Naomi Wu Arrested by Chinese Police? - <AUTHOR> https://web.archive.org/web/20190713065125/https://twitter.com/RealSexyCyborg/status/1149881998644830208 <comment><USER2> Not arrested. There was a misunderstanding, I cleared it up. In China you are often given the...opportunity to informally deal with these issues. I was not give a choice about the meeting, there is no way to know the intent and duration of these meetings, or when you will be...invited to one- so my friends acted accordingly and followed established procedure.

I just want to build things, show off my city, and it's tech. I'm doing my best to act normally, update my channel normally and not be at the center of any larger discussions likely to cause me additional difficulty.

I'm meeting with Bunnie Huang this weekend and he'll be able to verify I'm no longer in custody and in control of my accounts.

</comment><comment><USER3> According to a comment she (her account anyway) left on a YouTube video one day ago, she is now ok but can't go into detail. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSG4FvQaxsQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSG4FvQaxsQ) Screenshot [https://i.imgur.com/n5yC6II.png](https://i.imgur.com/n5yC6II.png)

</comment><comment><USER4> She does not want this made public. This post is in no one's interest other than whoever tried to get her arrested. The situation was resolved. This post is an attempt to use an archive of a past incident to harass and get her further into trouble. Please flag this shit.

<comment><AUTHOR> _This post is an attempt to use an archive of a past incident to harass and get her further into trouble._

As the person who submitted this: no, it's not. Refusing to discuss police (Chinese or otherwise) overstepping their bounds simply furthers their ability to overstep their bounds. Should we not talk about Tienanmen Square or Meng Hongwei? Pinochet? Trump's new concentration camps (after ICE vowed to not build more)? How about when Raul Castro's police pull random people off the street and disappear them? Should we not share those videos?

<comment><USER4> I don't speak for her and neither should you. No one should want someone else to take individual risks to defend your or anyone else's opinions that you claim they represent.

<comment><AUTHOR> _I don 't speak for her and neither should you. _

Oddly enough, I'm not.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Well this is concerning.

Shamir's secret is a way of splitting up a key between multiple keyholders. It seems Naomi Wu's keyholders activated, and posted this photo of her being in a police van.

It doesn't seem like she's in handcuffs though, and that's a regular street officer, not PLA. Anyone have additional context?

</comment><comment><USER6> Tweet is from July 12. I couldn't find any new info from googling.

What's the explanation for why the tweet would be deleted? (It is if you check twitter directly.) The Chinese police logged in and deleted it? I would think if her Secret Share team had to take control of her account, the first move would be to change the password.

EDIT: Seeing some other responses, perhaps she didn't want it up in the first place. Too little information to speculate.

</comment><comment><USER7> Popping in to point out that so far what we have is a picture on twitter, nothing more, and to offer a general reminder that waiting to learn details is generally better than speculation. I hope it's not the case that Wu was arrested, I wouldn't be surprised if it was, lets wait and get some confirmations before offering too much commentary.

[https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo- way/2013/09/20/224498227...](https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo- way/2013/09/20/224498227/on-the-media-presents-a-consumers-guide-to-breaking- news)

<comment><USER7> [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20464139](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20464139)

> Not arrested. There was a misunderstanding, I cleared it up.

I'll repeat for downvoters in the back: waiting to learn details is generally better than speculation.

Settle down & get the facts straight before repeating things (see point #9 in the NPR link above).</comment></comment>


Show HN: Jupiter and Its 79 Moons - <AUTHOR> https://typpo.github.io/spacekit/examples/jupiter/index.html <comment><USER2> Fantastic. Starred.

Could the library that built this ([https://typpo.github.io/spacekit/](https://typpo.github.io/spacekit/) / [https://github.com/typpo/spacekit](https://github.com/typpo/spacekit)) be used to replace [https://eyes.nasa.gov](https://eyes.nasa.gov)?

Application ideas: Wikipedia could embed something like this in astronomy pages. Or other way around, wikipedia could be integrated into the app itself if something is clicked on, a wikipedia entry comes up. Or a sidebar with artifacts in the solar system with a search+autocomplete, and clicking it zooms to it+brings up info.

So many possibilities my man. It's also smooth at the fastest speed.

TypeScript is amazing by the way. If you started it, I think you're a potential candidate to feel the benefits of it with spacekit.

</comment><comment><USER3> the wikipedia pages for moons of jupiter and saturn are quite thorough:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moons_of_Jupiter](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moons_of_Jupiter)

Zooming out in this visualization and changing the view angle a bit really helps to understand how jupiter sort of functions like a solar system vacuum cleaner, grabbing up loose objects that on multi-million year time scales happen to cross its orbit.

</comment><comment><USER4> How can I detect collision between different objects and is there any way to add custom sprites or svg elements?

</comment><comment><USER5> Any explanation for the huge gap beyond Callisto?

</comment><comment><USER6> 79? Dammit Jupiter stop hogging all the moons.</comment>


Startup Quote: Micah Baldwin, co-founder, Graphic.ly - <AUTHOR> http://startupquote.com/post/3068253744

<comment><AUTHOR> Startups are based in faith, and the ones that succeed have no fear.

\- Micah Baldwin (@micah)

<http://startupquote.com/post/3068253744></comment>


What Are Maxwell's Equations? - <AUTHOR> http://www.maxwells-equations.com/summary.php <comment><USER2> Being an introduction to the topic, they could have written what the letter stand for (D, B, E, J, H).</comment>


Comcast accuses net neutrality advocates of not "living in the real world" - <AUTHOR> https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/07/comcast-accuses-net-neutrality-advocates-of-not-living-in-the-real-world/ <comment><USER2> I imagine "living in the real world" amounts to "not wanting to watch Comcast Searchlight"

[http://forums.xfinity.com/t5/Channels-and- Programming/HELP-w...](http://forums.xfinity.com/t5/Channels-and- Programming/HELP-with-Searchlight/td-p/662143)

</comment><comment><USER3> Dear Comcast: here in "the real world", if you decide to cut capital investment so you can make more profits, that's on YOU. If those cuts result in your service being increasingly terrible, that's on YOU.

Maybe you'd be more familiar with these competitive tradeoffs if you actually, y'know, had some competition...</comment>


Do you debug your website? A small unimportant bug can have huge consequences. - <AUTHOR> http://kalzumeus.com/2008/11/17/do-you-debug-your-website/ <comment><USER2> I wish my blog would get picked up when it is NOT making me look like an idiot. _sigh_

Edited to add: So I was trying for a less pithy comment when the phone rang from overseas. Sorry about that.

Anyhow. Yep, this story really did happen to me. The good news: a one line tweak to a little file I didn't touch in something like six months probably added about 50% to my sales. The bad news: in those six months, this probably had actual economic costs of several thousand dollars. Or, to put this in relative terms, the worldwide economy just freaking collapsed and I _still_ managed to do more damage to my net worth with a freaking typo than the total massacre in my IRA.

<comment><AUTHOR> I don't think this makes you look like an idiot. I submitted this article from your blog because it is insightful and shows how apparently small, unimportant "display errors" can have very real consequences in terms of traffic and revenue.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> This reminds me how much I wish it would be possible to attach notes on Google Analytics graphs so I can look at them later and know what I did.

<comment><USER2> I know the feeling. That's actually a major reason why I keep the blog up -- it is probably my best single record of what the heck I was thinking when I implemented something. I find explaining things to other people leaves better hints than my cryptic "Of course I'll know what I meant in a year! After all, I _wrote_ this comment!" documentation.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Embarrassing story from someone I know: if you write your own billing application, make sure you round numbers correctly, or you could cost yourself hundreds of dollars a month in under-billing clients.

<comment><AUTHOR> I'd say that's a nice problem to have.. if you're under-rounding by one cent enough times to cost yourself hundreds of dollars, that would mean you're making at least tens of thousands of dollars of sales...

<comment><USER4> In the particular manifestation of this bug, he was under-charging by much more than one cent. It was thousands of dollars a month, not tens of thousands.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> "Never send a commited Windows programmer to do a Unix sysadmin's job."

Classic! (says the Windows programmer learning Unix commands and tools)

</comment><comment><USER6> Apart from being alert, cautious and the stress on testing, the takeaway for me is

         "this bug made a live, growing website look largely dead to the world, and Google accordingly sent most of their searchers to get their bingo cards elsewhere."

Most web businesses need to understand how google search works than their own businesses.

<comment><USER7> This is the second time in a row that I've been unable to read a page on my laptop because _you_ insist on posting quotes like that.

Cut that shit out, please.

<comment><USER6> I don't see why I who commented on a valuable takeaway from the post should be downmodded for this and your comment is upmodded. Yours is the one irrelevant to the post.

PG, please add a official Don'ts in formatting. It is nothing but natural to quote elsewhere on the web.

<comment><USER7> Trying to be more specifically helpful, since I don't think I conveyed exactly what the objection was the first time (or at least not so well that you understood):

It's not that you quoted. It's that the quote is wrapped in <code> and <pre> tags, and that breaks the layout for lots of people. I'm asking you not to do _that_ , because its effect is obnoxious.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Lesson 0: Don't do premature optimization.

<comment><USER9> Lesson N: Use a system that doesn't require you to manually remove cache files. Seriously.

