US indictments of piracy group members throw top-tier piracy world into chaos - <AUTHOR> https://torrentfreak.com/us-indictments-and-raids-of-piracy-group-members-in-the-scene-throw-top-tier-piracy-world-into-chaos-200826/ <comment><USER2> I'm concerned our justice systems is expending enormous resources investigating and prosecuting these cases as felony crimes on behalf of the MPAA and RIAA lobbies (which have a revolving door of former fed prosecutors as employees/lobbyists). The cases are more properly pursued in civil court where the pirates should be sued for the damages they cause (not agreeing with MPAA's damage assessment, that's for the judge/jury).

Mis-using international racketeering laws and cooperation agreements between agencies to pursue online software pirates is not what these systems were created for. Another example is Kim Dotcom. He may indeed be liable for significant damages (I don't know) but the MPAA designed their attack knowing that the prosecution itself would inflict massive punishment (ending the company, incarcerating or confining the execs) before it ever got to court. It's a clear abuse of the global justice system and a waste of its resources.

And all of that is before we even get to the moral and ethical debate about the true damages from purely electronic, not-for-profit media piracy clubs. Studies have shown that frequent pirated media downloaders are among the relevant industry's best, highest-spending customers. And it's also been shown that the majority of users will pay reasonable prices for convenient media access via subscription or purchase (Netflix, Spotify, ITunes, etc). Despite "crying poor", the music industry is now back to making more than it ever did in the era of $18 CDs, with more (and happier) customers.

<comment><USER3> Dotcom's company's whole purpose was to make money facilitating movie piracy, under the guise of being an innocent file storage and sharing company. Their internal processes and procedures were designed to make it appear that they took down pirated material when informed of its existence while actually making sure it was still there and accessible via other links that the copyright owner had not yet discovered. They actually reprimanded employees if they actually took something down for real.

Go find the court papers for the indictment. They include a bunch of internal emails from Dotcom and other top executives that show how the place actually worked.

<comment><USER4> >Go find the court papers for the indictment.

No i dont think i will. onus probandi, you'll need to cite your sources if you want anyone to take this seriously im afraid.

Dotcom was raided in new zealand with a guns out swat style team of tactical commandos and helicopters for what amounted to a civil court issue in his own county. his servers were illegally seized, his assets frozen, and then he was railroaded to the US and told to defend himself penniless despite overwhelming domestic controversy which inevitably led to political fallout for leaders in new zealand.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Dotcom](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Dotcom)

<comment><USER5> > and then he was railroaded to the US

I agree that the treatment of Dotcom by the US is, essentially, legalized international extortion and the NZ government should have put a stop on it a long time ago... but he is still in NZ.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> "Bridi, 50, was arrested on Sunday in Cyprus on an INTERPOL Red Notice. Correa, 36, was arrested yesterday in Olathe, Kansas, where he will appear in federal court. Ahmad, 39, was not arrested and is still at large."

An INTERPOL Red Notice! You'd think these are terrorists, human traffickers or drug lords. Nope, they share films before the films are supposed to come out.

I understand that one should not try to profit from piracy. I also understand that the people who are orchestrating the operations that lead to films being leaked ahead of time should indeed be stopped, but isn't this all a bit overly dramatic, when there are real problems to be dealt with in the world?

<comment><USER7> It makes perfect sense when you realise that law enforcement's historical and primary goal, over and above protection of us, is the protection of capital.

<comment><USER8> Isn't that caused mainly by lobbying and so? Some context. Generally speaking money in practice means power just because it allows lobbying and hiring good lawyers. And power basically is ability to have someone else solving one's problems.

<comment><USER9> "Lobbying" just means presenting your position on an issue. Money can help with making a persuasive presentation, to a point, but lobbying _per se_ is never the _cause_ of the problem. You can blame that on the people with way too much power who listen to the lobbyists and do as they ask—instead of actually doing their jobs and representing the interests of _all_ their constituents.

<comment><USER10> This is an extremely linear way of looking at public corruption.

It's all well and good to say that politicians should act morally, but if you don't do what you're told, you won't get the money, and you won't keep the job. You'll be replaced by somebody who does what they're told. We're filtering for trash.

It's weird that you're even combining this with a _defense of cash payments to politicians from special interests._ You characterize bad governance strictly as a moral failure, but defend bribes as an mostly irrelevant rhetorical addition to the persuasive presentation of one's position.

<comment><USER9> > … if you don't do what you're told … you won't keep the job.

Whether you keep your job is determined by who your constituents vote for, not by lobbyists. Perhaps voters are sometimes too easily swayed by campaign spending, but that's a separate issue from lobbying.

> It's weird that you're even combining this with a _defense of cash payments > to politicians from special interests_.

You misread. Spending more on your presentation can make it more persuasive because (up to a point, as I said) the end result is better researched and more polished in general compared to what can be produced on a shoestring budget. I was not suggesting that lobbyists ought to bolster their arguments with cash payments to politicians. Frankly I don't really care whether bribes are exchanged so long as the end result serves the constituents as a whole and not just the lobbyists. Accepting a bribe to advance lobbyists' interests at the expense of one's constituents would be an obvious example of corruption. As would doing the same out of personal preference without any exchange of favors.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> 19 years ago, in the immediate aftermath of the 9/11 attacks, the then- Attorney General appeared before the media to proudly announce the conclusion of the largest operation in DoJ history.

It was the destruction of a warez group.

In the lead-up to the 9/11 attacks, the most important thing on the DoJ agenda was not to follow up on any of the numerous intelligence leads warning that Islamist terrorists were planning to ram multiple airliners into multiple buildings, but rather to shut down an organization whose chosen line of activity has never been demonstrated to harm anyone.

Putting the factually contraindicated _feeling_ of the software publishing cartels that they're somehow losing money above the actual lives of actual people is a very f'ed up choice of priorities.

<comment><USER12> This feels like one of those "mind blowing" factoids. I mean, nobody had 9/11 on their calendars (aside from literally, I guess). I suppose you _could_ argue that the U.S. should have gotten obssessively involved with the middle east before 9/11 ever happened, but I personally think that's a nutcase position.

<comment><USER12> And let's address this counterargument: "Regardless of 9/11, why wasn't the DOJ doing literally anything else?"

I mean, the DOJ is a department. I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure it's not _just_ a single boardroom stocked with sneering capitalists plotting to get back at software pirates.

Don't get me wrong, it's a pretty big department, I don't doubt that this evil boardroom probably actually exists in some capacity. I just also happen to think that is... kind of normal? Would you prefer if the DOJ didn't enforce laws? It seems like putting the cart before the horse when one criticizes the executive for executing instead of criticizing the law itself.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Wow, that's a whole lot of work put into this, and I don't understand why... What do these scene members have to gain?

If anything, they're doing the media companies a service, free viral campaigns. Without pirated content, a lot of people would never hear or care about their movies, TV shows, music. If they can't afford it, they won't buy it anyway.

Microsoft and Adobe seem to have realized this, and now they're making things accessible to most people, so many ex-pirates used to their products are buying them. Not so for the media companies. Why does Netflix USA/UK/etc have different content? Why do games have region locks and ridiculous DRM?

All for the risk of being accused of fraud, causing "massive losses", and prison time. I guess sticking it to the MAFIAA feels nice, but is it worth the risk?

<comment><USER14> Yep, the loss to these companies is not the price of the movie. It is not the tens of millions of dollars quoted. If you pirate a movie, the person buying it is rarely someone who would pay full price. I would be surprised if the actual loss was anywhere near the amount it cost to run the investigation.

Also, there really isn't a massive amount of sophistication when it comes to distribution. Most of the media business still feels stuck in the 90s, definitely changing but still "business as usual" (for example, the English Premier League...probably the most valuable sports league in the world, same distribution since inception in the early 90s) thinking whilst the sand is shifting beneath their feet (if you look at the late teen-early twenties demo, much of the media business is already irrelevant). But yeah: spend your time chasing down people for a few hundred thousand bucks, that will work.

<comment><USER15> Yeah, you are basically forced to pirate movies if you want it in good streaming quality.

Most of the 4K HDR movies on Netflix are just available as 1080p SDR even with a 4K subscription, to get 4K HDR Atmos quality streaming you gotta pirate them. It's so damn dumb.

<comment><USER16> Not against pirating in the least bit but you can't say you _have_ to pirate to get the best 4K it's just easier and cheaper. Disregarding the not available in my region argument. The Blu-Ray is still available for purchase in most regions.

The people in the article were not ripping streaming services they were ripping unreleased DVDs and Blu-Rays.

<comment><USER15> Blu-Ray is not an option, I'm talking about streaming here.

<comment><USER16> There are many 4K rental options available but at $6.99 or so a pop means pirating is cheaper and easier once again. Cross platform sharing of rentals or digital purchases is crap, pirating is again easier.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> Would be interesting if our justice system spent as much effort on white collar crime, insider trading, financial misengineering, price fixing, etc.

