Ask HN: Those with intense focus, how do you do it? - <AUTHOR> I've been having intense focus problems (beyond normal distractibility), and each year they get worse.  I'm in grad school, and the inability to focus is becoming a huge problem.  It takes so much work to get into something.  On rare occasion, I'll be able to get into what I'm working on and then I can focus non-stop for 10-12 hours, but it's near impossible to just sit down and get 30 minutes of work done on something.  Even those 10 hour sessions require an hour or two to get started.
I am looking for advice beyond the normal "minimize distractions".  My best attempt has been to go into a plain, featureless room without windows and use a software program that blocks any time-wasting internet site.  But I just end up staring at the wall, thinking about other things instead.  Or if I start reading a textbook, I'll just fall asleep or read the same line over and over again.
I'm not sure exactly what the cause of this is.  The bad thing is that the stuff I need to work on is mostly things I'm really interested in (research) although some of it I am not so interested in (classwork).  It's very frustrating, and it doesn't feel like it falls in the "normal" range of focus issues anymore.  I'm quite certain it's not ADD, because I didn't really have this problem when I was younger.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.  I know many in the entrepreneur crowd have developed techniques to maintain rigorous focus (otherwise you wouldn't be a very good entrepreneur) so perhaps the HN crowd has a unique solution that may work for me. <comment><USER2> Here is how I answered this question on May 15, 2008, (and several times since) here on Hacker News. Not much has changed because this strategy has always been "old faithful" to me:

* * * * *

The single most important thing I do to "achieve laser focus and concentration" is to work in such a way that I don't need "laser focus and concentration" to get my work done.

This has to be done the night before.

I always quit all online work at least 2 hours before bedtime and print whatever I'm working on.

Then I go into any other room with program listings, blank paper, and pens (especially red!) and plan out all of tomorrow's work.

All analysis, design, and refactoring must be done at this time. I do not allow myself to sleep until the next day's work is laid out. I also do not allow myself to get back onto the computer. The idea is to have a clear "vision" of what I am going to accomplish the next day. The clearer the better.

This does 2 things. First, I think about it all night (maybe even dream about it). Second, I can't wait to get started the next day.

I always wake up and start programming immediately. Once I get going, it's easy to keep going. Any difficulties are probably because I didn't plan well enough the night before.

Not sure if that's the answer you're looking for, but whatever gets the work done...

* * * * *

Original thread: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=191199>

Also #49 here: <http://v25media.s3.amazonaws.com/edw519_mod.pdf>

<comment><USER3> Awesome, I have noticed that this is the key. When it comes to doing something, most of us have the ability to focus once we know what needs to be doen and exactly how it needs to be done. The problem usually stems when we have to make choices on what to do and how, then we are paralyzed by all the possible choices. Love your answer.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> I have found that when I have such problems, I'm usually missing one of three things:

Sometimes I need a clearer idea of _what needs to be done_. Is it vague? Make it more specific so you know where to get started. Is it open-ended? Give it an end-point so you know how far you are from being finished. Am I even thinking of the very next step I need to take?

Sometimes I need a clearer idea of _why I'm doing it_. It's very easy to dissociate tasks from the original motivations, and it starts feeling like just "stuff you gotta do". So I take a minute and either re-associate the task in front of me with some larger or longer-term goal that is _presently_ appealing (i.e. it doesn't have to be about "passion"), or I come up with a completely ad-hoc motive like turning it into a game or giving it some kind of constraint that makes it a little more challenging. Sometimes I find that the thing I'm trying to do is actually something I don't care about the original purpose of anymore, which quite suddenly makes it easy to stop and move on to something else.

Sometimes I find that I'm missing a _sense of confidence that it's what I should be doing right now_. It may be that I'm trying to work on a very unimportant thing and should switch to one of the things I keep being distracted by, but I have to consciously compare them before I can realize that that's why I'm getting distracted. Other times, I realize that the things that are bubbling up in my mind can wait, and the act of actually thinking about them and realizing that puts them to rest. I don't try to force myself into working on "the most important thing" at all times.

I try to work out these questions _only_ when I happen to notice that I'm not really "doing" the thing that I'm supposedly doing, whether it's work or fun or even sleep. I don't try to pre-emptively make sure I have these things, either. -- I think of it as a way to answer the brain's objections to what you're doing rather than a way to force it to do what you want.

Disclaimer: I am not a very good entrepreneur.

</comment><comment><USER5> If it helps at all, I "suffer" from the exact same thing. I once studied procrastination while I was procrastinating at work and here are my 3 tricks that work, at least half the time:

1\. Just don't do what you have to do. Just sit there. BUT the catch is you are not allowed to do ANYTHING else. After about 15 minutes of doing nothing, your interest creeps back for your the task you are working on.

2\. Make a big 3 list. At the very beginning of the day, write down the 3 most important things to get done that day. Only work on those things.

3\. Cut up the elephant. This is the biggest thing helps me. Many times the items on our todo lists are really gargantuan tasks! Your brain unconsciously knows this and will try to avoid these loaded tasks. Break them down into bite sized elephant chunks. Elephant wasn't eaten in a day ; ) You'll feel better as you knock through those smaller todos. I also recommend Tudumo (www.tudumo.com) as a todo tracker. It has a lot of keyboard shortcuts. I have a list called "elephant chunks" and as soon as I tackle an item on the main list, I create the elephant chunks list and start hammering those suckers down.

I still lapse into massive procrastination, but these tricks have helped me a lot. You aren't alone. And I don't think you are lazy. If you are anything like me, this is probably some of the stuff you are most passionate about and it's killing you that you are avoiding it. Make a new big 3 list every day and don't give up!

<comment><USER6> Somewhere I read that you should use the 1-3-5 rule: each day do 1 big task, 3 medium and 5 small. However personally I prefer using 1-2-3.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> My personal read on this is that, if you have difficulty focusing, you're not really interested in what you're doing.

I say this because everyone I have met in my life -- including myself -- who had excellent focus, also had a transcendent passion for what he was focused on.

Based on your description, you simply aren't interested in your studies or your work, and that is the real problem, not focus per se. Maybe you're having second thoughts about your life's direction or your school major.

> It takes so much work to get into something.

This isn't the voice of someone who is passionate about what he's doing. I think that's the problem. You're asking for advice about how to deal with your life as it is, but my advice is to consider making changes to your life, to your work, to your studies, in a direction consistent with your real interests.

<comment><AUTHOR> > if you have difficulty focusing, you're not really interested in what you're > doing.

I'm afraid if that's really the case, then I'm not interested in anything at all. Which is certainly a much bigger issue than focusing. But I don't think that's the case because I really enjoy seeing the results of my work and I've always been able to interest myself in math/science _before_ in my life, so as far as I can tell I'm still interested. (Heck, just look at how many comments I post on HN about my research.)

<comment><USER8> Interesting doesn't necessarily mean fun. Try doing something that's _fun_ just to get yourself going.

Fun could mean coding something in a new programming language or something. It could mean writing a game or doing something mischievous. Something that increases your productivity momentum.

Once you've got yourself going it's easier to take on bigger challenges.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> In my case, the thing was not about eliminating distractions, but about providing a stimulating enough challenges.

Eliminate distractions all you want - if the task is boring, and the environment not stimulating, you'll sooner become crazy than focus.

I also used to stress a lot about not being able to focus. And stress alone hindered my ability even further. Which caused me to stress even more, and so on. The revelation came, when my coach asked me "so, does stressing about work help you?" I decided to take it light - if I cannot work, so be it. Lo and behold, a couple days after letting go, I went into an uberdrive, and built a product which I struggled with for months..

Right now, my recipe is: \- if the work doesn't flow, I let it go. I go for a walk, I do sports, wait for a muse. And have faith that it will come \- I try to keep my environment stimulating - I had to go a couple friendships, and stop doing activities which no longer helped me develop myself \- I try to have a couple kinds of activities lined up - so when I cannot focus on programming, I do marketing, or accounting in my startup. \- A good diet helps a lot as well.

But everybody is different. It's important to discover what works and what doesn't - in your case removing distractions clearly doesn't work. Perhaps you could try changing your learning habits (e.g. use Inkling, or Coursera instad of traditional books, or try group learning?), or try finding a different subject, or a different approach to the subject?

<comment><USER10> Your experience sounds familiar. Go with the flow. Let go of forcing to do something. Get inspiration. Work when you are inspired. These work for me also the best.

This is also why day jobs are so difficult and unnatural. You are forced to complete tasks that do not always come naturally.

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> It sounds like your brain enjoys lengthy productive learning sessions and is bored at the idea of jumping between topics at 30minute intervals - "hey brain, just absorb this for me, oh and this, this too" Your brain just shrugs and says "where's the fun in that?"

Make something, create something, build something. Instead of being passive (reading a screen or a book) put your whole brain to task on a project that needs solving, designing and leaves you with an end product.

For me, it took a long time to realise that I absorb information SO fast when I'm immersed in it.

I've written in the past about all the creative strategies I used to get through my exams - whatever you enjoy doing, try to incorporate it alongside the topic you're learning.

People think they tax their brain too much with study but the fact that your brain wanders off into it's own thoughts or sends you to sleep show you it's actually looking for something more challenging to solve. Engage your brain with a more challenging & creative problem.

</comment><comment><USER12> I too often have difficulty focussing on a task, often getting bogged down in reading email or 'quickly' checking the news.