<comment><USER2> So being that this is Rails there are a couple of ways I could have done this (assuming, again, that I cached):

1) Cache the page in memcached, which would give me access to an easy time- based expiry syntax.

2) Page cache. Instead of cleaning the cache with a one-line cron script, write a 10 line cache sweeper. Then, install a plugin to periodically execute the sweeper... or execute it with a cron script.

3) Page cache. Delete with a cronjob.

Why I didn't do #1: Memcached is overkill for my needs, and keeping another process running on the VPS just gobbles its 256MB of RAM even faster, while giving me another potential security/uptime headache.

Why I didn't do #2: Doesn't eliminate the dependency on cron, it just moves the actual delete operation from a single line in the crontab to more complicated Sweeper logic in the app. That is logic I'd then have to actually maintain and whatnot. (And doing #2 wouldn't have helped me if I had executed the Sweeper job as the same user I executed _rm -rf_ as, because it would similarly have been unable to remove the file.)

I might be careless but I don't make choices totally at random. ;)

<comment><USER4> "keeping another process running on the VPS just gobbles its 256MB of RAM even faster"

Why not upgrade? On Slicehost, going from 256 to 512 MB is only $20 extra. If you're running a business on it, I think that's a pretty reasonable expense, especially if it can save you even a little time (within reason).

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> It looks like all the 'my fail story'-blogpostings are quite elaborate for what they're trying to say. With this story the same, it reads like a breeze but all he says is: "Hey, I didn't delete the cache everyday because of a fault I made in the crontab. That costed me pagerank and visitors." Doesn't mean that I don't like reading those stories =)

</comment><comment><USER11> Little tweaks that speed page loading can also result in surprising increases in traffic -- both visitors who stay longer and improved search-referrals. I think fast-loading pages get a ranking boost from Google, too. (They're very explicit that this is the case for AdWords landing pages.)

</comment><comment><USER12> .. reading this after spending 2 days in emerg system fixing.

Only way this worked at all:

1\. Unit tests

2\. (Heavy) Load testing

3\. Version control, and knowing how to use it effectively.

What I wanted:

1\. Observability of what's going on in the system

If you have to attach a debugger or profiler, just to get a stack trace or know the pressure on the GC, you're not in a good place.

</comment><comment><USER13> Although the bug fix was only one line, it apparently necessitated a blog post that was hundreds of lines long. Perhaps the author should ask Gavin Newsom to produce a 7-hour series of videos about the bug fix?

<comment><USER14> It's not the bug. It's the money.

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> Only a real problem because of this: "one of the deployment steps had the side effect of nuking the cache directory."

If that didn't happen he would have found the bug much earlier.

<comment><USER16> I doubt he released a new version everyday... It seems like this bug wasn't really hard to catch on...

<comment><USER14> But he would have seen it earlier.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> A site that is designed to serve a fresh card everyday, keeps serving the same card.

How is that unimportant? small and trivial technically, yes; but unimportant?

<comment><USER2> Long story short: I thought "a new card every day!" was an important hook when designing the site. User behavior indicates otherwise -- most don't want novelty, they either want a) the same card everyone else wants (because it is seasonal) or b) a particular card which they Googled for. Only about 8% of my users even see the "featured card of the day" page.

So yeah, on the face of it, this particular feature breaking is unimportant to most of my users. However, Googlebot is MUCH more impressed with novelty than 92% of my users. Given Googlebot's outsized impact on my business, it is sort of an important stakeholder :)</comment></comment>


Geneva Police Confiscate Euro Bills Clogging Up Toilets - <AUTHOR> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-09-18/geneva-police-confiscate-euro-bills-clogging-up-toilets <comment><USER2> The worst cost/benefit in terror attacks in history.</comment>


Revisiting how we build Firefox - <AUTHOR> https://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/firefox-dev/2015-July/003063.html <comment><USER3> Some context that might help people understand this email...

There are two high-level components which make up Firefox. The first is Gecko, the rendering engine. The second is Firefox, the application itself, which uses Gecko to render Web pages and itself.

Firefox, built on top of Gecko, is written primarily in XUL and XBL (and JS).

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XUL](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XUL) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XBL](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XBL)

What's going on here is that Mozilla is considering getting rid of XUL and XBL and building Firefox with the same technologies that people use to build Web content.

There are at least three big advantages to doing this:

1\. Eliminate the need to support XUL and XBL in Gecko.

2\. Contributing to Firefox gets easier because there is no need to learn what are essentially Mozilla-specific languages.

3\. Mozilla learns more about what it takes to build complex applications like Firefox itself using Web technologies.

The only real downside is the amount of work involved.

<comment><USER4> The only thing I'm worried about is how would it affect performance. Does it mean the UI itself would be rendered using Gecko Engine?

<comment><USER5> Like pcwalton said, we already use Gecko to render the UI. But we're using a less well-optimized, less well-maintained corner of Gecko.

Improving performance is an explicit goal of this work.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> I hate the trend of building native UIs in HTML, because the result never feels right. For example, Firefox does not use OS X native context menus, and it shows in how they look, position themselves, animate, respond to keyboard and mouse events, etc.

But Firefox devs have clearly spent a great deal of effort to make these faux- context menus look native. What an enormous waste of development energy to emulate what the platform already provides!

Rather than pushing forward with a layer that provides even less access to platform UI elements, I wish they would recommit themselves to keeping the native elements native.

<comment><USER7> A lot of people agreed with you and built Camino and K-Meleon.

<comment><USER8> I can't agree more. Where does this plan leave desktop app dev. with Mozilla technologies? There are tonnes of projects (desktop apps) using XUL, XPCOM, e.t.c. SUre, the future is the Web (like Web OS, Unity, i.e. UI in HTML). Why can't they improve on XUL/XBL by releasing a new version with the desired features while they try to simplify building extensions/apps with XPCOMs? They should standardize apps dev. for FFOS (gonk{+necko}/gecko/gaia) & FF(gecko+necko/xul). This effort does not necessarily mean spending much time on enhancing the UI for FF but rather ensuring seamless app. portability between FF and FFOS.

<comment><USER7> Here is a difference of opinion:

If you want to share the same code base you need to grantee the same functionality. The easiest and most predictable way is to run this through an intermediate and then render that intermediate. This is why compilers use intermediate representations like bytecode, you don't want to write a compiler that builds only x86 and then another when you need to build ARM. You don't want to write a rendering engine with different implementations for each widget kit.

<comment><USER9> Well, the XPCOMs represent the bytecode in your opinion. One still can't get an XPCOM for FF to work on FFoS, I meant the simplest one without making huge changes to the code base. Yes, one UI engine is needed and so is a (cross-)compiler in your case OR alteration of the code base for FFoS of FF to ensure portability. I guess it would be the FFoS code base that might need to change. BUt that could be tricky since it leverages the Andriod's core - <USER2> component-based linux OS.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> The correct thing to use is AppKit on OS X, WPF on Windows, GTK+ on Gnome, and Qt on KDE. Yes, this requires more code, but it results in a much, much better experience. As an OS X user, it's _so_ obvious when an app isn't properly using AppKit.

<comment><USER11> I'm used to agree. That's how you get a native look and feel, but I don't think that's necessarily what people want. I find the use of tabs in the browser to be very telling - it means the way OSes have handled multiple instances of an application are not satisfactory, so people want the browser to handle that. Once it's in the browser people will want it to be the same on all platforms.

<comment><USER12> Someone should survey software end users to figure out if they care about native-looking UIs. I have a feeling most users don't care very much.

My most-used GUI apps are Chrome, Visual Studio, Ableton Live, and Photoshop. All of them have heavily customized user interfaces. Their custom controls and tiling/layout systems are tailored to the application domain. Except for Chrome, these are "do your life's work" applications. They should aim for maximum productivity, even if it makes the application harder to use. I think they would suffer if they tried to "look native".

Most everything else is done in web apps these days. Users don't seem to have a problem dealing with different button CSS in different web apps.

Certain things, like the "open file" dialog, really suffer if they look non- native. But I think users don't care about most other cases.

<comment><USER13> In a sense, Chrome has been moving further and further away from being native over time; in-content preferences, for example.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> Mozilla has been doing experiments in building browser UI in HTML for a long time. For instance, see Chromeless ( [https://blog.mozilla.org/labs/2010/10/chromeless-build- your-...](https://blog.mozilla.org/labs/2010/10/chromeless-build-your-own- browser-ui-using-html-css-js/) ).

Current HTML is capable enough. It's nice to see them talking about adopting that in mainline Firefox.

<comment><USER15> Accidental downvote. I thought it was [https://github.com/mozilla/browser.html](https://github.com/mozilla/browser.html) , I never heard of this chromeless effort.

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> It's probably time (past time, actually) for Mozilla to start looking into putting XUL/XBL to pasture for Firefox UI and using HTML/CSS/JS instead, since the Web platform has become sufficiently capable that the arguments for having a separate stack of technologies for building UI don't really hold anymore.

Still makes me a bit sad to see it go, though; I'm old enough to remember when XUL seemed like an exciting potential platform for general-purpose app development. Which never really panned out, alas, but was fascinating at the time.

