Ask HN: What's the best movie recommendation system? - <AUTHOR>

I was getting tired of searching imdb top lists and checking review sites for movie titles.I wanted something with a good intuitive recommendation system .
The first site I came upon was http://www.icheckmovies.com/ I checked about 300 movies + likes and dislikes and got 2 recommendations I was dissatisfied with.Deleted the account.
Right now I'm rating movies on movielens. What are you using ? Any recommendations ? Thank You. <comment><USER2> I find IMDB's "People who liked this also liked..." recommendation feature to work fairly well. You can hop from movie to movie until you find one that looks interesting.

<http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0113277/>

It's not a personalization system, but it probably works better than most of those in my experience.

</comment><comment><USER3> I've rated movies at Amazon, Netflix, Hulu and YouTube. It's a shame I cannot transfer that info into other sites.

<comment><USER4> Yes, movie rating/behavior personal data portability should be common. Just need a data structure and a protocol...

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> Haven't seen anything better than Movielens (rated 1020 movies).

<comment><USER6> <http://movielens.umn.edu/login>

Looks like I can't get into my account... Probably last used it 5 years ago...

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> <http://www.majorapps.com/movies.html>

</comment><comment><USER8> Also have a look at Goodfilms - <http://goodfil.ms>

</comment><comment><USER9> <http://reddit.com/r/netflix/>

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> Thank you for all the suggestions.I guess I'll keep using movielens and imdb.

</comment><comment><USER10> jinni.com . not for it's movie recommendations but for it's movie search which i find amazing.

</comment><comment><USER11> foundd.com just discoverd this</comment>


Gmail Goes Down. Crash? - <AUTHOR> http://www.cnn.com/2009/TECH/09/24/gmail.crash/index.html

<comment> onreact-com Last time I said that GMail is unreliable and thus you should not use it for crucial communications I was downvoted by at least a 12 people. I wonder if those people believe it when CNN tells you it's repeatedly broken.

Unless of course many HN readers work at Google ;-)</comment>


Show HN: A collaborative platform for computational math - <AUTHOR> http://arithmetica.network <comment><AUTHOR> Here are some additional links:

To participate in the Collatz Conjecture: [http://arithmetica.network/contribute#Collatz%20Conjecture](http://arithmetica.network/contribute#Collatz%20Conjecture)

To define a new problem for others to work on: [http://arithmetica.network/contribute](http://arithmetica.network/contribute)

These links point to the version of Arithmetica that was submitted to ETHDenver. Since then , we have been working on refactoring and coming up with a scalable solution for saving state.

The project is open source and anyone is welcome to contribute, or fork. We welcome any questions/feedback.

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> One more thing, this is not an ICO. There is no token sale, no profit motive, we just want to democratize results from computation math and showcase what is possible with Ethereum/IPFS.

<comment><USER2> My kind of project.</comment></comment>


Google Self-Driving Car Will Be Ready Soon for Some, in Decades for Others - <AUTHOR> http://spectrum.ieee.org/cars-that-think/transportation/self-driving/google-selfdriving-car-will-be-ready-soon-for-some-in-decades-for-others <comment><USER2> I assume self-driving cars will evolve features at a moderate pace. Many cars are already adding some form of self-driving features. There will not be a specific day it has arrived.</comment>


YCFix: Greasemonkey script to remove upmodded YC News links - <AUTHOR> http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/8242 <comment><USER2> If you do this aren't you missing out on all of the discussions about those stories? That's mostly the point here and at Reddit.</comment>


Ask HN: How to decorate my work office? - <AUTHOR> I just started a new job and with the job I just moved into my first personal office.
The office is pictured here: http://t.co/L5Zs6Pu and http://t.co/aWzVZ2l
I've alway's either worked in an open shared environment or remotely from home. I've searched around and haven't found many resources for office decorating. They exist but most of the thing's I have found seem one step higher than spam blog's, or top ten list's for driving traffic to office supply stores.
My only idea so far is maybe a decent record player and a little vinyl collection for office listening. I also have contemplated ordering some wall decals from http://www.whatisblik.com/
Ideally I would like it to be a comfortable, cosy place where I can concentrate and be productive. It would also be nice if I could personalize it some way, so it feels more like my place to work. I don't want it to be just a random square where I will probably spend a good portion of my life over  (atleast) the next few years.
So HN, if you have any idea's for how I could spruce up my space and make it feel more homey that would be amazing. I would also enjoy and encourage you to share pictures of your offices ( or  work spaces ) if you have them, for inspiration of course.
Lighting, Art, Chairs, Foot Rests, Toys, Plants, what suggestions do you have?
Thanks! <comment><USER2> Get a floor torchiere lamp along with a full spectrum bulb, and use it to have indirect lighting off of the ceiling. In addition to your viewing comfort, the whole place will instantly look better, a lot more cozy.

I've found the dedicated fluorescent torchiere lamps (even the "expensive" ones from GE), have a crappy lifespan.[1] I'd recommend getting a much cheaper one that accepts a standard bulb socket, and then using a compact fluorescent bulb rather than an incandescent.

Also, make sure your building maintenance won't have a hissy fit about it. They have reasons, e.g. ensuring there are no code violations nor fire risks. In my experience, if you have a standard/boxed product and ask nicely first, it's no problem. Or, depending on the place and attitudes, just put it up and never ask at all.

[1] It's not primarily a matter of the bulb, but rather the ballast that's built into the lamp. I have an old lamp that's still going strong, but all the newer ones I've purchased have had the ballast fail within some months.

<comment><USER2> As I recall now, I once had concern from maintenance that I'd brought in one of the fire-prone halogen torchiere lamps (tip it and "watch the fun"). Once I showed them that it was a 15 watt compact fluorescent, it was no problem.

(Hmm, though I suppose that, these days, someone might worry about the mercury. Proper clean up of a broken bulb is supposedly quite expensive.)

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> Plants are fantastic, by the way. They make the room feel much more natural and alive, and less institutional and synthetic.

My favourite plant is Pachira Aquatica. It's more commonly known as the Money Tree. They're hearty, improve oxygen levels, inexpensive, look great, and are low-maintenance.

I have three small ones like this:

<http://www.freshtopiary.com/mas_assets/full/DT-1024MT.jpg>

and one huge one that's about 5 feet tall:

<http://twitpic.com/3tbacn>

I found the huge one at Ikea for $40.

</comment><comment><USER4> Invest in a bookcase. It doesn't need to be flash or expensive, just functional. Compartmentalise it. Have sections for reference books, tutorial books, general interest books, fiction, etc. Buy yourself a comfortable chair or beanbag and treat yourself to a bit of cerebral excercise/pleasure now and again away from the glare of your screen.

<comment><USER5> Do you have a particular chair you recommend? I've been looking for a lounge chair for exactly this purpose. Something comfortable, attractive, well-built, and under $1200.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> Some ideas :

\- Herman Miller Aeron chair - pick up a used one from ebay, still pricey but very comfortable

\- chalk wall or large whiteboard, I prefer chalk but it is messy

\- comfy little couch if you can, just to have a break from the main chair, ikea do a cheap little one

\- skateboard decks make a nice wall decoration

I have an office design blog with loads of other ideas, wont post the link here but it is in my profile.

<comment><USER7> >skateboard decks make a nice wall decoration

A buddy of mine just hung a bunch of wall shelves made of skate decks.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> I like minimalism. If there's a lot of stuff in the room, it can become quite distracting.

@blazzar's suggestion of a small couch is spot on. You'll probably feel like moving around. When I'm working at home, I stand at my desk, sit at my desk, move to the couch, or sit on my balcony. It feels good to change location.</comment>


Now You Can 3-D Print Your Own Copy of NYC's Illegal Snowden Bust - <AUTHOR> http://www.wired.com/2015/05/now-can-3-d-print-copy-nycs-illegal-snowden-bust/

<comment><AUTHOR> File:

[http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:815042](http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:815042)</comment>


I can't see computer displays reaching 200 DPI in "a few years". - <AUTHOR> http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2007/06/where-are-the-high-resolution-displays.html

<comment><USER2> Please add [2007] to the title.

<comment><AUTHOR> You're right. But I can't edit it now, too much time has passed.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> For reference, the iphone4 has a 264 dpi display so we have come a long ways in the last few years since this article.

<comment><USER2> GSM Arena [1] shows it as 330 dpi, calculation seems to confirm it:

x:= 640 / 330 => 1,(93)

y:= 960 / 330 => 2,(90)

sqrt(x^2 + y^2) => 3,496 inches

1\. <http://www.gsmarena.com/apple_iphone_4-3275.php>

<comment><USER3> Good point, thanks for adding this.</comment></comment></comment>


Mathematics for Computer Science: Readings - <AUTHOR> https://ocw.mit.edu/courses/electrical-engineering-and-computer-science/6-042j-mathematics-for-computer-science-spring-2015/readings/ <comment><USER2> Avi Wigderson's forthcoming book is pretty great if this sort of thing interests you: [https://www.math.ias.edu/files/mathandcomp.pdf#page=1](https://www.math.ias.edu/files/mathandcomp.pdf#page=1)

<comment><USER3> It looks even better than the MIT course itself. I hadn't heard of Wigderson before, but now I'm definitely going to keep an eye on his work. Thank you for sharing this.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Question: why isn't linear algebra in here? I know this is a type of "but this isn't in my favorite list" question but since a lot of universities include it in their CS curriculum, I wonder why it isn't in here.

Or did I oversee it? Is in there?

<comment><USER5> There are a few reasons.

First, the purpose of a class like this is to prepare students for further coursework in algorithms and automata/complexity. You need logic, graphs and combinatorics for those a lot more than you need linear algebra.

Second, the math department teaches a class in linear algebra. This is a collection of topics that you wouldn't ordinarily find in undergraduate math classes.

Third, there's a limit on how much linear algebra you can cover in part of a course like this. Better to give it its own semester so you can treat the subject in some reasonable breadth.

