Termux: terminal emulator and Debian-style userland as an Android app - <AUTHOR> https://termux.com/ <comment><USER2> Termux is a great project, may it be for cli lovers, hackers, road warriors ...

However, I have little trust in mobile devices nowadays and I don't feel safe copying private ssh/gpg/vpn/credentials data on them anymore. Planned obsolescence, theft risk, vendor/hardware/firmware issues, general feel of lack of control, ...

As a consequence, I tend to use my smartphone as anonymously as possible, mostly as a camera, an actual phone and 4G modem, tethering via usb/wifi to my laptop. It's simple, it feels safe and obviously it's not as practical.

I'd love postmarketos --or something similar-- to succeed, so I could leverage the privacy/backup strategies I have already set in place on laptops and servers that actually make me feel safe.

<comment><USER3> I have a complete opposite feelings: mobile apps are actually sandboxed, modern phones have secure elements in hardware and the attack surface itself is pretty limited.

On the other hand, there's virtually no sandboxing on your laptop. As software developers, we pull random code from the internet all the time and it's generally trivial to steal every secret that your user has access to ([https://xkcd.com/1200/](https://xkcd.com/1200/))

Personally I'm not worried about baseband processor (or Intel ME) owning my device. I'm more worried about some random malware installing a keylogger and/or stealing my whole LastPass database. This would be virtually impossible on mobile, but is relatively trivial on laptop.

<comment><USER4> You sir, have very misplaced priorities.

<comment><USER5> I'd argue that both risk surfaces are large, not that the priorities are misplaced.

There's little of _any_ electronics I trust much these days.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> I tried this out a little while ago and I was really impressed. It's worth mentioning that this isn't just a Debian chroot/container, the software is actually compiled to run natively on the Android NDK. It seems like they work around any limitations of Bionic compared to glibc by patching NDK headers and using support libraries.

Check out their "ports tree" to see what packages are available: [https://github.com/termux/termux-packages](https://github.com/termux/termux- packages)

<comment><USER7> What exactly would you use it for? Not trying to be negative, I'm just not sure what would be worth typing out on a phone keyboard on the go, instead of waiting until I have access to an actual keyboard. I guess if you have a keyboard for your phone that's also different. (so for android tablets etc this is great)

<comment><USER8> Chromebook

I'm still waiting for Amazon to restock after I saw this post go up: [https://blog.lessonslearned.org/building-a-more-secure- devel...](https://blog.lessonslearned.org/building-a-more-secure-development- chromebook/)

<comment><USER9> On my chromebook I use crouton[1], which is arguably more "native". You get an Ubuntu install in a chroot and can even run X11 apps in a chrome window. I was even able to compile neovim, you just need to set it up to use the system's lua and luarocks.

[1] [https://github.com/dnschneid/crouton](https://github.com/dnschneid/crouton)

<comment><USER10> Termux works on stock chromebooks _without_ switching to developer mode.

<comment><USER11> This is very important for schools which may lend students Chromebooks and thus likely restrict dev mode.

<comment><USER12> They would likely restrict play store installs, and currently there is no way to side-load Android apps; the normal Android developer mode options does not allow side-loading anyway, much less an enterprise managed device. I don't think there's any way to "restrict" dev mode, necessarily... anyone can put any Chromebook into dev mode, and lose all data that was on it in the process.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Termux is amazing (not possible to get equivalent on iOS without jailbreak). The number of packages in the repository, as well as the speed of version updates (sometimes in line with Arch Linux - a rolling release) are really amazing.

Bought all the paid add-ons to support the developer. It's one of the most valuable assets I miss on iOS (doesn't matter that much now as I've got Linux x86_64 and ARM with me on the go).

<comment><USER14> Where do you find the paid add-ons?

<comment><USER15> [https://play.google.com/store/apps/developer?id=Fredrik+Forn...](https://play.google.com/store/apps/developer?id=Fredrik+Fornwall)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> I was recently surprised to discover folks are using this on old phones or tablets as a "server" in various capacities.

You have storage, camera, at least dual network access (wifi + otg usb ethernet + cellular), a battery (ups), autostart capability via a purchase, basic package support.

Smaller than a laptop, way more self contained than a Pi, enough for some basic tinkering for sure.

<comment><USER17> Can I create script which snaps a photo let's say every minute? Basically, is camera available through terminal?

<comment><USER18> Yes. [https://termux.com/add-on-api.html#termux-camera- photo](https://termux.com/add-on-api.html#termux-camera-photo)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> Neat! As a test I installed nano and python, then used pip to install flask, wrote a web application from nano and ran it from my phone... Opened it from my laptop and everything works like you'd expect.

Sometimes I forget that these devices are just little computers!

EDIT:

I tried to get pyserial working (so my phone could talk to an arduino mini over USB) but hit the issue of not being able to access /dev for lack of root. Still, it's very cool.

<comment><USER20> Cool!. Was that a non rooted phone?

<comment><USER19> Yep, just a standard Pixel.

<comment><USER20> Did you try the Termux-chroot package mentioned in [https://wiki.termux.com/wiki/Differences_from_Linux](https://wiki.termux.com/wiki/Differences_from_Linux) to see if /dev might work ?

<comment><USER19> I still get "Permission denied" when I try to "ls /dev".

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> In an ideal world I could purchase a (usb c) dock that has some connectors and plug my awesome OnePlus 5 in to have a somewhat usable computer at home.

I know Samsung wants to do something like that now (but I won't ever again buy a Samsung phone). I'd root (and pay) for a generic solution that makes my phone usable on a big(ger) screen.

<comment><USER22> Android phones have been able to connect to bluetooth or usb mouse and keyboards since nearly the very beginning. The only thing 'missing' is the screen. Samsung (and other) phones have supported external screens for many years now, often via MHL (although, as you say the Dex dock now packages it all together). I don't believe that the OnePlus5 supports external screens, but I may be wrong. You might be able to get something working with network screen casting.

<comment><USER21> I know that, but connecting a keyboard or mouse to a phone is useless, the big screen is crucial.

And while there were options to do that in the past, all were one-offs and needed an extra port. So I guess we both agree about the capabilities that exist(ed), but that is exactly the reason why I posted my "In an ideal world" wish. There is no solution today as far as I'm aware. Which is a shame, given the power that these smartphones have.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> Been using this app for SSH and it's been amazing. Side note (not the most optimized way), but want to run something in the background? $tmux $[run command] $shift (volume down) + B, then d (detach virtual term) command is running in tmux in background $tmux attach (to get back into the virtual term) See their docs obviously.. but using a mobile terminal I've been using this primarily for my tasks

</comment><comment><USER24> Been using this for quite a while now, awesome app. Solved all my needs for a decent SSH terminal, and even for running a pocket version of Emacs.

<comment><USER25> I tried this Emacs for org-mode. It was not that good experience. Very recently I found orgzly[0]. It might be interesting for you too.

[0] [https://github.com/orgzly/orgzly- android](https://github.com/orgzly/orgzly-android)

<comment><USER26> Oh no way, orgzly is open source? I've been using it extensively but have been very frustrated with the fact that it doesn't sync automatically. Time to git clone...

<comment><USER27> Or if you'd rather not fork, check out this write up of an approach to getting Orgzly to sync via termux and Tasker: [https://2li.ch/home/syncing-org- files](https://2li.ch/home/syncing-org-files)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER28> Wow. Given that this works with ChromeOS, this appears to give me what I've been looking for for a long time: something that makes a Chromebook a usable developer laptop.

Now time to buy a Chromebook and try it out.

<comment><USER29> Having tried it, it's an "almost there" solution. Termux is a proot, not a chroot. This means you can't do certain things. You end up in a state where you can run nodejs and react, but you can't run create-react-app successfully. Rustup doesn't work in Termux, when it does booted into Linux on the same chromebook. You can git clone, but you can't clone a repo from a USB stick. Every single time I tried to do any development on it, the attempt ended in "nearly works" frustrations.

<comment><USER28> That's a bummer to hear.

<comment><USER30> I couldn't do bumpy and jupyter notebook Even though there are tutorials online.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER31> If you plan on trying Termux, you should also look into Hacker's Keybaord: [https://f-droid.org/packages/org.pocketworkstation.pckeyboar...](https://f-droid.org/packages/org.pocketworkstation.pckeyboard/)

In landscape mode, it provides all the keys found on a regular keyboard which make life in a terminal easier (tab, ctrl, arrows, etc.).

EDIT: In Google Play Store: [https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.pocketwork...](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.pocketworkstation.pckeyboard)

</comment><comment><USER32> If I open this on my phone, run vi <enter>, and type some text - how do I input <escape> so I can say :wq ?

<comment><USER33> Use an alternative keyboard, like Hacker's Keyboard.

[https://f-droid.org/packages/org.pocketworkstation.pckeyboar...](https://f-droid.org/packages/org.pocketworkstation.pckeyboard/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER34> I use Termux a lot too, because the Nokia N900 spoiled me and taught me to use Terminal on phone at all times.

Instead of Android + Termux, one can also look at Sailfish OS. You get all that functionality by default. There's also PostMarket OS [1], which should support at least some Android phones

[1] [https://postmarketos.org](https://postmarketos.org)

</comment><comment><USER35> I love termux. The only negative I can say is that I think touch keyboards are a bit awkward doing terminal work. (note that termux has a few hidden shortcuts such as when holding volume up wasd becomes arrow keys etc.)

I use the termux widget to give me one-click access to a bunch of rsync over ssh commands. It is the best backup solution for android I've ever come across (this can also be automated with apps such as tasker or automate). Using rsync I also have two-way syncing for some folders so that I can easily put a file I want on my phone on my nas and then just sync it.

I always felt the rsync apps on the play store to be extremely clunky and when not wanting to go through a cloud the alternatives are limited. But this works perfectly.

edit: Also, being able to SSH into my phone and manipulate using a real keyboard and bigger screen is quite pleasant.

