Dos & Don'ts Upon Taking a New Job - <AUTHOR> http://www.hunterwalk.com/2011/12/14-dos-donts-upon-taking-new-job.html <comment><USER2> The rules, for anyone else who doesn't want to squint at a faded, crooked scan:

Al Casey's Rules for Success

SOME DO'S AND DON'TS UPON TAKING A NEW JOB -- (NOT IN ANY ORDER OF PRIORITY) -- ALL ARE IMPORTANT

1\. If you want to get ahead in this world become a highly-concerned observer of the passing scene.

2\. LISTEN, LISTEN, LISTEN -- don't try to show off your knowledge -- it will become known as you use it -- if your mouth is open you are not learning.

3\. Mentally challenge everything -- not vocally -- particularly the assumptions that you are built into the situation.

4\. Really listen to your peers -- get them to like you -- they are your best resource.

5\. Do all possible to help your boss raise his/her status.

6\. Develop a business plan for every assignment you are given -- allocate your time and resources -- develop calendar checkpoints.

7\. Your availability is your most important asset -- it should be directed up, down, and sideways.

8\. Work at giving the perception and the fact that you are aware of the feelings and goals of others.

9\. On entering a new situation, get an organization chart of your department showing names and responsibilities of your peers -- walk the halls and let others see you.

10\. Ask for help and show that you appreciate it, is the best way to make friends.

11\. Do not try to impress others by relating your educaion, travels, or accomplishments -- they will all become known in time.

12\. Do what you say you will do -- if you can't, let that be known.

13\. Your first assignment is to become part of the team and not its leader.

14\. Be early and stay late -- do not plan any social luncheons for the first six months.

</comment><comment><USER3> A few of these were okay but many were utterly toxic. Would anybody here wish to work in a tech company which didn't care for fresh opinions, where employees were taught to dogmatically follow authority and play politics?

Perhaps I'm not the target market since I work in a tech company and value creativity and passion, but it would take me all of a few days to run away from a company that had these values. Especially those that tell you to be agreeable, suck up to authority and to not the rock the boat. For example: don't share your knowledge and shut up; mentally challenge yourself but don't let people know what you're thinking; get people to like you; become a 'part' of a team; do everything you can to give your boss a higher status; be seen in the corridors and stay late but don't be too social by having lunch with people...

This is horribly disrespectful and a sure-fire way of hurting innovation and making everything political. I understand nobody wants arrogant employees that don't respect the team, but people should be hired because of the talent and experience they bring a company. They should be hired to help improve a company and not forced into being cogs in a machine. Let them be human; they should be respectful and participative members of your company, not passive slaves!

Hire people because you respect them and want to see them use their past experiences and talent to help you. Care about the fresh opinions they bring to your organisation and respect them for this. Help them to take ownership of their thoughts and participate fully in the company. Help them to grow the confidence to take control of their lives in and out of work.

<comment><USER4> I didn't read it this way. _Don't try to show off your knowledge -- it will become known as you use it._ I think he was advising to take some time to just absorb the new environment. Nobody wants a new guy to come in and start advocating obnoxiously for everything he was doing at his last job.

If you take time to understand some of the history and reasons for why things are the way they are, you might come to realize it makes sense, or you will be able to build an effective case for change once people have come to respect your abilities (proven by doing, not talking).

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> From the guidelines:

If the original title begins with a number or number + gratuitous adjective, we'd appreciate it if you'd crop it. E.g. translate "10 Ways To Do X" to "How To Do X," and "14 Amazing Ys" to "Ys." Exception: when the number is meaningful, e.g. "The 5 Platonic Solids."

</comment><comment><USER6> "Do not plan any social luncheons for the first six months" I am not sure about this one. Networking seems important to me.

<comment><USER7> I believe that he's using term social to describe individuals outside your work (e.g. no lunches with personal friends). As you state networking is very important when you first start a job and the rest of the tips are geared to network effectively (find the organisational chart so you know who are the right people to meet).

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> A better list might be found in the _Unwritten Laws of Engineering_ by WJ King.

</comment><comment><USER9> Also, don't blame the boss for having his own interests at heart, not the company's. It's the company's fault for encouraging him to act that way.</comment>


The deepening data center skills crisis  - <AUTHOR> http://www.networkworld.com/supp/2010/ndc1/020810-ndc-management.html

<comment><USER2> This kind of article rings hollow with me since it seems like some company out there is always complaining about not finding just the right cog to fit in their machine. Yes, the great candidates are few and far between, but it's not like companies are forbidden from teaching/mentoring a few qualified individuals every now and then...

IT needs are changing. There won't be enough job candidates with $DESIRABLE_ATTRIBUTES, obviously, because $DESIRABLE_ATTRIBUTES aren't taught (formally), are acquired through experience, are in demand right now, and weren't a few years ago.

Dwight Gibbs of Input says: "This isn't just about crimping cable, installing OSes and racking and stacking IP anymore." Right, Mr Gibbs, but a few years ago, that's _exactly_ what it was about. I remember applying for jobs a few years back with (basically) those exact requirements.

</comment><comment><USER3> We'll put projects on hold for months and months, but we'd _never_ hire someone with some of the needed skills and let them learn the rest....</comment>


The big lie about Mother Teresa: glorifying suffering instead of relieving it - <AUTHOR> http://www.salon.com/2016/01/03/the_wests_big_lie_about_mother_teresa_her_glorification_of_suffering_instead_of_relieving_it_has_had_little_impact_on_her_glowing_reputation/ <comment><USER2> Not a word about Hitchens? He had been writing about this for over 20 years.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Missionary_Position](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Missionary_Position)

<comment><USER3> In my experience, bringing up Hitch in this context has been highly counterproductive to discussion. People tend to look at his assessment of Teresa as nothing more than an extension of his anti-theistic views. Obviously, this doesn't stand up to scrutiny, but it happens nonetheless.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> A similar WP story from 2015, posted to HN in December: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10762326](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10762326)</comment>


Google self-driving car crashes were covered up - <AUTHOR> https://www.salon.com/2018/10/16/googles-self-driving-cars-involved-in-unreported-crashes/ <comment><USER4> This is just a sensationalist snippet from the long read from the New Yorker that was on hacker news yesterday. The engineer responsible was fired from Google for forming his own company and eventually went to Uber which was the cause of the massive lawsuit between the two, he's now close to unemployable. Since that incident 4 years ago it's pretty clear a lot has changed -but one thing that hasn't changed is Google's constant misrepresentation of their safety record.

<comment><USER5> The crash was in 2011. Levandowski was fired in January 2016 only after he tried to recruit other employees.

It demonstrates very well how they prioritize safety vs. potential profit.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> Did Google pay off the Camry driver? If I was pushed into an accident by a car with company decals and a sensor suite on top [1], I'd definitely include this when reporting the accident. It's an incredible story, and I'm not sure whether I say that in it's literal or figurative meaning. (Note that the author of the article is Charles Duhigg, a Pulitzer-price winning journalist - so it's not just a story posted by some dude on his blog).

[1] [https://i.ytimg.com/vi/cdgQpa1pUUE/maxresdefault.jpg](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/cdgQpa1pUUE/maxresdefault.jpg) (This is the type of cars they had in 2012).

<comment><USER5> What I understood from the article is that they left the scene without reporting it.

There was another incident they never reported. The other driver was undocumented and he also preferred not to report.

<comment><USER6> > The other driver was undocumented and he also preferred not to report.

I don't live in the US, so I don't know - but is that common? To me, it sounds like a significant accident, and I fail to understand why it wouldn't be reported.

<comment><USER7> The undocumented person may have not had insurance which would be one set of problems, or might have thought they would be at fault to some degree - <USER2> in an accident with someone injured would have involved police - <USER3> circumstances leading to contact with authorities could have led to deportation. It is not common to not have insurance but even in the case of people here legally, those without insurance commonly run from accidents because of the penalties for not having insurance. There is also the case of people with insurance but having a lot of driving penalty points (for speeding/running stop signs or lights) running or attempting to pay cash to avoid involving insurance because they have very expensive insurance due to driving history and do not want to get forced into an even higher insurance bracket.

<comment><USER6> That makes a lot of sense, thanks for the explanation!

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> How does a man require multiple surgeries to his spine from an accident but the company paying for those surgeries claims the accident isn't known?

That's about as amazing as Hollywood accounting.

<comment><USER6> Playing the devils advocate here: There was (apparently) no physical contact between the cars, so one could just tell a different story about the type of accident, or just leave out that the Camry then pinwheeled into the median. (Reason for lying about it could be that they drove the car in autonomous mode on 'forbidden routes' and feared repercussions).

Having said that - I doubt that's how things happened.

<comment><USER9> 'pinwheeled into the median' sounds like loosing control...

That only is likley to happen if someone hits someone else...

<comment><USER6> It doesn't sound like the cars collided. The original story [1] includes more details, but it definitely sounds like a collision was avoided, and that avoidance caused the spine injury and the Camry pinwheeling.

> The cars continued speeding down the freeway side by side. The Camry's > driver jerked his car onto the right shoulder. Then, apparently trying to > avoid a guardrail, he veered to the left; the Camry pinwheeled across the > freeway and into the median. Levandowski, who was acting as the safety > driver, swerved hard to avoid colliding with the Camry, causing Taylor to > injure his spine so severely that he eventually required multiple surgeries.

> The Prius regained control and turned a corner on the freeway, leaving the > Camry behind.

[1] [https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/10/22/did-uber- steal...](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/10/22/did-uber-steal- googles-intellectual-property)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> So, does that mean the "spotless safety record" meant "you can't _find_ anything about our mistakes"? That doesn't sound creepy at all, nonono.

<comment><USER11> Everyone games the mandatory safety reporting. Mostly by doing testing under the radar and/or outside California. Google has taken that a step further by counting disengagements (meaning instances of the system failing and having to be overriden by the driver) only when the system would definitely have crashed.

