No Rational System Would Value Tesla at $100B - <AUTHOR> https://jacobinmag.com/2020/01/tesla-stock-price-elon-musk-financialization-capital <comment><USER2> So, according to the author, a PhD in Sociology, Elon Musk is a "Snake Oil Salesman" and the "irrational" share price of TSLA is case for "democratizing the allocation of wealth" or as she puts it "socializing finance". Umm, no, that's not how it works in a free market and free society. People can do whatever they please with their own dollars, including risking them on a stock.

<comment><USER3> >Umm, no, that's not how it works in a free market and free society.

I believe she is advocating moving away from (though to what degree I am unsure) a free market and free society.

<comment><USER4> > I believe she is advocating moving away from (though to what degree I am > unsure) a free market and free society.

The whole publication advertises itself as"a leading voice of the American left, offering socialist perspectives on politics, economics, and culture." It's a blog dedicated to publish socialist/communist rethoric. It's no surprise an article published through it is dedicated to defend the idea that they have the right to dictate how someone else's money should be spent.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> I agree about the headline, but the article doesn't show it, or even plausibly point to it: it's just an assertion.

The underlying question about p/e would have been more interesting. And, she didn't seem to understand the economics of the battery relationship with panasonic

</comment><comment><USER6> Although I agree with the underlying assertion, namely that TSLA is over valued, the author somehow manages to avoid making a single credible argument in the entire article. I find it somehow ironic that she decries investors as being, "not interested in the things we need for long-term development" and that "While the masters of the universe play the odds, the rest of us are scrambling, trying to figure out how to slow down the looming ecological catastrophe" while deriding a company thats pushing the envelope of electric vehicles and battery production, two things critically needed to move away from fossil fuels.

How is it possible for someone with a PhD to write an article about the market value of a company and not have a single sentence about the P/E ratio, cost of production or unit sales?

"They demonstrate the absurdity of a system in which the value of companies rests as much (or more) on their ability to tell a good story as it does on their actual track record." Ummmm, what? What the heck is even the difference between "telling a good story" and a "track record"? A track record is just one ingredient that people use to try and project how a company will perform in the future, i.e. part of trying to "tell a good story." Im a hard-core leftist, socialist, and generally enjoy the commie rag that is the Jacobin. This article is trash and the author should be ashamed to have her name attached to such low effort nonsense.

<comment><USER4> > How is it possible for someone with a PhD to write an article about the > market value of a company and not have a single sentence about the P/E > ratio, cost of production or unit sales?

Quite bluntly, a PhD only means that the person was able to defend a thesis against a selected group of experts on a specialized academic subject that they studied for years. That doesn't mean the person holding a PhD is competent in any field outside the niche topic they studied for years just to have a single argument.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> Echo the other comments.

"I don't like the valuation so let's socialize capital" seems inane, especially when co palomino about ecological catastrophe in the context of an article about electric cars.

Don't like the share price, short the stock. Something you can do in the democratic west and can't do in Soviet Russia or CCP China (I know I've tried).

</comment><comment><USER8> Counterargument: Tesla's P/S ratio is 4.

One can argue that's inappropriate or high, but one cannot argue that "no rational system" would ever consider a Tesla P/S ratio of 4 to be irrational.

</comment><comment><USER9> Worst article I've ever read. It makes a click bait claim and backs it up with literally zero evidence, analysis, and numbers. The one time it mentions a number of any kind is "Tesla's scheme to have its customers — who have paid upward of $90,000 for their cars — rent them out as self-driving taxis during the day while they are at work is pretty implausible." Again, why is it implausible? No reason given.

</comment><comment><USER10> I think that many of us assumed that even though Tesla was the early innovator, that the traditional car manufacturers would rapidly overtake Tesla --because of their manufacturing skills, much more extensive dealer base, brand loyalty, etc.

But this hasn't happened. And since many of us think EVs are going to become fairly prevalent, this means Tesla is worth very serious money.

</comment><comment><USER11> We do not have a rational monetary system, so expecting rational valuations in the terms of that system is not rational.

What is the present value of any revenue stream if you think that interest rates are going to be negative in real terms for the foreseeable future?

</comment><comment><USER12> I think there is some truth to the argument that the sum total addressable market and revenue from Tesla will not justify their current valuation. It would not surprise me see a drop in their market cap in the near term.

That said, the market can remain irrational long than you can remain solvent. (In almost all cases)

<comment><USER13> If they solve self driving they are undervalued. If they own the only self driving solution, they own the transportation industry.

If they patent a new battery technology, they could end up being undervalued.

If they are just a car company they are likely overvalued.

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> No rational thinker would give any credence to words written in a "full communist" magazine about how a system of economics should be run.</comment>


Google will collect $1.3M from patent troll that sued its customers - <AUTHOR> http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/08/google-will-collect-1-3-million-from-patent-troll-that-sued-its-customers/

<comment><USER2> Google funded the Troll originally. Then it sued some of Google's customers. Google was able to extract some of it's court costs from the troll (which it already paid a large sum to) but not all of those costs. Shame on google for funding this troll in the first place. Really? Did beneficial technologies (or an affiliate) create double-click technology? Why would a billion dollar company settle. They should have held no quarter.</comment>


Project Isolation Beyond Requirements.txt - <AUTHOR> https://blog.niteo.co/project-isolation-beyond-requirements-txt/ <comment><USER2> the fact that nix exists, only tells me that containers have failed completely.

the original linux containers demo was about running binnaries with different kernels and libs. today containers are a way to consume aws products.</comment>


Ask HN: Templates for startup legal agreements - <AUTHOR> I am looking for legal templates for things like invention disclosure, copyright assignment, non-compete agreement etc to hire team members.. Can you please share if there are any ? <comment><USER2> [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9977259](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9977259)</comment>


The Greening of Paris Makes Its Mayor More Than a Few Enemies - <AUTHOR> https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/05/world/europe/paris-anne-hildago-green-city-climate-change.html <comment><USER2> The article is mixing a few different points in a strange way. Paris has an excellent subway system with about 350 stations, everywhere you want to go there is a subway station less than 500 meters away, sometimes you have 2-3 stations in this range. There is also the RER that connects to surrounding cities and villages. Driving is Paris does not make too much sense to me. But building lots of bicycle lanes is not making any significant difference, as a person that used to use the bicycle to commute to the office I can tell I had just 6-7 months when I was able to do that - in hot summer and in the middle of the winter it is simply too unpleasant to use the bicycle.

On the other side, the article suggests part of the disagreement with the mayor is because she is a woman. Well, that is a bad excuse, I don't think anyone has a problem with her gender.

Then it mentions the piss smell. Yes, it is there, it is terrible, but greening and piss have no relationship. There are some obvious causes for the piss smell in some neighborhoods, but they are not even mentioned because it does not match the political color of the newspaper. No comment.

But then it jumps into the Airbnb problem: while this is a real problem, it has nothing to do with "greening" the city. It should be discussed separately, not thrown in the pot and stirred just to put more words in the article or put more substance in the list of problems, even if there is no link to the subject.

<comment><USER3> Paris too hot in the summer? C'mon, the average high is like 25C. Too cold in the winter? Oulu, Finland would like a word.

As Germans would say, there is no bad weather, only bad clothing. Or in this case, probably bad infrastructure. Only visited once, but Paris didn't seem to have all that many protected bike lanes and paths compared to even Munich -- which definitely still favors cars over bikes -- let alone compared to Dutch cities.

<comment><USER2> You don't go to the office on the average temperature, everything higher than 25 degrees, some longer distance and/or some small hills and you get there sweaty and smelly. Anything over 30 degrees guarantees that and an average high of 25 degrees means you can have 2-3 hotter days every week - it is enough to make cycling unpredictable.

I currently work in Bucharest and the average high is higher, from May to September you have 30 degrees or more, while in the winter you have snow on the road and it is illegal to ride a bicycle. Not Finland and not Cairo (Egypt), but good enough to make cycling unpleasant.

