Ask HN: Can new graduates get (good) remote work? - <AUTHOR> Hey HN,
Long-time lurker here. I'm going to be graduating my Computer Science BSc in Summer 2017, and like the idea of getting involved in remote work.
There are several companies which actively hire remote workers, however are they less likely to take on new graduates who don't have prior experience in a larger workplace environment?
Also, for those who are working remotely, do you know if graduate developer salaries are reasonable (I'm UK-based, not in London)?
Thanks for any information! :) <comment><USER2> In my opinion and to a first approximation, this is a bad idea. The technical experience gained in a person's first professional setting have a massive impact on a person's technical development over the course of their career. I think of Peter Norvig going to work for Margret Hamilton.

That's the other aspect. Working in an office expands one's professional network more usefully than remote work ever can...Norvig later went to NASA's Ames Research.

I'll put it another way. Being a new graduate means lacking the experience to make highly informed professional judgments. Recognizing that you're in that position is useful when considering making a radical career decision at the start of one's career. Don't kid yourself, choosing to work remote has a high probability of being seen as a negative trait in future hiring because it is hard to determine if it is a 'real' job. Remote work creates a deficit in social proof (alongside the deficit in social network and the experience deficit).

Finally, difficulty finding remote work is symptomatic of a weak professional network. If it's _really_ a priority, then underpaying freelance work from the notorious freelance sites are where to start. If that's unattractive then, it's not a priority.

Good luck.

<comment><USER3> Makes me sad to read this as my first job didn't have any great technical mentor like that, but was a bunch or regular devs trying to ship a run of the mill product.

How can a grad tell they are going to work for a top company that is great for their career within a good team? Especially if outside the US so not necessarily just going to work for Google.

<comment><USER2> My take is it was a good right out of school job. But it wasn't Google awesome. See: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8736450](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8736450)

Anyway, regular devs shipping regular product is, to me, a better first job than remote work for most people. The people for whom remote work right out of school is less likely to be detrimental are probably people who were banging out open source or side projects while in school...i.e. those with a strong established independent habit.

<comment><USER3> Ok I see. Tangentially, I remember when I graduated I would have hated work at home as the social side was important, and getting to hang out with other techies is a bonus. Now work from home would be good for the family life

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> So by mentioning salary I presume we're talking indefinite contracts here rather than lots of different clients.

To be honest you're going to have a tough time, competition is high and hiring juniors seems quite rare. (You may have more luck with larger remote companies but most remote companies tend towards the smaller side).

However here are some things you can do to maximise your chances (applicable to non remote work too).

1\. Be effective and clear with communication, remote work requires you to over-communicate. Don't assume the person with whom you're talking to via email/slack has all the information that you do.

2\. Being a grad you've got no real CV experience to fall back on, imperative that you have a github/bitbucket account with examples of the work you can do. At least one fully fledged project in the stack that you are targeting. For example if you're going to work with Rails then having a project where you use some common libraries, integrate OAuth or some sort of authentication,talk to external APIs with good test coverage and and documentation.

3\. Almost as important as #2 is to blog with what you're learning, show any companies of the learning that you're doing and the potential that you have. We had an applicant once who included a link to all 50 Amazon reviews he'd written of different tech books, fantastic way to show passion and understanding.

4\. Be realistic, being a grad and go straight into remote work will be tough. Have a plan B.

My advice would be to try and work in a larger company for a while, find the opportunity to work with experienced developers and see how it is, you may actually like being in an office! Remote work is not for everyone and while it seems to be perfect it has many drawbacks.

Best of luck!

<comment><AUTHOR> Your presumption is correct :).

Thank you for this insight. My GitHub has been largely left untouched as I haven't published many of my projects, I'll prioritise this. I like your recommendation on blogging too, definitely seems a good way to provide a log of what I'm getting up to.

I'm fortunate enough to have had a side-project turn into a successful business, however it's largely automated now and requires very little input, hence looking for a "proper job" upon graduating.

That said, it's been entirely working by myself, so I lack the experience of working within a larger company. Based upon some other comments here, it sounds as though I'll have a real tough time getting into remote work without some proven experience under my belt.

Thanks for the advice, I really appreciate it :)

<comment><USER4> Well having a profitable side project is exactly the sort of thing you should show off as much as possible, the fact you took an idea, iterated and created the technology behind it. Sounds like a great idea to blog about it! :) Out of curiosity what is your side project?

What's your motivation for wanting remote work? If you've already got an almost passive income then that should allow you to live in the location best for you and find a company close by in the UK/EU.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Getting a remote job will be pretty hard as a junior developer, since remote work requires more trust in someone's ability to work independently.

I would also say it's not good for someone in your shoes: you'll learn much more and much faster if you're in the same room as experienced software developers.

</comment><comment><USER6> It's a challenge for an employer to support or train a junior developer remotely, which is probably why these jobs are harder to find. They do exist though. I started out working remotely and loved it, but I know I would have grown my skill set much more quickly had I been around experienced developers during that first year on the job.

</comment><comment><USER7> I tried finding a decent remote job as a new grad. I have 4 internships at top companies (Microsoft, Google). I applied to dozens of companies, only got one interview by a NY based company looking for cheap developers in Eastern Europe.

I gave up, I'm probably moving to London soon.

</comment><comment><USER8> Just apply already.</comment>


Why is 0.99999…=1? - <AUTHOR> http://www.xamuel.com/why-is-0point999-1/ <comment><USER2> If you are inclined to believe that 0.3333... = (1/3), can you explain why 0.9999... = 1 is a big leap for you? Whether the case is 0.3333... or 0.9999..., each is the result of a convergent series. ( <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convergent_series> )

On the word "fraction," do you take it to mean the result of dividing an integer by another integer, and that it must be less than 1? An "improper fraction" is still a fraction, nonetheless; hence 1 is also a fraction, namely (1/1), among other representations. ( <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraction_(mathematics)> )

Fractions aside, 0.9999... is a legitimate, albeit strange, way to say "one."

\----

The grade-school approach (which can be used for 0.3333... too):

(1) y = 0.9999...

(2) 10y = 9.9999...

(3) 10y - y = 9.9999... - 0.9999... = 9y

(4) 9y = 9

(5) y = 1

<comment><USER2> I wonder if this Xamuel guy is a bit off his nut. He invents a word, "pseudo- real," to classify 0.9999... and other such representations. He eventually castigates the reasons behind declaring 0.9999...=1, and then asks a profound question: "The real question is not why 0.9999...=1, but rather, what on earth are real numbers in the first place?" It's OK to ask, of course, but he's asking it in a profoundly silly way.

For starters, 0.9999... is no less a real number than 0.9999 (i.e. 9999/10000). If we wish to continue on his line of thought, then we should all concede that any scrawling used to represent a quantity - any quantity, real number or no - is a pseudo-quantity. A scrawling is just not the real thing, whether "quantity" is in fact something real or simply the product of human imagination. Hence, "1" is also a pseudo-real, along with "I", "a", "0.9999...", "cos 0", etc. It's anyone's guess if there is such a thing as a unit of anything at all.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> Can anyone comment on my non-mathematician reasoning here:

0.9999... cannot be represented as a fraction.

0.3333... can be represented as a fraction (1/3).

Therefore we can apply meaningful operations to the fraction (1/3), but when we try to do this on the "intellectual concept" of an everlasting list of 9s, we're trying to operate on a number that cannot exist.

To me, 0.9999... is not a valid number, in the same way that I wouldn't consider the intellectual concept of 5555.... to be a valid number (five recurring, i.e. not 0.5555... but 5555....)

Anyone care to comment on my intuitive reasoning here?

<comment><USER4> Sorry, but your reasoning isn't logical. You accept that point three recurring is one third, presumably because you accepted it as a young child - but you don't make the leap to accepting that point nine recurring is 3/3, by the simple correspondence that every digit is multiplied by three.

<comment><USER3> What I'm trying to get at is that while 0.3333... is a "valid" number because it can be represented by a fraction, 0.9999... is not a valid number because it cannot be represented by a fraction.

Is there any merit in this reasoning, and the idea that 0.3333... is more valid a number than 0.9999...?

<comment><USER5> 0.999... can be represented by a fraction. 3/3 is a fraction. Or 4/4 or 17/17, they all equal one and equal 0.999...

One of the reasons it looks confusing is because fractions are commonly used for numbers < 1\. You see 0.33..., you learn it is less than one, you see 0.99..., and the notation is similar to commonly used numbers less than one.

As long as you realize 0.333... is _exactly_ 1/3, that it is simply the decimal notation for exactly that value, you can understand that 0.999... is _exactly_ 1\. The equation:

x * 3 / 3 * 3 / 3 = x

That's x = x, pretty simple and should hold for any value of x. Now say we plug in 0.333... and look at it this way:

(x * 3 / 3) * (3 / 3) = x

Now you've got 0.999.../3 which leads to ("some number less than one divided by three") times one = "one divided by three". That fails.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> The way I like to explain it to get it to quickly click in anyone's head (math geek and non-math geek alike) is so:

What is true about any two distinct numbers? Answer: there are an infinite number of numbers between them (e.g. between 4.00005 and 4.00006 there are 4.000051, 4.0000501, 4.00005001, etc. You can always add more zeros). But one cannot name a single number between 0.9999... and 1 because they are the same number.

Not really an actual, rigorous proof, but it serves its purpose.</comment>


Ask HN: What is the most pressing need your startup/business faces? - <AUTHOR>

We may not be able to solve all problems optimally, but often we are not the only ones having to solve the specific problem. (Need for a tool, service or idea, etc.) Googling certainly helps, but what helps even more is to talk to more experienced peers. By sharing your most pressing need you may get some great suggestions, and give ideas to people looking for real problems to solve. So put it out there. <comment><USER2> Partners. It's incredible hard for us to get partners to offer our service to their customers as a complementary product.

