The Boss - First, $99. Then, Millions.  - <AUTHOR> http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/07/jobs/07boss.html?_r=2 <comment><USER2> I wonder if there are photographers that specialize in the "I'm a rich douche" headshot. Probably pays pretty well...

<comment><USER3> Actually, yes. I know of a few.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> This guy has a huge ego (check out his blog).

But taking a 30K risk when you're 16 is pretty impressive, especially considering how poor his family was.

EDIT: Not his blog, his site.

<comment><USER5> _But taking a 30K risk when you're 16 is pretty impressive, especially considering how poor his family was._

He would have been, practically and legally speaking, able to walk away from that deal totally without consequence. Remind me who was taking the risk again?

<comment><USER4> I was under the impression that he would have to pay in 90 days.

Otherwise, it's one hell of a deal.

<comment><USER6> As a minor was the agreement legally binding?

<comment><USER7> From the article it sounds like he got his brother to sign, reading slightly between the lines. So his brother would be the one on the hook, legally, if that were the case.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> 1- license tech now, pay later

2- ?

3- profit!

<comment><USER9> Honestly: 30 days? $100K revenue from a new tech venture when you're 16 working in the afternoons and _can't code_? Reaaallly?

I realize these were crazy times but .. I smell a fish.

<comment><USER10> Especially since they _were_ crazy times, but not because of crazy revenue. Those were the days of big cash outs, not big revenues.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> I enjoyed the article, but it was all over the place. It ended rather abruptly too. Props to this guy for jumping on board when he did, and getting out when he did.

<comment><USER12> yes, the article was a written form of ADHD.

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> The guy is pretty impressive for a lot of reasons. It's better read in his book/autobiography: [http://www.amazon.com/Dream-Learned-Rewards- Entrepreneurship...](http://www.amazon.com/Dream-Learned-Rewards- Entrepreneurship-Millions/dp/0230610951)

It's a great insight in his building a business against his parent's wishes (while still a minor), how he managed things, partnerships and legal stuff that went sour, what he did between his first exit and his second company (built a restaurant, invested in stocks and quit, etc.) and more. It's a good read.

<comment><USER14> I started to read the article and it sounded like a very short version of the book. I read the book (on a recommendation from HN) and took a lot from it. In particular I found the dynamic between the programmer who made the technology and himself (who did the business development) interesting. He made the programmer what I thought was a fair deal, worked his ass off selling, and things grew fast. The programmer got really pissed and created all kinds of headaches. Reading this gave me a chance to evaluate any future business relationships I might have as a programmer.

Overall the book isn't on my must read list but I still thought it was pretty good. I

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> might enjoy reading his personal site

<http://www.chahal.com/>

<comment><USER16> I'm not sure whose site is funnier, his or Eric Litman's:

<http://ericlitman.com/>

<comment><USER17> We need a ".ego" TLD.

<comment><USER18> Looking at where he came from, and where he is now, he's got plenty of reason to flaunt it. He came from the slums, and made tens of millions! (It doesn't mean it's not tacky, but he's got the street cred to say he did it (mostly) by his own skills.)

<comment><USER19> I haven't been to california in a while. I didn't realize San Jose was the slums now. Things have changed.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> I remember him from the show, "Secret Millionaire," where millionaires dress as poor people for a week, then give away money to citizens that helped them out.

While I respected him for doing the show, I remember thinking at the time that he was way too into himself. He'd wear v-neck, designer shirts even though he was supposed to look homeless.

Then he'd cry a lot, and say, "And I normally never cry, but this has gotten me so emotional.." Which means he probably cries all the time to make himself look sensitive.

And he spread out his giveaway, which made the episode boring. Where other millionaires gave $100,000 per person, he'd give multiple people, $10,000.

All around bad episode. Now I'm mad..

</comment><comment><USER21> This story has so many missing pieces it's not even worth reading.

What I want to know is who's the engineer he suckered into getting his first codebase up and running?

<comment><USER22> It basically summarized his book up in 2 minutes. It leaves out all the details and good information. It's articles like these that do entrepreneurs a dis-service:

a) You don't get the nitty gritty important details on how he really did it. You should definitely read his book to find that out btw. b) The focus is on the zeros and commas, making everyone think they can make million on teh internetz easily.

<comment><USER23> Are the rest of the details in his book? If so, it's acceptable that a ~650-word newspaper account just provide a taste/tease; it's all the medium can do.

<comment><USER24> If it's an ad for the book it's acceptable. But it's unclear exactly what it is - it doesn't even mention that there's a book. It sure isn't much of an article.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> ClickAgents! I remember them! I still have an uncashed cheque from them from 1999 or something. Somehow my personal website managed to make USD$40 or something. It would have cost me $30 to cash in Australia so I just kept it as a momento of times gone by.</comment>


Voices - <AUTHOR> http://eltresc.blogspot.com/2014/02/voices.html

<comment><USER2> Uh what? Can't tell if this is trolling or not :|</comment>


Spain train crash: scores killed, more than 130 injured - <AUTHOR> http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/25/spain-train-crash-dead

<comment><AUTHOR> The train driver claimed, under shock, to be doing 190Km/h in a 80km/h bend.

The automatic breaks, which only trigger at discrete points, didn't kick in, and that part of the line, in spite of being part of a high speed line, is not covered by ERTMS [1].

It seems that a fortune was spent on advanced trains, which get votes, but perhaps not on safety, which save lives.

[1] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Rail_Traffic_Manageme...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Rail_Traffic_Management_System)</comment>


KDE is adopting GitLab - <AUTHOR> https://about.gitlab.com/press/releases/2019-09-17-gitlab-adopted-by-KDE.html <comment><USER2> Couldn't see a link in the post but there seems to be an active GitLab instance here[1]. I've only done a few patches with their previous Phabricator flow and it was a very different experience from the usual GitHub/GitLab workflow. I'm really hoping that switching to something more people have experience with increases the number of contributors.

[1]: [https://invent.kde.org/public/](https://invent.kde.org/public/)

<comment><USER3> I tried to contribute some simple fixes to kmymoney which I want to move on from GnuCash, but the amount of work required to set everything up, from git cloning to building a dmg package was just too much. I spent like 2 hours with their proprietary build chain and still couldn't obtain a build, so I gave up.

Hopefully leveraging GitLab workflow will make things easy.

<comment><USER2> The first time I was trying to build Konsole was a bit painful too, they don't really list what the dependencies are. I ended up creating a docker container based off Fedora 30 and added the packages needed to build the app there, then I can mount my local checking into the container and run `cmake` and `make` there. Not sure how useful that would be if you're trying to build a DMG though.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> So far, I am happy only using pure git.

If you guys that use GitLab or GitHub or alike would have to switch to pure git - what is the one thing you would miss most?

<comment><USER5> There is plenty of things that can make your life easier on Github/Gitlab, especially when working in a team:

\- Issue tracker

\- Merge requests that are easy to analyze

\- Ability to put comments during a code review on specific lines of code and discuss it from there

\- Embedded wiki for a project

\- Managing different access rights to different repos

I couldn't see myself using pure git without any additional tooling for anything more that personal projects that I work on alone.

<comment><USER6> I don't understand the utility of the wiki.

Markdown is already rendered in the repo and can live next to the code. Meaning that merge requests can update both the code and documentation at the same time. And GitLab / GitHub have embedded editors that allow you to edit the markdown files using from the browser, just like a wiki.

Basically the only thing that is left is that the wiki can be edited without supervision.

<comment><USER7> I find they're rarely good, but I can see that having them live alongside code is good sometimes (as you say) but not so great when it needs to be changed independent of the code around it and you have a load 'fix markdown rendering' or 'fix typo' commits.

<comment><USER8> That feels like a failure of the tool/workflow— when you use the web UI edit button, it should put your edits on a branch for review, and make it easy to make further edits/corrections and then squash all of the piddly fixes into one big change at the end.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> With such an announcement, I always become curious about what they are moving away from.

<comment><USER5> They are currently on Phabricator if I'm not mistaken.

[https://phabricator.kde.org/](https://phabricator.kde.org/)

While it has plenty of features, it's not as user-friendly to use as Github or Gitlab. It can also be confusing at times.

I'm glad they're moving to Gitlab and I hope it'll bring some new contributors.

<comment><USER10> Are there more details on why they specifically have chosen to move? Maybe there were some discussions in some public mailing lists?

<comment><USER11> Two things:

* Development and maintenance of Phabricator has slowed down a lot.

* People were claiming phabricator was old-fashioned and confusing and hoping a merge-request based workflow would be more inviting

I'm the maintainer of one of the test projects that moved to our gitlab instance, and it's mostly fine, we're missing things in the merge request workflow, but have papered around that with labels ([https://invent.kde.org/kde/krita/merge_requests](https://invent.kde.org/kde/krita/merge_requests)), but we're still using phabricator for task management because it's so powerful for that that we cannot move that part of our workflow to gitlab yet.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> more consolidation. at least its competition for github. I could see IBM/Redhat acquiring Gitlab at this rate.

<comment><USER13> My bet is on google. There's a _lot_ of kubernetes/gcloud integration going on with gitlab.

<comment><USER14> That would be a major reason to abandon the Gitlab ship. Google is notorious for killing off projects.

Also, Google had a Gitlab/Github-style page until a few years ago, called Google Code. Obviously, they weren't interested on that venue anymore.

<comment><USER15> Google only kills unsuccessful projects. Gitlab is an obvious successful project.

<comment><USER16> Google Reader was clearly successful.

<comment><USER17> Was it? I've never met or heard of anyone using it except on Hacker News

I also doubt it made any revenue

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> Drupal and KDE has similarities in the width of contributors. Both ended up with gitlab. Hm :)

<comment><USER19> GNOME as well.

