Show HN: uPanel – An admin template for commercial and OS projects - <AUTHOR> http://pixelcave.com/upanel

<comment><USER2> I clicked the 'No' button and got kicked out to Google. But... I'd still quite like a good admin template, but not as a PSD file. A PSD is entirely the wrong format. It's fine if you think people want _a picture_ of the template, but most will want the template itself eg the HTML.

Of course, that no longer includes me. I'll not be going back because the site essentially told me to &*^% off.

<comment><USER3> At least you know what is a "PSD". I don't. If only the site would tell me before I have to make a choice.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thank you for your feedback (my fault, I consider some things for granted sometimes)! PSD is a layered image file used in Adobe Photoshop. I have created a PSD file of the dashboard page as a design resource for people who are interested in uPanel :-)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> All these templates are starting to look alike after a while ;)

Heck, I found most of these on the first page of themeforest search results:

[http://heyflat.com/themes/heymetro/#/app/dashboard](http://heyflat.com/themes/heymetro/#/app/dashboard)

[http://yukon-admin.tzdthemes.com/app/#/](http://yukon- admin.tzdthemes.com/app/#/)

[http://www.freakpixels.com/portfolio/flatron/admin/](http://www.freakpixels.com/portfolio/flatron/admin/)

[http://iarouse.com/dist- flatify/v1.1/index.html#/dashboard](http://iarouse.com/dist- flatify/v1.1/index.html#/dashboard)

<comment><AUTHOR> Nice point :-) I'm an author on Themeforest and I can understand what you mean. Many templates may share a similar layout but look and feel, available layout options, available features, ready designed pages and code behind them, varies a lot. My goal with uPanel is to provide an admin template which can be used on open source projects, too ;-)

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> What an awful way to present a project. Not being able to scroll down to see the picture, I assumed that I was stuck until I made a choice regarding the PSD file. When I made the obvious choice, without being able to evaluate the product in any way, I got kicked to google.

Based entirely on the site it's "presented" on, it escapes me why anyone would buy your template, let alone sign up to a mailing list about it.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thank you for your feedback. I have already made a few adjustments on the page based on the overall feedback I received. The page is a teaser for the upcoming uPanel project. Eventually, a full landing page with all the features along with a live preview will follow once it is ready :-)

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> I understand you want to build your mailing list, but I'd expect this to happen when i try to download the fucking thing, not before being even able to check it out.

You dun goof'd, UX guy -- all the best

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for your feedback tcooks. uPanel is still a work in progress and it's not ready for download yet, I'm working on it! :-)

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> Really I want to be able to see more about the project before I know how interested I am in it. Being able to see half an image doesn't give me enough information to know what I feel about it, so I'm not inclined to sign-up. I just straight don't know if I'm interested or not.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for getting back with your feedback :-)

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> I found the site a little frustrating, and was not able to view the image. Clicked the image, tried to scroll, tried both CTA buttons. Still stymied ... how do I see the project?

<comment><AUTHOR> Thank you for your feedback :-)

As nsgf noted, I'm using the screenshot as a design element for this teaser page (uPanel is still WIP), a full page with all the features and live preview will come when uPanel is ready!

You can use the link litek posted to see the full image if you like :-)</comment></comment>


The Hidden Dangers of Linear Thinking in a Non-Linear World - <AUTHOR> http://www.thelowdownblog.com/2017/04/the-hidden-dangers-of-linear-thinking.html <comment><USER2> Generally speaking we have done a fairly decent job of not thinking too linearly. Eg. Moore's Law, Kurzweil's Accelerating Returns Law, Engelbart's Law...to name a few.</comment>


Pain. Or, Why Learning to Code is like Learning Chinese - <AUTHOR> http://savemefrombschool.com/2010/02/pain-or-why-learning-to-code-is-like-learning-chinese/ <comment><USER2> As a fellow chinese learner and coder I find this interesting, but I can't agree 100%. I think one of the troubles of learning chinese for a westerner is the difficulty in pronouncing it compared to pronouncing e.g. German. You can't just try to speak it, you need to learn about the tones and the very different sounds. When I started programming Basic as a kid you could just try stuff. You learned as you went. The entry barrier was quite low for someone that was computer literate. However, I find the entry barrier to learning Chinese to be quite high with the pronounciation and difficult characters. I should write a blog post like "Pain. Or, Why Learning to Code is like Learning German". But I must say the post resonates somewhat when I see beautiful Ruby or F# code.</comment>


Security Challenges in Microservice Implementations - <AUTHOR> http://container-solutions.com/security-challenges-in-microservice-implementations/ <comment><USER2> Nice article! Worth to read</comment>


How to fight mass surveillance even though Congress just reauthorized it - <AUTHOR> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/posteverything/wp/2018/01/25/how-to-fight-mass-surveillance-even-though-congress-just-reauthorized-it/ <comment><USER2> Shouldn't they reexamine mass surveillance processes and laws, you know, since the memo and stuff.</comment>


REST API Alternatives - <AUTHOR> http://blog.programmableweb.com/2013/12/19/is-rest-losing-its-flair-rest-api-alternatives-2/ <comment><USER2> A number of these points are not really a criticism of RESTful principles per se, but rather of typical REST over HTTP approaches.

 _1) Asynchronous APIs_

There's nothing about REST that says that operations must be performed synchronously. If a client updates a resource via a PATCH method and other services are notified of the update via a web hook or a message bus (possibly including the PATCH or the full resource), the system is still following a RESTful design.

 _2) Orchestration / Experience APIs_

A RESTful API does not need to require a separate GET for every individual resource. There's nothing wrong with implementing bulk queries that return variable projections of the server state tuned to the need of particular use cases.

Bulk modifications are trickier, especially when atomicity comes into play. But if atomicity is not a concern, then this is more of a transport problem, not a semantic one.

 _4) Binary protocols_

Plenty of RESTful APIs (e.g., Twitter[1]) provide data in a number of payload formats. Choice of wire format is unrelated to whether or not the semantics of the API are RESTful.

[1] [https://dev.twitter.com/docs/things-every-developer- should-k...](https://dev.twitter.com/docs/things-every-developer-should-know)

<comment><USER3> You probably never heard about these, but these are the best for Binary protocols. If you know something else, or better please post.

BEEP: [http://www.aspl.es/vortex/](http://www.aspl.es/vortex/)

BSON: [http://bsonspec.org/](http://bsonspec.org/) (Binary Json)

<comment><USER4> CBOR [0] is a proposed standard that seems much more efficient than BSON - check out the appendix [1].

[0] [http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7049](http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7049)

[1] [http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7049#appendix-E.6](http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7049#appendix-E.6)

<comment><USER3> checking out the rfc. cool, thanks!

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Answer: This isn't even applicable. REST is still a good tool that applies to many jobs, use it where it makes sense, don't use it where it doesn't.

Better title: "Is using REST for everything a bad idea perhaps?" Turns out that yes, yes it is.

<comment><USER6> > Better title: "Is using REST for everything a bad idea perhaps?" Turns out > that yes, yes it is.

For the vast majority of these uses, "REST" is a worthless and meaningless buzzword, so that's not a better title as the rise and fall of "REST" has nothing to do with it.

<comment><USER5> First of all, REST is pretty well-defined and is neither worthless, meaningless or a buzzword. Second of all, the rise and fall of REST doesn't have anything to do with the article either.

The entire article can be summarized as "At first we wanted to design pure things, but then we realized we need optimizations as well. Is this the dead of purity in design?" It just makes no sense at all.

<comment><USER6> > First of all, REST is pretty well-defined and is neither worthless, > meaningless or a buzzword

Reading comprehension, you definitely don't have it. I didn't say REST wasn't well-defined or was worthless, I said most of the uses of the acronym are as a worthless and meaningless buzzword, having very little to do with REST itself. That is a very different issue.

And since most of the uses of the "REST" acronym have little to do with actually RESTful system, the rise and fall of the buzzword has no relation with the rise and fall of RESTful system (which, objectively, have had very little rise in the first place)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> REST is not losing its flair, this article's four points focus on things that have mostly nothing to do with the huge bread and butter of web services, which is getting businesses to talk to each other and share data between entirely unrelated applications. #1 does not apply because these are simple data sharing services and async has nothing to do with it; #2 does not apply because these services are not internal; #3 does not apply because the other business you're talking to, RPC what? SDK-what? can I just send you my customer data in an XML file? #4 does not apply because see #3.

Then again, most "REST" as practiced for intra-business data is not really "REST" as far as purists would be concerned; while we at least do things like use HTTP error codes instead of an HTML page with "error" on it under a 200, I'd be laughed out of the conference room if I suggested our clients use a PUT instead of a POST. But who cares, as long as it's not SOAP.

<comment><USER8> Yeah. I've found a weird dichotomy in the general push to use "REST" for web APIs, but then certain aspects (true statelessness, for instance) are met with blank stares.

<comment><USER7> I get just as many blank stares when I'm presented with a client that is using SOAP (btw, I'd say 100% of SOAP shops are .NET shops at this point), but their SOAP message consists of a single-element datastructure, the single element containing an XML document which is the actual payload, and I try to say, "that's not really SOAP..."

<comment><USER9> I'll give this to .Net though, at least their wsdl files are complete enough to generate a .Net client from.. that's about all I will give it in that regard... I can't stand SOAP, it's too cumbersome, and even more verbose in transport.

