USDA is down - <AUTHOR> http://www.usda.gov/ <comment><USER3> I realize that people are a little annoyed at this tact, and think it is melodramatic. But consider:

* The servers may be hosted on a cloud system, and there is now no way to pay for them. (Even if the bill is due in 4 days, the employees can't do the work 4 days from now, they have to do it now.)

* Some of the information may be time sensitive, and the submission of forums may rely on employee feedback. These services may not be easy enough to remove in the time they have available to shut-down.

* Even if hosted in house, if the systems break, or are hacked into, then nothing can be done fix them. Better to deploy a hardened static page now than be infected with malware running massive botnets when they get back.

* They may have to turn off the utilities to their server farm, so they can't support anything but a simple static page.

* They have 4 hours to do all that, fill out some paperwork, and still make a backup, and whatever other responsibilities they have (like internal servers).

The USDA in specific also handles dynamic data from across the country, so more than some, they have worries about being hacked and having their data screwed with.

<comment><USER4> I'm not sure I understand. Let's say there's a need to have people be on call for the site 24/7 - for many sites it's not the case but let's assume they need it. But these people don't need to be paid hourly. They most probably get salary at the end of the payroll period (monthly or bi-weekly) as everybody else. And even if shutdown would continue that long, they'd just get paid at the next pay period. Now, it may be possible that some people would say "we won't work if we don't know we'd be paid in time" \- but they don't know that either way, and their salary probably is not contingent on specific work.

Same with cloud hosting and any other expense - I have hard time believing it is billed hourly. Most probably it is billed monthly - and by the time this months' bill arrives shutdown would be long over. And even if it isn't, I've worked in the past with govt organizations, and not all of them always were the most accurate payers - but I rarely seen any contractor refusing govt job because of that. Everybody knows eventually it will be paid.

So I don't see the reason for the drama. It's not like US government suddenly has no money at all. It's a temporary technical issue with administering cash flows, and everybody knows it is temporary and everybody knows the bills will eventually be paid.

<comment><USER5> > It's not like US government suddenly has no money at all. It's a temporary > technical issue with administering cash flows, and everybody knows it is > temporary and everybody knows the bills will eventually be paid.

Sure, it may be temporary. But the most recent federal government shutdown (in '96) lasted 21 days. Which is certainly enough time for issues/vulnerabilities to appear. It's unlikely this one will last as long, but regardless, I don't find it beyond reason that an IT team being furloughed could determine that allowing an un-maintained, un-monitored, site to remain publicly accessible could pose a security risk, or provide out-of-date information that otherwise appears to be authoritative.

<comment><USER4> What you mean "may be"? Do you seriously entertain a possibility that US government as of today has ceased to exist and US government bills will never be paid?

You must have misunderstood what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that there's absolutely no need to wait for 21 days for issues to appear, because the same people may do the same maintenance as always and there's absolutely no need to leave the site un-maintained. Of course, staff can be reduced - no new developments, no updates, no proofreaders, no marketing, no answering emails, etc. - to avoid taking too much un-budgeted obligations. But no one doubts there obligations will be repaid, so I don't see the issue here.

>>> provide out-of-date information that otherwise appears to be authoritative.

This is easily solved by putting one line on top of the page that says "All information is as available by 10.01.2013 and can be out of date". I admit, it's much less drama, but it's possible.

<comment><USER3> Besides the fact that it is illegal ([http://www.bsnlawfirm.com/newsletter/OP0413_Natter.pdf](http://www.bsnlawfirm.com/newsletter/OP0413_Natter.pdf)) employees are NOT guaranteed to get their money. In the past congress has sometimes not provided backpay.

Also, if the website gets hacked, without sys-admins to fix it, the server's data could be corrupted or stolen, backdoors installed, ect.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> What the USDA is doing is called "Washington Monument Syndrome".

It is a political tactic, wherein you deny the public access to the most visible aspects of a government operation during a period of budget cuts. You will notice all government agencies ceasing stuff like twitter accounts, which cost virtually nothing to operate.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Monument_Syndrome](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Monument_Syndrome)

<comment><USER7> > What the USDA is doing is called "Washington Monument Syndrome".

Where will all the school kids visit if the USDA website is down? What about all of the international tourists that finally made the trip to the USDA website?

You make a completely valid comparison, because everyone knows that after the Washington Monument, the USDA is the most beloved site.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> Actual information on the effects of the shutdown on the USDA, for those interested in that sort of thing: [http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/09/30/usa-fiscal- agricul...](http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/09/30/usa-fiscal-agriculture- idUSL1N0HQ1W420130930)

<comment><USER9> Now that is very interesting. According to this article, earlier this year meat and poultry inspectors were designated 'essential personnel', meaning that they can continue to work even during a government shutdown. This is important because it's against the law to sell meat in the US if it hasn't been inspected by a USDA inspector.

Imagine the outcry if this government shutdown meant that all meat and poultry sales in the US halted until an agreement was reached.

<comment><USER10> I'd be one happy vegetarian!

<comment><USER11> Would you? Economic forces would drive up the cost of your fodder.

<comment><USER10> In the short-term perhaps, but if it lasted a while the reverse would be true as the market would be flooded with excess fodder production that would drive down the price of my fodder (Amount of grain needed to end extreme hunger - <USER2> million tonnes. Amount of grain fed to animals in the West - 540 million tonnes. United Nations)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> Ironically, you can't straightforwardly get to the USDA contingency plans. The whitehouse.gov link on the page points to an index of all the contingency plans (across the federal government). Unfortunately, the entries for the USDA plans are just links pointing back to usda.gov...

I'd imagine you might get somewhere at archive.org (and there may well be other ways to get them from a .gov source), but still...

</comment><comment><USER13> Is this purely symbolic, or is there some real sense in which replacing the USDA website with a placeholder saves the government a measurable amount of money?

<comment><USER14> Symbolic really. The same servers are sitting there, just idle rather than pumping out pages.

<comment><USER15> If they have legal requirements like a report of contamination or unsafe conditions is investigated within N days after being received their only option may be to not accept the report at all. Unless everybody involved in the whole process is an essential worker.

<comment><USER16> Reports of contamination would most likely go through the FDA for announcements.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> I fully expect Obama and Democrats to use every available tactic to make this as painful as possible for the population.

They truly need to have the US wake-up to an apocalyptic scenario. Anything less than that and people are going to see that the emperor has no clothes. If they could have airplanes falling out of the sky, they would. If they truly use such tactics I really hope people take them to task for it. With nearly four million people working for the federal government --a good deal of them solidly in the Democrat camp-- I fully expect them to terrorize us by fucking things up to the extent of their abilities.

As for the argument of cloud servers and other services in the private sector causing shutdowns, the question is very simple: Anyone thinking that the US isn't going to pay for these services is a moron. This shutdown will last as long as it does and then everyone will get their checks. Anything to the contrary is pure theater.

I just got an email from whitehouse.gov full of FUD. It's a disgrace that whitehouse.gov is being used this way (this isn't the first time). Democrats would raise hell if Republicans were in power and used whitehouse.gov for partisan propaganda. What a shame.

Tomorrow is likely to be the US politics version of Kabuki Theater. Could be fun to watch.

</comment><comment><USER18> It's likely this is more than political. There's a lot of work they'd need to do to disable just the parts of the site that would cease to function without backend staff, or place appropriate disclaimers on out-of-date information, which drives literally billions of dollars in economic activity.

Four hours isn't enough time for that.

<comment><USER5> A shutdown risk appears every three or so months due to reliance on short term continuing resolutions to fund the government. Most recently, formal preparations began several weeks ago.

[http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/memoranda/...](http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/memoranda/2013/m-13-22.pdf)

<comment><USER19> Yep. This situation is something that can easily be prepared for.

This is probably either mismanagement or political posturing. (I'd bet the latter.)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> The healthcare.gov site certainly works. This whole thing is nothing more than two fat guys arguing over the last piece of sausage. It's theater. From my perch in Avignon, France it's actually pretty entertaining. Watching Sheila Jackson Lee's caps-lock shouting 'speech' and wondering if the speaker of the House is going to start crying is good fun.

</comment><comment><USER21> Somehow Heaven's Gate still manages to keep its site going fifteen years after its members committed suicide.

<comment><USER22> There are some advantages to having a purely static-HTML website, in terms of unattended maintainability.

