Snowden granted 1-year asylum in Russia, leaves airport - <AUTHOR> http://rt.com/news/snowden-entry-papers-russia-902/ <comment><USER2> As a U.S. Citizen I support Snowden.

Since 1865, there have been 5,031 deaths and 22,125 injuries caused by terrorism in the United States. Source: [http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/terrorism/wrjp255a.html](http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/terrorism/wrjp255a.html)

5,000 deaths in 148 years.

In 2011, 32,367 people died in vehicle accidents. Source: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_vehicle_deaths_in...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_vehicle_deaths_in_U.S._by_year)

There are all kinds of cancers that "only" kill 1,000 or so people per year that are deemed not worthy of research because they are so rare. But for terrorism, we sacrifice nearly inexhaustible supplies of money and time. We sacrifice our liberty, our privacy. None of it makes any sense.

Terrorism is nothing but fear mongering to effect an increase in power.

<comment><USER3> The fallacy of the comparison to heart disease/cancer/traffic accidents is that tremendous resources are spent preventing and then resolving _those_ issues as well. They are side effects of living productively, however, so we can't rationally just ban cars. But we can put hundreds of thousands of officers on the road, and endlessly add regulations and safety features to our vehicles, etc.

Snowden is a true hero in the sense of the word -- he is in actual, physical danger for what he has done for others -- however it is not a reasonable argument when people argue that terrorism is a non-issue because <body count> less than <some other body count>.

Do you think those who wish to do you harm don't want to exponentially increase that count? If various groups could get a nuclear warhead or dirty bomb, do you really believe they wouldn't use it? If they could sabotage a major city's water supply or a nuclear power plant, do you think that would be below them?

This doesn't seek to justify the NSA's all-encompassing surveillance at all (human intelligence is where it is at), however there is an actual possibility that they have actually preventing significant events. But the problem with proactive actions is that no one gives you credit for what didn't happen.

As an aside, to add to what others mentioned about the _enormous_ costs and economic damage that resulted from 9/11, for instance, another reason terrorism of even the smallest kind sees a dramatic response is that it is terrorism -- it terrorizes a whole populace. If someone randomly shoots people in parks, there will be a massive response because the impact is on everyone.

<comment><USER4> There are several issues here. First, the comparisons are often brought up in response to those claiming - directly or indirectly - that terrorism is an existential threat to America. The fact that we live with things that kill vastly more people puts the lie to that.

Second, the issue is the _marginal_ expenditure to _marginal_ deaths. We spend tremendous effort and some freedom reducing auto accidents, _and we reduce them substantially_. We don't spend trillions _more_ at this point, because we don't consider it worthwhile. Before 9/11, we had some level of expenditure (of effort, money, freedom) on preventing terrorism, and doubtless saw some reduction in terrorism over what it would have otherwise been, and had it down to some particular level. Since 9/11, we've been spending that _plus_ trillions of dollars and more of our freedoms, and the most we can _possibly_ do is reduce terrorism to zero - and even if the alternative were a significant increase in terrorism (something like 9/11 every other day, instead of - generously - once every several years) there would still be more room to save lives in these other ways.

Finally, 9/11 had an enormous cost, but a lot of the psychological cost is due to fear mongering from people who lack the perspective the numbers bring. Another large portion of that cost is due to lack of resiliency in the companies with offices in the WTC, and companies doing business with those companies, &c. The former is addressed through education and leadership, the latter by encouraging behaviors that will also help in the case of (say) a massive hurricane. None of this is served by a panicked focus on terrorism.

<comment><USER5> So am I, as a citizen, supposed to be content with a 9/11 scale terrorist attack happening "every few years?" If the idea of that frightens me, am I just falling victim to fear mongering? Do I "lack perspective?"

<comment><USER6> _So am I, as a citizen, supposed to be content with a 9 /11 scale terrorist attack happening "every few years?"_

We spend $0 a year on defense against alien invasions. Should I, as a citizen, be content with alien invasions happening every few years?

<comment><USER7> Has any alien invasion ever happened?

Also, you don't _know_ that DoD spends nothing against alien invasions. :)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> What a strange world we live in, when you have to run from the US government after revealing its illegal and unconstitutional activity and hope for safe haven in Putin's Russia.

<comment><USER9> I'm really amazed at how many people complain about Putin. Would you all prefer to live in the Russia of 50 years ago?

<comment><USER8> The comparison was not between putin's Russia and Russia 50 years ago. It was between Russia and USA. Despite everything that is fucked up and wrong with US Government, I would hope (perhaps naively), its still better than Russia in terms of human rights at least?

<comment><USER10> > I would hope (perhaps naively), its still better than Russia in terms of > human rights at least?

That depends on a lot of factors:

\- are you homosexual

\- ethnically caucasian

\- A subscriber to Islam

\- have a name that matches the name of someone on a no-fly list

\- an 'enemy combatant' (ages 13 and up)

\- an activist of sorts

Or anyone of a hundred other arbitrary criteria. Those could make the difference between a safe & secure life 'just' being harassed periodically by people in uniform or spending time in Gitmo or Siberia.

<comment><USER11> > ethnically caucasian

Actually, that matters in Russia a lot, too. Although, their meaning of the word is different (Russian Caucasians are people originated from around the Caucasian Mountains; that's where all the guerilla fighting is currently going on).

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> This is a sad day for America.

It's a sad day because a citizen of our nation decided he needed to go to a foreign journalist instead of one of our own to break this story.

It's a sad day because that same citizen felt like he wouldn't get a fair trial in our justice system and might be treated the same way Bradley Manning was until he did get a trial.

It's a sad day because lots of decent, honest people who work in our intelligence services that are trying desperately to uncover the next possible attack are going to have to work much harder.

It's a sad day because those people are going to work harder because the leaders do not feel like they can trust the American people to understand and decide for themselves how much of their privacy they are willing to trade for the work that the government's intelligence services do.

It's a sad day because we demonstrated that we care more about the embarrassment of our duplicity being revealed than in the ideals of our commitment to civil liberties.

And I'm sad because I'm an American and I love my country and I want it to do better.

<comment><USER13> _It 's a sad day because a citizen of our nation decided he needed to go to a foreign journalist instead of one of our own to break this story._

Glenn Greenwald is a US citizen.

<comment><USER14> Not only that, but I believe Snowdon went to WashPo before he went to The Guardian?

<comment><USER4> In some ways, that's just additional motivation for his ultimate decision, and doesn't really make it less sad.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> It's kind of amazing that I visited and traversed the entire country by train (St Petersburg to Vladivostok) all while he was in the airport.

So when everyone is talking about big political issues, all I can think of is all the mundane stuff he must be putting up with. Like: how much clothing does he have, and how is he doing laundry? And: Who's paying for his expenses? I assume his ATM card and Visa aren't good anymore.

Get a blini and some квас at Теремок, Edward. It's pretty tasty.

<comment><USER16> What does Teremok translate as? That was the name of my pre-K.

<comment><USER17> In common speech, teremok is a small wooden or stone house[1], like the one from a fairy-tale of the same name [2]. Also a name of a fast food chain. Blini = pancakes. Kvas = Russian national non-alcoholic (<1%) beverage.

[1] [http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A2%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%BC](http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A2%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%BC)

[2] [http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A2%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%BC%...](http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A2%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%BC%D0%BE%D0%BA_\(%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%B7%D0%BA%D0%B0\))

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> Reminder: the real reason Snowden could not walk out of the airport is not because of some virtual "passport" that US "revoked". It is because there are real armed obedient guys on the border who would not let Snowden go his way.

This whole story is not about privacy, spying or politics. It is about your personal inability to choose your phone company, internet provider, or a bank without confronting armed "state" which dictates what is allowed to you. Don't like NSA spying through Verizon? Build your own phone company. Oops, there are feds with an order to "cooperate".

Guns and violence are the problem, not all these abstract inventions like "rights" or "privacy".

<comment><USER19> Why is "passport" in quotes?

What real armed obedient guys on the border?

<comment><USER20> It's Randroid rhetoric. Their entire worldview circles around the perceived evil men with guns who control our lives.

<comment><USER21> Please come visit Russia without a passport or maybe ask people to come visit US without one. You'll see how fast those guns can become real. They won't even let you out of the country if you don't have a passport, which, of course, only a government can issue.

<comment><USER20> Guns are necessary only because there exist violent sociopaths who will use force to avoid obeying the rules human society has set down. That you fear them implies you are exactly the kind of person the rules are intended to protect us from.

<comment><USER21> Why do you want protection from me? I have not given a slightest hint I want to harm anyone in any way and I don't like violence. Why would I fear rules? I fear people who want to randomly enforce those rules, justifying by them anything they want to justify, while themselves avoiding the rules they created for us. Besides, it is exactly high ranking government jobs that attract sociopaths, because it becomes really easy to do anything with very little accountability.

<comment><USER20> The guns are not to be used against you unless you are violent. You imply you obey laws only because there are men with guns. This indicates you will use violence to avoid obeying laws. That is why I need protection from you.

<comment><USER22> "The guns are not to be used against you unless you are violent."

Not true. When you are complying because a gun is present, you fear that gun. There for it is being used.

"You imply you obey laws only because there are men with guns. "

Which implies the specific law may be wrong.

"This indicates you will use violence to avoid obeying laws. "

This indicates that you don't believe in opposing unjust laws, and shooting any one who disagrees.

"That is why I need protection from you."

Or from you.

<comment><USER20> > _Which implies the specific law may be wrong._

If you believe it's wrong, work to get it changed through non-violent means.

> _This indicates that you don 't believe in opposing unjust laws_

Using violence to oppose laws perceived by you as unjust is wrong so long as there is a democracy at work. And no, I will not accept the argument that because the majority happens to disagree with you, the democracy must not be working.

