Ask HN: Co-founder equity question: Always even split? - <AUTHOR>

Assume "Joe" founds a startup, works on it for several months, writes the code, and gets the website up and running.
Then, Joe finds a biz-dev cofounder. They are deciding the equity split.
Should Joe and the cofounder split the company evenly, or does the fact that Joe founded it and worked on it for several months mean that Joe gets more?
What's the etiquette/precedent for this? <comment><USER2> Pretty sure Joe gets more equity here. Joe had the idea, wrote the initial code, and has stuff up and running. I'd guess the split here should be 75/25 if Joe worked on it full time.

If I were the biz-dev cofounder, if Joe gave me 50%, I would ask "why the charity?". In fact, I'd flat out be suspicious.

[http://startuplawyer.com/incorporation/how-to-split-the- star...](http://startuplawyer.com/incorporation/how-to-split-the-startup- founder-equity-pie)

<comment><USER3> I'm not sure I'd be suspicious. Many programmers aren't particularly savvy at business negotiation (hence the need for a biz-dev co-founder).

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> The percent split is up to you guys. I think you should choose what the two of you think is fair to both sides. If this were my company and I were bringing someone onboard 1 year later, I would be thinking about the vesting schedule and possibly using cliff vesting.

[http://startuplawyer.com/incorporation/why-your-startups- fou...](http://startuplawyer.com/incorporation/why-your-startups-founders- stock-should-vest-over-time)

</comment><comment><USER5> All things being equal I wouldn't expect 50/50, but there are a lot of variables to consider beyond a simple time measurement:

Does the cofounder have amazing skills or other benefits to the company so that he's worth more than might be expected?

Has Joe been kind of slacking this entire time, not having done much work or taken much risk, while the cofounder expects to put in hundred-hour weeks and is quitting a high-paying job to take the offer?

<comment><USER6> I think the line that rings truest for me here is "here are a lot of variables to consider beyond a simple time measurement"

Interestingly enough, one of the reasons i enjoy startups, is because it enables one to make decisions that are less constrained by big company style black or white parameters. I.e. When share options are discussed in a big company, the deal is often seen as a zero-sum one. If A gets more shares then B gets less. A gets wealthier and B does not.

In an ideal situation (that is far more visible at small companies and startups), giving A more shares could well result in increased value for B too (since the company value without A drops dramatically).

In an attempt to answer the question somewhat better though, i would suggest you ask yourself not "what have i done till now", but instead, "how critical to our future success is the new guy".

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> There is no rule for how to divide equity. You would divide the shares based on whatever you feel is most appropriate, generally considering time and effort invested by the current founder(s), and the value that the new employee(s) bring into the mix.

If you think about it in the grand scheme of things 'a few months work' is basically a rounding error in terms of all the time and effort that will go into building a company.

</comment><comment><USER8> The amount of equity the new cofounder receives should be such that the value of Joe's equity is substantially greater after the split than before.

I don't think etiquette/precedent is the important issue.

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> FWIW, it's the biz-dev cofounder that is asking for 50/50. Joe thinks he should get more than 50.

Also, Joe has been full time on the startup and the biz dev guy is only part time on it.</comment>


Should UIs be document- or stream- centric? - <AUTHOR> http://bryceharrington.org/drupal/docs_vs_streams

<comment><USER2> >I wonder how non-technical people not knowledgeable about crontab and scripting deal with such things?

I don't know without knowing the contents of his crontab. I can't honestly think how using cron could help you become more stream-centric. I suspect he's using the wrong tool for the job.

</comment><comment><USER3> This is either genius or completely stupid. I can't decide. I'm erring for the former.

Probably this article tells the truth, but not the whole truth.

<comment><USER4> I think the problem with his theory is that he is thinking of the desktop as a single entity. He thinks the _desktop_ should evolve to support streams better. That's a mistake.

The desktop is just a bunch of applications co-existing. Some programs have a document-centric interface because they deal with documents. Others have evolved an interface suited to the streams they deal with. MSN, IRC, RSS aggregators come to mind. I don't think there's more to it.

I agree that people are using streams more than before but I'm not sure of the implications of this fact.

<comment><USER5> I think it's less about people using streams more (though I think that is true) and more a representation of what is happening to information.

In the document (or batch) mode of interaction, you have full knowledge of some set of content. In stream mode, you only know what's happening right now in the stream and what has happened in the past. You don't know what you don't know. Traditional web form submission seems very document/batch oriented. The RIAs being developed are more stream like.

I think there are some fundamental information concepts going on here. We've been treating information like it's a static set, but in reality it's more like a continuous movement of data. At any split second in time, there may be a static representation for some information. It's almost as though every transaction in a relational database is like a single frame in a 3D game. I think this will get more and more stream like and continuous as our systems develop with greater distributed concepts like the semantic web.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> This is intriguing. There is clearly a slow paradigm shift happening that makes Windows/Office less relevant and UNIX-like environments more and more relevant for end users. His terminology wasn't very convincing to me though (documents vs. streams) but that's just details.

I'd rather call it socialization of desktop computers, because the stream of emails, chats, feeds etc that are becoming increasingly important to us is a result of various kinds of virtual social networks we build.

So, if there's a niche for a killer socialization application, what would it look like? I'd imagine, as a random thought, a nice desktop front-end for the _syslog_ , that shows all interesting events happening in the system: new emails, feed updates, software updates, stock market alerts, calendar/todo events etc. The user presumably uses this applet even more often than the FS shell, as objects the user is interested in are mostly opened through the syslog.

<comment><USER7> It's always been faster to write (or modify slightly) an SQL query to give the necessary results than to export the data to comma delimited, import it into Excel, and create a pivot table just so you can click around on it.

When all you have is Excel, everything looks like a spreadsheet (even databases).

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> The OS has 'pipe'

STDIN, STDOUT and STDERR

learnings from the nix</comment>


Why Setting Up SSL Is So Hard - <AUTHOR> https://www.expeditedssl.com/pages/why-is-setting-up-ssl-so-painful

<comment><USER2> Fantastic article. Almost worth using Heroku just for this! SSL is such a pain!!!!!</comment>


Apple apologizes for continued reliability problems with its MacBook keyboards - <AUTHOR> https://www.theverge.com/2019/3/27/18284042/apple-macbook-keyboard-apology-issues-bad-design <comment><USER2> I'm the biggest Apple fanboy out there, but I think they've lost their way and I hope someone helps them find a way back before I need to replace my laptop. Listen guys and gals I know you've worked hard on your news service, and your shiny new credit card but it's time to buckle down and make something worth spending my money on. Something I can use to make media and apps for your users to consume.

</comment><comment><USER3> They could make it a little thicker and use the old keyboard.

While they're at it, add 4 USB-C ports (mouse, keyboard, external SSD) and MagSafe.

I bought a 2010 MacBook Pro and another in 2013. I had an Nvidia problem which took a long time for Apple to finally fix.

I've been reluctant to spend another $2500 for the potential problems and compromises.

<comment><USER4> There are 4 USB-C ports anyway.

And MagSafe is not coming back. AIUI, MagSafe unavoidably led to connection problems with the power cable over time and was a big driver of AppleCare support issues. Anecdotally, I've had multiple laptops where the MagSafe connector got to the point of needing to be jiggled around almost every time I plugged it in before it would start delivering power.

<comment><USER5> >There are 4 USB-C ports anyway.

Only if you buy any MacBook Pro configuration with the touchbar. If you want normal F-keys, you're limited to 2 ports because "fuck you," I guess.

<comment><USER4> Is "fuck you" a euphemism for "you're buying a computer that costs $500 less and as a result probably doesn't have the internal hardware to support 4 separate USB-C ports"?

<comment><USER6> 2 more USB ports costs an extra $500? It's strange because a $15 USB hub plugged into the USB ports works fine. It must be lack of internal space due to not including a touchbar... Wait that doesn't make sense either...

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> From the feeling the 2018/3rd gen butterfly keyboard is much better. The feedback while typing is much better but if I wouldn't make some of my money with iOS development I wouldn't had bought a MacBook (Air in my case).

For my main work where I get a company device I now ordered a non Apple device which is also repairable after the warranty runs out. I fear to become victim of the flexgate where it seems opening and closing your MacBook makes the display cable break...

Edit: they also improved the usb-c ports. They have a clip-feeling now while my 2017 MBP sometimes doesn't charge because the ports are already wonky. such a bad hardware

<comment><USER8> I know it's anecdotal, but I have the most recent MacBook Air and I already get concerning keyboard behaviour like I did with the TouchBar MacBook Pro. I don't have a good feeling about this. Like you, I needed an Apple machine to develop for the App Store.

A $2500 computer's keyboard really shouldn't get stuck keys after a month. I'm absolutely crazy about keeping food/drink/any kind of debris away from it after what happened to my MBP (although that wasn't totally preventable anyway).

Here's hoping, I guess

<comment><USER7> Good luck to you then. I'm also really not happy about the hardware that's why I went for the Air, maybe I should have gone for a used 2016 model instead. It's now the 3rd generation of that keyboard and they still couldn't get it right. I want my hardware to last if I have to pay it myself and I wonder how I deal with it when warranty and repair programs end. Also I wonder how that affects the ability to re-sell it in some years.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> "Appl apologizs for conttinud rliabilitty problms witth itts MacBook kyboards"

FTFY ;-)

<comment><USER10> On my 2018 MBP backspace is what gave first (3 months vs 1month on 2016 one). It occasionally fires more than once, leaving me with tons of weird problems in code...

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> But we have this shiny new credit card that you can use..

<comment><USER12> to buy yourself an expensive underpowered new macbook with a slightly less bad keyboard.

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> Apple didn't apologize in previous widespread issues like Nvidiagate, Radeongate, etc.

I guess "a small number of users" is not entirely accurate.

</comment><comment><USER14> Quit apologizing and just make a machine that is built with reasonable engineering instead of thin above all else.