To get around this I use the pomodoro technique [1] and [2]

I have also found quite a bit of success using paper lists; If I write down everything productive I need to get done (mostly on a high-level like 'look into bug nnnn') and only allow myself to work on the items on the list.

I also actively work on keeping my mind on task; if I find myself wandering off and thinking about something important I will write myself a quick note so that I can remember it later, this helps get it off my mind so I can get back to working.

[1] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pomodoro_Technique> [2] <http://www.pomodorotechnique.com/>

<comment><USER13> I like the inverse of to-do lists: a have-done list. Say you need to get a large task done for the day. That's what you need to do, but getting to the point of getting it done contains a lot of smaller actionable items (e-mailing people, setting up new servers, whatever, etc).

I then write that down as 'done' lists. Or basically, a 'what I did today' list, even if it is small stuff. You end up feeling more productive, because you often don't realise what you actually DID do in a day.

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> John Cleese's lecture on creativity [1] was really helpful for me and is something I'm using to get into the flow state myself. The 5 factors Cleese says you need to get creative is nicely summed up in Brainpicking's blog post [2].

Highly recommended!

[1] <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9rtmxJrKwc> [1] [http://www.brainpickings.org/index.php/2012/04/12/john- clees...](http://www.brainpickings.org/index.php/2012/04/12/john-cleese-on- creativity-1991/)

</comment><comment><USER15> As a teenager I was always a bit of a cynic about anything that wasn't an exact science, the ideas of introspection of my own mind for things I dismissed as hippy bullshit of the organic food variety.

However later I found that meditation helps my mind and even my asthma a lot. Taking the time for 5-15 minutes every day to just focus on my breathing in the lotus position really does make a difference to my productivity that day.

Also getting and staying of HN / Reddit / SO for a day helps too...

</comment><comment><USER10> Been struggling with this also for my whole life. Solutions that work _for me_:

1\. Before doing anything, figure out: Is this what I am flowing to do now? Or is it something else ? If I feel like I have to force myself to do something, usually I am doing it against the flow. This is why I hate dayjobs.

2\. Go for a swim/run/do yoga/meditate. All of these help me to focus better, when my body is relaxed, so is the mind. Create a routine for yourself, when I relax my body right in the morning, it is usually a good day and I get things done. If I skip any of these, it is harder to sit down and stay in one place.

3\. If something feels impossible, do something else. Dance, go out for a walk, practice close combat weapons, something physical.

4\. Break the problem into small pieces, write those pieces down. Complete one at a time. Preferably so that each piece has different kinds of things to do, like program, then design, then do some writing. So that it keeps interesting and not just repeating the same thing all day.

Also, when I truly have to force myself to complete something, I have found one good technique to get me into the zone: put on my headphones, turn on some good trance/psytrance, and just dance into the zone for 5-10 minutes, then continue coding in this state of trance. Helps to get in to the flow.

</comment><comment><USER16> What is it in your field that really makes you jump up and down with joy and amazement?

I sometimes have similar problems (though by far not as bad) and what works for me is to leave a straightforward problem lying on the desk so it's the first thing I see in the morning. Additionally, there's a (very short) list with achievable things I want to do that day. (A lot less than I could do, more a 'at least this far' list.) When I get bored with one task there's usually another one on the list that's ok. And not all textbooks are equally boring. Oh, and deadlines [1]. I don't always follow this, but when I do, I get some stuff done and it's quite satisfying, even though it's just the 'minimal stuff list'.

When you say intense focus, I rather think of short activities like sword training (wonderful state of mind!) or a few minutes of coding the 'heart' of a short program, not longer periods of work.

</rant>

[1]<http://rcrosing.home.xs4all.nl/calhob.html>

edit: You might also wanna check Lesswrong, they have a lot of ideas about these problems: <http://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Akrasia>

</comment><comment><USER17> My tricks from school:

Short term: Colored pens, white paper, make cheat sheets (as if you were planning to bring them with you, but leave them at home).

Slightly longer term: Get hold of real exam assignments (if possible and allowed) as soon as possible. This helps motivation quite significantly because you can see what you would make you fail today. Knowing one assignement that I wouldn't pass does a whole lot to motivation.

Do stuff. I created 3d models (of yet to be invented furniture and tools) out of cardboard (empty pizza boxes where my favourite.)

Attempt at getting good/fast in everything you touch. But let no failure ruin your day.

Long term: Find and reinforce motivation. Why are you reading that textbook in the first place? Because you are going to be good at something. Why? Because you are going to get good work. Why? Because you want to change the world/help someone you know/etc.

Learn to defend yourself against your own and others critisism while not blaming others: There all kinds of things that rise against us: disabilities makes thing harder, economy (hard to study while your brain is working non stop on how to pay x), etc. Tell yourself: If I manage all this, that will be quite a story to tell.

</comment><comment><USER18> I have very similar issues (in fact, I should be working on a mandatory assignment right now). I find that using something like Trello or <http://kanbanflow.com>, or just a simple notebook, to split up tasks into smaller tasks is a good thing.

I'll have problems getting started (and I still do) doing something without splitting it up as much as I can first, and I also find using a Pomodoro timer is very helpful.

Set a timer for 25 minutes. During those 25 minutes you will be focused and work. When it rings you set it to 5 minutes and have a break, do whatever you want. When it rings you go back to work.

I'm not exactly sure why this helps but having a set amount of time for 'work time' and a set amount of time for 'break time' helps me focus. That way you just avoid going to HN or Reddit and all other things fun during those 25 minutes, and since it's only 25 minutes at a time you get a little reward when you take a break.

After having done like 4-5 of these 25 minute sessions you can take a longer 30 minute break for some food or just relaxing.

I've managed to use this with fairly good success working 6-8 hour days at uni studying for exams.

</comment><comment><USER19> A combination of these have often worked for me.

1) Stop drinking alcohol (after about 3 weeks I find my thinking is a lot clearer and more I'm interested in learning/working).

2) Change your work location - drastically if you can but often the next room will do.

3) If you're working alone find a space where you can work with others in the room, even if the tasks are completely separate. (or vice versa)

4) Get those big tasks that weigh on you out of the way. Realize how much better not having them around will make you feel, and that should be enough incentive to get them done.

5) Tutor somebody.

6) Stop thinking about work/study all the time, clear your head by listening to stories, I like radiolab from WNYC because it's not too tech. (Something like this would be in lieu of meditation which would probably be better long term.)

7) Wake up earlier.

8) Reward yourself for tasks. For me this used to be ciggies, which then transitioned to cups of tea.

9) Start your day with small easy tasks. If you're thinking about a productive day in terms of 10-12 hours you are likely scaring your sub conscious. Success is 20 minutes of work early in the day. Make that your goal. Everything that comes after is a bonus, and fun.

10) Switch careers (this is what I eventually did)

</comment><comment><USER20> The textbook is probably too much text for you - your brain gets bored and you fall asleep. If you're studying for an exam: Try to summarize what you want to remember in as few words as possible - 1 or 2 words per point. You'll have a page at most for an entire unit/subject (don't worry if no one else gets the page). Study that instead, and I think you'll be less likely to be bored. For each point, very quickly (e.g. less than 2-3 seconds), go through the entire point with your mind, then move on to the next. Repeat points that you feel you can't process as fast, they are what you need to get more familiar with. Once you get to the end, as long as you still got energy, go back to the beginning. Eventually try to recall every point the unit without even the single page of paper.

Do this as soon as possible after you wake up. (e.g. study after breakfast). Get a glass of water or a small sandwich every hour and resume studying.

The idea is to process as much information (rather than text) as you are physically able, so you don't ever get bored, and you can stay focused.

Don't be surprised if you get really tired after 3-4 hours. Yesterday I woke up at 12. Started studying at 1, and finished up by 5pm. I was so tired, I had to go sleep for a couple of hours. Had dinner then went to bed for the night.

Get lots of sleep. After a day where you have intensive studied like this, 10-12 hours of sleep is good. Sleep helps your brain move stuff you studied that day into your long term memory. This way you only have to study something once, so that you'll not have the opportunity to get bored studying the same thing again.

Oh, and I do everything on paper so I never have my computer in front of me when I'm studying like this.

Don't know about you, but works for me!

</comment><comment><USER21> Tricks like reducing distractions and using your time better are interesting and sometimes helpful, but also a great way to procrastinate. When you're an adult, you become more self-aware, which probably explains why it wasn't a problem in the past.

I agree with what others have said - you may simply not be interested in what you're doing. If that's the case, change.

I have three bits of advice:

1\. It could be you're not sleeping enough. Sleep more and drink less caffeine and alcohol.

2\. If you aim to do a great, great, job of whatever you do, it can become much more rewarding. Be a perfectionist. (nb for some people perfectionism leads to procrastination, but not for most).

3\. Get on with it. Don't allow yourself to read any further advice on how to be effective. Get up early, get working, work your ass off, have a fixed schedule with breaks and don't try to do long hours. I think an awful lot of people worry too much about productivity rather than just getting on and doing the work. It's also a case of momentum - once you start getting some feedback on what you've achieved, your hard work will feel justified and you'll be more motivated.

</comment><comment><USER22> The lack of focus can be directly derived from the lack of interest, vision and love on what you're doing.

When you're thinking about other things, it means what you're about to do is so much of a chore to you that you subconsciously procrastinate and despise doing it. Remember that what you're working on is something you love; you'll soon find out that everything else doesn't matter. Love isn't a feeling, it's a decision to commit because you found value no one else can't seem to see.

