Klutz Press: books built for learning stuff - <AUTHOR> https://www.charlieharrington.com/create-wonderful-things-be-good-have-fun <comment><USER2> I'm John Cassidy the founder of Klutz Books and right now I'm sitting shotgun in a long car ride. I'm so impressed that people have 20 year old memories this sharp. If you want to know about Klutz back in the day, Ask Me Anything...

<comment><USER3> Dude! We were regulars at the store off El Camino when i lived in Palo Alto in the 80's. We probably bought 10 Aerobies there. Then you had a pretty good mainstream bout through the 90's. Thanks for the foxtail, juggling, harmonica, timer games knots and all the frivolity. I swear Klutz shaped my personal ideology.

<comment><USER3> Also, I can hang a spoon off my nose.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER2> The books on science that we did were the fruit of a fabulous collaboration between us and the SF Exploratorium, the finest museum in the world (personal opinion). Paul Doherty, PhD physics MIT, was their chief scientist and the source of all scientific knowledge as far as I was concerned. Our other mentor was Martin Gardner for all things magic and odd. Check out Martin's wiki article sometime. His brain was bigger than anybody's. We worked w him on titles that were on magic or mischief...world class guy.

</comment><comment><USER4> I originally learned to 3 balls from the Klutz juggling book as a kid, and still have largely fond memories of it.

I have a slight sour taste from the very end of the book, which discourages people from trying to go to higher numbers such as 5 balls. So after learning 3 balls, I set juggling aside. Much later, after meeting jugglers and seeing what people could do in videos online, I was inspired to learn a lot more... including 5 balls.

If you want people to excel, don't tell them they shouldn't expect to be able to do things, and that it's not worth the effort.

<comment><USER5> I remember a Discovery Channel documentary that said it was easier to teach a complete novice how to juggle 5+ balls than it was to take a self-taught 3baller and get them to 5.

Something about learning 3 on your own makes it almost impossible to shake the bad habits to get to 5+

<comment><USER6> A lot of people hold this belief that knowing how to do X with an "incorrect form" is worse than not knowing at all, if you want to progress at doing X.

In programming we have debugging. You have a program that does X, but with some bugs. You later improve the program by removing the bugs.

Why can't we do this in "real life" as well? You learn how to add multi-digit numbers from right to left. You then later relearn that by going from left to right. You learn to swim with your head above the water, then later learn to keep your head in the water, and turn it every two strokes to get a quick breath.

In fact, I read about this concept of "debugging" bad habits exactly in the context of juggling. Seymour Papert covers this in Mindstorms [1], p 111. He explains that the most common "bug" that prevents people from performing 3-ball juggling is following one ball with the eyes. Once you are aware of that, you the fix is quite easy: keep your eyes pointed at the apex of the ball's trajectory. In a later chapter he goes on to say that other things can be "debugged" as well; one example is relearning skiing to replace a v-type position to a parallel ski position.

[1] [https://www.amazon.com/Mindstorms-Children-Computers- Powerfu...](https://www.amazon.com/Mindstorms-Children-Computers-Powerful- Ideas-dp-0465046746/dp/0465046746/)

<comment><USER7> I am a pro artist and IMHO almost _every single artist in the world_ probably started by learning terrible habits that they had to painfully unlearn. In modern times an astounding number of them (myself included!) have a period where they resist this painful process with cries of "It's my _style!_ ".

<comment><USER8> I identify with this quite deeply.

One thing that your idea prompts is thins: as I have gotten better at learning things I have gotten better at just adopting as-close-to-perfect form as I can from the get go.

When I learned to play guitar at age 20, I had horrible form, and I did go through a period of unlearning habits (after a period of trying to have a "style" LOL).

When I learned to play pedal steel guitar in my late 30s, I was careful to start with good habits from the get-go. Same with snow skiing, banjo, and yoga. :D

I dunno how I'd approach this lesson when dealing with younger folks... it was a painful process, but learning that starting with good habits/ form makes things so much faster and easier is maybe just a thing people have to experience on their own.

<comment><USER6> I learned to swim on my own as a little kid. 30 years later, I decided to join swimming classes; I saw that swimming is extraordinarily complex. There are too many things to learn at the same time for someone to be able to pay attention and learn proper form for all of them. Inevitably, you'll learn proper form for one thing, and incorrect for many others, then, with one good habit in the bag, you can start focusing on the next one, then the next one, then the next one. From time to time, you will fall back to the old habits for some certain part of the motion, so you'll need to revisit it, and debug it again.

Tom Brady, who many people consider the greatest quarterback in the history of American football, still has a throwing coach (Tom House [1]), and he's still debugging his throwing motion. After 20+ years of throwing in a professional league.

So, for sure, unlearning habits is difficult, but learning only proper form from the start is probably an exceedingly rare exception. I think for most people the process of learning will involve learning incorrect form first, and attempting to fix this later.

[1] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_House](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_House)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER2> I was a parent Of two boys during that chapter and marinating in kids. I remember I got turned down by LEGO when I first went to them for a license to do a book but the boys told me not to take no for an answer. We ended up doing a deal because I pretty much had to. Btw, when Klutz was only about ten minutes old, I got a note from a scientist describing a little book he'd written on how to solve a new puzzle that was just getting traction. I turned it down because I figured any puzzle that was so hard people needed a book to solve it would never take off. His book sold 8 million copies later that year when he sold it to a big NY publisher. I'm still not sure where my logic went wrong. Does anybody still have a copy? The Simple Solution to the Rubik's Cube by J. Nourse?

<comment><USER9> Logic like "you can't sell book to teach things that are hard" is true relative to the popularity of casual nonfict and fiction, but not within the niche of people who like learning things. Why would Rubik's cube be different from juggling?

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> They had a small store at on College Ave in Palo Alto for years. It was near their headquarters, so while you could get every one of their products there, it also functioned as a kind of beta-test distribution point; some of the items were sold on a "we're trying this out locally" basis. The whole place was colorful and inviting, and very kid-friendly.

The store closed in 2009, well after they had become part of Scholastic. The remaining product line looks to be just a "greatest hits" collection. Sad.

</comment><comment><USER2> In response to the idea that beginners should not be taught in ways that need to be unlearned later on if they take it to higher levels: I agree. However, I also believe the greatest impediment for most people to learning anything is internal. But that's not to say it's some psych out thing that can be overcome w a better attitude. Internal problems are entirely real and need respect. Confusion and frustration are central to the learning experience and a good teacher makes it central to teaching as well. Richard Feynman is a great teacher and his books do not teach stuff you need to unlearn even though he teaches simplifications all the time. I cannot say the same about all of my books! Apologies!

</comment><comment><USER2> So I'm back to this thread after a turn at the wheel. What am I up to now? I'm teaching part-time at Stanford a class on creativity. I'm also writing (at a snails pace) an adventure novel. And I spend a lot of the summer in a little town along a river in Idaho. Where we're driving right now...

<comment><USER11> Hi John. Wanted to share a story of appreciation!

I've actually got the Klutz friendship bracelet book sitting right next to me. My sister got it as a gift when we were kids (17 years ago) and I appropriated it when she didn't use it after a year.

That book not only gave me a lifetime hobby, but it also helped me create my first business at the age of 15. Helped me learn the lesson that if you deliver quality, you can sell a product at 20x the market rate. I would sell the totem pole bracelet designs at a premium to my friends who wanted it for their girlfriends. I'd sell chevrons and other diagonal based patterns to friends who wanted their school flag colours. Sold the latter at a premium too because the material I got with the Klutz book didn't fray after the first wash (helped me decide what materials to continue to purchase later on).

All this helped pay for several shows and sporting events I wanted to go to.

I continued to make bracelets for my girlfriend (now wife) and those ones are seated on the table in our bedroom.

That book created a ton of good memories. But it got left behind when I left home when I was getting married :( .

Recently I discovered it at home and the clip (rusty) still works. And now I'm teaching my 4 and a half year old son the art of friendship bracelets too.

All that from 1 book. Thank you for all the memories given and the memories to come.

</comment></comment><comment><USER2> The Klutz ideology (so to speak)was embodied by Calvin. He was my ObiWan. We had a corporate mantra, WWCD? Still works even today. Btw, the Aerobie was invented by our good friend Alan Adler who also invented the Aeropress, the coffee maker that's got a large online (and offline) following. Alan is an engineer's engineer. He only makes stuff that works...

<comment><USER12> Sorry, who is Calvin? Can't find any reference.

<comment><USER13> Calvin and Hobbes

Calvin: "That gives me a _fabulous_ idea!"

[https://www.google.com/search?q=calvin+and+hobbes&tbm=isch](https://www.google.com/search?q=calvin+and+hobbes&tbm=isch)

Hobbes: "Uh oh"

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> The _Explorabook_ remains a highlight of my childhood. John Cassidy wrote it in collaboration with the Exploratorium and included a magnet bar, agar gel, diffraction grating, mirror, Fresnel lens, Moire spinner, and other fun stuff. More importantly it was written in a humorous, accessible way that didn't talk down to you and stoked wonder. For example, the section on light talked about how lenses worked but also hinted that light had both particle _and_ wave behaviors (e.g. interference from the diffraction grating), which blew my mind as a kid.

