I have a soul-crushing job and I don't know what to do - <AUTHOR> I love programming and I enjoy solving good problems. Even though I am aware that there is some level of grunt work associated with each job but this one is just killing me.
Most of my job deals with adding CRUD functionality and bug fixes here and there. People don't seem to be tiny bit interested in doing things better. Our front-end developer chooses to re-implement everything from modals, alert boxes, to validation in form of horrendously ugly code because he believes his code will be more understandable to 'him'. The pay is not great and there nothing exciting associated with this job. In fact, out of 8 hours, I barely write code for 2 hours.
I only took this job in order to buy some time and create some interesting things but this job barely leaves me any time to do so. When I started looking for job, I didn't get good response from HN hiring / freelancing threads (maybe because I don't have a good portfolio).
I feel I should know modern frameworks like Rails and Angular to have a better appeal but it would take months before I get proficient in them and I have never been good at learning new frameworks for just the purpose of learning. I have no idea what I should do? <comment><USER3> Some times I think we are wired to believe we have to beg people's forgiveness for not being miserable. Medium term I'd suggest discarding this belief. Short term: on behalf of geeks everywhere, your local online watering hole hereby grants you permission to not be miserable.

Quit. There exist much better jobs out there. The hiring market for people with your skillset is the best it has ever been.

Level up. Portfolios are not, in fact, how most people get consulting gigs or jobs. This is believe due to availability bias by junior employees/consultants because portfolios are tangible and they have some sort of just world theory where the best gigs/jobs go to the people on the top of the ladder in programming skill. There is no one skill ladder. To the extent that there is, skill is not the primary driver of employment decisions.

P.S. The overwhelming majority of jobs are not in modern frameworks. Get good at Rails/AngulAr if they interest you or if you want to work in fields where they're the frameworks of choice. (Rails might be for Valley startups one of a few top contenders. I am insufficiently well acquainted with Angular to understand whether it is. Either way, neither will account for a full percentage point of LOC written in 2014.)

Also, if you haven't done so, I'd sit down and figure "What do I want to get out of my career?" and start optimizing for jobs which get you closer to those goals. This sounds obvious but some people don't do it. Do it. "A job which keeps a roof over my head and doesn't tax me mentally" is a perfectly valid answer but you don't seem to want that so don't continue to seek it out when you get up every morning.

<comment><USER4> I have the idea that AngularJS is requested more and more. I thought it was kind of a "must have" skill.

<comment><USER5> It's the hot technology in the same way that Rails was the hot technology in 2005-2007.

This does not make it a must-have. I did just fine learning Django instead of Rails in 2007, and when I finally got into Google in 2009, I ended up using neither for the bulk of my time there (okay, I think I had about 3-4 Django projects in my tenure, and knowing Python definitely helped).

There is a certain segment of the employer market that is always chasing the latest hot fad: Java applets in 1997, ColdFusion in 1999, J2EE in 2002, Rails in 2005, Angular in 2009, React or Polymer or Go in 2014. Knowing the latest hot fad can be an excellent way to get your first couple jobs in software, because these employers are always looking for people and typically don't know much about technology themselves. However, it often signs you up for a lifetime of retraining, unless you leverage experience at one of these places into domain knowledge with a longer shelf life. Companies that live by the latest fad die by the latest fad; the same ColdFusion or J2EE skills that got me my first jobs in college are basically worthless now.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> "I feel I should know modern frameworks like Rails and Angular to have a better appeal but it would take months before I get proficient in them"

The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago. The second best time is today.

<comment><USER7> If you want to get your feet wet with some real work, I highly recommend joining the folks at assemblymade.com. They have a really neat platform for collaboration that will allow you to make real contributions to a commercial project. One of their most active projects, Helpful, is a Rails app and would be a great companion project to the typical self-taught track of learning.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> I had string of crappy jobs to get finally a good one. I worked at a dead end e-commerce company that's now defunct that provided its own in-house platform to sell to customers for e-commerce sites. It was miserable, everyone could see the company was on life-support, including the owners. The practices we used like editing code on live sites/servers was insanity. I forced myself to start using Git, making me the only one using version control and sneaking in best practices to hone in skills. I took what I could from the job to benefit me (taking on a project to make a mobile version of the platform). I hated the job as the work environment was toxic and it was affecting me outside of work. Even to this day, I have the occasional bad dream of being forced to go back to work for that company but having some sort of exit plan, even vague as mine helped enormously.

Picking a project and assigning it a tech stack is the best way I've found. Simply doing tutorials for the sake of tutorials takes superhuman dedication. My motivation grew also in parallel with the work conditions spiraling downward.

Long story short, I scored a job oodles better than the horrid job and make significantly more, and have happy coworkers and bosses that care. Plus, I've picked up a lot of skills here which I'd never been able to at my crappy job.

</comment><comment><USER9> > I only took this job in order to buy some time and create some interesting > things but this job barely leaves me any time to do so.

If your interest is in creating "interesting things," you should focus on the ways you can scratch this itch. If you go into your next job looking to "buy some time" you probably won't be any happier than you are now.

> I feel I should know modern frameworks like Rails and Angular to have a > better appeal...

Software development is software development.

A lot of jobs, even at prominent/"hot" companies, primarily involve CRUD applications and mundane development tasks ("grunt work"). Proficiency in Rails or Angular might help you land a new job, but it's worth contemplating the very real possibility that the nature of the work at these companies won't be any more engaging to you just because your employer uses a framework du jour.

<comment><USER10> Wow ... this comment is so true especially in Germany.

Most of our Software Development jobs here in Germany deals with business application at is very boring and contains mostly mundane tasks. I have worked for some companies already and i really got to think the work is mostly the same boring shit!

At my current job we have a load of "slaves" from companies like Accenture, CSC and the like... they also report the same shits from a lot of other places :(

I really lost all hope ........

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> I'm the worst for not taking my own advice but I've often heard it delivered to me in one form or another when I've been in these similar situations... so here it goes:

What do you like to do? Do more of that.

Easier said than done, I know. It comes off as an awfully curt way of suggesting that you throw out your entire life and reorganize it in a way that you can toy with your passions in pure bliss every waking moment. For those of us with families, mortgages, and responsibilities outside of work such advice seems useless.

But it's not entirely useless. You just have to do _more_ of that thing which excites you. It won't replace the drudgery of your current job (or any possible job you can get thereafter). But if you aim to spend a few hours a week on it for the sake of being happy and doing interesting things you might find an opportunity to make it your thing.

Share your passion with others. Show them what you're up to. Aim to make a little progress each week. Keep it small. Finish one thing at a time. Don't leave dangling threads. Yadda yadda.

The flip side of asking yourself this question is that you have to be honest in order to make progress. You may not actually like programming. Or perhaps what you do like programming is so niche that there isn't an industry for it (notice how few postings there are for BF programmers?). It's okay to enjoy programming as a hobby. Maybe you're actually a carpenter in a world obsessed with gizmos and you'd be better off spending the majority of your days planing and staining wood. Fiddle with computers and neat programs at night. That sort of thing.

You're not living in a Kafka-esque dystopia. There are ways to get out of your rut. You just have to shift your perspective and be willing to do something about it.

</comment><comment><USER12> If your job is a soul-crushing vise, take your soul out of it and put it somewhere else. There are a lot of people out there that do something they hate to pay the bills. They get their enjoyment out of life by doing something else after clocking out. People at your work have no interest in doing things better because they already emotionally divested themselves from the job. Just pretend that instead of writing awful code, you're just serving customers at the restaurant until your agent calls about an audition.

Reserve your passion, creativity, and imagination for the people who care, even if that's just you. Don't learn anything based on what you think other people might want to know. Learn what you need to know to do what you love. If you can't somehow telegraph to a prospective employer that you can invest your passion into _something_ , it won't matter what you know. Bitter, jaded, burnt-out people don't get nice jobs.

<comment><AUTHOR> You are misunderstanding my situation. The reason why people aren't interested in clever solutions is because they can't think of any. It may seem cynical but I have seen people out here working even longer than me re-creating something, not exploiting even basic tricks or automations.

Lately, my co-worker spent 15 minutes indenting JS files without realizing that it would 10s to use a code beautifier.

<comment><USER13> I don't know your situation well, but the way you talk sounds like I used to. I spent too much of my career criticizing the people around me. Long story short, you get zero points for making other people look bad. It doesn't benefit your career, it doesn't make you feel good.

If there is an opportunity for your co-worker to be more effective, that's a great thing. You get to be the one to show him how. Just don't forget to do so with humility, because maybe there's a very good reason for doing it the way he does now. And if he's not interested in your advice, try not to take it personally.

