Baby Boomers Who Won't Sell Are Dominating the Housing Market - <AUTHOR> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-08/baby-boomers-who-won-t-sell-are-dominating-the-housing-market <comment><USER2> The real problem, and the article alludes to this, isn't just that the boomers aren't moving, it's that they aren't moving AND they're preventing more and denser housing from being constructed in their neighborhoods. Many of these boomers live in single family zoned neighborhoods and fight tooth and nail against allowing any multi family developement around them (i.e. Duplexes or 4 plexes). This chokes of supply, raises land prices, and makes living unaffordable for younger folks who do not yet own.

<comment><USER3> What's stranger still is when affordable housing advocates align with the boomers against building new construction because its not all affordable. Basically its much easier to say no to anything than yes to a compromise.

<comment><USER4> I've never seen any housing advocate be opposed to new housing just because it would be unaffordable. Always there is another reason. Often in such a scenario the new housing proposal relied on displacing existing low income housing.

Affordable housing advocates would be happy to see low density mansions upzoned into relatively cheaper multi family housing but those are never the proposals we see. Instead again and again we see proposals to tear down affordable multi family apartments for working class people in order to build larger, more expensive multi family apartments for the middle class. I am unsurprised to see housing activists opposed to these sort of upzonings even if they would result in a net increase of housing.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> And why would they participate in the market and sell? Most of my older neighbors have paid off their house and are retired so now they have where to live without paying a mortgage every month so no extra expense for that. Isn't this the general idea of some people thinking ahead? What would they do if they sold? Go to a nursing home?

I was talking with one of them a couple years ago about the idea of downsizing. They couldn't find anything that meet their requirements so they didn't.

<comment><USER6> The tone of the whole thing is quite odd. It's like saying "Boomers who won't cash in their IRAs distort stock market", but houses are not just an investment mechanism! Everyone starts out house-negative, so the assumption that people are going to sell down from 1 house to 0 is a bit bizarre. Sure, some might eventually downsize, rent, or move to shared living, but not everyone will. I'm not sure why this is a surprise.

<comment><USER5> I agree hence my comment. For me personally i'm looking at paying our main property off and call it a day. No more mortgage, no more bank that can get my house in case something happens etc etc. Plus with no more mortgage and other bank payments your life becomes a bit simpler.

The market is sill there for housing, if the market supports new housing they will be built.

<comment><USER7> It becomes a lot simpler once you get the bankers off your back. Being mortgage free and having your own house is very liberating feeling.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> At the heart of the problem:

> Public policy contributes to the generational standoff. Property-tax > exemptions for longtime residents keep older Americans from moving. Zoning > rules make it harder to build affordable apartments attractive to senior > citizens.

It's moreso about gov policies than it is about generational differences.

<comment><USER9> Yep, the market is skewed by policy. You get to buy a house using the mortgage interest deduction and then you get artificially low property taxes as your property value increases over time (in CA). Meanwhile renters don't get any sort of "rent deduction" and get stuck paying higher rent when property values go up even though the landlord's property taxes don't go up much.

<comment><USER10> The landlord deducts mortgage interest as a business expense, a cost savings which is passed on to renters.

<comment><USER9> Landlords are going to charge market rate for rent. They won't charge a lower rent if their property taxes are lower than they should be due to prop 13 and won't charge a lower rent if they are deducting mortgage interest.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> stop stirring the generational warfare pot. boomers didnt ruin the economy, the banking class did. the solution to fixing it isn't kicking working-class people out of their homes. why should they sell if they enjoy where they live? and even if they did sell, where would they go? if there's a housing shortage, they'll have just as much trouble as everyone else buying a house -- if not more, because of ageism.

we need to fix the perverse incentives capitalism provides that discourage building enough housing. blaming old people accomplishes nothing.

<comment><USER12> If you read the article, it certainly isn't too sympathetic to the millenial home-seeker. It is mostly neutral to both the buying and selling side. At one point they almost paint him as a hipster by describing what he's wearing - which includes a Schlitz belt buckle. They also raise questions of gentrification.

<comment><USER13> I disagree. The tone seems very sympathetic to the home-seeker. I got a "hard- working, salt-of-the-earth carpenter white kid hustles to attain the American dream." While old, prickly, angry black people jealously hold onto their homes. And by the way, for balance, an Italian guys feels the same way. This article sucked.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> REO or real estate owned is the term for a bank holding a property. A bank is exempt from paying municipal property taxes so they try to hold them until the market rises. If a bank ever sells a foreclosed property they must recognize the difference between the original loan and the sale. A loss factors in to how they must calculate the banks solvency. They have no incentive to put property on the market other than the maintenance fees.

This article seems to be trying to stir the pot of generational warfare. A better Target would be empty houses that banks won't sell at market prices.

[http://www.realtytrac.com/statsandtrends/foreclosuretrends/](http://www.realtytrac.com/statsandtrends/foreclosuretrends/)

<comment><USER15> False. Once a bank acquires title to a property they are legally liable for the property tax. Local governments can (and have) foreclose on REO properties for failure to pay property tax.

<comment><USER16> That's right. Bank-foreclosed properties are big old liabilities that they want off their balance sheets ASAP. Unless the mortgages were extremely underwater, there's no real incentive for the bank to hold on to them.

<comment><USER14> It's called marked to market. They will hold properties rather than recognize the loss when it sells for less than the original loan.

This article proves that banks used the homestead exemption to avoid property tax: [http://jacksonville.com/business/real- estate/2011-01-30/stor...](http://jacksonville.com/business/real- estate/2011-01-30/story/how-banks-are-enjoying-homestead-exemption)

<comment><USER15> Using the homestead exemption isn't avoiding property tax. It's legally allowed for any owner who meets the criteria. The banks do still have to pay the property tax; the exemption only lowers the taxable value.

<comment><USER16> Well, it is "tax avoidance," which is completely legal. It's just not "tax evasion," or any kind of special exemption.

<comment><USER15> Tax "avoidance" usually implies exploiting some sort of unintended loophole in a tricky way that doesn't necessarily generate much economic value. In this case the homestead exemption is specifically and explicitly allowed. There's really nothing being avoided.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> The tone of this article is terrible. It's blaming old people for not wanting to sell their homes they've paid off. The whole point of mortgaging a home purchase is the hopes that one day, when you're old, you'll have it paid off and you can chill. I'm sad I gave this piece a click. It may encourage the author to keep doing journalism.

</comment><comment><USER17> The population is ageing, so it would be surprising if the share of houses owned by older people wasn't rising. The population has risen by a hundred million since the seventies, which may well have increased competition for houses. It's possible owner-occupiers refuse to sell because they enjoy having somewhere to live.

<comment><USER18> That's fine if they refuse to sell, but as the article points out, there's an enormous demand for homes.

Several of the people mentioned in the article own more than one property and are entirely unwilling to sell.

<comment><USER7> Would you sell in their place? They have no reason to sell. They are acting as rational participants of the market.

<comment><USER19> I'd have a price I'd sell at - maybe a high price, but a price. "If you gave me a bag of money, I wouldn't sell" speaks to some deeper market disfunction.

<comment><USER7> But those millennials don't have bags of money. So you would just sell to some foreign investor or domestic wealthy person who probably already owns dozens of properties.

"If you gave me a bag of money, I wouldn't sell" shouldn't be taken literally. If you offered 10 million dollars for 1 million dollar property I'm sure many of those baby boomers would sell.

<comment><USER19> > "If you gave me a bag of money, I wouldn't sell" shouldn't be taken > literally. If you offered 10 million dollars for 1 million dollar property > I'm sure many of those baby boomers would sell.

The context seems to imply something deeper than that, a complete non-interest in selling:

> "Give me $2 million," the homeowner replies. "I don't want no low number."

> It turns out the price is for the whole block. Even then, the potential > seller has second thoughts.

> "I wouldn't sell even if you gave me $2 million — this is my retirement," he > says. "If you gave me a bag of money, I wouldn't sell."

<comment><USER7> What if he values his property at more than $2 million? So he said "I wouldn't sell even if you gave me $2 million" because he was insulted by low ball offer of 200k.

<comment><USER19> > What if he values his property at more than $2 million?

Then surely he'd've said so - he could've said "no, 3 million". Instead he says his price is 2 million, then decides he wouldn't sell even for that. There's something else going on there.

<comment><USER7> Maybe. But what if the something else is he just likes his house and doesn't want to sell. He has enough money to cover his retired lifestyle cost and he enjoys living in his house.

There's nothing wrong with that. In free market you are free not to sell your property even if somebody offers you 100x it's market value. Nobody can force you to sell if you want to keep it.

And besides the millennial guy from the article couldn't afford $2 million anyways (he wants to spend 200k) so that question was pointless anyways because even if the old person said yes he doesn't have the cash.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> I'm at a loss why anyone is expected to sell their home.

<comment><USER16> The expectation is more that there should be a functioning residential real estate market. There isn't in many locations due to lack of supply.

<comment><USER21> The focus of the article is still strange though - who knocks on doors to try to convince someone to sell their home? I just took a look at Trulia at the neighborhood the man in the article was looking at - plenty of homes in the $200k - $300k range, a few even less.

Seems he is just a bargain hunter who is trying to beat the real estate market rather than participate in it. If he wants to buy a home he should pay the market price for where he wants to live or find a cheaper place to live, of which there are many within just a few miles of his desired location.

<comment><USER16> I guess a guy going door to door is more "interesting" than someone saying "we've been looking at Zillow and Trulia for 6 months and not finding anything."

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> It's more than just stubborness.

1) As others have mentioned, many people look forward to paying off their mortgage and gaining an instant monthly cash benefit from that.