It's clear that the most productive people are people in love in what they do. They find joy and value even in their smallest chores/tasks. They don't need to "minimize distractions" or use "software program that blocks any time- wasting internet site", it's natural for them to have a distaste for other things except on what's currently right in-front of them.

The practical task lists or methods on "how to focus" are easy as pie, there's a lot of content tackling, although looking for something you love working on or reminding yourself that you should love what you're doing - that's something only you can answer.

</comment><comment><USER23> If you want to fix the cause, I would suggest finding a good quality meditation teacher and learn meditation. Your mind is obviously scattered, you have to learn, and I mean _learn_ how to focus. I've been practicing meditation and similar arts for over 6 years, can't really recommend it highly enough.

I will tell you upfront: it's hard word, but it pays off tremendously.

</comment><comment><USER24> It's personal. You have found what works for you: "I can focus non-stop for 10-12 hours", and if "Even those 10 hour sessions require an hour or two to get started." then force yourself to spend those 1-2 hours to get started.

A key trick I use is to have _doable_ tasks. Getting started is the hard bit, so start small. Then, acknowledge that you made progress instead of putting it down. Why? Because putting it down will destroy your motivation, your interest and your focus. it's also a distraction (you're thinking about how you don't have focus, instead of what you're supposed to be focussed on).

      If you want to hit a bird on the wing, you must have all your will in focus, you
      must not be thinking about yourself, and equally, you must not be thinking about
      your neighbor: you must be living in your eye on that bird. Every achievement is a
      bird on the wing.

note: "you must not be thinking about yourself"

</comment><comment><USER25> For myself, It's a strong desire to learn something new. I can be sitting in a noisy place and tune out my surroundings, staying focused on the matter in question, as long as I can read the words I can put them together in varying ways until they all work together.

Sometimes I sit here for 36+ hours straight. I just can't give up until the task has been completed. The tasks are taken in small portions, and I do take breaks, but not as often as I should.

However, if I have no appreciation for the goals of the project, I can procrastinate in the same manner as I focus.

It's a dual edged blade, and you can cut your own line if you're not careful. Having a strong desire to achieve your goals should be your priority, and having a vision for the long term is crucial in order to carry you forward through those times when you are less than motivated.

Balance is key, as is moderation.

</comment><comment><USER26> Reduce distractions is a good start.

Close email windows, HN, put your phone on silent, find a space in which noise does not intrude, remove the clock.

Lock out any external signal that might distract you. It might be noise, it might be discomfort in a mouse you're using.

Then the second part is that you've got to enjoy what you do. The craft, the elegance of it. Take pride in wanting to do it well, refine that. Look for improvements and do it even better. Be excited by the improvements. This is the undefinable quality of Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance.

With those two things; reducing distraction and find the beauty, elegance and satisfaction in the simple and mundane... I found it's possible to totally immerse yourself in whatever task is at hand. Just taking care of distractions isn't enough, you need the pursuit of quality too.

</comment><comment><USER27> I have a few things I do to stay focused, some you can control and some you can't:

1\. Eat well, sleep well, work out and relax\mediate\etc. <\-- this is really important for me

2\. Keep simple, simple lists. (Someone on HN actually made one of my favorites recently: <http://1-3-5.com/>)

3\. Make sure your list is kept simple. Remove things from it, do not add to it without removing from it.

4\. Work on things that inspire you. Rethink what you're working on if you're not inspired by it. ( This is sometimes out of your control )

5\. Wear headphones and do not listen to lyrics. Classical is actually my favorite for getting stuff done.

6\. Use a white board to keep track of your ideas and thought process. Notebooks can work, too.

</comment><comment><USER28> For the last 8 years, I've training myself like a Pavlovian dog.

All I need to focus is my headphones and the song programmed with the mood I want.

Many songs have come & disappeared in my playlist of "mind silence" but right now, if you play "Intro - XX" in a loop into my ears then I will sit down and work.

All that helps me is to get started.

It helps that I love my work - after I really get started, my train of thought is rarely derailed.

But despite loving it, I do need to be manipulated into putting in the first 40-50 minutes of time - _every_ day.

And music makes me go with the flow.

</comment><comment><USER29> Are you unable to focus at all times even when you do something you completely enjoy? Or are you unable to focus only on boring tasks? That's two different problems and solutions.

</comment><comment><USER30> I can focus for more than 12 hours at a time... if I love what I'm working on.

When I find myself distracted, I use the pomodoro technique. I set a kitchen timer for 30 minutes and leave it in another room. In those thirty minutes, I am not allowed any distractions - no facebook, no email, etc. I just focus on one task until it's complete. When the timer goes off, I have five minutes to relax or work out. Then I set the timer again.

</comment><comment><USER31> I (informally) study procrastination and attention management, and maintain The Attention Management Blog (<http://attnmgmtblog.com>). That's not to say my advice will be better than anyone else's in this thread. But there are two really simple things I've found that have helped me maintain focus and momentum, especially when I'm feeling especially distracted.

First, break your larger tasks into absurdly tiny steps. I mean, embarrassingly small steps. "Why would I even need to write that down?"-small steps. As others in this thread have mentioned, when a task is too large, or has too many dependencies, or the next concrete action step is unclear, the easiest thing for our brain to do is to punt it. Our current brains have _a lot_ of confidence in our future brains. Too much, in fact. Breaking a task into steps that are so small that you can't help but do them is hugely helpful.

Second, write things down. Two parts to this. First is that you need a trusted system to capture everything you have to do (all those big tasks, and all the tiny steps that comprise them). I use a Field Notes notebook (<http://fieldnotesbrand.com/>), and find that writing stuff down on paper is essential. I'm not sure whether it's because it's an analog break from digital stuff, or whether it's more flexible for the kinds of notes I'm writing down, or what. But writing it down on paper is essential. I also have a larger "programmer's notebook" (<http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00007LV4B/>) that I use for longer notes. The second part of the "write things down" piece of advice is to write down what you're working on right now. That can be on paper. I usually prefer to jot it down here: <http://charliepark.org/rightnow/> (disclosure: mine, totally free), as it's a temporary notepad that takes up zero resources (no notes I have to save, no Post-Its on my desk I have to revisit and think through, "did I get this done yet?").

One of the best writers on this is David Allen, with his book _Getting Things Done_ , which your local library will have. I also like Cal Newport (<http://calnewport.com/blog/>). And, of course, if you want short pointers to longer articles, I post a not-overwhelming stream of stuff at <http://attnmgmtblog.com>.

</comment><comment><USER32> Odds are good that those with intense focus won't be answering your question because they're too busy being focused ;)

</comment><comment><USER33> My pick-me-up checklist for when I'm procrastinating too much for comfort:

* Get plenty of sleep. If you're sleepy, take a nap. Go to bed early, wake up early.

* Drink plenty of water.

* Eat well, whatever that means for you (for me its cutting back on sugary things and processed foods).

* Do some exercise.

If you take care of these basics, for me at least, the rest seems to fall into place.

</comment><comment><USER34> > Or if I start reading a textbook, I'll just fall asleep or read the same > line over and over again.

This happens to me if I'm trying to read something too far beyond my level of knowledge. Skip back a few chapters and drill yourself on their content until the thing you were stuck on becomes easy/natural.

Also, sleep.

</comment><comment><USER8> Do something fun, even if it has no immediate value. Motivation runs on momentum. Do whatever seems like the most fun.

<http://www.physics.ohio-state.edu/~kilcup/262/feynman.html>

</comment><comment><USER35> Can you expand a bit on how it has gotten worse over the years? How were you better at focusing before? How do you know it has gotten worse? I can imagine it may be especially frustrating if it is something that has been worsening over time.

</comment><comment><USER36> Good physical health. Seriously.

I've had troubles with this (some injuries), and -- anecdotally -- the correspondence is direct and _very_ significant.

</comment><comment><USER37> I find the Pomodoro technique simple and effective.

<http://www.pomodorotechnique.com/>

</comment><comment><USER38> For years I've been able to sit down and get intense on solving a problem. YMMV, and maybe you'll just cherry pick some of the points. Also, about none of this is original, they're all concepts I've picked up from various fields, thinkers and people over the last 8 or so years.

\--

This is how I do it:

1\. Get your location right. I have a desk and computer for doing work on, and a completely separate one for playing/watching movies/just about anything else.

This location should have one purpose, and you should be cool with that. If you want to use the location for anything else, you'll mess with it.

It's for work. Nothing else.

Note, I say location because it doesn't have to be a desk. A laptop, comfy chair, and a nice room might work for you. Or maybe sitting outside is your thing.

2\. Plan your time. If you want to get serious work done 30 minutes wont cut it. You won't even be able to get ready to work in 30 minutes.

Set aside a few hours. I usually split my 8 hour day into a ~3 hour chunk, lunch, then another 3-4 hours. For me, the break is almost always useful. On one hand to eat, because eating is cool. (I've forgotten to eat enough times while coding, to not let that happen again.)

These blocks should not be rigid, if you're on a roll don't stop. Just remember to eat (good food, not crap. crap food does not help the brain).

3\. Coffee. Might not be for you, but a well timed coffee with food in your stomach can do wonders for your productivity. I'm sure it's psychosomatic but I swear I type faster with good coffee.

Actually thats another point. Get good coffee. Here in Melbourne, you practically trip over it, there's good real coffee everywhere. If you can't get a real coffee, try some good black tea.

