Show HN: Alt-tab-macos – Windows-style alt-tab on macOS - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/lwouis/alt-tab-macos <comment><USER2> I have never enjoyed the distinction between apps, app windows, and in app windows. 25 years of alt+tab/Ctrl+tab/cmd+tab and I still can never switch to the thing I want. My mind is stuck on one hotkey that I want to mean "switch back to the last thing I was looking at" but that doesn't work because if the last thing was another app or another tab or window in the same program then I would need a different key. My brain doesn't want to have to remember that. it just wants "back to the last active thing" whatever that thing was.

this bite me every day for 25 years . example on desktop. I switch tabs by clicking a tab. want to back to the last tab. I do the "one" action (cmd-tab) and get a different app instead of the last tab. so it's cmd-tab again and then click the tab. Sometimes I press cmd-tab multiple times before my brain realizes I need to click a tab.

I'm often switching between editor (or 2), terminal, browser, and apps so this idea that I have to always no the exact state I'm and deliberately consciously pick one of 3 different key combos to switch seems crazy to me.

The same thing happens on mobile. swipe up and pick previous window is my action to get back to the previous thing so when I want to switch back to the previous tab I always without fail by swiping up and then curse that the device didn't do what I want and instead I need to click the "display tabs icon". Again I'll be juggling multiple apps so the fact that the thing I want "go back to last thing" is inconsistent always mean the ux is failing me

<comment><USER3> Amen. OS app/window distinction sucks because the OS doesn't really know what users experience as an app. We might have a dozen apps open inside chrome, or the same IDE configured for two massively different tasks.

Now that users juggle not just multiple apps and windows, but tabs and accounts and devices, the OS should stop pretending it's privy to our workflow - or give us a better way to configure it.

<comment><USER2> I agree the OS doesn't know what the app is doing with it's tabs/windows but the OS could mandate that it tell the OS a list of things the user should be able to switch to and design the API in such a way that we'd get a LRU behavior.

I can dream haha.

Just tried turning on tab support in Witch but AFAIK it can't do LRU so it's not helpful (T_T)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Do people know about CMD+Tilde to switch windows within an app? CMD+Tab to the App and Tilde to the Window? It's not mentioned in the READMEs description of how macOS tab switching works, so I'm curious if the author knows.

<comment><AUTHOR> Author here.

I'm familiar with this. I have rebinded these, but basically I use them everyday for _tab_ switching, for example within 1 chrome window, of within 1 terminal window.

The reason I made this window-switcher is that sometimes I have something I know I opened a while ago, but I don't want to think about which app holds it, then use the macOS app-switcher (command-tab) to switch to that app, then select the tab/window (with the mouse, or by cycling alt-`).

I want a big mosaic with my windows, and instantly identify and focus on that window I remember the visual traits of.

macOS offers exposé for that purpose, but it is unfortunately not keyboard operable. Also I prefer the Windows approach of having a the thumbnails on a timeline so my eyes have some references instead of scanning the whole screen every time with exposé.

<comment><USER5> I love your app, but unfortunately Control+Tab is the same shortcut used system-wide to move between tabs. Could you add the ability to choose a custom shortcut?

<comment><USER6> +1 for this. Now my browser experience is broken. Or is there a way to remap tab switching shortcut in firefox? Seems silly to do that though.

Actually, alt+tab seems to do nothing on my macOS. Why not use that? I'd actually have the same shortcuts as on windows, which I also use.

I'd also love to adjust the delay. Seems very slow now.

Otherwise, this is beautiful.

<comment><USER5> Alt+tab would be amazing.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> I've been using hyperswitch [0] for ages which does something like that. The killer feature for me is to hide windows that are not on my current desktop. I have virtual spaces for social and chats and really don't want to ever see these windows when I'm on my programming space

0: [http://www.bahoom.com/hyperswitch](http://www.bahoom.com/hyperswitch)

<comment><AUTHOR> Author here.

I drew inspiration from HyperSwitch. Unfortunately, it is no longer maintained and is not free or OSS software, so I couldn't take over.

Specifically, I wanted to improve on some points:

* visual clarity * size of the thumbnails * size of the app icons

It's a shame it's not on github because the customization available through the preferences is great, and the product is great overall. It's one of those projects where I'm guessing the author is making no money and could release the code without any loss. He just probably forgot about it, unfortunately

<comment><USER8> I applaud this, I really do.

I'm also worried about HyperSwitch. When I converted to OSX half a decade ago, coming from Windows, this was the one app which I needed to be able to say "I can use this machine".

I can't comprehend how people otherwise can organize their things; it's just not my thing.

Also Tilde-Tab is the killer; Windows really missed out here.

I looking for a replacement for the same reason: the uncertainty of the future of this app.

The author seems to keep it alive, but it has (or had?) timebombs and once a year the author had to release a new patch version due to this.

I tried contact the author to throw money at it, to make sure I can have this as long as I use OSX, but he didn't really respond to that.

However, what can I say, I still prefer HyperSwitch (HS).

\- HS is much faster "coming up", this is essential for me. I want to quickly use this. Basically I configured HS to be instant, no delay. I can live with the flashes, actually doesn't really bother me \- HS supports CMD-Tab and Tilde-Tab; I need both. And in practice they work amazingly well for me. Tile- Tab is when I _strictly_ need to jump between in-app windows. CMD-Tab can do both, in fact. Jump between apps or within the same apps window.

Also CTRL-Tab hurts to hit combined with TAB.

Anyway, this was on my mind for some time and there was nothing where I could mention it to similar thinking people so I already apologize if this seems inappropriate as a feedback for the hard work you put into it!

thanks

<comment><AUTHOR> No worries, I appreciate your enthusiasm! I think all your feedback is addressed within this ticket: [https://github.com/lwouis/alt-tab- macos/issues/8](https://github.com/lwouis/alt-tab-macos/issues/8)

Subscribe to it to follow its implementation ;)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> I used to think I needed a third-party app for window switching in macOS, until I discovered Command + ` (back-tick) shortcut- which switches between windows of the sane app. Now I use it combination with Command + Tab and my workflow is so much easier. In fact, I wish Windows had this feature sometimes, but I do think Windows' window switching is better and more intuitive.

<comment><USER10> I don't use Mac, but do use Windows. This sounds like Windows' Alt+Tab (switches windows/apps) vs Ctrl+Tab (switches between tabs of an app). Is it not the same?

<comment><AUTHOR> * alt-tab on Windows is for finding a window within all apps. This is the one I cloned for macOS

* alt-` on macOS or ctrl-tab on Windows is to cycle between tabs/windows of the current app

* command-tab on macOS is to cycle between apps (the app will then elect which window to present the user)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> I'm excited to give this a try, though I wonder if there's a way to replace command tab with it instead of control tab.

This little bit of UX is seriously one of those things you notice in Windows, if you're primarily a Mac user, and go "holy shit, I'm missing out." Windows 10, faults aside, actually does have some pretty clever UI/UX in spots that I really wish Apple would just "steal," because it (MacOS) sort of feels like a one-button-hockey-puck-mouse sometimes.

<comment><USER12> Wait until you discover some basic features of KDE or Gnome (especially the former) on Linux then. Using KDE, both MacOS and Windows 10 feel like it's 2009 all over again, by comparison. I just don't understand why MS and Apple don't steal the best stuff, it's literally 'free' as in beer, and so much more important to a good UX compared to the slew of useless features both these commercial vendors keep on piling up...

Things like per-window or per-app settings:

\- borderless

\- opacity

\- default an app to a virtual desktop, position and size, even sub-types of windows (e.g. when you want children to appear in some designated place)

\- a few well-placed magnets (sides, center, other windows) to quickly resize 'perfectly' (my OCD loves it haha)

\- activities (more like a meta-organization, so powerful when switching tasks/context like home / work / hobby / etc.

\- custom shortcuts for anything (any of the above, launch any app, optionally with command-line options)

and so much more...

<comment><AUTHOR> For many of the things you list, you may want to have a look at [https://github.com/koekeishiya/chunkwm](https://github.com/koekeishiya/chunkwm)

<comment><USER12> Interesting! The active project (rewrite) moved here apparently: [https://github.com/koekeishiya/yabai](https://github.com/koekeishiya/yabai)

Just to piggyback on your interest:

My comments were more in the way of evangelizing Plasma (iirc KDE is the company, Plasma is their DE product), to share awesome features that I'd love to see generalized on all platforms.

In searching for a productive DE, provided you only want GUI config on the user side and can learn to juggle between 3-4 settings panels, Plasma beats them all.

Defaults are very close to Windows 10 (rather the other way around historically but whatever), with a touch of Linux twist here and there (magnet sides, feature-rich title bar menu, etc.)

The more advanced stuff is only necessary to maximize X (real estate, aesthetics, shortcut-driven controls...), some of it becomes invaluable over time.

I strongly encourage you to spend some time with KDE's Plasma, it's inspiring regarding the 'desktop paradigm' insofar as we just want to refine, not disrupt it (familiarity is a good thing for users imho).

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Despite the readme ("Fast"!), it's pretty sluggish for me. Mission Control is instantaneous, and this takes 1-2 seconds to display.

It also doesn't seem to support any form of drag-n-drop, which is (IMHO) the huge advantage of the Mac's command-tab and Mission Control. I can drag anything to anywhere, even if I'm not seeing its eventual target yet. Nor does it seem to support command-H/Q, or play well with Spaces.

It's cool that you made your own switcher, but in terms of everyday usability, this feels like it gives up a dozen features of the built-in one I use a hundred times a day, in exchange for one nifty new feature (view all windows + keyboard control).

