Ask HN: Thinking of moving to Europe from USA - <AUTHOR> Not sure where to begin I am a US Citizen not a felon but wondering what I can do or the process to get started in moving to Europe?
what's it like out there comparing to America. I want a new life fresh start new faces.
I have family in Europe I don't have a degree or anything yet.
I know some programming but I plan to live with an aunt out there. No kids no job 26 years of age <comment><USER2> If you are a programmer/designer you can get a 3 year freelance visa in Berlin, Germany. I currently live in Berlin with that visa.

Your standard of living in Europe will vary. Sure, some places offer free healthcare (not exactly free - see taxes), better public transportation, and decent quality food at lower tier supermarkets. That's all great. On the other hand, you'll likely take a huge hit in salary and pay higher taxes. That does make a difference in lifestyle. A personal anecdote: in NYC I paid $2500/month to live alone in a decent apartment in a vibrant area (East Village). That's a lot of money! In Berlin I paid $700/month for an apartment of similar quality, but because salary and taxes are so low, I wasn't able to save nearly as much as I did in NYC paying high rent, a lot of money for quality groceries, etc.

There are other benefits of living in Europe like 30 days of vacation, ample maternal/paternal leave, and some financial security if you lose your job. That said, it's harder to get these jobs. Because of the risk companies need to take when hiring new employees (ie paying for all the benefits above), there's currently a huge workforce of temporary employees. Everyone is aiming for the seemingly elusive "permanent contract."

I say make the move. You'll learn a lot about the world and yourself. You can always move back to the US.

FYI this comes from the perspective of a software engineer turned entrepreneur turned software engineer.

Berlin freelance visa: [https://service.berlin.de/dienstleistung/305249/en/](https://service.berlin.de/dienstleistung/305249/en/)

<comment><USER3> >> If you are a programmer/designer you can get a 3 year freelance visa in Berlin, Germany. I currently live in Berlin with that visa.

For someone like me who doesn't understand German language, is it possible to go on with the daily life interacting with the locals in English?

<comment><USER4> In Berlin, sure. The elder may not be able to understand your English.

Some rules of thumb:

1) The younger, the more likely to be able to speak English.

2) Rural area less likely to speak English (well) compared to big cities and tourist areas.

3) In IT/tech world in Germany you should have far less problems than say farmers.

I'd say those count in general though :) if you go to Amsterdam people are much more likely to speak English than a local, small Dutch town foreigners generally haven't heard about. And, English is very practical in our globalised world. Make no mistake about German though; it is also a practical language in Europe.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> I assume you want a career as a software engineer.

This is my list:

\- Berlin: cheap (getting expensive quick, but still cheap for a large city), multicultural (many, many people from all around the world, lots of people speak English, those who don't usually understand you), Germans themselves are very open and interesting as a nation. Berlin has a vibrant startup scene, which is nice for getting your first job as a young person with little experience. The downside is that there is not many serious software companies nor industry. Salaries are VERY low compared with the US. German is not required for normal life, but highly recommended. Some companies still prefer people with German.

\- London: Has many, many companies and is usually on the bleeding edge technology-wise. Payroll is nice, although prices and rent are high. You won't have to learn a new language and will be able to compete for all the job offers as long as your profile fits in. The downside is the imminent Brexit, which might be good or bad, nobody knows right now.

\- Zurich: once you are +30 and look for a more quiet, stable lifestyle, Switzerland is the place to be. Salaries are US-level, health care, security, public transportation and stability are the best in Europe (Norway might be better though, but very close). It's VERY expensive, although if you come from NY or from the Bay Area, rents are more or less in the same ballpark. The language barrier is comparable as in Germany, although Swiss people usually prefer when people speak English rather than standard German with foreign accent. Swiss people might be a bit tough to crack, but are not that bad once you know how to treat them. In the Zurich area there is tons and tons of companies, lots of innovation going on as well. Finance is very strong. Biotech is growing pretty strong.

I have 2 recommendations for you:

a) Go to Berlin, and then start looking around. It's a really cool place to be for 26-year-old.

b) Go to London, you will have a much easier start and there is enough companies for an adventurous career.

<comment><USER6> I would not suggest Germany or (german) Switzerland to people that don't speak german.

<comment><USER7> Studying another language is part of leaving your comfort zone. People can start with the several apps available today, they don't even need to go to an actual class.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> I spent a few years living and working in Europe with EU companies or US subsidies there. The one main gotcha that no one thinks about is the tax and retirement savings side of things, both of which you should probably do.

As a US citizen you're obligated to file (and possibly pay) taxes no matter where in the world you work and reside, no exceptions. It's the price of having US citizenship and access to the US embassy. In most cases you probably won't end up paying anything when you declare the tax you paid in your resident country, but that gets complicated with that country having a different tax year than the US (April to April vs calendar year). Get a competent expat attorney and pay for it to be done for you. There's also the FBAR which you might need to become acquainted with.

As for the retirement savings, lots of countries have their own types of retirement accounts that can be invested in as part of your paycheck. The caveat here is how to repatriate the funds when you leave before hitting your 60's. I haven't found a great way to roll those over to an IRA back in the states yet.

<comment><USER9> Do you really need to declare that you paid taxes in Germany? Isn't there some sort of agreement?

<comment><USER10> There's ~90k cap. If your foreign-earned income is less than that, you state the tax paid in Germany and don't need to pay for US taxes. If you make more than ~90k, you have to pay taxes for the amount over ~90k.

<comment><USER9> Thanks, yeah, I´m trying to understand that.. Since I need to do it for my wife...

It looks super complex :(

<comment><USER10> I use TurboTax and it's built into the software finally, and makes this quite simple. Originally they just made you look at the tax form and fill it out yourself, but they've really improved the "foreign american" parts of the tax software in the past two years.

<comment><USER9> Nice! Which version should I use?

Oh boy,just realised that we need to report the last three years too. Called streamlined process... Can they do that?

<comment><USER10> You would need to buy past versions of the software I think. I don't know how that works -- I just use my parent's copy every year. You get like 3 licenses whenever you buy the software, so if you know someone else who needs to file maybe you can share ;)

But I think you'll have to print them out and mail them in manually, rather than electronic filing. But I haven't tried myself so I'm not sure.

(Edit: To be clear, the tax software is versioned by tax year. So, "Turbotax 2016" is what I will use this year. So you'd have to buy Turbotax 2015, 2014, and 2013 presumably.)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> Europe is great. I have several friends who've made this move. I'd say that they have a higher and more relaxed quality of life at a much lower salary than I know of in the U.S. Salaries are lower, taxes are higher, but I think it balances out well.

One thing I've noticed is that if you're willing to live a bit outside of a major city and along a commuter rail line (a commute not extraordinary by U.S. standards but seemingly insane by European), housing costs can be much much lower.

With a few exceptions, the kind of tech work will likely be more prosaic in nature. The kind of big startup scene you might find in SV or other places in the U.S. _does_ exist in Europe, but not at anywhere near the scale or with the kind of capital availability that's present in the U.S. On the upside, the work tends to be very stable.

Long-term, you'll have to think about retirement and either make a decision to stay or return and start saving up. If you come back to the U.S., the system is designed to offer you a reasonable retirement, but only after decades of saving. You may not think that's important at 26, but you'll likely start to feel it at 36. If you stay in Europe, you'll need to figure out the local retirement system and how that work.

If you pull that trigger and stay in Europe, you'll probably want to look at giving up your U.S. citizenship because you'll be obligated to pay taxes the entire time you're in Europe (there's some deductions, but you'll still have to do all the paperwork).

<comment><USER12> > pension

If you move to Europe, build up a pension, and then move back to the U.S., you should be able extract the money from that pension (according to the conditions), regardless of where you reside in there future.

> taxes

You are obliged to report all of your foreign earnings to the IRS as well as all of your foreign bank account status each year. You are taxed on your income both in the local country and in the US :-/, but the US amount is only on income above a certain threshold. Maybe someone can correct me but I think the current amount is somewhere around $90k USD. Like my parent poster said, there are deductions, so find a good tax adviser that is familiar with both local and US tax laws.

<comment><USER13> You can ether use the foreign earned income exclusion (which I think has risen to closer to 100k) or the foreign tax credit.

You also want to take extensions so that you can qualify as a nonresident, or you will pay the ACA penalty for not having health insurance.

<comment><USER14> If you live outside of the US for 330 days a year, you're considered exempt from ACA coverage requirements.

<comment><USER13> I think there is also something where you can take an extension in order to hit the 330 day mark if you move in the middle of the year?