> _and shooting any one who disagrees._

As far as I can tell, it is you who wants to shoot anyone who tries to enforce a law you don't like. I call that reprehensible and have no sympathy for you.

<comment><USER22> Resisting a law is non-violent, but often gets a violent response from authorities, with guns. Most existing approved methods to change law simply dont work for most normal people.

Its not as black and white as you think. If a minority is oppressed by a majority, then yes, the democracy is broken. The point of democracy is not legalized mob rule, it MUST protect minorities.

The last bit you just made up.

<comment><USER20> > _Resisting a law is non-violent, but often gets a violent response from > authorities, with guns._

People don't always do the right thing, film at 11. That's not a reason to eradicate law enforcement nor government as a whole.

> _Most existing approved methods to change law simply dont work for most > normal people._

Failure to change a law to suit your own whims is not a failure of the mechanisms. It is your failure to persuade.

> _The point of democracy is not legalized mob rule, it MUST protect > minorities._

In the end, minorities are only ever protected by consent of the majority. A society whose people do not believe in rule of law cannot and will not effectively protect minorities, no matter the governance structure or what any piece of paper says.

All we can do is try to instill the rule of law, and set up rules and institutions to protect everyone's rights in anticipation that, at any given moment, the majority may wish to treat a minority unjustly. We must then hope that either the majority is persuaded that their hatred does not justify damaging those rules and institutions, or that the majority view changes before it succeeds in punching a hole in them.

> _The last bit you just made up._

You made up my alleged desire to shoot people who "resist" laws.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> This is good news. I'm glad his airport captivity is finally over. Russia is possibly the safest place for him at this point. And I'm glad there's at least one country that can openly stand up against the growing US offense.

Well done, Russia.

</comment><comment><USER24> Since the NSA says that there are such strict controls on who can access what sorts of data, how did Snowden gain possession of that data?

If some _private contractor_ can walk out with "thousands of classified documents" how are we supposed to believe that the NSA isn't lying about their allegedly _strict controls?_

<comment><USER25> As far as I can tell, he -

1\. Purposely stole 4 laptops to sift through them, looking for anything he could use.

2\. Never gained any access to the spying data... Only classified documents.

A motivated person like that, not being able to gain (and provide examples to us) of that spying data, goes right against your second statement.

<comment><USER26> 1\. Proving the point. He stole 4 laptops!

2\. He stated he had full access to the system as a contractor and could lookup details on anyone he wanted. I fully believe him. In his documents he has examples of the systems being used.

Bonus point. He has yet to release all the documents and has timed his releases very well. Expect more documents showing better examples to be released in the future when the US government has stated more lies that he can disprove.

<comment><USER25> > Proving the point. He stole 4 laptops!

I've been trying to find the source, but I can't, so scratch off my #1.

My understanding of it was the "theft of government property" charge was based on physical laptops, or their drives, being taken home... But I can no longer find that source. And all the media reports are alleging/assuming (though without any references or proof) that that charge is in relation to copying the data.

And the indictment is sealed.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> If it wasn't for Snowden the general population of the US would never be even having a discussion about widespread national spying on everyone.

They could bury previous whistleblowers and Manning but Snowden has finally made people sit up and realize while the TSA is groping your genitals at the airport, the NSA is groping everything else about your life at that same intimacy.

The sad part is, in 100 years nothing will have changed, it will just be hidden better and whistleblowers seized before they can get to the press.

</comment><comment><USER10> That's super news, I was concerned that yesterdays release by Greenwald might imperil Snowdens chances in Russia but it appears that was unfounded.

It's funny how this whistleblower thing might turn into a mirror image of the torture scheme the CIA employed: the CIA would use other countries to ship prisoners to to have them tortured/interrogated in ways that the country where the capture took place or the USA would not condone on their own soil (but for some magical reason doing it somewhere else or even hiring people to do it makes it ok).

Now we get whistleblowers that move outside of the jurisdiction of the country the revelations are about. Cue a Russian whistleblower to flee to the USA for some symmetry.

</comment><comment><USER28> I'll bet Snowden is a Hacker News and Reddit user. I expect that he might read this thread when he gets to a computer, perhaps even taking the time to do a Reddit AMA.

If so, Hi Ed! Thanks for doing what you did!

<comment><USER29> He's always had computer access and did a Q/A on The Guardian a while ago. He probably tries to keep his profile low altogether.

</comment></comment><comment><USER30> Just as well he's not gay then - Bradley Manning would have found things a bit harder in this situation

</comment><comment><USER31> Another day I'm proud to be Russian.

<comment><USER32> And a load of days not to be: [http://www.sacbee.com/2013/08/01/5614662/russia-will- enforce...](http://www.sacbee.com/2013/08/01/5614662/russia-will-enforce-anti- gay-law.html)

<comment><USER33> Actually I like this law, and I know most Russians like too... And it is a matter of survival to them.

<comment><USER34> Sorry, what? Survival of whom, exactly?

<comment><USER33> Ethinic russians.

They have a very low fertility currently, and there are plenty of correlation between places that accept homosexuality as normal (instead of only tolerating it) and low fertility.

Of course, correlation is not causation, but what you think the majority of russians will think about the subject?

<comment><USER35> Being gay or not is not a choice, so how can fertility rate be linked with number of homosexuals?

<comment><USER36> Being gay is not against the law. I can certainly see propaganda of non traditional lifestyle would be detrimental to fertility.

<comment><USER37> Being gay seems as much a lifestyle choice as being straight or being lactose intolerant.

<comment><USER36> Being gay is not the issue, the issue is people not marrying or having kids and dedicating their lives to it because they see other people not doing the same. Thinking that's normal is good for the individual, but not good for a society. US is doing fine in that regard, but Russia is not, population is declining, people are not marrying or having kids as much as they did before, and lifestyle propaganda is one of the few things the state can do.

<comment><USER35> [http://visualbooster.com/share/20130801230340534.png](http://visualbooster.com/share/20130801230340534.png) Here is graph which represents fertility rate in Russia (orange) comparative to Japan (red) and Germany (blue). It's obviously climbing up since economy stabilized. Now, would you expect huge increase after anti gay-propaganda law is established?

<comment><USER36> No I wouldn't, not just because of this single law. There also needs to be actual pro-marriage, pro-kids, anti-drug, anti-promiscuity propaganda at the same time. There need to be more proactive actions and measures taken, but of course that's much harder than some blocking measure.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER38> I don't think this was ever posted on HN and happened just 2 months ago. This is how Russia deals with extradition when the shoe is on the other foot and they want someone:

[http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/czechrepubl...](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/czechrepublic/10090013/Fuel- tanker-ordered-to-block-Russian-plane-from-taking-off-at-Czech-airport.html)

Reportedly "dangerous stand-off" meant that Russians pulled guns on the plane and Czech police withdrew in order not to escalate.

</comment><comment><USER39> Remember that we're wired to respond to personal news. That's the secret to Facebook's and tabloid magazine's success. So as happy as I am about this, let it also be a reminder that Snowden's not the story. The fate of the internet is.

If you haven't read it, this is a great article on the subject: [http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/jul/28/edward- sno...](http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/jul/28/edward-snowden- death-of-internet)

</comment><comment><USER40> I don't live in DC but it would be nice if someone could stop by the Russian embassy and put some flowers in front. It would show that American people don't necessarily agree with our government and are grateful for the Russian's support.

</comment><comment><USER41> I'm flying into Sheremetyevo this Sunday. I was secretly hoping they would be holding one of those press conferences while I was there, a long shot I know.

ES: if you're reading this- Anything you want from the homeland? I can drop it off in a secure location, I'll be staying about 100km south of Moscow. /u/@gmx

</comment><comment><USER28> This of course happening the day after what was perhaps the biggest revelation so far, even though Putin said that asylum would be conditional on Snowden promising "to stop harming the United States." I do not think this highly symbolic timing was coincidental.

</comment><comment><USER42> For info on next steps in the processing of refugee applicants in Russia:

[http://rt.com/news/snowden-russia-immigration- asylum-758/](http://rt.com/news/snowden-russia-immigration-asylum-758/)

</comment><comment><USER43> Is US Administration seeking peace or obedience from rest of the world?

</comment><comment><USER24> Contracted rendition team in place...

<comment><USER44> This is why it is good he is in Russia. In Ecuador, we'd get away with that shit but there would be a major shitstorm if we go commando into Russia.

<comment><USER45> I agree. Russia's perhaps the only country the USA would have serious reservations about going into. Maybe if it was some unknown defector or something .. but Snowden? My god, I can't even imagine what would happen.

China would probably be the only credible alternative, but the govt there doesn't really have the right attitude to give someone like Snowden asylum.

<comment><USER24> You think that there are no mercenaries in Russia or <insert nation here> who would do the job for the right price?

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER46> 413 points, 4 hours, half way down the page? something is a miss with the voting system on HN.

</comment><comment><USER47> Good thing he's not gay.

</comment><comment><USER48> God Bless Russia.

</comment><comment><USER49> Snowden had me until he traveled to Russia with 4 laptops full of NSA secrets. I mean no matter how bad NSA is, Putin is 1000 times worse

<comment><USER49> I stand by what I said even after the downvote :) I don't like what NSA is doing and I applaud Snowden for exposing their activities. However, people like Putin is why we have to have the NSA in the first place

<comment><USER50> "people like Putin is why we have to have the NSA in the first place"

so the government propaganda does work :)

<comment><USER49> I am not defending the NSA or claiming that we should not curtail or better monitor what they are doing. What I am saying is, being a freedom fighter and then seeking asylum in Russia which is the place that heavily curtails personal freedoms of all kinds is kind of ironic don't you think? especially in light of the fact that Snowden allegedly has these 4 laptops with him

<comment><USER50> _being a freedom fighter and then seeking asylum in Russia which is the place that heavily curtails personal freedoms of all kinds is kind of ironic_

when the rest of the world bows to US threats and hands over official presidential planes for searching, there's not much choice is there?

and yes, the whole situation is very ironic, if you your views on the world come from western media

<comment><USER51> So it all boils down to "the enemy of my enemy" rationale then?

