How an Optimizing Compiler Works - <AUTHOR> http://www.lihaoyi.com/post/HowanOptimizingCompilerWorks.html <comment><USER2> That is one thing I sorely miss in languages that aren't lisps. The first optimizer pass is source->source. In guile I do

        ,opt expression

And it prints the source code after a first basic pass of the expander and optimizer. It does constant folding, inlining, dead code elimination and partial evaluation (and some other things). Being able to inspect what guile does helps a lot with macro writing, and is just a generally handy tool.

It beats reading assembly (which is also available) any day of the week.

<comment><USER3> How does it do source-to-source while maintaining debug-ability? If the result of your partial evaluation is source code that is run then what happens when I set a breakpoint on a line that has been partially evaluated away? Is there some metadata that is produced alongside the source to allow that breakpoint to be applied to the code that has been optimized away and how does that work?

This is why optimisations aren't usually source-to-source - they need to include in the output extra information that isn't normally representable in source code. Another reason is that compiling to a lower-level representation gives you more power - when I partially evaluate I gain extra information such as that an add operator will not overflow, and I want to include that valuable information in my output even if there is no no-overflow add operator in the source language.

<comment><USER2> This is not done over regular lisp lists, but over scheme syntax objects that retain the original source info.

Those syntax objects are also the basis of the hygienic macro systems in many schemes (at least ones using syntax-case) so that macros also benefit from that information.

The lisp source representation is already an AST, so these kinds of transformations are trivial.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> This is good, but I'm surprised at the assertion that "We can see that the function is pure, and evaluate the function up-front to find ackermann(2, 2) must be equal to 7". I don't know of real-world compilers that would do this[1], since even pure functions can take arbitrary amounts of time to evaluate at compile time. The Ackermann function in particular is famous for its complexity -- it was _constructed_ for complexity.

In the particular case of ackermann(2, 2) you should be able to do it with a moderate number of inlinings, but I don't think compilers often bother to inline more than one level of a recursive function.

[1] Of course you can force compile-time evaluation of code in some languages, like with Lisp macros or C++ templates. But that's not what's happening here.

</comment><comment><USER5> Have I not drank my coffee today or does the 'multiplied' value in the strawman program never change?

It starts at 0 and keeps multiplying itself with integers, which should always result in 0.

EDIT: My bad, it is explained after the code snippet, but not immediately after so I didn't catch it at first.

<comment><USER6> From the article:

> multiplied does not: it starts off 0, and every time it is multiplied via > multiplied = multiplied * count it remains 0.

The article then goes on to use that fact for some optimizations.

<comment><USER5> Yeah haha, caught it just after I wrote my comment. IMO, I expected the author to talk about that right after the snippet, as it was the first thing that stuck out.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Slightly off-topic, but does Java have standalone (without a class) functions now? He said he was using Java but I didn't recognize some of this syntax. I know it's been changing a lot the past few years (and it's been a few years since I've used it).

<comment><USER8> Nope. I think he simply used that notation to keep things simple/concise and focus on the important pieces.

<comment><USER7> That's what I was wondering. Odd decision in a post that works through code line by line and then translates it straight to bytecode.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> I was intrigued by the claim that a compiler which optimises Java code would identify pure functions and treat them differently.

Are there any JVM engineers that could confirm or deny this happening (in the real world)?

</comment><comment><USER10> The site goes into an endless reload loop when attempting to connect using HTTPS...

<comment><USER11> Are you using HTTPS Everywhere or some other similar browser plugin?

When I used HTTPS, the page loaded fine, but then reloaded itself using HTTP, but didn't loop after that.

OP, you may want to look into figuring out why your page reloads using HTTP after loading just fine with HTTPS.

<comment><USER12> It's probably due to this script tag:

      <script>if (window.location.protocol == "https:")
        window.location.href = "http:" + window.location.href.substring(window.location.protocol.length);
      </script>

<comment><USER13> But why? Genuinely curious, is there a real reason why this might be done?

<comment><AUTHOR> Honestly I do not remember at all why I put in that script tag. It was something to do with github-pages not supporting HTTPS properly in the past, the details escape me. I should probably remove it</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Yahoo Compliance Guide for Law Enforcement - <AUTHOR> http://cryptome.org/isp-spy/yahoo-spy.pdf

<comment><AUTHOR> <http://cryptome.org/0001/yahoo-cryptome.htm></comment>


Anki is shutting down after raising more than $200M - <AUTHOR> https://www.vox.com/2019/4/29/18522966/anki-robot-cozmo-staff-layoffs-robotics-toys-boris-sofman <comment><USER2> For a moment there, I thought they meant Anki the flashcard software.</comment>


Entrepreneurial Happiness Is Possible - <AUTHOR> http://venturebeat.com/2012/08/22/entrepreneurial-happiness-no-seriously-its-possible/

<comment><USER2> I saw this as a speech and this was my reaction.

For the first half I was thinking this was an inspiring story about an entrepreneur who realized he was taking things too seriously and was working himself to death, finding success in peaceful and carefree execution of an exciting idea.

Then came the part about how he got funded, and I came to realize this was more a story about an entrepreneur who won the startup lottery, is happy about it, and realizes that having money and relaxing with a well-funded team is better than working your ass off alone and not being able to afford utilities. Which is of course a foregone conclusion.

Thus for me the final act ruined what would have otherwise been an insightful tale of perspective.

<comment><USER3> Hey! Thanks for the feedback.

My level of happiness went up WAY before the funding event happened and is much more a result of my lifestyle changes and improvements in balance, clarity & focus then the other way around :)

The examples I gave at the end of "success" included working with amazing people, getting married and having a little baby boy.

Getting funding for my startup is at the bottom of my personal list and is in no way an indication of my personal financial situation (still having debt & working on a very low salary to be able to invest everything in my company and team). Not to mention anything about a "relaxing" new lifestyle :)

Being an entrepreneur will always be a stressful gig. I've just chosen to maintain a balance so I can do this for a very long time without killing myself and making everyone around me miserable :)

</comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> An entrepreneur's life is an emotional roller coaster. It is soo important to maintain perspective.</comment>


Rerun button for HN & Reddit - <AUTHOR> http://www.matthiasmcgregor.com/ideas/rerun-button-for-hn-reddit/

<comment><USER2> Interesting idea. I was trying to think how you'd implement this. "Rerun" would be a nice signal for repeat content, but there's also value in trying to understand of what it's a repeat and group those items together -- for example, the way Goog does story collections on Google News.

<comment><AUTHOR> Yes I wondered if you could make a rerun bot to complement this feature: it would match text in submissions and tineye images to come up with a % likelihood of duplicate content.

<comment><USER3> Ill add to this the idea that HN needs to be taken to another level. Its becoming the victim of its own success. Theres becoming more and more comments and more and more posts and you have to spend hours trying to parse through it all. With the comments when you have a thread with alot of comments its so difficult to follow them that it reminds me of debugging code. It all just becomes noise.

Whats frustrating is this is becoming a goto place for hackers and whatnot and yet its becoming more and more difficult to use by the day. In part because of what you are mentioning. Good threads get lost in noise. I sometimes click through to see whats on page 5 or 10 but it becomes dizzying after a while to do that.

I really hope PG who apparnetly is the only one running this eventually does built it into something more useable. For the time being he doesnt really seem to care as it was supposed to be just an experiment for testing a new programming language i think.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> I vote to run with this idea and see how its received. I think enough people would appreciate the value there.</comment>


Why building an API should be a top priority for your startup. - <AUTHOR> http://www.startupproject.org/2011/05/api/

<comment><USER2> A complete empty article which could be summed up by "make an API because it will be useful for your users, p.s. if your service doesn't need an API then don't make one".

</comment><comment><USER3> The API is the new embodiment of the "If you build it, they will come" myth, and this post buys into it big time.

<comment><USER4> And I once again fell for the myth that titles starting with 'why' and not asking questions are interesting...

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> Except in all the cases where an API doesn't make sense for your startup or isn't important at the beginning.

</comment><comment><USER6> And then when you've finally built an API you can distribute it on <http://mashape.com> to get some traction and five auto-generated client libraries for free</comment>


Ask HN: My house might burn down in the next 24 hours. Suggestions? - <AUTHOR> E.g. Paperwork not to forget, items to document, things to expect when dealing with insurance, etc. I'm looking to avoid stupid mistakes from things I just didn't think of.<p>I'll forward the discussion along to the thousands of others in a Facebook group facing the same situation. <comment><USER6> Make sure to take ID, debit card, cash, credit cards, smart phone, tablet, laptop, etc. Wear comfortable clothes, like sweats. Try to have a change of clothes. View this as stuff you may live in for a while.

Grab your homeowner's policy and any small personal items, like wedding rings.

It is cool if you can grab personal hygiene items, but those are relatively easily replaced. Try to take prescription medications. People sometimes wind up seriously ill a week or more after an evacuation event because they don't have their usual drugs and can't readily get more. In some cases, people die a few months later and relatives speculate that it is partly because they couldn't get a steady supply of their usual meds in the weeks afterwards.

Edit: After the fire, when you go back, take photos and call an insurance adjuster immediately. Do this before you try to fix anything or do any clean up. Cleaning up amounts to destroying evidence.

You can hire a public adjuster to file for you. Your broker, lawyer or a public adjuster are essentially the only people that can talk to the insurance company on your behalf.

(Edit: changed _private_ adjuster to the correct term _public_ adjuster)

<comment><USER7> Be careful of private (aka public) adjusters. They take a cut of your settlement. They can help you get more from insurance sometimes.... but if your house burns down with everything in it, you are likely maxing out. They can't get you more than you are insured for... but they will still take a cut.

There will for sure be people be swooping in like vultures after something like this to try to profit... Not all are bad, but I would just say, be careful.

<comment><USER8> > _maxing out_

Taking this off topic, but what point is a fire insurance if it can be "maxed out"?