<comment><USER6> i agree with you that this is in principle math for CS proper (rather than machine learning or numerical algos or something) but

>Second, the math department teaches a class in linear algebra. This is a collection of topics that you wouldn't ordinarily find in undergraduate math classes.

x math department doesn't have classes on graph theory, combinatorics, or prob & stats?

<comment><USER7> You would not typically find _dedicated_ undergraduate courses for graph theory, probability theory or combinatorics, no. At the very least you wouldn't expect to see those until you hit 300 level, but most likely not until graduate courses.

Discrete mathematics is a grab bag of topics, and it's more fair to say that a discrete math course pulls in selected topics from other areas than to say it provides a focused coverage of any of them. At the depth each topic is taught, you couldn't pull it out into its own semester's worth of lectures. On the other hand, it would be very difficult to compact linear algebra into a discrete math course. Learning linear algebra already requires you to introduce a bunch of new concepts, like fields and vector spaces, linear equations, linear transformations, matrix representation and matrix operations, determinants, inner products...

Equally importantly, linear algebra doesn't really "fit" with the topics of discrete mathematics, pedagogically speaking. It fits well with a treatment of multivariable calculus, but that's only a small part of what's taught in discrete math courses. If you wanted to teach linear algebra in a course covering a bunch of topics, you'd probably want to do a "topics in abstract algebra" course that works through groups, rings, modules, linear algebra and multilinear algebra. But then you're going well beyond what a non-math major should encounter in an undergraduate setting.

Really, linear algebra stands on its own very well. In my opinion it should receive focused coverage and not be mixed with anything else. While graph theory and combinatorics can easily receive the same coverage, their treatment is usually pushed back to advanced undergraduate or graduate level courses because engineers don't usually work with them beyond what's covered in discrete math (which is exactly why we have discrete math as a standalone course). In fact, MIT actually lists linear algebra and multivariable calculus as _prerequisites_ for the focused courses on combinatorics. The same applies for probability theory: you can't really learn probability theory (beyond discrete) without first learning analysis.

<comment><USER8> Strange, I have taken a 4 credit, one quarter class in both probability theory and combinatorics in my undergraduate math and computer science education.

<comment><USER9> It is certainly possible to offer a complete class in combinatorics or probability theory at the undergrad level. The point is that such a course would cover far more than what a discrete math class would cover in those subjects.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Related course (w video lectures): [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9311752](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9311752)

</comment><comment><USER11> Is this book suitable for math self-learning?

<comment><USER7> I took a look at the first four or so chapters and I'm not really a fan of the organization. But I think you could self-study the material and be fine. The introduction of the book explains that it's very focused on proofs, and it feels to me like it's more of an applied mathematics book than it is discrete mathematics (i.e. computer science) book. That's a subtle distinction, but I'd summarize it by saying this book feels as if it was written more for math majors than computer science majors. That doesn't mean you shouldn't read it; rigor and formalization are important! It just means that (as I interpret it), the authors are focusing more heavily on mathematical formalization and foundations than most "discrete mathematics" treatments.

For the context of my opinion: my favorite math textbook for computer science is Chapter 1, Section 1.2 of _The Art of Computer Programming_ ("Mathematical Preliminaries"). That's pretty dense though, so I usually recommend _Concrete Mathematics_ , which was also (co)authored by Knuth. The benefit of _Concrete Mathematics_ is that it spreads the information out with more examples and better exposition. It also includes an expanded section on probability. But in my opinion, the failing (if you could call it that) of both is that there isn't a dedicated section on set theory. I really think that should be covered alongside the introduction to various types of proof.

Which brings me back to this textbook...I personally think it spends too much time building logic and proof machinery in the first chapter. Sets and functions have sections that are only pages long, but there is a large focus on logic. I understand it's a mathematics for computer science treatment and not a pure mathematics treatment, but that's actually pretty dry in my opinion - I think a treatment that focuses more on sets is more intuitive. One of the things I like about Knuth is that he covers these topics in a slightly irreverent and humorous way. He also engages the reader by jumping more directly into arithmetic operations, functions, basic number theory, the binomial theorem and combinatorics, etc.

Some of this is admittedly my own bias. I've _never_ enjoyed staring at things like e.g. truth tables. It's important to know, but this actually seems excessively formal for a discrete mathematics course. Reading through the algebra of propositions isn't exactly riveting. I think that, for self-study at least, exposition and organization of topics is just as important (probably more so) than complete coverage of topics. All of the material you'd want to know _is there_ , it's just that the treatment might be a bit suboptimal for self-study. It probably depends on what you find interesting and how quickly you'd like to do interesting things with what you're learning. It would probably also be beneficial if some people who have actually learned from this textbook for their first encounter with the material could chime in, because that might be more relevant to your question.

<comment><USER12> I'm guessing you have a very strong math background if you are suggesting Concrete Math to a random person asking about self-teaching.

Concrete math requires MUCH more background than this book. Besides the real gems and clever tricks Mathematics for Computer Science appear after the fourth chapter.

<comment><USER7> Really? What background do you think _Concrete Mathematics_ needs?

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> How has this book helped you as a programmer? I am finding it difficult going through it.

<comment><USER14> I'm currently taking a near-identical course as a CS freshman, and while I lack the programming expertise to adequately explain the importance in that field, it's definitely valuable to learn. I've never enjoyed a maths class more, really.

It offers so many 'hacks' to working with numbers, which I could imagine would make code more efficient and avoid unnecessary computations when dealing with very large numbers.

Separately, my increased mental efficiency with problems involving numbers is really surprising. There have been interview questions I've read about in the past where I've thought "someone must be a genius to be able to answer that through mental math," and it all makes so much more sense now! It's taught me about dozens of visualizations that can break down these problems in much more manageable ways.

As an example of a mental maths problem on my midterm: How many numbers between 1 and 99,999 have digits that add up to 10? (23,500 would work whereas 23,510 would not). While initially I would have no clue how to answer this, learning about the balls-in-bins method solves it in an incredibly simple manner.

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> This is so good. The lectures broken up into shorter videos are great. Thank you for posting.

</comment><comment><USER16> Why so obsessed with proofs? How often a programmer needs to prove anything except PnL of a project?

<comment><USER17> Because it's not Mathematics for Programmers?

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> Do they every provide lecture videos or audio, assuming I didn't miss it browsing the pages?

</comment><comment><USER19> Latest edition of the book: [https://courses.csail.mit.edu/6.042/spring18/mcs.pdf](https://courses.csail.mit.edu/6.042/spring18/mcs.pdf)

<comment><USER20> I wonder how one would read 1000+ pages of a technical book like this.

<comment><USER21> Some famous runner who's name I can't remember and probably didn't exist anyway once said "I can't run 200 miles. But I can run 1 mile - 200 times".

Start from page 1 and iterate from there.

<comment><USER22> This analogy does not capture the problem that the human brain constantly forgets...

<comment><USER23> Sure it does. If you _really_ wanted to read and understand this book and dedicated time each day to understanding 3 pages worth of content, you could read the book in a year. Remembering 3 pages of content per day (especially in math where concepts build on each other) is really not hard.

<comment><USER7> _> Remembering 3 pages of content per day (especially in math where concepts build on each other) is really not hard._

I disagree. Or rather, I think that's unsustainable. Any given three consecutive pages from Spivak's _Calculus_ are probably doable on a daily basis. But is would be legitimately _hard_ for most people to go through three pages of Rudin's _Principles of Mathematical Analysis_ each day and consistently retain that information. Axler's _Linear Algebra Done Right_ is very readable, but Halmos' _Finite-Dimensional Vector Spaces_ will start getting just as dense as Rudin. These are difficult textbooks even when students are well-prepared for them with prerequisite courses. Terence Tao wrote two books to cover (with better exposition) what Rudin did in one. I think it would be pretty hard to read consistently three pages of Tao's _Analysis I_ each day, before he even gets to limits.

I think you're underestimating the intellectual effort here. In my opinion, even if you're reading a math book targeted to your level, committing to reading _and understanding_ three days of material each day would become exhausting. A typical semester is 15-16 weeks, with lectures 1 - 3 times a week, and most undergraduate courses do not actually work through the entirety of a 300 page textbook. Even at that slower pace it's not typical for most people to ace the course. If you read three pages a day and had a solid understanding of it, you'd be absolutely breezing through math courses.

In my experience students need to really step away from the material and let it percolate for a bit every so often in order to solidify their understanding. I really don't think you can partition the material into equal, bite-sized amounts each day. The learning progression doesn't tend to be that consistent or predictable.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Apple iPhone SE Available on Apple Store Again - <AUTHOR> https://www.apple.com/shop/refurbished/clearance <comment><USER2> I'm going to add to the dogpile here and add: I am really not sure how I can vote with my wallet more than I currently do.

I had a 5S; upgraded to a 6S and spent a year with it, but I really hated the size of the phone and realised that small phones were entirely gone by the end of my time with the 6S.

I tried Android for a while but it was Samsung's Android and was not for me, I was frustrated and annoyed after every interaction with my phone. After a year of that I went and got an iPhone SE. I'm still very happy with my choice. (Although my AirPods sometimes cut out and I think its due to the size of my Bluetooth antennae)

I buy a fair amount of Apple stuff, I'm on the highest iCloud storage tier, I have AirPods, Mac Pro's, MacBook Pro's etc; if they have /any/ customer profiling at all they must realise that I certainly have the means to "upgrade" but doggedly refuse to do so.

When I picked this phone up I bought apple care for as long as I could. I will attempt to extend Apple care on this phone (or buy a new SE if it's available) before support on this expires.

How else can I show my support to the small phone factor?

<comment><USER3> Selling a new small phone is a market problem for Apple.

The form factor inherently makes it less expensive to manufacture. Bigger screens cost more etc. Which creates a pricing problem for them.

If they price it like a small phone (i.e. lower price) they cannibalize sales of larger phones with higher total margins, and lose money. If they price it with the same total margin as the larger phones, it'd still be the lowest priced current generation phone in their lineup, but would then compare very poorly on price to similar spec Android phones, which makes their brand look overpriced (as opposed to premium).

