Ask HN: Mark Zuckerberg presidency? - <AUTHOR> What does the Hacker News crowd think of the possibility of a Mark Zuckerberg presidency? <comment><USER2> I'm extremely concerned about the ethics around converting Facebook into an election machine. Three issues concern me:

1\. Using the platform to push his campaign

2\. Using the platform to suppress opposition press and views

3\. Using the data analytics to gain an unfair advantage

Whichever party is on the receiving end of that candidacy has all rights to be pissed and somewhat concerned. It's not a fair advantage. Last saturday, my s/o got a push notification to watch Zuckerberg have a "drive about chat" with the mayor of South Bend, Indiana, so it's already happening.

See also: [http://www.nature.com/news/facebook-experiment-boosts-us- vot...](http://www.nature.com/news/facebook-experiment-boosts-us-voter- turnout-1.11401)

EDIT: This thread got modded off the FP.

<comment><USER3> I think the only reasonable option, if he was to make a run, would be for him to completely separate himself from Facebook.

<comment><USER2> Do you think that would make a big enough difference? I think he'd still have access.

<comment><USER3> Honestly I don't know

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> I'd love it if he would run and would lose. That way all the dirt about Facebook would finally come to light. I'm sure that more than one FB employee would feel honor bound to make sure the degree of transparency would go up a couple of notches. Two birds with one stone: no MZ as president and Facebook possibly mortally wounded.

<comment><USER5> Facebook would become the world's biggest propaganda machine. I'm 100% sure it would give rise to an alternate social network if Zuckerberg went full democratic.

The way he was trying to push free Internet in Africa and India, I'd be very worried. He would do more damage than trump.

I really don't want Billionaires and wives of presidents leading the country. Just sends the wrong message.

<comment><USER4> > I really don't want Billionaires and wives of presidents leading the > country.

How about their daughters and inlaws?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> I was banned from Facebook for 2 weeks just for posting my opinion in a closed group. Imagine what would that mean in real life. NO!

</comment><comment><USER7> NSA Director sounds like a more fitting position.

</comment><comment><USER8> I don't understand why so many people are enamored with the idea of successful business people becoming President.

The jobs are very different, unless the company they built is truly democratic. As President, you do not rule from the position of CEO, where what you say is truth and must be followed (except in the case of the military). The Companies board, generally less than 20 people, are the only ones who regularly keep you in check, and those generally are only interested in you increasing or maintaining profits.

As President your board is more like Congress. That's 25x the size of the current board. Congress actually passes the laws, which means you need to convince them to do what you want; opposite of a traditional corporate board. And congress really only does what their constituents want, b/c the house faces elections every two years. So really you need to convince their voters that what you're trying to convince them to do is right so that congress feels like they can actually do it.

This takes very different types of leaders in, IMO. Zuckerberg for, better or worse, has been successful at leading a company in a direction where he has nearly sole control. That doesn't translate directly to President, let alone a successful one, and on top of _that_ he'd actually need to get elected, which would surprise me...

</comment><comment><USER9> Nononononono he might make me vote third party if he wins the nomination. Fuck Zuckerberg. You don't build something like Facebook and get a fucking reward for it!

<comment><USER10> Actually, it seems pretty clear that you get tens of billions of rewards for it...

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> Nope. I will empty my life savings into the campaign account of whoever is running opposite. I don't care who it is. I do not want Mark Zuckerberg running anything, let alone this country. Something about the guy just screams sleaze.

</comment><comment><USER12> Bored billionaires should find other avenues to not be bored. He should take cues from Richard Branson.

</comment><comment> rm_-rf_slash Zuckerberg 2020 would mean four more years of Donald Trump.

"You have no choice but to vote for me" was essentially the unspoken message of the Clinton campaign. After four years of Trump, that will be the message for anybody running against him. A lot of people distrust him for more right reasons than I could count.

Mark, if you are reading this, don't hold this nation hostage to feed your ego. We want a qualified public servant, not an endless cascade of billionaires who think they know better than the people whose lives are public policy, not selling private information for a buck.

We don't want you. We won't have you.

</comment><comment> rm_-rf_slash If the Democratic machine chose Mark Zuckerburg as presidential nominee, I would vote Republican or third party for the first time in my life.

For someone with so much information about each of us, he is astoundingly tone-deaf when it comes to public criticism of Facebook and it's profound negative side effects, whether it's fake news, Facebook Live streaming of murders, or simply the effect that social media has on a brain developed for survival on the savannah.

Mark Zuckerberg knows too much about us. And yet, he understands surprisingly little.

</comment><comment><USER13> The resistance to this would be so strong it would make 2016 look like a walk in the park.

This is not a well-liked person from nearly _any_ community. It will be entertaining to watch if nothing else.

</comment><comment><USER14> There are so many signs that are leading to his possible bid for presidency. Otherwise why would he ask his staff to find out a democratic family who voted for #45.

1 - [http://wgntv.com/2017/04/30/ohio-family-surprised-when- mark-...](http://wgntv.com/2017/04/30/ohio-family-surprised-when-mark- zuckerberg-comes-to-dinner/)

</comment><comment><USER15> As a stout Bernie Sanders supporter, who wrote him in rather than stoop to voting for CLinton who cheated to win (IMHO) -- if Mark ran-- and got the nomination I would again write in Sanders ( for me, I'm tired of the elite class ruling), and while I admire Mark from a business level, and what he's accomplished at such a young age, and think he'd not be horrible as president -- I'm of the belief that neoliberalism is out, and egalitarianism is in. Had he come out in major support of Sanders, or switches and adopts his platform and is sincere, I might change my mind -- but there's a shift from neoliberalism and Nationalism/Egalitarianism are the two ways it could go.

We can go back to FDR and the new deal, or we can go like Mussolini and fascism. So far we're headed to fascism, but I think Trump is just proof that we're tired of the old, and desperate for something new, when he fails it'll be time for the progressive wing of the democrats to come in and clean things up..

</comment><comment><USER16> Why are we even entertaining this question? Like, why Zuck vs...whoever else?

Did he say he'd run or something?

<comment><USER3> Two reasons I've heard given are that: this year he's had the stated goal of visiting all the states in the US (seemingly with a large focus on meeting "everyday people"), and that he's publicly changed his view on religion to be more positive about it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> PHP dev as a president? No way!

<comment><USER10> Literal lol.

Seriously though, it'd be interesting to have any kind of programmer / engineer / etc as President. Have we ever had that?

<comment><USER18> Herbert Hoover was a mining engineer for a while. This is a rather unfortunate example.

I can't remember any names, but I know other countries have a had a better go of it. Specifically I'm thinking of an Eastern Asian country but I really can't remember who and what country.

<comment><USER19> I presume you're referring to Lee Hsien Loong, the Prime Minister of Singapore?

[https://arstechnica.com/information- technology/2015/05/prime...](https://arstechnica.com/information- technology/2015/05/prime-minister-of-singapore-shares-his-c-code-for-sudoku- solver/)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> Depending on which country. He could have become a president of some poor, maybe African or Asian state and use his knowledge and funds to help it. If you are talking about US president, then no, definitely no.

</comment><comment><USER12> Last time I heard him speak publicly he was so utterly horrible at it that there's no way he'll succeed in political campaigning.

</comment><comment><USER21> Please no.

</comment><comment><USER22> No.

Second this:

I'm extremely concerned about the ethics around converting Facebook into an election machine. Three issues concern me: 1\. Using the platform to push his campaign 2\. Using the platform to suppress opposition press and views 3\. Using the data analytics to gain an unfair advantage

So far, I've not seen much from him that I find compelling.

