Why we need worst-case thinking to prevent pandemics - <AUTHOR> https://www.theguardian.com/science/2020/mar/06/worst-case-thinking-prevent-pandemics-coronavirus-existential-risk <comment><USER2> There is a real question here about whether we can sustain the sort of sprawling, interconnected, JIT supply chain that has been set up in the last 20 years and also whether our international travel patterns are sustainable.

The speed with which COVID-19 got to pretty much everywhere is stunning. If the death rate was more in line with, eg, the Black Death it would be interesting to see what happened to food & other supplies in the major cities.

Hopefully there is some principle that a virus can't jump between species that is both infectious, deadly and slow to show symptoms after becoming infectious.

</comment><comment><USER3> For bacteria, antibiotic resistance is a big deal and aggravated by routine oversubscribing and meat agriculture. We need more antibiotics and phages quickly.

For fungi and yeast, there aren't enough antimycotics and they too are overused. We need more antimycotics and phages quickly also.

For viruses, meat agriculture, forest destruction and urban sprawl are contributory factors leading to faster mutations and jumping species eventually into us. It would be nice to have a mostly automated vaccine development lab system that can assemble and test thousands of compounds simultaneously.

<comment><USER4> >For viruses, meat agriculture, forest destruction and urban sprawl are contributory factors leading to faster mutations and jumping species eventually into us.

At this point you have to acknowledge that cultural factors are responsible for the majority of modern outbreaks. We know about the meat markets in China. They are as endemic as the viruses to the various animals they eat. No other country on Earth has originated this many animal to human outbreaks.

This is not an environmental issue.

<comment><USER5> > No other country on Earth has originated this many animal to human > outbreaks.

I am ignorant, what is the data here? Which animal-to-human outbreaks are we counting?

The top animal-derived epidemics I can think of would be: SARS and 2019-nCoV from china, H1N1 had mixed heritage, MERS seemed to come from the middle east, Ebola and HIV from africa. So, pretty spread out?

Also, China is substantially larger than everything else but India, so wouldn't this be an expected outcome anyway?

<comment><USER6> For decades it's been reported in the US press that the seasonal flu outbreak comes from small farms raising pigs in rural China.

So start by googling that for each year.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> In 2010, my home of Christchurch has a serious earthquake.

In 2011, it suffered another far more serious earthquake.

The 1st one provided a full dress rehearsal for the 2nd one.

I wonder of the same will be said for pandemics?

Coronavirus is by no means a dystopian apocalypse.

But it could be an opportunity to help us learn to prevent one.

My concern is around the cost benefit analysis from the perspective of elected leadership.

Prevention doesn't pay politically.

<comment><USER8> > I wonder of the same will be said for pandemics?

It does.

Hong Kong experienced SARS in 2003. The pandemics hit the city hardly [1], infected almost 2000, taking a hundred lives, of which several are medical practitioners.

This time Hong Kong citizens sounded alarm as early as mid-December. They advocated locking down the border from Mainlanders in mid January [2]. The dysfunctional Government was completely oblivious to the situation until at least mid Feb. But the people with vivid memory of SARS took the situation seriously. Mask were used almost ubiquitously in late Jan. Hand sanitizers are equipped by everyone.

It is a stark contrast compared with expat or new mainland immigrants.

1\. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002%E2%80%9304_SARS_outbreak#...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002%E2%80%9304_SARS_outbreak#Hong_Kong)

2\. The dates are recalled from memory, from conversation with HK friends. So take the dates with handful of salt

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> I'd like to see some defense budget diverted to create a bigger surplus of availability of other resources, like medical infrastructure. Give hospitals a double tax write off for empty beds, or some other clever incentive to ensure that they don't try to run at exactly capacity all the time.

</comment><comment><USER10> This is why it's so important that we do everything in our power to achieve a "societal backup" by expanding to at least one more planet.

At a grander level, this is what Elon Musk, SpaceX, and other related endeavors are all about.

Humans are terrible at considering and planning for large-scale, exponential, and extinction-level events ala pandemics, nuclear holocaust, and the long term effects of climate change.

The only real way to ensure that we don't drive ourselves extinct as a society (either purposefully or accidentally) is to create a backup copy of society, just like you would do for any other extremely valuable piece of information.

Onward to Mars!

<comment><USER11> Regardless where you put your colony to, if you keep up a transportation system to that colony and back, you end up enabling spread of the disease. Coronavirus only spread so quickly because of airplane travel. Had we cancelled all airplane, train and ship traffic to and from China early enough, the virus wouldn't have spread as quickly. If in the future we have an intergalactic society with FTL travel, and one colony discovers an ancient virus that kills everyone, the virus will spread with speeds faster than light, because that's our underlying travel method.

To meet threats like coronavirus, you don't need a different planet. Any remote island would do, like easter island, as long as you shut down traffic soon enough.

<comment><USER9> New transportation keeps reducing the time delays for trips, but if you're talking other planets, how fast do you think we can get? I expect a lull.

Of course if panspermia turns out to be true, we could discover some new branch of life that medicine or mammalian immune systems struggle to identify, but which likes to chew on bones or collagen, turning us all into jello.</comment></comment></comment>


A Quantum Leap in Computing - <AUTHOR> http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/tech/quantum-computing.html

<comment><USER2> At first I thought this was another boring article about how Quantum is better, the "two places at the same time" thing and so on. Read them, didn't learn anything new. Then I reached the explanation of Shore's algorithm and things got way more interesting.

Summing it up: Quantum computing so far is about rapid decomposition. Maybe a leap in communication systems and signal processing (hehe, regular EM waves treated as waves just in a very fancy way). Great interview, indeed. Might actually get my interest back to Physics coursework.

</comment><comment><USER3> One heck of an article!! great!</comment>


Show HN: Erlang REST framework - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/fbeline/rooster <comment><USER2> I'm not sure why you would use this over cowboy's REST handler. Cowboy is the thing that powers Phoenix -- you really can't beat it for concurrent performance.

(Loïc of NineNines is an absolutely incredible guy that does a ton of really important work, and you all should consider supporting him at [https://salt.bountysource.com/teams/ninenines](https://salt.bountysource.com/teams/ninenines))

<comment><AUTHOR> you are comparing apples and oranges :) I would go in that way: -> compare cowboy with mochiweb and leptus with rooster.

<comment><USER2> Perhaps in part, yes. But cowboy does have a very powerful REST handler built into it that does a lot of the same things: [https://ninenines.eu/docs/en/cowboy/2.1/guide/rest_flowchart...](https://ninenines.eu/docs/en/cowboy/2.1/guide/rest_flowcharts/)

<comment><USER3> nothing "REST" about it. 100% HTTP

PS: if anyone is interested in a language-agnostic artifact like cowboy's or webmachine's, see [https://github.com/for-GET/http-decision- diagram](https://github.com/for-GET/http-decision-diagram)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Erlang is amazing language in its simplicity. And it was the perfect language for the web. I keep wondering why it never really took off.

<comment><USER5> Syntax as well as just that it's a really weird way of thinking about things compared to languages like Java, Python, etc. Elixir seems to be helping some with this, so I guess we'll see.

<comment><USER6> It's Prolog inspired. It's weird because it never took off like C/C++ like languages.

The language syntax is small enough that I believe it'll take a short time to learn and get use to the syntax versus other languages.

<comment><USER7> > The language syntax is small enough that I believe it'll take a short time > to learn and get use to the syntax versus other languages.

I'm not sure size of syntax has all that much to do with adoption. Case in point: Lisp.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Why no comparison to webmachine? Webmachine has a really robust mapping to the HTTP standard, and sits on top of mochiweb.

</comment><comment><USER9> I have used webmachine for web services in erlang, which I liked a lot. Not sure it's much maintained anymore.

[https://github.com/basho/webmachine/wiki](https://github.com/basho/webmachine/wiki)

Edit: apparently it's still at least somewhat alive... [http://lists.therestfulway.com/pipermail/webmachine_lists.th...](http://lists.therestfulway.com/pipermail/webmachine_lists.therestfulway.com/2017-October/000838.html)

</comment><comment><USER10> I wasn't aware anyone was still maintaining mochiweb, thats actually somewhat comforting to know!

</comment><comment><USER11> Hows this compare to something like Elixir + Phoenix?

<comment><AUTHOR> I think you cannot. The Phoenix is a solid and stable framework. rooster still just a simple implementation of a basic REST framework.

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> Anything out there that accepts GraphQL queries?

<comment><USER13> [https://github.com/shopgun/graphql- erlang](https://github.com/shopgun/graphql-erlang)</comment></comment>


Ask HN:  How to make Numbrosia 2 and 3 descriptions more comprehensible? - <AUTHOR>

See descriptions here:
http://www.numbrosia.com (Numbrosia and Numbrosia 2)
http://amichail.posterous.com/numbrosia-3-screenshot-and-description
The Numbrosia 2 and 3 descriptions are probably incomprehensible to most people.
I realize that videos would help considerably and I plan to make them, but I would also like to have text descriptions that are more comprehensible. <comment><USER2> Cool looking game - am DL'ing now. The first thing to me is that you should NOT have both on the same page - that is confusing as hell to me. Each version should have a separate page/section.