<comment><USER15> Do you remember if this was the one that had a metal cover, and a page written from the point of view of a soda can that had been recycled into the cover?

I'm trying to remember the title of my favorite Klutz book and your recollection sounds the closest.

<comment><USER16> That was Earthsearch. Definitely my favorite childhood book.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> Klutz books were a huge part of my childhood. I remember the Koosh book fondly (came with an eponymous Koosh ball, of course), as well as the Bubble book (came with a device you could use to make absolutely enormous bubbles). Recently got the "LEGO Contraptions" book for my son (comes with all the LEGO pieces you need to make everything in the book), and it's just as great as I remember the others being. If this post is the first time you've heard of them, I highly recommend checking them out!

<comment><USER18> The LEGO Contraptions book is great! About six or so years ago I got it for my 12yo son, and I honestly had as much or more fun with it than he did. I had never played with gears, so learning how they interacted and how the ratios worked, was enlightening to me. I ended up buying a set of LEGO Technic Idea books [1], then a massive crane set with motors, etc. just to keep playing with it all. Seriously, the amount of money I spent as a result of that one book is obscene.

1\. [https://www.amazon.com/gp/bookseries/B01N9XHU2M/](https://www.amazon.com/gp/bookseries/B01N9XHU2M/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER19> So many fond memories of Klutz.

Apparently there's a company called Cassidy Labs that's bringing back (and in some cases, improving on) some of the Klutz originals (e.g foxtail, now with an LED so you can play at night). Hope they do well.

<comment><USER20> fwiw, Cassidy Labs is in fact from the same folks -- it was founded and is run by John Cassidy's son.

[https://www.cassidylabs.com/pages/about-the- founders](https://www.cassidylabs.com/pages/about-the-founders)

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> Home for the holidays I found my copy of the Klutz book of Knots. I spent an hour on the floor having fun, took the book home, and have been referencing it all year for everything from shoelaces to extension cords.

Some are more eternal than others (Icky Poo) but as a child I never had one that I didn't completely devour. Any time I need a gift for a friend's young child, Klutz immediately comes to mind.

<comment><USER22> I was wondering how the OP could have neglected to mention the klutz book of knots! It came with two lengths of rope (one red one blue, just like the illustrations). I still regularly use the bowline, sheet bend, and clove hitch - although my bowline technique is quite different (and much faster) these days.

The juggling book also worked for me. Good times.

<comment><AUTHOR> Because I never had the knots book! And my knots are still suffering for it (I lost a fishing lure yesterday as a direct result of not having this Klutz book as a kid).

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> Their catalog was really something special, including tons of stuff that couldn't be found alongside their well-known books in a bookstore. Off the top of my head: chartreuse fuzzy monster paw gloves, a selection of "fancy" yo-yos with ball bearings and such, a cigar box that came pre-loaded with an assortment of covet-able childhood knickknacks. All of it (or at least everything I ever ordered from them) was highly-curated high-quality stuff—-no dollar store junk!

</comment><comment><USER24> If you want to learn how to juggle, I believe the Klutz book is the way to start. However, I must warn you to be patient and take your time to learn and practice the very important toss so that it is accurate and precise and minimalistic. Otherwise, you may end up like me with bad tossing habits who looks like someone doggie paddling in the air while trying to juggle.

<comment><USER25> This is me. I also learned from the Klutz books, and at the time (when I was 12 or so) I was pretty meticulous. In the time since, however, I haven't kept the skill up and now I can barely keep three balls in the air.

</comment></comment><comment><USER2> Thanks for all the kind words! I'm humbled! I'm trying to respond to everyone but the software or admin tells me I'm "posting too much" so I have to slow down. Let's see how this post does...

<comment><USER26> Hi John, welcome to HN! Argh, I'm terribly sorry that you were getting rate limited and have turned that off now (I'm a mod here). Our software does that because of past abuses by trolls, and the fact that it also affects users who show up here to discuss their work is the thing I hate most about our entire system.

Please comment as much as you like. I've also unclogged the pipes so that your blocked comments have now all gone through.

</comment></comment><comment><USER27> One of their books that provided endless entertainment to me as a child came with a working stopwatch and provided prompts for random things to do against a timer (how fast can you re-lace your shoelaces, do 10 jumping jacks and say the pledge of allegiance 5 times, draw a gorilla that somoene else can tell is a gorilla, etc) and compete against the records published in the book, or make up your own challenges. I found a used copy a couple weeks ago and sent it to some friends' kids in the mail. Their books felt honest and fun for children, not pandering, immature, or fake-educational.

</comment><comment><USER28> The paper airplanes book is fantastic. More then once I've got a group of 10 children concentrated for a couple of hours just making planes and coloring them.

</comment><comment><USER29> Man, I looooved those books when I was a kid. My parents bought me the Klutz book that came with polymer clay and it was wonderful. I also had the one for paper airplanes, which ruled. Almost makes me want to order some polymer clay again.

[https://www.amazon.com/Incredible-Clay-Book-Klutz- Press/dp/1...](https://www.amazon.com/Incredible-Clay-Book-Klutz- Press/dp/1878257730)

</comment><comment><USER30> I learned so much about Yo-Yos from my Klutz book as a kid. It's STILL on my shelf... although the wooden yo-yo that came with it is long gone.

<comment><USER31> That Klutz wooden yo-yo may well have been the secret sauce to learning, my cousins and I all bought the Klutz book mostly for it.

Duncan Imperials are thinner and the de facto standard for yo-yos, Butterflies are good for tricks but a little unwieldly, but the Klutz was a happy medium between the two and perfect for beginners and we always wound up falling back to it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER32> I have the Magicians book on my bookshelf today. And at 42, I'm still referring to it! My daughter just had her 6th birthday and wanted me to perform a handful of tricks. That was one of my first places to look for some things that'd entertain her and might be suitable to teach forward.

</comment><comment><USER33> I spent countless hours with these books as a child. My aunt owned a small gift shop and sold all the Klutz books. Every birthday and Christmas, we'd visit and she'd let me take one home for free. Among my favorites were:

Magnetic Magic, which featured a metal cover and five ring magnets

Kids Travel: a Backseat Survivors Guide, this was one of my favorites since it seemed to have a little bit of everything, but I really liked the puzzles included

The Klutz Book of Magic, with fake thumb for doing a disappearing handkerchief trick

I even sent a letter to Klutz (using an address from inside the book) asking for a catalog. I dreamed of owning all of their books and learning everything they had to offer. Nothing else in my childhood inspired such wonder as these books.

</comment><comment><USER34> I absolutely loved the Explorabook as a kid. I loved even more finding out (at 18) that there was a museum that helped create the book. I still try to make it to the Exploratorium nearly every time I go to SF.

</comment><comment><USER18> I learned both juggling and harmonica from Klutz books! (I'm horrible at these things, but that has little to do with the books). I had no idea they were started in Palo Alto, but it seems perfectly suited. Over the years I've bought these books as presents probably a dozen times.

What's fascinating to me is that this is yet another product of Silicon Valley and the Bay Area, even though it has nothing to do with computers. It reminds me again of why I moved here from across the country 25 years ago.

</comment><comment><USER35> I got the science explorabook as a kid and I really loved it. It had a bunch of cool diagrams and neat little experiments. Just seeing this reminds me to buy one for my daughter.

</comment><comment><USER36> I bought the Klutz Book of Card Games during my high school years in the late '80s. The best part IMHO was the section on solitaire games, which provided several superior alternatives to Klondike. I played quite a bit of Yukon during my freshman year of college.

I still have the book, as well as the deck of cards that came with it. The tuckbox has held up surprisingly well!

</comment><comment><USER37> Love these books. I particularly loved the juggling and paper airplane books. Loved learning how to make some cool flying planes.

</comment><comment><USER38> ~32 years ago, I used a klutz book to learn to juggling. The book is long gone, but I still have the juggling balls.

</comment><comment><USER39> I had, and still have, 30+ years later, the juggling & harmonica books, as well as the bags and, somewhere, the cassette. Very fond memories. I recently pulled out the juggling book as my girlfriend took a juggling class with a few friends while traveling and wanted to keep going once she got home.

</comment><comment> tom-thistime The juggling one worked perfectly for me.

<comment><USER40> I didn't, keeping the balls/sacks in one plane before me seems beyond my manual dexterity.

Haven't succeeded with Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain, either ;)

<comment><USER41> Keeping them in that plane is the biggest hurdle to get over for a lot of people. Try juggling in front of a wall. Or standing over a desk against a wall (no chasing drops). You can even keep juggling bounces off the wall. Also, lots of practice with just two balls doing the exchange.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER42> I had Cat's Cradle, Magician's Book, and I think an Orgami one. Fun times.

</comment><comment><USER43> The Klutz Lego and Paper Airplane books stand out in my mind, but I know there where a ton of them. One of those few companies that actually managed to nail 'cool.' Not many companies managed to do that back then.

