Ask HN: Parents, what are you doing for school this fall? - <AUTHOR> I'm a professional software engineer with two middle-school aged children and a working partner cramped into a small apartment. Since the shelter in place orders happened and my employer switched everyone to work from home, my apartment has seemed less and less suitable for productivity. It's also not the best environment for children to remain cooped up in their rooms on electronics all day, every day. My partner and I have experimented with some online camps and our local public schools have gone purely virtual, but I'm considering alternative schools this year as well as moving out of our cramped apartment.<p>Parents: What have you tried? What did you love? What did you hate? <comment><USER3> Hey Parents!

                  We're hoping to fill in some of the issues that COVID has created. We're providing a free education app for kids aged 5-10. Our curated content that we've filmed and gamified surrounds intriguing concepts! hopefully we can buy back some of your time!

Below is a quick description what we do:___ Hey There HackerNews! We're Mayu & Glenn, the founders of ThinkStation ([https://beta.thinkstation.io/exclusive/](https://beta.thinkstation.io/exclusive/)). We provide an education platform for kids aged 5-10 to learn intriguing concepts through gamified e-learning... Live! Kind of like a mix of MasterClass, Peleton and Gamification! Now more than ever, we know parents are stressed out. We want to help you buy back 45 minutes of your day to enjoy a sip of coffee, nap or work! Your kids can learn about the dirty jobs of the middle ages, or learning what is money whilst you sip away on a tea with a book! We've founded ThinkStation with the idea to allow parents to trust the content their kids consume, but also be active when doing so!

It would be great if anyone with kids aged 5-10 sign up for our BETA and help us build an amazing platform for both Parents and Kids alike! (Link: [https://beta.thinkstation.io/exclusive/](https://beta.thinkstation.io/exclusive/))

Also -- If anyone knows where else to post, let us know :)

Feedback always helps!

</comment><comment><USER4> Single dad here in a small apartment with a 7yo whose school went fully remote.

I switched to a reduced-hours contractor status at my day job and went "full- time" on my side project so I can make my own schedule.

I do the bulk of my focused work either after my kid goes to bed or before she starts school for the day.

During the day when she's in class, it seems like every class period, there's at least one or two tech issues she needs help with. To keep that time productive for me, I do household chores, meal prep, and any easily- interruptable work-related tasks (like writing correspondence).

It's not ideal, but I feel like I can make it work for us indefinitely.

<comment><USER5> This is how I am working also. I have requested that all meetings in the future happen after 3, so the kids will be done with their schooling.

Today was the first day of school and my kids are in 3rd grade.

Just like you said, there was at least four times that I needed to come over and fix tech support issues. And help them figure out how to do something.

I am trying to figure out which is better right now, with using ipad, laptop, or chromebooks.

<comment><USER6> With regards to tech, I run a digital learning pod for kids ages 3-9 and we have a lot of families in product, hardware, software, machine learning and education in our group so we pooled together our knowledge and tried a bunch of different combinations to find what worked best for our group.

My priorities as an educator were for the kids to be able to jump up, lay down and whisper across the room. I also wanted to make sure the devices were safe (for small ears) etc. I wanted the kids to feel as much as possible like they were in the room with me. I didn't want to create an experience where kids had to sit still at their desk or strain to see or hear.

As a teacher, I prefer when kids use a mac laptop because when they screen share or use an app their image does not disappear (which gives less of an in- person feel). I like that they can open multiple windows, so for example, I can be showing them one app, while they're working independently - and I can see their face when they're trying to work independently. Otherwise it makes me feel less like I know what's going on with them.

The big downside with the chromebook is that it doesn't support a lot of amazing apps which are so great for learning, especially at a time when giving kids a fun app they can use independently is a big support to the whole family.

As much as I like a laptop, a lot of our parents prefer the ipad, however, because kids are a bit more free to move about the house. Also, it's considerably less expensive, which makes it easier for all of us to help keep access to our group equitable. We do our best to sponsor any child who can't afford our group but wants to join and we're trying to make this as scaleable as possible so we can offer it to more families everywhere.

Ultimately, this is the winning combo we went with.

Ipad (most recent version or possible)

Wide lens (so kids can move around) [https://www.amazon.com/Xenvo-iPhone- Camera-Lens-Clip](https://www.amazon.com/Xenvo-iPhone-Camera-Lens-Clip)

Airpod pro (by far the best for sound and most comfortable) [https://www.apple.com/airpods-pro](https://www.apple.com/airpods-pro)

Ipad stand (so kids aren't constantly looking down) [https://www.amazon.com/Gooseneck-Tablet-Mount-Holder- Bed/dp/...](https://www.amazon.com/Gooseneck-Tablet-Mount-Holder- Bed/dp/B07Y84SCR6)

Hope this is helpful. Let me know if you have any more questions about our findings:)

<comment><USER7> Why do you need airpods?

<comment><USER6> For the sound. If kids don't wear headphones it's impossible to hear. Also, this really helps with younger kids who already might be learning to pronounce words correctly

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Texas, Dallas: Nothing ground breaking, but I'll provide my anecdote as a possible antidote to survivor-bias:

I have 3 kids (5,3,1). The 5 year old was supposed to start public school this year, but her pre-school opened up a private kindergarten and we opted in.

When the pandemic first broke, we pulled our kids out for 2 months and it was hard for us and them. My wife worked in the morning when I had the kids and we swapped at noon, and finished up work after we put the kids down for bed.

We tried following some sort of curriculum for the first 2 weeks, but it fell apart pretty quick and devolved into me throwing the kids in a wagon and walking around the neighborhood then going in the backyard and pushing them on a swing. Anytime I had a meeting in the morning or my wife had one in the afternoon, we'd plop them in front of the TV then struggle pulling them away from it afterwards (google wifi is great for deus-ex-machina internet outages...).

It stings having to pay an extra $15k / yr, but for our kids learning and mental health I'd happily pay double. In my humble opinion, our teachers don't make near enough for the service they provide.

<comment><USER9> > we'd plop them in front of the TV then struggle pulling them away from it > afterwards (google wifi is great for deus-ex-machina internet outages...).

I can totally relate. One day our kids will figure out that our fiber internet service is actually quite reliable, and that I've been using the ASUS router app to disconnect specific devices at needed times. My 9 year old is starting to suspect something is amiss. "Daddy, can you stop buying chromebooks? Maybe you should buy another brand. It stops working all the time but your computer never stops working."

<comment><USER10> Really struggling with Zoom on a Dell Chromebook. It's 7-10 FPS, and outbound audio quality is often unusable. It shows this warning: "You CPU usage is affecting meeting quality". I guess it lacks a decent CPU to do video.

Closing all other apps helps a bit; I guess it lacks RAM too, or is using CPU to compress RAM? Still, sometimes outbound audio gets 5-30 seconds behind. Very disjoint experience. Not meant for the Zoom era.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> Young couple here with a 9yo living in a 900sqft apt. Both of us were fortunate enough to scrape by with above poverty income and government sponsored medical insurance while working from home. What have worked is... (1) 60 mins walk morning and evening, (2) 3 x 180 mins outdoor activity per week, (3) 3-5 x 60 mins tech tickets to be rewarded throughout the day for responsibilities and ability to reset emotions after an outburst; first ticket given in morning for just waking up on time and folding blankets, etc, (4) encourage hobbies such as coding, drawing, guitar, blender which keeps child occupied for a couple 1-2 hr and allow us to build our online business, (5) child diagnose w/ ocd, adhd, and likely mild autism, so we are always on our toes but the strict yet flexible schedule allow us to work with our child's personality, (6) sunday kid day! I think what helps the most is my child can combine hobby time + tech ticket to give me a few hours of uninterrupted time each day. I also try not to feel like the child is neglected and as a parent, I want to spend enough quality time with my child without regret. It's an uphill battle still after 2 years of home school. The toughest part is getting time to spend with your spouse but unlike us, you might be able ease things with family support.

<comment><USER6> I think it is so admirable that you've made such sacrifices to give your child the best education they can possibly have. Have you joined any homeschool co- ops or babysitting co-ops to give you and your partner a little time together?

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> I have a first grader. Our public school system, which is ordinarily great, has a very vague plan that begins with a hybrid system that operates two mornings a week.

In response, we teamed up with five other families of first graders in our area, and have contracted with a tutor to handle the other three-and-two-half days of the week. We may switch to the remote learning option, since it seems like 75% of their class will do that, which would the benefit of in-person social experiences, but simplify logistics. When not in school, the five kids will be in a basement apartment at one of the families' houses with the tutor, working on their distance learning.

We still have a zillion and a half things to iron out, but it's both progress and ridiculous.

<comment><USER13> Whoa. Must be interesting on the pandemic pods. I haven't heard first hand about this in any of the articles I've been reading about it.

Do all 5 families have some kind of agreement about safety and rules about exposing yourself? Or is it some friends that you trust? I'm always curious about the dynamics there.

<comment><USER12> We all know each other reasonably well, but we will be laying out an agreement that we all have to follow. The initial contract was just "we're in this, for better or worse, through the whole academic year."

