The impact of Masayoshi Son's $100B fund will be profound - <AUTHOR> https://www.economist.com/news/briefing/21741969-it-giving-new-opportunities-entrepreneurs-and-forcing-silicon-valleys-best-stay <comment><USER2> > The dotcom crash of 2001 wiped out 99% of SoftBank's market value.

> But one investment—$20m sunk into Alibaba—is regarded as one of the best in > history. The Chinese internet titan went public in 2014 in the world's > biggest IPO. SoftBank's 28% stake in the firm is now worth $140bn.

Kind of mind-boggling who the real titan is here: Alibaba. Both Softbank and the late Yahoo (USA)'s core value were derived solely on Alibaba's market cap, able to prop up whole other companies.

I've always assumed that Softbank was getting its money from Softbank, but surprising to learn they derived most of their value from Alibaba stock just like Yahoo. If you've ever seen their Pepper robots, it's pretty indicative of how dysfunctional their main offerings are. The robot is somehow everywhere in Japan, but 100% useless as well.

<comment><USER3> The only investment of a VC style I've seen in the last few decades that surpasses Softbank's return on Alibaba, is Naspers with Tencent. Until their recent $10b sale of some shares, they owned 1/3 of Tencent.

"The stake Naspers bought for just $32 million in 2001 -- when Tencent was an obscure Web firm in a nation where few people used the Internet -- is now worth $175 billion."

"While the investment has made Naspers the most valuable company in Africa, its market capitalization of about $122 billion lags well behind the value of the Tencent holding, suggesting investors assign no value to its other businesses."

[https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-03-22/naspers-s...](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-03-22/naspers- sells-10-6-billion-of-tencent-to-fund-investments)

There have been a few massive percentage returns that have been similarly outsized over the years, not equal to the top line scale however. Peter Thiel's investment into Facebook produced something like a 5,000 fold return.

The parents of Jeff Bezos put $50,000 into Amazon in its initial $1m round, which has produced something around a $2b to $3b fortune for them (a ~40,000+ fold return).

There have also been some infamous misses that would have produced comparably extreme returns. Paul Allen owned 25% of AOL right before it become a giant; he sold his position for a few hundred million dollars in a fit, because they wouldn't allow him to buy a larger position in it; that stake would have solidly been worth $40 billion at the peak. [1]

Larry Ellison wanted to buy a very large position in Apple, in the process of returning Jobs to the CEO role. Jobs talked him out of it on a moral high ground basis. [2] It's hard to speculate what that might be worth today or if Ellison would have screwed everything up instead, could have been a couple hundred billion dollar miss.

[1] [https://www.forbes.com/forbes/1999/1115/6412186a.html](https://www.forbes.com/forbes/1999/1115/6412186a.html)

[2] [https://www.cultofmac.com/428587/larry-ellison-steve-jobs- sh...](https://www.cultofmac.com/428587/larry-ellison-steve-jobs-shot-down-my- apple-takeover-plans/)

<comment><USER4> Ellison is probably (most likely) not the type that likes to _not_ meddle in things, so Apple might not have been worth anything similar to what it is now.

Excite had the chance to buy Google way back, IIRC, for $800K by Larry and Sergey. Probably the tech would have died down there, but the founders hired the right people, chased money instead of ethics and Google is worth 3/4 of a TRILLION.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> > Putting $4.4bn into WeWork, a provider of shared workspaces, valuing it at > $20bn, is another risky bet. The firm leases office space, redesigns it to > create a hip vibe and sublets it to startups, freelancers and some big > firms. The worry is that WeWork is little more than a commercial-property > company that is unjustifiably trading on a tech valuation and will soon be > rumbled.

I was impressed by how fast WeWork expands. In Berlin it now has 7 co-working spaces all fairly close located. They recently bought meetup.com.

<comment><USER6> It's easy to expand fast, when you expand by burn, not by customer acquisition. Want to have 10x empty offices in 10x cities? Just burn 100x more money.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> It's these kinds of larger than life personalities who carry humanity forward, or at least make the big leaps possible. Not the conservative ivy league money manilupulators now pretending to be tech visionaries at VC firms in exchange for a quick skim off the top.

<comment><USER8> Tim Berners Lee never came across as large than life personality. I would say he had quite a profound impact on things. More than "larger than life" type Steve Jobs IMHO.

<comment><USER9> You're speaking of real history, not the watered down version that gets taught to school children.

Unfortunately, without concerted effort, the public will willfully reject an alternate history if it's more nuanced. Exhibit A, who invented the telephone?

<comment> purple-again That is a really bad example to use as there is no general agreement on the issue. The Italian government obviously has a biased opinion in wanting to credit one of their citizens(I'm actually confused if he was Italian or American because it said his invention was in New York).

I don't know what skin in the game Canada has when they passed a resolution recognizing Bell Graham as the inventor.

Honestly to me it looks like there is not a clear answer. You can pick either of them you want, draw an abitrary line in the sand about what a 'telephone' really is and use that line to defend your choice.

Any rational argument on the topic will have to start with both parties agreeing on what a telephone is first and then looking at the two parties to see which invented their agreed definition.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> If anyone is interested to get a good understanding of Softbank's history and the Vision fund, I can strongly recommend a recent, lengthy episode the great Acquired podcast did on it: [http://www.acquired.fm/episodes/2018/3/22/season-2-episode-4...](http://www.acquired.fm/episodes/2018/3/22/season-2-episode-4softbank- fortress-and-the-vision-fund)

</comment><comment><USER11> SoftBank seems to be all over HN this year; I see it mentioned in comments all the time, as some very well known and important player. But I swear I didn't even know that name when this year started. So what's going on? Is it me just not paying attention? Or did something change, and suddenly made this company interesting?

<comment><USER12> They've been around for a long time but the Valley historically doesn't pay attention to non-Valley players until they reach Valley shores. Softbank, after all, was one of the only very early investors in Alibaba. Alibaba wasn't even on the Valley's radar until they IPO'ed. Californian tech folks can't help but see only within a 100-mile radius.

<comment><USER13> For a company that had little non Asian presence, not knowing what soft bank is very reasonable.

It's like knowing about ICBC, the largest bank in the world but most people have never seen a branch of it.

Couple that with them being like an investment firm outside of Japan. They could be as obscure as Berkshire, a big player, but one most consumers don't come into contact with.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> At this point can SoftBank make winners in silicon valley by pouring money on companies and having the other companies they have invested in support each other by using each others products?

Is this good/bad for the silicon valley ecosystem? Is there a point at which massive investment groups get treated as monoplies and regulated?

Uber and Grab (both SoftBank investments) merged into one in the Philippines: [https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-03-26/grab- vanq...](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-03-26/grab-vanquishes- uber-with-local-strategy-billions-from-softbank)

</comment><comment><USER15> $100B will completely change landscape given the total amount of VC investment per year has only been around $100B to date. Exact figure depends on what source you look at but here's one: [https://www.statista.com/statistics/277501/venture- capital-a...](https://www.statista.com/statistics/277501/venture-capital- amount-invested-in-the-united-states-since-1995/)

</comment><comment><USER16> SoftBank had been good news and bad news both at the same time for tech. The good news is that they have so much money that they don't know what to do with it. On the top of this, they have moronic non-technical people who were only "technical" like a decade ago to do the evaluations. So if you have a startup and mild ability to hype up to these folks, you come out laughing with millions in your hand almost instantly.

The bad news is that they are absolutely incompetent VCs. Just look at their recent investments in things like impossible io. Whenever I think who the hell in their right mind will invest in this completely bogus and fraudulent company, SoftBank comes around and buys them up with billion dollars. They have no differentiation between betting on risky startup vs betting on bogus startup. They are currently biggest party responsible for hyping up lots of startups for absolutely no apparent reason.

</comment><comment><USER17> So $33B has been invested. What has been done with this money, besides mergers and financial stuff? What has been built that wouldn't have been built with regular sums of money ?

<comment><USER18> The fund isn't about building stuff. It's about trying to acquire key components of the digital and internet based economy. So mergers and financial stuff is the intent -- it's essentially a digital infrastructure fund.

To be fair, if he gets one or two homeruns (like with Alibaba) the returns for the fund will be positive. Quite remarkable actually, 90% of these investments could go to zero, and he might still end up making a boatload.

<comment><USER19> I think it will be much much more difficult to get a market beating return with a $100B fund than the $1.7B SoftBank invested back in the 1990s. The denominator is a huge issue -- to get a 3x on a $100B fund, which most VCs target and what is roughly needed to beat the market over the ~10 year life of a fund you need your investments to generate $200B of value. That's 25% of Alphabets value for reference. So if 90% go to zero, he'd not only need to catch the next Google but also would need to own 25% of it when it's worth $800B

Even if he did alibaba again, unlikely bc it was one of the best investments ever, the current stake is only worth $140B. If that's your only winner you'd be better off buying mutual funds

His strategy probably isn't just to get a financial return like typical VCs, he probable has more of a financial engineering / corporate raider / empire building strategy

<comment><USER17> Can you please explain your last sentence ?

<comment><USER19> I think the vision fund will probably act less like a typical VC fund and more like a private equity / leveraged buyout fund. Rather than invest in really early but promising companies, invest in companies that are more mature and are leaders in industries with high growth potential. And then use your huge wallet as a weapon to move and shape those industries as you see fit

The ride sharing market is an example. He's invested in several ride sharing cos with leadership in different geographies. If a company doesn't want his money, he can threaten to give $5B to a competitor. That's an almost predatory, and certainly not founder friendly move. not quite as aggressive as Carl Icahn for ex, but certainly not something most VCs would do (maybe I'm giving VCs too much credit).