Okay - DL'ed and am playing. Tutorial is very well done - that is, until I got to the first Math move explanation. "Try adding 1 to row 2 by tapping it twice with the second tap to the RIGHT of the first one"

Whoa!

I did it but I don't know what happened. A highlight of, "Here's what happened after you did that" would have helped. I have no clue what I did because the popup screen completely covers up that section.

I was able to "get it" after going through the tutorial though (and solve my first one). I dig it - very cool idea.

So... to your question:

The terms "rotation moves" and "math moves" are confusing. I get "math moves" better than the other but it still isn't great. I don't think, actually, that you need to name the moves. In your explanation, you simple explain that you can move entire columns and rows and you can add or subtract 1 to entire columns and rows. "To move columns and rows, simply swipe the column or row in the direction you want it to go."

Thats the simple part - the hard part is explaining addition/subtraction. I think it needs more text than you currently have yet without the term "math move"</comment>


Network of cytoskeleton molecular motors parallely solves NP-complete problem - <AUTHOR> http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2016/02/17/1510825113 <comment><USER2> What I find interesting about this is the potential for biologists to sort of dogfood their own computing platforms for biology related problems...e.g. protein folding. Not saying it's going to happen, but there's possibly an interesting symmetry between computation and experimental apparatus.

<comment><AUTHOR> That's precisely right. I think between this and some of the upcoming work in memcomputing (& self-organzing electronics more broadly), we have a new set of tools which may resemble 'physical oracles' . IE, these special systems can compute exponentially difficult problems through thermodynamics or whatever other quantum-ally optimal properties biology has evolved to use. They may not be universal computers at first, but they ultimately may point the way forward towards that vision.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> This was discussed at length yesterday:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11186640](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11186640)

<comment><AUTHOR> thank you for linking it through.</comment></comment>


High-Speed Pool and Billiards Video Clips - <AUTHOR> http://billiards.colostate.edu/high_speed_videos/index.html

<comment><USER2> As a weekend project, some colleagues and I built a computer-vision pool-ball tracker a few years back.

[https://gocardless.com/blog/hacking-on-side-projects-the- poo...](https://gocardless.com/blog/hacking-on-side-projects-the-pool-ball- tracker/)

Would be awesome to use a high-framerate camera for this.

</comment><comment><USER3> Even for folks who know a lot of the basic physics in billiards, there is surprising depth. For example:

[http://billiards.colostate.edu/high_speed_videos/new/HSVB-34...](http://billiards.colostate.edu/high_speed_videos/new/HSVB-34.htm)

</comment><comment><USER4> As somewhat of a billiards enthusiast, I stumbled upon this site a few years ago. The biggest result of this was the discovery of "throw" and the ways that it can come into play (both intentionally and unintentionally). Once I learned how to control it, I started being able to make shots that I had once thought were impossible.

Many of these videos helped me to improve my intuitive understanding of the physics of the game, and made me a better player as a result. Thanks Dr. Dave!

</comment><comment><USER5> I was pretty disappointed after seeing that this is not billiards being played with a few second time limit for each shot.

<comment><USER6> You can find that here:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goWNDC8sdrw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goWNDC8sdrw)</comment></comment>


Vectordash: GPU instances for deep learning - <AUTHOR> https://vectordash.com/ <comment><USER2> What's your licensing situation with Nvidia regards their prohibition [1] on datacenter deployment for 'consumer' cards?

[1] [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16002068](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16002068)

<comment><USER3> It does not sound like they are deploying in datacenters: [https://vectordash.com/hosting/](https://vectordash.com/hosting/)

That said, the license also has this:

 _No Sublicensing or Distribution. Customer may not sell, rent, sublicense, distribute or transfer the SOFTWARE; or use the SOFTWARE for public performance or broadcast; or provide commercial hosting services with the SOFTWARE._

which seems to prohibit Vectordash's individual hosts from participating.

<comment><USER2> Ah right, hadn't seen that. Thanks! If the vectordash team are reading, I'd make the nature of the service a bit clearer to potential users. There's no mention I can find outside the 'hosting' page that these aren't your machines.

<comment><USER4> Gotcha! I'll update the copy to make that a bit clearer.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> If I understand correctly, the instances available are containerized instances that users run (i.e, the system matches hosts to guests and takes a cut).

Beyond being dangerous on multiple levels, there doesn't seem to be any guarantee of storage or network bandwidth/traffic. Having a multi-TFLOP GPU to train with is hardly useful if you can't get the training data on the device in a reasonable amount of time, or hold that data in local storage.

<comment><USER4> We ensure each instance has ample storage (min 50GB), internet speeds, and hardware specs such that the GPU is the bottleneck! If a user isn't satisfied with an instance, then there's no charge whatsoever :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> With more GPU-in-the-cloud offerings coming on line, is there a utility to dump GPU memory to see if your cloud provider has wiped it between customers?

<comment><USER4> Just read a pretty interesting paper on just this recently - we actually load/unload the drivers for every instance, which in turn also wipes the GPU's memory. There's a tool I wrote to test just this, albeit I haven't uploaded it to GitHub yet. Might do that sometime this weekend.

<comment><USER6> Do you happen to recall the title of the paper? Would be interested (in the utility as well if you do happen to upload it to github) Thanks!

<comment><USER4> Yes! Here's a link to the paper: [http://www.eurecom.fr/fr/publication/4205/download/rs- publi-...](http://www.eurecom.fr/fr/publication/4205/download/rs- publi-4205_1.pdf)</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Rebalancing Bike Sharing Systems: A Multi-Source Data Smart Optimization - <AUTHOR> http://www.kdd.org/kdd2016/subtopic/view/rebalancing-bike-sharing-systems-a-multi-source-data-smart-optimization <comment><AUTHOR> Additional References:

Data Skeptic podcast: [http://dataskeptic.com/epnotes/nyc-bikeshare- rebalancing.php](http://dataskeptic.com/epnotes/nyc-bikeshare-rebalancing.php)

KDD 2016 Talk, "Rebalancing Bike Sharing Systems: A Multi-source Data Smart Optimization" [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZB6UpW-5eRw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZB6UpW-5eRw)</comment>


Ask HN: What is the cutting-edge topic in your field of research? - <AUTHOR> <comment><USER2> Homomorphic encryption and quantum cryptography</comment>


Show HN: Difference Digests for Efficient Reconciliation - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/hundredwatt/difference_digest <comment><AUTHOR> I was trying to solve the problem of detecting "hard deletes" in an ETL pipeline that updates data incrementally by key and came across "Difference Digests" as described in this paper: [https://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/pubs/EppGooUye- SIGCOMM-11....](https://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/pubs/EppGooUye- SIGCOMM-11.pdf)

Basically, I wanted to figure out which rows were still in one database, but had been deleted from another, without downloading both and doing a row-by-row compare.

I open-sourced a Go implementation of "Difference Digests" that can encode large tables directly in a SQL database and then only download the relatively small bloom filters for comparison.

With this implementation, I benchmarked a data set of 10,000,000 rows that lives in 2 remote databases where 100 rows were deleted from 1 of the databases. Downloading the IDs from both tables would require 153MB of data transfer. Using the builtin SQL functions of difference digests requires only downloading 253KB (a 99.9% reduction!) to perform a full comparison and identify which 100 IDs had been deleted.

The amount of data transfer required is proportional to the number of differences, so for large data sets where you are detecting a small number of deletions, the performance is incredible!

I had a lot of fun implementing the algorithms (Strata Estimator and Invertible Bloom Filter) and hope others find this useful :)</comment>


The power of USERcycle - <AUTHOR> http://differential.io/blog/the-power-of-usercycle

<comment><USER2> Anyone have experience with them or another life cycle messaging app? Curious the amount of actual time/work needed to get setup...</comment>


Armitage – A Step by Step guide on How to Use to Hack Windows - geek-kb http://geek-kb.com/hacking-and-security/armitage-hack-windows/

<comment> geek-kb Sorry - we had a bug on our website - the link is now working correctly.</comment>


Ldraw: Lego Modeling in Rust - <AUTHOR> https://segfault87.github.io/ldraw-rs-preview/#models/car.ldr <comment><USER2> Hi, creator here. Never imagined this would make its way into HN. :)

I created this to study Rust(yes, I'm still new) and to explore what's possible with current Rust and WebAssembly. I think it turned out to be okay to continue with Rust and I'm more than happy.

Currently it comprises of a parser which reads LDraw([https://ldraw.org/](https://ldraw.org/)) file format and a basic renderer. For now the page itself is just a single page with rotating 3d model but eventually would transform into a complete website for creating and sharing your own creations.

If you are interested you can track the development at the GitHub repository([https://github.com/segfault87/ldraw.rs](https://github.com/segfault87/ldraw.rs)) It's slightly outdated and the current code heavily relies on the bleeding edge of Rust (e.g., nightly, async await, futures 0.3, wasm-bindgen, ...) and needs to be cleaned up before pushing.

