Show HN: New platform for finding work - $2000 project minimum - <AUTHOR> http://www.codeyouridea.com/coders/

<comment><USER2> I'm a little confused at the pricing.

Why would I require access to a constant stream of developers to code my projects? Is the supply that bad? Am I running developers out of town?

To me, it seems that you would use a service like this to establish working relationships and then _continue to use those same working relationships_ in the future. In this model, it seems rather silly to pay you a monthly fee, and if I find a coder quickly you're not making much off of me.

The interesting issue is that websites like this are doing the exact same thing that professional recruiters do - playing matchmaker. The problem I have is that if you look at the recruiters that are really good, one of the first things that comes to light is that they our outstanding at building relationships. It's not so much about being selective as it is about understanding need and fit.

My concern is that the very thing that makes the process work well is completely absent on the web. It's hard to assess personality and fit without meeting a person and/or working with them in person.

I wish you the best of luck but I'm not sure if this is a technical problem at all.

</comment><comment><USER3> Design is really important to me when deciding where to take my business. I love the idea, but the web site could use some serious design love.

For instance: That block of text might be good for SEO, but no one will ever read it.

<comment><USER4> Other small nitpicks:

\- The footer floats in the middle of the terms of service page, covering up text

\- In the pricing pop up, "Why we charge for CodeYourIdea.com?" is not a real sentence. Eliminate the question mark or add a "do".

<comment><AUTHOR> thanks! fixing now

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> It's good that at least someone is trying to address this. There are no decent freelance/telecommuter oriented job sites. The ones out there are generally geared toward the "let's outsource to India" style gigs -- I really can't compete with Indonesian teenagers for $10/hr PHP work. I have a feeling there is a huge swath of untapped talent out there being ignored by companies who are still in the 20th century and demand on-site employees.

<comment><USER6> I think you won't find many Indonesian kids in India coding PHP. Indonisia is quite a different country from India, and not particularly known for it's booming IT outsourcing opportunities :P

<comment><USER5> I did not mean that literally Indonesian teenagers are in India finding PHP jobs. I meant that people in many poor countries (Indonesia, India, Philippines etc) must be competing for these minimum wage programming jobs.

<comment><USER6> I was just pointing out a mildly embarrassing factual error in your argument (but one that is made frequently); your points remain valid of course :)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> This is a great idea, It's hard for people with little tech experience to find a good hacker/coder and it's hards to find clients with a sufficient budget for a project. So here is my biz dev advice..

1) Your concept of screening coders for talent is important, only accept people who can get things done.

2.) Only charge developers a monthly fee. The collective fees should be enough to cover the cost of an ongoing marketing campaign to attract the right businesses and entrepreneurs.

3.) Educate businesses and single entrepreneurs about the cost of projects, and cost of talent and explain trade offs for paying less. Experienced coders may cost more, but they have the experience can work faster, less learning on job....coders who charge less may be less experience, in different time zone, not so fluent in native language, etc. Provide rough estimates based on info on past projects. i.e. Angry brids cost about $150,000 to create. ([http://www.develop-online.net/news/37242/Angry-Birds-cost- Ro...](http://www.develop-online.net/news/37242/Angry-Birds-cost- Rovio-100k-has-made-50m_) )

4.) The education is important and it provides prescreen of potential clients, only accept projects that fall within reasonable guidelines.

5.) Do not charge businesses a monthly fee. as mentioned by MatthewB "If it takes any more than a month to find a dev, there's something wrong with your system." Once developer has been found, charge business/entrepreneur fee per projects because you're providing technical screening service.

Note: So the idea is to take some elements of successful services like elance, etc and raise the bar. setting up useful guidelines and an effective marketing campaign will not be easy.

<comment><USER8> Only charge developers a monthly fee? Last I checked it is hard to find developers and not hard for developers to find work. I doubt many developers would pay to be listed, I know I wouldn't.

<comment><USER7> Sure there are many developers who won't need the service, but there also plenty of developers who wouldn't mind having a service to filter out the silly and bogus request. It's not about finding any kind of work, it's about finding the right work at the right pay. The goal is to match quality jobs with talented developers.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> I hate to say it but $2,000 sounds a bit cheap. I'm assuming that most people who want to "code an idea" aren't looking for a WordPress install but something that's a bit more grand and may require doing a spec. If a coder is $50 an hour $2,000 is just 40 hours (i.e. one week): In my experience you'll spend at least that doing bug fixes and QA (even on a small project).

Maybe you should even set the minimum at $5k? If you're not willing to spend $5k on your idea then it can't be a very good idea if you know what I mean. And I say this as a designer who isn't a coder...

<comment><AUTHOR> We debated this number at length... We don't usually do projects for less than 5k, but every once in a while there is something small and quick that is worth it. We figured start low and if we need to raise the bar we will. Thanks for the feedback.

<comment><USER10> Maybe projects could be classified as $2K, $5k, $10k, +?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> You know, having coders or designers submit 30 second videos describing their skills and previous projects is an easy way to differentiate from other freelancing sites. Let non-paying visiters to the site see that as well. I would feel like I was getting a much higher quality batch of bid responses if I was able to see 30 sec videos of developers communicating their skills and previous projects competently in a not reading-off-the-screen way.

Maybe you could get the people asking for bids to submit 30 second videos of themselves too?

<comment><USER12> I hate the movement toward video vetting processes. It invites discrimination into an area where it otherwise wouldn't exist. Communication skills are important, but for freelance work most communication will be via email, with occasional phone/Skype conversations.

<comment><USER11> As in racial discrimination? Yeah, I'm sure it will for some. But it's still really useful. For example, I'm sure the videos play a big role in YC applications, although probably not as a first criteria.

Plus it's not like the developers would be talking about something obscure, they would be talking about their core competencies.

<comment><USER12> Not just racial discrimination, but also discrimination based on one's manner of speaking, confidence, or charisma. Some people don't have English as a first language, undersell their abilities, or aren't comfortable on camera; does that mean they should not get a gig for which they are otherwise qualified? These are exactly the qualities that a video judges.

<comment><USER13> If I was using this service, I wouldn't be looking for film star charisma, but I would want good communication skills. If someone isn't a good communicator, I'd feel unhappy either hiring them for remote work, or doing remote work for them; there would be too many possibilities for misunderstanding.

<comment><USER14> There is often a big difference in competency level between written and verbal communication. If most project communication happens through email, how someone communicates on video isn't a good signal for how well they will communicate.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> I love this idea but it feels like these types of sites have become overly popular and I've noticed some problems. For context, I'm an entrepreneur with a budget, mock-ups, some angel interest, and I'm having a tough time finding senior development talent (mobile app & camera experience, some web talent). Anyway, if you solve some of these problems I'd get interested in a hurry.

-there's no upside in describing my project to an unknown community, If I describe it blandly nobody thinks it's interesting, if I describe it in detail I've given away our secret sauce.

-black box effect; it's unclear when/if I'll hear from the match-maker service.

-qualifications; while I value other people doing the pre-screens on developers I won't be comfortable unless they pass screens from technical people I know/trust but I seem overly picky and slow to decide if I have multiple interviews with all potential candidates.

For what it's worth, I think if you put more information about yourselves and your qualifications for screening devs it would help soothe these concerns.

</comment><comment><USER16> I'd suggest using DEBUG = False in the production environment. (Django debug view gives a lot of private informations..)

Exception Location: /base/data/home/apps/ecl-data- collection/1.350367717383270314/views.py in submit_programmer, line 28 Python Executable: /base/ Python Version: 2.5.2 Python Path: ['/base/python_runtime/python_dist/lib/python25.zip', '/base/python_runtime/python_lib/versions/third_party/django-1.2', '/base/python_runtime/python_dist/lib/python2.5/', '/base/python_runtime/python_dist/lib/python2.5/plat-linux2', '/base/python_runtime/python_dist/lib/python2.5/lib-tk', '/base/python_runtime/python_dist/lib/python2.5/lib-dynload', '/base/python_runtime/python_lib/versions/1', '/base/data/home/apps/ecl-data- collection/1.350367717383270314/']

<comment><USER17> Plus, when DEBUG = True, Django leaks memory.

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> I'd rename the github field to something more flexible -- at least let it sound like a BitBucket address would be just as relevant.

Also, how about a field for a LinkedIn profile?

</comment><comment><USER19> Interesting platform. For larger projects, I'm less likely to use a eLance/vWorker type service, and more likely to seek people out via their github/twitter/blog directly..

