Juice may taste good, but unlike the fruit, it's not healthy - <AUTHOR> https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2017/04/26/people-think-juice-is-good-for-them-theyre-wrong/ <comment><USER2> This article primarily uses "juice" as a synonym for "commercial fruit juice." In addition, it's suggesting that it's not healthy/necessary to drink such commercial fruit juice daily.

If you're consuming smoothies which use the entire fruit/veggie that you'd normally eat, and you're not adding sweeteners, and you don't have any health issues that might be related to excess calories in your diet, then no need to attack the article, it's not addressing you.

But even then, note that the article still makes the point that people tend to over-consume when drinking their calories as opposed to chewing them.

As an example of one of my smoothies that I make at home that I don't think this article would take issue with: 100g frozen blueberries, 1 medium (126g) banana, 14g raw almonds, 100g spinach, 14g whey protein powder, 6g unsweetened cocoa powder, 10g fish oil, water. This is about 440 calories (18g fat, 56g carbs, 22g protein) according to My Fitness Pal.

<comment><USER3> "14g raw almonds"

You probably already know this, but others reading may not:

Almonds have a glycemic index of zero.

They are a great addition to a fruit _smoothie_ since, in addition to the fiber of the whole fruit, you knock down the (already low) glycemic index of the entire (liquid) meal.

I wonder if you've considered almond butter ? Most almond butters on store shelves contain sugar, which would disqualify them, but many grocery stores (including whole foods) allow you to grind your own in-store ... I find it much more convenient to add almond butter to smoothies rather than almonds themselves ...

<comment><USER4> > Almonds have a glycemic index of zero

Do you have a reputable source for this? Almonds contain carbohydrate, so surely they have some effect of blood glucose?

<comment><USER5> So, this is a great question to which I had no answer (not about almonds specifically, but I've heard similar claims for e.g. hummus). I still don't have any answer, but I believe the answer lies in the realm of "glycemic index is a complex measure that doesn't exactly match any simple model for what it would be". For instance, fructose has a pretty low glycemic index (about the same as kidney beans, actually), and it's literally sugar.

<comment><USER6> From wikipedia, "glycaemic index (GI) is a number associated with a particular type of food that indicates the food's effect on a person's blood glucose."

Because glucose is a sugar, you seem to be confusing it with fructose (another sugar, 5-carbon vs 6-carbon). The glycaemic index specifically looks at one specific sugar -> glucose. Sugars aren't intrinsically bad, but often times they are removed from their origins which contain other constituents that help our bodies digest them (all sugar, no pulp).

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> We've successfully convinced our two-year-old that unsweetened, carbonated water is "juice". She frequently goes to restaurants and is very excited to get "juice" from the bar, and considers it a special treat. Eventually this will surely fail when her friends can explain reality. But until then it's working great to avoid massive loads of sugar in her early years.

<comment><USER8> I'm not quite parsing the logic of doing this.

If she is getting fooled that carbonated water is 'juice', then I'm assuming she doesn't know what juice actually is and therefore has no association of juice = sugar drink. So why the need to trick your daughter?

Couldn't you have just called it 'fizzy water', or if water is associated with 'boring', call it 'fizzy drink'. She'd still get it from the bar and have the excitement of that.

<comment><USER9> Probably the kid just learned through cultural osmosis that juice is a good treat for kids and so naturally the kid wants it.

<comment><USER8> Fair enough. That makes sense. Thanks.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> I don't have proof for the following, but I think the article should qualify the type of juice being consumed. I regularly make juice from raw vegetables (ginger, cucumber, carrots, beets, celery, parsley, cilantro, yams, kale, chard, brussel sprouts etc) and I suspect that the sugar content is less than fruit juice. Personally I don't understand why a person would juice a fruit when you can eat it whole? Fruits are so stupidly delicious when eaten whole. In the end, everything in moderation...

<comment><USER11> > Personally I don't understand why a person would juice a fruit when you can > eat it whole?

I feel the same way about veggies. Raw veggies are awesome.

<comment><USER12> And I generally think most vegetables taste terrible. What's the point of going on about personal preferences here?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> I see a lot of people consuming things like juice, whole grain breads, breakfast cereals, sugar-filled nut butters and yogurts, etc. claiming they made "healthy" choices. Of course everything is fine in moderation but a heaping pile of sugar and simple carbs with no lean proteins, good fats or greens is far from healthy. The solution would seem to be better nutrition education so that more people recognize the fat free yogurt they just felt good about eating had 25g of added sugar per serving.

<comment><USER14> Just a note, whole grain bread is not the healthy choice just the healthier compared to the alternative of plain white bread.

<comment><USER15> Depends on who pays for the research.

If it's research that claims fruit and veggies aren't healthy, I usually check to make sure the research wasn't paid for by either the big pharma or dairy lobbies.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> Are fruit actually healthy?

It's one of those assumptions we make that everyone knows is true but do we have any real evidence that fruit consumed in quantities that where it have an real impact on our caloric intake provide "health benefits".

<comment><USER17> Vitamins, minerals, anti-oxidants, fiber (in some cases).

But yes, barring fiber, these are all micronutrients, not macronutrients.

</comment></comment><comment> d--b Anyone who has ever pressed an orange knows that you need at least 4 or 5 of them to make a whole glass. The amount of sugar is astonishing. I personnally water down my grapefruit five folds...

<comment><USER18> That sounds very inefficient, I've had yields of 2:1 with slight variations for different orange types.

<comment><USER19> Maybe you use a smaller glass?

<comment><USER20> Or even bigger oranges? Size vary wildly by variety.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> Why not make a smoothie which leaves all the body of the fruit inside the drink. Add a bit of water and nuts perhaps and there you go.

</comment><comment><USER22> My 95 year old (!) yoga teacher used to say, "eat liquid, drink solid" in his native tongue. It meant that when you ingest something a liquid like soup or juice, let it not rush down the throat; it should spend a nice chunk of time in the mouth, like a solid. In other words, "eat it". Likewise, when you have something solid, chew it until it "liquefies".

</comment><comment><USER23> People critique this piece as inaccurate but should instead should realize the way to attract attention is to get you first to read it. It then gets people talking. If you really get his point, he meant drinking juice that filters out the pulp isn't as good as filtered, and maybe harmful given that example he noted.

<comment><USER24> Most juice is not even "juice". Some of it is concentrated juice which is then reconstituted sometimes with added sugar or fructose. Some of it is only partially juice, the rest being just water, sugar, and flavor. Some of it is freeze dried and then reflavored because freeze drying destroys its flavor, i.e. not from concentrate juice. Some of it is pasteurized which destroys the vitamin content. It is not just missing the pulp, it's also missing all the fiber that fruit has which is good for your digestive system and also keeps the glycemic load from spiking as it digests slowly. There is really nothing good about the concept of juice or juicing. Just eat fruits and vegetables like normal primates do.

<comment><USER25> Old article from Gizmodo talks about this:

"Dirty Little Secret: Orange Juice Is Artificially Flavored to Taste Like Oranges"

[http://gizmodo.com/5825909/orange-juice-is-artificially- flav...](http://gizmodo.com/5825909/orange-juice-is-artificially-flavored-to- taste-like-oranges)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> A large distinction needs to be made between juice you drink within an hour of the fruit being crushed, versus drinking stuff a few months later, stuff that's been preserved via various bizarre tricks to keep it safe from oxygen.

Without intervention, the oxygen in the air will break down most of the healthy stuff within an hour or two. If you juice carrots and drink it immediately, there are benefits.

What you see in the USA, with the stuff called "orange juice" often makes health claims that should be disallowed. "All natural" and "contains Vitamin C" are highly misleading, considering the actual process that the juice is put through, so it can survive for months on the shelf in some store.

</comment><comment><USER27> The realnews headline: "Juice in excess is not healthy. Same goes for fruit." Guess that wouldn't get many clicks.

As long as you don't consume too many calories or spike your insulin too high by drinking large quantities at once, juice can be healthy. The phytonutrients and vit c will prevent the uric acid serum spike you get from fructose, soft drinks have also been proven not to increase c reactive protein. Although with less fiber it'll always be inferior to eating (or drinking) whole fruits.

</comment><comment><USER28> I eat a lot of fruit right now. About 4 oranges and 1-2 bananas a day. I'm actually worried that my sugar consumption is too high even from these natural sources. Anyone have some insight?

<comment><USER29> (I am not a physician and this is not medical advice.)

Recommended maximum intake of sugars per day: 37.5g (men) / 25g (women)

Avg. sugars per banana: 14g Avg. sugars per orange: 9g

4 x 9g + (1 or 2) x 14g = 50-64g actual sugar intake per day from the fruits listed.

That being said, each person's metabolism behaves differently so there's no specific action that you necessarily need to take. You may wish to ask your physician do the appropriate blood tests to check for pre-diabetes at every annual physical.

[http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases- conditions/prediabetes/di...](http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases- conditions/prediabetes/diagnosis-treatment/diagnosis/dxc-20270049)

<comment><USER30> Isn't that 37.5g figure for _added_ sugars? I.e. Non-naturally occurring sugars in the food we eat.

<comment><USER29> It is technically for added sugars. However, this individual is consuming an unusually high amount of fruit, IMO, and sugar is sugar, no matter its source. One can't reasonably claim, for example, that drinking a glass of freshly squeezed orange juice isn't a source of sugar even if no additional sugar was explicitly mixed in.

As I said, the blood tests will show whether or not there's actually a problem with his/her sugar intake.

<comment><USER28> Thanks for the input! Hopefully this high intake is balanced by the fact that I'm training for a triathlon and marathon, but I'm due for a blood test anyways so I will have a medical facility check me out. :)

<comment><USER31> Perhaps add some variety - like berries - to cut the sugar a bit and more diversity of nutrients :)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER32> Tldr; eat fruit and smoothies, don't drink juice

"Pulp" left behind during juicing contains the most wholesome parts of fruits, which prevent glucose spikes and contain most micronutrients

</comment><comment><USER33> An interesting analogy to think of is eating fruit naturally is like chewing coca leaves. Drinking fruit juice would be like snorting cocaine.

