With Windows 10, Microsoft Disregards User Choice and Privacy - <AUTHOR> https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2016/08/windows-10-microsoft-blatantly-disregards-user-choice-and-privacy-deep-dive <comment><USER9> Some highlights:

      Microsoft installed an app in users' system trays advertising
      the free upgrade to Windows 10.

      Not satisfied, the company eventually made Windows 10 a
      recommended update so users receiving critical security updates
      were now also downloading an entirely new operating system onto
      their machines without their knowledge.

This is essentially equivalent to saying: _You 've been running whatever version of Windows, but we'll trick you into installing Windows 10_.

      Specifically, when prompted with a Windows 10 update, if the
      user chose to decline it by hitting the 'X' in the upper right
      hand corner, Microsoft interpreted that as consent to download
      Windows 10.

_The previous trick didn 't work on all of you, so we'll go on to change the default behavior of our dialog boxes in order to trick you into installing Windows 10._

      By default, Windows 10 sends an unprecedented amount of usage
      data back to Microsoft, and the company claims most of it is to
      "personalize" the software by feeding it to the OS assistant
      called Cortana.

      And while users can opt-out of some of these settings, it is
      not a guarantee that your computer will stop talking to
      Microsoft's servers.

This probably explains it all.

\--

Microsoft appears to have learnt a lot from LinkedIn [0].

[0] [https://twitter.com/darylginn/status/590664399041519617](https://twitter.com/darylginn/status/590664399041519617)

<comment><USER10> As a Microsoft employee, this W10 force upgrade things is the single thing that pisses me off the most by far... It goes against everything that we are trying to promote/change. Sometimes I'm really wondering if we work for the same company (I'm not in the Windows division). I feel like all the effort we put in investing in open source, being more open, and just generally a more empathic company is totally destroyed by this w10 fiasco.

<comment><USER11> I believe this famous comic said it best:

[http://www.bonkersworld.net/organizational- charts/](http://www.bonkersworld.net/organizational-charts/)

For all Satya's promises, nothing _really_ changed.

<comment><USER12> off topic, but on the Oracle one, "legal" should be "sales"

<comment><USER11> Assuming engineering was size X, sales would be 10X and legal 40X. Oracle licensing and legal are unbelievable snakes.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> I upgraded willingly so the deceptive upgrade practices, while deplorable, didn't really affect me. What does affect me is that Microsoft refuses to let me control my computer.

\- If you turn off Windows Defender Real Time Protection it explicitly tells you "You can turn this off, but if it's off for a while we'll turn it back on". It turns itself on upon next reboot, it seems.

\- You can't turn off Windows Update. It will always end up downloading new updates.

\- Once an update is scheduled for a restart you can only delay a few times and it will then force the restart.

\- You can't remove worthless apps like Microsoft Groove and OneDrive integration.

\- They are continuing to try to weasel the Windows Store into my life by buying up or forcing exclusives (games), with all the drawbacks of UWP.

Microsoft, I promise I know what I'm doing and the risks and benefits of each action I want to perform. I own my hardware, I'd like to control the software I licensed. I am well aware of other OS options and I use Linux & OS X often, but neither can compare to the gaming library available on Windows which is my primary use case for my desktop.

<comment><USER14> Everything you've listed is addressable by enterprise users in an AD environment. I.E., Microsoft's real customers. Using a copy of Windows 10 with no Cortana, Auto-updates, Groove, or Windows Defender right now.

<comment><USER15> Yes. If you want that control, all you have to do is buy a subscription [0]. $7 per month isn't that much to be able to control your own computer is it? That's only $84 per year or $252 every 3 years -- it's practically a discount for buying an upgrade every 3 years!

[0] [http://www.computerworld.com/article/2867542/microsoft- touts...](http://www.computerworld.com/article/2867542/microsoft-touts-7-per- user-monthly-pricing-for-windows-subscriptions.html)

<comment><USER16> It comes with Office365 too! I'd totally buy this for the added control over home edition, but it looks like Microsoft only sells this license in bulk to big businesses in my region. Then again...it turns out that you can upgrade to enterprise without a valid key [1] and that there are no real penalties for doing this [2]. So, shrug, I guess they don't want my money - and I'm not going to use an OS that turns me into a mineable dataset.

[1] [http://www.howtogeek.com/250503/how-to-upgrade-to- windows-10...](http://www.howtogeek.com/250503/how-to-upgrade-to- windows-10-enterprise-without-reinstalling-windows/)

[2] [http://www.howtogeek.com/244678/you-dont-need-a-product- key-...](http://www.howtogeek.com/244678/you-dont-need-a-product-key-to- install-and-use-windows-10/)

<comment><USER17> Would you happen to have an up-to-date guide? The one you linked doesn't work in a fresh Win10 Home VM.

<comment><USER16> I don't unfortunately and I haven't got around to trying it yet. If you (or anyone else on HN) finds something that works, could you post the link here?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> Honest question here: Why tech community is so hard with Windows mandatory updates, and kind of flexible with other companies? Maybe its just me, but the ratio of posts and articles blaming Microsoft for this practice seems to be disproportional. I mean, my Mac asked me 875 times about accepting something about iTunes. No matter how many times i click on decline, it keeps appearing there all the time. Same thing with Chrome: It got silently updated (just figured it with last update that brought Material Design to the interface). If avoiding updates to a system is kind of a user right, then it would be fair to have an option to stop updates in cloud based systems as well (IE: My email service).

<comment><USER19> Your Mac updates are indefinitely truly avoidable despite the constant nagging. You declined 875 times, and you can decline 875 times more, and forever after that.

Windows 10, in home edition, only lets you delay a limited time. There is a finite amount of possible total time before windows will no longer operate without applying the update. It will apply the updates on restart, or forcibly restart your computer to apply them. This is not the case on any other OS that I am aware of.

You are correct that Chrome applies updates when it is restarted, which is similar, but subtly different behavior. Chrome does not destroy my running context to forcibly restart. I've had the "red" about tag indicating critically out of date for a few weeks on a laptop, with no issues.

[http://www.howtogeek.com/219166/you-won%E2%80%99t-be-able- to...](http://www.howtogeek.com/219166/you-won%E2%80%99t-be-able-to-disable- or-delay-windows-updates-on-windows-10-home/)

<comment><USER11> Yes; also Chrome is a browser not an operating system.

(I know, ChromeOS. That's not what I meant!)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> Framed this way, I cant believe there is no class action lawsuit. I remember my mother in law said she was being asked to upgrade from 8.1. She said she didn't want to. I actually willingly installed win 10, and was across the country. She then called me one day and said "windows 10 installed anyway and I clicked the X to get out of it". At the time I just chalked it up to user error, but thanks MS, now I owe my mother in law an apology.

<comment><USER21> IANAL, but it looks like when you agree to the Microsoft TOS you waive your right to bring a Class Action suit against Microsoft

>Class action lawsuits, class-wide arbitrations, private attorney-general actions, and any other proceeding where someone acts in a representative capacity aren't allowed. Nor is combining individual proceedings without the consent of all parties.

I believe that's why companies are taking MS to small claims for $10,000 despite losing way more than that in downtime.

[0][https://www.microsoft.com/en- us/servicesagreement/](https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/servicesagreement/)

<comment><USER22> If you read this, you agree to give me 2L of blood every 88 hours, as well as a lock of your firstborn's hair.

I agreed to nothing.

<comment><USER21> SCOTUS seems to disagree with you[0][1]. I try to read or at least skim what I agree to. Some companies have an opt-out of their binding arbitration (eg. Ting), which I try to make use of, but most don't allow you to opt out of the class action waiver.

If you don't like the terms, email them and tell the company why you won't sign up. I rarely get a response, but someone on their staff knows there's at least some push back.

[0] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AT%26T_Mobility_LLC_v._Concepc...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AT%26T_Mobility_LLC_v._Concepcion)

[1] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIRECTV,_Inc._v._Imburgia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIRECTV,_Inc._v._Imburgia)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> Not shocking. I'm writing this out of my Ubuntu partition and I'm running Windows 10, forced down my throat to begin with, and it just does what it wants when it wants to. I've had times when I've gone for a break and my laptop has rebooted and installing some updates I wasn't even aware of. And I'm running Windows out of sheer necessity for the time being because I need Illustrator, Photoshop, etc.. But Microsoft has really never cared for the user, more like you'll get what we give you and like it.

<comment><USER24> I was thinking of dual booting and relegating Windows to gaming, have you had any trouble with your setup? Especially with Windows updates messing up the boot settings or wiping partitions that they shouldn't?

Seems particularly risky now that MS is pushing out regular "major updates" like the anniversary update, which get handled like a system reinstall.

