Ask HN: What's the best way to recover from burnout? - <AUTHOR> I've been in a technology executive role at a large company for 6 years. It's been incredibly fulfilling and the best job I could ask for. In the last couple years though, it's also pivoted a bit and become increasingly draining. Because I can affect my circumstances and mitigate the bad parts, quitting has always felt like giving up, so I've found ways to continue. But I've now reached the point where I'm so burned out that I have very little ambition, and find myself just trying to get through the day, avoiding opportunities and social interactions. I've decided I need to quit.
The problem is, I can't imagine what I'd like to do next. As I mentioned before, this has been a fantastically fulfilling job and a promising career. Nothing I can imagine stacks up to it. At the moment I want nothing to do with it, but I think that's fueled by my burnout. If that's the case, it seems silly to switch to a different career. How do I get past this burnout so I can think clearly and be "myself" again?
Best idea I have is to take a couple months off and try to recover from my burnout, and hope it becomes clear what I'd like to do next -- even if it's a similar role at another company. But taking time off with nothing lined up has its own risks, and I imagine there's more to it than simply "not working."
Any advice? <comment><USER3> I was a regular dev that got promoted to a position that made me consider getting out of the business for good. I was running on fumes, and fantasized about getting a job as a cashier somewhere.

Quit my job, sold my place and my stuff, bought a one-way ticket to Mexico as the first leg of a one year trip around the world. Been here for 4 years now. Got married, got a bunch of dogs, a kid, a really cool job, and regained my love for coding and life.

Edit: Since this got upvoted a bit I will add some back story.

I was well aware that I was experiencing burn out, and I tried the regular things. I changed my unhealthy eating habbits, I started working out and got the muscle tone up and fat down, I took extended vacations to exotic places -- and while it all did work to stave it off, it was not enough. I returned from a 1 month trek in South America, and when I sat down at my desk at work I knew I was done. I had gained the confidence and perspective I needed to rip the band-aid off.

So while my story above seem drastic, there was a build-up period before I made the big change.

<comment><USER4> Congrats on finding happiness!

<comment><USER3> It hides in the funniest of places =) Thanks

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> I'll share what I do when I'm burnt out and some of my logic for why I think it is effective:

I love working towards a goal. I find the journey enjoyable and the achievement gratifying. For that reason, idle time simply isn't interesting to me.

But working towards another non-work related professional goal while I'm burnt out isn't effective. It doesn't allow for proper relaxation or repair even though it is a break from my job. And why is that? Because I'm still predominantly using my mind, which is already tapped out, to work towards that goal.

So instead, during times when I'm at or near burn out, I do things that are physically exhausting. Hike, kayak, run. It feeds my desire to achieve (reach the summit, complete a trip, run 3 miles), but in a fundamentally different way. My brain stops trying to logic its way through the problem and instead focuses on the physical exertion. I use it as a weapon against fatigue when my efficiency is declining. One hard physical exertion can be enough offload weeks worth of mental fatigue.

<comment><USER6> You can of course integrate intense physical exertion into your weekly pattern as well. If the outdoors aren't accessible on a weekly basis, exercise equipment can be used to set and achieve challenges.

I've settled into a pattern of 1000-1500 calorie cardio workouts a few times per week, set to push my performance limits and it's an incredible mood and productivity boost.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> It's a struggle, I feel your burnt out pain. I went through a similar stretch last year...

I tried traveling, I tried picking up new hobbies, I tried not working at all.

2 things that helped the most:

1\. seeing a therapist regularly -- wish i started this sooner in my career. 2\. taking a break and traveling with a group called unsettled - group of 30 people who are in transition in some way... leaving job, starting new job, switching careers, wanting to leave job, wanting to start a company, starting a company, etc. unsettled gets you a shared house and coworking space. Being around people from all over the world is inspiring and gives you new perspective. There are other companies that offer this remoteyear, etc. but unsettled attracts people in transition which i found to be a good fit for me. see here [http://beunsettled.co](http://beunsettled.co)

<comment><USER8> > but unsettled attracts people in transition which i found to be a good fit > for me. see here [http://beunsettled.co](http://beunsettled.co)

Thanks for this. Was looking exactly for something like this.

Have you done any of their retreats? Can you share your experience if you don't mind? Also, in their F.A.Q, there's no mention of airfare in neither the 'What's included' nor the 'What's not included' section. Do you know?

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> You got to find balance in your life - whole life. One of the big issues with burn out is that one thing takes over your whole life. Being the best employee is great but it comes at a cost to you. The sad part is that you can be the best. So good that you kill yourself but ultimately you're just a person that can be replaced. A small cog in the system. The problem is that you stopped looking forward to things because everything becomes the same - <USER2> changing, always hard. Reduce your work life and expand your life outside of work. Do things you wouldn't otherwise do. Get to the point where you start looking forward to things. It can be, spending time with your family or learning a new hobby or getting a new job. You need to figure it out for yourself by not just thinking of what you want but actually trying new things. Do a lot of volunteering until you find what you need. You need to get off the never ending merry go around that is your work life.

Also, money is not everything. You might need to get a job that pays less but is more fulfilling. I worked with a project manager that was very well paid and great at her job but she hated the pressure. She eventually decided to quit and now babysits cats and dogs. The job pays less but she loves her work. Good luck.

<comment><USER10> This is really good advice. It is very important to find balance. Also, I think it is so important to keep trying new things until something clicks - you just don't know what that is going to be until you try it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> I was recently burned out due not so much from work but work + side projects + long commute + kids + etc. It may sound obvious but the best way to recover from burnout is to go an a genuinely relaxing vacation. The key is "genuinely relaxing". Most of the time our vacations are jam packed with itineraries and things to do. Don't do any of that. Take as much time as you are able to, hop on a short flight somewhere nice, and plan nothing. Sleep in, eat out, don't lift a finger. Do whatever you want, whenever you want. Just make sure your routine is entirely gone and you can rest as much as you like. I had my wife, daughter, and in-laws on my vacation and I was still able to get fully recharged by doing it this way. I think you'll find your mind wandering when you start getting back to normal and then some answers will probably present themselves to you.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks. How long was your vacation, and how burned out were you before it?

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> It is hard to give advice to people who make it on top of some hill. For me the burnout happened when I was just your typical grunt developer working on string of unsuccessful startups and boring freelance gigs, doing this line of work for about 10 years.

I guess it helped me to have no agenda and no real further ambitions. I just went on extended sabbatical for few years. Making close to minimum wage, wandering around the world, finding and loosing friends and did even acquire small farm (during one memorable drinking session).

I didn't have any plans of ever getting back to technology sector, I didn't have plans at all.

I guess I just needed to hit some point in my life when I stop thinking about my past and early ambitions, before I was able to continue on where I left, just with new energy, drive and outlook. And I still have that farm.

</comment><comment><USER13> Man, you are describing exactly how I've been feeling past couple of years. I don't have the balls to quit (wife, kids..). The only difference is that I actually hate the industry (gambling) I'm in (started because money was great). I've been here for 10 years and have domain knowledge. I don't know what else would I like to do. I have some money saved for some couple of years off, if I really scaled down, but then what?

Being 41 does not help my prospects of getting a descent job. I am an average dev.

I realize I am not answering your question, just rambling. Maybe there is a takeaway for you here. Don't be like me. If you are young, do something about it. With time your responsibilites (wife, kids, their school) only get bigger, and your options smaller..

<comment><USER10> I was in your position aged 40 and didn't do anything about it. I ended up divorced, broke and ill. So, my point is - can you afford not to do something about it?

I would scale down, perhaps downsize if you can, and save more, before that is forced on you anyway. It gives you more options. Talk to your wife so she is fully appraised of how you feel (there are mixed views on this though - that's mine).

So, you then have another problem - you take time out, what to do then? Well, it seems you have a value conflict with the industry you are in. It should not be too hard to transition into a new industry in software.

By the way, if you are feeling like you want to transition out of the software industry you might start trying other things on the side just to see what you like doing.