<comment><USER4> Now there is something called electric bike that solve the summer and hills problems. And clothing that solve the winter one. I used to take public bus on an unconvenient path with a lot of walking, but now with an electric bike on 150m of positive climbs I take less time.

<comment><USER5> > And clothing that solve the winter one.

How exactly does that help you get grip on snow and ice? Combined with less light (harder to notice bikes) and generally more rainy days, biking just isn't an all around the year thingy here in central Europe. I do try as much as possible, though. And Paris might not be as bad as well.

<comment><USER6> It flat out does not snow that much in Paris. I live in NYC which gets more snow and there's rarely a single day per year where it snows enough to make biking impractical. It just doesn't actually snow that much, and when it does, it's cleared quickly.

On the very rare day where there's enough snow on the roads to make biking impossible, just don't bike on that day. Take the subway, or work from home, or whatever.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> It's not the greening that makes people in Paris angry, it's the the incompetence in implementing nice sounding ideas. Anyone can have a good idea and say it to get elected ... nobody is going to argue with more trees, family friendly city, less crime etc. everyone can recognize these are good ideas ... the difference is in that you put an incompetent but marketable idiot into office and the final outcome will be negative to where you started.

An example, Paris has now public piss boxes on every major cross-roads to avoid people pissing in small streets so now you have smelly pissed over boxes in the highest foot traffic areas and people openly pissing there.

Good idea, poor implementation, the net value is negative i.e. the situation is worse.

So you have a woman with no track record in life in an office surrounded by other people with no track record but ticking the political, sociological boxes. And if you're 50 and you haven't built a track record of any productive work with your own resources at your own risk, you're not likely to suddenly build one with other people's resources (money) at their risk ... your incompetence is likely going to show up.

<comment><USER8> I spent a week in Paris last Christmas, and made use of many of those public toilets, especially because I have a toddler. The ones I used didn't spell outside. I'm sure I only have a small sample of maybe a dozen, but I have no reason to think they're an exceptional sample?

>So you have a woman with no track record in life in an office surrounded by other people with no track record but ticking the political, sociological boxes. And if you're 50 and you haven't built a track record of any productive work, you're not likely to suddenly build one with other people's money

I obviously do not follow Paris municipal politics, but why would it flow that never having help public office means you'll never be able to hold off and "build a track record"? That seems a bit circular.

<comment><USER7> No, the problem is these people only held public jobs. They are what you get when bureaucrat breeds with a PR guy ... no creative work, no-problem solving, no personal stakes on their resumes.

When they then decide it's time to be productive the lack of competence and disparity between ideas and skills show up. You'll get the case of industrious idiot.

For such people a creative task is like a school activity with no personal risk other than bad grade ... but in reality the risk exists they play for other people's money and livelihoods. I've personally observed such tendencies and attitudes among eurocrats.

<comment><USER9> > No, the problem is these people only held public jobs

We had a good example under the last administration, with an employment minister who could even answer a basic question on how many times a duration- limited contract can be renewed (after reaching that number of times, the employer has to hire with a non-duration-limited contract (CDD => CDI)). And that's the people who are writing the work code!

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> The mayor, Anne Hidalgo, has said she wants Paris to be a place "where you can let go of your child's hand." I think that's beautiful. People sacrifice so much freedom to allow cars to dominate their space.

<comment><USER3> That's a nice way to put it. Once you have a toddler and you're walking around on a street with them, you realize that cars represent _DRASTICALLY_ more imminent, lethal danger to your kid than basically anything else around.

<comment><USER10> Have you seen this illustration?

[https://ggwash.org/view/36573/to-a-pedestrian-a-roads-a- tiny...](https://ggwash.org/view/36573/to-a-pedestrian-a-roads-a-tiny-space- with-danger-just-beside)

<comment><USER11> Thank you so much! I've been searching the Web for years to find this cartoon (to no avail) and funnily that was to describe my life as a Parisian.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> I've recently become a huge fan of Horace Dediu's writing and podcast on micromobility[1] (defined as the rise of vehicles <500kg). He frames micromobility as the "unbundling of the car".[2]

While the article only tangentially talks about micromobility vehicles, the core argument of this article is the creation of infrastructure that enables micromobility.

I just spent yesterday walking through parts of Brooklyn and Queens in NYC (14 miles, 33K steps - a record for me). I saw people actually talking to each other on the street, and based on my deliberate route, very little traffic. That's a stark contrast to my usual suburban lifestyle on the eastside in Seattle.

I really hope to see more infrastructure creation happening in the US. It will likely need to start in dense places like NYC with good transit infrastructure.

[1] [https://micromobility.io/blog](https://micromobility.io/blog)

[2] [https://medium.com/micromobility/micromobility- episode-1-tra...](https://medium.com/micromobility/micromobility- episode-1-transcript-a4a017c3d3ec)

<comment><USER13> There's been an explosion in electric things in the past few years (scooters, skateboards, one-wheels, etc), they're mighty convenient for last mile transportation, and not particularly expensive.

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> Paris traffic was insane long before she got elected. I'm always amazed at how people are unable to think two steps ahead, instead focusing just on today and how traffic is 'awful'. Well, she's doing something about it, isn't she?!

<comment><USER15> It's not like traffic jams weren't a thing prior to this, just that there wasn't an alternative.

What's the pro-auto solution to the traffic jams and pollution? You can't physically fit more cars in the space. Bikes, scooters and public transit are all so much more efficient and truly practical for city transportation that it feels hard to argue with.

<comment><USER16> Lots of tunnels a la The Boring Company and electric vehicles. The tech seems to work, but the politics doesn't support it. People in government want mass transit they control, not personalized transit.

<comment><USER17> The boring company has not yet demonstrated their ability to dig tunnels quickly and cheaply compared to the many existing tunnel-digging companies. Politicians actually seem to love Musk's claims of being able to do so though, considering Boring is doing well landing some deals with them.

There isn't really much "tech" there, just a small subway tunnel with car- sized cabs instead of trains. Personal rapid transit systems have already been demonstrated decades ago and there isn't really reason to believe they could be cost-effective at replacing personal car use.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> I don't know how things are in Paris (never really been), but here in NYC public transit is extremely unreliable and optimized for only one use case: to move 9-5 commuters between their homes in the outer boroughs and the two central business districts of Manhattan. For any other use case the transit system is basically useless. For example, my kid needs to get from school to swim practice multiple times a week. School and swim team schedules are set in stone, but there isn't a public transit option that will allow the two to coexist without incredible daily feats of arbitrage between ride share and a hellish commute involving two buses. This is physically impossible, not merely inconvenient.

Let's not pretend that transit can solve for the needs of every single city resident. If the city has any ambition to be a melting pot for all, it needs to allow everyone to coexist. Some people will choose to drive, others will take transit, but to push one group out in favor of another will leave the city a hollowed out core once again... just like it was before the urban renaissance which began in the 1990s.

PS: If your main objection to cars is pollution, we'll mosey on over to electric cars as soon as charging infrastructure gets off the ground. There's only a smattering of Teslas in Manhattan, but soon enough there will be enough charging stations to get our gas guzzlers off the road for good.

<comment><USER19> > If the city has any ambition to be a melting pot for all, it needs to allow > everyone to coexist.

Which is an excellent argument for public transport, the point of it is to serve everyone rather than those who can afford to own and run a car and those how have the ability to drive.

I can't comment to NYC public transit but there are plenty of cities around the world with reliable and effecient public transport, don't write it off completely because NYC's is subpar. The idea is not to ban cars completely but to make taking alternatives easier and better than taking a car, in doing that we need to divert some of the money and land that cars have historically dominated.

<comment><USER18> > plenty of cities around the world with reliable and effecient public > transport, don't write it off completely because NYC's is subpar.

I'm certainly not writing off public transit as a concept. I'd _love_ to be able to step out of my building, step into a magical conveyance that I didn't have to drive myself, and step out next to my destination.