</comment><comment><USER23> Do I think he _should_ be considered as President? No, running a corporate empire and surveillance network (no matter how benignly or maliciously exploited) does not involve the same skills and temperament that are desirable in leading an open and democratic society.

Do I think he _could_ be considered? Yes. The past two years have proven that any qualification for office not explicitly coded in law is void. And "he built Facebook" is an appealing argument to the heuristic that all impressive accomplishments indicate the same type of merit.

</comment><comment><USER24> Are there other possibilities besides the presidency?

</comment><comment><USER25> I am hoping that the current administration cures the country of its belief in the power of amateurism.

</comment><comment><USER26> I think it'd be interesting - I mean, yeah, Zuck gives me the heebie jeebies, nut it'd at least be entertaining to watch. Hopefully he'd have some interesting tech ideas to move things forward. Whether that'd be happen or not would have to be seen, but if nothing else, the process would be entertaining.

<comment><USER27> > entertaining to watch

that's the kind attitude that got us to where we are now.

<comment><USER21> Exactly. We all wanted Trump to run because it would be funny.

Damn.

<comment><USER28> [http://southpark.cc.com/clips/4g55v8/maple- fever](http://southpark.cc.com/clips/4g55v8/maple-fever)

South Park was remarkably prescient.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER29> No better time to abstain from voting as I assume the opponent would be even worse.

</comment><comment><USER30> I think the very asking, and responding, to this question is dangerous. We should not entertain the possibility because the mere presence of the idea in the public consciousness is to his benefit.

</comment><comment><USER31> "Sorry folks, it looks like during the re-election campaign we accidentally marked everyone's vote for me as public. We'll get this fixed soon."

</comment><comment><USER32> Thank god he's not charismatic enough to pull something like that off. Whereas Trump is merely a boasting incompetent idiot, Zuckerberg is actually truly evil.

<comment><USER33> [citation needed]

</comment></comment><comment><USER34> how delightfully dystopian

</comment><comment><USER35> He can't run anyway can he? Isn't 35 the age limit?

<comment><USER36> Next election is 2020. The speculation is based on a few things he's done along with the fact that, for the first time, he will be old enough to run.

</comment></comment><comment><USER37> Zuck: People just voted for me.

Zuck: I don't know why.

Zuck: They "trust me"

Zuck: Dumb fucks.

</comment><comment><USER38> No

</comment><comment><USER39> Please no.

</comment><comment><USER40> Horrifying. There's really nothing else to say. It's absolutely horrifying.

</comment><comment><USER41> The amount of negativity in this thread about Zuckerberg as president is pretty astounding.

2020 Trump vs Zuck I would wager a bet that this thread would be filled with different opinions.

<comment> rm_-rf_slash Trump won because millions of voters despised the "you have no choice but to vote for me" they saw in Hillary Clinton.

You don't think it can't happen twice?

<comment><USER5> I sometimes feel people worship billionaires like Gods so I wouldn't be surprised to see a large following.

I also believe the HN crowd sometimes gets into a bubble. There's a large part of America that thinks very differently and I have little idea how they make their decisions. If Zuckerberg has this figured out then I wouldn't be surprised to see him win.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER42> So much negativity in the comments. I don't think he'd be ready for the presidency but if we starts a public service career based on decent opinions and policies, augmented by his wealth and reach so he doesn't need to sell out to campaign financiers, couldn't a good thing come out of it? I don't think having been successful with Facebook is enough to bury him _already_ , same way is not enough to vote for him yet, he needs to make his case. Presidency would be too hasty of course, he'd need to put 10-15 years of public service first I'd say, if he wants to capitalize on his fame to launch a marketing bid at the office then no.</comment>


Lwan, a high-performance web server with Lua support - <AUTHOR> https://lwan.ws/ <comment><USER2> I'm certainly not in the market for a webserver with lua support, but if I were I would definitely be looking at nginx first. May I suggest that you make a subsection/table that delineates why someone would go for this rather than nginx? There is a section that says that if you think of apache/nginx first then that {nginx/apache} is probably best for you, but I think lumping in apache and nginx together may be a mistake, and even if I'm giving preferential treatment to nginx I may be swayed nonetheless.

<comment><USER3> I think it targets embedded machines which is actually quite nice in c + lua. openwrt uses this combo.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> With a small code base there is also h2o and it already has http2 and a very good https performance (can serve around twice as much than nginx). After looking for most of available http servers h2o is my preferred one right now. Also I have a fork of h2o compiled as C++ (right now it cleans a bit redundancy/verbosity of C) and add SquiLu and Lua scripting (h2o comes with mruby only).

[https://github.com/h2o/h2o](https://github.com/h2o/h2o)

[https://github.com/mingodad/h2o](https://github.com/mingodad/h2o)

[https://github.com/mingodad/squilu](https://github.com/mingodad/squilu)

<comment><USER5> ... however, my h2o servers get a lower score with Qualys SSL Labs in their default configuration than Nginx does. This is due to the fact that h2o seems to support ciphers per default that are considered less secure (according to Qualys SSL Labs while testing servers using h2o).

<comment><USER4> I've looked at h2o website and seems that someone asked this question and there is an example of a stronger configuration. Using it I did a test on a raspberry pi 3 and here [https://gist.github.com/mingodad/e5a46c809ee030befc18](https://gist.github.com/mingodad/e5a46c809ee030befc18) is the output.

What I noticed is that with nginx there is more connections even using keepalive (h2o 4 connections, nginx 102 connections).

h2o-default: 4123 rps

h2o-strong-256-first: 3849 rps

h2o-strong-384: 4233 rps

nginx-default: 2309 rps

<comment><USER4> I added also test with h2load, but with this tool h2o/ngix performs basically equal.

nginx-default: 1067 rps

h2o-strong-384: 1009 rps

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Ha, I remember when we picked nginx because it was small, fast and simple years ago (compared to Apache). It is interesting how the cycle repeats. This is the new fast and simple, kind of what nginx started with.

<comment><USER7> Doesn't really work with nginx though, a webserver that it still extremely fast and simple.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> Lwan, a backronym for "Lwan Will Annihilate Node.js". Cheeky.

<comment><USER9> Technically, I think that's a recursive acronym. Backcronym is when something has a name and you after the fact make it into an acronym.

<comment><USER10> According to the FAQ it was suggested a posteriori, so technically it's a recursive backronym!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> "Does it support HTTP2? -> Not yet"

Ok, back to Nginx/H2O/Caddy.

</comment><comment><USER12> Algernon supports both Lua and HTTP/2\. Written in Go.

[http://algernon.roboticoverlords.org/](http://algernon.roboticoverlords.org/)

</comment><comment><USER13> Linux only - bummer. Not even FreeBSD.

The turbolua.org project is somewhat similar (i.e. a webserver with Lua support).

<comment><USER14> It builds on FreeBSD (soon OS X), but it's not working yet.

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> It seems like a cool project with a nice clean coding style, but the lack of API documentation makes it less inviting. I'm sitting here grepping through the repo without much of an idea of what to try next besides reading the whole code base.

</comment><comment><USER16> Is Lwan a good project for a C beginner to learn more about C and contribute?

<comment><USER17> It has been made with great deal of attention to details and code quality, so yes, it is a good one.

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> Finally a nice, open-source answer to Barracuda:

[http://barracudaserver.com/](http://barracudaserver.com/)

Or closer to one, anyway. Support for RTOS's like QNX and INTEGRITY puts it ahead in a big way. Someone might port this to GenodeOS, MINIX 3, or something similar. Nonetheless, it's a start that might save someone some money. If it's well-done internally, it might also be easy to port to other languages or secure CPU's in development. That rids us of need for garbage collection or JIT.