<comment><USER18> Isn't this an example of "white collar" crime albeit perhaps a low level one?

<comment><USER19> Kind of - technically - but realistically no. The government is treating it more akin to theft than copyright infringement.

If an artist steals another's work and makes some money off of it, the federal government isn't going to step in and help. It'd be up to the artist (or copyright holder) to sue for damages. Assuming the case is clear, the artist would get money from the offender. The offender rarely goes to jail. If the offender instead stole the art from the artist's home, then they might get criminal charges.

<comment><USER20> I don't get what you mean when you say "technically no", since you pretty much made the case for the point.

The govt is accusing them of fraud (a kind of theft) in how they acquired the movies initially. This is indeed a white collar crime.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> Thank you torrent freak for putting the legal documents directly linked at the bottom. I'm not sure why some news outlets don't do this.

<comment><USER22> Ironic that a site called 'Torrentfreak' is more reliable than most news sources.

<comment><USER23> This comment pops up now and again, but they are _the_ single biggest news site for piracy and filesharing related things. I've been reading them since they started (I even have a T-Shirt) and they turned from a small-ish blog to a professional news site.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> SAPRKS is a huge loss. All of the groups that were named were quite prolific and released exceptionally high-quality files, but SPARKS especially.

Just goes to show how utterly broken and cross-contaminated the copyright and justice systems are. These groups should be lauded as heroes, not hunted down like criminals.

<comment><USER25> > All of the groups that were named were quite prolific

Anecdotal, but: I've certainly heard of SPARKS, but literally never heard of GECKOS, DRONES, ROVERS or SPLINTERS.

</comment></comment><comment><USER26> There is only one reason that I've ever had to use bittorrent. It turns out that some musicals are not available through streaming because the copyright assignment wasn't set up correctly and nobody has been able to come to an agreement on how to split the revenue.

Movies from _My Fair Lady_ to _Bullets Over Broadway_ are affected. You can go onto Netflix, Amazon, and so on, and none can let you watch. They can only ship you a DVD.

After literally failing to find anyone who could take my money, I went to bittorrent. (And had to VPN to pretend not to be in the USA.)

</comment><comment><USER10> Leaking pre-release movies is just a dangerous thing to do, and even a hypothetical producer/distributor's organization with the weakest stance on piracy one could imagine would go after them. Obtaining copies of unreleased media involves a direct attack to compromise people connected to a company. Even from my anti-copyright position, it's exactly the same as infiltrating a company to find out trade secrets or things that may influence future stock movements.

And there's no doubt it is damaging. So many movies are overbudgeted garbage, and are going to recoup as much as they are going to recoup during their first weekend, before the word gets out that the movie is terrible. All the marketing (which as a rule of thumb costs as much as the film) is focused on that weekend, including getting friendly reviews published, or deciding on a strategy of keeping the film from reviewers altogether. A credible rumor getting around a week before the release that the movie is crap means $10s of millions in losses, and layoffs.

I don't believe in copyright, but this is getting employees of a company (or its contractors, or those who have signed agreements with it in order to get screeners) to steal from the company. This is good when it is internal whistleblowing on crime or corruption, even better when it is government and the only reason for secrecy is to avoid embarrassment or accountability. There's very little detectable public good in exposing an X-Men movie a week before it hits the theaters.

<comment><USER27> As per your 2nd paragraph, the public good is that a lot of people might be saved from spending money to see a crap movie.

</comment></comment><comment><USER28> The justice system is complete crap, the US government doesn't have the ability to deal with piracy because it is international.

This doesn't work the way people think it does, there is literally no justice involved. The CIA is used to using movies and television as a pathway for manipulating the American population. There is a very long history of this happening and the people they use (yes use) to do this aren't making the revenues they are used to making.

As a result they are resorting to ugly tactics like taking over companies to play psychological games with people in online piracy and gaslighting people who run piracy servers. Several people who run piracy sites have been gaslit to the point of suggestibility and that usually ends in the person committing suicide or dying in strange ways. Deimos (the founder of demonoid) and Aaron Swartz were targets of this kind of treatment and almost none of the people who know them are aware of this because it is all psychological.

The way this is handled in reality is brutal psychological operations (triggering schizophrenia, learned dependency, triggering PTSD, gaslighting, etc), never believe anything you hear about the American government prosecuting crimes like online piracy, it is not handled in the courts. When you see someone who was perfectly normal and has their life fall apart out of nowhere until they are worn down physically or psychologically it is almost always the US government in one form or another. Sometimes it is intentional and sometimes it is unintentional (i.e. some part of the government gets tricked into running a psychological operation on someone), this isn't conspiracy it is being done in broad daylight everyday all over the country because it only has meaning to the person being targeted.

<comment> dane-pgp > it is being done in broad daylight everyday all over the country because it > only has meaning to the person being targeted.

I'm guessing you also believe that "gang stalking" is a thing:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalking#False_claims_of_stalk...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalking#False_claims_of_stalking,_%22gang_stalking%22_and_delusions_of_persecution)

<comment><USER29> Didn't eBay execs gang stalk a journalist? I'm not saying your point is invalid and I'm not validating gp, but I'm sure evidential gang stalking can exist outside of delusion.

<comment> dane-pgp That's a fair point about the eBay employees[1]. I think that the "gang stalking" theory becomes delusional when the supposed target is someone who isn't a threat to a multi-billion dollar company (or government), and when the supposed target claims that their harassers are using mind control and other pseudo-scientific means.

[1] [https://www.theverge.com/2020/6/15/21291666/ebay- employees-a...](https://www.theverge.com/2020/6/15/21291666/ebay-employees- arrested-journalist-harassment)

<comment><USER28> You're delusional if you think individual people aren't threats to governments of multi-billion dollar corporations.

There are people with information that no one wants leaked because the information is incriminating without proper context or someone may have made a massive mistake and not known what the consequences were at the time. There are people all over the place that have to make decisions where both choices might be illegal.

There are powerful CEOs and politicians who are afraid of being outed for not being what they say they are. Some of them are simply paranoid that they will be outed as incompetent. You'd be shocked at how many CEOs are terrified of people finding out they just got lucky and applied for the right jobs at the right times. They walk around in complete and total fear that someone will find out they don't know a single thing about how their company is run or that they are banging half the people in their company.

There are startups that are essentially cults and the founders use cult tactics in order to keep an entourage of employees who are loyal to the point that they will sacrifice their dignity and personal safety for the company. If you don't believe in the founder and the company they purge you because they are afraid someone is going to figure out their business may border on illegality. These guys do the same thing, their employees run around harassing anyone who doesn't believe in their company and the founder.

This happens all the time.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER30> Vast majority of comments here are hilarious. Piracy is a crime, deal with it. You don't have a right to content made for a profit without paying for it. If you don't agree with the price or the distribution method, don't consume the content, problem solved.

The argument that resources should be spent on "real crime" is equally silly. These organizations can and do put immense resources into all other forms of crime. They shouldn't choose to ignore one class of it because it's personally convenient to label it "harmless".

I'd suggest if you find yourself defending pirates that you actually go and create something worth pirating and see how you feel.

<comment><USER31> A huge number of the people on this site, myself included, already voluntarily donate huge amounts of time and money to free and open source software and hardware- they are already choosing to give away for free what others might otherwise pirate.

No one is disputing that piracy is a crime. They are pointing out the difference between the fact of what is, and their opinion of what ought be.

<comment><USER32> > No one is disputing that piracy is a crime.

Then why can I scroll up the page and find multiple instances of people saying it isn't?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER33> Is this anything other than neo-colonialism? How can the power of the US copyright lobby extend quite so completely into Europe. Imagine Norway wanted a bunch of US kids arrested due to their, or their lobbyists, pet peeve.

I used to be passive about it now I am anti-copyright, that has been the effect of the overreach by the copyright lobby, they have hardened me against them.

</comment><comment><USER34> Absolutely ridiculous to spend so much time and effort prosecuting crimes that have, at most, a marginal effect on the bottom lines of AAA film studios. [1]

[1]: [https://juliareda.eu/2017/09/secret-copyright- infringement-s...](https://juliareda.eu/2017/09/secret-copyright-infringement- study/) (check the linked pdf for the full study)

</comment><comment><USER35> Are these scandinavian countries cooperating with the U.S. media mafia on this? How did they get names and locations?

<comment><USER23> Most certainly. As would probably every other country in Europe. You should know that media piracy is on the same level as terrorism.

<comment><USER36> Judging from the terms some pirates are sentenced to, I'd say the legal system considers piracy to be much worse.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER37> To be honest, I don't feel bad for these people at all. Film studios, the MPAA, RIAA, etc. are pretty scummy, but the overwhelming majority of pirates are there to get the latest Disney / Marvel movie without having to pay. And these groups are serving that interest.