</comment><comment><USER44> Thank you for reminding me of this. As an 8 year old, this was hours of good fun, and frankly, I viewed them as guides on how to be kid.

I wish I still had them.

</comment><comment><USER45> Does anyone have a link for where these books can still be bought? Would love to gift them to younger family members.

</comment><comment><USER46> Featured on "stuff you should know" this week

</comment><comment><USER47> So like a textbook?

</comment><comment><USER48> I had many of the Klutz books as a kid - the explorabook was my favorite.</comment>


Opera - The End of an Architecture PowerPC - <AUTHOR> http://my.opera.com/desktopteam/blog/2010/08/30/tea

<comment><USER2> Ah, my favourite browser. They never fail to amaze me. First it was tab browsing. Then the mouse gestures Then the speed dial.

What's next?

Better for them to channel their resources to improving their product than support a dying architecture

<comment><USER3> Really? I came to know Opera as the browser that runs best on older hardware with constrained resources; seems like they are abandoning the principles from whence they sprouted.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> It's for the best I'm sure. Opera was enormously buggy on my PPC laptop anyway, to the point of being pointless to try and use. But it remains the best browser around on every other computer I use, so consolidation of effort seems like an appropriate decision.</comment>


Ask HN: How did you take your freelance web development biz to the next level? - <AUTHOR>

A little more than 3 months ago, I asked HN what the best way was to go about securing RFP's and getting bigger clients.
In the three months between then and now, I wound up building a substantial (mid 5 figures/mo) dev consulting business business focused on single page applications for mobile and desktop. Some of the clients have been large companies (fortune 500) but there are a bunch of smaller nonprofits and smaller companies as well.
I would consider this my first successful business and while that makes me warm and fuzzy inside, I'm running into an issue where my time can only go so far. I have more projects than I can handle as a single person and I'm going to have to figure out how to either A) scale up or B) say no and accept the cap on my revenue.
I'm hoping some folks here can tell the story of how they took their freelance consulting business and turned it into a full fledged dev shop with employees/a process to getting and keeping clients.
Specifically, I'm interested in the following topics:
1) When did you know you had to hire your first employee? What triggered it/how did you go about doing it/making sure your quality remained the same?
2) Outsourcing vs. On shore consultants vs. Full time hires? What decision did you make and why?
3) What run rate were you at when you decided to staff up, how did you avoid cash flow issues?
4) When did you first build a formal system/division for sourcing/managing clients?
I have many more questions but I'd love to hear your stories and any advice you may have about the process of going from freelancer --> devshop. <comment><USER2> I would avoid off shore developers at all costs. It'll be more costly for your business if you didn't pick the right ones, or not managing them correctly.

Even if you did pick the right developers, you will have to spend time to teach them about design. Design is completely off when it's done offsite.

<comment><AUTHOR> Agreed, I've never had a design come out nicely from offshore. Maybe I worked with the wrong folks but it has been consistently poor every one of the times I tried it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> Is scaling up or accepting a cap on your revenue your only options? How are you currently billing? Hourly/weekly? Have these rates really been maxed out?

I've been a part of and seen multiple consultancies that have crapped out because they tried to convert between a single consultant to a devshop too soon. A big reason is the thought that you can somehow avoid issues with a good run rate or savings (which is sometimes conservatively advised to have at least 30K in the bank per new hire). Don't get me wrong, cash will still come in but you will suddenly find yourself managing the quality/work, expectations, and livelihood of another person. A good first step is to hire a on shore consultant (to mitigate the possible communication gap) and see how that affects your bottom line and overall quality of life.

</comment><comment><USER4> I'm afraid I don't have much input on your questions since I'm not there yet.

Since it appears you've had quite some success getting leads I'd like to ask you a few questions regarding your last HN post:

1) Did ariba work out for you ? If not how did you get the opportunity to bid on large company RFP's ?

2) What did you have to do to demonstrate that you were a credible supplier for these clients ? You mentioned having done work as a subcontractor. How were you able to valorize that work as representative of your own capabilities ? Were these publicly visible projects, even if your name wasn't on them ?

3) Did you have to jump through a lot of administrative hoops to be considered - ie. DUNS, business insurance requirements, etc. ?

<comment><AUTHOR> Still not at big co RFP level, a good deal of it is subcontracting.

Ariba didn't work out so well, the projects are usually pretty old and you find much bigger companies tossing their hat in the ring. I wound up breaking into big company stuff by working with an agency to start, doing a good job and then the Tech Director started hooking me up with other Tech directors/projects to take me to the next level.

Similar to above, the projects were big and public but the key for me was word of mouth. Every piece of work I did yielded me multiple new clients and repeat work.

Yep, usually need 500k-1m of general liability insurance. Some require even more which I don't yet have. I don't have a DUNS number but that hasn't hurt me yet. You do need to be an LLC or Corp and have your books in order/no skeletons. One problem is I don't have a long history to point to. Some RFP's require you to show longevity which I don't have yet.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> I too do freelance software development. I'm at a pretty small scale right now, but shoot me an email if you'd like to talk about doing some work together in the future. Whether its just passing excess projects off to each other or it turns into something bigger, I am open to discussion. I am booked until end of June right now. My email should be in my profile.

</comment><comment><USER6> The easiest thing we did when we needed to scale was to work with a number of other web dev shops. Some were 1 man operations and others slightly larger. Not only did this help us grow, but we also made additional revenue when they passed us work they couldn't handle due to time/experience.</comment>


Will this make devops obsolete and save your team money? - <AUTHOR> Hi folks, I'm part of this incubator and ran across another team that got funded by some of the Paypal Mafia folks. The question I have is that will this tool (https://seed.run) that they built help you in any way that you're willing to switch to what have built so far? FYI I'm not part of the team and am running my own startup. <comment><USER2> Not for the work I've done, no.

It's pure serverless, and that only works for certain types of applications and workloads.

And for my serverless applications, I would prefer to run and own my own CI infrastructure, as opposed to outsourcing that.</comment>


Ask HN: If someone else is "doing it", is that a reason not to compete? - <AUTHOR>

I think just about any idea has been tried to one degree these days. I am working on something that on paper is being done by a number of firms. The thing is I have a different angle on several levels for how it can be better and more competitive. But I am concerned about trying to convince investors of this. Given that Facebook came along after MySpace, I'd like to think there is no reason not to pursue something that's "been done" or "being done". I mean, after all there was IBM before there was Microsoft, and there was Microsoft before there was Google.<p>But I guess I would like to hear thoughts on this. And now, what I'm doing is not on the scale of those companies, but I don't think that matters to the discussion. <comment><USER2> No. They're not doing it the same way, for the same people, with the same marketing slant, etc etc. More broadly, competitors are great -- they provide validation that people will pay for your service, and every day they're in business they create folks who are let down by their inadequate and inferior offerings and who wish nothing more than to jump to your new hotness. (I'm not sure how much I believe that last bit.)

</comment><comment><USER3> Competition is a good thing. It proves there is a market for the product. If the competition is big, they are doing part of your marketing for you, letting people know they have a problem that needs solving. You can also use their product as a way to position your own product. There are some markets that are saturated and difficult to stand out, but it sounds this may not be the case.

The only thing that worries me in your post is "But I am concerned about trying to convince investors of this." I've chased funding before and its not a fun position to be in. Better to boot strap and have total control. In most cases you are going to need a product, active customers and some revenue to get a foot in the door for investors and even then, the odds are not in your favor.

</comment><comment><USER4> Facebook came after MySpace and Friendster, Google had entrenched competition. If investors don't get that, I wouldn't want them on my board.

Before starting I made a list of all my potential competitors. Then I spent some money getting industry data, and found out none of them actually had traction with bigger companies.

And then I changed products, twice, each time redefining who the competition was. BI? Recommendation engine? Advertising optimization platform? Recoset could end up as any of these, depending on customer validation.

Finally, every week there's a new potential competitor announced. I don't care: my focus isn't on winning against anyone else, it's making sure I have a viable business model.

</comment><comment><USER5> There is very little in the world that is "new". Most of what is purported as new is really an old idea that has been re-worked in to a new medium, or an amalgamation of old ideas. _This is not a bad thing._ Henry Ford may have modernized automobile production, but he wasn't the last guy to start a car manufacturer. Many have come and gone since.

</comment><comment><USER6> Three points:

1) If someone else is doing it that's good, in fact _preferable._ You are probably not the only person to have had a given idea, ergo if someone else is making money at it you probably can too.

2) Focus on the building core of the product. Don't worry about the attendant features, just...distill your idea down to its barest essence and start with that. Forget scalability, fee structuring, user account management...just put all that stuff on a shelf for now. Get a proof of concept working. Have other people look at it. Float it to your friends here at HN.

3) Think about how much you need to make? You don't need to be "the next XXX" to have a lot of fun and make great money. A million in revenue isn't worth any of the company's you mentioned attention (well, maybe MySpace), but it's a big deal to a tiny company.

This book here mentions a lot of what I'm saying: [http://www.amazon.com/Business-Software-Manager- Programmer-E...](http://www.amazon.com/Business-Software-Manager-Programmer- Entrepreneur/dp/074321580X)

It's well worth the money.