We had a number of conversations before deciding to "pod up," and certainly before contracting with a teacher/tutor, so we have a sense of each person's risk tolerance. We agreed we were close enough to take this first step, and we'd iron out the rest later.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> Background: We're in the bay area and our kids are 10 and 8.

We were lucky enough to get an au pair right before the lockdowns started in our area (literally picked him up the night before local lockdowns went into effect). We've had really positive experiences with the au pair program in the past, and our current one has been great, so we've treated him really well. Because of that he's agreed to extend until next summer, and that application went through before visas were locked down. This means that there's a dedicated person here for the kids for 45 hours per week, or about 9 hours per weekday.

We have a decent sized house, but it's hard to get any real focus time because even with the au pair and school the kids don't really respect boundaries. So the kids do most of their schoolwork in their rooms or at the dining table. They work in blocks of about 2 hours, and I schedule breaks to coincide with theirs. During the breaks we try to go for a short walk or something to get the wiggles out, and then it's back to work. Tuesdays (and sometimes Thursdays) I go to my spouse's office where I can isolate and get some real work done until late. We trade that time for Fridays, when I stop work a couple hours early so the au pair can leave if he wants to. If I need to be able to really focus I leave the house and go to a park where I can tether and crank out some real work. This is difficult though, as I need 2 laptops and a phone to get work done.

This wasn't a traditional au pair experience, so we plan on some really nice thank you gifts for our au pair at the end of his contract, and hopefully we'll be back in school next fall and can go back to something a little more normal.

<comment><USER15> What is the cost and experience of having an au pair, like ?

<comment><USER14> This is actually our 10th au pair, so we've had a wide variety of experiences. Some good. Some bad.

The cost and contractual obligations are easy. Agency fees are usually around $9000 for a year for a brand new au pair (it's cheaper if you extend). That covers them overseeing all aspects of the program, like background checks, facilitating contact, and organizing events for the au pairs. You pay the au pair $200 / week. I'd say our total costs are in the area of $21k / year. You also need to provide a private room for them. A real room. They can work up to 45 hours per week, 10 hours per day, no overnights and they need 36 consecutive hours where they are off per week (where "off" means they can walk out the door and be gone for those 36 hours). The contract is usually for a full year, but can be extended for an additional 6 to 12 months.

Usually our au pairs are responsible for getting the kids to school, picking them up, taking them to activities, and making sure homework gets done. This year will be...... different.

You can set up family rules. You should provide these before you match so there are no surprises (surprises are usually bad for both parties). Our rules are pretty simple; no drugs, no drunk driving, ask before you use the car, be well rested and ready to work, when you leave give us a vague idea of where you'll be and when you'll be back so we know when and which ditches to start looking in if you don't return. I'm happy to supply a redacted copy of our rules if you're that interested.

You don't need to supply things like a car or phone, but getting the best au pairs is competitive (I understand right now it's ___extremely_ __competitive because nobody wants to, or can, come to the US). So we put together a kind of offer packet to make ourselves more appealing. We have a car dedicated for the au pair, but if they want to go more than 100 miles they need to pay for a service appointment. We provide a phone and a service plan. There 's a community pool. And we pay for various memberships to amusement parks and museums so they have stuff to do (both with the kids and during their off time).

If things are going really bad you can go into rematch. Either the family or the au pair can trigger it, but once that's triggered the au pair has 2-3 weeks to find a new family or they are sent back. You as the family can take as long as you need, but you'll be without an au pair until you get someone. It usually takes at least 6 weeks to get a new person from out of country. It's hard for au pairs to find a rematch if they cause the rematch, especially given the short timeframe, so often they have to take a less desirable position.

We've gone into rematch twice. The first was with our very first au pair. She was really uninterested in the job because she was preoccupied with boy issues back home. The final straw with her was lying about causing a couple thousand dollars in damage to our car. The second one was at the beginning of this year. We got our first au pair from China and when she got here her English was significantly worse than when we interviewed her. The kids had a lot of trouble connecting with her, but we finally triggered rematch because she took a car she wasn't insured on out for coffee when nobody else was around. It was the third time she had done it, and after each of the first two we had someone who was a native Mandarin speaker explain to her that she couldn't take it. So in both cases the real issue was about trusting them.

We thought about going into rematch a third time. We had an au pair that was really good with the kids, but she was shockingly racist, bigoted, and fascist (she outright said people of certain races and certain religions should be executed, and when we compared it to the Spanish Inquisition she had never heard of it and then claimed that that was fake history and had never happened). It warranted a lot of discussion between us (the parents) and we decided to occasionally ask the kids if they heard her say anything like that to them. As long as she kept those opinions to herself around them it wasn't a problem, and it led to a lot of interesting discussions. Ultimately I think we softened her views.

We also had one au pair who ended our contract early. Our son has ADHD and he was just being diagnosed, so she had a really hard time with him. She decided she just didn't want to work with kids. She gave us a couple months notice which made it easy to get a replacement for her.

All in all it's been a very positive experience for us. The kids have had a wide variety of experiences with other cultures. Most of our au pairs have been European, so they've had Spanish, German, Austrian, French, and Polish influences. Our current one is our first male au pair (most agencies won't accept men), and he's been fantastic. He's from Brazil, so it's been an interesting new experience for the kids. My best friend married one of our au pairs (they were about 2 years apart in age) and moved to Austria with her. We stay in contact with most of them (even the rematches; our last rematch texted me last week asking for a couple of my recipes). We've also set up little vacation "franchises" around the world, and have traveled to Europe with the kids to visit ex-au pairs a couple times.

Happy to answer any more specific questions.

<comment><USER15> Great reply, thanks for the detailed information. Quite obviously during this time, having a live in au pair would have been helpful. I would be interested in seeing the specific rules you made, from experience (email is slightly obfuscated in my profile). I wouldn't be able to afford the 21k/yr price tag, even if that is a really good price.

<comment><USER14> I separated the cost issue so it wasn't lost in the other wall of text.

I use a DCFSA ([https://www.fsafeds.com/explore/dcfsa](https://www.fsafeds.com/explore/dcfsa)) to pay for it. Au pair expenses are a valid expense for this. Our marginal income tax rate is around 35%, so this helps a lot.

      Without DCFSA:
        Pre-tax Cost:  ~$32,300
        Post-tax Cost:  $21,000

      With DCFSA:
        Pre-tax Cost:   $21,000
        Post-tax Cost: ~$13,650

This is all an estimate of course (like increased insurance or rent on a larger place can't be paid for using a DCFSA), but it makes the point. So I think of the cost as around $13,650 for 45 hours / week, 50 weeks / year, 2250 hours in total. No matter how many kids you have.

If that big chunk is hard to swallow, the agency fees are ~$8000, and most agencies will let you break that up into a payment plan. The au pair is paid $200 each week, so that ~$10,000 is naturally spread out. The remainder is what we estimated our additional costs to be, like food, insurance, etc. and that gets spread out as well.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> I've been surprised at how well our 4 y.o daughter has adjusted to the online world, on the whole. Whilst not all of our friends' children have the same experience, I've noticed it's fairly common for children we know (at least of this age) to quickly adapt to making friends and socializing and learning through Zoom/Skype/etc.

Mornings are spent on "Kid's Club" via [https://www.modulo.app](https://www.modulo.app) , which is a fairly new startup that provides online spaces for kids to learn together, hang out together, etc. My daughter has made a number of new friends through that and she's able to do a lot of the same stuff she was doing before (art, learning apps, etc), but in a more social way. Sometimes she gets to help other kids when they get stuck with their learning apps, and visa versa, which is fun. We're likely to expand this to some of the afternoon too, since they're adding a Spanish program.

Overall, I've noticed that her development has thrived since she's moved to a more self-paced environment. There's been no sign that using screens a lot is causing any problems. We've set up an iPad on an adjustable goose-neck stand so she can (and does) run around a lot and her friends can still see her. We also make sure there's time outside for exercise.

We've found a lot of good online resources, generally free or very cheap, such as Cosmic Kids Yoga, Draw Every Day with JJK, Mo Willems Doodles, and Khan Academy Kids. We've also discovered kids coding apps, like CodeSpark and SpriteBox, that have been a big hit. The teacher at Modulo.app does a good job of helping us find resources for stuff our daughter takes an interest in, and we share stuff we find with them too.

We're both full-time parents, and certainly we're not as productive as we were before, but for me it's a totally acceptable compromise. I get to be more involved in my child's development and I get to see her much more than I did before. One key thing is to have carefully planned schedules for everyone in the house. Kids are generally much happier when they have a schedule, and it also means as parents we know when we can arrange meetings, do live coding, and so forth.

We're very lucky to have these options. I know a lot of parents just don't have the ability to work from home, or to reduce their working hours to spend more time with their children.

<comment><USER17> is modulo.app the official app endorsed by school? or are you homeschooling?

<comment><USER6> Hi:) I can answer this. I'm the founder of Modulo. Modulo can be used as a supplement or replacement for school. If families want to use it as a replacement, they need to register as homeschoolers, but we help families make sure their kids are on track academically and developmentally. feel free to be in touch if you have any questions. My email is email@example.com

<comment><USER18> This is a great idea. You probably would get more business if you didn't have workshops for 'undoing white supremacy' and 'racismo'

Many of the ppl that will be homeschooling are doing so bc of the blm education being introduced in schools- it isn't just about covid.

