A collection of videos of police brutality - <AUTHOR> https://thishastostopnow.com <comment><USER2> Site seems to be down so I can't check if these are already submitted, but here are some:

[https://twitter.com/JordanUhl/status/1266917228752056320](https://twitter.com/JordanUhl/status/1266917228752056320)

[https://twitter.com/mollypshe/status/1266934680273727491](https://twitter.com/mollypshe/status/1266934680273727491)

[https://twitter.com/chalametvol6/status/1267059474591879171](https://twitter.com/chalametvol6/status/1267059474591879171)

[https://twitter.com/mollycrabapple/status/126694270336910540...](https://twitter.com/mollycrabapple/status/1266942703369105409)

[https://twitter.com/zellieimani/status/1267057207172050944](https://twitter.com/zellieimani/status/1267057207172050944)

[https://twitter.com/stephenjadler/status/1267153715674349568](https://twitter.com/stephenjadler/status/1267153715674349568)

[https://twitter.com/rsdaza/status/1267200011659554824](https://twitter.com/rsdaza/status/1267200011659554824)

<comment><USER3> > > [https://twitter.com/mollypshe/status/1266934680273727491](https://twitter.com/mollypshe/status/1266934680273727491)

I clicked this. It contains a apparently completely baseless claim that a masked looter is an "undercover cop". The claim also has been denied by the St. Paul police department.

Is it your intention to discredit claims of police brutality by repeating apparently false ones?

<comment><USER2> > I clicked this. It contains a apparently completely baseless claim that a > masked looter is an "undercover cop". The claim also has been denied by the > St. Paul police department.

That is only one of the reports in that lengthy tweet thread. And it's not baseless, here is the evidence for it: [https://twitter.com/dyllyp/status/1266166402521522176](https://twitter.com/dyllyp/status/1266166402521522176)

Here's the tweet where the St. Paul police department denied it: [https://twitter.com/sppdmn/status/1266202225677910022](https://twitter.com/sppdmn/status/1266202225677910022)

Posted 2.5 hours after the original claim - fast investigation for the police to clear themselves of all wrongdoing.

> Is it your intention to discredit claims of police brutality by repeating > apparently false ones?

Lol.

<comment><USER3> > And it's not baseless, here is the evidence for it

Thanks-- I didn't find that from the original link. But I don't really think it supports your argument.

It's pretty hard to identify a person from just the eyes, but to the extent that shows anything it seems to contradict the claim to me: the face on the left appears to me to have a much more prominent brow ridge compared to the face on the right-- like a shelf above his eyes on the left, while the right dips in near the nose.

As far as the officer's ex-wife saying 'that's my mask' \-- the thread shows a bunch of other pictures of protesters with the same mask.

This also explains how they could investigate the claim quickly-- they only needed to identify the location of a single officer.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> This post was number one on HN. Now it's nowhere to be found on HN's pages unless you search for it. I happen to remember the posters handle and was able to dig up the post. The post is not even flagged back so am curious why did it disappear?

<comment><USER5> It's been flagged to oblivion so as not to pierce HN's tender bubble.

Should have mentioned which JS framework was used to build the site so the post would stay on the front page.

<comment><AUTHOR> Haha sadly, there's no JS. I would load vue though if that meant they wouldn't bury the thread..

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Remember a few years ago it came out that Apple filed a patent to disable cameras in a localised area. Speculation was so that law enforcement could disable cameras during protests and riots. In the next few days/weeks, watch if people start saying that they're in these hot zones and their camera phones stop working

<comment><USER7> Imagine being asked by your boss to implement such a thing and actually doing it. How spineless and unethical would you have to be to even consider following such an order.

<comment><USER8> They'd probably take the Volkswagen strategy:

Team A builds a feature that detects when the device is in a localized area. (This already exists)

Team B builds a feature that disables the camera. (I could see this being a parental control)

Both features are reasonable by themselves. It's when they are combined that they become an issue. The trick is that Teams A and B don't know of each other's existence.

<comment><USER9> Someone would have to add their integrations though. The features won't be joined magically together.

<comment><USER10> There are enough qualified amoral mercenary devs out there who would be willing to do it - and keep quiet about it.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> If you're actually trying to fix a problem, there are better ways to go about it.

Why not try to build evidence to determine the reality of the situation? There is nothing honest or good about building a one-sided repository that serves only to confirm political dogma.

What if a fair judgement of the evidence shows that black police officers treat black people no better than white police officers? What if white police officers treat black people better than black police officers on average?

Of course, I'm sure someone biased enough can invent an explanation for any contrary evidence. But the of the situation might be very different from the current propaganda.

Regardless of the policing data, the root cause is unarguably a fundamentally economic problem.

Poverty is synonymous with violence. Policing is synonymous with violence.

By turning a class problem (rich people stealing/rigging the system) into a racial issue (white people are bad and should feel bad) you're doing the bidding of the rich people that want to prevent revolutionary economic reform.

 _Edit: Flagged in 60 seconds. There is no way this comment violates the HN guidelines. If you disagree, just downvote, don 't abuse the flagging system._

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for your feedback. With the help from some people here the site has been updated with more info about each case including what has/hasn't been done in each situation.

Going forward, no video will be uploaded without first gathering this information and verifying the context of the video. Please say if you feel there is still information that needs to be added that can help.

<comment><USER12> Aren't you trying to act as a courtroom, though? The main issue I have with your site is that your fundamental premise involves a presumption of guilt. You declare this behavior "brutality" (which implies a forgone conclusion of injustice and the misuse of force) _before_ a fair system of investigation, testimony, factual analysis, and so on, can be performed.

I'm not saying these videos aren't showing an injustice and a misuse of force, I'm saying that making a fair conclusion is complicated and should be done by a complex process that you can't hope to do yourself. And if you simply aggregate videos of police using force and label them all as brutality, frankly you are abandoning the ideal of justice in the pursuit of it.

Your site should present these videos as acts that warrant investigation, not as a wall of shame for (assumed) guilty/bad cops (even though many of them are guilty/bad).

There is deep, systemic injustice in our society, and there are murders and brutalities taking place all too often, and this does demand action and attention. I applaud action to that effect and I honor that you are motivated by the pursuit of justice. But you need to recognize that it is a challenging task that requires a measure of elevated ethical discipline in order not to backfire or undermine itself. The principle of "innocent until proven guilty" is a core precept of a good justice system, but not one that your approach seems to embrace.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Here's a pretty good list I've been seeing passed around Reddit with ~20 incidents of police brutalizing peaceful protestors in the last couple days:

[https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/gu3s6j/poli...](https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/gu3s6j/police_shoots_protestor_for_no_reason/fsg94zy/)

The list is growing by the hour.

Cops in America need to learn very quickly that their power comes only from the consent of the people they police, or they will be made to understand that fact.

<comment><AUTHOR> That's the part I personally cannot wrap my head around with all of this. These people are the people they are paid to protect. The people who live in their own communities. Yet they are carrying out these acts like they're in a foreign country.

<comment><USER14> > Yet they are carrying out these acts like they're in a foreign country.

Which would make this better how exactly?

<comment><USER15> It's not better.

Foreign operations are carried out by a military, who define an enemy and set objectives to destroy them.

Policing is different. It's a domestic affair where the objectives are to protect citizens and improve public safety.

It gets very dangerous when police begin operating like the military, define the citizens they're suppose to protect as "the enemy", and then set objectives to destroy them.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thank you, you took the words in my head

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> Tangentially related: anybody have links for good op-sec guides for creating a site that might make dangerous people pissed off?

<comment><AUTHOR> Depends on the dangerous people you're talking about I suppose

<comment><USER17> Exactly. IIRC alphabet agencies operate many tor exit nodes.

<comment><USER16> Among a plethora of other tricks. To be able to evade state-level actors would be the ultimate goal. That may likely be impossible but it would be nice to explore if it could be done.

I have no intention of becoming an "enemy of the state", but I also never imagined I'd be living in this dystopian timeline.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> I've shared this before and do so here:

I recently found out about an app from the ACLU specifically for recording//reporting (abusive) police activities.

The app itself, at least the California version, has a section regarding one's rights and safety whilst filming police.

[https://www.aclu.org/issues/criminal-law-reform/reforming- po...](https://www.aclu.org/issues/criminal-law-reform/reforming-po..).

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACLU_Mobile_Justice](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACLU_Mobile_Justice)

</comment><comment><USER19> I have found an excellent resource [1] for data-driven policy that has been shown to reduce racism and abuse in police departments. I have written all of my local leaders who are up for election where they stand on each one of their ten points.

All of the requests on their website seem reasonable and it was really illuminating doing research on my local police force and seeing how few of them they've enacted.

[1] [https://www.joincampaignzero.org/](https://www.joincampaignzero.org/)

</comment><comment><USER20> Here are some more to add: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23371048](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23371048)

<comment><USER21> Have some more

[https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/gu3s6j/comm...](https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/gu3s6j/comment/fsg94zy)

<comment><AUTHOR> Thank you, I will go through them later tonight.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> To document with videos is valuable, but I think the site should provide as much context as possible, what I would wish for, show:

      * Date of incident
      * Short description of context
      * Primary source, or at least, where the video was found
      * Media coverage of incident
      * Updates on convictions/official investigations into the incident
      * Official statements / responses
      * linked videos (videos of the same incident, but with other view-angle)

Otherwise it will just be a collection of outrage, if you don't give real data to put things into context.

edit: formatting

<comment><AUTHOR> Brilliant, thank you for this. I will work on getting all of these added to the site ASAP.