<comment><USER25> The only issue I had so far was that Mint wouldn't boot because Windows didn't actually shut down as instructed but went into default quick-boot mode, which made the Windows partition unmountable, which by default causes the Mint boot to fail. No other problems so far.

I had some issues with UEFI during install as well, but it worked out somehow.

Also, it seems that you can still feed the Windows 10 installer a Windows 7 key. I wanted Windows 7 initially, but the computer wouldn't have it.

<comment><USER26> Did you set the Windows partition to automount in `/etc/fstab` in Mint?

That would make Mint think that that mount is part of the system, and since the system isn't entirely available, the boot cannot proceed.

I suggest you add `nofail` to the mount options, and `nobootwait` on older that Ubuntu-16.04-derived Mint (doesn't run systemd) and `x-systemd.device- timeout=1` on Ubuntu-16.04+-derived Mint (should run systemd)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> The saddest part about it for me is that Windows 10 made some of my friends cynical regarding privacy. If you asked them before they would have at least acknowledged the value of privacy, but now it's just "Why not upgrade to Windows 10? Everything you use is already data-mining you." They see all the bad news about privacy in Windows 10 and I guess that's the only way you can rationalize using it.

<comment><USER28> You make me feel bad about it but I find myself saying this kind of thing now. It didn't start with Windows 10 tbh.

</comment></comment><comment><USER29> After the crap associated with the Anniversary Update, I decided to stop threatening to move to Linux every time Microsoft made a consumer-hostile move and just do it, in order to see how feasible the shift would be. Fedora has been fine so far, sans a few hardware-specific issues I've run into. The laptop is certainly better optimized for Windows, which is not surprising. I'm trying to document all of the problems I've run into along the way and the steps to remedy them, in case they are of value to anyone else. The Arch Linux wiki has been great for this sort of thing, even without using Arch.

<comment><USER30> Congratulations on the switch. Ubuntu might be slightly superior to Fedora (you'll outgrow it eventually), but again, congratulations on finally doing so. If you get a whim to tinker, try a KDE-based distribution; it'll feel the most like windows, just with more options to tweak.

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> I dual boot on my PC, Ubuntu and Windows. I'm writing this from my Arch laptop. I only drop into Windows if I want to play a Windows-only game, but thankfully that's happening less and less. I've stopped buying games for Windows entirely so I won't have this problem in the future.

When I installed Windows10, I did the hour long dance of trying to find all the places where I could turn off tracking, even temporarily. Then I ran this[0] which does a pretty good job in a magic black box kind of way. It's a patch job, I don't recommend using Windows10 as a daily driver or putting too much faith into any gui setting or external patch.

Also updates are important. Software developers know maintaining multiple old versions and backporting fixes is more art than science and even with the best intentions is prone to incompleteness. Update your software. If you find you can't because upstream is consistently invasive/lacking/gross, chose a different project or you know... fork.

[0]: [https://github.com/10se1ucgo/DisableWinTracking](https://github.com/10se1ucgo/DisableWinTracking)

</comment><comment><USER31> Maybe this can be read as a cautionary tale about how easy it is to convince yourself to cut ethical corners when money is involved.

In an honest moment, I suspect that many Microsoft executives would acknowledge that the behavior described here is morally dubious. Yet they've allowed it to happen.

This reminds me that it's a daily challenge to avoid temptation and do the right thing. I hope that at least a few people in Redmond are thinking the same thing.

</comment><comment><USER32> I think that Microsoft could fix this fairly easily: make an easy opt out for Cortana and telemetry, offer more control over security options.

I totally sympathize with Microsoft for wanting everyone to be on Windows 10, with continuous updates (security and otherwise). Better for them and long term probably better for users.

I don't use OS X anymore but when I did, I liked always being at the latest update.

Except for my iPad, I use Ubuntu Linux laptops and like keeping every device up to date.

Pardon a tangent, but: society as a whole really needs a "going to the moon" level global project to harden computing devices. As an end user of technology I am willing to keep my devices up to date and I try to be understanding of Apple, Microsft, and Ubuntu (and other Linud distros).

<comment><USER33> I wouldn't mind paying twice the price of Windows 10 Pro if I could select what I want installed and the OS respected that. No telemetry, no Cortana, no Windows Stores apps if I need to have a MS account. No missclick-based features (you click yes and suddenly your local account is now an online account).

Since I'm stuck with this crap forever (Adobe, Office, games, etc) at least let me pay you not spy on me and install your crapware. And let ME control MY PC.

<comment><USER34> You do know that both Adobe apps and Office apps are natively available for Mac? Games are still a problem though, but you can dual-boot just for games.

<comment><USER33> Personally, I can't stand OSX.

Since running things on Wine or VM end it up being too much of a hassle, Windows is my only option. I did that for a couple of years though.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER35> The saddest part is that no one cares and no one does anything.

No protests, no rotten tomatoes into MS manager faces, no uproars or boycotts, not even pathetic stuff like lawsuits.

At best a few educated people complain on the internet or brag about moving to Linux.

All this does is the evaporative cooling that hardens the cold death grip of a blind company whose moral compass doesn't even point north around the necks of the common folk that notice nothing and wonder why it's getting harder to breath every other year.

And no, i'm not smart enough to come up with a solution either...

</comment><comment><USER36> Microsoft paid $10k [1] to one single count of this deceiving practice and decided to settle not to pursue further.

Me and my young children see Transvaginal Mesh Implants class action lawsuit invitation few times a day for probably a year now on multitude of national TV stations. When will some tech-literate lawyer start gathering evidence to file a class action lawsuit over what MS just did??

[1] [http://www.theverge.com/2016/6/27/12046738/microsoft- pays-10...](http://www.theverge.com/2016/6/27/12046738/microsoft- pays-10k-over-windows-10-auto-update)

<comment><USER37> The EULA you agree to during Windows 10 installation prohibits class action lawsuits, but Windows 7 should be fair game...

<comment><USER38> I support some computers that auto-updated to 10, and everyone with access to them _swears_ they never hit "OK" in the week leading up to that auto-update. Did the EULA just flash up on the screen at 2 AM?

<comment><USER37> I guess it reboots to Windows 10, but keeps the old installation in "C:\Windows.old". If you then do not agree to the EULA in the Windows 10 setup wizard it rolls back to your old Windows installation. Definitely a dark pattern, because most users may feel that going back is not possible.

<comment><USER38> It took me a little while to identify which shared folders were necessary for various programs used by this business. Having figured out how to re-share those folders and confirmed that everything else was still working, however, there wasn't a chance in hell I was going to roll the dice on a "restore" operation. They had work to do that day.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER39> This is the reason why i moved to linux. The path this "new" microsoft have choosen, if they continue to do this, they will certainly lose their market share on PCs in near future and I hope when users will start caring about their rights and privacy, they will move to other OSes.

<comment><USER33> Let's be real, "they" won't. A select few might change to a mac, maybe a chromebook, and that's it.

Developers are a case apart.

<comment><USER40> ChromeOS is just as bad with spying as Windows 10 (or worse considering how much other information Google has to tie to you. Apple is well on their way to making their upcoming OS similar as well. We live in a world now where most people are conditioned NOT to pay for software, and don't mind being "the product" for free services. For those that do mind being data mined there are fewer and fewer options every day.

<comment><USER33> No shit. I was just trying to avoid the year of the linux desktop meme, since I gave up on that already, while also doubting that "they" are going to ditch Windows.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER41> I hate to say it, but a lot of this stuff was advocated by Butler Lampson (one of heroes)[1].

Basically, he advocated for having at least two computers (which could be virtual machines) labeled "red" and "green". The red machine is promiscuous, and accepts inputs from anything; whereas the green machine only accepts inputs from "accountable" sources (n.b. this means it wouldn't accept input from the red machine).

Crucially, he says that the green machine, which might have access to sensitive information such as your financial records, would _"require professional management"_. The user might be able to make course grain adjustments to qualify what it means to be an accountable source, but in this scheme, the system's integrity is only assured by allowing the professional administrator to preempt the user.

I don't like it (Win 8 will probably be the last version I use), but since it's Butler, I have to at least consider that he might be right.

[1] [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJw2SZPjAfA&feature=youtu.be...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJw2SZPjAfA&feature=youtu.be&t=2123)

</comment><comment><USER42> I had to install Windows 8.1 from scratch recently, for the first time in my life I had to review update-per-update what the f%$k did they do, it is depressing that too many updates had something to do with Windows 10 or an increase in telemetry...

      - <USER2>
      - <USER3>
      - <USER4>
      - <USER5>
      - <USER6>
      - <USER7>
      - <USER8>

<comment><USER11> Win7, 8, and 8.1 updates are moving to cumulative patches next month. Assuming you still patch at all, you will be unable to avoid installing the telemetry on older MS operating systems too.