[https://www.modulo.app/notmyidea](https://www.modulo.app/notmyidea)

<comment><USER6> We are very proud of introducing diversity and inclusion into our program. It's of critical importance that we learn to think deeply about the systemic racism in our society - as students and educators. A good education is well- rounded and helps children understand history and social systems in a broad way, not limited to a certain group or perspective. Race, racial tensions and inequity are some of the biggest issues facing society today. Our kids are worried about it and they are the ones who are going to be helping change the way our society runs. They need to be prepared to think about this, analyze multiple view points and make intelligent and informed decisions. Hiding it from them will help no one. Education is about illumination, not casting shadows over what is happening and what has happened before us. While some may be leaving the school system because schools are finally addressing these issues, many also are homeschooling because they feel these topics are not adequately integrated into our curriculum.

<comment><USER19> Focusing on race is what keeps people focusing on race. It's fundamentally divisive. Teaching children to think of everything in terms of race is the biggest factor in perpetuating racism.

I suppose there is a market for that, and you're serving it, making money as you divide society.

<comment><USER20> That is exactly why it's important for kids to learn about that divide, and to break through it. To understand the experience of other people, to recognise the injustice of it, and to do something to change that.

The division is caused by treating with different skin colour or ethnic background as lesser, or as criminals. Pretending it doesn't exist doesn't make it go away. It's real, and it needs to be addressed. Making kids more aware of that is absolutely important.

<comment><USER19> Human minds don't work that way. They learn, but not always what you intend for them to learn.

If the kid is white, possible learning outcomes include:

a. self-hate, leading to depression and self-harm

b. reading between the lines, learning that to be normal he must be racist against black people, because that is just how white people are

c. rage at being disfavored by every diversity initiative, leading to a desire for revenge

If the kid is black, possible learning outcomes include:

a. hatred toward white people due to being told that white people are to blame for all the bad in life

b. giving up on life because the world seems so racist that life is hopeless

c. deciding that if most people believe he is prone to crime, it is probably true or he might as well make it true

Most of the above will be recognized by both sides as "othering" that is enough to prevent friendship. That's what is being taught, even if not intended.

<comment><USER20> I think you've got this exactly backwards. We have already seen what not teaching people about this leads to: a continuation of the racism. Kids get taught racism, consciously and unconsciously, intentionally and unintentionally. By default, we tend to reinforce the patterns we see. We need more awareness of the old patterns in order to change them.

Of course you shouldn't teach them self-hate, depression and that sort of thing, but you can teach black and white kids to unite against those old patterns that have kept them separate, to have them work together, to teach them they are equals.

I keep seeing too many excuses not to tackle racism, but that means it will continue to exist and hold new generations back.

You don't solve problems by ignoring them. Of course you should also not solve them by making them worse. So you should absolutely look critically at the _way_ in which kids are taught about this, but it's important to make kids aware that this is something that has held previous generations back, and they shouldn't be held back the same way. Sheltering kids from history is not going to make them learn from it, and as we know, people who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

<comment><USER19> That just isn't how humans learn. You think you are teaching to not hate, but they learn that hate is normal. They want to be normal. You teach that diversity is important, but they learn that they are the undesirables or that they don't have to try in life. Just focusing on the differences puts them on different teams, and thus in opposition. It won't be otherwise.

We have seen what teaching people about this leads to, because we've been doing it for decades, and the result is not a lack of racism. You don't solve racial division with racial division.

Most of these efforts do shelter kids from history. Kids learn a false narrative that slavery was just evil white southerners enslaving black people. Nothing is said of the fact that the first slaveowner in the pre-USA colonies was a black person named Anthony Johnson, or that free blacks in the USA often owned slaves, or that black slaves were purchased from black people in Africa, or that the very term "slave" comes from the white Slavic people, or that black Africans are still being sold today, or that enslavement (generally, and particularly of black people) is endorsed by a major world religion.

<comment><USER20> Teaching not to hate is hard to do. Instead, teach everybody is different, and that that is normal. Teach them that people have different looks, different backgrounds, different religions, different believes and personal convictions, and that that is normal. Expose kids to those differences, so they won't see different people as Other.

Don't make it an us-vs-them thing, but unite them. Let them embrace those differences.

<comment><USER19> Differences will be ranked, and they will be used to form teams.

You can't stop human nature. At best, you can divert it to something less problematic, like nationalism. If everybody is on Team USA, then there is no room for racism.

We will never eliminate the urge to judge, rank, and exclude. It's very deeply in our DNA. All the social mammals have the urge.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> The whole thing is fubar. We're doing our public school's virtual school for our 3 elementary age children. I don't see how its sustainable. This age group cannot do school by themselves, so my wife and I are having to do school while also trying to keep our work going. My productivity is just going to be shot.

This is day one, but here's what I'm going to try this week: 1). Get up earlier. I'm going to try to be in front of my computer with coffee by 5:30am. I'm hoping I can log a couple solid hours of work before I have to punch in for school. 2). Long lunch for the kids. Their school schedule only gives them 50 minutes, but the school is going to have to deal with it. I'm going to do 90 minutes so I can try to focus on work while inhaling a sandwich or something. 3) Bourbon when the kids are sleep.

I really hope we can get a rhythm and my kids can pick up some study skills where we don't have to be so hands-on.

<comment><USER22> Your proposed schedule will also need time for burnout and therapy. Maybe not a good plan...

You're going to have to let something slide. Choose one priority and then fit what you can into the time that's left, and accept that it doesn't all fit. I hope you choose your child as your priority, but you'll find your own way. Good luck.

<comment><USER6> I agree. Everyone knows that this is hard. And I think you should definitely consider asking your school to give you some leeway or change the schedule to make it work better for your kids. I know a lot of parents who have asked their companies and their schools to accommodate to what they needed and were surpised at the flexibility they found. This is a new situation for everyone. Ask for what you need and you might be surprised by the answer.

<comment><USER6> I'd also add that kids learn a lot faster with 1-1 instruction than in a group setting, so if you want to consider homeschooling, you might find that you only need to teach them an hour or two a day and that will be more than enough to keep them at or above grade level. The rest of the time they can plan and enjoy being kids. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mastery_learning](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mastery_learning)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> One of our two kids is 17 with special needs. I hope she will be able to attend in-person, daily. Her class sizes are already small and online learning isn't really effective as it's a modified, non-academic program she is in.

The other is 16 and will be attending in person every other day for half a day (1/4 of the time) and doing synchronous, online the rest of the time. She is attending an online summer school course this month to get the hang of things.

(context: Canadian, kids go to public school in Toronto)

</comment><comment><USER6> Hi all, I just wanted to offer my support to anyone who needs help thinking this through...I've been a teacher for 15 years, and also the founder of schoolclosures.org (which has helped over 100,000 families impacted by school closures. This fall, I started offering digital learning pods (for social interaction) combined with mastery learning (personalized recommendations for learning apps for independent study + 1-1 tutoring) for families impacted by school closures (Modulo.app) I've worked with hundreds of families looking to enrich their child's learning as a supplement or replacement to school. I'd be happy to talk to any family looking for support in figuring out what to do this fall. Every family's situation is unique and it can be helpful to speak to someone who has experience in the area. I know this has been really stressful and confusing for all - f anyone would like to talk (free of charge), I'd be happy to lend an ear and advise as best I can on education, homeschooling, curriculum, social-emotional concerns, financial security or anything related to school or working from home with kids. My email is firstname.lastname@example.com

</comment><comment><USER24> I have 2 in elementary and one in middle school. Our public schools will supposedly open physical classes with an online option as well. You need to pick and commit to one. I'm strongly in the physical camp for many reasons, most importantly the online school in the spring was garbage and a lack of socialization at this age is a very real and serious public health concern-for healthy young kids with no underlying health issues maybe as important as COVID itself.

That said I personally don't schools will stay open until even Christmas and don't know what our next step will be. We've investigated private school as the class sizes are much smaller and they have far more flexibility and motivation to make in person learning work.

Context: western Canada with big public school classes and very few cases, the majority impacting very old and those with previous health concerns

<comment><USER25> > lack of socialization at this age is a very real and serious public health > concern

(No offense intended) I keep hearing this and wonder what proof we have of this? I have two kids, one introvert, one extrovert and neither seem to have been impacted. Sure they'd like to hang out with friends, but they're basically the same personality/kids/temperament they had pre-pandemic.

<comment><USER26> Not a parent, but fwiw even the fully grown adults I've interacted with are starting to show serious deficits in social skills after months of relative isolation. I've historically been on the socially awkward side, so its kind of refreshing to be the comparatively graceful one.

I don't know if there's evidence, but if this were to go on for years I could see kids missing milestones. Having gone to school with kids who were homeschooled without proper socialization for too long, I can comfortably say social skills need to be learned. It may not seem like much, but not knowing how to interact with peers comfortably is a serious problem, especially as you start to enter situations like interviewing for a job or trying to make friends in a new city.

<comment><USER27> > Not a parent, but fwiw even the fully grown adults I've interacted with are > starting to show serious deficits in social skills after months of relative > isolation. I've historically been on the socially awkward side, so its kind > of refreshing to be the comparatively graceful one.

