Ask HN:On Hackers and Aesthetics - <AUTHOR>

How useful is a knowledge of Design (Aesthetics) for a Software Engineer? Both as a Startup Founder and as part of larger firms? It is common knowledge at my university that people in engineering fields who lack communicative skills and/or design skills are at a disadvantage, how correct is this statement in your experience? <comment><USER2> An aesthetic sense takes a while to develop, it's one of those 10,000 hour skills. Many designers never really get it, just as many working programmers are not "hackers."

That said it might be useful to check out good art and design inspiration sites, might help you tell apart the good from the bad and mediocre. You might see the difference with some beginners luck.

There are a lot of "design blogs" that mimic smashing magazine and post ugly stuff. Sometimes ugly stuff gets popular. Smashing magazine itself often posts aesthetically mediocre content.

The trick might be to look at sites that always post top notch stuff and have designer friends tell you what's pretty and not.

Sites like:

<http://surfstation.com/> <http://butdoesitfloat.com/> <http://www.designiskinky.net/> <http://spacecollective.org/gallery/>

post aesthetically flawless stuff. When you agree with their selection, you are an aesthetically proficient designer/artist.

Keep in mind that aesthetics and design are not the same. Good design might need to be ugly. Google search results are closer to ugly. Aesthetically obsessed designers would get rid of the underlines, add more white space, etc.. But Google's purpose is to let you skim results quickly, not to impress you with how pretty it is.

<http://siteinspire.net/> is a good resource for aesthetically pleasing UIs, but some of them have poor usability.

As a startup founder you should probably be more concerned with UI/UX, "design" in the sense of accomplishing goals or conversions, not necessarily aesthetics. I haven't seen many startups with top notch aesthetics in UIs, so hard to say how that converts. If you're in a large company and see something ugly that's supposed to be pretty, it's a sign, just like bad code is.

</comment><comment><USER3> Just throwing my two cents here: I think it is more useful for the startup founder role, because some knowledge of design lets you better decide which designer to hire, and also, in the beginning, you will probably be doing a lot of the design decisions yourself. For working in a larger company -- I doubt it would be as useful. I would recommend learning some regardless; knowledge is power as someone said.

</comment><comment><USER4> a</comment>


FreeBSD on a MacBook Pro - <AUTHOR> https://gist.github.com/mpasternacki/974e29d1e3865e940c53 <comment><USER2> > Six years later, it less and less "Just Works", started turning into spyware > and nagware, and doesn't need much less maintenance than Linux desktop — at > least for my work, which is system administration and software development, > probably it is better for the mythical End User person. Work needed to get > software I need running is not less obscure than work I'd need to do on > Linux or othe Unix-like system.... GUI that used to be nice and unintrusive, > got annoying. Either I came full circle in the last 15 years of my computer > usage, or the OSX experience degraded in last 5 years.

So... it's not just me. Somewhere between Snow Leopard and Mavericks I started finding building various things from source that never were a problem became an exercise in figuring out what library had been removed or moved or what Apple had done with lib/header paths or something else.

If people aren't going over to another unix, what are they doing? Homebrew? Container-ing or virtualizing another unix? Or just suffering?

<comment><USER3> Homebrew and a Vagrant managed Linux VM depending on the situation. I'm seriously considering moving to Linux next time I'm switching my work laptop.

<comment><USER4> Did this at work, haven't looked back since. Having first class package management support is something I never want to live without again. I still use a lot of virtual machines, but mostly to keep different projects separated.

By the way, is it just me or have the vms better disk performance but slower graphics in Linux?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Some months ago I got FreeBSD running in a Macbook Air, and surprisingly the UEFI boot worked out of the box. I say surprisingly because when I tried, the Linux efiboot didn't work, the only way to boot linux was through GRUB.

I had almost everything working (Audio, suspend on close, i3 or gnome) but never got the wifi to work, I even tethered from my android phone to the Macbook and it worked very good. But in the end it was to annoying to do often. If only FreeBSD supported that wireless chip, I'd be writing this on FreeBSD. When the wayland and updated intel drivers come to FreeBSD maybe i'll try it again, but wifi is a deal breaker.

I always wondered why there isn't wifi drivers for this macbook in FreeBSD if Fedora had them (and AFAIK Fedora only ships open drivers)

<comment><USER6> ever considered using a supported wifi usb?

<comment><USER5> I didn't like the idea of permanently losing 1 of the only 2 usb ports, although when connecting android tethering I lost one still. I wanted a solution that would allow me to have internet and also be able to connect a mouse and a usb drive.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> I'm author of that gist (just noticed I have some comments there I need to reply to), still running the setup, now with FreeBSD 12-CURRENT. Tl;dr it generally works, still no wi-fi support. X works fine (running with drm- next-4.7 patches to get external thunderbolt display to work; vanilla kernel works fine with built-in and DVI display, gets confused by Thunderbolt display only). Gave up on pkg because I want to control my build flags, I'm using portmaster now and thinking about setting up poudriere on a bigger server. Feel free to ask if you have any particular questions.

<comment><USER8> Give [https://github.com/jrmarino/synth](https://github.com/jrmarino/synth) a whirl.

<comment><USER7> Looks nice, thanks!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> This tutorial is about FreeBSD 11-CURRENT snapshot 20150111 (pre-release version), so it deals in act II with hybrid UFS/ZFS setup, but FreeBSD 11.0-RELEASE supports root-on-ZFS-in-UEFI-mode via standard installer. Release version of boot1.efi loader fully supports ZFS, so small UFS boot partition is no longer needed, and things are much simpler now.

<comment><USER7> It doesn't work yet with GELI as far as I know, so for encrypted root /boot still needs to be on a separate partition. There was some work to support encrypted /boot, I'm not sure where it stands now, but I'd be very surprised if it supported encrypted ZFS.

<comment><USER10> Yeah, I've not tried going to 11x yet as I'm not sure I can be bothered trying to deal with replacing the non-geli 'bootpool' I have on 10.x.. Sounds like a tricky process.

I'll probably just rebuild it instead of trying to upgrade.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> I really want to try this out. I was a heavy FreeBSD user for many years in the 2000s, and I drifted back into Linux. One thing I will say for FreeBSD, it's harder to get dialed in but once it is, it's very solid. I think with enough tinkering FreeBSD would run really well on a MBP, I just wonder if it would provide a lot of advantages over OSX to make it worth the time.

<comment><USER12> Random question for you, how does the shell experience on FreeBSD compare to MacOS? Linux?

<comment><USER13> A shell is a shell for the most part. The details can be a bit different (like your $PATH), but otherwise its largely the same.

<comment><USER12> try

       rm -rf somedir/

vs

       rm somedir/ -rf

Linux (the former) allows me to be lazy while MacOS (the latter) forces me to hit crtl-a and insert -rf.

<comment><USER14> GNU rm (coreutils) vs BSD rm.

<comment><USER15> I will never get used to the trailing slash on source arguments in BSD cp (that copies directory contents rather than the directory itself)! The first thing I do on an OS X machine is install GNU coreutils.

<comment><USER16> I'm used to that from rsync. I find it quite handy.

<comment><USER14> This may be why I never found rsync comfortable.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> I'm using FreeBSD on Lenovo X220, and while it's obviously no MacBook, everything important to me (wifi, suspend-to-ram, graphic support, long battery usage, HDMI out) just worked out of the box (apart from the initial install, which wasn't FreeBSD's but Lenovo's fault and is since being worked around in recent FreeBSD installers). I can really recommend it if you want to give FreeBSD a try on a Laptop.

<comment><USER17> ps: make sure you get a wifi card that is supported by FreeBSD. While you can put in a supported one, the X220 won't boot because Lenovo put a Wifi card whitelist into the BIOS and you need to install a patched BIOS from a dubious source.

<comment><USER18> Why in Richard Stallman's name would you buy a Lenovo?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> "using a custom [FreeBSD] kernel seems tricky in a VMWare/VirtualBox VM"

This flipped a set-once bit, making the rest of the article essentially unreadable due to zero confidence in the writer's technical skill. Also, the lack of "late 2011" in the title makes it pretty misleading.

<comment><USER20> Couldn't you just have said, "this guy doesn't know what he's talking about", like a normal person?

That was hard to parse.

<comment><USER21> This is what I think whenever anyone says "an order of magnitude" instead of "very".

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> I'm periodically installing FreeBSD on my ThinkPad T400 to see how it's performing with Chromium. It's the only application I use extensively, and the only one that performs really bad with FreeBSD (and OpenBSD also), which prevents me from switching from Fedora.

Is there any magic I'm missing, aside from the shared memory support?

<comment><USER23> It performs fine on my X240 without doing anything.

</comment></comment><comment><USER24> My experience with FreeBSD is limited to a fugacious week with apparent quixotism and my noble Raspberry-Pi2, which ended inimically. All seemed rigorously dandy until presumably, Chuck Norris imposed thereafter some wicked temporal augmentation between all moments between any character typed or program otherwise compiled, offering only a typographic respite or scintillating scroll of never-ending techno-glossolalia in his wake whilst I sat there hour after hour (or character after character) awaiting something that made sense. Having no visible recourse, I capitulated and returned to Rasbpian.

With my compulsive - but hitherto compromised - aversion to running Linux within the virtual-machine of Systemd, I have ever-since intended to try again, maybe with a Pi3 and/or laptop, or even Mac. I've wangled Debian on a Macbook, but would, considering circumstances, prefer FreeBSD. I hope there is promise here. I praise all efforts.

<comment><USER23> That's odd. Are you using HDMI or the serial console?