It's great that other cities managed to solve this problem, but I don't live in those other cities. Yes, NYC could right itself, and build more subway/tram/BRT lines, but this tends to take forever. I need to get places now. My life won't wait for the city to sort itself out.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> I've left Paris 12 years ago. I hate cars so much.

Glad to see they're realizing those things.

People should never forget how the car industry lobbied so that cars own most of the street. Biking and walking have become marginal things. How often do you realize you can't go from point A to B because it's impossible to street walk anymore? I've walked around cities many times, and I could not go in a direction because of how roads could not be crossed.

The "1-person car " meme is a real, real problem. Most people think that driving is a right, but we soon realize it's more a privilege and a source of problems.

<comment><USER21> _> People should never forget how the car industry lobbied so that cars own most of the street._

Please stop with the conspiracy stories. I hate cars more than anyone, but all this "Big Auto" stuff just discredits the entire thing as a bunch of fanatics.

<comment><USER22> There is a documented history of this kind of thing. See [https://www.vox.com/2015/1/15/7551873/jaywalking- history](https://www.vox.com/2015/1/15/7551873/jaywalking-history)

<comment><USER21> That is a vox article. It's fun to read and gets a lot of shares on social media. But it wildly exaggerates reality and wildly downplays that massive demand and growth in car ownership during that period.

The idea that everyone hated cars and the evil car lobby came in and forced it upon them is flat out incorrect.

<comment><USER23> You'll probably convince more people by citing evidence to support your claims instead of using ad homs.

<comment><USER21> Literally and chart about automobile ownership from 1940 to 1980.

<comment><USER24> Such a chart would in no manner prove your point. Something can become prevalent could be because (a) it is the preferred option out of many equivalent and equally available options or (b) it is the chosen option due to having been given preferentially treatment. Given that your time period contains Eisenhower's expansion of the federal highway system, option (b) is the more reasonable interpretation.

<comment><USER21> We've seen the phenomenon globally.

<comment><USER25> Not in the way it is in the US...

Even Paris discussed in TFA is 10 times better than 99% of American cities... and most of European cities are even better walkability wise...

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> It's too bad their electric carshare system failed: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autolib%27](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autolib%27)

And their municipal bike-sharing system probably won't survive the triple whammy of drop-bikes, e-scooters and a contract change.

<comment><USER27> Disclaimer : I live in Paris and my commute is 95% the municipal bike-sharing system.

My prediction is it wont go away because :

\- too much branding associated, velib = Paris

\- too much (taxpayer) money invested. Competitors are X5 in prices due to muncipal money distortion.

<comment><USER28> Hard to beat those 30 free minutes per ride at ~30€ / year

<comment><USER27> Well, price got revisited[1], now is more 40€/year for that

[1][https://www.velib-metropole.fr/en/offers#subscription](https://www.velib- metropole.fr/en/offers#subscription)

<comment><USER28> Oh. My bad. I should have kept up to date.

Still, at 0,20€ / minute on Lime, that's the same price as five half-hour Lime rides.

<comment><USER27> plus the 1€ unlock fee charged by most (IDK about lime particularly)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> > Don't mention her name to taxi drivers.

This has more to do with Uber than a war on the car. If you thought your taxis were bad, Paris' were worse.

</comment><comment><USER29> There is a war in the French twitter vs bike-enthusiasts and car users every time a major road sees a bicycle lane added.

It feels weird to the rest of us, living outside Paris, to see so much media noise over 500 m of asphalt...

<comment><USER30> New York gets physical altercations at public meetings:

[https://gothamist.com/news/battle-over-park-slope-bike- lane-...](https://gothamist.com/news/battle-over-park-slope-bike-lane-gets- physical-you-wanna-clown-around-me)

<comment><USER31> That has to be one of the most entertaining, bizarre and depressing accounts of local politics I have ever read. Thanks.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER32> >But the city itself has seen a steep drop in car ownership, from 60 percent of households in 2001, to 35 percent today.

Having lived in Paris for 4 years (and I guess I could be accused of being a bobo since I am an engineer and I care about mitigating climate change), I wonder what the situation of these 35% is.

I sold my car as soon as I moved in Paris. The subway is just as efficient in almost all cases without having to drive.

And driving in Paris is just the worst..

<comment><USER33> > I wonder what the situation of these 35% is.

Easy. Live in Paris, work in the Banlieue somewhere inconvenient to an RER station...

<comment><USER32> I was just wondering from a stat perspective :)

I do know that there are cases where you still need a car.

I did dig up some info : [https://www.insee.fr/fr/statistiques/1285604](https://www.insee.fr/fr/statistiques/1285604)

Interestingly, it looks like the current mayor is just pushing the city in the direction where it is already going.

<comment><USER9> The "less car" direction was already started by the previous mayor, though.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER34> > The environmental results are ambiguous at best. There were around five days > with elevated ozone levels, for instance, in 2014, the year Ms. Hidalgo took > over; in 2018 there were from 15 to 22, depending on which part of the city > you were in.

>"There are fewer cars, but there is more congestion, and that can affect pollution levels," said Paul Lecroart, an urban planning expert at the Paris regional planning agency.

I think this is what makes people angry. There is no evidence that this actually reduced pollution, in fact, it seems like it increased pollution. In addition, it has greatly inconvenienced a lot of people. So, unless you are a die-hard bike fan, this mayor's program seems like a net negative to you.

<comment><USER11> That's short sighted. It takes time for people to change habits.

I've been a "die-hard bike fan" for a few years now (living in Paris for 10+ years, but commuting with bikes for only the last 2-3). However, most of my friends (especially girls/women) are only _now_ considering buying a bike because the infrastructure is just starting to look safe enough for "prudent" people

That's why bike usage rising fast in Paris. But it will still takes a few more years to switch like Amsterdam.

Of course, many are still riding Ubers but they're changing mind right now. Be patient.

</comment></comment><comment><USER35> American here. I wish we had a way to restrict trucks to delivery and work crews, with commuters who don't need a land yacht to driving something like Fiat 500, Toyota IQ, Mini Cooper: Max 1.6m tall, 1.8m wide, 4m long. Cities would be drastically more livable.

<comment><USER36> It's really amazing. I recently traveled to see my SO in Singapore, and made a stop in Seoul, and seemingly every city is laying down restrictions on SUVs. SUVs even make the road worse for other drivers yet no city in the US has the guts to put restrictions on them.

</comment></comment><comment><USER37> And it's OK that this move is making the Mayor more than a few enemies.

The job of elected officials is not to please everyone. The job of elected officials is to improve stuff, and leave the region in a better state than when they came into office.

In the coming years and decades we're going to need _a lot_ of elected officials to "make enemies" as they work hard to improve the unsustainable world we've built.

<comment><USER38> The job of elected officials is to represent the people, no more, no less. "Improve stuff" is extremely subjective I don't think I want one guy to decide what it is.

<comment><USER39> > "Improve stuff" is extremely subjective

well breathing clean air and not cooking the planet is about as non-subjective as it gets. We're not really talking about sophisticated moral quandaries here, the bar for improvement in our societies is actually surprisingly low.

Not having everyone of the billions of people living in our cities carry around two tons of steel wherever they go ought to appeal to anyone who can do a bit of napkin math about energy consumption.

Elected officials doing whatever people tell them like a sort of walking strawpoll is a nice fiction but at the end of the day letting the inmates run the asylum is a bad idea. If we want to make necessary improvements it's going to come at the cost of going against the often short-sighted interests of citizens.

<comment><USER40> Ah yes the old "the majority of people are wrong, MY ideas are correct, why doesn't the government just implement all of MY ideas as they're obviously correct" argument.

<comment><USER39> in some cases the majority of people _are_ wrong, and it is trivial to show why they are wrong. In case of environmental issues or degrading of the commons in general the issue is that externalities are not priced in as economists would say, and if they are tried to be priced in like in France, the democratic process or even street violence is used to prevent that from happening.

Again I think it's important to state that this isn't the case for all issues. On many fronts majority opinion may be useful, but on some issues it's glaringly obvious that people are unwilling to bear the costs for their lifestyle, and ignore the long-term harm they cause.