About the only way it would make sense is to make it a premium product. Give it the fastest available processor etc. so it can justify a premium price despite the size. But that's a difficult engineering problem. A faster processor uses more power and generates more heat, but smaller phones have less room for a big battery and less surface area to dissipate heat. And finding a solution for that is extra hard because what it needs is an advantage relative to larger phones, but if you improve performance per watt or battery density in general then the same improvement can go into the larger phone too and you still have no relative advantage.

<comment><USER4> That's a dangerous strategy considering that an iPhone is the "window" to their ecosystem: App store, Apple Pay, the iOS UX experience, etc.

I know many people who love Apple's ecosystem but who won't pay through the nose for a "premium" phone that's way overpowered for their needs.

<comment><USER5> Then frankly they're not in the Apple target demographic. I know that sucks, but the iPhone is a gateway for customers who are willing to pay a premium for Apple products.

The real danger for Apple would be compromising with a budget model at the entry level. It would kill their value proposition on the whole rest of their line. The closest they get is previous-year models and refurbs.

<comment><USER4> I think they run a real risk of diminishing returns. To use a car analogy; first they were the BMW of phones, then the Ferrari and maybe soon the Bugatti.

Along the way consumers will start to tap out and leave Apple's ecosystem altogether.

Maybe that's already set in motion, people are keeping their phones for much longer so it will take a while for the effects to be noticeable.

<comment><USER6> O, definitely. Anecdote, but count me among these people. I had 4 or 5 iPhones, and 1 Android phone sometime in the middle (before my 6s). I am currently on the Xs, but if Apple keeps this pricing strategy I will not buy another iPhone again. Outside the US it is really hard to justify with the added tax and "export fee" on top. I just hope it will be ok for 3 years.

<comment><USER7> This is true. I bought the X in India but with assumption that I'll use it for at least 3 years. Maybe more. This doesn't sound hard to achieve given how long Apple continues to provide upgrades.

<comment><USER5> I'm still on a 6s and it's absolutely fine. I can't see myself upgrading in the foreseeable future, but when I do it will almost certainly be another iPhone. They've been really good to me and lasted many years as hand-me-downs, sometimes with a battery refurb just before they go out of support. The value proposition is just excellent.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> I 'downgraded' from an iPhone XS to an iPhone SE. I had misplaced my XS and got an SE temporarily. Best thing to have ever happened - the iPhone SE is the best iPhone apple has ever made.

So much so that I have an XS and the SE and cannot get back to the XS.

I know HN has some weird opinions sometimes that aren't representative of a majority. But I genuinely think if people used this or gave it a shot they wouldn't switch back.

<comment><USER9> As a Phone, a Communication Devices, and Social Network, I could may be want the iPhone SE had an Edge to Edge Design, but other than that I agree it is perfect.

As a Media Consumption devices, that is mostly video and Gaming. The iPhone SE size just doesn't work.

Sometimes I kept thinking if I just ditch gaming and I could have a smaller phone. Hopefully Apple will come up with a 5" Full Display SE size iPhone, and thinner too. They could have an extra $100 BOM budget for some insane battery tech.

<comment><USER10> >I could may be want the iPhone SE had an Edge to Edge Design

Why? So you can accidentally tap the screen every day with the edge of your fingers as you hold the device?

<comment><USER11> This would be an especially pronounced problem on a small form factor when your hand has so much more … edge … to accidentally touch.

It's why I don't quite understand the Galaxy Edge.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> The one thing that Apple does well is prolonged support for their phones. I switched away from Android phones because I got sick of buying the latest flagships only to have them lose software, hardware, and security support 12-24 months after release.

The new iPhones don't appeal to me, but I'm satisfied knowing I can get a few more years out of my SE. I got my battery replaced 4 months ago after owning it for two years and its been running like new since on the latest version of iOS.

<comment><USER13> I'm not so sure anymore - I have a 3.5 year old iPhone 6s, and replaced the battery with a brand new on from the Apple store not 6 months ago - already, the new battery is worse than the old one a year into the phones life. Random shut offs at 10% and not getting through a day are regular occurances, something that didn't happen at all the first 2 years

<comment><USER14> I'm having the same exact experience. I'm considering heading to the Apple store and asking for a fresh battery replacement.

I don't want to give up my headphone jack.

<comment><USER15> iPhone 6s Plus here - I don't want to give up the button, Touch ID, force touch, or the headphone jack.

Edit: added force touch

<comment><USER16> Force touch works on the latest iPhones, except for the XR

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> This was my favourite phone. Fast. Stable. Flat, easy-to-grip sides and a screen size designed to impress me, not Samsung executives. If they gave it new internals and electronic SIM capabilities, I'd pay $1,000 for it.

<comment><USER18> Why would you ever want eSIM support? The very existence of eSIM is completely antithetical to reason SIM cards were created in the first place. Without physical SIM cards, you're forced to grovel to your wireless provider to please provision your phone, and they can refuse to do so for any reason. With SIM cards, there's no limit to what devices you can use on what networks, outside of hardware ones.

I find it ridiculous that companies are positioning eSIM as "innovative" \-- we already had the exact same thing in the US back with CDMA, and it was awful. eSIM is no different.

<comment><USER19> My experience (with AT&T prepaid in the US) is that SIM cards are associated with IMEIs and don't work with a new IMEI without my phone company approving it. So it's not functionally different from CDMA. CDMA was fine; the overhead of swapping phones when I was on CDMA is comparable to the current overhead, and I don't recall anything else I missed from not having a physical SIM card.

<comment><USER20> Off the top of my head, I can't recall running into this anywhere I've been in the world (excluding the US) in the last few years. I carry a beater Android phone when I travel and I often swap it in for my iPhone in situations where I'm afraid I might lose or damage my phone (or it might get pickpocketed) and it's usually a seamless process with local prepaid SIMs.

<comment><USER2> This was regulated in the EU at some point. You're no longer allowed to sell locked down phones.

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unfair_Commercial_Practices_...](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unfair_Commercial_Practices_Directive_2005)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> It is probably the nicest phone ever in regards to size/screen/weight. I wish they would give it a hardware bump too to keep it competitive.

<comment><USER22> Agreed. Its form factor is insanely useful and comfortable. I hope we see a hardware update. Especially if they can get a thumbprint reader in the display.

<comment><AUTHOR> Like many other comments, if they give bezel-less display, in screen touch-id, I think a lot of people would buy it. Not really sure what stats they're getting saying that the SE isn't profitable, but I still use it to this day and think it's a tank of a phone.

<comment><USER23> Counterpoint: I do not want a bezel-less screen. Not only does it ruin the iPhone's iconic design, but it removes a "safe" area where you can rest your fingers without obscuring any content nor interacting with it.

I hate both my XS and X for this reason (along the lack of physical home button and Touch ID). There's just no "right" way to handle that phone like there is with the previous generations, every attempt at holding it is a compromise on which content you're obscuring on the screen.

<comment><AUTHOR> You're probably right. I've thought about that in the back of my mind, but just like how some people's hands rest on the 15" Macbook pro, I figured Apple would implement accidental touch software. And I've never extensively used a bezel-less phone (current still on the SE).

At the end of the day, if accidental touches can be taken care of, you'll get a phone that's more aesthetically pleasing and more screen real estate to do whatever.

<comment><USER23> I've used an iPhone X and XS. Touches on the bottom part of the screen (which replaces the home button) don't interfere with touches on the other parts of the screen (so you can keep your finger on there and still use the phone), however they aren't ignored per-se and will still trigger some events like bringing up the controls on the media player or something.

Not a dealbreaker but honestly I still prefer _true_ safe-zones where there's no way the phone can feel anything on there.

<comment><USER22> This could be addressed with software. I assume that's what's going on in sci- fi adaptations of "smart slates". They're clearly a powerful platform, but it's all for nothing without the right UI.

<comment><USER23> Honestly, unless software can read my mind to tell whether I intended the touch to be registered or not, I'd rather not have that.

No software solution is going to be 100% prefect and you'll end up with either degraded experiences (as an example, when you tap a link on iOS, there's a bit of latency - this is because it's waiting to see if it will be a double tap), or dangerous mistakes where it will still register touches that weren't intended.

As our phones contain more and more data and bear privileged access to a lot of systems (work, etc), an accidental touch can sometimes be disastrous. I have a friend for example that's a complete idiot with tech and never locks her phone despite holding it by the screen and pressing random stuff on it. Eventually she accidentally pressed the voice message button on WhatsApp and ended up sending a good 5 minutes of a very private conversation to a stranger.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> Much as I love the small phone (I had a 5S and an SE) ... the link is for the refurb store.

So this isn't anything about Apple restarting production of these - just that they've had some returned that they are now reselling. If you want one, it's probably the best way to get hold of one, but it's not a long-term, or even medium-term solution to the "no decent small phone available" problem.

<comment><USER25> 5S was the perfect size, if only it could run Linux.

<comment><USER26> What I like to use is:

      - Blink shell
      - hooked to a tmux session
      - connected with Mosh
      - over a ZeroTier network
      - to a UNIX machine in the cloud or at home (Linux, macOS, whatever).

The effect is a really snappy and powerful shell in a full UNIX system that stays up and connected even though your connection is dropped or moves from wifi to cellular, and your networks still stay closed and secure.

It's not the same as running Linux on the phone. However, in some respects it's _better_. It's trivially easy to move the session to another device (phone/tablet, or computer), and you don't need to use the phone's battery for processing. And you can summon a ton of computing power if you need to.

