Upload files using torrents to your personal space with Put.io - <AUTHOR> http://put.io/ <comment><USER2> Careful with the .io domain, though I've never heard of them shutting down a startup over content, their rules do state:

        No .IO domain may be used, directly or indirectly, for any purpose that is sexual
        or pornographic or that is against the statutory laws of any Nation.

The "laws of any Nation" could be a rather onerous clause one _hopes_ never gets called upon. It has happened for .ly domains...

<comment><USER3> Startups needs to think twice when they decide to use a .io domain.

.io domains aren't top level domains like .com, .org, or .net. They're ccTLDs - country specific domains - like .co.uk, .us, or .com.au. Io is the local domain for the Indian Ocean states. Unlike the TLDs, and a handful of the early ccTLDs, Google doesn't treat .io as a global domain - it treats them as domains specific to the Indian Ocean. This means you're immediately at a disadvantage at being found by your target market via a google search (unless they're specifically searching for your brand).

So while you're more likely to get a common-word .io domain, and they have the obvious relation with technology, if your start up is going to be relying on search engine traffic or might be dealing in a slightly grey area, you should probably just save yourself the bother and go for getX.com or Xapp.com, where X is your website name.

<comment><USER4> I don't have the source (tried to find but buried), but Matt Cutts has stated because so many tech companies use .io as input/output webapp connotation, that behind the scenes, google treats it as a gTLD even though technically it's a ccTLD. I know because I did a ton of research for <http://pineapple.io> as well as talking to a lot of other people who were ranking their .io domain.

Likewise, there is a movement to get it officially branded as a gTLD just like .me, etc.

I would say choosing a .io domain is just fine.

<comment><USER5> It is from a few years ago, but there is this:

> The question came up about whether it matters which TLD (top level domain) > you're using. For example, do .com domains carry more weight than a .net, > .us, .info, etc. He said that TLD doesn't matter–that's the way Larry and > Sergey originally designed the Google algorithm. The algorithm doesn't care > where the page is located, it's all about pagerank (LINKS) of the particular > page. At the end of answering this question he did admit that they might > have started to look at particularly cheap (and spammy) TLDs differently > than other TLDs–or they might start considering TLD in their algorithm if > they're not already doing so.

[https://www.seo.com/blog/conferences/matt-cutts-does- domain-...](https://www.seo.com/blog/conferences/matt-cutts-does-domain- roundtable/)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Just FYI, on the register pages (<http://put.io/register/BASIC>) you display the SSL Verified seal but the form isn't actually sent via SSL. You might want to fix that.

<comment><USER7> There appears to be a HTTPS version of the site, but it's not asking for it by default/redirecting from HTTP: <https://put.io/register/BASIC>

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> So what happens when copyright holders see a bunch of put.io IP addresses connected to the bit torrent swarm? Or will it be a game of whack a mole? Just interested in the general legality. I suppose no one can really monitor the downloads from random sites like megaupload... will sites like that begin to actively monitor and disable downloads from services like these (as they circumvent the ads)..?

<comment><USER9> Most likely put.io will receive any DMCA-notices and will have to comply with these and take down the offending files to remain legal?

I used to operate a tor exit-node and my hosting provider wasn't really interested in whether I was infringing or not; If the data looked to be going to my server, I was responsible so in the end I had no option but to operate as a non-exit node. Put.io will most likely be hosting their own data (or in the cload), so this might not be an issue.

</comment></comment><comment> li-ch In fact, Xunlei, the download software that has most users in the world, does a much better job for a much lower price (10GB for 15 USD per year). But you have to be able to read Chinese...<http://vip.xunlei.com/freedom/lixian.html>

<comment><USER10> I'm ok with the free account on put.io.

I use torrent only for foreign tv shows. They are not that big anymore. 1gig will be enough because I don't plan to store the stuff.

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> What I like about put.io is that if somebody else already downloaded the same torrent, your download is instantaneous.

Of course, you still have to download the file from put.io, which can itself takes ages (at least from here in Japan). I guess you'll always have bottlenecks somewhere…

</comment><comment><USER12> Either I missed it, or am a little dim this monday morning but it took me reading the whole landing page to actually figure out what it did. A "torrent gofer".

I am confused at the value though except for the remote control aspect. I can torrent at speeds that saturate my ISP or I can download from put.io and saturate my channel, either way it amounts to the same time. And I have to pay for the intermediate storage? The one benefit I see is when a torrent is slow and the person wanting the file doesn't have a computer available to cover the download period, put.io act as a store and forward server. Possibly if the client->put.io is https then this solves a problem whereby ISP's track the port usage. I suppose torrent->https is an advantage for some.

</comment><comment><USER13> I _love_ Put.IO, and so I made a cool iOS app for it: <http://awesomeputioapp.com>

<comment><USER14> I _love_ put.io app, and thank you as an avid user! One thing would be nice to know: you mention its open source?

{Another thing that would be nice to know is a set of fat rss feeds, but I'll reserve that question for elsewhere.. _hint_ _hint_ }

<comment><USER13> <https://github.com/orta/Puttio/> \- I should add a link in the site

The app uses a collection of sources of torrents, I've only found the native RSS feeds functionality of Put.IO to be useful for [pod/vid]casts

<comment><USER14> This is really nice, I hope you know you've won a fan today! :)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> So it's a seedbox?

<comment><USER16> That's what it looks like to me, but other people here seem to be pretty enthusiastic about it. If it's not just a seedbox, ca someone explain it to me?

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> " _Le_ media"?

<comment><USER18> yeah… cool kids learn their french-mixed-up-with-latin and know that media is plural and use the correct "les media"

:)

</comment></comment><comment><USER19> Great landing page.

</comment><comment><USER20> Seems like they're solving a similar problem to what I'm trying to with ntor. This is obviously way more built out and polished, though.

<https://github.com/davidbanham/ntor>

I'm very keen to check out their social sharing aspects. Pity they don't seem to have a mechanism for ad-hoc search.

</comment><comment><USER21> Wow, the content filtering nazis didn't take too long to get at this. Websense'd as "file sharing" :(

</comment><comment><USER22> i have done an internship at put.io so seeing them in frontpage of hackernews is awesome. :)

</comment><comment><USER23> <http://movies.io> uses the put.io API!

</comment><comment><USER24> Awesome. Went from free plan to basic and then to $10/month in 30 minutes.

Integration with movies.io is amazing. And they will automatically download Daily Show from rss feed...

Already downgraded my netflix to 1 movie.

</comment><comment><USER25> I don't understand these services. If I'm going to have to download the thing anyway, why put another layer in the middle? It's always going to take less time to download directly.

<comment><USER26> You let the service download the slow torrent over night and then use a fast download from their servers to transfer it to your computer. This way you don't have to have a running computer in your room all that time.

<comment><USER25> Hmm, I forgot that not all people have a computer running 24/7. I haven't seen many slow torrents, but I guess they exist. Thanks for the explanation!

<comment><USER27> And more and more these days you are using a mobile device where torrents aren't an option.

<comment><USER25> Try TransDroid if you have a pc with a torrent client on, it's amazing.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER28> I don't understand how they made the service so blazing fast so much so that the moment I pasted a magnet link in, the next second I could direct download from it.

<comment><USER29> deduplication. Likely someone else had already downloaded that file so put.io just serves you the copy they already have.

</comment></comment><comment><USER30> The torrents I add aren't being downloaded; they've been stuck at 0% for around 20 minutes now. Is it just under heavier-than-usual load?

Edit: never mind, working as expected now.

</comment><comment><USER31> One thing, they have an upper limit of 25 characters for the password.

Sometimes that's ok, but not always a good sign for how they store passwords.

<comment><USER32> Fixed, sir. All the passwords are hashed and salted, btw. No worries.

<comment><USER31> That's some fast turn around you have for fixes, thanks! Now time to change the password.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER33> Nice concept and the home page looks nice

</comment><comment><USER34> I've noticed they don't fetch popular files twice from torrents that they already have them!

</comment><comment><USER35> Can I pause and resume downloads?

</comment><comment><USER36> Now make it work on xbmc …

</comment><comment><USER37> put.io is the best start-up which I have joined as a customer. Cheap, fast and simple service. Also, put.io accepts free users for 1G. Everybody must try.

<comment><USER38> do you work for them much?

</comment></comment><comment><USER39> I really hope you are not trying to reach the spanish market... because "Putio" sounds way too much like an spanish slang word (hard to explain, lets says its a verbalized version of what in english would be "b*tch").

Something similar happened with "webOS" and every spanish forum were making jokes about it.

<comment><USER40> In which way is Putio similar to Puta other than that they both start with the same three letters?

The pronunciation is completely different, Puta is pronounced 'pooh - ta' where as Putio is 'put - eye - oh' or if pronounced by a native spanish person 'pooh - tee - oh' (in which case the 'tee' would be pronounced extremely quickly.)

I honestly believe this is a false concern.

Source: Lived in Spain for 2 years up until 7 months ago, spent months there at a time previously.

<comment><USER41> Putio could be pronounced very similarly to "Puto", which is a swear word in Spanish. It can have different meanings depending where you are, but in Mexico it can be used directly as an insult.

<comment><USER41> Just read below that a comment said "X uses the Put.io API", in my (Spanish) head, it sounds like "X uses the F __*ing API" ;-)</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Death of Cursive - <AUTHOR> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090919/ap_on_re_us/us_cursive_angst <comment><USER2> I don't think cursive takes all _that_ much time to pick up. Here in Taiwan, I often see 9-13 year old kids write things in cursive English for fun. It's legible, too. Cursive isn't required anywhere in their curriculum, at least in the one I designed, and it's their 3rd language.