What is the revenue model here? Do you let me search people, and then I pay you a monthly fee, or do you take a cut?

The former is worthwhile to me; By requiring that users pay $50/month to search the devs, it keeps out a lot of the rifraff.

The later doesn't offer enough utility to be worth a cut of the entire price.

<comment><AUTHOR> We are thinking monthly fee. Your point on charging to search devs is exactly what we are going for. People won't sign up unless they are serious about building a project.

<comment><USER20> Monthly fee is nonsense. Charge a project cut.

<comment><USER21> I agree with this. A monthly fee only makes sense if I have an ongoing and steady need, but the presumption is that this is project work. Your charge needs to be project-based.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> I'd like to be able to select more than just one of the "looking for" options. Maybe I'm looking for freelance work in addition to a co-founder with an idea, for example

<comment><USER23> I second this.

</comment></comment><comment><USER24> Definitely agree with the problem that this site is trying to solve.

For most large projects it is impossible to spec out the idea accurately and what the client wants changes as the person starts to code. So I think that in many cases an hourly rate makes more sense for the coder and the project creator.

For medium sized projects around $2-10k maybe 20k, then project based work makes sense. Larger than this and a fixed fee is dangerous for the coder. Plus managing the timing of when the coder is paid is difficult.

And yes in most cases if the coder is great, a genuine coder will want an ongoing relationship with the employer.

Also I think it is possible to achieve the same result as your site by using vworker for example but only picking coders with VERY good feedback (the top 200 coders on the web site for example).

Another potential problem is how to you weed out all of the bad coders? If you get 10,000 applications from India, how will you know which guys are good and which are not good? That's probably the most important thing you can do for the employers.

Having said all of that, there definitely is a need, so good luck!

</comment><comment><USER25> I was not sure about the purpose of the website. On the one hand, it apparently wants to help people with projects find great coders. Great. On the other hand, it appears that it is also aiming to help you find (technical) cofounders. I don't think these are very related so I was a bit confused as to what the actual goal is.

Any thoughts?

</comment><comment><USER26> Relevant: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2539892>

</comment><comment><USER27> Why the monthly pricing? Job boards and freelance sites are traditionally pay- per-post for a reason. Unless you know something that the rest don't, you might want to stick to conventional wisdom here.

Just charge $100 to post a project.

<comment><USER28> I want a site that charges people to bid. This way you are sure to only bid if you are confident.

</comment></comment><comment><USER29> $2000 can be a great price or a very bad price. A project which has a budget of $250 is great if it only requires an hour of my time. A budget of $2000 is horrible if it requires 200 hours of my time.

</comment><comment><USER30> Curious question. How long have you been developing this?

<comment><AUTHOR> The site - about 3 weeks. The two landing pages up right now? About a day. Working on the design fixes now!

</comment></comment><comment><USER31> Please don't use "GitHub page". Github is not the only code hosting site out there and many people (like myself) don't use it.

<comment><AUTHOR> K - will rename to portfolio!

<comment><USER32> I think something implying: "Online Code Repository" would be better. Portfolio may mean, you want to look at the outputs while you want to check out the "code" or attitude here...

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER33> I'd suggest concentrating on the quality of work you will (hopefully) be offering, not the min project price. If I'm a potential employer I'm not thinking "Oh, God, I'm so desperate to find someone that will charge me at least $2K!". Yet, the price is the first thing you throw at my face.

</comment><comment><USER34> Firefox 4 on windows - The blob of text doesn't have a margin to right, making it stick to the scroll bar and hard to read.

Great idea, I might even try out, but first I need to get a portfolio going. Damn all those closed source projects and non participation in StackOverflow...

</comment><comment><USER20> There is another variable - the project size. $2000 is not much if asked to recreate facebook.

<comment><USER30> But it's enough of a barrier to keep out the really low projects.

Compared to people that ask you to program a Facebook clone in 5 days for $200, it's a lot better.

</comment></comment><comment><USER35> I'm always considering building a site like this myself, there's not law of nature that dictates that freelance sites need to be races to the bottom.

The pricing is a little ambiguous, is it free (after the pre-launch period) for coders?

<comment><USER36> _there's not law of nature that dictates that freelance sites need to be races to the bottom_

True, but setting a price floor doesn't automatically prevent the race from happening. $2000 for a 5 week project is still racing to the bottom.

</comment></comment><comment><USER37> So the text says you are 'a team of developers and designers who want to spend more time doing what we love,' but this appears to only be for developers. Are you targeting designers as well, or only coders?

<comment><AUTHOR> I think we will break that out in the future. We wanted to simplify for launch, but I think its a good point.

Please sign up! Just mention in the comments you are a designer.

</comment></comment><comment><USER38> I really like the idea and I think there is a great need from both developers and customers for this service. Have you thought at all about how to drive the demand side of this marketplace?

</comment><comment><USER39> Comment on the website: The main text goes off the bottom of the visible window and is obscured by the footer. This is on Chrome on Linux with the DPI settings increased a bit.

</comment><comment><USER16> MultiValueDictKeyError at /submit/programmer, then:

global name 'phone' is not defined

(I think you're trying to fix this right now.. right?)

<comment><AUTHOR> Yep - we broke the form - had to turn debug back on - fixed now! (debug is off)

<comment><USER40> For $2000 maybe you can hire someone to setup a staging environment? :)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER41> I found a small typo in the "Why We Are Doing This?" paragraph, "and have respect for the work we have [to] do."

</comment><comment><USER23> "We will not share your idea with anyone else, but we cannot guarantee that we will not work on something very similar."

That makes me almost 100% unlikely to use your site. I know that you're CYA here, but I would need to cover mine too...It seems a little stupid to tell you an idea if you say in big bold letters that although you might not share it, you may steal it or "work on something very similar."

</comment><comment><USER42> It will be looking good if you change the logo type and mark. Also please add an input field for Linkedin.

</comment><comment><USER43> I like the idea. I am looking for a tech cofounder and hopefully this helps me find one. Thanks.

</comment><comment><USER44> Broken, I got a Django debug page on appspot, contact me and I can give you details

</comment><comment><USER45> eHarmony for programmers and employers, nice! :)

</comment><comment><USER46> Make sure you validate your text fields.

</comment><comment><USER47> Renders funny under Firefox 4.

</comment><comment><USER48> There is a white border around your logo.

</comment><comment><USER49> pls disable the django debug , if you are going for public launch

<comment><AUTHOR> whoops - Thanks and fixed!

</comment></comment><comment><USER50>
        NameError at /submit/programmer
        global name 'phone' is not defined
        Request Method:	POST
        Request URL:	http://ecl-data-collection.appspot.com/submit/programmer
        Django Version:	1.2.5
        Exception Type:	NameError
        Exception Value:
        global name 'phone' is not defined
        Exception Location:	/base/data/home/apps/ecl-data-collection/1.350367717383270314/views.py in submit_programmer, line 28
        Python Executable:	/base/
        Python Version:	2.5.2
        Python Path:	['/base/python_runtime/python_dist/lib/python25.zip', '/base/python_runtime/python_lib/versions/third_party/django-1.2', '/base/python_runtime/python_dist/lib/python2.5/', '/base/python_runtime/python_dist/lib/python2.5/plat-linux2', '/base/python_runtime/python_dist/lib/python2.5/lib-tk', '/base/python_runtime/python_dist/lib/python2.5/lib-dynload', '/base/python_runtime/python_lib/versions/1', '/base/data/home/apps/ecl-data-collection/1.350367717383270314/']
        Server time:	Thu, 12 May 2011 17:32:17 +0000

<comment><USER2> Send him an email dude.</comment></comment>


Fully managed HashiCorp Consul Service generally available on Azure today - <AUTHOR> https://azure.microsoft.com/en-gb/blog/fully-managed-hashicorp-consul-service-generally-available-on-azure-today/ <comment><AUTHOR> This got me thinking. Consul is one of those infrastructure services that is generally deployed in a standard way, and most services that use it are relatively small, writing only a few configs and mainly using it to achieve HA. That makes hosting your own 3-5 node Consul cluster relatively expensive, simply because it requires 3-5 nodes.

Is there any interest here in a shared, multi-tenant, HA Consul cluster? (I know Consul doesn't support multi-tenant OOTB outside of Enterprise edition, but it should be possible to build a multi-tenant cluster by other means).

The idea would be that instead of paying to run your own 3-5 nodes, someone else would do it for you, but multiple tenants would use the same cluster - <USER2> you'd only pay something like $10/m instead of several times that.

