In a first, U.S. blames Russia for cyber attacks on energy grid - <AUTHOR> https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-russia-sanctions-energygrid/in-a-first-u-s-blames-russia-for-cyber-attacks-on-energy-grid-idUSKCN1GR2G3 <comment><USER2> This is not a first. The USA made a nearly identical claim in this retracted story in 2016:

[https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national- security/russi...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national- security/russian-hackers-penetrated-us-electricity-grid-through-a-utility-in- vermont/2016/12/30/8fc90cc4-ceec-11e6-b8a2-8c2a61b0436f_story.html)

 _A code associated with the Russian hacking operation dubbed Grizzly Steppe by the Obama administration has been detected within the system of a Vermont utility, according to U.S. officials._

... but ...

 _Editor's Note: An earlier version of this story incorrectly said that Russian hackers had penetrated the U.S. electric grid. Authorities say there is no indication of that so far. The computer at Burlington Electric that was hacked was not attached to the grid._

Generally speaking, anonymously sourced stories in western news outlets about Russian hacking have a very high propensity to collapse or get quietly retracted days later. The DHS is particularly notorious for this: they also claimed Russia hacked various election related systems in multiple states, but the states themselves investigated and said the DHS was wrong.

I cite some more examples in this blog post:

[https://blog.plan99.net/%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B2%D0%B4%D0%B0...](https://blog.plan99.net/%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B2%D0%B4%D0%B0-6e24757a67ba)

Glenn Greenwald also wrote extensively about this problem.

So now we have an "unprecedented" story sourced to anonymous officials in the DHS, making the entirely false claim that this is the first time US officials have accused Russia of hacking the electrical grid. The cited evidence is a Symantec report that didn't name anyone in particular.

Is it possible Russia is doing this? Of course. I would be, if I were Putin. But I'd also be doing it if I were the leader of Iran or North Korea or China. Perhaps all of them are doing it.

Regardless of the truth, this sort of story should have no credibility with anyone by now. There have been far too many false stories about Russian hacking published for them to carry weight.

<comment><USER3> No, this is a first. It's the first time the US has publicly blamed Russia through official channels, as opposed to leaks to the press. The original alert was published by US-CERT:

[https://www.us-cert.gov/ncas/alerts/TA18-074A](https://www.us- cert.gov/ncas/alerts/TA18-074A)

and has more interesting technical details.

It's true that both this and previously reports technically involved "anonymous officials in the DHS", in the sense that alert doesn't name any specific officials, but the phrase "anonymous officials" is usually associated with leaks, not official announcements...

<comment><USER2> The story I linked to has statements from multiple elected representatives stating point blank that Russia had hacked the electricity grid. Official statements by representatives is the same thing as "The US Says" as far as the world is concerned.

<comment><USER3> I'd say they're not the same as far as the world is concerned, because the legislative branch is not responsible for diplomacy, and they're also mainly 'downstream' from the agencies actually producing the information.

…I was writing a rather long comment that tried to defend the Post story as, in retrospect, probably true, in light of the current report and other more recent showing a pattern. (In particular, the current report actually shows a VNC connection to some kind of generator system, though presumably not Burlington Electric's.) However, the Post's own followup report [1] suggested that (contrary to the company's original statement) the government had _not_ found any indicators on the Burlington Electric laptop that were uniquely linked to Grizzly Steppe:

        U.S. officials are continuing to investigate the laptop. In the
        course of their investigation, though, they have found on the device
        a package of software tools commonly used by online criminals to
        deliver malware. The package, known as Neutrino, does not appear
        to be connected with Grizzly Steppe, which U.S. officials have
        identified as the Russian hacking operation. The FBI, which declined
        to comment, is continuing to investigate how the malware got onto
        the laptop.

        Initially, company officials publicly said they had detected code
        that had been linked by the Department of Homeland Security to
        Grizzly Steppe.

I still don't think this does much of anything to invalidate the current story. It seems like that was mainly a mistake on the company's part, as they incorrectly treated indicators that were _non-_ uniquely linked to a hacking campaign as evidence it was targeted by that campaign. They then reported this to various authorities, and the information apparently found its way via the state police to one of the state's US senators - probably without the details being vetted by anyone with relevant experience. But both the the US-CERT report and the Symantec report provide evidence of an ongoing, targeted campaign against energy facilities (which, for that matter, was active at the time of the Post report). And one would expect that both reports originate from people that do basically know what they're talking about.

[1] [https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national- security/russi...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national- security/russian-government-hackers-do-not-appear-to-have-targeted-vermont- utility-say-people-close-to- investigation/2017/01/02/70c25956-d12c-11e6-945a-76f69a399dd5_story.html)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> I feel like we're playing a dangerous game, escalating towards war. We've interfered with each other's elections dating back to the cold war. I'm not saying it's moral, but we should maybe reexamine our own actions and what we're willing to sacrifice before asking for things [extraditions] for things we're also guilty of.

<comment><USER5> Russia cannot afford a war. It simply doesn't have the money or military to go against USA and Europe. And, no, China is not going to help them out

<comment><USER6> Russia is absolutely prepared to win a land war in their own territory. It kind of appears to be all they're interested in. Which would tend to make one draw some crazy wacky conclusions like maybe it's a defensive force held by a nation of peace-loving people who just want to cooperate and be respected, or at least left alone?

Probably sounds ridiculous to anybody steeped in the current wave of anti- Russian hysteria in the American media (or the earlier wave in the 80s). Why somebody might be producing warmongering propaganda against Russia I don't know, but clearly I'm supposed to take it as an unquestioned first principle that _of course_ Russia is out to get us (as if we weren't busy "getting" ourselves) and _of course_ Putin is the bogeyman -- Putin, a guy who has something like an 80% approval rating among his people and whose every public speech seems to be about conciliation, cooperation and peacemaking. Something isn't quite right. (Probably both sides are full of shit.)

Anyway no one has ever invaded Russia and won, including Napoleon and Hitler. Russians are proud of that. Their navy is about 2/3 as big as the US, but if what you're defending is most of Asia (an ocean of dirt) maybe that's not the biggest concern. Anyway if China does join in, _their_ navy is comparable to the US's, and together with Russia's, it'd be bigger.

The Russian air force is tiny (same for China) but given that all our aircraft carriers are basically sitting ducks for all the various Russian carrier- busting missiles they have nowadays, our air superiority might not matter as much as we'd like to think. Also they tend to stretch money further. Their jets are fairly cheap, indestructible metal cans with loose tolerances... kind of like flying AK-47s... while ours are exquisite and expensive (because they're made out of porkbarrel) and you have to walk the airfield and pick up every little bitty piece of debris before you take off, otherwise it might suck something in and choke... so the equivalent of a flying AR-15 that always jams.

<comment><USER7> > Russia is absolutely prepared to win a land war in their own territory. It > kind of appears to be all they're interested in.

That's clearly not true, as recent history shows, unless one has a fairly broad definition of what Russia's "own territory" is.

<comment><USER6> Ukraine was geographically and culturally part of Russia for centuries, only becoming independent in 1991 when the USSR collapsed.

<comment><USER7> > Ukraine was geographically and culturally part of Russia for centuries

No, it wasn't, though much of it was politically, through conquest, part of Russia for a couple centuries (and a bit more of of it for just over one century) prior to the formation of the USSR, and there was certainly an intense effort by Russia to colonize Ukraine with Russians to break it's distinct culture during that period where much of it was under the Russian imperial rule.

Clearly, you view Russia's own territory as anything that has ever in the past been subjugated by Russia independently of where modern nation-states lie, and in that respect, sure, Russia may be primarily concerned with fighting wars to re-establish empire in those places.

But that's not a sign of a peace-loving nation, but instead of a warmongering imperialist one that prioritizes restoring it's "glorious" past.

<comment><USER8> IMO it us wrong to equate USSR and Russia here. Russia did claim USSR heritage, but it is definitely not USSR.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> I've just finished watching the Stuxnet documentary. State funded attacks on critical infrastructure are going to be a world-wide norm. No matter how good your security, you will be vulnerable eventually. We'll have to go back to analogue style systems to be protected.

</comment><comment><USER10> Anyone interested in seeing the, "proof" that Russia was responsible can see it here:

[https://www.us-cert.gov/ncas/alerts/TA18-074A](https://www.us- cert.gov/ncas/alerts/TA18-074A)

As with virtually every other accusation of "Russian hacking", there is actually nothing presented suggesting that it was Russians that performed these hacks, let alone conclusively proving that. The line of "reasoning" used to accuse Russia of being responsible is, yet again, the same bit of tired tripe. It boils down to, "this attack uses methods that we suspect Russians have used in the past, and we assert that Russians would have liked to do this hack, therefore we have proof that it was Russians".

>Malicious email campaigns dating back to late 2015 were used to gain entry into organizations in the United States, Turkey and Switzerland, and likely other countries, Symantec said at the time, though it did not name Russia as the culprit.

In other words, these were generic fishing attacks that could have been performed by anyone. Since anyone and everyone uses these fishing attacks, we had no idea who it was in 2015. However, now that everyone is blaming everything on Russia, we can safely do so without even casual scrutiny of our claims.

<comment><USER4> While HN has a liberal bias, it is worth reading and understanding the opposite side's motivation for their opinion. Instead of voting him down, it would be more academic to understand and engage in civil discussions.

<comment><USER11> It's infinitely harder to have a reasonable discussion when there's a troll factory pumping out bad faith arguments in great volume. [1][https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2018/03/15/594062887/...](https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2018/03/15/594062887/some- russians-see-u-s-investigation-into-russian-election-meddling-as-a-soap-ope)

<comment><USER12> Are you implying that HN is full of trolls from the said factory ?