<comment><USER9> As an insurance company, how can you possibly value and determine adequate premiums for a potentially unlimited policy?

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> As someone who's had all their stuff be burned, the one thing I would say is this - too many things that we saved were replaceable. The things that we missed were the ones that weren't. Even though you have an expensive fancy camera that you want to save, if that comes at the cost of leaving behind the quilt your grandmother made, leave the camera. Especially if you have fire insurance. Money can replace pricey things. It can't replace sentimental ones.

<comment><USER11> The two most important things to save are data and personal irreplaceable items.

Data is easily saved by uploading to cloud storage, preferably more than one service. You should already be doing this, Google Drive is 15GB free, Dropbox is 2GB free. Usually that's enough for the most important documents. Google Photos has unlimited storage as long as your pictures are 16MP or less.

I'll admit that I don't have an overview of my irreplaceable items. Maybe I should do a mental list when I get home today.

<comment><USER12> This is great advice, which surprisingly few people follow.

A few years back I scanned all of our personal records, tax returns, visas, dog vaccinations etc and created a dedicated Box account with a Google Drive backup. It was a massive undertaking at the time, but now whenever we receive something new it's a pretty painless task to scan it and upload it to cloud storage.

An added bonus is that after years of stockpiling paper we now have virtually no paper records anymore other than the things that absolutely have to be: passports, SSNs, birth certificates etc.

<comment><USER13> The moment there's a longer blackout, you guys are out in the open. Nice.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> "An employee from an insurance company describes in detail how to get the most out of your claim." [https://np.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/comments/43iyip/our_...](https://np.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/comments/43iyip/our_family_of_5_lost_everything_in_a_fire/cziljy3/)

Basically take photos of everything, if just to remember what will be lost so you can list it for the insurance later.

<comment><USER15> I have no idea how this works but aren't most policies exempt from force majeure like forest fires?

<comment><USER16> Most policies exempt "acts of God", but I think forest fires are firmly in the covered realm. A meteor hitting your house might be in the uncovered area. (They also exempt acts of war, so a north korean missile hitting your house would also likely not be covered.)

<comment><USER17> I just purchased some life insurance with exactly the North Korean scenario in mind and I specifically asked the agent about the acts of war exclusion. He told me the company doesn't have this exclusion, and most insurance companies don't have it nowadays, and if they have it, it only applies to military personnel. Of course, everyone who buys insurance should check with their agent, not take my word for it.

<comment><USER18> You bought life insurance to hedge against a nuclear attack? I suspect we will have other things than accounting to worry about after an exchange like that.

<comment><USER19> The prevailing assumption about nuclear attack is every weapon every manufactured will be simultaneously fired at op who is at ground zero. For all values of op across the entire country. And no other scenario can exist. Which of course is silly. The only wartime nuclear activity we've had on this planet wasn't a nuclear exchange, for example.

Most likely outcome is something like a single "dirty bomb" attack on a city 1500 miles downwind of where I work, unfortunately where a datacenter is located, resulting in me putting in a 36 hour work day trying to bring everything up at a disaster recovery datacenter 1000 miles away from both me and the attack, then on the commute home after 36 hours without sleep, I fall asleep driving and die in the resulting car accident, and my family won't get a penny because "clearly his death was a result of a N.K. act of war". Even worse not only might my family not get a penny WRT death but if anyone can sue anyone for anything, and my liability insurance is cancelled because of "act of war" then my family could end up quite destitute after a multi-car accident.

I wonder how many people had heart attacks watching the 9/11 news coverage a couple decades ago.

Or for any value of american response, a large fraction of the population would be very unhappy with the american response to a nuclear terrorism attack, regardless of the specific response, so my car parked downtown gets set on fire in the riots. That would suck if my car was temporarily uninsured because it was an act of war.

There's a lot of people paid a lot of money to deny insurance claims. See also, medical insurance.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> Pack a bag with a couple of changes of clothes, sleeping stuff, underwear toiletries, and just leave it in your car. If you have a pair of "outside" shoes (like hiking boots or something you would go camping in) put those in the car too. This is also for earthquake prep, you can run out of the house into your car and you're not going to spend the next week in the same clothes.

Then prioritize by things that are hard to replace that will give you access to other things. So passport, cash, flash drives, chargers etc. Those should be in your car ready to go.

Also think about how quickly you can get them out of your car (so if you have to transfer at a road block to a rescue vehicle).

Family Radios if you have them, extra batteries, can keep you in touch with your family and responders.

If you happen to have ammunition try to put it somewhere that it won't hurt anyone if it is 'cooked off' by heat. A friend of mine in the sierras keeps his shotgun shells in the root cellar for that reason.

EDIT: The ammo cooking off isn't going to kill anyone but it will startle them. And it can make it harder on fire fighters. So please if you have some, try to insure it won't explode.

Depending on how much time you have and what sort of tools, you can bury things that you don't want to burn. I have heard, but haven't tested, that if you bury something at least 12" below regular soil it will survive the time it takes a fire to move past. If you do it at the start (so the ground is bare on top) then you can avoid having any burning material over the cache.

<comment><USER21> > ammunition

Wat? Does US law not require ammunition be stored in a _gun safe_!?

<comment><USER22> If your guns are for home protection how on earth would you be well served by needing to open a second safe to get your ammo?

<comment><USER23> If you feel the need to have guns for home protection, it might be a better idea to move somewhere safer

<comment><USER22> Should I move to a fireproof home instead of own a fire extinguisher?

<comment><USER21> When was the last time someone went on a killing spree with a fire extinguisher?

<comment><USER22> I don't know. But there's been countless killing sprees with knives, and I have those in my kitchen drawer. Not even a locked drawer.

<comment><USER23> Knives, however, have legitimate uses. Guns don't.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> Gather all of your legal documents (deed to house, loan paperwork, birth certificates, pictures, social security cards, insurance docs, car titles, and any other documents and valuables), blankets, computers, 5 to 7 days worth of clothes, some food, water, drinks, snacks and other digital devices. Insure they are all secured in the vehicle you are going to use to vacate the area.

Also insure you have video and pictures of the now to include the inside and outside of your home, vehicles and land along with what the neighbors homes looked before you vacate the area.

Once you are sure you have everything, fill up on gas if possible and vacate the area and check the safety status of the area many miles away from the fire. To be safe go to a different county or city far away from the flames.

<comment><USER25> Take photos of everything and sync them with the cloud. Documents, hard copy photos, drivers licence, certificates. Everything.

<comment><USER26> Or just give a DVD with the photos and videos to your sister or parents, or send it to a friend in another city. Encrypted if you prefer. Uploading photos of all your valuable items and your identity documents to internet could lead to a different category of big troubles.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> Simple advice - if you have a hose around your house just spray your roof and all around your property for an hour. I heard someone in your situation (right now) who did exactly that. His house is the only one that survived the fire in his neighborhood.

<comment><USER28> Try to set up a sprinkler on the roof and just leave it... it'll go a long way to knock down any embers that may land on it.

<comment><USER29> This is specifically advised against in guidelines as it may reduce neighbourhood water pressure (and in some cases: supplies).

[http://www.readyforwildfire.org/Pre-Evacuation- Preparation/](http://www.readyforwildfire.org/Pre-Evacuation-Preparation/)

<comment><USER30> Yea, but many people don't have, or couldn't afford property insurance. Turn it on, and get out.

<comment><USER31> If you can't afford property insurance, maybe you really can't afford the home.

<comment><USER32> Most people on Earth can't afford a home.

<comment><USER31> It certainly puts things into perspective.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER33> Time to think about your fire plan. My home one is six pages long - <USER2> joking! I had to write one when my wiff wanted to run a small bus. from here. It's actually longer than my business one ...

Anyway, this is not a joke and should be taken a bit seriously. A 2l "dry water" fire extinguisher costs about £20 a pop. They work on all fires that are likely to be encountered in the home (not rated for flamable metal). They are quite new but are certified in the EU and maybe beyond. The great thing about these is that they are safe for electrical fires as well as paper etc. So you can replace foam and CO2 with one extinguisher. I was encouraged to look into these by a member of the British Fire Brigade. Put one on each floor.

As well as that, get an escape ladder for upstairs - ~£30-40 and a blanket for the kitchen - ~£5

Fire needs three things to crack on: Something to burn, oxygen, source of ignition. It's not rocket science. No one needs to know about your little fixation about removing the towel that your sig. other leaves next to the gas hob etc.

Keep safe kids!

EDIT: Just seen a few posts whilst I was pontificating here from people who really have to deal with fire as a way of life.

You have a lot of good advice here - heed it!

<comment><USER33> EDIT2: Shit - just realized that the OP is probably from CA or somewhere else prone to current forest fire.

<comment><USER34> Well, I certainly got a good laugh out of the perspective of some poor Joe fighting a forest fire in his backyard using a fire extinguisher :)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER35> Remember - you are not the only one evacuating. You'll have to compete for the roads, gas stations, hotels, and stores with everyone else evacuating.

Plan to leave way earlier than you have to so you don't stuck or have to wait behind everyone else.

<comment><USER36> Seconded. Some people wait way too long.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieTQvIdG- Vo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieTQvIdG-Vo)

</comment></comment><comment><USER37> The number one stupid mistake a person can make is not leaving when they have the opportunity. Just leave.

It's a fire. It can kill you. Nothing the internet says will make it safe. There is no trick. There are no hacks. None of your stuff is worth dying for.

Good luck.

<comment><USER38> Are you saying he shouldn't do all the preparation and simple insurance precautions first? Your message doesn't make that clear.

OP says they have time. It would make sense to do proper packing and the simple photos and videos of the house.

I doubt anyone is saying to do this stuff if you're in serious imminent danger. And overall following what local authorities are saying is a good thing to do too. Perhaps there's a reason OP shouldn't leave right now. We don't know what's happening there.