<comment><USER17> IMO, it did pan out. XUL and XBL provided the inspiration for much of what's come to real Web standards over the last decade or so. Thanks to XUL, we had a web-like model for front end dev that over time was usurped by a real Web model for front end dev. If we can re-implement Firefox using real Web standards, XUL will have been be a big part of the reason that became possible.

<comment><USER16> That's great for FF and Mozilla, but it doesn't feel like a win for those of us who were interested in XUL/XBL as a platform for building our own apps, independent of those Mozilla ships. I put a little bit of time into trying to build stuff on top of XUL before giving up on it, and that time ended up being more or less wasted -- it's not like there was an easy glidepath to take stuff built in XUL and move it to Web standards, because back then Web standards weren't up to the task. Combine that with the platform itself being a bit of a moving target as MozSuite/FF evolved and the end result was work I basically had to throw out.

I'm not mad at Mozilla for all that, lots of platforms are complicated to build on, especially ones that are new and still evolving (which XUL definitely was, at the time). It's just not an experience that I feel like I can put into the "win" category. It was a dead end, at least for my needs.

<comment><USER17> Yeah. I hear ya. As a platform for app development outside of Mozilla projects and products, it has definitely been a bumpy and often roadblocked path.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> This email represents an intention to start investigating moving away from XUL/XBL. There are a number of areas to explore here like how to properly handle L10N, add-on overlays, and where to go native vs markup. At the same time we're actively moving over to e10s (electrolysis / per process tabs). There will be followup communication about who is doing the work and what work is being done but now is the time to add your concerns and comments or offer support.

</comment><comment><USER18> Can XUL/XBL just be ``compiled-down" to proper HTML, or is there also a security issue in that Gecko allows XUL/XBL to break rules needed to securely render HTML?

<comment><USER19> That's a good question. I don't know the answer, but I'm curious as well. If it is an option, might be a good interim solution, perhaps not for the main UI (where performance is one of the main goals) but it could be useful to help the plugin ecosystem transition over.

</comment></comment><comment><USER20> _> Is there space for a native-code main-window on desktop like we have on Android?_

Sailfish browser did it as well (using native UI). Desktop Firefox also can benefit from IPCembedlite. But the question will be, what should be used to write the UI. Qt as well?

I'm a bit torn on that, since switching away from "Webby" interface basically killed Fennec for Meego, and only Android started getting UI improvements (that's what triggered a separate browser for Sailfish to begin with).

<comment><USER21> Meego dying killed Fennec. It would have gotten further development if it had had users that warranted so.

<comment><USER20> Meego became Mer on which Sailfish is based, and it has enough users, so your argument is invalid.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> Please please please :D

Use this chance and port Firefox to Qt:

There are a lot pro`s, who speak for that, front in the row the huge community, the portability, the performance, and the fact that many devs rewrite there existing GUI to Qt, like Musesore, Frescobaldi, Wireshark, Subsurface, VLC, Gcompris, Mkvtoolnix, Dropbox, Megaglest`s Map editor, OpenShot, ufw-frontends, Dolphin-Emu and even two DEs: LXDE and Unity.

Please do that and i am Firefox user for my lifetime. :)

</comment><comment><USER23> That reminds me of what Vivaldi is trying to do ([https://vivaldi.com/](https://vivaldi.com/))

</comment><comment><USER24> Good thing is servo team is supporting API compatibilty with chromium CEF project. That mean, if you write an html5 app using CEF, it will just work so with servo engine as well.

</comment><comment><USER25> It would be cool if they took something like NWjs or Electron and made it better. So we could build other apps besides a browser with a cross platform framework.

</comment><comment><USER26> Keep XUL, XBL. Mark it deprecated. Make plugin development as easy as in Chrome for the new API. Would be awesome and so appreciated!

</comment><comment><USER27> Does this imply that It wouldn't possible anymore to use Firefox to browse without Javascript?

<comment><USER21> Firefox already uses a ton of JavaScript internally. The setting for web content has nothing to do with the internals of the browser.

</comment></comment><comment><USER28> The faster deployment thing seems pretty vague and free of actual content.

<comment><USER29> A few more bits of info from Laura Thompson's presentation, that was mentioned: shipping features can be done even faster if they are done in a modular way, as addons. Firefox supports restartless addons, which means the browser could download an addon and enable it immediately.

Together with work on improving addon APIs (APIs for CSS features were discussed, for example) this could be very interesting.

<comment><USER30> If this means that I could easily uninstall all the bits of firefox I don't use, like bookmarks, that would be pretty cool.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER31> Please keep these little icons unchanged, i don't care about it.

Do not make tabs cuter, I don't care about it.

But PLEASE - do something to stop Firefox from being such a bloated memory hog - I deeply care about it.

<comment><USER32> Firefox itself is quite fast [1]; if you're having issues, there's a good chance that it's due to an add-on [2]. A (historically; I'm unsure if this is still the case) particularly egregious offender [3] is AdBlock Plus, but µBlock [4] does come highly recommended.

[1] [http://arewefastyet.com](http://arewefastyet.com)

[2] [https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/firefox-uses-too- much-m...](https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/firefox-uses-too-much-memory- ram#w_disabling-memory-consuming-extensions-and-themes)

[3] [https://blog.mozilla.org/nnethercote/2014/05/14/adblock- plus...](https://blog.mozilla.org/nnethercote/2014/05/14/adblock-pluss-effect- on-firefoxs-memory-usage/)

[4] [https://addons.mozilla.org/en- us/firefox/addon/ublock/](https://addons.mozilla.org/en- us/firefox/addon/ublock/)

<comment><USER31> I didn't say it slow. It is indeed fast. Thank you for that!

Until suddenly the show stops and I have to kill it via Taskmgr to inject new life into it due to memory suffocation.

<comment><USER32> Hmm...that doesn't sound like normal behavior; my uneducated guess would be that there's a specific webpage or extension with a leak. Next time it happens, it'd be fantastic if you could go to about:memory, save the reports, and file a bug with them attached:

[https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=Firefox](https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=Firefox)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER33> I'd rather they'd spend more time making their rendering engine e.g. implement the SVG spec properly[0] than fanny about with this, but, y'know, I'm not in change.

[0] [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=437554](https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=437554)

<comment><USER34> Feel free to contribute, FF is an open source project driven by people like you who get annoyed at bugs like this.

<comment><USER33> Many a time I've said this to people but truth is the number of projects I already contribute to is greater than the time I really have to devote to them.</comment></comment></comment>


Template for a typical Python 3 library package - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/jacebrowning/template-python

<comment><USER2> Nice, but why not a cookiecutter template?[https://github.com/audreyr/cookiecutter](https://github.com/audreyr/cookiecutter)

It looks tedious to clone some other project and manually replace strings.

<comment><USER3> contributor here. Cookiecutter conversion is in progress: [https://github.com/jacebrowning/template- python/pull/34](https://github.com/jacebrowning/template-python/pull/34)

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Have you considered using PyScaffold [http://pyscaffold.readthedocs.org/](http://pyscaffold.readthedocs.org/) ? It is tuned for ease of use and comes with a lot of features.</comment>


Easy web scraping – 100% browser based - <AUTHOR> http://cloudscrape.com/

<comment><AUTHOR> We've just launched our SaaS web scraping product called CloudScrape, which will let you scrape any page - no matter the complexity, using our in-browser editor and webkit-powered runtime. Try it out for free! Feedback / comments are very welcome and appreciated.</comment>


Making Web-Workers Async Iterables - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/jfet97/aww <comment><USER2> I just started using web workers using the workerpool library last week. There's something wildly satisfying about true parallelism in the browser.

I had an embarrassingly parallel problem with validating user drawn geometries against hundreds of thousands of others in real time and web workers is a godsend.

<comment><USER3> I'm assuming _workerpool_ doesn't support closures? Judging from its GitHub page, it doesn't look like it.

From my own experience:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20192486](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20192486)

<comment><USER4> Well, you could put Function.toString() in a Blob, like this, but it feels kinda eval-y to me.

[http://jsfiddle.net/tndm5hev/](http://jsfiddle.net/tndm5hev/)

Edit: looks like someone wrote an NPM package already:

[https://www.npmjs.com/package/spawn- worker](https://www.npmjs.com/package/spawn-worker)

<comment><USER5> This is how Task.js functions

[https://github.com/icodeforlove/task.js](https://github.com/icodeforlove/task.js)

Which works on Node.js, and the browser. (Supports fork, worker_threads, and WebWorkers)

The advantage of this is that the workers become generic enough to run anything. Instead of having to have many "specialized" workers.

Performance-wise eval is not slow, and it is encapsulated inside of the actual worker. Obviously you don't want a user to be able to control any input. But for most cases we are talking about code related to processing, which involves hard coded functions, and the "external-data" being ArrayBuffers.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Plasma Mobile update: Refreshed shell interface, fixes in apps and working calls - <AUTHOR> https://www.plasma-mobile.org/2019/10/11/Plasma-Mobile-Weekly-update-2.html <comment><USER2> Cool stuff, following the normal color scheme makes a lot of sense.</comment>


Sartre on the Nobel Prize (1964) - <AUTHOR> http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/1964/dec/17/sartre-on-the-nobel-prize/ <comment><USER2> This essay has had quite a few lives: in Sweden, in France, in the USA; during the Cold War, after it; now oddly enough, I meet it on HN. It's so well written, in fact, that a more playful Swedish Academy might have awarded the prize to Sartre in a subsequent year, citing this essay itself...