2) Those who sell into an up market will probably have to buy into an up market. This causes problems with more than just money -- imagine a situation where a seller is a week from closing their house without a contract on a new house. They've become a landlord's wet dream.

3) Property tax relief for older people isn't just an expression of political might / parasitism -- it's a reasonable accommodation to the reality of fixed incomes.

But we might have some opportunities here. Maybe more building designed for older people might break the housing logjam.

1) Older people, retirees more accurately, don't NEED to live close to jobs. Close to hospitals, maybe, or family, but not jobs.

2) Older people probably don't drive as much, so the need to upgrade road capacity isn't as pressing.

3) Older people frequently have needs that require extensive rework of their current homes.

<comment><USER7> Why would old people voluntarily move out of their nice old houses and move to some remote lower quality house?

<comment><USER22> Excellent question. The product would have to be compelling to entice older people to move. And generally speaking, what we have come to know as "the projects" have a reputation for as petri dishes for crime and other social ills. I'm guessing a "project" inhabited with older people might avoid that stigma.

Moreover, it might thwart the NIMBYs who protest every proposed development in ways that ordinary projects wouldn't (what, you don't like old people??? AARP, aux barracades!) So at least it stands a better chance of being built.

Not claiming that personal experience is data, but I live in a neighboorhood that emails everyone every time city hall has a proposed project on their docket. And those who show up voice the usual objections - traffic, other infrastructure concerns, "quality of life" issues -- essentially telling potential newcomers to move somewhere else.

Having said all that, I myself am a couple of decades from official retirement age, but my GF and I wanted to move to a house that had no stairs. Talk about a housing shortage! That requirement alone filtered out about 90% of the available housing in my target area.

So there might be an opportunity, though what form it would take, who knows?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> Interesting. I'm 56 years old and cashed out some tech equities to buy 6 rental properties with low interest rate mortgages.

<comment><USER24> I personally have a problem with this. Sure sitting on your arse and enjoying the income is a good thing, but in a situation where there is a housing shortage, it is definitely a scummy thing to do. Each to their own of course.

I am so tired of seeing the government line "supply and demand". Maybe if people weren't allowed to own 30 homes simply because they existed before an incredible housing boom there wouldn't be so much of a problem.

<comment><USER7> It's not scummy at all. I would do the same thing if I had the capital. And logically, older people will have access to more capital than young people so they will scoop up houses and rent them out.

It's rational in current market and conditions. To make this less appealing you need to change legislature, increase interest rates etc.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> There are other reasons as well not mentioned in the article but perhaps more troublesome. Occupational licensing for those who have not retired may mean picking and moving to another locale would incur costs of obtaining new licensing to practice their trade. This can differ even on a county by county basis.

The other is government aid, think Medicaid an similar. This can vary by state and even at the city level benefits can change so the risk could be a lower standard of living even after being flush with funds from a good sale.

So young people are not only up against regressive regulation preventing some from moving but the abuse of land-use regulation which blocks more people from coming in.

</comment><comment><USER26> There's a huge logical fallacy in this debate that is constantly overlooked (or suppressed) ... it's that the older houses owned by these boomers tend to get converted into rentals. When they do get sold, the amount of work needed to get them livable is just too much. So they go to local "Property Management Companies (PMCs) looking to up their rental income portfolio while simultaneously making the supply artificially scarce.

Here's their typical MO:

1) Buy the house from the boomer. 2) Put the cheapest shiny sheen over the decrepit and crumbling bones of an aging house, hiding as best as possible infrastructure problems. 3) Put the house back on the market as a "remodel". Use a realtor or some other salesperson to create a false sense of scarcity and urgency related to the perception of "supply / demand", thus increasing the "market value" of the house. Create bidding wars among individuals and private REITs/landlord companies. 4) End up selling it to another private REIT (whose pocketbooks are bottomless) and set the base rent of the hyperinflated value of the house accordingly, thus increasing market rents.

In reality, of course, the house is actually crap, needs tons of work, is constantly experiencing electrical or plumbing issues. The renters, though, have no recourse as they've already signed a year-long lease trapping them in the company's investment. Sometimes a family does end up buying the "remodel" only to discover that the work has been done shoddily and to hide flaws rather than to extend longevity.

It sucks and is evil on about every level. But nobody is reporting it: regional news stations and newspapers won't let investigative journalists expose the fraud either... because the "real estate" section is their lifeblood in terms of ad revenue.

<comment><USER27> > 2) Put the cheapest shiny sheen over the decrepit and crumbling bones of an > aging house, hiding as best as possible infrastructure problems

There is a good reason for this, we deal with it in Toronto. The permit you need to do a tear-down and rebuild will cost you as much as the materials for the house and there will be huge delays in acquiring the permit. If the red tape wasn't so burdensome, we could rip down these garbage, post-WW2 matchboxes and build modern housing.

</comment></comment><comment><USER28> I wonder if longer term this current trend of "desirable" places becoming more and more expensive will ruin them and currently cheaper places will become desirable? What made those areas desirable in the first place? Can those places stay desirable if they contain only old rich people? What's fun about a NYC without kookie artists?

</comment><comment><USER29> Come to Detroit! I'm sure we can find a house for you.

<comment><USER30> Baltimore too. Housing is affordable and there are a good number of tech jobs due to the government presence.

</comment></comment><comment><USER31> How can people who aren't participating in a market be said to be "dominating" it?

<comment><USER7> I think they meant baby boomers own majority of prime real estate. Bunch of old people sitting in big family houses with 5 bedrooms. That's the problem. So yes, technically they are not participating in the market.

<comment><USER20> Why are people living in their homes a 'problem'?

<comment><USER7> Because there isn't enough real estate for millennials so they stay living with their parents until 35.

I agree with you, there's nothing wrong with people living in houses they purchased decades ago. It's their private property.

So it's a problem for young people. Nothing they can do to change that easily though.

<comment><USER32> Why are people living with their parents a 'problem'?

<comment><USER7> Main reason would be that for most people it would be difficult to start a family like that. If both parents and their millennial children are living together the house must be packed, no more space for new generation.

<comment><USER30> Not if it's a 5 bedroom house, as stated above.

<comment><USER7> Change 5 to 3. It was just an arbitrary number to make a point old people are living in places and have spare bedrooms. Not all old people so parents of the guy in the article might not have extra room in their place?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER33> Anecdotally, my neighborhood has 115 homes. No sales in 2 years. No homes listed at the moment.

Average age of owners is about 55.

<comment><USER12> Which neighborhood, or at least, which region of the US?

<comment><USER33> Silicon Valley.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER34> I'm not sure how this is even a real problem. Try a different neighborhood. I've never had a problem finding a house to buy and I've never heard anyone say that's an issue.

Everything has a price, I guarantee one of those people would sell, given the right offer.

There are many homes for sale in that area also, just not the less than 200k he wants to pay: [https://www.zillow.com/homes/Brewerytown,-Philadelphia_rb/](https://www.zillow.com/homes/Brewerytown,-Philadelphia_rb/)</comment>


Visual programming language Max Msp now exports to C++ - <AUTHOR> http://cycling74.com/products/gen/codeexport/

<comment><AUTHOR> tl;dr - This offers a fantastic means for Audio Unit/VST developers to prototype and even export working code.

One amazing thing (among others):

<comment><AUTHOR> In the future: \- You want to program visually and get output as source code for use in other programs which you are working on as a developer</comment></comment>


Henry Ford's Minimum Viable Product - <AUTHOR> https://twitter.com/History_Pics/status/404626105438855170 <comment><AUTHOR> _The earliest cars were hand built, one by one, and very expensive. The peculiar machines were seen as toys for the rich._

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Quadricycle](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Quadricycle)</comment>


Ask HN: Skill diversity on HN? - <AUTHOR>

What are various certified skills you have and what certifications do you have? In addition, Please list the skills where you have reasonable expertise but certifications are not there.<p>Idea is to know the skill diversity on HN. Thanks. <comment><USER2> I know how to love, although I am awaiting recognition by the appropriate professional trade association.

</comment><comment><USER3> Fellow of the Society of Actuaries</comment>


Microsoft – InstaLoad Battery Installation Technology - <AUTHOR> http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/mouseandkeyboard/licensing/instaloadoverview.mspx

<comment><USER3> Can't we just admire the simplicity of this without starting all the MS- bashing? PLEASE?

Seriously, this is ridiculous. Whatever this is, it _is_ an improvement over the current style. Hell, you know what, _label_ the battery slots with an arbitrary direction if you're so worried about "confusing the user" - and then work in other ways, too.

But all this hating is completely out-of-line with the hacker/engineer spirit. How hard is it to just _appreciate_ a nifty hack when you see it? No matter who it comes from?

<comment><USER4> While this is great design in isolation from the rest of the world, it will only add more confusion _unless it is ubiquitous_.

Currently you just have to look for labels like + and - in the battery slot, and with such devices there may be no such labels at all, or instead some text that says "put batteries any way you want", or, even worse, some cryptic graphic that attempts to say it. More processing power required != good.

Disclaimer: not a Microsoft hater, just my thoughts.

<comment><USER3> My point is, go ahead and put in the current +/- sign. On the box, packaging, site, manual, whatever you can talk about how it'll actually work in any way.

Those that look for the +/- will find it. Those that misread it or are too thick to understand it will put them in wrong _and your device will still work_. And those that saw the cool picture on your device's package will play around with it and test different ways then say "waaaaay cool!"

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> This is interesting, but will it work in practice? It seems that this merely relies on the little bump on the plus side of a battery to differentiate between the positive and negative end. But this would make the clearances very small, so I am not sure it will work in practice with different batteries and people jamming them in and out, etc.

</comment><comment><USER6> This is so obvious, simple and powerful. Bravo Microsoft!