Several times, in the past couple years, I've actually written internal translation services in node.js against public soap endpoints that I can more easily consume (usually in C#/.Net)

Also, I've seen a lot of SOAP written in Java as well... Though the couple of PHP "SOAP" services I've had to consume have been the worst by far.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Interesting that REST and JavaScript ended up in the same graph.

So I reckon the REST is dominating the field, SOAP is on the way out and JavaScript is the little upstart that could?

I don't think the person writing this article has any grasp on what REST actually is. If they knew they wouldn't be comparing it to the "Asynchronous APIs". I use asynchronous API's everyday. And some of them are RESTful and I prefer them over those that are not.

I keep trying to read the article and I have huge problems. I recognize the words, but I have no idea what the author is trying to say.

<comment><USER11> The async api bit is pretty off for a couple of reasons.

1\. REST is not inherently uni-directional. This is especially going to be the case in the internet of things, where you're just as likely to have servers on both ends. 2\. You can do server->client push with Server-Sent Events.

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> A link bait title with a graph that portrays REST growing faster than all other alternatives.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge's_law_of_headlines](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge's_law_of_headlines)

</comment><comment><USER13> If he's making the claim that "there are a number of initiatives, technologies and discussions that are starting to nibble at the crust of the de-facto standard that REST has become.", then surely he would have evidence of this claim?

To start with:

1\. Label your axis, that graph doesn't say anything.

2\. Maybe we should be looking at percentage change in the graph rather than whatever is being graphed here.

<comment><USER14> In context, the graph is intended to show the dominance of REST over time and not how it's losing out to any of the other items.

<comment><USER13> If that's the case, then his paragraph after the graph is not backed up with any data.

Instead, to me, it seems like he's trying to justify that statement with a poor microsoft office graph.

<comment><USER14> The graph shows old techs that currently serve as more-or-less substitute goods for REST. He's saying the four items listed below have a much smaller or even tiny but, as of recently, nonzero following.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> the place where REST over HTTP fails badly IMO is batch operations and deep operations. when creating multiple entities at once, you cannot get back multiple location headers. and even if you could get back several headers, you have to re-request each of them via http to get their contents. it obligates you to be needlessly chatty.

deep ops on multiple objects complicate things even further.

i feel like once you get outside the realm of basic document storage (which is what HTTP was designed for), REST via HTTP headers completely breaks down into custom hackery for which there are no standards.

<comment><USER16> Yes, totally. It is completely lacking any mechanism that allows collection- level operations. If you want to create a bunch of resources you have to abandon the supported headers and return a list of ETags in the body, removing any niceties the client would've given you for standard "REST" support. Same for the Content-Location that you mentioned.

<comment><USER17> In practice, I don't think that stops people from making REST APIs that PUT/POST lists of sub-documents that each have an embedded ID.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> Async is an important category that deserves better coverage. Fundamentally, REST and the alternatives (SOAP, etc.) are all RPC protocols. They may make use of the RPC nature of HTTP or maybe like XML-RPC they shove another RPC layer on top. A remote procedure call sounds like the simplest component of a remote api, but it is not. In RPC you make a request and wait for a reply.

But with async, you send a message and that is it. This can be implemented on top of HTTP RPC such as with Websockets, but the HTTP layer is unnecessary. Messaging using the AMQP protocol is a nice alternative. You can open a socket and hold it open for sending and receiving messages. When you send a message, it can be received by an MQ broker like RabbitMQ for guaranteed delivery to whatever internal service(s) need to process it. And when some kind of result needs to be sent back to the message originator, the socket is open and ready to receive it. For those things where the app needs RPC, it is simple to send a message and wait for a reply message. But when all you need is a notification going out, or coming in, that works too.

While MQTT and ZeroMQ and others could be used, it would be nicer if the Internet standardized on AMQP at a known port (just like HTTP) and even included the use of an MQ broker with all the optional services (topic queues, persistence, guaranteed delivery) that can be provided.

<comment><USER17> For lower volume "push" data, it would be nice if there were a convention in REST for how to request a subscription in which you provided the callback URL where the updates would be PUT.

Not that this scales as well as message service "topics" (with multiple subscribers/listeners), but it's a start, and doesn't sound much worse than the load for point-to-point queues.

<comment><USER19> This is basically the description of webhooks

<comment><USER17> Cool, thanks.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> All these are limited when you take a step back.

The concept of poking about with HTTP to try and treat it vaguely like a TCP style transport protocol is rather silly.

If you think about how "wordy" HTTP is, along with the standard RESTful verbs, you'll start to think "hmmm, perhaps this isn't the best way."

Websockets and if you must a bit of JSON (binary if done properly is lower latency and much more efficient) should be the way forward.

yes its a bit harder, but you know, its smaller, better, more efficient.

<comment><USER17> Depends: which is more precious: network bandwidth, or my development time.

High volume: custom-binary wins, just like you said. Low volume: REST/text wins.

There's something to be said for being able to try out your API in a web browser in 2 minutes. Compression also goes a way in reducing the volume of text, though not the latency of follow up queries that are too finely granular.

Small, sharp, tools swapping text is very unixy. Even if sometimes the response is a binary document :-)

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> This article just demonstrates the author's total lack of understanding of REST.

Let's start with asynchronous API. You can easily POST a request, get a new URL back, the just poll it until you get a result (returning 202 in the meantime). The simplest article explaining it can be found here:

[http://www.infoq.com/articles/webber-rest- workflow](http://www.infoq.com/articles/webber-rest-workflow)

It's not even that hard - almost every website that generates non-trivial reports does it somewhere. REST hides all the implementation details behind simple resources (URLs in the HTTP world).

Orchestation: Go look up SPARQL. Yes, the language itself isn't pretty, but it's proof that you can orchestrate some pretty complex reports if you like. As pcl notes, you can do it with simpler URLs too. It's all down to the web service.

For SDKs... they tend to be reserved for the nastier APIs (usually involving XML).

Binary protocols? Seriously? There are entire theses dedicated to the fact that HTTP was designed to deal with this stuff. Go read the documentation on HTTP Accept headers.

I'm not surprised there are badly designed HTTP interfaces out there; but criticising the architectural style itself based on your own lack of knowledge helps nobody.

</comment><comment><USER22> I'm having trouble understanding the continual claiming that REST is not asynchronous - which I guess means that REST is synchronous. Saying it once would be a typo, but several times and I start to feel there is a distinct difference of opinion between myself and the author as to what constitutes a Restful architecture.

<comment><USER23>
        A typical RESTful API:
        PUT new data to resource x/y/z

        An asynchronous non RESTful API:
        POST job information for resource x/y/z
        GET status of job for resource x/y/z until status is complete.
        GET results of job for resource x/y/z

<comment><USER24> It's all just relative though. If the resource is the job itself, then you have CRUD over REST for the job resource. The queue processing the job is a RESTful consumer as well, updating the job with information about the resulting new resource.

That is all RESTful. Whether or not its useful is a different question.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> The next big thing: noREST.

<comment><USER26> My money is on RESTless, which in the form of RESTless web syndrome can cause sleepless nights.

</comment></comment><comment> ryan-thompson I like to start with REST, I feel it's a great canvas, and a great way to think about what I am delivering. And if I can get the design to work within it's confines, then that's what I'll go with. It almost never ends up fully RESTful, and that's usually because the complexity required in the code would impact the maintainability. And to me maintainability is usually more important.

</comment><comment><USER27> I love that REST is popular and SOAP is not (bad memories of SOAP). These days web sockets make streams and the unix process model of command parameters, environment, input and output possible.

A good module that uses this philosophy is:

[https://github.com/substack/shoe](https://github.com/substack/shoe)

As with everything - pick the right tool for the job. It helps to have more rather than less tools.

</comment><comment><USER28> Utter linkbait.

</comment><comment><USER29> Its an OK article but I was really expecting to see some alternatives. I'm truly interested in something that compete with REST but was left wanting by the article.

<comment><USER30> I didn't think much of this article at all. I was expecting something possibly related to NetKernel or 9p, but was presented with... Thrift?

A more productive discussion might have started with Ext.Direct or Dojo RPC, but even those are just complementary channels, not alternatives.

</comment></comment><comment><USER31> Somewhat related question I've been meaning to ask. Why isn't xmlrpc more popular? At least in python it's incredibly easy to set up and to consume.

<comment><USER32> It depends what you mean by "popular", if you are talking about the number of XMLRPC service providers, then XMLRPC is far more popular as all wordpress installations have built in support for xmlrpc and are enabled by default.

</comment></comment><comment><USER33> I'm surprised this poor excuse for an article made it to the front page of HN!

</comment><comment><USER34> I'm still a huge fan I do apply the resource think to most stuff I build.

</comment><comment><USER35> its never been REST vs asynchronous Apis. You will probably use both in the same project for different usecases

</comment><comment><USER36> RESTful services still work in those situations where they are correctly applied. Maybe what has happened is some of the less mature and more shrill developers have stepped back from their war on any Web service that doesn't fit their dogmatic rest-tard view of the world. There are plenty of valid XML- RPC based services that continue to run well despite the whining that someone somewhere did not yet have a ruby gem to connect their ruby on fails site to it and that it was simply unacceptable - and so complain on twatter they must!

So in short - no, REST works, use it in the right places, and remember kids - not every Web service or endpoint has to expose a REST based interface.

<comment><USER17> Simple XML-RPC interfaces can be OK, and they often have real documentation available, since they are not assumed to be magic, and that documentation will be needed. (we use several of these from a few vendors at work, they were not problematic to set up)

I've experienced a lot of pain trying to get working clients generated and configured from some magic WSDL (SOAP interface definition file), though. For a supposedly self describing standard, each time I have had to write a client, it was very much an "interesting" adventure.