I'm sure there will be plenty of comments here calling out ethical gray areas or valid cases for torrenting a movie - those no longer for sale, etc. But you're kidding yourself if you think this is the motivation behind most illegal downloads.

At the end of the day, these studios are spending enormous sums of money to produce content and they deserve the copyright and distribution rights that are being egregiously violated. Unless you have a good reason, you should be paying it own/watch it and the government is in the right for enforcing it.

</comment><comment><USER38> Is there substantial "no IP whatsoever" constituency somewhere? Is there a movement or party advocating this? Are there jurisdictions with essentially this framework in place?

I'm curious to see what it looks like.

I have trouble imagining the internet tolerating any other configuration 100 years from now.

<comment><USER39> If we ever colonize Mars, it might become one for a little stretch of time. Just like America was at the beginning, China not long ago, etc.

<comment><USER40> Kim Stanley Robinson's Mars Trilogy[0] goes into minute detail of the politics of colonising Mars.

[0][https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_trilogy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_trilogy)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> Here are the direct links to the 3 indictments:

[https://torrentfreak.com/images/1-20-cr-00018-US-v-George- Br...](https://torrentfreak.com/images/1-20-cr-00018-US-v-George-Bridi-SPARKS- indictment-unsealed-200108.pdf) [https://torrentfreak.com/images/1-20-cr-00018-US-v-Umar- Ahma...](https://torrentfreak.com/images/1-20-cr-00018-US-v-Umar-Ahmad-SPARKS- superceding-indictment-unsealed-200825.pdf) [https://torrentfreak.com/images/1-20-cr-00018-US-v- Jonatan-C...](https://torrentfreak.com/images/1-20-cr-00018-US-v-Jonatan- Correa-SPARKS-superceding-indictment-unsealed-200825.pdf)

<comment><USER15> TorrentFreak messed up, here's the indictment for Umar Ahmad:

[https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.542945...](https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.542945/gov.uscourts.nysd.542945.9.0.pdf)

</comment></comment><comment><USER41> >Yes, I am a criminal. My crime is that of curiosity. My crime is that of judging people by what >they say and think, not what they look like. My crime is that of outsmarting you, something that you will never forgive me for. >I am a hacker, and this is my manifesto. You may stop this individual, but you can't stop us all ... >after all, we're all alike. -The Mentor

</comment><comment><USER42> Imagine if governments put even a fraction of this kinda effort and resources into solving _real_ problems?</comment>


Google Talk Syntax Highlighting - <AUTHOR> http://s.gdi2290.com/codechat

<comment><USER2> Asking for too much permissions to my taste.

<comment><USER3> So, it obviously needs permission to modify mail.google.com, as that's where the Google Chat boxes are that it is messing with. The only other thing it wants is "storage" (which Google considers harmless enough that it doesn't even generate a wanring).

<comment><USER2> Maybe but when I see "All data on your computer and the websites you visit

This item contains an NPAPI plug-in.

Caution: NPAPI plug-ins can do almost anything, in or outside of your browser. For example, they could use your webcam, or they could read your personal files."

it kind of put me off. And I see it on a lot of extensions. Maybe permissions system is too coarse, I don't know.

<comment><USER4> Yup, you can see right in the manifest file that it can only access mail.google.com: \- [https://github.com/pehrlich/GTalkSyntax/blob/master/manifest...](https://github.com/pehrlich/GTalkSyntax/blob/master/manifest.json#L17)

And view all the source code, right here: [https://github.com/pehrlich/GTalkSyntax/blob/master/javascri...](https://github.com/pehrlich/GTalkSyntax/blob/master/javascripts/highlight.coffee) (This is the one file that does almost all the work)

I really would like to make it as safe and constrained as possible, but by nature this is working with personal data. I think the best thing I can do is to keep it all open source, think about privacy, and encourage people to read the code as much as possible.

Anyway, thanks for having a look!

<comment><USER2> As stated below, I miss read. I'll have another look then.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Everyone should try this!</comment>


Google Chrome is now the #1 browser in Brazil - <AUTHOR> http://gs.statcounter.com/#browser-BR-weekly-201134-201143

<comment><USER2> thats great. the stats show that chrome is #1 browser in India as well. <http://gs.statcounter.com/#browser-IN-weekly-201134-201143></comment>


Ask HN: Are uncommon TLDs (.ly, .io) viable for average users? - <AUTHOR>

It's difficult to see the world from someone else's perspective. Rather than conjecture, I'd be interested to see if someone had done the research to verify that domains ending in something else than .com, .net or .org (or the national ccTLD).<p>Heck, maybe .net and .org even confuses some users. <comment><USER3> If you recall a while back, a blog post became the top result for typing "facebook" into the firefox address bar (or something along those lines - <USER2> [http://jonoscript.wordpress.com/2010/02/18/some-people- cant-...](http://jonoscript.wordpress.com/2010/02/18/some-people-cant-read- urls/)).

If the conclusions of this are to be believed, I would say that the URL matters very little.

</comment><comment><USER4> Larger companies which use uncommon TLD's generally buy both the TLD specific domain (ie recur.ly) and its .COM version (ie recurly.com).</comment>


Ask HN: Do you think Apple should start making Android / Windows apps? - <AUTHOR>

My answer is Yes. Considering Google has been expanding their territory in iOS app store aggressively, and now MS also made office available there, it makes sense for Apple also provide some of their core products, such as Facetime, Page / Keynote, to Android and Windows. It will eventually lure more users back to Apple's platform by doing that.<p>What do you think? <comment><USER2> They make great software, no doubt - but with one exception I can't think of anything I really want on Android of theirs. That exception is iMessage - because it'd probably hurry Google up with making something that works as well. Hangouts is nowhere near good enough, just buy the Mighty Text team! Caveat is I have no Apple hardware and don't use iTunes.

</comment><comment><USER3> I don't understand how making Apple software and services available on non- Apple hardware would drive sales of Apple hardware. Could you elaborate?

(iTunes was available on Windows but to drive iPod sales, not Mac sales.)

<comment><AUTHOR> Use Facetime as an example. If it's also available to Android and Windows, I will be able to use that with more friends. I will be more satisfied as an existing customer (hence more loyal), and my friends on Android / Windows will be able to see the superb video quality and it may become a factor of conversion eventually.

Also, if Page and Keynote are available on Windows, since they are significantly cheaper and probably have all the functionality for majority of the users, it could take bite of the Office market share.

<comment><USER3> If FaceTime is available on Android, why does your next tablet need to be an iPad? You know you'll still get the same video quality using a cheaper Android tablet, after all.</comment></comment></comment>


ByteMail - Decentralized P2P Messaging Protocol - <AUTHOR> http://www.bytemailproject.org

<comment><USER2> Can't send you a message. I've got a : "Address doesn't exist" Too bad, nice UI :)

<comment><AUTHOR> That is weird, you may not have completely finished downloading the nodes.db, or you may have relay set to True without port 5333 being open.

<comment><USER2> You're right :) 5333 port is closed.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> This project is awesome! Keep up the good work man! :D

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> Tell me what you guys think of the project.

</comment><comment><USER4> this is in-time. Good luck!

<comment><AUTHOR> Thank you sir! I figured it was as well!</comment></comment>


The Supreme Court Is Allergic to Math - <AUTHOR> https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-supreme-court-is-allergic-to-math/ <comment><USER2> I'm a numbers guy, but I believe the court's skepticism around statistics is warranted. Many concepts in statistics appear to be simple, but have lots of subtleties. There are lots of hidden assumptions in many statistical numbers, and it's not rare to see profesionals making mistakes.

If the court has to decide in the case of a bridge collapse, there will probably be a good amount of advanced mathematical modelling presented as evidence, and the justices will ask for some expert advice, they would't try to grok the math themselves. Similarly with statistics, it would be very prudent for them to defer to the experts, and even more so, considering that statistics appears deceivingly simple on the surface, while it's so easy to get it wrong.

<comment><USER3> This isn't a good argument for ignoring statistical evidence though, it's a good argument for augmenting the judiciary with a technical/legal expert staff.

Expert witnesses don't really help the situation, as both sides will produce experts that make technical arguments.

<comment><USER2> Excellent suggestion. The article actually mentions this idea "McGhee, who helped develop the efficiency gap measure, wondered if the court should hire a trusted staff of social scientists to help the justices parse empirical arguments. " I think it's a very good idea.

As for my original argument, I didn't advocate for the court to ignore statistical evidence. I think courts in general should weigh all the evidence. They just should exercise caution with statistical arguments, it's only too easy to get it wrong.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> The real punchline to this article occurs near the end:

"But maybe this allergy to statistical evidence is really a smoke screen — a convenient way to make a decision based on ideology while couching it in terms of practicality."