I wish they could rent out Jonathan Ive to show the world how brilliant it is. 63 years of people struggling to read scratches on plastic have past before someone focused on how to make this common but not-often task better. I can't wait to see it deployed in devices.

"The AA battery size was standardized by ANSI in 1947 but had been used in miniature flashlights and electrical novelties for some time before formal standardization." - <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AA_battery>

<comment><USER7> I thought Ive worked for Apple?

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> Interesting that it's a mechanical design and not an electronic solution, which was my first intuition.

One interesting thought: is the lack of battery installation diagram going to cause consternation in consumers who are by now very accustomed to battery installation diagrams?

<comment><USER9> That was the first thing which came to my mind as well. I thought they've probably got a bridge of schottky diodes for every battery. The mechanical design makes it seem very elegant.If it were a schottky bridge, it'll still have a forward drop of ~0.3 - 0.45 volts, which is pretty big for 1.5 volts batteries.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> While this does do away with one more modal interface in side-by-side battery arrangements, judging only by the pictures, it looks extremely shock- sensitive. It would seem suitable for office/home use as long as it's not in a small child's toy or something like an RC car.

Additionally, "idiot-proof" mechanical contacts like this are commonplace, going as far back as '80s, in high-amp "industrial" battery chargers.

</comment><comment><USER11> As Seth Godin once said, the layout of batteries is broken and the obvious solution is to _very simply_ rearrange the wires so that both batteries face the same way. Have a gigantic + and - to indicate the correct direction. There's no need to add all the extra parts so the batteries can fit both ways and label the solution InstaLoad.

See: [http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4101280286098310645...](http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4101280286098310645&hl=en#)

</comment><comment><USER12> I don't think this is a completely new idea. Few year ago I saw something similar in my pocket radio. It looks different though.

I see similar concept in Minolta Z3. It's used for protection only though - placing batteries in wrong position just disconnects the circuit.

</comment><comment><USER13> I'm very surprised there's no prior art here. It seems like something I've seen before, although I can't think of any specific examples. (I've definitely seen old flashlights designed for those big square 6V lantern batteries so that, as long as you put the thing in with the contacts facing up, they would always work...)

If there's no prior art in the wild, then my tendency is to wonder why not -- I find it pretty hard to believe the guys at Microsoft are the first to think of this. I wonder if some poorly-manufactured batteries would short out the contacts, and that's why other designers have shied away from doing it?

<comment><USER14> It seems like something you've seen before, because it is. There are lots of devices that require batteries to be inserted.

Perhaps there's no prior art, because it's an unobvious advancement to battery technology. Is that so hard to believe? Why do you find it hard to believe the guys at Microsoft were the first to think of it? They create lots of battery operated devices like mice and keyboards and microsoft has a ton of geniuses working for them to boot.

I've never seen anything like this before. I wish all batteries were as easy to insert as this invention makes them.

<comment><USER15> I'm sure the guys working on Microsoft hardware are a brilliant bunch. I have no doubt that they possess the ability to come up with this type of innovation. The part that amazes me is that with all the other engineers that have worked hard to design battery enclosures no one had thought of this yet. It's so simple. Brilliant, but simple.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> I have to wonder - with how many different types of AA or AAA cells did they test it?

I have seen a huge variety of different ones and I am not sure none of them will short the terminals and ruin the other battery in the process.

</comment><comment><USER17> This is definitely one of those usability things that Microsoft is oh-so- famous for like this:

[http://www.joelonsoftware.com/uibook/chapters/fog0000000059....](http://www.joelonsoftware.com/uibook/chapters/fog0000000059.html)

Basically by trying to make it simpler, they're making it harder. Not only do you have one more part to break, but the first question people immediately ask when opening up a battery compartment is "which way do I insert the batteries?"

Now, there is going to need to be a disclaimer stating clearly that they don't need to put them in any particular way. Next, the user is going to be forced to digest this message. Then, with some unease, put the batteries in without regard to their direction, despite the fact that the hundreds of other times they've used batteries they've had to do this.

Microsoft has introduced another branch in the decision tree: "does this device require I insert batteries in a certain direction?" To answer this, I still will probably have to rely upon information printed on the device, since remembering which device fits this criteria will likely not be memory I can trust since I change batteries rarely. (And, if I mis-remember it, I could break an expensive device, so I will have to check to be sure.)

So, what Microsoft in the end is saving here is _not_ the need to check the indicator on the device. It's still necessary for me to check until the entire world uses this in every device. All they've done is make it so I don't have to physically rotate the battery in my hand (50% of the time :)) after doing so.

Additionally, troubleshooting now becomes harder if the device does not turn on. If it doesn't turn on, are the batteries dead, the device broken, _or_ did the magical asymmetric battery compartment break?

<comment><USER18> Disruptive isn't always such a bad thing. Give them some credit for coming up with an idea a lot of people will wonder why they never thought of.

<comment><USER17> A much better idea would be to come up with a battery compartment shaped in such a manner that the direction the batteries go is _self evident_. This means the user does not have to make any additional decisions. This is a technology hammer applied to a problem that requires a different type of fix. The user now has to make an additional mental leap. It is not simplifying the world for people, despite what it does at first glance. It's making it at worst harder at best no harder than it is now.

<comment><USER19> All compartments (I could find around me) have the spring which holds the battery on the flat side of the battery... thats the indicator I use, without searching and reading any tiny diagrams

<comment><USER17> See, there you go. This was never a problem. Microsoft is trading the time you spend rotating the battery with your hand for time in which you have to read the damn instructions on the device.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> I was kind of disappointed that it wasn't an active voltage-sensing solution. If it works well with all batteries (even cheap ones) then I guess it's a good hack though.

</comment><comment><USER21> It would take me way too long to stop looking for the +/- instructions to insert the batteries in the first place. This would only confuse most people who already know how to insert batteries. I have never had any sort of problem, nor have I found inserting batteries a non-intuitive action. Until all batteries can be inserted in a haphazard style, this does not solve a problem.

<comment><USER22> Maybe they can also invent a new symbol you can learn which indicates that it doesn't matter how you put the batteries in.

</comment></comment><comment><USER23> Faced with this problem my first reaction would have been to simply make the battery diagram more legible and high contrast but this is a bit more elegant. Maybe there's a language barrier here too. Is the classic -/+ diagram widely understood around the world?

<comment><USER24> Some people seem to be unable to get the batteries in the right way reliably. My wife (masters in a science from a top N university) has a significant failure rate on battery changing. Not having to worry about it would be better.

Maybe we could liken it to polarized plugs (for those of us in 110v AC land). We could have labeled plugs with + and -, and then told people to match them to the outlet when they plugged in a device, but over all, redesigning the equipment was more likely to work.

<comment><USER25> I think everyone should stop prefacing personal assessments of people by quoting their credentials first (MSc/PhD from a top X university), as I feel it should have absolutely no bearing on how intelligent one perceives them to be. I've met some seriously incompetent grad students, and they all seem to get their degrees in the end regardless.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> Wait, if Apple can make an Ethernet port that works in either normal or crossover mode, why can't Microsoft make a non-fragile battery solution?

<comment><USER27> Well, Apple made auto-crossover NICs by buying auto-crossover NICs from Sun. The important part was that nobody _else_ did that.

Seems like you should be able to just handle batteries put in either way, though.

</comment></comment><comment><USER28> cool, it doesn't care........... wait... on second thought the only time I've hit the problem this solves is when a device has poorly labeled the contacts.

Pretty sure this is more expensive/waste of components versus a big clear [+] icon on one side.

Guess it could help devices for the blind?

Or devices where you have to _throw_ the batteries in from a distance :)

</comment><comment><USER29> That is a very clever idea, simple and sweet. Too bad it's patented.

</comment><comment><USER30> This will cause greater confusion than Apple's one-way both-batteries style, or even how most devices are now (through conditioning). I hope they have a good way of explaining "any direction is fine". I would stare at it in disbelief for a few moments.

<comment><USER31> Maybe, but have you thought that it's not because there is something wrong with the invention, but rather because you have been trained so far in your life to look for the +ve and -ve terminals.

If this catches on, in a few years maybe people will get so used to this that the current way of doing things will seem oh-so-primitive.

This seems like a classic disruptive technology, so simple but so useful.

<comment><USER32> Of course you have been trained, but what about the fun factor? I mean people love to fit, insert things into other things and feel they fit. Kids feel good when they insert a cube block inside the square hole.

USB cables and Apple batteries design are very good in this regard. No need to look at symbols. It gives you instant sensitive feedback. I'm highly kinesthetic so that is brilliant design for me and a lot of people. Like blind people.

<comment><USER33> USB plugs/sockets are awful. Sure, you can't insert them the wrong way round, but visually it's hard to see which way round is the right way without trial and error. The position of the USB symbol is supposed to help, and does to some extent.

USB plugs should either work successfully inserted both ways round (like this battery system), or be asymmetrical (and even with asymmetrical plugs, things can get annoying when you cant get a clear look at a socket - eg SCART + the backs of AV equipment)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER34> This can pose some serious problems if the device gets spoilt at some time. However, Microsoft has done an excellent work in creating this totally innovative and ingenious solution to a problem which was more like a way of life than a problem.

</comment><comment><USER35> Nice hack, but come on, do they really have to license it? What´s next Instaload toilet paper, egg pans, swimming goggles, socks?

</comment><comment><USER36> This is all fine until kids grow up with a few devices that don't care - <USER2> they get a device that's not willing to pay the royalties so the kids try to shove the batteries in the wrong way anyway and damage the device.

Aren't people getting a mini-science lesson to learn +/- anyway?

What happens the first time the kid needs to jump start his car?