I assume that like Win10, there will be ways to hack around and disable the telemetry there. But you can't avoid installing it in the first place for long.

</comment></comment><comment><USER43> I guess people shouldn't be speaking while debating if <INSERT-CURRENT-YEAR> is the year of the Linux desktop or not. The choices in life are usually (and i emphasize usually) simple, and this case is no exception. You either discard your privacy and maybe your security and go Windows, or you discard your usability (for some) and go Linux. Or go Mac, FreeBSD, hell, even BeOS or Hurd or whatever floats your boat.

But seeing people still bitching about how they can't go over Windows "because I have to play games" well ... it hurts. It really hurts.

We should know better.

<comment><USER13> Gaming is my passion, my hobby, and by far my largest expense save mandatory things such as my mortgage. I don't understand why this means that I cannot say that Windows 10 is upsetting to me unless I give up a huge part of my identity. It is an unfortunate situation from which there is little recourse for people like me.

<comment><USER43> I'm not saying people shouldn't play games, hell, I'm a gamer myself. But we have to compromise in life, and when I fire up my Windows VM, I understand all the implications that come out of it: I might get malware, I might get my personal information sent to various sites, my OS might be upgraded to NewWinOs or downgraded to OldCrappyOs automatically and so on.

And this is freaking unfortunate for everybody involved, except the big companies like Microsoft, Google, FB, Apple, etc.

<comment><USER44> The solution is two separate machines. One Linux machine for all personal computing and dev work, and a Windows machine with Steam on it, and anything else game-related.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER45> I have lost work on Windows 10 because it doesnt seem possible to not have it restart after an update. This behavior being a default from the Windows "Professional Edition" boggles my mind.

<comment><USER46> The automatic update restarts are the worst. Followed guide here and have not come into work with a restarted computer since (used Method 3): [http://www.redmondpie.com/disable-turn-off-automatic- updates...](http://www.redmondpie.com/disable-turn-off-automatic-updates-in- windows-10-heres-how/)

<comment><USER11> Option 1 on that link stops updates from running on their own, but once you update you are forced to reboot. Also I had problems with that solution causing stalling forever on "Installing updates 0%".

Option 2 is for hiding specific updates, like broken drivers. Doesn't really apply.

Option 3 again will stop updates from installing in the first place, but will not stop reboots once they're installed. Windows 10 completely ignores the "No auto-restart with logged on users" policy from that same group.

The only way I have found to stop my computer from rebooting after installing an update is #2 in the link below. This works, 100%.

[https://superuser.com/questions/973009/conclusively-stop- wak...](https://superuser.com/questions/973009/conclusively-stop-wake-timers- from-waking-windows-10-desktop/973029#973029)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER47> _> The Way Forward_

is to ditch Windows. You can't seriously expect MS to respect user choice and privacy.

<comment><USER48> Except my work _relies_ on Autodesk which has Windows and Office as a dependency.

I'm trapped

<comment><USER47> Yeah, in such cases helping Wine supporting them can move things forward.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER49> And to think that before this, people were angry at Microsoft for not providing updates to new versions of Windows free of charge, and free of hastle.

Damned if they do. Damned if they don't.

But now at least, they'll have a much smaller install base for ancient versions of Windows, so my guess is that even with all this bad PR, it's going to pay off.

</comment><comment><USER50> Privacy issues aside, I can't actually trust Windows 10.

It shut down twice on me while I was working (to install a mandatory security patch). This OS treats its users like kids who wouldn't know better.

<comment><USER51> If you're a computer "Enthusiast" most of the time you know what's coming (sites like winbeta and neowin post the news) or you would have known how to set the restart time, accept/reject the action center notifications or gracefully finished work to reboot because rebooting in windows only takes about 5 seconds these days.

</comment></comment><comment><USER52> I recently had to install windows 10 on one of my computers. I remember getting to a menu which asked me if I wanted to install the recommended way vs customizing, selected custom and the number of options that could seriously undermine my privacy were insane, a special ID to help 3rd parties (ms certified partners or something they called it) WHAT THE HELL!!

Microsoft seriously sucks. Yes I know, the options to turn these things off are there, but the fact that 90% of the people who use ms windows are not even aware of these options is insane.

And couple that with the soul sucking updates,Jesus Christ windows 10 is just a big no no.

As for the updates, you should seriously consider disabling the windows update service using the admin privileges. Especially if you are using a rate limited internet connection or hate having to wait 10-15 mins for your computer to shutdown or startup.

</comment><comment><USER53> I have one remaining Windows 7 license that I would like to set up on a new machine. Is there no way to keep it untainted forever by Windows 10?

<comment><USER54> They aren't doing the free upgrade to 10 offer anymore so you're probably fine. I've been running a 7 instance in a VM for a long time and never had a problem with it upgrading to 10.

<comment><USER55> Probably not fine...

Do not assume that the "Free" expiration stops them from loading 10 in all but name & fugly menu on your back-end through 40+ supposed updates & patches. The telemetry is what they are after, the telemetry is what they will go to almost any length to collect and telemetry is all you are good for... at the moment.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER56> Honestly, having two computers has been the only way I can sanely function at work. We have to use Windows for at least one application. My solution has been to setup a second desktop (these are small towers), install Linux on it, and remote into the Windows from the Linux machine. Oddly enough, I can actually play some video games on the Windows machine through that remote session.

We replace computers two to three times per year; I get to pick from generally four-year old computers. I assume that a second computer is not an option for most at work.

</comment><comment><USER57> Because of their (Microsoft's) bullshit with Windows 10 I had to switch my family to Ubuntu and myself to OS X. Bye bye Microsoft, you won't have any more of mine or my family's data...

</comment><comment><USER58> I certainly agree that Microsoft have been very underhanded in some of their approaches.

What really grinds my gears though is the lack of interest people have in maintaining their tools. If your computer is central to running your business you should be informed about upcoming updates as computer downtime is a threat to your business.

</comment><comment><USER59> Just for the record if you disabled the Windows 10 update properly[1] I'm pretty sure it would never bother you and you could never accidentally install it.

I'm not saying I approve of what Microsoft did with the W10 upgrade but if you were technically competent to change a few registry/group policy options it was never a problem for you.

[1] [https://support.microsoft.com/en- us/kb/3080351](https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3080351)

</comment><comment><USER60> Personally I will never by windows anything again. Unix all the way.

</comment><comment><USER61> Does anyone know what MS does with this data? Is it just for ads?

<comment><USER62> It's for quality and personalization, not for ads. This is Terry Myerson's blog explanation of data usage.

[https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2015/09/28/priva...](https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2015/09/28/privacy- and-windows-10/)

<comment><USER11> That assumes you believe Microsoft, that they are not deliberately lying to their customers. Not plausible? Microsoft claimed Skype has end-to-end encryption, too.

[http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/12/newly- published-n...](http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/12/newly-published- nsa-documents-show-agency-could-grab-all-skype-traffic/)

[https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/11/microsoft- nsa-...](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/11/microsoft-nsa- collaboration-user-data)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER63>
      By default, Windows 10 sends an unprecedented amount of
      usage data back to Microsoft... location data, text
      input, voice input, touch input, webpages you visit, and
      telemetry data regarding your general usage of your
      computer, including which programs you run and for how long.

Unprecedented for Microsoft or everyone? This is inline with what Google collects on Android.

      ...the fact remains that many users would much prefer to
      opt out of these features in exchange for maintaining
      their privacy.

Which they can do at any time, the initial setup permits opting out of almost all of this.

      A significant issue is the telemetry data the company
      receives. While Microsoft insists that it aggregates and
      anonymizes this data, it hasn't explained just how it
      does so. Microsoft also won't say how long this data is
      retained, instead providing only general timeframes.

Microsoft has been doing this since Windows XP as do Apple, Google, and Amazon for their respective OSes.

      Microsoft has tried to explain this lack of choice by
      saying that Windows Update won't function properly on
      copies of the operating system with telemetry reporting
      turned to its lowest level.

This is interesting because Windows 10 won't let you disable telemetry data entirely which upsets people. But most people probably want updates and the data necessary to determine which updates you've got installed on your computer are considered telemetry data by Microsoft and that information is essential in order to determine which updates are applicable or available. So does the minimum setting in Windows 10 collect more telemetry data than is necessary for Windows Update to function or not?

      But this is a false choice that is entirely of
      Microsoft's own creation. There's no good reason why the
      types of data Microsoft collects at each telemetry level
      couldn't be adjusted so that even at the lowest level of
      telemetry collection, users could still benefit from
      Windows Update and secure their machines from
      vulnerabilities, without having to send back things like
      app usage data or unique IDs like an IMEI number.

Did Microsoft actually say that the lowest level of telemetry data collection includes that information? That sounds like an assumption.