My Raspberry Pi 2 runs FreeBSD very well. Currently running OpenNTPD + Monit + Postgres + Node-RED + go-carbon + graphite-api + Grafana + Syncthing + Transmission — all of this with only 249 MB of RAM used. FreeBSD's memory management is excellent.

RPi 3 (native AArch64 mode) support is in progress [https://wiki.freebsd.org/arm64/rpi3](https://wiki.freebsd.org/arm64/rpi3) for now it runs only on one CPU core, SMP is "actively being worked on".

<comment><USER24> >Are you using HDMI

I _was_ using HDMI. As mentioned, I've since returned to Raspbian, where I continue to use HDMI and all works generally well. I was initially thrilled after installing FreeBSD, but for whatever reason, things changed. I remember compiling vim for a whole day before cancelling it. I could type an entire sentence or paragraph before any input would show. Bad luck perhaps. My primary use for the Pi is a surveillance camera, so I temporarily abandoned BSD for what I know works. I intend to make my next main system a BSD system. Presently I am running Debian Testing, which has been quite excellent, but as also mentioned, I am bothered by Systemd and aspire to be free of it.

<comment><USER23> HDMI works fine for me, it's really, really weird that it didn't for you.

Compiling anything on ARM is horribly slow, cross-compiling from amd64 is a much better idea.

But you don't need to compile vim, there are binary packages for ARM! [http://pkg.freebsd.org/FreeBSD:12:armv6/latest/](http://pkg.freebsd.org/FreeBSD:12:armv6/latest/) pkg should just work.

<comment><USER24> Pardon my ignorance; but what would HDMI have to do with the issues I've noted? In Raspbian, the Pi is a champion, minus some USB issues. Why would HDMI be any different in BSD? Why would HDMI cause lag or infinite compiling? Also, thanks for your replies. Amidst the onslaught of downvotes, I nearly committed YC-Seppuku in shame. Also-also, with a bit of irony, after I'd expressed my satisfaction with Debian Testing (after two happy years), this very night "apt-get dist-upgrade" wanted to remove everything "X", e.g. xorg _, xserver_ , etc., and iptables too. These are the less pleasant moments of Testing. Pretty much annihilated my laptop, removing synaptic input drivers and every other useful thing it could sabotage. Nothing single-user mode can't surmount, but man, what timing. Happens about once/twice per year.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> > back then I grew tired of Linux desktop (which is going to be MASSIVE NEXT > YEAR, at least since 2001)

The snark was really unnecessary.

<comment> Ar-Curunir I agree, I've been running Arch Linux on my MBP Retina for 2+ years now almost without problems. I bet if the OP tried Linux, they'd be absolutely fine.

<comment><USER26> how is battery life?

does close-lid-to-sleep and open-lid-to-wake work?

<comment><USER27> I've been running Arch on a Dell Chromebook and battery life and sleep/wake are essentially the same as with ChromeOS from what I've seen so far. Awesome experience.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER28> plz keep posting and upvoting these kinds of stories (foss on hardware), great read.

</comment><comment><USER29> That was anticlimactic

</comment><comment><USER30> so far so good, pretty detailed too

some might care images / screenshot, not me tho :D

</comment><comment><USER31> stunts for stunts' sake

<comment><USER32> That's how a lot of great projects got started.</comment></comment>


Big Teams - Barriers to Innovation? - <AUTHOR> http://quantumleadersblog.com/2008/03/25/big-teams-barriers-to-innovation/

<comment><USER2> Good design is about choosing which features NOT to implement. This process lends itself very badly to large groups since everyone will want to implement their pet peevee and eventually the design will end up cluttered and inconsistent.

In an ideal world a product will be designed by one person. Preferably Philip Starck or Jonathan Ive.</comment>


UK porn filter to also block "extremist narrative"? - <AUTHOR> http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201314/cmhansrd/cm131023/debtext/131023-0001.htm

<comment><USER2> What is this? The second post in short order making up stuff about Camerons statements about blocking.

I detest Cameron, but nobody is served by making up stuff like this - there's more than enough objectionable stuff in _actual_ quotes from him.

The only mention of "extremist narrative" says this:

> The Prime Minister: We have put in place some of the toughest controls that > one can possibly have within a democratic Government, and the TPIMs are > obviously one part of that. We have had repeated meetings of the extremism > task force—it met again yesterday—setting out a whole series of steps that > we will take to counter the extremist narrative, including by blocking > online sites. Now that I have the opportunity, let me praise Facebook for > yesterday reversing the decision it took about the showing of beheading > videos online. We will take all these steps and many more to keep our > country safe.

It does not anywhere indicates that the much heralded (and vastly overdramatised) porn filter has any role in this.

It is possible Cameron is up to something. It is also possible he is talking about going to court and getting a court order to take down specific sites. And quite likely, that, much like his "porn filter", it is a bunch of hot air.

<comment><USER3> _We have put in place some of the toughest controls that one can possibly have within a democratic Government_

When the fuck did I have a say in that?

Democracy my fucking arse. Plutocracy more like.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Important note for readers from the US: while the UK has a legal right to free speech (via the Human Rights Act, which in turn is based on the EU Convention on Human Rights), it is diluted by opt-out provisions for public health and safety, and undermined by other laws: notably the Obscene Publications Act (1958) -- although enforcement of the OPA against works of written fiction has collapsed in the past two decades -- and other anti-terrorism statutes which make it an offense to be "in possession of material likely to be of use in the commission of acts of terrorism" (or, more nebulously, inciting acts of terrorism).

Suppressing political discourse (even extremist political discourse) and using an anti-porn filter to do so is of course a horrible precedent to allow, but it's important to bear in mind that the UK has no equivalent of the solid US first amendment right to free speech.

<comment><USER5> I wonder, how powerful is the 1st amendment in the US exactly? How does it deal with situations like libel, bullying, calls to murder etc... ?

<comment><USER6> I know for slander, in the USA you're allowed to say pretty much anything as long as it's true. The UK has much stricter laws against defamation. (In the US, the victim might sue for damages, but that's not the same as criminal charges.)

<comment><USER7> Even in the UK the truth is a valid defense against a libel case. The main difference is that the burden of proof is put on the alleged libeller, who has to prove s/he hasn't committed libel, rather than on the person who has supposedly been libelled.

<comment><USER8> IIRC the US requires that you prove the libeller knew it was false as well.

Basically if you act on good faith you are clear, even it isn't true. (Note that there are requirements that you took some measures to verify the legitimacy depending on your position).

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> I instinctively reached for the 'share' button. Glad I read TFA just before I shared this, because there is no way the source says that Cameron's Net Nanny is being used to block extremist sites. All it says is that extremist sites have been taken down. That's not good, nor is it necessarily better, but let's at least be accurate, rather than try to spin this.

<comment><USER10> Cameron specifically says "blocking online sites." While he doesn't mention the technical specifics of how that will be done, the traditional way of achieving this in the UK is through the filters originally put in place for blocking websites associated with child abuse.

<comment><USER2> > While he doesn't mention the technical specifics of how that was done

He has not claimed any sites _have_ been blocked. Nor is he exactly famed for his technical accuracy. See the discussions about the porn filter, where the entire opt-in/opt-out thing was a massive farce from one end to the other, as they decided to blatantly misrepresent the whole thing as worse than what they'd actually agreed with the ISPs.

In this case he answered a question in prime ministers questions in an non- specific ways that leaves him free to do nothing. Or he could do as the title claims. But as it stands, the title is completely made up.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> Cameron was answering in response to the following question

> __Paul Goggins (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab) __: Two weeks ago, the head > of the Security Service warned about the extent of Islamist extremism. This > week, two individuals have been charged with serious terrorist offences. > What is the Prime Minister going to do in January when, as a result of his > Government's legislation, some of those whom the Home Secretary has judged > to pose the greatest threat to our security are released from the provisions > of their terrorism prevention and investigation measures?

> __The Prime Minister __: We have put in place some of the toughest controls > that one can possibly have within a democratic Government, and the TPIMs are > obviously one part of that. We have had repeated meetings of the extremism > task force—it met again yesterday—setting out a whole series of steps that > we will take to counter the extremist narrative, including by blocking > online sites. Now that I have the opportunity, let me praise Facebook for > yesterday reversing the decision it took about the showing of beheading > videos online. We will take all these steps and many more to keep our > country safe.

Because of the nature of Prime Minister's Questions, it can't be concluded that this is going to become legislation. It shouldn't be a surprise that the government wants to do, or is talking about doing this.

<comment><USER12> This. PMQs are basically a political dick-waving contest/circle jerk (depending on who is asking the question).

<comment><USER13> If you want a particularly nauseating example of the latter phenomenon, look at the question Cameron was asked immediately after the "Islamic extremism" question...

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> Just another great example of the fact that if you let them build a machine that _can_ limit speech, it will inevitably be used to limit _your_ speech given enough time.

</comment><comment><USER15> ...and the definition of "extremist" is defined by...? (And of course, it will eventually include "anyone opposed to the Great Firewall of Chi^H^H^H^H Britain, as its own continued existence becomes the main purpose of such tools)

<comment><USER16> This may provide some context: [http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2020382/You- entering...](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2020382/You-entering- Sharia-law-Britain-As-Islamic-extremists-declare-Sharia-law-zone-London- suburb-worrying-social-moral-implications.html) (apologies for linking to dailymail, I couldn't find a better article about it).

With events like this you can understand where the ideas of blocking extremism come from.