You might feel old at 41, but when you are 55 like me you will look back and say - God I was young then even though I felt OLD! :)

<comment><AUTHOR> Interesting how many comments and articles I've seen like this. I haven't seen a comment or article saying they took the leap and regretted it. Does that mean no one ever regrets it, or those comments/articles just don't get upvoted? :P

<comment><USER10> OK so if you are not happy where you are and you make the leap and it doesn't work out then you can always go back to your old life. What have you lost? The thing is it doesn't have to be a giant leap into the unknown where all is lost if it doesn't work out - that's how people perceive it in their head. I've tried plenty of things that didn't work out, but you back up, regroup and try again from a different angle. I think what you'd regret more than anything is staying in a life that leaves you cold. If you live like that your hand will be forced eventually. Better off preparing for the inevitable.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> I hit a really bad burnout four years ago and after reading about peoples' experience with sabbaticals I took three months off unpaid.

I spent the first month of that trying to "figure things out" until my girlfriend got sick of me and suggested I just try and have some fun. That's what I did for the last two months and, surprise, the burnout went away and my passion returned.

Depending on how bad your burnout is you may need more or less time off. But after much reading the consensus seemed to be that three months is the bare minimum.

Edit:

I should mention that for the "having fun" part I went out of my way to try new things, travel a bit, and basically do my best to disrupt any ruts I had built for myself.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks. Were you worried you'd come back and quit after making such a big ask of 3 months off?

<comment><USER14> Yes, definitely. But at least if that happened I would know it was the right thing to do and not be stuck in that hellish cycle of "what if".

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> I feel you. It's a struggle.

Sherry Walling is a very well-educated and practiced psychologist and she does a great episode about burnout on the ZenFounder podcast. She discusses it both from the hands-on side and the clinical side. It helped me a lot.

[https://zenfounder.com/episodes/episode-142-burnout/](https://zenfounder.com/episodes/episode-142-burnout/)

The TL;DL from my takeaways are to find time to focus on the challenging and exciting tasks from one's to-do list. Complete that work (I.e., hit publish. Don't let perfectionist tendencies prevent you from finishing). Then reward yourself for doing so.

Also, find social outlets continually and don't allow work to overshadow things like friendships and family.

Those were the ones that hit close to home for me.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks, I enjoyed the episode.

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> I once came across a list of burnout drivers, it might help you figure out which aspect is currently "wrong".

\- Lack of control. You don't have a lot of say about what's going on in your work, or your sense of control is undermined or restricted.

\- Values conflict. There's a disconnect between your own core values and the core values of the organisation.

\- Insufficient reward. You feel undercompensated, underappreciated, and taken for granted.

\- Work overload. Your workload is too much, too urgent, or too complicated.

\- Unfairness. You're treated poorly by the organisation, management plays favourites, and assignments and promotions are made behind closed doors.

\- Breakdown of community. Your colleagues patronise you or others, there's no-one to talk with about conflicts, and feedback is non-existent.

<comment><AUTHOR> Great list! Several of those resonate with me. Thank you. I've been able to isolate the things I love about my job, and the things that contribute to my burnout. I can make changes to influence them (not completely change them), but I'm not sure I have the drive to anymore :-/

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> I was hard burnt out, all the symptoms, literally thought I'd never work again. I've come back now and i'll tell you what worked for me. YMMV.

Didn't quit. Started working 20-30hrs per week max. Let everything that couldn't fit in that truly slide. Cultivated DGAF attitude, concentrated on self-care out of the office (with extra time I had from working low hours).

Took a long, long time at this reduced pace, maybe 6 - 9 months of thinking "ok, this is sustainable" and eventually got recharged...

</comment><comment><USER18> Mens sana in corpore sano.

I was losing grip as well this summer, so I started road cycling: only a few km at first, but now I have no issues with doing centuries (i.e. 100km).

I can't give you any guarantees because I wasn't exactly burned out yet, but it helped me big-time, and I've lost some weight and built some physique while doing it.

Some might say there's a nice metaphor in cycling further each time, but you can be the judge of that.

My mind might be rambling 24 hours per day, but when I get on that bike, it takes about 15 minutes and I'm fully Zen again...

Maybe cycling isn't your thing, and you might prefer running, walking or even putty-golf, but try to find something physical and do it for at least 1 hour, 3 days per week...

<comment><USER19> How do you deal with the sore as hell sit bones?

<comment><USER20> Finding the right saddle for your particular anatomy helps a LOT (I swear by ISM saddles, but lots of people hate them)

So does finding the right cycling shorts (you want a good quality pad, but _too_ thick and you'll chafe).

A good bike fit by an experienced fitter goes a long way towards improving comfort on long rides. You don't necessarily need a $300 3D geometry fitting (unless you're a pro or aspiring pro), but something more than the "free with purchase" fit from your local shop can help.

Unfortunately, a good deal of the fix for sore sit bones is simply putting in the time until your body gets used to the stress you're asking of it. You have to build up the number of hours/miles in the saddle _slowly_ over time until your body adapts. If you're riding for an hour a couple of times a week and then suddenly go out and try to do a 4hr weekend ride... it's gonna hurt.

<comment><USER21> > good deal of the fix for sore sit bones is simply putting in the time until > your body gets used to the stress you're asking of it.

That's my experience.

I also tried a $120 saddle following a fitting session. It was torture (I tried it for months). I picked up a $12 saddle from Lidl and all the pain went away. YMMV.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> Sometimes you just have to quit and sleep for a few months, and then sit and stare at the sky for a few more months, before you can realize the psychological and spiritual black hole you have been descending into for years/decades.

</comment><comment><USER23> I took off almost a year. It was so worth it. I coded every day for 8 hrs a day 5-7 days a week and I was doing it for the sheer love of it. I reconnected with why I love coding.

I also worked out, cooked dinner for my wife, did all the errands, etc. Overall, I was never bored a single day, and I would quit in a heartbeat and do the same if I every made enough money (unlikely). I had saved up a decent amount of money, but that time off cost me about $60,000 and it's not something I can afford anymore now that I have kids, unless I hit the jackpot.

<comment><USER24> _but that time off cost me about $60,000_

How did that compare with the costs you'd imagined beforehand? Were there any big-ticket costs associated with taking a sabbatical which you hadn't expected?

</comment></comment><comment><USER25> >At the moment I want nothing to do with it, but I think that's fueled by my burnout.

To put it into technological terms: if you want to solve a problem, you must first find out why it is there.

In your case: a burnout is not a problem and you cannot "solve" it. Burnout is a symptom, a warning sign by your subconsciousness. You need not to solve it, but rather find out why it occurs and solve this issue. This can be extremely difficult and please do not hesistate to seek professional help. It will be expensive, but worth it. Humans are no machine. If you are male, then please try to ignore society that tells you men must not be weak.

Just from reading your text it might very well be that you live a lie, meaning, that you do not really like your job but just the things that come with it, may it be wealth, status, recognition. If that is the case, quit. Do something that you always loved to do but discarded doing (maybe because you thought it was silly).

You can and you will recover from your burnout, but it will take time. Give yourself this time. You are a person, you are allowed to have feelings.

I wish you the best of luck! If you need anyone to talk, you can comment below and I will give you my email :)

<comment><AUTHOR> Thank you!

<comment><USER25> Sure thing! If you wish to speak to (anonymously if you so wish, no problem at all for me), just shoot me an email at firstname.lastname@example.com :) I believe in such times talking about how you feel helps recovering.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> > Best idea I have is to take a couple months off and try to recover from my > burnout, and hope it becomes clear what I'd like to do next -- even if it's > a similar role at another company. But taking time off with nothing lined up > has its own risks, and I imagine there's more to it than simply "not > working."

I've been there. My advice is that "not working" probably isn't enough. You need to focus on something. For me a non-trivial part of it was regaining control of my life, but also not having too many things to stress about.

If you have a couple months my advice would be to hop on/in your favorite vehicle of choice: bicycle, scooter, motorcycle, car, truck whatever as long as it travels on the ground.

Assuming you're in the US then head south, for one month, and north for one via another route. No, it does not matter if you know Spanish. You only need a handful of phrases to get by and you can pick up the rest along the way. You should be able to make it past the southern border of Mexico. Stop at some of the amazing ruins. Eat whatever random meat is being cooked on the roadside. Smile, and laugh.