      And if this wasn't bad enough, Microsoft's questionable
      upgrade tactics of bundling Windows 10 into various
      levels of security updates have also managed to lower
      users' trust in the necessity of security updates. Sadly,
      this has led some people to forego security updates
      entirely, meaning that there are users whose machines are
      at risk of being attacked.

Right or wrong, this is what Apple, Google, and Amazon currently. Sure it's nice to be able to look at each and every update to scrutinize what's going in but very few people do that. If you've every looked at the updates in earlier versions of Windows they're usually just KB numbers that you have to copy/paste into a browser to see what they actually fix.

<comment><USER64> >>> Apple, Google, and Amazon currently

So in your world 2 wrongs make a right... because "everyone else" is doing it is a justification for you?

See I was taught from a young age that just because my friends did something incredibly stupid, illegal, or immoral that dis not give me license to commit the offense.

<comment><USER63> So why aren't we complaining about this industry practice? It's purely focused on MS.

<comment><USER11> Put simply, Apple and Google allow users to opt-out.

You can run Android and not send Google a single byte of information. You can't run google's _apps_ and do that-- gmail, google calendar, the google play store, and so on. But it isn't mandatory. Telemetry is in the apps, not the OS.

Even if I set telemetry to "basic" (the lowest it will go), turn off Cortana, and don't use IE or Edge (or any other MS app), Windows 10 sends telemetry to Microsoft. That's not OK.

<comment><USER51> Even if you opt out, you're still sending telemetry. Unless your telling me your buying a smart phone and never installing an app. It takes telemetry for apple store to check your system and see if your apps need updating. it takes telemetry to check if your icloud is backed up. it takes telemetry to say "it will take you 20 minutes to drive home" notifications that popup..

<comment><USER64> >>Unless your telling me your buying a smart phone and never installing an app.

I have a smartphone that does not send info to google or apple.

Runs Andriod with no google account, no Google Services, and my app store is FDriod not the play store.

You assumption that everyone that owns a smart phone is a icloud user or uses the apple store is ridiculous

<comment><USER63> I wouldn't say it's ridiculous. The number of people who do what you do is minuscule. The people with the technical ability and knowledge to do that is also a very small subset of the population.

You can stand on your high horse and tell everyone they have a choice and to not stand for such things but it's disingenuous at best. There are people out there without the technical expertise or fundamental ability to obtain such knowledge. There are people who are financially incapable of doing it as well. You can spout off about how affordable it is but your phone probably cost them a month's salary.

<comment><USER11> My statement was that the telemetry wasn't baked into the OS itself-- and it isn't. It's in the programs you _run_ on the OS, so the user has agency. How many users opt for the extreme inconvenience of turning off Google Play Services and all the Google apps isn't really the point-- they _could_.

Windows telemetry is baked in the OS. I believe that is a fundamental difference.

Also, I don't think it's disingenuous to say that users have different expectations of mobile and desktop operating systems. Apple's iOS has always sent basic telemetry; until recently Windows didn't.

Apple doesn't have a history of compromising users' privacy then lying about it, unlike Microsoft with Skype.

And finally, while Apple is sending some telemetry, they are actually serious about their users' privacy and are collecting data with a technical solution that truly does guarantee anonymity.

[https://www.wired.com/2016/06/apples-differential-privacy- co...](https://www.wired.com/2016/06/apples-differential-privacy-collecting- data/)

<comment><USER63> What constitutes being baked in? Various components of Windows gather telemetry data, the basic stuff is pulled by the Diagnostics Tracking Service which can simple be disabled. Other things such as Office and Contana gather in their own ways. That's no more baked in than Google Play Services is baked into Android. The fundamental difference is that Windows isn't Open Source so you can't go to a repo and pull down a clean version of it.

Windows has been sending telemetry data since XP.

Until recently Apple hasn't had much market share or scrutiny. We're starting to see that change happening with new malware targeting MacOS showing up and plenty of buggy software.

<comment><USER11> You can simply uninstall Google Play Services.

You can't uninstall the telemetry and tracking stuff. You need to disable services, make changes to the registry, remove task scheduler entries, and block access in your firewall to truly secure Win10.

Telemetry, previously called "Windows Customer Experience" or something similar, in versions of windows earlier than 10 could easily be turned off. Recently MS added the full-on Win10 style telemetry to Win7 and 8 too, but that is a very recent development.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER65> I wonder if these moves will push more and more users to go down the pirating path of the Enterprise edition.

</comment><comment><USER66> They are trying to fix their fragmented OS version pie chart problem like it was a fragged up Win 95 hard drive. Feels about as fun, too.

</comment><comment><USER67> Microsoft let us turn off all the telemetry, Cortina, etc. Please. I don't want to hate you.

</comment><comment><USER68> I clicked for a deep dive. Not what I expected.

</comment><comment><USER69> Folks, Microsoft blatantly disregarding user choice and privacy is not news. What else do you expect from a company that ships at least one backdoor in every software they've ever made?

If you understand the true nature of Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer, this should never come as a surprise. It's going to take several generations for the culture to change, that is, if ever...

</comment><comment><USER70> "But it's a shame that Microsoft made users choose between having privacy and security."

Great article, but this part is simply wrong. Microsoft chose to remove _both_. You now have an operating system without security that is known to steal data and install things on its own (malware). How can EFF say this OS is more secure when Microsoft can and does access any data on the system at any time without asking for permissions? When even the permissions dialogs are fake? To classify this as anything but malware would be willful stupidity at this point.

It's not that the OS has _less_ security, now it has _none_. In fact, users running Windows 10 might want to question whether they even own their machines anymore. Physical possession aside, when one no longer controls the software or data on a machine can one be said to own said machine? Can one be held responsible for what it does? What if Microsoft decides to download child porn on everyone's machine? Considering what they've done in the last year, I wouldn't put it past them.

</comment><comment><USER71> Somewhat related - How to turn off Cortana

[http://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-10-tip-turn-off- cortana...](http://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-10-tip-turn-off-cortana- completely/)

</comment><comment><USER72> The reality is that no one is going to adbandon Windows, no matter what Microsoft do. Windows 8 is proof of that.

</comment><comment><USER73> Gb abbreviates gigabit or gigabyte? What does GB abbreviate?

</comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment>===

In update:

PLEASE stop down voting me for my simple, nice, courteous reminder to the person who wrote the post I replied to.

I was NOT, NOT, NOT, NOT ignorant of the meanings of Gb versus GB and was NOT, NOT, NOT, NOT asking for a tutorial on the difference. I am not an ignorant newby on HN knowing too little to be posting here. Just what I did wrong is beyond all obvious criteria.

These attacks are personal, based on my user name and some earlier posts of mine?

I did NOTHING, NOTHING, NOTHING wrong.

Instead, I was suggesting that maybe the post I responded to was not using Gb versus GB correctly -- MAYBE. I was trying to be subtle and suggesting that the person just review the meanings of Gb versus GB. I DO know very, very well the correct, accepted meanings the two abbreviations.

So, for trying to be nice, I get attacked? What kind of hostility is that?

MOD, please get involved and correct this.

Right, I'm a newby? I've published several peer-revewed papers of original research in computer science and artificial intelligence and taught computer science in graduate school at Ohio State University. I DO know quite a lot of computing. Early in my career I designed and wrote the software that scheduled the fleet at FedEx and literally saved the company -- pleased the BoD and enabled crucial financing. My Ph.D. dissertation in engineering was in software.

For one of my contributions in artificial intelligence at the IBM Watson lab, I received an award from IBM. For some other research I did at IBM, I reinvented k-D trees -- a few years earlier, and k-D trees would have been mine.

MOD: I've done NOTHING, NOTHING, NOTHING wrong, but I've been severely attacked. The attacks look personal, by paid propagandists attacking me for some old post on some topic the propagandists are paid to fight about.

MOD: Please straighten out these attacks.

<comment><USER74> A downvote or even a hundred downvotes on HN is hardly worth getting upset over. Remember how there's this whole world out there with women in it and sunsets and grass and beer and stuff?

<comment><USER75> Mmmm, beer.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER76> Long since stopped using Windows...

[http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/29/295931841857280419b1d9f99759e...](http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/29/295931841857280419b1d9f99759e4731d0e1f4d16426d9a5d97c7b0713a111e.jpg)

</comment><comment><USER77> Should have just branded it Windows 7 SP2. But I guess everyone expects MS to support multiple branches of code forever.

These discussions always avoid talking about the merits of data-driven design and always assume malicious intent.

<comment> sjm-lbm If I buy a computer and/or pay Microsoft money, I think it's reasonable for me to expect my computer to do what I'd like it to do (and only what I'd like it to do). The problem isn't data-driven design, it's how the data is being collected.

