SpaceX successfully launches two humans into orbit - <AUTHOR> https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/nasa-astronauts-launch-from-america-in-historic-test-flight-of-spacex-crew-dragon <comment><USER3> Other things people have posted, whose threads we've merged hither:

[https://twitter.com/SpaceX/status/1266812530833240064](https://twitter.com/SpaceX/status/1266812530833240064)

[https://techcrunch.com/2020/05/30/spacex-makes-history- with-...](https://techcrunch.com/2020/05/30/spacex-makes-history-with- successful-first-human-space-launch/)

[https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/05/todays-the-day- weath...](https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/05/todays-the-day-weather- permitting-america-is-returning-to-space/)

If there's a particularly good article, we can swap out the URL above. Edit: beefman suggested the nasa.gov page ([https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23364975](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23364975)), so we'll put that up pending any better suggestion. The submitted URL was the livestream [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIZsnKGV8TE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIZsnKGV8TE), which was fine while it lasted, but is now of the second freshness. Submitted title was "SpaceX and NASA: Crew Demo-2".

<comment><USER4> livestream still relevant? Docking with ISS tomorrow morning? All the tests they are doing?

<comment><USER5> Yes, live broadcast until docking at 10:30am EST.

<comment><USER6> To clarify, it's "EDT" not "EST":

[https://www.google.com/search?q=spacex+dock+%22space+station...](https://www.google.com/search?q=spacex+dock+%22space+station%22+%2210%3A29%22+%2214%3A29%22)

Fyi that "Daylight Saving Time" instead of "Standard Time" is in effect in case someone miscalculates it by 1 hour.

<comment><USER7> Out of curiosity, how do modern systems handle DST outside its seasons e.g. "12/31 21:15 EDT"?

<comment><USER8> I think on most Linux systems a time string in a specific timezone is just a visual representation. Internally, times are kept as a number of seconds from 1/1/70 UTC midnight (with leap second adjustments if needed). When a user wants to convert to/from a timezone it is a simple addition for the timezone offset. EST adjustment is always 5 hours, EDT always 4.

You _could_ in principle warn users that they are asking for a strange time, e.g. the one you indicated, but if the user wants to see it, why not.

<comment><USER9> I know on ubuntu servers i had to revert any DST/timezone settings and just keep everything in UTC. Because the systemd daemon for time didnt respect DST changes and would break services like kerberos.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> It is hard to convey how "sustainable" this feels to me. For the first time, humans have gone into orbit in a spacecraft that was designed from the ground up to be a commercial venture.

All of the NASA missions prior to this have an ambience of "uneconomical but useful". Even the shuttle, which was supposed to be this cost effective space truck, turned out to be not even close.

And the last thing I'm feeling is the amazement at how much technology has evolved to get us to this point. I imagined as a child that the Apollo program would lead to a factory of rockets that launched people to orbit, to the Moon, and even to Mars on demand. And seeing what SpaceX has done to get to this point, it is clear to me that was never even close to possible. The Russian program is great in that way. It shows what that path might have looked like. And yes we could have refined the making of F1 engines, the construction of boosters, and just pushed that, but that leads to a steady state that is below what you need to run a program like this with a net positive economic outcome.

So very impressed guys, congratulations!

<comment><USER11> >> into orbit in a spacecraft that was designed from the ground up to be a commercial venture.

If we are talking pure commercial travel, it is a vehicle without a destination. The ISS is definitely not a commercial project. There are lots of reasons for the ISS to exist, and they have changed over time, but it has never been a money-making venture. While the dragons certainly do come in under budget, they are a more efficient path to orbit, the purpose of the mission is not commercial. Crew Dragon's existence is funded by the need to move people to and from the ISS. Without the ISS, Crew Dragon would exist. I hold off on the "commercial" designation until the customer funding the mission actually intends profit.

What we need is a commercial, money-making, reason to launch people into orbit. Astronauts fly for science. They fly for national pride. They fly to demonstrate engineering excellence. They don't fly to make money. I'm a big spacelaunch fan but I just don't see any commercial reason to launch people into space. (Space hotels for billionaires might be a niche but that doesn't seem sustainable imho.)

<comment><USER12> I'm not super well informed on this, but is there _any_ reason for sending humans to space at this moment in time (or for the next 20 years for that matter). The only reason my layperson understanding can think of is mining minerals in space, but I fail to see why robots wouldn't be able to adequately do the job. In fact wouldn't sending humans make future space ventures even more costly and put people into unessisary risk?

<comment><USER13> Building a moon-base or mars-base would be an interesting experiment for humans.

1\. Have a backup of our species in case something happens to Earth.

2\. A great experiment in anthropology! It could help us rethink how we organize life on earth. As far as I see, a moonbase would be a "greenfield project" on land that doesn't belong to any nation, where they have to build everything from scratch. How will they organize? Will they need to work or will robots be doing everything for them? Will they be paid & will they have their own money? They will need to reject racism & nationalism to get their goals accomplished, for sure.

<comment><USER14> There are plenty of inhospitable places here on earth where you could set up your anthropology experiment— deep under the ocean, for example, heck there was even a series of videogames made about this exact scenario. :)

<comment><USER13> That's right. I'd like to see that happen too. Although I'd argue that space has much more abundant materials & resources due to its vastness. Minus the geopolitical baggage.

More importantly, there is a bootstrap problem. Where are the funds going to come from? There is no commercial benefit from such an experiment except perhaps tourism. On the other hand, a space colony could develop a self sustainable economy, developing various enterprises from tourism, mining to manufacturing

<comment><USER15> Yeah, the bootstrap funding is the main issue - other than that basically _all_ available resources are out there in space, pretty much by definition. From that poikt of view it is a no brainer, once the initial cliff can be overcome.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> How wonderful!

Congratulations to the entire Space X team, this is a real accomplishment and I'm sure not one that came easily. It's exciting to see relatively small companies fulfilling roles that people thought might require massive military contractors.

Elon is an interesting figure. He is, I think, a paradigmatic example of the imperfect creator. His undeniable success in difficult endeavors can create an aura of authority for acting within domains where signals about the appropriateness of his judgement are less clear. We've had technical experts lead us down paths that were not, in hindsight, in our best interests (I think of Teller and Von Neumann's advocacy for aggressive action against the USSR). I hope we can move away from the "elon sucks" v.s. "elon is a genius" dichotomy and into a culture of acknowledging accomplishment while insisting claims in other areas be fully justified.

<comment><USER17> Perhaps a more interesting comparison is between Elon the CEO of Tesla and Elon the CEO of SpaceX. You may notice that these are two very different personalities that serve two different corporate requirements.

The Elon of SpaceX introduces himself as "I'm proud to be here representing the SpaceX team." The Elon of Tesla is smoking up on camera, throwing humongous ball bearings at the Cybertruck windows, sleeping in his sleeping bag while trying to bring Model 3 production through the Shadow of the Valley of Death.

You almost never hear about any of Elon's direct contributions to SpaceX whereas he's mister Tesla front and center at Tesla pulling stunt after tweet. SpaceX servers a very conservative industrial market and Tesla makes consumer products. These companies require to very different types of leadership. Who is the real Elon behind this public Jekyll and Hyde dynamic? Most likely it's the driven "man of first principles" just doing what needs to be done.

<comment><USER18> I think you are pretty wrong, I see absolutely no difference at all and I follow both companies pretty closely.

The media is just much more actively following Tesla in because they are marketing to the general population there is a far more detailed view on Tesla.

However overall Elon is pretty much just Elon al the time. Elon talks about the Starship pretty much like he does about the Cybertruck. These are just products he is working on, he informs people about what is going on, changes that they are doing and so on.

Both during SpaceX and Tesla talks he gives about equal time thanking the team as far as I can tell. We know that Elon for example pushed the team to develop phase shut off for Merlin engine. We know that Elon was pushing for adopting steal on the Starship. With both companies its not totally clear when what decisions are made (as makes sense with private companies), but overall I think its pretty much the same.

Most of his twitter shananigans have nothing to do with Tesla or SpaceX, or have to do with both. The Tesla factory opening was of course about Tesla, but his comments in general about Corona were not. His Thailand diver thing was not about a particular company either.

> The Elon of Tesla is smoking up on camera

In that interview he spent about equal time on both companies

> sleeping in his sleeping bag while trying to bring Model 3 production > through the Shadow of the Valley of Death

He has said much the same kind of stuff for SpaceX stuff too. Not specifically sleeping in the factory but overwork after failures, not sleeping for a long time and so on.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> For me, the best thing about today (among so many wonderful things) is the pure and utter inspirational value of every moment.

I remember being glued to my tv when I watched the first shuttle launch in 81. For me, that inspired a lifelong passion for astronomy, which led to a PhD, and eventually a successful tech career.

Today, I sat with my daughters and watched the launch live and then went outside an hour or so later to watch the dragon (just visible) chase the ISS along the horizon in the twilight. (Needed starwalk and some binoculars to find it).

My 11 year old, was literally jumping up and down with excitement and was still telling me about her plans for Mars when I kissed her goodnight. My 13 year old straight out said, "I want to go to university in the states so I stand a chance of getting a job in that control room."

This is exactly the sort of think I want my children to witness - <USER2> humanity can accomplish when we work together.

<comment><USER20> I thought this[1] was nicely done, and potentially inspiring for students.

