RIP Microsoft Kin - <AUTHOR> http://mashable.com/2010/06/30/rip-microsoft-kin/

<comment><USER2> Wow, this thread seems so bizarre to me. Basically a collective sentiment of "I can't believe how stupid they are for having tried this thing that didn't work out."

"Failing" has become such a well-liked buzz word in the last couple years, unless you're a company people don't like, in which case it is awful.

<comment><USER3> Well, there is failing, and then there is _failing_. They spent hundreds of millions of dollars to buy Danger and create the Kin, and they are cancelling it only a few weeks after release. This is beyond embarassing for a company with the size and history of Microsoft. The people who managed this project had absolutely no clue what they were doing. Many, many heads should roll over this.

<comment><USER4> To be fair to MS, a lot of the device's failure is on the carrier side - they're charging grown-up smartphone plan pricing for what amounts of a kid device. This was doomed from this fact alone - regardless of how great or shitty the phone itself turned out.

The real failure here is having gone and built this whole shebang without securing the pricing side first.

<comment><USER5> I disagree completely.

With the always-connected social features they want on the phone, there is really no alternative plan pricing.

Their failure was in capturing market, or more precisely, the lack thereof. There was simply no market for a half-smartphone like the kin, that wasn't really good at being a simple "dumbphone", and not even as "smart" as a last generation iphone which costs about the same.

With the iPhone 3GS going for $99, and a handy selection of decent featurephones available for free depending on carrier sales, anyone with half a brain would know there is no market for something like the kin. At least not now of all times.

<comment><USER6> > With the always-connected social features they want on the phone, there is > really no alternative plan pricing.

Always-connected doesn't necessarily mean huge amounts of bandwidth. They could have built this thing as a social media device that was doing simple messaging and heavily restricted / optimized features for photo & video. I think there would be a space in the market for such a thing for teens, but MS clearly badly missed it. And if they have pissed off their carrier partners in the process then it is even worse because they desperately need their support if WP7 is going to be a success.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> I bet there's more to this than just a product failure. Why admit defeat so quickly and publicly? Even if the product itself was doomed to be a failure the timing is really suspicious. Why not just ignore the Kin for the next few months and quietly kill it only when WM7 is on the market? It's almost like they were looking for an excuse to kill the project and a few weeks of bad sales was a good enough reason.

<comment><USER8> Gossip suggests that the people in charge of the WP7 team were never happy with the Kin project existing at all. They always wanted it killed and absorbed into WP7 - the Kin's poor reception just convinced top management to finally grant them their wish.

<comment><USER9> I was nowhere near close to these decisions, but I was working on phone related projects when I was at Microsoft (I quit very recently). What you say is basically my understanding of the situation.

A few other rumors/half-truths:

1) Kin Studio, the client software was the one thing reviewers (what customers?) liked about Kin. It was largely developed by the Zune client team.

2) The Kin team was formed from remaining members of the SideKick team acquired with Danger.

3) Dislike of Microsoft tech and Windows Phone politics caused many SideKick engineers to leave post acquisition because they were forced to build Kin on the Windows Phone OS, which was very much like building the plane while flying it. Those who left tended to be the talented ones who could get other jobs.

4) Many designers didn't share the Windows-hate, so the resulting team was very designer heavy.

5) The talented folks left on the Kin team were poached quite greedily by the Windows Phone 7 initiative.

6) Some bigwig was in charge of Kin and Microsoft lets CVPs piss away tons of money to keep them from going to competitors. I've never seen this strategy work out.

<comment><USER10> The bigwig CVP was Roz Ho: <http://www.google.com/search?q=Roz+Ho>

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> I am really curious.

They developed a family of phones, created marketing plans, made partnerships with carriers and it had to be the market to tell them it was a stupid idea?

Nobody in the thousands involved would have noticed that?

<comment><USER11> It's a great question. The same should be asked of many recent Microsoft initiatives. It's okay to roll the dice, but someone somewhere should have noticed.

My friends on the Kin team seem to have been caught by surprise. Those of us who watched for years from the outside: less so.

<comment><AUTHOR> > My friends on the Kin team seem to have been caught by surprise

And that's the whole point. There must have been some serious reality distortion inside the company for this project to go on for as long as it did. It was obvious, from anyone but the most clueless on the outside, it was doomed. Why smart people inside the company could not realize it will be studied for decades and will spawn many papers and books.

<comment><USER12> I talked to someone who was at Motorola when the Kin was out for hardware bid. They repeatedly asked what the strategy was, why was a separate O/S needed, and eventually turned it down.

I believe Panasonic eventually got the bid, but pretty much stole Motorola's design according to my friend.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Man, Microsoft seems desperate these days. It's getting sad, really, like watching someone grasp at straws as they sink into quicksand... albeit the quicksand is made of gold.

<comment><AUTHOR> I am sorry for all those talented folks who work there that have to endure this kind of mismanagement. Keeping their faith must require almost toxic quantities of corporate-issued Kool-Aid...

<comment><USER14> I wonder how long it'll take before the current crop of bad management gets shown the door and we get some new blood. With the talent, history and resources of MS, they should be dominating anything with an integrated circuit inside of it.

Instead, like an aging football fan trying to relive glory days as the high school quarterback, they're languishing on old glories and screwing up on most new efforts - badly.

They should start a completely new "startup division", similar to the Xbox business unit, roughly autonomous from the rest of the brokenness in the org, and just fund it to the tune of about a billion or two a year. The mandate? Start new "companies" completely autonomous from Mother MS, and they can be anything from new software, to web apps, to heck, even iPhone apps. That's got to give better ROI than the current brain-dead strategy.

How many ground zero startups could have been incubated for the money sunk on just the Kin?

<comment><USER10> However that only gets you your first or maybe second version (I'm thinking PC AT for the latter). Microsoft famously blew it when they tried to bring too much of the core engineering in house with the Xbox 360. Sort of like how the IBM PC unit utterly failed once it was totally IBMized (the Microchannel and PS/2).

Plus the "new blood" are going to be (almost by definition) managers that thrived in the current culture. It's not at all clear to me that they're likely to succeed.

And then there's the politics that drive the platform tax; the Xbox started with "150K lines" of Windows NT 4 code (appropriately, NT 4 was the version that brought the GDI inside the kernel...) and the Zune runs a version of Windows CE.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> I was actually just at a Verizon store and got a chance to see both Kin devices in person. I wasn't expecting to be blown away by any means, but I was amazed at how bad they were.

The physical construction seemed fine, but the interface was so choppy it was hardly usable, and the colors looked really washed out. Noticeably worse than the LG and Samsung dumbphones sitting next to it.

With a browser and reasonably powerful components, it could have been a nice complement to the Zune lines. My guess was that it was just a field test for MS cloud services for mobile users, and for some reason they didn't want to do it with Windows Mobile.

<comment><USER10> See <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danger_%28company%29> for a bit more info.

When the left on life support back end data loss occurred we heard a _lot_ about how terribly clueless the management of Project Pink was and how terribly unhappy the assimilated into Pink Danger employees were.

Disaster was expected, predicted, etc., the interesting question as others have noted is why did Microsoft take so long, spend so much money to realize it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> I always thought one of MS's great strengths is that they stick with things, even if early iterations are not successful. Windows and the XBox being two examples. Here they dipped their toes into into a whole new market (phones -- but not smart phones), and just a few months later they drop the whole thing. Not what I would have expected from MS.

<comment><USER8> Since there was never a third-party developer platform associated with Kin, they can kill it without pissing off developers as much as killing off Windows or the Xbox would.

<comment><USER17> You've just hit on one of the probable reasons for the failure of Kin :-)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> This is sad. Microsoft is now a late to market type company. They don't want to invent anymore. They just want to see a market thrive and then jump into it. They invest a lot of money and then can rule all. By last months quote that Apple is now worth more, it seems like Microsoft is losing its edge fast. I wouldn't be surprised in the next 20 years, Microsoft loses on a lot of other areas they try to jump into.

</comment><comment><USER19> Yet again, Microsoft attempts to target the cheapy market and ends up with lame results, while Apple goes for the high end and continues to create magic. What is that quote about the definition of stupidity is doing the same thing over and over again while expecting different results?

<comment><USER20> Microsoft does lots of things that no normal company can get away with (Vista, ME, Bob), and still survivies. Part of the problem is that Microsoft has so much cash, that they can do stupid projects like this, that fail, and they have no reason to learn.

This is why there market cap is falling, and Apples is rising. Microsoft does 100s of stupid things that fail, because they can, and nobody inside the company seems to care. Here, have $10 million for your project, if you fail, we will move you somewhere else.

