PetSmart's online business, Chewy.com, files to go public - <AUTHOR> https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/29/petsmarts-online-business-chewycom-files-to-go-public.html <comment><AUTHOR> This is a business that does $3.5B in revenue and runs a quarter-billion- dollar loss selling dog toys.

<comment><USER2> I believe that revenue figure. Can't speak to the dog toys but our house of cats spends manages to burn through more than $400/mo with them on food and litter</comment></comment>


Why Boris Johnson Reversed Britain's Virus Response - <AUTHOR> https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-03-17/behind-boris-johnson-s-about-face-on-britain-coronavirus-response <comment><AUTHOR> The original report from Imperial College COVID-19 Response Team:

[https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imperial- college/medicine/s...](https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imperial- college/medicine/sph/ide/gida-fellowships/Imperial-College-COVID19-NPI- modelling-16-03-2020.pdf)

</comment><comment><USER2> Because if half a million people died, they'd ask for his head on a plate for treason...</comment>


Cyclomatic Complexity and Why we don't use it (2014) - <AUTHOR> https://www.cqse.eu/en/blog/mccabe-cyclomatic-complexity/ <comment><AUTHOR> A test for this is part of the popular Go Report Card [1] and presumably other meta-linters.

It encourages break-up of otherwise coherent functions, giving an illusion of reduced complexity, but more likely a reduction in code quality.

[1][https://goreportcard.com/](https://goreportcard.com/)

</comment><comment><USER2> Summary: "cyclomatic complexity is a heuristic with degenerate cases, and some tools don't implement it correctly."</comment>


Hacker Who Revealed Soccer Secrets Is Charged with 147 Crimes - <AUTHOR> https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/20/sports/football-leaks-rui-pinto.html <comment><USER2> Kind of hard to pull of the whistleblower defense with this one:

"The indictment also detailed the hack of Doyen and a subsequent incident in which Pinto is accused of assuming the identity Artem Lobuzov as part of an extortion attempt and contacting the firm's chief executive, Nelio Lucas, in October 2015 to offer him the chance to prevent the release of the firm's documents in return for a "generous donation" of between 500,000 and 1 million euros."

<comment><USER3> Assuming of course that isn't completely fabricated.

<comment><USER4> That's a possibility.

[https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E9%83%AD%E5%88%A9](https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E9%83%AD%E5%88%A9)

[http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2017-05/19/content_294108...](http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2017-05/19/content_29410813.htm)

A case of Chinese toxic baby formula, the company contacted the father after having reached a settlement, to offer him another deal, reportedly 500k dollars, the meeting was recorded, used as evidence in extortion lawsuit against him in the company's local court. The father was jialed for 5 years before exoneration.

<comment><USER5> Some guy tried to over-settle with my dad the same way once, and he refused it, but also later found out the guy had a reputation for offering these ridiculous deals then suing for usury.

<comment><USER6> > suing for usury

Is this a thing?

Are we in biblical times?

<comment><USER7> Many states have laws on maximum interest that can be charged, though at this point there are so many loopholes they basically no longer have any effect.

[https://statelaws.findlaw.com/consumer-laws/details-on- state...](https://statelaws.findlaw.com/consumer-laws/details-on-state- interest-rate-laws.html)

<comment><USER5> Obviously it's been a while, but the local business calculation I observed was, it was always better to not be sued than to be sued. And if the suit was unavoidable (e.g. guy is just nutso-litigious) it's better to have declined all business with him in the first place.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> If the Portuguese were fish, football would be the water. The media industry feeds and thrives off the constant hubbub of corruption and intrigue. Of course he's in big trouble for exposing anything about it.

<comment><USER9> With that said, to me, he's lucky to be alive. International football makes the USA's NFL look like a toddlers' playdate.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> > involving the Portuguese star Cristiano Ronaldo

No joke, I wonder how vigorously he'd be being prosecuted if he hadn't caused National Treasure Rinaldo problems.

<comment><USER11> Convicted tax fraud Cristiano Ronaldo?

<comment><USER12> In Spain, when he left Real Madrid.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Relevant New Yorker article from this summer

[https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/06/03/how- football-l...](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/06/03/how-football- leaks-is-exposing-corruption-in-european-soccer)

</comment><comment><USER14> Can't read the articles on mobile, it hides and asks for login.

</comment><comment><USER15> Dec 2016: "The Man Behind Football Leaks"

[https://www.spiegel.de/international/business/football- leaks...](https://www.spiegel.de/international/business/football-leaks-a-look- at-the-man-behind-the-documents-a-1124452.html)

</comment><comment><USER16> It sounds like some of his specific crimes could be mitigated as whistleblowing, but it also sounds like the main thing he's being prosecuted for is extortion that, if true, is fairly blatant, not whistleblowing, and _clearly_ a crime.

</comment><comment><USER17> To prosecute the criminal or the criminal who blew the whistle on the criminal? Portugal? Comments?

<comment><USER18> In my opinion, which is worth nil: Why not both? Clearly (alleged) evidence of wrongdoing on the part of some organisations was uncovered during this investigation, and this guy also (allegedly) got this information illegally and attempted to extort people with it.

Investigate all crimes uncovered, and prosecute everyone to the full extent of the law.

<comment><USER19> I have a problem with prosecuting crimes with evidence that is "fruit of the poisonous tree."

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruit_of_the_poisonous_tree](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruit_of_the_poisonous_tree)

The incentives become for the state to pony up bitcoin to any hacker that will obtain evidence against alleged criminals and have them "publish" it. Then the state is free to use the evidence without any pesky search warrants or judicial oversight.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> Is there a non paywall link?

<comment><USER21> Reader view in Firefox bypasses the paywall.

<comment><USER22> So far this is the only way I've been able to find to view the article, thanks.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> Honestly what's the point in prosecuting these crimes? Like objectively, in comparison, with precedence, with philosophical consideration to every reasonable extent, there is practically no point in expending the amount of effort that the justice system exerts on these types of crimes.

It almost makes you question why the justice system is motivated or incentivized to prosecute these types of crimes, to expend more judicial insight and energy, to display the overt and given power of government against a crime that has essentially harmed no one to any practical degree.

<comment><USER24> When you reveal the dirty laundry of the rich and powerful, the tend to fight back hard, and attempt to make an example out of you.

<comment><USER25> If some of the rich and the powerful got that way by having a getting shit done attitude, then fighting back is just another thing to get done and why not do it well if you have the money?</comment></comment></comment>


The Couch Potato's Guide to the World Chess Championship - <AUTHOR> https://new.uschess.org/news/the-couch-potatos-guide-to-the-world-chess-championship/ <comment><USER2> One plus of laptops?</comment>


Ask HN: Any recommended online courses on journalism? - <AUTHOR> <comment><USER2> Not knowing what you are looking for, here is a start: [https://www.poynter.org/](https://www.poynter.org/)

See training and events. They do have a fee.

Also look at the books & blogs by Jeff Jarvis: * [https://buzzmachine.com/](https://buzzmachine.com/) * [https://www.amazon.com/kindle- dbs/author/ref=dbs_P_W_auth?_e...](https://www.amazon.com/kindle- dbs/author/ref=dbs_P_W_auth?_encoding=UTF8&author=Jeff%20Jarvis&searchAlias=digital- text&asin=B001JRUDMI)

</comment><comment> open-source-ux BBC Academy has a lot of journalism resources, all free.

I'm not sure if they are all accessible if you are outside the UK though (I assume they are since they have resources in multiple languages)

[http://www.bbc.co.uk/academy/journalism](http://www.bbc.co.uk/academy/journalism)</comment>


The new team member that bothers me every day - <AUTHOR>

So I recently moved back to a project that I really liked, but now there is this new person in the group. He constantly comes in to ask questions. It wasn't like that initially but as more days passed it seems like the frequency has increased. I won't say I am necessarily irritated by it but rather sometimes I find him amusing asking questions and testing my knowledge. Do you guys have similar experience at work? <comment><USER2> Many many years I _was_ this annoying jr team member that came and asked other people tons of questions. In my case, the other members of the team has something like 10 - 15 years more experience than I. Ultimately what worked was it was requested that I try to find out the answers on my own for a minimum of an hour before I pop up and ask a question of another dev. If I had questions that were non-blocking, I was asked to write them down and email the set at the end of the day instead of having multiple interactions. Nowadays, we use ticketing systems and have watchers and stuff on active tickets and any questions that come up generally get asked within a ticket and other team members are able to respond with timing that is convenient for them. If I am working on something, an interruption could cost me 15 minutes to get my "working stack" back into my head if I am working on something complex. I now have folks that report to me. I basically tell them if they are hung up to work on it for at least a couple hours trying to solve it but consider reaching out to a team member if it takes longer than that. If they are utterly blocked can cannot work on something else, my door is open at any time, but if its just curiosity, gather questions and email and I will get back to them when I can. Ultimately, I try to cultivate as much autonomy as possible on my team so folks can, for the most part, solve most issues on their own. :)

<comment><USER3> One thing is 10-15 years ago, Internet was wasteland and people have to ask questions to learn.

But now, when someone unable to spent 5-10 minutes to find answer on SO on their own, make me wonder if they choose profession correctly.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> Correct me if I'm wrong, but you said you moved back to a project, and there are new person. It seems like you are now the new person :)

I think he feel competition from your side, and want to know your level of knowledge and confidence to feel more secured.

<comment><AUTHOR> you won't call your ex "new". :P

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> This really depends on what exactly he's looking for. He could be asking questions in order to understand the code base and design decisions. This can be solved by running some training sessions. However if the person just seems to be testing you that is unusual. It might be worth asking other co-workers about the behavior.

<comment><USER4> Just remembered this article: [http://thinkfaster.co/2015/02/why-rockstar- developers-dont-a...](http://thinkfaster.co/2015/02/why-rockstar-developers- dont-ask-for-help)

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> _" The new team member that bothers me every day"_

So you let others be the driver of how you feel?