[1] Planet Hunter [https://vimeo.com/419873718](https://vimeo.com/419873718)

<comment><USER20> Though what I'd _really_ like to see... Different subcultures have _very_ different norms for thesis defenses. Some, molecular bio around MIT for instance, have atypically extensive "thank you" postludes. Extensive as in say quarter-hour slide shows. The defense audience is mostly the lab community, friends, family. Slides of parents and siblings and family, BFFs, sometimes undergrad friends, sometimes inspiring HS or college teachers, professors and mentors, SO's and pets, grad friends and lab mates, trips and parties and pranks. Stories and tears. Some of them are retrospectives on a life. Sometimes the struggle of it is apparent. Often that it was a great deal of fun. I speculate that it might be nifty for inspiring kids. "I can seem myself there". Defendees, and their families, are diverse.

The defenses are public, and do get taped. But I've never seen an accessible video of one. Perhaps with covid come fall. Anyway, I thought I'd mention it, in case it nudges someone.

Hmm... Kunle Demuren has a thesis defense Monday Jun 1 at 10 on zoom...

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> I am not American but as a human I feel so good about this mission. We all have a habit of looking up to sky with an awe and appreciate the beauty. My 10 years old son was so excited. Who knows he might get into this field. I wanted to study astrophysics while I was a teen. He was also watching live stream with me.

Congrats and lots of love from Pakistan. Desperately waiting for Docking moments.

<comment><USER22> That's so wonderful. I liked how Astronaut Garrett Reisman put it today: [https://youtu.be/GuXBdTF2jUY?t=4460](https://youtu.be/GuXBdTF2jUY?t=4460)

> "I hope for ten minutes just now you looked up and saw something exciting, > something to give you hope of a future full of wonder. That's the magic of > human spaceflight."

We cannot voyage far into space without our best human qualities: cooperation, reason, and hope. Each small step for all humankind.

</comment></comment><comment><USER23> This is a huge success for NASA's Commercial Crew Program. Both the total development costs ($1.7B and $2.8B for Crew Dragon and Starliner, respectively) and the per-seat costs ($60-67M and $91-99M) have outperformed all other NASA crewed programs since the early days of the agency. For comparison, development costs for the Space Shuttle were $27.4B, while Orion is estimated at $23.7B.

(From [https://orbitalindex.com](https://orbitalindex.com))

<comment><USER24> But how much of that cost was initial R&D vs what SpaceX was doing?

It's hard to compare costs given that it feels like much of NASA space development was science research into how to actually do it, paving the way for future projects.

There are many examples of successful commercial programs that could only exist because of huge ("unprofitable") government R&D behind it. Google maps, the entire internet, commercial space flight, commercial aviation...

I'm not arguing against their success, it's remarkable. I just wonder if this is more nuanced.

<comment><USER25> SLS and Orion were developed in the 21st century, when there was no need for new basic science research, and their development costs are staggering.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Launch_System#Funding_hi...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Launch_System#Funding_history)

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orion_(spacecraft)#Funding_his...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orion_\(spacecraft\)#Funding_history_and_planning)

<comment><USER26> That's not because of NASA's poor work though, much of the cost bloat there was due to the legislation that dictated how those programs had to operate, like sole-sourcing components, requiring use of Space Shuttle components furthering vendor lock in, etc. It's not a testament to NASA's failings, its a testament to politicians' self-serving legislation.

<comment><USER27> True that, but that would point to the need to do this outside of NASA.

<comment><USER26> I would say it should lead to reform in the legislative process for these sorts of projects. This launch represents the triumph of private enterprise, yes, but there is a strategic need for the US to have such capabilities independently of the ups & downs of private industry. So I would say it points to the need to have a blended approach. I would love, for example, for NASA to license the technology from SpaceX with a massive knowledge-transfer initiative to provide NASA the capabilities to do these launches itself.

I would love, for example, for NASA to license the technology from SpaceX with a massive knowledge-transfer initiative to provide NASA the capabilities to do these launches itself.

<comment><USER25> NASA wants to do exactly the opposite: help create an economy in low earth orbit in which there are many suppliers and many buyers in a healthy market. A market that doesn't need a lot of government intervention, so NASA can buy rides the way they buy regular non-space commercial shipping of people and cargo between NASA centers. They want LEO flights to eventually be managed by FAA and some traffic control organization, like airliner flights.

This can only work if there truly are many competing sellers and buyers of the same service.

A market with a monopoly or monopsony doesn't work well, and the military industrial sector often has both: NASA, NRO and DoD are not competing as buyers while Boeing, Lockheed Martin and Northrop Grumman basically take turns as contractors because DoD doesn't let one win or lose too many contracts in a row to prevent one of them needing rescue.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER28> It's absolutely incredible to see this. So much work to get us here. So much work just to organize this launch event. Seeing astronauts getting dropped off in one of the most technologically advanced automobiles on Earth and walk into the capsule sitting on top of a rocket which is the Pinnacle of humanity's biggest advancements in technology and space is astounding and goosebumps- enducing. What a time to be alive!

<comment><USER29> I dont get it, wasnt this already accomplished? Whats the big deal ? The space station already exists, astronauts have gone there before.

<comment><USER26> Because it's the first time in a decade the US has done it, and done it in a way that is significantly less expensive, paving the way for much easier access. It's a minor historical event in terms of human achievement since, as you said, we've done it before. But it's a major economical event in the history of space exploration, and historic for the potential that represents.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER30> Quick note:

Boeing got the big bucks at $5B or so for their crewed services because they have the "better" more reliable design.

SpaceX only got $3B or so.

Boeing running roughly 60%+ more per seat as well.

So a real accomplishment so far for SpaceX to pull this off.

<comment><USER31> But Boeing is forever crooning: "Yeah, but we put a man on the Moon." So NASA will lick their boots anytime and pay them whatever they want.

Off course, if Boeing messes up again, the carpet will be pulled from under their feet.

<comment><USER32> I think it's more that the DoD props up Boeing in any way they can, from sweetheart contracts like this, to trade policies designed to destroy competition (the Bombardier thing), to outright industrial espionage of other firms (the leaks of Airbus's foreign negotiations).

Edit: Changed Embraer to Bombardier thanks to emiliobumachar's friendly reminder.

<comment><USER33> Not like Airbus's hands are clean. [https://ustr.gov/about-us/policy- offices/press-office/press-...](https://ustr.gov/about-us/policy- offices/press-office/press-releases/2019/december/united-states-wins-sixth- time)

<comment><USER32> The WTO is run by a very specific brand of economists that don't see the value in a country subsidizing an industry to maintain local expertise in that industry.

I for one disagree pretty heavily with this ruling.

<comment><USER34> The WTO is run by bureaucrats who enforce the terms of the membership agreement. If national governments think it's important to subsidize local industries then they should negotiate agreements to allow for that. Don't blame the WTO.

<comment><USER32> That has the effect of cutting yourself off from more or less all trade.

The WTO leaves you with three options as not the US. 1) Capitulate and lose about any industries as the efficiencies of scales of the US economy steam rolls any industries they don't explicitly prop up in your country (the Israel model if you're lucky, the African model if you're unlucky). 2) Cut yourself off from essentially all global trade (the North Korea model) 3) form a large enough economy that you can flaunt more and more of the WTOs rules because what are they going to do? (The Chinese and EU model).

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER35> I think it's ridiculous that a rocket can fly up to 90km and return to Earth in a controlled landing in under 10 minutes. So cool.

<comment><USER36> Well, the escape velocity for Earth is 11.2 km/s...

<comment><USER37> Surely they don't want to being that fast ;)

<comment><USER38> ISS orbits at 7.6 km/s.

There's a saying that once you're in LEO you're halfway across the universe.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER39> Perhaps of interest to HN, the cockpit displays seen in the videos are HTML pages rendered in Chromium. [https://twitter.com/alteredq/status/1266853705632145409?s=19](https://twitter.com/alteredq/status/1266853705632145409?s=19)

SpaceX recently released a browser game where you use the real flight UI to dock with the ISS: [https://iss-sim.spacex.com/](https://iss-sim.spacex.com/)

<comment><USER40> Aren't physical buttons that you can feel with your touch safer than touch screens?

<comment><USER41> Not if they weigh so much you don't make 11.2km/s

<comment><USER42> Also there's the adaptability aspect. For manual controls you'd need a ton of physical controls and you need the astronauts to know them by heart. With a screen that has an adaptable interface it's much easier UX on the astronaut as the controls increase. Also I'm sure ground control can push an emergency update if need be where you wouldn't quite have that luxury with manual controls.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER43> My unsolicited advice to the folks on this thread that were moved by todays launch: make time to travel to Florida and see one of these launches in person. If you have kids take them with you.

Years ago I took some time out of a very busy schedule to see STS-130, the last shuttle night launch. I've always been a space nerd but I wasn't prepared for how seeing, hearing and _feeling_ a launch in person was so different than watching it on a rectangle. And I wasn't prepared by how profound the experience would be. It was one of the best on-the-whim-of-the-moment decisions I've made in my life. Do it. I guarantee a lump in your throat.

<comment><USER44> Absolutely agree. It's truly amazing. I've had the chance to go to Vandenberg AFB in CA for two SpaceX launches, and while I've never actually gotten to see the rocket itself because of low-level fog, the feeling of being there is absolutely insane.

You hear the countdown over the radio, and a few seconds later you feel the rumble hit you, and you can feel it in your chest as it goes up and away. It's an unmatched experience.

</comment></comment><comment><USER45> I'm surprised how I almost ended up tearing up and was close to crying while watching this.

Saying this as someone who is not a huge NASA or space enthusiast.

I did study physics, and I'm more into science than the average person though.

<comment><USER46> I pulled over on the side of the street to watch this with my kiddo on my phone. It was a historic moment that I didn't want to miss.