I'd be annoyed if my home builder occasionally came through my house while I was gone in an attempt to analyze how I was arranging furniture and using my space. They could, undoubtedly, use that data to better their future work - but I'd still feel violated.

<comment><USER14> I don't understand why you think you're entitled to that expectation. If you don't like what Windows does, buy an OS from someone else.

<comment> sjm-lbm I'm not saying that I'm entitled to an exception (and do use desktop Linux and macOS in any situation that allows me such a choice, gaming and Office usage being my primary barriers - and I'll leave aside whatever Apple may be doing with my usage statistics there, which probabally isn't great).

Rather, the comment that I'm replying to infers that there is nothing wrong with what Microsoft is doing because they are using all of this data for some sort of Good Reason, and I personally think that their methods of data collection are shady enough to make whatever good they may be doing with that data irrelevant.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


iFrames, React and postMessage. You'll never believe what happens next - <AUTHOR> https://jfoucher.com/2017/08/interframe-communication-with-postmessage.html <comment><AUTHOR> Sorry for the click-baity title, I just did it as joke, and because my original title was too long for HN. Let me know if it's a problem and I'll change it.

The post is about iFrame communication with window.postMessage and React. Original title is : "Communication between iframes with React and postMessage for an html template editor"</comment>


83-Year Old Suing Apple Over Glass Doors at Retail Stores - <AUTHOR> http://www.macrumors.com/2012/03/25/83-year-old-suing-apple-over-glass-doors-at-retail-stores/ <comment><USER2> moral of the story: Don't forget accessibility when designing great interfaces.</comment>


List of mathematics-related blogs by academics - <AUTHOR> http://wiki.henryfarrell.net/wiki/index.php/Mathematics/Statistics#K-Theory_and_Homology_.28math.KT.29

<comment><USER2> See also: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=872254>

</comment><comment><USER3> Note also just how many refer to Terence Tao's web pages... there is excellent stuff there.

<comment><USER4> Yes, he seems very prolific. He has these 3 pages listed:

Mathematics in Australia - Phil Broadbridge, Peter Hall, Birgit Loch, Terence Tao <http://austmaths.wordpress.com/>

What's New - Terence Tao (UCLA) <http://terrytao.wordpress.com/category/mathematics/mathit/>

The polymath blog - Tim Gowers, Gil Kalai, Michael Nielsen, Terence Tao <http://polymathprojects.org/>

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> I'm sorry, I don't even know what half of those subjects even involve. Perhaps a better list would be of links to /learn/ at least introductions to those different subjects. And Wikipedia doesn't count.

<comment><USER6> Your ignorance is not the poster's problem. I have a very general idea of what most of them are about. If you want to learn a bit ABOUT math it really isn't that hard, there are lots of good books, I suggest Davis and Hersh's "The Mathematical Experience" and Eric T Bell's "Mathematics: Queen and Servant of Science" to start. The problem with the Web is that most pieces are too short (for good reason, given the constraints) or too technical for basic learning.</comment></comment>


Show HN: Google Images Restored - <AUTHOR> https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/google-images-restored/ncndcebmkibkhopclfdjfacgfholcghi <comment><USER2> I am interested but not convinced (I rarely use Google these days). Could you on the Chrome store:

1) Show a comparison between old and new image search results?

2) Explain why the old style is better?

optional: 3) In broad strokes, how you achieve this? Permissions required?</comment>


Windows is 'collapsing,' Gartner warns - <AUTHOR> http://www.macworld.co.uk/business/news/index.cfm?RSS&NewsID=20965 <comment><USER2> This article is pure FUD. Sure adoption of Vista is slow, but so many mission- critical applications are built for the Windows platform that businesses won't be moving away from it any time soon. Not until there is a sane upgrade path or they are finally forced to invest in something new (be it a rewrite, etc.), which realistically could be decades for some.

The majority of home users still run some flavour of Windows, and likely don't have a reason to upgrade and won't until there is a compelling reason to do so. Processor speeds and RAM sizes are "good enough" for most users now, and have been for the past couple of years.

Windows as a fashion is definitely passé, but it won't get thrown out like your old Vaurnet T-Shirts and Bugle Boy jeans...

<comment><USER3> Which is why they advocate a backward compatible virtualization module for win32 compatibility. Either way, Microsoft has to take a more modular approach if they're going to sustain backwards compatibility and continue innovating in future OSs. The effort to remain backwards compatible has outstripped the effort to innovate. Vista is the proof.</comment></comment>


Modern Brands Going Back to Their Vintage Logos - <AUTHOR> https://opmaak.co/blog/brands-going-back-to-vintage-logos <comment><USER2> Seems kind of negligent not to mention Saul Bass' WB worms logo (the one that looks like \\\') used for a decade by Warner Bros and still trotted out for movies set in the '70s & '80s like Joker.

</comment><comment><USER3> n=2, but still cool examples

</comment><comment><USER4> [http://annyas.com/screenshots/warner-bros- logo/](http://annyas.com/screenshots/warner-bros-logo/)

</comment><comment><USER5> Two examples? I can't see this in action anywhere for VW. All of their branding still uses their chrome 3D logo.

</comment><comment><USER6> If only Alfa Romeo did the same...</comment>


Introduction to Logic in Computing Science [pdf] - <AUTHOR> http://webdocs.cs.ualberta.ca/~hoover/cmput660/readings/cmput172.pdf

<comment><USER2> The text uses Mizar, a formal language based on Tarsky-Grothendiek set theory for expressing and checking its proofs: <http://mizar.org/system/>

</comment><comment><USER3> Logic is an understated and often overlooked area of Computer Science. I think notes like these are fantastic and it's great for all future programmers to learn something about logic itself. There is however a problem with students not having the foresight to see how it is applicable to their future career paths and being a CS student myself I can sympathise with this view. While puzzles and academic problems provide some good material to help explain logic, they do not provide much motivation to your average pragmatic young individual that wants to write software. We need more support for logic programming, and better integration with other software development platforms (one of the things I am working on). Logic programming is actually very applicable to many business problems and these in my view are the missing link in teaching of logic generally.

</comment><comment><USER4> Oh interesting! I attended that University (somewhat briefly, as my lack of funds did not allow me to really finish my degree).

CMPUT172 must have been discontinued shortly after these notes as from 2003 onwards they only offer CMPUT272 - Formal Systems in Logic in Computing Science now.

Certainly a good course, it really provides some great insight about how computers understand and process logical problems. I still have the text and have used it from time to time to show and discuss with others interesting logic problems. The only thing that the course missed was applying the knowledge in a programming environment.

</comment><comment><USER5> Look at the notes similar to the one linked at the end of this website. <http://web.cs.wpi.edu/~guttman/cs521_website/index.html>

I think this is a very helpful page.

<comment><USER5> to be precise - [http://web.cs.wpi.edu/~guttman/cs521_website/Dougherty_lectu...](http://web.cs.wpi.edu/~guttman/cs521_website/Dougherty_lecture_notes.pdf)</comment></comment>


A black hole in a low mass X-ray binary star - <AUTHOR> https://phys.org/news/2017-04-black-hole-mass-x-ray-binary.html <comment><USER2> To provide a little bit of context, it is known that globular clusters should produce a lot of black holes, but it has long been believed that they should retain very few, if any of these black holes. One reason for this is that black holes should receive a kick upon their formation. The gravitational potential of a globular cluster is weak enough that this would generally be enough to kick the black hole out of the cluster.

For those that remain in the cluster, the black holes would be much more massive than the rest of the stars in the cluster. Globular clusters undergo a phenomenon called mass segregation, where the most massive stars settle to the center of the cluster and lighter stars occupy the outer regions. So over time the black holes would sink to the center of the cluster where they would interact and form binaries with each other. These binary-binary interactions would, over time, kick single black holes out of the cluster. Since these interactions happen on timescales that are much shorter than the lifetime of the cluster, the received wisdom about twenty years ago was that globular clusters should have only a couple of black holes left, if any at all.

In 2007, Thomas Maccarone (who is an author on this paper) discovered a black hole in a globular cluster in another galaxy. It wasn't until 2012 that any were discovered in a globular cluster around the Milky Way. Now that computers have gotten fast enough that it has started to become possible to simulate the dynamics of globular clusters, theorists have found that globular clusters retain a much higher fraction of black holes than they originally thought. The reason for this seems to be that the distribution in black hole masses leads the black hole population to remain better mixed with ordinary stars than was originally thought.

<comment><USER3> > _Globular clusters undergo a phenomenon called mass segregation, where the > most massive stars settle to the center of the cluster and lighter stars > occupy the outer regions._

Intuitively, this seems simple, since "heavier objects" should sink further down, no?

But thinking about this for a while, it doesn't seem so simple anymore. No matter what's the mass of the star, if it's already on a given orbit around the cluster, it will tend to stay on that orbit, unless there are close interactions with other stars of comparable mass.