It may be that you really are surrounded by idiots. Your co-workers are stupid, management is incompetent, they'd all be better off if they just listened to you, whatever. In this (unlikely) worst case, negativity still gets you nowhere. Acknowledge to yourself that you aren't satisfied with the situation, start looking for another job, and continue to show up every day doing your best and helping those around you. I've watched others take this approach and they're doing a lot better in their careers than I am, and they seem happier.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> Your sentence "[...] out of 8 hours, I barely write code for 2 hours" contrasts with the next sentence: "[...] but this job barely leaves me any time to do so."

I am probably misinterpreting, but if you wanted to buy some time I would have thought this meant accepting this job to pay the bills, and then outside of work hours picking up other skills to create some interesting things, which sounds like the right way to build up your portfolio and skillset, especially if you've put in your required 8hrs/day in the day job.

I understand there are family commitments or other activities that may take up time, but in light of your implied situation (i.e. having to accept a less- motivating job to pay bills and buy time), you may want to consider either pushing for a new framework at work (which sounds like an uphill battle), or looking for another job.

<comment><AUTHOR> The main problem is exhaustion. The queer thing about jobs out here is that in name "flexible timings" there is complete lack of schedule. Everyone comes around 11AM and stay till 7-7:30. I reach home by 8 and I am completely spent. Weekends are better but I don't feel I am progressing enough to have a good job.

<comment><USER15> Been there. Shift your hours back to 9-5. Helps considerably. You don't lose the evening then. Gives you something to live for.

<comment><USER16> Moar this than I can upvote. Getting in early changes your entire day. Sure, you sleep less, but unless you have an acute medical condition you can get used to it within a week or so.

<comment><USER17> Yeah, but make sure you do sleep enough. I neglected sleep for years, sleeping for 2-4 hours a day - on average, with sometimes 2-3 days without sleep at all - and I though I was doing fine. When it finally caught up to me I had a major epilepsy episode at the office, which was not nice. I since started to value a solid 8-9 hours sleep much more than before. This "much" of sleep is probably not really needed, but right now I'd rather be safe than (even more) sorry. YMMV ofc, but just keep in mind the dangers when deciding to sleep less to do something else.

<comment><USER15> Similar experience. I did two days solid with a couple of naps and passed out on some stairs breaking three bones in my foot, 2 ribs and dislocated my shoulder. My brain just said "enough of this shit" and taught me a painful lesson that destroyed me for 3 months.

7 hours minimum now and no stimulants (alcohol, caffeine, masses of sugar etc) and lots of water. Made a bigger difference to me than an exercise regime.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> I got addicted to solving problems. Every time I fixed one, I would get that little dopamine hit that told me I was doing a good job.

Then one day a buddy said, 'Yeah, but in your company there are problems that shouldn't need to be fixed.'

Completely changed my way of thinking and set me on the path to start looking for a new job.

</comment><comment><USER19> Maybe find an open source project that piques your interest, dig into the source code and start helping them fix bugs and add enhancements. If you work 8 hours a day, you have about 20 hours a week of free time, so go for it.

Log onto github.com and click the "explore" link at the top, to get some ideas.

Beyond that, realize that most people don't have ideal jobs. It can take years of hard work to get to the point where you can pick your job, or even better, make your own job.

Everyone's had soul crushing jobs before; just grit your teeth and get through this, whilst looking around constantly for the next opportunity.

As a friend once said, opportunities don't usually knock on your door. They lie there quietly, waiting for you to go out and find them. Best of luck!

</comment><comment><USER20> I was in a similar situation once. Here's the algorithm I came up with to get myself out:

1\. Figure out what you _want_ to do.

This is the most important step. You currently have a job, so you have time to really think about this and figure out a solid answer. The answer doesn't have to be an emotional epiphany where you find your so-called "passion", but it has to be a concrete goal. For me, it was more of a recovery of the idea that I wanted to apply my programming and computer science skills to interesting and difficult real-world problems. With that in mind, I looked at the place I was currently working at, and saw that I wasn't going to be able to achieve my goal there. So, I looked around and found another opportunity that was more along the lines of what I wanted to work on.

2\. Figure out what skills you need to pursue your goal.

So, when I found the new job that I wanted, I interviewed for it, and got rejected. I asked for feedback, and I was told that my data structures and algorithms knowledge wasn't good enough. I suppose if I had followed my own advice, I'd have realized this before I applied. After stagnating at my old job, and foolishly taking a team lead position, my skills had certainly atrophied. However, the interview failure was exactly the kind of real feedback/wake up call that I needed.

3\. Work on improving your skills so that you are ready to actively pursue your goal.

After failing the interview, and getting some feedback, I set to work rebuilding my data structures and algorithms knowledge. I bought a copy of Cormen, et al., and brought it everywhere. At work, I would go off and hide somewhere for an hour a day, and study some part of the textbook. At home, I worked on a core data structures and algorithms library in C. I'd get up an hour before work, and write unit tests or fix bugs. I'd use the evening to hack on new code for the library. I was pretty exhausted after work, and I had three kids, one of whom was only a few months old, but I pushed myself ahead because I had a goal, and I didn't want to be stuck in my current job any more.

4\. Don't give up in the face of failure. Keep the dream alive.

After 5 months of study, and writing the data structures and algorithms library, I decided it was time to apply again for the new job I really wanted. I explained in a cover letter what I had done since the first interview rejection to address the feedback I'd received, why I really wanted to work at the company, and how I thought it lined up with my career goals. Within a week, I had heard back from the company, and scheduled another interview with them. Three weeks later, it was my first day on the job!

It was terrifying to apply for a second time. I had no backup plan. My current job at the time was starting to suck more, and I wasn't enjoying being a team lead, so something was going to have to change, one way or another. My life at home was exhausting, too, with the new baby and two other kids knocking around. But my wife was on board with my whole plan, and tried to give me the time to do the work I needed. It helped that we had friends and family who were struggling to find jobs - there's nothing like seeing other people hurting to give you a realistic perspective on your own life, what you have, and where your life should be going.

On the other side of all this, I've made it my mission to be continuously studying, cramming it in wherever and whenever I can. I never want to be back in that hole of skills atrophy. Also, at the start of every year, I make an assessment of where I'm at goal-wise, and I make a study plan for the year, including a substantial project to work on in my spare time that will help me get to where I think I need to be. Resist the urge to hop from one thing to the next. Focus on something, and master it before moving on to something else.

Good luck!

<comment><USER21> Why was taking the team lead position foolish? Were there no benefits to accompany the drawbacks?

<comment><USER20> It was foolish because I worked at a large company, and team leads were basically impotent eunuchs who ran errands for the higher ups. I also worked in a department that had pathological ideas on how long developers ought to work (including weekends), and how short product schedules should be (unfeasibly short).

There were some benefits. I loved being able to help the guys on my team. I did my best to promote their achievements, and argue for them at project schedule meetings. I was very happy to get one of my guys a really good placement on the "technical career path" system when it reared its ugly head at the company.

Ultimately, my strengths are in technical problem solving, not in managing the psychopaths who seem to ascend to the upper echelons of large companies.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> Not to sound harsh, but you seem to have an unrealistic expectation about how rewarding a given job should be. The _vast_ majority of working folk do it for the pay check, then clock out at the end of the day and proceed to the part of their lives where their heart resides. Think about all the folks who works in retail, or food services, or manufacturing, not to mention agricultural workers, dish washers, maids etc. The notion that your career should reflect your passion is classist nonsense peddled by career counselors in upper middle class high schools and psychologically seductive but ill-conceived internet memes. You have a job that probably pays higher than the median national salary and doesn't expose you harsh physical conditions or toxic chemicals on a regular basis. Have some perspective and be grateful for what you have.

That being said: If you want a job that it is personally fulfilling to you on a reliable basis, then you need to take some risks. I would recommend either 1) starting your own company (it is your baby so you will care) or 2) freelance consulting (so you can pick your work).

</comment><comment><USER23> > "I have never been good at learning new frameworks for just the purpose of > learning"

Could not agree more with this statement. When I get into a software project really deeply, my work ethic is insane. Obsessive. As I need new technologies, I learn and assimilate them quickly because I'm so motivated to get to the end point. There's never been a tech I've given up on when plowing through a project -- well, maybe OpenCV.

Anyway, I've tried, as the OP has, to teach myself Rails or Django or whatever on the side as a "resume builder" and have lost interest each time. I _just don 't care_ enough to learn the not-totally-necessary tech to a degree that would actually do me any good in a job interview if I'm not doing it as part of a passion project where it is required.

From the other angle, when I get an idea and want to build it really fast, I don't have the patience to force myself to learn a new language or tech when, fuck it, I can just do it in Java or whatever.