<comment><USER11> Trolls from the Internet Research Agency (the troll farm) have handles tumblr, facebook, reddit, as stated by those who previously worked at the Agency. I do not think it is unreasonable to assume, given HN's popularity and how intensive Russian efforts have been in regards to social media, that some accounts are maintained to manipulate opinions, just like any other social media site.

<comment><USER12> Care to point to such "bad faith" arguments by IRA trolls in comments here ? Or are you using it as an excuse to not have a debate?

<comment><USER11> All my evidence is anecdotal, and I have no means of confirming it on my own.

When I first looked over this post, there were 3-4 comments, all seemingly pro-russia. I see some points being made that are remarkably similar to official Russian positions on issues. Its really similar to when I see a post about China. A whole bunch of users surface abruptly with lots of comments favorable to China. Both of these countries have large, well documented operations to comment extensively on Western media sources. And I'm sure that many HN users like Russia and like China. But it's hard to shake the feeling that there is some astroturfing going on.

<comment><USER10> >all seemingly pro-russia.

Its extremely unfortunate that skepticism of government and/or media declarations are being characterized as "Pro-Russian". Exercising basic critical thinking skills and demanding evidence for accusations is something that we should all practice, in every case, but especially when serious accusations are leveled. I welcome you to re-read my post. I'm not pushing a "Pro-Russia" position. I'm pushing a "pro-intelligent person" position. I linked directly to the evidence they offered to support their assertions. I looked at the evidence they offered, did you? No evidence they presented suggested or concluded that Russians were responsible. Rather than responding intelligently by pointing to evidence that you think rebuts my assessment, you resort to questioning my motives.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Rather than discussion about technical aspects, we get a spew of how innocent Russia is and how America deserves it.

If the west now can't even defend its technical discussion forums from totalitarian disruption, heaven help it.

<comment><USER14> It's a knee-jerk reaction to totalitarian domestic propaganda.

Has a tendency to breed confused, alarmist, emotional and untechnical conversation.

Here's the truth: Russia isn't evil. Neither is the United States. But they are enemies. The people are getting caught in a propaganda war, which has shifted conversation from the venue of technical to ideological. (Propaganda, in practice, breeds ideological self-affirming thinking.)

The breakdown of conversation isn't the fault of the "traitors who support the evil Russians" or the fault of the "domestic saboteurs who support the US mass propaganda apparatus" but the fact that the two countries can't get their shit straight and work toward a post-Cold War without throwing acid at each other.

(I'm rewriting the last sentence of this over and over because I realize its going to attract ever-yet more comments of the form "but Russia's evil and they started it and you can't really compare the US and Russia - can you?". Screw it.)

<comment><USER15> I'm surprised how often people are starting to carelessly refer to Russia as "enemy". I think "adversary" is a more accurate term, on the same level as China.

The governments of both sides say they want cooperation but are are annoyed at each other's behavior and actions. However I don't think the people of either country treat the other as "enemy", like they did during the cold war. Back then each side was afraid that the other one may attack them preemptively out of ideological reasons.

<comment><USER13> Russia by itself is merely a western rival which could normally be worked with by sane western governments.

But Putin is a hostile who's popularity, having ruined the economy, depends on endless conflict and so will never be appeased. Even the extremely pro Putin White House is repeatedly embarrassed by the one sided-ness of the relationship.

But that's a side issue here. If one wanted to save a free discussion site from de-facto censorship and vandalism by totalitarian shills, one would need to apply the ban-hammer with ruthless zeal. Possibly viewing threads like this one as a honeypot to locate them.

One would not, for example, cater to that censorship by penalizing news of cyber attacks off the front page. Which, among other things, eliminates discussion of mitigation strategies.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> If I leave my door unlocked can I really blame <bad person> for opening my door and robbing me? Why dont I invest in door locks? The US should really look into a more security focused infrastructure. This year the bad guy is Russia, but last year it was China and next year maybe it will be Iranian hackers. I understand that security is constant game of cat and mouse but when I see and hear of companies running Wimdows XP in 2018... it's like we're not even trying. Might as well leave the doors unlocked.

<comment><USER17> > If I leave my door unlocked can I really blame <bad person> for opening my > door and robbing me?

Yes, you can and should.

<comment><USER18> I'm in full agreement, and I'm shocked that this argument is used so much. Even when faced with a vulnerability, it is absolutely the thief's responsibility if they take advantage of the vulnerability for their own gain.

<comment><USER19> The adversary in question isn't accountable to our laws. There is no "thief's responsibility." There's just "you got pwned, you have no recourse, now it's your problem."

For all intents and purposes, that thief may as well be a crocodile who slips in during the night and eats your children. We can put it on trial or negotiate with it about as effectively.

Was Equifax blameless in the events leading up to their breach? They could have prevented it, but they didn't. Or do we only expect responsibility from criminals and corporations?

<comment><USER20> So your argument is that Russia or any other nation state that behaves this way is an amoral entity like a crocodile? This is absurd, nations consist of human beings that can understand concepts of right or wrong and behave appropriately. If your argument is correct, and the adversary is amoral and driven only by the opportunity to take advantage of weakness, the other nations at risk by this entity should logically band together and destroy it.

<comment><USER19> If they behaved appropriately, we wouldn't be debating their capacity to destroy our infrastructure for the fun of it. We aren't at war with them. Where is the sense of right and wrong? Why are they trying to harm us? Why won't they extradite the persons responsible for their alleged damage to date so we may seek justice?

I'm not advocating a crocodile hunt FFS, only that if they aren't going to play by our rules then maybe we should take responsibility for our own security by locking shit down, and stop acting like pointing the finger at the bad guy of the day somehow shields us from the consequences of mal-intent.

<comment><USER21> You can play offense and defense... saying it's either or is a very simplistic mindset. The international community has the capability to both secure from bad actors, and punish bad actors. Sometimes force is necessary and it's prudent that it be used with Russia.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> That Russia is acting like a spoiled country is not much in doubt. What I hope doesn't happen is a needless tit-for-tat escalation. I think much of this goes back to the ill-conceived and ill fated "Reset" with Clinton (at the behest of Obama). For whatever reason Putin and Obama didn't get along.

I'm hopeful that cold-war warriors don't dominate the policies to come. If we (they and us) take that tack, we're in for a bad stretch. I'm hoping the current administration is capable of bucking the Russophobia the Dems are so attached to and committed to, mostly for internal political reasons.

Let's get real, deal with Russia as the adversary it is, but in a level-headed manner. Let's face it, they do not care about sanctions. One Bit. They will survive with or without the rest of the world but we get to deal with their blow back.

Obama granted N Korea's Kim more respect than he did Putin. I think that was a grave mistake on his part and we're now paying for this slight with these passive-aggressive moves.

<comment><USER11> Russian-American relations have worsened not because of russophobia, but rather because of several high profile and geopolitically relevant events. The first of these was the invasion of Crimea and the funneling of arms to Ukrainian Separatists engaging in a civil war. These actions are a direct violation of the Budapest Memorandum signed by Russia and the US. Essentially, Ukraine agreed to destroy the nuclear weapons leftover from the USSR in exchange for total respect in regards to territorial integrity.[1] Furthermore, a Russian BUK system, staffed by these separatists downed the civilian airliner Malaysia Airlines Flight 17, killing 298 innocent people.[2]. Furthermore, Russian hackers hacked the emails of both major political parties, and has, literally, a 3 story office complex staffed with internet trolls intent on misleading the American public via social media for the last several years[4]. Finally, you have the most recent incident where Russia attempted to murder not only a former spy in the U.K., but also his daughter, and about twenty other bar patrons, neighbors and first responders. The poisoned used was a nerve gas developed in Russia and exclusively available in Russia.[5]

Clearly, these are meaningful events in the context of American-Russia relations as well as NATO-Russia relations, you can't just handwave them away by saying it's one parties political problem.

[1][https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_17](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_17) [2][https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Securit...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Security_Assurances) [3][https://www.cnn.com/2017/01/10/politics/comey-republicans- ha...](https://www.cnn.com/2017/01/10/politics/comey-republicans-hacked- russia/index.html) [4][https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2018/03/15/594062887/...](https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2018/03/15/594062887/some- russians-see-u-s-investigation-into-russian-election-meddling-as-a-soap-op) [5][https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/14/europe/theresa-may- reprisals-...](https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/14/europe/theresa-may-reprisals- for-russian-spy-poisoning-intl/index.html)

<comment><USER23> It did not start with the Ukrainian coup, but rather with the Georgia conflict back in 2008. Can't really blame the Russians, what do you think it'd happen if a pro-Moscow government were elected in Mexico? What would be the US' reaction?

<comment><USER24> > What would be the US' reaction?

Maybe a wall that is ten feet higher. Certainly not an armed invasion.

<comment><USER25> [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_invasion_of_Grenada](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_invasion_of_Grenada)

<comment><USER24> Grenada is not comparable to Ukraine and Mexico.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Virtual Conference Resources - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/e8johan/virtual-conf-resources <comment><AUTHOR> Contributions are welcome!</comment>


Ask HN: computing in 2014 : your predictions? - <AUTHOR>

How many cores will a typical personal computer have?
Will Clojure or Scala replace Java (if so, which)?
Will the most popular languages feel like CUDA or Haskell or C#/LINQ? <comment><USER2> _How many cores will a typical personal computer have?_

Either 8 or 16, assuming you're counting general-purpose cores. Don't be surprised if CPUs come with separate vector computing cores (basically like GPUs have now).

 _Will Clojure or Scala replace Java (if so, which)?_

No.