</comment></comment><comment><USER20> Congratulations to GitLab and KDE, I think it will work out well for both. GNOME and Freedesktop are both already on their own instances and it's been pretty good.

<comment><USER21> Thank you! It has been awesome to see GNOME [https://gitlab.gnome.org/explore/](https://gitlab.gnome.org/explore/) Freedesktop [https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/explore/](https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/explore/) and Debian [https://salsa.debian.org/public](https://salsa.debian.org/public) embrace GitLab and we hope KDE will have a smooth experience.

We're also hoping to see them contribute back features to GitLab they need for complex projects, and I think we've already seen a few.

<comment><USER22> Another open source project on GitLab is Haskell ([https://www.haskell.org/ghc/](https://www.haskell.org/ghc/)).

Also, this blog was published when Freedesktop announced their move to GitLab (incl. CI): [https://www.fooishbar.org/blog/gitlab-fdo- introduction/](https://www.fooishbar.org/blog/gitlab-fdo-introduction/)

We actually have a panel with representatives from Freedesktop, GNOME, and KDE at GitLab Commit in London ([https://about.gitlab.com/events/commit/#schedule)in](https://about.gitlab.com/events/commit/#schedule\)in) a few weeks discussing their experience with GitLab.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> How do people self-hosting gitlab CE for the open-for-all projects fix the spam problem?

<comment><USER24> On a project I contribute to, we ask people to register on our main website, which has a pretty good anti-spam. We do that in part to get to know our contributors more and better engage (after all, we develop a FOSS CRM). Gitlab uses that authentication source as an LDAP server.

So far in the past 2 years, we have had only 1 spam merge-request.

</comment></comment><comment><USER25> It's good to see Gitlab staying strong, I worry sometimes that if Github has no competition it might turn into a new Sourceforge (which to be fair has cleaned-up its act in the last several years, but only after years of earning enormous amounts of bad will)

Granted with Microsoft ownership there's less chance of Github becoming cash desperate, but it seems possible if somewhere down the line Microsoft loses active interest and goes on life-support, and Microsoft decides that the property is no longer worth protecting from the arbitrary whims and corporate commercial strategies internally.

</comment><comment><USER26> I just hope GitLab won't accidentally delete their entire server + codebases ever again</comment>


Ne: the nice editor - <AUTHOR> http://ne.di.unimi.it/ <comment><USER3> I recommend Jed's editor for a very friendly editor as well. I'm a console- menu guy and like the EDIT.COM feel :)

Plus it's got some Emacs (s-lang) to it although I never use it.

Also, you can't argue with 8bit clean.

It's in the repos.

Homepage: [http://www.jedsoft.org/jed/features.html](http://www.jedsoft.org/jed/features.html)

On a sidenote. I am addicted to Jedsoft's console pager "most". Also in the repos. With colour, search and really the whole nine yards. It's the most. So much more than more and even more than less!. Pipe to |most and see for yourself!

<comment><AUTHOR> Yes, most is awesome. I recommend that too.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> FYI the package 'ne' on Ubuntu does exist.

The question is: why didn't it replace the goddamn Nano as a default editor long ago? This editor should be known more widely.

<comment><USER5> In order to avoid fading completely into irrelevance, I've been improving JOE to hopefully better compete with Nano/Pico. People like nano because there is no learning effort at all. I can't argue with that- if you're a student trying to write a first-year program, you don't want to waste time being hindered by the editor.

JOE is already pretty simple (it says hit ^K H for help on the screen always, and if you hit it you get the basic commands), but even then I find that a top google search for JOE is "How do you save and exit?" People can't seem to see the "Hit ^K H for help" in the top-right corner. Also this message annoys power users since it's a waste of valuable status line real estate.

So I'm trying this for JOE 4.2: the pop-up copyright notice is replace with one-line of help:

       JOE 4.2 ** Use Ctrl-K X to save/exit, Ctrl-C to abort, or Ctrl-K H for help **

This shows up on the bottom line which I think is more noticeable.

ne and emacs both show this kind of help when you first start the editor. But in both cases, you have to do a lot of reading (emacs shows too much, and in ne the help is buried in the middle of a long copyright notice).

Ne is pretty nice otherwise, it almost has the Windows cua key bindings and includes column block operations. Of course JOE is better :-)

<comment><USER6> _" but even then I find that a top google search for JOE is "How do you save and exit?" People can't seem to see the "Hit ^K H for help" in the top-right corner"_

I would see that as a very strong hint that the time when Wordstar keybindings made sense in an editor with "no learning curve at all" has passed.

I think you should very seriously consider either having control-S for save or dropping the idea to compete with editors without a learning curve. If you want to keep aiming at the low learning curve, Google tells me that key bindings are highly configurable, so what's wrong with shipping with ones beginning users will be familiar with?

If you want to keep Wordstar bindings by default, I think your new message can be improved.

I fear that people who read _" Use Ctrl-K X to save/exit"_ may think that Ctrl-K X will give them _the option to save changes_ , and then exit. That can put them up for a huge disappointment the first time they want to exit without saving.

IMO, the use of "abort" for "exit without saving" doesn't help there, either. For me, "abort" signals abnormal termination, but there is nothing wrong with exiting without saving.

<comment><USER5> What would you suggest that fits in 80 columns?

<comment><USER6> I doubt you can get any significant improvement that way, but unless I am miscounting

      Save file and Exit=Ctrl-K X    Exit Without Saving=Ctrl-C    Help=Ctrl-K H

fits in that space. I doubt it will help much because people will have forgotten the key combinations seconds after typing the first character, and even if they do remember them, they will not become as engrained as the keystrokes they know work in other programs.

I am pessimistic because I see three problems with Control-K X for 'normal' users:

\- they aren't used to the tiny mode that Control-X introduces (it wouldn't even surprise me if interviewing a few 'normal users' would show that they do not know what "Ctrl-K X" means)

\- most other applications separate the 'save' command from the 'exit' command (web and phone apps are exceptions, but they don't use explicit save at all)

\- it's not control-S (unfair? Maybe, but I would call it realistic)

I doubt reminding them "hey, this program is different" at startup will help much for that.

Disclaimer: I'm not a professional in this field and I am wildly guessing at the target audience for a simple text editor.

<comment><USER5> I do have a single exit command, so I'm taking your advice. New users only have to remember two commands:

      Joe's Own Editor 4.1 (utf-8) ** Type Ctrl-K Q to exit or Ctrl-K H for help **

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment> david-given Alas, for a lot of people, ne will forever be the Norton Editor.

[http://www.danielsays.com/ss-gallery-dos-the-norton- editor-1...](http://www.danielsays.com/ss-gallery-dos-the-norton- editor-13c.html)

I have written so, so much code in this.

<comment><USER7> Was it the same as the F4 (edit) in norton commander?

<comment><USER3> Slightly trimmed version.

You have a clone of it bundled with Midnight Commander. "mcedit"

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Sebastiano Vigna never ceases to amaze me

<comment><USER3> What else has he been involved in?

<comment><USER9> A Java framework, 'fastutil', seems to be his most popular.

[https://github.com/vigna?tab=repositories](https://github.com/vigna?tab=repositories)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> This is all very nice... but real programmers use ed [http://www.gnu.org/fun/jokes/ed-msg.html](http://www.gnu.org/fun/jokes/ed- msg.html)

</comment><comment><USER11> so something like Nano but with better shortcut keys.

<comment><USER12> The slackbuild.org script for Slackware 14.1 compiles in about 30 seconds on my ancient Thinkpad. Looks OK. You have to set the backspace key to generate a Ctrl-H in the Xfce-terminal preferences (this is mentioned in the info page in relation to Mac OS).

Nano gets the job done for tweaking Web pages on ssh &c. It does have some fans...

[https://rachelbythebay.com/w/2011/09/24/editor/](https://rachelbythebay.com/w/2011/09/24/editor/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> I just want a text editor with good intelligent c++: code completion, call tree generation, jump to declaration/definition and syntax highlighting - <USER2> works on the command line so I can use it over ssh.

<comment><USER14> A good intelligent code editing would either require a good pile of hacks or a completely different approach.

Common "text code editors" don't understand a thing about the code they edit. They're just supplemented with ton of hacks that produce meaningful result in acceptably high number of cases (like regex-based highlighters) but still don't have "real" intelligence towards the content of their buffers.

And with ever-growing number of hacks the thing's unlikely to be small or low on dependencies. You'll end up with another emacs/vim/etc - a fairly small cores, and then a scripting or external tool execution support to do highlighting, parsing, context-aware searching, refactoring etc etc to make them useful for code editing. (And then why bother when we have emacs and vim already?)

<comment><USER13> >And with ever-growing number of hacks the thing's unlikely to be small or low on dependencies. You'll end up with another emacs/vim/etc

That's acceptable as long as it _works_.

<comment><USER14> Don't Emacs or VIM already do?

And, well, if they don't work, it's certainly easier to patch their hacks or pile even more hacks, rather than trying to redo everything from a clean slate.

<comment><USER13> No and I'm not suggesting they reinvent the wheel either. I also don't care if it's a "common text editor" either. It can be a full blown IDE for all I care. I just want it to work correctly and in the command line so I can use it over ssh.

<comment><USER15> Appears to me what you really want is a full-featured IDE working in the terminal. I guess the market for that would be too small.

<comment><USER13> What I really want is a way to debug, compile, examine and code C++ using a build server for all the cpu heavy tasks.

<comment><USER15> I think you could use a web IDE for that, instead of a terminal IDE. There are already several web IDE AFAIK.

<comment><USER16> Which web IDE would you recommend?

<comment><USER15> I honestly can't recommend any, I just tried a couple of them but (at least for now) prefer to use a traditional IDE (RubyMine).

