Rate my new startup, Appointment Reminder - <AUTHOR> http://www.kalzumeus.com/2010/05/14/unveiling-my-second-product-demo-included/ <comment><AUTHOR> Clickable link: <http://www.appointmentreminder.org>

A funny HN story here: back in my last month or so at the company, when the seeds of this idea were germinating, I was going to call this NotiPhone, but had some minor worries about Apple going after be for selling something that was not iPhones. I had mentally gotten over that and was going to register the domains as soon as I got back a three day stint at the office... and on the last day, Notifo (YC10) launched. Going with NotiPhone struck me as professionally discourteous so I went back to my old trusty generic.

(I did end up buying the domains eventually because, hey, you never know.)

<comment><USER10> I don't like this Patrick, sorry. No "congrats" and "pat on the back" here.

You know, I do get a personal call from my dentist, carpet cleaner, and my kids' doctor before an appointment. I call my customers before meeting with them too.

But what a waste of time for all of us right? Why not send out this automated voice mail message instead:

"Don't be late! I don't have time to call you, but you better have time to meet and PAY me."

Nice.

I think you'll be able to sell it, but it seems like a DIS-service to me.

Also, NOTHING pisses my wife off more than a voice mail from an automated system.

Just yesterday she got one from a local service we donate clothes to (pretty sure it was them again), and she let out a throaty roar in the kitchen because she hates them so much, she wants a different service now.

<comment><USER11> I upmodded you from zero, because negative feedback is even more valuable than positive feedback, and it probably does Patrick a disservice to try to filter out the negative stuff.

That said: we get automated calls from a couple of different things in our life, and while I can't say that I love the calls, they are _effective_ \--- they actually change behavior.

<comment><USER12> Ya.. I wonder if you could crowdsource something like this? Pay folks a smallish commission to place the calls for you through a Twilio interface. I know of some answering services that work more or less that way, and they seem to do well. I'd imagine you can get a $2-$4 (somewhere in that range) per call, so pay a $1 commission per call. Use Twilio to record the calls to audit quality.

<comment><USER11> "Crowdsourcing" works well when workers can vote on a best solution. But you only get one crack at a customer contact.

<comment><USER13> How many customers are we talking?

If you get 10 customers a day, you treat each one like they're a duke; if 100 a day, each one is made to feel like a person. 1000 customers per day are a vague blur, an avalanche of humanity of whom only occasional glimpses are clear, 10,000 customers a day is statistics, and 10 Million per day is an abstraction.

Different businesses deal with different customers and different customer volumes change the shape and functionality of the organizations that serve them.

The question for you is, at what scale does a business built on somewhat random customer service experiences work?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> Patrick, first of all, congrats!

One thought - this is something that's very valuable, but I do hope that you've considered selling this (at full price) as an addition to existing reservation systems. Asking service professionals to switch reservation systems is a very large ask; perhaps your $669/mo plan overlaps with that segment enough that it's not an issue. Even outside healthcare, my barbershop has a pretty tricked out system installed already. So I think you're going to have more $9/mo in your mix than you do, but I'm excited to see the data.

Also, I think there are many, many people who would love to fete you at a meetup. Please do consider publishing your American travel plans to us HNers so that we may ply you with beer and learn the dark arts of keyword research and other internet marketing ephemera.

</comment><comment><USER15> I think a .org is a bad idea. I know you are getting it for the exact match bonus, but noone clicks .org expecting to pay. Most people will probably just think you are an organization of appointment reminders

Here are a few available .net/.com domains that you can get now, w/ # of exact match searches per month:

appointmentletter.net - 9,900

appointmentcard.net - 1,000

salonappointmentbook.com/.net - 1,000

appointmentremindersoftware.net - 1,000

appointmentletters.net - <USER6>

appointmentpower.net - <USER6>

salonappointmentsoftware.com/.net - <USER6>

appointmentreminderservice.net - <USER6>

onlineappointmentscheduler.net - <USER6>

appointmentsystem.net - <USER7>

appointmentbooksoftware.net - <USER8>

automatedappointmentreminder.com/.net - <USER9>

<comment><AUTHOR> _no one clicks .org expecting to pay_

The next time you get a haircut, can you do me a favor? Ask your stylist "What is a domain name?" and "What is the difference between dot com and dot O R G?"

<comment><USER15> Try naming 10-20 commercial websites(sites actually selling things) that are successful on a .org domain name. Can't? There is probably a reason for that.

It's not hairdressers you need to worry about, it's Google...who simply won't rank you in top positions.

<comment><AUTHOR> _It's not hairdressers you need to worry about, it's Google...who simply won't rank you in top positions._

Like saying there is carbon in a water molecule, this is simply not correct. com, net, and org domains all get the exact match bonus in the US, and orgs are not noticeably weaker than coms given equivalent link equity.

<comment><USER15> how many .net and .org websites have you launched? A .com gets a HUGE bonus over those.

A .com with 0 link building will almost always start off on page 1 or 2. Even for a competitive keyword, at worst you are looking at page 3.

A .net or .org will usually start off on page 40.

After 2-3 weeks of link building, with a .com you are looking at a top 3 position. With a .org, after 2-3 weeks of link building you'll be lucky to climb up to page 2.

A .com will always be king, it's the most valuable domain name for a reason.

<comment><USER16> Here's a quick disproof of your hypothesis. Find travelblog.com (singular) on the first page of this query:

<http://www.google.com/search?q=travel+blog>

Now find travelblog.org on that page.

<comment><USER15> bad example, the travelblog.com is a british site.

Go search for travelblog on google.co.uk, and it's in the top 3 position.

And sure travelblog.org is #1 there too, but the .org is a PR6 website, while the .com is a PR4 website. That's orders of magnitude higher.

<comment><USER16> No, it's a good example, for all the reasons you state.

The fact that a .com often ranks higher than its .org equivalent has nothing to do with it being a .com, but rather that its owners have done a better job of building it into a relevant site. You're seeing correlation, but not causation. As you correctly observe, PageRank and other SEO factors are the important thing.

Here are a few more examples of the same principle in action:

<http://www.google.com/search?q=wikipedia> <http://www.google.com/search?q=slashdot> <http://www.google.com/search?q=php>

<comment><USER15> it has everything to do with a .com.

Same SEO methods on a .com and .net, will always have .com beating out the .net.

All those examples you give, there is no competition, those are BRANDS that choose to reside on a .net/.org domains, there is no wikipedia.com trying to outrank the .org.

We are not talking about brands here. We are talking about keyword centric domains that are targeting keywords people actually search for. So to give you an example, you should be trying to find a bluewidgets.org that outranks a bluewidgets.com, where bluewidgets.org has the same or lower page rank.

<comment><USER17> You are right, do not mind the downmods.

Simple experiment, buy these three domains:

hgjhsushrdksjhfkshfkshf.com hgjhsushrdksjhfkshfkshf.org hgjhsushrdksjhfkshfkshf.net

Link them on a single page somewhere, wait Google to index it, and search for "hgjhsushrdksjhfkshfkshf". What tld will Google show first?

But if the .org or .net have a couple good links from somewhere else, they will rank higher. So, you're right on your pure domain keyword ranking, but I am from the opinion that it doesn't matter if you're going to use additional SEO techniques.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> IMO the page is too busy. The value proposition is lost in a sea of text. Maybe try something simple and straightforward:

<http://www.apple.com/macbookair/>

Using your value prop: "Stop losing money on missed appointments"

<comment><USER19> Agree with that. Something like: "(value:) Stop losing money on missed appointments (large font). (how it works:) Send automatic phonecall reminders to your clients."

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> My brother has exactly this problem with a small suburban music school he runs, so much so that I almost wrote something like this for him.

The biggest problem he seemed to have wasn't reminding people to show up; it was having a streamlined process for handling people rescheduling. Scheduling changes create drama for him by forcing him to renegotiate lesson times, and of course it creates bubbles in the schedule.

<comment><USER20> If rescheduling is the biggest problem, this site I used to work on might help: <http://hourville.com/online-scheduling/>

<comment><USER11> How does it handle the rescheduling problem? It's not the "writing down the new appointment" part of rescheduling that is the problem.

<comment><USER20> People can pick their own new spot in the schedule without having to go back and forth to find available times that work for both parties. The empty bubbles can still be a problem.

I might not completely understand the problems he runs into, but I think it could help.

<comment><USER11> When someone books an appointment for Monday and then later reschedules it for Friday, a Monday booking is lost. Every time that happens you give up a booking for free.

<comment><USER20> Ah, so it's not the process, just the fact that a rescheduling happens at all. That sounds like a problem that technology can't fix.

<comment><USER11> Sure it can. Here's a simple response: you have can book an appointment for any available time slot, but you can reschedule only within a limited number of slots.

<comment><USER20> That's pretty good, but how do you distinguish a rescheduling from a new appointment? Are most customers scheduled at the same time every week for long periods of time? If so, that makes lots of sense.

<comment><USER11> That's also just one idea.

It's very easy to track which customers are rescheduling. It may be the case that a timely reminder prevents them from doing so. So that's another technological response to the problem.

Here's another: it is probably the case that rescheduling well in advance is better than rescheduling late. The earlier you reschedule the more economic value your original time slot has. So, it may be that a nudge like this gets you to free up your original spot while it's still saleable.