Blink shell, an iOS terminal emulator: [https://www.blink.sh](https://www.blink.sh)

tmux is like screen. It's a bit arcane at first but it's worth it. (Mouse scrollback is recommended. It works inside blink.) Introduction: [https://hackernoon.com/a-gentle-introduction-to- tmux-8d784c4...](https://hackernoon.com/a-gentle-introduction-to- tmux-8d784c404340)

mosh enhances ssh and adds roaming, supports intermittent connectivity, and cuts perceived lag a lot by being smarter about the interface vs. the network roundtrip. (It works kind of like a online game engine that predicts network events). [https://mosh.org](https://mosh.org)

ZeroTier is an open-source secure virtual network layer that's good at hole punching so you can just have the real network completely walled off: [https://www.zerotier.com/](https://www.zerotier.com/)

<comment><USER27> how the hell do people use a cli on a phone

<comment><USER26> Try it! It's worth having.

Plus: Bluetooth keyboards work, and you can connect to external displays with, say, an HDMI dongle or AirPlay.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER28> I've had an iPhone SE for about 2 years now and I dread the day that I will have to replace this phone. Is it possible to buy a couple more right now and just store them in a cool dry place for the next 5 - 10 years? Would the battery life, etc, still be good?

<comment><USER29> In 5-10 years your biggest problem would be no more OS updates and no security updates.

<comment><USER30> Or app developers not updating their apps for smaller phones. When the minority of people cause the majority of the work, app devs tend to ship even if it's broken. Firefox is a great example: many sites are working great in Safari / Chrome, but are broken / not as nice when viewed in Firefox. Again, Firefox is used by considerably less people.

<comment><USER31> It's not even that alone, it's app developers both dropping support for the old OS in new versions of their app, and then actively disabling old versions of their app.

This was what ultimately did in my last iPhone. I kept it well past when iOS upgrades ended, and over time apps stopped working. At first it was stuff that's pretty easy to let go of. My mobile provider's app was the first to go, but I could still do everything I wanted through their website. Eventually it starts to be stuff that's sort of the whole reason you own a smartphone instead of a dumb phone.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER32> I'd love for Apple to keep the SE up-to-date hardware wise. The only thing that I'd like more than that would be if Google brought back a new and improved G1. The HN crowd isn't the average consumer, and I know that's why what most of us really want isn't a reality, but... I appreciate reading the sentiment on here for the classics (those which have great function/style).

<comment><USER33> I got curious about how tiny the SE is (I never had an iPhone) so I compared it [1] to my beloved Lumia 620 (RIP power button) and my current Moto Z2 Play. And wow, I totally get the feeling.

For me it's not even about one-handed use, I can reach the opposite corner just fine with one hand, but the bulge in my jeans' pocket is really uncomfortable, the corner of the phone pinches my leg and you have to rearrange the brick inside the pocket quite often or it hurts when walking.

I'm _this_ close to replacing this huge thing.

[1]: [https://www.phonearena.com/phones/Apple- iPhone-7_id9815/size...](https://www.phonearena.com/phones/Apple- iPhone-7_id9815/size/Samsung-Galaxy-S10,Samsung-Galaxy-S10e,Motorola- Moto-Z2-Play,Apple-iPhone-XS,Sony-Xperia-XZ1-Compact,Motorola-Moto-E,Apple- iPhone-SE,Nokia- Lumia-620/phones/10959,11114,10508,10766,10650,8654,10001,7593)

</comment></comment><comment><USER34> I'd be happy with an SE and modern cameras updates. Don't need dual-lens or 3D face stuff but from generation to generation Apple makes great improvements to their camera hardware and software. It'd be a shame to be stuck with inferior optics for the sake of having a smaller phone size.

</comment><comment><USER35> Can someone provide context as to why this is newsworthy for those of us who don't follow Apple's every move?

(I failed trying to rephrase this to sound less sarcastic, but I'm genuinely looking for context here).

<comment><USER36> this is literally the ONLY modern smartphone at this size. miniaturization has become so costly that no major phone manufacturer is capable of doing it at scale.

<comment><USER37> I doubt it's capability, especially since smartphones used to be smaller in the past.

Average people just don't want smaller phones. So they are a nice product, and manufactures don't want to take a risk.

<comment><USER38> _Average people just don 't want smaller phones. So they are a nice product, and manufactures don't want to take a risk._

I don't believe this. It looks like supply and marketing pushing demand, like the SUV trend in the 00s.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER39> $249 is still a little overpriced considering alternative options, especially with a refurb/used iPhone 7 going for really cheap. As in, like, $160 on Ebay and more expensive for refurbs and new ones.

But hey, that's how they get rid of extra inventory. Not sure why it was delisted in the first place and not just put there, but that's their prerogative.

<comment><USER40> The iPhone 7/7 Plus is the series I tell everyone to avoid purchasing. We refuse to stock them for resale as well, and it's gotten so bad we even have customers sign a disclaimer when they bring them in for repair. (Note: We are not Apple authorized, so this is our policy, not Apple's.)

They have a serious manufacturing defect commonly known as the "Audio IC" issue. Apple downplays it, but eventually it hits almost every 7 series.

Apple offered a free repair program for a while, but has since discontinued it.

The 7 series is pretty much "designed to fail." We have seen flawless phones in Otterbox cases have this issue.

The 6 Plus also has defects on the Touch IC chip. We recommend the 6s or 8 series for customers.

If anyone reading this has a 7 or 7 Plus and is concerned about this issue, back up your phone on a regular basis at a minimum. Trade it in for an 8 or 8 Plus when you can. If you're happy with your 7, you don't need to go to the X/XS, but I would recommend stepping up to the 8.

<comment><USER41> I am ACIT and ACMT certified working for an AASP and you're absolutely right. The Audio IC issue with iPhone 7 and 7+ is awful but Apple refuses to acknowledge it's their problem. They had a rep program for a few months when it first started surfacing but then cancelled it when their own internal investigation said it wasn't their fault. While we tend not to recommend the 6s, we also don't sell and iPhones whether new or refurb.

<comment><USER42> Not sure they refuse to acknowledge it: my wife's 7+ had this last month and the Apple store said "Oh yeah, known problem" and replaced it free of charge.

<comment><USER37> Did they really admit that their products have problems? Wow.

I would have expected them to say something like "Oh yes It was totally your fault, but we can replace it for free because we're nice."

<comment><USER42> Yep. Well, "ett känd problem" as this was in Sweden, but they acknowledged it as an Apple thing. Maybe because it was still under EU warranty?

<comment><USER41> Yes if it's still under a warranty then Apple will repair or replace it free of charge.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER43> There are two main points here that Apple should take away from this discussion:

(1) People like the SE.

(2) People are confused by the placement of the "Clearance" section inside the "Refurbished" section.

If they can't take action on the first I hope they at least take action on the second.

</comment><comment> w-ll The new phones have some cool and interesting features, but i just love the SE. I bought 2 as back ups the last time they were on sale.

</comment><comment><USER44> I am a big dude with big hands, I love my XS. BUT: people with less big hands and especially women have expressed the sentiment that is showing up frequently in this thread about the smaller form factor being better---and I really don't understand why Apple is so reluctant to build for half its user base!

<comment><USER45> Hmm... if we make the argument that not making a SE 2 shows that Apple is a mysoginistic company, the backlash might convince them to actually develop a SE 2!

</comment></comment><comment><USER46> Interesting to see so many people here prefer smaller phones over big ones.

I was using iPhone 5, 5S, and SE for over 6 years. This Christmas I switched to XR and I couldn't be happier. I feel like there are so many productivity things I can do on my phone that were annoying before. I use notes, emails, and even Google Spreadsheets much more. I started using the Kindle app for reading and I actually like it. Sometimes, I even prefer it over Kindle (mostly because of what I can do with highlights right away).

The only downside is that a pocket on my favorite jeans isn't big enough. So the phone often has to go inside my backpack.

<comment><USER47> Some people just want to call, text, use Google Maps and occasionally browse Instagram and simply don't need the "much more".

I also simply have small hands. I can't comfortably reach left side of a keyboard with my thumb while holding the phone securely on anything bigger than SE so things like Reachability don't help at all.

</comment></comment><comment><USER48> I want an edge-to-edge display iPhone SE so bad.

<comment><USER49> I want an edge-to-edge iphone 7/8 myself. the SE is a tad too small and the X is a tad too big!

I really think they had the perfect weight size with the 6/7/8

</comment></comment><comment><USER50> I really liked the phone. This fits in the hand correctly and doesn't make me want to care extra.

</comment><comment><USER51> Hopefully they will refresh the specs soon. There is an Apple event tomorrow...

<comment><USER52> I'm pretty sure Apple announced all the hardware last week, and tomorrow's event will be all about services.

</comment></comment><comment><USER53> I switched from a 6s to the SE 1.5 months ago and I love it. Works for everything I need and the battery lasts all day.

</comment><comment><USER54> Been using an SE since Jan 2017, hope to continue using it a lot longer. I bought two more refurbished ones in case I break it, and the cost of doing that was still less than one of apple's newer offerings

</comment><comment><USER55> I lost my 6S a while ago, and was struggling to decide on a new phone. I would have picked up an X, but the XR/XS were being released in a few months, so I got an SE in the meantime. That turned out to be a fantastic choice, because I love my little SE. I realized that 90% of the reason I wanted a new phone was because of the camera, so I decided to take the savings from buying an SE and invest in an actual camera. I could not be happier with the combination.

</comment><comment><USER56> I still use an SE. It's by far the best phone that I've ever used, though I certainly have not used every model from every manufacturer. I bought a couple of spares because I like it so much.

The #1 reason I like it is because of the size. I'm a big person -- around 6'3 and large hands even for my height, and I just don't see how I could ever enjoy using a phone larger than an SE. I have used larger phones, Apple and other, and I can't stand it.

In fact, I just last night found my old iPhone 2, which going from the last photos on there I hadn't used since around 2011. That phone feels so good in my hand. The round frame is so nice. The size is perfect. The heft, seems a bit heavier than the SE, feels excellent and solid. If I could have a smartphone as small as _this_ one, but with the guts of even the SE, I would be ecstatic.

I don't miss the skeuomorphism and, I don't know, like a kind of jelly aesthetic(?) of the UI and icons and such. Very funny to see now. (Looks like iOS v 3.0 (7A341). I also think that was the last iPhone I used a jailbreak on. Kind of makes me want to do that again...