<comment><AUTHOR> > it's pretty sluggish for me

Did you take into account the 200ms that's purposefully added? The behavior of alt-tab on windows is also: if you press fast (within 200ms) you don't get a UI but the switch will happen. After holding alt for > 200ms, the UI is displayed. Taking that into account, does the UI display after a delay significantly longer than 200ms? Please open a ticket if it does, with your hardware specs.

> It also doesn't seem to support any form of drag-n-drop

That's a great idea! Please open a ticket

> Nor does it seem to support command-H/Q, or play well with Spaces.

There are 2 tickets opened currently for these 2 things. Hopefully they get implemented soon

<comment><USER14> >if you press fast (within 200ms) you don't get a UI but the switch will happen

I always get the UI, no matter how fast I press the keys (W10 1903). This may have been different on previous versions.

<comment><USER15> XP and 98SE (I just started a VM to check) also don't have any delay, so I suspect that those who are seeing one are just experiencing some natural sluggishness rather than a deliberate delay.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> I also like Hyperdock: [https://bahoom.com/hyperdock](https://bahoom.com/hyperdock)

It makes the Dock have windows 7 style window previews. I don't know what I'd do without it. Perhaps cry.

<comment><USER17> Also does snapping, which I can't live without.

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> I use [https://contexts.co](https://contexts.co) for app switching as it supports fuzzy searching windows

<comment><AUTHOR> I considered using something like this, but as I explained in another comment ([https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21254984](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21254984)), I think visual matching beats other approaches. I think the few seconds it takes to think about which app owns the window, or what text could match the window, will be longer that directly looking and visually recognizing your window. Again, this opinion is not supported by research. You may want to experiment on yourself. It is also not only about speed but the comfort of each work-flow may differ for different people.

</comment></comment><comment><USER19> This is pretty awesome. Every time I end up using a Mac (normally someone else's) I always struggle with the multitasking experience. This looks a lot more familiar.

</comment><comment><USER20> It's an "old" feature, but I use "hot corners" -> mission control to switch windows: [https://simplymac.com/enjoying-hot-corners-on-your- mac/](https://simplymac.com/enjoying-hot-corners-on-your-mac/)

I usually use cmd-tab when I want to close down windows for the day.

<comment><USER21> You can press Q while using cmd tab to quit that app entirely without leaving the cmd tab interface, which is a fast way of cleaning up at the end of the day / when project switching.

(apologies if this was _precisely_ what you referring to, but commenting in case you meant you then closed each app individually with cmd q, then returned to the cmd tab interface)

A few other shortcuts for cmd tab: [http://osxdaily.com/2009/11/17/secrets-of- the-command-tab-ma...](http://osxdaily.com/2009/11/17/secrets-of-the-command- tab-mac-application-switcher/)

And on the off chance anyone reading this in Windows is also jonesing for a shortcut for closing lots of apps quickly:

Ctrl alt tab: opens persistent app switcher Ctrl w: closes the current program

</comment></comment><comment><USER22> Isn't just faster to use built in `ctrl + arrow` keys to manage this? You can also change shortcut.

<comment><USER23> Is this a way to switch between multiple windows of one app?

<comment><USER24> Shortcut to cycle through multiple (non-minimized) windows of one app, in either direction:

cmd + <

cmd + >

<comment><USER25> I tried these with MacOS Mojave and with Firefox having multiple windows open (not minimized).

Cmd + < opened up a new preferences tab on FF. Cmd + > did nothing.

<comment><USER24> Ah, the shortcut for this is keyboard layout specific: [https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/193937/shortcut- fo...](https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/193937/shortcut-for-toggling- between-different-windows-of-same-app)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> I use Witch by ManyTricks for this. I refused to get a mac until someone told me about it — I find switching to a program first and then to the correct window totally insane.

Witch is very configurable and pretty performant — once in a while it feels sluggish but generally it's quite good.

Interested to try this too!

<comment><USER27> That's Apple for you. They should have abandoned the dumb one-menu-for-all- apps idea with the OS X transition, but nope. That would entail learning.

Then again, they DID implement Command-Tab app switching from Windows... but managed to screw it up by not restoring the app from a minimized state when you switch to it.

<comment><USER28> All I read is "blah blah blah it's not exactly the same as Windows".

<comment><USER26> I'm sorry, you think not wanting to hit a large number of extra keys to go different app => desired window, or to have to navigate a chaotic mission control view with a mouse is just a "not exactly the same as windows" complaint?

This entire thread exists because of people who want mac os to have a better window switching pattern.

<comment><USER28> Actually, I was referring to this bit:

> but managed to screw it up by not restoring the app from a minimized state > when you switch to it.

"Screw up" is interesting wording. The implication is that macOS has a fault in it because its window management is (a) app-based and (b) therefore doesn't automatically unminimise _every_ window belonging to that app.

Imagine you had several windows minimised for a given app, switched to that app, and they all automatically swam back out of the Dock all in the name of emulating Windows.

Yeah, people might want a different window management system that isn't app- based, but that doesn't make the current system a "screw up" for not perfectly emulating other systems to which one may be more accustomed — namely Windows.

Just because people aren't familiar with it or don't see the benefits in it, nothing is "screwed up" because there isn't a slavish mimicry of the way Windows does things.

There _are_ those of us, believe it or not, who understand the macOS way of doing things and vastly prefer it. Yeah, we might not have the most valuable input in this discussion, but that still doesn't mean the macOS way is a "screw up".

That's the point I'm making.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER29> How great it would be if you could replace command-tab instead of adding control-tab? Neat idea, although I do prefer the command-tab, hold command, hit Q or M or H, continue holding command and hitting tab again, etc., of macOS standard switcher.

<comment><AUTHOR> Author here.

> replace command-tab instead of adding control-tab

Currently there is no UI to customize hotkeys. I have a ticket to frame work that can be done here: [https://github.com/lwouis/alt-tab- macos/issues/8](https://github.com/lwouis/alt-tab-macos/issues/8)

However, you can switch keys in the code and get this working today. In `Application.swift` at line 16, replace

      let metaKey = 0x3B
      let metaModifierFlag: NSEvent.ModifierFlags = .control

with

      let metaKey = 55
      let metaModifierFlag: NSEvent.ModifierFlags = .command

I tested, and it overrides the default macOS app-switcher, so no need to use something like Karabineer Elements which is what I use to disable the default app-switcher in addition to add the new control-tab hotkey shortcut.

> I do prefer the command-tab, hold command, hit Q or M or H, continue holding > command and hitting tab again

You can already hit control-tab then hold, and cycle with tab or shift-tab. What's missing is the option to hit Q/M/H.

I have a ticket to frame work that can be done here, inspired by the creative UI of another app called WindowSwitcher: [https://github.com/lwouis/alt-tab- macos/issues/9](https://github.com/lwouis/alt-tab-macos/issues/9)

<comment><USER30> Sorry, I don't use Xcode often. I made the change in the code you provided above in Xcode. But now, how do I export/build the app to then drag that into my "Applications" folder with this version of the app, where it uses command- tab?

EDIT: Google helped me out! If anyone else runs into the same thing, you do the dropdown in Xcode: Product > Archive > Distribute App (blue button) > "Copy App", and then that generates a folder with the newly created .app wherever you save it.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER31> I'm using HyperSwitch that has the same feature, only on alt-tab. But! It also replaces the cmd-backtick shortcut with a similar overlay for the current app's windows. I find that great, because the native Mac order of switching windows is bonkers, while HyperSwitch employs the last-used order.

The alt-tab feature in HS also has a flaw: if you switch to an app via the dock icon (or possibly by clicking on one of its windows), _all_ windows of that app become 'recently used' in the alt-tab menu. I'm guessing this might be a behavior of MacOS, and that you might run into the same problem.

<comment><AUTHOR> > The alt-tab feature in HS also has a flaw: if you switch to an app via the > dock icon (or possibly by clicking on one of its windows), all windows of > that app become 'recently used' in the alt-tab menu. I'm guessing this might > be a behavior of MacOS, and that you might run into the same problem

I'll test this, thanks for the heads up! Windows recently used order comes from the OS in my current implementation (I'm not spying on the whole system and keeping track; the OS is giving me a list of most-recent first windows). That may indeed affect my app too

</comment></comment><comment><USER32> Oh ppl, you don't know what you have until you lose it! I am unfortunately on Windows, and I miss CMD+Tab and CMD+Tilde style of switching so much. It's vastly superior in terms of reducing cognitive load.

<comment><USER33> Are you familiar with all the Windows Button shortcuts?

Win+# changes to that application in the task bar (Win+1 is the app nearest the start button, etc). That lets you develop a lot of muscle memory for switching between apps if you pin things to the taskbar; for me Win+1 is always my browser, Win+2 is file explorer, and so on. Win+Up maximizes a window, Win+Left/Right docks to half the screen, Win+Shift+Left/Right moves a window between monitors.

</comment></comment><comment><USER34> Odd what things people seem to have issues with. I've never had any problem with application and window management on either platform, be it keyboard based or mouse based.

I suppose for some people there has to be 'one true way' of managing windows and applications and every other way that isn't their way is automatically no good. But for me that hasn't really been the case. I like some versions more than others, but it doesn't really affect the way I work or the efficiency I work at.

</comment><comment><USER35> I'm not sure what your talking about alt-` switches between app windows. The windows switcher is dreadful, it clumps all your windows in sorted and you can't easily swap back and forth between two apps. On macOS, command tabbing nicely flips back and forth between the last used window. Windows never seems to make it easy to switch in my opinion.

</comment><comment><USER36> Great, it'll be immensely useful for me. I would appreciate more if the layover looked more like macOS. Currently the corners are too sharp compared to the macOS default ones, and the text is white compared to the less standing-out grey.

Nonetheless, the idea is great and I think I'll switch to it right away!