<comment><USER37> If a fire fighter says, "Your house may burn down in the next 24 hours," they are not opining that you should stay. They are advising you to leave. They just don't have the time and/or personality disposition to argue with someone operating under the effects of Dunning-Kruger syndrome when it comes to mortal risk.

The median time of "the next 24 hours" is twelve hours away. The first quartile is six or fewer hours away. The worst case is not a homeowner's insurance headache. It's dying. All of those are premises of the statement "Your house might burn down in the next 24 hours."

If a doctor told the OP, "If you don't do X, there is a good chance you will die in the next 24 hours," what priority should the OP place on X versus photographing their household's personal property?

<comment><USER38> You're making a bunch of assumptions from a vague OP post.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER39> Western Montana Reporting: Since we burned over a million acres this summer I can add that you should save all your receipts while you are out of your home. Things such as food and lodging are most likely going to be reimbursed by your home owners policy and isn't something most folks think of when this particular situation arises.

<comment><USER40> Remember, for most people on HN you have a perfect device for recording your receipts, and it probably auto-uploads them to at least one cloud provider as well.

Take pictures of receipts before you even walk out of the store, or on the passenger seat of your car. That may or may not be acceptable for returns, but for recordkeeping it's the way to go.

</comment></comment><comment><USER41> Turn on the lawn sprinklers and faucets to flood the house. Cut down any close trees. If you can, hose the roof. Keep windows closed and put flammables in the basement

From Reddit: omeowner turned his sprinklers on before leaving to escape a Kansas wildfire. He came home to the only house saved.

[https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/5ymk35/homeowner_turn...](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/5ymk35/homeowner_turned_his_sprinklers_on_before_leaving/)

<comment><USER42> The comments in the reddit post from professionals stated that the sprinklers were not very useful for that purpose and advise against it:

[https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/5ymk35/homeowner_turn...](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/5ymk35/homeowner_turned_his_sprinklers_on_before_leaving/deri42s/)

<comment><USER43> Not to mention that, if everyone does this, the water pressure will be decreased where the fire trucks need it. If the fire turns out not to threaten your property you'll feel like the worlds' biggest jerk.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER44> Have a quick look at [http://www.survivalistboards.com](http://www.survivalistboards.com), particularly the Manmade and Natural Disasters section and the Disaster Preparedness General Discussion section. There's a lot of collective wisdom on the site.

I would pay careful attention to the air quality. I would keep some eye drops handy and a wash cloth, handkerchief, or bandana that you could wet and cover your nose and mouth.

Check in with neighbors, friends, and family periodically as situation progresses. Let others know your plans.

Have your car filled with gas and ready to go. Be prepared for a minimum of 2 evacuation routes.

I would keep abreast of local news and probably set alarm clock to re-check every few hours during the night.

</comment><comment><USER45> Bring a warm jacket, OP. It's the last thing you think about in the summer heat, but if you somehow end up standing around on a lonely road in the middle of the night, it gets surprisingly cold, even in California! And take some pictures of your house the way it looks now. You'll really treasure them someday in the future, telling your kids, this is the house we lived in before the fire.

Stay safe, hope the wind is favorable.

</comment><comment><USER46> So sorry to hear this. As for documents, focus on those you'll need to prove your identity and financial position. Things that come to mind are:

Drivers licenses

Passports

Birth certificates

Social security cards (not technically ID but good to have)

Insurance documents (home, auto, health, life, anything else)

Property deeds or rental agreements for real estate, vehicles, any other major physical investments (own a boat? a tractor?)

Latest statements from bank accounts, credit cards, etc (digital copies will suffice - this is more about making sure you have account numbers, etc.)

Checkbooks

Paperwork from any corporate entities you may own or agreements such as stock option plans (digital may suffice here as well)

A digital copy (photos on phone if necessary) of your last year's tax documents

Photos of your last few pay stubs (if they're not already digital)

Any financial vehicles whose ownership depends on physical documents, such as bearer bonds

If you have documents relating to care of relatives (guardianship, power of attorney, DNR), bring those

If you have a will, make sure you have a copy (digital or otherwise).

Any other licensing documentation you might expect to want to refer to without having to ask the issuing body for a replacement (firearms licenses, medical licenses, marriage licenses, etc.)

Any documents relating to medical history or prescriptions

Contact info for everyone you know (this may already be digital, but some people do still keep Rolodexes or little black books)

Keys to any and all the things (shed, office, storage unit, safety deposit box, whatever)

You'll likely want to bring with you any laptops and external hard drives you own. If you're somewhat electronics savvy and have a desktop computer, consider extracting its drive too and taking that with you.

And of course, it's the things with sentimental value that are hardest to replace. You can always buy a new stereo system or replace a pair of jeans you left behind (even if you have to wear the jeans you did take until they fall apart and play music over a $20 pair of computer speakers while you save up to replace that tuner). You can never replace your photographs, your favorite stuffed animal from childhood, your grandmother's jewelry.

Good luck!

<comment><USER47> This might actually be my favorite post in the thread. It's a nice list and it doesn't require leaving the page to visit links. Having it in one spot is a handy thing, especially while in the midst of a stressful situation.

Panic will probably harm more people than fire or smoke. Anything to reduce stress is a good thing.

It is unrealistic, but it would be nice, to have everyone take some lessons in coping with emergencies. There are almost certainly local classes in emergency preparedness, and some varied levels associated with it.

So, in addition to the fine list above, I'd suggest that folks consider such courses in the near future - as well as taking refresher courses. My area has drills and training for citizen/volunteer search and rescue, more so than dealing with other disasters. They even offer free first aid training and classes for pay with some certifications as the result.

If anyone is interested, I'd check with your local fire department, EMTs, or police.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> As others have said, I would walk through the house with a video camera and get every inch of it on tape. Both as evidence as well as a reminder to yourself of everything you owned.

I would also take a look at your policy and look for things that are not covered under traditional home owners. Things that come to mind are jewelry, art, and sometimes computers. Jewelry especially being high value and easy to evacuate with you.

Best of luck. Will be thinking of you all.

</comment><comment><USER48> USPS will automatically put a 'hold' on your mail when the home is unsafe for delivery and you'll have to pick it up from the local PO. It may be best to forward it to another residence.

[https://www.usps.com/manage/forward.htm](https://www.usps.com/manage/forward.htm)

<comment><USER49> During Hurricane Matthew, Fedex delivered a package to my door while the island I live on was under a mandatory evacuation order. The package got destroyed. My advice is to contact the sender and have them put a hold on it.

<comment><USER50> At least according to UPS they will not deliver to places under evacuation notice.

[https://www.ups.com/us/en/service- alerts.page?id=alert1](https://www.ups.com/us/en/service- alerts.page?id=alert1)

<comment><USER51> > At least according to UPS they will not deliver to places under evacuation > notice.

That's UPS, not USPS. I wouldn't really trust either one of them, but if there's one I'd trust to do the obviously wrong thing, it's USPS.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER52> Hi, I'm in Mendocino County and we are concerned about the same thing. Here is the framework I put together yesterday, hope it can be helpful. There are some useful PDFs linked at the bottom of the document.

[https://pastebin.com/6eQNRkQZ](https://pastebin.com/6eQNRkQZ)

<comment><AUTHOR> That's a good list. Thanks.

</comment></comment><comment><USER53> Aussie here, lived in extreme fire danger areas most of my life so this is a situation I've been in several times.

0\. Yourself. If you die, all of the stuff below is largely irrelevant to you. Don't stick around, don't try to defend your property unless you've gone to great lengths to make it defensible.

1\. Pets. If anyone leaves a pet behind to be burned alive, they also deserve to be burned alive.

2\. Documents; titles, wills, deeds, insurance, medical stuff, tax stuff, identification, anything important. If you have a filing cabinet, consider just wheeling the whole thing out (if possible) and putting it in the back of your car, if there's a fire bearing down on you don't waste time sorting through stuff.

3\. 24 - 48 hours worth of supplies. Water is essential, also consider food bars, batteries, and of course any medication. In fact, I'd consider having a go bag of this stuff on hand and ready to go every summer if you live in a fire danger area.

4\. A radio. You need to know what's going on, and a radio is one of the best ways to do this during a fire.

5\. Medication, again. Don't forget your meds, or your families, or your pets.

Once you have that sort of stuff in order, second priorities;

1\. Get some photos of the inside and outside of your house. Insurance companies are scum and will try and get out of holding up their end of your policy however they can.

2\. Collect up irreplaceable stuff like photos, hard drives etc.

3\. Time permitting, move any fuel (as in stuff that burns) away from your house.

4\. Time still permitting, block up your gutters and fill them with water. Also seal any windows as best you can and move anything flammable away from them.

5\. As you're leaving, turn on all your sprinklers if you have them.

Ideally, you want to be out of there long before the fire is anywhere near you. We get told to make the decision to stay or go about 24 hours before our properties are threatened by the fire but it's not always easy to know when or if that's going to happen. But if you can see the fire in the distance I'd suggest going RIGHT NOW, and if you can see flames and they're reasonably close then it may be too late to leave safely.

<comment><USER54> > 3\. 24 - 48 hours worth of supplies. Water is essential, also consider food > bars, batteries, and of course any medication.

The region that's on fire is like an hour's drive away from Berkeley. Unless you anticipate camping on the freeway, I don't see how 48 hours of water is really an essential. The supply chain isn't in much danger except in the very local area you would be evacuating.

<comment><USER53> This is more blanket advice rather than anything specific to OP's situation.

In Australia we've had bush fires hit remote communities who've then been short on all sorts of supplies for days at a time. Not to mention in having an extra days worth of 'stuff' you'll have enough to go around.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER55> This might only apply for a select few members, but: pillow and plushies (if you are leaving in a car which, given the USA, I will presume you do). If you are accustomed to a given pillow you can get pretty miserable when your neck / back decides to rebel after sleeping on an unfamiliar one. And, again, this is personal but to some, plushies are nearly as important as pets to others. I am 42, male, and travel with a teddy bear whom I got in 1988.