<comment><USER14> If such a loophole exists I'm unaware of it, but I would love to be proven wrong if someone has a link or citation they can respond with.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> > what's it like out there comparing to America

It's totally different country by country. I never been to the US, but I imagine it's much more homogeneous than the EU. For example you can go to Berlin, Barcelona, Milano, Stockholm or Budapest and you can have radically different experiences. It differs radically financially, demographically and attitude wise.

I'd suggest to start with a Euro-trip and visit as many countries as you can and then make a "final" choice where to settle.

<comment><USER16> > I never been to the US, but I imagine it's much more homogeneous than the EU

I'd argue they are mostly the same. IMO, The US is pretty similar in structure to the EU where the US as a whole is comprised of many states, each with their own laws. Yes there are federal laws but for the most part, each state can do whatever they want.

Each state / region has vastly different cultures and standards of living.

<comment><USER17> Ireland is richer than the US. Bulgaria is poorer than China. That's the gap.

<comment><USER18> Per capita, Delaware is richer than Ireland (#37 in GDP), Mississippi is poorer than Bahrain (#98). Bahrain is behind Bulgaria (#81). China (#2) is in a class of its own, because of its enormous population.

This sidesteps the question of cultural differences state to state / country to country, or even between urban/rural regions.

Sources: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_between_U.S._states...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_between_U.S._states_and_countries_by_GDP_\(nominal\)_per_capita) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nomi...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_\(nominal\))

<comment><USER17> That's absolute GDP you're linking to.

Bulgaria: 6,843 USD per capita; Mississippi: 24,062 USD per capita

Bulgaria is a member of the EU. If you look outside the EU (but still in Europe) you find countries that are poorer than Iraq and Vietnam.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nomi...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_\(nominal\)_per_capita)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> EU citizen currently living in the US here.

Hugely recommended, if only for comparison purposes. From my own experience, English speaking countries are a must. If that's not an option, cities like Barcelona or Berlin should cover your bases for at least a year, but you won't survive for long without speaking Spanish or German. There are more things than work in life, and you'll soon get tired of only dealing with expats or your own nationals.

Please do not fool yourself too early into thinking 'yeah, I'll just learn the thing', unless you have a knack for languages, or you already speak one or two foreign tongues. YMMV though, it is certainly doable if you apply.

Scandinavian countries, Ireland or The Netherlands are your best bet these days, and there is a relatively big IT sector in all of them.

Salaries are not what you expect coming from the US, your $200k rated job is no more than 80k€, but you will certainly require much less. Saving is possible and encouraged.

Edit: grammar

<comment><USER20> >"Salaries are not what you expect coming from the US, your $200k rated job is no more than 80k€"

Is that a good rule of thumb then? $200k is fairly top end in the US. Obviously there are people at the big SV companies that make more but 200K is pretty close to top end for senior people. So you are saying that that 80K Euros is the general top end for EU tech companies? Given that there is more or less dollar to Euro parity now that is substantially less.

On the other hand you will work a lot of hours for that 200K in the US. Is that also true of the EU for similar? I think that proper work life balance should always be considered in addition to actual compensation.

<comment><USER19> I was indeed comparing a senior developer salary in SV with an equivalent position in a country like The Netherlands or Sweden. The bottom side of the bracket is more difficult to quantify in my view, and there are other aspects involved such as minimum salary etc.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> Man, you have a very vauable asset for a tech career - a US Citizenship. I am very envious of folks who have it. The tech career opportunities outside of US are really not that diverse and are heavily scattered across the world - i.e. maybe the rest of the world combined is as interesting tech-wide as US is - but with lower salary and language/immigration barriers (i.e. try job-hopping, over a span of say 5 years, from Germany to New Zealand to China vs NYC to SF to Seattle).

<comment><USER22> > you have a very vauable asset for a tech career - a US Citizenship

DAFUQ ? I am a French research in computer science, now working for a company producing and streaming contents on the web.

I can assure you that my carrer opportunities — as sysadmin, researcher, or developper — are pretty good in France and in Europe :)

<comment><USER21> I didn't say it's impossible, it's merely generally harder and for less money.

Re: sysadmin and developer roles - my post was mostly about diversity and breadth of available roles. These sysadmin and developer roles are generic enough that one will be fine in them in Europe. A sufficiently specialized researcher, on the other hand, usually has only a handful of places in the entire world that are interested in hiring him within his specialty - a lot of which are in the US.

I see this in a friend of mine. He's a young PhD Machine Learning Researcher with top credentials (Ivy League, top publications, won awards in his field). He wants to live in Europe due to family concerns, but he really can't find a position that would allow him use his talent, and is semi-wasting his time in random bad Data Science jobs for now - while he's getting numerous awesome offers from the US (like leading a research unit at Google or faculty positions in Ivy League schools).

<comment><USER23> > it's merely generally harder and for less money.

My experience has been the opposite in terms of difficulty. In most EU countries the market of software engineers who can also speak the native country's language is really small so its way easier to stand out from the crowd. In the US, you have to compete in a 350 million+ population pool plus global candidates who have studied English their whole lives. In any given EU country the candidate pool is a fraction the size and of those the one's who can communicate fluently in the native language is a fraction of that fraction.

<comment><USER21> You can't ignore the demand side of the equation though. US is leading economic and military (which leads to lots of tech as well) superpower and a lot of European countries are relatively backwater in comparison.

For example, in the UK, there's little real tech companies and most developer roles are confined to non-tech support roles in other economy sectors (finance, retail etc.).

<comment><USER24> I did a search on the most recent How's Hiring thread to see how many jobs are offered in each city. I think it's fair to assume that most people posting there are "real tech companies":

      San Francisco: 170
      New York: 96
      London: 90
      Boston: 38
      Berlin: 34

I just did a full text search so there might be some double counting.

<comment><USER21> > I think it's fair to assume that most people posting there are "real tech > companies":

That is debatable and depends largely on a definition. My viewpoint is that a large portion of the companies in the current VC-inspired "tech" world are merely applying tech and not really developing it. For every company like Datastax there's a dozen of companies which are just applying tech solutions (packaged and sold by other companies) to a specific business/consumer problem.

Or, to put it in other terms, if the job offer does not say "Msc/PhD in X preferred" (where X is the job, like distributed systems, deep learning etc.), then it's likely not quite a "real tech" job.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> Sidenote, if you or your mom, happen to be jewish.. You can get a free ticket to Israel, give you citizenship, the government will help you with housing and actually give you money, and hebrew lessons.. They also have a booming tech industry.. I lived there for a couple of years and while not exactly in mainland Europe, it is very European. I currently live in Mexico City and thats also a great non-Euro option !

<comment><USER26> I currently live in Guadalajara as a freelancer and I am thinking of moving to Mexico City next year if I can convince myself to pay the higher rent. Loved being there and there are areas similar to Brooklyn to give you an idea of what life is like there.

<comment><USER25> convincing myself the same thing, but for Guadalajara!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> Concretely, check out DAFT: the Dutch-American Friendship Treaty.

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DAFT](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DAFT)

 _The treaty makes it easier for US Entrepreneurs to open businesses in The Netherlands. It lowers the amount of needed investment capital from €27,000 to €4,500, frees US Entrepreneurs from the points-based test, and removes the benefit to Dutch national interests requirement. The residency permit is good for two years, after which it can be extended._

</comment><comment><USER28> You won't exactly get fresh faces, but have you thought about working remotely for an American company from Europe? Many companies are open to this and you can skirt visa issues just traveling as a tourist. This way, you can dip your toes into the locale you're interested in with less commitment and upending.

</comment><comment><USER29> Europe is big - not geographically, but culturally. As kowdermeister already said, you'll have _very_ different experiences in different parts of Europe. Amsterdam's culture is very different from Barcelona's culture, which is very different from London's culture. Go on a little trip: for Americans I'd suggest Berlin, Amsterdam, London, Madrid, or anything you're interested in.

<comment><USER30> Europe (the continent) is about the same size as the US, just with twice as many people living in Europe. NA is lots bigger, but a lot of empty space...

</comment></comment><comment><USER23> I can only speak for the countries I know about which are Germany, Poland and France. But generally I think these properties hold across Europe as a whole, at least from collegues or friends from other countries whom I've talked to, this might not be the case though so check it out for yourself. So heres the gist of it.