</comment><comment><USER3> 1\. acquiring users 2\. getting media/bloggers/journo's attention 3\. hiring business development & marketing team in other geographies

</comment><comment><USER4> User feedback + engagement

</comment><comment><USER5> Cashflow</comment>


Ask HN: How do you read long PDFs? - <AUTHOR> I tend to prefer to read PDF files on a regular monitor, but moving up and down a page is wonky and most readers don't save your place on the document. Also, sometimes the font is too small when you fit to page and fit to width suffers from paging up and down that doesn't take into account the last visible line.<p>I'd like to hear what you do to read long PDF files, like one of the Springer textbooks. Do you use any readers that support bookmarking and/or note taking and sane pagination? I'm wondering if there is a reader that offers an experience comparable to the experience of reading an ebook on a device like a kindle. <comment><USER2> Best I've found is to read PDFs on an iPad Pro using an app such as IAnnotate. Instead of scrolling, I display one page at a time in portrait orientation, and then you can swipe to flip the pages. Highlighting, underlining, and short notes are quick andeasy. You can keep all the documents in Dropbox for convenient synchronizing of notes.

<comment><USER3> A great illustration of how, to read PDFs, you need a letter-size medium (14", usually portrait).

Anyone reading PDFs on a regular monitor should ask themselves why they're putting a portrait peg in a landscape hole.

<comment><USER4> Anyone reading or creating PDFs to begin with should ask why even bother with such a static and outdated format that was made for when it was common to print out documents on paper to read them.

<comment><USER5> I'm not sure what the alternative is supposed to be. ePub is reflowable, fine, but it absolutely chokes on placing images. At least with PDF's, I get the book in a form that was _designed_ by a human being to be read by a human being.

<comment><USER3> What particular image placing complexity do you need? And why?

<comment><USER5> I read a fuckton of papers and non-fiction literature with images. ePub simply isn't useable in these cases. If I'm reading something with no images or graphs or anything, then fine. I'll use ePub, otherwise, no.

<comment><USER3> Alas this doesn't answer my question in any way.

<comment><USER5> It does, actually. No ePub I've seen places the images in between text in a satisfying way. PDF's are designed in a certain layout to account for images and keep that design no matter what I'm viewing it on.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> If it's long and dense material, I print it. Especially if I'm taking notes. Double-sided, three-ring hole punch, put in a binder.

If it's not worth going through that effort, then I either don't read it or I'm scanning it for information.

</comment><comment><USER7> I use Polar Bookshelf (getpolarized.io). It has nice, exportable, annotations as well as incremental reading and spaced repetition (via Anki) support. It's still a bit rough around the edges, but it has a very active pace of development and is open source.

It's not perfect yet, but it's the closest thing I've seen that has a chance of getting there.

<comment><USER8> I was a polar bookshelf user until i discovered emacs pdf-tools mode [https://github.com/politza/pdf-tools](https://github.com/politza/pdf-tools) .

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> Anyone spending a lot of time on pdf's should definitely checkout emacs pdf- tools mode [https://github.com/politza/pdf- tools](https://github.com/politza/pdf-tools) . In the past i was recommending polar app, but emacs pdf-tools trumps in comparison. Emacs pdf-tools mode has lesser memory footprint is much faster and above all does not have restrict any features.

<comment><USER9> Unless I happen to use Windows, where emacs is very slow for me to use comfortably.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> Speaking from friends opinions, reMarkable tablet is the way to go for folx often working with PDFs. Great annotation and highlighting. E-ink display. [https://remarkable.com/store/remarkable](https://remarkable.com/store/remarkable)

<comment><USER11> I wouldn't recommend this. PDF support is horrible, particularly if you have a two column layout file. You cannot correctly zoom in far enough in most cases - in the sense that zoom is possible, just absolutely impractical. Without that, you generally need a magnifying glass to read the text on the display.

Very nice hardware, just awful software.

<comment><USER12> Aren't most books single column layout though? If I have to read a paper I can use a tool such as k2pdfopt[1] and read it on my Kindle.

[1] [https://www.willus.com/k2pdfopt/](https://www.willus.com/k2pdfopt/)

<comment><USER11> I mostly read scientific papers. Quite a good number of them are two column. Haven't come across k2pdfopt before - I'll check it out, thanks!

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> As others have mentioned, a vertical monitor helps.

I use one of these[1] as a second monitor, as I was able to get a surplus one from work for ~$30. The stand it comes with has a 90° swivel, allowing you to rotate it from landscape to portrait orientation (the product images on that page show it in that orientation). It's fantastic for keeping up any long-text materials I need to reference (docs, PDFs, email, spreadsheets, etc). I also use Magnet[2] to make it easy to divide the screen into thirds or halves when I don't need any references up and want to use things that work better in a more standard landscape orientation.

If you want to use a monitor that doesn't have standard support for swiveling, you can get an after-market VESA mount such as this[3] one which supports it. The key to look for on product pages is Swivel being listed in the specs, with a Swivel Range of at least 90° being what's needed to turn it from landscape to portrait mode.

[1] [https://www.dell.com/hr/business/p/dell-p2217h-monitor/pd](https://www.dell.com/hr/business/p/dell-p2217h-monitor/pd)

[2] [https://magnet.crowdcafe.com/](https://magnet.crowdcafe.com/)

[3] [https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=5402](https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=5402)

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for the idea of an after-market swivel. Am going to try this out.

</comment></comment><comment> jay-aye-see-key If you like keyboard centred applications I can't recommend zathura enough, visually it's very minimal with no buttons, definitely not everyone's style.

It supports vim like marks, and powerful movements to manage a lot of pages in a reasonably sane way. My favourite feature is it maintains a jump list so pressing ctrl-o after following a link takes you back to the link.

[https://pwmt.org/projects/zathura/](https://pwmt.org/projects/zathura/)

<comment><USER14> Last time I checked Zathura did not support annotations. This is too bad. It would be a nice program otherwise for reading. I need annotations though.

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> I read and annotate in Emacs mostly, using pdftools + org-noter.

Specifically org-noter can synchronize its buffers with the pdf you're reading. It'll also create a skeleton from an outline, if available in the PDF, and even extract highlights and notes in for you. It's really quite useful tool.

On iOS I read and annotate using PSPDFKit's PDF viewer, which is incredibly featurefull in the free version, but even more so with subscription (too expensive IMHO).

One nice feature it has, for readers of Hebrew and Arabic, is flipping the edge to right or left. Also editing meta data etc.

In respect to your question, also keeping position in file, bookmarks etc and it uses iOS's file picker, so you can store your PDFs anywhere accessible (for me on Nextbloud WebDAV share).

</comment><comment><USER16> A monitor arm with rotation support helps with this! Useful if you're planning to have a long read session, since there is a bit of setup cost (physically rotating the screen and then updating your OS's display settings).

An iPad and an app like GoodNotes or LiquidText is a great alternative.

</comment><comment><USER17> You can convert PDFs to epub, which would allow you to use a reader that supports text resizing/reflow and automatic bookmarking. I use the SensusAccess converter,[1] which seems to be free for personal use.

I also use the BeeLine Reader PDF extension for Chrome,[2] which helps make long documents easier to read. But I'm probably biased, since I'm the founder :)

1: [https://sensusaccess.com/convert-a-file](https://sensusaccess.com/convert- a-file)

2: [https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/beeline-reader- pdf...](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/beeline-reader-pdf- viewer/pmeknoingfjncbdhempgnkdgojickcko?hl=en)

<comment><USER18> How well does the conversion work for arbitrary pdf files?

<comment><USER17> I've found the OCR functionality to be pretty good, but YMMV.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> I haven't used it in a while, but I remember having good experiences with Sumatra.

[https://www.sumatrapdfreader.org/](https://www.sumatrapdfreader.org/)

</comment><comment><USER20> PDF Expert for Mac and iOS is excellent. Really nice UI, great annotation, good performance on big PDFs.

It doesn't save your place, but the bookmark interface works well enough for that.

It's a native app on both OSes.

</comment><comment><USER21> I find a vertically oriented monitor to be a big improvement. A full page fits nicely without scrolling, and i prefer the narrower width for quick reading. Ill sometimes set my laptop on a table sideways when traveling. I also set the color temperature to ~1300K, about as low as i can stand. When i read physical books i usually just need a single bookmark or finger to help jump between sections quickly. To replicate this i just open two copies at once, and then i can make due with whatever pdf reader is on the machine im using without having my workflow broken. If i need to make editing suggestions, konqueror has always met my needs. For my work, if those tools arent enough to communicate edits, then pdf markup isn't the right medium anyway and the document should be edited directly in LaTeX with version control.

</comment><comment><USER22> In order: 1\. Print 2\. Desktop monitor 3\. e-ink reader

No other options work for me.

<comment><USER23> Agreed, print is best when I know I will be referencing the PDF more than once. For me, I think the e-reader will become #2 once I get my hands on a Remarkable 2.

[https://remarkable.com/store/remarkable-2](https://remarkable.com/store/remarkable-2)

<comment><USER24> I've been very intrigued by Remarkable for a while. I'll hold a couple of years more, to see if 1) the company will survive, and 2) wait for the product to become more mature. It seems Remarkable 1 was a proof-of-concept, but 2 is becoming more of a very decent experience.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> I have an old iPad 2 (downgraded to iOS8[1]), where I run KyBook 2. KyBook works great for annotations, highlights, and lets me easily download content from my OPDS server. Kybook 3 is much more featured, but I can't run it on my iPad.

Ocassionaly, I try the reflow mode on KOReader on my Kindle, but it is a hit and miss. Works good for single column PDFs, but adding figures, equations and any more complexity trips it up.

[1]: [https://captnemo.in/blog/2019/08/11/ipad-downgrade- ios-6-8/](https://captnemo.in/blog/2019/08/11/ipad-downgrade-ios-6-8/)

</comment><comment><USER26> For reading books in PDF, I use a Sony DPT-RP1 reader. Its e-ink display can show an entire letter-size page at once, with the original formatting. You can use a stylus to take notes or make highlights; there is no backlight or web browser.

The software has improved since the early releases: for example, you can navigate using a table of contents, if the document has one. I use the dpt- rp1-py program to transfer files; I've never tried Sony's included Digital Paper App.

<comment><USER27> I second the Sony Digital Paper system. I've had mine for 3 years.