</comment><comment><USER34> I don't get. If you drink 500ml of juice your intake will be ~250-300 kcals. Then what? On a non-active day I burn ~3000 kcals a day. If you hit the gym you can easily burn an additional 700 kcals per hour. To be fit, you need to be active, and to be active you need energy.

<comment><USER35> one may naively think that drinking a glass of juice is 'healthier' than drinking a can of soda- when in fact the caloric values and sugar contents may be similar.

that is the important thing to take away from this article IMO.

<comment><USER36> The point they forgot to address is that "healthiness" isn't a one dimensional attribute.

Edit: from the same goddamn newspaper: [https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/food/no-food-is- hea...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/food/no-food-is-healthy-not- even-kale/2016/01/15/4a5c2d24-ba52-11e5-829c-26ffb874a18d_story.html)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER37> Are fruit even healthy, given sugar and all? (trying to justify my lack of affection to them)

<comment><USER38> Concept of an ingredient being healthy does not exist in science. Is diet filled with fruits and vegetables healthy? Of course. Starchy foods with high nutrients per calories ratio have super high unattainable overdose amount. That's why they are safe.

Eating 3000 kcal of bananas metabolises quite differently than 3000 kcal of glucose sugar.

</comment></comment><comment><USER39> "juice" may be bad (filtered water, flavoring from cologne makers, syrup), but what about whole blended fruits?

</comment><comment><USER40> I wonder how do cold pressed vegetable/fruit juices compare to plain fruit juice?

</comment><comment><USER41> I continue to be impressed by the pushback by the corn industry on HFC.

Quick, someone prove fruits and vegetables are poison!

I'm not saying that there isn't something to what they're saying, but the timing is... shall we say... convenient.

<comment><USER42> They're not telling you to run and eat HFC products. They're just saying that eating a whole fruit is healthier than just the juice. And that's something nutritionists have been saying for the last decade or more.

</comment></comment><comment><USER43> The article seems to point to these two as the main reasons why fruit juice is not as good as fruit:

1) _when you make juice, you leave some of the most wholesome parts of the fruit behind. The skin on an apple, the seeds in raspberries and the membranes that hold orange segments together — they are all good for you. That is where most of the fiber, as well as many of the antioxidants, phytonutrients, vitamins and minerals are hiding. Fiber is good for your gut; it fills you up and slows the absorption of the sugars you eat, resulting in smaller spikes in insulin._

2) _when you drink your calories instead of eating them, your brain doesn't get the same "I'm full" signal that it does from solid food, even though you wind up consuming far more calories in the process._

[edit: clarified text is quoted from the article]

<comment><USER44> If I put a whole apple with its skin or raspberry with its seed, or orange in a mixer-grinder, how or when exactly do I lose the skin, seeds or membranes during the process of making juice?

<comment><USER45> Wouldn't that be a smoothie? I'm curious about the difference with just eating the fruit.

<comment><USER25> I've heard some claims that blending would break up the fruit in too small many pieces leading to sugars that absorb more quickly - but I've never seen anything to back these claims.

One difference is of course that when you eat the fruit, you chew it. This takes time and this may give some "food coming, hunger over" signal to the brain. Smoothies are so easy to drink that you might be getting way more fruits than you would normally eat.

<comment><USER36> What is the problem with rapid metabolism? Isn't that a good thing, so long as you have the varied nutrients to ensure the long tail of metabolism? E.g. A mixture of fructose, glucose, and more complex carbohydrates.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER46> First they came after milk and now juice

<comment><USER11> The article actually mentions you should drink Milk but not Juice. I bet we can find a juice industry blog where they advise Juice but not Milk.

Personally I avoid both for my kids. Juice is sugar water, and my kids are not calves, so they have no need for baby cow food.

<comment><USER47> What do they drink after they are past breast-feeding age? Or are you saying that milk is not all that necessary once you are not a baby anymore?

<comment><USER11> 99% water.

Correct human babies past say 1 don't need 10 more years of cow milk to be healthy or have strong bones.

Youngest is lactose intolerant so that makes it a bit easier.

Can do almond milk but she doesn't love it.

<comment><USER47> Okay, thanks for answering!

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER48> This article is largely non-sense and not scientific at all. Here we go again with the fruit = sugar = evil, when I have yet to see an overweight person that eats too much fruit. There are communities of people called fruitarians that only eat raw fruit and vegetables and are largely very healthy. And yes.. they juice.

The problem with diabetes is that the cells of the body have too much saturated fat which blocks in the insulin receptors.

</comment><comment><USER49> Strange... the author claims milk is necessary for healthy growth in young children (which is ridiculous in its own right) and links to a study on fruit consumption.

<comment><USER50> Human milk or cow's milk?

<comment><USER49> Doesn't specify, but in the context, cow's milk seems like a fair assumption.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> I don't even have to check to know that this "research" was funded by one of three groups...

1\. The Corn Industry because they want us to believe that high-fructose corn syrup is just as healthy as natural fruit sugars

2\. The Dairy industry because they want us to believe drinking fresh juice is just as bad as drinking anything else

3\. Big Pharma because they don't make money on healthy people. They need us to keep buying prescription drugs so that they remain profitable.

</comment><comment><USER51> Misleading title -- Vegetable juice isn't bad like fruit juice. We should be targeting "sugar" and not "fruit" or "juice." Sugar from fruit isn't as bad as processed sugar, but from my experiences, too much fruit has the same negative effects as eating candy or sugar laced cereal. Fruit in moderation seems to be ok.

<comment><USER51> The title was changed after my comment.

</comment></comment><comment><USER36> People tossing around the word "healthy" like it's a well-grounded term.

Obviously, juice is full of vitamins and micronutrients. It's dense as hell. It's an expressway to diabetes if you drink lots of it. But damn if it isn't an effective cure for scurvy, low blood sugar, fainting, etc.

I don't disagree with the article; however, the moralizing of health is absolutely moronic. There aren't good foods and bad foods; there is only nutrition and the decisions you make.

Edit: from the same goddamn newspaper: [https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/food/no-food-is- hea...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/food/no-food-is-healthy-not- even-kale/2016/01/15/4a5c2d24-ba52-11e5-829c-26ffb874a18d_story.html)

</comment><comment><USER52> Although I'm a proponent of smoothies over juices, I disagree with this article's stance. The article argues that drinking juice leads to diabetes:

"She had always been overweight and had relatives with diabetes, but she believed she lived a healthy lifestyle. One of the habits that she identified as healthy was drinking freshly squeezed juice, which she saw as a virtuous food, every day. We asked her to stop drinking juice entirely. She left the office somewhat unconvinced, but after three months of cutting out the juice and making some changes to her diet, her diabetes was under control without the need for insulin."

Read between the lines: "she had always been overweight ... she made some changes to her diet". I highly doubt that cutting out juice, and juice alone, resulted in the patient living a healthier lifestyle. This is misleading. Unless the patient was downing a gallon of juice every day, eliminating juices—from whole fruit, not processed concentrated crap—would not solve her diabetes.

<comment><USER53> Why?

I'm not usually an authoritarian but the article seemed to provide a reasonable explanation why, and was written by three doctors working at a diabetes clinic, so "I don't think so" by anonymous internet dude is incredibly unconvincing.

Although you provided absolutely no reason why, I could provide a reason that seems perfectly reasonable to a normie, in that its well known to normies that relatively minor arithmetic mistakes by diabetics can result in a under or overdose coma related to insulin intake. Therefore if being a serving off for a diabetic can result in passing out, it seems very reasonable that junk food like juice products could be the difference between insulin and no insulin required for someone near the border. If force feeding a serving of stuff (in this case juice, but it could just as well be candy bars) would make my diabetic coworker really sick, it seems extremely reasonable that cutting out that serving from someone almost as sick, would make their doctor happier.

"Unless the patient was downing a gallon of juice every day"

A gallon of OJ contains about 2K calories. Two large 16 oz glasses per day, perhaps one with breakfast and one as a snack, adds up to a quart or 500 calories per day. If you multiply that out, that kind of intake is a gain or loss of fifty or so pounds per year, no laughing matter. A gallon of juice per day would be insane, gain a couple pounds per week.</comment></comment>


My Weekend (48 Hours Dev Time) Project. Anagram Creator for 'Words With Friends' - <AUTHOR> http://dolphinwords.com/ I liked this one a lot better than http://www.wineverygame.com/ because its live results. I had to make a cleaner interface. I don't condone cheating and don't actually use it, but I wanted to jump on the scrabble band wagon that will only continue to grow. This was a neat project too because I had to learn Word Search Algorithms. This was the most intense part and I was actually able to port Search Algorithms to strictly LINQ based. <comment><AUTHOR> I liked this one a lot better than <http://www.wineverygame.com/> because its live results. I had to make a cleaner interface. I don't condone cheating and don't actually use it, but I wanted to jump on the scrabble band wagon that will only continue to grow.

This was a neat project too because I had to learn Word Search Algorithms. This was the most intense part and I was actually able to port Search Algorithms to strictly LINQ based.</comment>


Ask HN: What do you want in a software PM? - <AUTHOR>

I have been a project manger for a while know, and really enjoy the work. However, I'm sure there are things I can do better - and as HN seems to have a high concentration of talented programmers you seem like a good bunch to ask.<p>So, what do you guys want from your project managers? When should they leave you alone, and when should they bug you? And most importantly, how many beers is considered fair compensation for pulling a late night to hit a tight deadline? <comment><USER2> * a schedule is to measure progress not to dictate progress. When deadlines are missed it is a failure of planning, not engineering.