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> I wonder if there are terminal based IDEs that are specifically made to edit and work on code, perhaps aware of ASTs and working on them, instead of being text editors with language plugins.

</comment><comment><USER18> Installed this from the AUR and tried it. Sadly I can't backspace, since it doesn't support using ^? for backspace, only ^H.

<comment><USER19> What layout uses ^? for backspace? The wikipedia[w] page doesn't appear to be aware of it, and a few simple searches turned up nothing...

I suppose you mean, "I can't backspace with my backspace key" \-- as you probably can backspace fine with ^h (ctrl+h)?

[w] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backspace](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backspace)</comment></comment>


Tesla car on fire [video] - <AUTHOR> https://www.youtube.com/embed/q0kjI08n4fg

<comment><USER2> As a shareholder, all I can say - this sucks. Need more detail about this incident.

</comment><comment><USER3> Is there some background to this?</comment>


Show HN: JSON Diff – Online JSON Diff Finder - <AUTHOR> http://json-diff.com <comment><AUTHOR> I often found myself needing a good visual tool for diffing JSON. Most other tools provided the diff in a separate pane in the UI. This tool highlights the diffs inline.

</comment><comment><USER2> Feature request: show the lines where there is an invalid json parse error.

Right now I'm just getting the "Invalid JSON" in the top-right corner.

EDIT: This one might be a bit of a stretch, but would it be possible to be mongodb friendly? (even though it's not technically json)

Really nice otherwise, good job.</comment>


Challenges of Getting to Mars [video] - <AUTHOR> http://www.moziy.com/explore/video?v=407

<comment><USER2> Direct YouTube link: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ki_Af_o9Q9s></comment>


CD shattering at 170,000 frames per second – The Slow Mo Guys - <AUTHOR> https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=193&v=zs7x1Hu29Wc

<comment><USER2> Wow - very cool :)</comment>


Boston Battle for Talent – Performable to Offer $12k Referral Bonus - <AUTHOR> http://bostinnovation.com/2011/04/19/a-second-shot-heard-round-the-dev-community-performable-to-offer-12k-talent-referral/ <comment><USER2> I know there are many great devs in the world, but sometimes I think these bullet points are a little too narrow. Full stack from CSS to server admin? An extrovert on social media? Also has time to keep up with 20 projects on GitHub?

I know these people exist but most of them devote a significant share of their time (work and free) to the craft to be able to say they qualify for these points. Furthermore, they balance between these activities such that they are learning new tech constantly only to be applying them to someone else's project and then hyping it up on Twitter.

Given the rare combination of talent, passion, and generosity these people engender, 12k is a joke. It's more than a joke, it's a disgrace. I'm paying 12k for a black belt, but I'm paying a million for the guy who trained from an early age in a monastery and has a lifelong dedication to his art.

I don't know, I think all the superlatives I'm seeing in job posts recently is making me a little nuts (to be fair, this one isn't the worst by a long shot). How about "generalist experience in n-tier web apps, likes to learn new things, and is active in the development community." Maybe employers think we're all too vain for such a nonchalant statement to appeal to us.

<comment><USER3> +1 "generalist experience in n-tier web apps, likes to learn new things, and is active in the development community".

We're a small (5) dev team at the moment and most of us fit your profile. My big requirement is that you are scrappy and can complete a task without requirement too much help from everyone else.

Let me know if that makes the requirements a bit clearer.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> The place I worked at last year in Boston's Back Bay (finance) upped their internal referral bonus from $5,000 to $10,000.

There's been a bit of a tug-of-war between financial companies and Kendall/Central/Harvard Square for a while now. The difference between the two camps is Cambridge is more open about it, while Boston (particularly finance) is more hush-hush about it and still stays very defensive in salary negotiations.

Large referrals aren't new to Cambridge though. I'm old enough to remember the Honda S2000s and the Ferrari 355 Ars Digita offered employees for repeat referrals.

</comment><comment><USER5> I like how the article says you can refer yourself and get the money, and the author goes on to say, hey hit me up and ill refer you and we split the money.... Really, why would I do that honestly; if I am qualified for the position?

</comment><comment><USER6> Slightly off-topic, but not much: why don't smaller companies look into H1Bs? Despite me running a job-search site and being reasonably informed about the market, I can't do any dog-fooding. I can't apply for any of the listings unless it is some really big company.

Quite often, the reason I'm given is something along the lines of "the company is not big enough to bear the costs of sponsoring a H1B". I'm almost sure that $12k would be enough to cover all legal expenses of going through the visa sponsoring process, and it would benefit everyone in the battle for talent.

<comment><USER7> > I'm almost sure that $12k would be enough to cover all legal expenses of > going through the visa sponsoring process, and it would benefit everyone in > the battle for talent.

Money isn't the only cost associated with sponsoring an H1B - there's a time component as well. Since they're trying to spend money to save time....

<comment><USER6> You're right, but there is a "premium-processing fee", it costs about $1000.00 and it brings down the approval process time down to 2-4 weeks from up to 6 months.

<comment><USER7> I was unclear. I wasn't referring to the amount of time to get approval, but the amount of time that they'll have to spend doing an H1-B. Yes, they can hire someone to do (some of) that, but "now they have two problems".

That said, adding 2-4 weeks to the hire cycle is another cost.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> When companies use recruiters, they will typically pay a fee equal to 15% to 25% of the employee's first year salary. I'm sure HubSpot uses recruiters, and is used to paying $12k plus for top technical talent. The only difference here is that they are allowing non-professional recruiters to collect a fee for referring a candidate.

</comment><comment><USER9> Is it relevant that third-party recruiting firm fee's are typically 20%, upwards of 30% for "top talent" of the negotiated base salary? 25% is a norm or more "hard science" mechanical / engineering (non CS), while 30% is more of a norm towards confidential financial firms.

</comment><comment><USER10> "An individual who is active in github, quora, twitter and open source projects."

call me old fashioned but what happened to a portfolio. ever since i saw john resig's tweet about taking a gh log over a resume it seems every other job coming out now wants you spending 95% participating in the community and the other 5% working on your craft. how many uber talented engineers out there are actually spending that much time doing all of this active participation and still finding enough time to do their actual work. unless your job _is_ actively participating in the community i don't think its many that can juggle all these requirements and be productive.

</comment><comment><USER11> How much do they pay? Why is it war for talent rather than auction for talent? If someone wants to offer their developers $1 million/yr, I doubt they will have trouble finding talent. They will probably get some free PR too. The whole business of model of many tech companies is based upon manipulating developers into working super-cheap. Due to their personalities, developers are often pretty easy to manipulate.

<comment><USER3> My experience has always been that in fact it's an auction. Top engineers will always have multiple offers and if you really want them you'll have to pay. Of course, we all have limits based on our startup stage and funding and what's the return that developer brings to your company.

However, many times is not about the money but about the environment and challenges you can provide to smart people that makes a company more attractive vs higher salary.

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> >>A "full-stack programmer" who has created non-trivial applications.

Pardon my ignorance but:

What is a full-stack programmer?

How does one try to get to the levels of a full-stack programmer?

What exactly is a a non-trivial application? Examples?

How does one get started on these non-trivial applications?

<comment><USER3> This is what I mean by a full-stack programmer.

[http://www.facebook.com/notes/facebook-engineering/the- full-...](http://www.facebook.com/notes/facebook-engineering/the-full-stack- part-i/461505383919)

At Performable, full-stack means being capable to build atop Hadoop, HBase, Python/Tornado and HTML/SASS/CoffeeScript.

Of course, you don't have to be the best at either end of the spectrum, but being able to visualize your feature through every layer would be great.

<comment><USER12> Thanks. That is a nice article.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> I'm sorry, but this is just stupid. They would be much better off working with (good) recruiters. $12K is in the ballpark of what good recruiters charge anyway...

<comment><USER3> We're doing both. But after working with three or more recruiters, I can't sit around and wait for them to find the right candidates.

Besides, recruiters are like realtors, there's not much incentive in finding the best candidate for you and their pay is usually even more than $12K for experienced candidates FYI.</comment></comment>


By 2030, 56 countries will have more people aged 65+ than children under 15 - <AUTHOR> http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-08-11/more-old-than-young-a-population-plague-spreads-around-the-globe <comment><USER3> When I read things like this, I can't help but feel like we're approaching The Behavioral Sink. When I first read about John B. Calhoun's work, I thought it was interesting but sort of moved on. For some reason, it stuck in my mind though, and it rises to the surface often when I read news about the world.

For those who don't know, Calhoun's research was around the impact of population growth. He found that mice in a closed environment, among other behaviors, became anti-social, violent, strangely obsessed with grooming and stopped breeding once the population reached a certain size, even disregarding the wellbeing of the young that are born.

Obviously we're not in a situation as bad as all that, but it's an interesting light to view today's world in.

<comment><USER4> The mice utopia experiment.. There are a surprising amount of small parallels between it and some of our recent cultural phenomenon.

Interesting thought.

<comment><USER5> Would you mind elaborating? My great grandmother used to laugh at the moral majority's antics---she said that people have been complaining about the moral degeneration of society since she was a small child---in the 1890s.

<comment><USER4> "Newer generations born in the now dysfunctional mouse utopia became withdrawn, spending their days grooming obsessively and dedicating their time solely to eating , drinking and sleeping. This generation, for all the emphasis they placed on grooming, would not reproduce. Moreover, these mice were noted to be unintelligent compared to previous generations."

Intelligence has surely risen in our population, obesity is becoming a real problem in successful populations. The "selfie" self absorbed cultural shift we're seeing at the moment is another parallel.