<comment><USER3> I was just looking for a citation to Clay Shirky's thought about organizations' first priority being the survival of the organization, and on the "Here Comes Everybody" wiki page, some... guy was referenced as "Nobel- prize winning whatever whatsisname": would his ideas about groups have been cited if he hadn't won that prize? And would I've been looking up something Shirky said if he we're'nt Professor of New York at New Media University?

Joy is in being, not having; where one was over some honor flung: to've been at Woodstock in sixty-nine, Manhattan in oh-one, the net/web in $year, off the reef at Barbados, the shoulder of Orion... Awards and titles seem the recluse of rats. Those who got instead of go'd.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Groucho Marx said:

       I don't want to belong to any club that will accept people like me as a member

Sartre sharply found out, that to be an independent thinker "about" society, he must not be entangled to much "into" society.

<comment><USER5> Sartre also said : Hell is other people.

<comment><USER6> Which is probably one of the most misunderstood citations in philosophy. It's the presence of other people that makes one acutely aware of oneself (since you are an object in the conscience of others).

From L'Être et le Néant:

 _But the Other is the indispensable mediator between myself and me. I am ashamed of myself as I appear to the Other._

<comment><USER7> In this dance is you-Daniel, me-Che, and Other, of which I will never know.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Richard Feynman on the Nobel prize when the interviewer asks him if his research was worth the Nobel prize that he won: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZF4vBreqmE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZF4vBreqmE)

<comment><USER9> Feynman is splendid, like always. For my understanding, his reasoning is much clearer and less artificially complex than Sartres.

Thanks for posting this.

<comment><USER10> Sarte's reasoning is pretty simple: he doesn't want to become a component of an institution. He wants to be able to write as Jean-Paul Sartre, not Jean- Paul Sartre the Nobel Prize winner.

<comment><USER11> That thinking is flawed though. A prize doesn't define you by accepting it. When I am given a birthday cake, I don't then become "heuving, the receiver of birthday cakes".

The only reason that really makes sense to decline a prize is if you are heavily opposed to what the institution represents. However, he didn't strike me as anti-intellectual.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> I loved this quote:

"This permits me to collaborate with all those who seek to bring the two cultures closer together. I nonetheless hope, of course, that "the best man wins." That is, socialism."

</comment><comment><USER13> I wonder how he felt about his fame, you can't shake that off. Maybe I misunderstand his argument, but it seems like he could have used that argument to just always write anonymously.

<comment><USER14> Sartre only represents himself. Not any institution like the Nobel. That's his argument. So writing in his name is ok.

</comment></comment><comment> d--b what the article doesn't say though, being written by Sartre, is that Sartre was pretty pissed off that Camus did get the prize before he did.

</comment><comment><USER15> There is a saying, "Everyone has a price" \- Notch's was $2 Billion. I wonder what Sartre's was. Clearly more than 250,000 crowns.

<comment><USER16> There's really no analogy there at all.

<comment><USER17> They are both renouncing something in a spectacular way to maintain a personal ideal.

<comment><USER18> Notch did not say "no" to the Money at all. He said "I don't want the responsibilities, but I'll take the money, thank you". Which is well in his right, don't make me say what I did not.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> Pompous.

<comment><USER20> Precisely. Just accept the damn honor. I am not impressed. True humility does not rob others the joy of giving, but accepts the gift being offered.

<comment><USER21> Why should he have done that? He explains in details his reasons, and for somebody in his position. They sound perfectly valid, and he goes out of his way to say that his refusal is in no way a indictment of the Nobel committee. Other people have refused prestigious awards in the past, without being taxed of arrogance.</comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN:How to get an internship with a VC Backed Startup - <AUTHOR>

I am a sophomore in College studying computer science right now and I am looking for a summer internship. I've always been interested in entrepreneurship but most startups do not have formal internship programs. What is the best way to get involved with web development startups? Should I just cold call them? <comment><USER2> Throw your credentials together and hit up some companies that you admire.

VC backed companies are almost always fond of free labor, provided that it is good labor.

At a past company, I had some guy come to our office looking for an intern position. He was just going to various companies in the office complex where we were based and seeing what they had available. I liked his drive and the fact that he seemed to present himself well, so I gave him a job for 2 summers. It was a good deal for both of us, he learned a ton, and was cheap labor :)

</comment><comment><USER3> Shoot me an e-mail (shafqat at newscred dot com)... We might have an open position, but can also point you to some others.

</comment><comment><USER4> We have had a couple of CS interns work with us (1 on remote basis), and it's been great for both sides.. send me an email if you're interested simon a/t frenzoo d/o/t com.</comment>


Ask HN: What would you add (remove) to a language you're working with daily? - <AUTHOR> <comment><USER2> C# - Add Discriminated Unions and a Maybe / Optional type and F# style records. C# - I'd remove null propogation, I'm sick of seeing code like this now

foo?.Bar?.FirstOrDefault(x => x?.Quax?.Something == y?.Something).DoStuff();

We have someone here now who just makes all null reference exceptions go away by appending a ? to every call!!!

Drives me nuts.

</comment><comment><USER3> First class functions in plsql</comment>


IOS 7 adoption over 87%, Android KitKat 5% - <AUTHOR> http://techcrunch.com/2014/04/07/apple-puts-ios-7-adoption-at-87-as-ios-6-and-older-fade-to-black/

<comment><USER2> Just wait for High-end device like Samsung Galaxy S5, HTC One M8 and Sony Xperia Z2. Apple forces iOS user to upgrade to latest OS because most of the apps in the Apple store will not work if your iPhone or iPad is not updated with the latest version of Android.

</comment><comment><USER3> This seems to be by design. iOS practically forces every update on you whereas you have to really go out of your way to update Android.</comment>


Solar and pedal hybrid vehicle at $9,000 - <AUTHOR> https://organictransit.com/ <comment><AUTHOR> Posted for inspiration, I find it too expensive. Alternatives?</comment>


FakeSkype: an open source Skype client - <AUTHOR> http://www.oklabs.net/fakeskype-source-code/

<comment><AUTHOR> Following this discussion[1] I thought this work deserved more views.

[1] [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6597297](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6597297)</comment>


Executed Ohio killer Dennis McGuire took 15 minutes to die with untried drugs - <AUTHOR> http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/executed-ohio-killer-15-minutes-die-never-before-tried-drugs-article-1.1581821

<comment><USER2> Why do the Americans insist on using this form of ritual torture killing even when the correct drugs to make it work are unavailable? Guns are incredibly popular in America, so why don't they just put a bullet in the criminal's head? Much more humane, and a good opportunity to exercise their 2nd amendment rights at the same time.

There are other options. Decapitation and hanging are old fashioned methods that we used use in Europe before we become civilised. They are painful, but not as painful as this, and they are cheap and don't require any special drugs. Yet the alternative American method seems to be the electric chair! Again it's expensive, complicated, painful.

Americans seem to be the sort of people who if you gave them a free copy of Mac OS X that would run on any hardware they would decide to buy Windows 8 instead.

<comment><USER3> Hanging is less reliable than one might imagine; at the time, the electric chair was touted as a humane method of execution. Really it comes down to whether you buy into the idea of the death penalty or not. by the standards of American law, the DP itself can't be considered _inherently_ cruel and unusual (because the Constitution contemplates the possibility of the death penalty being lawfully applied in the language of the 5th amendment). So all Constitutional arguments about the DP where culpability is not in question rest upon the justice or injustice of _who_ it can be applied to (eg not minors, because they are below the age of criminal responsibility) or _how_ it is applied - probably the easiest line to argue, because for any given method of execution it;s relatively easy to find examples of it going gruesomely wrong and you can then argue that it would be wrong to employ a method of execution where you knew in advance of such a possibility.

Obviously I am _drastically_ over-simplifying the legal issues here.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> ".. while they were in Richardson's garage, Joy came in and said she wanted some marijuana. Richardson further testified that McGuire offered to get her some, and the two left in McGuire's car. The following day, February 12, two hikers found the body of Joy Stewart in some woods near Bantas Creek. The front of her shirt was saturated with blood. One deputy sheriff at the scene, Larry Swihart, also noted that there appeared to be a "blood wipe mark" on her right arm. The body was taken to the Montgomery County Coroner's Office, where an autopsy was performed. The autopsy revealed that Joy had been stabbed twice. One wound, located above the left collarbone, caused no significant injury. The critical wound was a four-and-a-half-inch-deep cut in the throat, which completely severed the carotid artery and jugular vein. The doctor determined that Joy was alive when she received the wound, and that such a wound could have been caused by a single-edged blade shorter than four and a half inches, due to "how soft and moveable the tissues are in the neck." The autopsy also revealed abrasions around the neck, impressed with the cloth pattern of Joy's shirt. The coroner's office also took vaginal, oral, and anal swabs. The coroner found an abundant amount of sperm on the anal swab, some sperm on the vaginal swab, and none on the oral swab. The coroner indicated that sperm could be detected in the vagina for days or sometimes weeks after ejaculation; however, sperm in the rectum could be detected for a lesser time "because the environment is fairly hostile for sperm, and * * * a bowel movement * * * usually will purge the rectum of any sperm."