I had been looking for e-ink display for years, before the price came down on the Sony product. Completely satisfied. Also, has 10g memory.

Well. There is one thing I wish they would improve. The stylus lets you mark the page, and a search feature lets you search the document for only two hand- drawn marks—asterisk and star.

I use a set of 9 simple margin marks when reading large documents. Wish I could add custom marks.

</comment></comment><comment><USER28> I wrote a program which splits it in pieces and then later proceeds to send me an email daily with a chunk. this idea has been helpful

<comment><USER28> If anybody is interested you may message me at email@example.com

</comment></comment><comment><USER29> I'm a big fan of Documents by Readdle for iOS because of it's annotations.

I read on my iPad, annotations auto sync to google drive, and it generally works great.

[https://apps.apple.com/us/app/documents-by- readdle/id3649018...](https://apps.apple.com/us/app/documents-by- readdle/id364901807)

</comment><comment><USER30> My use-case is large (1000+ page) datasheets. Fortunately these pdfs tend to come with chapter bookmarks. I also search for keywords and/or just look at the section I'm interested in at the time. I'll often print out key pages. I have also found using a mouse with an infinite scroll wheel (e.g., Logitech M500) to be invaluable.

</comment><comment><USER31> I bought a Surface Pro 2 on eBay for ~200 USD a couple of years back. I literally use it only for reading PDFs, and run Xournal on it, so that I can annotate them. I save all PDFs in my Syncthing shared storage, along with their annotations, so that I can share back to a real computer for when I want it.

This way I can comfortably read in a hammock.

</comment><comment><USER32> I've been using DrawBoard PDF on a Surface Pro for my MBA (lots of readings!). It's not perfect, but it's the smoothest experience I've seen thus far, especially in regards to general zooming and panning. You can also customise your own annotation tools in a shortcut bar - very handy.

I wouldn't use it for actual note taking though. The stylus support isn't as good as OneNote (Windows 10 app version), and I haven't had any experience using it with typed notes. I use a separate OneNote notebook for long-form notes in addition to the annotated PDF itself.

Another caveat, sometimes the "text select / highlight" tool doesn't work properly because the PDF reflow has been broken somehow (i.e. you end up highlighting half a page of text when you only wanted a single line). In these instances I switch to the freehand highlight tool instead.

</comment><comment><USER33> Depending on the size of the font, relative to page size, I will read them on a 300dpi kindle. Usually most manuals, especially those typewritten in the 1980s on letter-size pages, can be read this way. _I will only read PDFs on a kindle in one-page-per-screen format._

When the fonts turn out to be too small to read on the Kindle, I will read them on a monitor using the full height of the monitor to display a single page.

If I want to closely study a few pages, and/or make notations on them, I might print them out on paper but only if there are no more than about 8 pages.

I have been known to use a condensed print-out with 4 pages per A4 sheet of paper, but I dislike doing this because it makes the fonts too tiny to be comfortable.

</comment><comment><USER34> I optimize PDFs for my e-reader with k2pdfopt [1]. Fascinating piece of cross- platform software with thousands of command line switches. :)

Another solution that I used to use is cropping them with mutool [2], a helper for the MuPDF reader/library. It was really robust and extremely quick compared to k2pdfopt, but less flexible (which is good in a way).

1: [https://www.willus.com/k2pdfopt/](https://www.willus.com/k2pdfopt/)

2: [https://www.mankier.com/1/mutool#Poster](https://www.mankier.com/1/mutool#Poster)

</comment><comment><USER35> The Onyx Boox line of e-readers are really nice. I use an Onyx Boox Max 2. They come in large screen varieties (close to 13 inches) and have a local WiFi transfer service that makes it easy to transfer files.

</comment><comment><USER36> [https://www.pcworld.com/article/2044412/convert-a-pdf-for- ki...](https://www.pcworld.com/article/2044412/convert-a-pdf-for-kindle- viewing-no-software-required.html)

This post is just under 2 years old but it has helped me since it had the same problem. The kindle app is very user-friendly and also allows you to store the progress of your reading. There are many other applications that offer the same but for personal reasons I prefer kindle.

</comment><comment><USER37> I transfer the PDF to Google drive. This is just an easy way to get them onto my multiple Android devices.

I download the PDF onto the SD card of any device in want to read it on.

I use ebookdroid to read the PDF. It remembers exactly where I was. It options to auto crop, dark more etc.

To read on multiple devices I track every PDF I'm reading in a Google spreadsheet. This also has the nice side effects of tracking all the PDF's I'm reading, and being able to track my reading progress over time.

</comment><comment><USER38> For now I keep using a rather old iPad. This is one of the few use cases it still works well enough for. Reading from my Kobo is definitely easier on the eyes, but annoying otherwise. For that reason, I've been considering a Sony DPT-RP1 or Remarkable 2. Hard to decide between the two. I'm afraid I'll be disappointed with the software and build quality either way...

</comment><comment><USER39> On a Mac, I like Skim.app or Preview. Skim is less aggressive about saving changes right away. I crop the pages, then read a two-page spread in full screen. You can also split the view if you want to refer to a non-adjacent page, though unfortunately only horizontal splits seem to work. Everything's legible enough on a non-retina 21" imac.

</comment><comment><USER40> Current favorite is PDF Expert on an iPad. I read in landscape mode, with 2 pages side-by-side, and hide most of the interface. You can then tap on the right side of the screen to switch to the next page. That makes it pretty close to reading a print book. And you can still highlight text to review later, like any other eBook.

</comment><comment><USER41> One of these [https://remarkable.com/](https://remarkable.com/)

<comment><USER18> How are they? I'm thinking about getting version 2, but I'm not sure.

<comment><USER42> There are production delays due to the pandemic, so few people can answer that (for v2). I have one on order, batch 2. Delivery was supposed to be in July, but now they say September.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER43> I use my iPad Pro with Google Books. It's not the reader with most features (this is sarcasm, it has zero features) but if you only want to read it's super easy to upload the pdf to Google Books and it remembers where you left off if you're using multiple devices.

</comment><comment><USER12> What I miss the most when reading a PDF file is the ability to use dark mode. Acrobat Reader's tablet version supports this, and it works fine on my iPad, but the desktop app only allows me to change the colors manually, and the fonts start to look bad.

</comment><comment><USER44> An experience far better than reading an ebook on a device is printing it. Double sided, scaled to 4 pages per side, that scaling works for me. The device is paper, pagination is quite simple, as is taking notes.

</comment><comment><USER45> Technical paper -> print one sided, so I can take notes on the backsides (and I can't get double-sided printing to work on Linux + Brother laser printer anyhow)

Fiction -> convert with Calibre and email to my Kindle

</comment><comment><USER46> For android there is "Xodo" which has a reading mode, so it can adapt to your phone screen. You can also convert your pdf to epub so set the size and font but it not always work as expected.

</comment><comment><USER47> I have a Surface which I found the best tablet as it was bigger than most.

In the end I gave up buying ebooks and went back to regular books. If there is a pdf I have to read I'll do on my workstation.

</comment><comment><USER48> I display the PDF on my monitor screen and I take notes on an iPad. I usually create a note page for each of the chapter I read. Alternatively, you could take note on a sheet of paper.

</comment><comment><USER49> This is why I bought a Kindle Fire. That is the only reason I needed a tablet which is why I postponed it for several years. And indeed this is the only thing I use it for.

<comment><USER50> The Sony Digital Paper and Ratta Supernote series also worth checking out. Remarkable is another option but the UX/HCI is horrible.

</comment></comment><comment><USER51> Drawboard PDF, on windows platform. I found it's experience better compare to other pdf readers. Ease of use of annotation tool is one of highlighting feature.

</comment><comment><USER52> Like others, I import mine to Goodnotes on my iPad then use Apple Pencil to annotate / mark-up etc. Can also export in whatever format (inc. PDF) if I want.

</comment><comment><USER53> PDF Reader by Xodo is the best and fastest reader/annotator I've used on Windows. Excellent with touch screen. Faster than Adobe Reader or Acrobat.

</comment><comment> nils-m-holm I would either print it or read it on a monitor in upright (portrait) configuration. MuPDF works fine for me. I like the vi-like controls.

</comment><comment><USER54> Depending on the margins length, reading on a kindle can be pretty good. If there are diagrams and tables that won't be convenient.

</comment><comment><USER55> I bought a Surface Go and found out Drawboard PDF to comfortably read large books and annotate them with the stylus.

</comment><comment><USER56> Foxit or ReadEra

</comment><comment><USER57> Edge browser.

<comment><USER23> Due to the built-in OneNote support, Edge is my go-to for PDFs! It also doesn't suffer from Chrome's limitation for the number of PDFs that can be open at once. Edge enables my questionable habit of depth-first reading :)

I tried new Chromium-based Edge and the new PDF experience is significantly worse imo. I downgraded and will stick with classic Edge as long as I can.

</comment></comment><comment><USER58> With whatever tool I can use. I loved Mac OSX's preview but that's not available on other OSes sadly

</comment><comment><USER59> iPad Mini + Apple Pencil + GoodNotes. I got this setup specifically for reading research papers, but I end up using it a lot for personal reading and sheet music.

</comment><comment><USER60> Nowadays I do copy them to kindle and read there.

</comment><comment><USER61> ipad pro 12.9" in portrait mode. its the reason I originally bought it. I refer to a LOT of PDFs throughout the day.

</comment><comment><USER62> i've been pretty happy with foxit mobile pdf on android. on linux evince seems to do just about everything i want.

</comment><comment><USER63> Books on iPad is the best option for me

</comment><comment><USER64> I prefer to read long PDF on my Kindle

</comment><comment><USER65> I don't.

</comment><comment><USER66> try two pages side by side

</comment><comment><USER67> iPad |> GoodReader |> text_to_speech

Also, Microsoft Edge browser has the best built-in text_to_speech feature. And it reads PDFs too.