In addition to the government, it seems many companies don't have one anymore. If servers get compromised, it's common for companies to just take the whole site down pending a fix, and replace it with a single HTML splash page. If they had a full-featured static-HTML version of the site, they could fail over to something more complete than one HTML page, but that seems uncommon.

</comment></comment><comment><USER23> This is a little confusing. The USDA's website is presumably hosted on some server, so what exactly is preventing it from remaining online?

I mean, the domain is clearly still here, and there's a web page serving that error, so...

<comment><USER24> Just speculating, but perhaps the IT person(s) responsible for maintaining the site are nonessential, and considered a simple placeholder safer than leaving the full site online and unattended?

<comment><USER3> That IT person has 4 hours to shut-down the agency internet presence for an indeterminate amount of time. Also, their server farm may not have power in 4 days, better to set up a simple website on some "essential" box somewhere.

Especially since the USDA receives information from across the country and performs statistical analysis. It would be safer to shutdown the dynamic services rather than let it get hacked. In 4 hours they probably do not have enough time to separate dynamic and static information when they also have to do a backup and a bunch of paperwork.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> nsa.gov is still up, so they do have some priorities.

<comment><USER26> They're down now, although it almost seems more like a DDoS ("Taking too long to respond").

<comment><USER27> It actually looks like they withdrew their A records. anl.gov is having the same issue (Though strangely enough, not mirror.anl.gov, so thankfully my systems can still update.)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER28> PR stunt or massive budget decreases in government services? Either way it's not a good place to be in as a country.

<comment><USER29> My guess is more the former than the latter.

Then again, federal spending can be pretty funky in how Congress requires it be spent. I'd love to see all the information on how the decision to shut down the site was made.

<comment><USER3> Well if they have a server farm or cloud server on which the website is hosted it likely needs power and bandwidth (or money for a cloud service). Either they disappear completely or put up a static page.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> Does anyone know who designates essential personnel? (5 mins of Google didn't return an answer)

Could the President designate all federal employees as "essential," to circumvent the budget requirement? (Yes, this would be a power grab by the Executive branch)

</comment><comment><USER30> Just got en email from a client who is with the Dept. of Agriculture and he said "it looks like the government is shutting down on Tuesday" and for the life of me I just couldn't understand what that was referring to.

</comment><comment><USER31> Yeah who needs that pesky regulation of food quality anyway.

Now if gun permits were suspended, it would get an exemption almost immediately.

<comment><USER32> Your gun permit is in the bill of rights. Why do you need a web site for that?

<comment><USER31> So is your right to vote - why do we need voter registration?

<comment><USER26> Where?

<comment><USER31> 14th, 15th, 19th, 23rd, 24th, 26th amendments?

Took them awhile to get it spelled out. But it also took them 100 years to end slavery.

One might also suggest the freedom from searches and seizures is also fairly clear. Be sure to tell that the TSA agent that is groping your genitals. Oh and the TSA is still fully funded.

<comment> fsck--off The Constitution does not explicitly give you the right to vote in the same way that it gives you the right to free speech.

Wikipedia has this to say about it:

"The "right to vote" is not explicitly stated in the U.S. Constitution except in the above referenced amendments, and only in reference to the fact that the franchise cannot be denied or abridged based solely on the aforementioned qualifications. In other words, the "right to vote" is perhaps better understood, in layman's terms, as only prohibiting certain forms of legal discrimination in establishing qualifications for suffrage. States may deny the "right to vote" for other reasons."

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_rights_in_the_United_St...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_rights_in_the_United_States)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER33> What has a funding got to do with a website being up, the servers are still running.

</comment><comment><USER31> tsa.gov is still fully operational [http://www.tsa.gov/](http://www.tsa.gov/)

<comment><USER3> Well that's basically just a static blog site anyway. The USDA site had dynamic information, statistics, graphs. The IT infrastructure for USDA is probably much more complicated than the TSA.

</comment></comment><comment><USER34> If it's down, don't link to it.

</comment><comment><USER35> NSA.gov is down.

[http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/nsa.gov](http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/nsa.gov)

<comment><USER36> [http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/www.nsa.gov](http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/www.nsa.gov)

<comment><USER37> <spoiler alert>

It's just you. [http://www.nsa.gov](http://www.nsa.gov) is up.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER38> Wow, such melodrama.

</comment><comment><USER39> How cute.

</comment><comment><USER40> A pandering PR stunt by an overgrown bureaucracy. (The USDA is the home of the rabbit inspectors, bravely protecting our children from risky pet bunnies.)

<comment><USER41> So the USDA is largely responsible for our having some of the safest food on the planet. I mean you can mock it all you want, but if USDA meat inspectors aren't there to watch over the production; you might want to consider becoming a lot more vegetarian for a while. I mean, unless you really like eating cows infected with MRSA or Mutton with a side of scrapie...

Seriously, if meat inspection goes by the wayside for any length of time; people will die, because it won't be anybody's job to make sure the meat is safe and the folks who run meat-packing plants don't like that they can't wring every last bit of profit out of every animal they buy.

<comment><USER42> Can I get a citation for any of this? It was my understanding that the USDA allows cattle to be fed "cage lining" which is chicken feathers, poop and feed taken from the bottom of chicken cages. The chicken feed, in turn, contains cattle meat and trimmings, thus making your "side of scrapie" scenario a small but significant possibility.

In other words, what makes you think the USDA is not beholden to the commercial interests that it regulates, like every other government agency?

<comment><USER41> [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foodborne_illness#Epidemiology](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foodborne_illness#Epidemiology)

Look at the difference in Salmonella rates between the US and France for instance.

And yes, regulatory capture is an issue with the FDA, that has periodically resulted in scandals; but the meatpacking industry knows that without some obvious checks on their hygiene their industry as a whole is worse off. If one plant cuts too many corners and starts shipping moldy meat, the entire industries sales suffer; so it's in the meat companies interest to have someone policing defectors from good practices.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER43> Oh emm gee. what will we do without google cache?</comment>


Tesla V100 Inside Wind Power Plant [video] - <AUTHOR> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlZ2KmLvpZE <comment><USER2> I upvoted because this seems so strange and meaningless. Maybe somebody can explain why it can be economic to scatter their servers all over the countryside? It's not like the cost of transferring renewable electricity is the issue here. I would think that maintenance, data transfer etc. are more costly.

First I thought that it just demonstrates portability, but [https://examesh.de/en/](https://examesh.de/en/) really does this

>AI Docker Instances in Wind Power Plants -We only operate Instances in green power plants, as our short video shows.

>Small RE plants, such as our Nordtank 600 60/43 with 600 kWp, are equipped with only one Edge Data Center (EDC). Two servers are currently installed in each EDC, each providing three Instances. Larger RE plants, however, can be equipped with two, three, four or even more EDCs.[https://examesh.de/en/faqs/#faq-4490](https://examesh.de/en/faqs/#faq-4490)

<comment><AUTHOR> The issue we are tackling is the Renewable Energy Sources Act (see [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Renewable_Energy_Source...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Renewable_Energy_Sources_Act)) in Germany. As of 2021 up to 6.000 wind turbines drop out and will no longer earn enough money from selling their energy. Therefore they must be switched off. With our EDC we are able to provide the operator with a second revenue stream.

The economic effect: Continued operation of the wind turbine. The EDC only uses ~5% of the generated power. ~95% of green electricity will be fed to the grid.

Side effect: Preparing for the upcoming need of Edge Data Centers.

<comment><USER2> The point I don't understand why EDC's have to be located in the turbines.

As far as I understand, Germany has good energy market. You can build datacenter where it is the most economic and buy the electricity from the supplier. The cost of locating data centers this ineffectively must make the network cost and maintenance very expensive.