They're both acquired tastes, so find a friend who loves them who can show you the ropes.

I'm not a fan of energy drinks, the release is too fast. A good tea or coffee in the morning will keep you going until 3pm, which is the perfect time for a second one.

I almost never go more than 2, you don't want too much of a tolerance to it.

4\. Scope your work. If we take the analogy of a good golf swing, you need to plan what you're about to do. But like a good golf swing, it should be more mentally thinking about the problem, as opposed to over thinking where the club must go to hit the ball.

For a good 8 hour chunk of time, taking 30-40 minutes to get into the right frame of mind to solve a problem is the way to go.

5\. Music. Now's a good time to start some music, incase you haven't already got something playing.

But kill the lyrics.

Any lyric heavy music, or anything that if mentally intensive to listen to - is sapping your brain power. Not cool, your brain is here to work. It's not time to enjoy music the way you would normally.

This music has a purpose. It's there solely to get you into, and keep you in a state of trance.

Surprisingly trance music is pretty good at that. But I'm more into electro, house, electro swing (Caravan Palace anyone?).

If I could reccomend anything here, get a nice comfortable pair of open cans. That is, circumaural headphones that cover your ears, and are open backed meaning the sound will leak out. It's very important that the sound can leak out, as it prevents a pressure on your ears. Closed headphones are generally amazing to listen to, but they can become incredibly fatiguing after a few hours.

Get a pair of headphones that barely even feel as if you're wearing them, that sound amazing. You may need to get a headphone amp as well, they're only $20-80. Do it. Trust me, I was once an audio engineer.

Also, spend a good bit of money on professional headphones. Not only do they sound amazing, are made to take a bit of a beating, they're almost always designed to be repaired.

I'm a fan of Sennheiser, AKG, Sony, et al.

Beats are for chumps.

I don't recommend spending less than $200.

You're going to wear these every single day for up to 8 hours. Get something that brings you joy to wear and hear. It will also help get you in the mood to work, knowing you get to listen to these awesome cans. If you can, use them exclusively for work.

6\. Do your work. Alright, you've got a sweet location. You've got time to yourself. (I often use a sign telling people to email me, instead of distracting me. A small question that throws you out of your trance can cost up to 20 minutes each, get a few of them and there goes your session.)

You've had your choice of stimulant. Please make it tea or coffee. They're so much better, just don't go overboard. Having 4 in a day scares me.

You have an idea of what your doing today.

DO IT.

Start slow. Ease your way into it.

Work on something easy. Enjoy your tea or coffee.

I often start by looking over what I have, or reading someone's post about something code related I saved to read.

If you've done this right, you should ease into doing work without actually realising it.

This my friend, is the much written about state called 'flow'.

You will forget there's even music playing (to the point where if it stops playing, it could be hours before you realise).

7\. Let your mind wander. It's time for a break though. You're mind has just be smashed with thinking. Thinking is hard. Fun, but damn it's hard. So do something else. Keep your headphones on, your music playing.

Time to let your mind wander.

It's very bad for your eyes to stare at a close distance for long periods of time. So kill two birds with one stone, stare of into the distance and give both your eyes and your brain a rest.

This shouldn't go for too long though. Maybe a couple of minutes.

Truth be told, you'll probably do this naturally.

8\. Don't finish abruptly. Like a good golf or tennis swing, the follow through is everything. Don't just jump up and go head first into something else.

You brain just spent 8 hours being intense. It needs a few minutes to de- brief.

This isn't time to waste though.

Keep your music in.

Take a moment to look back at what you have achieved today, and be damn proud of it. Didn't solve anything? Pfft, most people who succeed have more failures behind them than you'll ever know about. I have on more than one occasion spent weeks working on one problem, failing every single day to solve it. But each day, learning more about the problem at hand. I've never not solved a problem I've put time into. I'm sure I will one day, but that's when you ask for help.

Make deadlines, they'll encourage you to get stuff done. (Incidentally no GTD software or system, has ever worked well for me. Analogue lists with pen and paper, and backups [either typed or photos on an iphone] work better _for me_.)

The last thing you should to here, is plan out what you should do in your next session. Issue trackers are cool, and invaluable in teams. But you need your own notes too.

"I'm not writing it down to remember it later, I'm writing it down to remember it now." - Field Notes

You should have a pen (a damn good pen) and a notebook (again, get a nice one). This is your analogue RAM. I'm a Moleskine person myself, but Field Notes also make some good notebooks. You don't put crappy RAM in you computer, so why should you use a crappy pen and paper. $30 will get you a pen like a Lamy (a nice solid aluminium pen), or maybe your lucky enough to have a Parker. It' doesn't matter what it is, but it should be special in some way. Like your headphones, and you notebook, you should look forward to getting to use them.

A good Moleskine or FN will cost around $20 and last maybe 2-3 months. You probably won't spend more than $300 a year on them. And if you do you're probably making enough money to spend more.

The point is, use gear you love. And love the gear you use. Sure they're tools, but every good craftsman love's their tools.

9\. It takes 28 days* to form a habit. You will fail a lot.

Not just in life. Not just in code. If you can fail, you will :D

That's not a sadistic smile on the end of that sentence (which also purposely does not have a full stop in order to distress the OCD among us - okay _that_ might be sadistic).

Failure is good.

I've always learnt more from what I got wrong, than what I got right. Usually because getting something right is often predicated on getting many things wrong beforehand.

That's life. If you don't like it, too bad. You're playing this game - you may as well learn the rules.

So however you decide to get into your state of trance or flow, stick to it. Choose one point to work on and get that to 'good enough', then move onto another point. When you finally have everything kind of going, refine it all.

Get your process working for you.

That last point is key to all of this. How I work best, likely differs from you.

*Is it 28 days? I honestly can't remember and it doesn't matter in this context. It's close enough to the right amount of time it should take you to get all this to be close enough to habit, that you don't even think about it.

EDIT:

Almost forgot this.

SLEEP.

Work out what you need each night, and don't take crap from anyone. You need to get the right amount of sleep to code. To solve problems. You need sleep. Good quality sleep.

All night coding binges are for chumps.

<comment><USER39> This is some quality info!

One thing I can add, if your looking for a solid, no BULLETPROOF pair of headphones, definitely take a look at some Sennheiser HD-25's. These things sound amazing and you can wear them for hours without them hurting your head at all.

I've had my pair for nearly 5 years now, still hasn't let me down and I use them everyday.

If you take notice of the headphones all sports reporters and the majority of DJ's use, you'll see that they are all HD-25's.

And screw noise cancelling, these things basically block out most noise without anything even playing :)

<comment><USER38> Absolutely. I love most of what Sennheiser put out. A friend of mine just got a pair of these [1], and I didn't want to give them back.

[1] HD 598 [http://www.sennheiser.com.au/au/home_en.nsf/root/private_hea...](http://www.sennheiser.com.au/au/home_en.nsf/root/private_headphones_hifi_audiophile- headphones_504633)

Also, get a subscription to Rdio or Spotify and find some coding playlists. Just search for them. There's heaps on Rdio, and they are specifically made for coding.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER40> My approach:

1\. Low music. Better as background music. Random, any radio.

2\. Shut down all Twitter apps.

3\. HN procrastinator mode-on.

4\. Get on doing the stuff no matter what's going outside.

</comment><comment><USER41> Dexamphetamine</comment>


Starlite - happy-go-lucky https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlite <comment><AUTHOR> > Unfortunately after many samples & tests we where unable to find a effective > application method & we parted company on good terms. Sadly this is the true > reason why Mr Ward was never able to sell or bring his incomplete product to > market. [0]

So it's not available because of an ineffective application method? What if it was available for other groups to work on?

[0] [https://www.theguardian.com/notesandqueries/query/0,5753,-55...](https://www.theguardian.com/notesandqueries/query/0,5753,-5575,00.html)</comment>


How much energy does Bitcoin mining really use? - <AUTHOR> http://www.wired.co.uk/article/how-much-energy-does-bitcoin-mining-really-use <comment><USER2> Is there a confidence interval chart with low, average, and high estimates? Maybe a Jupyter notebook with parametrized functions and a reproducible and reasonably reviewable analysis?

A sustainability index with voluntary data from mining pools would be great.</comment>


Facebook bans Britain First and its leaders - <AUTHOR> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/14/facebook-bans-britain-first-and-its-leaders <comment><USER2> Yeah, while they're at it, could they please ban all political figures? I dislike their positions either.

</comment><comment><USER3> Nice. The paradox of tolerance is that we must always be intolerant of the intolerant.

</comment><comment><USER4> About time. Why should criminal activity and harassment be supported? You can have all the rights you're entitled too, provided you don't trample on other people's.

<comment><USER2> So, private entities get to decide what are criminal activities? We live in interesting times, for sure.

<comment><USER5> Maybe read the article, because the reason for the ban was "repeatedly posted content designed to incite animosity and hatred against minority groups".

Also currently most of the regulators around the world is pushing facebook to ban hate speech.

<comment><USER2> Care what you wish for. As much as I dislike the content, I will vigorously defend the right for free speech.

That regulators are pushing for it doesn't make it a good thing. What is "hatespeech" anyway? Antisemitism? Mean things about women? Mean things about other people, Reddit is full of it. Who is to decide?

Rule of law requires a clear definition of what is required to be compliant. Please come up with a definition of hatespeech which people can agree upon.

