I'm a creep. I'm sorry - <AUTHOR> https://500hats.com/im-a-creep-i-m-sorry-d2c13e996ea0 <comment><USER2> A lot of people here seem to not understand the power imbalance point, so I'd like to explain it.

Imagine you're in these positions: \--Being arrested, and an officer makes a romantic advance \--On trial, and the judge makes a romantic advance \--In therapy, and the therapist makes a romantic advance \--At the doctor, and the doctor makes a romantic advance \--At the bank, and the banker makes a romantic advance \--In a restaurant, and the waiter makes a romantic advance \--At work, and the cleaning staff makes a romantic advance \--In class, and the teacher makes a romantic advance \--Buying a car, and the car dealer makes a romantic advance

Obviously each of these situations is a little different, and the appropriateness of flirting in each situation is a little bit different (for example a therapist will lose the ability to practice for life if they date a client, e.g. Dr. Phil).

When you consider why some of these are obviously wrong (cop, judge, therapist, teacher) it's because the individual in question has a responsibility to make a neutral judgement call that will have a meaningful impact on your life.

Now I'm not saying I have the answer to this, but I think we need to begin the discussion by establishing some principles.

<comment><USER3> We need to legalize prostitution so that an investor or manager who has these fantasies can play them out with professional help. If we viewed prostitutes as a form of health therapist and gave them professional respect rather than keeping them in the black market a lot of these guys could work out their power issues with a trained sex professional instead of creating these nightmares for innocent women who just want to do a great job or run a successful startup.

<comment><USER4> You're assuming these guys see this as a problem. I suspect for most of them, the power issues are, erotically, the whole point. Why patronize a prostitute for make believe alpha male abuse of one's position when one has the real thing every day?

<comment><USER5> Plus, if it really is a power thing, then paying for the prostitute immediately screws that up. They're paying, so they know it's not as real as it would be if they didn't.

Maybe if you could pay prostitutes for them as a third party in some way, that could work.

<comment><USER6> We need the Uber of prostitution!

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Is it just me, or is committing public seppuku like this really necessary? If what he did was illegal, he should face prosecution. If he's compelled to apologize and admit his guilt, he should reach out to the people he actually wronged. This kind of public self-flagellation ("I'm such a creep. Please forgive me, world.") feels really over the top, phony, and symbolic.

<comment><USER8> Totally agree. There's something very weird about this post. If I were truly faced with the sudden realization that I was a deeply shitty person, I can't imagine writing a post like this. I'd be off the grid entirely, probably drinking in a ditch some place. I know I can't speak for others and everyone is different, but the human element is missing here somehow. It does feel very PR.

<comment><USER9> His career depends very much on his reputation, and his reputation was just dragged through the mud over the past week. It's difficult to know whether this introspection and contrition is genuine, but his post is all about salvaging his name.

<comment><USER10> Even if it isn't genuine (and it appears genuine to me) then it's a step forward for a Silicon Valley head to recognise their actions are wrong.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> To make this a bit more abstract:

Bob is a big wheel over at SomeCompany. Bob is outside work drinking with some friends, say Eve, and runs into Alice. Alice joins them and while she doesn't currently work for SomeCompany she indicates to Bob she would like to join. Bob, like most people, hangs out with a lot of people with similar interests/skill-sets/abilities. As the night wanes, Bob flirts with Alice. Alice declines Bob's advances. SomeCompany ends up not hiring Alice.

So where are we on the morality meter here? First, it is clearly inappropriate to flirt with people you may want to hire. Obviously. But the empathetic side of the argument is that just because you're a big wheel at the cracker factory that shouldn't mean you can never go 'off the clock' and do things humans tend to do like try to get laid. Work and life have become so blended for so many people it's unrealistic to expect this not to happen. We created this culture of 'living to work' and this is a consequence. We should expect these sorts of messy situations to occur and build sane rules/expectations around them. But go ahead and throw stones/downvote/ act outraged. That'll solve the problem.

<comment><USER12> I think you're right: Alice has established from the start that it's a professional relationship. Continuing to flirt with her is inappropriate. There's no work-life balance element to this: Bob's welcomed to try to get laid. But he should find someone else. Other fish in the sea.

For better or worse, that's one of the trade-offs of being a "big wheel." You have to consider how your actions might affect a whole constellation of people around you.

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> I've got to wonder, why do coworkers go out for drinks if it's not a social setting? I don't understand the logic of mixing alcohol with colleagues if you're still under the "workplace" umbrella.

<comment><USER14> I don't really understand socializing with co-workers outside of work under any circumstances, but especially with intoxicants involved. This includes company holiday parties, etc. Let work be work, and keep your social life separate. I've seen far more bad than good come out of such things.

<comment><USER15> Although the percentage is declining, many relationships still begin at work [1]

The real issue is a power imbalance, but this issue also exists in other settings as well.

Alcohol inhibits your judgement, but many people can successfully consume alcohol without adverse social consequences.

[https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/03/08/how-m...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/03/08/how- much-life-has-changed-in-one-incredible-chart-about-dating/)

<comment><USER16> This cut both ways. Power inbalance has the problem that sex is a extremely common strategy for gaining power in human societies. Predators can take any side on the relationship.

<comment><USER17> All the more reason not to engage (or attempt to initiate) a sexual or romantic relationship with a subordinate or superior.

<comment><USER16> Well, the problem is that then all we would have is a closed caste system, that is a very undesirable situation in itself and much worse.

<comment><USER5> Uh, no.

You know it used to be that men and women didn't work together, right? Like, this idea of being able to date at work has only been around for about 50 years or so, while the human race has been around for thousands. Somehow we figured out how to reproduce in the West without a "closed caste system" just fine. You can too, without dating anyone at your job.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> I don't know the guy aside from what I have read in the press (both good and bad), but I'd like to think he wrote this with genuine sincerity.

Hopefully this is the start of a groundswell trend of traits such as 'accountability' and 'taking responsibility for your actions' becoming fashionable and an expected part of human behaviour again.

<comment><USER19> Call me cynical, but I suspect all these apology posts are written largely by the poster's PR firm.

<comment><USER20> This one sounds pretty genuine. With something of this nature you'd be stupid not to have PR people help out, but it does sound genuine.

It sounds like he's stepping back and taking a very hard look at his actions and behavior. Hopefully he improves and doesn't do the same in the future.

Also, hopefully other similarly situated people see this and learn from his (now very public) mistakes.

<comment><USER19> The best PR is usually going to be PR that doesn't sound like PR. I do hope people learn from this, but I tend to be dubious of "I've changed!" statements immediately after getting caught.

<comment><USER5> Well, let's be fair here: He didn't say "I've changed" he said "I am trying to change." And this isn't necessarily immediately after getting caught, but after the story was published in the New York Times; it's implied earlier that other people in the company approached him and explained to him that his behavior was unacceptable.

I think it's PR, but that doesn't automatically mean he isn't genuinely apologizing. The two are not mutually exclusive.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> Caveat, McClure's behavior was bad. But seeing recent public floggings for misbehavior I now wonder if people are feeling a bit hypersensitive/cautious about any workplace conduct that could potentially be perceived as harassment.

Case in point. You work at a technology company. You are attracted to another coworker, who is NOT your subordinate. Is there some manner in which it is acceptable to express your interest? Or is this just not OK at all?

<comment><USER22> I think asking coworkers out is a huge no-no. If the only people in your orbit you feel you can connect with that way are at work, that's a sign your personal life needs some development. However, let's say you have a robust personal life, and you just have this absolutely amazing co-worker, who totally is not your subordinate, and ideally you don't even work directly with, and you want to ask them out... again.. I discourage it.... but:

Ask them out someplace public outside of work. If they say no, that means no, and just drop it. If you hear "I don't know, I don't really like to date coworkers" that's also a no - don't push the issue. If they say "I don't think that's a good idea" \- also a no. If they say "Eh....." or laugh or whatever, it's a no, and just drop it.

Be aware a no could make things really awkward for you two, and it may even piss off your co-worker who perhaps viewed you as this great work friend but now thinks things are weird. It can hurt them in other ways: they may also blame themselves for not being more into you, and question if they lead you on. So if you get rejected, just say "Hey that's cool. It was a long-shot, I understand."

<comment><USER23> 'Asking out co-workers is a huge no-no' \- to me this feels almost anti- humanist to the point where business is truly more important than our own lives, our being, our existence and our own free will. There is a massive difference between asking out co-workers and sexual harassment.

<comment><USER24> I agree. Answers like the above one indicate a level of dystopia/fear that itself is concerning. Friendship on any level is highly dependent on proximity in space and time. We need to be aware of how our righteous minds work and stop throwing stones all over the place.