So what would be an intuitive explanation for this phenomenon?

<comment><USER2> This is one of those rare cases where one's immediate intuition isn't so far off. Globular clusters are very dense stellar environments. For context, the radius of a globular cluster is roughly the distance to the nearest star to our Sun (a few light-years). In this space there are packed roughly a million stars. So dynamical interactions are frequent.

A consequence of this is that stars exchange energy with each other frequently, and when you have frequent energy exchanges, you end up with a system that is in energy equipartition --- i.e., every star has about the same amount of energy as every other. Since more massive stars have the same energy as lighter stars, they must move slower, and consequently sink to the center of the cluster. Ultimately energy equipartition is the same reason that there is gravitational settling in a gas or a liquid on Earth.

<comment><USER4> > _when you have frequent energy exchanges, you end up with a system that is > in energy equipartition_

Could you support this claim with some explanation? This can be proven for the Maxwell-Boltzmann distribution of velocities, which is valid for gas in thermodynamic equilibrium, but probably not so valid for stars as these interact via long range forces, not through collisions like molecules do.

EDIT Also, the stars that move too fast will escape the system so the equipartition cannot be sustained for stars whose mass is lower than some value corresponding to average quadratic speed being equal to escape speed.

<comment><USER2> I'm not sure if it has been proven mathematically. The statement that the long-term evolution of the system will tend towards equipartition is equivalent to the system being ergodic. Ergodicity means that statistically any particular state is as likely as any other. These systems are observed (both in reality and in simulation) to be consistent with being ergodic. But I'm not sure it's been proven. I'm also not sure that it has been proven that gasses are ergodic either, even though experiments are consistent with them being ergodic.

<comment><USER4> > _These systems are observed (both in reality and in simulation) to be > consistent with being ergodic._

How could one possibly conclude that system is ergodic from observation? I thought ergodicity is a property of infinite time averages. Globular clusters do not exist indefinitely in the same macrostate, they lose stars as they evolve.

<comment><USER2> This is not my specialty so I may be getting some details wrong here. I don't mean so much that globular clusters are ergodic as few-body interactions are ergodic. It has at least been proven that three-body interactions are chaotic, which implies that all microstates are accessible to the system. This is a necessary requirement for ergodicity, but I don't believe that it implies that the interactions are necessarily ergodic. All I really know is that in practice globular clusters are observed to obey equipartition of energy, as are the average outcomes of large numbers of few-body interactions.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Look! The actual scientific data and analysis!

[https://academic.oup.com/mnras/article/3052451/The](https://academic.oup.com/mnras/article/3052451/The)

</comment><comment><USER6> Yes, it's unlikely and pretty tin-foil-hat, but wouldn't it be nuts if it turned out to be a manufactured black hole? [http://accelerating.org/articles/transcensionhypothesis.html](http://accelerating.org/articles/transcensionhypothesis.html)

 _Intelligences could be expected to slowly accrete the mass of their parent star, rather than lifting or collapsing that mass and then inefficiently recreating fusion within the black hole (if the laws of physics even allow the latter, which they may not). In other words, you might absorb your star in a passive and gravitationally-driven process that would look a lot like a low mass X-ray binary (LMXRB) system to external observers, but in which the black hole companion begins as a planet mass black hole on the order of 1000 times less massive than the star companion, which should be a main-sequence star, likely with a spectral class G, like our Sun._

 _Approximately 100 LMXRBs have been discovered in our galaxy to date, and about 13 of these have been found in the globular clusters, areas at the rim of our galaxy that may not harbor intelligence. They have also been found in many distant galaxies, again often in globular clusters. Few have involved G class stars, and none have yet been discovered with the very high, 1,000:1 mass ratio the hypothesis appears to predict. This may simply be a problem of detection. XRBs emit X-rays only when they are "eating" their companion sun, a transient phenomenon. Chandra, our best X-ray observatory, may also not have the sensitivity or persistence needed to detect very high mass ratio LMXRBs, or those that absorb their star's matter very infrequently or in very small doses. More research and theory is needed in this area._

<comment><USER3> Macroscopic black holes seem like a good source of energy mid-term. But if you consider the very long term (tens of billions of years and beyond), this seems like a waste of matter. You're sending lots of precious baryonic stuff literally down the cosmic drain.

Microscopic black holes seem more efficient. They are one of the very few ways to achieve total mass conversion (complete conversion of mass into energy).

<comment><USER7> This was, iirc, the energy source used in Arthur C. Clarke's Earthlight et al.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> > There are many neutron stars in clusters, but black holes that form in these > dense stellar environments are expected either to sink down to the center of > the cluster or else to be gravitationally ejected from the cluster after > they are formed.

Why would this be the case? Unless you're extremely close to it, a black hole is just a mass, like any other stellar object.

</comment><comment><USER9> These globular clusters have always seemed peculiar to me. One would surmise that such a structure would result in a massive black hole without the rotational effects of say a galaxy.

<comment><USER10> Spiral galaxies tend to have regular rotation, but elliptical galaxies are much more like a globular cluster, although globular clusters aren't thought to contain dark matter. It's just a lot of stars going round in random orbits. They would have to lose angular momentum in order to collapse into the centre. They can get stripped, however, by tidal gravitational effects.

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> > such as would be produced by a black hole of about one solar mass

How do such low mass black holes form?

</comment><comment><USER12> The title would be so much clearer with the addition of one more word: "star".

On the other hand, it did make me click to find out what "binary" was about...

<comment><USER13> At least the star offers binaries. I hate it when I get to a system and I have to compile everything myself.

<comment><USER14> Programmer dad?</comment></comment></comment>


Wouldn't you like to know what's going on in my mind? (2015) - got-any-grapes https://quantumfrontiers.com/2015/11/06/wouldnt-you-like-to-know-whats-going-on-in-my-mind/ <comment><AUTHOR> I don't know if quantum effects are an "important part of brain function".

But it's plausible there could be interference or stimulation of the function of the brain.

Strong magnetic fields can already affect the brain.

And in space, astronauts have been able to "see" cosmic rays, which are direct stimulation of neurons, that happen to be associated with vision:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_ray_visual_phenomena](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_ray_visual_phenomena)

(on the other hand, guess what part of me is actually thinking up this comment)

</comment><comment><USER2> See Holonomic brain theory (the brain as an antenna)

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holonomic_brain_theory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holonomic_brain_theory)

<comment><USER3> >The entire field of quantum consciousness is often criticized as pseudoscience, as detailed on the main article thereof</comment></comment>


Hear the sound of the Magnetic field around Comet 67P - <AUTHOR> http://blogs.esa.int/rosetta/2014/11/11/the-singing-comet/ <comment><USER2> Reminder: Plasma is the fourth state of matter, an electrically conductive gas that can carry magnetic fields and electrical currents.</comment>


Ask HN: Critique my idea for the future of music - <AUTHOR>

This idea has a long history with me, and has been one of those ideas that will not go away, but has not been done (at least that I've seen) since I started mulling this four years ago.
The overall idea is on par with a paradigm shift, in my opinion, but I'll try and succinctly summarize it in this space.
My theory is that music is inherently, in the beginning, local in nature. No band makes it national or international without first cutting their chops at the local bar and moving up to recognition at a state or regional level. My theory is also that many bands are happy to continue performing at local and regional levels, for personal, family or other reasons.
So the concept is a Network (for lack of a better term) that reinforces this natural, expanding sphere of influence. A site where local musicians are able to upload and sell their music and merchandise, promote concerts, and communicate with fans, etc.
Yea, I know MySpace. But, do you search for, listen to or download music from MySpace? Unless a band tells me to visit their MySpace page, I never bother to look at the site. In general, I try to avoid the site. It suffers from (among other things) the same issues that cripple sites that allow unmoderated commenting. You end up with lots of garbage and no way to locate quality material.
To avoid this, the Network would implement a rating system to sort the good from the bad. For simplicity's sake, we'll say it's based on fan votes and number of songs downloaded. But, instead of applying these ratings at a worldwide level, forcing the local garage band to compete with T-Pain, scale it down so that the best (or, more accurately, most popular) bands for a certain geographic area rise to the top of a local site.
Once the network gains traction in multiple areas, you can compare the top bands of each local site and create state, regional and national rankings as well. This creates tiers of musical groups. Once a band is popular enough to make it into a state or regional ranking, they may not appear on the local chart, allowing new acts to rise to the top of the local rankings.
This would occur as the band works to increase its fan-base by playing in a larger area. For instance, a band that plays Grand Rapids regularly may decide they're serious, so they kick off a regional tour and play multiple shows in Chicago, Detroit, and multiple smaller towns along the way, hopefully picking up more fans and selling more songs.
There's much, much more to this idea, including monetization ideas, but I'll stop here. I'm sure there are massive holes, but I hope I've managed to paint a broad, general picture of the conept.
I posted this here today because I don't know what else to do with it. The original concept came to me in 2005. In 2006, on a whim, I submitted it to the company I work for as part of a new company 'innovation' innitiative. It was selected for further development, I was flown to HQ, got to meet the execs, shake hands, take photos, sit in a windowless conference room for three days of 'blue-sky' conceptualizing, then was flown home. And for all intents and purposes, it disappeared into the ether of empty corporate hype.
It was a very disappointing experience and I've tried to just block it out of my head, but it's an idea I'm very fond of, but know that I don't have the skills or contacts to execute. However, it is a project I would very much like to be involved in.
Ok, so unleash the dogs and tear it apart. Tell me that it's been tried and failed, it can't be done, it's a fatally flawed concept, or it needs to be done (and where to start).
Thanks. <comment><USER2> First off, you shouldn't be discouraged just because the large company you work for didn't move forward with your idea. Just because they haven't done it yet, maybe they need a reminder, or maybe there is a reason it didn't go further.