Whilst we're not cannibalising each other or becoming any more aggressive than we have been in the past (although we are still plenty aggressive), I think we are starting to see some of symptoms for lack of a better term that are highlighted above to some degree or another.

Edit - perhaps there are also similarities between the hikikomori NEET lifestyle that's arisen in Japan as well.

This is purely an opinion without any statistics to back it up though, I'd be interested to hear counter arguments.

<comment><USER6> Getting obese seems like the opposite of excessive grooming. Most of the tendencies you're talking about are not happening in the overpopulated areas. The selfie thing is hugely overblown, a lot of people may be self-absorbed, but what says that's new, and a lot of people are also depressed.

The mice thing is not a utopia, it's an extremely artificial situation that only fits a very banal and shallow definition of "utopia". And that is not and probably never will be a situation humans will find themselves in since it requires a third party to engineer. None of us right now are in a closed environment, and we're definitely not in a no scarcity situation, since people are still worried about holding a job. The NEET thing is, too, related to the whole job thing.

In what way are these situations at all related?

<comment><USER4> I think you're reading into the term "utopia" too much. The experiment was a utopia of the body perhaps where there are no biological needs that aren't satisfied with no external forces of nature acting to reduce population aside from the size of the habitat that the rats lived in - as you mention we do not live in a utopia as people do grow hungry and are lacking jobs.

It also was not a utopia because the rats clearly where not happy.

I'd disagree and say that in overpopulated areas there is a higher rate of depression, obesity and psychological problems than in places with lower populations - but I haven't provided numbers there and neither have you - <USER2> both of our arguments are anecdotal.

As an aside I was more referencing the hikikomori phenomenon when I mentioned NEET's - whilst they are NEET, they are extreme cases of social withdrawl and other mental problems.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hikikomori](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hikikomori)

<comment><USER7> > I'd disagree and say that in overpopulated areas there is a higher rate of > depression, obesity and psychological problems than in places with lower > populations

What scope and scale are you looking at though? Because within first world countries such as the USA, psychological problems doesn't correlate much and obesity correlates negatively with population density. The problems you mention correlate much more with social and economic opportunities (or lack thereof) than population density itself.

[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3481194/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3481194/)

<comment><USER4> Thanks very much for the paper, I'm always more than happy to be proved wrong, I'll have a read.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Surely this is a good thing? We (as a species) have been growing exponentially in an unsustainable manner. It'll be tough as we transition into looking after more elderly with less of a young population to support them - but in the long run it's for the best.

<comment><USER8> One huge downside would be that older people tend to skew to the more conservative end of the political spectrum, and can end up drowning out the voices of the young.

See the age breakdown of the recent Brexit vote for one example. I also remember with the Irish referendum on gay marriage in 2015, there was much worry that the older generations would swing the overall vote to "No", despite the legislation having no impact on them.

Worth thinking about: How many Brexit "Leave" voters have simply died of old age in the two months between then and now?

<comment><USER9> > _One huge downside would be that older people tend to skew to the more > conservative end of the political spectrum_

Only a downside if you (a) disagree with them; (b) for whatever reason, feel they are not entitled to their beliefs

> _and can end up drowning out the voices of the young._

Funny how when your opinions are the majority it's democracy, and when they're not it's "voices being drowned out."

> _Worth thinking about: How many Brexit "Leave" voters have simply died of > old age in the two months between then and now?_

It's not.

<comment><USER10> You are correct if everyone gets to vote. If the elderly with little to do all day have an easier time getting to the polls than the working class single mom supporting them, then you have a problem. I say make election day a national holiday _. The AARP likely disagrees.

_ You don't even have to do that, I'd make July 4th election day in the states for example.

<comment><USER11> While I don't particularly like the AARP, they haven't said anything against making voting day a national holiday. And with voting by mail it's totally unnecessary anyway. In CA now even postage is free so there are zero obstacles preventing the working class from voting.

<comment><USER12> Except there are issues with it. For example, I ordered my ballot and never received it. Fortunately I work somewhere with a flexible enough schedule that I could vote in person, but it isn't reliable enough for me.

There is really no compelling argument I can think of for why there shouldn't be a federal holiday to vote, unless you are arguing about lost productivity as a business owner or policy changes from more people of different demographics voting. Neither are compelling arguments.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Whenever I read things like this. I am reminded of Hans Rosling's "Global population growth, box by box"[1].

The only question is, how to transition to a "steady state economy"[2][3] or "non growth economies", when population really reaches some kind of equilibrium. As growth is the only concept humans for the last tens of thousands of years knew, this transition, while absolutely necessary, will be hard and hurt lots of people I believe.

[1]: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTznEIZRkLg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTznEIZRkLg) [2]: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steady- state_economy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steady-state_economy) [3]: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutrality_of_money](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutrality_of_money)

<comment><USER14> A steady state economy will never, ever happen. We'll sooner extinguish our planet. The reason is simple: technological progress is a national security matter. It can't be stopped. Even coordinated treatise would be subverted. With technological progress more and more output for the same amount of input is possible.

Now you could argue for a steady state population. Or at least for a period of time where we have a steady state population (before starships are prevalent) and I could start to see that happening, but as long as there is intelligence and peace the economy will continue to grow.

<comment><USER15> Knowledge will most likely grow, but with a steady population the only true GDP growth can come from moving people out of poverty and into the higher income brackets. Once everyone is there, what real growth is there?

<comment><USER16> Even higher income brackets?

I don't know what you mean by "true" GDP growth. It feels like you're making some non-standard distinction but not explaining it.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> The only problem is probably the many funding models that assume otherwise, therefore rely on an uneven age distribution with a bigger share of younger participants (like many western pension funds, etc.)

While I can imagine that it's not easy to redesign pension funds, but keeping the current systems at all costs is probably ideological by definition.

</comment><comment><USER18> It's humanity correcting the growth rate - it's been well overdue, it's just going to be tough for a little while but we'll manage. If anything, robots could make this a lot better for us. People are relatively content in the West and the rise in living costs are putting people off kids.

<comment><USER19> So far we have robots for doing the vacuuming. I don't see why everyone is so optimistic that there things are just around the corner.

<comment><USER20> I think our robots that do manufacturing or driving are more sophisticated than the ones that vacuum.

AI has hit a boom and is producing a lot of potentially useful achievements (that it hadn't before). It wouldn't surprise me if they become more prevelant.

Of course, we still need the resources to build them...

<comment><USER18> Exactly, people take for granted the AI that drives Siri and Google talk - these are amazing advances. It's enabled family members who are dislexic to completely transform their ability to engage in technology and the world.

Of course driverless cars are s massive feat and I see more robots entering the house soon in less subtle ways.

<comment><USER19> I am curios, a lot of people talk about Siri on here, yet I have never seen anyone use it in real life (I see plenty of iPhones). Does it only work well with American style English (I am Scottish and am pretty sure the accent would cause it problems).

<comment><USER18> Not sure, a lot of my family is London-ish area English and it works well for them.

I think the detection algorithm will look past accent and probably do some deep-learning based technique. Google are probably smart enough to tailor the voice recognition algorithms geographically - if you spend time in Scotland it will probably use the Scottish trained net to detect what you want.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> But will 65 always be a meaningful cut-off for "old" \- if it even is today? What would the balance look like if you made the cut-off 75, or 80, or 90?

Obviously current pension and retirement policy defines "old" at various ages in the 50s or 60s, and 65 is a reasonable cut-off in light of current laws. But the trend is generally longer lives and later retirements.

I would be willing to bet that the 65-year-olds of the 2030s will be much less of a "burden" on society than, say, the 65-year-olds of the 1930s were.

<comment><USER22> 65+ across the board is most definitely a burden -- those entering old age between now and 2030 are universally poor, underemployed, and in poor health, and there is no sign of it slowing down or getting better. They will rely on the young more than ever.

That said, 65 isn't a hard number. Many exit regular employment permanently at 50, for example.

A century ago and now are incomparable for a variety of reasons, one of them being a burgeoning middle class. The birth of a middle class brings incalculable improvements but many nations haven't ever adapted to that massive middle class approaching old age, but thankfully this will be staggered so we can respond to it gradually.

<comment><USER21> > those entering old age between now and 2030 are universally poor, > underemployed, and in poor health, and there is no sign of it slowing down > or getting better. They will rely on the young more than ever.

Could you elaborate on this? My impression is the exact opposite - that people are generally healthier and/or living longer than they have previously. Obviously things vary tremendously from country to country - and obesity in the US complicates the picture - but is general health and life expectancy around the world going down?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> > _While the prospect of longer lives is a good thing, problems arise when a > shrinking work force cannot foot the pension bill._

Not true.

In EU the retirement age is moving as population gets older. By 2040 retirement age could be around 75 years.

<comment><USER24> Isn't it great?

Work almost all your life.

No more grandparents taking care of children while parents work, decreasing the number of families that might have children.

Less open positions for young people.

<comment><USER25> Yeah, this sounds like a great recipe for a stable economic system and orderly transition to steadier demographics over the next 20-50 years.

Edit: An informative graph for the bleak jobs picture for young people this shift is creating in the US: [http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/im...](http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2016/07/03/job%20additions%20total%20by%20age_0.jpg)

<comment><USER15> Zerohedge is not a reliable data source IMHO

<comment><USER25> It's straight from BLS data, throw it into something and graph it yourself if you want [http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t09.htm](http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t09.htm)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> >a shrinking work force cannot foot the pension bill [...]

>the political choices are unsavory — increase taxes or cut benefits

Those are not solutions, those would both exacerbate the problems. A shrinking workforce, which has seen wages stagnating for decades while cost of living continues to increase, and which is increasingly being automated out resulting in high unemployment, cannot pay more taxes. That would result in even more working people needing benefits (or dropping out of the workforce because it's a net loss to work) and lower tax revenues. Cutting benefits would, of course, directly increase the problems that occur when there already aren't enough benefits to go around. And both of those 'solutions' would cause things to get increasingly worse as the population ages and automation continues.