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> I knew the Kin was doomed when the $70/month plans were announced. All that's surprising is how quickly they pulled the plug.

Today's smartphone market reminds me of the airline industry prior to deregulation. Since all phones are sold for roughly the same price (on contract) in the US - and you don't get a discount for avoiding a contract - there's really no price competition between handsets. The Kin would have had a shot if it was a choice between a $200 Kin and a $700 iPhone or Android, but at the moment superior quality is the only differentiator between smartphones.

</comment><comment><USER22> For what it's worth, this announcement comes at the end of Microsoft's fiscal year.

It's interesting to note that one of the main points of the announcement is that the Kin team will be merged with the Windows Phone 7 team.

This is likely a move that has been planned for a while, but only announced today, since the official re-organization will go into effect tomorrow.

</comment><comment><USER3> I wonder if Roz Ho will resign or go into early retirement...

<comment><USER23> You mean she wasn't shitcanned after the whole san upgrade failure thing?

<comment><USER10> A quick check with Google indicates she still had her (or a) job as of spring this year.

Many managers' core competency is shifting or escaping blame; in this case Microsoft was palpably panicked over the prospect that the disaster would reflect on Azure and their general cloud competency and tried to cast blame on anyone other than themselves and all the non-MS technology Danger was using. Firing her would have put the lie to that.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> Wow, that was fast. Maybe I should buy a Kin as a collectors item.

<comment><USER25> You can put it right next to your Apple Pippin.

</comment></comment><comment><USER26> What do you guys think this means for the company? Would firing Steve Ballmer do anything for their feudal management structure?

This is a company with billions in cash, smart employees and profitable projects. It's sad that they can't get together and be seen as anything but the gang that sells software to my dad.

</comment><comment><USER27> To me, this isn't really RIP... it's just, die, die, go away please, but learn from the mistake. That's my biggest fear; a certain, big $x amount was spent on this, and after folding it into the wash of profits, the important take- aways could very easily be missed.

</comment><comment><USER28> If Microsoft made a portable device with Xbox live capacity, hmm, there's a thought - I'd actually consider researching into maybe consider buying it. I mean Xbox Live arcade got some good things right, only if they applied what they learned there to Win 7 mobile.

</comment><comment><USER29> The rationale for the Kin would have been compelling up until the end of 2006. But that was an eon ago.

I wonder when shareholders will start to demand that MS stop throwing huge amounts of money away on foolish endeavors just increase the stock dividend.

</comment><comment><USER30> Funny how we preach "failing fast" in our startups, but we jump all over Microsoft for internalizing this concept.

Good for them for consolidating, but it honestly amazes me that the project even got this far.

</comment><comment><USER31> ". We will continue to work with Verizon in the U.S. to sell current KIN phones."

They must indeed have some units left to sell still -- just today I heard an ad for the Kin on the radio.

</comment><comment><USER32> The umpteenth MS product launch killed off within 3 years.

Aside from the particular products, this behavior over the past several years has caused MS to lose all credibility with me. I wouldn't trust them with any critical or even moderately important aspect of my life -- business or personal -- outside of their well established, cash cow products.

I have no interest in having my own investments (in time, not just -- or, rather, more so -- than money) subject/captive to this behavior.</comment>


Girl Power at School, but Not at the Office - <AUTHOR> http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/31/jobs/31pre.html?ref=business

<comment><AUTHOR> _"... Then I left the egalitarianism of the classroom for the cubicle, and everything changed. The realization that the knowledge and skills acquired in school don't always translate at the office is something that all college graduates, men and women, must face. But for women, I have found, the adjustment tends to be much harder. ..."_

Another reason to break the mould and try startups. You can get good at playing the game or redefine it.</comment>


How to get A+ rating with your SSL (Nginx Edition) - <AUTHOR> https://dev.hummdis.com/projects/dev-null/2019/get-an-a-rating-with-your-ssl-nginx-edition/ <comment><USER2> I find the guide quite bad because:

1\. It manually specifies ciphers - it's a bad idea because it requires constant maintenance, use `HIGH:MEDIUM:!LOW` (or `HIGH:!MEDIUM:!LOW`) instead because I heavily doubt you need NIST/HIPAA or whatever compliance.

Just make sure you update both nginx and openssl (Debian/Ubuntu has `unattended-upgrades` for example) when you have automatic cipher selection enabled.

2\. It conflates browser TLS guideline headers and just browser security headers - only `Expect-CT`, `Expect-Staple` from those (applied by the .htaccess file) all are actually TLS-related

3\. It forgot to explain pretty much all of the headers it suggests you to slap on - for example `Strict-Transport-Security` and what it does

4\. Doesn't mention how even TLS-related headers can break your site. Doesn't mention how rest of the headers can break your site - don't slap them on your stuff blindly!

5\. Modifies every cookie to httponly - this __will __break things (javascript cookie access for example) and you should configure your application to do this

6\. .htaccess is not really the nginx way of adding headers

7\. The comment in the .htaccess code block about apache/nginx adding any headers (by-default) is wrong - if it requires a prequel tutorial then it should be better mentioned

8\. Doesn't talk about using DNS CAA record - which it should if your goal is secure TLS

Just... don't follow this guide. Configure TLS and browser security separately, use [https://ssllabs.com/ssltest/analyze.html](https://ssllabs.com/ssltest/analyze.html) to test your TLS configuration and [https://securityheaders.io](https://securityheaders.io) for browser security headers.</comment>


"Remorseless" renewables are approaching a final frontier - <AUTHOR> http://qz.com/680240/remorseless-renewables-are-approaching-a-final-frontier-after-which-everything-will-change/ <comment><USER2> "[S]olar, wind and storage technologies continue their remorseless—if not breathtaking—decline in cost."</comment>


Ask HN: How can I send a secure email? - <AUTHOR>

I want to send a message and a few files to my accountant securely, and I want him to be able to reply securely.  He's not too technical so I'd prefer something simple that didn't require a browser extension or a particular email client.<p>What's the best way to do this? <comment><USER2> Define "securely". Against whom are you defending? What threat modes are you considering? What do you expect your accountant to be able to do? What do you expect them _actually_ to do when they read this "secure" email?

It's really not clear what you're asking ...

<comment><AUTHOR> 'Securely' means that only my accountant can read the message and view the files. I'm afraid I don't know what a 'thread mode' is. I expect my accountant to view the information I provide, reply to me securely and then submit my tax return on my behalf.

<comment><USER2> That's "Threat" mode, not "Thread" mode.

Do you want to defend against:

* ... someone in their office reading the email if your accountant's computer is left unattended?

* ... your ISP storing the email and reading it?

* ... _their_ ISP storing the email and reading it?

* ... someone sniffing the packets through a router?

* ... the NSA reading the emails?

If you want your accountant not to have to do anything, then you need something like storing the emails and/or documents on an "https" only server, and then sending them a link. Given your comment about not wanting them to have to do anything, this will be one way only, and they won't be able to reply securely.

Sending them an encrypted email and asking them to read it will, I believe, require them to set something up, and you seem to have ruled that out.

You could use something like a password in a standard document format, and then phone and tell them the password separately. I think you can password lock Microsoft Word files, for example. Not very secure, but secure enough against idle sniffing. Probably not secure against a full on attack by someone seriously capable.

So, again, against what, exactly, are you defending?

<comment><AUTHOR> At the risk of being too inexact: I want to defend against all those things, although I don't think it's practical to defend against someone in his office looking over his shoulder or reading his screen when he gets up to make a coffee.

Using a password-protected Microsoft Word file is an option, but it's a little cumbersome because (a) I would also have to password-protect the other attachment files separately; and (b) he would have to reply with a password- protected Microsoft word file and individually password-protect any files he wants to send me.

I like the idea of an https server, but why won't my accountant be able to reply? That is, accountant clicks a link to the https site, puts in password, sees message, clicks the 'reply' button on the webpage, then I get an email saying 'click here to see your accountants reply'.

<comment><USER2> With regards defending against the NSA - I believe you have no chance.

With regards the password protected Word files, yes, you would have to protected every attachment, and your accountant would have to password protect every document in the reply. But what else would you expect?

With the https server, will you implement the mail package? In other words, what "Reply" button? Even then, the document will be stored in clear on the server, so whoever owns it will be able to read them. So that had better be you.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> Encrypt a single message 1\. In the message, on the Message tab, in the Options group on the ribbon, click the Encrypt Message Contents and Attachments button Note If you don't see this button, click the Options Dialog Box Launcher in the lower right corner of the group to open the Message Options dialog box. Click the Security Settings button and in the Security Properties dialog box, select Encrypt message contents and attachments. Click OK and then close the Message Options dialog box. 2\. Compose your message and send it.