Those are just random thoughts off the top of my head. I just don't agree that this basic business problem admits to no technical solutions.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> Looks great, Patrick. I just showed this to my boss, who was immediately interested.

One small nit: <http://www.appointmentreminder.org/pricing> says 'HIPPA compliance guaranteed'. It's 'HIPAA'.

<comment><USER22> "HIPAA Compliance Guaranteed" seems like a strong statement to make. Just out of curiosity, can you explain what you mean by that? I mean, if you're allowing "custom reminders" how do you know they aren't recording "Mr. Smith, we have the results of your HIV test and it's positive." or "This a reminder for you to come in for your colonoscopy" or something like that? Are your custom reminders more templated than that?

<comment><AUTHOR> _Just out of curiosity, can you explain what you mean by that?_

It means that, if you don't see a check in that column, you're on notice that HIPAA compliance is _not_ guaranteed. (Looking at my competitors shows that some invest a lot of effort into HIPAA compliance and some insist that it is out of scope for simple appointment reminders. My approach is a little different: I'll deal with the lawyers and regulatory angle, but not right now.)

If in spite of the plain language of the table and eventual language in the TOS folks insist on putting sensitive information on a service which is not rated for sensitive information, I'll say the same thing Gmail or Facebook would: I had no idea they were doing that, did not encourage it, and if you want to sue someone please sue them.

<comment><USER22> I think you misunderstood my question. I'm asking: what are you doing to guarantee HIPAA compliance? I.e., what's different about how you treat those accounts than the others and/or what steps are you taking to ensure compliance?

<comment><USER22> Patrick,

Reading over your response again it seems like you're saying that you're not doing anything to ensure HIPAA compliance and possibly that the HIPAA compliant premium option is only there to contrast with the other account types.

Is that right? If that's the case, why not just cover this in the TOS or with an on-page note like "NB: AppointmentReminder is not currently appropriate for HIPAA sensitive information." (Or some rephrasing of that that makes more sense.)

I'm confused why you're listing an account type you're not really willing to sell, or if you're intending to sell it, I'm curious what you intend to do to ensure compliance.

Of course, if you're not comfortable disclosing your plans here, or if you haven't yet figured them out, by all means disregard this question. I don't have any skin in this, I'm just curious.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> "I'm coming to the market several years behind most of my competitors and will be playing catchup for quite some time"

Unless your competitors have significant secret sauce, playing catchup is a lot more efficient than leading. The unfair advantage that you have is the ability to ask your competitors' customers what they like and don't like about their products. Unlike the competition, you can add/remove features without pissing off existing users.

</comment><comment><USER24> > I went to a small massage parlor

You may want to change your terminology there: [http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=massage+parlo...](http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=massage+parlor)

<comment><USER25> maybe thats the kind of place he was referring to? :)

<comment><USER26> Oldest industry known to man, it could clearly benefit from being slapped on the butt with the modernity stick.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> Warning ahead of time: this review will be critical. I understand this might all be explained away by MVP, but I will give you the notes anyways.

I clicked first to your product site. It looks _terrible_. I almost thought it was a Web 2.0 parody site because of how poor the assets look. The green color of the background doesn't appeal to me at all. Try using a site like <http://www.colourlovers.com/> to pick a proper color scheme. The gradients all have visual banding. The rounded corners are too much. The header bar is clearly influenced by Apple's website, but it looks worse - like a crappy knockoff of a genuine article. There is no catchy wording that explains (concisely) what is going to happen or what this site is. The typography is bad (no headlines? why?).

I clicked Try Demo. First thing I noticed was the calendar. I clicked around a bit on it and liked it, but I ditched the site right after that.

I went to read your blog post next. It all made sense, and I think you have a good plan. I just didn't get close to entering my phone number or experiencing the magic of having it ring. I know that would have impressed me a lot, and I think its not front and center enough. I went back to your site afterwards and I noticed that you have a big paragraph explaining the phone call demo on your calendar page. I had never read the text, I just skipped it and my eyes focused first on the pretty AJAXy calendar.

Try to emphasize the coolness of the phone call demo. Use nice typography and a catchy headline to call my attention to it. Go look at 37signals landing page again. "A better way to work". OK now I am intrigued. Definitely show off your cool AJAX calendar, but don't let it steal the show. The phone call is the magic. Emphasize that.

Hope this helps.

<comment><USER28> > It looks _terrible._

I was actually impressed by the appearance, and I don't see many other commenters italicizing their disgust, so this is probably an overstatement.

<comment><USER29> The pastel green gradient doesn't work at all as the background color.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER30> Very cool. What you do best: providing actual value to real people from customer #1, not fancy high-tech services. I do wonder about your marketing plans, though. Are enough small business owners actively looking for this kind of service that AdWords is going to be a viable option?

And one tech question: what are you using for the calendar? It looks beautiful, like a simple iCal.

And lastly: international phone numbers don't seem to work. I'm sure that's intentional, I just hope I didn't freak out some random person in Iowa reminding them about a fake appointment.

<comment><USER21> The calendar seems to be this one:

<http://github.com/robmonie/jquery-week-calendar>

</comment></comment><comment><USER31> I would bump up the appointments on the $79 plan or add another plan well below the Enterprise plan with many more appointments.

If I were a potential customer that were near that many (and that's only not even 40/day even with weekends factored in), I'd look at that and say "if we expand a little and cross 300/month, we're going to be forced into a plan that costs 7x as much and doesn't exist right now. That's really bad."

That or do some kind of "overage" deal where they can pay n cents per extra.

I'm also not sure how I feel about you not having the .com

</comment><comment><USER32> My biggest concern:

Small businesses already have appointment scheduling systems. Do you plan on integrating with them? Or is Appointment Reminder meant to replace them completely? Or do you expect your users to manually input their appointments into two separate systems?

<comment><AUTHOR> Some small businesses certainly have appointment scheduling systems. One thing I have heard a few times from folks is that they're using Pencil and Paper v1.0. I plan on listening to my customers and iterating appropriately. If it is obvious that their needs include interop or importing, then there will be interop or importing.

In my wildest of fever dreams, solving a revenue-draining pain point is enough to establish a beachhead in the B2smallB mini-enterprise environment, and then I get to eat the elephant from within. ("Since you're already using me for scheduling..." Basically, a 37Signals style approach where each additional product adds synergistic effects from existing customers plus marginal revenue.)

</comment></comment><comment><USER33> It says under pricing only 10 appointments per month.

Who only has 10 appointments per month. And does a person with only ten appointments per month need a service to remind them of their ten appointments. Better yet does a person with only ten appointments have enough money to spend ten bucks on your service.

I can see charging extra for additional users, but the second user should be a discount not 20 dollars on top of the price for the first user. Your argument would be well they get more appointments.

Your appointment reminders give them unlimited appointments that are very low cost to your company. Then limit the amount expensive features per account like sms messages.

<comment><AUTHOR> _Who only has 10 appointments per month._

A teacher who does tutoring twice a week for extra cash. Typical rates at suburban schools last time I was in them were about $40 an hour. You can do the math from here.

Alternatively, a young professional who wants to put in reminders for himself.

 _the second user should be a discount_

Why do you believe this? I get the sense that you're thinking there is some moral significance to a pricing table. I do not believe there is moral significance to a pricing table -- this is simply a pricing discrimination question, and if you have two people who need access to the same account you have just graduated to Definitely A Business and by implication have things like revenue, payroll, accountants, and _money to spend_ on solving business problems which I am happy to take.

 _unlimited appointments that are very low cost to your company_

I charge based on value, not based on cost. My customers perceive value from making appointments and having them kept. This is similar to bingo cards: the marginal cost of a bingo card is zero, but the difference in 15 cards versus 30 cards segments the market, ergo I charge to go from 15 to 30.

</comment></comment><comment><USER34> This particular product is very big in the orthodontic community and has been for quite a while. Televox (<http://www.televox.com>) is one company to check out. Back in the day they sold orthodontists an expensive telephony board and their software used the doctor's own phone system to call all the patients. They now offer reminder calls as an online service.

There are many other companies offering the same services to orthodontists, Televox is just one that I'm familiar with as my customers use them.

So - whether you hate getting these sorts of calls or not there's definitely an existing market for them.

</comment><comment><USER35> Patrick, how did you hire the voice for the premade recordings?

<comment><AUTHOR> I was hoping someone would ask that. Remember fiverr.com, the Mechanical Turk for people with talent, where every task is priced at $5? Somebody was offering to record a phone tree. I paid her $5 for half the job, liked what I got, paid her $5 for the other half, then got her email for ongoing work at a more appropriate wage.

God, I love the Internet.

Incidentally, the total cost of getting this project this far has been about $450, including $250 put on deposit for Twilio. (Better to have too much than too little, right?)

<comment><USER14> A full list of all the tools/services you used for this project would be most welcome. I've got: Twilio, PayPal WPP, Spreedly, Fiverr, and whoever your host is.

<comment><AUTHOR> [Edit: This got overly long. I'll blog it later.]

<comment><USER36> Looking forward to it!

If possible, I'd love to read up on how exactly you moved from concept to product.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER37> If I were you, I'd drop the Wordpress and WooThemes link - it brings nothing to your business and negatively affects those who care about such things.

Do you have experience in B2B? Cold calling and searching for your customer instead of them searching for you? It's a very time-consuming task, much worse in support than B2C.

