but I don't see it really being worth the effort. So, yeah, I guess I would be okay with giving it away. I am doing nothing with it and I don't plan to ever again.

<comment><USER9> Out of interest, what were you either using it for or had in mind?

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> lobi.mobi</comment>


Attention control is critical for changing/increasing/altering motivation - <AUTHOR> http://lesswrong.com/lw/blr/attention_control_is_critical_for/ <comment><USER2> It's also interesting to see how certain companies use the lack of attention control to their advantage.

>Curious/Want to share? Type in Facebook.com

>Bored? Open up the Twitter app

>Don't feel like working? news.ycombinator.com

>Need to check on a quick fact? Type it into Chrome/Google Search bar

The best companies leverage this to their advantage. They tie human emotions/behavior into their own products. Once you've reach that kind of penetration, it's takes a lot of effort for a competitor to build that kind of "integration".

When I started seeing how many times I visited HN/Facebook/Twitter I made a concerted effort to at least cut it in half. Did I miss out on a lot? Not really. Did I get a lot more work done? Yeah.

I told myself I would cut down many times before, but it never really worked since I didn't fully commit to it. If you 're in that position (or just want some motivation), I'd more than happy to help you stay on track (It's something that I'm really interested in). Just shoot me an email (hnusername - gmail.com).

<comment><USER3> I did something similar with TV watching. I'm always lamenting the fact that I don't read enough, don't do enough coding side projects, etc. So with the exception of new Mad Men and Community episodes [0], I've cut out TV.

So now whenever I want to watch TV, I just think "what's something else I could do?" Mostly I've filled that time with exercise and reading: a net positive.

[0] On Amazon Instant and Hulu, respectively

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> I think this applies not just to motivation, but results/productivity. In 'The Fire From Within' (1984) Castaneda says that REAL learning (his emphasis) takes place only in a state of heightened awareness. The essential path to heightened awareness is attention; thus attention control is ESSENTIAL (my emphasis) to any kind of productivity gain or behavior change.

And sumukhi is correct - the pervasive marketing of instant gratification, whether from Madison Ave or Twitter et al is really creating a sort of de- evolutionary effect, whereby human behavior is often marked by self- destructive impulses, with the attendant lack of self-control.

Creativity may seem to arise during a period of inattention but has been well documented to actually occur (seemingly spontaneously) as a result of an immersion in attention (the "the harder I work the smarter\luckier I get" effect.

</comment><comment><USER5> Am I the only one who feels attention is overrated? The thing is that _lack_ of attention is correlated with creativity: [http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2012/02/why-being- sleepy-a...](http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2012/02/why-being-sleepy-and- drunk-are-great-for-creativity/#more-95756)

This is why most people hate morning classes. Your brain hasn't fully woken up yet, so you're less attentive, but more creative. Of course, most college classes reward paying attention over creativity, so it's usually bad for people to take morning classes.

<comment><USER6> Yes, but creativity needs structural boundaries in order to be channeled into practical use. A combination of structured ("focused") and unstructured time is probably ideal.

Structure need not be extrinsically imposed, though; it can be self-directed (otherwise known as discipline).

<comment><USER5> It's interesting that you put it that way, because I also feel discipline is overrated too. :-)

That said, I'm by far not saying that attention is unimportant. I'm just saying that it doesn't deserve the importance we assign it.

Also, I would like to see evidence that scheduling distractions like that still yields the same creativity benefit. Scheduling your distractions would seem to defeat the purpose, wouldn't it? Planning for unstructured time isn't the same as not paying attention. It's paying attention to something random, which isn't the same thing as not paying attention.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> "Control your reality like a TV set": [http://rejectiontherapy.com/control- your-reality-like-a-tv-s...](http://rejectiontherapy.com/control-your-reality- like-a-tv-set-howto/) goes into the four states of attention and Attention Theory Control. Essentially, our perspective we use to interface with existance either gives us power or makes us a victim of circumstance.

Perspective is our power, and it affects everything, including motivation.

</comment><comment><USER8> This article was profound because of the parallel drawn between meditation and CBT. The latter suddenly makes a lot of sense to me.</comment>


Soylent Update 3/13 - jack-r-abbit http://blog.soylent.me/post/79480695066/soylent-update-3-13 <comment><AUTHOR> > and RFI has ordered several pallets of rice protein via air freight, so the > manufacturing process can begin earlier and supporters can start receiving > shipments.

With tricks like that, it's unlikely Soylent will become affordable anytime soon. But then, experimental food technology, small scale, etc.

I'm still pretty sure that if it does become big enough to be distributed to grocery stores, it'll find a way somewhere in the diet department, right next to the diet shakes and whatnot.

<comment><USER2> That's just how early R&D is when you have a physical product. I can't count how much crazy crap I've seen rushed from China to make a deadline or meet early turn outs. Sometimes engineering time and early adopter happiness are worth a lot more than the one off cost of some air freight. Its not like (at least I hope not how) that's how their supply chain will be working in the long term.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> Every time we have a thread about Soylent on HN, without a doubt, it turns into a debate between people who love the product/concept and people who absolutely loathe it.

I've always found it interesting that a lot of the most disruptive companies have this effect at some point, in various degrees. Apple, Uber, Airbnb, and recently Secret all come to mind.

I'm not saying this is any kind of a predictor for the success of Soylent, but it's still interesting.

<comment> jack-r-abbit Soylent threads also get a lot of snarky and rude comments directed _at_ the people who love the concept. The others you listed (with the exception of Apple) don't get that so much. I don't think I've ever read an Uber or Airbnb thread where the people against it were so rude to the people for it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Why go with an exotic, new protein source like brown rice when there're others available in huge quantities and very good quality like whey protein isolate ?

Whey protein may not be 100% for vegans, I guess. But then, it's something so remote from milk, just as rice isolate is remote from rice.

<comment><USER5> [http://discourse.soylent.me/t/new-soylent-feedback- category/...](http://discourse.soylent.me/t/new-soylent-feedback- category/3670/4)

There's the stated reason.

Personally given threads like that I wouldn't touch this stuff with a ten foot pole as a complete meal replacement.

<comment><USER6> Wow, what a crazy thread! They are going about picking nutrients the way I would go about picking some web framework. Hey lets pick Rails what dynamic languages no way ok how about Servlets no way dude no semicolons for me ok then how about Play dude its like so boilerplatey ok fine how about scalatra fine scalatra it is. There's no thought that some human is actually going to put this thing in his mouth, what effects its going to have on his health and well-being. Nutrition as a Service.

<comment><USER7> It doesn't seem so crazy to me. Those aren't the people who created Soylent, just potential customers explaining what they want from the product.

Were you expecting a magical revelation from the gods of nutrition?

<comment><USER6> >Were you expecting a magical revelation from the gods of nutrition?

Unlike subjective ad-hoc-cy garbage like web/js frameworks, nutrition is a sound science well studied for hundreds of years. We know which people in which climes eat which food groups in what proportion, how they fare relative to each other, impact of food groups on your bile/blood/bowels , ... There are, as you choose to call them, "gods of nutrition", with PhDs and years of experience studying the damn thing in their labs. To randomly pick brown rice over whey because "hey I don't want to support industrialized cattle farmers"...that would be like my toddler picking candy over broccoli because it just tastes better! This is supposed to be an MRP that real people eat, and hopefully has no adverse effects on them. Its not some random 8080 server that serves json whether you code it up with or without semicolons.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> It seems like this continues to push forward and tries to be a real product, but there are two things wrong with it. 1) outside of a really small group of people (unless I'm mistaken?), it doesn't seem like there's any demand for it and 2) it has one of the worst product names I've ever heard of.

<comment> jack-r-abbit > _it has one of the worst product names I 've ever heard of_

I beg to differ: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spotted_dick](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spotted_dick)

<comment><USER9> [http://pioneerstories-asay.blogspot.com/2011/01/lumpy- dick.h...](http://pioneerstories-asay.blogspot.com/2011/01/lumpy-dick.html)

My wife calls it "Pioneer Cereal".

</comment></comment></comment><comment> jack-r-abbit I'm sad about yet another delay. I hope they can get this sorted out. I ordered a little later in the campaign and wasn't expecting my 30 day supply until late Dec or early Jan. but now we're looking at late April.