</comment><comment><USER7> No. The internet is a big place and there is room for multiple competitors. If someone else is "doing it," than the idea has been proven to be lucrative.

Regarding investors, if this is a web app, IMO, you should have an alpha version with good traction before raising money.

</comment><comment><USER8> Don't ever doubt yourself and your ideas. You will fail if you don't believe in what you're doing. You need to convince investors of your passion and conviction towards your ideas. They need to believe in you, but first, you need to believe in yourself and your capabilities and your own ideas. Did GM hesitate to compete with Ford? Did Pepsi hesitate to compete with Coke? Did LSD hesitate to... well you get my point.

</comment><comment><USER9> Somewhat bucking the trend, I'd say it's a reason to at least _consider_ what effects the existing competition has. May not be a reason to abandon it, but if, for example, you were considering offering freemium webmail, it'd be worth considering to what extent existing offerings like Gmail and Hotmail affect the landscape. Do they put so much downward pressure on prices that you can't realistically hope to charge enough to be profitable? Is there scope for offering better enough services, to at least some non-zero-sized niche of potential customers, to overcome that? Etc. I think you definitely can't assume they don't exist: if you just make a Gmail, even a somewhat better Gmail, you will have a lot of trouble competing with Google on Google's terms, and against their cash pile.

</comment><comment><USER10> these might help, from last week:

<http://cdixon.org/2010/06/26/competition-is-overrated/> <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1463677>

</comment><comment><USER11> You'll end up finding that a lot of your competitors are incompetent, or don't have the same ability to execute your idea quite like you can. In most cases I would say don't let competition discourage you. Let them show you what _not_ to do.

<comment><USER12> Expanding on this, the fact that they've done it before is actually an advantage to you: now you know exactly what you can do to make it better. Improvement can always be made.

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> Speaking simply and not going into every possible nuance... someone else doing the same thing is practically not data at all. If they're _succeeding_ , that means you should do it. If they're _failing_ , maybe you shouldn't.

</comment><comment><USER14> Probably this is becoming most clichéd question :)

Generating a totally unique idea and selling it to people will probably get you another "Apple"(I don't mean it literally). But till the time it does not happen, there is nothing wrong with working on something which is shared by someone else too, its just that yours should be better than others and should have enough differentiators to "rock". I am not going to quote "Google", "Facebook" et al. here again because everyone already knows the story.

</comment><comment><USER15> Depends whether you think you can do it "better", for some segment of the market.

There's no point in competing if you're just going to do the same thing as the entrenched competitor, but worse. Why would someone use your product?

There's a big reason to compete if you can do what someone's already doing, but better. And it doesn't have to be better for everyone. It just has to be better for some population of existing users that are currently dissatisfied with their existing experience.

</comment><comment><USER16> If entrepreneurs never pursued their dream just because someone else had already done it, we wouldn't have some of the most important innovations. Some of the greatest companies grew not out of a need for something that didn't exist, but out of a need to do it better. If you have an idea and can execute it better, or in a new, needed way, then you should absolutely do it. Pursue it with everything you have. You're an entrepreneur, after all.

</comment><comment><USER17> Ask not if there are competitors, ask if there is a body dissatisfied users.

Such body may exist due to lack of competition or due to it's inferior quality or due to their different focus but that's tactics and only helpful in defining exact places to focus on, the strategic question you shoul care about - are there people with unsatisfied need, and how can find them?

</comment><comment><USER18> Maybe. Depends on if you can do something different and gain some users that they don't have, or if you can do something better and take some users from your competitor. For the second option, you can take users they already have or users they would have gotten.

</comment><comment><USER19> You should go out there and compete. You could say myspace was "doing" what facebook does. Stay focused on your goal and build on your competitive advantage. Don't get scared out of the market. Competition only invites innovation and a healthy challenge.

</comment><comment><USER20> You shouldn't look at it this way. Rather look at it like this: If there is competition, it means that there's a market. If there's a lot of competition then the market is healthy.

As long as you don't just add incremental changes, go for it.

</comment><comment><USER21> There are lots and lots of hotels in any city that serve different niches of the market. Not just one. Some marketing analysis might reveal niches that can be exploited cheaply by you.

</comment><comment><USER22> Yes. If someone else is doing it, don't bother.

Does that sound right to you? No? Well... :)

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> Would just like to thank all for the positive comments. Upward and onward!</comment>


Kidsruby - Learn Ruby for kids - <AUTHOR> http://kidsruby.com/ <comment><USER2> [Full disclosure: I have contributed to Hackety Hack! (<http://hackety- hack.com/>) in the past, an analogous product.]

I wish Kidsruby didn't feel like a really poorly directed effort. That website is about as unfriendly as it could be. For example:

I'm a new programmer - where do I get started? Does the app teach me? Does the website teach me? Can anyone help me if I have questions? How do I "make games" or "hack my homework"?

I'd bet kids don't care about the news, the Twitter feed, or how many Likes this has on Facebook, so why is that the first thing they see? (And why is it included on most pages? Is there no more useful information to add?) How do I even get to the "about" page besides a poorly named link on the homepage?

\--

These are probably issues that can be solved by a designer and some careful thought, but I think it takes more than a cartoon header to be "kid friendly". Obviously the website isn't the core product, but with so few examples and lessons, I feel like it needs to offer more direction, guidance and instruction. Not everyone learns best in a sandbox.

<comment><USER3> Thanks for your feedback. Have you installed 1.0 and played with it yet? We've tried to address the first time user a bit better.

If you have specific instructional material you think should be added, we would be delighted to receive a pull request.

Thanks again for the feedback, we do appreciate it.

<comment><USER2> Just did an install. A 260MB download is just silly. And it's not even the application, it's an _installer_. Once it's done dropping copies of qt, Ruby and git somewhere on my system I can finally get started. Please, _please_ make a better package than that.

First launch gets better. Friendly "Start Here" button that explains the interface. And then it links to Hackety Hack, which is awesome, because _why's lessons are awesome. Could the code examples be formatted any worse though? All white text on a black background, with white borders and an incorrect line height? Yuck. (It's much better in the non-_why lessons, where code is formatted pre-tag style, but still not colored.).

Including RubyWarrior and Gosu is a fantastic idea. Great packages!

But then there's inconsistencies. The glossary defines 3 terms, and then fails to define 7 more. The app seems confused, telling me all of the following: "This is KidsRuby" "This is Hackety Hack" "This is Ruby4Kids"

The tabs differentiating between "Output" and "Turtle" are an interesting concept. I'm of a mixed opinion there, but I see what you're getting at. I'd probably have argued against that as one tab or the other is potentially useless at all times.

Really, I have the same criticism to level at this as Hackety Hack (and I imagine that is no small coincidence): it's a good idea wrapped in a terrible experience. It's not that it needs to be dumbed down for children, but it does need stronger guidance. It fails by giving too many opportunities for alienation and/or working just badly enough that users will get frustrated and give up. The fact that it doesn't behave like a native app makes it that much harder to apply existing knowledge.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Unfortunately, I couldn't even get the darn thing to run. I am fairly familiar with Ruby, but the entire process from figuring out what to download and then trying to get it to install, and then trying to launch it was just too rough. Had to uninstall it. I'll try again in the future if it fixes some issues. Nice idea though.

</comment><comment><USER5> Is Ruby really better than Python for kids? I find Python to be more consistent and less surprising than Ruby, although that sometimes comes at the expense of expressiveness.

For that matter, has anyone researched the (dis)advantages of teaching statically typed languages?

<comment><USER2> I also think Python is a great teaching language, but I think it brings some confusing concepts to the table. Whitespace nesting is one of my favorite things in the world, but is a bit of a demanding idea to add for someone with no experience in code.

It remains unimportant, however, as the goal is to teach children foundational skills, not specific languages.

<comment><USER6> I would argue that whitespace provides a visual cue to code organization that could prove critical to children learning to program. To provide an (adult) example of what a little whitespace and DRY can bring about, I'll describe my struggles to learn to program fluently. From 1998 until 2010, I did web design on and off, even working as a professional web designer for a few years. Although I was good at HTML, CSS, and design, I came from a non-CS background and struggled to learn Javascript beyond simple cutting and pasting of scripts and a little jquery. I eventually learned enough PHP to begin considering myself a programmer (yes, cue the laughter), but it wasn't until I started to learn Python a few years ago that I experienced a breakthrough.

Now I'm fluent in Python. After I was comfortable with Python, I went back to Javascript, via Coffeescript initially, and with the background Python provided, was able to grasp the fundamentals of Javascript to the point where I can now actually create full programs in JS. Since then, I've been able to pick up some C and am making excellent progress with Haskell. I attribute this programming epiphany to Python, and particularly to the visual cues that whitespace provides (along with "explicit is better than implicit"). Whitespace not only provides key visual cues to code structure, it also forces you to organize your code coherently before you can run it.

I've not learned Ruby, but I like what I've seen of it a lot. I'd love to have the opportunity to use it one day. However, I firmly believe that for some people at least -- including children learning to program -- semantic whitespace provides critical visual and organizational pedagogical support. For that reason, I think that Python, or even Coffeescript, would be a better first language for child (and adult) learners.