As a data scientist and former attorney, I can tell you that these people understand the math. This isn't about understanding, it's about giving up power. Judges do not want the law to act mechanically on important issues---if it did, who would need them? They want subjective terms in the law, subject to interpretation, so that they have some freedom to change outcomes that seem unjust to them. They want that power. And if they start ceding it to algorithms, their role will be diminished.

<comment><USER5> It seems more like a structural flaw in how the law is written. Arguably if a case makes it to the SC then it means the law was ambiguous to start with. For something like boundary allocations an algorithm could have been written into the law directly by lawmakers. Why does this even end up in front of the Supremes?

<comment><USER4> Switching to a fair districting algorithm will never benefit the party in power, since by definition the existing law put them there. The only change they're going to want to make is in the direction of further bias.

<comment><USER5> The UK is successfully going through a re-districting process at the moment. So I don't think it's impossible.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Not just the US. Supreme Court.

I believe most judges and jurist in the world are allergic to Math just because they had to choose between a Science or Humanities curriculum as if it were opposite one of each other.

</comment><comment><USER7> This is a hugely important issue for not just any specific area but American society in general. One word I don't see come up in Mr. Roeder's otherwise interesting article directly is "emergent", as in "emergent effects", but I believe that is at the core of many debates around issues like privacy/surveillance. Certain problems only show up with large enough numbers, ie, they exhibit non-linear scaling effects despite looking linear at small scales, and courts cannot simply draw a straight line and get an accurate reading. Privacy and security are ultimately based on economics, so there are cases where empiricism is unavoidable.

To take a single example, the "expectation of privacy in public": historically it's been overall accepted (and seems like "common sense") that an individual fully out in public has minimal expectation of privacy. Anyone randomly going by might see them. And in turn it makes sense that someone (including law enforcement) could review any single point source (like a security camera) without issue. However, as a practical matter there has still historical been a sort of emergent privacy due to resource limits. Nobody can track every single person, and dedicating the resources to surveil any single target/organization imposed natural limitations. Additionally, courts exercised some control via warrants for certain levels of surveillance, including new technology. For example, in Torrey Dale Grady v. North Carolina a few years ago the SCOTUS ruled putting a tracking device on a person or vehicle is a search under the 4th Amendment.

But in a world of ubiquitous recording and sufficient storage and computing resources, a lot of point sources can become effectively the same thing as putting trackers on everyone despite each being within existing jurisprudence individually. The nature of "voluntarily" giving up data gets called into question. Combined with other data or alone, where people go, who they meet, and at what times can be used to draw statistical inferences about a tremendous amount of information any reasonable person would believe private. But it's only the number of data points that have changed and the resource feasibility for storing/utilizing that data, not their individual nature. There is no whizbang new tech needed, just "more", "cheaper", and "better math".

Are American courts ready for those sorts of questions? What about apportioning responsibility for future externalities whose effects only show up statistically? It'll be a big deal in terms of restraining the new powers major entities are acquiring.

<comment><USER8>
      > Are American courts ready for those sorts of questions?

In short, no, and they never will be. Courts aren't supposed to be in the business of solving social issues. Their fundamental function is to adjudicate disputes where there has been concrete, identifiable, and remediable harm to one individual by another individual.

Remember that in a gerrymandering case the fundamental question is whether a _specific_ plaintiff has been _specifically_ harmed by gerrymandering. The best statistical model in the world isn't going to answer that question; at best it gets you halfway there.

The executive and legislative branches are supposed to be the organs of government that grapple with these issues; the ones that enlist legions of bureaucrats to aggregate data and decide on the best aggregate policies. The real issue is that we're asking too much of our courts because the other two branches of our government--especially the legislative branch--has become ineffective and derelict. And, yes, that's party because of gerrymandering. It's quite a dilemma, but that still doesn't mean that the courts should jump into the fray.

I'm skeptical of conservative arguments that courts should stay completely out of gerrymandering disputes. It's obviously self-serving, not to mention hypocritical in light of the fact that all the conservative justices wanted to strike-down non-partisan redistricting commissions as unconstitutional. But as a clear legal rule that approach has significant benefits. Among other things, it would force communities to return to the ballot box rather than resort to the courthouse.</comment></comment>


Generative Art Is the Ideal Hobby for a Software Developer - <AUTHOR> https://spin.atomicobject.com/2019/07/20/generative-art-software-dev/ <comment><USER2> I love generative art. I've only really dabbled in it myself, but if you want to see what professional-quality generative art looks like check out the work of Tyler Hobbs [0]. He uses the Clojure library Quil [1] to make his pieces, which in my opinion is one of the most fun and intuitive ways to make generative art.

[0] [https://tylerxhobbs.com/](https://tylerxhobbs.com/) [1] [http://www.quil.info/](http://www.quil.info/)</comment>


My name causes an issue with any booking - <AUTHOR> https://travel.stackexchange.com/questions/149323/my-name-causes-an-issue-with-any-booking-names-end-with-mr-and-mrs <comment><USER2> I have a suffix (the Roman numeral Ⅳ), and it causes all sorts of problems. Some sites will have me "prove" that I'm me by asking questions about "my" credit history, and very often I'll get my father's. Half the time I've already supplied a SSN… which makes it even more appalling that they can't get this right.

I've also been issued a driver's license for a "4TH". I have no idea how TSA would ever spot a fake. (Since they don't flag me! But I'm also in a demographic that tends to get passes in the security theatre…)

<comment><USER3> My wife is from Myanmar, where most people only have one name (no first, last, etc.) and has experienced endless frustration since immigrating here to the US. It's been quite difficult for her and even limiting in some ways and she's broken down in tears more than once.

Some places just put a few letters into each field (like say for the name Jessica, first: Jes, middle: si, last: ca, or something like that). The DMV did that, and then listed her name on her license as <last>\<first> <middle initial>. Others have insisted on putting "nosurname" in the last name field. The immigration people put "FNU" as first name, and her given name in the last. At some places she's put her name twice, once in the first, and once in the last.

Not anything close to what she's had to endure, but my name doesn't fit the standard mold either. I prefer to use my middle name and really dislike using my first name (shared whith my dad, who I don't have a good relationship with). I'm endlessly having to explain every single stinking time I interact with pretty much anyone.

Anyway, the take away is, please please please (!!!) don't make assumptions about people's names! Ideally just one field labeled "name", and let the user interpret that as they see fit. If you need to collect a legal name then you need to validate it anyway. If you really must do first name / last name then at least make the last optional and also include a field for "what should we call you" or "nick name" or something.

Great ted talk about Myanmar names: [https://www.ted.com/talks/cynthia_ma_shwe_sin_win_not_good_w...](https://www.ted.com/talks/cynthia_ma_shwe_sin_win_not_good_with_names_local_name_customs_in_a_global_village)

<comment><USER4> > I prefer to use my middle name and really dislike using my first name > (shared with my dad, who I don't have a good relationship with). I'm > endlessly having to explain every single stinking time I interact with > pretty much anyone.

This sounds dramatically overstated. Going by your middle name is normal and doesn't require much in the way of explanations. For example, my father goes by his middle name. This has led to "problems" all of one time -- when he worked for the military, they insisted on the first name. So, during that period, he used the first name.

<comment><USER3> I know it's a minor annoyance, but it's something that jades me every single day and gets really old after a while. I feel companies and websites should do a better job of being respectful. A "what should we call you" field is simple and easy, would make the service much more friendly to some people.

<comment><USER5> So do you dutifully put your real first name into all forms? I know people who always go by shortened versions of their name (e.g. Rob instead of Robert). They just put in their preferred name as their first name for everything (uni, bills, etc.)

You can't blame companies for using the name they give you. Are you worried about being accused of fraud or something?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Amr Eladawy has personally contacted GDS but been ignored. Sadly, this is one of those situations where getting a lawyer to send a letter to them probably would work. A bug that affects a group of minorities with a mention of interfering with the US Constitution right to travel with a hint of possible class action will tend to fix this type of bug. I don't like bug-report-via- lawyer but it does work.

<comment><USER7> To be fair, we don't know if the problem is being ignored, or just isn't in the current sprint.

Think about how this would go on your team. Customer service sends in a ticket to your Product owner, complaining that a customer has a problem, and called in not only reporting it, but telling you exactly what their expected fix was. Even if the team acknowledged the problem and wanted to fix it, would it really be bumped to the #1 priority, and would the team really just take the fix from the customer instead of designing their own solution?

Or would it be triaged and prioritized, taking into account all other product and customers needs at the same time?

I'm not arguing that airline customer service is great. But a post on stackexchange venting about a customer service team's lack of communication gives us zero insights into what is really going on.

<comment><USER8> All the Agile nonsense is irrelevant if you're not communicating with the individual.

<comment><USER9> True, where I worked for, they'd scrap a sprint to fix something that went over CxO's channel.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> >Recently, another smart developer decided to prevent people with first name less than 2 characters from checking-in.