</comment></comment><comment><USER23> This site is terrible. It is a zero-effort collection of videos around one theme. And by turning these videos into copy-pasta without promoting the original sources of the video they are obscuring the and making it more difficult to fix police brutality.

A much better website would have contact information on it. And it would cite the original people that took the videos. And they could have asked those original people basic facts, such as the exact location and time of the recording.

<comment><USER23> Found it.

Here is what quality reporting looks like

[https://www.theverge.com/2020/5/31/21276044/police- violence-...](https://www.theverge.com/2020/5/31/21276044/police-violence- protest-george-floyd)

Yes, people. Sometimes reporting takes effort, and professionals can do a better job than inexperienced people.

</comment></comment><comment><USER24> This has been tried. See [http://copwatch.com/](http://copwatch.com/)

</comment><comment><USER25> It would be cool to have a top ten worst police jurisdictions for brutality

<comment><AUTHOR> I like to think that this isn't a whole jurisdiction problem and more an individual one.

<comment><USER26> Statistics about racial profiling and systemic problems with hiding police misconduct shows something different.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> I wish the site contained more than just the video recordings and presented further information like time & date / location / background story / names / official police report / related news reports etc.

Right now I could simply dress up as police officer and stage such a video. I'm not at all saying this is happening, I'm just saying it'd be possible to do that. With fake news as well claims of things being fake news being very common these days, we should all be a bit more careful and thorough.

<comment><USER28> The site relies on that lack of contrasting data and authentication (at least, objectively it can be argued).

<comment><AUTHOR> Hi, I certainly don't want this to be the case and as such the site has been updated with a lot more information about each video. Still this may not be enough so if you think there is anything else that can be added please say and I will ensure that the website is updated.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER29> I know this is hard for some people to accept, but the police deal with the worst dregs of society every day so you don't have to. They get pissed on, stabbed, punched in the face, shot, and killed working for less than 1/4 of the pay of many software developers do. We bitch about JavaScript vs Golang while they have to wonder if the next person they pull over for a speeding ticket is going to pull a gun on them. They have no binary way of knowing who means them harm and who doesn't. It's an extremely delicate judgment call made in split seconds that often means the difference between life and death. In the meantime, how many murdered people's family members have you had to console in the past few weeks? How many rape victims have you had to listen from? How many dead bodies have you scraped off the pavement? How many suicides have you investigated? Nobody is in favor of excess force being applied to people, but I cannot support the over-the-top rhetoric about the by and large good people that work in the police force either.

<comment><USER30> > It's an extremely delicate judgment call made in split seconds that often > means the difference between life and death

How come cops in many other countries are so much better at making these judgement calls than in the US?

<comment><USER31> Are they? I prefer to ignore value comparisons not based on numbers.

<comment><USER32> German cops fired 85 bullets _total_ in 2011. Florida cops shot almost 200 bullets into a UPS truck, killing a hostage and bystander in 2019.

<comment><USER33> There were 2174 incidents of murder/manslaughter in Germany that year... given that context, "85 bullets _total_" sounds like a massive orgy of violence on the part of German LEOs. There were 6 times that many murders in the US that same year, manslaughter not included.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER34> I think also compiling a list of video and photos of the good police who are joining, supporting police - or protestors who are keeping police safe in certain circumstances - to counterbalance the abuse by reminding people of the humanity.

Edit to add for examples:

[https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/gu5pqj/a_veteran_prot...](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/gu5pqj/a_veteran_protesting_his_government_after/)

[https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/gtx9am/the_police_tak...](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/gtx9am/the_police_taking_a_knee_with_protesters_in_miami/)

[https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/gtzxn3/were_stronger_...](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/gtzxn3/were_stronger_together/)

[https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/gtu8tp/a_protester_an...](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/gtu8tp/a_protester_and_a_police_officer_today_in_fargo/)

[https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/gttacf/its_not_white_...](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/gttacf/its_not_white_vs_black_rich_vs_poor_police_vs/)

[https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/gtq55f/at_a_peaceful_...](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/gtq55f/at_a_peaceful_protest_in_fargo_nd/)

[https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/gu6rdi/police_support...](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/gu6rdi/police_supporting_reform_what_the_media_doesnt/)

[https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/gtr8un/a_conversation...](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/gtr8un/a_conversation_between_protester_police_chief_and/)

[https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/gu5lrf/its_not_black_...](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/gu5lrf/its_not_black_vs_white_people_it_is_everyone_vs/)

[https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/gu6dsz/police_kneelin...](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/gu6dsz/police_kneeling_with_peaceful_protesters_in_coral/)

[https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/gu4ptc/we_need_more_o...](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/gu4ptc/we_need_more_of_this_taken_yesterday_in_buffalo_ny/)

[https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/gtlla0/a_californian_...](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/gtlla0/a_californian_police_chief_taking_a_knee_during_a/)

[https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/gtynyd/genesee_county...](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/gtynyd/genesee_county_sheriff_high_fives_a_woman_as_he/)

[https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/gtxiq5/found_this_pic...](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/gtxiq5/found_this_pic_on_twitter_not_all_cops_or/)

[https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/gu60jr/protestors_and...](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/gu60jr/protestors_and_police_come_together_in_flint_mi/)

[https://www.reddit.com/r/UpliftingNews/comments/gtrjby/genes...](https://www.reddit.com/r/UpliftingNews/comments/gtrjby/genesee_county_sheriff_takes_off_his_helmet_sets/)

[https://twitter.com/ZachandMattShow/status/12672081705749381...](https://twitter.com/ZachandMattShow/status/1267208170574938120)

And some abuse..

[https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/gtsbs8/like_a_boss/](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/gtsbs8/like_a_boss/)

[https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/gtqpre/new_york_state...](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/gtqpre/new_york_state_senator_zellnor_myrie_was/)

[https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/gu1qgy/cop_in_full_ri...](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/gu1qgy/cop_in_full_riot_gear_pepper_sprays_shirtless/)

[https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/gu02su/a_child_after_...](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/gu02su/a_child_after_being_maced_by_a_police_officer/)

[https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/gu10qz/law_enforcemen...](https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/gu10qz/law_enforcement_fires_paint_projectile_at/)

Compilation video - [https://www.reddit.com/r/WayOfTheBern/comments/gtvcup/share_...](https://www.reddit.com/r/WayOfTheBern/comments/gtvcup/share_widely_this_is_a_police_state/)

[https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/gu5yru/us_s...](https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/gu5yru/us_security_forces_hunt_down_journalists_covering/)

[https://www.reddit.com/r/ThatsInsane/comments/gtvet8/rubber_...](https://www.reddit.com/r/ThatsInsane/comments/gtvet8/rubber_bullet_hit/)

[https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/gu2hdi/innocent_shopp...](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/gu2hdi/innocent_shopper_shot_with_rubber_bullet/)

[https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/gu629x/nurs...](https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/gu629x/nurse_working_at_the_medical_tent_treating_people/)

[https://twitter.com/chadloder/status/1267033010295042048](https://twitter.com/chadloder/status/1267033010295042048)

.... and on and on and on... There will be 1000s to 10,000s of events to catalogue.

<comment><USER35> Yeah, though you could also make a list of how long "good" police remained silent on brutality from their brothers in blue

<comment><USER36> Perfect, meet good. The two of you shouldn't be enemies.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER37> The Guardian tried this with "The Counted": [https://www.theguardian.com/us- news/series/counted-us-police...](https://www.theguardian.com/us- news/series/counted-us-police-killings)

<comment><USER38> The Counted is not necessarily police brutality as much as listing everyone killed by police in the US, along with a brief description. The Counted totally fascinates me. I like to close my eyes and pick some square at random and read the story there, which is always a brief tragedy, but not necessarily what I would call police brutality. Many surprises there, including a surprising number of cases involving machetes.

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> Ha. I have a similar type of domain name in my shopping cart...

I have another angle for this, which is we have to clearly identify a path where _legitimate_ policing can occur, but aims to end police misconduct systematically.

<comment><AUTHOR> I'm interested to hear more of your ideas around this

<comment><USER16>
      * Require police to be self-insured, backed by their pension plan
      * Refactor qualified immunity for police work (no more carte blanche)
      * Legalize all drugs (tax and regulate, treat abuse as a medical issue)
      * Legalize and (and regulate the hell out of it) sex work
      * National LEO database to prevent bad cops from moving one county over
      * National guidelines and certification of police behavior
        (a Geneva convention of sorts). No excuses of ignorance of the law

That's a quick brain dump on it. Just doing the pension thing would be a game changer and is not an insurmountable goal.

<comment><AUTHOR> Personally I agree with all of those points however I know there is a lot of passion on both sides of the argument for most of those points. Hopefully one day soon we will start to see meaningful change

<comment><USER16> Gotta start somewhere :-).

The goal would be to properly frame it and promote it.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER39> Thank you for this! Your site might be a good place to signal-boost potential solutions to the problem of police brutality as well. I stumbled across a Twitter thread earlier which has some interesting ideas: [https://mobile.twitter.com/samswey/status/118065570127173222...](https://mobile.twitter.com/samswey/status/1180655701271732224)

<comment><AUTHOR> Thank you for that. I will read through this at some point tonight.

</comment></comment><comment><USER40> The websites not loading, I assume because it's #1 on HN right now. If you want help with server costs maybe setup a fund me/patron?

<comment><AUTHOR> There are people I would much rather that money go to than me. I will upgrade the server now though

<comment><USER41> For sure. If there's any other kind of help you need, though, you should mention it. I'm sure there are a lot that would be happy to help. I think a lot of us are looking for an outlet for our (highly overlapping but not super widely available) skillset to contribute how we can.