You will have a much lower standard of living by most monetary measures. Taxes are higher than in the US and regulations/beurocracy is more extensive. Everything is "smaller" from cars, houses, and land to meals. Energy costs - especially transportation costs - are much higher almost everywhere, which forces you to try to keep your energy consumption low compared to how you would live in the US. There is virtually one sport everywhere and its soccer, so facilities/clubs/organizations for any other sport are far behind US standards. For instance, you will not be able to find anything resembling a YMCA where you can workout with weights, play basketball and racketball and go swimming all for some monthly membership. People all live much closer together, so you won't be able to find a place thats even a little "off the grid" this can be good or bad just depends on what you prefer.

On the more positive side, you will have "free" healthcare, but the quality will vary drastically from country to country. In Poland its disastrous for instance whereas in Germany its pretty nice and will cover just about all your health costs and the quality is high as well. France is closer to the Germany side of things but I'd say the overall quality is a bit lower. Also you will rarely if ever work more than 40 hours a week and you'll also get 30 paid vacation days a year from most employers. In Germany, sick days don't count against your vacation days so it all compounds to a pretty big chunk of leisure time. Additionally, there's all kinds of various social welfare programs that will take care of you should you become unemployed or disabled etc. these are extensive and well-funded in Germany and France much less so in Poland.

I'm an expat and have lived/worked in Germany for the past 9 years, basically my entire 20s and working life except for freelance web work I did while getting my undergrad in the US.

<comment><AUTHOR> what kinda freelance work did you do

</comment></comment><comment><USER31> "In Europe" is kinda broad statement. It's like saying moving to americas. Honduras is not Alaska. Where to, exactly?

<comment><AUTHOR> London UK or Italy

<comment><USER31> UK for work, Italy for holidays? To my understanding the employment options in Italy generally suck. If someone has better information please revise.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER32> I am biased (born here) but I'd recommend Ireland. Zero language barrier, very little cultural difference (all people seem to talk about these days are HBO and Netflix shows and the US election).

There is huge demand for developers here at the moment. You're guaranteed a job in Dublin, but rent can be a mini nightmare there. It starts at around 800 euro for single room bedsits, you could pay 1200-1500 per month for a house in the suburbs with an hour commute. You may find work in other parts of the country but most companies are in or around the capital.

Food here is good, standards of living are high, crime low, services (health etc) competitively good. Irish people like to complain about it here but we have it good

</comment><comment><USER7> > what I can do or the process to get started in moving to Europe?

Do your homework? Learn a language besides English (maybe?)

At least rejoice, European visa processes are usually straightforward (if you have a diploma) and it usually involves much less BS and waits than the corresponding H1-B process

</comment><comment><USER33> Find a job in your country of choice and get your visa - then move, about as simple as that.

If you're looking at a job on the continent make sure you know the local language fluently (not English). It is said that its ok to know English alone but it really isn't.

You'll come to the reason that most Europeans in the tech space opt for the US - the compensation factor in Europe is relatively poor.

<comment><USER34> Lower compensation, but better social security (if you manage to get citizenship), better working hours, more holidays.

I second learning the local language. That is one of the most important requirements to truly integrate.

<comment><USER33> Having gone through the experience myself it depends what you're aiming at. In my opinion, in the tech space in particular the US is a no brainer for the European to move to:

If you're aiming at your own startup, Europe is downright awful you control the working hours, holidays and social security. Entrepreneurship is terrible because the culture doesn't adapt well to it. Raising cash is like selling a fridge to eskimos. There is a culture of hitting yourself at failure and extremely conservative risk. Your own parents wont support you in a startup.

For a job in tech: In Silicon valley all those things you mentioned are quite easy to come by? Social security, holidays, working hours and even better + a wage which is why the draw is the other way from here.

<comment><USER35> This is really interesting, I wonder if Stockholm is for some reason in its own bubble when it comes to startups in the EU. We have so many (funded) startups forming here it's kind of getting crazy (but in a good way). I mostly only hear about new games companies forming as that's the industry I'm in - quite a few people have recently left larger companies in Stockholm to start their own game dev studios. I guess with time we will know how successful they will be, but at least the process of branching off and starting your own studio here seems quite accessible.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> As I see that elsewhere you mentioned that you only have basic technical skills, I will offer you this information:

* If seeking a job, you will have a hard time being hired without much more experience.

* You cannot "just move" to any European country without getting a job there, unless you have a bunch of money in the bank or proven income (usually a minimum of 50k a year), and only some countries allow you to come for "non-lucrative" purposes. Easiest is Spain.

* Getting a freelancer visa is generally difficult unless, again, you can prove a track record. It's much easier to start as a normal employee and apply to be a freelancer after a few years in the system.

* My #1 suggestion to anyone looking to move to Europe for work: Come here on vacation, apply for jobs in person, land a contract, move here. Getting a job in person is so much easier. In Germany you need to make at least 38k to qualify for the skilled worker visa. You can make as little as ~36k if your job is in a STEM field. You will not get hired without solid experience if you're applying from America, I can tell you that with near certainty.

I have a hand full of articles on my blog you may find useful. However, they are mostly geared towards people who are highly skilled. IMO you need to focus on honing your skillset before you try to move abroad, because any European country is only going to take you if you're an asset to the system or rich enough, basically.

[http://notanomadblog.com/categories/work- abroad/](http://notanomadblog.com/categories/work-abroad/)

I'm a developer from the US living in Berlin. I've been in Germany for about 3.5 years now. Let me know if you have any questions and I'll be happy to answer them!

As a last statement: I love living in Europe and may never move back to the US.

</comment><comment><USER36> I moved from the UK to The Netherlands a decade ago. It was a fantastic decision. It's nice here, most people speak English (although I learnt the language) and there's a lot of demand for Developers. There are also crazy tax incentives which result in you paying basically 0 tax for the first 5 years. That covers the costs of learning the language (3k EUR and it takes 2 years).

<comment><USER37> Can you talk more about those tax incentives?

<comment><USER38> I believe he talks about the 30% ruling: [http://www.iamsterdam.com/en/local/official- matters/highly-s...](http://www.iamsterdam.com/en/local/official- matters/highly-skilled-migrants/thirty-percent-ruling/30-percent-ruling- indepth)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER35> Does the US have a working holiday visa arrangement with Europe? This is how I moved, but I was moving from Australia. Got my Australian citizenship and applied for working holiday visa to Sweden. Visa documentation was emailed to me within a couple of weeks of the application. This allowed me to move with my savings and look for a job on-site. The employer I found then helped me out with the process of applying for my employee visa and residence permit once my working holiday visa was near expiry.

If you're a senior dev you may be able to just bypass the "move first" step and get a job remotely with a relocation package. I had experience in my chosen industry but was still considered fairly junior, so moving to the country and applying from there ended up being more productive than looking for a company that would deal with relocating a junior from the other side of the world.

<comment><USER39> Many (most?) countries will give you a work visa if you have a job offer, and will let you stay if that turns permanent. It's not tied to the US.

<comment><USER35> Yes, but I'm not really sure what this has to do with my comment? A Working Holiday visa is not the same as a work visa that you get if you have a job offer. The point of my getting a Working Holiday visa was to move to the country for a substantial amount of time (the visa allows 1 year) and look for work while there instead of trying to convince an employer to hire a junior from overseas.

Most EU countries also have restrictions on the employee visas they grant - such as the position having to be advertised within the country (or maybe within the EU) first with some exceptions for very specialist roles, etc. In addition (speaking only for Sweden here) even afterwards it's not as easy as going to the Migration board and going "Well here's my offer, give me a visa!" \- the Migration board checks with the relevant union to vet the offer and make sure conditions of employment are suitable. In addition to that queues can be very long, so having the assistance of a larger company that frequently liaises with both the migration board and the unions when applying for a visa can help fast track the entire process.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER40> That's a big life decision.

I've lived in Europe my whole life, but I have a lot of friends and relatives in the US. I've also lived in 3 different European countries, and of course I know people from just about all the Western European nations.

There's a lot got you to think about. This is only a small part, off the top of my head:

\- If you're American, you pay tax worldwide. Most countries have higher tax than the US, so you just pay their tax. Switzerland is different. I lived there, it's a pain as an American to even get a bank account. And you'll have to file a return. A friend of mine is half American and is an accountant. It's annoying for him as well.

\- Languages. Which do you speak? Most Northern European countries have significant numbers of companies where they speak English. That's not to say you can't learn the language, English is a Germanic language, so not a million miles off German, Dutch, Danish, Swedish, etc. Yet you're not going to understand it getting off the plane.