If you want more complex model you can try this instead: [https://segfault87.github.io/ldraw-rs- preview/#models/6973.l...](https://segfault87.github.io/ldraw-rs- preview/#models/6973.ldr)

<comment><USER3> I've always been a JS-focused web developer, with only a bit of experience in other languages (ObjC, Java). I'm trying to build a web app that heavily focuses on 2D graphics. I'm considering going with Rust + WASM, but I don't know anything about Rust.

After doing this project, how would you say you feel about this stack? Yay? Nay? I know that's a vague question, but curious if you ran into any particular troubles. I'm not sure how ready WASM is for production apps.

<comment><USER4> WASM is basically ready for 2 kinds of app:

1\. Heavy computation with no UI.

2\. Stuff that renders to Web GL.

For the rest your still best off with JavaScript. 2D graphics is pretty borderline I'd say. More work in Rust+WASM, but doable.

Rust itself is wonderful, and well worth learning for the backend if you ever do that kind of stuff.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> When I run this (Firefox 69.0 on Linux), I see basically nothing. The developer console says:

      RuntimeError: "unreachable executed"
          r https://segfault87.github.io/ldraw-rs-preview/2.index.js:1
          r https://segfault87.github.io/ldraw-rs-preview/2.index.js:1
          Gt https://segfault87.github.io/ldraw-rs-preview/2.index.js:1
          __wbg_new_1719c88e1a2035ea https://segfault87.github.io/ldraw-rs-preview/index.js:1
          a https://segfault87.github.io/ldraw-rs-preview/2.index.js:1
          <anonymous> https://segfault87.github.io/ldraw-rs-preview/index.js:1

<comment><USER6> I have an Ubuntu machine where it works in both Firefox 69.0 (with glitches, as another commenter noted) and Chromium, and another Ubuntu machine where it works in neither. Might be a graphics driver issue?

</comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> [https://github.com/segfault87/ldraw.rs](https://github.com/segfault87/ldraw.rs)

</comment><comment><USER7> I get `RuntimeError: "unreachable executed"` on firefox nightly (two core2duo machines, linux and win10)

is wasm unsupported ?

<comment><USER8> No issues on my machine on Linux 5.3, running today's build of Firefox Nightly.

<comment><USER7> I didn't see some GL error prior this line, maybe the problem is my igpu.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Really nifty demo.

I've never used wasm before, but I am curious how people feel about the size of the binaries. I am a JS developer and am well aware how bloated a project can get quickly. I agree with the majority that we need to keep our projects lean - especially for the web/mobile, hence this general inquiry.

      - I built a simple hello world in Rust (alert message) and the binary weighed 1kb - nice!
      - I found some sample code ~100 lines of Conway's game of life[1] and that binary is 28kb.
      - I see Ldraw weighs around 131kb - still very impressive.

I don't know yet how wasm will be used in the world professionally, and it is very exciting to me as I am really interested in Rust, but will we start seeing some HUGE binaries out there?

[1] [https://rustwasm.github.io/book/game-of- life/implementing.ht...](https://rustwasm.github.io/book/game-of- life/implementing.html)

</comment><comment><USER10> Is there actual modeling? The site just shows a rotating object.

<comment><USER11> This is a legitimate question as the title says "Lego Modeling in Rust"

Perhaps the idea is that the user models the object entirely by writing Rust code.

<comment><USER12> No, it is rendering lego models loaded from a specific file format.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Any idea why this runs completely smoothly on Chromium but on Firefox it's glitchy (apparently missing colors on some surfaces) and the FPS are much lower?

</comment><comment><USER14> Rust is set up to take over the web. WASM with no need to GC will make for eye-bleedingly fast code.

Just wait for Rust to get a DOM API and MVC/data binding framework. UI responsiveness will be incredible, and webapps will feel light weight again. I see a good Rust web frontend library eating React/Vue's lunch.

<comment><USER15> I'd hope this was the case, but big part of what has made web development popular and smooth is the easiness and flexibility of JavaScript as a language.

Rust is not exactly easy and flexible, but everything else about it is absolutely great. I think people who will use/learn Rust are top x% or xx% developers who have decent experience in programming and probably understand pretty well how computers and computer systems work.

Javascript has democratized programming and React/Redux stack is widely accepted by developers as well as people looking after business interests in companies doing software development.

Rust would probably make world (of software) a better place, but there would be much less developers available and there already is global shortage of devs while demand is increasing. I don't see Rust replacing JS or React/Vue anytime soon.

<comment><USER16> Rust will absolutely replace JS! You can compile it down to WebASM and people will start doing that soon. No more runtime errors in browsers! Yipee!

<comment><USER17> Rust is great but too cognitive-heavy to have any shot at replacing JS.

One should not overestimate the importance of secure/fast over "gets shit done easily with minimal learning curve" on most projects.

<comment><USER16> > too cognitive-heavy

Don't underestimate people's intelligence! (Or overestimate your own.) I think people will get it. Javascript is also very cognitive heavy.

<comment><USER17> At work, time and energy are best used solving real world problems. Not toying with technology for the sake of it.

And surely you're joking when comparing JS's cognitive load with Rust's...

<comment><USER14> Have you used Rust with an IDE? It's not at all hard to write. Hard to learn, sure. But it's easy to produce once you know how it works.

Javascript without types and an IDE takes thought. You have to keep remembering which things are which type and how they get plumbed though the stack.

Honestly I'd even say Rust is easier. But I've written a lot of Rust.

Typescript with an IDE makes Javascript easier.

The "Rust is hard" meme needs to die. The language designers have worked tirelessly to ensure that the language is accessible and productive.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> This doesn't work on iOS even though I thought IOS supported wasm?

<comment><USER2> Currently Safari does not support WebGL2. Currently renderer depends on WebGL2 (which supports vertex array object out of the box).

<comment><USER19> iOS 13 seems to support WebGL2 pretty well. The rendered model looks really good. You have to enable WebGL2 in the Safari settings under Advanced -> Experimental features</comment></comment></comment>


Drash: A new approach to building web servers - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/drashland/deno-drash <comment><USER2> The syntax and patterns laid out by Express (which in turn was inspired by others) have stuck around for so long, so it's super exciting to see a fresh take like this spring up.</comment>


StuffBox launches instant feedback engine - <AUTHOR> http://www.stuffbox.com

<comment><AUTHOR> Do you think this idea will work? If so would it be useful?</comment>


Ask HN: Has anyone else had a bad experience at Stack Overflow? - <AUTHOR> I don't want to go into the gnarly details, just say I've found their treatment of me as a fairly new user to be pretty bad. The seemingly infinite list of rules are opaque. You can lose privileges with only a guess as to why. No feedback is given to a new user as to what they did wrong. And finally any inquiry into this is met with open hostility from the "meta" community.<p>I'm just wondering if anyone else has had a good/bad experience with SO. <comment> a-dub I've found it amusing that sometimes I'll be Googling around researching something, generally with respect to making an architectural decision (should I use library X or Y, what are the pros and cons) type stuff and on occasion I've found a really nice detailed question on Stack Overflow asking for opinions or experiences using X or Y and then there will even be a few thoughtful and really useful responses that were starting to lead into quite an excellent discussion of real wisdom coming from real world longer term experiences people have had and then the moderators helpfully show up and promptly close the question as "not constructive."

I don't think I've ever posted a question, nor really considered it to be honest.

<comment><USER2> Stack Overflow to me is a Read Only resource. Just like Wikipedia.

Trying to contribute is a waste of time as both have been taken over by power tripping mods who have zero interest in furthering the resource and instead gain some form of enjoyment from petty drama and treating users like little kids. The leadership of both seem to have no problem with this, so I search, scrape, and leave, with no account on either and no desire to contribute (despite being someone with endless spare time and a desire to contribute to resources where I can).

<comment><USER3> All of this was fixed back in April ([https://stackoverflow.blog/2018/04/26/stack-overflow-isnt- ve...](https://stackoverflow.blog/2018/04/26/stack-overflow-isnt-very- welcoming-its-time-for-that-to-change/)).

(tongue firmly planted in cheek)

<comment><AUTHOR> There's a big thread in the "meta" forum about this blog post: [https://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/373158/what-does- ou...](https://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/373158/what-does-our-long- term-community-need-what-does-our-long-term-community-need-t)

(but you need 50 rep points to leave a comment)

<comment><USER3> That almost reads as "we tried to be nicer to reach out to a wider audience, but in the process we alienated our existing community of elitest curmudgeons".

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> I was a very early stackoverflow user. I was excited and loved the idea. I still think it's a great idea, but I've come to abhor the police state moderation culture. To directly answer your question, yes, I completely agree that something has gone horribly wrong. I've forgotten more incidents than I can remember, but a few points I do remember: many good questions are closed; I've had questions hidden by people who (by their own admission) did not understand the tech being asked about but decided incorrectly the question was a duplicate; and I've seen some harmful cultural values widely supported on the meta pages.

My general impression is that some moderators seem to think of themselves as the gatekeepers to a promised land of knowledge, and the unwashed masses are just trying to ruin their pristine gardens, and must be aggressively pushed back. The truth is that stackoverflow can only exist because people like both receiving and giving help with their expertise. The site would be much better if it put this benevolence at its core rather than the guarded-perfect-garden model.