</comment><comment><USER37> I like this idea a lot, just tried it now however and the UI is a bit too slow for how fast I like to switch between apps, espically on multiple desktops - takes about a second to show up and swaps to the active monitor instead of staying on the main like command+tab does. Will follow this!

<comment><AUTHOR> For the slowness, could you please check my reply here: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21256353](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21256353)

For the active monitor issue, I have never tested on multi-monitors (I personally switched back to single-monitor after years of multi). Could you please open a ticket? It may be an easy update

</comment></comment><comment><USER38> Mission Control dashboard + Reduce motion accessibility setting = the best window switcher

<comment><AUTHOR> Unfortunately Mission Control is not keyboard-accessible :/

</comment></comment><comment><USER39> Wow! I remember when Windows users would try to put Apple-style features on Windows. (Interestingly, the "dock" was first on Windows, with StarDock, etc, before OSX had theirs).

<comment><USER27> Meanwhile, Mac users STILL don't get a real Delete key; they get a Backspace key mislabeled "delete."

<comment><USER28> It's been called Delete on Macs since day 1. What you call the 'Delete' key, Mac users call 'Forward Delete'.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER40> I've been using HyperSwitch [1] and _love_ it, but will give this a look...

[1] [https://bahoom.com/hyperswitch](https://bahoom.com/hyperswitch)

</comment><comment><USER41> [https://github.com/numist/Switch](https://github.com/numist/Switch) was a very similar app made a few years ago.

</comment><comment><USER5> How do you change the delay for showing the UI?

> Delay before showing the UI to avoid flashing (default 200ms)

What's flashing?

Have you thought about enabling going backwards by pressing ` while control is held down?

<comment><USER42> I believe OP means that if you press Alt+Tab and release the keys quickly, it'll simply swap to the last window without showing ("flashing") any UI overlay at all.

<comment><USER15> The Windows one doesn't --- at least on XP, that is; Alt+Tab causes the switch window to show up the instant it's pressed.

The delay may be the reason others here are noticing that it's "slow".

<comment><USER43> Neither does the switcher on Windows 10.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER44> Is OS 9 single-app mode still an option on Mojave+? It used to work a few versions ago with a hidden setting, but doesn't seem to work like that anymore.

</comment><comment><USER45> If I can emulate MacOS workspace shortcuts on Windows, I would use it a lot more.

Muscle memory is sometimes a curse.

</comment><comment><USER12> I'm curious, why copy from Windows 10 instead of e.g. KDE (Plasma) which has so much more features and such a better UX overall?

<comment><AUTHOR> When I was on Linux I always used i3, so I'm not familiar with KDE. Could you please elaborate on these extra features and how the UX is better?

<comment><USER46> Different strokes for different folks I guess.

Personally I love KDE (install Neon, mostly leave it alone, as it os perfect for me).

Other people will be happy with KDE because they can customize it to their hearts content. You can even make KDE look and work like MacOS if you want.

Other people (notably a number here on HN) will immediately start commenting about how there are too many options in KDE and how the developers should rather fix some jarring alignment issues that people like me cannot see.

Don't worry too much about us KDE users. You've already made my day better just by trying to fix one of the things that made me give up Mac after three years of trying.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER47> That's funny. I wrote a utility to bring macOS-style window switching for Windows 10 a few years ago: [https://neosmart.net/blog/2017/easy-window- switcher/](https://neosmart.net/blog/2017/easy-window-switcher/)

(Don't worry, it's still updated and maintained.)

Also submitted as another Show HN, somewhat tongue-in-cheek, because why not? [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21255305](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21255305)

<comment><USER48> thanks I've been looking for something like this. once you understand the cmd- tab, cmd-` behaviour from macos, you realize microsoft made the wrong ui decision with their alt-tab.

<comment><USER49> This is certainly not the realization that I have reached.

To me, "app" is an arbitrary grouping that I don't really care about. I have little mental projects in my head with a couple of windows related to them. That could be a browser window and an instance of vscode. The fact that I might have another set of windows that happen to use those same apps doesn't mean that I want them to pollute my z-index when switching back and forth.

Yes, I know about spaces or multiple desktops or whatever but for some reason those don't sit will with me.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> How about fixing the problem where Apple doesn't restore the minimized app when you switch to it?

Kind of defeats the purpose of tabbing through apps in the first place, when you leave it minimized in the dock after you switch to it.

DUHHHH Apple.

<comment><USER34> That's what hide is for. cmd+h hides the app+windows, going back to it immediately restores all of it.</comment></comment>


Don't be Evil-ish? - <AUTHOR> https://www.ctothink.com/episodes/2018-04-03-16.html <comment><AUTHOR> Where do you draw the line on ethics? How do you take a stand when you want to keep your job? This week, we discuss ethical behavior and the responsibility people have regarding it.</comment>


Oracle to Acquire BEA Systems - <AUTHOR> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080116/ap_on_hi_te/oracle_bea;_ylt=Ak6D_h57jgug.rFI2z5WGDas0NUE

<comment><USER2> I remember when the original offer from Oracle came out in october. The company I was working for then had an Oracle database and had just switched app-servers from Tomcat to Weblogic, so the idea of both coming under the same banner was not an unpleasent one.

Oracle's been doing a lot of acquisitions recently. I wonder who's next on their laundry list.</comment>


Show HN: Social Network for Indie Musicians & Fans - <AUTHOR> http://hitkarma.com

<comment><AUTHOR> Still in beta. Just recently soft-launched this week.</comment>


The Official Ruby Site Is Proudly Maintained by No-One - <AUTHOR> http://www.rubyinside.com/official-ruby-site-not-so-good-5248.html

<comment><USER2> As one of the maintainers of the german version of ruby-lang.org/de, I think that the article fails to explain the scope of ruby-lang and the pain to maintain it. Ruby is - much more then other programming languages - internationally spread (japan/western world being the greatest divide). At the moment, there are 20 translations (released and unreleased) of the site, which means that all new content has to be introduced to the site and then translated and maintained by the corresponding teams. So the scope of the site has to be small, nothing compared to php.net or the like.

First of all: not all of these problems are present in other versions of the site. The german page for example is much more up-to-date when it comes to installation options and explaining them, also when it comes to announcements about the german ruby community. The german site is also well staffed with 3 maintainers (if I remember correctly).

I would have preferred if ruby-inside would have wrote a mail to the maintainer list before posting this: usually, problems that we are aware of get fixed quickly.

ruby-lang certainly has its problems and the post hits some of them, but it is far from unmaintained.

The positive effect of this post: a bunch of new volunteers applying.

<comment><USER3> _The positive effect of this post: a bunch of new volunteers applying._

This is exactly it.

I _know_ I'm a loudmouth playing with his megaphone here, but my intentions are good and I'm pointing to things that, I believe, people would _like to fix_ , if only they had the spotlight for a bit. If I can help that process without greatly offending anyone, I'll use my megaphone. I gain nothing from pissing people off without reason.

I didn't get in touch with anyone because I don't have the diplomatic skills to negotiate significant changes to the site, and small patches won't fix the _systemic_ problems with the site (How much negotiation would it take even just to have the official blog posts written properly by a third party? And I already do it anyway, on my own site.) I readily admit I'm a unilateralist who tries to be in charge at most opportunities. This makes me a reasonable entrepreneur, but definitely not the ideal candidate to work in a team to update a community site :-)

Thanks for reminding me of the localized versions. I was aware of their presence but had/have little idea of what they're doing. I can't say I support the idea of an EU-like 20 way translation for every change but that's just my opinion, and I have the utmost respect for local teams trying their best to maintain the site in their own language.

<comment><USER2> I am not "offended", but I think the effect could be much improved by at least hearing the guys actually working on the site first - not negotiating, but collect their problems as well. Yes, there are many problems - but they are not that there are not enough editors or none of them cares. For example, we would happily announce every tiny conference on the site and could also do that, if organizers would just send us a short note. I think most of us would do with a link and write the article themselves. Instead, there are major conferences that seem to be announced on twitter only. What I cannot and do not want to do (I am also tending for a german ruby portal next to this job) is actively scrape the interwebs for such information.

Also, there is no-one who takes stewardship of the technical part of the site - the "popular projects" widget that is still backed by an effectively dead site (rubyforge) is one of them. This is not a unique problem: rubygems.org has similar problems of finding people to implement/change features. This would be important.

When it comes to languages: I am not sure whether 20 languages is okay, but I am quite proud that we do actually have non-english sites and can link to non- english resources. I reckon that the japanese community likes it as well. As long as there is someone pouring its time into it, i'm fine with it - and its actually not working as bad as it seems.

My biggest problem is that the Ruby community is big on decentralization and no one cares about dragging stuff back together. For example, there are at least 2 people managing great documentation indices (ruby-doc.org and rubydoc.info) that wouldn't have evolved if we had integrated the docs into the main site. What I would really enjoy would be a team that tries to organize that forest a bit and maybe direct efforts of volunteers.

<comment><USER3> I can't disagree with you and it sounds like you might have enough background knowledge to lead such an effort if you had the time and inclination to do so.

I've merely noticed a problem and I'm pointing it out. I readily admit I am also not the person to fix it, much like Jon Stewart couldn't fix the American political system, yet still he points out its flaws. Would you expect him to write letters to Fox News before picking on them? I'm no comedian but I'm taking a similar approach. If the only option is to write e-mails and have long winded discussions, I'd choose to do nothing instead.

 _My biggest problem is that the Ruby community is big on decentralization and no one cares about dragging stuff back together._

Yes. As you note, this is both a problem _and_ a benefit, in some cases. Perhaps, then, any sort of "official" Ruby site should focus solely on linking out to up to date third party resources rather than (poorly) maintaining its own.