<comment><USER23> Exactly my feelings, I wouldn't hire someone into my team that I didn't think couldn't become my friend should the situation play out as such, it just seems logical to me.

<comment><USER25> That sounds like pretty dysfunctional hiring process, no matter what gender of candidate.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> Reading these comments makes me really depressed for the future of our society. Let me get this straight -

1\. Don't go out with co-workers. 2\. Don't make friends with co-workers. 3\. Def. never drink with co-workers.

Have we really become this sensitive? There's a voice in me that's screaming 'fuck off' to this kind of attitude. I can't quite articulate why it infuriates me so much.

<comment><USER12> That's what you've taken from all of this? Don't drink with co-workers?

I don't think that's what's causing the outrage, here...

<comment><USER27> I'm pretty sure OP is referring to a bunch of other comments here that were saying those exact things - that to avoid such a situations from arising in the first place, refrain from doing anything non-work related with coworkers.

Which is all hilarious to me because I'm friends with a lot of my coworkers, drink with them, and even have had the audacity to casually (and mutually) flirt with a couple of them. Based on what I've been reading in these comments, my career ought to be crumbling down by now.

I think some commenters are focusing too much on the non-professional aspect and not enough on the power-imbalance aspect presented in some of these cases.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER28> I for one am happy to see a true apology here, not an "I'm sorry if I offended you" statement that so many people make the days.

This has all the points of a proper apology: an understanding of the wrong committed, acknowledging that it was his fault, and demonstrating commitment to change. It also appears to be sincere

<comment><USER29> It's a qualified apology. I dislike how he not-so-subtly tries to justify his actions by painting a context that delegitimizes Sarah's claims.

It's worth noting that Sarah claims that many other women contacted her with similar stories of harassment, the fact that all of them are also women of color is especially telling (as were all of Caldbeck's victims).

I mean if he wants to bring up contextual details, maybe McClure should mention that like Caldbeck, he is also married. So how more scummy can you be? A sexist harasser _and_ an adulterer. These guys are only sorry they got caught and are now back pedaling to save some face.

People need to understand that this type of behavior causes terrible damage on the victims which can last for years and often leave permanent scars. So it's especially fucked up and unjust that people like McClure and Caldbeck, when caught, can simply make a half-assed -- and in the case of Caldbeck and Sacca, narcissistic -- apology; lay low for a few months; and then jump right back as if nothing happened.

For fuck's sake one of the LPs at Binary _knew_ about Caldbeck's reputation and harassment issues _and_ still invested.

</comment></comment><comment><USER30> Not sure what to say, or how to make things whole for his victims as there is a very wide spectrum of consequence between 'boys will be boys' and capital punishment.

I really encourage him to think in terms of 'next steps' to make amends when it comes to those affected by his behavior. Anything less, in my completely and totally unqualified opinion, is but self-serving lip service.

</comment><comment><USER31> A HUGE percentage of couples meet through work.

It's not inherently wrong, or something inherently taboo. (We've all been told not to stick our pens in the company ink, but... time and time again we also see examples of happily married couples who met on the job... Bill Gates' wife worked for Microsoft, The Obamas met while they were working together, Ryan Reynolds & Blake Lively met on the set of Green Lantern...)

So it feels like the message here is, "It's fine when it works, and it's totally not fine when it doesn't work." The only way to know if it's fine is to ask. It's not really something you can make universal rules for. To each their own, right? (I would say a wedding ring means someone is off limits, but affairs happen all the time too.)

Point being, it has to be something more than, "It's OK to hit on someone if they are attracted to you." I think hitting on someone is inherently a compliment. But if they say no, and you try again, and they still say no, well probably don't try a third time. This guy is apologizing for being called a creep after hitting on someone once... man, that's rough. You don't know until you try.

There needs to be a little more flex here, it can't just come down to, "Anyone who we don't feel attraction to should be fired if they pay us a poorly worded compliment or tell a bad joke." Stalkers, sure... people who try and leverage their position in the company to get laid (with the implication), yeah... but just some guy who tries to clumsily flirt with a girl and can't play it smooth because he's fundamentally not a player and actually likes her... come on, cut that guy some slack.

<comment><USER19> Much of the issue isn't just "meeting through work", but the power imbalance. Of your examples, only Gates includes this imbalance.

I don't know the specifics of their situation, but I'd hope that he recused himself from being directly involved in her performance reviews etc., whereas McClure was _explicitly_ tying his attraction to the hiring decision - "I was getting confused figuring out whether to hire you or hit on you."

<comment><USER31> I'd be more worried about the guy who she says no to who keeps coming. Poor judgement... maybe, but who knows what signals he was reading into the situation at the time. He just sounds like a guy who doesn't have a lot of experience with women, and he tried to make a joke and it didn't go well. Now he's gotta read about his failed flirtation attempts in the NYT. That's gotta be rough.

If he was overt, or repetitive, or really sleazy... yeah sure, I'm not on his side. But to me this just comes off as a guy who hit on someone who was out of his physical league and she didn't appreciate it (probably also because she didn't get offered a job). I don't think Dave McClure deserves to be crucified over this.

<comment><USER19> > If he was overt, or repetitive, or really sleazy... yeah sure, I'm not on > his side.

The apology explicitly states "I made advances towards _multiple_ women in work-related situations, where it was _clearly_ inappropriate."

<comment><USER31> I'd be more worried if he made multiple advances to the same woman after being shot down multiple times by that woman. That's harassment.

He's just... well... he seems like a really lonely guy.

<comment><USER32> You might have had a point in your first comment, now you're just defending a guy who won't even defend himself, for some reason.

<comment><USER31> Fair, it's late and I was just trying to clarify my point.

This whole thread is toxic.

Nothing but polarized opinions. I'd like it if there was more middle ground, and a lot less emotionally-charged up/down votes. When the points start feeling like Reddit, it's a huge turnoff.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER33> I think it's clear from these comments that all companies, everywhere, are doing a terrible job with their sexual harassment training. When otherwise highly intelligent and educated people haven't even heard of power imbalance or hostile work environments, or "intent is irrelevant", this is a huge problem.

If you're running a company, please make it a priority to start real, meaningful sexual harassment training right now. Good god.

<comment><USER34> I couldn't believe the guy here who was like, sure I heard the constant accusations, but I never believed they were actually _true_!

I mean, what will it take to make people believe that this problem is real?!

</comment></comment><comment><USER35> You have to assume all of these apologies are written with the help of PR firms and crisis management teams. Sacca's was the most obviously phony, which makes sense since he's trying to protect his new TV career.

There are way more of these creeps than these stories will let out. It really depends how well connected you are to the media machine in SV. Binary Capital and 500 are both too small and irrelevant to cause problems for the reporters breaking these stories, but what about Peter Thiel's friends? You can't even talk about them without worrying about going bankrupt.

There are a lot of women out there who are watching these stories and saying absolutely nothing, because they know the odds are still stacked against them. Exposing a couple mid tier guys doesn't mean anything.

</comment><comment><USER36> I don't like this world where every social interaction could have drastic, long-lasting effects on my reputation. Where every employee's word/deed is taken as a company action, unless otherwise specified.

I'm human, and I'm fallible. I will make, or have already made, a bad decision that someone else will be able to hold over me for the rest of my life.

People need to be allowed to make mistakes so they can learn from them. Not be crucified to make an example for others.

Good for him for apologizing. I don't envy his position. It's lonely at the top.

</comment><comment><USER37> I'm not going to congratulate this guy or call him brave or anything, and I'm just going to mention that I consider this proof that speaking up against unfair treatment (in this case, harassment) _can_ have an impact.

The only thing I'm going to commend about this post is that it's nice that he's trying not to bring the company (and thus, his colleagues) down with him.

<comment><USER38> Presumably a large amount of his net worth is tied up in this company. So of course he doesn't want to take it down.

</comment></comment><comment><USER39> I can't help it but I can't find any reason to consider this as having > 0 information. You are absolutely forced and 100% expected to do this in a situation now, right?

I, honestly, find this very disturbing (black mirror way), regardless of my opinion on the matter at hand.

<comment><USER40> > You are absolutely forced and 100% expected to do this in a situation now, > right?

Not remotely. Just look at any of the recent Fox News harassment scandals, or literally anything involving the current POTUS.

</comment></comment><comment><USER41> Refreshing to see an actual apology instead of a digging in of heels common to tech industry shittiness (see: Notch). The apology may(?) be cathartic for the people he's harassed but the damage is done. He's only apologizing as a forced response from the major public backlash. The only silver lining I see is others will be (and are) scared about this kind of behavior which used to go unchecked.