</comment><comment><USER56> My house burned down one year ago (technically one year, tomorrow). The firefighters wouldn't allow me to go in and save things, but I snuck in when they were busy on my neighbor's house and was able to save my dog. Our cat, sadly, didn't make it. Neither did 99% of our belongings.

This how I would prioritize, based on my horrific experience:

1\. People (obviously). Your safety is the most important part.

2\. Pets

3\. Irreplaceable sentimental items.

4\. IDs, marriage certificates, birth certificates, passports, etc. I lost all but my driver's license in the fire and I'm still in the process of getting some of these documents replaced. This is particularly sucky if you are an immigrant like I am, where to get a new passport, you need a citizenship certificate, and to get a citizenship certificate you need a birth certificate, and to get a birth certificate you need a document from your country of origin, etc. It's a mess. Grab those documents.

5\. Irreplaceable items that are important, but don't necessarily have sentimental value. Some of your digital data might fit this category. Having a backup in the cloud is a great idea.

6\. Valuable items that are expensive to replace. Cameras, laptops, etc.

7\. Anything else you still have room and time to get.

The insurance company will likely make you go through hell to get your money. So take photos and videos of all your belongings BEFORE they burn down. If you have offline receipts, take them with you or scan them before you lose them. Online receipts are easier to find, of course.

Best of luck to you. I hope your house is spared.

</comment><comment><USER57> Turn off your natural gas line at the meter.

<comment><USER58> I would turn off the water lines as well. On the chance the house doesn't burn but is damaged, preventing water damage and flooding may make some property significantly more salvageable.

(Unless the house has sprinklers, of course, or other fire suppression, obviously.)

<comment><USER47> Fire suppression systems that I'm familiar with, which is absolutely not all, don't rely on an external water supply. They use stored water, often mixed with some oily substance that prevents corrosion, and are gravity or bladder fed.

Not that this helps, I just figure it is interesting and one less thing to worry about at a stressful time.

They usually don't require power or external water because those can be disrupted. I only know this because I've been involved in having a few systems installed and am not an expert.

<comment><AUTHOR> The house is only a few years old, so has the state mandated sprinkler system. Interestingly, it does get fed off the water main, which I know because it prevented me from getting a house wide water softening system. It's a 2" main because it needs to feed all the sprinklers, and it has a notice posted that it's illegal to impede the flow because of that (and a softening system that could handle that is much more expensive).

<comment><USER47> I'm sure they have a reason for it. There's no storage tank to supply it?

The systems I'm familiar with were all commercial, so that may be why I'm unfamiliar with them being fed from the main. I had to deal with getting a couple of commercial buildings done. I am not completely certain, but I think both of those systems were completely independent of the municipal water supply. I'm 99% certain, at least.

<comment><AUTHOR> > There's no storage tank to supply it?

Not that I'm aware of, which means I'm pretty sure not. It might be that at the house level, a single house isn't expected to draw so much water, while in a larger structure it's probably possible to overwhelm any feasible main that could be expected if a bunch of sprinklers go off. Even if the main can handle it, maybe there isn't a large enough connections to specific portions of the building from the main which causes water starvation. I imagine there's lots of insidious details when scaling to a large building which aren't immediately obvious.

<comment><USER47> In both cases I experienced, it was a big giant tank up on the roof of the building. It was separate from the fire suppression system in the server room.

I can see why there would be different systems and code requirements for residential construction. Come to think of it, whilst you could put the tank in an attic space - or use a bladder system, it would occupy a lot of space and I'm not sure residential construction would support the weight of the system.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER59> I noticed in the US that: They build houses with lots of wood and fill them with woody stuff. They build houses nearby lots of trees with no spacing between them.

This seems like a disaster waiting to happen, and well it happened multiple times?

Why can't the regulation do the following:

\- A mandatory buffer zone between the forest and housing.

\- Mandatory no wood/cement-only houses in zones of higher risk.

\- Mandatory no linked trees with your neighbors, so that the fire doesn't find a favorable environment to spread.

<comment><USER51> > Mandatory no wood/cement-only houses in zones of higher risk.

This isn't the only reason, but concrete buildings have a massive carbon footprint, much more so than wooden ones. For densely-populated areas, it's fine, but for single-family homes, it's incredibly environmentally wasteful.

<comment><USER60> Don't forget earthquakes. They're common in California where the wildfires are now.

I'd bet that (crazy made up number) 100x more people die in earthquakes in concrete structures than they do in the typical stick-frame single family homes that are common in the USA. Stick-frame houses simply don't "collapse".

But maybe a lot of the collapses I see on TV are because of either non- existent building codes or because nobody followed the code. Poor quality rebar and poor quality concrete?

But about carbon footprint for concrete, maybe it's not as bad as you say. If a concrete or brick structure lasts 100 or 200 years, might it not be better than a stick-frame structure torn down in 50 years?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER61> I'm from Australia. We've had some pretty bad fires here.

I don't have any particular advice on what to take, but I do have some general advice:

Don't fuck around.

Even when you know it's going to be bad, it's going to be worse. A fire will move faster than you think is possible and get hotter than you can imagine.

The silver puddle on the ground here is melted alloy wheels: [http://www.abc.net.au/news/image/286660-3x2-700x467.jpg](http://www.abc.net.au/news/image/286660-3x2-700x467.jpg)

This bit is worth watching. [https://youtu.be/dpvM6FoUwMI?t=5734](https://youtu.be/dpvM6FoUwMI?t=5734)

</comment><comment><USER62> Do you have an egress plan? Multiple routes planned out?

If you and the family separate for some reason (i.e. Work or grocery shopping) do other people have an egress plan without you? A defined meet up spot?

Know where the nearest large body of water is? If you are cut off from escape, it is possible to survive some fires from inside a body of water.

</comment><comment><USER63> I imagine you've seen it already,but ready.gov has a checklist: [https://www.ready.gov/evacuating-yourself-and-your- family](https://www.ready.gov/evacuating-yourself-and-your-family)

</comment><comment><USER64> Bdale Garbee: Disaster Recovery Lessons I Hoped I'd Never Have to Learn [linux.conf.au 2014]

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJcnllq3VYY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJcnllq3VYY)

The main item I remember was that his wife (who was not home at the time) had different priorities to what he did, so maybe ask the rest of your family.

\----

The Black Forest Fire started on 11 June 2013 in Colorado, US, and quickly set a record for the most homes destroyed by a single forest fire in state history... 511 homes were completely destroyed, including Bdale's.

Thanks to careful disaster recovery planning driven both by Bdale's history in the IT industry, and by the proximity of the Waldo Canyon fire less than a year prior, it was only a few days before the return of gag.com and related sites to the Internet began. But not everything went according to plan...

This talk will review the plans made and state of gag.com resources at the time of the fire, what went right and wrong during mandatory evacuation, and how we put things back together after the abrupt and dramatic change in lifestyle mandated by the move to an apartment.

<comment><USER65> I had the pleasure of chilling with Bdale about 16 years ago when I worked at Progeny. Besides being generally personable he has an amazing wealth of stories to tell (and has obviously picked up a few more since then).

</comment></comment><comment><USER66> Maybe more Mad Max than Santa Rosa:

If you have 2 non-EV cars, a way to siphon gas into the "good" car, before you leave, to top off the tank: [https://www.harborfreight.com/multi-use-transfer- pump-63144....](https://www.harborfreight.com/multi-use-transfer- pump-63144.html)

</comment><comment><USER67> I can't stress this enough, but you need to have a plan with your family.

When the fire is near enough to cause power outages, your cell phones may not work.

This site is -very- useful.

[https://www.rfs.nsw.gov.au/plan-and-prepare](https://www.rfs.nsw.gov.au/plan- and-prepare)

You may have something similar in your area.

</comment><comment><USER68> Sorry to hear about your predicament. It's terrible to hear some of the stories coming out of Santa Rosa and other parts of Northern California.

Lost our home to fire some years ago. Amazingly, some of my paper documents survived because they were stored in an under-bed drawer that filled with water when the fire department hosed it down.

I was thinking that maybe you could take heavier, hard-to-move small items (silverware or a china set), or bulkier items like books, old records, second- tier paperwork, or home decorations, and wrap them in garbage bags or place them in a container, place them in the bathtub (or large sink, or even a top- loaded washing machine) and then submerge them in water.

No guarantee that they'll survive, but they will have a better chance.

</comment><comment><USER29> This is among the better guides I've seen.

In addition to documentation and preparation generally:

* _Communicate and plan ahead with your family and /or household._ I would strongly recommend that if there is someone who can not (or will not) cooperate under crisis conditions, _evacuate them in advance_. Fighting with others in a life-critical situation is about the worst possible complication. (Dementia, personality disorders, age/disability, etc.)

* Have a bug-out bag ready. In your vehicle if at all possible. Take what you _need_ , and _cannot easily replace_. Leave everything else.

* Plan _multiple_ escape routes, and have multiple plans ready. A critical element of fire disasters is that normally-safe routes suddenly aren't (and are clogged with panicked people unfamiliar with the area).

* Set priorities _now_. Realise that if you need to take on passengers or change vehicles, you may not be able to keep everything you've put in your own car. I'd err on the sider of under-packing.

* Moving flammable items away from windows may help your house. Curtains, any lightweight or synthetic fabrics, especially.

* Do _not_ leave taps running, but if you have hoses _do_ leave them connected to spigots. Pre-damping surrounding areas may help, _but turn off water before you leave to preserve water pressure._ (There's more such advice in this link.)

* Have multiple copies of data, _and hardcopies of maps, plans, contact, and related information._

* Pre-arrange an emergency / reconnection contact, preferably _well outside_ the emergency area. Realise that phone and other comms services may be down.