</comment><comment><USER19> Interestingly, Lwan is the fastest server for json serialization : [https://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/#section=data-r12&hw=...](https://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/#section=data-r12&hw=peak&test=json)

This could be a great choice as a json server, if they showed more examples working with data stores (postgres or cloud data stores) and also testing

</comment><comment><USER20> Is the name a take on that phony gwan server? (It seemed fast, but it absolutely did not respect unique sessions when I bench'd it.)

<comment><USER14> Kind of. I've tried making the page just as phony, but that's more difficult than it sounds.

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> I started out using Apache and now I am on Nginx. I like the simplicity of the configuration of Nginx along with the great documentation and modules.

It would be a hard sell for me to switch to Lwan. My sites are not getting 300k connections all at once.

</comment><comment><USER22> Interesting. Someone used lwan as a replacement for the Node.js HTTP server [https://github.com/raadad/node-lwan](https://github.com/raadad/node-lwan)

</comment><comment><USER23> The C API can be used from Lua with LuaJIT, right? It seems like this is the way to go to create the bindings.

<comment><USER14> It's possible with FFI, yes, but it's not the way it's currently done in Lwan.

</comment></comment><comment><USER24> The C interface looks really well made. I might try and play around with this to make a few microservices.

</comment><comment><USER25> > Hand-written HTTP request parser

Aren't they all hand-written?

<comment><USER26> Yea, I'm not sure why that's a benefit, either. It's like they're trying to sell stuffed animals on Etsy, "hand sewed."

<comment><USER14> That's not the only joke in the feature list (or the whole page, to be honest.)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> I think the easy c interop is kind of neat.

</comment><comment><USER28> Is Lua the new in vogue programming language?

<comment><USER29> Lua is a simple and only slightly quirky (1-based arrays) dynamic programming language. It has exceptionally small and high quality implementations in Lua and LuaJIT. It has very good documentation.

Its main downside is that the language changes in backward-compatible ways between releases. And worse, LuaJIT has in some sense forked the language. Lua 5.3 introduced integer support, but there are no plans to add this to LuaJIT AFAIK.

<comment><USER13> The 1-based indexing isn't particularly bothersome. It's the method vs. function determination at call site combined with default nil for unspecified arguments that really gets you.

<comment><USER30> > default nil for unspecified arguments

Isn't this what most scripting languages do? I know it's the case with Python and PHP.

And I disagree about the 1-based array indexing. With algorithms that require a lot of 1-off values, it can be a huge pain in the ass, particularly if you're trying to integrate it with C (and its 0-based array indexing). Still not sure why the creators chose it, given that Lua was designed for easy and close C interop.

<comment><USER13> Python errors out if you don't specify all arguments.

        >>> def f(a):
        ...   pass
        ...
        >>> f()
        Traceback (most recent call last):
          File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
        TypeError: f() takes exactly 1 argument (0 given)
        >>>

I agree 1-based indexing isn't ideal, but in the grand scheme of things, the default nils and the method/function syntax are a constant source of mistakes and frustration for me. In Lua you have to call `obj:method()` which to pass `obj` as the first argument. If you accidentally do `obj.method()` - there is no error, but the first argument becomes `nil`.

In Python, there the call syntax is consistent and `obj` is automatically passed as the first argument for methods.

<comment><USER31> > but the first argument becomes `nil`

s/first/last/, the arguments will be shifted to the right. But yes, it can be annoying.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Android on a Netbook - an Eee Transformer Review - <AUTHOR> http://jsnell.iki.fi/blog/archive/2012-02-22-android-on-a-netbook-eee-transformer-review.html

<comment><USER2> I have mentioned it before but this thread seems a good place to mention it again. I have an ASUS Slider which I thoroughly enjoy. Different form factor but identical software and keyboard / USB mouse use. Absolutely love it if anyone is considering this type of form factor (a keyboarded Android tablet)

I don't seem to have the same 'loss of state' issues the author does... probably just due to which apps I use most. Using the 'window list' to change apps isn't quite as quick as I'd like (small pause when I open it as it renders) but I haven't had any issues other than that.

Also don't agree with the author's view that this is meant to be a Netbook replacement. I think viewing it in that light or expecting it to be is setting it up for failure. It's Android with a keyboard so you can do textual content generation easier. The upside is it comes apart and becomes just a tablet at will, and runs for what... 15 hours when docked? It's not a use case for everyone but nor it is intended to be a netbook replacement.

<comment><USER3> Agreed on most counts: I don't really have an issue with loss of state when switching apps either. It probably varies depending on how many you have going.

While I wouldn't sell the Transformer as a netbook replacement universally, it really has completely usurped my old Eee PC and largely replaced my Macbook Pro as the device I take with me when I go somewhere. Sure, you need a distro chroot (I use Debian, personally, but there are a bunch that work) to do anything useful programming-wise, but I don't really see that as a hindrance: I can compartmentalise that to a MicroSD card and it doesn't affect the usual operation of the tablet as a tablet when I want that.

Basically, I love my Transformer to an extent that I'd have found surprising before I bought it. I've done real work on it, and it's a pretty good tablet even without a dock.

(All of that said, the trackpad is completely useless, sadly.)

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> ummm review of software and handware and not a single picture or screenshot to be found...what am I missing here

<comment><USER5> apparently the text.

I found the review be very good:

        * switching apps looses context/state and is slow
        * pdf readers suck
        * some keyboard shortcuts seem to be impossible, making emacs painful

I for one found it surprising that there are all these issues. I was considering getting one of the Full HD ones, it's good to know what to expect.

<comment><USER6> I hope the work on the issues before Windows 8 comes out. With Chrome being ported to Android I wonder if they will merge Chrome OS and Android. Provide a more Chrome OS app management system when dock or attached to a monitor.

<comment><USER5> I'd love that. I hope my next computer is my phone. Even better if it can run starcraft 2 :)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> I was going to type this on my own Transformer, even got several paragraphs in, but I'm finishing on my Mac. See point 8 for why.

(1) The battery life really is awesome. I get a full day of near-continuous use - including video and such - out of the internal battery, plus another out of the battery in the dock. On the downside, the USB charging cable is non- standard with respect to both form factor and voltage.

(2) The trackpad really is useless.

(3) The task switching is just as bad as the author says. Each time I start Firefox, I have to guess whether it will have my old tabs or a clean slate. It's impossible even to know whether it will show up in the app switcher. _Usually_ , if one application (e.g. twitter/email) invokes another (e.g. a browser), the second will disappear from the app switcher until you explicitly go back to the first, or else you have to go back to the home screen and launch from there. Even that broken behavior's not consistent, though.

(4) The built-in email program sucks, and K-9 is almost as bad.

(5) There's no decent ssh client. I have two - one which does tunnels but has atrocious keyboard handling, one which has semi-decent keyboard handling (Ctrl actually works and I can simulate the missing Esc) but doesn't do tunnels. Unfortunately they're incompatible with one another in some weird way, so using both simultaneously is a bit tricky.

(6) I haven't found a program to create/edit slides. I've tried for Android office apps, and as many online apps including Google's own. _None_ could handle so much as a simple bullet list properly. Most couldn't even put the cursor in the right place half the time.

(7) Text selection and cut/paste sometimes work (inconsistently across applications) and sometimes they don't. Cursor keys sometimes work and sometimes they don't.

