Ask HN: My startup has concealed from me that it raised funding. What to do? - <AUTHOR> I'm a founding engineer at a startup and just found out that the founders have concealed an investment from me leaving me with a potential tax bill on $10,000s of income that I had not received.
I did my best to keep my story within 2000 words but I couldn't shorten it anymore without leaving off important details so I posted the full text here: http://pastebin.com/xLLNUF0H
I feel so disgusted and cheated right now. I had worked for this company for almost 3 years doing everything possible to maximize its chance of success: from working overtime to meet deadlines to answering support emails on weekends, and now I find out that they've kept this investment (and the tax implications that go along with it) hidden from me for over a year. I'm left thinking that they concealed it so they wouldn't have to give me a raise, but I am more concerned about the tax implications of these shares. I had to leave work early yesterday when I found out about this and I don't think I'll be able to come in to work today. What should I do? Should I confront the founders about this? Is there any use in contacting a lawyer? <comment><USER3> Well despite the fact that this is very stressful, I would start with the maxim that one should employ Hanlon's Razor[0] and not ascribe to malice what can adequately be explained by stupidity.

It's quite possible, nee probable, that they are just disorganized and genuinely thought you already knew, or that it didn't matter, or otherwise were clueless or inexperienced enough to not really understand what had happened.

I think it would be a mistake to get into it with them on a war footing. Early stage companies like this make mistakes of this kind all the time, and it's not necessarily a sign that the whole ship is doomed. If they have the ability to get revenue and investment and pay salaries and whatnot it's possible that there's a positive outcome in the future.

I would schedule an initial consultation with a lawyer who deals with these kinds of things. Get a referral and schedule an hour or so to go over it with them. They'll probably charge you a few hundred bucks, or even waive it if you have a close friend or existing client of theirs refer you.

Sit down with a lawyer, bring the docs, and explain what happened and get some sense of the implications. Then approach the founders with the attitude that it must be an administrative mistake or misunderstanding. If they are evasive or otherwise shady that should become clear quickly. If they are genuinely concerned and want to help fix the problem then great. But personally I wouldn't blow up your relationship with everyone until you have a better idea which of those two scenarios is more descriptive.

[0] [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon's_razor](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon's_razor)

<comment><USER4> OP should consider this a good lesson (and one that I learned going through an acquisition); unless you're a founder, you cannot control "the deal".

Unless you're in the room when the chips are (re)divvied up, you have to trust someone else to advocate for you. And after tolling away for a few years, trading your life for the promise of a better future through being acquired, ultimately you end up in a shitty position.

Don't be diluted in thinking the founders will "take care of everyone".

Your only leverage in the end is to walk away (and try and blow up the deal or company, if you're that critical). And if you do walk and they don't stop you and counter offer, you probably weren't going to get anything anyway.

<comment><USER5> > and try and blow up the deal or company

Never do that. Not only does it create bad blood, which could only be bad for you in the long run, it may also leave you open to a lawsuit.

The business world is often about shoveling shit. People who always get their revenge tend to have no friends and lots of burned bridges.

<comment><USER4> >Not only does it create bad blood, which could only be bad for you in the long run, it may also leave you open to a lawsuit.

Don't buy this fud. There's nothing illegal about walking away from a shitty deal. Whatever your motives just plainly state "this deal no longer makes sense for me".

If you're a great engineer, then have some self respect, and walk away from a shitty deal. Go somewhere else where they respect the people that build value.

And if you aren't a great engineer, you weren't going to get anything anyways, so go somewhere that will raise your game and better positions you for the future.

>People who always get their revenge tend to have no friends and lots of burned bridges

There's a big difference between being bitter on a daily basis vs coming to terms with your past three years that are basically only going to net you an extra 100K (which you could easily get hustling in a few months consulting in SV).

Think deliberately about what you're toiling away for. An extra 20K? An extra 100K? REALLY? All the extra weekends for years is worth that? Get mad at yourself. Demand more. And if they deny you, walk, and position yourself better next time.

<comment><USER5> First, I was against doing intentional harm. I absolutely think s/he should walk away, but making enemies doesn't solve any problems and certainly could create some.

Second, you seem not to understand the difference between "breaking the law" and "getting sued". Intentionally screwing over a company can be both legal and lead to a lawsuit that you end up losing.

<comment><USER4> 1) You are critical to the company's success yet..

2) They don't want to compensate you to your liking..

3) So you walk. Yes, this is meant to intentionally hurt the company with the only lever that you have (your skill set and institutional knowledge).

You working for this company costs you opportunities elsewhere.

You're convincing yourself to stay because it "doesn't solve any problems and certainly could create some." Your vague fears are holding you back.

But if we get rid of these vague fears, here's what we know is certain:

1) You're critical to the success of the company.

2) But you're not going to be compensated to your liking

3) And you're costing yourself other opportunities by sticking around.

Quit being scared, look them straight in the eye, and say "I am walking unless I get X,Y,Z." If they say no, then kindly resign and don't look back. Bring on the lawsuit (highly doubtful).

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> So if it went down exactly as you said, you can relax, you don't have to worry about any extra bills to pay.

Two things that are important here are that the "official" valuation of the stock is what company counsel said it was, and if they had changed the valuation of the stock, unless there is only 'preferred' stock (unlikely) your common (likely) stock hasn't changed value at all.

When you did the last stock exercise if the CEO mislead you on the price it is their problem not yours.

Finally, and this is really really important, when you are not publicly traded the stock can be worth anything you say it is worth. The 409a process is one which allows the company to have a way of valuing the common stock but it doesn't come into play, generally until you have enough investors to make the calculation significant.

</comment><comment><USER7> There is so much misinformation in this thread.

I would consider that perhaps your facts are wrong. Perhaps the first investor did a convertible note. Perhaps he did a loan.

First thing I would do is calmly talk to the CEO directly and tell him what the CFO told you and why it makes you concerned.

There's no reason to be disgusted (yet) from reading your pastebin.

And even if it's true, then you simply need to ask the company to cover your tax burden and then move forward with getting back to work.

This is not that big of a deal.

</comment><comment><USER8> You shouldn't be in bad shape tax-wise. I don't know Canadian tax law - but in the US, you only get taxed when you sell the shares. Capital gains would not be recognized if you exercised the options and held onto the shares.

Since you have been exercising your options - you are a shareholder in the company (or a member depending on the structure) and I would imagine that the company's operating agreement would require them to disclose any funding rounds to you. I'd get a hold of that if you can.

It sounds like you're working with amateurs, so I'd pass it by a lawyer to determine the real impact on you - but I wouldn't flip out until you get the entire picture. They may be planning on diluting the hell out of you or they may just not know what the hell they're doing.

I'd say it's too early to tell.

<comment><USER9> > Capital gains would not be recognized if you exercised the options and held > onto the shares.

That's not exactly accurate in the US. You need to pay income tax - <USER2> capital gains - on the spread between the strike price and the fair market value. Since the company is not publicly traded, the fair market value needs to be assessed. The IRS has rules on how to do this, but many companies use independent third party auditors to do this, though an early stage company probably would not do this.

Once an investment has been made, a fair market value has been established, and you need to report the difference between the strike price and the investment price as income when you exercise options. Capital gains applies when you later sell the stock for a gain.

Edit: Though I should point out, this is only for non-qualified stock options. If the options are tied to performance metrics, for instance, this may not apply.

Edit 2: See here for a discussion of this: [http://www.investopedia.com/articles/optioninvestor/07/esoab...](http://www.investopedia.com/articles/optioninvestor/07/esoabout.asp)

<comment><USER10> he can't pay income tax if he's never received the income.

"I will be left with a tax bill on $10,000s of additional "income" that I never received"

<comment><USER7> Actually, and unfortunately, in the US, that's how it works.

His paper gains are taxed. It's not quite "income" but it's taxed that way.

<comment><USER11> That actually depends on if the options were ISO's (where you'd only have to account for the spread in AMT calculations) or non-Quals where yes you'd have to pay regular tax on the spread at exercise time.

If he's really a founding engineer though he should have filed an IRS 83B election and basically paid close to zero tax on all this

<comment><USER7> Correct.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> Yes, you have been cheated quite seriously. Consult a lawyer immediately, especially since the (Canadian) tax filing deadline is soon. Do not press the issue with the founders until you've received thorough legal counsel.

Another problem, however, is that even if you do confront them and get to claim what's rightfully yours, you're probably going to be asked to leave the company. It's worth noting this as you plan ahead.

Anyway, I'm very sorry to hear this. That's disastrous.

<comment><USER13> > going to be asked to leave the company

I think this is moot. Such a disaster would indicate bad shit is happening. Lawyer up asap.

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> Don't create any problems, specifically don't:

1\. Stop going in to work (at least without a good reason such as health). 2\. Confront anyone, at all. 3\. Degrade your work (in as much as you can help yourself). 4\. Talk about it, even here or elsewhere.

All of these things will likely be brought up if this goes to court. Don't damage your image.

Recognize you cannot trust your employer, so no point in confronting them or asking anything. Try to be all smiles and don't give anything away. You don't want them to start digging for information on their side.

Get a lawyer. I hope you can afford that. It will be hard to find one but persist.