</comment><comment><USER68> iOS books</comment>


Where Did the Fear of Poisoned Halloween Candy Come From? (2013) - <AUTHOR> https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smithsonianmag/where-did-the-fear-of-poisoned-halloween-candy-come-from-822302/?no-ist <comment><USER2> My kids are very aware that Halloween candy may be poisoned. Every year, after they finish trick-or-treating they will lay the buckets of candy on the table for inspection[1]. I will then taste several packs to make sure they are safe. If I do not show any side effects we conclude that the candy eaten was good. The kids wait patiently for a couple of weeks as I repeat the process and certify that all the candy they brought was indeed safe. Then I serve the kids salad.

[1] [https://instagram.com/p/BMQMFqAjuKr/](https://instagram.com/p/BMQMFqAjuKr/)

<comment><USER3> This actually just sounds like a really elaborate "tax" on your children's stash. If you fear the candy is actually dangerous, then perhaps you'd be better off just buying some from the store and distributing it to your kids, that ways they don't run the risk of loosing their parent.

<comment><USER4> Clearly his post was humorous and intended to poke fun at people's paranoia of poisoned candy.

<comment><USER5> Actually I think OP is implying he just eats all of his kids' Halloween candy and serves them salad instead.

<comment><USER6> Which is exactly what my mom did, minus the salad. Now I eat all the candy instead of handing it out. Thanks mom.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Despite the constant fear mongering of "stranger danger", turns out most people don't actually want to kill you.

One of the things I like about the sharing economy (Uber, Airbnb, etc) is that we're slowly being reminded that it's okay to trust our neighbors, despite the constant attempts by the media to spread fear.

<comment><USER8> Except when you neighbors are the ones renting out the apartment next to you on air bnb, and you have drunk noisy people bumping around next door all the time.

<comment><USER9> I don't see how it is different from having noisy drunk people as your permanent neighbors. Ultimately, your non-airbnb permanent neighbors are just as much of a stranger to you, with certain specific exceptions.

<comment><USER10> Your permanent neighbors tend to be noisy and drunk occasionally, people renting an airbnb are on holidays and likely to be noisy and drunk, then a week later you'll get a new batch likely to be noisy and drunk.

<comment><USER11> But does anyone oppose reasonable rules for time-of-day-based noise levels in an apartment or neighborhood? It really doesn't matter if your permanent neighbors or transient guests are the ones making the noise, either should cause the property owner/renter to get fined/evicted.

<comment><USER12> _> But does anyone oppose reasonable rules for time-of-day-based noise levels in an apartment or neighborhood?_

Even if this were a viable solution, it does nothing for the lost sleep during the months (or in may case, full year) it takes to establish these rules and get them consistently enforced.

Also, it's not a viable solution. There are a couple huge problems.

First, evicting _owners_ is no small thing. In fact, neither is evicting renters. In fact, neither is _fining_ owners/renters for sums of money that would actually cause a change in behavior. These are all very expensive options of last resort that are likely to end in lawyer fees.

Second, with notable exceptions, HOAs/land lords dislike playing mediator/enforcer (and for good reason -- see below). So rules are hard to make and harder to enforce.

Third, there's a real cost imposed on any community that tries to legislate "be a normal neighbor". If you want an enumeration of the potential downsides of this approach, talk to anyone who has had a bad experience with an over- zealous HOA.

You could try to make and enforce a set of rules in a way that solves the problem but doesn't drive normal neighbors insane with pedantic/vindictive rule-violation-reporting. But it turns out that's a rather hard set of rules to come up with/fairly enforce. It's just much easier and, frankly, more effective, to ban airbnb et al.

I'm not opposed to apartment sharing on principle, and in fact my personal political philosophy should bias me toward defending the practice. But my actual experience makes me wary of buildings/neighborhoods that allow airbnb. If airbnb doesn't figure out a solution to this problem, they're going to face increasing resistance.

<comment><USER11> > Even if this were a viable solution, it does nothing for the lost sleep > during the months (or in may case, full year) it takes to establish these > rules and get them consistently enforced.

I don't understand that argument. It might make months to establish a ban or effective enforcement of temporary tenants as well. Obviously that sucks, but I'm just trying to think about which rule would be more effective and reasonable.

> First, evicting owners is no small thing. In fact, neither is evicting > renters. In fact, neither is fining owners/renters for sums of money that > would actually cause a change in behavior. These are all very expensive > options of last resort that are likely to end in lawyer fees.

Again, I don't understand. Those are the exact same options we have to disincentivize owners/renters taking in temporary tenants. What alternative enforcement mechanism are you suggesting?

It seems like you're focusing on the difficulties in enforcing my suggestion without recognizing that literally the exact same difficulties exist in enforcing your suggestion.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Seems that Wikipedia is a better starting point:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoned_candy_myths](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoned_candy_myths)

I would date my understanding of the myth to be from 1980, informed by a friend's mum, so the myth was oral tradition by then, across the pond in the UK. So a handful of years after 1974 the meme had spread.

This had morphed into an 'only in America' story for those of us outside the U.S. - we believed this happened on a regular Halloween basis in America and was part of 'trick or treating' (itself more American than British). Imagine the image of 'gun mad' America harbouring such 'psychos' in the community, this was easy to do if you had never been to the U.S.

The idea of a razor blade in some type of sweet did do the rounds, again in the 'made in America' context, with the myth spreading verbally. As children adults would tell you but you took reassurance that there were no crazies like that where you lived, again, only in America.

Sweets given to you as a child could be of variable quality. Sweets with a clove in the middle do exist, I think at the time I would have preferred the razor blade option, cyanide would have tasted better. Sweets kept past their sell by date might not be too good either, old folks could hand you these and expect you to enjoy them. So 'trick or treat' was actually part of the deal with all sweets offered by neighbours and other people you were to meet. It was therefore imaginable for the American myth to be true.

<comment><USER14> > This had morphed into an 'only in America' story for those of us outside the > U.S. - we believed this happened on a regular Halloween basis in America

As an outsider I never got the impression that this actually happened/happens in America, more that this is some strange fear American's have.

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> I remember being a kid (8 or 9) and sitting down with my friend at his house with his parents and going through all our candy together to check for danger signs. Sure enough, there was a single-wrapped Reese's peanut-butter cup with a hole in the wrapper, and we opened it up and found a sewing needle stuck inside the peanut-butter cup. (I don't think I'm making this up, but memories being what they are, this might have been a story that was told to me. I do remember vividly the breaking of the peanut-butter cup into two pieces and the needle falling on the table, though, so I'm inclined to believe the memory.)

This would have been in the late 1980s. So, in my case, the fear did not come from the media, but from a personal experience.

So rather than saying, "this never happens, it's just a myth", we should be saying, "this can happen, and let's take steps to protect ourselves".

Anyone remember the Tylenol Poisonings[0]? That was real, inspired copycats, and led to tamper-resistant and tamper-evident packaging. Tragic, but at least we learned from the tragedy.

While it's true that not _everyone_ is out to get you, at the same time it's foolish to think that _no-one_ is out to get you.

[0] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Tylenol_murders](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Tylenol_murders)

<comment><USER16> Believe it or chewing a sewing needle don't actually kills you; but sure you can be afraid of anything and still get validation of that fear; you know a lot of people die from heavy objects falling from buildings? You should protect from that too, it has happened before so clearly you should take steps to protect yourself (and it has happened a lot more than candy poisoning), perhaps always using a construction helmet would be a nice first step. And traffic accidents, so many pedestrians die from car accidents that its weird we all don't have personal airbags around our torsos and heads; at the end of the day being alive its the biggest risk factor of dying and the only sure way to not die is to be already death.

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> It's been going on longer than the article suggests. When I went trick-or- treating in the 1960s, my parents did not allow us to eat anything that was home-made or not in a sealed package, because they were worried about deliberate poisoning.

Around 1972 or 73 on Halloween, some neighborhood kid found a razor blade in an apple. Turned out he'd inserted it himself as a prank.

A lot of things have much earlier roots than can be found with searches of documents.

<comment><USER18> Back in 2nd grade my friend got a small snickers bar at school that he discovered had a hole in the wrapper and a same size/shape hole also extending further into the candy bar. I recall it being a small squarish kind of hole, you could sort of see it going into the candy bar.

No idea if he did it himself or not, but he never admitted it. It could easily have been some part of a toy that poked into it.

After school we went to his house and cut it to pieces with a knife in his kitchen. It was an exciting adventure, we were eager to see what might be inside. Never found anything, though I'm not sure what we were expecting to find.

We didn't eat it either. But it did freak me out enough as a kid that for awhile after I would check for candy wrapper breaches.

<comment><USER19> Sounds like a pencil stabbed it.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> Fears aside, I suspect that the larger tragedy is that Halloween treats are now mostly sugary candy and chocolate. I remember a time when there was much more variety. I also remember how quickly things changed after the first (likely unsubstantiated) scare in my community.

<comment><USER21> The only variety that I can remember as a kid, was the house on the next street where they gave out Chick Tracts instead of candy.

<comment><USER22> It seems a little counterintuitive to hand out anti-halloween material to trick-or-treaters. I mean, it's still observing Halloween even if it's not candy you're giving out.

<comment><USER23> Proselytizers gonna proselytize.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> And then there's this headline today on my local news website...

Candy laced with bath salts poses risk this Halloween

[http://www.wral.com/candy-laced-with-bath-salts-poses- risk-t...](http://www.wral.com/candy-laced-with-bath-salts-poses-risk-this- halloween/17066038/)

<comment><USER3> No one is spending their money to give your kids free drugs on Halloween. I saw a similar story from the local news channel about marijuana edibles being passed out. As the original article says, poisoned candy is not really a thing. I'd be more concerned about your kids being hit by a drunk (or distracted) driver on Halloween than eating something poisoned.

<comment><USER25> Someone gave my brother a marijuana cookie one time when he was about nine, but it wasn't on Halloween. Seems like giving out edibles from your own house would be an easy way to get a mob of pitchfork-weilding parents on your lawn.

<comment><USER5> The professionally produced kind are all labeled on the actual food surface with some sort of impression or imprint that's unmistakable unless you're completely innocent of any knowledge of the world.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> If anyone knows of a good general technique to persuade a person that their fear of something is overblown, I'd be interested in seeing a link.