Writing in script is much faster than printing, and the time investment is minimal. Until technology reaches the point at which most people really don't use a pen or paper and offices stop buying them, I'm inclined to call bullshit on all of these arguments that the skill is no longer practical.

When is the last time you, yourself, used a pen or paper? I'll bet you used one yesterday, didn't you? Odds are also overwhelmingly high that you haven't gone a single week in the past three years without using a pen or paper.

I've made this same argument with people who think that being able to write in Chinese has no practical use: <http://toshuo.com/2007/the-pen-matters/></comment>


Theora update for May 2009; quality has improved dramatically - <AUTHOR> http://web.mit.edu/xiphmont/Public/theora/demo7.html

<comment><USER2> The Theora guys have given themselves a bit of a PR black-eye here. In amongst all the fascinating yet mostly incomprehensible progress reports they make a passing reference to x264 which has been stripped of all their carefully worded caveats and unleashed on reddit et al to completely hijack the good press they should be getting from this.

Instead of "solid progress of free codec, supported natively by popular browser, potential game changer for online media" you get a standard online benchmark squabble stealing all their press and goodwill.

Maybe it's one of those "no such thing as bad publicity" things and they've been taking lessons from DHH. Then again they probably had no hope of avoiding it, the same arguments appear every time there's Theora news.

Open Source Lessons Learned:

from pulseaudio: linux users get really(!) upset when you break their proprietary Flash plugins and Skype.

from theora: there can be no compromise in quality standards when transcoding bootleg DVDs.

<comment><AUTHOR> I have a somewhat opposite viewpoint. For years I considered Theora worthless _because_ the developers appeared not to care about how it compares to H.264. IMO this is the first _good_ press for Theora ever.</comment></comment>


How We Email Hardware to Space - <AUTHOR> https://medium.com/backchannel/how-we-email-hardware-to-space-7d46eed00c98 <comment><USER2> I'm at the Mars Desert Research Station in Utah. We finally got a 3d printed approved for use, and we've been using it to do a few things. So far customized finger splints, a hose for an EVA pack (these are only semi- simulated; it's insanely cold here, and they provide the hot air to prevent face insensitivity and helmet fogging), and a little gizmo I did that lets you use a safety razor as a scalpel. If you have questions, I will try to give a cogent answer but our bandwidth is very limited and we have a simulated speed of light delay so I can't answer straight away!

<comment><USER3> Are you using a commercial available 3D printer or something else?

If so, can you share the name of the 3D printer you have chosen and if possible on what grounds (advantages - disadvantages)

<comment><USER2> We are using a Cubify thing because they donated it. The first thing we did was remove the horrible inkjet-like cartridge protection thing they have, and set it up for bulk filament.

For reliability, I must recommend the Solidoodle 3 -- mine kept operating through BEING ON FIRE when I was testing the laser cutter attachment.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Why haven't there yet been any projects for milling in space with some sort of vacuum-remelt process for reusing the milled off materials. 3D printing is great and all, but it still doesn't come close to what you can achieve with milling.

That said, this is awesome. I just think that there are pros and cons to both and we shouldn't be focused only on 3D printing.

<comment><USER5> Milling is great, but not very mass-efficient. Resisting the cutting forces involved in milling anything harder than light foam, requires a lot more structure than simply moving a deposition print head. Machinists use mass as a shorthand to talk about a machine's rigidity, with anything less than half a ton being basically a toy.

Remelting waste is possible, but this sort of high quality manufacturing is really hard, even on earth with gravity to keep material in a mold and hardly any mass or energy constraints. This, and the chip collection system add additional mass, have to be developed way before being put into orbit, and have to work extremely reliably. Even a tiny amount of swarf floating around the interior of a spacecraft could be disastrous.

We aren't focusing only on 3d printing, we're focusing first on 3d printing, because it can work today, with technology we have, on a low mass budget, and without jeopardizing the primary objectives of whatever mission includes it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> When I toured the Belfast cruiser in London, what stuck out to me (the engineer nerd) was the machine shop. Crammed in a tiny space was a marvelously complete shop, where there wasn't much a skilled machinist couldn't make on the spot. This, of course, is critical for a warship out at sea that would need to make repairs or improvise right now.

In a spacecraft, this is obviously even more critical that one be able to make repair parts on the spot. The Apollo 13 crew was pretty lucky they were able to make makeshift repairs to keep going without much of anything to work with. One shouldn't rely on being so lucky again.

The Challenger disaster (discussed recently on HN) comes to mind. If the crew knew about the damaged wing, and had some ability to make new parts on board, they might have been able to rig a repair good enough to get them home.

<comment><USER7> I was lucky enough to get a guided tour of HMS Belfast from one of her old officers a few years ago. I think that shop could make just about anything, but there were a couple of things which if broken would have crippled the ship. Some piece of steering gear was the main one, IIRC. Just too big to fabricate on board, and not really replaceable without a drydock.

A minor correction: I think you meant Columbia. Challenger was destroyed by a leaking seal in the solid rocket booster while still in the launch phase. Not something fixable while in flight.

<comment><USER6> Thanks for the correction.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Scratching head on what the long term goal of this experiment was... (more 3D printing PR?)

Seems like using this manufacturing approach would be a very tough sell for any real mission.

Only benefit of 3D printing at your destination is the ability to manufacture something that was overlooked, so contingency planning. (yea, yea, someday we'll mine the printable materials on site, right...)

For just about any other item that you know you need, it would be much more weight-effective (the golden measure in launch considerations) to just build the part here on earth, where you can maximize specific density and specific strength using materials that 3D printing can't touch. Plus you aren't lugging around a heavy 3D printer + raw materials.

<comment><USER9> The article points to the short term goal being just to learn how 3D printers behave in space. They mention printing things in space and then sending them to the ground for analysis.

Long term, I think the goal would be to do metal printing in addition to plastic printing (most likely with separate machines).

3D printed plastic parts can do a lot - they aren't as weak as people make them out to be.

The obvious advantages are that complex things can be made on site with zero labor required (besides occasional assembly of things that can't be printed assembled).

It can be hard to speculate on what a general purpose tool will be most used for in the future, but I do think that there is something on-site printing offers that delivery from earth does not. As we send spacecraft beyond low earth orbit, sending from earth simply stops being an option.

Hell, from what I recall of the movie a 3D printer onboard Apollo 13 could have salvaged the mission entirely. 3D printing isn't just about making things you forgot, but replacing things or making new things. Maybe people get to mars and realize there is an experiment they want to run that needs some little assembly they could print.

I'm not able to predict what a 3D printer would be used for, but you can be damn sure I'd want the ability to fabricate parts locally if I was on a multi- year Mars mission. And that does seem to be our long term goal.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> "You wouldn't download a $physicalObject, would you?" has been an annoying meme for quite some time.

Every year, that meme is becoming closer to reality. You can already download small plastic objects. And I look forward to the day when I can torrent a pirated Tesla to my garage :p

Imagine what the film _Apollo 13_ would have looked like with a fast 3D printer on board. Instead of trying to shoehorn a square CO2 scrubber into a round hole using all sorts of stuff that was never designed for the job, Houston could have sent them a perfectly designed adapter.

<comment><USER11> > Imagine what the film Apollo 13

Yeah, they would run out of battery juice way before reentry burn :-)

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> For anyone confused about how you can print the ratcheting mechanism, I think this wrench is probably the new toothless/springless design from Roller Clutch Tools ([http://www.rollerclutchtools.net/](http://www.rollerclutchtools.net/)): [http://3dprintingindustry.com/2013/08/20/this- year-3d-printi...](http://3dprintingindustry.com/2013/08/20/this- year-3d-printing-a-wrench-actually-means-something/)

</comment><comment><USER13> I hope this does not come across as cynical.

As an engineer my first thought when I saw what it printed was how do you turn a bolt with a plastic wrench without breaking the wrench?

<comment><USER14> You've already got some better replies, but I have always wondered about the strength of 3D printed materials.

I think it's just amazing that we're at this point anyways. Regardless of how good the tools are, we can print them in space.

<comment><USER15> We use some where I work. They are useful in niche applications, such as our one-off research lab equipment. They wear out slowly. They work best where we have 5 different common orifices for fluid that need to be merged into one. When they wear out, we order new ones.

We pay a tech who knows CAD and a fab house rather than a machine shop. A machine shop would probably cost a lot more. Although now that we have the design down pat, we wouldn't waste as much money on prototypes.

Our design includes 2" diameter threaded ends and it holds pretty firmly although the threads do wear out and tear off the tube with vibration and heat changes.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> How cool! Does anyone know what changes they had to make to get their 3D printer to work in microgravity?

</comment><comment><USER17> I recall reading about plans to manufacture fuel on the surface of mars for a return trip. I wonder if the goal now is to manufacture fuel and raw 3d printing materials? Seems like it takes some of the pressure off the initial trip loadout.

</comment><comment><USER18> Great! Now we just need replicators. :)

<comment><USER19> I hadn't thought about it like that before, but 3D printers are very much the first step of a replicator.

It would be nothing to throw some speech recognition into the loop - not that you need to - and basically say "I want a 16mm wrench" or "I want a 16 oz cup" and come back in 1 hour to find it exists.

<comment><USER20> They essentially did have this, they told people on the ground that they needed a wrench, and the people on the ground designed one for them to print.</comment></comment></comment>


Hacker News /best RSS - <AUTHOR> http://hnbest.heroku.com/

<comment><USER2> You might consider tweaking the RSS feed a little.

For permalinks: <guid isPermaLink="true"></guid>

Add dc:creator for the submitter of the article: <rss version='2.0' xmlns:atom='<http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom> xmlns:dc='[http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/>](http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/>);

And: <dc:creator></dc:creator>

Also, make sure you site sends the headers Content-Type: text/xml;charset=UTF-8 with this feed because it is currently sent as text/plain.