</comment><comment><USER37> Would this just be a full wave bridge rectifier?

I used to do that (4 diodes) for batteries AND powersupplies when I built my own guitar effects board power source. I was tired of either putting things in the wrong way and either a) not working or b) frying some electrolytic capacitor (if was a high current supply).

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diode_bridge>

Seriously - is it just that or did they find a way to make it have low enough resistance to put in every device ?

<comment><USER22> It would be if you don't RTFA.

<comment><USER37> Yes i probably should have. But I am annoyed that I have broken enough electronics that rectifiers weren't always part of it (but that is unrelated to batteries).

Fwiw in the apple magic mouse you can only mechanically out them in one way.

<comment><USER22> Besides the advantage of being passive and cheap, this solution also avoids the voltage drop of diodes.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Stripe was down - <AUTHOR> https://status.stripe.com/ <comment><USER2> I work at Stripe. We're back up now. Your customers can safely retry any failed payments. We'll post a public postmortem over the next few days with more information.

If you need any help, please drop us a line at email@example.com (and feel free to CC me; I'm email@example.com).

<comment><USER3> thanks for the responsiveness.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> "Elevated error rates" is now status page speak for "shit is totally down". Amazon does the same thing with a small note next to a green check when their api is also broken. I wonder what hellscape on earth would be necessary for amazon to drop to a red icon.

<comment><USER5> It happened during the DynamoDB outages but only for some subservices.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> What I'm about to say is definitely NOT IN ANY SENSE Schadenfreude, but...

I get really excited when amazing services we've come to take for granted goes down. I'd put places like Amazon, Netflix, Gmail, etc in this category. The reason? Well, I really really look forward to reading the post-mortems and getting a sneak-peek at the inner workings of said services.

<comment><USER7> Don't be so excited! Maybe they just dropped another DB index and the guy who did it still has no visibility into the actual DB load.

[https://support.stripe.com/questions/outage- postmortem-2015-...](https://support.stripe.com/questions/outage- postmortem-2015-10-08-utc)

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> At the time of writing, this post is 11 minutes old, but the status page says they have been down for 5.

Hmm!

<comment><USER9> I think generally when every alarm bell in your monitoring system goes off the first thing you do is question whether monitoring is broken. When you confirm there is a problem this big, you panic and try to fix it really fast. Then you call your other on-call guys and tell them you actually have an "oh, shit" situation.

Once you recognize there's a serious problem, THEN you make the public announcement. Ah, the life of ops.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> For payment processing, I've built in a system which uses stripe (credit cards only) and bitcoin (using a different API. But that is only to detect whether payment has received. If the API is down, the detection of payments can still be done manually thanks to the fact that the bitcoin network is decentralized).

I never rely on a single point of failure. And of course, always good to have a "plan B" in place.

</comment><comment><USER11> all services are back online

</comment><comment><USER12> Grinch's XMAS DDOS blackmail?

</comment><comment><USER13> No better time than Christmas to have your payment platform go down :(. I can't imagine the clusterfuck at the Stripe offices atm. Overnighters ahoy!</comment>


Amazon: Notice of Termination due to New California Law - <AUTHOR>

Hello, Unfortunately, Governor Brown has signed into law the bill that we emailed you about earlier today. As a result of this, contracts with all California residents participating in the Amazon Associates Program are terminated effective today, June 29, 2011. Those California residents will no longer receive advertising fees for sales referred to Amazon.com, Endless.com, MYHABIT.COM or SmallParts.com. Please be assured that all qualifying advertising fees earned before today will be processed and paid in full in accordance with the regular payment schedule.
You are receiving this email because our records indicate that you are a resident of California. If you are not currently a resident of California, or if you are relocating to another state in the near future, you can manage the details of your Associates account here. And if you relocate to another state in the near future please contact us for reinstatement into the Amazon Associates Program.
To avoid confusion, we would like to clarify that this development will only impact our ability to offer the Associates Program to California residents and will not affect your ability to purchase from Amazon.com, Endless.com, MYHABIT.COM or SmallParts.com.
We have enjoyed working with you and other California-based participants in the Amazon Associates Program and, if this situation is rectified, would very much welcome the opportunity to re-open our Associates Program to California residents. As mentioned before, we are continuing to work on alternative ways to help California residents monetize their websites and we will be sure to contact you when these become available.
Regards,
The Amazon Associates Team <comment><USER2> Affiliate School Of Hard Knocks 101 - You better diversify, or you're coasting on thin ice.

</comment><comment><USER3> "Dear Pawn, ..."

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> Officially ended.</comment>


They Tried to Start a Church Without God. For a While, It Worked - <AUTHOR> https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/07/secular-churches-rethink-their-sales-pitch/594109/ <comment><AUTHOR> This general area has always been the interesting to me. Historically, people often think of society divided into "estates." A medieval take was to see these in class-ish terms: peasantry, nobility and clergy, for example.

In modern terms, we might think of it terms of methods of organisation, or organization types. We have governments, our biggest organisations. Religions still exist and are substantial. But, the culturally dominant type are corporations. It's corporate culture that tends to be mimicked.

The big modern difference is that these are not exclusive. You participate in corporate organisations, democracy & such.

In any case, I suspect that developing healthy diversity of estates is important. There are "jobs" that's church or church-like organisation will do better than a corporation or government body. The formula is elusive though.

When Louise Theroux researched Scientology, he spoke a lot to ex- scientologists. Many still believed in Scientology (especially at the start), they just wanted out of the"church." The plan was to "do Scientology" without the extreme stuff. Louise commented that it seemed to devolve to a "self help" group, too banal to be substantial.

Organized religion is ultimately interesting. It's been with us for a long time, had a lot of influence. I'd like to think there's continuity, without a supernatural basis.</comment>


Ask Me Anything: Dynamic Memory Networks for Natural Language Processing - <AUTHOR> http://arxiv.org/abs/1506.07285 <comment><USER2> Such an interesting paper that I came across just now from a tweet.

Are there any other papers around DMN for Q&A, or particularly other use cases of DMN?

<comment> bra-ket see [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_learning#Memory_networks](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_learning#Memory_networks)

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> I skimmed through, but I can't see any radically different from Facebook's Memory Networks. Anyone else see a big difference?

<comment> bra-ket using gated recurrent net + temporal context

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Took me a while to understand "Ask Me Anything", I thought it was AMA from author.</comment>


A Guide to Undefined Behavior in C and C++ (2010) - <AUTHOR> http://blog.regehr.org/archives/213 <comment><USER2> > undefined behavior in C/C++ is that it simplifies the compiler's job, making > it possible to generate very efficient code in certain situations.

I've been growing more skeptical of this claim over time. First, more evidence would be nice instead of "some loops". What is a program (not a benchmark) that has an observable performance difference when compiled with and without -fwrap?

Second, it seems counter productive. The word is now out that if you use signed ints, the compiler is going to fuck you over. So now everybody is (or should be) using unsigned ints, and whatever optimization the compiler was performing, now it can't. A lot of grief for no progress.

<comment><USER3> > I've been growing more skeptical of this claim over time. First, more > evidence would be nice instead of "some loops". What is a program (not a > benchmark) that has an observable performance difference when compiled with > and without -fwrap?

Google brings up this old message. It seems to affect the SPEC2000 suite fairly badly. SPEC2000 mostly measures real applications, such as gzip, and is not a series of microbenchmarks.

[http://www.archivum.info/autoconf- firstname.lastname@example.com/2007-01/00...](http://www.archivum.info/autoconf- email@example.com/2007-01/00027/Re:-changing-quot-configure-quot-to-default-to- quot-gcc-g-O2-fwrapv-...-quot.html)

<comment><USER2> Interesting, though I still wonder to what extent this is a result of optimizations chasing SPEC. Alternatively, could similar optimizations be made to work with defined behavior? (How will rust fair with "less undefined" behavior?) As I mentioned, it's kind of crazy that I might substantially impair the performance of gzip by changing a few ints to unsigned.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Fyi... Chris Lattner (LLVM, Apple Inc) wrote some companion articles on the same topic and refers to these John Regehr posts.

[http://blog.llvm.org/2011/05/what-every-c-programmer- should-...](http://blog.llvm.org/2011/05/what-every-c-programmer-should- know.html)

</comment><comment><USER5> Isn't complaining that (INT_MAX + 1) is undefined the same as complaining that (8/0) is undefined? What meaningful functionality could be gained by defining overflow behavior? If you really want to know what INT_MAX + 1 is, try:

printf("INT_MAX+1= %lld\n", (long long)INT_MAX + 1LL);

<comment><USER6> I'm only speaking for my personal preferences here.

My two problems with undefined behavior is that 1) it is not always obvious that your program is guilty of undefined behavior and 2) when a C program contains undefined behavior the compiler can generate surprising machine code.

I don't have any problem with 8/0 being undefined mathematically, but I do have a problem with a C compiler generating code that will delete my hard drive if it ever occurs (an unlikely but theoretically possible for a conforming C compiler).

INT_MAX + 1 is problematic because most people expect wrap around (and in fact they may be using a compiler that does this). It's more problematic because UINT_MAX + 1 does get wrap around. And finally there's a bunch of difficult to remember auto integer conversion rules. Taken together it's not surprising that many people will find it difficult to determine if their integer usage is correct.

One solution is of course to use a safer language than C (where I unfortunately have to end up). But I personally object to the idea that you _have_ to have undefined behavior in order to get the performance of C (waiting to see how the development of languages like Rust goes to determine if I'm right).