 _Will the most popular languages feel like CUDA or Haskell or C#/LINQ?_

No. The most popular languages will be new innovations which are popular solely because they throw out existing paradigms and, in so doing, restrict themselves to a small number of developers (who therefore trumpet their use of this language in order to demonstrate their superiority over everybody else).

The most widely used languages will be imperative structured single-address- space languages with extensive feature sets provided via libraries -- i.e., C and C-like languages.

<comment><USER3> 8 or 16? In 5 years? I think Moore's Law will get us more than that. Typical now is 2 to 4.

And while I agree that the most popular language will be something brand new, it's based more on non-public information I've seen.

I'm not sure I agree with your "superiority theory". Languages become popular because of the core problem they're solving. C++ was popular when Windows came out, Java when the web took off. The next big language will be able to handle multi-threading easily, so that when we hit 64 cores, it won't be a waste.

<comment><USER2> _8 or 16? In 5 years? I think Moore's Law will get us more than that. Typical now is 2 to 4._

The number of transistors per unit area of silicon doubles every generation, and generations of silicon are coming almost exactly once every 24 months now; so if the number of transistors per core and area of CPU silicon per system remained constant, you would see 8 to 16 cores per system 4 years from now. I'm guessing that the number of transistors per core will continue to grow slowly, so I figured the fourfold increase in cores would take 5 years instead of 4.

<comment><AUTHOR> Larrabee is supposed to come out in about a year, starting at, according to some expectations 32 cores.

<comment><USER2> Larrabee isn't a CPU; it's a GPU.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> _Will the most popular languages feel like CUDA or Haskell or C#/LINQ?_

No. I think the most popular languages will be the cobols of the future: java and visual basic.

</comment><comment><USER5> On a massive scale things won't change that much. It would be cool, but things will stay mainly the same and people will still use IE 6/7 then.

</comment><comment><USER6> How many cores will a typical personal computer have?

Well, maybe by 2014, there will be something else other than cores??? Almost some geeks will create something innovative!!! Who knows?

EDIT: This world is changing in a crazy way... so fast pace more than you think... specially when it comes to the IT!!!

EDIT: Why would you really give me "0" point?!!!! 8-}

<comment><USER7> Don't use multiple '!' or '?' signs: they just tell us you are inexperienced.

Your sentences contain vague speculation. Without any hint of knowledge, speculation doesn't add anything constructive to the conversation.

Remember, when not knowing what to add, your best comment is silence. Enjoy the forum.

<comment><USER6> Albert,

Do you think that everyone who has passed the karma threshold, does really have the ability to "down vote" a comment? I am talking about the ability, not the functionality!!!

This comment that I wrote above... I really believe in it, regardless if I am experienced or not. And anyway I am here to learn... I am here to meet great people like you... but it's not good at all to keep receiving down votes!

Yesterday, I commented on Paul Buchheit's post about his friendfeed with mysql.. and I wrote to him that I like him so much... I received down-vote because I wrote that!!!!!!!! Does it make any sense??!!!

The "guys" who can down-vote, are not angels or prophets... they are people that I can agree/disagree with them, and they are making mistakes for sure!</comment></comment></comment>


FIQ Handlers in the ARM Linux Kernel - <AUTHOR> http://free-electrons.com/blog/fiq-handlers-in-the-arm-linux-kernel/

<comment><AUTHOR> Useful bits of information in there. The fact the arm-gic driver doesn't handle any of the priority features of the GIC can be quite a bit of hindrance. At least, FIQ gives you ONE trump card.</comment>


The Man Who Would Be Gates - <AUTHOR> http://www.vanityfair.com/business/features/1997/06/larry-ellison-silicon-valley-bill-gates

<comment><USER2> Google's barely a twinkle in Larry and Sergey eyes when that article was written.</comment>


Show HN: Popper.js v1: How I managed to create a powerful positioning system - <AUTHOR> https://medium.com/@FezVrasta/popper-js-v1-5e8b3acd888c <comment><USER2> Link to the tooltip library: [https://popper.js.org/tooltip- examples.html](https://popper.js.org/tooltip-examples.html)

Link to the popper library: [https://popper.js.org](https://popper.js.org)

I found Tooltip.js library really helpful for people who are less technical and want something ready in a short amount of time. In my opinion, Popper.js instead, is more powerful but it requires time to work with it.</comment>


The School Days of Philip Greenspun. - <AUTHOR> http://philip.greenspun.com/school/

<comment><USER2> "Freshman physics at MIT gave me my comeuppance. Every week I stared at a whole sheet of problems that I was sure I could never solve even if I lived to be 100. I'd never learned how to work on a problem for more than 10 seconds so I was stuck with a knotted stomach and a panicked brain. Fourteen years of struggle with these kinds of problems in and around MIT taught me, by imperceptible steps, that I wasn't actually better than the average person. If a slight increase in the difficulty of the problems rendered me just as helpless as those poor souls in junior high, then who was I to hold myself above anyone? Without consciously trying to do anything differently, I found myself able to have real conversations with people from all walks of life."

From <http://philip.greenspun.com/samantha/samantha-XIV>

</comment><comment><USER3> What's with the naked pictures?

NSFW!!!!!

<comment><USER4> Well, yeah if you click twice to see the 1000x1500 versions.</comment></comment>


Easter dates repeats every 5,700,000 years - <AUTHOR> http://wordpress.mrreid.org/2011/12/12/youve-already-experienced-the-earliest-easter-youll-ever-know/

<comment><USER2> This title is misleading; the precise sequence of Easter dates on a year-over- year basis cycles every 5,700,000 years, but of course individual dates repeat much more often than that.

<comment><AUTHOR> Indeed, the title could said "The Cycle For...", but unfortunately I don't seem to be able to edit submission titles.

</comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> Also Easter dates by occurence chart: [http://spreadsheetpage.com/index.php/tip/calculating_easter/](http://spreadsheetpage.com/index.php/tip/calculating_easter/)</comment>


Working from Home Part 2: Why It's Great - <AUTHOR> http://geeksinboston.com/2009/02/04/working-from-home-part-2-why-its-great/ <comment><USER3> Whether or not working from home is good or not really depends on your situation.

I have a 40 minute commute to and from work which I use to read the papers or a book. I have an official 'work-from-home' day (Wednesday) and the option to work from home other days if there's nothing at the office that requires my attention.

However, I usually just go in to the office every Wednesday and only sometimes use the work-from-home-any-day option.

I happen to like the work environment we have. I have a nice clean office space with a big desk, two large monitors, good lighting, a comfortable chair, a kitchen with food and drinks, a rec room with couches and a pool table and whiteboards everywhere.

I am frequently interrupted, but half the time it's by fellow coders working on different problems who want to bounce some ideas off of me. There's an unwritten protocol for programmers interrupting programmers where I work. You walk by and say 'hey'. You get a 'hey' back and if the programmer doesn't turn back to the monitor, they're usually open for interruption. Or they might suck you into whatever problem they're working on.. :)

The other half of the interruptions are from the operations, business, sales and management side. These can be very annoying and consume a lot of time, but I encourage them (up to a point). For one, they provide a good finger on the pulse of the wider company operations. They keep a level of transparency between software development and the other areas of the company. They're also good for social cohesion (a 'we' feeling as opposed to 'us and them').

Interaction just works better face-to-face. The pool table we have, for example, is rarely used for actual games. Usually it's used by two or three people that are discussing something and just making a few shots while doing it. Or just goofing off for a bit.

Of course, I also have to get some code done. I can manage my time and do this, but I also have a lot of freedom in this respect. If you're working with a boss who micro-manages you, eh.. well .. that's a different story. (I suggest getting another job. I've been there and it sucked).

</comment><comment><USER4> This is so matter-of-fact I consider that the more important question is - <USER2> don't managers recognize this and how can we make them recognize it? If I was a steel worker, they'd go insane over a 1% increase in my productivity, but as a developer they chop up my time into tiny little increments, and then wonder why the heck I can't get anything done.

<comment><USER5> I'm not sure, but probably because productivity of programmers is hard to measure? You, as a programmer, solve different problem each time. Productivity can be defined by

        (* individual-productivity-coefficient
           (/ (* amount-of-the-task difficulty-of-the-task)
              time-to-implement))

Within these parameters, managers can only see time-to-implement clearly, amount-of-the-task vaguely, individual-productivity-coefficient relatively (to other coworkers), and difficulty-of-the-task hardly. Suppose you spend a week to solve X in busy environment, then spend a day to solve Y when the noisy manager is on vacation and you know X and Y are more or less the same amount and difficulty, so it's 5x boost! But the only clue the manager has is that you finish Y in 1/5 of the time of X, and each counts as single "feature" so the amount of task should be the same, and they conclude that the difficulty of Y is 1/5 of X instead of thinking that your individual productivity coefficient raised 5x.

<comment><USER4> Sure, it's hard to measure (the root of the problem) - but there's plenty of people out there (Joel Spolsky for starters, Peopleware is another) that suggest some of the things that adversely affect it. Why are those factors so hard to communicate to managers?

<comment><AUTHOR> The existence of those factors is not hard to communicate. Your manager will probably understand and sympathize, but without a measurable cost or benefit, how is she going to argue for them in a committee with other managers? Sure, we get that your private offices are going to make your team more productive, but is that $100k more productive or $1M more productive? If you can even begin to answer that question without the rest of the crowd falling asleep, you're amazing. There is always pressure to make simple, easily justifiable decisions, rather than nuanced, complex ones; unless you can find simple terms to argue in, you just brought a paintbrush to a gun fight.

<comment><USER4> To quote my boss (it's almost like a mantra) - "whatever's easier." I'm sort of a student of management (and in academic terms actually more than "sort of") so this stuff fascinates me. It's easy to point to companies that don't do whatever's easier, but actually do whatever's correct (Google would be a good example) but day to day, the message doesn't get executed.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> If I reinvented a Patricia tree I would be pretty pleased with myself.