A possible solution would be increasing wages so that the workers, though fewer in number, could pay more taxes and support more retirees and benefits. Another would be decreasing the workweek, so that more people would have to be hired, resulting in lower unemployment and more people paying taxes instead of living on benefits. Both of those are also scalable, as the population ages and automation increases, wages can be increased and hours decreased to compensate. As a side benefit, workers with higher wages and more free time, in addition to paying more taxes, could buy more, stimulating the economy, resulting in even more tax revenues.

</comment><comment><USER27> Any problem caused by an aging population cannot be a long-term problem.

<comment><USER28> Unless it triggers an event that has lasting consequences beyond their longevity.

</comment></comment><comment><USER29> Title was changed to "More Old Than Young: A Demographic Shock Sweeps the Globe". Guess someone realized that calling old people a plague wasn't the best choice of words.

</comment><comment><USER30> "While the prospect of longer lives is a good thing, problems arise when a shrinking work force cannot foot the pension bill."

He underestimates the power of automation and the inevitable rise of a basic universal income.

<comment><USER31> He didn't say we can't do it, but that there are problems. Automation will help, but it doesn't solve all of the problems associated.

<comment><USER30> "shrinking work force" he's not taking automation into account. Robots and algorithm do indeed do work and do provide monetary value.

<comment><USER31> > Robots and algorithm do indeed do work and do provide monetary value.

I'm not sure where anyone said otherwise. I'm just saying that automation doesn't solve all of the problems here.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER32> can't these countries just import young people from India where more than 50% of its population below the age of 25 and more than 65% below the age of 35.

</comment><comment><USER33> As societies, we've chosen to pay for old people -- not for kids.

You get what you pay for.

</comment><comment><USER34> If we can fix health problems this is no longer a problem. (Just saying). At that point it's just a population issue.</comment>


Ask HN: What happened to AwesomeHighlighter.com? - <AUTHOR>

Are they done or just having technical difficulties? <comment><USER2> Looks like they are having database errors. Also looks like that page is based off of CodeIgniter, unless there is another framework that has similar database error pages. Someone know what they built the site in?

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> <http://www.awesomehighlighter.com/></comment>


Facebook has become the third largest nation - <AUTHOR> http://www.economist.com/node/16660401?story_id=16660401&fsrc=rss

<comment><USER2> That's not true. I'm pretty sure it would be topped by the nations of: 1) People that eat rice, 2) Those living below 1000ft altitude, and 3) People whose favorite color is either red or blue.

Oh, wait, those are all random collections of people that have nothing to do with "nations". My bad.

Also, it claims Facebook in 3rd at 500 million, US in 4th at 310 million; so it would have jumped into 3rd quite a while ago, making the country comparison even less relevent as a news claim. Is it really that hard just to say that Facebook now has 500 million users and leave it at that without making up a silly headline and graphic?

<comment><USER3> > Oh, wait, those are all random collections of people that have nothing to do > with "nations". My bad.

""[It] is a device that allows people to get together and control their own destiny, much like our nation-state," says David Post, a law professor at Temple University, Philadelphia."

<comment><USER4> _""[It] is a device that allows people to get together and control their own destiny, much like our nation-state," says David Post, a law professor at Temple University, Philadelphia."_

I am _so_ happy I didn't have any professors so dense as to think that "coming together" on a social networking site had anything to do with the kind of "controlling one's destiny" that a nation-state provides.

I'm hoping the guy was seriously misquoted.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> "[It] is a device that allows people to get together and control their own destiny..."

Seeing that my high school classmates have gotten fatter helps me control my own destiny how?

<comment><USER6> By making it easier to convince yourself to work out regularly.

<comment><USER5> Or it helps me justify not working out because everyone else got fat too.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> I shudder at the thought of a nation made up of Facebook users. It would be like a nation of People subscribers, except they'd also play inane grinding games...

<comment><USER8> I feel like there's some sort of incredible potential here, if only we could get grinding games to correspond to some real world activity...

<comment><USER9> Sounds like the book MetaGame.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> One of the largest fascist nations too? It is a corporation and a dictatorship of sorts isn't it?

<comment><USER11> > It is a corporation and a dictatorship of sorts isn't it?

Facebook is a corporation, but it lacks the ability to coerce anyone. Instead, it depends on their voluntary acts, which they're free to stop at any time.

Dictatorships, heck govts, don't work that way.

<comment><USER12> Well, most liberal governments, you're free to leave and go somewhere else at any time. You can even cancel your citizenship if you want.

<comment><USER4> ...if somewhere else will take you in. This can be non-trivial, especially if you are planning on working for a living.

<comment><USER12> There's always someplace you could move and pull it off. It just might not be nice.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> My 70 year old father has a facebook account and doesn't have the slighest clue what do with it, consequently it goes unused.

They may 500 million accounts but they only get 150 million or less users per month. Of that, I bet 50 million of them make up the lion's share of the pageviews. 5 million are complete facebook nutters playing farmville and mobwars 24/7.

If Facebook is a nation of 500 million then the US is a nation of billions, if you count all the tourists and business types flying in/out.

<comment><USER14> To answer your speculations: no, no, no and no. Here is the first result from Google for "facebook statistics".

<http://www.facebook.com/press/info.php?statistics>

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> Sure, Facebook is the 3rd largest nation, but how many of those accounts are multiples belonging to the same person?

</comment><comment><USER16> The day Facebook monopolizes the use of force on its members? That's the day it becomes an nation.

It is nowhere near, no matter how many people join.</comment>


Show HN: Weekend project - onepic.me - <AUTHOR>

I had this domain for some time and I never got around to make a project for it. This last weekend I finally managed to find a few hours to work on it and I've just finished putting the code into production.
The site lets you choose some pictures from your Facebook photos and then it will let other users vote on them, as long as they know your URL. This way you can find your best picture.
Some random facts the HN crowd will appreciate:
- Technologies: Tornado, mongodb and memcache, served with nginx
- The site took around 5 hours to design and write (including time spent in Photoshop and shopping around for stock photos)
- 1055 lines of code, including Python and Javascript
http://onepic.me <comment><USER2> Interesting. People could use it to choose their profile pictures.

But it doesn't work: I get 404: Not Found after authorizing from Facebook.

<comment><AUTHOR> Just fixed the error. It was because the dot in your Facebook username (I didn't know it was an allowed character).

<comment><USER2> Thanks.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> Reminds me of <http://www.okcupid.com/mybestface>

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> Clickable link: <http://onepic.me></comment>


Interview with Erik Spiekermann: Why are typefaces legally defined as software? - <AUTHOR> http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0ASRqPTjuQthTZGQ4YjVtOXJfNGdxbW1xc2N3

<comment><USER2> Most people could likely not identify Bodoni or Garamond; few people could not distinguish the two from each other.</comment>


The Chaos and the Craftsmanship of Shenzhen - <AUTHOR> http://rexstjohn.com/the-chaos-and-the-craftsmanship-of-shenzhen-part-ii/ <comment><USER2> The author mentioned DJI, creator of the phenomenally popular Phantom line of quadcopters, as a company which combined software and hardware to open new realms.

From my personal experience, their software is absolutely atrocious. Talk to anyone who has built more than a toy app using their SDK and you'll be regaled with stores of insane hacks. For example, at least in the Phantom 2 days, they didn't provide any method to determine the capabilities or model number of the quadcopter that you were controlling. As a result, my friend's company had a hack that would rotate the camera gimbal until it hit a limit stop and use that angle to determine the model.

On the flip side, their "range extender", a required component if you want to talk to a Phantom 2 from an Android/iOS device, is really just an OpenWRT router acting as a 802.11g bridge.

There's a lot to be said about improving quality of Chinese hardware and software, but it's definitely not up to western quality levels yet.

<comment><USER3> > There's a lot to be said about improving quality of Chinese hardware and > software, but it's definitely not up to western quality levels yet.

Anecdotally, last year I worked for an Asian company which had an office in Shenzhen. They were not able to compete with western tech, in part because they didn't understand the benefits of cloud computing. They wanted to own all their own hardware and it really slowed down software development.

I also got the sense that most primary source programming resources are in English (stack overflow, etc.), and that unless your English was pretty good you might have a hard time keeping up with newer techniques. I think this will improve with time.

<comment><USER4> Cloud computing in China is a total shit show:

1\. Go with a foreign cloud provider which has horrible latency thanks to the Great Firewall, and could get permanently blocked any time at the whims of the government.

2\. Go with one of the big Chinese tech companies (Baidu, Alibaba and Tencent), where it's almost guaranteed that they will steal your idea/code/data, clone your product, and rely on their massive size and network effect to destroy you. They didn't get big through innovation like Western tech companies; they got big by stealing and government-backed monopoly.

3\. Go with a smaller Chinese tech company that has reliability problems and could go belly up at any time.

<comment><USER5> We use AWS.cn for our service. But found out last week that AWS doesn't actually have a license, and piggybacks on some third party provider in beijing.

[http://m.baidu.com/news?tn=bdbjbody&bjaid=392506&bjdomain=la...](http://m.baidu.com/news?tn=bdbjbody&bjaid=392506&bjdomain=lanjingtmt&)

<comment><USER6> I think all the western cloud providers work like this; e.g. Azure in China. It isn't really that they can't get a license, but getting a license requires a certain amount of exposure to Chinese law that many western companies can't take on.

<comment><USER5> I guess that's true. But it wasn't something we'd considered properly.

Gives us more of a reason to move to a Chinese provider for our CN servers.