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> I posted this before I'd looked at the pricing.. Dev is ~$14/month, which is pretty good, but production is "call me" pricing - I am _not_ a fan of that pricing model :/</comment>


The geography of American left-handedness - <AUTHOR> http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonkblog/wp/2015/09/22/the-surprising-geography-of-american-left-handedness/ <comment><USER2> My parents are right handed. I'm left handed. Had a pretty hard time in communist Poland too. It started with a kind of wrong diagnosis where the doctor told my parents that I'm both and that they could choose which side I'd use. So my grandparents lobbied for right. I started out left but it was hard with a fountain pen and since I had nobody to help me out with that my parents finally broke and told me to learn writing right.

My writing is still horrible. Sometimes even I can't read it. I became used to getting worse grades just for that. Same goes for art class. I was the only person in class to cut himself with paper scissors...

Thanks to the motivation of my gf and colleges, I've started learning to write with my left hand but it's not easy. It's like starting over again. My gf bought me scissors for lefties. What a beautiful feeling to cut paper with the "right" hand!

<comment><USER3> You are the 9% (if both parents are righties, then there is a 9% chance of a left handed baby).

What's interesting about left handedness is that even if both parents are lefties, the kid's chance is only 26%. Which is strangely low for something where there is some generic link.

If one parent is a lefty the chance drops to 19%, and if no parent is a lefty then it is 9%. The average over society is 10% of the population.

I almost don't wonder if generics isn't the primary reason that people are left handed, but generics can make you more likely to be a lefty (for whatever reason). That would somewhat explain the statistics.

<comment><USER4> my parent are right-handed too but my grandma is leftie. But it seems almost everybody else didn't have any leftie in the family that they're he's aware of. I find this odd, mostly because they says it's genetics so a lot of people cary left handed genes but it's hardly "primary"/"used" (I don't know the right word).

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> I grew up in southeast Oklahoma, as well as all my family.. Teachers spewing off about left handedness being evil is surprisingly common, though I didn't expect it to persist to today. Anecdotal accounts: my wife was told being left hand was evil (she was ambidextrous) and she was converted to fully right handed in 1st grade (1990s). My step-brother's kindergarten teacher constantly picked on him for being left handed and made him a mockery of the class before the superintendent intervened (1970s)... I recall one other account to do with my step-mom, but I can't remember the details of who it was.

So yea, idk what is up with Oklahoma, but they do NOT like lefties

<comment><USER6> > my wife was told being left hand was evil (she was ambidextrous) and she was > converted to fully right handed in 1st grade (1990s).

The 1990s? Is that a typo?

<comment><USER5> My wife is in her 20s, so yes, she was in first grade in the 90s heh

<comment><USER6> Sorry, I was not commenting on your wife's age (egads!)! I was surprised that such a practice continued as recently as the 1990s.

Wow; text can be a dangerous form of communication.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> I had years of mechanical drawing in high school, and it wasn't until my junior year that the teacher noticed I am left-handed. He started having me create drawings from the lower-right corner to the upper-left, while the right-handed kids drew from upper-left to lower-right. When I switched, I stopped having smudged drawings caused by dragging my hand across the completed parts of the drawings.

Little things.

</comment><comment><USER8> These days, you'd think you'd see the opposite where parents might force boys towards left-handedness.

If you're a right-hander who throws 90 MPH, the MLB scouts will take a look at you. If you're a left-hander who throws 90 MPH, you'll get drafted.

</comment><comment><USER9> For those that want to go straight to the results ==> [https://img.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/files/2015/09/...](https://img.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/files/2015/09/left- handedness.png)

</comment><comment><USER10> Forcing a child to write with their non-dominant hand can lead to all kinds of psychological trauma. Children can develop stutters, have a difficult time learning, and can experience profound secondary psychological effects.

Think about how much concentration it takes to write with your non-dominant hand. Now imagine being a child, being told you are somehow wrong _for being who and what you are_, and being forced to concentrate on working with your non-dominant hand while attempting to learn how to read, write, and do math.

This educator should be fired. She is clearly incompetent. Rather than supporting someone who already faces many challenges the right-handed world doens't face, she is actively attacking his psyche and making it more difficult for him to get an education.

</comment><comment><USER11> Those sneaky East Coast lefties !!!

sinister (adj.) early 15c., "prompted by malice or ill-will, intending to mislead," from Old French senestre, sinistre "contrary, false; unfavorable; to the left" (14c.), from Latin sinister "left, on the left side" (opposite of dexter)

[http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=sinister](http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=sinister)

<comment><USER12> it should be noted that the french word for 'left', 'gauche', also has a negative connotation when used in other contexts.

and 'maladroit' comes from 'droit', which means 'right' in french.

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> "The National Geographic data also show significant variation in rates of left-handedness by U.S. state, with higher rates in the Northeast and lower rates in the middle of the country."

The actual accompanying data only describes white people born after 1950 which could be evidence of too many researcher degrees of freedom. Additionally, the legend to the map is showing single percentage points of difference which hardly speaks to a robust finding. And given the fact that the data was collected in a non-scientific manner, that 1% between New Jersey and Missouri may be as easily attributed to ambidextrous people fibbing to be more unique, or perhaps for some reason National Geographic appeals to different kinds of people than the underlying population. At least show me an r value or something.

At any rate, the idea that since the Victorian era people have evolved to be less left-handed than in certain areas is absurd and without any scientific basis.

</comment><comment><USER14> That is a rather tiny difference in percentage, is it even statistically significant in relation to the samples?

<comment><USER15> If you're going to be asking questions like this, it's useful to play around with the basic formulas:

[https://upload.wikimedia.org/math/0/b/7/0b7491a8614d7808364b...](https://upload.wikimedia.org/math/0/b/7/0b7491a8614d7808364b5a3fec9e8033.png)

and in particular imagine what'll happen when you have, on average, 28000 responders per state and what kinds of differences you can expect to observe.

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> It's interesting that the findings in this article are an unintended benefit of a study on smell. Makes you wonder if any other studies have important data like this where data was simply discarded because it wasn't relevant to the initial hypothesis.

<comment><USER15> My reading of the article is that the data was extremely relevant to the original hypothesis, and was used to disprove it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> My father's left handed, I'm left handed, my sister's ambidextrous. A couple of her kids are left handed. There is certainly a genetic component.

My son's too young yet to have a dominant hand, but I make a point of putting things in his left hand. It's a lifestyle choice.

I grew up in Australia in the 70s and 80s, and I don't recall any prejudice against left-handers at the time. I never even really thought about the difficulties of using right-handed implements. It's just the way things were.

My father does tell a story, from the early 50s, where his mother had to forcibly intervene at his primary school, where they were trying to force him to use his left hand.

<comment><USER4> > but I make a point of putting things in his left hand.

Don't even do that. It can make he use his left hand because you're someway influencing he and if he start writing with non-dominant hand because this he may develop a lot of problems on brain.

> it's a lifestyle choice.

What?! You first said there is certainly a genetic component then it's a lifestyle choice? it isn't.

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> Here's something I've always found strange: every relationship I've ever had has been with a left-handed woman. I'm right-handed. It's not something I notice until after maybe a third date (as I usually am the one paying the bill before then). I don't watch for it. I certainly don't ask up front. And I don't give it any kind of weight. But it's still weird.

For whatever reason, I guess I just seem to click better with lefties.</comment>


Ordos, China: The World's Largest Ghost City (2014) - <AUTHOR> http://www.thebohemianblog.com/2014/02/welcome-to-ordos-world-largest-ghost-city-china.html <comment><USER2> isn't all this just a matter of time?

[https://www.bullionstar.com/blogs/koos-jansen/guest- post-5-c...](https://www.bullionstar.com/blogs/koos-jansen/guest- post-5-chinese-ghost-cities-came-alive/)

[http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2015/04/21/the-myth- of...](http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2015/04/21/the-myth-of-chinas- ghost-cities/)

<comment><USER3> This is probably the most relevant comment in the thread.

These ghost cities start that way, but they all end up being populated, and as soon as the flood gates open, they fill up fast. It just takes certain factors reaching critical mass to push them from the 'No one is living there' to 'Everyone is moving in and filling the entire place up'

Edit: Looks like it's already begun in Ordos as well. [http://tmagazine.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/03/06/ordos-china- to...](http://tmagazine.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/03/06/ordos-china-tourist- city/)

As usual, the initial settling is largely happening due to the Chinese government applying artificial levers to get people to move there, but that's a tactic they've used successfully on a lot of these "ghost towns"

<comment><USER4> Sound like China is planning ahead. Contrast this with the American problem of nothing new being built:

[http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-05-07/here-s- how...](http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-05-07/here-s-how-much-new- york-and-san-francisco-s-tight-housing-markets-are-hurting-the-economy)

<comment><USER5> That sounds fine, _if_ it all works out as planned.