I really wish that we didn't have to make EVERY experience ultra casual these days though...it was disorienting to keep hearing the astronauts referred to as "Bob and Doug". These are veteran Air Force and Marine pilots. They deserve their honorifics being honored if anyone does.

<comment><USER47> I have you know Bob and Doug are important people up here in Canada, they showed us how to get a case of beer for free.

<comment><USER48> NASA hosted a (remote) movie night as a sendoff for Bob and Doug last week; the movie selected by the pair, of course, was Strange Brew.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER49> I'm actually surprised they use a touchscreen interface, and they will use that for the manual docking too! [https://i.imgur.com/YKiqIqO.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/YKiqIqO.jpg)

<comment><USER50> There are two rows of physical buttons below the touch screens along with a large manual abort lever. The physical buttons are used for manual docking.

<comment><USER51> And it's painted black against black backdrop when the decision to pull it happens in milliseconds level. :facepalm:

This is what a Martin Baker ejection handle looks like: [https://c8.alamy.com/comp/BJTDWG/martin-baker-ejection- seat-...](https://c8.alamy.com/comp/BJTDWG/martin-baker-ejection-seat-out-of- and-f4-phantom-jet-fighter-aircraft-BJTDWG.jpg)

With all due respect to all the engineers that work at SpaceX, the UI of the cockpit has regressed to the point of pure marketing. Same with the suit design, looks like an awful low budget sci-fi film. Functionalism and the beauty in the way things are without adornment is dying. And, it is painful to watch as a engineer who designs HMI systems. IMO design and aesthetic that emerge out of the way things are is so much more authentic than CEO's inspiration from a sci-fi movie genre that was probably conceived by some guy in 80's in half a dozen hours before before putting up a hollywood set. These movie makers did not study UX/UI and it was all about entertaining the audience.

Just look at how functional and beautiful the aesthetics of space flight was like during the golden era of Apollo 11. There was no design. There was just pure emergence of aesthetics from whatever they were doing to make things functional (ok, with some small exceptions like the logo and US flag on the suits): [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpLrp0SW8yg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpLrp0SW8yg)

Checkout the new Mars rover - absolutely zero marketing, pure function - [https://mars.nasa.gov/news/8649/nasas-perseverance-mars- rove...](https://mars.nasa.gov/news/8649/nasas-perseverance-mars-rover-gets- balanced/)

If SpaceX designed a mars rover, it would have gaudy shrouds and plastic covers, probably some LED lights to make it look cool, sleek 30, 45, 60 degree angles everywhere (ohhh space aesthetics), and all kinds of marketing bullshit whereas NASA engineers are focused on what is important. And it is gorgeous without even trying.

<comment><USER52> This is some seriously lame backseat HN driving. Zero skin in the game, sat in on zero mission briefs and zero design decisions. Never used it. Never spoken to someone who has.

Yet think it makes for a good HN post to "facepalm" at their decisions.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER53> I'm glad that the space age has been rekindled. I wish Europe would do something similar.

<comment><USER54> Thinking of Europe, I have a feeling that it's just surreal that this launch is happening in America at the same time with the events in Minneapolis

<comment><USER55> There is an eerie echo of history here. The late 60's were the height of civil unrest in modern America. Robert Kennedy and Martin Luther King Jr. were assassinated as Apollo astronauts were preparing to land on the moon.

<comment><USER56> Interesting point. And the riots today are nothing compared to the late 60's. Yet.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER57> I'm so excited about this.

I used to watch old space mission videos and I think how could it would've been to watch them live back in the day.

Now SpaceX has brought this excitement back.

<comment><USER58> I definitely feel like a kid watching this.

<comment><USER57> I was literally shaking from T - 2 minutes.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER59> Watching this launch has really been a bar-setting thing for me as an engineer. It's done what folks stated as a goal many times during the launch livestreams--I feel inspired to build great things after watching the success of this mission. Looking at the history of Musk and SpaceX, I just get this feeling of "I could do it too, I need to step up my game" and certainly hope someday I get the opportunity to participate in similarly incredible projects!

</comment><comment><USER60> Who else has prepared snacks and beer? I can feel blood in my ears how excited I am. Good luck SpaceX & NASA!

<comment><USER61> I popped a Gulden Draak 9000 for this to be stylish :)

<comment><USER62> Ha, not sure if people get how great that choice is if they don't know the beer. For those who don't, Gulden Draak is a Belgian beer which translated would be "Golden Dragon"

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER63> Best video found so far of it that covers launch and landing of falcon 9. Alas loss of signal during the moment, though I'm sure another camera angle/footage will come about.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JPLgs3ktyo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JPLgs3ktyo)

<comment><USER64> I've already seen conspiracy theorists online who claimed that loss of signal during every first stage landing is a proof that it's all a hoax.

Like, they switch footage to another droneship with a rocket that was always there.

I wonder if these people believe in flat Earth, too?

<comment><USER65> I read that the loss of the connection is very likely hardware related but I wouldn't be surprised if SpaceX simply doesn't want to livestream something that may crash with a high probability. Nothing to do with the anti-science flat earth movement.

<comment><USER66> Yes, shakes the whole rig causing the satellite dishes to not transmit most of the times. Last time they missed we got a perfectly streamed cloud from the booster crashing in the ocean instead. Also such a low priority, spend engineering hours on the perfect feed which they either way collect in a couple of hours or more pressing matters.

<comment><USER64> Well, they likely could stream from another ship, bit affected by shaking. And I think it should not be a 'low' priority task, given how big this is for marketing and PR. Literally millions of people are watching these livestreams. I bet if they placed some Disney/HBO logo on a landing pad, it would more than earn back the additional expenses.

<comment><USER67> > _I bet if they placed some Disney /HBO logo on a landing pad, it would more > than earn back the additional expenses._

Huh, that reminds me; a friend and I had a half-serious plan as teenagers, to get Microsoft to invest in our venture to secure the (then) remaining Buran orbiter, build a rocket and a launchpad for it, in exchange for plastering the shuttle and the rocket top-to-bottom with Windows logos.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER68> Does anyone know if there's an interactive map where we can track where Dragon is in context of the earth?

<comment><USER69> [https://flightclub.io/live](https://flightclub.io/live)

</comment></comment><comment> jules-jules Watching from Germany. The goosebumps are real. Cannot wait to see what the future of SpaceX will bring.

</comment><comment><USER23> If you're into space science and technology and want to see where we're going next, check out [https://orbitalindex.com](https://orbitalindex.com), a weekly space science & technology newsletter that I co-write.

</comment><comment><USER70> Every time they say "Bob and Doug" I keep thinking Bob and Jeb

<comment><USER71> What about Bob and Doug.. MacKenzie?

<comment><USER10> That is what I think but you have to be over a certain age I suspect.

Take off eh?

<comment><USER72> Strange Brew for those wondering. Classic movie.

[https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0086373/](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0086373/)

<comment><USER10> And before the movie they were an occasional segment on the "SCTV comedy show.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER73> A 3-minute summary for those who missed it: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1mlCPMYtPk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1mlCPMYtPk)

</comment><comment><USER74> I'm so hyped for this.

I still remember when I was very little and my dad took me to a launch once.

Hope manned rocket launches will get more regular again and seeing them will inspire a whole new generation.

</comment><comment><USER75> Anyone else feel that some parts were kind of tacky? I tuned in a few hours before the launch, and I happened to watch the astronauts get loaded into a branded Tesla car, and the announcers were gushing about how cool the side doors were. I couldn't shake the feeling that half the stream was just marketing for marketing for Elon's companies.

<comment><USER76> Broadcasters will say anything to avoid dead air. Just mute the stream until about a minute before the launch; you'll be a lot happier.

</comment></comment><comment><USER77> National Geographic is using Youtube content ID to claim all spaceX streams as their own.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tikZjwdhtSk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tikZjwdhtSk) "This video contains content from National Geographic, who has blocked it on copyright grounds."

</comment><comment><USER78> The big and annoying issue with the Crew Dragon design seems to be the chosen RCS fuel (AFAIK, monomethylhydrazine and N2O4), which makes both fueling and clearing after landing a delicate process.

Hopefully Crew Dragon proves itself as a capable platform for Earth-orbit transportation, but this fuel issue is a hard one to counter.

<comment><USER79> Earlier this week when they were de-fueling they mentioned that the "escape system" was still active during that process. Is that because the fuel is potentially dangerous? Tangentially related, can the "escape system" be activated even when the rocket itself hasn't left the ground? I watched the escape system test but IIRC it involved launching and then aborting so the pod that carries the crew was already high off the ground before the escape system was triggered. It surprised me that it could triggered from a standstill.

<comment><USER80> Anything involving fuel is dangerous. Demo-2 is first time that humans are on the rocket while its being fueled. The escape system is on while fueling and defueling since those are high risk times for the rocket.

<comment><USER81> Even when boarding commercial flights, crew tells you not to fasten seat belts if they're still refueling. Just in case you need to evacuate (of course it's just a token concern, I would t expect to survive an airplane bursting in flames even if still docked.)

<comment><USER82> people have survived even crazier situations, like an airplane cartwheeling down a runway AND THEN bursting into flames. (100+ survivors, out of ~300 IIRC)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER72> Good luck to everyone! What an exciting time.

Curious about the spacesuits and performance of the "minimal" touchscreen interfaces compared to the older stuff.

<comment><USER83> The suits are just pressure suits, more for basic protection and temporary loss of pressure, not extended EVAs or anything. They do look pretty comfortable, though, and I think the audio and signal are better.