<comment><AUTHOR> _Cold calling and searching for your customer instead of them searching for you?_

I don't know if this came across in my blog post: cold calling is not in the cards here. I think there is a market niche which exists where it is not profitable to do the cold calling, and believe that I can reach it with scalable approaches like AdWords and AdSense, in much the same way that I reached individual teachers because doing enterprise sales to their school districts would not have been possible.

<comment><USER37> You know, what I think is that this business is not going to work. There just seem so many things unusual about it. If you cross $1500 a month, you're going to have to give a detailed break-down of what made it work, because I bet I would learn a lot.

Just looking at it, my instinct is saying "nah", so if I can retrain and learn some new stuff that would be very useful.

<comment><USER38> If you cross $39,999/month with your biz you'll have to give a detailed breakdown for us here too. ;)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER39> My haircutter absolutely calls me the day before each appointment to make sure I'm going to show. Assuming its cheap yet professional, this seems like a no- brainer for her.

If you could add a way for them to take appointments online that would be killer.

</comment><comment><USER40> [Edit: I just realized the Pricing page says that only on the Enterprise version is HIPAA compliance guaranteed. How can you get away with that? When you deal with personally-identifiable health information (using a person's cell phone number is personally identifiable), HIPAA compliance is not a suggestion, it's a regulation enforced by the Office for Civil Rights. How are the non-Enterprise level subscriptions even legal? ]

I actually built an application like this (but it was as a sub-contractor, so I feel no obligation to promote it here).

The application I built allowed users to set their appointment reminder settings to text and/or call their phone with an automated reminder message. I also made it so that if you hit 3 on the message (there were a few options, but 3 was my favorite), it would give you voice directions to your appointment.

Also, is your appointment reminder application HIPAA compliant? It definitely should be (<http://www.hhs.gov/ocr/privacy/>) since it deals with potentially sensitive health information.

<comment><USER40> I'll just add that I think I was letting my experience in creating this application for medical and dental markets cloud my perception. I guess you are targeting non-medical markets with this application and medical markets only with the Enterprise plan.

</comment></comment><comment><USER41> Thoughts:

The sales pitch is too long IMO. If you end up keeping something like it post- demo you should test alternatives.

The voice talkent is good. A bit too slow for my tastes but you need to do research here to see what people can handle for speed. Maybe faster with an easy "repeat" function. It always frustrates me when I miss something on a recording and can't replay it.

The synthesized voice is really bad. Recording a real voice for every five minute interval (or heck, everything) is not that bad.

I realize the recipient of the call is not your customer, but the faster you can get off the phone the happier they'll be and the cheaper it is for you. If I'm a business owner I'm thinking that people are going to hang up on this. Even though the actual reminder is short you're reminding people of a long call.

Minor "ad copy" bit: I think the people you areselling to are more likely to recognize something like "text message to your mobile phone" than "SMS".

You need some sort of easier way for this to spread. Perhaps that will naturally happen as customers hear about the product.

</comment><comment><USER42> This whole article could be a case study on finding an idea and starting a business.

"I want to be able to say something similar to 'Appointment Reminder will pay for itself the first time it prevents a no-show.'" - despite patio11's humility about sales, this sentence shows he has the right instinct.

</comment><comment><USER43> It's an interesting idea, but I'm not so sure about your price structure. I guess that you don't want to bill for every notification, but have you thought about billing for prevented no-shows (maybe on top of a base-price that includes x appointments)? You could still make the case that your Reminder pays for itself after the first no-show and make more money off of users that benefit more from your product.

Also: I don't know who the target audience for the base-price is. If you know you have 10 and only 10 appointments per month, this plan may be fine, but otherwise? Why not change it to a "1$ for every appointment"-Plan?

<comment><AUTHOR> What do you perceive as the benefit to my business from going from an easy to understand option to a complicated one which requires forecasting, math, complexity, and anxiety about marginal costs nagging at my users every time they sign in?

 _target audience for the [personal plan]_

Productivity bloggers. It exists to give my business something to offer them, because they have something I want, and it is not really their money. _shh_

<comment><USER43> I completely see your point about the fixed rate. However, the benefit of a flexible plan is that you can lower the price of the initial payment and make a little money every time you are really helping your customers (detecting a no-show). You potentially save your customer money and take a fee for this service. I get now that that's not what you want - just wanted to offer a different perspective.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER44> My first thought is how I could subvert this. Will there always be a free demo?

If so, can a religious zealot / abusive ex-spouse / stalker / demagogue / etc use this system to contact their victim(s)?

<comment><AUTHOR> Ahh, a man after my own cynical heart.

While I trust you folks to not be abusive to verify this, if you were to attempt to put in the same number twice, you would get an error message telling you that to prevent spam that is not possible, but if you want to hear the demo again you can call a 877 number from the phone you want to unblock and then follow the instructions to unblock it.

That number is also the outbound caller ID for the demo calls, and explains that the demo call was scheduled by someone on the website, and if you received it in error we're sorry, etc, and you won't receive another one.

You'll note that the free demo doesn't allow folks to actually specify any of the contents of the call. (Well, technically speaking, you can manipulate the time, but that is it.)

Should some person use the paid version of the service in a malicious fashion, I'll do what the phone company would do: block their account and cooperate with the authorities.

</comment></comment><comment><USER45> Great market you are in. I am currently working on a identical application for my day job, although we are focusing on a niche industry we have been serving for a few years. Great design. I know companies that spend $1,000+ a month on reminders and related messages.

Edit: looking at the HIPAA compliant feature I can tell you have done your research very well :). Glad to see you in this space. Looking forward to some "cooperative competition".

</comment><comment><USER20> If you send a message asking if the customer is coming, I'd bet they'd be more likely to cancel. "Not showing up is an acceptable option? In that case..."

<comment><USER46> I agree. A read-through of Cialdini's "Influence" should give us a better idea on how to phrase this. Something like "looking forward to seeing you" is less suggestive of a no-show.

That reminds me, I need to finish that book. I believe it's on the Personal MBA list if that interests you.

[http://www.amazon.com/Influence-Psychology-Persuasion- Robert...](http://www.amazon.com/Influence-Psychology-Persuasion-Robert- Cialdini/dp/0688128165)

<comment><USER47> Is this the personal mba list you are referring to: <http://personalmba.com/best-business-books/>

Or is there another one you find valuable?

<comment><USER46> I glanced at an associate's blog last week and he had his own list of PMBA books reprinted from an original source. That looks like about the same list, yes.

<comment><USER47> Cool, thanks. It does seem like a good list... looking over it, I've read/listened to 4 so far... so only 95 to go! Ya right, but I will try to read one from each category this year.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER48> Three observations:

1) _Redundant Scheduling_

As an AR.org client, I would not revel in the idea of entering an appointment more than once; it also needs to show up in my normal "scheduling" calendar. Possible/partial solution: Google Calendar <http://code.google.com/apis/calendar/>

2) _Zipcar - example #1_

They have a very effective implementation of an app that schedules/extends your car appointment via SMS. It has saved me a $50 penalty on more than one occasion.

3) _Time Warner Cable - example #2_

TWC has an automated call reminding customers when they have an appointment; may be worth investigating. Anecdotally, as a reminder, it has been most handy when an appointment was made a week or more in the future. Of c. 7 appointments over 6 years, I think it effectively reminded me to reschedule 1 of the two appointments I had to reschedule.

One last thought; two factors seem to be driving your choice of business: (1) a focus on under-served niches, parlaying your marketing savvy and (2) unsexy businesses, reducing the potential for competition from technically skilled entrepreneurs... a very practical approach! Anyway, best of luck.

</comment><comment><USER49> .org Yeesh. I assume you're planning to buy .com when its proven itself.

Getting tiny businesses like a Salon to use a web app for scheduling may be very difficult. Many of them probably don't even really have a computer in reception. Maybe you could let them route calls to a phone-based scheduler (then email/SMS in the appointment to the staff).

<comment><AUTHOR> The domainer who owns the .com is known for a resistance to selling and would want 5 figures or more, and the .net is owned by a market leader in the space. I can think of better things to spend my money on.

 _Many of them probably don't even really have a computer in reception._

You're certainly correct, but the market is so much bigger than me that I expect it will not matter either way. We'll see if my prospective customers routinely bring this up as an issue over the coming months.

</comment></comment><comment><USER50> There is definitely a demand for this product.

Idea #1: add a recurring feature. Where I can schedule a phone call or an SMS to be sent every week / month / year on a specific date.

Idea #2: This may complicate your pricing plans a bit. But you want to offer: $79 for first 300 appointments per month. 50 cents for every additional appointment.

Or maybe implement the credit system. Like how istockphoto.com does. $1 for every 2 credits (with a minimum $10 purchase). $79 a/c comes with 300 free credits that last for a month.

Such a pricing strategy helps you retain folks who don't want to or can't get stuck (because of policy) to a recurring payment plan.

</comment><comment><USER51> Patio writes: "So here's a trick I've learned in Japan: there are a million ways to tell people 'no'."

Man, is that ever true, and something we Americans could learn from.

</comment><comment><USER52> I really like the idea, but I would make it even more general. Granted one could use it right now for absolutely everything, but the title says appointment reminder, I would personally use it to remind people interested in e-sports related streams. Here's another idea, having the ability for this to send me IM messages or URL callbacks would be even better.