<comment><AUTHOR> Just created a discord here: [https://discord.gg/5w2nz8](https://discord.gg/5w2nz8). Happy to get peoples help and expertise on there

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER42> "Police are by in large good people. The vast majority of them know not to kill black people."

"United Airlines pilots are by in large good people. The vast majority of them know not to crash the plane."

<comment><AUTHOR> The vast majority also do not drag people off their planes for not being white...

</comment></comment><comment><USER43> Police (1%) can never succeed without the support of Civilians (99%) [https://archive.vn/D3mWZ](https://archive.vn/D3mWZ)

</comment><comment><USER44> The brutality in those videos goes beyond what I thought possible. Driving through crowds, beating little girls, trampling on a protester with your horse... speechless.

I thank the internet for making me aware of this.

<comment><AUTHOR> It's really harrowing to see these things happening. I know that they go on around the world but it's always been easier to ignore but I feel like as citizens of a now connected world we can't let this brutality continue.

</comment></comment><comment><USER45> The site seems to be down. Will it do historical abuse as well?

<comment><AUTHOR> I think traffic might of killed it. I will upgrade the server it's running on tonight. In answer to your question, all videos on there will stay there for the rest of time. We cannot let this happen now but we certainly can't let it be forgotten either.

<comment><USER46> DevOps SRE, how can I help?

<comment><AUTHOR> Please join this discord: [https://discord.gg/9nA34c](https://discord.gg/9nA34c)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER47> How does the validation of the stories work ? I hope it will not end up as the next place to fuel unnecessary violence like in Toronto.

<comment><AUTHOR> Currently, I'm having to watch the videos and verify them personally. Not the way I want to spend my evenings but sadly something I feel I have to do.

<comment><USER48> You are a hero.

<comment><USER48> FWIW I'm happy to donate to you, or if you find a way to pay someone to do the sorting I'm happy to chip in for that as well.

<comment><USER49> Me too

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER40> Why was this post flagged? @Dang?

Edit: earlier this post linked to a data visualisation project, not a collection of videos.

</comment><comment><USER50> As always, you have to ask, _compared to what_? Are the majority of police actions brutality, or only a miniscule fraction? This is _the_ crucial question, and a site like this provides no insight at all. (or so I imagine, since site is down)

If you want to fan the flames, though, add a section for protesters savagely kicking unconscious victims in the head.

<comment><USER51> Just so I understand, how are the 2 related? You seem to suggest that the "protesters savagely kicking unconscious victims in the head" are criminals. I agree, they likely are. By those terms then all of the police officers kicking downed protesters are criminals as well. Why are their fellow officers not arresting them on the spot?

There is a very large difference between random protesters committing violent acts and government sanctioned organizations with the legal right to shoot and kill implementing a wide spread program of violence and brutality. If you cannot see the difference, then you are not looking. If an officer observes another officer committing a crime and does not intervene then that officer is corrupt. At each of these police brutality incidents there are often a number of officers observing and not intervening.

When the system designed to enforce the law routinely breaks it without punishment then the system is broken and needs to be rebuilt.

<comment><USER50> For starters, the rioters are already breaking the law at the point of police contact, and they know that they are. Secondly, the officers are typically in a dangerous situation, and have more pressing concerns.

If you find yourself in a riot, leave. Common sense and common decency, no?

<comment><USER51> So because the rioters are breaking the law it gives the police carte blanche to do the same? Amazing how cops in other western countries are able to enforce the law without killing thousands of citizens every year but ours cant.

Sorry the cops have more pressing concerns than obeying the law? Then they should not be police officers. A whole lot of cops seem to have a whole lot of other pressing concerns standing around watching George Floyd get murdered. A whole lot of cops seem to have a whole lot of other pressing concerns standing around watching Rodney King get beaten. There are hundreds of incidents of whole lot of cops seem to have a whole lot of other pressing concerns standing around watching their fellow officers assault prone or unresisting civilians.

Just so I understand, if you spent your whole life getting treated as a second class citizen and peaceful protest did not work, and voting did not work, and nothing changed, could you not see yourself getting a little tired of living a lesser life? Now imagine having kids and having to watch them live the same lesser life.

<comment><USER50> No, it does not. A policeman acting like one of these rioters--kicking an unconscious person in the head--should be charged with attempted murder. And in my opinion, never breathe free air again.

> if you spent your whole life getting treated as a second class citizen and > peaceful protest did not work, and voting did not work, and nothing changed, > could you not see yourself getting a little tired of living a lesser life?

That describes me pretty well. Nonetheless, I obey the law. And I certainly don't beat people, especially when they're unconscious.

<comment><USER52> Except that never happens. The accountability part. Police act up over and over and face no meaningful consequences, hence the rioting.

There's no question in the ability of the police to abuse the civilian population, we see it every day. Punch a police and see what happens, and then if they punch you again watch what happens.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER53> May I suggest that the site be on a CDN like Cloudflare for better availability? @h3cate

<comment><AUTHOR> I'll look into it and get it done, thanks.

</comment></comment><comment><USER54> Cocksec rascists must have flagged this

<comment><AUTHOR> People just have different views on different matters which is okay. Flagging a post you do not agree with is fine. Shooting a man pinned to the floor is not fine.

</comment></comment><comment><USER55> Y'all killed it

<comment><AUTHOR> Should be back up now!

</comment></comment><comment><USER49> the defense of police comments remind me of the defense of priests people.

<comment><AUTHOR> Did anybody really protect the priests?

I don't want to discuss that topic here as I am less able to rationally think when it comes to not only Christianity but religion as a whole.

</comment></comment><comment><USER56> What does This refer to, The website or police brutality?

</comment><comment><USER57> Instead of signal-boosting rotten cops, can we signal-boost the ones who arrest bad cops?

<comment><AUTHOR> A new page will be added to the site highlighting the good that police officers do on a daily basis.

</comment></comment><comment><USER58> not saying there is no value in this initiative, just a reminder, that a camera always hides more than it shows - unknown unnowns etc...

<comment><USER58> I dont know why this gets downvoted so much. Let me elaborate:

i have witnessed Police brutality first hand. Even here where we dont go through much of the authoritarian training americans are used to, i.e christian churches with heavy influence - here religion is merely a nostalgic thing.

I know also that even here victims of Police brutality basically have No Chance of retaliation.

That beeing said, a video that looks ugly does not necessarily mean the Police acted wrong.

Ok i bite, Link a Video and i will come up with a story that atleast explains the police behaviour, If not justifies it.

<comment><USER57> Here you go. Video of cop shooting a guy in the back as he ran away, then planting a gun on him. The officer didn't know the event was filmed, and filed a wholly false police report on the subject.

[https://youtu.be/XKQqgVlk0NQ](https://youtu.be/XKQqgVlk0NQ)

<comment><USER58> My apologies, the USA seem to be more rotten than i thought they would be...my original statement was also to broad, i cannoz defend that video similarilly to how i cannot defend every Police Action in russia or china.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER59> Is the issue with police brutality a lack of evidence?

Not trolling, legitimately asking this. It feels like every year some viral video comes out where police do something horrible, it feels like little progress has been made on the issue. Is it simply a visibility problem?

<comment><AUTHOR> The way I see it, a viral video pops up and there's outrage then two weeks later we're onto the next outrage. I am guilty of this myself and this is why I think it is important to collect this so it isn't forgotten.

<comment><USER60> > _I am guilty of this myself_

Aren't you the wrong person to catalogue this stuff then?

<comment><AUTHOR> Maybe, I never said that I was the right person and this is certainly something I don't see myself doing for the rest of my life. I would however like to give the tools to those who are the right people.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER28> This would be objectively valuable if it was paired with a collection of brutality against police (curated by equally well motivated people). There are a massive number of both citizens and police in this country. Large numbers yield a significant artifact of outliers.

Holding police to a higher standard makes sense. But with very large numbers, a high standard still requires expectation of a significant amount of outliers.

<comment><AUTHOR> I would be more than happy to send you the code for the site if you wish to set this up. Personally I feel like police generally do a good job of handling cases of brutality against them.

</comment></comment><comment><USER61> Something very similar to the Floyd case that wasn't too widely reported; probably a good one to add (assuming it's not already there; I'm having trouble accessing the site): [https://www.dallasnews.com/news/investigations/2019/07/31/yo...](https://www.dallasnews.com/news/investigations/2019/07/31/you- re-gonna-kill-me-dallas-police-body-cam-footage-reveals-the-final-minutes-of- tony-timpa-s-life/)

Edit: Why was this down-voted? And why was the post itself flagged?

<comment><AUTHOR> Thank you, I will take a look and add it

</comment></comment><comment><USER62> The sad thing is, there are good jurisdictions (they may have their issues, but generally fair) around, yet local activists will use issue X in city Y as an excuse to blame their own local PD for some unrelated issue.

This is happening in Santa Cruz right now where local homeless "advocates" (more about themselves) are attempting to co-opt a protest to blaming SCPD on perceived slights regarding homeless issues. This is a normal tactic for this group.

<comment><USER63> It would be useful to put together a taxonomy of error modes that a social issue can have when it becomes famous. For example, accusing the victim of faking it ("crisis actors"), accusing protestors of overreacting ("thugs"), claiming that protestors have foreign elements making things worse ("auslander thugs"), and of course claiming that nothing happened to begin with, or the evidence for the claim was faked. No doubt this is a very long list, limited only by human rhetorical ingenuity.

<comment><USER64> Some claims _are_ fake, though. Your strategy for distinguishing between true and false claims can't just be "oh I've identified that as an error mode".