<comment><USER15> Still doesn't make it a good idea. Worse, it's "let's become a police state to avoid becoming a (different kind of) police state"

<comment><USER16> Not saying it is a good idea - just wanted to provide a local context for extremism that a lot of people would likely appreciate having blocked.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> Killing the free internet will not stop extremists, it will just obstruct tech innovation and cost the UK economy, in terms of job opportunities and wealth creation.

</comment><comment><USER18> And so it has begin, the great firewall of the UK

<comment><USER19> Hadrian's Firewall?

<comment><USER20> Cameron's Cameronian Wall.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> Are there any technical details as to how this is going to be achieved yet? Things like pirate bay are supposed to be blocked by ISPs but you can access it just fine if you're using Google DNS.

<comment><USER22> Not with BT!

      MBP:~ matt$ nslookup piratebay.sx
      Server:		220.127.116.11
      Address:	188.8.131.52#53

      Non-authoritative answer:
      Name:	piratebay.sx
      Address: 126.96.36.199

      MBP:~ matt$ curl -H "Host: piratebay.sx" 22.214.171.124
      <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//IETF//DTD HTML 2.0//EN">

      <title>Message</title>

 Error – Site blocked

<comment><USER21> I'm on BT too - pirateproxy didn't work until I changed to Google DNS:

nslookup pirateproxy.net Server: google-public-dns-a.google.com Address: 22.214.171.124

Non-authoritative answer: Name: pirateproxy.net Addresses: 184.108.40.206 184.108.40.206 220.127.116.11

Having said that, piratebay.sx says blocked regardless what I use.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> First they come for the porn, etc.

</comment><comment><USER24> Speaking out against this initiative shows that you are an extremist who should be blocked.

</comment><comment><USER25> The government should just provide software for filtering. Not shit registry that keeps track of who has the filter on or off with the ISP.

This is the first step.

</comment><comment><USER26> so is this thing really happening to the UK? What is the happening to the UK and US?

If both countries don't take a more liberal stance towards technology/society, I believe that by 2050 the Angloxosaxon empire will be history.

</comment><comment><USER27> Caution: Slippery slope

</comment><comment><USER28> So it begins...</comment>


Show HN: myfaves.fm – A flat-ui music player built with Meteor - <AUTHOR> http://myfaves.fm I recently launched my side project I've been building with Meteor js over the past few months.
It uses the Soundcloud, Hypemachine, and exfm public APIs to pull in your 'favorite' tracks from each of your usernames provided. It's gives you a unified playlist of all your favorite tracks across the different sites.
Audio is being played using the HTML5 Audio API, so it currently only works in Chrome and Safari.
Built with:
* Meteor JS – http://Meteor.com
* Bourbon Sass Mixin Library – http://bourbon.io
* Spin.js – http://fgnass.github.io/spin.js/
* Moment.js – http://momentjs.com/
* RSVP.js – https://github.com/tildeio/rsvp.js — Reply <comment><AUTHOR> I recently launched my side project I've been building with Meteor js over the past few months.

It uses the Soundcloud, Hypemachine, and exfm public APIs to pull in your 'favorite' tracks from each of your usernames provided. It's gives you a unified playlist of all your favorite tracks across the different sites.

Audio is being played using the HTML5 Audio API, which currently only works in webkit browsers (Chrome & Safari).

Built with:

* Meteor JS – [http://Meteor.com](http://Meteor.com)

* Bourbon Sass Mixin Library – [http://bourbon.io](http://bourbon.io)

* Spin.js – [http://fgnass.github.io/spin.js/](http://fgnass.github.io/spin.js/)

* Moment.js – [http://momentjs.com/](http://momentjs.com/)

* RSVP.js – [https://github.com/tildeio/rsvp.js](https://github.com/tildeio/rsvp.js)

<comment><AUTHOR> Use your own username(s), or Demo the app with these usernames:

Exfm: plapier

Hypem: phillapier

Soundcloud: phil-lapier

</comment></comment><comment><USER2> This is great - very simple. I have a few suggestions though:

* I hit your landing page, and froze, because I had no idea what to type in or what it really does. My thought process was roughly "Oh, do I need a soundcloud account? Maybe I'll just close this..."

* I didn't know how to easily make it go. Add a "just play some music" button that fills in one of the fields with a username and takes me straight to the music and plays a random one, to give me an idea of what this thing does.

* The suggestion of keyboard shortcuts at bottom left was really subtle and easy to miss

* Would be nice to have a volume control

* Would be nice to have a link on the song that goes to the SoundCloud page for an item.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for the feedback. I added a way to just jump to the playlist with some predefined usernames, thanks for the suggestion :)

<comment><USER2> Awesome, works like a charm.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> Cool and works well -- one comment: while the spacebar functions properly as play/pause, in the legend at the bottom left it's perpetually showing the "pause" icon where I'd expect it to update based on whether you're playing or paused.

Chrome/Windows</comment>


Foursquare detects decrease in foot traffic to Trump properties - <AUTHOR> https://medium.com/foursquare-direct/how-the-trump-presidential-campaign-is-affecting-trump-businesses-c343178e3c03 <comment><USER2> I wonder how the data looks when presented along side Foursquare/Swarm active users.

Can't think of anyone I know that's used either in ages now. The appeal wore off a while ago.</comment>


IaaS vs. PaaS: what we've learned - <AUTHOR> https://www.madetech.com/news/iaas-vs-paas-what-weve-learned <comment><USER2> "PaaS can offer significant agility in your ability to launch and manage new applications. Even if you're under good configuration management within your IaaS fleet, PaaS is likely to deliver you a runtime environment in a fraction of the time", [http://www.cloudways.com/en/](http://www.cloudways.com/en/) is one of the finest examples of PaaS built on IaaS.</comment>


Keeping and Recruiting Hackers as a Non-Hacker - <AUTHOR>

We've heard a lot from hackers with a lot of anger or derision towards non hackers with business plans.  I happen to be a non-hacker who has recruited one dev to do my database and web design.  I am seeking one more hacker to do the iPhone portion of my project.
So, you can imagine how horrified I was to read all the people who are just dripping with contempt for people like me.  I would like advice on recruiting a hacker and keeping my hackers happy.  For hackers who have had successful startups with non-hacking partners, what worked?  Rather then hearing about how bad and infuriating these relationships are, I would like to hear a different perspective about how they can work well from a basis of mutual respect.  If you had a bad hacker-nonhacker partnership, how could the non-hacking partner have done better?
Also, how can I refine my approach when approaching and recruiting a hacker? <comment><USER2> I think the most important things, generally, are that everyone is able to bring something to the table, everyone knows what everyone else is bringing to the table, and everyone is rewarded in some reasonable proportion for what they bring to the table.

Mutual respect is a very important ingredient, and the best way for the business-oriented individual to win respect from the hacker is to prove that what he brings to the table has value. Part of this is educating the hacker on why your assets are valuable.

What drives us crazy about the stereotype that you see discussed here is the perception that all or most of the value will be brought to the table by the hacker, while most of the reward will be accrued by the other guy. Emails like "I have an idea and a business plan all worked out, I just need a hacker" are translated as "I want to pay you to build something that will glorify and enrich me". You want to instead say something that will be translated as "I need a partner with complimentary skills to my own so that we may achieve _______ together!" and insert "glory and wealth" or "social change" or "a solution to X problem", or whatever floats your boat.

So, you ask, what's something I could bring to the table that hackers would find valuable? Characterize it this way: all the things hackers don't want to do but must be done to run a business. Law expertise, especially in taxes and intellectual property rights, is extremely valuable. Expertise and experience in dealing with state and federal regulators is another valuable asset. You need something specific to point to that can be "valuated" in some qualitative way (quantitative is even better).

A business plan does not carry any value, unless you can point to specific things in that plan that will help you achieve success (i.e., if evidence of the valuable things I listed above are in the business plan, then maybe your approach should be "read my business plan from the perspective of a partner. I'd like your feedback"). Any doofus can write out some pages explaining what they want to do and hand-wave about how it's going to happen. It takes someone with skill and good judgement to write a plan that references market data (perhaps even with results of hiring a market research firm), a viable marketing strategy with a rationale based on data, a strategy for growth made on reasonable assumptions that should be based on data, leads on funding, leads on talent recruiting, relevant legal issues and proposals for dealing with them, etc, etc, etc.

Perhaps you don't have the skill to do even that. Then prove that you have the connections and funding to assemble the team that does have the skills needed to make your venture happen.

Hopefully this helps. I could go on, but this is already a long post.

<comment><AUTHOR> Very helpful. In our case, our company exists to solve a problem. The problem is a combination of a medical and design problem. (I don't want to give away anything). Before I found a hacker, I did a lot of the design work, and have been accruing medical information on my project for months.

Our strategy is for the hackers to create a demo and backend to achieve my design objectives while I flesh out the rest of the medical research.

Armed with a demo and medical research, I will be able to prove to potential partners and angels that there is a big medical problem, that design can solve it, that much research, when considered together, provides a picture of haw to solve the problem, and that I solved it. Then I will find a partner for business aspects and look for funding.

One thing I'm definitely not doing is trying to get fat on the work of others. I don't want to say that I don't care about money, but my motivation is entirely solving this problem. I need hackers who want to be partners and are excited to grow a company they have a good stake in.

Thanks for typing so much, it's very helpful and constructive.

<comment><USER2> At the risk of sounding too critical (which isn't the point), allow me to help you hear yourself:

      Our strategy is for the hackers to create a demo and
      backend to achieve my design objectives while I flesh out
      the rest of the medical research.