</comment><comment><USER7> Working from home is tough if you have a 4 year old and a 1 year old that continuously long for attention. I haven't quite figured out how to balance that need with the need for long concentration spans ... so for now (and because my employer expects it on the vast majority of days), it's off to the office for me.</comment>


Is It Rude to Touch a Robot's Butt? - <AUTHOR> http://motherboard.vice.com/read/is-it-rude-to-touch-a-robots-butt <comment><AUTHOR> I wonder, if a robot asks you to kick it over, how would that make you feel?

Would adding googly eyes and non functional arms to remotely controlled CCTV cameras or car speeding cameras make us feel better about them, or less likely to vandalise them?

<comment><USER2> > _Would adding googly eyes and non functional arms to remotely controlled > CCTV cameras or car speeding cameras_

You _don 't_?</comment></comment>


Gethostbyname_r() - <AUTHOR> http://stochasticgeometry.wordpress.com/2009/01/29/gethostbyname_r/ A quick rant about gethostbyname_r() being a pain in libfreeradius-client. <comment><USER2> You shouldn't be using gethostbyname anyway -- it's a deprecated interface. And you _definitely_ shouldn't be using gethostbyname_r -- it's not even defined by POSIX.</comment>


Commander – Sublime Text/Atom-Like Command Palette for Chrome - <AUTHOR> http://ssundarraj.me/commander/ <comment><USER2> Why do chrome always get the cool plugins...

Maybe, I should consider making a browser change

<comment><AUTHOR> What are you using now?

<comment><USER2> Firefox Developer Edition primarily because of the theme :)</comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: Why is Europe doing a lot to penalize the Big Five with taxes and laws? - <AUTHOR> Looking at the 'Digital Europe' website, I get the feeling this is as much about Europe 'getting some of the pie' as much as it as about ethics. <comment><USER2> Given that Apple, Amazon, and Google together pay less taxes than a middle size company thanks to their "fiscal optimisation", the answer is pretty simple ;)

<comment><AUTHOR> I sometimes wonder why they are penalized for being that innovative and forward thinking. They followed the paradigm of capitalism and they mostly play by the rules. A few grey areas but I don't be embarrassed to say that I respect and trust Apple, Google, and Amazon.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> FAANG is a cancer on society (ask the Rohinga) and they don't pay their taxes. The same is true for IKEA & Starbucks but their damage is at least limited to loss of tax revenues (double Irish with a Dutch sandwich etc).

The damage FAANG does (and how their toxic business-model is copied by EU start-ups) deserves imo this intervention by regulation. But yes it's not disputable that this is also an attempt to level the playing field for local companies.

I think EU is more technophobic than the US (and Asia) because there are many that still remember the horrors of the Stasi. Many don't want to embrace the Silicon Valley & Asian surveillance capitalism. Disruption (by moving fast and breaking things) is quite a disgusting to many of us ... and the rise of right-wing populism (globally) sure is rooted in this ignorance by technologists (to a large extent).

<comment><USER4> How is Netflix a cancer though?

<comment><USER3> I've been using netflix for a bit over a year, just cancelled it this fall.

From what I can see the content is mostly shallow (Hollywood over TCP). Despite them being a global player they totally lack local content. There is a total lack of great French, German, Italian, Spanish, Chinese, Korean content (not there would be a lack of good local conent) and hardly anything that is critical of the US. So it's just another US propaganda channel to make the hypocritical US come across as a country with great values (when they're the most vile and terrorist country in the world today).

Also, there is no way of knowing who Netflix shares my search/watch history with. And I have 0 doubt that this info is in the hands of multiple entities we've no idea about.</comment></comment></comment>


SaltConf17 – Orchestration with network devices: challenges and solutions - <AUTHOR> https://speakerdeck.com/mirceaulinic/saltconf-2017-orchestration-with-network-devices-challenges-and-solutions <comment><AUTHOR> The video is not available yet, I will update when ready.</comment>


Ask HN: Has anyone undergone stem cell treatment for auto-immune disease? - <AUTHOR> I am asking because I have Ankylosing Spondylitis and it is seriously reducing my quality of life. I have been considering to go for stem cell or similar (NK cell TR cell etc) treatment for 6 months now but am very apprehensive.
There is anecdotal evidence that my condition can be "cured" (at least for 3 years at a time) with stem cell treatment and there are some phase 1, 2 & 3 studies out of China [1][2] (that aim) to back this up. That said I am also aware of the risks and don't want to make a bad situation worse especially considering that I have reduced the conditions negative effects from an 8/10 to 3/10 using diet. Google is practically ineffective for research as it is polluted with companies offering treatment who are heavy on hype and light on evidence.
I'm curious to hear first or second hand experience of stem cell treatment for auto-immune conditions from the HN community. Please let us know about the condition, the treatment, the clinic and the outcome.
[1] https://sci-hub.tw/10.3892/etm.2017.4687 [2] https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT02809781?term=stem+cell&cond=Ankylosing+Spondylitis&rank=4 <comment><USER3> My mom, my little brother and I also have Ankylosing spondylitis and in my country we get free and the best possible treatment. With that in mind, there is no cure and there is not even much effort put into research of a cure. But with a good treatment plan your daily life quality can improve a lot.

I have earlier asked my doctor about stem cell treatment, but my doctor says this is very experimental and lacks a good amount of good research. And since Ankylosing Spondylitis isn't exactly life threatening, it is not worth it.

Currently I take NSAIDs, especially newer medicines like Vimovo [https://www.vimovo.com/](https://www.vimovo.com/) helps a lot, but is not something you should take every day. I take it mostly during the long winter months here in Norway, because low temperature makes me really stiff. Chat with your doctor about options here. My mom get tumor necrosis factor-alpha (TNFα) blockers, she says it helps her, but I've said no for now as I don't want to weaken my immune system and I can live with the pain I have now.

Another thing that really helps is regular exercise, you probably already know about it, but you are probably also like me, that just starting with exercise is just difficult. Anyway, you should exercise 3-4 times a week with minimum 30 minutes of sweating. For me it helps a lot when my back is really stiff. And as part of our awesome public health treatment we all get 4 weeks of sick leave annually. Where we travel as group to Turkey / Spain and go through an exercise plan. That is really something that has helped me to still be able to work 100%, You should do something similar even if it cost you money.

<comment><USER4> Just a tangential headsup for others if they are paying for vimovo (out of pocket, or significant co-pay).

Vimovo is a combination of two generics (naproxen & esomeprezol) delayed release. You can probably get OTC versions of the two pills for much cheaper than what Vimovo charges.

This drug falls into (IMO) ethically grey area in terms of drug pricing & marketing; on the one hand, it is (was?) priced much higher than the individual generics that are part of the combination; on the other hand, it is a convenience.

Horizon pharma, which markets the drug, is not the cleanest of the bunch either [1,2] .. They have a really good understanding of the healthcare market, and know exactly how to game it.

[1] [https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-04-06/when- thes...](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-04-06/when-these-new- pharma-bros-show-up-drug-prices-tend-to-go-monumentally-higher)

[2] [https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnlamattina/2018/03/15/physic...](https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnlamattina/2018/03/15/physicians- and-patients-finally-avoiding-horizons-expensive-low-value-pain-drugs-duexis- and-vimovo/)

(edit: added 2nd link)

<comment><USER5> Naproxen (anti-inflammatory) isn't the kind of thing that you want to be on long-term, if it can be avoided, either. I have just been diagnosed with autoimmune psoriatic arthritis. I had three months of Naproxen, which made it possible to walk a couple of miles each day, but they were basically handed out as a "Here, this should take down the inflammation, now wait for your specialist appointment."

Having said that, I'm not sure Naproxen is any worse than the Prednisolone (steroid) tablets I'm now on for two months while I wait for the Methotrexate (nasty cytotoxic) to work.

If there's a stem cell treatment on the horizon, I'd love to hear about it.

<comment><USER6> Naproxen is vastly superior to prednisone.

The side effects from prednisone are wretched, and long term use is way worse than the impact of naproxen.

I was on nsaids for a decade due to poorly constructed skeleton. I only moved off because I became tolerant to them.

<comment><USER7> Naproxen can restrict blood flow to the kidneys so need to be cautious in the long term.

<comment><USER6> Yeah, but compared to prednisone it's water :)

The NSAIDs are all remarkably safe, as opposed to steroids, and the non- steroidal non-NSAIDs (wtf thought it was good to make NSAID mean just a specific group??).

I'm on Celebrex, which is much more exciting in its side effect profile, but is still preferable to prednisone :-/

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Anecdotal, and not answering the parent's question, but may be useful to someone, so I'll leave it here. Someone close to me was diagnosed with Ankylosing Spondylitis and found that swimming essentially erased the symptoms.

This person was diagnosed in her 30ies. Her GP suggested that, along with maintaining a good diet, she learn proper swimming technique and start swimming daily. She has been swimming daily for the last 40 years and has essentially not suffered from any symptoms for decades, except when she's had to take breaks due to either travelling or other health reasons.

Obviously, no A/B testing was done here, and I do not know how this could translate to someone else. But maybe, just maybe, it could help someone reading this?

Also, swimming is a rather pleasant form of exercise in my experience (though I do not suffer from AS). So assuming there are no counter-indications, folks may want to give it a try!

<comment><USER9> I agree completely. Diet and low impact exercise/stretching are the big ones.

I was diagnosed with AS as a teenager and recall spending months at a time on crutches with swollen ankles and knees (having a fluid drained and replaced with cortisone injections), at times it affected my finger joints, and in my twenties and early thirties my lower back. Throughout most of these years, particularly early on, Naprosyn was my goto solution.