<comment><USER62> Here is a photo. Food Not Bombs is a broader organization, but Keith McHenry, a founder of FNB, will do everything to promote his agenda atop of what is popular -

[https://scontent- lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65...](https://scontent- lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/101659755_10222370868330582_9004543148180897792_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_sid=ca434c&efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&_nc_ohc=QhBaGiPGmeQAX8IMg1T&_nc_ht=scontent- lax3-1.xx&_nc_tp=14&oh=8fec22aadfacc4068839fa5f5e417421&oe=5EF8F30C)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER65> Police brutality is a Bad Thing. There is also much lower hanging fruit in terms of saving lives and improving the world. About 1,000 people die in the US each year through encounters with the police. Over 400,000 people die in Africa each year from Malaria and we have very effective tools for combating it[1]. Police brutality is a big issue but the current media attention doesn't make "boring" causes less important or deadly.

[1]: [https://www.givewell.org/charities/top- charities](https://www.givewell.org/charities/top-charities)

<comment><USER66> Otherwise known as the "but kids are starving in Africa" rhetorical fallacy.

<comment><USER67> Well, if you want to focus on police abuse, journalists and opposition leaders are routinely tortured and killed by security forces in Africa. No one gives a shit.

You might say, well, that particular case happened in <whatever city where that particular case happened>, so people there are concerned. Of course, and that's fine. I'm sure there are things they can reform in that police department. But how does that explain the support protests around the world?

It's a big political manipulation.

<comment><USER66> > It's a big political manipulation.

Lemme guess, Soros?

<comment><USER67> I don't know, do you have any information on this?

I'm particularly interested in who funded and organized the media operations in countries like Germany or the UK.

We do know that Soros does that, but he's not the only one, so we can't possibly blame him for every single occurrence.

<comment><USER66> I don't really care. I sat down with protesters myself in Oakland, and while we were sitting, cops fired into the crowd.

I don't think you can blame Soros or Murdoch for that. That crime is in someone in the cop's chain of command - as well as each officer that decided not to call in sick yesterday.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER68> Genuine unprovoked and unnecessary police brutality incidents are incredibly rare (relative to all police interactions) and hardly an epidemic. When someone is breaking the law and resisting arrest the police have no choice but to be violent with the resistor. Unfortunately these incidents often get categorized as "police brutality" when they're really just a necessary use of force.

More broadly, the entire narrative of police brutality and killings of minorities is basically nonsense. When controlling for violent encounters with police and crimes committed, blacks (armed and unarmed) are actually less likely to be killed by police than whites.

Sites like this and an irresponsible media simply exaggerate the issue and needlessly inflame tensions without providing proper and necessary context.

<comment><USER52> "Don't believe your lying eyes."

[https://lawandcrime.com/crazy/video-shows-officer-kicking- wo...](https://lawandcrime.com/crazy/video-shows-officer-kicking-woman-who- was-sitting-on-ground-and-covering-her-face/)

<comment><USER68> That video is a 5 second long anecdote. Regardless, the woman was probably told to move and was refusing. When you disobey riot police in a riot situation that's what happens and I absolutely side with the police.

Data literally supports what I'm saying. A distorting narrative is what's driving all the recent calls to action and solidarity. People are being lied to and misled, either that or they are just using the narrative to push their own agendas.

<comment><USER69> The outrage started not because of the video that was undisputable evidence of police violence, it started because the police did not immediately arrest the officers who committed and helped with the murder of a person.

Had Minneapolis have to burn to the ground, so that they finally arrest the murderer policeman?</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: How to improve typing? - <AUTHOR> As a software developer who spends significant time in front of my keyboard, I'm acutely aware that both my typing accuracy and speed could improve. Beyond mindfully trying to kick old habits, any recommendations or approaches I should take to become a better typist? <comment><USER2> Buy better keyboard/mechanical keyboard and learn touch typing from site like these

[https://thetypingcat.com](https://thetypingcat.com) [https://www.typingclub.com](https://www.typingclub.com)

And just keep typing so you gain the muscle memory of it.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for the links, those look promising. After some searching I often saw TypeRacer ([https://play.typeracer.com](https://play.typeracer.com)) recommended also. I tried a few other typing tutors but found that few emphasize symbols like {}*&#$ that I use frequently and are responsible for most of my mistakes.</comment></comment>


Millennials Will Get Sick and Die Faster Than the Previous Generation - <AUTHOR> https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/evj98k/millennials-will-get-sick-and-die-faster-than-the-previous-generation <comment><USER2> Horribly written article. Is this what passes as English these days?

<comment><USER3> Could have been rewritten as a tweet "Study tells us status quo is untenable"

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> _insert generic gen z comment about how I want to die and I hope this trend continues_</comment>


Channel 37 - <AUTHOR> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Channel_37

<comment><USER2> Cool; all the pranksters of West Virginia and New Mexico please take note.</comment>


A practical guide to having a remote company - <AUTHOR> https://medium.com/p/the-practical-guide-to-having-a-remote-company-aa87fd756d7e <comment><USER2> > How to keep talented people happy: Sincere, prompt, frequent, praise

When I had an office job, I would have dismissed this. Now that I'm working remotely, I find I personally need praise more often than in-person gigs. It's harder to know how people feel about me and my work when I'm not there and not going to lunch with them. Critical feedback triggers larger fears about how I'm doing when received remotely, especially if it's text and not voice or video.

<comment><AUTHOR> Totally. This is my experience as well. There are many cues we use in person to signal satisfaction or criticism which don't readily translate to a remote environment, so it's really important to be conscious about properly communicating them remotely. It's worth noting that praise from peers is also extremely valuable, so it's not just a managerial thing.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> Nice general guide but fails to go in depth of what I consider the hardest issue for a smaller "virtual" company. International payment mechanics, International Labor laws & International Taxes.

<comment><USER4> This exactly. This guide is more a "why go remote" than a "how to".

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> A significant takeaway from this nice post is that being positive and kind - toward colleagues, customers, and people in general - keeps morale higher, which often results in better company results.

Some places I have worked have succumbed to mob behaviors, cliques of badly behaving (mostly men), or occasionally bro-coders that really put a bad mood on the company. I can't say how much it affected other employees, but it certainly reduced my enthusiasm and output.

And as with accepted leadership advice, praise many times more than you admonish; avoid admonishing as much as possible. Dale Carnegie gave some good advice on this.</comment>


A Desktop for the web - <AUTHOR>

Hello everyone,
After lots of month of work we are very proud and  excited to share with everyone the preview of Ahomé Desk: our web desktop platform.  This is the beginning of an incredible journey for our small start up and we welcome you all to help us by giving some feedback and helping us build a better web.
As this is a preview release please expect some bugs. We hope the application is still good enough to show where we are heading with the project.
The main idea behind the Ahomé Desk can be found in our blog: http://www.ahome-it.com/newage/
To play around with the desktop please visit :
http://desk.ahome-it.com
Cheers <comment><USER2> Feedback - [http://desk.ahome-it.com](http://desk.ahome-it.com)

      * The white text in the upper right is a bit hard to read, due to the different contrast in parts of the background.  One idea is to use a semi-transparent background color to provide more / equaler contrast.

      * Your logo doesn't take me to your main site (ahome-it.com), nor is there any way else to get there from this page.

      * Your copyright text has a link to nowhere.  Remove it, or show me some more info.

      * It'd be nice to demo without creating an account...

I had some other thoughts on your main site, and haven't played around with the demo yet. I hope to be able to tomorrow, but in the event that I can't- best of luck!

Just btw- no news is good news. I really like the layout and background image of your demo page, and you did many things right with your main site. Since a pat on the back is less helpful than constructive criticism, unless you did something exceptionally well I usually don't mention the good things.

<comment><AUTHOR> * You can demo without creating an account. In fact creating accounts is not yet open. * Thx for the feedbacks. Will def help for the next release. Thx.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> It's cool. I think it's implemented with ExtJS.

But please, please no bootstrap 2 on the home page :(

I'm really fed up with that blue BS2 button. It's everywhere. I fully understand, you're creating a MVP here so you shouldn't waste time with other things. But at least, you can download a BS3 theme [here]([http://bootswatch.com/](http://bootswatch.com/)) instead of a classic bootstrap theme. Therefore, it would be kind of different than other sites.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thx. Glad you like. The best is to come yet :)

Yes it s implemented with Ext JS. But not in JavaScript. We wanted to write Ext JS at scale so we wrote a GWT wrapper for Ext JS ([http://opensource.ahome-it.com/#ext4j](http://opensource.ahome- it.com/#ext4j)). It s free and opensource and might help you aswell.

Agreed with that bootstrap button :) We will come up with something better in the next iteration. Thx and keep the feedback coming :)

Cheers

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Under Firefox, at 1024x: [http://desk.ahome-it.com](http://desk.ahome-it.com)

\- an alert box pops up with "undefined, " then nothing loads \- after refresh, the landing shows, with the Login box covering the welcome text that lets me know what this is

Didn't sign up, for those two reasons.

Isn't this a "Show HN" post?

<comment><AUTHOR> You dont need to sign up to check the demo. Simply click on the login button. In fact registration is not yet open. Thx we will check what s wrong on FF.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> > _" Because the Ahomé Desk Client is a pure HTML5/JS/CSS solution, it is > totally transparent to any server runtime. From Java to Ruby on Rails, from > PHP to .NET our client can run everywhere. "_

How will the client be licensed?