<comment><USER5> > only when the system would definitely have crashed.

With no external oversight, no transparency, and a sketchy record of honest reporting.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> All the tech aside (because I suppose they'll kind of get it done sooner or later), what I really want to know on this subject is: who's legally responsible in the case of an accident?

</comment><comment><USER13> This is the worst article i ever read. Its suggestive, and it point to 2014. Its just trying to get viewers.

<comment><USER5> It's better than the usual BS which is just repackaged PR coming from Waymo, Uber, and the other self-driving car promoters.</comment></comment>


Why Gen Z's 'ok boomer' retort–and the responses to it–are so powerful - <AUTHOR> https://medium.com/there-is-no-design/if-youre-mad-about-ok-boomer-you-re-part-of-the-problem-a571b5b85d68 <comment><USER2> This quote from the article exemplifies why this term is a problem:

"If you have to say 'the n-word' you know it's worse than 'Boomer', you moldy sentient banana."

As used in the context of the article, "boomer" is a clear cut case of othering, just like any of the more traditionally offensive terms used to other. No, I am not technically a "baby boomer". I do however feel that ageist comments just like racist and sexist comments should be called out as inappropriate. Whatever the "ist" is that is the genesis of the label, it is irrelevant. I would rather not be called by some label used to other me with hostility and I am sure most would agree with that.

There are lots of terms tossed around today that are used with hostility that currently fly under the radar of what is unacceptable. Unfortunately, we have found a new one to use.

<comment><USER3> "OK, boomer" doesn't really work that well as an insult anyway since it's easily flipped around as "OK zoomer". Both Wikipedia ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoomer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoomer) under "Other uses") and the Urban Dictionary have an attestation of zoomer as a reference to Gen Z, so they'll know what it means.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> It's a bit facile. The argument is basically "if you're offended by it, then you're the kind of person it's meant for".

Let's just see how that would fly with "ok bitch". Or "ok [insert epithet of choice]", for that matter.

<comment><USER5> I find this whole getting upset over "ok boomer" thing hilarious!

Older people (including boomers) have been complaining for a long time about PC culture.

Now, they are upset because the younger generation isn't being PC with them.

That is ironic!!!

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> I must say, as the child of immigrants, I'm mystified at why "They don't get that Gen Z is going to be the first generation that has a lower quality of life than those prior." is seen as a valid complaint. Is it some kind of American-only thing?

The country of my forefathers had its cities leveled and millions of deaths in a war and, so those that survived it and the chaotic aftermath (which includes my parents) definitely had a lower quality of life than the preceding generation. And given the way the world is changing, the possibility of it happening again doesn't seem so remote as it once did. I can't recall ever having any certainty of the future being better than the past.

<comment><USER6> Assuming you're talking about World War 2, the US not only went through that relatively unscathed, but also made a ton of money bankrolling the reconstruction of Europe, Russia and Japan. So yes, it's basically a US thing.

<comment><USER7>
      the US not only went through that relatively unscathed

Well, sure, if you ignore the over 400,000 combat dead... which was more than _double_ France's losses, and also greater than England's.

Bear in mind that's mostly young men who never saw their peak earnings years, so consider their economic impact as well.

<comment><USER6> _relatively_ unscathed.

The rest of the world had their cities burned to the ground, and their infrastructures and economies destroyed. Russia lost _millions_ of people. Japan was victim to the only atomic bombs thus far used in warfare. What the US went through, comparatively, while not nothing, was still a cakewalk.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> There is something ugly about automatic contempt of 74.1 million people.</comment>


ASK HN: SAAS liability insurance? - <AUTHOR> We are a US-based, somehow successful, but still a small SAAS business, with many customers. We have a solid product and good T&C, but we were almost sued recently. As a founder, this was one of the most stressful experiences of my life. As much as we go crazy on keeping high quality, I know this is just a matter of time, a customer will claim our support or our product did something that cost them millions.<p>Do you have any liability insurance for your SAAS? When I search for liability insurance online, most results look super scammy. Any company you can recommend? <comment><USER2> There is no insurance for "a customer claims that your product cost them millions". You will come across some clients who claim that regardless of what happened. However, you could buy something called "Errors and Omissions" (E&O) which is an insurance for disasters in case something happens to customer data etc due to your fault. I have used a broker called techinsurance which seem to be decent:

[https://techinsurance.com](https://techinsurance.com)

also, hire a lawyer to get solid T&C in place and make sure that customers are aware of any changes in T&C. Keep a good relationship with the lawyer and make sure that any potential legal challenges are discussed with the lawyer. It will cost you a bit but provides peace of mind.

If a client is threatening to sue, get the lawyer involved.

</comment><comment><USER3> We've used [https://foundershield.com/](https://foundershield.com/) for a few years now. They have managed to help us from a small E&O and supplier liability insurance, as well as cyber liability– to a much larger international insurance spanning multiple organizations.

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> AN UPDATE: after an intensive research, it looks like foundershield is a company many people recommend. I am getting a quote from them and it seems pretty reasonable. I wish I could find somebody who filed a claim with them an got money.

</comment><comment><USER4> I'd stop doing business with a man who threaten me (if he is the boss. If he is an employee, I'd try to see that with the boss).

You can't protect you for that of it will be very expensive. You can proactively search for a good lawyer.

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> Thank you for the suggestions. I will contact those companies for a quote.

I am wondering, are there any stories companies filling a claim and getting money? I actually have a hard time finding any stories of SAAS companies being sued.</comment>


High-res pics of the Raspberry Pi PCBs - <AUTHOR> http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/402 <comment><USER2> This is something that is creeping me out about the Pi, does the processor exist? I know that is a weird question but if you go to the Broadcom site and search for BCM 2835 it doesn't find anything, if you search for it you can find this page: <http://www.broadcom.com/products/BCM2835> but that has no real data on the chip. The great guys at Octopart.com can't find it either.

It supposed to run Linux but without a datasheet for the CPU and its peripheral how does it do that? And what sort of support will Broadcom offer?

The FAQ says _"In general, you need to look to see whether the program you want can be compiled for the ARMv6 architecture."_ , ARM V6 (aka ARM 11) rather than Cortex architecture seems a bit behind kinda.

And the discussions in the forums about details of the chip being redacted in comments here: [http://www.raspberrypi.org/forum?mingleforumaction=viewtopic...](http://www.raspberrypi.org/forum?mingleforumaction=viewtopic&t=36)

Then we compare the T.I. OMAP 4430 chip (used in the Chumby, Pandaboard, etc) which is the only other ARM chip that can do HD Video and it costs $15/chip in quantity.

As someone who has built this sort of thing in the past I am really wondering if they are going to pull it off or flame out. Clearly I hope they pull it off but am really wondering how.

<comment><USER3> I work for the Raspberry Pi Foundation, and I can assure you that the chip exists. If you do a bit more googling, you'll find it's in already out there in the millions in other devices - the Roku set top box, for example.

That thread you linked to is from early on in the summer, before we had finished negotiations with our vendors and had documentation in place that allowed us to say that the SoC we are using is the BCM2835. If you search for BCM2835 on our website, you'll see that since then there's a lot of discussion about it with the name there in full.

We're all on track to have the first units out by the end of the year (which will be auctioned) and to be producing them in large numbers in January - there's not much more I can say to dampen your speculation, so I guess you'll just have to wait so you can watch us pull it off.

<comment><USER2> This is perhaps the best news I've heard today. I don't suppose you could liberate a datasheet from Broadcom and post it to your web site somewhere could you? I'm totally down for 10 of those $35 boards but I want to be able to talk to the graphics side of the chip and have had no luck at all getting any information at all from Broadcom. OMAP docs I've got coming out of my ears though.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Really excited about the pi, I can see lots of hackers doing interesting things with these.</comment>


Recipe for success: He was worth $40 million at 18 - <AUTHOR> http://getahead.rediff.com/report/2009/oct/16/recipe-for-success-he-was-worth-40-million-at-18.htm <comment><USER2> A recipe is something that will work for almost anyone under any circumstance, this is an anecdote.

Selling your company to yahoo for an idiotic amount of money was a thing that happened to a few people a while ago, but it is not a thing that you could easily repeat today.

(broadcast.com ? geocities ?)

This guy got very lucky. Sure he worked hard enough and sure he made it count but that goes for any period, it gives you a slight advantage. The environment of the time was in large part the difference between a living and silly money.</comment>


Your startup is probably already beating the odds - <AUTHOR> http://streaming.nfm.id.au/beating-the-odds

<comment><USER2> Ok, so I'm in the 0.05% - I think one of the biggest tricks is staying there ... plod & push, etc. My biggest frustration is impatience!! Daily reminder is that a year ago, my site didn't even exist! You are right, we are beating the odds. BTW... I followed on Twitter! We should help each other build those numbers!!

</comment><comment><USER3> Love this. It's almost a list of things you should set as priorities for your startup.

How do we get started on development? How do we get to launch? How do we get blogged about? How do we get a paying customer?</comment>


Problems with DSLs for non-programmers - <AUTHOR> https://artur-martsinkovskyi.github.io//2019/dsls-are-hoax/ <comment><USER3> The argument here boils down to: I haven't seen it work in places where I've been employed so it must not work.

Reality check: I've worked on multiple large research teams that successfully developed DSLs still in use by domain experts -- military sigint in one case, doctors in another case, industrial engineers in another.

We developed these languages for specific applications where the domain experts needed to program extremely complex systems to perform tasks in much shorter timeframes than would be possible if programmers needed to get involved.

Why did these DSLs succeed? Funding, manpower, and experienced project managers who delivered constant access to domain experts.

Delivering a successful DSL targeted at narrow domains with non-programmer users is much more resource-intensive than normal software--it's more on the complexity level of a compiler or small OS--but that doesn't mean it can't or shouldn't be done. Plenty of systems couldn't be automated otherwise.