You will be in control of every decision that affects you, but there will be very few. Get up. Choose a road and a goal to attempt to reach before the day ends. You may or may not make it. It doesn't matter. Choose when to eat. Choose where to sleep. Repeat.

I spent 4 months with my wife [http://www.corporaterunaways.com/trips/boston- to-ushuaia/](http://www.corporaterunaways.com/trips/boston-to-ushuaia/) heading to the bottom of South America. It was completely rejuvenating and life altering (in a good way).

Want something a little easier? Head north to Prudhoe Bay Alaska then make your way back home.

If you're not in the US do the same thing over some other countries. I swear to you that the hardest part is leaving. Traveling through foreign countries where you don't speak the language is actually pretty easy. ;)

Things to note about this strategy (especially if you travel through notably different countries): It gives you lots of time to relax (many miles between places). You see amazing and beautiful things that will inspire you. You have lots of time to think (many miles between places). You meet wonderful people who will help you just because they're good humans. You will remember why life can be good. You'll be reminded just how amazing we have it in our 1st world countries.

<comment><AUTHOR> Wow, that sounds like an incredible trip! Thanks for taking the time to reply.

</comment></comment><comment><USER27> If it's a large company I imagine there are many positions open. With enough clout - why not become an executive, or even take a step lower, in another area of the business? Hopefully the company values your leadership and managerial skills (and less so your tech knowledge, since you're high up) and will give you a chance for something new. Having something new will give you a drive to learn and enjoy your new position.

Others in your company may be able to provide feedback on the possibility of doing this...Even talking to them may open doors for the new position. Just make sure it's not a worse position that will give more burnout!

</comment><comment><USER28> Take some time off and do something for yourself. Build a boat or a hot rod. Renovate your home. Write a book. Learn to surf. Or sit around and play video games. It doesn't matter. You set the goal and the schedule; you're your only customer. Burnout happens when you are faced with unrealistic or conflicting obligations, which are abundant in the office. This means you must also be circumspect about the expectations you set for yourself, and make sure you are truly fulfilled by what you choose to fill your downtime with.

</comment><comment><USER29> Hard to give concrete advice without knowing your specifics (how many months/years of savings do you have? Do you have any dependents? Any debt such as a mortgage? Etc).

As other commenters point out, not working a regular day job is probably a starting point, but not sufficient. Traveling (Or perhaps even living abroad), volunteering, focusing on a hobby you put on hold while you focused on your job are all viable options.

<comment><USER30> Good answer—it truly depends. All these replies urging you to take a bunch of time off and blow a chunk of change on world travel are making lots of assumptions about your financial and family situation.

Here are some things you can try if you only want to take only a little time off or none at all: Downgrade a little bit in terms of job responsibilities. See if you can work fewer hours or take every other Friday off. Switch industries—if you're in B2B now maybe go work on consumer tech. Find a non- tech hobby to help you not think about work when you're not in the office.

You don't necessarily have to quit and blow your savings.

</comment></comment><comment><USER31> When you are burned out - it's not possible to properly give yourself to even the most interesting opportunities. Trying to find something new is still ignoring the actual problem.

You need to relax for a while (not the same as doing nothing)

The point of burnout is that your mind & body has had enough of doing what you are doing and desperately needs a break where nothing is planned, commitments are limited and you can do (or not do) whatever takes you in the moment.

Currently your burnout is affecting your work day, if left unchecked it will invade your home life to - until you don't want to do even the most basic of daily tasks.

Take note now and put an firm date in the calendar. At the very least a date for a a long break. Go back after the holiday break and let people know your plans for 2018. Start winding down to that date.

Try not to expect yourself to be 'better' in 2-3 months. It has taken you 6 years of working to get to this point.

Just give yourself the breathing space your mind is telling you it needs.

</comment><comment><USER32> There was a period in time when I also experienced an extreme burnout. Once, partly because of it and the entailing lack of interest in life, I wasn't paying attention descending the stairs in an old house and hit my head against a hard furniture (truth be told, it was the stairs leading to the upper floor. The stairs were located one above the other in that house) and got a concussion. I took 2 months off in total and then returned to work as fresh as before the burnout. During the time off I spent a lot of time recovering from the injury, sleeping (partly because of the side effects of shitty drugs they prescribe here) and strolling across the city. I also listened to a couple of audiobooks in English (which was entertaining in itself since it's not my mother tongue) and read a couple of great books

</comment><comment><USER33> Stay in a monastery for some days - that's what I regurlarly do once or twice a year. Look for a monastery where you can stay as a guest, and take part in the daily life of the monks (more or less intensive, depending on your attitude to religion). This time helps me to focus on my life, my goals, my past, my future - to have time to reflect on that - and only on that. Usually I go there for three or four days. Such a stay won't solve any problems concerning burnout, at least not immediately. It will, however, give you occasion to focus on them with the less possible amount of disturbings from the world around you. Hope this helps.

</comment><comment><USER34> Is it an option to take an extended vacation (3 weeks +) before you make your next move?

If having nothing lined up is adding to your stress levels then kick off the job search and be upfront with them that you want to take some time off before you start or you could just tell them you have a long notice period.

Before you go ahead and hand in your notice it's probably worth talking to you immediate boss (or their boss even) to tell them you feel a little burned out and that you'd like to take some unpaid leave / a mini sabbatical. But be prepared for them to give you your notice when you have this conversation.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks. I'm worried about asking for a favor like that from my boss and coming back only to quit. And I'm worried that they'll misunderstand the term "burnout" and it will limit my options for returning one day in the future. What do you think?

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> > I've decided I need to quit.

OK fair enough. But ... have you tried various options first within your current job? Have you asked for an extended holiday? Could you change your commute so you cycle in at least part way? A four day week? Have you looked at your schedule and tried to add more exercise? Are you sleeping 8 hours? Have you asked for a sabbatical? (ARM for example will give you a paid three month sabbatical every four years.) I say this because you said at one point you loved the work. You might just need to shake things up a bit.

If you really decided to move on then lots of good advice here already...

<comment><AUTHOR> I haven't asked for an extended holiday. I'm worried about making such a big ask of my boss (our culture is not very progressive) and then coming back only to quit. What do you think?

<comment><USER10> Why is an extended holiday such a big ask? - would they rather give you that or lose you to ill health? What you could do is just quit, take a few months off then start applying for a new job. I would have thought someone with your level of experience could easily find a new gig. Only you know your exact situation.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER35> One thing I've taken to doing is use neither my phone nor my computer at all for the entire weekend. If you are already burnt out maybe this won't help, but for me it makes an otherwise intense work schedule more sustainable.

Also, I'd heard that you have to completely check out for 10 days on a vacation before you get any restorative benefits. Even checking email one day can reset the clock, or so I heard.

</comment><comment><USER36> Yes, take some time off. Downsize first though, get rid of extra expenses and build up savings.

A trip where you have to do something for unrelated can help.

</comment><comment><USER37> Find a small town in New Mexico and discover you love painting landscapes. Or go engage in some nice poverty tourism in Africa or South America. India, if there is a spiritual-but-not-religious side of you. Maybe take your talents to a small non-profit.

The burnout-recovery process for Tech Executives is a well-worn path. You will be alright.

</comment><comment><USER38> Get a bicycle and just ride it everywhere.

</comment><comment><USER39> Just wrote about this recently: [https://medium.com/@trentlapinski/how-i- overcame-burnout-and...](https://medium.com/@trentlapinski/how-i-overcame- burnout-and-anxiety-a29ed89c0ec1?source=linkShare-138c86887e95-1514318236)

</comment><comment><USER40> > take a couple months off

Yep, as with many people, usually the role is still a good fit, you just need a break from it. That time will help you figure out your next steps, which likely is some variation of what you're already doing, but with a clean slate that a new position provides.