I don't think that suppressing speech is the right way to handle dissent, even in its most appalling forms. This will not make the problem go away but just sweep it under the rug (a bit).

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Ignorance is bliss. Let's sweep them under the rug.

<comment><USER7> Yes, without the Britain First Facebook page, how will we ever know that xenophobes exist?</comment></comment>


Dutch prison crisis: A shortage of prisoners - <AUTHOR> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-37904263 <comment><USER3> The counter argument as to why there seem to be a lack of prisoners is under- resourcing the police. However the whole judicial system within the Netherlands appears to take a holistic approach to people, trying to help people get their lives back on track.

Yes some people do need locking up, but there seems to be a recognition that locking up an addict for theft doesn't solve the long-term issue. Teaching them to manage and overcome their addiction brings significantly better long- term results to society.

More interestingly the article mentions that dangerous criminals are locked up, but also vulnerable individuals that have broken the law and because the best help to get them back on track is within the prison system.

Dutch prisons are not just there to incarcerate, but to help people back to being fully functioning members of society.

To get "revolving door" prisoners down to 10% vs 56% in the UK is a huge achievement.

<comment><USER4> I used to think this way before I started practicing Criminal law. But after interacting with criminals, I'm starting to realize that these are not just otherwise innocent and good people who fell onto hard times or had trouble with an addiction. There are genuinely bad people out there, who just want to get what they want and are perfectly willing to hurt others to get it. It seems to me that, absent a desire to change on their own part (which very few of them ever show) they will just continue to commit crimes and hurt society.

Yes many of them are addicts. However, addiction is not one of those things that someone just tries a drug and gets hooked and turns to crime. There are underlying mental issues that create an addict and those same issues tend to make them very bad people.

<comment><USER5> If that's true, then there are lots of genuinely bad people wandering the streets of the Netherlands. If that's true then either 1) they're doing terrible things all the time and the state just isn't doing anything about it (this doesn't seem to be the case), or 2) these "bad" people, bad as they may be, aren't causing much trouble by being amongst the general public.

<comment><USER4> There are dutch people in this comments section saying that laws are too lenient and that harsher prison sentences are needed. That should count for something. There was one commentor talking about how someone had assassinated a front-running political candidate and gotten off after a measly 12 years. That suggests to me that something is wrong.

<comment><USER6> The evidence that prison sentences are too lenient can't be "Look at this sentence that seems shorter than I'd prefer." Instead, if you want to convince people who don't already agree with you, you need to show that these short sentences create societal problems.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> _If somebody has a drug problem we treat their addiction, if they are aggressive we provide anger management, if they have got money problems we give them debt counselling. So we try to remove whatever it was that caused the crime._

Here's hoping that they don't privatize prisons, like we have in the US.

</comment><comment><USER8> Dutch national here. I'm pretty sure this is largely due to lenient prison sentences, no prison sentences at all for minor offences, and unsolved crimes.

The cold-blooded convicted killer of the frontrunner in the Dutch elections in 2002 was released after _12_ years, something which is unthinkable in other countries.

<comment><USER9> The main thing is that there's a difference in perspective. In e.g. the US legal system, prison time is punishment, a form of vengeance, of paying your debt to society. (and nowadays, a means to get a large slave labor force). In NL and Finland and the like, prison is more like forced rehabilitation - <USER2> recognises that committing crimes have a reason, and by solving the reason you solve the criminal behaviour.

<comment><USER10> > In NL and Finland and the like, prison is more like forced rehabilitation - > it recognises that committing crimes have a reason, and by solving the > reason you solve the criminal behaviour.

As a Dutch guy, I agree with this in general. However, what the system does not take into account is that some people are just broken beyond any hope of ever being fixed. For example, there was a news story a while back about some petty criminal who stole some iPhones from a locker room and got caught. It was the 163rd time he got arrested. How do you deal with someone like that in a civilised manner ?

<comment><USER11> I'm sure there are ways to isolate him in say, a psychiatric hospital, where he can get treatment if there's any.

Of course, if your point is that certain people are beyond help, then I guess you can always find examples where this is true and then maybe you can set certain rules specific for those extreme cases.

But I think that doesn't invalidate the GP's point. In most cases helping the person recover is actually possible so it's worth giving that road a try.

<comment><USER10> > I'm sure there are ways to isolate him in say, a psychiatric hospital, where > he can get treatment if there's any.

No, there aren't. You can't force someone into psychiatric care unless they are a danger to themselves or others and even then it's a difficult process.

> But I think that doesn't invalidate the GP's point. In most cases helping > the person recover is actually possible so it's worth giving that road a > try.

I agree. But the system needs to acknowledge that it simply is not possible for some people. I don't think we should wait for someone to get arrested 100+ times to try a different approach.

<comment><USER11> I think we are saying the basically the same thing.

My point was that someone that gets arrested not 100+ times, but even 5+ or 10+ is probably someone having serious issues participating in society (assuming we are not talking about North Korea or some other dictatorship regime with absurd incarceration laws).

Sometimes the culprit is going to be a medical reason for which we can try a medical treatment, but if not, there might be other possible treatments like those used with gang members (watch "La Vida Loca" documentary).

When all this fails, then we can maybe argue that we are dealing with one of those people for which there is no possible help, but it's not until now (hopefully) that we consider some potentially uncivilized way of dealing with these extremes.

That's how I would like to (broadly) deal with these people anyway. Not saying it's what happens, unfortunately.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> Maybe some prisons can fundamentally change to becoming some sort of YMCA-like environment. I imagine a lot of the prisoners are non violent. If so, I wonder if you could co-mingle those who live at the "prison" with those who go for the social activities and whatnot.

<comment><USER13> This sort of exists in the UK. When I was young I volunteered for CSV (now rebranded "Volunteering Matters"), but a good section, possibly 1/3rd of the people there were prisoners on day release or people who had been given (non- voluntary) community service as an alternative to prison.

Quite good, you definitely got to meet all types of people.

Sadly unlike the Simpsons joke I cannot trade my voluntary work against future crimes.

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> The Netherlands is actually renting out prisons to Norway (and others). Norwegian prisons are famously comfortable and aimed at rehabilitation ([https://youtu.be/01mTKDaKa6Q?t=4m18s](https://youtu.be/01mTKDaKa6Q?t=4m18s)) but we still have draconian drug laws (thanks to the US) that keep filling up the few prisons we do have. Half of our prison population is in for drug- related crimes.

Luckily this is about to change, as our minister of health recently proposed to copy what Portugal has done – decriminalize all drug use and move all drug related problems to the health system, not the judicial system.

To bad for the Netherlands – they will probably loose a good customer.

<comment><USER15> According to [https://www.ssb.no/fengsling/](https://www.ssb.no/fengsling/), for 2014 only 25% of inmates were incarcerated due to drug crimes. Of new incarcerations in 2014, drug crimes represented about 18% (because of other shorter sentences, e.g. traffic or financial crimes).

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> This reduction in prison population is, at root, a consequence of ending drug prohibition. In the US, state voters are working on this in places like Colorado, Washington, and now my home state, Massachusetts. So far, voters have had to do it. Legislatures can't, yet, do it, because the vested special interests in continuing prohibition are too strong.

I'm sure somebody can speak for California; I don't know much about the situation there.

The Washington cannabis-legalization model is based on a juridical argument: it's crazy to kick young people to the curb, take away their scholarships, and throw them in jail, for pot smoking, even though smoking pot is harmful. It wastes time and distracts the police from dealing with worse stuff like "human trafficking" (kidnapping teens and compelling them to work in the sex trade) and domestic violence.

The Colorado / Massachusetts model is based on a recreational argument. Cannabis is safer and less harmful than alcohol. People will use substances for fun. The less harmful those substances are, the better.

Both models involve regulation: purity, labeling, "carding" kids to keep them away from the stuff. Both involve taxation.

The recreational model is harder to use when arguing to end the prohibition of other drugs. Heroin and cocaine are, in fact, safer than alcohol when criminal gangs aren't involved in delivering them to users. The statistics come from experiments in various places where clinical decriminalization has been tried. But that's a very hard argument to make. The juridical argument is easier to use to convince people.

Both models cut down on police work, court work, and prison populations. As prohibition gradually contracts, lots of people will find themselves out of work: El Chapo and his cartel gangs, the Crips and Bloods, local gangs like the Insane Unknowns (who controlled the neighborhood where I lived as a graduate student on the south side of Chicago), police, probation workers, prison workers, and so forth.

People resist being thrown out of work, so eliminating prohibition will take another generation. People with access to legislatures (police, court, prison people) will resist there. The other side will fight it in the streets. But it will happen.

More info? Chasing the Scream, by Johann Hari. [http://www.worldcat.org/title/chasing-the-scream-the- first-a...](http://www.worldcat.org/title/chasing-the-scream-the-first-and- last-days-of-the-war-on-drugs/oclc/881418255)

<comment><USER17> Heroin and Cocaine are safer than Alcohol ? Can you share some info please ?

<comment><USER16> Paradoxical, isn't it? Here are the reason heroin and cocaine, delivered safely, are safer than alcohol.

Part of this counter-intuitive claim stems from the fact that alcohol has common and dangerous side effects like domestic violence and automobile violence.

Another part of it comes from statistical evidence showing the other compounds, when delivered safely (and not by criminal gangs) are not as dangerous as believed.