<comment><USER36> You need to use Hacker's Keyboard [https://f-droid.org/packages/org.pocketworkstation.pckeyboar...](https://f-droid.org/packages/org.pocketworkstation.pckeyboard/)

<comment><USER35> Thanks, but I'm not a fan of hackers keyboard, maybe it is worse because I use a nordic layout but I barely find it usable in portrait mode (which is what I almost exclusively use).

<comment><USER37> There is Gesture and key actions option inside Hackers keyboard options that allows to switch keyboard layout using Volume keys.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> I've been using Termux for about a year and a half now, and can very honestly say that it is the single best and most useful capability I've yet found on Android.

I can _also_ say that it's not entirely there, and has a number of significant limitations as compared to a full-featured Linux desktop or laptop.

My equipment: A Samsung Galaxy Tab A 9" tablet, with a Logitech "Type-S" self- supporting folio case/keyboard combination. _I have major reservations against both pieces of hardware and can recommend neither on the basis of capabilities, vendor support, and artificially-imposed limitations._

That said, the _form factor_ , _display_ , and _battery performance_ are exemplary. The tablet runs virtually all day on a charge, the keyboard for months, under heavy use. I've long sought a highly-flexible, lightweight, portalbe, long-battery-life system, and in terms of the fundamental physical package, this is almost completely there.

The keyboard has had physically-damaged keys since the beginning, Logitech first refused, then temporised, and finally claimed it did not _have_ a suitable replacement product. (Why a keyboard/case should be dependent _at the model-number level_ with specific hardware kit is entirely beyond me, and shows a desperate need for industry standardisation.)

Samsung's Tab A has proved resistant to rooting or re-ROMing, _including the ability to make a back-up of the system prior to such activities so as not to lose critical data_ in ways that can only be described as deliberately user- hostile. I was not aware of this at the time I purchased the device, under exigent circumstances, and would not do so again.

Termux allows breaking out of many of the limitations of the Android "ecosystem" (I prefer to think of it as a toxic waste dump, but that's another story.) Be aware that Termux itself has a number of components, _including_ base Termux, the Termux API Android App, the Termux package repository (based on app), and multiple third-party repos (e.g., pip for python). Collectively these provide a basic terminal environment, nearly 800 packages (a small count by Linux standards, but a surprisingly useful selection), and many more utilities through third-party utilities.

 _Not_ provided are a system root, full access to external storage media (I have a 128 GB microSD card, but can only make very limited use of it thanks to Android stupidity), or full access to the Android side of the house, though some interactions, including application intentions and clipboard interaction, _are_ supported _and are tremendously useful._

Another major limitation of Termux appears to be its terminal implementation itself. This is good so long as you're going forward, but is _painfully_ slow in any back-navigation actions -- e.g., scrolling backwards in less and other pagers. Delays can be _of many seconds._ I've learned to quit out of files and re-open them from the start rather than going backwards. Experimenting from other Android console apps suggests this is a fault within Termux itself.

I've also had many lag and freeze issues using Termux for remote SSH access -- it's OK for quick or noninteractive (e.g., remote command-execution) interactions, but _not_ for prolonged SSH sessions. This is tremendously disappointing as Termux, unlike other SSH tools I've used, _doesn 't_ map the <back-navigation>/<esc> key to "navigate out of the application". Critical when editing files in vim, and making apps such as SSHBot entirely useless.

I've found the community and developers helpful (excepting the two major issues above, I've seen multiple small issues fixed rapidly), and again, compared to the sheer uselessness of stock Android as a Real Computing Platform, this is a transcendental leap.

But it's Still Not Full Linux, and if that's what you're hoping for, you'll be disappointed.

On that point: Samsung shocked the motherlovin' stuffin' out of me last week in announcing (and reported here on HN) that they would be supporting full Linux distro installation on future Android devices. That would be a welcome development.

 _Stuff that absolutely rocks under Termux_

Bash for file management. _Every goddamned Android file manager in existance sucks balls._

mps-youtube. Install via pip. Provides console-mode, backgroundable, youtube video access. mps and mvs are related applications which can play other remote or local audio and video files (generally just the soundtrack). _Media can be backgrounded, lists can be compiled and saved, content can be downloaded, and much, much, much more._

The Termux-API App. This provides access to the clipboard, application intents, and various Android capabilities. _You need to install the "termux- api" package as well under apt._ The ability to find specific files (say, from my 6k+ PDF library) _and launch them to a PDF reader_ is just ever-so-slightly useful. (The degree of fail of Android Apps in this space is ... staggering.)

APT. God I've missed this.

vim, emacs, python, perl, ruby, ... An amazingly complete package set.

SSH. Limitations noted, it's vastly superior to App-based SSH clients.

<comment><USER38> I've never had the issues you mention with Termux's terminal emulator, but usually I run tmux inside Termux, so you may wish to try that and see if it doesn't improve things a bit.

<comment><USER5> I have, locally and remotely, most especially in less.

Using the Termux ssh daemon and connecting to localhost from another Android terminal app or SSHBot doesn't exhibit the problem. I've got a github issue open.

<comment><USER38> Well, if you've seen it you've seen it. I was suggesting a workaround in the form of tmux inside your termux session.

<comment><USER5> Noted, I'll give it a shot. Haven't much looked at tmux given long-term use of screen.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER39> I use this when teaching Linux. Let's people quickly get comfortable in a shell

</comment><comment><USER40> I installed this months ago and cant figure out how to access localhost through my browser. I wrote a sample flask app and ran it but cant access it outside of termux. Is there a way to do so?

<comment><USER41>
      python3 -m http.server
      http://localhost:8000/  # on phone

However, I haven't been able to access a server running on termux on my phone from anywhere else. I suspect servers are blocked by my mobile ISP (makes sense!), but I never got to the bottom of it.

Should work over wifi though.

<comment><USER42> _I suspect servers are blocked by my mobile ISP (makes sense!), but I never got to the bottom of it._

Many mobile ISPs run NAT, you don't even get a public IP of your own during the session, just an internal one.

<comment><USER41> Thanks! Is there a way to do it? It must support bi-dir streams, they just need to be initiated from the phone.

<comment><USER42> You can use a tunnel like [https://pagekite.net/](https://pagekite.net/) it seems they support Android.

Alternatively, you can DIY by connecting to some other machine using SSH and establishing a reverse tunnel.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER43> This has made my pixel c still very useful although its going to make the linux development story on chromebooks far more secure, before android apps you had to put your system into insecure developer mode. If you need GUI based linux apps then you still will need to either convert a windows machine to linux or run in insecure mode. While running a terminal on your phone might have limited usefulness running a terminal on an android tablet or chromebook with android support is very useful for development.

</comment><comment><USER44> Argh. One of my old phones in my collection is a Samsung Galaxy S Relay "4G" (the 4G in quotes because it was DC-HSPA rather than LTE). It would be a perfect candidate for Termux, being a QWERTY slider.

Unfortunately, it's on CM11 (KitKat), and thus not compatible. Between the collapse of CyanogenMod, LineageOS not picking up the Relay, and the limited specs by today's standards (1G RAM, 8G storage, dual-core CPU), I don't think there's any real future for this handset except as a curio.

</comment><comment><USER45> Hey, I ported apt to Android 4.4 a while back and was hoping to eventually get to design it in a way that it would be a suitable backend for a third party app store that could also safely install core components and patches to phones that allowed it. My main goal was to eventually get Android split up into a collection of packages much like a modern Linux distribution in order to improve security and upgradeability. I'm glad to see termux is taking the first steps towards this :)

</comment><comment><USER46> This is amazing. I've been dreaming of something like this forever for the iPhone. iOS restrictions are probably never going to be lifted, however.

I get by with Panic's Coda terminal, which is great, but even though I have multiple remote servers, sometimes I'd like to run something on my local network, like ping, wireshark, etc

Running mutt as a local mail client would be nice as well

<comment><USER47> I'm currently developing something like this for iOS, and I hope to have a basic proof of concept in the app store by the end of the year. [https://github.com/tbodt/ish](https://github.com/tbodt/ish)

<comment><USER46> Nice Theodore, best of luck!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER48> This is really not too bad at all. I had a go on an Android Tablet. What got in the way was Android itself and the weak hardware.

</comment><comment><USER49> While I love Termux too, I find it really sad that we need such a project to have a usable cli on Android. Google hackers should know better, than to deliver such a stripped down Linux.

I mean we have seen that mobile operating systems can bring a decent toolset by default as Meamo did (don't know about tizen?!?).

</comment><comment><USER50> This will be amazing on the Gemini ([https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/gemini-pda-android- linux-...](https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/gemini-pda-android-linux- keyboard-mobile-device-phone))

<comment><USER51> if it only had "normal" phonecalls (with placing next to an ear) I would bought it right now. Damn, I miss physical-keyboard phone so much

</comment></comment><comment><USER52> This works pretty well with Spacemacs and org-mode as well. The "space" key based navigation is a good fit for touch keyboard.

Not for heavy use, but for quick notes and calendar checking.

I ssh into my home server and drive my spacemacs instance from there.

</comment><comment><USER53> Did anyone think of/tried running Pi-hole on it? [https://pi- hole.net/](https://pi-hole.net/)

</comment><comment><USER54> Great project. You can install Termux on any Chromebook capable of running Android apps and use it as a dev environment.

</comment><comment><USER55> Just want to say thanks to the dev, working great on my BlackBerry Priv with Right Shift mapped to Ctrl.

</comment><comment><USER56> Is there similar iOS alternative?

</comment><comment><USER57> nodejs, vuejs and webpack, android splitscreen, live development on my phone like a charm, also got neet colors, and widgets to launch scripts. Awesome project, i was surprised that it worked 'out of the box'

</comment><comment><USER58> I've been using this for years. USB OTG and a keyboard really help.

