A Dad's Plea To Developers Of iPad Apps For Children - <AUTHOR> http://uxdesign.smashingmagazine.com/2012/03/12/dads-plea-developers-ipad-apps-children/ <comment><USER3> I'm curious: don't any other people here think 2-year-old kids shouldn't be playing iPad games _at all_?

I'm convinced that watching TV is harmful to a child's intellectual development. (And there's an established body of evidence to support that.)

As a kid, I hated my hippie Montessori teacher mom for allowing me only one hour of TV per _week_ as a kid in the late 70s and early 80s (elementary school; I usually chose the Duke boys, and later Knight Rider). But, as an adult, I cite it often as one of the things I admire most about the way she raised me (no limits on books, nor daytime outdoor play after school, nor building things), especially after coming to understand how much easier it is to set a precocious and hyper wild little monkey in front of the boob tube so the parents can get a couple hours of peace.

I do think video games (especially good ones) are probably much less harmful than TV, and that they do even have some net positives for the user, in terms of developing various human abilities (cognitive and otherwise). But isn't two years old too young? Shouldn't kids of that age, instead of learning in-game physics, be learning _real_ physics? Like with balls, marbles, and blocks, running and falling down, and not with animated honeypots and flying unicorns?

My own kid won't be here for a few more months, so I'm not preaching; just honestly asking. I know little kids _love_ iPad games... but they love eating sugar cubes, too.

<comment><USER4> > don't any other people here think 2-year-old kids shouldn't be playing iPad > games at all? > My own kid won't be here for a few more months, so I'm not > preaching; just honestly asking. > Shouldn't kids of that age, instead of > learning in-game physics, be learning real physics? Like with balls, > marbles, and blocks, running and falling down, and not with animated > honeypots and flying unicorns?

You are in fact preaching, just not from direct experience raising children.

Please do not give your future 2-year-old marbles to learn physics with. Choking hazard. Harder to swallow an iPad.

<comment><USER5> Our former 2 year-old and current two year-old have neither choked on their marbles. Why? Supervision. You play with your kids and then you can stop them doing stupid things that are going to cause them high-level harm.

The hard part I find is letting them hurt themselves as part of their learning.

Indeed our 2 year-old just used a kitchen knife (about as long as his forearm) for the first time a couple of weeks ago to chop the potatoes he peeled. Close supervision.

"He could swallow a marble", well yes, he could bash his brother's head in with the corner of an iPad, get hit by a meteorite, run in to a wall, drown himself in the toilet, etc..

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> When we developed Aeir Talk, an speech pathology app for children with Autism, we locked the setup screen (where parents can customize the cards, pictures, and audio) behind a nondescript "Setup" button in the title bar. When tapped, it does practically nothing: It changes to describe to parents how they can unlock the setup screen: "Press While Holding 'Please'", referring to a button on the other side of the screen that is part of the apps regular function. Compared to other touchable elements in the app, the button provides very little feedback, so kids largely ignore it. The gesture requires two hands, tapping two parts of the screen at the same time, so it's unlikely for children to end up in there by accident. You can see a video of this workflow at <http://aeirtalk.com/> .

<comment><USER7> I did something similar with KType (an iPad app to help people with speech and motor disabilities communicate better). To get out of the app's main feature - full-screen keyboard - you have to hold the four corners of the iPad screen at the same time. It makes sure the user does not inadvertently get out of the keyboard view.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> I think in app purchases for apps targeting users under 13 is a really bad idea. Even if there isn't some dark premise behind it, I feel like an asshole every time I tell my son "no" I wont buy you extra {whatever} for your game at just 2.99. Kids games should be reasonably priced(0-5 dollars) and not monetize with ads or upsells.

<comment><USER9> Sorry how is that even remotely reasonably priced? It has a limited market, that can't buy their product, that is hard to make engaging and appropriate. Either be willing to pay $15 a pop, be willing to accept in product advertising, in product upselling, are really basic (ie non custom story book artwork), or that they shouldn't exist at all. Frankly, sounds like you are asking just too much.

<comment><USER10> 15$ for quality product is ok. Chaptered games/applications (iWork etc.) are ok. ADs are not. IAPs are not.

This should be tattooed on every single iOS dev.

PS: I actually wish there would be at least few 30-60$ games in the store. And not those crappy ports of gamepad/mouse games (shooters etc.) with unplayable controls. Or some good, but very old, not so polished ports of ports of classic games (FFT). It would be nice to play some great western RPG, with interesting story (not that boring save the world stuff), it should be turn based to adjust to device controls, some good graphics (not like those Top games from store) - look up Bastion on the PC, THIS is how AAA iPad games should look like. And no sequels. Please.

<comment><USER10> Can't reply to the comment below. About "tattooed" word - this is usually called irony. And it is a common phrase about "remembering things", I don't see what's so bad about saying that.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> I LOVE the points made in this post. I would two other observations:

1) Make sure your app has lightening fast response for touch events. Kids are smart, they expect that when they click a button, something should happen. If it takes over 250ms, my kid thinks it's broke and will start clicking it repeatedly.

2) Always use "onTouchDown" instead of "onTouchUp" when handling simple presses. My kid doesn't always release his finger after touching a button and when nothing happens, he thinks he needs to touch the button repeatedly. If the developers targeted the "Touch Down" event instead of "Touch Up" my kid wouldn't have learned this behavior.

</comment><comment><USER12> I actually had to get a refund from Apple for an in-app purchase my son made while using Talking Tom Cat (I since deleted that app and turned off in-app purchases).

I've got two kids and what I would add to the observations listed in this article are as follows (these apply to any app that is intended for kids, but also apps where a significant section of the userbase might be kids - <USER2> example, my four-year-old is quite adept at Plants vs. Zombies, and given the depth of strategy utilized in that game I don't feel bad when he plays it):

1\. No part of the application should _require_ that you can read in order to use it or navigate it.

2\. Don't pop up dialogs that a child cannot understand. For example, I watched as my child, while using an app intended for children, pressed "OK" on a dialog that asked if he wanted to turn on push notifications. That's just ridiculous! He'll press "OK" on any dialog because he just wants it to go away.

3\. This really applies to all applications, but it becomes very apparent when watching a child use an app: the most desirable menu items should be larger and/or differently coloured than the least desirable ones. I.e. "Play" should be a big, brightly coloured button, while "Settings" should be small and tucked away.

4\. Don't make it easy to do destructive things like delete accounts. This might seem obvious, but I have more than once opened an app only to find that my progress in it had vanished because my child had deleted my account (Plants vs. Zombies makes this too easy, for example).

5\. On any app that has the potential to be enjoyed by both kids and adults, consider providing a kid-friendly mode that makes the game easier.

6\. I don't know how difficult this is from a development perspective, but if possible, make the app resistant to having non-active fingers touching the screen while active fingers are attempting to use it. Kids will often grasp devices, especially phones, in such a way that fingers from (say) their left hand are touching the screen, and on some apps this causes them to cease responding to touch events from their other (right) hand.

7\. If your app produces revenue through advertising, it probably shouldn't be marketed at young kids. Kids will press on the advertising and will just get frustrated when they arrive on a webpage somewhere, and adults will eventually delete the app because we don't want our kids feeling frustrated.

<comment><USER13> A continuation of #7: I've seen ad-supported apps targeted to children that include kid-inappropriate ads.