</comment><comment><USER15> Here's the actual apology, unfortunately behind a paywall (that Outline no longer supports): [https://www.wsj.com/graphics/apple-still-hasnt-fixed-its- mac...](https://www.wsj.com/graphics/apple-still-hasnt-fixed-its-macbook- keyboard-problem/)

</comment><comment><USER16> The absolute minimum "actions speak louder than words" thing for Apple to do at this point is to ship an external keyboard with every new laptop for free. Every single one.

I have a 2013 model that I increasingly worry about. A speaker is dying, the rest is fine but I _still_ don't know what to buy next. I refuse to buy anything without a _brand new_ keyboard design though, that has a non-Touch- Bar option.</comment>


Show HN: Rasa Talk – An open source Watson conversation clone - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/jackdh/RasaTalk/ <comment><AUTHOR> Hello everyone!

After a recent work project which required an on-premise / open source virtual assistant platform we discovered there was not any open source dialog management tools which suited our needs so we built one! We use Rasa for the NLU however that can be swapped out with any NLU you require!

[https://github.com/jackdh/RasaTalk/](https://github.com/jackdh/RasaTalk/)

There is a demo setup as well which will let you play with it a little bit under a demo account: [http://talk.jackdh.com](http://talk.jackdh.com) (email@example.com / demo1234)

Some of the main highlights include

\- Generate Rasa NLU training data easily and quickly.

\- Highlight and select entities within expressions

\- Manage chatbot dialogs with varied responses / slots / webhooks + more.

\- Fine grain permission control for users.

\- In app chatbot tester / NLU parser

\- Hookup to Facebook / Skype / Third party!

We're Looking to get some feedback good or bad so let us know!</comment>


The secret to Farmville isn't gameplay or aesthetics - <AUTHOR> http://mediacommons.futureofthebook.org/content/cultivated-play-farmville <comment> jim-greer There's a lot of validity to this argument, but Farmville is not unique. If you take his criteria and replace Farmville with World of Warcraft, most of it still holds:

 _(1) WoW is defined by obligation, routine, and responsibility;_

 _(2) WoW encroaches and depends upon real life, and is never entirely separate from it;_

 _(3) WoW is always certain in outcome, and involves neither chance nor skill;_

 _(4) WoW is a productive activity, in that it adds to the social capital upon which Blizzard and Activision depend for their wealth;_

 _(5) WoW is governed not by rules, but by habits, and simple cause-and- effect;_

 _(6) WoW is not make-believe, in that it requires neither immersion nor suspension of disbelief._

WoW does require more skill. And it is governed by rules not 'simple cause and effect' - but so is Farmville. WoW is also more immersive.

These differences are what make it a 'better' game to most gamers. But they don't change what the OP finds sociopathic about the game, namely that they're _applications that use people's sociability to control those people, and to satisfy their owners' needs_.

It is much more controlling, it just reaches a narrower audience. It is also equally social - the social interactions are arguably deeper and more meaningful, in fact.

I say this as someone who works in the field of online games (I run Kongregate). I do think the feeling of accomplishment and social satisfaction provided by games are powerful, and not totally positive. I also hope that the positive aspects of online game communities balance this out to some degree.

Edit: WoW succeeded in a competitive field largely on quality (and massive capital outlay). Farmville succeeded through the hyper-fast and skillful application of the A/B-testing 'lean startup' techniques widely admired and practiced by most readers of this site. If you hate it, it's worth thinking about how it came to exist.

<comment><USER2> Hey, good work with Kongregate. It's got a great concept and great execution, though (being a Street Fighter fan) I never really played much beyond Kongai myself.

<comment><USER3> <http://www.kongregate.com/games/GameTap/street-fighter-2-ce>

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> _Nevertheless, it is difficult to imagine seventy-three million people playing a game that isn't fun to play, just to keep up with the Joneses._

I couldn't disagree more with this. Ever glimpsed at WoW guild politics? Many people get involved in this game because it's possible to keep up with the Joneses in-game, if not in real life. This is not a small nitpicking point. Games like these develop complicated social webs and social capital because they create a reality preferable to the one we live in, one in which anyone can see a path to success, a path that they are in control of. The real world is more ambiguous.

<comment><USER5> I was addicted to world of warcraft for about 18 months and I finally came to the conclusion that I was mostly using it as a "success surrogate." It was much easier for me to be successful in game than in real life, and the cycle time was much shorter. In an MMORPG you can achieve meaningful progress in your avatar in one weekend of solid grinding, but in real life to achieve meaningful results usually takes weeks, months or years of hard work. It was partly the immediacy of the rewards that made the game so compelling I think.

<comment><USER6> I think that was a large portion of the attraction for me, too. Plus, all the mental engagement of running a guild filled a void in my life, since my job was not very mentally engaging at the time. (Running a guild is of comparable complexity to running a fairly simple business like a hairdresser or restaurant, except with a bigger staff. You have employee relations, accounting, governance issues, embezzlement, the whole nine yards.)

I've said it before and I'll say it again: you can structure your business such that it is also a success surrogate. Less dragons, better loot.

(A sufficiently data-driven business can produce shiny pixels of happiness every week out of a few hours of effort. Trust me.)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> While it's cool to note that Obama's involved in social media, his appearance in this essay seems a bit tenuous. Roger Caillois is repeatedly quoted and torn down again. His definition of a game is suspect. I don't think immediately think of a game as "free from obligation." To me, it smells like a straw man.

All that aside, I think his analysis of how Zynga made/makes money is pretty fair. The idea of social capital is crucial. But, why is Zynga depicted as evil--even sociopathic--for utilizing that social capital, while Facebook appears to be treated neutrally, and our government officials are portrayed as doing the right thing?

</comment><comment><USER8> Yes, but with my Facebook friends I have taken a decidedly different tack. That is, friends don't let friends play Farmville. My friends don't play Farmville because my friends don't play Farmville. If someone where to, they would be ridiculed. :)

<comment><USER9> Haha...love it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> _If Farmville is laborious to play and aesthetically boring, why are so many people playing it? The answer is disarmingly simple: people are playing Farmville because people are playing Farmville._

Very true from what I have seen. Nobody just starts playing something like Farmville unless someone else has asked them to.

It is kind of sickening to think about how much time is lost to crap like this.

<comment><USER11> >It is kind of sickening to think about how much time is lost to crap like this.

That's rather judgmental re: leisure time. Are you sickened by the time "lost" by people following or playing sports, or reading novels, or watching movies?

<comment><USER12> We can make judgments about leisure activities just as we can about any other part of life. Playing sports, reading novels, and watching (good) movies can all make you a healthier, more reflective person, while being intrinsically entertaining. Even WoW, while it has some disturbing aspects, has the wonder of exploring a fantasy world, online society, and some strategy.

I don't play Farmville but I don't know of anyone that argues it's time well spent. Players don't even seem to be having "fun" by any normal definition. At best, it exploits social rewards to make you conform to the game makers' agenda.

Perhaps it's closer to _fashion_ than recreation; where you're on a consumption treadmill that's largely controlled by others. Without the consolation of having nice clothes or looking any better.

<comment><USER13> You would have to think farmville would have a high churn rate to, I played it casually for about a month before I realised there was little point continuing. Even some of the most dedicated amongst my friends eventually stopped after a few months. If anything the achievements in the game seemed to keep people coming back, even though some of them were just arbitrary large numbers of things done.

I don't think it is really a fun game at all which makes me think how successful a similar game would be if someone got the fun factor right, something like a civ for facebook or something.

<comment><USER10> Yeah, but I think what we would consider fun would pretty much kill a game like Farmville in terms of popularity. I am only guessing... but your typical gamer is not playing Facebook.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> This article helps articulate this deeply creepy feeling I have about where online business is going.

Does anyone else think using "addictive" or "habit-forming" to describe your product design goals is deeply immoral?

And yet this probably appears in a lot of Powerpoints pitched every day in the Valley. I had to sit through just such a presentation a few weeks ago, and I work at a _non-profit_. The whole thrust of this Valley drone's presentation was that he could get users to value anything, any behavior that the customer wanted, by means of psychological tricks and social rewards. Now that may not even be true, but when your Powerpoint starts referencing Pavlov and Zimbardo I think you have to take a look in the mirror.

<comment> jim-greer It depends on the context - selling items on eBay is addictive and habit- forming. So is running your own business, or running marathons.

I notice that you have 2258 karma. I think it's safe to say that you've formed a habit or even addiction to HN, but hopefully a rewarding one.

<comment><USER12> I disagree that these things can be conflated. Just because you find something rewarding, it does not mean you are addicted, or (more broadly) that any of one's reward systems are being manipulated.

If my internal reward systems are telling me that running is good, for the most part it's because running is good.

Even on HN, there's a fundamentally useful activity -- contribution to discussion. The measurement system is distributed to users, but that's because the benefits are similarly distributed.

Things cross into "drug" territory when most of their value comes from tricking your reward system. Even drugs can be beneficial from time to time, but when too much of a person's activity is about chasing simulated rewards, we start calling that person "addicted". Most drugs manipulate the brain's desire for pleasure, or the rush of excitement. If we believe the author of the OP, FarmVille manipulates our desire for social connectedness.

<comment> jim-greer So you can't be addicted to running? Or posting on Hacker News?

You have a fair point, the dictionary definition of addiction includes words like 'damaging' and 'pathological'. But the mechanism of addiction is very similar whether the ends are beneficial or not. And a lot of the people use the word to apply to things that are not terribly negative.

<comment><USER12> Oh, I'll agree with you on that. Sometimes people even use 'addiction' in a positive sense, to describe their dedication to something. But in the context of this debate I want to draw a clearer distinction.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> I find the idea of "sociopathic applications" mentioned in the second last paragraph interesting. I wonder what other applications could be included in that. World of Warcraft? I guess even twitter and facebook are in extreme usage. There's no attempt by those companies to stop people excessively using their services, beyond the point where its beneficial to the individual and only beneficial to the company.

</comment><comment><USER15> This "essay" could have been two paragraphs. I almost stopped reading when the first two were talking about Howard Zinn.