Write down all details you can remember right away with dates and times, including overtime hours, special projects, extras you performed, reviews of your work and performance, comments that may matter, copies of your email, etc.

Good luck sir... Apologies this happened.

</comment><comment><USER15> First: this situation sucks. :(

Second: Yes, consult a tax attorney. Your own attorney, not theirs. Don't talk to the founders. You need to know where you're at first. Legal500 could be a decent starting point: [http://www.legal500.com/c/canada/tax](http://www.legal500.com/c/canada/tax).

It could very well be that they disregarded some security rule (i.e. notification of a capital increase or something like that) and can now be sued for your situation (in the event it's too late to fix things).

One thing to consider if you get a capital gains tax loss is that you usually can offset it against other gains. Do you know if you can carry that loss forward in Canada, or do you need to use it in the same year?

Given an S&P fund tends to return around 7% (averaged) per annum, you can actually use it over several years if you can carry forward the loss indefinitely.

Third: Time to look for a new job.

<comment><USER16> > Do you know if you can carry that loss forward in Canada, or do you need to > use it in the same year?

"You can use a net capital loss to reduce your taxable capital gain in any of the three preceding years or in any future year."

[http://www.cra- arc.gc.ca/E/pub/tg/t4037/t4037-e.html#P2313_1...](http://www.cra- arc.gc.ca/E/pub/tg/t4037/t4037-e.html#P2313_116906)

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> There are legitimate reasons to exercise early, if you think the business will be sucessful.

1\. You avoid the tax issues the OP faced if you exercise at a lower valuation.

2\. It's also more tax efficient if you plan to hold the shares or wait a few years to sell.

It sounds like your bosses are ethically challenged. With 3%, you are an employee and not a cofounder.

Instead of suing them, consider writing it off as a loss and learning experience and move on. As a minority shareholder, they can dilute you out of your shares and you would have no recourse.

<comment><USER18> I can't imagine writing this off. He's been seriously wronged, to the tune of quite a lot of money. The raise alone (promised in writing, never delivered) is probably substantial, considering it's been about a year since it should have happened. The tax issue seems less clear, but I have a hard time imagining you wouldn't be liable if you hid important investment details from a shareholder and therefore caused him a huge tax liability.

In any case, it certainly seems worth talking to a lawyer to see if there's a case, and if there is a case it's absolutely worth pursuing. If you let people get away with this behavior, you just encourage more of it.

<comment><USER17> It doesn't really pay to win $50k in a lawsuit paying $30k on legal fees, plus the years it takes for the legal system to run its course.

A lawsuit is a lot of stress.

There's no guarantee he'd win.

The corporation can be bankrupt when/if he wins.

You can't keep working there after you sue them or your lawyer sends them a threat letter.

There's no point continuing to work with dishonest people. Given their dishonesty, the shares are probably worthless.

<comment><USER18> You may be right, but he may also have an easy case. The point is, talk to a lawyer before deciding what to do. It could be that there is no case and pursuing this would be completely pointless. It could be that this is a complete slam-dunk for both damages and legal fees and it's completely worth doing. Or it could be somewhere in between, but he needs to know where he stands before deciding.

<comment><USER17> He needs an accountant more than a lawyer.

You can usually negotiate a payment plan. Plus, he gets a credit when he sells or writes off the shares,

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> So you've been exercising options and therefore own stock - don't companies have a legal requirement to inform existing stockholders when an investment happens?

</comment><comment><USER20> You should talk to a CPA [edit: sorry, Canada - CGA], not an attorney, first.

You are upset about something that might not be an issue. You haven't mentioned what type of stock options you have (in the US there are ISO and NQSO, and - upon a quick check - it appears there are different types in Canada as well, with differing tax treatment). Omitting that detail in addition to the ... unusual way in which you exercised them makes me think you may have more of an academic familiarity with the process.

It would have been nice if the founders told you about the investment, but your reaction is completely out of proportion with what happened. Lawyering up [edit: distinct from a consultation] will be the equivalent of ending your career track with them and burning your bridges entirely.

And really, if the market value of your options has increased, consider the positive side of that news if you own 3%.

</comment><comment><USER21> Offtopic:

First time I read this topic. I didn't read the pastebin, just the comment and was wondering how someone was a founder and not be included in the valuations/investment side of things, or at least informed.

Then I read the link. How is this consider a 'founding engineer'? Are people looking so much to be founders that they call themselves that even they are obviously employees (first one but still employee). He got a salary and generous (aha) stock options, that doesn't make him a founder one bit. Heck, I was offered equivalent equity at a start up just to serve as technical director and shape up their initial development team, so how in god's name is 3% something a 'founder' has?

</comment><comment><USER22> Wow. I know nothing about investment, VC's, convertible notes, etc...but the one thing I DO know is that if you're THIS hesitant to talk to your co- founders about company issues, your partnership is in trouble. Communication is key and asking HN about it is not going to help. Why even consider lawyering up when you're going on rumors and hearsay and haven't even given them the chance to explain?

<comment><USER23> "Co-founders???" "Partnership???"

If there's one thing this event makes clear, he's hired help.

</comment></comment><comment><USER24> The best approach is to go directly to the founders and ask them to help you. Literaly use those words. Such an approach makes them stake their integrity and avoid hostility. Ask them for assistance. Best way to resolve a conflict. Keep calm, talk with the people involved and voice your concerns directly. Be cool, don't act frantic. Ask every possible question, and tell them how it made you feel, do not keep you thoughts hidden, level with them. The most important - be patient and cool. Find out everything you can. It will become clear quickly, either you're being screwed or there's been a mistake. Then you can choose a course of action. Even if you're being screwed, act cool be patient and firm. Deal with it professionally.

</comment><comment><USER25> I'm hung up on the fact that you are exercising your options. Why? If the options are set to expire that quickly then something else is amiss as well. Generally you exercise options only when you intend to sell or leave the company and would lose those options. From what you described, you gave no reason for exercising the options.

I'd speak with the founders and enquire why they never executed the agreement, that is the raise that was conditional on getting funded. From a contract point of you, you should be eligible to receive that money.

From a trust point of view you can no longer trust these individuals. Without trust in a small organization I don't see the point in sticking around.

<comment><USER26> Your assumption is incorrect regarding the reasons for exercising options. Early exercise of options often garners positive tax benefits for the optionee.

<comment><USER25> That's a good point. What I left unstated, and what I was wondering was if this individual was given guidance by the founders to exercise his options. Thereby effectively reducing his salary further, when he already stated that his salary was an issue of contention. Something I'd be guarded about.

However, you are right, if this company succeeds, he saves some money on taxes by owning stock early.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> I can give you a good recommendation for a lawyer that I've used in the past. I don't want to post his name here, since the primary reason I like him is that he doesn't over-bill or charge too much, but his work is pretty good. The way he does this is by refusing to meet in person or other time wasters like random coffees. Other lawyers are better for networking, but if you just need startup related paperwork done email me (even anonymously) and I'll do an introduction.

He works out of Toronto.

</comment><comment><USER28> This is my personal experience. So take it as a sample of one.

A CTO, a decade younger to me, sought my advice on a similar situation - Founder-CEO divvied up equity in new and unfair ways without telling the CTO. The CTO wanted to raise hell, and take his loyal team members with him and basically handicap the company.

I advised him against doing this.

My view is - Even an unfair portion can mean real (but reduced) value, only if the company succeeds. And to that end, a rational angle will be to not act in a way, that damages value.

I told him to let his displeasure be known and leave but with his calm intact. And whatever, he had to do, meditate, jog, or whatever, to bring a calm mind to the table, he should do it.

He resigned, told the team that he built, that his initial pitch about the company doing interesting things are still true (which he truly believed), but he was leaving.

Fast forward a year and half, the company got sold for two-digits (Million USD), and he got a handsome payout, and the founders apologized.

He still wonders if the outcome would have been the same if he had acted in a way that damages the company.

Your first responsibility is to your peace and calm. Abstract yourself out of the deal, a business deal at that. Not worth your angst.

</comment><comment><USER29> You are now faced with a number of decisions, namely: financial, emotional, moral and a business decision in general.

On the financial front, the decision is easy to remedy, if the other founders are willing. Ideal scenario is (a) Your 3% equity is fully-vested (b) 3% equity cannot be further diluted (c) you get retrospective compensation and (d) You get another good raise.

Morally, you have been wronged. It is tempting to take the high ground and take full offensive on principal alone (fight) or cut all ties (flight). But a moral victory won't last long when you need to find a new job, when you realise your stake is gone or if the company gets a big exit 2 years down.

Emotionally, you have every right to be upset and you'll need to find a way to deal with it. My own two cents is, "don't be a wuss" or anywhere near that frame of mind--you'll come out stronger and smarter, whatever happens.

In terms of making a value-judgement business decision, your best outcome is that things get reconciled and you put this all behind yourselves, they apologise, you build a rapport with them and have discussions on how this can be avoided in the future. You may need to highlight to them all that you have given to this company and you are willing to reconcile if they are. You should probably not go in to work for 3-4 days (I am presuming they know you are upset and why) and wait for them to contact you during this time. If they contact you and are showing any signed of reconciliation your conversation should be about (a) how they can make things right financially (all 4 points above) and (b) how to avoid this in the future so that the company can have a strong moral standing. During this time, you should prepare for the worst and talk to a lawyer with the correct expertise.