</comment><comment><USER41> Mind is like rubber, once it stretch to a given length for long periods it will stay as it is. Burn out is only a sign, you have to find another life. As Joseph Campbell said, " _Follow your bliss.._ "

<comment><USER41> Joseph Campbell on Following Your Bliss: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLKUFYAOoRI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLKUFYAOoRI)

</comment></comment><comment><USER42> Prevention is better than recovery. I work on a lot of very different projects and cycle between them as I get bored of one or burnt out on another.

</comment><comment><USER43> Cut everything out. Go primal for 2-3 days.

</comment><comment><USER43> Cut everything out. Go primal.

</comment><comment><USER44> You will need at least a year

</comment><comment><USER45> After my startup i felt empty and unable to bring up even the slightest amount of energy to deal with anything related to business, legal stuff, marketing or startup things. However i was still in love with software in general and knew I needed to recharge but wanted to stay in the industry in long term.

This are the things i tried and how they worked out for me:

The bad:

\- do "nothing" this could be healing for certain people especially in combination with a 'holiday' setting. But i have never really enjoyed holidays and after one week of relaxing i felt it could just lead into a real depression and i got as fast out of this as possible. Important was the distance from what i do, to be able to think the right amount, but not have too much freedom to overthink and start a brooding kind of thinking.

\- try to do "agency work": in theory this was a good idea, i could earn a bit of money, have a working contract to calm down banks and landlords and at the same time learn a fast paced client focused development setup. However I hated all the people and how they saw life and tech compared to my hacker or hustler acquaintances from before. Also the stress was not self made but the agency constantly exerted pressure to fulfill client deadlines so i could not stay distanced enough to really heal and recharge or even think the healthy amount. Also the programming was the bad kind of programming, it does not help to become a better dev to just learn how to pump out work using rails gems.

The good:

\- work for an NGO: I joined an NGO to improve health software systems for africa. This was exactly right in many ways: I could continue writing software and continue becoming a better developer but without the pressure to be "perfect". Working part time i could scale up and down as I needed. I could help people and got all the gratification of knowing to do the right thing. Also I got a new perspective to the world and practicability of ideas being in liberia and working with developers from nigeria. Time to get out was when NGO politics started getting in the way of writing software.

\- work for a huge ecommerce platform: this sounded bad and similar to the agency in theory but in practice was really good. I did not give the slightest about the product so remained pretty distant but was in a constant setting of a huge and successful company and experienced all the problems and solutions to team productivity and project management as well as inhomogenous large scale software systems. Also i earned enough to pay off all debts and have the existential threat of thinking about money removed was the final ingredient to recharging for me.

\- making music: Working on a product I don't care about when I worked for years on a product that I dearly loved and lived opened up a hole that I first filled with reflection and breathing but when that was enough I needed to be active and made a lot of music. This was very therapeutic and fulfilling at the same time. Just the perfect combination for my final recharge and mental digestion.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for the thoughtful reply! Really helpful. The NGO sounds interesting. I read about a company like that that used pouchdb...wonder if it's the same one.

<comment><USER45> Thanks! Probably the same one, they were called "eHealth Africa".

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER46> Been burnt out myself. Coached a few friends and coworkers through their burnouts. My advice: See what's the longest vacation you can take.

If you're at the point of quitting - just be honest. Tell your Boss that you're burning out and thinking of quitting. You would like to just take a month off or six weeks to recover. You can phrase it as something else entirely to a different part of the team, but be honest with your boss and see if you can get approval for the time off (even unpaid) so you don't spend your time off worrying about finding a job when you get back.

Then take it, worry free. Don't make any decisions in the first 10 days. If you manage to make it 7 days without touching work things, then start thinking about it. Think about whether you liked what you were doing, whether you want to go back.

I've found this strategy has worked for the handful of people who have tried it.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks. Don't you worry about asking for such a favor from your boss and then coming back only to quit?

<comment><USER46> Not really: it is a gamble you both are playing.

For your Boss, replacing you will take much longer than the 6 week sabbatical she's giving you, AND it will probably cost her more than your salary in that interim. So if you're quitting today, she'd like to take the gamble that you stay. Her gamble is that you are actually happy at your gig as you say you are, and she can save herself a whole lot of hassle. Worst case scenario she loses a month of lead time on an at-least-3-months headhunt. A bit of a wincer, but you can try to make that easier by letting her know as soon as you know that you're done.

If the job market was different, then I would be much more timid about the open strategy. If you do, in fact, dislike your job and are never going to come back, then you're changing the odds on the gamble and hurting your Boss unnecessarily. This could all backfire if your Boss doesn't value you as much as you think they do, but no one is usually off-base on that.

<comment><AUTHOR> Good point. Thanks.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER47> If you don't see anything better to do then stick to your job. It will not be better if you resign and take something worse. Instead try to change your attitude or take few months off and try to live like an unemployed, just to appreciate what you have now

</comment><comment><USER48> Food-binge for a weekend or longer to the point of becoming sick, hate yourself and promise you not to ever do it again, ... work for a couple of weeks or months like crazy. Repeat.</comment>


Why is the size of RAM always in powers of 2? - <AUTHOR> <comment><USER2> Individual sticks of memory always are powers of 2 because of how multiplexers/demultiplexers work.

Basically there is a bit of circuit where every word of memory connects to a bus. The Mux decides which one of the words is loaded on the bus. A series of wires controls which gate is open.

If there is 1 wire there are two possibilities

0, 1

If there are 2 wires there are four possibilities

00, 01, 10, 11

If there are n wires there are n^2 possibilities.

Not using all the possible words for the number of wires. Example 3 words when using 2 wires would cause there to be inputs that break the state machine the instruction stack is interacting with and make developing for the chip very complicated.

So the number of words that can be pulled is restricted by the capacity of the Mux, which is driven by wires that are either off or on. This causes the powers of 2.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_controller](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_controller)

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiplexer](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiplexer)

</comment><comment><USER3> This is more a question of address space. If I have 1 bit, I can address 2 things (0, 1). If I have 2 bits, I can address 4 things (00, 01, 10, 11). With 2 bits, you can also address 3 things, but then you are wasting precious bits, so it makes sense to try to fill up the address space available. Basically everything inside a computer is based in binary and is therefore held to some relationship with powers of 2. The way these addresses work in hardware is basically to go into a massive decoder that lights up the right bit and makes that bit available. If you don't use all your bits, you are basically wasting available logic circuitry. In most DRAM (which is what you think of usually talking about RAM), the capacitor is not the expensive part, the control circuits are, so if you waste control circuits, you are not making the best performance/cost proposition.

</comment><comment><USER4> Total physical ram of the machine, ram modules or ram allocated by the software?

The first is not always power of two - a machine with 6GB of ram works just fine, the third - it is more convenient to allocate power of 2 sized blocks of ram because this makes the allocation algorithms faster.

The second - not sure but I suppose it is more convenient - while there may not be reasons while you cannot have 1023 Mbit block it makes no sense because everything else is based on the power of 2 in computers anyway.

</comment><comment><USER5> Because when you add a wire to address bytes, you multiply by 2 the number of addressable bytes.</comment>


Ask HN: How do you pay overseas freelancers? - <AUTHOR> <comment><USER2> I'm a UK-based DevOps consultant and often do work for overseas clients.

So long as your freelancer is working through their own company it should be easy for them to invoice a client overseas. Agree beforehand (like, when you ink the contract) on the payment currency so no party gets surprised by fluctuations. Also agree who pays the transfer charges, if any.

Since I have a company bank account it's relatively easy for clients to send an international transfer for the amount. You'll need an IBAN number from them (see [http://www.paymentsuk.org.uk/policy/payments-industry- standa...](http://www.paymentsuk.org.uk/policy/payments-industry- standards/iban)) and given this, your bank should be able to make it happen.

In my experience payments from the US often get small amounts creamed off the top for unspecified (& probably illegal) "fees" by the various banks the money passes through. Generally I either take the hit or tack the missing amount onto the client's next invoice.

Another option - if you're feeling lucky - is simply to use PayPal. However be ready for them to hit you with fees (last time I looked it seemed to be around 2.5%) and you always run the risk of them impounding the money. While more effort, IBAN transfers are probably better.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for the reply.