<comment><USER6> It is not that simple to _not_ be affected by the actions of others.

<comment><USER5> _" It is not that simple to _not_ be affected"_

True, divorcing emotion from decisions and action is a skill. From my point- of-view, once the bozo-bit has been flipped you can filter this kind of distraction out, re-checking it's state each loop.

<comment><USER7> With a 30 day exponential weighted average on that state?

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Solution is simple - stop answering.</comment>


What is the format of a double-null-terminated string with no strings? - <AUTHOR> http://blogs.msdn.com/oldnewthing/archive/2009/10/08/9904646.aspx

<comment><USER2> so much for assed out solutions passing out as clever ones.</comment>


Sign up for a first look at GitHub Desktop - <AUTHOR> https://desktop.github.com/ <comment><USER2> "Github Desktop, For both Mac and Windows"

lol... I think they're forgetting something.

<comment><USER3> "Oh, we got both kinds. We got country _and_ western."

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> I'd wager there was a big meeting at Github recently where someone said "Well, we won't be shipping for linux" and someone else was like, "Wait.. what?"

</comment><comment><USER5> No Linux support? Really?

<comment><USER6> That seems like an obvious choice. Linux users are going to be cli friendly - an area Git happens to excel at already.

<comment><USER7> Yes, I've never found a Git client that doesn't result in a second-class experience. For anything common, a CLI is almost always quicker and more consistent. For everything else, I'd much rather quickly search a man page or Stack Overflow for a command than search through likely verbose help documentation for a GUI app.

<comment><USER8> > For anything common, a CLI is almost always quicker and more consistent.

I'm also a command line fan, but when it comes to git there are 2 areas where a GUI is nice:

\- After slashing through dozens of files, it's nice to have a nice GUI that gives you a list of all changed files, and manually select the lines you want to stage. I use git-cola ([https://git-cola.github.io/](https://git- cola.github.io/)) or git extensions ([https://gitextensions.github.io/](https://gitextensions.github.io/), although there's no screenshot of this exact functionality) depending on the platform I'm on

\- When I need to explore a repo's history, I like having some interactivity: filtering branches/tags, quickly searching for a commit or its ancestor, search where a commit is included... the git cli is absolutely not the right tool for that.

I _could_ get used to tig ([https://blogs.atlassian.com/2013/05/git- tig/](https://blogs.atlassian.com/2013/05/git-tig/)) because it fits the bill for both cases, I just haven taken the time. Sometimes a mouse may be the best tool.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> I'm assuming they're getting rid of all that native code for Windows and Mac and building something new on top of Electron. If so, why there is no Linux distro?!

<comment><USER10> Yeah building on top of Electron makes sense. As far as Linux goes I'd give it some time. If it's anything like Atom it'll be opened sourced so Linux support can be added (if anything specific even needs to be done). Their primary customers use Windows and Mac OS X so it makes sense to me to target those first.

<comment><USER11> I guess it doesn't matter that git itself was created for Linux kernel development. Oh well.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> Is this to serve as an alternative to Source Tree? I always felt, the old Github apps, were kinda behind Source Tree, feature wise and seemed kinda lackluster.

</comment><comment><USER12> Just signed up. My git functionality is at a level of "can do all of the basic jank easily but need to Google everything else", which I'm super comfortable with, in all honesty.

The only thing I really want out of a GUI is a visual diff/comparison tool before pushes. Does anyone have any recommendations for something along these lines?

<comment><USER13> Source Tree ([https://www.sourcetreeapp.com/](https://www.sourcetreeapp.com/)) is great. Good visual layout of your diffs at any given point with the ability to stage/discard/unstage specific lines from within the program.

<comment><USER14> In my experience Source Tree is good but it happens to have noticeable slowdown and "jank" on both OS X and Windows after a while.

On OS X I've been using Tower to great effect. Unfortunately it's OS X only.

<comment><USER15> I've found Tower to be very sluggish on a large repository on OS X, where as Source Tree keeps on trucking.

Our repo is 4GB and has about 1 million commits.

Source Tree is the only client on Mac I've found so far that doesn't completely grind to a halt on a repository of this size.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> What's the difference between this and existing GitHub clients?

<comment><USER17> Nobody knows except the devs; it's not out yet, beta invites will start to be sent out within the next couple of weeks.

Actually I'm sure it's little more than a 'Github 2.0' client for now, a concept, with the details to be fleshed out after user feedback (hence the beta).

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> The signup form is missing if you have AdBlock enabled.

Edit: Strangely, I have to whitelist the site even though there are no elements blocked.

<comment><USER19> Shows up for me, Chrome 43 OSX 10.10.1

<comment><USER20> It shows up also on Firefox 38 Ubuntu 12.04, Adblock Plus 184.108.40.206-signed.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> * No GNU/Linux version

* No information whatsoever; not even some screenshots or something

* I suspect this won't be open-sourced

Dead in the water for me, especially if the third point ends up being reality.

</comment><comment><USER22> Just a way to sign up for news about it. Not the actual news of what it is or does (beyond vague paragraphs).

</comment><comment><USER23> I'm surprised no one mentioned SmartGitHg, much better than GFW and SourceTree.

It is Java-based and runs on Win, Mac, and Linux [http://www.syntevo.com/smartgit/](http://www.syntevo.com/smartgit/)

<comment><USER24> It's also $120 for a commercial license that only includes 1 year worth of upgrades. Anything with the "updates for a year" instead of "updates until the next major release" is off-putting to me.

<comment><USER23> I dont know about that, I'm using it free for my personal non-commerical use :)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> What are the odds it'll be based on Electron?

</comment><comment><USER26> Lol no support for Linux, it's not April Fools anymore guys...

</comment><comment><USER27> Electron (Atom) based?!</comment>


The Wub Machine - automatic dubstep remixer - <AUTHOR> http://the.wubmachine.com/

<comment><USER2> Thanks for posting this, @camtarn - I launched about 6 months ago and tried HN back then, too. Reddit ate it up, but HN wasn't all that interested. I've since written a bunch of postmortem blog posts, although the site is now running stronger than ever. They may be of more interest:

<http://petersobot.com/blog/the-wub-machine-v20/>

(Also, the site is _mostly_ open source: <http://github.com/psobot/wub- machine>)

<comment><AUTHOR> Yeah, I ended up on the blog after I posted this... great to see that it got picked up by Reddit at least :)

The Echo Nest API looks amazing - I'd briefly glanced at it and noticed the metadata APIs, but didn't realise it actually processed audio data too.

Also, reading through source code with 'wub wub wub' sprinkled liberally through it is hilarious and brings to mind a dubstep remix of the source code... have you ever tried feeding the Wub Machine with its own source code read out via a voice synth? :)

</comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> This is amazing :) I expected it to do BPM analysis, pull out the tempo, then just cut back and forth between the original song and some classic WUBWUBWUUUUBing, but it's surprisingly sophisticated. I fed it one of my songs in 5/8 with no discernable beat, and it generated quite a listenable dubstep track with cut-up vocals, a bassline in tune with the original song, and a nice looping section of one of the guitar solos.</comment>


Open Broadcaster Software – OSS for Video Recording and Live Streaming - <AUTHOR> https://obsproject.com/ <comment><USER2> Github: [https://github.com/jp9000/obs-studio](https://github.com/jp9000/obs- studio)</comment>


Show HN: Magnetiq – Just a nice unfinished game - <AUTHOR> http://alessiosantocs.github.io/Magnetiq/

<comment><AUTHOR> I built this game in the beginning of my career as a Javascript developer. I built a sort of custom rendering engine for drawing on the screen.

Could it be a nice cooperative open source game? Who would contribute to it?

P.S. the game works great on iPad and it should be multiplayer :)</comment>


Ask HN: How does a car company pivot to producing ventilators so quickly? - <AUTHOR> I would have thought that between retooling the factories and training workers something like what Musk (and others) have promised would take months to even get started on. <comment><USER2> This will explain it better than any comment can:

[http://archive.is/SLUlj](http://archive.is/SLUlj)

They partner with a company that has an existing device. They secure additional suppliers for each part of the device, to scale up. They pick an ideal factory to use, one that has existing clean room capabilities.

It will take months to fully ramp up, but not to churn out the first few thousand units. Ford + GE Healthcare think they can hit 50,000 units over 100 days. If Ford were working alone, it would take a lot longer, they would have a lot of wheels to reinvent.

The US, Europe and China may need to flood the world with ventilators over the coming year, depending on how things go. Hopefully the US ramps to a level of considerable surplus production, rather than letting up.

[https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa- fo...](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-ford- motor/ford-ge-to-produce-50000-ventilators-in-100-days-idUSKBN21H39F)

"Ford Motor Co said on Monday it will produce 50,000 ventilators over the next 100 days at a plant in Michigan in cooperation with General Electric's healthcare unit, and can then build 30,000 per month as needed to treat patients afflicted with the coronavirus. "

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks a ton for the informative reply!</comment></comment>


The Art of Fiction: Kurt Vonnegut - <AUTHOR> http://www.theparisreview.org/interviews/3605/the-art-of-fiction-no-64-kurt-vonnegut <comment><USER2> > Four different interviews with me were submitted to The Paris Review. These > were patched together to form a single interview, which was shown to me. > This scheme worked only fairly well, so I called in yet another interviewer > to make it all of a piece. I was that person. With utmost tenderness, I > interviewed myself.

<comment><USER3> Don't ruin it for those who read the comments first!

<comment><USER2> I think by definition the comments sections is implicitly a spoiler section. Those who read it first get what they came for :)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> I'll just add that this is well worth the read. I'd go so far as to say it's an inspirational piece. More upvotes. More hacker hacks.

<comment><USER5> I don't know. I found it really superficial and trite, with absolutely no insight whatsoever.

I really don't get why Vonnegut is so popular. He seems pretty talentless to me.