</comment><comment><USER5> I tried to engage with SO when I first started programming about 8 years ago, but I think I said something someone didn't like or that wasn't technically allowed by their rules or something. I think they wanted me to ask a bunch of my own questions to get up my points. I didn't have any questions to ask. I gave up on it.

Over the last 8 years I've used answers on SO many times, as I've been directed there by Google. There have been MANY times I could have provided a much better answer or clarification than any others, but I don't because as far as I'm aware, SO still won't let me. I don't really care since it doesn't affect me, but I do like to help out others when I can. SO's loss really.

<comment><USER6> Anyone can post an answer.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> Stack Overflow has always been good to me, if:

\- I detail my previous attempts

\- I talk about what I think is wrong, or admit that I have no idea

\- Check out the documentation before, fix small syntax issues

\- Provide minimal code, or additional code to provide context if its a specific problem-related issue

\- Link to any other relevant issues, on GitHub or elsewhere

Basically, the more effort I put into my question, the more SO gives back.

<comment><USER8> Same here. I don't ask too many questions these days, but have always got help if I formed my questions as specific as possible, and provided relevant code.

I (try to) do some moderating each week on new user questions, and the biggest issues are: Posts don't have code in them, and are entirely too broad. Them number of times I've left the comment "please post some code" is in the hundreds.

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> Absolutely, it's toxic. Especially asking questions! This was very disturbing each of the 4 or 5 times I tried, on several SE sites. Only once got a helpful answer, but that was the question I cared least about. Having questions closed immediately is the norm. By people who don't understand the question. Once I was shunted between several different sites, as it was deemed to fit better somewhere else. I never bother any more. Similar to wikipedia (although toxic in a different way) - great to look at from the outside, but better not to get involved asking questions/editing - life's too short to wrangle with such people and the system they inhabit.

The best question/answer pages on there were almost universally closed for not fitting the site.

But they're a wonderful resource for googling quick answers to questions! The TeX/LaTeX one is particularly awesome - the most active people answering questions are the very same people who wrote the best books and packages.

</comment><comment><USER10> If I can be a representative of the majority of users, I'd say I have a positive experience just consuming it, logged out.

</comment><comment><USER11> The organization is aware of and open about this complaint - see their blog post from earlier this year.

[https://stackoverflow.blog/2018/04/26/stack-overflow-isnt- ve...](https://stackoverflow.blog/2018/04/26/stack-overflow-isnt-very- welcoming-its-time-for-that-to-change/)

I've never had complaints myself, but after reading the linked blog post I've started noticing the bullies (especially in the question comments) when I'm on the site.

</comment><comment><USER12> I'm reluctant to use SO to ask questions based on most of the responses here, and rarely have the opportunity to contribute, but I did have a surprisingly good interaction a couple years ago. I'd googles around for some esoteric solution, and eventually honed in on a 95% solution on SO. After figuring out the last piece I went to add a comment to the accepted answer with my details based on my setup, but didn't have enough karma. So I added my solution and apologized about not having the karma and it belonged as a comment to the more complete answer, and forgot about it. Next time I'd checked back, I found someone had given me the karma to comment. I didn't even know anyone could give karma, but it certainly wasn't from upvotes. So that was maybe a rare nice event on SO.

</comment><comment><USER13> Like others here I use it as a read-only resource now despite having an account. It is tremendously useful for when I get stuck and there are enough questions that generally the answer you need is on there.

I no longer contribute because the community is toxic. Some of it is due to the condescending attitudes. Look at any beginner question and see the "Why didn't you just try XYZ?" comments from self-described experts. SO has also gamified the reporting system, so people abuse the feature to flag questions. Then there are the debates within the comments about the merits of solution ABC vs DEF.

I've wanted to ask questions or provide answers but the culture was too off- putting.

</comment><comment><USER14> Sure, and Wikipedia and Facebook. Community censorship will never work out.

<comment><USER14> Thinking about it, on the other hand Quora is excellent so far. Much higher quality, no jerks, no unneeded censorship. Maybe it's too young.

</comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> FWIW I made a meta post about my experience which I realize now that I've seen it - sounds exactly like the 'Welcoming" blog linked below - word for word. It went over about as well as you'd expect.

At least someone is aware of the issue. SO is such a great resource. I'd hate to see it die. The community just needs to take themselves and the content a lot less seriously imo.

</comment><comment><USER15> The userbase at SO is one of the most toxic I've ever encountered. I've answered questions for people, and other users on the site treat it like an extreme competition to have the accepted answer in order to accumulate fake internet points, I guess. Got really nasty messages from some of the users and will never interact on that site again after having this happen for a few weeks.

</comment><comment><USER16> Each board is its own Community. Making a blanket comment like this without naming the specific board is actually not that useful. I have seen some of the meta discussions by aggrieved users, and it usually comes down to something the user did without first looking up the answer themselves, trying to find the answer themselves, or even clicking on some of the suggested articles that will appear after they've simply typed a few words in the subject line.

People on this board are volunteers. Many of the boards expect you to try to solve the problem yourself before asking. When you asked, it is very useful if you spend time formulating the question correctly, so that others after you that have the same problem can understand the answers in context.

<comment><USER17> I think it's pretty safe to assume he means stackoverflow.com.

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> Not on stackoverflow, but on some other pages of the stackexchange networks my comments sometimed got deleted without any feedback by whom or why.

</comment><comment><USER19> May be just me, but the quality of the answers usually sends me back to google to try another site.

</comment><comment><USER20> If you don't post details of your SO account so that other people can go evaluate your post/comment history for themselves, then this just comes across as evidence-free whingeing, which is the worst kind of whingeing. "I did nothing wrong, honest!" is very easy to say.

I was so close to flagging this post, but I figured I'd be generous and wait to see if you come back and give any information at all.

<comment><USER21> > I was so close to flagging this post, but I figured I'd be generous...

How generous, what is your SO account details?

<comment><USER20> I'm not the one who posted complaining about maltreatment.</comment></comment></comment>


C/C++ Low Level Curriculum Part 7: More Conditionals - <AUTHOR> http://www.altdevblogaday.com/2012/04/10/cc-low-level-curriculum-part-7-more-conditionals/

<comment> excuse-me Another higher level and more useful use of the ?: operator is to set const values

const int bytesPerPixel = haveAlphaChannel() ? 4 : 3;

This is useful for optimizating compilers - the more values in a function you can make const the better it can do. And is especially useful for parallel code like OMP/TBB

<comment><USER2> const doesn't help most optimizing compilers, it only really helps prevent programmer clumsiness. Since most C/C++ compiler IR's are SSA-based all values are effectively const anyways at the level optimizations are performed whether or not they're mutable in the original source code.

<comment> excuse-me Yes it's probably only really useful for parallel code, but it's always nice to make constant things const.

<comment><USER3> Why use "const int" there instead of #define? Far fewer issues with linkage and use in multiple files with #define.

<comment><USER4> No. If it's const it is static be default. This is the kind of shit that makes the windows api the royal pain in the ass it is.

<comment><USER3> >If it's const it is static be default.

If it's const at the file scope it's notably NOT static in the 'visible in the file scope only' sense of the word.

Try it, declare a const int at file scope in a C file and use it in a different C file with a extern prototype.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


DraftKings raises $150M in new funding just in time for the NFL season - <AUTHOR> https://techcrunch.com/2016/09/01/draftkings-raises-150m-in-new-funding-just-in-time-for-the-nfl-season/ <comment><USER2> Investment in the face of trouble. Legal situation solvable, much more worrisome is fish vs shark dynamic.

New money (casual fish) is drying up as they push down the adoption curve, long term, there are only a limited number of hedge fund types that want to devote themselves to this.</comment>


Ask HN: Mobile app builder with native source code? - <AUTHOR> Is there any drag&drop mobile app builder, which produces native source code? A code, which can be easily edited? <comment><USER2> xcode

<comment><AUTHOR> Xcode is purely code, isn't it?

I was thinking about tools like mobilesmith.com, appery.io, kinetise.com, appgyver, appian, etc. I think none of these offers source code, but I was wondering if there is any, which does.</comment></comment>


Show HN: MIT Open Course Ware downloadable links for computer science - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/mseshachalam/open-course-ware <comment><USER2> thanks</comment>


Simh/simh: The Computer History Simulation Project - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/simh/simh <comment><USER2> To me, the most amazing thing about old systems was how little resources they needed to do useful work. The first version of Unix was designed to run on a machine with in 24KB (that's _kilobytes_ ) of core memory; even the famous and ubiquitous IBM System 360 was quite constrained by today's standards. "The software that controls what happens when you move your mouse on your PC — the mouse driver for Windows — takes more memory than all the NASA supercomputers put together had for Apollo," said Jones."[1]

That's right, they called them "supercomputers."