The touchscreen interface is "different" \- the astronauts talked a bit about helping SpaceX design it and the pros and cons of it in a recent interview. I wrote it up here but you can also check the original long NASA TV thing.

[https://techcrunch.com/2020/05/04/this-is-certainly- differen...](https://techcrunch.com/2020/05/04/this-is-certainly-different- astronauts-on-controlling-the-dragon-spacecraft-via-touchscreen/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER84> Before aiming to Mars, I would consider crowfunding two free tickets for a trip on the Falcon to a couple high profile flat earthers.

<comment><USER85> I'd pretend to be a sincere flat earther if there was a chance for a free flight to space

</comment></comment><comment><USER86> [https://www.spacex.com/launches/](https://www.spacex.com/launches/)

Great graphics and timelines of the mission can be found here.

</comment><comment><USER87> And right as the booster was landing on the ship the satellite feed cut out.

<comment><USER88> That's quite normal. It happens on pretty much every launch to some extent. Something to do with vibrations causes by the landing burn and directional dishes

<comment><USER89> They'll release the whole footage once they get it back from sea. I would also like to see more video from inside the capsule too.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER72> What a moment in time! As usual, they make it look so effortless. Surprising how the suits, simpler looking interiors and interfaces seem to be taking over the old physical buttons and wires and what not. Hats off.

</comment><comment><USER90> Does anyone know what happens to the 2nd stage engine? Does it stay in orbit or does it eventually fall back to earth/go into space?

<comment><USER91> SpaceX was talking about trying to recover the 2nd stage back in 2018, Elon suggested they would use a giant "party balloon" and land it on a "giant bounce house." I haven't heard any talk of progress made since then.

[https://hackaday.com/2018/05/23/spacexs-next-giant-leap- seco...](https://hackaday.com/2018/05/23/spacexs-next-giant-leap-second-stage- recovery/)

<comment><USER92> They scrapped that idea last year afaik and are now focusing all efforts on starship which will be fully reusable.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER93> How cool is it that we have a live view of the space capsule?

</comment><comment><USER94> I think Hurley and Behnken wanted to announce a name for their Crew Dragon spacecraft on launch day. Has anyone heard about this?

<comment><USER94> In the media event from the capsule just moments ago, they named it _Endeavour_.

</comment></comment><comment><USER95> Here is the livestream with Mission Control Audio/Video feed:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxCzpa07dvg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxCzpa07dvg)

</comment><comment><USER96> How did SpaceX accelerate their development so fast ? What took NASA decades to achieve in terms of high tech rocketry SpaceX achieved in less than half the time. What are the factors ? The people Elon hired were ex NASA ? Where did the working knowledge come from ?I don't think I found the answer anywhere on the internet.

<comment><USER97> Read the Elon Musk biography by Ashlee Vance. It describes the early days of spaceX. The short answer is incredibly hard effort.

</comment></comment><comment><USER35> Can a SpaceX Crew Dragon launch from a non-SpaceX rocket? If NASA decides to diversify, can they buy a Crew Dragon and stick it on an Atlas V or Delta IV? It seems not.

The Wikipedia page for Crew Dragon says "The spacecraft launches atop a Falcon 9 Block 5 rocket and returns to Earth via an ocean splashdown." [1]

The Wikipedia page for Boeing Starliner says "It is designed to be compatible with four launch vehicles: Atlas V, Delta IV, Falcon 9, and Vulcan." [2]

[1] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon_2#Design](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon_2#Design)

[2] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_CST-100_Starliner](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_CST-100_Starliner)

<comment><USER40> They might need a dongle.

</comment></comment><comment><USER98> In times of covid and all other negativity this is inspiring to say.

</comment><comment><USER99> It blows my mind how SpaceX stared a decade ago and is making history, pushing the edge and making science fiction come true.

And here I am fighting webpack to not take minutes to compile a bunch of js files.

Everytime I watch SpaceX rockets fly, I ask myself "Am I wasting my life? Is what I am doing even worth it?"

I hope we start a huge manufacture economy here that rivals the software economy. We've gotta move from being mass consumers to sustainable and ultra- efficient consumers.

<comment><USER100> Actually, SpaceX was founded in 2002, so closer to two decades than one.

</comment></comment><comment><USER101> Just watched the docking. Strangely when the module entered the shadow of the station, the edge of the shadow was a gradient. I would have expected a knife- sharp line. Is this because the camera resolution couldn't render it as a sharp line? Other clear edges were visible in the image. Or is the station somehow fuzzy around the edges? Does the module surface somehow soften the shadow? Confused.

</comment><comment><USER102> I watched the first shuttle launch as a child. I watched the tragedy of Challenger in my school's gymnasium, and I watched STS-135, the last orbiter mission, from a bridge in Florida.

This is a monumental day for our country.

</comment><comment><USER103> One of the first SF books I read as a young teen (and so don't recall the title) was about the pilot of an asteroid-miner. I was already intrigued by astronomy, and that got me interested in space travel. I don't really care what the excuse is to go.

There's a lot of intense interest in that idea, and yet so far we've barely gotten off the ground. Furthermore, unless some things change, our time window for being able to do that is growing shorter. Without a re-focus, it may not happen for a thousand years. And that'd be a shame. Dreams and stories that don't fuel action are wasted.

Lots of old books talked about 'Conquering Space'. Looks like we need to conquer ourselves first.

</comment><comment><USER104> Loved the SpaceX guy on handover to NASA: "... and thank you for flying on Falcon today!"

Private space flight started with this flight.

<comment><USER78> > Private space flight started with this flight.

I hear Dennis Tito and Mike Melvill sighed.

<comment><USER104> That was both on government capsules.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER105> Not very Kerbal, good job and goodspeed!

<comment><USER82> I secretly wanted an inset of the two astronauts faces in the lower right corner.

</comment></comment><comment><USER106> Noticed those big kneeboards atop astronauts suited knee, with some kind of pen tethered to it, like good-old sign-in clipboards. The surface is white, but does not seem to glow.

Is it real paper and pencil? Or some sort of e-ink tablet. iPad? Kinda bukly, though...

Who needs a space-pen? Got a space-watch? :)

<comment><USER107> That's paper, sitting on top of a traditional tablet with a glass screen (maybe an iPad, maybe an Android tablet.) There's a pen or pencil kept in a slot in the pack strapped to his leg underneath the tablet.

That's as much as I was able to gather from today and Wednesday's livestream.

</comment></comment><comment><USER108> "American astronauts on American rockets from American soil on their way to the International Space Station, our national lab"

The ISS is not "our national lab". The hint is in the name.

Also, glad we got the very important reminder that this is happening in ___AMERICA_ __

</comment><comment><USER109> So whatever happened to Virgin Galactic? I know they were planning a reusable spaceship that would focus on tourism first. Was the plan just too complex in comparison to the simpler capsule-on-a-rocket approach? Or do the economics not stack up?

<comment><USER110> Virgin Galactic is not going to orbit. They do suborbital spaceflights.

The difference in effort and energy required is roughly 1:10. They basically just throw people high up so that they can say they have been space.

</comment></comment><comment><USER111> We just got back from watching the launch in person from Cocoa, FL. It seemed as if ten thousand people have come out to watch the rocket climb up. Everyone cheered hard, and spirits were unbelievably high despite traffic and rain.

</comment><comment><USER112> The fuckers did it! Congrats SpaceX and NASA.

</comment><comment><USER113> I was surprised at how quiet it was. Lacked the roar of the space shuttle.

</comment><comment><USER58> Anyone know how long it will actually take to get to the ISS?

<comment><AUTHOR> [https://www.nasa.gov/specials/dm2/](https://www.nasa.gov/specials/dm2/)

> Lifting off from Launch Pad 39A atop a specially instrumented Falcon 9 > rocket, Crew Dragon will accelerate its two passengers to approximately > 17,000 mph and put it on an intercept course with the International Space > Station. Once in orbit, the crew and SpaceX mission control will verify the > spacecraft is performing as intended by testing the environmental control > system, the displays and control system and the maneuvering thrusters, among > other things. In about 24 hours, Crew Dragon will be in position to > rendezvous and dock with the space station.

<comment><USER79> Do they have to stay seated & buckled the whole 19 hours? Dare I ask how they eat or go to the bathroom on the 19 hour trip?

<comment><USER114> No, there's room for them to get "up" and take their suits off. Eating is no problem, the food is basically MREs. There is a toilet.

<comment><USER115> >> they could have anything that doesn't create crumbs

Would you get a reference to M&Ms? I know SpaceShip1 was 16 years ago now. How time flies.

<comment><USER114> Bitesize candies that melt in your mouth but not in your hand would be a good choice. :)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER116> Any idea why both Nasa and SpaceX feed both run on 720p max?

<comment><USER117> Wondering the same here. That plus Youtube compression artifacts made this a teeny bit less enjoyable to watch.

</comment></comment><comment><USER118> during pre launch in-cabin video, one crew member appeared to be "signing" (spelling out stuff) with his left hand (?)

Does anyone have a back story on that?

</comment><comment><USER119> It's raining on the launch pad right now. We'll be lucky if the launch happens, but likely postponed to tomorrow's launch window.

<comment><USER120> According to the webcast, weather is expected to clear, so sounds promising so far.

</comment></comment><comment><USER121> This mission bring to life, literally, "per ardura ad astra". Congratulations to all from someone who gets tears in eyes everytime i see a rocket launch. Its an amazing beautiful thing that goes beyond the science and engineering. Safe journey guys and thank you to everyone that got your there and inspire everyone from small kids to oldies like me.