</comment><comment><USER3> Wizard RSS (yahoo pipes) to create full text version: <http://www.wizardrss.com/feed/hnbest.heroku.com/rss>

</comment><comment><USER4> Actual feed link is here: <http://hnbest.heroku.com/rss></comment>


Of Perfection, Perfectionism, and Perfect Web Apps - <AUTHOR> http://2010.frozenrails.eu/videos/17-perfectionism Jarkko Laine's "Of Perfection, Perfectionism, and Perfect Web Apps", at Frozen Rails 2010. <comment><USER2> This is my absolute favorite talk

<comment><USER3> The talk was a great punctuation to a great conference. Jarkko really delivered on this one.</comment></comment>


MMM Receives Legal Threats - <AUTHOR> http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2014/03/11/mmm-receives-legal-threats-great-lawyer-wanted/ <comment><USER3> Ken Popehat ([http://www.popehat.com/](http://www.popehat.com/)) might be worth contacting. Even if he can't help directly, he might know someone who can. He's about the closest thing the internet has to a folk superhero in law; he has a "Popehat signal" ([http://www.popehat.com/tag/popehat- signal/](http://www.popehat.com/tag/popehat-signal/)) he uses for a "call for pro bono help for online folks who get threatened with bogus censorious lawsuits" ([http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1aokls/iama_federal_cr...](http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1aokls/iama_federal_criminal_defense_attorney_and_former/)) and he got involved, at least twice, with a university-area bus company that has tried to silence criticism on Reddit ([http://beta.slashdot.org/story/185659](http://beta.slashdot.org/story/185659)).

<comment><USER4> Luckily, it looks like Mr. Money Mustache is already in touch with Ken from Popehat: [http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2014/03/11/mmm-receives- legal...](http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2014/03/11/mmm-receives-legal- threats-great-lawyer-wanted/#comment-617916) .

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> Every time I see another example of frivolous litigation threats like this, I feel like one of the biggest shortcomings of the U.S. justice system is not enough pain inflicted on frivolous litigators.

This goes for patent trolling, too, obviously.

There should be a healthy fear of filing baseless legal challenges. Disbarment? Large fines? What's the effective remedy here, that doesn't go so far it dissuades legitimate cases?

<comment><USER6> Who decides if they are baseless? From the post MMM can't even decide: "From what I could tell, there wasn't much merit to their complaint."

<comment><USER7> No, the parent is right. My own attorney even describes the current system as extortionate.

Even if this claim is not found to be technically frivolous (a legal term that carries a standard), the current system offers little or no penalty to those who use the courts as a bullying tactic.

If you say or do something that someone doesn't like, then they just sue you and force you to spend exorbitant amounts of money and time to defend yourself, or otherwise just capitulate to their demands. Even the effort required to show that something is frivolous can be expensive, as the standard is high.

The current design absolutely favors those with money. The defendant can win handily but stand very little chance of even recovering their attorney's fees.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Looks like this has already made it to the Wikipedia page for Kiss Trust:

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiss_Trust](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiss_Trust)

<comment><USER9> 18.104.22.168 seems intent on changing the wording to be more favourable to kiss trust.

<comment><USER10> That IP resolves to a Comcast Business connection in Warrenton, VA. Guess where kisstrust.com's WHOIS record shows they are located?

<comment><USER11> That's where the Kiss Trust's attorney is located, according to the posted letter.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> Aside from this current issue, which has no doubt raised awareness of MMM's website, one of the positive outcomes here is that HN readers may be exposed to some of the most awesomely good advice you will ever receive. Reading his posts has led me to understand that I am not alone by any means in my quest for financial independence, which is true independence. Check out his site -- you can begin with the "Start Here" link on the navbar.

<comment><USER13> I was not aware of the site before today. I looked through a few of the articles and came to the conclusion that it is a borderline religious frugal porn site. You can take a look at the site owners 2013 budget as a prime example. Assuming that your house and car is paid off and that nobody got seriously ill and no other unexpected expenses came up the guy claims to have spent 23k for one year of supporting a family of 3+ (presumably). It is hard to reconcile the claimed budget knowing the reality of supporting onself, even if you disregard things such as rent, car, and medical.

<comment><USER14> If I remember the first few articles (I started at the beginning when I found the site, several years ago) Mr. Money Moustache and his wife were able to save radically while working fairly decent jobs. The result being they we able to "retire" very early (20's?) and are offering tips and sharing methodology.

So without the background, yes the numbers can seem very low. But with the background, you may find all of the research that went into the home they have (paid for), the retirement accounts they comfortably live on while they continue to grow, and the side jobs he takes for fun (and profit), like buying and rehabbing rental properties alone and with others. Not to mention the healthy lifestyles (why drive when you can bike? Even in Colorado winters?).

Similar to any perceived extreme point of view/lifestyle, it has its fans and detractors. There are many who are very thankful for the guidance...

But I think it comes down to some basics that the American media (if not others) do not seem to promote very often: Earn well, save a large percentage, keep expenses low, invest well, continue to learn. Question perceived "necessities."

YMMV

<comment><USER13> I have no doubt that a highly disciplined individual could accomplish such a feat. But then add a wife or husband. Then add a child. It seems increasingly less likely for an average or even above average saver to accomplish what is being espoused. At least without major push back from the other people you are attempting to subject to this lifestyle.

I am honestly wondering what they do when people they know are doing something that costs money. Do they just skip it? Birthday dinner @ a restaurant - <USER2> it. Going to a sporting event - skip it. Kid is getting made fun of at school for wearing dollar store shoes - skip it. Kid wants to play school sports but costs $300/sport - skip it. Kid wants to go to dinner/movies with classmates - skip it. Holidays roll around, time to exchange gifts - skip it.

I guess what I am trying to say is that while extreme saving is a laudable goal, I highly doubt that their family budget is so neat and tidy. Exceptions come up all the time and you would have to put forth heroic efforts to say 'no' to most or all of them. You would also be making huge sacrifices and asking your SO and children to do the same.

<comment><USER14> Some of them are really entertaining reads, if you have the time you might want to check it out:

[http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/04/08/mr-money- mustaches...](http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/04/08/mr-money-mustaches- own-story/) [http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/04/10/post-4-what-am- i-s...](http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/04/10/post-4-what-am-i-supposed- to-do-with-all-this-money/) [http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/04/11/getting- started-2-...](http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/04/11/getting- started-2-the-higher-cause/)

Just the first few, it goes on.

To specifically answer your questions, you will find the answers in various posts on that site, but you will have to put in the time to read them.

And I agree with the sentiment expressed in one of these above links that the boilerplate of the advice will be found in many personal finance/retire early books. To me, this is a confirmation of what I would consider basic elements or basic truths. And much of it can be common sense, like paying off a high interest rate loan before lower interest rate loans. Or making due with the car/house I currently have, rather than saddling myself with a newer/bigger car/house. I have heard someone refer to this as the process of "striving," rather than the process of "arriving:" It can seem like we never have enough.

I am very fortunate to be male and in the United States, as I have read repeatedly that the world is not fair and I have it far better than many other humans. For this, I am thankful. But I also put in the work.

My wife and I are using the methods we learned from Robert Kiyosaki's Rich Dad/Poor Dad series (which also has it's fans and detractors) and doing quite well. A four-plex we bought two years ago allowed us to pocket US$8000.00 last year, and yet legally claim a loss of $800 due to IRS rules for deferred taxes.

But the same core lessons can be found (for free) at [http://www.financialintegrity.org](http://www.financialintegrity.org). And as I said, when I see the same basic guidelines being repeated by so many different people, I conclude that there is likely to be some basic truths buried therein.

Good reading to you!

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> MMM is handling this like pros! Hopefully this will serve as a blueprint for future people in similar situations.

<comment><AUTHOR> Maybe MMM site is a good place for it, maybe not - but the idea sounds great - to have a place where people can submit info about when this happens to them as well to publicize and share advice.

<comment><USER16> [http://www.chillingeffects.org/](http://www.chillingeffects.org/)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> I highly suggest going the "Something Awful" route, and simply just making fun of the lawyer(s) in question until they stop.

People like this should be treated the way they act. Like children.

<comment><USER18> Wasn't the "The Oatmeal" that made fun of a lawyer? [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Oatmeal_and_FunnyJunk_legal...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Oatmeal_and_FunnyJunk_legal_dispute)

<comment><USER19> Allow me to introduce you to Leonard "J." Crabs.

[http://www.somethingawful.com/hosted/crabs/](http://www.somethingawful.com/hosted/crabs/)

[http://www.somethingawful.com/legal- threats/](http://www.somethingawful.com/legal-threats/)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> Google cache: [http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:VT0QbIB...](http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:VT0QbIB2VY8J:www.mrmoneymustache.com/2014/03/11/mmm- receives-legal-threats-great-lawyer-wanted/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk)

</comment><comment><USER21> Did anybody else notice it said DCMA on the original lawyers letter?

      these posts infringe on our trademarks and copyrights in violation of the DCMA

[http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/wp- content/uploads/2014/03/ki...](http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/wp- content/uploads/2014/03/kisstrust_first_bullshit_letter.jpg)

</comment><comment><USER22> google cache of relevant MMM forum thread (removed):

[http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:tMinWjW...](http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:tMinWjWB6DYJ:www.mrmoneymustache.com/forum/investor- alley/kiss-trust-has-sent-a-legal-threat-to-this- blog/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&client=firefox-a)

</comment><comment><USER23> Organization who allegedly asked the lawyer to take action: [http://www.kisstrust.com/](http://www.kisstrust.com/)

* Maybe this was just an incompetent attorney, but regardless, taking legal action against a website for a comment posted really demonstrates that the company isn't capable of using its good reputation to handle the situation, and therefore lacks said reputation. Can't compete on the merits - GTFO. /rant

<comment><USER10> They seem to have a history of playing fast and loose with the law. See this thread on Bogleheads where forum posters discovered they took a forum member's post, put it on their site as a "review" with no link to the original thread, and had the gall to claim the text was "public domain": [http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=107952](http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=107952)

</comment></comment><comment><USER24> Well that was a good read. Seems that someone needs to learn how the internet works. Just put it on reddit and watch the Streisand effect in action :).