Encrypt all outgoing messages Choosing to encrypt all outgoing messages means, in effect, your e-mail is encrypted by default. You can write and send messages the same as with any other e-mail messages, but all potential recipients must have your digital ID to decode your messages. 1\. On the Tools menu, click Trust Center, and then click E-mail Security. 2\. Under Encrypted e-mail, select the Encrypt contents and attachments for outgoing messages check box. 3\. To change additional settings, such as choosing a specific certificate to use, click Settings. 4\. Click OK twice. Note3DES is the default encryption algorithm used in Outlook 2007. For more information, see the Overview of certificates and cryptographic e-mail messaging in Outlook.

</comment><comment><USER4> Get a GMail account for yourself and your accountant; choose half-decent secret questions; enable two-factor authentication; use webmail (exclusively) to send mail back and forth. (Do _not_ set GMail to forward mail to another account.)

It should be obvious that this isn't secure if your local government decides to come after you, and will likely fail if someone specifically comes after you(r accountant), but it does keep mail from travelling over unprotected lines and stored on a pretty well-protected system. Crucially, although it's slightly less secure than a perfect implementation of some of the other suggestions on this page, it's _much_ easier.

[GMail is good, but not magical; if your accountant already has an account at, say, Hotmail, consider setting up a Hotmail account instead, even if you do lose two-factor authentication in the process.]

</comment><comment><USER5> I'm not saying this will solve all of your security needs, but I use it and have for years. <https://www.hushmail.com/>

</comment><comment><USER6> I am biased (full disclosure - I'm a founder), but TitanFile offers a secure file sharing solution (encryption, audit trails...) . There are free accounts available for new users at titanfile.com.

</comment><comment><USER7> encipher.it[1] actually looks like it'll fit the bill. It's a browser tool that works from a bookmark, but does all the encryption clientside with JS (I've done a quick glance through the code to verify this)

You and your accountant just need a shared password. For the other attachments, a protected zip/rar file should be sufficient.

[1] <https://encipher.it/></comment>


Ask HN: What do you do during compilation? - <AUTHOR>

I'm currently working on a project that takes ~3 minutes to compile. Slightly too long to stare into space, but if I start reading an article then I invariably lose focus on the work I'm doing. Does anyone have any good solutions to this problem? <comment><USER2> Can you add hooks to your compile process?

Write a program or script during those 3 minute breaks, just keep the project open in another window and switch to it whenever you're compiling, write a few lines and then go back to your work.

The program could query the YouTube API for short videos {duration: 'short'}, make a playlist sorted by popularity, remove the videos you've already seen and then auto-play them in an overlay/lightbox on your screen. The playlist should continue until the compile has finished, when it will notify you and return you to your work after the current video has ended. It would also need some way to return you to your work immediately if you don't want to watch (a key and mouse click), or perhaps a way to stop the script from launching in the first place.

And definitely open source it ;)

<comment><AUTHOR> This is a great idea! Something to focus on for <= the amount of time the compile will take, without any opportunity to head off down a distractions rabbit hole.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> 3 minutes for each compile quickly adds up. What measures have to taken to optimize the compile time? See

[http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2008/12/hardware-is- cheap-p...](http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2008/12/hardware-is-cheap- programmers-are-expensive.html)

[http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1539347/what-are-ways- of-...](http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1539347/what-are-ways-of-improving- build-compile-time)

[http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1073384/what- strategies-h...](http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1073384/what-strategies- have-you-used-to-improve-build-times-on-large-projects)

</comment><comment><USER4> How much can you do without compiling? One of my current projects involves a painfully slow SharePoint system. Actually building and deploying takes forever, but most pieces of code that I need quick feedback on can be built outside the main project then integrated later, which is much easier.

When I do need a full build, I make sure it is a single step run from the command line so I can go get a coffee while it runs.

Sure, actually speeding up the build would be better, but sometimes that isn't an option.

</comment><comment><USER5> Start to think how you can reduce your build time, there is a lot of approaches to reduce compilation time depending of your programming language and your environment.

I have seen huge compilation time improvement on C++ projects using different tips :

\- use SSD to reduce link time

\- distributed compilation on several hosts

\- reduce amount of template to avoid world recompilation at each change

\- ...

</comment><comment><USER6> Start drinking lots of water.

But you could also spend every three minutes to try to speed up the build. Dependencies, compiling unchanged source, tests, etc. There are so many ways to speed this up. If that's not possible, maybe you can step back and think of something more creative.

</comment><comment><USER7> What language are you using? There can be different strategies for different languages to speed up things.

</comment><comment><USER8> Press ups work well for me - although, might not work so well in some office environments.

</comment><comment><USER9> <http://xkcd.com/303/>

</comment><comment><USER10> xoki.com</comment>


Apple is shutting down OpenNI - <AUTHOR> http://www.openni.org/ <comment><USER2> Between this and Testflight, I get the impression that Apple wants to _rule_ its app ecosystem in the feudal sense. Whatever "indy" contingent there is, it is just meant to effectively be the bush leagues for the major league, which is Apple itself.

Hopefully, Apple will realize that it's sometimes better to co-opt than to control, especially when what you'd be trying to control is an ecosystem experiencing dramatic growth. It's this kind of realization that resulted in the iOS App Store in the first place.

That said, Apple is in a good position to continue its feudal rule, for now, as (IIRC) Apple's income is far larger than that produced by the App Stores in aggregate. This would be analogous to the late Middle Ages when the rise of the merchants began, but their wealth and power were still dwarfed by the feudal power structure and the church. The merchants were useful to the existing power structure, but still had to kowtow to it.

So the way to defeat Apple, if that's what you want to do, is to foster the growth of a better ecosystem than the iOS App Store. (Or, it could be worse, but still bigger, unfortunately.)

<comment><USER3> Nonsense! Shutdown of existing product is a pretty common outcome for any acquisition

In some cases like Google acquiring Sparrow, it's because the acquisition was really a case of hiring an entire team. In other cases, the shutdown is so the acquisition can focus their efforts on a new product. This is clearly the latter case.

I know that in some circles folks make Apple out to be some sort of evil. Be careful that your bias doesn't lead you to make claims that are unsupported by evidence.

<comment><USER4> If you define "good" as spreading knowledge and access to technology across all platforms, and "evil" as shutting down multi-platform technologies and restricting them to just one walled-garden ecosystem, then Apple is definitely "evil" in this instance.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> It's just what Ben Farrell predicted: [http://www.benfarrell.com/2013/11/28/primesense-purchased- by...](http://www.benfarrell.com/2013/11/28/primesense-purchased-by-apple/).

Apparently I have to buy something with a fruit symbol on it, to be able to develop for 3D sensors in the future...

<comment><USER6> This is when I'm especially thankful for open source licenses. The OpenNI2 repository on github currently has 148 forks:

[https://github.com/OpenNI/OpenNI2](https://github.com/OpenNI/OpenNI2)

I've been using OpenNI2 with ROS and an ASUS Xtion Pro Live for object detection and avoidance. What I think the community is missing is missing right now isn't really on the software side, but is good, cheap, hardware. I'd be thrilled if I could buy a Carmine or something like it from Apple, but I don't see how it makes any business sense.

<comment><USER7> The NITE driver is what matters, though. OpenNI is just a wrapper and an API.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> This is exactly what we knew would happen. Apple is not our friend. They are at best an ally, and at worst prepared to destroy an industry for the sake of profit and domination.

<comment><USER8> "They are at best an ally, and at worst prepared to destroy an industry for the sake of profit and domination."

This is everybody in the industry. Convince yourself otherwise at your own peril.

<comment><USER9> _This is everybody in the industry. Convince yourself otherwise at your own peril._

Really? Even open source projects? Or let me guess, you'd argue that open source projects aren't part of the "industry".

<comment><USER10> Well, if RMS and similar zealots could have their way, they would have crushed the software industry for the sake of OSS/GNU domination. If he could influence policy, for example, he'd probably try to ban proprietary software.

And if you think that's beneficial, well, I for one would rather keep my Premiere and Logic and the (dongle locked) Reason, than just be forced to use the crappy open source alternatives out there.

<comment><USER4> People who want good software would find a way to make it and pay for it even if proprietary software were outlawed (which I don't think is a good idea, for the record).

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> Apple does not want to contribute to the open source community?

<comment><USER12> Is that surprising?