In fact there's another democratic majority that is completely ignored by this appeal to the people, and that is future citizens. As Chesteron once said about the dead

 _"Tradition means giving a vote to most obscure of all classes, our ancestors. It is the democracy of the dead." Tradition refuses to submit to the small and arrogant oligarchy of those who merely happen to be walking about. All democrats object to men being disqualified by the accident of birth; tradition objects to their being disqualified by the accident of death. "_

I think more importantly than the dead are the countless of people who have to live with the mess we've left for them and in which they didn't have a say.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER41> something wrong with the title?

> The Greening of Paris Makes Its Mayor Make More Than a Few Enemies

?

<comment><USER2> Not really. There is a repetition, but that is a minor issue that does not deserve a comment. The title is definitely overly complex for what it wants to tell, but that's just modern journalism/

</comment></comment><comment><USER42> FWIW: a few high-rise apartment buildings would do far more for climate impact than all the trees they could possibly squeeze into Paris. Paris's building codes have historically been a disaster for density, and at the end of the day it's urban density that matters more than anything else. Get/keep the people off then land, then turn it into something less impactful.

<comment><USER43> That's an odd take. Paris is the densest city in the EU and one of the densest cities in the world.

<comment><USER44> That's arguable one of those lies of statistics. This comes up every time for example Hong Kong is way way WAY more dense than Paris. But because of arbitrary city boundries some unpopulated mountains are included in the city borders so the true density is not remotely the density listed on these kinds of lists.

Go visit Hong Kong and you'll see it's easily 5x as dense as Paris. Maybe more. The same is true of many other cities in Asia. Visit and you'll realize the stats that show Paris in the top 10 are complete BS.

The same thing comes up NYC vs LA. By the land / people they are about the same density but anyone who's been to both knows NYC is more dense than LA. Using population weight density shows NYC is up to 3x more dense than LA

[https://www.smartcitiesdive.com/ex/sustainablecitiescollecti...](https://www.smartcitiesdive.com/ex/sustainablecitiescollective/census- bureau-embraces-weighted-density/69236/)

With poulation weighted density Paris is not #1 in Europe

[https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threads/weighted-density-of- eu...](https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threads/weighted-density-of-european-and- australian-cities.24635/)

And if the same was applied world wide Paris would not even be in the top 100</comment></comment></comment>


Six Ways to Automate Photo Backup From Phone To Cloud - <AUTHOR> http://www.fastcolabs.com/3016426/six-ways-to-automate-photo-backup-from-phone-to-cloud

<comment><USER2> I've found trovebox.com (the openphoto project) to be a simple way to archive pictures as well as auto-upload phone pictures.

And it allows you to switch out storage backends if you want.</comment>


Signing bonus that you only after x months of work, is this normal? - <AUTHOR>

I was under the impression that a signing bonus was given to you as soon as you started the job. But I just got a job offer where the sign on bonus is only available to me after 2-3 months, with the additional specification that if I quit or am fired within a year I have to pay it back to them.<p>I just wanted to know ... is this normal? <comment><USER2> You should insist that the "pay it back to them":

1\. only applies if you quit, not if they fire you

2\. be pro-rata -- i.e. if you quit after 9 months, you only pay back (12-9)/12 = 1/4 of the bonus

With the above, you can also ask (not necessarily insist), that they pay you the bonus now, or by the next paycheck.

</comment><comment><USER3> This is very common as some companies don't want to you disappear within 3 months of joining because they have spent a lot of money hiring you.

The year part of it is to make sure that they have "made back" their signing bonus.

</comment><comment><USER4> Yes, that's not unusual.

Were you really planning on taking the signing bonus, and jumping in less than a year?</comment>


Valid.ly – Never send another OOPS message - <AUTHOR> https://www.valid.ly <comment><USER2> Once I get on your site I don't seem to be able to get off it using the back button.</comment>


Inside the $499 aluminum NES that's crafted like a Leica - <AUTHOR> http://www.theverge.com/2015/6/26/8850397/analogue-nt-premium-nes-nintendo-console

<comment><USER2> Not such a great analogy. Yes, Leica's can be a vanity item or a status symbol but the fact is that their optics achieve things in a significantly smaller package at an amazing level of quality that is often unequaled by even top of the line Japanese systems. I don't own one and probably will never give my Nikons to get one but to compare it to a console that plays a couple of games is like apples to gyroscopes.</comment>


Popular Google Chrome extensions are constantly tracking you by default - <AUTHOR> http://labs.detectify.com/post/133528218381/chrome-extensions-aka-total-absence-of-privacy <comment><USER2> > more often than not, the extensions are also embedding third-party scripts > which are gathering all your browser traffic.

As someone who writes a lot of chrome extensions, I find that annoying, not to mention a bit insulting. Please provide the complete list of bad behaving extensions instead of implying we're mostly writing extensions to lure users into a trap.

There are so many cool things you can do with chrome extensions, which are largely unexplored yet. Actually, it reminds me the state of javascript in the early 2000. It was not uncommon then too to say javascript developers were only in to write malwares and javascript should be avoided as much as possible. What would the web look like today if we listened to them?

Now, the state of chrome permissions is indeed very bad. It is very restrictive by essence (you wouldn't have that many restrictions writing a desktop app, and you could do way more harm), but it makes everything looks suspicious. Do you need to access something to build a feature? Now user, when installing the extension, will catalog all the bad things you could do with this permission.

Worst part is, the perimeter of permissions is often poorly delimited. Do you want user to be able to use an extension that enhance their experience on a website of their choice? You have to ask to be able to edit just any website. You often reach the "this extension can read all your browser history" state when you couldn't care less.

I would gladly pay google to review my extension code and mark it as trusted. The confusion between good and bad developers must stop.

<comment><USER3> They can't provide a list not just because it's widespread, but because extensions can silently add this through automatic updates. Even if your extension is clean right now, and even if you wouldn't add anything like this yourself, you could sell your extension to someone a year or two down the line and the buyer could start tracking all your users' browsing with no notification to them.

<comment><USER2> I get your point, but the same argument could be made to say we should avoid having computers, or at least avoid connecting them to a network :) (any hardware or software company could be sold to bad people who will find clever ways not to be detected)

There is a trust issue here, not sure why it hits chrome extensions harder (although, I'm pretty sure the whole permissions system made people turn paranoid). We will probably need some kind of trusted party audit system to get further.

Also, the list of extensions they have should be published, IMO, even (and especially) if developers are not aware about it. This should be treated as vulnerabilities and disclosed so there's a chance to take action on it.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> This is basically why I only install a few extensions from trusted developers such as Google, EFF, and uBlock. Google tracks me anyway, EFF doesn't track me and it would destroy their reputation if they chose to start tracking, and uBlock Origin is the only popular remaining adblock extension which hasn't sold out (yet).

Edit: uBlock Origin is the one that doesn't suck, uBlock is to be avoided.

<comment><USER5> uBlock origin, beware of uBlock.

<comment><USER6> I've read the difference, ublock doesn't seem very harmful, would I should I be wary ? Is it just because it's not free on ios or something ?

<comment><USER7> It's a question of the character of the people running the thing. The ublock guy seems a bit sketchier than the ublock origin guy.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> For those looking for a HoverZoom alternative, Imagus[1] works very well and does no tracking. (just a happy user)

[1] [https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/imagus/immpkjjlgap...](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/imagus/immpkjjlgappgfkkfieppnmlhakdmaab/related?hl=en)

</comment><comment><USER9> When it comes to Google and Data Collection just always assume the worst. Not to bash on Google, I am no hater, but it's what they make money with. Browser for free? Google Mail with 15 GB of storage? We all know their business model. Either you pay with money or with information.

I have been non-trusting of many Scripts for years now, call me paranoid, but if Facebook actually has the capability to just track you via Facebook Scripts that are executed on every site you have the option to Log in with Facebook or share via Facebook directly from the site, why would they not do it?