Sounds like the process is smooth when they are working through a company but, how about paying individual contractors?

<comment><USER2> I can only speak for the UK, but for tax & legal reasons any contractor ought to be working through a company.

Most find it efficient to run a small business of their own (an accountant will handle 99% of the paperwork) but others - for example those who don't expect to be a contractor for long - can join an "umbrella company" operated by an accountant. Then they invoice via the umbrella company and most of the money passes back to them. Generally this has a higher cost & less scope for reducing the tax burden, but has the benefit of avoiding the long-term commitment of running your own company.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> Used Transferwise with few clients from USA, and had great results with it (quick payments, notifications).</comment>


Snatchbot Disrupts the Market with Free Automated Speech Recognition - <AUTHOR> https://www.jpost.com/Special-Content/SnatchBot-disrupts-the-market-with-free-automated-speech-recognition-569422 <comment><USER2> What an unfortunate name! SnatchBot will likely have unwanted associations and they clearly didn't do much background research.

As for the article, it's written in a very pompous wordy way (especially given their over confidence in English), it feels like a poor marketing attempt.</comment>


The World Is Built on Probability (1988) - <AUTHOR> https://archive.org/details/TheWorldIsBuiltOnProbability/ <comment><USER2> Interesting title, and I will have to dip into the book when I have some spare time, but statements like "the world is built on probability" always sound strange to me. Is it that chance and randomness are fundamental aspects of our world, or is it that our knowledge of the world is inherently limited, and the laws of probability that people have expressed over time are useful descriptive tools that help us choose or dismiss certain outcomes based on the knowledge we do have? If the latter is true, I would not say the world is "built" on probability, but that the way we perceive the world can be built on probability.

<comment><USER3> I've been reading a book on the philosophy of statistics, and what is interesting is that the statistical community has been, historically, completely divided on that question.

The only thing they agree on is the equations. Once you ask the question of "and what situation are we facing in the real world" consensus starts to break down.

Interestingly, the core of probability - the "Random Variable" is almost completely unobservable in the world of science. Everything in classical mechanics turned out to be deterministic. The parts that were grappled with statistics were probably not random effects, but unpredictable deterministic effects. For example, the measurement errors could be treated as random variables, but ultimately were not expected to be random in cause.

Compare this to geometry and algebra, where I would argue it is easier to find a 'real' example right from the get go. Opinions, obviously, vary.

<comment><USER4> Quantum mechanics has a lot of random variables.

<comment><USER5> Cipher text can look a lot like randomness to the uninformed observer. If a deterministic system produces results, but the observer cannot model the underlying process from the results, are those results now random?

<comment><USER6> Now might be a good time to brush up on [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell's_theorem](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell's_theorem)

<comment><USER7> > "Bell's theorem rules out _local hidden variables_ as a viable explanation > of quantum mechanics (though it still leaves the door open for _non-local > hidden variables_ , such as De Broglie–Bohm theory, etc)"

<comment><USER8> > though it still leaves the door open for non-local hidden variables, such as > De Broglie–Bohm theory

Though non-local hidden variable theories need to be reconciled with special relativity lest it be possible to transmit information faster than light.

<comment><USER9> Enter the implicate (folded) order of the holoverse ("holographic universe"), which Bohm (among others) developed and supported.

See the non-local, higher-ordering properties of true holograms and eg. this mixed fluid experiment: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpJ- kGII074](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpJ-kGII074)

More on all this in Michael Talbot's amazing book "Holographic Universe": [https://wikischool.org/book/holographic_universe](https://wikischool.org/book/holographic_universe)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> I majored in physics with a minor in statistics. Both fields massively opened my eyes to the way the world actually works.

</comment><comment><USER11> Sounds interesting... who has read it?

</comment><comment><USER12> I can't find any fleshed out reviews of this online so it's hard to know what to expect.

<comment><USER13> Books from Mir Publishers that get translated to english are generally a good bet (they're Russian publishers from Soviet times). We used many books from Mir Publishers to learn Science and math in high school, they were all generally very good. I specifically remember a book called Problems in Physics by Irodov that I spent many joyous semesters working with.

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> what are the odds of that?</comment>


Ask HN: Pros and cons of Solutions Engineer after being a developer - <AUTHOR> I need some advice on a career decision. I have a couple of years as a developer before I got my current job and in my current job I don't do a lot of development but when its needed I can always get it done quickly compared to any pre-sales engineer. My question is, is it a right time to move in to presales/solutions engineer? Or should I look for a development job and go into solutions engineer after a few years?
Any advices/experiences from fellow HN'ers?
Background: 2 years as a developer 1.5 year as a consultant/developer <comment><USER2> It depends on the type of development work you'll be working in. The main role of a Solutions Engineer is to translate marketing vision into technical specs. Take note on the word "vision", it means the customer will have high expectations because usually marketing/sales will present your product like it can do everything. Solutions Engineers mainly deal with high-touch sales, only means one thing: large enterprise customers.

If the customers you'll be handling would be up in AWS/Google, it's good, but if they have on-premise, that means you'll really have to know your stuff about the following:

\- Feature Lists - translating what the product does into a feature list that describes perfectly what the customers are looking for. Makes it easier for them to explain to the board so they can get budget and approach finance and procurement.

\- Active Directory or Auth0 integrations

\- Network - from DNS/dnsmasq to iptables

\- VA stuff - meeting generic hardening requirements and VA scans, java key stores, SSL certificates/ciphers and ton of Linux/Unix or Powershell.

\- Linux/Unix - NTP, mail servers if need be, proxying using nginx/apache, user access, etc.

\- Architecture - explaining the entire product in high-level and how components integrate with a customers current infrastructure

\- Benchmarking - customers will ask apples to apples comparisons with other vendors, and they'll stick by your numbers.

\- Appliance/Infrastructure sizing - you'll probably take part by this. Certain customers will definitely ask data growth and network growth as well. They need this to line up corporate budget.

and a lot more

So being a web developer is just a piece of the pie. Full stack is a must.</comment>


CIA says FOIA for telecom data gathering objections "too burdensome" - <AUTHOR> https://www.muckrock.com/foi/united-states-of-america-10/internet-service-provider-data-gathering-objections-central-intelligence-agency-6275/#comm-37135

<comment><USER2> They should be sued for this. The only reason the request for so much data is "unreasonable", is because the very _collection_ of it is so unreasonable. If they went through the trouble of collecting so much of it, then they better be ready to respond to FOIA requests for it.</comment>


Four Reasons a Guaranteed Income Won't Work - <AUTHOR> https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2013-12-04/four-reasons-a-guaranteed-income-won-t-work <comment><USER2> wont work? the only thing people has to do with that money is spend it...how difficult could that be?

<comment><USER3> I don't see how it can. Let's say we give out $1 trillion worth of basic income to everyone. Is there $1 trillion more goods and services available to spend that on? No. In fact, depending on how many spend their time on non- productive work, there might be a lot less. So a lot more money chasing fewer goods and services. Classical price inflation will quickly make that basic income have no purchasing power.

<comment><USER4> This is a weak argument. First of all, it seems as a strawman argument, since you assume a trillion dollars get somehow injected while the amount of goods and services stay the same. Secondly, you assume people will suddenly stop being productive, which probably might be true in cases where people earn so little that it is much less than the basic income (which is one of the problems basic income tries to solve).

<comment><USER3> I picked $1 trillion because I've read that as an estimate (actually read $3 trillion, so was trying to be conservative).

Where the money comes from is important though which you point out probably wouldn't just be printed (injected from nowhere), but pulled from somewhere else. So where DOES it come from? I'm assuming one way or another it comes from the rich or from companies -- where else would we come up with that kind of money? But that doesn't change the idea that 330 million (I'm using USA numbers) people suddenly have significant more money than they had before. What will they spend it on? Everyone can't upgrade their housing -- the housing available is finite, and supply pretty much meets demand. Giving everyone money increases demand, but how will supply change to meet that? Go through the same thought process on cars, food, electronics, toys, clothing, transportation, energy, raw materials, etc. Increased demand on everything will increase prices pretty much across the board. It's Econ 101.