<comment><USER2> I've definitely gone back and forth with that, and felt the exact same way when I learned Python. And I agree - semantic whitespace is a really great feature that makes Python simpler in a lot of ways.

Where I start to like it less is when I think about how much structure it imposes on the code before you can even write a line - it has the potential to remove some degree of experimentation. And how easy, for a new user, it could be to get it just wrong enough to be problematic.

Don't count me as a hater though. I would _love_ to write Ruby with semantic whitespace - HAML already gets me halfway there!</comment></comment></comment></comment>


From Win32 to Cocoa  - <AUTHOR> http://arstechnica.com/articles/culture/microsoft-learn-from-apple-II.ars

<comment><USER3> this is a little confusing to me, because i've been working with .net since it came out and i always thought of it was an example of the type of good products microsoft was capable of releasing if they tried. there are certainly bad portions of the API, but i don't think it's nearly as bad as the author makes it out to be. an obscure threading bug in windows forms is not really that damning. assuming you couldn't find an equally stupid problem in swing (if even java is good enough) it's not even a relevant issue if you're not using winforms, and not everyone is.

</comment><comment><USER4> Great definition of enterprise software:

 _With "enterprise" software, you can often get away with a clunky program, because the people who are using it have all been trained on what to do. If doing X makes the application crash, that's okay—they can just be taught not to do X any more._

</comment><comment><USER5> These articles always end up discussing the UI api. After having been in the shrinkwrapped industry since DOS, and thanks to MSFT using the UI as a cheap gimmick to keep programmers hooked, I can tell you from experience that the latest and greatest UI controls now yield diminishing returns that de-sparkle in about two weeks of heavy use.

Apple is finally getting some market traction, but MSFT has already devalued the UI angle badly enough that Apple can't be guaranteed that users will see Cocoa as superior to whatever MSFT has already pissed on.

My takeaway from this experience is the following:

0) Computing is becoming a necessary part of modern daily life, which is a lot more compressed than it was at the introduction of the pc. There's nothing novel about having a computer sitting on your desk.

1) Single commercial vendor control of UI standards is bad.

2) Other metrics, such as reliability, user flow, convenience, and by ext good use of user's time are of more enduring importance than cool looking UI controls.

3) HTML w/js is increasingly good enough, until something else much better grows out of that experience.

<comment><USER6> Good points, A great percentage of the development work I am doing only uses a browser at the client end with all processing being managed at the server. HTML (backed up by JavaSript/Ajax is becoming the business client end platform of choice.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> If I get the theme of this right -

Your only a proper developer if you are writing code for yourself - <USER2> getting paid for it "suck".

.NET 2002 was aimed at programmers who suck and did not support the C++ "gods" of programming who were well served by the Win32 API. Oh no - now Win32 and Win64 are broken as well.

I rather gave up then on this "Oh I'm great post" at about that point. Surely, our task is to write excellent software that will be used - we target the platforms our customers have selected (good or bad) because that's where they are. Professionals are entitled to be critical of specific (or even all) platforms but critical or not we have to live in the real world.

Say what you like about Microsoft operating systems (all down hill since Win 2000 if you ask me but...) the guys at MS who build the programming tools and Visual Studio are second to none.

</comment><comment><USER7> Nice overview of why Microsoft's development environments suck, but not a whole lot about Apple and Cocoa. Maybe in part 3?

</comment><comment><USER8> The last page regarding the jumbledness of UI I think is symptomatic of a) a lack of a single strong design leader and b) too many fiefdoms all wanting to be unique within Microsoft. Windows Media Player wants to be different -- but there needs to be a design-oriented leader who says NO, you're sticking with our Vista guidelines because we don't want to look like a slapdash collection of malware.</comment>


Ask HN: Why Don't You Accept Bitcoin - <AUTHOR>

I'm currently doing a thesis on why companies choose not to accept bitcoin. I'd love to chat about why you don't accept bitcoin or hear your comments below.<p>If you would be happy to participate in my study you can book a time here for a 15-20 minute chat: https://alexmanusu.youcanbook.me/ <comment><USER2> Because I invest my time there where it will generate a return. Accepting bitcoin from users that have other means of payment cuts into the bottom line directly (and I'd have to somehow integrate bitcoin into my administrative processes, good luck with that), and accepting bitcoin from users that don't have other means is going to add a very very small fraction of the income that's already there.

In short, I don't accept bitcoin because it is pointless and most companies that do accept bitcoin do so for the PR value, not because it benefits their bottom line.

<comment><USER3> I agree with this.

Two points though:

1\. PR value does benefit your bottom line

2\. Almost all serious web proxies accept Bitcoin. I believe they do this more for product reasons than PR reasons.

Which is to say your answer could be put more simply as "I don't think my customers would value my accepting Bitcoin as much as other features I could be adding."

<comment><USER2> Bitcoin is a 'huge' thing in tech circles, but outside of that it's still tiny and since implementing bitcoin is non-trivial (especially from an administrative point of view) it's my time that I'm worried about, not what my customers would value (they've very likely heard about bitcoin but do not have any). I get an infinite amount more email about implementing paypal (3 per year) than about implementing bitcoin (0).

So I'd be wasting my time. As for PR value, I'd rather get that from unique content or a the quality of the service than from promoting still relatively obscure payment methods because the press is 'hot' on anything bitcoin. Besides, when Apple or Amazon do it it is noteworthy, when camarades.com does it nobody will care.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Two reasons.

1\. Price volatility

2\. Bitcoin is designed to be deflationary. Most people that buy Bitcoin are letting it sit there and hoping that their investment will go up rather than using it for purchases.

<comment><USER5> 1\. that's no issue when you just use Bitpay/Coinbase to exchange the Bitcoins for USD/EUR immediately.

2\. first of all, that's not true. More Bitcoins are created every day so it's inflationary, not deflationary. Secondly: that would be a good reason to accept Bitcoin. Who doesn't like getting paid in something that will appreciate in value?

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> Simple. My customers aren't asking for it and really don't care. If I'm not focused on them, I'm missing the point of my business. The day they start banging on my door and telling me they'll leave because I don't have Bitcoin support, I'll happily add it. Until then, it's not on my radar.

</comment><comment><USER7> 1\. Volatility

2\. Regulatory uncertainty

To some degree (2) causes (1). Both the threat of regulation and the lack of regulation cause volatility, and that issue not going to go away any time soon.

</comment><comment><USER3> My reason is simple: Bitcoin doesn't natively support recurring payments.

<comment><USER8> Neither does any other currency. (credit cards != USD)

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> Because Bitcoin holds no value to me.</comment>


Smalltalk: Our Death has been Exaggerated - <AUTHOR> http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/blog/blogView?showComments=true&printTitle=Smalltalk:_Our_Death_has_been_Exaggerated&entry=3419278263 <comment><USER3> I'd like to know if the point attributed to Ward Cunningham - that Smalltalk failed because, relative to C++ etc., it was "too easy to make a mess" - <USER2> something he (a) really said and (b) meant in the way it was quoted. The idea that C++ programs are cleaner than Smalltalk ones is just bizarre. Edit: I'd be surprised if Ward had spent much time around C++ systems.

<comment><USER4> I'd like to know a and b, too. But Bob's point wasn't that C++ programs look cleaner. His point was that it's very obvious that if you're not careful in C++, you can can shoot yourself in the foot quite quickly, and therefore, you're less likely to try crazy things in C++ that would risk foot injury.

<comment><USER3> I didn't say "look cleaner", I said "cleaner" as in not a mess, which _was_ his point (in the sense that you describe), and it's ridiculous, an argument against higher-level languages. Of all the things one could argue killed Smalltalk's chances of becoming mainstream, this has got to be the dumbest, which is why I wonder exactly what Ward really said and in what context.

A former Smalltalker I worked with for years argues that it was mostly the greed and arrogance of the vendors that ruined its chances: greed as in refusing to make even trial versions available for free, and arrogance as in refusing to make it easier to integrate with other systems. Edit: This, by the way, was the perspective of a guy who was simply reflecting on what he had observed, not someone with a software ideology to push... as opposed to Bob Martin, who seems to be saying "Smalltalk got killed so we should all write lots and lots of tests".

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> I agree with most of what this article says. TDD still seems like a lot of busywork to me, which is exactly what I try to avoid as a programmer. If something is tedious, I do my best to write a script to do it for me (sometimes even if the script takes longer to write than the tedious task).

That said, I really like looking to tests/specs for instructions on how to use a new API (especially if it's undocumented). Tests are definitely nice to have, even if they're a pain to write.

Also, I like Uncle Bob's idea of making the code cleaner with every commit (though I would of course separate any refactoring into its own commit).

</comment><comment><USER6> The claim that Smalltalk is dead is very much based on how many people use Smalltalk today - and the answer is very little. Arguing about Smalltalk's features, as awesome as they may be, does not refute the original presentation's point.

</comment><comment><USER7> He seems to miss the point that TDD is more critical in a weakly typed/dynamically typed system. Yes, C, C++, and Java didn't have TDD when they started, but there was this thing called a compiler ...