<comment><USER16> Indeed, concise it wasn't. So much filler text such as "With this in mind," "To illustrate,"

This:

"One might speculate that people play Farmville precisely because they invest physical effort and in-game profit into each harvest."

could have been:

"People may play Farmville because they invest effort and in-game profit into each harvest."

It is a horribly written article. Those extra adjectives all over the place offer absolutely nothing. One might speculate that if the comments here on this site - Hacker News - were written deliberately with such very many adjectives, punctuated through out each paragraph and sentence, you may imagine that perhaps one would precisely spend an entire laborious day completing in the end simply a singular article within that languishing timeframe.

<comment><USER17> I thought it flowed very nicely and had a thoughtful, conversational tone. Taken farther, your desire for concision would eventually bring us to a list of Powerpoint bullets.

This style of writing and speaking encourages reflection. When he says "One might speculate", his audience is encouraged to speculate themselves, to question his point, or to ponder if there are perhaps other reasons for why people play. Your revised sentence is dry and scientific, it says, "here's why, period, no need to keep thinking about it."

<comment><USER15> what did the howard zinn paragraphs add that justified the space? How many paragraphs did it take to even get to farmville?

<comment><USER18> The beginning of the essay makes it clear that "This essay was given as a talk at SUNY Buffalo, 28 January 2010, the day after Howard Zinn's death. I have left the text unaltered, to better reflect the spirit of the talk."

So to the audience at the time, the paragraphs were a timely hook that contextualized the idea within a relevant current event. Also, though they're not as well integrated as they could be (perhaps we can forgive the author that one, given that the talk was the day after Zinn's death, so it was a pretty quick addition I'm guessing), they tie back into the overall idea that a democratic society suffers from this kind of gameplay.

<comment><USER15> I understand, and I'm not trying to be a hard ass. It's just that the internet has caused a giant flood of information, and one way I'm trying to cope is to prefer/choose concise and efficient expression. This means that I tend to stop reading or watching if a piece of content seems to take a while to get to the core of it's point.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> Yes, social obligation is an important factor in Farmville's growth, but it's not the main reason people continue playing. Short answer; they enjoy it. The game's basic cycle of "do action x to get a reward and unlock action y which gives a bigger reward and alloys you to do action z..." is one that's optimized to deliver predictable squirts of dopamine into human brains, and is also a mechanic that appears in numerous other games, including more respectable genres like RPGs and strategy games. Farmville and other social games just show you don't need to wrap it in a layer of strategy or skill, though it does mean that people tire of it quite quickly.

Reading this is like watching an alien race trying to figure out why these hairless primates are so fond of naked gymnastics. "It appears to be for procreation, but they frequently use contraceptives, so that can't be it. They're generally lazy, so exercise can't be the motivation. I know! It must be a complicated sense of social obligation."

</comment><comment><USER20> Let me be the first to jump in here and express a certain degree of uncertainty with what the author has written.

While it does seem to be that, in Western societies, the societal pressure to cooperate and reciprocate would encourage people to keep playing, in Asian cultures (read: China), games like FV are based less on cooperation than on "sticking it" to other people.

The local version of FarmVille here is called "Stealing Vegetables" by pretty much everybody who plays it, and you get ahead by sabotaging or stealing your neighbours' vegetables in addition to growing and protecting yours. Kitchen games involve sabotaging ingredients, parking games stealing spots, and so on.

Indeed, a group of us were playing an iPhone game similar to FV called "We Rule", and while it was interesting for the first couple of days, it became so mind-numbingly dull that even the risk of annoying our friends couldn't keep us on the game. Cooperation only motivates so far.

So, while the author has (in a very long and winding way) hit on some interesting points about these games, I think there's still something else at work. My current inclinations all lie in how simple tasks give rewards immediately (see 4square "hey you logged in, get a badge!" or stack overflow "You posted! here's badge!"). By constantly adding new things (WoW even spends lots of energy adding in new mounts, quests, and whatnot) you keep that reward loop active and keep me hoping for more.

</comment><comment><USER21> "Does this mean we are becoming better citizens? Ninety-seven percent of American teenagers play video games.[4] Does this mean they will become more politically active? Before you dismiss these questions, keep in mind that in October 2008, then-Senator Barack Obama became the first U. S. Presidential candidate to advertise in video games"

I stopped reading at this lapse in logic.

Besides, how can one cite Caillois without citing Huizinga. Caillois admits his project is little more than a commentary on Homo Ludens.

<comment><USER22> "I stopped reading..."

I see this phrase regularly, but I don't really understand it. Does it mean you read no further into the article, or did you actually read more, if not all, but use this phrase to signify that you disagree.

I find the idea of only reading until you find something you disagree with curious. It seems to indicate a belief that one flaw in a person's work invalidates the remainder of that work. Surely you don't consume opinion in a binary fashion, either accepting or rejecting it in its entirety, but rather you have the ability to consider each point and reject some and accept others based on their merit?

[pulls rant up short]

Not meaning to single you out, you just happened to use that phrase at the same time that I had time to reply

<comment><USER23> I don't stop reading when I disagree with something, but I have stopped reading when there's something so ridiculously off-base that it throws everything else the author may think about the topic into question. If there's a fundamental misunderstanding of some aspect of a given topic, it makes it likely the rest is not worth reading.

I'm not obligated to read anything, and if the author is wrong on basic topics, I'll not be giving them more of my time.

It's rare, but it does happen.

<comment> jim-greer Do you post your opinion of the article afterwards?

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> In brief: _Farmville is popular because in entangles users in a web of social obligations._

People are built to be social and be entangled in social obligations with other people. This may be less reflected in modern life than before but the tendency to get involved in that is nothing but gone. Earlier, these social obligations had a big role in reducing risk of famine and ensuring the continuum of life by making people do things together and keeping them doing that.

</comment><comment><USER25> I do not like Zynga Farm Spam.. I do not like spam, Sam-I-am.

I do not like them in my house. I do not play them with a mouse. I do not like Spam here or there. I do not like them anywhere. I do not like Zynga Farm Spam. I do not like it, Sam-I-am.

</comment><comment><USER26> You know in the good old days we called it SPAM, today we call it 'social integration'.

</comment><comment><USER9> Bizarre article.

After lots of fluff, it delivers some good insights into why the game succeeded, then calls on our moral obligations to stand up to sociopathic corporations?

Did not see that coming.

</comment><comment><USER27> This is the sort of thing that should be taught in university computing degrees -- much more interesting than CS.

<comment><USER28> Sure, because BS on user interface is more important than logic, automata theory, and complexity. If you don't like the _Science_ in _Computer Science_ you can always go to the Humanities side of the campus and engage in intellectual circle jerks with a buch of self-important morons.

<comment><USER27> You can of course perform experiments to see whether the author is correct. Those sorts of social experiments should also be part of a computing degree.

<comment><USER29> No, they shouldn't. They should be part of a sociology, communications, or (once the field starts having its own departments) HCI degree. You might think case studies of social experiments are important, and I might even agree, but they're not computer science (or "computing").

<comment><USER30> Cognitive science departments (at universities that have them) generally provide wonderful coverage of HCI topics, though some CS/EECS/CE departments do as well.

<comment><USER29> Sure - my point was that you can't really get a degree in HCI yet. But once you can, they'll include case studies of the referred to social experiments.

<comment><USER30> Just FYI: Yes you can and yes they do: [http://www.cogsci.ucsd.edu/undergraduate- study/major/major-u...](http://www.cogsci.ucsd.edu/undergraduate- study/major/major-ug_specialization.php#hci)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER31> After reading this, I wish I could blog better. I also wish the author of this article could write better, because he seems to make a lot of the same mistakes I make.

Some good points, and a thread of relevance here, but aside from a general call to analysis I didn't see a lot to chew on. The best line in the whole piece was _We are obligated to examine what we are doing, whether we are updating our Facebook status or playing Call of Duty, because the results of those actions will ultimately be our burden, for better or for worse_

The worst line came soon after, _democracy depends upon demophilia, or love of the people._ I'll leave the analysis of that one as an exercise to the reader.

There just wasn't that much here.</comment>


Checked C: extension to C that adds static and dynamic checking - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/Microsoft/checkedc#checked-c <comment><USER2> From the technical paper:

        Checked C adds new types to C:
        • ptr<T>, the checked pointer to singleton type,
        • array_ptr<T>, the checked pointer to array type,
        • T checked[N], the checked array type,

Many people have been down that road. GCC had "fat pointers" for subscript checking years ago.[1] That never caught on. Walter Bright had a proposal.[2] I had a proposal. Microsoft had "Managed C++". It's technically possible, but retrofitting old code rarely happens.

[1] [http://williambader.com/bounds/example.html](http://williambader.com/bounds/example.html) [2] [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8509155](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8509155)

<comment><USER3> It only works when companies take the "my way or the high way" approach.

Hence why Microsoft went C++ and .NET Native, keeping C compatibility just as far as ANSI C++ requires it. And support C++ kernel code since Windows 8.

Why the NDK is such a pain to use on Android, with a very tiny API surface.

Why all Objective-C improvements are now only related to improve interoperability with Swift.

So maybe if Microsoft decides to also force Checked C on Windows, it might eventually work.

<comment><USER2> 10-15 years ago, Microsoft had the clout to do that. They no longer do.

<comment><USER3> They still do, just in HN bubble people think they don't.

Azure is a money printing machine, the "Year of Desktop Linux" will never happen, hybrid tablets/laptops with Windows are being bought instead of Android ones, IoT devices for healthcare or ticketing machines run on Windows, on the enterprise Linux mostly matters on the server room, they own PC/XBox gaming.

So just like Apple and Google, they can do whatever they feel like it, because non-technical consumers aren't going to suddenly start buying alternative systems, just because devs don't like Apple, Google and Microsoft roadmaps regarding which programming languages one is allowed to use on their systems.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> I highly recommend the Static Analyzer that clang already uses. I use this frequently in the C project I am currently working on, and it's very good at spotting memory leaks and other potential issues. I've had more than one occasion where I've looked at an issue it's reported and said, nah, this is a false positive...oh, no, wait.