I had a 7 year old recently ask me about dieting and weight-loss strategies because of an in-game "one weird trick to lose weight" ad.

<comment><USER14> I just follow the rule: no ad-based apps, ever.

If I can't buy it or get it free without ads, it doesn't go on the iPad (I test with my iPhone if I'm unsure), and thus my kid isn't exposed to it (device is locked down tight to prevent purchases/etc, and I sync the apps on there after they've been reviewed by me).

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> If your app for children includes in-app purchases I will delete it as soon as I realise. At present this is just a frustration for my 2 year old as he doesnt understand why the game is no longer on the screen, but as he gets older he is more likely to try and pester me into buying. Not Going To Happen, plus I will leave a 1 star review of your app based on in app purchases alone.

iPads and iPhones are not bought by children, they are ocassionally givent o children to use for a while, as such apps should not seek to bill parents because their kids pushed the worng button or I gave them the iPad too soon after downloading a new app (and thus entering the password).

<comment><USER16> You leave a 1-star review because you can't be bothered to do some research ahead of time? Or did you assume that a free app, that otherwise was of decent quality, should really be free and the developer should be making content for you and your kid just for the love of it?

In app purchase is a great way to let the user try the app before buying it. And there's a way to do it in kid apps that isn't unethical or taking advantage. I shudder to think of all the developers you hurt because you can't be trusted to use your ipad properly.

<comment><USER10> This is called "natural selection". You are currently observing an app-store customer in the wild, seeing its habits and preferences. You can't get another, domestic, customer because they die out in the cages from severe ADs overdose, so you are left with only two choices: 1\. Do nothing new; 2\. Learn how to interact with existing, wild, customer population, who, oh blasphemy!, doesn't like IAPs.

Your apps. Your choice.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> Spot on regarding the in-app purchases.

I have a rule of giving 1 star rating to any kid's game that has them _regardless_ of how well it's done and if my kids actually enjoy the non- gimmicky part. Milking parents by making their kids beg and nag them is an unethical way to earn money.

<comment><USER9> > Milking parents by making their kids beg and nag them is an unethical way to > earn money.

I believe that the primary way the market for children's toys and goods works, if you watch The Corporation they interview a psychologist that explicitly helps exploit this behaviour. So, you might find it unethical, but its the norm and avoiding it is like shopping for clothes that used no-sweatshop labour.

<comment><USER18> >So, you might find it unethical, but its the norm and avoiding it is like shopping for clothes that used no-sweatshop labour.

If he finds it unethical, it doesn't matter if it's the norm. He shouldn't do it. In both cases, there are clear and relatively easy alternatives.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> On in-app purchases:

We have an app that is targeted at kids aged 3-5 (I don't work directly on it). It is currently in the top 10 free education apps and regularly holds a spot in the top 5 grossing education apps in the UK (we currently only have UK audio). It has an average rating of 4.5 stars, with over 100 genuine 5 star reviews from satisfied parents.

The app is split into 10 topics, with the first free. The rest can be unlocked for $13.99.

It uses in-app purchasing as providing the app for free with the first section available to all is the best way we can show off our product. It isn't targeted at the kid, it is aimed at the parent of the child. In no way do we try and trick anyone into a purchase.

This approach has been overwhelmingly successful.

I honestly think the app would've got nowhere if we'd stuck it up there as a paid app for $13.99. We could have gone for separate apps, but that's much harder to maintain and market (trust me - the product I work on has over 100 versions on the app store, we're migrating to 1 with iAP).

</comment><comment><USER20> I really, really, really wish there was some way to disable the Home button on my iPad.

My 19-month old and 4-year old kids, who absolutely love to sit with me and play with the iPad, simply find it irresistible to press that button. And when we're watching a movie, its a sure-fire way to ruin the whole experience. If it were lockable so that it didn't do anything, they wouldn't press it.

Come to think of it, the sliding-lock switch could be used for so much more. I just don't get why I can't lock the touch-screen so that it doesn't react to things - okay I understand why Apple want to keep touch enabled at all times, but why can't this be an option? (Is it an option and I'm just clueless to know? No jailbreak-solutions, please..)

Anyway, that one issue is an almost definite deal-breaker for us when it comes time to have some iPad time. It doesn't take long before the kids lose interest, because they press that button, the app dies, and then they're in the home-screen game, where not much exciting stuff happens (unless they make the icons jiggle and press the little X's, then Daddy gets very excited..)

That said, I like this article - because I'm working on a game for kids too, and the point about the bottom area of the screen being a no-no for navigation buttons is a really good point. My kids have learned to press anything and everything they can, and the kids game I'm working on is essentially a plethora of weird and fun things to press and interact with, but there will have to be some sort of trick for navigation that makes equal sense in the mind of a 4 year (and 2 year) old, as it does for a 40 year old. Talk about your tricky software problem!! :)

<comment><USER6> Over time, as an app developer and a parent, I've come to appreciate the home button just as it is. As an app developer, it means my app will be rated and compared to other apps based on user experience for the child.. how engaging is the app, how much replay value does it provide. If the mechanics are frustrating or the content is boring, children will always vote with their finger and move onto another app. As a parent, I like that developers have to surpass a certain usability and experience threshold before parents are satisfied with the app and provide a good review.

<comment><USER20> Thats a fair point, but it doesn't really work when you're watching a movie - and my kids attention spans usually don't work so much that way.

My 18-month old will push the button just because he's experimenting with the device - this means instant dissatisfaction for his big brother, watching the movie (or playing an app) with him.

I think there is validity to the idea that you should be able to turn the touch interface off completely. Many apps exist where interaction is not only not necessary (movies), but often-times potentially very destructive to the use case (GPS/navigation).

Its true, though, that its up to the app developers, and having UI-navigation controls be 'staged' with phases and states is probably the best all-round solution. Still, I think it would've been nice to Apple to consider the case where you really, really don't want the app - or movie - to be interruptible.

<comment><USER21> I guess he will learn what the button does after a while. Show him how to get the movies going again.

You could always try turning the iPad upside down, he is probably less likely to touch the top of the device.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> Make it easy for a kid to do what s/he wants, and hard to do what s/he doesn't. Anything which disrupts the play is bad, and the worst is transitions to the App Store (kid has no idea what is going on, just that something wonderful went away for no apparent reason).

I'll pay for toddler versions which go all out to avoid anything but core simple fun play. If anything short of pressing Home means the kid has to hand me the tablet to "fix it", I want my money back.

</comment><comment><USER23> My 5 year old has been using his iPad since he was 4, and we've encountered all these problems and more. The funny thing though is that he learnt to work around all of them! Accidentally presses menu, after a couple of times he learns what to do.

I think these obstacles of bad design are just more little puzzles for children. As parents we shouldnt obsess about having a perfect environment for our kids.

On the other hand, what really bugs me is when educational apps can be easily gamed. The math bingo app was completely useless once my son figured out he could solve it by randomly banging on cells and would eventually win. A lot more effort should go in to designing apps so that the child learns something real, as opposed to just learning to play the game.

<comment><USER24> You're right about apps improving their design, but it should be noted that game design for kids is kinda tricky.