<comment><USER4> Anyone who thinks DSLs for the general public can't work has never used Excel. The real trick is creating a domain model that "clicks" in the heads of your users.

<comment><USER5> The counterpoint would be Visual Basic. It was meant for non- engineers/managers to be able to write programs, but that never really happened. It was always easier for a manager to write an email 'I need an app that does X' than to write the app themselves.

<comment><USER6> There's one key I've seen to DSLs that _really_ work: scope your DSL with iron.

You should be able to clearly say 'This DSL can do X. It cannot do Y.'

(Then, if Y sometimes needs to get done, provide an escape hatch integration point to C et al.: but don't _ever_ expand your DSL beyond the domain!)

<comment><USER4> You can see this with how VB became much more monstrous and complex as soon as they tried to shoehorn in a multi-table paradigm.

<comment><USER6> I think later-legacy-VB (eg 6) suffers harshly from failing to properly separate primatives.

Imho (open to disagreement), one should think _incredibly_ hard before adding primatives to a DSL. Because what that's essentially saying is "My abstraction was incomplete over the target domain, and now I'm going to hack something in." And now you have a "domain + some other stuff" language, which starts to look like a general purpose language.

SQL vs VB is an excellent example of focus.

(Although I do think VB.net added sanity back to the mix, by saying more clearly "These are VB things" and "These are .net things", and if you want to do the latter in the former, just make a library call)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> > The last time I had a business analyst that wanted to write SQL, he tripped > over one join and asked me to do the job. SQL is used widely, but it does > not work that well for people who are not programmers. HTML and XML were > also originally intended for non-programmers - where are they now? They are > used by amateurs or enthusiasts sometimes, but most of the time programmers > do the job.

At both is my last two jobs (SaaS and e-commerce startups), the marketing teams had several individuals proficient in SQL. Hell, in some ways (complex read only queries) they were probably better than me simply because they did it more often. There existed BI tools and dashboards for many things, but the savvier and more curious individuals always wanted to dig further out experiment with queries before getting them formalized like that.

Members of the email team knew a fair bit of HTML and CSS too. And email is not what I'd consider one an easy HTML medium.

Due to these examples, I can't agree with the article at all. Must be a selection bias experienced by author.

<comment><USER8> My experience has been there are definitely people who become very proficient with sql while not knowing any other programming but they generally hit a ceiling. For most people they can do joins and some basic nesting but they start getting out of their elements if you mention window functions, ctes etc

<comment><USER7> I'm just one data point, but this group I'm thinking of uses a LOT of CTEs. Perhaps too many - they seem to always have a bunch in their saved queries, personal notepad, etc and would probably benefit from being allowed to create views so that they'd have smaller queries with fewer WITH clauses.

Seeing things like the above or spreadsheet power users really makes me think that "everyone should learn to code" education / literacy initiatives could be a very good idea if done properly.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> I've met many non-programmers who are quite comfortable with SQL. There are many smallish scripting languages that should qualify as DSLs that allow lay access to domains that mystify normal people. Excel comes to mind. Mathematica used to be one of these before it became a real general-purpose programming language, if a somewhat limited one.

The author appears to be projecting their personal convictions onto everyone else.

<comment><USER10> I agree that DSLs can work for non-devs, and Excel is a good example of this.

SQL though, I'm less convinced about - while I've known business people to use it for _basic_ queries, many _devs_ struggle with anything more complex.

<comment><USER11> That many professional developers are worse at SQL than professional non- developers is an indictment of those developers, not SQL.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> I think it's better to call the users of such high-level DSLs, _accidental programmers_. It's not like they are not programmers, its just that they don't see software development as their vocation or profession. Yes, it's important to have languages that target them (e.g. Excel, Latex, SQL). Design of such DSLs is important and hard work. We need more professional activity making DSLs usable, consistent, and extensible.

<comment><USER13> The research community calls them end-user programmers: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/End- user_development](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/End-user_development)

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> Reminds me of a speech rms gave about programmable editors. Money quote:

" Multics Emacs proved to be a great success — programming new editing commands was so convenient that even the secretaries in his office started learning how to use it. They used a manual someone had written which showed how to extend Emacs, but didn't say it was a programming. So the secretaries, who believed they couldn't do programming, weren't scared off. They read the manual, discovered they could do useful things and they learned to program."

[https://www.gnu.org/gnu/rms-lisp.en.html](https://www.gnu.org/gnu/rms- lisp.en.html)

<comment><USER15> Related: Steve Yegge discussed use of Emacs for a customer-email processing application at Amazon:

[https://sites.google.com/site/steveyegge2/tour-de- babel](https://sites.google.com/site/steveyegge2/tour-de-babel) (2004)

""" _Shel wrote Mailman in C, and Customer Service wrapped it in Lisp. Emacs- Lisp. You don 't know what Mailman is. Not unless you're a longtime Amazon employee, probably non-technical, and you've had to [directly talk to customers]._ [....]

 _Mailman was the Customer Service customer-email processing application for ... four, five years? A long time, anyway. It was written in Emacs. Everyone loved it._

 _People still love it. To this very day, I still have to listen to long stories from our non-technical folks about how much they miss Mailman. I 'm not shitting you. Last Christmas I was at an Amazon party, some party I have no idea how I got invited to, filled with business people, all of them much prettier and more charming than me and the folks I work with here in the Furnace, the Boiler Room of Amazon. Four young women found out I was in Customer Service, cornered me, and talked for fifteen minutes about how much they missed Mailman and Emacs, and how Arizona (the JSP replacement we'd spent years developing) still just wasn't doing it for them._

 _It was truly surreal. I think they may have spiked the eggnog._

 _Shel 's a genius. Emacs is a genius. Even non-technical people love Emacs. I'm typing in Emacs right now. I'd never voluntarily type anywhere else. It's more than just a productivity boost from having great typing shortcuts and text-editing features found nowhere else on the planet. I type 130 to 140 WPM, error-free, in Emacs, when I'm doing free-form text. I've timed it, with a typing-test Emacs application I wrote._ """

<comment><USER16> It's funny how some Smug Emacs Lisp-guy are confronted with why the Emacs with extension mail client was deprecated. It must have been some life changing experience chatting with non Smug Emacs Lisp-guys people actually wanting to use Emacs.

I can quite understand why you would want Emacs for Customer support emailing, with the ability to semi-automate tasks and extend extensions. If it's your full time job to write quite similar emails, it's probably worth the effort.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> To add another counterexample into the mix, I've met many artists and designers who are proficient with Unreal Engine's Blueprint with no C++ experience. Some have even shipped games made entirely in blueprint with no traditional code.

<comment><USER18> To add to that: Clickteam's Multimedia Fusion 2 Developer, which I learned to make games with back in elementary school. It is strictly (although not exclusively) "no code." Hell, one of my favorite indie games of all time, Knytt Stories, was made in it.[1]

[1]: [https://web.archive.org/web/20160821143752/http://nifflas.ni...](https://web.archive.org/web/20160821143752/http://nifflas.ni2.se/?page=Knytt+Stories)

</comment></comment><comment><USER19> The SQL example is rediculous. I wasn't a programmer when I decided to use SQL, but learned it to be better at my job. After I learned it everyone else thought what I could acheive was magic. I only had read access so I had to be able to perform advanced subqueries, windowing statements , etc. After a couple of years my skills could embarrass most programmers in the company (minus the Oracle dbas). This is because the programmers wanted to write SQL in a proceedural way using plsql and were never very comfortable with set theory.

This knowledge expanded my power within a mutibillion dollar company and I went from temp analyst to director of supply chain business system and informatics within 3.5 years. I also decided to learn python due to the data libraries, and my power grew more as I automated most routine processes in my department. I required every employee of mine to learn SQL and gave them 3 hrs every Friday for self study. Our supply chain went from being ranked 340 in the country ( for our industry) to the within the top 10.

Don't tell me non programmers can't learn SQL. Also these DSL get people like me that should of gotten a CS degree the experience and confidence to get deeper into programming. Now I write python and clojure. In fact, because I have deep domain specific knowledge in supply chain I can apply my programming in ton of different ways. I find most corporate programmers have all these skills and either don't really know how to apply it to really help the business, are too lazy and think of the business stakeholders as a annoyance, or just do their job and go home.

I think it is going to be hard to bea white collar worker in the future if you don't know how to program.

</comment><comment><USER20> It would have helped if the author would have given their definition of a DSL at the start.

Embedded in a later paragraph a DSL is defined as having a syntax where "code that must look similar to proper English of the domain."

I tripped over that because, as a schemer, it's easy to discover there's really no fundamental difference between a "DSL" and "a program", in any programming language.

<comment><USER21> Completely agree; this is a difference of degree, not kind. Quoting myself[0]:

> As soon as you have something as apparently simple as named procedures, > you're really writing a DSL, albeit very coarsely, for your business > problem.

[0]:[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18770192](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18770192)

</comment></comment><comment><USER22> For most of the article the author seems to be discussing non-professional programmers rather than non-programmers. Or perhaps using the two interchangeably?

There is certainly a need for non-professional programmers to be able to program (e.g. in the sciences). For non-programmers, programming a task via GUIs have been effective, although admittedly in the worst case they can devolve into a mess of check boxes, drop downs and spinners.

EDIT: Of course in a business you'd hire professionals for a job (or outsource it). That's just good sense for anything your business relies on.

<comment><USER13> I'm not sure about what the article is specifically referring to, but _end- user programming_ refers to a spectrum of people that need to accomplish a programming-like task without being a professional developer.

The paper "The state of the art in end-user software engineering" discusses this spectrum from an email user to a middle school child to a scientist: [https://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1922658](https://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1922658)

</comment></comment><comment><USER23> Also: Not discount the power of some basic training to unlock the power of DSLs.