<comment><USER10> guess you'll just have to sustain yourself on real food till then :)

<comment> jack-r-abbit Oh... I've been just starving while I wait. :) I'm just eager to get it and try it.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> I would be interested if they could get it down to $5 a day to match what I'm currently spending on food

<comment><USER12> Would you mind giving the details on how you got the cost that low?

<comment><USER13> Can't speak for who you're asking directly, but: lentils, rice, beans, frozen veggies, corn tortillas. Can make delicious meals with a well-stocked spice rack (which costs an initial hundred bucks or so upfront, but depreciation maybe adds at most a couple quarters to each meal).

Fresh veggies are doable too, if you're smart about where you shop and what you buy.

<comment><USER14> I'd suggest people to go shopping at your local ethnic store for spices vs. buying pre-packed spice racks or those tiny spice bottles from whole foods or your local markets.

You'll get X times quantity for 1/Yth the cost. The same goes for Lentils, Beans and Rice

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> "This rice protein is the highest mesh size on the market, which results in a smooth and creamy mouthfeel." This is why I backed Soylent. For the mouthfeel.

mmm.

</comment><comment><USER16> I'm unsure that I understand the whole Soylent thing. Is it for lazy people or is it for people who simply don't enjoy food? I know it's not about solving some sort of food supply problem, as we've not seen tons if it being distributed for free to the hungry. And it can't be about eating healthy, because eating healthy is easy and doesn't require buying chemicals from shady manufacturers. So what's it all about?

<comment><USER17> I typically don't eat breakfast because I either don't have time, have run out of eggs/cereal/milk, or don't feel like eating one of the three typical breakfast foods. If I could supplement/substitute breakfast it would be really nice.

Sometimes I eat fast food or some microwaveable thing because I am either exhausted when I come home, don't have food in the fridge, and I don't want to prepare anything or go to the super market. If I had a healthy and cheap alternative to a borrito, burger, or teriyaki chicken that would be awesome.

I'm not going to go 100% on Soylent and I don't think many of the people buying into it are, it's a meal alternative and another option for those 20-40% of meals that I simply am not going to cook for whatever reason.

<comment><USER18> Just wondering, how often in the past have you purchased some kind of meal replacement shake to solve the problem?

If never or not often, why will Soylent be different?

<comment><USER17> I drink protein shakes in the morning about once or twice a week (usually the morning after a workout). Soylent appeals to me because it seem like a more "complete" protein shake.

I haven't purchased other meal replacement drinks because I frankly wasn't aware that they existed until I started following all of this.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> With all these issues with the protein source, perhaps Soylent is only viable when it's made out of people...

</comment><comment><USER20> Too bad they aren't interested in assisting the poor. This could have been a godsend. The market their price targets will likely show little interest. They like and can afford food.

<comment><USER21> Every product needs to assist the poor or it's immoral?

<comment><USER22> where did the commenter say it was immoral?

<comment><USER23> "Could have been a godsend" -> "It's not a godsend" -> "It's not something from god" -> "It's not good" -> "It's bad" -> "It's immoral"

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> It's odd that whenever I see an update from Soylent I already assume that it is an 'Soylent will be ready next month maybe' email.

I'm hoping to be surprised in April, but then I was also today, last month, January... etc.

</comment><comment><USER25> With this many delays it would have been more fitting if they had use Kickstarter.com to raise their money.

</comment><comment><USER26> I hadn't heard about this in awhile. I had hoped it had gone away.

It's probably the worst product name in history. It's like a gag product you'd find on Think Geek, like cans of Unicorn Meat.

I want to throw up just thinking about choking down that snot-like material.

<comment><USER23> How is this the kind of comment you'd expect to leave on HN?

"I hope it goes away, its name sucks, and using it would literally make me vomit."

Astounding commentary, nsxwolf. I look forward to hearing from you soon.

<comment><USER26> You can look at my comment history and see that I never post comments like this.

This is an exception because I find this so utterly repulsive and repugnant.

Somewhere deep down in my soul I find this just anti-human, like a bunch of transhumanist lemmings that can't wait to jump off the whole humanity train so they're going to start by eliminating food. Next comes truth, followed by beauty.

<comment><USER27> Anti human? You mean like prosthetic limbs? You mean like artifical organs to replace failed natural ones? Wow, I thought the "humanist" mindset parodied in the recent deus ex game was a complete invention. Apparently it really exists.

Thanks for the most absurd thing I've read all year this side of 4chan.

<comment><USER26> Prosthetic limbs and organs attempt to replace their natural equivalents. Why you would think I have a problem with that, I have no idea.

So far I haven't seen amputees opting for tentacles instead of legs, or people deliberately amputating healthy limbs so they can run faster with blades. That would gross me out.

<comment><USER27> > Why you would think I have a problem with that, I have no idea.

Because you're having this visceral, irrational reaction to what is essentially a nutritionally-modified Ensure or Slimfast or any other meal replacement drink that's been around for the past 20 years!

Wait until prosthetics are on equal ground with the real thing - I'd wager once that time comes, willfully trading the real limb for an artifical one will become a real thing.

<comment><USER26> I'm sure you're right. All sorts of biomedical horrors are coming our way.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Office Intruder - Using Social Engineering to steal data - <AUTHOR> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7843206.stm Using social engineering tricks to steal data <comment><USER2> It always amuses me to read these recent news articles about social engineering and what a threat it is. I swear the BBC reported on much the same thing in the middle of last year.

At the end of the day there is nothing much you can do to stop the social engineering. Sure we can minimise it to the point where intrusions are no longer so simple (good education is the main key there) but the process is fundamentally reliant on human error.

Maximise education, minimise data exposure, get over the fallacy that internal data need not be encrypted and compartmentalize departments of people and you have done all you can. Then it is up to a vigilant IT department and giving staff the confidence to challenge potential intruders.

</comment><comment><USER3> Education has to go both ways, though. Sure, employees and users need to to know the dangers (for instance - Facebook users need to know how dangerous it is to give Facebook the password to their email accounts) but Facebook thinks it's dangerous for it's users to understand security.

The first time I ever saw a Phishing scam on Facebook I took a screen shot and emailed it to Facebook, because I was almost certain that Phishing was not occurring on a large-scale on their web-site at that time. The result? They blocked my account for almost a week. I guess the fact that I knew what a Phishing scam was made me "suspicious".

If the IT department where I work called me and asked for my password, I would hesitate to refuse because odds are, they'd think I was trying to hide something. They honestly wouldn't understand why it was a bad idea for me to give them my password.

<comment><USER4> I think in a typical firm very few people would refuse to give their passwords... most of us would give it with a "sure, no problems, you are welcome" smile :)</comment></comment>


use multiplexing to speed up SSH - <AUTHOR> https://www.techrepublic.com/article/how-to-use-multiplexing-to-speed-up-the-ssh/ <comment><USER2> Be careful with multiplexing. The default values in ssh allow for all subsequent sessions without auth and will not generate syslog auth entries, which makes phishing 100% easier.

We did an internal demo where we got a person to run one ruby script, and another person had unlogged access to all of dev and production.

Please work with your security teams before wide spread adoption of enabling control master. There are many security implications in ssh multiplexing, even in a dev environment where we can backdoor the installation scripts that find their way into production.</comment>


Humble startup beginnings of billion-dollar-companies, told in GIF's - <AUTHOR> https://medium.com/@jibly/the-billion-dollar-mvp-s-ac8d7d0cfac3

<comment><USER2> Nice one! I would like to see animations of Uber, Facebook and Tinder :)

<comment><AUTHOR> :) will do, would be fun to do also of less bigger companies maybe. Any ideas are welcome.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> love it</comment>


Show HN: Please rate my website for an iPhone/Android app - <AUTHOR> http://go.wanderplayer.com/

<comment><USER2> You should probably have the BetaBeat/Mashable icons link to where your product was actually mentioned on those sites.

</comment><comment><USER3> Where is the link for the Android app?