Up until about 2 years ago, I couldn't imagine getting a solid night sleep without some kind of lower back pain waking me, and putting my socks/shoes on of a morning generally involved sitting or laying on a bed and straining to pull my feet up to reach them.

I'm not big on swimming, but in the past couple of years have taken up regular Yoga and this has had huge benefits for my lower back (and state of mind).

Even more fundamental to this, I believe is my change of diet. Over the past couple of years I've (gradually) reduced my sugar, dairy and meat intake and adopted a more planted based diet. I didn't dive in at the deep end, but I'm now at the put where the only dairy I now indulge in is the occasional cheese, I eat virtually no red or processed meats, might eat chicken/fish once a week at most, and sooth my sweet tongue naturally with fruits, honey, etc.

My lower back hasn't bothered me for about 18 months, I can now put my socks on while standing and I rarely, if ever, suffer joint pain elsewhere. I feel more energetic, have taken up running (ran my first 5k recently) which is something I always thought would be something beyond my reach.

I don't like to preach or say any one particular thing (if anything) is going to change your particular situation. I can only say the improvement in my quality of life over the past couple of years has been significant since changing my diet and introducing some regular movement.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> The trial you linked (as well as the two other registered trials using mesenchymal stem cells for Ankylosing Spondylitis that I found) are using allogeneic (donor) MSCs. I've been in MSC research/development for 17 years and now cryopreserve them as a service (Forever Labs YCS17). From my experience and knowledge of clinical efforts, allogeneic is limited by immuno- rejection of the MSCs after a few days. That's not to say that they can't provide benefit, but just that their window of action is limited as your body recognizes the donor cells as foreign, and weeds them out (perhaps in AS this is enough). The allogeneic issue is actually why I started banking them. I wanted my own young MSCs available to me later in life.

I'd be curious if you can get the clinic in China to expand your own MSCs. I did some MSC research in Beijing long ago. IMO they are ahead of us in many respects, but they also push the envelope more, and you need to be cautious. That goes for everywhere, actually. Just for different reasons.

<comment><AUTHOR> Do you have any links to studies re immuno-rejection? I've heard it mentioned but I've also heard the opposite from the likes of the stem cell clinic in Panama.

<comment><USER10> Sure.

[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29273086](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29273086) [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30149650](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30149650)

It definitely needs more study.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks. I find it curious as Neil Riordan from the Stem Cell Clinic in Panama says the exact opposite (I think in this video but I haven't had time to find it [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLKOddCPs9I](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLKOddCPs9I)). I can't make up my mind if he's a huckster or not. Based on my investigation through my network (3 degrees of separation) he seems to be legit but of course that is difficult to confirm.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> I have AS as well! Sadly, I have not even researched stem cell treatment so I cannot help with your question. But if I may ask one of my own - what diet have you followed that has helped you with your symptoms. Also, are you taking biological drugs like Humira or Enbrel?

<comment><USER12> Any idea what Humira costs with an "average" insurance in the US?

<comment><USER13> With 60% specialty copay its something around 3,000 I month I think. If you become part of their ambassador program they may offer to cover up to ~$16k of those costs per year. Doing that also requires some assistance from the health insurance program to cover it all in a certain way before Humira will cover anything. Took a lot of calls.

Other things I'd recommend: Dedicated medical fridge with internal temp monitors, remote infrared temp gauge to measure package on arrival.

Figures may be a tiny bit off here, going from memory.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> I can't help, but I can guarantee you that getting unlicensed medical advice from web developers won't make things better.

<comment><USER15> It can absolutely make things better. I have received lots of good medical advice in this way, with the philosophy that asking alone can't hurt. However I have also weighed the advice as to possible risk. In addition I've tried lots of things that didn't work for me, like diets, sleep patterns, and even some medications.

IMO in order for quality of care to improve across the board, it's important to acknowledge that there is some signal in the noise in situations like this. Overall I think most of us can trust ourselves. Especially if we also have access to medical professionals, many of whom will in practice shrug and say "it's worth a try if you like."

<comment><USER14> It can also make things actively worse - it's not just additional information, but potentially disinformation.

<comment><USER16> "Disinformation" typically means something intended to mislead[1], as opposed to "misinformation" which is merely wrong, not intentionally malicious. I doubt anyone here is intentionally trying to harm others with their advice...

1: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disinformation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disinformation)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> Please call Fred Hutch Cancer Research Center (w/ Univ of Wash & Seattle Cancer Care Alliance) and arrange a consultation. Just see what's what.

I had an allogeneic bone marrow transplant to cure aplastic anemia. 30+ years ago, before they'd isolated stem cells. While methods and tech have _greatly improved_ since, transplants are still an ass kicking.

One common side effect is graft versus host disease. It really, really sucks.

I've known many other patients. One good friend has had two transplants. Pretty much all of us did it as a last resort.

Ankylosing spondylitis sounds terrible. I can't imagine.

As for diet & nutrition, I've gotten great benefit from following Dr Terry Wahls protocol.

Godspeed.

</comment><comment><USER18> There are early evidence from USC medical school that fasting regenerates new immune cells from stem cells [0] and some early evidence that it can reduce the impact of some autoimmune diseases like MS [1].

[0] [https://news.usc.edu/63669/fasting-triggers-stem-cell- regene...](https://news.usc.edu/63669/fasting-triggers-stem-cell-regeneration- of-damaged-old-immune-system/)

[1] [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4899145/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4899145/)

edit: typo and clarity

<comment><USER19> Feel like I should also mention ProLon FMD: [https://prolonfmd.com/fasting- mimicking-diet/](https://prolonfmd.com/fasting-mimicking-diet/)

Invented by Valter Longo, one of the authors of the study referenced in [1].

</comment></comment><comment><USER20> I have Ankylosing Spondylitis with peripheral manifestations in knee, elbow. I did an autologous stem cell injection into my peripheral joints with no effect.

<comment><AUTHOR> Do you know what protocol for cell preparation and administration was followed?

<comment><USER20> Now I see that you're OP and looking through the comments, I just want to say I feel for you. I am 26, when I was in high school I was highly active with a lot of exercise. Due to the peripheral manifestations of my AS I can't really exercise much any more without inflaming my arm or my knee. I think some other posters here raise great points about diet and exercise (There's been a lot of talk about starch and AS, see kickas.org, google Specific-carbohydrate diet, look up the work of dr. Alan Ebringer from King's college london).

Also, you may find articles by Dr. James T Rosenbaum interesting: [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3204318/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3204318/) . I'm not a doctor but experimenting with diet and trying to be good to your gut I have found to be helpful.

I have a whole bunch more thoughts on our disease, but I just want to say it can be rough, I'm sorry you're going through this, and you are not alone friend.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for you kind words and support. I'm sorry you have to share this experience too. I know there are many people suffering all sorts of ailments, many much much worse than AS which I remind myself of when I'm down. That said I don't need to tell you how frustrating this can be. The hope of a cure sustains my generally positive outlook on life. I hope for all of us that we make massive leaps in understanding our immune system and genetic makeup better in the coming years.

I have been following all the research and advice you mention. I'm absolutely positive that we are only scratching the surface (Dr Ebringer etc). It seems that the link between klebsiella and AS may be on the right path but not a totally accurate diagnosis. Based on sequencing my own biome (i used Viome) and some reading I have done it is more probable that there are a whole host of bacteria that interplay to create an inflammatory reaction. I'm almost certain based on some papers I've read that there is also a corruption in the stem cells that create the immune system white blood cells themselves which would render autologous transfusions useless. This is both exciting and daunting considering the risks of side effects like graft-versus-host disease which sounds truly terrifying. This is why I'm so apprehensive to go for experimental treatment. Life can suck during a flare-up (which I've managed to dampen with diet) but overall it could definitely get and stay worse. Hearing anecdotal evidence of people essentially being in full remission on the other hand has piqued my interest. It truly is a catch-22.

I would be curious to hear more about your thoughts on AS.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> I have other autoimmune disorders and I've looked into getting stem cell treatments outside the U.S because of limitations of what American doctors are willing to do. I found a center in Panama with American trained physicians where you pay out of pocket for treatment (~$25k+ for a week of treatment of umbilical cord stem cells). [https://www.cellmedicine.com/](https://www.cellmedicine.com/) You can apply for treatment on their website and if the doctors believe they can help they will let you know.

When I talked about the tradeoffs of this treatment with traditional American physicians they said they are concerned about stem cells multiplying into the wrong thing. They claim they need more studies showing safety and effectiveness.

I'm undecided if I will go this route, mainly because of cost. In the meantime I'm focusing on dialing in my diet (Wahl's protocol has been mentioned here), meditating (hypnosis has been mentioned here), and intermittent fasting (which has been shown to help improve one's own stem cell generation).

<comment><USER22> You may find this interesting, too:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3pK0dccQ38&feature=youtu.be...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3pK0dccQ38&feature=youtu.be&t=2054)

</comment></comment><comment><USER23> My official diagnosis is _atypical cystic fibrosis._ I manage it with diet and lifestyle. I'm off all medication.

You say you have seen big improvement with diet. Let me echo what others here are saying: If you aren't getting regular, gentle exercise (walking, hydrotherapy), try adding exercise to your regimen before seeking more drastic measures, like stem cell treatment.

The lymphatic system is powered in part by exercise. It is how the body removes wastes from the tissues.

I spent several years doing a great deal of walking, often several hours a day. It took a long time to get better, but I have seen much more dramatic improvement than I ever expected.