Google also tries to keep you logged by all means possible.

I block their Scripts, only temporarily allow if I need them, I don't keep cookies for longer than my current session except for Fastmail, I use VPN, have no DNS-Leak and WebRTC Detection turned off (last I checked you could not turn WebRTC Detection off in Chrome and the Extensions promising to do that were not working).

And that's also why I use Mozilla Firefox. Not because it's the technically better browser, but I have trust in Mozilla and their API just allows capabilities Chrome isn't capable of (that's why there is no NoScript in Chrome and no, there is no NoScript-Alternative in Chrome with the same features and capabilities, look it up).

Back when I used both Chrome and Firefox side by side, Firefox for example would turn off some Add-Ons/Extensions in Private Browsing Mode, while Chrome would not. I guess we all can grasp what most likely was the reason for it (Add-Ons/Extensions should not be able to obtain information from the user if in private browsing).

I am not saying that everyone should do it this way, I even recognize I am not the normal user and this is not for everyone, but complaining about Google because of Data Collection is like complaining about Facebook and the information they have about people while using it heavily and putting sensitive information up on it willingly. Get over it ;)

<comment><AUTHOR> Well, the topic of the article is not Google collecting data. It is about Chrome extensions.

I can agree to some parts of what you said.

<comment><USER9> Yep, but since Google's whole business model revolves around monetizing user information, I am not surprised about this article. Google's Motto is "Data Collection for monetary purposes is not evil".

Think about Android Application Permissions for example, I am not sure whether or not you now can revoke permissions one by one on your own (think I read something about this), but for how long was this not possible?

<comment><USER10> This has nothing to do with Google's business model. This is about the business model of extension developers.

<comment><USER9> It's also what the Platform allows the Extension Developers to do and the users not to do.

One Example? I have been disabling what Apps get access to on my Blackberry for I don't know how long. Forbid Whatsapp to have Access to the Camera? No Problem, if I want to make a photo from within Whatsapp it then says something that it isn't capable of doing so, just how it should be.

How a Browser behaves in private Browsing also is a browser-side issue. Whether or not the API allows Extension developers to give users the functionality NoScript for example provides to its users it also a browser- side issue.

See for example here (you won't see Google spearheading this cause) [http://techcrunch.com/2015/08/14/mozilla-makes-private- brows...](http://techcrunch.com/2015/08/14/mozilla-makes-private-browsing- more-private-in-firefox-adds-tracking-protection/)

The distinction between "This concerns only the Extensions" and "this concerns only the browser itself" is not as clear and easy as you say it is, especially in this case.

Since Google is all about obtaining information and using it, I don't think they are to be trusted in developing a browser that is highly concerned with user's privacy. Everybody has to make their own decision.

<comment><AUTHOR> So do you feel like Google Chrome as a platform is not giving you enough information about what the Google Chrome extensions are doing and not giving users enough power to act on such information?

Also about firefox from the comments in this discussion by zetafunction: zetafunction 5 hours ago:

        From the article:
        Are Firefox extensions any better?
        To be honest, no.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> I would have thought that past 1,000,000 downloads you could trust the plugin but that is shown to be wrong. With Windows software I do a skim of the Wikipedia article for controversy as a sanity check but there aren't any for these extensions.

Previously I would search the apps name + some obvious terms like malware but those results are too spammy to be helpful now. Extensions are very useful, so I'd hope there'd be some reaction from Google on this.

</comment><comment><USER12> Are there any adblocker-like/privacy-proxy tools to neuter extensions like this?

<comment><USER13> uBlock Origin can be used to block requests made by the browser and by extensions. The logger UI allows you to inspect these requests, and the 'behind-the-scenes' keyword can be used instead of a domain to construct blocking rules.

See [https://github.com/chrisaljoudi/uBlock/wiki/Behind-the- scene...](https://github.com/chrisaljoudi/uBlock/wiki/Behind-the-scene- network-requests), which is applicable to both uBlock and uBlock Origin.

<comment><USER14> > uBlock Origin can be used to block requests made [...] by extensions

This is no longer true for the Chromium version. There were changes in Chromium which now prevent extensions from being able to inspect/block network requests made by other extensions.

See: [https://github.com/gorhill/uMatrix/issues/338](https://github.com/gorhill/uMatrix/issues/338)

<comment><USER13> Well that certainly is disappointing.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> Extensions have a lot of power. We've written about a situation in the past where an extension actually XSS'd sites unintentionally, even if the site itself had XSS protections built-in: [https://www.tinfoilsecurity.com/blog/building-a-browser- exte...](https://www.tinfoilsecurity.com/blog/building-a-browser-extension-be- careful-not-t-17787)

</comment><comment><USER16> Once in awhile, I just yearn for the good ol' days of ActiveX.

<comment><USER17> ActiveX awesomely enabled a popular antivirus to execute from a webpage. Or at least that's what I understood at the time, but nevertheless that's the day I switched to Firefox.

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> Does anyone have any knowledge about Wappalyzer? I cannot find it on this list, but it requests an inject.js on every webpage, even if the anonymous data sending is switched off in options.

It's quite a popular and valuable extension for web developers, I hope someone can explain how it works.

<comment><USER19> I read the file, it seems safe to me. It keeps track of javascript variables, and displays them in an element. There are many legit uses of injected scripts. I recommend the extension "Chrome extension source viewer", CRX viewer, to read the code without installing an extension. [https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/chrome- extension-s...](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/chrome-extension- source-v/jifpbeccnghkjeaalbbjmodiffmgedin)

</comment></comment><comment><USER20> So this is essentially the same as man in the middle attacks but your basically saying here are all my keys. Scary. They better step up security on the extensions review process.

I've already dumped chrome/Google because it tracks everything possible about you, especially when signed in.

<comment><USER9> Have you tried using Chromium? _(I still recommend Firefox though)_

Chrome is basically a stable release from Google of the Chromium Browser (which in itself is an Open Source Project), as such Chrome is more tightly integrated with Google Services, Chromium should be the better choice considering not wanting to be tracked.

I think some systems (*BSD, GNU/Linux distributions) even only have Chromium available through their package systems, others possibly both.

<comment><USER21> Chromium won't help you: [https://bugs.debian.org/cgi- bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=786909](https://bugs.debian.org/cgi- bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=786909)

<comment><USER9> Phew... interesting, though it is marked as fixed?!

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> Does Adblock plus do this?

In Chrome's permissions they can read your browsing history.

<comment><USER23> I don't know for sure, but there's been quite a bit of controversy about them in the last year, mainly because of their whitelisting ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adblock_Plus#Controversy_over_...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adblock_Plus#Controversy_over_ad_filtering_and_ad_whitelisting)). I switched to ublock origin, works well for me, others recommend ublock (there's been quite a bit of drama between the original dev who's responsible for ublock origin, and the new dev who's responsible for ublock, I can't really recommend one over the other, if you're interested you might want to do some research there)

<comment><USER24> "I don't know for sure..."

Please stop spreading FUD.

Adblock Plus is not mentioned in the blog post, has a privacy policy and is open source. If you're worried about how it handles your data you can have a look at the code for yourself.

[https://adblockplus.org/en/privacy](https://adblockplus.org/en/privacy) [https://github.com/adblockplus/adblockpluschrome](https://github.com/adblockplus/adblockpluschrome)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> I feel I should hand roll my own extensions from copies of favorites that I no longer trust (dead mouse, etc). Is there a good tutorial out there for this?

<comment><USER26> 1\. You can download the source code of any extension on the Chrome Web Store using this extension: [https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/chrome- extension-s...](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/chrome-extension- source-v/jifpbeccnghkjeaalbbjmodiffmgedin?hl=en)

2\. Review the source code.

3\. Visit chrome://extensions and enable developer mode.

4\. Click "Load unpacked extension" and point to the folder containing the extension source code you've reviewed.