<comment><USER6> His gift was to tell a story in a way that both entertained and informed. His paragraphs invoked both interest and caused me to think about the world in a different way. I'll attach a snippet from Slaughterhouse Five, where Vonnegut describes a bombing raid, except chooses to do so in reverse.

"It was a movie about American bombers in World War II and the gallant men who flew them. Seen backwards by Billy, the story went like this: American planes, full of holes and wounded men and corpses took off backwards from an airfield in England. Over France, a few German fighter planes flew at them backwards, sucked bullets and shell fragments from some of the planes and crewmen. They did the same for wrecked American bombers on the ground, and those planes flew up backwards to join the formation.

The formation flew backwards over a German city that was in flames. The bombers opened their bomb bay doors, exerted a miraculous magnetism which shrunk the fires, gathered them into cylindrical steel containers , and lifted the containers into the bellies of the planes. The containers were stored neatly in racks. The Germans below had miraculous devices of their own, which were long steel tubes. They used them to suck more fragments from the crewmen and planes. But there were still a few wounded Americans though and some of the bombers were in bad repair. Over France though, German fighters came up again, made everything and everybody as good as new.

When the bombers got back to their base, the steel cylinders were taken from the racks and shipped back to the United States of America, where factories were operating night and day, dismantling the cylinders, separating the dangerous contents into minerals. Touchingly, it was mainly women who did this work. The minerals were then shipped to specialists in remote areas. It was their business to put them into the ground, to hide them cleverly, so they would never hurt anybody ever again."

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> really good read, here's a snippet of vonnegut's sharp wit re Dresden bombing:

\--- VONNEGUT

I said that only one person on the entire planet benefited from the raid, which must have cost tens of millions of dollars. The raid didn't shorten the war by half a second, didn't weaken a German defense or attack anywhere, didn't free a single person from a death camp. Only one person benefited—not two or five or ten. Just one.

INTERVIEWER

And who was that?

VONNEGUT

Me. I got three dollars for each person killed. Imagine that.

</comment><comment><USER6> What an incredible writer, with this piece just reinforcing it. Vonnegut has expressed more feelings, described the world more clearly, and opened my mind more widely than any other author. I remember reading Slaughterhouse Five (the first time) during high school, then again nearly every year since. His descriptions of and thoughts on Dresden in the book and this interview really show his outlook on the war.</comment>


College grads bring parents to job interviews - <AUTHOR> http://www.kdvr.com/news/kdvr-video-helicopter-parents-jobs-for-kids-20110525,0,6458285.story

<comment><USER2> Dear Gen Y please keep in mind that most Gen X managers were nicknamed "the latchkey" generation in their youth and as such bringing your parents to the interview will only encourage resentment (especially if your parents are baby boomers who are viewed as having a "charmed childhood" by Gen X with the exception of Vietnam).

</comment><comment><USER3> If anyone of voting age bought their mother to a job interview at my company that would be the shortest interview on record.

Seriously, what's wrong with these people ? Are they so mentally stunted ?

</comment><comment><USER4> Reminds me of this: <http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/Interview_by_Proxy.aspx> (It's the second story on the page.)</comment>


Is bitbucket down or it's just me? - <AUTHOR>

<comment><AUTHOR> Looks like some problems out there [http://status.bitbucket.org](http://status.bitbucket.org)

</comment><comment><USER2> I really hope their high database load isn't a symptom of a hacking attempt or something like that

<comment><USER3> This was my first thought too. I really hope there isnt some router or switch somewhere in their network that was just pwned.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> This happens quite often

</comment><comment><USER5> Not just you.

</comment><comment><USER6> Down for me

</comment><comment> jake-g bitbucket is down</comment>


WhisperPush: Secure Messaging Integration - <AUTHOR> http://www.cyanogenmod.org/blog/whisperpush-secure-messaging-integration

<comment><USER2> Very neat indeed. Integrating at a low level like that is an excellent plan for a good user experience.

Without diving into the code they link to, I wonder how it falls back to normal SMS for clients which are not using CM/TextSecure. They couldn't just send it encrypted in case the receiving client doesn't support that. So, they must negotiate which version to send (encrypted vs unencrypted). Apparently, this handshake/negotiation works with regular SMS. Anyone have any insight?

Also, I think it is important to note that the SMS messages are only encrypted in transit and not at rest. I believe this to be the case because the article says that I can use any SMS client I want. Also, encryption at rest would kill searchability, back-up/transfer to new device, etc.

Edit: I didn't mean to imply that encryption during transit is anything to scoff at. It is quite excellent compared to what people have now, which is no protection at all!

<comment><USER2> I found the spec from another HN thread: [https://github.com/WhisperSystems/TextSecure/wiki/ProtocolV2](https://github.com/WhisperSystems/TextSecure/wiki/ProtocolV2)

Related HN thread: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6876165](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6876165)</comment></comment>


Edmunds Tesla Model 3 Long-Term Road Test Update for April - <AUTHOR> https://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-3/2017/long-term-road-test/2017-tesla-model-3-monthly-update-for-april-2018.html <comment><USER2> I've owned a Model 3 for over 5 months now with almost 6k miles on it. All I can attest to is my personal experience and the experience of some friends who also own a Model 3. Performance and handling on this car is truly amazing. Autopilot (at least in my personal experience) has been excellent. That said I understand the limitations of Autopilot and keep cautious oversight when it's on. I've head a few minor issues with the car but they are very minor compares to how great the car has been. For example, my trunk is difficult to close. One of the panel pieces was bulging out but service ranger fixed that. And sometimes the car doesn't recognize my phone to start the car, so I need to start it from the app or use the key card. Hopefully Tesla will be able to iron out these issues, and other issues that early owners have had. But I went into it knowing that I'm an early owner and will face some issues on first gen, first year car. All first gen, first year cars have their share of problems.

But overall, I suggest those who seriously want to know what kind of car the Model 3 is, is to test drive the car. And to ask Model 3 owners about the car. The vast, vast majority of Model 3 owners I've talked with tell me the car is truly amazing.

<comment><USER3> I am trying to think of any other first generation first year car that had a problem so basic as being on the order of "car doesn't recognize the key/keyfob and so won't start" and I can't think of one.

<comment><USER4> My first-release Subaru XV wouldn't re-start lots during the stop-start feature... in traffic. You'd have to put it in park, completely turn the car off, take key out, put key back in, and restart the car. Turning off the stop- start was the "solution" offered online, which reset every time you got back in the car (so it was easy to forget).

Also the entire entertainment unit would "crash" every couple days, and not work until another full "reboot" of the car like above. The screen would just lock up, music would stop, nothing at all on the centre screen would respond.

I also had a VW Passat TSI that went back to the dealership 6 times in the first year for electrical issues. Everything from the gearbox sensors failing causing the car to go into limp mode, to the centre screen locking up like the XV (in this case it would just fail to boot when you turned the car on), to the electric seats moving themselves (bad ground). They ended up buying back that car after the entire motor AND gearbox needed replacing at 11mths in.

I've owned a fair few new cars, and very few haven't had issues. Most were so insignificant I just waited until next service schedule, but many needed to go back under warranty.

New cars are complex machines that have problems.

<comment><USER5> VW and Subaru don't rank near the top of anyone's reliability rankings. You don't seem bothered by the problems, but if you were you could always buy something like a Toyota/Lexus.

<comment><USER6> This is incorrect. Subaru is ranked second in realiability after Toyota in consumer reports.

<comment><USER5> I guess I was thinking of: [https://www.consumerreports.org/car-reliability- owner-satisf...](https://www.consumerreports.org/car-reliability-owner- satisfaction/car-brands-reliability-how-they-stack-up/)

and yeah, Subaru doesn't rank too badly (sixth) on that list. I always thought of Subarus as being good, long-term powertrain reliability notwithstanding. The gas mileage they're getting while running normally-aspirated, full-time AWD powertrains is pretty impressive. I can't imagine why the parent's car was so utterly screwed up, but I wouldn't be happy about a problem that required me to turn the car off and take the key out.

I think the advice on getting a Toyota or a Lexus if you want to maximize your odds of not having problems like the parent described still stands. The conventional wisdom is that their reliability comes from making continuous small changes to their models instead of waiting to make major changes, although next year's Corolla hatchback looks like a pretty major one. It will be interesting to see what the first-year reliability of that model is.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> A lot of annoyances, needless complicated door handles, buggy software. But this made me smile and the car enthusiast inside me is ecstatic.

> "This car is a joy to drive on Angeles Crest Highway, and I don't say that > lightly. Angeles Crest is a famously demanding road that winds up into the > San Gabriel Mountains north of Los Angeles. You need brakes, power and a > taut, balanced chassis to do it right. The Model 3 has it all. Body roll is > minimal, the brakes don't complain, the steering is gratifyingly precise, > and there are gobs of instant torque on tap. Plus, the regenerative braking > function means you use the actual brake pedal less often.

> "It's a new kind of fun to lift off the throttle ahead of a corner and > realize you've already scrubbed enough speed without even touching the > pedal. After my drive, a friend of mine asked me how the Model 3 compares to > the current BMW 3 Series, and I told him I'd rather have the Tesla. He > laughed. I wasn't kidding."

<comment><USER8> > Body roll is minimal

There are a couple of problems with the obsession for flat cornering.

One is that its uncomfortable for people in the car, particularly passenger, who are pushed sideways into the seat-bolsters and side panels.

More importantly is when lateral grip finally breaks there is no warning to the driver with a cocked wheel and gentle progression: it just lets go.

As a counter-example Mazda have always engineered some body-roll into the Miata / MX-5 so that it's fun and communicative in corners.

<comment><USER7> > More importantly is when lateral grip finally breaks there is no warning to > the driver with a cocked wheel and gentle progression: it just lets go.