My gut tells me there are many "Web Services" consultants who do not like REST because it simplifies things to the point where they are out of a job :-)</comment></comment>


Ask HN: What can I build for you? - <AUTHOR> Hi HN, I'm currently working as a Professor in a local college where I teach Operating Systems and Distributed Computing courses. However, I'm kind of bored and would like to build a side project to try to earn something on the side.<p>So, what do you need? What can I build for you? I'm looking to build something like a SaaS, maybe an API.. What are some of your pain points? My target are probably other developers, or students, or other teachers, people that I can relate to.. <comment><USER2> Programming language

* self compiling compiler (self-hosting?).

* self interpreter interpreter (metacircular evaluator)

[from scratch. no parser generator or backends like LLVM, or tools like that, as they hide much info and insight]

Testing

* Fuzzer (for testing, e.g. programming language implementation)

<comment><AUTHOR> Looking for ideas for SaaS or to make some side money, but thanks!</comment></comment>


The W3C's Soul at Stake - <AUTHOR> http://www.fsf.org/blogs/rms/w3c-soul-at-stake

<comment><USER2> Making this as a battle is silly. For contractual reasons, companies need to distribute content with DRM. They _want_ to use a more open method than Flash or Silverlight.

The choice is between proprietary plugins with drm bundled, or a standard way of encrypting video streams.

Not letting it into HTML5 won't make content owners give up on DRM-- those deciding whether their content must be protected are almost certainly ignorant of the technical implementations.

Is it a battle if the other side doesn't even notice your action?

<comment><USER3> My concern is not (just) with respect to video streams. Introducing DRM in turn introduces an avenue for locking up content wholesale.

And, akin to mandated security backdoors, once a feature is introduced, it tends to be used not just as planned or anticipated but in every fashion someone can conceive.

For many concerned about the Web and the Internet, the malicious abuser in this case becomes private entities using such DRM channels to balkanize and privatize the Internet on a wholesale level.

[Aside: In writing the previous sentence, I experienced an interesting typo: "wholescale". I didn't immediately notice it, in part because it at a term makes a certain amount of sense, itself.]

Let's return to the video stream paradigm. Anecdotally, my streaming Netflix experience has, rather than becoming better with time and presumed advancement, instead become increasingly crap as content providers have declined to renew contracts in favor of their own separate distribution channels. As the consumer, I'm looking at 3,4, 5, and more separate accounts (each at at least circa $10/month, and sometimes significantly more) now in order to stream the same content.

I fear that with "ubiquitous DRM", combined with other changes happening in surveillance, legal prosecution, et al., we may be looking at the privatization of the public communication that has, to this point, made the Web and the Internet what they are.

TL;DR: I fear that integrated DRM gives entrenched parties too large of a stick to use in insisting: My way, or not at all.</comment></comment>


Google shows developers how to hack Glass and run Ubuntu  - <AUTHOR> http://tech2.in.com/news/linux/google-shows-developers-how-to-hack-glass-and-run-ubuntu/873620

<comment> k-mcgrady I've never been one to complain about Apple locking users into iOS and closed systems but the fact the author considers this 'open hardware' and news worthy worries me. Installing an alternative OS on any hardware shouldn't be a big deal, and it also shouldn't make it 'open'. Open means a lot more than having the ability to install the OS of your choosing.

<comment><USER2> _the fact the author considers this 'open hardware' and news worthy worries me_

I would say that it is news, and that it does deserve accolades. Very few consumer electronic devices allow the user to modify the software in any way outside of hacks that are actively prevented.

<comment><USER3> If not accolades, certainly encouragement: A big public "thank you," even if it might not immediately convince all companies everywhere to release API's and stop locking things down, might at least show that this is one good way to make at least some potential customers very happy.

Not a massive, business-changing boon, but perhaps worth it for tech (and other) companies that are or want to be close to their communities.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> This is very encouraging. The fact that not only this is possible quite effortlessly, but that they actually encourage this kind of customization drastically increases the likelihood of me buying this thing.

</comment><comment><USER5> I honestly just want the addon that will give everything Eight O'Clock in the Morning/They Live ad-replacements.

On a more serious note, I'm happy to hear that it's not Ubuntu-only. I removed my Linux training wheels a decade ago, so I'd hate to be restricted to a single distribution.

<comment><USER6> Love this quote: "I removed my Linux training wheels a decade ago, so I'd hate to be restricted to a single distribution." , I'm stealing it from you :)

<comment><USER5> I hear-by release that quote to the public domain with no attribution required.

<comment><USER6> Thank you, you are too kind good sir!

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Is this not old news? Flashing the bootloader with adb was always doable. Gaining root in the current OS still requires an exploit.

<comment><USER8> Well, there's hacking and then there's corporate-approved, "safe" hacking that doesn't ruin product integrity or violate marketing agreements, codicils, riders, add-ons, EULAs and respects the bottom line.

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> Google really knows how to please its developers. Twitter, Facebook, etc. need to take notes.

</comment><comment><USER10> This was a cool I/O session. One obvious use case they showed was to port Android apps to Glass.</comment>


Rate/review our startup - Web-based VoIP+Jabber IM - <AUTHOR> http://www.indafon.com

<comment><USER2> Also can you add a "test contact" like in skype? I am now logged in but have no idea whether its working or not :)

</comment><comment><USER3> The very first thing I see:

       Error
       You have to enable Cookies!

Convince the user. Why should I?

</comment><comment><USER2> Can I get an option to display rates in CAD or if not at least USD please?

</comment><comment><USER4> What does a cartoon cowboy with a bandoleer have to do with all of this?

<comment><USER5> It's a logo. What does an apple have to do with Apple Computers? Exactly.

<comment><USER6> The apple in apple computers is explainable. If your logo fit your name or a concept, then it would work, but as of now its just not connecting. otherwise, without signing up, I'd like to see the app in action with a tour vid or screen grabs.

<comment><AUTHOR> The cowboy is only the logo for our beta campaign: by sending out Wanted signs to your friends you may invite them in a funny way,and if he or she is signing up both of you get free minutes for calling.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> Sure! We'll have this opportunity in a few weeks.</comment>


Prolog Based Executable English - <AUTHOR> Prolog = Logic + different Control for each app<p>Executable English -- Logic + Built in control
    https://www.executable-english.com <comment><AUTHOR> * write data apps in _open_ English * specify apps without procedural programming * automatically generate and run complex SQL * Human level English explanations of results Live online at [https://www.executable-english.com](https://www.executable-english.com)</comment>


How to stop procrastinating by using the Fogg Behavior Model - <AUTHOR> https://www.deprocrastination.co/blog/how-to-stop-procrastinating-by-using-the-fogg-behavior-model <comment><USER2> Some time back, I read all I could on procrastination, and watched dozens of videos on it, and by far the best thing I found on it was this video by Tim Pychyl: [1]

It focuses particularly on procrastination in graduate school, but is widely applicable elsewhere.

One of the key insights that Pychyl, a psychologist who studies procrastination, had is that procrastination is not (as is commonly believed) a time management problem but a problem with managing negative emotions.

He has lots of really useful, practical tips for overcoming procrastination in the video, which I highly recommend.

[1] - [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhFQA998WiA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhFQA998WiA)

<comment><AUTHOR> Yes, Pychil's work is incorporated in our materials.

This is the recipe for procrastination (according to us):

1\. Think about a task - "I have to do _____."

2\. Have an automatic negative reaction

         2a. Negative thoughts - "I hate doing this,"...

         2b Negative feelings - Feeling stressed, afraid,...

3\. Procrastinate - Do something else to feel better.

Procrastination is all about escaping negative emotions.

Something makes you feel bad, you do something else to feel better.

Feeling better (reduced discomfort) is the short-term reward engaging in procrastination.

That's why procrastination can become addictive and automatic)

<comment><USER3> Sometimes when I am very emotionally upset or have a very negative task I want to avoid like studying, I will get the sudden urge to clean or work on a similar low-brainpower project (which is not something that comes naturally to me in normal times).

If I were merely trying to feel better I'd just go for video games or something like I normally do, but there must be something else going on that directs me to focus on simple and useful ways to feel better in the most extreme cases. It'd be nice to capture that in a bottle.

<comment><USER4> Feelings are complex. Personally, at any given time, I have two or three of sideprojects, videogames and TV shows I could focus on, each. But when I procrastinate, I end up reading HN or some subreddit or something similar, instead of coding my side projects or playing a game I've been waiting to play for the past year.

I've traced that to feelings of _guilt_. I can't enjoy a videogame if I feel I'm only using it to escape and make my situation worse. I can probably enjoy a TV show a bit, for a while, until my brain realizes that it's just an escape mechanism and I get more stressed. But social media in general, offer you a bite-sized escape. There's nothing wrong in taking 2 minutes break to skim comments on a HN thread, or scroll through some funny pictures somewhere. 2 more minutes won't make a difference either. 2 more? And suddenly it's been 5 hours.

So in the end, I don't do the things I have to, and I also don't do the things I _want to_ \- all because negative emotions.

(Part of my solution to this problem was just blocking certain sites (like HN) on the router during work hours.)

<comment><USER5> I'm kind of wondering if it's the brain's way of saying you should talk your problem over with other people. And HN is a sort of maladaptive (for various reasons) version of that.