* If you have pets, get them squared away, and perhaps keep them in cages ready to go until the danger passes.

There are numerous other steps that can be taken, though much of that should have been done a while ago. Those who _aren 't_ waiting for flames to march down (or up) the ridgeline might start thinking of those.

The Bdale Garbee list is a solid one as well, listed elsewhere.

[http://www.readyforwildfire.org/Pre-Evacuation- Preparation/](http://www.readyforwildfire.org/Pre-Evacuation-Preparation/)

</comment><comment><USER69> This happened to me years ago. The fire stopped a couple of miles short of our place luckily but we were in the evacuation readiness mode for a few days, flaming chunks of tree falling from the sky in the yard etc.

Basically I just worked my way down in value/density order: light, small, valuable things first into the cars. But first I drove to the ranch supply place and bought 15 garden hoses and sprinkler heads and set them up to wet down the area around the house and the roof. Again luckily the well didn't run dry. Then I photographed the entire house interior.

Good luck and stay safe.

</comment><comment><USER70> If you buy a lot of stuff on Amazon, your downloadable order history can save you a lot of time when you need to inventory your possessions for your insurance company.

(proflific Amazon/online shopper, lost home and all possessions in a fire last year)

</comment><comment><USER71> Read this, the best advice about insurance that I've read in any place:

[https://np.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/comments/43iyip/our_...](https://np.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/comments/43iyip/our_family_of_5_lost_everything_in_a_fire/cziljy3/)

To quote a bit:

Remember to list everthing-- even the most mundane fucking bullshit you can think of. For example, if I was writing up the shower in my bathroom: Designer Shower Curtain - $35 Matching Shower Curtain Liner for Designer Shower Curtain - $15 Shower Curtain Rings x20 - $15 Stainless Steel Soap Dispenser for Shower - $35 Natural Sponge Loofah - from Whole Foods - $15 Natural Sponge Loofah for Back - from Whole Foods - $19 Holder for Loofahs - $20 Bars of soap - <USER5> Lush - $12 each (qty: 4) Bath bomb - from Lush - $12 High end shampoo - <USER5> salon - $40 High end conditioner - from salon - $40 Refining pore mask - <USER5> salon - $55 I could probably keep thinking, and bring it up to about $400 for the contents of my shower

</comment><comment><USER72> Food/water, clothing(warm weather and cold), phone chargers!!! _if_ you have time ( _never ever risk for this_ ), mementos (not photos, they are a waste - I lost all mine to a fire previously),now only _if_ you have a _lot_ of time (do _not_ even think about it it you don't ). Hard drives -pca/laptops are a waste of time.

The most important rule. IF YOU CAN SEE THE FIRE AT ALL, GO.

I'm an Aussie, from the country, we saw a lot of fires when I was growing up. It moves soich faster than you can imagine. In good condition ditiona it can go faster than you can drive.

Be careful, gods speed buddy.

Edit, as mentioned : _if safe_ turn off gas.

2nd edit as techjuice said: legal documents and video, but this is the last thing. Documents won't help your family if you don't get out.

Look I'm not kidding about how fast fire can move, if you can see it, it's panic time.

Also, I emailed you, if you need to ask a question, drop me a email with your skype, I'll call and answer anything I can.

Edit: email I sent to op, for anyone else's info:

Okay, now I'm sorry if some things sound like I'm talking down to you. I'm just going to explain as I know it (also forgive typos I'm on a phone).

Driving through a fire- even on a road is not a plan. Ever. It starves the engine of oxygen and the vehicle will stall. Bad place for it. Only ever do it if it's an emergency.

Fire will move faster than you. Yes it takes days sometimes to move a few hundred feet, but Murphy is an arsehole and fire can move faster than you can drive, if the conditions are right.

Clothing; hot and cold, you don't know where you will be, pure cotton is better than synthetic, synth melt if your in fire, melting is worse than burn.(you have to take it _out_ of the skin if it melts).

Water, lots.

First aid kits: if you have it bring it, alovera plants are an amazing treatment for burns, snap a small part off and run the juice over the burn. _If_ there is a burn with a melt(eg clothing, plastic etc), _and_ if it's safe, do _not_ pour cold water on, it will set the melt, try and remove as much as possible (without touching the burn), before applying water.

I'll write more after this email. If you are forced to drive through fire, a)very. Fucking. Dangerous. B) all windows up, clothing(cotton) around mouth and nose. Be. Careful.(gods I hope you don't get into this)

Again. If you can see the fire, get. Out.

I don't have much more for during the fire, some people recommend sprinklers, watering roof etc, I believe that's an edge case. Yes if you have time, it may help, but there is no reason to risk your family for it.

Lives can be rebuilt, life cannot.

<comment><USER73> Also, if you have time, throw out all food in your fridge and freezer that you aren't taking with you. If your house ends up being fine, it may be without power for a long period of time and you may not be able to go back home right away. It will save you from cleaning up a real mess afterwards. Also clean your dishes if there is time, for the same reasons.

<comment><USER74> Put a quarter on top of a frozen cup of water in your freezer. If it's still there when you get back, you haven't lost power for a long enough time for your frozen food to thaw. If it sank to the bottom of the cup, toss out all the food.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER75> Don't bring shit you can buy back afterwards, bring all the stuff thats irreplaceable to safety and else the essential things like clothes and food. recharge your phone and push all your files to the cloud from your computer.

</comment><comment><USER76> Id cards

Bank code generator

University diplomas

Your external hardrive containing a backup of your most important files (you of course have this ready)

Any favourite item that you don't want to lose, hardcopy photos of loved ones or memories such as that.

Your favourite blazer.

</comment><comment><USER77> If you have time, video your stuff for insurance. Go through drawers, closets, boxes. Narrate it.

</comment><comment><USER78> Is this hypothetical or do you think it's unsafe for some reason?

<comment><USER79> They mention in the comments that they are in northern California where there are large wildfires burning.

15 people have died and hundreds of structures have been destroyed.

[https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/10/us/california- fires.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/10/us/california-fires.html)

<comment><USER29> Structural losses are now in the _thousands_.

"At least 2,000 homes and commercial facilities have been destroyed in the fires, which are burning in Napa, Sonoma, Solano, Lake, Nevada, Butte, Calaveras, Shasta, and Yuba counties. A fire station in the Fountaingrove area of Santa Rosa was among the ravaged structures."

[http://www.sfchronicle.com/news/article/Wine-Country- fires-W...](http://www.sfchronicle.com/news/article/Wine-Country-fires-What- we-know-and-what-we-12266476.php#photo-14317539)

<comment><USER79> Yeah, the NYT article listed 2,000 when I posted it but I have a style preference for describing small thousands as hundreds.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER80> This is not meant to be rude or upsetting. Please interpret this in a positive and optimistic light.

You're in a tough spot, when you have the time that is not better spent dealing with it, review your decision that got you into that tough spot. Be brutal with yourself, were the decisions reasonable? Did you make them actively or did they just sort of happen? Should you have prepared differently? Did you stop and consider it? Should you have done the research you're trying to crash with this question months ago at least? Did you make assumptions that have turned out to be horribly wrong?

Assess it from the point of view of how you can make these and any other similar decisions in your life, better.

Keep yourself, your family, any people safe first and foremost, everything else is just stuff. Even if it's irreplaceable for sentimental reasons it's still just a bunch of things.

Get everything else you can out of this. It's a major opportunity to review how you make decisions and why that can really help you improve that skill. Improving that skill is amazingly valuable to your family, friends and neighbours. You might tell this story to Forbes one day...

</comment><comment><USER81> Take pictures of everything you can. Get passports, birth certs, if you have copies of bills grab those so you can cancel or suspend accounts as needed.

</comment><comment><USER82> I'd try to take a cellphone video of every room in the house, opening closets and drawers as you go. Move at a deliberate pace; you will need to review the video and write down what you see in it should the house burn down, and sweeping too quickly through will make that difficult.

A 32GB thumb drive with scanned copies of your important documents is a nice- to-have if you can swing it.

I would only try to grab medications, three day's clothing, then irreplaceable items first, followed by what you have room/time for. If you have firearms, they are likely only covered up to $2,500 on a basic homeowner policy. Please be sure any left behind are _unloaded_ , the heat will cause them to discharge otherwise.

Anything that is essential to earning your living (tools, laptops, photography equipment, etc.) is high priority.

</comment><comment><USER83> Generally good advice but especially relevant here: pack a "bug out bag" which has everything you need if you need to leave at a moment's notice.

Here's the guide I've followed: [https://theprepared.com/guides/emergency- preparedness-checkl...](https://theprepared.com/guides/emergency-preparedness- checklist-prepping-beginners/#bob)

</comment><comment><USER84> I realize HN might not be the time and place but I wanted to wish you the best of luck. Hope all works out as well as it could.

</comment><comment><USER85> Grab all identification you can muster, and I'd say laptop, photos, etc. that has sentimental value - but don't overdo it. I suggest also calling your insurance company now, let them know what's likely to happen, get a case opened, that way when the house is toast, things will already be moving for you.

</comment><comment><USER86> For about 10 minutes I was just browsing comments here looking for why. For whatever reason I only thought of human threat as the possible scenario for your situation. Of course fires occur naturally too.

As for survival advice, I can cover the basics: Don't go die in a fire. :)

<comment><USER87> While I did not take quite so long, I came here thinking the same and expected to find some crazy story. It then dawned on me that in other parts of the world they have massive forest fires that can't really be stopped and wind forecasts tell you if your house is at risk days in advance.

I can not think of any situation where you would get any warning of a house fire where I live. It's either an accident, electrical fault etc, or arson. So you either aren't at home when it happens, or have to get out immediately. Best preparation I can think of is to place the most important documents in a fireproof safe or at a bank, and maybe have scans stored online.