This honestly depends on the tires. A lot of performance tires lose grip very gradually. Don't know what tires the Model 3 comes with, but with a good set it shouldn't be an issue.

> As a counter-example Mazda have always engineered some body-roll into the > Miata / MX-5 so that it's fun and communicative in corners.

I daily drive an MX-5 and the body roll drives me nuts. If you ever drive a modded Miata or an S2000/BRZ or a Porsche Cayman it'll be very apparent how their lack of body roll gives superior driving dynamics while still being very compliant. Not saying Miata is a boat, but it's overly wallow-y for a car of that size.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Maybe I'll get the Model 3.11 for Workgroups.

</comment><comment><USER10> I can't wait to see the apologists on this one.

The Model 3 seems more like an alpha/prototype than a real car for consumers. As soon as I saw the interior I knew it wasn't going to go well, seems it's worse than I thought. Add in the software issues and other bugs they seem to be in countering in this is a pathetic experience for a $60,000 car + years of waiting.

<comment><USER11> I had to look that price up, because I could have sworn the big talking points was the $35k price tag. And sure enough, average purchase estimates are swelling past $50k average and some paying closer to $60k.

<comment><USER12> Tesla should absolutely be condemned for offering options, like every other carmaker.

<comment><USER13> Your sarcasm doesn't add much to the conversation.

Here's _my_ actual criticism: Is there actually a $35k "option" (base model) yet? I'm pretty sure the answer is "no".

I'm not going so far as a condemnation, but I'd like to see reviews of _that_ model before passing judgment.

Also, is it common for "every other carmaker" to have that huge a difference in price within the same model, barring actual structural differences (coupe/sedan/wagon)? $56k is 160% of the $35k price.

<comment><USER12> The $35k Model 3 will be released when they need to ship them -- until then, they're going to ship higher-priced higher-margin cars. (Even higher-priced dual motor and performance models just got released because production has finally gotten to a reasonable level and they're willing to introduce kinks in the production line.)

The same thing was done with Model S and Model X. I have air suspension because elsewise I would have had to wait longer than the 9 months I'd already waited in 2012-2013.

The only difference between the current cheapest 3 and the $35k model is battery size, which affects weight and the max performance.

<comment><USER13> > will be released when they need to ship them

Does this jibe with your "all other carmakers" comparison? I do know that different _models_ routinely get released at different times (separated by months), but different option packages?

> The only difference between the current cheapest 3 and the $35k model is > battery size, which affects weight and the max performance.

And? How does _it_ drive?

<comment><USER12> I gave you enough clues to guess how it drives, but if you don't want to guess, then I guess you'll have to wait. "Late 2018" is what the configurator tells me.

<comment><USER13> > enough clues

Disagree. Plus, I want a descriptive a review, like TFA, except for the car that's affordable.

> you'll have to wait.

Meanwhile, you'll have to live through the valid criticism that they haven't released a car at the promised price.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> The braking, if correct is terrible. It's not the 80s anymore. [https://jalopnik.com/consumer-reports-says-it-found-big- flaw...](https://jalopnik.com/consumer-reports-says-it-found-big-flaws-with- the-tesla-1826198783)

<comment><USER15> > _In CR's testing, Model 3 's braking distance from 60 mph was 152 feet, a > distance that the outlet claimed is "far worse than any contemporary car [it > has] tested" and was nearly seven feet longer than the braking distance than > that of a Ford F-150._

Another article[0] in this thread has more:

 _In a recent test of various 2018 F-150s, Motor Trend recorded a 129-foot stopping distance for the 3.3-liter XL Supercab model, while an upscale Lariat trim made the stop in 10 fewer feet. For comparison, a Chrysler 300S tested by the same publication made the stop in 109 feet._

For comparison, a 2016 Camry Hybrid:

> _Stopping distance from 60 mph is around 125 feet, which is average for the > midsize hybrid segment..._ [1]

      Car           distance (feet)
      Model 3       152
      F-150         129
      Camry Hybrid  125
      F-150 Lariat  119
      Chrysler 300S 109

[0][http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2018/05/pump-brakes- consume...](http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2018/05/pump-brakes-consumer- reports-dings-model-3-lackluster-stops/)

[1][https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/2016-Toyota-Camry- Overview-c25...](https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/2016-Toyota-Camry- Overview-c25220)

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> Man I bet their JIRA project issue bug counters are in the tens of thousands at this point.

<comment><USER17> just instead of points they burn wads of cash

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> >The passenger vanity mirror fell off completely. Installed and held on only by double-sided tape.

That is the most worrying report of all... taping together parts of a $56,000 automobile? Glass parts, no less?

Sounds like desperation is taking hold at Tesla imho...

<comment><USER19> What did you expect? Tape is not uncommon. Pretty much all mirrors are held on with double-sided tape, or some other soft adhesive.

<comment><USER18> >What did you expect?

Some actual engineering of a snap together framework at the very least? (Which would be even cheaper than just taping it together in the long run...)

Some nuts and bolts, perhaps?

I have never heard of a mirror "falling off" of any consumer car unless it was in some kind of accident... especially not after a few months of ownership... of a $56,000 car...

<comment><USER19> _Some nuts and bolts, perhaps?_

It's a piece of glass. Adding such fastening would increase the cost of assembly significantly. Double-sided tape is an industry standard. Cars costing more and less than $56k use it. It just appears that it wasn't very good tape in this case. Good double-sided tape can stick very, _very_ well.

<comment><USER18> >It's a piece of glass. Adding such fastening would increase the cost of assembly significantly.

But at least it would be guaranteed not lead to reviews of 3 month old cars where the glass mirrors were not falling off and making the company look poorly before it even gains mass adoption.

The engineering of early macbook pros was absolutely over the top and ridiculously expensive... but Apple knew that they were buying trust with that added expense.

You can't build trust with a taped on mirror that falls off into the lap of a powerful reviewer.

>Cars costing more and less than $56k use it

I'm sure that they do... but I suspect that the brands behind them have been around a bit longer than Tesla has.

If McDonalds serves me a crummy burger for the first time in the hundreds of times that I've frequented them... I'll forgive them and go back without hesitation.

If the brand new Uncle Ricks Burger Shack pops up and sells me an overpriced, crappy burger... I'm going to tell everyone I know never to waste their money at that lousy joint. (Before they've probably even had the chance to visit and make their own decisions!)

The Model 3 was Tesla's first start in the big leagues... they should have made sure that their mirrors were not falling off after a few months of regular use... that is the only point I am trying to make.

The fact that other car companies use tape to secure mirrors is irrelevant to my argument.

<comment><USER20> > The engineering of early macbook pros was absolutely over the top and > ridiculously expensive... but Apple knew that they were buying trust with > that added expense.

This is a myth. Early Macbook Pros weren't even actually unibody, even though they were advertised as such. Instead they glued two pieces of aluminum together, which would come apart after awhile. Numerous issues with screens delaminating and such as well.

They were certainly better-engineered than their existing counterparts, but build quality at Apple has always been a third-tier concern.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> _" Autopilot was launched back in 2014. At what point does it stop being beta?"_ \- Edmunds

</comment><comment><USER22> Does the car not come with an anti-glare coating on the display? Seems like it could be a safety issue when driving with the sun at the back.

</comment><comment><USER23> I couldn't find it in the details but I would assume because that this is an early production car which had known issues and if you believe the more recent reports the car is in much much better condition now only after a couple months of production. Growing pains, if these were issues on a model 1-2 years old there would be issues but they've only been sending cars down the line for <5 months in any real numbers.

I can't wait to get mine, sure there might be issues but I'm pretty confident the amazing features will shadow any minor tape issues that can easily be rectified.

</comment><comment><USER24> Let's hope the hardware is not as buggy as the software.

</comment><comment><USER25> Sounds like the touchscreen is getting noise coupled into it from the ground of the car being different from the touchscreen's power supply. Assuming that they have something like 12V avail to power that unit, then a buck that gives you 3.3V, so probably somewhere in that chain there is a bunch of noise coupling in.. common mode noise.. gotta squash that..

</comment><comment><USER26> I don't care about the software bugs, software will only get better over time. For me the most important is build quality. And i think Tesla is doing its best to have a high build quality. Maybe for the first few cars rolling of the assembly line there might be problems.

I still hope for the best.

</comment><comment><USER27> Software updates can possibly fix most of the complaints?

Any non-software problems further the theory that the quality of any car lies in the assembly line itself; Modern auto manufacturers' core product is actually their factory.

</comment><comment><USER14> [https://www.autoblog.com/2018/05/22/elon-musk-admits- tesla-m...](https://www.autoblog.com/2018/05/22/elon-musk-admits-tesla- model-3-has-a-braking-issue-promises-fix/)

Hopefully, this sorts it.

</comment><comment><USER28> Ok so, bottom line, some software bugs, some cosmetic issues, some "we're not used to doing it like that" situations and a fabulous piece of driving engineering. Edmunds don't seem to have their automotive priorities in the right order here.

<comment><USER29> Don't forget the Autocrash feature.</comment></comment>


Tell HN: I just bumped into PG and Jessica - <AUTHOR>

Want to know why everyone recommends moving into the Bay Area?
I just went to lunch a couple of hours ago here in Mountain View at Castro St (4 blocks from my apt) and on my way back bumped into PG and Jessica. I've never met them before, but kind of recognized PG from pictures and Jessica, also, because I've been doing some work with Wikipedia and had seen her image as well.
Anyway, I passed by them with a friend and convinced myself that it was them. Then, I had this sudden rush, ran back and caught up to them at an intersection. Luckily the pedestrian signal turned to red and had a chance to introduce myself. I have no idea (don't remember in all the nervousness) if I also shook Jessica's hand or not, but if I didn't and Jessica reads this, I apologize--I didn't mean to be rude.
PG admitted they hadn't started reading apps because they're busy with demos, so for anyone out there still considering whether to apply or not, do it! It's never too late.
Both were very cool and very approachable. It's not every day you get these opportunities, so it was definitely a pleasure meeting both. <comment><USER2> I've met PG too last week at one of the famous YC dinners. He was a really cool and down to earth guy, but it was really exciting to meet you.