</comment><comment><USER30> Given the amount of money involved, the potential damage to your career, and the possibility that you will have deadlines related to tax returns/payments coming up after which you might not be able to fix some of this, I would suggest you do the following, concurrently:

1\. Find an accountant.

2\. Find a lawyer.

3\. Keep written notes of everything, including copies of any relevant electronic communications and details of anything significant that was said to you verbally or on a call, by whom, and when.

4\. _Possibly_ start recording any future calls, but check the legality of doing so in your jurisdiction and any notice requirements first. (Don't ask the Internet, ask your lawyer.)

5\. Don't talk to anyone at work about what you're doing until you've received proper professional advice.

Make sure the accountant and lawyer are yours, not the company's. Their advisors will have a conflict of interest and can't/shouldn't advise you personally as well. In any case, there is a possibility that the company lawyers and/or accountants have committed serious breaches of professional ethics and/or crimes here.

Make sure all your records are completely under your control, so if they kick you out of their electronic systems and the building at a moment's notice you still have all your evidence.

And from a practical point of view, don't assume malice or that this will end badly, because it may well just have been a naive but innocent screw-up, but do assume that whatever happens you _might_ need another job by the end of this process and plan accordingly just in case.

And obviously don't post any more details publicly.

</comment><comment><USER31> When in doubt, it is best to ask an Attorney. It was a good idea to ask the company lawyer but you cannot always take their word as their job is to tell you what they want you to hear in the best interest of the company. The information might have been withheld from you as you were not a C-Level executive or similar or higher in the company.

When joining a company if you are a founder always insure the titles are correct as they do make a difference even if you are a founder. If you are not a C-Level executive, apart of the board or an investor the groups under them will always be the last to find out what is going on. If your in the C-Club you are always in the mailing group list for all the important meetings and are expected/invited to all of them. To be honest though, it appears you were left out because you were not family and they probably just considered you as just an engineer that they gave some stock too and not really privileged to the company inner workings or financial activities.

</comment><comment><USER32> Looks like there is plenty of good what-to-do advice already, so I'll just give some how-to-do advice:

Use the Teddy Roosevelt tactic of speak softly but carry a big stick (you already have one, since you're the engineer and the product is on your shoulders). As in, hint to them that you have sought legal counsel and that, if worse comes to worse, you wouldn't mind sudo rm -rf the entire code base. Be sure to be in the passive tone and say things like, "I had no choice but to be forced to seek advice from counsel", "this project means more to me than my life, and it saddens me greatly to see you guys do this to me", "please don't force me to take all time and effort I've put into this and go away forever", "I want to be working on fixing this and building a future, than crying at home and writing bitter memoirs", etc.

In general when speaking to them, highlight the fact you're the victim and (in the words of 4chan) the betafag. This is because you people are already in a highly emotional confrontation, and if everyone gets their backs up, chances are everyone except the lawyers will lose money (also, lawyers don't do anything except charge and tell you to settle, so you can't depend on them). The point is to act nice, but hint between the lines the lifeline of this business as well as the reputations of everyone involved is in your hands.

If the founders give in or compromise to your demands (which they should if you act like a reasonable human being who they have hurt and not an aggressive asshole out for revenge), let it all be water under the bridge - the founders have, no doubt, learned their lesson from this also and will improve in the future. But if they don't, don't sudo rm -rf the entire repo, instead, just write up your story, publish on HN, and go find work elsewhere (there is no sense in throwing good money after bad).

<comment><USER33> Threatening to ruin the business is not 'seaking softly', nor is it likely to end in the best outcome.

</comment></comment><comment><USER34> You have every right to feel disgusted and cheated among other things but don't assume those feelings to be true.

However hard it might be, keep your mind clear and free of things that might upset you. Remove yourself from the circumstance mentally as if you were advocating on a friend's behalf. Don't let your emotions cloud your judgement. Sometimes you can become so jaded that you manufacture self-fulfilling prophecies.

With a clear head, exercise every option possible. I'd absolutely contact a lawyer and _plan_ for a future that looks dramatically different but don't jump ship quite yet. Talk with your legal advisers about what the best next steps are and carefully execute in conformance with their advice.

Figure out what's really going on but be prepared in every aspect possible (emotionally, financially, legally) for whatever might be around the next corner. Don't get caught on your heels.

Best luck to you; it seems like a very unfortunate situation.

</comment><comment><USER35> Caveat: At least in the US and ASFAIK :-

As long as the company provided you with the properly assessed strike-price and FMV for your options at the time of exercise (upon which they become shares) I don't think the founders are obligated by law or otherwise to disclose any investments to their employees.

Even though you may be a founding engineer, officially you are still an employee. You are not on the board of directors and/or until the time of exercising options you were not a shareholder. Hence the company likely has no obligation to provide you with the details of the company's financials.

On the other hand if you exercised your options based on incorrect FMV the company provided then the additional tax burden would not be your fault but I am not sure in your situation what recourse you have. As others may have suggested your lawyer should be able to answer that.

</comment><comment> at-fates-hands The best course of action is to just go along with it while you get legal council. The more information you can glean while you're working there will only help strengthen your case. If you simply lawyer up and confront the owners, they'll go into bunker mode, fire you and then lawyer up themselves.

Act normal, and continue to work and essentially collect as much as evidence you can. You can drop hints, talk to people to find out what they know, etc.

The more you know, you can start to build a timeline and the implications that the company was effectively doing this behind your back for nefarious reasons. The more you have documented, the more you strengthen your case so when its time to actually threaten them with legal recourse, you'll have all the evidence you need while they'll be scrambling to build a defense.

Hope this turns out well for you!

</comment><comment><USER36> How does one go about finding an attorney in these situations?

</comment><comment><USER37> As you talk to legal counsel, you might possibly ask if you could get a tax shelter of some kind - it may not be feasible, but sometimes colleges will take donated real estate, for example, and the pay an annuity. So say a farmer had a piece of land, it increased to a million, and wants to avoid capital gains. In some cases donation of assets can result in doing something good for an institution but also getting ongoing income out of it.

Not sure it applies to capital gains with options/alternative minimum tax, but a tax lawyer might know.

If the tax bill does turn out to be like the price of a car, aside from taking some form of legal action, or if it fails or is not possible, then you can make payment arrangements, so that in theory, paying off the tax over time will maintain your ability to keep hold of the asset of the options.

</comment><comment><USER38> This might not be true in Canada, but in the States when investors buy preferred shares with a liquidation preference (even 1x non-participating) the common share valuation can still be quite low, even possibly still PAR. It's called a 'thin common' valuation strategy.

The general idea is, what is the value an investor would have paid without any of the additional rights granted by the preferred shares? Usually for early stage startups the answer is reasonably close to "$0" \-- the deal would never happen without the preference. The common shares are often still worthless, in reality and for tax purposes as well, after a Series AA and sometimes even after Series A.

</comment><comment><USER39> It seems that you are over-reacting. Ask nicely for a clarification about exactly what form that first investment took. if, as others pointed out, it was a convertible note, the stock price may not be impacted.

The fact that the company lawyer gave you the stock price indicates that they are not lying to you. So your taxes are probably fine. The only thing questionable is whether they should have given you the raise they promised in writing upon raising funding. If the amount they raised is small, I can see how the founders would think it's too low to trigger the raise.

So overall, everything may just be fine. By the way, you are not a co-founder, you are the first employee.

</comment><comment><USER40> I'd suggest talking to the cofounders in a non-accusatory manner. Startups are often disorganized and crazy and my guess is that the tax implications of your shares didn't even cross their minds because there are so many things going on. Also, what was the previous investment amount? If the previous investment is from a family or friend, my guess is that it's more of a bridge than an investment to keep the company afloat until true investment comes in (not enough to raise salaries). Either way, I'd give them the benefit of the doubt and not jump to conclusions too early before talking to them.

</comment><comment><USER41> Usually there's no need to exercise until you either leave the company or there is some sort of acquisition. As you found out, it can be problematic. Did you have a specific reason to do that?

You should definitely talk to a lawyer and an accountant. I could see an argument where your gains would be based on the company's 409A valuation, which can be significantly lower than what the last investors put in.

Based on what you wrote, I am not seeing a bad intention from the founders. seems like talking to them might be helpful.

<comment><USER42> Exercising the options makes it harder for him to get screwed later on. Also it can put you in a better position later on when you sell because you pay capital gains tax on the appreciation of the stock rather than ordinary income tax on the options.

This works because stock is considered an investment where as options are not considered investments (according to the tax code) and by holding the stock for more than a year it's considered "long term" and thus it gets classified as capital gains.

Ultimately I think it's a very smart thing to do especially if the company says that the stock is valued at $0.0001/share meaning that he can exercise 1000 shares per $1. The only time there's ever a downside to exercising early is if your strike price is substantially above $0/share meaning that it might cost a sizable sum. If it's free -- or nearly free -- to exercise, there's really no reason not to.

Unless of course you end up in a situation like this person has.

</comment></comment><comment><USER43> From the pastebin:

> _" contingent on raising target angel round of financing"._

My English is not good enough, so I'm not sure what this means, in particular "target".

If their "target" was $100.000 and they "only" raised $99.000, are they forced to give you the raise?