</comment><comment><USER57> I would buy a iPhone se2 in a heartbeat. Stick the higest end system on a chip it can handle in there, give it 1Tb storage, and sell it for $2000.

</comment><comment><USER58> Does the $249 price require a specific contract? All of them say "unlocked" so presumably they're the same phone.

<comment><USER39> No, it just comes with a different SIM kit.

</comment></comment><comment><USER59> I have it just for the small form factor. Luckily bought it 2 months before it got killed. Good news is though based on a recent screen crack replacement, Apple still supports fixing it.

</comment><comment><USER60> I'm tempted to buy one just to have a backup. I have no desire to own anything larger than the SE. But my current one is starting to show some wear and tear. I fear for its longevity. Apple has already refused to replace the battery and the phone keeps asking if I want to shut it off. I think the top button is just loose inside.

Either way, the SE is my favorite phone. I'm bummed the trend has gone towards bigger models.

</comment><comment><USER61> I'm quite interested in seeing how long iPhone SE will be supported for. I think it is likely that iOS 13 will support iPhone SE/6/6S (i.e. the A9 chipset)

</comment><comment><USER62> So happy to see so much people that like their SE, I bought something like 10 of them and still got mine and it's the best phone I ever touched.

</comment><comment><USER63> They say unlocked (T-mobile), unlocked (verizon). What does that mean?

My understanding of unlocked means free to use any carrier. Am i missing s

<comment><USER43> In this case, the carrier name in parenthesis is shorthand for the bands that the phone can operate on. T-Mobile is GSM, Verizon is CDMA. Some models of IPhone have both technologies, these do not have both.

<comment><USER64> But will it work on another GSM network, say ATT? Or in another country? I am looking to buy this phone for my mother in India.

<comment><USER43> Your best option is to compare the bands using GSM Arena:

[https://m.gsmarena.com/apple_iphone_se-7969.php](https://m.gsmarena.com/apple_iphone_se-7969.php)

Compare this to the service you plan on using.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER65> Timely announcement.

The battery on my (year old) Sony Z5C running LineageOS has recently decided to start failing. I had a Z3C for two years before it too decided to start failing on touch input (you'd think I'd learn my lesson by this point).

I lament the absence of compact Android phones with long-term security updates. Maybe it's time I just bite the bullet.

<comment><USER66> This is why I went with the SE a few years ago.

I figured I'd put my money where my mouth was: I wanted a premium smartphone with a small form-factor and all the Android-vendors were failing to deliver on that.

</comment></comment><comment><USER67> Why do they keep doing this? Making available in a small batch, selling out, make available another small batch, sell out, etc.

<comment><USER68> These are refurbished.

<comment><USER67> Apple had multiple batches in a row that were not refurbished (interestingly, at the same price as these refurbished ones).

<comment><USER69> Perhaps not all of them were available for Apple Store online inventory. Stock keeping as a science in itself.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER70> I was just about to get a new iphone se from ebay. I need one compatible with AT&T, and can't for the life of me tell which one of the ones available would work for me. They show 'verizon' and 't-mobile' \- which one of these would also work with AT&T network?

<comment><USER71> Not Verizon! The unlocked T-Mobile one would work.

<comment><USER72> What specific issues with new bands would some of the unlocked versions have? Say Verizon on Sprint, vice versa, and T-Mobile on AT&T?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER73> This was the best phone Apple ever made.

</comment><comment><USER74> When I go to the iPhones page on Apple Store, I don't see the SE, so this may just be a clearance of inventory event.

If it is not, and the SE is available for a long while, then this could be a double down bet and push to making a larger percentage of their profits with services.

</comment><comment><USER75> How is the SE different from the 6S?

<comment><USER76> Screen res/size, 3D (aka force) touch, front camera (5 vs 1.2MP), slightly bigger battery.

<comment><USER77> And barometer, strangely, as well as Touch ID sensor.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER78> Apple is struggling with innovation as well as admitting that some product lines (like SE) has a 1.0 stage when you do not need to add or remove (hello jack port) features anymore and you can just do minor updates (like CPU) every so often.

</comment><comment><USER79> Apple: Give us an SE2!

</comment><comment><USER80> Sadly not available in Germany. Would have loved to have one of those.

<comment><USER81> I brought a secondhand one from Smarter a couple of months ago. I think they are in France or Ireland.

I ordered a 64gb, and the order was delayed :/ So I complained they sent me a 128gb phone :) But the battery was not in good condition and needed replacement :/ But it turns out the phone had AppleCare so the battery replacement was free :) But because the AppleCare was purchased outside of Spain they could not send me a replacement - I had to do the battery swop in person at an apple store :/

So YMMV.

So YMMV.

</comment></comment><comment><USER82> The iPhone 5/5s was the zenith of the iPhone.

</comment><comment><USER83> I really liked my SE, however after the second charging port fail I got a Sony Xperia ZX2.

It's just a tiny bit bigger but much more powerful.

<comment><USER84> unlocked/rooted Sony Xperia Z5 Compact here w/ Lineage OS. love it.

<comment><USER83> What was the driving factor to use Lineage? Privacy?

<comment><USER84> both privacy and 0 bloat. lineage rom is 450mb. stock is like 2.5GB. what's in there? don't know, but nothing i need, obviously.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER85> First of all phones were big, then they got small, then big. And now small again. People are so fickle.

</comment><comment><USER86> Just an FYI, the 128gb option is 50 dollars more. Way more value for your dollar than the 32gb.

</comment><comment><USER87> i still use the se and i can afford any iphone. i have a stack of se for when i break one. no other iphone seems close

</comment><comment><USER88> is it back, or they are clearing refurbished stock? it was on clearance page.

</comment><comment><USER89> Haha, funny, related to a tweet I posted some times ago : [https://twitter.com/C0il/status/1040566413541470208](https://twitter.com/C0il/status/1040566413541470208) "Hi @Apple , I'd like a small smartphone (4 inch screen), what do you have?" SE is enough for me, I'll never pay more than 500$ for a Phone so if Apple doesn't have an option in this range of price I'll switch to something else. + I don't like big Phones.

</comment><comment><USER90> This is a refurbished one.

I don't get why people still buy SE when you have a multitude of better phones from other companies, say Samsung or OnePlus.

<comment><USER91> I'm really curious - What else can I buy in that size range? I'm very interested in newer small phones.

<comment><USER39> It's definitely an under-saturated market. Some people fancy regular sized Pixels (of any gen). A family member of mine prefers small phone sizes, uses a Pixel on a regular basis, and it works for them. I expect the same for the newer gen non-XL models.

There are the really niche (and borderline fringy) ones you can find on Amazon. There are also some more general purpose Chinese phones for that. I'm not going to get into any of them because they're probably not what you're looking for, but they exist. (read: Unihertz phones)

On that note, there are the Nokia phones which are reasonably-enough sized, but nothing special. They're also quite terrible and overpriced as phones. The new Palm phone is also kinda fringy but worth considering.

A lot of these aren't really in this form factor, but phones are getting way too big and it's getting harder and harder to find really small phones like these (that can be reasonably used, ofc).

<comment><USER92> The secondary market for Nokias is pretty good, a Nokia 6.1 can be had for ~$160, which is a reasonable price for it.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER93> Haven't been mentioned here yet I believe, but the "new" iPhone SE also comes with 128GB!

This was the major reason for me to switch to an iPhone 8, because 64GB just wasn't enough.

But I still dislike the larger form factor and especially the stupid glass back which is super slippery, it will slide down a chair if the chair is slightly round. But yay, we finally got wireless charging who absolutely NOBODY is using. I havent heard of a single person since it has been released 1,5 years ago.

I'm in love with the USB-C charging of the iPhone 8 though - which hardly gets mentioned. In my car I have a powerful Anker USB-C charger and if I get in the car with just 50% battery, a 20min ride will easy get me to 80%.

Hoping to see an iPhone SE2 in the future...

<comment><USER66> They improved the top SE-model to be 128GB over a year ago. Not news.

Source: bought it for my wife.</comment></comment>


Visual Resume version 2 - About - <AUTHOR> http://www.ajaimk.com/about/ <comment><AUTHOR> Hoping to make version 3 better. Please suggest changes and improvements.</comment>


Memory inside Linux containers (2014) - <AUTHOR> https://fabiokung.com/2014/03/13/memory-inside-linux-containers/ <comment><USER3> CPU also causes a similar problem - for instance Java (and lots of runtime Java libraries) use the number of available CPUs to decide how many threads to use for various tasks, which can cause terrible performance if you're giving a container 1 CPU of a 48 CPU server and it thinks all 48 are available - <USER2> encountered this at work recently and eventually bodged around it, but definitely a gotcha that this stuff isn't handled properly by runtimes yet.

<comment><USER4> java9/hotspot has -XX:+UseCGroupMemoryLimitForHeap to deal with the memory part and I think the method to get the number of CPUs also takes cgroups/taskset into account now.

<comment><USER5> Actually the `-XX:+UseCGroupMemoryLimitForHeap` option is also in Java 8 since Java 8u131, so it's available for nearly everyone right now. It doesn't solve a lot of problems though: by default the JVM will use only 1/4th of the memory (cgroup) limit as its heap size, which wastes most of the container's memory. It's thus attractive to use `-XX:+UseCGroupMemoryLimitForHeap` together with `-XX:MaxRAMFraction=1` to get maximum heap size given your container limits. However, because total JVM memory is heap+permgen+threads*stacksize, you'll leave no memory for threads this way. If you're running an average web server, it will spawn dozens of threads and get your application above the cgroup memory limit (=OOM killed) pretty fast.

The only way out is to configure memory limits by hand, taking into account the maximum number of threads your application will use. That usually isn't trivial.

<comment><USER4> They're changing MaxRAMFraction to take non-integer values, so in some upcoming java release (yay 6month release cycle) that problem should go away too.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> >Or why don't free and top work in a Linux container?