<comment><USER25> It got here, so I think the effect is already well under way :)

<comment><USER24> Right, but HN crowd is a bit more "classy". Now reddit on thee other hand.. you know how they work :)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> FWIW, the kisstrust.com website appears to be down (giving a 404). Furthermore, I'd like to express my opinion that these lawyers are a bunch of douchebags.

<comment><USER27> Dear Mr. Graham,

It has come to our attention that the commenter "viggity" on your "Hacker News" internet discussion forum has suggested that the practising partners at the Law Office of Mark B Williams, PLC are, and I quote, "a bunch of douchebags".

My clients at the Intimate Hygiene Manufacturers Association maintain that this is an unfounded slur on their products, and insist that the forum posting and any derived or related content be removed forthwith.

Yours etc.

</comment></comment><comment><USER28> This reminds me of a case I was involved in several years ago, [http://techcrunch.com/2008/07/17/channel-intelligence- sues-j...](http://techcrunch.com/2008/07/17/channel-intelligence-sues-just- about-everyone-who-offers-wishlists/) \- It ended up blowing up in their faces. I remember getting the phone number to the CEO of Channel Intelligence and calling him up directly. His response was, "Can you all just stop calling me! We'll fix this, just stop calling me!" I believe they were trying to collect license fees to establish their patent, but in the end they had to give it away for free to everybody involved. Those who wouldn't accept it got no further legal action. 5 years later Google bought Channel Intelligence. Go figure.

</comment><comment><USER29> Sounds like they would be pretty foolish to proceed with a lawsuit, doubly so if MMM happens to be in a state with a strong Anti-SLAPP law.

<comment><USER30> MMM is in Colorado, which does have statutory protections against SLAPP [1]

[1][http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_lawsuit_against_publi...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_lawsuit_against_public_participation#United_States_2)

</comment></comment><comment><USER31> RICO? That may be the most definitively _empty_ legal threat I have ever seen on the internet.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racketeer_Influenced_and_Corru...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racketeer_Influenced_and_Corrupt_Organizations_Act)

</comment><comment><USER32> As a lawyer who dabbles in IP/cyber law (not admitted in VA, so I can't help out), I really love seeing personal injury/criminal defense attorneys send cease and desist letters to publishers who are clearly protected under federal law.

</comment><comment><USER33> Second letter:

> _This will serve as formal notice to preserve all ISP [sic] addresses..._

To paraphrase Churchill: "I may be drunk, but in the morning I will be sober, whereas you will still be an idiot."

</comment><comment><USER34> There is no doubt you'll get flooded with offers to help. Someone reasonable, knowledgeable and efficient is going to have a good time.

</comment><comment><USER35> Well this one should be slam dunk to dismiss unless they file lawsuit in Texas eastern circuit court.

<comment><USER36> I think you misspelled "circus."

<comment><USER35> In original context those words are synonymous, so correction need not apply.

<comment><USER36> You raise a fantastic point, my friend.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER37> Slightly offtopic, but oddly enough MMM is also a name of the most famous Russian ponzi scheme from the 90s. Laughed a little bit, but no parallels, of course. All the luck to this blog.

</comment><comment><USER38> Marc Randazza or Popehat would make quick work of this fool.

</comment><comment><USER39> Try contacting Eric Goldman [http://blog.ericgoldman.org/](http://blog.ericgoldman.org/)

</comment><comment><USER40> I was surprised to see their site is still up. Making the internet mad at you, doesn't typically end well.

<comment><USER41> ...and it's down.

</comment></comment><comment><USER42> Completely off-topic, but I did not know about this website. Going to check it out as it sounds very useful!

<comment><USER43> Start reading at the very beginning of the blog and carry the thread forward -- I did this last fall when I first discovered it and found that process to be immensely rewarding. And not just because of all the gut laughing that ensued.

</comment></comment><comment><USER44> Will the original thread about KISS Trust be restored?

<comment><USER30> According to the blog post, they have restored the thread, however their database appears to be overloaded at the moment. [http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/forum/investor-alley/kiss- tru...](http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/forum/investor-alley/kiss-trust-has- sent-a-legal-threat-to-this-blog/)

<comment><USER45> From google's cache: [http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:tMinWjW...](http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:tMinWjWB6DYJ:www.mrmoneymustache.com/forum/investor- alley/kiss-trust-has-sent-a-legal-threat-to-this- blog/+&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER46> Looks like they might also need help scaling a website.

</comment><comment><USER47> Popehat

</comment><comment><USER48> not sure I understand what's going on here, why are they being threatened legally and who is doing it?

<comment><USER49> KISS Trust is a company that offers revocable trusts for people. Someone on the MMM forum said that this company was a scam and warned others to stay away. That post made the first page of Google for a search for KISS Trust, and the company noticed. They sent a cease and desist to the blog owner demanding that he take the post down. He refused. Now the company is getting more bad press because of the legal fight than from the original post. It might have been better to create an account and respond to the original poster directly to resolve the issue.

<comment><USER50> Just to be clear...

The first part of this post is correct. Except that after receiving the legal threat, the blog owner DID remove the offending forum thread.

But then the blog owner created a new thread describing the legal threat (can't be libelous to describe a business tactic they've actually employed, can it?), which has led to much additional discussion and bad press.

Oh, and there's apparently also a wikipedia editing war going on between the internet and the company PR person. Any guesses on how that one will end?

-new user, followed link from MMM blog to get here.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> What's wrong with contacting a lawyer if someone is writing things that are blatantly untrue? Has anyone here actually read the posts?

<comment><USER51> They are suing the forum owner/operator for something posted by a forum member. So roughly equivalent to me saying something here, and Paul Graham getting sued for it.

Also, the actual quote was "This scam product has been discussed here before. Stay away. It's a marketing ploy." Which I guess may be legally actionable, but given their behavior seems like it's quite likely true.

<comment><USER6> They would be sued for not taking down the post. If you post something here that is libel then someone can sue to force Paul Graham to take it down.

If MMM gets a lawyer he's going to end up defending the content of the post, not his right to operate his site independently.</comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: How often do you follow 9 AM – 5 PM work schedule? - <AUTHOR> <comment><USER2> Every work day if I can help it. (For the paying job, not the side hustles) They pay for 40 they get 40. Would adjust a bit if it was a super early startup because that's part of the deal sometimes.

</comment><comment><USER3> We are right in the middle of a scale effort. The truth is, we are all pulling 50's and sometimes a bit more, until quiet times. At those times, we make sure family / life balance is good.

In general, yes. That's the schedule when it makes sense. Mostly, we do what makes sense. Flextime.

All in all, the only real issue is when to have company wide meetings? Because we have accounts across the US, the middle of the day will work for everyone.

We all know what needs to get done, so we get it done. Lots of things simply don't matter when. It's all about the things that do matter.

In the past, when working in a more mature environment, yeah. Work the office hours, make sure they get what they pay for. Give a little, get a little when needed.

</comment><comment><USER4> Some school days I drop off and pick up children, so maybe 9:20am to around 2:40pm in the office, maybe a few hours at home as well.

Other days, might be meetings in the morning thru to evening conference call with our design center 12 hours time diff, could easily be 7am to 11pm or more, with the odd hour or two off in between.

But, I am a contractor/consultant and paid by the hour.

</comment><comment><USER5> I do 7/8 to 4 and usually eat at my desk. I'll work longer if needed but I'm usually twiddling my thumbs for an hour or two a day. Better than my last two jobs that encouraged 10-14 hour day minimums.

</comment><comment><USER6> It's usually 8 to 6.</comment>


'I Think Google's Pretty Dangerous and Thuggish. I've Always Said That.' - <AUTHOR> http://www.modernluxury.com/san-francisco/story/i-think-googles-pretty-dangerous-and-thuggish-ive-always-said

<comment><USER2> Pretty much like any massive multi-national corporation. But then, they also do a lot of amazingly good things too. I can't really defend them as if my life depended on it, but on balance are they really more evil than good?

</comment><comment><USER3> Interesting quote, but there's no there there.</comment>


Harvard Online Master's Degree - <AUTHOR> http://www.productivity501.com/harvard-masters-degree/6463/ <comment><USER2> Related topic, different country. I discovered last week you can take a MSc in Software Development with the Open University (a partially government-funded distance learning university in the UK): [http://www3.open.ac.uk/study/postgraduate/qualification/f26....](http://www3.open.ac.uk/study/postgraduate/qualification/f26.htm)

The really interesting part is if you have enough experience, you don't need to have an undergraduate degree to get into the prerequisite diploma course. So you get on to the diploma course which takes two years part time, then do the Masters project for a year.. no degree to Masters in 3 years. An education hack, if ever there were one. Who cares if you have an undergraduate degree when you have a Masters? (Genuine question - if there is a reason, let us know.)

The only downside, it's not cheap cheap. You're looking at about £1000 per unit and there are 8 units for the diploma. The Master's part is then £1900 ish. So that's about £10k ($16k) in all over 3 years. Still, only slightly more than a single year of undergraduate study in the UK from next year..

 _Note: Yes, this is really for people in the UK or Europe._

<comment><USER3> When I see CVs with masters degrees I can't help thinking "this person has been more interested in academic study than real world experience". I value the latter more. Some formal education is good to see, but I've seen too many masters students who can't cut it in a real world situation.