Huh? I've not experienced this at all with anyone I've seen during the pandemic - even with people who I've only talked online with. This includes people who have basically not seen anyone in person for months and aren't working.

What are these "serious deficits in social skills" you're noticing in adults?

<comment><USER26> At the few socially distanced gatherings I've been too, as well as when running into people in the streets, there's been a lack of the usual nuance and care that I typically expect. That's mainly expressed through less careful filtering, either of direct content or indirect content. E.g. evidence of marital strife that would normally be papered over more effectively might come out. Words are chosen less carefully causing unintended meaning to leak out. What might normally be a 'we' turns into 'me' and 'her'.

An example from this weekend, I ran into a colleague in town who is having a hard time - his roommate moved back East in May and the core parts of his social group are either immunocompromised or left the area shortly before his current absent roommate moved in. He was having trouble masking how anxious he was. There were untimely interjections. He mentioned wishing he could talk to people who didn't work for our company - it's a company town and no one our age/socioeconomic class (that's an ugly thought but I won't go down that rabbit hole) works anywhere else. I would expect him to be more nuanced in expressing the idea of hating small talk with people that work at our company, given we were actively making small talk and I work at said company.

Maybe serious is a stretch, but I'm seeing the typical CS/engineer social deficits expressed in people who are in sales/management roles and in people who previously were more capable. It probably wouldn't stand out in San Francisco or a tech school campus, but in my current circumstances it certainly does.

This isn't a judgment of anyone involved - everyone I've talked about I love to death. As a socially awkward person myself, I tend to love and appreciate other socially awkward people. They just might run into challenges when the stakes are higher.

<comment><USER27> > there's been a lack of the usual nuance and care that I typically expect. > That's mainly expressed through less careful filtering, either of direct > content or indirect content.

I wouldn't call those behaviors "socially awkward". Given the time we're in - I think people realize there's little reason to try to save face. In all likelihood, they're trying to be more real about things they're facing because they realize everyone is dealing with a lot of the same shit.

You might also see people reaching out more than they did before (in terms of depth of interaction/complaints - less superficial) because - well - <USER2> can't socialize as much with others. They might start socializing with people more intimately than in the past because it's what they have available.

None of the stuff you're saying sounds very... socially awkward. It just sounds more honest...

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER28> Our school district made everyone decide if we were going to send the kids in or keep them home for remote school. My kid is in junior high, and did pretty good with remote school, so we decided to start the year at home.

I already worked from home so that wasn't a change. One thing that did change right at the beginning of lockdown was that I got diagnosed with a chronic illness that requires treatment that makes me immunocompromised, so that played a role in the decision.

<comment><USER22> Sorry for your illness, and I wish the best for your family!

</comment></comment><comment><USER29> Our school district is 100% distance learning for now. If you find yourself in a similar situation, here are some tips we have found helpful, especially for our 2nd grader:

1) Print out the daily/weekly schedule for the student, and put it up on the wall somewhere. This is one less tab they have to keep open and refer to constantly. Also, a second copy helps parents keep on top of the kids schedule. A color printer here is a huge benefit. We have an HP Color LaserJet Pro M255dw, and it's amazing.

2) Get a headset with a microphone; aim for comfort more than style. Something over-ear with a cushioned headband. They're going to be wearing it all day, and earbuds can fall out of small ears. My 7yo daughter looks like an airline pilot with hers on. They're huge, but she loves them.

3) Encourage your child not to panic when something goes wrong. Adults are much better equipped to handle meeting malfunction than kids. They won't get an unexcused absence or other demerit because of a computer malfunction. The kids extend grace to the teacher when they see it, and they'll be treated in kind.

<comment><USER5> Which headphones did you go with?

<comment><USER29> We went with the "Bopmen Computer Headset with Microphone" (wired, not wireless). So far so good.

<comment><USER5> Oh, with the built in microphone option! Great idea.

Thanks for that recommendation!

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER30> My wife is a stay at home parent and taught my daughter for the last 3 months of the school year last year. My daughter (then in the 4th grade) was attending a private school in the Chicago suburbs. The transition was decent, with her school already having a 1:1 laptop program and Google Classroom integration into her curriculum. The only change was that 4th graders didn't take their chromebooks home, but when school was abruptly closed, the laptops came with. All of her subjects had asynchronous work pages or chapter questions, asynchronous reading, asynchronous projects, and then synchronous instruction, synchronous classmate discussion/talk/project time, and synchronous project presentations. My daughter's grades improved slightly, likely from the additional focus given the lack of classroom distractions at home. My wife was available to answer immediate questions while I was working from home in most subjects, although I helped out when additional perspectives were needed to learn the material (my wife and I had very different education experiences, so our methods tend to be divergent).

This year we had the option of a similar remote program for the first semester or in-person, with the commitment lasting until the grading period is over. We're very fortunate to have one parent who can easily dedicate time during the day and a program conducive to remote learning. I can only imagine the sleepless schedules that would be involved in a less structured online program or with both parents working.

The major reason for not moving to home schooling this year is to guarantee our place at the private school for 6th/7th/8th grade without a significant donation to get back in. It is sorta unfortunate to pay extra to home school our kid, but we enjoy the community in-person when that was available. We're lucky we're in a position to be able to choose this.

</comment><comment><USER31> We tried virtual via our daughter's private school and were really disappointed.

We are going to home-school with a private teacher.

We also found a couple of other families that we'll consider play-dates or select group lessons with.

<comment><USER32> Like a traditional live-in governess (governor?)?

Clever, since they're then part of your family bubble. Must be expensive though!

<comment><USER31> She does not live with us. We have a great relationship with her and are confident that we're aligned on the importance of social distancing. I'm in an at-risk group which makes it especially important that we protect ourselves.

She's been working for our family for a bit over a year. We originally hired her as a full-time nanny when wife decided to do a dev bootcamp.

She has a bachelors in early childhood education/development and is personally interested in crafting positive developmental experiences for kids. Our girls really appreciate her and get a lot of value (and education) from the time they spend together. We'll supplement her efforts with more structure in the form of a curriculum.

It is very expensive (relative to our income). We live cheaply and don't do many luxuries. It made sense for us to invest in high-quality childcare for our girls.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER33> Massachusetts: our school district is offering a choice between full-remote and hybrid week-in/week-remote programs, but noting that at least the first 2 months will be all-remote for everyone. Since our kids are of reasonable age, we asked them and accepted their preferences for all-remote. They get to change their minds at the end of the first semester.

</comment><comment><USER25> Home-schooling. Our public school system can't get its stuff together.

</comment><comment><USER34> I will start by saying I had the easiest possible situation to start with, and 100% acknowledge that privilege. My wife is a stay at home mom and I've worked from home for five years, and have an office with a door (and we have a yard). Also neither kid was in formal schooling yet in March. One was in preschool, which just shut its doors March 18th and gave us refunds, and the other is only three.

During the summer we enrolled the five year old in weekly art camp (all over Zoom). She had fun doing art and it kept her busy for a good chunk of the day. The camp was only an hour but then she'd spend a bunch of hours afterwards finish the project. She's enrolled in their after school program now which starts in a couple weeks.

She was supposed to start Kindergarten this year, but since we're in California, that's all remote over Google Meet. Right now she has a 1 hour Meet in the morning, and that's it. Starting next week there will be three meets throughout the day, once with the whole class and then two small groups with the teacher or a parent.

So far it's working out. The kinder teacher is embracing online learning and has good activities that work over Meet, and she's totally cool with younger siblings joining in (because apparently 1/2 the class has a younger sibling).

Beyond that, the kids just play with each other all day, and sometimes I take a break to play with them. My wife gets to work on her own projects but has to take frequent breaks to mediate their playtime or help them transition activities.

We have a rule in the house of no electronics when the sun is up. Sometimes we let them break the rule to play educational games, especially right now during the heat wave when they can't even go in the yard. But the rule is a good fallback when they want to use electronics: "Sorry, sun's still up!".

Also we're super lax about cleaning up toys, so I can't walk in a straight line in my house anymore. There are toys everywhere. But it's a small price to pay to avoid the daily clean up arguments!

</comment><comment><USER35> Here: 8-year old twins with very different interests, school system fully remote for at least first 8 weeks, they are in different classes (it is the best solution, although 2x work for us). I have the weirder schedule (consultant, flexible hours with unmovable deliverable commitments)and my husband has mornings available. 1. We chose to keep them in public school, remote. 2 We chose to keep their nanny for an extra year to help with school (she has a psych degree and education experience) 3. We've set them up on the dinning room table, and 30 minutes into it realized we'll need to split them physically and get headphones with mics(no solution yet for physical separation)

We have loved: teachers who are technically adept.

Suggestions: Can you get a mobile wifi take one kid out at a time to do school outside? (This assume you are also in an area you can be outside in a safe way, between COVID and heat)

Can you and your partner talk to your companies and change your work hours? Are your employers on board with "this is not working from home, this is being at home during a pandemic, attempting to work"?

Have you found a way to prioritize some personal time daily/weekly so you two do not burn out to a crisp?