China is about to become the most indebted nation. At the rapid pace they're accumulating debt, that should happen within the next few years. They've spent wildly to keep the building spree going; even now their real estate market is crashing, it has been falling for a year.

It begs a simple question: how many more people can China transition out of old China's poverty, and into the new China's middle class, before they run out of the ability to accumulate more debt to keep it all going (global consumers are tapped out, which has left China's manufacturing boom dead in the water, with their PMI contracting during a supposed non-recessionary period).

I fail to see how thinking ahead equates to taking on tens of trillions in new debt to fake economic growth. That sounds like they're baking up an economic recipe for future stagnation.

<comment><USER6> Excellent comment. China overdid their stimulus package in 2008 because of the need to keep the jobs coming. If would have been much better for them if they had used 2008 to slow the growth rhythm to something sustainable (4 to 5%). I think they are now headed to a very difficult transition, probably Japanese- style, because of so much debt.

<comment><USER7> I don't know for Chinese gov but I know for sure that Chinese families are not used to buy expensive things with money they don't have, so no, I don't agree: China as a whole has a lot of real money in the pockets.

<comment><USER6> This doesn't make any difference. The Japanese are even more frugal than the Chinese, that is why they have been able to support a deflationary economy for more than 20 years.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> _" The man led us through a courtyard, around the back of the school buildings, and suddenly there it was: the yard opened up into a wide, grassy playing field, flanked on one side by raised seating.

On the edge of the grass pitch – regularly mowed, yet never used – we were pointed towards a series of bronze statues. The figures showed children in traditional Chinese dress, frozen in play as the pink silk scarves tied about their necks flapped noisily in the wind.

'Fifty thousand Quai!' the man giggled, ecstatic, before explaining to us that the silk scarves were washed and replaced on a weekly basis."_

Apparently thousands of buildings are being maintained, cleaned, even silk scarves on statues getting washed -- for nobody to see.

Who is paying the maintenance workers' wages? The local government?

<comment><USER9> Not to mention the draw on electricity, which probably points back to some undisclosed amount of coal being burned in a power plant, somewhere nearby...

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> "Typical housing prices in Kangbashi have fallen from $1,100 to $470 per square foot, over the last five years alone."

Why are the prices so high?

Obviously nobody wants to pay $500k - $1 million for a 1,000 sqft. apartment in a Chinese ghost town.

<comment><USER8> That does seem insanely expensive. Maybe the price was quoted in $/m^2 and the unit was mistakenly switched to square feet at some point?

An alternative explanation is that the owners of these houses don't really want to sell them at all for some reason. Maybe keeping the money tied in unsold real estate is somehow preferable to having cash or other assets, due to e.g. government housing subsidies or something?

<comment><USER11> Nobody wants to take a loss on real estate in China, so they'll just wait until the market is better or they get compensated by the government when they eventually "redevelop" the land (those apartments only have an effective 10-20 year lifespan given quality of current construction methods). They don't take out big loans to buy these places, so there is no liquidity pressure. This is good and bad, no housing market crash but a huge zombie market of low turn over of second hand housing even in much more active first tier cities.

<comment> guard-of-terra "those apartments only have an effective 10-20 year lifespan"

Economical or political crisis hits, and they'll have to live in those apartments for 50+ years. We've been there already.

How do you build an apartment block these days anyway so it just lasts 20 years? With modern materials it's a bit unexpected.

It's a royally crappy idea anyway. Imagine selling one of those apartments to a person aged 40, who then promptly retires and have to live 20 years in a crumbling home or lose one and go homeless.

Apartment is supposed to be a solid investment.

<comment><USER12> "Modern materials" doesn't necessarily mean the most durable or well-suited to the task. It typically means cheap to produce (therefore readily available) and visually... acceptable.

<comment><USER11> The concrete China uses is pretty cheap actually, and the labor used to put it together is fairly unskilled. They have to build much thicker as a result, which leads to higher maintenance costs (which isn't done) and much quicker degradation.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> There have been other stories of "ghost towns" which eventually filled up with people. Perhaps this is just one of those. I always find it fascinating but I also note that a major disaster in a city like Beijing and there is already a bunch of places to house people post disaster. I don't know if anyone else thinks about it in that way but from a civil defense perspective it seems interesting to have "back up" cities waiting.

For other Person of Interest fans I found that Ordos was a ghost town interesting from that aspect of things as well.

<comment><USER14> It only makes sense if the backup cities are already owned by the government. If populating those cities post-disaster requires government appropriation of an entire city's worth of private real estate assets, the resulting financial and political instability could well dwarf anything wrought by the original disaster.

<comment><USER15> So you think that the appropriation of unused real estate is worse than whatever disaster led to the mass exodus of a population from a major city. Interesting, but that is not how I think.

<comment><USER14> You have badly misread my comment.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> It may seem weird to have almost-empty cities, but from a different perspective, a city like that is an amazing resource. If China ever has disaster or other crisis that creates lots of refugees (think Hurricane Katrina), they have a functioning city with lots of space ready for people to go to. Which is pretty awesome, when you think about it.

<comment><USER14> But these don't really make very good "backup" cities. The housing isn't owned by the government. It's owned by investors, often individuals, and it serves as a sink for money that has nowhere else to go. Real estate and construction investment of this kind is one of the big drivers of the Chinese economy. If the government confiscates property on the scale you're talking about -- even if it's in response to a disaster -- the bottom would drop out of their financial markets. Ain't gonna happen, even in a disaster.

<comment><USER11> Not to mention it's the upper middle class and rich who owns these places...the one class the government really doesn't want to piss off.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> There was a great documentary done on China's empty cities done by Dateline (in Australia): [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbDeS_mXMnM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbDeS_mXMnM)

</comment><comment><USER18> The author is on Patreon: [https://www.patreon.com/darmonrichter?ty=h](https://www.patreon.com/darmonrichter?ty=h)

</comment><comment><USER19> While watching that let's not forget that at least in Europe we also have "ghost cities".

<comment><USER20> I never heard of any... example?

<comment><USER21> I'm not European but:

[http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2102074/Spain- haunte...](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2102074/Spain-haunted- ghost-towns-built-boom-years-unemployment-tops-5million.html)

although things seem to be improving there:

[http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/350b9c8c-43f4-11e4-8abd-00144feabd...](http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/350b9c8c-43f4-11e4-8abd-00144feabdc0.html)

<comment><USER20> Thanks for the link.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> i don't understand the fascination with these ghost cities. they're just giant failed businesses.

imagine if they built vegas and nobody came. that's it, in a nutshell. it's not that weird.

<comment><USER23> Looks pretty weird to me

<comment><USER22> there are abandoned buildings/construction and complexes in almost every developing country i've ever been to. china just does it on a bigger scale.

<comment><USER24> Scale matters.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> Inner Mongolia is a region in China.</comment>


Has the rate of technological progress slowed in the past 50 years? - <AUTHOR> http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/robotics/robotics-software/singular-simplicity <comment><USER2> What do we mean by "technological progress"? Do we mean the quantitative improvement over previous generations of technology? Or do we mean qualitative improvements in our standard of living?

When you can eliminate the fear of hunger, automate mindless domestic chores and provide highly-accessible world-wide transportation, these are huge qualitative changes in our standard of living. But once you reach a certain level in Maslow's hierarchy of needs, big technological improvements don't make as big of a difference in your perceived quality of life.

Is it really surprising that storing 2000x more music on your iPod doesn't have the same impact on your standard of living as a cheap and reliable source of food?

<comment><USER3> Not to mention that the computer and internet revolution is, for the most part, entirely contained within the past 50 years... and IMHO the advent of mass computing and the internet is likely the most important leap in human technology for the past few _centuries_.

Think back to how life was in the mid 80s, and tell me we have not advanced by absolute leaps and bounds.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> One of the big problems with this article, and it also applies (albeit slightly differently) to the singularity folks, is this: You are comparing normal existence today with front edge people of the past. This is easy to accidentally do, because it is much easier to see the people who really jumped all over lighting, and telephone in the past when looking from now. Further it is much more common to write about those people than it is to write about the smiths, who not keeping up with the Joneses, didn't get the telephone for another decade. There were plenty of places in the us that only used outhouses into the 70's. Horses were used for plowing and whatnot into the 1950's (tractors having been around for decades at that point).