<comment><USER5> There exists an enormous body body of reliable and fast code written in "C" (e.g. the Linux kernel). I've been coding in C for 27 years, C++ for 20. I think the idea that a language can permit only useful work to occur is naive. In order to code well, the programmer must understand how the computer works, and have a great deal of focus. If you have those, "helpful" languages only seem to get in the way.</comment></comment></comment>


China bans new Bitcoin deposits - <AUTHOR> http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/6707013a-67af-11e3-8ada-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2noKo4XIN <comment><USER2> I present, for your satisfaction, my comment from two weeks ago: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6829180](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6829180)

Along with this gem: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6858258](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6858258)

In summary, I invested $11k @ $1106/coin, predicting it'd rise to $1,500.

Shazam! I've transmuted that $11k into... let's see ... $5,100.

I feel pretty ill. Thought you'd all enjoy the schadenfreude, and perhaps learn from my example: "How to ignore Sam Altman and lose more than half your money."

[http://blog.samaltman.com/thoughts-on- bitcoin](http://blog.samaltman.com/thoughts-on-bitcoin)

EDIT: I'm holding onto my coins. But, now that China is strongly incentivized _not_ to invest in Bitcoin, it's going to be a very slow climb back to $1106. And at the end of that long road (I'd say at least several months, but what the hell do I know, right?) I get to look forward to: "Yay. I've lost $0. I've also gained $0."

EDIT2: Oh, nope! It just fell from $520 to $500. So, at current market prices, my $11k is now $4,780. Of course, we've all seen bitcion dip and quickly rise again. It's just very... interesting... to me that within the timespan of writing a HN comment, I'm down another $320.

Yes. Interesting. That's the word. I'm _interested_. In learning from my mistakes.

FYI, that -$5,900 was enough to pay off my car loan in its entirety, or all of my (admittedly small, relatively speaking) credit card debt.

Oh well. I'm going to go build a product and sell it now.

EDIT3: The market rose from $500 to $540, so that means I've earned back $474! And since my last edit was an hour ago, that must mean I'm earning $474/hr writing HN comments in my pajamas! Why hold down a programming job when you can write HN comments fulltime for 4x the wage? Quit tomorrow, sell everything you own, and invest it all in bitcoin immediately!

<comment><USER3> I anticipate your feelings being quite widespread. I only had $200 in them after cashing out, but I've still felt terrible when the price drops. It's rather odd. This is the first time I have ever participated in an actual exchange market with volatility and all. I built a trading bot, and was making a couple of dollars a day trading my 0.17 BTC. A few weeks ago I was feeling suicidal based on not buying some a couple of years ago when it was $10. My family has been having a rough time, and I kept thinking that I had missed my chance to pull us out of the hole we are in.

This is a crazy and interesting time to live in, and I'm glad I'm still here even if Bitcoin didn't make me rich.

<comment><USER4> U.S.A. Suicide Hotline 1-800-273-TALK (8255). Remember, it's just money.

<comment><USER5> I love when people just like that are assuming that _everything_ has to happen in U.S.A. and that world around it doesnt exist ;)

<comment><USER6> Your comment is only valid because that's a 1-800 number. 1-800 numbers are free to call in the USA, which is why many people have them, but their downside is that you can't call them from outside the USA.

Upon first discovering SIP addresses and that everybody on earth could have an email style phone number that would be free to call, I have been waiting and waiting for the world to transition to SIP addresses instead of phone numbers.

If such a thing occurs, someday, then publishing a phone address from one country will not be a problem. I'm sure the folks at the suicide hotline would gladly take calls from anywhere in the world, if they could do so for free. Sadly, as things stand now, they could publish a SIP address, but nobody would know how to use it.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> ft.com, source of all amazing paywalls.

Here's the same content from a non-paywall provider: [http://www.scmp.com/business/banking- finance/article/1384688...](http://www.scmp.com/business/banking- finance/article/1384688/bitcoin-price-slump-after-beijing-bans-clearing- services)

<comment><USER8> Yeah I don't know how they get away with breaking Google's sacrosanct rule of not sticking content behind a paywall that they make visible to Google.

<comment><USER9> Anyone visiting from Google sees the full article with no paywall.

You can test this yourself:

[https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&c...](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CC8QqQIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fcms%2Fs%2F0%2F6707013a-67af-11e3-8ada-00144feabdc0.html&ei=U3mxUpaLOY- ShQfpioDYDg&usg=AFQjCNGw8dx8RLkD6od7_RmTI632CfZmpQ&sig2=YxY5zmippvgxXKbE1eFMlw&bvm=bv.58187178,d.ZG4)

<comment><USER8> Doesn't work for me. Get the sign up prompt. It may work the first time or two but after that....

<comment><USER10> That link doesn't send the right referrer for me (I also get the sign up).

If I click through from here I get a silly question and the content:

[https://www.google.com/search?q=China+bans+new+Bitcoin+depos...](https://www.google.com/search?q=China+bans+new+Bitcoin+deposits+\(ft.com\))

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> As far as I know they closed Chinese Yuan deposits. Bitcoin deposits or withdrawals are NOT affected [1].

[1] [http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1t5cfx/btcchina_clo...](http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1t5cfx/btcchina_closed_bank_deposit_as_a_way_to_deposit/)

</comment><comment><USER12> Ouch, that market crash: [http://markets.blockchain.info](http://markets.blockchain.info)

Here is another article: [http://www.scmp.com/business/banking- finance/article/1384688...](http://www.scmp.com/business/banking- finance/article/1384688/bitcoin-price-slump-after-beijing-bans-clearing- services)

<comment><USER13> There was a lot of work to keep it over 500 for a bit.

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> For serious entertainment, Bitcoin markets now are great places to try some day trading rodeo. Instant buy/sell with lots of drama and reasonable depth. Stick with your stop-loss strategy and it's a real adrenalin rush. I trade a small amount up and down and even made 40% profit for the last two weeks just by trying to catch bottoms and selling a little higher. Cheap entertainment IMO.

<comment><USER15> Same here, done OK just watching the BTCWisdom charts with a few basic indicators. Its good fun...

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> This move seems obvious. Bitcoin's popularity has far more negative consequences for Chinese government (or any other government) than benefit. Bitcoin might topple the dollar hegemony if popularized, which might be what China wants, but central banks lose their power to control the money flow in the system. Why would any government want that? Any money goes into Bitcoin is essentially money gone offline right now so it reduces tax revenue and adds noise to national statistics. Bitcoin or any other crypto-coin has real chance of adoption only when it's sponsored by government.

<comment><USER17> _" Bitcoin or any other crypto-coin has real chance of adoption only when it's sponsored by government."_

While I agree with your assertion that governments have no reason to support Bitcoin, I don't believe it follows that government sponsorship is necessary for the success of Bitcoin. I suspect most people betting on Bitcoin are aware that at some point, governments are going to act forcefully to kill Bitcoin, and the fallout will be utterly unpredictable.

But, I don't think it's something that can be put back in the bottle. We're crossing into uncharted waters here. Nothing like Bitcoin has ever happened before...so, we don't know how it's going to play out. I'm bullish even with the expectation that major world governments will collude with current financial elites to kill Bitcoin, because I suspect there is no way they can actually kill it.

<comment><USER18> > governments are going to act forcefully to kill Bitcoin, and the fallout > will be utterly unpredictable.

I don't think so. I think it's quite predictable that, if that happens, Bitcoin will lose. In the sense that it will ultimately become a cryptocurrency also-ran. Something else will probably rise to take its place after it's been bloodied, something designed to be resistant to whatever response the world's governments bring to bear.

<comment><USER17> In the same way that peer-to-peer file sharing lost?

<comment><USER18> In the same way that Napster lost. Imagine if you'd invested in that one after the mainstream noticed it.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> BTCChina closed bank deposit as a way to deposit Chinese Yuan. Right now no way to deposit CNY into the exchange:

[http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1t5cfx/btcchina_clo...](http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1t5cfx/btcchina_closed_bank_deposit_as_a_way_to_deposit/)

</comment><comment><USER20> By "ban", I assume they mean "made illegal." The former of course being a euphemism for the latter. A couple questions come to my mind as such.... How will China enforce such a ban? Can China physically or technologically bar access to Bitcoin deposits?

Regardless of the Chinese government's ability to effectively enforce such a ban, the price of Bitcoin has begun another wild (and fascinating) price fluctuation period.

</comment><comment><USER21> If your digital currency relies on governments accepting a competing currency their own currency - you are going to have a bad time.

</comment><comment><USER22> Now with this temporary crash what will happen to the farms that heavily invested in ASICS, and that with difficulty will be mining at a loss in weeks? (honest question)

<comment><USER14> What makes you say temporary?

<comment><USER22> I guess that bitcoin´s price will continue to rise steadily and reach 1000$ again in some time. Maybe years, maybe months, I don´t know.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> I see no article text here...

<comment><USER24> Try searching Google for [http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/6707013a-67af-11e3-8ada-00144...](http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/6707013a-67af-11e3-8ada-00144feabdc0.html)

If you click through from Google, you will probably see the article text.

</comment></comment><comment><USER25> An article behind paywall? I'm sorry but I'm disappointed

</comment><comment><USER26> Yes, Bitcoin dropped 40% today- but keep in mind that on any average day it swings 20%.

If you invest because you believe in the underlying technology, you'll have to ride out the volatility waves until it matures(or dies).

But, it's going to take more than people holding onto their bitcoins and waiting for the value to go up- people need to spend them on things for it to work.

<comment><USER27> 20% swings over the course of a day is not at all average, and is in fact seen as quite dramatical.

</comment></comment><comment><USER28> Well now, let's hope after all this we can find a stable price, so people can actually use this stuff as a mechanism for transferring money, though I suppose with this China crackdown it's losing some of that appeal even. I guess we're stuck with Western Union forever, nice pivot btw. Telegrams were pretty cool though.