<comment><USER13> Yes, repeating this nonsense that Apple is against open source is indeed surprising. Bus I guess facts should not interfere with opinions.

<comment><USER14> so what's your explanation?

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15>
      Error establishing a database connection

...Website down; some info: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenNI](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenNI)

</comment><comment><USER16> Why does the title say Apple is shutting down OpenNI, then link to a page that says nothing about it? Furthermore, how do you shut down someone else's company, and how do you shut down a project whose code is freely available? This doesn't make sense.

<comment><USER17> The page states prominently that the website will be closed after April 23rd. Primesense is Apple's property. Apple can do whatever it wants with it. Lastly the open source code will still be available, only the website will shut down as far as I understand it.

<comment><AUTHOR> The story is a change of paradigm as well. Primesense sold depth capture hardware, the kind that made lot of open source projects possible. Killing openNI is the final nail in this coffin. The open source depth capture world is left in a void right now, and this being open source, it'll take a while before any competitor will make their API work with all that we've been making.

<comment><USER7> What about libfreenect?

[https://github.com/OpenKinect/libfreenect](https://github.com/OpenKinect/libfreenect)

<comment><AUTHOR> They do different things. Not clear what can be discussed online, but the Kinect 1 is on its way out, and there's no open source replacement as of yet.

<comment><USER18> The OpenKinect group is working on the Kinect One.

You can totally come participate - [https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/openkinect](https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/openkinect)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> It is not about the software. OpenNI is useless if there are NO MORE sensors. Xtion, structio.io all based in prime sense sensors !

</comment><comment><USER20> What does this mean for the Structure Sensor's integration with OpenNI?

([https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/occipital/structure- sen...](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/occipital/structure-sensor- capture-the-world-in-3d#project_faq_68196))

<comment><USER21> Pkinsky - Adam from Occipital here (we make the Structure Sensor).

As of now, you can use OpenNI with the Structure Sensor on any platforms currently supported by OpenNI. We've also forked OpenNI on GitHub (along with many others who have done the same) to make sure it remains available after April 23rd.

For those who don't want to compile code, we'll also host binaries at [http://structure.io/developers](http://structure.io/developers) for OS X and potentially other platforms.

We're working on creating new open source Structure Sensor drivers for Android, Linux, Windows and OS X (these are not based on OpenNI at all). Let us know if you'd like to contribute to that effort by sending us an email at structure >at< occipital.com.

Keep in mind that the discontinuation of active maintenance for OpenNI does not affect the Structure Sensor for iOS at all because on iOS, we use Structure SDK, not OpenNI.

Keep an eye on [http://structure.io/developers](http://structure.io/developers), or sign up for the Structure SDK developer email list for more info.

<comment><USER19> For how long will you be able to provide the hardware? You are using prime sense sensors so Apple could shut you down anytime, no ?

<comment><USER21> Despite Apple's acquisition of PrimeSense, we're on track to fulfill all existing Structure Sensor demand and beyond. Interruptions are possible if we have supply chain issues, but we're optimistic that we'll be able to deliver Structure Sensors for the foreseeable future.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> Is there more information available than just that quick statement on the front page? The about page calls openNI a consortium and lists 5 founding companies [1].

[1] [http://www.openni.org/organization/](http://www.openni.org/organization/)

</comment><comment><USER23> So, is there anywhere that indicates that the github codebase (under the apache license) @ [https://github.com/OpenNI/OpenNI2](https://github.com/OpenNI/OpenNI2) is also going to be scuttled? Or just the website?

</comment><comment><USER7> It's more profitable when things can't interoperate.

</comment><comment><USER14> there doesn't seem to be any explanation of how/why apple is doing this.

anyone know what's up?

<comment><USER24> The same thing that was "up" when they bought Siri, Inc (from SRI International).

They acquired a technology that they're going to use to differentiate their products. And apparently they feel it's a more strategic technology than, say, WebKit or LLVM.

<comment><USER25> They didn't "acquire" WebKit or LLVM in quite the same way as Siri or OpenNI.

<comment><USER24> And no-one said they did.

I mentioned WebKit and LLVM to make the distinction between technologies Apple has no problem making available to 'the community' and those they do not.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> Right before they are set to release a new version of the Apple TV. I wouldn't be surprised if these two things are related.

<comment><USER27> Why would they be related?

<comment><USER28> well, you can put a kinect type camera on the tv and then use it for gesture based input. just like kinect.

so theoretically maybe people could make kinect apps for apple tv / iOS?

(sorry, i'm using the term "kinect" since i'm not sure what the real term is for this type of thing)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER29> [https://code.google.com/p/interactive- spaces/](https://code.google.com/p/interactive-spaces/)

[https://github.com/interactivespaces/interactivespaces](https://github.com/interactivespaces/interactivespaces)

</comment><comment><USER30> I bought a DepthSense 325 which is the chip behind the new Creative / Intel 3d cam coming out

[http://www.softkinetic.com/en- us/products/depthsensecameras....](http://www.softkinetic.com/en- us/products/depthsensecameras.aspx)

</comment><comment><USER7> Right now I can buy a used Kinect for about $35.00 and write code using OpenNI that gives me access to the 3D depth map from the Kinect. If I can't do this anymore, what is my recourse? Will libfreenect remain open?

<comment><USER18> libfreenect will remain open.

PCL and OpenCV will similarly remain open.

The loss of Primesense is the loss of NITE. The only recourse is a team building an open source skeletonization alternative.

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> Those who are looking for the OpenNI drivers, they are still open source and can be downloaded through [https://github.com/OpenNI/OpenNI2](https://github.com/OpenNI/OpenNI2)

<comment><USER7> For how much longer will the drivers remain open? Microsoft was able to kill OSS libraries that made calls to DirectX and OpenGL hardware interchangeable. Seems like Apple would like you to get their permi$$ion from now on and could do the same.</comment></comment>


Time Your Attack: Oracle's Lost Revolution - <AUTHOR> http://www.wired.com/magazine/2009/12/fail_oracle/

<comment><USER2> Oh come on. What about Sun "The network is the computer" Microsystems? What about Java, originally designed for a settop box, as described, way before 1995? Although I tend to credit Sun with the idea, the concept was in the air. There's even a book (fiction) about it, "The first 20 million is the hardest".

I guess Sun can't buy ad space in Wired anymore... Oracle can.

BTW one page: <http://www.wired.com/magazine/2009/12/fail_oracle/all/1>

</comment><comment><USER3> _"What the world really wants," Ellison told the crowd, "is to plug into a wall to get electronic power, and plug in to get data."_

With all the cheap netbooks and handhelds today, this is the end-point I see the world saturating to.

Well, apart from developers - who need good full-feature machines with apps and toolkits - the others would only need access to the internet. I see it something like "turn on the computer" vs "turn on the net".

Bulding an OS around a web browser, Chrome OS, I think is a step towards this goal.

[EDIT: Oh ya. Chrome OS has a mention at the end of the article]

 _"Mr. Larry is near Australia in his sailboat and can't be reached,"_

I believe that whatever hotshot CEO you are, you must always be accessible by your employee and be ready to discuss their problems (atleast if not your customer if you have a CS team).

<comment><USER4> I bet he can be reached by people he considers more important than Wired journos.

<comment><USER3> That line wasn't about their response to Wired :) That was what his assistant told the Oracle's NC team when they wanted to discuss a problem about the machine with him.

P.S: You didn't read the article did you? ;)

<comment><USER5> > That was what his assistant told the Oracle's NC team when they wanted to > discuss a problem about the machine with him.

If it was a technical problem, what are the odds that his input would have been helpful?

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> _Productivity tools and games that are run as applets written using protocols like Ajax and Ruby on Rails. No downloads required._

The "no downloads required" part is true. The rest... not so much.</comment>


Y Combinator Challenge #3 - New News - <AUTHOR> http://astartupaday.wordpress.com/2008/07/23/y-combinator-challenge-3-new-news/

<comment><USER2> I like the idea of making all the news have a more uniform format. Rss feeds do this, but only to a certain extent.

Also, if it got successful enough they could hire their own reporters. It would be great to do video clips as well as textual news articles as the site seems to imply, although this would involve a lot more work it seems.

In that same vein, I wonder how well a site that streamed talking heads doing news 24/7 could do if the anchors were professionals (i.e. at least up to the quality of cnn,msnbc, fox,bbc, not that they are always the best measure of quality).