\- Social. Are you coming by yourself or are you married? Got kids? It's hard to find documentation for this, but the way one socialises depends a lot on which country you're in, whether you're in the countryside or the city, and whether you have kids or are single. Anecdotally I'd also say some of the Germanic nations have hard-to-penetrate social circles. It's not that they don't like you, they already have their friends and haven't needed to make new ones since college.

\- Culture shock. I guess you actually want that. But remember you can drop a guy from New York in LA and they will not have a problem at all. Take a guy from Edinburgh to Rome, and they are now a tourist. The plus side is it takes a two hour flight to see something completely different, with different looking people, weather, history, and so on.

\- Visa. This is going to depend a lot of the specific country.

Anyway I'm sure you'll have questions.

<comment><AUTHOR> if I have family there do I still need visa to live with them?

<comment><USER41> You will unless they are closely related enough to give you citizenship rights. Nationality law is completely different from country to country within Europe, though.

<comment><AUTHOR> It's my fathers sister.

<comment><USER42> Depends how she got citizenship. If she got it through bloodline, maybe you're eligible too. If not, you can come as a tourist. Probably 3-6 months, depending on country. May be eligible for cheaper visa if you'd supply an invite from her.

Keep in mind that major non-EU countries (US/CA/AU/etc) don't need visa for tourist stuff. You'd get a stamp at airport for x months and that's it.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER43> You are already making a mistake that Europe is a single country, so I'm getting that you never visited it.

Europe is a continent with many countries speaking different languages, with different cultures.

You should be more specific where you want to go.

</comment><comment><USER44> I am neither European nor American and have been living in Copenhagen for about 3.5 years. Here are some observations.

The one big difference is that at the end of the month you would have nothing left to save. And if you plan to move out at a later point you would have neither money nor a useful professional network.

You would not be eligible for most of the good things we hear about socialist states - social housing, paid education.

If you are young and healthy you may not have much to get out of the free healthcare.

Be ready to pay incredibly high rents for private company housing or be homeless constantly, I have moved 9 times in 3.5 years and now I pay more than half my pay in rent+transport to live in a city 100 KMs away (unlimited by expensive).

Language and Credentials: Can be a short term and long term barrier, be ready to start from square one at least on your first job.

Pay: Usually unionised, software engineers earn about average salaries just like everyone else, even though they have diminishing career prospects. I was shocked to learn that CS was the least attractive majors, now I understand why.

Scale and opportunity: There is no critical mass at least in small countries like Denmark so I believe the best opportunities are still the ones in the US, especially if you want to specialise.

I am sure you have heard plenty of the positives of life in Europe and assume it must be the reason for your question.

</comment><comment><USER45> Any idea what country? I lived in different countries in Europe, and I currently live in the US. I can tell by experience that EU countries differ among each other more significantly than US states.

</comment><comment><USER46> I did this: moved to the U.K. for several years. To echo some of the other excellent comments here, I think the main takeaways should be:

1\. Compensation is generally lower than in the US. That's worth keeping in mind depending on your age & long terms plans, if you have those already. Don't let it turn you off from the idea, because living elsewhere can be wonderful, but it's worth being clear that this probably isn't the optimal choice for your bank balance/savings. But it doesn't sound like that's your priority, so that's fine.

2\. If the primary reason for the move is a lifestyle change, I agree with others that the best way to do that is figure out where you want to live & then look for jobs there (or freelance/work remotely if that suits you). From my personal experience & seeing friends go through it with various countries, it's usually fairly straightforward & a company that wants to hire you should be able to help out with the process.

I'll second Berlin as a really good choice for location: culturally very vibrant & has a rapidly growing tech & art scene. I know several people who have moved there in the last few years.

I'll also say I personally loved living in London, and already being fluent in the language has its perks, but that may not be as much of a change as you want.

Good luck!

<comment><AUTHOR> freelancing sounds nice but I'm willing to just work out there and start from the bottom to make my way up.

</comment></comment><comment><USER47> I recently moved for an year's assignment to Amsterdam. Intercompany transfer.

The process has been interesting. The main thing which took time was getting my Birth certificate legalized under The Hague convention a.k.a apostilled. After that it's documentation work which my company lawyer handled. Once I got here it's taken time to get used to the differences but thoroughly enjoy it.

Highly recommend it, if you can. The best route has been this - inter company transfer.

</comment><comment><USER48> A lot of Americans live in Norway:

[https://visitnorway.no/](https://visitnorway.no/)

[https://nav.no/workinnorway/en/Home](https://nav.no/workinnorway/en/Home)

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scandinavian_Americans](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scandinavian_Americans)

</comment><comment><USER20> You can only remain in the Schengen Zone for 90 days every 6 months as a US Citizen. Have you given any thought to your strategy there? Some countries will allow a language learning visa which could help you get some extra time until you get yourself sorted out for work. You don't want to overstay your tourist visa either, as it will likely cause problems for you when you leave and try to come back.

</comment><comment><USER49> Sounds like you want to go travelling, perhaps you can get some contract work from some of those online contract/freelance sites.

You need to decide what your work life balance is to be. If you want to do more soaking up the culture, consider the above option, if you want to do more work and learning then decide what area you want to work in and then look for companies that might present those opportunities. You'll have a mix of costs where ever you go in the world and within a country. I could say lots of jobs in and around Cambridge, and whilst the city is expensive to buy, many students manage the costs of renting shared accomodation, but move outside the city heading anywhere but south towards London and costs can fall.

I guess its a case of setting your standards accordingly. You dont say where your Aunt lives either which might also limit your options.

Here in the UK you can get on the job training as an apprentice, but I dont know if its restricted to just UK Citizens or people from overseas as well.

Perhaps a bit more detail in your Ask HN might help you get more detailed useful info.

</comment><comment><USER50> German here. Had a friend who studied info scienes. He does the tour- as in traversing the Mediterranean coast (Marroko, Porto,Spain,France,Italy, Austria, the Balkan (the european middle east), Greek, Israel - living in AirBnB Flats, working remote. Great landscape, great climate, tax avoiding if you stay in no country longer then the max-tax time.

Con: Sucks if you want a stable live and a family.

</comment><comment><USER51> I dont know the specifics as i'm not a US citizen, but to my knowledge, i think if you earn a wage in another country outside the US, you will have to pay the local taxes and also tax back to the US Gov as well. Someone please correct me or clarify if i'm wrong.

<comment><USER52> There is AFAIK an allowance of up to around US$ 100,000 for wages and similar income, BUT you will have to file taxes on both countries, some reference:

[http://www.expatinfodesk.com/expat-guide/nationality- specifi...](http://www.expatinfodesk.com/expat-guide/nationality-specific- information/americans/us-tax-liability/)

[https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international- taxpayers/fore...](https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international- taxpayers/foreign-earned-income-exclusion)

In the real world, unless you are a "top notch" executive or programmer, etc. it is not-so-easy to reach that amount with European wages.

</comment></comment><comment><USER53> I'm from Amsterdam, lived in the US recently for 2 years (Atlanta). Salaries are lower in the EU, taxes are higher, rents are lower. On the other hand I found many things to be more expensive in the US : health care, car insurance, education, groceries.

I found that in the end it turned out to be more or less the same.

What's left is culture shock, which is actually very good for you, broadening your horizon.

In Europe everything seems smaller though, that's a real difference. Also architecture has more history.

One important advice though, which is true for every country: learn the language!!

</comment><comment><USER54> The first thing you'll need to decide is where you'd like - and if you can go to those places. Most of the time, you'll either need to go to school, work, or marry someone to live there. Some countries have visas for job searching, but it might be difficult without a degree.

For the countries you have relatives in, you'll have to check their immigration policies. Generally only close relatives are eligible for family immigration, but there might be exceptions. You might check schooling in those countries as well.

Good luck!

</comment><comment><USER55> Prepare to be much worse financially. You will earn less, pay higher taxes (as percentage) and will feel much poorer.

Cars, especially nice ones, are much more expensive (in absolute numbers, not only as percentage of income) to buy and own. Petrol is several times the US price.

Rents are higher in most cities (at least compared to income). Maybe only SV is worse compared to Europe.

All tech gadgets are more expensive, roughly at +20% in absolute terms, because of VAT

And yeah, on top of that you get "free" healthcare, which is usually of very questionable quality.

<comment><USER56> Are you trying to spread fud? Because everything you said is either plain wrong or made to sound worse than it is.

1\. All prices in europe include tax, unlike in the US where it's customary to not include tax in the price and pay it at checkout. Stuff tends to be more expensive not just because of VAT but also because of shipping prices and extra consumer protections such as mandatory 2 year warranties.