For example, what if in that math app, the player had "X" amount of lives, and every wrong answer cost a life? It might solve the issue of "keyboard smashing", but would create negative feedback, which is very inappropriate in this kind of game. Learning and with especially younger children, positive reinforcement tends to work far better than negative reinforcement. Every option has a cost.

<comment><USER25> Negative feedback is easily turned into positive feedback and the other way around. Instead of losing points or lives when you fail, you could reward thoughtful actions. For example, when the number of steps to a solution is closer to the minimum number of steps needed to solve this problem it could be an indication of thoughtful actions and rewarded accordingly.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> I find interesting his insistence that we should avoid buttons and menus on the bottom of the screen. This is extremely important, not only for kids apps. But I find that problem specially disturbing on the Android OS.

Pretty much everyone I hand my Android Tablet to, when they're not used it. Will instantly hit the home or back button by accident after 5 seconds of holding. Then hand it back to me with a negative impression "I think I hit something bad". After I explain where the menus are, and how to avoid them. They'll often still repeat the mistake a few more times before either getting used to it, or just getting bored.

So for our apps. I'd advise to avoid any page switching buttons in the bottom like it was the plague. Even if it's not a kids app.

<comment><USER27> >Pretty much everyone I hand my Android Tablet to, when they're not used it. Will instantly hit the home or back button by accident after 5 seconds of holding.

I've had a Galaxy Nexus for since early January. I like the phone, but I frequently hit the home or back button by accident at least once a day, often while typing (e.g. while trying to hit the space key).

I let my son play with my Galaxy Nexus occasionally with a few apps appropriate for his age. Those buttons are a big problem. Things work out best when I hold the phone with him, with my hand strategically placed hovering over where the buttons will be in landscape mode. But an option to disable, or a hardware solution would be ideal.

</comment></comment><comment><USER28> Generally good advice. Play-testing with young kids is a big help.

I also don't like an app that has the kid shake the iPad (or iPhone) a lot.

I'm torn on the "Don't trick my kids into buying stuff" one. I've seen a lot of crappy apps (and even well-built Smurfy-Smurf ones) that are just funnels to in-app purchases. But I've also seen parents leave outraged reviews because a developer dares to have in-app purchases for additional content in his free app. Or they turn their nose up at paying $1.99 for an iPad app. The world doesn't owe you free high-quality kids' apps. Go ahead and funnel your kid's allowance into iTunes credit now and use it to get them to clean their room.

<comment><USER29> Question for IPhone/IPad users who buy apps for kids.

I plan to gift a friend's son an Apple device of some kind and some games for his upcoming birthday, and I don't want him either bankrupting his dad (who will be registered as the owner of the device, and whose credit card details will be available to Apple/ITunes post registration (I think!) ) by accidentally buying stuff, or having to interrupt his games to dismiss in app purchases and so on.

Is there a way to disable kids purchasing stuff accidentally?

Is there a way of finding out which apps have in game purchases and which don't, without actually trying them out?

I am willing to pay for good apps and don't expect free apps, but once I pay, I want the kid to have an ad free experience.

I own no Apple Kit of any kind and have no experience buying stuff from the App Store. All help appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Edit: Thanks for all the great replies, much appreciated.

<comment><USER30> Use gift cards instead of registering a credit card. It's much easier to control the spend.

I totally agree with 'ad-free experience'; if I can't tolerate adverts in apps then I wouldn't let children see them where they will distract from the app itself.

<comment><USER31> This is what we do for our son. From what I can remember it isn't obvious that you can set up an iTunes account without a credit card - we had to go into iTunes (on a PC) after-the-fact to remove the CC info.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER32> I develop an educational app geared for kids and just like some of the people here. I dislike ads, in app purchase, external link etc so I made sure that my app doesn't have any of those and price it at $0.99. I keep updating it based on user feedback to make the app better.

It's good to read that there are a lot of parent here that say they won't purchase any app with ads and/or inapp purchases for their kids but I think majority of the people don't care.

Most of the top 15 apps in my app category/subject are free with ads and/or in app purchases. They can afford to make it free because they make money from ads/in-app purchases and because they're free they get a lot more download that keeps their ranking higher burying app like mine.

It's hard to compete in that kind of condition but I for now, I can't see my self using ads/in-app purchases in any of my app. I will try to compete by bringing better qualities apps.

<comment><USER16> There are ways to do in-app purchases for kid apps that aren't unethical. In fact, allowing people to try your app before buying it is a very ethical thing to do. Don't limit yourself unnecessarily, and don't assume kid apps with iAP must be from shady developers.

<comment><USER33> I know you feel like everyone is being unreasonable about this, but instead of trying to change their minds, consider it market research: parents on hacker news overwhelmingly distrust iAP, and maybe that means some other form of try- before-you-buy would be more appropriate for kids' apps.

<comment><USER32> I believe windows phone market place and android allow you to do some sort of trial but I don't think you can do that in apple app store. I'm not 100% sure about this so please correct me if I am wrong.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER34> One company that does this exceedingly well, me thinks, is Toca Boca. In a sense, they don't make iPad games, they make iPad toys. But kids respond to the toys, and enjoy them.

Slightly unrelated, their CEO has a good talk on the way to figuring out that they should make kids toys: <http://vimeo.com/30743193>

<comment><USER35> Completely agree - Toca Boca definitely have the right approach here. In our safe YouTube for kids app, DuckyTube, we tried hard to make the children's part of the app look fun while making the grownup parts of the app (selecting videos from YouTube, sharing with friends, etc.) look more businesslike so kids are drawn to click the duck and get back to the fun part. Similarly, if there is an error or whatever that we have to interrupt the app we make the "Continue" button look most interesting so children prefer to click it.

Another bugbear of mine is children's apps that make it too difficult for parents to access the menus. One of our competitors requires you to go to the iPhone Settings page for the app, turn on the "Show Menu" option and return to the app to press the Menu button. Then when you are done you have to repeat the process to turn it off again!

</comment></comment><comment><USER36> I get irked enough when a non-kids app keeps prodding me towards in-app purchases, I'd be pretty livid if I found out a for-kids app was doing it.

<comment><USER16> iAP is a great way to allow users to try before they buy. Don't confuse iAP with games that fundamentally handicap the game experience unless you continue paying money.

</comment></comment><comment><USER37> I've worked on a children's app for Android where the client wanted advertisements moved from the main screen (where parents would see it) to the content screen (accidental clicks only from children). That change in design made the client "dead to me" especially when they next wanted me to work on another child app where the business model was:

Fooling children into initiating SMS charges against the phone.

</comment><comment><USER38> Also, don't pop up iOS notifications. 2 year olds can't read them and they're hard to dismiss.

</comment><comment><USER39> A plea to parents purchasing iPad Apps for children:

Stop buying apps that do stuff like this.

If you see that an app has a $99 in-app berry purchase, don't download or buy it.

If you see that an app encourages children to poke and sling animals and destroy things, don't buy it.

Do a small bit of research to see if the app was designed with your child's age in mind. Buy apps from trusted sources like <http://tocaboca.com/> , <http://piikeastreet.com> (disclosure:that's me), <http://www.duckduckmoosedesign.com/> , etc.

If you buy more of the good stuff, there will be more good stuff to buy!

<comment><USER40> Thanks! I've been a bit frustrated at the difficulty in finding good engaging games for young kids. My son is older and there's quite a bit he enjoys -- puzzles, world-building, etc. For my daughter, who's younger, there seems precious little.