<comment><USER8> This might be true for a theoretical perfect strongly typed language (SML comes close), but whatever C and C++ might gain by static typing, they lose by things like casts to (void *) and of course their unsafe pointers. Even Java isn't very type-safe, especially when it started - collections held Objects, which you had to downcast (bye static type-safety, hello runtime errors).

<comment><USER3> Yep. It's amusing that people go on about how compilers catch their errors and then spend hours debugging InvalidCastExceptions.</comment></comment></comment>


Fin: Wearable Ring Make your Palm as Numeric Keypad and Gesture Interface - <AUTHOR> http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/fin-wearable-ring-make-your-palm-as-numeric-keypad-and-gesture-interface

<comment><USER2> Their page does a lot of "telling" but not enough "showing". I want to see a hands-on demo of all of the main features, before I could be convinced to back this. Additionally, issues of charging, pairing, and sizing don't seem to be addressed.</comment>


Why So Many Musicians Are Leaving San Francisco for L.A. - <AUTHOR> http://pitchfork.com/thepitch/210-they-got-the-neutron-bomb-los-angeles-potentially-huge-rocknroll-year/

<comment><USER2> San Francisco is fast becoming the most boring "big" city in America. Take a look at the boring office-park culture that SV is famous for; that is the future of SF. This change is inevitable as rents increase and the only people who can afford to live there are white and Asian males between 20-35 who work in tech. (I mean no offense by this comment. I fit into this demographic, but I will admit that as group overall middle class tech workers are culturally homogenous and thus incredibly bland.)

<comment><USER3> _This change is inevitable as rents increase_

It's not inevitable; rather, it's because of a series of political choices. Steel and elevators are very old technologies and as such it's quite simple to increase the supply of dwellings on a given quantity of land. San Francisco's development rules mostly prohibit anyone from doing so, however, per Matt Yglesias's book _The Rent Is Too Damn High (And What To Do About It)_ (see [http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0078XGJXO?ie=UTF8&tag=thstsst-20&l...](http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0078XGJXO?ie=UTF8&tag=thstsst-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957)).

In the face of constant supply and rising demand prices increases. Want to change that dynamic? Increase supply by building new stuff.

<comment><USER4> I'm not so sure that a standard market approach to increasing supply really drives down or even stabilizes housing prices.

I've been present at some significant housing supply buildouts in a few areas, and each time, my observation was that the price of new housing was somewhat above market rates... since it's brand new (and often "luxury" condos/apartments). Plus building costs for new stuff is financed in unamortized $RECENT_YEAR dollars rather than amortized $DECADES_PAST dollars.

For land-constrained places like San Francisco, where the only way to increase supply is up, this dynamic is probably more true, since however old the tech is, it's a lot more capital intensive than stick framing.

Where I _have_ observed a decrease in price, it's never been because of supply increase. It's places like Detroit where demand drops, either because of economic stagnation/collapse, or where there's health/property hazards.

This isn't to say they shouldn't build out/up in SF, just that I'm pretty sure that introducing rents musicians can afford is not going be as simple as changing development rules and letting private developers go at it.

<comment><USER5> In DC, average rents decreased by 2% last year, largely because of increased supply[1], so it is possible. Somewhere like SF, it's likely that demand would increase faster than supply could so prices would continue to go up, but at least the increase in supply would slow down the price increase.

[1] [http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-04-23/washington-faces- ap...](http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-04-23/washington-faces-apartment- glut-after-boom-real-estate.html)

<comment><USER4> The cited article on DC does give some new construction numbers and credit that as part of the trajectory. _However_ , there's also this bit:

"Job growth in the region, which is heavily focused on the government, has been too weak to support the construction, said Greg Leisch, chief executive officer of Delta Associates. Federal contracting has declined by $7 billion in the last two years and the spending cuts known as sequestration have limited employment and demand for rentals, he said.

"The supply would have been consistent with Washington's job performance had the federal government not shrunk,"

In other words, despite the increased supply, had the fundamentals of the local economic activity stayed the same, they would have only matched demand at best, and prices probably would have stayed stable/increasing.

It looks to me like this at least as much another example of a price reduction from a demand drop as it is a price reduction from increased supply, if not more.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> I know Ty. Both him and my friend Peter (his roommate then, not sure if they are still living together) moved there more than a year ago, and they both are from the LA area. Mikal Cronin, who started playing with Ty a while back, was also from there.

Some of it was money related, but most musicians I know live in Oakland anyway. Ty is so busy he's not really home that often anyways. I do think a garage is probably a step up. I know they couldn't play loud in their apartment in the inner richmond.

</comment><comment><USER7> "Seemingly overnight, [San Francisco] has filled up with phone-scrolling, blank-faced wanderers (particularly in my neighborhood). I prefer a taco to a vintage glasses store any day."

I guess all those people I follow on Tumblr aren't real artists :-(

</comment><comment><USER8> Key point of the article is that many artists can't afford SF anymore.

</comment><comment><USER9> It is sad how SF is becoming a monoculture and it seemed to happen so quickly. I moved here only 4 years ago and when I was first here it was flush with weirdness, but now, that weirdness that made SF so fun and free minded, is all but gone.

</comment><comment><USER10> TL;DR San Francisco is too expensive at the moment and you get more garage space in LA's cultural desert. And lots of bands move there and it's warmer.

EDIT for clarification - I don't think it's a cultural desert: I think the article says this

<comment><USER11> I'm glad to know I'm living in a cultural desert. Looking at both the bands and the visual artists out here, we must have different usages of the word "desert" :)

<comment><USER12> Maybe he means it's a desert with culture. At least from my experience going to school down there, "desert" is pretty accurate for the climate/environment in LA.

<comment><USER13> You're correct when it comes to _some_ parts of the greater Los Angeles area; beyond the foothills that surround it and The Valley, but that's just because the city by that definition goes on forever.

Los Angeles proper; downtown and the surrounding areas, have a great climate because of the onshore breeze that comes in through Santa Monica. The indigenous foliage (what's left of it) there and up into the foothills is quite varied, and with everything the inhabitants have planted over the years, can be quite dense in some areas (largely supported by water from elsewhere in the state).

The extended areas as well, Angeles National Forest and the San Gabriel Mountains, can be comparable in density and recreation to forests across the nation.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> What's there in this story to decorticate that makes it HN worthy?

<comment><USER6> John Dwyer is talking about gentrification by his old house around Valencia and 17th, aka mission gentrification central. Of which, he recently criticized "techies" for leading.

[http://blogs.sfweekly.com/shookdown/2014/01/here_is_what_the...](http://blogs.sfweekly.com/shookdown/2014/01/here_is_what_thee_oh_sees_john.php)

<comment><USER15> If he spent a little while educating himself before making such comments in public, he'd know that the real problem is draconian zoning laws and NIMBYs.

[http://www.amazon.com/The-Rent-Too-Damn-High- ebook/dp/B0078X...](http://www.amazon.com/The-Rent-Too-Damn-High- ebook/dp/B0078XGJXO)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> Anything to do with gentrification?

edit: I couldn't figure out why I was a little confused reading this, but it's because there is no one coherent answer in this article.

edit: I asked because the article doesn't answer that, aside from a small sampling. And the phase before this seems to be from only a couple of years ago ("Aaron Leitko wrote a 2011 Pitchfork feature about it called 'Positive Destruction'.") I don't know SF, but I've seen gentrification up close a few times in larger US cities, it usually takes longer. Hence my question.

<comment><USER15> Try reading the article for once, and you just might be able to answer your own question.</comment></comment>


Jenga Pistol - <AUTHOR> http://woodgears.ca/jenga_pistol/index.html

<comment><USER2> Also check out the authors notes on selling the pistols: <http://woodgears.ca/jenga_pistol/selling.html>

<comment><USER3> Also check out the author's "Binary marble adding machine" <http://woodgears.ca/marbleadd/index.html>

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> I'm hoping somewhere in the Jenga rule book that it negates the use of anything "but" the complete use of fingers to move the blocks. Otherwise, everyone is going to show up at the World Jenga Championships with these guns, and the entire competitive industry surrounding Jenga, will collapse.

</comment><comment><USER5> great hack in my opinion...

<comment><USER5> Did I do something wrong here? Relatively new to HN. Is this how opinions are treated?

<comment><USER6> It just doesn't add anything of value to the conversation. We all know it's a great hack, so it's just white noise to post it.

Not a hugely big deal. Just try to avoid the echo chamber and instead provide unique insight on the subject.</comment></comment></comment>


Let's Build a Compiler (1995) - <AUTHOR> https://xmonader.github.io/letsbuildacompiler-pretty/ <comment><USER2> [Edit: this comment is obsolete; author fixed both issues]

The attribution is missing: As the README on the repository ([https://github.com/xmonader/letsbuildacompiler- pretty](https://github.com/xmonader/letsbuildacompiler-pretty)) explains, this is a prettified version of the plain-text "Let's Build a Compiler" by Jack Crenshaw, published in serial form during 1988 to 1995 ([https://compilers.iecc.com/crenshaw/](https://compilers.iecc.com/crenshaw/)).