2\. Just like in the US, rent varies wildly. In Athens you can pay 100€/month for a studio. In London, you'll find that same studio for 10-15 times that depending where you look. "Compared to income" IME it's about equal if not better - please cite your sources.

3\. Healthcare is unquestionably of excellent quality across the board. I've lived in France, the UK, Greece, Sweden, there's no exceptions.

4\. Petrol prices are kinda irrelevant when you don't need a car. European cities are far, far more tightly packed than the west coast. In all capitals you can get all your stuff done by foot, metro or cycling.

What you're somehow forgetting however while complaining about earnings is that as a US citizen, you need to watch out for double taxation when moving to a different country. So I don't know, your post here is actually super counterproductive.

<comment><USER55> What you say is correct. All things have variations. The Athens flat for 100 euro (though I highly doubt the price you cite) has it's equivalence somewhere in cheap cities of the US

I never said that healthcare was "bad", only that it has its problems.

Please note that I didn't say that Europe is worse, just that you'll be worse financially, which I didn't see you disproving.

<comment><USER56> I can cite that price from personal experience :)

You said healthcare is of "questionable quality". Everything has its problems but as far as I'm concerned, healthcare in europe is top notch. You certainly don't hear about "healthcare horror stories" in europe, unlike in the US...

I'm not sure what "worse off financially" even means. It depends. For a long time I was working from home for an international company and earning far more a month than I'd need in a year. Like you said, there are equivalents in the US.

<comment><USER57> And yet you still don't disprove his point. "More than needed in a year" doesn't deny a relatively inferior financial position.

<comment><USER56> Is "working 1 month to be well off for the entire year" an inferior financial position to you?

I have news for you: for nearly the entire rest of the world, it's not. Leave your bubble for the new year, will ya?

<comment><USER55> I also am happy with my financial situation. That doesn't mean that what I said is not true. Salaries which a re "standard" in the US, like 100-150k USD are very hard to attain in Europe, working for European employers. They are certainly not "standard".

<comment><USER56> Not only is that untrue in several places (Zurich, Stockholm, Paris and until recently London) but you simply can't look at it using just the raw numbers; you have to take perks, quality of life and how much you're actually saving up into account.

Six figures is barely enough to keep up with living costs in some parts of SF, whereas in Greece it's 1-2 orders of magnitude lower depending on which part you live in.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER58> I think the cheapest European citizenship you can buy is Maltese citizenship for just €650k + 25-50k each for spouse and children. Maltese citizens have visa-free access to 168 countries and territories, thus ranking the Maltese passport 9th in the world (the highest ranking of all the recent new member states of the EU) according to the Visa Restrictions Index. check out [http://www.maltaimmigration.com/](http://www.maltaimmigration.com/)

<comment><USER59> If you have relatives from Europe look into citizenship via decent. My grandmother was born in Ireland and I was able to acquire Irish citizenship because of that. Now I have dual US/Irish citizenship

<comment><AUTHOR> wow that's cool I'll have to look into it. Thanks

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER60> Go find out. What are your career plans? Do you want to do websites or work in a bar? How do you value short commutes/cheap living costs vs. high incomes? How do you value high income versus rain or snow? if you haven't visited many places in europe, perhaps you have traveled the US can say e.g. "I'd do anything to get Californian climate, I couldn't stand Minnesota"... With some more info we can give you a hint.

<comment><AUTHOR> Cold weather or hot doesn't matter to me. I enjoy everything. I do want to become a web developer eventually doing remote work but until I learn everything to know about freelance web developing I will work at a bar or warehouse whatever it takes to survive out there. Not sure how the whole Visa thing works or if they'll let me stay there past 90 days I got aunt out there

</comment></comment><comment><USER61> What I would do is visit the places you're interested in first without committing to staying. Buy a rail pass and travel from city to city, get a feel of each city for a week or two, network with the people you want to associate with and once you're done, or find something you feel like is exactly what you're looking for start arranging the actual move and getting a job in the city of your choice.

</comment><comment><USER62> Note that USA citizens living abroad, no matter for how long, are required to pay USA income tax. The only way out of this parasitic arrangement is to give up your citizenship. The USA charges hefty fees for citizenship renouncement. They know you're doing it for money and want to squeeze something out of you before you get away for good.

<comment><USER2> This is misleading. Income of up to $101,300 is excluded. Also, tax credits are given if the amount you pay in the country you live in is higher than what you would have been paid in the US.

Given that a salary of $101k in Europe is unlikely, and that taxes are almost always higher in Europe than the US, you do not need to worry about paying income tax to the US.

You do, however, need to file a tax return.

I don't support these policies, but I wanted to clarify things for people who could get scared away by your comment. It really isn't that bad.

When U.S. Citizens Living Abroad Owe U.S. Tax: [http://www.nolo.com/legal- encyclopedia/when-us-citizens-livi...](http://www.nolo.com/legal- encyclopedia/when-us-citizens-living-abroad-owe-us-tax.html)

<comment><USER63> Correct. One thing to remember, the $102,100 Foreign Earned Income Exclusion only applies if you spend 330 days of the tax year abroad or have legal residency in the other country (and even in that case you're not supposed to spend more than a few months residing in the US).

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> I moved US -> UK in July and don't regret it at all. This depended on me getting a tier-2 visa though. This is harder without a degree and programming skill.

If you want recommendations for communicative, knowledgeable, & ethical recruiters in London or Dublin, I'd be happy to connect you. My email is in my profile.

</comment><comment><USER64> I think Europe is going just as nutty as the states, maybe more. I am betting that the national front wins in France and France drops out; after that the euro collapses and we see a monetary nightmare.

<comment><USER65> I would like to take you on that bet. I also wonder if you have ever been to anywhere in Europe.

<comment><USER64> I lived in Germany for a year and have spent time in the UK, Netherlands, Austria, Czech Republic, etc.

Yes, Europe has architecture where the U.S. has decorated sheds. But the social fault lines in Europe aren't that different from the social fault lines in the states.

From day one the pundits have been concerned that effects related to

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impossible_trinity](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impossible_trinity)

would blow up the euro -- i.e. Germany and Italy might have reasons to have different monetary policies. Many economists think the situation is truely intractable (they'd like it if the "Impossible Trinity" was a solid concept) but it certainly is intractable if you don't face the social fault lines head on.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER66> I recommend Prague or Bratislava. You can save a lot and get a job in one of the US corps. People are down to earth. They really like americans and will speak english all the time when you are around.

<comment><USER67> I would also add Wroclaw, Cracow or Warsaw then.

<comment><USER66> Agreed. Awesome cities. Poles are awesome people as well!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER68> Off topic but: is anyone freelancing from Japan? I may be doing this soon and have so many questions for someone who is currently doing this!

</comment><comment><USER69> >I have family in Europe

Then if you specify country where they live may be you will get more specific answers.

<comment><AUTHOR> London UK , and Italy Rome.

<comment><USER70> The job market in Italy (and Rome) is a very closed circle: hard to get into. Best jobs are in the defence sector but those require clearance.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER71> Contact the embassy of the country you want to go to.

</comment><comment><USER72> Do remote work for US company...

<comment><AUTHOR> I can't find even remote work inside the US lol I know HTML, CSS and basic JS

<comment><USER73> Nowadays that's like trying to find work as a mechanic because you know how to change a tire.

I know HTML, CSS, JS, C++, C#, PHP and Hack - and I often can't find work because the bar of competence for many programming jobs still requires knowledge of frameworks, libraries and processes that I don't have experience with, and because the freelance market is global. It can be difficult to tick all the boxes and stand out in a crowd of millions.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> made some changes to my post to clear things up. Thanks everyone for the advices.

</comment><comment><USER74> By all means, do it!

Meanwhile, the best and brightest Europeans come to America.

</comment><comment><USER75> The New World is better for fresh starts than Europe.

<comment><USER76> Source? Not just an opinion please, I mean an _actual_ source - with facts, figures, data. Also, you would have to define what you actually mean by "better" (as well as what "fresh start" really means). Details. What kind of person (with enough relevant details to actually be a useful description) doing what can expect what based on what where exactly (US and Europe are both huge and very diverse places)?

<comment><USER75> I'm not obligated to provide a "source." It's called an opinion. If one seeks merely a "fresh start," then just move somewhere else in the USA. If frustrated with the government, politics, culture of the USA, then move to Europe or some other country.