C.f. [https://developer.chrome.com/extensions/getstarted#unpacked](https://developer.chrome.com/extensions/getstarted#unpacked)

<comment><USER25> Awesome, thanks!!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> Does anyone know how big a deal this really is?

So a handful of developers (and their employers) have my full browser history. What could possibly go wrong?

<comment><USER28> They store access tokens to your private accounts ie. Gmail. They/future hackers can use them to access your accounts.

<comment><USER29> They can't steal cookies, because HttpOnly exists: [http://blog.codinghorror.com/protecting-your-cookies- httponl...](http://blog.codinghorror.com/protecting-your-cookies-httponly/)

They can take your passwords, though. If you install an extension that "can access your data on all sites", I hope your trust is well-founded.

<comment><USER15> To be clear, they can definitely steal cookies if the HTTPOnly flag isn't enabled. About 60% of the session cookies we see in our scans don't have it enabled. Scary.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> There have been many bad points for chrome this year, I'm glad I switched a long time ago to firefox.

<comment><USER30> The article has a section about Firefox plugins.

</comment></comment><comment><USER31> popular android and ios app as well, i may add ;-)

</comment><comment><USER32> I went through my Chrome extensions today and removed all that were not from Google or EFF. A bit painful but I thought I should do it.

<comment><AUTHOR> I think Ublock Origin is definitely a google chrome extension that should be installed. I think it will absolutely benefit you.

<comment><USER33> uMatrix is from the same developer and incredibly useful.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER34> One solution I see (though not optimal), is to install only those extensions you really can't do without, and then have them disabled by default. When you need to use its function though, enable it (only for that short session), and then disable it later.

Otherwise, I have inspected many seemingly innocent extensions like JaSON and REST Console (both meant to run in own tabs, without need to read/modify data on sites I visit, but which nevertheless request for these permissions!). I quickly noted that many other extensions did request for these perms as well... So, for now, for the ones I can't uninstall, I'll just disable them, and only opt-in (maybe in incognito), when I need to use them.

</comment><comment><USER35> OK, so I'm glad that I never trusted Chrome.

But now I'm wondering whether Firefox extensions are generally safe.

<comment><USER36> From the article:

 _Are Firefox extensions any better?_

 _To be honest, no._

<comment><USER35> Oops, I missed that :(</comment></comment></comment>


What if Oracle Wins?   - <AUTHOR> http://blog.herlein.com/2010/11/what-if-oracle-wins/

<comment><USER2> _A fast look at that does indicate that some Oracle copyrighted code may have been copied verbatim. As a long-time open source advocate this is clearly wrong. All the open source licenses are based on the fundamental copyright laws._

The sad part about it is that, in the court of public opinion none of this matters and that is the court that will in the end decide the direction of the tech industry. It is becoming increasingly obvious the days of the corps playing nice is over. We are going back to the verticals and developers will have to chose their vertical.

What I think Oracle, Apple and the other underestimate is the mindshare that Google, Apache and Redhat have. They may force more developers than they think onto a vertical provided by the Open Source community. The problem is going to be Java and Oracle knows that, they think if they can pull Java out from under them that it will set them back to the point that developers will have no choice but to go onto a corporate vertical provides stack. Time will tell, but it is a high stakes game that is being played right now that is for sure.

</comment><comment><USER3> _> A fast look at that does indicate that some Oracle copyrighted code may have been copied verbatim_

That's not really meaningful unless the code lifted is a non-obvious implementation of something. For as much as I know, it could be part of the only possible implementation of a public specification. I can copyright a document where I say 2 plus 2 is 4, yet, I cannot sue you for copyright infringement of you repeat this.

But that's not the point. The worse that could happen would be a version of Dalvik derived from the GPL'ed code in OpenJDK. As long as the don't step on Oracle's patents doing this in code that is not derived from Oracle GPL'ed code. It would have to be licensed under GPL, but the code that sits on top of it could be licensed under BSD-ish licenses just like Dalvik is now. What would happen is the GPL/BSD-ish divide would move up and encompass the VM and base classes.</comment>


Memcpy() concurrency curiosities - <AUTHOR> http://blogs.sun.com/dave/entry/memcpy_concurrency_curiosities <comment><USER2> Personally I tend to prefer multi-process over multi-threads. I like my IPC to be a bit more explicit. It seems cleaner, better defined and easier to distribute across boxes. Sure it's a slight performance degradation, but you can always use shared memory if they are on the same machine.

This seems like the kind of bug that wouldn't hit until production ramped up and it would be a time suck to find/fix.

<comment><USER3> I'm inclined to agree with you, but simply using multiple processes + IPC wouldn't have really affected this bug: you'd run into the same issue with one process reading from a shared memory region while another process memcpy()'s into it. That might be less likely to occur than with a multi-thread model, but it's still quite possible.

I think the lesson from the original post isn't "multi-threaded == bad"; it is that you should be _very_ careful when accessing the same memory region with two concurrent threads (or processes), even if both of those threads are performing seemingly-innocuous operations.

<comment><USER4> I'd go farther: don't try to read from memory at the same time that someone else is writing it. In the absence of explicit guarantees of atomicity, don't assume that any guarantees exist.

The interesting discovery in the article isn't that memcpy() can leave things in an intermediate state, but that releasing a JNI array triggers a copy even if the array is unaltered.

But this looks like a bug in the program (or the VM): either that copy back to the heap should not be occuring, or there should be some locking here. What if the data was changed? Would the Java thread just be expected to deal with all intermediate states? Alternatively, if the data is read-only, don't write to it!

<comment><USER5> _But this looks like a bug in the program (or the VM): either that copy back to the heap should not be occuring, or there should be some locking here. What if the data was changed? Would the Java thread just be expected to deal with all intermediate states? Alternatively, if the data is read-only, don't write to it!_

In the comments to the post you can see that the correct way to prevent a copy back would be to release the memory using JNI_ABORT. As far as I know, there's no way to enforce immutability on array contents in Java, so it's an implicit contract in the system: the contents really never does change.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Looking at the man page for memcpy, it states that it is explicitly for non- overlapping memory areas. Depending on implementation, then, it might even be "correct" behavior to leave the array in an inconsistent state (if the results are not well-defined).

<comment><USER7> They _are_ non-overlapping memory areas: "Note that in our case the source and destination memcpy() regions are completely disjoint." (2nd para)

And the array is not left in an inconsistent state. They are doing the equivalent of

        memcpy (a, b, n);
        memcpy (b, a, n);

and a different thread running at the same time observes incorrect data in the supposedly unaltered `b[]` during the second memcpy.</comment></comment>


PageRank on Hadoop - <AUTHOR> http://www.umiacs.umd.edu/~jimmylin/Cloud9/docs/content/pagerank.html

<comment><USER2> Good example from a very good book (I have been reading it the last two days): <http://www.umiacs.umd.edu/~jimmylin/book.html>

Hadoop, Mahout, Pig, etc. are great tools - at least for my work, they are game changers because they provide an inexpensive way to run large problems. As I blogged about last night, I am also reading the in-progress work "Mahout in Action" - another good resource.</comment>


Feedback on my startup's careers page? - <AUTHOR> http://barcodehero.com/careers

<comment><USER2> I'm a big fan of Rapportive's careers page (disclaimer: I designed it). <http://rapportive.com/jobs>

What we tried to do with Rapportive is give a good sense of the company and how awesome they are in the first half, then go into the actual job description in the second half. Lots of images, an interesting layout, etc.

As for your page, it's kind of non-engaging and hard to read. Shortening how wide your paragraphs are (12-15 words per line) will help with readability. Perhaps use a slightly off-white font color other than white. Add some images of the people who work there and your office. Make everything more interesting and eye-catching.

Good luck!</comment>


Evolving the Dart Language with Dart Enhancement Proposals - <AUTHOR> http://news.dartlang.org/2015/03/evolving-dart-language-with-dart.html

<comment><USER2> Hey, gang! I'm on the Dart team and am one of the people who worked on getting this squared away. Holler if you have any questions. I'm super pumped to have a process that's easier for people to get involved with.