<comment><USER39> Totally sympathize. It can indeed be frustrating. The top lists aren't exactly structured to facilitate finding the best apps for a kid given their current developmental stage. You can google some resources and lists online, find some curated marketplaces that are making lists of apps appropriate for building certain skills, and appropriate for certain ages, but it's all an extra step outside the extreme convenience of the on-device app store.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER41> I disagree slightly with the Affordance Is King point. You should identify the hot spots on the screen, but you should also reward childish exploration. I think _most of the screen_ should be hot. Pretty much everything should be a target, and they should all be big. "Animals For Toddlers" (Eiswuxe) does this well (and is just plan excellent all around, by the way).

I also disagree with the advice that arrows are best for pagination; I think he's overgeneralizing. My toddler is great at swipes, and still doesn't use arrows well. Broader testing may be a good idea here, and implementing multiple paradigms might be the answer.

The bit about not putting the menu on the bottom of the screen is good, though. The kids apps I have on my (Android) tablet often disable the soft button menu and implement their own elsewhere. Of particular note is the pull- down-from-a-collapsed-bar-at-the-top pattern, which my son seems to know how to not get into. Or at least get out of.

And that bit about ads and in-app payments is right on the money. I've bought a few apps for him after seeing he likes the free version, but the ones that result in him launching dating sites get uninstalled fast.

<comment><USER16> Eiswuxe uses in app purchase.

</comment></comment><comment><USER42> I think this applies to any tablet app. Smart phone apps need to avoid having buttons near my thumb that I can accidentally push.

</comment><comment><USER43> This is great feedback. Right now I'm trying to finish our first book for <http://non.io> (site isn't complete yet, but it will still give you an idea of the core concept), and one of my considerations was ensuring that the app was child friendly. At the end of the day, there will be options and components that are for parents only. Ensuring that a.) they're still prominent enough for parents to see at some point, and b.) that they're out of reach of children is a difficult balancing act. Does anyone know of or have any suggestions of apps who have done this correctly? I only have two components that are for parents - a donation form and an email signup form on the last page. Right now they're disabled until you select a checkbox that says "I'm an adult". Would love to get more feedback on this though.

</comment><comment><USER44> Reminds me of a friend who used to run IT for a school, telling me the feature he looked for in educational software was greying out the 'print' button for 30 seconds after it had been clicked. Otherwise, the scenario was: kid clicks 'print', looks at printer, sees nothing coming out (maybe the printer is out of paper, or warming up, or whatever). So kid just keeps clicking 'print'. Result: when printer finally comes online, it wastes reams of paper printing dozens of copies of the document in the queue.

</comment><comment><USER45> The in app purchasing on Androids needs to be stopped or at the very least prompt a password entry. I downloaded Bug Village (Glu Mobile) on my Android for my 4 year old son, and about 2 hours later I noticed around $320 on 3 purchases (I think 2 149.99 and 1 19.99 or something around that). I contacted Glu immediately asking for it to be voided/refunded. They told me to contact my bank and charge them back.

I hope they enjoyed the chargeback fees. Now nothing gets downloaded with in app purchasing in it.

</comment><comment><USER46> I would add that kids hold the side of the iPad. So don't count that as a touch.

In fact my daughter hasn't figured out to use one finger so if you can hack the touch interface to ignore stray fingers or hands that would be great.

Also if you ate presenting some kind of activity that two people could conceivabley do at once eg building blocks, moving shapes around allow two fingers to mover separate objects at once. The same thing with drawing.

<comment><USER47> My daughter does this all the time on my Kindle Fire and my WP7. She routinely has her thumb just sitting on the edge of the screen and she wonders why the game won't work for her, but works for me. You could program dead zones on the edges of the device in applications you develop, but that doesn't work for other apps.

</comment></comment><comment><USER48> To all those who are claiming that the use of iPads will be detrimental to the health of their children. Please read this article: [http://techland.time.com/2012/02/22/new-study-finds-ipads- in...](http://techland.time.com/2012/02/22/new-study-finds-ipads-in-the- classroom-boost-test-scores/)

</comment><comment><USER30> Is there a way of stopping accidental taps on the lower part of the screen? Android is bad for this, with back/home buttons in the corner.

Perhaps some sort of elasticated non-capacitive fabric barrier wrapped around the device that can be moved when it's needed?

<comment><USER49> Sounds like you're describing a sock :)

<comment><USER30> Neat. That might just work... :-)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER30> The other aspect of design that needs to be taken into account is the size of the tap area - you don't have to make the buttons huge, but the responsive area should be larger for younger audiences and with more spacing between controls.

</comment><comment><USER50> The idea that "nagging works" is widely used to craft advertising for children's television (source: The Corporation (film)). Is the march toward such advertising in this nascent children's entertainment medium inexorable?

</comment><comment><USER51> Great post! The comments about persuasive ads hits home. Another frustration is sales messages on the startup screen. Once a game requires too much parental interaction to back out purchase requests I delete it.

</comment><comment><USER30> Also, which is better for kids - landscape or portrait? Has anyone seen a preference, or are all the apps landscape?

<comment><USER52> My daughter, a daily iPad user from about 9 months old (now 2.5!) exclusively uses it in a landscape orientation and I've never seen her try otherwise. That said, I'm the same unless one handed operation is desirable (no dirty thoughts, friends!)

<comment><USER30> Interesting. I use my tablet landscape except if I'm reading an ebook. Maybe there's something more natural about landscape views, and I've been conditioned to read in portrait by printed material.

On smaller devices I find portrait more natural, possibly due to the one- handed nature of use.

Out of interest: do any of the apps she uses support landscape? Is she choosing that orientation or are the app designers making the decision?

<comment><USER52> Most of the apps are landscape or are _better_ in landscape (e.g. YouTube) so the decision may not be as natural as it seems at first glance.

Another thing to consider, though, is that a high proportion of books for under 3s are in landscape too (in my experience at least). So maybe the book industry has also had this question crop up over the years too.. :-)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER53> My only addition is to ask for a band on scroll bars in a kids app, especially on the bottom of the page.

<comment><USER54> Do you mean a "ban" on scroll bars?

<comment><USER53> Yes, my fingers don't always type what I expect...

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER55> I always asked myself why there isn't a KIDS category in the AppStore.

</comment><comment><USER56> ipad kills kids' eyes. i buy real books instead.

<comment><USER46> Citation needed</comment></comment>


Harvey Mudd College: Increasing women in CS from 10 to 40% in 5 years - <AUTHOR> https://backchannel.com/at-harvey-mudd-college-the-ratio-of-women-in-cs-increased-from-10-to-40-in-5-years-4bb72e909fbd <comment><USER2> My only concern when I see things like this, is I really don't want to see better gender equality at the expense of reverse-discrimination, or for programs that are only for one role|race|gender. It's one thing to try to balance out, it's another to create a situation of intolerance.

My younger brother had a teacher (5th grade, about 20 years ago now), that openly said that boys in her class would average one grade score below girls in the class. Thing like that just aren't right, and don't serve to improve a situation.

As it stands there are significantly more women than men involved in post high school education. Right, fair and equal are not always the same thing... but _just_ should be.