In my experience, trying to do this results in anger.

<comment><USER27> I find the same attitude has now permiated American politics. You can say something as neutral as, "I'm very cautious of getting riled up by overblown narratives that lack factual evidence or are presented in an obviously inflammatory manner" and suddenly you're the anti-Christ.

<comment><USER28> Right, the second you are skeptical of their "source" you are the enemy. No room for doubt.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER29> So the answer here is, apparently, "Dunno." I could imagine an article on this topic that would be valuable, but I don't think this is it.

</comment><comment><USER30> If you're going asking for a 'trick or treat', you have to expect as many 'tricks' as 'treats'. That's part of the 'fun' of it.

The donors are not forced to give you 'treats' every time. If you can't accept that, don't go out asking.

</comment><comment><USER31> If you live in a society where credulous people will accept stories like this, it's no wonder people wouldn't know or spend time with their neighbors. I can't help but see it as one grain of sand on a bigger beach.

</comment><comment><USER32> Pretty sure it came from movie and TV scriptwriters deciding that poisoned candy was a wonderfully scary trope for Halloween time.</comment>


Ask HN: I'm an amateur/hobbyist programmer. What language should I learn next? - <AUTHOR> I'm a self-taught coder and am looking to challenge myself by learning a new programming language. As a kid, I taught myself to code in Logo and BASIC. As an adult, I use Python and JavaScript for personal projects and scripting repetitive tasks.
What should I learn next? I know I could deepen my Python and JavaScript knowledge, but I want to use a new and unfamiliar language to fuel my learning and curiosity.
What would you recommend in 2017? <comment><USER2> If I had to pick one: Racket because it is an ecosystem that has a lot of focus on people learning, it has good tooling, it's batteries included, and more...by which I mean out of the box there's logic programming languages and statically typed languages and declarative languages and Algol 60. In addition, the community tends to row in the same direction and one of those directions is good documentation most of which is all in one place [http://docs.racket-lang.org](http://docs.racket-lang.org)

But I'm not really inclined to pick just one: For something more old school, Common Lisp but to me, it is a bit less accessible by which I mean that the community is much more focused on professional programming. But it is where a lot of other languages have drawn ideas. Also Forth, J, Processing, C, SML, Lua, Smalltalk, Ruby, R and Clojure because they are cool.

Good luck.

</comment><comment><USER3> How much JS do you know? Do you know ES6? Same with python.

If you feel you _really_ understand those languages you could learn a statically typed language. Something like Java might be a good next step.

Another idea is to learn a Javascript framework. React might be a good choice if you're into web front end.

<comment><AUTHOR> I'm far more knowledgeable and comfortable with Python than JS. Your question about ES6 is well taken. Diving deeper into that might meet my goals.

<comment><USER3> If you're looking for a great start point you can try this: [https://github.com/verekia/js-stack-from- scratch](https://github.com/verekia/js-stack-from-scratch)

This guide is great. I feel a lot more comfortable working with JS after using it.

</comment></comment></comment><comment> clark-kent Try a different paradigm like functional programming (read the SCIP book), or learn Haskell, Elixir.

If you love Javascript, try getting into Node and one of the Javascript frameworks.

Try doing a sizable side project in your favorite language.

</comment><comment><USER4> Pick up one machine learning like tensorflow, h20, spark.

Consider integrating with Mobile App ( ios ). You can leverage python for backend API for the mobile app

</comment><comment><USER5> Looking at your blog I guess your next step shouldn't be learning another language, but to learn how to ship.

<comment><AUTHOR> Tell me more...

<comment><USER5> Non native speaker here. I just tried to decipher "Tell me more". Does this mean "I am seriously interested to hear more" or is it more a sarcastic "I already know that."?

<comment><AUTHOR> Not sarcastic. I want to hear more, because I'm not entirely sure what you're referring to, and I'd rather not guess.

EDIT: My personal blog is not really the point of my question, though, so I'd really rather you contact me separately about that.

<comment><USER5> On your blog there is somewhere the line "My ~/project folder is full of half finished web apps ...".

The knowledge of some computer languages alone isn't useful if you don't apply this knowledge somewhere. For example building stuff. But building something requires more then just knowledge of languages. So without those other knowledge your computer language experience is rather worthless for you.

Also you can't really evaluate the dis-/advantages of a language when you never ship something.

If you just want to automate some private stuff the above isn't true of course, but then Python and JS is sufficient anyway.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Learn C.

Knowing C opens many doors to you, both professionally and intellectually.</comment>


Coal Cares about You - <AUTHOR> http://coalcares.org/

<comment><USER2> Is this supposed to be ironical? "Puff Puff" inhalers for asthmatic children because "Coal Cares"? That's gonna leave a mark.</comment>


How We Derive Context from Big Data - <AUTHOR> http://blog.urx.com/urx-blog/2015/11/6/how-urx-derives-context-from-big-data <comment><USER2> Well done for the engineering feat here. Parsing Wikipedia at scale isn't easy.

Very surprised that they don't mention DBpedia though ([http://wiki.dbpedia.org/](http://wiki.dbpedia.org/)) or discuss how they navigate through some big NLP challenges with Wikipedia, namely that many edits are made by bots.

<comment><AUTHOR> DBpedia is a great, structured representation of Wikipedia. Agreed, there are many challenges, NLP being one. I think you'll like our other blog posts [http://blog.urx.com/urx-blog/2015/7/28/named-entity- recognit...](http://blog.urx.com/urx-blog/2015/7/28/named-entity-recognition- examining-the-stanford-ner-tagger?rq=ner)

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> Calculating context on mobile is a huge win for content providers, who can use the context to create deep links into other apps.

Example: I'm reading an article about James Bond, and ideally the phone can calculate that there's a new Bond movie, and I'm near a theater, and I'm free on Thursday night, and then create a link to buy tickets.

<comment><AUTHOR> Great example! This is the exact problem URX is solving: empowering content providers to present their products within meaningful contexts.</comment></comment>


Ask HN: Best resources for first time campers? - crypto-jeronimo <comment><AUTHOR> Have you seen Outdoors Stackexchange [1]? It has questions and answers on a variety of topics and although it might not have a definitive guide to camping for first timers, it definitely has plenty of questions and answers that would help.

And the great thing is, you can ask questions too!

[1]: [https://outdoors.stackexchange.com/questions](https://outdoors.stackexchange.com/questions)

<comment> crypto-jeronimo I hadn't, thanks!</comment></comment>


Google open sources gVisor, a sandboxed container runtime - <AUTHOR> https://www.zdnet.com/article/google-open-sources-gvisor-a-sandboxed-container-runtime/ <comment><USER2> Sounds promising, but the readme says it can't currently be used with elasticsearch, nginx, or postgres. That's going to rule out alot of environments.</comment>


What Is Eclipse Dirigible? - <AUTHOR> https://medium.com/eclipse-dirigible/what-is-eclipse-dirigible-dcc28d11cb5e <comment><AUTHOR> Eclipse Dirigible is an open source project that provides development tools (Web IDE) and a Java-based runtime environment for building and running Business Applications in the Cloud. Dirigible provides the shortest possible turnaround time during application development and boosts the developers' productivity with modeling tools, application templates, and an In-System development experience ...</comment>


Tee Shirt/Collared Shirt logo printing? - <AUTHOR>

<comment><USER2> We get our logo printed on American Apparel T-shirts by QRST's in Somerville, MA.

<comment><USER3> +1 on QRST's. Quality company. And if you're in the area, they also deliver to local colleges.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> I have used this store in a previous project (about 2 years ago): <http://www.casamariaint.com/>

A bit expensive, but the shirt quality is great, and the logo came out perfect. FYI, I ordered the model #8527 for the guys and #8526 for the girls (under Golf Shirts, page 2)

UPDATE: I forgot to mention -- The reason we ended up choosing this particular store was because they did not have a minimum quantity requirement (that's why they're more expensive)

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> Does anyone have any recommendations for getting tee shirts or collared shirts which have their company's logo printed/embroidered? We're going to an 'industry trade show' and want to look sharp.

<comment><USER5> Doxa Print does some amazing print work on very fine American Apparel t-shirts. I don't think they embroider, but that looks dumb anyways :P. Just get a slick design made, and have them do it. It's very high quality.

<http://doxaprint.com/>

They're in southern California.</comment></comment>


Nestle says it will cut sugar in chocolate by 40% - throwaway-hn123 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38167241 <comment><AUTHOR> What will they replace the reduced mass with, to bulk up the product so it doesn't appear smaller?

My guess is it sure as hell won't be actual cocoa :/ [1]

[1] [https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:9ihtAG...](https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:9ihtAGGkUggJ:https://www.ft.com/content/9e71ebe2-ab56-11e6-9cb3-bb8207902122+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=firefox-b)

<comment><USER2> My wife's standard approach to any cake or confectionary recipe is to immediately half the listed quantity of sugar. Apparently this is common amongst pastry-chefs in catering and doesn't appear to affect the final result other than being a bit paler after cooking.

We even made half-sugar doughnuts recently which were still delicious ( no topping or filling needed ).

So I reckon Nestle will just produce a slightly less bulky confectionery, for the same price of course.

<comment><USER3> Me and my girlfriend (we both really, really like cooking) do that with a lot of recipes that involve sugar. It does affect the texture, but I think it often improves the taste.

There are things that _ought_ to be sugary (like thick syrups used for preserving), but most pastries, jams, jellies and deserts in general need surprisingly less sugar than recent cookbooks would imply. Adding just enough sugar to take the edge off of bitterness or sourness ends up being more rewarding than cramming everything full of sugar to the point where all you feel is something odd next to the sweetness.

<comment><USER4> There are safety concerns when changing any recipe that will be preserved. The sugar in jams and jellies also acts as a preservative after they are opened.

<comment> matt-attack Curious how sugar is a preservative? I would have thought it was food for bacteria.

<comment><USER5> Honey is pretty much nothing but sugar yet absolutely no bacteria can grow in it - there's basically a point where there's too much of it.

<comment><USER6> Honey also contains a small amount of hydrogen peroxide.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Here is patent [1].