* Deadlines will be missed and don't always expect me to have a clue either. Together we can nearly always work it out and account for it in the future.

* don't make me update the schedule when there are changes. It's not a good use of my time

* don't change the numbers I give you for time scales

* don't merge the tasks without telling me.

* don't change the order of my tasks without a conversation and realise that by changing the order you may lengthen the overall time it takes to complete the set of tasks.

* don't be afraid to challenge the order I think is best, you understand the entire project, I understand and focus on my code and sometimes little else!

* don't move deadlines without telling me, move them after we've had a chat though.

* don't fear me, although I can at times appear to be a right royal pain in the arse I will respect you more if you are straight, consistent and honest with me. Honesty is a big thing with programmers.

* there is no compensation for late nights. Over time the late nights build up and I get slower, less creative and less willing to compromise.

* when I fail to deliver ask me why and don't accept any bullshit from me. Learn how I, as a programmer, talk and learn to detect the odourless bullshit that comes from programmers at times. Warning, late nights increase the volume of bullshit you will have to wade through over time.

* It's difficult to know when to talk to programmers so encourage me to come to you regularly. In general your work has a lower cost for interruption then mine.

* realise that I love to code but that there is some code I love to write more then other code. Make sure I am getting through some of the shit work and not just screaming through the 'cool' stuff first.

* Coders may seem like robots but there is a lot of ego in code and breaking this ego barrier down will make code teams work better together. If you can foster an atmosphere where programmers are grateful for bug fixes/reports you are doing well.

* Read Peopleware and understand it. Good programmers have all read it and will respect you for seeing them and the project through it.

I've worked as a PM and Senior Coder so I've seen both sides of this. Above everything be honest and polite. The fact that you are even asking this question puts you in the top 10% of managers already!

Good luck.

</comment><comment><USER3> Well, for starters, don't patronize me: _most importantly, how many beers is considered fair compensation for pulling a late night to hit a tight deadline?_

 _most importantly_ : don't talk down to me with cutesy phrases.

 _how many beers_ : don't manage me with a system of rewards like a laboratory rat. And please don't concoct "fun" activities. If we're not having fun working together, maybe you should think about that.

 _is considered_ : you sound like an anthropologist asking about the ways of the natives. Or a high school teacher who wants to build rapport with the kids... you know, speak the "lingo" of their "subculture".

 _fair compensation_ : what you're talking about is not "fair", it's irrelevant. If I want to have a beer with you it's because I like you, not because you're a project manager and I did something you wanted. If there are problems, don't _compensate_ for them, address them.

 _pulling a late night to hit a tight deadline_ : if you're such a "manager" why is your team in this position to begin with?

I hasten to add that if we were working together, I wouldn't talk like this! I'm exaggerating to make a point, which is that I would be sensitive to indications that you are acting like a boss. If I noticed that, I would lose respect for you. Partly because I don't want a boss, but mostly because it would mean that you don't get something fundamental.

The most intelligent people I've met as project managers are the ones who instinctively understand that the higher status assigned to their (largely clerical) role is an irrational artifact and don't identify with it. Rather they identify as a teammate whose role is facilitator for the team.

<comment><USER4> I just have to point out one thing, however tangential:

 _if you're such a "manager" why is your team in this position to begin with?_

It could be the industry. For example, game development is nothing _but_ late nights to hit tight deadlines.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> I've never worked as a part of a software project team that had a dedicated "manager", so take this with a big grain of salt. I have worked for good and bad managers though and I have one thing to say:

Care about that you do and get stuck in with everyone else.

In my experience doing this will solve all of the worries you are hinting at above. If you are a) competent & b) only bug people when you consider it to be about something important then you can bug me whenever you want. I will put up with being interrupted when being "in the zone" etc if I have respect for you and you think it's important.

As long as you are pulling the all nighters with everyone else then you won't need to buy them beer at all, though it's unlikely to be turned down if offered!

<comment><AUTHOR> The hardest part about (A) is that if you aren't competent, you are not competent to judge if you are competent.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> Thoughts in no particular order:

\- Know the limits of your knowledge. This is probably hard. The less of a programmer you are, the harder this will be. The people you're managing probably know more about a lot of the detaily that are part of the project. Try to keep track of who is the expert on what. That's okay, that's what they're there for. Try to make sure you know your limits, and whenever you hit those limits, get the experts involved. Hence leaving alone/bugging. (managers at my last job got that right almost all the time) If in doubt, you probably don't know better. That's not to say you shouldn't make decisions, just genuinely use input from the experts. One of the best ways to do this is to openly admit that you don't know everything.

\- It should be clear to everyone what it is you do and why you (need to) do it. If the positive impact your job on the project isn't _felt_ by the people lower down, they won't respect you.

\- Actions speak louder than words.

\- Meetings without substance should be rare. The occasional "you're doing great, that is all" probably is appreciated, but at my last job it was way overdone. (daily to weekly) If you expect only you to be doing the talking, 9 times out of 10 you don't need a meeting. Of course, if people are likely to be asking questions relevant to everyone, it's acceptable.

\- Don't lie. It builds resentment, no matter how smart it seems at the time.

\- Unless you're handing out equity, overtime should be the exception rather than the rule. For some people, longer periods of overtime (1-2 weeks or more) won't actually get more work done anyway, they'll just get more tired and unhappy. Some people do get more done. It's a tricky subject, and I can't offer any great advice despite having been on the receiving end of death march orders. In my case the reason was constant orders from waay up to keep changing key parts of the project combined with bad QA handling of the project early on, causing bugs to accumulate because no time was scheduled for finding or fixing them.

</comment><comment><USER7> Other commenters have said it but it bears repeating: the single most important thing you can do is be honest and straight. Programmers can detect bullshit, and it's about the worst thing possible for morale.

</comment><comment><USER8> A PM's job is to manage _the project_. If someone's falling behind, find out why and do what you can. But don't ever make the mistake of thinking that because your title is "manager" that you're in charge. Remember that you need the engineers on-side to fulfill your obligations. Remember that the demand on engineers is higher than the supply - they can easily justify working on someone else's "more important" project, then yours slips and slips and you find yourself trying to explain to your boss but you don't know why. But you can easily impress engineers by demonstrating that you are on top of all the details. You've got a plan, you know what needs to be done (and you trust the engineers for the _how_ ), you know what everyone needs, you've got all the dependencies figured out, you've chased all the external suppliers, you've chased the internal stakeholders, there is _nothing_ stopping anyone getting right to work. In that situation, your engineers will make you look _great_ to your boss.

</comment><comment><USER9> I expect from a project manager to remove all obstacles from programmers. Programmers should be able to concentrate on producing the right code and not to answer support requests, report individually about progress to sales people, write documentation, worry about testbeds, etc. Another important point: the project manager should make very clear on what needs to be done - clear specifications, clear communication, clear tasks. Everybody should know what the others work on and what the progress and difficulties are.</comment>


C++ basics for competitive programming - <AUTHOR> https://www.topcoder.com/community/data-science/data-science-tutorials/power-up-c-with-the-standard-template-library-part-1/ <comment><USER2> First important mistake, _By the way, vector is the only container that is backward-compatible to native C code – this means that vector actually IS the array, but with some additional features._

No, it is not. A C array under the hood is a pointer to the start of the array. A vector is a data structure that includes a pointer to the start of an array. This is needed because that data structure is where it includes things like the size. But you can easily get out the array pointer, so no big deal, right? Wrong.

The problem is that there are vector operations which do weird stuff with the array. For example suppose you pass the array to one data structure, then push_back on the vector. The vector may now realize it doesn't have enough room to add more data, so moves the actual array to a new location and frees the old.

You may not realize this because the freed array still contains something that looks like the array. But it isn't any more!

Want another fun difference? In C programming you can easily allocate arrays in an mmapped block backed by a file, exit, then do another run and simply load the mmapped block. Try that with a vector and you'll get metadata pointing at random memory that you haven't allocated. BOOM!

So it is really wrong to say that a vector IS just a C array with extra features. They are different, and the differences can bite you pretty hard.

(That's the point I decided that continuing with this article was more likely to mislead than be helpful for me.)

<comment><USER3> > No, it is not. A C array under the hood is a pointer to the start of the > array. A vector is a data structure that includes a pointer to the start of > an array.

I don't think the article meant a vector is identical to a C array. I think the article meant a view into the vector can be passed to a C routine expecting a C array.

This is guaranteed by the C++ standard for the vector standard container:

        extern "C" void consume(int *x, size_t len);

        void f(std::vector<int> v)
        {
          consume(&v[0], v.size()); // C++98
          consume(v.data(), v.size()); // C++11
        }

> The problem is that there are vector operations which do weird stuff with > the array.

This is a problem in C and C++ with any memory. If you change the memory while someone else has a pointer to it, you lose. This has nothing to do with vector vs arrays, and actually works the same for vectors and arrays (if you realloc a C array, you have the same issue as if you append to a vector).

> Want another fun difference? In C programming you can easily allocate arrays > in an mmapped block backed by a file, exit, then do another run and simply > load the mmapped block.

Since you can't "point" a vector at a section of memory and tell it to use it, this is nonsensical. In C++ you would use a pointer or array_view if you already have contiguous memory allocated and want to refer to it by using an index.

<comment><USER4> >This has nothing to do with vector vs arrays, and actually works the same for vectors and arrays (if you realloc a C array, you have the same issue as if you append to a vector).

If you realloc a C array, you have "realloc" written somewhere in your source code. And a pointer that you updates.

> Since you can't "point" a vector at a section of memory and tell it to use > it, this is nonsensical. In C++ you would use a pointer or array_view if you > already have contiguous memory allocated and want to refer to it by using an > index.

Yes. This is just not "backward-compatible to native C code", and the vector actually is NOT the array (which is also not a pointer, but anyway...). Deal with it.