</comment><comment><USER59> They also got metasploit-framework which is kinda awesome

</comment><comment><USER60> Node.JS and node-red van run inside an android phone

</comment><comment><USER61> Just wish they had keybase</comment>


What Should a 4 Year Old Know? (2010) - <AUTHOR> http://magicalchildhood.wordpress.com/2010/08/31/what-should-a-4-year-old-know/ <comment><USER3> Probably like many of you I mostly hang out around middle class, highly involved parents. But sometimes I find myself around other parents who are not as involved. I think those other parents don't see themselves as the primary impact on their children; they probably don't see themselves as the primary impact even on their own lives.

Among my peer group there are kids with learning problems and disabilities and all sorts of things. And the parents are watching and notice these problems, and work hard to resolve the problems, and reach out (and know how to reach out) for help. Among those other parents many kids are fine, and will develop quite normally, but there are also kids with learning problems, disabilities, health problems – things that won't just be fine without intervention. And I've repeatedly seen those other parents just not notice, to resign themselves (and thus their children) to these limits.

With this in mind I've realized a lot of rules and materials aren't directed towards me or my peers. These "what your children should know by kindergarten" lists are mostly to catch the kids who are in real trouble, but their parents haven't noticed. (The parents who notice don't particularly need extra reminders that they need to give their children extra help.) A lot of programming and structure is intended to make up for a lack of structure for this particular group of kids.

The involved parents of course always make this about themselves (and me too). Because we're involved, because we're constantly asking "should I worry about this?", because we believe we can make a difference through our effort. So the interventions intended to bring up one set of kids instead get applied – and applied most vigorously! – to an entirely different set of kids that probably didn't need any of it.

And then we go on boards and talk about these lists and are shocked at how limited the expectations of a 4-year-old are (because the lists are intended only to catch kids in trouble) and we start to brag about our kids because we're trying so hard to do the right thing and it's never clear if we are.

</comment><comment><USER4> > That the single biggest predictor of high academic achievement and high ACT > scores is reading to children. Not flash cards, not workbooks, not fancy > preschools, not blinking toys or computers, but mom or dad taking the time > every day or night (or both!) to sit and read them wonderful books.

One of my earliest (and fondest) memories is about my mother reading "The Adventures of Tom Sawyer" to 4-year old me, even though she had had a hard day of work behind her. It got me so hooked to stories and books that I learned to read almost all by myself when I was five.

<comment><USER5> Proud moment: catching the kid up at midnight reading. I can verify it's actually impossible to tell a child off for something you both did and totally approve of.

<comment><USER6> My soon to be 12 year old has been 'sneaking' books/lights into his room for most of the last decade. It is a cool problem to have, except he tends to do it to excess, and end up not getting much sleep. For days at a time.

Serious passion for reading, though we did end up having to 'bring the hammer down' and shake him down for lights before bed, alas.

<comment><USER7> I missed a lot of sleep for my books at that age. It did have some of the negative qualities of an addiction, and _still_ can drag me in -- I broke my toe last week, and tried reading a novel to keep my mind off the pain, and finished it around 5am. And realized I was exhausted, and my shattered toe was throbbing madly, and I hadn't even taken any pills for pain.

These days I mostly read serial online fiction, because it comes comes in metered doses; e.g. [http://pactwebserial.wordpress.com/](http://pactwebserial.wordpress.com/)

My parents quickly realized that "go to your room" was totally a non- punishment for me, and they couldn't reasonably do anything to stop me from reading after they'd gone to bed.

I'd suggest working with your son on flexible solutions -- it could work to ask him to always read more advanced stuff (with more challenging vocabulary, plot, etc.) at bedtime so that it takes more brain-work... that makes it a bit more likely that he'll put it down when he's really tired.

The main thing (I think -- my oldest is only 5) is to see if _he himself_ thinks there's a problem, and (if so) help him hack his own lifestyle, acknowledging that you don't know the answer, but you can help experiment & track the results.

<comment><USER6> Thank you for that.

It's pretty much a solved problem. We talked about it, over the course of several years.

Mostly, for him, it's about self moderation/regulation. He's mildly autistic, so it's super easy for him to get 'stuck' on many types of tasks/actions.

He is now able to grasp and internalize the consequences of staying up all night reading. :)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> This is a big debate in my household. I look at the clear stand-out stars of the world and it is undeniable that the vast majority of them started working on some aspect of their talent between 4 and 6. Whether it be Golf (Tiger woods), Violin (Itzhak Perlman), Cello (Yo-Yo Ma) Mathematics (Neumann) or really any other field, the absolute dominant people started early - <USER2> holding the prodigies aside.

Most importantly though these people were able to cultivate their talents in an environment that encouraged practice and dedication.

I think the right answer is that a 4 year old should be exposed to many different things, see what they gravitate towards and then given narrow and focused instruction on that[1].

I used to believe in the idea of working on weaknesses, but that is only a good way to be "well rounded" \- which is almost worthless today. If you want to really excel in the world you need to be the best at a narrow skill and you do that by working really hard at what you are already naturally good at from as early as possible.

[1]I will say that people do need cross-disciplinary knowledge to really make breakthroughs in fields so that is an important aspect that should be taken into consideration

<comment><USER9> I cannot help but wonder if you actually got what the article says. Sure, forcing your 4 year old to practice some skill for hours each day might lead to her becoming a "stand-out star" in that field. But will it also lead to her becoming a confident, balanced, loving, gentle and caring person?

Will you look back to her childhood without regrets? Will she?

<comment><USER10> It may also lead to her hating whatever it is you're forcing her to learn.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> Missing is the most important advice for toddler-parenting: ignore what other toddler parents are saying. If you want advice get if from parents with older kids.

</comment><comment><USER12> _She should know that it is always okay to paint the sky orange and give cats 6 legs._

I'll be sending this to my son's preschool teacher who marks her pupils' art with a red pen[1]. He's attends one of the "better" schools in Johannesburg.

[1] Later used to diagnose "disorders" and send kids for occupational therapy - part of a huge and well-publicised racket in the area -the rich northern suburbs of Johannesburg could be the OT capital of the world, looking at diagnosis rates.

</comment><comment><USER13> I feel like you do your kid a real diservice by worrying about what they 'need' to know, and then dictating that their time is spent learning that

time is finite, time wasted on learning what all the other 4 year olds know is time that can't be spent learning what they actually want to be learning that will make them a unique member of society

any competitive advantage they'll have in the future will come from them knowing something all the other kids don't know, they'll get almost no advantage from learning the same things every other kid had drilled into them as well

(and that's not even accounting for how much more quickly they'll learn what they're naturally curious about)

<comment><USER14> Money quote right here: "Time wasted on learning what all the other 4 year olds know is time that can't be spent learning what they actually want to learning that will make them a unique member of society", you sir, are absolutely right. +1

<comment><USER15> Except it makes pretty big (and I'd say wrong) assumption, that kids want to learn.

<comment><USER16> I disagree. Anecdotally, every kid I've known has been a naturally curious creature, and I think most kids do want to learn. However, many kids do not enjoy _being taught_ , especially in a school setting. The early years of school are more about teaching children to sit quietly and keep their hands to themselves, which has nothing to do with satisfying curiosity.

That may be what you're saying, but I think the difference is important enough to be more explicit.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> "What should children know" is an overloaded question, and if we are talking about developmentally delayed child, it has a completely different meaning. In that case, there are a certain things a child should know with strong statistical confidence (e.g. 95% of children do this by age X).

Of course viewed in normal school children context, this question has a completely different meaning. Even here the author is confusing knowledge with right kind of environment that produces or fosters it. But a test of knowledge does not test the environment, just the final product of it.

<comment><USER10> I agree with you - I think when a parent asks "what should my 4 year old know", they are looking for that statistical reference:

"Most kids, by the age of 4 know X, know or are in the process of learning Y and probably don't yet grasp Z. if they already know Z, but don't know X, it's not a big deal, they'll get it shortly."

Clearly "My kid knows X, Y and Z" isn't what the parent is looking for. I don't care what _your_ kid can do, quite probably my kid can do a bunch of stuff yours can't and vice versa, I don't really care that your kid can do X and mine can do Z, I don't think less of your parenting, nor your child that they can't do Z and it's not a big deal to me that yours can do X.

When I ask the question, what I'm _really_ asking is so much more complicated: "Is my kid equipped with enough of the understanding and skills they require to feel at home and confident in the grade they're in, while still learning at an optimal pace for them? Are they keeping up with what's being taught or are they struggling? Are they engaged or disruptive? If they're disruptive, is it because they're struggling to keep up and have disengaged because they've lost hope, or is it because they already understand everything they're being taught and are bored? Are they more/less advanced than the majority of the class, do I need to consider keeping them back a year because they're struggling with a lot of material, do I need to fast-track them ahead a year so they're a better social/educational fit with their peers? Do I need to consider some private tutoring for X, Y or Z because they're struggling or because they've hit the ceiling for their peer group for that subject?"

So when I ask "What should my 4 year old know", what I'm really looking for is some assurance: "Relax, your kid is a perfect fit for the grade she's in, she's an amazing child, she's made friends, she's happy, she's engaged, she participates, she's got the confidence to speak, she listens well to instruction and to her peers, she understands and retains information well - she's on par with the rest of her class, a bit ahead in X, a bit behind in Y, but nothing that you need to spend any time worrying about. Just concentrate on having fun with her and enjoying her childhood, she's doing fine."

<comment><USER18> This hits the nail on the head - nobody at all wants to hear about other "slightly ahead" children and such, these things are not useful. People are looking for major deficits.