(This is now simpler as we're standardizing on Kubernetes for deployments, so Kubernetes on AWS.cn vs Kubernetes on Aliyun should be equivalent)

<comment><USER6> The idea is that the technology is constant at least. Also, tech support often goes along with it.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> "The innovation process always starts with copying and in Shenzhen they are copying systematically at a scale you can scarcely imagine. A student who copies Van Gogh relentlessly may not initially understand how Van Gogh undertook original works of art. After enough copying, that same student may grasp the underlying theories and extend them into new areas."

\- China is often criticized for the copying as violating IP, but one could also argue that copying and adding new changes to the copy is the lifeblood of open-source innovation and the nature of decentralized systems as well as human biological evolution. A great book that explores these ideas is 'The Evolution of Everything' by Matt Ridley. I recommend it.

"much of the "Efficiency" America has traded for lower cost manufacturing has come at the cost of our ability to bring all of the key pieces together at home."

\- There is likely much truth in this statement by Andy Grove and perhaps American companies and leaders should take pause. Labor cost arbitrage in foreign countries like China and Mexico might be like a balloon mortgage for America where the costs are low upfront for some years, but then the large bill comes later.

<comment><USER8> Here's a great article that explains how IP in China works --- it's definitely more sharing-centric than the West: [http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=4297](http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=4297)

If it could be summed up in one sentence, it would be "Everything is a derivative work." Instead of trying to claim complete exclusivity, they implicitly realise that everything someone creates is always built upon the knowledge of others.

<comment><USER9> > everything someone creates is always built upon the knowledge of others

Right. Sure. These are the kinds of beliefs often verbalized by people who never risked their own time and money to solve hard problems and had to face the risk and reality of the Chinese (or others) stealing the results of that effort.

Here's the difference, the "R" in "R&D" is the most expensive part. The "D" is cheap. By stealing they get the "R" for free and can afford devastating predatory techniques to own the market.

We devoted ten years and millions of dollars to solving a very hard problem. I decided we would keep all of it a trade secret.

Why?

Because, that was the only way to make "D" very expensive. Stealing something when the cost is just as high as having to develop it often scares away a lot of thieves.

It's one thing if you are developing a new set of headphones that don't really have much in the way of technical innovation. It's quite another thing when you are solving a hard problem (which can be risky, very expensive and require a long and constant effort).

<comment><USER10> What is the hard problem you were trying to solve?

<comment><USER9> I'll just say it was a very hard problem in imaging. A solution involving the confluence of hardware, optics, software and real-time FPGA-based very high resolution image processing. We even had to go as far as to develop manufacturing techniques that involved assembling electronics in a vacuum chamber.

Given the application I can't say any more than that.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> A bit tangential, but something fantastic it mentions is electronic payment. In China it's already like living in the future. Most shops accept WeChat or Alipay. Everything from chain supermarkets down to the old lady selling vegetables on the side of the road. They've really penetrated the market from top to bottom.

If you find a shop that does require cash, you can stop a stranger in the street and trade cash for WeChat money. Or as the article said, the shop staff themselves can sell you cash using their personal accounts.

I'm sure these services have to deal with their share of fraud but the system is fundamentally more secure than credit cards which rely on trust. So there's the potential for lower costs and wider availability. Who needs the expense of PCI compliance when you never have access to your customer's payment credentials? It seems bizarre to think that in paying by credit card, you're effectively giving the merchant the username and password to your bank account and asking them to please not take any more money than they promised to.

<comment><USER12> Do you know what their government's position on these currencies is?

<comment><USER11> They're completely above board. It's still the RMB currency just using and app to pass it around between people's app accounts and bank accounts. Bitcoin on the other hand is restricted I believe, so is exchanging RMB for foreign currencies.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> > The next decade is going to be all about the relationship between China and > the United States in technology, I want to be there to see it happen.

So does the author plan to move to Shenzhen, one of the world's most densely populated and polluted cities, in a country that doesn't have free speech?

I agree SZ has the best tech scene in China, perhaps due to its proximity to the freer Hong Kong, which has always been the major gateway to the west. I love SZ in many ways. But it takes a certain kind of person to want to live and work under those conditions and I doubt even the author himself plans to move there for the next 10 years.

<comment><USER11> No country has free speech. But in choosing a country, you can choose which types of speech you want to be allowed to make freely and which types you want to be protected from other people making.

America gets its free speech by defining the word to mean any communication that's permitted to be free. If the law disallows something then by definition it's not speech anymore, or it's an exception that's so obvious nobody mentions it. Examples: Flag burning, copyright infringement, libel, slander, threats, incitement to violence, child pornography, false advertising, revealing state secrets and trade secrets, violating NDAs, sharing insider information about listed companies. Wow, there's quite a lot of things you're not allowed to say in America!

It's a bit like Athenian democracy where everyone could vote. Of course women, children, slaves and foreigners obviously weren't part of "everyone" so there's no need to mention them.

<comment><USER13> That's pretty cynical. Its disingenuous to suggest 'free speech' ever meant free to lie and hurt other people. The freedom is intended to mean 'free to criticize the government', as that was called sedition in past ages.

<comment><USER14> _> he freedom is intended to mean 'free to criticize the government', as that was called sedition in past ages._

And then the US has these: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_speech_zone](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_speech_zone)

Also sedition seems to still be illegal in the US: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedition#United_States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedition#United_States)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> I have been in China this and last February and feel this article represents the development well. One of the bug strenghts of the US of the last 20 years was the internet dominance. But the western world struggles to get the mobile internet to a point where it should be. On the other hand China's internet grew up with mobile phones. Many people have never owned a desktop computer, maybe only know it from internet cafes. Their first internet access was with their chat app QQ on Nokia phones at a time the first smartphones came up in the western hemisphere (about 2010). Also Chinese people are less concerned about privacy and more open to try crazy new things with their phones. All that together with a locked in marked that can't be overrun by US startups makes China slowly but surely beat the western market.

I certainly miss to pay stuff by phone or add contacts by just scanning their QR Code (without an extra app my iphone can't even add a normal contact from a business card with QR Code, despite the data in that code probably using the Apple created digital business card format).

<comment><USER16> Yes, but the privacy bit is wrong. Chinese as all asians are very concerned about privacy and government spies patrolling and censoring their free internet space.

There are a lot of invite-only app spaces, and you trust the one you see, but not a random internet guy. It's less about politics, more about government track down of "porn" (=prostitution) and corruption.

<comment><USER15> Sorry, I don't understand it yet. In China most people use QQ and Wechat. Nobody even thinks about that the government is reading their messages as well. It's not a discussion point, neither behind closed doors nor in the open.

"you trust the one you see, but not a random internet guy" the one I see where? What invite-only spaces you know? Afaik everybody uses Wechat and other chat apps are mostly disregarded.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> For those interested, there's also a great post by InstaPainting about Dafen: How do you paint 10,000 paintings a month? [https://www.instapainting.com/blog/company/2015/10/28/how- to...](https://www.instapainting.com/blog/company/2015/10/28/how-to- paint-10000-paintings/)</comment>


Section through an octopus shows the mouth passing through the brain - <AUTHOR> https://anatomytoyou.com/2016/05/10/section-through-an-octopus-shows-the-mouth-passing-through-the-brain/ <comment><USER2> I recently watched a really good documentary series called Inside Nature's Giants[1], featuring dissections of various large animals. In the giant squid episode they have a bit about the donut-shaped brain. I found this version of it on youtube:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=088bhv3pjq0#t=49m34s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=088bhv3pjq0#t=49m34s)

[1] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inside_Nature's_Giants](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inside_Nature's_Giants)

</comment><comment><USER3> It would help a lot to supplement the section photograph with a sketch that had labels. The phrase "stripey-looking brain between the two advanced camera eyes" is not especially helpful. What a contrast this modern site makes to the old-fashioned Gray's Anatomy, e.g. [http://www.bartleby.com/107/247.html](http://www.bartleby.com/107/247.html) for the human stomach.

<comment><USER4> First, I am open to correction. I usually focus on human anatomy, but have a special place in my heart for histology. This image is a histological slide, (a picture of stained cells) and rather low resolution, so specific cell structures are difficult to determine. Based on my education, experience, and links below, I believe the following to be the labeled anatomy.

[http://bioscicreative.com/portfolio-item/octopus- histologica...](http://bioscicreative.com/portfolio-item/octopus-histological- enhancement/)

Sources: [http://springerplus.springeropen.com/articles/10.1186/2193-1...](http://springerplus.springeropen.com/articles/10.1186/2193-1801-3-22) [http://tolweb.org/accessory/Cephalopod_Digestive_System_Comp...](http://tolweb.org/accessory/Cephalopod_Digestive_System_Comparisons?acc_id=2152) [http://chestofbooks.com/animals/zoology/Anatomy/Cephalopoda-...](http://chestofbooks.com/animals/zoology/Anatomy/Cephalopoda- Cuvier-Part-6.html) [http://tolweb.org/notes/?note_id=4541](http://tolweb.org/notes/?note_id=4541) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digestive_system_of_gastropods](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digestive_system_of_gastropods)

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> Our guts also pass through our brain... our gut brain, [1].

[1] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enteric_nervous_system](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enteric_nervous_system)

</comment><comment><USER6> I am unable to comprehend the image in the article :( Can someone point me to a labeled diagram explaining how the mouth passes thru the brain?

<comment><USER7> TLDR;

>This section through a young octopus shows the stripey-looking brain between the two advanced camera eyes, surrounding part of the oesophagus (small white centre towards the base of the eyes). Also visible are two of the characteristic arms, with multiple suckers and thick nerves running through them. The strange and seemingly precarious arrangement of the

<comment><USER6> Is this correct? [https://i.imgur.com/1tQcqAB.png](https://i.imgur.com/1tQcqAB.png)

Sorry for being dumb :/

<comment><USER8> I think the top brain is the digestive system.

