My Failed Attempt at Engineering Love - <AUTHOR> https://themission.co/looking-for-the-one-how-i-went-on-150-dates-in-4-months-bf43a095516c <comment><USER2> >"I became an online dating magician who knew how to optimize a profile — A/B testing pictures and message. If I changed my profile picture and got more "likes" as a result, that meant it was better. I was tracking data, which made it easy to see what performed best.

>This one worked, probably because it hides the bulging stomach and the balding head."

No, your A/B test doesn't mean it's 'better', unless you're counting only number of first dates.

But you keep talking about finding "The One".

So here's some unsolicited advice - you are optimising the wrong variable.

If you're really looking for "The One", instead optimise number of dates that remain interested in you after the first or later, not maximising the number of first dates.

And along this line - use a picture that is more representative of yourself? If you're worried about potential dates being turned off by the bald head and bulging stomach, won't they be turned off when they meet you in person?

At that point it becomes game theory, do you aim for more first bites with lower followup success, in hopes that your personality shines through?

Do you cast a wide net, as you're doing, and exert a LOT of effort with first dates hoping you don't risk losing a potential "the one"?

Or should you be yourself from the beginning, "happy to be a hippo" so to speak[1]. You'll probably get fewer first bites, but ones that get through have shown they don't care about your balding head and bulging stomach.

Though I haven't been on the dating scene in 16 yrs, so take my advice with a grain of salt.

[1] [https://www.quora.com/What-does-happy-as-a-hippo- mean](https://www.quora.com/What-does-happy-as-a-hippo-mean)

<comment><USER3> > If you're worried about potential dates being turned off by the bald head > and bulging stomach, won't they be turned off when they meet you in person?

Depends on what they are looking for, really. You would be surprised at how many PEOPLE, both men and women, are lonely and looking for companionship. And its very easy to swipe but meeting in person you tend to notice other attractive qualities.

I agree it is misleading and a little deceptive though. Personally, I don't do it, but I'm trying to explain how it may not be the worst thing in the world to do it.

<comment><USER2> I know what your saying, but unless I misinterpreted, the author was lamenting how most of his 150 first dates were a waste of his time.

so that's where he has to decide.

150 dates with potentially little bite, or maybe 10 (or less?) dates where his worries are almost guaranteed not to be an issue. Of course zero first dates is not good either.

Given his interest in experimenting like this, I'd be curious to see if he did a follow up using the above strategy.

<comment><USER3> Ah good point. My expectation is that (unfortunately) he would probably get 0 dates. The online dating world is MUCH too competitive, to the point of absurdity.

<comment><USER4> It's tinder, it's easy.

As you can see in his article, just ask her on a date and get her number. It takes about 3 messages.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment> vertex-four Ehh... the issue is mostly that online dating doesn't go very well for the vast, vast majority of people. On the other hand, I know plenty of not- particularly-attractive people who've met partners through all sorts of weird and whacky situations.

Fact of the matter is that finding potential partners, like finding anyone, is about constantly growing the network of people you interact with. I meet new people nearly every week through various communities I'm part of and organise. Many of them stay that way, just "part of my community", some of them become great friends, and very few become partners. You're unlikely to manage that while working 80 hours a week, going to the bar once or twice a week, and otherwise not being involved in much.

Also, speaking personally... the sort of person who thinks it's fun to spend their time automating personal interaction is not the sort of person I want to date.

<comment><USER5> >Also, speaking personally... the sort of person who thinks it's fun to spend their time automating personal interaction is not the sort of person I want to date.

forgive me for waxing poetical but i've thought about this a lot - since i have tinder and okcupid accounts - online dating is one of the most nihilistic enterprises to come out of the digital revolution. take one of the most personally rewarding and edifying experiences and completely formalize one of the most exciting parts of it (if not _the_ most). what becomes the point of your life???

i read a stupid platitude somewhere that you should do something that scares you every day and approaching people you're attracted to (not on the street you pua twats) is one of the few "scary" things still available to us as denizens of modernity (i'm not sailing over the ocean blue, summiting mt everest, hunting moby dick, etc.). why would you want to sidestep that.

<comment><USER6> >online dating is one of the most nihilistic enterprises

>approaching people you're attracted to (not on the street you pua twats) is one of the few "scary" things still available to us as denizens of modernity

Online dating is good for people who simply have NO other avenue to meet people. If you're not supposed to try to pick up people on the street, then where would you apply this advice? Work? I don't know about you, but I'm a software engineer, so there's no single women at my workplace. School? I graduated quite some time ago, and work now. Church? Like many technologists, I'm irreligious (and I wouldn't want to date a religious woman anyway; been there, done that). Extracurricular activities? Sure, but the number of single women at these things tends to be pretty small, so it's a LOT of effort for very low odds of success. Any many of my interests just don't have very many single women participating anyway.

The simple fact is, online dating offers a way for people to meet who otherwise simply wouldn't. This problem isn't new either; ever hear of "singles mixers"? Those were around _long_ before the WWW came about. Online dating just moves that kind of thing online, and gives you a way of screening people before taking your time to meet them in person so you can make sure you're at least a little compatible. The main problem I personally see with online dating is that there aren't enough people using it (esp. female, they're far more reluctant to use it and see it as a point of shame), and there's too many different competing services. Oh yeah, and all the liars too. But that's nothing new, men picking up women in bars have been lying about themselves forever too.

<comment><USER3> > Online dating is good for people who simply have NO other avenue to meet > people

Like everything, in moderation it works great. I'm a male software engineer and can relate to your feelings of not being able to meet single women naturally. But relying exclusively on online dating is kinda... uncreative. You mentioned bars. But also: coffee shops. Art shows. Music festivals. When used in conjunction, Online dating is great, because now you can invite the women you meet online to join you in the other fun activities going on in your life.

<comment><USER6> >But also: coffee shops.

I've spent plenty of time in coffee shops. I've had a number of first dates there too. I have _never_ seen anyone introduce themselves to someone in a coffee shop, unless it was obvious that they were planning to meet there. Instead, most people I see there are busy: they're either with a friend(s), or they're busy working on their computer. They're not there to get picked up. If I were a woman, I'd be annoyed if I couldn't go to a coffee shop and relax without a bunch of men hitting on me.

>Music festivals.

If you don't share the same taste in music, that's going to be a problem. The concerts I go to are filled with men. Besides, I've never been to a concert where people were walking around mingling and meeting each other; they were there to listen to the music, not socialize.

<comment><USER3> > If you don't share the same taste in music, that's going to be a problem. > The concerts I go to are filled with men. Besides, I've never been to a > concert where people were walking around mingling and meeting each other; > they were there to listen to the music, not socialize.

I don't disagree. It can be hard to find activities which are popular with both sexes. I don't really know what to tell you, except that, I'm sorry you didn't luck out in being interested in any of those activities. I would suggest trying to develop a taste for other activities, but I don't think its in my place to ask you to do anything :). I am after all a stranger on the internet.

> I've spent plenty of time in coffee shops. I've had a number of first dates > there too. I have never seen anyone introduce themselves to someone in a > coffee shop, unless it was obvious that they were planning to meet there. > Instead, most people I see there are busy: they're either with a friend(s), > or they're busy working on their computer. They're not there to get picked > up. If I were a woman, I'd be annoyed if I couldn't go to a coffee shop and > relax without a bunch of men hitting on me.

I agree here as well. If you read my other comment, you will see that most of my interactions are incidental, not forced. Its hard to explain, but you have to develop a certain social awareness and curiosity.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> I think he actually found the love of his life and hasn't realized it. Turns out, it's a Python script.

</comment><comment><USER8> 151st date is the charm.

This is a bit like living in NYC for both parties: there is so much volume that you can't get past the first minor disappointment.

I think the volume prevents you from focusing on one person to figure out what you want.

You might want to focus some kind of algo on the second part of the dating: selection.

Don't just go on your gut or how you felt after the date. You need multiple dates to figure that out.

<comment><USER5> NYC dating: water water everywhere but none that I'll drink more than a sip of in anticipation of finding a better glass. paradox of choice indeed.

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> Thinking about it some more, the scripted interactions didn't work because they seemed too much like begging, especially after the 2nd message, when a normal person would have simply stopped communication with a non-responder.

There was no mystery or enigmatic friction created in his scripted messages. Nothing to raise the "buying temperature" or whatever you want to call it.

Also a head and shoulders shot with no context is as bland as can be. At least 1 shot should have been with an outside interest, like, with your dog (if you have one) or with friends showing you enjoying yourself. By adding such photos, I am willing to guess his responses would have been better.

</comment><comment><USER10> Interesting article, but in the context of serious process and scientific methods, the rape statistics quoted in the article is the exact opposite. The "1 in 5 US women is estimated to be raped before age 25" comes from a single study where they did a voluntary survey in one US university campus. It reflecting of the set of students during that year on that campus that decided to answer that survey. The national average today could be 1 in 5, it could be much more or much less.

<comment><USER11> Not entirely true, from what I understand. The statistic has been replicated in polls and surveys across various college campuses. The OP's representation, and yours, is a little clunky but makes rational sense to me.

His quote is "1 in 5 US women are estimated to be raped before the age of 25". This statistic is based on surveys conducted by the graduates of various colleges and universities. My understanding of the results are: of all the responding women, roughly 20% claim to have been raped. If the sample of women attending University and/or responding is representative of the population as a whole, then the original claim makes sense.