And, again, I must stress that it seems the localization teams have been doing some great work and deserve recognition for this. My points rest entirely with the "main" English language site.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> The article may be seen as a comprehensive list of what not-TO-DO for a project's site.

<comment><USER5> Yeah, Ruby's website is awful. Even Ruby on Rails' website is pretty bad. They don't make it look nearly as awesome as it actually is.

<comment><USER6> As an outsider, I think RubyonRails.org is doing a pretty good job.

The install instructions are pretty good, links to documentation and books are good, the screencasts are kept up to date and are IMHO awesome, the blog is active.

What else could you want? I mean, yeah, the Rails Guides could use some more effort as I found them lacking, but it's a lot better than nothing at all (as it used to be).

<comment><USER3> I don't think rubyonrails.org is too bad, but it could still do with some updates. For example, it doesn't recommend railsinstaller.org to the Windows folks, even though that's the quickest, one-shot way to install the entire Rails and Ruby stack on Windows.

And I don't think linking to a tarball with the Ruby source should be the _first_ link to getting Ruby.. there are tutorials they could link to that would be more useful to newcomers.

Nonetheless, rubyonrails.org is better updated than ruby-lang.org in any case, and provides a better model to follow IMHO.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> I suspect it's because Ruby hackers like to write modules, not document or maintain websites.

<comment><USER8> Also it's hard to write good documentation and lots of hackers probably won't have the necessary skill set. However documentation is important and the more you work at it the better and easier it gets.

<comment><USER9> The Ruby documentation is at ruby-doc.org rather than ruby-lang.org.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Doesn't seem to be commented on by anyone, either. Oops, damn!</comment>


Maybe you can't make money doing what you love - <AUTHOR> http://sethgodin.typepad.com/seths_blog/2008/10/maybe-you-cant.html

<comment><USER3> You have to also love making money. I love making money. By definition, it is impossible for me to become unhappy if I have to make money doing what I love. /obvious.

I had a girlfriend like this: she was an excellent photographer, had a degree in fine arts with a photography specialty, but didn't want to make money doing it -- she didn't want it to become her job. This discrepancy made her miserable, not only because she generally didn't get to take pictures, and didn't get to make the money she could be making, but also because she wasn't using her degree.

I went to school for CS, not because I love it (though I do at times) but because the market forecast was good, and I wanted to retire early. What I like about programming is the freedom to innovate, to solve problems. I get to solve problems, solve puzzles with my job. That's great. When I get done working, I'll write a book -- that'll be even better.

I think it's enough to work doing something you like, to support what you love.

</comment><comment><USER4> This is another example of Seth's cookiecutter gurudom. I don't think it applies to startups at all, though.

Also, stop rehashing the same old, 'If you commercialize your art, it stops being satisfying' BS. We knew that forever ago. I think in the connected universe it is easy to to do something you love on the side AND make money from it AND be happy doing it. Like that guy who makes $2k/yr because he sold some photos to iStockphoto 10 years ago.

Not to bring ad hominem into this, but why has Seth become so un-original?

<comment><USER5> "become"?

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> _In order to monetize your work, you'll probably corrupt it, taking out the magic in search of dollars._

The great artists of the Renaissance were very highly paid. In fact they were probably the best paid craftsmen of the time. And they are hard to beat for magic.

<comment><USER7> It's very well documented that rewards diminish both intrinsic motivation and creativity, so this is mostly a moot point. But for the sake of argument:

A) The psychological effect of working for a church/patron is probably not analogous to, say, trying to produce a blog post that makes the front page of Digg. To borrow from Herzberg's two-factor theory, their patronage was more of a hygiene factor than a motivation factor.

B) You're only looking at the best pieces from the best artists. It's likely that the average artist was producing mostly shit in hopes of getting paid. In fact probably even the best artists were producing mostly shit in hopes of getting paid.

<comment><USER6> _It's likely that the average artist was producing mostly shit in hopes of getting paid. In fact probably even the best artists were producing mostly shit in hopes of getting paid._

The great artists couldn't _bring_ themselves to produce shit, any more than great people in any field ever can. Show me an example of shit made by Leonardo or Van Eyck or Brueghel.

 _It's very well documented that rewards diminish both intrinsic motivation and creativity_

In studies where they offer one group of undergrads money to complete some random task and another group does it for free? Things work differently at the other end of the expertise spectrum.

<comment><USER7> "In studies where they offer one group of undergrads money to complete some random task and another group does it for free?"

The studies are pretty wide ranging. For example, people paid to wear their seatbelts are less likely to do so. People who are offered money if they lose weight are less successful, and are more likely to gain even more weight. If teachers are offered money if their students improve on a test, the students will do worse on the test. Students who study something in an attempt to get a good grade will have a more superficial understanding of the material than they would otherwise.

"Things work differently at the other end of the expertise spectrum."

Maybe that's true once your work is at the genius level and you don't need any more external validation, but even if so how do you get there? If you've been mastering your craft for twenty years and then you're offered money it might not be damaging, if done right, but being offered money too soon may well harm the average person.

"The great artists couldn't bring themselves to produce shit, any more than great people in any field ever can."

George Lucas.

<comment><USER8> There is debate about the impact of reward on motivation. Motivation is a complex thing. <http://www.physorg.com/news4126.html>

"George Lucas"

I think that George Lucas has very aptly demonstrated that he is not a great artist. He got lucky with Star Wars. With his next two movies he had the sense to let someone else direct. Then he let the success go to his head.

<comment><USER7> _"There are many children for whom the important reward to them is the grades they get, the competition among classmates," Reiss said. "This goes against what some psychologists say, who think competition is bad and a non- competitive attitude is good, and that learning and curiosity are intrinsic values that everyone shares. They are pushing their own value system on to everybody."_

That last sentence is extremely disingenuous.

I would be like to read the his original argument though.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> I think Hugh MacLeod's _How To Be Creative_ gives this subject a better treatment. I haven't forgotten the very simple "Sex & Cash Theory." Creative people need two jobs: one is sexy, and one pays the bills.

</comment><comment><USER10> I think there's some kind of implicit sentiment that the happiness from doing something you enjoy and getting paid are additive when you do something you enjoy. I'm not sure that's true.

I love computers, UNIX/Linux, scalable architectures, yadda yadda yadda. I work in the field, and am reasonably well compensated, but I've always said "I'd keep doing computers even if I was the one paying."

Doing something you're passionate about for someone else (whether your customer is a manager, or you're self employed and your customer is the one paying) isn't inherently pleasurable if the customer's goals aren't perfectly aligned with yours -- in fact it can be deeply saddening to know there's a better way to accomplish something, if only some business reality (cost, technical constraint) wasn't in the way.

For me, the big win working in my favorite field is that the job is easy -- I have a great pool of contacts, I've spent over 80% of my entire life immersed in the problems and solutions of this field. That said, I'm pretty sure I'd enjoy computing a lot more again if I went back to bagging groceries -- 100% of the computing I'd do would be computing for pleasure, no more chores or building stuff for people that have needs that are different than mine.

</comment><comment><USER11> "That passion you have for art... perhaps making your painting commercial enough to sell will squeeze the joy out of it."

Once you cross the line of doing something to pay the bills, instead of doing it for the joy of doing it, then it becomes work. And, work, ultimately sucks.

<comment><USER12> I was trying to figure out when a hobby I love turns into something I hate, and you just nailed it for me. _Needed_ to pay bills = work.

It also becomes work once you believe you have to turn your hobby into something that makes money (because everyone - especially this site - <USER2> you to find your passion and then make money from it).

Some pursuits are better left intrinsicly rewarding.

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> I have a feeling Seth Godin loves what he does for money.

</comment><comment><USER14> I think he misses the real problem. It is easier to be noticed. It is easier to get "picked up". However, it's easier for everyone, which means that the supply of niche content is radically increasing... and when supply increases, the price drops. In the end, the key is _still_ to move from niche to large, and we've moved from "like winning the lottery" under the old system to... "like winning the lottery" under the new system, too. The barrier of entry is lower, but it's even more random behind the barrier.

</comment><comment><USER15> First "grow the economy" and now "surface your ideas". Ugh.

<comment><USER16> Classic Godin.

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> I mostly agree with most of the comments, especially since Seth oversimplifies, but he has a point. I know a couple of people who loved painting and graphic design, but lost all love for it when it became a career, so they switched to another career and started enjoying design again. It wasn't that they couldn't make money from design, but making it a career took the joy and creativity out of it.

HN might just skewed towards those lucky few who are able to make money from things they love. Personally, if I am not doing something I love, it's not worth it.

</comment><comment><USER18> Two quotable quotes: "Work does not necessarily make you happy, but it may provide you the money to do the things that make you happy."

"If all you get from your job is a paycheck, you're underpaid"

I don't think it's a trade-off if you don't love your job. However, if you truly hate your job - why are you doing it?

I was a workaholic for the longest time and I still am - I am re-applying my workaholic tendencies to outside-the-cube. Software development bankrolls ventures like learning Spanish and Salsa dancing.

</comment><comment><USER19> In some fields doing what you love won't pay your bills. But haven't you noticed that usually people that do what they love they are really good at it? And you keep wondering how he/she does it? A lot of people choose to work in a field that maybe it doesn't suits them or maybe because they have to because of the trends, but be sure that one day they will end up miserable and with no time to do what they really love because time may have passed.

</comment><comment><USER20> There are plenty of careers that meld creativity and commercial gains, like being an architect or interior designer. Don't you think an architect takes pride in seeing one of their buildings standing against the skyline?

Sure, you might not get rich making splatter paintings, but you can still be creative and make money at the same time. People will pay for things that are aesthetically pleasing.