</comment><comment><USER3> TL;DR

1\. split intro course into one class for students with no prior programming experience and one for students with prior experience.

2\. send about 65, including 25 first year, female students to a conference geared towards women in technology.

3\. encourage female students to apply for early research opportunities.

4\. match female computer scientist mentors with female students.

Interesting comment in original article: _So to summarize you use special treatment to remedy a gender imbalance because you feel better if you have an equal number of male and female students in any given major. What majors have more women than men and what is being done to remedy those?_

</comment><comment><USER4> The lack of women in any CS program is a symptom and indicates a problem that is wider than mere gender (or race or whatever obvious demogoraphic category you have). Harvey Mudd appear to have a desire to fix the actual problem, which is people who would do very well to go with CS being discouraged. As long as what anyone does to address demographic imbalance goes to the root cause and is not just a whole load of symptom masking I'm all for it. If $minority aren't present you can bet that there are also a bunch of white guys who would be really good at CS, better than the incumbents perhaps, who have also been discouraged because they're shy, are intimidated by those who loudly know 1% more at the start of the course or whatever it is. Just as there would be any other demographic group. In fixing that problem of discouraging the best talent the quality of their CS grads in terms of what they are able to get done, what novel insights they have should improve. The students should push the academics harder and make the CS program stronger. Will that happen? I hope so but we'll see. I don't know more than this blog post.

The disaster would be if symptoms of the disease were masked and the manner in which they are masked means the grads have learned less. (Eg finding the subject matter is too intimidating so dumbing it down as a response.)

Anytime you have a narrow demographic dominating a field it's symptom telling there's a problem but it tells you exactly nothing about what the true nature of the problem is. You have to do a bunch of additional work to find out if it's because of hostility to "outsiders", poor preparation earlier in education, societal cultural discouragement or if the field has no intellectual merit and is largely a con that has taken hold of a particular demographic or any one of a million other causes. Treating a demographic imbalance as the problem itself is crazy - the disease, whatever it is, will persist and be harder to track.

</comment><comment><USER5> I wonder how the faculty male/female ratio impacts the student ratio. Here's Harvey Mudd's CS Department:

[https://www.cs.hmc.edu/people/](https://www.cs.hmc.edu/people/)

It lists 15 Faculty: 9 Male, 6 Female.

Interestingly, 6/15 also equals 40%.

How does Harvey Mudd's ratio compare to other schools? I'm guessing most CS departments are more male dominated, but don't know for sure.

</comment><comment><USER6> [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11182080](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11182080)</comment>


Microsoft is bringing the Bash shell to Windows 10 - <AUTHOR> http://techcrunch.com/2016/03/30/be-very-afraid-hell-has-frozen-over-bash-is-coming-to-windows-10/ <comment><USER2> See [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11388418](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11388418)

</comment><comment><USER3> And i am curious about can this thing run Wine?

<comment><USER4> lol... slow-clap.gif

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> Comments moved to [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11388418](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11388418).

</comment><comment><USER6> Hahaha - I just used GRC's Never10 tool to stop the constant annoying pestering to upgrade to Windows 10. Now, I'm not so sure anymore.

</comment><comment><USER7> Great!</comment>


Why Android is the New Windows - <AUTHOR> http://blog.mobilesplease.co.uk/why-android-is-the-new-windows/ <comment><USER2> Since web services are the reason d'etre of smartphones, there are inherently few switching costs for jumping between leading smartphone platforms and therefore none of the lock-in that lead to Windows' dominance.

</comment><comment><USER3> One area where android is similar to windows is that it runs on several hardware platforms from several vendors, whereas apple has a single (or three: ipad/ipod/iphone) target platform.

</comment><comment><USER4> In the past, Apple feared IBM, sided with Microsoft and Microsoft beat it.

Recently, Apple feared Microsoft, sided with Google and Google beat it.

<comment><USER5> I wish someone would beat me the way Google beats Apple. Apple is making a bunch more money off iOS than Google makes off Android, and in the US they are only barely being beat in market share when Google is on all major carriers and Apple is on just one. When Verizon gets iPhone, Android will go back to second place.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> Android is everybody's whore. Even sleazy ringtone vendors (I mean carriers) like verizon are able to adulterate android for their own purposes.

<comment><USER7> I see this as really no different then Dell's bloatware being installed on Dell sold PC's, though there are worrying exceptions.

AT&T limits some (all?) of it's phones to prevent them access to the standard Android market. However, I think to combat this behavior you can't call the phone a Google Experience phone or something without following some basic ground rules like allowing the standard market, and keeping up with updates.

Some phones do not allow the user to install a custom ROM or root the device. This is worrying because it would be like buying a Dell that won't let you reformat with *nix. Of course, there are plenty of vulnerabilities in the wild (akin to Jail Breaking) that get around this. I believe most vendors prevent the user from gaining root access to their device to upsell them on features that don't require any work on their part except flipping a bit in software, (tethering comes to mind, visual voice mail is another)

For the second part, I believe that carriers aren't going to let go of this income and become network infrastructure maintainers like cable companies without regulation, unfortunately.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> Android cannot be the new "windows" because alot of decisions leading up to windows in it's current incarnation were driven by the anti-competitive nature of Microsoft. Android takes the best aspects of windows' business strategies and incorporates them in an open environment.

So I guess if you are saying android is the phone to run on a bunch of random hardware which will outsell apple, yes, android is the new windows of cellphones. In the end it's closer to a user-friendly linux.

<comment><USER9> If by 'user-friendly linux' you mean 'linux without any of the linux showing' then yes. I can't stand linux, but android is great.

<comment><USER8> Linux is a bit different than people expect:

To me linux is everything under the hood. The File System, The Kernel, the Open Sourcing of the two, and everything built on top of that.

"I can't stand linux" only tells me that you need to log off from the internet because guess what most is run on.

<comment><USER9> Right, but my issue is directed at the people who use Android. It didn't start outselling iPhone because of techies like us alone - 'normal' people use it, 'normal' people who would otherwise never use 'linux' and probably don't realize they're already using it on their phone, and the key to that is they got rid of all* the parts about linux that cause headaches for average users.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Super Mario 64 Online Release [video] - <AUTHOR> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YS3CrLG8dEg <comment><USER2> If you haven't heard, the person behind this mod (Kaze Emanuar) was also responsible for tons of amazing mods of the same game. For example, he also made the incredibly technically advanced Super Mario 64 Last Impact with all new levels, enemies, power ups, bosses and gimmicks:

[http://sm64hacks.com/hack.php?id=59](http://sm64hacks.com/hack.php?id=59)

As well as Super Mario Odyssey 64 (which let you possess anything from Mario 64 by chucking your hat at it):

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGcsVQB1NAA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGcsVQB1NAA)

Super Mario 64 Maker:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNZk4ggJkcc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNZk4ggJkcc)

And Super Mario 64 3D World (where he set up the custom abilities the players for Mario 64 Online have):

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ePa_FrSNkI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ePa_FrSNkI)

So if you're interested in this project, you should also check out his previous work. It's amazing.

<comment><AUTHOR> He's also currently working on a "Super Mario 64"/"Zelda: Ocarina of Time" crossover (unless the project has been abandoned)

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_v2zXB- YUZ8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_v2zXB-YUZ8)

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> How do people do things like this? They manage to achieve pretty sophisticated modifications to compiled games without access to the source code. Is it really just disassembly and careful low-level work?