More to the point, refuting the single study, voluntary survey at one US university campus.

Washington Post-Kaiser Family Foundation Poll. "the poll surveyed a random national sample of 1,053 women and men ages 17 to 26 who were undergraduates at a four-year college — living on campus or nearby — or had been at some point since 2011. They attended more than 500 colleges and universities, public and private, large and small, elite and obscure, located in every state and the District of Columbia." [...] "5 percent of men and 20 percent of women said they had been sexually assaulted in college" [http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/local/2015/06/12/1-in-5-wom...](http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/local/2015/06/12/1-in-5-women- say-they-were-violated/)

Campus Climate Survey Validation Study " Surveys were completed by more than 23,000 undergraduate students (approximately 15,000 females and 8,000 males). The average response rate across all nine schools was 54% for females and 40% for males" [https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/ccsvsftr.pdf](https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/ccsvsftr.pdf)

<comment><USER10> The Campus Climate Survey Validation Study has on page 18 a summery of the result for undergraduate females during 2014-2015 in the 9 schools:

Estimated sexual assault: Averaged 10.3%, and ranged from 4.2% at School 2 to 20.0% at School 1.

Estimated sexual battery: Average 5.6% , and ranged from 1.7% at School 2 to 13.2% at School 1.

Estimated rape: Average 4.1%, and ranged from 2.2% at School 9 to 7.9% at School 5.

Across the nine participating schools, 4.3% of sexual battery incidents and 12.5% of rape incidents were reported by the victim to any official.

So according to it, the average rape on those 9 schools were 4.1%, but only 0.5% were reported. If we accept those numbers (54% response rate, common location and (likely) background, generational age), we have that out of 150 women that this article talk about, 6 women is estimated to have been raped, in contrast to the initial assertion of 30. The "1 in 5" study was a good signal that further studies was needed. The CCSVS can be seen as a good start of such further studies. The range difference of 400% between school 9 and 5 do say that we need to be careful and bigger studies/meta studies is needed to remove outlines and get averages and median value. In the mean time I suggest the nice and round number 5%, or if the assume that the above numbers are exclusive (uncertain if thats true), 20% that a undergraduate will be victim of some form of sexual misconduct.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> My stepdaughter went on 100 dates while in her teens (like, while aged 16-18), to get to know a variety of people (clean, usually double dates). She married ~#72 and they're doing very well, like, idyllic, after some years (she has blogs about raising their children). Anyway, while still a teen, she had an ebook published about why those 100 dates were a good idea, with 365 ideas for free or inexpensive dates:

[https://deseretbook.com/p/date-day-365-ideas-lds-teens- teen-...](https://deseretbook.com/p/date-day-365-ideas-lds-teens-teen-charly- troff-85440?ref=product-image)

~$3. For what it may be worth from a relative. (You have to install the publisher's free ebook app, to read it though.)

(edit: I found eHarmony's approach, though not really their IT department, to work really well for me.)

<comment><USER12> A correction/ps, too late to edit: there is also apparently a kindle edition of the $3 "365 date ideas", so no niche app needed (though that's a nice app too, i have it):

[https://www.amazon.com/Date-Day-Ideas-Teens-Teen- ebook/dp/B0...](https://www.amazon.com/Date-Day-Ideas-Teens-Teen- ebook/dp/B008X9NZPW/ref=sr_1_1/134-9201808-3905701?ie=UTF8&qid=1498779281&sr=8-1&keywords=charly+troff)

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> From my friend group there are two types of individuals:

1\. Individuals who date many people, breaking up if they find something non- optimal. These include minor things like, not cleaning up on occasion, or not liking something you do.

2\. Someone who dates very few (1-3) individuals, sticking with them until a serious, fatal flaw appears, like being racist or physically harming others, etc.

If you define a successful dater as someone who has both longevity and quality in a single relationship then Group 2 has far more success in their relationships, in my experience.

<comment><USER14> Group 1 is mostly women and group 2 is mostly men.

At least in my experience.

<comment><USER15> Unless the majority of people you know are gay, that isn't possible.

For each hetero man you know following strategy 2, by definition, there is a corresponding woman (his partner).

And vice versa with the women who are using strategy 1.

<comment><USER16> Not true. It's perfectly possible you have a scenario where for example the top 10% of men date 100s of women, the bottom 50% date 3 or fewer women and women have a much more even distribution and date an average much higher than 3. These numbers are just an example but in reality I think something a bit like this situation does actually exist.

<comment><USER15> Sorry, forgot about this post. It seems you are likely right... (my brain is feeling a bit foggy on this one right now). I can see what sort of asymmetric distribution you are talking about. This must have been studied at some point -- it would be interesting to see some hard numbers.

Anyways, thanks for the correction.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> > I'm a fat, bald, short guy whose only quality is that he isn't an ax > murderer... But I'm bad at small talk, and I jump too fast to intellectual > conversations, making it awkward.

None of the engineering addressed root causes. Solve the confidence first, and then hack your way to a better physique, and maybe pick up some interests that are universal and easy to chat about.

<comment><USER18> >> _...isn 't an ax murderer..._

> _...hack your way to a better physique..._

Got it. Buying an axe ASAP... ~

</comment></comment><comment><USER19> This reminds me of a very humorous high frequency dating story [https://web.archive.org/web/20170325010439/http://robrhineha...](https://web.archive.org/web/20170325010439/http://robrhinehart.com/?p=1005)

(previously discussed here: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6773841](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6773841))

</comment><comment><USER20> The attempt seems to lack any attempt to recognise the one or reflect what it is that he looks for in a girl. Whether the first meeting is fun and engaging and whether you two can be together long term are very different things.

I also think that sending three messages in three days despite being ignored selects shared traits in the group. I mean, he said he is shy but acted super active sociable and needy online. So he might be selecting girls who look for needy dude or want dude who is highly sociable. Instead, shy introverted dude who need excell to figure out inappropriate thing to say appeared. That can't be match.

</comment><comment><USER21> _I'm a fat, bald, short guy whose only quality is that he isn't an ax murderer._

Cart before the horse. Also, smiley faces are kinda creepy in your first message.

</comment><comment><USER22> Opens with the secretary problem and shows no evidence of actually following the algorithm.

<comment><USER23> I'm guessing because the secretary problem doesn't have this twist:

>Dating is like enterprise sales. When your customer goes for a competing, more compelling product, you're never told and you don't get any feedback.

</comment></comment><comment><USER24> Here in Paris, many people in their thirties are single like me, and many are on dating sites. I had a lot of dates on a french site called adoptecunmec unlike Tinder. After manual experiences, I started a script which notified me when new girls registered on the website, so I could message them before their inbox would be full. A lot of them were closing their account because of the insane number of lame messages.

I didn't finish this script because I decided to stop all these dating sites and focused on street drag. After work, I visit Paris (which I still don't know well) and talk to girls, as many as I can.

It's successful. I don't have this disapppointment on dates like you have with online dating, people don't cheat with their pictures. Of course, you take rakes, you get phone numbers and girls won't respond to you, but at least they won't next you as fast as online dating people do. Some figures: I would go out for 2 hours and get 2-3 phone numbers, thanks to weeks of practice.

Please stop online dating and get out, you'll get a pleasant time and this will be much less time-consuming.

PS:

\- advices on street drag [https://www.reddit.com/r/seduction/top/](https://www.reddit.com/r/seduction/top/)

\- this youtube guy helped me a lot [https://youtu.be/DTDrnasfg_g?t=330](https://youtu.be/DTDrnasfg_g?t=330)

</comment><comment><USER25> Somewhere out there is a girl spamming the hell out of online dating services, looking for this dude. Let's hope when their bots meet, they're programmed to exchange numbers.

<comment><USER26> That would be the most romantic story IMO.

<comment><USER27> Truly, the romantic comedy for the late 2010s.

Actually, could be a nice quirky film - and profitable too. Romcoms are cheap to shoot. We're past peak American-romantic-comedy (I think) so the whole "ugh, not _another_ one" factor might be actually pretty low in 2017. So yeah, could be pretty nice.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER28> Not a bad strategy even if it didn't work, dating is often purely a numbers game.

Meet as many people as possible, be as social as possible, create as many opportunities to meet new people as possible.

Also if you're a single male and you want to meet a female partner, I'd recommend moving away from the west coast. The south and midwest have far more women, and a generally friendlier culture which can make the entire meeting/dating process a bit easier.

<comment><USER6> The women in the South are generally far more religious and conservative. West-coast men might not be too interested in that stuff.

The "friendlier culture" of the South thing is a myth. They're not that friendly to people who don't fit their preferred mold.

Source: grew up in the South. There's a reason so many young people move out of the South as soon as they can.

<comment><USER3> > The "friendlier culture" of the South thing is a myth. They're not that > friendly to people who don't fit their preferred mold.

Heh... Ain't that the truth.

Completely anecdotally, I got a LOT more Tinder matches when I was in the West/East Coast than in my home state of Texas (I'm a Nonwhite Male).

<comment><USER18> Having lived in the South long enough to mildly dislike it, I wouldn't say that Southerners are _friendly_. They are _polite_ , and only when someone whose opinion they may care about is around. Midwesterners are more apt to be friendly, but with far less concern for politeness.