</comment><comment><USER5> It's apparently a Microsoft research project: [https://www.microsoft.com/en- us/research/project/checked-c/?...](https://www.microsoft.com/en- us/research/project/checked-c/?from=http%3A%2F%2Fresearch.microsoft.com%2Fen- us%2Fprojects%2Fcheckedc%2Fdefault.aspx)

Very interesting to add additional compiler support to am existing language, in a sense. Sanitizers and static analyzers have made C/C++ much more bearable, and this adds to the pile!

</comment><comment><USER6> If anyone is looking for a battle-tested (sometimes literally) production ready, statically and dynamically checked C-like language, take a look at [https://ada2012.org](https://ada2012.org)!

<comment><USER7> Ada is in practice almost completely maintained by one single (consulting) company, Adacore, who, except for the GNAT compiler, release all of their OSS contributions under GPLv3 "to limit your freedom [of use/reuse]" (it's mentioned explicitly on their Website).

They do NOT want an autonomous Ada community to pop up, they just want to attract programmers they can contract. Since they're basically the only noteworthy contributors for Ada, they're impossible to bypass, hence using Ada means submitting to Adacore's whims.

Ada is indeed a very well designed language, and with some recent language revisions, so have you ever wondered why it did not get any traction at all? Well, that's why.

Every 6 months or so on HN or Reddit, someone rediscovers Ada, gets psyched and tells everyone ... and then discovers the licensing / controlled ecosystem issues, and walks away. And we don't hear about it. For about 6 months.

<comment><USER3> Adacore is not the only compiler vendor in town.

[https://www.ghs.com/products/ada_optimizing_compilers.html](https://www.ghs.com/products/ada_optimizing_compilers.html)

[https://www.ptc.com/en/products/developer- tools/objectada](https://www.ptc.com/en/products/developer-tools/objectada)

[https://www.ptc.com/en/products/developer- tools/apexada](https://www.ptc.com/en/products/developer-tools/apexada)

Ada it is pretty live in European universities, a constant presence at FOSDEM during the last decades, and high integrity computing conferences.

Also, if you want the industry to care about any C or C++ feature, you have to buy your seat at the ANSI/ISO table.

<comment><USER7> You are correct, but I was speaking in terms of general-purpose programming, with an OSS/free implementation available, and to my knowledge all the other vendors only target the embedded and high-integrity spaces. And they cost money.

Moreover Adacore is the only one to have a general-purpose OSS (albeit kind of captive) ecosystem.

Your ANSI/ISO remark is off-topic. You don't need a seat there to use the extensive C++ ecosystem. With Adacore it's either GPLv3 all the way or you pay up. Also, to underline their gatekeeper status even more: they could one day decide to stop releasing their compiler to GNAT, without giving any reason, and there's nothing anyone could do about it.

<comment><USER3> > You don't need a seat there to use the extensive C++ ecosystem.

Thanks to GCC and Sun, and later Apple.

GCC was a toy compiler until Sun decided to start charging for their UNIX development SDK, which made many companies contribute to GCC's development.

Likewise if it wasn't for GPLv3, Apple would probably never bothered to create clang.

> With Adacore it's either GPLv3 all the way or you pay up

Actually I do have issues with people earning money with the work from others for free without contributing anything back.

GPLv3 is quite appealing for free software.

Want to earn money without contributing anything back? Use commercial licensed software.

> Also, to underline their gatekeeper status even more: they could one day > decide to stop releasing their compiler to GNAT, without giving any reason, > and there's nothing anyone could do about it.

There is always the very latest GPLv3 version, that everyone willing to contribute can carry on using.

<comment><USER8> > Actually I do have issues with people earning money with the work from > others for free without contributing anything back.

With the BSD license, you can fork it all you want, but you have to maintain that fork. For most people/companies the feature is not a competitive advantage. So they donate the code back, and it means they don't have to spend so much time maintaining a fork.

The way I see it is, I'm a working stiff that's used a lot of opensource in the past. I don't mind releasing things as BSD clause to help another working stiff, as long as it doesn't contain my company's "secret sauce."

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> One thing that C should have is an automatic string type (more like a byte[] than a String) that knows its own size. A huge amount of programming bugs arise from the lack of strings, and I can't see the reason why they could not be supported even in small systems. Delphi/Object Pascal had something like 3 or 5 function pointers that support the string type (create, free, resize, things like that).

<comment><USER10> The funny thing is that the memory allocator typically knows the size of the string.

You call free(foo) not free(foo, 12) or free(foo, strlen(foo));

But there's no standard way to ask for this size. Why doesn't strcpy just check with the allocator about how much memory is available and refuse to write past that.

<comment><USER11> Not every string is allocated from the heap. There is no way to know if a string passed to a function, for example, came from the heap or not.

<comment><USER10> That's true, although there's no reason the stack allocator couldn't record this information somewhere as well.

And if the memory allocator doesn't know about the string then you could just revert to the existing behaviour so you're no worse off.

<comment><USER12> There's more ways to allocate memory than the heap and stack.

<comment><USER13> What are you referring to? sbrk? mmap? I typically use either the heap or the stack myself.

<comment><USER14> Static memory is at the bottom of the address space, below the heap. But that would really only be relevant in the case of string literals unless I'm mistaken.

<comment><USER15> You can have a static buffer:

        static char buf[128];

and use strcpy() at any point to copy into it, so I don't think statically allocated strings must be literals.

<comment><USER13> There is a distinction between const and non-const static memory, though, in that the former can be stored in Read-Only Memory. Still, static memory is generally used for many fewer purposes than the stack or the heap, and if I understand correctly, sbrk is still working with the heap, just more manually.

<comment><USER14> That's right. Allocators use the sbrk and mmap to manage the heap. IIRC high performance allocators tend to use mmap exclusively.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> Is there a whitepaper associated with this? I found the project page and the github page, but I want to see:

a) What's involved in getting the C code to be 'safe' \- how much annotation overhead, etc

b) How this interacts with C Preprocessor

c) What the runtime overhead is (usually the killer)

<comment><USER17> There is a specification: [https://github.com/Microsoft/checkedc/releases/download/v0.7...](https://github.com/Microsoft/checkedc/releases/download/v0.7-final/checkedc-v0.7.pdf)

We have been trying to publish a paper on this, perhaps one day we will be successful! Our runtime overhead is very good, and our interaction with the preprocessor is minimal.

<comment><USER16> Wonderful, thank you for the link.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> I wish that when all these guys tried to create a better C/C++ they made it compatible such that I could create shared libraries usable from other languages.

C, not even C++, is still the only common denominator between languages. The fact that I cannot create a shared library in Golang or Python that is callable from the other is very disappointing.

<comment><USER19> I wonder if that has more to do with C++ undefined name mangling than anything else. C exports are beautifully simple to read. C++ exports on the other hand are some sort of alternate reality mind-bending shitstorm due to the language not defining a scheme for decorators.

Maybe I'm wrong and hopefully someone can correct me; I don't have deep export knowledge outside of simply using C exports, but it seems this decision has had long-standing repercussions for people wanting to use FFIs outside of C.

</comment></comment><comment><USER20> Anyone know what stage the implementation ([https://github.com/Microsoft/checkedc- clang](https://github.com/Microsoft/checkedc-clang)) is at, is it ready for use?

<comment><USER21> It is not ready for production use.

Do try it out though!

</comment></comment><comment><USER22> How does this compare to SAL, out of interest? Somewhat competing aims, no?

</comment><comment><USER23> the github is just a spec, you have to use llvm/clang to use this extension. it would be nice to make this an independent executable to do C checking, apparently not the case here.

</comment><comment><USER24> How does it compare to CCured ?</comment>


Tuxedo Book BA15: AMD-only and Linux-preinstalled laptop - <AUTHOR> https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/en/Linux-Hardware/Linux-Notebooks/15-16-inch/TUXEDO-Book-BA15-Gen10.tuxedo <comment><USER2> I purchased a Tuxedo laptop last summmer in order to support Linux only hardware vendors, but sadly it's been one of the worst computers - with the worst customer service - I've ever used. Sending it back for repairs doesn't help - they ignore the issues and fail to resolve them. At one point I didn't get a response for weeks. I'm not sure how their trustpilot score recently improved from fair / bad to great, but I'm suspicious that they could make such a turnaround so quickly. Read the bad reviews and they're quite consistent. [https://au.trustpilot.com/review/tuxedocomputers.com](https://au.trustpilot.com/review/tuxedocomputers.com)

<comment><USER3> I second this. Bought a notebook from them in 2016 and it was one of the worst purchases. The fan last around 8-12 months before it craps out. (went through 3 so far) The power supply is fragile, and I had to solder it several times already. The support ... well I asked them about when they would ship a bios update for some common vulns - first I got denials that these (Intel ME) vulns "aren't an issue" because you need physical access to the machine. Once the news about the vulns hit mainstream media they promised to email me with updates about their latest updates. After most my colleagues machines from other vendors had been patched after few months but they still had not shipped any fix. After 1 year of back and forth and empty promises about "stay tuned" or "please check our website for updates" I eventually told them to get f'ed.

It seems the people who work there also have little love for the community they serve. They use the FOSS/Freedom type of branding to sell into a niche of gullible enthusiasts (like myself) who believe that supporting such companies makes a difference. The prices don't justify the product. You're better off building your own system from scratch or buying a more commonly available brand for 30% less of the price. It's not like they invest some of the money back into developing replacements for proprietary binary blobs or open hardware or any of these things. You want to stay away from this company and the rubbish they're peddling!

<comment><USER4> Hmm, these are disappointing reviews ... specs and price look quite good.

I really want a company like this to succeed with Linux first laptops! Maybe System76 is closer to making it happen? I have really enjoyed pop!_os, so I'm considering one of their machines for my next laptop.

<comment><USER5> I have a System76 laptop, a Gazelle 17-inch. See [0] for exact specs.

pop_os! has been fantastic, though it has some ways to go, particularly in the power management department. Overall, the biggest drawback is definitely the battery life. If you look around for System76 laptop reviews you'll see that battery life is a consistent issue. I'm able to get ~1.5-2 hours on integrated graphics, about 45 minutes using Nvidia graphics.