<comment><USER3> > This is just not "backward-compatible to native C code", and the vector > actually is NOT the array (which is also not a pointer, but anyway...). Deal > with it.

No one claimed any of the things you seem to be arguing against...

<comment><USER4> It's preemptive arguing :P

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> This article is probably one of the reasons why C++ gets the reputation it has. Please do not program like this. Aside from the fact that this is C++98, which lacks tons of features now widely accepted and useful in C++, the code in this article has no consistency, uses most bad practices I know, and is most certainly not geared towards competitive programming.

All this information is readily found in any online docs about C++. Please read those.

<comment><USER6> Seriously. Nobody needs to think about stuff like this any more:

      vector< vector<int> >

Who even does that?

<comment><USER7> Just curious, what should you use instead?

<comment><USER8>
      vector<vector<int>>

Prior to C++11, the code above would fail to compile. The lexer would see the final ">>" and assume it was the out-stream operator. This was such an annoying issue that they eventually changed the grammar so that the above would compile as expected.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Please put me back to old My Yahoo - <AUTHOR> http://yahoo.uservoice.com/forums/212118-my-yahoo-us <comment><USER3> What is surprising (and scary) to me is that corporates such as Yahoo who have lots of money and great talent can only end up with seriously mediocre at best re-designs?

At first reading the user complaints, I just thought "Bah, they would get used to it" (without actually visiting the page first). And then I visited [https://my.yahoo.com](https://my.yahoo.com), I totally agree with those complaints. as a fellow designer, some points I've noticed:

#Poor selection of font sizes

#Poor selection of colors (especially for background)

#Poor application of borders (remember, in design, borders portray complexity (in this case, unwanted).

#Inconsistent design themes (Search button has borders and gradients and shadows, the rest do not)

[http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/9383/hhew.png](http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/9383/hhew.png)

It seems to me that the design they had in mind was something iOS7-ish (which is actually good due to the minimal information it shows the user at any point) , but ultimately they ended up with something else more complex, confusing and awful.

Either way I wish Yahoo good luck and wouldn't dare to judge an entire company based on this design alone.

<comment><USER4> So on the money. How does this happen? Mayer's majdate was all about a culture shift, aligning the company to her old digs at Google. But it remains a thoroughly mediocre interface and service (for some reason I have refused to relinquish my Yahoo Mail account).

I think it comes down to 2 things:

A) there's an AOL-esque aspect to Yahoo. I genuinely believe that they don't want to be innovative, because they have such a white-shoe and casual-user demographic trapped in their walled garden. Yahoo doesn't want or need to re- invent ghe wheel.

Ii) Yahoo, as s company, is such a bloated entity. A fresh, interesting, original design concept would have so many layers to penetrate. Hence, the diluted mediocre crap.

<comment><USER5> I think Marissa tries to be personally involved in some design work.

<comment><USER4> She's pretty hands on. This is an illuminating (though longish) piece regarding her approach: [http://www.businessinsider.com.au/marissa-mayer- biography-20...](http://www.businessinsider.com.au/marissa-mayer- biography-2013-8#)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> I prefer hearing about _the reasons_ why something new is not appreciated rather than the usual "the older was better".

The poster of the complaint didn't really want to go back to the old My Yahoo. What they want is a new My Yahoo that

* use smaller fonts ("Font way too big and no way to adjust.")

* preserve the user-configured layouts ("Apps are rearranged all over the place, and some old ones are no longer available.")

* provide the useful quick previews for new items ("Hovering over news items no longer gives brief synopses.")

* etc.

Any discussion about "new vs old" is not going to be constructive. Users should learn to report "what" they want, not just filing generic complains. But treating users as intelligent people that can be taught things may go against the current trend of treating users (especially when customers) as spoiled kids.

If I were to deploy such an interface change I would provide a complaints box with these instructions: "0) complain only about one things, you can file as many complaint as you want. 1) Please summarize what you do not like. 2) Please suggest a better alternative. NOTE: generic complains like 'it sucks' will be ignored."

<comment><USER7> You can read the generic complaints as "I don't want things to change at all. They were ok the way they were. I don't want to be forced to adapt to changes that I never asked for and that do not seem beneficial to me. I don't want to deal with this at all. I don't even want to think about it. I just want to use the app like I used to and carry on with my life."

Resistance to change is a major factor in the adoption of new technology and without some kind of change management, reactance will occur.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> I haven't used My Yahoo in about 4-5 years since switching to igoogle, but since iGoogle shuts down at the end of the year I just gave My Yahoo another look as I'll need a new dashboard/news/weather replacement soon. The old My Yahoo was hideous, that looked like it accumulated a bit of Bitrot over the years, the new one actually looks like a breath of fresh air, quite polished and well-designed. It's more likely I'll be switching back to My Yahoo once iGoogle goes out.

<comment><USER9> Are we looking at the same site?: [https://my.yahoo.com/?mkg=970](https://my.yahoo.com/?mkg=970)

iGoogle is being transitioned out for a Google now homepage. It's a much better implementation than a smattering of stale info boxes/links.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> The aged old problem of change: there are always people who are against it. Change is what Yahoo! needs, if some people can't handle it then maybe they should move on.

<comment><USER11> Except they 'fixed' stuff that wasn't broken, like Groups.

<comment><USER12> and sports. top center for each team page used to be the most current game with direct links to box-score and recap/preview. below that was news with stats and division standings in a sidebar. everything I wanted on one page. Now it's split into multiple pages that aren't well interlinked.

only thing I can think of is they get more money with more pageviews

<comment><USER11> Sounds plausible. By far the plurality of complaints on that page have to do with the loss of customizability. It's as if Yahoo desperately wants people to flip through several pages of unrequested information from sports scores to stock quotes, where one custom page would have sufficed before.

This also ties in with the overall industry trend of using more pixels -- in the form of unnecessary whitespace and large fonts that, again, can't be customized by the user -- to display less information. Once again, the company gets more ad revenue as users struggle to access content that was previously displayed in a more compact format.

These days, beleaguered behemoths like Yahoo and Microsoft focus their business strategies on _their_ wants and needs rather than those of their users. Obviously, this kind of abuse will only work until they're replaced by more customer-centric organizations.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> This reminds me of an xkcd comic: every change breaks someone's workflow. It would have been a good idea to include an opt out feature, though.

<comment><USER14> >It would have been a good idea to include an opt out feature, though

How far do you carry that opt out? Three versions down the line do you end up having to select one out of four versions? Who is going to maintain that?

<comment><USER15> Exactly. These people don't realize that "try it" really means "switch ahead of the time when we force everyone else to switch." There's no opt-out because everyone is going to be switched sooner or later, whether they like it or not.

<comment><USER5> It is still useful when the new version have problems. It took some time before Google finally removed the old Google Groups, and they made it easy to switch back and forth during the meantime.

<comment><USER16> And currently you have the new Google Maps that's mostly useless, and it's fairly easy to switch back and forth between it and the old version.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> Yahoo just broke Yahoo Groups a few weeks ago. The new UI is god awful and makes some stuff impossible (like posting in plain text with proper quoting). It's also literally rather broken: author search doesn't work at all. Also they are losing and delaying emails at random and have been for weeks, and stopped answering support emails about it.

</comment><comment><USER18> You can't import the extra tabs to the new service? The decent engineering talent has clearly left the building at Yahoo!

MyYahoo has been my default RSS reader before there was a google (yes I'm ancient) and it was a real gem. I have 10 tabs in the damn thing and the idea of those not being easy to transfer is a really great reason to find something else.

I guess my real lesson is NEVER trust a third party with the data you love. And I don't care if it's Google or Facebook I'm telling you now as you become an older nerd that those services will go the way of GeoCities one day.

</comment><comment><USER19> I opted into new My Yahoo!, was presented with a preview with a warning as well as an option to go back [https://www.evernote.com/shard/s103/sh/6dff6226-59b4-44e1-82...](https://www.evernote.com/shard/s103/sh/6dff6226-59b4-44e1-8239-35826d9b7bee/42268552ba92610f4e19f1508d723fe5/deep/0/Screenshot%209/20/13%209:56%20PM.png) What did I do wrong?

</comment><comment><USER20> People hate change. Sometimes warranted, sometimes not.

</comment><comment><USER21> I don't like the color scheme, but other than that it's not too bad. Yahoo does need to allow more user customization before they lose too many users. That said, people tend to be more vocal when they don't like something. I doubt that those who like the change, or aren't bothered by it, are going to make a comment on uservoice.

<comment><USER22> "Choose Themes" fixes your colour scheme issue.

<comment><USER21> If there ever comes a day when I actually use yahoo, I may just take your advice and look for that. ;-)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> Ah the vocal minority. As Henry Ford said, "If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses". Don't let a few troglodytes stand in the way of progress. Look at your analytics for approval/disapproval, not your inbox.

<comment><USER9> Have you seen the actual site? It's atrocious.

<comment><USER24> Looked quite nice to me.

Disclaimer: I don't use my.yahoo.com.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> The issue sfor me are:

1) like all the subjects of this link, I can't go take a look & decide - they're forcing me into it.

2) I use Yahoo as a simple new aggregator, with a few small, collapsible boxes for weather, a few sports scores, a couple links. I don't need to see images of the sun that take 15% of my screen to tell me tomorrow will be sunny

I think the comment "This is MY Yahoo, not YOUR Yahoo" hit it right on target. Add to the fact that their new email system is an unusable disaster, it is sadly time after 15(?) years to dump them

</comment><comment><USER26> The web interface for Yahoo! Groups is more or less unusable. The admin panel doesn't load, can't read messages, can't approve people - More or Less - <USER2> non functional.

</comment><comment><USER25> I can't believe how much of the stuff they put out these days is just flat out broken. How does this get past QA?