<comment><USER4> Well these part time, distance learning postgraduate degrees are usually professional degrees, so intended for those wanting to use the knowledge in their work rather than academic degrees, for those wishing to study further. They actually require and are normally integrated with actual real world experience.

My professional masters required me to actually do things at work, things that I wouldn't have done otherwise, and write about it, and turn it into a project etc.

Sure academics with academic Masters degrees look down on them, but then there are a lot of people, like you, who recognize that academic achievement is not an indicator of being able to get things done.

These professional masters are an ideal middle ground.

To be honest though, if I could have gotten interesting real world experience in the field I was interested in, I probably would not have considered the degree, but it was a chicken and egg situation for me unfortunately. In order to get a job where I could get experience, I had to have experience. So I started the degree, then switched to a job that was half way towards the area I wanted, and because I needed to do a project my employers were more willing to let me take on some work in the interesting area I wanted to work in. By the end of it, I had both real world experience, and a degree recognizing that experience. Without starting that course I still don't see how I could have broken in to either area.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> There is an irony in people thinking that this degree awarded from Harvard is a lesser degree than the other types, when this degree is awarded purely on academic merit (since admission is based on you already completing some of the courses), whereas mainstream Harvard is based on the opinions of some admissions officers.

</comment><comment><USER6> More recent:

[http://blog.markwshead.com/911/harvard-online-masters- degree...](http://blog.markwshead.com/911/harvard-online-masters-degree-in- software-engineering/)

Thought this was posted here before but I couldn't find it.

</comment><comment><USER7> Well, the real question is, what "value" is derived from said degree? Better job right away? Most of the times that isn't the case. I can understand the "value" in actually being on campus and interacting with the next Gates or Zuckerburg etc. Would attaching the Harvard section to your resume really make things that much better? Anyone have some stats/studies on this beyond anecdotal cases? The author doesn't really go into much details about what came out of his Harvard degree.

<comment><USER8> Interesting fact:

Two of the world's most famous billionaires attended Harvard and didn't stay long enough to finish a degree. Care to guess who they might be?

<comment><USER7> Yup, just another reason I ask. Actually, I know a few Harvard Dropouts who've gone a similar path, while not Billionaires, they've done more than OK. Anyone know where the Future Harvard Dropout Cafe is, that might be the place to be? :-P

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> As an elitist alum, I don't like these programs one bit. I can't help but feel that they are, in a small but meaningful way, watering down the value of my degree. And even though it's petty, I'm chagrined that my diploma features English rather than Latin text.

Harvard's Extension School was designed to teach the greater Boston community, and I think it should be a vehicle to improve town-gown relations, by convincing locals to not perceive Harvard as "the other". I certainly don't think it should have as part of its mission handing out Masters degrees to people from Kansas over the Internet.

<comment><USER10> Can you help me understand your statement 'watering down the value of my degree'? I'm curious, why do you feel that way?

<comment><USER11> Like it or not, part of the value of a Harvard degree is the signaling effect it carries. The signaling effect is, in large part, due to the selectivity of the school and the coursework.

Put more directly... if the extension school has a 10x higher acceptance rate and has easier classes, then it is probably diluting the signaling effect a bit.

<comment><USER12> What evidence do you have that extension classes are easier than their traditional counterparts? It's certainly easier to get into Extension than other Harvard colleges, but I see no evidence it's easier to graduate.

<comment><USER11> Mostly anecdotal, several of my friends have took classes through the program in high school. That's not to say that extension classes are trivial by any means.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


ACLU to Coal Baron: "You Can't Sue People for Being Mean to You, Bob." - <AUTHOR> http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr-esq/aclu-coal-baron-suing-hbos-john-oliver-you-cant-sue-people-being-mean-you-bob-1025919 <comment><USER2> You can if its defamation.

<comment><USER3> Don't you have to prove that it's untrue in most USA jurisdictions?

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> You can sue people for anything. Works better if you sue someone without enough money to defend himself, though.

</comment><comment><USER5> Here's the internet's favorite copyright attorney talking about this. It's a fun read. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Or0sfrz93O4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Or0sfrz93O4)

</comment><comment><USER6> I love streisand</comment>


Abandoning vs. Killing Projects - <AUTHOR> http://jrothman.com/blog/mpd/2008/11/abandoning-vs-killing-projects.html

<comment><USER2> There aren't enough companies that know how and when to give up on projects.

The two biggest mistakes are that people don't base their decision on relevant cash flows* and/or egos get involved.

No one likes 'throwing away' money (/time) or admitting that they were wrong, so marginal projects are allowed to linger on and on and on...

The best way to do the assessment is to get someone from the outside to take a look, who has no vested interests or loyalties. They don't have to be expensive, just able to add up and maintain independence. Once the costs of completing projects are out where everyone can see them the decisions sort of make themselves.

*Any income/expenditure that is going to happen in the future but could be changed by a decision now, excluding money already committed or spent and depreciation.</comment>


Can You Protect Your Image While on Facebook? - <AUTHOR> http://gadgetwise.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/24/can-you-protect-your-image-while-on-facebook/

<comment><USER2> Unless the issue is that you somewhere in facebook's TOS actually give permission to these things, isn't it just a simple copyright violation? You could send them a DMCA takedown notice or take them to court for damages.</comment>


Show HN: A better way to discover new movies/TV/games - <AUTHOR> https://www.raterfox.com/discover <comment><USER2> What's better about it?

<comment><AUTHOR> It's better because of the use of cutting edge blockchain, game-changing ai, huge big data and disruptive UX to just name a few random things.

<comment><USER3> Sarcasm? What's happening

<comment><AUTHOR> Sarcasm</comment></comment></comment></comment>


SVG Mask Artwork of the Intel 4004 - <AUTHOR> http://www.4004.com/2015-news.html <comment><USER2> [https://youtu.be/gPKZSuXAVMU](https://youtu.be/gPKZSuXAVMU) I was watching this 1972 Intel video about the applications of the 4004 chipset, and thought that this product was more complex in the engineering sense than what 95% of the current Unicorns produce now. I find this trend worrysome long term for the Silicon Valley.

<comment><USER3> You might be surprised about the complexity of what is being produced in those "Unicorns". If it were simple, it would have been created forty years ago.

It would also be interesting to compare the efforts made then with what it would take today to make as 4004-equivalent. It would certainly be much easier. Anyone in the field armed with the right tools care to hazard a guess?

<comment><USER2> You are talking about either _business_ complexity or the critical minimum amount of money that is necessary to enter and dominate a market. I am taking about the _engineering_ complexity.

They could not be created earlier for the same reason why Hollywood could not have been created in the 17th century: there was no motion pictures technology or modern internet distribution channels. But none of that tech has to do with Hollywood.

The engineering complexity of Airbnb is in the ARM SOC and in the GPS constellation, but not in their app.

<comment><USER4> It isn't necessary that a Unicorn must create something technically sophisticated and intricate. Airbnb is a service, not a tech product. This is an apples to oranges comparison.

There are plenty of startups that work on challenging engineering problems (though I'd have to google for the Unicorns who do that).

<comment><USER5> Then we should call it "Service Valley" and the people doing this "business men", not "Silicon Valley" and "software _engineer_ ".

Even comparing the engineering complexity of what Google does, and what Airbnb, Uber, etc do is impossible. Many large unicorns are doing nothing new, or special. They are only clicking existing technology together. Which means they are very easy to outcompete, too.

<comment><USER4> Whether you like it or not, Silicon Valley startups do have a habit of overemphasizing the tech aspects of their companies to get the best talent. It isn't a bad strategy, considering that it makes sure that your business or service isn't susceptible to a technologically superior startup showing up and providing the same services. It is indeed true that there isn't anything groundbreaking about Airbnb or Zenefits (at least technologically). Uber has disrupted the way we travel using technology. Though it isn't as complex as Google, it is still a valid disruption using tech.

Well, it isn't always true that unicorns are easy to outcompete. I could argue that Amazon (not AWS) isn't anything special either. The point of a unicorn isn't to develop complex tech. At scale, these companies are hard to beat.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Today a group of passionate undergraduates (guesstimate about 24 people) could probably design and build the schematics for the mask from ground up (not copying) as a semester project without neglecting the rest of their courses. The theory, the course material and the free tools (e.g for CAD and simulation) are that good!

44 years ago though, only a few talented engineers worldwide could implement it. :)

<comment><USER7> I would guess even less than 24. Today you can write your structural Verilog implementation, run an automatic mapping to a PDK standard cell library, and simulate to verify. The hardest part might be floor planning for something like that today. The placement and routing can all be automagical, and you won't have any timing closure issues at these speeds. I'd guess a single student could do it if sufficiently motivated. And, with CMP or MOSIS you could have it manufactured on a 350nm CMOS process by AMS for $2200 (20-25 pcs).

<comment><USER6> 24 people for doing the work Intel's engineers did. That is given the ISA and some hints (e.g a list of components they are going to need), to start from basic components and boolean expressions, convert them to CMOS circuits by hand and then draw them efficiently in a software like Magic.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> It is interesting and important that we refer to these masks as "artwork." Many of these older designs also have "signatures" etched into the silicon.

I claim that this notion extends to code, as well, and rightly into many other engineering and scientific projects (I suspect the pure math community might agree, i.e. by my reading of how they view their own discipline).

As an informal definition of art, I offer creativity within some bounds, i.e. the rules of the medium. Often, the tighter the bounds, the higher we elevate the end result (e.g. the most praised sonnet, or work of classical music). Here the bounds are pretty constrained: bug free, implements the ISA, manufacturable, and competitive and profitable.