</comment><comment><USER3> <http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Main_Page> \- pretty close to what is described in the post.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for the link - definite similarities in the end goal, but for me the big difference is that this doesn't capture the fun and excitement of a real newsroom. The ideal execution of this idea would be much closer to a social game than a collaborative tool.</comment></comment>


Alphabet seeking at least $2.6B from Uber in self-driving legal battle - <AUTHOR> http://www.marketwatch.com/story/alphabet-seeking-at-least-26-billion-from-uber-in-self-driving-legal-battle-2017-09-20 <comment><AUTHOR> Hm....This part doesn't look to good for Anthony.

During the hearing, Waymo's attorneys alleged that Levandowski had taken "thousands of photographs" of company documents displayed on a personal computer to avoid detection while duplicating the materials. At one point, a Waymo lawyer suggested that Uber's attorneys had 64,000 Levandowski photos in their possession, though Uber said some of those are personal.</comment>


Tripoli's Green Square now Martyr Square on Google Maps - <AUTHOR> http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=martyr+square,+libya&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wl

<comment><USER2> Searching for "Green Square" and "Martyr Square" (in English at least) seem to find the same place.</comment>


RoR classroom training for beginner in silicon valley? - <AUTHOR>

A female friend of mine (located in mountain view) is looking to get started with Ruby on Rails programming and build career in software development. She has almost no previous programming experience. What are the options? <comment><USER2> I dont know about the physical bootcamps, but i did the Tealeaf Academy last year, and ended up with job as a rails developer shortly after completing it. I also barely had a programming experience, sure I had to take Pascal in college many years ago, but had ZERO OOP experience. I'd recommend checking out gotealeaf, she'd be able take the course while still working at her current job. She should be 100% sure, that programming is something that she's interested in. As a prerequisite, she should complete this: [http://prework.flatironschool.com/](http://prework.flatironschool.com/) and see if enjoys the aspects of programming. Best of luck!</comment>


Why do some people seem to like working in companies? - <AUTHOR>

I've always wanted to be free...to work as an entrepreneur...yet I always seem to meet people who want to work as employees for corporations.  I would say the majority of people in society are like this. <comment><USER2> Funny. After 12 years of working for myself, I'm back to working for someone else. I wasn't good at operating a company that was much more then myself an 1 or - in the good times - 2 other people. I felt trapped by the job, as if taking a vacation would leave everything in shambles.

Working for someone else I don't have to:

      * Deal directly with complaints
      * Chase after money when people are late in paying
      * Be an accountant
      * Be a salesman

Working for someone else I do get to:

      * Leave my work at work.
      * Keep mostly to a 35-45 hour week
      * Collect my paycheck every two weeks
      * Go on vacation knowing everything will be fine while I'm gone
      * Focus on what I'm good at, and what I enjoy
      * Work flexible hours
      * Lead a generally less stressful life.

So ... the real question is -- why do some people want the stress and uncertainty of being self employed?

<comment><USER3> These are pretty much the exact same reasons for me.

Ran my own business for 5 years, and went back to working for a big corporation for the easier hours, reliable/consistent pay, and only having to do what I do well, without all the extra side-tasks distracting/annoying me.

I'd consider running another business one day, but i'm in no rush... I see this as a cruisy period where I can save up money, enjoy a social life, pay off a house, etc.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> One answer I've gotten from a mathematician was more or less: I like solving mathematics problems, and working in a company means I get a never-ending stream of mathematics problems to solve, where the question "why are these problems worth answering?" is someone else's job to solve. There's something liberating (for at least some kinds of jobs) about being able to just solve problems "for their own sake", because it's someone else's responsibility to invent and justify the problems, and you can treat them as magically justified problems that fall from heaven. This probably works better for people who like focusing on specific aspects of problems (e.g. treating something as a pure mathematics or engineering problem), and less well for people who like more integrated/cross-cutting problem solving (which working for yourself both allows and demands).

I personally find the bureaucracy/procedures a bit stifling, though. The paycheck is nice, but meetings and standard software and performance reviews and whatever is a drag, even in relatively freedom-loving academia.

</comment><comment><USER5> For some people, work is solely a way to pay bills; those who work to live, not live to work.

I also think it's reasonable that while some people do like to be their own boss, others may prefer to be soldiers in an army (those on the front lines, doing the base work), as opposed to the ruler. Others want to be generals (management).

Maybe they're not comfortable in the responsibility, or just feel their abilities best align in a different work structures than those you may prefer.

</comment><comment><USER6> Marketing, accounting, and business development have less than zero appeal for me. Like someone said in a recent thread, I employ my employer to take care of that stuff.

</comment><comment><USER7> Some people find employment attractive because they have run their own business. Some people find large corporations attractive because they have worked in small offices. Finally, some people place less value on being their own boss than elsewhere.

And if you think being self employed/an entrepreneur/owning a business is going to make you free, you're confusing hard work and stress with Fuck You money.

<comment><AUTHOR> I don't think that being free as the opposite of hard work.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> My reasons:

       * Benefits
          * 401K matching
          * Health insurance
          * Stock options
       * Perks
          * Food
          * Special discounts with corporate partners
          * Training/classes/conferences
          * Transportation
       * Wide-scale impact
       * Salary
       * Stability
       * Brand recognition

</comment><comment><USER9> Simple:

1) Some people like following rules, not making them. 2) Financial stability and job security.

My personal observation: I think the set of people who like working in large corporate structures overlaps significantly with the set of people who really enjoyed the structure and orderliness of school.

<comment><USER10> I disagree with point (1) and only somewhat agree with point (2).

For point 1 - I definitely don't like rules, and I have found that if you create enough value, you get away with making your own rules and can come very close to having a feeling of running your own business.

For point 2 - in the high tech industry, you can make as much, or more, income without the uncertainty of self employment/own business. Running a business is HARD. I tried it, for many years, and ultimately failed (well, I failed financially, but learned a hell of a lot - so not a complete failure). Perhaps I was in the wrong business, but I simply didn't enjoy the non-technical aspects of it, which consume the majority of your time. The ROI wasn't there - not for me. Not every business is going to make you rich - in fact, most of them will not. I can't say I've given up permanently, but I have gone back to the corporate world for now and do not regret it. I disagree with the job stability portion of this point - you have ZERO job stability when you work for someone else. I firmly believe you have more stability working on your own than for a vast majority of companies. The concept of job security is a false sense of security.

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> I've done both. Currently I'm working for a company. The one awesome, amazing thing is that on the 15th and end of the month I get a paycheque, and it's always the same. After taxes, that money's all mine, to do anything I want with. Also I get _paid_ to take vacation, and it's strongly encouraged.

</comment><comment><USER12> I've done both. I liken entrepreneurship to owning a race team. I'd rather "drive the race car" and let the team owner deal with everything else.</comment>


AOSP source code back online - <AUTHOR> http://groups.google.com/group/android-building/msg/c73c14f9b0dcd15a?pli=1

<comment><AUTHOR> Two main points:

1\. Google is moving the AOSP away from kernel.org servers to Google servers.

2\. The source code for Ice Cream Sandwich will be available "once it's available on devices".</comment>


Open-Source Engine for Heroes of Might and Magic 3 - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/vcmi/vcmi <comment><USER2> I highly admire projects like this. Something even as simple as a core engine rewrite is a spiritual undertaking. I do not recall if Heroes 3 was multiplayer or not, but making the game multiplayer over TCP required the engine to limit itself to the use of integers since a single floating point would butterfly effect its way into destabilizing the lockstep system used in peer to peer networking. AMD / INTEL / POWERPC systems of the day (and even today) have millions of flags to configure the FPU at compile time.

As a shameless plug, and if anyone's interested, I'm doing something similar with Age of Empires 2: [https://github.com/glouw/openempires](https://github.com/glouw/openempires)

<comment><USER3> Heroes 3 did have multiplayer via LAN, and IIRC it had online multiplayer as well. It worked pretty well for the time; the fact that the game is turn-based probably helped in that regard.

<comment><USER4> And it has hotseat - players taking turn at one computer, that was the mode me and friends always played.

<comment><USER5> I think the number one after-school activity for me and my friends was at some point HOMM 3 (and 2).

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> I think I have the Linux version of this game in my attic.

Steam and GOG had big sales through the end of December that had me looking at some old games like this. I thought about getting some Microprose games to spare me the trouble of copying them from 5.25" and 3.5" floppies (if they're even readable anymore), but I figured it was just as well to leave the graphics and gameplay to my rose-colored memory.

It did get me thinking about what it takes to bring classic games to a modern audience. Grim Fandango and Age of Empires have gotten updates, primarily to the assets. The negative reviews tend to focus on old-fashioned gameplay, or bugs that _still_ haven't been fixed after umpteen years.