I've posted this before, but for all the money they have, give me a decently paid position and I'll at least make sure things actually WORK</comment>


Future of the web - Single CDN network? - <AUTHOR> http://pingbin.com/2012/06/future-web-single-on-net-cdn/

<comment><AUTHOR> Short version, we now have 3 CDN networks that are on-net within ISP networks (Google, Akamai and Netflix).

Should we not fix this before it get's out of hand???</comment>


Online website builder - <AUTHOR> https://www.ucraft.me/ <comment><AUTHOR> Hey guys, I would love to share the story about ucraft.me with you, so what is it about?

In the simplest of terms, ucraft.me is the middleman that turns your ideas into online realities. In minutes you can drag and drop your way to a picture- perfect online presence.

Who can use ucraft.me?

Anyone and everyone! ucraft.me is ideal for anyone looking to develop a professional online presence for themselves, their projects, their business, or their events!

What are the benefits of using ucraft.me?

Ease of mind, ease of use, and great results! No developer knowledge or coding fluency is needed with ucraft.me.

What features does ucraft.me have?

ucraft.me provides a proprietary "drag and drop" feature that makes creating online pages fun and easy. This can be used for events, blogs, and overall content.

Is there a contract?

All current plans are on a month-by-month payment plan, so no contract is needed. We plan to launch a yearly subscription plan in the near future, which will allow you to save money while enjoying all the benefits of ucraft.me.

It's really about putting you in the drivers' seat and making that journey as quick and painless as you need it to be in order to realize your vision. There are some great CMSs out there already, but it's time for something that pushes the envelope in design. It's time for something that is as simple to use as it claims to be. It's time for something that gives you more freedom and creative control over how you choose to build your brand online. It's time to demand more from your CMS. It's time for u to craft me. Revolutionize how we think about how far the every man can take technology. Because we think the only limit is in your imagination!

</comment><comment><USER2> How do you think No developer knowledge? Is that possible for building a landing page?

<comment><AUTHOR> Yes, with ucraft.me you don't need any developer or coding knowledge. Everything is "drag and drop", and it makes website building fun and easy experience.</comment></comment>


URI canonicalization with an X-Canonical-URI HTTP header - <AUTHOR> http://sebastians-pamphlets.com/x-canonical-uri-http-header/

<comment><USER2> Not sure if the author's comment form will eat my reply or not, but you should already be able to use the existing LINK header, as the idea of a canonical URL was created using a LINK element.

The spec for the LINK header is still a draft ([http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nottingham-http-link- header...](http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nottingham-http-link-header-06)), but it's been around since before HTTP/1.1.

e.g. the current page is the canonical URL:

       Link: <>; rel=canonical

e.g. some other page is the canonical URL:

       Link: <http://foo.example/bar>; rel="canonical"

<comment><USER3> Thanks for the suggestion Vitorio, I've edited your comment ([http://sebastians-pamphlets.com/x-canonical-uri-http- header/...](http://sebastians-pamphlets.com/x-canonical-uri-http- header/#comment-2089)). HTML entities work w/ most comment forms.</comment></comment>


Are you a blogger on tech start-ups? - <AUTHOR>

I read that it would be a wise move to pitch to small(er) blogs rather than to the big boys like TechCrunch, who are more likely to ignore you.
As such, in preparation for the launch of my start-up (everyone has one these days. heh), I would like to request that you raise your (virtual) hand if you have such a blog.
Those who know of such blogs are welcomed to pitch (pun intended) in too. <comment><USER2> I'm the editor of Web.AppStorm.net, an Envato site focused on reviewing new web apps. We'd love to hear of any new web apps, and I often come across new apps to cover on HN already. Contact info in profile.

</comment><comment><USER3> I'm a reporter at LAUNCH Media (<http://launch.is> ) where we cover tech startups and news in the tech sector. Contact us at email@example.com.

</comment><comment><USER4> you didn't leave any contact information here or in your profile.

if you want coverage you need to make it as easy as possibly for the writer. this post should have included a one paragraph about your startup, link to the homepage, link to a simple signup form, a link to a page outlining features and a link to your contact details (more than one form)

you need to make it as easy as possible for bloggers to get the information they need to write a post. if you make it difficult where they have to go out and find the info then they will just move onto the next story (of which there are many at the moment)

</comment><comment><USER5> I can, get in touch.</comment>


Like.fm (YC W11) Is A Social Network For Tracking Songs - <AUTHOR> http://techcrunch.com/2011/03/07/like-fm?real=one <comment><USER2> At Grooveshark, we have a feature that does this and it works amazingly well. If you click on the people icon at the upper left hand corner of the screen you'll see a feed of what your friends are currently listening to on Grooveshark. The feature has become so useful, that I often discover new music to listen to through it much more so than algorithmic recommendations. Social recommendations are indeed the best way to discover new music. In fact, one interesting example of this is when one of our co-workers began recommending everyone listen to Mumford and Sons about 10 months ago. Within a month, everyone's feeds were filled with Mumford and Sons playlists. I remember looking at my feed and thinking "Who the hell are Mumford And Sons". Turns out they're awesome and got super popular.

<comment><USER3> 10 months?

[http://www.abc.net.au/triplej/hottest100/09/countdown/cd_lis...](http://www.abc.net.au/triplej/hottest100/09/countdown/cd_list.htm) <\-- That was the 2009 top list.

<comment><USER2> Those songs definitely weren't the top songs in 2009 (globally). Here's the billboard from 2009. [http://www.billboard.com/charts-year- end/hot-100-songs?year=...](http://www.billboard.com/charts-year- end/hot-100-songs?year=2009#/charts-year-end/hot-100-songs?year=2009).

<comment><USER3> I don't think the billboard charts are global. For Australia -- They overall for the year charted at 52 in 2009 and 8 in 2010 (In terms of sales anyway).

From wikipedia: "The band's debut album, Sigh No More, was released in the United Kingdom in October 2009, and February 2010 in the United States." It's nice to see Australia getting a media release before the US for a change. :)

2010) [http://www.aria.com.au/pages/aria-charts-end-of-year- charts-...](http://www.aria.com.au/pages/aria-charts-end-of-year-charts- top-100-singles-2010.htm) 2009) [http://www.aria.com.au/pages/aria-charts-end- of-year-charts-...](http://www.aria.com.au/pages/aria-charts-end-of-year- charts-top-100-singles-2009.htm)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> A lot of people are being rather critical of this launch, which in itself is a rather mean spirited thing to do considering a) anyone launching _anything_ should be applauded, b) and the 20 year old solo founder got into ycombinator with this product, c) data porn startups should be fascinating to hackers. Almost 20% of the comments here, and one of the most upvoted comments here is calling it a clone.

I believe that Like.FM can and will kill Last.FM. The reason is because Last.FM is in the corporate doldrums, and since Last.FM got acquired a few fundamental things happened: Facebook & Twitter. Last.FM has little to no integration with these services, seriously, imagine a social service in 2011 that entirely ignores these networks.

I love Last.FM, I have been a user for over 5 years (<http://www.last.fm/user/Hejog>) but I am infuriated to no end at the lack of innovation.

Last.FM has forgotten its roots of being a startup, and in this process lost the one thing products need to relentlessly focus on - delighting users. If Like.FM can focus on that, they will beat Last.FM.

The major roadblock with beating Last.FM is that their API is a very defensible beachhead - I refuse to use music services that do not scrobble, as data is worthless if you only see 90% of your listening habits.

Chris needs to run around SV and convince everyone to let him integrate his APIs with their music service. (seriously, isn't Earbits in the same batch as you?)

<comment><AUTHOR> I've actually found Last.fm's APIs and its ubiquity to be a plus. I've implemented Like.fm's tracking APIs to be identical to that of Last.fm's. So new player implementations usually only require minor, or no, modifications by me to have it working with Like.fm.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> _Founder Chris Chen says that its emphasis on song tracking is what separates the Like.fm from streaming services like Last.fm and music buying networks like Apple's Ping (which he describes as "a step above adding share buttons to the iTunes store.") says Chen "Like.fm isn't meant to be a destination music site, it's meant to be a place to find songs that you like. It's not meant to be a Pandora but a compliment to it, it's a place for sound discovery, where you go and listen to music."_

It sounds to me like he's describing Last.FM perfectly. Last.FM is a social network for finding new music based on the songs you play/scrobble.

I think with Pandora and Last.FM already well established and Grooveshark certainly doing fine I struggle to see the room in this market and what Like.fm provides that's different. Even the name sounds like a rip off of last.fm.

Maybe there is something here that the others don't/can't provide, but I'm not seeing it - anyone have any ideas?

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> So currently I'm the only person working on the site, and it would be awesome if I could get some help. So if anyone is interested in working on Like.fm (with compensation) you can contact me at firstname.lastname@example.com.

</comment><comment><USER6> I know this is offtopic, but I'll throw it out here anyway. My Last.fm account is 3 or 4 years old. I was 16 then, I'm 20 now. My tastes today are radically different from what they were 4 years ago. 4 years ago I used to listen to KoRn, Marilyn Manson and Eminem, and nothing much besides. Predictably enough, they were the top 3 artists in my Last.fm charts for a long time. Now my tastes have not only changed, they've become more varied. Some of the artists I listen to now have pushed my old favorites down the charts, but the old favorites still appear the top 10, and Marilyn Manson is still #1.

Sadly, Last.fm insists on listing heavy metal and rap artists as my top recommendations. I'd kill for a music discovery service that could take my changing tasted into account.

<comment><USER7> You can always browse the "similar artists" section on individual artist's pages. There's a "similar songs" feature as well, but I've found it to be fairly weak.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> The signup process is fantastic. I had zero trouble whatsoever completing the registration and installing the web & desktop clients. Streamlined = good stuff.

I can't tell you how pleased I was when I clicked the Facebook Connect button and didn't see a request for permission to post to my wall. Thumbs up for not needing that.