As with many here, I am frustrated with my work when it is reduced to "turning the crank," but I suspect many writers (e.g. your Reuter's journalist) feel the same; and of course, we could introduce other examples from other disciplines. If working on a ground breaking project, then I can focus on that and derive some satisfaction from my contribution to that end.

Finally, my point: I submit these masks as evidence of the artificial dichotomy between the liberal arts and engineering disciplines. There should be more acknowledgement of the art produced on both sides of this divide, and more crossing the aisle (so-to-speak) from the thought leaders in this debate. Of course we need to train our next generation to work with these machines, and of course we should not kick the traditional liberal arts out of the curriculum. Sheesh. But I really would like some push back that claims our ground, i.e. technical achievement of this kind as art.

<comment><USER9> I've always disagreed with the statement that elegant engineering is art. The purpose of art is to convey a statement or emotion while engineering is to deliver the best possible solution within a pile of constraints. Scientific and engineering findings should not be seen as anything more than the outcomes of a puzzle. Although 2 engineers may arrive at slightly different results it is easy to score them and select the correct path. In art this is not possible as both artists are conveying their message, not presenting a solution.

<comment><USER10> "The purpose of art is to ...." Um, no, Art can have any purpose its creator bestows, including none at all.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> I'm not sure I know how to estimate this, but I'd like to know how many 4004s you could fit on a die the size of the original 4004, if you used today's smallest transistor technology.

<comment><USER12> I think the 4004 was a 10um (micrometer) technology and new we have 14nm (nanometer) transistors. So the individual transistors are 1400 times smaller in linear dimensions. So you could plausibly pack 1400*1400 = 1960000 or almost 2 million of those into a same sized die.

<comment><USER13> Lets build a 1000 core cpu. And since the bottleneck will be the connections, let's build them as SOCs and bundle them with ram and ethernet.

<comment><USER14> Here's 144: [http://www.greenarraychips.com/](http://www.greenarraychips.com/). Built to run Forth by the guy that invented Forth using Forth: [http://www.colorforth.com/vlsi.html](http://www.colorforth.com/vlsi.html).

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> Is it possible to DIY 4004 now, given all the information? :)

<comment><USER16> Definitely, if you just want implement one in a HDL. For instance the RISC-V ISA has been implemented multiple times in various languages [for instance: [https://github.com/ucb-bar/riscv-sodor](https://github.com/ucb-bar/riscv- sodor)]. RISC-V is quite a bit more complex than the 4004 ISA.

If you want to DIY the entire chip, as in manually lay out the transistors, I suppose it can be done if you have quite a bit of experience in electrical engineering, but it'd be rather cumbersome given the 'modern' (as far as HDL tooling is modern) tooling that is already available.

<comment><USER15> Thank you, but the idea was to actually recreate the die itself. That's where one can use all those available masks.

FPGA path is nice, but masks are useless - and instead a HDL is needed, with the whole 'nother toolchain.

<comment><USER17> "Fabbing" your own ICs is very hard. I know only of a single DIY effort which succeed and it takes much equipment and knowledge. Personally, I'd be happy to make just a couple of transistors (see also: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10558206](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10558206))

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> "Credits: Federico Faggin, in many ways, including 4001 prototypes"

And credits to Masatoshi Shima most of all (initially from Busicom but came to work at Intel and was mostly responsible for the 8080 as well, then the Z80).

</comment><comment><USER19> I don't see "SVG" mentioned anywhere in that article

<comment><USER20> This is your clue:

New: Scalable Vector Mask Artwork _for Museum-sized Exhibits_

My guess is that you have to license it from them.

<comment><USER21> The drawing is undergoing verification. When it's been verified it'll be posted on the download page: [http://www.4004.com/#downloads](http://www.4004.com/#downloads)

<comment><USER20> Very cool. My plan is to use it to make a 4004 out of acrylic :-) (probably 36 " x 35" )

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> Beautiful :)

Is there a diagram with all the logic gates of this CPU available somewhere?

Not sure if it's possible to tell that from this mask, I guess it is for an expert?

<comment><USER16> [http://www.4004.com/assets/4004-lajos- schematics.gif](http://www.4004.com/assets/4004-lajos-schematics.gif)

That might be one.

<comment><USER23> Wow; that's even cooler than what OP was asking for. It's the actual transistor logic of the chip, unobscured by gate symbols. Very cool! It's simpler than I would have guessed!

<comment><USER24> "unobscured"?

transistor level schematics are kind of unreadable at this scale. It's a better idea to represent them as blocks or at least at the gate level and notate the specifics like timing and such.

<comment><USER23> It's not easy, but it's possible. I wouldn't want to deal with one much bigger than this, though.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Mapping the World, one Tweet at a Time - <AUTHOR> http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/amislove/tweetmap/

<comment><USER2> Very fun to look at :) Though I'm not sure about what novel insights one might get from this work.

Also, I wonder why there's a nice rectangular cluster of tweets around Japan.

<comment><AUTHOR> It's good seeing the major roads so clearly defined outside cities.

There are a fair bunch of oddities going on in it though.</comment></comment>


System Overload - <AUTHOR> http://www.edragonu.ro/system-overload/ <comment><USER2> Flow is a very interesting concept, but I don't think the author gets it right when he says he doesn't have it at all.</comment>


Why Learning to Code Won't Save Your Job - <AUTHOR> http://www.fastcompany.com/3058251/the-future-of-work/why-learning-to-code-wont-save-your-job <comment><USER2> I'm not sure I agree. Sure a little coding on the side won't save you. But being able to create something out of thin air, to look at a problem and solve it, that will always be worth something. Problems won't magically go away. There's no one-size-fits-all recipe to run a business, so there's always room for improvement.

</comment><comment> UK-AL I find developing a decent product requires people to be on a proper 'jelled' team.

Hiring freelancer may get you a nice MVP. But to build a proper product, you need really good communication between customers and various departments, team work, and slick processes.

Cutting code is a small part of a software devs job.

<comment><USER3> agreed. but (at my current job anyway), i'm paid to put a smile on my CTO's face each day, not make a decent product. very, very different goals.

<comment><USER4> That sounds like a form of prostitution.

<comment><USER5> All work is a form of prostitution.

<comment><USER6> No - at least not using conventional definitions. Prostitution, in this context, means doing something immoral for money. Producing something that other people need isn't immoral. (Unless you _define_ it to be immoral to not give away what you produce, but then it's your definition that's the problem.)

Putting a smile on the CTO's face rather than producing something of value is arguably immoral. It's not producing what you're "supposed to" produce. (Whether it is _actually_ immoral depends on how you define "supposed to", and what weight you give it.)

<comment><USER7> Worked in healthcare, some of our practices were much more immoral (not illegal) than trading sex for money. Part of why I'm not there anymore.

<comment><USER8> Please do elaborate, if you can.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> In economic terms, we've reached 'peak people'.

It takes the a fraction of the manpower to maintain the current level of human culture, traditions, knowledge, and capabilities. Technology and the arts have accelerated so much in such a short time that we're running out of creative, original ideas faster than the masses can consume them.

Coding will remain relevant but most other jobs related to the day-to-day maintenance of mankind's existence will be automated out of existence.

<comment><USER10> Not unless we can solve the energy problem. The reality we've known all our lives is not a sustainable trend.

<comment><USER9> Sustaining human life, especially in 'developed' nations requires a lot more than energy.

People focus on energy, technology, and conservation as the solution. It's like trying to patch a bullet wound with a band-aid. Nothing saves resources more effective than reducing the population and the overall human population is still growing at a dramatic rate.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> Don't forget that automation is expensive and fragile. It will cost a lot to maintain automated systems and it will cost less to keep people alive. So sooner or later people will just be hired to do jobs that require dexterity and creativity, for a little bit of money, which will be more than enough to buy a comfortable life.

</comment><comment><USER12> "Temporary job security at best" perfectly describes my situation. I never struggled with the math, nor felt threatened by job automation, but learning how to program and develop apps over the past year hasn't exactly saved me either. My only leads, if ever, are small gigs I find through personal connections. My first and only real job (as a developer) was a nightmare, being asked to fix bugs on cancelled projects to, as they said, "prove myself". The cherry on top was when they decided to stop paying me halfway through. Now I'm out thousands in unpaid wages I have to fight for...

</comment><comment><USER13> Interesting, is this the reason more people are looking at basic income ?</comment>


Ask HN: What's stopping you from starting your own business?  - <AUTHOR>

Hi everyone,
I'm working on a product that I think will help people start their own businesses. I believe pretty much every tech-savvy person has the potential for it, and it always saddens me when I meet such people and even though they like the idea of having their own business, can't seem to actually do it for one reason or another. This is an attempt on knowing what are the main reasons for this.
I'm not just talking about potential multimillion dollar startups, but also the kind of businesses that one person can start and run, even while having a day job: a web app, a mobile app, an eBook, a video-based learning product, etc. I'm focusing mainly in my own biggest pain point, so I thought I could run a little survey here and see if that's a common pain point as well or is there a bigger issue I should be addressing.
Either I don't have enough karma or can't find the option to submit a survey, so here's a Wufoo survey (it's a one option form):
SURVEY: http://bit.ly/JIN7Sd
For those who don't want to do that, here are the options, in case you prefer to just elaborate on the comments:
1. I don't want to start a business.
2. I already run a business.
3. I can't come up with any idea I like.
4. I don't think I have the right skills for it or that I'm capable to run my own business.
5. I'm just not good at having to come up with and do everything in a business. I prefer to focus only on what I do best (p.e. programming).
6. I don't have the resources for what I want to build.
7. I don't want to do it alone and can't find a good co-founder.
8. I don't know if my idea will make a good business, so I don't want to risk time or money.
9. I don't have the time and can't quit my job.
10. I don't have the motivation or discipline.
11. I can start it, but can't get enough traction / revenue to call it "successful".
12. Other. Please specify below. <comment><USER2> A variant of #3 - an idea that I not only like, but that I believe in, that I'm passionate about, and that fires up my imagination and verve so much that I'm willing to take it through the long period to successful completion.</comment>