[Also, as other said, with a 3% you are not a "engineer founder", you are only a "engineer first employed". In any case, talk to a lawyer.]

</comment><comment><USER44> There should be a provision somewhere in your operating agreement that tax liability on unrecognized income will be paid by the company -- look for that. Additionally, if it's an LLC (or even a partnership), you can look for something called Profits Interest [http://www.gilaberttax.com/2014/01/14/profits-interest-vs- ca...](http://www.gilaberttax.com/2014/01/14/profits-interest-vs-capital- interest/)

</comment><comment><USER45> You should talk to a lawyer and/or accountant but this doesn't sound right at all. First, why are you buying your options? In he US you typically don't acquire them till you leave the company. I also don't see how you could rack up that sort of tax bill on a company and shares that cheap. You should also consider asking the "company" to help you out with the tax bill. This all just doesn't sound right.

</comment><comment><USER46> Link to details: [http://pastebin.com/xLLNUF0H](http://pastebin.com/xLLNUF0H)

Sorry to hear this.

</comment><comment><USER47> The tax problem is a common one and one of the major downsides to equity compensation in some situations. I've never heard of your particular situation where they didn't keep you informed of the valuation, though. That's fairly awful. I would be livid.

</comment><comment><USER48> Trust is one of the most important things in a start up. If this was an oversight that's one thing but if not, then walk away and get a better job. There are plenty out there. It's near to impossible to work effectively with people you don't trust.

</comment><comment><USER49> You should ask a lawyer before confront founders in order to know your options.

</comment><comment><USER50> Never, ever exercise options unless you have a market to immediately sell into OR otherwise have means to cover the potentially significant tax bill. This bit so many people in the dot-com boom. Options should be exercised and a portion of the received stock immediately sold to cover the tax which will be due on the exercised vs strike price. This is one reason that restricted stock in the US is MUCH better tax wise. In the US you can file an 83-b election and receive tax treatment on the basis at time of purchase, which for most startups is effectively 0.

NEVER EVER exercise options unless there is a real market in which you can realize value from the received stock directly UNLESS you REALLY know what you're doing (read: have money and a good accountant/lawyer).

</comment><comment><USER51> How do you conceal that in a small venture?

Sounds like you have a real communication problem in that company if something like this can happen and nobody has a clue.

</comment><comment><USER52> >leaving me with a potential tax bill on $10,000s of income that I had not received.

This is why I formed a C Corporation and not an LLC.

<comment><USER50> This really has nothing to do with it at all. In fact, an LLC can elect different forms of tax treatment, including being taxed as a C or S corporation.

</comment></comment><comment><USER53> Find a startup that treats engineers better. Get another gig and then consider your legal options.

</comment><comment><USER54> Just leave, do your own thing. Ask for 83b elections. Lawyer will cost more than your tax bill

<comment><USER23> " _Ask for 83b elections._ "

He's in Canada. As others have pointed out, at the very least he needs to engage an accountant to find out exactly what the tax implication are.

</comment></comment><comment><USER55> To those saying the OP shouldn't talk to the founders: why? I'm just curious.

<comment><USER56> By doing what they did they've already proven bad faith, talking to them now just warns them.

Better to seek legal counsel and have _them_ talk to the founders.

</comment></comment><comment><USER57> Do you really have any other options except to hire a lawyer?

</comment><comment><USER58> _Is there any use in contacting a lawyer?_

YES. YES. For the legal and accounting implications, you need to see people who understand them. I can't help you there. I know enough to know that you absolutely need a lawyer on your side (and don't fall into the trap of trusting the company's lawyer).

Career-wise, you need to move on. First, working with a pair of brothers or a couple or a father/son duo is generally a bad idea. Others' pre-existing relationships to or within power put you at a career disadvantage and you should avoid them when possible. Call that a lesson learned. Second, they obviously didn't see you as important enough to the company to know what's going on. Don't expect that to change. They've shown their hand; now show your back as you walk out the door.

That said, don't burn bridges and read Smushman's reply. Don't put anything in writing that you wouldn't want in the New York Times. (I know that that's cliche advice, but here it applies. Be extremely cautious, is what I'm saying.) There's a good chance that if you go into court, these guys will attack your character and reputation and the quality of your work, even if they've been cordial to this point. (I've seen startup breakups. They're ugly.) You can't prevent that but don't give them any ammo. Just find another job, give 2 weeks' notice, and move along.

Have someone check your references and report back. You'll be shocked at how willing "jilted" startup founders are to tarnish the reputations of exes who "quit on" them. Risk-averse corporations don't give bad references but cowboy founders who've never believed rules apply to them will say all kinds of shit. If you get a bad reference, you need to reach me offline (michael.o.church at gmail) and I'll tell you how to fix that up.

Don't stick around because of vesting unless you stand to gain millions. By all means, get what is rightfully yours based on the time that you have worked, but don't put your career at risk. These founders don't see you as the same class of human (most tech founders don't, because they have the investor- level connections and you don't) and that's not going to change.

Good luck. Above all, don't get angry and try not to hate your soon-to-be ex- bosses. It will just cloud your judgment. This is extremely common and a lesson that a lot of people have to learn the hard way. Given the circumstances, you'll probably get _some_ money out of it but it probably won't be anything close to what you want or think you deserve.

</comment><comment><USER59> Get a lawyer.

</comment><comment><USER60> Group everyone involved into a room, stand in front of the only exit, and calmly announce that nobody gets out until you receive an explanation. State the facts neutrally as you know them, and ask if they are accurate.

Actually let people out once they have explained. There is no reason to start kicking ass until you have a complete picture.

Once you have a complete picture, decide whether it's time to start kicking ass, and by what method.

<comment><USER61> I'm going to assume you're not being literal, but FYI, I sat on a kidnapping jury that was essentially this. Don't trap people, even for a moment; it's quite illegal.

<comment><USER60> I'm being literal. It works.

If you look at my posting history, you'll notice that I have little care for the laws of man. Do the right thing, always. If it's legal, good for the law. If it's illegal, break the law.

But break it properly, so that after you're done breaking it, it will take a long time for legalists to repair it and people have time to consider that they may be better off without it.

Now in this case, locking people in with you is excessive. But, making it clear that it's easier to say truth than to push you aside is appropriate.</comment></comment></comment>


Why YesGraph is Free and how that will change - <AUTHOR> https://www.yesgraph.com/pricing/ <comment><USER2> Link Bait: "We won't always be free"

<comment><AUTHOR> A subscription or something not based on attributed growth is really different. You can rely on YesGraph to have a positive ROI.

I'm literally just explaining what I tell customers.

</comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> My goal here is to be as transparent as possible. Hopefully the nontraditional pricing page will help people predict the future.</comment>


Current calendar week as Windows notification icon - <AUTHOR> https://sebdotnet.github.io/WeekTray <comment><USER2> An autoinstaller would be nice.

It's difficult to understand the preview. Perhaps a "before/after" compassion would be nice.

Also, the text is in German. Probably you will get more people with an English version. [Hi from Argentina.] How do you change the language? Does it use the current system language?

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for your feedback! Preview image as well as language have been adjusted. Installer has been put on the todo-list ;)

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> Good?</comment>


Now Open – AWS Africa (Cape Town) Region - <AUTHOR> https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/aws/now-open-aws-africa-cape-town-region/ <comment><USER2> You might be wondering "why Cape Town"? when it is right at the bottom of Africa, and the Southern African business hub is around Johannesburg, 1262 km / 784 miles away, and the next area that needs it is Lagos, Nigeria ( 4760 km / 2958 miles).

However I think there are some upsides to Cape Town, i.e.

1) AWS already has team and infrastructure there in Cape Town. It is a bit of a tech hub as well.

2) Submarine cables land in Cape Town - and they cannot in Johannesburg as it is far inland. By length of internet cable, Cape Town is actually closer than it seems to other parts of Africa. (a) a lot of the connectivity is around the coast, not so much over land.

There's probably a shorter ping time between Lagos and Cape Town than there is between Lagos and Johannesburg, despite the map distances being the other way around.

3) The further north you go from Cape Town, the closer you are to data centres in Europe. Cape Town is closest to exactly those parts that are worst served by Europe.

I have no inside knowledge as to AWS chose Cape Town, but those seem like likely factors.

a) [https://www.networkplatforms.co.za/information/our- network](https://www.networkplatforms.co.za/information/our-network)

<comment><USER2> Since this got popular and I can't edit any more:

1) Cape Town is not the Southernmost point of Africa, but it is very far south, and does contain the Cape of Good Hope, the Southwestern-most point. There are no population centres that are further south (Port Elizabeth is about the same latitude)

2) "...the next area that needs it is Lagos" ... and other central African cities such as Kinshasa and Accra. It might make sense if the second African AWS region is located hereabouts.

3) "... to data centres in Europe" ... and Middle-East, of course.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> I fell asleep reading this article and had a sort of half dream about a post- apocalyptic game in which you the amnesiac protagonist (whose initials are "AZ") gain consciousness aboard the _MV Dirona_ , and to discover yourself must awake an ancient demon, a task that actually involves finding and activating long-lost AWS data centers, solving progressively harder puzzles using only in-game clues, a voice conferencing service over which a mysterious and cantankerous but also very tired-sounding voice feeds you tidbits of cryptic information in a mocking and self-righteous tone, and the gradually collected pieces of a 20,000 page wiki printout titled "Cold Start of AWS Region (confidential)" that is only about 80% accurate for each site.