At first I thought it was just the battery/device itself, (the device is largely is a rebranded Clevo laptop with System76's firmware and other custom parts), so I installed Windows on the machine to see what kind of battery life I'd get under that. Windows was able to get ~6 hours with the same workflow (mostly browsing, streaming, email) and ~4 hours with the Nvidia graphics.

[0]: [https://system76.com/guides/gaze14/17b](https://system76.com/guides/gaze14/17b)

<comment><USER6> Anecdata, but I had a Dell xps 15 with discrete nvidia graphics. Similar numbers to yours. For my next laptop I got a Thinkpad X390 and this little 13" laptop gets about 4-6 hours on linux, without any tweaking.

<comment><USER7> They claim up to 17.6 hours in tech specs. Did you check your workflow with Windows? 4-6 hours is nice, but if you could get full work day with Windows, it doesn't look that impressive.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> This is a rebranded laptop from an ODM [1]. It is also available from Schenker [2] and was reviewed by the Notebookcheck [3]. It looks really good, but I would love a few things to be fixed/updated: better 16:10 screen, Ryzen 4000, more USB-C ports, USB-C charging and dual-channel memory.

___________

[1] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_design_manufacturer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_design_manufacturer)

[2] [https://www.schenker-tech.de/en/schenker-via-15-en](https://www.schenker- tech.de/en/schenker-via-15-en)

[3] [https://www.notebookcheck.net/Schenker-VIA-15-Laptop- Review-...](https://www.notebookcheck.net/Schenker-VIA-15-Laptop-Review-a- lightweight-AMD-notebook.460698.0.html)

<comment><USER9> And an eraser stick with the option to disable the trackpad in the BIOS. This is what keeps me coming back to Lenovo.

EDIT: This is not intended as a shameless plug for Lenovo, I just have so many false touches with trackpads, and I wish eraser sticks were more common, outside of a diminishing percent of Lenovo and a small percent of Dells.

<comment><USER10> I think you are using the phrase "shameless plug" incorrectly. "shameless plug" is normally used to advertise _your own_ merchandize. For example, a Youtuber talking about his/her other Youtube channel shamelessly. However, in your comment I think you meant to say "a dig" instead of "shameless plug". "This is not intended as a dig on Lenovo...", or "I'm not trying to pick on Lenovo..." cheers

<comment><USER9> What I'm saying is that, because I need an eraser stick, I can only consider Lenovo (and some Dells). And I wish I had more options.

<comment><USER11> I'm in exactly the same boat. TrackPoint 4 life, yo.

What's extra weird is that the first TrackPoint laptops appeared more than 20 years ago, so any IBM/Lenovo patents on the technology must have expired by now...

<comment><USER12> A square trackpad being required for laptops by Microsoft or something.

Also third party TrackPoints don't have that magical touch, they're hard or slippery or drifting more often or combinations of them. Some UMPC models from Sony, Fujitsu, OQO, Palm ARM laptop prototype had it I think, recently GPD had it.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> I really appreciate how descriptive they are in the specs.

` Battery life: (with our optimizations) about 25 hours at min. display- brightness, without Wifi & Bluetooth, without keyboard backlit, in idle mode about 13 hours at medium brightness with Wifi, at office work

We're testing battery time always in idle mode, at minimal display brightness, with keyboard backlight deactivated, WIFI & Bluetooth disabled and without any further connected devices (USB, LAN, HDMI, VGA etc. unplugged!). This way you get an information of maximal possible battery life. Starting from this you can manage your individual battery life depending on your demands and to influence it e.g. is keyboard backlight unnecessary during daylight. Bluetooth is also only needed to be turned on, if there's a Bluetooth device connected. Full display brightness as well is hardly always necessary. `

or their disclaimer about the display panel:

` Modern displays with IPS panels have bright areas along the frame as a normal characteristic. This has hardly any influence on everyday operation, not least because the displays are optimized for daylight operation. It can only be minimized, but not completely avoided, regardless of the manufacturer and for manufacturing reasons. `

</comment><comment><USER14> Just ran the configurator, the price is _really_ good IMO. With memory maxed out (32GB), a 1TB SSD and WiFi 6 it's only 1099 EUR.

Too bad it's not offered with a 4K display. And personally I would have preferred a TB3 port over all the I/O that this machine has build-in. When on- the-go I'm using wireless connectivity anyway, and at my desk I like to use a TB3 dock with PD as an all-in-one docking solution. Not supporting charging trough USB-PD is also missed opportunity.

<comment><USER15> There are tradeoffs with this machine compared to a Macbook Pro. Intel laptops also have twice as fast USB along with Thunderbolt 3. At 350 cd/m2 and 84% sRGB the relatively low resolution screen is also going to be darker with poor color reproduction.

However, in addition to the CPU power, and a sane configuration being half the price, the weight looks really good. At 1.4 kg (3.1 lbs) it weighs like a 13" MacBook Pro rather than a 15 or 16 inch one. I've found the difference between 3 and 4 lbs surprisingly noticeable if frequently moving the computer or commuting with it.

<comment><USER16> > There are tradeoffs with this machine compared to a Macbook Pro. Intel > laptops also have twice as fast USB along with Thunderbolt 3.

On the other hand, this has a builtin HDMI port, ethernet port and the capacity for internal expansion (unlike the Macbook), so the performance for external expansion is a lot less relevant.

Who wants to carry around a bunch of overpriced dongles anyway?

> At 350 cd/m2 and 84% sRGB the relatively low resolution screen is also going > to be darker with poor color reproduction.

I wish somebody would make laptops with high quality screens and low end everything else. Sometimes that's all you need.

Plus, the low end processors often have the best battery life.

<comment><USER15> Sadly, the plain MacBook doesn't have a low end price. :)

An upcoming ARM MacBook could be a great machine for a text editor, terminal, and browser, but I fear there will be new user limitations that block customizations like Karabiner and Hammerspoon that I would miss too much.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> A bit surprised by the amount of negative comments about the company in here, so I feel that I have to offer a different perspective: I ordered a 14" fanless linux laptop from them about one year ago and that's one of the best laptop I ever owned. It's fast, has a great mate screen of the right proportion, decent backlit keyboard with no crazy layout (which has become rare recently), better than average trackpad (although nothing like that of a Mac), good battery. Of course being fanless it is also 100% silent. And it runs Linux flawlessly (I've run debian and nixos on it).

Only downsides I can think of are the specific charger cord (as opposed to USB) and its large-ish besel which makes it a bit too large for comfortable use in planes or trains.

I also interacted with support at the time because I had not heard from UPS and I remember them as quite quick to answer and friendly.

Overall, I'm afraid this thread might leave readers with an unfair impression on the company. Maybe not all of their laptop have the same quality? Mine is actually a Clevo, branded as "infinitybook 14".

</comment><comment><USER18> Just as an anecdotal counterpoint to all the negative reviews here: I have a 2015 Tuxedo notebook that is still going strong, and never had any issue with it. There is quite a bit of fan noise, which I don't hear as I'm typically using a noise-cancelling headset anyway. The keyboard is rather flimsy and the build quality is definitely not on par with Dell XPS or a T-series Lenovo, at least for this model: in my use case (using external keyboard and monitor 99% of the time) this is not an issue, so I'm (still) quite happy with it. As others have already said, the pricing is hard to beat and its Ubuntu setups are well configured.

I also had very positive interactions with their support staff; very friendly and knowledgeable. I have yet to see a piece of Tuxedo hardware fail, and know several people who are using their hardware (both laptops and workstations, which are even nicer and have a much better build quality IMO).

</comment><comment><USER19> I bought a tuxedo laptop for my work but the experience has been very bad. I WOULD NOT recommend them.

They overturned the screws of the cooling fans with the cooling upgrade I ordered, and ordering spareparts is a hassle (Takes very long, sending constant reminders and getting sarcastic responses).

Tried to be smart guy and support FOSS suppliers in the process, but now I get laughed at at work for having the most ghetto laptop in the office.

</comment><comment><USER20> I have a Tuxedo Infinitybook pro 14 v4, fully maxed out. I love it. It's dirt cheap and everything works out of the box. I was a little concerned about moving from Mac to Linux but I can sync my phone, I can print, I can connect to all my bluetooth devices, external displays work nicely, it sleeps properly, battery life is Ok...

</comment><comment><USER21> Nice, except for the screen. FullHD is the new "barely adequate". But at least it is non-glare, not "bathroom-mirror" finish. The latter would be unacceptable due to workplace regulations here.

<comment><USER22> What regulations advise screen reflectivity?

<comment><USER23> Not the OP, but one example (UK specific but guided by European law) is The health and safety (display screen equipment) regulations 1992, as amended by the health and safety (miscellaneous amendments) regulations 2002 [1]

Under the heading Requirements for Work Stations (Reg 3. and schedule):

24 Regulation 3 requires workstations to meet the requirements of the Schedule, (subject to the proviso outlined below), which sets out minimum requirements for the display screen, keyboard, desk, chair, work environment (including working space, lighting, reflection and glare, noise, heat and humidity), task requirements and software. Requirements are set out in fairly general terms, eg "The seat shall be adjustable in height". The Schedule does not contain technical detail.

Paragraph 32 states that anti-glare filters must be provided by workplaces which use DSE (display screen equipment) which are capable of projecting glare.

[1] [https://www.hse.gov.uk/foi/internalops/ocs/200-299/oc202_1.h...](https://www.hse.gov.uk/foi/internalops/ocs/200-299/oc202_1.htm)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> > 1x USB 3.2 Gen1 Typ-C (DisplayPort: no; Power Delivery: no)

So close. Why would you release laptop like this in 2020?

</comment><comment><USER25> Isn't only 1 stick of RAM leaving a lot of perf on the table with these APU's not having dual channels?

</comment><comment><USER26> Dang. This looks like something that could replace my aging T460s (which has a garbage trackpad, and cost over 2000 eur with all its 8GB of RAM; Linux keeps OOMing and freezing all the time[1]).