Southern conversation:

      A:  You know, B, we have been friends for a long time.
      A:  I think you ought to know: I'm homosexual.
      B:  Oh, bless your heart.  Thank you for telling me.
      B:  I'm gonna pray for you, A.
      B:  [never speaks to A again]

Midwest conversation:

      A:  You know, B, we have been friends for a long time.
      A:  I think you ought to know: I'm homosexual.
      B:  No duh.  When was the last time you looked at yourself?
      B:  Why do you think the rest of us call you "Mothball"?
      B:  Stays in the closet, and also stinks.
      B:  Guess we'll have to come up with something else now.
      A:  You're a great friend, Farticus.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER29> Any automated process that depends on human interaction is going to fail, whether it is seeking a job, finding a date.

The big flag here is, after 20 dates, defeat begets defeat. You can't automate success.

Plus, the profile picture sounds a bit like a lie. Anyone who's done online dating is familiar with the angels needed to hide body-type. Of course, no one is going to be happy to see someone who doesn't look like what the photo envisioned.

</comment><comment><USER30> "150 dates without success" \--> what happens when engineering meets the red pilled world of dating.

<comment><USER31> Seems like the problem was that his bot didn't filter very well and ended up matching him with tons of people that he had to instantly reject on the date.

I wonder if there is a mentality problem here too. He had invested so little into each date that there was little incentive to put in the effort to pierce the surface and look for common interests.

Going on 150 dates and not finding a single match tells me that you are shooting outside of your league. Your perfect match could do better than you, and is already taken anyway.

<comment><USER28> > Going on 150 dates and not finding a single match tells me that you are > shooting outside of your league.

Total nonsense attitude. You should never feel "outside of your league" for many reasons, particularly since you never know who you are compatible with. Don't be afraid to aim high in a partner.

<comment><USER31> The flipside is "be brave enough to be alone forever".

If you set impossibly high standards you are just wasting everybody's time.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER32> I find this creepy and weird. How could you possibly tell the love of your life (if and when you found that person) that they were nothing more than a toy in your little data harvesting exercise.

<comment><USER32> Also -- here is a good moral thermometer:

"PS: I will not open-source the code since it could be used to hurt people, but I might share it if you ask nicely."

If you write code for fun (not commercially owned IP), and you are not willing to share it because 'it could hurt people', you might want to re-evaluate if you should write it in the first place.

<comment><USER6> Personally I think his approach here was really awful, but for this particular thing you could argue that the code is OK if used by one person, or a very tiny number of people, but if it were used by many people it'd be a big problem. There's a lot of things like that.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER33> Wow, the data point about rape is an interesting tangent. I guess with people like 45 and all the stories from Silicon Valley, it's not that surprising. But sad none the less.

Maybe we can follow the OP's lead and use technology to automate data collection around this and come up with better solutions.

</comment><comment><USER34> Maybe learn how to treat another human like a human and step out of his own head for a second, might work better than 'engineering' love

<comment> swagasaurus-rex Platitudes won't teach somebody how to be more dateable.

</comment></comment><comment><USER35> Reading this reminded me of a google doodle,

[http://www.doodlehistory.com/2012/valentine-s-day-2012-on- fe...](http://www.doodlehistory.com/2012/valentine-s-day-2012-on- feb-14-2012-1420/)

</comment><comment><USER36> "how did you meet that guy?" -Ow, he had a bot on tinder and I responded to it.

Not the most romantic guy, despite his date ideas. Approach a person in public with a tape recorder, so you can just wind it back and go to the next woman.

</comment><comment><USER37> There was this a few years ago

[https://www.wired.com/2014/01/how-to-hack- okcupid/](https://www.wired.com/2014/01/how-to-hack-okcupid/)

</comment><comment><USER38> Sometimes we get so wrapped up in could, that we don't spend the time to ask if we should.

</comment><comment><USER39> Slight tangent, but how do you script interaction with a mobile app like Tinder?

For the web, you use a headless browser. But what about automating interaction with mobile?

<comment><USER14> People have reverse engineered the API, there are libraries for it on github.

<comment><USER40> Bingo. Use wireshark to identify the protocol and if it is http then use mitmproxy.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER41> From solely reading the headline I had no idea how far the author took this. Kudos for this very interesting piece of "research"!

I am surprised by the horrible outcome, though, since meeting 150 women is quit a lot. I'd have expected to see at least a short-term relationship coming out of this. It's almost like those generic (but in no way bad) messages exclusively attract the "wrong" women.

<comment><USER30> 150 women seems like a lot... but not if you have a persona that turns most women off.

Women are giving him a chance. He is simply not meeting their expectations of being fun / exciting / confident / funny / whatever.

</comment></comment><comment><USER42> Step 1, for success, is moving away from the Bay Area.

<comment><USER28> > Step 1, for success, is moving away from the west coast

FTFY.

I'm not joking either, for straight single men they will certainly have better odds in the midwest or south. Demographics plus minor cultural differences matter.

<comment><USER3> Not true. LA definitely has a lot of the kind of women that nerdy engineers like: career focused, successful, intelligent etc.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER43> Cant't read the story, submitted link is redirecting to medium.com.

</comment><comment><USER44> This is a depressing read. Here we have a "startup founder" (=relatively wealthy), who isn't that bad-looking, using a complicated script to massively increase his opportunities and he still can't get a date. Is there even hope for the rest of us?

<comment><USER45> Haha well he got plenty of dates (150 of them), he just never found that special someone.

TBH I think his problem was that he didn't quality his leads well enough.

</comment></comment><comment><USER46> It's like the programmer who applies to 150 jobs. The programmer cannot do the research on all 150 so the interviews lack the personal connection. Far better to focus on the 10 you really want do the research and put in the effort to really wow the interviewer.

<comment><USER47> > Far better to focus on the 10 you really want do the research and put in the > effort to really wow the interviewer.

Sounds like you haven't been on online dating before.

<comment><USER46> I have and been successful but maybe things have changed in the last 10 years.

You never meet someone right away, first you instant message on the platform. At some point you move into a chat program offsite and in a month you started talking on the phone. 6 months later you meet. Over that half year you develop a friendship when you meet you have tons to talk about. The buildup adds excitement and unless you look nothing like your picture your looks are already accepted and seeing you in person increases that attraction.

If you try to rush the process you better have outstanding physical qualities or great style or money or luck because every relationship needs a base. You are better off going to a local minecraft meetup. Everyone attending will feel they have someone in common and you can build off of that.

Start by building a low risk relationship with daily contact points. That will create the base for a successful friendship which is what you need for a successful relationship.

<comment><USER47> Things have changed drastically since you've been on there. If you flounder for more than 2 days you're likely just to get dropped or they'll move on.

Usually I ask the woman out for drinks after 2-4 round trips on messages.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER48> The original link seems to be redirecting to medium.com.

This is the correct link, if OP or admin can fix it [https://medium.com/the- mission/looking-for-the-one-how-i-wen...](https://medium.com/the- mission/looking-for-the-one-how-i-went-on-150-dates-in-4-months-bf43a095516c)

</comment><comment><USER49> Problem number one, that girl in the opening picture has a ring on her left hand. Perhaps try again with single girls?

<comment><USER50> Is it unethical to go out with someone that wants out of their marriage? A divorce is costly, takes a lot of time, and the relationship is usually dead long before the papers are finalized.

If there's trickery involved, then sure. But it's not quite so clear-cut. Where it gets murky is if you don't have a job, you're stuck -- it's very difficult to leave your marriage without at least attempting to find someone else before a divorce. But the alternative is to be a slave to your partner's whims, if the marriage is sufficiently toxic and unsalvageable.

<comment><USER51> Even in that case, why wear the ring in the picture? Edit: On second look, that picture looks to be a stock photo, not one of the dates the author went on.

<comment><USER52> Is nobody wearing rings just for fun?

<comment><USER53> I've certainly met people who wear rings specifically to suggest they're unavailable, or at least cut down on the number of propositions.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER54> He was solving a wrong problem using a wrong set of tools. He clearly stated that what he wanted was a walking womb however what he offered in his profile was something else. No engineering optimization would make someone who wants a steak happy in a place offering omakase.

</comment><comment><USER55> This is like the reverse version of Ashley Madison fembots.

[http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/ashley-madison- admits-...](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/ashley-madison-admits- tricking-men-with-fake-fembots/)

</comment><comment><USER56> That reminded me of my wife's friend who wrote a book[1] about her experience of outsourcing dating. Being a woman she has the reverse problem of too many suitors. She outsourced the vetting process and initial conversation to the hired assistants (yes, plural), with mixed success.

In my experience any kind of scenario where friction is removed (never have been on tinder, but I would imagine it is even more pronounced than a crowded bar) leads to that kind of imbalance. One of tradeoffs that might work for some males is to put themselves into a kind of situations that puts them next to females for a prolonged amount of time. School, work, and neighbours are classic, but that also includes dance schools, sports, and frequent parties with mutual friends. Women are much more likely to spend time with you if they feel like they already know you a bit.

[1] [http://datingvandalized.com/](http://datingvandalized.com/)

</comment><comment><USER57> How a Math Genius Hacked OkCupid to Find True Love (wired.com)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7099855](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7099855)

</comment><comment><USER9> I think that he needs to improve his conversation skills first.

</comment><comment><USER58> Modern dating is a mystery to me. What a laborious and painful way to sift through people when the most likable people come into your life when you least expect it.

<comment><USER28> > when the most likable people come into your life when you least expect it.