</comment></comment><comment><USER88> Let us know what happened when you can. I'll be thinking good thoughts, fellow hacker.

</comment><comment><USER89> Google maps snapshot to get the scope of the lot for location and "foot print"

<comment><USER25> Pile rocks in the corners of the lot. Maybe record good GPS of each corner. If it all dissapears, at least you know where to rebuild the fences. Don't want to argue with your neighbours on boundaries.

</comment></comment><comment><USER90> Everyone else seems to have covered the bases, just wanted to say that I'm really sorry to anyone affected by the California fires and I hope you all come out of this safe and (hopefully) still possessioned and housed

</comment><comment><USER91> Make sure to charge all your batteries before you leave! You may be stuck without power, and it's helpful to have backup power banks and charged phones with you while you're on the road.

<comment><USER11> And use any low power/battery saver modes your devices have.

Most Samsung phones have an extreme battery saver mode, which can probably stretch the battery for over a week.

</comment></comment><comment><USER92> Maybe take pics of serial number of things, and also appliances and things you need to leave behind.

I'm really sorry, I hope your house is spared, it must be horrible right now worrying.

</comment><comment><USER93> If you are insured, take pictures of your stuff and if you have them the invoice for the most expensive items. Will help a lot to make a claim.

Also one thing I learned from my flat burning is that even if a room doesn't burn, soot is super corrosive and will spread everywhere. A brand new hammer I left on a table looked like a 70y old tool a week after the fire. So you should try to wrap any electronic you care about and you can't transport.

</comment><comment><USER94> If there are things that you can't take with you but you'd like to optimize the chance of saving them, consider putting them in the refrigerator/freezer (replacing the food and ice therein) and in the washer and dryer (closing all of their doors/lids). Though they'll get very warm or even scalding hot due to the metal of the appliance, the contents may be shielded from the flames.

</comment><comment><USER95> Photo albums and photographs. If they are all digital, you're lucky, take any backup drives with photos on them (i.e. photos of family and friends)

</comment><comment><USER96> Been there. Sorry I'm on a phone.... Take a million pictures of everything you own. Everything. Be ridiculous about it. Sorry if it goes that way.

<comment><USER11> Rather 100 pictures too many, than 1 too few.

</comment></comment><comment><USER66> Grab some basic tools: screwdriver, pliers, adjustable wrench, shovel, pocket knife, USB charger for car, tent.

And some bottles of water, and energy bars.

</comment><comment><USER97> After the initial evacuation, you will likely find yourself in an unfamiliar environment with nothing to do but wait. Spare some thought for how you'll fill that time, or else you may drive yourself crazy with worry.

When I ran away from hurricane Irma, for example, the tennis racket I grabbed on my way out saw more use than most of the things I brought with me.

</comment><comment><USER98> Make sure to take lots of pictures, not only for insurance/etc. but for sentimental sake. Of course grab all key documents like IDs/credit cards/etc., but spending some extra time on pictures of both valuables but also ones that you may look back and value personally over time can't be dismissed.

</comment><comment><USER99> Sentimental value items: Printed photo albums, trips souvenirs, gifts, kids favourite stuffed toy.

So easy to forget: a phone charger.

<comment><USER11> Any power banks you have, too. It's an extra full charge or two, which can end up mattering a lot.

Lots of phones have battery saving modes, I know my Motorola can stretch the battery for probably 3 days or so, on the battery saver mode. Turn the display brightness way down. Every little bit helps.

If course a lot of things are more important than phones, but communication should not be neglected.

</comment></comment><comment><USER100> Not really anything to add (never been in this kind of situation before), but I hope you and your family stay safe!

</comment><comment><USER101> Box up mementos, backup data, pull drives, receipts & model info of large purchases... travel supplies

</comment><comment><USER102> \+ You can buy all kind of cloths later. But take the ones that have special meaning to you. The one a guy gave you one time on your sabbatical trip, the jacket of your wedding suit.

\+ Make pictures of everything. Sync to the cloud. You might lose your phone later in the hassle.

</comment><comment><USER103> Cover your house with a material that doesn't burn and leave all the faucets open.

</comment><comment><USER104> Shouldn't it be possible to come up with a relatively low cost wall/wrap/something that could keep a house from igniting during fires like these that pass by fairly quickly and don't get super close?

</comment><comment><USER105> I read recently how modern houses combust in 3 minutes versus 15 minutes for old houses because of increased use of more flammable building materials.

Unsure how true this is, but it's possibly something to keep in mind.

</comment><comment><USER106> Set up live streaming GoPro.

</comment><comment><USER107> From my wildland firefighting fiancé:

Cut down trees (not supposed to have them within 200 ft of house anyway). Dig a fire line and cover the house with soapy water. Turn on sprinklers on the way out.

</comment><comment><USER108> Take photos/videos of your entire home interior. For insurance.

<comment><AUTHOR> Did that, but it was yesterday morning when it was a bit more hectic. Planning to go through again more thoroughly soon.

<comment><USER109> Record precise model numbers of the most expensive things you own, pictures of them help. If you put "42 in TV" for reimbursement, you'll get reimbursed for the cheapest one that can be found. If you put Sony XYZ123, you'll get reimbursed for that very specific model (always higher, sometimes very much higher)

Spend one minute just experiencing being inside your house before you leave.

Leave a note with your contact information inside.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER110> Dig a pit around the perimeter of the house if you have time, otherwise, burn a perimeter around the house in your yard to prevent the fire from reaching it.

</comment><comment><USER111> Will a fireproof safe protect your belongings in this scenario? I ask cause I bought over rated for a about 30 mins - 1hr burn protection. Thanks.

</comment><comment><USER112> Plug the roof gutters and fill them up with water. Close any vents with metallic tape. Remove any vegetation that's on the structure.

</comment><comment><USER113> Rent a truck and move everything out?

</comment><comment><USER114> Crazy idea: wrap it in tin foil. All or at least the sides from where the wind is blowing fire.

</comment><comment><USER115> Check maps and know where all the water bodies are in the area, and all the routes to get to them.

</comment><comment><USER62> Hey do hope you heck back and let us know how things went for you & your family.

<comment><AUTHOR> As of a couple hours ago the most threatening fire had been turned back with a backfire just when the wind shifted for a bit, so there's a reprieve on that front. There's another fire a few miles south, but it's probably a full day before that could develop to something dangerous for my location, depending on wind. There's another one still to the north end of town too.

It's all up in the air until they are all out. I'm relatively safe right now, but still paying attention to all the alerts as they come in. They just issued a new _advisory_ evacuation[1] in a separate part of town a couple minutes ago just in case conditions change.

1: [http://www.nixle.us/9MPXP](http://www.nixle.us/9MPXP)

<comment><USER62> Thanks the gods. I will have fingers crossed for you and the family.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER116> I'm really wondering here, how and why do you keep ow about this fire ahead of time

</comment><comment><USER117> How is your house? Is everything ok with you?

<comment><AUTHOR> Currently, yes. The scare that caused this post was handled by a back burn from the fire department before it got into too heavily of a populated area.[1] We're fairly safe as of this time, and most the fires area dealt with, thankfully. Thanks for checking in!

1: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15455577](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15455577)

</comment></comment><comment><USER118> Would something like this work? [http://www.geltechsolutions.com/fireice/product.aspx?Product...](http://www.geltechsolutions.com/fireice/product.aspx?ProductId=70&product=FireIce+HDU+Wand+Combo+\(4+Buckets\)&subsiteid=2)

<comment><USER66> Interesting technology... not sure why the downvotes. Although the price is insane.

<comment><USER119> We had a chance to deploy this product in an actual fire in 2009. Here's the post-mortem:

[http://blog.rongarret.info/2009/08/living-through-brush- fire...](http://blog.rongarret.info/2009/08/living-through-brush-fire-some- lessons.html)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER120> If you don't have it already see if you can sign up for fire insurance.

</comment><comment><USER121> coming from someone whose house has burned down twice, take photos of everything. You will need it for the insurance.

</comment><comment><USER122> take:

1\. paper documents

2\. electronic data

3\. jewellery

pretty much everything else is replacable

take video of walk through house, preferably slowly, it's easier than taking hundreds of photos

</comment><comment><USER123> Don't forget your towel!

</comment><comment><USER124> Bikes you can put in the pool.

</comment><comment><USER119> This is the blog post I wrote in 2009 after the Station Fire down in LA almost burned our house down:

[http://blog.rongarret.info/2009/08/living-through-brush- fire...](http://blog.rongarret.info/2009/08/living-through-brush-fire-some- lessons.html)

To which I would add, to be more responsive to the question: don't try to save anything that can be easily replaced. So: your laptop or a hard drive with a copy of your data, photos, original art work, out-of-print books that you're particularly attached to. Your passport. Maybe a few changes of clothes. That's it. Everything else is just stuff.

If there is actually a fire nearby, don't waste time, _especially_ if it's windy. If the wind is calm then you might have some time, but if it's blowing, just get as far away as fast as you possibly can. A wind-drive fire is not to be fucked with.

If you're interested, here are the live-blog entries I wrote during the fire:

[http://blog.rongarret.info/2009/08/going-to-be- interesting-n...](http://blog.rongarret.info/2009/08/going-to-be-interesting- night.html)

[http://blog.rongarret.info/2009/08/dodged- bullet.html](http://blog.rongarret.info/2009/08/dodged-bullet.html)

[http://blog.rongarret.info/2009/08/turn-for- worse.html](http://blog.rongarret.info/2009/08/turn-for-worse.html)

[http://blog.rongarret.info/2009/08/evacuated.html](http://blog.rongarret.info/2009/08/evacuated.html)

[http://blog.rongarret.info/2009/08/out-of-frying- pan.html](http://blog.rongarret.info/2009/08/out-of-frying-pan.html)

And the denouement:

[http://blog.rongarret.info/2009/08/reflections-on- fire.html](http://blog.rongarret.info/2009/08/reflections-on-fire.html)

Here's the TL;DR quote:

"I think if you're going to live anywhere near the mountains in SoCal you have to make your peace with the fact that your house might burn down some day and there will be nothing you can do about it. Accordingly, the best thing you can do is to figure out well in advance what stuff in the house really matters to you, and have a plan for getting that stuff out of the house, storing it somewhere safe for a while, and then putting it back, either in the same house or a new one that you build after the old one has burned down. Making that inventory was not part of our advance preparation, and that was a huge mistake. We found ourselves trying to decide under pressure what we wanted to save. And it turned out that some of those things -- mainly artwork -- wouldn't fit in our cars."