I work a lot around RDBMS. Most people have almost null training about SQL, relational model or how databases work. They learn it in the most ad-hoc, step-by-trick-step.

Is mostly: "Hey how do that? Look! this cool trick do the work!". You see this everywhere. Sometimes people ask you this question a lot (about excel, sql, how use email, what? Word can do some mat too?) and so on.

Eventually, I sit a few minutes with them and explain the fundamentals. It change the game. A lot.

</comment><comment><USER24> IMHO author is missing the historical perspective of DSL approach. In the time when SQL was developed, users simply needed a much higher level of tech skills than today. One older colleague told me once how he wrote his PhD thesis using ed (unix line-editor), and it was more than 100 pages work. To us that seems crazy complicated and unfriendly, editing 100s of pages line by line using obscure single letter commands, but to them it was a huge improvement compared to typing it on a typewriter - and they all learned how to use it. Similarly, analyst in the days when SQL was invented had very different expectations and ideas about what "simple to use" means. Back then you expected that you need to type your commands as text, so developing specialized tools in form of DSLs was a perfectly logical step. Today DSLs make less sense as we can build spreadsheets, wizards, visual drag&drop UIs, AIs for speech commands and so on. Users' expectations and skills are completely different now, and it's less likely that they'll invest time into learning a new language, they want buttons to click. That's why DSLs are now more a middle step that simplifies life for programmers when dealing with specialized tasks - for those areas where visual tools are too limiting, but still you need a way to abstract the complexity - just the way the SQL does it.

<comment><USER25> I think one can argue that a "visual drag&drop UI" to build a e.g. a complex query can also be a form of DSL.

<comment><USER24> Exactly, fully agree. It's a DSL of this era.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> > The last time I had a business analyst that wanted to write SQL, he tripped > over one join and asked me to do the job.

Anecdotal counterpoint: I've met many an analyst who had some mean SQL skills.

<comment><USER27> And equally I've met many a career programmer who get confused by non-trivial SQL

</comment></comment><comment><USER28> The problem with DSLs consists of trace debugging, in my opinion.

First, one more counter example to add to the mix already presented here:

[https://www.scholars.northwestern.edu/en/publications/pop- pl...](https://www.scholars.northwestern.edu/en/publications/pop-pl-a-patient- oriented-prescription-programming-language) Florence et al. – POP-PL: A patient-oriented prescription programming language (2015)

Citations: [https://scholar.google.com/scholar?cites=4536900861193079588](https://scholar.google.com/scholar?cites=4536900861193079588)

The debugging issues which came to light as part of the development of POP-PL led to the new Racket trace debugging facilities in the form of Medic and Ripple, which I've previously commented about here, and which unfortunately barely anyone seems to know about:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19962087](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19962087)

</comment><comment><USER29> I think there are good counter-arguments in these comments, but I also think DSLs should be approached with caution: creating a non-trivial DSL that is correct in a consistent and intuitive way, which provides useful feedback on syntax errors, and is documented well enough to be used by someone else, is a lot of work.

</comment><comment><USER30> Another counterexample: LaTeX, used by zillions of career mathematicians and physicists every day.

<comment><USER31> The example given, SQL, also falls flat. There's plenty of people who are technical but not developers and use SQL for their daily lives. I know a marketing manager who is better than me at SQL.

Heck, I ask a PM at work to debug some of my complex queries and he asks me for help with sample code for a developer product.

</comment></comment><comment><USER32> Can I point to a counterexample? The printing dialog which asks for a page range at the UI on windows/Linux/Mac:

12,15,30-40

</comment><comment><USER33> DSLs for non-programmers are battle-proven. The author dismisses SQL with an anecdote but the simple fact of the matter is that SQL is known and used proficiently by a massive number of non-programmers to get real work done. I guarantee you there are numerous non-programmers that know SQL better than the author, but he met a few guys who aren't so good at it so he thinks nobody else is. Terrible article.

<comment><USER34> how many time did these "non-programmers" spend on learning SQL ? wouldn't have they learned basic programming skills on languages such as python or ruby during the same time ? The problem with DSL is the S, they are Specific, and trap the "non-programmers" in a non-programming culture. If they want to do something a little different than the DSL is targeted for, they are unable to.

Excel is good example, it is REAL good tool for what it is meant for, but I seen many people doing crazy thing with excel that can be done with very basic python in a dozen of basic statements. Why ? because they people never learned to do other thing than excel sheets, "When you only have a hammer everything looks like a nail".

</comment></comment><comment><USER35> Counter example: spreadsheets.

<comment><USER36> I think DSLs are about defining a 100% textual format. And spreadsheets are GUI apps. There's a DSL for defining a cell formula but in total it's a small part of the experience of using a spreadsheet app.

<comment><USER33> > _" I think DSLs are about defining a 100% textual format."_

That's an unjustified qualification. I could throw together a spreadsheet format that is all text. The spreadsheet GUI then becomes a advanced text editor that, when editing that particular format, exposes advanced content- aware controls not at all unlike advanced text editors like emacs can for s-expressions.

We can bridge the gap in other ways too, for instance the '2d' racket language that lets you do control flow using a two-dimensional ascii art grid: [https://docs.racket-lang.org/2d/index.html](https://docs.racket- lang.org/2d/index.html) It's not hard to see how this concept could be iterated on to become something quite like a spreadsheet, and with editor support the editor/language combination would begin to look a lot like a spreadsheet too.

<comment><USER37> > _I could throw together a spreadsheet format that is all text._ […] _The > spreadsheet GUI then becomes a advanced text editor that, when editing that > particular format, exposes advanced content-aware controls not at all unlike > advanced text editors like emacs can for s-expressions._

Emacs already has that, included in org-mode: [https://orgmode.org/org.html#Tables](https://orgmode.org/org.html#Tables)

(Emacs also has an even more spreadsheet-like mode; ses-mode, but that saves its data in less-than-purely-textual format. Or, at least, less textual than org-mode.)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER34> Many DSL can be replaced by python modules: it is far easier to develop and document a well written python module than a good DSL Defining a syntax, documenting it, doing parsing, syntax checking, generating good error reporting on a DSL is far harder than just designing a python API.

Of course it is a programming language, but Python can absolutely be used by non-programmers. Not as cleanly as a good programmer will do of course, but I've seen many non-programmers learning it pretty quickly for basic usage (in this case the basic usage is just to use your python module which act as a "DSL")

It also has the advantages of having tons of resources online, IDE, code coloration, etc... the random "user" of your module will in general just have to search "how to do XYZ in python" and get plenty of answer.

<comment><USER38> This is actually a great idea. You get all the readability and ease of access of a DSL with a strong language backend.

In fact, some gui-heavy software have a python interface to write some automations or plug-ins to extend functionality beyond the GUI, mainly targeted at advanced users.

</comment></comment><comment><USER39> There's a middle ground, where most of the users you hoped would write the DSL never become comfortable enough to do so, but do become competent to read the DSL and review proposed changes.

</comment><comment><USER40> I'm surprised no one is talking about React JSX. I'd be very interested to hear the authors opinion on it.

Unlike the author's examples, JSX isn't intended to be used by business people, but I think JSX presents some of the same problems but instead with regard to web designers. JSX is a DSL that was intended to help simplify and streamline the process of building a web app, but the leakiness of JSX as an abstraction prevents anyone less than a full front-end engineer from working effectively with React.

<comment><AUTHOR> My point was about the tools that let people do the job they'd ask to do programmers otherwise, but it is also a nice touch. Although, I think it is not only about JSX, virtually any modern framework markup part is not easily readable by non-developer. With complexity of the clients and trends we have now it is not fixable and won't be for a long time.

</comment></comment><comment><USER41> How do we make automating the work of a computer more accessible?

1\. Visual programming usually turns into a hot mess. It's actually as hard to learn properly as a simple programming language and once learned - <USER2> harder to build things in. How many devs choose a visual environment when there is a genuine option?

2\. "Simple" languages - BASIC, Python, Applescript, Logo. They often become complex over time unless ruthlessly maintained.

3\. DSL's - probably is they tend to be, erm, domain specific and therefore you have to learn from scratch multiple times if you want to do things outside of your initial domain.

I think a hybrid of all of the above might be interesting:

1\. A visual builder as "training wheels" but always ensure a perfect transform from visual to code and back again.

2\. A small language with a simple syntax (something Logo or Python-like but even more carefully curated)

3\. DSL-like behaviour without being a DSL. Extensibility with elegant syntactic support. Ruby aspired to this but it's Perl-isms stopped it being a good beginner's language.

<comment><USER16> Have you used Simulink? It's quite nice for doing realtime control programming.

</comment></comment><comment><USER42> Is a thing where DSLs are expected to be for non-programmers? I mean language is right there in the name. They are programming languages and you have to have programming skills to use them.

Unless by non-programmer you mean non-developer. People for which programming is secondary or tangential activity. Like scientists.

</comment><comment><USER43> Who changes the titles of HN posts?

I'm just curious... the blog post has the title "DSLs for non-programmers are a hoax" and this HN post originally had the same title. At some point it got changed; I've seen this happen before. Is this HN editorial intervention, or did the OP make the change?

Just curious...

<comment><USER10> Mods sometimes change the title if it's incorrect, unclear, or deemed to be too click-baity.

</comment></comment><comment><USER44>
        P.S. I hate Gherkin, Cucumber and other DSLs that
        let you write the tests that "read like English"

I'm with you there, friend!

But then the author mentions Rspec as a good DSL, so I don't know what their ideal of a good DSL is because Rspec's about as English-like as it gets.

<comment><USER45> Any time I've encountered Cucumber-esque testing DSLs, the amount of work that was required to plumb things up to the actual test code made me want to throw up my hands and just write xUnit tests or whatever and cut that extra work out. It's very possible that I haven't worked with anybody that really understood how this is supposed to work, and with the ten thousand other things I am responsible for, I haven't had the time or inclination to take a real deep dive into it.