Once he invests in a company I imagine he will use each company as a chess piece in reshaping industries. If there's a battle between two ride sharing companies over leadership of a new market, he'll probably be in a position to influence how that plays out.

So maybe the fund is less about investing in innovation and more about staking claims to pieces of the digital economy and playing a game of chess against the rest of the global tech industry

<comment><USER18> > but certainly not something most VCs would do

They certainly would, but they don't have enough cash to do that.

I even read somewhere he already wants to raise a second Vision fund.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> Who runs purchasing at Improbable? That person can put my kids and their cousins through college.

</comment><comment><USER21> If you mash the escape button before the paywall loads, it doesn't load.

<comment><USER22> Shhh. Don't give their development team ideas ;)

</comment></comment><comment><USER23> This is paywalled, and the web link does not work.

<comment><USER24> [https://web.archive.org/web/20180513073120/https://www.econo...](https://web.archive.org/web/20180513073120/https://www.economist.com/news/briefing/21741969-it- giving-new-opportunities-entrepreneurs-and-forcing-silicon-valleys-best-stay)

<comment><USER23> Thanks (I didn't think of using wayback machine), but it doesn't work either.

<comment><USER25> The original link works for me, for what that is worth...

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> I don't appreciate articles from paywalled newspapers. I can't read them and don't want to do any tricks to gain access. The net is large and full of well written articles that are accessible to read. Let's ignore the paywalled bunch and focus on the open and free.

<comment><USER27> the economist publishes articles of extraordinary quality and offers quite a few of them for free. This is not the financial times

<comment><USER28> > the economist publishes articles of extraordinary quality

No they don't. They offer fluff. This article is just fluff and years old news. Maybe because I work in the tech industry, but this article didn't offer anything of value. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that $100 billion dollar fund dedicated to tech investing ( especially in developing nations ) is going to have an impact.

<comment><USER27> the paper has been in circulation for close to a 175 years and is ranked as the most trusted journalistic publication ( [https://www.rjionline.org/reporthtml.html](https://www.rjionline.org/reporthtml.html) ) - do yourself a favor, get the print edition convince yourself. I've been a reader for years and highly recommend it.

<comment><USER28> > the paper has been in circulation for close to a 175 years

The NY Post has been in circulation for over 200 years. Not sure what your point is.

> is ranked as the most trusted journalistic publication

That isn't a good thing. Think about it.

> do yourself a favor, get the print edition convince yourself. I've been a > reader for years and highly recommend it.

Does it seem like I've never read the economist to you? It's information pollution. You are dumber and more misinformed for having read it. The economist along with every other media publication should come with a warning like cigarettes.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Parents in the college-admissions scandal were responding to a changing America - <AUTHOR> https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/04/what-college-admissions-scandal-reveals/586468/ <comment><USER2> The college-admissions scandal clearly delineates the difference between Old Money and New Money. Old Money would never get caught cheating in this manner. They would take advantage of their old boy network and bribe the school with the promise of a big donation. New Money doesn't have access to this network, so they have to resort to doing business with a slimeball like Singer.</comment>


Ask HN: Meeting Apple Marketing person for first time tomorrow - any advice? - <AUTHOR>

I'm building a Mac app targeting the educational iBooks market. We're still in private beta, but several people from Apple have signed up to our launch email list already.
Today, I was contacted by a Business Development Manager at Apple's Marketing team. He requested a phone meeting with him tomorrow, to learn more about what we're building and how we envision it being used in schools.
Any advice on what I should and should not say / ask? <comment><USER2> Apple's marketing department is an area I am intimately familiar with.

1\. Are you _targeting_ the iBooks market, or are you targeting the iBooks market? That is: are you competition to Apple, or a potential success story for them?

2\. Apple meets interesting companies who are in interesting fields regularly. Biz Dev is a broad title. It can mean any of the following:

i. Hey let's be friends! ii. This is a market we're going to highlight in the next keynote and you might fit in well. iii. This is a market we are keen to exploit more and you're potentially competition. iv. We want to acquire you. v. We want to fuck you, hard.

If you're not sure which of those it's going to be you need to take a long look at Apple's objectives with iBooks and education and work out where you sit on their radar.

3\. Don't give anything away that Apple couldn't already have reasonably worked out. Talk about the size of your team and your experience in this market, but don't talk about investment or investors. If they ask specifically then just politely say that its' confidential, and that you're sure someone from Apple can understand that.

4\. Be passionate about the public side of your roadmap. Discuss the key problems and the solution you have to them. Have answers to the challenges you're likely to face (I guess traction is one).

Don't ask about Apple's plans because they won't tell you anything. However, do think about things that Apple could do that would help you get into this market and really open it up. Frame some questions around that if you can.

Sorry this is a little broad. I don't think you're naive enough to be expecting an acquisition or something, but you should also be prepared for the fact that they will probably speak to 100 companies like you every week, just so they have you on file.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks George, that's very helpful. I wasn't expecting an acquisition :-)

We're positioning ourselves as complementary to Apple's iBooks Author tool, so I sure hope they don't see us as competing, we have no intent of doing so.

Thanks again!

<comment><USER2> No problem. I'd love to hear how it goes; my email address is in my profile.</comment></comment></comment>


Seedcamp: A Global Answer To Y Combinator - <AUTHOR> http://blogs.forbes.com/parmyolson/2011/04/15/seedcamp-a-global-answer-to-y-combinator/ <comment><USER2> So that's interesting. Who really goes to YC for money? People go to YC for awesome alumni network and awesome people like Paul Graham.

So she has not talked to pg in a while, but that's a negative thing in my book. If you can't _talk_ to them ... what would you mentor your startups? IMO, How you treat your competitors is a nice way to know the real you.

<comment><USER3> Fully agree. You make an assumption about that statement....

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Just the fact VCs were in at the beginning is a differentiating factor now?

I haven't been to a YC event, but I am assuming they get as many if not many more investors to come check out the companies.

Seems like some really weak differentiation.

<comment><USER5> There's also the potentially negative signal of the VCs _not_ investing in a later round. They probably don't have first refusal rights (that _would_ be a red flag) but if follow-up investments are the norm they probably may as well. That said, startups outside North America can't exactly be choosy with capital (I've seen founders chase 5-figure investments for _months_ , at which stage you may as well fund yourself with consulting), and Seedcamp seems to be one of the best early-stage funds out there.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> "While Seedcamp takes more equity in its startups than YC does, it also pays them more (YC firms with two founders get just $17,000), and its scope of applicants is far more international."

Dear author, I think if you look a little bit lower in your own article, you will see how you mention Yuri Milner. FYI, Milner invested $150K in almost all Y-comb companies.

Now, go back to your statement above and realize that $72K is lower than Milner's $150K offer. Please do not say that Seedcamp offers more money, it doesn't.

Thank you dear forbes journalist. <USER6>
</comment><comment><USER5> _"Seedcamp, which now has 14 start-ups in its program…"_

Is that only the last batch, or is it a typo? Or have they really only invested €700000 since 2008? At 27 investors, that's €26000 per investor on average. That seems a bit low. Their expenses of putting on events all over the world must be a multiple of that.

<comment><USER7> That's the latest batch.

<comment><USER5> Seems like you're right, <http://seedcamp.com/pages/2010winners> lists 13 companies. I can only assume the 14th is in stealth mode.

Never mind then, carry on!

<comment><USER3> There are 38 companies in total. Have a look at the tabs under Companies 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: Do you get a high when you watch a video of Elon Musk, Feynman etc? - <AUTHOR> I generally do.  I lose sleep and go in a deep thinking phase.  I promise myself greatness and feel inspired.  DAE feel like that?  By what? <comment><USER2> Please don't lump Elon Musk with Richard Feynman. Musk isn't fit to carry Feynman's shoes.

</comment><comment><USER3> Richard Feynman? Yes. The Feynman lectures were life changing.

</comment><comment><USER4> this is a joke right

<comment><AUTHOR> Ummm...Not really. I really mean it.</comment></comment>


Intel aims to disrupt proprietary networks with software-defined open networks - <AUTHOR> http://venturebeat.com/2013/04/17/intel-aims-to-disrupt-proprietary-networks-with-software-defined-networking/

<comment><USER2> Please do not invent your own article titles.

Your title: "Intel aims to disrupt proprietory networks with SDN"

The actual title: "Intel aims to disrupt proprietary networks with software- defined open networks"

"Proprietory" is not a word. A minor quibble? Maybe -- but what if someone tries to search the Web for the term "proprietary networks"? No single thing is so certain to prevent an effective Web search as misspelled words in the searched content.</comment>


Why today's elite chess players are probably better than their predecessors - <AUTHOR> http://on.wsj.com/18unbrI

<comment><USER2> Worth a read, skip the tracking link: [http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1000142405270230433740...](http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304337404579209980222399924?mod=e2tw)</comment>


Color Pivots; Bill Nguyen Fired Peter Pham - <AUTHOR> http://nytimes.com/2011/06/20/technology/20color.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all

<comment><USER2> Heh, it's funny, yesterday I was wondering if Color was still a thing.

It turns out it never was.

</comment><comment><USER3> Once again, (after viewing their demo video again) I find myself puzzled by who Color is targeting, what their app really does, and of course how they will make money.

It seems they're kind of a twitter for photos with ad hoc local area wireless photo sharing. What problem does this solve?

When I take a snapshot, why would I want to share it with anyone who happens to be in range? What makes this so appealing? I can't see any appeal, but perhaps that's just me.

How do they make money? It seems they'll be going for some variant of permission marketing, based on accrued data of user interests. But how does the user benefit?