PSA, don't assume everyone has a name of at least 2 characters; it isn't remotely true. Some people don't even have more than one name.

<comment><USER11> My entire "legal" name is "Aaron." (And now you know what my HN name means.) I was born with the usual three names. When I was thirty, years before 9/11 and DHS, I got a court order and dropped the middle and last. Because, OK?

Never a problem, often a conversation. Sometimes I'd have to spend a little effort to be sure it said "Aaron" on my driver license. Other areas like credit cards and employment I've been more flexible, going by "A Aaron" or "Aaron Aaron," etc.

SS used to call me "Aaron." At some point they renamed me to "UNK Aaron."

All fine.

Coming on two years ago, as part of a "pivot," I got my CDL, Commercial Driver License.

Up to this point my DL said "Aaron." During training my learners permit said "Aaron."

When it came time to take the CDL road test, the CDL office, separate in some way from the DMV, would not schedule my test.

"Because there _must_ be something in the first and last name fields _on the driver license_."

Without investigating, I'm quite sure that they populate some CDL office record from some DMV record, and _their_ software was written assuming that there must be two names _and_ assuming that the DMV records would all have at least two names. But not three or more, because the programmer or requirements writer had personal experience with people without a middle name.

So I had to go back to the DMV and get my driver license changed to something else.

It too a while, phone calls, "can't you just ..." etc.

The clerk finally agreed to list me as "Unknown Aaron." Which, note, is not my legal name, just what the DMV agreed to call me. So my legal name and "wallet" name are not the same.

Now the CDL office recognized me as "Unknown Aaron." Took my test, got my permanent CDL. Which says "Unknown Aaron."

Hired on with a company which knows me as "Unknown Aaron," because they have to use my CDL name because the feds know me that way now.

Which means my health and other insurance knows me that way.

Which means my doctors know me that way.

So thanks, anonymous programmer.

<comment><USER12> > I've been more flexible, going by "A Aaron"

I'm sorry, but if I found that name IRL I'd have a hard time not laughing. Have you seen the Substitute Teacher sketch by Key and Peele?

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dd7FixvoKBw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dd7FixvoKBw)

<comment><USER11> Yup. Funny.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> I have an apostrophe in my name and it causes allll sorts of issues like this. (Think Bobby Tables). To the point where I'm pretty convinced that the internet is going to wipe out apostrophes from people's actual names. In fact I just omitted it in my most recent drivers license.

<comment><USER14> My name is officially spelled as Léon.

The letter e with an acute accent causes all sorts of UTF-8 encoding issues with many services, not just airliners. If you interpret the UTF-8 é (0xC3A9) as ASCII it becomes à (0xC3) + © (0xA9), so my name often comes out as 'Léon'.

Airlines make it worse, because they strip both characters during sanity checking, so my name comes out as 'Lon', which has caused me problems a couple of times as the name on my passport did not match the name on the ticket.

<comment><USER2> > _If you interpret the UTF-8 é (0xC3A9) as ASCII it becomes à (0xC3) + © > (0xA9)_

As latin1 (ISO-8859-1) or Win-1252; ASCII doesn't have either à or ©.

latin1 is the default for text, including HTML, if you don't specify in protocols such as HTTP (modulo some stupidity from the WHATWG where it might be Win-1252 instead) and Windows-1252 is the default encoding in Windows in the USA (at least, prior to the Unicode APIs being added. The old APIs probably still exist though…). So these codecs pop up a lot in places where people who don't know what they're doing end up touching text.

<comment><USER15> I ran across some code once for descrambling data that had been incorrectly processed like that, which I found common in legal documents. It's an interesting problem, because strictly speaking, it's lossy, but you can use probabilities to figure out something plausible. You can decode/encode one thing as another, or you can decode/encode multiple times...

<comment><USER16> Any chance you have a link? I've had implement solutions to this myself and it's very tedious. If someone has built a more complete solution I would love to just use that instead

<comment><USER17> This HN thread has some links and discussion: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16103356](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16103356)

<comment><USER15> That might be what I'm remembering; then again, I don't really do Python, so maybe it was something else. I doubt it was anything better than the link above, regardless.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> As a general rule, the earlier an industry automated their systems, the worse the implementation.

In the earlier decades of computing, the software industry really just didn't know what it was doing too much. (Not that we're perfect now, but we were even worse back then.)

And replacing an implementation is a huge undertaking, and a lot of industries just don't bother.

This leads to a paradoxical situation where industries that most obviously need automation are the ones that have the worst automation. Before others, they pushed to get it done, and they got locked in to something primitive and/or outmoded.

<comment><USER19> I mean, it doesn't hurt that hardware now is so fast and scalable that performance and efficiency can take a back seat to usability and clarity. Guarantee this was done because storing the title as part of the first name field saved a few bytes over having a separate field, and that really mattered in the 70s when these systems were designed.

<comment><USER20> Based on the top answer, this appears to be an error in the CLI "helpfully" re-interpreting Amr as { First name: A, Title: Mr }, not an issue on the data storage side.

<comment><USER21> This interpretation imputes a principled separation of the "CLI" from the "data storage side". Not a winning bet.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> My first name ends with "-dr" and I've been awarded doctorates by quite a few airlines.

<comment><USER23> An honorary Doctorate from American Airlines, quite the impressive feat.

</comment></comment><comment><USER24> I was prevented from doing an _advance online check-in_ with Emirates (while overseas) because - I was told later - my son and I have the same (first/last) name and their system couldn't handle it. Subsequently, the flight was overbooked and we got bumped (which would have been avoided had I been able to use their online advance check-in).

I still can't get my head around how their online check-in system was setup where this could happen.

 _updated for clarity_

<comment><USER25> So my best guess with my limited knowledge about GDS:

\- You were on the same booking with an infant with the same name

\- You were the primary passenger

\- Due to overbooking people get bumped

\- They usually start with comfort seats (both in your name) or an accidental double booking

\- Because your son, probably underage at that time, was bumped the primary passenger was bumped too

<comment><USER26> It says that the issue was 2 persons on a flight with the same name. The system can't handle it.

<comment><USER25> Cool, but not being able to checkin online is usually a sign of already being bumped, not the other way around.

<comment><USER24> Well, that's certainly plausible. Though I was told - after escalating the issue - that their system had an _" issue with our names being the same"_ causing some bug in their online system.

Normally our middle initials are carried forward to the carrier's booking system and that differentiates my son and I when we fly together... but in Emirates case it seems they weren't.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> I noticed while watching the Athletics World Championships, that the 5000m runner Ben True always had his name shown in the results as:

SMITH John

True Ben

JONES Fred

BLOGGS Bill

<comment> iso-8859-1 So it probably means that a "dynamically" typed system is used. Is there a database where if you INSERT the string 'TRUE' you get an actual boolean stored? IIRC MySQL used to not actually coerce types into the type the column is declared as.

</comment></comment><comment><USER28> A simpler case is Hispanic surnames. Suppose I'm writer Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra. From airline tickets to name tags in networking/speaking engagement programs, I show up as Miguel Saavedra. But I'm Cervantes.

I'm not Cervantes and I suppose I'm a little patriarchal, but I'm very proud of my dad's achievements and wear his name (whenever they let me) with pride.

<comment><USER29> Also with a name like "Firstname Last Name" I love having my initials show up in software as "FN"

<comment><USER30> Telegram does this in chat icons and it's very annoying.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER31> My name is John O'Brien. I can't tell you the number of times using my name breaks web forms.

One time at work, I insisted on getting access to a system I manage. When they added my name, the whole system came down for a day in production. I told them never mind, they deleted my name from the list of registered users, and the system came back up.

True story.

</comment><comment><USER32> Congress should pass the Little Bobby Tables Act, that outlaws SQL injection bugs, legalizes the use of full Unicode in all names, and requires all software to be updated to fully support its requirements.

Then you could give your kids cool names with colorful emojis, and even invisible &ZWNBSP; zero-width no-break space word joiners and &SHY; soft hyphens!

<comment><USER33> Legislators tend to do a very bad job of creating technical standards. There is no constitutionally-enumerated power for Congress to regulate which character-encoding standard is used. On the other hand, updating all gov't and military systems to unicode-only would force the change pretty quickly, I'd guess.

You also can't outlaw a vulnerability. It's an honest development mistake.

I assume you're joking about emojis and other esoteric characters?

<comment><USER34> > There is no constitutionally-enumerated power for Congress to regulate which > character-encoding standard is used.

If you squint, it's kind of covered by the weights and measures clause, in the same way that the clause that allows Congress to establish armies covers Congress establishing the Air Force.

<comment><USER35> You don't really need to squint. A combination of the weights and measures clause, the interstate commerce clause, the federal postal service, is more than enough for Congress to have jursidiction on how names are to be encoded and processed.