<comment><AUTHOR> Android is forthcoming - the decal is just a placeholder for now while we finish it off.</comment></comment>


Show HN: Search IKEA by item size my weekend project - <AUTHOR> http://www.ikeabysize.com/ <comment><USER2> A few things:

      - Note that each dimension is optional
      - Country selector is grey, looking like it's disabled
      - Change to a tile gallery so you can use larger pictures.
      - Results should be listed with their actual size.
        Getting a baking pan when searching for 24"x24", and
        having the pan be listed with those dimensions makes it
        hard to find the furniture I really want to see.
      - On that note, maybe segment the products by
        kitchen/accessory/bathroom/etc...I'm not sure how Ikea
        handles that.

Excellent job, though! I bought my car a few years ago based on size, and I was wishing for (and planning on building) something like this. Heck, "everythingbysize.com" is probably available. :) Suffice it to say, I wish there were more attribute-based search engines.

EDIT: Hmm, is it only searching kitchen products?

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> This is my first weekend project submitted to HN.

I needed a TV stand for my new house that had to be an exact height. Trying to find items on IKEA's website by height was not possible so I've parsed their web catalogue for all their products and come up with a web page to search my database.

By default it returns the items that will fit the dimensions requested the best, you can then click on the height, width, depth column headers to sort by the one selected.

I'm not the best designer in the world I was just messing around with code for my own personal use.</comment>


Buy ethically: Buy sweatshop - <AUTHOR> http://www.adamsmith.org/blog/international/buy-ethically:-buy-sweatshop/ <comment><USER2> Thy to remember that "sweatshop" is not a binary function. The choice is not sweatshop or not-sweatshop, but instead a continuum of working conditions, often present in the same factory.

It may not be practical to demand western wages for these workers but we shouldn't support factories that beat the workers or subject them to environments that rapidly cause sickness and death either.

<comment><USER3> "... we shouldn't support factories that beat the workers or subject them to environments that rapidly cause sickness and death either."

I agree, but how do we tell the difference between one tshirt or the other, and its associated work conditions?

<comment><USER4> >agree, but how do we tell the difference between one tshirt or the other, and its associated work conditions?

The international fairtrade mark is a good way of telling the difference ... <http://fairtrade.net/about_fairtrade.0.html>

<comment><USER5> The point of the OP was that fairtrade's standards don't make sense. So why look for their mark?

<comment><USER4> Certified fairtrade standards do indicate that which the parent was asking to be shown, that factories have safe and ethical working practices.

If you buy fairtrade certified goods then you know (as much as one can, even if you were to inspect the factory yourself) that they don't "beat the workers or subject them to environments that rapidly cause sickness and death either".

See some of the assessed standards (certification is by physically present assessors who visit at least once per year except in historically exemplary establishments where visits may be reduced) - <http://fairtrade.net/653.0.html>, in particular [http://fairtrade.net/fileadmin/user_upload/content/2009/stan...](http://fairtrade.net/fileadmin/user_upload/content/2009/standards/documents/04-10_EN_Generic_Fairtrade_Standard_HL_Aug_2009_EN_amended_version_04-10.pdf) are the generic H&S standards, see for example Section 1.6.

Here's another reason to look for the mark, [http://fairtrade.net/single_view1.0.html?&cHash=18ecb39c...](http://fairtrade.net/single_view1.0.html?&cHash=18ecb39c42&tx_ttnews\[tt_news\]=187) "ILO and Kuapa Kokoo partner to combat child labour in cocoa" ; <http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6575713.stm> "Labouring for chocolate" BBC report on "child slavery" in cocoa plantations.

Of course if you think kids are better off slaving away to keep more of the money you spend on chocolate further up the supply chain, rather than being in school, then don't look for the Fairtrade mark.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> EddieC on that page ([http://www.adamsmith.org/blog/international/buy- ethically:-b...](http://www.adamsmith.org/blog/international/buy- ethically:-buy-sweatshop/)) says:

> _No, it means that without the distortions to incentives FairTrade and the > like introduce, the market signals to all the most effective allocations of > land, labour and capital._

The thing is, and why we need fair trade, that the market signals that human lives are worth nearly nothing because there are a lot of them.

In effect a purely market lead system would have (has!) people working in dangerous conditions without safety equipment (like the workers sprayed with pesticides in non-fairtrade banana plantations leaving them sick and infertile) until the supply of people runs low enough to make a sufficient price difference.

If you want to live in that sort of world, a world that ignores child slavery in Western Africa because it produces cheaper cocoa beans for example, then I really have nothing but contempt for you.

Fairtrade doesn't produce oversupply, it doesn't lock people in - how can sufficient funds to access healthcare, education and approach crop diversity be locking people in?

It's a well put argument that nonetheless is wanting IMO, it's oozing with malevolence and contempt for humanity.

</comment><comment><USER6> This topic seems to coincide with the recent findings of a culture living in Peru that has not been contacted as of yet.

The standard arguments are that we will bring them "better" technology so they can make their lives easier. Of course, we also bring in the health argument and use that excuse because they will be healthier.

What natives living in Peru and sweatshops have in common are that we are trying to force a Westernized way of living regardless what those very people say.

In sweatshops, many have denounced them as bad conditions. Yeah, we had sweatshops in the USA, and child labor up until 1938, when the Fair Labor Standards Act was passed.

Sweatshops also dont have USA minimum wage attached... Well DUH. They aren't in the USA specifically because US labor costs too damn much. Even when automotive first went to Mexico, they later left to China because.... it cost too much! (Aside the drug cartels and lack of US immigration laws, Mexico is doing worse. But that's for another essay.)

It all goes back to quality of standards we project on others. Wether it is wealth accumulation, healthcare, living, electricity/clean water, and services, we project what we expect others to have. Of course they don't have it. However in the case of sweatshops, the people will assemble once they have enough income and start their own companies. They will grease the wheel of commerce, and we're providing the bootstrap.</comment>


I refuse to tolerate assholes - <AUTHOR> http://www.jacobian.org/writing/assholes/ <comment><USER2> Preface: Something I've noticed about jerks/assholes: they're convinced that they're surrounded by jerks and/or assholes. Almost none of them are jerks for no reason. They're almost always jerks in response to some slight (either imagined, or blown way out of proportion). A good sign that you might be a jerk is that you see jerks all around you. Most people are basically all right. If you (1) run into conflicts with a lot of people, please consider the possibility that you are at least part of the cause.

Actual Point: The reason I am hesitant about following the advice of this article is that it encourages you to divide the world into jerks and nice people. It's very easy to be a jerk to a jerk. If you are a jerk to a jerk, suddenly everyone on the project has to deal with two jerks.

I do agree that there are behaviors that just shouldn't be accepted, and there are lots of examples of them online. But you (2) do need to be mindful of your response to those behaviors. Make sure your response isn't to engage in those behaviors yourself.

(1 & 2) and by you, I mostly mean me. I am totally writing to myself here.

<comment><USER3> _They're almost always jerks in response to some slight (either imagined, or blown way out of proportion)._

Either that, or they're just clinically certifiable narcissists. True narcissists are world-class pains in the ass like nothing else on the many spectra of personality disorders.

<comment><USER4> The true narcissists I have had the misfortune of knowing have been _extremely_ charming. If they hadn't been, their "handicap" would have crippled their social lives. True narcissism and well above average ability to charm people, go hand in hand.

The same can be said about all sociopaths, they are all a very charming bunch.

<comment><USER3> Outwardly charming, on a surface level? Yes. Impossible to work with, or worse, for? Absolutely. They have close to zero conception or awareness of other human beings, making them poor communicators, irrational decisionmakers with regards to anything other than their personal interests, and something approximating pathological liars.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> It's a gross oversimplification, but I try to live according to the dictum that it is easy to bifurcate behaviours into good and bad, but people are complex and subject to change, thus it is very difficult for me to brand someone as an "asshole."

[http://github.com/raganwald/homoiconic/blob/master/2009-05-0...](http://github.com/raganwald/homoiconic/blob/master/2009-05-01/optimism.md#readme)

UPDATE: Thinking about the OP, I wonder if seeing behaviours as simple and people as complex actually _helps_ you be intolerant of bad behaviour.

If you believe that some people are assholes, you have very little in the way of options for dealing with them: Purge them from your life, wall them off so their damage can be contained, or accept them and their behaviour wholesale.