<comment><AUTHOR> See Section "Why in RE Plants?": [https://examesh.de/en/edge- dc/](https://examesh.de/en/edge-dc/) and [https://examesh.de/en/fact-checking- the-renewable-energy-sou...](https://examesh.de/en/fact-checking-the- renewable-energy-sources-act/)</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: Is this a bad business model? - <AUTHOR>

Traditionally, I think a great deal of companies (FogCreek, 37signals, etc...) start out consulting to get regular income and build a product they can sell over time and eventually move away from the consulting business.
I think this is a great idea and it seems to work well.  However, since I already have a full time job that I enjoy and don't plan on leaving any time soon, I figured I would just skip the consulting phase and go straight into developing software products.
The idea was to focus on small businesses that may not have the money to hire someone to build a complete software application for them and leverage their business knowledge in a niche market to build the software they want and sell it to them in license format later.
On the surface, this seems win-win since the business owner gets software built on the cheap, and my company can sell the software to whoever we want when we're finished since we own everything.
However, this hasn't quite gone as planned.  The small business owner I'm working with keeps expecting each iteration of development to be production ready and tries to go out and use the software right away.  He then gets upset when it doesn't do what he expected (which, he's not 100% sure about in the first place).
The problem is, I don't have the domain knowledge of what the software needs to do.  And the other guy doesn't really know what software is capable of doing.  This is OK if both parties are willing to work on growing the software iteratively, which is what I thought I made clear we were going to do in the beginning.
To make matters worse, I'm 99% sure he's either sold or given a copy of the software to at least one of his friends who owns a similar business.
So, at the end of the day.  I get all of the stress of a consultant with none of the payoff.  I've only sold one license to this guy and I doubt he'll buy any more.
I'm definitely not going to bail on this project.  I'm proud of the software I'm building and I think it will grow into something worthwhile.  I just think I went about this the wrong way.
Is this a dumb idea?  It hasn't worked out well for me so far, but I don't know if this is the norm.
Have any of you tried something like this before?  If so, how did it go?
Thanks for the advice. <comment><USER2> I don't think the problem is with the model-- I've used that model before, succesfully. In fact, the Norwegian government's development fund considers this model to be preferred for projects they finance.

Rather, your problem is one of communication. You even say as much when you write: _The small business owner I'm working with keeps expecting each iteration of development to be production ready and tries to go out and use the software right away. He then gets upset when it doesn't do what he expected_

It's your job to make sure he understands the process, and what the deliverables are.

And: why aren't you getting the payoff (in the form of domain knowledge)?

<comment><AUTHOR> Good point. I feel like I'm making myself clear about the process, but maybe I'm missing something. I think in the future I need to write out some sort of business relationship agreement that states my intents as a company and lets the small business know what they should expect from me and what I expect from them.

I don't think that's too much to ask since the business is actually getting immediate value from this agreement, mine doesn't come until later.

I definitely get payoff with domain-knowledge (instead of money at this point) which, I don't mind. I just didn't want to keep trying to make this business model work if I was going to continually sacrifice cash for domain knowledge. I want to make money eventually :P

It's nice to hear that this model can (and frequently does) work. I really like the idea and I think there is a lot of potential to create useful products. This is my first attempt and I knew that there were going to be bumps along the way, I just didn't want to keep trying something that doesn't work.

Thanks for your advice. I really appreciate it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> Hmmm, you have the wrong "partner" to begin with...

> I don't have the domain knowledge of what the software needs to do

This is critical. If you don't know this, you will not succeed and your projects will take forever to see the day light... If your small business will not provide you with the necessary info, you can't expect it to work and go sell it to others in the same niche.

My advice is look for a competitor and show them what you've got. Interact and improve the software.

<comment><AUTHOR> Good idea. Actually, the software is at a state where I could start giving out beta keys to a few other companies and get their feedback.

Also, I would get the added benefit of learning how multiple companies in the same market operate.

I totally get your comment about domain knowledge being critical. And, I have learned quite a bit about how this market works. But, at the end of the day, I'm not going to know nearly anything about, say, being a mechanic than an actual mechanic with 10 years of experience will know.

This is what I'm trying to tap in to here. I get the benefit of domain knowledge in an area I know nothing about and get to write software for that market.

I just don't think I'll ever get to the stage where I know as much as these guys, especially since I'm not doing the actual work.

<comment><USER3> Yes, you will not know as much as those guys but you will know plenty to get it done...

As long as your software gives them some kind of advantage and they see value in it, you'll do fine...</comment></comment></comment>


Scientists are studying what it takes to kill "super coral" - <AUTHOR> https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/25/science/coral-reefs-oil-spills.html <comment><USER2> Are we sure releasing new engineered corals is a good idea? I get the whole replacement, thing and protecting biodiversity that the corals help protect. However, this could be bad long term, what if there's a blight that affects that specific coral. What if there's something we don't realize about the distribution of species of coral that is important to the overall ecosystem.</comment>


The History of Sears Predicts Nearly Everything Amazon Is Doing (2017) - <AUTHOR> https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/09/sears-predicts-amazon/540888/?single_page=true <comment><USER3> Somewhat related tangent (sorry), but see also this thread about how radical the Sears catalog was in the era of Jim Crow:

[https://twitter.com/louishyman/status/1051872178415828993](https://twitter.com/louishyman/status/1051872178415828993)

<comment><USER4> A little further down in that thread there's a link to an article about Sears mail order homes. I live in a century old neighbourhood and there's a couple dozen Sears homes within a 3 block radius of me. They're still standing, still lived in, still looking good. They were built to last.

<comment><USER5> I live in one of the Sears catalog homes. Still haven't figured out exactly which one, as it has had some additions and changes made in the intervening years (its a 1927). Seems well enough built. Except for the electrical - <USER2> and tube is a crazy way to do it.

<comment><USER6> It's what they had at the time. My knob and tube was installed by someone very skeptical of electricity. So they ran the hot and the neutral about two feet from each other. They only come together at the outlets and the fuse panel.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> If Amazon buys Sears it will be a mind-boggling Inception of Amazon's present history predicting its own past's future. What, OMG?!

I can actually see this happening. Sears locations might make pretty decent mini-DCs/Echo sales centers. Ironically, I feel like they could turn Sears into Borders and do OK. A mini DC center in the back- this could allow for 2 hour deliveries to more suburnban/rural locations. In the front they could have shelves of Kindle files printed out on paper. I know, it sounds like Ye Olde Book Store, but here an Echo thingy would replace the Dewey Decimal or human employee. Alexa would manifest as a racially and gender ambiguous animatron who would not only answer your questions but also serve free Kombucha when you pick up your prescriptions or sign up for a checking account (cash converts to Amazon credits).

I can see Amazon making them mini-malls within existing malls until the already struglling other stores can't exist anymore. Once Amazon has the entire mall- well that is when things get crazy!

<comment><USER8> I have been inaccurately predicting this for a few years (with a variety of big box stores/ many location stores).

I think what I was most wrong about is AMZN thinks a lot about the geographic overlap of their customers and where they will shop. That is why the Whole Foods purchase was so brilliant. Both the overlap of wallets shopping in at both AMZN (prime) and WF.

I wonder how well Sear's store footprint fits with the AMZN customer base.

<comment><USER9> With wealth and income gap divide, there not much room to bet big on the non- rich part of town. Find the Whole Foods and and Apple Store and Nordstroms and that's the mall or shopping area that will support higher profit margins.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Related, a recent episode of 99% invisible about all kind of houses (even schools) sold by Sears by Mail [https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/the- house-that-came-i...](https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/the-house-that- came-in-the-mail/)

<comment><USER11> The house I grew up in was purchased from sears in 1919 or sometime right around then. Apparently the house shipped as a kit via rail.

<comment><USER12> So can we expect to be living in Amazon houses soon?

Alibaba already have them, eg [https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Strong- luxury-Modern-...](https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Strong-luxury- Modern-Prefab-Light- steel_60116320365.html?spm=a2700.galleryofferlist.normalList.277.141e629fMLEDBo)

Hotels too [https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Modern-Holiday-Inn- Lu...](https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Modern-Holiday-Inn-Luxury-Hotel- Design_60641156714.html?spm=a2700.galleryofferlist.normalList.156.141e629fMLEDBo)

I quite like the look of the house

<comment><USER13> Amazon feels like a a regular store to me. I find things that I would expect. Alibaba always feels like Amazon with no rules, and it is awesome. If a vendor wants to sell a house they can, and if a consumer wants a kit house they can just contact them. I think the marketplace feel makes it a lot more interesting.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> Vastly superior to this article is this legendary MetaFilter comment on the same topic:

[https://www.metafilter.com/62394/The-Record-Industrys- Declin...](https://www.metafilter.com/62394/The-Record-Industrys- Decline#1742245)

<comment><USER15> Still not the biggest such blunder, even in the late 20th century. That dubious honor must go to Xerox. They created a research org (Palo Alto Research Center or PARC) and tasked it with pushing the state of the art in the industry, which it did. Xerox PARC invented the GUI, ethernet, laser printing, WYSIWYG editors and desktop publishing, bitmapped graphics, the smalltalk language, the MVC design pattern, and more, all in the late 1970s. Xerox corporate leadership looked at this stuff (especially the ALTO computer which represented the culmination of most of these innovations) and couldn't see a future in it, so they shit-canned it. A few years later other companies (specifically Apple and Microsoft) toured Xerox PARC and learned a great deal about these things then repackaged it in their own forms (the Macintosh and Windows). Meanwhile, some PARC employees quit and spun out their own startups using the technology (3COM and Adobe).