Along the way you discover you are very good at playing yourself at board games, which is a key mechanic, and your rating improves with each region successfully started.

Final boss is us-east-1 of course, after which the identity of the "voice", and the protagonist, are revealed.

Sort of like Myst, with an inverted Adam and Eve thing going on, and a lot more JSON.

</comment><comment><USER4> This is a great step-up for companies using AWS here in SA.

On a personal note, my latency for my personal site will drop from ~170ms (eu- west-2) to ~3ms!

<comment><USER5> Edit: I misread, disregard this post

Is us-west really the closest alternative (by ping) to South Africa? Naively I would have expected one in Europe to be closer.

<comment><USER6> You may have misread, they used to use EU-west-2 (London).

<comment><USER5> Oops... you're right. Thanks.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> They must have had to do extra work to cover for the failing South African electricity supply.

Awesome news as a South African. Guess Amazon's network blows away TENET? ;)

<comment><USER8> I'd imagine they'd stick the datacenter somewhere that doesn't get regularly blackouts. I don't think you'd want to use generators that often

<comment><USER2> > Africa (Cape Town) is the 23rd AWS Region, and the first one in Africa. It > is comprised of three Availability Zones

That means 3 data centres.

<comment><USER3> A common misconception, but no, AWS AZs are not DCs. A single AZ may be composed of multiple data centers[1], and a region may incorporate facilities that do not serve a public AZ[2], or that supply other capabilities[3].

[1] They'd be necessarily close together due to speed-of-light constraints.

[2] You may infer this from S3's triple-zone replication, which is still somehow magically fulfilled in regions that only have two public AZs.

[3] most obviously, Direct Connect.

<comment><USER9> To clarify, it means at least 3 DCs per AWS documentation.

[https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/global- infrastructure/regio...](https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/global- infrastructure/regions_az/)

<comment><USER10> Oh, very nice link, thanks!

> AZ's are physically separated by a meaningful distance, many kilometers, > from any other AZ, although all are within 100 km (60 miles) of each other.

This answers my previous question I guess

EDIT: well, actually, no. I wanted to know distance between DC in the same AZ :)

<comment><AUTHOR> If you really want to know, you can look it up on wikileaks

[https://wikileaks.org/amazon-atlas/map/](https://wikileaks.org/amazon- atlas/map/)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> Every time a new AWS region is made public, it continues to highlight the disparity in services availability across the regions, as well as making information about services available. Many regions are "discovered" because the ip-regions.json file is updated long before the press release, but it will be some weeks to months before key information needed to spin up infrastructure appears in documentation, for example things like the ELB hosted zone identifier, which at time of writing is not documented.

<comment><USER12> > things like the ELB hosted zone identifier

If you file a ticket on the proper page, I am sure that my colleagues will fix it ASAP. Go to the page and click "Provide feedback."

<comment><USER11> To extend what I'm trying to say is that customers shouldn't have to do this and that updating of this data (which ideally should be in a machine readable format, much like ip-ranges.json) is just another step. I would like to hope that AWS already has playbooks for taking a region out of closed-beta and making it GA. If the listing of af-south-1 is already present on other sections of documentation this may already be the case.

I'll send the feedback through anyhow.

<comment><USER13> Show me that magic unicorn company that spins data centres like that with 0 documentation bugs and I'll join you criticising them. As it stands with limited resources I am pretty impressed with the speed AWS keeps adding capacity around the world.

<comment><USER14> Provide a service, or don't. It's sad that we've been trained to think that screw-ups are normal and OK.

<comment><USER15> Screw-ups will happen no matter how much wishful thinking and effort is spent preventing them. If you assume perfection in things then you will be sorely disappointed by most everything.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> I know Epic Games uses AWS for their Fortnite matchmaking servers. And an African region has been a long-time player request. Maybe those wishes will be fulfilled soon.

<comment><USER17> It's a new data-centre. How does that have a bearing on the way Epic manage their matchmaking? Matchmaking isn't latency-sensitive, is it?

<comment><USER18> My South African cousins have desperately wanted an African Fortnite server. When playing on EU servers their latency was around 200ms on a good day iirc.

<comment><USER17> Oh, right. That's not a matchmaking server then, that's a dedicated multiplayer game server. Matchmaking is, to use Wikipedia's definition, _the process of connecting players together for online play sessions_.

<comment><USER19> in modern games matchmaking = game servers

which can be confusing

in a lot of games you cannot see a server list anymore, you can only use matchmaking (usually casual / ranked) and the matchmaking handles spinning up servers depending on the load.

<comment><USER17> They're still not the same service. Matchmaking is about grouping people together for the game, presumably dependent on their geographical location (for latency) and their skill-level (to balance the game), etc. Dedicated game servers, on the other hand, host the actual multiplayer session.

It's similar to the distinction Netflix uses between their control plane (hosted on AWS) and their content-delivery (hosted on their 'Open Connect' CDN).

<comment><USER19> Oh I agree on the terminology, and I think it's a shame things are how they are (no more active community on games like we see with 2000s games). I was just pointing out that it was so common these days that people mean "game servers" when they say "matchmaking".

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> Awesome news, especially for gaming on the continent. I won't lie, AWS Cape Town is kind of a dream gig for African technologists.

<comment><USER21> No it's not, if I'm based in Tunisia for example, why would I pick that region over one in Europe?

<comment><USER22> Tunisia is practically Europe.

<comment><USER21> That's my point. It makes no sense to talk about "Africa".

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> Of the big public cloud providers, Microsoft came to Africa first.

As far as I know, GCP doesn't have anything on the roadmap for Africa.

<comment><USER24> Why would GCP expand when they are looking to kill the product offering?

<comment><USER25> Can you elaborate on this?

I've never heard before that they are trying to kill GCP?

<comment><USER26> Perhaps they are basing it on this [1] ultimatum supposedly issued by GCP's top brass to best the top 2 cloud providers by a certain date. It was widely discussed on HN some months ago.

1: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21815260](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21815260)

<comment><USER27> Yeah that conversation was pretty silly and more HN echo chamber because folks are mad that Google Reader was shutdown. Below is what I commented a few months ago re: this topic.

> Google is currently building a massive $500 million datacenter outside of > Reno as we speak, and has 10+ billion invested in their datacenter cloud > offering buildout this year alone.

> [https://9to5google.com/2019/07/01/google-data-center- > nevada/](https://9to5google.com/2019/07/01/google-data-center-nevada/)

> > [https://www.rgj.com/story/money/business/2019/02/13/google-i...](https://www.rgj.com/story/money/business/2019/02/13/google-i..).

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER28> The AWS EC2 service was invented in Cape Town, AWS already have a lab and infrastructure there so its easier for them to scale up infrastructure when the people, skills and local ecosystem is already present.

</comment><comment><USER29> I hope they will consider creating a new region also in Lagos, Nigeria. It's the booming[1] megalopolis and biggest city in Africa.

[1] [https://www.brinknews.com/this-country-recently-became- afric...](https://www.brinknews.com/this-country-recently-became-africas- largest-economy-now-its-too-big-for-businesses-to-ignore/)

</comment><comment><USER30> Azure bandwidth out of their Africa datacenters is $0.181 per GB, while AWS is $0.154 per GB, will be interesting to see if this forces Azure prices down.

</comment><comment><USER31> From memory the initial development on AWS was actually done in South Africa. Yup, here we go... [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Amazon_Web_Servi...](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Amazon_Web_Services)

</comment><comment><USER2> Also

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22943445](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22943445)

and

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22943674](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22943674)

</comment><comment><USER32> Cape Town is becoming a serious tech hub

<comment><USER33> Fwiw, EC2 was founded in Cape Town and continues to have a big presence to date. Later, the founding team built Nimbula, kind of DC/OS of the time.

[https://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/06/25/nimbula_cloud_os/](https://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/06/25/nimbula_cloud_os/)

Also see: [http://www.adccpt.com/#/challenges](http://www.adccpt.com/#/challenges)

<comment><USER34> Cool! Had no clue that it was.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_Elastic_Compute_Cloud#H...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_Elastic_Compute_Cloud#History)

<comment><USER35> The source is dead. I thought wikipedia would be better about that

<comment><USER36> > The source is dead. I thought wikipedia would be better about that

You could have fixed it instead of writing such comment. Wikipedia is nothing without the thousands of volunteers writing (and fixing!) content on it.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER37> I would have expected they open up one in Lagos.

</comment><comment><USER38> I wonder if this will improve international connectivity times once Cape Town's Cloudfront is warmed up since the underseas cables wouldn't need to carry as many CDNed assets due to new region presence.

</comment><comment><USER39> Does anyone know how this will affect the water issues that Cape Town have been having? As far as I know, Cape Town's 'Zero Day' is still something people are cognizant of.

<comment><USER40> Not really actually. The drought ended. It does go in some regular cycles if you look at the historical dam water levels. Currently were out of the bad times, but efforts need to be scaled up to be ready for next time. Politically speaking this won't happen though.

In terms of climate, CPT is basically a more windy Los Angeles/SF.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> Nice. Some competition for Azure.