[1] [https://www.techrepublic.com/article/nasas-unsung-heroes- the...](https://www.techrepublic.com/article/nasas-unsung-heroes-the-apollo- coders-who-put-men-on-the-moon/)

<comment><USER3> > The first version of Unix was designed to run on a machine with in 24KB > (that's kilobytes) of core memory

The very first of UNIX actually ran on a machine that couldn't even address that much memory, the PDP-7 has 13 bit addresses so you can only address 8k words of memory directly (1 word = 18 bits). The UNIX (or rather UNICS) kernel ran in 4k and left the other 4k for a user process; every context switch was a swap! If you want to try it out: [https://github.com/DoctorWkt/pdp7-unix](https://github.com/DoctorWkt/pdp7-unix)

<comment><USER2> Right. That was "Edition Zero" \- naturally, UNIX version count is zero-based!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Longtime SIMH user here. The most amazing aspect of this project is the tangential remark visible in its Wikipedia page ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIMH](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIMH)): _has been in development in one form or another since the 1960s_ : this software predates UNIX by approximately a decade.

</comment><comment><USER5> I was really disappointed when I clicked through and discovered it's not an attempt to recreate all of human history via a computer simulation.

<comment><USER2> English is left-associative.

<comment><AUTHOR> Actually, it isn't. An "automatic donut maker" doesn't make automatic donuts.

Compound adjectives in English should be hyphenated, so strictly speaking, the GP is correct and the headline should have been: "The Computer-History Simulation Project."

<comment><USER2> Good point about hyphenation, except it should probably be used the other way around: your example should be spelled "automatic donut-maker" (which looks more natural to me than "Computer-History").

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Would it be possible to make a libretro version of simh ? Or does that already exist?</comment>


Birds 'falling out of the sky' in mass die-off in south-western US - <AUTHOR> https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/sep/16/birds-falling-out-of-the-sky-in-mass-die-off-in-south-western-us-aoe <comment><USER2> It was the massive surge of cold air that spewed into Colorado last week. The same surge that caused the massive winds in CA / OR / WA to churn up small fires.

Those birds left CO for the South - probably don't normally get that in the middle of summer.

There's very little smoke in NM. Some but not enough to kill the birds or cause them to fly a billion miles. That was the summer cold snap that did it.

This is a classic case of not enough Ornithological Meteorologists or Meteorological Ornithologists. Or maybe because the Ornithological convention and Meteorological convention (which are normally hosted in the same hotel in September) were both cancelled this year due to Covid-19. (this last paragraph was a failed attempt at humor)

<comment><USER3> I'd need to see evidence of this, there's a lot of propaganda about climate change causing things "on both sides" so I would like to see a reference to this effect before I believe it!

<comment><USER4> > evidence

The problem with climate change is precisely this.

In order to convince everyone we need evidence. However evidence, strictly and scientifically speaking, can only be produced once a phenomenon is fully observed, understood, and reproducible.

In the case of climate change that means waiting for the changes to fully happen, which would be too late if climate change is indeed real.

So you are left with a choice: trust the partial data we have and conclude that climate change is happening, or deny it and hope it never materializes. The third option would be to consciously prefer to wait for climate change to fully materialize and only then take action, but this to me sounds a bit suicidal.

<comment><USER5> I mean, the sky was orange and the sun never came out. The ice just keeps melting when it shouldn't. The hurricanes are getting worse. The years just get hotter.

It's _happening_ , present tense. The data is in, you can see it with your own eyes. It's clear as day (pun intended).

<comment><USER6> Yep, that's great. It's also happened many times in the past when no documented industrial civilization existed.

There is a long term correlation with solar activity(CME's,Sunspots,Solar flares) that can attest for large climatic swings of the past.

The science is not clear as day, and if you stopped searching for the truth of the matter you've stopped do science.

<comment><USER7> > There is a long term correlation with solar activity(CME's,Sunspots,Solar > flares) that can attest for large climatic swings of the past.

Based on 2020's level of solar activity, would you expect it to be hotter or colder than it actually is?

Because from what I've seen, you'd expect it to be colder.

Which means something else is causing the temperature rise.

So why bring up solar activity at all?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> The first sentence of this article describes the die-off as "inexplicable", but the sub-title gives a couple explanations including the massive fires and resulting smoke which is covering the western US. Watching the animals outside my house, I wonder how this smoke must be effecting them, but evolution must have led them out of wildfire conditions in the past.

<comment><USER9> I commented somewhere else here with a link to a researcher posting about findings. The link is to a twitter thread, and several posts down they say, _" The birds seem to be in relatively good condition, except that they are extremely emaciated. They have no fat reserves and barely any muscle mass. Almost as if they have been flying until they just couldn't fly anymore."_

<comment><USER10> Almost like...their reflex is to fly until they are out of the smoke. Which is adaptive when dealing with small fires, and lethal when they are unable to fly far enough to get out of the smoke.

<comment><USER9> I'd be happy to read any reputable paper, article, or discussion thread you can find about it. Seems like something that would be falsifiable and has been researched already, so not worth debating about in the hypothetical.

<comment><USER10> I am not a researcher, but [https://www.audubon.org/news/how-wildfires-affect- birds](https://www.audubon.org/news/how-wildfires-affect-birds) would seem to be a reputable source. It was written in 2017, but is relevant to the current situation.

Multiple passages in it are relevant to this issue. Birds do try to fly away from fire. We have evidence that smoke inhalation is worse for birds than mammals (which would mean that birds would need to flee smoke, and not just the flames). And the possibility of birds dying of exhaustion from trying to fly away was already a concern to wildlife conservationists.

None of which is proof. But it is all suggestive that I'm making a reasonable guess as to why they are dying.

<comment><USER9> Not a researcher in this area, either. And no need to be, we are probably able to evaluate research. Great article. I will say that some sources ([https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/15/us/dead-birds-new- mexico-...](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/15/us/dead-birds-new-mexico- colorado.html)) indicate that migratory bird die off observations started in mid-Aug, which would not jibe with the fire timelines ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/August_Complex_fire#Timeline](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/August_Complex_fire#Timeline)). Also, the linked article submission talks about New Mexico, Texas, and even Nebraska which are hundreds of miles from the fires and generally outside of areas of NWS smoke forecast concern ([https://www.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=2ff16...](https://www.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=2ff1677111ae4018ac705fcce7c3312f))

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> The sky was red a few days ago. I'm guessing its that. I don't know. I'm not 100% sure, but that was the one thing out of the normal

<comment><USER12> Is the smoke 'clean', meaning is it just plantation that is being consumed by fire or there is also a large percentage of toxic smoke into the air?

Has there been significant number of homes/cars/factories (I am thinking things that upon being burnt would release a chemical/toxic cloud)(thinking the difference of burning 100kg of wood Vs burning 100kg of laptops and how different the smoke would be in damaging health)

<comment><USER13> Wood smoke itself is surprisingly toxic; all sorts of nasty combustion products.

<comment><USER14> True, but our definition of toxic has changed. Humans have been living with wood smoke for millennia, it may not be great for you but it isn't very new in terms of evolutionary presence. Smoke from burning industrial chemicals is a newer thing, and certainly some of these industrial toxins can kill or injure you far more quickly than wood smoke. So a warehouse full of laptops burning (and probably painted with lead) is something I'd want to take extra precautions to avoid vs wildfire smoke.

<comment><USER12> Thank you for that comment.

My post above got downvoted (and I don't care) but it's all about the point I was trying to make and it was clearly misunderstood.

Btw my father is a retired fireman and the nomenclature ("chemical", "toxic") is his. Every time there is a fire in the news we talk about it and he gives me his input on the impact. And he has dealt with many types of fires (forests, offices, chemical factories, living blocks, etc.)

The destruction in nature is unfortunate and nobody wants it. But the impact from the smoke (and wait until all that crap in the air goes over you city, and then wait for it to rain all that toxic crap will end up on your parks and streets and schools).. and then you will start driving your car and part of the "dust" that will get back into your breathable air will be.. you guessed it.. what has been burning for so many days.

Thus the difference between burnt trees Vs burnt homes/factories/chemicals (100kg wood vs 100kg laptops as an extreme example). Wood - you cough, laptops you get lung cancer.

The crap that is in the smoke, sooner or later, here or there, will make come back down, and THAT matters.

<comment><USER15> > Wood - you cough

> Emissions from wood smoke, discussed below, can cause coughing, wheezing, > asthma attacks, heart attacks, lung cancer, and premature death, among other > health effects.

[https://www.lung.org/clean-air/at-home/indoor-air- pollutants...](https://www.lung.org/clean-air/at-home/indoor-air- pollutants/residential-wood-burning)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> How serendipitous. I was just chatting with my partner and we heard birds chirping outside our house.

I realized that I had not heard them for a couple weeks now and guessed it had to do with the awful smoke conditions here in Portland. The smoke is still bad but it is noticeably less apocalyptic this morning. I thought birds would flee bad smoke like this but maybe they were just holed up in their nests waiting for things to improve, same as us?

<comment><USER17> Noticed the same thing today, birds are back in our yard, here in So Cal.