</comment><comment><USER42> One thing I'd like to see from these people on the inside is some sense of where this comes from. Where did they learn it? What does it say about others in the VC club who saw something and said nothing? This stuff has obviously been condoned for years and years and years, he should help dismantle it more than falling on his own sword. Reveal the secret handshake(s).

</comment><comment><USER43> His response reminded me of the famous 'Asoh Defense', when Captain Kohei Asoh accidently put a perfectly good plane into the water on approach to SFO [0]

> Asoh, when asked by the NTSB about the landing, reportedly replied, "As you > Americans say, I f__d up." In his 1988 book The Abilene Paradox, author > Jerry B. Harvey termed this frank acceptance of blame the "Asoh defense", > and the story and term have been taken up by a number of other management > theorists.

I believe Dave McClure taking responsibility for his mistakes in such a strong way is a step towards repairing the damage caused by his inappropriate behavior.

[0] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Airlines_Flight_2#The_.2...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Airlines_Flight_2#The_.22Asoh_defense.22)

<comment><USER34> One could also term it "adult behavior".

</comment></comment><comment><USER44> when this happens it goes beyond just being a creep at work. the people you do this may fear retaliation for reporting the incident, work with you after (he still works at the company), and face down skeptics who can belittle what happened

this post shows some thoughtfulness, but my reaction is "stay far away from this person and this company"

</comment><comment><USER45> Assuming McClure follows through by 1) refraining from harassing any more people and 2) making things right with the particular people he hurt, it doesn't matter whether he is sincere or not. How would you even tell what's in his mind? What matters is that he has changed the common knowledge of what behavior he publicly endorses (or in this case, condemns) [1]. His apology is proof of sorts that he will follow a better standard of behavior, because now he stands to be treated as a liar and hypocrite on top of the normal punishment if he backslides.

From our side, if we as a community continue to denigrate him even after he has done the most he possibly could to change the moral consensus on this topic for the better, we're going to discourage others from apologizing and drive them to deny. Why bear the cost of admitting you're wrong if there's no benefit?

[1] I highly recommend Rational Ritual: Culture, Coordination, and Common Knowledge by Michael Suk-Young Chwe for a game-theoretic exploration of topics like this. [http://press.princeton.edu/titles/9998.html](http://press.princeton.edu/titles/9998.html)

</comment><comment><USER46> As someone once said, "You can offer an excuse or you can offer an apology, but you can't offer both."

I'm not sure which this is. It sounds to me like both.

<comment><USER47> That's probably correct. His 'apology' included a contradiction of certain statements made in the NY Times story by the woman he harassed, specifically that her rejection of him was the reason she was not being hired by his company. I think he wanted that on the record.

</comment></comment><comment><USER48> I was pretty critical on here just yesterday about Dave McClure. I'd never met him in person but felt like his behavior was unlike the guy I felt I knew from his writings and interviews.

This is heads above the apologies from Justin Caldbeck and Sacca though I wished he'd written it months ago, back when the changes at 500 Startups were first made. It's a good start, but only the beginning.

</comment><comment><USER49> I wish there was a way to give imaginary internet upvote points to all the people who didn't act like harassing shitheads, but I guess we're stuck with giving them to this asshole, who whines about "this isn't who I am!" and "I invested in so many of my LGBTQ friends!" months or years afterwords when finally called out on it.

<comment><USER34> Yes, there is something infuriating about this cycle of become rich acting like a jackass -> get called out -> write some apology blog post -> get showered with praise for doing the bare minimum as a human. Of course doubling down and not apologizing is worse, but I guess at some point you have to ask _materially_ , what really is the difference.

Women entrepreneurs who had trouble getting funded because VCs could only think about their dicks, what do they gain from this?

</comment></comment><comment><USER50> This is how I feel anytime I want to ask a girl out, that I'll come across as a creep haha. I should probably stop watching them through their window.

Edit: this reminds me of the Dove guy from American Apparel happened to listen to some podcasts (too many) about him.

I just wish I believed in myself more and wasn't so hesitant/worry about "getting in trouble"

</comment><comment><USER51> > During the recruiting process, Mr. McClure, a founder of 500 Startups and an > investor, sent her a Facebook message that read in part, "I was getting > confused figuring out whether to hire you or hit on you."

Its interesting to think about what this would be like if the roles were reversed. The VC was female, and the applicant was male.

As a male in this situation I see this as completely neutral, even positive. If the founder likes me, then I have more chance of getting a highly sought after role which I might not have otherwise - as no company really hires solely on merit anyway. As a male, if there is a female HR contact, I would always welcome them flirting with me, as it only increases my chances of getting the job by giving me points when there are subjective evaluations required.

If I was single and interested in this female VC its a clear opening for a date. If I am attracted to her, I could have a date. If not, I could just laugh it off and say I'm already seeing someone. Life moves on.

Now if I push back an advance, they might get petty and decide to not hire me as some kind of revenge, or otherwise, they may be more likely to hire me because they want me around.

\---

Now, obviously this is not a 1-1 analogous situation because of the world as it is today. Some notable differences...

\- There are more male VCs than females. \- There are probably less female applicants for such positions. \- Males are the physically stronger sex. \- Males are more likely to make advances than females (is this true?).

So I am interested in which of these above variables must be inverted to change my reaction. I need to think more on it.

But an interesting aspect is that, perhaps males think like this, and therefore think its okay. I am guessing that its the other gender imbalance variables that make this not applicable vise-versa, which is harder for males to play out in their mind.

<comment><USER52> I'm not sure I totally agree with your comments. In particular:

> Now if I push back an advance, they might get petty and decide to not hire > me as some kind of revenge

I think this is precisely the reason that it's inappropriate, regardless of gender. Even if you (as a hypothetical VC) aren't going to be petty (and let's be honest, emotions are complicated and keeping feelings out of a decision is hard), you've put out the idea that your advances are somehow related to the recruitment process. This will totally make someone uncomfortable, especially when they're probably already sweating about the recruiting process.

<comment><USER51> > This will totally make someone uncomfortable, especially when they're > probably already sweating about the recruiting process.

But from a male perspective (in the hypothetical above), I don't see it at all. I only see it as positive, and I think most males would feel the same. If there were repeated advances, then it would get a bit frustrating. And if I didn't get the job after knocking back repeated advances, then I would definitely see who I could contact about it.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER53> This is a very Dave-like apology and I hope it leads to meaningful change for him as it's clearly creating a bigger conversation. I believe in second chances and I really hope we see Dave back into the trenches. He's done a lot for the industry and it'll be interesting to see if he's welcomed back.

</comment><comment><USER54> I'm not sure if creep is the best word to use here. Creep is a gendered term like slut or bitch.

<comment><USER24> So it would be weird if he called himself a bitch maybe, but he is a male calling himself creep, so I'm confused.

</comment></comment><comment><USER55> Can someone explain to me what he did exactly?

I know he messaged a woman saying "I don't know if I should hire you or hit on you."

What kind of environment were they in? Were they hanging out socially or professionally? Was she formally in a recruitment process with his firm?

It seems to me that they were in a socially ambiguous situation and that McClure interpreted the environment wrong and did some innocuous flirting. This doesn't seem like a huge deal to me.

This stepping down from his job and public self-flagellation seems overblown to me but I feel like I may not fully understand what his actions exactly were.

</comment><comment><USER56> I find that he mentions the situation occurred "over drinks" a way to make it seem less innappropriate. It's pretty simple, don't hit on women you have a business relationship with. I've seen it happen on multiple occasions and I cringe every time.

</comment><comment><USER57> He completely misses the forests from the trees.

Had the woman been hired she would have been denied by him the satisfaction of knowing she earned the position through her hard work, intelligence, and capabilities.

He also does not seem to recognize why he is a creep. Ultimately we find people creepy when they portray themselves and their motives one way and yet secretly or covertly act another.

I recommend therapy so that he can identify his true desires and motivations and then realign his life to optimize for them.

<comment><USER58> Not to be confrontational here (or argue with your primary point), but I'm pretty sure you didn't read the whole post. It says in the post that he's been going attending regular counseling already.

<comment><USER57> Good catch. I did read that but misplaced it when replying.

I am glad he is seeking help but I hope its for purposes of identifying his desires/behaviors and not only mandated by circumstance.

<comment><USER40> > I did read that but misplaced it when replying.

This is some of the most ridiculous phrasing I've ever come across.

<comment><USER57> It is to admit that I could have said "glad to see he is in therapy and hope he finds his true motivations" but I forgot he mentioned it because it is besides the point. The objective of my comment was to throttle down the "creep shaming" going on in this forum and several others.

Many people sometimes act creepily without even being aware of it. A little empathy as to how the other person feels and what their goals are can help one treat them with the respect they deserve. Hopefully the author can discover when his various desires are appropriate to express in context of the circumstances at hand.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER59> Doesn't count. The true character of a person is revealed when there's no one around to punish bad behavior.