But if you focus on the behaviour, you can try to negotiate: "You are a genius, your work on ___ is brilliant. However, this behaviour ____ is unacceptable, please stop doing it. Here is why..., Here is something more constructive you could consider..."

<comment><USER6> > But if you focus on the behaviour, you can try to negotiate: "You are a > genius, your work on ___ is brilliant. However, this behaviour ____ is > unacceptable, please stop doing it. Here is why..., Here is something more > constructive you could consider..."

Incredibly well said - that's the point I was reaching towards and couldn't quite articulate perfectly, apparently. Ideally, we'd call out shitty behavior and _change_ that behavior. I didn't mean to suggest a "my way or the highway" attitude; rather, my point is that we shouldn't keep quiet when someone's being a jerk.

<comment><USER7> Typically, I've managed to maintain a decent working relationship even with people others found virtually intolerable. My natural inclination is to let the more abrasive aspects of their personalities slide, but sometimes I doubt this approach, because occasionally what it means is taking them less seriously as human beings. Their idiosyncrasies can be predictable, so I'm tempted to think of them as machines. In one sense, it's convenient: I rarely get angry at machines, so why would I get angry at machine-like people? On the other hand, it's dismissive and lazy.

What you're talking about is rejecting cynicism, assuming things can change, believing things are worth changing, and being willing to put in the effort to call out the jerks. As long as you do it constructively, you end up humanizing people who probably need it--and you might even make a difference! So, for all our sakes, please keep it up.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> I think perhaps I haven't been clear enough, because most here seem to be missing what I intended to be my central argument; to quote:

 _I will call out antisocial behavior, enforce professionalism in the communities where I have the power to do, and leave the communities that cannot at least offer civility._

In other words, if someone's being a jerk, we should call them on it. I didn't mean to suggest dividing the world into "assholes" and "good people" — clearly there's a spectrum, and clearly even saints have bad days. And I certainly didn't mean we should ostracize people at the first sign of shitty behavior.

But if someone's abusive, and they refuse to moderate their behavior, then either they need to leave or I will. I just can't accept that allowing abusive behavior is the price we have to pay for good code.

</comment><comment><USER8> _It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice._

Another point, which the author could have also argued, is that assholes push or scare others out of open-source communities. Much of the time, the people scared away are not profilic contributors, however many of them had the potential to become so if they were nurtured. I certainly wasn't the best coder when I started contributing to Drupal (and I'm still not), but I managed to do a lot of good for it both in code and evangelizing for it. Had it not been for the leaders in the community who were super-nice (e.g., Neil Drumm and Angie Byron), then I would have let the jerks keep me from using and contributing back to something I loved. However, I noticed that as I became a better and more knowledgeable contributor, it was easier for me to fall into the behavior of sounding like a jerk myself. We (or at least I) have to constantly check ourselves to ensure we are doing good for the community and sticking true to our nice roots.

</comment><comment><USER9> Have you looked in the mirror, man? That entire posts exudes the exact same behavior you are condemning.

You've asked for them to be fired? That wasn't your place, and the penalty is far too harsh for the crime. You were attempting to ruin their livelihood because you don't like them.

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." - The Bible. Nobody would get to throw a stone. Nobody fits the criteria of being 'perfect'.

<comment><USER6> In the case I'm talking about, the gentleman in question threw a chair out a window halfway through a meeting. This after months of threatening violence against co-workers after showing up to work drunk.

You bet your ass I asked for him to be fired. He wasn't, so I quit.

I'm very sorry that my post rubbed you the wrong way. My intention is simply to suggest that we shouldn't tolerate antisocial behavior in our communities, and that we should ask those behaving badly to stop. Do you disagree?

<comment><USER10> I disagree with your lumping "drunken violent chair throwing" into a the exact same catagory as "guy who sarcastically responds to a person not reading the documentation". Really, extreme reactions like 0-tolerance are no better than tolerance for the extreme misbehavior you describe.

I propose that a large portion of the reaction against your statements is that until this comment, many or most of the people assumed you meant a more common form of asshole: e.g. the guy who defends his code too hard, or the guy who isn't good at criticizing others' work. The term asshole, at least as used by large numbers of people, applies to both cases. Getting someone fired because they are a bit caustic is not at all an appropriate reaction, whereas as a response to violence it is (probably) an appropriate reaction.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> Relevant book: The No Asshole Rule: Building a Civilized Workplace and Surviving One That Isn't - Robert I. Sutton. It provides an academic view of the subject.

<comment><USER12> A most excellent book, indeed.

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> The inflammatory title of my post did bleed through the content a bit, didn't it? I just loved the quote. Mea culpa.

At some point, indeed, behaviour becomes so bad that you have a moral duty to stand up to it, even if it means burning your bridges on that project. Your examples in these comments fit the bill.

But discovering that someone on the project is not a nice person, and someone you wouldn't want to hang out with? Even though they're a Coding Deity? I don't know if I'd work on any large FOSS projects if I drew the line there.

Maybe your experience has been more pleasant, or your classification of assholes more sophisticated than mine :)

</comment><comment><USER14> > These people behave in a way that would not be tolerated in real life. I've > worked with a few of these jerks in real life, and when they've been unable > to restrain their behavior I've asked for them to be fired, and I've quit.

Just because you couldn't tolerate them doesn't mean they aren't tolerated. When you asked for them to be fired (instead of asking the manager to talk to them about their behavior), were they actually fired? That sort of thing depends on the amount of power you hold in an organization. I certainly couldn't just demand that one of my coworkers be fired and expect my boss to acquiesce.

<comment><USER6> I was thinking of two specific instances (luckily this sort of crap is rare and it's only happened to me those two times).

In the first instance, the person in question was my direct boss and was responsible for reviewing my code. He'd routinely call me an idiot, a retard, etc., and during meetings he'd often say things like "no, we can't give that to Jacob - he'll just fuck it up." Now, in his defense I _was_ a pretty shitty developer at the time, but I do believe there are more constructive ways of reviewing code than calling the author a retard. I dealt with it for a few months, and finally asked his boss to transfer one of us. When I explained the reasons, this person was fired.

In the second case, my coworker was showing up to work drunk, yelling and cursing at coworkers, and routinely threatened violence -- "I'm gonna beat your ass if you don't shut the fuck up" was, I believe, a common line. Once he threw a chair through a window halfway through a (technical) meeting. Again I was too much of a coward to call him on his behavior directly, but yes I spoke to first my boss, then his, then the owner of the company. Nothing changed, so ultimately I quit.

In retrospect I certainly didn't behave perfectly: I should have confronted the behavior directly, and I should have made clear what my expectations were with regard to a professional working environment. But I was young, and all in all I'm proud of myself for not tolerating abuse (even if I didn't go about it quite right).

<comment><USER15> Awesome. Please tell us the names of these companies where managers refer to their employees as "retards", coworkers show up drunk, and it takes direct confrontation to get any of it resolved. Because I doubt anyone here wants to end up working at these places either.

Kudos to you for standing up for yourself.

<comment><USER14> It's my sincere hope that those companies have long since failed.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> An option is to reject their behaviour instead of rejecting them. Call them on it, objectively and matter-of-factly, instead of calling them names.

Hard to do.

</comment><comment><USER17> _These people behave in a way that would not be tolerated in real life._

This statement is heavy with implications. Like many of us, the author abstracts these interactions into a second class version of reality, even though they are really happening. Why do people who are usually polite in person sometimes unleash an uglier, more confrontational side of themselves when there is a buffer of distance? Even before the introduction of email & chat, I've seen this happen in phone exchanges. In the absence of the need for a flight response, do we naturally tend to fall back to the fight response?

<comment><USER18> I think this effect is exercerbated by the fact that it is difficult for users to discern tone in online modes of communication, unlike phone or face to face discussion (geeks in general have a hard time with either) I've been trying to ensure that I speak to people on the internets like I would if we were talking face to face.

</comment></comment><comment><USER19> I am sure that there are at least half a dozen different definitions of "asshole" being used in these discussions making most commentary highly ambiguous.

<comment><USER20> HELMET: Who made that man a gunner?

MAJOR: I did, sir. He's my cousin.

HELMET: Who is he?

SANDURZ: He's an Asshole, sir.

HELMET: I know that. What's his name?

SANDURZ: That is his name, sir. Asshole, Major Asshole.