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> From the initial posting, it seems these birds avoided the smoke. Miners used to use canaries in coal mines to detect gas. Birds are exquisitely sensitive to combustion fumes. Their instinct is to get far away. It appears they fled to an insect free desert area and kept pushing on until they literally exhausted their fat reserves. The only way I can think to help them is to scatter some meal worms on the ground in the hopes that you will save a few. It will have to done on a wide area = probably not practical. The only long term solution is to change forest management to allow the understory of brush/grass/small trees to burn every 2-3 years via intentional fires. In addition substantial clear zones around all homes in addition to stripes of clear zones every 1/2 mile as fire breaks. These highly packed stand of trees with thick understories burn to the ground, kill all trees and sterilize the soil of seeds so nothing grows for a while until wind scatters in new seeds. California has done this to itself, with the help of The Sierra Club (who lobbied against preventive burns because the home owners loved the trees and bushes where they lived) You reap what you sow. Changes MUST come ASAP

</comment><comment><USER13> I've heard smoke inhalation cited as a possible cause for this, but it looks too early for a definitive explanation.

<comment><USER19> The smoke is _really bad_ in the west.

[https://fire.airnow.gov/](https://fire.airnow.gov/)

<comment><USER20> Looking at it, and the extent I begin to wonder about the global implications of that. Probably doesn't rise as high as a volcanic eruption or nuclear mushroom, but this is _massive_.

<comment><USER21> Combine that with similar massive fires in Australia happening on the opposite season and the fact that this is only going to get worse with time.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> I was walking the trash bins down our long drive to the road yesterday in a soup of wildfire smoke and fog when it occurred to me — we sure have a compartmentalized way of looking at the issues plaguing the world right now.

Part of that is the sheer complexity of our contemporary world. There are few polymaths — most are specialists. It feels like we're sorely lacking people who see across many fields to synthesize everything that's happening.

But it feels pretty clear that the system is on the fritz, has been for a while, and we're incredibly stupid to not take bold action to fix it. Instead, we're still having arguments about whether people are the cause. Of. Course. We. Are.

<comment><USER23> _we're still having arguments about whether people are the cause. Of. Course. We. Are._

You seem to discount the anthropocentric argument (as it should be) and then promptly jump right in to it. Why does it matter what the cause is?

<comment><USER24> It's generally more difficult to actually fix something without knowing the cause.

<comment><USER25> It's even more difficult when the cause has been known for decades but doesn't jive with people's means of income or religious views and is thus roundly ignored or debated in bad faith.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> They have started an iNaturalist project.[1] If you find any dead bird in the affected areas you can submit the pictures of it to the project database. It will help in identification and understanding the scale of impact.

[1]: [https://www.inaturalist.org/projects/southwest-avian- mortali...](https://www.inaturalist.org/projects/southwest-avian-mortality- project)

</comment><comment><USER27> I feel like this story gets repeated every few years on HN.

Checking one was 10 year ago.

I think it's funny people think you can have a collective oral history that's factual.

Yet even with computers and internet we get the apocalyptical death cult going on and on about the end of the world and the mysticism.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2079371](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2079371)

"Dead Bird Panic", I like that comment.

<comment><USER28> "Everything is fine. This is all normal."

[https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/19/science/bird- populations-...](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/19/science/bird-populations- america-canada.html)

<comment><USER27> > "Everything is fine. This is all normal."

Thanks. I knew it was a repetitive moral panic.

Definitely every few years in western media we get a cycle of hysteria. Over the world I'd say yearly about the "birds falling dead from the sky" as we are all smitten :)

You can spell it out, but it's all repeated.

<comment><USER27> Oh, here's a big list, with links to articles from all over the world.

But it does talk about how it might be 5G, which fit's pretty well with the comments here.

[https://fendaux.com/why-are-dead-birds-falling-from-the- sky/](https://fendaux.com/why-are-dead-birds-falling-from-the-sky/)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER29> Anything to do with all the smoke and CO2 constantly streaming up there?

</comment><comment><USER30> >> ... climate crisis cited as possible causes for the deaths of thousands of migrating species heading south for the winter

Yes it was because of global cooling... The insufficient amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere is causing the well documented 'icebox effect' to occur.

We need to get our coal power plants running at full steam in order to counteract the cooling.

</comment><comment><USER31> Bunch of elephants were dropping the other day in Namibia too. Nature isn't coping...

<comment><USER32> A source for curious people: [https://talkinghumanities.blogs.sas.ac.uk/2020/09/10/why- are...](https://talkinghumanities.blogs.sas.ac.uk/2020/09/10/why-are- elephants-dying-in-zimbabwe-and-botswana/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER33> Whose traveling back in time out there? Thought the portal was only in Germany

<comment><USER34> Seems to be one of those things just weird enough to get used in fiction regularly as shorthand for "something is _really_ wrong" \- it was part of the trailers for Jericho [0] and a plot point over the course of FlashForward [1].

[0] [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jericho_(2006_TV_series)](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jericho_\(2006_TV_series\))

[1] [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/FlashForward](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/FlashForward)

<comment><USER35> Birds are significantly more susceptible to acute radiation injury than humans (cf. [https://www.nature.com/articles/srep16594](https://www.nature.com/articles/srep16594) \- not directly on point, but the dose rate relationships can be trivially compared with those widely documented for humans, e.g. at [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acute_radiation_syndrome#Dose_...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acute_radiation_syndrome#Dose_effects)). I suspect that's where the association originates, and the use of the trope fits in especially well with _Jericho_ 's plot, which opens with a nuclear war.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER36> I have been told on this forum that the men and women working in wildlife conservation are in it for vanity or for self gratification. Relatedly, I have been told on this forum that there is nothing that regular folks can do about climate change.

But then events like this happen, and no one reflects on how fatally pessimistic this community can be. Are we ourselves not capable of forecasting the effect of a burning state on migration patterns? Are we as a society not blessed with enough resources to intervene? If we could all agree to do something—no matter how trivial—to minimize the destruction, instead of doing nothing and attacking the ideas of those who do anything, maybe the aggregate effect would be that events like this are avoided.

If you're in this fight, please let me know how else I can help. I'm going to check on my bird feeders in the meantime.

<comment><USER37> So much this. The events from the past years have already been difficult to digest. But every time I come and read comments, I'm even more depressed, anxious. "no matter if you don't drive, or stop meat; it won't be enough". "nice that you're stopping commuting, but that won't suffice". "offsetting by planting trees is not good enough compared to net zero". Or worse, dismissive like "it only helps with your own self-guilt".

This usually leaves me so depressed.

Yes, I realize all those actions won't suffice, even if we all agree to apply them starting tomorrow. And yes, we need both local and global impact for things to move forward. But I also believe that if everyone starts doing their part : buying less, reducing meat, whatever, it will get discussed more and more and become a concrete part of society much faster.

Guessing OP and I will get downvoted though, which is fine. HN has a fair share of the brightest minds in Tech and related, sometimes I miss a bunch of less pragmatic positivity.

<comment><USER36> I took an elective wildlife conservation class while earning my Master's. I had no right to be there, because I was surrounded by the brightest, most pragmatic minds I had ever met. The work that my classmates had done to stop destruction, or to sustain populations through novel solutions, was awe inspiring. We don't see it here, and there's an obvious reason for why that might be, but there are amazing people out there who are making the world a better place than it would otherwise be. The least I can do is not just give up. Thank you for doing your part. I really appreciate it.

<comment><USER37> My use of pragmatic was really not meant to be dismissive. My English is not always as good as I'd like it to be :).

Every time there is a discussion about climate change, there are comments in the lines of "we are in danger, Earth is not". That's entirely correct, but it doesn't help much :).

Thanks for the kind words, you are definitely right, many people are working in the right direction. We need to listen to them more.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER38> On the topic of seeing across many fields, it's occurred to me there is a common theme across the crises of 2020 (particularly as seen through the lens of the US): "I can't breathe".

Covid: check

George Floyd's murder which sparked worldwide protests: check

Smoke covering half the US: check

Not that I'm a polymath or have any answers. My approach to these problems is to leave the fate of the world to those who hold the power and just do my best to locally mitigate the damage.

<comment><USER39> the internal instability within western nations has reached the point that our national psyche has regressed to the lower levels of maslow's hierarchy

we've regressed from self-actualization and are now focused on issues of survival

<comment><USER40> If our ecology really is collapsing, this is going to get worse. As resources become more and more scarce, powerful first-world countries are not going to want to regress in their standards of living, which I speculate is going to lead to increased global conflict.

<comment><USER39> our inability to deal with the climate collapse is only a second-order effect, we are completely unable to deal with _anything_ right now. If it wasn't the climate crisis, and if it wasn't the pandemic, it would be something else. Our political system is far too polarized and far too plagued by anti- intellectualism, it simply can't respond to anything.

Russia and conservative media (murdoch media, etc) seeding regressive/anti- intellectual movements has been massively successful, western society is just completely unprepared to deal with freedom of speech being leveraged to spew an unending firehose of bullshit, it's a "copyleft" style trojan approach of using our own democratic values against us.