</comment><comment><USER5> Not sure if this submission is on-topic for Hacker News, but holy shit I bet that was traumatising for his family.</comment>


A Star Has Seemingly Vanished from Space with No Explanation - <AUTHOR> https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/dyzyez/a-massive-star-has-seemingly-vanished-from-space-with-no-explanation <comment><USER2> Sounds exactly like the opening of the book pandoras star by Peter Hamilton... Lets hope the rest of the book doesnt play out too!

</comment><comment><USER3> More likely to be hidden by a dust cloud than any other reason.</comment>


Nest Thermostat Glitch Leaves Users in the Cold - <AUTHOR> http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/14/fashion/nest-thermostat-glitch-battery-dies-software-freeze.html <comment><USER3> We have two nest thermostats installed at work. I rotate the WiFi keys for our APs quarterly and these things are the biggest pain in the ass to reconnect to the WiFi.

The furnace turns off almost immediately after changing the WiFi key once the Nest loses connectivity. At first I thought it was coincidence but now that I rotate on a strict schedule it's a joke in our office. However, what's not a joke is what happens when the internet goes down. So does our heat.

What the hell, Nest?

Relevant: [https://twitter.com/internetofshit](https://twitter.com/internetofshit)

<comment><USER4> > However, what's not a joke is what happens when the internet goes down. So > does our heat.

As a couple of other folks have noted, that's not normal. You might want to get on tech support with them.

My Nest just keeps running its last program when it looses internet.

<comment><USER5> Hilarious. A residential thermostat that needs tech support. Only in the Silicon Valley echo chamber can that seem like a good idea. It reminds me of the old engineering saying: "If it's not broken it doesn't have enough features yet."

<comment><USER6> [https://yourhome.honeywell.com/en/contact- us](https://yourhome.honeywell.com/en/contact-us)

<comment><USER7> I'm at a complete loss of words at why you think that's even in the same class of support...

<comment><USER8> Why? He said tech support, the link given has a number for tech support. Seems pretty similar. Honeywell also has a wifi smart thermostat that is controlled by an iPhone app and competes with the Nest.

Seems pretty damn similar.

<comment><USER9> Everything electronic needs tech support. You could have a 100% reliable product that's nothing more than a single button that literally does one thing when you press it, and you'd _still_ need tech support because people will call in and ask you how to use it, or why it doesn't do anything when they don't push the button.

Criticizing Nest for having tech support is just silly. Much better to criticize it for the actual stupid failure being experienced by the original commenter.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> "It also happened recently with Fitbit, the maker of wearable activity trackers. The company was hit with a class-action lawsuit in San Francisco asserting that the wristbands failed to "consistently and accurately record wearers' heart rates," which is vital for those with certain medical conditions."

Apropos of anything else - I don't think Fitbit has ever tried to market itself as a medical device.

<comment><USER11> It turns out even if a company markets its products with big bold "not for diagnostic/medical use", and its customers use the products for diagnostic or medical use, the company can still be on the hook. It depends on a number of things, not least of which is the company's knowledge of the actual use of their devices.

<comment><USER12> That doesn't seem fair. What's a company supposed to do in that situation? Just close up shop?

Makes me wonder if it would be possible to intentionally drive a company out of business by convincing a bunch of people to use their products incorrectly.

<comment><USER13> I don't know about Fitbit _per se_ , but there are cases where a company says one thing in it's legal interface, but does another with it's sales interface. IOW (pure speculation on my part), Fitbit could say "don't use this for such and such" and the sales people say "yeah, we say that (wink, wink), but we don't really mean it." To be clear, _I am not saying Fitbit does that_ , but I am familiar with other companies that have done such and gotten in trouble for it.

<comment><USER14> Oh they totally do it, but even more sneakily. After the whole Internet hypes itself up, the salesmen don't have to say a word. Random blogs, newspaper articles and word-of-mouth have already done it for them.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> If you watch the unhappy early adopter YouTube videos of Nest thermostats, this outcome is pretty predictable. There's a level of quality control you need to put up a web app, which won't physically affect anyone if it happens to crash for awhile. Then there's a much higher level required when you're controlling things in the real world.

This outcome was predictable from the experience of those early adopters.

EDIT: Why couldn't Nest fall back to being a dumb thermostat? Lots of smart device makers should consider having such a fallback.

<comment><USER16> The Nest comes in two parts - the "smart" bit with the USB charger & battery & wifi, and the Heat Link - the actual radio control for your boiler.

The Heat Link has a big button on which lets you turn the heating on and off, overriding what the Nest is telling it. That's not as economical as a regular thermostat, but it means you won't freeze: [https://nest.com/uk/support/article/How-do-I-turn-the- heat-o...](https://nest.com/uk/support/article/How-do-I-turn-the-heat-on-if- the-Nest-Thermostat-isn-t-working)

<comment><USER16> Oh, OK, you don't have that in the US apparently. Why's it necessary?

<comment><USER17> Almost all US central heat and air systems are "forced air" \-- gas or electric heaters (furnaces) that blow conditioned air through ducting. Boiler- radiator systems wouldn't work with the standard US thermostat, not least because US thermostats use low-voltage signaling.

<comment><USER18> You must be from a warm part of the U.S.

Forced hot water systems are very common in the colder parts, and they use the same thermostat wiring as forced air. Some parts of the U.S. even use diesel fuel for heat (it's called #2 heating oil, but it's really just diesel fuel with pink dye added so they can fine you for using it as a vehicle fuel...it's taxed advantageously).

Also, boiler-radiator systems can absolutely work with standard thermostats. The classic design has no electrical control at all, just bimetal valves (like car thermostats) to regulate the flow of heated water. But the modern revision uses the same kind of electrically controlled valves (24VAC, IIRC) that forced hot water does.

All low-voltage thermostats with standardized wiring layouts.

I didn't know the UK ran high voltage to ordinary thermostats though, that seems crazy if it's just a control circuit. Presumably the full mains voltage?

Old U.S. "radiant" (electrical, non-hydronic) heat ran 220/240 VAC to big rheostats in each room, but that was actually the supply to the heating elements. It feels like something that wouldn't meet code today, but it used to be popular in some parts of the country where electricity was inexpensive.

<comment><USER19> Yeah, UK central heating systems in homes use the full 240V for all their control wiring. It's worth bearing in mind that this isn't just signalling - the thermostat and timer directly switch the power to the pump and valves.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> > Buried deep in Nest's 8,000-word service agreement is a section called > "Disputes and Arbitration," which prohibits customers from suing the company > or joining a class-action suit.

Though I have no need for a thermostat whatsoever, I kinda like nest. However, I'd love if people went to court with a class action suit against them.

These 'no class action' and 'arbitration' clauses are becoming increasingly common, but I think they probably don't hold up in court - and nor should they, given how much power they put in the hands of the company.

<comment><USER21> Judges dismissing cases based on arbitration clauses seems pretty common.

NYT has been on the case recently: [http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/01/business/dealbook/arbitrat...](http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/01/business/dealbook/arbitration- everywhere-stacking-the-deck-of-justice.html) [http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/02/business/dealbook/in- arbit...](http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/02/business/dealbook/in-arbitration- a-privatization-of-the-justice-system.html) [http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/03/business/dealbook/in- relig...](http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/03/business/dealbook/in-religious- arbitration-scripture-is-the-rule-of-law.html)

[http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/23/business/dealbook/sued- ove...](http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/23/business/dealbook/sued-over-old- debt-and-blocked-from-suing-back.html)

<comment><USER22> Despite arbitration clauses in the EULA, there are people who can sue. The buyer of the device may be barred from suing, but other parties who suffered damages can still use. Roommates, guests, family members, people who live downstairs below pipes broken due to a Nest failure - they can all sue. They didn't agree to the EULA. Regular negligence standards apply. If you can show that a lot of the things failed all at once, that's a pretty good case for negligence.

This can also come up in landlord/tenant situations. If the landlord put in a Nest, and its failure caused the tenant problems, like having to spend the night in a hotel, the tenant can probably sue Nest.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> I've had the Nest for 2 years. To be honest I've had zero problems. The only problem I have is that once Google bought them, there has been little to no improvements in anything. They only give 10 days worth of data which is functionally useless. Why should I care about last week for energy use? I want to compare against last year. They haven't made any significant improvements so it's just another case of an innovator getting bought and then getting the innovation sucked out of it.

The same thing happened with Dropcam. Once they were bought by Nest/Google they stopped making any real changes for the last 2 years. It's sad and infuriating as a customer.

<comment><USER24> Believe it or not, it wasn't really Google's fault. Agreed that it is sad and infuriating, though.

</comment></comment><comment><USER25> > Although I had set the thermostat to 70 degrees overnight, my wife and I > were woken by a crying baby at 4 a.m. The thermometer in his room read 64 > degrees, and the Nest was off.

This seems quite strange to me. Here in Germany it's extremely common to (automatically) turn of heating all together in the night (called Nachtabsenkung). One reason is to save energy, but lower temperatures also help sleep:

[http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/04/health/04real.html](http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/04/health/04real.html)

The article says between 60°F (15.5°C) to 68°F (20°) is best.