</comment><comment><USER41> Ooo I wonder if this will be the standard for African EHR and PHI</comment>


Republic Wireless to launch $19 unlimited voice, SMS & data service - <AUTHOR> http://gigaom.com/2011/10/31/republic-wireless-to-launch-19-voice-sms-service/ <comment><USER2> It's not news until it exists.</comment>


Arthena (YC W17) creates easily accessible hedge funds that buy art with ML - <AUTHOR> https://arthena.com/ <comment><USER2> I believe Arthena is planning do a launch on HN, so we should probably wait for that to have a thread about them. Then the founders can answer questions and so on.

</comment><comment><USER3> Art is all about knowing people who know people and being in touch and understanding the scene...

How can anyone expect to be successful investing in art without such domain knowledge?

This site makes me think that they're trying to swindle people into giving them assets to manage using the buzzword "Machine Learning", while the complexity of the art industry basically guarantees losses for these naive investors.

</comment><comment><USER4> I haven't heard of an 'art' hedge fund before. Is there enough demand for this to be profitable?

</comment><comment><USER5> Art, ML, Hedgefunds, what could go wrong?</comment>


Sheetfu – Python library to interact with Google Sheets V4 API - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/socialpoint-labs/sheetfu <comment><USER2> Seems like re-creating pygsheets, no? [https://github.com/nithinmurali/pygsheets](https://github.com/nithinmurali/pygsheets)

<comment><AUTHOR> Author here: Sheetfu original goal was to port the Google Apps Script API for spreadsheet (made in javascript) to Python, so you'll see a lot of common ground between those 2 libs.

You could probably achieve the same with both Pygsheet and Sheetfu, the interface is a bit different. Sheetfu, however, contains the Table module, which completely abstracts the coordinate system for a more ORM-ish syntax.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> Anyone tried airtable? It seems like it's designed specifically for this, and looks nice, but the fact that they limit number of rows per table on the free plan is a bit of a WTF.

<comment><USER4> I've tinkered with Airtable a bit and it's a solid product. It's a "database" shown in the style of a spreadsheet. With a number of great features, but of course you got to pay for that.

The plan limit for free I get. However overall I think they use the records- per-base limit as their major "please don't use us for anything automated" function. You couldn't, say, build a light CRM on anything less than the enterprise version because 50k records (for pro aka $20/user/mo) just wouldn't cut it.

For those people who need database type powers for a very very small company - it's really impressive. Anyone larger...probably builds something themselves.

<comment><USER5> I also messed around with Airtable a bit and I do agree that it's a very polished experience. Interestingly, I've noticed that there's actually a large amount of real estate agents who are sick of Salesforce and are very hyped for Airtable. They're waiting for Airtable to add some essential features Salesforce has before jumping ship.

<comment><USER6> This remark is really intriguing me. It sounds like a business opportunity. I'm very interested to discuss about what real estate agents are waiting from Airtable.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> I have been using [https://github.com/burnash/gspread](https://github.com/burnash/gspread) for a while now, very happy with it. Does Sheetfu do anything better?

<comment><AUTHOR> As far as I know, Gspread does not handle data other than cells values. Sheetfu can however, you can get or set notes, and colors for example. Pygsheet also can do that.

Sheetfu contains the Table module which gives you the possibility to interact with your sheet as it it was a database table (as close as we can get to ORM- ish approach).

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> First impression: get_field_name and set_field_name seem quite verbose when one could simply get / set attributes directly

<comment><USER9> Yeah, this could be more pythonic for sure. Setter and getter methods are always a bit iffy in Python, usually their presence in a library doesn't bode well.

They could make some of them work with the same syntax as dictionaries, which would be a good start.

<comment><USER10> > usually their presence in a library doesn't bode well

Yuuup. My personal favorite is SendGrid/Twilio's email envelope handling, in which the way you add multiple headers is by .... assigning to an attribute multiple times:

        mail_object.header = "header 1"
        mail_object.header = "header 2"
        mail_object.send()  # Sends with headers ["header 1", "header 2"]

<comment><USER8> As convenient as you may find it, that behavior seems really unexpected so I don't think that qualifies as a great example

<comment><USER9> It's a great example of poorly designed APIs, that was his point.

<comment><USER8> Thanks. I missed his sarcastic tone entirely, but now I see it.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> Is it possible using this or pygsheets to open a sheet that is editable by link without authorizing your account?

<comment><USER4> No. The API's require authentication to function.

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> also see stencila [https://stenci.la](https://stenci.la)

<comment><USER13> Looks like nice stuff but this is not yet something that can be used if one is not part of the closed beta.

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> is there something like this for gmail? Where I could query emails from Python and act on them?

<comment><USER15> GMail has an IMAP-interface. You can use any imap-capable solution, including pythons own imaplib.

<comment><USER16> IMAP cannot operate on a whole thread at a time. Ironically you will hardly notice the difference when operating with the web interface, which is very much thread based, but it can be useful to apply a label to a whole thread if your interaction with GMail happens in Thunderbird or mutt. For example, I have a Google Apps script that adds a label to a whole thread whenever someone CCs me on a bug, so that the entire bug suddenly pops up in the "my bugs" Thunderbird folder, including messages prior to my being added.

<comment><USER15> Yes and no. You must fetch the whole thread in a seperate request and handle them specifically. Bit more work, but simple.

[https://developers.google.com/gmail/imap/imap- extensions#acc...](https://developers.google.com/gmail/imap/imap- extensions#access_to_the_gmail_thread_id_x-gm-thrid)</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Eleanor Roosevelt's son authored mysteries in which his mother solves murders - <AUTHOR> https://crimereads.com/eleanor-roosevelts-son-authored-twenty-mysteries-in-which-his-mother-solves-murders/ <comment><USER2> In WASP circles mysteries are classier than fanfic. Imagine if he'd shipped Anna Eleanor with Lyudmila Mikhailovna!

[https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/eleanor-roosevelt- and...](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/eleanor-roosevelt-and-the- soviet-sniper-23585278/)

Edit: Yes, "ship" is fanfically verbed. Hate the language, not the writer. (I find it amusing that a forum which runs to multiple pages on relationships such as Oracle/TikTok or Arm/Nvidia doesn't appreciate mentions of relationships more along the lines of Twilight Sparkle/Rainbow Dash.)

Edit2: Give ship a few more years, and it may pick up some prepositions with distinct meanings. "Him? He just ships around" or "With you? Not in a thousand years! Ship off!" (but not "*I'm shipping up to Boston").

</comment><comment><USER3> I am infuriated by the idiotic use of "authored" rather than "wrote" but in this case, as they were ghostwritten, perhaps it's actually in some sense correct!

(Stomping off now to be pissed off at the odious use of "gift" as a verb)

<comment><USER4> Verb all the nouns! I gotta coffee then bookshelf the cup for later while keyboarding my thoughts as a part of internetting for the morning. You can brain this gifting from me to you! Thanks, I hate it too.

<comment><USER5> "Verbing weirds language"

[https://www.gocomics.com/calvinandhobbes/1993/01/25](https://www.gocomics.com/calvinandhobbes/1993/01/25)

<comment><USER6> Verbing is super cool! English being my second language, the casualness of verbing is my favorite feature of it! In Polish, you can technically verb nouns too, but it's frowned upon to do it on your own.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: Engineering team consists of all friends - <AUTHOR> Hello HN,
A company I've recently had the opportunity to interview has a small engineering team consisting of "best friends". My first reaction is that this seems to be a red flag because of the way in which friends interact with each other isn't always professional. How would one deal with working on a team consisting of friends where you're not part of the friend group?
Also, can anyone relate to this type of culture, and if so, what did you think, and how did you react? <comment><USER2> Unless you feel like you are also going to become best friends I suggest you be aware that it's highly likely your opinion will matter the least, mistakes by team members will be difficult to highlight, you will be unlikely to get promoted or be acknowledged as being as valuable as the friends. It does depend how many people there are currently; if it's more than four I'd stay away if it's less than four you can say to them and think like you are employee number 1.

I'd ask them about the things I've suggested might be problematic and if their reaction is anything but thoughtful comments on how to fix such things for you run away.

Finally for me it'd be about the idea, if I was passionate about it I'd find a way to make it work probably but then I care more about the product that's made than even the people.

<comment><USER3> >you will be unlikely to get promoted

Doesn't matter as long as I get a paycheck - the promotion path is through job-hopping these days.

<comment><USER4> It looks like you are getting downvoted, but there is a lot of truth in what you are saying. I have lots of anecdotal evidence of my peers leaving their jobs for new ones that pay a lot more. The very senior/principal engineers have even been offered large amounts of money/stock to stay, but by that point it's too late. The best path to getting raises starting from a junior engineer is to leave for a new company. There are many benefits I can list to stay at one company (network, growth as an engineer, etc.), but promotions and pay raises aren't part of that list with few exceptions.

<comment><USER3> There's game-theory stuff too. Job market is a lot like an auction, so if the winner doesn't correct for things they'll usually end up paying for their winning overestimates of candidate value.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> I think the distinction needs to be made on whether or not they started together as best friends or if they became close through work. My reaction would be different for each situation.