[http://www.forbes.com/sites/jacobsullum/2013/11/04/everythin...](http://www.forbes.com/sites/jacobsullum/2013/11/04/everything- youve-heard-about-crack-and-meth-is-wrong/#3503ec11e024)

[http://www.rand.org/pubs/occasional_papers/OP325.html](http://www.rand.org/pubs/occasional_papers/OP325.html)

Finally, consider the Iron Law of Prohibition: Prohibiting a substance drives out all but the most potent (easiest to smuggle) formulations of the substance. That makes the shit more dangerous.

Look, the claim is NOT that heroin and cocaine are not shit. They are. The claim is that the war on drugs has exaggerated their shittiness to justify itself.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> Apparently the Dutch are not as smart as the Americans. It's simple: 1- Legalize Guns so people can shoot each other over anything 2- Privatize Prisons so that greedy CEOs can take over the "business" 3- Create laws that can criminalize you for any stupid thing you do, procedures that make everyone frustrated, and an economy that keeps you bankrupt most of the time

<comment><USER19> Of course you need to legalize guns, it's to protect yourself from other people with guns!

The only solution to the shootings in the US is to equip more people with guns, you know, for "protection".

<comment><USER20> Or to have a chance against a guy armed with a knife.

<comment><USER21> Or for a small person to have a chance against a big person. Or an old person to have a chance against a young person. Or for one person to have a chance against lots of people.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> Norwegian here. We are actually renting a whole prison complex in Netherlands to get our own queues down without investing.

[https://www.nrk.no/nyheter/norsk-fengsel-i- nederland-1.12110...](https://www.nrk.no/nyheter/norsk-fengsel-i- nederland-1.12110632) (Translate it with your favorite tool)

</comment><comment><USER23> > Frans Carbo, the prison guards' representative from the FNV union, says his > members are "angry and a little bit depressed". Young people don't want to > join the prison service he adds "because there is no future in it any more - > you never know when your prison will be closed".

Well this truly sounds abhorrent.

<comment><USER9> Actually no, it sounds utopian - closing prisons because crime is low is a good thing.

<comment><USER24> I'm certain he was being sarcastic.

<comment><USER23> Correct.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> By sheer coincidence, we had a short vacation to Veenhuizen last weekend. Visited the prison museum, drove past several other prisons (I believe the village has been home to about 5 different prisons over the years). Originally, the layout of the village had the prisons (or other correctional facilities, before they turned it into a prison colony) at the center, and the houses of the guards around it. All the houses have inspiring words on the facade about how good it is to work and help people, and the sizes and designs of the houses were according to a strict hierarchy among the employees. I believe only people above a certain rank were allowed to have some types of tree in their garden.

Extremely orderly, all of it. Nowadays it's far more pragmatic and less restrictive of course, but there are still two prisons in active use.

</comment><comment><USER26> Anecdotally, I have been in jail in the netherlands before, and it's honestly not that bad of a place to be. Delicious food, thick mattresses, private cells. Also, all the surfaces are painted pink/yellow/white because those colors have been shown to calm people who are locked up.

<comment><USER27> Mind sharing what for? I assume it is quite a different experience depending on what you are "in" for?

</comment></comment><comment><USER28> The article says right at the top that a significant chunk of the decline is the police turning an blind eye towards drug use and even trafficking.

I wonder how much their immigration policy has to do with it as well? If they were accepting hundreds of thousands of refugees from war torn countries their crime rate might not be so low.

<comment><USER29> Refugees in general have a very low crime rate. They just escaped a war, get help that they're thankful for and want to get their lives on track in their new country.

It's the illegal immigrants for economic reasons that find life is very hard that are a problem.

</comment></comment><comment><USER30> The same thing have been happening in Sweden.

</comment><comment><USER31> Business idea: import prisoners! (jk)

<comment><USER32> That's happening; holland takes on Belgian prisoners. Or at least they did, then did not, then did, I'm not sure where it stands right now. But definitely happening :)

<comment><USER33> Belgium has an abysmal track record when it comes to prisons. It's been repeatedly convicted for treating prisoners like cattle, for putting psychiatric patients in regular prisons without treatment etc.

Sending some prisoners to Dutch prisons (including a prison boat, iirc) is one of the best things that's happened to the Belgian penal system in years. Sadly it's only a temporary relief, and it's been cancelled (and resumed) several times.

<comment><USER34> The programme was stopped because Belgium finished building new prisons.

<comment><USER33> When was this? Last I heard there were still over crowding issues.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER35> What a lie this is..

In reality there is the decade old problem that the Dutch justice system cannot handle the amount of criminals. Not enough judges and money for that.

Partly because of this it has become very hard in the Netherlands to even file a police report for light to medium weight crimes committed to you. Police simply send you away if a crime is not heavy enough in their opinion. Criminals walk free on the street, and when they are caught they most often are back on the street the same day, unless it is a real serious crime of course.

At some point they even decided not to file a police report below 3Kg of cocaine smuggling from the Dutch Antilles. Why? There were just too many doing it and the justice system couldn't handle it..

The Netherlands in reality has a very high crime rate, but the government found smart ways to conceal that.

<comment><USER13> The actual policy about the 3kg of cocaine is much more interesting and rather different from what you state. From [http://siteresources.worldbank.org/INTHAITI/Resources/Caribb...](http://siteresources.worldbank.org/INTHAITI/Resources/CaribbeanC&VChapter7.pdf)

> 7.13. Toward this end, the "100% Control" policy was implemented, in which > flights landing in Schiphol originating from the Dutch Caribbean, Suriname, > or Venezuela are subject to extensive searches. Rather than attempting to > scare off potential smugglers with the threat of incarceration, the Dutch > approach was based on increasing the rate of interdiction to the point that > smuggling becomes unprofitable. In other words, the focus was on the drugs, > rather than the couriers, and was based on incapacitation, rather than > traditional deterrence. Europol described the mechanics of the policy in > this way:

> > Crews, passengers, their luggage, the cargo and the planes are > systematically searched. Couriers with amounts of less than 3 kg of cocaine > are not detained, unless they are arrested for the second time or another > criminal offense is involved. Instead, the drugs are confiscated and the > smugglers are sent back. Couriers who have been identified are registered on > a blacklist, which is provided to KLM, Dutch Caribbean Airlines and Suriname > Airways.

<comment><USER35> You must be very naive to believe all that.. The actual amount of cocaine smuggled into the Netherlands is currently higher than ever before.

Also, the street value for 3Kg of cocaine is far above 50.000 euro's, do you realise how poor the people of the Dutch Antilles are? Without even a police report and a free ride back it's a clear invitation. And I didn't even mention the corrupt airport security, some of them make a sweet income out of this. It is definitely not "100% control", at all..

<comment><USER13> You said:

 _At some point they even decided not to file a police report below 3Kg of cocaine smuggling from the Dutch Antilles. Why? There were just too many doing it and the justice system couldn 't handle it._

I was pointing to a World Bank study describing what actually happened, which is very different from what you said.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER36> Their system makes you feel like an asshole if you're a bad guy.

<comment><USER37> Well isn't that basically par for the course if you're going to break the rules?

<comment><USER34> No sometimes they elect you president.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER38> Yeah, no wonder - you rape somebody here and you have to clean the streets for a week. If you're unlucky that is.

Police officers are too busy with mobile speed controls. They don't (dare) arrest anybody who's foul-mouthing them in their face. They have become laughing stock.

Crime sentences (duration) are deplorable. Solved crime rates are way too low.

<comment><USER39> Do you have any solved crime rate statistics, when compared to other countries?

The Police manpower is on par with the UK. And the amount of prisoners / 100.000 inhabitants is on par with Germany. See sources in my other comment.

<comment><USER38> [https://translate.google.nl/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&pre...](https://translate.google.nl/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=nl&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fdecorrespondent.nl%2F2038%2Fopheldering- verzocht-acht-op-de-tien-misdrijven-in-nederland-wordt-nooit- opgelost%2F278856112084-474d5e9e&edit-text=&act=url)

A little dated, but it surely shows a trend which has only gotten worse over the past years.

It has a comparison between The Netherlands and Germany.

Another source: [https://translate.google.nl/translate?hl=nl&sl=nl&tl=en&u=ht...](https://translate.google.nl/translate?hl=nl&sl=nl&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nrc.nl%2Fnieuws%2F2012%2F11%2F17%2Fcriminaliteit- is-zichtbaar-puntje-van-ijsberg-a1481131)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER40> It's not a lack of crime that causes it but a lack of solved crimes. Violent crimes for example, if a violent crime gets reported in Germany they solve the crime in 80% of the cases but in Holland just 40%.

People organise neighbourhood watch WhatsApp groups to prevent crime instead of relying on the police to fix things. Within ten years these groups will probably grow into armed and organised right-wing groups. And there's a constant flood of people trying to get into clubs with shooting ranges, the only way to get a gun legally in The Netherlands if you're not in the police or the army.

So people don't trust the government anymore in protecting them and they take rights into their own hands. Not a socialist paradise that's so right and just that nobody commits crimes anymore.

\</comment><comment>-

Edit 2: I'm not telling that it's not a safe place. I'm telling that when something does happen you shouldn't rely on the police to fix it.

\</comment><comment>-

Thanks for the down votes without knowing the facts.