My point is, in 50 years we will be writing about the curve the internet took, and my children's kids will grow up believing everyone did this internet thing fluently. It will be hard to explain to them how a lot of my contemporaries will never quite get it. Much like I still can't quite wrap my head around the telephone troubles my grandfather's parents seemed to have.

I guess the point is, there really is not a good way of measuring impact of technology until we can look back and go, "woah, that was a big change!" or "what a dud!". Compare period write-ups of the future of zepplins or pneumatic tubes, to current reality.

<comment><USER5> Excellent point, the trouble with the singularity folks though is that their persistence that it will happen borders on religion. It is up to the proponents of a hard to verify claim to prove that claim to be true. The evidence so far is against them, the singularity hasn't happened (yet), and when it does it will be a simple matter of fact.

Until it does it is pure speculation and all that speculation and 'but it will' stuff isn't going to make it happen one microsecond sooner (assuming it eventually will happen, which I do not believe until I see it).

The singularity has been jokingly called 'the rapture of the nerds', and there is a lot of truth in that.

The rapture people from the 'scriptural' side of life tend to go off on all kinds of tangents about how 'the rest of us' do not get it and possibly will be left behind, the 'singularity' folks seem to have many of those traits in common.

This planet has existed for four billion years and change, the universe is currently estimated to be between 13.5 and 14 billion years old and it _seems_ all evidence points to the fact that the singularity has not happened anywhere in the universe, because according to that theory it would take over the entire universe as we know it at light speed.

The only loophole this leaves is that it has happened but so far away that the effects have not reached us yet.

<comment><USER4> There is the possibility that reaching singularity means something different than those folks think. For example, it could be that the singularity is real, however one of the consequences of ever increasing technological improvements is that more people have more power than ever before, and social structures and protections (e.g. law enforcement) are not able to keep up. Such a thing can result in the death of all of us at some point shortly before singularity, via accident or madman or similar.

Another possibility (assuming singularity) is that the after effects are far, far, different than anyone predicted, and it happens pretty frequently around the universe. This could easily explain why we haven't heard from super advanced species elsewhere in the universe.

Singularity effects could have reached us as many points in the past, perhaps starting our own quest towards singularity.

Or, as you say, it could just be that singularity won't happen. (I am inclined to agree with this myself, the above disagreement is just an exercise to keep my mind open.)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Cellphones are making a MAJOR impact on the lives of billions of people in the third world right now, and no-one's mentioned them so far. They were invented recently, and disruptive technologies and cultural artifacts based on cheap mobiles are coming thick and fast.

In some ways, poverty-stricken folks in Bangladesh are leaving us fat Westerners behind.

</comment><comment><USER7> This article is fundamentally flawed in judging technological progress by its impact on "everyday life". Many of the advancements over the last 50 years have been of military or industrial application. Does this mean that they are lesser advances? Where is the cruise missile? GPS system?

Even important everyday items are missing, like cell phones, and cheap air travel. I own a phone that will let me call (almost) anyone in the world form (almost) anywhere in the world, while showing me where I am to the nearest 15 meters on a map composed of images from SPACE. I can travel 3,000 miles in half of a day for a weeks worth of rent. People change cities like they used to change wardrobes.

Obviously these are just a couple of things, and wouldn't fundamentally change his argument, but I haven't spent much time thinking of them. Asking other people's opinions of changes to "everyday life" would have been helpful, as there seems to be a serious personal bias in the article.

</comment><comment><USER8> No, it hasn't been slowing. The author fails to see that we know more about astronomy in the last 2 years than the previous 10. More has been discovered about the brain in the last ~15 years than people knew in the last 100,000 years. Throw in chemistry, nanoscale fabrication, materials science, etc. At every level of society we have been impacted by the advancements that are occurring around us daily. People who have spent their entire lives thinking linearly have a hard time getting a sense of how much things have changed.

<comment><USER9> That increase in knowledge has been mainly quantatative, not qualatative. Sure, we know know exactly which stars are in quadrant x27b or where dopaminergic neurons connect in the limbic system. But that doesn't solve practical problems that improve people's lives, the way telephones and electricity did.

Quick: Name one practical, day to day benefit of the Human Genome Project...

<comment><USER10> DNA forensics?

<comment><USER9> DNA forensics uses technology that predates the human genome project. There are some minor (but significant) benefits to "DNA analysis" as a larger category.

My point is that the Human Genome Project was sold as an exponential-style technology that would revolutionize disease research within a couple of years- But now it's been completed for a long time already and the benefits have been slight (Though I still wholeheartedly support the project despite this- Minor improvements are valuable, too)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Great article! I don't buy the 'singularity' idea either.

It makes for fantastic science fiction but in the real world all resources are finite and every technology we've come up with so far has had to deal with the harsh realities of the thermodynamic laws and regular materials science. There is plenty of room at the bottom, indeed, but the bottom is not 'bottomless', and the engineering problems are formidable.

Sure, there is progress, and plenty of it. But to think that that progress is 'easy' or 'accelerating' belies the enormous amount of hard work that goes in to achieving it.

And with every step every next one becomes harder, the laws of diminishing returns.

I think that our illusion of ever accelerating progress has more to do with the fact that ever more people are 'knowledge workers' and 'scientists' than anything else, the greater a fraction of our society that advances our knowledge the faster we will move forward in this respect.

The 'uploaders' are essentially practicing wishful thinking about that great question plenty of people have had to deal with in the past: How to avoid dying.

Unfortunately I don't think any of the people alive today is going to be able to accomplish that feat, statistics is overwhelmingly against it, everybody that ever lived in the past has died before the ripe old age of 150 of one cause or another. And so will everybody living today.

If you want to be immortal your best bet is probably to write a book, compose a piece of music or make a timeless movie.

I'm not sure if blogging counts :)

And as for the singularity, there are several other scenarios, some plausible, some implausible:

\- a plateau of knowledge after which any future gains in knowledge will come ever slower, in a world like that new scientific findings would be real headline news instead of the science section on page 24

\- a 'wall', beyond which we will not be able to go without knowledge 'behind' the wall (physics may be up against that, or maybe not but if there is something beyond quantum may never become a settled question)

<comment><AUTHOR> I think we still have a lot of room for progress, but I think it's going to take another leap in technological innovation for that to happen (there's a rapidly approaching point where we just won't be able to make a silicon-based processor any faster).

We'll also, of course, keep finding new applications for current technology, but that's unlikely to be a paradigm-shifter.

I guess you could say that the Internet has done that though to some extent, taking what was basically a medium for exchanging scientific data and turning it into a medium that really connects people on a never-before-seen scale. But I definitely agree with the article in that it is ridiculous to assume that there is some sort of exponential path for technological progress that society is just going to somehow follow. We're really gonna have to work for every step we take

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> Ugh, we've been through this before. Significant technological innovations take 30 years to recognize as significant so there's always a bias when looking at the recent past. It's a measurement artifact, not reality.

</comment><comment><USER12> Absolutely:

<http://yarchive.net/physics/effete.html></comment>


Can't Change Your Leader? Change How You Follow - <AUTHOR> http://blogs.hbr.org/cs/2010/10/cant_change_your_leader_change.html

<comment><USER2> _Research conducted worldwide shows that leadership contributes to 70% of corporate atmosphere, while corporate atmosphere contributes to 30% of corporate performance. Therefore, leadership can exert direct influence on 21% of corporate performance._

Reading only the top 4% of that article convinced me that whatever was going to follow it was 100% bullshit.

<comment><USER3> Even more baffling is the notion that leadership only influences a company through "atmosphere".

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> _In Chinese companies, 19.1% of the managers are found to be high-performance leaders, 9.8% inspiring leaders, 13.4% leaders who create no obvious value, and 57.7% leaders who actually discourage their employees. That is to say, 70% of the managers either don't help or discourage their people._

I'm curious how American companies would fare.</comment>


Ask HN: What's the best way to notify our customers of a vulnerability? - <AUTHOR> What's the best way to do this for downloadable software? I see a lot of companies do it wrong and receive harsh (but valid) criticism on this site. The issue is already fixed, but customers need to install the new version.<p>Also, what do we need to be aware of legally? Do we need to hire a lawyer to review the email we're planning to send? <comment><USER2> If you collect emails, than send an email to let users know of possible vulnerabilities (or incorporate a message into the software itself -- disable functionality until update). Have a general template written up for different scenarios and revise as necessary.