<comment><USER4> I think it's ad-hoc location-based social networks. So attendees at a conference would form a social network and share comments, photos, etc. In fact, every presentation could be it's own mini-network of people in that room. They could sell ad space to the vendors at the conference.

They just need to find a killer use case that motivates early adopters to use it. For example, it could be used at colleges to form networks around classes, sports events, parties. This app would be very useful during disasters, but you can't build a business around that. ;-)

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> This reminds me of the story about the executive in training that cost his company several hundred thousand dollars. He goes into the boss' office and says "are you going to fire me?"

The boss says: "Hell no, why would I fire you when I just paid $500k to educate you!"

</comment><comment><USER6> They're not pivoting - they are simply iterating.

<comment><AUTHOR> "Mr. Nguyen said the company had taken the criticism to heart and charted a new course".

"Photos might not even be a part of Color in the future, he said".

Sounds like a pivot to me.

<comment><USER7> Most of their technology is in location. Such as the piece that listens to your microphone and can identify the specific location you're in better than GPS does.

They just need to find a "disease vector" (photosharing? music sharing? sexting?) to get people to use their location technology and make themselves available for tracking and advertising.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Color will make it. They are smart people. Bill sold companies for a total of $900+ M. Peter was the guy who got T-Mobile to introduce BillShrink to its millions of subscribers and more people (through tv ads). Apparently they also have LinkedIn former chief scientist on staff. Teams like that win. Sooner or, maybe in this case, later.

<comment><USER9> Cuil will make it. They are smart people. Anna Patterson was the architect of Google's search index. Tom created a revolutionary search engine that introduced automatic clustering and page analysis. Apparently they also have a Google former technical lead on staff. Teams like that win.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> Where does it say Bill fired Peter?

<comment><USER11> _Mr. Nguyen said the company had taken the criticism to heart and charted a new course. He fired Color's president, Peter Pham, and its engineers are building a new version of the app to be released later this summer._

<comment><USER12> I wish they went into why they fired Peter. It seemed like a passing thought in the article. What was he doing wrong? Seems like Bill was equally at fault...</comment></comment></comment>


Travel from New York City Seeded Wave of U.S. Outbreaks - <AUTHOR> https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/07/us/new-york-city-coronavirus-outbreak.html <comment><USER2> Everyone seems to like governor cuomo now. But with time, as people begin asking questions about why there was a crisis at this level for him to manage in the first place, I think that might change. Mayor Deblasio's legacy was rightly set when he went to the gym the day lockdown started - he'll never shake off his newfound reinforced reputation as a weak, arrogant, ineffective leader. But our governor also hedged and denied initially, refusing to close schools and the city, not acting more decisively even when cases ticked into the hundreds. He's learned his lesson now, and the federal government deserves it's fair share of blame, but it took too long to put science first here, and once things get out of control in NY, it's only a matter of time before things spread elsewhere.

<comment><USER3> I agree and feel that especially when all is said and done across the country there will be a lot of changing opinions on what was actually a good response and who should have done better given what they should have known.

I'm hoping that it will be possible to put individual hospital systems under scrutiny for their handling of the virus so that things there can improve as well.</comment></comment>


Meyers-Briggs Type Indicator for 16 of the most successful entrepreneurs - <AUTHOR> http://brennenbyrne.com/2013/12/kind-entrepreneur/

<comment><USER3> There are some obvious errors here. Larry Page is an INTJ (and is very typical of his type); Sergey is an INTP. Steve Wozniak is also probably an INTP - <USER2> book makes it pretty clear he's an introvert, and if you go by the Jungian functional stack, he's much more typical of Ti-dominants than Ne-dominants. Steve Jobs is debatable, but I would type him as an ENFP, and a psychotherapist friend of mine who's getting a Ph.D in Jungian analysis agrees with me.

<comment><USER4> Larry Page is an INFJ. Definitely a feeler. Sergey is either an INFP or an ISFP. If he ended up an INTP, then I suppose I could believe it. Steve Jobs is probably an ENTP (and a clear narcissist).</comment></comment>


Mozy goes Mac--First really useful Mac Backup solution - <AUTHOR> http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/04/25/mozy-goes-mac-first-really-useful-mac-hard-drive-backup-solution/ <comment><AUTHOR> I've been looking for a good backup solution, so this is cool. I'd looked at Carbonite before but it had a Windows version only.</comment>


Ask HN: Alternative to Matlab for control system design? - <AUTHOR>

Specifically I'm looking for a (free) language that has available add-ons for things like transfer functions, bode plots, LTI simulations, etc. <comment><USER2> I think this might be it: <http://www.gnu.org/software/octave/>

<comment><USER3> Also look here for extra packages for octave: <http://octave.sourceforge.net/>

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks. Since I have started to learn Python (for a different application), is there any way to get these Matlab-like functions in Python?

<comment><USER4> have a look and see if scipy/numpy have what you want

matplotlib comes pretty close to the nice plots if you need those</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Mozilla Hubs For Education? - <AUTHOR> https://medium.com/zeduhow/mozzila-hubs-for-education-332ec8218025 <comment><USER2> Mozilla does VR, I actually didn't know about this before I think it'll run well with everything in the future and after checking it out it's like Skype but in 3d?</comment>


Ask HN: The harder way to build a web application - <AUTHOR>

Hi,
I've a project to build an open-source SaaS platform and I reflect on technology stack that will be used in this project.
I already made Javascript (NodeJS), PHP and Python (Django) applications therefore I would like to experiment an other way (more complicated language) to build this platform to have more challenge.
I was looking for Golang, is it a good idea to build it in the hard way or you recommend another technology ?
Thank you for your advices. <comment><USER2> I don't see much "hard" in [https://golang.org/doc/articles/wiki/](https://golang.org/doc/articles/wiki/) or [http://www.gorillatoolkit.org/](http://www.gorillatoolkit.org/)

And you could argue that this is "with no framework". It is more like with a couple of library functions.

Anyway, for pedagocial purposes it is great. No obscure magic.

</comment><comment><USER3> I was thinking the harder way was with no framework at all, not using a different programming language.

</comment><comment><USER4> Perhaps some Java framework? They tend to be way more verbose and pretty dense for devs used to Rails/Django/Node to start...</comment>


Babun: a Windows shell - <AUTHOR> http://babun.github.io/ <comment><USER2> Like every discussion about a windows shell, most of the comments are people saying "Actually I suggest you use cmder/clink/cygwin/msys/gow/powershell/etc".

An extensive write up on the features, advantages, disadvantages, and the use cases for each, is sorely needed.

<comment><USER3> I tried a few of those, so I will share my experience with powershell and with cygwin as well as Babun which I enjoyed:

* Powershell - Easy to use, typically comes with Windows, or not too complicated to install. Does plenty of unixy commands (ls, mkdir, all come to mind, not sure how many others). Definitely an improvement over plain old cmd, but sometimes it doesn't sync with system variables (could be a PEBKAC issue though) but it is definitely usable.

* Cygwin - Works great, I would say somewhere about the same as Babun (I think it's based off of it if I'm not mistaken, but with it's own tooling, packages are from Cygwin if I'm not mistaken), my only "complaint" was to do with how it installs and what not, I think you're asked to pick a mirror and packages, someone feel free to point out if my assumption is wrong or if this has changed, I think it's an alright thing, but I rather be able to not even think about what I want to install until after I've installed it.

* Babun - I honestly had a great experience using it, and definitely used it frequently enough, you would run a bat file and it would copy itself into your userdata folder when I used it sometime back, and came with plenty of the tools I wanted and it's own toys.

In the end I say try them all for yourself (if you can) and use whatever is best for you. I would recommend starting out by trying PowerShell before the rest of these because it already comes with Windows sometimes saving you time, but that's just a solution for lazy people.

In the end I ended up just going all in for Linux since my experimentation with these shells. If and when I go back to Windows (it's been half a year now or more) I'll likely use Babun or just plain PowerShell.

<comment><USER4> The trick with Cygwin is that to install packages you just go back and run the installer again. So you can "think about what to install after you've installed it" if you like, but you can also get the ones you know you'll need (SSH for example) straight off the bat. It's not the most elegant system, but it's ok.

<comment><USER5> I have a little batch program which automatically checks for the latest cygwin setup then run it to check for package updates in a least intrusive way:

[https://gist.github.com/ryenus/4a67039eccda13ee7e1f](https://gist.github.com/ryenus/4a67039eccda13ee7e1f)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Another alternative I suggest to folks on windows: [https://github.com/cmderdev/cmder](https://github.com/cmderdev/cmder)

<comment><USER7> cmder using git bash is what I use and it's almost perfect. the only thing missing is multi-pane inputs. for that I use MobaXTerm.

<comment><USER7> and dont forget git bash inside intellij

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Using a UNIX shell on Windows has very few advantages, mainly just familiarity from those coming from a UNIX shell background. Although it is more verbose, PowerShell is quite good.

As for the terminal, the Windows default is pretty awful. It is nowhere close to iTerm in polish or functionality.

<comment><USER9> The default terminal got a bit better in Windows 10. I've been trying to run stock for the last few weeks (rather than installing ConEmu ([https://conemu.github.io/](https://conemu.github.io/)), which is what I used on Windows 7) and it's been mostly okay. They've still got a long way to go, but at least Copy and Paste finally works.

<comment><USER10> The weird thing is, I came from Windows, migrated to Linux in the past 2 years or so... been using Windows since 1996 prior... and I can't get used to Powershell. I just hate it. It's so fucking cumbersome. It definitely feels like something that was tacked onto a GUI as an after-thought.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> Looks like it fixes the suck (lack of package management) of cygwin, very nice!