Billions upon billions of dollars and entire industries (graphic arts and digital design, ethernet based networking, the home desktop computer, etc.) were built up out of the technologies that Xerox simply left abandoned on the roadside because they were too myopic.

<comment><USER16> IMHO, this shows why you cannot judge creativity only through the free market (i.e. measure the creative output).

Because at the time when new a thing is being created, only the creator (if even) understands the purpose of it. So any other external actor who is supposed to measure the output (be it company CEO, or grant commission, etc.) is not equipped to understand why. Were they equipped to understand, they would just commission the work in the first place.

<comment><USER15> This is also why I call bullshit on the concept that "good ideas don't matter" in business. Execution is important, but good ideas can be just as valuable. But the problem with innovative ideas is that they can be difficult to communicate. My favorite example of this is the adaptation of novels into feature films. It's usually the norm rather than the exception for a truly excellent novel to be adapted into a truly mediocre film which not only misses the mark of the book but also just doesn't seem to "get" the book at a fundamental level (e.g. themes, characters, etc.) And here you have a case where an "idea" (the entire novel itself) is fleshed out into a work containing tens of thousands of words, replete with scads of detail all over the place. And you also have proof that thousands if not millions of people are able to learn this "idea" and "get it". Yet that system of communicating an idea is still so fraught with the potential for error that it cannot reliably result in a feature film that even expresses the themes of the book with any semblance of authenticity. Because communication is hard, especially when innovative and novel ideas are involved.

And this is true in business just as it is in art. You can have a fantastic "good idea", one that is worth billions even if it is executed with only mediocre success. But that doesn't mean you could simply hand that good idea over to someone else and they would succeed with it to the same degree, because there is a very high chance that they just won't "get it". They'll hear the idea and think that you meant something else. Or they'll think some inconsequential aspect of it is the important part while ignoring the truly important part, and so on.

And we see many examples of this in history. We see XEROX looking at a nearly fully executed "good idea" in the form of the Alto and concentrating on temporary, less consequential aspects of it such as the high unit cost of the first generation computers and not seeing the enormous potential (a computer that was so easy to use anybody could use it, and a computer that was so useful that anybody could benefit from having one).

<comment><USER17> Good idea doesn't matter because good ideas are rarely exclusive. If one has a good idea, there is a good chance someone else has also came up the same idea. Thus how to execute that idea becomes critical, including access to capital, talent, market, etc. Amazon was certainly not the first to come up with e-commerce

There are always exception on both ends of the spectrum of course.

Your novel adaption analogy isn't exactly apt. You can't test a movie the way you can with business iteration. There are also no metrics to measure a movie's success the way you can measure revenue, customer retention, user usages, etc.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> Can Amazon as a company fail unless they spin-off AWS to separate entity?

<comment><USER19> Sure, they could make some colossal mistakes and get in a huge amount of debt, or some new competitor could come into cloud computing in a way we can't predict and Amazon can't compete with. The future is weird and things that seem like they will last forever can quickly vanish, and afterwards it seems inevitable.

</comment></comment><comment><USER20> I'll believe it when Amazon starts selling kit houses.

<comment><USER21> You mean like this? [https://www.amazon.com/Allwood-Eagle- Point-1108-Cabin/dp/B00...](https://www.amazon.com/Allwood-Eagle- Point-1108-Cabin/dp/B00LYGIEU2/ref=sr_1_17?ie=UTF8&qid=1539708228&sr=8-17&keywords=container+house)

<comment><USER20> Well I'll be damned.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> What does Amazon need to do to avoid falling to the same fate as Sears?

<comment><USER23> Maybe it's inevitable, but who cares...SEARS milked it for 130+ years. That's about 4-5 generations. But I tell you, no one is going to allow AMZN control 50++% of online sales for decades to come.

<comment><USER24> I've wondering why that's been true for 10 years and yet noone's even close. Cuz if they were waiting for AMZN to make a big mistake, they waited too long.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> A few hundred years ago, some humans overthrew an aristocracy they felt ignored them, took a swing at updating their social contract.

Traditionalists were mad. Modern thinkers won out more or less.

Are we repeating that again?

These loops are fascinating for their recurring appearance in human history.

<comment><USER26> It's odd to me to find this comment downvoted, nearly completely grayed out for applying the lessons of history of antiquity to the modernity of [e]commerce, after just reading quite a few others making the exact same statements only with more recent participants and industry juggernauts.

I found it quite apt.

<comment><USER27> Vague is apt on easy mode.

<comment><USER26> How was that comment remotely vague? I'm sure it would seem so if one were lacking a few history lessons in high school but beyond that?

<comment><USER28> It is a transparent attempt to inject a political discussion into a topic where it is not appropriate. Your use of ad hominem in supporting this is just as transparent. There are other places where this discussion would be appropriate.

<comment><USER26> I am TRULY sorry to put this burden out there but someone explain to me the "transparently political" here because it's either too early in the morning or I am just not seeing it in that comment for some other reason.

Am I somehow out of line here for reading that comment as an allegory for what's happening with Amazon, as it happened with Sears, as it happened with many other institutional market players with enormous market power going back several hundreds of years? Is it wrong to ask if that loop is repeating itself now with Amazon and other giants of commerce in 2018? Because that's what I got from that commentary. It's an interesting thought experiment and I'm happy to oblige that.

Playing a game of knee-jerk word association just to torpedo the commentary as ad-hoc political, yes, in my opinion signals some lack of appreciation for history. If you want to call that ad hominem that's fine, but I'm not taking it back.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Vote HN: can we get an Appsumo deal on newrelic please? - <AUTHOR> http://www.newrelic.com/web-app-monitoring-pricing.html http://www.newrelic.com/web-app-monitoring-pricing.html<p>Related info: http://buytaert.net/playing-with-new-relic-on-acquia-hosting <comment><AUTHOR> Not interested

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> Yes please</comment>


Google introduces 13 new features in Gmail - <AUTHOR> http://www.intology.com/computers-internet/google-introduces-13-new-features-in-gmail/ <comment><USER2> New features not in the article:

Pictures in chat Random signature Custom date formats Hide Unread Counts</comment>


XeTeX: A modern LaTeX with proper OpenType and Unicode support - <AUTHOR> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XeTeX <comment><USER2> It was because of the poor font support in LaTeX that I gave up trying to use it many years back.

[And without fail, every time I make this claim, I get piled on by LaTeX die- hards -- please don't bother. It's a total PITA to get the fonts of your choice working properly in LaTeX. It SHOULD be as easy as referencing a font file or dropping a font in a directory, but it's not.]

XeTeX looks awesome. Finally, full, easy, natural OTF support through Freetype. Even AAT support on a Mac! Looks like I'm jumping back into the world of TeX.

</comment><comment><USER3> I suggest having a look at <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LuaTeX> It is still in beta, but once the power of LuaTeX is unleashed, it will be the only used TeX engine (in two or three years). This is because it combines the quality of TeX's typesetting algorithms (+ unicode/opentype/...) with the ability to program in Lua, a very decent programming language. In "Lua mode", you have access to all TeX's internal parameters and algorithms, so you can even do the line breaking and pdf writing from inside lua. That means you don't have to use TeX's input language any more, a language that keeps many people away from using TeX. Now that you have everything on the Lua side, there is no reason why not to read XML, RTF, Wiki-Markup and other file formats and use the TeX algorithms to typeset these files.