<comment><USER4> Seeking counseling on HN is definitely a recurring trend here, one I've been guilty of too at times, so you may be onto something here!

<comment><USER5> Oh that's not what I meant, I was thinking of discussing something completely different, or only tangentially related. When you should be seeking counseling.

<comment><USER4> I misunderstood you, sorry. And yes, I agree with your clarified point too - that definitely happens for me, and I'd guess for a lot of us here. I'm not ashamed to admit that HN discussions satisfy the same needs as meatspace socializing, even if they're doing it the way McDonald's satisfies hunger.

HN is really the worst. With other sites I visit, I can at least honestly say it's a pure waste of time. But here, every couple weeks I'll find something that solves a tough problem I have; every year or two I find something career- altering. If I were to integrate ((value I get from HN) - (opportunity cost of time spent here)), I'm not sure whether it's even negative. My monkey brain definitely feels it's positive (magic of temporal discounting). If I spent this time on other things, maybe I'd be running a space company now. Or maybe I'd be depressed and stuck doing PHP for ridiculously low salaries.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> It's clearly not the case for everyone, but I struggled for an extended period of time with a few things in my personal and professional life:

1\. Remarkable focus in topics which interest me and remarkable lack of focus in topics which do not.

2\. Leaving "must do" tasks in areas of little interest until the very last moment, resulting in a predictable lack of excellence in execution.

3\. Periodic deep dives into topics which go beyond the aforementioned "areas of interest".

4\. Driven by a motor in meetings: itching to get up and walk around as we talk, feeling more comfortable with any kind of low level motor action happening concurrently to my thinking and speaking. Also led to me leaping to the end of a person's sentence and others experiencing me as highly impatient / excitable at times.

5\. The need to have a TV show or other media playing as I fall asleep. Ideally something I've seen before and which is enjoyable but not too engrossing. Almost like one of the cores in my processor couldn't be idle — it actually made it hard to sleep. (Conversely I always fell asleep watching films with my partner.)

6\. Various odd elements of disorganisation — never at work but eg. losing my keys and documents.

If you're reading this and hearing elements of your own experience, and in particular if this is familiar to you from childhood ("Why can't you apply yourself to X like you do Y?!") then I would encourage you to speak to a serious psychiatrist about the possibility that you have ADHD.

Not everyone has it and I accept that many are probably misdiagnosed with it. My experience of clicking every link on HN with hacks for focusing and not procrastinating was actually a very sad one and I didn't realise how profoundly it had affected me until I sat in the office of a psychiatrist and he rattled off a range of specific experiences he wagered I had had during my life.

It's been a remarkable process for me of feeling emotional relief as well as receiving medication which improves my life.

Again if you're looking for a productivity hack you do not need to consider that you have any sort of chemical disregulation, but I did not consider the possibility of a medical condition and found myself often in rabbit holes of productivity hacks feeling deeply unproductive.

<comment> non-entity Ok serious question: Every one of these points is very applicable to me, especially 1,2 and 3.

I haven't been to a doctor in years outside occasional emergency trips. How do you bring this up without seriously. I don't want to come off as the guy who compulsively self diagnoses based off what they read on the internet.

<comment><USER7> No problem, serious answer:

This is the DSMV criteria: [https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/diagnosis.html](https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/diagnosis.html)

Doctors are typically screening with a quiz that looks something like this: [https://psychcentral.com/quizzes/adhd- quiz/](https://psychcentral.com/quizzes/adhd-quiz/)

It's perfectly reasonable to say "I think I may have ADHD based on what I've read online, my symptoms match and people who know me have suggested I try adderall".

Some doctors are fine with letting everyone have stimulants, because they're pretty harmless unless you're really binging on them, and they won't give you enough to do that for very long.

Other doctors would prefer to put you on an SSRI or SNRI or wellbutrin or some other "non-addictive" medication (which ironically are more addictive, dangerous, and less effective), so avoid those IMO. You may have to shop around a bit, but your primary care doctor technically can write the prescription, but some prefer not to and you might need to find a specialist.

Contraindications for stimulants are if the patient has a history of heart conditions, complains about racing heart rate, excessive sweating, trouble sleeping, trouble eating, etc.

You generally want to start with a low dose of "instant release" as opposed to "extended release" pills, so you can have more fine grained control over the dose. IR pills can be broken in half, XR cannot. Some doctors are more nervous about IR than XR because they think it has more abuse potential (not true, but it's a common belief).

With all that said, stimulants _will_ fix the problems OP described, but don't mistake that for a pleasant experience. The truth is that amphetamines are extremely mentally exhausting, and if you don't take good care of yourself (planning proper meals, staying hydrated, resting at appropriate times, not taking more pills when you shouldn't), you can quickly spiral out of control. It's hard to explain to someone that doesn't do drugs, but stimulants can leave you feeling like a shell of yourself, and it's really disconcerting. It's sort of like being over-tired where you're awake but your judgment is clearly impaired and you don't feel like "you". If you stay on them long enough, you'll start to feel like a zombie just going through the motions (successfully, mind you), but without identity. I make sure to take weekends off to preserve their efficacy for the work week and to make sure I don't become too dependent.

I'd 100% recommend having stimulants in your toolkit, and chances are you're already supplementing with worse stimulants (like mountains of coffee or soda), so do give them a try, but be careful.

<comment><USER8> I know it's splitting a hair but I didn't find Effexor addictive. The withdrawal symptoms are terrible. But they motivate you to kill yourself, not take another pill. I never wanted to take two pills or increase my frequency. I would often forget to take one. So I don't consider it addictive. For reference, I've been addicted to cigarettes and alcohol before.

<comment><USER9> I think that is what is being said. Effexor is not addictive in the 'traditional' sense addictive drugs are, but you're brain and body become dependent on them in ways you don't realize until you're trying to come off of them. And because it is a process to find the right medication, you don't want to be starting and stopping those kinds of medications over and over. A stimulant may be seen as more addictive (due to the potential for abuse / dopamine release), but starting Ritalin then switching to adderall, then say vyvanse, is a less invasive process than starting Effexor then coming off and switching to Wellbutrin etc

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> For things that I don't have the motivation to do (things I procrastinate), my strategy is to start doing the smallest possible unit of that thing as I can.

Recently I started meditating, something I've tried to get into, but never have. I downloaded this app Balance which encourages daily practice (reminders, 3,5,10 guided meditations, etc). I am still not "motivated" to do it, but I don't need to be because it is just part of my schedule.

The reason I say this is that I feel like "building motivation" is kind of the wrong attitude. You won't like everything that you do (go to the gym, pay your bills, etc), but building a repeatable habit makes it so you don't need to feel motivated. This might be a nitpick, but the big change in thinking for me was around not having to be motivated to do something.

<comment><USER11> I agree - in my experience, "motivation" is a wildly volatile concept, especially in how a) when it arrives to your thought process, it's usually in the form of bemoaning a _lack_ of motivation, and semi-consequently b) one almost always thinks about "motivation" in a form that is highly moralized (i.e. inviting shame & co.). I find that usually when we employ "motivation" as a concept, it is usually (whether explicitly or latently) in the context of personal failing.

The most success I've had in actively dealing with things like this is when I am able to frame a situation for myself in an extra-moral way and actually believe it - i.e. that something is, like you said, a matter of habit-building and consistency, rather than ontological and exertional good-enough-ness. The tough part here is that many people understand this, cerebrally, but it takes drilling this perspective quite a lot to actually ingrain it into one's belief system.

There's a night and day difference, though, between "well I guess I couldn't do it after all" and "well I guess that's a one-day blip on a four-day streak", and people with 'motivational' difficulties also aren't that great at conceptualizing about & nurturing incremental progress towards an abstract goal, which this also helps immensely with.

All in all I love that your takeaway was, effectively, that 'motivation' can be seen as behavioral inertia that hasn't yet been solved by habit-training. It's not a poetic nitpick at all; at least in my view it's the fundamental operative basis for dealing with the phenomenon of procrastination.

<comment><USER12> Made an account just so I can thank you for this comment. You have done an amazing job of illustrating the problem of thinking of things in terms of motivation as well as moralizing it.

I'm going through a major depressive / procrastination episode. And now i'm asking myself, why can't I just apply the same thinking and approach I use for exercise and diet to the rest of my life. (I.E. it's just something I do, a habit I build on.). Epiphany for me. :)

<comment><USER11> I had made an account just to post it! It's warming as hell to know it could help give you a workable verbal framework.

This way of thinking isn't (yet?) /always/ something I'm able to just root myself in, down to the autonomic depths of my lizard-brain or whatever, and I definitely still slip into moments or swathes of variations on, "I am in some way fundamentally wrong/insufficient".

So, sure, it's not a panacea that lets you evade depressive troughs completely, BUT it lets you go through those with a supervisory lens that says, "was that thought/attitude/self-perception unambiguously extra-moral? no? then it's not real; it's just a shame narrative; carry on". That's MORE than enough for a shit-ton of cumulative and lasting progress.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> The human mind is far more complex than a lot of these models or frameworks suggest. A model or a framework can mean any structured representation, but I am explicitly talking about the market of psychological frameworks. The 'supply' of that market consists of pretty bad models that do more harm than good (e.g. Mindset by Carol Dweck, CBT, Fogg Behavior Model, or anything based on behaviorism). I don't recall fully, but 'The Mind' by Andre Kukla has a great exposition on this.