And the best thing about him is his memory. He will remember the most peculiar things about people. He may not remember your name, but he will remember something peculiar about you.

</comment><comment><USER3> Didn't they say if you edit or resubmit your app late, it will be marked as late and not be considered in the same way as the batch before the deadline?

</comment><comment><USER4> Soon someone with a chicken costume and a sign will stand in front of YC's door.

Past evidence: [http://techcrunch.com/2010/12/17/dont-parade-in-front-of- tec...](http://techcrunch.com/2010/12/17/dont-parade-in-front-of-techcrunch- hq-wearing-a-chicken-costume/)

<comment><USER4> Ops... I didn't mean to be rude :)

Nice to share the experience... and thanks for tell us the status of the applications :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> cool story, bro.</comment>


Windows 7 Developer Contest - <AUTHOR> http://www.code7contest.com/

<comment><USER2> From the page: "Void in Cuba; Iran; North Korea; Sudan and the Province of Quebec, Canada."

Just curious, why is quebec also excluded?

<comment><USER3> That caught my eye, too! My best guess is that it counts as some kind of gambling or game of chance in Quebec, and there's legal implications. That's only a guess, though</comment></comment>


Elon Musk Is His Own Worst Enemy - <AUTHOR> https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/09/sec-might-push-elon-musk-out-tesla/571606/?single_page=true <comment><USER2> A severe lack of sleep (actually darkness is more the point for our daily hormone cycle) is everyone's worst enemy.</comment>


Industrial Revolution Comparisons Aren't Comforting - <AUTHOR> https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-02-16/industrial-revolution-comparisons-aren-t-comforting <comment><USER2> I recently had a two week break between jobs and happened to pick up Picketty's "Capital in the 21st Century".

It's a bit of a slog of a book, partly because of the reiteration of numbers and historical contexts, but I think there's nothing in there that shouldn't be above the capabilities of the hacker news crowd if they have the time/tenacity.

Anyway, the reason I bring it up is that it's better name would probably be "Capital across 3 centuries with a weird period of two world wars and a depression".

You don't have to agree with the last chapter or two, but it really does provide a great historical introduction and overview and discussion around what's actually happened in economies over the last few hundred years, if not being a bit number/graphy.

Not only will it give you some context for what the industrial revolution and historical economies/societies were like, but you'll also understand why the 20th century was different, rather than typical, and why certain generations have some of the beliefs they do about how tech/capital/economics/society works.

To bring it back into direct relation to the article title: the industrial revolutions weren't exactly the greatest time for the common man, and what we might think of as gains to such was actually the optimism and atypical effects of rebuilding after the period of 1910-1940s...

</comment><comment><USER3> > an estimated 38 percent of the EU budget will be going to farm subsidies. > Farms as a share of total employment are quite small (about 2 percent)

That really is astonishing. However, I suspect the comfort drawn from industrial revolution comparisons is the idea that the automation revolution will be merely as disruptive as the industrial revolution rather than rendering half the population incapable of competing in all likely future versions of the job marketplace.

</comment><comment><USER4> I remember that about 12 years ago I was reading a lot of articles worry about what would happen to the economy when the Baby Boomers retired and we suddenly had to deal with:

1) The loss of their productive capacity.

2) Their increased needs for medical care.

3) The increased taxes as the Social Security Administration (possibly alongside China) is no longer a net-buyer of US treasury bonds.

Perhaps the two effects will cancel each other out and the Productivity gains will allow for nurses and more informal carers to have lower enough costs of living.

Perhaps automated cars/busses and grocery delivery will allow more elderly people to maintain their independence.

If not and prices of goods rise due to trade barriers, I feel really sorry for the Baby Boomers living on fixed incomes.

</comment><comment><USER5> He mentioned that wages went down 10%. But is it the whole story ? what about longer hours at terrible factories, child labor, leaving your country home to live in some awfull dense city residence, possible lack of stability due to not owning land, etc ?

<comment><USER6> The compounding effects are interesting to consider.

Wages have been depressed and housing costs have increased, particularly in areas people want to move to due to more job opportunities.

Owning a home has been a forcing mechanism for savings for the US for some time. You get a highly-leveraged mortgage, build equity (ie. forced savings) and hopefully see your investment appreciate, and ultimately own your home clear and free for retiring there, or selling and downsizing to fund retirement.

I wonder what will happen in 20-30 years time as we see more and more people unable to own a home. Their earning power will diminish as they age and retire, yet their house costs will continue growing if they rent.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> Just this morning I was thinking about how automated cars would eventually evolve to automated buses. Then, over time, all public transport becomes automated. We end up being minuscule parts of a large transportation machine, a bit like electrons flowing through the internet...

<comment><USER8> Buses make a great case for having electric, AI-driven vehicles. It's like one of the ideal applications of these concepts.

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> I can't wait for automation to take away the jobs of people who write "automation will take away our jobs" articles.

We're not far off, right?

[http://thomasfriedmanopedgenerator.com/about.php](http://thomasfriedmanopedgenerator.com/about.php)

Then again, maybe these _are_ generated articles. Hmmm....</comment>


Five rational arguments against Apple's 3.3.1 policy - <AUTHOR> http://37signals.com/svn/posts/2273-five-rational-arguments-against-apples-331-policy <comment><USER2> The problem is Apple has no real competition. They can do almost anything they want without fear of retribution because your average consumer has no idea what any of this means.

That's bad news for all us pissed off developers since Apple's new platform will continue to be extremely popular in which case devs are forced to develop for it.

Google seems to be inching towards being a real threat but they also seem extremely unfocused. Does anyone really need a toaster running the latest version of Android?

Apple needs some competition in this space and Android-based mobile devices seem like a really distant second. It's time for Google to kick it up a notch.

<comment><USER3> > _...devs are forced to develop for it._

No, you're not.

This is what I don't understand from all of the developer "outcry" over this: you're not _forced_ to develop for this platform. If you don't trust it anymore, then stop developing for it.

There were ways to make money as a developer before the iPhone came along. There are still plenty of ways to make money as a developer that don't involve dealing with the iPad or the iPhone.

These counter-arguments sound so much like the web developer hatred for IE 6 years ago, where everyone was bemoaning having to develop code specifically for IE 6, and everyone was saying that they had to keep developing code for IE 6, because that's what the users are using. But, years later, it has finally become OK to abandon IE 6 altogether; it could have happened a long time ago if developers had just quit supporting garbage.

Android/Google are looking for good applications developers. Go work with that instead.

Otherwise, it's just noise.

<comment><USER4> Well, I guess everyone is hoping that if the outcry is severe enough, Apple will take it out of the agreement. We can be pretty certain that if there is no backlash, the clause will _definitely_ stay.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> > 5\. For developers it's about more than just business

I imagine Jobs might reply, 'for business it's about more than just developers'. Adobe's proprietary attempt at creating a cross-platform layer is thwarted. And Apple counts on having enough developers for new apps who already have a background in (or are willing to learn or relearn) Objective-C, C, C++ and JavaScript. It's simple and pragmatic.

That said, I'm a developer and I generally only use FOSS products for software. But I give Steve Jobs and his advisors more and more credit for business intelligence.

A lot of these comments are about Android. Could be that Apple learned from Sun's mistakes, whereas Google wasn't old enough to be around for the full cycle of that. I love Lua and Scheme. I wouldn't be surprised if senior engineers at Apple also love various different VMs, etc. And yet they would fully support this strategic move by Apple.

Why? Steve Jobs' genius has less to do with his douchey presentations and more to do with seeing the big picture dozens of business quarters before everyone else. When you've been seeing that far ahead for three decades, and have all the experience and confidence from succeeding with that like fourteen times, controversial decisions like with Section 3.3.1 aren't as difficult. They are one of 50 decisions that you've made 6 months ago with many different things in mind that won't be released to the public for quite some time -- many of them involving hardly black-and-white tradeoffs (see the Wikipedia entry for Jobs quoting Wayne Gretzky).

Apple has a model that works for them. And free software, free digital rights management, openness -- if it gets in the way of their business strategy, by default they're going to plan around it.

If you really want Apple to change their policy, get the CEOs of businesses who develop apps to voice concern to Jobs. Show that Flash and Lua and Mono or whatever are mature enough technologies from a business standpoint. Make the argument that it's too much of a gamble for the iPhone/iPad 3GS to be without flash support with other tablets on the rise. (Apple is of course betting on HTML5 pretty heavily.)

I guess my point is that: 'Five rational arguments against Apple's 3.3.1 policy' is a good start. But those are mostly developer-based arguments. As a developer whose not in the embedded space, I have no idea what the business strategy arguments would be. But as a developer, I know when a client's use of a library's interface is slighty off. Or something like that. Maybe I don't even know that. Anyhoo.

</comment><comment><USER6> These are rational arguments for non-ObjC developers to be pissed at Apple. None of them are arguments for APPLE to change its policy. In the medium term it is clearly better for Apple's interests to implement 3.3.1, to maintain control over platform and encourage differentiation of its hardware (the way it makes most of its money!). In the medium term, they have more great developers than you can shake a stick at, so they won't cry about losing a few thousand more.

The only real argument that makes sense is that long-term, enough developer goodwill will be lost that they will go flock to a better platform and eventually tip the balance against iOS. That certainly will not be for the next 3-5 years, which is an eternity in tech.

I am not an iOS developer nor do I own Apple stock, so I'm just calling it like I see it. In short, it's a great business decision for them and I really doubt developers will make them pay for it, either short or medium term.

<comment><USER7> I don't think anyone is arguing that this is not a good short-term business decision for apple.

What everyone is furious about is the complete lack of respect for the platform's developers.