<comment><AUTHOR> Will cost around 100$/month with sources.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> Your logo / text is behind the login box, which is unfortunate. We can't read it and it's not very pretty. :(

<comment><AUTHOR> Can you share your screen resolution ? We will definetly improve the login screen in the next release. We hope that did nt prevent you from entering the desktop though. Cheers :)</comment></comment>


Confronting the Credibility Gap for Crewed Exploration of Mars - <AUTHOR> http://caseyexaustralia.blogspot.com/2016/09/mars-society-talk-confronting.html <comment><USER2> Landing is really hard. Not enough atmosphere for aerobraking, and too far from home to have enough fuel for a powered landing. It's a fuel problem.

There's the expensive approach. Send multiple unmanned tanker ships into Mars orbit and have them rendezvous into an orbital supply depot. Send landing tanker ship to rendezvous with them and refuel with enough fuel for a powered landing. Landing ship descends. Repeat to build up fuel reserve on Mars surface. Manned ship then docks with orbital supply depot and crew switches to lander. Lander descends, lands near fuel reserve, and refuels for ascent.

Ascent is to Mars orbit and docking with the orbital supply depot. Crew switches back to long-haul ship, refuels it, and goes back to Earth.

<comment><USER3> How about we harpoon Mars and pull down one end of a space elevator?

<comment><USER4> The biggest problem with a space elevator on Mars is that the orbit of one of its moons is closer than the minimum height of a space elevator to be stable. Eventually the elevator cable will get hit.

<comment><USER5> Hang the cable from the moon and let the end trail?

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> If you'd prefer to watch it, Casey's talk is available on Youtube: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0a7eR8Wi4Y](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0a7eR8Wi4Y)

</comment><comment><USER7> There's a very enjoyable discussion in the comment section with my (brilliant) former colleague Max Fagin. He points out that Casey's first draft of this post neglects the curvature of Mars, and when you account for it Casey's model predicts the craft punching out the other side of the atmosphere.

<comment><USER8> Can't see those comments. Were they deleted?

<comment><USER9> They're on the ITS post.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> Radiation is a huge problem. Both en route and on Mars.

A lot of these problems beg the question. Is Mars really the best target? Sure it's close but there are moons around Saturn that are interesting as well. Titan for example. Sure it's cold but it has a lot of atmosphere. Presumably landing would be easier. If we could learn to live underwater we could possibly visit Ganymede or Europa.

<comment> semi-extrinsic Radiation, as you mention, is a very big problem which is independent of destination.

Human psychology is another, perhaps even bigger problem, also independent of destination. We've had various experiments with prolonged isolation, but none where the subjects _know_ that they're never coming back to Earth. I'd say psychology has a >50% chance of wrecking the first manned missions to other planets/moons, unless we send huge ships with hundreds of people.

In the Red Mars trilogy by Kim Stanley Robinson, the author has come to the very astute observation that

a) no perfectly rational, mentally healthy human would volunteer for such a mission

b) there will necessarily be extensive psychological screening to ensure we only send rational people

thus c) the people who will be selected are likely to be non-rational actors very good at concealing their non-rationality from psychologists. Also known as people with psychopathic tendencies.

<comment><USER10> > _Human psychology is another, perhaps even bigger problem, also independent > of destination. We 've had various experiments with prolonged isolation, but > none where the subjects know that they're never coming back to Earth._

Who said they're never coming back to Earth?

> _no perfectly rational, mentally healthy human would volunteer for such a > mission_

That's an easy problem to solve, as there are no "perfectly rational" and/or absolutely "mentally healthy humans", and have never been anyway.

And people can still be quite rational and mentally healthy and yet cherish the possibility to take such a mission, even if there's a possibility to die, etc.

In fact, it's needs no more troubled people than those that go to the army and are OK to be sent to war, or people that dive and explore the oceans, etc etc.

<comment> semi-extrinsic How are they going to come back? All realistic plans I've seen are for one-way trips.

The thought of dying isn't the inherently problematic part, but rather the extreme isolation. People who go to war are there for only some months and have plans for going home, back to friends and family. People who dive and explore the oceans are isolated for a few days at worst; perhaps months in a nuclear sub, but there you have already a pretty large crew around you. Compared to decades spent isolated with a handful of people, and no return ticket to the rest of humanity, those are nothing.

<comment><USER10> > _How are they going to come back? All realistic plans I 've seen are for > one-way trips._

Huh?

" _The first crewed Mars mission would be expected to have approximately 12 people, with the primary goal to "build out and troubleshoot the propellant plant and Mars Base Alpha power system" as well as a" rudimentary base." In the event of an emergency, the spaceship would be able to return to Earth without having to wait a full 26 months for the next synodic period._"

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interplanetary_Transport_Syste...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interplanetary_Transport_System#Mars_early_missions)

<comment><USER9> Yep. The spaceship has to come back at the very least.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> I had the pleasure of attending high school with Casey. He (and his brother as well, who i worked under as a doctor) are both capital G geniuses. Anyone wanting to be highly informed on interesting topics like the hyperloop (with his potential biases due to involvement with Hyperloop one), terraforming, space travel or other similar things would do well to follow him on quora.

<comment><USER9> That's too kind! Say hi on fb some day.

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> ITS is conspicuously absent in this post but has been discussed by the same author in another post.

[http://caseyexaustralia.blogspot.com.au/2016/09/spacex- mars-...](http://caseyexaustralia.blogspot.com.au/2016/09/spacex-mars-plan- analysis.html)

</comment><comment> james-watson What gets forgotten here, and something that I keep bringing up, is the lack of a Martian magnetosphere. This means long term human settlements have to be artificially shielded.

This means living underground, which defeats the point of going to Mars in my opinion. Elon mentioned using a local magnetosphere generator, which is one of those ideas that is theoretically possible but whose practicality seems questionable. How powerful a magnetosphere generator is required to deflect ionizing radiation? How much power generation capacity will a Martian colony have to spare? Will this require a Fusion reactor?

The only hope I have for Martian settlement is that Musk and his engineers are some of the most audacious and brilliant people on the planet. I will never bet against their success, and I wish them the best of luck.

I have been a space exploration fan since as long as I can remember, I just worry that humans have a tendency to focus on the wrong goals when ideals and emotion cloud our judgement (e.g. the Space Shuttle).

<comment><USER13> Mars has an iron core; it's just not molten which prevents it from being ferromagnetic.

I have three questions:

1\. Is it merely a question of mass? That is, if Mars were larger would the increased gravity increase pressure at the core and keep it molten?

2\. If it IS merely a question of mass, is there any way to add mass to Mars which doesn't disturb its orbit? Because if you could, then you simultaneously solve both the problem of low gravity AND lack of magnetosphere, which together solve the problem of maintaining atmosphere. Basically the whole planet becomes extremely Earth-like

3\. If increased mass wouldn't necessarily wreck its orbit, could something be done to "steer" asteroids from the Main Belt into collision courses with Mars?

I really don't know anything about orbital mechanics so maybe there's an obvious flaw in this (aside from the energy required to reroute that many asteroids).

<comment><USER14> The amount of energy required to lower the orbits of enough asteroids (e.g. 20% of Mars total mass) is probably enough to melt a significant portion of Mars. Unfortunately, collisions would mostly heat up the surface, not the core. Even if you could precisely deorbit enough asteroids to hit Mars, the results of the bombardment would probably take a long time to settle.

Planetary-scale engineering is not only hard, it's inevitably slow.

I think cleaning up the atmosphere of Venus by spreading CO2-eating anaerobic air-suspended algae is more realistic, and the results would likely be nicer.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> The document linked at the end of the talk currently contains summary regarding the radiation problem on the way to Mars.

I've heard of the following approach. The spacecraft generates a magnetic field which spreads around it in flight, having some substantial size (order of kilometers). Relatively small amounts of matter (some gas) are constantly emitted from spacecraft, get ionized and trapped in the magnetic field. Such a low density thick "cushion" of ions makes the radiation shielding.

I'd like to learn more about effectiveness of such an approach.

<comment><USER16> You really want to be piling some dirt on top of your shelters for pressure containment reasons anyways.

<comment><USER15> That idea was for travel time, not when the spacecraft is already landed on Mars and the crew want protection on the surface. There, dirt will help, but in flight there is nowhere to get it from.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> Why Mars though? Why not build a lunar base on the moon? Maybe even a hotel on the moon, I'm sure people will enjoy watching earth from the moon.

I just fail to see this obsession with Mars. We don't even have manned landing on Mars and we are already having questionable stuff like "Mars One"

And finally (one for the conspiracists): nearly 50 years ago we landed on the moon without any of the technology we have today. Why hasn't there been any strides? Shouldn't it be cheaper to go to the Moon vs Mars? Shouldn't it be possible to colonize Moon more easily and faster than Mars?

<comment><USER18> I think part of it is that mars has an atmosphere

<comment><USER5> An atmosphere that provides none of the benefits of appropriate pressure, temperature and gas mix but all of the challenges of weather and airborne dust.

<comment><USER19> The martian atmosphere does have the benefit of having created much less abrasive dust over the years. Moon dust causes much more wear to moving parts. Mars also has accessible carbon, which the moon does not. The martian atmosphere can supply plants with the CO2 they need, enabling agriculture.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> Is a no-return mission something worth considering, on a purely technical & logistical level? Has anyone seen a really good analysis of this?

My sense is that the social, political, and psychological barriers could be overcome for such a thing.

</comment><comment><USER21>
      "Do you realise the astronauts
       will run out of nitrogen on day
       59 and die?"

      So Mars One isn't really funny, it
      has probably set back the credibility
      of the movement by a decade.

I realize it's not meant to be a truly quantifiable statement, but I'm always curious why people regard incidents like this as producing serious damage to progress.

There are definitely crucial moments in political science, when an absurd gaff completely botches a carefully crafted image, completely imploding the efforts of hundreds of people, and sinking an entire team permanently. Cringey things that seem to matter to the echo chamber of a 24 hour news cycle.