<comment><USER4> Debugging tools in n64 emulators (such as nemu64) are sufficient to make tracking down particular game logic more in the neighborhood of a fun puzzle than a slog through (roughly) a megabyte of assembly. Super Mario 64 in particular has had an active ROM hacking community for over a decade, so there is a large body of knowledge about the game's internals, though it resembles folklore more than a systematic approach. The hard parts to discover through disassembly are the 3d graphics api and memory-mapped IO, but that was already worked out quite a while ago for emulators (based largely on patent documents).

In fact, there are level editors for SM64! Kaze, the creator of this hack, occasionally streams development on twitch; it's a lot of cross-referencing different pieces of accumulated documentation.

Edit: An example of some of the documentation, a list of ROM addresses of various textures: [http://wiki.origami64.net/super_mario_64/textures](http://wiki.origami64.net/super_mario_64/textures)

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> Amazing work. If you like this, check out Multi Theft Auto and San Andreas Multiplayer, two mods that add online multiplayer support and scripting capabilities to GTA Vice City and San Andreas. MTA:SA even adds a map editor that works _inside_ the game client itself.

<comment><USER6> Oh goodness, MTA brought me so much fun.

Mostly of the Lua-script-that-made-cars-rain-from-the-sky-above-random-players kind.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> Neat! Seems pretty freeform though, which I don't love - I like a bit more structure in my games. Also, Id be surprised if the levels that were all designed for Mario play well with a bunch of characters with alternative movement powers.

Still, this looks hella cool. Hope Nintendo doesn't get nasty about it, I want to try it with my kids (although I lack enough machines)

</comment><comment><USER8> With all of the brand new models I'm assuming he either imported or created from scratch (e.g. Peach, Rosalina, Waluigi, Toad, etc), it's a little puzzling why his Luigi is still a palette-swapped Mario instead of going for the longer-thinner variety that's been pretty standard to Luigi's character for over a decade.

<comment><USER9> From the developer's comments on YouTube there was a previous Luigi model that someone had crafted with custom tools but they'd left the project and thus the Luigi model hasn't had as much work done for it.

There's also additional challenges where they have a limited amount of game RAM to work with and so additional textures and models are tough to fit in.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> Quick link to download/mirror for the lazy: [https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/347469400565219338/35...](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/347469400565219338/356487435296833536/Super_Mario_64_Online.zip)

</comment><comment><USER11> Subreddit here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/sm64online/](https://www.reddit.com/r/sm64online/)

Threads are starting to form with public servers etc. Could be a good community to come of this, I'm excited.

</comment><comment><USER12> Can someone explain this to me? How does the game/emulator communicate with his little server program?

<comment><AUTHOR> No idea, sorry. But according to this interview[0] a guy named MelonSpeedruns "did the basic program that would allow sending bytes from each emulator to a server". Sadly I can't find any blogpost, video or any kind of forum, where he talks about this project. His github account shows nothing related to this either. Maybe there are further details in one of Kaze's videos[1], or you could try asking MelonSpeedruns directly on github[2] or reddit[3].

[0][https://www.redbull.com/sg-en/mario-64-online- interview](https://www.redbull.com/sg-en/mario-64-online-interview)

[1][https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuvSqzfO_LV_QzHdmEj84SQ](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuvSqzfO_LV_QzHdmEj84SQ)

[2][https://github.com/MelonSpeedruns](https://github.com/MelonSpeedruns)

[3][https://www.reddit.com/user/MelonSpeedruns/](https://www.reddit.com/user/MelonSpeedruns/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> This is awesome, one of my fav games as a kid. I prefered better the DS version but still fantastic.

</comment><comment><USER14> Countdown to Nintendo's cease and desist order in 3...

<comment><USER15> In the immortal words of Jason Scott: "Itsa me, cease and desist"

[https://mobile.twitter.com/textfiles/status/7396378033450516...](https://mobile.twitter.com/textfiles/status/739637803345051649)

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> Cease and Desist in 3... 2...</comment>


Ask YC: Best Linux distro to deploy as a Server - <AUTHOR> I am about moving my web application (which has a reasonably high traffic) from a shared hosting package to my own hardware and i will like to know the best Linux Distro to use as my server. There is alot of talk of Ubuntu on the desktop but i dont know how well it performs as a server. <comment><USER2> I've been using Linux on Servers and Desktop for almost 10 years now, and I still think that's a hard question to answer. On my desktop I use ubuntu, but I would definitely not use it on a server, it would require a hell of a lot of work to get it to be a decent server. Some years ago I used to install Red Hat on the servers, and if you are a beginer on Linux that's what I would advise, the Fedora Core. I usually install Gentoo on my servers, but if you don't have a steady Linux background that's probably not a good idea. When I say Gentoo I could be saying any other distro where you have full control of all the installation and administration process like slackware. As for Debian, I hear a lot of people praising it but each time I installed it on a server I finished regreting it as they have some weird pre-configurations and configuration files tree for some things and are very purists in others. As an example I could refer vi and apache. Vim as been around forever, and comes with pretty usable pre-configurations in most distros since at leas when I started using Linux but debian still comes with an unconfigured vi for default, not vim. Oposed to that, apache comes with some strange configurations and some strange directory structure and files for the configuration files.

<comment><USER3> What would be required to get Unbuntu to perform as a server in your mind? Removing X windows? Hardening? Why wouldn't you just perform a minimal install of Ubunut's LTS for example? That has X disabled and no open ports by default - that is an excellent start for a public-facing server.

More info here: [http://www.ubuntu.com/products/whatisubuntu/serveredition/fe...](http://www.ubuntu.com/products/whatisubuntu/serveredition/features/security)

Further more, Fedora is a johnny-come-lately, created when Red Hat closed their once open linux version. While they claim that Fedora will always be free, one wonders how much Red Hat supports Fedora since it obviously competes with their product. I think a truly, permanently free distro is a much better choice.

<comment><USER2> Yes, not installing X windows would be one of those things. But not one of the main issues. Removing lots of stuff that is installed on a fresh system, configuring the services that the server will be running in, that intrincated "debian like" /etc, making shure no ubuntu specific configuration tool will destroy some configuration file edited by hand, etc...

About the LTS, I would like to remind you that it mean Long Time Support, not Long Time Server. As for the Fedora Core, I myself don't use it, but my previous experience with Red Hat lead me to believe it is easier for the Linux beginner than Debian.But you're probably right about that, Cento OS would probably be a better choice that a Fedora Core... but don't quote me on that cause my experience with Cent OS is almost null.

<comment><USER3> Any changes made by hand to a configuration file on a debian-like system are noted and respected by aptitude and apt-get, so your configuration files will not be over-written (unless you want them to.)

All services are "off" by default on the LTS server and debian tries to conform to the Linux Standards Base so what you find in /etc/ is most likely similar to other distros.

The Cent OS community is not anywhere near as large as the debian community, and when you add in commercial support from Canonical, that makes for a pretty good value for money when you chose Ubuntu.

<comment><USER2> I'm not talking about apt or any debian configuration tool, I'm speaking of those graphical configuration applications that come with ubuntu, some of them use specific files to overwrite default configuration files on boot, etc...