</comment><comment><USER9> If you're going to make a last.fm clone you could be a little more subtle about it.

<comment><USER10> Say, penultimate.fm?

<comment><AUTHOR> Hey what do you know: <http://penultimate.fm>

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> I noted that the article mentions that there is a lot that is 'coming soon', so maybe this is all in the works and i'm being redundant but:

I have to say that i'm not super impressed with how the profiles are set up. I really like Last.fm's profile pages because they provide a huge amount of information at a glance, and they do Like.fm's stated job of being 'a place to find songs that you like' very well by giving you compatibility ratings and showing top artists, top tracks, &c.

Meanwhile, the profiles on Like.fm are barely a step up from a text log of songs you've played. There's no information at all aside from that, just song a, song b, song c. I am not sure how this is meant to help me discover music i like -- there's no context or anything.

On another note, i find the design/layout of the site somewhat lacking as well. There's a lot of unnecessary white space and the design doesn't seem to have any coherent branding or theme (Last.fm has a relatively attractive and memorable red-and-white thing going on, for instance) -- it's just very dreary.

I hope that wasn't too harsh, it was meant to be constructive. I should add that i did sign up, in anticipation of improvements -- i am _very_ interested in moving off of Last.fm, it's just that so far there's not much to tempt me.

<comment><AUTHOR> So your summary page will rank your recently top played songs and group them by artists. It's supposed to reflect your top music within the last 1-3 days so it can keep up with what you like _right now_. I know the site may still look a little bare and even unpolished but I'm the only person working on it right now but I'll be hiring soon.

And as far as more quantitative stats and similarity ratings, that's all in the works.

<comment><USER11> Brilliant. Good luck :)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> Huge congrats Chris! Being a 20 year old solo founder is seriously impressive.

To everyone hating for how this borrows too heavily from last.fm: I think that you'll find soon enough that there's a serious opportunity in picking up where an acquired but now stagnating startup left off. Startups are so much more agile that this might turn out to be a consistently repeatable strategy.

<comment><USER13> He's 20?

Sweet, he's given me hope then, I had this feeling I wouldn't have a chance because im 19 (almost 20 - in april).

Good luck Chris, and make sure not to overbloat the app with features (like last fm)

Devan

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> I misread the title as Last.fm there!

<comment><USER15> I have a hard time reading it as anything other than Last.fm even after knowing it isn't Last.fm.

Wehn you cnodiser how we sacn wdors scuh taht the bignennig and end are by far the most iportmant deriffentaiotrs, the nmiang is annoyingly similiar, IMO.

<comment><USER16> Nice demo :-) I hadn't put my finger on why exactly I always read like.fm as last.fm, but I think you hit it on the head.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> _"It's not meant to be a Pandora but a compliment to it, it's a place for sound discovery, where you go and listen to music.""_

Right, because I don't go and listen to music when I visit Pandora, Grooveshark, etc.

<comment><AUTHOR> I think the transcribing got a little messed up, but what I meant was that Like.fm isn't meant to be a listening destination. It's not meant to compete with Pandora, Rdio, or iTunes. It's supposed to work with content delivery platforms, aggregate the data, and the ability to play via youtube on the site is simply a convenience feature to aid in discovery.

<comment><USER9> Last.fm didn't let you listen to music through them at all in the beginning; they were just a sharing and recommendation service. And for a lot of people, that's what they still are. They also are an affiliate for content delivery platforms. They also let you listen to music via youtube on their site. They also aggregate metadata from other sites like wikipedia. How do you differentiate yourself from them?

<comment><AUTHOR> Facebook did a lot of the same things other social networks did too on a high level. But you can't look at things only on a high level or else they all look the same. This is a preview of what's to come, since this site is new, and we're a much smaller company than Last.fm.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> My startup blaster.fm which I submitted for review recently - <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2275032> \- does a similar sort of thing with more of a social bent. It leverages last.fm's idea of scrobbling, so there's no need for new ways to track what you're listening to.

Best of luck though, guys.

<comment><USER19> _"... the service uses a Chrome, Firefox and Safari extension to automatically track what you're listening to on YouTube, Pandora, Rdio, Meemix, Grooveshark and Earbits and a desktop client to track what you're listening to on Winamp, iTunes, MediaMonkey or Windows Media Player. ..."_

The missing bit has been video (youtube) and various downloads in mp4 format that I play in xine, totem (linux). Is there anyway to capture in the desktop client in windows (WMP)?

 _"... My startup blaster.fm ..."_

looks like you beat my tweet. The same applies to blaster.fm. Stuff that's not in mp3 that I play mp4,flv isn't captured unless I write my own client.

</comment></comment><comment><USER20> Last summer, I remember saying Rdio should put together an offer for like.fm - looks like that has gotten more expensive. (nice work)

</comment><comment><USER21> Why did I have to log in with facebook if you were going to give me an account I can't get into using my facebook account?

Edit: Also, the chrome extension seems somewhat bad at picking out the song and artist from YouTube videos. I tried to leave feedback about this, but your feedback form doesn't have a submit button.

</comment><comment><USER22> 404 Error file "/rome/rome/rome" not found. We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused you. Rest assured there will be a layoff with extreme prejudice.

....that was my bad. Please no layoffs.

<comment><AUTHOR> Can you tell me where you got to that url?

<comment><USER22> I clicked on my profile, history, then I clicked on my name. It just says loading now... ??

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> This seems pretty cool, but I use the Pandora desktop client (paid for Pandora One.. hated the ads) or foobar2000 as my player and neither of those are supported :(

I haven't used Last.fm in years and this is very appealing, but Like.fm just doesn't offer a way to track what I listen to right now.

<comment><AUTHOR> Foobar2000 is actually next in line for windows to be supported.

<comment><USER23> Awesome, thanks. I just subscribed to the blog for updates and will definitely be using it once it's out.

<http://blog.like.fm/> (I can't find a link to this on your site)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> So, if the scrobbling API is the same like Last.fm's, there's slight chance some client (player plugins) could support Like.fm thanks to Libre.fm (yay, Micronesian registrar must be very profitable). For example, in Quod Libet's QLScrobbler plugin you can choose to which URL to scrobble, instead of post.audioscrobbler.com you can use turtle.libre.fm or any other URL. And there's much more clients - <http://bugs.foocorp.net/projects/librefm/wiki/Clients>

Just give us URL to point our scrobblers to.

</comment><comment><USER22> Great! I'm loving the iTunes support. It's how I do most of my listening. I'd like to see friend recommendations based on listening habits. I'm rome on like.fm, add me if you want to add me.

</comment><comment><USER25> Signed up. If you send me an email when mpd support is added then I'll give it a try. I could check back in a few months, but I'll probably forget.

<comment><AUTHOR> Sure. I will let you know.

</comment></comment><comment><USER26> Why all the custom extensions/tracking software, and emphasis on compatibility with the last.fm api when you could get the same data by just pulling from last.fm?

Data ownership, maybe, but it also felt like a very heavy onboarding process. "Welcome! Now install these two browser widgets and some desktop client..."

</comment><comment><USER27> I have totally been working on a site that would recommend music based on what your friends have been listening to. Similar to this, except it didn't have the great idea of tracking everything you listen to online through extensions. This is such a great idea. Congratulations guys!

</comment><comment><USER28> Mini-ask HN: Why link to a techcruch article when you could just link to the startup's website? I'm not trying to be ornery, sincerely asking.

I'm not interested in reading a techcrunch article about a new startup. I'd rather go straight to the startup and look at it.

</comment><comment><USER29> Thanks for that signup process.

How hard is it to extend this to some linux apps like Amarok or VLC? Is that in your development list, or are the programs too sparse?

<comment><USER29> Chris replied via his live support that he has an API and some support for Exaile (a linux player). Sick!

<comment><AUTHOR> Yes the API is identical to Last.fm's api and there is a hacked Last.fm scrobbler for exaile.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER30> I think I'd choose blip.fm over like.fm, personally.

</comment><comment><USER31> Love it. Runs in the background, I don't have to do any work at all. When I need it, it's updated. Nice work keeping it simple.

</comment><comment><USER32> Ha! Too cool Chris, I had no idea you were in YC W11. Too cool to see it go so well with Like.fm :)

<comment><AUTHOR> Yea your lyrics button is still there :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER33> Congrats Chris!

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks!

</comment></comment><comment><USER34> Very nice!

</comment><comment><USER35> congrats on the launch Chris! looks awesome!

</comment><comment><USER36> The negative with Like.fm is that I have to install a Like client on my laptop to track my music habits. I don't want to clutter my laptop with unnecessary software.

<comment><AUTHOR> The client only runs when your music player is running. And it's very lightweight. You can think of it as an addon to your music player.</comment></comment>


Ask HN: Where is the real innovation of the past decade? - <AUTHOR>

I'm an Engineer and I wanted to know this, am I the only one worried that our society has not seen true innovation in past decade? Maybe I'm wrong but ever since the recession, all we've created is a bunch of iPhone apps and websites. How do we get our brilliant minds to work on things meaningful? <comment><USER2> If you base your opinion on anecdotal evidence, you get fooled by the fact that consumer apps by their nature are more likely to have come to your attention.

If you really want to measure rates of technical progress, you have to be rigorous and do it bottom up. I.e. decide in advance what you consider to be important, then go look at the trend. Cancer survival rates might be a good place to start.

</comment><comment><USER3> Progress is usually evolutionary, rather than revolutionary, in nature. Hindsight allows us to identify specific developments that we glorify and put in textbooks. But in the moment, it can be less obvious what those developments will be.

</comment><comment><USER4> I, for one, am not worried; especially b/c "true innovation" is an entirely subjective quality, and even if we could agree on a comprehensive definition agreeable to all camps, the effect of innovation is not necessarily salutary. I think it's important to point out that creativity, 'constructive' engineering endeavors included, is literally destructive. You understand probably better than I that nothing that gets designed today by a reputable engineer is done so w/o giving consideration to its ecological impact. From my perspective, this is where true innovation needs to start, in cultivating a deep understanding of how we fit into the earth's ECOSYSTEM and cultivating technologically appropriate responses to the same.