<comment><USER44> I agree with you completely.

I mean, they want you to write "expect(some_thing).to be_true" and even more ornate stuff.

I mean, why not "expect(some_thing)" or "expect(some_thing==true)"?

Rspec, Cucumber, etc. _do_ have matchers that are helpful and more concise than idiomatic Plain Old Ruby but some of them are so basic and yet so ornate that they really seem like some kind of a joke.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER46> Anyone who uses a DSL is a programmer. Another way to say that "DSLs for non- programmers are a hoax" is: Good DSLs make programming easy enough that people who aren't otherwise programmers can successfully program.

</comment><comment><USER47> Jetbrains, makers of IntelliJ IDEA and PyCharm, have a DSL-creator tool called MPS [0]. It looks interesting, lets you include language and "non-textual" elements including "math notations, diagrams, and forms." I'd like to apply it in some context.

[0] [https://www.jetbrains.com/mps/](https://www.jetbrains.com/mps/)

</comment><comment><USER48> When I read Game Engine Architecture[0] I got the impression that DSLs are pretty effective in that industry. Anyone have war stories of game DSLs gone horribly wrong?

[0] [https://www.gameenginebook.com/](https://www.gameenginebook.com/)

</comment><comment><USER49> I don't necessarily agree. I have worked with financial analysts using Excel, SQL etc. quite proficiently. In fact, I am told that familiarity with DSLs used for data analysis/manipulation tools is considered a part of the job description by many companies nowadays.

</comment><comment><USER50> The problem with programming for non-programmers is so many programmers have told non-programmers that they can't program. Programming is far easier in the small than we'd care to acknowledge. Don't cripple what you let your users do, enable them.

</comment><comment><USER51> DSLs made of elements of a real programming language always seemed weird to me. When I need a language for a specific domain I just make one from scratch using either S-expressions or manual string parsing (using just string split and replace functions).

</comment><comment><USER52> I agree with most. But I find SQL to be a very bad example for a failed DSL. On the contrary, It is a highly successful DSL. In most large companies business analysts (with no programming education) do use SQL extensively.

</comment><comment><USER53> "SQL is a DSL." Well, it's certainly not a general purpose language but why do I feel huffy about this statement?

</comment><comment><USER54> DSL = Domain Specific Languages

</comment><comment><USER55> TL;DR - DSL's are hard

> The DSL fashion I oppose [...] is the fashion of self-baked business- > specific tools that are intended to be used by users that are not > programmers or even tech people. Those require much more effort than a > regular system and are seldom to be done well. So it is better to think > twice before creating your own DSL [...]

</comment><comment><USER56> "In the end when the serious stuff comes in it was always a better choice to hire someone who really understood what he was doing." \- I know this is a side point, but it makes it very hard to engage with articles when their use of gender pronouns deliberately excludes you from being 'someone who understands what they are doing'. I understand that this is often accidental, but in 2019 I'd like to think people would be more careful about excluding a marginalised group in software.</comment>


A Fast, Secure Migration to Google Cloud Platform Using Cloudflare - <AUTHOR> https://blog.cloudflare.com/a-fast-secure-migration-to-google-cloud-platform-using-cloudflare/ <comment><USER2> Basically, cloudflar is going to be doing everything sooner.</comment>


How Did Work-Life Balance in the U.S. Get So Awful? - <AUTHOR> http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/06/how-did-work-life-balance-in-the-us-get-so-awful/276336/ <comment><USER2> This article provides a great example of why you can't ignore demographic shifts when analyzing statistical data across time periods.

The best example of this is household income. If you look at the data, it looks like household income has been flat since the 1980s. However, during that time, there has been a large shift of two-parent (where both parents worked) to single-parent households. In fact, if you look at the individual incomes, they have grown substantially over the same time period. It's only when you obscure the data by talking about "households" do you see the lack of income growth.

<comment><USER3> In a sense though, isn't household income what matters in the end? While individual income has grown, if the purchasing power of a household has remained stagnant, have things really changed?

Of course, that probably isn't a popular way to look at it, because the immediate inference is that we could realize significant improvements by shifting society back towards two-parent households, and that grates against current social trends.

<comment><USER2> Yes, household income is important, but remember what the household data infers.

You say household income is stagnant and people think "wages haven't increased", when in fact wages have increased, it's just that there are fewer wage earners per household.

That's an important distinction that points to very different solutions.

<comment><USER3> I agree it is important to know both data points.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> In my opinion: Our work-like balance got awful when we became greedy.

I'm not nearly 50% as smart as the HN demi-gods around here, but I've learned to tame my desires.

I live in a humble house and have shitty possessions - but I only have to work 20 hours a week to keep the lights on.

In my opinion, you have to learn to make hard choices with an eye for the long term. Here's an example: For us, we decided that sending our three children to a good Lutheran school was important Our observation was that it was wiser to educate our children in knowledge, but also values and heart. We anticipate that at 18 years of age, they'll be functioning adults and we won't have to prop them up into their 20's.

<comment><USER5> It's also about perspective.

If you have to wake up every morning at 5:15 am to catch a 1.5 hr bus ride, arrive at work at 8 am, work for 9 hrs until 6 pm (1 hr lunch in between). Then catch another 1.5 hr ride back home. Arrive after 8pm, eat something, go sleep.

Now rinse and repeat, every week day for 9 years.

Does this even qualify as a balanced work-life?

Compare that to wake up at 8 am, have coffee, read hackernews, shower, arrive at work at 9 am, work through 5 pm, arrive back home at 5:30, 5 hrs for dinner, leisure, sports, go gym, play with kids, etc, go sleep.

Edit: the top example is my brother's typical workday in Chile, bottom one is mine here in the US.

<comment><USER6> I was sure that the first was typical for a US worker.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> I came to a screeching halt when I read "The Great Workweek Shift" chart. I can't think of a more misleading way to present that kind of data.

Then "The Growth of Leisure Time for Men" chart is silent on whether the men with fewer than 12 years of education would prefer to swap this extra "leisure" time for paid work. In the last paragraph he refers to this as "downtime" instead.

Very little source data cited. Clever unit shifting on most of the graphs. Generally strange mixed messaging.

<comment><USER8> Yeah I think this is the first time I have seen "chronic unemployment" called "leisure time" but I guess technically it's correct.

<comment><USER9> Technically unemployment is time spent looking for work. People not looking for work are excluded.

Naturally, such a distinction is difficult to do accurately.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Bertrand Russell does a good job picking apart why we use innovation to make ourselves work harder rather than life easier. <http://www.zpub.com/notes/idle.html>

<comment><USER11> That is seriously good reading

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> Did anyone notice this little chart?

[http://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/mt/assets/business/Screen%...](http://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/mt/assets/business/Screen%20Shot%202013-05-31%20at%204.40.28%20PM.png)

Take a look at the one group that has lost leisure time.

<comment><USER12> So, for anyone with a Bachelor's or higher, leisure time has plummeted. For everyone else, the increase in "leisure time" is likely because of underemployment, so they would actually prefer to be working more to earn more money.

<comment><USER3> That seems somewhat unlikely? There are 168 hours in a week, or 128 hours of time outside the 40 hour workweek. Even those without a high school diploma have 113 hours of leisure per this graph- so I don't think we can immediately conclude they just don't have work.

Also, this chart is from 1965 to 2005, so more recent trends will only be in a tiny corner of this graph.

<comment><USER13> So if a normal work week is counted at 40 hours, and there are 99 hours of leisure according to that chart for a modern man with a degree, then it works out that the average person on that plot line is now working 168 - 99 = 69 hours on average or 69 / 40 = 172.5% of a normal week. Sounds unbalanced to me.

Juliet Schor has an excellent book on this subject The Overworked American: The Unexpected Decline Of Leisure [http://www.amazon.com/Overworked-American- Unexpected-Decline...](http://www.amazon.com/Overworked-American-Unexpected- Decline-Leisure/dp/046505434X)

<comment><USER3> Right, the average working man works more than 40 hours a week because per the article, this chart counts things like housework as work.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> I think something is seriously wrong with this work-life balance index (<http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/topics/work-life-balance>) when the US ranks only slightly higher than Chile.

There is no way a country such as Chile, where the legal work-week is 45 hrs and the average commute takes at least 1hr can be ranked so high.

</comment><comment><USER14> Great article, it's nice to see someone take a simple statistic that may tell a misleading story and dig deeply into its causes. Macroeconomics is a complex topic that generally deserves rigorous analysis.

The article mostly looks at gender and class, I wonder how immigration has affected the shifts.

<comment><USER15> This is mostly microeconomics stuff, but for a national economy. Macro is when the scale of a market causes it to obey different rules, sort of how quantum mechanics is fundamentally different from classical but quantum particles still obey classical laws in some situations.

Micro is a lot easier to work with because you can study it empirically, since experiments and data can be assumed to scale up; it's subject to the "rigorous analysis" you talk about.

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> Another question we have to ask is: "how much leisure time do we want?"

It's fair to judge a reduction in work hours as a good thing when most work is hard manual labor. I doubt that's true for the majority of jobs any more. I think everyone should have enough leisure time to be healthy and spend time with their family or friends. However, I don't think we should be comparing ourselves to Europe where decades of structural unemployment have led to low- quality leisure time for large swaths of the population?

<comment><USER17> low quality leisure time? how is this defined?

<comment><USER16> Time off from work without anything to do and no money. I know, not something that would happen to me but for a lot of people time off is spent in front of the TV waiting for work to start up again.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> If someone asked me that, my answer would be, "when you let it."

</comment><comment><USER19> Starting with agriculture, when we gave up the hunter-gatherer lifestyle, according to some people.

</comment><comment><USER20> When did work-life balance get so awful? Probably right around the time agriculture was invented.