Ryzen 4000 series would be nice. 17" would be nice. But 3000 series Ryzen and 15.6" screen is already a decent upgrade over my Thinkpad with i7-6600U..

I'm feeling conflicted because it's obviously not a dream-come-true laptop, but the price point seems very very reasonable (and if I wait for the perfect laptop, I might have to wait forever).

[1] [https://lkml.org/lkml/2019/8/4/15](https://lkml.org/lkml/2019/8/4/15)

Just this morning I found my laptop non-responsive and spinning the fan at full speed. I cut the power. It's probably been thrashing all night. In my case, "this little crisis" never lasts for just a few minutes, it'll last as long as I care to wait (I've waited hours and it never recovered).

EDIT: Specs say there's a 9-in-1 card reader, but in photos I only see a micro SD slot.. what am I missing?

<comment><USER27> Odd, I've had nothing but positive experiences with Linux on Thinkpads for 3 machines running (t61p, x220, now an x260).

Not sure what distro you're using, but from what I hear, a lot of the Fedora devs use Thinkpads, so if you're on a thinkpad, Fedora workstation is likely to be your best bet (which is what I've been using for quite a while now).

For me right now, the upcoming T14 is the thing to beat, even for a Linux laptop. Given its got a 4k screen and my anecdotally positive experience with the Linux/Thinkpad combo. So I don't know if I'll jump onto Tuxedo or System76.

<comment><USER28> I have a P50 and on:

\- Ubuntu 18.04, I couldn't get the screen back after docking

\- Fedora 31, it would crash at least every other time I brought it up from sleep. Also crashed after being on Zoom for more than an hour.

Just switched to Arch last night and so far so good (well after disabling hybrid graphics that is).

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER29> How are you supposed to plug 2 screens? Graphic card description says it should be possible, but there is only one HDMI port for video output

<comment><USER30> USB-C?

<comment><USER31> The USB-C ports do not support DisplayPort.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER32> I very much suspect this is a relabeled Qinghua Tongfang machine.

Almost all OEM laptops with 4 __* Ryzens are made by them.

</comment><comment><USER33> Ended up getting an e595 thinkpad with ryzen several months ago, flashed it with pop-os. Originally there was all kinds of problems; opening chrome would completely freeze the computer, the computer would not come out of suspend mode so I had to shut it down, battery life is probably less than 4 hours. With the latest pop-os everything is fine now.

If I were to do it again I would probably get an intel cpu for any laptop just because good battery life ended up being much more important than any cpu power gain for me. I definitely would have spent a little more on getting one pre-installed with linux just knowing it would have good hardware support. Older laptops seem to always work great, but anything new always has a chance of having some hardware issues.

<comment><USER34> Ryzen 4000 laptops promise to improve battery life to match Intel.

[https://www.anandtech.com/show/15624/amd-details-renoir- the-...](https://www.anandtech.com/show/15624/amd-details-renoir-the-ryzen- mobile-4000-series-7nm-apu-uncovered/3)

<comment> ben-schaaf If you normalize for performance the ryzen 4000 laptops should have considerably better battery life than comparable intel models, at least while under load if not idle.

<comment><USER35> ... Who would do that?

Most people want to know how long it lasts on a charge. If it lasted 30 minutes but was the cheapest, literally nobody would say "If you normalize for cost, it lasts the longest".

<comment> ben-schaaf How long it lasts on a charge obviously depends on what you're doing with it. Normalizing for performance gives you the efficiency of the system for getting work done.

Compiling/testing software is part of my job, so whether a laptop can complete 200 compiles on battery power or 500 is something I care about. If you only care about how long a laptop can idle for under battery you might as well take a screenshot, print it out and you've got yourself a couple thousand years of 'battery life'.

<comment><USER35> Good point, but by context, wasn't GP talking about the same load?

If somebody says "The battery performance is poor" I don't assume they go from compiling all day to writing in Notepad when making the comparison - I assumed they meant "For the work the laptop was purchased for".

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER36> Compared to my HP ZBook from 2014:

Pro:

\- No number pad, I really love this. I could finally align the center the laptop with my body.

\- Smaller footprint, same screen size. Nice to have.

\- Half the weight. Good.

\- Much better battery. Nice to have.

\- Lower price for the same configuration (32 GB / 2 TB.) Good.

Cons:

\- No physical touchpad buttons. I really hate this.

\- Generally awful reviews of the company in the other comments here. Probably a deal breaker.

I didn't investigate the self serviceability of the hardware and the availability of spare parts. The ZBook is great about that. I'm also used to next business day on site repairs from HP for the first 3 years. The last time the package cost about 100 Euro. That's important. I've got an old spare computer but I can't do everything there.

<comment><USER37> > Generally awful reviews of the company in the other comments here. Probably > a deal breaker.

There are also good reviews in the thread. I'm sure we can find similar reviews about any other random laptop brand, except that there you pay the Microsoft tax and they aren't merely showing little love for techies' issues but instead never even heard of the word Linux and require that you reproduce issues on "a normal system like Windows" before they accept it could be their hardware that's faulty.

I don't have experience with Tuxedo Computers, but this is Germany. The EU warranty and 'remote purchase' laws ("koop op afstand", not sure how to translate) are quite excellent (even if the Dutch are better). It might be a headache to get issues fixed depending on how stubborn they are, but rotten apple stories about support is not something I'd generally reject European hardware for.

(I once had a drone from a company that was beyond stubborn, and while I wouldn't wish that experience upon anyone, I learned a lesson or two and now feel a lot more confident in dealing with companies unresponsive to warranty claims: they really don't have many options when you send them registered snailmail stating your claim and subsequent steps if they don't fulfill or refute the claim. If someone had told me to start doing that earlier instead of trusting promises to fix it or call me back or whatever, I'd have saved a lot of time, but I eventually realized how the game was to be played.)

<comment><USER38> > The EU warranty and 'remote purchase' laws [...] are quite excellent

There is a large difference between buying as a consumer and business/freelancer, though. If the laptop is outright terrible, but not technically _broken_, then there's not much you can do but eat the cost. Even selling it on eBay becomes complicated because now you have to follow EU law if a consumer buys it.

Written on a MacBook that I wish I could have returned...

<comment><USER37> Yeah, when you buy it for your work without paying taxes on it, you also don't get the consumer benefits. At least that's how it works in NL: if you buy it as a work necessity, you don't pay BTW/VAT/GST on it, but then you indeed don't get the 14 day "I changed my mind" period and I don't know how it works with the standard 2-year warranty.

In general though...

> If the laptop is outright terrible, but not technically _broken_

Then it depends on whether it is as advertised or, if a certain feature was not specified, as one may reasonably expect. In an extreme example, a washing machine that turns out to play annoying music while running is not as one should expect; or if it was advertised that it would play music but it doesn't... Finally, it depends on whether you talked to the merchant. Anything they said can be seen as "as advertised", though of course anything not in writing would be hard to prove.

So it depends on what you mean by "terrible". It sounds to me like you mean something worse than some annoyances or that it's a good laptop but doesn't fit your purpose (assuming that that the merchant did not claim it would do well for your purpose, if you explained your use case to them). You might have a case there, if you tell them as soon as you become aware of the defect(s).

Of course, there are also merchants that are simply nice and will let you exchange it for a product of similar value. I had that with my most recent laptop: in hindsight, I should just not have let the 14 days expire and I should have returned it without strings attached. (It was good hardware and I told myself that, with enough time and customization, I'd be able to work on Windows again since the Linux drivers didn't work at all. But after 3.5 weeks I was absolutely _done_ with Windows.) I asked the merchant and they let me exchange it, but their laptop selection was limited (as with any store), and while I now got something I'm not perfectly happy with, it's still a lot better than the thing I initially had.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER39> Not sure if any representative from Tuxedo are reading. There are spelling mistakes;

 _Another highlight of the TUXEDO Book BA15 is its elegant and durable chassis, which is partly made of magnesium allow (AZ91D) (display cover as well as baseunit), while aluminum is used on the bottom panel._

Magnesium "Alloy", and "base unit". And in other places, "videostreaming",

On another note, if AMD have sufficient capacity right at launch for AMD Ryzen 5 3500U to be used by so many ODM models suggests it might not be doing so well in the Top 5 laptop brand which represent 80% of the market. And if you exclude Apple, it is close to 90%.

<comment><USER40> A bit confusing since the APUs are offset by a generation, by the 3500U is a 12nm GF Zen+ part that is over a year old at this point (the first models launched last spring). The new (significantly better) 7nm Zen2 APUs are the 4000 series, which have been trickling out in models since April.

<comment><USER39> Oh my bad. Yes I look at 3000 Series and immediately thought it was the 7nm Zen 2.

Still wished AMD had not used this marketing naming.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER41> I've bought a Tuxedo as work laptop for my parents and they couldn't be happier. The hardware looks and works great and Tuxedo Linux runs effortless and does automatic updates.

I'd definitely recommend it.

<comment><USER36> How does Tuxedo Linux differ from vanilla Ubuntu?

<comment><USER41> It's pretty much a reskin only, with relevant software (i.e. modem) installed. It might be a different WM as well (I don't use Ubuntu Desktop so I can't compare) , but it's nothing too unusual.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER42> now with 16:10 and ryzen 4000 series

</comment><comment><USER43> Some bad reviews here, so I'd encourage people to look into some of the AMD APU laptops from Acer and others. I have an Acer Swift 3 with 2700u APU and it runs Linux (Ubuntu) flawlessly apart from the fingerprint reader. Suspend, function keys, everything works well, performance is absolutely unreal for the pricepoint (paid 900 something CAD when it came out).

</comment><comment><USER34> Looks great. Hope they have a Ryzen 4000 model soon.

They say their US keyboard is ISO (tall Enter), not ANSI (wide Enter). Hopefully that's just a typo. Emailed them to ask.

[https://support.getfreewrite.com/article/44-freewrites- physi...](https://support.getfreewrite.com/article/44-freewrites-physical- keyboard-layouts-ansi-vs-iso)

<comment><USER44> It is probably not a typo, they are aware of the difference. Just read their support page. [0]

> Unless otherwise stated, TUXEDO always uses ISO standard keyboards. Other > standards, such as ANSI, are available depending on the model, but are also > marked as such.