You can use the lxcfs fuse filesystem to get that and a little more: [https://github.com/lxc/lxcfs/blob/master/README.md](https://github.com/lxc/lxcfs/blob/master/README.md)

</comment><comment><USER7> I definitely don't think systemd should be the go-to system for memory info. It already has too many functions, and does way too much.</comment>


New publisher Modern Wolf declare commitment to "ethical game development" - <AUTHOR> https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2019/08/22/new-publisher-modern-wolf-declare-commitment-to-ethical-game-development/ <comment><USER2> I'd say this is more of a feel good announcement than anything as it will have extremely little impact on the gaming industry. There are billions and billions of dollars to be made through MTX, major publishing companies do not care what small time studios have to say. The amount of people who actively stray away from MTX purchases are few in number compared to the people who spend money on in game purchases. You see small boycott attempts on subreddits for games all the time over MTX and they amount to nothing, there's just too many people that spend on cosmetics and in game boosts (when applicable) for game companies to back down from including them.

When done right, MTX options can be fun for players and profitable for the company. The problem is that they are rarely done right, as greed so often takes over. A good example is the last few Call of Duty games. They like to start the loot box system with cosmetics only and assure players that loot box only usable items will never happen. Only for them to be added months later as they realize how much money they can make from it. Sure controversy always ensues but who cares, these decision makers don't have a care in the world for people who complain, they raking in billions.

<comment><USER3> It's been a while since I played it but _Path of Exile_ did MTX absolutely right. There was only one item you could buy that had any real practical effect on the game and that was extra stash tabs (you start with four), everything else was cosmetics, and they make enough money to keep pumping out new content year over year.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Here's the approach I've thought of for my own game project:

If you want to be on the leader-boards and be a high level competitive player, there's only one micro-transaction you're allowed to have. ($1 monthly membership to "Stellar Exploration Corps.") Meanwhile, on another site like Indiegogo, there would be a number of digital assets offered as rewards for funders. One could pay $25, $75, $200, $1000 dollars to become an interstellar tycoon, alien spy, or a space pirate lord -- basically, you pay money to have a chance to inhabit the world as an important person. These "funder" characters would then have access to a catalog of conventional micro- transactions. In doing so, they would be funding and building content for the competitive player base. Basically, becoming NPCs from the POV of the competitive players.

Naturally, "Stellar Exploration Corps" members wouldn't be allowed to trade items or currency with the other characters. ("Conflict of Interest.")

</comment><comment><USER5> There is not enough of actual substance here to know if this is anything more than marketing on the publisher's part. The sorts of things that matter most for independent developers - milestone definitions, payment structures, royalty splits, marketing commitments - aren't touched on here and would vary on a contract by contract basis regardless.

Even with industry leading terms, the publisher isn't making the game. The culture and leadership of the development studio will dictate whether and how they crunch, who has a creative voice, and how developers are compensated. There are plenty of publishers and alternative funding sources that allow for good outcomes for developers who want to make games in an ethical way. It's not clear what Modern Wolf's key differentiator is.

</comment><comment><USER6> I feel like a bit of a wet blanket saying this, but it's roughly equivalent to Google making its motto, "Don't be evil." Gestures are nice; actions better beget true intentions.

</comment><comment><USER7> Is ethical game development something the market actually respects and informs purchasing decisions?

<comment><USER8> anecdotal of course but i know me and many of my friends dont buy $60 games with microtransactions (of _any_ kind), or games with lootboxes. we're ok with not playing overwatch or EA/ActiBliz/Ubisofts latest cash-grab at the expense of not feeling like we're being manipulated/shafted 24/7

<comment><USER9> If the loot boxes or micro-transactions are only for cosmetic items, I don't mind them. If something is pay to win, I won't play it.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> > Final creative say is grand, but Modern Wolf will still be making the big > business decisions.

Hmmm. I would love to know what the difference is. Devs get to define gameplay, but company gets to enforce microtransactions?

</comment><comment><USER11> I wonder if they will continue the games industry trend of paying developers lower than they would in other industries or not...

<comment><USER5> While there is still a disparity, it has decreased over time. The comp for senior engineers at the larger studios compares favorably with the broader technology sector, outside of a handful of companies.

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> Question for those philosophy majors out there...

I'm having trouble with the general concept of labeling something "ethical", as thought it were a binary quality akin to "kosher".

My understanding is that "ethics" classically refers to any particular set of moral principles. That would include Mahatma Gandhi's, Adolf Hitler's, _and_ Jeff Bezos'.

So I'm assuming that usages such as "ethical game development" imply adherence to some particular, unstated ethic. But I'm not clear what ethic they're implying.</comment>


When software offends, the pantyshot package controversy - <AUTHOR> http://www.zdnet.com/blog/violetblue/when-software-offends-the-pantyshot-package-controversy/509 <comment><USER2> I look at the choice of "Misaka" after "pantyshot" and think this is unambiguously an example for talking about the recent topic of not tolerating assholes in open source software.

<comment><USER3> Man spends hours developing free software for the world and gives it a tongue in cheek name. World judges man and software by name, wants the software out of repository and the man gone from the planet.

I think John Cleese would like to send you all to the front line of a gruesome war – in panties, of course – to learn to deal with an actual problem.

<comment><USER2> That's a big brush you're painting with, but the core is true: this is about judging how they chose to name their project.

<comment><USER4> I'm sure I'm not the only one who changed his project name after seeing how crazy people can get over a name.

It's free publicity, after all :p

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> There are times where I envy the straight forward rationale of these beasts of burden we instruct in our daily routines. The name of the package is irrelevant to them, its just an identifier that represents a thing that does stuff.

As software engineers you'd hope we were some of the most logical peoples of this planet but then we find ourselves tripping over our own societal taboos and inferences we are perceiving that didn't even exist in the first place.

I mean I can understand the odd chuckle over the BackendInspector class but to take something to this level just over the name? I'd be interested to hear the full coverage that this got cause the original author appears to be completely distraught over the reaction:

[http://fossil.instinctive.eu/libupskirt/wiki?name=about- the-...](http://fossil.instinctive.eu/libupskirt/wiki?name=about-the-name)

Makes me wonder what does more harm. A potentially offensive name or people's reaction to said name. I'm leaning towards the latter based on that link.

<comment><USER6> I don't know how upset she really is here (the page you linked to seems pretty measured) but she's had an "us vs. them" narrative going with her library for awhile, ever since Github forked it. I can't find it now, but she had a commit-for-commit commentary for Github's "Redcarpet" fork which at times seemed unhinged.

I paid attention to this only because we helped with Github's audit of the code, and am motivated to comment here primarily as an opportunity to say:

 _Make sure your Markdown library is secure_.

Everyone seems at some point to end up with a C-language Markdown implementation, and nobody I know of has managed to implement Markdown in C without memory corruption bugs... you know, the kind that let attackers upload their own code onto your servers.

<comment><USER5> Now this is what I'm much more interested in. Security of the code is a off- the-charts more important than what the package happens to be called. ;)

Thanks for the insight. The article suggests the author is upset due to controversy due to the name but I assume her anguish is more due to the forking of the library and what she feels is the removal of her credit?

<comment><USER6> No; Github gave her credit immediately on starting the project. She was irritated that they chose to fork her code at all, and disapproved of many of the changes. But her code, as Github found it, was absolutely not safe to run on a popular public web app.

<comment><USER5> This is so much more of a better story than the OP. Thanks for filling in the gaps, much appreciated.

<comment><AUTHOR> Having submitted the OP, I completely agree. You never know where an informative tptacek post will show up... :)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> I was surprised at how the article characterized the terms "pantyshot" and "upskirt" -- how extremely negative. My familiarity with the terms is not from porn but from celebrities who, whoops, get caught flashing their panties inadvertently in public. So to my mind this was relatively innocent activity and I would have never thought of it in the extremely negative way the article portrays it.

Also, people often have no idea how badly something like this will be viewed by others. I have seen several instances of that sort of thing here on HN and (IIRC) in every case where I have commented on it, simply informing them of how negatively their term was viewed caused them to change it (either the name of the product/site or some wording on it). They just didn't know.

Edit: Can anyone explain to me why this would be downvoted? Thanks in advance for any enlightenment.

<comment><USER8> _My familiarity with the terms is not from porn but from celebrities who, whoops, get caught flashing their panties inadvertently in public. So to my mind this was relatively innocent activity_

Famous female celebrity gets out of car, inadvertently flashes underwear due to short skirt, photographer snaps said inadvertent underwear flash and publishes results for titillation and ridicule.

Innocent on the part of the celebrity, sure. But not innocent on the part of the photographer which I think squarely places this within Violet Blue's assertion of upskit/pantyshot being 'an attack on a female'.

<comment><USER9> She also characterized it as 'illegal,' which may be the case for hidden cameras, but I doubt it is the case for celebrities in a public space.

<comment><USER10> In the US, it's illegal in "circumstances in which a reasonable person would believe that a private area of the individual would not be visible to the public, regardless of whether that person is in a public or private place."

<comment><USER9> I find that a bit debatable though. It seems like these laws are specifically targeting hidden cameras in public spaces. If I'm a celebrity wearing a skirt (or kilt) with no undergarments on, who has an army of photographers capturing everything I do, how can I reasonably think that my private area would remain 'not visible' when performing certain maneuvers.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> Sexism and Racism: two cards people play all the time for ever-annoying reasons. They're the kind of arguments you "can't be against" because, how can you be against stopping racism/sexism? They're also the kind of arguments that keep sexism/racism happening. We should focus on the important parts:

Are you offended by it? - Deal with it or don't use it or politely make your opinion known to the author. Be an adult and don't "Quit Open Source" or "Ban the package" or "Rant about how Open Source developers are discriminating white males" because that just makes you look silly and chlidish.

Did you name it that way? - if you want widespread usage of your package, know that a polarizing name and one that will be hidden under the throves of porn in a search engine can impact the adoption of your piece of software. Also, it will make you look Silly and childish.

We are all educated and grown people, we should be able to make these decisions easily in our lives.