Don't be afraid to reimburse customers for lost time if necessary, such as crediting their accounts. It is the least you can do. My webhost company was out a week ago due to a blackout where it is located, and email was down for a day. No mention of reimbursement and many customers were very upset. While I am a loyal customer, I do have clients who use email, so they were emailing me. It probably made their business suffer for a day or two, as they were unable to reply to emails. There is no monetary value that can even make up for this, but to offer some incentive, like a monetary deduction of $5 - $20 in the bill is showing intention that you are truly sorry for what happened. Don't write that you will do this but analyze and understand the situation at- hand as every scenario is different.

You can use a generic Terms of Service generated to know your direction, but I suggest personally writing out your Terms of Service in plain English that is easily understandable and get someone to read it. If there is something they don't understand, revise it. Clearly state that there may be bugs and vulnerabilities in the software, but guarantee that you do your best to encrypt and secure data. For example, before anything gets inputted into a database, I encrypt it.

I also use a third-party like Stripe for processing payments and I store very limited data about a users credit card (such as expiration date). In this case, Stripe is technically responsible for hacks to their own data system, as I personally cannot be held responsible for what happens, and I make this known in my Terms.

As for getting a lawyer, there are certain rights you already have as an LLC or business ( [http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/llc- basics-30163.html](http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/llc- basics-30163.html) ), if you choose to register ($50 to register in my state), but I highly-highly recommend that you do your best to keep your PERSONAL assets and your BUSINESS assets completely separated (including bank accounts, investments, or even vacations). Come tax time, it is best you do this anyway. But you could try and find a lawyer who might be affordable and give you a good deal in the event that something does happen.

So long as you are not knowingly ripping off your customers or committing illegal activities and you are doing all you can to protect your customer data, you should be fine. If you believe that something might or could go dangerously wrong, such as you are taking in million dollar businesses that are your customers, and you need to protect that data with your life, than you might want to purchase some type of insurance for your [software] business. In the event that you get sued or something goes wrong, some of these insurance companies will look into the case and provide you with money for lawyers, provide lawyers, or they may even provide additional services like writing a Terms of Service for your business.

Check out these links which may guide you in the right direction:

[https://it.insureon.com/small-business-insurance/general- lia...](https://it.insureon.com/small-business-insurance/general-liability/93)

[https://www.trustedchoice.com/business-insurance/industry- ty...](https://www.trustedchoice.com/business-insurance/industry- types/software/)

[http://www.techinsurance.com/products/](http://www.techinsurance.com/products/)

[http://www.techinsurance.com/products/verticals/programming-...](http://www.techinsurance.com/products/verticals/programming- and-application-developers/)

[http://www.techinsurance.com/web-business- insurance/](http://www.techinsurance.com/web-business-insurance/)

[https://www.thehartford.com/business-insurance/computer- web-...](https://www.thehartford.com/business-insurance/computer-web-it)</comment>


Which Is Better, Matlab or Octave? - <AUTHOR> https://www.quora.com/Which-is-better-MATLAB-or-Octave?share=1 <comment><USER2> Matlab. But Octave is free.</comment>


Generation Wuss - <AUTHOR> http://www.vanityfair.fr/culture/livre/articles/generation-wuss-by-bret-easton-ellis/15837

<comment><USER2> This article struck a chord with me (a young millennial). I spent a lot of my childhood doing camping and other outdoor activities, and in the past six years or so turned to programing. In both situations, problem-solving is much more valued than abstract senses of justice or "how things should be". If you firewood is wet, it accomplishes absolutely nothing to complain about how you're being victimized by nature—you need to get over it and figure something out. And I'm sure we're all acutely aware of how it matters not one bit whether your software "deserves" to have a bug or not; you're still stuck fixing it.

Far too many of my peers expect natural talent to yield success, expect effort to count more than results, expect life to be overwhelmingly fun, expect to be carefully nurtured until they're completely comfortable with the problem at hand. I had a friend who was amazed that boys didn't come flocking to her (despite her aloofness) since she was "beautiful like a Disney princess" and "guys enjoy the chase". Another thought that her years of classical violin training entitled her to win an American fiddling competition...despite not being nearly as comfortable with the style as the other competitors.

There's a lot to be commended about my generation's focus on social justice and equality. But hopes and dreams about the future shouldn't come at the cost of being unable to grapple with the reality of the present.

</comment><comment><USER3> Let me get this straight: the 46 year old author started dating a 23 year old and then concludes that millennial culture is immature? That's utterly asinine.

If the author is "exasperated by how him and his friends [...] deal with the world" perhaps he should grow up and date somebody his own age.

<comment><USER2> That's a bit _ad hominem,_ don't you think? I thought the author made good points regardless of his personal circumstances.

[Disclaimer: Didn't downvote you]

<comment><USER3> The article makes makes broad sweeping claims (unsubstantiated, needless to say) about a generation (neurotic/narcissistic/wussy) with a linkbait title "generation wuss". The article isn't even clever or insightful. We've heard the horror of "participation trophies" a thousand times before. Yawn.

In the article he also manages to make light of bullying. He puts cyber- bullying in scare quotes (as if it isn't a real thing) and by talking about people who "feel" bullied. As if the emotional distress people feel isn't the essence of being bullied. He then pokes fun at somebody who committed suicide for being a wuss who can't handle a prank. That's such a vile thing to do.

Then the article tries to deflect criticism by proclaiming that people who roll their eyes at his generational generalizations simply can't stand to hear the truth ("anyone with a snarky opinion [...] labeled as a douche -- case closed").

The author has been talking about this "Generation Wuss" things for years now ([https://twitter.com/BretEastonEllis/status/26825707812724736...](https://twitter.com/BretEastonEllis/status/268257078127247361)). The article is just a longer version of that tweet. Juvenile and utterly without substance.

<comment><USER4> The fact that you're worried about his being unimpressed with modern non- problems like "cyber bullying" kind of proves the point of the article, whether or not you're a member of generation weak sauce.

<comment><USER5> Laughing at cyberbullying because it happens online is as dumb as laughing about school bullying because it happens in school, an environment which most adults will agree is ridiculous.

That doesn't mean there aren't a few good points in there, but for someone who claims to abhor narcissism, this person sure likes to talk about themselves and their achievements a lot.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> I completely agree, as a member of the generation in question. Most of my peers disgust me, and I'm not above these issues myself - but I try very hard to fix it.

Fortunately, life has kicked my ass soon enough to wake me up, and my parents did no do a bad job at it either.

</comment><comment><USER7> > I never pretended to be an expert on Millenials and my harmless tweeting > about them was solely based on personal observation with the reactions to > the tweets predictably running along generational lines.

"I intentionally stirred shit and called a generation too sensitive, and some of them got upset by it - which just proved my point!"</comment>


Websites Built with Kohana PHP - <AUTHOR> http://www.mostinspired.com/blog/2009/10/09/10-websites-built-with-kohana/

<comment><AUTHOR> As a long time Kohana user, it really does make working with PHP much cleaner and faster. It takes the best architectural aspects of CI and adds some excellent functionality (full OOP, ORM, cascading filesystem, Events, Auth module).

The Kohana framework is actually at a critical turning point. Check <http://dev.kohanaphp.com/> for more information. The version 2.x codebase has been optimized in the 2.4 release (cleaned up libraries, enhanced DB library and ORM). The new 3.x codebase was completely rewritten from the ground up by the BDFL and is currently managed on GitHub (<http://github.com/kohana>). 3.x was just released (<http://forum.kohanaphp.com/comments.php?DiscussionID=3479>) and supports the HMVC design pattern and is shaping up to be an amazing framework. A new website for Kohana for both 2.x and 3.x (aka KO3) is close to being released along with complete docs for 3.x.

For those interested in a quick preview of the code: KO3 API (<http://www.kerkness.ca/ko3/index.php/guide/api>) KO3 User Guide - Work In Progress (<http://www.kerkness.ca/ko3/index.php/guide>)

<comment><USER2> Thanks for the info.

How stable is Kohana? I'm building a project with PHP/CI right now, because I need something boring and stable that's cross-platform and easily installed by enterprise users (when I'm hosting I'd rather use RuPy).

Edit: That's considering it's just undergone a major transformation; I mean more in general and with regard to future direction.