<comment><USER50> or he was just cornered in there, while trying to reach a more "benign" destination

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER52> Does anyone else find it odd that he immediately went to the US's biggest rivals. I mean right away he ran to Hong Kong (China) and now he has accepted asylum in Russia.

I mean these countries have huge interest in this guy. He knows intimate details about how the USA gathers intelligence. I mean I wonder what kind of info he has given (if any) to these countries. I am sure Putin would love to get a hold of those laptops he took with him.

<comment> k-mcgrady Not odd at all. If he'd gone to a country with good US relations he would have been extradited. Russia and China don't want to be seen giving into requests from the US so along with Latin America were two of the safest places for him.

<comment><USER52> Yes but Latin American countries wouldn't have as much interest in his Intel as the other Russia and China. If he was just seeking asylum Ecuador would have been a much better choice for him. They have already given Assange asylum so I would think that would have been a better first option than HK.

<comment><USER53> Latin American countries also wouldn't have the power to tell the US to piss off (as we've seen in July). He asked for asylum there but there was no way he could fly to these countries.

<comment><USER54> I suspect Latin America is still his long term endplay. I note the Russian asylum is a temporary 1 year deal.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Soviet Space Image Catalog - <AUTHOR> http://mentallandscape.com/C_Catalog.htm

<comment><AUTHOR> Here's a 2006 news story about Don Mitchell's processing of data from old Soviet Venus missions. Amazing stuff.

"Mitchell obtained the original data from the two landers with the help of the designer of the Venera cameras, Yuri Gektin.... By calibrating a new camera function, Mitchell was able to tease out many of the very dark and very light regions caught by Venera cameras — details not brought out in the original Russian photo reduction work. This process revealed, at least in the case of Venera-13, hazily seen distant hills."

[http://www.nbcnews.com/id/14786868/ns/technology_and_science...](http://www.nbcnews.com/id/14786868/ns/technology_and_science- space/t/soviet-era-venus-images-get-new-life/#.VPCFVFPF_jZ)

<comment><USER2> Sorry, fat finger accidentally down voted, meant to up vote! Great piece of information, fascinating that such information is still there to be teased out!

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> I love the Venus photos that the Soviet landers managed to take. Sure, they're terrible quality, but they're currently the only images we have from Venus.

I wonder if, with more modern technology, it would be possible to design a Venus lander that could last longer than the short period that the Venera landers did.

<comment><USER4> Likely they could, but consider instead doing a Venus Orbiter similar to the Mars orbiter. With some technology behind he perhaps it could deploy kite/sail like probes that slowly dip their way through the atmosphere.

We probably don't go back simply because the environment is so hostile the idea of landing man there is not possible and hence we concentrate on Mars which holds other allure aswell

<comment><USER5> There is an idea of deploying floating habitats on Venus - apparently an air- filled balloon would float above the hostile layers of gases, and you could still extract some unseful materials from the atmosphere itself. I hope they'll at least try sending a long-duration unmanned airship there.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> I've looked at those photos of Venus probably a thousand times. Still, every time I come across them I just stare at them thinking, over and over again, "This photo is from another planet. In space." Followed quickly by "Oh man, we're also floating in space" and then reassuring myself that gravity is doing it's job and we're not going to float away and we're pretty well stuck to the sun. Crisis averted.

<comment><USER7> I usually add "Wow, underneath all that crushing atmosphere Venus doesn't look that different from Earth."

<comment><USER5> I'm in no way a conspiracy theoirst wrt. space exploration, but a follow-up question popped to my mind immediately: those pictures are so Earth-like that how do we know they were made on Venus?

(I assume there was a way for the global scientific community to independently verify that this data indeed came from space)

<comment><USER8> The latest Mars expedition did gave us quite detailed video of the landing. I thought that maybe they have videos of the whole trip across space, even in crude low res. form.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Just an FYI, The 4 images are links to the galleries they represent. It took me a second at first to realize that.

</comment><comment><USER10> Amazing. My grandpa was one of the leading architects for some of this work (mostly lunar probes out of all the ones listed there). It is pretty spectacular to see what people managed to achieve back in those times. Wish I got to meet him. Thanks for posting this.

</comment><comment><USER11> It just so happens that the Russians launched a military imaging satellite into a polar orbit a few hours ago. Supposedly it's the first of a new generation that does digital imaging and no longer uses film:

[http://sen.com/news/russia-launches-bars-m1-classified- milit...](http://sen.com/news/russia-launches-bars-m1-classified-military- satellite)

</comment><comment><USER12> Here is the page I wrote in 2003, about the Soviet Exploration of Venus. You can find links to the images that I processed.

<comment><USER12> [http://mentallandscape.com/V_Venus.htm](http://mentallandscape.com/V_Venus.htm)

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> _Returned-film camera systems were the highest quality Earth-imaging technology until recent linear CCD cameras. In America, returned-film systems were forbidden for civilian use_

I tied to find information about these "returned-film" cameras but my Google- fu failed me. Does anyone know anything about it?

BTW, information about the other type of cameras, CCD: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charge- coupled_device](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charge-coupled_device)

<comment><USER14> I think they mean satellites where the film canister is physically returned to earth.

See paragraph 7 of [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corona_(satellite)#Technology](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corona_\(satellite\)#Technology)

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> any idea what the soviet copyright policy is on these images? in the US NASA images are always in the public domain ...

<comment><AUTHOR> My understanding is that copyright is null if it relates to a state that doesn't exist anymore. I think it's almost always safe to assume that Soviet- produced images are public domain.

<comment><USER16> I don't think that makes sense; in most other aspects, there's the concept of a successor state. Russia took hold of international assets, commitments and liabilities of Soviet Union. This included things like membership in the UN Security Council, commitments to SALT, or NNPT (with the related commitments to respecting Ukrainian sovereignty now quite clearly breached), the place in the Ice Hockey World Cup A Series, ownership of embassy properties all over the world, and whatever you can imagine.

I don't see why copyright to Venus pictures would be much different, if any copyright was reserved in the first place.

<comment><USER17> I think this ( the place in the Ice Hockey World Cup A Series) went to the unified team first?

<comment><USER16> I think you refer to the Olympics where there was the Unified Team (under Olympic flag). I think the Commonwealth of Independent States played friendlies only.

But I used wrong name for tournament: what I meant was the World Championships (played every year), not the World Cup (a rare event, now planned for 2016). There Russia was a successor to USSR after 1991.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: Is there a "show us your work" for job hunting managers? - <AUTHOR>

I'm a developer who followed the management track and found myself really enjoying it.  After a few years of managing a decent sized IT department, I'm interested in putting out some feelers and seeing what else the market has available. No gripes with my current employer; I'm primarily looking for something that's more challenging. (A bump in compensation certainly wouldn't hurt either).
This is the first time that I'm job hunting as a manager and I'm not sure what's expected of me. One of the things we've always emphasized during the hiring process for developers is the same thing I see a lot here on HN: "We only care about one thing: what have you built and shipped? No resumes needed here, we just want to see what you can do." (From http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2542432)
Is there an equivalent for managers? I've really cleaned up my resume and made sure to highlight the things that I've achieved but it feels weird to be job hunting without a portfolio of things to show. Are my personal programming projects still relevant since I'll primarily be looking for a tech management position?
Any advice is appreciated. <comment><USER2> As a recruiter, I can tell you that screening a manager is difficult. Y'all are usually good talkers. Good leading indicators to me are prior success, ability to articulate complex ideas to a lay person, and brevity in communication. It is also good to stay on top of communication, be patient, and nice.

</comment><comment><USER3> \- Can you build and run a team? Show you've done that (who have you hired, how have you created a hiring process, how have you created process around working (agile, ...), etc.. I would want to see a lot of detail around this in your resume.

\- I don't think code samples are really relevant at this stage.

</comment><comment><USER4> Most managerial interviews are based on Behavioral Interviewing. The logic is that how you behaved in the past is the best predictor of how you will behave in the future. If you Google, you'll find lots of typical questions. You should take time to think of specific situations from your past that demonstrate how you handled certain managerial tasks. You'll also find that companies will want to know if you are a "strategy" guy or an "implementation" guy, so it's good to think about what kind of decisions you want to have responsibility over. I think it's okay to say both, but you will need to back up your answer and give examples of how you acted in those situations in the past.

</comment><comment><USER5> I always point to the team's accomplishment and say "We built this", and then point out the part that I worked on specifically.

People apportion credit to the leadership differently, so there is no shame in saying "I lead the team that built this thing" and letting the reader decide how awesome that makes you specifically.

</comment><comment><USER6> On the management level much of the concern will be on your leadership skills and how you handle projects and the team(s) working on them. So to answer your question personal programming projects are still relevant, but interviewers will also be concerned with the business and leadership side of things.

I'm also having the same dilemma since I'll be attending an interview tomorrow for a tech lead position and the job post was specific about the functional/business responsibilities.

BTW If you're looking for a place to store your portfolio (or resume, however you want to call it) properly, here's my project just for that: <http://www.cvstash.com> It works because that's what I used that resulted in the call, which, in turn, resulted in tomorrow's interview.

</comment><comment><USER7> I would still list programming projects. It depends on the company culture though whether they value that geek-cred.

I know as a developer I would feel more comfortable with a boss who can appreciate abstract concepts like code-quality or stressful working conditions.