What we hate: the complete disruption. We are not great at teaching our kids, not because of lousy skill (we both taught college), but lousy patience teaching a young age group. We have done a lot of "learning on the go" this summer--for example: taking kids into a river, talking about currents, water sources, why stones in rivers are round, ecosystems, etc. Or playing with Gravitrax to explore gravity, friction, the topography of our 100 yr old house's living room (and why /how construction settles). But it is hard and it is not "curricular & organized"

We are also in a socioeconomic group that can afford a nanny, and have professions that have allowed for flexibility. We have had it "easy".

There is no way to overstate the sheer hellish hell of choices this all can be, and YMMV with anything I wrote here.

</comment><comment><USER36> Back when everyone went stay at home, my daughters Montessori school started zoom lessons. It was quite hectic to be doing work from home and keeping the kids in the right zoom room.

I spent time teaching my daughter different topics and used workbooks over the summer. She is in good shape for the start of school.

Right now the school is bringing kids back in, but giving them the option to do remote learning. I am going for the in person learning. Each kid is getting their own workspace, and they have to wear masks when they are not at their workspace.

If they were not considering in-person learning, I would probably opt to get some families together to create one of those learning pods.

</comment><comment><USER37> We're in a tough spot because my wife has struggled with chronic respiratory infections and is in the high-risk patient population. But our youngest has special needs and remote learning can't provide the educational support he needs (though damn the teachers are awesome and creative and trying all they can).

First three weeks are remote for all students in my district, but we'll have some hard choices ahead balancing health and education needs. Seems so much these days is choosing between options that are all far, far from ideal.

Oh, and we live in Texas where 7,500 new cases/day are still being reported.

<comment><USER6> Hi Todd, there is a group that might help you. It's a homeschooling group for children with special needs. Since many parents have pulled their kids out to address special needs, these parents have a huge wealth of knowledge about how to homeschool neurodiverse children. [https://www.facebook.com/groups/homeschoolingpoppies/](https://www.facebook.com/groups/homeschoolingpoppies/)

What curriculum or learning apps have you tried so far? Some are better suited to different types of educational needs than others. I'd be happy to recommend some resources that might be helpful and also can connect you to specialists and tutors who are volunteering for free to help kids with special needs during the crisis.

Please let me know if I can be of support in any way I can.

</comment></comment><comment><USER38> Negros Occidental, Philippines: I'm a US citizen, married, ops engineer with two kids (ages 9 and 2). I've been WFH for 5 years before the pandemic, so I'm an old hand at remote work.

I'm going to homeschool the eldest myself for the first time. I actually know a lot about homeschooling because of circumstances I won't explain here, but I've never done it before and my wife and I were both educated at public and private schools from K through university.

Down here, I work about 4 solid and productive hours a day with only very occasional Zoom meetings, most of my team interaction is done over email, Discord, or Slack. I have a degree in the humanities so I've been spending the past few weeks designing a curriculum. It will revolve heavily around reading real books (no textbooks) and we'll be using Khan Academy for Math, I will handle the Science and Biology. Most of the books I will be using I've found for free on archive.org and follow the contours (but not the letter) of the Charlotte Mason curriculum book recommendations.

Doing this schedule isn't as hard as it is for some families because of the time differential: we're UTC +8, 12 hours ahead of EST. So I plan to do homeschool in the morning, while it's evening hours in the US, and be finished by lunchtime here, then work most of the afternoon when it's overnight in the States, and send all the status emails at the end of my day when they'll be only a few hours old when EST wakes up. It works great for me so far.

</comment><comment><USER39> Do you have an option (family, friends, whatever) to stay for a while somewhere else?

I have a kid in middle school. While it's less than perfect, it wasn't that bad even in peak lockdown. We have a big house with a big backyard and there are lots of big parks in town. If there is any possibility (even on a rental basis) to go to the middle of the country, you might look into that. (Don't worry, nobody's ever died of boredom from being more than 50 miles from the coast, in spite of what some might have told you.)

<comment><USER22> Yes, country living makes home school easier.

</comment></comment><comment><USER40> I recently quit my job as a programmer and have taken the task of overseeing the kids education while my wife works. She is on Zoom meetings literally all day and then works until midnight, so me quitting alleviates most of the stress on the both of us.

We are home schooling them full time and pulled them out of private school. We are right now going through the process of figuring out their schedule, but we have also hired a home school consultant who is simply invaluable. We are trying to come up with a schedule for the school year as we speak.

Our son is profoundly gifted with behavior issues so he has special needs that frankly make it easier when he's home schooled, but the pandemic is making his social isolation worse, so we need to figure that out. This year will probably be messed up for everyone so experimenting this year won't be that much worse even if we mess up home schooling.

We also have resources available through Davidson and John Hopkins' CTY, so they will be taking courses through that. We'll try our best but we also know that this is a once in a decade situation that everyone is suffering from, so we're not putting too much pressure on ourselves to get it perfect. Most notably is the social isolation, so figuring that out is important for us.

<comment><USER6> Hi, I'd love to know the name of our homeschool consultant (and I'm sure others would as well) if you're willing to share.

With regards to social isolation, if you're interested, we run a digital learning pod to help kids stay connected and develop social-emotional skills online. We meet twice a week and activities are designed to keep all members participating actively and engaging with each other and the facilitator. Kids facetime and skype outside the group and meet up for interest-based groups as well. It's working so well that some kid who had no friends at school when they were meeting kids in person now have developed wonderful friends with kids in the group.

Several of our kids are highly gifted or have other considerations. If you'd like to try it out, we'd love to have your son in our group. It's a unique challenge helping kids feel connected using an online medium, but we've discovered, not impossible and can even increase the diversity of the group since kids can connect from all around the world.

Here's also another article I wrote on Staying Connected which might be helpful. [https://www.modulo.app/all- resources/onlineconnections](https://www.modulo.app/all- resources/onlineconnections)

</comment></comment><comment><USER41> My wife and I homeschool our children. We are part of a local homeschool co- op, and the kids love it.

I've been working fully remote for a year and a half, and homeschooling doesn't hinder my remote work in any way. I periodically have a "break-in", where one of the kids barges into the office during a meeting, but it's no more interruption than any other common interruption (e.g. someone comes in late, someone pardons themself to the restroom, etc.).

</comment><comment><USER42> Between us my girlfriend and I have four kids (12,9,5,5) that live with us full time.

The 12 year old is doing fully virtual/remote which was fine this spring and we expect no trouble.

The elementary schools in our state are all enforcing masks all day, no cafeteria (lunch in the classroom), avoiding all interactions with students not in your homeroom, maintain 6', etc.

This will all add up to something untenable for our 9 year old, he's got sensory and social issues and it's just an impossible environment.

The virtual option this spring was also largely impossible for him due to the same issues (combined with the uninspired way the school approached it).

The upshot is that we're homeschooling our 9,5,5 kids, the two youngest being in kindergarten this is basic stuff we'd be doing anyway, sight words and addition/subtraction.

We're in a house in the country so when it all becomes too much being cooped up together we just throw them out in the yard and lick the doors. :-) j/k

(No seriously we sometimes actually do this for 20 minutes...)

</comment><comment><USER22> My children will go to public school. Until their class has a positive case and then... We'll see.

They are 8 and 10, and honestly, digital learning and communication tools were a total flop last year when they spent 8 weeks at home.

All we can do is give then love and stability to let them know it's ok not to know the answer... Not to the homework, and not to covid either.

</comment><comment><USER43> We are doing distance learning in a small pod with a caregiver with our elementary schooler. We are rotating houses. The most difficult part, surprisingly, is finding other families with the same needs as you (age, cost, siblings, distancing level).

I chose to go pod since it adds a little more socialization without nearly as much risk as a larger group.

<comment><USER6> For what it's worth (I've helped create dozens of pods), it's sometimes good to be really specific about what your pod is (not to be everything to everyone) and then post about it in your local facebook parenting groups. I'm also happy to help get the word out if you need support. I know tons of parents looking for pods:)

</comment></comment><comment><USER44> We're online only until at least October, but we've opted in to a full year of remote learning regardless of what the school does.

I've switched to stay-at-home Dad mode and work on side projects in my spare time.

My kids are just old enough to be able to manage most of their school work on their own.

I feel pretty lucky considering some of the tough choices others are having to make rn.

</comment><comment><USER20> We had our lockdown in April and May, including homeschooling our two kids of 5 and 11. We're fortunate to have a pretty big house for a city, but still space could be cramped: we have a parents' bedroom, living room and balcony upstairs, and a children's bedroom and large work/game/guest/second livingroom downstairs.

Quite often, my wife was working upstairs, I downstairs, my oldest son in his room, and my youngest son was mostly playing and watching TV with the occasional school-related lesson on a tablet. On Thursdays, our cleaner would come, and we all had to cram into half the house while she cleaned the other half, or we had to leave the house. Sometimes we ended up working in bed or on the balcony.

My oldest son was quite capable of doing his own schoolwork, though he's always finished way too quickly and spent the rest of the day gaming, so this made his gaming addiction a lot worse in retrospect, but at the time, he didn't need much attention. Or youngest did, though. It's hard to work when a 5-year-old wants your attention. But our regular babysitter had all her other babysitting jobs and restaurant jobs cancelled, so eventually we hired her 3 days a week to entertain and teach our youngest, and that worked very well. I still ended up shifting a lot of work to the evenings and weekends, which works fine: play with your kids during the day, work in the evening. There's not much else to do anyway.

