React in patterns - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/krasimir/react-in-patterns <comment><USER3> Ugh, the dependency injection stuff is just Angular all over again.

        export default wire(Title, ['title'], function resolve(title) {
          return { title };
        });

Now I have to register "title" somewhere. Where is it registered? Did I remember to register it? I no longer know what's going on just by looking at the file in front of me, and my linter is silent. Then I have to annotate the function and declare it in the argument list. Items will be added and removed from the two lists as the app evolves, introducing more mental overhead and increased surface area for bugs, since once again my linter will have nothing to say on the topic.

Surely I'm in the minority given how popular Angular was, but I felt "DI" was the absolute worst thing about Angular's approach—basically a DSL layered over JS requiring yet more specialized tooling. The ability to look at just one file and understand it goes hand-in-hand with static analyzability, and I'd hate for the React community to abandon that and go down this path.

[edit] In the spirit of not dwelling on the negative, I should also say I did find most of the article to be a good summary of design patterns. Nice job!

<comment><USER4> Completely agree. I don't see many people in the React community advocating the use of DI though, so that's a plus.

The DI in Angular made a little bit of sense because JS modules weren't very widespread back then. But now, with ES6 imports (and/or 'require') there's no need. We have real modules now, and they can be dynamically injected for testing purposes with something like inject-loader[0].

I think Angular and/or DI's popularity has something to do with Java devs learning frontend development, and feeling more comfortable with more structure.

[0] [https://github.com/plasticine/inject- loader](https://github.com/plasticine/inject-loader)

<comment><USER3> Makes sense. My frustration in part stems from having worked on an app that used Angular DI and a module loading system (RequireJS) side by side. The conceptual dissonance and fallout between the two systems was an endless source of bickering and confusion for the team. I came to the situation having worked on a CommonJS/Browserify project, and it was like walking into a brick wall.

<comment><USER4> I worked on a project that had Angular + RequireJS too. I don't think having RequireJS added anything at all. It was just additional overhead - <USER2> module we added caused at least 3 files to change. We eventually ripped it out and just dealt with Angular's own module system.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> I literally don't know where to get started with React. Does anyone have any resources for a web design newbie?

<comment><USER6> I started last week and got decently up to speed with these three articles:

[1] "ReactJS for Stupid People" \- this explains what React is in simple meaningful terms.

[2] "React.js Introduction For People Who Know Just Enough jQuery To Get By" \- this shows you how things are usually done with just jQuery compared to how it's done in React. It really allows you to see why the jQuery way sucks.

[3] "Flux For Stupid People" \- by reading this you'll understand what the Flux stuff is about and can decide whether you need it or not - I chose to skip it.

Finally, if you want to get up to speed with ES6 classes at the same time, [4] shows you a simple example. I personally started writing my React stuff this way straight away.

I'm liking React a lot at this point.

[1]: [http://blog.andrewray.me/reactjs-for-stupid- people/](http://blog.andrewray.me/reactjs-for-stupid-people/) [2]: [http://reactfordesigners.com/labs/reactjs-introduction- for-p...](http://reactfordesigners.com/labs/reactjs-introduction-for-people- who-know-just-enough-jquery-to-get-by/) [3]: [http://blog.andrewray.me/flux- for-stupid-people/](http://blog.andrewray.me/flux-for-stupid-people/) [4]: [http://www.tamas.io/react-with-es6/](http://www.tamas.io/react-with-es6/)

<comment><USER5> Thanks for your insight :)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> I am struggling a little with Flux, everyone has their own implementation of it. I mean that is grand, but what does it actually mean for me? Contextless.

Thanks for sharing :)

<comment><USER8> Don't implement Flux or Redux until you need it. This is what most React experts keep saying, but there are a ton of entry-level tutorials trying to teach both React concepts and Flux concepts (probably because it's a cool pattern). For most small apps, it's unnecessary. Pass state down as props.

<comment><USER9> This.

If your component hierarchy matches your application state hierarchy, don't use flux. If you need to pass pieces of state around to a bunch of different components (like sharing state across views), use flux.

My first react application was complicated enough (enterprise analytics application) to require a flux implementation. I went redux and would highly recommend it both due to its ease-of-use and popularity. However, in subsequent applications I haven't needed it and have enjoyed writing vanilla react.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> In the section on higher-order-components:

        var enhanceComponent = (Component) =>
          class Enhance extends React.Component {
            render() {
              return (
                <Component
                  {...this.state}
                  {...this.props}
                />
              )
            }
          };

Shouldn't `{...this.state}` be considered an anti-pattern?

<comment><USER11> This comment is sure to prove controversial among the more rigorous React followers, but i disagree with the anti-pattern claims. Having built a startup on Backbone and React, i find that referencing `this.state` is a fine way to handle data shifts in our views.

While i have read the oft-presented reasons for not using `this.state`, the arguments feel more academic to me than being based in practical examples. Your milage may vary, but in my experiences `this.state` is one of the more powerful features in React. To me, removing read access to component state also removes one of the more compelling reasons to include React into your codebase at all.

<comment><USER10> To be clear, I wasn't meaning that use of local state was an anti-pattern in itself. I only meant that dumping all of the state of a wrapper component into the child should be avoided. Ideally, the complexity of the data in the props of a component should lessen the closer one gets to a leaf in the view tree.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> Thanks for sharing this, we were just looking for something like it after struggling with some of the concepts in React.

<comment><AUTHOR> Glad you liked it. Cheers!