</comment><comment><USER21> I think the title has a typo. Should be "How Did Work-Life Balance in the US Get So Awesome?"

</comment><comment><USER22> The misogyny in the article's comments section is shocking and depressing.

</comment><comment><USER23> three words: the income tax.</comment>


PED/nootropics comprehensive guide - <AUTHOR>

I've been looking for a comprehensive but not snooze inducing guide to nootropics.Any suggestions? May need beta readers if I can't find a decent one and decide to write one myself if anyone's interested. <comment><USER2> What I would want to know about any purported nootropic is whether or not there is independent research about its safety, first of all, and about its effectiveness as measured objectively and not just by subjective reports from users. That's a low bar, but I have not heard of most nootropics even clearing that bar. The question I always ask about "smart drugs" is, "What smart things have people done who use these drugs?"

</comment><comment><USER3> examine.com</comment>


Landlord-friendly, self-install solar and battery kit - <AUTHOR> https://sunboxlabs.com/solar-kit/ <comment><USER2> Landlord-friendly, but perhaps not city-friendly. In a lot of big cities (i.e., where us apartment dwellers tend to live), it's illegal to hang something like that out your window because of the risk of injury to people down on the sidewalk.

That picture of it basically just propped up on the window ledge makes me particularly nervous. That's leaving you one gust of wind away from being out a few hundred bucks' worth of solar panel and few thousand bucks' worth of personal liability.

I like the idea of creating green energy options that are more portable, but this one seems just a bit too portable. Perhaps there's a need some sort of mounting system like what they do for window unit air conditioners, where it's a bit more securely secured?

(edit: I'm also having second thoughts on whether this is actually an good idea from an environmental perspective. If you _do_ heat or air condition, I'm guessing you'll lose vastly more energy due to leaving your window slightly gapped in order to run a wire through it than you gain in from the solar panel.)

<comment><USER3> You must have missed that the kit contains "8 x zip ties" to solve this. (/s)

The pictures appear to show them zip tying a panel to a coax run that was just laying across the roof? sigh.

Engineering is cool. Hipster-marketing stuff from Aliexpress while punting on the hard problems is not.

<comment><USER2> Yeah, I saw that. I think I mentally translated "We zip-tie them so that strong winds don't blow them away" to "We zip tie them so that the solar panel can help you rip down all that ugly coax cable that the Comcast technician barely attached to the side of the building the next time there's strong wind."

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> As other commentators have pointed out, the images used are a huge problem and red flag for me. Why would I pay for this when you're using the kind of photoshopped images of a product I would see on a cheap Chinese reselling site? Additionally you show flexible solar panels as part of the kit breakdown but every other image of solar panels is of a rigid, non-flexible kind. So which is it?

Essentially to me you are selling your personal support and the lack of hassle for the end-user to source their own parts.

I have a hard time trusting your parts when it doesn't even seem like you have them yourself based on the images.

(I don't mean this to attack your character. I fully believe that you care based on your other comments. That is how it reads on the site though)

<comment><USER5> You can purchase the same setup from Jackery that has customer support and looks cool too: [https://www.jackery.com/](https://www.jackery.com/) They have the portable batteries and color coordinated portable solar panels.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> Just few notes:

\- the first picture might not really be landlord-friendly; there are codes on what you can install outside your window and how (besides looks, you wouldn't want this to fall on someone)

\- shocking price - the wording alone would put me off of even being interested in the product; but putting that aside, $500 doesn't seem shocking to me at all

\- same tech battery as tesla; is this the "lithium-ion" part? come on

\- 5x more power - what is this supposed to mean?

<comment><AUTHOR> All very good points.

\- True. Most people I know ended up ziptie-ing the panel(s) on their rooftop or in the back yard (more sunshine hours).

\- Yes. I meant for a 0.2kW, 5kWh, 500W system this is shockingly low. I'm tired of people getting ripped off on Amazon for drop-shipped stuff. I think $499 incl. shipping is shocking, but agree that the wording needs to be better. This is an early landing page :)

\- 18650 cells were used in early Tesla cars (to the best of my knowledge, they're still used in S and X?). Most people who are new to solar/storage are looking at AGMs and thinking "this is way more expensive" (but of course you get more cycles, better full discharge, etc with Lithium). Agreed that the wording needs to be better.

\- 5x more power than the other kits on the website, which can output around 100W AC. This system drives 500W AC. Again, thanks for the pointer. This will be improved.

<comment><USER7> How about "landlord-friendly design," and "consumer-friendly prices," "renter- friendly" or somesuch.

Think about what you are trying to communicate. You can use "show-don't-tell" to imply superlatives. IE, let the reader colour in their own adjectives.

The messages are simple: You can intall it yourself in a rental. It costs $500.

You already show the price, and the specs. If you want/need more context, provide more context. Maybe price comparisons. Maybe you can contextualise the specs: battery can power these many devices, for this amount of time. The battery will charge in this amount of time, on an average October day.

Try to keep the number of messages small and think of your words in a utilitarian way. They have specific jobs. Are they trying to inform, convince, associate with another product? Do the simplest thing that gets the job done.

<comment><AUTHOR> Great points. Updated the site based on your feedback!

<comment><USER7> Good Luck.

Keep chopping! Copywriting isn't that hard, but you should treat it as crafting or artsing. Chunk & edit at different size-levels. Sentences. Words. Paragraphs. Do all of them do a job? Are they doing it well? Being concise is _more_ important in copywriting than in code.

 _" Our new off-grid renewable energy micro-grid system is here! We tried to build the best system we possibly could at the lowest possible price."_

Too many adjectives! What's the predicate?

      Our
      new | off-grid | renewable | energy | micro-grid | system
      is here

:)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Costs $500 + planetary manufacturing costs of the battery, and panel, plus their pollution cost post-use.

Based on constant use, it generates $50 of electricity per year + saves plantary production costs of electricty by traditional means.

So providing the battery and panel don't fail or decline in function, it financially pays for itself after 10 years of constant use, realistically probably more like 8 or 9 years when you factor in rising domestic electricity costs.

Looks like a terrible investment to me. Especially when you factor in the planetary costs of the physical production.

<comment><USER9> The average payback on whole home solar is 7.5 years, so 10 isn't too far off normal.

My problem is that semi-permanent installation at this size is of questionable utility; I don't want to have to juggle my electric usage between this and the regular grid in order to maximize my solar, that sounds incredibly inconvenient. Of course there are solutions to this, but they're not renter friendly.

<comment><USER10> The comparison should be against consumer cost of borrowing I think. And with a 10% yield it does look like can take a loan and come out ahead.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> This doesn't work in germany if you are renting.

There is something called right on the facade and means that you as a renter or owner of a flat, you are not allowed to change the facade of the building which does include solar panel outside of your window.

You could put it on your balcony in a way that it is not highly visible which contradicts the usage.

<comment><USER12> Similarly, in the US, most condo associations are restrictive, and would forbid hanging anything outside a window or balcony, on aesthetic and safety grounds. Installing things on the roof would likely be off limits too, unless you own exclusive rights to it and get approval to make modifications. Fining the unit owners to fix a tenant's dangling solar panel isn't landlord- friendly!

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> You say "I built", but the inverter/charger/battery is an off the shelf unit - I have one from the same OEM here, 400Wh model, same outputs (but 230v ac), and I got a folding 150W panel for go with it. Works great as a stopgap for lighting, network stack, but 500Wh doesn't go far with, say, a laptop, particularly after all the conversions.

Anyway. I guess your primary value add is in bundling it all together and telling people where to stick stuff via zoom, but "I built" is a bit misleading. I designed and installed a 5kva 4800 solar watt 42kWh system here, but I wouldn't say I built it - I just stuck the bits I ordered together.

<comment><USER14> I think that the original poster use of "I built" to mean sticking bits they bought together in a way that works is pretty much layman usage of the phrase.

I suppose you might want a more stringent usage on HN, but I personally find it reasonable.

<comment><USER15> Car manufacturers buy lots of parts from tire companies, seat companies, engine companies and more. Yet I think it's fair to say they build the car.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> Just some comments:

1) Have a native English-speaker do some proof-reading and tone down the level of excitement to a credible level. The overall idea makes sense.

2) I've been in apartment buildings in SE Asia without window awnings where direct sunlight made the unit literally an oven.

In that region, AC is $1000+/month when adjusted for COLA, so they try not to use AC. There is a huge market for a $100 window-mounted solar draw fan that doesn't necessarily need a battery or even an electricity output - just rotate the draw fan during sunlight.

4) FYI: In the Bay Area, you don't have much of a choice in grid provider. PG&E covers 100% of the region, and there's one local utility on the Peninsula and one in Alameda, last I heard. They all prioritize hospitals and emergency services, so in a blackout, may not provide expected redundancy.

</comment><comment><USER17> It's cool idea (very similar to the Goal Zero system). But I have to say the sketchy Alibaba-level photoshopped product shots of the main battery unit don't add a lot of confidence.

<comment><AUTHOR> Yeah totally agree. The other guides on the site I've built, tested and lived with myself for the past 2-something years (since the original build below). But it's always been affiliates – this is my first time shipping and backing the hardware myself. I haven't got updated images of the samples yet – so apologies for the low image quality. If there are people out there who want systems like this, we'll have updated, glammy photos soon enough :).

On a different note, I'm hoping to be able to partner with these guys to solve the "window-gap" problem: [https://www.swrtec.com](https://www.swrtec.com)

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYezJJv_pEA&feature=emb_logo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYezJJv_pEA&feature=emb_logo)

<comment><USER17> I think you should just be more transparent in the stage of delivery you are in on your site. This is a niche product for enthusiasts and I think an enthusiast customer would be fine supporting you if you were more clear about how your production is going on the kinds of problems you might hit delivering instead of trying to appear like it's all ready to go.

<comment><AUTHOR> Point taken.

The rest of the site is more along those lines I'd argue – and it's gotten around 15 hits a day from the "niche" community for the past few years.