(8) Stuff on the web can be very flaky. Text-entry boxes (e.g. here) often don't scroll properly as you type, so you have to scroll manually. Sometimes you lose the ability to reposition the cursor either by pointing (see point 6) and never had it via cursor keys (point 7). That's why I'm on the Mac now, after two rounds of that. On other sites (e.g. Quora) text-entry boxes fail to keep up with typing and just randomly set you back to the start every couple of words or so.

That's a lot of glitches and complaints, huh? I must hate this thing with a burning passion, right? Actually I love it. For video, games, and passive content consumption it's pure awesome. It's light, the screen is a joy, changing orientations on a whim is incredibly handy. As soon as I try to _do_ or _make_ anything with it, though . . . well, then it becomes a big sack of awful. It's an amazing complement to a real computer, but certainly not a replacement for one.

<comment><USER8> > (3) The task switching is just as bad as the author says.

I was puzzling over this because he says there is no way to task switch from the keyboard and yet:

[http://www.androidpolice.com/2011/08/12/tip-want-the-app- swi...](http://www.androidpolice.com/2011/08/12/tip-want-the-app-switcher- button-on-asus-transformers-keyboard-dock-just-alttab-instead/)

From what I understand, Alt-Tab task switching was delivered in the 3.2 update - can you clarify whether that's true or not?

Fwiw, I strongly suspect that the task-switching experience varies enormously depending on what you switch between. Firefox is probably a worst-possible- case because it'll use loads of memory and force Android to kill all other apps.

<comment><AUTHOR> That's a hack that doesn't work very consistently. For example in most terminal emulators or the Google Docs app Alt-Tab does nothing. In the Browser the first press of Alt-Tab will just put the focus on the url bar, and you need to press a second time to get the task switcher. An inconsistent mechanism is even less useful than a cumbersome one.

However, it also looks as if some update has also added the capacity to navigate the recent apps menu with the keyboard, which is nice. It still needs to be triggered from the touch screen, but it's getting there.</comment></comment></comment>


Browser-based IDE for writing webapps 100% in JavaScript - <AUTHOR> http://www.erbix.com/js/

<comment><USER2> This seems like a lot more than an "IDE in the cloud" -- they have this great monetization angle of letting you publish your apps directly into their "App Store" (something like Google App Engine but also a store front for customers?) and apps that people "purchase" through the app store have the added benefit of allowing you to automatically roll out updates to them in this controlled fashion.

If these were client-only JS apps, the idea of auto-update makes no sense, but given that this is all geared at client/server apps all written in JS, deploying that into an app-engine-esque execution environment that also doubles as an app store... that's a really creative idea.

For example, imagine if Amazon had an "App Store" front end for all the commercial apps on EC2 that wanted to integrate with it? Or Google App Engine did?

Would make for a very cool discovery method for customers to find cool apps and add a level of convenience for both the developer to notify/communicate with their customers as well as the customers to learn about new apps, get notified in a unified way of new features in their favorite apps, etc.

ASIDE: When I first heard Apple was doing a Mac App Store, I thought it was the dumbest thing I'd ever heard. After using it, I can safely say I am an idiot and it's fantastically convenient.

I've come around on this whole app-store-for-all-sorts-of-crap idea... when done right, they can be a really nice thing. That being said, I am not looking forward to a future where I juggle 10 of them, 1 from each major vendor and one for each cell carrier. There is a limit.

<comment><USER3> Google App Engine does have one.

But it makes no sense for an IDE to have an App store. If they want to make an app store they need to get an angle for consumers not for developers.

<comment><USER2> The App Store is two parts -- there is the developer facing part where you publish into it and the consumer facing portion for discovery right?

Apple's mobile and Mac App Store work this way. Amazon's app store, google marketplace, etc. etc. I think the concept of an app store implies "developer and consumer-facing pieces".

Maybe I'm missing the point you were making?

I think it's a really progressive look at software development to include the deployment/sales part of deployment directly into the IDE.

I imagine the ecosystem around Java would have been considerably different if 12 years ago NetBeans (and later Eclipse 1.0) had shipped with a Sun-managed client app store right out of the gate.

Remember the whole idea behind commercial Java Beans and Applets for sale? That might have _actually_ worked had there been a central repository for all that with sufficient discovery tools.

Combining the app store and execution container idea all into one is just the next step of services like Google App Engine, Heroku and Elastic Beanstalk I think.

10 years ago the idea of App Engine would have seemed silly, now it's common place and hugely desired. 10 years from now, having a deployment container that doesn't directly help me sell or market my app... well that might seem like an inconvenience to me as the developer.

<comment><USER3> Apple got the customers first, that drove developer demand not a lot of people using XCode, was what I meant.

Sun could have had a market, it is true, but if it had been via the IDE they could have lost to to IBM with Eclipse. It makes no sense tying these in, when there are standard application containers that are IDE independent.

<comment><USER2> Gotcha, thanks for clarifying. I agree the demand has to come from the consumer end first no matter how hard devs push out.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> I've been trying out <http://cloud9ide.com/> recently. Auto imports from Github and Bitbucket. Pretty nice, quick and beautiful.

<comment><USER5> Nice, just signed up. Will be playing around with it for a while today. I wonder if either IDE could benefit from my feature idea from this post a day or two ago ( <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2715066> )

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> It seems interesting, but I find it tries to do "too much"; Like with the AppStore, the SQL console etc etc.

</comment><comment><USER7> It's definitely really cool that this can be done, but what advantage does this give over my native development environment? Do people really find themselves developing on random machines enough to justify switching to a cloud-based IDE?

<comment><USER8> I have been hoping for a web-based IDE so I can hack from my Chromebook while on the road.

<comment><USER7> Good point, that's definitely a valid use. But these browser IDE's have been popping up for the past couple years, long before Chromebooks were announced, which makes me feel like there must some other need or use case that I'm not thinking of.

<comment><USER9> ssh and vnc? Is this possible on a Chromebook?

<comment><USER8> Chromebook, in its default configuration, can do limited SSH, but it's designed essentially as a browser.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> I have been eagerly waiting for a good web-based text editor and dev environment since it is the only real desktop app that I still use - but this isn't it

I wish somebody would just write a vi port in js and put it online with a simple file store and git/hg. I started that project a while ago but gave up on it

<comment><USER11> Tried <http://cloud9ide.com> yet ? It's crappy/buggy/slowy now but will be great when beta ends.

<comment><USER12> Hasn't cloud9 been in the works for almost 5 years? Hasn't it always been "almost there"?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> 1\. Rather flaky; I've seen many "The server could not return a valid response" errors

2\. Where is source control? This feels like editing code live on the production server.

3\. I hope online IDEs take off. It's a much-needed change in the way software is written. Awesome.

</comment><comment><USER13> So how do you code an AJAX Web page? [http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/print/9002170/So_how_...](http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/print/9002170/So_how_i_do_i_you_code_an_AJAX_Web_page_)</comment>


The 'IxD Bauhaus' - What Happens Next? - <AUTHOR> http://johnnyholland.org/2011/04/18/the-ixd-bauhaus-what-happens-next/

<comment><USER2> You could argue that software development - not only user interaction design - is also undergoing similar trend of simplification, going back to basics. Just look at the current interest in Lisp and Functional Programming.

Coincidentally, the Bauhaus style is also known as Functionalism.</comment>


Restaurants dissatisfied with OpenTable: a startup opportunity?  - <AUTHOR> http://insidescoopsf.sfgate.com/incanto/2010/10/18/is-opentable-worth-it/

<comment><USER2> UrbanSpoon announced a competing restaurant reservation service earlier this year: [http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/urbanspoon_challenges_o...](http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/urbanspoon_challenges_opentable_with_rezbook.php)

Their pricing model is described as $99/mo + $1/reservation, which seems more reasonable than OpenTable's reportedly high fees. Also, UrbanSpoon seems uniquely positioned to replace OpenTable, since they already have users and restaurant data.