<comment><AUTHOR> I actually thought "Hey, this would work for WoW guilds" and immediately saw myself getting emails from a bunch of people arguing about how expensive $9 was when they could get email to their iPhones for free. If that market interests anybody here, feel free to go for it! I'll be talking to the 30 ~ 50 year old ladies who pay money for things.

<comment><USER53> Your new venture seems very thoroughly thought-out, and I wish you good luck with it! I bet you've grown tired of hearing "you're an inspiration to us all".

But $770 for a 45-minute dentist's appointment?! Is that normal in Japan?

<comment><AUTHOR> No, it is rather substantially cheaper here. Until recently I had not been wowed by Japanese dentistry, so I got some long-delayed work done last time I was in America on a cash basis. (Happily, when one of the fillings that cost $~X00 popped out and I had to visit the first dentist I found on Google Maps by my office, I had a wonderful experience but for the searing pain of losing a filling, and will be going to him from now on.)

None of the above is intended as a commentary on the relative merits of national health insurance.

<comment><USER53> Alright, I can imagine dental care being expensive in America. I suppose that side is run by the insurance companies too?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER54> This is great. I have no idea whether this idea will work or not, but I really enjoyed reading about your process. It sounds like you have really embraced the lean startup, customer development philosophy. I have to admit that I had never heard of you until I saw you interview on Gabriel's website, but have been intrigued ever since. Thanks for sharing.

</comment><comment><USER55> Good idea, if it were mine I would make text message to cellular the standard notification feature with a fallback to e-mail only if the text message did not go through, or if the customer opted in for it instead of text.

I would also try offering a 15 day free trial for the businesses and sell packages on a quarterly, 6 month and yearly basis vs monthly.

<comment><USER46> Texts are still pricey for some folks, particularly with US cellular carriers. I only just upgraded from $0.20/msg a la carte to a $5/month 200 messages plan.

</comment></comment><comment><USER56> Slightly off-topic. But I am always looking for good web app themes. Is this the theme you have used for calendar app? <http://themeforest.net/item/sharp- admin-template/83085>

</comment><comment><USER57> Reminds me of QLess that just got funded yesterday [http://techcrunch.com/2010/05/13/qless-saves-you-the- annoyan...](http://techcrunch.com/2010/05/13/qless-saves-you-the-annoyance-of- standing-in-line/)

</comment><comment><USER58> It looks like you're targeting medical offices with that enterprise plan, but it just seems far too expensive for them. At that price your service is starting to cost as much as EMRs or practice management software.

<comment><AUTHOR> I'd be one of the cheapest solutions on the market at that price point. Enterprise sales, hooooo. It isn't irrational, either: like I said, if the dentist rescues a single appointment with me, he gets $750 in cash the same day.

That said, as I alluded to, I did not primarily include that plan out of a desire to sell it. It won't be available at launch: it just gives folks fair warning that the other plans are not guaranteed to be HIPAA friendly, and additionally makes everything else I sell look cheap by comparison to what the Big Boys use. As I mentioned, that appears to be essentially all of the space at the moment.

<comment><USER58> Right, I think there are many software niches that are still dominated by over-priced enterprise solutions, and the web is eventually going to destroy them.

If you eventually want to compete with those guys though, wouldn't you rather have a significantly lower price to make people consider switching? Or do you think having too low of a price will make people dismiss your business as shady, unreliable, etc.?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER59> It's funny how you beat me to it :) I am working on pretty much the same product, about to launch in two weeks. It's good to know that you saw an opportunity in this as well. Best of luck.

</comment><comment><USER60> My Blackberry and iPhone let me know when I have appointments.

<comment><AUTHOR> That solves your appointment problem, but it does not solve your _salon's_ appointment problem, because your salon cannot buy their entire clientele an iPhone. They can, however, rely on their entire clientele already having voice service.

This is why Twilio (and related technologies) are so awesome: it turns the humblest cell phone in Africa into something which, for all practical purposes, speaks HTTP.

</comment></comment><comment><USER61> I was wondering why you were not on HN much recently!

</comment><comment><USER62> A Bug?

The "Appointment Reminders" link below the slider should de-highlight when the user mouses over the link beside it, right?

</comment><comment><USER63> Why do these businesses not charge for missed appointments?

</comment><comment><USER64> well, if you look your www.bingocardcreator.com design, this one is much much better ;)</comment>


Sidepact: start a company with a full-time job (Applications close 6/17) - <AUTHOR> https://www.sidepact.com/#joinus <comment><AUTHOR> Cofounders of Sidepact here.

Applications for the next cohort of Sidepact are now open! Sidepact does the work of matching you with a team, establishing shared commitment, and working on a problem you care about.

Over the last few weeks we've received some great applications, signed on advisors from the first batch of YC and the Stanford GSB, and had top-tier VCs commit to Demo Day.

We're hoping to bring you from product validation to the launch of your startup. Hope you'll join us!

Sidepact applications close Sunday, June 17th. If you or someone you know might be interested, chat us at sharon (at) sidepact.com or kevin (at) sidepact.com to learn more!

<comment><USER2> are people able to bring their own early-stage startups to the table or is this all from scratch? I just submitted a Show HN [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17280751](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17280751) and the idea of bringing a project like that to a group is intriguing.

I was working on a similar startup 5 years ago (defunct, called crowdformed) where a group of people would come together to build apps and share in the ownership (like quirky.com for apps). So, I'm a big fan of this type of model, I'll keep an eye on your startup.

<comment><AUTHOR> Yes, absolutely, we think that's extremely relevant. We welcome you to bring ideas, and just ask that you be open-minded too, as you iterate on them.</comment></comment></comment>


Looking for feed-back on my mini Start-up Nz1... - <AUTHOR> http://nz1.us

<comment><USER2> I like that you call a mini startup. Works pretty good, but the layout is kind of all over the place

<comment><AUTHOR> Well it took me about 8-10 hours, and its really not a full fledged start- up... its more of just a content aggregation site.</comment></comment>


Groovy/Grails vs. Ruby/Rails vs. Python/(something)? - <AUTHOR>

<comment><USER2> Take this with a grain of salt, as I haven't tried Groovy/Grails, but in my experience several of the other rails knockoffs were the genuine Rolix's of the framework world.

Rails is not perfect, but ruby and leadership by innovators who think a little different made it what it is. Will you see that in me-too frameworks? Will they ever do more than copy ideas and stay a step behind?

Plus, the difference between a dynamic language and java is something like the difference between travelling at light-speed, vs. faster than light. In Java you travel (code) in a straight line. In Rails or a dynamic language, you can fold space-time so the destination point is only a few lines of code from where you are now. Cleverness gives you more leverage in a dynamic language. ROR is solid enough, and Jruby can run rails now.

Eric

<comment><AUTHOR> Actually, Groovy isn't Java - it's a dynamic "scripting" language that runs on the Java virtual machine (just like JRuby or Jython) - precisely the reason why I want to try it :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> something = Pylons. <http://pylonshq.com>

"Pylons combines the very best ideas from the worlds of Ruby, Python and Perl, providing a structured but extremely flexible Python web framework. It's also one of the first projects to leverage the emerging WSGI standard, which allows extensive re-use and flexibility — but only if you need it. Out of the box, Pylons aims to make web development fast, flexible and easy."

<comment><USER4> Pylons is awesome, but be aware that they're changing the default template to Mako soon, and form handling to ToscaWidgets. The latter doesn't have much documentation yet.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> I highly recommend JBoss Seam:

<http://www.jboss.com/products/seam>

It is quite stable and mature (granted it's around for only a year or so). I've already used it in 3 different projects and IMHO this is the best web framework for Java. The community is very active, and it's leaded by Gavin King (from Hibernate fame).

Apparently Seam supports Groovy now (I haven't tried it yet, but it looks promising):

<http://blog.hibernate.org/cgi-bin/blosxom.cgi/2007/05/07>

<comment><USER6> That's really good news!

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> Python on Planes all the way. <http://pythononplanes.com/>

<comment><USER8> Python on Planes is my framework of choice too! Seriously though, you can do pretty much anything with any of these frameworks - so pick the one you seem to like the best and build something.

<comment><USER9> My favorite feature of Python on Planes is the one liner it takes to make Reddit. It's just Reddit.new(). It even figures out the databases for you automatically.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> I'm currently working with Turbogears (<http://www.turbogears.org)> which is a (real, no snake oil here) python framework. It's not perfect by a long way but it pulls together some really excellent technology from all over the python world.

</comment><comment><USER11> something = Django. <http://www.djangoproject.com/>

<comment><USER12> Anyone still developping with PHP or similar should spend a day trying a framework like Ruby on Rails or Python / ( Django, webpy, ... ).

The advantages of those frameworks are :

\- Way faster development ( less code )

\- No messing with databases

\- Clean structure ( business logic separated from HTML )

===

Arguing wether to go with Ruby or Python with a framework is pointless, their concepts are similar. Choose one tool and get good at using it.

I went with Python and Django because :

\- Python is simple, clean, multi purposes and popular

\- There are many available libraries ( and it has been helpful to me )

\- Django is the python framework with the most contributors

\- Django has good documentation available

===

Django is not the fastest framework but when you'll have to deal with scalability, the solution is to cache and put everything in RAM.