</comment><comment><USER60> Meh, nice-written copy-paste apology I guess.

It changes nothing. In my eyes he has a stain for life. Exactly how it should be.

</comment><comment><USER24> Loses his job. Major strike on his career. National public shaming. I'm gonna click the link and go see what murderous crime he committed.

<comment><USER61> People lose their job for all sorts of reasons, no crime necessary. If you're going to worry about people losing their jobs, why don't we start by talking about everyone laid off at Etsy, and importantly, the college kids who were informed two weeks before their internship started that no such internship existed any more?

As for career and public shame: he's had a wildly successful career and significant public praise in his lifetime. I think he can deal with it.

As I wrote in another thread, take a look at Brendan Eich. If losing your job and being publicly shamed leads to being in charge of a well-funded, well- respected growing startup with a real product (plus whatever net worth he has from his previous employment, none of which was taken from him), I would like to know how to sign up to be publicly shamed like that.

<comment><USER24> i.e. 'if they are powerful, nothing done to them can be called injustice' progressive.

<comment><USER61> As with most things in real life, my thoughts here are quite a bit more complex than a half-sentence inaccurate absurdist reduction plus an unrelated political label at the end. Are you interested in having discussions involving multiple complete sentences, or have I wasted my time replying?

<comment><USER24> With power comes great responsibility. If we want to move forward with the changes we want to see in the tech culture to something more hospitable to all, we need to highlight those people most responsible for shaping it when they behave poorly. It's inappropriate to be overly concerned about how the offending party is punished since they will likely recover and improve as people in the process. Or even in the case where this is not true, the benefit to the many of calling out their behavior is far more important. And anyway, losing your job and going through an apology/shaming shitstorm is not really that big a deal for someone with his resume. There are plenty of examples of people that went on to better things subsequently.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER62> This reminds me of when Jiam Ghomeshi made a post about being into S&M right before his accusers charged him with rape.

</comment><comment><USER63> Pure PR, if he is really sorry, he should resign from all positions with "power" over other human beings...

<comment><USER40> If he were truly sorry he would retreat to a mountain lair to live out the rest of his days as a monastic hermit. Clearly the fact that he still has a keyboard to type on proves his insincerity. /s

<comment><USER63> A 500 Startups partner just quit, saying leadership was untruthful about the Dave McClure situation

[http://www.businessinsider.com/500-startups-partner-quits- ci...](http://www.businessinsider.com/500-startups-partner-quits-cites-firms- handling-dave-mcclure-charges-2017-7)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER64> Good on this guy for owning up. Now he has a chance to move on without trying to live his life as a lie.

</comment><comment><USER65> I keep a 100% wall between work and personal life for a reason. Anyone I'm doing business with I see at best as a coworker or business acquaintance, so there is no risk of merging those two realms.

If you are powerful man or woman, you should be aware that people who know who you are treat you differently. This Dave McClure guy actually thought all these women were into him purely because he was some amazing dude and not because he could finance their dreams. What a moron

<comment><USER66> Not commenting on this case, but Billy Graham, after seeing what happened to other well know preachers, was never alone with any woman except his wife Ruth. It is a pretty good strategy. Today, a powerful person could probably enhance his/her personal security by having an assistant with an always on camera like some police forces use.

<comment><USER67> He may have been protecting himself from others, but also protecting himself from himself? I don't feel Billy Graham was eager to cheat, but he recognized his potential for giving in to temptation, and made specific choices ahead of time to minimize his risk.

<comment><USER68> > _He may have been protecting himself from others, but also protecting > himself from himself?_

Does it matter? The fact is, if you are a man in a position of power, never being alone in a room with a woman you don't know very well, is starting to sound like a reasonable strategy.

People in other threads have said, that limiting your one-on-ones with women, inhibits their opportunities (perhaps we should not have one-on-ones at all to make that fair). But when there are other people in your life that you need to "protect" from any scandals, I really can't blame these men for picking their loved ones and reputations over "social justice".

This is one of those "going to get worse before it gets better" things.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER69> Is asking a woman if you can buy her coffee sometime sexual harrasment if you do it at the workplace?

<comment><USER70> Yes.

<comment><USER47> No. That's not right. Don't be stupid.

People meet romantic partners and spouses at work all the time - are they all sexual harassers?

The true answer is: "It depends".

<comment><USER70> Don't shit where you eat is a sensible, safe rule to live by; ymmv.

<comment><USER47> I wonder about people like you. Do you live in the real world, and interact with real people? Do you have real friends? Because it doesn't sound like it.

Not dating your coworkers is a sensible rule that some people follow and some companies may have policies around ... but a rule you have no hope in expecting to be universally adhered to. Case in point: The sheer number of (happy and unhappy) couples who met at work.

<comment><USER70> I've worked with plenty of workplace couples, I'm not casting aspersions on them. It can and does work out great for many. I just personally believe in separating work and life. Sorry for the un-nuanced answer.

<comment><USER47> Yeah, some nuance is lost when you label everyone who asks a co-worker out on a date a 'sexual harasser'.

<comment><USER70> Not my intention, sorry you took it that way. What I'm trying to convey is: if the original person asking the question was looking for advice, you probably don't want to cross that line. Work is work. Other stuff is completely separate.

I could totally be wrong and love of his/her/their life is out there in cube H206. I'm just some person online.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER71> The amount Sacca's been virtue signaling about gender equality, racism, how much he loves his wife -- for the last 3 years -- I knew something was up. When he started posting that he had moved to Montana, I got the feeling he was in hiding.

</comment><comment><USER72> It sounds like people are underestimating the pervasive lonileness that even successful young males experience in tech. This does create an incentive for women to play a little loose with their professional behavior, and we only see one side of the story here.

No, I don't mean to excuse McClure's behavior entirely; however, the fact that many of these women did not immediately cease contact after innapropriate advances, and continues to take advantage of funds and mentorship, suggests that these women are at least partly culpable. This isn't victim blaming; when you have hundreds of applicants to choose from/compete with, it isn't a surprise that people use/accept sexual flirtation (and sometimes favors) to get ahead/judge applicants.

People have been selling sex for thousands of years. The only novelty here is the outrage.

<comment><USER73> > It sounds like people are underestimating the pervasive lonileness that even > successful young males experience in tech.

And again this comes up every single time. Just because someone is lonely didn't mean they're entitled to sexually harass someone else. Nor does being horny justify it. Nor does being angry justify violence.

Similarly the fact they have to now choose between throwing away financial opportunity or acquiesce to this harassment is exactly why there is a law there protecting people from it. In part, it's illegal to put people in a position where they have to make that choice.

<comment><USER72> >Similarly the fact they have to now choose between throwing away financial opportunity or acquiesce to this harassment

And what of the situation in which women continue to associate with their harassers? Do they truely have no liability? Why is it impossible to consider the possibility of some women using sex to get ahead? Why does this have to be such an absurdly one sided topic?

And yes, being lonely to the point of depression is indeed justification for making initial advances which may be misconstrued as sexual harassment, when monetary or other favors are accepted. If they do not cease when identified as unwelcome, they become a problem, sure. But the onus is also on the victim to communicate, and continued association is not only a mixed message, the victim begins to take advantage of the sexual tension by leading the harasser on and continuing to accept business favors.

In our rush to protect these women, whom we paint (unfairly and innacurately) as defensless, we only consider the imbalance of power and totally ignore the imbalance of sexual capital that is rife for exploitation especially by females.

I also do not believe that down votes are designed to signal disagreement.

<comment><USER73> > Do they truely have no liability?

Liability in being the victim of harassment?

> Why is it impossible to consider the possibility of some women using sex to > get ahead?

It's not impossible to consider this, but this isn't what is being discussed.

> and continued association is not only a mixed message,

And again you keep missing the point. Continued associated is a result of a _business relationship_. That's exactly the point. By continuing a professional relationship with someone does not mean you are consenting to further sexual advances that you've already declined.

> whom we paint (unfairly and innacurately) as defensless

Again noone is painting anyone as defenseless. You're view of this entire picture is skewed. It is about being placed in situations that people shouldn't have to be placed it. Or make decisions they shouldn't have to make. That doesn't make anyone defenseless. Victims of sexual harassment (whether men or women) have agency in life, it's just situations that they shouldn't be put in.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER32> > It's a qualified apology. I dislike how he not-so-subtly tries to justify > his actions by painting a context that delegitimizes Sarah's claims.

What claims were "deligitimized" and how did he do it?

As for everything else you wrote I'll just say it must be awful living with such a misanthropic view but, hey, you do you.