Catch 22.

<comment><USER24> I think thats where side projects have to be something you care about. Scratch an itch whilst learning pet technology.

Ex: a friend of mine wanted to modify some data on his garmin GPS thing. He also wanted to learn Go and google app engine. A few weeks later he had resume items and the goal accomplished.

</comment></comment><comment><USER25> Shubham, I went through your blog and I'm impressed! It looks like you're a person with wide ranging interests. You seem proficient in combining concepts from core mathematics, computer science, practical software engineering and electronics, which in my opinion, is something only few engineers can do and fewer still actually do.

Use your creative energies, polymath skills, urge for perfection and your time, to build your own software ideas and perhaps make a business out of them.

Don't waste them on your employer's products or your fellow employees. If they like bad code, then let them. You too can lower your standards of perfection, and raise your level of tolerance. Empathize that perhaps their job is as soul crushing for them as yours is for you. Your expectation of perfection in others is the bigger enemy you have to conquer. Expect perfection from yourself, but forget about others. Good luck (from a fellow freelancer!)

</comment><comment><USER26> i could have written this. our "designer"/self-professed "front end guru" does everything wrong. everything. i've had to teach her what javascript callbacks, closures, constructor functions, and hoisting are. she's rolling her own "front end framework" (table-based layouts with a few breakpoints thrown in) and separates the code into dozens (dozens) of different CSS and JS files. i'm also getting paid shit wages. but i basically spend 90% of my non-work, non- sleeping time learning and creating things so i can have a portfolio. i don't have a CS degree, so i am taking OCW courses and MOOCs to fill in my knowledge gaps. i'm going to start building an app for a friend soon so i can put something on my github. i cannot rely on my "real" work to provide me with a meaningful portfolio. i recommend you do the same.

<comment><USER27> It's maddening to hear stories like this. I'm a UI/UX Developer, and really I just end up doing most of the front end development for our team. One of the big things I focus on is making sure our conventions are clear and documented. Style guides are verbose and have code examples.

Part of being a good at frontend is bringing the biggest lift to the team overall and making their jobs as easy as possible. So many people will be touching your code at some point, so I go out of my way to make their interactions as painless as possible.

I think with frontend development in particular, it's really easy to get some people that are really unqualified. Hopefully this is changing, but I feel like a decent amount of people sell some serious snake oil because some of it bleeds into soft skills.

<comment><USER8> Agreed, at least with the advent of precompilers and task managers like Grunt and Gulp we're starting to see a division from the previous generation of "web designers" where there's some hard skills that you simply do or don't have that can't be faked easily using bad WYSIWYG editors or rudimentary grasp of HTML and CSS.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER28> I feel for you, I really do. I've also had a string of "crap" jobs where I felt I was not doing anything of value.

Remember, you should always be looking. If you have time, do some small bit of pro-bono work for someone, perhaps a non-profit. Add them to your CV. Solve an interesing problem for them.

Look at companies you admire in your area, see what interests you, and come up with a way to solve a problem they are working on. Present this to a manager over lunch. Tell them you fancy working for them and you can bring some skills to the table.

Like Yoda said, there is no try, there is do or do not.

FYI, I switched over to working for non-profits, and while the money isn't as much, the jobs are more interesting to me and I have generally much more latitude to implement what I think will work (for me, always OSS/Libre). It's a good feeling to know you are making a difference.

</comment><comment><USER29> You are not alone. I am in a similar situation. Best advice for learning new platforms is to come up with something you want to build and then learn the new framework by implementing the idea using the desired framework.

My plan to get out of my rut is to build my own self-sustaining startup that I am more passionate about.

</comment><comment><USER30> Some of the points you're making dont seem to make sense. For instance you say you dont have time to make interesting things but then say you only program 2hrs out of the day. What are you doing those other 6hrs? And what about side projects outside of work?

Another key point that lead to crud work is a lack of experience. If your fresh out of school most job offers you'll get will be fairly crud type work until you've shown your able to handle more.

Education can also play a role in this. If you have a bachelor's or no degree experience will be your best friend. If you have a master's or phd you can generally get into some more exciting positions out of the gate.

Where else are you looking for work besides hn hiring / freelance threads? Those aren't even close to the best resources for finding great jobs.

</comment><comment><USER31> I was in the same situation for more than four years. The only reason I stayed for so long was at the time my career wasn't very important to me -- my main focus was my band, and even though it was infuriating, my horrible job afforded me the time and money to be able to focus on music.

When the time came for me to think about moving on, I did a few different things. First off, I went to udemy.com and brushed up on my framework skills. At the time I was a front end developer, so I too courses in jQuery and Angular.js, then took a refresher course in Java. From there I started doing volunteer development work for local non-profits so I could round out my portfolio.

After that, my job hunt was pretty easy. All-in-all my ramp up took about 6 months or so, and it lead to me getting a job that I love.

</comment><comment><USER32> Our first world problems are such a drag.

I think you can make most any coding job fun if you do it right. Are _you_ interested in making things better? Adding CRUD? Bake in a better object layer to the data store. Front end developer a n00b? Just out do him with some nice Angular or jQuery on the next project. "Oh, I already added the UI stuff."

If you can't learn something just for the purpose of learning (and why are you putting that limitation on yourself - buck up) do it on your own time and then bring it to work. Make everyone else look bad. Make your employer happy. Then get good at the new shiznit so you can quit and get a better job.

<comment><USER33> I find that making everyone else look good is an even better way to improve your career. Colleagues will remember every time you helped them out and your bosses are usually more aware than you think.

</comment></comment><comment><USER34> When I need to learn something I first brain-storm a small project to work on. Doesn't have to be great or solve any world problems. Maybe it's just something for you. But in that project, be determined to use whatever framework you've set out to learn.

For me, I also have a coding blog (eonjava.com) where I will write an article on whatever I am working on. I have several articles right now that I am working on at once. I try to write them as if I am speaking to someone who has no previous knowledge of the topic so this forces me to learn it from the ground up. It might be worthwhile to start a blog and take this same tactic.

</comment><comment><USER35> I found myself in a very similar situation to you. I was working at a job that I didn't really like and knew that learning Rails was something that, on my own, would take many months to get proficient at before getting good enough to get a job. The way I broke out of my slump was to attend App Academy. I used the opportunity to really dive deep into Rails, and javascript, but also to meet a bunch of really great new people in a new place. (I had some previous web dev experience but no Rails and very little javascript and it was still absurdly useful :))

</comment><comment><USER24> My advice is to make it interesting. If you're supposed to do _yet_another_GD_CRUD_page, then figure a way to do CRUD +1 .

Eg: add autosave per field, take a long form and turn it to a multipage w/ final submit, figure a way to validate in the browser before sending to the server, internationalize it (what does $1,000 and $1.000 mean?) etc etc.

I did this, plus basically ignoring my manager (whom only cared about the bare minimums and timelines, for his bonus) to level up my skills and move onto better pastures.

</comment><comment><USER36> Same sort of situation here at my job. Myself and a group of three other developers began meeting weekly after work to go over coding technology and to challenge each other. We will bring ourselves up to speed with or without the help of our company.

And that's the attitude you need to adopt. The relevance of your knowledge base is your responsibility. Fight for it. Defend it.

</comment><comment><USER37> Do you have any savings? Are you married or otherwise unable to move? There are many countries in the world where you can live comfortably for $1000/month (or even less).

That will give you a few years of time to do anything, web apps or something. Maybe one will turn out to be profitable. Or you could just try to do part- time remote work to cover living expenses.

<comment><USER24> Which are said sub $1000 countries and link to proof would be nice.

<comment><USER37> Almost half of Europe [1]. Average wage is better than vast majority of people in these countries earn. That's proof enough. You can optimize for smallest price levels [2], safety [3] or local English level [4].

Other than that, basically most places in the world. I heard Bali is nice.

[1] [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_a...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_average_wage)

[2] [http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/tgm/graph.do?tab=graph&plug...](http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/tgm/graph.do?tab=graph&plugin=1&pcode=tec00120&language=en&toolbox=sort)

[3] [http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/topics/safety/](http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/topics/safety/)

[4] [http://languageknowledge.eu/languages/english](http://languageknowledge.eu/languages/english)

<comment><USER38> Those are nice links, but do not be mistaken, even in a low wage EE country your $1000 a month will not go far enough unless you have the right mindset of a local.

Low average wages != low cost of living.

<comment><USER24> Also a good point. My cost of living includes high speed internet, meat at 2/3rds of my meals, healthcare, new shoes each year etc. Maybe the low average wage is possible to live on, but doesnt mean it will replicate my desired standard of living.