</comment><comment><USER6> I'd echo most of the commenters here, but instead of saying run away, I'd ask what the lead is like. If there's no lead, keep far away. You'd have to get into the friend group before they'll really listen. If there is a lead, then that's who you need to evaluate, not the team as a whole. I've been line manager for friends before, and I've always made it clear: work is work. If they screw up I'm going to treat them as employees first and friends last. However, not everyone can make that distinction, so be _very_ careful and if you take the job, be ready to leave if it doesn't look like the position is going to pan out fairly.

<comment><USER7> I would generally agree more along there lines. I've had a manager (not lead but enough to say this) where favorites were played (friends for like 20+ years) and it is frustrating in many ways (e.g. lobbying for your friends to get different benefits within the company during their hiring, first person to seek opinion from and then move in that direction regardless of others, etc.)

I would happily work amongst a set of friends but not where it goes into leadership.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> Oddly enough, the biggest challenge I've seen for engineering teams and leadership groups that have a long term association outside of work is communication.

I believe this arises out of a natural tendency between long term friends to form a sort of verbal short hand to communicate. That and unspoken expectations like "of course Bob was going to write the test plan, he likes to do that sort of thing and will take care of it." If you're trying to operate in that environment your own attempt to understand the communications can be perceived differently than you intend.

Additionally if they have a lot of opportunities (or a regular opportunity) to get together as friends, often critical communications will happen there completely innocuously (and sometimes not so innocuously) which will leave you out of the loop and so open to doing something "wrong" simply because you didn't get the non-existent memo that the friends shared over a beer.

A good manager will recognize the risks and take steps to avoid them like debriefing members of the friends group to insure that all communication is correctly flowing and accurately assessing fault when miscommunication happens.

</comment><comment><USER9> Wow, interesting question but I don't share the negative interpretation of some commenters. I think this could literally go any direction and its really subjective and hard to give you advice on. It's very possible you'll join them and become one of the group. I work for a very small company and the SRE team I am on is quite tight, as they were before I joined, but our interviewing process included enough interaction with the team that we all knew we'd hit it off before they made me an offer.

</comment><comment><USER10> From 2007 until 2016 my main source of income came from working as a software developer for startup companies. During that time I worked for about 8 or 9 companies. Some of those companies provided a great working environment, but most of them were terrible. The #1 factor that made a working environment terrible is the founders being friends before the company started. About 80% of the companies I worked for were "friend companies". Just about every post in this thread nails it. You, being not one of the friends, will always be on the outside and will never be treated the same way the friends are.

</comment><comment><USER11> If they became best friends on the job that's one thing (but a long term problem)

If they became friends before and then hired each other it's a red flag

         Cronyism is the practice of partiality in awarding jobs
         and other advantages to friends or trusted colleagues,
         especially in politics and between politicians and
         supportive organizations. For instance, this includes
         appointing "cronies" to positions of authority,
         regardless of their qualifications.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cronyism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cronyism)

( essentially a variation of [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nepotism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nepotism) )

<comment><USER12> The important part is the "...regardless of their qualifications". There is nothing wrong with hiring friends, or family as long as the person is qualified. OP didn't mention anything about qualifications, so I think it's a bit early to jump the gun and proclaim Nepotism.

In reality it's very common to get a job because a friend or a family member referred you.

<comment><USER13> Yes there is, especially when qualifications are subjective or hard to measure.

Being friends with someone makes you more likely to look past their flaws, give them the benefit of the doubt. If you don't do the same for non-friends, you will miss out on some qualified people.

There is also a negative effect in morale when people even suspect nepotism, rightly or wrongly.

<comment><USER14> I somewhat disagree with the idea that being friends with someone makes you more likely to look past their flaws. If anything, you are more aware of your friends flaws, and can plan accordingly. Hiring the wrong person for the job is obviously not productive, but not hiring the right person because you know them too well seems down right foolish.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> I don't think this gives you enough information to judge, to be honest. If your gut is telling you this is a red flag, then you should probably heed that feeling, but what you describe is not _necessarily_ a red flag, there are pros and cons. A team of "best friends" may be preferable to a team of cutthroat assholes for example.

<comment><USER16> Having worked with best friends before, working for a team of best friends who are actually cut throat assholes is not a fun job.

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> A big part of team cohesion is everybody being on the same page at any given time.

If they are socializing a lot outside of work without you, you will never be in the loop.

In real terms: you will be working on death march projects, your code will be thrown away, you will not be consulted about adopting new techs, etc.

Also: groupthink will be very strong and debate will take place very rarely, leading to hasty decision making and stubborn unwillingness to change.

<comment><USER18> I experienced this first hand recently. It became an issue I pretty much had to leave the company. Not much you can do if your not in the clique.

</comment></comment><comment><USER19> Run, you'll be there just for the work; fun will be elsewhere and you'll likely end up being a scapegoat when something goes south. Even worse is the combination of best friends and family, i.e. completely clueless people deciding on things by the virtue of being close to somebody.

<comment><USER20> > you'll be there just for the work; fun will be elsewhere

This is as work should be.

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> I have had two experiences in which teams of friends proved to be an absolute pleasure to join. In one case, the company consisted of two brothers and their two college friends before I joined. They had lots of inside jokes and stuff, but they worked well together and welcomed me with open arms.

I think one question is: do these people seem like people you want to socialize with? Or only work with? If the answer is the latter, you do probably run the risk of feeling like an outsider, at least some of the time.

</comment><comment><USER22> I mean, I feel like this needs to be handled on a case by case basis.

What is the company? What is the team working on? How serious is it?

I wouldn't think it is inherently negative situation until proven otherwise.

</comment><comment><USER23> If they make a big deal out of the fact that they're all friends, it's definitely a red flag.

<comment><USER17> Agreed, it's almost like they're telling you that you won't succeed unless you're "one of them."

</comment></comment><comment><USER24> Your ability to be treated as equal member of the team will be highly dependent on whether you are able to become best friend with them. Chances are, you wont be able to achieve that unless you socialize with them a lot. If you fail at that, chances are you will have hard time push for ideas you have, architecture meeting being done during beer you are not at, important decisions not being told to you cause they forgot and so on and so forth.

Definitely red flag, un less you are ok with the above.

</comment><comment><USER25> Why speculate? If you're unsure but still curious, ask for a short term contract to make sure you're a good fit for each other. That gives you an easy out in the end (and for them as well) if things don't work out.

</comment><comment><USER26> It depends.

If they have a good leadership, I would totally go for it. If the leadership is weak, I wouldn't.

Truth being said, and it has been said here more than once, you'll be the scapegoat and the last in the queue to get a promotion if the leadership is weak and care mostly about the happiness of their friends, rather than the success of the company.

But it could be different, so analyze and think for yourself. Also, you don't need to get promoted there, you can move jobs. It depends more on what you want and how is the current situation, even with friends and you being a scapegoat, it could be good.

Think and decide.

</comment><comment><USER27> I've personally witnessed a startup where the founders were very close friends and it didn't pan out well in the beginning. The Lead was disciplined and very methodical but one of the cofounders just floundered about creating havoc at every opportunity. It got to that point where the Lead had to drawn a line between work and brotherhood. Everything fixed itself after

So i'll chip this in. You've got to ask whether these people know where to draw the line between work and friendship. If the answer is no, Run for it

<comment><USER28> Being able to answer that question may not be easy (as maybe everything goes well UNTIL some critical issue arises - and at that point it could be too late). That being said, I have some colleagues that are good friends outside of work, but they are extremely professional and productive in the office. So I think it ultimately depends on the personalities of the people involved.

</comment></comment><comment><USER29> FWIW "professional" environments can be pretty boring, though they're also less likely to have death marches and social problems.

It really depends on your analysis. Did they seem friendly and interested in including you in their group? Are you looking for "just a job", or would you enjoy the social aspect also? Are they planning on hiring more people, which would help make you feel more comfortable.

</comment><comment><USER30> I experienced sort of the reverse of this situation and it wasn't bad. I guess I'd have the same negative expectation (as do most of the commenters), but it may work out.

My entire team was fired save for me. We brought in some friends of another employee who had worked with these new hires at his previous company. I managed to fit in fine and things are going well.

</comment><comment><USER31> I joined a team where everyone had been there for a while and were friends. They had jokes and banter constantly and I didn't understand the in-jokes, the references to jokes that referenced their past history and I felt isolated and did not enjoy being part of the 'team'. I reacted by looking to move teams.

</comment><comment><USER32> That really sounds dreadful. I'd avoid.

</comment><comment><USER33> Are they friends because they've been brought together by work or were they friends beforehand.

The former would be a very strong positive signal to me. The latter would be neutral or weakly negative.

Also consider the nature of the work. Shared adversity is good at creating friendships.

</comment><comment><USER34> not a chance. they will make you the red-headed stepchild. anyone with a shred of business sense would know not to reveal this to candidates. the fact they are flaunting it is a HUGE red flag.

</comment><comment><USER35> what you are really worried about is the culture, but it's hard to make a judgement just because they are "best friends"</comment>


Ask HN: Can a generalist lead a successful company run by experts? - <AUTHOR> Hi HN,
So all my adult life I've had this dream of starting a "multi-media" business. That is, a company that does web, photo, video, or anything else visual.
The thing is, at best I'm an expert in web and photo. But I am far from being capable of being the one man show of a multi-media company.
But I have vision, and faith in my ability to find and contract with talent who can do the work effectively.
Do founders of companies have to be experts in everything their company aspires to do? Or is it possible to get by on just having the vision, and finding others who are experts at actualizing it? <comment><USER2> No you do not need to be an expert in all aspects.