</comment><comment><USER8> A blog would be a very good idea - show what your ideas on management are. See, for example, Rands in Repose.

</comment><comment><USER9> Hey, if you're still looking, we're doing early testing on an online portfolio service that might meet your needs. I'd be glad to send you an invite.

Email me at tim -at- bitsmachine -dot- com

<http://bitsmachine.com>

Example portfolio (mine): <http://timbarkow.bitsm.com></comment>


PhpMyAdmin Turns 15 - <AUTHOR> http://www.phpmyadmin.net/home_page/15-years.php <comment><USER2> If there is any project I'd be tempted to be snarky about, it's PhpMyAdmin (although last time I used it, it was 2006). From an administration perspective, it was often a hassle, especially in its beginnings. It is a very successful tool and for a while had the same reputation as wordpress: being a pretty remote shell.

But what PhpMyAdmin illustrates very well is how important tools can be to environments/communities. For a while, the presence of PhpMyAdmin was what gave PHP an edge over many other environments: here's a tool that gives you (and tech-savvy people in your company) insight into your database, allows you to do changes and some bit of backup visually instead of fighting with the command line. And, if you develop on PHP, you don't even have to install anything additional on your platform. It made running PHP hosting without shell access feasable.

<comment><USER3> What _do_ you use for MySQL development then? I usually find handwriting SQL queries to be obnoxiously verbose and I don't like the security implications of letting mysql listen on non-localhost interfaces (i.e. for an OSX administration tool).

<comment><USER4> The most secure setup for administrative services is to whitelist their ports by IP address. For example port 22 (SSH) on our servers can only be hit by known-good IP addresses. You can do the same for MySQL's port, or use an SSH tunnel to hit MySQL through localhost.

<comment><USER5> Restricting SSH to "known-good" IP addresses is less flexible and less secure than public key authentication.

(Restricting mysql access to localhost and using an SSH tunnel is fine practice, AFAIK.)

<comment><USER4> It is less flexible, but it is more secure than using public key authentication by itself (public key auth can be used in conjunction with an IP whitelist).

<comment><USER5> I'm not sure an IP whitelist gives you anything -- it provides a handy mechanism for escalating privileges, both for intrusions on a machine at the "known-good" IP and for unintended network access in general.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> I too can hate on phpmyadmin and suggest superior alternatives. However, just let it sink in for one second how incredibly successful this tool has been, regardless of its detriments. Most of us would kill for this kind of household name recognition. It was at the right place at the right time, for sure, but I think there's probably something we can still learn from them.

<comment><USER7> Do tell about the superior alternative, I still have to use phpmyadmin sometimes.

<comment><USER8> The mysql command line client is a superior alternative IMO. Like most things on the command line you are able to more much faster instead of having to deal navigate the GUI. Don't get me wrong phpMyAdmin is definitely easier to use for the average user and if you are just so blessed with having to work on a project that's on shared hosting it might be your only option, but even then I'm usually on the SQL tab.

<comment><USER9> > _The mysql command line client is a superior alternative IMO._

He asked for a real superior alternative. In the same vain. Not something completely different.

> _Like most things on the command line you are able to more much faster > instead of having to deal navigate the GUI._

Not really. Between limitations of the readline lib and terminals, it's a pretty shitty experience. There's a limited stuff you can do faster in the command line.

<comment><USER10> Eh, depends on the type of work you're doing and your command line skills. For maintenance work and administrative tasks, a GUI tool really shines, but during development the cli runs circles around every GUI tool available (for an experienced terminal user).

edit: Also, GUI tools are very useful when you want to familiarize yourself with a large or complex database you haven't previously worked on.

<comment><USER11> One of the main advantages of phpMyAdmin is the ability to work on the database without the need of a command line. Not all website maintainers have access to that level of control.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> I've been working on a PhpMyAdmin-like tool recently called Schema ([http://github.com/timdavies/schema](http://github.com/timdavies/schema)). It's a single-page app (Node.JS/Backbone) and I've had quite a bit of positive feedback from people testing it - much faster than PhpMyAdmin, nicer UI, etc. There's a lot left to do on it (missing critical features at the moment such as inserting rows..) however I'm unable to work on it for roughly a month as I've taken a new job and need to learn some new stuff for it. If anyone wants to help out, you'd be more than welcome (will give commit access after a few pull requests) :-)

<comment><USER13> We developed a similar thing, but for PostgreSQL [1][2]. Also a single page JavaScript app with a good UI and fairly full-featured.

[1] [http://www.teampostgresql.com](http://www.teampostgresql.com)

[2] Demo: [http://teampostgresql.herokuapp.com/](http://teampostgresql.herokuapp.com/) (runs on a free Heroku account so a bit slow, and demo users sometimes mess up the db)

<comment><USER14> Looks quite nice. What is it built with? I also couldn't find any mention of a license on the site.

<comment><USER13> It is built with GWT. It does not have a standard FOSS license since it is not (yet) open source. The license is included with the download, it still fairly standard, the product is free no strings attached.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> I prefer the extremely lightweight Adminer: [http://www.adminer.org/en/](http://www.adminer.org/en/)

It works great for MySQL, SQLite and can be used for some basic PostgreSQL work too.

<comment><USER16> The headline says "Database management in single PHP file".

Is this correct english? Im not a native english speaker. To me it sounds like it should read "in a single PHP file".

Same with "Replace phpMyAdmin by Adminer and you will get tidier user interface"

<comment> martin-adams I'd say the word 'single' is redundant as it a PHP file. How about "Database management in a PHP file"?

But then it doesn't have as much impact emphasising the simplicity of it.

<comment><USER17> It is odd. "a file" almost feels less specific than "a single file", even though the latter is technically redundant.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> I don't use PhpMyAdmin a lot, only when there is no other option available (I prefer SQLyog). But lately I got very frustrated by the interface changes.

Then I discovered the option to enable the old theme again. A great tool!

<comment><USER19> I use SequelPro (OS X, Free). It's fast and lightweight, it can tunnel through SSH.

<comment><USER20> Tunneling is my favorite feature. Being able to keep both unnecessary services from running (phpMyAdmin) and disabling SSH passwords make me a happy solo sysadmin. Not that I wouldn't run phpMyAdmin if I had to, but since it's just me and people I administer on my boxes, I can use the tools I want, and keep active code to a minimum.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> I'd appreciate it more if they'd just stop doing

         SELECT COUNT(*)

on innodb tables (which do not handle that query well with many rows). Yes there is a workaround but it is flawed.

<comment><USER22> What should you use on InnoDB tables instead?

<comment><USER23> Get a quick estimate out of SHOW TABLE STATUS

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> I think phpMyAdmin v4 is a backward move. They got rid of frames in favor of a more ajaxified UI but it is running many times slower than the <3.5 versions. I understand using Frames is supposed to be bad but in this case they offered a better user experience.

<comment><USER25> Not only is it slower, but it breaks down massively for those of us with good numbers of databases and tables. It feels like it was developed and tested with someone's single database, three table blog engine.

</comment></comment><comment><USER26> phpMyAdmin gets dumped on a lot but it was a big help for me when I was just learning to write my own queries. The way it shows you the query that powers each action you run is a great learning tool.

</comment><comment><USER27> I use it a lot for local development, but wouldn't install it on a production server for security reasons. However, if you run commands in phpMyAdmin, it actually gives you the SQL code for your desired action, which you can then copy and paste to the command line on your production server.

</comment><comment><USER28> The new AJAXified interface is slower and more inconsistent. The inline edit feature never works and has a very subtle feedback. But hey, it's ubiquitous and it gets the job done. However, I've started using SequelPro on OS X as a replacement which works pretty great.

</comment><comment><USER29> It may be just me, but I personally would not mention the lines of code as a success story metric.

I feel like lots of line of code usually means bloat.

That aside, I often use phpMyAdmin and it is a great tool for those quick little edits! And if you know already about SQL then it is really easy to use.

<comment><USER30> I wouldn't necessarily dismiss lots of lines of code as bloat, but In this case you are probably right.

<comment><USER31> Indeed, it's like measuring the quality of a plane by its weight, but it's not hard to gauge "too much" weight.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER32> I don't use PhpMyAdmin but my servers get hit regularly from vulnerability- bots looking for holes in phpmyadmin/*.php pages.

Are there a lot of known security issues outstanding?

<comment><USER33> I don't know, but anything PHP usually does. Even if it didn't, it'd still be a good target as a lot of people are gonna put on some weak password as they don't realise how publicly visible it is.

</comment></comment><comment><USER34> PhpMyAdmin has been great. It's really one of the only reasons I was able to learn PHP + MySQL in high school. It's quick, simple, and convenient on Windows.

</comment><comment><USER35> MySQL Workbench trumps the other tools for managing MySQL, but for quick web access I prefer Adminer. It's easier to set up, appears less cluttered and fast.

</comment><comment><USER36> This is one of the (many) apps we looked at when we started working on JackDB[1]. It's a database client in your browser. Rather than just a table interface though, JackDB is a full featured query editor and even includes scrolling result sets.

Besides MySQL, we also support PostgreSQL (what we use in house), Oracle and MS SQL Server.

[1]: [http://www.jackdb.com/](http://www.jackdb.com/)

</comment><comment><USER37> For Yii fans, there is a similar project called Chive [1].

[1] [http://www.chive-project.com/](http://www.chive-project.com/)

<comment><USER38> Chive is excellent software, Yii fan or not. It has bugs, but the few bugs I encounter with it are worth the pain to not have to fuss with phpMyAdmin.

</comment></comment><comment><USER39> PhpMyAdmin has turned into an utter mess. I use - and most definitely rely on it - daily. But every version since 2.X has been a step back. The AJAX in the latest version is disastrous. Everything about it is slower than the older frame versions. Worse yet, even simple tasks such as renaming a table or column will cause it to go non-responsive.