<comment><USER37> In Poland, if you wanted to eat _only_ in restaurants, that would cost you about $1000/month. $200 for high-quality home made meals with meat everyday (the cheapest sustenance diet would be about $40). Rent for a small apartment in medium-sized city is about $350/month. $20-$30 for ~50 mbit internet. Other utilities about $100 I guess, depending on usage. Shoes and clothes generally cost the same everywhere.

There is public health insurance which most people have but it's better to pay privately for everything, prices are very low and quality is higher. Eg. a total knee replacement surgery would be $7000 at most compared to $60k in USA. One consultation with a specialist costs about $25.

<comment><USER39> > In Poland, if you wanted to eat only in restaurants, that would cost you > about $1000/month.

It is possible to go much, much lower than that if you are willing to prefer eateries/milk bars over proper restaurants. It is very much possible to have a hearty, filling, two-course lunch in downtown Warsaw for $4.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER40> I went to your blog. If that is seriously yours then I don't think you need a job where you'll be managed by some dumb blokes. You have what it takes to create awesome stuffs. Go work on your dream ! Imagine what & where you want to be after 10 years - some manager or lead of some XX company OR a professional with real value?

</comment><comment><USER41> If you are a decent enough developer, getting proficient in Angular or Rails should not be that difficult. I say back yourself, and get studying, you can do it!

</comment><comment><USER42> I was in a similar position until finally leaving my job this February. I am not a programmer, I was actually an investment banker, but I know what it feels like to work in a soul sucking job and feel helpless. The trouble is, like you said, you get stuck in such a job to "buy time" \- for me it was to make some money to pay back student loans - but unless you know exactly what you want to do next or you are actively searching for it, the time gets away from you. It becomes a virtuous cycle - the longer you are in a job like that, the harder it is to leave. Here is my 5 step guide to figuring out what the hell you want to do and getting out of a job you hate:

Step 1: Like aurelius said below, the first step is figuring out what the hell you want to do, what you care about. This part has nothing to do with your skill set or which frameworks you should learn, it has to do with finding a mission you believe in. For me, the epiphany was realizing I needed to find my mission. I woke up in the middle of the night gasping because I realized that I had been in a job I hated for over 4 years and all along I knew that I wanted to start a company. I was buying time, but instead of a year or two as I originally planned, it was 4+.

The next day I decided to explore every business idea I had ever jotted down. I started reading voraciously about every sector of tech I found interesting. I started studying the history of venture capital. Finally, I was getting on a plane to New York for a dinner with one of my clients and as fortune would have it, in the airport I stumbled upon up a book called, "Makers: The New Industrial Revolution." Half way through my flight after ripping through the first 150 or so pages, I realized that 3D printing/digital fabrication was where I wanted to spend my time. I was convinced that this was going to change the world in a big way and I wanted to be a part of it.

I think this search process takes time and is different for everyone, but I'd be willing to bet that the more effort you put into actively searching for what you want to do, the luckier you'll be.

Step 2: Once you know what you want to do, you have to accept that you are going to have to sacrifice your free time to make it happen. But here's the kicker - since you've found something that you're passionate about, it doesn't feel like a sacrifice!

I'm not sure whether you meant that you're working 8 hours a day and only coding 2, but if that is the case, you have plenty of time left in the day to go after your newfound passion. Personally, I started going to every after work meetup (and some during the day too) in the Bay Area in the digital fabrication space, introducing myself in person, over twitter or over email to anyone who would give me the time of day. I also kept reading as much as I could on digital fab and on startups. Next I started putting together specs, a powerpoint deck, a business model canvas and talking to friends who had started businesses before. The point is start soaking up as much knowledge as possible and moving the ball forward in any way you can. Maybe that is setting up informational interviews with professionals in whatever area you want to get into. Maybe that is taking One Month Rails or Michael Hartl's RoR tutorial. The bottom line is, do something productive every single day.

Step 3: Put a date on the calendar you are going to quit by and tell people who matter so you can't back out. Honestly you'd be surprised how much this helps. Saying it out loud actually allows you to visualize walking out the door. Maybe more importantly, by telling other people, you are more likely to hold yourself accountable. You have to keep doing this too. The more you do it, the more comfortable it starts to feel.

For me that date was after I received my annual bonus. In investment banking that is basically half your pay so it would have been very difficult to leave when I was just a few months away from a big payday. I'm not sure what that date is for you. Maybe you had wanted to pay off your car later this year and need to wait until then. Maybe you hate your job so much that you want to quit next Friday. There is nothing wrong with either one. However, in my opinion, once you know what you want to do, the general rule of thumb is, the sooner you can quit the better. So if you wait, make sure it's for a good reason because it is very easy to make excuses.

Step 4: At this point you have identified the date you will be out the door and you continue to communicate that to your friends, family and mentors, so in the meantime, get yourself as prepared as you can for that date. That means some combination of giving up TV at night, waking up earlier, staying up later, giving up days during the weekend. Determine what skills you need for whatever is coming next and start acquiring them. Use your network - <USER2> beautiful thing is, once you know what you want to do and are committed to making it happen, you'll find that people will want to help you. Again, the mantra is progress every day. One day at a time.

Step 5: Jump. The truth is you will never be ready. At least not completely. But if you have something you are passionate about and are willing to commit yourself to, it will all be worth it. Consider the jump itself your first success. You will certainly have failures and more successes ahead of you, but that is the fun part ;)

Best of luck to ya. I have the utmost faith.

</comment><comment><USER43> Apart from learning, try these:

1\. Put yourself in situations where you can meet more tech people

Most (not some, _most_ ) of the work I've gotten came from a chance conversation with someone who was working at a place that needed the skills I have. So try to have more of those conversations. I live in suburban Ohio in the heart of the rust belt, so this can be done anywhere.

2\. Try consulting instead of full time work.

A lot of businesses have problems, but can't afford a full-time coder. It also sounds like you don't want to be working full-time anyhow. Try doubling your rate and finding 2 clients who each buy 10 of your hours a week. This is much easier to do if you do number 1. Even better, charge a daily or weekly rate so you don't have to keep track of your hours. This also allows you to pay your taxes on April 15th every year, instead of having it deducted from your check, giving you more cash flow options and more runway.

3\. Work Remotely

When you do 2, you can negotiate 3 pretty easily. A business that just needs you to fix javascript bugs on their website 1 day a week probably doesn't want to dedicate the infrastructure to have you in their office. This will save you even more time, energy, and stress by eliminating your commute.

4\. Structure your time better

Set constraints on yourself for doing what you need to do, when you need to do it. If you're coding 2 hours a day, then set aside 3 hours of your day where you don't do anything but code. No email. No web surfing (other than what you need to code). No phone. If you have meetings, schedule them consecutively. Let your brain be in meeting mode for 3 hours, then go grab some lunch, then come back to the office and put your brain in code mode for 3 hours. This way, you can even have time to multi-task (answer emails, talk about local sports team, read HN) at the beginning and end of the day. This takes some discipline, but you'll get more done if you have full chunks of time dedicated to one thing.

5\. Say "No" more

You can't do 4 without doing 5. Don't be rude, just explain that you're busy with something else and that you can discuss at the next meeting you have scheduled. Put headphones on while you're coding and gently set boundaries with your co-workers that you're not available for chit-chat when your headphones are on. I've found that music without lyrics is best for coding. I have a John Williams station on Pandora that I use all the time, here, have a listen: [http://www.pandora.com/?sc=sh216294333998280127&shareImp=tru...](http://www.pandora.com/?sc=sh216294333998280127&shareImp=true).

Finally, don't give up hope. In my experience, it's easier to find a good job once you know what you don't want. It sounds like you have a good idea about that, so make sure to ask questions at your interviews, sales calls to make sure they aren't making the same mistakes.

Good luck!

<comment><USER44> Wow thanks for all the tips! Can you explain 1. A bit more. What kind of situations are they? How do you mention what you do or find out what they need?

<comment><USER43> When I was first getting started, I just looked up every web design firm in town and called them. A lot of the local firms just had people building websites with Wordpress or Joomla on managed hosting services, so being able to say "I know a guy that writes custom code" was good for their business. In a bigger city, there's a lot more coders, but there's also a lot more businesses, so I would think this would work just about anywhere.

There's a business incubator nearby that I frequented, and I found companies there that were using technologies that I knew. If you run into a collective like this, it's a good idea to introduce yourself to administrators, because they're always looking to solve their member companies problems with a suggestion. I introduced myself and let them know my skill set. The companies always found themselves in a pinch eventually, and I built a reputation for going into the middle of a project and helping to put out fires.

I would take strategic walks through areas where I knew there were technology companies, and just walk in and introduce myself.