Diet is a major aspect of managing my condition, but walking plays a really critical role. If you aren't exercising regularly, you are actively denying your body the opportunity to take out the trash. This isn't good for anyone. It's worse if you have a chronic condition.

<comment><AUTHOR> As I mentioned elsewhere I get plenty of exercise. I would get more but I'm somewhat limited by AS. If I spent 6 hours on the bike I get very inflamed the week after. There seems to be a sweet spot of about an hour a day for exercise unfortunately.

</comment></comment><comment><USER24> I suppose HN is not a good place to get answers for questions like this. There are plenty of AS support groups on Facebook, people there have more information.

<comment><USER23> Most "support groups" for specific medical conditions are awful. They frequently wind up being places you can't actually talk about what's effective lest you offend or hurt the feelings of the sickest and most miserable members who typically are willfully ignorant and broadcast a "Why bother? It won't really help anyway" attitude.

I'm not sure how to find or create a group for really discussing pro active caretaking in the face of a serious medical condition. There seems to be no place that actually gets done. You get that kind of discussion amongst very healthy people -- weight lifters, marathon runners etc -- looking to push for extra performance. You don't get it among people who are supposed to be terribly sick and defying that expectation.

<comment><USER25> +1 from personal experience using such forums/support groups

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> My friend did for MS, she had to go to Russia. It was a chemo + stem treatment. Quite successful. Also the people who were getting the same treatment did really well, except one old lady, who died from complications.

<comment><USER27> I feel I have to say here that I heard from a colleague of a group of people who recieved stem-cell treatments also there, and they all got cancer. Second- hand anecdote but there you are.

</comment></comment><comment><USER28> I had Multiple Myeloma and as part of my treatment, I underwent 2 autologous stem cell transplants. The process was pretty grueling and it took a couple of years to get back to my normal self but I certainly believe it was the right decision for me (given the results).

I am not familiar with your specific disease so I cannot speak to how effective this would be for your situation but I would advise, as I am sure you are doing, taking the counsel of a few good doctors with experience treating similar cases and getting their advice. Assuming your disease is anything like Multiple Myeloma, there is probably no consensus on the treatment protocol so you will likely have to go with your gut. What pushed me over the edge to choose transplantation was a discussion I had with another patient who told me her doctor had ascribed her survival (vs the rest of her cohort who had all succumubed) to having taken the most aggressive approach to treatment. I decided that since I was young, strong and in reasonably good health, I should press my advantage and take a similar path.

As another patient said to me, "this is not something you would volunteer for but it is something you can definitely get through". I am happy to talk to you or anyone else that needs more detail on my experience, encouragement or just a listening ear. Just leave a comment below and we can figure out how to connect.

Good luck and Godspeed!

</comment><comment><USER29> Another adjuvant therapy to consider is the 3-5 day fast or fasting mimicking diet. [https://www.foundmyfitness.com/episodes/valter- longo-2](https://www.foundmyfitness.com/episodes/valter-longo-2)

Essentially, during the fast, the body cannibalizes a significant percentage 30%? (IIRC) of immune cells. Once the fast completes, the refeeding cycle regenerates brand new cells from stem cells which results in resetting auto- immune symptoms.

For serious cases of necessary therapy, they do this on a 25 day (normal) /5 (fast) cycle.

Reviews say that the book that Dr Valter Longo promotes is a big ad for his fasting-mimicking diet kit, but they have a brief screen shot of the fasting- mimicking diet protocol which is:

      day 1 - 1100 calories (11/46/43% protein/fat/carb)
      day 2-5 - 720 calories (9/44/47% protein/fat/carb) macronutrient breakdown.

This works out to: day 1 - 30g protein, 56g fat, 118g carb day 2-5 - <USER2> protein, 35g fat, 85g carb

</comment><comment><USER30> I didn't see you mention TNF inhibitors. Have you tried Humira, Simponi, Enbrel, etc? Those took me from bed-ridden with a cane to currently training for a half marathon (over the past 8 years of treatment).

(Since you didn't mention it) Have you discussed the treatment with your rheumatologist?

<comment><AUTHOR> No way I'm risking my health with those class of drugs. All or nothing for me. I do have a rheumatologist but he is not very helpful unfortunately

<comment><USER31> Biologics are amazing, without them I'm almost immobile and in constant pain.

Being able to work with your doctors is important, I suggest you look for another.

You're not getting better, you won't ever get better, but you can slow the disease down with medication, exercise and diet, in that order.

<comment><AUTHOR> >You're not getting better, you won't ever get better, but you can slow the disease down with medication, exercise and diet, in that order.

We have a very different view on health and medicine. You might be right but I'll never stop trying.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER32> Have you tried hypnosis? I've suffered from face psoriasis for years. Tried every treatment, every ointment, everything I could think of. It frustrated me that my brain was sending signals to over-produce skin cells on my face.

The trick with hypnosis is that you have to be willing to suspend your disbelief with it. If you go in thinking this is B.S. and that you can't be hypnotized, it will not be effective.

I played along and did my best to truly visualize and imagine what I was told to imagine, and within 2 weeks my psoriasis cleared and has not come back in years. Have not continued with hypnosis either. All prescription medication was short-term. Hypnosis has given me the only lasting relief.

<comment><USER33> Seconded, please do elaborate on this.

</comment></comment><comment><USER34> My late Dad had that so I checked myself for it. It sounds like there's a golden period (of around 2 years since the first consistent back pain) where the development of the condition can be stopped. Have you passed that period?

<comment><AUTHOR> 18 years now unfortunately. Only just diagnosed though

</comment></comment><comment><USER35> My wife had HSCT to treat MS a year and a half ago. So far some symptoms went away, others stayed, but most importantly she hasn't got worse. Fingers crossed it will stay that way.

<comment><AUTHOR> That's great news. My bro had MS. It's much more serious than AS. As I am intimately familiar with MS by proxy I'm curious which aspects improved and which ones didn't?

</comment></comment><comment><USER36> I also have Ankylosing Spondylitis.

Have you tried all biologics? It took me a long time. But Cimizia has been working wonders for me.

If you live in the Bay Area I would highly recommend visiting the AS Clinic at UCSF.

</comment><comment><USER37> I'm considering it. I have Myasthenia Gravis. Infusions are covered by insurance and are helping maintain a good quality of life. But it would be nice to be cured.

</comment><comment><USER38> Out of curiosity, have you tried a daily supplement of turmeric? It takes a few weeks but it appears to have a good effect of helping keeping the immune system healthy ([https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=turmeric+inflammation+s...](https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=turmeric+inflammation+study)). It helps me maintain some resilience even when I go off diet for my condition and generally helps "detrigger" my inflammation.

Now to the question in point. What comes to my mind for fellow "hackers" is how to test / quantify test the results of any such treatment. Does it only work for ~3 months before effects begin to wane? Before doing any such treatment I'd personally want to know and have collected a decent amount of personal information including specific blood cell counts, CRC, various interleukins, on a daily basis. Which alas is almost impossible for a person of normal means currently. I know a few people who've done stem cell treatment for knee / soft tissue injuries and they indicated it helped. That was from a stateside company.

My take would be to keep studying it and with the momentum in the research area to wait a year or two before seriously considering it. Hopefully some of the "quackery" in the field will be shaken out. Of course, IANAD, but I also believe each patient should be involved in their long term care and become as informed as possible.

</comment><comment><USER39> I'm sorry you are suffering from this. Unfortunately, I have nothing to offer about stem cells.

Have you tried low-dose naltrexone?

Furthermore, have you ever gone to an infectious disease specialist? Many of these autoimmune conditions can be traced back to latent viral infections which can cause one's immune system to go into overdrive, thereby attacking one's own body. I myself went through this experience.

<comment><USER40> I would like to hear more about resources regarding the latent viral infection theory. I've been helped a bit by low dose naltrexone in the past and I've been reading a bit about things like vagus nerve infections, but if you've been through treatment I'd like to know what your experience was like, if you don't mind.

<comment><USER39> I've been dealing with Hashimoto's symptoms for more than 5 years now (and possibly Addison's). All my thyroid and adrenal hormones were completely out of whack and I suffered greatly. Went on various combinations of hormone replacement, tried various diets, spent tranches of money on supplements and alternative therapies, and have seen close to about 20 different specialists. Everything I've tried at best gave me clues about my condition but has never brought me anywhere close to normal. I suppose because I was never treating the root cause of it all.

Recently I went to an internist who ran an infectious disease panel on me. HHV-6 came up very high. Since then, I've gone on valganciclovir (Valcyte), an anti-viral that is not FDA-approved yet for treating HHV-6 but has shown promising results from studies[1]. Stanford has also been at the forefront of this research when it comes to treating CFS patients with high titers of HHV-6.

I don't have a success story yet but it's been extremely promising so far. I've only been on this treatment option for a month and my sleep has never been better, it has been moving the needle on some of my most stubborn of symptoms, and I finally feel like I'm making progress.

It also makes sense as a root cause. I donated my kidney about 5 years ago and that's when everything started to go downhill. Even though HHV-6 is a virus that almost every human being on the planet has, my compromised immune system at the time likely allowed the virus to re-activate to become a persistent chronic infection.

I hope this helps. In general, there has been surmounting evidence of viruses behind many chronic diseases. Just the other day there was post on Hacker News linking Alzheimer to the Herpes virus[2].

1\. [http://hhv-6foundation.org](http://hhv-6foundation.org)

2\. [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18265115](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18265115)

<comment><USER41> Why did you donate your kidney ?

<comment><USER39> To my father who had chronic kidney disease (Stage 5)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER42> I don't know about stem cell treatments but for anyone with an auto-immune condition I would recommend trying the AIP diet. It was a game changer for me and my health improved rather fast after starting it. Anecdotally I've heard an adult stomach heals in around two years so I'm sticking to a strict AIP diet for at least that long before adding in other foods.