</comment><comment><USER40> [http://mywebsql.net/](http://mywebsql.net/) ia an interesting alternative.

</comment><comment><USER41> I remember when you were only maybe 5 or 6 years old. I was maybe 21 and I used you to get a MySQL database in shape so that I could create a submission tool for programming contest. One of my first web apps! Congrats PHPMyAdmin on turning 15!

</comment><comment><USER42> I get quite a bit of phpMyAdmin nostalgia when I'm going through my server logs.

<comment><USER36> Yeah I think we all do. In fact not too long after posting a link to our app in this thread I got another one:

        Sep  9 12:58:29 [41.66.xxx.xxx] GET /phpMyAdmin/translators.html [1 ms]

</comment></comment><comment><USER43> Wow.... 15 years! Working at a hosting provider way back when I would die a little inside every time someone asked me to install phpmyadmin for their databases.

I'm sure it's come a long way (at least I hope it has).

</comment><comment><USER44> if any one is looking for lightweight alternatives, checkout SQL Buddy ([http://sqlbuddy.com/](http://sqlbuddy.com/)) .

</comment><comment><USER45> PhpMyAdmin has saved my butt many times with a bad joomla install or when I need to output sql. I mostly use navicat these days when I need to touch mysql.

</comment><comment><USER46> When I was a security auditor, finding a PHPMyAdmin instance would make my day. Somehow, the customer would not share in my joy. How peculiar.

<comment><USER47> To be fair, nowadays phpmyadmin is mostly only good for escalating privileges, not obtaining them in the first place. I don't think they've had a serious pre-auth flaw in a while.

<comment><USER46> In most cases it wasn't even PHPMyAdmin's fault per se, but the people not taking 5 minutes to harden it or upgrade it. In many cases, no offence to the makers of this tool, finding a phpmyadmin instance (especially not up-to-date) was a tell tale sign of trouble ahead. Phpmyadmin has caused trouble for people you can't even begin to imagine (ok you probably can). Oh the memories.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER48> Is anything similar to PhpMyAdmin that's made for MongoDB? Been looking for something decent with no luck =/

</comment><comment><USER49> Navicat is infinitely more useful for mysql database administration, especially with the option to login via ssh

<comment><USER50> Why would you need SSH login option in phpMyAdmin? It was designed for single- server setups where the interpreter sits next to the database.

<comment><USER8> You don't need it for phpMyAdmin. The comment was mentioning the ssh tunnel feature as an advantage in desktop clients like navicat, which allows you to access the database while still running it on localhost.

<comment><USER49> Yes you connect from your desktop to the server with Navicat

Also means you are more secure since PHPMYADMIN has a history of vulnerabilities and less to run on the server, so your database server can run mysql and nothing else (well maybe stunnel for encrypted connection to your app servers)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER51> phpmyadmin is not the best mysql frontend one can have but it is simple to install, easy to use and makes many things incredibly simple.

For example for my mobile backends, I use only phpmyadmin to populate the data and use rails scaffolds to provide json outout to the mobile clients.

</comment><comment><USER52> I used to use it a lot, but now that I got on to navicat, I never gone back to it anymore.

</comment><comment><USER53> lifesaver!!

</comment><comment><USER54> kill it with fire</comment>


Uber to stop controversial tracking of users after their trips have ended - <AUTHOR> https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/uber-app-privacy-controversial-location-tracking-permissions-a7918031.html <comment><USER2> So we (end users) are just supposed to take their word for it?

</comment><comment><USER3> GDPR means get out of Europe if you continue, so probably there's that.</comment>


Will handheld gaming ever die out in favor of mobile platforms? - <AUTHOR>

What made me think: http://portablegamingregion.com/the-future-of-mobile-and-handheld-gaming/<p>Basically, Vita is half-dead after only a year on the market, manufacturers are becoming more interested in creating gaming tablets and mobile accessories, in spite of the optimization issues, the framework for mobile development is MUCH better... Thoughts? <comment><USER2> Mobile platforms are hand-held, right? Thus hand-held gaming does not die, but only thrives. The old model of game consoles whether for the living room or hand held and their premium priced games however is threatened.

<comment><AUTHOR> Very witty of you, but no, mobile gaming refers to gaming on mobile platforms that are NOT dedicated gaming systems, like tablets, smartphones, PDS's, etc.</comment></comment>


White House to mandate deletion of irrelevant private data - <AUTHOR> http://www.theverge.com/2015/2/3/7969423/data-collection-surveillence-limits

<comment><USER2> FTA: "such as when the United States' surveillance of German Chancellor Angela Merkel became public"

That was shown to be a fake NSA document, most likely planted (somehow) by Russian intelligence. [http://www.vox.com/2014/12/12/7381539/merkel-phone- tapped-ns...](http://www.vox.com/2014/12/12/7381539/merkel-phone-tapped-nsa)

"an investigation by Germany's top prosecutor has found no evidence that the tapping ever occurred. He says he also believes that the document may not even be authentic"</comment>


Ask HN: Data efficient protocol for mobile app? - <AUTHOR>

We are designing an information sharing app (news and Q&A) targeting a developing country. One of the major turning off for the users is the cell phone data expense. Which protocol do you recommend for this scenario? <comment><USER2> Apache Thrift ([https://thrift.apache.org/](https://thrift.apache.org/)) or Protocol Buffers ([https://developers.google.com/protocol- buffers/](https://developers.google.com/protocol-buffers/)).</comment>


IOS Web traffic share surpasses Mac OS for first time ever - <AUTHOR> http://www.bgr.com/2012/02/10/ios-web-traffic-share-surpasses-mac-os-for-first-time-ever/ <comment><USER2> Results from research "conducted by leading ad network Chitika".

I'm not convinced that this result is true in the boolean sense of the word.</comment>


Stunt Pilot - our first flash game - <AUTHOR> http://www.rocksolidarcade.com We've just put up an initial version of our site, Rock Solid Arcade, along with our first flash game, Stunt Pilot. It's in semi-beta right now - the site itself is just one page, I'm working on the dynamic site in django to integrate high scores, comments etc. But the game itself is fully playable and pretty much done (we'll probably add features as time goes on). I'd really appreciate it if you could check it out and let me know what you think! <comment><USER2> How is the time bonus calculated? I keep getting whole number multiples.

Edit: Wanted to add that I like it. Good job. It could be more addictive though: eg: I never _ever_ want to restart from level 1.

</comment><comment><USER3> Cool game. My only suggestion would be to add a way for the player to unlock the higher levels and/or earn more lives. Kinda sucks to have to start at level one each time the game is played.

<comment><AUTHOR> I guess it's kind of an artifact of the way the game was developed. It was meant to be something where you just try to maximize your score (so starting in the middle wouldn't really be a good idea), but then we went and added 42 levels to it...

<comment><USER4> You could give the player the option to trade points for extra lives.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Very nice execution. The dynamic of the planes motion control is very satisfying. I also like the clean graphics and the Rock Solid Blimp.

Quick idea for taking or leaving: Add some different bail-out animations. Parachute, rocket-pack, umbrella, anvil (Think Wile E. Coyote), etc.

Nice work.

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> This is the initial submission text, reposted as a comment as it doesn't appear to be showing...

Hi guys,

We've just put up an initial version of our site, Rock Solid Arcade, along with our first flash game, Stunt Pilot. It's in semi-beta right now - the site itself is just one page, I'm working on the dynamic site in django to integrate high scores, comments etc. But the game itself is fully playable and pretty much done (we'll probably add features as time goes on). I'd really appreciate it if you could check it out and let me know what you think!

<comment><USER6> The text only shows up if you don't submit a link. This really threw me off for a while.

I played the game for five minutes -- I think I'm better than average at playing new games and I found it challenging. You want more of a learning curve. I would recommend making the loops bigger. I hit the sides of them too much. Maybe you can make them smaller again on later stages. Is the game too easy if you add a continue button, or passwords?

Also, do you get bonus points for doing loops? I'm not sure how the chain concept works. Is there a limit on boosts? These things aren't really clear. A tutorial might help, though I know it's better to put the player right in the game. When I initially started, I crashed into the ground twice. You should detect for this on first run and pop up telling the player that up is down and down is up, just like a real stunt plane.

Technically, you guys did a good job, the game seems to work flawlessly. One tiny thing I notice is that when you end the level while still flying vertically, the plane corrects itself pretty harshly. I think it would look better if you slowed that animation down, or maybe made it always finish in an extra loop... or don't take control away from the player and let him crash the plane if he wants.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for the feedback! Did you use the thrust button a lot when you were crashing?

<comment><USER6> I made it to level 12, I think, when I mostly stopped using the boost button. The game over screen is unsatisfying, it would be fine if you added a "Best Run" indicator on the main screen. You'll want to do global high scores eventually too.

<comment><AUTHOR> Yeah, we'll be doing global high scores, and also stuff like challange a friend over Facebook etc. Just have to write the site next, as well as work on the next game! I think I'll put the last high score and best high score on the main menu tomorrow though, that's a good idea for the short term.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Very slick game

only comment is i dont like going back to restart after dying...should at least be a few continues

</comment><comment><USER8> Nice game!

If you have no use for left and right, I'd suggest that left goes up and right goes down, as well as the normal controls.

<comment><USER5> "left goes up and right goes down"

Seconded. This seems like a more natural control scheme considering the plane's orientation.

<comment><USER9> i disagree

<comment><USER8> I emulated the control scheme I proposed by rotating the keyboard 90 degrees and guess what, I made it through all the levels by losing only one life on level 40. I never made it even close to half this before.

The problem with having up + down instead of left + right is that (like most people?) I alternate pressing up and down with only the middle finger, while I have 1 finger on each key in the left + right scheme.