But I don't feel like hard science works that way. When it comes to real engineering feats, if one company tries to trade on faulty calculations, and their charade is laid bare, the smoke and mirrors disappear only to reveal the same bald truth that had always been there from the start: hard problems defy shenanigans.

A political failure doesn't deflate an engineering problem. Not in the same way it deflates a PR campaign. If the hard science was not respected, then there was no investment in a decade of progress to begin with.

So, these swindlers then maybe blew a decade of real funding, only to burn their investors with bogus project plans and proposals, ripping off charity and fomenting skepticism and suspicion? I think skepticism in this sphere is actually healthy, and separates the children from the adults.

Waste is a bad thing, and maybe real money disappears, but maybe that kind money came from the kinds of people who might have just as soon blown their cash on personal assistants, vacations and clothes. Clearly such investors were not "buying science," or they'd have known better.

So, then the only thing left is that maybe there's the premise that admirers of the charade would not have loitered on the sidelines, simply yearning to lend their support to the parlour trick they were true believers in. That they would have stepped up to the task, had they known progress was stalled. I don't buy that.

No matter what, I don't think there has even been a decade of effort spent on crewing a mission to Mars. It's all been so much conjecture. It's never seemed to be an easier idea than an underground moon base, and no one seems to be giving lunar round-trips or installations much more consideration than mars.

Space shuttle accidents and launchpad explosions cast the true hazards in a much more severe relief, but knowing that people are even trying and failing feels like much more significant progress than a lot of talk and faulty plans.

So was there really any "damage" done by some of these PR goof ups?

</comment><comment><USER22> "And then you have the EM/reactionless drive, which is less efficient than a Hall effect thruster, and also impossible."

I could sense this was coming, and I stopped reading here.

<comment><USER9> Sorry to come across as grumpy. It wasn't really the venue or topic to argue about exotic propulsion. There are many excellent resources online explaining why EM cavities are reactionless. You can write down the Poynting vector and then use Green's theorem, it's a neat result. With dire consequences for wish- powered spacecraft. -C

<comment> james-watson Don't be sorry. We need scientists to be skeptics when it comes to absurd assertions which violate the most fundamental principles of physics.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

<comment><USER22> There's actually a difference between being skeptical and calling this thing -- with peer-reviewed research[0] -- "wish-powered".

[0] [http://arc.aiaa.org/doi/10.2514/1.B36120](http://arc.aiaa.org/doi/10.2514/1.B36120)</comment></comment></comment></comment>


You can be a web designer and not know HTML/CSS? - <AUTHOR> http://37signals.com/svn/posts/2534-the-idea-that-you-could-make-a-website-and

<comment><USER2> I believe this to be a very serious issue. Having worked with both designers who not only understand HTML/CSS but actually build their OWN designs and designers who don't have a clue about how websites are build I can tell the difference is huge. I believe the problem is not just whether designs can or cannot be build, I believe it's more about if designs can be build within an estimated timeframe and budget. Designers who don't understand how websites are build seem to come up with monstrosities of designs that never can be build within budgets and timeframes. Sure, the designs look good. As a poster or a flyer but we're building websites here... Designers who do not understand how websites are build seem to design every single website as a massive bitmap. I've had to build 5 megabyte home pages simply because a designer didn't understand the medium. The client wasn't very happy when they where slapped with a massive bill at the end of each month because of the amount of bandwidth the site was using. Don't get me started on gradients and the fact that a browser can have different sizes or the fact that a design needs to be "pixel perfect" (which seems to be impossible to understand for some designers).

Being a "web designer" and not knowing HTML/CSS is just plain stupid. How can you work in this industry? Go work in print where you belong with the rest of the fossils.

</comment><comment><USER3> I don't know about "must" know html/css, but to get beyond a certain level of competency in designing web pages, to be able to make designs that are easily transferable to code, a knowledge of html/css will come into play.

I've worked with designers with and without this knowledge before, as well as designers familiar with css, but not html, and I can say that working with designers that knew html/css is far easier. Much less back and forth. Also, the ones without the knowledge get annoyed when told their designs don't translate well to code.

HTML/CSS does not take that much effort to learn. Just put in the effort and at least pick up the basics. Read a book on it. You don't need to know the ins and outs, but knowing the basics will help you design sites. And maybe you will find it interesting, and learn all the nitty gritty too. It will make you a better web designer.

</comment><comment><USER4> I'm guilty of ridiculous analogies, but some of these are just beyond making sense.

The one that annoyed me the most here that I saw (twice) was the parallel between layers taking you down to understanding TCP/IP and socket programming. I'm quite certain I'm not the only person who's ever designed a (fairly rich) web site that does not in any way use networks. An attempt at such an analogy will only show your own lack of understanding of the layers.

I've had web designers who do great design and UX work and would deliver it to me in a basic HTML format with at least basic CSS that I could apply in the product. These were successful designers that enabled the team to build high quality products.

If I'm going to implement a web design I received in .psd format, you might as well just come over and describe what you're envisioning. You are simply "an idea guy" (though hopefully with really good ideas that I couldn't've thought of myself) at that point and photoshop is a tool you use to communicate that idea. If you work in a sufficiently large organization, that's probably just fine.

I communicate a lot of my ideas in .org when I can. Most of the time, my ideas come out in .py, .c, .cc, .erlang, .java, .js, .html, .sass, or whatever else feels like a fit.

The fewer people you have between the problem and the solution, the faster things move.

</comment><comment><USER5> The biggest difference I find is that the designer who doesn't understand the guts of layout ends up with a site that is literally inflexible: it doesn't resize well and is really hard to modify later. The general outdated-ness of many corporate sites can be tracked to the difficulty of getting a flexible layout in place that lets you add a new item to the site without a total redesign.

</comment><comment><USER6> If you are talking about a web designer, then I don't think it's _necessary_ to know HTML/CSS, just good UI design, since they can create their designs in photoshop.

It's then the job of a web developer to convert that design to something a computer can display.

Sometimes people do both, and that's fine, although sometimes the people who know HTML/CSS can't design their way out of a paper bag. I'm one of them.

<comment><USER7> Yes, but without a general knowledge of HTML/CSS you won't know what is possible and what isn't possible in your design.

So yes, you may design some amazing layout in photoshop with crazy features and what not, but it simply may not be doable from a coding perspective.

<comment><USER8> I've never seen a layout that's proven to be impossible to code (and my designer partner has thrown some pretty ludicrous ones at me.) Can you give an example?

<comment><USER9> Make it look like a winamp skin from the late 90's -- but a round one, not rectangular -- and I want to be able to see the desktop behind it. Something like one of these: [http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_GGYg1kts8gE/S0lGIjFiOPI/AAAAAAAAA7...](http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_GGYg1kts8gE/S0lGIjFiOPI/AAAAAAAAA7A/P5c-2CSq1uQ/s400/Skin+Winamp+software+download+gratis+free.jpg)

<comment><USER6> Impossible currently because browsers themselves don't support that. However if they did, I don't see how this is different from having a transparent background.

<comment><USER8> In fact, there is a type of "browser" that _does_ support this feature already: _desktop widget engines_ , i.e. Windows Sidebar, OSX Dashboard, et al.

Now, of course, these "browsers" don't support most of the _other_ features that browsers usually _do_ support (for example, navigation), but if you want to make a little, oddly-shaped gadget using HTML+JS, they're just right.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> A web designer that doesn't know HTML/CSS is fine.

A web developer that knows HTML/CSS and can use a designer's mockup is fine.

The manager of those two parties that doesn't have experience in both can be troublesome.

</comment><comment><USER11> Ok, some thoughts after reading through some of the comments both here and on the original article.

1) If you are putting words onto a website, you are not designing anything. You are publishing content. That content can be a story, a comment, an ad, etc. You are not designing or building a site. You are not a web designer nor a developer.

2) If you have received a graphic representation of a site (say from a graphic designer) and are implementing that design into a functioning page using wysiwyg-ish tools that do not require you to know how the underlying html & css technologies, you are building a site. Despite the use of tools, the end result is a page that works in at least one browser. You are the base-level web developer. However, you will _never_ work for me until you learn html, css, and probably javascript too.

3) If you are only a graphic designer and you are pushing pixels to create a site layout, you are nominally a web designer. It is permissible for a pixel- pusher to do nothing _but_ design, but unless you have some moderate level of actual coding you are doing a disservice to yourself and your coworkers. One of my biggest continuing gripes over the years is being given visual layouts that look interesting, but are nearly impossible to implement cleanly. A related issue is that graphic designers who never actually build sites nearly always leave major gaps in the UX of their designs. They don't think through every aspect of their design (what are the hover states, what should it look like when the mouse is here or here, etc). Essentially, if you are _only_ a graphic designer you will not work for me unless you have some actual _developer_ experience.

In the end, you can get a spectrum from #2-#3. I am a web developer who has been doing this for something like 10 years. I have moderate photoshop skills and have created my own designs before. But I'm only adequate at design.

Other people I have worked with are primarily graphic designers that are adequate at developing. They make amazing looking designs that sometimes have a few UX problems. However, when you put that kind of person with a developer like me, you can hit a nice sweet spot where we understand enough of each other's worlds that we can really get some shit done.

Finally, my tweet from a few weeks ago about this very problem, <http://twitter.com/geuis/status/22554072991>

<comment><USER12> I am constantly astonished at the amount of people who call themselves "web designers" and yet do nothing but paint pictures in Photoshop and couldn't even attempt a basic implementation in HTML/CSS. This seems to be widely accepted as standard in the industry and yet strikes me as irrational as calling yourself a painter and yet only being able to describe in prose what the picture should look like, never having bothered to learn how to actually paint or understand the medium.