The key idea is to add a glucosyltransferase from Lactobacillus, which consumes simple sugars and produces complex sugars.

It is not clear to me that this will be beneficial for human health.

[1] [https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/detail.jsf;jsessionid...](https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/detail.jsf;jsessionid=71B661B463561D0C0F31EE2E222E7487.wapp1nC?docId=WO2016173929&recNum=10&maxRec=3456&office=&prevFilter=&sortOption=Pub+Date+Desc&queryString=nestec+sugar&tab=PCTDescription)

<comment><USER8> This! Sugar at least has known side effects. :-/

<comment><USER9> > Lactobacillus

Chances are, you're already eating them in dairy.

It's not like we understand the 'side effects' of most things we eat. Any plant or fruit or fermented product you eat is made up of thousands of compounds, almost none of which have been tested for their effects in isolation.

(But, you know, I'm pretty confident candy bars are _bad for you_. This change will not make them any better.)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> You should definitely boycott Nestle. They are for example aggressively pushing baby milk replacements for newborns in developing countries: more info here:[http://www.babymilkaction.org/nestlefree#evidence](http://www.babymilkaction.org/nestlefree#evidence)

"Nestlé promotes its baby milk around the world with the claim such as it is the 'natural start', 'gentle start' and 'protects' babies. In truth, babies fed on formula are more likely to become sick than breastfed babies and, in conditions of poverty, more likely to die. Nestlé has promised to drop the 'natural start' claim by mid-2015 following pressure from the campaign, but not the others."

Also, they have been calling for privatization and taking away water as a basic human right, instead wanting to sell people water in bottles.

Here's a list of Nestle products to boycott: [http://www.babymilkaction.org/nestle-boycott- list](http://www.babymilkaction.org/nestle-boycott-list)

It contains some surprising ones, like San Pellegrino which is considered to be a high quality water.

<comment><USER11> I can follow that list no problem except for nespresso. The quality bang for the buck you get with those is so much better than the garbage that passes for coffee in a k-cup.

<comment> semi-extrinsic No, it's not. If you actually do the math, the Nespresso coffee pods are so expensive per cup as compared to buying ground or whole espresso beans in tins, that a Nespresso machine with pods vs a proper Rancilio Silvia with Illy espresso breaks even in a little more than 12 months. Even though the Rancilio is $650+.

Also, the Nespresso pods are pretty bad on the environment, since they're made from aluminium (energy intensive process) but can't be recycled since they're full of spent coffee.

<comment><USER11> Most of what I'm paying for is the convenience. I have a machine in my office that I can hit a button on and get a shot out very quickly. I have a similar Jura machine at home that starts with beans and pulls a shot. The Nespresso shots are almost always better.

<comment> semi-extrinsic Yeah, you don't want an "automatic" machine that does grinding, tamping and pulling the shot. It just doesn't work well, they don't make good espresso IMO. Even the ones I've used at various work locations, that cost thousands of dollars, are pretty bad.

What you need is a manual (aka semi-automatic) machine, and a proper grinder (I have the Ascaso I2 and like it a lot) or even just pre-ground Illy, it's not that bad. Learning how to grind, tamp etc. takes about a month. From then it's pure espresso magic.

For extra hipster points, buy a _really_ manual machine, aka lever machine:

[https://www.seattlecoffeegear.com/brands/la- pavoni](https://www.seattlecoffeegear.com/brands/la-pavoni)

<comment><USER12> the hipster points are irrelevant for the la pavoni, they are just straight up beautiful machines.

<comment><USER13> Or you could buy this, plus a weekend in Hawaii:

[http://yourcoffee.arcada.vilkas.fi/WebRoot/Arcada/Shops/your...](http://yourcoffee.arcada.vilkas.fi/WebRoot/Arcada/Shops/yourcoffee/50B5/D1E1/C4B5/3101/4983/0A00/00F3/AEA0/Znaki_zodiaka.JPG)

<comment><USER12> OK, I love turkish coffee so i may be picking up one of those at some point.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> Does this faster-dissolving sugar have a higher glycemic index, and if so, how does that affect glycemic load?

<comment><AUTHOR> This is a great point. If the glycemic index has drastically increased, then this could actually be worse for your blood sugar levels than the original quantity of 'actual' sugar.

<comment><USER15> Unless you have diabetes markers, glycemic index is almost entirely irrelevant, it's like people that avoid gluten/lactose who aren't intolerant. Studies that made links to glycemic load to overall health have largely since been found invalid.

example of newer studies: [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4370345/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4370345/)

<comment><USER16> Thank you for that link. That study period of 5 weeks is not nearly enough to evaluate high versus low glycemic index diets upon metabolic syndrome. All the study showed was no _acute_ impacts (good to know, but not conclusive enough for prescriptive direction). After finding that out from the study linked to, I tried to find a study that tracked glycemic index in meals of participants over 1-5 years, but couldn't come up with any, so if you know of any to link to, I would really appreciate it.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> Pretty clever way of reducing the amount, by increasing the rate by which it dissolves. Sounds like a win for both the business side(cheaper costs), and consumer(less sugar consumption).

</comment><comment><USER18> DouxMatok uses a different principle for the same result, of covering a particle with sugar molecules in a way that increases the sugar surface and thus increase sweetness by 30%-100%.

[http://www.foodnavigator.com/Market-Trends/Flavour- delivery-...](http://www.foodnavigator.com/Market-Trends/Flavour-delivery- particle-can-cut-sugar-by-half-and-is-cheaper-than-sugar)

I'm curious if both methods could be combined.

</comment><comment> hash-set Nestle and Hershey have already turned their products into nothing but shit, so to keep trying to push the envelope sounds exactly like how cable thought they could jam more commercials into the programming and nobody would notice. These stupid MBAs all get their educations from the same few idiots, I guess. Pretty sad that business circa 2016 is just "another pickle from the jar" tricks instead of adding real value into products.

<comment><USER19> I disagree that there is no value added here. Sugar consumption has a public health impact comparable to smoking, alcohol, and air pollution. Even as an individual I seek out things with the least amount of sugar possible.

Just ask anyone who switched from regular soda to diet how much value they found by fooling their taste buds.

</comment></comment><comment><USER20> My initial reaction was "Great!", then i shared this with my partner and her response was

"Fuck nestle. They are just saying what people want to hear"

Thinking more critically, I share her concern. The way they've been buying water away from local towns makes me think they just need a positive PR spin to distract us from the real issues.

* [http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/09/23/boycott-nestle-water...](http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/09/23/boycott-nestle-water_n_12157042.html)

<comment><USER21> I don't get this outrage over Nestle bottle water. The amount of water that is bottled for human consumption must be minuscule compared with many other usages like household, agricultural and industrial.

Furthermore, it is not like the water is wasted. It is actual consumed by humans who live not too far from the place where the water was bottled.

<comment><USER22> At the risk of continuing off-topic, the "outrage" over Nestle bottled water in this case was due to Nestle starting to draw large amounts of water at about 1/100th the residential water cost from an region under mandatory water restrictions due to drought. Blame Nestle and/or the local government, but it does seem short-sighted and suboptimal.

In general, though, bottled water isn't consumed close to its generation point: it's packaged in plastic bottles and trucked away. There's an environmental cost. And many of the bottles that _are_ consumed locally contain the same water people could have gotten straight from the tap, so the environmental cost is lower but more pointless.

<comment><USER23> There is no drought in Southern Ontario. They are drawing well water, not residential water. A farmer could draw that much water and pay absolutely nothing.

<comment><USER24> Doesn't a farmer feed the water back into the well, in a manner of speaking?

<comment><USER20> Doesn't a farmer feed us all? That water goes into making products that are likely much better for us than Kit Kats.

<comment><USER24> I guess that depends on the farmer...

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> Does anybody care what a company this size says anymore? What relation does PR spin like this even have to reality? They'll do whatever they need to do to make money and say whatever half-truths make them sound good. This is a non- story.

</comment><comment><USER26> Read the news with a grain of salt (ahem), as sugar prices have gone up 2x in the past year. [http://www.indexmundi.com/commodities/?commodity=sugar&month...](http://www.indexmundi.com/commodities/?commodity=sugar&months=120)

<comment><USER27> Ah, the old "follow the money" advice still holds true.

</comment></comment><comment><USER28> The USDA Foreign Agricultural Service recently released its biannual report on sugar, "Sugar: World Markets and Trade".

> Global production for 2016/17 is up 5 million metric tons (raw value) to 171 > million as gains in Brazil and the European Union and most of the top 25 > producers more than offset declines in India and Thailand. Global raw sugar > monthly average prices, after falling for over a year and bottoming at less > than 11 cents per pound in August 2015, have been trending higher to near 23 > cents in October 2016. Despite high prices, consumption is forecast at a > record 174 million tons, drawing stocks down to the lowest level since > 2010/11\. The global sugar deficit narrows from 6.7 million tons in 2015/16 > to a forecast 2.6 million.

That the price of sugar has doubled over the past year amid shrinking stocks probably explains why Nestle is interested in cutting their use of the ingredient.

[1] [https://apps.fas.usda.gov/psdonline/circulars/Sugar.pdf](https://apps.fas.usda.gov/psdonline/circulars/Sugar.pdf)

</comment><comment><USER29> There isn't any technical information in the article, but what does "a way to structure sugar differently" mean? Do they mean change it from being sucrose to some other compound?

<comment><USER30> There is a link to the Nestle announcement in the article. Doesn't contain much more information but it does say:

> Using only natural ingredients, Nestlé researchers have found a way to > structure sugar differently.

> Our scientists have discovered a completely new way to use a traditional, > natural ingredient.

No link to the patent application that I can find though.

: /

[http://www.nestle.com/media/news/nestle-research- discovery-s...](http://www.nestle.com/media/news/nestle-research-discovery- sugar-reduction)

<comment><USER31> :( I mean, isn't technically sucralose (splenda) just a "different way to structure sugar" in that they tack a few chlorines on it?

<comment><USER32> And "natural" can mean a whole lot of things.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER33> > Its scientists altered the structure of sugar so that it dissolves more > quickly.