<comment><USER29> Other posters agree with my read on his apology. While apologizing, McClure is also simultaneously trying to water down Sarah's presentation of the story; that the situation was more/less social in nature... specifically he says stuff like:

 _... years ago over drinks, late one night in a small group ..._

 _... for my inappropriate behavior in a setting I thought was social, but in hindsight was clearly not ..._

I mean, sure, the situation wasn't a formal interview, but by his omission, I take it that it also wasn't a dinner or social outing with friends. He also brings up that drinks were involved, but practically every company/vc sponsored event in the valley has alcohol involved. That doesn't make it okay to proposition an attendee you talked to about an open job position afterwards over _FACEBOOK_ and bring up said job as part of your come-on. I mean this is literally the textbook definition of sexual harassment.

McClure of course doesn't bring up this level of detail about all the other instances where he sexually harassed women, probably because those instances were in even _more_ formal settings and make him look like an even bigger creep.

What is truly misanthropic are apologists like yourself who give guys like this a pass because they write a nicely worded apology on medium after getting caught. _Oh, he 's soooo sincere; and what a good guy he is; and did you know that funded some LGBT initiative!_

Half of the posts on this thread keep on bringing up the issue of workplace romance. It's a total red herring and a crock of shit. There are acceptable and appropriate ways to flirt and date in the workplace (if you must). All it takes is judgement and common sense. The vast majority of men deal with this just fine, and if you're one of them, you should be outraged. Assholes like McClure, and yes he is a _total_ asshole -- that's his whole shtick after all -- poisons the well for us all. We must be unequivocal in renouncing this type of shit. If he wants redemption and kudos he has to earn it, an apology on medium is just the first (small) step. Any less, and you provide justification and cover for the next asshole to behave similarly. His success, contributions to the tech community, whatever, does not justify him demeaning and putting another human being in a shit position -- moreso because he has the power, and by his own admission, knowingly abused it to take advantage over someone is a weaker position. Apologies, no matter how sincere, don't make up for the years of anxiety, therapy, etc. that stuff like this can cause.

<comment><USER32> > He also brings up that drinks were involved, but practically every > company/vc sponsored event in the valley has alcohol involved

So... he's not lying?

> That doesn't make it okay to proposition an attendee you talked to about an > open job position afterwards over FACEBOOK and bring up said job as part of > your come-on. I mean this is literally the textbook definition of sexual > harassment.

Everyone knows that, _including the one who did it_ (at least, now he does).

> McClure of course doesn't bring up this level of detail about all the other > instances where he sexually harassed women, probably because those instances > were in even more formal settings and make him look like an even bigger > creep.

As evidenced by him calling himself a creep and that being the _title of his post_.

> What is truly misanthropic are apologists like yourself who give guys like > this a pass

Did I give him a pass? No.

Did I say that what he did wasn't horrible? No.

Isn't it misanthropic to immediately assume those things about me when I hadn't given you even the slightest suggestion on what I thought of his behavior before this very reply, where I'm condemning it? Yes, it _is_ misanthropic. You just want to think the worst of everyone, and It. Is. Awful.

> what a good guy he is; and did you know that funded some LGBT initiative!

You know? If I were like you, I could easily point out how this poor phrasing can be construed as homophobic, but I won't resort to that. Please.

> if you're one of them, you should be outraged.

I'm gay, and that I see the failings of the opposing side doesn't mean that I think the harassers aren't appalling.

> Assholes like McClure, and yes he is a total asshole -- that's his whole > shtick after all -- poisons the well for us all.

There are many different types of assholes, the ones like McClure aren't the only ones "poisoning the well."

> Apologies, no matter how sincere, don't make up for the years of anxiety, > therapy, etc. that stuff like this can cause.

Case in point.

> Other posters agree with my read on his apology.

This was a weird and non-sequitur opener, btw. Were you going for an appeal to popularity or something? For what it's worth, I thoroughly disagree with your read on his apology.

\---

BTW, _none of this answered my question_.

<comment><USER29> I'd rather not turn this into a pedantic argument where we parse every word, sentence, and phrase. But I'll respond because I think we prob agree more than disagree and trust that you have good intentions and want a dialogue.

> So... he's not lying?

Yes, but my argument is that's besides the point; it's an irrelevant detail entirely to whether or not his actions were totally inexcusable.

> Everyone knows that, including the one who did it (at least, now he does).

Yes, which is why it's completely indefensible.

> As evidenced by him calling himself a creep and that being the title of his > post.

Agreed, McClure is a big creep, but him admitting it doesn't buy him many brownie points in my book. He's admitting it because not doing so will make things even worse for him. He really has no choice in this regards. I'd like to believe he is _genuinely_ sincere, but given his own admitted history of this type of behavior, and awareness of his own actions (which notably did not prevent him from curtailing his creepiness), my default is he is only trying to save face until proven otherwise.

> Isn't it misanthropic to immediately assume those things about me when I > hadn't given you even the slightest suggestion on what I thought of his > behavior before this very reply, where I'm condemning it? Yes, it is > misanthropic. You just want to think the worst of everyone, and It. Is. > Awful.

Pot meets kettle. What you are accusing me of doing, is what you are doing yourself to me, no?

Like you, I don't want to think the worst of everyone, because that's not a very fun world to live in. On the contrary, and like I've said repeatedly, I think McClure is the exception rather than the norm. The majority of men in SV and elsewhere don't behave like him and are not serial sexual harassers.

> You know? If I were like you, I could easily point out how this poor > phrasing can be construed as homophobic, but I won't resort to that. Please.

I brought up the LGBT comment, because people are using 500 Startups's historical support of women, POC, and LGBT initiatives to support McClure. I'm pointing out how glib that line of defense is; that it is actually irrelevant; and makes his behavior look all the worse, especially because his actions are so textbook creepy -- not something you would expect from someone who sincerely believes in enfranchising those who have been historically marginalized.

> I'm gay, and the huge amount of false or exaggerated accusations is one of > the many reasons I'm glad I am. And (because I know you're going to try to > pull this thread), I'm not saying that the accusations against McClure were > unfunded; he clearly admitted his blame.

That's great, and I'm a person of color, but that's irrelevant. His behavior is objectively shitty and must be called out if we want to progress to a better, more equal and civilized society. This is a legitimate issue in our society; I don't think you can go too overboard calling out this type of predatory behavior. It's a real issue with very real consequences for those who are victim to it.

Also, you mention "huge amount of false or exaggerated accusations", but by your own admission, and by McClure himself, all these accusations of him being a serial creep are true. So not false, and not exaggerated.

> There are many different types of assholes, the ones like McClure aren't the > only ones "poisoning the well."

Here is where I disagree with you. There might be more more poisonous apples, but McClure is a real scumbag just by looking at what we know so far:

1) Serial history of this type of behavior 2) Self-awareness that his behavior is bad. 3) Admission that his intent was to take advantage of others. 4) All his accusers are women of color (according to Sarah)

> Case in point.

I don't know what you're trying to imply here.

> This was a weird and non-sequitur opener, btw. Were you going for an appeal > to popularity or something? For what it's worth, I thoroughly disagree with > your read on his apology.

Huh? You made the claim that my view was off-base and misanthropic. I disagree and cite similar views from others to back that point.

> BTW, none of this answered my question.

Let me be more clear then, he tried to delegitimize the harassment by bringing up irrelevant details (there were drinks involved, it was a small group of people, that he thought it was a social event, etc.), that are designed to water down the accusations, or at the least, are designed to give him some sort of cover to "explain" his terrible behavior.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER74> This nerd thought it's okay because he's rich now. Well at least now he knows his place lol.

</comment><comment><USER75> I'm not a creep! Where's my trophy?

</comment><comment><USER76> All those examples give you the same or more power over them.

<comment><USER77> When you're arrested, you have more power over the person who arrested you?

<comment><USER76> Not at all, until they express interest in you.

<comment><USER77> This is very down in the weeds, but let me provide an example.

>I'm going to place you under arrest, but if you give me your number, I might forget about it.

The power dynamic there favors the officer over you. If you don't yield to him/er, you could face prison. That demonstrates the issue with power dynamic leading to sexual harassment is that one with more power over the other coerces them into yielding sexual favors that they otherwise would not consent to.

<comment><USER76> Yes I understand that, but the power dynamic completely shifts when the powerful party shows interest. You might get yourself out of handcuffs by giving your or even a fake number if the powerful party is interested.

<comment><USER78> That's not an example of "shifting the power dynamic"

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER79> Damn, that's a good apology. The guy seems to be working on fixing his behavior.

</comment><comment><USER80> Best part is the woman who confronted the CEO about being a serial sexual- harrasser and ended up CEO.

Edit: Re-reading I can't tell what his title was, only that she was CEO after the fact.

<comment><USER81> You mean his cofounder?