<comment><USER3> Are there any lessons you have learned from existing language projects that use this process such as PEP (Python) and JEP (Java)? Personally, I like the fact that you have them in Github so it's easy to tag, comment, revise, etc.

<comment><USER2> > Are there any lessons you have learned from existing language projects that > use this process such as PEP (Python) and JEP (Java)?

Nothing that I can think of that's particularly insightful. Just the basics that, yes, people want to be involved, and that it takes a good amount of effort—technical, mental, and social—to get a proposal to the state that it needs to be in to land in the language.

> Personally, I like the fact that you have them in Github so it's easy to > tag, comment, revise, etc.

Thank you! I have to give credit to a team-member who suggested this, but I really really like this model. It lets each proposal be its own little mini- ecosystem and, I hope, should make it easier for multiple people to collaborate on a proposal.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> This is great. I'm using Dart on a (smallish) project, and I really like it. I'm a little nervous about whether it will be around in five years, and stuff like this really help reassure me on that front.

<comment><AUTHOR> There are business critical apps built in Dart here at Google. You're in good company. :)

<comment><USER5> In your experience, are Dart apps primarily ones that compile to Javascript and run in the browser, or server-side apps?

<comment><USER6> Most of the use of Dart at Google is client-side code running in the browser, but there's server-side use too. One example: Google Fiber settop boxes run server-side code on the Dart VM.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> This is really exciting. I love that they decided to follow this kind of community supported evolving of the language. This is what Python has been doing for years and it has worked very well. Congrats to the Dart community!

<comment><USER2> Yup, we based this process in large part on what the Python ecosystem does. Those folks are smart.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> I am someone that just can't stand java script I am wondering are we getting to the point where I have an option to use something like this instead? Last time I looked 18 months ago everything that was to replace java script caused me to have to go through the compiled code and deal with java script more then if I just wrote in java script in the first place.

<comment><AUTHOR> You'll need to compile to JavaScript to use Dart on the web. Lots of our developers say that the net win for them is the language, libraries, and tools they use while developing their app.

<comment><USER9> I really like and appreciate how Seth _clearly_ says that you _will_ need to compile Dart to JS for the deployed apps. Thank you!

For a long time Dart community were awaiting when Dart VM will be finally built-in into Chrome, and it was one of the selling points we often heard - Dart will be natively executed by the browsers. However, I personally don't think it's a big deal. Even if tomorrow Chrome... even if all the browsers tomorrow will be shipped with Dart VM inside, we still will have to deploy compiled to JS version for the next 3-5 years (the same with ES6 btw).

Don't get me wrong, I am looking forward to see Chrome with Dart VM onboard, I just don't think it's critical for real business apps.

I also second @jenscow's opinion, compilation to JS is a feature that has some important advantages. For the last 1,5 year I've been working on a business web app written in Dart, it's deployed into production. Most of the time we use dev channel to get access to the latest features. For 1,5 year we _never_ had an issue caused by compilation to JS. Actually 2 times we had issues reproducible only in JS version, but the errors were in our own code, had nothing to do with compilation process, regular race conditions that had higher chances to occur in JS.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> It's funny, but now that i've used golang, i can't help that think that async/await or any concurrency primitive isn't the kind of thing you add to a language in an update, but rather the things you build the language around.

Edit : of course that comment applies to server-side oriented languages. For client-side code running in a browser, this is less of an issue. Actually, dart-to-js on the client + golang for the api could be a good combo...

<comment><USER11> The team are also working on an experimental VM with support for coroutines and channels, threads will also have growable stacks, that will allow a similar programming style as used in go. See: [https://github.com/dart- lang/fletch](https://github.com/dart-lang/fletch)

Async/await is just sugar, it doesn't actually change APIs at all. Note C# also added async/await long after their first release.

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> Can you make Dart better for scripting / server side purposes? Batteries (a standard library) with the breadth of Python's or at least Go's would be handy.

<comment><AUTHOR> Dart is great for scripting and server-side today.

Check out [https://api.dartlang.org](https://api.dartlang.org) for our core libraries... lots of good stuff in there (collections, async, networking, files, sockets, etc).

And if you don't find what you're looking for, check out [https://pub.dartlang.org](https://pub.dartlang.org) for third-party packages. Everything from crypto to game loops to graphics to frameworks to database drivers, etc.

As for scripting, you can definitely use Dart for console scripts. You can write really simple scripts with just functions. You can read stdio and stdout. (you can even do it synchronously, which is much easier for console scripts :)</comment></comment>


Mayo Clinic finds individualized diets most effective for managing blood sugar - <AUTHOR> https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2019-02/mc-mcf020519.php <comment><AUTHOR> Full text: [https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle...](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2723644)

Basically, an ML model trained with many factors - including microbiome composition - is more predictive of post-food glucose response than the current nutrition-based methods (carbs and/or calories) alone. At least based on the limited studies so far, this seems the case for non-diabetics, pre- diabetics, and diabetics. More on the ML model: [https://genie.weizmann.ac.il/pubs/2015_david_2.pdf](https://genie.weizmann.ac.il/pubs/2015_david_2.pdf)</comment>


Cons to opening a startup outside Silicon Valley - <AUTHOR> http://www.techship2038.com/post/25256780475/cons-to-opening-a-startup-outside-silicon-valley# <comment><USER2> QUOTE: "There are programmers, but they don't have the right program language to work in a tech startup."

Programming languages should really not matter at all.</comment>


Redux-devtools-extension v2.8.0: changes in the Graph Monitor - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/zalmoxisus/redux-devtools-extension/releases/tag/v2.8.0 <comment><USER2> I know that a lot of people have complained about the "boilerplate" that Redux involves, but as Dan Abramov said in "You Might Not Need Redux" [0], there's tradeoffs involved. Redux asks that you write your code with some constraints, and those constraints in turn open up some interesting possibilities. Time- travel debugging is one of them. May not be useful for _every_ scenario, but I've certainly found it incredibly helpful in my own app. @mdiordiev has done a fantastic job taking the DevTools core that Dan built and the Monitor UIs built by the community, and wrapping those up into a cohesive tool that makes the debugging experience even better.

For anyone out there looking to get started with Redux, I keep a big list of links to high-quality tutorials, articles, and resources for React, Redux, and related topics [1] - specifically intended as a great starting point for anyone trying to learn the ecosystem, and a reference for more advanced techniques and topics. I also have a catalog of Redux-related addons and utilities as well [2].

[0] [https://medium.com/@dan_abramov/you-might-not-need-redux- be4...](https://medium.com/@dan_abramov/you-might-not-need-redux-be46360cf367)

[1] [https://github.com/markerikson/react-redux- links](https://github.com/markerikson/react-redux-links)

[2] [https://github.com/markerikson/redux-ecosystem- links](https://github.com/markerikson/redux-ecosystem-links)

</comment><comment><USER3> Just to say the previous title was more informative: "Better time travelling in Redux Devtools", or something like this. I didn't know about "time- travelling" debugging and I was curious to learn about it, that's why I clicked. "changes in the Graph Monitor" doesn't talk to me at all.

</comment><comment><USER4> The extension can be used apart from Redux, with any architecture which handles the state. Just connect to it and send actions and states. There's an implementation for MobX [1], for Angular ngrx [2], for RethinkDB Horizon [3].

Here's a post with more details: [https://medium.com/@zalmoxis/redux-devtools- without-redux-or...](https://medium.com/@zalmoxis/redux-devtools-without- redux-or-how-to-have-a-predictable-state-with-any-architecture-61c5f5a7716f)

Except Chrome, Firefox and Electron extensions, it can be used also remotely from React Native or even from the backend.

[1]: [https://github.com/zalmoxisus/mobx- remotedev](https://github.com/zalmoxisus/mobx-remotedev)

[2]: [https://github.com/ngrx/store-devtools](https://github.com/ngrx/store- devtools)

[3]: [https://github.com/zalmoxisus/horizon- remotedev](https://github.com/zalmoxisus/horizon-remotedev)

</comment><comment><USER5> This is precisely why I've been pushing for Redux even outside of the React ecosystem. I've been talking to quite a few people interviewing for ng2 projects... regardless of my opinions on ng2, something like Redux is probably a good idea for most projects (beyond trivial complexity, to relatively large).