If I make a CoffeeScript to Assembly translator called "Beaner" I should at least know that Some people won't appreciate it and call me racist and probably some mexican will quit open source software forever. And I'm taking that risk by naming my package that way.

We shouldn't be afraid of being offended. I'm offended all the time and it doesn't stop me from living my life properly.

<comment><USER12> You're asking people not to have a knee-jerk reaction to offensive language, but you're having a knee-jerk reaction to people being offended. Some people might choke on their morning coffee when reviewing a pull request for "pantyshot", but the majority of us just want a bit of civility (not unlike the rules of HN).

<comment><USER3> Nobody chokes on their morning coffee when reviewing a pull request for "pantyshot". Such people ought to be sent to the front line in all-out war to learn to deal with some real issues in life.

Besides, men wear panties too. I've seen them do it.

<comment><USER13> I don't see the connection to being sent to war: It seems like you are trying to say "because this (war) is more unpleasant, you have nothing to complain about", which makes no sense.

<comment><USER4> I think he was trying to say that experiencing high magnitude discomfort puts low magnitude discomfort in perspective.

Also, knowing several Iraq veterans before and after, it seems to get you very comfortable with offensive language :p

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> This is interesting on multiple levels. There was the Python Software Foundation's decision to be reactive rather than proactive. Then why give it such a name? Esp. since the author was a woman. Who didnt speak English, and used a name suggested by a friend(?). There we arrive at what I consider to be reprehensible behavior: to expose someone to ridicule in the guise of giving help.

<comment><USER15> I'm not sure I would say she doesn't speak English. Check out her blog post about this: [http://fossil.instinctive.eu/libupskirt/wiki?name=about- the-...](http://fossil.instinctive.eu/libupskirt/wiki?name=about-the-name)

Especially:

 _I did know the sexual and voyeurism connotations of the word "upskirt" and I was very hesitant to actually use it. For the record, my limited grasp of slang English means that I genuinely had no idea where it lied on the offensiveness scale, and whether it could be covered up as something more harmless (and have it be more of an innuendo than of a basic offensive word)._

I'm not sure what to make of that, but I do think that naming software with any sort of sexual innuendo regardless of how offensive it is is a very poor choice. More than anything else, I feel embarrassed to be in tech when this sort of thing happens.

<comment><USER14> I stand corrected. Wow. Best to avoid slang in a language you dont understand very well.

<comment><USER7> Not just slang (I mean not just intentional use of slang). I used to talk to a man online who was very interested in politics. Because I am American and he was not (and I think English was like his fourth language), he routinely referred to President Bush as "your Bush". I'm female, so this made me very uncomfortable and I finally asked him "Do you know what that means in English slang?" He wasn't attempting to use slang, but boy did it sound bad to me.

There are all kinds of landmines when you try to speak another language. I have lots of humorous/embarrassing stories from growing up in a bilingual family.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> Similar situation of insulting source code: <http://bugs.debian.org/cgi- bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=477454>

</comment><comment><USER17> One reason you shouldn't name your software something like this is because it will be hard too google for. All the web results for this will be for the porn version of the name. You shouldn't name your software something that's hard for people to find

<comment><USER14> Kind of the inverse of rule 43. If you search for porn long enough on the internet, you will end up with software.

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> Well, reading the _actual explanation_ page by the author of libupskirt, it's obvious she's not upset by being tricked into using that name, but she's upset because of the _reactions_ of _other people_ to that name.

She's quite clear she "did know the sexual and voyeurism connotations of the word "upskirt"", but she was caught completely surprised by the _shitstorm_ created by people that felt offended by it.

So if you're looking for blame, blame the white knights on their high horses of political correctness, for giving somebody so much shit over what could have been just a childish joke [like there are many others, as pointed out ITT], that she just wanted to quit and have nothing to do with the entire shitbasket anymore.

Just read it. Even after knowing exactly what it meant, her horror is at the reaction of the angry PC mob, that is making this word out to be much worse than the harmless innuendo she intended it to be.

This woman is clearly intimidated, so much she's making blanket apologies left and right and just wants this to be over. But ask yourselves, _who's she intimidated by?_

</comment><comment><USER19> Serious question: can we fork the library, s/pantyshot/somethingelse/g, submit it to PyPI, and then just nobody use the original?

<comment><USER3> No, because it would be hypocrite to rate the importance of the name higher than the value of the code, and then nevertheless try to steal the code from the guy who spent all the time developing it.

The guy wrote the code and gave it a tongue in cheek name. Deal with it. What the hell is wrong with this world? Moral outrage in the sub-urbian latte crowd? Pillows not fluffed enough?

<comment><USER8> Since when is forking open source code 'stealing' it?

 _Oh boy, what can of worms am I opening here..._

<comment><USER20> _Since when is forking open source code 'stealing' it?_

According to the FSF? Usually when you do something with it that RMS doesn't like. GPLv3 anyone? (Sorry I couldn't resist.)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> Seems relatively simple. This Frank Smit guy loves anime in a borderline- creepy way and is, like the original developer, not a native english speaker.

[1]: <http://61924.nl/04-11-2011/ubuntu-10-dot-10.html>

[2]: <http://61924.nl/about.html>

<comment><USER22> Just curious, but how is this borderline creepy?

<comment><USER23> It isn't. It's just people talking about things which they know next to nothing about. Move on, nothing to see here.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> Tbh, I slightly frowned when I installed the unicode-nazi python package last week. It's just not what you want to call your package..

<comment><USER23> Uh, since it's quite obviously a pun on "grammar-nazi" I fail to see your point. Even the description of the package makes it obvious:

 _Annoying helper module that finds unicode/bytestring comparisions and other problems._

</comment></comment><comment><USER25> I wonder how the hell did they focus on Misaka and upskirts... cause anyone who read/watched the material would know, that the running gag is that her clothing makes any try at pantyshot futile... and thus doesn't really care about moving in a way that would normally expose her.

I guess my astonishment comes from the fact that to me, the name reminds me not of a minor gag, but rather of the mentally-broken, war-torn 13~14yo who could take over any computer system, and use coins (and other conducting materials) as hypervelocity projectiles (thus her nickname, "Railgun").

So... once again, media jumping to worst possible interpretation?

<comment><USER26> It's not only "media" that thought he was a tool for it. The relation was made by a member of the Python community.

</comment></comment><comment><USER27> Python Package Index is a product of many years of effort by many people. It is not only used in hobby projects but also within enterprises. If Frank's actions harm PPI's upstanding, then he should volutarily leave PPI and distribute his packages through alternative mechanisms. All you need is for some nutcase to make fun of a prophet and lodge it with PPI for all of us to be tarred with the same brush.

</comment><comment><USER28> Personally, I'm not surprised the name came from IRC...

</comment><comment><USER4> > It's not that the names were simply sexual in nature: it was that they > targeted a women over the very thing that makes them a minority in the > Python community in the first place: you could call it a sexual exploit.

I don't understand this part -- what is she saying causes women to be a minority in the Python community?

</comment><comment><USER29> There's another domain where predominantly white males give arbitrary names: Physics. While there are many examples of funny or quirky names there, none of them is offensive. For the extra reason that the innuendo loses its humor after the first time you use it, and these names are meant to stick indefinately.

P.S. Also Biology, but these people are not even comfortable with sonic the hedgehog.

<comment><USER30> Biologist here.

The _Drosophila_ community is rife with humorous (and sometimes offensive) gene names like "Cheap Date" (ethanol sensitivity), "Ken and Barbie" (genitalia fail to develop), and "Fruity" (male fruit flies show no attraction to females) -- that one was so controversial it got renamed "fruitless".

<http://flybase.org/reports/FBgn0004652.html>

The research communities for organisms such as _E. coli_ tend to think this practice is immature. Genes should follow a specific nomenclature: fis (factor for inversion stimulation), mot (motility), etc.

This issue with software has been around a while, too. A ton of people dislike the name "Gimp", for instance.

<comment><USER29> Wow, i didn't know fruity was a slang word for gay. But see, the community changed it eventhough it's a milder case than the one presented here (as "pantyshot" presumably refers to a non-consensual/harassment act (not that i am not sympathetic to gay drosophilas))

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER31> Well, I'd better go rename my Burger package before it offends vegetarians.

<comment><USER32> It's not the same thing. As the article discusses, it's not just that the name is sexual but that it refers to an act that victimizes its subject because they are unaware it is happening.</comment></comment>


Ask HN:  Fixing the recruiter industry - <AUTHOR>

I hate recruiters, a lot.  Inane emails, phone calls, and messages on your social network of choice seem to be common modus operandi.
Has anyone considered this problem/Are there solutions out there? If so, are they decent? And if not, does anyone have any suggestions?  I'm not very familiar with the industry, but HATE HATE HATE when they bug me.  There must be a better way.  I was thinking about some sort of bidding system based solution, but haven't had a chance to really flesh out the idea. Would anyone be interested in working on it?
About me:  Completed CS undergrad at a top 10 school, about to complete a JD/Business School combined degree at another top 10 US university.  Some startup experience.  Comfortable with Java, Ruby, and Scala.
Thanks for reading.  If you are interested feel free to contact me at ihaterecruiters [at] gmail <comment><USER2> Funny thing about recruiters, is going through a recruiter I've generally wound up with higher pay than doing things the other way around. They'll be their typical aggressive recruiter selves, sell me, bid me up and insist that I can't possibly work for less than X without making me seem like the prima donna.. I still get to be the mild mannered guy who's primarily motivated by the quality of work. They've also gotten me into places faster.. last couple of times I was looking for work, the companies with a recruiter had me into final interview stage before other companies (some of whom I was actually interested enough in to seek out and contact) even got back to me from my first "here's my resume" email.

So.. they actually do work. You'd think that if the company wasn't forking over 25% of my salary to a recruiter, they'd be more enthusiastic to speak to me and would be willing to pay me more, but it hasn't worked out that way in practice. YMMV.

<comment><USER3> That sounds more like having an agent (like pro athletes) then being recruited. That model might work.