The firehose of bullshit has led to the rise of anti-intellectual movements, an anti-intellectual president, and a party that just votes absolutely lockstep with him no matter what he does. They don't give a shit about absolutely anything, not fires or hurricanes or plagues, and just let all these problems fester. It has a lot of other negative effects too of course, but we have reached the point where we simply can't respond even to acute crises anymore, our system has long-since lost its higher functioning in terms of setting goals and being able to execute them (what you'd call "self- actualization" in maslow's hierachy) and now is struggling even to maintain basic homeostasis (the "physical needs" tier of the maslow hierarchy).

(I include Brexit, Bolsanaro, Duarte, etc in this as well - western democracy is in _deep fucking shit_ worldwide and if we don't get our shit together and deal with the firehose of falsehoods we will be supplanted by more authoritarian forms of government that don't suffer this vulnerability because they don't tolerate free speech and dissent.)

It is also super depressing to know that even with everything that's gone on, less than 5% of america has even changed its mind. Even with the plague, even with the fires, even with civil unrest and mass arrests, even as the post office is dismantled and we lose the ability even to get a fucking package on time, 40% of america will go in the booth and pull the lever for more of this. It goes beyond just "doesn't affect me, who cares", or "that's 20 years from now me's problem", this has all affected everyone, _now_ , _today_ , and people still want more as long as they get to own the libs. It's maddening.

<comment><USER41> Anti intellectualism has a root cause.

Intellectuals have led us to credit crisis. But "Nobody saw it coming!" Is not a response. Remember that statement?

Intellectuals have led us to forever wars everywhere.

Intellectuals have overseen the collapse of the family unit in the last 70 years

Intellectuals old us in the 90s that the polar caps would melt in....2020

Intellectuals have led us to a permanent underclass of people in cities like detroit, chicago, NY and Philadelphia.

I'd say that's enough. People have a right to call out the bullshit.

Because most of what intellectuals say is bullshit.

Human knowledge is limited. intellectuals have failed to exercise basic humility.

The bill is now due and those institutions need to dissappear (unis, newspapers etc) so something new can rise.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER42> Aren't mass dyings caused by viruses?

<comment><USER43> In this case, the most obvious explanation is the fact that they've been breathing in poisonous air (smoke) for weeks on end. Anecdotally, I've heard very little bird chirping in the past few weeks while the smoke was at its heaviest, whereas normally the birds are active all day.

</comment></comment><comment><USER44> Dead birds? Clearly, the Earth's magnetic field must be reversing!!11

[https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0298814/](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0298814/)

</comment><comment><USER45> It feels like the earth is dying. I wonder if the human population has longer than 20 years of tolerable existence left on this planet.

<comment><USER46> To paraphrase George Carlin: The planet is fine, but the people are fucked.

<comment><USER47> I think about that comment from Carlin ALL THE TIME in relationship to global warming and natural disaster. Our perspective on saving the planet is very ego and species centric. As said in Jurassic Park "Life finds a way". However that life might not include humans.

<comment><USER46> Does that mean we should just let nature take its course, or maybe be proactive about it and fix some of humanity's worst tendencies i.e. our extremely wasteful society, plastic absolutely everywhere?

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER48> So far food scarcity looks like the most plausible explanation. Someone needs to get a massive campaign together in flyover zones to get people to scatter food for them. Assuming appropriate feed for these species is even widely available in those areas.

Probably too little too late in this case though... I guess we just update the wildfire documents to include care for migratory species and hope there's a next time

<comment><USER9> I want to point out the issues of 1) commenting on areas where one doesn't have expertise 2) not recognizing that and find credible sources of information.

No offense, but even though you projected confidence I doubted you had any ornithology background. Since I didn't either, I recognized my lack of expertise and did some good faith basic research, informally speaking, to see if I could find out what the most likely explanation was.

I found a professor at Colorado St. U. with a verified account on twitter ([https://twitter.com/Kyle__Horton](https://twitter.com/Kyle__Horton)) who had retweeted [https://twitter.com/salasphorus/status/1304973069056786432](https://twitter.com/salasphorus/status/1304973069056786432). In this case the second tweet was someone with a masters in wildlife biology research with the USFW in this area.

It turns out it is food scarcity, but among insectivorous passerines (perching birds). Numerous amateur birdwatching sites that are easy to find note how hard it is to get them to your feeders _since they do not eat seeds_.

Scattering food would probably be ineffective.

It also suggests that there is a problem in a lower trophic level. We've read a lot about insect die offs. Now we seem to have a die off in migratory insectivores. Maybe it's because of fires triggering an early migration that is not timed with insect population cycles. Maybe it's not, I don't know. It seems like an area to be greatly concerned about.

<comment><USER49> Please don't cross into personal attack on HN. HN is only an internet forum. If you have better information to contribute, that's wonderful, but there's no requirement for other commenters to be specialists, or to quote specialists. Human conversation is far broader than that, and needs to be.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)

<comment><USER9> I know tone is hard online, but I never intended it a personal attack for a moment. Looking at it, I can see how it can be interpreted as condescending, though. I meant what I said: I am not a specialist, either. However, this was the top comment on this submission when I replied, and it was factually incorrect. I did not spend a long time searching for the links I cited. Dang, you understand running an online community better than I ever will, likely. What is the right call on civility vs correctness? How could I have done better here?

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER50> "Climate crisis" is starting to become the _laziest_ explanation for why anything unusual happens in this country. Are you telling me these birds never did their migration above forest fires? Tell us why it's different.

<comment><USER51> The way humans drive species to extinction is we push them right up to the very edge of it, removing 99% of their habitat and forage, and then we wait for a normal adverse event to finish the job. That these events happen from time to time does not absolve us.

<comment><USER52> Howcome we let this happen? Whoever decides to remove the last few %? Just gets away with it??</comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: What's a good Christmas present for a 13yr old who wants to learn code? - <AUTHOR> Either online resource or a nice physical present or game? <comment><USER2> For games, my first choice would be "Human Resource Machine" either from GOG ([https://www.gog.com/game/human_resource_machine](https://www.gog.com/game/human_resource_machine)) which has no DRM or from Steam. It conveys the basics of machine language programming in an offbeat yet fun way.

If he's a bit more advanced, take a look at Screeps ([https://screeps.com/](https://screeps.com/)). It's an online game that lets you write code in JavaScript to control a robot that battles other player robots. If the subscription fee or being online is an issue, there are similar games like RoboCode.

Steam has a category of programming games that you can browse as well: [https://store.steampowered.com/tags/en/Programming/](https://store.steampowered.com/tags/en/Programming/)

Some people will recommend Zachtronics games (TIS-100, Shenzhen I/O, etc.) but I do not think they're particularly good for beginner programmers. The games are puzzles dressed up as coding and, while they are fun, have little to do with how real coding is done.

<comment><USER2> Oh, how could I possibly have forgotten? While it's more of an engineering game than a programming game, Factorio ([https://www.gog.com/game/factorio](https://www.gog.com/game/factorio)) would also be an excellent choice. Getting inputs and outputs of construction materiel to flow to the right place at the right time in the right order has strong analogies to how data flows through backend services today.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> I remember that I got into coding around the age of 13. For me, the trigger was a book on C++, written for adolescents. Thinking about it in retrospective, C++ probably wasn't the best language to get started on, and yet, I devoured that book. So nowadays, beginners books on e.g. Python are probably even more appealing. I also feel that book makes a better present than an equivalent online resource, because it's something physical. Of course, such a book would still require that the 13yr old has access to a computer, in order to actually write code.

<comment><AUTHOR> I always started with books too. I wonder if he will have the attention span ;)

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> If the kid is very new to coding, I would consider one of those robots that is programmable with the visual code stacks.

If the kid is a bit ahead of his age in math, I would consider something more abstract like a Python book Python Crash Course that gives you 3 projects to work through.

I have taught my 5 year old daughter the basics of coding with Scratch 3. I am in the process of building a course of parents. This has been great as it is visual and much easier for beginners to grasp.

</comment><comment><USER5> I bought Kano Complete kits for three of the neighborhood kids, they really like them.</comment>


Let's get Trump to accept climate change - <AUTHOR> https://www.reddit.com/r/environment/comments/5byi0k/lets_get_trump_to_accept_climate_change/ <comment><USER2> Directly relevant: [http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/10/16/five-case-studies-on- po...](http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/10/16/five-case-studies-on- politicization/)</comment>


Sweden's coronavirus stoicism begins to jar - <AUTHOR> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/30/catastrophe-sweden-coronavirus-stoicism-lockdown-europe <comment><USER2> Sweden has very unique technocratic way of of running their executive branch. The cabinet and politicians are not in drivers seat in planning this response. Experts in Public Health Agency are, like the Sweden's chief epidemiologist interviewed. The cabinet mostly just executes the plan and marshals resources.

This is a good test of that system. Other Nordic countries work as good baseline to compare against. We will find out in 3-6 months what works better.

If the people can withstand the lockdown only very limited time, other Nordic countries may have jumped the gun. If Sweden is put into lockdown 2-3 weeks before the epidemic peaks, it will cut out the tip of the epidemic and save more lives.