HELMET: And his cousin?

SANDURZ: He's an Asshole, too, sir. Gunner's-mate, 1st Class, Philip Asshole.

HELMET: How many Assholes we got on this ship, anyhow?

ALL: Yo!

HELMET: I knew it. I'm surrounded by Assholes. Keep firing, Assholes.

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> I've worked with lots of these over the years. The really successful young ones were called _enfant terribles_. Sounds much nicer, _non_? My tolerance was in proportion to my paycheck, and I never saw management crack down unless they were heading off a discrimination case.

Nowadays I work on a small startup. Hard computer problems are easier than simple people problems!

</comment><comment><USER22> It's important to realize, however, that some people can be major assholes to _you_ but charming to others. This disconnect can be pretty annoying but is something you have to get over because if you attack the "asshole" back and your friends like the asshole, you're going to look stupid.

</comment><comment><USER23> It's an old sore. And every once in a while someone bitches and moans about it. Big whoop. Pat yourself on the back for calling out anti-social behaviour. You made the world a better place. Now shut up and hack.

Right?

The thing about these arseholes is that they, just like you, are doing this on their own, because they enjoy doing it. They're giving up their time to create something that other people can use, usually without asking anything in return for it. What they can rightfully expect in return, though, is that people read the fucking manual or do a google search before they start their incessant questioning and bitching and nagging.

<comment><USER24> Sure, but calling someone who hasn't read the manual a moron takes more effort that shutting the fuck up. So either help the poor illiterate person or shut the fuck up. It's not like this person knows that there were 58 persons before with the very same question and then the next one will come and won't know that you just called this one a moron and ask the same question again, so you're not solving anything. Quick copy-paste of a link with the answer is a much better and easier solution, don't you think?

I used to lead a community and those were my rules - help or keep silent; tolerate others. That's not so difficult, is it?

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> I have similar feelings about this. There are billions of people on the earth and hundreds of millions of them are cool. So, why waste time with people who aren't nice when there are so many nice people to meet?

<comment><USER14> Because maybe those many nice people couldn't program their way out of a wet paper sack.

If I'm looking for someone to go to a bar with, I'll pick the nice person. If I need someone to help me complete a project at work, I'll probably try to find someone who's good at what they do, regardless of whether they're an asshole or not.

<comment><USER25> You can do that but these people that act like jerks or asshole really do alienate and demotivate others, so while you might be able to handle them if you have a group of people an asshole can really destroy productivity.

<comment><USER14> That's very true, an asshole can wreck productivity. But we're human beings, and we excuse deficiencies in one area for excellence in another. If the asshole produces more than he destroys, it might be worth keeping him on board.

ymmv, and all that, of course.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> I do not tolerate working with assholes or having assholes working for me, but I am more than happy to let them work for someone else or on someone else's project and enjoy the fruits of their labor :)

</comment><comment><USER27> I'm pretty sure working with an asshole just means that the person you are working with simply doesn't like you. It doesn't mean that they are an asshole to everyone, which in some cases they might be, but most of the time, I'm sure they just don't like you, for whatever reason. So what does that make you? A pushover? At the very least, it makes you someone who identifies other people's behavior, which pretty much makes you judgmental and fearful, and also, if you understand "the secret", it makes you someone who attracts assholes. Instead of "refusing to tolerate assholes", be an asshole right back and maybe they might respect you. Never push someone away just because you don't know how to interact with them, and that's the thing, you don't know how to interact with them, cause if you did, they would like you & respect you.

</comment><comment><USER28> This article really strikes a chord. In several nerd organizations at MIT, there are longstanding "assholes" who are brilliant people and whose contributions are very valuable and educational to other members, but who typically write acerbic and harsh messages. (Almost always their criticism is directed at other longtime members, not directly at new members, but even new members see these messages or interactions in person.)

In the past, per longstanding MIT culture, these "assholes" were tolerated and their acerbic comments usually ignored -- meaning the "asshole" would send perhaps one acerbic contribution every 6-8 weeks to an otherwise busy mailing list. (Usually the assholes did not get in dust-ups with other assholes.) More recently, though, a new generation has decided not to tolerate the "assholes" and engages them publicly with every acerbic message, leading to huge flame wars that prove very distracting (because neither the asshole nor the altruist who engages them ever likes to give up).

The organizations usually lack the will to actually expel the brilliant asshole, and it's not clear whether such a move would be in their best interests -- the asshole usually does make great contributions to the mission of the group, and I personally have learned a huge deal by engaging these people and picking their brains and sometimes recruiting them to join my projects because I know they will (and do) keep a sharp eye and tell us what we're doing wrong, and their commitment and level of effort toward a technical goal when they are on your team can be extraordinary. On the other hand, the asshole's acerbic contributions and criticism are doubtless offputting to some new members, even if not directed at them.

I am not sure whether the new state of affairs is actually an improvement. I usually think it may be better just to tolerate the assholes, and I myself have a pretty thick skin about these things. I value the diversity of opinion and perspective and technical skill that comes from having a big tent, and by picking their brains and wealth of experience, I learned a great deal from the assholes. And these flamewars, some responsibility for which falls on the people who won't tolerate assholes, prove incredibly distracting.

The people who adopt hard-line stances against tolerating assholes usually consider people like me -- (hopefully) non-assholes who nonetheless counsel caution and tolerance for the assholes -- to be terribly misguided and injurious to the long-term health of the organization. They make comments like, "I want to be in this organization with my friends, not people constantly criticizing me," which to my ears sounds possibly misguided -- you do not have to expect to be friends with everybody in an organization in order to work productively toward a shared goal. Often, the non-tolerators explain that while they themselves have thick skins, they are engaging the asshole on behalf of other, newer members who are not as willing to speak up but who are offended and repelled by the asshole.

Are we just seeing the consequences of a new breed of the pampered "Generation Y" who have been raised to value civility above diversity of experience and raw merit? Or was the old way -- where harsh emails were merely ignored, while the group proceeded with its business -- just us having our heads in the sand, and unwelcoming enough to foreclose a whole crop of talented (but less thick- skinned) people from entering and flourishing in the group? Is this period of frequent flamewars likely to persist, or are we just seeing the temporary pains of a slow revolution as friendly and civil "millennials" replace the old guard? I really am not sure.

<comment><USER29> Many people who are perceived as "acerbic" are simply direct and don't engage in the poo-pooing that characterizes many human social interactions. To get rid of them is to revert to a less intelligent form of life.

<comment><USER30> No one's time is worth so much that they can't take an extra five seconds and think about how to say something to avoid looking like a jackass.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER31> Yes, definitely, let's not tolerate assholes like RMS (almost unarguably an asshole) or Linus (arguably an asshole, although, I for one find his directness and lack of tact refreshing and amusing) in open source. So let's get rid of Linux and GNU and start over.

</comment><comment><USER32> Nice to see a wave of contrary reactions to the original post, but I have to agree with him. And it's not because I think I can change an asshole. I probably can't. And perhaps sometimes I just add more to the flame.

But in cases like this I follow the maxim: "Qui tacet consentire videtur."

If you are silent and let this person behave badly then all others will see that this behaviour is in the realms of acceptableness to you and the group. For me, it is no different than allowing a bully to threaten a small kid in a school. We might have to tolerate this to have the most efficient workplace, but I prefer to optimize for justice.

(I admit, in places where I steadfastly attempt to stick to this against the wills of the group, I am a jerk.)

</comment><comment><USER33> Half-serious question: Why isn't being an asshole a clinically recognized disability? I have yet to meet a reformed asshole, so I've come to the conclusion that it's an inherent part of one's personality. No different than OCD, ADHD, sexual addiction, etc.

<comment><USER34> > I have yet to meet a reformed asshole, so I've come to the conclusion that > it's an inherent part of one's personality.

I disagree. I've witnessed many people acquire empathy as they grow older and start treating others better. I know (hope) that I'm certainly not as impetuous or quick to judge as I was in my youth.

</comment></comment><comment><USER35> I'm typically very good at getting along with people, but I suppose my reaction to an asshole depends on the type of assholery being committed. Take for example someone who is egotistical and condescending. I may not necessarily like that person, but I can tolerate that person so long as the work being done is of good quality. On the other hand, take for example someone who takes credit for the work of others or in some other way actively seeks to step on his/her peers for personal gain. I have no tolerance for that.