I know for a fact this is what I was looking for with my son, who is 4 years old with the speech/language skills of a 2 year old -- these things were absolutely important, especially when there were people in his life who were totally in denial. Thanks to these measures, my son can get the help he needs through a speech and language therapist. Impossible if there was nothing to tell everybody that something is wrong.

With my daughter, who is 5 months, I also regularly look up the same things. It's more of an assurance than anything.

It's important to stress that they are a rough measure. As I said earlier, looking out for major deficits, the big red flags. Slightly ahead in one area, a bit behind in another means nothing - each child develops at different paces and at different speeds and these little over-achievements or under- achievements. These things, bundled with a parent like me, is enough to make me fret and get worried but the more it happens the more you learn that if there's no big red flags, the little yellow/green ones are nothing to worry about. I've lost a few nights sleep before learning this one.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> As a parent of a 3 1/2 year old, this was a great read. Development in early childhood is so rapid, I still feel like a new parent. Here's the two things I'd add:

\- How to fall down and pick yourself back up without crying too hard.

\- How to laugh at yourself good-naturedly when you make a mistake, and try again until you get it right.

<comment><USER10> These are really valuable - only cry when it's necessary. Cry because it hurts and you feel an emotional need to cry, don't do it because you think it gets you more attention, that'll wear out in a hurry. (Also: Don't make trouble or drama where there is none.) \- Definitely don't take the yourself too seriously. There's enough to be serious about in the world already, without polluting it further with too much of yours. \- Don't give up just because you make a mistake or failed once... or 999 times. We wouldn't have anything we know in this world if scientists and inventors gave up on every failure, most famously: The light bulb. If you think something can be done and the result is worth the effort, stick at it until you get the result you're looking for. That's how we make progress.

</comment></comment><comment><USER20> Should we start them on Haskell or Lisp?

<comment><AUTHOR> I sometimes ask new parents if they'll choose English or C as the first foreign language.

So far nobody has opted for C.

<comment><USER21> How exactly do you (we?) expect someone who doesn't know English to become a programmer?

Sorry to break it to you, but you can't have one without the other.

<comment><USER22> I've seen French and German code that got by with no significant English (outside whatever wrapped the core functions). It's easier in some languages than in others.

Back in the good old BASIC days, there were even hacks to make those tokenizing interpreters on home computers use German symbols for their keywords. (nice side effect of the tokenized representation: the code remained compatible)

Excel and {Open,Libre}Office Calc work with localized symbols for their functions, too.

I think I've even seen a C header file that wrapped keywords (through macros), types and libc names in translated versions. Luckily those are rare...

So, programming without English is possible - but I really wouldn't recommend it.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> How to self-reflect, and think about how they act. "Don't do to other what you wouldn't do yourself" kind thing. This would come a long way to keep some kids out of trouble.

Not sure if this is really achievable though.

<comment><USER24> Sadly, this isn't realistic. There are cognitive development milestones that must be reached through natural physical development.

See [http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1411647...](http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=141164708) for just one reference.

</comment></comment><comment><USER25> Even in the blog post from 2010 kindly submitted here, the author notes that this writing is from "many years ago," with a link to the old version,[1] so I wonder what she thinks now several years later, as her child has grown up some more.

[1] [http://www.magicalchildhood.com/articles/4yo.htm](http://www.magicalchildhood.com/articles/4yo.htm)

</comment><comment><USER7> This is important stuff - I did first grade twice, because I was a "slow starter" in a lot of ways. My mother had serious concerns about how well I'd do at school, for the first few years (even after being left back -- it didn't help that I was incredibly shy and didn't really want to interact with the teacher), but once I started reading I read voraciously, and got better & better at school as time went on, so by the end of HS and then in university I was at the top of my class generally.

There's still a pile of stuff I wish I'd learned much, much earlier -- like "how to get good at something" (besides just muddling your way into it), and that the basics of skill acquisition apply to social skills as well... so now I'm explicitly teaching these things to my kids, along with a healthy dose of fun and silliness along the way.

</comment><comment><USER26> It was all going well, until:

> musical instruments (real ones and multicultural ones)

Er, what exactly is a multicultural musical instrument? Like a bongo drum? One of them 'ethnic' doodads?

Just encourage your kids to read and they'll educate themselves. No extra work required! Once they get the bug they can read about history (in a better way than school ever could), science and adventure to their heart's content.

I think books, lego and a gameboy (grant me some concessions, we didn't leave Windows 95 until about 2004) were all I needed to get through childhood.

</comment><comment> bulte-rs The unconditional love thing... Times +Inf...

I'm a pretty result-driven person myself, but can't think of anything better to teach my kids than to know they're loved whatever they do.

<comment><USER27> Unconditional love is such a weird concept to me. I definitely wouldn't continue loving my child if she killed my other child on purpose. (Out of jealousy perhaps)

<comment> bulte-rs So would you start hating the killer or start hating yourself for not teaching good vs bad.

Plus - considering the other comment - the concept of permanency is - at least in my very short experience - a difficult concept for a toddler.

<comment><USER27> I don't think I would go from love to hate, as I've never hated anyone. It's just that my love would be lost.

As for a toddler not understanding permanency, that may be. However I don't really subscribe to the idea of claiming something is true (e.g. unconditional love), and then later amending it when permanency is more fully grasped. Similarly, I'm clear from the very beginning that Santa Claus is a fairy tale. I want my children to trust me, and in my eyes trust isn't earned by lying, even when the reason is ageism.

<comment> bulte-rs Thanks for the insights! I think you phrased it more like I actually think about it. You're absolutely right about 'instilling a bond of trust'.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER28> > _That the single biggest predictor of high academic achievement and high ACT > scores is reading to children. Not flash cards, not workbooks, not fancy > preschools, not blinking toys or computers, but mom or dad taking the time > every day or night (or both!) to sit and read them wonderful books._

This startup - Versame - is building a wearable device for children and parents to measure this. Check it out: [http://versame.com/](http://versame.com/)

</comment><comment><USER29> I often wonder if kids need to go to school 5 or 6 days a week, and spend 8 -9 hours there. I like the idea of kids being with other kids, but do they really need to spend most of that time sitting on a bench, listening to classes?

<comment><USER30> Kids spending more time in a chair is a terrible, awful, no good very bad idea.

</comment></comment><comment><USER31> I'm not sure what is best for a 4 year old, but they certainly aren't helped by smug and self-righteous posts by parents that claim to have better answers than other smug and self-righteous parents.

</comment><comment><USER32> Love

</comment><comment><USER33> Why are people incapable of using gender-neutral pronouns? Using "they" makes for a much easier read than alternating "he" and "she".

<comment><USER34> Or at least pick one and stick with it. Traditionally it would be "she".

It wasn't important in this case, but my brain kept flipping back to the previous item to make sure I hadn't made a mistake in reading. Ordinarily it is pretty important to the narrative.

<comment><USER35> Preemptive apologies for potentially stepping in a land mine, but… "traditionally" under what tradition?

Typically in older literature "he" has been used as the neutral pronoun when gender is unknown or unimportant. I've seen a more recent movement towards use of "she", but I don't think I'd say it's "traditional". Am I missing something?

<comment><USER34> Ok... I've seen a lot of publications go with "she" (as in ships, inanimate objects, etc.), but I couldn't possibly care enough to argue.

The Chicago Manual of Style does say "he" (though they prefer "he or she").

<comment><USER35> Fair enough. I've seen "she" used for ships and the like as well, though I've always found that a little sexist myself, as if it were equating women with inanimate objects. In the end I don't care much either, I was just wondering, since I have seen some more recent articles and publications move towards using "she" as a generic pronoun, but I've always attributed that to the influence from modern feminist movements.

My personal preference is for singular "they", for what it's worth.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Show HN: Awesome List with Resources for CTOs and Tech Leaders on GitHub - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/mateusz-brainhub/awesome-cto-resources <comment><USER2> Great list. I've bookmarked this and already identified many interesting articles to read, in particular your articles on sales should be helpful as that is where I have the least experience.</comment>


Windows 10 S is crippleware - <AUTHOR> http://www.computerworld.com/article/3197446/microsoft-windows/windows-10-s-is-crippleware.html <comment><USER2> They are dissatisfied by OS that can run only limited set of programs so they recommend OS that can run only one program — Chrome browser. Where's logic in that?

Another 'gadget press' article.

<comment><AUTHOR> They're also not happy that Windows 10 S is a subset of Windows 10.</comment></comment>


What Are Literals in Python? - <AUTHOR> http://net-informations.com/python/iq/literals.htm <comment><USER2> Ad riddled spam. Is that low effort quora article this is a copy & paste of at least yours?</comment>


King.com, makers of Candy Crush, files for $500mm IPO - <AUTHOR> http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1580732/000119312514056089/d564433df1.htm

<comment><AUTHOR> Some highlights:

\- $570mm net income generated on $1.9bln revenue in FY2013

\- 128mm daily active users

\- Candy Crush Saga accounts for 80% of gross bookings

Given those numbers a $10bln IPO valuation wouldn't be absurd.

</comment><comment><USER2> If you read between the lines, it's the classic case of investors knowing it's the best time to cash out for their ROI.</comment>


How theme parks like Disney World left the middle class behind - <AUTHOR> http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/business/wp/2015/06/12/how-theme-parks-like-disney-world-left-the-middle-class-behind/

<comment><USER2> The article misses a critical detail of DisneyWorld pricing in 1971 compared to today: $3.50 would allow an adult into the park, but it wouldn't get you on any rides.

Ride tickets were purchased separately. A typical book cost an additional $4.50 and got you on seven rides - and not 7 of any ride. Rides were coded "A" (like the railroad) to "E" (Space Mountain and Haunted Mansion). The book had 1 A/B/C, 2 Ds and 2 Es. This is where the phase "E ticket ride" came from. Those were the rides you came for.