<comment><AUTHOR> The 2.4 version that is due to be released shortly is an updated version of the 2.3 branch which is stable. The 3.x is a complete rewrite is likely to be less stable. I haven't used 3.x for a project yet, but it does look interesting.

Here is a good discussion on the subject: [http://forum.kohanaphp.com/comments.php?DiscussionID=3477...](http://forum.kohanaphp.com/comments.php?DiscussionID=3477&page=1#Item_5)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> I think some _balanced_ discussion about Kohana v. CodeIgniter would be helpful on HN.

I haven't followed the debate, but I do find it interesting that the Kohana article on Wikipedia is being evaluated for possible deletion because all (nearly all?) contributors to its K v. CI debate are "developers of K" according to the WP discussion page: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Kohana_\(web_framework\))

<comment><AUTHOR> The comparison between the frameworks was more relevant at the initial fork, when Kohana was simply a PHP5 port of CI with a additional functionality. However, at this point in time, the code bases have diverged to the point where no more CI code currently exists in Kohana. Some of the underlying architectural concepts are still shared between CI and Kohana 2.x, but Kohana 3.x has diverged even further.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> What actual information does this provide? A beautiful UI is orthogonal to the web framework in use. Let's see some code.

<comment><USER5> That really wasn't the purpose of the article. I was trying to raise the awareness and interest in Kohana by showcasing some websites that are built in Kohana.

When I first mention that I use Kohana or am going to use Kohana on a project, the first question is usually do you have any examples of sites built with it? So I was answering that question by blog post that hopefully others would find useful too.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> Kohana looks promising, never heard of it before.

From Wikipedia: "The principal reason for the fork was to create a more community-based web application framework as many users were frustrated with CodeIgniter's lack of bug fixes and inclusion of new features requested by the community."

<comment><USER7> Kohana is a very nice project when you are forced to use PHP to develop a webapp, it's quite simple to use and fast.

The community forums are active and friendly, the only lack I saw (some time ago) was the documentation, but the code is very clean and well documented with concise and clean comments.

I used it right before my complete switch to RoR, I was happy with it, but php is still the big poorly designed language-mess which has always been.

<comment><USER8> ...though Kohana 'suggests' some good practices, it doesn't force anything. So its still possible to work on a project where a lot of the 'wtf' php allows to happen still come up, albeit just inside a more sensible way of organizing things. The good intentions of your fellow developer still dictate the wtfs- per-minute..

<comment><USER5> This is not a issue isolated to Kohana and PHP, its affects all languages and frameworks.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Yay for Kohana on Hacker News!

</comment><comment><USER10> I personally like FlourishLib - simple, no-brainer, doesn't come into your coding style. The programmer of that framework does excellent support as all.

<comment><USER11> Indeed, Will does a great job and is very passionate. Have met him on a couple of occasions.

Having said that, Flourish isn't (and isn't trying to be) a framework like CI or Kohana.</comment></comment>


Firefox Project Snappy - to eradicate pauses and improve responsiveness - <AUTHOR> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Performance/Snappy

<comment><AUTHOR> It seems Firefox 13 will be the first release to contain many of their efforts.

I've been reading up on it over here:

<http://blog.mozilla.com/tglek/2012/03/16/snappy-march-15th/></comment>


Facebook Exec: We Got Trump Elected, and We'll Do It Again - <AUTHOR> https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/01/facebook-memo-trump-2020-andrew-bosworth <comment><USER2> While it might feel nice to give Facebook all the credit(/blame) it's just way too simple of a explanation. Ads have been effective for a long time regardless of the type of media. There were complaints about running presidential campaign ads during I Love Lucy in the 1950's.

Whenever I see one of these blame Facebook articles, I always think of what it's saying about the American public. If a significant number of people think of Facebook as a reputable source of truth, there really isn't much hope for the nation. Without an educated population capable of critical thinking there can't be a real democracy (or even a representative democracy).

</comment><comment><USER3> > "As tempting as it is to use the tools available to us to change the > outcome, I am confident we must never do that or we will become that which > we fear."

> "If we limit what information people have access to and what they can say > then we have no democracy at all," Bosworth wrote.

You manipulate the information people have access to _every day_ as a core feature of your business! You started using those tools and became a curator of what information people receive many years ago when you decided to use your propriety, hidden algorithm to filter and order what people see. If you actually believe in taking an idealistic "maximum free speech" approach, you would return to a simple chronological ordering.

~sigh~

I usually don't like wasting energy worrying about past decisions. Investing time and energy on regrets and blame is usually a waste of resources. _However_... the one thing in my past that I really do regret is _introducing this asshole to computers and teaching him to program._ Bosworth! Instead of undermining democracy and creating a surveillance capitalist dystopia, could we go back to writing silly graphics hacks in QBasic?

</comment><comment><USER4> (note that this article dates from January 2020, although there doesn't appear to have been much discussion of the news previously on HN)</comment>


Google Petition to Reform ECPA: Tell the Government to Get a Warrant - <AUTHOR> https://takeaction.withgoogle.com/white-house-petition

<comment><USER2> The original email as pdf:

[https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bz6opf7oE6B7NGxaR1JzcHIzaXM...](https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bz6opf7oE6B7NGxaR1JzcHIzaXM/edit?usp=sharing)</comment>


Some US musicians may soon be able to reclaim copyrights from their labels - <AUTHOR> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/16/arts/music/springsteen-and-others-soon-eligible-to-recover-song-rights.html

<comment><AUTHOR> For music startups, this could make music licensing even more of a mess than it already is. Imagine negotiating separately with every artist in your catalog. I know that to some extent separate negotiations already happen for the biggest artists, but further disaggregation of the rights can only make it worse.

Maybe over the next 35 years, everyone will reclaim their copyright, form a syndicate, and collectively license them on reasonable and flexible terms! I can dream, right?

<comment><USER2> There's no reason the individual artists can't sign up with ASCAP, BMI, Harry Fox, etc. (or some new similar agency) and I would expect most of them to do that (many already have, of course). The exception would be, as you say, the very biggest artists. Most small to mid-level artists aren't going to want to hassle with (or pay for) individual negotiation any more than the your music startup will.</comment></comment>


Scientist at Work - Edward O. Wilson - <AUTHOR> http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/15/science/15wils.html?em&ex=1216440000&en=626b5e1816f9b318&ei=5070

<comment><USER2> I remember getting into an argument with a sociology professor (in hindsight, probably a Marxist) who stated that there are no instinctual behaviors. I gave a simple example--babies suckling--that just angered him more.

Obviously, all behavior is partly shaped by instinct. But the connection is so non-deterministic that it's pretty easy to completely deny it. Sometimes the dog goes to his foodbowl at 2:00, sometimes at 2:10. Or, sometimes he smacks his lips, sometimes not. Ergo, the dog does not have an instintual urge to eat. At least not in a particular way. If nothing else, you could probably teach a dog, BF Skinner-like, to have anorexia nervosa. Behavior _can be engineered_. No doubt about it.

The problem, of course, is that personality qualities are partly inherited just like intelligence. This is problematic for a couple reasons:

1\. The practice of measuring intelligence is well-developed and the results have been carefully studied. This is not the case with vague behaviors like "hardworkingness".

2\. Traditionally, when coming up with excuses for why different groups have different levels of intelligence, other types of behavior are brought up: "Those Asian students spend all their time studying. Of course they succeed." This suggests that studiousness is the prescription for fixing bad students. But, in fact, that very studiousness is largely shaped by genetics. Sociobiology kills off the last fantasies of Marxism.

<comment><USER3> Uh, no.

May I recommend "Guns, Germs, and Steel" to you.

That book effectively _destroys_ any idea that studiousness, or intelligence, at the group level (like your example of "Asians", whatever the hell "Asians" means), has _anything_ to do with genetics.

<comment><USER2> _has anything to do with genetics_

Well, I would never say genetics is 100 percent responsible for any products of the mind. You seem to think that genetics is zero percent responsible. This is an untenable position, and not one Jared Diamond would hold either, at least not when he was researching the importance of testicle sizes of different races [1]. (You have to actually read it to get a laugh. Anyone have a nature login?)

I am so tired of Jared Diamond. It seems like there's always some sheister, Stephen Jay Gould, or Diamond, or _somebody_ who propagandizes effectively enough to come up every time a subject is raised.