<comment><USER3> Thanks! We've been working for a while now on this at Urbanspoon.

There's more press on our reservation efforts here:

[http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405274870369180457525...](http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703691804575254680739522068.html)

[http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/05/20/urbanspoon- squares-...](http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/05/20/urbanspoon-squares-off- against-opentable/)

[http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/01/technology/personaltech/01...](http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/01/technology/personaltech/01smart.html?_r=1)

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> It sounds like it's definitely an opportunity. A though one to crack though, like all marketplaces.

</comment><comment><USER5> I had no idea OpenTable charged restaurants so much. I didn't use it often, but I see no reason to use it at all now. It's convenient, but I would much rather the money go to the restaurant.

</comment><comment><USER6> I've developed a web-based alternative to OpenTable: <http://www.sexbyfood.com>

<comment><USER6> Video: <http://vimeo.com/9152251>

PDF: <http://bit.ly/cXpF25>

Screenshots: <http://bit.ly/bIZBrv></comment></comment>


New Digital Currency Aims to Unite Every Money System - <AUTHOR> http://www.wired.com/2014/08/new-digital-currency-aims-to-unite-every-money-system-on-earth/

<comment><USER2> [http://xkcd.com/927/](http://xkcd.com/927/)

      Situation: There are 14 competing standards.

      14?! Ridiculous!  We need to develop one
      universal standard that covers everyone's
      use cases.

                            Yeah!

      +</comment><comment>-+
      | Soon: |
      +</comment><comment>-+

            There are 15 competing standards.

</comment><comment><USER3> The article fails to mention Jed McCaleb sold millions of dollars worth of XRP that he and his company premined and gave to themselves.

<comment><USER4> He's also the PHP guru behind this:

[http://i.imgur.com/xMeW43a.jpg](http://i.imgur.com/xMeW43a.jpg)</comment></comment>


Republican Senator Says Facebook and Instagram Need to 'Disappear' - <AUTHOR> https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/mb83mq/republican-senator-says-facebook-and-instagram-need-to-disappear <comment><USER2> it's pretty impressive how "Maybe we'd be better off if Facebook disappeared." becomes "Need to 'Disappear'"

It appears the scare quotes in the headline are on the wrong word.

<comment><USER3> 'Journalism'

</comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> The actual Opinion piece is available on the USA Today website [0].

[0] [https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2019/05/22/facebook-i...](https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2019/05/22/facebook- instagram-twitter-do-more-harm-than-good-column/3751735002/)

</comment><comment><USER4> The simple issue is this, politicians want these types of organizations to be either broken up or ended for the reason that they cannot control the message.

With regular media outlets they have sufficient influence to manage the message getting out. With all these new outlets their influence is severely diminished or none at all.

So they peddle the terms fake news, foreign influence, hate speech, protection of the your rights, when all they want to do is protect their position. All of the issues raised are overblown and have existed in one form or another but the difference now is we, we the people, have the freedom to express ourselves to others, find facts from sources politicians do not influence, and make decisions without their input.

just be careful in lining up to restrict an outlet or group until you realize the ultimate benefactors

</comment><comment><USER5> "Free market, only when it suits me."</comment>


Microsoft Announces Web Office... Google Has Decisions To Make - <AUTHOR> http://whydoeseverythingsuck.com/2008/10/microsoft-announces-web-office-google.html

<comment><USER2> From techcrunch:

"We had guessed earlier this year that Microsoft would choose the Silverlight platform to deliver Office online, but Microsoft will instead be copying the Google approach - the applications will be 100% HTML and Javascript."

This article says that it will be Silverlight. Tempted to trust TC on this one.

<comment><USER3> according to readwriteweb it will include js,html, and silverlight, as one would expect.

[http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/microsoft_office_comes_...](http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/microsoft_office_comes_to_browser.php)</comment></comment>


Questionify - Q&A-Powered customer support  - <AUTHOR> http://www.questionify.com

<comment><AUTHOR> I hate to spam, but I thought this app could maybe help you/your startup. Questionify is at the early stage and I'm following the lean startup principle, so I'm looking for the initial customers.

How is Questionify different from GetSatisfaction/Tenderapp/Uservoice? Questionify is a Q&A platform that lets your customers ask questions. Your employees answer them through the web interface or by email(you get an email every time someone asks a question) and your support page is updated in a matter of seconds. You can upload screenshots or paste YouTube URLs in answers, we'll convert them and prettify the answers.

Fully brandable. Questionify is full brandable, you can style it by uploading your company's logo, setting the brand colors.

No registration necessary for posting a question. Your customers dont have to register on Questionify to post a question, questions are monitored through the Pending Questions tab.

Subscribe to a question. On every question page, customers can subscribe to a question(by leaving their email) and get notified when that question is answered or if the current answer is changed. Customers can leave their email when creating a question and they're automatically added to the question's subscriber list.

Questions are sorted by category and views. Every question belongs to a category which you can create/edit/update/delete, questions belong to categories. For instance, if Hacker News was using Questionify, some categories would be: issues, submitting a post, jobs, etc. Every time you open up a question it's rank is increased by one(backend: questions have a views field which is auto incremented by 1 upon every question view) so that your home page shows the 10 most viewed questions for each category.

I'd love to hear your thoughts, opionions, questions. I'm always on HN so expect a immediate response.</comment>


AIs Have Mastered Chess. Will Go Be Next? (TL;DR: Still Not.) - r-u-serious http://spectrum.ieee.org/robotics/artificial-intelligence/ais-have-mastered-chess-will-go-be-next

<comment> r-u-serious Interesting read about the approach of using Monte-Carlo tree search, though.</comment>


Photoshop is killing me when... - <AUTHOR> http://photoshopkiller.com/

<comment><USER2> Avocode

[http://i.imgur.com/B11zMdK.png](http://i.imgur.com/B11zMdK.png)

[http://i.imgur.com/1PkX4g2.png](http://i.imgur.com/1PkX4g2.png)

Source: [http://vimeo.com/92059385](http://vimeo.com/92059385)

<comment><USER3> Sketch is much better than that...

<comment><AUTHOR> Avocode is not really competing sketch. It's more for developers to export assets, css, svg, fonts from designs.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Why do I have to share to see more complaints?

</comment><comment><USER5> Here is some info about Photoshopkiller [http://insidecube.com/posts/photoshop-are-we-going-to- kill-p...](http://insidecube.com/posts/photoshop-are-we-going-to-kill- photoshop/)

</comment><comment><USER6> It announces two week later. But Sketch is onsale this week...

<comment><AUTHOR> We are not really competing Sketch. Landing Page for Avocode coming soon :) See this [http://i.imgur.com/B11zMdK.png](http://i.imgur.com/B11zMdK.png)

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> Fuck avocode!</comment>


On the tail risk of violent conflict and its underestimation [pdf] - <AUTHOR> http://www.fooledbyrandomness.com/violence.pdf <comment><USER2> Can someone explain this to me like I'm seven? My maths just isn't good enough. I've read Pinker's Better Angels and I've read the unsatisfying letters that Taleb wrote in criticism. Taleb seems to have a chip on his shoulder and while he's undoubtedly an incredibly smart man, his thinking is often sloppy when he steps outside his field.

<comment><USER3> Seconded.