If you wanted to ride more than 7 rides? You needed more tickets. Tickets could also purchased onesies, but it added up.

The ticket books were phased out in the early 1980s and transitioned to the "passport" ticket plan where one price got you into the park and could ride any ride as much as you wanted. I remember this distinctly because I was a test visitor for the passports, which we wore on lanyards and flashed at hosts as we walked on to rides. At the time it seemed as radical an idea as the MagicBands are today.

Interestingly, if you added up the individual prices of each ride at Disney World in 1971 on top of the admission, you wind up at $18.40...or $107.49 in today's dollars. Not really far away from the current admission price.

The best deal was probably the first years of the passport system. A 1-day adult admission at MK was $12.00, or $31.23.

Source: [http://allears.net/tix/tixpix70.htm](http://allears.net/tix/tixpix70.htm)

Inflation Calculator: [http://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm](http://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm)</comment>


Giant Sheets of Dark Matter Detected (the largest structures in the Universe) - <AUTHOR> http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2008/02/22/dark-matter-giants.html

<comment><USER2> Okay, now THAT is mind-blowing. I can't even wrap my mind around some of the distances in our own solar system, much less something 270 million light years across. Maybe I wasn't cut out to be an astrophysicist?

<comment><USER3> Such distances are beyond intuition, but I doubt it's something you can't do. You can just imagine yourself walking to a park, just really far away, and you travel really fast. Speaking of which, many people use this "pea in a football field" analogy when talking about electron orbits, but I'm guessing that few if any people can actually visualize such a thing.

<comment><USER2> I hadn't heard the "pea in a football field" one. As a former marching band geek who knows well how big a football field is, that definitely helps get some perspective.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> OK, everyone who complains about crap articles and xkcd comics, here's your chance to put your money where your mouth is and give some upvotes and comments to an awesome article, to get it on the front page. pg's algorithms reward activity, so give activity to the kind of stuff you want more of!

</comment><comment><USER5> I am surprised this did not receive more points or interest. Who isn't interested in the upper and lower bounds/limits of our universe?</comment>


TempleOS: x86_64 HolyC Compiler/Assembler/Unassembler [video] - <AUTHOR> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9yctup6bIw <comment><USER3> There's not a single drop of technical discussion in these comments. For shame! Come on, people!

<comment><USER4> Correct, and these discussions have been happening forever and are always the same: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9683971](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9683971).

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> As much as people like to throw stones at Terry, TempleOS does some really interesting things. It really is impressive that he's built an entire operating system from the ground up from first principals. There are some novel concepts in there; I loved his integration of sprites into source code.

<comment><USER6> I don't think people (here at least) really throw stones very much, and those that do usually get downvoted or rebutted pretty mercilessly. Some past Terry Davis threads:

He gets posted to usesthis.com: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7776743](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7776743)

A 5-minute random code walkthrough: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8349910](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8349910)

The Temple Operating System: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6308017](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6308017)

Why Davis' TempleOS is better than Torvald's Linux: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8779821](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8779821)

The majority of people really seem to respect his technical achievements, and "TempleOS does a really interesting thing ____" isn't an uncommon comment.

<comment><USER7> His video contrasting TempleOS with Linux is really interesting. It's unfortunate that many of the people who watched it didn't understand the points he was trying to make or just couldn't get past his inflammatory language. TempleOS seems to address many of the deficiencies of Linux for desktop usage.

<comment><USER8> > TempleOS seems to address many of the deficiencies of Linux for desktop > usage.

What? Like networking and running concurrent programs? I guess I like my deficiencies....

<comment><USER9> Everyone likes functionality. But functionality comes at the price of complexity.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> It's crass that the comments on Terry's technical material always turn into a psychoanalysis roundtable, given he is a HN reader.

<comment><USER11> Especially because so many HN Commenters have little to no clue about serious mental illness.

<comment><USER12> Mental illness aside - he accomplished something that I can only dream of. I'm sure if I sat down, quit my job, and read hundreds of tutorials I could come out with some sort of OS. I'm not a fan of the whole religious aspect - <USER2> the core of the project is pretty amazing I think.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> I knew someone else who made a jit C compiler similar to this, but for 68K (also where the entire environment is in a single memory map). Functions could be compiled when called. The advantage is that the compiler could treat arguments as constants for further optimization.

It's impressive that he made his own optimizing compiler, even if it is not C standard. From the video it has at least constant folding, dead code elimination and jump optimization. It's interesting that the intermediate code is in the form of a double-linked list for easy editing.

I would suggest to try to make a compiler which uses SSA- it's pretty simple and allows more optimizations, particularly CSE. I worked with Bob Morgan at one point, and I suggest his book on compilers as an accessible resource. He would like your jump optimization outer loop: repeat while we're still making progress.

<comment><USER14> I've often thought about this idea. It could be as simple as `#pragma jit` before a function call. If you're about to call a function that chews on a big dataset for several seconds, it's probably worth the effort. In particular I'm thinking of hot loops with an `if` statement or function pointer / virtual call.

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> I always find his videos fascinating but this is way over my head. Can someone in the know please provide a bit of a breakdown of the design decisions he has taken and how they compare with other compilers?

</comment><comment><USER16> Very hard to follow his way of thinking but I am just shocked at the amount of work he has put into this. Just amazing !!!!

</comment><comment><USER17> Everyone here should download the ISO and give it a go in virtualbox. It's surprisingly painless and quick to boot, and has an interesting and helpful startup guide. Take the time to check it out, it is truly fascinating!

</comment><comment><USER18> I have followed Terry's endeavors throughout the years.

1\. Why do all the source and headers have a .Z at the end?

2\. I truly wish there was a way to help Terry share his gift. What he is capable of is truly a huge, huge accomplishment, especially for a single person.

Terry, if you read this. Thank you. Watching your videos makes me get in gear and read more..

</comment><comment><USER19> I see his work as a real testament to the power of the individual when given the ability to focus and freed from restriction to pursue their calling in life.

Not drawing any parallels here, but I am sure that there have been many 'Joan of Arc' and 'Moses' in history, and only a very tiny number of those received any recognition or praise. How many doubtlessly countless numbers were forgotten or plain ignored? Their lifes work and passions laid bare for all to see, only to be shuffled away when they weren't successful by others measurements.

Tl;dr I see Terry as a reminder to march to your own drummer and to support others to do the same; whether they win or lose.

<comment><USER11> > march to your own drummer

Do you think that's what people with severe mental illness are doing?

<comment><USER20> It is possible to recognise the creativity his opportunity to focus on doing his own thing has allowed him to express without intending it to downplay the challenges of his mental illness.

<comment><USER11> Sure, but Smushman's comment isn't doing that. It's naive and ignorant feel- good bullshit.

<comment><USER20> And how is it you know that? The comment on its own does not provide enough information to jump to that conclusion.

<comment><USER11> > the power of the individual when given the ability to focus and freed from > restriction to pursue their calling in life.

Most people with severe mental illness do not describe it as something that has freed them, nor given them focus, to pursue the one thing they really want to pursue.

There's a bunch of positive stuff about severe and enduring mental illness; and we need to protect people so that they can live the way they want to live; and we need to be careful to avoid the abuses of treatment that happened in the past (and still happen today); but romanticising a severe and enduring mental illness is fucking annoying.

This isn't his calling, it's his delusion's calling. and he's not freed from restriction - that's a fucking idiotic thing to say about someone who lives in relative poverty with severely limited options about where he lives and who with.

The near complete lack of understanding of severe mental illness, coupled with glib feel good platitudes, do real harm to many people.

<comment><USER3> I don't see that as saying that Terry is free to pursue his project _because of_ his schizophrenia. Rather, Terry _happens to be_ free to put a lot of time into TempleOS and the results are pretty amazing. Terry is _also_ schizophrenic, but this is not freeing.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Ugly architecture to blame for housing crisis - <AUTHOR> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcbjWGj3jBk&feature=youtu.be <comment><USER2> I think that rich countries are having their social benefits priced into houses.

Where I am (Canada), house prices in some major metro areas fairly closely follow what school district you are in. So we have "high quality public education" which you then pay for in mortgage interest and principal instead of tuition. This (mostly) still results in people getting what they pay for, but it also leads to strange distortions.

The more the world becomes globalized, the more people will start pricing the social benefits of a location into the cost of living, simply by going there and driving up demand.

Eventually a given government social program dependent will be commoditized to the extent that you can work in a high cost of living centre but with the exact same quality of life as you would in the equivalent low cost of living centre. Just with less zeros on your income and bills.

The video makes a great point about how people want a net benefit to the curb appeal of a given area, but it is also an issue of pricing things into housing that used to be priced into the products themselves.

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> The narrator on this video is Alain de Botton. It doesn't say so in the video nor the description on the youtube page. It's a shame really, since all his books are great reads.</comment>


Quants Think Like Amateurs in China's Wild Stock Market - <AUTHOR> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-05-15/quants-think-like-amateurs-in-the-world-s-wildest-stock-market <comment><USER2> Also because the Chinese government has direct control over the stock market, and can make arbitrary changes at any time. Makes things pretty difficult when the entire market is literally just a giant chop shop.

It amazes me that any Chinese investor would willingly invest in the market to be honest, but I suppose that's why alternative investments like housing/cryptocurrencies are so popular.

<comment><USER3> The question for a real investor in a stock market is, is it going up or down over a 10 year period or if it's a company the same thing applies in a period of 10 years is it going up or down. Outside of that in any stock market you are gambling.

<comment><USER2> Even if you take the long view, I'm not sure how much faith you can really put into the Chinese market. Authoritarian governments as shown by past history, don't have a great track record for long term stability unfortunately.

Who knows though, maybe the Chinese government will manage to make a smooth transition towards a more democratic system without the violent revolutions that previous incarnations have had to deal with respectively.