What I recommend for people is directly observing your mind with autonomy. Or if you don't feel like observing your mind, following your impulses, whether it's 'bad' or not. This kind of self-exploration is the only real way out, especially when most times people attempting to help (sadly) impose upon rather than liberate people's minds.

<comment><USER14> Why are growth mindsets bad? Challenging yourself seems pretty common sense no, the idea that you _can_ get there.

<comment><USER15> The big problem with growth mindset isn't the mindset itself, it's the theoretical framework and the broader milieu surrounding it. It would be one thing if the concept were simply put forward as a way of framing and thinking about certain differences in how people learn in certain contexts. But there's apparently now a faction of education experts who have decided that growth mindset is Right and fixed mindset is Wrong, and so we're failing children if we don't "educate" them into having a growth mindset. Even if that means totally ignoring their lived experience and making them fill in a bunch of worksheets that are basically just "Goofus and Gallant" for beliefs instead of actions.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> I have this constant feeling that some post on HN will motivate me more, or just teach me to be less of a procrastinator. That's the reason I check HN frequently, and click on these kinds of links. Then I see the post is too long, and scroll-skim it. Nothing really changes about procrastination; we don't do shit until some other shit is on fire.

<comment><AUTHOR> Check out the browser extension on our site! That might help, if an article won't.

I used to check Twitter 100-150 times a day, but with the use of the extension, I got it under 20 times. Try the Focus Zones feature. Try it, let me know if it works. I'll give you 3 months of Pro features for free if you shoot me an email.

<comment><USER17> What's your site?

<comment><AUTHOR> The one with the article linked in the original post.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> You can read the paper itself [0]. It was originally introduced as a behavior model for persuasive design, later on has become quite popular in self-help field.

To summarize, it states:

"The FBM asserts that for a person to perform a target behavior, he or she must (1) be sufficiently motivated, (2) have the ability to perform the behavior, and (3) be triggered to perform the behavior."

The author then makes the case that since any attempts to modify the motivation level of an agent is hard and often fails, one can focus on modifying the ability of a task, thus making it easier for the agent to perform.

Let's say you want to start flossing your teeth, following the FBM, you can modify the required ability to perform the task by saying "I only need to floss one tooth." By doing so, you compensate for your low motivation and increase the likelihood of doing it.

[0]: [https://captology.stanford.edu/wp- content/uploads/2010/11/Be...](https://captology.stanford.edu/wp- content/uploads/2010/11/Behavior-Model-for-Persuasive-Design.pdf)

<comment><USER19> You have to select a random different tooth every day though.

<comment><USER20> Or just repeat the small task 26 times

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> When you get decently good at one thing you discover there are no recipes. There exists an infinite possible issues that can disrupt a working system and applying a few canned solutions is lottery.

If you are looking at issues as a linear scale, for example a bolt from too tight or too lose, "making sure all your bolts are tight" (common tutorial type of advice) is not a very good thing.

Similarly, "how to stop procrastination". First thing I would ask somebody who would come with this to me in my field is "why do you want to stop, what are you actually trying to achieve?". Is the customer sure he should stop? Maybe he is overworked, maybe his job sucks, and solving procrastination would actually make his life worse. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XY_problem](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XY_problem) This is just one example of the many questions that should be asked before offering solutions.

<comment><AUTHOR> That's what we do in 1-on-1 coaching in our program, but it's somewhat hard to do that in an article.

</comment></comment><comment><USER22> What if procrastination was the simple act of postponing something just because... _you can_. Erase the 9-5, the arbitrary deadlines, the impossible requests of a boss, a client or a partner. Poof! Procrastination conceptually ceases to exist.

It's _ok_ to do nothing for 2 days and then put in 12 hours straight of purely productive coding, if you are not supposed to follow a specific timetable.

It's _ok_ to be a few days late on a deadline if that deadline has no reason to exist (which, let's be honest, most don't).

It's _ok_ to spend a few weeks on a project then abandon it for a few weeks only to rediscover the joy of working on it afterwards if there is nobody constantly asking "is it ready yet?".

Because, let's face it, nobody in their right mind procrastinates if their livelihood is on the line or if it means letting someone down. We only procrastinate when we can. And if it gets so bad that you just can't get around to doing something, no matter how hard you try, congratulations! You've just found something you hate doing :)

What if it was all that simple?

<comment><USER23> I don't think that is the case for many people, myself included. There are two sides to this not being the best way to think of it for some:

\- slipping on deadlines becomes cumulative and does affect your career or business; the more work that is delayed, the most difficult it seems to be to ever catch up

\- there is a fast-approaching deadline for all of us, and I don't want to look back on what may be my last decade of high productivity and realize I spent most of it on Netflix and Steam

As said by others, procrastination is often a symptom of negative visualization of a task; if you can train yourself to drop the fixation of a task being unpleasant, you can overcome most procrastination.

That has worked for me; now, when I miss deadlines, it's more due to overestimating my energy than falling victim to my own procrastination.

<comment><USER22> What if you framed those 2 problems (having to catch up and not wanting to realize you watched too much Netflix) as self imposed goals? Then you'd have to answer the question: why do you feel the need to catch up (unless not catching up leads to consequences that would make you feel even worse and from which you cannot recover)? Why do you feel like spending most of the time on Netflix or Steam is a waste of time?

What if the need to set an arbitrary goal and the need to achieve it were just a way to cope with the fact that we are not genuinely interested in having any (at the moment)? And what's wrong with that?

<comment><USER23> I personally don't feel contentment can come without some form of productivity, not that it has to be a traditional concept of work. I think not having goals is a breeding ground for discontent and depression.

But like everything else, it often depends on personal experience.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> This post just seems to be to draw semi-sensational attention to a self-help book. The site isn't generally referencing primary sources or otherwise giving signals of why it should be trusted. It also doesn't identify the authors.

It's hard to take the site seriously when it equates gaming to being an alcoholic (while later in the same post backpedaling it): [https://www.deprocrastination.co/blog/should-i-quit-video- ga...](https://www.deprocrastination.co/blog/should-i-quit-video-games)

<comment><AUTHOR> We'll you got a point. We could link to primary sources more often and add our faces to more places.

Also: we equate gaming addiction (addiction being the key word) to alcoholism, not gaming as such.

Have a great day!

</comment></comment><comment><USER25> Yes, every website returning "application error" is one less chance for procrastination. However, since it is rather hard convincing everyone to break their website for me, I'll continue using a browser extension to keep me from procrastinating. ;)

<comment><AUTHOR> Working on that error. Sorry about that.

</comment></comment><comment><USER26> The Trigger one really resonated with me. I've been desperately struggling with getting tasks done - I thought it was Motivation mostly (and a good deal of the issue is, quarantine is sucking my energy). But when I think back to all the times I was successful, it was the presence of good triggers.

For example, I did a coding bootcamp, and it was the most productive part of my life, because in my opinion of the powerful triggers. I show up, I do a coding challenge. Every day. That's how it worked. Then at 9:30 or whatever there's a lecture. I go to it and I take notes. Then there's a pair programming excercise... etc. All I had to do was plug myself into the schedule, and the motivation and ability basically came for free. It was a sort of freedom - sorry brain, we don't really have a say in this, gotta follow the schedule.

Recently I've been struggling to work out as frequently as I did when I was working. Before, I'd bicycle to the gym, and then go from there to the office. Obviously right now that wasn't happening - but functionally I had _more_ time to work out now. I have _more_ freedom, so why am I working out less? Then I talked to a therapist about depression etc, and she said "well before we can do anything else, you need to start working out again. 30 mins cardio a day, elevated heart rate and sweating." Suddenly it was easy. Suddenly it was like Freedom again. Sorry brain, we gotta just run, doctor's orders.

Interestingly, for the first time in my life (big weightlifter, never a big cardio guy), I could do a 30 minute run without stopping. Sure, a pace of 11.5 minute mile, but before I couldn't even do 20 minutes without interspersing walking (about 12.5 or 13 min mile for a 2 mile run). But day 1 after doctor's orders, I just did it? It's completely fascinating. I obviously always had the ability, the restriction was entirely mental.

So I really like how this author put the Trigger into words. It reflects my own personal experience.

<comment><AUTHOR> Happy to articulate it for you!

Without a trigger (also called a prompt), there is no behavior. We need someone (ourselves, others) or something (alarm, calendar) to take action.

</comment></comment><comment><USER27> For me, the main cause of procrastination was lack of clarity on what needs to be done.

I've found that following a rigorous brain-dump process makes a big difference.

For my brain-dumps, I start by jotting down a list of everything I can think of that's related to my task. I let ideas flow freely.

Then I scan through what I've written and check if there's anything that's not specific and actionable. If so, I zoom in and do another brain-dump on that task. I repeat until I have only very specific items

[https://www.indiehackers.com/post/the-root-cause-of- procrast...](https://www.indiehackers.com/post/the-root-cause-of- procrastination-0c37b8d650)

<comment><AUTHOR> Yeah! Brain dumps are a great tool.

</comment></comment><comment><USER28> I think this is in general quite insightful, but I want to pick one nit (in reaction to "A professor doesn't tell you when to..."): having advised a number of PhD students (in applied math), I think one of the most important parts of the job of an advisor is to coach. That is, help students make decisions, set timelines, figure out when to do what. Most students who get this far are capable of solving well-posed, textbook-sized technical problems. What they have trouble with is how to break a big problem into smaller ones, which of the smaller problems to solve, in what order, how to prioritize, where to compromise, etc. Good advisors help beginning students do this. (Not that I'm good at this -- I've certainly learned this the hard way over the years; just hoping the students didn't suffer too much as a result.)