<comment><USER21> Architects don't make much money. And within the field, there is strong inverse correlation between prestige of the job and the pay. Some of the most prestigious New York firms actually pay their employees less than minimum wage. And I'm not talking about interns - I'm talking full time employees with masters in architecture getting paid virtually nothing. On the flip side, if an architect does project management for construction, they get paid a lot more.

</comment></comment><comment><USER22> I'm a pop musician, and I put out a few records, but I found that once committed to vinyl (not necessarily with the medium of CD-R), I got bored with those songs and couldn't enjoy them anymore. Vinyl is the most long-lasting medium for music, so this act of your music going on permanent art is more satisfying than the music itself.

</comment><comment><USER23> _"Ars gratia artis"_

Explains why great artists lived poor financially. But there are always who bring in the _genius of AND_ with art meets living (commercial). They ofcourse are geniuses.

<comment><USER22> Or just get a good manager.

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> Yeah, but more than likely you can do something doing what you like.

</comment><comment><USER24> I read it as: "Produce great content for free and let Google make money off it." Does Seth see the conflict of interest? Or is it the actual reason behind the post?

</comment><comment><USER25> if you're going to make a living at it, it helps to find a niche where money flows as a regular consequence of the success of your idea

as soon as you focus on your art and leave the money behind, you may just discover that this focus turns out to be the secret of actually breaking through and making money.

thats the meat of the articles, overall good ideas..

</comment><comment><USER26> My thoughts on this : <http://www.web2media.net/laktek/?p=90>

</comment><comment><USER27> Being successful is key and money is an addon.</comment>


Test can show if the speed of light has changed - <AUTHOR> https://www.engadget.com/2016/11/27/test-for-change-in-speed-of-light/ <comment><USER2> 1 meter is defined as the distance travelled by light in 1 / 299,792,458 seconds. Doesn't this mean that "light slowing down" would be indistinguishable from "space expanding"?

</comment><comment><USER3> Continuous Intrgration for the universe. Interesting.

<comment><USER4> Well it doesn't really tell whether it's changed from a moment ago. Rather whether it was much faster when the cosmic microwave background radiation was emitted, almost at the beginning of the Universe.</comment></comment>


Heartbleed Bug's 'Voluntary' Origins - T-A http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303873604579495362672447986

<comment><AUTHOR> The article seems to suggest that there is something unreasonable about Stephen Henson's "Before you email me..." page on his website, which is here: [http://www.drh-consultancy.demon.co.uk/contact.html](http://www.drh- consultancy.demon.co.uk/contact.html)

It turns out that the way that he "compares his responsibilities to those of Bill Gates when he managed Microsoft" is by stating:

 __The occasional person sends this query to both mailing lists (in almost all cases only one mailing list is appropriate) and when they do not get an immediate response email the entire core and development team. Presumably this is the same kind of person that emails Bill Gates whenever they have a Windows problem. __

Emailing open source developers who you do not know at their personal email addresses is rarely appropriate when a public mailing list for the project exists. The tone is a little prickly but what Henson says seems reasonable to me.

</comment><comment><USER2> I hate articles like this. They're so one sided. Here's a money quote: "Errors in complex code are inevitable". Even the headline sets the same tone and calls the flaw a "fluke". Oops, this programming stuff is hard, be thankful that it "works" at all.

Bullshit. There's something that was left unsaid in the article, specifically "best practices". Why wasn't the length validated at all? There's nothing new or "complex" about simple defensive programming. How can anyone (even a part timer) working on software that's so security critical be so clueless? Forget about more obscure stuff like the full disclosure mailing list, just reading CERT alerts should make this abundantly clear to anyone in security. Hell, the xkcd cartoon [1] makes it abundantly clear. If you can't take that cartoon to heart, you have _no_ business writing Internet facing software.

I think Marco Peereboom got it right oh so many years ago when he said that OpenSSL was written by monkeys. [2]

However, the article does get something right. It's insane that something so critical to internet commerce is essentially a hobby project by a few people mostly in their spare time. That's not simply crazy, that's totally fucking insane. That's the biggest takeaway of this entire fiasco.

[1] [http://xkcd.com/327/](http://xkcd.com/327/) [2] [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7556407](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7556407)

<comment><USER3> _Bullshit. There 's something that was left unsaid in the article, specifically "best practices"._

If the NTSB used the "best practices" mantra like the software industry did, then there would be no stick shakers, ground proximity warnings, and collision avoidance systems. Thousands more would be dead without such automation. It's amazing that the _software_ industry so often responds to such problems by saying we programmers should do one more thing, and do it consistently without fail. (Then no concrete steps are taken.) Aren't programs better suited to such tasks? We should be using languages or libraries that are memory-safe and give us automatic means of avoiding timing attacks.

When we in the software industry fix widespread safety issues, our answer shouldn't be, "we should've done X, those people are to blame for not doing X, let's all just do it from here on out." If we were fire marshals, there would be no mandatory fire alarms, emergency exits, and occupancy regulations. Instead we'd "tsk tsk" and talk about how those poor victims were "doing it wrong."

If governments were exploiting this bug, they were doing the opposite of what they should've been doing: fixing it once and for all. I've read several users comment that an Ada implementation of TLS would avoid the same class of errors entirely.

<comment><USER2> > Aren't programs better suited to such tasks?

You're absolutely right. "Wetware" is highly imperfect; widespread adoption of better tools is essential.

> I've read several users comment that an Ada implementation of TLS would > avoid the same class of errors entirely.

I don't know Ada, but at least according to Wiki it is much more suitable for this sort of programming [1] than using C. So why isn't Ada more popular? Perhaps its time has passed? I do see frequent mention here on HN of other, more recent languages with similar goals.

[1] [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ada_%28programming_language%29#...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ada_%28programming_language%29#Features)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> I struggle to work out the tone here :

it varies from "My god we are all dependant on half a dozen volunteers" to "why doesn't someone pay these guys?" to "what a bunch of fools - we cannot all use the same code"

<comment><USER3> All using the same code would've been smart -- if everyone who depended on that code had been actively aware and contributing to their own rational self interest. Like so many others, I just took it for granted and assumed the OpenSSL guys knew what they were doing. Putting all your eggs in one basket isn't necessarily foolish, if it's some kind of armored, padded, exquisitely engineered basket. It is, if it's a rickety volunteer-made basket.

<comment><USER5>
      Like so many others, I just took it for granted and
      assumed the OpenSSL guys knew what they were doing.

While the mantra "don't work on your own security code, you'll get it wrong, use a library instead" is generally good advice for programmers, I imagine it makes it harder for the libraries to recruit contributors.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> >Last decade, Steve Marquess, a former U.S. Defense Department consultant living in Maryland, started the OpenSSL Software Foundation to secure donations and consulting contracts for the group.

That's kind of like a former Christian preacher living in Alabama raising money for Planned Parenthood.

<comment><USER7> >That's kind of like a former Christian preacher living in Alabama raising money for Planned Parenthood.

Courageous and admirable, you mean?</comment></comment>


ASK HN: Need feedback on my SaaS for editing HTML themes - <AUTHOR> After 2 weeks on coding, I just released Themepage, a SaaS I originally built to easily edit the HTML themes I bought on Envato and other marketplaces.
Feedback is always a gift so please do not hesitate to test and send me any question/advice. https://themepage.co<p>Kimbak <comment><USER2> 1) The checkbox on the registration form to agree to the terms of service is very difficult to see

2) Should display somewhere the requirements for the password, annoying to submit a form and then to be told the password doesn't meet the requirements

3) When I try to select all the text in the edit context popup in closes the popup

4) "Free version allows you to edit a maximum of 30 contents" you should really mention this somewhere

5) When I'm editing a page how can I go back to the main menu

6) Search doesn't seem to work on the index page, there is a page called privacy-policy and when I search for policy no results get returned, need to do contains instead of starts with

7) Notifications don't disappear after an action has been completed "Page was successfully updated!"

8) Maybe have a recycle bin that deletes after 30 days incase you delete something by mistake

9) On the signin page it says "Welcome back bla bla"

10) "Simple CMS for any purchased html themes" what if you got a free html theme ..

11) Maybe to have a bit of a story why you created this tool

12) "Better for collaboration Invite teammates to work on the content with you." can two people simultaneously work on the same document ? If not what's going to happen if two people are editing the document at the same time

Maybe you could sign up to the IndieHackers website to get more feedback and potential customers

<comment><AUTHOR> Thank you so much. Much appreciated. This is a so valuable feedback.

10) Already changed :)

I'll implement other suggestions asap.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> Usually I would not do the "Sign up to try it" dance, but for a fellow HNler .. ok. (But I already didn't like you that much anymore :))

But then I had to do free work for Google by tagging photos as fire hydrants and crosswalks. After a while I got tired of that and said "Fuck you! I hate you!" without even getting to your product.

<comment><AUTHOR> Hahaha. Sorry for me ... and Google then :)) Anyway, than you for this feedback !

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Apologies in advance:

* If you used `outline` instead of `border` to indicate editable elements, that'd fix the annoying 'content moves by 2px every time I hover over something' problem.

* Editing in a modal instead of inline directly in the page feels very dated.

* There's at least one content block in your sample that isn't editable -- the 2nd para on the "Terms and Conditions" page contains a link that can be edited but the rest fo the text can't. Suggests that your parser for finding editable chunks of content is a bit fragile.

* Yes, after uploading some sample HTML, I see your parser is unusably fragile; any nested element at all (including simple text styling) will break your tool and make the element uneditable; only leaf nodes can be edited with your tool. (Also my uploaded file isn't editable; it shows the hover highlights but nothing happens when I click on them.)