<comment><USER76> With that attitude you can just pipe /dev/random to the comment section. What's the use of your comments if they contain nothing ob substance? Rhetorical question. I think /r/politics on reddit is far better suited for that kind of "discussion" than HN which aims to be of better quality.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER77> If you ask on HN, and given you're American, you could start by writing more correctly. Reading your "ask" is a bit annoying, it contains so many grammar mistakes. It shows that you did this quickly and without regard to your audience.

<comment><USER78> Keep your grammar-nazism to yourself. Reading shit like this is "a bit annoying".</comment></comment>


In 13 minutes from Kubernetes to a complete application development tool - <AUTHOR> https://about.gitlab.com/2016/11/14/idea-to-production/ <comment><AUTHOR> We've been working hard on making our vision a reality since raising our B-round.

The demo runs a custom build of GitLab (mostly for the Mattermost and terminal integration), but aim to have everything in GitLab by the end of the year.

</comment><comment><USER2> Comments are in [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12954348](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12954348)</comment>


Black Hole Propulsion as Technosignature - <AUTHOR> https://www.centauri-dreams.org/2019/03/06/black-hole-propulsion-as-technosignature/ <comment><USER2> For a captivating exploration of these same ideas in contemporary fiction, try Liu Cixin's The Three Body Problem. As a tip, I enjoyed it much better having not even read the blurb on the back of the book. It spoils events that don't truly unfold until far into the story.

<comment><USER3> The Three Body Problem is officially the most overrated book on Hacker News. I am trying to understand why. It has no soul, the "science" is garbage, not a single character is memorable, it's way, way too long for what it is.

<comment><USER4> It's a sci-fi book with an impressive sense of scale. Every hundred pages or so the story zooms out; from one man's life, to a country's struggle, to a global calamity, to an interplanetary and then galactic crisis, and finally to even higher dimensions.

It does this while threading characters from each stage of "zoom" into future stages, creating for a lot of interesting cross-over plots and sub-plots.

As other commentator's have said, it also wove together Chinese culture with science fiction and history with drama very fluidly.

It was, for me personally, a very "fun" read. Kept me excited at each chapter, and I genuinely didn't know what to expect next. I highly recommend to any sci-fi fans out there, even those like me, who initially didn't think they could stomach around 1,000 pages of a translated-from-Chinese sci-fi novel.

<comment><USER5> > It's a sci-fi book with an impressive sense of scale

Which is not really new. The three books could be condensed a lot. It felt like reading the Dune prequels and sequels: useless details not advancing any plot just to make the book bigger.

It may come from the difference between western and Chinese ways to tell a story. Or the translator job. But they were snooze-fest for 300 pages then 10 pages of something happening then back to boring.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> I love Centauri Dreams. It's hopeful, makes me feel perspective, and realize how small and primitive we are.

We fret every day about consumption, waste, and energy, and here are some people discussing methods of moving planet-sized objects. It's a kind of optimism that's so rare it almost feels outdated.

<comment><USER7> > We fret every day about consumption, waste, and energy,...

I'm afraid we have to keep fretting. In the Numberphile video about the number of particles in the Universe ([https://youtu.be/lpj0E0a0mlU?t=378](https://youtu.be/lpj0E0a0mlU?t=378)), they take an interesting diversion to ask "How long until every particle in the Universe is _inside_ a human being?" In other words, when will we reach the ultimate limit to growth? Well, at the current annualized population growth, it's less than 9000 years! And that scenario involves every human being at that future time floating around naked in the vacuum of space. There is no food to eat, water to drink, nor air to breathe left over.

Practically, this means a couple of things that are less than obvious. First, the best case is that we will reach a point where the growth in volume of the space we occupy will exceed the speed of light. In other words, "long" before 9000 years from now, we will either establish some sort of equilibrium, or we will run up against a hard Malthusian limit. We will absolutely be concerned about "consumption, waste, and energy" in a way that is far more focused than it is now. (The only economic models that are permitted to work are zero- growth models, practically speaking.) Second, to give you an idea of how soon this is coming, the Universe is _much_ larger than 9000 light-years across. That is to say, even if we could manage the resource usage of our 1.011% growth rate optimally, we could never actually fill the Universe in that time frame, as it would take about 15 billion years or so if we were all flinging ourselves outward at very near the speed of light. (n retrospect, these two are restatements of the same idea.)

Finally, and most dismally, the analogous calculation for the Solar System (an infinitely more reasonable calculation to perform) must be abysmally worse and monumentally more urgent. To give you an idea, the current doubling time of human population is something like 60 years. That means, for example, that if we were to anticipate that we'd run out of meaningful room on Earth in 60 years' time, we'd have to start working on our "second home" now, to have it ready. Once it was ready, we'd have to be working on two more. Then four, and so on. Good luck with that!

(Note: After we have consumed the Earth and converted it to habitats, we will have to consume Jupiter in a similar way in about 500 years. This gets out of hand very quickly.)

EDIT: El-oh-el at the few people who's fee-fees were hurt enough by this back- of-the-envelope analysis of growth rates and resource use to downvote it. Keep fighting the good fight, no matter how lonely!

<comment><USER8> Of course, "current annualized population growth" is a hilariously bad assumption to make for the next 9,000 years. I would expect population controls long before having our "second home" prepared that would limit the rate of our population growth to the speed we can realistically expand.

I also don't think humanity will last this long, but as an academic problem it's fun to think about.

<comment><USER9> >Of course, "current annualized population growth" is a hilariously bad assumption to make for the next 9,000 years. I would expect population controls long before having our "second home" prepared that would limit the rate of our population growth to the speed we can realistically expand.

Funny I would have expected that to happen when we started consuming more than the primary production of the planet: [https://www.nationalobserver.com/2017/08/09/opinion/heres- ho...](https://www.nationalobserver.com/2017/08/09/opinion/heres-how-many- earths-we-need-meet-our-populations-demand)

We didn't.

<comment><USER8> This is not a planet-scale phenomenon, though. Any student of geography would know that as nations become more mature their birth rates stabilize to more or less match the death rate. It is the less-developed countries that would suffer first in a world where our planet can no longer support our population, in which case I would expect that either they would go to war with each other over whatever resources can be taken from each other (and also reducing their populations in the process) or else face starvation (again, reducing population). Either way there's a large difference between starvation and saturation. The human race is not endangered by the fact that we'll soon saturate our planet, and those that do starve as a result would simply join a long line of people who have already met the same fate.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Although this article doesn't make it clear, the underlying concepts (like the light slingshot / "halo drive") are explored in more detail in a previous article:

[https://www.centauri-dreams.org/2019/03/05/investigating- the...](https://www.centauri-dreams.org/2019/03/05/investigating-the-halo- drive/)

</comment><comment><USER11> The problem with firing lasers at a black hole light years away is beam spread. Using the biggest best telescopes we currently have, at our admittedly miserable technology level, the tightest beams we can project on as close a target as the moon are kilometres across. Even if we were to create a mirror as wide as a planet to create a beam, it would be many, many times that wide by the time it reached the binary system. It would be further diverged by the slingshot round the black hole (or neutron star), and diverge further again on it's way back to the spacecraft. I don't see any way such a system could be made practical.

<comment><USER12> why is our technology miserable? do you know of a better benchmark out there? if not I would assume this is the most advanced technology <ever>

<comment><USER11> This is literally a discussion about detecting interstellar civilisations using black holes for near light speed travel, and similar technologies we might develop in the future. I am posting in that context.

<comment><USER12> me too since we developed a framework to think about ways to detect more advanced civilizations than us that may not exist. My context is that we are very advanced. But you seem convinced that we are miserable and I guess our difference is pessimistic vs optimistic rather than objective.

<comment><USER11> At every point in human history, current Human technology has been the best technology ever developed. It's a completely useless perspective because it always gives you the same answer under every circumstance that has ever existed.

The discussion we are having now gives an eternal objective reference point - the technology required to exploit the gravitational energy of binary black holes. How advanced would you say our current technology is, compared to that reference point?

<comment><USER12> I don't find this fruitful. Compared to infinite possible intelligence that creatures could conceivably reach either here or other worlds or machines, Einstein was extremely stupid. What good of a convo does it make?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Interesting concept. Why couldn't we do this with matter?

Instead of firing light off at black holes, why not fire some material around a gravity well and allow it to strike the spacecraft in a way that it A) imparts the inertia it has gathered from whatever body you shot it around and B) is captured to be fired again at a new angle according to your new position?

I know there are a ton of logistics to wade through with this, but it should be at least hypothetically possible. It's the same concept as in the article, save for the fact that we are now firing matter around objects we actually can reach in our lifetimes rather than light around black holes that would take an exceedingly long time to propagate.