<comment><USER4> Introduction in Extreme Value Theory [1]

[1] [http://www2.meteo.uni- bonn.de/projekte/SPPMeteo/wiki/lib/exe...](http://www2.meteo.uni- bonn.de/projekte/SPPMeteo/wiki/lib/exe/fetch.php?id=cops_2a&cache=cache&media=evt_cops2.pdf)

<comment><USER3> Not sure that's pitched at a seven year old

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> I work as an actuary and are somewhat used to seeing calculations like these. They often point to very large tail risks, for example in catastrophe modelling like windstorm, or in this case violent conflict. What makes me somewhat doubt the applicability of these models is that they often statistically encapsulate what you already know:

Life is fragile (to borrow Talebs word). Weather, environment (think supervulcanoes) and man itself (violent conflict, nuclear events) all have the capacity to do enormous damage and are a threat to society.

I know it's a variation on the age old question "What's the use of #$this_science?", but even Talebs own narrative goes into making systems 'antifragile'. You can only make systems antifragile for so far as the causes of the fragility are understood and manageable. So for an insurer we can do something with a 1-in-200 chance of total ruin: don't insure. A society can take measures to build earthquake-resistant buildings. Perhaps even move away cities from supervolcanoes.

But in case of violent conflict: What can we do to prevent the US - China war? (To name another now trending topic [1]) Or the next black swan conflict?

[1] [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10309448](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10309448) (edit, thanks!: changed link to The Thucydides Trap: Are the U.S. And China Headed for War?)

<comment><USER5> Just a side remark, I always wonder when reading about Taleb whether he was truly the first to discover the balance between fragility and robustness or anti-fragility. I remember some really inspiring work by John Doyle [1] at Caltech in the early 2000s on the concept of Highly Optimized Tolerance [2] and complexity and robustness [3], stating that natural and engineered networks exhibit a high tolerance towards common perturbations, yet can show catastrophic failures when encountering extremely rare events (as described by power law distributions). Never read much about Nassim Taleb's hypotheses, yet sounds similar at first. Has Taleb popularized a concept that got stuck in the unpopulated wasteland between theoretical physics and control theory?

[1] [http://leecenter.caltech.edu/doyle- res.html](http://leecenter.caltech.edu/doyle-res.html)

[2] Highly optimized tolerance: A mechanism for power laws in designed systems, JM Carlson, J Doyle, Phys Rev E 60(2) 2, 1999

[3] [http://www.pnas.org/content/99/suppl_1/2538.abstract](http://www.pnas.org/content/99/suppl_1/2538.abstract)

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> I think the most interesting here is this line: "All in all, among the different classes of data (raw and rescaled), we observe that 1) casualties are power law distributed." If I understand the math correctly, power law distributed distributions arise when there is some cascade effect, for example cities where the biggest cities also grow the fastest. Investment income would be another example - the more money you have, the faster it grows. That to me suggests that what happens is that small conflicts can grow into larger conflicts, and more importantly the larger the conflict the more likely it is to grow bigger. I don't know what that says about how we ought to minimize the risk of big wars - except maybe to resolve them peacefully while they are still small conflicts.

<comment><USER6> Although - now I'm going to contradict myself. Things like skyscraper heights also follow a power law distribution, and those don't grow in any meaningful sense. So I guess I don't know what that means. But if anyone else does, please enlighten me.</comment></comment>


Ephemerisle Documentary. Neal Stephenson's Raft meets Burning Man. - <AUTHOR> http://vimeo.com/8546410 <comment><AUTHOR> Ephemerisle festival is an event from the Seasteading Institute, designed as a first step to help learn about and promote creating floating communities. The Seasteading Institute is a non profit with the goal of promoting autonomous ocean communities as a means to new social and political structures.</comment>


Having lots of debt at a young age "is the new normal." - <AUTHOR> https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/venessawong/millennials-average-debt-2019 <comment><USER2> My parente went into a lot of debt at my age, but they were able to file bankruptcy and walk away from it after living the high life for 20 years.

I don't have any student loans anymore but anyone in their 20s or 30s most likely doesn't have the same luxury my parents did.</comment>


Purity in D - <AUTHOR> http://klickverbot.at/blog/2012/05/purity-in-d/ <comment><USER2> I was disappointed by the '›Weak‹ Purity Allows for Stronger Guarantees' section. I expected an explanation of why weak purity might give stronger guarantees, but what I got was a set of reasons why weak purity is more practical for a compiler that can't handle FP optimizations. Where's the stronger guarantees?

<comment><USER3> When I read that section, it occurred to me that "weak purity" is like monads and "strong purity" is purity as we know it in the FP world. Then drawTriangle() become an action in some monad (I imagined a State one) and renderScene() is just a pure function using some monadic computations (doing something like evalState (drawTriangle ...)).

I don't know how to explain that without analogies to Haskell (which, I presume, author deliberately avoids), though.

<comment><AUTHOR> Yes, I deliberately tried to avoid using FP slang as to not scare away interested C++ programmers. This is also the reason why I referred to I/O »in the classical sense« instead of mentioning the m-word. ;)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> I am the author of the linked article – feedback and comments of any kind are very welcome!

<comment><USER3> There is an issue with quotes — they appear to be swapped (tiny screenshot here: <http://ompldr.org/vZHl4Mw>). I made a little check, it's the same with every font you specified in your CSS, so the problem must lie within your blog generator or something.

<comment><AUTHOR> In German, guillemets are actually only used like that – contrary to, for example, French. I got in the habit of using them almost exclusively, and usually enter them explicitly (most non-Windows keyboard layouts have them in a convenient location). If this is confusing to non-German readers, though, I suppose I should reconsider their use.

<comment><USER3> Oh, I didn't know that — thanks! But yes, to me it looked like I had some fonts wrong or something.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Show HN: Steemwhale – 60ft lifesize whale on blockchain – send crypto for spout - <AUTHOR> https://steemwhale.io <comment><AUTHOR> I'm the maker, and listening to any of your questions here!

<comment><USER2> Awesome project! Why does it shoot water from the nose though, shouldn't it be shooting from the back?

<comment><USER3> No this is a sperm whale. It has different characteristics. It is not even centered actually. You can lookup the spermwhale and see that it has it spout / nose on his 'nose' actually :P

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> can it spray on people walking there?

<comment><USER3> haha . yes. When I recorded the video (see youtube vid in the bottom of the site) it actually sprayed a couple of times on us.

This depends on the wind however.</comment></comment>


ZeroCater (YC W11) Raises $1.5 Million For No-Hassle Office Lunches - <AUTHOR> http://techcrunch.com/2011/08/10/zerocater-raises-1-5-million-for-no-hassle-office-lunches/ <comment><USER3> Are administrative assistants either really expensive or ineffective at meal purchasing in the SF area? This seems like a tasty service and all, but back- of-envelope I would think it hard to compete with ~an hour a day of $15-20/hour labor. Especially since even with this service I still need to pay my admin a half hour for door open/setup/cleanup.

Unless this service is targeted mainly at companies that eschew personal assistant-style employment? I'll admit I've only run teams or worked at companies in the Seattle and Chicago area, where there is an abundance of "young liberal arts grads" to handle straightforward tasks.

I've never done the startup thing, so please feel free to correct me if C-levels are really handling this sort of work themselves (as the testimonials seem to hint).

<comment><USER4> The people ordering food usually also end up responsible for every other miscellaneous task, so are very happy to have someone take care of one of their least important, but most time consuming jobs. One of the most frequent reactions from new signups we see is a big sigh of relief.

The second issue is that someone responsible for ordering food part time isn't going to do it as well as someone who's concerned with nothing else. It's specialization of labor.