This is exactly the kind of thing I want to warn you against. If the hackers are your _partners_ (as they should be), then "my" design has to become "our" design. Invite your hackers to make suggestions and tweak your design. Have a whiteboard fight (what's better than a whiteboard fight?). Take their suggestions seriously, and if you disagree, don't be dismissive: try to convince them why they're wrong; get buy-in. If you can't get buy-in, then either your design is broken, or these aren't the hackers you're looking for. Then once you're all on the same page, turn them loose on the implementation while you get busy with your medical research. To my mind, that is a better way to divide labor without losing the sense of partnership.

      Armed with a demo and medical research, I will be able to
      prove to potential partners and angels that there is a
      big medical problem, that design can solve it, that much
      research, when considered together, provides a picture of
      haw to solve the problem, and that I solved it. Then I
      will find a partner for business aspects and look for
      funding.

This sounds great!...except, make _...that I solved it..._ into _...that our team solved it..._ \- because once you take on partners, you're _partners_. Founders really have to be able to swallow some pride and share ownership to keep everyone on board. You may be the leader, but especially at this stage, being the leader shouldn't mean a whole lot other than a job description.

Even in your language you have to be careful about the messages you're sending to your partners to make sure that they are, indeed, _partners_. When you take on _partners_ , your vision has to become _their_ vision, and you have to be willing to let your vision evolve with new blood and new ideas (obviously, you don't want to loose the essence of the business...)

Consider the result of a subtle change in language:

      Armed with a demo and medical research, I will be able to
      prove to potential partners and angels that there is a
      big medical problem, that design can solve it, that much
      research, when considered together, provides a picture of
      haw to solve the problem, and that our team solved it.
      Then I will find a partner for business aspects and look
      for funding.

This is much better, because it's evident that your hackers are your _partners_ , and that the things you're doing for the venture are valuable (performing a demo, persuade partners and angels, find funding, find the additional talent you need, and medical research skills).

Again, I hope you find this helpful. This is all stuff I've been reflecting on a lot lately, so it just comes pouring out of my head through my fingertips.

<comment><USER3> Oh man...you hit the nail on the head.

I made the mistake of joining a small company where the founder did the exact opposite of everything you have described: the product was _his_ , the plan was _his_ , and the design meetings inevitably degenerated into lectures on why we (his employees) didn't understand the market we were in, and therefore weren't qualified to do anything but follow his guidance. There were certainly no whiteboard sessions (after all, why would you need a whiteboard, when you can just describe what's going to happen using a powerpoint presentation?)

The result was terrible morale, and a bad product. Where we _should_ have been reacting to the demands of the market that we were in, we were plodding along a pre-determined path to failure, without the ability to change strategy or tactic.

As a result, I now have a well-developed filter for people who have this tendency, and I avoid them like the plague. Comments like _"I'll flesh out the design"_ immediately send me running.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> _you can imagine how horrified I was to read all the people who are just dripping with contempt for people like me_

Don't take it personally. It's a reaction against a tendency in the industry to undervalue hackers and treat them as interchangeable drones. Because good hackers are rare and what they do is incredibly creative, this tendency can't last, so eventually it (and the emotional reaction against it) will pass. (Some of it's also just immaturity. Also some programmers are themselves arrogant - avoid these. Everything we're saying about respect cuts both ways. Besides, they're usually not very good.)

Pay attention to the comments here (aggieben's replies to your questions are worth their weight in gold) and change your thinking accordingly, and you'll be in a better position.

Speaking for myself, what I would want is: a significant share of ownership; an interesting and challenging problem; freedom to work in the best way I know (including freedom to choose my tools and find the best designs); full participation in important decisions; complete mutual respect; the feeling that it is fun to work together (this is a chemistry thing that has nothing to do with stupid motivational tricks); the kind of team where everybody puts their ideas on the table and hammers at them until the best one is agreed on, and nobody cares (or even remembers) who contributed what.

It absolutely has to be "we". I would always give credit to the person with the original idea and expertise (you, in this case), but if I ever felt I was working _for_ that person or that they regarded me as "their" hacker, it would gnaw at me until it ruined my feeling about the thing. It's hard to explain how deeply this goes. I don't want higher status than anybody else; conversely the thought of being pegged at a lower status is intolerable, partly because it's degrading but more importantly because such structures _inhibit creativity_ and that is what I care about most.

</comment><comment><USER5> As a non-hacker on a team with two exceptional hackers, I would recommend the following startup advice:

1) DO have incentives that reflect contribution- all of us have equity split evenly, everyone brings something to the table; these guys will later also help determine the direction of future hires (and I trust their abilities to do so)

2) DO be more open than usual- the difference between bullies and real partners is being able to include everyone in the process, it makes everyone feel like they're working toward the goal. Definitely make sure that you're adding value and let others know of what you're doing and say why. Include people in meetings if they want, usually, your biz dev meeting are so boring that your partners don't want to sit in (they want to be there for the decision, but not for the meetings before it).

3) DO NOT micromanage- I think Sam Altman said this in an interview that the greatest startups are where you have a bunch of people doing amazing things all at the same time and they're driving to a goal. Definitely set milestones for each other, but do not question when your hacker takes time off to play Guitar Hero

4) DO make it about the company- You're building a company and that's the bigger goal, it's not about you, it's about the company. So, stick to milestones, stick to atomic goals, and go hard down the path to victory.

5) DO make the environment easier to hack- Your job is to get a product out, so that includes some management and creativity, while also doing the other tasks that distract (biz dev, etc.)

6) DO learn to hack yourself (not for the business, but for yourself)- I'm learning Python and it gives you a better perspective of what your hacker partners are doing. Don't hack for your business, choose some problems that you want to tackle yourself and do those on the side.

As to hacker recruitment, hire slow and make sure that person can work with your folks. It's all about that culture, so it starts with the list above and making a hacker-friendly culture. It's no surprise that Google and Facebook are obsessive about that.

</comment><comment><USER6> The hard part (unsolved as far as I know) is for a non-hacker to find good hackers. But assuming you can, the key to hiring and keeping them would be to give them freedom to work the way they want to, including letting them have their way if they feel strongly about design decisions. Since we've assumed you've got good hackers, their design choices will tend to be right, so this is a safe move.

<comment><USER7> what about the Auctomatic guys?

<comment><USER5> They also did try to learn and hack:

<http://blog.harjtaggar.com/?p=37>

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Great question (and approach). I'm _kinda_ a non-hacker (started as a designer, now do a bit of front-end coding, etc).

The mutual respect thing (as aggieben says) is huge. The best way to approach this is to put in the line what you're going to do. How are you going to contibute AT LEAST your fair share in the early stages of the project. Not "When we're ready to talk to VCs, I'm the guy!" or "I'll talk to lawyers so you don't have to!", but "Here's the stuff I'm going to do EVERY DAY while you code."

Hopefully you have a good story to tell there. I've found that most people (who aren't hackers or designers) really DON'T, when it comes right down to it... But every business is different.

If you can't commit an equal share of the work (which is likely-- project management is not a fulltime job for a team of 2-3-- and it's honestly a burden for good hackers on teams of this size), then put something else on the line. Money is a good start.

If you don't have money and you don't have "buidling" skills, then I'm hard- pressed to understand how you could motivate "builders", other than the promise of "If you guys manage to build something great, I'll help make it successful".

The big problem is that it's hard to build something great (which is why a lot of people advocate for bring in biz ppl when and if you manage to pull that off).

</comment><comment><USER9> Sounds like you definitely are bringing something to the table. Emphasize your demo and domain knowledge (from other comments:

"Once our demo is working, we will decide together how to go forward, but I probably will be focused on design and medical aspects"

"A large aspect of our company will include components like creating a medical protocol, clinical trials and medical demographics"

Also, as CEO you probably have the final say on decisions, so _make sure you make smart decisions_. In order to make smart decisions, you need to know the costs and consequences of technical decisions, and you need the hacker to give you these.

You need to have enough technical knowledge to assess what you're given. For instance, how much do you know about the iPhone, the new SDK, the background processing limitation, and the possibility of Andriod looming in the distance? If you can't have a discussion about that, you're going to have a hard time hiring a hacker that can do that work. Rule of thumb: you can't hire someone if you can't have a long conversation about what you want them to do.

</comment><comment><USER10> I've been there, and have had great experiences with hackers. I'm a non-hacker myself. What I found to be succesful was:

1) Be intellectually curious. If you are interested in what a hacker does he'll like you. If you understand and learn what he does he will respect you.

2) Treat hackers on an equal footing with the guys that wear ties. Hackers should decide technical stuff - not people with ties.

3) Talk straight - hackers seem to hate politics and hidden agendas, and often aren't very good at them.

4) Keep hackers informed of all aspects of the business. This partly relates to 4) but a sidepoint is that they like to learn. I know at least one hacker that now knows a decent amount of marketing ;-)

5) be fair and play nice. Keep the dirty side of the business out of the way of the hackers. This relates to 2), 3), and 4)

6) give credit where credit is due.

</comment><comment><USER11> If I see that you are less intelligent than me, and do less work than me, but you make more money than me, then well what do you expect?

I think fundamentally it is a matter of respect. If you respect the hacker, the hacker will respect you.

I think the easiest thing to do is to demonstrate that you have valuable non- hacker skills that contribute just as much to the project as the hacker does.

It is also a matter of trust. If you trust your hackers, they will trust you. A big problem for you, however, is that it will be much harder for you to figure out which hackers are trustworthy without hacker skills.