On a side note, I also think you highly underestimate the technological advances that continue to be made under the infrastructural hood of the internet, b/c it's almost completely transparent. iPhone apps and websites in and of themselves may not be a big deal, but the growing scale of digital distribution channels and the level and scope of our interconnectedness certainly is. Not to mention, managing this growth in a way that is environmentally sustainable? Not a trivial engineering problem, and, in my estimation one of pressing concern...

</comment><comment><USER5> I think there are four key places where we've truly innovated over the last decade or so:

1) Solar power is vastly improved today and on a trend that follows Moore's Law

2) Cell phones can be found all over the globe (all thanks to innovations in tech)

3) Rechargeable batteries are lasting longer and making it easier to take complex machines into difficult areas

4) The ability to talk, tap, and rotate our phones/screens is a big innovation

It's pretty impressive to me. Some of these are incremental pieces that are built on top of decades of research. However that does not diminish the true innovation that led to Lithium-Ion batteries being so dominant today vs. 10 years ago.

</comment><comment><USER6> Genomics and bioinformatics for one. Identifying specific cancer tumor- specific gene mutations on a per-patient basis is happening today in small batches.

This is a direct result of hard-core hacking in sequence alignment software, advances in sequencing hardware, and piles of normal data management tasks being focused on helping flow the necessary information back to pathologists and doctors who make actual treatment decisions on this data.

I also think this is a "ground-floor" area in medical treatment. There is just a deluge of previously unknown results and even analysis techniques. This work just wasn't possible before . . .

</comment><comment><USER7> We need to de-commercialize our society. Right now, far too much time and energy is being wasted on going after the quick buck. And, no, I am not talking about communism. I am talking about creating a system that rewards long term efforts and true innovation, and most importantly gets the disenfranchised back into the game.

But this requires major reform and a new way of thinking about society. And unfortunately, at the moment, right-wing ideologues are busy pushing an agenda that move us in the wrong direction and misses the real problem. (Most of the left-wing, btw, mean well, they just don't have much of clue either).

<comment><USER8> I don't think top down approaches work well. I think you need a grass roots movement that's based on people committing 5 hours per month to projects more benificial to society.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> Peronsally I think crowdfunding is a huge innovation and has the potential to comletely change the game of everything. <http://icancer.org.uk/> is an exmaplte of crowd funding cancer.

<comment><AUTHOR> I wouldn't go as far to say crowdfunding is indeed true innovation. As a society, we've been using this method for a long time, again, we've just created a website to make the access to cash flow a lot easier. However, with the advent of crowdfunding, I do see more creative projects being worked. But are these projects innovative? Granted, most innovation requires time and extensive research. I'm just worried that we have not spent the time to invent meaningful things. We are obsessed with the word "Entrepreneur" and the quick buck that comes along. The link you've provided is a great example of how crowdfunding should be used to fund real innovation.

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> This post would be more meaningful if you defined meaningful.

Certainly, engineers at large have a disgraceful record for enabling horrible technologies that are a detriment to society: surveillance, censorship, stacked financial systems, weaponry.

On the whole though, engineers are logical beasts. Perhaps you would have greater success convincing the HN community to spend their time on positive impact projects by researching and presenting compelling evidence that one or more areas they support are ultimately trivial and/or have a negative social impact.</comment>


Olbermann damns Twitter for hosting fake Olbermann site...run by MSNBC - <AUTHOR> http://media.nationalreview.com/post/?q=MDBkYTA4ZGM4MjNmMDJhOGNmN2NiZmZhZjk4NmZkN2M=

<comment><AUTHOR> UPDATE: It gets better and better. Olbermann was actually running a Twitter feed.

[http://www.redstate.com/absentee/2009/03/29/new- revelations-...](http://www.redstate.com/absentee/2009/03/29/new-revelations- in-case-of-olbermann-v-twitter/)</comment>


Ask HN: How to get a large list of highly distributed startups - <AUTHOR> We are working the productivity tool that is most value for highly distributed / remote tech startups. To get large list of company names that we should target we are thinking about a script that will crawl jobs boards for keywords like "remote" & "distributed". Does anyone have better ideas or know of any tools that can help accomplishing that goal? <comment><USER2> Provide advice that's actually interesting and let them come to you (particularly for this savvy and motivated audience). Google "content marketing" for one way to do this.

If you have to contact total strangers who have never heard of your thing, you're probably doing something incorrectly - definitely consuming way more effort and goodwill than needed, and probably wasting many recipients' time for every one who actually cares.

<comment><AUTHOR> We were thinking to get target companies list first and then use linkedin search to find companies where we have good 2nd degree connections.

To provide some more context, we are searching for our first private beta batch and we have've got some good leads from 1st degree connections, but we may exhaust them soon. With the number of 2nd & 3rd degree connections it is much harder to target the right people/companies.

Knowing our state, would you still advice us to invest in content vs exploiting 2nd & 3d degree connections to get first customers?

Thanks for your help!</comment></comment>


Mossberg: Google doubles down on AI - <AUTHOR> http://www.theverge.com/2016/5/19/11706274/walt-mossberg-google-home-artificial-intelligence-chatbot-io-2016 <comment><USER2> "We believe the real test is whether humans can achieve a lot more with machine learning assisting them"

GREAT! Bring it on. Let's usher in a new age of technological advancement.

"For instance, it's Google Assistant that will allow the Google Home gadget to turn off your lights, play wake-up music, warn you of a delayed flight, and change dinner reservations due to that delay"

Oh...THAT is the "AI" the supposedly smartest engineers in the world work on...</comment>


Ask HN: What are the challenges to be faced by a bicycle sharing startup? - <AUTHOR>

I have started working on my first idea, dont know exactly where to start I think. Getting to know about the challenges to my idea might be a good start. Need insights on bicycle sharing/rental idea for a startup in country like India. Where population is high and so is the demand <comment><USER2> We did an investigation of a similiar idea and some of the initial challenges were: 1\. How to track the cycles if you don't have predetermined pick up and drop off points. 2\. How to let users know if a cycle is available and location 3\. How to know when a cycle is in need of maintenance We ultimately concluded that the concept would probably work best if it is very localized or community based so the users could assist in the running of the program.

</comment><comment><USER3> You might get some ideas by looking at Citi Bike, which is a bike sharing service in NYC: [http://www.citibikenyc.com](http://www.citibikenyc.com)</comment>


Ask HN: What CMS can do user management for thousands of users? - <AUTHOR>

I'm developing a site for the biology community, which is in part normal CMS-friendly content like articles, dates for conferences,etc, but also has a feature where (tons of) users can submit and edit protocols.
I'm wondering which CMS is best at handling huge user communities, while still handling "normal CMS stuff" well.
Thanks! <comment><USER2> Well I'll have to say that our CMS Halogy can do this very well. It's currently handling over 5000 users for a project management site, and we have another site that houses over 7000 users for an online shopping community. It does all the 'normal CMS stuff' too (like Blog, Editing, version control etc). <http://www.halogy.com></comment>


Alchemist – A non-deterministic programming language based on chemical reactions - <AUTHOR> https://esolangs.org/wiki/Alchemist <comment> munk-a If we have the rule

        2H + O -> H2O

and the universe consists of 3 H and 2 O atoms, then the rule is applicable. After applying the rule our universe will contain 1 H2O, 1 H and 1 O atoms. At this point the rule would not be applicable anymore.

If we have the rule

        Alice + Bob + 0Eve -> AliceBob

and the universe contains 1 atom of each Alice, Bob and Eve. Then that rule is not applicable because it requires the universe to contain no atom of type Eve.

>>>

Oh man that is a disappointing definition, the fact that 2H + O can operate with 3H but 0H + O can't is extremely misleading and syntactically inconsistent. I am not certain how it'd be best to define a rule that predicates on an absence of a token but that syntax is terrible.

Also, assuming this language is meant to be chemistry minded I'm sad that there is no support for the grouped sub-quantities that tend to be described... any chemist would probably be confused when O2 wasn't considered equivalent to 2O

<comment><USER2> _> I am not certain how it'd be best to define a rule that predicates on an absence of a token but that syntax is terrible._

That would be pretty confusing. Instead, transitions can always be allowed to happen if the left hand side is satisfied and then the "don't transition if there's an Eve" semantics -- when necessary/desired -- can be made explicit by adding assertions to each nondeterministic transition.

For example, if you want 1 Adam and 1 Bob to transition to 1 AliceBob regardless of Eves then you write:

        Alice + Bob -> AliceBob

but if you want to insist there are no Eves for this rule to hold, then you write:

        assert(0Eve);
        Alice + Bob -> AliceBob

in which case there must be 0 Evens in order for the Alicebob transition to happen.

These sorts of nondeterministic transitions with optional guards are expressible in dynamic logic; see see A3 + A8 in [0].

[0] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_logic_(modal_logic)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_logic_\(modal_logic\))

<comment><USER3> I think a set of two equations is enough:

        Eve + AliceBob → Alice + Bob + Eve
        Alice + Bob → AliceBob

I understand with non-deterministic behaviour and 10 Alices, 10 Bobs and 10 Eves I can get in a certain state (Alice, Bob, Eve, AliceBobs) = (1, 1, 10, 9), but if we stick to the evaluation order defined by the language, then the two rules above satisfy the condition.