<comment><USER4> The number is fine; I take it's reasonable since we are talking about ensuring BI for a lot of people. Yes, it makes sense that the money comes from the richest, where we assume the government is actually capable to achieve it in some way.

So you are essentially saying that the money that was hoarded by rich, now would not be spent at all, and in addition, this would raise prices across the market. This does not make any sense to me, since the assumptions that need to hold for that kind of result seem invalid: firstly, you need scarsity of goods in the existing situation for this to happen which is clearly not the case (especially when we talk about demands of the lower and middle class); secondly, demands would go higher yes, but only proportionally to existing division of classes of consumers -- thus, we would essentially have a situation in which all classes get promoted in their "buying power" except the very rich (and therefore, no big disruption to the market overall).</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: How do you present your SaaS offer to potential customers? - <AUTHOR> After you've had meetings with potential customers you usually send them some documents explaining the service as well as a price quotation.
Do you share a google doc? A website? Do you send them a pdf?
- How many pages? - Do you use images/screenshots?
Alternatively, if you're a purchaser of SaaS services, how would you like to receive the information/offer? <comment><USER2> I'm going to guess based on what you've outlined here you're selling B2B? Perhaps at enterprise level?

All things being equal, the content of what you're sending is more important than how you send it. PDFs, Google Docs, whatever - who cares...if the content outlines concisely how your SaaS offer makes/saves the customer money and the other associated benefits you can afford to send it on a frickin' napkin :)

You're over thinking the other stuff. You include a number of pages that is essential for the conveying of useful information to the prospect. Customers aren't going to scoff at a proposal because it's < 10 pages! Just don't pad it out with a load of corporate shit, keep it on point and yes a picture says a 1000 words so if a picture helps to sell the vision, include it.

I presume given you're engaged in selling your wares you've carried out competitor analysis? What do they send to their prospects? If you don't have competitors (I doubt it) what do companies that you like send out? If you've not secret shopped them already I recommend you do. Smart Bear ([https://smartbear.com/](https://smartbear.com/)) are one of my go to companies for researching how to go about software sales.

I do this stuff for a living, if you want any other feedback or perhaps examples of what does/doesn't work hit me up. My details are in my HN profile.

<comment><AUTHOR> That's correct, we sell B2B enterprise stuff. I find myself changing the format from customer to customer, ending up spending too much time on this crucial process. I'd like to standardize the docs/info to adhere to the receivers' preferred format.

I agree that the content is everything.

You raise some good questions regarding competitors. From what I've seen they send out generic pdf's and a generic project timeline. I need to study them more closely. I'd like to one-up them by having something convenient, effective and visually appealing.

<comment><USER3> No offense but you're wasting time. It doesn't matter if it's PDF vs doc vs whatever.

You _need_ to offer something very compelling (not the brochures / leave- behinds.. the service). You (usually) either need to take away pain or give them something of value. In what I sell, they need to leave that first meeting saying "holy shit... how do we get this in house / how do we get to use this now?". My best leave behind is references who are in the same space ;)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> For those answering, what do you think of designing a "free" product to let the client use as a "gift" for their time. Perhaps your pricing tier has no freemium but after getting a meeting with the client you offer a special freemium version with the sentiment being "look, whether you choose our service or not let me give you this product which can help your operations even if you don't pay a dime"

I think for most this would seem like a good idea. You are both giving the potential client a chance to use the service and maybe signaling that you aren't desperate for the sale that you are just as happy if they just get value out of the free gift. But then there's pricing theory, maybe just giving away what is supposed to be so valuable "cheapens" your product and signals that in fact you're desperate to sell so you're giving it away.

I'm sure striking a balance is required here but I'm curious where on this scale from "generosity signals abundance" to "scarcity signals value" do your recommendations fall?

<comment><USER5> I don't like "free" models since people tend to value something what they paid for it. I prefer to offer a full 60 day money back guarantee instead.

If you do go down the free route ask for nothing - no names, no email, no sign up, nothing, just limited the usage. I do this for my products and I get lots of "shy" users that convert to sales because the barrier to trying our products is much lower. If you have a great product make it as easy as possible to try.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> In engaging potential clients focus all of your time and energy on the conversation and the close.

Collateral materials are helpful when you are casting a wide net and you have the resources to take a shot-gun blast approach. It sounds like you have limited resources, which makes the leave-behind a very low priority. Today, gathering the data on what to present and how is the priority.

If you are the only person doing sales, or if there are only a few of you, the best approach is to use email. You should be sending a follow-up email anyway, even if you leave something behind to move things forward to the next step. It's direct, personal and it can be customized quickly and easily for each customer. Then you can use the experiences using email to inform the needs of collateral materials down the line.

Finally, when you do put something together that checks enough boxes based on real client responses it should be available everywhere. Meaning, something printed when you leave the meeting, an attachment in a follow-up email, a link in your email signature to something viewable on your site. You'll find everyone will access it differently, so provide everything. Today, I have enterprise contacts that will ask for a fax. That always amazes me, and then I send an efax.

</comment><comment><USER7> You need to start reading [https://www.saastr.com/](https://www.saastr.com/) immediately.

Jason Lemkin has great insight into how to sell to SaaS products, how to run SaaS businesses and everything else SaaS.

Good Luck!</comment>


The 100 Year Old Electric Car - <AUTHOR> http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/jay-leno/vintage/4215940

<comment><USER2> Bill Lear tried to build a steam engine to win the Indy 500 in the late sixties but failed. It was called the Vapordyne and I can remember it excited a lot of peoples imagination at the time.

[http://modernsteampower.wordpress.com/2012/08/24/lear- vapord...](http://modernsteampower.wordpress.com/2012/08/24/lear-vapordyne- steam-car/)

Really curious why someone hasn't used today's tech to reinvent the steam powered car. Or a small steam engine to power an electric hybrid, it would use a tiny fraction of the fuel of a Prius.

</comment><comment><USER3> Here's a site with pictures of more than 50 (!!) early electric cars:

[http://www.lowtechmagazine.com/overview-of-early-electric- ca...](http://www.lowtechmagazine.com/overview-of-early-electric-cars.html)

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> I actually submitted this hoping it'd already been submitted and discussed and HN would redirect me to the thread, but it turns out it hadn't been submitted. I'd searched to no avail. Anyway.

If they had a working electric car in 1909, I have no idea what to think. Because there's so much to think:

 _How different would the world have turned out if vehicles powered with electricity, rather than gasoline, had become the main mode of 20th century transport.

_ How differently the development of and investment in electricity generation and transmission would have developed if the point above were true.

*How much better off the world would be today, in terms of environmental pollution.

I'd love for somebody to burst this bubble for me, coz the idea that we had a working, production electric car in 1909 but still somehow fucked it up is depressing for me.

<comment><USER4> The first car to wear the name Porsche was an electric car in 1898: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lohner- Porsche](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lohner-Porsche)

It also had 4 wheel drive with the motors in the wheel hubs. However it was also prohibitively expensive. (Roughly $94,930.99 in today's dollars)

<comment><USER5> That's about what they cost now. Sounds like the "Porsche" is a more stable denominator of value than anything else, including gold.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Is the torque figure for the Doble Steamer correct? 1000 lb-ft is quite a bit more than the 687 in Tesla's top performance model. That car would fly like a rocket.

<comment><USER7> Steam power has ridiculous torque. It's like electrical in that the maximum power is available at 0 rpm.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> The Baker Electric is the car that Grandma Duck drives. I remember being surprised as a teenager many years ago when I discovered that there actually had been a car that looked like Grandma Duck's car.

[http://www.geocaching.com/geocache/GCXP5M_grandma-ducks- car](http://www.geocaching.com/geocache/GCXP5M_grandma-ducks-car)

</comment><comment><USER9> For those interested in this topic in the DC area, a couple of these are currently on display at the Smithsonian National Museum of American History.