</comment><comment><USER12> i'm talking from the hacker standpoint.

if i would leave, it would be because the non-hacker in charge of the "business aspects" thought they meant that they were in charge of the direction of the business as a whole. this would manifest itself as not taking/considering the hacker's advice on things that the hacker knows better, not including the hacker on important decisions, etc.. if you're getting a hacker or two as a co-founder, they're a co-founder, not a low-level employee.

if you want a good environment and recruits, make sure that the work style is open and full of communication on important issues, and there are spheres of influence. for example, hackers know code. from a business standpoint, you can suggest features and such, but the hackers should get the final input on what happens with the code and therefore the product. and vice versa, hackers should have input on the business aspect if you're the business person, and you should take their input seriously, but in the end, you're the business person and you have the final say. the spheres shouldn't necessarily be exactly like that, but they should be well defined and stuck to, imo.

my $0.02.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks!

I'm not actually the business person either. I worked in medicine, and some constantly stupid things I see make me angry. I think I can design a product to take the stupid out of the processes I saw working in medicine. I also think that my solution to the problem I see might work as a platform for other health care innovations. Once our demo is working, we will decide together how to go forward, but I probably will be focused on design and medical aspects and hire a person for the business aspects too. Because our company is basically applying design and tech to medical problems, this means I will be CEO, so our focus stays there. However, my style includes being aware of my limitations, and delegating 100% of tech to the hacker, who wants to grow into CTO. A large aspect of our company will include components like creating a medical protocol, clinical trials and medical demographics, with tech being about 30-45% of what we need, so we may be substantially different then most Y startups in that respect.

I'm working on setting up a wiki to help organize our information and communication and preserve spheres of influence. I used to do some minor hacking as a kid back in the day, but just enough to have some respect for hackers and know I'm (way) out of my league if I want it done right.

<comment><USER12> i'm working on a medical-related startup myself ;)

<comment><AUTHOR> Fun. I hope we are not competing. :)

Out of curiosity, are you working on implementing your own idea or did a non- tech person contribute the idea you are working on?

<comment><USER12> non-tech person came to me with the idea and i accepted based on the idea, market feasibility, business model, and the work load.

for reference, i don't think we're working together. but i really hope we're not competing, its a fairly stagnant, old market and i don't want to have a new tough competitor :(

<comment><AUTHOR> There are certainly plenty of stagnant old markets in the medical industry.

<comment><USER12> and lots of opportunity for startups to grow and profit, is what i like to tell myself.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> The mere fact that you read ycombinator and even think of asking such a question surely puts you light-years ahead of the meat-heads being railed against. I wish I knew something about iPhone development and were looking for a job because you are likely the kind of person I would want to work for. I wish my boss read ycombinator!

</comment><comment><USER14> Read "Smart & Gets Things Done" by Joel Spolsky:

<http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2007/06/05.html>

<comment><AUTHOR> I ordered it. It's on it's way. Thanks for the suggestion!

<comment><USER15> Judging by Joel's articles, he at least claims to hire only the best of the best of the.. you get the idea.

Depending on how challenging your software is to develop, you might want to set the bar a bit lower (than the _seriouslyfreakingabsolute_ best).

A genuinely good developer should be more than enough for most tasks, but maybe your product can't be built by merely good developers.

Hackers seem to be quite idealistic too. They would probably like the idea of doing something "good".

Maybe even something to make the world a better place - and who knows, maybe your medical thingie qualifies! (Sorry, I'm feeling a bit playful here, and right now I can't see the post where you explained things)

What can you offer that would lure hackers to your venture?

How about offering to get them hot chicks? Moderately hot ones? .. only slightly retina-burning chicks?

At first, I thought of suggesting you respect your "hackers" as fellow human beings, and make sure they find you respectable too. I guess that's my two cents after all.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> The same way a non-expert should hire a good sailor, mercenary, sommelier, writer, butler, lawyer, guide, pilot, surgeon, mechanic, etc.

Find out who's regarded as knowledgeable and effective within their fields (preferably by people who know firsthand), be prepared to pay them well, tell them what you want done, and stay out of their way. Expect a certain measure of mild disdain when you clumsily tread on their domain, and listen to what they have to say.

</comment><comment><USER7> I think this is why it's so valuable to know and be friends before the relationship of "non-hacker" and "hacker" begins.

then, everybody will most likely be on a equal footing and not be worried about revenue, equity, and such.

btw, all hackers do not do the same amount/quality of work, so will we now institute a weighted system of value for hacker vs. hacker as many people here have for hacker vs. non-hacker

</comment><comment><USER17> Helpful thread for a business co-founder such as myself. While the goal has always been a "co" relationship, this has helped me think about and communicate that.

</comment><comment> craig-faber Thanks, LPTS, for asking that. I'm in a similar possition. And thanks for the replies, especially aggieben.

</comment><comment><USER18> You can start by not calling them 'hackers'. Only hackers get to call hackers hackers.

<comment><USER19> The last thing we need is more words that work like that.

<comment><USER20> Yes, really. I hate the idea of words that only a select group can use.</comment></comment></comment>


Gigabit Internet access grows out of its niche - <AUTHOR> http://www.cio.com/article/2951966/consumer-technology/gigabit-internet-access-grows-out-of-its-niche.html

<comment><AUTHOR> Data shows that new subscribers are signing up at an annualized growth rate of 480 percent each year . Between the third quarter of 2014 and the second quarter of 2015 gigabit, subscribers grew from 40,000-174,000.</comment>


Ask HN: Is there a need for a non-profit search engine? - <AUTHOR> Couple of points to consider<p>- profit-seeking doesn't necessarily mean biased, although it could.<p>- non-profit doesn't necessarily mean non-tracking, although it could.<p>- how would a non-tracking search engine provide results as relevant as a tracking search engine<p>* 'tracking' is used liberally to mean the engine uses information about you other than the term searched for. <comment><USER2> Already exists : Yacy [http://yacy.net/](http://yacy.net/)

<comment><AUTHOR> Did not know, thanks!</comment></comment>


3D Virtual File for PC and MAC - YouTube - <AUTHOR> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPpz0ltH12E&feature=related BIM (Building Information Modeling) technology has aided architects and engineers to capitalize on virtual 3D prototypes. However, to facilitate the rapid ex... <comment><USER2> This, folks, is an example of how _not_ to do a promotional video.

About one-third of the way through the video, I was convinced this was a plug- in that lets you embed 3D objects inside Powerpoint presentations. After watching the video all the way through the end, I honestly have no clue what this product is or does.</comment>


Sleep deprivation may cause people to eat more calories - <AUTHOR> http://sciencebulletin.org/archives/7257.html <comment><USER2> I think that studying anyone in fire/EMS that works 24 hour shifts will show you the same conclusions.

</comment><comment><USER3> I believe it. I care less about what I eat when I'm sleep deprived.</comment>


Tesla Motors loses Top Gear appeal in UK - <AUTHOR> http://www.treehugger.com/cars/tesla-loses-top-gear-appeal-uk.html

<comment><USER2> Shame that a tech company decided to go after such clown as Clarkson. So much resources wasted.

Anyway, anyone who watches the show will know even them are recognizing they are no a factual show, but an entertainment one (except when going to the USofA ofc).</comment>


Alleged RSA Authentication Crack - <AUTHOR> http://securitywatch.eweek.com/vulnerability_research/researchers_claim_rsa_authentication_crack.html

<comment><USER2> Brother. I knew this would happen in the popular media, but even the industry pubs are screwing this up with alarmist headlines.

Sidechannel, people SIDECHANNEL! This is NOT an RSA crack. Not even remotely close. If you have physical access to the encrypting hardware, you can probably get at the private key by other means. Causing voltage fluctuations in the power supply is an interesting attack, but it is more of a curiosity than anything else.</comment>


Ask HN: Examples of rev share + fixed pricing model side by side? - <AUTHOR>

Hi HN - can anyone point me in the direction of a SaaS offering where the business offers a choice between a "free" w/ revenue share plan vs. a fixed price plan w/ no rev share?
i.e.:
Plan A: Free + 30% of sales
Plan B: $199/mo - 0% of sales
Am considering doing something along these lines w/ my product and would like to see how others have positioned this. <comment><USER2> I have never heard of this for a software service. I don't am skeptical that many businesses would sign up for the rev share plan. You'd have to be offering something incredibly valuable / rare to even entertain it.</comment>


How Blackberry, not Twitter, fuelled the fire under London's riots - <AUTHOR> http://eu.techcrunch.com/2011/08/08/how-blackberry-not-twitter-fuelled-the-fire-under-londons-riots/ <comment><USER2> Setting aside the riots, the prevalence of BBM amongst teenagers is a really astonishing phenomenon. Blackberry is _the_ smartphone brand amongst British teenagers and if a peer group has "gone BBM" the network effects mean that no other brand is even worth contemplating. In the UK at least, RIM have practically given up on the corporate market and BlackBerry is increasingly seen solely as a youth brand. BBM is so deeply entrenched that there's a palpable backlash[1].

I'd love to see some research done on the ethnography of it all. The common argument is that BBM is a very cheap way of keeping in touch - unlimited data is £5 a month even on a prepaid tariff - but I'm not sure how well that argument holds up. Unlimited SMS has been that cheap for years and there are plenty of other options.

I think the real reason is more sophisticated. I think (but can't prove) that many of the enterprise features in BBM are hugely valuable to young people. Ubiquitous, instant delivery and read receipts are helpful for corporate users, but they're _vital_ if you're a teenager who has just asked someone out on a date. The simple but highly nuanced implementation of message groups was clearly intended to allow easy and ad-hoc communication for business groups, but allows teenagers the fine-grained control they demand over their social circles.

In many ways, what Google are trying to achieve with Circles in Google+ has been achieved by teenagers using BBM. I think in many ways BBM is as important as Twitter, but entirely invisible to the outside world. I think we have a huge amount to learn from the runaway success of Blackberry amongst the youth.