<comment><USER29> You do know that RMB is not fully convertible right? This is just the government cracking down on a forex loophole; you can still buy bitcoin in China with your $50K/year USD exchange limit (available to all Chinese citizens, foreigners with tax receipts). Of course, you have to take a hit on forex now.

</comment></comment><comment><USER30> Why are you even posting a news site requires paid subscription? I cannot read this article!

<comment><USER9> [https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&c...](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CC8QqQIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fcms%2Fs%2F0%2F6707013a-67af-11e3-8ada-00144feabdc0.html&ei=U3mxUpaLOY- ShQfpioDYDg&usg=AFQjCNGw8dx8RLkD6od7_RmTI632CfZmpQ&sig2=YxY5zmippvgxXKbE1eFMlw&bvm=bv.58187178,d.ZG4)

</comment></comment><comment><USER31> Am I the only one whose link has "Authorized=false.html?"...?

Can't get to the article...

</comment><comment><USER32> The Chinese are just against the trend of leaking Yuan's value to Bitcoin (hence the RMB->BTC restriction), not against the Bitcoin itself. People are still free to bring value in China through Bitcoin! ;)

</comment><comment><USER33> Bitcoin is a threat to the Chinese government's control over the populace so it's not surprising to see this...

</comment><comment><USER34> Cannot read article. Paywall.

</comment><comment><USER35> Check the latest update at [http://www.cryptocurrencylive.com/](http://www.cryptocurrencylive.com/)</comment>


How a programmer reads a resume - <AUTHOR> http://stevehanov.ca/blog/index.php?id=56

<comment><USER2> Any resume that has been compiled to a PDF from LaTeX would score major points in my books. It's not that it requires an incredible amount of skill to do so (not to mention that there are quite a few templates available), but it does show that the applicant cares a bit more about presentation than the average programmer that submits his resume in .doc format.

<comment><USER3> What typestting do you need for a resume that Word doesn't provide? I've written thousands of pages in LaTex, and at one point I probably would have written my resume in LaTex. But now that I know Word, I see very little advantage to writing my resume with LaTex (I'm probably a little odd, learning LaTex before Word).

It's not like your resume is likely to have equations or need a lot of cross references in it.

<comment><USER4> It's a signalling mechanism.

<comment><USER5> Easily gamed then.

<comment><USER6> Even if it is gamed, it still proves the original point: that "the applicant cares a bit more about presentation than the average programmer that submits his resume in .doc format."

<comment><USER7> Unless he created it in LaTeX, realized it looked terrible, and decided to opt for Word/Pages instead.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> How does it look to HR or another programmer when an applicant doesn't have a Facebook account?

<comment><USER9> I'm a bit saddened by the fact that this is the second reference to HR departments looking at Facebook in this one thread. I know it happens, but wow.

<comment><USER8> I feel your sentiment. I don't use Facebook and I'm concerned about any negative implications that may have.

<comment><USER10> same for me. I'm curious when to hear that familiar _what?? you're NOT on facebook? you're sooo nineties!_ in a job interview :-)

<comment><USER9> Kudos to you both for being optimistic about it :) I was referring more to the thing where they look through your pictures, see pictures of you at a party holding a plastic cup and make silent, little judgements about it.

It only crosses my mind because I've actualy watched people get DQ'd from the call-back list with my own eyes because of photos where they weren't doing anything more than leaning in with a few close friends, clothed, acting sensible holding a bottle of Bud Light in their hand. It was actually...depressing.

<comment><USER8> The fact that people have time to do that is disturbing to me.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> One thing I'd adjust:

Knows 3 or more programming languages +5

The languages are Java, J2EE and Javascript -15

<comment><USER12> I would also like to point out the conflict between

"Has written a compiler or OS for fun +15"

and

"Has Ph.D -1"

and also wonder why having a Ph.D gets a negative mark?

<comment><USER13> Ph.D sounds good on paper but can suggest "too much time spent in academia", "not enough practical experience", "thinks awfully highly of himself, but can he make us money or do anything real?", and "is his focus even related to the job?". Or that is the general attitude I have heard.

Personally, I have a small measure of respect for the Ph.D title, but it does not sway me unless the focus matches what I need. "It's great that you solved P != NP, but can you write a financial app for this customer?"

<comment><USER12> > Personally, I have a small measure of respect for the Ph.D title, but it > does not sway me unless the focus matches what I need. "It's great that you > solved P != NP, but can you write a financial app for this customer?"

I do see that. But... well, quality PhDs aren't going to be applying for jobs that require you to do code monkey work, they'll be the ones writing new financial models, and a quick PoC in haskell.

<comment><USER14> Hah, would these be the same financial models that were used to rate sub-prime securities AAA?! :)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> Needs a mirror - he's getting hammered

<comment><USER12> site seemed ok when I loaded it just now, but here's a copy in case it goes down again:

<http://i.imgur.com/yvNQm.png>

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> This is funny and all, but any HR department worth its salt would know what it takes to get a job at its respective company. At the very very least, most HR departments these days will take a glance at Facebook.

</comment><comment><USER17> I was surprised to see PHP and ASP.NET on the same line as Rails. Is ASP.NET relevant, and would seeing PHP really inspire that much confidence?

</comment><comment><USER18> Dupe. <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=537000>

<comment><USER12> yeah... 500 days ago. So what? If you're pointing out that there's insightful discussion on that thread then fine, but just saying "Dupe" seems like you're implying this posting is bad somehow. (personally I don't really think it fits with the hackernews vibe but that's a different issue)</comment></comment>


Data stolen from 35 million South Korean social networking users - <AUTHOR> http://www.blogoholic.in/2011/07/29/data-stolen-35-million-south-korean-social-networking-users/#close=1

<comment><USER2> Entire article is copied from here:

[http://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2011/07/28/data-stolen- from-...](http://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2011/07/28/data-stolen- from-35-million-south-korean-social-networking-users/)

</comment><comment><USER3> This is extremely bad. From their resident registration numbers, their entire lives and can be exposed.

</comment><comment><USER4> 49 million people live in the country, 35 million of them have had their personal information exposed because of this internet hack.

Wow.

</comment><comment><USER5> I hope they get it back! I would be lost if my data were taken from me!</comment>


The tortured lives of "targetted individuals" - <AUTHOR> https://www.wired.com/story/mind-games-the-tortured-lives-of-targeted-individuals/ <comment><USER2> If they've been implanted with microchips or other devices, it should be trivial to determine if that's true or not with modern medical imaging techniques. However I suspect they won't believe any evidence that doesn't align with their pre-determined conclusion.

Anything that shows what they say isn't true will be considered another layer of the targeting and campaign against them, furthering their conviction they're being targeted. Quite simply they're torturing themselves.

It's sad, but I wonder how do you help someone like that?

<comment><USER3> Among those with mental challenges, "microchip implant" allegations were more popular in the 1970s and 1980s. Remebmer that Boomtown Rats song about the school shooter? I suspect it was because both IC technology was becoming widely known and medical imaging still didn't quite catch up to where you could get a CT and prove it easily. I actually don't see the "microchip implant" accusation as much anymore, probably for that exact reason.

What I do see now is the rise of "microwave auditory effect" accusations, where the government or some other clandestine organisation is using radio waves to create voices in their head. Obviously, these are a lot harder to disprove, requiring a wideband SDR and expertise in operating one to conclusively rule out, something far less common than modern medical imaging.

Additionally, it's dubious that the subject would believe you even if you put them in a faraday cage and showed them the blank waterfall view proving no radio transmissions are even occurring. Owing to the nature of schizophrenia, they'd move onto the second-most common allegation I've seen: "psychic attacks", an accusation that handwaves away all physical explanations for the percieved harassment with an ill-defined mysticism that cannot be fully explained.

I often wonder myself how I would handle schizophrenia, and if the heroic mental gynmastics it creates are merely a product of a large ego, unwilling to admit one can be wrong in their judgement...or are genuinely organic/structural in the brain.

<comment><USER4> > I often wonder myself how I would handle schizophrenia, and if the heroic > mental gynmastics it creates are merely a product of a large ego, unwilling > to admit one can be wrong in their judgement...or are genuinely > organic/structural in the brain.

I don't know how accurate the movie was, but the movie A Beautiful Mind explored the topic of thinking your way out of schizophrenia. Its well worth a watch if you haven't seen it.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> >even the most advanced technology can't make someone hear voices or experience a different reality.

That's the advanced technology that we know of, anyway. Surely the aliens among us have more advanced technology that are capable of these kinds of things.

I say this only partly in jest, but it is downright amazing where your mind can go when you're trying to reconcile an "out-of-band" subjective experience with how you expect the world to normally function.</comment>


If you are a tribal resident, you get a PO Box, not a street address - <AUTHOR> https://twitter.com/AmericanIndian8/status/1051166929770164225 <comment><USER2> "You can only vote with a street address" is false.

<comment><USER3> Read this:

[https://www.cbsnews.com/news/north-dakota-voter-id-law- uphel...](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/north-dakota-voter-id-law-upheld-by- supreme-court-could-affect-senate-race/)</comment></comment>


Great Reading in Computer Science - <AUTHOR> http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~robins/CS_readings.html <comment><USER2> I would add Shannon's paper from 11 years later than his thesis, "A Mathematical Theory of Communication": [http://cm.bell- labs.com/cm/ms/what/shannonday/shannon1948.pd...](http://cm.bell- labs.com/cm/ms/what/shannonday/shannon1948.pdf) .

</comment><comment><USER3> Is it weird that I think Principia Mathematica should be on this list?