Ask HN: Is it time for a new browser? - <AUTHOR>

Recently I've seen more and more comments on HN and on other sites about the history of browser becoming bloated and needing to be replaced. Chrome replaced Firefox for many and, while lightweight and fast in it's early days, it has too become bloated; they are even working on a terminal emulator[0].
I'm also seeing a rise of distrust towards Google, as they are growing in size. Google is the new Microsoft but it's still 'cool' in the tech world. We must not forget that Google's business is that of serving advertisement, all their products are geared towards this. Yet they also improve the web by pushing open standards (Although the HTML5 player on YouTube, e.g., is inferior to the Flash player).
While Chrome never was very configurable (How does one change the shortcut for opening a new tab) Google really cut in this area. Without an extension you can't even change the New Tab page, and their recent revamp of it certainly isn't popular with everybody.
Now I ask you, HN, do you think it's time for a new browser? There is an incredible concentration of smart, competent people on HN and I think that this could be project carried out by this community. This is the chance to really scratch an itch and a lot of people would profit from this.
[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3344678 <comment><USER2> I've always liked to have a browser in which each tab (or window, and then allow sharing between tabs) is isolated, like a separate profile in Firefox. No cookie sharing, no cache sharing, and block all other tricks to communicate and find out what is running in other tabs or what other sites you're logged in to.

In OSes there is more and more isolation between processes, why not at a browser level too. It improves security (no more CSRF, for starters) as well as privacy (sites can no longer track you as easily).

<comment><USER3> Internet Explorer does that. Use Ctrl + Shift + P for opening an InPrivate windows. Every window runs in its own process.

<comment><USER2> Interesting! But would this be supercookie-proof? (site local storage, flash cookies, cache tokens, etc?)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> I want to see up front viewing of cookie data per request. This should have been there day one so people could have more control and visibility over what's being tracked about them, and easier ways to delete cookies. It would have avoided years of paranoia and misinformation.

Also, a "find" bar "on" all the time in a browser (as if someone hit ctrl-f when the page opened) so people realize they can actually search in a page instead of slowly scrolling and wasting their time.

<comment><USER5> I don't think this would help. I've watched people deal with the unknown SSL certificate prompts in Firefox...they just mash "OK" "Accept" "Agree" until the SSL warnings go away.

Only a handful of sites use SSL certs, but every site uses cookies. Many sites use multiple cookies. Can you imagine the nightmare of that many popups asking you about every cookie?

<comment><USER4> I said _nothing_ about popups. popups are horrible. Once you've said yes or no to them, you can't ever go back and review what you did.

A small sidebar widget that opened when clicked to give you a clear view of the cookies that are associated with the current page, with a quick 'delete' on each or all if you're not comfortable with the info there, would be great.

It shouldn't require firebug or 4-5 levels of "advanced" preferences menus to view stuff like that. That level of hiddenness contributes to paranoia about stupid stuff. In some sense we're a bit past that (I'm thinkin 1997-2000 era panic about "cookies") but it still continues with new generations of users, and it's not gotten any easier to view this fundamental stuff that's being tracked right on your own computer.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> I like the idea of a hacker centric browser that peels away the cruft that typical end users like to see and makes Inspecting HTML/CSS, Debugging JS, and Performance Diagnostics a first class citizen in a better way than Web Inspector or Firebug do.

Being able to have an easy way to switch rendering engines on the fly but retain the same tooling would also be pretty damn awesome.

While a community based effort for this would be cool, I would totally pay money for something like this.

<comment><USER7> Just out of curiosity - what are your beefs with (Chrome) Web Inspector? I think it's fantastic, but am interested in hearing your opinion(s).

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> I would like to see a browser that is keen on letting me know vulnerabilities by being very verbose about them, but without getting in the way.

For example if facebook is eating my browsing data on other sites just because I have logged into facebook, or even while I log out (<http://soshable.com/facebook-tracking/>) then this (also-very-fast) browser would let me know this in case I want to do something about it

</comment><comment><USER9> I would like the ability to access and manipulate all of "my" browser data in a pipelined command line environment similar to a shell. I want to be able to easily get at all my bookmarks, tabs, plugins, tabs, the dom, history, cookies, super cookies, megalomaniacal cookies, etc, i.e. everything that changes the browser due to my actions, and list it, count it, query it, twist it and tease it.

I'd like that data and environment to be available from within the browser, and bonus points if I could easily get at it from a traditional [[t]c|k|z|da|ba]sh shell.

And I'd rather use a shell-like language, not javascript, but if javascript were the only way to do this then hell yeah I'd use it.

</comment><comment><USER10> I would like a webkit based browser that can only open local files. I want to be free of the security restrictions (as I understand them) which do not allow me (for example) to save the text I enter in a textarea to a file on my desktop. Finally, I do not want to use a local server.

I do not want to deal with local servers either

</comment><comment><USER11> I want something like "The 4-hour-web-browser" inspired by the book "The Four Hour Workweek." A web browser that limits the number of pages you can view each day to save time. Do you really need to visit Facebook 5 times each day? If you try to visit Facebook 2 times the web browser says No!

</comment><comment><USER12> Have you see Uzbl? <http://uzbl.org/>

Their tagline is "web interface tools which adhere to the unix philosophy".

Uzbl is WebKit, and very little else. Highly script-able and customize-able.

<comment><USER9> Never heard of it, just tried it. I can see this ending up being my favorite browser, if I can peel off the time to figure out bookmarks. If I understand, the answer is "manage them yourself," which is mostly thrilling if slightly off-putting. I'll try to get to that soon.

<comment><USER12> I've only recently come across it myself. When I find the time to set up bookmarks and a low-maintenance ad block script I think uzbl may become my favorite browser as well. (Embedding uzbl in emacs would also be quite handy for in-frame web site testing or online reference materials.)

There are samples of each of these (and more), but like many FOSS projects a fair bit of the documentation is incomplete, out-of-date or both.

I love that uzbl adheres to the "unix-philosophy". Very powerful. For example, with uzbl it should be trivial (well, straightforward at least) to generate image thumbnails of web pages or to create an automated functional testing framework.

Uzbl should also be useful for kiosk applications, as you can easily obscure or lock down most of the general-purpose browsing controls.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> What would be the features you'd like to see in a new browser, other than 'fast'? I think seamless synching of history/bookmarks/passwords over all platforms including mobile would be nice. What else?

<comment><USER14> 1\. Send random user agent on each connection.

2\. Never send referrer.

3\. Built-in blocking of all tracking and ads.

4\. Javascript disabled by default.

<comment><USER15> While I agree that having a super detailed UA string sent isn't in the best interest of my privacy, there is a sort of "tragedy of the commons" problem if everyone did that. If website maintainers/webmasters/web developers didn't collect that data, they wouldn't know what platforms to optimize and account for when designing. (Yes, best practices dictate that a website should work well on all platforms, but best practices aren't always followed.)</comment></comment></comment>


What is Lisp syntax, really, and the use-mention distinction - <AUTHOR> http://axisofeval.blogspot.com/2012/04/what-is-lisp-syntax-really-and-use.html <comment><USER3> I'm not quite sure that it's just the line between using and mentioning the syntax. Template Haskell uses a syntax element called Oxford brackets ([| and |]) to grab the AST for a piece of Haskell. This is very easy but Haskell _still_ doesn't have the same compile-time macro programming as Lisp.

I think the reason that Lisp metaprogramming works so well is just that Lisp basically has no syntax and the simplest reasonable grammar. Lisp syntax is just the AST with nested brackets. This means that modifying the Lisp syntax structure is equivalent to modifying the AST.

Fundamentally, you can make accessing the AST as easy as possible, but at the end of the day you're still accessing the AST so you can change the AST. The more complicated the AST, the more complicated the change will need to be.

<comment><USER4> I think they have somewhat different use cases. Lisp's approach works best if you don't really want to analyze a fragment of code deeply, but just want to specify a new construct by looking one level deep in the AST, like the classic example of implementing "cond" or "if" as a macro.

But if you actually want to walk recursively down an AST, the fact that it's _hard_ to get a usable AST in Lisp makes metaprogramming difficult and error- prone. For many uses, I don't really want the _source code_ to a Lisp fragment, but the AST, in the sense of a semantically marked-up fragment that's resolved variable bindings and done all the other things a parser does.

Implementing a correct code-walker for Common Lisp is... really nontrivial. The best available one I've found is in Arnesi, [http://common- lisp.net/project/bese/docs/arnesi/html/A_0020C...](http://common- lisp.net/project/bese/docs/arnesi/html/A_0020Code_0020Walker.html) Whereas walking a Haskell AST fragment is trivial.

<comment><USER3> After thinking about it, I agree. Sometimes that semantic information or metadata can be very useful in operation. Specifically, having typing information and pattern-matching can be a Godsend in many cases.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Isn't he basically just saying "quote" ? In this hypothetical graphical interface, what is the color around letrec bindings ? I'm presuming green again, which is an appropriate way of differentiating "here be dragons", but it doesn't really indicate what the semantics _are_. That green box could just as well be a Clojure vector. I think having separate colors to indicate specific well-known semantics would indeed be less Lispy (but this might not necessarily be a bad thing).

It occurs to me that most of what made/makes Lisp so powerful historically (expression-based and everything-is-an-object, for example) is probably quite different from what differentiates it today (which probably has more to do with the assumptions that Lisps _don't_ force on you)

<comment><USER6> I think his example is a bit tough to understand and it might be easier to use another one.