[1]<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yt8hECfLu-k>

<comment><USER3> In South Africa, Blackberry was voted "Coolest Brand" in a 2011 survey of urban youth, so the phenomenon is not limited to the UK ( [http://www.newstime.co.za/ScienceandTech/Generation_Next_Nam...](http://www.newstime.co.za/ScienceandTech/Generation_Next_Names_BlackBerry_South_Africa%E2%80%99s_Coolest_Brand/26027/) ).

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> I think a lot of the looters using BBM failed to realize that RIM will hand over the message data upon receiving a police subpoena, plus BBM is much more tightly attached to a persons real identity than say a twitter account.

Pretty much anyone who sent a self-incriminating message or incited violence/rioting is likely to get arrested over the coming weeks.

<comment><USER5> You can transmit information without incriminating yourself. To wit, "Shits getting real at Goodge Street! You gotta come see!"

<comment><USER4> The police will have a lot of photographs, film, etc. of what went on. The hardest part is matching those images to people, identifying who was at the scene of the crime via BBM, etc. makes that a lot easier.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> I'm in Colombia this week to give a talk, and I was asking people about their phones. Turns out that if you've got lots of money to spend on your phone, you get an iPhone, if you've got some money, you get an android, and if you're poor or working class you get a blackberry.

It's fascinating that blackberry has moved from the phone of business, to the phone of the poor and youth.

<comment><USER7> Heh, no, that demographic gets BlackBerrys because rappers like Jay-Z rap about them, they are an accessory, the same demographic buys Rolexes while people who actually have money to spend on a watch get a Patek Phillippe.

<comment><USER8> It's not often this flavor of condescending twattery makes it to HN.

Why do you think Jay-Z raps about/endorses it? If the answer is as simple as, "He's paid to," then surely he'd be rapping about other brands beyond the traditional Escalade/Cristal/etc. The real answer is that Blackberry is an inexpensive smart phone option that is not the "white and corporate" option. You've got an unrealistic idea of what poor and urban looks like and acts like.

A Blackberry IS an accessory, but only because it's considered a symbol of being part of a particular group, not because rappers endorse it.

"Real money buys Patek Phillippe." Give me a break.

<comment><USER7> _Encore_ was released in 2003, long before BB was the "inexpensive smartphone".

Jay-Z is a businessman first and foremost. Kids don't care about Exchange integration or whatever. He namechecks the brands he likes (as far as I know, he has no official relationship with the brand) and his fans buy them. Same with Rolex, I don't think they have marketing arrangement with any rappers but they get namechecked all the time.

<comment><USER8> You're right, if it wasn't for Jay-Z black people would be using iPhones. Also I'm not sure how a mention in 2003 has spurred adoption in 2011.

<comment><USER7> Why play the race card? Living in London you will see that "urban youth" comes in all shades. They don't buy BB because it is the cheapest (it isn't) or "the best" (for whatever values of best), but because it's fashionable, because style icons for whatever reason have adopted it. I don't know why you want to argue with this.

FWIW I have a BB myself, I am certainly not disparaging anyone else who has one...

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> I live in Brixton, where the 'riots' spread to last night. Didn't sleep very well, though the magnitude surprised me when I awoke (I'm now immune to sirens at all hours - the 'Brixton whistle' doesn't disturb me).

Definitely a degree of organisation and cohesion. When I went for milk this morning, people had smashed into Tesco and Lidl (big supermarket chains) but left all the independent grocers alone.

Overhearing the word on the street, there's not much more to be done in my area, but bigger targets (Oxford Circus in particular) will cop it tonight. Of course, the real BBM message may be different...

<comment><USER4> Tesco (and to a lesser extent Lidl) stock higher value goods than most independent grocers...

<comment><USER10> Tesco is big and corporate and therefore evil. In riots in Copenhagen similar rationales has been offered quite explicitly.

<comment><USER4> Tesco stores frequently sell high-value electronics, dvds, etc. They also sell high-cost consumables like razor blades and condoms which are frequent targets for shoplifters.

It's much more likely greed was the cause of the decision of what to loot rather than ethics.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> This article provides very little facts to support the thesis that BBM was the core medium behind the protests. It all boils down to "BBM is non-public", "Blackberries are cheaper than Androids and iPhones" and "Duggan used BlackBerry Messenger to send his last message to his girlfriend".

And the linked post? All it has to prove the connection is the output of bbm+tottenham query from, yeah, you guessed it, Twitter. All in all not very convincing if you ask me.

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> Not sure if it adds much, but here's the Guardian's take on the same story:

[http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/aug/08/london-riots- fac...](http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/aug/08/london-riots-facebook- twitter-blackberry)

</comment><comment><USER12> I'm not sure what we're supposed to take away from this. BBM is the weapon of choice for the modern rioter? I confess I've never used the software - does it include special features to incite rioting?

Neither Blackberry, Twitter, nor Facebook fuelled the fire under London's riots, any more than the internet, radio waves, or electricity did. Violent, hateful people did that.

<comment><USER13> Actually, if we drop the Victorian mindset that people are innately criminals, we might look to the social and economic causes - massive unemployment amongst black youth, closure of youth services, almost complete political disenfranchisement - for something of an explanation of the riots.

<comment><USER4> I think "we want free stuff" is a pretty good explanation for the vast majority of the looting, and "smashing stuff is fun" for the destruction.

There are plenty of places with high-unemployment, political disenfranchisement, etc. which haven't turned to rioting.

While it may have been a contributing cause (if you've got less to risk you might be more willing to get involved in looting, etc.) to say it was the primary reason is insulting to the million of law-abiding individuals from struggling economic and social backgrounds.

<comment><USER14> Your answer is a diversion. You changed the reason to "these people want free stuff".

That doesn't help. Why aren't YOU looting and rioting and "wanting free stuff"?

We're back to the same question again. Why these people? Why this group?

<comment><USER7> This is a "deprived" area of London, but the question is, what are they being deprived of? What is it that they had before, that has been taken away? What do other parts of London have that they do not?

If you want an answer, it's that successive governments _gave_ them free stuff, everything from their housing up, and now they can't really tell the difference between stuff you just get and stuff you're free to take anymore.

<comment><USER14> You don't need to have lost something to be deprived. You can be deprived of chances that others have.

<comment><USER7> Which are what exactly?

Unless I'm mistaken the people of Tottenham get free educations to the age of 18 same as everyone else in the UK. They also have as good a public transport infrastructure as anywhere else and can work anywhere in London.

<comment><USER14> Well that's what we're trying to find the answer to: what's different about this group of people?

<comment><USER7> And I told you. They've been given so much they can't now see why they can't just take anything they want.

Seriously, you don't fight for freedom/education/"a chance" by nicking a 50" plasma TV. And doing so is an insult to people like, for example, the Libyans and Egyptians who really did - and do - fight for something worthwhile.

<comment><USER14> But that's no answer at all - all of this "free stuff" you talk about is available to other groups who did not loot.

<comment><USER15> They probably also had different upbringing, and grew with mindset that society owns them something. Why? Who knows. Just because. It simmilar where I am. People don't bother to go to elections and then complain to no end how bad tha parlament is as if that parlament was somehow forced onto us…

<comment><USER14> I don't agree. "Just because" is no answer. And your first point is an opinion, not a fact, your last point is a different issue.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> I think this is plain silly. The article does not provide any proof besides telling us how BBM could have possibly be used in such cases. Did you really catch people who planned it using BBM ?

Showing couple of BBM results from twitter is a clear case of ignoring the elephant in the room (twitter itself) and going after a fly.

</comment><comment><USER17> In Venezuela for example, Blackberry penetration is quite a phenomenon.

Also, it has become a symbol of status and a desired luxury item to the point where people are literally getting killed for it.

Yes, Iphone and Android are growing like weed and we all know RIM's latest setbacks. But outside the USA, BB is quite strong.</comment>


Should I use www? - grey-area https://dainty.domains/blog/6-should-i-use-www-or-not-in-a-domain-name <comment><AUTHOR> Now seriously, I only find useful to prepend www.* to my domain when I have plenty other subdomains, as for instance a shop, a landing page (it'd be the www), a blog and so on. If I only buy a domain to put a web (portfolio, blog or whatever), I just leave it as it is. Maybe it's "wrong" regarding some defacto rule, but I usually find it redundant when in the second case.

</comment><comment><USER2> when on the phone, I like to to tell people to go to 'whoo whoo whoo' then my website domain, because that's a how a teacher in school used to talk about web sites in class in the 90s and find it funny.</comment>


The US military is testing stratospheric balloons that never have to come down - <AUTHOR> https://www.technologyreview.com/s/612417/darpa-is-testing-stratospheric-balloons-that-ride-the-wind-so-they-never-have-to-come-down/ <comment><USER2> The article fails to mention these are called "superpressure" balloons in case you're interested in reading more about them: [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superpressure_balloon](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superpressure_balloon)

There are some fantastic amateur projects doing similar things, such as this 11 gram payload (!) that circumnavigated the earth 6 times: [http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-64/index.html](http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-64/index.html)

<comment><USER3> Do you know what materials they use to make these balloons? Weather balloons can go as high as 100,000 feet and then they'd blow up.

<comment><USER4> AFAIK they only blow up because they're designed that way.

<comment><USER5> Bursting is not a goal in itself - it is just a side-effect of using cheap and simple latex or rubber balloons.

You fill the balloon so it has slightly positive buoyancy. As it rises, it encounters lower outside air pressure, and expands to match it. Eventually it will rise to an altitude where the pressure is so low, that the latex is stretched beyond its limits and bursts. Typically at about 40km and about 100x expansion in volume.