So the isolation wasn't perfect because of outside help, but that did make it bearable. We always kept a lot of distance from our cleaner (who always wore masks and gloves), and the babysitter didn't have much else going on in her life anymore, so we figured she wasn't a big risk.

So I guess that's my advice: adopt a near-permanent babysitter. There are probably plenty who are currently our of a job, and as long as they don't do much else than babysit at your place and go back to their own home, they're not a big risk. Get someone responsible, though; not a party animal.

</comment><comment><USER45> I'm a little confused at the current situation in the US. It seems in the UK that the priority will be to get schools back full time in September. My kids have been in school 2 days for the last few weeks before summer and just had a couple of days in a tennis camp. Are most US schools going remote for the foreseeable future?

I'm a single parent so have been working a full time software architect job from home while looking after the kids 3 days a week. To start with we did quite a lot of learning but it dropped off to survival half way through lockdown, they were 4 and 6 so couldn't work independently. It's been a tough year so feeling pleased we've done as well as we have. I really feel getting the kids back in some kind of social environment with some kind of education is an absolute priority for us right now. Let's see what happens!

<comment><USER6> I think a lot of people in the US are concerned about health risks and the way social distancing policies are being put in place. We have still far from flattened the curve in this country - and there is a lot of new research showing that kids carry the disease as much as adults. As a teacher, this doesn't surprise me since little kid diseases always seem to affect us adults much worse than it does them.

<comment><USER45> I can't assume there will be much social distancing at school. My ex-wife has had the illness once but suffered no ill affects, slight cold for 2 days so it's possible the kids and I have had it although they isolated for 2 weeks with me around then. She works in a busy hospital. I have very little contact with anyone as a work from home dev.

Any contact with the grandparents is likely to be carefully controlled and they won't stay in our house. Things do seem to be improving now in Europe, but going downhill in American, good luck guys.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER46> I do not have children (I cannot immagine what my co-workers with young children are doing to manage the lack of public school infrastructure), however I'm surprised bespoke online private schools aren't popping up like crazy.

It seems so ideal to just hire a bunch of professional tutors or college students to have dedicated one on one time with each student for their perspective subjects each day. What's most critical and missing from remote school now is one on one feedback and help. Heck, you could even wrap comprehensive PSAT, SAT and testing prep in with the package.

Public school systems obviously don't have a good approach - IMO primary school education is more essential to get right than your college education. It's much harder to re-define fundamentals down the road.

</comment><comment><USER47> We also live in an apartment. During quarantine we divided our time with our four year old 50/50\. Our main bedroom became an office the kid wasn't allowed to enter while either of us were working. No electronics with the exception of Skype time with grandparents, just a lot of playing, reading, physical exercises and the like. Since opening up, we still divide time 50/50 but take the kid for walks and cultural activities conducted in a safe manner that have been moved to the main city park and plazas to maintain distance. Our city has a lot of space for kids to roam carelessly and free. School are scheduled to open in September, so no change there.

Location: Oviedo, Spain

</comment><comment><USER48> My kids will be in 9th and 7th grade. My school district is starting 100% distance learning. I did opt for hybrid when it's available.

I'm setting up study areas in the house for the kids that are away from each other and me. I'm going to get comfortable headphones for their school-issued Chromebooks.

The plan is instructional blocks that include webinars, basically, along with some study time with the teacher available online. They can come up to my office if they have questions as well.

I built out my home office to mirror my work office this past spring, so I'm pretty well setup to be a remote employee and hopefully the quiet spaces I setup for the kids will be good for their remote learning.

<comment><USER49> "I'm going to get comfortable headphones for their school-issued Chromebooks"

Have you researched this yet? I'm having a hard time finding good headphones for children.

<comment><USER6> We tried out everything available and ultimately went with Airpod pro. They seemed to be the most comfortable for kids and also easiest to jump and move around. Wirecutter also wrote an article on this. [https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/best-kids- headpho...](https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/best-kids-headphones/)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER50> We're on my developer salary in a modest Chicago suburb house, which is enough for us by itself, so my wife was able to leave her job to focus on our 6yo daughter full time, with little financial concerns. We can pretty much last like this indefinitely, if nothing changes.

We were living in the Bay Area a few years ago, and then a couple of years in Chicago itself, I'm very thankful we happen to find ourselves in a more affordable area as this is going on, because everything would have been much trickier...

</comment><comment><USER51> I have one son in elementary school. Since the school system switched to online learning, it's been a mixed bag. Having our son around all day is quite nice, and we have fun, however, he's not learning much from the online experience at all, so we have to teach everything ourselves. Before, it was just a matter of supplementing what the teacher taught. Assignments are overwhelmingly negative: They're all slide decks. It feels like office work for both the child and the parent. My son was sick of making slides by the end of the school year and I don't blame him.

Net result: We will be sending him to school once it opens.

</comment><comment><USER52> Homeschool for the very advanced older of our two elementary kids, done by one partner who's also going to be working from home, kind of. Many worries about that, including 1) will that actually work out OK?, and 2) if it does will that one end up _so_ far ahead that we're now stuck homeschooling forever? Sort of a good problem to have but also... not a good problem to have.

Middle kid's going in, at least until they probably shut down in a month or two. Youngest is going to grandparents whom we very much hope we don't give The COVID, but none of the rest is happening if that one's home. No way.

<comment><USER53> Been homeschooling mine for 15 years now. The fact that you're concerned about #1 means you're going to be just fine. Engaged and caring parents make great homeschoolers. It's the apathetic parents I've known that fail to educate their children.

<comment><USER6> Here here! And the best think about the homeschooling community is people like you who cheer others on and support them! :)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER54> Home schooling. We live in one of the better school districts in the region (and pay dearly for it), and we were pretty displeased with the public schools already.

Between politics being increasingly injected into public school curriculum, lack of ability to come up with a workable solution during COVID19, and just overall poor performance of the program we've had enough and have decided to opt out.

Luckily we're able to afford having my spouse be a stay at home parent, and we plan to move to get out of the high COL associated with the supposedly great schools.

<comment><USER6> This crisis has exacerbated many of the problems that already existed in the school system: increased spread of disease, poor social engagement (bullying/racism), non-inclusive approach to history and politics and failure to teach things to form their own framework of values and think critically (or involve their parents in that process). None of these problems are new, it's just becoming more socially acceptable to homeschool. Good for you for making the right choice for your children. Having your spouse at home with them will be ideal.

<comment><USER54> Can't say I particularly agree with you. Things like an "[inclusive] approach to history and politics", and everything that implies, are a large part of why we pulled our kids out of public schools.

I fully respect other adults' right to hold their own opinions. I am not a fan of high-jacking education of children as a way to push those views, which has unfortunately become common place from both ends of the political spectrum.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER55> One of my children is entering high school this year, 100% online, through the district's virtual learning program. The other is finishing the last year of middle school, 100% online, &c. My job was never in danger because of where I work, and my wife was already at home, so she's committed to working with the kids on their work and I'm working with them when I'm at home.

We never would have made it through this year if my paycheck disappeared. I can't imagine how everyone else is doing this.

<comment><USER22> Getting by with a little help from Jack Daniels, probably.

</comment></comment><comment><USER56> We have a 3 year old in NJ (suburb of NYC). His pediatrician and my wife's doc both recommend he go in-person to his preschool. So far schools are re-opening but are 3 days a week instead of 4, with staggered drop off times. We are preparing for a shutdown a few weeks in by lining up a pod of 4 other kids and a teacher.

I honestly think that our area of NJ has a good a chance of making it through in-person for the long-term due to being so slammed by it at first & the pro- social reaction from most of our neighbors.

</comment><comment><USER57> Well, we have a large house, and we homeschool, so we don't have your set of problems at all.

But our youngest is a senior in high school this year. She's taking some dual- enrollment classes, but they're online-only. If she were a year older, and looking at going to college this fall... I don't know what we'd do. I guess we'd be restricted to schools that are within commuting distance, because we'd have no confidence that they wouldn't go remote-only at the drop of a hat.

</comment><comment><USER58> I'm another +1 for Modulo.app, our 6yo is really enjoying "Kids Club" as well as a number of zoom classes. We sometimes supplement with outschool too, but at this point we have built up a nice roster of instructors who work 1:1 over zoom.

It doesn't seem likely to me that schools will be able to safely reopen in the US anytime soon, so I'd encourage everyone to take a look at the emerging startups appearing in this area, like Prenda, Primer, Dexter [full disclosure, I'm an investor]

</comment><comment><USER59> Among other things, trying to teach my offspring reminds me of how profoundly unqualified I am to be a father. It feels like I've thrown everything plus the kitchen sink at the wall to see what sticks. I do not claim to do a good job. They've maintained wikis for a while with us, and that has been something I hold in high regard. Feel free to HMU, [https://philosopher.life/](https://philosopher.life/), if you want to talk.

<comment><USER6> The most qualified person to be your children's father is you. You're the only one who cares enough to throw everything but the kitchen sink at them to help create a personalized, enriching experience for them.