Yes, Apple has every right to do that if they want, and developers have every right to get furious about it too.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> _The web is not a carefully curated gallery of web pages and yet we're still able to find the good stuff all the time thanks to intermediaries of discovery_

This is hardly a strong argument, as the main "intermediary of discovery" is Google, and most internet users are all too ready to give up their banking information to websites which have an official looking header on the page. Just because it worked for the web doesn't mean it'll work for Apple's AppStore.

<comment><USER9> So you'd like for the web to be put back in the box and replaced with an AOL Walled Garden of wonder? Freedom can indeed be dangerous, but I'd rather be free to hurt myself than smothered to dead by paternalism.

<comment><USER10> The existence of a restricted marketplace doesn't mean the greater internet must become just like it, as if through some kind of relative application of logic.

The internet--and the real world in general--can host a million restricted marketplaces, each designed for specific interests--and still be free in general.

Your reductio ad absurdum is suggesting that the presence of a gated community in the Hamptons means that every neighborhood ought to be gated.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> All are good points, but number 2 is the big one for me. That was my first thought when I heard what Apple was doing, and I think it's important to keep that in consideration. While I don't always agree with DHH, he makes some good, rational points here. It should be noted that most of these arguments have been made elsewhere, but it's a great summation.

<comment><USER12> It's fascinating. This is the way I look at them, as being on the side of people who agree with Apple on this one.

#1: Don't agree. Apple has 180,000 apps in their App store, maybe a good time to remove incentives for a new influx of non-programmer-written apps straight from Flash? Oh, they're getting rid of other stuff that also encourages people to use other tools than their own? I think they can live with that.

#2: They're not. Tell me where and when Apple said: "You will be able to develop for the iPhone using any and all tools of your choosing." They didn't. They're simply clarifying what's been their position all along, that XCode/Cocoa is the environment in which you create iPhone apps. Sure, other stuff have been able to sneak in stuff, but hardly with an Apple seal of approval. If you're using one of those tools without a suspicion Apple might not like it even before this, I'd say you're a bit naive.

#3: Irrelevant. Apple has told developers which tools they can use from the get-go. I imagine the existing cross-platform products have been too small to have been a priority, but here comes Adobe with something that creates iPhone apps straight from the desk of a designer. Yes, did you see the CS5 presentation? "Create iPhone apps without writing any code!" Sounds like great apps to me.

#4: Of course it's unfair. But there isn't any better way to enforce their rules. Naturally there'll be apps that fall through the cracks. But a "Aw, why can't I when that app could?" whine sounds very 7-year-old to me. They're putting up rules, if you follow them you should be fine. If someone does something that might be within the rules, but they're not sure, they might get rejected. If someone else tries the same thing, they might get rejected, regardless of whether the first guy was caught or not.

#5: Not sure this ia a very good argument either. For me, I develop for Apple products because I love the platform, and I think there are quite a lot of other apps that have been hanging around with Apple because we feel that is the best platform in the world. Not perfect, but best. And I like it when Apple says that what we've learned during the years of sticking by the company because of that conviction, rather than some sense of duty, is going to pay off. Sure, Apple could release the platform to any and all languages out there, implement C#, Java and whatever else might be popular right now. But that would seem to me to cater to the populist crowd, rather than the faithful, so to speak. And those programmers are the same programmers that will move away from the platform when something else catches their fancy. I think Apple wants people like Omni Group rather than the "Oh, lord, another device, another language, who cares? I guess I'll _have_ to learn it, then."-crowd.

<comment><USER13> What you've said there is that you are _not rational_ with respect to your position re Apple. You explicitly say that people should work with Apple platform from a "sense of duty", that people should be "faithful".

This seems to me to make you unqualified to counter rational arguments.

<comment><USER12> Hm, nope. I'm explicitly saying work with Apple stuff out of conviction, rather than a sense of duty.

And I'm saying that Apple has a point in supporting the faithful, as in the people who are convinced this platform is the one they want to work with, because that group of programmers will probably stick around even when some new other thing comes around.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> #1 is a bizarre argument. I can't weed my garden unless it is already free of weeds?

<comment><USER15> I think it'a more "Don't claim you're weeding the garden. We know you're not."

<comment><USER10> They have been. Remember they expurgated all of the "sexy" apps a couple of months ago?

<comment><USER4> Is iFart still there? If so, I call bullshit.

<comment><USER10> They killed "shake the baby", they didn't kill iFart. You try figuring out where to draw the line. But there is no doubt that they are culling apps for their content; "weeding" so to speak.

With 3.3.1 Apple is trying to control the overal UX. They can't reject bad music from the iTunes Store, but they can enforce basic encoding standards, so the music doesn't sound like crap for reasons other than the artistic content.

When they removed the "sexy" apps they were using a rule that could be made specific and enforced consistently. The picked adult content because of the peculiar standards that humans (and especially Americans) have when it comes to sex.

Or maybe it's really difficult to phrase a definition for "college humor".

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> I hope #5 turns out to be bigger than I think it will be, but people end up sticking with what is popular (iPhone) even when it hurts to do so.

<comment><USER17> I been saying this ever since I first got wind of the new TOS. We went away from Windows because MS was holing a leash on us with their API lock-in. Now we're 1-up ing that with Apple's new TOS which takes the MS lock-in to a whole new level.

People say "oh but it will keep the already crap x-platform apps out" to which I say "Yes it will keep the would-be flashy x-platform POS games/crap apps out, but it will also keep out the apps that let me do my business better that run on Android / WebOS / iPhone because the developers of the TOOLS had to cater to a larger market share."

If I am making a tool that takes pictures and uploads them to my website for special needs of people running on the BlackBerry, Android, WebOS, iPhone because it has to be a compliment to my web tool there is no reason why I can't write it with minimal effort and use the iPhone store to distribute it for free with that exact goal in mind! Its not about making a wonderful iPhone app, its about doing my damn business and giving a business process convenience using the iPhone.

Not every iPhone app has to be a super innovative new way to run the world, sometimes its just a piece of crap complimentary tool that's just needed to do some grunt work easier.

<comment><USER18> This is _exactly_ the thinking that Apple doesn't want going into App Store apps: "I'll just put up this good-enough piece of crap because that's all I have time/money to do." They've got a ton of businesses wanting to be on iPhone so they're willing to lose those businesses that will only put out crap. I agree with you that putting out a piece of crap might make the most sense for your business. But it's not what Apple wants for its platform.

A key thing to understand here: the existence of a platform controlled in this way _increases_ diversity, since there are several other prospering platforms that do things differently.

<comment><USER19> Apple don't want crap apps in the appstore? Have you /seen/ the appstore?

I'm sorry, but the undiluted denial-of-reality from the more extreme Apple apologists is making me dizzy.

<comment><USER12> I'd say that now that Apple has plenty of volume in the app store, they're focusing more on quality. I imagine they want to implement higher standards at a rate that still makes the number of apps grow. Like when they removed a bunch of basically web-browsers with a hard-coded link somewhere for 0.99. It's a process, ya know?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> It seems to me that part of number 3 (about private APIs) is bogus -- it's pretty easy to compare an executable against private API addresses to make sure it isn't linked to any of them. They likely have a tool and it likely results in an instant fail and I doubt there are any approved apps that use private APIs.

<comment><USER21> this is not completely true.. when google first released their search application, they were allowed to use an undocumented api (at the time), that detected when you moved your phone from your ear, and was allowed. Not sure if this is the same as a private api, but in general they do reject the use of private api's.

<comment><USER20> Special exceptions aside, of course. That follows with his other point about big players, which I agree with. They get to do things the little guys don't.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> Apple's focus is and always will be: 1) Apple, 2) Marketers, 3) Users, 4) Developers, and #4 has always been a distant one at best (anyone remember the Rhapsody fiasco?) Keep that ordering in mind, the latest changes make perfect sense.

<comment><USER23> While I think putting marketers in that list is a bit trollish, I think you've hit on something that's broadly true. Developers reacted with rage to Apple's app screening process and are reacting with rage again to Apple's banning of intermediary layers/languages. Whereas Microsoft's slogan is "developers, developers, developers..." Apple's is decidedly not.

Apple prioritizes the end user experience over the developer's experience and aren't shy about rubbing that in. More than that, Apple prioritizes having control over its own fate, and if developers using intermediary layers have to suffer for Apple to retain its relative autonomy then so be it.

Microsoft's philosophy has the logic: if we have all the developers, then the end users will flock to us, so we're going to cater to the developers. Apple's philosophical logic is: if we make something that 'just works' and that all the end users lust after, the developers will come to us, so we have to retain our ability to push things forward.

I'm not sure which philosophy, if either, is better overall. But it seems pretty clear which one angers developers more.

<comment><USER22> The reason I put marketers on that list (and higher than users) is because Apple sometimes goes with "shiny" things which are marketing fodder instead of things which truly improve the user experience.

But you expounded on my point nicely -- Apple and MS have different philosophies about developers.

<comment><USER24> In my experience, it is the users who go gaga over the "shiny things." If the media pays attention to these things at all, it's simply because they know that's what a lot of users will be interested in. If I tell my mom that the new OS X has a totally rewritten Finder that follows OS X standards much better and deals with failure much more elegantly, she'll just blink and say, "Oh, cool." If I show my mom the graphical interface for Time Machine with all the versions of my files apparently falling into a black hole, she'll point and scream and call people over to see how cool it is.

The moral: Never forget that people really do like using shiny things a lot better in many cases.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> Extremely well reasoned I think. Much more persuasive than my screeching rants on the subject in the last few days.

Nice work DHH!

</comment><comment><USER26> Finally a rational analysis of the iPad developer agreement.

</comment><comment><USER27> I liked the comment: "Apple is like Venezuela"

</comment><comment><USER28> All these arguments would be valid if Apple was in the 'being a nice guy' business. But they're not.