There are many sources, this is one of the more recent:

[https://duitslandinstituut.nl/artikel/10090/opvallende- versc...](https://duitslandinstituut.nl/artikel/10090/opvallende-verschillen- in-nederlands-en-duits-recht)

WhatsApp neighbourhood patrols:

[https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2016/02/29/waken-met-whatsapp- rukt...](https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2016/02/29/waken-met-whatsapp-rukt-op-in- buurten-1593855-a1140157)

[http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/960/Buitenland/article/detail/27997...](http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/960/Buitenland/article/detail/2799774/2016/07/19/Burgerwacht- Soldiers-of-Odin-jaagt-op-criminele-asielzoekers-in-Nederland.dhtml)

Apart from that every shooting range has a huge waiting list nowadays. Just pick the ones closest to you.

<comment><USER41> Any data to back that up? I've lived all my live in Amsterdam and this is the first time I've heard of this. It sounds made up.

<comment><USER25> I notice that most of the people who disagree live in Amsterdam. Maybe it's different in other cities. Or in more rural areas.

<comment><USER42> Most Dutch people I've met consider Amsterdam to be one of the most dangerous places in the country and prefer to raise kids in more suburban setting. The statistics do say a few other cities are more dangerous, but overall Amsterdam is representative.

<comment><USER25> I can't think of a better place to raise my kids than Amsterdam, actually. Much better than the dreary suburban town I grew up in.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Alibaba founder Jack Ma meets with Trump, pledges 1M US jobs - <AUTHOR> http://www.businessinsider.com/alibaba-ceo-jack-ma-meets-with-trump-pledges-1-million-us-jobs-2017-1 <comment><USER2> The headline is misleading. Ma expressed interest in expanding Alibaba's customer base to the US. He's speculating that people who use his service will be able to make sales they wouldn't have made otherwise. There's no indication from this article that Alibaba is going to hire anyone in the US.</comment>


The Shirk and Turk Principle (related to Do Things That Don't Scale) - <AUTHOR> http://blog.beeminder.com/shirknturk/ <comment><USER2> I have a fondness for what McKinsey called "crude instruments", something that is almost certainly good enough, and will stop you trying to get ever more precise data.

"A crude instrument like this is a pretty good start. It begins to shake things up and overcome the internal inertia." [http://www.mckinsey.com/insights/strategy/breaking_down_the_...](http://www.mckinsey.com/insights/strategy/breaking_down_the_barriers_to_corporate_resource_allocation)

There will always be an epsilon to conquer; most of them aren't worth the effort after the first couple approximations, and I value accuracy over precision.

"It's better to be vaguely right than exactly wrong" — Carveth Read (1920, predates Keynesian equivalent, q.v. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carveth_Read](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carveth_Read) )

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> Relevant Paul Graham quote:

        > Some startups could be entirely manual at first.
        > If you can find someone with a problem that
        > needs solving and you can solve it manually, go
        > ahead and do that for as long as you can, and
        > then gradually automate the bottlenecks. It
        > would be a little frightening to be solving
        > users' problems in a way that wasn't yet
        > automatic, but less frightening than the far
        > more common case of having something automatic
        > that doesn't yet solve anyone's problems.

Generalizing that slighly, here's what I call the Shirk & Turk Principle: When writing any new app or website or feature, implement as little of it as you can get away with and manually fake the rest behind the scenes.

</comment><comment><USER3> Beeminder is one of the few applications that I've found to be quite effective at keeping me on track to building new habits.

Thanks to Beeminder, my dental cleanings have gotten to be quite a bit more friendly: [https://www.beeminder.com/bostonenginerd/floss](https://www.beeminder.com/bostonenginerd/floss)

<comment><AUTHOR> Woo-hoo! Thanks so much for saying so! (And I see you've passed 4 years of beeminding recently, which is maybe an even more powerful testimonial!)

<comment><USER3> I can't believe it's been that long! I've drifted away, but always come back when I notice habits no longer sticking.</comment></comment></comment>


The Forrst Story: Raising money, goals, and monetization - <AUTHOR> http://thestartupfoundry.com/2011/02/14/the-forrst-story-raising-money-goals-and-monetization/

<comment><AUTHOR> The biggest strength of Forrst is their community. I was really impressed with the skill of the members as well as constructive criticism they shared. They certainly embody the "Iron sharpens iron" mentality.

</comment><comment><USER2> This seems like a great community and venture -- though I doubt an online community to develop skills, knowledge, and projects will ever compare to a brick and mortar one.

Developers who are really serious about these goals should join a real community where they can sit in a room and collaborate -- like Noisebridge in San Francisco or Hacker Dojo in the Valley. That said, obviously these institutions don't exist everywhere, so this is a great "next-best" option!</comment>


Crypto microprocessor for executing enciphered programs - <AUTHOR> https://patents.google.com/patent/US4278837 <comment><USER2> This reminds me of an IBM paper I read in the late 1970's.

The authors had designed an ALU that could perform calculations on words with error correcting codes. So instead o just protecting against bit errors from data read from memory the processor could handle bit errors that occurred in registers and the ALU itself.</comment>


Occupational licensing hinders job mobility - <AUTHOR> https://hbr.org/2018/04/more-and-more-jobs-today-require-a-license-thats-good-for-some-workers-but-not-always-for-consumers <comment><USER2> I'm an MD, and I have felt this pain moving from one state to another. I've never had a problem getting a license, but it's tedious and expensive, and then there's always the question of whether or not to keep a license after moving (which generally just means keep paying them money forever).

Getting doctors to agree about anything is nearly impossible, so a national approach to licensing has patchy support. Some feel that if they are the subject of an unfair inquiry (which is not standard but sadly not uncommon), they would have no recourse if there's a single licensing body.

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> What is the right balance of licensing?

<comment><USER3> If you're a Harvard trained manager, you want real workers to be perfectly substitutable just like you learned in econ 101.</comment></comment>


Cryptol: DSL for specifying cryptographic algorithms - <AUTHOR> http://www.cryptol.net/index.html <comment><USER2> Some recent happenings in Cryptol land include:

      * Dylan recently released a literate Cryptol version of the CFRG's ChaCha20/Poly1305 document.  Very cool to see more Cryptol code like this.
      * Merged the fork of SBV with upstream.
      * ABC is now a supported prover.
      * Support for parallel (first to finish) proving using ':set prover=any'.
      * The type checker has been revamped for v2.3, so we should see simpler constraints "soon".

<comment><USER3> Parallel proving should be a big bonus. Nipkow found that on the Isabelle test set, using 3 theorem proves in parallel gave as good results in 5 seconds as the best among them gave in 120.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> It's another amazing piece of work largely developed by Galois Inc: a company that invents and develops great stuff on a regular basis. One of the few doing high assurance. Their blog [1] is a gold mine of their interesting work and tips.

Two other works HN readers might like are Copilot [2] and Ivory [3]. Copilot is a DSL for distributed monitors and real-time systems. The result is QuickCheck'd, model-checked, hard, real-time C. Ivory is a DSL that embeds a subset of C into Haskell to leverage its power and increase safety. It was used in the SMACCMPilot UAV program [4], which is open source.

[1] [https://galois.com/blog/](https://galois.com/blog/)

[2] [http://leepike.github.io/Copilot/](http://leepike.github.io/Copilot/)

[3] [http://ivorylang.org/ivory-introduction.html](http://ivorylang.org/ivory- introduction.html)

[4] [https://galois.com/blog/2013/10/smaccmpilot-open-source- auto...](https://galois.com/blog/2013/10/smaccmpilot-open-source-autopilot- software-for-uavs/)

</comment><comment><USER5> Cryptol was originally designed for the NSA. There's a good article on it in NSA's The Next Wave from 2011 [1], which is also linked under documentation.

[1] PDF: [https://www.nsa.gov/research/tnw/tnw191/articles/pdfs/TNW_19...](https://www.nsa.gov/research/tnw/tnw191/articles/pdfs/TNW_19_1_Web.pdf)

<comment><USER4> It was. It's since been used by all sorts of groups and open sourced. One of the few, good things that come from NSA's Information Assurance Directorate. Btw, below is a better link that isn't sideways and full of NSA's crap.

[http://cryptol.net/files/empowering_the_experts.pdf](http://cryptol.net/files/empowering_the_experts.pdf)</comment></comment>


Daft Punk's "Get Lucky" is Taken From a Korean Pop Star's Song - <AUTHOR> http://www.mavish.com/daft-punks-get-lucky-is-very-similar-to-a-korean-pop-stars-song/

<comment><USER2> How come Daft Punk was able to write the song 3 years before this guy released the video?</comment>


CrossFilter – Fast n-dimensional filtering and grouping of records - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/square/crossfilter

<comment><USER2> I should mention that Crossfilter and Cube are pretty dead - Mike Bostock, who originally wrote them, has left Square, and apparently they don't use them internally anymore.

As somebody else mentioned, DC.js ([http://dc-js.github.io/dc.js/](http://dc- js.github.io/dc.js/)) is (one) replacement, at least for Crossfilter.

<comment><USER3> DC.js isn't a replacement, it integrates d3 and crossfilter to make data- driven charts based on a crossfilter data source.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Very cool i've referenced this to a few folks in the past. Here's the demo link BTW [http://square.github.io/crossfilter/](http://square.github.io/crossfilter/)

</comment><comment><USER5> And [http://dc-js.github.io/dc.js/](http://dc-js.github.io/dc.js/) , the end- user friendlier frontend.