[http://americanhistory.si.edu/press/releases/100-years- perso...](http://americanhistory.si.edu/press/releases/100-years-personal- electric-transportation-goes-view-%E2%80%9Camerica-move%E2%80%9D-exhibition)

</comment><comment><USER10> OT: Is anyone else unable to zoom in Chrome on that page? The rest of Popular Mechanics' site works well, but for some reason CTRL+/-, CTRL+Scroll, or Zoom through the settings menu is completely locked.</comment>


Show HN: quick social contact list concept of mine - <AUTHOR>

just another late night, weekend idea of mine.
my totally refined elevator pitch: it's Quora, without the Q&A. what does this leave, you might ask? well, the best part, imo - contacting people of interest, easily.
i just finished a couple hours of coding on this, and you can only really sign up and set your contact information. once you set your contact info, you're indexed by the full text search engine. people can locate you based on your name, email and company for now. It supports full-text searching, so searching for any part of the available fields will result in a match.
being the super awesome day dreamer that i am, i have about 100 feature ideas for this. does anyone think this might be cool or useful?
temporary url i already owned: http://cohack.it/ <comment><AUTHOR> click: <http://cohack.it/>

this is also hosted from my terrible time warner internet, from my house. apologies if it's super slow. my internet has funky dns issues.

searching for * will show all entries. wildcard support should function as expected.

</comment><comment><USER2> domain and the idea seems a bit unmatched in my view. wildcard support is nice. what features are you planning to add?

<comment><AUTHOR> Ah, yea. The domain has nothing to do with the content, really. It was just a domain that I had.

I'm kind of brainstorming some ideas, but the goal is to keep it simple and minimal. Focus on doing well at locating people's contact info.

<comment><USER2> I see you changed some stuffs today. good to know you are shaping it. i even signed up just for the sake to test it. why you think would people sign up there to just leave out their contact info - and do you care if the contact info is valid?

here are some thoughts

with just search box i don't see any contacts at first visit, add some clue that i will get people's profile using search (don't do that with that one paragraph of text). you can list people's name with profile link in place of the text you are showing below search box (manage this text somewhere with Help??? link). you can work on yammer or LinkedIn like email verification. don't list contacts unless they are from verified domains. make browsing contacts more visible - allow peoples to tag their info and allow browsing by tags too. don't show actual email in plain text on public listing. and when i update settings, info is getting replicated check that too.

good luck. John Doe

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for the feedback. I have been slowly working on this. I'll play around with your suggestions and see if they help.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Paint Is Colored Glue - <AUTHOR> https://delanceyplace.com/view-archives.php?3820 <comment><USER2> Labor has become more expensive than parts, for many aspects of home repair. We haven't adapted our habits to this.

The last time I let my university landlord paint my apartment, it took days to clear the furniture, and I was instructed to do no paint prep. There were peels coming down from the ceiling. The painters exploited this "paint is glue" theory by painting under the peels and pushing them flat. I channeled my desire to kill them on the spot by politely escorted them out in mid-job and never letting anyone paint for me again.

The next time I painted this apartment, I stripped the ceiling bare of its many poorly applied layers, and applied $500 of artist-grade acrylic primer and titanium white paint to the ceiling and walls. 15 years later, the apartment looks just-painted. Artist-grade acrylic paint is one of the best glues available, much more reliably so than oil paint.

In the years since, the best wall paints have come closer to artist-grade acrylic paints, and their glues are likely better tuned to typical conditions. Artist paint is more expensive and better. Carefully tuning a cheap glue is like botching an airplane hardware design and trying to fix it in software.

Later in a home, filling holes in contractor botched cabinet work, I started with artist-grade acrylic modeling putty, added just enough dye from the commercial paint manufacturer to match the existing cabinet paint, tweaked the gloss to also match, and created a one-step wood fill that disappeared into the existing paint job when dry. Much less shrinkage than commercial wood fills, and no primer or repainting needed. Again, acrylic art supplies making the best glue.

<comment><USER3> > _15 years later, the apartment looks just-painted_

Curious what you mean?

In my experience, new paint coats are needed because of marks left on walls -- accumulated smudges, scuffs, furniture bangs, nicks, filled anchor holes, etc. None of which higher-quality paint has anything to do with... I assume?

Am I wrong? Assuming paint is applied correctly in the first place, what are the longevity benefits of using a higher-quality paint?

<comment><USER4> A lot of scuffs and smudges can be cleaned off with a magic eraser and some elbow grease. It's certainly easier than re-painting.

<comment><USER5> Depends on paint sheen (try doing that with flat finish paint - just gonna smear it all over)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> I remember being quite blown away as a 20 year old during a trip to Paris by some of the paintings in the Louvre and the Musée d'Orsay. I had known many of these paintings before, from Wikipedia and school books, but it seems to be impossible to capture the effect of an oil painting in a digital or reproduced image, because, as the article describes, an oil painting is essentially 3-dimensional.

(I also distinctly remember being shocked by the size of some paintings, especially the crowning of Napoleon ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronation_of_Napoleon_I#/medi...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronation_of_Napoleon_I#/media/File:Jacques- Louis_David_-_The_Coronation_of_Napoleon_\(1805-1807\).jpg)) This painting was printed in many of my history school books, but I was not even remotely aware that is nearly 10 meters wide.)

<comment><USER7> I can highly recommend John Berger's legendary documentary series _Ways Of Seeing_. The first episode explores precisely this issue - how our perception of painting is affected by reproduction. It has perhaps the most arresting opening scene of any documentary series.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pDE4VX_9Kk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pDE4VX_9Kk)

<comment><USER8> My favorite painting in the world is Jackson Pollock's _Mural_ , his first major painting. It's owned by my alma mater the U of Iowa. The canvas is 9x20 iirc, just huge. They used to display it in a large central gallery, where you could look at it from more than 50 feet away, or get your nose right up to it.

One of the great things about this painting is how it is a totally different experience at different distances. From a distance, the sense of right-to-left motion is palpable. Get closer, and figures seem to pop out of it. But really close, you can no longer see the entire painting, but you can see individual brushstrokes (mostly 3-6" house painting brushes, I think). The subtlety and detail of each stroke is extraordinary. There are patterns across the canvas that are a result of large-scale patterns of strokes - it's almost like cursive handwriting.

<comment><USER9> Another of my favorite examples of the "reproduction doesn't do any justice" is Mark Rothko. Like Pollock, he's often held up as example of an artist whose work "doesn't look like anything" and "my kid could do that." And it's true, if you're looking at a poster of a Rothko, it just looks like some large splotches of color.

But, in a gallery, people encounter the Rothko and just stop. Many of them will stare at those large splotches of color for 1, 2, 5, even 10 minutes. Turns out there's a whole lot going on there that just doesn't translate into print.

Sadly, a lot of the techniques that abstract expressionists used don't translate well into the future, either. Layering just oil paint, that's pretty durable. Layering different kinds of paint, not so much. I've seen a fly dislodge a flake of paint from one of Rothko's paintings just by landing on it.

<comment><USER10> You might be interested by this video about the challenges faced by conservation scientists with Rothko murals : [https://vimeo.com/111469325](https://vimeo.com/111469325)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> I run a paint production company here in Italy (decorative for interior/exterior house use, and various kinds of high-grade industrial coatings) so this article (not to mention the fact that it somehow climbed it was to the top of the front page) amuses me no end.

I've forwarded it to all of my colleagues and they'll all in stitches too. Because basically deep down we know this is the most succinct and relatable description of what we do with our lives. Try as we might to aggrandise things, this is the truth stripped bare.

Unvarnished truth, even. ;)

<comment><USER12> This article is really interesting and I love the insight provided about pigment layering to achieve remarkable effects, however I think what the title says is totally wrong.

Paints are technically coatings and comprise a large and diverse industry of products for wide-ranging applications. Wall paint is very different than artist paint, which is very different than car paint, which is very different than the type of paint you might apply to pipes to prevent corrosion, etc..

Glue is an adhesive, and while the resins used to make adhesives may sometimes be the same resins used to make coatings (Gorilla glue is epoxy-based, and many floor coatings you walk over all day and never think about are epoxy- based as well), the actual products being used -- the can of paint or the stick of glue you buy at the store -- are formulated with resins, pigments, additives, binders, chain-extenders, fillers etc etc, that are specific to the product's unique application.