</comment><comment><USER6> Redux may not be the greatest and the most innovative technology. But I love the community around it. Bringing always something new and progressing in steady pace.

<comment><USER7> IMHO, Redux introduced a gamechanging concept no other JS library has done before (at least not in this big way): Single and immutable state object. This fact alone makes the developer experience significantly better, both in shorter debugging time (and less bugs to begin with) and piece of mind that the code works as intended.

<comment><USER6> what about elm? didn't redux just take basic concepts from elm and implemented them in vanilla js? Not saying that Dan didn't do amazing work anyway.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Cool, reminds me of the Cycle.js dev-tool [0]. It lets you see a value pouring through your streams/observables and shows how it's mopified in each of them.

[0] [https://github.com/cyclejs/cyclejs/tree/master/devtool](https://github.com/cyclejs/cyclejs/tree/master/devtool)

</comment><comment><USER9> Has anyone here used Redux for very large applications? I'm curious if scales well beyond a few devs and 100 reducers and actions.

<comment><USER2> Yep, it absolutely does. See [http://redux.js.org/docs/faq/Performance.html#performance- sc...](http://redux.js.org/docs/faq/Performance.html#performance-scaling) for answers on that specific topic, as well as a list of some real apps and use stories at [https://github.com/markerikson/redux-ecosystem- links/blob/ma...](https://github.com/markerikson/redux-ecosystem- links/blob/master/apps-and-examples.md) .</comment></comment>


What is Google Wave good for? - <AUTHOR> http://www.zdnet.com.au/insight/software/soa/What-is-Google-Wave-good-for-/0,139023769,339299023,00.htm

<comment><USER2> To me, seeing articles like this only serves to remind myself I need to work on my information diet more.

</comment><comment><USER3> "Absolutely nothing...say it again!"

(bad joke, but also an article summary)

<comment><USER4> War! Huh!

(To actually contribute something to this previously useless posting(self); "What is it good for?" "Absolutely nothing" is from Edwin Starr's song "War". I think I first heard it in the movies "Rush Hour".. (Yes, I'm young I guess))</comment></comment>


Where are the Eyes? - <AUTHOR> https://eyes.daylightingsociety.org/ <comment><USER2> In France there is a similar project called "sous-surveillance" (under- surveillance) that maps cctv using Open Street Map: [https://www.sous- surveillance.net/](https://www.sous-surveillance.net/)

But the mobile app was not so good, it still can be found here: [https://github.com/kernel23/sous-surveillance- mobile](https://github.com/kernel23/sous-surveillance-mobile)</comment>


Mock interview while you wait for YC S18 invite/rejection - <AUTHOR> https://communities.metachat.com/communities/ycombinator <comment><USER2> Why should I have to sign up with my email for yet another service? :(

<comment><AUTHOR> Do you want to sign up with something else?

<comment><USER2> I wish you could sign up with your social media account or use more of a frictionless signup flow ala reddit or HN. The IRC 'signup' process (pick a name, start chatting) has always seemed to me the best option for messaging platforms, although it's not widely adoped.

<comment><AUTHOR> We used to have social logins but we ditched them for now, people want to chat pseudonymously. I would like to do the name only signup at some point. We currently use email to do: * password recovery * send people a summary about who got in after they have left the community

Ideally we would let people opt in to that last part. Then all we need is a way to secure access to your nick.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Afraid someone will steal your idea? - <AUTHOR> https://opensource.com/life/13/8/stealing-ideas

<comment><USER2> Ideas are a dime a dozen, what matters is an execution.</comment>


Ask HN: Why isn't Scala as popular on the HN front page as Haskell or Go? - <AUTHOR>

I thought it had all the components to be popular among hackers and web developers, did it simply pass its hype curve? or is there a specific reason why it's less popular among HN readers than let's say Haskell / Go? I love reading articles about Haskell and Go, and think they are wonderful languages, but is there something specific about Scala that makes it less popular among HN readers? <comment><USER2> With Haskell and Go you feel like you're part of some elite hacker community. With Scala you just feel simultaneously relieved and torn that you can functionally program on the JVM.

Also, the JVM is not an exciting environment.

 _Edit_ Also, which of these feels the most like you're workin' for the man?

[http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Haskell](http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Haskell) | [http://golang.org/](http://golang.org/) | [http://www.scala- lang.org/](http://www.scala-lang.org/)

<comment><USER3> I think JVM is very exciting environment : \- powerful (one of best performances in the VM world) \- lot's of libs/fmk \- easy to convince Enterprise to use it \- moving fast these lasts years...

So the ecosystem is quite interesting

Disclaimer : I program mainly with : scala, nodejs, haskell and java + frontweb

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> It seems that these things come and go in waves. I notice that one article gets posted which gets a lot of up-votes and then that article seems to spark off a lot more articles on the same subject.

I'm also guessing that if you were to actually come up with a list of all articles on the front page which are specific to the subject of programming languages, it would probably look a lot different than you think.

If Go is getting relatively frequent mentions, I would think it's because it's relatively approachable (I have never worked with Scala, but I'm assuming that Go is way more simple to install,) quick to learn and new toys such as Docker which has been on the front page a lot also gives Go a boost.

<comment><AUTHOR> Agree in general on the waves, but Scala's buzz days here was not easy to find. I went through HN search and looked for interesting Scala articles that got home page worthy amount of points, although I found a few good ones, didn't do a scientific research but it seems it never had its golden period here. Maybe it will have a comeback one day :)

p.s. Scala is relatively easy to install and get started with nowadays.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> I think it's because it's not a hipster language, but a language for pragmatic programmers - ie. people who don't want to be forced into single programming paradigm (like in Haskell, Closure), who want easy interaction with tons of existing JVM code/libraries (unlike in Go/Haskell), who value platform independence, who need good performance where necessary. This breed of developers (the "pragmatic" crowd) tend to focus more on just doing stuff and less on writing about it, hence less NH threads.

</comment><comment><USER6> We like the extremes, from clojure's metaproggraming, haskell's hipsterness, go's performance and lack of classes.

Scala isn't sexy, it's like coffeescript for java.

</comment><comment><USER7> Scala or Cloujre, just like Java will be used for not so exciting programming tasks, syntactic sugar won't help here.

<comment><AUTHOR> Respect your opinion, but Storm is not exciting? Hadoop? Solr? GWT? Android? Saying Scala or Clojure (or java) are not used for exciting tasks is dismissing all these projects as non exciting, which I have to disagree

<comment><USER8> I think the OP meant that when there is a job posting relevant to those [JVM] languages, it often means "yet another CRUD/Enterprise" stuff.

Although, Android did some diversification for Java programmers, right.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Go back and read (and watch the video of his talk -- it's engaging): [http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2008/06/rhinos-and- tigers.ht...](http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2008/06/rhinos-and-tigers.html)

</comment><comment><USER10> JVM

<comment><USER11> On the other hand, Clojure seems pretty popular over here.</comment></comment>


Memo to Stripe: Winning the hearts of Valley startups is not winning payments - <AUTHOR> https://pando.com/2014/01/24/memo-to-stripe-winning-the-hearts-of-valley-startups-is-not-winning-payments/ <comment><USER2> So, to put this all in context, a small ISO will do at least a billion in payment processing a month, and there are more than a few hundred small ISOs. If Stripe really isn't hitting anywhere near $1 billion a month, I'm not sure how they will maintain their ISO relationship with the platform they use (First Data, Elavon, Chase Paymentech, Tsys, etc) or their relationship with their underwriting bank.

You need a large volume to break even in this industry, and even more to turn a profit, hence why I'm shocked they haven't gone under due to lack of volume if they are really only doing $8 billion annually.</comment>