A project like this reminds me of the ScummVM engines, which basically provide a new platform for old assets. It's harder to get excited about this, because it's just one game.

<comment><USER7> Just to be clear, this post kinda implied to me that HoMM 3 doesn't run on modern machines. It does, and there is a patch that provides higher resolutions and some other features.

This is still cool though, but it's not required to play the game on a modern PC.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> Open Source Game Clones

[https://osgameclones.com/](https://osgameclones.com/)

<comment><USER9> The site was born many years ago with something like 6 entries and the HoMM3 recreation from OP (VCMI) was one of those first entries, if my memory serves me correctly.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> the recent revival of hmm on ios by a major editor ( can't remember the name) was such a disappointment... They completely changed the gameplay to adapt it to the current trend of buying things on the store to progress faster...

There's such a big opportunity for a simple port of hmm on mobile with regular gameplay and maybe a small refresh of the graphics !

<comment><USER11> Was that really HoMM? IIRC that's a HoMM-lookalike that's basically Farmville.

Sidenote, I absolutely detest the modern trend of games that push you to buy things every five minutes or watch an ad every half.

<comment><USER12> I gave my 6yro an old WiFi-only iPhone to futz around with and download a few games. She ended up with a bunch of shovelware that shows ads after every level, and the "levels" are trivial things built on top of some kind of physics engine. It is sad beyond belief.

Now I am despairing because I want to find a good mobile game, something that you can buy and play that feels like a FF6 or a Ultima or Super Mario type thing without annoying in-game purchases or wait-to-play mechanics. But it's slim pickings... it seems the industry has evolved to be codependent on those things and now that's what most of the content is like. :(

<comment><USER11> I am in exactly the same boat as you. I downloaded Head Ball 2, as 1 used to be a very entertaining game, and in 2 I spend 90 seconds in a match and two minutes watching ads, scratching scratchers and opening "free gift packs".

I ended up buying Planescape Torment for those 50 hours of engrossing story with no ads or payments. If you find any other games, please let me know.

I should create a website called "no-bullshit games", actually.

<comment><USER13> I would shop this! (and send it to others ) - especially if sending a playcard gift.

reminds me of about a year ago I was searching for ad free apps for the play store and found zero resources - I don't mind paying for something, but I want it ad free / total privacy and zero interruptions.. never did find a way to search the play store for things in this way.. it's even obscured within the play store on more details - you can get ranges of prices for in app purchases, but nothing tells me, pay X to get ad free..

So I found f-droid eventually, but I want a way to give from the play store to others - just no list of no BS games and apps..

luckily I found 'missed reminder' and 'rssDemon' long ago when it was easier to find a single-price-point, premium version available app.. now a days it's too much work trying to use the play store or the G search engine.. this noBS site sounds like heaven.

<comment><USER11> Try it (and submit some games)!:

[https://nobsgames.stavros.io/](https://nobsgames.stavros.io/)

Obviously, the UI is going to be entirely replaced (and the iOS info fetching isn't ready yet).

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> Heroes of Might and Magic (specifically 2 and 3) and Worms (the 2D ones like Armageddon), were the pinnacle of multiplayer entertainment for me.

Sure, there were quicker fixes, like Street Fighter etc., then later the convenience of online with Warcraft 2, StarCraft (dialing up directly to your friend's computer), but..

Having a couple friends come over and having some good natured competition, seeing their reactions in person, having to think up strategies in a way that wouldn't make it apparent what you were going to do, the shifting alliances of teaming up against whoever was winning, the impromptu bets and bargains...

That was a kind of fun that I haven't seen replicated since.

Startup Idea: A sort of alternative arcade for hotseat PC games like that.

</comment><comment><USER15> I wish there also was an open-source engine for WarCraft 2, with modern AI, big screen resolutions support but without the drawbacks of modern RTS games like GPU power requirements (making it hard to play them on commodity hardware) and excessive graphics complexity (making map and tile design hard).

<comment><USER16> I want the same thing for the opposite reason.

I want someone to make an RTS with sprites instead of 3D models and shader- based flow simulation for path finding so I can have battles with billions of units.

Sort of like how Total Annihilation could scale but updated for modern computer architectures.

<comment><USER17> > shader-based flow simulation for path finding

Are you aware of any real world examples that implement this? I've seen a few research papers over the years, but nothing beyond a rough proof of concept. As a fellow TA fan disappointed by SupCom and every other RTS since, this sounds tempting.

<comment><USER18> As a Total Annihilation fan, what displeased you about Supreme Commander?

I adored TA, but I"m _REALLY_ struggling to come up with anything better than Supreme Commander.

TA's ships moved like molassess. TA's planes had enormous turning radii. TA's big units were effectively useless because they took far too much resource to build.

<comment><USER17> Three things displeased me. First, one of the (many) ways in which TA was revolutionary for its time was that it largely emphasized thinking over rapid micromanagement and SC was a regression in this regard, an unnecessary concession to the RTS scene of the day. Second, how technically underwhelming it was in terms of pushing the envelope in scale, unit counts etc. compared to the gigantic leap in available performance between 1997 and 2007. Third, the unsolvable technical limitation that any game against the AI (including custom AIs) would eventually crawl to an unplayable lagfest - this is still true even on today's hardware.

<comment><USER18> Well, the primary problem was that Supreme Commander made a bet that "Teh Pretty(tm)" was worth pursuing (probably as a result of complaints about TA). SupCom absolutely murdered graphics cards of the day--and it still plays like a dog on modern integrated graphics. Consequently, unit count was always going to be limited.

I suspect that modern graphics cards could probably chew through this--but you need to build an engine that leans into the way modern graphics cards work.

<comment><USER17> Emphasis on graphical fidelity was an issue when it came out, but the long term performance nightmares are all single threaded CPU bottlenecks. The whole engine just scaled really poorly with increased unit counts and AI/pathfinding computations. For a game that's basically all about scaling that was something of a dealbreaker.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> Aren't there copyright issues with this game? Not that I'm against developing it anyways, but - wouldn't the organizers/leads get into trouble with Ubisoft?

<comment><USER20> That's why the readme says:

> To use VCMI you need to own original data files.

<comment><USER19> And is that enough to put the new game developers in the clear? I wonder...

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> Nice. There is a open source engine for the original X-Com games - OpenXcom. I recently started playing a total conversion mod for it called X-Piratez. Its a total blast.

</comment><comment><USER22> license _/ (function(f){if(typeof exports==="object"&&typeof module!=="undefined"){module.exports=f()}else if(typeof define==="function"&&define.amd){define([],f)}else{var g;if(typeof window!=="undefined"){g=window}else if(typeof global!=="undefined"){g=global}else if(typeof self!=="undefined"){g=self}else{g=this}g.PIXI = f()}})(function(){var define,module,exports;return (function(){function e(t,n,r){function s(o,u){if(!n[o]){if(!t[o]){var a=typeof require=="function"&&require;if(!u&&a)return a(o,!0);if(i)return i(o,!0);var f=new Error("Cannot find module '"+o+"'");throw f.code="MODULE_NOT_FOUND",f}var l=n[o]={exports:{}};t[o][0].call(l.exports,function(e){var n=t[o][1][e];return s(n?n:e)},l,l.exports,e,t,n,r)}return n[o].exports}var i=typeof require=="function"&&require;for(var o=0;o<r.length;o++)s(r[o]);return s}return e})()({1:[function(require,module,exports){ /_* * Bit twiddling hacks for JavaScript. * * Author: Mikola Lysenko * * Ported from Stanford bit twiddling hack library: * [http://graphics.stanford.edu/~seander/bithacks.html](http://graphics.stanford.edu/~seander/bithacks.html) */

"use strict"; "use restrict";

//Number of bits in an integer var INT_BITS = 32;

//Constants exports.INT_BITS = INT_BITS; exports.INT_MAX = 0x7fffffff; exports.INT_MIN = -1<<(INT_BITS-1);

//Returns -1, 0, +1 depending on sign of x exports.sign = function(v) { return (v > 0) - (v < 0); }</comment>


GitHub, Collaboration, and Haters - <AUTHOR> http://sourceforge.net/blog/github-collaboration-and-haters/ <comment><USER3> While I don't really approve of the anti-sourceforge attitude, I do understand it; when SF had essentially a monopoly on open source project storage, they chose to milk it and rest on their laurels rather than improve themselves. People complained about how SF broke wget with their download portals for something like four years before SF did something about it. SF's forced review of every project creation (and their gigantic delay in doing so) had a strong chilling effect on open source project creation in general.