Events are even better. If you can find business speakers at a local college, or business networking groups, these are great to go and find out what types of problems people have. Then you can come up with solutions and go back and try to sell them. You shouldn't even try to code anything, just pitch them your solution and tell them you'll build it for $X, get a down payment and start coding.

<comment><USER44> Thanks again! What would examples of business networking groups be? How did you you hear about business speakers?

<comment><USER43> There's a regular business network meeting in my home town, I don't know what it's called, but most of the web design firms I talked to had a rep at it every week. Ask people when you talk to them if they go to any meetups or groups like that.

Business speakers are even easier. Just go to a place where they are likely to have presentations - a college, a conference center, business expos - and see what events they have coming up. Scout bulletin boards. Speakers generally like to have an audience, so it shouldn't be too hard.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER45> >barely leaves me any time to do so

How many hours are you working?

</comment><comment><USER46> shubhamjain, I'm sure you are a good developer and will be able to turn this around. :)

</comment><comment><USER47> Sounds like you are in an average, ordinary job, where they pay less and expect more. A lot of these places are revolving doors, working people to the bone until they quit. Then they bring in the next sucker.

Good jobs are out there, but you have to be good and you have to sell yourself. So, two things:

1\. Become exceptional at what you do. This is the idea that "follow your passion" is bad advice. Instead, become exceptional at your craft, and you will automatically enjoy what you do, and you will have access to better and better opportunities. Typically you end up doing more of what you enjoy, making more money, and working less than you did at the sucker-farm job. On this point, I'll say that every single time I made progress toward becoming exceptional, I did not set out to "learn Rails" or whatever. I set out to do something fun or interesting or hard, and in the course of hammering out 1000 details to make it happen, I learned a ton. Equally important is being around other people who are exceptional. You gain the experience of a dozen people in a short period of time. It's very high value that you can't get coding like a hermit in your parent's basement. You will learn things that you could never learn on your own, like the importance of communication. If you can't communicate effectively with your coworkers, you can't be exceptional. There are 100 things like this that you will learn just from hanging around other exceptional people, how they think, what books they read, some key distinction they know (that you don't know) that will change your life. My jump from an average paying job to a much higher paying job was the direct result of an exceptional friend describing his approach to interviewing.

2\. Learn to sell yourself. Most employers are out to get the most work for the least expense. They are actively fighting on their own behalf to make this happen, at your expense. This is how people end up at the sucker-farm jobs. If you don't fight on your behalf, no one else will. It's only you and the employer in the interview, and the employer certainly is not going to be generous for no reason. You have to persuade them.

There are two good resources. One is "So Good They Can't Ignore You: Why Skills Trump Passion in the Quest for Work You Love" by Cal Newport. The other is "Pitch Anything" by Oren Klaff. While you probably will never need to pitch anything to investors, you absolutely need to be able to pitch yourself to potential employers if you want to escape the average workplace sucker-farm.

Here is a great interview with Oren Klaff: [http://youtu.be/fXavS_IY42A](http://youtu.be/fXavS_IY42A)

Ramit Sethi has a course, "How To Find Your Dream Job". Like most of his stuff, I expect it is pricey. You can probably find most of what he teaches for free (if you define "free" as doing your own research for many hours per week for a year or two). Here's how I look at his stuff in your situation. If I could pay $1000 and go from miserable to enjoying work and life, forever, is that worth it? I'd say yes. If you are serious about reworking your life, you will pay for this many times over. He has a ton of free material available, so you can see if you like his style before making an investment.

<comment><AUTHOR> Well, currently I am more interested rambling around different things. Recently, I created a whistle detector in JS[1] and it was quite an effort since it involved comprehending a research paper and learning & implementing DSP concepts but I enjoyed it. So, I more interested in creating small challenging things rather than Apps in XYZ framework.

Its not that I hate the latter but simply that after initial excitement of code, it is hard to keep up the enthusiasm. What I wish to know is are employers focused to find the right skill set with right experience when they want hire?

[1]: [http://coffeecoder.net/whistlerr/](http://coffeecoder.net/whistlerr/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER48> (This might get buried deep in the thread, but if you find it, read it)

I am assuming you are from India. I'm from Bangalore. I was in a very similar condition like yours.

I definitely can understand if you are staying in a city like Bangalore/Major- Indian-Metro, and have to travel and endure long traffic jams. And one more thing you should know about stuff like "flexible timings" is under the absence of discipline and good enough managers these policies will ultimately drive you to a disaster. There fore first get yourself a time table. As much as the teenagers may shout at this calling 'mediocrity' or whatever. Getting disciplined helps more than you can imagine.

To start with you should begin traveling in low-traffic hours. Start early from home, reach office early. I tend to follow GTD, if you like you can follow that too. Finish all important tasks by lunch. By the looks of what you say, you should be done with all your work by the time others are in office and settle down. There fore your afternoon will be spent in meetings, after your productive hours are exhausted. Leave office at exactly 5.

On the long term, keep a notebook. You should have a clear list[Not ambiguous/vague tasks] a goal with a clear end state. Plan your work and prioritize it, in the importance of what's best for you and the project. Refuse to sweat the small stuff. Meticulous pick only the most important parts of the project. If there just isn't any important work out there, talk to your manager and see if there are other projects around you and get transferred there. If there are absolutely no good projects in the company, please look for a new job. Please don't waste time sweating the small stuff. You are in your 20's and this is the kind of time you should be working on tough problems and building all the experience you would need later. You can do all this by having 1-1 meeting with your manager every 15 days. Write down what he expects from you, what you have achieved in the past 15 days from the goals set in previous 1-1 and if he is acknowledgement of all that.

Plan stuff and track all this in the notebook. Including your long term goals. Like learning a new framework, or buying a new car. Review how you are progressing every Saturday night, and take corrective steps necessary. And most important. Never forget to assign 'Next steps' to every task you complete. Because that's how new opportunities pop up.

Post 5 PM in the evening you should get decent time for your personal projects.

Lastly keeping a notebook has a its own advantages. You can see the timeline of what you've been planning, what you've been achieving, and what corrective actions you would like to take or have been taking. It will also give a complete record of everything you've done. Might just come in handy during a appraisal or a review session someday.

Humans are pretty bad at visualizing big timelines and structures, and remembering stuff. Without a record you will be lost, as time passes you won't know where you are. How much time you've lost. Heck you won't even what you did a week back and how you spent your time. This is why most of us feel much time has passed without we achieving any thing substantial. Because we don't have a record what we originally wanted, what steps we took, and what corrective actions and next steps we took. So at the end it just feels like time is flying while we aren't achieving much in the meanwhile.

</comment><comment><USER49> quit.</comment>


Review of The Social Network - <AUTHOR> http://scripting.com/stories/2010/10/01/reviewOfTheSocialNetwork.html <comment><USER2> I'm not interested in Z, so I won't see this flick. But I hope that more successful companies get positive movies made about them. Too many people down on capitalism, imo, and I find information on how people went from startup to large corporations very interesting.</comment>


Designing a timeless smartwatch - <AUTHOR> http://www.theverge.com/2014/3/7/5477768/gabor-balogh-circular-smartwatch-concept

<comment><USER2> I am dying to see something like this go to production. I absolutely love the functionality my pebble gives me, but I also would very much prefer to wear it as a proper watch, without it looking like a 10€ plastic toy :(

</comment><comment><USER3> Beautiful, but power management in a devices like these boggles the mind. Such little volume, so much display.

</comment><comment><USER4> you could get a steel and/or swap out the band and watch skin.</comment>


Two Tap(YC W14) Raises $2.7M Round For Its Shopping Cart For The Entire Internet - <AUTHOR> http://techcrunch.com/2014/08/07/two-tap-raises-2-7m-seed-round-for-its-shopping-cart-for-the-entire-internet/

<comment><USER2> congrats to the team! good work Radu :-)</comment>


Logic, Languages, Compilation, and Verification Technical Lectures - <AUTHOR> http://www.cs.uoregon.edu/research/summerschool/summer12/curriculum.html

<comment><USER2> This is better known as the OPLSS, Oregon Programming Languages Summer School. It's amazing and the lectures each year are absolutely chock-full of gems. Anyone interested in PLs should listen to a few if not actually attend!

</comment><comment><USER3> I attended the 2011 edition, and this was one of the best experiences I had during my PhD. Lots of brilliant people, amazing lectures, blue grass music, a rafting session, great beers and so much more. You have to go.</comment>


HBase: A Google Bigtable clone (new opensource project) - <AUTHOR> http://glinden.blogspot.com/2007/07/hbase-google-bigtable-clone.html

<comment><USER2> I wonder what the rationale is for not releasing stuff like BigTable and GFS? Yahoo or Microsoft wouldn't want to use it, just because it'd be embarrassing. Are they afraid of helping the startup that will eventually crush them?</comment>


The History of `import this` in Python - <AUTHOR> http://www.wefearchange.org/2010/06/import-this-and-zen-of-python.html

<comment><USER2> I did not know about this.