</comment></comment><comment><USER82> [deleted]

<comment><USER18> But to differentiate ourselves from animals, we have this thing called 'civility'. We have the capacity to rationally think about our actions and discard primate style behaviours that do not function in modern society.

Not too many city dwelling men use their narrow focal vision and instinctive ability to calculate parabolic maths and wind speed to throw spears at dinner.

That means they should also curb their instinctive impulses to club the nearest female and drag them back to the cave by her hair...

</comment></comment><comment><USER83> Money can't buy class and all that.

<comment><USER84> It worked in Pretty Woman.

</comment></comment><comment><USER85> Dave's biggest mistake here was actually referring her for a job after this interaction. In the absence of that, it was a late night social event with alcohol where Dave made a pass on a girl (who may or may not have been signaling that this was appropriate as she was angling for a job) and she didn't show interest. End of story.

</comment><comment><USER86> I know a former executive at Homeland Security who was also a federal prosecutor. He's now the head of security for a large company that owns luxury condos.

When I reported a former roommate for prostituting teenage girls (my friends), the security executive said they didn't want to know about it. This led to a dispute and the executive called five of my colleagues, intimidated them and told them lies about me.

The situation quickly devolved from there, involving a complicated tale of criminal and civil charges.

It was shocking to realize how many guys think its okay to offer girls money for sex, even if they're young.

</comment><comment><USER87> This just feels like an save-face operation.

If these fellas want to show their commitment to changing it will require two things in my opinion:

1\. A prolonged period of time without further incident.

2\. Perhaps some dedicated effort to supporting, monetarily or otherwise, the elimination of this sort of behavior at the structural level? Start a campaign against sexism/harassment or something? Though to make it not appear disingenuous they ought to do so in a fake name--that's the problem when you're outed as a manipulator in a position of power, literally every subsequent move you make reads like manipulation. The McClure case as described in the NYT article wasn't too extreme and it is possible that some of it was misunderstanding and the he is being honest--it sounds like, for instance, 500 could have decided to end their conversations with Kunst for reasons beyond the message, but we'll never know. For instance I cannot help but feel the majority of this piece is McClure looking out for McClure and not giving a shit about actually being sorry. Of course I don't _know_ that, but trust is difficult to regain.

Granted, McClure's fuck up does jive with the context he describes here, but it just becomes very difficult to believe any of these apology letters are genuine until some time has passed in which that is shown to be the case.

<comment><USER88> Does a campaign really accomplish anything? Campaigns just seem like a lot of virtue signaling without any actual substance.

How about organizations simply deal with the problem? When there is a complaint, investigate it. If it's legitimate, discipline the perpetrator. If it's an unfounded or malicious claim, discipline the accuser.

It's interesting how SV makes the news for this but sexual harassment/sleeping to the top is standard operating procedure in Hollywood – the VC world makes The NY Times while the everyday stuff that happens in Hollywood would make your skin crawl.

While the SV problem exists, I can't help but feel there is some agenda happening as other power-centric industries don't seem to get the ink that SV does.

<comment><USER89> A campaign to change company HR policies can actually accomplish something. HR policies set expectations. All companies have a policy against dating within the chain of command. I bet that in the future, a lot of companies are also going to have language about not starting relationships with suppliers, customers, investors, etc. Given all of the mess with conferences, that could use a little policy, too...</comment></comment></comment>


How Lucid Motors Plans to Spin Tesla-Killing Strategy Out of Air - <AUTHOR> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-09-08/how-lucid-motors-plans-to-spin-tesla-killing-strategy-out-of-air <comment><USER2> Winning a drag race with a prototype is one thing, bringing down Tesla on its knees is a totally different story. You will need a leader par excellence such as Musk to conquer Tesla.

<comment><AUTHOR> Not really. You just need to be a car company. Volkswagen will soon be the world's biggest BEV maker. That's not surprising. Volkswagen is the world's biggest car company.

The Lucid Air is a high-end, low volume luxury car. Lucid may not ever aim at the high volume car market themselves. What they might do instead is license their drivetrain to other manufacturers.

<comment><USER2> Then how it's gonna kill Tesla?</comment></comment></comment>


Designing a Permanent Personal Identity – Urbit - <AUTHOR> https://urbit.org/blog/pki-maze/ <comment><AUTHOR> first couple of paragraphs

A public key infrastructure (PKI) is a system for binding a set of keys to a name. Sometimes a small amount of metadata is included.

Existing PKIs include PGP-style "web of trust", SSL certificates, ZeroTier, Keybase, OpenID, Mozilla Persona, and Login with Google. These take unique approaches to the problem and have achieved some degree of success, but none provide globally consistent, permanent, and completely self-owned identities. Exhaustive exploration and categorization is unfortunately out of scope for this post, so we'll just describe Urbit's approach to achieving these properties in our PKI.

In Urbit, a "name" is often called a "ship" or an "address" because we use the metadata in the PKI to make names routable. The total data is two 256-bit asymmetric keys, a cryptographic suite number (to allow changing crypto algorithms), the revision number of the key, and the name of a ship that will route for it. This sums to less than 128 bytes of data.

Each PKI trades off various properties. We chose a tripartite system so that appropriate choices can be made for different use cases. Here, we explore the various properties we chose by following a series of binary choices -- the idea maze.

</comment><comment><USER2> Got an invite? Hard spending money on an UrbitID when I cant access a demo or anything. Logging in with MetaMask does nothing.

<comment><USER3> you still could be a comet, from FAQs:

Comets are 128 bits and have no parents. They can be launched by anyone. They are temporary, disposable identities. Being disposable and essentially unlimited, they will likely not be trusted by default by others on the Urbit OS network, though you shouldn't have any problem until the network grows much larger. They have long, hard-to-memorize names, like ~racmus-mollen-fallyt- linpex-watres-sibbur-modlux-rinmex.</comment></comment>


The "Skills Gap" is a Hiring Problem - <AUTHOR> http://sciencecareers.sciencemag.org/career_magazine/previous_issues/articles/2012_10_05/caredit.a1200112

<comment><USER2> The best quote I saw in the article is this: "a Home Depot view of the hiring process, in which filling a job vacancy is seen as akin to replacing a part in a washing machine. … Like a replacement part, job requirements have very precise specifications. Job candidates must fit them perfectly or the job won't be filled."

Totally accurate - workers are treated as red boxes in spreadsheets, to be hired as necessary and "rightsized" when the project is over.</comment>


Show HN: Learn to code by being coached by an experienced developer for free - <AUTHOR> http://www.askadev.com <comment><USER3> I'm an experienced developer who would be interested in helping others. But I have no idea who it is I'm helping here, and also I'm not sure what the company's role is or how they benefit, etc. I'm happy to volunteer my time in some situations, but not if I feel others are profiting off it in some non- explicit way. Would love to see more info about who exactly you are, what your plans with this thing are, what your financial motivations are, how my contact info is to be used, etc. before I commit to offering help.

<comment><USER4> Yeah I may help out a non-profit team but nothing like this. When you work for a company teacher/student relationships are somewhat natural, its part of what the company is paying for (senior devs should mentor juniors). Even then there is the worry "this guy could take my job..." but you expect the company to reward your teaching ability and promote you. In a case like this it just seems like a way for the hobby market to steal more work from solid engineers.

I know guys who do this for $$ or for close friends knowing that they'll get something in return (help on a startup idea?) but teaching for free is odd -- tutors in other fields get paid, why should comp sci keep racing to the bottom?

I would be much more comfortable with "Code my startup project: I retain property rights, you get to learn". It's a much more even agreement. Not super exploitative given that the tutor probably could code everything they are teaching, but they let the student do it at a slower pace in exchange for some oversight (hopefully a lower time investment for the senior than coding the project themselves).

<comment><USER5> I think the standard view is that this is exploitative, and I doubt you would find many students opting in.

The closest analogous scenario: there are pretty strict _ethical_ rules against e.g. professors offering extra help to students in exchange for labor. Doing so would probably be grounds for inquiry and possible dismissal, even from a tenure position. I realize it's not exactly the same scenario, but it's probably as close as you can get where there are codified rules.

<comment><USER6> This seems to be exactly the case in psychology. Undergraduate students often assist with experiments in return for research experience on their resumes. Depending on the degree to which they were involved in a project, they may be thanked in a paper, but not listed as a coauthor.

<comment><USER5> Research is significantly different from private, for-profit business.

And those studies are _always_ IRB-approved. The IRB takes into account the conflict of interest, and will sometimes protest if you don't pay the student subjects (e.g. if the study involves a significant time commitment).

<comment><USER6> I'm not talking about students who participate in experiments as subjects. The students who are research assistants are sometimes unpaid, and might not receive course credit for RA work, but contribute code to projects for research experience. It's relevant to working for a private, for-profit business in the sense that the alternative is often doing an internship for a private company.