<comment><USER26> Sleeping with heating on seems a waste of energy to me. At least in Spain.

I have a dumb thermostat. It doesn't even have a clock. It just has two buttons, one two increase temperature, the other to decrease it. In winter, during the day, I put it at 20C. At night, I put it at 15C or lower (which stops heating, as the house temperature decreases to about 17 or 18 degrees during the night, without heating). It works like a charm. We are not cold at night as we use pyjamas and duvet. We also have a baby. In fact, if I forget to turn off the heating at night, I can't sleep well and I often get up to turn it off.

<comment><USER27> You should get a simple programmable thermostat that just lets you put temperature at given times. Will automate away what you forget to do.

<comment><USER26> Yest, it would be better. But this happens once or twice in a year. It's really not worth it.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER28> This offers an interesting insight into the Internet of Things. Take something simple, and tack on a bunch of new technology that is subject to failure. Don't be surprised if it fails.

To be fair, the issue isn't that there was software involved; digital thermostats have that. I think more telling was the level of complexity, which allows for a lot more to go wrong. Combined with a poor process behind update validation, this is what happens.

Keep it Simple. If you're going to use new technology, keep the old stuff around, ideally working in parallel as a failsafe.

And generally, anything you can do to distribute the failure points and allow for overlap (such as backup spaceheaters that don't normally kick on) should be considered if someone's life is on the line, or property is at risk. Stuff can always go wrong, but the more you can do to reduce risk the better. This applies to any system dependency; mechanical thermostat or nest.

<comment><USER29> In general, the way IoT is treated is wrong.

Startups try to treat IoT devices as a standard arm or x86 processor with some additional GPIO pins where they read info, deal with it, and write info.

No real-time guarantee, a level of QA similar to websites or consumer software, etc.

And here is what previous companies building smart devices (say, SIEMENS) treated them like: As extended microcontrollers.

Put all the critical software on one tiny microcontroller, do static verification that that microcontroller is always acting correct. If you need Internet access, add a second chip that does that, and provides the results of that data to the first microcontroller — but don't depend on it.

There is a large divide between the Engineers designing these devices in the past, and today's crowd.

<comment><USER30> To be fair, you can still buy traditional building/home automation products. If you go through the list of vendors on the KNX website you see that pretty much every hip IoT device has a standards-based equivalent from those traditional vendors. Learning thermostats, IP-based video doorbells, smart lights, etc...

The difference is one of market strategy. The IoT devices are deliberately low-threshold purchases (cheap, easy to install) because they want to build a customer relationship that leads to extra sales. Nest cam, ring subscription, etc... Traditional home automation products instead are targeted towards a one-time sale of a larger system, so they focus more on ability to design the system how you want, with more standards support and more ability to integrate with other products, but also a much higher purchase threshold and a much more involved installation process.

In the end, you have to choose what you want. Do you want a single gadget or do you want a whole smart home system?

<comment><USER14> > _In the end, you have to choose what you want. Do you want a single gadget > or do you want a whole smart home system?_

I want a whole smart home system built piece by piece through buying various smart devices of different vendors and having them talk to each other. This is how it's supposed to work for the "personal use" market, and this is what we need to push for.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER31> It was never great, and it's been worse and worse since Google bought them. Examples of some issues with mine:

1\. It doesn't honor DHCP lease expiration [1]. It will happily keep using its IP without renewing its lease. I've had situations where it's gone long enough without a lease renewal that another device has received its old IP and caused a conflict.

2\. It constantly disassociates from the AP, and decides to come back on the network when it feels like it, not when there is traffic for it. And note, this is with a constantly powered device, so there should be no power saving causing it to power down. Also, the AP is about 6 feet away and there are zero other WiFi issues. Manually kicking the device off the AP causes it to come back immediately.

3\. Their backend goes down all the time, usually for 1-2 hours.

4\. They had a perfectly working method for turning heating on in advance of your setpoint with the goal of reaching your desired temperature at that time rather than just turning on at that time. Then they broke it [2]. This led to nice surprises like waking up to a completely cold house. Instead of rolling back the broken code, they refused to respond on the aforementioned thread for well over a month.

It's really inexplicable. They have nice industrial design, good brand recognition, no shortage of money behind them, and they screw up at every conceivable turn.

I'm going to try out the ecobee thermostat because I very much appreciate the convenience of being able to remotely adjust the temperature.

[1]: [https://community.nest.com/thread/10316](https://community.nest.com/thread/10316) [2]: [https://community.nest.com/thread/11438](https://community.nest.com/thread/11438)

<comment><USER32> "It's really inexplicable. They have nice industrial design, good brand recognition, no shortage of money behind them, and they screw up at every conceivable turn."

Ipso Facto. They can't _not_ screw it up.

A critical component of infrastructure should not be IP addressable. It should not be "on your wifi". It should not have a login or a password. It should be as dumb as possible and as simple as possible - and as anti-fragile to all of these events as possible.

It's not possible to have this "feature set" and not have this pain. It's a fools errand to pursue it.

<comment><USER29> Yes, it is possible:

Have a microcontroller that stores the time table for when to set which temperature, and applies it.

Have a second processor, with internet access, that updates this table.

Simple as that.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER33> I have a manual thermostat, no batteries required. It has worked flawlessly for over 30 years. It has a simple intuitive interface: a switch for "heat" or "cool" and a dial with a pointer to set the desired temperature.

Why make things more complicated than they need to be?

<comment><USER34> Because when you forget to change the setting to heat and wake up to a 60 degree house you rush around hoping the pipes didn't freeze. Or when you set the AC to 70 because you were warm and leave to go to work and forget to set it back.

<comment><USER35> If your house is 60 degrees. It didn't freeze.

<comment><USER36> If it's 60 degrees then it isn't freezing now, but it could have been lower overnight.

<comment><USER37> Heat loss is proportional to the temperature difference across the boundary (walls and windows and roof). Even when it's quite cold outside, heat loss slows down as the house gets colder, and then you still have all the phase change energy to dump before pipes freeze. This will not happen overnight except in the most extreme cases, and it certainly will not then warm back up to 60.

Anecdotally, I was once without central heat for three days in 0-20F, and nothing froze. The basement got down to 38.

<comment><USER38> A lot of that depends on where your house is built. I have a house in an area that can go an entire winter without getting much below 40F. No one builds with "freeze-proof" faucet design, which recesses the valve to the outside water faucets within the wall.

I had two pipes freeze and burst after 3 days of freezing temperatures (first time anyone can remember being more than 24 hours below freezing). One was an outside faucet, properly protected and insulated. The other was frozen inside the slab, near the wall.

<comment><USER37> When you live somewhere with actual weather, outdoor faucets are closed and drained for the winter and most of spring. There's no such thing as "freeze- proof" faucets at -30.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER39> My house didn't play nicely with my Nest. I got a new Furnace and AC and had them install a Nest. It started acting weird. We replaced it with a low-tech Honeywell while trying to get it figured out. I then replaced the Nest thinking maybe it was faulty. I took a photo of the wire layout for the Honeywell and made sure I did the proper layout for the new Nest. It worked fine for a few days and then one day I came home to a 110 degree house! The Nest reported that things were 70-whatever. I then replaced it with a Wi-Fi Honeywell (not their Nest competitor) and that one has worked fine since. It was a very scary experience. I won't be trying a Nest again.

<comment><USER40> Identical experience here. Installed Honeywell RedLINK and finally my problems went away. Ditto Honeywell wireless security, also works great. There's SO MUCH crap out there, and the wave hasn't even started yet.

</comment></comment><comment><USER41> Wow this happened to my family. We didn't have heat for I think 5 hours. Now we are in the SF Bay so it didn't get crazy cold but I had a wife telling me to fix it and the stupid thing wouldn't come online. I chalked it up to one of the kids pulled the unit from the base plate and the battery drained.

It seems like a GIANT bug to me that the Nest won't come back online till the battery is almost fully charged.

I "fixed" it by putting our old thermostat back in then I put the nest back a few days later.

<comment><USER42> Ahhh but you still haven't learned, have you :-)? The repair ended after you replace the Nest.

</comment></comment><comment><USER43> Failure for a product to perform its primary function is totally unacceptable. Let me repeat: totally unacceptable. From the comments it seems they fail if they lose network connectivity? That's got to be the stupidest thing I ever heard. Apparently some "smart" TVs suffer from similar problems. Remember, there are plenty of thermostats that have NO software - just a stupid little mercury switch - and they are more reliable than this. When any product fails at it's primary function I next it.

But hey it's the Internet of THINGS! woot!

</comment><comment><USER44> I had a Nest and sold it to my brother after Google bought them and it was clear they were never going to release the rumored remote sensors. I got an ecobee instead.

The ecobee is much smarter, mostly because of the remote sensors. My house is far more comfortable. It's also nice that ecobee has an API and IFTTT support. It has no issues running normally when the internet goes down. (My internet was down completely the other night and there was -25F windchill. It followed schedule just fine.)

I'm guessing ecobee coming from Canada they know the value of a functional thermostat...

</comment><comment><USER45> Mine (Gen 2) died a month ago. I charged it up and reset it, and called Nest support. They sent me a replacement even though mine was working again, and included a prepaid return label.