Now is probably a critical moment in determining whether such a future scenario is realistic, considering the slowing economic growth of China and the need to transition towards a service oriented rather than manufacturing based economy. Economic recession is usually one of the first steps towards civilian revolt in authoritarian regimes.

<comment><USER4> Most governments in history were authoritarian and many were stable for hundreds of years. With modern technology, I don't see why authoritarian governments are necessarily more vulnerable than democratic ones.

<comment> barry-cotter > Most governments in history were authoritarian and many were stable for > hundreds of years.

There are currently two state level organisations over 1,000 years old, Japan's Chrysanthemum Throne, aka the Imperial Household and the Holy See or Papacy. The only other state to break 1,000 years I'm aware of was the Most Serene Republic of Venice. State continuity is an extremely hard problem, and I don't see much evidence that monarchies were stable. Succession disputes and civil wars are really common in republics, monarchies, empires, everything. Democracy's virtue is in simulating a civil war by counting heads and facilitating an orderly and peaceful transfer of power between groups that detest each other. When the hate gets too much then you get a civil war.

Authoritarian governments have the problem that the Western bloc is implacably opposed to their existence and will take any opportunity to extinguish them. Look at what happened to Libya after Qaddafi cooperated and dismantled the chemical weapons programme and did that help him? Hell no. Hilary Clinton gloated over his death after she persuaded Obama to destroy the only Libya.

This is not the only time the US has opted to spread its values at the expense of countries that had no quarrel with it. The US sent the Flying Tigers to Burma well before Pearl Harbor, and knew perfectly well that the oil blockade of Japan was an existential threat to the Empire of Japan. Likewise the US got into WWI and WWII because it wanted to. The US was shipping aid and supplies to the U.K. The sibling of the Lusitania was hardly an unforeseen consequence of supporting one side in a war.

China is well aware of this, or at least the Politburo and the rest of the top level cadres in Zhongnanhai are. The West is inimical to their existence. Ditto the North Korean leadership. The US is totally untrustworthy as far as they're concerned.

More broadly apart from the Holy See and Chrysanthemum Throne the countries that have gone the longest with continuity of government and sovereignty are the USA and U.K. The US is due for another civil war, people certainly hate each other enough and the UK's claims to governmental continuity have a huge asterisk called the Glorious Revolution or Dutch invasion.

<comment><USER5> > There are currently two state level organisations over 1,000 years old, > Japan's Chrysanthemum Throne, aka the Imperial Household and the Holy See or > Papacy.

The Holy See hasn't actually been either stable or a state level organization continuously for the last thousand years.

<comment> barry-cotter When wasn't it? During the Avignon captivity it was at least as powerful as now. Between Italian unification and the Lateran Pact it had diplomats with the customary immunity, embassies and ability to make treaties. The Holy See has had rival claimants since 1,000 but the current pontiff derives in a direct line from that of 1,000 AD just as the current British government has a rock solid claim to continuity since the Glorious Revolution.

<comment><USER5> > When wasn't it?

Well, it didn't even become a "state level organization" until the temporal dominions of the papacy became separate from the Holy Roman Empire in 1177, so even if you ignore both times the papal states were disestablished, it doesn't reach 1000 years.

> The Holy See has had rival claimants since 1,000 but the current pontiff > derives in a direct line from that of 1,000 AD

Only in the sense that a convention later grew of describing a particular line through the period of two and then three competing lines of popes that were ended with a common replacement as "the" line of popes, but that's an after- the-fact rationalization, not actual continuity.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> [https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/300431.SZ/](https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/300431.SZ/)

A third tier media player software company with an antique main product when listed, reached a high of 327 rmb in three months, then the company started it's VR glasses business.

[https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/300104.SZ/](https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/300104.SZ/)

LeEco, founder absconded to the US, about to sink his FaradayFuture too.

[https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-04-30/kangmei-s...](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-04-30/kangmei- slumps-after-revising-2017-cash-holdings-by-4-4-billion)

Oops, 30 billion rmb profit in cash accounting error boys.

[https://www.google.com/search?q=600485.sh](https://www.google.com/search?q=600485.sh) Yes that guy who trumpeted to actually dig The Nicaraguan Canal. Trading suspended ever since December 2016, when a news report accuses its main business, telecom in Cambodia which rocked a 80%+ net profit margin, is a fraud. It seems no one dares to mess with this company right now, rumored to have deep military connections.

</comment><comment><USER7> If developing profitable trading approaches based on message board and social media sentiment, will it work outside of China in those markets where small investors and day traders dominate - penny stocks, certain cryptocurrencies, etc.?

<comment><USER8> Yes - in fact many people do this regularly...for instance, identifying and shorting pump and dumps (usually popular penny stocks).

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> My favourite part of this article:

"He became interested in the challenge in part because of some quirky moves in Chinese stocks in the wake of the 2016 U.S. presidential election."

"When the result became clear, a listed Chinese company whose name sounds like "Trump Wins Big'' in Mandarin surged, while a firm that sounds like "Aunt Hillary'' slumped."

<comment><USER10> i had to read that a couple of times to understand the implications, are people really that dumb?

<comment><USER11> Yes, and it's a worldwide phenomena. Embedded in this link is Thaler (A Nobel winner) using such an example as a counterexample to one view of the efficient markets hypothesis: [https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2017/10/09/2194613/thaler- the-cu...](https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2017/10/09/2194613/thaler-the-cuba- fund-and-the-emerging-markets-hypothesis-plus-a-roundup/)

tl;dr price for the "CUBA fund" spikes following Obama announcement of normalizing relations, despite the CUBA fund having nothing at all to do with CUBA.

<comment><USER12> The efficient markets hypothesis seems Really Fucking Dumb™ to me. Like, trivially nonsense.

<comment><USER13> The EMH isn't necessarily that every stock is perfectly priced. It's that it's not possible to reliably predict where prices will go next.

<comment><USER12> But isn't the hypothesis that it's not possible to predict _because_ it's perfectly priced already?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> To use the title of Dan Ariely's book: Predictably Irrational</comment>


Cold Calling 100 Prospects a Day: One Entrepreneur's Story - <AUTHOR> http://www.forbes.com/sites/neilkane/2014/10/05/cold-calling-100-prospects-a-day-one-entrepreneurs-story/

<comment><AUTHOR> Could you? Would you? Did you?

Curious to hear if anyone else has done something as "old-school" as this, given all the focus on growthhacking and more scalable customer acquisition methods.</comment>


Your professional half-life - <AUTHOR> http://13.7billionyearslater.net/2010/08/03/your-professional-half-life/

<comment><USER2> I'd say that getting out of web development for a few days, weeks, even months is not such a big deal. Being a rapid learner is a re-requisite for getting anywhere in a cutting edge field. So as long as your learning ability follows a Malthusian growth model you'll be just fine spacing out for a few months. Heck, you may come back with a different perspective on things.

<comment><USER3> I'd like to believe that's true. How about _perception_ , though? I've taken a year off now... am wondering how I'll be perceived when I start interviewing again.

<comment><USER4> Depends where you are interviewing. Established companies don't have such a fetish for bleeding-edge technology.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> The way it was explained to me:

When you are young, you are excited about what is cool/what is interesting/the latest technology. You usually lack experience.

After several years and/or several projects, you realize it's not about the technology - every project has the same issues/opportunities. It's all the same. Some projects may bring something new to learn but, really, unless you are working for Google or Facebook or a startup, they're all the same.

As you grow older and wiser and start to mentor the young 'uns who are excited about working on X technology, you realize that you might just not have as much enthusiasm. At that point, you may transition out to management and/or starting a family. And the cycle will continue...

</comment><comment><USER6> I've always thought that software is a young man's game, whereas law is an old man's game.

This is because when new legislation is introduced, the first thing that any discussion of it does is to consider what the law was 200 years ago. New laws are mostly tweaks on existing laws (including case law), and will be interpreted as such by the courts. Even entirely new laws are interpreted in terms of existing laws. Of course, there are some new laws and new cases to keep up to date with.

But compare this with programming, where most successful practitioners didn't have or need any idea of previous languages or approaches. Which is probably one of the reasons that software is reinvented every decade or so. Law is not.

<comment><USER7> That may be true of the works of creative genius that exist in isolated splendor sprung fresh from the brows of handsome and charming engineer-heros, gifting the world with the product of their talent. But the rest of us have to read the RFCs and build software that works with other software that is already out there.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> Looks like half-life is inversely proportional to pay.

</comment><comment><USER9> Sport people have short half-life.</comment>


Show HN: It's hard to make friends offline, so we built a solution - <AUTHOR> http://www.letsbeamigos.com/ <comment><USER2> Whenever I see a button that says "sign in with Facebook," I just close the tab immediately. Am I the only one who does this? What's wrong with just having me fill out a survey of my interests if that's what you want?

Facebook is the only account that I keep to myself and people who know me. My Twitter, LinkedIn, Quora, Github and all the other stuff I can't remember, all exist to connect me to people I've never met. I'd way rather use one of those than Facebook.

<comment><AUTHOR> Hey guys, we actually have a survey after the fb login for that reason (I have few interests on my FB profile). And we WONT write on your wall under any circumstances.

Lastly, for now wanted to dodge anonymous signups. Won't be much fun to set you up with people that are not real. Hope you give it a shot.

<comment><USER3> > _And we WONT write on your wall under any circumstances._

Being able to trust strangers is nice, but not needing to is even better.

<comment><USER4> If I recall correctly, apps must explicitly ask permission (above and beyond the login) and authorizaton which just gives access to your "basic information".

Oftentimes you can deny the post ability. You can't tell until you arrive at the screen, but if you don't click okay, nobody's posting anything on your wall.

<comment><USER5> Yeah, until Facebook quietly changes how that works and gives all sorts of new permissions to apps you've already authorized with.