The IRB only monitors study participants, not research assistant work.

<comment><USER5> Ah, I misinterpreted your comment. Sorry.

> It's relevant to working for a private, for-profit business in the sense > that the alternative is often doing an internship for a private company.

I still think there's a pretty significant ethical difference between not-for- profit research and a for-profit business. Even without the student-teacher relationship, unpaid internships in CS are pretty ethically dubious and uncommon.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Good intentions, difficult scalibility for being free. Stackoverflow works because users who give answers earn reputation - something that they can include in their CVs. If there is not something that you can offer (material or inmaterial) to the ones who are going to make great your service - <USER2> willing to teach - this will be just a good intentionated initiative, badly executed. Not trying to be negative, just what I see imho.

</comment><comment><USER8> I would think the number of people who want to learn to code outnumber the people who know how to code and can teach it 10:1.

Without pricing to reduce the first number to manageable levels, how would you plan to succeed?

<comment><USER9> good point, but i guess they could differentiate between

want to _know_ how to code (9/10 individuals)

willing to _learn_ how to code (1/10 individuals)

I like the idea of some simple 'can you follow instructions' coding examples to get the basics out of the way (parenthesis, braces, int x = 1; etc). Make this test be the gate to taking up a humans time, and alter the difficulty of the test as you need to throttle.

<comment><AUTHOR> Interesting idea. We brand new and were not expecting the several hundred signups. Right now we're 1:2(students:mentors) with signups.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Rather than direct learning assistance, I'd be interested in a review service as most of the time I can get stuff to work just fine, but there is likely a better or more idiomatic way. Particularly relevant in a new dev space and unfamiliar with respected frameworks and libraries already out there.

<comment><AUTHOR> You mean like code review on stack exchange?

<comment><USER10> Possibly (I wasn't aware of that), however I'd prefer something a bit larger in scope, taking in the larger application and even the architecture.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> I like the idea, however I don't like that there's no transparency. Where's the privacy policy, what are you using my data for? Why is this free? Where's an example of how this works before I give you my info? Why should devs give up their time (as others mentioned), with examples.

</comment><comment><USER12> I know that many experienced developers are willing to forgo their free time in order to answer questions for beginners, hence, stackoverflow, but I am curious how the psychological difference of committing 30 minutes to a single person in a one-on-one experience will play out. Very cool idea if it has enough liquidity.

<comment><USER13> One of the nice things when solving things on SO or IRC is that your work is available for many others to benefit from. Also, since it's public, I can expect to be corrected if I'm wrong.

I'd see this as being the same as saying "Oh, you commit to open source projects, so you'd be happy to work on this private project for free!".

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> The pairing idea isn't new although it does seem to be very successful - there's a company called Thinkful ([http://www.thinkful.com](http://www.thinkful.com)) that does online learning by pairing a mentor who gets paid with every student who signs up and pays for a course. They apparently have a very good amount of traction with thousands of paying students. Should be interesting to see how askadev's free model compares.

<comment><USER15> I used Thinkful for a while, and the mentor who they paired me up with was top-notch. Extremely helpful guy, who helped me tremendously in the short time I was with the program.

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> I've encountered a flow error on your site. I successfully registered to "pair with a developer" and listed a few languages I don't know and would love to discuss with someone. Then, I saw the option to become a pairing developer and so I tried to sign up for that, but my email address was (obviously) already taken. Should there be an option to be both, or is each role, learner and teacher, mutually exclusive on your site?

<comment><AUTHOR> You'll be able to do both in 48hrs. Email me your address at email@example.com and I'll add you as a teacher and student.

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> My guess is that the idea is you volunteer to help people for free for 30 minutes with the hope that some of them will give up and want to hire you. Or they will let you do the "hard" part. Or maybe they will get stuck and need you to bail them out.

Anyway I think the angle is this is a way to get leads for new clients. The part I am not sure about is, how does 'askadev' get paid? I am guessing they charge the coaches a small amount ahead of time for access to the noob programmers (leads).

Or maybe its simpler. After 30 minutes you have to pay.

</comment><comment><USER18> I like this idea a lot. I really like it. But not for free.

Charge $5 for 20 mins and give $4 to the dev, take $1 for the biz.

I guarantee you there are plenty, millions of people in this world interested in a solution like that.

<comment><USER18> Oh, and make it tiered.

$5 seasoned international developer (cheap third world expert like me)

$20 seasoned american developer

$50 expert developer

$500 Patio11's godly level

Allow ratings so people can attest the expertise of the developer according to their rate.

<comment><USER19> Why you're implying that American developers are better than, let's say European developers? Or even cheap third world experts like you?

If you're expert - you're expert, country does not matter.

<comment><USER18> I am not implying they are better, just they know english better than the rest of the non-anglo world.

And great communication skills is a preferred trait in solving problems.

Btw, I can code fluently in over 10 programming languages, but my fluency in english is subpar. See? That's why I rather take a cut in the rate as long as they accept my deficiency in english.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> Sounds great, but too bad their site is broken. I tried to sign up and got the following error message, which is inaccurate:

"Oops, sorry an error occurred! Either you left the languages field empty or <email address> might be already registered. Please contact us if you require further assistance."

<comment><AUTHOR> Hmmm... first error like we've had. Please try it again and if you still can't sign email us at email@example.com.

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> I also can't sign up and get the "empty language" form error even though I put a tag in there.

<comment><AUTHOR> Can you still not sign up? Please email us with the address you use at firstname.lastname@example.com.

<comment><USER21> I could sign up to learn, but not to learn and teach apparently.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for signing up and we're adding that option shortly. Email me at firstname.lastname@example.com.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> This is similar to [http://hackhands.com/](http://hackhands.com/)

<comment><USER23> also similar to hackerhours.

[http://www.meetup.com/hackerhours/](http://www.meetup.com/hackerhours/)

hard to connect mentor to mentee efficiently for people of different levels from beginner to expert or domain specific problems.

</comment></comment><comment><USER24> I'm skeptical because it sounds too good to be true. How can this be a free service?

<comment><AUTHOR> There's plenty of developers who will happily offer their time for free. We're bring them into one space we're we can connect them with students.

</comment></comment><comment><USER25> I remember when IRC was cool

<comment><USER26> Still is, but shhhh.

</comment></comment><comment><USER27> Doesn't appear that you can actually sign up to learn, keep getting error that I have not selected a language tag

</comment><comment><USER28> Interesting idea, but how will it scale? How many people can one competent developer mentor?

</comment><comment><USER29> I got a rails error when trying to to submit for a coach.

<comment><AUTHOR> Can you still not sign up? Please email us with the address you used at firstname.lastname@example.com.

</comment></comment><comment><USER30> This is actually a real cool Idea. very nice.

</comment><comment><USER31> The team has great facial hair

</comment><comment><USER32> unable to register, keeps saying the email has been used.

<comment><AUTHOR> We were updating the site which may have been the problem. Email me at email@example.com if you still can't sign up.

</comment></comment><comment><USER33> So, codementor?

<comment><USER34> community codementor</comment></comment>


Troubleshooting IPv6 badness to certain hosts in a rack - <AUTHOR> http://rachelbythebay.com/w/2018/03/16/slowroad/ <comment><USER2> I find it sad and amusing that turning every piece of equipment off and on again would have fixed the symptoms, i.e. flushed the caches.

</comment><comment><USER3> Hello author, NetEng department here, good article, thanks!

I'm sad to say this problem affects IPv4 too and its not that uncommon when using layer 3 switches. The TCAM allocation for IPv4/6 is usually a fraction of the size allocated for MAC addresses.

Also a big annoyance of mine is that TCAM space is something few people graph by default on their NMS system. Case in point: we have Cacti as a backup NMS because it can graph >anything< that is a number. Some L3 switches have a MIB from the vendor that reports TCAM usage, others from the same vendor use a different MIB, and others from the same vendor don't expose the stats via SNMP at all and we have to scrape them from the CLI! So the vendors don't make it easy for an operator to track a limited and critical resource of a layer 3 switch. I urge everyone to graph their switches TCAM usage however they can.

<comment><USER4> > Also a big annoyance of mine is that TCAM space is something few people > graph by default on their NMS system. [...]

This (and really everything else you mention) is one thing I like about doing NetEng at FB. We collect all this info (and anything else you can think of) from every network device, try to normalize it, and then build tooling that watches for and reacts to any anomalies.

(as far as I can tell the events in the article were from 2015 and the vendor involved was thrown out in the aftermath--this was one of many bugs)

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> >> Pay attention to ssh lag, even if it seems minor

I noticed this one time while investigating a machine that was have varied upload speeds - the only one in the server room.