Cmder/conemu [http://cmder.net/](http://cmder.net/) is another nice console emulator for windows

<comment><USER12> Been using cmder for 2 years and I can't live without anymore, it's just a bunch of stuff together but it's great.

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> So Windows users are calling everything a "shell"? The 'terminal-emulator', the execution environment, the userland, the programming language?

What's next? The graphical user interface? ... Wait ...

Oh Lord ;-)

</comment><comment><USER14> I find Babun slightly laggy on my system, so my go to tool is Msys2 [https://msys2.github.io/](https://msys2.github.io/)

Msys2 is a fork of Cygwin, it does not do away with POSIX emulation, but I find its package management better than Cygwin's. Quite a few packages are supported

[https://github.com/Alexpux/MSYS2-packages](https://github.com/Alexpux/MSYS2-packages)

[https://github.com/msys2/MINGW-packages](https://github.com/msys2/MINGW- packages)

<comment><USER15> Its package management is much better, since it uses pacman, although sometimes finding the right package is difficult.

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> Babun and Vagrant together more or less completely solved the Development Problem for me on Windows.

I actually don't use Babun very heavily. I think of it as more of a basic, very pretty Unix-like glue. For the most part I just work inside a Vagrant VM launched from Babun. My workflow basically consists of using tmux and vim as an "IDE", so I actually find myself missing very little.

</comment><comment><USER17> I've been waiting for a very long time for pact, looking forward to trying it when I get home.

All I really need is a terminal that, once I ssh to a *nix box, won't get in the way.

</comment><comment><USER18> Previous discussion:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7740336](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7740336)

</comment><comment><USER19> Why would I prefer this to cygwin? The detail provided here just makes it look like cygwin + a preconfigured zsh. The only advantage appears to be the installer and package manager.

[EDIT] How does this update cygwin when you have programs running that use it? Do you explain to newbies what BLODA is? The one thing I would want preconfigured is sshd which this doesn't appear to provide.

<comment><USER20> Having just experimented with Babun over the weekend... the package manager is a pretty big deal. It used to be that you had to re-run the Cygwin installer whenever you wanted to add a package. That's just silly.

Outside of that, the biggest difference is it avoids Cygwin's complicated setup process. You run the installer script, it creates a ~/.babun directory, and then it just works. No need to commit to a list of packages at install time. It gives you a very reasonable set of defaults, and if you need more, you just "pact install" it.

Supposedly it has a self-update mechanism that will take care of Cygwin updates. I haven't had it installed long enough to see it in action.

And no, they don't explain what BLOADA is. :) It's also a little tricky to run rebaseall, since the rebaseall tool doesn't like zsh running. (The workaround, btw: "cygstart dash", then proceed with rebaseall.)

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> Honestly, I just use conemu with bash (installed with gitextensions/msysgit) in windows... except for the /c/... drive starting the path, it's really decent... the paths are a little different bit it pretty much works the same everywhere I need it. I prefix ~/bin/ to my path and setup whatever I need in there.

</comment><comment><USER22> I personally use ConEmu + babun for my everyday work activity on Windows system. I grow accustomed to it and it's a wonderful replacement when I have to do some lightweight Unixy thing without powering up a VM and when my Ubuntu laptop is out of reach.

</comment><comment><USER23> i'm forced to use windows as a host to my dev environment at work and i have yet to find a fast enough console/shell. even when you remove plugins and whatever else babun provides to the standard zsh setup it's still not fast enough to do simple things such as cd with some tab-completion a couple of times a second as i'd normally do at home. the closest thing to somewhat useful i've found is "git for windows" but it too sometimes get stuck sometimes just changing directories and tab-completing. i'm using a reasonably new i5 thinkpad and i don't think close to instant feedback in a text-only environment is too much to ask.

<comment><USER24> Have you considered running a linux VM on virtualbox? I do that in situations I am forced to run windows.

</comment></comment><comment><USER25> Does this one work well on the Surface Pro 3? It's been frustrating with other because either they don't handle the high-density well or they aren't touch compatible...

</comment><comment><USER26> I'm quite happy using mintty that comes with git for windows. Everytime I try one of these shells for windows I just go back.

</comment><comment><USER27> Chrome will not let me download the zip. It is blocked. Possibly because it is uncommon?

<comment><USER28> [https://github.com/babun/babun/issues/464](https://github.com/babun/babun/issues/464)

The zip contains a handful of scripts and executables so I think Chrome is being overly cautious.

</comment></comment><comment><USER29> babun does everything i need to do, but does anyone have altnerative with tabbed windows? is babun even capable of that?

<comment><USER30> You can use babun together with cmder[0] (which is based on conemu and can do tabs). Just today I installed both and I'm pretty happy so far. To use babun in cmder, follow this[1] short explanation.

[0] [http://cmder.net/](http://cmder.net/) [1] [https://babun.github.io/faq.html#_how_do_i_integrate_babun_w...](https://babun.github.io/faq.html#_how_do_i_integrate_babun_with_conemu)

</comment></comment><comment><USER31> great name

</comment><comment><USER32> I've used it before, when stuck on Windows for work, and it's definitely a nice project. However, there still seems to be some kind of impedance mismatch when trying to use a UNIX type shell with a Windows OS. Things just don't feel right.

Still, it's about as close as I've gotten to having something like iTerm and zsh on Windows, and it keeps my sanity, as it means I don't have to use the atrocious Windows command line.

</comment><comment><USER33> Why should I prefer this to Powershell?

</comment><comment><USER34> just learn powershell instead of trying to hack UNIX into windows, or just install Linux

<comment><USER20> Powershell is great, if what you're doing is scripting or trying to work with a .NET API. However, it's not so great when you want to work with a non- Windows host or work on cross-platform software. Every modern OS _except_ Windows has a Bash-like shell and environment.

It's also missing the huge ecosystem of *nix command line apps. I couldn't see myself living on a machine with Powershell and nothing else, even though this is something Linux users can easily do.

Cygwin (and Babun) help with both of these.</comment></comment>


Scientists on brink of curing blindness after patient has eyesight restored - <AUTHOR> https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1114039/blindness-cure-eyesight-problems-doctor-retinitis-pigmentosa <comment><USER2> Clickbaity title doesn't mention that the treatment is specific to retinitis pigmentosa.</comment>


Every single post on HN (HP) is about Aaron Swartz  - <AUTHOR>

HN is mourning Aaron<p>http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151410201562095&set=a.490487667094.301195.506482094&type=1&theater <comment><USER2> The odd thing is I was on reddit today and didn't even hear of his passing until leaving and visiting another site.

There are tons of stories about it posted there but none of them are on the overall front page nor on the front pages of any of my usual subreddits (proggit has a link to his "hit by a truck" post at the top but I had already read it and didn't understand why it was reposted until after).

<comment><USER3> top page wtf

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> I don't mean to be crass but does HN really need to become saturated with so much similar posts? E.g i was seeing lots of tributes flood in, multiple stories on how Swartz was innocent etc.

Why can't there be 1 or 2 posts?

</comment><comment><USER5> I think the coverage might be even worse than when Jobs died.

<comment><USER6> I wouldn't say that. It's not all over the news, and most people don't know about it.</comment></comment>


Lyft Drivers Are Burning Their Pink Mustaches - <AUTHOR> http://www.vice.com/read/burning-mustaches-with-angry-lift-drivers-103 <comment><USER2> A lot of these lyft/uber/sidecar-are-falling-apart stories remind me of [http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html](http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html). This may or may not be the case, but certainly the thought pops into my mind.

<comment><USER3> Yeah, maybe I'm paranoid, but this story sounds like an event organized by some anti-Lyft group for the purpose of press coverage. Most people when they are fed up with a job just quit, they don't hold a photo-op-worthy beach bonfire. Who bought the four pizzas in the last photo?

<comment><USER4> It is a possibility, but I think there's also plenty of paranoia. I would almost certainly buy pizzas for a mustache-burning event—moving away from bad jobs is always something to celebrate.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> With all the dirty tricks going on, I can't help but wonder if Uber is somehow arranging this as a PR attack on Lyft.

<comment><USER6> Lyft cut prices and earnings for their drivers then posted a pretty detached message about in in their Lounge.

Responses and messages: [http://elsewhe.re/XrEY](http://elsewhe.re/XrEY)

I think it's pretty obvious that this isn't an "Uber attack" or some conspiracy, but the result of both companies racing to the bottom when it comes to driver compensation and benefits.

The problem is that Uber has always made it clear they're about efficiency and bottom line, whereas Lyft has tried to cultivate a 'community' feel. It stings more when your 'community' option turns out to be just the same as the 'money- grubbing' option.

<comment><AUTHOR> At the end of the day both are businesses. One has apparently owned that from the beginning. The other pretended not to at the beginning so they could bootstrap their company.

Now Lyft is large enough that the facade is over, and it's clear that they're also just a business. But it feels like they lied to get ahead. I think that's where the frustration here is coming from.

It amazes me to see how much client promotion work Lyft is doing. It's clear that they're struggling to get people to ride with Lyft. Talking to Lyft drivers who driver for both services, it sounds like they're routinely getting more business with Uber (when they have both apps open).

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> _> "But this is an elective service and our culture is taught to tip for elective services. And yet HQ doesn't want to offend or dissuade customers by making the ability to tip more prominently featured for fear they may end up going to Uber. And so no drivers get tipped even when a passenger would like to give one. Maybe that's more likely what's bringing down morale."_

I never used Lyft or Uber until last week, and this was the most surprising part. I was trying to figure out how to tip the driver, and tbh I don't think I was able to figure it out. I ended up tipping them after the fact through the emails they send you, but it was very surprising as to how ambiguous that part of the user experience is.