Try the tutorial and see if you like it.

I needed about 1.5 months to get used to the underlying concepts.

My advise is to code as seen in the examples and relax.

Don't worry about optimising, they thought about it for you.

===

Tutorial:

<http://www.djangoproject.com/documentation/tutorial01/>

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> I'm pretty happy with Rails. It's not perfect, but it's _widely_ used, does most of what I need, and looks to be around for the long haul at this point. Ruby's pretty nice too - I like it a bit more than Python, but for pretty much entirely subjective reasons. I think Django would be a good choice too.

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> I am a Java+GWT programmer, interested in exploring Groovy/Grails. Seems like an easier transition & a solid platfrom (the JVM) compared to RoR. Anyone have any experience with it to share?

<comment><USER6> I am just considering giving up my exploration of Grails.

A lot of it seems like fun, but I am not sure if it is mature yet. My progress was very slow because nothing comes natural to me anymore. At the moment I don't know how "save" cascades in GORM. Maybe I am just not made for the Rails type of programming: seems I want to be in control of everything. With Hibernate, I can explicitly define the cascades, plus it is very easy to find out what to do in the documentation.

To be fair you can probably fall back to configuring Hibernate directly with Grails. I think I would rather have a classic Spring/Hibernate application and replace some parts with Groovy/Grails than the other way round. One thing I also don't like is that Grails doesn't use Maven (or gaven or whatever they will call the groovy replacement for maven they will surely eventually create). I am used to not putting binary libraries into subversion any more and don't want to go back.

My other source of frustration is that I couldn't get my grails application to run in Eclipse and therefore I couldn't debug. Also the Groovy plugin is extremly basic, all it does is syntax highlighting, for all I can tell (and debugging, if it would work). Also, Grails produces the longest exception stacktraces I have ever seen, looking for the source of the error in there is no fun.

I feel a bit pathetic - surely I should try harder and dig deeper into Grails, but somehow I can't motivate myself to do it.

That said, I still think it would be 1000 times more fun than classical Java development. I guess I'll just wait for a few version jumps and then I'll try it again. Wish I could find the time to contribute to grails myself.

<comment><USER14> That got me for a while too when I was first learning Rails (the what does "save" do exactly issue).

Personally I prefer letting a framework do its thing and make intelligent defaults, that can hopefully be overridden (usually the case in Rails).

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> What about Perl/Catalyst?

<comment><USER16> I don't know about Catalyst, but I'm very happy with Perl/CGI::Application

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> Groovy is great for writing unit tests for your Java app.</comment>


Ask HN: Ideas to reach experienced, but unemployed professionals - <AUTHOR>

Please lend me your ingenuity.  I'm trying to reach the market of business professionals w/ 5+ years of experience, but are currently unemployed. Ideally, I'd like to find people in the following business functions: corp marketing, corp strategy, biz dev, supply chain/logistics/sourcing, and corp finance.
Any ideas?
Thanks. <comment><USER2> I know companies can get profiles of people looking for jobs through certain job search websites. Can you try and get them?

Are you looking for an easier way out? Or a more 'mass' method?

<comment><AUTHOR> Do you know what the process is for getting those profiles? Does getting profiles also include a way to contact them?

I would prefer a mass method.

Thanks for the suggestion.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> Can you share why you want to reach them? Give a little, get a lot.

<comment><AUTHOR> Sure. I'm working on a startup that's a marketplace for corporate business documents (e.g. business frameworks, financial models, presentation templates). The marketplace is based on the principle that companies/employees waste a lot of time/effort/$ recreating the same documents and redoing the same analyses.

I'd like to reach out to experienced professionals and offer them the proposition of joining my marketplace as sellers. I would like them to have worked for 5+ yrs, so they have the skills and business insights to build quality, relevant documents. I think my value proposition is more attractive to unemployed folks, since they're in need of money and have time on hand to create documents.

Let me know if you need any more detail.

Here is the site: <http://flevy.com></comment></comment>


Checkm8: What you need to know to keep your iPhone safe - <AUTHOR> https://cfenollosa.com/blog/checkm8-what-you-need-to-know-to-keep-your-iphone-safe.html <comment><USER2> Like if your worried about Governments tampering your device if you leave it out sight. I am sure they could easily get Apple SoCs on the gray market that do not have the boot ROM fuses set. So they could write what ever they want to that chip. Like sure they need to extract the key to decode your data. However, they could make it then appear that OS has a problem and needs to restored via iTunes. Sure it might reduce the sophistication needed, and maybe let smaller governments or companies do things. However, it still involves physical access to the device. If an attacker has physical access pretty much any system can be compromised in a lot ways.

If anything this should be a boon to users. It allows them fully to use their devices they own. Honestly, it is inexcusable that apple makes users have to hack their own devices. You should have the option similar to enabling or disabling secure boot on your PC.

As to the market for stolen iDevices. It still exists, but generally involves parting it out. Like sell the screen, cameras, and battery ect... Honestly, while unfortunate that things get lost or stolen. I don't see how this really changes anything.

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> I've been doing some reading this weekend, trying to make sense of the bootloader bug implications, and what to tell "regular users" in order to secure their phones.

The only big question right now is whether the exploit allows an override of the iCloud lock, therefore opening again a market for stolen iPhones.

I'm sure somebody here will be much smarter security-wise than me, so please send me contributions or corrections if there happens to be any mistake!

<comment><USER3> For those extreme enough who don't want to be vulnerable to this BootROM vulnerability should probably buy or exchange their current iPhone for a refurbished iPhone XR or later at this point if you want to be absolutely sure that you want to be safe for this vulnerability since Apple cannot fix this anyway.</comment></comment>


The Hitchhikers Guide to iBeacon Hardware - <AUTHOR> http://www.aislelabs.com/reports/beacon-guide/

<comment><USER2> I give all these ibeacon companies 1 year, before China floods us with cheap iBeacons that works okay. (don't forget, also knockoff SDKs!!)</comment>


How Nespresso's coffee revolution got ground down - <AUTHOR> https://www.theguardian.com/food/2020/jul/14/nespresso-coffee-capsule-pods-branding-clooney-nestle-recycling-environment <comment><USER3> I think I am one of the few people who enjoys all sorts of coffee.

I have had Espresso in many citys in Italy, all the hip Third Wave coffees, but I can still enjoy a Nespresso, a drip machine, Mokka, Turkish coffee, DeLonghi or Jura type coffee or Aeropress. I even find Starbucks has its own taste.

They all taste different. I just don't get the people who insist coffee can not be bitter and Starbucks roast is the devil.

The sneering I get from people who think there is exactly two ways one should enjoy coffee, as super tricked out Espresso, or as mild tea. Seriously.

Yes I have had "good" coffee. Lots of it. I even had a lot of bad "good" coffee.

I sometimes have serious nostalgia for good bad coffee and no one will take it away from me!

<comment><USER4> There's nothing wrong with the taste of Nespresso (it's a little weak for me, but that's personal preference). The reason why coffee pods are awful and need to die is the sheer, disgusting amount of pointless waste they create. Every single cup of coffee requires a small, non-degradable, hard to recycle piece of plastic. Making coffee with a normal espresso machine is so easy. You can learn how to do it in 5 minutes (not barista quality, but at least as good as Nespresso). If you think that cleaning up the mess from a coffee machine is too much work, you are just lazy.

The only benefit I can think of is that you don't need a sink nearby. But in every case where I have seen a Nespresso machine, there is a sink within at most a two minutes walk.

<comment><USER5> > The reason why coffee pods are awful and need to die is the sheer, > disgusting amount of pointless waste they create.

It's funny how people are so high and mighty about the small stuff and then let the absolutely enormous stuff pass completely. Are you this judgmental about living in a stand alone house vs an apartment in an apartment building? Taking plane trips for vacation?

Or do those bog standard—celebrated even—parts of upper middle class life get a free pass while you sneer down your nose at people that don't pull their own espresso shots to save a few hundred ounces of plastic a year "for the environment"?

<comment><USER6> Because one is easy to eliminate, and other things are not (or occurs rarely).

Making 2 coffees twice a day is something that adds up. Same as with bottled water, you can just buy filter flask/bottle/ etc. and use tap water. Or recycling vs not bothering.

This whole argument of: 'Well you drive, or fly, or use coal power etc, so dont bother with little things' it is just cuddling of mind. Conditioning not to care as you can do nothing to change the outcome of anything. So CONSUME!

Yes those are small things but its the mindset that will make you more conscious and less egocentric in a long run.

<comment><USER7> Getting an apartment instead of a house IS easy in most places, it's just a bigger sacrifice which I think is the point. Privileged people unwilling to make sacrifices sneer at others who might actually might be doing a better job overall.

<comment><USER6> > Privileged people unwilling to make sacrifices sneer at others who might > actually might be doing a better job overall.

Yes, I agree though its a bit of a straw-man.

The world would be a better place if we look inwards for things to improve, instead of outwards for confirmations how everyone else sucks.

Also:

>Getting an apartment instead of a house IS easy in most places If you have 2 kids and you work from home, then a 2 bedroom apt will hardly be 'easy', both logistically and mentally.

<comment><USER7> > then a 2 bedroom apt will hardly be 'easy'

The point of the apartment isn't to downsize in terms of number of bedrooms, it's more that heating and cooling something freestanding takes a lot more energy.