TeX internally works with nodes. Every character you type, every space you use (like the space between paragraphs), every color command will be changed to a nodelist. The boxes and linebreaking algorithm operate on these nodes. In LuaTeX (in lua) you can create nodes manually and feed this list into the linebreaking algorithm and you get back a box of a perfectly nice typeset paragraph. Then you can even operate on these nodes again (or just before linebreaking) and ship out this paragraph into the pdf file. Nobody cares where you get the input from. There are several libraries included with LuaTeX and available for inclusion, such as LPEG (for really nice and sophisticated parsing), luasocket (internet access), luazip, etc. Even luaexpat (xml) and luasql (Database access) are available, so that makes LuaTeX perfectly suited for database publishing (which is what I am doing)

No other TeX engine can do that at the moment!

For the german speaking hackers, I am running the site

<http://www.luatex.de>

where I write technical stuff about LuaTeX (and some announcements), but beware: all in german.

[Edit: here is the site with google translation to english:

[http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&h...](http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.luatex.de&sl=de&tl=en)

]

<comment><USER4> So let's say I am totally convinced, not by the programmability, but by the combination of unicode support and microtypography.

For LaTeX, everyone knows that to get professional output you just read through the two (!) manuals for the memoir class and then you know pretty much everything you need. Where do I start to make professional looking output with ConTeXt?

<comment><USER3> Just this site:

<http://contextgarden.net>

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> How is this news, exactly? I use it and love it every day, but ... eh.

EDIT: Well, I see it's turned someone back onto LaTeX, so good on the submitter, then.

</comment><comment><USER6> OpenType? What's wrong with Computer Modern? ;)

<comment><USER7> I'm not a huge fan of Computer Modern's appearance, but as a practical font for typesetting math it's a work of genius.

Alas, there are hardly any other fonts that include the range of glyphs required for serious mathematical typesetting.

On the subject of XeTeX, fontspec, et al, while they do make using OpenType fonts much easier, alas they cannot magically create corresponding mathematical glyphs. They also, last time I used them, lacked decent support for setting equations using OpenType fonts, though the situation did seem to be improving so that may no longer be an issue.

Now, if someone wanted to sponsor the guys at some of the big font foundries to make matching mathematical glyphs to accompany some of the nice, professional-grade OpenType fonts they make, that would be fabulous, but probably a rather expensive bit of philanthropy given the niche market.

<comment><USER4> There are some surprising available math fonts, here is a page with sample output showing which available math fonts match which available text fonts:

[http://ctan.tug.org/tex- archive/info/Free_Math_Font_Survey/s...](http://ctan.tug.org/tex- archive/info/Free_Math_Font_Survey/survey.html)

<comment><USER7> I appreciate what you're saying, but IMHO almost none of the samples on that page looks sufficiently professional that I would use it to set a textbook. Computer Modern has at least stood the test of time, and gives a clean, uniform appearance to text and mathematical type.

If I were setting a serious work, I would like to use a high quality serif font, something like Emigre's _Mrs Eaves_ or Adobe's _Arno Pro_ , but alas, these fonts have a rather limited range of mathematical glyphs, which means you either get the "two similar but different fonts" problem (which nearly always looks bad) or you have to pick a font that isn't as nice for the body text just because it has matching math symbols available.

<comment><USER4> Should have mentioned to jump to the bottom of the page. Many of the examples are ugly, but Minion and Utopia are, of course, pro Adobe fonts used in a large number of professionally-typeset books.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> so this is basically latex, with with support for unicode and difficult font features...

i'd love to see someone submit a different approach to writing technical documents. something that doesn't look like the macro system of latex, or a soup of XML tags.

<comment><USER9> The _least_ of my complaints about LaTeX is how it _looks_. I don't mind the markup at all.

Now, the _complexity_ of the whole system, that's what I have a problem with.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> Any chance of a version that works on Snow Leopard being released? Just tried installing – no luck. A shame, I'm about to start typesetting a paper.

<comment><USER11> Did you try mactex?

<http://www.tug.org/mactex/2009/>

<comment><USER10> Got it, messing with it now :) There a neat way to use emacs with it?

<comment><USER12> I'm new at AUCTeX but so far, so good. I'm using TeX Live via MacPorts but I guess AUCTeX and XeTeX would get along fine.

<comment><USER11> They should and mactex should basically be the same as texlive as I believe that is what it is created from, if someone wants a gui for the mac I believe <http://www.uoregon.edu/~koch/texshop/> is popular

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> So is XeTeX+ConTeXt (ed note: I hate the odd capitalization) the typesetting system to use, or are there even better combos?

<comment><USER3> LuaTeX + ConTeXt (also called MKIV), see the page on <http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Mark_IV>. With this combo, you can use the typesetting power of TeX and the programming power of LuaTeX combined.

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> Misread as XeXeca</comment>


Ken's Academy Award: Noise and Turbulence - <AUTHOR> http://cims.nyu.edu/~perlin/doc/oscar.html <comment><USER2> This is about Ken Perlin/'Perlin Noise'. From the Wikipedia page on Perlin Noise:

> _Perlin noise resulted from the work of Ken Perlin, who developed it at > Mathematical Applications Group, Inc. (MAGI) for Disney 's computer animated > sci-fi motion picture Tron (1982). In 1997, he won an Academy Award for > Technical Achievement from the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences > for this contribution to CGI._

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perlin_noise](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perlin_noise)

Edit: also, if you'd like to see something more recent from him, I'd recommend this talk: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YnVhTyrYbo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YnVhTyrYbo) [SIGGRAPH Asia 2011 - Featured Speaker, Ken Perlin] —interesting stuff, and he's an engaging speaker.

<comment><USER3> Ah, I wondered why it felt like Perlin noise had been around for way longer than 1997.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Perlin Noise and other procedural generation techniques also make frequent appearances in demoscene productions.

[http://www.iquilezles.org/www/articles/morenoise/morenoise.h...](http://www.iquilezles.org/www/articles/morenoise/morenoise.htm)

as featured in

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jB0vBmiTr6o](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jB0vBmiTr6o)

<comment><USER5> I've always loved the demoscene stuff I've seen. How would you recommend getting into it? Both the community and creation

<comment><USER6> Tinker with things on shadertoy.com, first with 2D things and then maybe do a tutorial about raytracing and start tinkering with 3D things.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> This function works surprisingly well in practice.

IIUC, it's a hash function defined over 3D space with tunable gradient between points.

The cool thing about the the marble vase example is that marble texture continues _on the inside_. So if you look on the inside of the vase the texture will still be there. _automatically_ [[http://cims.nyu.edu/~perlin/doc/vase.html](http://cims.nyu.edu/~perlin/doc/vase.html)]

Here's an example I made [lots of copy pasta btw :)] when learning this to get a wood texture [a simple application of Perlin noise, btw :)]. If you cut through the wood, the texture will still be there.

[http://shaderfrog.com/app/view/828](http://shaderfrog.com/app/view/828) [the dividing factors in line 236 tune the gradient]

<comment><USER8> Is that what they use in Metal Gear Rising to simulate the texture in the inside of objects?

<comment><USER7> Sorry, I don't know.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> This was used by Flipboard for their Duplo algorithm which creates plausible layouts for web content. They used Perlin Noise to create variations between pages to create an 'organic' sense to the algorithmically generated layouts.

[http://engineering.flipboard.com/2014/03/web- layouts/](http://engineering.flipboard.com/2014/03/web-layouts/)

<comment><USER3> Man, that's a super interesting use of it. Controlling randomness shows up in so many - often unexpected - places when dealing with aesthetics.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> For those who are looking for a more detailed understanding of the algorithm and the choice of functions involved, I recommend [http://staffwww.itn.liu.se/~stegu/simplexnoise/simplexnoise....](http://staffwww.itn.liu.se/~stegu/simplexnoise/simplexnoise.pdf)

<comment><USER11> I wrote a detailed explanation last year which might also help some: [http://eastfarthing.com/blog/2015-04-21-noise/](http://eastfarthing.com/blog/2015-04-21-noise/)

</comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> Love his work and his current research project ChalkTalk. Dynamic sketches with knowledge embedded in it will completely change how we learn and communicate. Check out his talk : [https://youtu.be/nHBAGke3eCU](https://youtu.be/nHBAGke3eCU) if interested!

</comment><comment><USER12> And also made a billion dollars for Notch. Perlin noise is the basis for minecraft terrain generation.

<comment><USER13> That's kind of like saying the random() function made a billion dollars for Notch, though. What made the money was the whole game, not just one algorithm used.