A lazy monopoly has a way of generating extreme hatred due to the impotent rage of the people that use it because they have no other option. SF may have drastically improved in the presence of competition, but it's no surprise that some people are still angry.

<comment><USER4> Wait, wait, wait.

SF has a" monopoly" and a "chilling effect" that makes you "angry", because their completely free service was not good enough for someone?

What does Sourceforge owe anyone?

<comment><USER5> No, _you_ wait.

Sourceforge owes nobody anything. And we don't owe it anything either. So don't mind us if we don't help fix SF.

Github is as 'completely free' as sourceforge. Firefox is as 'completely free' as internet explorer. So yes, it does make sense to use 'completely free' and 'not good enough' in the same sentence.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Three years ago I attended an "open-source CEO" dinner, at which I was seated between the CEOs of SourceForge and CollabNet (founder and principal proponent of the Subversion VCS). I asked the CollabNet CEO what he thought about Git, and he was dismissive, indicating that Subversion had already won. I then asked the SourceForge CEO if he knew about GitHub; he was vaguely familiar with them, but appeared utterly unconcerned. I thought to myself, _All the battles have been fought and lost, and these guys don't even know there's a war._

<comment><USER7> Not really surprised there. I've worked for both CEOs of SourceForge and Collabnet (the software that I worked with, SourceForge Enterprise Edition was purchased by CollabNet in 2007). CollabNet's CEO seems to think that Subversion will change the world [engineering's had a DVCS integration into SFEE (now teamforge) for the last two years, but product management wouldn't allow it to be included], and SourceForge is nothing more than a media company that's bootstrapped by thinkgeek.net.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> The reason why GitHub has become so popular is due to the fact they put code and developers first. Surfing to a repo doesn't bring some overview or ads page.

Opening a repo actually show useful stuff for me as a developer. The source is there together with an optionally inlined README file, rendered with popular micro markups. Then add the ease of forking and you clearly get something people really like. This style of presentation isn't of course for everybody. But GitHub chose to target developers above end-users.

GitHub could have been "SVNHub" or "hghub" for all I care, the technology is secondary in this case (but close behind).

<comment><USER9> In a way, you're right. However GitHub's model is subscriptions fund the free yet small open repositories whereas SourceForge's model is advertisement (I can't find a way to on SF though).

So naturally, GitHub had to appeal for subscribers. While for SF, I always thought ads was stupid due to the educated demographic that would likely have adblock.

<comment><USER10> Most of the people who go on SF, are people downloading popular open source software binaries. See <http://sourceforge.net/top/toplist.php?type=downloads_week>

And those people are not the educated demographic that have adblock...

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> SourceForge is a business, not a charity project. If they were providing this service out of the kindness of their hearts, I'd absolutely agree that people should knock it off.

However, sourceforge is doing this to make money. What business owner with any common sense hears customers complaining about them and tells them it's rude? If customers complain about your service, you empathize with them and find out what you can do to improve.

Whatever respect for sourceforge I had just went away. You can't just ignore customer complaints because you're open source.

<comment><USER12> SourceForge is both a business and a project...the project was created because the people behind it wanted to build something for the Open Source community. They succeeded, and achieved remarkable things. If you weren't around the Open Source community ten or more years ago, you might be forgiven for not giving them their due credit. But, I was around, and I'm grateful for what SourceForge has provided, and still provides, the projects I've worked on over the years. If they got lost on the way to finding a workable business model, or if they failed to keep pace with the rapidly-changing Open Source landscape, that's certainly worth talking about...but heaping hate on people who've tried to do good things for the community for _years_ is low and nasty and it's something I don't like to see.

Most of the people who use, and have used, SourceForge have never paid for the service. If someone hasn't paid for it, and hasn't contributed to it in any real way, I don't see how it's right for them to complain about it in an obnoxious way (angrily on twitter or reddit or whatever). Send a patch to fix the problem, submit a ticket, etc. But, spewing anger without having done anything to help just makes someone a cancer on the Open Source community. If you don't like SourceForge, don't use it. But, don't pile hate onto someone that's done good things and continues to do good things.

I absolutely understand where the SF folks are coming from. Sometimes, I feel this way, too. When you have a project with millions of users, there's going to be someone who can't help but heap hate and anger on you; it's human nature, I guess. In this case, though, it seems even worse...because folks are kicking SourceForge when they're already on the ground trying to figure out WTF to do to regain some of their old luster.

I'm pretty much certain they aren't talking about "customer complaints" here. I'm sure they don't mind that kind of thing; they've been dealing with it for over a decade. I'm pretty sure what they're talking about are the "SourceForge sucks!" type rants about how evil SourceForge is. And, on that count, they're right to be upset.

<comment><USER11> I was around. Look, giving away open source software might have been a big deal back then. It isn't now. Lots of companies release open source software, up to and including open sourcing their entire product.

The reality of the matter is that SourceForge is a dinosaur that needs to die. They may have once been great, but they aren't anymore.

Say what you will about the trolls, but they're right. And sourceforge has no one to blame but themselves.

Not to mention that it's our right to say whatever we want on our twitter stream, regardless of if we've paid for or tried to help the object of our complaints. Sourceforge doesn't owe me anything, nor do I owe them anything.

<comment><USER12> _Look, giving away open source software might have been a big deal back then. It isn't now. Lots of companies release open source software, up to and including open sourcing their entire product._

That's not what I'm grateful to SourceForge for. I'm grateful for the _terabytes_ of transfer they've provided my projects over the years. They've also effectively hosted mailing lists and websites that receive tremendous traffic. I have my doubts that github could handle all of those aspects of that kind of service, even now that they've grown up. I suspect they'd have a lot of the same growing pains SourceForge experienced.

 _The reality of the matter is that SourceForge is a dinosaur that needs to die._

Really? You have no concern at all for the thousands of projects that still rely on SourceForge infrastructure?

I don't think I'm ever going to be able to see eye to eye with you on this one.

 _Not to mention that it's our right to say whatever we want on our twitter stream, regardless of if we've paid for or tried to help the object of our complaints._

Yes, it's your right to say anything you want. But, bitching without doing anything positive makes you a drain on the community, rather than a help. Bitch all you want about problems; but unless you're helping solve them, I reserve the right to view you (very) negatively because of it.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> I haven't posted anything bad about sourceforge, had missed the controversy they referred to. I totally agree with everything the author said (and thought she said it very well). However, I have to admit that when I saw the title of the article and the domain name (before I read the article) I could feel myself gearing up to get angry at sourceforge and defend github.

I can totally relate to people who root for one technology to win and trash another, because I totally root for technologies all the time. I get really annoyed when a "bad" technology comes out with a good feature I wish the technology I was rooting for had. Which is kind of insane when I think about it. This post was a good reminder about how irrational that rooting and fanboyism is. I will have to be more mindful of that stuff, because it really makes me blind sometimes.

<comment><USER14> I think it is only natural to have favorite technologies, whether it's an OS, editor, language, or even automobile brand. I think it is also fine to point out advantages of one solution over another because it helps others when they need to make a choice. I think all of this can be done in a rational manner without fanboyism.

I would like to see more rational discourse, not only in the realm of technology, but also in politics. It is seldom a question of A is awesome and B is crap. Often the comparisons are complex, and the right choice may have some dependence on circumstance. Or in the case of politics, party A may have a good position on some issues, and a bad position on others.

People have a tendency to choose a side and fight all-out for their side as right and all others as wrong. We used to do this with race or religion, and now we're doing it with other things. However, to successfully deal with the problems in our world, we need to rise above such simplistic thinking and realize that in our big complicated world, there is often a need for multiple approaches. And even if one alternative is truly superior to another, we have to realize that the superiority might not be clear to everyone, so we need to learn patience with those who may for whatever reason make the inferior choice. We also need to have the humility to admit that there might even be something we can learn from the other side.

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> While I agree the hate is unnecessary, calling out random Twitter users in a company blog post isn't very classy. It comes across as a petty attempt at revenge.

<comment><USER16> I think they were trying to cite concrete examples, not exercise any form of revenge. It's not like they called them names or anything.

<comment><USER17> still seems petty.

<comment><USER18> I think they were going for "funny". It worked, imo.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> A note to all startups: this is not how you should respond to brand criticism. SF.net and GitHub are in competition, and a heartfelt blog post does not make your product better. Spend your time iterating, and make something that is actually better for your customers. GNOME didn't get to the point it's at today by saying "KDE is fine, but GNOME is open source too! Same team!"

<comment><USER20> seriously. anyone reading this without having heard of github or sourceforge would still be able to read between the lines and understand that

a) everyone agrees github is kicking sourceforge's ass, including the folks at sourceforge.

b) no one expects this to change, including the folks at sourceforge.