There is often truth to that, but you have to put yourself into scenarios where that is more likely to happen. Be social, meet as many people as possible, etc.

<comment><USER59> It's doubly difficult for loners and introverts who do not necessarily enjoy meeting as many people as possible, yet would like a partner to share their lives with.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER60> I love that down in the comments he was asked if any of those 150 dates resulted in him getting laid, and his response was, "44.7%"

</comment><comment><USER61> It seems like he might have been better off working on his social skills than his date generating machine.

</comment><comment><USER62> Looks like the article has now been deleted - it also disappeared from google amp cache.

</comment><comment><USER63> if author is reading this - unsolicited advice: hit the gym, lose the gut. As for the balding head - shave it! Surprising numbers of females dig it.

And kudos for charity donation! Good luck

</comment><comment><USER64> So, when will pydate be available on github?

</comment><comment><USER65> This is not creepy at all.

/s

</comment><comment><USER66> Successful attempt at engineering cringe.

</comment><comment><USER67> how did he interact with mobile tinder ?

</comment><comment><USER68> Go to south America.latin women are amazing. Feminine smile a lot good looking and full of flirt. Ofc you need to speak Spanish but it's easy to learn! 8)

<comment><USER59> That's an awful stereotype. Also, there is no "South America"; there are countries in South America, each with a different culture and dating strategies, some more traditional and conservative, some less. If you try dating in a conservative South American country (or city, because yes, it varies from city to city!), you'll find dating extremely difficult. Source: I'm from a country in South America.</comment></comment>


Show HN: Remove the blur from blurry photos - Blurity - <AUTHOR>

Just wanted to show off my side project, Blurity.  It removes blur from blurry photos.
If this sounds familiar, it might be one of two things: either that cool Adobe demo last fall that did something similar, or my post a year ago about an earlier version of Blurity (before I pivoted from a web app to a PC app).
Anyhow, check out some of what it can do at:
https://www.blurity.com/features
Not entirely certain about the right market yet.  Ideas appreciated! Thanks! <comment><USER2> Impressive. Markets: law enforcement, sports photography, any consumer (so long as it could integrate into a Picasa or iPhoto).

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> Clickable:

<https://www.blurity.com/features>

</comment><comment><USER3> I like the blurry comparison chart.

<comment><AUTHOR> Ah, I was wondering if anybody would notice that. :)</comment></comment>


Matthew Keys released from prison after two years - <AUTHOR> https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/03/matthew-keys-now-freed-from-prison-is-ready-to-get-back-to-journalism/ <comment><AUTHOR> For some background on Key's case check this timeline: [https://newslines.org/matthew-keys/](https://newslines.org/matthew-keys/)</comment>


Unexpected data from the Large Hadron Collider suggest a new type of matter - <AUTHOR> http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2012/lead-proton-collisions-at-large-hadron-collider-yield-surprising-results-1127.html

<comment><USER2> Even though the MIT News Office subtitled the article with the phrase "new type of matter," could we please change the HN title to "new phase of matter"?

Perhaps this is an Americanism, but a "new type of matter" suggests to me that we've found a new family of fundamental particles besides the quarks, the leptons, and the gauge bosons.

What the article talks about is quite clearly a phase of matter called "color- glass condensate".

</comment><comment><USER3> Please post the URL of the _original_ article: [http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2012/lead-proton-collisions- at...](http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2012/lead-proton-collisions-at-large- hadron-collider-yield-surprising-results-1127.html)

</comment><comment><USER4> So this _color-glass condensate_ is a very-high-energy type of matter. It goes on the list with:

      Solid
      Liquid
      Gas
      Plasma
      Glass
      Crystal
      Superfluid
      Supersolid
      Superglass
      Dark

<comment><USER5> Since when is glass (I assume we mean soda-lime glass) a separate phase of matter?

My impression was that it was a solid, and that the myth that it's a highly viscous liquid was based off of incorrect analysis of stained glass windows, etc. that were more likely explained by imperfections in the production process.

<comment><USER6> "Phases" are poorly defined. They exist wherever there's a statistical mechanics reason to define them, and they make sense only within the limits of the approximations on which they are based. Glass is "solid" to a mechanical engineer (in most regimes), but it's not a crystal and doesn't behave like one to a solid state physicist. Likewise "plasma" is a great tool to describe a fluorescent light bulb or lightning bolt, but not so much a white dwarf. Even stuff you think you understand, like "liquid and gas are clearly different" turns out to be wrong (<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercritical_fluid>).

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Here's the pre-print: <http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/1210.5482></comment>


Firebase Database as back end for your Android/iOS app - <AUTHOR> http://iosapptemplates.com/blog/mobile-programming/firebase-database-backend-ios-app <comment><USER2> Take a look at Cloud Firestore.

The author talks a lot about scalability but Google recently posted [0] that Cloud Firestore is similar to Firebase Realtime DB and more scalable.

[0] [https://firebase.google.com/docs/database/rtdb-vs- firestore](https://firebase.google.com/docs/database/rtdb-vs-firestore)

"Cloud Firestore is Firebase's new flagship database for mobile app development. It improves on the successes of the Realtime Database with a new, more intuitive data model. Cloud Firestore also features richer, faster queries and scales better than the Realtime Database."</comment>


Journalists need to learn what a 'hacker' really is - <AUTHOR> http://www.geek-juice.net/2010/12/journalists-need-to-learn-what-hacker.html

<comment><USER2> FW:FW:FW:FW:RE:RE

In all seriousness, however, this is something the geek/hacker community has been harping on for decades, and something that nobody else gives a rat's ass about. The MSM will continue to call people who use LOIC or exploit password reset features "hackers", because 99.9% of their audience won't know the difference.

If they ask you directly, correct them. Otherwise, just let them do their thing. There's absolutely nothing to gain by insisting that ignorant people use the correct terminology.

<comment><USER3> Agreed. A solution requires one of two things to happen: every hacker to start using a new term, or every hacker to 'reclaim' the term.

Reclamation is out for two reasons, one, we have a really poor narrative, and two, try organizing hackers.

Using a new term is out because technically we're right and in the hacker mindset logos trumps all other forms of rhetoric, and two, try organizing hackers.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Hackers need to understand that nobody cares about their attachment to this word. The English language has moved on.

<comment><USER5> Maybe, but the fact that someone can be prosecuted for "hacking" by guessing someone's password means that the misconception has real negative consequences.

<comment><USER4> Unauthorized access to computer systems is illegal on it's own and not because of any conflation with the word "hacker".

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> I feel that actual "hackers" need to realize that a new name is necessary if they want to disassociate themselves from this depiction. It's like the "begs the question" people (<http://begthequestion.info/>) -- it's simply unfeasible to change such a commonly (if unintentionally) misused interpretation.

Edit: Feel free to downvote me, but please let me know why: I'm still new here, and I was trying to be constructive.

<comment><USER7> I agree and I'd also like to hear some of you downvoters speaking up.

<comment><AUTHOR> It looks like someone just downvoted everybody... Some people are jerks.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Calling a script-kiddie who pushes the start button on a DDoS program a "hacker" is like calling someone who turns on a toaster a "chef".

<comment><USER9> And so journalists need to learn the term, "script kiddie"

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> This article seems to be more concerned about "hacker" vs "script kiddie" than "hacker" vs "cracker" which most comments here seem to be focused on.

But on that topic I'm actually less pessimistic about the use of "Hacker" than I used to be. Self-described hackers are I think more prominent and with movements like hackerspaces which attract crafty & creative types there's leakage into the non-technical social groups as well.

Even a company like Facebook uses the term <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1990014> even if it leads to misunderstanding.

</comment><comment><USER11> I wonder if any journalist has ever wandered to HN when googling for the "hacker" term and got confused about the startup-related discussion.

</comment><comment><USER12> In the "I can't say what it is, but I can point to one" sense, hackers to me are the ones who show you lines of code they've written for some app, as if to say "This is the magic bit. Look what I've got this language to do!"

They're the bright-eyed people who show you how they managed to make a program do something that nobody else with access to the same program can do. They come from the same school as people who build Antikythera Mechanism emulators and Babbage Difference Engines out of Lego.

That's a hacker, to me: someone who can make something do cool things. If it makes them money as well, that's just the icing on a very big cake.

</comment><comment><USER13> The word hacker _does_ mean "people who break into computers" because that is what the vast majority of the people who use the word mean when they say it.

It has _two_ archaic uses - the older one is well known to this community and the second one, also falling by the way side, is someone who has a good understanding of computer security and uses it to break into computers.

This boat has sailed. And what is more it sailed a long time ago.

</comment><comment><USER14> I get so sick and tired of people assuming that hacker == cracker or script kiddie.

But I don't see much of a solution, except saying "good hacker" and "bad hacker". Non-hackers just don't get it.

</comment><comment><USER15> [http://www.phrack.org/issues.html?issue=65&id=2](http://www.phrack.org/issues.html?issue=65&id=2)

Ctrl-F: "Hacking boxes"

<comment><AUTHOR> That was an interesting read...

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> ironically, there are also plenty of people on HN that also need to learn what a "hacker" is

<comment><USER17> This. I think most people "get it" by now, but I roll my eyes every time someone tries to say that those who exploit software or break into computers are "crackers". No, they aren't.