An artist can only excel when they not only understand but learn to embrace and utilize the uniqueness and quirks of the medium they work in.

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> I would actually take this argument even further and add an understanding of good UX with a sprinkle of business knowledge. Without the UX, a designer has no basis on what works for each particular type of user, and without a basic understanding of business, the designer will lack the understanding of what and why they're actually designing the thing they're designing.

</comment><comment><USER14> It's not strictly necessary to know HTML/CSS, but I can't see how you could be a web designer and not _want_ to learn. Back in the day when all I could do was Photoshop and InDesign, I'd constantly think, "I wish I could code this up myself."

</comment><comment><USER15> Sure you can, you can also be a writer and not know what punctuation is. In fact that would explain a few things around the web.

oh wait, you meant _a good web designer_ ...

<comment><USER16> Actually, I would argue against both points. A writer must know punctuation... good or bad. If they don't know what punctuation is, they can't complete a story, book, article or otherwise. Similarly, and by definition, a web designer must know basic html and css to design for the web. Otherwise, they're just a designer (or, if they want to get tricky with it, designer for web projects).

<comment><USER17> A writer can complete a comment like this without punctuation and its not too hard to read but I agree with you that it needs some commas

<comment><AUTHOR> That's not a writer. And watch out making such a statement to a writer.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Ms+phd - <AUTHOR> I would like to do masters+phd .I heard that we can do masters +phd. So that  we can get funding no need of paying fee. Can someone suggest me universities where i get masters +phd. <comment><USER2> Most universities have a masters and PhD program.

You must have an idea of which field you want to study before anyone can reasonably suggest a university.</comment>


Examining the Remnants of a Small DDoS Attack - <AUTHOR> https://chrxs.net/articles/2016/12/03/ddos-examination/ <comment><USER2> I really like this postmortem RCA! The author has done an excellent job walking us through his thought process and explaining the discoveries.

One thing I'd add is putting HAProxy with stick-tables rules in front of the web server (even Apache) as a measure to protect against this form of DDoS attack.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks! It was a very odd thing to have happen to such a small website so I was curious to learn what I could from it. I still want to dig deeper with the compromised hosts and see if there is some way to determine anything identifying about the worm or botnet itself.</comment></comment>


Git 2.8.0 released - <AUTHOR> https://lkml.org/lkml/2016/3/28/436 <comment><USER2> One of the relatively cryptic parts of the release notes is:

        * Update the untracked cache subsystem and change its primary UI from
          "git update-index" to "git config".

This is a feature we worked on, it means that you can do this:

        $ sudo git config --system core.untrackedCache true

And have [core] untrackedCache = true written to /etc/gitconfig. This'll speed up "git status" and similar index operations significantly.

I've seen "git status" times go from ~400ms to ~200ms and from ~140ms to ~60ms simply by setting this.

It could be set via "git update-index" in previous Git versions on a per-repo basis, but not on a system-wide basis, this makes it easier to e.g. puppetize it.

<comment><USER3> Can you explain more about this feature? If it is such an improvement, why would it not be enabled by default - are there any drawbacks to enabling it?

<comment><USER4> Because it relies on filesystem changing directory's mtime every time a file/dir is added or deleted in that directory. Not every filesystem supports that.

<comment><USER5> Can't git just check whether the filesystem does this?

It would be a pity if an ignorant user copied a repository to another filesystem only to find out that certain operations suddenly break.

Perhaps the option should include the filesystem UUID for which the option should apply (to prevent these kinds of surprises).

<comment><USER6> _> Can't git just check whether the filesystem does this?_

it can by using `git update-index --test-untracked-cache` but it takes a long time to check this, so I guess they don't want to incur that penalty on every run.

OTOH,

 _> It would be a pity if an ignorant user copied a repository to another filesystem only to find out that certain operations suddenly break._

yes. I agree. The way this is handled at the moment is dangerous to the point of this not being worth it at all.

<comment><USER5> > it can by using `git update-index --test-untracked-cache` but it takes a > long time to check this

How about just writing a file to a scratch directory, and see if the mtime of the directory was changed?

<comment><USER7> or how about just turning it on automatically for known-supporting systems, and leaving it as a system-wide config option for unknown systems?

<comment><USER8> The underlying file system determines compatibility so there is no OS level switch to check.

<comment><USER9> Seems like a flaw in POSIX -- there should be a bit in statfs (?) for something like this.

<comment><USER10> There is in struct statfs, which can be obtained for an open file descriptor using the fstatfs(2) system call, if you (a) want to make this autodetection OS-specific (statfs is Linux-specific, but I'm sure there's equivalents on other OSs) and (b) maintain your own list of compatible file system types.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> Looks like the "notes" functionality is turning into something quite useful, will be interesting to see if people start to use it in the future.

<comment><USER12> Cool, I didn't know about it. Does github (or another UI) integrate this somehow? Could be very useful. In particular being able to take notes about the purpose/goals of a branch strikes me as useful, something I wanted a long time ago.

<comment><USER13> Looks like GitHub used to support Notes, but they removed the functionality in 2014.

[https://github.com/blog/707-git-notes- display](https://github.com/blog/707-git-notes-display)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> Does anyone maintain a relatively up to date Debian repo? I seem to be on 2.1.4.

I'm a relatively light user and it's not a huge concern, but searching for 'debian git repo' yields more or less exactly what you would expect.

<comment><USER15> The easiest way is probably just to build it from source in your home directory rather than installing it system-wide.

<comment><USER16> This is the way to do it. Run "apt-get build-dep git" to install the build dependencies and the set "\--prefix=$HOME/opt" or whatever on the configure script to control where it's installed.

Installing parts of testing or ubuntu can serious mess up your system and have security consequences.

<comment><USER17> You can also backport the package, it's usually rather easy; you should just need to add a deb-src line for the testing repository to sources.list and then run:

      apt-get update
      apt-get install build-essential fakeroot devscripts
      apt-get build-dep git
      apt-get -b source git

The last line will download the source package and immediately compile it, generating a .deb file which you can then install:

      dpkg -i [package].deb

<comment><USER18> It looks like git 2.8.0-rc3 is the newest in the Debian archives. [https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/git](https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/git) will show when it's uploaded.

It corresponds to

commit 312e98e283ed7f62d72bb7ac07318285f1454c78

Author: Jonathan Nieder <firstname.lastname@example.com>

Date: Wed Mar 16 18:28:22 2016 -0700

        debian: new upstream release candidate

Sidenote: I wonder how far I'd get simplifying the `devscripts` package/dependencies - your instructions will download 200+ megabytes of packages `--no-install-recommends` will do 160.

Side sidenote: [https://repo.or.cz/r/git/debian.git/](https://repo.or.cz/r/git/debian.git/) is listed as Debian's upstream source for git, yet it doesn't use a valid SSL certificate...

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> This is very much welcomed:

      * You can now set http.[<url>.]pinnedpubkey to specify the pinned
      public key when building with recent enough versions of libcURL.

https is good, but if you can pin your certs, even better :)

</comment><comment><USER20> "It turns out "git clone" over rsync transport has been broken when the source repository has packed references for a long time, and nobody noticed nor complained about it."

So did they fix it or remove it?

<comment><USER21> From the very first section (Backward compatibility note):

        The rsync:// transport has been removed.

</comment></comment><comment><USER22> There was work to abstract git's hashids from being SHA1 (or at the very least, uint8_t[20]) - does anyone know what's going on with that?

SHA1 is still useful against preimage attacks (which is mostly what git is about), but freestart collisions are already known, and standard collisions are expected within the next two months - so git is no longer secure against a malicious committer.

</comment><comment><USER23> > The latest feature release Git v2.8.0 is now available at the usual places.

Out of curiosity, what exactly happened during 2.0 release that delayed Windows version by several months?

<comment><USER24> The msysgit guys did a bunch of work on their build system or something or other. If you look through their Google Group you'll find lots of info.

</comment></comment><comment><USER25> A new week, a new git security fuckup.

<comment><USER26> Care to elaborate?</comment></comment>


A terminal file manager written in bash - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/dylanaraps/fff <comment><USER2> Ranger has taken over my world the past few years. Heck I even have it working in Windows 10 in the Linux Subsystem (OpenSUSE for me). Ranger for me is just as fast in real life and my work Windows 10 machines are not anything to write home about.

<comment><USER3> Link for anyone like me who's never heard of it before: [https://github.com/ranger/ranger](https://github.com/ranger/ranger)

<comment><USER4> it's also already packaged in most distributions if you want to install it easily.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Would you mind taking a minute to explain why you needed a tool like this in the first place, please? I'm quite interested.

<comment><USER6> There's exhaustive reasoning in the readme: ¯\\(ツ)/¯

</comment></comment><comment> em-bee given that this is only 100 lines of code i am quite impressed.

however, i miss one feature for which i'd use a filemanager: in-place file renaming. in most cases when i want to rename a file, i want to change a small part of it, and i don't want to have to retype the whole filename.

i have yet to find a commandline utility (emacs doesn't count ;-) that offers that.

<comment><USER7> No need for a filemanager for in place file renaming. For that I'd just use curly bracket in bash or zsh.

e.g.

      mv /path/to/file{-old-name,-new-name}.txt

which expands to:

      mv /path/to/file-old-name.txt /path/to/file-new-name.txt

So use tab completion to get your path then go back and stick your curly brackets into it as needed. Oh and it works for things like git branch renaming or anything else you do in the terminal.