<comment><USER14> I believe the comment is intended to point out to HN readers that this algorithm was central to the game, and since the game made a large amount of money, then this algorithm served (at least in part) as a basis for Notch's monetary rewards. I do not believe the comment was meant to suggest that this one algorithm by itself made money, as certainly any reasonable reader would understand that it is the whole game that made money. It is unlikely that the commenter was suggesting that you could, for example, sell a Perlin noise function for a billion dollars, or even generate any revenue directly from the noise function itself, absent a compelling game around it.

The commenter was, I believe (and I say this without having any inside information as to his or her thought process) employing a technique in which the full range of details surrounding an event are ignored in favor of one aspect (here, the Perlin noise function) on which we want to focus.

<comment><USER15> But at the same time it seems to casually reduce Notch's effort to "used perlin noise". He didn't need perlin noise per-se; there are countless of other terrain generation techniques. But perlin noise, in part, made minecraft what it is today, that's true.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> Perlin Noise is why I thought I'd study computer science at NYU grad school with Ken Perlin as my advisor.

Well I met him - and that's it. My major wound up being math :-)

</comment><comment><USER17> Fun fact: since Perlin noise basically provides a smoothly varying scalar gradient over a space, it's trivial to extend it to higher dimensions (including variance through time), and to use it to generate things like vector fields when you need smooth but random motion or other effects.

Also fun to toy with different interpolation and noise generation algorithms.

It's a wonderfully simple idea and great fun to play around with!

<comment><USER18> My brother wrote a rather nice clojure library that does 4D texture generation

[https://github.com/mikera/clisk](https://github.com/mikera/clisk)

My simple gamer (ie every texture is 2D) brain had a bit of trouble coming to terms with continuous 4D textures, and I think it was talking about how Perlin noise could be continuous that made the idea stick eventually.

</comment></comment><comment><USER19> So I would like someone to correct my understanding if possible

Reading the Wikipedia explanation (ok, I have been ill recently) I see a process that given say a 2D grid, can assign for each cell in the grid a single number, that number is derived from a function applied to each of its corner nodes.

The function basically assigns a random number around the node (i.e. 360 degrees) and then merges that random with the distance to the point, and then merge that with all four points auchbthat one cell now has one number that is affected by distance, it's neighbours and randomness

I think that pretty clearly gives a smoothed map that will not have the junpiness of random map placements

Seems fairly good way to make a procedural map.

What else is it useful for?

<comment><USER20> Another fun application of Perlin noise is fake fluid dynamics. If you take the curl of a Perlin noise field, you get a nice turbulence function that has no divergence. Fluids are usually approximated as being incompressible, and that's part of what makes fluids look fluid. Curl of Perlin can give you a nice fluid-looking turbulence. Curl of any noise is divergence-free, of course, but Perlin works well and looks better than others.

Perlin noise is actually more expensive to evaluate than a real fluid simulation. The fun/important part is that Perlin is static, so there's no simulation and you can render your frames out of order and in parallel. With a fluid simulation, each sim frame depends on the previous one. Fake curly noise is also easier to set up and tune than a fluid sim.

I and others have used this technique on lots of films for quick turbulent smoke, fog, and particulate effects.

<comment><USER19> Thank you for your replies - I will try writing my own perlin generator for something.

I am taking a break from HN for a few weeks, and would not have replied but I just wanted to say the ability to ask a question and get back "yeah I used this technique on that movie you saw" is something no other forums provide. It's awesome.

I will smile as I take my screen break. Cheers

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> A few years ago I ported some efficient perlin noise generation into javascript to play with it. Here's a really simple visualisation of what perlin noise actually looks like:

[http://josephg.github.io/noisejs/demo3d.html](http://josephg.github.io/noisejs/demo3d.html)

(This is actually a 3d simplex noise function, where the z axis is mapped to time. Simplex noise is a variant on perlin noise. Perlin noise is also in the repo but I don't have a demo of it online.)

Repo: [https://github.com/josephg/noisejs](https://github.com/josephg/noisejs)

<comment><USER22> Thanks for the link(s)!

Awesome stuff

</comment></comment><comment><USER23> The 'improved noise' mentioned in the page is, I believe, more commonly known as 'simplex noise'[1], as it is mathematically based on manipulating n-dimensional simplicies. If you're interested in noise and using it well, his presentation 'flow noise'[2] is quite educational.

[1][https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simplex_noise](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simplex_noise) [2][http://mrl.nyu.edu/~perlin/flownoise- talk/](http://mrl.nyu.edu/~perlin/flownoise-talk/)

</comment><comment><USER24> I've got a few Perlin Noise links on Github:

[https://github.com/melling/ComputerGraphics#perlin- noise](https://github.com/melling/ComputerGraphics#perlin-noise)

</comment><comment><USER25> This was something I always wanted to look into, and I did a while ago. I added options to visualize grid, vectors and make it moving to show the intuition people around. I think it helps discussion a lot. (there might be errors in implementation or it might be completely off if my memory failing me)

[https://jsfiddle.net/auselen/6owerdnh/](https://jsfiddle.net/auselen/6owerdnh/)

</comment><comment><USER26> You made my day.

</comment><comment><USER27> Doesn't really say how

<comment><USER28> I've found most stories headlined "How something did something else" tell you nothing about how.

I guess "how" is American (or headline-ese) for _why_ '

<comment><USER29> This story was headlined with "Noise and Turbulence"

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER30> Scroll up for the actual story. The link is anchored to the code sample at the bottom for some reason.

<comment><USER31> Thanks, we removed the anchor from the link.</comment></comment>


Technology meets Architecture: Tower with Rotating Modular Floors and Horizontal Wind Turbines - <AUTHOR> http://www.inhabitat.com/2007/05/16/david-fishers-twirling-wind-power-tower/

<comment><USER2> I'm normally a clean language man, but that is just bitchin'!

gibs, your architecture pieces add some nice variety to HN. Thanks!

</comment><comment><USER3> I don't get how it's suppose to catch any wind. I don't see fans or wings of any sort. is it inbetween the floors?

<comment><AUTHOR> Exactly - its between the floors. I think this is one of the most innovate overall building technology developments I've ever seen. They invented a way to create partial floor modules that are lifted to the very top of the building first and then filled in on the way down, a way to rotate the floors, a way to have horizontal tubines between the floors that create enough power for 10 towers - simply amazing.

<comment><USER3> You know, interestingly enough, I just thought that if you have rotating floors, you're creating angular momentum, which makes it hard to tilt the floors. I wonder if that also has a stabilizing effect on the building in response to earthquakes.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Awesome awesome awesome awesome.

Now for my contribution to the discussion: How does the rotation work at the base of the building? Or is it mounted on top of another non-rotating building?

<comment><AUTHOR> The central core is concrete cast in place and does not move. The floors hang on "rails" attached to the central core and rotate around the core riding on those rails.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> Sweet. A commercial windmill can power around 40 standard houses, so this could work.

</comment><comment><USER2> I hope it does get built in Chicago - that'd be a fun one to watch get built!</comment>


I cried a week after I moved here - <AUTHOR> https://medium.com/i-love-you-san-francisco/2f10fe590334

<comment><USER2> We get it - San Francisco is an awesome city, but the mob mentality with which Peter Shih's post has been attacked [1] should be a matter of shame for us San Franciscans.

If our city is truly so great, then we don't need to affirm it with a thousand blog posts. I love this city, but it's in spite of all the issues that Peter mentioned in his blog. Let's recognize that we live in a great city, but let's not turn the city into a religious icon that cannot be criticized.

1\. [http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/16/peter- shih_n_376850...](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/16/peter- shih_n_3768505.html?utm_hp_ref=technology)

</comment><comment><USER3> nice sentiments, you can find it a lot of places, but sounds like you found it in SF

</comment><comment><USER4> 'If you don't love San Francisco like those of us who love it do, there's a simple solution; don't live here.'

Does this girl hear herself talk? The pretentiousness of that makes me want to gag.

<comment><USER5> Actually, it's the only line in the piece that isn't pretentious. It's a basic truth: if you're unhappy where you are, seek happiness elsewhere. It has double meaning of course; get out of my city because you're spreading unhappiness, and go find your own city where you can find happiness.

I see nothing wrong with it.</comment></comment>


Tesla's New Model S 60kWh Has a 75kWh Battery That's Software Limited - <AUTHOR> http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/car-technology/news/a29475/tesla-model-s-60-60d/ <comment><AUTHOR> Tesla is shipping 75kWh batteries as 60kWh batteries, and requiring customers to pay an extra $8,500 to flip a configuration bit to unlock that last 15kwh.