About the ease of configuration on /etc, I can tell you that I've lost a full day to try an make apache work with vhosts and mod_python on ubuntu because of the debian specific way of scatering the configuration files, I usually do this in 5 minutes on gentoo or on apache compiled by me using the official distributed tar packages. Even this last week I had do configure a qmail with vpopmail on a debian system and it was again a pain in the ass. Maybe I've been unluck with the services I've needed to run on a Debian, but as far as I can say, I would not advice Debian.

A big difference on more "low level" distros where the user contrlos everything, as gentoo or slackware to more "automated" ones, like Debian or Fedora Core are the services on by default. A "ps ax" after finishing a base installation on gentoo fits on a 80x25 screen, on a Debian/Fedora this could fit on two or more screens.

<comment><USER4> That is actually a good argument for running the same OS on the desktop as well as servers. Experience gained while configuring a development envrionment can be used towards maintaining a production server.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> _"... i will like to know the best Linux Distro to use as my server ..."_

The best Linux distro is probably a _BSD variant_.

Your OS choice for servers differs from desktops. Security, stability and available expertise is more important than ability to configure. The self compiled Linux distributions available for your desktop could expose your server to attack. You can read more here for reasons why ~ ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet/news.answers/unix-faq/faq/part6

      think of BSD as an older, more conservative
      and stable OS than the "open-all-doors" Linux ...

You can use Linux, but it takes a bit more work to secure than BSD. For the simple reason Linux is younger, more open and therefore less secure than BSD variants (unless hardened with patches like SE) ~ <http://networking.ringofsaturn.com/Unix/bsd.php> OBSD and FreeBSD would be my choice. FreeBSD was also the choice of Viaweb. I suppose _"Robert Morris"_ knows a thing or to about securing systems ~ <http://www.paulgraham.com/vwfaq.html> BSD OS's are safe, secure and have access to the source, support lots of hardware with caveats. Here is a quick choice guide ~ [http://www.serverwatch.com/tutorials/article.phpr/10825_3393...](http://www.serverwatch.com/tutorials/article.phpr/10825_3393051_4#serversol)

Of the Linux servers I'd stick with Debian variants which includes Ubuntu. Debian has their own way of doing things but it is stable, well understood. Maybe SE-Linux is worth a look ~ <http://www.nsa.gov/selinux/> and <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selinux>

_"... i will like to know the best Linux Distro to use as my server ..."_

That also depends on what hardware you are using. Is it hosted, your own?? Check your hardware lists before you choose your OS.

<comment><USER3> debian is the "universal" operating system and runs on more hardware than any other linux distribution.

I love the *BSD UNIXes, but there are also "issues" there as well. The FreeBSD threading model does not work well with MySQL for example and you can see database problems there. I suspect Postgres on FreeBSD is more common and works rather well so you can go that route instead.

However, the original poster wanted info specifically about linux, and while a BSD UNIX is similar, there are enough differences that productivity at first might be diminished while one learns about the port system for packages as well as other differences.

I think it is a bit misleading to say that a distro like debian "opens all doors", that is not the case. And the recent OpenSSL problem not withstanding, debian is quite secure. In fact, the OpenSSL packaging issue shows that the debian security apparatus mostly works, and that the lessons learned are quickly being implemented. One must acknowledge however that this was a serious security problem on debian's side and in contrast OpenBSD has had _two_ exploits in _ten_ years. Those are some pretty sterling security credentials for OpenBSD.

<comment><USER5> _"... However, the original poster wanted info specifically about linux, and while a BSD UNIX is similar, there are enough differences that productivity ..."_

The poster also mentioned inexperience then requests a less secure server OS than what is possible. Productivity may indeed suffer. Would it be a better idea would be to get an experienced sys-admin to look over the server and secure it?

 _"... I think it is a bit misleading to say that a distro like debian "opens all doors", that is not the case ..."_

Of all the distro's debian is probably the better of the bunch to work with. Debian can be secured. But the strength of Linux and debian, its openness is also its weakness. Default installed distributions still install more applications than you need. This can leave the potential of an unwanted application running to be exploited. Debian before Ubuntu was also the hardest to configure hardware.

 _"... One must acknowledge however that this was a serious security problem on debian's side and in contrast OpenBSD has had _two_ exploits in _ten_ years. Those are some pretty sterling security credentials for OpenBSD ..."_

When it comes to security I'd take OBSD over any linux distro for the simple reason the source has been audited. It is secure by default (You have to actively install what you require ~ <http://www.openbsd.org/security.html> ). You will not be let down core applications with holes. Having said that I balk at upgrades.

 _"... The FreeBSD threading model does not work well with MySQL for example and you can see database problems there. I suspect Postgres on FreeBSD is more common and works rather well so you can go that route instead. ..."_

Or dispense with RDBM's altogether?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> I've been using Ubuntu for a couple months on my server, and its been perfect (though its not too much traffic). I mainly used Ubuntu because thats what I have on my desktop, so I was comfortable with setup/installation/config/etc. If you use linux on your desktop, I'd stick with that, just because a production server isn't the best place to experiment. If you're new to Linux, Ubuntu is great to start with because theres lots more documentation for it than for other distros.

<comment><USER3> Not sure I agree with you there. Red Hat has gone a long way with their documentation - being a commercial linux distro requires solid documentation. So, to be fair, Red Hat probably has the best documentation. I have used debian / ubuntu for years and documentation can be quite spotty unfortunately.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> CentOS works well for us. I like the idea of having a free version of a commercial distro (RHEL).

<comment><USER8> For our internal projects, we use CentOS. Externally we use a mixture of CentOS, FreeBSD boxes and one OpenBSD box.

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> I use Debian or Ubuntu (which is based on Debian anyway) since I prefer apt- get over the rpm tools for managing the system. But really, that's more preference than anything else. I've used Fedora and Red Hat before that for a long time.

They're all fairly similar and pretty much equally configurable as far as servers go. Just choose one, learn the tools you need, automate with shell scripts, and away you go :)

I find that the key for manageability is scripts. I have a repeatable mostly- automatic process for building new servers from a base install that I've been using and tweaking since my first server, now it handles everything from Apache and MySQL to iptables, backups over rsync+ssh, etc.

</comment><comment><USER10> I've written about this at length in the past:

<http://www.obsceneart.com/?p=30>

More recently, I'd say that Debian is still superior to Ubuntu on the server (the changes Ubuntu have made actually make it less comfortable on the server). But I tend to deploy CentOS 5.

But anything with a long life-cycle, good package management (yum or apt-get), and is popular enough to have lots of coverage on the web, will work fine.

</comment><comment><USER11> Almost any of them can work well. If you are a competent admin and architect, you can make any distro work. But competent admins and architects generally already know several distros very well and wouldn't get much value from this discussion. So your _real_ problem seems to be that you're worried that you don't have the proper skill set.

Basically: you're asking the wrong question. Either develop the expertise yourself, or hire someone who already knows this stuff and trust their judgement. Asking a bunch of internet yahoos for their opinion on a platform choice is just going to cause a flamewar (c.f. bootload's post above).

All that being said: I've had plenty of experience on Ubuntu and RHEL/CentOS and like them both. Debian is rougher but works once you know it well. Stay away from Gentoo except as a teaching tool. And *BSD and Solaris are also good choices if you have the staff buy-in (i.e. don't cause friction with your IT folks, let them use what they like).