With Lyft and Uber starting to take off a bit in my city, I was going to recommend it to some friends to make some extra cash. I don't think I'll continue to give this recommendation anymore though, if tipping is discouraged/hidden.

<comment><USER8> I've only used Uber, but my understanding is that the tip is built in. You choose a fixed percentage when you sign up, and that's the tip every driver gets. You can express how pleased you are with the service in your review, there's no need to do this through money. This model is a bit part of the reason I like Uber; tipping is an annoying, awkward, and outdated convention that I would prefer not to deal with.

<comment><USER9> I'd rather not have a built in tip as a customer. I don't want to tip someone who doesn't do their job well. I want to tip someone who does an exceptional job, and I may even tip them exceptionally.

Granted I've never used a service like Uber, so I can't directly understand where you're coming from.

<comment><USER10> You're supposed to tip everyone unless they treated you like garbage. People who accept tips don't make a living wage without them.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> > At this point, she explained, most drivers were driving for both Lyft and > Uber, and everyone was really just hanging on and waiting for the moment > when Uber will inevitably emerge victorious, purchases Lyft, and raises > their rates back up to more reasonable levels.

Since when has consolidation ever been a better deal for the counterparty? The only reason the percentage that uber/lyft take is so low is because they're competing. If Uber takes over Lyft, expect both higher ride prices and lower driver compensation.

</comment><comment><USER12> I don't live in a major metropolitan area, are Uber/Lyft really that big of a deal in cities? They seem like something only yuppies would use. This article is from a non tech/startup related publication so it would seem that they have penetrated the public conscience.

<comment><USER13> Much faster than a cab and Lyft at least is cheaper than a cab too.

I don't have a car right now. Most people though use it in place of a cab for a ride after drinking.

<comment><USER12> Idk, parking and traffic may suck but I couldn't justify shelling out out my hard earned cash any time I needed to get somewhere. Once in a while is fine, but only people with lots of disposable income who don't care about saving money I'd think would use them daily. In cities there are buses and subway systems, SF which seems to be where Uber gets the most usage has the BART which is great, and you can always walk.

Seems to be the same case with Airbnb, I don't see any normal people using it, it seems to be rich people who want to make some extra cash off their nice condo/vacation home.

I'm sure people ask this all the time, but why do these companies have such high valuations? ($17 billion for Uber - really now?). I mean they already generate revenue and are profitable, so shouldn't the value of them be proportional to their profit?

<comment><USER13> I thought I just said this, but I will say it again in a slightly different way.

Lyft and Uber have taken a huge percentage of the _entire taxi cab and black car service industries_. To the point where they may very possibly entirely replace them.

That is why those companies have large valuations.

The reason people use Lyft and Uber is the same reason people use taxi cabs. They went out drinking and can't drive home, or never planned to drive home.

Its true that people with disposable income are also a large user base.

Also in my area of southern California and many other areas, the buses are horrible and only students, homeless or poor people use them. Almost literally. And their routes are limited. Everything is massively spread out around here.

Personally, I had to sell my car, and I have zero disposable income. I just use Lyft now because it is cheaper than a taxi and arrives much more quickly. I also very rarely go anywhere far. Last two times I went to the store I walked.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> _one of their complaints is that there 's an overabundance of cars on the road_

This one sentence contradicts everything else in the article. If driving for Lyft is such a bad deal, why are too many people doing it?

<comment><USER15> I don't know if this is the true for Lyft, but the recent articles about UberX strikes suggest a bait-and-switch tactic (or at least a perceived bait-and- switch tactic). The amount of money you make _used_ to be high enough that people made investments in new car; now the amount of money is _significantly_ less, but people are stuck doing it to pay the auto loan.

<comment><USER16> Bait and switch? The amount I was able to bill when I first started teaching/building websites in "the early days" was whole lot more than it was once everyone else got interested in the well paying gig. Did the market bait and switch me?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> So they're burning essentially plastics? FK them all.

</comment><comment><USER18> >Most drivers were driving for both Lyft and Uber, and everyone was really just hanging on and waiting for the moment when Uber will inevitably emerge victorious, purchases Lyft, and raises their rates back up to more reasonable levels.

This is why one of Lyft / Uber should die already and let the other take over the industry. Ride sharing is such an amazing idea, but the competition is nasty. This is a perfect example of why a monopoly is infinitely better than having competition: [http://online.wsj.com/articles/peter-thiel-competition- is-fo...](http://online.wsj.com/articles/peter-thiel-competition-is-for- losers-1410535536)

<comment><USER19> > This is a perfect example of why a monopoly is infinitely better than having > competition

This is a grossly over simplified assumption that does not stand on its own. The type of monopoly that Google has was not handed to it, but resulted from "nasty" competition. Google (currently) is literally too competent to beat in the search engine space. Perhaps Lyft will die off or by purchased by Uber, but it's not a given that it should, or even that it will.

More importantly, what happens when there is no competition between companies for drivers? Are we assuming that once (Uber|Lyft) has the market wrapped up they're going to benevolently maintain favorable driver pay rates? Are we really assuming that in the absence of incentives to do so that (Uber|Lyft) will favor drivers or riders instead of its own bottom line? Since this flies in the face of common sense and a mountain of empirical evidence to the contrary, _why in this case is a monopoly preferred to competition?_

<comment><USER18> Every monopoly in history got there by cutthroat competition, because guess what... competitions are cutthroat by nature.

So the answer isn't to prolong or encourage more competition, but to expedite the process going from competition to monopoly. There's no difference between a Lyft or Uber monopoly, but there's a huge difference between one of them winning, and both of them surviving.

No consumer wants to use two apps. No driver wants more pay cuts. Just like no advertiser wants to run campaign on two different search engines.

Hence why I said, one of them should win already.</comment></comment></comment>


How (not) to sell your iOS app - <AUTHOR> http://stoicjesterstudios.com/2011/06/iphone-app-marketing-mistakes/ <comment><USER3> Here's what DID work for you -- summing up all those failures into a well written, entertaining and light-hearted article that is genuinely helpful to anyone else in the iOS game.

Oh yea, and the front page of HN this time around.

It sounded like you got your hands wet in a lot of different things. That doesn't necessarily mean you are going to retire on this game, but think how many people are aware of you now and when you do Bullet Factory X (where you skeet-shoot puppies and elderly people) you'll have that much more information on how to promote the game or where to spend your time. It also sounds like you had a successful working relationship with your sister (as an artist) which is half the battle for any game title. So that's a big win right there for your next game too.

I'm not that surprised as the lack of feedback from bloggers though. I think I get 10 emails a day following the format:

      OMG, Super Games Factory, LLC has just released the
      most amazing game on the planet: Dish Washer!
      Wash dishes in amazing stick-figure 3D! Contact us for
      a free evaluation code!

It just wears you down after a while so ignoring something like Bullet Factory isn't an insult, it just falls into the 'spam' category of garbage announcements I'm sure most bloggers get every day.

Bullet Factory is a fun/simple concept, but it seems better as an ad-supported title (it's too simple) than a 99 cents title when you compare it along side other 99 cent titles I've seen in the app store. The bar is getting higher and higher and unless I see something amazing in screenshots or a trailer, it's not even worth the purchase barrier to entry for me to try it. Unrealized value (purchasing a game for 99 cents only to realize I hate the gameplay mechanics) is so frustrating to me, I'd rather just not buy something I'm on the fence about.

I would take the low-sales-since-december-even-though-you-are-marketing as an indicator that it isn't a high-demand game. Release a free ad-supported version of it "Bullet Factory FREE" and move on to your next title. Keep track of the download differences to learn a bit more about what worked, what didn't and where the bar is.

That's not to say your next game or the game after that won't hit -- keep pushing, you'll have a success and it will catch you by surprise.

They always do.

<comment><AUTHOR> I appreciate all of this.

The purpose here was to take a quote-unquote negative experience and spin it into something hopefully helpful for other devs, and myself (hello, hn front page).

The plan has definitely been in the back of my head for a while to release a free ad-supported version. I just wanted to get this postmortem-type thing out the door first, and it's been difficult to force myself to sit down and take a hard look at how things went.

<comment><USER4> I would be very interested in some sort of summary how this HN post increased your sales.

Seriously: we (Blade Polska s.c.) have been through this also. We did everything according to common marketing wisdom about Tap4Two (even the landing page! [1] and real-life video [2]) -- it concluded in 10-20 sales each day. Mostly on the German Store.

We're planning runnig a facebook campaign targeted for Germans, spending all the revenue game has made so far. We will share the outcome for sure.

Your game looks like a lots lots of work with 3d engine, very impressive. What framework did you use?

[1] <http://www.tap4two.com> [2] <http://tumblr.com/x1a1pmizw9>

<comment><AUTHOR> Yeah, I definitely plan on follow-up posts with any changes that occur.

As for engines, I used cocos2d for all of the 2d (imagine that) stuff like menus and the HUD. The 3d objects I made using blender, modified some code I found online[1] to load them into the project, then pretty much just cobbled together a physics and rendering engine by hand. Good times.

[1][http://iphonedevelopment.blogspot.com/2008/12/start-of- wavef...](http://iphonedevelopment.blogspot.com/2008/12/start-of-wavefront- obj-file-loader.html)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Here's my experience with a Hangover 2 app I released 1 month before the movie came out. (it was taken down after Warner Bros sent Apple a C&D.)