That's the real problem here: Facebook has a history of wanting to expose as much personal information as possible, including exposing information that was previously not exposed without warning. I don't necessarily distrust the OP's business today, nor do I necessarily disagree with the permission settings I can set today. What I don't trust is Facebook's future changes to those permission settings, nor what the OP's business is going to do when/if it has more access to my information than it used to have.

<comment><USER6> You can remove the app. Its not permissions for life.

<comment><USER7> That does nothing to prevent the app from retaining the information they obtained using the Facebook API during the time they were authorized (yes it's against the TOS to do so, but it's completely unenforceable).

<comment><USER8> But the information they would retain would be the same information they'd have if you'd signed up with email and manually entered information.

<comment><USER5> That's not true at all. If I enter information manually, then the site has exactly the information I've chosen to give it, no more and no less, until I decide to provide more. That is most likely not the same information I've shared through Facebook. But if the site gathers information from my Facebook account, then it gets whatever Facebook chooses to give it; the choice is not under my control.

If Facebook had a history of strong privacy protection and strict opt-in policy to information sharing, this wouldn't be so bad. But since Facebook has the completely opposite history, including Zuck coming right out and saying that he would prefer all Facebook user info to be shared, I'm not going to trust Facebook to keep whatever I want private private.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Welcome to HN, where showing your work gets you a "fuck off", "scumbag", and "scum of the earth", all without an iota of positive feedback or constructive criticism!

What a brilliant community, indeed!

<comment><USER10> This is exactly what I was feeling. Hey, you have a cool idea, and you don't necessarily want to create an additional login account (which would add yet another security risk to each user)? Don't use facebook, because clearly NO ONE uses that </sarcasm>.

Really though, I think that the target market for ... social people... who want to have social gatherings... would likely be people on Facebook.

Just because HN in large hates Facebook for XYZ reasons, not all of which are unjustified, I really don't think it's fair to shout at the developers for choosing to use it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> FWIW in my own app, on iPhone, Facebook connect with _native_ dialog has a near-100% login rate. (The non-native dialog is much worse unfortunately.)

So, fuck the haters, Facebook connect is a very low-impact way to get users to sign up to your service, particularly if you assume in the long run that it will be deeply integrated with phones as it is on iOS. Yes, a few nerds will opt-out, but most of them will be pulled in eventually if your service turns out to be useful and trustworthy.

</comment><comment><USER12> I think its hard to make friends, because people only feel fulfilled when they are working. This is demonstrated by the fact all these billionaires are still working and they are not content to just be leisurely.

Therefore, the premise that you like baseball and I like baseball, so we should just hang out, will feel kind of pointless. That's why I don't think anyone has really nailed this market.

I think a better take on this would be, you want to publish a comic book, and I want to publish a comic book, so we should work on our projects and hang out. Or you want to run a 5K and I want to run a 5K so lets meetup and practice this together.

<comment><AUTHOR> You nailed it, this is where we are headed. Love to chat more about how you think we can get there.

<comment><USER12> I think something like, "I am going to be working on my comic from 7-9 at this coffee shop, broadcast this "ad" to people like comics that have the following characteristics [male | female | doesn't matter], politics [ x,y,doesn't matter]"

You sometimes could have an open ended invite, and sometimes you would have to have both parties agree to meeting before hand, like in the case of restaurant reservations.

<comment><AUTHOR> I think that open ended invitations leave too much room for cancellation / a poor experience. But, perhaps other people might feel this is not an issue. Any feedback?

<comment><USER12> Depends on the activity. For example, I'm working on my novel at the coffeeshop. That is a good open ended activity. If no one shows up while I work on my novel, well that's fine, because I still got some work done.

But running around the lake is not an open ended activity, because I don't want to wait around for people to show up.

Also add a button, "Leaving for the activity now", or "I'm here at X" would be helpful.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> Do yourself a favor and ignore the comments here screaming for alternative login options. Look at the data and see what the conversion rate is for people, and only change it if the conversion rate is below what you consider acceptable. (Filtering out "Referer: news.ycombinator.org" of course.)

Most people here complaining about Facebook Connect are basically ignorant as to what it actually allows you to do, and are also in the minority of people who have not populated their Facebook profile with interests.

</comment><comment><USER13> 1st: the Facebook only login is a HUGE turnoff for many people.

2nd: Videos need HTML5 support.

If the Facebook issue is that you are wanting real people, then maybe you could create a "confidence" score for people to identify their trustworthiness, or maybe some kind of ratings system. Confirming a phone number or school email would also be a good alternative to the facebook requirement.

<comment><USER14> > Facebook only login is a HUGE turnoff for many people.

... on hacker news. And in the rest of the populace? Not so sure.

<comment><USER15> I should really keep these links handy, but real-world user testing generally shows a pretty strong aversion to Facebook Connect. Here's at least one paper that studied informed consent with Facebook auth: <http://www.guanotronic.com/~serge/papers/chi13a.pdf>

<comment><USER14> Interesting, but the 3 web sites they used are all news web sites. I don't mind using FB connect, but for a site like that, that I read without logging in? No way.

I think more research is needed.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> I really you might be interested in 'Minimal Viable Product', but really, I think this is below Viable.

Why ask for my Facebook if you are then going to ask where I love, and my interests, afterwards?

Do you realise how limiting it seems to ask if I live in:

        Palo Alto, CA
        San Franciso, CA
        Somewhere else

<comment><USER17> Yeah, feels like it's targeting the people who need this service least. Bay area is geek central, or so it's reputation suggests. I just moved to Albuquerque, which is beautiful and scenic and has no existing nerd scene. A tool like this would be incredible for finding or building one, though.

I don't mean to be the "but what about _my_ edge case" guy, but it really does seem like your target audience is going to be denser when you get into cities that don't have thoroughly saturated tech scenes already.

p.s. If there are any HN types in the ABQ/Santa Fe area, please reply and we can grab lunch sometime.

<comment><USER18> > Yeah, feels like it's targeting the people who need this service least. Bay > area is geek central, or so it's reputation suggests

Just because there are lots of similarly-minded people in the same area as you doesn't mean it's easy to make friends with them. A lot of people relocated to the bay area every month, a service like this would be great for them.

Certainly falls under the category of "solving problems of SV 20 somethings" though :P

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> This is nothing against you, but I don't trust websites that request personal info but where it is unclear who is behind.

© Let's Be Amigos 2013

What is Let's Be Amigos? Who is behind? A company or a person? Please give some more details.

</comment><comment><USER20> So I have done plenty of A/B testing with Facebook login and I can tell you one thing: having just Facebook login converts multiple times better than having either email sign up or both. The quality of signups are also much better. Sure, you lose out on the hackers but they're a minority and from reading this thread a pretty rude crowd as well.

<comment><USER21> The hackers are an efficient way to advertise a product for free. They are continually online and like to go from website to website and talk about stuff they just learned about.

<comment><USER22> Not to mention they will tell their friends and family constantly about the cool new thing they found. Also when people consider a new service who do they ask? Usually the hacker in the social group/family

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> Don't offer one way to log in. At least give the standard Facebook/Twitter choice.

It doesn't make any sense to have a site to help people be more social but then only offer it to people who are social...

<comment><AUTHOR> Coming soon...

</comment></comment><comment><USER24> Facebook required so you know my interests? Facebook doesn't know my interests.

Or...unfortunately maybe facebook does know my interests but not because I've deliberately divulged them. In any case, it would be much better to ask me directly.

For friend-making through common interests I use meetup.com

<comment><AUTHOR> Has it worked well for you? Do you like going to activities already scheduled or do you think there is value in having people found for specifically you?

<comment><USER25> I think the big advantage of meetup is a lower "creepy factor". If I'm going to a scheduled, planned event to do something specific then that has natural boundaries - and then often a subset will go to the pub afterwards where things get a bit more informal, but you're under no pressure if you don't want to. I do like this idea because making new friends is hard, but I'm worried meeting people who have been "matched" with me would turn awkward.

<comment><AUTHOR> Love to get your thoughts on our about page. Does this make it seem less creepy? We want to de-creepyify this as much as possible!

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> What if you don't keep track of your interests on Facebook? Or you don't have one, or want to use your FB account? No other option?

<comment><AUTHOR> So at this point, FB is a huge help to help gauge your interests. We do also let you enter a few activities you like to do after signup.

Lastly, for now wanted to dodge anonymous signups. Won't be much fun to set you up with people that are not real.

</comment></comment><comment><USER27> In defense of the Facebook sign up, how about issues of safety? Meeting a stranger online can be risky. Forcing signup via Facebook helps provide data that users can use to perform a due diligence on the strangers they might be meeting. It helps hold people accountable if they do decide to do something malicious offline. Perhaps LinkedIn might be better, but I don't see a problem with utilizing some sort of identity related social sign up for this idea.

</comment><comment><USER28> I'm not as opposed to the Facebook signin thing as a lot of people here seem to be, in that I don't consider Facebook "private". My default assumption is "if it's actually private, it doesn't get posted on Facebook". IOW, Facebook is mostly just a big online Rolodex to me.

BUT... I am opposed to having only Facebook login, just because it's not an open standard, and it isn't part of the Open Web. I'd argue for supporting, at a minimum, OpenID as an alternative.

</comment><comment><USER29> I really like the concept, I was thinking on something like this a while ago, but it was around the concept of going out to dinner with someone, sometimes you want to try a new restaurant but your friends are maybe busy or they don't fancy the food, even though you could go on your own, eating alone is not always fun.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks, we think dinner is a good idea but so are other activities (playing a sport, computer game, or whatever)

</comment></comment><comment><USER30> This is a great idea, however probably the 5th time this has been on Hackernews this year. Again, there are 100 startups all trying the same thing and it just doesn't work, because you have incredibly high critical mass and no marketing channel.

Examples: Spontacts, Woofound, Matewire, Activepepper

Hope that helped.