<comment><USER34> It's also unquestionably legal to have an Air Force, too.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER36> My official full name is too long, I just have a second and a third first name with are all not so short. This is not uncommon here in Germany and therefore usually not a problem. But a lot of foreign IT systems where it says "put it exactly like in your official document" it doesn't work or it cuts it of. Witch made my third name once "Al". It also happened that it took my second name as my last name....

The German state isn't much better with foreign names. I have a lot of friends who are from eastern europe. Everybody has a weird story about how their current passport name came about.

Why isn't there some ISO name parsing standard that can understand a weird title of a prince of a city state and give you an appropriate output of it?

This is acutally a research topic, so the information is right there.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthroponymy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthroponymy)

Our globally connected society didn't figure out how to deal with names yet. Weird if you think about it.

<comment><USER37> if you start parsing names, you have already lost:

[https://www.kalzumeus.com/2010/06/17/falsehoods- programmers-...](https://www.kalzumeus.com/2010/06/17/falsehoods-programmers- believe-about-names/)

<comment><USER36> The standard could have fallback field, where you just put your UTF-8 string in there and then the system knows it's something that doesn't fit in all the other categories.

Better than not trying at least, the current situation just sucks.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER38> Question for HN commenters:

What is the most appropriate way to store names in a way that is unlikely to run into issues?

<comment><USER39> I'm hardly a professional but what's the big issue with just having a string field for the name. Why separate first last middle suffixes etc. Seems entirely pointless. When you want to search for someone you can just search for a substring instead of a particular field.

Did I just win database?

<comment><USER15> Things that come to mind offhand:

\- First initial and last name are used for some things, such as usernames.

\- First name and last initial are used for some things, such as public displays where you don't want to have the full name

\- Last name is used to sort lists

\- Names are entered differently due to error or constraints in different places, so you want a way to search the parts that stay the same. Sure, you can imagine everybody just had a string field, but it can't happen all at once. And on a global scale, there are definitely people who will enter their name differently anyway.

<comment><USER40> There are people who only have one name, so anything that relies on having two names is essentially broken.

You commonly see companies with user names that started as first character of first name + last name, and then you see later ones that don't follow the pattern when they realize they can't make it work.

<comment><USER3> > There are people who only have one name

My wife for one. At the very least make the last name field optional.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER41> Since hyphenating my last name, I can no longer check into AA flights without human intervention.. minor inconvenience I guess, but annoying.

In general it seems we make bad assumptions about names - like that everyone has a "first name" and a "last name" to enter into two separate database fields.

<comment><USER42> [https://www.kalzumeus.com/2010/06/17/falsehoods- programmers-...](https://www.kalzumeus.com/2010/06/17/falsehoods-programmers- believe-about-names/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER43> I work with people from India who don't have a Western first-name last-name structure and have gotten very used to seeing their full multipart names written in both the first and last field. It seems a common workaround for these folks with names that break the system - just write their full name in all name fields.

</comment><comment><USER44> Nothing on the level of inconvenience that man experiences, but the other day I went to the Argos to buy some stuff and they have a new system where they ask you to input your first name as an identifier for your order.

So I entered mine, which is "stassa", and ... I got an error message saying my "memorable word is invalid". I got a screenshot and all:

[https://imgur.com/a/En4dBQO](https://imgur.com/a/En4dBQO)

The error message says "Sorry, your memorable word is invalid; please enter a different word".

So I entered "alice" and that was accepted. I guess, they originally had a message prompting the user for a "memorable word" not to enter their "first name". I didn't try it because I was in a hurry but I bet their system is setup to accept only dictionary words, but then they realised that most people will just enter whatever comes to their mind and often fail to match the dictionary that (I assume) the Argos developers have chosen as "standard".

So now they're asking people to enter their names... and that also fails because people often have names that are not in the dictionary. Like mine that just happens to be foreign (for the UK; it's a Greek name).

I just imagine the looks of confusion on people called Sandeep (not a British English dictionary word) or LaRonda (not one either) or Marek (also not) etc. "But, it says my name is invalid. What do I do?".

Automation, eh?

Edit: I wasn't buying what's partly showing on the left of the image, btw :)

<comment><USER45> Or maybe it is a ban on

      /.*ass.*/

    ?

<comment><USER44> Oh.

Well, thanks. Now I will never say my own name in the same, care-free and innocent way I've always said it until now.

Ever. Again.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER46> While at school I went on a group booked international trip with most of the year, including someone unrelated but with the same surname.

In both directions we had to check-in together and claim to be brothers, because whatever booking system had somehow assumed we were, and for whatever reason it was more important (or perhaps easier and without consequence) (the staff told us) to go along with that booking mistake than to be honest.

</comment><comment><USER47> From the SE comments:

> My friend's last name is Test: he says airline tickets are silently deleted > about 25% of the time. Awful!

Yikes...

</comment><comment><USER48> Another victim of in-band signalling.

</comment><comment><USER49> DJ Delorie (of DJGPP game) used to complain about similar broken systems

</comment><comment><USER50> Last year, I integrated a Zuora payment iframe into a popular sports streaming product. We had a customer who couldn't sign up, because his surname contained the word _resize_ , which is a command that the iframe sends to its host script to adjust the iframe's height. It was some of the most rubbish code I've ever seen. Zuora continued to deny it was their fault, so I doubt it's been fixed. I worked around it by uppercasing the cardholder's name.

<comment><USER51> hi Steve, we happened to notice this so to give you an update that the issue mentioned here has already been fixed ;)

</comment></comment><comment><USER52> Reminds me of "Mr. Buttle" and "Mr. Tuttle" (reference to the movie "Brazil")

</comment><comment><USER53> My last name causes lots of problems in China. Is there a space after the Mc or not? They've decided there must be because my passport has one, woe is me if I leave it out (I've been in banking hell a few times because of this). Also, your given name is your first name + middle name.

</comment><comment><USER54> I don't understand why this isn't causing him serious problems travelling.

I'm also surprised this isn't a more widely recognised phenomenon, because whilst there are very few first names ending mr, there are quite a few more ending miss or ms.

<comment><USER55> I thought as a joke that the API is so old, that they didn't treat women passengers with the same formality. Well... that might be true. In the documentation linked, I see no example of "MS" or "MISS".

[http://www.amadeus.com/bg/documents/aco/bg/basic- qrg.pdf](http://www.amadeus.com/bg/documents/aco/bg/basic-qrg.pdf)

Page 33

<comment><USER56> They do seem to support the common ones:

[https://servicehub.amadeus.com/c/portal/view- solution/389313...](https://servicehub.amadeus.com/c/portal/view- solution/3893134/en_US/guidelines-on-passenger-name-record-pnr-data)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER57> [https://www.kalzumeus.com/2010/06/17/falsehoods- programmers-...](https://www.kalzumeus.com/2010/06/17/falsehoods-programmers- believe-about-names/)

</comment><comment><USER58> >Using a space, the parsing is unambiguous, however not all agents put a space, thus if instead the agent types:

>Then the command will be parsed as (NM, 1, ELADAWY, A, MR) to be "helpful".

And that's why doing some things for "convenience's sake" is BS. If a travel agent can't type a space between the name and the title then they shouldn't be a travel agent

Or if they don't double check it was entered correctly (which ok, in some terminals might have been a bit annoying)

I have two last names, GDSs just concatenates them together. Weird, but it works.

</comment><comment><USER59> Seems like the only way to get them to fix this is to make a fuss about how it's racist. You shouldn't have to, but that's what I would do. That'll get them to pay attention.

</comment><comment><USER60> They did not test-run the code change against a database of the names of previous fliers?

Because if the change reduced some passengers to "can't be booked" I think that should raise some flags.

<comment><USER61> Are there any public test data sets of name corner cases? Given the popular "falsehoods programmers believe" lists, someone could create a public data set of unsanitized name inputs, expected decompositions, and expected round trip result. I think genealogy organizations have published de facto standards for name formatting.

<comment><USER62> Not exactly what you asked for, but [https://github.com/minimaxir/big-list-of- naughty-strings/](https://github.com/minimaxir/big-list-of-naughty-strings/) does have a lot of inputs which, if given as names, would turn out the bugs you're looking for.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER63> I too have always wondered why my name can sometimes get mangled between what I type in and what arrived on my ticket. Fascinating insight into the airline industry.

<comment><USER64> Airlines I fly with a lot I know how to type in my name into their boxes in order to generate the right ticket name. If they only have a first name, last name box where do I put my middle name and/or Jr? Some force me to pick a Mr./Mrs/Miss/etc..., and then put it on the ticket...sigh.

</comment></comment><comment><USER65> I know twin brothers who have a long name (very common in some parts of India). So when they moved to US apparently they both were issued same SSN number because the SSN system registered the name backwards ( last -> middle -> first) which exceeded the limit and the first name which was unique got changed to FNU (First name undefined).