<comment><USER29> My biggest problem is writing/presenting efficiently. Usually I spend several hours on a single paragraph or beamer slide. Today I spend all my time preparing my defense presentation (besides social media), but only made drafts for two slides.

And my advisor is also very busy. He says he will write the introduction for a paper and then finds no time to finish it

<comment><USER28> The making of slides (or sentences in a paper) gets easier with practice. The advisor or collaborator or you yourself being too busy is, unfortunately, not something that gets better with time. The most important thing is learning to say "no" to new responsibilities without becoming an irresponsible member of whatever organization (university, research lab, etc) you find yourself in. It's a balancing act.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER30> Fogg has some good thoughts on positive behavior change. James Clear, who wrote Tiny Habits, is another good person in this space who writes reasonable stuff.

Self-plug for an overview on research into the habit formation literature that I recently cleaned up. Covers many evidence-backed interventions (of varying quality) for habit formation and removal.

[https://mlu.red/52436366310.html](https://mlu.red/52436366310.html)

<comment><USER31> Just a small clarification "Atomic Habits" is the name of the book written by James Clear.

Also, Tiny Habits is another book which also discusses the same space.

<comment><USER30> Yeah, my bad. I mis-remembered. Thanks for clarifying!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER32> I find concepts like "procastination" problematic, including associated ones in the comments like "resolve", "discipline", and separately, "weak will".

Take the case of "resolving" to watch just one episode of your favorite TV show after dinner. You then end up binge-watching three episodes. Why is this a case of "weak will" when it is simpler to explain it as a change of mind? After all, there is "new data" post the first episode; maybe an increased curiosity into what happens next, or still feeling wide awake.

The idea of "free will" is well motivated. I am not so sure about "weak will" etc.

Is there some other way to characterize the applicable cases?

</comment><comment><USER33> There is nothing can stop procrastinating but only if we do things we love. I remember being passionate about little electronics projects when I was young, I would spend 10+ hours per day without getting bored. Now if In need to do anything I will find something to postpone or do it half assed while doing something else at the same time.

Do something you love and wouldn't get bored of. Like gardening or something. Something simple. When there are more parts and added steps in the process (like a web app) you will eventually stop doing it because of the complexity.

<comment> non-entity The problem is I spend 8+ hours a day doing something I don't care about and by the time I can work on the things I love I'm mentally exhausted and just sleep for hours.

<comment><USER34> See my other comment in this thread. I think the model's lack of consideration for "mental exhaustion" means it's incomplete.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER35> I'd add removing inner resistance, which could be expanded under motivation in the formula. Increasing motivation isn't simply an additive process — you can introspect on the things limiting your motivation, eg. fear of failure, and address them. After that, you have more cognitive space, and a difficult task might suddenly seem much more tractable. It's about letting go of the thoughts/emotions holding you back. In my experience, tackling this has been most rewarding, not to say the practices in the article don't help.

<comment><AUTHOR> True.

I think that could fall under "improving ability" in the Fogg model.

</comment></comment><comment><USER36> I have an a bit different approach: Just stop this "self-optimization" bs and start being a human with all his flaws and failures. I think if you tinker to much with yourself and your flaws you are in danger of loosing yourself and become some sort of machine.

</comment><comment><USER37> I generally disagree with these kinds of models. Not because motivation, triggers, etc. aren't real things, but because they couch the problem as being either outside of us, or quasi-genetic (ADHD, etc.), instead of a choice that we make and own.

Taking action has varying degrees of difficulty for every person. The factors are numerous. But in history, in life, in every scenario I've _ever_ read or studied or watched, there's only one factor that matters: regardless of conditions, health, limitations, weather, whatever-- _the person made a decision and took action, over and over_. In my experience, it's as boring as that. No mental hack, no shortcut--decision and action.

Sure, you can work on 'clearing obstacles' to getting things done--mental models, physical problems, whatever--but you don't wait for this to be 'solved'. You have to act. And do it again until you're done.

<comment><USER38> So your solution to procrastination is to just take action?

I've got ADHD, and sometimes I feel like telling ADHD people to "just do it" is like telling a depressed person to "just be happy". It might work great for you, but for many that just doesn't work.

I get your point, and sometimes I can psych myself up enough to do something with the "just do it" mentality, but sometimes that doesn't work, and articles like this can help me understand why and how to fix it.

<comment><USER6> > I feel like telling ADHD people to "just do it" is like telling a depressed > person to "just be happy"

That is _literally_ what it is like. You are asking someone with a neurodevelopmental disorder which results in disregulation of various brain functions to behave like a person WITHOUT a neurodevelopmental disorder which results in disregulation of various brain functions. The person literally cannot.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER39> If motivation and ability are both already there, I usually find the easiest way to move past procrastination is to choose a small-mid sized task and set a 15 minute timer.

Committing to working on that task for 15 mins, even if I really dont feel like it, is usually enough to get the ball rolling.

<comment><AUTHOR> Yeah, it's a simple technique that we also recommend. Our extension has a timer for that reason.

</comment></comment><comment><USER40> Thank you. Will read this later.

<comment><AUTHOR> Not sure if this is a classic procrastination joke or a promise, but either way, please do :)

<comment><USER40> :) yes

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER41> Thanks.

This sounds like it might be useful. I'd seen the motivation equation before, but hadn't seen ability, cue.

In general, I like to think that a lot of common problems are easier to solve than to identify. I suspect a tough part of this is recognising when you're procrastinating.

I think the form of procrastination I encounter the most is the "lack of action from a lack of a cue". \-- With programming, if there's some significant delay in getting feedback (build takes too long, tests take too long), I'll get distracted by other things without getting back into it.

</comment><comment><USER42> There's a great book called the Procrastination Equation that addresses this, and offers a different equation than Fogg.

Motivation = (Expectancy + Value) / (Impulsiveness + Delay)

It's useful to know what each of those terms means.

Your motivation is for a specific task or goal.

Expectancy is your confidence that you can complete a task or reach the goal.

Value is the importance you assign to the goal.

Impulsiveness is how distractable you are, or your susceptibility to other interesting things that you might do instead of working toward the goal (like writing comments on HN! ;).

Delay is the amount of time you have until the task should be completed.

The more distractable you are, and the more time until you hit your deadline, the less motivation you have.

The more confidence you have in your ability to complete the task, and the more importance you assign to it (eg this is life or death), the more motivated you are.

Cedric Chin has a nice overview here:

[https://commoncog.com/blog/a-user-review-of-the- procrastinat...](https://commoncog.com/blog/a-user-review-of-the- procrastination-equation/)

</comment><comment><USER43> I have started subscribing to the believe that it is not about motivation, it's about discipline. There is only so much you can do to motivate yourself to do a tedious or onerous task. But if you have discipline, you don't need the motivation.

I still struggle a lot with procrastination, but I find this reframing to be helpful.

<comment><USER44> I think one issue with discipline is that there's a value judgement attached, so that when I procrastinate, I'm an undisciplined slob, I feel worse, more procrastination, spiral.

As you said, having discipline reframed into triggers and motivation allows more objective reasoning. You do the task because you have a well created system of triggers that you follow regularly because you know the _why_ of what you're doing at a big picture level. If I procrastinate, it means my system or my why isn't working for me, and I need to reevaluate.

</comment></comment><comment><USER45> If curious see also

5 months ago [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22391288](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22391288)

2010 [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1510871](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1510871)

</comment><comment><USER46> Have I mentioned how I dislike the use of "mental model" for this type of post?

Or how X=Y+Z is misleading (set Z to zero, and you still have X). From post: " Behavior = motivation + ability + trigger...

According to FBM, there are three things we need to do something:

        Motivation
        Ability
        Trigger"

No, addition doesn't mean "You need all three". Multiplication does. B=M _A_ T.

AND = multiply

OR = add.

<comment><AUTHOR> Good catch, will change it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER47> I've been procrastinating to read this article for a while. Realizing THAT was good enough motivation for me to read the article through.

</comment><comment><USER48> Clicked through fully expecting a treatment of the _Plileas_ Fogg model, i.e. place your bet, then without further ado set off on your journey around the globe that very same evening, i.e. Just Do It.

Which is propably, all told, more useful advise than any number of overthought musings and bullet lists and schematics to bury myself in before actually, you know, doing it.

<comment><AUTHOR> That might also be a fun short article.

Imo, the Fogg Behavior Model is not overthought. It can be explained in 2 minutes and yield immediately applicable insights ("Oh, I need a trigger"), I recommend reading Tiny Habits for more nuance on this.

</comment></comment><comment><USER49> I'm missing the "trigger" piece of this since remote work kicked in. Any tips for effective work triggers when wfh are much appreciated. I've tried the common ones - designated work area, set schedule etc but I end up spending all day (apart from mtgs) surfing the web instead! ugh... I thought I mastered this in grad school

</comment><comment><USER50> This is nicely summarized. Bookmarking as a resource for helping team members who are new to relatively unstructured work. Thanks.

<comment><AUTHOR> Awesome! Happy to help

</comment></comment><comment><USER51> I tried Fogg's Tiny Habits once. The basic idea is that the easiest way to begin building up a habit is to start with a behavior that you have no resistance to.

Its basically a sound idea, but its an oversimplification. I am not sure what his "behaviour model" is but I assume it evolved from his previous work.