</comment><comment><USER31> It's not that I am against signing up with Facebook, it's just that every service I've used with a FB login claims to help make oneself more social; however, that is hardly ever the case.

As for wanting to meet people in my area with similar interests, I'll stick to using Meetup.

Additionally, here is some advice from someone who runs their own Meetup group. My coffee and conversation group is over a month old and has over 50 members. Only about 20% sign up for a Meetup and about 75% actually show. These are rough estimates, but from people I talk to that host events, they have similar results. I think you'll find that once you set up these "meets" with 4 people, usually not all 4 will show up. I guess if you had them prepay, they would be more inclined to...

but anyway, good luck!

</comment><comment><USER32> Hello!

I like the idea! I hope this is constructive.

I signed up with facebook.

The next page asked me what my location was. I thought that was a bit odd, because what's the point of giving you access to all my FB stuff? So, I drop down the thingy and there are 2 towns, both in California. Well, it's brand new so I kind of expected that. But I have no idea how to enter my location. Do I just put my town name? Or town name, county? Or town name, UK? Or what? So, I guess at town and UK.

The next three boxes ask me for some things I've done recently. Eh, I really don't do much. It might be worth giving people a grid of ideas as suggestions?

<comment><AUTHOR> Hi Dan,

Well one issue is that you can work in one city and live in another. That may not be reflected in Facebook. We didn't think about town vs. county vs. city.

Suggestions are a great idea. Thanks.

</comment></comment><comment><USER33> I filled out all the info, clicked submit, and then it just took me back to the homepage. :( Looks interesting though. I was just talking to my wife about this problem the other day.

<comment><AUTHOR> hmm small glitch we are fixing, it should say:

Thanks our matchmakers and algorithms are hard at work to find the perfect matches for you.

We will email you soon.

<comment><AUTHOR> We should have just fixed this, can someone try and let us know?

<comment><USER34> Worked for me just now.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER35> > _REAL-LIFE FRIENDS, NOT FACEBOOK FRIENDS OR LINKEDIN CONNECTIONS._

..."GET STARTED WITH FACEBOOK" button on the same page.

Do you not see the irony in your tagline?

<comment><USER31> My thoughts exactly.

<comment><AUTHOR> Well we aren't introducing you to your Facebook friends so I'm not sure I see it.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> I went through the signup process. Was pretty fast and easy. A few suggestions:

\- I live in Redwood City, CA. Would be nice if this autocompleted.

\- Include more suggestions for the types of things to include in things I've done in the last month.

\- You should include the "How It Works" info on the landing page after I finish.

\- There should be other ways for me to find people, I shouldn't have to rely upon algorithms to do all the work.

</comment><comment><USER36> On a more positive note:

I'm lovin the name, it made me laugh so much. Great idea too. I move around a lot so am always looking for ways to build a solid network of new friends.

If you have a vision, pursue it with relentless ambition. Don't let these criticisms put you off.

</comment><comment><USER37> Clicking the "Get started with Facebook" quickly opens and then closes a popup. I'm guessing this is the "authenticate with your account" popup, but it closes too quickly to even do anything.

EDIT: Thanks for the support, this issue was quickly fixed.

<comment><USER38> Similar problem for me, except it doesn't even open the popup. The page just scrolls to the top and a # gets appended to the URL. Looks like some Javescript listener is failing to fire.

I'm using Safari 6 on Mac OS 10.8 if that helps.

<comment><AUTHOR> Think we fixed this too, can you try again?

<comment><USER38> It's still not working for me. I even tried emptying cache, but no luck.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER39> Hey njoglekar - your window-fixed "Contact Us" bug is covering up your copyright in the bottom right. And the white text shadow on your main headline and some buttons is rendering poorly in Chrome 27 on a MBPr.

</comment><comment><USER40> I want this but anonymous. I like meetup but its the same drag, digital me showing up to an event feeling akward. I'd use the digital equivalent of picking up a flyer from a coffeeshop.

</comment><comment><USER41> I don't have a facebook. I guess this site isn't for people like me.

</comment><comment><USER42> The 'new to the area' headline has a white text shadow on the already white text that makes the content blurry and hard to read. You probably want to turn off the text shadow there.

</comment><comment><USER43> We've created one like that in the past (strangers for dinner). Similar ideas - use Facebook info to matchmake for dinner parties.

The project failed. I am quite curious to see how this one goes

</comment><comment><USER44> You need to move that Facebook button much higher on the page. I had to scroll to see it, and I have a larger than average screen.

</comment><comment><USER45> What does this offer that Meetup.com doesn't?

<comment><AUTHOR> Our goal is to actually find people that we think would be a good match for you. With meetup.com you are signing up for an activity. Here we are finding people that you should be friends with and setting up an activity. Like a friend matchmaker.

<comment><USER46> Every friendship I've ever established has been based on some activity: sharing an office, playing sports, watching a movie, etc. And I don't think I'm unique in this respect.

Meeting a person solely for the person of selecting him or her sounds very specific to dating.

I think your project is interesting and has a lot of potential — I'm just pointing out that, by downplaying activities, you may be expecting a type of socializing that's unnatural to many people, especially if you hope to differentiate yourself from dating sites.

<comment><AUTHOR> We totally agree. When we make a match of 4 people we send them on an activity. Perhaps we need to make that clearer in the messaging - where would you like us to say something like that?

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER47> Do most people actually like things that are useful? Most of my friends "like" stuff like Starbucks and Wal-Mart.

</comment><comment><USER48> Sounds like At The Pool -- <http://atthepool.com>

</comment><comment><USER49> I immediately thought about the old sega game called samba de amigo. Cool name.

</comment><comment><USER50> Don't mind all the negative comments. The idea and website are cool!

</comment><comment><USER51> Can't I just make friends on Facebook? This is silly.

</comment><comment><USER52> Who the hell is igos?

My level of jokes will probably never increase.

</comment><comment><USER53> So a vanilla version of bangwithfriends?

</comment><comment><USER54> Can you add Seattle, WA as a city?

<comment><AUTHOR> We are planning the first few groups in the bay area but we have gotten so many inquiries from Seattle that we can organize something soon

</comment></comment><comment><USER55> Let's beam! ...igos

</comment><comment><USER56> I'm from Northern Europe and the problem with making friends is that you have to have an _excuse_ to make friends - there has to be a pretense. Sure, a lot of sports, volunteer work, hobbies and so on and so forth emphasize that you will get to socialize, but you don't get away from the fact that you have to have _some_ kind of pretext to meet new people.

<comment><USER57> How is that a problem? Go out and do something.

<comment><USER56> It is a problem because you necessarily need to take the whole pretext as well - which is fine if you really like that pretext, less so if you don't. Maybe someone just wanted to meet new people and so she got a volunteer job for some organization. Now she has the job and has made some friends, but the job is weighing her down, because it turns out that she didn't care for that job in itself. "But", you say, "she could just find something she likes", but that might not be so easy. In her case, she needed to commit to a job, and it is often something of an investment like that when it comes to these pretexts - it's not merely a question of "casually drop by that thing I do whenever I feel like it, but I've committed to noone about doing with any regularity".

Hopefully she can quit her job and still maintain her friendships - but people also tend to compartmentalize, and without something like a common job, there isn't necessarily a compartment for her anymore.

I am _not_ talking about merely needing to _do_ something together to meet new people. I'm not talking about going down to the court and asking random people to shoot some hoops, and basketball being the pretext. I'm talking about "we need to work together or have met in some context where it was clear that we had stuff to do other than make friends with each other". There might not need to be a pretext after a friendship is established, but you sometimes need to get over that hurdle.

<comment><USER57> The premise of this and every tool like it is to bring people together with common interests. If you are actually interested in something, go do it and you'll meet people with that interest. It's far more important to do something than it is to express your interest on some friend meeting site, because people who are actually interested out pursuing their interest. You can also participate in an online community around the interest.

Saying you like hiking and snowboarding on a friend meeting site will never get you anywhere. Go to the mountain. Join the Mountaineers.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER58> AIMED AT PEOPLE LOOKING TO MEET OTHER REAL ACTUAL HUMANS OFFLINE

[Scumbag LetsBeAmigos]

PRESUMES THE USER HAS A FACEBOOK ACCOUNT

<comment><USER38> I see this comment every time somebody posts a social product on HN, and I'm not sure why. It adds no value to the discussion, and isn't even good feedback. The number of people looking to socialize but don't have a FB account is small enough that requiring FB for an MVP is perfectly reasonable. If the platform takes off, the OP can add their own login system as well.

By refusing to have a Facebook account, you have willingly chosen to avoid a large portion of the web's social layer. Don't complain when you can't use a social product then.

<comment><USER59> It's not that we don't have a facebook account, but rather that we don't want to have another app tangled in with all of our facebook data.

<comment><USER38> That is a different concern, and is expressed in the current top comment (<https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5781522>), which I upvoted. The comment that I replied to only bemoaned the assumption that they have a FB account. I think that is a perfectly reasonable assumption. Now, whether the product provides enough value for me to want to give them my Facebook details is a different question.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


The Problem with Banning Plastic Bags - <AUTHOR> https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2019/04/09/711181385/are-plastic-bag-bans-garbage <comment><USER2> > Why didn't policymakers foresee that bag bans could drive up trash bag > sales? Policies typically miss the mark because policymakers either do not > understand people's current behavior or fail to anticipate how people will > respond in a completely new situation.

I don't know, it seems pretty obvious to me. I've only once seen a bathroom trash bin without a grocery bag lining.

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> The title of the post came from the related podcast:

[https://www.npr.org/2019/05/08/721542495/the-problem-with- ba...](https://www.npr.org/2019/05/08/721542495/the-problem-with-banning- plastic-bags)

The title of the linked article felt click baity.</comment>