* (I uploaded an extra index.html into the sample website. Now it has two index.htmls in it! Not sure how that will work out on download....)

* It can only edit text. Not links, not images, not layout, not anything else. Even if you're aiming for the most technophobic of customers they're still going to want more control than you're giving them.

The only real value-add you have here is in parsing existing HTML and allowing nontechnical people to change the text nodes inside it -- at minimum you'll need to improve how you identify editable nodes _substantially_ before this can be considered at all usable for purpose.

<comment><USER4> Ooh, ok, now I realize users can also replace images under some circumstances. User-uploaded images are hosted at publicly-accessible URLs, which makes it likely you'll be inadvertently hosting some unsavory content before too long.

There are also a number of hiccups and contradictions on your pricing page, and quite a few things listed there that don't appear to be represented in your (current) offering...

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> I don't understand it. I can modify the content of a page easily, but there's no option to change the theme. For example, I tried changing the hero title text from blue to red, and there wasn't any way to do that. Calling the product 'themepage' implies you can change, well, the theme.

<comment><AUTHOR> I should have spent more time on choosing the right name :))) I just took the first name that came to my mind.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> It looks really great! I was only able to look at one page before having to get back to work, but I have a couple of things:

1) On `[https://themepage.co/pricing`](https://themepage.co/pricing`) in the `free` plan you write both "1 websites" and "1 user(s)". I'd say get rid of the 's's and the parens in the free plan, and then get rid of the parens in the other plans (obviously keeping the 's's.

2) On `[https://themepage.co/pricing`](https://themepage.co/pricing`) you write `Support : Help center` where it should be `Support: Help center` and similarly for the `Support: HC+email`

3) On `[https://themepage.co/pricing`](https://themepage.co/pricing`) your email of "email@example.com" should either be a "mailto:" link or minimally text I can copy and paste.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thank you bszupnick! Pricing page updated!

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> Looks like you have some XSS issues in the editor; for example changing text to "<script>alert(3)</script>"

<comment><AUTHOR> Thank you. Issue is now solved.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> You need to provide us a way to test it without registering.

<comment><USER9> I agree with this. And as others have said, you can just enter junk info. To get more reliable info from users I would suggest that you ask for their info and if they want to register when they want to export their site. The only way to export would be the link via an email if you are not registered and using the service for free.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thank you. This is a great feedback. I need to tweak my framework for that. I'll definitely look at this.</comment></comment></comment>


For Software Developers, A Bounty Of Opportunity - <AUTHOR> http://www.npr.org/2011/09/05/140194803/for-software-developers-a-bounty-of-opportunity

<comment><USER2> People who think they can seduce a developer with a beer cabinet and a fuseball table don't deserve to get good developers.

What developers really want - and what they never get - is power, not free beer and a crappy football table. Power to decide what they are going to work on, power to decide what tools they want to use, power to decide whether they want to use a waterfall approach or the ubiquitous soul-destroying agile way.

One time developers were almost fully in charge of software projects. Nowadays, they are at the bottom of the wrung, further from the decision making process for software products than anyone else.

Give us some power over our work and maybe we'll think about working for you.

<comment><USER3> All I want is sane management and sane schedules.

<comment><USER4> The easiest way to get these is either to be in control of them yourself or for your manager to have an engineering pedigree (i.e. be a more senior developer) rather than just a manager by career.

<comment><USER5> Or a non-technical manager that trusts your judgement.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> If you are young and recently graduated with computer science you are hot in Boston. If you've been around a while and have a degree in anything else, or are self taught, companies like these will most likely just ignore you. That is their "hot market", I call it artificial scarcity.

<comment><USER7> Indeed. "Never trust anyone over 30" has become in our field "Seldom hire anyone over 30 and never hire anyone over 40" and most certainly 50. That you can get "Senior" prepended to your title after about 5 years of experience ought to be a warning sign.

Due to genes that make me look (and for the most part feel) _quite_ a bit younger than I'm (I'm now 50 and am still mistaken for a early to mid-20s college student (dress and deportment make a difference, of course)) I was able to experimentally, as it were, see this when I was in my 30s.

</comment></comment><comment> super-serial Only _good programmers_ have a ton of opportunity.

Where are all the jobs for _bad programmers_ with CS degrees?

That sounds like a joke... but by Hacker News community standards I'm sure more than half of CS graduates would be considered mediocre programmers at best. The big companies would never try to train these kids - they just lobby for more H1Bs.

How else do you explain stories like this while we have a "talent shortage": <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1480749>

<comment><USER8> My impression is that there are plenty of jobs for relatively mediocre programmers—just not the kinds of jobs that HN readers tend to aspire to. Someone has to write enterprise CRUD apps on a .NET or Java stack for large non-software companies, and they don't have to be rockstars.

<comment><USER9> Sadly, even companies that create .net crud apps only want the rockstar programmers. Or at least that's the way it seems in Los Angeles. I'm speaking from experience although perhaps I'm just a mediocre software developer.

<comment><USER3> Rockstars and / or Ninjas. </sarcasm>

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> I hate articles like this.

(1) When did aspiring to a good life become wrong? The article seems to sympathize with Dharmesh Shah of Hubspot who whines about having to pay devs a middle class wage.

(2) Since I've seen this with the dude from seo moz and other places: To all of you whining about your inability to hire software engineers, what exactly are you doing to grow your own? Are you aggressively hiring interns so you get first shot when they graduate? Are you lobbying your state and national reps to fund universities? There are plenty of smart people entering college this fall; in 4 years, some of them will be cs graduates. It seems like on the margin a lot of smart people enter finance or law or other fields; what are you doing to attract them to software engineering? What are you doing about the rampant sexism that helps turn off a lot of women (that's 1/2 your potential engineers) to development as a career?

<comment><USER6> So whats your problem? The only pools of programming talent come from young interns or computer science graduates? You'd suggest political lobbying before looking outside the narrow focus of twenty something male comp-sci clones that colleges have been pumping out because of the dot-com bubble?

<comment><USER11> I guess his point was that catering to students is just one way to solve their own problems; basically, they need to stop whining and put in some effort: step up pay, or training, or process, or hire two people to do the job rather than having one guy work 80 hours. Hiring students was just one example where it requires extra effort from employers to get good employees, effort that (it seems) they aren't willing to put in.

I was especially disappointed seeing Shah on this bandwagon of whining, since I mostly like his blog and writing. But no, apparently he too prefers 40k wage slaves that make him rich but who he only needs pay enough to survive but not enough to become independent. (I have first-hand experience with how reporters twist and turn words so maybe the article misrepresents what he's saying, but even in the most favorable interpretation of his words I don't really see how that could have happened without the reporter straight out fabricating a quote).</comment></comment></comment>


To Cripple or To Build - <AUTHOR>

I've recently released an iPhone app and am looking towards future development but I'd appreciate the opinion of smart individuals like you.
Let's say I have $5,000 to spend on an update to my app. In your opinion, would it be best to cripple the app and release a free (current price is $2.99) "lite" version with an in-app purchase that unlocks all the features? This would be done in hopes that it would spur downloads and, hopefully, purchases.
Or would it be better to use the money to improve the app and add new features which might also improve purchases? <comment><USER2> It comes down to why people buy your app. If a lite version is going to give them a chance to experience why they would want to use the full version without alienating them, then go for it.

But don't think of the reduced version as a crippled version, think of it as one that gives the flavour of what the full app should be with some obvious disadvantages. For instance, if your app lets someone produce images and email them, the lite version should let them produce images and email them, but put a "produced by App Lite version" watermark on rather than disabling email functionality.

That way they can see exactly what the advantage of upgrading is, without being restricted from using all the features.

</comment><comment><USER3> is there a reason why you can't do both? does it really cost $5k to cripple your app?

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> The $5,000 number is only hypothetical. No reason why I can't do both.</comment>


Language Hacking in a Live Programming Environment - <AUTHOR> https://ohmlang.github.io/pubs/live2016/ <comment><USER2> This looks amazing! I would love to have access to a tool like this for working on my current programming language project; is the tool available for download somewhere? I don't see anything about the editor in the Ohm repo[0].

Another cool thing would be to make an Ohm-to-Bison compiler; I'm not about to reimplement my whole language in Javascript, but I would love to prototype the grammar in the Ohm editor and then compile it down to Bison.

[0]: [https://github.com/cdglabs/ohm](https://github.com/cdglabs/ohm)

<comment> david-given The grammar language looks unexciting, which is exactly what I want from a grammar language. Some kind of conversion is probably possible. But it looks like one of the really cool bits is being able to add actions to rules so easily, and that won't be as fluid in anything but Javascript.

I'd love to play with the editor too.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> Looks like you can play with the interactive editor as discussed in the paper at [https://ohmlang.github.io/editor](https://ohmlang.github.io/editor)

<comment><USER4> Awesome! The syntax reference is a must: [https://github.com/cdglabs/ohm/blob/master/doc/syntax- refere...](https://github.com/cdglabs/ohm/blob/master/doc/syntax-reference.md)

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> Interesting to see that there is some VPRI / Smalltalk / Squeak influence with HARC/YC Research [http://vpri.org/html/team_bios/yoshiki.htm](http://vpri.org/html/team_bios/yoshiki.htm) aboard

There is also Moose that can create grammars quite easily.

[http://www.moosetechnology.org/](http://www.moosetechnology.org/) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moose_(analysis)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moose_\(analysis\))

Using PetitParser, GTInspector, and other such tooling, visual construction, debugging, and evaluation of grammars and parsers is a breeze.

</comment><comment><USER6> As far as I can see, they are bringing feature 9 from pg's article "What Made Lisp Different" [0].

[0]: [http://www.paulgraham.com/diff.html](http://www.paulgraham.com/diff.html)

</comment><comment><USER7> This was a good write-up about Ohm. Really cool stuff.