</comment><comment><USER43> I never heard of stem cell treatment for auto-immune diseases at all. Got two conditions myself, I would not go for such a 'radical' treatment at this point though as I do not feel I suffer enough to try it out.

I will read up on it though.

But for know I'll just ask a question. What are the actual risks of stem cell treatment?

<comment><AUTHOR> Look up Graft-versus-host disease [https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Graft-versus- host_disease](https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Graft-versus-host_disease)

</comment></comment><comment><USER44> Hi. I have AS and went from 9.5/10 to 0.1/10 with diet. Why not just continue with the diet? It has zero negative side effects and is free. Would love to learn what you have done to change your diet. Maybe I can help you with the final tweaks.

<comment><USER44> Btw I don't check this comment board often -- if you want to get in touch send me a DM on instagram @wanderlustandcompass But rest assured that there is light at the end of the tunnel. I never thought I'd be able to walk without pain again. Now I run 10k a week and do weights at the gym and even do kungfu. Stay motivated and I'm sure you will get better :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER25> People with severe autoimmune conditions have had success treating them with a carnivore diet. I'm not recommending it, just introducing information. Jordan Peterson's daughter suffered severe juvenile arthritis (replacements of ankle/hip before 18th birthday) and is a proponent. Her story is interesting.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXPqIDx3_DM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXPqIDx3_DM)

</comment><comment><USER45> I've had some experience with Humira for my Psoreasis. I have been able to be off the meds for almost 5 years, after around 9 months on it, due to work circumstances, that made it impossible for the self-injections.

</comment><comment><USER46> It's been suggested that i might have this as well.

could you talk about what you had to go through for a diagnosis?

Literally every morning is hell. Should i just say fuck it and move to a warm climate?

<comment><AUTHOR> Go to get a test for hla-b27 gene and inflammation makers at a hospital. Try get a referral to a rheumatologist. They will do the tests and also send you for xray of critical joints that are affected.

</comment></comment><comment><USER47> There is a person saying they dramatically reduced their pain eating the carnivore diet at meatheals.com with this condition.

Again this is just one person.

<comment><USER21> Jordan Peterson, a popular professor, and his daughter are following a carnivore diet with self reported good results. Doctors generally do not recommend this diet but it seems to be reducing autoimmune issues for a small group of people. There is speculation that this diet could be working not only because of the elimination of the offending foods, but because of caloric restriction, which has been shown to have good effects on several health conditions.

</comment></comment><comment><USER48> 5 Natural Approaches To An Autoimmune Disease

[http://www.knowthecause.com/index.php/contributor- blog/46-ky...](http://www.knowthecause.com/index.php/contributor-blog/46-kyle- drew/4814-5-natural-approaches-to-an-autoimmune-disease)

</comment><comment><USER49> Many new immune system tools are being developed. MinION is now used for T-Cell and B-Cell characterization by reading immune response to breast cancer. Can you create a AS model? [https://www.biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/early/2018/09/24/424...](https://www.biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/early/2018/09/24/424945.full.pdf)

I can send a model, Python DNA Plotter, of an Oxford nanopore DNA sequencer(MinION), shows what a Mu DNA plotter simulation may look like.

Students can now learn python programming and DNA sequencing in school, using Mu python to simulate MinION. NMSU is using MinION:[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tUtC4rcZ3w](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tUtC4rcZ3w)

MinION, how it works video:[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUb1TZvMWsw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUb1TZvMWsw) Python is the most widely used computer language: [https://codewith.mu/](https://codewith.mu/) [https://codewith.mu/en/tutorials/1.0/plotter](https://codewith.mu/en/tutorials/1.0/plotter) A cheap $1K sequencer, MinION, models immune response to immunotherapy? [https://blogs.rstudio.com/tensorflow/posts/2018-01-29-dl- for...](https://blogs.rstudio.com/tensorflow/posts/2018-01-29-dl-for-cancer- immunotherapy/)

Can we then create a cheaper CRISPR test? To cassify AS? Could a CRISPR test correlate immune response to TCR/CRISPR? [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAhjPd4uNFY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAhjPd4uNFY) What works best (chemo vs other) per immune response DNA?

See Mammoth Bio CRISPR paper test. [https://mammoth.bio/](https://mammoth.bio/) NCGR has trained NHS/UK in DNA diagnostics in this internship. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tUtC4rcZ3w](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tUtC4rcZ3w) [http://www.nminbre.org/index.php/2018-inbre-summer- internshi...](http://www.nminbre.org/index.php/2018-inbre-summer-internship- page) I would study Machine Learning as it is now used for DNA. [https://github.com/kjaisingh/high-school-guide-to-machine- le...](https://github.com/kjaisingh/high-school-guide-to-machine-learning) I used AI/shotgun sequencing on the US Human Genome Project.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for all the links and info. I will spend some time exploring them. Much appreciated

</comment></comment><comment><USER50> I had never heard of AS but for what it's worth I think that we are all facing a host of 21st century autoimmune diseases that may be caused (in part) by our diet and environmental factors.

Although my situation in no way compares to yours, I think I may have a condition called leaky gut after a lifetime of eating legumes, nightshades and specifically proteins like gluten which are part of the _lectin_ family (or something along those lines - I'm not a doctor). Also beer, lots of beer, which certainly didn't help. It may be exacerbated by molecules in genetically modified foods that normally don't appear in our diet, and by pesticides/herbicides like glyphosate that wreak havoc on our gut flora. These are present in large quantities in processed foods high in soy and corn, especially fast food. IMHO this is why so many young people are getting type II diabetes and obesity.

I just did a quick search for the overlap between our conditions and stumbled onto this page:

[http://stopautoimmunity.com/en/2016/11/20/ankylosing- spondyl...](http://stopautoimmunity.com/en/2016/11/20/ankylosing-spondylitis- there-is-hope/)

I highly recommend glutamine. It repairs the single-cell lining of the intestine to prevent microbes from crossing over into the body cavity. In my case I've been suffering from acne for the last couple of years (I'm 41), severe fatigue and joint pain from heavy gym sessions. I've only taken glutamine a couple of days and my acne has begun clearing up.

I'm wondering if autoimmune diseases (like arthritis) might be caused in part by our immune systems constantly fighting microbes anywhere our cells have contact with the outside world, so for example mucus membranes, our digestive tracts and our joints. Any supplement that strengthens those like glucosamine/chondroitin MIGHT have a therapeutic effect on these conditions.

Also CBD oil can work for inflammation, but you might want to wait until you're older to try it as the last thing you need at your age is dependency on a mood-altering substance. Also there has been little literature about the longterm benefits or side effects of it as it has been illegal in the US for so long. I really view it as a remedy for older folks.

If it was me, I would try holistic/lifestyle changes such as avoiding foods that cause inflammation, staying away from opioids, strengthening bone and connective tissue (see people like Mike O'Hearn's videos on YouTube), etc etc before trying an experimental treatment like stem cell therapy. Just remember that western medicine can be out of touch when it comes to complex systems and holistic effects. But, I am optimistic that great progress within these large search spaces will happen in the next 5-10 years from advances in AI and having big data to train on, if you can maintain your health until then. It sounds like you are on the right path with your diet. Best of luck to you!

<comment><AUTHOR> I am convinced that we will discover many auto-immune diseases are the same disease manifesting in different ways due to environmental factors.

I have researched all the aspects you mention thoroughly already and I can't agree more with your closing paragraph. Spot on!

</comment></comment><comment><USER51> Any experiences with stem cell treatments for nerve injuries?

</comment><comment><USER52> You should ask a doctor about his opinions (while there are a great many smart people on HN this isn't the right medium).

Worse, if someone else finds your thread and takes the suggestions here without doing proper research.

<comment><USER53> When searching use site:.edu for medical research.

From the experience of having to go through huge medical situations for my son and younger sister (Both passed away from cancer), a niece with extremely aggressive MS you need more then a few minute conversation with a doctor.

Doctors are amazing and great but you yourself have to be your own expert. Once you start having more then one doctor you need to not make assumptions. Also make sure you have someone else with you at the doctor meetings. I can't tell you how many times someone I trusted caught something we missed or remembered the doctor conversation better then I did.

a) NEVER assume that the doctor remembers every detail or even major issues about your case.

b) NEVER assume that that doctors talk to each other about your case (Because they never do except when it is time to make a decision and someone will always just defer to the other).

Treat each doctor like they are a silo of expertise and that you make sure you ALWAYS communicate what the other doctors have told you. They only have a few minutes so make sure you have things written down and ready to share. Doctor A said this and Doctor B said this .... Pro-Tip - NEVER tell any doctors diagnosis from other doctors unless they specifically ask you. You might lead them in their thinking and they go down the wrong path and miss something.

c) NEVER assume that they know everything. They don't, but they really do try to be the most informed they can be.

So it is okay to have questions about research or treatments they you have learned about. Never make a suggestion or a diagnosis about yourself it puts the doctors into a bad mood or defensive.

d) Find one of the doctors or Nurse Practitioners (these nurses really normally run the whole show in the office on behalf of the doctor) and tell them you need someone to help you if you have a question.

I have found that when things are very serious that someone will have compassion and go the extra mile for you. Because when you or a loved one are sick you can make a lot of emotional decisions that aren't beneficial. Have someone that you can talk things through so you can make sure your thinking through the facts correctly. They don't need to worry about making decision just to help fact check you or correct something medically that you messed up. Just don't over whelm them with multiple of questions limit it to just a few and something that doesn't take a lot of time.

Praying and hoping that something new will cure you soon.