Often a big company needs a stake holder and champion. Maybe they were expecting you to grab the ball and run with it after the meetings you had. This speaks directly to the 1% inspiration, 99% perspiration. Big companies often don't follow through, just like start-ups.

I assume the company you work for is already in this space, and has the power to get something like this done. If so, you may be in a great position to get this accomplished.

As with any business, you will run into challenges.

The big challenges I see are 1) artists want to be discovered, and MySpace is the defacto location for that. Then their is iLike, last.fm, etc. etc. etc. Reinventing the wheel just because of the 'local' components might be a serious challenge, as artists want to go and global quickly. 2) look at sites like Amie Street for an example of what is happening in the Indie space. They are really creative and doing some great stuff. More recently they've been working with the big labels because (in all honesty, I believe) it is difficult to build a music community only on the indie community. Even people who say they support indie often like the major artist stuff too.

If you've got the chops or contacts to get it built, give it a go and see what you can do in your local scene. You'll learn a ton just from the experience.

There is no guarantee of a success or failure, and I don't see any truly significant flaws.

<comment><USER3> > _This speaks directly to the 1% inspiration, 99% perspiration. Big companies > often don't follow through_

I find with large companies it is 1% inspiration and 99% respiration (aka meetings).

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> I wish you luck in implementing it.</comment>


Google, Bing, and SERP Copying: Additional Evidence? - <AUTHOR> http://www.hung-truong.com/blog/2011/04/06/google-bing-and-serp-copying-additional-evidence/

<comment><USER2> "Otherwise they have a very similar method of cloaking detection, a similar policy for punishment, and a similar timeline for reducing the punishment for cloaking… At this point I feel that there are too many coincidences for this to be mere chance."

I disagree. The realities of having to work in the real world will tend to push Google and Bing in the same directions, even if their development is fully independent. The possibility of independent implementations of similar policies is _not_ so unlikely that it justifies accusations of copying. I think you need more evidence.

Besides, it can't flow along the pathways that were previously established to my satisfaction (YMMV). If I understand it correctly, the Bing toolbar analyzes click patterns to see how pages connect together on the web, Google used the Bing toolbar while making their spiked searches, and found that small amounts of that signal made it into Bing, which was exposed when they created searches by design that had no other signal. I'd lay money the Bing toolbar now has an exclusion for Google (and probably other search sites), if only because Google demonstrated it opens an attack vector from the competition. And I do not think the Bing toolbar could pick up on cloaking like this, because that would rest solely on Google's internal servers. I'm not even sure by what mechanism Bing _could_ be copying this signal from Google.

<comment><USER3> Agree with jerf. And furthermore, looking at the chart provided its not clear to me that one is trailing the other. For example, Bing has a big dip on March 14th, which is prior to the date that Google does. And even before the March 15th date your incoming data isn't very flat. And during the March 7th week Bing seems to again lead Google on a downward trend.

I don't think you can assume anything from this data at all.

What would be far more useful, to prove this hypothesis, is request to Google to not show the site for a week and see if Bing's results fall off a cliff. I suspect they won't, but give it a shot.

<comment><USER3> And one more thing... Google seemed to suggest that the data took months to go from Bing toolbar to search results. You seem to suggest it takes one day! That's a pretty big difference in the efficiency of mining their clickstream data.

<comment><AUTHOR> This is a good point. I am not sure how long it takes for change to propagate, but you are right; one day seems pretty fast.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Redirecting on user agent to a mobile site is kinda annoying, but not against Google TOS. Only if you show Googlebot different content than you would show other user agents (single out Googlebot), is it considered cloaking.

You talk of a penalty, where a search engine accessibility issue seems a lot more likely. SE accessibility issues usually translate to all search engines.

Besides that there are a few other possibilities that follow Occam's razor and don't promote the Bing-steals idea. The biggest of these would be trends or market changes. If all around the board you get less people searching for your product (for whatever reason), this should reflect in all search engines' stats.

It's also perfectly possible that an older niche player cleaned up his/her game, or a new competitor hit the scene. Both could eat up your traffic.

Or a webmaster that had many sites linking to you forgot to renew his/her domains.

I don't fault the OP for jumping to conclusions (well, maybe a little bit more care would be appreciated); search engines are a black box, and it is all too easy to connect changes you made on the site, to changes in stats. Even when they are not correlated.

Next time when you encounter a bump and ask yourself: Did I get a penalty? Really try to pinpoint the problem: Which parts of the site took a drop? Does that site still link to me? Is is a trend, and do last year's stats show the same decline? etc. etc.

[http://www.seomoz.org/blog/whiteboard-friday-oh-i-got-a- pena...](http://www.seomoz.org/blog/whiteboard-friday-oh-i-got-a-penalty) can help you with this. Also read up on how to submit a mobile sitemap and have these sites running next to each other without any (perceived) problems: [http://www.google.com/support/webmasters/bin/answer.py?answe...](http://www.google.com/support/webmasters/bin/answer.py?answer=34648&hl=en)

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for your comment! I actually forgot to show the same mobile content to Googlebot-mobile, so I think that's why they assumed it was cloaking.

My site gets pretty consistent traffic. It goes up and down depending on the day of the week and the season but otherwise it's very normal. I am fairly certain that the drop (and now the recovery) has to do with the mobile user agent change I made. The results are now recovering to pre-dip levels, so I don't think it could be something else.

The comments on this post are really illuminating. Thanks for sharing. This is why I really love HN.</comment></comment>


Plumbum: A lazy, constant-memory streaming data Rust library - <AUTHOR> https://srijs.github.io/rust-plumbum/plumbum/ <comment><USER2> I see that a Kleisli arrow is involved somehow. I have no idea what a Kleisli arrow is. Would i have to learn in order to use this library?

Is the involvement of a Kleisli arrow strictly necessary?

<comment><USER3> Author here. Slightly simplifying, a Kleisli arrow is just a function from `A` to `M<B>`, and which is composable, similar to function composition:

        Kleisli<M, A, B> + Kleisli<M, B, C> = Kleisli<M, A, C>

Although it is an important part of how the conduits work, it is not strictly necessary for using the library.

Would it help if I clarified that somewhere, or would you rather not read "Kleisli" anywhere in the docs?

<comment><USER4> i think the word has its place in the doc, but with the kind of explanation you've just put :)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Another "taken" library name: [https://plumbum.readthedocs.org/en/latest/](https://plumbum.readthedocs.org/en/latest/) (I used it a bit and contributed a small usability patch a couple of years ago.)

<comment><USER6> Are duplicate library names a problem? It should be clear from context (Python vs Rust) which one people mean, and it seems unreasonable to expect people to continue creating unique names indefinitely.

<comment><USER7> We have one namespace in the Rust community to adhere to, and that's the crates.io namespace, where packages have to have unique names. I think that's all you need to watch out for realistically.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Can we please have plumbum-contrib named plumbus instead?

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMJk4y9NGvE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMJk4y9NGvE)

<comment><USER9> Ah, I was hoping for a Rick and Morty comment. Such a great show

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> Orange is an unfortunate color for links, since many people are probably used to it signifying "this link is invalid" from wikipedia.

<comment><USER11> Yeah, it wasn't until I read your comment that I realized that 'Kleisli' was documented. I suspect I've been making a similar mistake any time I peruse Rust documentation. (I don't write any Rust myself, or I assume I'd have figured it out by now.)

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> This is somewhat similar to the streaming producer/consumer from another rust crate: [https://github.com/Geal/nom](https://github.com/Geal/nom) perhaps they could be interoperable.</comment>


Microsoft claims Edge is the most power efficient browser - <AUTHOR> https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2016/06/20/more-battery-with-edge/ <comment><USER2> I hope this kicks google into improving the battery and other resource consumption in chrome. I feel most of the chrome developers probably use top of the line computers with 32gb ram etc so don't get how bloated chrome is getting.