</comment><comment> amar-laksh I went ahead and created a very simple yet effective excel sheet based on the blog. [https://github.com/amar- laksh/FBM/blob/master/FBM.xlsx](https://github.com/amar- laksh/FBM/blob/master/FBM.xlsx)

</comment><comment><USER52> When I break problems down into smaller pieces I seem to often not finish the work. Then I'll be frustrated, because I put in all that work with nothing to show for it. If I had procrastinated instead, I could've at least done something more enjoyable. Are there any solutions for that?

</comment><comment><USER53> Added to the reading list for later.

</comment><comment><USER54> I can develop habits by working on them a piece by piece. But even after having developed the habit in 3-4 months I usually end up dropping them. One such habit is exercising. I can't figure out what might possibly be wrong.

</comment><comment><USER55> I'm not sure what the X's in the headings are supposed to mean.

<comment><USER41> Could be replaced with "Deficient". "Motivation-deficient Procrastination", "Ability-deficient Procrastination" and "Trigger-deficient Procrastination".

</comment></comment><comment><USER56> that's a nice website. pls add a page to tabulate the differences among the three paid plans listed there: essentials vs producer vs high-performer .

</comment><comment><USER57> Currently trying to find a good reason for doing laundry.

</comment><comment><USER58> Some libraries are clearly better than others, what we need is a better rating system to differentiate the good ones from the bad.

</comment><comment><USER59> Does anyone here have solid resources on this topic in german language ?

</comment><comment><USER60> Sounds interesting but I'm going to have to read this later...

</comment><comment><USER61> This is a nice read and a useful, practical model. Thank you!

<comment><AUTHOR> Happy to help!

</comment></comment><comment><USER62> Procrastination is the _intentional_ avoidance or delay of a task. I have ADHD and assumed I was procrastinating a lot. Nope. These type of models never worked for me.

</comment><comment><USER63> I'll check this out later. Sounds promising.

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> Sorry, it will be up in a moment!

</comment><comment><USER64> "Application error" helped with my procrastination. I thought, I'll come back later.

<comment><AUTHOR> It's back up! Try again and see if it actually helps.

</comment></comment><comment><USER65> tl;dr: someone who can pay for a coach, or a grad student to keep him company, etc... has only two obstacles to overcoming endeavors instead of three.

</comment><comment><USER66> Oh cool, so basically this is about finding a way to cheat your brain into doing things it doesn't want to do. Maybe a good approach would be to find something you actually like to do instead and reflect on your choices and priorities in life?

It's amusing that you need a professor to tell you how to convince yourself that your life doesn't suck. A more natural approach might be to change what you are trying to do in the first place...

Guess what, the brain was not made to earn money.

<comment><USER67> Yup. I mean we do have to make money, and deal with the administrative complexities of modern life, and we should find strategies to cope with that. At the same time though, our brains are not somehow defective or lazy for wanting to do more interesting stuff.

</comment></comment><comment><USER68> Love this! My favorite is the Simple Timeline. Definitely a deadline helps me. Also keeping tasks simple and completing them step by step is better than taking on huge tasks all at once. If I feel overwhelmed my motivation declines.

</comment><comment><USER69> overly complicated.

Nike Behavior model is easier: just do it.

<comment> blaser-waffle Doctor: "don't be sad."

Patient: "thanks I never thought of that. i am cured."

...said no one ever.

</comment></comment><comment><USER70> I will adopt the Fogg behaviour..... tomorrow.

<comment><AUTHOR> What about a tiny step today?</comment></comment>


Google Buys Invite Media - <AUTHOR> http://mediamemo.allthingsd.com/20100602/exclusive-google-buys-invite-media/ <comment><USER2> I interviewed with these guys back in September of 07 and before they could get back to me, I got an offer I couldn't turn down. These guys were 'operating in stealth mode' back then, but they really had a solid focus and vision.

It is amusing though because over the following two years, whenever a Software Engineering position was available for them, I would get inundated with calls from half a dozen or so headhunters. It got to the point that when the phone rang after the first 'position available' call, i was able to tell the hunter that they were trying to fill a spot for "invite media" and it became a bit of an entertaining sport for me catching them off guard.

</comment><comment><USER3> I went to Penn with the founders, though I didn't know them personally during my time there. I did meet Mike Provenzano, one of the cofounders, earlier this year though. He's a great guy and I knew upon meeting him that he was building something great at Invite. Congratulations to the entire team.

</comment><comment><USER4> Wow, I went to high school with the CEO, Nat Turner. Congratulations.

<comment><USER5> I googled the name and I guess the first google hit probable isn't the same person: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nat_Turner></comment></comment>


Show HN: We Just Launched Real-Time Polling Widgets For Your Website - <AUTHOR>

Hi HN,
I'm the founder of GoPollGo: A real-time polling site with a focus on analytics.  We recently launched GoPollGo widgets, so now anyone can collect votes using our system from their website.  Our widgets have all of the analytics (segment votes by location, age, gender, browser, etc) and also show votes coming in instantly as others vote.  We're giving away more analytics for free than PollDaddy charges ~1000/yr for.
Would appreciate you trying it out and letting us know how we can improve, etc.
Link: http://gopollgo.com/widget <comment><AUTHOR> Clickable: <http://gopollgo.com/widget></comment>


Pomodoro Technique - <AUTHOR> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pomodoro_Technique <comment><USER2> There have been lots of posts on the Pomdoro Technique to HN in the past:

[https://hn.algolia.com/?query=pomodoro&sort=byPopularity&pre...](https://hn.algolia.com/?query=pomodoro&sort=byPopularity&prefix&page=0&dateRange=all&type=story)</comment>


Ask HN: Webapp Sideproject – what boilerplate makes sense? - <AUTHOR> Starting to build something for myself on the side with my regular job and while we have some great stacks out there, is there a fast way to get started on a webapp framework?
Ask: Help me find the easiest to get started, lean and interesting web app framework to use for my side project.
Background: - I am well versed at HTML, CSS, JS. Have used Backbone.js extensively earlier. - Have read all the usual blog posts on X vs Y and I really want something where I can develop fast without worrying too much about scale or maintainability as this is really just for myself. <comment><USER2> For React, the two fastest ways to get started are:

\- Use the official Create-React-App tool to set up a project that has good defaults, with no config needed on your part: [https://github.com/facebook/create-react- app](https://github.com/facebook/create-react-app)

\- CodeSandbox.io is a full online IDE that lets you build real apps in your browser, including use of NPM packages and syncing projects to Github: [https://codesandbox.io](https://codesandbox.io)

You might also be interested in my list of suggested resources for getting started with React: [http://blog.isquaredsoftware.com/2017/12/blogged-answers- lea...](http://blog.isquaredsoftware.com/2017/12/blogged-answers-learn-react/)</comment>


A-plan-to-make-homelessness-history - <AUTHOR> http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/12/20/a-plan-to-make-homelessness-history/

<comment><USER2> Housing first is a wonderful program. My stepmother has been running a similar pilot program in Greensboro, NC [1]. The thesis, which is holding up, is that the total cost to taxpayers is lower if the city pays the rent vs. emergency room visits, court system, police, etc. that result from homelessness.

Its also hard to implement. Its hard to find willing landlords with safe housing, and you want to spread folks out instead of ghettoizing them and creating a larger problem. The whole thing only works because of the ridiculously hard work the case managers and other social workers are putting in.

[1] <http://greensborohousingcoalition.com/>

</comment><comment><USER3> I love how they preempt the economy issue by saying that it is cheaper to house them than it is to treat them. Wouldn't it be even cheaper to put a limit on how much you can owe the public before you are turned away at the er? After all, this is the money that comes from the insurance premiums that have exploded recently.

<comment><USER4> I believe that it was Mahatma Ghandi who said "A nation's greatness is measured by how it treats its weakest members."

<comment><USER3> He said a lot of things, including suggesting that jews went to the ovens voluntary (as some sort of protest against the Nazies). He may have his hearth in the right place, but I wouldn't take advice from him.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Another worthwhile blog post sullied by an over-sensationalized headline, from the author of _How to Change the World_.

Let's be honest, this is triage to save the life of people dying on the streets. And frankly, I find that to be a far more galvanizing rallying cry than making homelessness history.

</comment><comment><USER6> I will boldly predict that this won't work.

There are two types of homeless. The temporary homeless who have been caught out by circumstance and work mightily to avoid remaining homeless. These people tend to be homeless only for very short periods of time (days).

Then there are the chronically homeless, who are generally unable to live within societal norms. Many of these people are mentally ill. And for many of these people giving them a home and money will not solve their problems.

<comment><USER7> "Many of these people are mentally ill. And for many of these people giving them a home and money will not solve their problems."

This thinking is based on the fallacy that mental illness is a purely biological condition, which anthropology, epidemiology, and clinical data all soundly disprove. Even for mental illnesses that are mostly biological, like schizophrenia, the quality of outcomes varies enormously depending on the person's social environment as well as the course of treatment.

<comment><USER8> Do you know any LPCs or LPSWs?

First thing they'd tell you is that while mental illness isn't biological, that doesn't mean there's a cure. Some people could go 20+ years in therapy and still end up only a slightly less sick person than they were going in.

Also, many mental illnesses become biological in the sense that brain chemistry actually changes.

<comment><USER7> Excellent points. Are there any good books on the LPC/LPSW perspective?