It would be a nice thing to add to 'Learning Python' (unless I missed it), and to some web Python howtos. It gets the point across.

</comment><comment><USER3> (tongue in cheek) There's no if __name__ == '__main__'. This doesn't seem pychecker / GSG compliant - importing a module shouldn't run anything. And how do they unit test an entire module?</comment>


Indian Power Ministry to sell LED bulbs at 16 cents - <AUTHOR> https://in.finance.yahoo.com/news/power-ministry-sell-led-bulbs-142619307.html

<comment><USER2> Meanwhile in Europe LEDs cost at least 4x time more that the equivalent incandescent bulb did.

<comment><USER3> That is a subsidized price, not the market price. They're buying locally manufactured bulbs for 204 rupees and selling them for 10 rupees.

Here in the USA electric utilities have previously provided subsidized CF bulbs. I haven't yet seen any subsidized LED bulbs.</comment></comment>


Architects have a lot to learn from the sound engineering of the ancients - <AUTHOR> http://nautil.us/issue/24/error/why-we-should-let-the-pantheon-crack <comment><USER2> This MIT professor looks like a very intelligent guy, and I agree with what he says, but the article shows that the reporter did not understand some things.

Plasticity theory is presented as an alternative to the finite element method, but in fact they are usually used together. While plasticity theory explains how materials deform, the FE method makes possible to apply this theory to complex structures.

In any case, the problem cannot be FEM, but how it is applied and how the results are interpreted. It is very likely (even expected) that applying the requirements used for steel or concrete structures to the Pantheon will give you wrong results, but that does not mean FEM is the problem. Blindly doing simulations without having a good model and being very careful of how boundary conditions are applied and how to interpret the results, on the other hand, is becoming a greater problem as the necessary hardware becomes more affordable.

</comment><comment><USER3> As a software "engineer", I've always been envious of architects and the well- defined path to mastery that exists in their field. You start off as a lowly apprentice and only through years of study and practice can you progress.

As a result, the best architects in the world are generally forty and above and there is a correlation between age and competence. There is no 22 year old rockstar architect. The bar of competence is so high that six months of concentrated effort is simply not sufficient for an outsider to become a professional architect.

<comment><USER4> I'm a software engineer that went through architecture school and I think you're glorifying architects a bit here.

The only reason why architects have a more gradual path as you describe is because there is a LOT of gatekeeping and feedback on your work is a LOT slower.

To become an architect you have to ideally go through schooling at a specific set of schools and then after that you have years of internships where you are at the mercy of the architect who supervises you. If you end up with a not-so- friendly boss you could end up working years of your youth in an unpaid internship and end up NOT getting any credit. That's years of delay to licensure. After getting enough credit and hours you still to take multiple exams, paying out of your own pocket, to get licensed. And unlike software, aspiring architects cannot spend a weekend or two to build projects on their own to put on a portfolio of work, and problems from anything you design can take months or years to crop up.

And even after all that only a tiny minority of architects end up in firms like SOM (like Google but for architects) and get to work in glamourous projects. The vast majority of architects just work on run-of-the-mill housing (not unlike CRUD apps) where the combination of building codes, the client's budget, zoning and other requirements often prevents you from doing anything too flashy.

The great thing about software really is the fact you have the independence and ability to build and publicize your own stuff whereas in all the other formal professions you can't without oversight.

<comment><USER5> > The vast majority of architects just work on run-of-the-mill housing (not > unlike CRUD apps) where the combination of building codes, the client's > budget, zoning and other requirements often prevents you from doing anything > too flashy.

In talking with civil, naval, and mechanical engineers that I know, this type of "crank out another one similar to the last one" work seems to be the norm. I used to be aerospace and thought it was just my company. New part designed, do the same type of analysis and write it up and send it to the FAA, they rubber stamp it. But it's remarkably similar in many fields. The civil guy I know says for every new road/bridge they review it's just the same shit over and over. It's just a white collar assembly line everywhere. It reduces errors and is efficient as a division of labor, but it's not very fun.

<comment><USER6> >> "crank out another one similar to the last one"

That's because they can't stand up a micro-service or API to crank those things out.

<comment><USER7> that should be your startup idea! "automate that boring civil engineering design with the agi 5000".

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> I found it interesting wandering around the ancient sites in Egypt to see what survived 4000 years. Granite was the easy winner followed by heaped structures of softer rocks.

<comment><USER9> The problem with that for architecture is most structures are meant to be occupied, and being inside a heaped structure of softer rocks isn't very nice. I do wish that I got to see a structure meant to last millennia built in my lifetime. On that timescale, I _just_ missed Mount Rushmore.

<comment><USER10> Considering how many structures from thousands of years ago are still around, I'd be shocked if there weren't any 21st-century buildings standing thousands of years from now.

<comment><USER11> Rebar makes buildings a lot stronger, but also has the unfortunate property of rusting. That makes it less strong and expands it, damaging other parts of the structure. It also is more or less everywhere.

Also, modern buildings often are designed for a given economical lifetime. If you order a structure that can be maintained for 50 years at $1M a year, that's what you will get. You likely can keep it standing for centuries, but at ever-increasing maintenance costs.

On the other hand, we are building so much that, statistically, something will be standing thousands of years from now.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> The article title is confusing architects with structural engineers.

<comment><USER13> On the other hand, some architects could stand to learn quite a bit from structural engineers...

<comment><USER14> >On the other hand, some architects could stand to learn quite a bit from structural engineers...

... and viceversa.

As said above as I see it the real issue is the (modern) separation/specialization of those professions.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> The Lindy Effect in action again. People should always seriously study things that have survived a long time, instead of downplaying them due to neophilia.

</comment><comment><USER16> Isn't part of this talent gained thru motivation, in turn judged necessary as they had "skin in the game"? [https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/18558/were- roma...](https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/18558/were-roman- engineers-required-to-stand-beneath-their-bridges-as-they-were-tested)

</comment><comment><USER17> I hope one day they say the same thing about us programmers of the present time.

Hello from 2018 and sorry about JavaScript!

</comment><comment><USER18> The megaliths of Bolivia and structures all over the world which man could not replicate prove this. It would seem that the more we turn our back on the natural world and our history, the more we hold ourselves back from break throughs in many areas.

<comment><USER19> Who says we can't replicate them? It's just not economical to do so and really serves no purpose. The world has generally moved past projects with superstitious/dubious meaning attached to them and does an actual cost/benefit on most large scale endeavors. Except for some developing countries with growing economies who have something to prove.

<comment><USER20> You are correct we probably can today. The biggest prehistoric megalith blocks are somewhere in the neighborhood of 1,500 tons, perfectly milled. The modern record for the largest structure lifted by crane is 20,000 tons. So we have an order of magnitude capability on be ancients.

However what is certainly true is that there was a long period in between where we couldn't. From at least 1000 BC to sometime in the 1900s AD it would've been physically impossible to recreate Baalbek. Yet somehow thousands of years before that ancient people did it.

My pet theory is they used compound reed boats, canals, and locks to do it. But in the end we don't know.

What's clear is there were people more similar to us than we are to the Elizabethans in terms of technological capability, and they were totally wiped out. No stories, other than myths, no pottery, no metals, nothing left of them except the most durable giant stone remnants.

In other words: the up and to the right trajectory of history is wrong. There are bigger cycles in civilization than all of history combined can illuminate.

<comment><USER21> I think we will find proof if we start digging into the flood deltas and the near shore oceans depths. The floods at the beginning and end of the younger dryas washed over most, if not all of the earths land mass, in a catastrophic way. Then the sea rises, burying the washed out remains of civilization under a few hundred feet of saltwater. If were going to find anything, I think it will be there. That's my hypothesis anyway.

<comment><USER20> Good idea.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Elon Musk's finances - <AUTHOR> http://www.economist.com/news/business/21709061-entrepreneurs-finances-are-jaw-dropping-inventive-and-combustible-his-space <comment><USER2> I have no problem whatsoever if Elon Musk destroys investor money to build new technological future. In fact, I fully encourage and support his endeavor as long as it's not my money.

Here is epic piece from Warren Buffet from November 22, 1999. Just five months before internet bubble collapsed he explained why he didn't invest in internet technology when everyone said that he was being stupid old fool. [http://archive.fortune.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive...](http://archive.fortune.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/1999/11/22/269071/index.htm)

> The key to investing is not assessing how much an industry is going to > affect society, or how much it will grow, but rather determining the > competitive advantage of any given company and, above all, the durability of > that advantage.