Though the stage of the project needs to be better fleshed out, a little marketing (even if it's probably too early on this pre-sale) goes such a long way I'd argue. Until this HN post got upvotes for the somewhat clickbait-y title I was not sure anyone in the world would care or even find this article or care about the concept :)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> When I read these comments I'm left wishing we could be a more supportive community when peers try something new. I hope we can find a way to support Niko.

It saddens me that many engineers don't start projects for fear of embarrassment from forums like these.

My first startup failed for all sorts of legitimate reasons. My second startup sold to Facebook for millions. And all of them sounded like a bad idea at the start.

Let's not be a modern slashdot and miss the forest for the trees. What if Niko or someone here is successful? How will history judge the incessant critiques?

No wireless. Less space than a nomad. Lame.

<comment><USER19> It's a dangerous kit. There are no mounts included (zip ties don't count) and the demo image on the website shows a panel sitting on a window ledge. Seems like a good way for a panel to fall and injure/kill somebody. Real solar panels installed on a home are bolted to structural members of the home so they can resist severe winds that happen yearly (60 mph+)

"Move fast and break things" is dumb when it comes to electricity or physical products that get mounted on the exterior of a building, and there's nothing wrong with calling someone out for failing to take safety into account. It's a huge oversight.

</comment></comment><comment><USER20> The core idea is great, but the details are not. I am looking at something like that for a while and these are the comments:

\- the capacity is too low. For something to put on the roof of the car when going somewhere it as at the limit, but the usability is low: to power a few mobile phones a battery bank is much cheaper, to generate electricity for a few days of camping it is too low. For home it is way too low, I would add a few batteries and more panels, maybe 500W for panels and >2k for batteries. If I have a power failure I need something to keep my desktop and fridge running over night and run on solar during the day, that is the minimum where I consider buying, otherwise a UPS will give me more value.

\- the price is too high for a gadget and with such a low capacity it is a gadget, not a serious electricity source. Probably a higher price with a lot more capacity is a better deal.

<comment><USER21> Yeah, I don't understand why they are only doing 500W for the batteries unless ultra portable size was the goal. I've made lots of batteries using Samsung 18650 cells (via a spot welder and nickel strips) and 500W is fairly simple to do. One of my drones draws over 3,000W as an example.

Further, usually you care more about Wh and not W alone anyway. For example, the Samsung 25R 18650 (which I use frequently) is about 80W for a single cell fully charged, but is only up to about 10Wh. So for the 500Wh claim, that's around $100 in batteries if new and Samsung, cheaper if alternative brands.

So assuming you're a DIYer (which obviously this listing isn't targeted directly at):

Batteries - around $100

500W inverter/charger - around $80

2x100W solar panels similar to ones pictured - Around $150

20ft of cable - around $20

</comment></comment><comment><USER22> This reeks of spam, and that picture of the module on the apartment floor is not even real, its clearly photoshopped and a digital render of the product.

</comment><comment><USER23> Self install plug & play solar is a big opportunity imo. Because install costs are such a big share of system costs.

The tipping point will probably be a company that ships a modular system that can be installed with only a mobile phone + drill & can scale from an apartment to a large building.

Fraunhofer ISE has worked on this vision quite a bit.

</comment><comment><USER24> Years ago when I lived in an apartment I was tempted to build a similar setup. I was going to plug my refrigerator into the inverter, and use a rely to switch back to grid power once the battery was depleted.

Anyway, some kind of rely to switch back to grid power when the battery is depleted would make this really cool.

</comment><comment><USER25> Just out of curiosity is grid based green energy available in your area?

Here in Germany we can choose providers, and most have fully renewable options.

For a little backup energy autonomy a home solar system is definitely fun but you will probably never offset the sunk carbon from the systems manufacture.

I find for me solar definitely drives an awareness that energy isn't limitless but it's usually substantially greener to just do that as a mental exercise and buy the power from the grid.

That said, having your own setup definitely stokes those nice "I'm autonomous" feelings. :)

<comment><USER26> "Green" energy is based on Green certificate that are sold on an exchange, and can be used at anytime during a year, in any connected countries, they are far from real fully renewable or even no marginal carbon.

[https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/05/190523111408.h...](https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/05/190523111408.htm)

[https://www.aib-net.org/](https://www.aib-net.org/)

[https://medium.com/electricitymap/why-green-electricity- cont...](https://medium.com/electricitymap/why-green-electricity-contracts- fail-to-deliver-green-electricity-e0d66ca31d88)

<comment><USER27> From the last link you cited:

> Whoever buys the certificate can then claim that a certain amount of > renewable electricity has been produced. Here's where the problem is: the > trade of certificates is not limited in space nor in time. It means that you > can buy a certificate from a region disconnected from your electricity grid > (space), or from the past (!) without making sure the electricity was stored > (time).

I've commented before on HN[1] about how this critique of energy certificates doesn't make any sense, the fact that you can time-shift consumption is a feature, not a bug.

It helps if you think about it as a subsidy, which it is. You charge your battery on electrons produced at a coal plant and pay for e.g. 1 kWh of solar energy to be produced. That energy is then used to say charge a phone you just bought before it's delivered to you.

It's not as superficially emotionally satisfying as imagining that all your electrons are "pure", but they're fungible. Just as you could say emit 1 ton of CO^2 and sequester 2 tons of CO^2 somewhere else at some other time.

Did you just undo the pollution you emitted? I think so, but I think using your criteria you'd need to put that "cleanup" effort in another set of scare quotes.

1\. [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21681772](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21681772)

<comment><USER10> If I put a solar panel in a far away desert, and connect it to a resistor, can I sell certificates?

<comment><USER27> Yes, why wouldn't you?

To the extent that you can remain solvent while trying to single handedly warm up the planet, it's in the interest of the rest of us to give you an incentive to shift that energy consumption to a sustainable provider.

This is a perfect example of exactly the sort of case energy credits excel at, since you can shift the consumption to a different time and location.

<comment><USER10> > you can remain solvent while trying to single handedly warm up the planet,

I'm fairly sure we have some kind of misunderstanding, and I don't see exactly what you are getting at. Anyway the point of this whole scheme wouldn't be to warm the planet. It would be to put solar panels in a location with a lot of sun and cheap land, to produce certificates as cheaply as possible.

Now having nothing useful to do with the resulting energy, since it's so far away from the grid, just flush it down the drain so to speak, by driving a resistor.

The esoteric reader may notice a certain similarity to the practice of a sending a scapegoat to the desert for the purpose of purifying sin.

<comment><USER27> I realize what you meant, in practice there's a large amount of legislation around this sort of thing and the people writing it aren't morons and have heard of things like the cobra effect[1].

But maybe I'm wrong and there's lots of investors building power plants purely to waste energy and make a point. We just haven't heard much about them because the joke got tired within a week of operations and they decided they might as well connect it to the grid instead to recoup their investment.

1\. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobra_effect](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobra_effect)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER28> This is great. If you search Youtube there are quite a few videos of people doing their own off-grid solar installs, and some even grid tied. Obviously grid tied is a terrible idea if you don't get the proper permits and loop in the electrical company, but I've seen people doing it (and going to great lengths to conceal what they're doing, including using a relay to shut off the panel)

The economic advantage of having solar panels is completely negated by the fact that the electric company owns the grid, and therefore, tells YOU what you can and can't do to the wiring of your own home. At the end of the day they'll give you a credit on your bill and skim off the top of the power you're generating.

I have been wanting to build something like this, I want a lot more than 200W though.

A lot of off-grid solutions I have looked at use a ground rod. Does anyone happen to know when that becomes necessary? Obviously you can't have a ground rod in an airplane, for example, just chassis ground.

</comment><comment><USER29> Can the solar panels be behind a window?

Puttin solar panels on the outside of my apartment would be diffcult and dangerous.

But putting them inside, so they get sunlight through a window would be easy.

Heck, I can even see me using solar panels instead of blinds.

Would that work? Or does the sunlight lose too much energy when going through glass? If so, how much energy gets lost?

<comment><USER30> A short discussion: [https://ecotality.com/will-solar-panels-work-through- glass/](https://ecotality.com/will-solar-panels-work-through-glass/)

Anything between you and sunlight is a large decrease. Heck, hanging at the wrong angle is a big loss. Does the window face the sun directly? Far bigger issue really. And 'directly' doesn't really mean anything since the sun's direction changes constantly.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> Congratulations nikodunk.

Kits like these _are_ , IMO, pretty important steps along the way. First, they're accessible. People get their feet wet, learn. Since the technology is improving, it can be a rewarding "hobby" project. Every few years there will be upgrades available and prices will improve.

A $500 kit has to be simple. That's a great environment for innovative contributions.

Innovation & cultural change happen slower if the only Tesla, Samsung, power companies and other giants are playing. Remember that the web, and most of its innovations did not happen @ google or facebook. They were originated by many small players, and later collected into those big companies.

Good luck to you. If you can establish a beachhead with this kit, you should have backwind to help you going forward. Batteries are the limiting factor, and they're improving.

<comment><AUTHOR> Just saw this now. Thank you, netcan! This is the plan.

</comment></comment><comment><USER31> There's a nice 3.5 kW "toolbox" design for $650 here:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVnQ87Fvsk4&](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVnQ87Fvsk4&)

Great bang:buck ratio, at least if you can get a good price on that many 18650s.

<comment><USER20> I saw that video recently and it does not include some things that made me stay away: labor cost, expertise and parts availability.

\- I cannot buy all the parts where I live (Eastern Europe) and not for the price in the video

\- I am decent with a soldering iron and quite ok with a screwdriver and power tools, but welding live batteries is out of reach for most people

\- it takes quite some time to do that work, not included in the $650

\- I would like to modify that setup by adding more batteries or different batteries (like big motorcycle Li-Pol batteries), but I don't have the expertise to change the setup and I have no time to get that expertise, it is not something you learn in a few hours

So it is a good proof of concept, but not really something to mass replicate by people at home.