<comment><USER36> I think it might be worthwhile to consider the influence that the egoistical and condescending example person might have on someone who is not a perfectly rational actor, and possibly easily cowed into giving up on a technical discussion or retreating from the project as a whole.

Sure, ideally all contributors to open-source projeccts are thick-skinned and confident enough that harsh condescendence will not affect them much, but in reality, they probably are not, and I would rather cater to them than to the "assholes" who might be scaring them away.

</comment></comment><comment><USER37> Experienced programmers everywhere recommend: "/ignore"

<comment><USER38> /ban works better in my opinion. We're not so starved for talent we need to allow every asshole who can commit into a project.

</comment></comment><comment><USER39> Someone who contributes good code is by no means an asshole. Real assholes are selfish. Maybe some people are rude, that's it, but smart people see beyond rudeness.

</comment><comment><USER40> Assholes, are those people that write a compelling topic, but their webserver cannot handle the traffic?

</comment><comment><USER41> Thanks for saying it.

</comment><comment><USER42> I think you're confusing "asshole" with "socially awkward". The real assholes are the ones who smile and ooze kindness and would backstab you for 10 bucks.

Usually the "grumpy" people you're talking about are just grumpy, but good- hearted in the end.

</comment><comment><USER43> Every successful enterprise requires three men – a dreamer, a businessman, and a son-of-a-bitch. ( Every opensource project required three people. Linus. Jacob. Asshole. ( kidding... ( before you stop tolerating me ) ) yes. lisp. )

</comment><comment><USER44> I can't comment directly on his blog. What kind of asshole doesn't let people comment on his blog? :3 (Sarcasm, by the way; I don't have comments on my blog either.)

More pragmatically, the tolerance of assholes is a requisite for using a computer, if you know anything about who maintains your operating system. Linux, glibc, binutils, gcc, X; these are the underpinnings of your system, and they are all maintained by assholes of one kind or another. How do you propose to fix this?

<comment><USER45> I don't have to deal with any asshole when I use gcc or whatever.</comment></comment>


thefacebook.com - <AUTHOR> http://thefacebook.com <comment><USER2> i don't understand - this just redirects to facebook for me?

<comment><USER3> You're not missing anything. Facebook was once called "thefacebook".

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facebook#2003.E2.80.9306:_Thef...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facebook#2003.E2.80.9306:_Thefacebook.2C_Thiel_investment.2C_and_name_change)

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> So? Everyone knows that "Facebook.com" was called "TheFacebook.com" before Sean Parker asked Mark to "drop the 'the' from 'thefacebook.com'." Anyone who watched "The Social Network" knows this.</comment>


My blog is a digital garden, not a blog - <AUTHOR> https://joelhooks.com/digital-garden <comment><USER2> A couple of observations from someone who has a scattershot blog:

* Nobody reads posts in chronological order. At best, they will find a post through a search engine or link and maybe glance at your homepage once. The most popular page on my site (by far) was something I wrote 3 years ago - it still gets hits but that doesn't translate into regular readers.

* Nobody really follows blogs by subscribing to feeds. OK, obviously some people do but it is small fraction of site readers. And of those that do, only a small fraction regularly visit the sites they are subscribed to.

The upshot is that you are better thinking of your blog as a set of independent articles rather than an actual Web Log. Publication dates are important to gauge how up-to-date the information is but almost no-one is going to scroll through a date-sorted index.

If you want users to browse around after they have read the first article, implement some sort of Related Articles or tagging system to arrange your content by topic.

<comment><USER3> > _Nobody reads posts in chronological order._

No, people don't. Google however, does. Good SEO tells you to put a date based path in the URL (and in the page metadata). This helps Google work out how fresh your content is. If someone asks Google 'xyz' and you have a _recent_ post about 'xyz' you will be ranked higher than many other 'xyz' posts.

<comment><USER4> You're advocating arranging my thoughts so a web crawling bot can sell more ads. Fuck Google.

<comment><USER5> This is... not how ads/webcrawling works? I'm probably about as anti-google as anyone here, but blindly chanting a mantra benefits no one.

If we think about this logically, it makes sense that putting content into formats that the webscraping bot recognizes would score better than formats that it doesn't recognize.

For what it's worth, you can also put the date in semantic html tags. [0, 1, 2] Not only is this pretty easy, it also makes the site more accessible to people who use screen readers, etc. Here is how I do it (statically generated). [3]

[0]: [https://www.w3schools.com/html/html5_semantic_elements.asp](https://www.w3schools.com/html/html5_semantic_elements.asp)

[1]: [http://schema.org/Article](http://schema.org/Article)

[2]: [https://schema.org/datePublished](https://schema.org/datePublished)

[3]: [https://github.com/azah/personal-site- public/blob/master/pos...](https://github.com/azah/personal-site- public/blob/master/posts/building-home-server-freenas/index.html#L65)

<comment><USER4> I'm not anti-google. I'm anti-distraction. Logically, there is a best toothpaste for gardening but shopping for it won't change the number of weeds that need pulling or put more cucumbers on the vine.

Living in the imaginary world where fame and fortune come from Google search results is easier than facing the blank page.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Gwern [0] also organizes his site in a similar fashion, for similar reasons. He writes for the "long now" [1] and organizes his site and his writing with people 60-70 years down the line in mind. Overall, I find gwern.net to be one of the best laid out and organized sites on the Internet.

[0]: [https://gwern.net](https://gwern.net)

[1]: [https://www.gwern.net/About#long-site](https://www.gwern.net/About#long- site)

<comment><AUTHOR> Thank you for sharing!

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> "Blog" comes from "weblog" and logs usually have some time of timestamp, right?

Especially when using time-relative words like "lately", I always check out the date of the post to see how relevant this piece is.

In addition to displaying a date on the post, I also appreciate dates above the content[0].

It's fine to have a curated homepage though.

[0]: [https://jlelse.blog/thoughts/2019/11/dates- above/](https://jlelse.blog/thoughts/2019/11/dates-above/)

</comment><comment><USER8> > Seriously, who cares when anything on my site got posted.

I care, because it gives me context of how relevant it might be.

<comment><USER9> Sure, it should be mentioned somewhere. But chronological order isn't necessarily the most logical order for posts on a personal site's homepage.

<comment><USER10> That's different than not having a date on the post _at all_.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> I've sort of gotten away from thinking I have a 'blog', to thinking I have a 'personal website' which features my writing on there. I think 'digital garden' is a nice little metaphor for a personal website, and that 'digital museum' is perhaps even more accurate -- a curated and aesthetically organized set of artifacts that on the whole reflect who I am and my work / life.

For the lamentation of chronological posts on here, don't see the big deal, you can tweak your website to have tag based or category based view too fairly easily; I have switched my website to have category based as the default view long ago but also offer chronological and feel quite happy with result: [http://www.andreykurenkov.com/writing/](http://www.andreykurenkov.com/writing/)

</comment><comment><USER12> My blog is also like this - [https://paul.copplest.one](https://paul.copplest.one)

Basically it's a wiki of things that I stumble upon and want to learn later (mostly from HN).

It's not so interesting for general reading, but the cheat sheets and code snippets get a lot of use from my friends in tech (and from google it seems).

I figure at the end of my life it will be a fairly complete knowledge base of everything I've ever learned

</comment><comment><USER5> I'm also revamping my website (zola->hugo) and I was debating on whether to have a chronological list, or to separate my posts into cohesive groups. Such as Programming, korean, Self, etc. See [0] for an example.

> Seriously, who cares when anything on my site got posted.

One could argue it depends what the subject matter is. If it's about a javascript framework, I do need to see that date. What I have now is a boolean I look at for each post, which controls if the date is shown in the post listings (it is always shown on the post itself).

Another argument is the date is relevant because it gives context to the discussion. Of course it would matter if a piece was written in 1829, 1929, or 1931, or even particular months in a year. Posts (and people...) don't exist in a vacuum.

[0]: [https://os.phil-opp.com/](https://os.phil-opp.com/)

<comment><USER13> Would you mind sharing your reason(s) for moving from Zola to Hugo?