</comment><comment><USER122> I have followed all the news about Dragon's development for a while but having just watched the live tour of the internal area of the capsule... that was just crazy. It currently has a 4 seat layout (despite supporting up to 7 IIRC) and one of the guys performed a "backflip" in the free space. It's really ridiculous.

</comment><comment><USER123> The thruster fire looked very cool. I cannot believe how accurate the landing was.

</comment><comment><USER21> [https://www.n2yo.com/?s=45623](https://www.n2yo.com/?s=45623) to track the current position of the crew dragon

</comment><comment><USER124> I wonder whether Bezos is feeling envious (in the good sense of the word). Wouldn't it be cool a new Space Race between SpaceX, Blue Origin, and Boeing?

</comment><comment><USER125> The Moon and Mars will be Eath's R&D lab. That, plus nationalism, will be the economic incentive which will drive the settlement of those places.

</comment><comment><USER97> How can new companies get involved in the space industry? It seems that the largest problem right now is rocketry but that has a high initial cost

</comment><comment><USER126> When was the last time humans were launched into space? It happens all the time doesn't it? Astronauts going to ISS in shifts throughout the year.

</comment><comment><USER60> Same excitement and anticipation, fingers cross this time.

</comment><comment><USER127> While it's a huge success. , really it should not be heralded as an private space flight as most of it was payed for with government money.

</comment><comment><USER128> Well done SpaceX, this is a historic day. Next Starship!

</comment><comment><USER129> This is what makes America great. An immigrant making all this happen and I think all this can happen only in America.

</comment><comment><USER130> Why the MRAP though?

<comment><USER131> It replaces NASA's M113 armored personnel carrier, a tracked vehicle which dates back to the Vietnam War. The fire crew sits in there for protection from an exploding rocket. The vehicle is great for evacuating astronauts.

[https://www.nasa.gov/feature/mrap-rolls-through-pad- evacuati...](https://www.nasa.gov/feature/mrap-rolls-through-pad-evacuation- runs-0)

If you want the closest view of a launch without being in the rocket, get some firefighting experience (preferably on an aircraft carrier or something of similar hazard) and then ask your senator to recommend you as a qualified guest firefighter.

<comment><USER130> OK, now that makes a lot more sense, thanks.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER132> Awesome! Private rockets and now millonaries can go to space! It is indeed very interesting how the russians milked the same cow so many times, the propaganda maschine drove the nationalist spirit high, by launching the same rocket over and over, first it was a dog, then the first man in orbit, then first spacewalk, then the first woman in space. It was literally the same launch over and over but it made people happy. :)

</comment><comment><USER133> 2nd attempt. Let's see how it goes.

<comment><USER134> I'm young enough for this to be my first time watching a crewed launch from America... Hopefully this goes well.

<comment><USER115> I'm both happy for you and sad. Its exciting, but 50 years ago people expected this to become a normal thing. The excitement and the rarity shows how badly we neglected space since then.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> Does anyone have a link to a video of the booster landing? I could only find a still shot.

<comment><USER135> Video from the barges regularly drops out when the booster actually lands, most likely because vibration from the impact of the rocket exhaust messes with the antennas. (The video is still stored on the barge, and sometimes shows up in mission-review videos later; this one probably doesn't look all that different from the past fifty or so.)

</comment></comment><comment><USER136> > "our national lab orbiting Earth," said NASA Administrator Jim Bridenstine.

Is it though?

<comment><USER137> Yes. Because the Earth is so much more massive than the ISS, the Earth-ISS barycenter is probably a nanometer at the most away from the Earth's own center of mass. So even though technically it isn't true that the ISS is orbiting the center of the Earth, it's close enough for government work (and the barycenter is certainly inside the Earth)

</comment></comment><comment><USER138> How long until Musk lands a rocket on the moon vertically ?

</comment><comment><USER139> Way to go SpaceX engineers, you've done us proud!

</comment><comment><USER140> Congrats from Russia! That was awesome.

</comment><comment><USER141> very inspirational stuff, really makes you think about the impact of your work beyond a paycheck to some degree

</comment><comment><USER142> If the astronauts had been women would you also have used the term "humans"?

</comment><comment><USER143> This headline is very speciesist.

It erases the ~200 trillion bacteria that were also launched!

</comment><comment><USER144> Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaasssssssss!

</comment><comment><USER145> Are there any black astronauts?

</comment><comment><USER146> Thank you Elon Musk and Donald Trump!!!

</comment><comment><USER147> The title is misleading. NASA did it. SpaceX just built the rocket.

</comment><comment><USER148> Let's don't forget they have pulled this off during COVID times when supply chains are under pressure, offices are closed, gathering is hard... If you can put man in space during COVID, you can do anything. Hats off to you, again, Mr Musk!

</comment><comment><USER31> Congrats SpaceX! A job well done.

I assumed this launch would be uneventful since SpaceX has been flying numerous missions to the ISS, and this one merely has people on it but is basically business-as-usual for them.

<comment><USER149> I think they've been flying the cargo dragon missions with a full-atmosphere pressure inside the capsule, just to prove that even if a person _had_ been in there for a cargo launch they very well may have survived (at least, if they had a chair I guess)

<comment><USER150> Didn't some of those missions had live cargo in mice form anyway, making an atmosphere necessary? Only the trunk is unpressurized, AFAIK.</comment></comment></comment>


Pakistan requiring registering VPNs with the Government - <AUTHOR> https://www.pta.gov.pk/en/media-center/single-media/-100620 <comment><AUTHOR> Previously, a story broke out alleging: Pakistan moves to install nationwide 'web monitoring system': [https://www.codastory.com/authoritarian- tech/surveillance/pa...](https://www.codastory.com/authoritarian- tech/surveillance/pakistan-nationwide-web-monitoring/)

</comment><comment><USER2> Chinese censorship coming to pak

<comment><USER3> I thought China banned vpn, even for foreign business. This was popped up in HN 8 month ago. [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21241712](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21241712)</comment></comment>


Modifying Microsoft Flight Simulator 4 to run on three immersive monitors - <AUTHOR> http://www.tinmith.net/wayne/blog/2017/06/immersive-flight-sim-4.htm <comment><USER5> Nice work! I still have fond memories years ago of the first time I managed to get twin graphics cards working properly with FS so I could have the instrumentation on my PC screen and the outside world projected on the wall in my office in front of me.

 _Sigh_ , I still have drawers full of CDs of Flight Sim expansions etc. sitting around. Terribly sad that Microsoft canned the entire team and the project will not move forward any more, after so many decades. I still have really vivid memory of seeing FS1 run for the first time on an IBM PC monochromatic green screen - achieving the impossible even before graphic cards were a thing!

<comment><USER6> Graphic cards were definitely a thing back then... unless FS1 rendered to ANSI art?!

<comment><USER7> No, they were not. Flight Simulator 1 was released for PC in the early 1980s (see 1), and even earlier for Apple II. Consumer graphics cards were not widely adopted until quite a bit later.

[1] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Microsoft_Flight_Si...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Microsoft_Flight_Simulator#Flight_Simulator_1.0)

<comment><USER8> I'm sure this is just arguing about definitions, but the Color Graphics Adapter (CGA)[1] was a graphics card. I don't know what else you could call it.

[1] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_Graphics_Adapter](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_Graphics_Adapter)

<comment><USER7> Ok, that's fair. The CGA is technically a graphics card. I personally don't consider the true graphics card era to have started until VGA became a thing in the late 1980s.

<comment><USER9> A simple way to think about it is that IBM-PC monochrome never had addressable pixels like Apple et al monochrome did.

<comment><USER10> IBM's MDA cards didn't support direct pixel addressing, which is one of the reasons I had a Hercules Graphics Card (original from 1982).

I spent way too much time trying to get various games to work with SIMCGA. Not only did it cause a massive slowdown (single-digit fps - or worse - <USER2> common) as it copied writes to VGA addresses into Hercules address space, the conversion from (e.g.) 320x200@16 onto a display that only supported 720x348@1 created usually required dropping/doubling lines at non-integer ratios, skewing the aspect ratio, and other nasty hacks[1].

I was very happy, years later, when I finally upgrade to a Trident TVGA9000B.

[1] [http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-To4gB6TtJJs/Uwa- qlr0_rI/AAAAAAAAA9...](http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-To4gB6TtJJs/Uwa- qlr0_rI/AAAAAAAAA9Y/XjMsZE95l6M/s1600/maniac_001.png)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> A trick for finding memory locations of some variable is to take several memory dumps changing everything you can about the game state except the thing whose location you are looking for, so fly around a bit, change altitude, change all the control positions, then change the thing you want and take another memory dump.

Anything that changed in the final dump, but didn't change in any of the previous dumps is likely to be what you are looking for.

Back in the 90s I used to do this with a tool called "Desktop Hacker" on RISC OS. [http://www.doggysoft.co.uk/dh/compr.html](http://www.doggysoft.co.uk/dh/compr.html)

<comment><USER12> There was also the series of "Action Replay" devices for doing this automatically in hardware. I still have an ISA one for PC.

<comment><USER13> And most emulators worth using also have this built in. Nice way to see the ending of that NES game you could never finish as a kid, thanks to it being "Nintendo hard"...

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> Cool! I'll have to take a look at his DOSBox debugger.

I've been wanting to do the same thing, but with the 1993 Star Wars: X-Wing game. Eventually I want to build a cockpit with a wrap-around screen and a specialized control panel with switches and indicator lights.

A few years ago, I used Cheat Engine on the Windows version of the game. I figured out the memory locations of some of the variables like shield and laser levels, but then I moved on to other projects.