Considering that it doesn't take away anything for anyone to enable this additional, arguably superior control scheme, I think this is the crucial next feature to implement.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Plays very nicely.

One comment is that it's not obvious that you can go through the rings in any order, so the first level where you might want to do this seems extremely hard at first and is jarring compared to the previous couple of levels which were cakewalks. Maybe a little flashing info at the beginning of that level that tells you that you can go in any order at all.

Also, the first two levels were just way too easy, maybe, and a little boring.

It would be more fun if there were more reason to boost. A time bar at the bottom or top of the screen that starts full and ticks down to zero as an indication of how much bonus you will get when you finish would be a great indicator of where you are for time and I can totally see the user trying to boost at the end or throughout trying to finish the level while the time bar is at a more full state.

</comment><comment><USER11> Crashing into one of the big hot air balloons is not nearly as satisfying as it should be :)

Just an aesthetic note, but the yellow smoke trail is a bit unappealing. A red color might show up better against the background, and the color does add a hint more excitement.

Or perhaps some simple customization where you choose your smoke color at the start (also functioning as the start button).

Other than that... very fun. Definitely could get popular on facebook with challenges and best scores/times for each level and overall, or just as a fun way to pass time.

<comment><USER11> and maybe I didn't get far enough, but this type of game definitely needs moving rings. Adds tons of extra challenge and excitement (and if you have some smooth rotation effect for the rings as they move it would look pretty cool too).

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> I think it could be cool if we could stop the engine temporarily in midair and hover. It would let us make sharper turns when for example you're going up and then need to make a 90 degrees turn. I'm not sure if the physics make sense but I think the feeling would be great!

The restarting of the engine would have to be perfectly timed with the release of the key though, unlike the boost.

Oh yeah, and the "time left" label in the bonus rounds is truncated.

</comment><comment><USER12> love it, however adds some credits that the user can restart if they want to from the level they made it too.

I am not sure how you are going to do this but here are a couple of my thoughts. Each user to your sight starts with say 10 credits and can earn more for completing a game, inviting friends, highscores and {INSERT OTHER}

You could also add fruit machines so people could gamble the credits and earn more to play on the games.

</comment><comment><USER13> From the name I assumed I would get more points for being creative with my flying.

Here's my idea: Sky write with their trails and get uber bonuses for making certain shapes.

Make a star out of smoke, it flashes solid and you get invulnerability for a few moments. That kind of thing.

-Ian

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for the comments guys, it's been really helpful. We're planning a revision in a few days that'll fix a lot of problems, including:

> Better instructions

> Option to reverse the controls

> Remember high score on main menu

> Continue from within the game

</comment><comment><USER14> I like the game. I suppose it would be nice to have a password for each level (like in the "minefields" games for exemple : <http://www.zeronews- fr.com/flash/v-9-mindfields2.html>).

</comment><comment><USER15> The big balloons crashing you vs the small balloons giving you point seems a bit counter-intuitive. The restarting on Level 1 after making it quite far made me stop playing. That's definitely the most glaring issue I saw. Overall excellent work.

</comment><comment><USER16> Is it possible to make these kinds of games multiplayer? I think dogfighting would be fun, or co-op stunts. Maybe a sandbox mode?

Anyways, I like the game, and echo the request for level unlocking.

<comment><AUTHOR> Multiplayer is definitely possible, but it opens up a few issues that we're not really happy dealing with yet. After a few games, definitely.

The first multiplayer games we do will probably be something far less twitchy, because lag between countries won't be so much of a problem (we simply can't afford to go and rent servers in many different countries, which we'd have to do for a twitch game).

But something like a multiplayer strategy game, we could just use EC2 to spawn instances to handle it. I'm not sure whether we'd make a profit on the traffic at the time that they're actually playing the multiplayer games (it depends how many people per server can be hosted), but I'm willing to be that it would still be worth it all round.

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> guns, more guns

</comment><comment><USER18> very cool. nice and simple, i love the three graphics explaining game play at the bottom. controls seem a but un-intuitive though.. up/down are reversed, and left/right might be a better fit

</comment><comment><USER19> I'm not really a fan of the genre, which I call "see how well you can maneuver some hard to control object", but it's very well done.

I do like the casual flash gaming market a lot though.

</comment><comment><USER20> addictive i'd say! can't wait for multiplayer.

Creating a multiplayer game with a click of a button giving you a url you can give someone through instant messenger and join you instantly.

other things i think that would add more fun:

new levels with thunders, moving obstacles, warfare trying to shoot you down,

missions like delivering parcels.

and maybe in the hall of fame you could show the most risky pilots (i guess you could measure speed and angle entering/avoiding the obstacles)

</comment><comment><USER21> I like it.

As a pilot, I'd like to see you add airspeed and stalling -- you just can't fly a plane anywhere you point the stick at -- but other than that, looks like a fun little game.

</comment><comment><USER22> Doesn't seem to be working on Opera. Once you tap up or down on keyboard, it just spirals out of control. I'm on OS X 10.4.11

</comment><comment><USER23> I used to work on console games and I think you've got the handling on the plane just right. Nice job. Good luck.

</comment><comment><USER24> Nice Game. I wish you didn't have to start over from scratch everytime, otherwise very nice.

</comment><comment><USER12> after playing it some more and a bit to much the feature I want is the ability to reverse the controls if I want. so up is up and down is down. Little button at the bottom of the screen is needed or maybe an option at the start.

</comment><comment><USER25> Really nice graphics and sounds, but I am not hooked by this. At least not yet.

</comment><comment><USER26> I like it. I works smoothly, which you can't say of all flash games.

</comment><comment><USER27> Outstanding! Cant stop playing.

</comment><comment><USER28> Nice! It is hard.

</comment><comment><USER29> I love it!

</comment><comment><USER30> Like it.

</comment><comment><USER31> love it

</comment><comment><USER32> i like it alot</comment>


Giving in to feel good: Why self-regulation fails - <AUTHOR> http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/dont-delay/200804/giving-in-feel-good-why-self-regulation-fails

<comment><USER2> Would have liked it better if it had gone in more depth. Nevertheless, it was a good one.

"The message to each of us should be clear as well. If we focus on our feelings in the short term, we'll undermine ourselves in the long run." That was a powerful point.

And this was funny and so true, easy to lose them or put them to sleep this way: "Me: "Sweetie, according to Dianne Tice and Ellen Bratslavsky it's not the best strategy to focus on your feelings now, it's . . . sweetie?? Where are you?""

Thanks.</comment>


Wanna be a hacker - <AUTHOR> http://simplygetit.blogspot.com/2010/03/ethical-hacking.html The most interesting job in the field of computers is being an Ethical Hacker; this course has a vast demand now. <comment><USER2> He looks like a scam to me.

<comment><USER2> <http://gstek.info/forum/index.php?topic=1209.0></comment></comment>


Foreign data wrappers: PostgreSQL's secret weapon? - <AUTHOR> https://www.splitgraph.com/blog/foreign-data-wrappers <comment><USER2> Off-topic, but are FDW's a reasonable way to migrate data between databases?

We have most of our data in a Postgres DB with a layout we like: multiple "core" or low-level schemas and a higher-level API schema which is how all other services interact with it (reads and writes). We also have a few much smaller but very important additional SQL DBs (Postgres and MySQL). There's no good reason all this data can't or shouldn't live together (it's really all one "service"), and plenty ways it would make our architecture and dev work simpler (we join across them all the time).

So, I figure for each smaller DB, I could expose it with an FDW from the DB we like, and use those tables in that DB's API schema. Once we settle on good API & usage patterns there, I would then copy data from the FDW tables into local tables, update references in the API schema, and finally drop the FDW and decom the other DB's.

Is that sane? I know the usual caveats about order-of-operations, potentially writing to two places for some time to ensure no data is lost, etc. and am not worried about those.

<comment><USER3> Back in my DBA days, I used the MSSQL equivalent, "Linked Servers", to set up regularly scheduled ETLs. It's a nice way to reason about tables since you can test your joins in real time. The only real implication here is performance, as someone else mentioned in another comment, joins can be quite slow. In my case my ETLs were usually once daily and the fact that they took 1 minute instead of 1 second was not a huge deal.

<comment><USER4> I've also used this, combined with an agent job to keep data in sync between a primary system of record and a replica.

In my case I was moving account number information between iSeries db2 and an ArcGIS instance.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Perhaps the title should change to "Using PostgreSQL's foreign data wrappers with Splitgraph" since this seems to be a tutorial to that effect.

<comment><USER6> Every technical blog post is these days, all just part of one massive content strategy grift. It's tiring. I miss the old days of good technical writers writing useful blog posts which people read and appreciated.

<comment><USER7> For Postgres specifically, I've been enjoying Bruce Momjian's blog lately [1]. He posts some tidbit every day or two, and not trivial things you'd already know. depesz.com is great too and really helps you stay on top of what's new in Postgres. And the pg consulting companies post quite a lot of great articles that aren't really about selling you something. (Obviously they would be happy for you to hire them, but that's pretty indirect.)

[1] [https://momjian.us/main/blogs/pgblog/2020.html](https://momjian.us/main/blogs/pgblog/2020.html)

<comment><USER8> Thanks for sharing.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> I'm using Postgres FDW at my current work and, while it has its advantages and use cases, JOIN operations can be terribly slow. Also, good luck (not) working with remote sequences.

<comment><USER10> I'm struggling with this at the moment. Any tips to make JOINs faster?

And a question for any postgres people: say I have two distinct databases, but now need to join across them. What's best practice here?

<comment><USER11> There's some query planner tweaks you can use to speed up JOINs with FDWs [0]. In layered querying [1], we had an issue with the planner choosing nested loop joins (which essentially run as multiple small single-row fetches) which tank performance if starting a scan has a large latency overhead. This can happen if the FDW underreports its startup cost.