[https://www.pubnub.com/blog/2016-08-30-javascript-parser- ohm...](https://www.pubnub.com/blog/2016-08-30-javascript-parser-ohm-makes- creating-a-programming-language-easy/)

</comment><comment><USER8> Looks quite interesting. I have a few questions that I couldn't find answers for in the documentation.

Does Ohm help with type checking in any way?

Does Ohm support indentation based syntax?

Does Ohm handle language composition (eg. JavaScript or CSS inside HTML)?

<comment><USER9> Hi, I'm one of the authors of Ohm.

> Does Ohm help with type checking in any way?

Not sure what you mean here...are you asking if Ohm has any support for type checking a language that you create using Ohm?

If so, the answer is no -- not yet. But I could definitely imagine implementing a pluggable Semantics that could make this really easy to do for most languages. We are happy to accept pull requests :-)

> Does Ohm support indentation based syntax?

No, it's not (yet) possible to do this directly. Though it can be done with a simple preprocessing step that expands the source code to include explicit indent/dedent tokens.

It's definitely something we'd like to support, we just haven't settled on how.

> Does Ohm handle language composition (eg. JavaScript or CSS inside HTML)?

Yes and no. Right now, the only means of composition Ohm supports is grammar inheritance. This makes sense for things like ES5 and ES6, but not so much for the use case you describe. The problem is that inheritance won't work if you have any name clashes in the grammars.

We've considered something traits-like ([http://scg.unibe.ch/archive/phd/schaerli- phd.pdf](http://scg.unibe.ch/archive/phd/schaerli-phd.pdf)), but we're not sure whether it's worth the additional language complexity. A simple workaround for the use case you describe is to just parse in two phases: first match the HTML, allowing `any*` inside a script tag, then match the JavaScript inside a semantic action.

If you're interested in more details, you might want to read the paper that we'll be presenting at DLS in Nov: [https://ohmlang.github.io/pubs/dls2016/modular-semantic- acti...](https://ohmlang.github.io/pubs/dls2016/modular-semantic-actions.pdf)

<comment><USER8> Fair enough, and thank you for the info :) It looks like a very interesting project.</comment></comment></comment>


What the Chinese Received from Coronavirus - <AUTHOR> https://medium.com/behind-the-great-wall/what-the-chinese-received-from-coronavirus-42e7bed04296 <comment><USER2> I can't wait until this news cycle is over so that we can resume ignoring the normal flu, which kills up to 650,000 people per year (3–5 million severe cases per year).

Wash your hands!

<comment><AUTHOR> Novelty factor. That's why they call it the novel coronavirus.</comment></comment>


Twitter confirms IPO plans via Twitter - <AUTHOR> https://twitter.com/twitter/status/378261932148416512

<comment><USER2> If I invest, can I get a Verified Investor badge?

</comment><comment><USER3> It would be bigger news if they confirmed that they weren't filing for an IPO!

Seriously, all this hush-hush and efforts to keep it low-key are actually producing opposite results.

<comment><USER4> Assuming it wasn't all deliberate. Building up hype is no bad thing for Twitter. Or at least the majority owners of it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> "Confidentially" may not be the correct word.

<comment><USER6> They're confident it will be approved?

<comment><USER7> that would be "confidently", i think.

<comment><USER6> Oh, right...

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> It's interesting that Mark was just talking about this yesterday.

</comment><comment><USER9> My twitter page, twitter.com/vla, returns an error for weeks. Even when I login, I cannot view my own page, though I can send messages, and view recommended tweets and who is following me. Can anybody at twitter help out?

<comment><USER10> You'll need to contact twitter support.

[https://twitter.com/about/contact](https://twitter.com/about/contact)

<comment><USER9> Thank you. I've contacted @support twice in the last two weeks, but the issue still persists.

<comment><USER11> Email me (address in profile) your support ticket id(s) and I'll follow up.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Show HN: Branded Background – Create a branded virtual background for Zoom calls - <AUTHOR> https://brandedbackground.com <comment><AUTHOR> I built Branded Background to help anyone create a Zoom virtual background with their logo on it.

Having your logo on a virtual background is a great way to keep your brand front and center during business calls.

Would love to know know what you think!</comment>


Update on My Startup's Progress - <AUTHOR> http://blog.aisleten.com/2010/02/04/update-on-doleaf-progress

<comment><AUTHOR> We got a request to give a "where are we now" post for DoLeaf, so here it is!

For the curious, DoLeaf (<http://doleaf.com>) is a marketplace to find and buy plants from specialty nurseries and garden centers. We're a small startup just trying to stumble our way through.

</comment><comment><USER2> That's awesome, I remember when you guys first went live (err, it may have been a closed beta, but I remember your initial announcement), and it seemed like a real niche. Glad to see that it's turning out so well thus far, and I hope things keep working out for you.</comment>


How can you echo a newline in batch files? - <AUTHOR> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/132799/how-can-you-echo-a-newline-in-batch-files <comment><AUTHOR> Bash equivalent is just:

      echo $'hello\nworld'

This uses ANSI C quoting [https://www.gnu.org/software/bash/manual/html_node/ANSI_002d...](https://www.gnu.org/software/bash/manual/html_node/ANSI_002dC- Quoting.html) .

<comment><USER2> Do I understand correctly that you linked to a SO question about how to have the DOS batch command "echo" emit a newline just so you can point out how to do it in a different shell used primarily on a different OS?</comment></comment>


Show HN: Noodlio – Browse and submit high-quality themes, templates and components - <AUTHOR> http://www.seipel-ibisevic.com/noodl <comment><USER2> Before this thing gets any attention you need to get like 100 more cool widgets to feature. When I arrive at noodlio, I need to scratch an itch that I have, and not introduce an itch. Currently, I am thinking, "Dang, I wish this had like a million code snippets for me to play with." Otherwise it looks great. The landing page could go for some design improvements as well.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for the feedback. That definitely makes sense. Do you have some tips for the landing page?

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> Just a note, it didn't seem to load the page at all until I disabled my adblocker (uBlock) in Chrome.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for the tip. Website is entirely made in Angular, that could explain it. Will dig into the issue.</comment></comment>


Ask HN: How do you deal with your mediocrity? - <AUTHOR>

I feel like I'm neither good at coding, nor great at research and at best ordinary in teaching. I'm a PhD student and I feel like whatever I am mediocre in almost everything I do. It puts a fear in my heart from trying new things as I might end up being very mediocre in that new thing too.<p>If you ever had this kind of feeling, how did you overcome it? Thanks. <comment><USER2> I discovered I was not very smart long back (about 20 years back when I started working). I compensated by working harder, reading more books than others, reviewing more carefully, thinking more about the things I am doing -- professionally and in personal life. Maybe my issue has to do with dyslexia, or some kind of social anxiety disorder that totally "freezes" my brain when i am in company.

Anyway, I did well and rose to management positions (in software) which I detested but soldiered on (spending as much time as I could on tech work which I love). However, after 14 years of working I finally seemed to hit my "level of incompetence" and just could not continue in management. I can only suggesting working hard, and finding something you enjoy doing.

I also saved a lot of money which allowed me to retire at 40. I now spend my time writing open source software (which I admit is mediocre) and reading HN to keep myself updated and "sponge" off the intelligence of others.

</comment><comment><USER3> Richard Feynman had that problem. He solved that problem by saying "whatever, I'll just have fun playing."

<http://www.physics.ohio-state.edu/~kilcup/262/feynman.html>

I'm not sure anyone else followed his example all the way to the nobel prize, but I can say for certain that I've followed it to a satisfying place.

I wonder if I'm more mediocre than you, or you're more mediocre than me. One of us must be more mediocre. One of us has two thumbs and doesn't care.

</comment><comment><USER4> First of all mediocre is a relative term. Be careful who you are comparing yourself against.

I used to be able to run a 5K in under 17 minutes. That made me a mediocre high school cross country runner but way faster than I am now.

Also consider that if you are at the 99th percentile in something that means 70,000,000 are better than you. There will always be someone better than you at something. By the way, being in the 99th percentile is very good.

Finally even if you aren't very good at something doesn't mean you can't enjoy it anyway.

</comment><comment><USER5> I think you are not mediocre simply because you feel like you might be. Not sure if that makes sense.

To explain: My mum insisted I see a psychiatrist since she was convinced I was depressed (turns out she was right), but in one of the sessions the psychiatrist asked me to "describe myself" and I told him how I felt like I crap because I was really good at coding, but not memorably good; how I loved to paint but my cat paintings would turn out more like a furry pig (not even kidding) and how I had no sense for design, but still enjoyed it. So, all of that made me feel like a loser. And I will paraphrase what he said: "The fact that you consider your skills mediocre, and assuming you want to develop them further, it already makes you the opposite of mediocre."

It sounded more poetic in Croatian, but the general thought is still there.

God, that is a lot of text... Sorry about that.

<comment><USER6> What your psychiatrist said is very very inspiring.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> As others have said, mediocrity is relative. So is stupidity and genius.

Growing up and becoming (something of) an adult, the one thing that still constantly surprises me is the huge amount of mediocrity surrounding me, and not just that: they're succesful and happy. Part of the reason for this surprise is that I generally surround myself with people that are at the very least not _much_ more mediocre than me, and often people that are on par or 'better' than me.

If you're a PhD student, you're clearly not 'mediocre' by most standards. And I suspect you're in a competitive environment full of people that are either very smart, or trying to prove they are.

So then ask yourself: who am I comparing myself to, and why is it important to do so. There's always someone 'better', so thinking in this way is futile.