What you need to have is great vision, the ability to sell your vision to others and a drive to make it happen.</comment>


Skimmers Found at Walmart: A Closer Look - <AUTHOR> http://krebsonsecurity.com/2016/05/skimmers-found-at-walmart-a-closer-look/ <comment><USER2> True story: I was an American in the wastelands of Uzbekistan and needed to find a bank to get currency. Locals pointed us in the direction of a tiny cluster of buildings on the horizon. We got there and one of the buildings was indeed a tiny bank of some kind. We gave the person running the place our debit card and he looked at it with surprise. He flipped it over and over then gave it back. They didn't accept magnetic stripe cards-- only chip and pin. What backwater place did I come from that still issued magnetic stripe only cards?

<comment><USER3> When you talk to your US bank, make sure you get a chip card that is international-enabled (aka has chip+pin on it). Nearly all the US cards are chip+signature, which means they won't work at places like European train station ticket kiosks (no way to enter a signature). Found that out myself...

<comment><USER4> Heck, even in places that support both, chip-and-sign cards are an enormous pain. I'm a Canadian with an American corporate Amex and inevitably the dance is:

1\. The guy dips the chip. Machine errors out.

2\. Guy tries it again and fails.

3\. Finally listens to me and dips the chip, then swipes. But it has to be _right after_ the chip fails so the machine will accept the swipe.

Why? Well if they swipe first, the machine says to use the chip, then they use the chip and it errors out on that, and then they swipe again and it works.

Technology!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> A few months ago I went to use my high street bank's ATM and it had an unusual card aperture. The rest of the machine looked normal. I walked into the branch, explained my concern and the cashier looked at me for several long moments, as if I had made some amazing comment, then said their engineers had fitted it and it was fine to use. I got the impression that I was the first to ask about it, and that such questions are unusual.

<comment><USER6> And presumably "their" engineers were instead social engineers?

<comment><USER7> No kidding. Next time walk in with a clipboard, some sort of name tag, and announce to the cashier that you need to perform maintenance on their ATM machine for the next half hour.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> I've got a question about the chip cards. I have one and I use it when possible. I often hear that the reason to use them is that they are harder and more expensive to copy than cards with just a magnetic strip. This seems like a pretty weak deterrent. If everyone starts using chips wouldn't the price of creating cloned cards with chips go down? Wouldn't it eventually become worthwhile to criminals? Or do the chips provide another layer of security that I'm unaware of?

<comment><USER9> My understanding is that the strip essentially encodes the credit card number, and that when you swipe it, you pass the number. Therefore, "stealing" the card is as easy as MITM-ing that (with a skimmer).

The chip, on the other hand, answers a query that proves that it knows a secret. If the attacker listens to the exchange between the card and the reader, it doesn't learn the secret itself, and the next transaction will ask a different query.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> I don't consider myself an authority on this, but that's one of the most convincing skimmers I've ever seen. Significant effort went into designing and manufacturing that.

<comment><USER11> Yep. Traditionally, it takes a minimum of six figures to create an injection mold like that, even at China prices. Not your average basement hack job.

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> a skimmer video from Vienna that's gone viral [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ll4f0Wim4pM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ll4f0Wim4pM)

<comment><USER13> Hah, interesting. I always tug on the parts of ATM machines, too, specifically because of skimmers.

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> Can the rise of skimmers be attributed to the fact that a chip card is more difficult to "hack" into and since more and more customers and vendors are requiring dipping chip cards the thieves want to get as many cards as possible before all vendors require chip and dip?

</comment><comment><USER15> Here in Singapore I could get a replacement debit/atm card in an hour by visiting any open branch. Or credit card in 3-4 working days. Maybe it is because Singapore is such a small country. I have to say though hearing the stories about consumer facing tech from the US credit cards, 911, cable boxes internet speeds vs the business tech you see where the US dominates. I feel the people are less important in the US then the corporations.

</comment><comment><USER16> Another recent skimmer: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ll4f0Wim4pM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ll4f0Wim4pM)</comment>


Show HN: A user interface for Postgres EXPLAIN that also gives tips - <AUTHOR> https://www.pgmustard.com/ <comment><AUTHOR> We are inspired by [https://explain.depesz.com/](https://explain.depesz.com/) and [https://tatiyants.com/pev/](https://tatiyants.com/pev/) and would be very interested in how people think pgMustard compares. Thanks!

<comment><USER2> Well I was just about to post a link to the tatiyants page ;)

Sign-up is a huge barrier to people trying it out, especially given that there are high-quality alternatives without that roadblock. For me personally the loginwall is enough for me to not use it.

<comment><USER3> Yup, login is a no-go for me, especially since they want to tie to a Google login. That's an absolutely no-go.

But I do appreciate them telling me about the competition, so that I can use them.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Looks great!</comment>


Richard Garriott's D&D #1 Contest - <AUTHOR> https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/?p=39149 <comment><USER2> Contest terms include:

        4) Add a "© 1977-2014 Richard Garriott" at the beginning.
        5) May include an addition of "Ported by DEVELOPER NAME".
        6) Must agree that all rights to this port remain property of Richard Garriott

<comment><USER3> Nothing like high-grade lawyer paranoia to sour all the fun for things like this.

<comment><USER4> Since it sounds like they are going to put this game in their real game as a mini-game, I can understand the strictness here. It would be lame if this was a free form hackathon, but really it is just a porting contest for producing an easter egg to put in their real game. It would be pretty strange legally to have someone else owning a game in their game.

<comment><USER2> It would not be even a tiny bit strange. Games almost always ship full of code that belongs to other people. Think about middleware (e.g. Bink codecs).

The obvious thing to do is that you're only eligible for the contest if you grant the contest-holders appropriate (non-exclusive) rights.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Is it just me, or does this game strongly appear to be a roguelike that was written three years or so prior to Rogue?

Update: Also, I'm no longer familiar with any BASIC dialect, and I've never been familiar with any that ran on a PDP-11, but am I mistaken in thinking these two lines

      00210 FILE #1="DNG1"
      00220 FILE #2="DNG2",#3="DNG3",#4="DNG4",#5="DNG5",#6="DNG6"

reference other files, which judging by their names might contain dungeon definitions required for the game to work?

If so, I have to think this is going to be a short contest with a most disappointing result.

<comment><USER6> I'm sure they were just ASCII text files or something else whose structure should be equally obvious from looking at the code.

        +</comment></comment><comment>--+</comment><comment>-+
        |        |       |
        +----+   |       |
             |   |       .
             .   .       .
             .   .       .

... etc.

<comment><USER5> Very little is obvious from looking at that code. I'm sure nonetheless that someone can and will deduce the format and produce workable dungeon files, but whether they have any resemblance to the originals is something only Richard Garriott, if anyone, can answer, which at best severely complicates the "faithful recreation" rule of the contest.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> There are plenty of people on HN who are good programmers / coders [1] and who will never have seen BASIC before.

I am really curious to know what they think of this source code. Is it readable and understandable without access to any kind of BASIC manual? Or are you making use of as much online documentation as you can to grok it?

<comment><USER8> BASIC isn't that ancient and should be familiar to anyone who has experience with C. Scanning the code here I don't think there's a lot of insight to be gleaned by studying it in depth. There really aren't any comments and program flow jumps around with GOTO frequently (there are no functions to call) so it's hard to tell what's going on without studying each line. Variable names are very short (1 to 2 characters) and don't tell you a lot about what's going on. If you really want to understand what the code is doing, you're probably going to need to spend a few hours going through it line by line and annotating in the margins where each 'function' is and what each variable means. Once you've done that it's probably best to just rewrite it in C using functions, etc.

<comment><USER6> I'd be tempted to just write a quick and dirty interpreter for the BASIC dialect in question. I could almost certainly do that more quickly than I could port that code to C.

<comment><USER5> I'm really hoping there's at least one submission which consists of a BBC BASIC interpreter written in C and compiled via asm.js into Javascript, thus satisfying the contest's requirements regarding platforms, and which executes the original BASIC code.

(What I'd _really_ like to see is a PDP-11 emulator written in C and compiled via asm.js, &c., &c., but I doubt anyone seriously pursuing the contest will be quite that insane.)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> The source code is a PDF of old printouts... I am having trouble getting OCR to work.

Anyone know where to find the text?

<comment><USER10> [https://gist.github.com/daeken/11123897](https://gist.github.com/daeken/11123897) I pulled it out of an OCR'd PDF that someone linked from the forums.

<comment><USER11> There's a missing newline on line 00590: [https://gist.github.com/PiPeep/11126853/revisions](https://gist.github.com/PiPeep/11126853/revisions)</comment></comment></comment>


SegmentSmack: tcp segments with random offsets may cause a remote DoS - <AUTHOR> https://access.redhat.com/articles/3553061 <comment><AUTHOR> The CVE is: [http://cve.mitre.org/cgi- bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2018-5390](http://cve.mitre.org/cgi- bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2018-5390)</comment>