When I last looked into static site generators Zola attracted my attention so I'm curious to know what your experience with it was.

Thanks!

<comment><USER5> I have happily used Zola for the last ~2+ years.

I'm migrating because I wanted to use asciidoctor instead of markdown, and hugo has better support. However I have to maintain a custom fork to get custom params to the asciidoc renderer, and to support asciidoc-diagrams. As far as I'm aware Rust has no good asciidoc crate so I would have to shave the yak and write my own implementation. Yuk.

Zola and Hugo are very similar in features, except for i18n. For most people this isn't an issue, and it's being worked on for Zola.

Also, Zola is written in Rust and Hugo in Go, so one might be more comfortable extending / forking one over the other.

You can check out many Zola examples here [0] and the source code for my website here [1].

[0]: [https://github.com/getzola/zola/blob/master/EXAMPLES.md](https://github.com/getzola/zola/blob/master/EXAMPLES.md)

[1]: [https://github.com/azah/personal-blog](https://github.com/azah/personal- blog)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> I have a similar concept for my site, with no publish dates and handwritten content/styling. One difference is that I haven't been using a static site generator, which I'm on the fence about using. On one hand it sounds like a much easier way to incorporate mixed media when I create a page, but on the other it feels like needless bloat for such a simple project.

I like the word "garden" for this style of personal site, I might start using that.

</comment><comment><USER15> Note to the author: if I click the "Check it out" link near the bottom, the URL changes but nothing happens. Win10, Edge (pre-chromium I think).

</comment><comment><USER16> Why not just use a wiki?

<comment><USER17> That is a great question... I could be off a bit here because I have looked at static site generators and blogging systems and only like 1 wiki setups (tiddly).

I get the feeling and someone else who knows more should say I am off base that static site generators/blogging systems are easier to setup/use/customize?

But yup I agree with your question, why not use a wiki... and I think the answer is interesting.

<comment><USER18> What would be the advantage of a wiki?

To me it only seems to have downsides: Not using my local text editor and having to worry about web security.

Why not just put some Markdown into a git repo?

<comment><USER19> I use tiddlywiki's node server and markdown plugin (behind a yubikey auth setup with nginx). It means that the data is stored in markdown files in a folder (with accompanying blah.md.meta files tiddlywiki maintains) but I can still edit easily from my phone, multiple computers, etc. there's a command to load files in (get the meta files and index in place), so I was thinking about using inotify to monitor a folder to be able to slurp in files from there, but I've been happy just editing through the browser and sometimes grabbing the .md files for use elsewhere.

again, the killer thing for me is the portability. vim in a terminal is only nice when I have a keyboard; if I want to keep track of a movie a friend's recommending when I have my phone, being able to pull it up is great.

also, plugins are key. org-roam has this for org-mode, but I haven't seen anything for vim that's as smooth as the backlinks setup I have in tiddlywiki, which is something like [https://giffmex.org/gifts/tiddlyblinkexample.html](https://giffmex.org/gifts/tiddlyblinkexample.html) at the bottom of each note, autodisplaying snippets of context from other notes around links to that note. I also have it display a list of links to notes tagged with the name of that note. none of that is in the markdown files, just the view layer.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> This is a powerful idea, week by week I read efforts from tech community for building personal information management tools. You just need to see Notion growth. Concept of organic wikis and that web 1.0 - 90's nostalgic idea with a bit of decentralized/self hosted content is absolutely a trend

</comment><comment><USER21> The problem is always the same when putting out a website: what's your content - your added value, who are your prospects/readers ?

Sorting by date, CTA, content strategies, etc. come after you have answered those questions. Then you can focus on how best you can make your content and your readers meet.

</comment><comment> Funes- I'd like to ask the author if he would be willing to justify the text on his "digital garden". It would make for a better reading experience in my opinion. Also, your site would benefit from grouping or ordering posts by topic.

<comment><USER22> I hate reading justified text, so I guess I know why it exists. Some people like it, good to know.

<comment> Funes- I guess you don't read many books or academic research, then.</comment></comment></comment>


SUSE Labs 2018 Presentation Videos - <AUTHOR> https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL4ibkKyj5eYSZEz0la9WRZxGkROzTnzZP <comment><AUTHOR> The SUSE Labs 2018 conference has just completed, and many of the presentations are publicly available via YouTube. See talks ranging from RISC-V and Ryzen performance to Security Theater and Participating in Linux Kernel Driver Staging. There is much information here and it's free for the taking.</comment>


Maybe: See what a command does before deciding whether you want it to happen - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/p-e-w/maybe <comment><USER2> This could be cool for my students on their Raspberry Pi's. One of the most dreaded sounds in class is "oh-no", this may help. Well I guess if I can get them to run it first.</comment>


Breadth- and Depth-First Thinking - <AUTHOR> http://kevinlawler.com/bfsdfs

<comment><USER2> Now to find a cost heuristic for thoughts so A-star thinking can be applied.</comment>


Shipping a Conference - CascadiaJS - <AUTHOR> http://www.twilio.com/blog/2012/11/shipping-a-conference-cascadiajs.html

<comment><USER2> The CascadiaJS team did an awesome job of organizing the conference!

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks, Itay. You did a killer job of speaking at it. For anyone who's into "big data" and Node.js, check out Itay's talk here:

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0TVWW8316E&list=PLLiioAb...](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0TVWW8316E&list=PLLiioAbFTbKMtmUbLWDzpUzayRLC5s2NZ&index=5&feature=plpp_video)</comment></comment>


Ngmoco's multiplatform javascript game engine - <AUTHOR> https://developer.mobage.com/#mobage-gametech

<comment><AUTHOR> I just discovered this through a mailing sent by ngmoco to developers. While Mobage is not specially interesting to me, I'm definitely captivated by the technical approach. Sadly we can't look at the code. Having an engine where the platform specific code is javascript and the rest is native could mean deploying anywhere (desktop, consoles, mobile, and even the browser) (and all with a quite beautiful scripting language when using CoffeeScript). The only engine that can do this today is Unity3D, but it requires a proprietary plugin to run on the browser.

I suppose both projects are a proof of concept that Javascript works for multi platform game development. Although how Unity ports to the consoles is a little obscure to me, I don't know if they mangle with the source code. I don't know if it's feasible (or efficient) to deploy an engine that includes a javascript interpreter on consoles.

With the traction javascript has been gaining lately, are there any open source projects going in this direction?

</comment><comment><USER2> no one gives a shit</comment>


Int a[] = {1,2,}; Weird comma allowed. Any particular reason? - <AUTHOR> http://stackoverflow.com/q/7043372/353802

<comment><USER2> I know it's like whatever he posts is golden and gets way more upvotes than it should.

</comment><comment><USER3> Jon Skeet, wtf.</comment>


Show HN: Replify – Create a REPL for any command - <AUTHOR> https://gist.github.com/danielrw7/bb88e3dad565c0d8ee54031f6b758a09 <comment><USER2> Here is my version:

      #!/bin/bash

      printf "REPL for %s\n" "$@"

      notblank()
      {
        [ $# -gt 0 ]
      }

      while true ; do
        printf "%s> " "$@"
        read -r || break;
        notblank $REPLY || continue;
        eval command \"\$@\" "$REPLY"
      done

We keep the original parameters and expand them with "$@". There is a Bash feature that read with no args reads the line into the REPLY variable. We want that to be subject to splitting.

If $REPLY expands to nothing, including multiple whitespace, then we just want to print the prompt again: not quit and not run the command with no additional arguments.

The eval trick allows $REPLY to undergo expansion and splitting, so that shell syntax can freely be used in the REPL.

Test:

      $ ~/test/replify/replify.sh git
      REPL for git
      git> rev-parse HEAD
      7ac594319e417266764a6bc041b74807f2fe13bd
      git> branch -r
        origin/HEAD -> origin/master
        origin/master
        origin/origin/master
      git> checkout "$TERM $TERM"
      error: pathspec 'xterm xterm' did not match any file(s) known to git.
      git> checkout $TERM
      error: pathspec 'xterm' did not match any file(s) known to git.

Cute, but not terribly useful without history recall and related features. This wants to be a feature of Bash. The regular Bash repl should have a prefix variable so it can appear to be in a sub-mode for a particular command.