This prettified version is nice; if nothing else the syntax highlighting in the code samples makes them easier to read.

But comparing for example the first installment at the original ([https://compilers.iecc.com/crenshaw/tutor1.txt](https://compilers.iecc.com/crenshaw/tutor1.txt)) and here ([https://xmonader.github.io/letsbuildacompiler- pretty/tutor01...](https://xmonader.github.io/letsbuildacompiler- pretty/tutor01_introduction.html)), looks like the title, author name, copyright notice, and date have all been removed. Hopefully the maintainer of this repo finds a way to add them back. (Also, Part 9 seems to be empty? Reporting on the repo.)

Edit: Reported on the repo and the author fixed promptly. Thanks!

</comment><comment><USER3> The interesting previous discussions appear to be:

2013: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6641117](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6641117)

2010: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1727004](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1727004)

2007: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=63004](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=63004)

</comment><comment><USER4> This needs attribution to Jack Crenshaw the author.

<comment><USER5> [https://compilers.iecc.com/crenshaw/](https://compilers.iecc.com/crenshaw/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> On mobile, to get to the other chapters, there's a hamburger menu at the top that's hidden until you tap near the top.

<comment><USER7> Thanks!

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> No mention of Pratt parsing? :)

<comment><USER9> Pratt parsing is great. Quoting from the original paper itself:

> One may wonder why such an "obviously" utopian approach has not been > generally adopted already. I suspect the root cause ... is our universal > preoccupation with BNF grammars and their various offspring...

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> How reasonable is it to dive any to this and treat the Pascal as pseudocode so as to implement it in another language? Or would one be better off just using something like freepascal.org?

<comment><USER11> For the excellent introductory book "Compiler Construction" by Niklaus Wirth, you could find compilers for the implementation language at [http://oberon07.com/compilers.xhtml](http://oberon07.com/compilers.xhtml).

If you have a JVM installed, you could use _oberonc_ [0]. I have a local branch where I test that each release of the compiler can compile and run the examples in that book.

[0] [https://github.com/lboasso/oberonc](https://github.com/lboasso/oberonc)

<comment><USER12> Can one use _oberonc_ to compile the Oberon 0 language presented in [http://www.ethoberon.ethz.ch/WirthPubl/CBEAll.pdf](http://www.ethoberon.ethz.ch/WirthPubl/CBEAll.pdf) ?

I guess what I'm asking is if Oberon-0 is a subset of Oberon-7, which _oberonc_ seems to implement. Do you think it is possible to implement Oberon-0 in itself ?

<comment><USER11> With _oberonc_ you can compile the source code at [http://www- oldurls.inf.ethz.ch/personal/wirth/CompilerConstr...](http://www- oldurls.inf.ethz.ch/personal/wirth/CompilerConstruction/index.html) with minor changes to the I/O library calls. I can push the changes in a repo if you are interested.

Oberon-0 is too limited to easily bootstrap itself. I wrote _oberonc_ first in Java and then I rewrote it in Oberon-07 for the final bootstrap step. Oberon-0 is a toy subset of the full Oberon-07 language.

<comment><USER12>
        I can push the changes in a repo if you are interested.

Thanks. That would be great for the people that want to follow the _Compiler Construction_ book. (Thanks for posting the link for the 2017 version)

        Oberon-0 is a toy subset of the full Oberon-07 language.

So I can write small Oberon-0 programs and try these using Oberon-07.

<comment><USER11> Here is the repo: [https://github.com/lboasso/oberon0](https://github.com/lboasso/oberon0)

Yes, you can write small Oberon-0 programs and compile them with an Oberon-07 compiler, but it is simpler to just use the Oberon-0 compiler from the repo above.

<comment><USER12> Thanks.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


West of House (Zork in OCaml) - <AUTHOR> https://ericlippert.com/2016/02/01/west-of-house/ <comment><USER2> Another purpose of the Z-machine is code size. The virtual machine instruction took up less space than the equivalent machine code. From "How to Fit a Large Program into a Small Machine":

> A good benchmark for the storage saved by rewriting Zork in ZIL is the Zork > parser, which analyzes a player's English input: the parser for the PDP-10 > occupies 1OK 36-bit words, while the Z-code parser, which is actually better > functionally, occupies only 3K 8-bit bytes.

[http://mud.co.uk/richard/htflpism.htm](http://mud.co.uk/richard/htflpism.htm)</comment>


America is obsessed with happiness – and it's making us miserable - <AUTHOR> http://www.vox.com/first-person/2016/10/4/13093380/happiness-america-ruth-whippman <comment><USER2> The creepiest part of American public culture these days is all the smiling. It's gotten to the point where people have learned how to smile _while_ speaking. I noticed Hillary Clinton's campaign exec Kristina Schake doing this on all her TV media rounds and it's honestly very disturbing. If you watch talking heads on TV they're expected to smile at all times when not speaking. Americans are always supposed to be smiling and for no reason. If you are not you are told to smile more. There's this overall obsession with fake positivity that really gets to me. You can't say anything remotely negative in the workplace or you're deemed as not a team player. I know of a person who came from her home country and was there considered to be an extremely positive and cheerful person then came to the US and was told by her managers that she was too negative! This culture is actually pretty destructive because the voices that might speak up and say "I think we're being overly optimistic with our forecasts here" or "Maybe we shouldn't do X, because Y is on the decline" are silenced.

</comment><comment><USER3> If America is so obsessed with happiness, why don't Americans take, or even receive, substantial amounts of vacation time? Seems like it's more of a workaholic culture with a workplace culture of faked positivity.

>Their answers range from the mundane to the mind-boggling. Yoga and meditation. Keeping a "gratitude journal." A weekend seminar on how to Unleash the Power Within. Keeping your baby attached to your body for a minimum of 22 hours out of every 24, and, most bafflingly, not least on a practical level, the drinking of wolf colostrum.

Jeeze, spent any time with people who aren't caricatured yuppies?

</comment><comment><USER4> The author says the goal shouldn't be happiness, but living a good life. I think that's right. As Aristotle put it, you want to live a flourishing life.

I think so many Americans get this wrong because our nation has so much more freedom than others, with countless options, so people can obsess about their decisions. Also for much of its history it has been growing economically at a rapid rate and so people could try to increase their happiness by increasing their wealth.</comment>


Ask HN: Government contracting - <AUTHOR> I ve read on this before but I haven't found answer to this.
Does it make sense to bid on state government contracts before going to federal ones? Does it give your startup company any advantage?
Is this a good way to build references for your startup for the ultimate purpose of getting federal work or even remaining at state level and being big player down the line? <comment><USER2> Starting at the state or local level, or in the private sector, can be helpful, but many contractors have started directly in federal contracting, including, most recently, Nava and Ad Hoc.

If you want to get into federal contracting, you need to start networking and researching how a particular part of the federal government operates. Pick a particular department, and start there. The biggest spenders are the DoD, the VA, and CMS, so most people start out focusing on one of those agencies, although there may be some advantage of targeting a smaller agency where there will be less competition. It's hard to overstate how much of a vendor community there is around each of these agencies, but you can start following industry newsletters and events that are specific to any one of the above agencies, although most of them will be in the DC area.

The other thing to note is that almost everyone starts off in federal contracting as a subcontractor. It's fairly unusual for a company to land its first federal contract as a prime, and this would require substantial networking in DC. Your best bet is to start networking with contracting firms, and see if you can find a niche. Once you're inside an agency, you'll have a better sense of what your next steps should be, and how you would take the leap into bidding as a prime.

Finally, it's worth noting that the federal government has multiple small business programs that you can take advantage of. The most valuable and hardest to qualify for is the 8(a) program, but there's many others for veterans, minorities, and women. Also, no matter who your founders are, you can always qualify for the HUBZone program. However, to qualify for any of these programs, you're going to need to plan for that from the founding of your business.

Anyway, I hope that helps, let me know if you have any more specific questions.

</comment><comment><USER3> It may be easier to do the state government contracts first to get used to doing them, get certified and arrange your accounting and other business practices to conform to government regulations. If you just contract in your current state you can grow very quickly, especially if it is for information technology, business management, cyber or physical security related services.

If you have a strong state presence it will be easier for the federal government to validate you for consideration for federal contracts. The best thing about doing the state contracts is if you see another contractor did a shoddy job you can bid for the work that is required to fix it (roads, buildings, computer systems, etc.) next time you are at your local courthouse or any government building ask them how things are running. If you hear complaints, there is a good chance that there is a contract out to get things fixed that you can bid on. The smaller the agency/government unit the faster the contract will normally be awarded (city->county->state->federal), though the bigger the agency normally the bigger the requirements.

If you have a nice bit of successful state contracts it should help you build up enough liquid money that is required to bid on the more lucrative government contracts (some require 1,000,000 in liquid cash to qualify) so you can pay employees even if you get a stop work order from the COTR.

Best way to get big is to start small and build a solid foundation and become a company that all levels of government can trust.