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> I always smile a little bit when I see the force of creative destruction. Kudos to the guys at github who ignored the threat of google and built a business that is profitable and beating established incumbents.

I am sure the folks at sourceforge have their hearts in the right place, but a tarnished brand is a tarnished brand. They could launch a better product than github tomorrow, but I'll always have the frustration of trying to use wget on SF in the back of my mind.

</comment><comment><USER22> Sourceforge had his time. As MySpace had his time, too. They where cool a few years ago and where the best thing that could happen to the internet, but we moved away from those for better solutions. Solutions that weren't possible without those sites. I am very thankfull that Sourceforge existed. I hosted my first projects there, too.

Good bye and please stop crying like a baby about the hate you are getting. You have two options: make your site as easy to use as github or continue dying. Crying publicly is none of those :) .

</comment><comment><USER23> Overly defensive. The existence of haters on Twitter doesn't merit a blog post.

</comment><comment><USER24> We're definitely in agreement at GitHub. This industry, like every other industry, isn't a zero-sum game; plenty of growth to be had for everyone. This is a nice post, and it's been fun seeing the stuff SF has been building in the last year or so in particular.

</comment><comment><USER25> Honestly, I think that SourceForge used to be _easier_ to use than it is now. When it had its old interface circa (2002-2005 ish) I could find the information and do the tasks I wanted to do. It is difficult for me to find /anything/ on SourceForge these days, when I am forced to use it at all.

SourceForge was (and perhaps is) a great place for open source. I don't think it was a "lazy monopoly" or even a "monopoly" at all. There were always alternatives. Always other places one could go to host code and share code. When it was the most popular site, it was the best site. Now it is simply not the best site. I am super productive on Github, and unless something 5x better comes along I don't think I will move off of Github.

</comment><comment><USER26> There is definitely a social scene in geekdom now with its own zeitgeist that is independent of underlying intellectual factors. Using the terms from Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, geeks used to inhabit just the intellectual plane (although like any gathering of people, there will be some social aspects to their behavior).

Nowadays, with so many self-promotion and socialization tools out there (and which capture so much of our attention), geekdom is as much a social phenomenon as an intellectual one.

<comment><USER27> Quality.

<comment><USER27> Jesus, you can't make an intelligent reference here without some judgemental unread dufus voting you down. This isn't the first time--I've had enough of this HN.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER28> I'm firmly with the haters on this one.

They chose to ignore their community for the better part of a decade. And now that their ad-revenue declines they're suddenly "on our side"?

As far as I am concerned they can take their whiny blog-post and shove it.

</comment><comment><USER29> Here's a reason for SourceForge hate. At least as of a couple weeks ago, when you go to download a file, you are shown a survey (as a sort of ad). There is no indication that the survey is optional, and initially I thought it was required. If you ignore the survey you can still download the file, and I was able to figure that out eventually. A less experienced user wouldn't be so lucky, thinking that the survey is required, thus revealing personal or business information that they shouldn't have to.

</comment><comment> St-Clock Yes, SourceForge sat on their "monopoly" and did not innovate. Yes, they got complacent. But they were so ahead of their time! If I remember correctly, SourceForge even used to offer a compiler farm so you could try to compile your library/program under different environments.

Their mistakes benefited to all new services and competitors. If GitHub had been the first to offer this kind of service, they may have committed some of SF mistakes.

</comment><comment><USER16> Personally I don't get why there's so much negativity. I love GitHub just as much as the next guy, but I don't see why that makes SourceForge insignificant or irrelevant. Haters gonna hate, I guess :(

<comment><USER30> > Personally I don't get why there's so much negativity.

I'm guessing a significant portion of it comes from how terrible the SourceForge experience has been for a very, very long time (I don't know if it's changed, I haven't had to actually use sourceforge in a long time): insufferably slow, brain-dead logical layout of project pages, UI complexity, ...

The kind of feeling which comes from _having_ to use a crappy tool for a long time does not go away easily.

<comment><USER31> Would tend to agree. This new generation of repo sites for the most part has learnt a lot of lessons about how to do things. In some ways, linking to individual tweets feels a bit like bitching at people - <USER2> understandable, but not really doing anything but making them seem upset.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER32> There are some aspects that SF still do a lot better than the competition on. Nobody is even close to competing with the speed and breadth of their mirrors.

<comment><USER33> I've never hand bandwidth trouble with either github or google code. With SF I get an arcane 2001-Era dialog where I choose from 12 options that don't tell me anything - just imagine what this is like for an normal end user.

In any case, bandwith and storage cost falls faster than executable sizes grow, so in a few years this will be a non-issue for competitors even if you assume that it is an issue at the moment.

Edit: Githubs download expierience:

<https://github.com/mirrors/linux-2.6>, click on downloads in upper left corner, click 3.0-rc1, downloading 115mb and my bandwidth is saturated at 2MB/s.

</comment></comment><comment><USER34> I wonder why neither the original link nor this SF blog post mention BitBucket - I think they give a pretty good, GitHub-like experience, just with Mercurial. Both are definitely more pleasant to use than SF

</comment><comment><USER35> You want code examples to learn, you want people to talk to as developers, etc search github..

SF is of the same banal cabal as java.net who make the mistake that they own the community. Github assumes that they must earn their role in the community..big effing difference!

<comment><USER36> I almost made a snarky comment on the sf comment section about how they aren't the most unpopular kid, there is always java.net!

</comment></comment><comment><USER37> Very well said.</comment>


WordPress 2.7 Released  - <AUTHOR> http://wordpress.org/development/2008/12/coltrane/

<comment><USER2> Been using it for the past week for a client's site. All of the themes and plugins I've thrown at it have worked perfectly. Nice job!

</comment><comment><USER3> The new UI looks really slick.</comment>


Yummy cookies across domains - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/blog/1466-yummy-cookies-across-domains <comment><USER2> This is a great article. It is nice that github is comprehensively explaining how they are protecting user data to reassure their users.

However, this is one of the rare blog posts that go on to educate the reader about the technical aspects of something (in this case -- cookie attack vectors) that they can put to use somewhere in their own projects. Unlike a high level gloating blog post that is meant to inspire awe in the readers about how awesome company X is doing thing Y.

</comment><comment><USER3> Very well written blogpost, but it would be nice if they didn't downplay the severity of the original blog post:

A PoC of how you could clone private repositories, such as the github.com source code itself at github.com/github/github (as an assumed example)

<comment><USER4> Until the fix everything was possible.

I think they meant "within this few weeks period you could not fixate CSRF token"

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> Would adding a HMAC string to the cookie value not get around this issue? For example, Tornado has the set_secure_cookie method ([http://www.tornadoweb.org/en/stable/web.html#tornado.web.Req...](http://www.tornadoweb.org/en/stable/web.html#tornado.web.RequestHandler.set_secure_cookie)), would this not prevent this sort of attack? Even if a script modified the cookies, they would never (well, hopefully never) be able to generate the correct HMAC token so the server could just discard the cookies. You'd still be able to sign a user out but there wouldn't be a security issue (I think). Anyone smart able to verify/refute?

<comment> X-Istence You as the attacker can visit the page and get yourself a session cookie that is valid and set that on the victim's computer...

<comment><USER5> Would it increase security to include the user-agent, or part of the user- agent, in the HMAC secret? So the secret was "abc123Mozilla[etc]", that would then presumably require identical browsers to work, at the expense of logging everyone out every time their browser updates. Or include all, or part of the IP address to restrict the network.

<comment> X-Istence Using the IP address to restrict it would work, since now the attacker would need to have the same IP address to get a session that will stick, but this may cause users to be logged out when their ISP changes their IP, or when they move from home to a coffee shop for instance.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Doesn't this issue affect Tumblr (and Blogspot, and Wordpress) as well? They all allow arbitrary javascript to be injected by the user in a subdomain, so how are they tackling it?

<comment><USER7> IIRC only the blog front ends are on the blogspot.com domain. All user logins/blog admin etc are on the blogger.com domain (and no *.blogger.com domains).

(not used their services for ages, so there might be more overlap than i remember)

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> It sounds like Rack should fix these cookie vulnerabilities, so users don't need to rely on middleware workarounds.

<comment><USER9> These are not vulnerabilities in Rack (necessarily), but in the way the cookie spec has been drafted and the way Chrome decides to implement it. There's nothing that can be "fixed" in Rack: the only definitive fix is a domain migration.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> What sort of malicious things can be accomplished with a cookie tossing attack?</comment>