</comment><comment><USER6> Just wondering what is the max size of data it can handle maintaining the respectable performance on browser .. the data used in demo is 5.3 MB

<comment><USER3> It's pretty performant with large data sizes. The number of dimensions has impacted performance more in my experience, and there's a hard limit of (I think) 16 maximum dimensions.</comment></comment>


The annual meeting of the hacker scene: Chaos Communication Congress - <AUTHOR> https://www.ccc.de/en/updates/2013/30c3

<comment><USER2> Important info in this post : "The keynote of the 30C3 will be held in the evening of the 27th of December by the journalist Glenn Greenwald. "

</comment><comment><USER3> Anyone else getting a broken https certificate in Chrome"

[http://imgur.com/bEYVlT0](http://imgur.com/bEYVlT0)

<comment><USER4> They use a CAcert signed certificate which browsers doesn't include. See [http://wiki.cacert.org/FAQ/BrowserClients](http://wiki.cacert.org/FAQ/BrowserClients)</comment></comment>


Hook Stock and Bank Breakups - <AUTHOR> http://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-07-26/hook-stock-and-bank-breakups <comment><USER2> Everyone once in a while someone will ask why public companies have to continually grow revenues. I think this illustrates why. If the Left-Behind Remainder Yahoo (LBRY) company just holds yahoo Japan and Alibaba then the only growth it can have is from the two underlying corporations stock appreciation, assuming they don't start paying dividends. LBRY now becomes a very poor form of an ETF. One that has to pay for employees to run it, accounting fees to be public, etc.

Now what happens if the underlying companies stop growing. What would you pay for the corporation? you already need to discount the company by the amount in capital gains you'd need to pay to liquidate it.

And each year the company loses a bit of money due to just paying people to run it. I guess you can go activist on it and try and force them to sell its holdings and shutdown. Which is essentially what Starboard did to the former Yahoo.

Why would you even bother to invest in it. You can already buy shares of Alibaba if you want and get the full value of its appreciation rather than holding a tracking product that slowly looses money each year.

This company is a bit of a walking Zombie, it's great for some in that its now an arbitrage opportunity.

I don't see why Alibaba or Softbank would be too quick to make a deal here. Time is their friend as each day they wait the company becomes worth less.

<comment><USER3> Why do you need to pay people to run it? It would effectively become like an ETF or a royalty trust. Looking at some royalty trusts, it seems they spend about 1-2M/year on overhead which shouldn't impact the share price much price much.

Why you would invest in it is a good question though.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> _...I feel like it must be a pretty good business to wander around D.C. shouting "blockchain" until some government agency commissions you as a consultant and pays you to write a report like this_

Matt Levine is a rockstar and this alone is worth the click

<comment><USER5> He's such a good columnist that it makes me feel bad about myself, even though we don't do the same thing. I recommend following him on Twitter even if only for his tweets announcing his daily column, e.g.[1]:

> This newsletter is running around everywhere screaming "blockchain > blockchain blockchain."

[1]: [https://twitter.com/matt_levine/status/753572846455095296](https://twitter.com/matt_levine/status/753572846455095296)

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> The USPS blockchain graphic is worth the click.

</comment><comment><USER7> Yahoo has Jim Cramer always flacking for it's stock. He thinks Yahoo is gr8 because it features his worthless stock tips. Boo-yah!

</comment><comment><USER8> Another Bloomberg View article without a coherent point. It jumps around from an empty hot take on the Yahoo acquisition to pointing and laughing at the USPS. By the last section, it has degraded into an incoherent mass of linkspam to Buzzfeed-quality stories. While I'm sure there are some great SEO reasons for Bloomberg to do it this way, I think we're worse off as readers for it.

No upvote. Levine's work is arguably off-topic, and certainly not the quality I expect on HN.

<comment><USER9> Levine's daily Money Talk is always a quick recap of current events, with frequent refs to prior columns. It's not supposed to be a coherent article with a theme. Think of it like the entire WSJ biz/tech/money/investing sections condensed into one article.

I'm not saying its your fault for not knowing this, though. It's a confusing thing to see on the homepage of HN.</comment></comment>


#STOPIS.ORG - <AUTHOR> http://stopis.org

<comment><USER2> Stop the sockpuppets first.

</comment><comment><USER3> Thank you guys! This is really important. Please, note that it doesn't work properly on Firefox.</comment>


Will Linux, Mac Adoption Rate Ever Break 20%? - <AUTHOR> http://www.itworld.com/small-business/69222/will-linux-and-mac-desktop-adoption-ever-reach-20-8020-rule <comment><USER2> I figure the majority of the challenge is in businesses. And there, changing the Windows adoption rate requires visionary people in charge, a complete set of applications on another platform, and a realistic transition path.

I haven't seen a lot of vision in current IT groups; more like, CYA. So it may take a generation or more before enough of the establishment changes to even consider moving away from the current stack of Windows/IE-based enterprise software (the quality of which is oddly irrelevant to many managers). Either that, or a catastrophe so substantial that upper management is forced to start over with IT.

Making competing applications on other platforms is technically doable. But, unfortunately, most of the work that needs doing isn't _interesting_. Years have gone by, and it shouldn't be surprising that people have avoided spending their precious free time developing open-source business apps when they could do something more fun. What's more, with each passing year, the number of new enterprise apps bolting businesses to Windows is increasing (as is their data dependency on existing apps).

And then there's the transition. How do you even _convince_ companies to change, much less address the technical hurdles (e.g. different data formats, software bugs) and the user community (different user interface, retraining costs, etc.)?

For what it's worth, I really want Windows' share to decrease, but these are big challenges. I do what I can to help. :)</comment>


Ask HN: Trying to transfer off dead-end project in big corp. What to do? - <AUTHOR> After spending most of my time in small and medium-sized companies, I joined a large software shop last spring. I ended up being staffed on the maintenance of a hopeless legacy module on which real, visible accomplishment isn't possible: many of the APIs aren't documented, the architecture is incomprehensible, and simple changes take weeks. The code's in such a damaged state that I'm lucky to commit 40 lines of code per week. (I'm used to 100 LoC/day being an "off day", and I prefer the green field pace.)
I've spent the past 3 months looking for something else within the company, even though transfers before 18 months are frowned upon. First, I talked to my boss and told him that maintenance coding isn't what I'm good at and that while I'm willing to do it, I shouldn't be evaluated based on it, as I won't be great in my job until I can get some green-field new-invention work. Second, I started looking for transfer opportunities, especially in machine learning and AI (which are what I did before this). That process is ongoing. Third, if all that fails... then it's time to look for another job, as much as I hate the thought of leaving an otherwise great company at 5 months.
What I'm doing right now does not tap any of my talents; it's matched almost exactly to my weaknesses. I know it was unintentional and random, but I feel like I've been set up to fail.
Performance reviews came in recently. I knew my performance was mediocre and didn't expect great reviews, but I expected my boss to take care of things and give me a good enough rating that I could transfer when the time comes. It turns out I got shat on. A certain percentage of people had to get smacked and I guess I fell under the bar. I thought my boss would give me a high enough rating to keep things intact, but apparently not.
I know I can do great things at this company if I get to a greener field, but now my position's really damaged. I got a bad review, and this company (despite its virtues) has the mean-spirited practice of making performance reviews visible in the transfer process, plus I'm on a dead-end maintenance project where real accomplishment isn't possible so whether I "recover" is merely a matter of whether I appear to be making enough "effort", and I'd rather not bet my career on someone's opinion (I prefer actually accomplishing things).
I'm not especially bitter or resentful. Mistaken allocations happen all the time. I just don't want to waste any more time being a square peg in a round hole. I'll work on a dead-end, boring legacy project for a year, but to work on a dead-end project and get shitty reviews is too much.
Should I (a) spend 12 hours in the office as a way of sucking up, thereby establishing "good attitude" and then ask for an upgrade in project allocation as a favor, (b) aggressively begin networking internally in the hope of finding someone with the courage to overlook my damaged track record and "early" transfer, or (c) just get another job as soon as I can? <comment><USER2> Another option is to work just at a mediocre capacity until you get canned. If you are just kind of middling and don't actually do anything wrong, they will have to pay you out a severance to make you go away. Also, this way you can collect unemployment. The downside to this approach is that if the company is lame enough, you may never actually get fired.

<comment><AUTHOR> It's actually a good company. I'm just on the wrong project. I would strongly prefer a transfer to something that matches my talents.

"Never actually get fired" is fine by me. It gives me time to search.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> It sounds like you aren't happy after 5 months..and your boss isn't doing you any favors.

Can you imagine being in the same position for 5 years?

I would look for another job.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks.

One way or another, there's no way I'll be in this position for 5 years. They won't keep me in it, and I won't stay in it.

The major question is whether I look for an internal transfer (this is a big and generally quite good company) or another job. And if I do look for a transfer, do I wait or start immediately?

<comment><USER3> I had this same dilemma 5 years ago. I was right out of college and started a new job. I hated the project I was working on (it was one main project at a medium-sized company, so I didn't have much choice) and I dreaded waking up in the morning.

I lasted about 8 months. I used my lunch hour to send out my resume and find another job. It was the best decision I could have made. My new job was much better and it lasted until a year ago.

It's more than just your job. When you enjoy your work, your entire outlook on life is better. During that 8 months, I didn't work on any side projects, because I was so depressed. The plus side is I never went out or bought anything and I got myself out of debt.

"The major question is whether I look for an internal transfer (this is a big and generally quite good company) or another job. And if I do look for a transfer, do I wait or start immediately?"

It's an option, you can try it. But, your boss may not put in a good word for you, which will make things difficult.</comment></comment></comment>