If you use `SET enable_nestloop=off`, this will disable them for that session and use alternative strategies (like hash or merge join) which might be faster.

[0] [https://www.postgresql.org/docs/current/runtime-config- query...](https://www.postgresql.org/docs/current/runtime-config-query.html)

[1] [https://www.splitgraph.com/docs/large-datasets/layered- query...](https://www.splitgraph.com/docs/large-datasets/layered-querying)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> you just took a feature of postgresql and mentioned it in your article to sell your product.

you didnt answer your own question. is it a secret weapon?

<comment><AUTHOR> Splitgraph co-founder here. Splitgraph is based on PostgreSQL, so naturally all of its features are part of Splitgraph as well. We want to add value to a battle-tested RDBMS rather than inventing a database from the ground up.

In particular, we really like the feature of foreign data wrappers, and it forms the basis of one of our core abstractions ("mounting" upstream data) [0]. We've added a lot of scaffolding to make writing and using FDWs easier with a Splitgraph engine (which is just Postgres with the Splitgraph library loaded into it). You can also IMPORT from upstream sources using Splitfiles, to pack the data into a versioned "image" (analogous to Dockerfiles and docker images).

As for whether they're a secret weapon? Well, they're not so secret, but it does seem like they're underutilized considering the power they grant. We certainly like them.

[0] I wrote a post today about how we use a Socrata FDW to "mount" 40k+ government datasets, making them all available via SQL: [https://www.splitgraph.com/blog/40k-sql- datasets](https://www.splitgraph.com/blog/40k-sql-datasets)

<comment><USER13> > As for whether they're a secret weapon? Well, they're not so secret, but it > does seem like they're underutilized considering the power they grant. We > certainly like them.

They are indeed powerful and underutilized. They also go by different names in other RDBMSes (proxy tables, linked servers, remote tables, virtual tables, etc.). If I remember correctly, SQL Anywhere 6 released in 1998 was the first rich implementation [1] of "proxy tables" to "remote servers" and Microsoft soon followed with "Linked Servers". The embedded database libraries (Apache Derby and SQLite) added rich APIs/SPIs to create virtual table plugins like SQLite's FTS.

Using remote tables for federated queries across heterogenous data sources, and for access to non-relational data sources, is a well established technique and a powerful "weapon" for those who know how to wield it. It might not be PostgreSQL's secret weapon but it may very well be Splitgraph's.

[1] [http://dcx.sap.com/index.html#1001/en/dbwnen10/wn-remote- new...](http://dcx.sap.com/index.html#1001/en/dbwnen10/wn-remote-new601.html)

<comment><USER14> I think oracle had database links before 1998 which enables you to have proxy tables for tables in other oracle databases.

<comment><USER13> It looks like Oracle had CREATE DATABASE LINK since at least 7.3 [1] in 1996 (probably earlier too but I couldn't find when it was introduced). It wasn't Oracle-only either:

> However, to access non-Oracle systems you must use Oracle Heterogeneous > Services.

[1] [https://docs.oracle.com/cd/A57673_01/DOC/server/doc/SQL73/ch...](https://docs.oracle.com/cd/A57673_01/DOC/server/doc/SQL73/ch4a.htm#toc087)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> This is something I used a lot with oracle. They call it remote dB link. I often wonder the impact of this if this was vendor agnostic..especially for ETL, the world will change

<comment><USER16> Postgres does dblink too (which is Postgres to Postgres I believe). FDW is more general in that it allows using, say, mongo collections as tables.

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> This reminds me of SQLite's Virtual Tables. You can even return data from an HTTP API and make it look like data from a table.

</comment><comment><USER18> On the subject of foreign data wrappers, there's an extension for storing columnar data in Postgres which is implemented via this concept: [https://github.com/citusdata/cstore_fdw](https://github.com/citusdata/cstore_fdw)

I haven't used it myself but it's pretty cool that it's out there.

<comment><USER11> Splitgraph co-founder here. cstore_fdw is great (we even use it in Splitgraph to store data [0])! It's not as fast as purpose-built columnar stores like MonetDB. However, it plugs seamlessly into PostgreSQL and supports all types, even those added via extensions. Read performance for OLAP workloads like aggregations is better than PostgreSQL [1] and it has a much smaller IO load and disk footprint (you can get long runs of similar values in column-oriented storage, which compress better). As a nice bonus, you can simply swap cstore_fdw files in and out of the database without having to "load" them into PostgreSQL. We use this idea too to enable data sharing.

[0] [https://www.splitgraph.com/docs/concepts/objects](https://www.splitgraph.com/docs/concepts/objects)

[1] [https://tech.marksblogg.com/billion-nyc-taxi-rides- postgresq...](https://tech.marksblogg.com/billion-nyc-taxi-rides- postgresql.html)

</comment></comment><comment><USER19> If you like this you can find a lot of secret weapons in PostgreSQL just by reading the documentation.

</comment><comment><USER20> I've only used them once, to be able to query some of pgbouncer's "tables" from postgresql. It works like a charm, but I'm not concerned at all with performance with queries such as these.

</comment><comment><USER21> Could one run a separate Postgres instance for each table in a large schema, and use FDW to stitch it all back together?

To what extent would this be noticeable to applications?

Could this be an interesting scaling/reliability strategy in some circumstances?

<comment><USER11> Splitgraph co-founder (and post author) here. Most PostgreSQL clients don't treat foreign tables any differently than real ones, but note that things like FK constraints or triggers will have to be resolved on the remote server (your app essentially talks to an adapter that rewrites queries and forwards them to the remote database). This might not work that well as a scaling/reliability strategy (since you're still sending queries to one central database) though.

But this is actually one of the cool use cases we built Splitgraph for: you can mount a bunch of remote databases (doesn't have to be PG, can be Mongo/MySQL etc), Splitgraph images and even remote datasets like Socrata[1] into a single workspace and run e.g. JOINs between them. We optimize for the OLAP (read-only) use case and have a special FDW for querying remote Splitgraph images (we call this layered querying [0]). It downloads required regions of the table in the background, completely seamlessly to the client application. So you can spin up a lightweight Splitgraph engine at the edge and point a PostgreSQL client to it. This will let you satisfy read-only queries to huge remote datasets with a small local cache.

Re: compatibility, we have tested this setup with various analytics software and PostgreSQL clients like DBeaver/Metabase/dbt[2] and it works pretty well.

[0] [https://www.splitgraph.com/docs/large-datasets/layered- query...](https://www.splitgraph.com/docs/large-datasets/layered-querying)

[1] [https://www.splitgraph.com/blog/40k-sql- datasets](https://www.splitgraph.com/blog/40k-sql-datasets)

[2] [https://www.splitgraph.com/product/splitgraph/integrations](https://www.splitgraph.com/product/splitgraph/integrations)

</comment></comment><comment><USER22> Love postgres. But for fdw don't you have to spell out the schema? That makes it hard for quickly accessing arbitrary data. Would be nice if it would deduce the schema.

<comment><USER23> [https://www.postgresql.org/docs/current/sql- importforeignsch...](https://www.postgresql.org/docs/current/sql- importforeignschema.html)

</comment></comment><comment><USER24> Beware of the performance hit if you do this over the internet. We used this with PostGIS and data was copied back and forth through the network pretty inefficiently.

</comment><comment><USER25> what are the downsides to foreign data wrappers?

<comment><USER11> Splitgraph co-founder (and post author!) here. By far the biggest problem with foreign data wrappers is that you're still forced into PostgreSQL's format of treating and returning each tuple separately. There's some research being done in PostgreSQL [0] with pluggable storage formats as an alternative to using FDWs for querying. Also, Citus had a prototype that would hook into the query planner to vectorize cstore_fdw aggregations [1]: this is also promising for getting around some FDW restrictions.

FDWs aren't really that layperson-friendly: to set one up, you need to run a lot of SQL boilerplate like CREATE FOREIGN SERVER, CREATE USER MAPPING and CREATE FOREIGN TABLE. We wanted to make them more accessible through our sgr mount [2] command and snapshottable via Splitfiles (e.g. [3]).

The point about data types changing is also a good one. Where the foreign data wrapper doesn't implement IMPORT FOREIGN SCHEMA [4] through introspection on the foreign database side, you have to enumerate all columns and types in CREATE FOREIGN TABLE. If a column on the remote table goes away, the FDW might still query it and cause runtime errors.

[0] [https://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/Future_of_storage](https://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/Future_of_storage)

[1] [https://github.com/citusdata/postgres_vectorization_test](https://github.com/citusdata/postgres_vectorization_test)

[2] [https://www.splitgraph.com/docs/sgr/data-import- export/mount](https://www.splitgraph.com/docs/sgr/data-import-export/mount)

[3] [https://www.splitgraph.com/docs/ingesting- data/socrata#split...](https://www.splitgraph.com/docs/ingesting- data/socrata#splitfile)

[4] [https://www.postgresql.org/docs/current/sql- importforeignsch...](https://www.postgresql.org/docs/current/sql- importforeignschema.html)

<comment><USER26> how's performance?

<comment><USER11> You always have the latency/bandwidth overhead from moving queries/data between instances, but FDW performance can be surprisingly fast. There's a performance-FDW complexity spectrum and you can choose a point on it that's applicable to your use case.

At its simplest, the FDW can just return all tuples from the remote database without filtering them (letting the local DB run filtering). But more advanced FDWs like postgres_fdw[0] can push down qualifiers and joins to the remote database. postgres_fdw even runs EXPLAIN on the remote instance and parses its output -- essentially letting the local and the foreign query planners collaborate on execution.