<comment><USER8> I'm not sure. My best friend is an almost an LPC, I can ask her. She's worked with kids aged 4-18, and it's always the older kids she's most worried about. She's working with 13-18 year olds right now, but really wants to go back to 6-12 year olds because she feels like there's a bit more hope for them.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Amazon Copying Allbirds - <AUTHOR> https://www.theverge.com/tldr/2019/9/19/20874818/amazon-allbirds-shoe-clone-copy-sneaker-206-collective-private-label <comment><USER2> >Somewhat more perplexing are the reviews. Each one appears to have been written by an Amazon Vine user, which are people Amazon invites into its exclusive program based on their reviewing history. Those customers get free products and are encouraged to write reviews about them, although they're contractually obligated to disclose that.

Interesting, that the amazon reviewers are not disclosing they are for-profit reviewers.</comment>


Ask HN - Should I buy an iPad 2? - <AUTHOR>

Well, come March 11th and we see the release of iPad 2, the next generation iPad.
I don't own an iPad, but I have used one and really liked it. It is gonna setback me by a few hundred quids, but should I go for it?
To add, I watch a lots of videos - films and serials. And read at least a book a month. <comment><USER2> Yes, and once you get it, you'll be hooked on apps. Expect to spend $5-$30 a month on apps.

$0.99 apps are like mini-muffins ( <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-o-u4IwXkbE> ).

</comment><comment><USER3> I don't have a clever reason, other than I want to get one, so I think you should too.

"a few hundred quids" - so you'll be waiting until 25th March when they come out in the UK?

<comment><AUTHOR> Well, no. I am coming to Philly next week!! :-)

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> I just got Garageband and it's incredible - especially for $5. It runs a little slow on the original so I'm tempted to Gazelle my current iPad for a new one. If you're into music creation at all, then it's a no-brainer.

</comment><comment><USER5> Would your life really be better if video watching was a crappier more convenient experience? What if you took that money and scheduled a regular meetup with a friend at a indie movie house where you discuss the movie over coffee afterwords? I value intentional and rich experiences over convenient and therefore cheaper experiences. Some might argue that it's not an either or situation, but I'm lazy and know that I'd choose the convenient (and lamer) option if it required less effort.

</comment><comment><USER6> You should. You already know you like it, plus it will be two times as fast as the one you already used. Two Cameras and the snappy cover. Oh and it's thinner!

</comment><comment><USER7> xbmc works well. playing a movie and still having 90% battery left is impressive. you really should be testing on a tablet of some sort when writing webapps. as hover doesn't exist, certain drag operations may not behave the same, etc

</comment><comment><USER8> sure, just to experience what a fundamentally new and important class of device feels like. You may even be inspired to develop something that takes advantage of what iPad can do (that other devices can't easily do).</comment>


Show HN: Intern For A Day/Intern For Companies For A Day - <AUTHOR> http://internforaday.co/

<comment><USER2> Awesome idea! Win-Win for both interns and startups.</comment>


The Post Meritocracy Manifesto - <AUTHOR> https://postmeritocracy.org <comment><USER2> The problem I have with these kinds of manifestos is not the ideas they express (which by the way are terribly flawed, at least imho), but the implicit need to mandate these ideas and practices on others, using affirmative action, public shaming and other various techniques.

I, for one, would be extremely pleased if all my competitors suddenly decided to embrace post-meritocracy, if I could continue hiring people on a purely meritocratic base; I'd have a never-ending pool of good developers :)

</comment><comment><USER3> Your immutable identity means nothing to me. If you believe that homogeneous identities produce homogeneous ideas, you're mistaken.

Good ideas come from good people who are a good fit for their role.

Without meritocracy, how do we discriminate? How do we allocate resources?

Do we just fill the ranks with the prescribed amount of identities? Will any warm body do, given they have the right identity? Or do we pick someone with the right indentity based on how much favor they've curried?

<comment><USER4> Clearly you missed the very first point:

>We do not believe that our value as human beings is intrinsically tied to our value as knowledge workers.

You're supposed to be glad this guy wastes your time and money, he has a beautiful personality and deserves to be valued.

</comment></comment><comment><USER2> > We do not believe that our value as human beings is intrinsically tied to > our value as knowledge workers

Neither do I. But I believe the amount of money any of us get every month for your job as a developer is (and _has_ to be) intrinsically tied to our value as knowledge workers.

</comment><comment><USER5> Awful. If you need some eyewash after reading that, read this: [http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-harsh-truths-that-will-make- yo...](http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-harsh-truths-that-will-make-you-better- person/)

</comment><comment><USER6> I have probably always thought of meritocracy as an obviously good and economically sound principle, but this just made me realize that it's basically local optimization. If we want the economy as a whole to work better, why should we expect hill climbing to be a good strategy?</comment>


Autism's First Child - <AUTHOR> http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2010/10/autismand8217s-first-child/8227 <comment><USER3> The problem with most conventional approaches to those who deviate from the norm is to put them in boxes and label them, but they're human beings! This outlook directly results in dissociation from them and confining them to the label of other-ness.

On the other hand it is very, very rare to find complete therapy for an autistic child in most countries. It takes a lot of patience to teach such children, or adults anything. Unfortunately, if someone has a conventional model of behavior in their minds then they tend to get really angry really fast. So, what if we could make something, an interactive toy, that taught these skills to children?

I've always wanted to make touch sensitive panels with a display on them to teach kids vital social skills through play. If we make them smart enough to encourage safe interaction then it should be possible to teach social interaction skills at an early stage, but to do any of this we need to move beyond the disorder model and cookie-cutter attempts of making such kids fit in.

Why? In the conventional point of view Donald could never have a future like this and, hence, there's no point of even trying which is simply heartbreaking. I believe that there should be a path for such children which goes beyond such things. They're unique and no matter how different from the norm they may be. They deserve to be loved and cherished for who they are. Not who we want them to be.

<comment><USER4> All the best people are slightly different.

<comment><USER5> _All_ people are slightly different.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Reading this really makes me want to recommend the Norwegian movie _Elling_ \- it's witty, completely unschmaltzy and hints at a pretty good answer on what good care for adult mentally challenged folk looks like.

<http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0279064/>

It's streamable on Netflix for the US-based folks:

<http://www.netflix.com/Movie/Elling/60025098>

<comment><USER7> I'm really curious. What about reading this article made you think of Elling and what you refer to as "mentally challenged folk"?

Maybe I'm missing something (I haven't seen the movie, but from the imdb link you posted, no mention of autism)... but it seems to me like you're saying "having autism = being mentally challenged". Am I misinterpreting? I hope so :(

<comment><USER6> The article refers to the fate of adult autistic children when their parents die. The movie's character relates to a person in similar circumstances - <USER2> mother dies and a social worker places him in sheltered then independent accomodation.

I apologise if the phrase "mentally challenged" was offensive or inappropriate (the English language never fails to trip me up). As far as I can recall, the movie does not identify the specific developmental disability, but the main character engages in obsessive and ritualistic behaviours and has a number of challenges with fully integrating in society. His friend has different issues. The movie has a very positive message, as had the OP. I encourage you to judge by yourself rather than read the IMDB description. If you feel I have misrepresented it, I am interested in your views, my contact details are in my profile.

The real issue, I thought, is what is the appropriate level of state intervention / social support in circumstances where the parents-caregivers pass on.

<comment><USER8> I don't think the English language tripped you here but the overtly PC atmosphere surrounding conversations about differences in people.

<comment><USER7> I wasn't trying to be PC at all. I'm the least PC person I know: I'm an Aspie, I have little to no filter. I was just seeking clarification :)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> I always enjoy theatlantic submissions here; this one is really sweet.

single page (also js-free!) [http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/print/2010/10/autism-821...](http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/print/2010/10/autism-8217-s-first- child/8227/)

<comment><USER10> It's a meaningful submission, from that submitter, on a day of massive HN introspection.

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> Autism is a gradual thing, not a binary thing. It's not you have it or yo don't there is a whole spectrum of the levels that people exhibit and it can go from being an advantage at times to rendering it impossible for an individual to function normally in our society.

People with a physical disability have a whole lobbying system in place to force society to make room for them, mentally challenged people, by their very nature, do not have anything that compares and likely never will.

</comment><comment><USER12> "Certain words and phrases captivated him, and he would loop them aloud endlessly: trumpet vine, business, chrysanthemum. "

I want to know more about this idea.

I think we can agree that words like BIZ-en-Ness and CHRYS-ant-THENUM have a strange ring to them compared to the rest of the English language when pronounced aloud. (Also that word, "ALOUD")

From my experience, I'd expect most people as kids had at least one pet words that had nice ring.

<comment><USER13> Some people get songs stuck in their heads, I get words or phrases looping over and over. Sometimes I'll get both a song and a word repeating in separate loops at the same time! I think it's a similar mechanism though, it's a lack of closure. I believe they repeat because my brain is looking for connections, or trying to learn something from it. The annoying ones are when I can't remember the ending of a song, so the middle keeps looping over and over. Or if I can't quite remember the definition of a word, very annoying. The best ones are the ones I can remember all of the tune but it surprises me every time.

Edited for clarity.

<comment><USER11> To me the annoying ones are the ones I can't seem to get rid of, no matter how hard I try. I've got the a short vocal fragment from an Annie Lennox song stuck in my head for _days_ at the moment so I feel very connected to what you just wrote.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> _"... their lack of interest in people, their fascination with objects, their need for sameness, their keenness to be left alone ..."_

which can be experienced when you are working on some code, trying to make bug-free and of course someone has to come over and start a conversation...

 _"... The rules keep changing on me. Every time I think I learn a new rule, you change it on me ..."_

Psychology gives you the tools, observation the environment.</comment>