<comment><USER6> I don't think you got the point. The point is not to build a straw-man as an argument as I can do it too and it gets us nowhere.

>it's more that heating and cooling something freestanding takes a lot more

What about temperate climate without huge swings in temperature, plus its new house with A+ insulation and solar. So you are more green as you save on electricity.

<comment><USER7> I don't mean to say anything about your specific situation. OP was pointing out that people tend to hyperfocus on insignificant optimizations, and mentioned living situation as a big optimization that almost nobody thinks about.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> > In 2013, the most recent year it released figures, Nespresso's revenues > totalled $10.8bn.

> In the summer of 2020, buffeted by Covid-19, Nespresso trundles on. In a > recent email, a spokesperson reported "mid single-digit growth"

This article has failed to do anything other than convince me that the Nespresso is one of the most impressive products every launched, and has room to take on the US still.

<comment><USER9> Really, I hate how "single digit growth" is somehow a failure nowadays. Millions of companies everywhere don't even grow year or year - <USER2> which found their niche, which employ hundreds or thousands of people and which just operate in equilibrium state where everyone goes home paid at the end of the day and it's fine. No one considers those a failure just because their valuation isn't doubling year on year.

<comment><USER10> If a company isn't growing by at least the equivalent of inflation then it's shrinking, and that can't happen for very long before it can't cover its costs.

Even when inflation is close to zero, interest on debt means that a company that isn't growing won't be able to service it's creditors forever, and it'll fail.

There are plenty of reasons why 'growth at all costs' is a stupid goal, but there does have to be _some_ growth for a business to survive.

<comment><USER11> That doesn't sound right. If I'm consistently profitable and not growing. Prices rise, my inputs cost more, but I can raise my own prices, so my business remains in equilibrium.

<comment><USER12> That would show as revenue growth

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> You can take the Nespresso machine out of my dead cold hands. It improved my life significantly: no more ground coffee spilling all over, no more cleaning and drying the mocha every day, no more having to worry about the right amount of coffee or water, whether I'm drinking too much, why I didn't get crema... It's slightly more expensive than simple mocha but still dramatically cheaper than anything you find in coffee shops (outside Italy at least), and worth the peace of mind. Now they have a saas-like offering so I don't even have to worry about how much I spend, it's automatically budgeted and withdrawn and I just make an order every few months.

The only criticism I have is that most of their varieties are not 100% Arabica, and often it's hard to find out if their "special editions" are. Robusta is bad for your blood pressure, but sadly it's cheaper so it ends up in most mixes. This said, I think their last batch was almost entirely Arabica flavours so maybe they are improving. If you care, I've done a bit of analysis two years ago that covers all classic varieties (I really should update it) at [http://blog.pythonaro.com/2018/04/nespresso-blends- comprehen...](http://blog.pythonaro.com/2018/04/nespresso-blends- comprehensive.html)

(Oh, and fuck Vertuo. I'm happy to read it was an attempt at courting Americans, because from here it looked like just a simple money grab to raise the cost of capsules and maintain exclusivity on the format. No thanks.)

<comment><USER14> Pure arabica could give your coffee sour taste, especially if roasted lightly. 10-15% robusta balances that.

+1 to fuck Vertuo. If someone wants their coffee by gallons - let them get a dripper or kettle plus family-size bag of instant powder.

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> We have one of the ~$400ish red machines at home for 6 years now. It gets used maybe once a week. Every morning we grind beans, and use a French press. We have our normal coffee bean but we love to try different beans. The ritual of making the coffee in the morning is part of the joy I think. Putting the kettle on, the smell of the beans being ground, the smell from pouring the water on the grounds and stirring them. It's a comfortable part of the morning. It's a constant in a world that needs it now.

<comment><USER16> Are you child free? I wake up and just hope for 5 minutes of peace to enjoy a coffee where I can sit, read and drink coffee. Making coffee using a French press would take all that time. Nespresso is a quick thing and I get to enjoy a few minutes of peace before chaos.

<comment><USER15> No, but teenage now. The French press does not really take much time. Night before going to bed setup kettle and grinder. Get up and go to the kitchen, hit the button on the kettle, hit grind. Dump coffee in press. Water is done in 4 minutes. Pour on coffee, stir. Go grab a shower or the like, come back and press down and pour.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> > When you ordered capsules, you joined the "Club", which also meant handing > over your contact information. Over time, Nespresso gained a huge database > of customers it could market to, as well as a way of recording consumer > preferences and buying habits. For customers, the club created the sense > that you were part of a sophisticated worldwide cabal of corporate espresso > lovers. When I first encountered Nespresso, as a student, around 2006, I > remember feeling like I was finally part of the global elite everyone kept > complaining about. "What Nespresso have done is create a lot of benign > bullshit around coffee," said Rory Sutherland. "But people enjoy the > bullshit."

There's a lot in there from the author. It's marketing and building an ecosystem. Surprised this doesn't happen with other drinks like carbonated water.

<comment><USER18> [https://sodastream.com/](https://sodastream.com/)

<comment><USER19> Is it only me or I find marketing around "eco-friendly" not genuine and just a ploy to get you to buy their products?

Like you go to Marriott hotels, low and behold there is a sign on the bathroom towel that says "Please help save the planet" by reusing the towel. Sure it helps, but that's not the reason why they put that sign up. It is to save costs of laundry. If they really want to save the planet, how about cutting down private jets for their executives?

It never feels genuine and unless the product/service is directly contributing help to the environment - like an advertisement for a Solar panel company or a Wind Turbine brochure.

<comment><USER20> You're not the first person to think of this, it even has it's own term. The hotel example isn't as extreme though.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenwashing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenwashing)

"Greenwashing efforts can range from changing the name or label of a product to evoke the natural environment on a product containing harmful chemicals to multimillion-dollar marketing campaigns portraying highly polluting energy companies as eco-friendly. Greenwashing is therefore a "mask" used to cover-up unsustainable corporate agendas and policies."

<comment><USER19> I can rest with peace now. Thank you.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> I've seen a couple comments that nespreso is wasteful. It's worth pointing out the relatively easy to use capsule recycling and composting program. You fedex bags of used capsules and they recycle and compost then (supposedly)

[https://www.nespresso.com/us/en/how-to-recycle-coffee- capsul...](https://www.nespresso.com/us/en/how-to-recycle-coffee-capsules)

<comment><USER22> I would vote for not creating plastic waste in the first time. This is not life saving essential product you cannot live without which you need to produce in mega quantities. What percentage of the capsules is recycled and what percentage ends up in the landfills? Is recycling not energy intensive operation? (Someone even mentioned fedexing used capsules?) I mean single use plastic shopping bags, plates and cutlery are convenient too... why do we try to reduce them ?

<comment><USER23> Why do we falsely claim their pods are plastic? Their competitors use plastic and receive no criticism. They do aluminum and a bag drop program and are trashed

<comment><USER22> I admit I did not do research before posting, my bad. Was not aware they are made from aluminum. But it is still nonsense to create packaging for every 5 grams of product made.

<comment><USER23> At least locally Kcups from Kurig are much more common - 100% plastic. I always thought of the nespresso ones with the recycling bags as more enviro friendly.

But I also thought Apple with its long support lifetimes for products and good resale values was probably better for environment than the android junk with uncertain supply chains, but HN regularly has stories trashing apple has terrible for environment and never says anything about android so who knows.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> Nespresso's machines definitely occupied a cost niche, but were too troublingly wasteful for me. Fellow addicts looking to decapsule-- but not interested in buying a 2k machine which will be killed by scale in 1 year can check out Flair ([https://www.flairespresso.com/](https://www.flairespresso.com/))

It makes professional grade shots, has no unnecessary waste, and has nothing to really break.

<comment><USER25> The ones investing in 2k machines would not be using water that causes that kind of scaling, or they can easily have it descaled.

To others, if you are not familiar with espresso, avoid manual espresso machines - even with consistent top quality semi-auto machines good espresso is not easy, let alone adding even more play into it with a lever machine.

I recommend not getting a home espresso machine at all unless you are really into it. Moka pots, pour over, aeropress are all far far easier, much cheaper, and far less finicky. Save the espresso for a trip to your neighborhood cafe instead - they'll make it far better without the hassle.

<comment><USER26> | Save the espresso for a trip to your neighborhood cafe instead - they'll make it far better without the hassle.

This simply hasn't been born out by my experience making espresso at home. By spending about $7-800 on a Rancilio Silvia and a Baratza Vario, and dialing in my process a bit, I'm able to consistently pull as-good or better shots than the premium coffee places around me (LAX). Granted, you have to be detail oriented to be consistently good, but once you've figured out the variables, it's just process.

This whole experience has taught me that a multi-thousand dollar HE machine is truly only as good as the person behind the portafilter.

<comment><USER25> A baratza vario is what, ~450 USD? So you're over $1000 there.

> and dialing in my process a bit, I'm able to consistently pull as-good or > better shots than the premium coffee places around me (LAX).

Man, that's sad. There are a lot of bad cafes out there - but there are many good ones around me, and I live in a midsized city.

> This whole experience has taught me that a multi-thousand dollar HE machine > is truly only as good as the person behind the portafilter.