So basically, paint is not glue. Paints are coatings and glues are adhesives. Sure, paints have to adhere to their substrates, and adhesives must adhere to their sometimes very different substrates as well, but paint and glue are really totally different things. You could say that coatings and adhesives are both formulated polymeric systems, but you miss out on a lot of interesting subtlety that entire industries are based on when you say "paint is glue."

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> Paint, as understood by oil painters and artists, sounds like a slightly different animal than paint as understood by house painters, wood finishers, and other sorts of people with more prosaic requirements of their paints.

Bob Flexner wrote a book for wood finishers, Understanding Wood Finishing, that breaks down oil paint in simple terms for the rest of us:

Some oils (like linseed and walnut) are drying oils, and can be used as a finish on their own, but don't really form a hard film finish.

For that you need a varnish, which is an oil cooked with a resin.

Paint is a varnish with a pigment added.

That's different from an oil mixed with a pigment mentioned in the article, which is probably fundamentally similar to a straight oil in terms of its properties. Maybe somebody who paints with oil paints can weigh in?

His columns in Popular Woodworking and other woodworking magazines are worth a read, as is his book, if you're interested in understanding what you're really working with.

Tying this all back to the article, I'd disagree with the claim that paint is "colored glue". One typically doesn't glue things together with paint, though that is a sometimes unintended consequence of putting something on top of something else with an incompletely cured layer of finish. You certainly couldn't use e.g. linseed oil as a glue in a joint where oxygen isn't getting in readily like a mortise and tenon joint.

A discussion of oil vs varnish here:

[https://www.popularwoodworking.com/techniques/finishing/oil-...](https://www.popularwoodworking.com/techniques/finishing/oil- finishes-their-history-and-use/)

<comment><USER14> The Chem Engineer finds terms like Resin, useless.

It's kind of like saying, tape.

Which tape? Easy peel? Or duct tape?

I imagine that this is possible because there is only one type of resin that's useful in this field. Or trade secrets...

<comment><USER15> There are many different types of bases ("resins") many of which are incompatible which each other, and can neither be mixed nor painted over. E.g. even acrylic lacquers, you can make them as a dispersion (i.e. water based) or using a solvent. Different paints. Not compatible. Both are "acrylic".

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> "The effect of layering is so powerful that it has transcended its roots in painting with oils and is now incorporated into all professional digital illustration tools. If you use Photoshop, or Illustrator, or any other computer graphics tools, you'll be making images in layers."

The layering described there, is more about what blend modes are for, layering can also be quite dumb by itself. The roots of DTP software layers lie pretty much all in the necessities of print, not painting, where you have to have a layer per color anyway.

Wondering why the article stops short of the point, why (digital) reproduction of paintings is a lossy process in general, and especially for archiving. Total Appearance Capture systems exist but are rarely applied to paintings. A 2D-RGB raster can only represent the appearance of a light reflective object from a single angle und very specific ambient conditions. How a painting interacts with light in a room is a complex process of all kinds of optical phenomena (reflection, absorbtion, diffraction, refraction ...) as described in the arcticle.

</comment><comment><USER17> The technique described as "They overlaid many thin layers of oil paint" is technically called glazing. And, by "thin" layers, they mean a layer that is mostly oil, with varying levels of pigment.

Many of the old masters would paint a detailed, monochromatic underpainting, and glaze many layers of color on top of it. Definitely not a process used by people who want to finish quickly.

<comment><USER18> That's interesting, it's very similar to the way many comics are done -- one person does the drawing and inking, and it's often colored by a different person (or at least as a different process if the team is small).

</comment></comment><comment><USER19> That's why you can "glue" wallpaper on the wall with paint.

Rather helpful knowledge, when you just want to put a small piece over a blemish on the wall.

</comment><comment><USER20> > Linseed oil is also used for many applications beyond oil paint, such as > treating wood, to create a transparent, protective plastic barrier -- just > as oil paint does, but this time, without color.

Or for seasoning cast iron! [https://www.cooksillustrated.com/how_tos/5820-the- ultimate-w...](https://www.cooksillustrated.com/how_tos/5820-the-ultimate-way- to-season-cast-iron)

<comment><USER21> Before anyone runs with your suggestion, it's worth pointing out that flaxseed is what people can use (which is a food-grade equivalent to linseed).

And then before anyone runs with _that_ suggestion, it's actually not a great way to season cast iron - it turns brittle and the seasoning will chip away (experienced this myself, and then did research).

A great place to start for seasoning cast iron is on reddit: [https://www.reddit.com/r/castiron/comments/5rhq9n/the_rcasti...](https://www.reddit.com/r/castiron/comments/5rhq9n/the_rcastiron_faq_start_here/)

<comment><USER20> The flaxseed oil method has worked great for me so far. But it is indeed a great internet debate. :)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> This extract is from Delancey Place, which sends a daily email with a para or two from a fascinating book. I am rarely disappointed with their choices. Affilitate link to buy book is at bottom of email, but they seem to invest far more heart in this effort than the revenue would support. Sometimes, curated discovery is just what you need in a rushed morning. Very recommended.

</comment><comment><USER23> One point the article missed is the relationship between Canvas, primer, medium and oil paint. All three are traditionally derived from the same plant: flax. For this reason, there is great chemical compatibility between them, which accounts for their longevity.

Even longer lasting is Buon fresco (the earliest form of fresco). This is essentially pigment painted into wet plaster. The paint is not a glue, rather a stain. Effectively the support and the paint are one.

Another interesting point is the difference between how light paint is applied to dark. Light paint is usually painted quite thickly, and for this reason is very good at reflecting light. This improves the upper registers of the painting. The last thing you want dark paint to do is reflect light. Thickly applied black paint takes on a very 'flat' look. An experienced oil painter would apply black paint as a very thin and 'dry' layer (dry = no or little medium). They are also likely to employ an underpainting layer of brown-red. Applied in this manner the darks have a profound depth. The end result is a profoundly wide dynamic range.

</comment><comment><USER24> Dough is edible glue.

<comment><USER25> All glue is dough if you're brave enough.

</comment></comment><comment><USER26> Interesting. I wish they hadn't thrown in this nonsense though:

> It's exactly the intricate expressiveness of oil paint that made Renaissance > art so sensual and passionate

</comment><comment><USER27> Is there a hidden analogy to programming that I missed? :)

<comment><USER28> Yes. [http://www.paulgraham.com/hp.html](http://www.paulgraham.com/hp.html)

<comment><USER27> Thanks for the link instead of a downvote, never seen this post.

<comment><USER29> I didn't downvote, but your comment comes across as dismissive of the subject because it isn't directly related to digital tech.

<comment><USER30> To clarify, the smiley makes condescending.

<comment><USER27> Really? It was not the intention. I just found it odd to be on the top of HN, so I assumed it to have a deeper meaning which I still find funny.

<comment><USER30> I know, it's the burden of text.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER31> No it's not, as the author says in the _3rd sentence_ of the article. Watercolor paint is not an adhesive in any sense of the word. And there are plenty of paints which also dry, leaving a powder behind that can easily rub off.

So yeah, some paint is glue, some is not.

<comment><USER6> At least the abstract is more precise:

> The secret of _oil_ paint, as mastered by our greatest artists

Nevertheless, an interesting read.

<comment><USER32> The 4th sentence is about watercolor paint:

>Watercolor paint does it by drying, releasing water into the air through evaporation and leaving only the pigments on the page.

This is not glue.

<comment><USER33> The binder, gum arabic, _is_. There's just not much of it.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Show HN: Yoke – Track what matters to you - <AUTHOR> https://common.yoke.io <comment><AUTHOR> Hey guys. I am the founder of the Boston-based startup behind Yoke.

We are building Yoke for folks who struggle to find the balance between staying focused and staying up-to-date.

Yoke has a Trello-like interface and offers 100+ types of cards that query 39 different services. Our Chrome extension automatically bookmarks the links picked up by your Yoke board to save you time. We also have a Slack command that lets you access your Yoke cards.

I appreciate your feedback and suggestions.

<comment><USER2> Interesting. How many people are on your team?</comment></comment>