Submit a patch for Bash to do this, and maybe you have something. Bash has a hook feature for command execution, IIRC, so this may be somehow doable without modifying Bash.

<comment><USER3> [https://github.com/hanslub42/rlwrap](https://github.com/hanslub42/rlwrap)

EDIT: beat to the punch, should've refreshed.

</comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> I just found out about a very similar command [1] that has more features.

[1] [https://github.com/mchav/With](https://github.com/mchav/With)

</comment><comment><USER4> It's only a REPL in the most trivial sense if it doesn't remember variables or results between commands. I suppose it would be easy to store the output in $LAST or $R1, $R2, ..., and then eval the input.

</comment><comment><USER5> Another generic `repl` utility, this one in ruby: [https://github.com/defunkt/repl](https://github.com/defunkt/repl)

<comment><USER6> I find it hilarious that there's a ruby version of a tool that can be implemented in 10 lines of bash. It's like atwood's law all over again. Use the right tool for the job, please.

<comment><USER7> I'd be happy to see your 10 lines bash version of this ruby tool, with the same options/properties (debug messages, customizable prompt, history logging, same safeguards, rlwrap support, man page).

<comment><USER6> You're missing the point. I could do all of that in a similar (or likely smaller) number of lines with bash compared to the ruby tool, only mine would be much faster and wouldn't depend on the enormous ruby runtime.

<comment><USER8> the bash version might be technically faster, but i doubt it would be faster in any practical, meaningful way: most of the time spent in the script is waiting for input, or waiting for a command to return. that it need not depend on ruby is a perfectly valid argument though, and is in fact why i bothered redoing it in POSIX shell.

to do so however didn't just require a similar number of lines, it actually required 4 more (though to be fair, both scripts have comments and a fair bit of formatting, so it may not be a fair comparison. also it probably doesn't need stating, but i'm a bit of a hack, so my implementation maybe shouldn't be the reference point. but i digress)

in any event, i don't think atwood's law comes into play, given that a) this isn't in javascript and b) defunkt is a well known member of the ruby community who spends a lot of time working in ruby and probably wrote this to actually use it, as quickly as he could think of it. his choice of language here is perfectly reasonable in that context.

if you remain convinced that the only correct language for such a tool is bash/shell, i imagine OP certainly welcomes PRs; i know i do.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Related: rlwrap adds some of readline's features like history to REPLs that don't have those things out of the box.

</comment><comment><USER10> Neat trick - the only change I made is to exit the while loop by typing "exit". That way the enter key runs the command with no arguments, and you can exit with control+c or by typing "exit".

<comment><USER11> And what if you want "exit" as argument. You should think bigger in general if your into tooling for others....

<comment><USER10> Yes, if you have a commonly used command that has "exit" as a commonly used flag that means something other than exiting, then by all means use something more specific like "exit2".

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> This is pretty cool!

</comment><comment><USER13> This could significantly enhance my Docker in the CLI user experience.</comment>


John Philip Holland: The Father of the Modern Submarine - <AUTHOR> http://interestingengineering.com/john-philip-holland-father-modern-submarine/ <comment><USER2> "John Philip Holland was born ... on the February the 29th 1840. ... Sadly his father's first wife Anne Foley from Kilkee died in 1835."

Strange. Even if mentioning the first wife is useful, it's sad in general that she died, but if she hadn't, the subject of the article presumably wouldn't have existed!

</comment><comment><USER3> What about Peral's Submarine? (Spanish submarine) «she was launched 8 September 1888.» [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peral_Submarine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peral_Submarine)

</comment><comment><USER4> Incidentally, I was just visiting Liscannor in County Clare, Ireland over the weekend. Our driver passed JPH's museum there. This should probably count as a Baader-Meinhof Phenomenon (aka frequency illusion).</comment>


Top Russian Cybercrimes Agent Arrested on Charges of Treason - <AUTHOR> https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/25/world/europe/sergei-mikhailov-russian-cybercrimes-agent-arrested.html <comment><AUTHOR> Of particular interest:

He was detained along with one of Russia's leading private-sector cybersecurity experts, Ruslan Stoyanov, the head of computer incident response investigations at the Kaspersky Lab, which makes antivirus programs.

The company confirmed in a statement that Mr. Stoyanov had been arrested, but said his arrest "has nothing to do with Kaspersky Lab and its operations."</comment>


Twittering in Africa - <AUTHOR> http://www.tomtaylor.co.uk/blog/2007/04/04/twittering-in-africa/ <comment><USER2> Twitter's apparent success baffles me beyond words... can anyone explain to me what makes this more exciting than constantly changing your AIM away message?

<comment><AUTHOR> I find it a good way to keep in touch with other people I know in the tech/startup scene. Unlike aim/skype/email you dont have to dedicate enough time to have a whole conversation. Its great because it's so lightweight.</comment></comment>


Top enterprise products of the year 2010 - <AUTHOR> http://www.readwriteweb.com/enterprise/2010/12/top-10-enterprise-products-of-2010.php

<comment><USER2> "Salesforce.com's biggest differentiator in this _commodified_ market is its decade-long track record of providing a solid Software-as-a-Service."

Freudian slip? I guess the two interpretations ("the market has turned into a toilet" and "the market has become commoditized") aren't _too_ far apart ;)</comment>


Making an embedded Linux computer - <AUTHOR> http://hforsten.com/making-embedded-linux-computer.html <comment><USER2> Wow, I had mistakenly assumed that you couldn't do 0.8 mm BGAs on a hobbyist- level PCB. The solder lands are actually within recommendations.

The author mentioned that this is a test board without much hooked up. That really helps, since not every pin needs to be broken out. On a more complex design with higher pin coverage you'd need more layers to be able to route it all.

<comment><USER3> I underwrite that wow also, I have fantasies about my own custom FPGA designs, looks that it could be done with garage-like resources following this workflow!

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Thank you for a clear and detailed description of your design process, especially how you made it work with basic tools and techniques.

Maybe I won't be so scared of BGA now.

<comment><AUTHOR> I shared this from Henrik Forsten's blog. It is worth reading all his other articles, too, if you are interested in computer architecture, electronics, programming or math. He has a very wide range of interests.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> Site seems overloaded, cached version:

[http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:deo-53h...](http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:deo-53h8218J:hforsten.com/making- embedded-linux-computer.html+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk)

<comment><USER6> You want to add "&strip=1" to the url, or else it will still try to load resources from the downed site

[http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:deo-53h...](http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:deo-53h8218J:hforsten.com/making- embedded-linux-computer.html+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&strip=1)

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> This was also featured on hackaday [http://hackaday.com/2014/07/11/an-amazing- diy-single-board-a...](http://hackaday.com/2014/07/11/an-amazing-diy-single- board-arm-computer-with-bga/)

</comment><comment><USER8> So good. Highlights: toaster oven with custom controller, and learning about [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UBIFS](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UBIFS) for raw NAND access.

<comment><USER9> More info on the toaster oven: [http://hforsten.com/toaster-oven-reflow- controller.html](http://hforsten.com/toaster-oven-reflow-controller.html)

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> Nicely done. I did not realize that OSH Park could be made to work with BGA devices. And I'm really impressed he got it into a 4 layer board rather than a 6 or 8 layer board.

</comment><comment><USER11> Really impressed with this. More posts on Henrik's blog show that he has quite a breadth of knowledge in H/W. Quite the hacker!

</comment><comment><USER12> Could anyone tell me what PCB/schematic software that is?

<comment><USER13> KICAD?

[http://www.kicad- pcb.org/display/KICAD/KiCad+EDA+Software+Su...](http://www.kicad- pcb.org/display/KICAD/KiCad+EDA+Software+Suite)

(from the submitted site, clicky the cct diagram to get a PDF, in lower right corner KICAD is mentioned)

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> How difficult would it be to add 1 or (better) 2 Ethernets to this?

(commenting to be able to find this later.)

<comment><USER15> One is pretty simple (you just need an Ethernet PHY and a connector with magnetics built in (or connector + separate magnetic transformer).

Two would be harder, because the chip only has one Ethernet MAC built in. You'd need another controller chip and a fair bit of supporting circuitry. But it could be done.

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> awesome, how much does it cost totally?</comment>