<comment><USER16> yes. seems like everyone is co-opting the definition based on what they WANT it to mean, and thus being intolerant of the fact that everyone has their own pre/mis-conceived notion of "hacker". hence, knots in the panties from the "that's not a knife; this is a knife" crowd.

(apologies for my poor aussie accent)</comment></comment></comment>


Cheap Willl Be Smart. Expensive Will Be Dumb. - <AUTHOR> http://www.avc.com/a_vc/2011/12/cheap-willl-be-smart-expensive-will-be-dumb.html

<comment><USER2> The "bridges" mentioned are potentially one of the most interesting developments of the next few years. We've seen a huge, huge explosion of Arduino projects, but soon enough it'll be commoditized and simplified for the layperson as in the Twine box(1). However, I'm particularly excited by CSR's BLE (Bluetooth low energy) chips (2), a SoC promising 3 years battery life on a coin-cell for wireless peripherals, which could potentially create an entire universe of environmental sensing motes, similar to Nike+'s shoe-sensor. Unfortunately CSR is not particularly hacker-friendly, requiring a nearly 10k developer seat (3) to develop for the otherwise cheap chips.

[1] [http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/supermechanical/twine- li...](http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/supermechanical/twine-listen-to- your-world-talk-to-the-internet)

[2] <http://www.csr.com/products/45/csr-energy>

[3] <http://forum.sparkfun.com/viewtopic.php?t=16425>

</comment><comment><USER3> The technical culmination of this vision would be that all of our expensive devices (i.e. refrigerators, air conditioners, heaters) will have simple APIs that can be controlled by any administration tool on any device.

For instance, our heating/air conditioning systems can have a standardized API that really only has the following functions, available (with some simple authentication) over any wifi connection:

1\. Turn on 2\. Turn off

Then an administration tool (probably on the cloud) can handle all the daily/weekly/monthly automation, provide a clean and easy to use interface, with all the complicated and special features we would like to see. We could change and upgrade our administration tools as we see fit. We would access them with our smartphones, home PCs, or for old schoolers, the wall mounted device.

<comment><USER4> Sigh. I have a simple device that does that already. It's called a thermostat.

Edit: I have the simple device, not a device that can be controlled from anywhere. But that's not a problem I have or need to have solved.

<comment><USER3> > But that's not a problem I have or need to have solved.

Sometimes it's hard to be aware of problems that exist. The fact that we have to interact with a thermostat on a regular basis is a problem. To save energy and reduce the need for us to remember to interact with the device, it might be nice for software to figure out when we leave or enter our homes (perhaps via GPS on our phones, or by some other detection mechanism) and control the device automatically. I am almost positive that your thermostat doesn't do this.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> The airplay rollout has not been executed well.

Overall, it is successful of course. It's a killer feature and highly popular among consumers.

I believe it has been mismanaged for the following reasons.

First, rollout has been incredibly slow and there is still a major dearth of airplay enabled devices. This is not due to limitations of technology. Airplay comes from a company called BridgeCo, not Apple. BridgeCo did not do a good job of building OEM relations and following through to see Airplay implementations. This is not BidgeCo's fault, entirely. The BridgeCo team was a small (>6) executive staff in the states with an engineering team in India. While I do not know the full extent of Apple's imposed limitations, I know they were a factor. Still, BridgeCo had an opportunity to build a robust ecosystem- instead they were focused on selling SDK's for >$20k and not the front end UX. I do not think they were a Silicon Valley company culturally.

Apple has not taken a lead on pushing the technology as a standard at all. For the first year after Airplay's rollout, the only A/V receivers with airplay capabilities were super high-end Denons with a pricepoint near $1k. Not consumer. For the record, I haven't checked recently, this could still be the case. The market for 3rd party all-in-one speakers, the obvious destination for airplay technology, also developed very slowly.

Fortunately, apple sells a $99 airplay antenna called the Apple TV which can plug into just about any home theater system. Within the last few months though, Apple has been pushing updates to ATV's which has _completely destroyed the airpay experience_ by locking down the format. I can no longer play downloaded video media on my non-jailbroken apple tv. Apple wants me to purchase streaming media from the Apple TV market- I don't care. I want to play the downloaded media on my laptop on my HDTV. Crazy, I know. Apple says no.

And this, of course, is the biggest fail of the Airplay rollout. Airplay is not just audio- it's video. This feature has zero presence on 3rd party devices- possibly positioning for an Apple HDTV launch. Still, BridgeCo (now SMSC) should have pushed the tech on HDTV OEMs.

While interesting, and slightly sad, none of this matters since ultimately airplay is the standard and I will continue to watch its development and buy airplay devices since there are no alternatives due to there being no other company developing next-gen core computing user experiences.

<comment><USER6> isn't logitech's squeeze an alternative? see <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logitech_Media_Server> etc. i started hacking airplay to work with linux (rewrote the .net client in java), but gave up and bought the logitech hardware instead. it's open - the server is written in perl and runs perfectly on linux - interoperates with a bunch of stuff, and has been around for years, now.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> I thought he was going to say that cheap devices will be smart as in they will collect our data, etc (so they can monetize) and expensive devices will not (because they're expensive and come with the added advantage of privacy)

</comment><comment><USER8> The author does not seem to understand that with long upgrade cycle products, you want to include the _minimal_ number of new / improved features. Otherwise, I won't buy a new tv for 15 years and you'll make no money. But what is that? You say you have Plasma? LED? HD resolution? Better refresh rate? Gimmicky 3D that no one supports? Of course I'll buy a new one!

With cell phones and tablets, the expected lifetime is only 1-2 years anyway.

</comment><comment><USER9> Is the willl misspelling intentional?</comment>


Vice Media Web Traffic Plunges 17% in February, Sunk by Risky Strategy – Variety - <AUTHOR> http://variety.com/2016/digital/news/vice-media-traffic-plummets-underscoring-risky-web-strategy-1201733673/ <comment><USER2> I'm not sure Vice should be too concerned about a 17% drop in visits due to less link-bait.

1) they are doing very well as an alternative news source.

2) they are looking at the long-game. It takes a while to build credibility, and link-bait isn't going to be helpful

I have personally been amazed at what they have accomplished and how good compelling and punchy much of their content has been.

Shane is very smart. He's looked at the problems with the existing news media and has created a very compelling business for those looking for an alternative. At the same time, he hasn't (I don't believe) gone to far to as to put off the mainstream audience.</comment>


My Switch Away from Python - <AUTHOR> https://blog.jonaylor.xyz/my-switch-away-from-python/ <comment><USER2> Addressing some of the python (And C) critics:

> (just the base python image is > 1Gb

just looked at [https://hub.docker.com/_/python/?tab=tags](https://hub.docker.com/_/python/?tab=tags) shows container a small as ~26 MB

> C (God's programming language) itself just is incredibly unsafe and should > definitely not be used in any kind of production environment

That might be true, but a Rust based operating system is still years (if not decades) away. And I am pretty sure that writing unsafe Rust is as easy as it is to write unsafe C++.

While I appreciate the safety that Rust bring to the table. some of the critics feel lazy and disingenuous. These weak arguments do not help Rust

<comment><AUTHOR> > just looked at > [https://hub.docker.com/_/python/?tab=tags](https://hub.docker.com/_/python/?tab=tags) > shows container a small as ~26 MB

I believe that's just for the top layer. When I pull python:latest from dockerhub I get an image size of ~934MB.

> And I am pretty sure that writing unsafe Rust is as easy as it is to write > unsafe C++

You can write rust code that's as unsafe as C++ but I don't think it's as easy. It would require a lot of ugly, unidiomatic rust.</comment></comment>


Legal Threats from Broadway's 'Mockingbird' Sink Productions Around the Country - <AUTHOR> https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/28/theater/scott-rudin-mockingbird-broadway.html <comment><USER2> Not much to say here other than to echo some of the comments on the article:

> All the legal mumbo-jumbo aside, Rudin is the Grinch who is stealing the > spirit of Atticus Finch and all the good that it represents from the view of > the American people throughout this great land. And for what? A few dollars > and maybe an ego? Pathetic.

[https://nyti.ms/2VvAXG2#permid=30843298](https://nyti.ms/2VvAXG2#permid=30843298)

> Broadway NEEDS local theater productions to be successful, because that's > what spurs interest in live theater around the country and Broadway > ultimately benefits from that in all kinds of ways. This Scott Rudin sounds > like a fool, penny wise and pound foolish. I hope he loses his shirt on his > upcoming production.

[https://nyti.ms/2VvAXG2#permid=30843298](https://nyti.ms/2VvAXG2#permid=30843298)

Etc.</comment>


Intel Thread Building Blocks - <AUTHOR> https://www.threadingbuildingblocks.org <comment><USER2> I'd be interested in reading about real world experience with Intel TBB, and comparisons to Fastflow, which seems to be the nearest competitor.

<comment><USER3> From what I can see in the scientific community it seems like TBB does not get the attention it deserves.

In my opinion this comes from two simple facts: 1/ it's easier to throw a OpenMP #pragma on your loop after detecting the bottleneck with a profiler and 2/ you need to understand some TBB concepts like partitioning/splitting to implement your own algorithms. That is, TBB much more integrates into the language (modern C++ with lambdas etc.).

I won't tell you much about TBB's concurrent containers (maps, queues, vectors, ...), parallel algorithms (sort, scan, reduce, ...), or memory allocators. Those are explained in detail in the documentation. What I want to tell you about is TBB's Pipeline and FlowGraph feature, because of how powerful they are and how often they are simply ignored.