<comment><USER21> > welding live batteries is out of reach for most people

Battery grade spot welders are $100-250 on Amazon and it's easy to do, but I have to admit, even after welding hundreds of batteries I'm still nervous doing it because I've seen first hand what lithium ion batteries are like when they catch fire (unrelated incident where that happened).

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER32> I had a similar idea to this but simplified. I still think it's a great idea.

Basically you just sell the panel, and some kind of power conversion unit. When there is solar it inverts it and feeds it to whatever device you have plugged in. When there is no solar power it simply passes wall power to your device.

No need for the expensive battery like this kit has. What do folks think? Why can't we have products that let people dabble in solar and offset a small part of their bill?

<comment><USER33> Ultimatley you still need battery or you will be wasting potential energy collection or it won't use solar when production isin't high enough to compeltely run the device off of. But yea this is a more practical idea as long as it's still coupled with a battery

<comment><USER32> How come rooftop panels don't need a battery? I've always wondered that. Does the grid truly act as a battery?

<comment><USER34> Rooftop that does not have a battery and inverter will not power your house when the grid goes off. In order to power anything with Alternating Current, what would it sync to?

By now I'm probably an expert on RV solar installation, but a dork at residential. That said, I believe residential solar pumps energy back into the grid, but does not power the house. The grid does the powering, then you get credit on your electric bill. In contrast to our RV, where solar charges the big battery, and the big battery runs the inverter for AC-related things (and DC stuff just runs direct off battery).

<comment><USER32> Thanks. I just feel like a small battery would need to come before the inverter on resodential but not sure why.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER34> I appreciate the enthusiasm, but that web page needs a serious reset of expectations. Starting with the battery: 500Wh means if you want to run a fridge, it better be a tiny one. For those that don't have this stuff memorized, you can run 5 old-school 100W incandescent bulbs for an hour on that battery. That's about 20 minutes of microwave oven, and then you wait 3 or 4 hours before you do it again. Best I can figure, it'll barely run a 3.2 cubic foot "dorm" fridge, and with lossiness it probably won't be able to do even that. It'll run your lights, it'll charge your phone, you can run your laptop. Which is probably good enough for most folk.

But that picture with a rigid panel just lying on that thin ledge, _that_ has to go.

Source: RV owner with 410W of heavily-researched solar on the roof, and a big- ass battery.

</comment><comment><USER35> I'm exited for the fact that this technology can be sold for $500 now. Makes me wonder how cheap this could get in the future.

For now, I don't have any use for it as the power never goes out here. But good luck!

Maybe these will be as normal in the future as getting a jerrycan of gas is in some places.

</comment><comment><USER36> I wonder whether a window AC unit with attached solar panel and electronics to drive the unit directly from the panel would make sense? You typically want air-conditioning most when the sun is shining. A standard AC unit draws too much power, unless you're gonna have a huge panel, but maybe there's something interesting you could do where the compressor draws whatever power is available?

<comment><USER21> You'd need like somewhere around ten of these panels to power even a small A/C unit that could maybe cool your bathroom or a small bedroom.

</comment></comment><comment><USER37> Only for context, previous related threads:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23317666](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23317666) [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14821478](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14821478)

</comment><comment><USER38> Very cool! I've been reading a lot about solar power as a form of backup energy. We have power outages every day here and I'm looking for a way to at least power my wifi/modem and charge a laptop so I can keep working.

Hobotech in YouTube might be interested in your idea! I've been watching a lot of his videos lately.

<comment><AUTHOR> Awesome! I'll reach out to them.

</comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> Original HN discussion for previous article:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14821478](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14821478)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15425324](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15425324)

</comment><comment><USER39> Interesting, but a bit hard to make the economic case for it - it looks more suitable for camping/cabin use cases? It's not going to significantly reduce your energy consumption from the grid, since it doesn't tie into the house circuits.

</comment><comment><USER30> Portable? For camping?! Maybe for glamping, where you have generous luggage space and don't have to carry it far (or at all). But then, you could use a camper mounted device already.

<comment><USER40> I sometimes camp by bicycle, and this looks pretty transportable by bike trailer.

<comment><USER30> Sure. At the cost of many other things. Can you fit the appliances _and_ the solar rig, all in the same bike trailer? Diminishing returns at some point.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER41> Companies like Jackery already have a whole line of products that do the same thing. What sets this apart?

<comment><USER21> Cheaper (and potentially lower quality in line with cheaper price). Jackery is over double the price for a comparable setup ($600 for 2x panels alone via Jackery's site).

</comment></comment><comment><USER42> You won't be able to run an A/C off 500W, most use 2000W or more.

</comment><comment><USER33> What does "window transmission" mean ?

</comment><comment><USER43> For all you high-salaried _renters_ out there dishing out exorbitant rents to the administration.

</comment><comment><USER44> Nice job, this is great.

</comment><comment><USER45> > 500Wh battery

"Off-grid" for an hour or two?

</comment><comment><USER22> All you need to know per registrar details of this URL: Creation Date: 2017-09-29T02:59:02Z Updated Date: 2019-09-29T07:55:04Z Registry Expiry Date: 2020-09-29T02:59:02Z

</comment><comment><USER46> Nice idea, I wish you luck.

> 18650 Same lithium battery tech used by Tesla

/sarcasm on

Come on, now this is over the edge :D Why didnt you rather say I am using it in electronic cigarette. Or maybe that it is used, like everywhere, from laptop batteries to power tools even before Tesla existed. And yeah it is used by Tesla too, like every other company that uses li-ion batteries and needs this sizing factor.

/sarcasm off</comment>


On-Line Pizza Idea Is Clever but Only Half-Baked (1994) - <AUTHOR> http://articles.latimes.com/1994-08-25/business/fi-31168_1_pizza-hut <comment><USER2> The NCSA httpd CGI examples, also from around 1994, included a program to order from a local sub shop. It was a demo of how to use forms. It collected the information then sent an email to the university's email-to-fax gateway, which sent a fax to Jimmie John's.

Source at [https://www.slac.stanford.edu/grp/md/cgi- src/jj.c](https://www.slac.stanford.edu/grp/md/cgi-src/jj.c) .

[https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/2ik7gl/this_ma...](https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/2ik7gl/this_made_me_laugh_a_command_line_application/) further adds that the 'demo' "actually did send a fax through the UIUC email to fax gateway. The local Jimmy Johns had to go through the police to find out who was sending these bogus orders, which reached the university and we took it down."

Don Hopkins, in the same Reddit thread, describes PizzaTool, a PostScript program "for NeWS on OpenWindows at Sun, which shipped with Solaris in 1992. ... You could spin the pizza to "cook" it, and it would send a fax with a picture of the pizza and the list of toppings to Tony & Alba's in Mountain View!"

Source at [http://donhopkins.com/home/code/pizzatool.ps.txt](http://donhopkins.com/home/code/pizzatool.ps.txt) .</comment>


Load Google Fonts Faster in WordPress - <AUTHOR> https://coffeencoding.com/load-google-fonts-5x-faster-in-wordpress/ <comment><USER2> This starts out well outlining the problem then ends abruptly with "use this magical third party service to make your problems disappear" with no insight into how it's solving the problem.

<comment><USER3> It isn't providing another third-party service - just wrapping some JS around Google fonts d/l. If this is something you don't prefer, self-hosting font files with font-display property is the only way out.

Also, this isn't as performant as correctly self-hosting font files (because of separate DNS lookup to google font domain involved).

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Or you could just use standard fonts and save the bandwidth. sans-serif never hurt anybody.

<comment><USER5> Unfortunately in some languages default fonts are simply horrible.

<comment><USER6> That's why many define a "default font stack" \- basically a default for each device:

      font-family: -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, "Segoe UI", Roboto, Oxygen, Ubuntu, Cantarell, "Open Sans", "Helvetica Neue", sans-serif;

<comment><USER7> On your list, Ubuntu font does not cover Hangul (>50 million people) at all for example. You are blessed to write in writing systems with good default fonts.

<comment><USER6> Not all of the 50 million people use Linux, so they should be covered with the previous fonts. But i'm curious - if some character cannot be displayed, will the browser try the next (or fallback) one automatically? I've been using this list for quite some time, but maybe it's time to revise it.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> The suggested solution is to use [https://googlefonts.3perf.com/](https://googlefonts.3perf.com/)

</comment><comment><USER9> Looks like the suggested solution is to use [https://googlefonts.3perf.com/](https://googlefonts.3perf.com/) \- which seems to rewrite the link tag to a script that does some DNS prefetching and forces FOUT to get a faster load time. Seems like too much of a stopgap.

If you really want to fully control the font experience, download the font package and CSS from [https://google-webfonts- helper.herokuapp.com/](https://google-webfonts-helper.herokuapp.com/) and host them yourself, on the same CDN as your JS and CSS. That way they'll load in parallel with your site's other assets and you have full control over all cache control headers as well.

<comment><USER10> > they'll load in parallel with your site's

you still have to wait until the css declaration is fetched and parsed, so don't forget a Link: prefetch header on the response (or http push, but a prefetch in the http response header is easier to implement)

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> For my projects we end up embedding the fonts with base64. Much more manageable [https://amio.github.io/embedded-google- fonts/](https://amio.github.io/embedded-google-fonts/)

</comment><comment><USER12> Can you help me to disable the Google fonts in W3TotalCache plugin?</comment>


Google Meet noise cancellation is rolling out now – here's how it works - <AUTHOR> https://venturebeat.com/2020/06/08/google-meet-noise-cancellation-ai-cloud-denoiser-g-suite/ <comment><USER2> With solutions like that getting more popular, it will reflect in the future price of our expensive noise-cancelling headphones :)</comment>