</comment><comment><USER3> And they fail to add the glaring fact it only runs on windows 10. Talk about a skewed perspective. Even if I could run it in 7 I wouldn't.

</comment><comment><USER4> Interesting, I wouldn't think the browser itself contains much of the video processing/decoding code.</comment>


Ask HN: Disrupting elance? - <AUTHOR>

I have an idea for a freelancing site, but I don't want to repeat what's been tried. Eg. I noticed there was a YC company jobpic.com that's no longer around, what happened to it? What else has been tried? <comment><USER2> There is no good freelancing site that caters to bigger companies for i.e. embedded development that requires (part-time) on-site work. The companies have a hard time finding good consultants, and vice versa. Many locally acting middle men make a lot of money from this possibly easy-to-solve communication problem.</comment>


Ask HN: How to re-enter the job market after years of unemployment? - <AUTHOR> I'm in my thirties, living off social security, and struggling with depression due to my financial situation.
Finding a (non-boring) job would likely have a positive effect on my depression. Unfortunately, that's easier said than done. And I am unsure how to approach the search for three reasons:
1) my resume is a mess: a CS bachelor, two short programming jobs from which I got fired, and in-between long times of unemployment, 2) my soft skills are lacking as I have been a loner my entire life, and 3) I don't enjoy coding, for me it's a necessary evil (during my studies I enjoyed working at the "UML level" much more)
Any thoughts? Ideas? Thanks. <comment><USER2> > during my studies I enjoyed working at the "UML level" much more

There are still jobs like that in the non-Agile world of business application, mainly in government I think (at least here in Europe). The position is called "system analyst" (sometimes also "business analyst", but that is likely to include more fluff). It involves writing down system specification, which includes detailed requirements, user's interactions with the system (use cases), the data model etc. The other part of the job is talking to developers while they're developing the system and testing their work(making sure there are no bugs and they they understood the specs correctly) after they're done.

It's not a bad job, definitely less headaches than coding IMO. The downside is that you need to deal with business people more (can be an plus for some people), and mainly that it's just not that common any more in the post-agile world. Also usually pays less than development.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks, that sounds interesting.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> Get any job, including boring jobs. Good luck!

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks. I don't think getting a boring job would be helpful, because in both dismissals "being bored" was a factor. I'm a bookworm and need intellectual stimulation.

<comment><USER4> Have a look at getting a job in an optical laboratory.

Lots of different things to do, lots of problems that need solving. Lots of optical labs take people on with no previous experience. But it's not a particularly easy job and the pay isn't great.</comment></comment></comment>


Show HN: The Cyber"- a curated multireddit for busy folks (sort by "top") - <AUTHOR> https://www.reddit.com/user/dontbenebby/m/the_cyber/ <comment><AUTHOR> Looks like Reddit also allows you to view via RSS:

[https://www.reddit.com/user/dontbenebby/m/the_cyber.rss](https://www.reddit.com/user/dontbenebby/m/the_cyber.rss)</comment>


Migrating Passenger from C++ to Go? - <AUTHOR> https://blog.phusion.nl/2018/09/18/migrating-passenger-from-cxx-to-go/ <comment><USER2> Another alternative is to migrate to Modern C++. I just did a quick look through the code base.

[https://github.com/phusion/passenger/blob/stable-5.3/src/cxx...](https://github.com/phusion/passenger/blob/stable-5.3/src/cxx_supportlib/Crypto.h)

Has some issues.

There are pointers everywhere, even a void* *

It does not use RAII to manage resources, instead there a a bunch of raw pointer with sizes and a manually called free function

void freeAESEncrypted(AESEncResult &aesEnc);

Just from this brief look, it does not at all surprise me that the development velocity is suffering.

Joel's article on why you should never rewrite software is worth mentioning. There is probably a lot of institutional knowledge that is embedded in the code which will be lost if you convert to Go.

A better alternative might be to incrementally update the code to C++17 following C++ best practices [https://github.com/isocpp/CppCoreGuidelines](https://github.com/isocpp/CppCoreGuidelines).

That way you always have a working product, that has the features and performance that people have come to expect, while at the same time you are eliminating technical debt and increasing development velocity.

In regards to the question about networking libraries all conflicting with each other, it is about to get better. The C++ committee will standardize a C++ Networking library in the near future. The good news is that it is based on asio [https://think-async.com/](https://think-async.com/) and asio is tracking the evolving standard. Most new C++ networking libraries are also standardizing on asio.

</comment><comment><USER3> > JVM has very limited integration possibilities with an existing C++ codebase

Java has JNI. How does Go improve on that?

<comment><USER4> You can statically compile your go and c code into a single binary.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> I don't get the point with Java feeling slow because of the slow start time (compared to C++). If I understand correctly Passenger is a server application and this kind of application is typically started rarely and long running, so the start time is a non-issue in most cases.

Another option could have been Swift, what is a more powerful language compared to Go.

</comment><comment><USER6> C# and call it a day.

<comment><USER7> >>>We never considered Java/JVM because although it's high-performance, it doesn't feel fast: slow boot times, high memory usage. These factors are all malleable to a degree (e.g. JVM client mode allows faster boot times, memory usage depends on GC tweaks) but I've never seen a JVM application to be tweaked in such a way that it feels as snappy as a C++ application. To users, feeling fast is just as important as actually being fast. And then there's also the issue that JVM has very limited integration possibilities with an existing C++ codebase.

Most of the principles apply to C# as to their Java dismissal</comment></comment>


The growing role of viruses in cancer - <AUTHOR> http://www.sciencenews.org/view/feature/id/342223/description/Catching_a_Cancer

<comment><USER2> if only he had confidence in himself and continued his research during those 20 years</comment>


Show HN: The simplest way to curate Tweets - <AUTHOR> https://www.hashfav.com <comment><USER2> Thats sick! I can basically I can make my own Twitter Moments. Trying it now! [https://hashfav.com/user/TheCashJordan](https://hashfav.com/user/TheCashJordan)

</comment><comment><USER3> So, you have to reply to someone's tweet to add it to a collection? That seems... less than ideal. Did I miss something?

<comment><USER4> You might be interested in [http://www.tweetd.com/](http://www.tweetd.com/). It extracts links you tweeted and presents them in a easy to use style.

Think of it as your link blog,

for example [http://girishso.tweetd.com](http://girishso.tweetd.com)

Disclosure: I am the developer of Tweetd.</comment></comment>


Jason Calacanis: "There's unlimited amount of capital in the world" - <AUTHOR>

Do you agree?<p>"There's unlimited amount of capital in the world. We are living in the richest period of the history of mankind. There are resources everywhere for people with big ideas to take them freely: youtube, google, facebook and so on."<p>starting at minute 50: http://37signals.com/svn/posts/2219-jason-calacanis-vs-david-heinemeier-hansson-on-this-week-in-startups <comment><USER2> Pretty much. Value is created when two or more parties make mutually beneficial exchanges. The amount of stuff that can be exchanged in a mutually beneficial manner is virtually unlimited. Capital exists for three basic reasons, to liquify value, enable the transport of goods and services across space and time, and to communicate supply and demand of scarce resources.

<comment><USER3> So I guess the counter is that there is limited liquidity, or lack of access, or frozen capital?

If the capital was unlimited, then why dont we have more open funds.

Further, if we really thought that capital was unlimited, would we think that ideas were worth nothing?

If there was unlimited capital then why not have kick-funds of say, $10,000, to simply see effectively any idea to MVP/POC?

Isnt this what YC was, a 15K seed injection to determine the validity of an idea? No, it was a 15K seed to determine the validity of FOUNDERS.

But I do think we need easier access to capital, I just dont think it is unlimited -- or maybe its access is governed by fear.

<comment><USER4> There is no such thing as limited liquidity, it's all based on the perception of value a currency has!

Since currencies are no longer backed by gold, a national bank, f.e. the FED, can print as much money as they want. However, an excess of available money of course leads to its devaluation on the markets.

Nevertheless, there will never be a huge availability of VC money. There are just more easy ways to profit than high risk investments.

And no, no one is gonna back just every idea, that would be silly and lead to nothing.

I think access is also based on perception only. If you think an idea will work and if you believe it can, you'll invest. No one can be sure, it's still a little bit of gambling. As an entrepreneur, you gotta know how to sell your idea, perception counts...

<comment><USER3> I guess limited liquidity is the wrong term, and I meant limited availability -- or maybe restricted/filtered availability. There is tons of funding available should you have an idea good enough and/or the skills to convince others your idea is fundable.</comment></comment></comment></comment>