If the society can stay in lockdown longer than expected, or other methods like lockdown with increased testing etc. works better, Swedes will die in higher ratio.</comment>


Ask HN: sort comments by time posted? - <AUTHOR>

This may be a stupid question, so be nice if it is.<p>But is there any rhyme or reason to the comment structure? It's mildly irritating to go back to a topic and have to sort between old and new comments. <comment><USER2> It's actually a good thing.

Considering that a post can hit the front page and then disappear within hours, I don't think that it is necessary to organize by time.

The most relevant comments (calculated by number of upvotes in a given period) are at the top and the spammy ones (or those that don't add anything to the conversation are the bottom).

<comment><AUTHOR> Wouldn't that lead to the top rated comments being rated even higher, while newer (but still good) comments are left by the wayside?

This would happen simply because the commenter posted outside of the time the topic was most popular (most viewers).

<comment><USER2> It's a tradeoff. Otherwise, you would have spammers commenting on all new posts.

Sometimes I do see golden comments stuck at the bottom because the poster was late to comment. It's bad but there really is no easy fix.

It's up to the community to upvote all quality comments (and submissions)...even if that means having to scroll to the bottom of the post to find great comments.

Like pretty much everything else in life, the system isn't perfect. I'm sure PG would listen if you have a better way of implementing comments.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> I think it has something to do with the number of up votes a comment has as well as the karma of the commenter perhaps.

</comment><comment><USER4> Isn't there a toolbar or something for showing unread posts? I've never tried it, but I think there is some tool some HNer created to deal with exactly this. (If so, can someone provide a link?)

<comment><USER5> This is wonderful to get back to a thread and read new comments: [https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/imeeonmdbakdmilnnc...](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/imeeonmdbakdmilnnccaddiplgjjhbog)</comment></comment>


Ask HN: What open source hex editor do you recommend? - <AUTHOR> <comment><USER2> You don't mention platform.

On Win I use HxD ([http://mh-nexus.de/en/hxd/](http://mh-nexus.de/en/hxd/)), which is freeware, but not open source. There's [https://sourceforge.net/projects/frhed/](https://sourceforge.net/projects/frhed/) which is open source, but has a few silly annoyances for me.

</comment><comment><USER3> I personally use : [http://rigaux.org/hexedit.html](http://rigaux.org/hexedit.html)

Other options can be found here: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_hex_editors](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_hex_editors)</comment>


Ex-Googlers Raise $6M for Connectifier, an AI Approach to Recruitment Search - <AUTHOR> http://techcrunch.com/2015/06/16/ex-googlers-raise-6m-for-connectifier-an-ai-approach-to-recruitment-search/

<comment><USER2> Because a company known for its dysfunctional recruiting process has a lot to share with the world. Maybe some ex-ISIS people will be the kernel of the next recruitment startup?</comment>


Why We Need a Theory for Software Engineering - <AUTHOR> http://www.ddj.com/architect/220300840

<comment><USER2> Engineers were building steam engines before there was any thermodynamics. Engineers were playing with batteries before anyone could understand why they were producing an electrical current. The theories followed and they were based on Maths. Maths is the underlying analytical tool.

There was never a 'Theory for Mechanical Engineering' or 'Electrical Engineering', why the need for a 'Theory for Software Engineering'?

Best practices develop over decades (for example in Fire Protection Engineering), as well as Management techniques to manage time and complexity.

Is the Model View Controller technique a theory? No, it is just a management technique. (It will work just fine in one long program as well).

Just hack and let the theories follow :)

<comment><USER3> _Maths is the underlying analytical tool._

But there is a mechanism for this. Maths -> Lisp/Haskell/etc -> time passes -> F# ships in Visual Studio, the most widely-used development tool on the planet.

<comment><USER2> Sure, there is a mechanism for development. It is Research & Development, that is why a 2009 BMW does not look the same like a 1969 BMW.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Is this a duplicate?

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=857283>

</comment><comment><USER5> What the hell is he talking about?

<comment><USER6> he's saying that the various processes, methods, and tools we espouse should follow from a fundamental theory of software development. Right now, the nicest thing that can be said for the various things we espouse is that they are "laws" based on empirical observation.

But we don't have an underlying theory explaining which programming languages are more productive than others, or which processes will work and which will fail. It's a lot like chemistry before the periodical table and especially before quantum mechanics. In orther words, it's alchemy.</comment></comment>


Ivory investigator killed in Kenya - <AUTHOR> http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-42943503 <comment><AUTHOR> You guys should consider donating to the International Anti-Poaching Foundation[0][1] which fights these poachers. The founder, Damien Mander[2], is an Australian ex spec-ops sniper who is using his military experience to train the park rangers since they, unlike the poachers, tend to be poorly equipped and trained as well as understaffed. There is also the David Sheldrick Wildlife Trust[3][4] which takes care of elephant and rhino orphans (most of them are orphans due to poaching). For $50 a year, you can become a sponsor of a particular animal and they'll send you photos and updates about how your sponsored animal is doing. You can for example sponsor this little fella [5][6].

[0] [http://www.iapf.org/en/](http://www.iapf.org/en/)

[1] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Anti- Poaching_Fo...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Anti- Poaching_Foundation)

[2] [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damien_Mander](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damien_Mander)

[3] [http://www.sheldrickwildlifetrust.org](http://www.sheldrickwildlifetrust.org)

[4] [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Sheldrick_Wildlife_Trust](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Sheldrick_Wildlife_Trust)

[5] [http://www.sheldrickwildlifetrust.org/asp/orphan_profile.asp...](http://www.sheldrickwildlifetrust.org/asp/orphan_profile.asp?N=318)

[6] [http://instagram.com/p/sigT3IAUKb](http://instagram.com/p/sigT3IAUKb)

<comment><USER2> How do you fight these poachers? Isn't it better instead to work to eliminate the conditions that push these people into this dangerous and illegal activity to survive?

<comment><AUTHOR> You fight them with force. Countries with strict anti-poaching enforcement have a poaching rate close to 0.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> Guardian has been tracking the death of environment defenders for some time now. Last year 197 people were killed.

[https://www.theguardian.com/environment/series/the- defenders](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/series/the-defenders)

</comment><comment><USER4> I've been thinking about this lately as I've seen a few stories about poaching recently. Last week it was about turtles in Mozambique (exotic pets in Thailand). Last year it was small dolphins in the Sea of Cortez (a casualty of the market for fish bladders as an aphrodisiac in China). There are also pangolins in Indonesia (Asian delicacy).

Try as we might to stop the poaching I really feel like the only way to solve this problem is by killing the demand. Honestly I don't know how to do this. It just seems like efforts to quell the supply side will be ultimately futile for animals that by definition wander in uninhabited areas and are open to poaching.

What's sad about this is how much of it is completely pointless (Chinese "medicine") and how when certain species get endangered, it just drives up the value and makes them even more of a status symbol.

Sometimes it feels like we're heading towards (or are already in) a mass extinction event where we'll be the likely biggest victims.

<comment><USER5> One group darts rhinos and injects the horn with a dye, rendering the horn worthless for poaching.

The U.S. TV series "Gorongosa Park: a Rebirth"[0] shows park stewards trying to rebuild tourism, with one goal being better employment options (as guides, rangers, etc.) than poaching.

Some of their elephants don't develop tusks at all, an apparent mutation that increases survival odds.

[0] [http://www.pbs.org/gorongosa/home/](http://www.pbs.org/gorongosa/home/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> \- capitalism, inequality and desperation... A toxic combination.

<comment><USER7> This is less about capitalism more about status-seeking.

<comment><USER2> I think he was referring to the poor economic conditions of the poachers, and how they are pushed to this line of work. Not dissimilar to drug dealers in inner city USA.

<comment><USER7> This is definitely true, though many of the big-time poachers are foreigners. A key mechanism that's been shown to reduce poaching is to let the local people derive an economic gain from the animals without killing or maiming them. Like safaris or photo shoots, etc.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> I hope it's not off topic: anybody who wants find out more about ivory trade in an easy way, there is a movie documentary: The Ivory Game (2016) [https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5952266](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5952266)

</comment><comment><USER9> Tragic death, but sounds potentially unrelated to his ivory work.

Aren't there startups working on producing fake ivory? Especially with animal products (meat, skins, bone, etc.) flooding the market with ethically man-made products seems far healthier to people and animals in the long run.

<comment><AUTHOR> Fake ivory wont help as there will be a premium for the real stuff. What you really need to do is make ivory seem very uncool.

<comment><USER9> I'm not sure. With rare things, you only need a few people willing to pay ridiculous prices for the behavior to continue. And the more rare it becomes, the more coveted as well by people who can look beyond the moral implications of killing elephants.

But, if kids in China start wearing fake ivory necklaces to school and can buy them for a few bucks, why would you pay thousands more for something that is virtually indistinguishable? The trick is to make it so close to actually ivory (or genetically grown to be identical). If it looks like a bad knock off it won't work.

<comment><AUTHOR> It's not as clear cut. Luxury items have strange economic behavior but let's say that the a govt banned sales of Ferraris overnight. Would rich people go to great lengths to buy Ferraris or would they buy Lamborghinis?</comment></comment></comment></comment>