My general approach to life is this: if I feel like the smartest person I know, I should find more smarter friends. If I feel intimidated or bad by those around me, I should perhaps find friends that are equal or less smart then me. I've been in both situations.

Incidentally, many of those I thought smarter than me really weren't. And those of my friends that are 'dumber' then me make up with that in a myriad of other ways, since fortunately being smart isn't all there is.

</comment><comment><USER8> It sounds like you have a "fixed mindset" as opposed to a "growth mindset". You worry that you are not as skilled at X as you might like to be, but your focus should simply be consistently improving at X.

The y-offset at t=0 matters a little, but the magnitude of the slope dominates in the long run.

</comment><comment><USER9> As a grad student, you're learning how to do research. You're probably surrounded by people who have been doing it for years. Heck, at this point, if someone even has a year on you, their skills probably seem phenomenal.

Remember, you're climbing a very steep, very long learning curve. You will fail. You will go down the wrong path and do the wrong thing. A mediocre person keeps repeating the same mistakes. Leak from them instead.

Finally, remember that you're surrounded by very skilled people. If you look around and find yourself to be average, you're probably doing great.

</comment><comment><USER10> I found myself in your words. I'm 37 years old and I'm more mediocre than 17 years ago. Suicide is an option, but I'm mediocre also in this area.

<comment><USER2> | Suicide is an option, but I'm mediocre also in this area.

Thankfully, you are mediocre in that area.

There must be something you enjoy doing, which if you work hard enough on, you can achieve some level that you can proud of. Within that area, you just might find some niche where your mediocrity is useful for others. As I've mentioned above I right mediocre software for the command-line (my niche is commandline and ncurses). Some people like what I do, some don't.

As far as suicide, besides the normal medical paths, please also try meditation seriously. There are enough threads in HN on that -- there are great secular meditations such as mindfulness or just breath watching -- so i won't elaborate.

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> I realized that everyone is different, and that I cannot directly compare myself to others. Mediocrity is an attitude that is defined by purposely doing the worst job you can because you dont care. I highly doubt that you as a PhD student are mediocre. It takes a huge amount of dedication to reach that level. If you want to chat, email is in profile.

</comment><comment><USER12> Think of what you are doing as a contribution rather than a race or a talent show and then do your best.

If you want to play the saxophone as good as Charlie Parker, you got to put in the same hours of practice that he. You may be "mediocre" but there are people who will want to hear you play.

I will never paint like Monet nor swim as fast as Michael Phelps but trying too do so has been a rewarding experience. Eight Alcatraz swim crossings and paintings that people like and are hanging on their walls.

</comment><comment><USER13> Complex topic. In a nutshell, you should care that you're mediocre only if your competing with others. If not, why should you care?

After you leave school, the need to be not-mediocre will become less acute, because life is less competitive than we're led to believe in school.

Basically, as you grow older, you'll stop competing and start living.

Not really sure if this helps. Good luck!

</comment><comment><USER14> > I'm a PhD student

Not mediocre.

You have that impostor syndrome thing probably.

<comment><USER15> Yeah, a better question: How do you assassinate your imposter syndrome?

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> Look at it 2 ways:

1\. There are things to achieve and you can look forward to it. You have people to look up to.

2\. There is still someone more mediocre than you (always). So it's not that bad.

</comment><comment><USER17> "A man must love the thing very much if he not only practices it without any hope of fame or money, but even practices it without any hope of doing it well."

\--G.K. Chesterton

</comment><comment><USER6> I feel the exactly the same way.. Comparing to the people around me, I am mediocre at almost everything.. But I have to say it really depends on who you compare yourself with.

</comment><comment><USER18> I deal with my mediocrity by being Awesome. That is all.

</comment><comment><USER19> I have skimmed the replies. I do not see this mentioned. You might look up "Impostor Syndrome". You are in a phd program. You probably aren't as mediocre as you think. Very talented, intelligent people are often hyperaware of their mistakes and overestimate how lousy they are.

I have found that a good antidote is to get some kind of objective data to compare myself against. Knowing where I really stand helps me figure out if I am really as lousy as I think/feel I am. I also look for ways to improve on my weak areas. It is usually not that I generally suck. It is usually some small number of specific things that are tripping me up. Working on those areas often removes the bottleneck between suckitude and impressive.

</comment><comment><USER20> How can you possibly feel mediocre? Against what? You are a completely unique individual. There is no one like you in the entire universe. You have a blend of skills and traits no one else possesses.

What are these abilities and insights you have that no one else has? It's up to you to uncover them. That takes some work. It also requires that you listen to yourself for a change rather than other people. It may require further experimentation, but you are the best in the world at something.

Get off HN and find out what it is.

One more thing: watch the self-talk. Be proactive and solution-based. Your thinking should be where your problem isn't.

<comment><USER21> "What are these abilities and insights you have that no one else has?"

Sometimes the answer to that question is "I don't have any." Or sometimes it's an ability that is not valued (even by yourself).

I too encourage searching, but let's be realistic.</comment></comment>


Java Developers: Start Your Engines - <AUTHOR> http://blog.exoplatform.org/2010/09/07/java-developers-start-your-engines/

<comment><USER2> I've been in Java dev for a long time and am not starting my engines on it. It may still be where most of the jobs are, but I'd rather be where the jobs _will_ be. I'm betting it will be a dynamic language, despite the arguments for stronger typing. JRuby is a good in-between as it is a dynamic language that allows you to leverage the JVM and Java investment. But, SpringSource (part of VMWare, which is part of EMC) has been betting a few years on Grails. JRuby has an advantage over Grails because Ruby has been around long enough to have quite a bit of gems and plugins available. Who knows if either will be dominant in 10 years, though.

As for the graph, does anyone know why Indeed's is different than SimplyHired?

[http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=Java&l=](http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=Java&l=)

<http://www.simplyhired.com/a/jobtrends/trend/q-java></comment>


Ask HN: Should HN provide more RSS feeds? - <AUTHOR>

Hi,
I had the feeling that since the last summer, the number of posts has been increasing dramatically, so I checked the stats on Google Reader: 890.2 posts per week!!!
I honestly have no time to read all of that (and 70% is.... too specialised), but I also need my daily HN.
I think it is time for more RSS feeds: would you like to have the "homepage links"/"most popular"/... feeds?
Do you agree? Better Idea? Please share your voice to solve this issue. <comment><USER2> If you want a weekly recap of HN check out my newsletter - <http://www.hackernewsletter.com></comment>


Troubling Arguments from the Government in Smith v. Obama - <AUTHOR> https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2014/10/troubling-arguments-government-smith-v-obama <comment><USER2> > The district court said it felt bound to dismiss her claims because of a > 1979 Supreme Court case, _Smith v. Maryland_. That case involved the > collection of the phone numbers dialed by a criminal suspect over the course > of three days. It's one of the cornerstones of the so-called "third party > doctrine," the idea that people have no expectation of privacy in > information they entrust to others—and _it's outdated to say the least._

Post "the Fappening" and the realization that there are essentially no enforceable protections for information you store in the cloud, I'd say _Smith v. Maryland_ makes as much sense as it ever did. After all, back in 1979, call records were stored in a dusty database somewhere, used only for billing purposes. Today, the corresponding data stored by Facebook, Google, etc, are mined, processed, and correlated across time and space for advertising and marketing purposes. If _Smith_ stands for the proposition that the government has at least as much right to access your data for law enforcement purposes as AT&T does for billing purposes, then replacing "AT&T" with "Google" and "Facebook" and "billing" with "advertising" doesn't undermine the rationale of the case one bit.

Obviously you can argue that it was wrongly decided in the first instance, but that's a different argument.

<comment><USER3> There's also a delightful two-step whereby the government can

1) require the disclosure or retention of data for some regulatory purpose (taxing, telecom regs, "just because", etc.), and then

2) require warrantless access to the data, since after all it was turned over to a third party.

<comment><USER4> Some kinds of data have to be recorded, eg for certain sorts of financial transactions in excess of a certain amount. But you could operate an anonymous email service or some other sort of service where you don't retain any records. Government entities have been aware of/monitored 4chan for years, for example, but I've never heard of any attempt to compel Moot to engage in harvesting or storage of data (by compel I mean via litigation or legislation, not some politician saying 'there oughta be a law' on the nightly news).

By all means correct me if I'm wrong.

<comment><USER5> In this line of argument, the host that houses the servers is also a third party. So, there's no need to contact the opperator, when they could just access the machines.

<comment><USER6> I think the logical absurdity of this argument shows when you start saying that the server room is a "third party".

I say a third party is who ever that is involved, but isn't monetarily involved with a 2nd party (which is the party you paid to do the task).

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> > Call Detail Records Don't Actually Identify People

This is one of the best videos I have ever seen countering this argument.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bM0PmwOlifE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bM0PmwOlifE)

</comment><comment><USER8> We have an expectation of privacy _from the government_ if we the people say that _the government_ is simply not allowed to look for or look at something, regardless of who else may or may not have access to the something.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That _to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed_ , ...

[http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/declaration_transc...](http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/declaration_transcript.html)

Our government was created to serve us, as we see fit, not the other way around.

</comment><comment><USER9> Whilst the direction of the USG and its Big Brother attitude makes me fear for our collective future, it is worth pointing out that it is warming to see that there is a legal framework to challenge these actions.

In the UK... there is no hope. We have no constitution. EU laws that would prevent such actions are overridden with emergency security laws that almost nobody challenges, whilst the 'Liberal Party' don't just stand by, they partake.

Your constitution is unbelievably valuable. I hope you can hang on to it.

</comment><comment><USER10> [http://magarshak.com/blog/?p=169](http://magarshak.com/blog/?p=169)

</comment><comment><USER11> With neither party giving a damn, I shudder to think where we are heading.</comment>