First problem I had with mine, and it was a great support experience.

Anecdata and all. But combined with this story, makes me wonder if they replaced it because they knew it was likely to happen again.

</comment><comment><USER46> And to close the citation loop: [https://twitter.com/internetofshit](https://twitter.com/internetofshit) is fun for people who want to roll their eyes at misbehaving smart devices.

</comment><comment><USER47> In line with this is the classic "It Can't Be Hushed Here" Nest bug video, by Brad Fitzpatrick from last year:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpsMkLaEiOY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpsMkLaEiOY)

[Warning: contains extremely annoying Nest smoke detectors beeping. So prepare to lower your volume]

Brad looks very annoyed and it was no fun for him, but on an artistic level it is really well done, it is an epic battle between human and machine.

</comment><comment><USER48> This is why I purchased the Honeywell 9000 WiFi Color Touchscreen Thermostat[0] instead. The nice thing about the Honeywell is that you can use it completely offline if you so choose. It also has a REAL interface, so an app is an optional extra not a required component.

Both the Nest and Honeywell require the infamous C wire, both are similar installation, and both cost around $200.

[0] [http://www.amazon.com/Honeywell-RTH9580WF-Touchscreen- Thermo...](http://www.amazon.com/Honeywell-RTH9580WF-Touchscreen-Thermostat- Premier/dp/B00FLZEQH2)

PS - And, yes, the Nest has a theoretical setup without the C wire, but you'll lose key things like fan control, or if the boiler doesn't run enough the entire thing can die. On both it is ultimately C wire or don't waste your time.

<comment><USER49> 100% on the same page as you. I didn't get the Honeywell, I actually got a relatively cheap z-wave thermostat that acts like a regular ol' dumb programmable thermostat that can also be controlled by ANY z-wave compatible home automation hub (I use the Wink hub, to my sometimes chagrin).

Pretty sure my thermostat was sub $75 on Amazon.

</comment></comment><comment><USER50> At least among the engineers and data scientists here, are any of us really surprised? Smart devices, especially ones that learn, can certainly do better on average, but complexity adds edge cases and those worst cases can really matter. Simple things fail simply (when they fail at all).

</comment><comment><USER51> "At the point of desire, you want more, but at the point of daily use, you want less." -John Maeda, on complexity in product design

</comment><comment><USER52> Two years ago: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6885947](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6885947)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7019617](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7019617)

</comment><comment><USER53> I've also been told by people I know About Nests crashing and turning off. [edit: yes, anecdotal but it's not an unknown event] This is completely unacceptable in a Northern climate. No, it's not the only failure mode for a heating system but I have zero interest in adding another point of failure for the sake of having a cool device. Frozen pipes is a serious business.

<comment><USER54> That was my first thought; if I owned a Nest and it stopped working for 2-3 days right now where I live, I'd be in big trouble especially if I weren't home to get a space-heater to temporarily offset the issue

</comment></comment><comment><USER55> Why have I only heard horror stories about the Nest? I see their reviews on Amazon and I see huge problems with this product .

<comment><USER56> Because happy users don't feel motivated to tell people everything is okay. It's a common bias which you have to constantly remind yourself to correct for.

<comment><USER57> That would make sense if there weren't plenty of other product reviews in which people are gushing about how awesome they are.

<comment><USER58> They're usually astroturfed. Some vendors will go as far as offering a small rebate to customers who leave a positive review of the product.

I would guess that probably 85% of "user-generated content" on mainstream outlets like Amazon is the result of astroturfing or other paid schemes. It's practically impossible to compete in any online marketplace without turfing the crap out of every slightly relevant outlet. Your competitors are doing it constantly, and the disadvantage will be really big if you don't play ball too.

One example: our objectively superior product with a great design and great functional foundation was substantially less popular than the dirty rip off that had their site built with cheap oDesk labor and designed with cheesy stock photos, but spent ridiculous amounts of money on SEO and fake Facebook comments. We were substantially cheaper too. There was literally no reason to ever use the other person's offering, and there was no reason for them to show up ahead of us on searches, but they did.

Don't believe Google's line of BS that to get to the top you just need to put out good content. It's total nonsense. What you need are backlinks, which are bought and laundered into a network of sites controlled by the same SEO group, and social media clout, which is bought by paying third-world contractors $1.50/hr to make fake Facebook and Twitter profiles and talk about your company.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER59> Considering how cold it gets up here in Canada, this is scary.

<comment><USER60> Scary enough to have redundancy?

edit: I'm talking about redundant systems. A wood fireplace, for example.

You should have a backup of any form of technology you rely on to maintain your life. We regularly do it with far less critical applications.

<comment><USER61> Think about what you just said. Redundancy for a thermostat. You know, that thing that before the Nest you never even had to think about.

<comment><USER62> Perhaps not, but I have lost power for a week during a blizzard and it was nice to have a fire-place (redundancy). Disregarding the power-loss scenerio, if my any part of my HVAC system fails, I have space-heaters.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER63> I looked into this, but I quickly realised I never use my Thermostat.

My heating is controlled by a time-switch that directly enables the boiler in the morning and at night, and as far as I know this is how most people I know operate.

We do have thermostats but they are largely ignored boxes that sit in the hallway and/or landing.

Is this just something to do with living in a cold country? I would have thought a nest equivalent that directly operates the boiler would have been a better device ...

<comment><USER64> Sounds like you have a water-pipe central heating system. You probably have thermostatic valves on each radiator, which control the flow to each radiator.

That's why the main thermostat doesn't do much.

<comment><USER63> Yep exactly! It's pretty much standard here. So I guess the Nest is targeting people with electric heating only? Sounds like taking a "quick win" while ignoring a potentially larger market!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER65> Nest is arrogant and obnoxious as a product. It is overrated and unnecessary. So ridiculous when you stop and think about it. If you ever scroll through the settings, it's completely laughable that this is all for a thermostat.

And all for some supposed improvement that is marginal at best. At worst, it simply doesn't work; taking over and setting some uncomfortable temperature that you never requested. My old thermostat worked just fine. Set it on exactly what I liked, so there was no need for it to "learn". I literally gave it a specific number. Don't really get the concept of wanting it to second guess me.

When I Googled and found others with similar issues, they seemed to be largely insulted on forums, as if the users were somehow unworthy of the wonderful Nest. They just hadn't invested enough time in understanding what the Nest wants.

The whole thing seems like a hoax--an elaborate parody of the times.

</comment><comment><USER66> If the software fails this often, they really should have some sort of reversion mode with multiple watchdogs that runs on a tiny microcontroller and just keeps the temperature at 70 degrees. If they can't get that right, maybe just a hard switch that wires in a calibrated bimetalic strip to keep the wheels on until the software is fixed.

</comment><comment><USER67> I've had a Nest for ~ 3 years now. It was a mistake. The "learning" on it is not intelligent enough to understand the idiosyncrasies of our 60 yr old house. I have to manually adjust it every day to make sure my kids are roasting/freezing in their bedrooms. I really should just switch it back to a manual thermostat.

<comment><USER68> Disable the autoaway settings and you have a conventional thermostat with the advantage of being able to remotely adjust the temperature.

<comment><USER69> And use something like Skylark to set home or away based on geofencing your phone.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER70> Perhaps we need to start looking at arbitration clauses the same as we see doing business with some company is some distant country. Fine when everything goes smoothly, but expect to lose your money if it doesn't.

The way to look at it is that a company with an arbitration clause might as well not be in the US.

</comment><comment><USER71> It isn't a smart/learning thermostat, but I've been very happy with my [http://www.radiothermostat.com/](http://www.radiothermostat.com/) CT30 - <USER2> it hasn't left me in the cold. There is a newer model now, but you can get them with a Wifi or z-wave module. It has a json API and of course that means there are free apps too.

I easily added a few controls to my own home automation system and now I can control it from anywhere and I don't need a 3rd party (other than the internet) involved. What do I like the most? Since I've set it up I haven't had to physically touch it. Programming it through json or an app is easier than the buttons on it. Now if you want a smart/learning t-stat, you'll want something else.

</comment><comment><USER72> After seeing this article, I noticed my Nest hadn't been "online" since December 26th.

It could not see any wifi ssid's: not mine, not my neighbors', nor my iPhone's hotspot held right next to it. It was fully charged, not sluggish -- none of the problems listed as 'typical problems'.

I went through the menu system and did a reset. I think that was a soft reboot. Still no success.

Then I found you could reset it by pushing it in for 10 seconds until it turns off. It seemed more like a hard reset, and voila -- network back up.

It's anecdotal, but this firmware update doesn't seem to be just about the charging. They seem to have messed up the wireless capabilities until a hard reset is performed.

</comment><comment><USER73> I find these companies deeply deceptive and disingenuous which advertise IoT things (or anything that contains more than 100k lines of code) so reliable as not to warn possible consequences or offer solid fallback mechanisms.

</comment><comment><USER74> Again? This smells like class action for negligence is coming at them this time.

</comment><comment><USER75> Interesting. This happened to me on the fifth and I assumed it had been an isolated glitch. The steps I had to take to make the thermostat work again were quite nonintuitive, and it was frustrating at how little help there was to be found in the available documentation.