I don't mind DRM for digital goods in which the variable cost is essentially $0, but this sort of DRM on physical goods leaves a yucky taste in my mouth. I'm curious how illegal it would be for someone to perform (and sell) a jailbreak/unlock for that last 15kWh of capacity.</comment>


Best software error message ever - <AUTHOR> http://blog.pmarca.com/2007/12/best-software-e.html

<comment><USER2> I particularly like this one error I got in one of my ubuntu installs:

"The program 'apt-get' is currently not installed. You can install it by typing: apt-get install apt"

</comment><comment><USER3> My favorite one was "Non-System Disk or Disk Error". It seems subtle, but it had everything:

1) Doesn't make any sense.

2) Doesn't point to a solution.

3) Isn't really an error.

4) Completely prevents the computer from working.

5) Happened routinely--millions of times a day, I'm sure.

6) Seemed to infect pretty girls the most, allowing me to heroicly solve the problem (by ejecting the diskette from the drive during boot up.)

Good times.

<comment><USER4> It's a pathetic error message but it does make sense I think. The computar tried to boot a disk but it wasn't a (bootable) "system disk" or it is a system disk, but it's broken.

<comment><USER5> Specifically, it's pathetic because it's grammatically ambiguous and requires additional knowledge.

It could easily be parsed grammatically as, "There was an error on the non- system disk or the disk" which makes no sense. Even when you parse it the way it was intended, you need to know that the PC tried to boot from a disk drive in order to comprehend the message.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> A friend told me about once receiving a BIOS error like the following:

Error: No keyboard detected. Press any key to continue.

<comment><USER7> I got this one yesterday on a brand new Dell.

"No keyboard present. Press F1 to continue or DEL to enter setup..."

<comment><USER8> I imagine they could still be entered through the serial console, though.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> My Favorite:

In an early version of Linux I used to get "Mr. Potato Head is on the loose!" every once in a while...

</comment><comment><USER10> Pretty funny. I don't think anything will ever top the simple 'printer on fire', though.

</comment><comment><USER11> Give 'em credit for making progress, they don't have a "Reboot Computer?" button as the default selection ala: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=86329>

</comment><comment><USER12> Pretty much sums up my entire history with Windows.

How else could I explain my love of Gentoo? It's transparent in comparison.

</comment><comment><USER13> Marc is still pissed at MS after these years. What a passion & commitment Marc.

</comment><comment><USER14> Gotta love Vista. Blue screens on boot up have become part of my morning ritual.</comment>


A doctor in Bangladesh has found a simple way to treat infant pneumonia - <AUTHOR> https://www.economist.com/science-and-technology/2018/09/08/how-a-shampoo-bottle-is-saving-young-lives <comment><USER2> He and his team should be praised and prized for the achievement and results.

On the other side, this shows how slowly ideas can spread even in globalization times. I'm a pediatrician in Brazil and have used and been taught to use improvised bubble CPAP, with great results, since the nineties. I've heard reports of its successful use since, at least, the 80's decade.

I hope those devices can swiftly be fully scientifically validated and reach all needing regions of the world.

edited: grammar

<comment><USER3> I am always amazed at the quality, intelligence and experience of HN readers on any topic you can imagine. I love being in a community where a pediatrician from Brazil can comment on a medical discovery. I'll probably be downvotes for a silly comment but feel like HN elevates my life.

<comment><USER4> I'm always pleasantly surprised by this too. There are experts and hobbyist in every field in this community. It is one of the reasons why I look forward to the comments more than the articles themselves.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> I feel like there are deep implications in this article about healthcare costs.

If hospitals don't compete on price, what really motivates them to find a cheaper ventilator?

If they aren't all that motivated to find a cheaper ventilator, are the ventilator manufacturers motivated to develop a simpler and cheaper version of their technology? Not so much. They might be more motivated to lobby for regulations making cheaper solutions illegal to protect their business.

And so forth.

Fascinating. Demoralizing.

<comment><USER6> If a $15k hospital grade ventilator has a fifty year service life, perhaps the developed world sees little benefit to finding a cheaper ventilator, regardless of competition.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> Here's a schematic of how traditional bubble CPAP works: [http://www.i-ma.com/images/INCA-Setup- Components.jpg](http://www.i-ma.com/images/INCA-Setup-Components.jpg)

<comment><USER8> I didn't understand from the article about a "shampoo bottle with bubbles left in it". This diagram seems simple enough.

<comment><USER9> I can't even understand the diagram: how is exhaling into a glass of water supposed to make breathing easier?

<comment><USER10> My understanding is that having water at the terminal side of the air flow creates back-pressure, which helps prevent the lungs collapsing.

<comment><USER11> Is this sort of system used for gunshot or stabbing victims where the lung was punctured?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> If this is reproducible and legit I'd love to see him win the Nobel Prize in Medicine instead of the basic science people who usually win.

<comment><USER13> Absolutely, the humanitarian implications of making this widely available/accessible are tremendously positive (whereas your average brilliant idea may or may not ever see practical use and additionally the use it eventually sees may be a net negative for mankind on the whole)

<comment><USER12> Well, I think there's also a pretty great track record of basic medical research making it to practical use.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> I think this article forgets to mention it took him close to 20 years to make this.

[https://www.bbc.com/news/business-40498395](https://www.bbc.com/news/business-40498395)

People like him should win the Nobel Peace prize.

<comment><AUTHOR> Agree that people like him should get more recognition, maybe even the Nobel Peace prize.

In reading the article, though, I don't think it took him 20 years to make it. Instead, I think it means he made a promise to do something about children dying from pneumonia and it took him 20 years to figure out how to do it. I base this on the following paragraphs in the article:

 _In 1996, Dr Mohammod Jobayer Chisti was working in the paediatric department of the Sylhet Medical College Hospital in Bangladesh. That evening he made a promise that he would do something to stop children dying from pneumonia._

 _When asked how he feels to be fulfilling that promise he made 20 years ago he replies: "I have no language to express this."_

<comment><USER14> The article said the following:

After two decades of research, Dr Chisti has now come up with a low-cost device with the potential to save thousands of babies' lives.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> > The materials needed to make his version of a bubble-CPAP ventilator cost a > mere $1.25.

One of the situations where a lack of strict health regulations on medical devices is saving lives.

<comment><USER16> It could also be the situation where the loss due to complications due to the equipment are far less than the loss due to the disease.

If you lose 10% to contaminated bottles, 15% to various malfunctions, and another 5% for things related to the procedure I can't even begin to consider, that's 30% mortality rate for this procedure.

But if another has 0% mortality rate but due to some other factor is not available in appropriate quantities, let's say there are only enough resources to service 10 cases a day, then your 11th case can either take a 100% mortality rate for doing nothing, or a 30% mortality rate with the other procedure. You take the better chance.

<comment><USER17> I think there is confusion, on the videos and picture they are using medical equipment, it's just used in a different way.

<comment><USER16> The point dmix makes is that "a lack of regulation is saving lives". The device doesn't have to be tested, it doesn't require licensed operators, etc.

And I was agreeing that it is saving lives, but that it is not particularly indicative that regulation is killing people.

That the incident of a disease may be so prevalent or that access to modern hospitals may be so scarce that in certain cases, taking an unregulated approach is better than no approach.

This _is_ in India. This would never be discovered in a developed nation because there is no need for it. A ventilator has a far better success rate. However, in India, in other developing nations, this is necessary. And the fact that it is simple to set up, that it can be set up by someone with little training, etc are all benefits in those situations. That even with what would be considered a pretty poor mortality rate, it's still better than the alternatives at their disposal.

<comment><USER18> You say, "A ventilator has a far better success rate." I am skeptical of this statement; what are your sources? I would expect this setup to have the same success rate as any other bubble CPAP machine.

<comment><USER19> it would be hard to cite source on a new device/discovery/method such as this as there would not be any.

The comment higher up the chain covered some of the potential failure methods of the new system.

> If you lose 10% to contaminated bottles, 15% to various malfunctions, and > another 5% for things related to the procedure I can't even begin to > consider, that's 30% mortality rate for this procedure.

<comment><USER18> There's no reason to expect that those rates would be higher for this equipment design than for the $15000 one, rather than lower.