Ended up being the port on the switch was set on autonegotiate, and there was some issue with the firmware version on some of our NICs.

</comment><comment><USER6> I was sure this was going to be an MTU issue. I'm glad it was a bit more exciting than that.

<comment><USER7> Same! At least 10 times in my career it was an MTU issue when presented with weird latency or packet loss.

<comment><USER8> MTU or Spanning Tree, so frequently the bugbear of weird network behavior.</comment></comment></comment>


Apply HN: Awell – Help physicians better follow up with patients - <AUTHOR> Link: https://awellhealth.com
Problem: The healthcare industry is progressing towards value-based healthcare. Monitoring patient-reported outcomes (clinical surveys) is becoming increasingly important for physicians.
Almost everyone is either tracking patient outcomes manually in excel sheets or not tracking them at all. Existing companies offer prefab care programs that force the physician to change their way of working.
Solution: We provide a cloud service that enables physicians to create and automate pathways centered around patient-reported outcomes. We curate an open source library of standardized surveys and validated care pathways that allow physicians to get up and running in a fraction of the time compared to current offerings. Pathways can be easily created and changed by physicians without help from IT to make them fit as closely as possible to their current way of working.
Where: We have our first sales with the orthopedic department of a local hospital, they now measure the result of their surgeries by postoperatively following up with their patients. We are currently selling into more hospitals, including a partnership with Doctors Without Borders who have the need to follow up with their patients in developing countries.
About Us: We are 3 founders (2technical/1bizdev), all with prior experience running and growing a business. We also have 2 advisors with a background in healthcare and well-established connections for market entry. <comment><USER2> Can you say how you reduce the need for duplicated bits of information being entered in several places?

<comment><AUTHOR> We are working to integrate with EHR records through HL7/FHIR [https://www.hl7.org/fhir/](https://www.hl7.org/fhir/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> I'd like to know more about Awellhealth's partnership with MSF. It sounds exciting.

<comment><USER4> We don't want to create a solution for rich countries only; our goal is to make this accessible to caregivers on a global scale. NGOs like MSF are in need of equally qualitative solutions. We're aiming to start a pilot project end of this year.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> Video demo?

</comment><comment><USER6> Product or business

<comment><USER7> The comments you've been posting in other people's Apply HN threads are unsubstantive and dismissive. That's not ok, particularly since you've applied yourself. Please stop.</comment></comment>


The Container Ecosystem Project - <AUTHOR> https://sysdig.com/the-container-ecosystem-project/ <comment><USER2> Forgot about nomad for scheduling</comment>


Show HN: Beer Money Pro – Find beer rebates in one place (US based) - <AUTHOR> https://beermoney.pro <comment><AUTHOR> Hi everyone - first project/post here. Open to any feedback and suggestions!</comment>


Ask HN: Where can I start contributing to open source efforts? - <AUTHOR>

I have some spare time at my disposal and am looking to contribute to open source projects. I am not really sure where to start. I've browsed through the "Explore Github" trending section, but I haven't had much luck finding anything that I would be best suited to offer whatever I might be able to.<p>I largely specialize in C and JavaScript (especially node.js), but I also suffer a little from imposter syndrome and I think this would help me combat that some, and to learn and grow and improve. <comment><USER2> "I've browsed through the "Explore Github" trending section, but I haven't had much luck finding anything that I would be best suited to offer whatever I might be able to."

Why not? Not to be a jerk, but try googling "how to start contributing to open source" and maybe even read the ask hn archives because your question gets asked a lot. I'll be glad to help you after you've done this basic groundwork yourself, then describe what you have tried so far, what your hangups are and exactly what you need help with.

</comment><comment><USER3> We're always looking for contributions on Huginn! [https://github.com/cantino/huginn](https://github.com/cantino/huginn)

</comment><comment><USER4> Contribute to Ghost[1] it's a considerably new blogging node.js platform and has a fairly good bit of popularity. Having your code in the main tree, would add some points to resume.

[1] [https://github.com/TryGhost/Ghost](https://github.com/TryGhost/Ghost)

<comment><AUTHOR> Thank you. I'm absolutely going to check it out.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> Do you currently use any free or open source software you would like to improve?

<comment><USER6> I always agree with this - start by looking at the software you use.

Read the documentation. Are there any inconsistencies or poorly written docs?

Have you run into any bugs or odd behaviour when using the software? If so, reproduce it and write a test case. Once you have written a test case, work on developing a fix.

If you're really stumped, take a look at open issues that people have raised and if they don't appear to have anyone working on them, or no one has opened a pull request, start looking into the issue and try to achieve the above.

Alternatively, if the product has a feature gap that you think would be valuable, contact the maintainer and see if they agree. If they agree, then ask if you can start working on it and get the feature merged back into the core software.

<comment><AUTHOR> These are both excellent replies. I hadn't thought of that - thank you. Appreciate the input from both of you.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> You could help out on Mozilla: [https://developer.mozilla.org/en- US/docs/Introduction](https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Introduction)

<comment><AUTHOR> I hadn't thought of that - thank you for the suggestion. It's a little daunting, but I could try to start slow and small :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> There is a nice DNN (DotNetNuke) community, it's web CMS written in .Net. Lot's of JavaScript (no C though). you're welcome to join and contribute.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thank you, I'll certainly check it out. I do have some (admittedly outdated) experience in .Net as well.

<comment> Warewolf-ESB Come check out Warewolf ESB - [https://github.com/Warewolf-ESB/Warewolf- ESB](https://github.com/Warewolf-ESB/Warewolf-ESB)

It's recently become open source so now is a good time to get in early and stick your name on it. It's .Net based, so a little bit of polishing up will need to happen.

Looking forward to your contribution :)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> I would suggest [http://openhatch.org](http://openhatch.org)

</comment><comment><USER10> You can always start your own projects.

<comment><AUTHOR> I do have a very small handful of my own projects on the go, for sure. I just wish I could do a little bit more to contribute back to a community that I've drawn a lot from (knowledge and tangible products).</comment></comment>


Appdirect Buys Business Analytics Platform Leftronic (YC S10) - <AUTHOR> http://venturebeat.com/2014/11/10/appdirect-acquires-leftronic-to-deliver-fast-access-to-data-and-analytics-dashboards-for-app-marketplaces

<comment><USER2> It would be awesome if apps you purchased on the AppDirect marketplace would automatically be linked into you Leftronic account.</comment>


Effort to 'barter' a US resident to convince Turkey to ramp down Khashoggi probe - <AUTHOR> https://www.businessinsider.de/trump-fethullah-gulen-turkey-khashoggi-experts-stunned-2018-11 <comment><USER2> It is a terrible thing for a government to do, but not surprising for Trump. The message is: values don't matter as much as interests, and anyone can be bought or sold if the price is right.

Just burn the Constitution's preamble and piss on the ashes.

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> Original title was too long, HN asked me to trim it, so I cut beginning and end.

Actual title:

> Trump administration's reported effort to 'barter' a US resident to convince > Turkey to ramp down Khashoggi probe stuns foreign-policy veterans</comment>


Show HN: getdenso.com - Flipboard meets Instapaper for Video - <AUTHOR>

We were in private beta and thanks to HN we received great feedback. We're now live and would love to know what everybody thinks. <comment><AUTHOR> Clickable links:

App Store: <http://bit.ly/densoapp> Android Market: <http://bit.ly/densodroid>

and web app: <http://getdenso.com>

</comment><comment><USER2> I released something really similar(on a much smaller scale) a few days ago- <http://videodropper.ep.io>. It sends Youtube vids(just Youtube, for now) to your Dropbox folder.</comment>


Newly revealed Apple patent application looks suspiciously tablet-like - <AUTHOR> http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10366281-1.html <comment><USER2> I think a tablet from Apple is a sure thing, the only question is when. It could be next January, it could be in 2015. Apple generally does not release a product before they feel it is ready, based on their own standards.

Personally, I'd like to see an Apple tablet. Part of the reason I haven't bought a Kindle is in anticipation of this device, but my patience will only last so long...

<comment><USER3> I'd still wait for the next generation of the Kindle. The new Kindle has a lot more capability for interaction. The next one will probably have a whole lot more. I think it will take that next generation to cross the minimum threshold for me.</comment></comment>


It was a low-down, no-good godawful bailout. But it paid. - <AUTHOR> http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/it-was-a-low-down--no-good-godawful-bailout-but-it-paid/2011/07/05/gIQAbmIZ3H_print.html

<comment><USER2> _Not only did it forestall a worldwide financial meltdown..._

Yeah, great. It forestalled it. And when it comes it will be much worse. Those "too big to fail" are bigger (and thus riskier) than ever.</comment>