</comment><comment><USER29> isn't that the guy who likes to say "f*ck you" to the developers who use the OSS framework he created and still manages?

<comment><USER30> In case you are serious, that quote is out of context.

He said "fuck you" in a presentation on Rails where he tried expressing that Rails is opinionated and that if Rails doesn't suit your style you're better off choosing something else instead of trying to convince core devs to switch directions (or something of the sort).

Say what you will about the guy, but he's a great salesman.

<comment><USER29> So Apple is also an "opinionated" vendor, so what? Not happy? Try developing for Android or something else. Really, what are the merits for this guy to complain about it given his own stand regarding Rails?

<comment><USER30> You're comparing apples vs oranges ... Rails is an open-source web-framework. If you don't like its directions and you'd like to change that, you can always fork it without gettings sued ... and forks/clones in other languages have happened and are thriving.

His merits are that he's a contributor to an open-source piece of software that changed people's perceptions and he's also a founder of 37signals, a small business that's quite profitable (which is a lot more than I can say for myself).

<comment><USER29> It's a free market... anyone can create their own platform from scratch. Even you and me. But it's hard, right? Anyway, it's not as if Apple had a special license to address this market.

By the way, IP is far from being the only cost involved in building an ecosystem around a platform (as ESR has explained ad nauseum). So the "Rails is OSS" argument doesn't really apply here.

<comment><USER30> Isn't there a recent lawsuit involving Apple accusing HTC of infringing 20 patents, even though HTC is not the stereotypical Chinese cloning machine? Isn't Steve Jobs expressing his frustrations with Android every chance he gets, even though there's lots of prior art in the mobile OS space?

Apple surely acts like it's having a special license to address this market (whatever that means).

So I don't know why we are having this conversation. Being opinionated doesn't mean you need to be a jerk that prevents others from playing on the same beach.

<comment><USER29> Now you are comparing apples to oranges. Proprietary and open approaches work very well in different scenarios (there hasn't been a lack of experiments in OSS for smartphones for example).

Some innovations, when developed via a proprietary approach bring huge costs and risks (and couldn't be done otherwise) and patents exist to protect the innovators from free loaders.

Now, that's how it should work in principle. If Apple is trying to game that model, it is not up to me to decide. There are courts for that.

And, as I said before, IP is far from being the only important cost when creating a new platform.

"Ruby on Rails" is copyrighted to its creator. So what? Why is it so? Isn't that an "asset" within the economics of OSS? It is, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with it being copyrighted.

Anyway, my point is that none of this justifies the fact that the Rails guy is simply being utterly hypocrite, period.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER31> Giles "Goatboy" Bowkett:

 _I even say (sic) DHH enter the fray, which is absurd hypocrisy, given that the first time I ever saw this guy, he was putting a giant "Fuck You" slide on a screen and explaining how he wasn't going to add features to Rails that he didn't agree with, because it was his framework, and he didn't believe that anybody who disagreed with him on that merited any other response but "fuck you". What kind of response does he think he merits from Apple?_

[http://gilesbowkett.blogspot.com/2010/04/its-his-platform- no...](http://gilesbowkett.blogspot.com/2010/04/its-his-platform-not- yours.html)

<comment><USER32> git clone rails

<comment><USER31> So if I understand your witty reply, what you're saying is that if you give your work product away, you are entitled to do as you please with the fruits of your labour.

However, if you develop a proprietary product, you are not entitled to do as you please with it and must accommodate the needs of those who want to do something else with it and are unable to do so because of your licensing terms.

Is that what "git clone rails" amounts to suggesting?

<comment><USER32> No, what I mean is that the comparison of DHH and Apple falls flat. While DHH doesn't implement every feature he is requested to implement, everybody can just clone Rails and implement all features they desire (or pay people to do so).

You can't just clone the iPhone and it's OS.

Therefore I don't understand the claim that DHHs comments are hypocritical.

And nobody is disputing that Apple is entitled to do with their iPhone whatever they want. They are just not entitled to people being happy about it.

<comment><USER12> I'd say that for most people, cloning Rails isn't an option if the devs won't put it in there. Having access to code is the same thing as being able to implement new stuff in the product for a relatively small amount of users or even developers, either due to knowledge or time.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


CNN Exposed: Paid by Foreign & Domestic Govt Agencies For Specific Content - <AUTHOR> http://www.redflagnews.com/headlines/cnn-exposed-emmy-winning-former-cnn-journalist-blows-the-whistle-cnn-is-paid-by-foreign-and-domestic-government-agencies-for-specific-content

<comment><USER2> Corporations often shape the news as well. When I was in college, studying public relations, several of my professors estimated (based on industry experience working with major networks like CNN) that 40% of news stories originate from PR offices. In other words, PR people provide the newscasters with detailed pitches or even entire segments.

I don't think this is always a bad thing, but it's something to be aware of as a consumer of media.

</comment><comment><USER3> Great claims require greater proof. Is it possible to get some more 1st-hand details and interviews to support these claims?

</comment><comment><USER4> This sounds familiar. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mockingbird](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mockingbird)

</comment><comment><USER5> Is it still news that Anderson Cooper was concurrently CIA/CNN. Is that any different?

</comment><comment><USER6> Makes you wonder which other news outlets are in the pay of the governments. BBC?

<comment><USER7> The BBC is in the pay of a major government, yes (funded mostly from taxation), although it seems swayed by the domestic political class as a whole and not merely by the government of the day.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> If she's such a great investigative journalist, where's her proof?

</comment><comment><USER9> Wait just a second...

Her interview with alex jones is a year old

<comment><USER10> And the article is almost 2 months old.</comment></comment>


How Symmetry Shapes Laws of Physics [video] - <AUTHOR> https://www.quantamagazine.org/20150813-how-does-symmetry-shape-natures-laws/

<comment><USER2> We can thank Emmy Noether[0][1] for our current understanding of symmetries and for how today we view such symmetries as being or underlying the fundamental laws of physics.

[0] [http://arstechnica.com/science/2015/05/the-female- mathematic...](http://arstechnica.com/science/2015/05/the-female- mathematician-who-changed-the-course-of-physics-but-couldnt-get-a-job/1/)

[1] previous HN discussion: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9606497](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9606497)

<comment><USER3> I'm extremely curious about the notions/concepts of symmetry in a more mathematical sense, but from a philosophical perspective. I preliminarily believe that symmetries may be related to the notion of novel information.

<comment><USER4> Sure, that's not unsurprising. Information symmetries are fundamental to how you distinguish between states -- so much so that you could probably just define information to be the manifestation of observational asymmetries.

<comment><USER5> Information already has a precise, functional definition in the context of mathematics, machine learning, and AI. It is the number of bits necessary to encode a message, and that is the most essential aspect of coding theory. I would suggest reading the original works of Claude Shannon to become enlightened about how the word 'information' is used in the context of math, electrical engineering, and computer science.

The manifestation of observational asymmetries absolutely must be equivocal to the asymmetry of manifest observation. Therefore, the format of an observation is manifest via the symmetry of a relation under a set of attributes. Thusly, the asymmetry of observations is a point measurably manifested by the difference in attributes. That allows for the derivation of: a union operation over the observations; an intersection operation over the asymmetries; and a manifest closure property. This is how one may define points of 'data' in the sense that is absolutely congruent with the terms database, big data, or data science.

Information Theory and Relational Algebra have some overlap, but they are not completely intertwined. The subjects of Abstract Algebra and Information Geometry are there at the intersection, but they still too terminologically distinct to be taught in tandem. The former subject is still best learned in French; whereas the latter subject is still best learned in Japanese. It is possible for one to teach themselves these subjects by machine translation, if they have a deep understanding for the grammar and history of each language. Deep learning of this sort is a kind of meditative activity, the type of which is only available to the most erudite thinkers.

<comment><USER6> > Information already has a precise, functional definition in the context of > mathematics, machine learning, and AI. It is the number of bits necessary to > encode a message,

Precise?? You're joking right? Given that the number of bits necessary to encode a message is highly depending on the way your message is interpreted..

If your bits are interpreted as either black or white, I need only 1 bit to send a message indicating a color, if your bits are ASCII strings I need more bits to send the same information..

<comment><USER5> >Precise?? You're joking right? Given that the number of bits necessary to encode a message is highly depending on the way your message is interpreted..

The interpretation is not the language. If a message consists of words, or is mapped thereof; then there is an exact number of bits necessary.

>If your bits are interpreted as either black or white, I need only 1 bit to send a message indicating a color, if your bits are ASCII strings I need more bits to send the same information..

It seems like you are not familiar with the definition of bits. It is the binary measure implicit to boolean algebra. Bits are not specifically ASCII strings, because the former is a subset of the latter's characters.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Symmetry can also be very useful in the context of programming. In particular I find loop invariants to be a very useful tool when building convoluted looping algorithms - I'd guess you could formulate a similar symmetry for recursive algorithms.</comment>


The simplest way to build a command line tool in Python - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/piccolo-orm/targ <comment><AUTHOR> I made this library for making command line tools in Python. It just uses type annotations and docstrings. Hopefully it's useful for other people. I've had fun using it.</comment>


Ask HN: How do you suggest we technologists get our industry back? - <AUTHOR>

At least on Hacker News, it's well-known that we (technologists) work in conditions of low autonomy, answer to arrogant non-technical forces, don't get to pick our tools or projects, are often forced to deal with awful legacy complexity that any reasonable person would discard, and generally have pretty miserable working lives. We make half-decent (but not great, especially considering what we have to deal with) money, but often find that some VP/NTWTFK (Non-Technical Who-The-Fuck-Knows) is getting higher salary and ten times as much equity.
It has to end. And we have the talent to stop the world if we want to do so.
I'd like to ask the crowd, to source some new ideas: what do you suggest that we do to win back the autonomy that is rightfully ours? What's the best idea you can come up with for how to restore our industry to decency? How do we get back the autonomy originally associated with software development, when it was an R&D job? How do we professionalize to such an extent that we answer only to our own, as attorneys and physicians do? What do we do to shame (one hopes, out of existence) the phony startups where VP/NTWTFK's outearn programmers by a factor of 10?
Do you have a personal plan to contribute to fixing this? Or am I completely insane for thinking this cause is still worth fighting for? <comment><USER3> I honestly have no idea what you are talking about.