It took them years to figure out they both had same SSN.

</comment><comment><USER66> My wife has a hyphenated first name and no middle name, Like Mary-Claire Smith. It's very annoying for all kinds of systems, and usually results in some kind of compromise like separating the hyphenated name into first and middle, which isn't a huge deal, but does not match her documents and isn't really her name. Ugh.

</comment><comment><USER67> I've had a similar issue. And wasn't allowed to board as a result. Airlines can be pretty ruthless in their incompetence

</comment><comment><USER68> One I don't see often in these is where one didn't refer to a given person by their name at all.

It doesn't matter if they're in the system as "Elizabeth Windsor", if you don't send them their account statement addressed to "Their Royal Highness" they'll switch to a company which does...

</comment><comment><USER69> My middle name is my first name, and my given name is my middle name. So it's "Middle Given Surname". It's common where I'm from and on my official identification the given name is usually just underlined. I've had no end of issues since moving to the UK however.

</comment><comment><USER70> Don't get me started about 'middle initial'. I have two, but good luck with that.

<comment><USER61> I have a friend whose middle name is just a single letter (H), so his middle initial is the same as his middle name.

<comment><USER71> Like U.S. President Harry S. Truman:

[https://www.trumanlibrary.gov/education/trivia/use-of- period...](https://www.trumanlibrary.gov/education/trivia/use-of-period-after- s-truman-name)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER72> What about doubling the 'mr' in the end of your name ? It should be (I say that without any serious confidence) possible to explain the probleme in case of someone wanting to know why you ticket name is'nt exactly matching your id document.

<comment><USER73> Since it sometimes comes through as 'Amrmr', I guess some agents are trying that but for their system it isn't stripped.

</comment></comment><comment><USER32> >Recently, another smart developer decided to prevent people with first name less than 2 characters from checking-in.

That would have made it difficult for The Artist Formerly Known As Prince to fly commercially.

<comment><USER11> My best guess is that that was only his celebrity name, and he used his original name for non celebrity business. Like Cher.

<comment><USER32> He made his own font, and distributed it on floppy disks to members of the press, along with complete step-by-step instruction for how to refer to the artist by name in print, and how install the font on Mac and PC!

[https://milk.com/wall-o-shame/bruce_font.html](https://milk.com/wall-o- shame/bruce_font.html)

>[P] Background: On June 7, 1993, mega-star Prince surprised fans and the entertainment industry when he announced that he was separating from his band New Power Generation and changing his name. At the time, the performer legally changed his name top the symbol [P], which has no verbal pronunciation or spelling. He did not reveal his reason for the change.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER74> I came here expecting the author to be Little Bobby Tables...

</comment><comment><USER75> My name is legally "Ed" (not Edward), and I had some trouble recently registering on a website which required a minimum of 3 chars for the first name.

</comment><comment><USER76> Maybe he can just tell the agent to put in the name AMRMR instead.

<comment><USER77> Or MrAmr which, assuming Amr is a man, would be technically not wrong when he enters his name as "Mr Amr" and would then be (correctly) corrected by the system dropping the first instance of "mr" in the string.

</comment></comment><comment><USER78> It seems the solution is for him to but mr infront of or after his name. Another solution to a part of a name getting filtered out is to write it many times. For example ammrr turns into amr if mr is removed.

</comment><comment><USER79> I was expecting an article about someone named "DELETE FROM USERS;"

</comment><comment><USER80> I haven't used an agent or gotten a ticket since back when Amadeus was new

</comment><comment><USER81> hyphens and name length can also cause issues

</comment><comment><USER82> Hello, "Not Sure"

</comment><comment><USER82> Hello, Not Sure

</comment><comment><USER83> I find it incredibly annoying that every single answer seems to just accept that this is how things are and can't be changed.

And that it's fine because everyone knows it's buggy.

That's great, but it would be cool if one day I didn't have to explain all this to some random airline staff 50 times during my travel.

</comment><comment><USER84> In the US at least courts have ruled that although you have a right to travel such as by foot, your right to travel by car or plane etc is not an absolute right but is a privilege subject to regulation.

To travel on a plane your booking name must match your government id.

Old systems written in COBOL have been tried to be updated countless times over the last 70 years and it's simply not possible technologically.

Therefore if this gentleman wishes to travel he will need to change his legal name.

It sucks but this is the price we pay for freedom and safety.

</comment><comment><USER85> Reminds me of this:

[https://xkcd.com/327/](https://xkcd.com/327/)

</comment><comment><USER86> I was hoping for this being a post about grown up Little Bobby Tables.

<comment><USER87> > I was hoping for this being a post about grown up Little Bobby Tables.

You beat me to it[0]! :-D

0 - [https://www.xkcd.com/327/](https://www.xkcd.com/327/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER88> Quite unusual spelling. Most Amars would be Amar or Amer (or Umar/Omar).

<comment><USER89> It's not Amar though. Amr is a very common Egyptian name. And it's literally sounds like ah-mr. There's no vowel you can put between m and r to make that sound.

<comment><USER90> What about 'i'?

I'm not suggesting this gets done - the persons name is their name.

A system I use has a 42 character limit for the last name, at that was passed last week with a 47 character last name.

<comment><USER88> Different name, Amir starts with an Allif

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER91> Anything other than [A-Za-z]+ causes trouble.

<comment><USER92> Did you read TFA? His name matches [A-Za-z]+.

<comment><USER93> Maybe he meant "can also cause problems in old systems"</comment></comment></comment>


2010 Physics Nobel Prize (Graphene) - <AUTHOR> http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/physics/laureates/2010/announcement.html

<comment><USER2> There's an excellent short overview (with many links) of why graphene matters here:

[http://blog.joerg.heber.name/2010/10/05/great-the-physics- no...](http://blog.joerg.heber.name/2010/10/05/great-the-physics-nobel-prize- for-graphene-now-dont-overhype-it/)

It punctures some of the hype, while still conveying what's interesting.

</comment><comment><USER3> I really liked this quote at the end of the press release

[http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/physics/laureates/2010/pr...](http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/physics/laureates/2010/press.html)

"Playfulness is one of their hallmarks, one always learns something in the process and, who knows, you may even hit the jackpot. Like now when they, with graphene, write themselves into the annals of science."

Congrats to the winners and especially to Konstantin Novoselov who is one of youngest to win a Nobel at age 36.

<comment><USER4> Geim's the guy who levitated the frog:

"Geim shared the 2000 Ig Nobel Prize with Sir Michael Berry of Bristol University, for levitating the frog. His award of the Nobel Prize for Physics in 2010 made him the first person to win an Ig followed by the real version."

 _Badass_. (Even if my physics past wants someone to win something big for work on silicates one day. Dammit, glasses are fascinating.)

<comment><USER5> Here is some more info and videos <http://www.ru.nl/hfml/research/levitation/diamagnetic/>

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Here is the process of making graphene with a sticky tape -it was posted here a while ago. [http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=diy- graphen...](http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=diy-graphene-how- to-make-carbon-layers-with-sticky-tape)

<comment><USER6> Anything involving cleaning with 'piranha' probably isn't really a DIY project.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piranha_solution#Safety>

<comment><USER7> "...a suitable candidate, prior to using Piranha, is 98% sulphuric acid."

<comment><USER8> Anything involving 98% H2SO4 is probably not properly described as "DIY" project either...

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Andre Geim is quite a character. He won the Ig Nobel Prize in 2000 for floating a frog ([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ig_Nobel_Prize_winners#...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ig_Nobel_Prize_winners#2000)).

<comment><USER10> He also chose his hamster as co-author for one of his articles:

<http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/S0921-4526(00)00753-5>

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> Here is their most popular graphene paper (open access in Nature Materials)

<http://www.nature.com/nmat/journal/v6/n3/full/nmat1849.html>

</comment><comment><USER9> Sixty Symbols has already a video out: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6ZBkpWqrzg>

</comment><comment><USER12> Although I'm congratulating both of them , it's a prize for engineering achievement not a physics discovery. Shows how the physics field is stagnant.

<comment><USER13> I suggest reading through at least 0.1% of the tens of thousands of papers which have been published on the subject of graphene alone in the last five years before declaring the entire field of physics to be stagnant.

<comment><USER14> I understand your point; but myth_drannon was saying that research on graphene is more engineering than physics. I know that engineering and physics overlap; but not sure if this research is engineering or physics; or who decides which is which.

<comment><USER15> I think the process by which they discovered their synthesis method qualifies as experimental physics. Keep in mind that it is still hugely infeasible to produce industrial quantities of the stuff.

Also, as the parent says, a review of the literature shows a wealth of interesting physics being done with the material, much of it unencumbered by aspirations of possible engineering applications.