That comment also seems to demonstrate a fundamental lack of understanding of what's being discussed, since contaminated bottles are vanishingly unlikely to infect the patient — the air goes _from_ the patient _to_ the bottle, through a dry plastic tube, not vice versa.

<comment><USER16> You do understand the numbers and examples were made up to illustrate a point, that _even if_ it weren't as good as a modern hospital that it's better than the current alternative.

Discussing the minutiae is immaterial.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> Last year's news: [https://www.bbc.com/news/business-40498395](https://www.bbc.com/news/business-40498395)

<comment><USER21> This article actually contains the link to the paper too: [https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6...](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736\(15\)60249-5/fulltext) — though behind a Lancet register-wall apparently

 _edit:_ though based on the abstract available at the URL, it's not clear to me which of the mentioned methods is the innovative one, if any (??)

 _edit 2:_ Found a youtube video with some actual description of how the machine is built, from the doctor himself, from 2015 (google keywords: "Chisti bubble CPAP"): [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HM1E8yMJd5Q](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HM1E8yMJd5Q)

<comment><USER22> pdf of the paper : [https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Mohammod_Chisti/publica...](https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Mohammod_Chisti/publication/281552002_Bubble_continuous_positive_airway_pressure_for_children_with_severe_pneumonia_and_hypoxaemia_in_Bangladesh_An_open_randomised_controlled_trial/links/59e1b993458515393d57b423/Bubble- continuous-positive-airway-pressure-for-children-with-severe-pneumonia-and- hypoxaemia-in-Bangladesh-An-open-randomised-controlled-trial.pdf)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> _All in all, the Chisti bottle-based ventilator shows what can be achieved by stripping an idea down to its basic principles. Effectiveness, it neatly demonstrates, need not always go hand in hand with high tech._

Can't be said enough.

<comment><USER24> It's the typical path of "crude conceptual prototype -> complicated advanced solution -> highly optimized stripped-down late version" constantly seen in engineering, especially in software where iterations are fast.

I hope that much of today's advanced, complicated, and expensive tech will eventually make that next step to simplification based on huge accumulated experience and knowledge.

</comment></comment><comment><USER25> Reminds me of the great story of the ingenious baby incubator developed from Toyota 4 Runner parts: [https://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/11/23/neonurtures- car-...](https://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/11/23/neonurtures-car-parts- baby-incubator/)

</comment><comment><USER26> powerful, this puts everything i do in pale comparison, this person's acts are really changing the world and directly saving lives. i also don't see him trying to profit on this, but instead he's trying to replicate this work in another 3rd world country.

this does put a massive black mark on the medical device industry and medical industry as a whole, trying to profit off what should be basic needs of hospitals. in general, companies making profits is only natural, and some of their research does require heavy research funding, but to the extent where their pricing may be killing off people is a little contradictory. i imagine the device costs have been subsidized by some governments of rich countries, but these standards cannot be applied to all countries. this is certainly a political issue, where are all the funds for bangledesh heading?

this also reminds me of the efforts going on at fourthievesvinegar.org we need more open source medicine and medical devices, this seems to be a lot more meaningful than creating enterprise software or social apps.

</comment><comment><USER27> The shampoo bottle CPAP is described here in diagram form:

[https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/CPAP%3A-a-guide-for- cl...](https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/CPAP%3A-a-guide-for-clinicians- in-developing-Duke/cfebb0dbed8643ab2dcb996076e10bc69cc392b3)

<comment><USER2> In my experience, most facilities that have oxigen flow also have compressed air flow with cheap controllable fluxometers, but a blender is often lacking or too expensive.

In those cases we use a Y piece connecting air and oxigen flows to the inspirarory limb.

The role of the blender is to control the percentage of oxigen offered. With the Y piece we can control that by the equation:

%O2 = (O2flow + Airflow * 0.21) / Total flow

If you can use Total flow of 8L/min (reasonable in most cases) the approximations table below is of easy memorization and precise enough:

      O2 flow - Air flow - %O2

        8 - 0 - 100%
        7 - 1 - 90%
        6 - 2 - 80%
        5 - 3 - 70%
        4 - 4 - 60%
        3 - 5 - 50%
        2 - 6 - 40%
        1 - 7 - 30%
        0 - 8 - 21%

Edited:formatting

</comment></comment><comment><USER28> Absolutely brilliant! Take a bow, Dr. Chisti.

</comment><comment><USER29> [Dupe] of [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17931801](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17931801)

<comment><USER30> On HN it doesn't count as a dupe if the story hasn't had significant attention yet. This is in the FAQ ([https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html)). More explanation at [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16403654](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16403654) and [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16344002](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16344002).</comment></comment>


Germany Plans Limits on Facebook Use in Hiring - <AUTHOR> http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/26/business/global/26fbook.html

<comment><USER2> A bit of discussion attached to a Techcrunch article on the same proposal: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1626825>

</comment><comment><USER3> how reasonable! letting people keep their private lives private. Imagine if that caught on in North America!</comment>


Which emails have the best Impossible Travel risk detectors? - <AUTHOR> We found a few and listed them here: https://www.hacware.com/travelImpossible.html<p>Is this only supported by Microsoft? I would like to know your thoughts. Thanks! <comment><USER2> [https://www.hacware.com/travelImpossible.html](https://www.hacware.com/travelImpossible.html)

: 404 Not Found</comment>


Show HN: My spin on Groupon - <AUTHOR> http://www.zuupy.com/crowddealsbeta/

<comment><USER2> Very nice idea.

That's a great pivot, and one I'll seriously consider using on my site.

If it works as well as I hope, I think you may wish to reconsider your pricing model.

<comment><AUTHOR> Hi Michael, thanks for your feedback. The pricing model is tentative, but we're in the process of getting funding, so any revenue/real customer is essential. In other words, we sort of need to "validate" the product as quickly as possible via revenues.

<comment><USER2> I'll see if I can figure out a good way to use this on my site quickly, then. (There are a few complications with discounts due to the industry I'm in, but they should be surmountable.)

I'm still interested in exploring other Facebook-API-related ideas with you guys; I'll contact you offline.

<comment><AUTHOR> Sure thing, looking forward to any further feedback. About contacting us offline, we're based in sunny Singapore -- not sure if that would be an issue.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> What about people who don't have Facebook accounts? I think the idea is cool and I get that the whole point is hitting the Facebook "Like" button, but it may keep some people out of the deals.

Something to consider and perhaps hedge one way or the other.

By the way, what's up with the Zuupy name? Everyone will have to explain and spell it out when telling a friend.

<comment><AUTHOR> The "Facebook" element is a relic from our previous product, which never took off, but we did become familiar with the Facebook API. Zuupy was a spare domain name that my co-founder had, which also happened to be unique and a 5-character .com.

We have considered letting non-Facebook users participate, but the core benefit to the retailer is traffic from and visibility within Facebook. Perhaps we will add another for Twitter, based on number of Tweets. But between Facebook and Twitter, we had to go with Facebook.

Thank you for your feedback!

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> How are the deals discoverable? Since the deal is "Liked" on your site, will you aggregate all deals in general product categories (Apparel, Electronics, etc.), creating a merchant/deal directory?

<comment><AUTHOR> This is indeed a very appealing option. Right now, our intention is to sell to retailers directly as an onsite engagement and traffic-building tool. Depending on the business model that we decide to pursue, we will consider your suggestion.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> great idea - planning on giving it a whirl...

it seems people are liking the deal - not your page - hence (as of right now) 6 likes for the deal and 10 for the page? this brings up the question of who gets the user data - i.e. if you're emailing them and after the deal is over the liked item on facebook doesn't tie in to the rest of the company's property what follow up can the company do with these sales leads?

<comment><AUTHOR> When someone likes a deal, the link is actually of our website, not the retailer's. However, we need to do some tracking on our side, and we redirect to the retailer's website.

When the deal is over, we email the deal participants a coupon code, which can be used during the checkout process. This coupon code is supplied by the retailer during creation of the deal, with terms identical to that of the deal.

As for following up with participants, we may allow mass-mailing from our back-end for participants of a given deal, for retailers to disseminate fine prints, etc. We will not hand over email addresses though.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> I would suggest you hire a designer who can convey your message. I first went to the site, then left, then went back because of a comment. After reading the homepage content, then I thought "Clever and very useful, indeed.".

<comment><AUTHOR> What did you find confusing/inadequate on our landing page?</comment></comment>