<comment><USER3> A 2010 decision, for example, eBay Domestic Holdings Inc. v. Newmark, held that corporate directors are bound by "fiduciary duties and standards" which include "acting to promote the value of the corporation for the benefit of its stockholders."

[http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2015/04/16/what-are- cor...](http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2015/04/16/what-are-corporations- obligations-to-shareholders/a-duty-to-shareholder-value)

Under US law there would be a problem if he did that.

<comment><USER4> If a CEO genuinely believed climate change was an existential threat wouldnt actions to mitigate it be acting in the interest of the shareholders even if the company loses money?

<comment><USER5> I don't think that follows. It would be in the interest of the shareholders for _someone_ to address the problem, but it would not be in their interest to volunteer to foot the bill.

<comment><USER6> It's not clear. If nobody else addresses the problem, or if someone else does it only with condition that this company also participates, or if not enough of others is working on it - in all these cases, and others, footing the bill could be beneficial for shareholders.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> _a business empire with a financial structure that works only if risky companies perform perfectly on ambitious plans_

Everyone talks about the wonders of capitalism and how risk is rewarded, but then someone comes along who is actually taking risks to achieve big objectives and the industry watchers collectively shit their pants.

<comment><USER8> > Everyone talks about the wonders of capitalism and how risk is rewarded

Yes, when that risk is spread across the system and the fundamentals are stable ventures.

Point being when all you do is take large risks, that's a problem.

(fwiw: long on tsla)

<comment><USER7> Musk is basically undertaking a moon shot: either a huge success or crash and burn. There's not much point keeping reserves.

<comment><USER9> > _Musk is basically undertaking a moon shot: either a huge success or crash > and burn._

I wish people would stop using the Apollo program as an example of an expensive gamble.

There was no market uncertainty. The problem was complex but the physics showed it could be done.

The overall plan was tested in multiple stages (which is why the first landing was by Apollo _11_ ) undertaken with _massive_ armies of bright folk overengineering the living daylights out of everything in view.

Meanwhile people call any old MVP a "moonshot" or a speculative research program a "moonshot" and it's just ... a poor analogy.

<comment><USER7> There are plenty of ways the moonshot could have failed. It just didn't fail so that's how it's remembered. Going from 'physics showed it could be done' to actually doing it is very hard and armies of bright people is not necessarily enough.

<comment><USER9> > _There are plenty of ways the moonshot could have failed._

Yes, and they were explored extremely thoroughly by Apollo missions 1 through 10.

<comment><USER7> Even well tested rockets still explode sometimes. Rockets are risky, complex, explosive machines. Ask an insurance company about it.

<comment><USER9> Taking us back to my original point: comparing an MVP or a pure research project to the Apollo program is silly.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> The whole article is failing to point out the biggest risks that the clean- tech companies are fighting against: global warming and lung cancer. Even though all older car companies have the ability right now to take a huge financial and PR risk, they're still not talking about the damage car emissions cause.

Tesla is the first company that convinced me to buy a new car instead of an 8 year old one, as I didn't see enough difference between the new and old cars before (except the price).

<comment><USER11> Most of the environmental impact of a car is in its manufacturing, so global warming is made worse by Tesla selling more cars instead of people buying older ones.

<comment><USER12> Tesla aims to make their cars last 10 times longer than the average gasoline car. There are less things that can go wrong with an electric car.

They are creating ways to increase utility on each car. Less people will need their own car.

Edit: I should clarify. Tesla is aiming to make their drive trains last 1m miles. Most car companies don't offer extended warranty past 100k miles. Normal car companies want you to buy a new car at that point.

[https://electrek.co/2015/11/04/musk-we-want-drive-units- that...](https://electrek.co/2015/11/04/musk-we-want-drive-units-that-just- never-wear-out-tesla-targets-powertrains-lasting-1-million-miles/)

<comment><USER13> Are you kidding me? 10 times longer lifespan is _huge_, if we assume the average car lasts only 10 years that would mean you'd be able to use a Tesla for 100 years. That is totally not happening, especially with Tesla's reluctance to share maintenance manuals. It seems, on the contrary, that the Tesla cars have lower life-span than classic combustion engine cars.

<comment><USER14> Elon has specifically said he's targeted a million miles of reliabiiity on the drivetrain. Maybe not 10 times longer, but still far more service life than a traditional ICE.

Tesla doesn't need to share the repair manuals. You're not touching the battery pack internals or the electric motors; if they fail, they are swapped out entirely and sent to the Gigafactory refurbishment line.

<comment><USER13> The Tesla is far more than a battery pack on wheels. There are plenty of things that can fail and need to be repaired. Failing to facilitate that means the lifespan of the car si significantly reduced.

<comment><USER14> Could you be specific what non-drivetrain components could fail that can't easily be swapped out on site or at a service center?

<comment><USER15> You mean other than the chassis, body panels, doors, undercarriage... Not to mention the question of repair costs and parts availability, both of which are pretty bad. Where are you going to get (say) a replacement for the incredibly complex and unreliable door handle mechanism for the Model S in a few years time once the car's no longer in production? The model-specific battery pack? All the electronics systems based around Nvidia chips that'll be long out of production?

<comment><USER14> As long as Tesla is still in business, replacements will be available. They still fully support the Roadster, even providing an updated battery pack at cost to owners.

Model specific battery packs? You're aware the battery packs are all the same form factor, correct? They have an 8 year battery/motor drivetrain warranty on the S and X models, which means they'll produce compatible packs for at least 8 years from the last vehicle of a model rolling off the line.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> > The proposed SolarCity acquisition illustrates this: by getting Tesla to buy > the struggling SolarCity, Mr Musk can keep it alive and maintain control.

Why doesn't the author believe Musk's claim that Tesla<->Solar City are merging in order to produce a superior product/service?

One company comes and installs both solar cells and batteries. The batteries help you get more value out of your solar cells. You don't have to schedule installations with separate companies, or use separate apps to manage them, or worry about different versions of each product interoperating with the other. If it's not working, there's one number to call, and one responsible party. Sales and marketing can be unified. Looking from the outside, it makes sense...

Am I missing something?

<comment><USER17> Shame on HN for downvoting you. This was a reasonable and thoughtful comment.

What you're missing is the skepticism that is so rampant in the media and especially on HN these days. It is certainly possible that they're merging to produce a superior experience. It's certainly possible that they're merging for financial reasons. It's certainly possible that the reality is some combination of both.

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> > or invoke the poison-pill provisions Tesla has in its statutes

Anyone know the details?

</comment><comment><USER19> Similar articles were written about Jeff Bezos and Amazon 20 years ago.

"no profit", "losing money every year", "unsustainable" etc...

I admire Musk. Not a huge fan of the way he is funding his goals but don't really care, do what you gota do, it's caveat emptor in the stock market.

Musk's companies are not even close to the riskiest financial structures among public companies.

Rooting for success of Tesla and SpaceX. But I don't own the stock.

Sometimes the financial press comes across like they don't want anything important to happen ever. Reward requires risk.

</comment><comment><USER20> He's doing an AMA today on Reddit. Exclusively about SpaceX though.

<comment><USER21> [https://www.reddit.com/r/spacex/comments/58yc14/elon_musk_wi...](https://www.reddit.com/r/spacex/comments/58yc14/elon_musk_will_be_doing_an_ama_on_rspacex_at_3pm/) 22:00 UTC

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> The $400m cash flow from pre-orders is an example of it being easier to tackle hard problems than easy ones.

A lot of people would rather risk money in Tesla then make money investing in a bank or an oil company.

<comment><USER10> The only problem here is that $1000/car is nothing compared to what they need to deliver in return: a huge manufacturing plant

</comment></comment><comment><USER22> Rescuing SolarCity seems like a waste to me. It's in a commodity business and is performing awfully. Why not just fold that hand and not saddle the stronger company with it?

<comment><USER23> Solar City is basically a bundle of loans that will pay off over the next 20 years. The company has lost a ton of money loaning out other people's money before govt solar subsidies expired. Now that it's at it's shittiest point, Musk/Tesla is swooping in and buying it at a discounted price, without spending a cent in the purchase. Musk is a genius.

</comment></comment><comment><USER24> I guess the whole thing hinges on Tesla producing and selling a lot of cars. Succeed and they are good, fail and it collapses. Best of luck to them.