<comment><USER8> If you're a zsh user you can also use the other zshparam(1) stuff too. Like "mv file.ext{,(:r)}" to perform "mv file.ext file", or :l to lowercase a filename, or any number of other sometimes useful or often pointless things ;) I've used :l a number of times, but :s for substition is probably the most useful in general.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> This might hit a sweet spot due to the minimalism. The name is true, too. So it's really fast to open it and do a couple of things and then close it again. That said, I haven't actually used it "for real", we'll see how it fares.

</comment><comment><USER10> It might be nice if it could obey LS_COLORS so it would match the output of ls.

But this is nice, combining it with micro makes for a dead-easy combo of single-file utilities that I can drop onto a server and more easily move about.

</comment><comment><USER11> Does this do anything I can't do already via Emacs?

<comment><USER12> Run on a machine that doesn't have Emacs installed.

<comment><USER13> No need to install anything with "Tramp" mode ([https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/TrampMode](https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/TrampMode))

<comment><USER14> tramp is built into emacs now. Between tramp and helm the problem is solved :-P

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> I like the vi-inspired commands. I will definitely be trying this out.

I've also had good luck with using the terminal program, vifm, which also uses familiar vi muscle memory in a traditional "commander-style" two-panel layout.

[https://vifm.info/](https://vifm.info/)

</comment><comment><USER16> Looks similar to nnn ([https://github.com/jarun/nnn](https://github.com/jarun/nnn)), which is written in C with many more features.

</comment><comment><USER17> I wonder how you come up with this kind of obfuscated source code, does anyone have an idea how it's made?

</comment><comment><USER18> Lol, video shows lots of pirated content.

</comment><comment><USER19> How fast is "fucking fast?" Metrics please! :P

<comment><USER20> bash/10

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> no feature to shell into a directory ? that'd be useful

<comment> em-bee or read mail

</comment></comment><comment><USER22> Bad idea. Bad

<comment><USER23> why?</comment></comment>


Show HN: Firebase realtime database with gtk apps in elementary os - harisvs-code https://github.com/harisvsulaiman/agenda-realtime <comment><AUTHOR> Elementary os seems like an awesome OS.This might be an alternative to slow electronjs apps</comment>


GNU Guile 2.0.7 released - <AUTHOR> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guile-devel/2012-11/msg00211.html

<comment><USER2> I remember reading a while ago about an initiative to switch Emacs elisp implementation to use Guile backend. I haven't been watching that closely.

Does anyone have more information about the status of that project/initiative?

<comment><USER3> It's dead. It never really got legs; similar projects are proposed pretty much monthly on emacs-devel only to die quietly.

<comment><USER4> Yeah, it's fighting with "Let's reimplement Emacs in Common Lisp" for most often tried, yet ultimately unsuccessful project. I think there was a GSoC project recently, but haven't heard anything about its results.

<comment><USER5> There is Deuce [1], a project to port Emacs to Clojure. Specifically, the goal is to port the C core entirely to Clojure and replace many redundancies with JVM primitives; also, source-to-source transformation from Elisp to Clojure allows the editor to interpret Elisp on the fly.

[1] <https://github.com/hraberg/deuce>

<comment><USER3> The JVM seems like a really silly target for this. OH BOY! An editor that won't behave correctly in ANY environment!

<comment><USER5> You might have more experience in this area than I, but is this not the point of the JVM?

<comment><USER3> By targeting the JVM, you are giving up on a native user experience. Makes perfect sense when the user interface of your software is programmatic; insanity when you're trying to make software to be used by humans. Clojure is a good lisp, but hardly reason enough to toss _all UI convention_ for. C + Guile makes about a zillion times more sense.

<comment><USER5> I disagree; you are not tied to Swing or any Java UI toolkit merely by using Clojure on the JVM. You can just as easily integrate with a GTK, Cocoa, and whatever Windows uses.

You'll notice how the current Emacs is weird on all three platforms by default (at least they switched the scrollbar position). C/Guile isn't a panacea for a UI frontend, they're entirely orthogonal.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Ok, so I've heard about Guile, but never really paid it any attention. The home page is interesting, but doesn't reference any newbie guides for people like me.

They seem to have a JavaScript compiler front end, does this mean that by implementing Guile in your program you could use js to enhance your app?

Next question: if you had a web based app, could you use Guile to extend the site?

<comment><USER7> Hi,

I contribute to Guile (in a very small way); I'm happy to answer whatever questions I can about it.

You're right, I don't know of any newbie guides. If you already know Scheme, you'll find Guile easy, but if you don't, you'll need to learn that. You might be able to get started with the Guile manual, but that seems a little difficult, because it's really for reference. SICP (<http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book.html>) is the classic way to learn Scheme. If you're not interested in that, you can search for another introduction to Scheme. There are plenty of them around. The real issue for someone who knows how to program already is that Scheme is often used as a teaching language, so a lot of the introductions will be very basic.

There is a JavaScript frontend, but I don't think it's finished yet. Yes, if you embedded Guile in your program you could extend your program with JS, but you might need to do some work on Guile's JavaScript implementation first. Although even in its present state, it should be much, much easier to complete Guile's implementation than to build your own; plus you'd get the benefit of Guile's backend compiler work.

As for webapps, no, I don't think you could do what you're talking about. You can certainly use Guile to write the backend to a web app, and in fact it has a (web ...) series of modules for that, but you could do that with any other language too. You can't use Guile in the frontend of a web app, because that really depends on what browsers support. (Although it's possible you could use Guile to compile Scheme to JavaScript, if you want to do that.)

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> The one true lisp.

<comment><USER9> "Guile is an implementation of the SCHEME programming language, with support for many SRFIs, packaged for use in a wide variety of environments."

<comment><USER2> ... and Scheme, Common Lisp, Clojure and many others are just lisps.

<comment><USER9> Dialects of...sure. Definitely not "the one true lisp".

<comment><USER8> Well the one true lisp of course was given to us by Alonzo Church, that other guy we rarely hear of :)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Is Guile only for GNU system? Can it be embedded in OSX, iOS or Android application?

<comment><USER11> The license is LGPLv3.

<comment><USER12> Last I checked, this prevents distribution in an App store (correct me if I'm wrong) but there is nothing preventing you from using it on say OS X

<comment><USER13> There's nothing in the LGPLv3 that prevents you from charging money, or distributing through app stores, so long as you comply with the requirements of the license.

<comment><USER14> The issue is App Stores with DRM do conflict with the license. Though I think LGPL could be appeased by posting the code on a public website, but that might actually be a conflict :)

Apple certainly has a strong policy against GPL and LGPL on their store since it the store can not be compatible.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> I wonder why Guile isn't on Github's list of programming languages...

<comment><USER16> It's a Scheme, no?

<https://github.com/languages/Scheme></comment></comment>


Microsoft's default font is at the center of a government corruption case - <AUTHOR> https://thenextweb.com/world/2017/07/11/microsofts-default-font-is-at-the-center-of-a-government-corruption-case/ <comment><AUTHOR> They even tried to change the Wikipedia article of Calibri: [http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/pakistan/panamagate...](http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/pakistan/panamagate- sharifs-daughter-gave-false-documents-to-mislead-sc/articleshow/59554358.cms)</comment>


Ask HN: Building a new website monitoring service in 2017? - <AUTHOR> I always wonder if "disrupting" existing markets is possible, for example the monitoring website business. Is there any point in building a new service in that space or is better to look in other places?
This also applies to other common web services, what do you think?<p>I <comment><USER2> This market is crowded like hell. Check the two posts I'm linking below.

[https://www.supermonitoring.com/blog/the-updated-list-of- web...](https://www.supermonitoring.com/blog/the-updated-list-of-website- monitoring-services/)

[https://www.supermonitoring.com/blog/website-monitoring- serv...](https://www.supermonitoring.com/blog/website-monitoring-services- that-shut-down/)

<comment><USER3> So here's a question,

These services obviously didn't all appear at the exact same time.

So ... at some point there were 20 of them around, then a bunch of people launched new ones so now there were 30. This trend continued. At some point there were 90 of them around, people built more, now there are 100+.

See where I'm going?

Just something interesting to think about. Your service could also be among the "100 solutions already exist" group.

When there were only 99, someone still built the 100th one.

I feel like in 2018 the internet is so saturated you almost have to ignore the fact that other solutions exist.

<comment><USER2> I think there numbers are large because of two things:

1\. People are not aware that there are so many services already. It's not enough to google for "website monitoring" to get the entire picture.

2\. Entrepreneurs think that such service is a piece of cake to implement and to maintain. But the first 50 customers verify that wrong assumption.

Plus, with that numerous competition, led by a few giants (like Pingdom with 700,000+ customers), it's very hard to get noticed.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Try to sell it to me.

<comment><AUTHOR> Alright Paul,

What do you think of a monitoring service that has a quick setup (like in a few seconds). Where you can login using github|google|facebook. The main focus would be ease of use (setup and forget) with a lean, clean and aesthetically pleasing UI. Would be cool to manage and get notifications from your monitored sites using the following channels: * Whatsapp|Telegram|Slack Bot * an API|webhooks * Email|SMS * push notifications to a mobile App? * CLI tool (for managing sites) Also the service would have email/chat support, where all requests/queries are answered, where your data is not sold and is stored securely. (This are pain points I reviewed from other services)

The initial milestone, should be to monitor websites and backend services cloud based or not. Then would be possible to integrate more tools like status page, reporting, etc

PS: I think there is a new market emerging, which is under–attended, which is IoT, those small devices based on [https://freertos.org/](https://freertos.org/) for example chips based in ES8266 or arduino connected to Internet.</comment></comment>