The consistency is what matters - a bad barista makes bad coffee no matter the machine. But expensive machines and grinders make more consistent coffee, period, and offer much more chance for variation with PIDs, pressure change, temperature change, etc.

Look, for us espresso afficionados, it may seem easy. But I remember my first machine - it took me a year to pull consistently good espresso shots. Perhaps our expectations are simply different.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> I like the concept of Nespresso but as others have said the waste is the problem. You have to wonder though it seems like a simple problem to solve. In my region a local businessman used potato starch to make "paper" plates. If Nespresso could make biodegradable pod cases that would solve the waste problem.

This article is timely for me I've only just discovered how to make great coffee. I've had a French press and a cheap coffee bean grinder for decades. With a little knowledge I finally made a really good cup of coffee. Nabob beans $4 and a few minutes makes great coffee. It's so great that I went from milky lattes and double-doubles to drinking it black. It's amazing how much a tiny bit of milk or sugar muffles the taste great coffee.

30g coffee beans freshly ground, 450g water, 5 minute brew. It's so simple with a French press no filters no electricity no pressurized steam.

<comment><USER28> As a french person, I wasn't aware of what was a "French press".

With the help of Google I've seen that I perfectly know what it is, but we don't call it that way here and furthermore it's not a popular way of making coffee.

But thanks for the knowledge !

<comment><USER14> Got to New York for the first time, had awful jet lag, found a place for breakfast at 5:30 in the morning. Asked for Americano coffee. The whole diner made big eyes, like "what do you mean?!".

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER29> As much as I hate these pods, I think something like this tech could be used to bring profits from coffee closer to coffee growers. There is a ridiculous amount of middle men in between growers and drinkers. If you can get a factory that can make a product that stays fresh when shipped globally, close to where the coffee is grown. I think some Dutch company was doing this in Kenya.

<comment><USER30> That's a very interesting idea. Any idea of the name of that Dutch company?

<comment><USER29> I think i am remebering this podcast [https://theoryofeverythingpodcast.com/2019/12/wake-up-and- sm...](https://theoryofeverythingpodcast.com/2019/12/wake-up-and-smell-the- coffee/) which covered African Coffee Roasters [https://twitter.com/acr_ke?lang=en](https://twitter.com/acr_ke?lang=en) and Coffee Collective [https://coffeecollective.dk/](https://coffeecollective.dk/) so maybe it was a Denmark company

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER31> Nespresso is great until you realize that you're paying a huge premium to avoid using a spoon out of a coffee bag.

IMHO, it's only slightly better than using that next-gen juice machine we all know.

I have a small espresso machine at home and a 5€ coffee dispenser: 2 flicks and you're ready to brew.

</comment><comment><USER32> Informative article! I'm not a coffee drinker, and I never even heard of Nespresso until the George Clooney ads started in the US (which according to the article was in 2015). I've been under the impression that Nespresso was an upscale rip-off of Keurig; didn't know it had been around since 1986!

<comment><USER33> Apparently he did those adverts to fund his Darfur satellite monitoring.

</comment></comment><comment><USER34> > "People prefer the taste of things when they think they have made a choice > about it."

This is a great story about origins, marketing, and pivoting your product.

</comment><comment><USER35> I have a Nespresso machine and TBH, being able to have a quick ristretto or two literally inside a minute before flying out the door in the morning (pre- COVID19!) was nice -- yet terribly wasteful with the pods.

Usually, it's drop coffee ... in fact my 10 year old $35 Mr. Coffee machine broke recently and I had to (shock horror) resort to a cafetière & kettle (the $30 Mr. Coffee burr-grinder thankfully still worked!). You know what? It's fantastic, 4 minutes and push the plunger. Great tasting coffee ... maybe the Mr. Coffee stays dead. In either case, at least the only environmental impact is bio-degradable coffee grounds (maybe paper filter) and energy to heat water (and grind coffee!).

</comment><comment><USER36> Some scientists brewing herbs for research found Nespresso machines to be almost perfectly efficient.

In my work with residential maintenance I find Nespresso machines extremely common but also frequently broken. They are not easy or cheap to repair so often there is an upgraded unit which also breaks. This raises significant issues with durability and design for disassembly. Going for cheap with a high end product may end up cursing the line over time. What I find enduring are the older type of Cuisinart brewers which are made of relatively robust components that are easy to replace. They are nowhere near as good but endure actual use much better.

</comment><comment><USER37> > The Nespresso system made every customer feel like a connoisseur: you had to > make a choice every time you put a capsule in the machine, even if it was > just between black or purple.

Ironically this is what turned me off. After borrowing a Nespresso machine from my brother and buying ~50 different capsules to try out I got stuck in analysis paralysis and decided to go back to my trusted Bialetti moka.

If anyone's curious out of all the variants I've tasted my favourite were two of the cheapest off brands, Kimbo Armonia and Starbucks Blonde - the rest just felt either too "fruity" or too "acidic" for my taste.

<comment><USER38> The Starbucks Nespresso capsules are actually made by Nespresso, IIRC -- and ironically they're so far the only "third party" brand that I've liked. (Peet's Nespresso capsules aren't as good and they're actually _more expensive_ than the first party ones, and some cheaper ones I got at Bed, Bath & Beyond whose name escapes me were just terrible.)

</comment></comment><comment><USER39> Since there seems to be a lot of hate for the Nespresso, I'll chime in:

I currently have a Nespresso, Aeropress, V60, a few Moka pots, and probably a couple other devices I've forgotten about.

The Nespresso is super convenient and not bad tasting, but I put sugar in my espresso - a grave sin according to coffee snobs in America - so ymmv.

Sometimes I want a shot of coffee but don't want to wait for the Moka pot. Yes a Moka pot is convenient - versus an actual espresso machine - but it's lightyears away from the Nespresso in that respect.

</comment><comment><USER40> I used to have a pod machine, and just found it didn't make very good coffee. It didn't really taste like espresso. In fact, it didn't taste very good at all.

After that, I started using a french press, which was nice, but I like espresso more, and so I got a Sage Barista Express. Great machine, no plastic waste, once you learn to use it you can create coffeeshop-quality drinks at home for very little money–plus you can experiment with different beans.

The difference between a proper espresso and pods is _huge_.

</comment><comment><USER14> > Nespresso's getting close to saturation point, and there's lots of > competition

I would love to give a shot to aforementioned competitors, which would offer comparable coffee quality, equipment price, fully automated brewing process and variety of blends within walking distance in any major city on the planet. Nice boutique-style retail store with competent personnel would be appreciated.

<comment><USER41> Since most patents expired, 3rd party brands started manufacturing compatible capsules in aluminum (plastic copies have existed for a longer time, but Nespresso fights that).

The fact you need to go to a Nespresso shop and/or order online is actually fairly annoying. Most people want to buy coffee alongside their groceries. That's probably biggest reason behind the Starbucks partnership.

<comment><USER14> Ah, you mean competitors are selling capsules, not the entire ecosystem. So, I believe that's how success looks like)

<comment><USER41> Except it's like printers, Nestlé is losing money on most Nespresso machines, so if users start buying significantly fewer original capsules it'll threaten the ecosystem.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER42> The article reads like a hit piece. They kind of raise a question, but never really show that it's grinding to a halt.

According to the article itself Nespresso is still growing:

> In 2013, the most recent year it released figures, Nespresso's revenues > totalled $10.8bn.

> In the summer of 2020, buffeted by Covid-19, Nespresso trundles on. In a > recent email, a spokesperson reported "mid single-digit growth"

</comment><comment><USER43> I eat and drink pretty well. Expensive wines, organic food, barista made coffee, I go (went) to Michelin restaurants, drink good whiskey, I enjoy a good barista made coffee and few things are as nice as getting it in a nice café. I've also had espresso machines and done the whole thing proper.

These days I just have a Nespresso machine which makes great great coffee and if I run out i just drink instacoffee. Once in a blue moon I will have coffee beans lying around and I will make coffee press.

There are coffee puritans out there but they are just not the majority. Nespresso coffee with the right machine and the right flavour is just as good as any barista made coffee.

And with regards to waste, Nespresso offers free recycle bags if people want to be environmentally friendly their is nothing to hinder them (my guess is that most don't really care)

Nespresso offers a great product, great service I don't think there is any risk of them going out of business anytime soon.

</comment><comment><USER44> I think the Guardian may have pinpointed the least pressing question of our times.

<comment><USER45> They were also slightly over-egging it with 'coffee revolution'; it's a slightly different way of making coffee.

I work for a company too frugal to buy an espresso machine and Nespresso is perfect for me at work. Cheaper and quicker than the cafe downstairs, decent taste, and we recycle into a bag and drop them off at the local Nespresso store. It's not a revolution though.

</comment></comment><comment><USER46> Having tried many machines and manual ways of making coffee, is there a real difference between says a Nespresso, Mokka, or a top-of-the-line Jura? I mean, given the same beans etc, is a Jura noticeably better tasting?

<comment><USER47> I don't remember drinking a comparable coffee from a fully automatic machine. Also keep in mind that the top of line Jura has two boilers, which make it twice as expensive, but not necessarily better. I suppose that they're generally targeted to shops; I've seen it only once or twice in a consumer context.