</comment><comment><USER25> I'm suffering from Advanced Elon Musk fatigue!</comment>


Why Are Laptop Manufacturers Still Using Intel Processors over AMD? - <AUTHOR> https://www.pcquest.com/laptop-manufacturers-still-using-intel-processors-amd/ <comment><USER2> I don't think that has anything to do with "support". Intel had a sh*tload of problems with their laptop CPUs, (eg. bugs, coil-whine, security problems galore, etc.). The main reason is more likely long standing supply contracts of manufacturers. I'm not sure if AMD or their fabs even had the capacity to supply all the run-of-the-mill PC manufacturers.

<comment><USER3> I am not in a serious place of knowledge, but I don't know how much I agree with this.

Isn't TSMC making CPUs/GPUs for basically everyone; Apple(mobile, computer soon), Qualcomm, Samsung, AMD, Nvidia? Perhaps an argument can be made that those other companies get first dibs. However, I imagine if AMD showed up with an order for all Thinkpad made in 2021, things might be different because TSMC likely charges more per unit for AMD's bigger/ more complex (up to 20 Billion T) CPUs than say an 865.

Not to mention both the next gen game consoles are AMD 7nm zen setups. So if TSMC cares about volume more than per device profit, that is a boat-load of devices that are going to be produced for the next 7 years without much retooling.

I really think it might be support. AMD's 4800u is the vastly superior to Intel's 10nm offering, but that wasn't as true last gen. It was:

\- A wash, at similar clocks, in the single threaded workloads

\- Intel had a clock lead(still does)

\- AMD just had a slight core count lead

Of course, AMD totally lead on consumer pricing. That said, I imagine after decades of work with all the major computer manufacturers, Intel knew how to cut the right volume deal to make it worth HP or Dells time. Also what if a partner want some SSDs and wifi cards on the cheap, go Intel and another deal can be had without having to figure out where else to source parts from. What if a partner wants to cheap out on a model with a spinning disk but want the user to still be okay up front, intel optane cache cards do help things along and can't be used in cache mode with non-intel CPUs.

The landscape is way different post zen 2, AMD leads on all things but frequency and power efficiency. But lets say you want a 5 watt part, what does AMD offer? What about a 45 watt laptop part? How bout support for quickly and cheaply building / differentiating your bread and butter mainstream laptops? I know they seem like an afterthought to "pro" customers but things like Project Athena or the Ultrabook reference designs and branding might really help keep cost down while keeping visibility up. (I have no idea though)

Really though, I know that was long but I have no truly informed opinions. Care to expand?</comment></comment>


Ask YC: Dealing with cabin fever - <AUTHOR>

I work and sleep in my apartment and I've noticed that I'm starting to get the desire to get up and go somewhere... Anywhere really.<p>It's a fairly large and comfortable apartment, and I'm not unhappy been here. So, how do you people deal with cabin fever? <comment><USER2> I go buy some fresh food/vegetables at the store every day, at the very least. Initially, my wife didn't get why I went shopping every day "just go once and get more stuff!", but then she figured out that it's the only time I get out of the house and doesn't mind. It's nice to have fresh stuff in terms of fruit and vegetables and we waste less because I only buy what we need.

Some actual exercise and/or interaction with other people is probably better though - during the summer I got out mountain biking pretty often.

</comment><comment><USER3> Going for a run is good. Then you get both out and exercise.

<comment><USER4> I agree! I'm an avid runner partly because sitting all day at a computer makes me jittery and it gives me a severe need to expend physical energy.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> I sometimes visit my friend's office - setup my laptop and work in an empty cubicle / conference room for a few hours, go grab lunch with my buddies and then head back to my office; I try to do this at least once a week; My other option to break the monotony is to sometimes visit the library and setup shop there (especially if I have to read/review/reference materials )

</comment><comment><USER6> ...build a startup to help people get out and do things.

No really.

Coming soon to a terminal near you.

(in the meantime, it's cool to try to strike up conversations with people reading bulletin boards, do street improv, or bring a Frisbee to a park and see what happens.)

<comment><USER7> _(in the meantime, it's cool to try to strike up conversations with people reading bulletin boards, do street improv, or bring a Frisbee to a park and see what happens.)_

Ha... I thought I was the only who did that.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> Go outside?

The human mind works well in 45-minute intervals (obviously this isn't always practical, but even working on something related-but-easier for 10-15 minutes between two 45-minute intervals) so I try to step away from the computer every 45-90 minutes, give or take.

</comment><comment><USER9> People are social animals. Living and working by yourself 24/7 is a recipe for burn-out, maladjustment, and general unhappiness. I'd recommend finding some ongoing events to draw you out of the house: volunteer with a local charity, or join a programmers' group in your area.

Try to spend at least an hour a day interacting with people you don't see every other day. (I.e., not a live-in significant other or a business partner.)

<comment><USER10> If you are in a funk, go to somewhere with a lot of people and say hi with a smile to first twenty people you cross paths with. The first 15 probably won't respond but once you cross a magic line and people start smiling back you'll feel more connected

<comment><USER11> If I get sick of being home, I head out to a movie. The important thing is to interact with other humans, so call a friend or go somewhere by yourself and make an effort to be gregarious. I find it doesn't take much to recharge.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> Our "company" works out of a house and we rarely get out, but we always make sure that we go to the YMCA at night (while there everyone splits up to do their thing).

Aside from that, we make sure that we know what needs to get done because if you're focused on the task at hand, the days go by faster.

</comment><comment><USER13> I'm working in a research assistant position at my college and spend a fair bit of time wandering the campus. I know it pretty well, I've been here for 6 years ;) but it's nice to just see random people.

Also, getting on our bus line and riding it around for a loop or two is really useful.

</comment><comment><USER14> I used to have the same problem and tried a lot of the things mentioned here, but nothing helped.

Then it took me the longest time to realize that when I "started to get the desire to get up and go somewhere", that was a clear signal from deep inside me that something was wrong.

This may sound kind of weird, but my project is my baby and I'm in love with it. Why would I ever want to be somewhere else? Because either a) I'm burnt out or b) Something is wrong with what I'm currently doing.

If it's (a), get out and exercise, socialize, etc.

But if it's (b), stop and take a good look at what you're currently doing. Maybe your "inner hacker" knows it's not right.

</comment><comment><USER15> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coworking>

<comment><USER6> Hey, thanks! I was hoping I wasn't the only one with this idea. <http://www.berkeleycoworking.com/> is just 15 minutes from my apartment, and in a cool area. :-)

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> I've been doing the same thing for a few years now. I try to "leave the house" - shopping, eating out, etc - every day. Having a dog also helps.

I am happiest when I have an active social life (out 2-4 times a week), although this can be difficult to maintain.

</comment><comment><USER7> Join one or more clubs so that you have events to go to at least four times a week.

Also, pick clubs that are more than just social get-togethers, but will help you improve something (my main two are Toastmasters and Aikido, e.g.).

</comment><comment><USER17> Always find a way to go outside at least once daily.

Start going to the gym, go for runs, pick up fresh groceries for dinner, do some light work at cafes.

</comment><comment><USER18> I spend a lot of time in the San Francisco main library and in cafes. It's nice to be around people and to be somewhere other than my room.

</comment><comment><USER19> Going swimming.

Sitting on Place St. Georges people watching.

</comment><comment><USER20> Grab your laptop and head to the nearest Starbucks or coffee shop. I find I need to constantly change locations at least every four hours to keep productive and prevent my mind from going "stale". Thank god I work at a university where I can just hop around from the library to other common areas.

Try changing where you usually sit and work in your apartment. I sit in all kinds of weird places. My new favorite place is on top of my desk. Don't knock it until you try it.

<comment><USER21> The GTD crowd would hate this! lol.

I'm not as mobile as you, but I sit on the couch and work every once in a while.

It helps me to just put it away at times like lunch and dinner. (I'm in ohio, so the 'outside' options are limited right now)

<comment><USER20> I believe the good book Allen states that your GTD system can be mobile. I think I even remember David saying he uses a mobile version with folders in his suitcase.

<comment><USER22> Or just wait for the GTD fad to pass.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> Go spank the monkey in an outdoor and semi-public area.

Trust me, works 50% of the time, every time.

<comment><USER24> Looks like news.yc is getting pretty close to the shark ramp.</comment></comment>


Covid-19 vaccine: Final stage of Oxford trial paused after participant falls ill - <AUTHOR> https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/astrazeneca-coronavirus-vaccine-trial-pause-hold-b420761.html <comment><AUTHOR> I'm submitting this because there's some fear about the possibility that vaccines are going to be rushed out and thus unsafe. Here's one example where vaccine development and testing is paused because of a single incident of illness that _may_ have been caused by a trial vaccine.

<comment><USER2> Do you find it interesting that you chose to post this but not to post any of the many articles stating that the trial was resumed only 2 days later?</comment></comment>