<comment><USER5> There's definitely a period in a startup where founders or management end up handling a lot of minor tasks like this, before hiring admin support staff. I personally would rather pay for services (garbage collection, catering, copier repair, etc.) vs. hiring an admin person to do this, because managing yet another employee (and one from a different background than engineers) adds stress to my life.

If I had a great candidate for admin/manager, maybe I'd consider it, but I could easily see getting to 20-30 employees before doing so.

<comment><USER3> That makes sense, and follows with my general experience: once your team reaches >= 8 people, there will always be one of them having a Major Life Issue (cancer, drugs, burnout, divorce, etc.) that will consume incredible amounts of your time too.

If you're stuck hiring them on your own (i.e. not part of a big company that has its own infra for hiring and training staff employees), several of my buddies who have started smaller companies swear by temp agencies. Quickly scan a few resumes, do a couple of chats, and then bring them onboard for a few weeks or a month in a try-before-you-buy role.

Also, if your admin does not _remove_ stress from your life, they're doing it wrong. Having had both decent and great admins, I can say that a great admin is an incredible enabler. Need your schedule to always have a three hour block of uninterrupted work time? Hate responding to urgent-but-unimportant crises that people always email you about? A professional, organized, and utterly ruthless admin is net positive w.r.t. your time and stress far more than they will ever be paid.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> They've been feeding me and my colleagues the last couple weeks and I gotta say: pretty awesome. Great variety of food and everything has been delicious. I crow about new food several times a week since they started, and I'm a pretty tough sell.

(And they've stopped asking for that goofy video audition requirement in all their job postings, so props to them for seeing the light.)

</comment><comment><USER7> Congrats Arram and Bill! I vividly remember the "Wave of Food" illustration from Demo Day. If that's not a reason to invest in a company, I don't know what is. (<http://i.imgur.com/umToE.jpg>)

<comment><USER8> I echo the congrats. However, the 'wave of food' was gluttonous and off- putting to me personally. It also features fried food and carbs, which seems to run counter to the healthier trends I've seen. But I'm way on the outside, so maybe i'm missing something.

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> I don't want lunch delivered. Lunch is time to _leave_ the office and socialize with team members I'm not working with all day.

Bill splitting is the service I want.

<comment><USER5> Also, food provided in-office is 100% deductible; meals outside are 50%.

Having great food available daily would be a nice hook to bring in open source dev partners, potential employees (especially passive-recruit candidates), potential clients, etc. I know I've gone to Google and Facebook meals on that basis.

<comment><USER10> Out of curiosity, how do you categorize expenses such that in-office food is covered? I've wondered this before with coffee (getting in-office coffee as deductible, whereas out at Starbucks is 50% at best). Would be interested to learn how you file these expenses for your taxes.

<comment><USER5> <http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p15b.pdf>

Basically if it's a "de minimis benefit" (generally, self-serve food is always included unless it's absurdly luxury), you're fine.

Serving it on business premises seems to be the key factor, at a dedicated cafeteria.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> What is the process for employees like? Does food just show up or is there some kind of website / email that everyone gets before lunch?

<comment><AUTHOR> Employees get to see a webpage on zerocater.com that has all of their upcoming menus for the next couple of weeks. On the day the food is delivered, they can use that page to rank the food and comment on it. That feedback is critical to us because we use it to figure out what to order in the future (I tell people we're "Pandora for food").

<comment><USER12> It would be great to have a premium option where an office can also order some flowers/plants to be delivered as well.

<comment><USER13> it would also be great to have new senior programmers delivered with the skills that are needed upon request - of course as a premium service.

In all seriousness, let's keep in mind that startups need to remain _focused_ on their _core business_.

<comment><USER12> Well, sure, I agree that they need to focus on their core service; in this case - delivering "lunch" -- which by my comment _could_ be inclusive of accompanying floral arrangements.

I.E. you order a zerocatered meal for a team/exec briefing/whatever - <USER2> choose to add some arrangement along with it.

Personally - I have been wanting the netflix of floral delivery for some time at my home. There are already services that do whole corporate plant service, but this is a much broader scope (e.g. showing up regularly to service said plants). Adding simple floral arrangements to an already delivered product is not such a far reach from their core service - there would be no service - just delivery.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> We use ZeroCater at our SF office. It really does make choosing what to get a lot easier.

</comment><comment><USER15> These guys have been providing us lunches at Blekko and we are a lot happier.

[edit: dang I suck at tenses]

<comment><USER16> that said, they need to fix their portioning. We typically get wayyyy too much food. and our vegetarian options are always out of whack with the number of vegetarian's we've listed.

<comment><USER4> Feel free to send us an email any time: hello at zerocater

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> I'm curious what percentage of their customer base is startups and what percentage is other types of businesses (ie, businesses they'll encounter in other markets than the valley).

Will they be signing up all the large ad agencies on Michigan Ave when they hit Chicago? Or is this more for the 10-40 person "in the know" startup?

<comment><USER13> I suspect that their goal is obviously to expand into other major metro markets like Chicago and NYC. Thus the funding.

But, you have a good point, being, many companies in the NYC/Chicago area already have very defined pre-arranged catering avenues in place. From the trained executive assistant with a drawer full of menus, to the executive dining room, to the go-to deli on the bottom floor, to the local pizza delivery place. These guys certainly have their work cut out for them with regards to penetrating this market and expanding. I would not be surprised if they are only working the startup ecosystem in San Francisco. It's a good start though.

<comment><USER17> Exactly my thoughts. My hunch is these guys are surviving solely from the saturation of startups in San Francisco and the surrounding area.

I'm curious what happens when they venture out into "the real world". Seems to me like a company that survives only in the bubble of the valley. Cool idea nonetheless.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> I'm not in SF, so maybe this is ignorance on my part, but how common is it for employers to provide lunch for their employees? Is that a Thing now? A few years ago, it was a big part of news stories about Google, how they have in- house chefs and lunch is free to all employees and all that, and that seemed like a big deal at the time. Has "lunch for employees" trickled down to small companies and startups? What % of startups do that? And is there a split between VC-backed startups and bootstrapping startups regarding who does/doesn't do it?

ZeroCater seems like a good solution to that problem ... I just had no idea there were so many companies doing that. Would love to hear experiences of people here.

</comment><comment><USER18> Do people really think working on problems like this is impactful? Guessing the guys running this are pretty smart engineers, bums me out that they are making "solving the office lunch problem" their big hack.

<comment><USER19> This is only the starting point. If such a company were able to hit critical mass, think about the potential they could have feeding residents and helping healthcare monitering. Perhaps even disrupting the concept of needed super markets. The possibilities are endless beyond whats on the surface

<comment><USER18> I'm not sure the "possibilities are endless". At best they are lowering transaction costs between ppl selling food and ppl buying food. Feels like there are bigger problems out there.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> Would anyone from ZeroCater care to comment on whether there were additional difficulties in raising money due to the recent stock market crash?

<comment><USER21> I would guess that they almost certainly had all of their commits before the past week and have just announced them now. Too early to see the effects of the crash on VC's in funding announcements imo

<comment><USER4> This is correct. We closed the round more than a month ago.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> For those who may have missed a great discussion on "lunch at the office" a few months ago from a Joel Spolsky blog post:

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2494398> <http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2011/04/28.html>

</comment><comment><USER23> An interesting solution from Campaign Monitor solves this problem for them and was coded by an intern...

[http://www.campaignmonitor.com/blog/post/2871/how- campaign-m...](http://www.campaignmonitor.com/blog/post/2871/how-campaign- monitor-does-lunch/)

</comment><comment><USER24> Am I the only person who brings lunch from home? Eating out every day gets expensive.