TBB's pipeline lets you build a pipeline of parallel or serial stages. On a high level it really is function composition, with the benefit of TBB deciding on the level of parallelism.

Here is an example of using TBB's pipeline to receive from the network, deserialize the blob and merge the results concurrently and potentially in parallel:

[https://github.com/daniel- j-h/DistributedSearch/blob/97224b1...](https://github.com/daniel- j-h/DistributedSearch/blob/97224b179fdc050dc219287616e8d3073e0e0a8c/Service.cc#L114)

You can find a quick explanation in this blog post:

[https://daniel-j-h.github.io/post/intuitive-monadic-bind- kle...](https://daniel-j-h.github.io/post/intuitive-monadic-bind-kleisli- composition/)

All you have to do is create your stages as functions: take input from stage n-1, process it and move ownership of the item over to stage n. Note: C++11's move semantics do not require you to pass raw pointers around or do the memory management yourself, as it is done in TBB's documentation!

As you can see, you only need the parallel_pipeline function (and make_filter<In, Out> for when the stages are not passed directly as lambdas):

[https://www.threadingbuildingblocks.org/docs/help/reference/...](https://www.threadingbuildingblocks.org/docs/help/reference/algorithms/parallel_pipeline_func.htm)

TBB's pipeline is really powerful for scenarios where a linear processing chain is needed, e.g. face detection with OpenCV where you have to 1/ grab a frame 2/ do some histogram corrections 3/ apply gaussian blur 4/ apply a face detection algorithm 5/ merge face's position into circular buffer 6/ do average over this buffer to estimate face position.

TBB's FlowGraph is for when your dependencies are more difficult to express as a simple pipeline. In the OpenCV example, maybe you need to buffer 5 frames for the face detection, maybe you need to join inputs from a camera and a video and react on when a face is found in a camera frame.

An example for expressing arbitrary dependencies is here:

[https://www.threadingbuildingblocks.org/docs/help/reference/...](https://www.threadingbuildingblocks.org/docs/help/reference/flow_graph/dependency_flow_graph_example.htm)

And an example for joining two nodes:

[https://www.threadingbuildingblocks.org/docs/help/reference/...](https://www.threadingbuildingblocks.org/docs/help/reference/flow_graph/message_flow_graph_example.htm)

This is the documentation's starting point for FlowGraph:

[https://www.threadingbuildingblocks.org/docs/help/index.htm#...](https://www.threadingbuildingblocks.org/docs/help/index.htm#reference/flow_graph.htm)

There is also a book about TBB out there and it contains some additional examples. But as it is with most of the documentation, those examples are not written in modern C++ (C++11/C++14) and the book is a bit dated.

<comment><USER4> That's a good answer. Here's one more example from the visual effects industry. This is for parallel evaluation of potentially complex dependency graphs in an interactive character engine.

[http://www.multithreadingandvfx.org/course_notes/Paralleleva...](http://www.multithreadingandvfx.org/course_notes/ParallelevaluationofcharacterrigsusingTBB.pdf)

<comment><USER5> We'd look at TBB at a previous gig for something similar. However we never ending up pursuing it for unrelated reasons.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


GitHub is down - <AUTHOR> https://github.com?2016-01-13 <comment><USER2> Too bad git is a distributed version control system, so you have your repositories locally and can continue work without remote access.

<comment><USER3> The specific problem today is that I have changes on my home PC that I finished and pushed up to Github last night, but now I can't get them at work this morning, because my home PC is behind a firewall. Also, my IP address is not static, so there's no guarantee I'll even be able to find it to make it a remote.

<comment><USER4> There are a wide variety of solutions to that, they all fall under the general name of "dynamic DNS". Most DNS providers have some sort of system for updating it even. I use cloudflare and there's a wide variety of scripts that can be used to automatically update CF DNS records. There's also some purpose- built services and many home NAT routers include features for this.

<comment><USER3> Honestly, I'm not really sure it's worth the effort. I'd have to spend time setting it up and baby sit it all year for the one time a year I am hurt by the problem for a couple of hours. Or I could just take the office out for expensive coffee and usually Github is back up again by the time we get back.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Obligatory Gogs plug: [https://gogs.io](https://gogs.io) It also has an awesome automatic mirror mode that can remain sync'd to a remkte repository. I don't care what your company does or how you run it, but please don't just rely on Github to host your code without a mirror somewhere. There are drawbacks to this incessant centralization.

<comment><USER6> Instead of Gogs it is now recommended to use Gitea, since it has more activity (~400 more commits last time I checked) and is community driven: [https://gitea.io/](https://gitea.io/)

According to their Blog: _Gitea is a community fork of the popular self-hosted Git service Gogs. We're a growing group of former Gogs users and contributors who found the single-maintainer management model of Gogs frustrating and thus decided to make an effort to build a more open and faster development model._ [https://blog.gitea.io/2016/12/welcome-to- gitea/](https://blog.gitea.io/2016/12/welcome-to-gitea/)

<comment><USER7> Is there any particular reason why this is recommended over Gogs?

<comment><USER8> Gitea is a community fork of the popular self-hosted Git service Gogs. We're a growing group of former Gogs users and contributors who found the single- maintainer management model of Gogs frustrating and thus decided to make an effort to build a more open and faster development model.

This happened not before trying to convince @Unknwon about giving write permissions to more people, among the community. He rightly considered Gogs his own creature and didn't want to let it grow outside of him, thus a fork was necessary in order to set that code effectively free.

source: [https://blog.gitea.io/2016/12/welcome-to- gitea/](https://blog.gitea.io/2016/12/welcome-to-gitea/)

<comment><USER7> ah my bad. I didn't realize that gogs was a single maintainer management model.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> how useful are these posts, really?

EDIT (20min after OP): someone should now submit "Github back up" thread

<comment><USER10> Very. We all need something to do while the internet dies.

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> [https://status.github.com/messages](https://status.github.com/messages)

</comment><comment><USER12> Shameless plug: I wrote a small service to monitor the status of many cloud services (github included) in one page [http://isserviceup.com](http://isserviceup.com)

<comment><USER13> next step: notify (email/slack/twitter/chrome extension/sms) subscribers when a service is back (or down?)

<comment><USER13> btw: login with github, unlucky today

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> GitHub's Twitter status post at the start of the outage:

[https://twitter.com/githubstatus/status/819940738452615168](https://twitter.com/githubstatus/status/819940738452615168)

Currently 442 retweets, 266 likes.

⋯

OK, they say it's back up:

[https://twitter.com/githubstatus/status/819947685503442945](https://twitter.com/githubstatus/status/819947685503442945)

</comment><comment><USER15> [https://twitter.com/githubstatus](https://twitter.com/githubstatus)

</comment><comment><USER16> Also - [https://status.github.com](https://status.github.com)

</comment><comment><USER17> There it is again: Friday the 13th. Well, it's time for home and side projects.

<comment><USER18> [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_cau...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation)

<comment><USER17> Yes, that's right, for sure. You just need enough people talking about something in a scary enough way to then become apprehensive about it yourself. Once that happens it's very easy not only to worry, but also to tie all minor negative events that could happen at any given time to the superstition.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> Good time for a coffee break!

<comment><USER20> Always ready for a GitHub down!

<comment><USER21> At least it's 5 pm in here.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> Take a breath. Read a book. Stop working, anyway it's Friday.

</comment><comment><USER22> This is just the end of the World...

</comment><comment><USER23> sigh

</comment><comment><USER24> Damn Russian hackers at it again.

<comment><USER25> Maybe someone posted something that offended the Chinese again.

[http://arstechnica.com/security/2015/04/ddos-attacks-that- cr...](http://arstechnica.com/security/2015/04/ddos-attacks-that-crippled- github-linked-to-great-firewall-of-china/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER26> It's working fine for me (Wisconsin, USA), did they fix it already?

</comment><comment><USER27> Screw you guys i'm going home

</comment><comment><USER11> Correlation does not imply causation!

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friday_the_13th](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friday_the_13th)</comment>


Ask HN: As fo 2018 – best framework for web forms entering data into SQL db? - <AUTHOR> This used to be the chat de-rigeur for HN, as a lot of early startups tried to figure out what was the best way to enter data into a database backend.  The chatter seems to have settled down - has the industry settled into some standardized framework?  Are there optimal, well maintained frameworks for a simple web forms/data collection type site? <comment><USER2> I think the question is a bit too broad because every form entry application has many dimensions you need to think about.

On the one hand if all you need is a simple form which gets shoved into a DB then every web language/framework makes that very easy. Usually you can do it with just the standard library. Forms are trivial to deal with in JavaScript, Java, Rails, Python, Perl, Go, etc.

On the back end if you're allergic to writing your own SQL queries you have a myriad of ORMs which will shove the data into your DB schema with minimal fuss. Most of those are also language specific.

On the other hand there are also many commercial solutions which you can use that let you completely avoid re-inventing the wheel, e.g. WuFoo, Google forms and the like.

On the gripping hand [0] in real life any serious business application which takes form input and shoves it into a DB winds up becoming a custom, hand crafted, artisanal, locally-sourced, specially grown mushroom. Why?