Browsing from the EU, I am not seeing an ANSI option on the linked 15" or either of the 14" models. It seems they're not capitalising on the enthusiast developer segment.

[0] [https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/en/Infos/Help- Support/Freque...](https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/en/Infos/Help- Support/Frequently-asked-questions/Keyboards-Layouts_1.tuxedo)

<comment><USER34> Darn. Yeah, they confirmed the "US" layout is ISO.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER45> Hmm, seems a bit steep, price-wise. I am writing this on a cheap ($500ish USD) Asus VivoBook w/ a Ryzen 7 3700U and Vega 10 gfx, it runs Ubuntu 20.04 without any problems. The display is a bit dim, and it really ought to do usb-c pd, but it was a bargain, so I can't complain too much.

</comment><comment><USER46> Hard to justify spending €860 on a no-name brand when I can buy a Dell Inspiron 15 3000 with the same spec for €550.

Ok, it comes with Windows 10 and it doesn't have a backlit keyboard but neither of those things are deal breakers if I'm saving €300.

</comment><comment><USER47> Can anyone describe how a magnesium chassis compares to an aluminum chassis?

</comment><comment><USER48> I just wish laptop designers would stop copying Macbook form factor.

<comment><USER49> I'm with you. I don't want a knockoff macbook, I want a modernized T420 thinkpad with a huge battery and a good keyboard.

</comment></comment><comment><USER50> Id need a sim card slot implemented in order to consider thinking about buying this laptop. I'm a Thinkpad user and my last and my current laptop are equipped with one and it's such a convenience to have connectivity on demand without sacrificing the phone's battery.

In order to actually buy this laptop, I'd really need it to have the trackpoint. Implemented not like HP does it sometimes, or Dell, but like Lenovo does it. The response and overall feel of the trackpad is the best among the options I have tried so far.

Other present specs are more than fine.

</comment><comment><USER51> no trackpoint available :-(

<comment><USER52> Feel you mate

</comment></comment><comment><USER53> Single channel RAM? What's this nonsense

</comment><comment><USER54> Comes with an Intel wifi card if I'm not mistaken. Maybe update the title?

<comment><USER55> It's optional.

</comment></comment><comment><USER56> I have to take up the cudgels on behalf of Tuxedo.

Tuxedo is a small company, not far from Munich, Germany. They have specialized on assembling customized laptops that are guaranteed to work nicely with Linux. They are owned by Schenker. You can think of them as the Linux department of Schenker.

I bought a Tuxedo XUX707 almost 4 years ago, which they built to my ridicolous specs: a desktop (!sic) i7-7700, GTX 1060, 32 GB RAM, 2x 2TB SSHD, 17" 4K monitor, 1x HDMI, 2x DP. I need a computer that has the performance of a desktop PC, but that I can take along once in a while if I have to. The cooling of the Tuxedo is superb, the screen is fantastic, sound is good, keyboard is ok, touchpad not so much. This "laptop" is bulky and heavy and makes only 3 hours on the battery and of course it is like this, because the cooling needs space - the CPU alone consumes up to 65 Watts. Who else would build you such an unreasonable device, Linux-ready, with a 4 year warranty (extra option)? I love this beast more than any computer I had before and the price is unbelievably cheap compared to a Dell or Lenovo or a MacBook with similar specs.

I run a second 4K monitor connected to one of the 3 video outlets and have currently 16 USB devices connected. I later added a M.2-SSD-drive (there is space for one more).

After two years I dropped the computer and the body cracked - not bad, the computer continued to run nicely.

After three years the GPU developed issues - random black screen on boot, which disappeared after a couple of restarts. It took me some while to diagnose the problem and make sure that the NVIDIA card was the culprit. I contacted Tuxedo support. They answered within 24 hours, had me run a system report script (which I could inspect before), and sent me the stickers for free mailing of the device to their headquarter. I asked, if I could send the device without HDs and SSDs and they were happy with this and told me, that they make the tests with prepared SSDs of their own. The device was checked, they confirmed a damaged GPU and decided to replace it as guarantee item without costs. I asked them, if they would replace the cracked body parts in the process and that I would pay for this. They agreed. All communications was per email and with fast response times. Just a summary: they agreed to process my device with no storage devices, made no trouble because of the cracked body and quickly deciced to replace a GPU that had random issues. Try this with Apple!

It got even better: when the device came back, I put in my storage devices and everything was working perfectly.

The body was completely replaced (two parts) for 60,- Euro. No assembly costs.

They noticed a Kensington adapter in the housing that I had forgotten about, removed it from the broken part and returned it in a separate bag.

I had no idea that the M.2-slot could be connected to a dedicated heat pipe so I never installed a heatpad for it. They found, though - although I had removed all storage devices - from my system report, that I used to have a M.2 device built in (which was not part of the original computer) and put the missing heatpad in place.

Finally, obviously because of all the nerdy stickers on my cover, they included a bag with more nerdy stickers and some Linux magazines.

The service procedure was not fast: they check the problem at Tuxedos Headquarter in Augsburg, then send it to Schenker in Leipzig for the replacement and assembly, send it back to Augsburg for final quality control before they deliver the device back to the customer. For me this is not a big problem: if the computer is away for more than 24 hours, I have to switch to a backup computer anyway (in this case a Lenovo W520). Tuxedo does not have the size and logistics for super fast service. But the quality of the service, in my experience, was stunning.

</comment><comment><USER57> I hate myself for saying this, but guys, just get someone to fix up the English around the website. It can't be that difficult. Looks like a great product, aimed at a specific niche, I think details matter

<comment><USER58> It's a small shop in a mid-sized town in southern German - just give them some slack...

<comment><USER57> I mean, I could rewrite the whole website in a couple of hours at most... I buy from AliExpress and it always baffles me why most listings are so poorly written. I've even offered to rewrite them properly but got no replies :D

Sales copy matters when someone views your website, it can increase conversion by a noticeable margin. And it's easy to fix, just get some American or British writer, maybe give them a discount on a new machine, I dunno :)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER59> >ATTENTION: To use our store you have to activate JavaScript and deactivate script blockers! Thank you for your understanding! <

too bad i thought it would be a good place but not from this angle

</comment><comment><USER60> 2020 might be The Year of the linux desktop

<comment><USER35> The year of the Linux Desktop will be when Microsoft offers transparent support for it with WSL.

</comment></comment><comment><USER61> Getting a 500... anyone have a mirror?

</comment><comment><USER35> I stopped buying Linux only computers after buying a System76. I'll never make that mistake again.

</comment><comment><USER37> Wow, from the EU (no hassle with expensive shipping, either initially or for warranty) and 830 euros for a laptop that would usually cost me ~1000 because manufacturers usually force Microsoft tax, a GPU, and a new SSD on you (I don't want a dedicated GPU but they always have one when the CPU is reasonable; and I don't want an SSD because I already have my own). This is pretty neat indeed!

The only nitpicks are:

\- a keyboard with a short left shift which doesn't work as well for my hands (I worked with it every day for 6 months while writing PHP, i.e. constant stretching to get to the $ symbol, but couldn't get used to it) and no numpad despite being a 15" laptop, and

\- the battery can't be taken out. My current laptop (2 years old) has the same issue and it already lost 25% capacity because I use it as a desktop much of the time and it's charged at 100% capacity all day long. With my 2012 laptop I'd just pop out the battery at ~40-70% charge: it takes 4 seconds (I didn't need to look or turn it over) and after 5 years of use the battery reported having lost 3% capacity. I don't trust that number, that's too good to be true with 2012 battery tech, but the runtime from 100%-0% was still about half of what it was originally (and I used the battery daily, either for standby mode between classes or on the train where I would, of course, have a deeper discharge cycle than when near a power source).

But compare that to all the plus points that I see that many other reasonably- priced (<1200 euro) laptops don't always have:

\+ No new SSD, a GPU, or Microsoft tax forced on you (as mentioned)

\+ WiFi 6

\+ reasonably-priced 16 or 32GB RAM option

\+ RJ45 connector without needing an adapter

\+ No Intel

\+ Big battery

\+ The up/down arrow keys are not shoved into a single (split) key! I don't know who ever thought that was a good idea

\+ Pgup/dn/home/end are nicely reachable. Though I noticed it's actually not a big deal to have them under Fn+arrow keys, I remember how much I got used to my Asus EEE 1215n having this layout. While using that laptop, I'd miss the layout even on a desktop keyboard where the keys are further away.

~ Screen brightness is specified (most of the time, you just have to hope that the screen is readable in sunlight, though I used to work outside more when I had a public transport route with switches so it's not very relevant for me now)

~ USB-C capabilities mentioned, even if both displayport and power delivery modes are a "no" it's good to know

~ earphones and microphone jack in one. Nice sometimes; super annoying when you want a separate mic or some other device that uses the mic jack. I should just find a splitter for that I guess, no getting around that anymore.

All in all, this is a steal and I'm considering getting one just to be rid of my crappy Lenovo Ideapad (maybe I'll donate it to one of these organisations that provide kids with laptops for corona-related homeschooling), but I don't technically need it...

<comment><USER62> > \+ Screen brightness is specified (most of the time, you just have to hope > that the screen is readable in sunlight, though I used to work outside more > when I had a public transport route with switches so it's not very relevant > for me now)

Luminance: 321 cd/m² (aka 321 nits)

That isn't bright enough for working outside. Macbooks are 500nits, iPads are 600nits. I'd pay extra for an option that went to 1000nits (HP elitebook dragonfly / MSI are offering this).

<comment><USER37> Good point, I should change that to a ~ instead of a + because it's good that they mention it even if the value is not what one might hope.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER63> For $100 more you could get a laptop with a solid gpu and dual boot it.</comment>


Resisting Trump: How to survive the coming surveillance state - <AUTHOR> https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg23331092-700-whats-the-worst-that-could-happen/ <comment><USER2> "Coming"?