1) Reviews are the most important things when you sell an app. I made the app free for the first week or so until I had about 10 5 star reviews. DO NOT use scammy tactics for fake reviews. Make sure your app is well polished for what it does. If it's not, don't put it in the App Store.

2) Review reminders. Basically the user uses the app a few times and they get a notice asking if they would like to review it. Include something like the appirater class. Google that.

3) Built-in sharing options for Facebook and Twitter. These should link back to the iTunes page for the app or to a custom site.

4) Setup bitly links for each sharing option. This helps in keeping stats about where your app is being talked about.

In the first week or so I was getting 3000 downloads a day. When I hit my 10 review goal, I switched to $.99. It's disheartening to see that 3k number drop to 20 the next day, but that's money in your pocket now. For the rest of the month, I averaged 20-30 paid downloads a day.

Things not to do: There are lots of stupid people out there. They will leave 1 star reviews because they hear no sound. Their mute is on. Don't get upset about these people.

Twitter is great for campaigning. Don't write bots that listen to the stream for people talking about the movie that then follows them and does @Soandso check out my Hangover2 app! Surprisingly, it actually works very well. It ran for about 45 minutes and followed 400+ people. About 50 of them clicked through (bitly again) and I think a few people bought it. However, Twitter banned the account after 45 minutes. So, don't do what I did.

Don't write well polished apps that use sound clips from a big upcoming movie. You might argue that it's fair use, but that doesn't mean crap when WB decides to stomp on you.

<comment><USER6> > Here's my experience with a Hangover 2 app I released 1 month before the > movie came out. (it was taken down after Warner Bros sent Apple a C&D.)

Ouch. You're lucky they weren't total dicks and didn't sue you for damages. You have to be very careful with copyright / trademark infringement, especially if it's a clear case like this and you're clearly making a profit on it.

<comment><USER7> Even Warner Bros didn't escape this. They had to pay Mike Tyson's tattooist for putting Tyson's tattoo on the dentist in the movie.

[http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2011/06/tattoo-flap- settled...](http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2011/06/tattoo-flap-settled/)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> I'm an independent iOS developer. My paid apps have sold over 100,000 copies at 99¢ or higher. In total, my iOS apps (including free apps) have been downloaded over 7 million times.

I took a look at your app in the App Store.

Here's your problem: your icon.

The icon is the most prominent thing the user sees when first looking at your app in the App Store.

Change your icon, and you'll get more downloads. Trust me :-)

Feel free to contact me if you'd like to discuss good icon design, or other under-appreciated aspects of selling an app.

<comment><AUTHOR> Yeah, it's looking like a lot of people agree with you that the icon needs work. You've been contacted.

I'm definitely not in love with it, but it's better than the other ideas I had. The problem I was having was trying to depict the in-game action in such a small space. 3D stuff just seems to get cluttered or lost.

Anybody have any suggestions?

<comment><USER9> An angled disc-bullseye exploding into pieces? The actual depiction won't be as important as the graphical touches. Right now, your non-3D graphics are a little amateur.

Also, can you make the balls a little more spherical? They're the main focus of the game and the background kind of overshadows them.

Actually, why are they spheres and not discs? Discs would look better (more traditional) and add difficulty when they rotate.

<comment><USER10> Or even better, use spheres on some levels and discs on others (where it makes sense.) definitely crank up the poly count on the spheres and anything else.

Here's a free idea. Let the user use any photo as the texture for the targets. User just got dumped? Let him select a photo of his ex from his photo library and blow her visage to smithereens!

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> As you're not looking for any sugar coating, after watching the video showing the gameplay you would need to pay me to want to play it. The reason is that there is no "why" to it. Shooting low-resolution textured balls wasn't fun in the late 80's, and I'm not seeing anything in the video that tells me it won't just be a chore to play.

Is there some back-story to this game that is interesting? Are these spheres of mutant gel being produced by the evil Dr. Klaus Scheitzenburger to turn children into mindless drones so that he can take over the planet and only I can stop it using my Mutant-b-Gone sphere blaster?

Oh, none of that? It's just a sphere popping game? There's no marketing that can save that.

Now a killer back-story isn't a requirement, but it would help if it were "juicy fun". There's some great advice here: [http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/2438/how_to_prototype_...](http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/2438/how_to_prototype_a_game_in_under_7_.php)

<comment><USER12> I would say it's missing a purpose, rather than a story.

Otherwise I agree. I can't speak for other gamers, but my time gets more scarce as I grow older. And games without purpose were the first to go.

<comment><USER11> Yes, 100% agree with you and that's a much better way of stating it.

<comment><USER13> I'm not sure 'purpose' is the right word here. Truly what is the purpose of a game? I don't think there's a trivial answer to the question, and I think 'story' is more fair. People care about stories. Stories generate meaning.

<comment><USER12> I can't speak for anyone else but for me purpose, if I distill the meaning, means that I walk away from the game richer.

Eg

I have experienced an interesting emotion due to a story and the characters. Or I have realized a principle thanks to an interesting strategy (happened to me lately with Defense Grid - I realized I shouldn't build the longest path possible but maximize the times an enemy walks around a defense tower; this translates directly into books I'm reading now about featuritis and user experience - minimize the number of features, maximize their usefulness).

I'm not a native speaker so maybe there's a better word for it that eludes me.

Edit: Story is definitely one (maybe the most important) cornerstone of purpose!

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> The game lacks the fit and polish that sells iOS games. Yeah, much easier said than done (this coming from an aspiring iOS game developer). The advice to change the icon is spot on. I'd also advise changing your screenshots (which would probably also involve changes to the game graphics): all that grayscale is very depressing, and the monospaced serif font for "Gyroscope Controlled" is very bland and ugly. You want something more fun, possibly at a jaunty angle, definitely using layer styles.

Your game screenshots scream "tech demo", which is no way to sell a game.

<comment><USER14> Here's a quick (15 minute) mockup of what I'm talking about:

<http://imgur.com/o5sp1>

The iPhone graphic is swiped from a Kotaku article about iPhone motion controls, and the arrows are kind of terrible, but this is the basic idea. Frankly, the "Gryroscope Controls" is probably too techy for a screenshot ad like this, the text "Motion Controls" would probably sell better with mention of the gyroscope in the app description for those who realize what that is and why it's better than what was available pre-gyroscope:

<http://imgur.com/7T9T5>

EDIT: Here's the PSD file if you want to copy the styles or anything: <http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6692701/gyroscope.psd>

<comment><USER15> Aw, please don't do that. I hate it when developers put flashy ad images in the screenshots section; I look at that section to see screenshots, and those types of images are distracting and annoying. There is plenty of room for features in the description.

Maybe it's just me...

<comment><USER14> I sympathise with you, but it's the only place a developer has to really get a potential buyer's attention beyond the icon, so the real estate is too valuable to give up! I think there needs to be a couple "raw" screenshots, but many successful devs recommend using that space to it's fullest potential.

There's a really good article out there about this that I can't track down at the moment, but here are a couple more that also drive the point home:

[http://blog.jeybee.com/post/3518620621/taking-the- advantage-...](http://blog.jeybee.com/post/3518620621/taking-the-advantage- with-app-store-screenshots)

[http://mobile.tutsplus.com/tutorials/mobile-design- tutorials...](http://mobile.tutsplus.com/tutorials/mobile-design- tutorials/app-store_screenshot-design_iphone-desig/)

<comment><USER15> Well, I have to disagree. From that first link:

> Let's take a look at an app that has done this well. Here we have Read it > Later:

Look at Read it Later's page on a real phone and it's fairly terrible: the text is way too small and you can't zoom in, and again, it makes it more difficult to see what the app actually looks like, which is an important part of my buying decision. (There are screenshots within the "screenshots", but they are also rather small.)

For an easy comparison, Read It Later Free's page has only real screenshots, and I find it nicer.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> Just played it. Fun game. Here's what it's missing...

First time I loaded it the menu seemed sluggish. When I pressed buttons, the button gave no feedback and I wasn't sure if the click had registered. I understand there's loading time involved, but some feedback would be nice.

During game play when I "Shoot" there is nothing that displays a shooting event. Balls just explode if my cross-hares are on it. That seems odd. Again, a feedback issue.

Also the menu buttons seem smaller than needed and there are too many options. If you could make it simpler that might be better.

Overall the game play is smooth and the gyro controls are cool. I think this would make a really engaging first person shooter. Maybe shooting something other than balls for points would be more fun.

<comment><AUTHOR> Cool, thanks for the feedback.

The menu buttons do have an invert effect when you tap them, but it might be too subtle. There's also audio feedback when you tap a button, but that doesn't help if you have your sound off.

<comment><USER16> Right. Most buttons I did notice feedback. It was mostly when I first entered the app. Didn't see feedback on the button in the splash screen or the screen immediately after (if I recall correctly). And yes, I had sound off.

Also, when posting to HN. It would probably be best to organize an up vote campaign. I'm not saying game HN to get on the front page, but getting some initial up votes and comments will help you to get others interested in a headline they might otherwise ignore in the "new" section.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> I know how you feel. I invested a lot of time in a game that just isn't selling. Nor is the free version. I mean what is wrong with free games? :)

I think sometimes we just fail to see that our games are really crap. I totally fell in love with the idea of a real-time multiplayer quiz for the iPhone. But nobody else did.

[EDIT]I am not saying your game is no good. I haven't really played it. More of a general comment on how we may not fairly judge our own work[/EDIT]

</comment><comment><USER18> I'm trying to buy it but the app store isn't working right now. At any rate, here are some ideas from an iOS developer with nothing shipped yet, for what it's worth:

Be way more explicit with your branding and marketing about exactly what the game is, right down to the name, if you're willing to change it. Looking at the top charts right now, there are games that show you exactly how to play just with the title and the icon: Fruit Ninja, Cut the Rope, Flick Golf, Feed Me Oil. You want to be _the_ gyro shooting gallery app. So, something like Gyro Shot or Gyro Shooting. It's sounds lame but it seems to work. It may also give Apple a reason to feature you, since you are demoing a hardware feature.