Well, is data entry on phones/tablets or not? Web forms cover both cases, but the UI solutions would probably be fairly different. What's your back end for dealing with the forms? What kind of business logic validation do you need? What are your security requirements (tamper proofing forms, storing input securely a-la GDPR)? How do you ensure your form inputs are not lost in case of failures (reliability, availability)? What's your form acknowledgment infrastructure (e.g. email, SMS, error feedback, etc). What's your DB security, availability, and performance look like?

You get the idea. The app you're trying to create is somewhere on the spectrum between a standard language supported libraries, all the way up to the how your bank deals with forms. The framework answer will be somewhere on that spectrum also.

I suggest you narrow down your question and I'm sure HN will point you in some good directions for your particular application.

[0] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gripping_Hand](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gripping_Hand)</comment>


DMCA (Copyright) Complaint to Google - <AUTHOR> https://www.chillingeffects.org/notices/10416081 <comment><USER2> Google's response: no action for 94 sites, mysql.com link is taken down:

[https://www.google.com/transparencyreport/removals/copyright...](https://www.google.com/transparencyreport/removals/copyright/requests/1877373/)

<comment><USER3> Does that mean that Oracle could press charges and/or sue for damages?

<comment><USER4> Probably not. The DMCA provides remedies for notices filed in bad faith, but it'd be hard to prove the music group was acting maliciously rather than stupidly.

E.g. "Even if EFF could show that Universal Music acted recklessly or with negligence—that wouldn't be enough."

[https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20121017/10355320733/why-i...](https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20121017/10355320733/why- its-almost-impossible-to-get-punished-bogus-dmca-takedown.shtml)

<comment><USER5> That sounds like an incentive for these companies to file deliberately nonsensical DMCA complaints, so that they'll always be able to disguise malice as incompetence.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Kind of sounds like some script hashed a "download" icon that's commonly used, and submitted a DMCA takedown claim. Or something along those lines.

It's time for some teeth to be added to the DMCA to prevent abuses like this, at a minimum there should be penalties for obviously fraudulent claims like this one.

edit: typo

<comment><USER7> Exactly. If I write a script to find and download open source files available via BitTorrent and my script has a flaw in it that causes me to accidentally download copyrighted material can I just say, "Oops! Faulty script."? Not a chance. I'll still get sued and told that I am responsible for what my script does even if it was unintentional. Why then do copyright holders get a pass for their allegedly faulty scripts where they falsely claim under penalty of perjury that they own something they don't actually own?

<comment><USER4> > Why then do copyright holders get a pass for their allegedly faulty scripts > where they falsely claim under penalty of perjury that they own something > they don't actually own

Among other reasons, because they don't make such a claim under penalty of perjury. The only thing 17 USC 512 actually requires to be "under penalty of perjury" is the statement that you are acting on behalf of a copyright holder. Nothing else in the notice, including the list of alleged infringements, is part of that statement.

<comment><USER7> You seem to be parroting the unproven legal arguments of one of the parties to a DMCA lawsuit. The statute is fairly clear in what is required:

 _(vi) A statement that the information in the notification is accurate, and under penalty of perjury, that the complaining party is authorized to act on behalf of the owner of an exclusive right that is allegedly infringed._

So if I send a DMCA takedown notice, I am stating under penalty of perjury that I have the right to submit the DMCA takedown for the property allegedly being infringed. It is quite clear. So if you send a DMCA takedown notice for something you don't have the right to - but claim you do - you have committed perjury.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> I'm sure it's been said before and I'm sure it'll be said again, but there need to be punative measures. Automatic submissions like this that waste service providers' and uploaders' time and while it might not be malicious, if you file legally binding papers on somebody (like a DMCA) you should have your costs covered if it turns out to be bull.

Even an automatic $100 fine per 10 URLs per domain would stop idiots crap like this, and fairly remunerate Google for going through it.

</comment><comment><USER9> If I'm reading this[1] correctly, these might be proxied DMCA submissions. Total Wipes Music Group sells software:

        Total Wipes Anti Piracy is a complete anti-piracy system that allows to you
        complete control to view, automate and remove illegal contents across
        cyberlocker, torrents, vk.com, filestube.com and illegal streaming sites
        whilst searching for your content across over 5 Billion piracy webpages
        24/7. Our carefully own created script uses the info you provide to deeply
        scan a vast range of IP networks, search engines, social sites, and other
        infringing locations for illegal instances of your content. Following a
        large group of data, our internal spider's scripts identify all links
        as valid or not, beginning the removal process. A consistently action
        of removing illegal instances of your content from all platforms drives higher
        sales. Protecting your content from illegal and unauthorized use puts
        copyright control back into your hands.

[1] [https://www.totalwipesmusicgroup.com/pages/antipiracy](https://www.totalwipesmusicgroup.com/pages/antipiracy)

</comment><comment><USER10> just look for high rejection rates in the transparency reports:

[https://www.google.com/transparencyreport/removals/copyright...](https://www.google.com/transparencyreport/removals/copyright/owners/70463/Aborigeno- Music/)

it's not a singular occasion

[https://www.chillingeffects.org/notices/10424698](https://www.chillingeffects.org/notices/10424698)

[https://www.chillingeffects.org/notices/10436220](https://www.chillingeffects.org/notices/10436220)

</comment><comment><USER11> I must be reading this wrong, are they really saying that they have exclusive linux mint, nmap, open office, and all these other products?

<comment><USER12> They are claiming that those URLs violate their copyright interest in some obscure music album. This is obviously an erroneous DMCA claim, filed either maliciously or by mistake.

<comment><USER3> These kind of things are often due to overly broad or malfunctioning algorithms. Maybe some algorithm just picked up a list of links ending in "download"?

Even if that's a mistake, it looks like gross negligence. These URLs aren't even tangentially related to music.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> It reads like the software list from Ninite ([https://ninite.com/](https://ninite.com/)). Large, dev-oriented free (as in beer) software.

And nothing music related as far as I can see.

One more point against automatic DMCA complaints.

</comment><comment><USER14> The DMCA states it is criminal to send false takedown requests, excusing from mistakes. However "Whoops, I sent a takedown for nothing but open source software!" is not a mistake. It is negligence in writing scripts or a human review process that avoids false takedown requests. If the city "mistakenly forgets" to repair the brakes on its busses, injuring dozens of people, they would of course be liable for the damages.

<comment><USER15> Minor correction. It wasn't nothing but open source software. A few non-open things were in there too.

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> Who has grounds to sue them in response to this?

<comment><USER7> Sue schmue, they filed that form stating they owned the rights to the listed items under penalty of perjury. This is no joke, they should be criminally prosecuted.

<comment><USER17> As I understand it, they claim "under penalty of perjury" only that they own their original work; the claim that the links given actually infringe said work has no such penalty.

My understanding of the logic: It should be relatively easy to tell whether you hold the copyright in a work, unless weird things have happened (see also: SCO). Working out whether a second work is derivative, and if so whether that's fair use? Harder, and the job of a court. That's why it's also really easy to get work re-instated under the DMCA -- at that point, the DMCA has done its bit, failed, and the regular court system takes over.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> Interesting. Is there any indication that any of the sites concerned were delisted for any period of time whatsoever?

<comment><USER19> dev.mysql.com/downloads/mysql/ seems to still be delisted.

</comment></comment><comment><USER20> Doesn't filing fake DMCA complaint result in criminal charges. Doesn't it also expose you to a civil suit?

<comment><USER21> I'm also curious about this. If there is no downside of filing a false DMCA complaint then what prevents someone from causing the receiver a ton of unnecessary work?

</comment></comment><comment><USER22> Arguably a dupe of [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8848544](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8848544).

</comment><comment><USER23> So far no URL of this list seems blocked from here

</comment><comment><USER24> "Total Wipes Music Group"

This has to be a joke.

<comment><USER25> Apparently it isn't.

First available request is from May 2014. URLs requested to be removed: 196953.

[https://www.google.com/transparencyreport/removals/copyright...](https://www.google.com/transparencyreport/removals/copyright/reporters/40594/Total- Wipes-Music-Group/)</comment></comment>


LÖVE 0.6.0 (lua game library) is released - <AUTHOR> http://love2d.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1129

<comment><USER2> LÖVE it!

Much respect for the love2d.org crew.

From a personal(selfish) perspective, mainly I love that they will be contributing to the SDL eco-system, and showing us some cool ways forward.

I think pygame, and the rest of the SDL libraries can share code and ideas with them with Love(2d). Even though both use different languages on top, they both share similar languages below. There already has been sharing, and I hope it continues more in the future.

Also, I hope python developers will take note. Lua is a really fast language (especially with luajit 2.0). With love2d, and lua being included with apache those are two nice options for people to switch from python.

Especially with SDL 1.3 (forever) maturing and its TODO list reducing, it is a great time for simple RAD game libraries :)

</comment><comment><USER3> LÖVE is excellent, especially for prototyping. The fact that you couldn't access pixel data of an image was possibly its biggest shortcoming, but that's fixed with 0.6.

</comment><comment><USER4> Not a timid update. Angles were changed from degrees to radians and the origin of images was moved from the center to the upper left corner.

The courage to make dramatic changes bodes well for LÖVE.

</comment><comment><USER5> Would love to play with it again, that is if the .deb file worked :(

        $ love
        love: error while loading shared libraries: libopenal.so.1: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
        $ ls -l /usr/lib/libopenal.so.1
        lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 14 2009-12-22 13:38 /usr/lib/libopenal.so.1 -> libopenal64.so

<comment><USER6> Maybe it's looking in /usr/local?