<comment><USER2> _> but if we stick to the evaluation order defined by the language_

Is this true? According to the linked page:

 _" The program will continually pick rules at random from the set of applicable rules, until there are no such rules."_

In your encoding, we could end up transition from state {3Eve, 1Alice, 1Bob} to state {3Eve, 1AliceBob}. I agree that, in the _next_ time step, we might transition _back_ to {3Eve, 1Alice, 1Bob}. But there are two problems with this formulation:

1\. We often (in many domains _always_ ) really care about the _intermediate_ behaviors of the model, not just the final state. Which means that an observation of the trace:

        {3Eve, 1Alice, 1Bob} ~> {3Eve, 1AliceBob} ~> {3Eve, 1Alice, 1Bob}

is often not necessarily equivalent to simply staying in state {3Eve, 1Alice, 1Bob}. This is especially true in physical systems (including chemical reactions).

2\. We might end up back in the "right" state, but only for those two rules! In particular, we might _not_ actually end up back in state {3Eve, 1Alice, 1Bob} after all if there are other transition rules. For example:

        Eve + AliceBob → Alice + Bob + Eve
        Alice + Bob → AliceBob
        AliceBob + Eve → WEIRDNESS

With some probability (which the docs don't specify) we might now observe the following transition:

        {3Eve, 1Alice, 1Bob} ~> {3Eve, 1AliceBob} ~> {2Eve, WEIRDNESS}

with no way to get back to {3Eve, 1Alice, 1Bob} :-(

One additional problem: this encoding is not equivalent to the guarded version if transitions can have side-effects (e.g., if transitions consume a global implicit "fuel" or some other abstract representation of cost).

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> After poking around the site, I can't see any specific reference—which makes me suspect it was an independent discovery of a cool idea—but this is _very_ similar to a deliberately-constrained version of the Join Calculus [https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/wp- content/uploads/...](https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/wp- content/uploads/2017/01/join-tutorial.pdf) which uses a similar chemical-ish model of computation. There's an implementation of the Join Calculus in an OCaml-like language called (of course) JoCaml. Where Alchemist would write

        2H + O -> H2O

JoCaml would write

        def h() & h() & o() = h2o();;

One of the big differences is that JoCaml allows you to embed payloads inside your atoms, e.g.

        def a(x) & b(b) = c(if b then x else 0);;

will consume an _a_ with an integer payload and a _b_ with a boolean payload, and produce a _c_ with an integer payload. It also lets you include computations as reactions happen, e.g.

        def a(x) = ( Printf.printf "Reacting!\n"; b(x + 1) );;

which lets you use this "chemical soup" model as the basis for concurrent programming.

There is a very detailed tutorial (which appears to have sadly half-broken formatting) which explains JoCaml in more detail here: [https://sites.google.com/site/winitzki/tutorial-on-join- calc...](https://sites.google.com/site/winitzki/tutorial-on-join-calculus-and- its-implementation-in-ocaml-jocaml)

<comment> a-nikolaev Yeah, Stochastic Pi-calculus and chemical reaction networks simulators are doing this this too. They actually precisely define the probabilities of reactions based on the current amount of different molecules and their reaction rates. For instance, I used the tool called Beta Workbench (BetaWB) and hand-written simulators for modeling systems like this. It's a really cool computational model, I think.

<comment><USER5> Adding relative weights to each rule would be a simple extension to the grammar. If only integer weights were permitted it could be a simple preprocessor.

<comment> a-nikolaev Grammar yes, but sampling reaction with appropriate rates makes the choice of the next reaction a little harder than arbitrary selection.

The time to each possible event must be drawn from the exponential distribution ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exponential_distribution](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exponential_distribution)), and the event with the smallest waiting time fires next.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> For those interested in the subject, the field that formalises the computation of chemical-reaction-like grammars is called P systems (or Membrane Computing) [1], which are known to be super-Turing devices [2].

Well, given the resistance to accept the practicality of super-Turing devices, a simpler model exists, MP systems [3], with simplified semantics and practical for biological applications.

MP systems are proved to be Turing-equivalent and there is a nice paper [4,5] (shameless promotion) that shows how to convert each type of "chemical reaction equation" into basic, sequential "assembly" (set of instructions for register machines).

In [5], a compiler and a simulator is implemented, but the source code is not yet available (I will eventually do so).

[1]: [http://ppage.psystems.eu/](http://ppage.psystems.eu/)

[2]: [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypercomputation](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypercomputation)

[3]: [http://www.scholarpedia.org/article/Metabolic_P_systems](http://www.scholarpedia.org/article/Metabolic_P_systems)

[4]: [https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-319-28475-0_...](https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-319-28475-0_13)

[5]: [https://arxiv.org/abs/1505.02420](https://arxiv.org/abs/1505.02420)

<comment><USER6> Please explain to me how these systems can solve the Halting problem --- Everything I've tried to find on "Hypercomputation" has either been philosophical, or computability theorists playing with halting oracles for fun. I don't know of thing that seriously claims that hypercomputation is /physically realisable/.

<comment><USER3> I am very sorry, but I cannot: I am not an expert in super-Turing P systems.

(I can answer questions on MP systems, however.)

On the other hand, there are two papers that can answer your questions:

1\. Bio-steps beyond Turing [1], from Calude and Pǎun.

2\. Membrane system models for super-Turing paradigms [2], from Gheorge and Stannet.

From [2], referring to [1], there is this excerpt that might interest you:

> Calude and Pǎun (2004) introduced the first super-Turing model of > computation rooted in biology rather than physics, and it is this work that > we extend in this paper; their model also uses accelerated computation to > solve the Halting Problem (and others), based this time on the observation > that reaction rates are essentially proportional to molecular > concentrations, and hence inversely proportional to the volume of the > containing compartment when the number of molecules remains constant.

[1]: [https://researchspace.auckland.ac.nz/bitstream/handle/2292/3...](https://researchspace.auckland.ac.nz/bitstream/handle/2292/3733/226cris.pdf)

[2]: [https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Mike_Stannett2/publicat...](https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Mike_Stannett2/publication/235687536_Membrane_system_models_for_super- Turing_paradigms/links/00b7d5152e933cd4e3000000.pdf)

<comment><USER7> You left out the part where the paper states that it's still an open problem whether hypercomputation is physically realisable.

If some device can solve the Halting Problem, then it can solve every single unsolved mathematical conjecture that can be encoded as a Turing machine that halts if the conjecture is true (so about all of them?). This is an insanely bold claim, so please forgive the scepticism.

<comment><USER3> > This is an insanely bold claim, so please forgive the scepticism.

I am interested in the concept of hyper-computation and I would like it to be physically constructable, but in the present moment I also see it as an intellectual construct only.

Thus, I am as sceptical as you. :)

If, someday, super-Turing devices will be built, I imagine it will (first) come as analog devices (e.g. Siegelmann's Analog Neural Networks [1,2]), not as biological ones.

But this discussion is slightly off-topic, I guess.

[1]: [https://binds.cs.umass.edu/anna_cp.html](https://binds.cs.umass.edu/anna_cp.html)

[2]: [https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Arthur_Younger2/publica...](https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Arthur_Younger2/publication/278709409_Lecture_Notes_in_Computer_Science/links/56ec2ed408ae4b8b5e732fb0.pdf)

<comment><USER7> It was not my intention to argue that the entire concept will never fly (I'm nowhere near qualified for that), nor that it shouldn't be researched. It's just that the post by bollu that you've responded to specifically asked if this is physically possible, and the paper you linked quite clearly answers "we have no idea yet".

Personally, I wouldn't be actually all that surprised if mathematics and computer science ended up solved some day by a system of chemical membranes, since, to put it extremely crudely, it was developed by systems of chemical membranes in the first place ;) That would raise some serious philosophical questions, though.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> I don't understand the meaning of nondeterminism in this context. Definition of a nondeterministic language from the linked wiki:

> Languages with significant operations (such as execution order) that are > predominantly nondeterministic; the same answer cannot always be expected in > the same circumstance.

What are the significant operations in this language that cannot always be expected to produce the same result?

<comment><USER9> If you have two rules like this:

        H -> O
        H -> 2O

then the interpreter will pick one at random. It is possible to write entirely deterministic programs, but some programs are non-deterministic.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> Nice. If you would combine '->' operator with copy element 'I' and terminator element 'O' you could manipulate the syntax with category equations ( pure impelementation here [https://github.com/kummahiih/python-category- equations](https://github.com/kummahiih/python-category-equations) and if you like to think as cats and balls, then usage example here: [https://github.com/kummahiih/python-domain- equations](https://github.com/kummahiih/python-domain-equations) ).

<comment><USER10> I mean the notion here is of type "connect this source to this sink". Source -> Sink. That kind of setting is called category in mathematics, but the notation is a bit clumsy and can be made a bit more clear by introducing those copy 'I' and terminate 'O' -symbols to the mix. The python library above does that and it could be perhaps possible to plug it into this syntax easily.

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> Implementation: [https://github.com/pjt33/Alchemist.Py/blob/master/Alchemist....](https://github.com/pjt33/Alchemist.Py/blob/master/Alchemist.py)

</comment><comment><USER12> Thanks for the pointer to esolangs.org. Didn't know such a place existed on the internet.

Alchemist looks fun, but only by looking over the Truth Machine page did I understand exactly what it is about.

[https://esolangs.org/wiki/Truth-machine](https://esolangs.org/wiki/Truth- machine)

</comment><comment><USER13> This is good. A proof that current computing model isn't the only one for computation.

Appreciate for sharing your work.

<comment><USER13> A feedback so that others will think clear before providing a comment, because I saw lot of comments asking for proof on how your project is better, whether it is computationally correct or not.

Here is my suggestion. Let me know whether it makes sense or i misunderstood the project. I tried my best to explain it, please don't hesitate to correct my understanding.

Wiki page can have an introduction in form of an animated video or images that depicts comparison between typical computing model and yours.

1\. What's the current computing about ? - binary -> input (processing )output -> input + (neural processing) + output -> quantum.

2\. How is your computing changed from that ? The way I see it, we can build and solve problems in a different paradigm.</comment></comment>