<comment><USER59> Hello Manisha, that is very kind of you, and I admire your work. I will agree I am the most motivated and accountable person in their lives.

<comment><USER6> Heart emoji.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER60> Taking things one day at a time, and learning to be patient with everyone: the teachers, my kids, ourselves. We have shifted our kids' babysitter toward more teaching-assistant type duties.

Also, I'm trying use my free time to teach the kids intellectually stimulating stuff they wouldn't learn in a classroom - like how to play poker, how to calculate flooring area from an architectural plan, how a wall is constructed, basic chemistry while cooking in the kitchen.

<comment><USER22> Since your babysitter's responsibility is growing is his/her pay also growing? Sorry for the rude question, but "essential workers" have rights and needs too...

<comment><USER60> Yes, it is.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER61> I tend to start work early and get a lot of work done in a short amount of time. I drink bulletproof coffee right when I wake up, fast until 1, and finish work by 430, when my kid wakes up from their nap. I am lucky to not be pulled into a lot of meetings, so I have large blocks of time dedicated to only coding. I try not to do anything else during work hours except work, and maintain a flow state for most of the time.

</comment><comment><USER62> 15-year-old: I miss my friends. Want to do my concurrent-enrollment advanced study classes. She's starting school, we'll see how long in-person school lasts.

12-year-old: School over the internet is awesome! Takes me a quarter of the time and I'm not just waiting for the teacher and the class. Doing an online, tech-focused, home schooling program, with in-person advanced math class and drama class.

<comment><USER6> That's so interesting that your kids have had such different experiences. Do you attribute it to their personality or to the way their teachers/schools are doing distance learning?

<comment><USER62> Personality, motivation to be with friend group, and availability of interesting/challenging courses.

The 12-yo had been explicitly told he "could miss two weeks and not fall behind", and the teacher tried to forbid working ahead in the math book. (The in-person math class is up a grade level plus "advanced").

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER63> Montana: 5 year old going into Kindergarten. Wife is quitting her job (at a school - non-teacher) to stay home and assist my son with 100% online learning.

If the school/community manages to create a safe in-person learning environment for the next few months my son will transfer to in-person learning. I highly doubt this will happen though given the current trends.

</comment><comment><USER64> Full-time tech worker in Seattle in a stressful job, wife works full-time, one 9yo.

We are going to get an Alexa or Google smart speaker to help maintain schedules and screen-allowance timers. Maintaining a set schedule is key.

We have tried white-boards, but they get messy with lots of other priorities we try to organize (shopping, garbage night, bills, etc).

</comment><comment><USER65> All kids are going to school, but only 4 days a week (I don't know why 1 less day reduces any risk). Masks are optional but recommended. Currently, all after school sports are still going forward as before. The district is offering an homeschooling option but limited on the number. It is already maxed out.

<comment><USER66> > All kids are going to school, but only 4 days a week (I don't know why 1 > less day reduces any risk)

If the days are staggered, it would reduce the occupancy rate of the classrooms, which seems sensible.

<comment><USER65> But, they are not. They go all 4 days, all day. So, completely senseless and half-hearted like most of the COVID rules out there. I can only think that they may be doing deeper cleans on Fridays, but they haven't said that they are. So, who knows.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER67> 2 kids in high school. They started last week with online only. Their schools offered the option of online only or in person classes and each student was able to choose. Even though the class list for online only is much smaller than what's available in person, we thought it safer to go that way.

</comment><comment><USER68> I feel like people might as well homeschool if you have to watch them anyways. Many kids can be done their work by 1pm if they are homeschooled. Better than staring at a screen all day. And we wonder why the newest generations have a life expectancy less than the previous ones.

</comment><comment><USER69> London, England. Small house, big garden, Mrs was a teacher, 4 year old boy. He plays Lego, games, in an inflatable pool, in a sandbox, and does max 4 hours of learning a week with my wife. He's never been so happy and it'll do for a year as far as I am concerned.

<comment><USER22> Excellent plan, good on you.

</comment></comment><comment><USER70> Our school is doing e-learning for 3 weeks then, supposedly, going back to in person. 60-90% of the school population (depending on school) opted for e-learning for the year so when my kids go back there is only 8 or so other kids in the classroom.

</comment><comment><USER71> private kindergarten - 3 weeks virtual only, then 100% in school (10 kids)

private 2nd, 7th - 3 weeks virtual only, then hybrid model. One week on, one week off, 10 kids in class.

I ran calculations for the probability of a serious infection and it is something like

1% prevalence * 5% transmission rate 1% hospitalization rate

.0005% chance per contact of being hospitalized

chance your child doesnt get hospitalized per extended contact .99995

with 10 children in the class plus a teacher, the probability of being hospitalized is .99995^10 or 1/20,000

I can work from home and my wife is a stay at home. I know a little about a lot of things so can teach them pretty much anything. We had a lot of fun in the spring.

I dont love the pandemic, but it has been great for us as a family.

<comment><USER6> What do you think about the chance of your child passing on the disease to someone older or the teacher?

</comment></comment><comment><USER72> Which Home school program are people following?

Especially looking for California and 2nd-3rd graders..

Is there a curriculum that you follow and use books? Or is there an online Home school thing..

Looking for pointers...

<comment><USER58> Math: [https://www.modulo.app/all-resources/the-best-math- programs-...](https://www.modulo.app/all-resources/the-best-math-programs-for- home-educators)

Reading: [https://www.modulo.app/all-resources/the-5-best-programs- to-...](https://www.modulo.app/all-resources/the-5-best-programs-to-teach- your-child-to-read5)

</comment></comment><comment><USER73> My wife is a school teacher who is currently teaching remotely while I work remotely as a programmer.

We live in a small two bedroom apartment, but we rearranged the whole house to make it all work.

We converted our bedroom into a bedroom and office for my wife, our 4 year old son's bedroom into a family room and office for me, and then we turned our entire living room into a school and play room for our son.

We then hired a nanny to tutor and play with our 4 year old son during the day while we each work in our respective offices. She is an ex-teacher who has been self-isolating since March (the same as us).

She charges $12 an hour for 6 hours a day, 5 days a week, which works out to $360 a week. This is about $100 more than keeping our son in his daycare, but now he's getting one-on-one interaction and tutoring instead of just being one kid out of twenty in a room with only two teachers.

Unless my wife's school district (or my office) is willing to provide hazmat suits and/or effective PPE, we intend to stay home until a vaccine is released.

</comment><comment><USER74> Our children will attend private school in person.

</comment><comment><USER75> Elementary and middle school students. Local school district is virtual for the 1st quarter, but we had made the decision it would be virtual for our kids until a working vaccine arrives or the virus transmission rate is under control.

Our productivity at home will be lower and I will have to relearn fractions, but we're going to make it work.

I am disappointed we didn't use the summer to better prepare by starting to teach the kids, but it seemed like none of us wanted to do anything related to school given what is happening.

<comment><USER6> I think it's great that you gave your children a break this summer. Sometimes kids really need to just relax and play. It's been a hard year. Learning isn't linear, so they will likely catch up quickly. Also, there a ton of great apps and youtube videos for teaching fractions (you might not even have to help). Let me know if you'd like some recommendations.

<comment><USER75> >Let me know if you'd like some recommendations.

I would be thankful. I appreciate your time.

<comment><USER6> Of course! Can you email me at firstname.lastname@example.com and we'll find a time to talk?

Also Math Tango is our all time favorite app and they have lots of great fraction stuff. [https://www.originatorkids.com/?p=1008](https://www.originatorkids.com/?p=1008)

More fraction specific - Slice Fractions is a favorite in our community. [https://ululab.com/slice-fractions/](https://ululab.com/slice-fractions/)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER76> We ended up doing full-on homeschooling. Our local policies have them physically going in in about 3 weeks, or being "virtual".

We have a legally deaf-blind student that we feel will not be able to cope with everyone wearing a mask and having to be distant. (Under normal circumstances, he tends to get rather close in because he's trying to see you; he's got rather more European personal space sensibilities than American ones.) We also have a sneaking suspicion that "in person school" will last less than a week before someone coughs and everyone is sent home. (So to speak.) We think this is going to be a very unstable and destabilizing option.

The local virtual option was well established here before, but involves children sitting in front of computers for nearly the full 8 hours, as if they were at school. As adults, we're hardly willing to be on 8 hours of video call a day and asking for this from children is absurd. (I'm not too worried about the details of whether it's exactly 8 hours, the point is, they're clearly trying to function as a school _day_ replacement rather than a _school_ replacement; the two are not the same.)

I've also noticed my oldest is falling behind in math, because they're going just a _touch_ faster than he can quite keep up with [1], and I've kind of wanted to fix that anyhow. I can see the memeplex forming where he realizes that there's no reason to put any effort in, because almost no matter what he does, the curriculum goes zooming on and gives him an OK grade. Even if we only do this for half a year or a year I'm hoping to have a chance to break in to this cycle.

At the moment I'm not focusing too hard on the "socialization" problem. Lockdown is precluding a lot of good solutions to that anyhow. We can address it more thoroughly later.