</comment></comment><comment><USER54> Hi, I know this isn't what you're asking for but after reading that it's "seriously reducing my quality of life." I would suggest you read "The Divided Mind" by Dr. John Sarno.

It's just a book and maybe it can help you get better fast ( you can even find the pdf on Google too I'm sure if you aren't ready to spend anything). The best part is reading the book alone can help restore the quality of your life as long as you keep an open mind. I didn't suffer from the same condition as you but I've been in a similar situation and this book changed my life (and another HNer who I recommend it too).

Also if you're suffering from back pain please also lookup "Healing back pain" by the same author.

Sorry for the unsolicited advice but I'm just trying to be helpful having been in a similar situation once. Try it before going for something so radical first. The only thing you have to lose is spending some time reading the book.

<comment><USER54> Since I can't edit my original comment I'll just add that people have had a lot of relief from ankylosis spondylitis using these books [1], [2].

Yes it may not cure you fully but it may help you to regain your quality of life like it happened for me or this HNer [3] and thousands of others who thought the had some incurable illness but healed themselves after just reading a simple book.

[1] [https://zacalstin.com/2017/06/30/how-i-overcame- ankylosing-s...](https://zacalstin.com/2017/06/30/how-i-overcame-ankylosing- spondylitis/)

[2] [http://www.tmswiki.org/forum/threads/big-improvements-in- ank...](http://www.tmswiki.org/forum/threads/big-improvements-in-ankylosing- spondylitis-pain.14896/)

[3] [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18151061](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18151061)</comment></comment>


Microsoft: Where the PC is Headed: Plus is the New 'Post' - <AUTHOR> http://blogs.technet.com/b/microsoft_blog/archive/2011/08/19/where-the-pc-is-headed-plus-is-the-new-post.aspx

<comment><USER2> Well, he didn't say anything about where the PC is headed, but I wish I had a ticket to the Build conference.

Hopefully they'll be showing some of the streaming OS technology and get that built into Win8</comment>


What If Steve Jobs Hadn't Returned To Apple In 1997? - <AUTHOR> http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/11/26/steve-jobs-apple-1997/

<comment><USER2> So Arrington was a lawyer, and a hot shot one at that. That may help explain why he rubs some people the wrong way - speaking as an LLB myself.

I love Steve Jobs, but I think this article is disingenuous on a couple of counts. One, these disruptive industries that Jobs "created" were coming anyway. He's riding the wave, not creating it. Two, the iPod was in development at Apple before he returned (IIRC).

Steve's talent (IMHO) is to get the best out of creative people, to charm people with his reality distortion field, and to tweak things slightly to make them much better. That third point reminds me of what John Cleese said of Graham Chapman:

 _[he] contributed comparatively little in the way of direct writing. Rather, the Pythons have said that his biggest contribution in the writing room was an intuition as to what was funny. John Cleese said in an interview that one of Chapman's great attributes was "his weird takes on things." In writing sessions Chapman "would lob in an idea or a line from out in left field into the engine room, but he could never be the engine", Cleese said. In the Dead Parrot sketch, written mostly by Cleese, the frustrated customer was initially trying to return a faulty toaster to a shop. Chapman would ask "How can we make this madder?", and then came up with the idea that returning a dead Norwegian Blue parrot to a pet shop might make a more interesting subject than a toaster._ <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graham_Chapman#Monty_Python>

<comment><USER3> _Steve's talent (IMHO) is to get the best out of creative people, to charm people with his reality distortion field, and to tweak things slightly to make them much better_

Doing this is at least an order of magnitude harder than any purely technical or directly productive work. People are fickle, ever-changing, unpredictable, complex, etc. Brilliant people are even more difficult to manage. The art of surrounding yourself with great people and getting them all working together is underrated.

Even if Steve Jobs contributed nothing to the ideas that were developed (which is unlikely, based on what I've heard), he still deserves the praise for being the human gravitational well that pulled all those people to work together and create awesome products.

<comment><USER4> And do it consistently - a lot of CEOs talk about this stuff. But then when it comes near the end of the financial quarter or a big customer asks for something, or there is a rumor of a competitor the plan all changes.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Apple is a data point in one of the eternal HN debates: Ideas vs. Execution.

The functional design of the iPhone was a surprise to no one, everyone wanted it, Apple delivered.

There are many operating system, but OSX is still an asset to Apple.

It may be the case that Apple has great ideas, but they _certainly_ have great execution.

<comment><USER6> Apple not only has great technical execution, they have great design execution. There are many industries with lots of excellent companies capable of this combination (automobiles, musical instruments, film, firearms, fashion) but in software this combination is rare as hen's teeth. Thus Apple's dominance in certain markets and customer devotion.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> I must admit that this article rather made me realize that most of what Apple did is just to create some fancy looking PCs. The iPhone was revolutionary indeed, but overall the achievements seem overblown.

I still think that Steve Jobs is cool, though.

<comment><USER8> _> just to create some fancy looking PCs_

that's not true..

<comment><USER9> They are fancy looking PC's. What'd you mean "that's not true"?

<comment><USER8> i meant it's not _just_ making fancy looking PCs that got apple into what it's become today.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Maybe we should be asking, "What if Jobs didn't beg Bill on huge screen television for $100m".

<comment><USER11> To a company that still had $4 billion in cash reserves it's the equivalent of one wallstreet banker asking another for hotdog money

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> NeXT could have ended in the perfect Linux distro, open sourced, leading the Linux kernel development, making the distros environment even richer (Mac Linux for mac users, Ubuntu-Debian & similars for those who don't buy Apple hardware, Chrome OS for netbookers; and minoritary distros for the ones who tweak their own flavor.)

The world would be a better place.

The hardware? Some has been good. Some really advanced to their time. Some G4Cube-ish.

I have to admit the guy is brilliant.

<comment><USER13> NeXTSTEP wasn't based off the Linux kernel, and I think even if it had been GPL'd, it probably wouldn't have ended up that the Linux port was the preferred way to run it. Consider that OPENSTEP/Mach was contemporaneous with Red Hat Linux 4 and kernel 2.0. Everybody in the market for a desktop Linux distribution at the time would have jumped ship. If anything, the Mach 2.5 microkernel would have been stripped out in favor of a pure FreeBSD system, which would probably have resulted in Linux having the same also-ran status that the BSDs have now.</comment></comment>


Bypassing Intel Boot Guard - <AUTHOR> https://embedi.com/blog/bypassing-intel-boot-guard <comment><USER2> The most scary thing here is that in some cirsumstances it allows an attacker to make malicious code permanent:

 _" This brings an amazing opportunity for an attacker with capabilities to inject program code into BIOS: to turn Intel BG technology on manually making any modifications in BIOS permanent. It only requires configuring Intel BG by programming the chipset fuses (via pure software way) after the modification is done."_

<comment><USER3> ...and even manually reflashing the whole BIOS image with a hardware "chip clip" can't fix it? That is _really_ scary.

The only hope is that those "chipset fuses" actually can be reset via hardware (but not software, since that would defeat the point)... but that chance also seems slim.

I'm probably one of the few people to which anything advertised as "trusted" or being for "security and safety" has, instead of implying peace and bliss, taken on a much more sinister connotation: to lock you out of what you own... boot guard, secure boot, SGX, etc. All in theory can be used for the user, but in practice are just enabling walled gardens and DRM.

<comment><USER2> Yes, if it was truly for the security of the end users, they'd at least provide the end user a mechanism to unlock this stuff when things go wrong, such as a hardware jumper combined with software access code. A key principle of infosec is "availability" for authorized users. Therefore, I argue that such devices are not very secure for end users.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Site is down. Can somebody paste a cached copy?

<comment><USER5> [https://web.archive.org/web/20171006051839/https://embedi.co...](https://web.archive.org/web/20171006051839/https://embedi.com/blog/bypassing- intel-boot-guard) (Looks a bit funky tho, text and images are there, so should be fine)

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> Everything used to be open and relatively well-defined on the platform, unless my memory is colored rosey: BIOS, MBR, HDD, etc. Generally, it still is beginning with BIOS (AFAIK, you can usually disable UEFI).

But 'pre-BIOS' vendors have created a mostly proprietary, closed hodge-podge of hardware and software. I've been trying to merely identify those components and subsystems on a new computer and it's taking many hours and information is sparse. There's TPM, PTT, ME, TXT, Boot Guard, AMT, etc. etc.

All seem to serve one or more of three purposes: 1) Manageability (for corporate IT), 2) end-user control via a Root of Trust (practical only for corporate IT for the most part), and 3) Vendor control (DRM and more) via a root of trust and closed, undocumented, obscure systems.

Is there any guide to all this? Any standardization? There were and are multiple BIOS vendors, but generally I knew what a BIOS did and does.

<comment><USER7> I dunno, BIOS was pretty opaque and all the major BIOS vendors stuff was completely proprietary (and often full of bugs). The difference is that BIOS was simpler and hence easier to understand. It was also not as well-protected and if you wanted to you could extract and reverse engineer the BIOS with easily available tools. Nowadays the firmware in your machine is better protected as well as much more complex, making it harder to access and harder to understand.

<comment><USER3> The parent comment is saying "used to be", and that was actually _very_ true before the IBM PS/2 and the AT clones --- IBM published the schematics and BIOS source code for the PC, XT, and AT in the PC Technical Reference books.

[https://archive.org/details/bitsavers_ibmpcat618ferenceMar86...](https://archive.org/details/bitsavers_ibmpcat618ferenceMar86_25829277)

Even in the "AT clone" era (better known as "IBM PC Compatible"), the standards were relatively more open and there wasn't much in the way of DRM at all.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> This article is about a security flaw, and yet the website is leaking database error information. Seems safe.</comment>