Good luck to you. We were thinking of moving up to Santa Rosa ourselves last year and decided against it. Never dreamed this could happen there.

</comment><comment><USER125> Only save lives, GET OUT

</comment><comment><USER126> With all these forest fires, has anyone tried to ascertain the cause of these fires?

</comment><comment><USER127> Stop using plastics!

</comment><comment><USER128> get a lumberjack to fell the trees around your house and dig a moat

</comment><comment><USER26> make a fire break

</comment><comment><USER30> Everyone gave good advice.

I think about the way Insurance companies have used these rare events to raise rates, and cringe.

I think about all the people who couldn't afford property insurance, and cringe.

(If it was my house, I might put a sprinkler on the roof, and turn it on. I would nail the sprinkler head to the roof. Then again, they say it will lower the water pressure to the fire hydrants in some areas.)

</comment><comment><USER129> Call the fire department.

</comment><comment><USER130> call the Fire Department.

<comment><USER50> I think in this case they already know and are doing everything they can to save people's lives and try to stop the fires.

</comment></comment><comment><USER131> can u move it ?

</comment><comment><USER132> Double your contents insurance

</comment><comment><USER133> Probably, don't live in a desert... Assuming you're near CA. I mean there are places in the USA to live with less taxes, less laws, less people, and lower cost of living.

<comment><USER50> FYI Santa Rosa gets over 30" of rain per year, its hardly a desert. Happens to get dry in the summer. Maybe Houston is better, less taxes, less crowded, lower cost of living and not a desert?

<comment><USER134> I live just outside of Houston. We will have flood-damaged household belongings in piles along our streets for the next eighteen months at least. They pick up the trash with a front-end loader right now.

That said, my aunt and cousins are about 3 miles from the evacuation zone in Santa Rosa.

Sometimes you get whacked in the head right after the bus hits you.

Thanks to all for really great info and suggestions. I'm sending the info to my cousins and keeping a copy for the next hurricane.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER135> Consider looters and how to protect your property, place a sign with dangerous dog inside, if you can rig up something to play barking sounds that would be ideal, but obviously other priorities.

Render large expensive items temporarily useless - if example maybe you can't take your new 50" TV but maybe remove one of circuit boards on the connector panel, same with washing machines on control panel, expensive juicer (just a difficult to replace small part), and so on. Power tools? Heavy and more difficult but hide them at least.

<comment><USER136> Seriously? We're talking about fire here, and in case you hadn't seen, take a look [0]. There's nothing left after it passes through. Nothing.

[http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/California-fires- aerial-p...](http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/California-fires-aerial- photos-of-wine-country-12264966.php)

<comment><USER135> Not familiar with the area, the OP says 'might', not 'will', if the fire doesn't pass through then you've got a lot of empty houses and emergency services with attention diverted elsewhere. If looters aren't near and ready to take advantage should the fire miss certain areas I'd be very surprised.</comment></comment></comment>


California's Underwater Forests Are Being Eaten by 'Cockroaches of the Ocean' - <AUTHOR> https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/22/climate/kelp-climate-change-california.html <comment><USER2> Basically we killed all the things that kept these purple urchins in check (otters and big starfish), so purple urchin population was able to grow unchecked and it devoured all the kelp. Now we blame climate change. Seems like we screwed this one up a long time ago.

<comment><USER3> Are these things edible, and good quality?

Can we serve this urchin on a rice ball as uni sashimi?

<comment><USER4> I don't know the answer to your question.

I just wanted to point out that I appreciate this comment because it recognizes the easiest way to get a pest problem under control is for humans to consume it in vast quantities.

If the answer to your question is "yes", and in fact if they are even delicious, then we'll have those urchins extinct in no time.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> What a shitty website. Can't even get the page to load without the text shifting and disappearing.</comment>


Has J.K. Rowling figured out a way to break our cancel culture? - <AUTHOR> https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/has-jk-rowling-figured-out-a-way-to-break-our-cancel-culture/2019/12/31/10798748-2bf3-11ea-bcb3-ac6482c4a92f_story.html <comment><USER2> The key is to never apologize. As soon as you try to negotiate with the mobs or beg for forgiveness, they know they have you and your livelihood/job will soon be gone.

It's reminiscent of 1984, but Fahrenheit 451 also seems to be a blueprint for where are society is headed: It's not the government that creates a dystopian society, it's us.

<comment><AUTHOR> The thing is that some people can afford to never apologize, and some can't. Rowling is definitely in the can category.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> > I grew up as a trans child reading your books as an escape. I would often > pick out names from characters to give to myself, before I ever felt > comfortable in who I was. This decision, to support people that hate me, and > want to do me harm. It brings me to tears... Why. Why?

Some of the replies to Rowling's tweet are surreal - not wanting to see someone fired is framed as some horrible attack. There's no distinction made between Rowling opposing the firing, and trans people being hunted for sport on Hogwarts. Equivalent to a libertarian saying "A 1% income tax to fund the police? It breaks my heart to learn you'd send business owners like myself to starve in Siberia."</comment>


Tell HN: How I pivoted or: please review my startup redux.  - <AUTHOR>

A while ago I posted on HN [1] about my film/tv show/video game recommendation app called Archfinch [2]. It wasn't received well and it didn't even make it to the front page. I was a little disappointed that fellow HNers didn't care about my app and that no blogs wanted to write about me since I was overshadowed by a similar app a month earlier (which at the time I didn't know about). But such is life and I hacked on.
I tried a few ways to advertise around, but I noticed a common trend: some people naturally bounced, others liked the site enough to rate dozens of things, I got some nice emails from users who liked Archfinch a lot but retention was very low. To my amazement of people who rated anything at all, the average rating count was high:

    avg    |  stddev
  <comment>---+</comment><comment>----
    60.943 |  68.147
 Clearly I was doing something right. But there was no way I could keep people based on movie recommendations alone -- people don't need that kind of service often, and by the time they do, they will have forgotten about Archfinch.
I implemented something I planned to do 'in the future': fresh links, HN/reddit-style, with a twist: you get personalized link recommendations. This seems to work well so far, people are coming back for more. And it has a chance to work -- reddit, Digg, etc. have all succeeded in the past and people need their daily fix of links.
In theory, link recommendations could be the end to the 'eternal september' syndrome that all such websites suffered in the past: the algorithm could recommend cat pictures to the masses and awesome links to people like us. Time will tell however.
Some of you mind find this boring but personally I like reading about people's mistakes and their subsequent analysis so maybe some of you will find this interesting as well.
If you feel like checking out Archfinch [2], feedback is very welcome, either here or at firstname.lastname@example.com, I read (and try to respond to) all emails.
References:
[1] - http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1601930
[2] - http://archfinch.com/ </comment><comment><USER3> This might sound harsh but I hope it's useful.

The landing page is terrible. Before I can make head or tail of what this site is, you are telling me I've been logged in as a temporary user, I might lose my data yada yada. What data? What are you talking about? Do you mind introducing your site first?

You need a simple one-liner describing what or who your site is for.

Next, please don't use plain text links for films. Movie posters exist for a reason. You need images asap. Engagement will shoot up. The same goes for users.

Why are you hiding your rate buttons? You know hover doesn't work on touch devices, right? Even when they are visible, they are too faint. And too complicated. Don't make people think if a film is 1 to 5. Everyone's now used to Like or Dislike. Just keep it simple.

Lastly, on a meta level, when you are looking for advice on your app or startup, you should always first search HN for advice given to other people with similar ideas. For example, a quick search for your case brought these up:

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2253574> for <http://www.subzin.com/>

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=519649> for <http://www.greatmovieexperiment.com/>

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1767309> for <http://watchth.is/>

Good luck!

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for the feedback, it's indeed useful and not really harsh.

The one-liner used to be there, but I removed it, forgetting that not everyone knows what it is. See, this is why getting feedback from strangers rocks.

I need to definitely do something for touch devices somewhere along the way. I like the way they hide right now because it makes the site much less cluttered. I might experiment with this though.

One thing I will fight until the bitter end is the Like/Dislike thing. I'm using the site personally as a catalog of things I've seen in my life, having just Like/Dislike would feel wrong (Pulp Fiction and Valkyrie hardly deserve the same rating). I might make the scale optional (for "power users") or something.

In any case, thanks!

<comment><USER3> Ok, then at least make it more interesting. How about Love, Like, Meh, Hate?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> I think a good start would be a phrase explaining what service Archfinch provides. I felt like you should greet me with a phrase about your service. "Archfinch 'find what you like'" seems to sum up the site in four words. The service you provide to me are the recommendations, I pay the system with my ratings for those recommendations.

People like to accomplish tasks. Your initial list of movies to rate is too long. I'd get that down to five. You can continue to ask about other movies but you need to let people feel like the system has enough information after five (maybe ten). The site is boring after rating a list of fifty movies - <USER2> want the recommendations!

You must have a "haven't seen it" option.

I ventured into the lists page and was greeted with a "We don't know you well enough to recommend you anything." I may be willing to fill out the information that you need so that you can give me a recommendation but I want you to lead me there...where do I go to give you the info you need? (link?)

What is the Pics link about? Why are those pictures recommended for me? Are they supposed to be?