It would be great if Disney were to release a modern update or sequel with the configuration options I need for this. It's good that they did release the original games on GOG.com.

</comment><comment><USER15> I probably spent months in front of FS4.... would have loved to have dual screen back then! It ran almost perfectly on a 286 machine... did so many transcontinental flights from San Francisco to New York. The graphics were bad, yet imagination made me feel like I was there.

<comment><USER13> I still crank up Jetfighter II in Dosbox when nostalgia grabs me.

To me the less detailed graphics are much more "readable" than the modern GPU powered stuff.

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> This is very cool, but the perspective doesn't seem quite right. See the road as it crosses between monitors[1] in the first video for instance. Of course he's doing this whole thing with crazy multiple game instances so it's fair enough that it's not perfect.

Most games (even AAA titles) have even worse problems with multi-monitor setups, often just staying with a basic rectilinear projection that makes the siides super stretched out.[2] We could do with better camera projection support in games in general.

[1] [http://i.imgur.com/RQA43aV.jpg](http://i.imgur.com/RQA43aV.jpg) [2] [http://i.imgur.com/laY2f4w.jpg](http://i.imgur.com/laY2f4w.jpg)

<comment><USER17> Actually the projection is correct, but the camera is not exactly at the center of projection, so it appears that the lines are bent across the monitor edges. However, if you place your head at the exact center of projection, they look correct. I'm actually doing three separate projections, instead of just stretching one image across three displays. The GoPro field of view was not able to capture everything, so I had to pull it back a bit, and so its not perfect. A spherical camera would have done a better job here.

<comment><USER16> Ah of course! Thanks for that explanation. It already looked way closer to correct than most games can manage as well.

Man I'd love to try this. I played a lot of Flight Simulator 5.1 back in the day, which actually included the whole Flight Simulator 4 world as well - <USER3> could choose to load it in from one of the menus. The untextured terrain was so much harder to read though!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> I remember you could do this with DOS Doom using the -left and -right parameters: you just needed three PC's that could run Doom AND a local area network. Quite expensive in 1993.

<comment><USER19> There was also a parameter to use stereophonic sound if your sound card supported it (mine didn't), so you tell which side monster sounds were coming from! Mind-blowing at the time.

<comment><USER20> Ah...I remember having a Guillemot MaxiSound 64 (no clue what version exactly...), and it did indeed feature incredible sound like that, but I wonder if that was later and I mix it up with Quake? Quick Google says the chip was released in 1994, so maybe, maybe not...

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> Awesome! Thats the great hacker spirit! May I ask how much time it took you to accomplish this?

<comment><USER17> It only took me a few days, maybe 20 hours total? ... I started this back in January but it took me a while to capture the videos and write it up since I've been reworking the physical frame to make the monitors fit closer.

1/4 of the time was spent running GDB trying to find the memory locations and work out the encoding scheme.

1/4 of the time was spent getting familiar with DOSBox, building on Ubuntu, and syncing the data around via UDP.

1/4 of the time was spent trying to automate the start up so I didn't need to press a hundred keys manually to configure all the displays each time I restarted it.

1/4 of the remaining time was capturing nice videos and writing it all up :)

I've done hacks like this before ... back in 2000 I worked on the team that built ARQuake but we had source code [http://www.tinmith.net/arquake/](http://www.tinmith.net/arquake/)

<comment><USER22> Really cool. So if there 3 separate instances running, how do they stay in sync? Surely these 18 bytes are not everything? So you feed the same input to all 3 instances at the same emulated time?

<comment><USER17> The left and right FS4 instances are paused at startup, while the front view is the master. The FS4 renderer seems happy to have the XYZ HPR values overwritten behind its back and it refreshes the display constantly with the latest values. So the gauges don't work on the left/right displays - <USER4> I'd get rid of them, but removing the instruments causes the left/right 3D view to not align with the front display any more.

I imagine with more studying of the memory locations, you could sync over the instruments too. Or if you really wanted to, you could just grab the video memory for the instruments on the master and blast that over the network too. Displays were so small back then that you could easily compress and send this.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> Really interesting idea of running separate instances and synchronizing them. I wonder if this could be done in legacy games to support VR - an instance for each eye - and each instance's game state and camera position synced except for slight horizontal offset for left eye vs right eye. Xwing VR!

<comment><USER24> You'd need to be able to offset the camera position per-instance, which I'm not sure the old X-Wing games can do. I mostly played Alliance, which I'm pretty certain cannot; it has several camera options, but I don't recall any that allow for arbitrary positioning. On the other hand, if you're interacting directly with the game's memory space rather than just its UI, that may not actually be an issue.

Assuming you can't reposition a camera, you could try offsetting the ship position on one of the instances, but then you'd probably have issues with the simulation states diverging - I suspect a big part of why it can be made to work with Flight Simulator is that the state of the aircraft itself is more or less the only thing that's actually _being_ simulated, so you can manipulate it to a fare-thee-well without affecting anything else. Contrariwise, if TIE fighter shots hit the ship in your left-eye instance, but miss the ship in your right-, that'a a much harder problem to solve.

</comment></comment><comment><USER25> What a wonderful throwback! I still remember the big aircraft manual that came with my Flight Simulator package and spending so many hours reading through it just trying to figure out how to get the plane to take off. An excellent game and a great hack!

</comment><comment><USER26> Speaking as someone who used to run triple screen gaming before switching my middle for a 34" ultrawide, that's truly awesome. Additional kudos for the C64 + 1541(?) floppy drive photobomb. :)

<comment><USER17> Haha, glad you noticed the C64 and 1541 :) That was my first computer :)

<comment><USER27> FS2 is also available for the C64: [http://fshistory.simflight.com/fsvault/fs2-c64.htm](http://fshistory.simflight.com/fsvault/fs2-c64.htm)

Another project, perhaps? :)

<comment><USER17> The C64 had such a tiny amount of memory, you could probably easily sync the entire state of the machine over the network :)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER28> When it was still "Sublogic" it was even more amazing.

It ran on the TRS-80 with 128x64 resolution:

[http://fshistory.simflight.com/fsh/fs1.htm](http://fshistory.simflight.com/fsh/fs1.htm)

</comment><comment><USER29> I played FS4 a lot as a kid, but I don't remember there being a jumbo jet with the modified cockpit shown in one of the screenshots. Does anyone know what that is about, was that an add-on?

<comment><USER30> Yes, it was coming with the "Aircraft and Scenery Designer".

[http://fshistory.simflight.com/fsvault/msfs4.htm](http://fshistory.simflight.com/fsvault/msfs4.htm)

</comment></comment><comment><USER31> Was there a full screen mode that didn't show the instruments? That would be nice for the side monitors. As much as I played it, I don't remember if that was an option.

<comment><USER17> Yes, you can hide the instruments. But then it changes the projection and then nothing lines up across the displays. You need to hide the instruments on all or none of the displays.

<comment><USER24> Perhaps you could add a fourth display below center for the instruments, and have the three mains just show out-the-cockpit views. The rendering method you're using seems like it would generalize that far, with the simulation running on the VM displaying the instrument panel, and the center head synced the same way the sides are now.

(Don't mind me, though - I'm just letting my old flight-sim bug live vicariously for a while through your extremely impressive setup...)

<comment><USER17> Unfortunately I don't have any more space below the center monitor to put another display :) or it gets in the way of the yoke. I tried to fit a smaller LCD display in there but it just got in the way and slowed X-Plane 11 down with an extra display to render.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER32> Please can someone do this far the BBC Micro version of Elite?

<comment><USER17> This should be possible with any emulator for old school systems, like 286 with DOS, C64, Atari, etc. All you need is the ability in the game to "look left" and "look right" somehow, and tune the field of view for correct projection. If the game can't do that, then it might not be possible.

Also, the hacks in the blog post won't work as well for anything newer than DOS, like Windows games, since there is an OS in the way and writing over memory locations gets a lot harder. You would need to approach the problem differently.

</comment></comment><comment><USER33> this one time when you realize how a working solution can be cool 30 years after, even improved and still working to the benefit of humanity. do we need to rush with all new these paradigm shifts... maybe evolution of computing needs to take a breath and introspect on all 20th century achievements and improvements before reinventing the wheel.

</comment><comment><USER34> Bro there's an option to use up to 6 monitors buried in the preferences, FS4 was used for some production simulators at the time, don't forget.

No I'm only joking, well done.

</comment><comment><USER35> Excellent read! Thanks for posting this to HN.

</comment><comment><USER36> why not use ms f sim X like the real flight simulators?

<comment><USER17> I built the set up in January to work with X-Plane 11, which I wrote up here: [http://www.tinmith.net/wayne/blog/2017/01/immersive- flight-s...](http://www.tinmith.net/wayne/blog/2017/01/immersive-flight- simulator.htm)

But I wanted to see if it was possible get the original FS4 working on this, because it seemed quite impossible.

<comment><USER36> I see. For the challenge. Thanks for the answer!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER37> that's so badass!

</comment><comment><USER38> What a great hack!

</comment><comment><USER39> Why bother modifying closed source code when you can just use FlightGear ?</comment>


The distraction society - <AUTHOR> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8603346.stm

<comment><USER2> B.F. Skinner has done a lot of research in reinforcement and one of his findings is that intermittent rewards beat predictable rewards - both for animals and humans. It's the basic principle of why slot machines are addictive and why we get addicted on getting the next "email fix". <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinforcement>

Kathy Sierra has written on how this theory applies to Twitter, which is worth a read: [http://headrush.typepad.com/creating_passionate_users/2007/0...](http://headrush.typepad.com/creating_passionate_users/2007/03/is_twitter_too_.html)

Solving this issue is probably hard since it's followed by humans and animals... So it must be programmed deep into us.