<comment><USER3> Now the people who I don't agree with will have my data!!!

It's not like people have argued the potential for a change in government as one of the reasons mass surveilance is bad, even if you happen to trust the current government, since forever.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> So what else is new? It has been coming since 2001. Get over it.</comment>


Show HN: My Newest Design: ZigZagLab - <AUTHOR> http://zigzaglab.com I just finished working on my latest work, zigzaglab.com.<p>It's fluid-responsive and retina-ready. Everything has been achieved using only CSS3 (except for typekit and google map loaders). <comment><USER2> The first thing I read on the page made it sound generic. "WE MAKE COOL STUFF FOR WEB AND SMARTPHONES." - who doesn't?

<comment><AUTHOR> true.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> Definitely looks good, congrats. (a bit puzzled to see this #1 though)

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks. Well yeah me too.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> All I get is:

INTERNET EXPLORER? SERIOUSLY? Please come back with a modern browser.

ummm.... No. (could you be any more condescending or hipster or alienating?)

<comment><USER5> I like this. It has nothing to do with hipstery. If you don't want clientele with IE, this is perfectly acceptable.

<comment><AUTHOR> since IE 8 doesn't understand ANYTHING, I had to do this. The whole website is made using CSS3.

<comment><USER4> Fine. But why sound like such a dick? How about "We're really sorry but this website only works with...." ? or whatever. With that kind of attitude, I can absolutely promise you I am NOT going to copy-paste this url into chrome or FF.

Am just trying to help. If you think that language is fine, go with it.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks. We'll reconsider the copy writing.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Most people here seem to miss the fact that these guys are operating from Tehran, instead chose to complain about lack of IE support, transition or generic headline. Fuck you, fuck IE. I particularly like the fuck IE stance. You have every right to do so on your site.

Good work guys, keep it up.

</comment><comment><USER6> I like the design, and good luck with your company! I couldn't help but notice the arabic on the page, so I Was wondering if you have seen the programming language قلب already. I love how you can stretch the arabic letters to do code formatting (makes me jealous that our alphabet is so limited when it comes to caligraphy/formatting).

Seriously, arabic rocks for programming: * same reading direction as numerals (Heck, numerals ARE arabic) * code alignment by extending words (WOAH) * DUDE, IT'S ARABIC

So yes. I'm now gonna learn arabic just for programming. -hipster glasses-

قلب - <http://qlblang.org/>

P.S. : I couldn't help but notice that the designer of قلب pronounces قلب as alb. Whilst I'd expect it to be pronounced "qalb". Is this some dialect?

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks :) But we are Iranian and we speak Farsi (Persian). Farsi alphabet is similar to Arabic but they are not the same. This "Alb" thing is a interesting language though.

</comment></comment><comment> johnx123-up OT: What upvoters like in this post? Or am I missing anything in my Chrome?

</comment><comment><USER7> I really, really like the logo. Most companies today don't go through the effort of coming up with a good one (or with one at all), but yours does it's job very well. But yeah, the fade effect ought to go; Would be nice if it only happens the first time you go to the page (ie. when a session is initiated or the visitor comes from a referrer like google).

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks :) My good friend, Arash Asghari designed this logo. and yes, I'll fix the fading thing.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> Looks good. One note: a tiny English glitch that stood out to me was that you say to contact you "in" Twitter and Facebook. Generally people say "on". If anyone knows why that's the convention, I'm interested.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks, corrected.

<comment><USER9> I think your site is great (I really like minimal designs). I have found another tiny typo under /contact, in the h5-tag: "to open up you email client" should be "to open up your email client".

<comment><AUTHOR> Corrected. Thanks

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> I like the typography. The fade effect needs to go. The color scheme on the maps page, while neat, doesn't make much sense to me in the context of the rest of the site.

<comment><USER11> +1 to fade effect out. It looks nice the first time, then it tires you like an old bull.

<comment><AUTHOR> What if it just occurs on home page for the first time?

<comment><USER10> What's it for? If you can think of a reason to have it, then you should keep it.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> Looks great, congratulations! It would be even better if you had an attention- grabbing picture on your index page, instead of just black text on a gray background.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thank you :) Well I have that huge Cinema Display with a picture in it. But you need to scroll a little.

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> Great effort! Not meaning to hijack your Show HN submission, I would be very interested to read about your back story of doing a startup in Iran.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thank you:) Many people are doing startups in Iran, and it's not a new thing. Iran is a developing country but there is a good market for technology-related startups inside the country. Unfortunately, there aren't many investors so we have to invest our own.

<comment><USER13> Thanks for your quick insight. I would be interested in reading about cultural barriers to having a startup in Iran. From your launch, it looks like the technological barriers are being tackled successfully, and I think the capital barriers are yet to be tackled.

<comment><AUTHOR> We'll be writing more on this subject in our blog. <http://zigzaglab.com/blog>

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> It looks nice. How are you dealing with US companies (if at all)? I think that's interesting considering the embargo.

</comment><comment><USER15> Works okay on IE10. Don't like the design though; just looks like yet another generic hipster Web design firm.

</comment><comment><USER16> Yeah, another nice work from Tehran :)

<comment><AUTHOR> <3 Tehran

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> it's very stylish, clean and minimal.i look forward to see your new works.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks!

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> perfect responsive and minimal design . congratulation dear sallar .

<comment><AUTHOR> Thank you:)

</comment></comment><comment><USER19> Crashed my machine for about 30 seconds. Pressed back as soon as it came back.

<comment><AUTHOR> That shouldn't happen. There's no javascript. Pure CSS.</comment></comment>


Introducing Analytics – Visualize and Inspect API Performances in Real-Time - <AUTHOR> http://blog.mashape.com/introducing-analytics-visualize-inspect-apis-performances-real-time/

<comment><AUTHOR> This is the official announcement of the Analytics [1] offering by Mashape, decoupled from the marketplace with a SaaS pricing scheme. It's been work in progress for a while and I know everyone in the team is super pumped to finally opening it up to the whole world

[1] [https://www.apianalytics.com/](https://www.apianalytics.com/)

</comment><comment><USER2> It looks very interesting although there are different vendor options. Does it work with any API? I'm going to test it on our own API this week and will give you some feedback.

<comment><USER3> works with any HTTP API. for feedback email@example.com</comment></comment>


Ask HN: What computer skills should you learn first? - <AUTHOR>

I know how to roughly use a computer and fix most technical issues thanks to Google. But I don't know much more than that (no programming or hardware experience for instance) and I don't know where to start.
What should be the first things to learn when trying to become more computer literate after mastering the basics?
Regards <comment><USER2> I'd suggest two things:

* Learn Python -- try making some small tools in it.

* Learn how to use Linux -- you can start with Kubuntu and familiarize yourself with terminal and the other things you'll encounter here.

But really -- if you want to be more "computer literate", just focus on programming. Writing small tools; and maybe even taking on a big project like building a 2D game (if that's what you want)...

<comment><USER3> If you want to learn to code, you might find it worthwhile to think up a real- life computing task you could use a program to automate, then write, say, a Firefox extension, a Python script, or a contribution to an existing codebase. This has the advantage over game programming in that:

* You can avoid all the interface baggage that comes with game programming. (unless, of course, this is what you're aiming to learn)

* You will be solving a real problem, instead of creating a fake one for people to solve.

For example, this project was how I first got my feet wet with python: [http://www.nerdhow.com/uzblsms-a-way-to-browse-the-web- via-t...](http://www.nerdhow.com/uzblsms-a-way-to-browse-the-web-via-text- message/)

I guess my point is that I learned (and am learning) how to program by treating code as means to an end, rather than learning to program just for the sake of programming.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Read "Code" by Petzold.

As far as practical computer skills, study any book on A+ certification (maybe even get that cert), then learn Linux/Python

</comment><comment><USER5> To print the contents of a file onscreen.... If you want to do it in 1 line of code: bash If you want to do it in 5: Python If you want to do it in 30: C

</comment><comment><USER6> How to use a terminal

</comment><comment><USER7> check out some courses on - codecademy.com, codeschool.com, and teamtreehouse.com/,

<comment><USER8> or else [https://www.coursera.org/](https://www.coursera.org/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> How to Google search.</comment>


Snorkel AI: Putting Data First in ML Development - <AUTHOR> https://www.snorkel.ai/07-14-2020-snorkel-ai-launch.html <comment><USER2> This makes it sound like the core team has abandoned the open source Snorkel project to work exclusively on closed source Snorkel Flow. Is that correct?</comment>


Adding Game Mechanics To Daily Deals - <AUTHOR> http://www.unreadyandwilling.com/2011/08/startup-idea-adding-game-mechanics-to-daily-deals/

<comment><USER2> People from my university had just recently created a startup with similar mechanics, based in Poland -- it has English interface too, though no support for other currencies yet.

<http://clicxs.com/how-does-it-work/>

Basically, you pay a small amount of money to uncover a price of a given item, decreasing it as a byproduct. For instance, if a price is 50 PLN, uncovering a price (which costs 2.50 PLN) decreases it by 1 PLN. The more people uncover the price, the cheaper it gets, until someone actually buys it.

1 PLN is about 0.35 USD, by the way.

<comment><AUTHOR> That's pretty cool, kind of like a reverse auction. Only one person gets to buy the item though?

<comment><USER2> Yes, uncovering only decreases price of a specific item, so if it's sold, the price is back up.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> I like the idea of adding game mechanics to daily deals, but I'm not really sold on the idea of doing it for travel. Seems like it would be best if it were applied to products that can be sold in more locations. Travel would need to be city specific and it requires a major commitment.

<comment><AUTHOR> Yeah, it might work if you only started in one city, just to test the product though.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> It's the online gambling part that's the hugest hurdle. After that it's the business deals. And you're conceding you're gonna do it in a narrow niche.

Add those three together, and you got a business model that's not worth doing. "Cool" idea but not worth it.

<comment><AUTHOR> A lot of game companies get around this hurdle with virtual currency, although this might get a little over-complicated for your average deals site user. You're probably right though.</comment></comment>