I feel that as a programmer my job is to very carefully axiomatize a little chunk of the world.

also, while I remember, Google cache (link was not workign when I came along):

[http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:n25iPlE...](http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:n25iPlEGp1sJ:www.cs.virginia.edu/~robins/CS_readings.html+http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~robins/CS_readings.html&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)

<comment><USER4> Have you read principia mathematica?

<comment><USER3> yes, i was a philosophy major

<comment><USER4> OK. Did you quickly skim it or read it carefully and understand all the proofs? (somehow I doubt the latter, because the authors themselves said years after writing the book that 6 people had read it).

It seems to me a huge waste of time to study an antiquated system of mathematics. If you're interested in this kind of stuff, study a modern book on logic or set theory.

<comment><USER3> Neither?

I didn't quickly skim it, but I didn't understand all of the proofs either. It is a couple thousand pages, so there is a large grey area between perfect understanding and having skimmed.

'Modern' books on logic or set theory are not nearly as well constructed as Principia Mathematica. (And the interesting part for me is the way that it is constructed).

I don't think Russel and Whitehead wrote it as a textbook...

<comment><USER4> In what way is Principia Mathematica better constructed?

The way I learned mathematics seems pretty well constructed. You first learn about sets, then you build natural numbers out of sets, then the integers, then rational numbers, from the rational numbers you build real numbers via Cauchy sequences. And you can construct all of this in less time than Principia Mathematica takes to get to 1+1=2.

<comment><USER5> Set theory is generally accepted as a better foundation for mathematics than _Principia_ 's type theory, but if you wrote all those ZFC proofs with full formality they'd be pretty long too. This answer on Math Overflow is pretty indicative.

[http://mathoverflow.net/questions/14356/bourbakis-epsilon- ca...](http://mathoverflow.net/questions/14356/bourbakis-epsilon-calculus- notation/31778#31778)

Usually mathematical arguments are relatively informal; every time you use set comprehension notation, for example, you're skipping a few steps in your proof (and note, of course, that the impredicative definitions one can use with it are open to e.g. Russell's paradox, which is why we have axiomatic set theory in the first place).

<comment><USER4> If you want to do everything perfectly formally you're better off studying a computer based theorem prover like Coq. Not only if everything proven perfectly formally, the proof is also checked by a computer. This also allows conciser proofs because the theorem prover can often generate parts of your proof.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Man, I had his "Good Quotations" page [1] bookmarked for the longest time, like seven years ago.

[1] <http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~robins/quotes.html>

</comment><comment><USER7> The link hasn't worked for me since last night. I can see a cached copy, but that's it.

</comment><comment><USER8> He didn't even include the Art of Computer Programming by Don Knuth!

<comment><AUTHOR> Considering it's "supplemental reading" for students, maybe he uses TAOCP in his courses already so doesn't need to mention it? :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> gary numan has a more interesting website than i had thought.</comment>


AMA Sessions for the Tech Community - <AUTHOR> http://m.me/AskMeAnythingChat <comment><AUTHOR> I'll help you to connect and network with other engineers, entrepreneurs, investors, researchers, and business leaders working in the technology sector.</comment>


South Korea building the largest ever offshore wind farm - <AUTHOR> http://cleantechnica.com/2010/11/09/south-korea-shatters-world-record-with-gigantic-off-shore-wind-farm/

<comment><USER2> When they quote the wind farm as 2500MW, it's probably its theoretical capacity. I don't know enough about South Korea to say how close the actual production will be, but I'll bet it's actually <1GW.

This sounds great, and it really is, but don't forget that this is the equivalent of _one_ nuclear power station, and South Korea requires ~40GW in total.

You may be interested in this excellent free book on the energy crisis and the different strategies we could use to help ourselves: <http://www.withouthotair.com/>

</comment><comment><USER3> South Korea might be the next clean energy giant. while we put a lot of attention on China and Europe, South Korea is making some huge steps forward...</comment>


Why Gist Powers Our Examples - <AUTHOR> http://mover.io/why-gist-powers-our-examples/

<comment><USER2> Even better than gists is to use actual running code for examples.

<http://gist-it.appspot.com/> allows you to do that, which we utilize in this tutorial: <http://cookbook.hobocentral.net/tutorials/caching>

Even more radical is using git for a step-by-step tutorial: <http://cookbook.hobocentral.net/tutorials/agility> is completely assembled from the commits of this repository: <https://github.com/Hobo/agility- gitorial/commits/master>

<comment><USER3> These are cool examples, but I'm not convinced of the utility here. Using a git history as a tutorial feels like trying to shim a wrench into a hammer.

What is needed is a form of CMS which can link some content to a patch, and I feel like there are better options out there for accomplishing that. It seems like maintaining this documentation going forward would be very challenging as git is not designed around making editing the past easy.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Maybe I'm a whiny edge case but this drives me nuts because gists don't show up in google reader or when I use readability.

<comment><AUTHOR> We definitely plan on caching it locally in the future so it should work.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> Sweet use of Git!

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks :) We think it provides a great experience for our devs.</comment></comment>


Show HN: Promotion/Raise Salary Data - <AUTHOR> http://perks.guide/promo <comment><AUTHOR> Hey Hacker news! we were inspired by other salary tracking sites to build a tool for engineers, product managers & other tech workers. Our observation was that the yearly raise and promotion process is even more opaque than the "new job negotiation" process.

Our goal is to try to crowdsource an answer to that! We're currently testing the tool so we're only tracking Google, Facebook, Amazon & Microsoft for now.

Open for any questions!

<comment><AUTHOR> Alternatively, we track raises @ [http://perks.guide/raise](http://perks.guide/raise)</comment></comment>


Ask HN: Could any talented and creative engineer become Elon Musk if given $10B? - <AUTHOR> <comment><USER2> Elon's superlative talent is as a salesperson and as an inspiring leader. Very few engineers would come even close. Elon has probably never done much hands on engineering work himself. Instead he has hundreds of very talented engineers working for him.

<comment><USER3> This is usually the case with executives but not for him, at least from several first and second hand stories I've heard. Musk doesn't do much long hours in front of a CAD program type work but he is definitely very involved in the engineering process and not just in a hiring and sales capacity. He is not just doing the "stone soup" trick. (I have yet to see stone soup actually work. I think its bullshit.)

I personally don't find him that charismatic in the salesman sense, at least in his presentations. He may be different in person. I do think he has some marketing talent but I think most of it comes from his legend, and that legend has resulted from a history of shipping very impressive stuff. He does not strike me as having a lot of the type of charisma that would work minus his reputation factor. Keep in mind that he was very rich when he started SpaceX and took over the skeleton of Tesla, so he had the capital to prove himself before having to seriously raise and sell.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> Yes provided they are very very talented (Musk is an amazing engineer), a polymath, and extremely driven to the point that the money won't make them slack off. The thing about Musk is that he has a sense of mission beyond just money.

So yeah, I think there are a decent number of people walking around who could do the sort of thing he does... maybe 1%-2% of the engineering profession if I had to guess.

Why are there not more actual Musks? Because the skills and interests that get you rich are typically not these. They are skills like charisma, charm, social networking ability, etc.

<comment><AUTHOR> And luck.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Probably not. If you're that smart, you'll make that money on your own anyway

</comment><comment><USER5> I can do this e-car better, cheaper. HVR some costs blocking any way to do this.

</comment><comment><USER6> I believe DNA guarantees a "no".

</comment><comment><USER5> I belive CIA : )</comment>


Pastebin, compiler, and debugger supporting 40+ languages - <AUTHOR> http://ideone.com

<comment><USER2> Obligatory cross-link to codepad: <http://codepad.org/>

Footnote to history: I liked codepad so much when I first saw it on HN back in 2008, I tracked down the guy who made it (Steve Hazel/sah) and made him my co- founder! :-)

<comment><USER3> You made Selenium, you're not too shabby yourself.

How does it feel to be the author of a goddamn resume requirement? :-P

<http://jobsearch.monster.com/PowerSearch.aspx?q=selenium>

<comment><USER2> :-) I'll celebrate when these two lines cross: <http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=qtp,+selenium>

Until then, we've got work to do!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Guess they thought of that...

<http://ideone.com/Xm7TK>

<comment><USER5> They also guard their compilation environment (I think)

<http://ideone.com/icJVj>

<comment><USER6> How is that paste an example of the compiler being guarded?

In fact it looks like '/etc/passwd' is readable to the compiler after all.

<comment><USER5> The Python example in parent printed an /etc/passwd full of nobody-accounts. From my error message, I only know that the first line in the compilation environment is a nobody-account. In all /etc/passwds I remember having dealt with (mostly the distribution-maintained ones of Linux distributions), the first line was the root account. This is by no means a proof that the compilation environment is guarded, but a strong hint.

<comment><USER6> OK, but I wonder if it's not easier to just block access to /etc/passwd from the compiler while it is compiling user-submitted code. AppArmor or SELinux could be used to do this.

A decoy /etc/passwd is a bit less plausible to me.

<comment><USER5> As for the plausibility of the decoy, how do you interpret the output of the Python interpreter in the great-grandparent comment?

If I had to build a compile-and-run sandbox, I'd also look into SELinux or AppArmor. However, blocking reads to /etc/passwd will disable getpwent(), which innocent programs may occasionally use, and with shadow passwords, /etc/passwd should not be sensitive anyway.

<comment><USER6> Hmm, I have to admit a 'nobody' account with UID and GID 0 is weird. I'm not sure if it is possible for a non-superuser to have those values so you may be right here.

With AppArmor, at least, it is perfectly possible to assign different policies to the same program. Policies are applied to programs identified by pathname so all one needs to do to sandbox, for instance, /usr/bin/gcc:

1\. ln /usr/bin/gcc-4.4 ~/sandbox/compilers/gcc 2\. Create and enforce an apparmor policy for ~/sandbox/compilers/gcc 3\. Remember to use only ~/sandbox/compilers/gcc for untrusted code.