To prevent bursting, you need a more complex material that will expand many times at first (to allow the balloon to rise to operating height), but will then stop expanding without breaking.

<comment><USER6> Or perhaps some sort of venting system that engages at a certain altitude or pressure preventing the ballon from over expanding. Like a hot water tank has a pressure release it the tank gets too hot will vent releasing pressure.

<comment><USER7> Venting does not work. For a given altitude, there is no amount of helium which will make your craft stable unless the volume of your craft is non- linear with pressure (usually done by having something that stretches to a limit, and then cannot stretch further)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> From reading the actual article, the headline sounds dramatically overblown. It largely talks about a system to measure non local wind speeds so the balloon can adjust altitude to use the wind for navigation (including standing still). It seems to largely leave out any questions I'd have around confining helium or whether power equilibrium can be achieved.

</comment><comment><USER9> Don't balloons expand in the day and contact at night a bit due the sun heating the gas inside? Couldn't this stretch/release weaken the material a little and result in potential gas leaks?

To counteract this, I recall reading about people trying to send balloons across the Atlantic and needing to use ballast to stabilize the altitude and handle the gas losses. I wonder how DARPA can go without this requirement, as Helium really likes to escape whatever it's trapped inside of.

<comment><USER10> Maybe the balloon could condense water in its environment and electrolyze it to refill itself with the produced hydrogen. (Though I'm pretty sure you also need salt.)

<comment><USER11> If a balloon is relatively small, and designed never to come down, would it be such a bad idea to use hydrogen as the lifting gas? We're understandably a little gunshy about using hydrogen after the Hindenburg, but surely we could come up with some safer designs now.

<comment><USER12> Hydrogen is a great lifting gas, but because the molecule is so small, it leaks out easily.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> I read a lot of books about the US involvement in the middle east, specifically Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan.

These persistent, balloon based "eyes on the sky" are/were a huge difference maker in the security in Iraq, and were then transferred to Afghanistan to provide US military base security.

I don't have a link handy (I'll try to find), but I remember as attention was re-focused on Afghanistan (after Iraq) those in charge were eager to bring this successful tech to the battlefield as it offered them a 360 degree, real time tracking ability for immediate base security.

Edit: I found a link, not _my_ source but it gives some background: [https://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/13/world/asia/in- afghanistan...](https://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/13/world/asia/in-afghanistan- spy-balloons-now-part-of-landscape.html)

</comment><comment><USER14> To my knowledge, there has been one successful SPB scientific payload that made it across the Pacific. SPB-EUSO was less successful...

</comment><comment><USER4> How do these balloons change their altitude? Is there a pump that can move gas between the balloon and a pressurized container?

<comment><USER15> At least at loon, the balloon has a ballonet that takes on atmosphere as ballast for descending.

<comment><USER7> A balloonet is a small balloon inside the big balloon. By filling it with air, you are adding mass to the craft without changing the crafts volume.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> Amateur ballooning blog [http://www.leobodnar.com/balloons/](http://www.leobodnar.com/balloons/)

</comment><comment><USER17> Someone should post the ballooning guys blog. He used metal balloons that stayed afloat for days and went around the world.</comment>


★★★★★[dot]com - <AUTHOR> http://★★★★★.com/

<comment><USER2> >this IP has been banned

huh. What was this site meant to be? All I'm getting is a blank page ban message.

</comment><comment><USER3> super cool, how does this work?

<comment><AUTHOR> It's a non-ascii / International domain-name. Most browsers default to the punycode notation.

Our wonderful @Mathias made a great tool here which handles these domains:

[http://mothereff.in/punycode](http://mothereff.in/punycode)</comment></comment>


Ask HN: Can I visit your tech business in NY City? - <AUTHOR> Hi, I'm a techy business dev. working for an app development company in Cape Town, South Africa.
I'll be in New York City on Thursday 27th and Friday 28th September; and would love to visit any New York based tech companies.
If you're doing something interesting; have a great startup culture that I could learn from; or just feel like chatting to someone from the tip of Africa - please let me know!
Any referrals or introductions would also be sincerely appreciated!
More info about me here: http://nicksmit.co.za or http://touchlab.co.za You can also get in touch with me here: @nickste
edit: I'd really like to visit FourSquare - I'm really interested in what they're doing in the mobile space - so please let me know if you've got any contacts! <comment><USER2> Stop by General Assembly; (<http://generalassemb.ly/>) you can most likely get a tour of the place or sign up for one of the classes they have that day. Just let them know beforehand that you'd like to check out the space. Great vibe & atmosphere. Lots of other startups & incubators/workspaces in the area (Flatiron) as well.

<comment><USER3> My company <http://customer.io> works out of General Assembly. Happy to give you a tour. Feel free to send me an email: colin at customer io

<comment><USER4> Nice idea but you're pricing is outrageous.

<comment><USER5> In general, if you find yourself thinking that, consider that you may not be the target customer.

Many companies which had a need for customer.io previously a) hired out very expensive people to build it to them (I have a couple of five figure invoices attributed directly to it not existing as an off-the-rack option last year) and b) can trivially go through several hundred bucks just having a single meeting on what to say in the emails.

You can, of course, code it for yourself out of duct tape and bailing wire, and that will pretty much work if you never need the non-technical marketing team to touch it.

<comment><USER6> If customer.io succeeds , how much time will it take for other people to duplicate it and bring pricing down ? If customer.io provide top notch copywriting with the automated emailing, then they may have something here. Even higher pricing only based on conversion makes much more sense and i would pay for it.

<comment><USER7> Customer acquisition is a significant portion of starting a business. You have to make a new market and/or get customers from your competitor. If your competitor is charging more money for their product, they can afford to spend more on advertising to let people know they exist.

<comment><USER6> I don't have much karma on HN yet, but I don't see any reason for down voting my comment. Can someone explain to me why my comment is considered "not useful" or stupid ? am I doing something wrong by expressing my opinion in a genuine way I can ?

<comment><USER8> I could see your first comment getting downvoted, since it was short, negative, and incorrect.

Your next comment (and this one), no. You're absolutely right that you shouldn't have been downvoted. You're still arguing against a whole lot of existence disproof, but you make your point well and offer some constructive commentary and alternative ideas.

Stick around. You're providing more value here than whoever it was that went off on you with the downvote button.

<comment><USER6> Thank You!

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> You should make a list of companies you are interested in and email them to schedule a visit.

Tell them what you want to accomplish during your visit and make sure to research the company beforehand.

</comment><comment><USER10> You're welcome to check out OkCupid — just drop me an email (address in my profile).

If you stop by on Thursday afternoon, you can join us for lunch and a game of Catch Phrase. Or, come after work and challenge someone to Mario Kart or Smash. Or, stop by any other time and we'll still be happy to show you around.

</comment><comment><USER11> Most NYC tech startups will be more than happy to visit with you for a bit and give you a tour. I did this just before graduating from University. I visited General Assembly, Betaworks, Etsy, and also some really small companies. Just email beforehand and try to arrange a time that works for both of you.

</comment><comment><USER12> New York in general, or New York City?

It's around a 7 hour drive from one end of the state to the other.

<comment><AUTHOR> Good point - New York City! I've edited the primary submission to reflect. Thanks for the headsup!

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> Hey, I'll be visiting NYC next week too, I'm from Colombia(South America), I'm attending startup weekend and trying to connect with some people over there, let's meet if you want, builes.adolfo at gmail dot com

</comment><comment><USER14> Hey Nick - come and visit us at Datadog <http://datadoghq.com> We're on 26th and Broadway, next to a great many other startups. I'm oli@

</comment><comment><USER15> Check out many startups at WeWork Labs. 175 Varick Street, 4th Floor <http://weworklabs.com/new-york-city/>

<comment><USER16> Yep! The company I work at <http://www.fitocracy.com> has been with WWL since the beginning, let me know if you want a tour, it's a great environment.

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> I don't work out of the NYC office, but if you're interested in checking out www.getharvest.com, I can see if one of my co-workers would be willing to chat you up.

jon at getharvest

</comment><comment><USER18> FogCreek does tours sometimes from what I vaguely recall..

</comment><comment><USER19> Feel free (you or anyone reading this) to drop me an email and come visit Art.sy, we're on Broadway & Canal (dblock[at]dblock[dot]org).

</comment><comment><USER20> I tend to work out of a space in the union square area near GA, feel free to drop me a line and time permitting I'm down for a fun chat.</comment>


Semil Shah, TechCrunch contributor and entrepreneur, talks Color - <AUTHOR> http://namesake.com/conversation/brian/today-talking-colorcom-techcrunch-contributor

<comment><USER2> This should be good.... : )

<comment><AUTHOR> I like his point about what color has to give in return to a user. Right now, that's not much.</comment></comment>


Why Hack Design Is Important - <AUTHOR> http://blog.wells.ee/hack-design

<comment><USER2> This is great. I have been rather interested in the relationship between design and developing lately, and I must say this project 'Hack Design' is something that is truly needed within the hacker realm of today. Too many creators are lacking in their design-intelligence, which becomes an issue with getting your creation out there.</comment>


Simple Strong Password Generator - <AUTHOR> http://simplestrongpasswordgenerator.com/

<comment><USER2> Relies on browser's random number generator to choose from word list. A browser's RNG is of dubious quality at best; you're not likely to really get 44 bits of entropy from it.