I think you also need a more fun look. The game looks really drab right now. A grey factory is not a terribly exciting backdrop and the balls are pointy. Choose a look that you can execute at grade A level. This is where the "glowing neon" look came from -- programmers who can't do art. Use shaders to make the balls perfectly round and give them some sort of cool effect. The screenshots should be attractive on their own.

<comment><USER18> Ok, I finally managed to buy it and it's FUN! _Really_ fun. You've got a really fundamental and addictive game here. If you are really the only one in the app store doing it then you should be able to clean up. You just have to pollish the look and let shoppers know what it is.

</comment></comment><comment><USER19> Thanks for sharing.

A couple of details - icon (as someone else mentioned). Another thing is - you're a textbook example of promoting "features", and not "benefits". Instead of writing "Using Oscilloscope", which nobody cares about, you should've written "The smoothest shooting experience there is (thanks to oscilloscope)".

Also: get a graphic designer. Your graphics are not that bad, but a good painter could really make this app work much better. People buy good looking games.

As for your trailers - they aren't that bad. As a tech person I'll say: wow. It really looks smooth, I'm impressed. BUT most people aren't technical - aside from the screen they should see a happy person playing, and they should see someone really TILTING the device - now it's barely visible (perhaps even exaggerate the moves so they can be seen on the camera). Look at one of the Kinect trailers. You can't do as good, but you can get close. Oh - <USER2> remember that there should be a link close to the end of the movie, directing to the app store.

Anyway - these are just a couple of things for a good product / landing page. Doing this alone won't increase sales though...

</comment><comment><USER20> Ok, I didn't actually buy the game, instead I had a look at what all your potential customers see. Your screenshots are too gray and muddled, the game doesn't look exciting on these shots. Have a look at top selling games (i.e. Angry Birds), and how colorful their screenshots are. Your icon is not good. It doesn't tell a story, it doesn't look fancy, it is not colorful. I'm selling a couple of apps, and one think I'm sure of is that customers never, ever, read the text description. They just have a look at the screenshots. And they decide which apps / screenshots to check by your icon. I've, accidentally, had a non working app (there was a huge bug in there for the first 2 weeks which made it basically dysfunctional) reach huge sales (150+ sales a day) just because the icon was really, really beautiful.

The problem with the screenshots, of course, is that the in game content looks to dull. I can't really say how you can improve it, but have a look at top selling games.

</comment><comment><USER9> The biggest change I've ever seen is when I changed one name from "* Lite" to "Free *". Went from about 100 to 1,000.

Regardless, I stopped promoting my best selling apps and they sell exactly as many copies.

<comment><USER21> Even switching to free is not enough to gain serious worldwide exposure. It helps, but there's also an element of chance and just getting it in front of the right people.

My current app hit #1 in a fairly major category (music) quite easily when we switched to free, but in the rest of the world it barely cracked into the top 50 before immediately sinking again, mostly because no one knows it exists. Still trying.

</comment></comment><comment><USER22> Yeah, I agree with @rkalla that this marketing anti-pattern summary will likely prove to be your best marketing piece so far.

Also, I would recommend finding a good graphic designer to help you out. The icon for Bullseye Factory doesn't promise $1.99 worth of fun. Plus, I'm sure you can think of something more creative than stripped balls in a perfectly preserved yet empty factory. How about going along with the Jester theme and making it some sort of a factory taken over by zombie clowns?

Your game is technically very impressive, but needs a good theme to sell it. Looks at Nuts for instance. It's probably slightly less complicated technically, but it has a funny, slightly juvenile name, cute squirrels, and various alternative objectives.

</comment><comment><USER23> It doesn't look like you've ever offered the full app for free. Have you considered playing the "free for a day" game to drive some interest? <http://appshopper.com/games/bullseye-factory>

Have you considered updating the app icon? It looks quite dark and flat rather than fun and cartoony like many game icons.

I was a little surprised to see how non-spherical the balls look in your screenshots. If it can still perform well with a more detailed ball model, I would think that would help the look of the screenshots.

</comment><comment><USER24> Having successfully finished many bad games, while gradually making better ones, here is my advice:

You can know from very early user feedback whether the game is going to interest anyone as a product, but you have to stop believing in your game for a moment, or you'll ignore the warning signs. The in-person pitch or demo lets you pick up some details, but product releases give you broader feedback. Do lots of both.

If, after pressing people in-person for thoughts, the feedback is "hmm...well...i don't know...that sounds interesting..." the concept is wrong and you need to start over. You should have something that gives people a foothold to really discuss it and take ownership, or the subsequent marketing efforts won't have much impact on anyone. Online, this is reflected in dead silence. People look and then go away, or if there's interest, it's in something not really related to the product's selling points, like the technology stack it uses.

If there is a product there the volume of commentary will be much higher and drastically more opinionated. From there it's a matter of managing the conversation and picking the path that is likely to open the doors further for the product - pivoting it if necessary. The feedback here is from other developers, which means a heavy bias towards polish. Try to find deeper user concerns instead.

</comment><comment><USER25> Most of the time, it takes stops and starts, failure, heartache, and most importantly years of work and some luck to make an overnight success.

Your Ask HN not making it to the front page? Probably just bad luck (there are lots of good stories that don't make it to the front page). Game blogs not writing about it? Probably just bad luck that they heard about other games at the same time that they wanted to write about more.

I think there's a common feeling that there's just that one magic bullet that's going to make you a success (that TechCrunch article, or that Touch Arcade article, or if you can JUST get into YC or get that first investor). I think all that stuff definitely helps, but from what I've seen the best way to do it is to get a good amount of sleep, hustle your ass off 5-6 days a week, and have a partner in crime (even if it's just a drinking buddy who works on their own, separate projects).

I think you just have to pick up and start on the next project. The App Store is extremely competitive, but if you just keep making better and better games every time, something will stick. Just be sure to do some client work or keep your day job in the meantime to stay financially solvent. :)

</comment><comment><USER26> I wonder if this is the common theme among many of us who try to put apps in the app store: figuring out what does not work. For our app: iEBT (which is an interface to a server allowing you to track your euro notes: eurobilltracker.com), we not only took a very tiny niche, but didn't think about marketing either.

What we did was this: \- picked a somewhat hight price point ($2) This seemed to use like the sweetspot, with what we could live and what we would expect an honest buyer to pay. (who knows?!)

\- we wrote to the canonical forum, where we expected most of the potential users. That resulted in an initial rush (two days after writing to the forum), but it wasn't much at all.

\- the domain iebtapp.com was registered prior to publishing, but contained nothing more then a simple "Something's coming this december" string. Watching the server logs, there seemed to be some who were trying to figure out where the link from the app pointed.

\- after some time, we wrote the current, very limited text on iebtapp.com. Not even with images. That seems to have resulted in a minor increase in sales.

\- with some text on the website, we thought it was time to do some advertisement, and went with Google Ads. This too seems to have resulted in a minor increase in sales.

And here's what we plan to do: \- add Appirater to the App. We have only a very few reviews, and they are not enough to get any star rating on the AppStore. Maybe this helps, who knows. I will closely watch this.

Personal conclusion: iOS development is really /a lot/ of fun. But I think we need to change two things: \- More marketing. But not all at once; results should be measurable. \- Niche markets, that are this tiny, can be a very high risk game. (Especially if someone else, writes to the forum that he's going to release another iPhone app and lets people sign up for the beta :-))

\-- [1]: see iebtapp.com

<comment><AUTHOR> I think the other common theme is that programmers don't think about marketing until we need to.

</comment></comment><comment><USER27> You mentioned posting to Hacker News before, and hey, I was the one guy who left a comment! heh.

I also have an iPhone game in the store, but I've done a little bit better than you have. I made about $8,000.00 in my first year.

Just echoing everybody else's comments: People are very reluctant to spend any amount of money on a game without being able to try it first. You _must_ have a free option to get them interested. In my case, I have a crippled free version and a paid version. I started before in-app purchasing was available. Today I'd probably go with "free but pay to remove ads" instead.

The mistake I have made is that I program too slowly (heh). Eight grand a year for an app is not bad, if I could crank out a new one every three months or so. The app store audience favors having a bunch of shallow apps, rather than one big app you pour your heart and soul into.

</comment><comment><USER28> a couple notes on the app store page:

the testimonial paragraph is awkwardly worded ("... a portal into a virtual shooting gallery overflowing with beach ball-shaped targets just waiting to be popped") and i can't tell how to play (or what makes it fun) from the screenshots. it's gyroscope controlled, but what the hell does that mean?

i'm going to give the lite version a try, but the app store page totally didn't grab me.

i thought "the heist" had a pretty good write-up and screenshot section, for what it's worth. i usually just read the first paragraph and scroll to the screenshots.

EDIT: i tried it, it's like an FPS where you shoot beach balls and twist the phone around to aim. looks pretty well done, but not my bag (i hate aiming anything by moving the phone)

</comment><comment><USER29> Wow that was a very interesting article. Thank you so much for the advice. I am working on an app of my own now and my marketing plan was essentially the same as what you did. I would have never guessed it would be so hard to get people to look at an app.

<comment><AUTHOR> Yeah, but don't let my results get you down. Just keep in mind that whatever you do, it seems like the App Store still involves a bit of luck.