"Save your data by creating a Permanent Account" ...sounds serious, like I'm buying a burial plot. Why not just "save your data by creating an account?"

Just my .02

Keep chuggin, I think you could have something you just need to polish it.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for the feedback!

>I think a good start would be a phrase explaining what service Archfinch provides. I felt like you should greet me with a phrase about your service. "Archfinch 'find what you like'" seems to sum up the site in four words. The service you provide to me are the recommendations, I pay the system with my ratings for those recommendations.

Right, I had something like this, removed it along the way forgetting not everyone knows Archfinch like I do. Definitely a mistake that needs to be corrected.

As for the rest, all great points, thanks.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> It's not clear to me why I would be interested in Archfinch over, say, Reddit.

And the movie recommendation functionality is totally gone now?

As you were explaining your pivot, I thought you were saying that you were going to add a hn-style "hotness" feed to a movie ranking site, which I thought was a genius idea. Basically, people would write pitches for their favorite movies, why they're awesome, and then everyone would up/down vote them, and you'd get a feed of what rises to the top. It'd be even better if it was personalized based on your taste graph, but that wouldn't be necessary to start.

So, I don't know... different kind of idea than what you're doing, but it seems sort of interesting to me.

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> Clickables:

[1] - <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1601930>

[2] - <http://archfinch.com/>

</comment><comment><USER6> I like it, generally speaking. I played around with it a bit, and here are my thoughts:

\- The site needs some character. The logo has some, but isn't enough; It's REALLY neutral to me, and I'm a pretty big fan of minimalism.

\- There's no "I haven't seen it" option, or "Let me rate this later". Which means that when I got to the end of the list of things I could rate, I was at a loss as to what to do next. Also, it bugged me that I couldn't make 'Cloverfield' go away, even though I've never seen it.

\- What do I get out of it as I rate them? I certainly don't mind rating these things to help evaluate, but ... is there ANY reason I might come back and do this again later?

\- The lack of registration option is a little confusing. I hit the home page, rated a few things, I see a log OUT option at the top, which is a little quirky, and I see a log IN -- oh, never mind, it was in the middle. If that's the call to action, it should be more pronounced, I feel like.

<comment><AUTHOR> First of all thanks for checking it out.

> The site needs some character. The logo has some, but isn't enough; It's > REALLY neutral to me, and I'm a pretty big fan of minimalism.

I have a finch-like character (it's a kind of bird) in mind that I plan to put in a few places to add some character, but I wanted to get the site out first before that.

> There's no "I haven't seen it" option, or "Let me rate this later". Which > means that when I got to the end of the list of things I could rate, I was > at a loss as to what to do next. Also, it bugged me that I couldn't make > 'Cloverfield' go away, even though I've never seen it.

There's a lists feature that lets you add to 'ignored', but perhaps it should be more pronounced than that.

> What do I get out of it as I rate them? I certainly don't mind rating these > things to help evaluate, but ... is there ANY reason I might come back and > do this again later?

Ah right, there used to be a landing page with an explanation ("the more you rate, the better the recommendations") but I lazyfied the signup process so I forgot to stress that. Noted, thanks.

> The lack of registration option is a little confusing. I hit the home page, > rated a few things, I see a log OUT option at the top, which is a little > quirky, and I see a log IN -- oh, never mind, it was in the middle. If > that's the call to action, it should be more pronounced, I feel like.

I'll figure something out regarding that.

Once again thanks for the feedback.</comment></comment>


CO2 Emissions by Country - <AUTHOR> https://json-csv.com/co2-emissions

<comment><AUTHOR> The chart shows a comparison of CO2 emissions between 2000 and 2011 for each country.</comment>


Plants 'seen doing quantum physics' - <AUTHOR> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-22996054

<comment><USER2> "Plants seen exploiting quantum physics" or "Quantum physics seen operating on plants" might be more accurate but less attention-seeking.</comment>


The Monospinner: world's mechanically simplest controllable flying machine - <AUTHOR> http://robohub.org/the-monospinner-worlds-mechanically-simplest-controllable-flying-machine/ <comment><USER2> Really clever design - love the maths behind it.

</comment><comment><USER3> One could make powered and guided boomerangs.</comment>


Big firms in the US have never had it so good. Time for more competition - <AUTHOR> http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21695392-big-firms-united-states-have-never-had-it-so-good-time-more-competition-problem <comment><USER2> >Unfortunately the signs are that incumbent firms are becoming more entrenched, not less. Microsoft is making double the profits it did when antitrust regulators targeted the software firm in 2000.

I couldn't find any data on it, but do they mean net profits, or earnings per share? Did they adjust for inflation? MS was very successful with the xbox consoles. How would I tell the difference between a company becoming more entrenched and making a good bet on a product (i.e. apple and the iphone)?</comment>


Contract coding conundrum - <AUTHOR>

Hi guys,
I am getting into contract programing and I have a problem. Supposing I quoted a price (via email) and the guy accepts, then I realise the work is harder than I thought and the code could be licenced.
Is it legal to say "Sorry I've changed my mind, I'm coding this on my own now but I'll give you a free copy when it's ready."
If not, is it legal to say "Sorry something has come up and I don't want to work with you any more" but then code it for myself?
I have signed no contracts, spoken on the phone once and exchanged a few emails. I've barely started the code and we first emailed about a week ago. <comment><USER2> Good forum on the topic: [http://stackoverflow.com/questions/900803/cost-and- ownership...](http://stackoverflow.com/questions/900803/cost-and-ownership-of- source-code-as-a-freelance-programmer)

I believe in CA the following holds true (from a comment in the above thread) but am not a lawyer and DO NOT KNOW FOR SURE: "The normal situation with freelance programming is that the client will own the source code. That being said--depending on jurisdiction and many other factors--if it's not specified in any contract it will often default to the freelance programmer."

</comment><comment><USER3> You can't call it a "contract programming" situation if there is no contract. What you are admitting to is quoting a price in haste (to get the job?) and getting it wrong. I would never provide a quote until the client has provided a specification. If they can't produce a spec, then I write one for them on a T&M basis and suggest that the client invites others as well to quote on doing the job. The spec then becomes part of the contract.

What the client does with your program once completed should be of no concern to you. You wrote it for them and it's theirs to use or not use as they please. As ninjaa points out, you may or may not have intellectual property rights to the program depending on the jurisdiction in which the agreement was reached.

If you accept no money and reneg, then your client doesn't have much to grouse about except for the wasted time. It's obvious that your client wasn't being professional either since they didn't demand a written contract. You could probably both put this episode behind you and chalk it up to experience.

<comment><USER4> It all depends on how the email was worded. If the email said "How much will x website/photoshop killer cost?" and the guy said, "I would say about $xxx" then there is no contract. But if the emails read more like, "How much would you charge for x." and he replies, "oh I would do it for $xxx." and the client says, "OK." This would result in a contract in CA and probably in others. Even without that second exchange of emails a verbal contract is still a contract so you need to be careful of what you agree to do.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> Break the project into milestones and give a tentative price for the first two or so milestones.

You can quickly figure out who is a dick and who is not wrt to contract employers based on how much they talk about the project, how involved they are and how bad they want it. There are people out there who fancy themselves software "owners" and are just in it for the sake of saying "my programmer .." in polite conversations. Avoid people with Big Ideas and work with people who want a problem solved.

Also beware of wannabe software vendors and resellers; people who will pay you to write software they intend to resell, and not use directly. Those tend to over think it and they're swayed by the slightest shift in trends; a blog post they read somewhere can bring the project to a halt. It's good to be paid, but it's even better to know your work is being used somewhere by someone, instead of it sitting in someone's My Documents folder.

</comment><comment><USER6> You're asking two different questions: (1) what to do when discovering that you underestimated the work involved in a project; (2) can you legally deceive and steal.

The only answer that covers both of these is: think long and hard about what kind of person you want to be. This isn't a "contract coding conundrum" at all.

</comment><comment><USER7> I see a lot of good advice here, but what sticks out and hasn't been addressed is that the OP is essentially asking, "Can I steal this client's idea?"

If you chose to do this OP, I hope it is the best idea ever -- because if it's not, you've probably sunk your career as a contract programmer, so I hope you have a plan B in the wings.

</comment><comment><USER8> I think he's asking if it's OK to steal the guy's idea and do it on his own, because he wants to license it himself.</comment>


Shared scooters don't last long - <AUTHOR> https://oversharing.substack.com/p/shared-scooters-dont-last-long <comment><AUTHOR> Louisville, Kentucky data indicates scooters last about 1 month.

Average 3 rides per day, so scooter is idle 90% of time.

Recharging is a massive 40% of ride cost. Credit card another 10%.

So it is currently a huge, lasting money pit. But it can improve operating metrics, and become massively profitable.

Enter VC with preferred share clauses..

</comment><comment><USER2> Previous HN: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19261590](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19261590)</comment>


Why We Use Coding Challenges to Hire Developers - <AUTHOR> http://blog.statuspage.io/coding-challenges <comment><USER2> What a completely and utterly useless junk article littered with incredibly annoying SIGN UP NOW ads. Based on the site, here's what I imagine their actual interview process to be like. The first basic programming ability question asks the candidate to SIGN UP NOW FOR OUR NEWSLETTER. Its a fairly straightforward test, you just need to SIGN UP NOW, ENTER YOUR EMAIL IN THIS BOX PLEASE. Once the candidate has shown their ability to do this, they move on to a take home project where they are asked to deploy annoying pop up ads for startpage so they don't have to implement it themselves. So far, they've interviewed THREE candidates so they only ask you to sign up THREE TIMES when you visit the site.

What a trashy website.</comment>


Ask HN: So you've found an idea for a startup. What now? - <AUTHOR>

A designer, programmer and marketer found an idea they love for a startup. What should they do now? <comment><USER2> Found a startup :)</comment>