I do this (among other things) for my platform, and given that I only require user-submitted code to solve one of a limited set of algorithmic challenges, I can get away with blocking access to /etc/passwd (and everything else but a restricted whitelist).

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> I built a Chrome extension that meets gist.github.com and ideone.com <http://github.com/NV/run-this-gist>. Alas, API doesn't work well in most cases <http://ideone.com/tXexT>.

<comment><USER8> Nice idea. There is also a GistDoIt: <http://www.gistdoit.com/about>

<comment><USER7> If I knew about it wouldn't build mine.

<comment><USER8> Why? The more options to choose, the better.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> They have an API! <http://ideone.com/api>

I'd have to learn SOAP first, but I've been meaning to do a website similar to tryruby.com for one of my projects. This looks like it could definitely help.

<comment><USER7> Try <http://run-this.appspot.com/> if you don't want to learn SOAP.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> I could see this useful for coding tests during interviews.

<comment><USER11> see[Mike]code might be an even better fit for that purpose:

<http://i.seemikecode.com/>

<comment><USER8> You can always use any of online judge services allowing you to set problem/organize contests (like <http://spoj.pl>) but how do you know your candidate is really solving the problem by himself?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> Interesting! you can use java-scripting api for running jruby, jpython etc on server but how're they doing it for C/C++?

</comment><comment><USER13> A nice feature (compared to codepad) is the ability to specify input.

<comment><USER8> Right! You can specify even multiple inputs and clone them - helps while you need to modify/test a code snippet.

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> it is integrated with FB, nice!</comment>


Ask HN: Is HN biased vs. Tether and crypto in general? - <AUTHOR> There were two statistical studies published in 2018. One was from a graduate student and one from someone that has a crypto blog. They post the opposite results.First one got 550 upvotes, the other one got 0 upvotes. You can guess that the negative study has a greater impact due to psychological reasons.
Here are the links:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/13/technology/bitcoin-price-manipulation.html
http://forklog.net/so-have-we-got-tethered/
Conclusion? (will be evident from the downvotes this receives) <comment><USER2> Short answer : Probably no, I think.

Long answer : HN crowd mostly consists of technical people, that are able to form an opinion on technical merit, instead of pure "hype" factor and Resume- Driven Development. When a particular technology begins to get traction, it must be gauged on this technical merit. Also, popularity on HN has little to do with real-world metrics and circumstances, it can come down to simple luck.

Lastly, a NY Times article, should be more unattached and trustworthy than just "someone that has a crypto blog".

</comment><comment><USER3> Many submissions get 0 votes [https://news.ycombinator.com/newest](https://news.ycombinator.com/newest). Sometimes it's time-of-day, which other news got submitted around the same time, uninteresting title. URLs that made the frontpage with 100s of upvotes and lively discussion sometimes have been submitted several times before without gaining traction. I wouldn't read too much into that.</comment>


When Gravity Breaks Down - <AUTHOR> http://nautil.us/blog/when-gravity-breaks-down <comment><USER2> As we know, the path of a photon can be bent by a large mass with gravity.

Okay: Pass a photon, or electron, or other particle, through a beam splitter and, thus, get its wave function in two parts.

Then the question seems to be, do the parts also get bent by gravity? Is there any doubt they won't.

For a particle with mass, surely it has gravity. So, the two parts of its wave function no longer have gravity -- is that the question she is asking? Maybe depending on the beam splitter, the two parts of the wave function have 60% and 40% of the gravity of the whole particle?

Get a lot of particles, say, neutrons, that do feel and generate gravity and run them through a beam splitter. Bunch #1 goes north and bunch #2 goes east. So far they still generate gravity? Some miles away from the beam splitter we put detectors, one for each bunch. With a 50%-50% beam splitter, with the law of large numbers, we detect 50% of the particles at each detector. That is, each detector gets a part of the wave function for ALL the particles but detects only half of the particles.

Suppose the detector for bunch #1 is some miles farther from the beam splitter than the detector for bunch #2. So, the wave functions for bunch #2 hit their detector before the wave functions for bunch #1 hits their detector.

Now look at the wave functions for bunch #1: About half of those wave functions have already collapsed due to detections at the detector for bunch #2. So, the gravity generated by the remaining wave functions of bunch #1 are, from the law of large numbers, half what they would be without a detector for bunch #2. So, for bunch #1, we have had faster than speed of light communications from the detector for bunch #2 to a measurement of the gravity of bunch #1.

Yes, we can't get a gravity detector sensitive enough, but for that theory that's not important. Instead, for the bunches to generate gravity gets to be an issue anyway.

<comment><USER3> If you have a gravity detector that can distinguish where a photon's energy is localized, it also works as a photon detector in the QM measurement sense, and will collapse the wavefunction in the same way.

Also, remember that gravity waves move at the speed of light; you can't detect a photon's gravity from a distance without waiting for the same light speed delay that you would get from the photon itself.

<comment><USER2> > If you have a gravity detector that can distinguish where a photon's energy > is localized, it also works as a photon detector in the QM measurement > sense, and will collapse the wavefunction in the same way.

I've wondered about that: The moving particle, photon, electron, neutron, is throwing off a gravity wave as it is moving if we don't have a gravity wave detector detecting that wave. So, just having the detector, maybe a second away, collapses the wave function?

My guess is that as a wave function is split into multiple parts going off in different directions and getting far apart, the particle is not yet "localized" in any of the parts. The idea that there is a particle, "localized" but we just don't yet know where it is I have a tough time accepting. Instead, until there is an _interaction_ that transfers the energy, although maybe not the gravitational energy, there is no localization. Or, all the parts of the wave function both feel and generate gravity until the collapse from an interaction with, say, a detector.

Or, if only one part of the wave function has the particle, then when two parts of the wave function are combined, as in just Young's double slit, we should not get the interference we do get. Or, it seems we get the interference of the wave function parts, then get the detection; there never was anything localized until the detection at which time all the parts of the wave function have to collapse everywhere, instantaneously, even across 1 billion light years -- no I don't like to believe that, but I'm just looking at the interference of two parts of the wave function in Young's double slit: If the particle was really in just one of the two parts of the wave function, then tough to believe in the interference we do see.

<comment><USER4> > So, just having the detector, maybe a second away, collapses the wave > function? My guess is that (...)

This gets to to crux of the issue the author (and others in contemporary physics, Hawking included for that matter) was raising. We can conjecture, via theoretical physics, a whole slew of possible models of the universe that combine general relativity and quantum mechanics. But, there is a lack of experimental evidence (or interpretation of existing results) to resolve the ongoing "debates". And there hasn't been any real progress, in that respect, in the past 80 years.

We need to test the edge cases of both theories as best we know how. For example, tunnel to the center of the earth (or another planet?) and verify our existing models in the gravity well, maybe repeat the double-slit experiment remotely while we're there. I'd say a task much more difficult, engineering- wise, then flying a human being to another planet and back.

<comment><USER5> Gravity decreases as you move inside the Earth.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Nautilus always does such a great job of putting concepts in layman's terms and making them flavorful.

</comment><comment><USER7> There appears to be a very basic error in this writeup. I say there appears to be because it seems to be so easy to misunderstand language used in casual descriptions of quantum mechanics. Neither I nor the writer is a lawyer. My apologies if I misunderstood what was written. My experience here in general is when something seems very clearly wrong, it is my misunderstanding. None the less...

Quantum mechanics does not say a particle can be in two places at the same time. A wave function does not say a particle is at point A AND point b. The wave function says the particele is at point A OR point B.

To take this a step further, if the particle has an electric field, then the wave function would look like the following:

(particle at A AND electric field around point A) OR (particle at B AND electric field around point B)

The wave function would NOT be:

(particle at A OR particle at B) AND (electric field around A OR electric field around B)

And also not:

(particle at A AND particle at B) AND (electric field around A and B)

Presumably the same applies to a gravitational field.

<comment><USER8> I like this description of it :

[https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/the-talk-3](https://www.smbc- comics.com/comic/the-talk-3)

key quote:

'Superposition doesn't mean "and", but it also doesn't mean "or".' 'It means a complex linear combination of a 0 state and a 1 state. You should think of it as a new ontological category: a way of combining things that doesn't really map onto any classical concept.'

<comment><USER9> I like that quote myself, but one thing I don't understand is - are the amplitudes always of a magnitude 1? Because if qbits are really always the same magnitude, why represent them as two-dimensional? Wouldn't the math be easier if we converted it to polar form and just had one measurement per superposition?

Sorry if this is a dumb question, I'm not formally trained in any of this stuff...

<comment><USER10> It's a good question. The cartoon says that qubits are "unit vectors in 2D Hilbert space." However because the length is 1, you can think of it as a vector in 2D projective Hilbert space. Projective space is what you get when you throw away a vector's length and only talk about its angles.

Some intuition: if you have a particle and you look everywhere for it, your chance of finding it must be 100%. It can't be 50% (where could it be?) and it can't be 200% (duh).

QM in one dimension is formulated as "a 1d complex unit vector", i.e. a complex number of magnitude 1, which is routinely represented in polar form (a complex exponential).

QM in two dimensions is a "2d complex unit vector" which is really 3d: you get three linearly independent components, and then the fourth one is decided for you. You can think of this as spherical coordinates, but complex numbers are much easier to manipulate, so that's what we do.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> If existing theory covers all practical experiments, maybe we don't need a new theory? Sometimes you just gotta declare victory and move on to some other field.

<comment><USER5> You could have said the same thing in 1880, and indeed many people famously did declare "the end of physics" at that time.</comment></comment>