<comment><USER4> Except most candidates don't have the (perceived) star power they need for this model to work.

E.g., if the Yankees thought all first basemen were pretty much the same, there's no way Scott Boras could have convinced them to spend so much on Mark Teixeira last winter.

No recruiter is going to do the work of an agent (which requires a totally different focus & commitment to the candidate) for Joe Average programmer.

<comment><USER3> You don't need "star power" to have an agent, just marketable skills. Almost all pro athletes (with a few notable exceptions like Daunte Culpepper) have agents, from Texeira's backup all the way down to the guys in double and single-A. (Okay, not sure about how far down it goes.)

And your point about recruiters not doing the work of agents is correct. Recruiters recruit, ergo they work for the hiring company.

Agents represent the talent. In this case, I'm guessing an agent would pound the pavement looking for programming jobs while the programmer sits at home waiting for a phone call.

At this point of the analogy, it's starting to sound a little ridiculous, but who know.

<comment><USER5> It wouldn't be ridiculous if the programmer is working full time with constant work coming in while the agent is out pounding the pavement. There's no reason the two tasks of "finding work" and "doing work" need to be done serially.

And what you've just described is what consulting firms do. The sales people are out pounding the pavement hitting up prospective customers to bring in work for the programmers (or whatever positions the sales people have claimed they have bodies for). This obviously isn't an ideal situation, for the customer or the programmer, but it seems to be reasonably successful, at least with large consulting firms. It could work better with a customer centric salesman and a small team of developers -- I'm sure there's small 4 or 5 people firms that work like this, with a "sales agent" in house.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Folks at Hacker Dojo have been discussing holding a reverse job fair, where hackers who are in the job market come in with their craft (live demo, code samples and whatnot) and interact with other engineers or hiring managers who can recognize their mad skills and refer internally, decide who to bring in for further interview or hire someone on the spot!

It's not scalable, but as I see more and more co-working spaces sprout up in many places, this could be ONE way of solving the hiring/recruiting problem for hackers.

<comment><USER7> like hackers-got-talent or x-codemonkeys

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> Bidding system? Hmm...

Like if I put my resume on a site, someone has to bid to contact me? Perhaps as an applicant, you can set a base price and a frequency of contact. Maybe you only allow one recruiter to contact you per week or day. If you want to be that recruiter, it'll cost you minimum $1. If more than one recruiter wants to contact you, they bid up the price.

Applicants could regulate the minimum price based on their current status. If they are employed happily, the price is $1000. If they are unemployed, perhaps it's zero with unlimited contacts until they get flooded and then the price goes up.

The economics of such an idea is interesting. It assumes a shift in power from the employer to the applicant. The best of the best will rise to the top and a natural ranking of applicants will evolve based on the bid. Great applicants could sustain themselves on employer interest for a while until recruiters give up trying to gain their interest.

Could something like this work? I suppose it depends on supply and demand of both applicants and jobs.

<comment><USER9> People would inflate their minimum bid prices to increase their status, and so everyone would be expensive to contact. So no one would use the site for recruiting.

<comment><AUTHOR> What if there was no status per se or what if status was based on "tests" of some sort and independent of pricing?

<comment><USER8> Elance does the testing method, but it isn't too successful.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> I think that programmers often encounter a culture clash with recruiters. A recruiter has a client (and it's not you) and has to fill a large number of positions. I have had some awful experiences. Once, the recruiter sent a modified version of my CV to a company and exaggerated my experience in certain areas. I guess she thought she was doing me a favour, but I ended up looking like an idiot in the interview.

</comment><comment><USER7> Guys & Dolls,

Recruitment is sales. 95% of your time is wasted calling clients and candidates for the one time you get a match. This is unless you manage a number of clients where you are fed requirements, and then it's just the candidate part.

There is no way to escape it; the best thing to do is to shield yourself from the continuous onslaught.

• Insist all communication is sent to a "jobs" email and have GMail filter it or poll it • Delete your phone number off CV's when sending them in or posting on the web. • Make your most recent employer anonymous • You can also use an initial instead of your first name incase they have your details already, it may fool them ;-) • Make sure your CV is well written and updated • Insist on seeing a job spec before giving them your number, if you're the perfect match they will take the time. • Do tell them your current status and salary

DO NOT tell them info on current company, manager until you trust them.

Remember they want to close candidates, clients, deals – it's a sales job

Every call is a sales call; they will try to strip you for information, about colleagues, workplace, inside info, references for managers' names

We would often misplace the truth or withhold information to close deals; this is common practice in the UK/Europe. The most common one telling people we had sent their CV to an employer when we hadn't just to ensure they wouldn't let other recruiters send it to the client and increasing the likeliness that our current candidates had a better chance.

I think Recruiters have a place in society, some are upstanding and honest, other aren't. As I mentioned, it's about distancing yourself from them until they have the ideal job for you.

P.S. Sorry for the ramblings, trying to watch TV and take care of my 4 day old daughter.

I'm a mature student studying CS but worked as an IT recruiter before deciding I wanted to turn to the other side.

<comment><USER4> " _Do tell them your current status and salary_ "

I could not disagree more.

If you're switching jobs, one of your goals should be to get the most salary you can (many reasons for this, best described in detail by Jeffrey J. Fox in his "How to Become CEO" book).

Telling the recruiter (and thus the hiring firm) how much you make now is a mistake b/c they'll use that to make an incremental increase over your current salary (say 10 to 20 percent), whereas they might have been willing to offer you much more.

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> I think a service product is a much better option. What is recruiting after all? It's a) contacts and b) a filter.

Programmers deal with recruiters because they have the "exclusives" and companies deal with recruiters because they can filter out the first interview stage.

So create a service, that will let companies find out the quality of the programmer, without shelling out $20,000.

I imagine it as a "testing company" you create a few thousand tests, programmers take them, get their rank, then they add it to their resumes.

Employers see the ranking link, go to your site, find out about your testing methods, see aha, 90% percentile on this tough test, good guy to interview.

Eventually offer programmers the ability to list their rates + languages, and let employers contact them for a small fee. i.e. Search for all programmers under $50/hr in California with Java rank of 90th percentile.

Make one of the questionnaires the usual questions asked in the first interview, you know the script all recruiters follow to weed out people.

<comment><USER12> Too easy to cheat the test. Next.

<comment><USER11> fine, make it a real test, where you have to take a test in front of a representative

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> I used to have a canned email that I used to reply to recruiters.

It basically explained (in better words) that I needed the name, website and physical address of the company, because I was very picky about culture and location, and it would save us both a ton of time.

It also said I had no incentive to screw them and go directly to the company, if I was indeed interested.

Worked 50% of the time. Some people wanted me to call them first before telling me the info (I wonder why), and others plain told me "that's not how this works, I've been burned before", but even when it did work, it seems like it caused said recruiter to not send any more leads my way.

So I went back to playing their game. Which I hate as much as you do.

<comment><USER14> I ignore all recruiters, except two who know:

1\. My requirements for a potential employer (location, size, culture, etc) 2\. My preferred method of communication (email) 3\. When I might be actively looking.

I think there are good recruiters out there who are willing to work with both employers and job seekers. They are, however, few and far between.

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> Dude, that's a pretty sweet problem to have. "Shoot!! all these people keep calling me about how awesome I am and how many job offers they can get me. The nerve..."

Not the kind of problem to be upset about IMHO. If I were you I'd send them all Christmas cards and be glad that you're so sought after.

:-) cheers!

<comment><USER16> It'd be sweet if they actually got you an appropriate job - if all they do is mangle and falsify your resume and send you on inappropriate interviews, then they're a bother.

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> Recruiters exists because of two problems:

1) Programmers can't find all the jobs that are available 2) Companies aren't generally able to evaluate programmers

But #1 is less and less true, and the recruitment industry doesn't do a good job of addressing #2.

</comment><comment><USER18> Hey fellas/ladies - one of my developer cronies sent this post my way and I'd LOVE to chat with some of y'all. I AM a recruiter and have been for the last 12+ years..in addition I share the exact sentiment that you have written on the pages below. Any of you wanna chat off line? If so, I'd welcome it and would enjoy your contribution on my blog TheAntiPimp.com. Might also help to check out this post I did about the things I hate about recruiters...rock on.

<http://theantipimp.com/?p=1082>

Scott email@example.com

<comment><AUTHOR> Awaiting the.. "and I have some great opportunities that you might be interested in". Case and point imo.

<comment><USER18> blah blah blah. If you are waiting on that, you'll be waiting a long time. Dude..I've done this for too long to even attempt to come to a forum like this and do sh*t like that. I'm just offering an honest view from the other side of the table. Honestly..I don't like recruiters either. Which is why I started my site. Have a great weekend.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> Be original. If you want something unconventional, you'll have to make it happen. Here is some inspiration: [http://www.socialmediajobs.com.au/blog/wp- content/uploads/20...](http://www.socialmediajobs.com.au/blog/wp- content/uploads/2009/11/dnd-resume-23.jpg)

<comment><AUTHOR> I don't get it. I'm not looking for a job here, just voicing my distress at the recruiting industry.

<comment><USER19> Your last two paragraphs don't look so innocent to me.

<comment><AUTHOR> Yes but if you read carefully, instead of just "look"ing, you would see that 1) I am a student with a semester left and therefore don't need a job and 2) I am soliciting offers to work with someone on solving this problem i.e. creating a solution. I am NOT asking for hints on job searches or tips on how to create a "creative" resume. Sorry if this sounds condescending, but it is frustrating when people don't read the post and respond to some other issue altogether.

<comment><USER19> You're in the right. My apologies.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> I had a women ask me once if I was interested in a position writing C Pound.

</comment><comment><USER21> don't have much to add here except: yeah, who _hasn't_ had bad recruiter experiences? i wish i was l33t enough that i could ignore them altogether, but i'm not.

i have had a few good experiences, but even then, i've never met even one who had a good grasp of the technical skills that they are trying to sell to potential employers. that's always struck me as kind of odd.</comment>