</comment><comment><USER4> You don't get any advantages in the selection process, but you do learn how the procurement process works in government. And yes, state agencies are great references... government entities do talk to each other, often. Your reputation with one will be known by the others. Which can be a double-edged sword if you don't have your act together, but can be the heart of your company if you are service-oriented.

However, the idea that federal is somehow a step up from state is a bit odd to me. There are 50 states, and 1 country. Targeting the federal entities is putting all your eggs in one basket. Sure, it is a big basket... but a federal budget change could crush you.

<comment><USER5> Politicians won't kill the federal budget though because of the job losses. Neither party will. All you gotta do is span your work across a couple of agencies and you're largely insulated.

The worst part of federal contacting is running the business. The accounting, the contacting, etc, and almost all revenue is based on butts in seats. If you can sell a product instead of time then you are much better off.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> I know someone who first bid in county contracts, then on state, and now on federal. She says it was easier and quicker to talk to people at county levels so she could improve their bidding practices. With federal the process is less personal and as a new company it's hard to get access.

Also: For a small company it helps to be part women or minority owned because a certain percent of contracts has to go to these.

<comment><USER7> > Also: For a small company it helps to be part women or minority owned > because a certain percent of contracts has to go to these.

There's a lot of Federal contractors in my neck of the woods, and a few friends have joked that if they could just find a minority, female, combat- injured veteran to partner with they'd have a license to print money as you're effectively guaranteed a contract at that point.

<comment><USER8> Interesting. What counts as minority though? Does Chinese? It feels like in Silicon Valley they don't qualify as minority, but maybe in business/government.

<comment><USER7> Per the SBA[0]:

> These groups include: African Americans, Hispanic Americans, Native > Americans, Alaska Native Corporations, Indian Tribes, Native Hawaiian > Organizations and Community Development Corporations, Asian Pacific > Americans and Subcontinent Asian Americans.

Additionally

> Individuals who are not members of one or more of these groups can be > considered for the 8(a) program, but they must provide substantial evidence > and documentation that demonstrates that they have been subjected to bias or > discrimination and are economically disadvantaged.

[0] - [https://www.sba.gov/blogs/woman-owned-sdvosb-and-minority- ow...](https://www.sba.gov/blogs/woman-owned-sdvosb-and-minority-owned-are- business-designations-necessary)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> As a data point, I know 2 friends who attempted contracts with the Federal Governement. Both went out of business. The problem is that the process moves soooo slooowly that you run out of money before you can close the contract. This was for hardware/software for military or 3 letter agencies.

I also had a little personal experience with the state level. It came as a surprise to me that they could kinda care less if you saved them money. Save them $100K? It just gets subtracted from their next years budget.

</comment><comment><USER10> Do you all have any resources for getting started with contract bidding? Where to see open contracts? What it takes to be considered, legitimately? Thanks.

<comment><USER5> There are some websites that you can join for a fee where they aggregate local and state contracts.

Federal contracts are published in a handful of places as well like FedBiz.

Federally for small businesses it very much helps to be women, veteran, disabled veteran, alaskan based, or minority owned, to win work. But don't listen to haters and bad PR, you can do it if you don't fall into that category as well.

If you want to get into military or intelligence community work sometimes you need a clearance just to see the bids.

What'd I'd recommend for a lot of people is to reach out to larger, small businesses (like 300 person) and see if they have any work to sub out. Then try to go from there.

I subbed to a company that was on a large IC IDIQ and it was easy to grow under that, but that situation is unique and anecdotal.

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> As a note...almost every state has an economic development office that can help with these questions for young or small businesses. Often they are associated with universities.

Frankly, they are hugely underutilized resources and are effectively free labor for dealing with government grants, contracting, etc.

</comment><comment><USER12> Not going to lie, thought this was someone from Cisco Webex posting a how-to on govt contracting.

Alas.

</comment><comment><USER13> Any independent sales agent who specialize in Govt sales/contract? . We are telecom service provider who can use your expertise and skill to bid govt contracts. feel free to email me.</comment>


Show HN: FundaMine – Get Medium style annotations on your site - <AUTHOR> http://www.fundamine.com/publishers.html <comment><USER2> Looks interesting. But I remember a similar product from Genius. How is this different from that?

<comment><AUTHOR> We discovered that speed and subtlety matter a lot to bloggers and media websites. We incorporated that feedback into our design and tech. Compared to Genius, FundaMine's design is really subtle and fits into the website's design. We also don't use iframes for the annotations. This makes FundaMine light-weight and blazingly fast even on mobile connections where most consumption happens.

<comment><USER2> But Genius has a huge network how do you guys plan to beat that? Often these kinds of products just sell on the community.

<comment><AUTHOR> We plan to get ourselves integrated into media websites; hence helping them increase engagement and also leveraging their network to grow.

<comment><USER2> But media website themselves don't get comments in the first place. You guys really think that's gonna help?

<comment><USER3> Don't agree. Actually engagment and comments is one of the key kpi for the authorth of articles</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


American kids would much rather be YouTubers than astronauts - <AUTHOR> https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/07/american-kids-would-much-rather-be-youtubers-than-astronauts/ <comment><USER2> I don't think this has much to do with the level of interest in STEM.

I would rather be any of those other 4 things than an astronaut. At the same time, I would rather be an aerospace engineer, a molecular biologist, or just about any type of physicist than any of those alternatives.

</comment><comment><USER3> These same kids have never seen a real astronaut in the press and culture before a moon shot.

Talk about a "rock star"—if John Glenn had a YT account in the day he'd have 200M followers and could retire on Patreon.

They were our superheros.

</comment><comment><USER4> Luckily, youtubers can now also be astronauts: [http://astronaut.io](http://astronaut.io)</comment>


Sign up for our upcoming beta release - Staff timekeeping for SME - <AUTHOR> http://heyjimmy.net

<comment><AUTHOR> Free places available in the beta release of Team Sheet, our new staff timekeeping solution for small business.

Team Sheet will replace the sign-in sheets used at many small businesses everywhere.

Requirements:

Android tablet running Gingerbread or higher with front camera; and

Promise to fill in feedback form.</comment>


YouTube Trends Map shows most popular videos across U.S. - <AUTHOR> http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57583197-93/youtube-trends-map-shows-most-popular-videos-across-u.s/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%253A+cnet%252FsDKW+%28Gaming%29

<comment><AUTHOR> It kind of sucks I created a start-up that combines Google Earth and YouTube, I am told "no one wants it" by the industry including YC/HN, but then Google launches its own version of my concept after submitting to Google Ventures....Ah I feel much better now.</comment>


Ask HN: How do I get press to my site I launched - <AUTHOR> So I just launched JoinTheBox.com<p>I want to generate revenue through press and media but have no clue is my press kit Good? <comment><USER2> Nice looking site, but I think you're going around your marketing all wrong.

You want to generate revenue through the press, no you don't you want to get people to sign-up for your site.

Let's take a look at how you do that. Do you currently have a few customers? Are those customers successfully selling through your product? Great, does somebody have a really unique business? Can you help THEM get press, and increase their business? Can you get mentions along with driving people to your customers sites?

You have to think ahead. Getting press, and growing a business isn't done after the fact. It isn't something that happens after you've built your product.

So, xmas is coming up, probably a big time for some of your customers (assuming you have customers). How can you help them sell more over xmas. After xmas, you've got an opportunity to hit up media. You can show how some special customer (they need to have a story about why they are special) killed it this holiday, and how you helped them do that, and how it benefits the readers. If THEY can start their own business using your product, look at the change it can make in their lives.

That's how PR works. Find an angle that you can sell to the media about why they should write about you, and it is almost never about you, you're just a guy trying to start a business who hasn't yet succeeded. So make it about the reader, what does the reader want to know, does the reader want to know about you? Probably not, you have to make it about what the reader wants which will lead them to want to know about you.

But also consider this. You're in a market with HUGE competitors. Shopify, BigCommerce and lots of others. What makes you special. I didn't get it from your website. Try to find your niche.

You've got lots of work to do. Congrats on getting this far.</comment>


First Google result for tupac has spam title - <AUTHOR> https://www.google.com/#q=tupac What causes this issue? <comment><USER2> Obviously and SQL injection for SEO purposes.

<comment><USER2> To confirm, review the cached page: [http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache%3Ahttp%...](http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache%3Ahttp%3A//www.2pac.com/&ref=stb)</comment></comment>


An open letter to Flightcar - <AUTHOR> http://watilo.com/open-letter-to-flightcar

<comment><USER2> I'm glad to know I'm not alone in being shocked by Flightcar's service. I've also had a recent horrible experience with Flightcar, and unfortunately must also recommend users steer clear.

I've only seen this level of tone-deafness from startups that are about to die or startups that are about to raise big. Given they are still expanding aggressively into new cities I'd assume it's the latter and they're pushing a lemon onto VCs.

</comment><comment><USER3> I agree with your post x100000. I loved Flightcar when they first started: [http://elaineou.com/2013/11/25/free-airport-parking- relayrid...](http://elaineou.com/2013/11/25/free-airport-parking-relayrides- vs-flightcar/)

As an early-stage startup, they had no choice but to provide fantastic service. Now it seems like they sacrificed customer service for growth.</comment>