So... powdered sugar?

<comment><USER34> News articles are saying that the sugar will be "hollow", so there's as much sugar particles that will reach your tongue but they will dissolve very quickly and be less dense.

Anyone has more information on the science of it?

<comment><USER35> That's actually a great idea.

It's crazy to think that we eat food that's densely packed with sugar, yet only a fraction of it gets in contact with the tongue.

I wonder if they could design a beverage where the sugar somehow stays on the outside.

<comment><USER34> I guess that's why we drink fizzy and creamy drinks so much!

Personally I think that the future is in manipulating the taste buds themselves. Did you ever hear about the "magic fruits" Synsepalum dulcificum? It's a fruit that has molecules that binds to the tongue. The result is that anything sour will taste like sugar. Lemons will taste like candy.

Pop a pill before drinking a bitter non-sugary drink and there you go, you are drinking sugar taste without any sugar!

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER36> >> Its scientists altered the structure of sugar so that it dissolves more quickly.

Something tells me this is going to be like turning cocaine into crack. Apart from saving them money, I bet you find people selling their grandma's TV for a go on another KitKat.

And yes; boycott Nestle for many reasons, mostly because all of their products are terrible for you or other people.

</comment><comment><USER37> They need to fix the taste, all their candy bars taste like nothing but sugar these days.

<comment><USER38> I wonder how much of that is due to "arms race" marketing and focus groups.

The current generations... our taste buds are shot, we're accustomed to so much sugar in things and HUGE portions. You can have sugar in smaller portions (like Coke, when it came out in 1886 was sold in a 6.5 oz size), and you could probably have larger healthier portions... but the mix is pretty unhealthy.

Current generations are kind of ruined... taught to look for bigger and bigger candy bars, trained to like sweeter and sweeter things... how do we keep these toxic preferences from harming future generations? And... what can we do for ourselves? Cutting subsidies on sugar producers... seems like Step 1.

<comment><USER39> You know McDonald's 'kids mean' burger? With the 'small fries'?

That was McDonald's 'original burger' :)

Everything beyond that is 'super size'.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER40> Sugar is the cheapest ingredient. Why would they replace it by more expensive ones?

<comment><USER41> You might be able to sell more volume if it says '40% less sugar same great taste!'

</comment></comment><comment> Jean-Philipe I always wondered why there's so much sugar in everything. All of my friends, relatives and people I know think that everything is too sweet - cookies, cake, soup, lemonade, ice cream, you name it. Am I weird? Do people actually like the sugar?

I just remember, one dad at a kids party once approached me and asked me "do you know why these cupcakes are so damn delicious? I've put TWICE the sugar that was on the recipe!" so yeah, I guess there are people who actually like it sweet... does anyone know of any data on this?

</comment><comment><USER42> Eh, I remember the days when if I wanted less sugar, I'd just use less sugar, and the word "engineering" and "patenting" wouldn't be right for the food discussion.

</comment><comment><USER43> Is this just called dark chocolate? Kidding aside, I'm hoping they don't replace it with some sort of chemical sweetener, I'm always suspicious of sugar replacements.

<comment><USER44> you realize every sweetener is a chemical, right? What if they replace sugar with sugar? There are tons of types of sugars that can replace one another. Lots of sweeteners actually come from plants and microbes.

</comment></comment><comment><USER45> Ruhlman's "Ratio" is a good approach to this

My peeve with the book is that he (IMHO correctly) tells the reader to use weights not volumes for dry ingredients, then in the entire rest of the book seems to promote/use volume measures.

[https://www.amazon.com/Ratio-Simple-Behind-Everyday- Cooking/...](https://www.amazon.com/Ratio-Simple-Behind-Everyday- Cooking/dp/1416571728)

</comment><comment><USER46> The strawberry is perhaps the best evidence that the physical layout of sugars matters tremendously. A fresh strawberry tastes incredibly sweet. But blend up a pound of those strawberries and it tastes wretched without added sugar. Since the strawberry has most of its sweetness on the outside, it tastes fine when you're biting into it directly but the blending exposes more of the tart inside.

</comment><comment><USER47> Is this to cover up their child labor palm oil situation? [https://www.google.nl/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/law/2016/nov...](https://www.google.nl/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/law/2016/nov/30/kelloggs- unilever-nestle-child-labour-palm-oil-wilmar-amnesty?client=safari)

</comment><comment><USER48> Sugar in food has functions other than sweetening, I wonder how this will affect texture, mouthfeel, moisture and shelf life.

</comment><comment><USER49> Will it actually have an effect on weight gain and health? They've been showing for instance that things like Diet Coke actually don't help people lose weight, b/c of many other factors in the way the body responds to fake sugars.

Will this be similar?

<comment><USER50> Generally, people who switch from regular to diet soda only lose a pound or two when all things are considered. The research has shown that the big deal with switching is that you stop gaining weight. I'll refer you to Aaron Caroll's most recent explanation(rant) from YESTERDAY... [https://youtu.be/znh58FZjXt0?t=663](https://youtu.be/znh58FZjXt0?t=663)

</comment></comment><comment><USER51> I think this is a great move. I recently went on a low-sugar diet and after a while I went back to my favorite chocolate bar from Trader Joe's. I was appalled how sweet it was and I really can't eat it anymore.

</comment><comment><USER52> I'd buy beef jerky if it wasn't soaked in corn syrup. I examined every brand, and they all soak it.

Even bread has so much syrup it tastes like cake to me.

I'd buy more chocolate if it was less sweet.

<comment><USER53> Uh, what brands are you looking at? In addition to my sibling who addressed jerky, I generally buy Arnold's/Orowheat bread and it has no corn syrup whatsoever.

<comment><USER52> I checked all of the brands at the store today. Oberto, Krave, Matador, Golden Island, Jack Links, Tillamook, and World Kitchens all list sugar as the 2nd agreement.

I haven't looked at them in years, evidently they've switched from corn syrup to sugar.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER54> Aw, I'd planned to buy Christmas presents, but now I have to divert all that money (and garage space) to hoarding full sugar Wonka Bars.

"Who can make the sunrise?..." Me, even 2 years on, that's who.

</comment><comment><USER55> Doesn't dilute the blood they've on their hands though

</comment><comment><USER56> What's a problem not to consume chocolate at all? Instead of discussing what it really means to reduce sugar in it.

</comment><comment><USER57> Well:

\- chocolate production is not sustainable right now

\- chocolate consumption is increasing

Eventually cocoa will become a very expensive commodity.

</comment><comment><USER58> >> "A patent is a double-edged sword. Although it protects what you have done it also tells your rivals about it."

Maybe this isn't all the big of a deal for what it does to chocolate but if it is used to reduce sugar in other things that are consumed in large quantities (soda?) it could mean less sugar, fewer calories, less carbs and all those good things.

<comment><USER59> Given that they're making sugar that dissolves more quickly, how would this have any effect on soda? In which the sugar is already dissolved.

</comment></comment><comment><USER60> It might be actually a worse thing to do if they replace it with something else.

</comment><comment><USER61> Of course they'll pass the savings on to the consumer, right?

<comment><USER62> Well, given than cocoa is way more expensive than sugar is...

<comment><USER61> But they're not adding any more cocoa are they?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER63> I don't care, I only eat good chocolate

</comment><comment><USER64> > It claims this can be done without affecting the taste.

Ugh, and I was about to be excited that I'd really actually be into these chocolate bars again if they were actually less sweet. Oh well. And patenting? Screw them.

</comment><comment><USER65> In 2014, Nestle made $4.1 billion selling bottled water

<comment><USER66> It's almost as if value is subjective and not objective... _g_

</comment></comment><comment><USER67> It's cute of them to care about the health of consumers but I'm more concerned about the health of the people that harvest the ingredients.

If they really wanted to they could stop using child slave labour.

<comment><USER68> Do you have evidence that Nestlé purchases sugar that was produced through child labour? They claim to source the majority of their sugar from Brazil, Mexico and India [0] while the main instances I could find of child labour in sugar production were in the Phillipines, El Salvador and Nicaragua.

[0]: [http://www.nestle.com/csv/rural-development-responsible- sour...](http://www.nestle.com/csv/rural-development-responsible- sourcing/responsible-sourcing/sugar)

<comment><USER67> From Nestle themselves.

> No company sourcing cocoa from Côte d'Ivoire can guarantee they have > completely removed the risk of children working on small farms in their > supply chain. Nestlé is no different, but we are determined to tackle the > problem.

[http://www.nestle.com/ask-nestle/human- rights/answers/nestle...](http://www.nestle.com/ask-nestle/human- rights/answers/nestle-child-labour-supply-chains)

They have been in business for years. If they wanted to stop in the past, they could, overnight. It would be expensive, but only because of their entrenched business model which they had a hand in establishing.

<comment><USER69> Even farm products from the US often times are produced with the help of children:

"US child labor laws allow child farm workers to work longer hours, at younger ages, and under more hazardous conditions than other working youths. While children in other sectors must be 12 to be employed and cannot work more than 3 hours on a school day, in agriculture, children can work at age 12 for unlimited hours before and after school."

From: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_labor_laws_in_the_United...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_labor_laws_in_the_United_States)

<comment><USER67> I'm not excusing the US law, but I very much doubt that people working forced, slave or child labour have the option to put in a couple of hours work before they go to school.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER70> It's the sugar that makes milk chocolate taste good, as cocoa powder has a sour taste. I expect Nestle to lose money due to this move.

</comment><comment><USER71> I trust Nestle about as far as I can throw them. Will swap sugar for uranium mine tailings, water rights contracts or dead babies.

</comment><comment><USER72> Now I can eat 40% more Nestle chocolate! America!

<comment><USER73> Or I can use the same concentrated chocolate paste for other medicinal purposes. [http://www.webmd.com/vitamins- supplements/ingredientmono-812...](http://www.webmd.com/vitamins- supplements/ingredientmono-812-cocoa.aspx?activeingredientid=812&)

</comment></comment><comment><USER38> Try the new Nestle chocolates, now 40% smaller!