I work for a big technology company, I am one of the lowest level of "technologists" (a few steps above an intern). I get paid over twice the average household income of the surrounding area...all that money for just me! And that is just my base salary!

On top of that I get bonuses, to travel around the country (and occasionally to a different country) and stock.

And what do I have to "deal with"?? I get into work around 10am, we do standup, I grab a coffee, have a few meetings maybe, code away, a design review, grab an hour long relaxed lunch with my team at a nearby restaurant, back to work, code, maybe the odd board game or table football game, design etc. 6-7pm head off home (some of my team get in at 8 and are home by 4-5 - <USER2> prefer the later mornings), back to my lovely, spacious Downtown apartment, go for a walk with my girlfriend along the waterfront.

I find my work interesting - I don't choose the projects, people with business goals and spreadsheets do that, but I find there are fun challenges everywhere when you start talking to people. And I get dedicated time to explore my own ideas.

On top of that I get 3 weeks paid vacation, plus statutory holidays (2 weeks less than I got in europe.. but meh), not forgetting the weekends.

99.9999% (probably more) of people on this planet work harder, for less (or no) money, struggle to live day by day and I spent $10 a day ($300 a month, $3600 a year!!) on coffee.

I have no plans to "rally against" that.

<comment><AUTHOR> This whole "Many people have it worse off, so technologists should accept being a conquered, plundered people" attitude just reeks of mediocrity. I can't stand it. It makes me physically ill.

A couple things. First, you have to _consistently_ come out in the top 10-20% of the project allocation heap to have a career in this industry. You realize that almost no one can have top-10% luck over a period of 20 years, right? If you don't get the absolute best projects available, you become a second-class citizen around 28 because you're competing against people who were politically fortunate enough to get real work. Have fun with that. Unless you die early, you _will_ turn 40, and unless you rape the project-allocation game into ribbons, you won't have high-enough quality work experience to survive what this industry considers "advanced" age. You'll be a 40-year-old with the typical dogshit work experience (that only makes you a bitter loser; you don't learn anything from it) that most people get, competing against 25-year-olds who haven't learned yet that the game is rigged against them.

Second, at least in New York or the Bay Area, no programmer gets to raise kids. We are, as a people, being _sterilized_ by the cocksuckers who control this shitpile of an industry. To make raise-a-family money, you have to become more like one of those parasitic VP/NTWTFK's that I talked about who get huge paychecks just for using the bathroom. If you do actual work, you'll never make enough money to, for example, own a house in the Bay Area. It's the VP/NTWTFK's who are driving up those prices, not legitimate people.

Unless you're extremely fortunate (1-in-1000) and work for a startup that IPO's, you'll see things exactly as I do in a matter of a few years. Big fucking deal, you get to spend $10 a day on coffee. Yeah, you're fucking Marie Antoinette. Congratulations on your awesome life.

Did the oppressed people of Paris in the 1780s say, "You know, they have it worse in Somalia", and therefore decide that their ruling classes were wonderful human beings? No. They took responsibility for making their lives better, and they went out and fucking did something.

<comment><USER4> The comment you're replying to was implying that the _median_ job in software development tends to be significantly better than most other available jobs. Software developers are alone among professionals in the control they have over their own schedules. They're in far more stable demand than lawyers are. They work vastly better hours than doctors. And, obviously, software developers don't come home every day barely able to move from the physical toll of their job.

It seems like what you did with your comment was to reframe _his_ comment, without his consent, so that instead of the median it referred to some platonic ideal you have regarding the role software developers should have in the market.

What do you think line of business devs at Global 2000 companies do all day? Hew nuggets of C#/ADO code out of solid rock in a dank tunnel with only the lamp affixed to their helmet to see it with? No, they lead exactly the life the parent commenter said they do.

For that matter, how many 40 year old developers do you know? The last 8 years of my career have been a tour of every conceivable kind of software developer, and I've met lots and lots of 40 year olds, and 50 year olds, and (gasp) older. I do not know a lot of 40 year old developers who think of their lot as "dogshit". Your ageism assessment isn't even valid in startupland! Look at the stats on tech entrepreneurship. The only place 40 year olds are disfavored is on message boards, and (if we want to stipulate any part of your argument) on the small subset of startups that are important primarily to message board nerds.

No (P)rofession has an easier time raising children than software developers. Corp lawyers have 50%+ travel burdens and work 60-70 hour weeks. High-paid accountants work for firms that similarly keep them on the road half the year. Doctors? Heh. I raised 2 kids _while starting two startups and working for a third_ and saw my kids all the time. And that's _startupland_. Most developers do - not - work - for - startups. Line of business software developers at State Farm do not work 70 hour weeks.

 _edited for brevity_

<comment><USER5> Dude! I was just browsing and upvoted this for the talk of onion-parody-level sense of entitlement and the all-caps reminder the OP is not, in fact, Gavroche. Edited for butchery!

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> This problem is not confined to the technology industry. Many other skilled professionals such as psychiatrists and teachers are in the same situation.

Making a trade guild is one option, but it may cause one set of useless bureaucrats to be replaced by another. I think it is a good thing that even college dropouts can be successful in the software industry.

One option may be to change the terminology that we use to talk about computer programming. The terminology used to explain technology was designed to sell computers back when computers were foreign, frightening, and expensive. Words like "Enterprise Architecture" were designed to sell millions of dollars worth of computers and make it seem as if someone with little knowledge would never be in over their head in dense logic.

Technological populism got a computer into everybody's pocket, but I think that instead of watering down logic when presenting computers to a nontechnical person, we should take the core of programming and have them look at each aspect slowly and clearly. This will show people that although anybody can understand computers, you yourself do not. Although C is complicated, a topic such as how ascii characters work is understandable by a nontechnical person.

Also, programmers could simply refuse to work with jerks, but if that is not happening during a huge boom, then it will definitely not happen once the industry looses steam.

This is a good article on the topic by Adm. Hyman "I would sink them all" Rickover. <http://www.wholeearth.com/issue/2034/article/399/doing.a.job>

</comment><comment><USER7> If you want to spread philosophy XYZ in the business world, you have to prove that it can make money. The reason we originally shifted from 60 hour weeks to 40 hour weeks was nothing moralistic, it was because Ford found that 40 hour weeks were more profitable than 60 hour weeks.

Now as a rule, programmers _generally_ are good at execution but tend to execute on problems no one cares about. The #1 cause of startup failure is not failure to execute-it's good execution on a problem that nobody cares about.

That's why non-technical VPs earn so much. It's because the skill of picking great problems and managing people is massively valuable. If it weren't, then all the companies that emphasized market over technology would go bankrupt, and companies that emphasized technology over market would succeed.

Now, someone who can understand what people want _and_ understand what's possible with technology is significantly more valuable than someone with either individual skill. That's because they can combine what's valuable and what's just become possible. This is a rare combination-Steve Jobs and Elon Musk are two people who've executed this really well.

My personal plan is to learn this combination of skills and drive technology that's both extremely valuable and at the very edge of what's possible. We'll see how far I get.

</comment><comment><USER8> "WE technologists","it's well-known that WE","answer to arrogant non-technical forces","forced","miserable working lives","half-decent money","what WE have to deal with","non-technical Who-The-Fuck-Knows","We have the talent to stop the world if WE want to do so","WE do to win back","rightfully ours","restore OUR industry","WE answer only to our own","WE do to SHAME...out of existence","phony startups".

How about you start showing some respect for other people's work?We have something called Diversity, ok?Some people are engineers, some doctors..some make more money than you, some don't.Fair or not, this is how the world works.

You can't just come here and say "WE" in order to make us feel we are on the same boat.Speak for yourself.And your attitude makes me sick.I mean, who do you think you are?the architect of the world(speaking of arrogance)?Who are you to say what's "rightfully yours" and what's not?Your post is so insulting that I won't even bother talking about the rest of it.No wonder you're so frustrated.

One thing is for sure though: I would never work with someone with a personality like yours.And by the looks of it not many people do.

</comment><comment><USER9> After careful consideration I've come up with a three step plan to solve all of this -

1) Love yourself, but less. We can't "stop the world if you want to", almost 100% of developers just aren't that special, most struggle to make the same CRUD apps over and over again.

2) If you don't like your job find another one, if you've got the stones create your own job, if you can't do either of those things then find something to look forward to when you clock out.

3) If someone above you undeservedly makes more than you go to www.facebook.com and join the group called "Everyone except Larry Ellison".

Then you'll find peace.

</comment><comment><USER10> The plan is to start a dead simple non-tech business. Like build dog houses in the back yard. I'd make just enough money for me. None of those dummies want to be VP of dog house development.

</comment><comment><USER11> I find it amusing that you think attorneys and physicians only answer to their own. Attorneys are sandwiched between clients and judges, and physicians have regulation to deal with, to say nothing of the fact that at anytime they could get sued into oblivion based on a simple mistake.

"Technologists" are worthless independent of the business value they create.

<comment><AUTHOR> Attorneys have clients, but it's not the same thing... or, at least, it's not supposed to be. Attorneys can lose clients and some amount of income, but no client is supposed to have career-wrecking managerial power over an attorney.

Even for in-house corporate attorneys, their managers are other attorneys, all the way up to the general counsel, who answers to the board (not the CEO) itself; the board is the GC's client.

Of course, if you manage your client list badly and end up dependent on one client, you essentially have a boss. In theory, it's not supposed to be that way; in practice, obviously it can be. But the aspiration (lawyers answer only to their own) is noble.</comment></comment>