<comment><USER3> Aside from the old-school methods for developing willpower and prudence, I suppose we could try some pharma paths to altering behavior and the reward pathways.

What about something like a low dose of Ritalin (low enough to just encourage focus, not force it) and then a time released reward circuit promoter to positively reinforce the focused behavior pattern that the Ritalin helped bring about. Tie the focused behavior to some sensory stimulus (Pavlov's Buddhist attention bell) by association. Then, over time, make the positive reinforcement a bit random and intermittent to exploit that same hook you mention and back down the Ritalin dose to zero as the behavior pattern takes good root. (In retrospect, maybe I learned the wrong lessons from Brave New World. :-)

<comment><USER4> "What about something like a low dose of Ritalin (low enough to just encourage focus, not force it) "

One, finding the right dosage is a trick all by itself; two, Ritalin does not force focus. It ups the level of dopamine available to the brain. An improved ability to focus may be one of the results, but (sadly) it's not so predictable.

<comment><USER3> Ritalin was just a stand-in that had the right connotations for the discussion. Something that plays the role of enabling/encouraging focus. The real point was surrounding that state of focus with a turned-up reward system, and then using the random rewards to get the person hooked on getting and staying in the desired focus state.

<comment><USER4> OK, I see. Yeah, the idea of "psychic training wheels" would be good, help get people first _doing_ , then coupling the reward to that action, such that over time one acquires an innate desire to do that action again.

Sometimes that's how things work for me. If I can just get myself over the aversion hump I'm often then able to get on a roll and keep going. By then there's a workable feedback loop of effort and results.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Any discussion on this topic really should include Postman's "Amusing Ourselves to Death" (1985), in which he argues Huxley's "Brave New World", rather than Orwell's "1984", more accurately portrays the future dystopia against which we must be on guard.

[http://www.recombinantrecords.net/docs/2009-05-Amusing- Ourse...](http://www.recombinantrecords.net/docs/2009-05-Amusing-Ourselves-to- Death.html)

<comment><USER6> Good point, Postman's "Amusing Ourselves to Death" is really a good reference about our "entertaining society" and especially his concept "Information- Action" ratio. As our society is evolving into fast/ephemeral information and often really distanced from our reality. The effect of this irrelevant information which is limiting our real actions.

Another good reading on this topic is the work of Guy Debord especially "The Society of the Spectacle" where is explaining the degradation of social life due to the spectacular media.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> Disable email notifications and check your email on a defined schedule. It is one of the quickest ways to improve your productivity. (I do it when I wake up in the morning and when I go to sleep -- this tends to minimize wait times for customers in America.)

<comment><USER8> Also, doing customer support before going to sleep serves as a wonderful soporific :)

<comment><USER3> Shining a light in your eyes (the basis of many a type of screen) isn't, though. It can muck with your circadian rhythm (that is the basis of bright light therapy). There are some timer programs that automate turning down screen brightness in the evening..

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> The worrying thing is this isn't the first time I've though about the irony of getting distracted from what I'm doing by reading an article on distraction.

</comment><comment><USER8> _According to a 2007 study by Loughborough University academic, Thomas Jackson, most of us reply to e-mails immediately - many within six seconds. Then it takes at least a minute to recover our thoughts. Not long after, more e-mails arrive, with more checking, and so on._

While reading the article I caught _myself_ not remembering for a while what it is that I am currently working on :)

</comment><comment><USER10> This problem strongly influences people who try to start a business. Unfortunately many of them tend to be distracted heavily due to the fact that building a new business is a tough task and they irrationally avoid it.

The more hard (or mind intensive) work you have to complete the more willpower you have to use to not to be distracted.

</comment><comment><USER11> I'm getting distracted by the sheer number of people talking about how they got distracted while writing a distraction article. We get it.

Added irony, reading this article instead of working. Subtracted irony, writing that sentence after writing the above paragraph.

</comment><comment><USER12> First person that types tl;dr gets a pie in the face

<comment><USER13> tl;dr

<comment><USER12> All out, drat you.

All I have left is this this sucky golden ratio doohickey, something Euler sent over, and a stack of these things from Feigenbaum. Hard to make a pie with any of that.

<comment><USER14> _niiiice_. Though I'm pretty sure I'm missing something here.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: Where to live internationally while learning to program? - <AUTHOR>

I want to learn to program and I figure that while I am learning I can also enjoy myself and save some money by living in some interesting low-cost location. Any ideas on ideal locations?
Here are the criteria that I am considering:
1. Relatively low cost compared to living in the U.S., thus somewhere in Asia or Latin America would probably be ideal
2. A fun place to live for a ~6 month period. I have barely traveled outside of the U.S. so I think this would be a good opportunity to immerse myself in another culture and see a different part of the world.
3. If there are any programs that would speed up my learning that would be great but it is not required. I don't even know if there are things like this...
A little more about me and my motivation for this: I am a college student on a gap year who is very interested in start ups. I have worked on the business side of a start up for 7 months and now want to try learning programming to see how I like it and so I can start trying to build cool things without worrying about finding a technical co-founder. I have about 2 college courses worth of programming know how. I want to balance the learning programming with the traveling/enjoying being in a very different location <comment><USER3> You might want to look into an internship or classes abroad: really, any sort of structured program. Unless you're a hardcore autodidact, the combination of _interesting everywhere_ and an unfamiliar, difficult subject might be too much, and you'll end up not learning at all. This is almost a cliché with writers and artists, where they go abroad to be inspired and make art, and only come back inspired. As Dorothy Gambrell put it:

"Someone who shouldn't be in charge of these things gave me a grant to make a short film about tourism in Western Europe. So between the manufacture of the last cartoon and this one I left North America for the first time, spending about three weeks in the UK-France-Germany-Italy. What did I get out of the trip? 'Elgin waffles.'" <http://catandgirl.com/?p=1606>

</comment><comment><USER4> If you are not very traveled in Asia I recommend Singapore, everybody speaks English, the food is terrific, the weather is warm, and have a nice tech scene. I really like Philippines, a easy going and down to earth people. Good food, not as good as the Thai or Indian cuisine.

I know much better South and Central America. I recommend you Colombia (Cartagena de Indias is quite popular among Americans, but I prefer other places) and Costa Rica.

(Disclosure I am from Spain, but I haven't been there for ages).

Spain is also a great place to live. Very easy going people, lots of expats in South Spain, Barcelona Madrid or Bilbao. An world class food experience, extremely 'Fiesta' oriented and vibrant culture. In cities like Granada or Malaga a share flat with two people can cost around $250. From Malaga using Ryan Air and other low cost companies you can fly almost to anywhere in Europe for around $50-$70. You can also try to emulate Hemingway and be a bull runner in Pamplona.

Dont forget about Mexico!

</comment><comment><USER5> Asia or Latin America: a bit broad my friend :-) Do you prefer big cities or relaxed countryside? What kind of things would you like to do? If you don't like mountains, Nepal is not the right country etc.

If I had to pick one place in each:

South America: Buenos Aires, Argentina. A european touch, affordable prices, great culture & nightlife, a beautiful country. There are also a few tech companies there so there might be user groups etc

Asia: I haven't been there, but I heard good things about Kuala Lumpur. Malaysia is quite a diverse country, and there is a thriving developer & entrepreneur community there.

Coincidentally, I'm about to live internationally and start my business. I'm going to travel 5 months in South-East Asia, staying for a few weeks/months in each location. My first stop will be... Kuala Lumpur :-)

</comment><comment><USER6> If you've not travelled much, then perhaps South America might be an easier introduction than asia, and some basic Spanish is probably easier to pick up than the majority of non-European languages.

Im currently in medellin, colombia, 2Mb/s broadband with cable tv,phone, costs around $50/month, and my reasonable sized apartment is $370/month (6 month contract). In buenos aires, rentals were almost double for something similar (capital city pricing), and rio was slightly more expensive again (the Brazilian Real is very strong at the moment). If you would prefer not to stay in one place then most countries have 3g in major cities and usually you can find a prepaid plan which is reasonably priced as long as you use it for browsing rather than lots of youtube.

India, and thailand are less expensive than latin america, but it would be harder to learn the language and you'll more likely be spending time with other travellers. Although, given you're on a gap year, then travellers hangouts in asia (beachs, mountains etc) could be fun. I enjoyed Salvador in Brazil, lots of live music and dancing, Rio not so much, Buenos Aires feels very european in a good way, and it has the liveliness of a capital city. I've heard good things about Chang Mai and the islands in Thailand. I spent several years in India and it is very cheap and very different , but except for Goa is generally not so much of a party place compared to say, Thailand. In some places, craigslist will give you a rough idea of apartment pricing - <USER2> often there are many agents charging ridiculous prices, so find ads from private landlords to get a rough idea. Otherwise use hostelbookers.com or hostelworld.com , as a proxy for rental prices. Lonely Planet thorntree forums are probably worth a search to get some kind of idea of a destination and/or prices.

<comment><USER7> I don't think language is a problem in India in cities like Bangalore [I'm currently staying here]. Anyone knowing English can survive here.

In terms of expenses also the broadband along with phone would be under $50/month. Also in terms of accommodation you could get a good sized apartment for $300/month.

And there are other places to look around in India other than Goa :) Can't speak much about places outside of India though.

Although it would depend on what @hacktravel wants to do while travelling too.

> 3\. If there are any programs that would speed up my learning that would be > great but it is not required. I don't even know if there are things like > this...