[1] [http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v320/n6062/abs/320488a0...](http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v320/n6062/abs/320488a0.html)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Scientists have been in favor of group selection since the late 1800s. I don't see what's new about this at all. Here's a quote from 1902 that implies the existence of group selection:

"Competition [...] is limited among animals to exception periods. [...] Better conditions are created by the elimation of competition by means of mutual aid and mutual support. [...] "Don't Compete" -- competition is always injurious to the species, and you have plenty of resources to avoid it!" That is the tendency of nature, not always realized in full, but always present. That is the watchword which comes to us from the bush, the forest, the river, the ocean. "Therefore combine -- practice mutual aid!" That is what nature teaches us." -- Pter Kropotkin, Mutual Aid

</comment><comment><USER5> Related: <http://isteve.blogspot.com/2008/07/save-ants.html></comment>


Economics Teaches Us Not To Fret - <AUTHOR> http://mises.org/daily/2852

<comment><USER2> He forgets that feeling bad about previous mistakes helps you remember them and improves future decision-making. Someone who could immediately put previous bad choices out of their mind once they've made a decision probably wouldn't learn much.

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> Incidently, the term _TANSTAAFL_ , or _There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch_ was an invention of science fiction writer, Robert A. Heinlein in _The Moon is a Harsh Mistress_.

<comment><USER3> He helped popularize it, but he did not create it.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanstaafl>

<comment><AUTHOR> I stand corrected.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Economics seems to be the only officially recognized form of utopianism.

<comment><AUTHOR> I thought economics is often regarded as a _dismal_ science.

<comment><USER5> No; my understanding it that that just refers to one of the first schools, the Manchester School, which thought that improving the income of the lower class would just result in their having more children and the families lot in life not improving at all.

We now know that's totally false (look at how this is playing out in much of the Third World).</comment></comment></comment>


Apply HN: AJ's American Garage – The Ghost Door (Device) - <AUTHOR> Video Introduction, Timeline Estimate, and Transcript available here:
http://www.ajsamericangarage.com
I call it The Ghost Door. It is a device to open and close various types of hinged doors and latch them closed using undisclosed sensor systems. I have the drawings and design ready to begin prototyping, and by dedicating myself full-time to learning and implementing small scale tech like Arduino/Pi/Intel/etc materials, it's about working to bring an idea to functional concept. It helps to have a programming background of sorts, and the skills to research the right guides to do small time electronics work like soldering and working through issues. I can totally build this thing in my garage if I had the time and money, at least to the point of working with some engineers to optimize it for mass production.
What's great about the product from an investment and revenue standpoint is that it works in both "retro-fit" and "brand new" applications. It should be able to be mounted and used on interior doors for the mobility impaired or for convenience.
In conjunction with manufacturers, the design and technology can also be incorporated into industrial / commercial / medical door applications as a competitor to existing products. As of now, it's not quite an 'internet of things' device — thinking of security here — but the potential to be such a device is built-in to the concept's scope. The device has one primary goal: To open and close doors in a novel manner that will be a profitable product. <comment><AUTHOR> For those who may not click the link, I would like to note that I performed an ~8 minute presentation in my garage to get a more personal introduction to me as a potential founder. I've looked through quite a few entries thus far and pretty sure it's a unique approach, at least it's a custom video for this opportunity. It's not terrible if you don't mind thought out, rehearsed pitches!

</comment><comment><USER2> How does it work? Why would someone want it?

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for asking, I'll go to it:

As for its operation: it's an attachment that fits to an existing door and uses motors to open it in a new way. The device is designed to have multiple input mechanisms, such as auditory (hand claps), light, or vibration (taps), and run on basic AA battery technology. In an industrial setting it could be keyed to RFID or other mechanisms to work as the mechanical assist to open/close a door with larger power and design optimization.

As for who would want it, there is a 'basic' version intended for senior citizens and pet owners, up to a 'connected' variant which can have all sorts of activation programming conditions. Essentially if one wants a door to open by itself, as though a ghost was doing it for them, this is the mechanism for that convenience.

<comment><USER3> This might be a cool gimmick to have at high end luxury hotels eg.) the Conrad, Ritz, four seasons that when your room key RFID is tapped instead of having to manually open your door it opens for you.

I personally see it as a Luxury Gimmick but im sure there are other more essential markets for it

Make sure you get some kind of Patent as the patent is where the value will be

<comment><AUTHOR> Thank you very much for the note; yes the patent process is step one. I built a timeline graphic that's in the linked site.

I was also thinking like industrial or medical applications, so that doors would be hands free. As a home device, I'd like to make a really simple version - think The Clapper for lights [1] - that could help elderly or mobility impaired people in their own homes. I've had a great introduction with a Patent Attorney who will assist crafting a broad, useful patent application, which is exiting in its own right!

[1] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Clapper](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Clapper)</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: Best resources to get acquainted with the startup ecosystem in NYC? - <AUTHOR> What resources would the HN community recommend to best acquaint oneself with the startup scene in New York City? What are the best avenues to meet and connect with entrepreneurs for someone who is brand new to the area? <comment><USER2> A couple of things that might help you get started:

New York Tech Meetup (now the New York Tech Alliance) - [https://nytm.org/](https://nytm.org/) (meetups happen monthly; events happen regularly, check the site for the schedule)

Co-working spaces in NYC - there are new ones popping up (and shutting down) all the time throughout different parts of the city. Probably easiest to search for co-working spaces near where you live. I haven't been to any in awhile, but a Google search should get you a decent list.

New York Tech Week - [http://techweek.com/newyork- schedule/](http://techweek.com/newyork-schedule/) (this happens in the fall, but you can still get an idea of popular companies and people from the speaker list. More of an information source.)

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks! These are all very useful.</comment></comment>


What Shakespeare's Plays Sounded Like with Their Original English Accent - <AUTHOR> http://twentytwowords.com/performing-shakespeares-plays-with-their-original-english-accent/ <comment><USER2> Perhaps link directly to the (2011) video rather than this contentless blog post with an embed:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPlpphT7n9s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPlpphT7n9s)</comment>


Millennials are playing it safe, and that makes them bad investors - <AUTHOR> http://www.vox.com/2014/5/29/5758960/millennials-are-playing-it-safe-and-that-makes-them-bad-investors

<comment><USER2> The last two paragraphs sum it up pretty damn well. I don't trust my money in any investor's hands right now, especially after witnessing my parents lose almost everything, so it will take me some time to re-invest in the market. I also believe a lot of Millennials are looking at their current cost of living, student loans, and low paying jobs to be another issue.

</comment><comment><USER3> I can't vouch for anyone else, but I've invested my time and energy in a few different business ideas, one of which might pan out, two of which haven't.

If you're doing that sort of thing, having liquid funds and cash is a hell of a lot more useful than pieces of paper that might suddenly go up in smoke when you need them.

I'm not claiming it is ideal, but it does explain some things.

Also, there's not really a compelling vision of the future to invest in right now, right? Everything's ruined forever, and getting worse--or so it seems.</comment>


Why I Think Elm Is the Future of Front End Development - <AUTHOR> https://medium.com/@rgoomar/why-i-think-elm-is-the-future-of-front-end-development-21e9b091fa05#.3nop9b3rb <comment><USER2> You just have to code every single user interaction and effect from scratch in every project unless you want to deal with ports or impurity.

Integration of different elm subcomponents is also a pain in the ass because it doesn't have any mechanism to agomerate existing functionality which modifies the UI.

Unless it solves those problems and includes functional objects and compile time macros to transform parts of the code it won't get practical any time soon.

</comment><comment><USER3> With massive backing behind Angular and React from giants like Google and Facebook I doubt Elm will make a dent in overall adoption. There are many excellent functional transpile to JS languages out there (Clojurescript is my favourite) but industry wants Javascript. Furthermore, a lot of front-end JS is coupled with back-end Node.js so any new front-end language will need to integrate well with Node.js which is the new Enterprise hotness.

<comment><AUTHOR> I agree. It isn't going to have a large dent in adoption. Bigger companies won't just jump on board and will use Angular and React due to popularity and it is probably easier to hire engineers with experience in one or the other. But, I think the adoption of Elm for newer projects can have a significant impact.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> What about the promise of web assembly? I'd be surprised if the dominant front end language used 10 years from now has already been invented.

</comment><comment><USER5> I have read that integrating with Javascript isn't as trivial, like other non- Elm libraries. Do you have any thoughts on this?

<comment><AUTHOR> It isn't that hard. You just have to communicate with the Elm ports library appropriately. See this for more information: [https://guide.elm- lang.org/interop/javascript.html](https://guide.elm- lang.org/interop/javascript.html)</comment></comment>