<comment><AUTHOR> Individual employees don't pay for zerocater, their employers do.

If you do a quick back-of-the-envelope calculation involving the hourly wage of a software engineer (for example), and the amount of time saved by not going out for lunch then it's a no-brainer for most employers to do this.

</comment></comment><comment><USER25> This is awesome, but how do they deal building with crazy security. Would I still have to go all the way down to the building messenger center to pick up the food?

</comment><comment><USER26> If you are in the Portland or Denver areas, check out <http://d-dish.com/> for both personal and catering needs.

</comment><comment><USER27> This seems like a perfect company for the culture of SF. I'm not sure how well it will scale to other cities though.

</comment><comment><USER28> Congrats Arram!

</comment><comment><USER29> Congrats Zain!

</comment><comment><USER30> "Lunch is for wimps." - Gordon Gekko

</comment><comment><USER31> What distinguishes this from waiter.com? So far it sounds like the primary distinction is "you don't get to directly choose what you get every day", which is a big loss.

<comment><USER32> But at the same time kind of a big win. I spend a nontrivial amount of time on picking my food on waiter.com. We also have 2 offices that people switch between, and people order to the wrong office all the time. That would be a little problematic for ZeroCater too (we'd have to be able to give them a sense of how many people will be where on a given day, and a sense of where the people with diet restrictions are going to be), but it's a little more flexible.

<comment><USER31> But the day ZeroCater misunderstands a dietary restriction, or just shows up with something I can't stand, there would be a big problem.

I intentionally order only things I know I'll like and can eat so I don't go through the day hungry and pissed off. The model of "tell us when you don't like something" might eventually approach something semi-reliable, but in the mean time there's going to be a lot of wasted food and low blood sugar.

<comment><USER32> That's true, but nothing's perfect. Once so far I have misread a (somewhat- confusing) menu item and ordered meat by mistake.

But that's probably a little rarer than a failure of ZeroCater's model to satisfy every person, and I came away from my Waiter.com error primarily blaming myself, whereas since ZeroCater claims they can satisfy everyone without having you explicitly choose, it's really their fault when they fail at that

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER33> If this isn't the peak of the bubble, I don't know what is.

<comment><USER34> Funny, of all the recent YC companies I've been reading about lately, this one makes the most sense to me.

They provide a real service that lots of people (judging from these comments) seem to appreciate, which is easily monetizeable. In addition, I can see some great economies of scale here, including cheaper food due to mutually beneficial deals with restaurants.</comment></comment>


SimCity on Mac is 'totally unplayable' - <AUTHOR> http://www.tuaw.com/2013/08/29/simcity-on-mac-is-totally-unplayable/

<comment><USER2> I am really curious about what kind of internal turmoil is going on at the studio if an AAA title is shipped with this kind of quality despite numerous delays. Since they delayed it a few times, it's obvious that they KNEW the technical challenges and the issues it had, but somehow in the last minute the team went "Screw it, we'll do it live" and shoved it out of the door.

If brand new iMacs and Retina Macbooks are having problem with the game, it's obvious that the dev team just gave up towards the end (or were told to do so), since I doubt all of those problems escaped QA's attention.

This is EA and Maxis we are talking about here, not some indie studio being funded by Kickstarter. Either all of the competent staffs (QA, Eng, PMs) left one way or another or people just didn't give a fuck anymore in the end.

Considering the PR fiasco from the PC version earlier this year, this screw up is so atrocious that I'd more likely to believe they accidentally shipped the wrong build or something...</comment>


Mars is hard - <AUTHOR> http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/aerospace/space-flight/mars-is-hard

<comment><USER2> Frankly, I don't care if it _is_ hard. Nothing worth doing is easy.

<comment><USER3> The question is, is a human Mars mission worth doing? Wouldn't a series of missions building an infrastructure to use metal and water-rich asteroids do more to establish a permanent human presence in space?

Given a fixed amount of time and research money, what provides the best return for the next four decades?

<comment><USER2> It's pretty hard to quantify things like inspiration - and I personally think that's a huge argument in favor of going to Mars. There's also the insane technological advancement factor to consider. Apollo led to hundreds (if not thousands) of advances in all kinds of fields of technology. It's hard to put a price tag on that, too.

<comment><USER3> Can you name a dozen of those hundreds (if not thousands) of advances? If you can, try to identify those which wouldn't have happened without Apollo. The harsh truth is there aren't any.

We've tried the 'get something great as a result of spin-offs' route before. It disappoints every time. Why are people advocating it again with a human 'flags and footprints' Mars mission? Why don't we instead direct resources towards an inspiring goal which delivers something concrete?

Given the choice, I would much rather today have a permanent LEO infrastructure of a dozen privately funded Skylabs (from those same tried-and- true Saturn V rocket parts) and cis-lunar tugs rather than the 'spin off' soon-to-be-retired Goldberg contraption of Shuttle.

<comment><USER4> I agree the main point of this. An important economic point that is often ignored is that anytime you take money by force and spend it on some grand project the gains or benefits to individuals has to be less than the costs, otherwise it could be done voluntarily. The net effect of these projects is to invest in technology or create things that the society either cannot really afford or for which there is insufficient demand at the time. It is true some technology may come sooner than what otherwise would have been the case but that just highlights the economic fallacy involved, and you can't point to what was _not_ developed to prove the case because the resources went into the Apollo project or whatever, one can only understand it via principles. This is true regardless of the generally acknowledged inefficiencies of gov't projects, which only makes matters worse.

<comment><USER5> And ever more tragic: This fallacy was (or is) often used in favour of wars.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> excellent graphic linked in the article: <http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/image/79352>

<comment><USER7> A red color doesn't mean failure BTW. It means Russia, it's just Russia has not had much luck with Mars.

<comment><USER8> Russia/Soviet Union had some decent success with Venus though which is supposedly more difficult.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> _By 1989, NASA estimated such a trip would come to half a trillion dollars_

I admit the idea of going to Mars is very exciting, but honestly, is this where we want to be spending our money?

<comment><USER10> I loathe the "stimulus", but if our taxes are to be spent in such sums anyway, I think that the result should make a difference.

Replace all high emissions cars with electrics or hybrids.

Pay off _all_ mortgages in the country, while passing an amendment that forbids the Feds from ever doing it again (otherwise, the possibility that they'll do it again will distort the market even more than it would anyway).

Set up prizes for all kinds of space or research goals, like landing on the moon, landing on Mars, first private individual on the moon, first full GWhr beamed from a solar power satellite, first tonne of machinable superconducter at room temperature, first, tenth, and thousandth tonne returned to earth from an asteroid, etc. This has the added bonus that tax money is only spent if someone makes it.

Or something else. But something that matters, rather than just paying people to do a little more of what they're already doing, here or there, where they went to school with the program administrators or whatever.

<comment><USER5> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Availability_heuristic></comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: Which writers... - <AUTHOR>

..do you always read? That is, you read their books and articles and blog posts and tweets and so on.
Me: Malcolm Gladwell and Jonah Lehrer. <comment><USER2> Books: Milan Kundera, VS Naipaul, Orlando Figes

Essays/blogs/etc: Tim Keller, Matt Taibbi, and John Dolan (along with his pen- name Gary Brecher)</comment>


Facebook shareholders back proposal to remove Zuckerberg as chairman - <AUTHOR> https://www.reuters.com/article/us-facebook-shareholders/facebook-shareholders-back-proposal-to-remove-zuckerberg-as-chairman-idUSKCN1MR2GY <comment><USER2> Previous Discussion => [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18239946](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18239946)</comment>