<comment><USER16> I think this is semantics: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1760580>

<comment><USER14> "I think this is semantics"

Of course; semantics refers to meaning of words; obviously disagreement between two parties will be about the meaning of words. Probably, you mean "polemics."

Physicists are professional doctors of philosophy; by tradition; they own the right to define any theoretical subject and they defined physics as the fundamental science defining nature; which is not correct. Physics is just one way of looking at nature.

<comment><USER16> > Probably, you mean "polemics."

No, I mean this is a confusion about the meaning of a word (namely, "physics") not a dispute about facts (empirical or normative).

By the way, saying an argument boils down to semantics is not vacuous. If I disagree with Bob about whether the moon will be full tonight, we have no disagreement or misunderstanding about the meaning of words.

<comment><USER14> "this is a confusion about the meaning of a word (namely, "physics")"

I agree; [http://science1.wordpress.com/2008/03/30/definition-of- physi...](http://science1.wordpress.com/2008/03/30/definition-of-physics/) "physics" is a pun; and this is how physicists like it.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> So when will we see mass produced graphene? Also same question for carbon nano-tubes.

What are the obstacles waiting to be overcome?

</comment><comment><USER18> Is this physics or chemistry?

<comment><USER18> Let me rephrase, since I am interested in the answer and am not sure why I'm getting downvotes. Why is graphene awarded a Noble in Physics, while buckyballs were awarded a Noble in Chemistry in 1996? Is it because fullerene occurs in nature?

<comment><USER19> The main reason is probably that physicists found graphene more interesting to study than buckyballs. This can be quantified by looking at the number of articles published in top physics-only journals (e.g. Physical Review Letters).

There are a couple of good reasons why so: (i) graphene has a "simple" electronic and atomic structure that has interesting features of its own (Google for the Dirac cone), (ii) graphene flakes are big compared to buckies, so it's possible to study them with common methods that physicists like -- electronic transport, crystallographic methods, you name it, and (iii) many proposed applications of graphene e.g. in electronics fall close to physics.

In short: physicist are fond of simple things, and graphene is simple. So, Nobel prize in physics.</comment></comment></comment>


Ability in Math does not reduce language, does reduce face recognition - <AUTHOR> http://m.pnas.org/content/113/18/4909.abstract <comment><USER2> Full text: [http://m.pnas.org/content/113/18/4909.full](http://m.pnas.org/content/113/18/4909.full)</comment>


The new celibacy? How porn may be destroying the impetus for sex - <AUTHOR> http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/the-new-celibacy-how-porn-is-destroying-the-impetus-for-sex-93222/

<comment><USER2> I think the article is confusing a variety of different problems. Anyone here watch that old grade B sci-fi movie called Cherry 2000? The idea is that relationships have become so insanely complex that the romance has been completely lost. So, people turn to sexbots for intimate relationships. Porn is our modern day version of the sex bot (at least until actual sexbots appear).

IMO: Porn isn't destroying relationships. Porn is a simple supply and demand product. If there's no demand, it would just go away naturally.

Powerful intimate bonds and the sex that results from that bond is the most amazing experience I've ever had. No porn can ever replace that. It can't even come close. So, the problem must be that true intimacy simply isn't being experienced. Why is that?

<comment><USER3> There is a great deal of anecdotal evidence that it is indeed destroying relationships. I suggest you browse the pornfree subreddit and see what people are saying. I know it's not science, but it's suggestive nevertheless.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> "Q: what does the optimist see in the graveyard ? A: only pluses". I think overall porn is good. It satisfies basic needs of millions of people which would otherwise be forced to "fake entire relationships". It reduces the risk of STDs and unwanted babies. I could bet that in max 2 years after google launches those internet balloons, the third world population growth will just stop.

</comment><comment><USER5> "Studies show that easy access to free internet pornography is having devastating effects on real-life relationships."

I don't see any link to any study, so I guess we should take this affirmation as... "an article of faith"

<comment><AUTHOR> The studies mentioned are cited in the FTND article, linked from the original:

[http://fightthenewdrug.org/porn-ruins-your-sex- life/](http://fightthenewdrug.org/porn-ruins-your-sex-life/)

Scroll to the bottom and "click for citations".

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> Pornography is deeply connected with human trafficking, child molestation, pedophilia, ... and so on.. I was not aware of this whole pornography industry world..until i start to research myself.. i was shocked.

How far it goes? Pedophilia will soon be legal. Don't believe me? Please go, and do research yourself. you will be shocked what is happening there. Pedophile political parties and lobists are _everywhere_.

</comment><comment><USER7> This reminds me of a piece someone wrote (sorry, can't remember the source) about how to talk about porn with his teenage son. His point was "porn creates unhealthy expectations about what relations should be. I don't say that watching porn is unnatural or bad, but it is bad for you _at this point in your life_ ".

It seemed to me a wise way of focusing on the subject.

</comment><comment><USER8> I think that's the first time I've ever read a Catholic publication that I agreed with.

<comment><USER9> Probably because you haven't read a lot of Catholic publications.

I would imagine almost every HN reader would strongly agree with these for example:

Vatican U.N. Diplomat Warns Against Increasing Dehumanization of Warfare

[http://www.zenit.org/en/articles/vatican-u-n-diplomat- warns-...](http://www.zenit.org/en/articles/vatican-u-n-diplomat-warns- against-increasing-dehumanization-of-warfare)

U.S. denominations, key Catholic bishop advocate for open Internet

[http://ncronline.org/news/art-media/us-denominations-key- cat...](http://ncronline.org/news/art-media/us-denominations-key-catholic- bishop-advocate-open-internet)

The Church consistently advocates for protection of the environment, abolishment of the death penalty, for education, for research in medical and science fields, and so on. The Church doesn't fit into traditional labels like "right" or "left"; or "liberal" "conservative."

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> I am not a christian but I completely agree with this theory. Porn is indeed destroying it.</comment>


Show HN: newtab.com, an attempt to make the newtab page more interesting.  - <AUTHOR> http://newtab.com

<comment><USER2> Cool idea, but I don't like the comma between "new, newtab"... I get what you're trying to do here, but I feel like it's a huge glaring typo staring me in the face. I'm not well versed in English grammar rules, but I think it will be alright to omit the comma.

</comment><comment><USER3> Why would I give my email to a page where there is nothing written about privacy etc.?</comment>


Senate approves health care reform bill - <AUTHOR> http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/12/24/health.care/index.html

<comment><AUTHOR> And Obama is talking to the press at 8:45am EST, for those who are awake: <http://www.whitehouse.gov/live></comment>


More on Postgres Performance (2013) - <AUTHOR> http://www.craigkerstiens.com/2013/01/10/more-on-postgres-performance/ <comment><USER2> I think this might need a 2013 tag?

<comment><USER3> Good catch! Added now.</comment></comment>


Science-based tips to sleep better - <AUTHOR> https://nesslabs.com/sleep-better <comment><USER2> I know already all of the advice. Yet, I don't follow any of them. Maybe would be great to write an article about how to get rid of those bad habits :-)

<comment><AUTHOR> Great feedback! Making a note of it and adding to my list :) Thanks!</comment></comment>


Ask HN: Where to Practice Web Application Penetration Testing? - <AUTHOR> I am conceptually very strong in Web Application Security Concepts (OWASP top 10,SANS top 25 etc). I have practiced finding bugs in DVWA,Webgoat etc.<p>Is there any other place where I can learn Webapp Pentesting?I want to understand the concepts much more in depth by practice. <comment><USER2> [http://overthewire.org/wargames/](http://overthewire.org/wargames/)

is a great resource for learning basic pen-testing.</comment>


Ask HN: Where/how to buy Power8 Palmetto Customer Reference Platform? - <AUTHOR> The contact listed on Tyan's page (http://www.tyan.com/campaign/openpower/index.html) is unresponsive. Who actually got one? How did you purchase? Can I buy just the ATX board with the SCM and some RAM without the box? <comment><USER2> Palmetto is an old box and I would not recommend buying it. If it's possible to get Briggs & Stratton with only one socket populated that's probably your best bet. Otherwise look at Habanero. Resellers may be more responsive than manufacturers.

Considering that the processor costs over $1,000, trying to skimp on the case makes you look like you're not a serious buyer.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for the tip. The issue at hand is that as a developer, the box (and loud small fans) is just an inconvenience.</comment></comment>


I Quit My Job - <AUTHOR> http://nathanbarry.com/i-quit-my-job/

<comment><USER2> Are you familiar with Chris Guillebeau's blog(the art of non-conformity)? He has some great insights about being self-employed and the fear of change, especially for those who have a steady jobs/mortgage/kids/etc. I alwas go there for inspiration and reassurance when I need it.

<http://chrisguillebeau.com/3x5/>

<comment><AUTHOR> Yes, I read Chris' blog every Monday and Thursday. Even got a chance to meet him when he was on his book tour. Either way, he is a great resource. Thanks for posting the link.</comment></comment>