</comment><comment><USER76> Why don't they build in a simple fail safe on the Nest?

That is, have a user settable manual switch that fails to "heat on" if there is no response from the main unit.

The house would be quite hot - but probably much less damaging than frozen pipes.

The liability costs for frozen pipes could be staggering.

</comment><comment><USER77> I had been thinking of buying a Nest, now I think I'll attempt to build my own using a Raspberry Pi. There are some very inexpensive bluetooth beacons that support temperature measurement...

Does anyone have ideas for cool hardware or algorithms for something like this?

<comment><USER78> Digi-Key is your friend. Build yourself a daughter card with a bunch of relay driver IC's and 24VAC relays. Bare minimum is three, but there are several different arragements for home HVAC, and more doesn't hurt. Some high-SEER rating HVAC units also have multiple speeds. Say, 6-8 relays for some flexibility. Check behind your existing thermostat and see how many wires it gets to be sure.

Most units just use bang-bang control around some known limits. Something I've always wanted to try is to have a "periodic recirculation" mode for the times that I'm relying on passive solar heating, just to turn over the stratified air.

<comment><USER77> Great ideas.

> Something I've always wanted to try is to have a "periodic recirculation" > mode

Yes! That is one thing I want to try too.

I did an experiment in an office setting during summer where I found that if set on "auto" someone would inevitably turn the thermostat down to 65 to cool some spot that was in the sun or where the air had gotten too warm. When I switched the fan to "always on" I would set the thermostat to 70 and nobody would feel the need to adjust it.

I suppose depending on the cost of running the compressor vs the fan my approach may not have saved money, but it was interesting to see the difference in comfort offered by both.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER79> I love Nest, but this is the exact reason why I have not installed one in my mountain home. I have to keep the heater set at 55 so the pipes won't freeze and burst.

A bug like this would be financially catastrophic.

</comment><comment><USER80> I have a mercury thermostat in the basement set to 12C directly across the thermostat leads. I live in a cold place, if the heat goes off things get damaged. You can't beat simplicity.

</comment><comment><USER81> So how many people will use this lesson about _common mode failure_ to re- evaluate their risk assessment of technology with a central point of failure?

</comment><comment><USER82> Now think about all the people installing "smart" smoke detectors.

</comment><comment><USER83> Dude, did you try rebooting your thermostat?

</comment><comment><USER84> this is what happens when people want to keep advancing and be looked at as "superior". "wow you still have that old LG ac box, why don't you go get a nest man" if it isn't broke, don't fix it. now you get screwed. hahaha.</comment>


Ask HN: I'm Talking to a High School Class about Entrepreneurship  - <AUTHOR>

What are critical points to hit to make it relevant to them? <comment><USER2> Since they'll most likely be sleep-deprived and bored, how about something interactive?

You could have them all split up into groups of 1-3 people and brainstorm business ideas for 10 minutes, and then as a whole class, spend 3-5 minutes discussing whether each idea is viable. This would give you plenty of chances to speak on certain topics without it being an hour of soapboxing.

<comment><USER3> I agree completely. Don't try to teach about business via academic abstractions. Come up with a project that allows you to explain basic concepts.

Also, I highly recommend the book "Accounting Fresh from the Lemonade Stand". It uses the story of a lemonade stand (in which the reader is the owner) to explain accounting concepts. It's extremely effective and much more interesting than a typical textbook on the subject.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Hi, OP! I'm currently a senior in high school, and I am also very interested in entrepreneurship (created and am now marketing <http://www.pillsoftware.com>). What really sparked my interest in startups and technology was how technology can have a huge impact on others' lives and be very profitable at the same time.

I like whichdan's idea of having the class split into groups and brainstorm business ideas, and then coming back together to discuss the ideas. I also think it is important to stress that starting a business involves a lot of hard work, and that the media might portray certain businesses that seem to find success very quickly, but in reality it's a long process on the road to success.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks jjets, I'm going to make sure to highlight both of those facts, the ability to make a huge impact (and money), but also how hard it really is.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> What a great opportunity!

If you can show a video, the Apple 'Think Different' ad would make an inspired intro: <http://youtu.be/4oAB83Z1ydE>

A fun activity could be to get them into groups, and get them to look at a certain product or issue through an 'Entrepreneurial Lens' - How can we make this better? How could we reach customers? You could have them fill out a lean canvas with their ideas :)

</comment><comment><USER6> That they need to have an output for their ideas (coding, writing, designing, audio etc) To become a successful entrepreneur you have to push your ideas into a creative outlet. The more they master a route to producing/shipping the easier it is to get feedback & achieve recognition,sales,profit & ulitmately success.</comment>


Confederate Statues Were Never Really About Preserving History - <AUTHOR> https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/confederate-statues/ <comment><USER2> I think Jerry Sexton said [1] it best in defense of the KKK memorial in the Tennessee capitol building.

> It was not against the law to own slaves back then. Who knows, maybe some of > us will be slaves one of these days. Laws change.

Tear them all down.

[1] [https://www.wsmv.com/video/tn-legislator-makes- controversial...](https://www.wsmv.com/video/tn-legislator-makes- controversial-comment-about-slavery-during-debate-over-forrest- bust/video_11d1d94d-6203-5bbd-bf42-2565bd12b6e2.html)

</comment><comment><USER3> The idea that the US Confederacy was about anything other than slavery is utterly farcical after just a cursory reading of primary sources from that era. Not the least of which is The Cornerstone Speech, an oration given by Confederate Vice President Alexander H. Stephens in Savannah, Georgia, on March 21, 1861.

The key excerpt is this, "Its [The Confederacy's] foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests upon the great truth, that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery—subordination to the superior race—is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth"

Source: [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornerstone_Speech](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornerstone_Speech)

Some other good primary sources are the states' own declarations of succession. Here's the opening paragraphs from Mississippi's:

"In the momentous step which our State has taken of dissolving its connection with the government of which we so long formed a part, it is but just that we should declare the prominent reasons which have induced our course.

Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin."

Source: [http://www.civilwar.com/resources/government/confederate- sta...](http://www.civilwar.com/resources/government/confederate-states-of- america-government-documents/148335-declaration-of-secession-mississippi.html)

The other states' declarations all contain similar language. This isn't oral history, editorial, or "spin". These are official government documents that are widely available.

People who put forth that the US Civil War was not primarily about slavery, that the Confederacy's own self-declared foundations were anything other than the subjugation of humans based on their race, are either ignorant or arguing in bad faith.</comment>


Thank You HN - Free Launchly Promo Code - <AUTHOR>

I just want to say thank you to the HN community for taking the time to review my latest app, launchly, and for all that they do in general.  HN is an invaluable resource for me personally.
Launchly has been doing very well recently with articles appearing in RWW, Mashable, and softpedia so I'm really excited for the future.
When I originally submitted my request for feedback for launchly, the app was still in free beta mode.  I have since started charging for it but I want to offer a promo code to the HN community so they can still try it out for free.
The promo code is good for 1 week from today.  You will enter it in the form when you create a new launch.  It will completely bypass all billing information.
Promo Code:  HN_LAUNCH
http://www.launchly.com <comment><USER2> I just checked quickly and I would suggest you purchase the launch.ly domain.

<http://www.libyanspider.com/>

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> Hey thanks for the idea. I just bought it. Now to figure out what to do with it haha.</comment>


The 50 Best Ambient Albums of All Time - <AUTHOR> http://pitchfork.com/features/lists-and-guides/9948-the-50-best-ambient-albums-of-all-time/ <comment><USER3> Ambient, that's what music critics call new age that they like. Or perhaps the other way around: new age is something they attach to ambient that's not perceived as being serious or authentic enough. Either doesn't imply much more than "instrumental" as far as I can see.

An old Billboard magazine claimed new age music was characterised by people getting lyrical about its spirituality and healing properties. I haven't seen much of that, but I do observe that for instance this article gets lyrical about its supposed effect on their neurochemistry, which is even more ridiculous.

</comment><comment><USER4> Piotr Janeczek (aka Ashaneen) should be on that list somewhere. I suggest his album aptly entitled Ambient Music. Check out "Return to Home" for a sampling.

</comment><comment><USER5> I really love Telomere but he seems to be a relative unknown despite being around for several decades

</comment><comment><USER6> Future Sound of London - <USER2>

</comment><comment><USER7> why is this on hacker news

<comment><USER8> Because many people enjoy coding/working while listening to ambient music</comment></comment>


New Surveillance System May Let Cops Use All of the Cameras - <AUTHOR> https://www.wired.com/2016/05/new-surveillance-system-let-cops-use-cameras/ <comment><USER2> Are there stats on how many CCTV cameras are deployed in the Bay Area? It seems like almost every major intersection has cameras pointing at every angle to see at and into every passing car.</comment>


Thieve Premium AliExpress - <AUTHOR> https://thieve.co/premium <comment><AUTHOR> We just launched this, super stoked with how it turned out. Basically we want to help people buy better products and so it's a human curated list of products that we reviewed then photographed. Enjoy!

<comment><USER2> Do you get an affiliate commission when people buy on AliExpress via your site? If so, you should probably disclose that somewhere.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> > Coffee Clamp and Spoon, from USD 2.99 for USD 2.99

Great discount there (bug).</comment>