I'm not sure what you [@hacktravel] mean by this. Are you talking of training programs of some sort? Or tech conferences?

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for the helpful response.

How has your time in Bangalore been?

While traveling, I would like to eat tasty food. Having a good night life in the city I am is ideal. Being able to visit beautiful nature and sites to see in and around where I am staying is great. Still not 100% sure what I want out of my travels 100% but I hope that gives a bit of a better picture.

As far as a program, it could be anything from university classes (unlikely to work on my timeframe, to the ability of getting quality local tutors to help me, to something like the Hacker Dojo <http://wiki.hackerdojo.com/w/page/25437/FrontPage>). Anything that could accelerate my learning.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Rent an apartment in Italy, Amalfi coast or Florence, and when not studying, meet and greet beautiful girls!

But if you don't speak foreign languages, I would consider n. Europe as many of them speak good English and you won't feel so alienated. You can also sign up for prog. courses in English abroad. Also, if you are not a super duper independent learner, being in a class or in a study group will get the best bang in the shortest time.

<comment><USER9> Dane here. Northern Europe is definitely an easy place to stay for a foreigner, but if you want to stay in a major city, rent is not going to be cheap, and food etc. is pretty expensive as well.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> SE Asia.. cheap once you're there, easy to travel around. great experience. They might have slow internet though

</comment><comment><USER11> Consider Panama

<comment><AUTHOR> Any particular reason why I should consider Panama?</comment></comment>


A kid's fake AI-generated blog fooled tens of thousands. This is how he made it - <AUTHOR> https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/08/14/1006780/ai-gpt-3-fake-blog-reached-top-of-hacker-news/ <comment><USER2> Please see [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24164470](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24164470) and particularly the top subthread.

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> Here's a link to the Hacker News submission from the blog that made it to #1:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23893817](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23893817)

All of the blog's submissions to Hacker News can be seen here:

[https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=pastMonth&page=0&prefix=fa...](https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=pastMonth&page=0&prefix=false&query=adolos.substack.com&sort=byPopularity&type=story)

</comment><comment><USER3> The best part: "...only three or four of the dozens of people who commented on his top post on Hacker News raised suspicions that it might have been generated by an algorithm. All those comments were immediately downvoted by other community members."</comment>


Interview with a DeepMind Researcher - <AUTHOR> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJ1rdVEcl5g <comment><AUTHOR> he doesn't work at deepmind actually</comment>


WeWork Accepts SoftBank Takeover Offer - <AUTHOR> https://www.reuters.com/article/us-wework-softbank-group/wework-board-accepts-softbank-rescue-deal-source-idUSKBN1X11JN <comment><USER2> [edit: deleting comment]

<comment><USER3> Well, he did spend 12 billion dollars building a 8 billion dollar company, so surely, he deserves some reward for his efforts..?

<comment><USER2> [removed]

<comment><USER4> I strongly dislike WeWork, even may have issues with its fundamental business model, but it's difficult for me to understand how someone could label it as a failure. WeWork is not Theranos: they have a product offering that works well for a lot of businesses.

<comment><USER5> A single product offering doesn't make a sustainable business. Ultimately, for it to work for these businesses, they need to prove that they can sustain the business model without capital injections.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Softbank ... now offically the Pets.com of 2019.

<comment><USER7> Softbank was the Pets.com of 2000. Their market cap dropped from $200B to $2B. Masayoshi Son was "worth more" than Bill Gates for 3 days.

It's their playbook. Although they left the dotcom crash losing 99% of their value, they walked out with a stake in Alibaba now worth over $100B.

<comment><USER8> Planet money has a podcast episode on WeWork and Masayoshi: [https://www.npr.org/2019/10/04/767379358/episode-943-unicorn...](https://www.npr.org/2019/10/04/767379358/episode-943-unicorn- cowboy)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> What I don't understand is why Softbank didn't just buy the bonds and take control of the company during a restructuring. Would've been much cheaper, no need to pay Neumann anything.

<comment><USER5> Partly to probably save face on all of their other investments in the Vision Fund. They still have a number of other companies in their portfolio that they hope to one day take public, and compounding this disaster wouldn't be helpful to them

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> I'm confused as to why this is so terrible.

He created a very valuable company, worth billions of dollars. It makes sense that he should capture some large fraction of that wealth.

Yes, some people will lose their jobs. But it's worth noting that those jobs wouldn't have existed in the first place if he hadn't started the company.

His mismanagement has cost him and Softbank billions, which is appropriate as well.

I say this completely aware of what a shitshow WeWork is.

edit: For context this was a response to [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21325431](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21325431) but the mods detached it for... some reason?

<comment><USER11> >He created a very valuable company, worth billions of dollars

he created something that may very well lose its investors billions of dollars without ever turning a dime of profit. What the company is evaluated as on paper by people increasingly disconnected from reality isn't really meaningful.

I'm not really sure what the market function or social function is of rewarding people with billions of dollars who create money-losing machines. If anything it's an indication that some part of the system is increasingly broken.

<comment><USER10> Perhaps I'm just not seeing any real victims here.

Softbank and the Saudis wanted to roll the dice on some overpriced unicorns. They went into the deal with eyes open. And it looks like they're taking a massive haircut. Play stupid games...

I do feel sorry for some WeWork employees that will lose their jobs. But, again, many of them joined hoping to get some upside when the company went public -- which was a gamble that didn't pan out. Thankfully it's a good time to be on the job market.

<comment><USER12> Dude, come on. They have 15,000 employees. Most of them are going to lose their jobs. Those are the victims.

I agree I don't weep for Soft Bank or the Saudis, but plenty of people took jobs not just on the promise of IPO riches. And laying off a company of WeWork and its subsidiaries size is more than just a handful of people entering the job market — a market that isn't as good in every city, which is something to consider since We has quite a distributed workforce.

Edited: it is 15,000 people — not 12. And most of them will end up losing their jobs. That's a lot of people.

<comment><USER13> >which is something to consider since We has quite a distributed workforce

Wouldn't a distributed workforce mean a less impactful layoff for the employees? Much better to be part of a N,000 person layoff but one of only 200 people in your town then entering a local job market with all N,000 people at once.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> If you owe the bank $100, that's your problem. If you owe the (soft)bank $100 million, that's the bank's problem.

<comment><USER15> In the latter case you also kind of own the bank.</comment></comment>


How to Raise an Entrepreneur - <AUTHOR> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304066504576341222166546598.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

<comment><USER2> Let's be clear - the article is about raising a kid with the skills and capabilities of an entrepreneur. But be wary of targeting your child's future career path. That is a very dangerous game to play, as your kids need to be free to make their own path in the world, not follow your script.

I do not think being an entrepreneur is right for everyone. If everyone was cut out to do it, YC wouldn't need to question their applicants so carefully.

And as a parent, I don't want my child jumping down a path that doesn't match who they are, and therefore won't make them happy.

<comment><USER3> Did you read the article? While the headline is about raising an entrepreneur the advice is to raise adventurous and curious children and to provide stability and dependability. Hardly threatening ideals.

Sure- forcing your child down one path isn't right, but this advice is almost specifically not doing that. There's no 5 step plan involving a specific major or school or anything.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> When I lived in Bangkok, I met a couple of interesting people passing through via ASW. And a couple of them, when I told them I was running my own show because I COULD NOT STAND working for other people, and because I'd feel like an abject failure taking a 9-5 for the rest of my life, said that they'd found this was a common theme -

People who start out by themselves are often driven by an inability to be satisfied with a 9-5 other than some deeper nobler entreprenurial drive that people seem to fetishize...

<comment><USER5> Sorry... ASW? (Google isn't helping me either.)

<comment><USER4> <https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/ASmallWorld>

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> This article is devoid of any real content. Essentially they are saying that you need to be reasonably good parents.

Anyways, it happens that there is a brilliant talk by Cameron Herold at TEDx on the topic.

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCar_sFfEf4>

</comment><comment><USER7> Great article. I'm raising my grade school daughter on my own and I struggle to raise her to be adventurous and curious, and it seems to be working okay. She's been bugging me to "program a robotic dog" -- Mindstorm time?

Anyway, I'm disappointed one of the most interesting anecdotes was saved for the end. I'd like to hear more about how his mother grew her deceased husband's wholesale business and then sold it to a larger firm.

<comment><USER8> I really think that you should buy your daughter Lego Mindstorms. It changed me and taught me how to actually think. For a child seeing what's in your head flipping over on the ground is pure magic.

<comment><USER7> I will once I get some free $$$. Internships don't pay mindstorm money.

<comment><USER8> Can you please drop me a line? Maybe we can figure something out?

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> I agree on most of the tips, but believe they have missed a few. Find people (friends) that complement your own skills and personality. Teach your childre to try and fail quick, so they understand that faillure is a good thing.

</comment><comment><USER10> Interesting to contrast this advice with the approach of Amy "Tiger Mom" Chua ([http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405274870411150457605...](http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704111504576059713528698754.html)) who advocates strict routine and control and discourages imaginative thinking, participation in team sport and is horrified at anything less than an 'A'.

If she's truly representative of the way Chinese mothers raise their kids, I don't think America has anything to fear on the innovation front.

<comment><USER11> In the Chua discussion I heard many times that she's not representative of Chinese moms but of Chinese-American moms. Can't really verify that but it seems plausible.

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> I find the cartoon of the child behind the CEO desk at the top of a large building to be rather ironic given the article's contents.

</comment><comment><USER13> Interesting article and a well developed topic. As a latest survey says that Entrepreneurs Are Made, Not Born.</comment>