<comment><USER2> [http://weblog.bocoup.com/random-numbers/](http://weblog.bocoup.com/random- numbers/) \-- random number generators in common web browsers (& more)

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> Reminds me of this thing I did awhile back for some laughs: [http://dfcb.github.io/manly-man-passwords/](http://dfcb.github.io/manly-man- passwords/)</comment>


Von Brian Bagnall 2 Erstellt Commodore: The Final Years Book - <AUTHOR> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1462758959/commodore-the-final-years-book <comment><USER2> If you're interested in commodore's history here's a good book.

Commodore: A Company on the Edge by Brian Bagna</comment>


Darpa seeks to free the world from passwords - <AUTHOR> http://www.extremetech.com/computing/122823-darpa-seeking-to-free-the-world-from-passwords <comment><USER2> Also, this suffers from the same issue as many (all?) biometric authentication systems: revocation support.

Say someone hacks the db where my particular typing style signature is stored. Now they can skip the typing and send the signal my keyboard would have sent and authenticate as me to whatever service was using that db.

You can push the problem into hardware (authenticate the keyboard as well) but that's just making the same mistake twice (once the keyboard gets hacked...).

Part of a good authentication system is being able to change the locks on the door when someone loses a key, which is why biometric data is particularly unsuited for the purpose.

<comment><USER3> Or, what if the attacker set up a website (say, a forum) and enticed someone to visit it and type something, and the site used javascript to log their typing patterns?

Perhaps if it relied on strength of hitting the keys, this would be harder, though some of this data might be retrievable from an accelerometre.

<comment><USER4> I wonder if that could handle changes in typing style. I've had finger injuries where I was deliberately typing softly with one or more fingers. Would I still be able to log in?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> The article really doesn't say anything more than the headline already did (then gets into "high-entropy random character strings are hard to remember" --> solution: "read xkcd, use passphrases"). Also, the DARPA program is more involved than this implies.

They do link to the DARPA Active Authentication program:

[http://www.darpa.mil/Our_Work/I2O/Programs/Active_Authentica...](http://www.darpa.mil/Our_Work/I2O/Programs/Active_Authentication.aspx)

The thrust of which is that they want a better way to establish that the expected user is in fact the one at the keyboard, including ongoing verification of whether they are still the person at the keyboard.

They'd also be extra happy if it works with existing hardware, so they'd like the answer to be things like analyzing the way the keyboard or mouse is used, or analyzing patterns in how you write (IMO probably more trouble than it's worth!). "Implant RFID chips in the hands of all DOD personnel" is off the menu for the moment.

<comment><USER6> As a beneficial side effect, it also helps ensure that the person at the keyboard is the expected user at their expected level of sobriety.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> An extremely interesting idea, but consider me a sceptic until proven wrong. I strongly suspect this is something that might see a few "Show HN: I made..." type posts (not neccesarily on HN), which receive feedback that can be summarised as "nice POC, nice code, not suitable for real use because x, y and z".

<comment><USER8> I agree. Maybe this would be harder than I'd expect, but it seems that if an attacker knows what criteria are used for identification, they could simulate a a given user's typing patterns. And to collect data on how you type, they could collect it when you're typing into your text editor, IDE, website forms, or anywhere else.

It seems there would also be a problem when the same person is signing in on a computer with a keyboard vs on their phone/tablet.

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> I did research in this area last decade, and I'm one of the authors of a survey paper that you might find useful if this subject is interesting to you: [http://utopia.csis.pace.edu/dps/2007/jkile/content/2005-fall...](http://utopia.csis.pace.edu/dps/2007/jkile/content/2005-fall/DCS860A/Extra%20Credit/Original%20papers/j5040.pdf)

There is research stretching back 30 years in this area. Some of the results are very promising, but the field is severely encumbered with patents. I was even threatened with a cease-and-desist while doing a research project in this area for a graduate class.

</comment><comment><USER10> HN thread from a few days ago: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3719200>

</comment><comment><USER11> Admit One Security already does this as a part of their keystroke dynamics tool. One interesting thing they do with it is to use key strokes to see if users are sharing passwords for subscription services. [http://admitonesecurity.com/keystroke_dynamics_advantages.as...](http://admitonesecurity.com/keystroke_dynamics_advantages.asp)

</comment><comment><USER12> It all sounds interesting, though wouldn't it be incredibly hard to identify the same person typing in a keyboard with a different layout or a different device?

<comment><USER13> I think the original idea (or at least the one that DARPA is researching) is that this tech will be only used on government computers, so, assuming they all use the same computer, that should eliminate some of the problem.

For other uses, you're right, this would be impractical, because typing on a physical keyboard is obviously different than a touch-screen phone keyboard.</comment></comment>


Trademark Woes - <AUTHOR>

Hey HN, just wanted to vent and share our recent experiences lately with trademarking.
We had a very relevant and favorable name for our startup. We've purchased the domain name, built the technology, worked on design and marketing/messaging, and purchased business cards. Only months later after all that work and talking to customers and mentors to develop our product did we start the process to trademark our name. We're fortunate to have access to a trademark attorney, who told us that our name has a big chance conflicting with another trademark recently granted which lists what seems like every internet software good and service under the sun, only a few letters off but pronounced very similarly. Overall, we're fortunate to not have incorporated yet, but I think it's more the attachment to the name and the time spent developing our messaging that's got us down.
After getting over the initial stage of feeling bummed we have to abandon that relevant name, we spent a week brainstorming new names that sounded unique, domain was available, and a uspto.gov search turned up no concerning results. We narrowed it down to a few favorites, and decided on our favorite one. We were so excited around this new name, started brainstorming how we could leverage a play on the name for marketing, design, and focusing the company around a cool character mascot we began sketching. Spoke to the trademark attorney today and he found another trademark with goods and services described as a desktop CMS application and selling prerecorded video/audio recordings for lessons in marketing. At first we said no, that's so different from what we're doing! But then he showed us a similar application for a different spelling of the name we wanted, along with the letter for rejection by the trademark office, which explained:
The goods and/or services of the parties need not be identical or directly competitive to find a likelihood of confusion. Rather, they need only be related in some manner, or the conditions surrounding their marketing are such that they would be encountered by the same purchasers under circumstances that would give rise to the mistaken belief that the goods and/or services come from a common source.
Now we're back to square one. We're thinking for this round we need to brainstorm names that are obscure, possibly in a different language, or a word that means nothing at all.
Does anyone have any similar stories or advice to share? Going through this frustrating process, I'm surprised any startup is able to choose any name with common words in them. Do many companies just go with a name once they secure the domain and hope for the best?
Thanks for any feedback. <comment><USER2> It's a pain the neck that is for sure!

Try Swahili (East Africa) names, they sound good rolling off the tongue. My steps have always been: Domain Check, Search Name on Internet with Combos, Trademark "word mark." If you can get past all of that, then you need to check for the logo design trademark search. Really, the wordmark is quite important. BUT....another important step now in my opinion is checking for all the Twitter and Facebook URL's too. Trying to brand that one domain with everything... makes it pretty tough huh?

If the domain is not available I move on, else go to the next steps.

I spent 4-6 months trying to come up with a name, but I suppose its different for everyone.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for the Swahili tip, I will definitely check that out.

Wow 4-6 months, that puts things into perspective...we go through the same steps except for the logo design trademark search. Currently we're two devs, looking for a designer and business/marketer. Until then, I wear those hats as well, and we always figured once we get a decent designer on board, we'd have a logo worth pursuing a design trademark for.

<comment><USER2> I don't think it's really that important to have the logo designed exactly the way you want it. The most important step is the 'word mark' or 'standard character mark' the name itself. You probably don't want to spend $300 for each class of good in the short-run, but minimally get the main one down, so you have some grounds to work from. The most important step is adding the TM to the name and logo being used in commerce. This helps protect the name ahead of time.

You can file the trademark yourself. I would look at all the competitors in the space through trademark searches, see how they define the trademark and the define your own balancing being really broad vs. very exact. If there is a problem in your filing, the attorney at the trademark office will help you out and you don't need to pay anything. They can't advise you on how to protect the name, but they will ensure the wording in form is correct. Actually, I was quite impressed at their customer service!

This is all just my opinion, I am no expert in trademarks. But I love the process of building a name brand. Trademarks are pretty important to avoid complications that you have encountered. Good Luck! Sorry for the woes and I hope you find a really cool name. Luckily .coms are loosing some ground as the ONLY name to get these days.

<comment><AUTHOR> Glad to hear the self-filing process is not too bad. Thank you for sharing your experiences and advice, it's greatly appreciated!

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> That sucks, but I'm surprised a domain was available when the trademark wasn't - usually it's the other way around. What's worse than likelihood of confusion claims are dilution claims. For marks that are well known enough, there doesn't even need to be any kind relationship. Even a small plush toy manufacturer couldn't call themselves "Microsoft." This is why so many web companies go with neologisms.

Here's a pretty good primer on trademark law: <http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/metaschool/fisher/domain/tm.htm>

<comment><AUTHOR> I was surprised at first too, but after all this hassle it seems like one company with a domain name trademarked prevents others from buying domains that sound, are spelled, or are somewhat similar selling relatively similar products or services, so now I'm not so surprised.

I agree, dilution are an even bigger can of worms...</comment></comment>


Engineering data we show our CEO every week - <AUTHOR> https://linearb.io/blog/two-data-points-the-vp-of-engineering-should-show-the-ceo-every-week/ <comment><USER2> This is interesting. Thanks for sharing. By the way, when is the new feature going to be delivered?? :-)

</comment><comment><USER2> Do you guys measure cycle time from Jira tasks?

<comment><USER3> No, the data is measured through the source control (git). Jira tasks often suffer from poor hygiene since developers are tasked to update it manually, an we devs don't like manual stuff ;)</comment></comment>