<comment><USER4> Based on what appears to be pattern in the "top brain" I believe it to be some kind of secretion or filtering organ. Based on my reference links above in the reply to bluenose69, I think it is the digestive gland. The stomach is actually much smaller and has a hollow opening at the very "top" of the octopus.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Octopuses are so cool.

Because of their use of tools etc it helps us relate to them in a special way. They also help us realise we're not the only cool and capable creatures on earth. I love that about them.

Then you read about stuff like this! So cool.

Hail Octopuses!

<comment><USER10> Very clever creatures. It's such a shame they only have a two year lifespan.

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> Geez... And I thought brain-freeze sucks as a human!

</comment><comment> awinter-py title sounds like a metaphor for what's wrong with congressional spending</comment>


Show HN: YouTube SparkNotes – Raven Points Chrome Ext – Free, No Login Required - <AUTHOR> https://www.ravenpoints.com <comment><AUTHOR> Get timestamps and summaries of YouTube videos on command. Instead of scanning the comments section or tabbing through the video by pressing the right arrow key, click the extension and get them immediately! Build karma and reach the top of the leaderboard by having your notes upvoted.

Try the Chrome extension here:

Website: [https://www.ravenpoints.com](https://www.ravenpoints.com)

Webstore: [https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/raven-points- chrom...](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/raven-points-chrome- exten/afdlhnolhionllbdecfjfllghhnalggf)

Reddit has been great to me so far and I've made all the updates suggested.

If you're not against it, I'd love to hear your feedback</comment>


Microsoft given 3 months to fix Windows 10 security and privacy - <AUTHOR> https://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2016/07/21/microsoft-given-3-months-to-fix-windows-10-security-and-privacy/ <comment><AUTHOR> The point that stands out to me is -

 _Data still being transferred outside EU on a "safe harbour" basis: Microsoft's transferring account holders' personal data to the US on a "safe harbor" basis, in spite of the Safe Harbor agreement having been ruled invalid by the top EU court in October 2015._

That is the one most likely to be a big issue for businesses running non- Enterprise versions (i.e. Pro).</comment>


Megadesk - <AUTHOR> https://www.tindie.com/products/gcormier/megadesk/ <comment><USER3> I have a Jarvis standing desk right now and I'm very happy with it, but I've recently gone on a home automation bender and want to automate all the things. In particular, I'd like to be able to control the desk remotely so that I can add it to a Home Assistant script that fires via an Alexa skill.

This seems a bit silly, but I have a whole configuration that I use for coding that is different to the config that I use for (say) gaming - <USER2> monitor settings, change in lighting, open/closed window shades etc. I'd like to adjust desk height similarly (I have two keyboards and mice, one positioned below the other one on a pull-out keyboard tray).

So, any ideas on where to start automating this particular kind of desk? The controller is a sealed unit and my google-fu is lacking when it comes to finding the protocol used to communicate with the desk itself.

EDIT: Found this: [https://github.com/sarahkw/deskctrl/blob/master/schematics/r...](https://github.com/sarahkw/deskctrl/blob/master/schematics/reverse_engineer.jpg) not sure if my desk is a JRV1 or not yet but will find out.

<comment><USER4> I've been considering a new desk recently, since I will be WFH for the foreseeable future, and I'm considering the Jarvis.

How's the lateral stability in a Jarvis? I want to be able to mount a gaming wheel with very strong force feedback to my desk, and the Jarvis's lack of a cross bar makes me doubt it's as strong as an UpLift V2 desk which I'm also considering.

<comment><USER5> I happen to have both a Jarvis desk I bought 3 years ago, and just recently bought an UpLift v2 with the commercial crossbar package as an additional desk in my office. Both sit next to each other, making comparison easy.

I was content with my Jarvis until I received the Uplift. Stability comparisons are night and day: Uplift (with crossbar) has vastly superior stability at standing heights. The Jarvis has noticeable sway just using a keyboard and mouse, while the Uplift remains stable even when pounding on music gear. Both are stable at sitting heights. I found accessories (such as cable management) to be better with Uplift as well. It is enough of a difference that I am considering replacing the Jarvis with another Uplift desk in the future.

To Jarvis' defense, I am comparing their 3 year old product to their competitors' product I bought 1 month ago, and the overall desk experience with Jarvis is still good enough that I'm in no rush to replace it. I will be only buying standing desks with crossbars from now on, though.

<comment><USER4> Thank you for the info!

Do you think it's worth the extra money for the 4-legged Uplift? Would it be more stable than a C-frame or T-frame?

Did you also get Uplift's CPU holder? I'm unsure of the ability of it to fit over the crossbar of the commercial frames.

<comment><USER5> I went with the commercial C-frame with a 60" desk and I think the 4 legged version would be overkill. I have a 27" iMac sitting on a 4U rack monitor stand filled with devices and probably around 30 pounds of music equipment on top of the desk and it feels consistently stable with no strain when changing heights. Unless you are putting seriously heavy stuff on top I don't think you need 4 legs.

No CPU holder, but I got the retractable keyboard tray. At the lowest height (under 24"), it collides with the crossbar when fully pushed back. This never impacts me because it is well below the lowest height setting I use for sitting and can't imagine it being an issue for anyone else. If the CPU holder collides with the crossbar, though, it'd probably happen at an unacceptable height. I would check the dimensions of everything before purchase.

For my purposes, I have an an additional desktop machine I simply keep on the floor by the desk.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> IKEA has a new standup desk called IDÅSEN: [https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/idasen-desk-sit-stand-black- dar...](https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/idasen-desk-sit-stand-black-dark- gray-s79280998/)

It can be controlled via Bluetooth with an app on your mobile. It is a much better option in comparison to Bekant in my opinion. The tabletop on IDÅSEN is much thicker too, making monitor mounts safer to install. If you are on the market for a standup desk with good value, pay $100 more and buy IDÅSEN instead of the Berkant desk mentioned in the Tindie campaign.

<comment><USER7> I had a feature request to support IDASEN and came to the same conclusion.

However, for myself (and I suspect others), I don't need yet another app to do something. I want to push a button and be finished in 1 second for something like a desk. Cognitive load on this should be zero.

<comment><USER8> Generally these devices use Bluetooth Low Energy (BLE) for control, which has a well-defined 'schema' where devices expose 'services' which contain a number of read/write/notify 'characteristics' that are used for control. It's pretty easy to reverse engineer this stuff, I spent around two hours doing it with a sleep number adjustable bed base. Once you have the protocol of course you can just write a program to connect to the MAC address and send the commands. Another response to the parent shows that this has already been done.

On Android the free (as in money) NRF Connect application lets you browse the services/characteristics, tells you which ones are read/write/notify, and snoop+send data. I also had to use the 'Bluetooth Snoop Log' setting in Developer Options and open the log in Wireshark to sniff some of the packets that the app sent. The log contains timestamps so you can wait 10 seconds between operations to make it really easy to identify what does what. All you need in Wireshark is a filter like 'btatt.uuid128 == ff...:ff' to filter to just the characteristic you want to sniff.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Ha, I just built something like this with a Raspberry Pi for fun. My standing desk (a Conset) only had a up/down button so I used a RPi + relay hat + distance sensor + screen/buttons to allow height presets as well as control via Homebridge:

[https://imgur.com/a/9YF7FuP](https://imgur.com/a/9YF7FuP)

Not exactly cost effective, but it was a fun way to learn about relays.

<comment><USER10> Out of curiosity, why did you go with height instead of timing? Wouldn't you get equivalent results without the use of the sensor by activating the motor for a set period of time?

<comment><USER9> Yeah I tried timing first but it was hard to get right. The weight of the desk affects it and it also goes down quicker then it goes up (not sure if that's common with all desks - I would assume so). You also can't use the regular up/down adjustments if you rely on timing as it would be out of sync (I have buttons to raise and lower regularly as well as moving to presets)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> I have one of these. It makes the IKEA desk much nicer. Being able to adjust to pre-defined heights is something that should have been supported from the start.

The only real complaint that I have is how difficult it was to swap the original board for this one. But changing boards was probably not high on the IKEA priority list.

<comment><USER7> We can call it the "BEKANT Tatoo" when you stab yourself with a spudger trying to open that damned case.

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> I just realized that I have a problem, where I think "why would I pay $50 for a PCB that I can design and make myself?" and then conclude "therefore nobody would pay".

Maybe I should start selling some of the PCBs I made.

<comment><USER13> The seller provides all the Gerber files, BOM, etc. [https://github.com/gcormier/megadesk](https://github.com/gcormier/megadesk)

But it's pretty clear many are buying the pre-assembled kit. Hand soldering SMD components is pretty tedious.

<comment><USER14> I bought one of the kits and assembled it myself (although it looks like kits aren't currently for sale.) The only hiccup I had during assembly is the random board profile I found in the Arduino IDE had the chip layout reversed which took me a few minutes to figure out based on the source.

<comment><USER13> The pin spacing on J2 looks like it would need a pretty steady hand to me. Though it appears only 3 of the pins matter.

<comment><USER14> I have access to a SMD oven (just a toaster oven with a fancy controller.) Manually applied solder paste, placed the parts and they flowed just fine. Same process with a hot air gun should work but will be a little more finicky.

<comment><USER13> I'll have to try that out. I suspect I'd still have trouble like accidentally shaking the components off center while putting them in the oven.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> I suggest they also program a child lock for the buttons. My son caught his fingers between a chair under the desk and the desk itself while pressing the down button, luckily I jumped in time to help. I've since then moved the controls on top of the desk and at the back.