[0] [https://www.postgresql.org/docs/current/postgres- fdw.html#id...](https://www.postgresql.org/docs/current/postgres- fdw.html#id-22.214.171.124.13)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> wrote a side project using FDW to query twitter like 7 years ago. i really expected this part of postgres to never be talked about again, but alas. It was super easy to use it once built, but when I looked at the source code of the twitter one, it didn't seem super straightforward

</comment><comment><USER28> I found this kind of interesting, enough to want to learn more about ProgreSQL.</comment>


Evidence that ancient farms had different origins than previously thought - <AUTHOR> https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/08/evidence-that-humans-had-farms-30000-years-earlier-than-previously-thought/ <comment><USER2> > "Anthropologists are simply realizing that early cities took extremely > diverse forms. "Clearly, urbanism is different in different parts of the > world, and we need to be more flexible in how we define this," he explained. > The tropics demonstrate that where we draw the lines of agriculture and > urbanism can be very difficult to determine."

It seems that the more humans learn about any topic: our own agricultural history, biology, psychology, mathematics, etc we begin to reach conclusions similar to the above. Wow, this is much more complex than we thought it was. I find this in my own life as I explore socio-political topics also - it seems the deeper one dives into any topic the more difficult it is to, as the article says, "draw the lines". Has anybody experienced an intellectual exploration to the contrary?

<comment><USER3> Yes, in the sense that cross-discipline study sometimes reveals common themes. One field having complex dynamics might make the world seem complicated. When many fields have _the same_ complex dynamics, you start to wonder if there's something simple you can tease out of it.

<comment><USER4> Are you sure your digging deep enough? I have seen plenty of cases where different fields seemed to share a theme. But, the details always diverged on closer inspection, limiting the value of the comparison.

To stretch an analogy stacking blocks seems like you can add the heights, except the weight of the stack deforms them, so addition is misleading.

<comment><USER5> Human themes (archaeology, art, architecture, urban development, etc) share the commonality of the human. As we learn more about general themes driving our psyche and human groups general themes start to emerge. Of course, the emergent behavior of human societies is really complex. I like Noel Harari's "Sapiens" as he really strives to find the high level themes in humanitys development.

IMO, if a topic sounds overtly complex and focuses on a legion arbitrary seeming minutiae and, most crucially, you can't find the _empiric or mathematical root cause_ for this complexity it's likely the direction of study is more or less bogus and based on academic eminence rather than evidence.

<comment><USER4> Urban development really is it's own thing dominated by transportation systems, wealth, waste management etc. The complex math is vital and independent from other human constructs. Architecture was often influenced by the tax code, climate, material property's etc so again the details really are important and separate from everything else.

Now, sure the boundarys around a field gets fuzzy and sculpture and architecture are both influenced by the human visual system so there is overlap. But, that's not a shared theme that's D.C. and Baltimore being next to each other and sharing a few suburbs at one end, but not all suburbs.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Here's enough TLDR so that my comment makes sense: _In the tropics, the distinction between agriculture and hunter-gathering less sharp than in temperate climates. Thus early signs of tropical agriculture (from 20-30 kyears ago) pre-date the traditionally understood rise of agriculture about 9 kyears ago)._

This confirms my Sri Lankan bemusement at the term "temperate climate". The tropics can be a PITA in many ways, but they have no shortage of biomass. Subsistence gardens abound and are productive. Even more than in other gardens, the issue is less to make things grow, but to stop the wrong things from growing. It's hardly surprising if ancient jungle dwellers long ago to tilted nature's bounty in their direction.

But I do take exception to the somewhat hippy-dippy claim that _... "colonial, industrial societies" came from outside the tropics and tried "to practice monoculture, pastoralism, and urbanism within them."_ Those "evils" took place in the tropics for thousands of years before western colonialists turned up.

</comment><comment><USER7> When I was growing up, things seemed pretty much settled. We knew where the first humans came from, we knew when and where agriculture started, we even had 9 planets in our solar system.

This was the truths scientists had discovered and it was unquestionable. It was printed in books to last forever.

But you grow up, and you realize that these things are malleable. It's more like as of 1998, Lucy is the oldest human remains we discovered, using x method.

I'm not saying it's a conspiracy or anything, but I think we should leave a little wiggle room in the way we make these statements from now on.

Though I haven't read a history or science book from a school curriculum in years so I can't say if that's already what is being done.

<comment> photon-torpedo Yeah, absolute statements like "the science is settled" are rather unscientific. Good science must acknowledge the limits of our knowledge, and leave the door open to being proven wrong.

<comment><USER8> Every point of knowledge has a degree of certainty or uncertainty around it. It certainly isn't a point that is taught well enough in education.

"The science is settled that the universe is about 13.8 billion years old" is a perfectly fair statement, for instance.

<comment><USER9> Science never settles anything, it's why it's such a successful idea. "Current evidence says the world is about 13.8 billion years old" is the way I would word that. With your method, a later revision says science was wrong, when it just didn't have enough evidence.

<comment><USER8> It makes a difference whether you're speaking pragmatically or philosophically. Since we live in a practical universe, there are facts of science that are so well established that there is no reason to doubt them. And many facts that aren't as well established.

<comment><USER10> I know in this practical universe, Newton's laws of physics and Einstein's views of quantum physics were both at one point "facts" but later shown to be mere approximations and both of them worth being doubted. There's no point to having science if all we are going to do is assume everything that comes out of the process as the gospel.

<comment><USER11> > There's no point to having science if all we are going to do is assume > everything that comes out of the process as the gospel.

As far as I can tell, nobody in this thread is even remotely suggesting that.

<comment><USER10> If I didn't think the parent I was replying to was suggesting exactly that, then I wouldn't have made the reply I did.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> This isn't exactly news. Archaeologists have known this for awhile, though it's maybe not part of popular thought. We have populations on earth that live as Paleolithic peoples elsewhere once did, and they cultivate plants.

The importance of the Neolithic Revolution was the population explosion that came with easily harvested grain in a hospitable environment and the resultant freeing up of labour to create more complex societies and technologies.

</comment><comment><USER13> The tropics being the tropics (lots of plant growth), it was probably difficult to do such studies before the era of satellites and lidar that is able to penetrate the forests and topsoil to reveal just what was hidden.

Going forward, we'll probably learn much more about the practice of ancient agriculture and hunter-gathering societies in tropical regions.

BTW, Paleontology has a similar problem. Most fossils are found in deserts or as part of construction work simply because they are easier to find in those areas. There are probably as many fossils buried in tropical regions but the difficulty of digging through the tropical forests to find them limits the number of fossils found.

</comment><comment><USER14> Anthropologists have known this for at least 50 years.

Props for raising awareness of the field, though.

<comment><USER15> Yes, some of the things mentioned as new ideas were discussed years ago. Like the idea that some primitive form of plant domestication may have been happening prior to the agricultural revolution of 9000-10000 years ago.

<comment><USER14> I hate to break your bubble, there, but the concept of an agricultural revolution was also disproved quite a while ago.

<comment><USER16> Gobekli tele is between 12000 - 9000 ac

<comment><USER14> That's fantastic for them, I guess. It doesn't mean it was unique. It might just be me, but the idea that ancient peoples were so dumb that figuring out how to grow some plants was a miraculous idea that only happened once in one specific part of the world . . . come on. The ethnocentrism with that idea is glaring.

<comment><USER17> As far I know, the classic knowledge was that agriculture raised nearly at same time from the fertile crescent & Egipt, China, Indus valley and central America.

I read about Gobekli tepe. It's a interesting ruins, not only because are very old. Also, shows a very advanced knowdlege about how sculpt stones. Take a look to the animal scupts on the stones. They are very detailed. They look really advanced for being too old.

Another interesting old ruins are :

\- Yonaguni Monument . The last time that this ruins was over the water was 9000 years ago!

\- Sumerged ruins of Gulf of Khambhat . Very old cities of Indus valley that are from 7000-9000 years. And if I remember correctly there was a urbanized zone big as new york itself!

\- Tiwanaku . Where we can found something like a mass produced stones with a really awesome quality. Look like these pre-incan culture discovered Ford's production chain and apply over standarized stones that can put like a gigant lego, and not need any kind of cement to stay together!

The real truth is that we don't know very well these ancient eras. We assume that our ancestors must be more stupid that ours. But this is false. They are equal capable that any actual person. We only, don't know how they did it, or when (exactly) they did something or how many times something was rediscovered.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> Note that the editor highlighted that this didn't mean that they had farms at the time, the editor identifies this finding more as "proto-agriculture" or before what could be considered farming.

Just to help those who might be confused

</comment><comment><USER19> Obligatory plug when discussing early/primitive human tech:

[https://primitivetechnology.wordpress.com/](https://primitivetechnology.wordpress.com/)

</comment><comment><USER20> For the actual research paper, look for [http://dx.doi.org/10.1038/nplants.2017.93](http://dx.doi.org/10.1038/nplants.2017.93) into sci hub.</comment>


Ask HN: Best data analysis blogs? - <AUTHOR>

I'm interested in data analysis and I'd love to learn more about it. What are some good blogs to pop into my RSS reader? I only have Paul Butler, the facebook intern who mapped peoples friendships onto a glove, so far. My goal here is to get inspired to do data analysis while also learning about it. Thanks in advance! <comment><USER2> <http://www.quora.com/What-are-the-best-blogs-about-data>

</comment><comment><USER3> Here are three data visualization blogs:

Information Aesthetics (<http://infosthetics.com>) Information is Beautiful (<http://www.informationisbeautiful.net>) VisualComplexity.com

</comment><comment><USER4> The OKTrends blog has some pretty great articles regarding trends taken from OK Cupid's dataset: <http://blog.okcupid.com/>

</comment><comment><USER5> <http://datamining.typepad.com/data_mining/></comment>