<comment><USER30> I appreciated your article too, but I have a different opinion on the value of luck.

The "big players" don't trust to luck when the release an app, especially if they've poured in thousands in dev costs. They use paid installs to push onto the charts, and then them momentum of the app takes over from there.

It's only the small fry that are scrambling around for a mention on RandomAppBloggger.com.

<comment><AUTHOR> True... but I think it'd be hard to argue that I'm not a small fry in the App Store.

But your point is well taken. I don't see EA writing blog posts like mine.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER31> Thank you for writing up your experiences. I hope that things improve. I've experienced much if not all of the things you have gone through with Infostripe <http://infostripe.com>. Was to be an iOS app but lives as a HTML5 one. iOS to return eventually.

I guess what I am saying is that you have to keep going, market, iterate, try things and as said not give up. At some point hopefully your product will begin to sell itself enough for you to improve or version 2 it.

</comment><comment><USER32> Chin up man, I've been studying behavioral decision making as it relates to marketing "nudging" for years and am still learning everyday. The only thing I've found that consistently works with any meaningful probability is being different. Just like this post. Yet another iOS game doesn't though I do feel the gyroscope is the most underutilized piece of hardware with the most potential for ios devs...

</comment><comment><USER33> BTW the "Stoic Jester Studios Web Site" link on [http://itunes.apple.com/app/bullseye- factory/id408231799?mt=...](http://itunes.apple.com/app/bullseye- factory/id408231799?mt=8#) leads to <http://stoicjesterstudios.com/2010/12/bullseye-factory/> which is 404.

<comment><AUTHOR> Good catch. Updated.

</comment></comment><comment><USER34> I looked on the App Store at the screenshots and as much as I wanted to like it after reading your great article, it just didn't look like the sort of game I would download (even if it were free).

The graphics are dreary and the screenshots don't make it look fun (or even give me a sense of the gameplay)...

</comment><comment><USER35> tl;dr There is plenty of advice out there on how to publicize your iPhone app, and all of it is worthless.

<comment><USER36> So, is there counter-advice?

<comment><USER37> My counter-advice would be this: if you want to make money writing apps, get consulting gigs and write them for somebody else.

<comment><USER38> It's not unlike the decision of doing a startup or working for someone else. You can either settle for a typical paycheque, or you can take a gamble, which might see you create a huge hit, or might flop and bring no returns.

<comment><USER37> I'd argue that you're playing longer odds in the app store. At most startups you'll be pulling down _some_ kind of salary at least. Keep in mind that the median revenue for iOS apps is < $1000 and that at this point you're going to have to invest quite a bit of time to produce something good enough to attract users.

<comment><USER38> Depends what stage startup, not neccesarily earning a salary if you're just starting it yourself, and either living of savings or a day job.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER39> I suppose a lesson that you might have learned is that doing things the expected or accepted way is not always the right answer.

As you alluded to, releasing pre-Christmas and pitching bloggers with free promo codes is so common as to render it useless unless you're remarkable about it.

</comment><comment><USER40> Not to be rude, but I think the best way to sell your iOS app is to make a really good one.

<comment><USER41> While it seems logical, it's not completely true.

If your great game gets lost down the charts before it's seen, then your success relies on people finding it using App Store search and your keywords. From my experience nobody does this, except for Utilities.

Having a really good app helps it stay on the top, but not necessarily get to the top at all. We've seen pretty poor games get to the top (and usually falling down quickly) and great apps never making the top (due to ie. poor shots or description).

It's not that simple.

</comment></comment><comment><USER42> Great comments this time around. I'd buy the game if I had an iOS device. Looks truly fun. I agree with others though that the icon can be improved. I found the trailer very good.

</comment><comment><USER43> From watching the video, your game actually seems like it has a pretty fun core mechanic.

Go play Fruit Ninja, and then go hire the best artist you can afford. (and put fruit ninja in your keywords!)

</comment><comment><USER44> on a tangential note - "This was not the easiest thing in the world for me to sign myself up for, seeing as how I usually tend to avoid going places where there are likely to be people (not a big fan). However, somewhat bizarrely, I do enjoy public speaking, so I decided to give it a whirl."

I thought I was the only one that behaves like that!

</comment><comment><USER45> C'mon man, this is targeted to FPs people. You need a better reticule than that!

</comment><comment><USER46> This article/blog post is wrong. None of the reasons listed had anything to do with his app store success.

Word of mouth was there: and it was 'don't bother'. If it's an app or game that people have to have, most of these techniques would have yielded different results.

Except for a few: like submitting to websites for review... most of them are looking for cash for reviews, so you get what you pay for.

I haven't seen any games that topped the list that were not worthy of chart- toppers... If games or apps like this were chart-toppers, then the chart wouldn't be worth much.

</comment><comment><USER47> 'Most of the major iOS gaming message boards have a section where developers are "allowed" to announce the arrival of their games. This is convenient for gamers as they can just avoid this one section altogether.'

Stoic Jester indeed!

Nice overview of app marketing wasteland. I went thru much the same and the needle never moved, or not very much at least. My new approach is to give away a free version that is slightly hobbled but still useful and use that base of users to launch other ventures.

</comment><comment><USER48> Newsflash: "if you build it they will come" is bullshit. It's dawned on your that you're not getting your message out.

Now what?

1\. Buy ads. It costs about $0.00001 to show an ad banner on mobile. $0.01 to buy on a click basis. $10k to get into the app store top 25. Do the math. Minimums apply.

2\. PR: meet/call or otherwise contact the people who can get your message out and convince them how cool your game is. Or pay someone who can do this for you.

3\. ?

Marketing is hard work, get busy!

<comment><USER49> I would add to the above comment that it helps to use the KISS principle for marketing - (No not Keep It Simple Stupid).

I'm talking about KISS the band!

You basically need to tell yourself that you made the Best F--ing Game in the World and use that to fuel you past all the disappointments in the marketing - cuz it IS hard work and there is no magic bullet.

Also, you should be using this game to build up an "installed base" for your next game. Get fans on facebook. Build up a mailing list. Have a way to message existing users. etc.

One last thing, since I'm on my soapbox, is that I think this whole $0.99/unit business model is somewhat unsustainable and really works to the advantage of the big publishers and against indies. It really is in the best interests of the publishers to keep the accepted price point at $0.99 because only _they_ have the economies of scale and connections to move enough units to make a hit - or if it isn't a hit to just move on to the next title.</comment></comment>


Moving a small-scale startup to Bay Area - <AUTHOR>

Hello All,
We are a small 2-person startup based in Eastern Europe. For many reason we'd like to move the startup to Bay Area - almost all of our clients are based there, living is better, the atmosphere, etc.
We have started 1 year ago and are currently on target to make approx $100K for the year, and our revenue is rising relatively fast at 10% per month. We operate in the "developer tools" market, selling building blocks for development shops (and corporations) in the ASP.NET Webforms, PHP, ASP.NET MVC areas. We also have plans for Java/GWT version and a new idea for a SaaS service.
How do we proceed? Do we need Y Combinator money (or any other venture/investor there). I'm not sure we need that much money anymore, just the logistics and legal issues related to that.
Any advice is welcome.
Cheers, Rumen <comment><USER2> Seriously think about whether it makes sense, and think about all of the options. Your costs are going to be DRAMATICALLY higher. So you might not need outside capital to expand if you stay where you are, whereas you might if you take on a bay area-sized expense basis.

You could instead take a 2-month vacation/visit to the bay area twice a year, for example. You don't necessarily need to move to get the benefits you want. My $0.02, hope this helps.

<comment><AUTHOR> Yes, this is correct and I actually have been there several times, including last month for almost 3 weeks (stayed @ Mountain View).

I'm generally willing to move the whole thing there and pay the extra price to get closer to customers first and I generally like the area. I'm prepared for the extra costs, legal issues, taxes etc and am willing to go this way, just not sure where to start.

I have a 10-year multiple-entry visa, but this will not allow me to move the business, register US entity, pay taxes, etc there.

<comment><USER2> ok, if you're really sure ;), i guess next step would be to look at the immigration side of things. creating a biz or moving the biz should be straightforward, consult a corp. lawyer, etc. immigration would be the most challenging piece of the move i expect.</comment></comment></comment>


Firefox OS for Raspberry Pi with WebGL demos - <AUTHOR> http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/tag/oleg-romashin

<comment><USER2> I look forward to one day getting my hands on an Rpi. That is, if Allied ever ships the board I ordered _ages_ ago (the page I ordered from no longer exists on their site).

Seriously, with all this RasPi news, does anybody in the US _actually have one_?

<comment><USER3> I've got three and they are great. Using one for AirPlay and XBMC and the others for random stuff.

[http://www.hanselman.com/blog/Top10RaspberryPiMythsAndTruths...](http://www.hanselman.com/blog/Top10RaspberryPiMythsAndTruths.aspx)

<comment><USER2> How/where/when did you get them?

<comment><USER3> I got them from Element14 here <http://www.element14.com> and got them about a month(?) later.

<comment><USER2> In the United States, Element14 redirects to Newark. Their ordering process, like Allied's, is, shall we say, somewhat less than pleasant. Here's hoping that the RPi actually arrives this time. It would be nice if the Raspberry Pi foundation used a more consumer-friendly distributor, like Via's APC being distributed by Newegg.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> As much as I love the idea of the Raspberry Pi, until it has open video drivers it can't really be considered an open platform.

Anyone knows what is the status of that?

<comment><USER5> There's also the hardware to consider. They posted a PDF of the schematics but no files or layout. They've promised to eventually but I haven't seen it yet.</comment></comment>