</comment><comment><USER74> NESTLE: I'm not chemist, biologist or nutritionist, but here is big chance to make something good for the world. If this patent is good for humans, and doesn't change taste much - SHARE IT! With today's social media, this would only bring more people to buy your products, than not.</comment>


Clojure 1.7 is now available - <AUTHOR> http://blog.cognitect.com/blog/2015/6/30/clojure-17 <comment><USER2> I'm really impressed by how backwards compatible it is. I just changed the Clojure version from "1.6.0" to "1.7.0" for one of my side projects, without updating any library versions, ran it, all the tests passed, and it seems to work perfectly. It also didn't break my Emacs setup, which is a breath of fresh air compared to how much work it was to get the Haskell tooling working with the new 7.10 GHC release (GHC-mod for instance still doesn't have a compatible release, although the trunk mostly works with 7.10). Similarly, even though it's months after the 7.10 release there are still libraries that don't support it, like reactive-banana-wx, whilst a couple of the Clojure libraries I'm using haven't been updated in over a year yet still work fine on 1.7, and none of the libraries I'm using break on 1.7.

To be fair, GHC and the Haskell ecosystem is far more complex than Clojure and its ecosystem/standard library. Nevertheless it's pleasant how easy Clojure was to upgrade (although of course this stability is nothing special: more conservative languages like Go and Java generally break almost nothing on upgrade).

<comment><USER3> Yes this is something clojure users take for granted. I dont know the state of Scala right now but a year back even minor version bump was horrible in scala in terms of backward compatibility. Really impressive job by clojure code devs in terms of maintaining such stable releases.

<comment><USER4> Is the job simpler because Clojure is not statically typed?

<comment><USER5> I'm not a Scala user, but Clojure the language tends to be extremely stable. Existing stdlib functions almost never get updated, unless they add a new (backwards-compatible) arities.

Releases tend to consist mostly of new features, and a small number of bugfixes.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> If you want to build a website in Clojure, I highly recommend checking out [http://luminusweb.net](http://luminusweb.net) \- the documentation is amazing, and it incorporates nearly all of the best practices I have seen.

Making an API in Clojure using Swagger gives you a full, interactive UI and documentation for your API, while also having a schema which makes sure you know what is submitted and that it validates (i.e. is that a string or a number?)

<comment><USER7> Luminus author here, thanks for the kind words. :)

As a note making a Swagger app with Luminus is as simple as:

lein new luminus myapp +swagger

cd myapp

lein run

once the server starts, browse to [http://localhost:3000/swagger- ui/index.html](http://localhost:3000/swagger-ui/index.html) to see your Swagger API

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> >Transducers are composable algorithmic transformations. They are independent from the context of their input and output sources and specify only the essence of the transformation in terms of an individual element. Because transducers are decoupled from input or output sources,

The biggest thing holding me back from learning Clojure is that I fear it will take me a decade to become remotely competent in it.

<comment><USER9> If you have an understanding of functions like map, filter, and reduce, transducers are actually pretty easy.

Say you have `(map inc [1 2])`. You can run that, and get `'(2 3)`.

A transducer is the `(map inc)` part of that call (slightly confusingly, this isn't partial application or currying). You can apply it to something like `[1 2]`, but you can also compose with it, by _combining_ it with say, `(filter even?)` to get something that represents the process of incrementing everything, then removing odd numbers. Or you can put in things that aren't collections, like asynchronous channels, and get back a new channel with the values modified accordingly.

That's pretty much it.

What I think I love most about Clojure is that there are fantastic, esoteric, academic ideas that, when I read about them in a context like this for the first time, I a) do not understand them, and b) have no idea how they would be useful. Then I read an example or two, and suddenly it's apparent that the tool is really as simple as it can be--there's very little accidental complexity--and is extremely useful.

<comment><USER10> The way you explain it, it's no different from functions and function composition; in which case, why invent new vocabulary?

I do remember looking into them before and translating them into Haskell and they ended up not being identical to functions in the trivial sense that you suggest, but I forget how.

<comment><USER11> Transducers are functions. The thing is that they are functions that are designed to serve as the functional argument to reduce. And they pair with ordinary functions which are not transducers.

For instance if we have (map inc [1 2]), there exists a transducer function T such that:

      (reduce T [1 2])  ==   (map inc [1 2])

I.e. we can somehow do "map inc" using reduce.

Okay?

Now, the clever thing is this: why don't we allow map to be called without the list argument? Just let it be called like this:

      (map inc)

This looks like partial application, right? Now what would partial application do? It would curry the "inc", returning a function of one argument that takes a list, i.e.:

      ;; if it were partial application, then:
      ((map inc) [1 2])  ;; same as (map inc [1 2])

But Hickey did something clever; he overloaded functions like map so that (map inc) returns T!

      (reduce (map inc) [1 2]) ;; same as (map inc [1 2])

The cool thing is that this (map inc) composes with other functions of its kind. So you can compose together the transducers of list processing operations, which are then put into effect inside a single reduce, and the behavior is like the composition of the original list processors.

It's like a linear operator; like LaPlace. Composition of entire list operations in the regular domain corresponds to composition of operations on individual elements in the "t-domain".

<comment><USER12> > (reduce (map inc) [1 2]) ;; same as (map inc [1 2])

This is wrong. You've missed the point.

        (map inc [1 2])

is actually roughly equivalent to

        (reduce ((map inc) conj) [] [1 2])

which, due to the use of `reduce`, is eager. To get laziness back:

        (sequence (map inc) [1 2])

Transducers are not reducing functions, they _return_ reducing functions when applied to reducing functions. `((map inc) conj)` is a version of `conj` that calls `inc` on all the rhs args before `conj`ing them into the lhs arg.

<comment><USER11> I suspected I had to be not quite understanding something, because why would we want, say, a map based on reduce that chokes on lazy lists, in a language where laziness is important.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> It would be great to see a refactor of some code using transducers to get a better sense of what they're useful for. From an abstraction standpoint, I can see the attraction; but I am having a tough time imagining how it would improve code in practice.

<comment><USER14> It improves the performance by fusing some of the operations doing them in one pass instead of multiple passes, and it does so generically - operations are composed regardless of the source, and the implementation isn't looking at the type of the source at all.

I believe one of the arguments was also that these couldn't be written in statically typed languages. Although, I do not know if this turned out to be true.

<comment><USER15> Re the last sentence, that is not true, nor was it a claim.

<comment><USER14> I think I saw a talk, or a statement somewhere, made by Rich Hickey - [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8342718](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8342718) . I believe it was in this talk.

Not that I was being negative about it.

<comment><USER15> Rich didn't claim you couldn't implement it. He just claimed that some aspects of transducers are difficult to represent _as types_. Or at least, that's how I took it.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> My only negativity with Clojure isn't really with the language itself, but with the Debian / Ubuntu packages, they're way outdated. Not sure who ever maintained them, or why they stopped doing so 1.4 being the last version. Outside of that for anyone wanting to check it out, you could try downloading LightTable and using ClojureScript, seems to be close enough I am able to use Clojure books with ClojureScript, not sure entirely of it's differences or how backwards compatible one is meant to be with the other, though I suspect they're meant to be near identical aside from their available libraries maybe.

<comment><USER17> Clojure is often billed as "just another JAR" and in my experience I've never felt the need to install via any package manager. My workflow often consists of a new leiningen project where I define the version of Clojure that I want to use for the current project, along with whatever I else I need for the task at hand. Likewise, if I just need a quick repl to test something out, I'll simply use `lein repl` and fire away.

<comment><USER18> To expand on this:

If you're familiar with Python Leiningen takes the place of both pip and virtualenv. Every project has a project.clj file where you declare your project dependencies and running "lein deps" from your project root handles it from there. This includes libraries and the version of Clojure you're targeting. When you add/delete/change a dependency in project.clj you simply run "lein deps" again. You never have to run "pip freeze" or make a requirements.txt file because project.clj serves that purpose as well.

As an example, Leiningen's own project.clj: [https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/blob/master/project...](https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/blob/master/project.clj)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> Was the performance related work postponed?

<comment><USER20> If you mean the compilation fsync stuff: Yeah until 1.8

<comment><USER19> I mean the compilation and startup time that people think lies on the JVM, CLR, Dalvik and ART when trying to run Clojure code.

<comment><USER15> It sounds like you are referring to various ideas around delayed var loading to improve startup performance - most of that was delayed, although there was one change that improved compilation speed and improves the performance of some projects.

<comment><USER19> Yeah that was it, thanks.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Quebec's Preoccupation With French Is Limiting Its Startup Scene - <AUTHOR> http://mashable.com/2014/01/30/montreal-tech-industry/

<comment><USER2> I'm a baby of the law 101. I learned French because my parents couldn't send to me English school. Living in Montreal, I can say there is a huge difference between where I work (right accross McGill University) and where I live (a few metro/subway stations east). Downtown Montreal is fully bilingual. The more you go East, the "francophone-er" it gets. The neighboors all have their distinct vibe and it's very impressive how walking half an hour will bring you into a culturally different part of the city.

I see Montreal in a completely different light than what is exposed in the article : the community is vibrant, everybody is very warm and welcoming. IMHO speaking French is a great perk if you want to discover Montreal (and the rest of Quebec :-) ), but the hatred is mostly an attitude thing : history classes are heavily skewed on the separation between "Haut Canada" and "Bas Canada" and the whole "speak white" period. Let's add that Harper doesn't really help bringing the Country together. If you try to speak French and struggle, you will most of the time be answered in English. The key word is "try" : language is a sensitive spot over here, so a little effort goes a very long way.

There was an indirect answer from the community to this article : [http://wearemtltech.ca/](http://wearemtltech.ca/) (and it's in both English and French)

</comment><comment><USER3> "No word for entrepreneur", blah blah blah. Good on Quebec.</comment>


A hospital room paved the way for creating my first startup - <AUTHOR> https://www.globalpatron.com/blog/our-startup-story/ <comment><AUTHOR> The end game is a commercially viable software company that generates revenues for the service of mankind, without ever making any individuals rich.</comment>