</comment><comment><USER12> There was a recent panel discussion at UC about MySQL, scaling up or out, I think there was a link on YC to a noteset, with some pretty big names. There was a round of questions about server specs. WRT OS, they all ran OpenSolaris or Linux (specifically RHEL, Fedora, Ubuntu, or SuSE)

I think this is the link that came over the wire [http://www.paragon- cs.com/wordpress/2008/04/16/scaling-mysql...](http://www.paragon- cs.com/wordpress/2008/04/16/scaling-mysql-up-or-out-panel-uc/)

but this seems to have the best aggregation of notesets from the panel, from tables to video and lists: [http://www.technocation.org/content/panel- video%3A-scaling-m...](http://www.technocation.org/content/panel- video%3A-scaling-mysql-or-out%3F)

</comment><comment><USER3> Ubuntu is mostly debian, and they even support a LTS (Long Term Support) version of their software. debian has more software packages (@18,000) than any other distro, so you would have any linux software you need right at your fingertips. Ubuntu comes with commercial support from Canonical if you should need that, but I think you will find lots of Ubuntuistas out there willing to help for free in the fora and such.

My personal preference is for debian, but if you are already familiar with Ubuntu, then use that for you web server since you will be able to use your already hard-won knowledege and Ubuntu performs admirably.

<comment><USER13> LTS is for long term support, meaning that they will provide help for it longer than the other releases. The most recent version, 8.04 is an LTS release. The previous LTS was 6.06.

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> Another vote for Debian or Ubuntu. I've been happy with both. Debian is more stable, but if you rely on a recent package (say if you keep your software in git), you then have build or install your own or rely on backports or other unofficial packages. Ubuntu Server is more up-to-date. (It goes without saying that your Ubuntu Server installation shouldn't have any X packages installed, and, by default, does not.)

With respect to Red Hat based distributions, I have always had more luck with apt and Debian packages than RPMs. It probably comes down to familiarity, so YMMV.

</comment><comment> patrickg-zill Debian or Cetnos. Debian is great for servers that you want to perform one or two specific tasks on, because you can install only what you need. Centos is great because it follows RedHat Enterprise Linux very closely and thus pretty much any packaged software out there can be installed relatively easily on it.

</comment><comment><USER15> CentOS would be best.

</comment><comment><USER16> Ubuntu server is pretty slick -- all the goodness of Debian with up-to-date packages.

The best Linux distro is probably a BSD variant.

Fail -- I'm a huge FreeBSD fan but did you consider that perhaps this app is written in Java, which to this day has second rate support in FreeBSD (largely due to Sun).

</comment><comment><USER17> Ubuntu works great for me.

aptitude install foo baby

</comment><comment><USER18> I learning that rhel or centos are the way to go.

I've had -remote- machines running debian, ubuntu, or fedora & all do not upgrade well at all remotely. Frankly, if your distro doesn't have a "foo upgrade" that works, run away!

</comment><comment><USER19> I'd stick with what you're familiar with, otherwise you'll lose a lot of time relearning how to perform sysadmin tasks on the new system.

</comment><comment><USER20> There is no best - but like others have said Debian or CentOS.

</comment><comment><USER21> OpenBSD; it runs GNU/Linux binaries too.

</comment><comment><USER22> My vote would go to Debian.

</comment><comment><USER23> CentOS or Fedora Sulphur.

</comment><comment><USER24> my servers are all setup as debian 4

</comment><comment><USER25> Debian</comment>


Lean Analytics For Startups - <AUTHOR> http://www.slideshare.net/watchingwebsites/lean-analytics-for-startups <comment><USER2> Hi folks. The reason why this presentation was so long is that it was actually a multi-hour presentation. It's actually three presentations in one.

We're going to split them apart when we get a chance and upload them in bits on slideshare.

Thanks for the interest!

</comment><comment><USER3> There was a lot of good material there, but there has to be a better way to share this content than a 350-slide deck.

<comment><USER4> Found a video clip of the Twitter retweets part of the presentation: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQCk7CTKb5I&feature=playe...](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQCk7CTKb5I&feature=player_embedded)

It wasn't clear from the slideshow, but he was comparing it to a kind of a Google PageRank for humans. I wonder if anyone's already running some kind of PageRank-ish algos on tweet propagation.

<comment><USER5> Thanks for the additional info clofresh

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Must browse for anyone interested in the strategies and understanding of analytics & marketing for modern web businesses. I git it a solid 9/10 (a little too long)

Certainly enjoyed p331 VC question/answers section

</comment><comment><USER6> Very interesting, thanks for this.</comment>


Ask HN: Cloud 9 closing for good. Any alternatives - <AUTHOR> As some feared and predicted, Amazon is closing C9 in December.I learned to code on C( reading Michael Hartl's rail book. Can anyone recommend any alternative cloud based coding platforms ? <comment><USER2> [https://repl.it/](https://repl.it/)

</comment><comment><USER3> Microsoft is launching [Visual Studio Code Online]([https://techcrunch.com/2019/05/06/microsoft-launches- visual-...](https://techcrunch.com/2019/05/06/microsoft-launches-visual- studio-online-an-online-code-editor/)) soon and [Stackblitz]([https://stackblitz.com/](https://stackblitz.com/)) has an online code editor based on Visual Studio Code as well.

<comment><USER4> You can also run Code online on your own server: [https://github.com/cdr/code- server](https://github.com/cdr/code-server)

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> I think just unmigrated legacy accounts are going away, but you move it over the the same cloud IDE setup just pegged to a regular aws account [https://c9.io/announcement](https://c9.io/announcement)

</comment><comment><USER6> CodeSandbox is pretty nice! [https://codesandbox.io](https://codesandbox.io)

I also like Glitch a lot [https://glitch.com](https://glitch.com)

</comment><comment><USER7> <sarcasm>I'm still fearing that I won't be able to open Emacs tomorrow morning </sarcasm>

Seriously though, your Editor is one of the most basic tools is as important as the chair you sit, or the keys to your house... you shouldn't depend on somebody else's computer to access edit your code.

</comment><comment><USER8> Cloud9 is not shutting down. You just have to use AWS version of it.

</comment><comment><USER9> You can use code-server[1] to get a vscode web ide

[1] [https://github.com/cdr/code-server](https://github.com/cdr/code-server)

<comment><USER10> This is so great, I have completely switched from self hosted c9 to coder

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> When was this announced? I seem to have completely missed it. Can someone link a previous discussion on HN about it?

<comment><USER2> There are a few scattered comments. Try Search at the bottom of the HN page.

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> [https://repl.it/](https://repl.it/)

</comment><comment><USER13> Amazon's the new Google.</comment>


The Effect of Founder Experience on Labor Market Outcomes: A Field Experiment [pdf] - barry-cotter http://www.tristanbotelho.com/files/BotelhoChang2019_FounderExperienceLaborMarkets.pdf <comment> barry-cotter > We find that former founders receive fewer callbacks than non-founders; > however, all founders are not disadvantaged similarly. Former founders of > successful ventures receive even fewer callbacks than former founders of > failed ventures. Through 20 interviews with technical recruiters we > highlight the mechanisms driving this founder experience discount: concerns > related to the applicant's capability and ability to fit into and remain > committed to the wage employment and the hiring firm.</comment>