<comment><USER14> You're proposing to fire some material around a planet in such a way that it comes back to a mothership with more momentum than it started with. Now imagine that instead of going "there and back", you find a trajectory that sends it from planet A, to planet B, then back to the mothership. You're coming back even faster now! Why stop at two planets? Find a trajectory so you can do planet A, planet B, planet C, perhaps planet A again... and so on.

Now just delete the mothership from this picture; the 'material' _is_ the spacecraft itself.

This is a gravity assist, and by stacking enough of them you can basically pick up as much extra delta-V as you want (at least until you reach Solar escape velocity).

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interplanetary_Transport_Netwo...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interplanetary_Transport_Network)

The main drawback is that it can take decades of flying a convoluted series of gravity assists before you get to where you need to go, and that's all within one system.

(The two-body idea you proposed has the same problem. The mothership has to sit there and wait while the matter flies back and forth on multi-year long orbits. Also now you have to figure out how to 'catch' a hypervelocity projectile...)

<comment><USER13> This idea was to try to get AROUND some of the limitations of a gravity assist. For instance, a gravity assist around a large body might require a solar powered spacecraft to be in the shadow of the object for quite some time, rendering the solar panels useless and requiring a radio blackout. Assuming that the method of firing off the projectile and catching it can move gimballed from the rest of the craft, you could allow the ship as a whole to resume the same attitude/trajectory, save for the acceleration of the returning projectiles.

Another thought is that if the projectile were small and aerodynamic enough, you could dip closer into a body's gravity well than the spacecraft could due to atmospheric drag, grabbing more momentum than the spacecraft itself could. The lower periapsis might yeild more delta-v due to the more pronounced Oberth effect than the spacecraft could provide. That's all assuming you don't go TOO far into the atmosphere with the projectile.

<comment><USER15> Or in the case of slingshot around a star, your projectile might be able to take more of a beating than the ship. Something like tungsten balls or something.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> >Remember the methodology: A spacecraft emits a beam of energy at a black hole that is moving towards it, choosing the angles so that the beam returns to the spacecraft (along the so-called 'boomerang geodesic'). With the beam making the gravitational flyby rather than the spacecraft, the vehicle can nonetheless exploit the kinetic energy of the black hole for acceleration.

> Light acts the same way, but light cannot return faster than the speed of > light. Instead, in gaining momentum from the black hole, the light > blueshifts.

How do you get propulsion from blueshifted light?

<comment><USER17> I can see how you gain energy but you're also putting yourself deeper into a gravitational well that you'd have to expend energy to get out of.

Wouldn't it be a wash?

<comment><USER18> We do this fairly regularly with space probes already.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_assist](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_assist)

You steal energy from the object you're slingshotting off. The black holes are slowing (infinitesimally) down every time you do it, gifting their energy to the accelerated object.

Hence the article talking about potentially detecting this sort of behavior by monitoring for prematurely merging and overly eccentric binary black holes.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> So if I shoot a beam of, let's say, a movie or live feed of myself typing this comment around a black hole some 50 light years away precisely enough to have it land back here on earth 100 years in the future, would an observer see back into the past 100 years? ...in the same thread if I observe precisely enough a position near a black hole some N light years away could I see what was happening on the earth N*2 years in the past?

<comment><USER20> Yes, but there's an easier way: use a mirror. Depending on how far you place it, you're looking at yourself in the past.

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> A question for a physicist from a layman. All objects in the universe are connected to each other through gravity, no matter how distant. So what happens to the energy or mass of an object (or total energy/mass) in the expanding universe? As space inflates, the distances are greater between objects, so where the excess of gravitational radiation went to? Can that account for the dark energy?

<comment><USER22> Gravity is not radiation. The expansion of the universe does work against gravity but there are limits. Gravity decreases with distance. So if the universe is expanding fast enough (it is) it will overcome gravity. Imagine setting a bomb off between two asteroids. Use a small bomb and they move apart but eventually drift back. Gravity wins. But use a big enough bomb and they both hit escape velocity. Gravity looses. The objects are moving away from each other fast enough that the force of gravity falls away so fast that it will never turn them around let alone bring them back together.

Dark energy is the concept that while the universe is expanding, gravity wins / everything is at escape velocity, it shouldn't be expanding faster. Dark energy is the fact that the two asteroids separated by the bomb (the big bang) aren't just at escape velocity, something is causing them to accelerate.

<comment><USER23> > Gravity is not radiation.

'Gravitational radiation' is, apparently, a thing; gravity waves basically. It's not _electromagnetic_ radiation tho, which is what I'm guessing what you meant.

I don't think it's crazy to think that gravity is propagated at the speed of light but that we can't, and likely won't ever be able to, measure any gravity waves smaller than those generated by extremely large-gravity systems.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> Why not have an actual black hole on the ship and use the Hawking radiation to gain energy? More [here]([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzZGPCyrpSU&feature=youtu.be...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzZGPCyrpSU&feature=youtu.be&t=461)).

</comment><comment><USER25> > _No fuel is spent aboard the spacecraft which, using stored energy from the > beam, continues to accelerate up to terminal velocity_

Wouldn't fuel need to be expended on the ship to generate the beam? Or is the beam reflected back to the black hole for re-energisation?

<comment><USER26> You reabsorb the beam which now has even more energy because it's been blue- shifted, which means you can actually charge your batteries as well as accelerate.

</comment></comment><comment><USER27> If you think the title of this is pure porn, check out those images!

</comment><comment><USER24> Related: [Black Hole Bomb]([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulCdoCfw- bY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulCdoCfw-bY)).</comment>


The robot that takes your job should pay taxes, says Bill Gates - <AUTHOR> https://qz.com/911968/bill-gates-the-robot-that-takes-your-job-should-pay-taxes/ <comment><USER2> [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13666124](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13666124)

</comment><comment><USER3> Perhaps it should even pay royalties for the knowledge transfer implicit in training.</comment>


Show HN: Jasper – Jekyll Port of Casper, the Medium-Like Ghost Default's Theme - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/Pym/Jasper <comment><USER2> Just a random question: what is the reasoning behind the class name and HTML element choices you made?

For example, [https://github.com/Pym/Jasper/blob/gh- pages/_layouts/page.ht...](https://github.com/Pym/Jasper/blob/gh- pages/_layouts/page.html#L11) has a <section>. Why not <article>?

Another example, why "page-title" and "page-description" on [https://github.com/Pym/Jasper/blob/gh- pages/_includes/header...](https://github.com/Pym/Jasper/blob/gh- pages/_includes/header.html#L16-L17)? Why not just "title" and "description"?

<comment><AUTHOR> The choice was to match Casper as much as possible.

All Jasper's assets came from Casper, so I didn't chose any markup. I just reused Casper templates and translated those for Jekyll :)

Here are the original Casper files related to the two files you mentioned:

[1] [https://github.com/TryGhost/Casper/blob/master/page.hbs#L25](https://github.com/TryGhost/Casper/blob/master/page.hbs#L25)

[2] [https://github.com/TryGhost/Casper/blob/master/index.hbs#L14...](https://github.com/TryGhost/Casper/blob/master/index.hbs#L14-L15)

As you can see if you compare both repositories, Jasper is a direct port of Casper but with less code repetitions!

BTW, here is the <article> you're looking for: [https://github.com/Pym/Jasper/blob/gh- pages/_layouts/page.ht...](https://github.com/Pym/Jasper/blob/gh- pages/_layouts/page.html#L5)

But I can't really answer that second question, I think you'll have to ask Casper authors:

[https://github.com/TryGhost/Casper/blob/master/assets/css/sc...](https://github.com/TryGhost/Casper/blob/master/assets/css/screen.css#L869-L886)</comment></comment>


10 things that drive me crazy about current operating systems - <AUTHOR> http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/10things/?p=1672 <comment><USER2> I hope to one day have an OS that operates something like the lifestream idea that was developed at Yale- <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lifestreaming>.

Along with a file system that is more like a database ala what was in the BeFS.</comment>


Ask HN: Returning lists and totals: best way? - <AUTHOR>

Let's say I have an application, and each user has about 100,000-ish items stored.
They can add tags and properties to those, and I need to be able to return a list of items for any combination of tags/properties.
In sql, that would be select * from tablex where property1=x and property2=y and so on. Or a join. But that tends to be slow-ish?
I also need to be able to return the total amount (count) of items easily for each of these lists.
Using, say, mysql doesn't seem superappropriate/easy/fast/scalable for this scenario, is there a good/easy way (one of the new nosql things perhaps) to do something like this? <comment><USER2> _In sql, that would be select from tablex where property1=x and property2=y and so on. Or a join. But that tends to be slow-ish?_

Huh? It most definitely would not be the query you indicate-- that's a terrible, terrible way to store your data in this case.