<comment><USER16> The IKEA standing desk seems to have a safety key that needs to be plugged in for the desk to move.

<comment><USER7> Correct, the desk will not move without the key inserted, even with megadesk.

<comment><USER17> So THAT is what that is for... I have had some of these Bekant tables, never understood the reason that thing needed to be plugged in.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> Crazy that this is here, this is the product of a friend of mine!

I will admit, my reaction to the price was that its not cheap either, but i also really did want my ikea desk to have this functionality and its pretty easy to justify given how much use my desk at home gets now. The solution he's made is very solid, never let me down, and was easy enough to install (Although Ikea make it hard by plastic welding the box shut).

</comment><comment><USER19> I recently got myself a commercial-grade Workrite Sierra HX Electric standing corner desk to make what appears to be a pretty permanent WFH situation more pleasant. Safe to say I won't be volunteering to go back to the office anytime soon.

Video: [https://www.dropbox.com/s/h6ja2epcja2cwd8/standing_desk.mp4](https://www.dropbox.com/s/h6ja2epcja2cwd8/standing_desk.mp4)

You can even kneel on the ground with this one, because it goes as low as 22.5" as per BIFMA G1-2013 requirements.

It seems to have the same up/down interface (panel and app) as the IDÅSEN from IKEA, which is interesting. Exactly this one: [https://www.linak.com/products/controls/dpg-with- reminder/](https://www.linak.com/products/controls/dpg-with-reminder/)

<comment><USER7> IKEA Bekant contracted the design to [https://rolgroup.com/](https://rolgroup.com/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER20> I guess this makes mostly sense if you plan on extending the firmware. A stupid idea I was thinking about is a table that moves once a day into the standing position. I used to work at a standing desk and after a wile almost never used the feature. Maybe a warning-beep would make sense...

edit: mixed up the price, removed my first sentence

<comment><USER7> There's an open feature request to allow this type of functionality. Someone else wanted it to randomly move during working hours (a few times a day) to force them to alternate their position.

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> FYI, these motorized desks can be dangerous, so be careful. My friend had a desk in a high position, and lowered it, not knowing a chair was off to the side slightly under the desk. It hit the chair and kept going, and tilted the desk and his monitor and desktop tower fell off the table. I've also had the arm rests of my desk get caught under them. There's lots of things that can happen, like catching an open door's handle. A child can hit the button and get hurt.

IMO they should have some sort of sensor thing that detects a change in resistance or something.

<comment><USER22> My Jarvis will stop and reverse a few inches if it hits something. I have triggered it just setting my coffee cup down while it was raising.

<comment><USER23> Interesting, my Jarvis doesn't and it's 18 months old. I've had the same scenario happen that OP described.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> If anyone has concerns about the reliability/safety of electric desks and are also put off by crank desks, I can recommend pneumatic standing desks. They can transition between standing and seated very quickly, faster than either crank and motor. This looks like what we have in our office: [https://www.standupdeskstore.com/pneumatic-adjustable- height...](https://www.standupdeskstore.com/pneumatic-adjustable-height- standing-desk)

<comment><USER25> I don't mind electric desks but I prefer crank operated ones, like the Adler Desk which totally slays, because there is no motor to burn out and need replacement: [https://work.ohiodesign.com/adler- desk.html](https://work.ohiodesign.com/adler-desk.html)

</comment></comment><comment> tokamak-teapot For those worrying about motorised desks and their safety, I just want to recommend Ikea's manual desk. It works fine. I don't know why I'd want a motor in it.

<comment><USER26> I went to the store to have a look at that desk. They had three on the floor including one that was assembled three days ago according to the staff there.

They were all so wobbly as to be unusable. Put some pressure on where the monitors or where you're hands would be and everything shook.

Knowing how robust ikea is, I hard passed and got the stationary bekant. It still comes with legs that are quite adjustable (but only when you assemble it, I wouldn't think it's easy to set it with stuff on it)

So yes a word of caution I guess, that desk can be rather wobbly.

I didn't go with the motorized bekant because I heard the electronics are not reliable at all and fails way too much needing warranty service. The less I go to ikea the better, and since their warranty is bring in (30kg desk)...

<comment> tokamak-teapot I use the manual desk at standing height most of the time. At this height, if I really bash on the keys of my mechanical keyboard then I can see a tiny movement in the monitor (which is on an arm clamped to the rear edge of the desk). Otherwise nothing. I don't normally bash the keys like I'm trying to break them, so yes, while it's possible to make it move artificially, in real life I don't see any movement.

<comment><USER26> Too bad ikea themselves do such a poor job at assembling their own furniture in the showroom then. Because of the wobble and the pain that it is to return ikea furniture without a car, I ended up spending half as much on a fixed bekant instead which is really good enough for my purposes as I don't ever change the height anyway.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> I use an Ikea Jerker desk as my main desk. I love it.

You can set it to any height you want, adjust the monitor shelf height, and it's so sturdy. For my home office I got two... one for work, and one for gaming.

They cost like $50 when you can find them on Craigslist.

No clue why Ikea stopped making this desk, it's better than anything they have made to date.

[https://www.jerkersearcher.com/](https://www.jerkersearcher.com/)

<comment><USER28> I was curious so I looked it up the desk, and surprised, I did have one of those.

Sure you can adjust the height, but once you have your monitor, books and what not, it is a pain to make any adjustments.

It has been in "sitting" position for as long as I can remember.

<comment><USER29> Get a bar chair/stool or something similar that puts your butt at a good height for standing, spend a day rearranging the desk to standing height. Now when your feet get tired standing you can just pull the stool out and sit for a while.

It's a lot lower-tech than a fancy adjustable desk but it's also a lot cheaper and lower hassle.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER30> I was actually hoping this was going to be some WFH setup where someone had pushed multiple desks together like that episode of The Office

</comment><comment><USER31> Am I the only one dismayed by the interface as described? User interface a few decades old were far simpler and IMO more functional -- dedicated buttons for everything (cheaper than micro controllers back then).

I'd suggest UP DOWN M1 M2 M3 with the only non-trivial function being a long- press on an M button to store position. Simple!

<comment><AUTHOR> The idea is that this is a board retrofit into the existing housing / control setup. The BEKANT only has two buttons available, so this controller has two buttons to play with.

Of course, you could build a new controller and housing with whatever input buttons you want, but the cost then would go up considerably.

<comment><USER7> I initially set out to do a complete design as you described, but homemade housing/buttons will look... homemade. :)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER32> I'm amazed at the tiny part size and part count/density "hobbyist-made" boards have achieved.

</comment><comment><USER33> This is plainly not safe. A desk with memory needs to require a continuous button press to keep advancing the desk, so that if the operator or someone gets caught in the desk and can't push the stop button, it stops as soon as pressure is released.

<comment><USER34> Fall-safe buttons would probably be ideal too - recessed/covered to minimise accidental contact. You don't want to collapse against your desk and have it crush your legs (though the motor/gearbox probably isn't that strong).

<comment><USER33> The motor could easily be that strong, depending on how many pounds loading the desk is rated for. My standing desk is an expensive model but it's rated for 600 pounds.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER35> Hah! I am in the market for a standing desk and am 95% sold on the IKEA Bekant. Just waiting to move to commit to the purchase.

I wasn't keen on the crank but I figured I could live with it. This is a nice and fun addition :)

<comment><USER36> I had the ikea one and this one:

[https://smile.amazon.com/VIVO-Ergonomic-Adjustable- Controlle...](https://smile.amazon.com/VIVO-Ergonomic-Adjustable-Controller- DESK-E151EB/dp/B084YP8PM2/ref=sr_1_7?dchild=1&keywords=vivo+standing+desk&qid=1593438736&sr=8-7)

The vivo one has been far better in features and reliability. I had to replace the ikea one because it started only going down and not up.

<comment><USER37> I've never owned an IKEA desk, but can vouch for VIVO's frames - I'm typing this comment using a mechanical keyboard on an IKEA Karlby countertop mounted to a set of VIVO V120EB legs and am experiencing minimal wobble (minimal desktop wobble, no monitor wobble thanks to the gas-spring monitor arm I have).

I also have my desktop at ~49" off the ground, including castors and a 1.5" thick countertop, and I've read that no standing desk has 0 wobble at this close to maximum height.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER38> Strange question, for anyone that has the Bekant non-motorized desk, is the desk wobbly?

I noticed that the motorized version is significantly studier, where the standard version was quite wobbly.

</comment><comment><USER39> On a related note, I recently converted my old Ikea desk to a standing desk using a kit off Amazon. Only like $150 to end up with a nice standing desk!

<comment><USER40> What's such a kit composed of?

<comment><USER39> [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23684036](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23684036)

Basically everything below the flat desk part.

Although I suggest you have a drill to make inserting the screws much faster.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER41> My IKEA standing desk died after only one year, the crank jammed in the weirdest way and it cannot rise anymore.

</comment><comment><USER42> Hmm, I could use this finally realize my dream of the "Squatting Desk".

</comment><comment><USER43> So it's called the "Megadesk," but it has an ATtiny...

</comment><comment><USER44> Can this be used to prank certain tall, beet farming, mustard yellow shirt wearing co workers at a midsized paper company ?

<comment><USER45> No, what you're describing would be called _quad desk_.</comment></comment>


Ask HN: What does a post Covid world look like for hackers? - <AUTHOR> <comment><USER2> I know this because I follow Styxhexhammer66 and I am well stocked with toilet paper and N95-masks. Foremostly the microbial world will get the attention it deserves. A worldwide database with symptons and dangers will be created. It has average joe interface, no guesswork or experts needed. AI-based systems will recognize new mutations and invent countermeasures beforehand.</comment>