There is a potentially significant difference between a Nespresso and an automatic machine, which is qualitative and adhoc grinding. Producing "nespressos" is fully vertically integrated. They have control over the coffee beans, the grinding process (which can potentially be high quality), and the machine. I doubt that a fully automatic sports a high-quality grinder (I guess that most, if not all, don't have an acceptable quality one).

Regarding moka, there's no comparison. It makes a watery coffee. It's very popular because it's the cheap and easy way to make an "espresso".

</comment></comment><comment><USER48> I always thought Keurig was the first to come up with using the pods to hold the ground coffee but it seems based on this article that it was actually Nestle. Why did Keurig become the default standard in the US?

<comment><USER49> This is talked about in the article. The Nespresso didn't quite catch on in the US like it did in europe. Americans generally prefer to drink larger quantities of coffee, often in the car. This does not lend itself well to espresso. As such, K-cups got much more traction

<comment><USER50> Yup, plus the K-Cup machine is higher profit and lower cost to build than a Nespresso machine. The BoM for Keurig is incredibly low for the selling price, something like $12 on a $130 machine. They flipped the razor and blades model and managed to make massive profit on both the razor and blades. I'm starting to see evidence that Keurig is struggling now however, They have launched much cheaper models and are all over the place looking for hits including ground coffee. I think they realized that they are known for 'meh' coffee and know that that brand wont get them to where they want to be next.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER51> Every cup of coffee also produces one piece of plastic garbage. This is one of the most wasteful machines and anyone that cares about the environment should throw that machine in the garbage.

<comment><USER8> > Every cup of coffee also produces one piece of plastic garbage

You didn't read the article and you've misidentified the product.

</comment></comment><comment><USER52> If Investment Banking is anything to go by, these aren't going away any time soon.

Normally each desk of traders has one shared machine for people to shotgun espressos when they need to.

</comment><comment><USER53> What revolution?

Capsules are wasteful and expensive and you have no idea what's in them.

No capsules for my home use thank you.

I considered getting a fancy expresso machine that grinds the coffee for you in place at the press of a button, but I decided against it because I'm likely to overdose on coffee with one.

Filter coffee is good enough for me thank you.

<comment><USER54> Pretty much everyone and his mother in Europe has a capsule coffee machine.

P.S.: I won't comment about the filter coffee remark as it's clearly bait ;)))

<comment><USER53> Nope. Even from my coffee snob friends, only one has had a capsule machine and abandoned it anyway. And he's the kind that owns 3 different french presses to start with.

<comment><USER54> Is that in Europe? I mean, I don't know anyone that does filter coffee in Europe to be honest. Not trying to be snobby, it's just different habits I guess (e.g. a watery black coffee is known as "Americano" in most places in Europe I've been)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER55> It would be interesting to see how much impact better espresso machines and cheap grinders are having on Nespresso.

A decent burr grinder, a Nanopresso and a milk frother is much cheaper than a Nespresso and does something as good.

$AUD 10 Aldi beans with that is cheap and excellent.

<comment><USER56> I can't comment on the actual numbers for Australia, but in the UK at least, there are online shops like hasbean that will roast & grind for you for roughly the cost of a bag of premium supermarket coffee. It'll save you the outlay of a grinder (and it's ground with a grinder that will be far more consistent than what you buy).

<comment><USER57> But freshly ground coffee is so much different to pre-ground. Once ground, it starts oxidising immediately, so will start to affect the taste pretty quickly.

<comment><USER58> Apart from being fresher, the grind is also one of the ways you control the pressure you extract at in an espresso machine.

Depending on the machine you can either time the shots, use a pressure gauge or just look at the flow coming out and verify by taste.

It's not much more complicated than if the pressure is too low the shot will taste sour. So you adjust the grinder to grind larger.

If it's too low the shot will be overly bitter. So then you grind smaller.

I'm told the ideal pressure is 9 bar but really taste is the real test.

Once you have the grinder dialed in it will probably be fine for the entire batch of beans and only need tweaking when the next batch comes in. (Although if you may have to tweak it as the bag ages.)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER59> I have a Nespresso, but the novelty of home espresso quickly wore off. They also do regular coffee pods for the machine I have, but I ended up going back to the Keurig for its easier to find consumables.

<comment><USER38> At least in my experience, Nespresso makes decent -- not amazing, but decent -- espresso pretty consistently, but a Keurig rarely makes a decent cup of brewed coffee. The Nespresso is brewing pretty much the same way a non-capsule espresso machine would, but the Keurig is _not_ brewing the same way a non- capsule coffee brewer would.

</comment></comment><comment><USER60> Pre-ground coffee is limited in quality, as it'll always be stale when it goes into a mass production process as used by Nespresso. You need to be grinding only <15 minutes before brewing to get the best flavour.

Likewise, you really want to be using beans within 2 weeks of them being roasted, which will never happen either.

Nespresso suffers from old stale coffee, plus each pod contains nowhere near enough coffee grounds to make even a vaguely strong cup of coffee.

Separate to all the waste issues, the coffee is weak and tasteless and to be honest, I'd prefer a high end instant coffee vs. Nespresso any day, as I can at least make it stronger.

To get nice coffee you need to start with fresh beans, and use enough of them. I find a quick filter coffee to be much preferable 100% of the time.

<comment><USER61> Unpopular opinion: the snobbery in the first two sentences is misdirected. Those absolutely are not requirements for most coffee drinkers. I mean, I do the food snob thing for a lot of items, but coffee just barely qualifies relative to areas where there is genuine variability (tea, cheese or wine, say). For 95%+ of drinkers, coffee is coffee and the only really signficant distinguishing qualities are the roast (which persists on a shelf) and brew strength.

Note that I'm not saying that there aren't coffee snobs who feel strongly about this. I'm saying that the nature of the product is that there will never be enough of them to matter.

</comment></comment><comment><USER62> >"In 2013, the most recent year it released figures, Nespresso's revenues totalled $10.8bn."

<comment><USER50> I wish I could 'fail' that badly.

</comment></comment><comment><USER63> Its not as good as freshly ground beans. <insert clip of Baron Harkkonnen>

</comment><comment><USER64> I like powdered instant coffee with condensed milk, now kill me.

<comment><USER65> At least this produces far, far less waste than Nespresso-style. And, depending on exactly how they process it, may end up 'fresher' than coffee brewed from old ground coffee.

</comment></comment><comment><USER66> A $5 plastic Melitta pour-over filter holder and a kettle make better coffee than any machine.

<comment><USER38> They don't make better _espresso_ than any machine. Pourover is not espresso.

<comment><USER67> I don't know what it is technically, but if I wanted something more _like_ espresso, I would use a moka pot instead. Not capsules.

<comment><USER68> Nespresso isn't technically espresso either, as Wirecutter points out ([https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/best-nespresso- ma...](https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/best-nespresso-machine/)).

That being said, I was under the impression moka pots require a lot of cleanup. For drip, there's a lot of competition, notably the AeroPress, that's only slightly less convenient than the Mr. Coffee machine. But I'm not aware of a product like that for espresso-like drinks.

<comment><USER38> I think I'll gently disagree with Wirecutter here, as much as I like them. The Nespresso machine may make _thin_ espresso, but it's still espresso -- it brews its espresso the same way a non-capsule machine does.

Moka pots are a little fiddly to clean and, well, a little fiddly in general, I think. I use an Aeropress for brewing most of the time because it's less so. You can make, hmm, "espresso-ish" coffee with it -- it's also actually brewing coffee for a shorter amount of time than usual with greater than usual pressure, when you think about it! -- but I'm generally aiming to get an 8 or 12 ounce cup of normal brewed coffee.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER69> People who prefer brewed coffee over the Nespresso are coffee snobs. Those who prefer Nespresso over it's cheaper competitors are... just savvy consumers, I presume

</comment><comment><USER70> because its shit coffee.</comment>


6 Mind-Bending Solutions to the Fermi Paradox - <AUTHOR> https://medium.com/@RadioOpenSource/6-mind-bending-solutions-to-the-fermi-paradox-c0f32e47a0f7 <comment><USER2> _They are among us and they call themselves Hungarians._

That has to go on a t-shirt.

edit - looking at it this story gets even better. I have heard about the Fermi paradox loads of times, I can't believe I had never heard of the martians before - [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Martians_%28group%29](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Martians_%28group%29)

 _" The galaxy of scientific minds, that worked on the liberation of nuclear power, were really visitors from Mars. They found it difficult to speak English without an alien accent, which would give them away, and therefore they chose to pretend to be Hungarian, whose inability to speak any language but Hungarian without a foreign accent is well known. It would be hard to check the above statement, because Hungary is so far away."_ \- Fritz Houtermans

</comment><comment><USER3> There's a whole _book_ of solutions that people have thought up over the years:

 _If the Universe Is Teeming with Aliens ... WHERE IS EVERYBODY?: Fifty Solutions to the Fermi Paradox and the Problem of Extraterrestrial Life_

by Stephen Webb

</comment><comment><USER4> ... or some others:

7: The universe is larger than our visible light cone. "They" may be "hiding" outside of our visible universe.

8: (even more mind-bending) "They" are hiding in the dark matter, i.e., they ARE dark matter :P

A serious question to some scientist: assuming there exsits an alien civilization that is, say, a million years old, 500 000 ly away, and that they communicate in the spectrum we can detect. Wouldn't their EM radiation be overwhelmed ("erased") by star and other activity on its way to earth?</comment>