Consider the Julia language. Julia is homoiconic -- Julia code is made of Julia data structures: <http://julialang.org/manual/metaprogramming/>

Imagine for a second that Julia didn't have the :() quote form, and if you wanted to build up some syntax you had to use constructors, something like this:

        a + b - <USER2>

        Expr(type="call", function=Symbol("+"),
             args=[Expr(type="symbol", name="a"),
                   Expr(type="call",
                        function=Expr(type="symbol", name="-"),
                        args=[Expr(type="symbol", name="b"),
                              Expr(type="symbol", name="c")])])

(obviously not valid Julia, but that doesn't matter for now)

This would still make Julia homoiconic, but the different between "using" the expression (the first line) and "mentioning" it (the horrible Expr thing) is much greater.

Clojure does have more syntax than Common Lisp, but its syntax is still "near at hand" because it's still made up of the things you use every day. Functions use [] for arguments, but that's just a vector which you use anyway. There's not really much syntax in Clojure where "mentioning" it is harder than "using" it.

<comment><USER5> But the only real difference between "using and mentioning" seems to be the presence of (quasi)quote. I haven't looked at Julia, but I'm presuming you can do :(a + b - c), which _mentions_ the syntax. But as you point out, the _manipulation_ is still annoying because the syntax tree is strongly typed. In fact, the typing strength of the syntax tree seems roughly equivalent to the amount of "syntax dedicated to semantics" a language has, which is the point that the author starts off trying to refute.</comment></comment></comment>


Python URL manipulation made simple. - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/gruns/furl

<comment><USER2> Neat! One problem I can see is that query strings aren't dictionaries, so valid parameters can vanish:

        >>> furl('http://www.example.com?foo=1&foo=2')
        furl('http://www.example.com?foo=1')

See Werkzeug's MultiDict for one way to handle this correctly.

<comment><AUTHOR> Query parameters as a dictionary was an ease of use tradeoff over the rarely utilized flexibility of repeated query parameters.

      https://github.com/gruns/furl/blob/master/furl.py#L142

Werkzeug's MultiDict looks like a good combination for the best of both worlds, ease of use and flexibility. Thanks for the reference.

<comment><USER3> Repeated query parameters aren't "rarely utilized" -- look at how any sort of checkbox or other multi-select works.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Most of those tools don't like IRI like: <http://müller.de/> or the most famous <http://☃.net> (<http://xn--n3h.net/>) and that's a shame! Just like many URL shorteners…

For example, Django do it wrong (even though I tried: <https://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/11522>):

        >>> print(django.VERSION)
        (1, 3, 1, 'final', 0)
        >>> print(django.http.HttpResponseRedirect(u"http://müller.de))
        Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
        Location: http://m%C3%BCller.de

While werkzeug is good!

        >>> print(werkzeug.__version__)
        0.8.1
        >>> werkzeug.redirect(u"http://müller.de).headers
        Headers([('Content-Type', 'text/html; charset=utf-8'),
                 ('Content-Length', '247'),
                 ('Location', 'http://xn--mller-kva.de)]

</comment><comment><USER5> Interesting - would this make sense to be included into Requests [<http://docs.python-requests.org/en/latest/index.html>] in some way?

<comment><USER6> I've been contemplating the same thing, actually. I'm not sure if this exact library belongs (maybe), but some of the functionality could definitely be useful.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> Similar project: <https://github.com/zacharyvoase/urlobject>

I built a template library for Django on top of it: <https://github.com/j4mie/django-spurl>

</comment><comment><USER8> Looks awesome! I don't have a use for it at the moment, but I'll keep it in mind for future projects.

Edit: Does anyone have more information on the license? I do plan to build amazing things, but it would be nice to know under what conditions I can release those amazing things to the public. I assume it means no restrictions, but I'd hate to go stepping on someone's toes.

<comment><AUTHOR> No restrictions. Use however you deem fit.

<comment><USER9> You should include an explicit license on github, if you want others to use it.

<comment><USER10> Can you share some pointers?

E.g. a page giving an overview of BSD, GPLv2, GPLv3, LGPL, the Creative Commons bunch (no idea if they are usable for source code). Basically I'm wondering if there's a "Intro to licensing your crap on github" post somewhere on the net...

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> Interesting, but, to be fair, I don't find urlparse or urllib to be all that frustrating or tedious to use.

<comment><USER12> Yea, this just seems like rearranging the tokens to achieve the same result. Though, the same sort of thing could be said about path.py, which I absolutely love using.

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> I wrote a similar Python library (named yuri) a couple of months back: <https://github.com/jparise/yuri>

I was motivated to write it in response to one of Quora's Programming Challenges (<http://www.quora.com/about/challenges>). It seemed like a fun problem, and I had never had a good reason to read through the applicable RFCs. I wonder if furl was similarly motivated?

I don't find the standard library modules very difficult to use, however, so I haven't spent much more time on it since then.

</comment><comment><USER14> This looks like a nice library. So is python-requests. Every time I see this sort of libraries though, I can't help to wonder - why standard python libraries are so bad that people need to create these helpers.

<comment><USER15> They aren't "so bad", you can't expect the standard library to meet the requirements of everyone. Most of what this library achieves can be done with urlparse, it just has some additional "nice to haves". Also, see the comments about not using a MultiDict as a good indicator of why this problem isn't solved in the stdlib.

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> I attempted something similar, but got caught up trying to make it span all URIs and attempting to create an RFC-compliant implementation:

      https://github.com/bsandrow/urilib

</comment><comment><USER17> I love anything that adds developer productivity and reduces developer pain, so I definitely love this. Here's hoping it catches on within the Python community.

</comment><comment><USER18> very interesting, i ran into urlparse's shortcomings while prototyping a web crawler just last week! i created something similar to identify domain, subdomain, directories, pages, and fqdn. note that if you run sockets.getfqdn against most cloud servers then you get some weird string with ip numbers e.g. 184.108.40.206.static.cloud-server.com

let's merge some code!</comment>


Remote Pair Programming with Screen and Vim - <AUTHOR> http://haruska.com/2009/09/29/remote-pair-programming/

<comment><USER2> I can only second the recommendation. Skype + Screen & vim over ssh is a great way to collaborate in a distributed environment. We are all working from home since 2005 and it worked pretty well so far.

</comment><comment><USER3> We do the same thing with Emacs and SLIME, though we are transitioning to Rudel for most of our work: <http://technomancy.us/129>

<comment><USER4> you might be interested in this talk about shared editing in Eclipse (using the Eclipse Communication Framework).

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfeUCT-tRJQ>

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> It's good stuff.

All my employees work from home and when we need to get together to bang on something, we use a shared desktop over VNC. Getting the appropriate responsiveness and speed out of VNC is a matter of using the right client; plain-vanilla standard VNC and UltraVNC is pretty slow, but TightVNC is quite acceptable. I haven't had any problems with NAT traversal on it either, although we run OpenVPN internally and every person's work machine is on it, so the routing is directly over the tunnel to a server reachable only through the VPN concentrator.

My favourite thing about VNC is that it really scales fairly well even to a large number of remote viewers, and doesn't incur licensing costs per marginal head. We are also VoIP guys, so of course we run Asterisk internally and all have pretty decent handsets or softphones that are just one three-digit extension away from each other. Push a few buttons and we can all hop on an internal conference bridge and on our shared VNC - it gets things done.

Still, sometimes it's too much overhead just to perform a simple task and screen does quite well.

</comment><comment><USER6> This was instrumental in getting help to tough problems over IRC when I was still learning the ropes. Screen is an amazing, amazing program.

</comment><comment><USER7> We used SSH + screen + vim/emacs for a ton of code reviews and collaborative work at Linden Lab during Second Life development. Even with Second Life + voice in constant use for distributed standups and design discussions -- and SubEthaEdit in use for some text sharing -- SSH + screen + vim was invaluable.

</comment><comment><USER8> I've used GoTo Meeting and also setup custom VNC servers to do the same thing with skype for voice or IM chat along with it. VNC works pretty seamlessly in mac and ubuntu.

</comment><comment><USER9> I think that it contradicts the main principle of pair programming that is, you have to be physically near the other programmer.

<comment><USER10> As someone who has never really done pair programming but is kind of interested in maybe someday giving it a try, why is this the case? My impression was that the purpose was more to have a mind focused on solving problems at the same time as another mind is focused on finding issues with the proposed solutions, possible bugs, etc?

Why do you need physical presence for this to work?

<comment><USER9> Because it's much easier to communicate directly than by using computer : you don't have the same workflow, for instance, and in my opinion, when you're not in the same room, you partner is passive.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> Am I correct in assuming this is impossible on a machine for which you do not have root access?

<comment><USER12> No. Multi-user screen does not require root access.

<comment><USER11> According to this article it does: <http://magazine.redhat.com/2007/09/27/a-guide-to-gnu-screen/>

It says that I need to be able to run:

        chmod u+s /usr/bin/screen
        chmod 755 /var/run/screen

Is there a way to bypass that or do I have to install screen in my home directory? I'd like to limit the amount of crap I have to install in ~/. They hardly allow any space on these campus machines.

<comment><USER12> That may have been necessary to get multi-user screen to work with two different users, but you shouldn't have to do that to make it work with two instances of the same user.

Depending on your distro and how screen is packaged, it might just work out of the box.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> for the comparison to be fair it is important to mention that with iChat screen sharing you also get voice chat, and when there is to work on web applications it is pretty cool to be able to also _share_ the browser window.

</comment><comment><USER14> We remote pair all the time with Skype, VNC, then whatever editor the typist is most comfortable in (in our company always emacs). It works really well long as no one is having a bad net connection day.</comment>