What you want is a join between the Item table and the Property table, and that should be lightning fast, if you have your indexes built properly.

You neglect to say how many users you have, or how many concurrent queries you're expecting, or how quickly changing the data is, or what kind of hardware platform you're running on, so it is hard to talk about how easy/fast/scalable mysql would be.

I'd suggest you just code a prototype using whatever database server you are most familiar with, and run some benchmarks to test the scaling.

<comment><AUTHOR> Upvoted, that's likely the correct answer :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> While splitting it up into multiple tables is probably a better design, that still doesn't solve the problem of needing "to return a list of items for any combination of tags/properties".

What I would suggest in this case is some fairly heavy-handed front-end programming in which you determine the SQL code to execute based on the props/tags your user has queried upon. One thing you do not want to do it to use dynamic SQL for fear of both SQL injection and the performance. This is done in almost every app w/ search or dropdown functionality - I'd suggest you find some open source projects in your languages that do it and copy/learn.</comment>


The Curious Case of Human Hibernation - <AUTHOR> http://inhumanexperiment.blogspot.com/2010/03/curious-case-of-human-hibernation.html

<comment><USER2> i recently have been thinking about the potential of sleep extension as a path to immortality

in the film Space Station 76 there is a grandma in a cryo pod being wheeled around as 'luggage', this visual set my mind off:

(i) imagine a false future where cryo has become practical to the point that all people, instead of dying, simply cryo themselves at near death, the hope is to stunt any further aging, turning what would have been five years of living into 500 years of cryo in the hope that immortality will be medically possible by that time where they can then be woken and live forever, the comedy of it all is that it will fall on younger generations to tend to their lineage.. everyone will have huge warehouses full of old family members that you will have to protect and drag around with you, family as furniture: certain figures with interesting life stories will be stored in the living room as a mantel piece while the majority will be stored in the warehouse; the numbers increasing with every generation more that lacks medical immortality

(ii) then i was thinking.. what if sleep, a completely unexplained phenomenon, is an untapped resource? sleep seems to me a means of organising new information in the brain and healing the body, what if there is research that extends the time we sleep in order to optimise these procedures, what if instead of limiting our sleep with amphetamines and caffeine we looked to increase the time we sleep, another imagined future where we live for 70 years and sleep for 70, missing an entire generation, waking again for another 70, to sleep then for another 70, how interesting to lose our culture and find ways to symbiotically live in the new, what kind of infrastructure would be needed.. long term sleep rental space, protecting the sleeping

ideally, we will be able to achieve the health benefits of sleep in wakefulness, but it just seemed a new to me and interesting meditation to think on potential benefits by altering conditions and internal processes to sleep actively

</comment><comment><USER3> I wonder if these suspended states they talk about later in the article would actually extend your life for the duration of the suspended state. I presume the aging processes also slow down or stop. Perhaps this is a more realistic option for near-death people wanting to come back to life in the future than cryogenics.

<comment><USER4> It doesn't seem a realistic option for near-death (of old age) people, as it's probably too late to try to do something about it.

It would make much more sense not to wait to be near death to do something about it.</comment></comment>


Show HN: a text editor for the iPad with GitHub commit support - <AUTHOR> http://worqshop.com/

<comment><AUTHOR> Hi HN, the developer here.

Short story: I quit my job last year and spent half a year to develop this. It's still small, a minimum viable product, and I'm adding more features (and fixing bugs).

The goal is to have an IDE for the iPad and not just another editor (Simplenote, Evernote, etc).

At the moment, it supports importing projects from GitHub and pushing changes to GitHub. But, with the GitHub web hooks you can do some nice things: update your GitHub pages, deploy your app to AppHarbor or StackMob from your iPad, etc…

<https://github.com/blog/961-deploy-to-appharbor-from-github> [http://www.stackmob.com/devcenter/docs/StackMob-Hosted- HTML5...](http://www.stackmob.com/devcenter/docs/StackMob-Hosted- HTML5:-GitHub)

There are a few bugs that I discovered yesterday. So, please bear with me :)</comment>


Show HN: CUVE, using tiles UI that can diagonalize and transform coordinates - <AUTHOR>

Hello everyone, We've been working on an online test prep service called CUVE. CUVE is a multi-dimensional, metro-UI-based coordinate map that transforms (in a relativistic way) based on user inputs. It helps users discover the shortest path to master a given subject. In addition, we're planning to differentiate by developing educator/tutor-focused functions, such as questions editing and lessons curation.
Now, we face two critical questions as we try to decide our focus while preparing to apply for accelerators this year.
1. what should we focus, user acquisition or more demo-grade functions? User acquisition would require enhancing our Discovery algorithm and completing admin-related functions. These functions will help us acquire more test-taker users.
On the other hand, if we do more demo functions, we will develop tutor-focused use cases, such as questions editor. Given our time constraints, these will be demo-grade and we probably won't be able to market them to acquire users.
2. what accelerator should we target, general (Y Combinator/Techstar) or education-focused (Imagine K12)? This is somewhat related to the first question because if we target education-focused accelerator, we would focus more on demo-grade functions for educators/tutors as they play a significant role in the ecosystem. FYI, we already tried for Y Combinator twice but never got invited for an interview so we're thinking that we may not be the right fit...although we'll probably try again.
So given those considerations, we'd really appreciate if you experts can help us with comments. Thanks in advance.
www.cuve.me <comment><AUTHOR> clickable [http://www.cuve.me/](http://www.cuve.me/)</comment>


Building a search engine? The most important feature you can add - <AUTHOR> http://searchco.de/blog/view/building-a-search-engine-the-most-important-feature-you-can-add

<comment><USER2> Great point! This makes sense for techies - I tried hard to give Bing a good run, but found myself hitting google.com too often (after looking at the results). " !g" would have definitely made Bing sticky for me!

I used to work on a search product. Interestingly, a lot of layman users don't even realize which search they use. So this would not help for any real gain in numbers for the search engines adopting it (other than in the tech community).

There was a time when mywebsearch (or some such search engine) had its stats very close to the numbers of a very popular torrent client. Needless to say, a mini-survey revealed the users did not even realize their browser's home page had been hijacked (when they installed the torrent client)! They thought they were "googling" (results might have been powered by Google, but thats not the point.)

</comment><comment><USER3> Hi!

I work for DuckDuckGo and happened to catch your article here. I noticed that despite your praise, a few of the engines you mentioned were missing bangs. We've just added !gigablast (!giga), !procog (!pc), and !verticalset (!vs). The rest already have !bangs (note that MSN/Live/Bing are the same, as are Altavista/Yahoo).

We also accept new !bangs at <https://duckduckgo.com/newbang.html>

Thanks!

<comment><AUTHOR> Good to hear :) I was wondering to contact. Rather the ask Gabriel this works :)</comment></comment>


Wikipedians join push for Fair Use in Aust. after 6 Gov't reports recommend it - <AUTHOR> https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20170524/06585137445/wikipedians-join-push-fair-use-australia-after-six-government-reports-recommend-it.shtml <comment><AUTHOR> Wikipedians in Australia are running banners to raise awareness that they ALREADY benefit from Fair Use; that schools must pay to use freely accessible websites; and that common activities like sharing memes or just forwarding an email is technically not allowed. Blogpost: [https://blog.wikimedia.org/2017/05/22/australia-fair- use/](https://blog.wikimedia.org/2017/05/22/australia-fair-use/) Aussies are encouraged to write to their MP at [https://www.faircopyright.org.au/take- action/#emailform](https://www.faircopyright.org.au/take-action/#emailform)

Social media on: #FairCopyrightOz

<comment> e-sushi Makes Australia more inviting... again.</comment></comment>


Bernie Sanders lawyers to Wikipedia: Take down our logo, you're violating DMCA - <AUTHOR> http://arstechnica.co.uk/tech-policy/2016/01/bernie-sanders-campaign-sends-dmca-notice-to-wikipedia-over-logos/ <comment><USER2> The Sanders campaign very quickly withdrew their request: [http://boingboing.net/2016/01/15/bernie-sanders-campaign- wit...](http://boingboing.net/2016/01/15/bernie-sanders-campaign-withdr.html)</comment>