The main thing I'm having to reconsider is music. I still want to offer a music program, but now band isn't an option and/or is not a reliable option. (This is true even if we took the full-physical option anyhow.) We're doing a trial run of the home schooling this week (before our actual start date, so we can decide how we like it), and I'm considering trying to offer the kids some music programs involving instruments that are capable of functioning alone. I took enough piano that I could easily teach it; I'm also considering electric guitar as a versatile option that seems to have some passable electronic teaching options. (I feel like even on an instrument I don't play myself I can still fill in the gaps in such programs.)

[1]: A previous comment of mine on the topic: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23490872](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23490872)

<comment><USER52> If you want support from an app for piano and especially if you already have a keyboard or digital piano with MIDI out, I would _strongly_ recommend Simply Piano on the iPad. I'm not affiliated, just a very, very happy user with a young kid getting more out of that app than I would have imagined—I started off keeping pace, having played a few instruments but not piano before, but when your kid spends every spare minute on the damn thing it's hard to keep up, after they get the hang of it.

It's not so hot at form—it tries to teach and reinforce it but of course it can't dynamically check that you aren't screwing up—but is great at most other things. Heavy focus on playing recognizable and fun music (they license _tons_ of stuff) to keep up interest, with arrangements adjusted down as necessary. Long, segmented "curriculum" plan with some branches, free play modes on songs you've "unlocked", sheet music available and play modes that scroll the page for you. It's really nice.</comment></comment>


Show HN: Ideas to get more clients for freelancers and agencies - <AUTHOR> https://tiiny.host/75-ideas-freelancers-agencies/ <comment><AUTHOR> Hey guys,

I've been working on a resource to help freelancers & agencies get more clients, thought it would be useful in these times.

Whilst browsing around I couldn't find a thorough resource with ideas and actionable tips, just blog posts. Whilst you may have heard a few of them before I think putting them into a handy resource helps you brainstorm new avenues for business.

Let me know what you guys think! Have you tried any of these? Any more you think I should add? Looking to continually update this.

<comment><USER2> There is few things that I tried myself and they some were effective for me. For the partner section the Stripe partner program is interesting [https://stripe.com/docs/partners](https://stripe.com/docs/partners)</comment></comment>


Google quietly introduces a 64-bit version of its Canary browser for Mac OS X - <AUTHOR> http://thenextweb.com/google/2014/08/05/google-quietly-introduces-64-bit-version-chrome-canary-browser-mac-os-x/ <comment><USER2> I'm hoping at some point they use (or at least provide the option of using) native OS X H.264 codecs so HTML5 video can have as low a CPU overhead as in Safari.</comment>


My breakup letter to Rails - <AUTHOR> https://medium.com/@dickeyxxx/rails-we-need-to-talk-d6e5ca1d748

<comment><USER2> I feel like this article nails a few things, then builds a structure around some things that just aren't true. its totally possible, for example, to have validations that apply to a normal user but not an admin. The real problem that's missed in this article is that validations shouldn't be on the data or the persistence, but on the interaction.

I'm totally with the OP on saying goodbye to Rails proper, but if one doesn't understand the essence of why the 'breakup' is necessary and good, the same mistakes will be repeated with the next language/framework/platform one chooses to date.

I am playing with the position that if you want to use Rails _as intended by its creators_ and your application is too complex to implement in ActiveAdmin without a lot of accidental complexity, you should find another framework.[1]

[1] Substitute another well-designed scaffolding engine if you like. The statement still feels true if you duck type that piece.

</comment><comment><USER3> Good stuff; resonates with the reasons I've stayed away entirely. How much time have you invested in checking out Clojure? The Clojure community while a bit small is fairly hot. If you find the learning curve intimidating, but haven't taken much time to dig in, give it maybe 10 solid hours and I think you'll love it. The syntax is a tiny bit off-putting at first for a non- Lisper, but once it clicks, it clicks HARD.

As I got into it, I discovered that I have to hold myself back from getting too crazy too quickly. It's just that easy.

<comment><AUTHOR> I do love it. I've spent enough time with it to build a couple of toy web services and found it great.

Only issue was trying to learn emacs so I could use paredit. Later I gave that up and used something with vim.

It's probably the number one language I would like to spend time with.

Also, I'm usually not much for these kind of exercises, but this helped me a lot with the syntax: [https://www.4clojure.com/](https://www.4clojure.com/)

<comment><USER3> I got a lot out of Clojure koans, myself. Rich Hickey's talks are also phenomenal. I'm itching to take a crack at designing a service around Datomic.

Emacs Live is a pretty legit pre-baked environment for use with Clojure, and pretty sexy to boot, decent themes (but needs a Solarized one.) It's also preconfigured to play nice with lein via CIDER nrepl for that "live hacking" experience. There are still a few tricks, and it's a little heavy, but it's quite good for a packaged toolkit. I definitely feel the advantages over Vim, for Clojure at least.

Sadly, I too find myself unable to set aside the time I'd like to for Clojure.

Again, really enjoyed the article!

<comment><USER4> [https://github.com/tpope/vim-fireplace](https://github.com/tpope/vim- fireplace)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Just started learning rails a few months ago. As an aspiring web-developer it really puts me off and just start learning another web framework :( Have i just been wasting my time with Rails? Whats the next step? Any advice?</comment>


Key Facts about Swine Influenza (Swine Flu) - <AUTHOR> http://www.cdc.gov/flu/swine/key_facts.htm <comment><USER2> Classes in all levels (preschool to universities) and public events where suspended today in Mexico City due the Influeza outbreak. 68 people have died the past days and 1004 cases are under treatment.

<comment><USER3> Thanks for the context. I don't really follow the news closely, and this post (and it's corresponding upvotes) were a little puzzling to me.</comment></comment>


Ask HN: Review my Writing Style - <AUTHOR>

I recently started a blog, and just published my first post. I was wondering if you could give me tips on my writing. Is it to verbose? Intentionally obfuscated? Poor explaining? Any tips would be great. Here's my post: http://mhfine.wordpress.com/2012/04/23/re-imaging-the-file-system/ <comment><AUTHOR> Clickable: [http://mhfine.wordpress.com/2012/04/23/re-imaging-the- file-s...](http://mhfine.wordpress.com/2012/04/23/re-imaging-the-file-system/)</comment>


Man-in-the-middle vulnerability on Gentoo sync and emerge - <AUTHOR> https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=597804 <comment><USER2> As a long time gentoo dev I am happy that this gets more attention. Although this is an open secret and completely obvious. Gentoo's rsync-based system was always insecure. There have been multiple attempts to implement some kind of package signing, but it never made it to deployment.

A workaround right now is to use git-based sync over https. You can sync from [https://github.com/gentoo-mirror/gentoo](https://github.com/gentoo- mirror/gentoo) which is a copy of the portage tree with pregenerated metadata.

<comment><USER3> The official source for git-over-https is: [https://anongit.gentoo.org/git/repo/gentoo.git](https://anongit.gentoo.org/git/repo/gentoo.git)

<comment><USER4> It's dangerous to recommend that instead of the github mirror because the gentoo.org git server is not made to scale to the number of users of gentoo.

That's the whole reason the rsync infrastructure exists in the first place.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> This bug (#597804) links to bug #597800 [0] titled "emerge-webrsync: Downloads .gpgsig by default, but doesn't verify it."

That's where the details are (and probably where this submission should point).

[0]: [https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=597800](https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=597800)

<comment><USER2> Please note that this is only related to the webrsync-method. While securing that would be good, it's not the default. So even if we had a secure emerge- webrsync-feature it'd still leave most users vulnerable.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> Looks like this is in the process of getting fixed:

[https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=597918](https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=597918)

The change is in the master:

[https://gitweb.gentoo.org/proj/portage.git/commit/?id=98c250...](https://gitweb.gentoo.org/proj/portage.git/commit/?id=98c250cceaf380d6dbeacac90482a5d1956dcb80)

<comment><USER4> Those only refer to `emerge-webrsync`. That tool is typically used exactly once the first time a user installs gentoo. Every subsequent `emerge --sync` does not use that codepath, and so still needs a separate fix.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> Another bug report [0] contains more details:

      This is dangerous as it is insecure default behavior. There may
      be an argument (poor) for keeping insecure default
      behavior. However, it is also doubly dangerous because it may
      imply to the user that the operation has been cryptographically
      verified when in fact it has not.

      Reproducible: Always

      Steps to Reproduce:
      1. emerge-webrsync
      2. "Fetching file portage-20161021.tar.xz.gpgsig ..."
      Actual Results:
      User things "cool, it's verified"... but it's not verified, and
      no warning is shown to this effect.

      Expected Results:
      All downloads are cryptographically verified or, failing that,
      a big (preferably red, flashing) SCARY WARNING is shown.

      Probably it should whinge immediately and require the addition
      of an --insecure command line flag.

[0] [https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=597800](https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=597800)

</comment><comment><USER7> Is there an actual bug report somewhere or just a headline with some comments?

I'm not saying you have to educate from first principles, but sure would be nice to include the use case, expected behavior, estimate on how widespread the effect, steps to reproduce,... This is basically a tweet.

<comment><USER8> The first comment linked to it[0]?

[0] [https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=597800](https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=597800)</comment></comment>