<comment><USER5> Nope, was a permissions problem.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Anyone have any luck installing the library on Snow Leopard? The love.app binary for OS X is just a program that has a picture of a tank. I tried installing from source but apparently the configure file isn't set up to recognize where the OpenGL libraries are for Snow Leopard.

<comment><USER7> I haven't tried this yet, but ran into this problem earlier. I think the problem is that you're trying to launch the main.lua file, whereas you need to run love on the directory that that file lives in. (I rebooted to Windows, found the same thing happening, and figured I must be doing something wrong - tried the directory thing and it worked)

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> This seems like a nice alternative to Pygame. I doubt anyone wants to use SDL by itself for graphics, most people want hardware acceleration through OpenGL, and with Pygame they have to write it themselves.

<comment><USER9> For OpenGL on Python there is <http://www.pyglet.org/> and <http://cocos2d.org/>

<comment><USER10> cocos2D is pyglet + bells and whistles. Pyglet is in a transitional period, particularly for the Mac port, which is in the process of being converted to Cocoa rather than Carbon. This is because the Carbon version won't run in the Python that comes with OS X 10.6.

In conclusion, while I think that pyglet's API is superior to PyGame's, for compatibility reasons I wouldn't use pyglet for a new project, at least not until we get the port finished.

<comment><USER9> I am aware that cocos2d is a layer over pyglet but it is a very good way of doing sprite animations. I like both pyglet and cocos2d and prefer them over pygame which in my opinion is not 'pythonic' enough.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> Interesting, although as far as I can see, there's no way to distribute your game without the source code?

<comment><USER12> You could compile to bytecodes using luac, if that is a concern.

<comment><USER11> Thanks! The examples all assume source code, and I don't know much about Lua, so I wasn't sure.</comment></comment></comment>


Major Chinese-made web browsers are reportedly blocking 996ICU's GitHub repo - <AUTHOR> https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=zh-CN&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2F996icu%2F996.ICU%2Fpull%2F24904%23issuecomment-478881871 <comment><USER2> Discussion last week on HN with more info about what 996ICU is: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19498179](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19498179)

</comment><comment><USER3> Overtime in China is the norm, in factories, if you do 40 hrs per week, you will only get the minimum wage in your city, mostly around 200 dollars a month, and you will get kicked real quick.

This looks more like an industry behavior, which is not uncommon in China, for example Tencent blocked on its WeChat self-media platform(a little like Facebook's Instant Articles but much more low-brow and dominant) unflattering articles about PinDuoDuo when it was goinf public in the US, which they invested in.

Cellphone reviewers has long been under control of the brands, they give out guidlines about how to write the review along with test units, manage them in their work groups.

The 360 Chrome brower queries these URLs every time you start the browser or open a URL, namely to give the url a safety and info badge.

site.browser.360.cn

cdata.browser.360.cn

cdn.weather.hao.360.cn

</comment><comment><USER4> According to this thread on V2EX, the block was changed to a redirect to GitHub's 404 page: [https://www.v2ex.com/t/551405#reply19](https://www.v2ex.com/t/551405#reply19)

<comment><USER5> So it seems this is actually done by private companies since they are on the blacklist.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> The actual browsers are hard coded to filter a single github repo?

Is it common for them to filter at the browser level?

<comment><AUTHOR> Maybe those web browsers are linked to a online URL database. If any URL is matched in the database, then they will refuse to load the page.

But if true, that also means those web browsers are querying a online database when user is trying to access a URL.

Not a good news no matter how you hold it.

<comment><USER7> Doesn't Chrome and Firefox do the same for known malicious websites? IIRC they use hashes and / or a local database of hashes, but I can't be sure. Pretty sure that caused major controversy in its earlier days too.

<comment><USER8> Yes, they download a database of forbidden sites from Google (SafeBrowsing) [1]

[1] [https://safebrowsing.google.com/](https://safebrowsing.google.com/)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> Without Google Translation (In Chinese): [https://github.com/996icu/996.ICU/pull/24904#issuecomment-47...](https://github.com/996icu/996.ICU/pull/24904#issuecomment-478881871)

<comment><USER4> > 加?问号随机参数试试,微信可以打开

The block isn't very smart if it can be circumvented by adding random query parameters with a question mark.

<comment><USER6> Maybe, but you have to know to do that in order to get around it.

If you don't know much about the page and get a 404, maybe you just roll on.

If you know to circumvent it, then you probabbly know a bit more about the page anyway, maybe not the person they're trying to filter it from.

At least from UI testing we know that a thing not working, or just working slowly is enough to turn away a lot of people.

<comment><USER9> Maybe

But it is a github repo. Only a small number of interested people are going to be headed there

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> This is currently listed as the most starred repository on Github with 153k stars:

[https://github.com/search?q=stars%3A%3E0&s=stars&type=Reposi...](https://github.com/search?q=stars%3A%3E0&s=stars&type=Repositories) (There was the freeCodeCamp repo with 300k stars, but I don't see it in the list anymore.)

I am surprised that this protest does not get more media coverage. Also, Alibaba and Huawei are in the list of companies...

<comment><USER11> I see freeCodeCamp, it's currently #1 for me, while 996.ICU is #2.

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> Are these browsers popular in China? I'm only aware of UC.

<comment><USER4> The QQ browser is the default for opening URLs in Tencent's popular messaging apps QQ and WeChat, so it probably has a larger market share than UC. The others are a bit more niche I think, but I don't know for sure. There should be some statistics on this page by Baidu, but I can't confirm because it requires Flash (!) and I'm on mobile: [https://tongji.baidu.com/data/browser](https://tongji.baidu.com/data/browser)

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> I've noticed that this story is sliding off the front page incredibly quickly, despite the large number of points accumulated in a short amount of time. Does anyone know why?

<comment><USER14> It's political in nature

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> How come operators of the github page are not in some reeducation camp, or elimitated? Seems like the censors are not as knowing as we thought.

<comment><USER16> As long as you are very clear you are not directing your anger at the government, it's usually ok to protest in China. For example, there are often mass protests if wages are not paid to factory workers, etc.

[https://www.voanews.com/a/chinese-migrant-workers-protest- un...](https://www.voanews.com/a/chinese-migrant-workers-protest-unpaid- wages/3682577.html)

<comment><USER17> Maybe I interpret it wrong, but here is a tricky point: You have to apply for government's permission to do a legal on-street protest.

ref: [http://www.npc.gov.cn/wxzl/gongbao/1989-10/31/content_148121...](http://www.npc.gov.cn/wxzl/gongbao/1989-10/31/content_1481217.htm) (Chapter 2 Article 7, Chinese)

<comment><USER17> Thanks for your replies. I see that it's also required in other countries.

So I'm a little curious that if a protest is related to complaints about the government, will it get accepted (at most cases)?

<comment><USER18> most of them will not be accepted or considered at all. in very rare case, protest will be accepted or encouraged, most of them have gov behind it.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> i work 996 because i am so impressed with china. now i'm reconsidering this behavior

<comment><USER20> Unless your workdays are full of playing games and drinking with coworkers you'll probably burn out with that schedule.

But then again startups founders work those hours or more

<comment><USER19> OOh right, i'm a founder. I feel the opposite of burning out.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> uc browser and qqbrowser are monitor pages you visited.

</comment><comment><USER22> Shocking!

</comment><comment><USER23> This is outrageous. 团结

</comment><comment> abc-xyz I suspect in the near future devices sold in China will be unable to install certain apps (similar to how Apple recently removed Taiwan's national flag for all Macs sold in China with its latest update - [https://mobile.twitter.com/jeremyburge/status/11109235618820...](https://mobile.twitter.com/jeremyburge/status/1110923561882058754)), foreign browsers will stop working (and be forced to implement support for this functionality to the extent that the Chinese government can not only block specific pages on https (as we see here) but also replace the individual page with their own content).. This will make it very easy for China to not only censor the internet, but also to rewrite history completely. Replace the Wikipedia article related to the Tienanmen massacre with their own, replace Googles search results with their own, etc.

To make matters even more scary, they'll put great emphasis on promoting their own browsers in foreign countries, force hardware vendors to preinstall their browsers on devices sold outside China. Forget about the Chinese Firewall, this will take censorship and rewritten history to a whole new level that will affect people all over the world, and make it much much easier to affect foreign policies and elections.

Now for the sad part, even after they've showed their cards, companies and governments will still continue to invest in China, continue to bend over and do whatever they ask for.

<comment><USER24> They'll rewrite any article that they feel is a threat to their power systems and therefore a threat to China. No surprise there. We have similar measures in the US - the government is willing to strip your rights if they feel you're a threat.

There is nothing really all that new in what you've suggested. I would be surprised if those things didn't happen.

<comment> abc-xyz I've never seen any major browser (or some other method) censor/rewrite an individual page that's protected by SSL before.. as far as I know then it's not possible, which is why they've had to resort to banning the entire website (which in GitHub's case would be too costly).. If you know about previous incidents then please do share.

From today we know they are already able to do whatever they please (as long as they can get people to use their browser).. abuse other organizations reputation to spread lies and misinformation. If governments don't act then it won't be long until all these Huawei, Lenovo, OnePlus, Xiaomi, Oppo, Vivo, etc devices come with their browsers preinstalled (and likely default back to their browser to open links from other apps even if you tried to change the browser).</comment></comment></comment>