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> One thing I prefer about Angular is all of these patterns are established and documented by the same people who designed the framework. In React they are distributed among hundreds of blogs and individual github repos, which all debate each other.

How long has React been out? Simple patterns such as component communication are debated, and third-party documentation about them is newsworthy?

<comment><USER3> The patterns handed down by the authors of Angular were one team's idea of how to do things, at a specific moment in time, which subsequently got enshrined and frozen in place for everyone for the next several years. And it works! It's a legitimate way to run a framework.

But, in such an environment, there's no marketplace where ideas can compete and evolve. There's a trade-off where you have to do the hard work of navigating and choosing among competing ideas, but the benefit of React is that you can choose an architecture, _today_ , that isn't a four-year-old snapshot of a small group's idiosyncratic architectural preferences.

<comment><USER13> _...the benefit of React is that you can choose an architecture..._

I don't see that as a benefit... you must choose, and hope you chose well, based on poorer information and docs. It's an expense and a risk.

Some are more confident about the cost and risk than others, but less conscious of it I presume.

<comment><USER14> The great thing about React is that you get to choose something that works for your team in your situation.

The bad thing about React is that you need to choose something that works for your team in your situation.

<comment><USER13> It takes more time and energy than the team realizes, which would otherwise be spent building the app.

Its the frontend after all... what matters is UI and features. Component communication patterns and all this low level stuff is time lost.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> here is some advice: don't use redux or any sort of state library, just use a normal state object, it only clutters your code.

<comment><USER16> I think this is great advice for a beginner on their first project. Using React's localState for everything is a huge anti-pattern, but Redux adds cognitive overhead and boilerplate.

Later, when you do a real project, Redux makes debugging and state consistency about 10 times easier, especially on a team or coordinating between multiple teams.

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> Can you add regular javascript versions of the patterns rather than only es6?

<comment><USER18> I find the Babel REPL useful when trying to figure out es6 code samples: [https://babeljs.io/repl/](https://babeljs.io/repl/)</comment></comment>


Ask HN: Is it worth it to learn desktop GUI frameworks anymore? - <AUTHOR> I don't consider myself entirely noob-ish in software/computer engineering. I've worked for a few years in low level development, and I think I have a good enough understanding to get a lot of things done.
I also spend a lot of time out-side of work on self-improvement, i.e. trying to become a better developer, learn more patterns, better ways of doing things, more practice, etc.
For a little while now, it has seemed like Software is in many ways converging in to the Web. Even big names like MSFT are beginning to offer a lot of "Cloud" based software. (I consider myself at least semi-competent in Web development, I've been a key contributor on a couple big projects for the SaaS company I work for).
Last week though, I thought it would be a good idea to try building a C++ application using Qt for the presentation layer. I've used WPF, .NET, ObjC/Cocoa, and JavaFX/Java Swing to build graphical programs. After a week though, I'm not really very close to getting Qt linked together correctly with CMake.
I'm just wondering if I should even bother? Web seems like it's dominating so much right now, that eventually desktop applications will be a thing of the past?
What are your personal thoughts on this, and should I even continue trying to improve my desktop GUI skills? <comment><USER2> Well, I can't speak for other frameworks, but C++/Qt is very much likely to be worth your time at some point.

In general, it's well written and well-documented. Many things you expect that will be hard to do in C++ are suddenly made easy. Just go through some of their small examples to get a gist of signals/slots, QObjects and QWidgets. If you're struggling with CMake I would recommend to stick with .pro files ("qmake") as the syntax is much, much less of a headache.

</comment><comment><USER3> An embedded browser can be packaged into a desktop app, [http://www.tivix.com/blog/nwjs-and-electronjs-web- technology...](http://www.tivix.com/blog/nwjs-and-electronjs-web-technology- desktop/)

</comment><comment><USER4> AppStore are more important than website and they're dominated on mobile devices, e.g. Facebook.

If you don't have the motivation to learn, find something you're comfortable with.</comment>


Nasa trains astronauts for asteroid mission - <AUTHOR> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/space/9261863/Nasa-trains-astronauts-for-asteroid-mission.html

<comment><USER2> "By the end of the next decade" means "never" in NASA-manned-spaceflight- speak.

NASA needs to be much much bolder in their planning. Set ambitious goals one relatively short timeframes. Then this stuff might actually happen.</comment>


Huge Underground Ice Deposit on Mars Is Bigger Than New Mexico - <AUTHOR> http://www.space.com/34811-mars-ice-more-water-than-lake-superior.html <comment><USER2> Start the reactor! (I know you were all thinking it)

In all seriousness it is amazing how prescient science fiction can be sometimes, though of course there is a confirmation bias there as we only really think about the cases where it does predict something and never when it doesn't.</comment>


Show HN: Why Do I Procrastinate? –  Web MD for Procrastination - <AUTHOR> https://whydoiprocrastinate.com/ <comment><USER2> Well, maybe sometimes this happens to me..

"I just go check the headlines on my favorite news sites and then I start my productive day.. and I drink this cup of coffee." .. 2 hours later. "Just this one headline, then I'm ready." .. 2 hours later. "Damn, where did the day go all of a sudden?"

Of course the solution is to first do the work and then read the news.. but that's the rational part of my brain speaking - not the sleepy, non-morning person persona of myself.

Of course ToDo lists, interesting tasks, deadline pressure and gamification work. Like pretending to be a character in an RPG - playing the game of my life. And then come up with ideas on how to level, quest and progress with the tasks/projects I have. Questlog: You have leveld up. You are now a level 14 code conjurer. You have completed the quest: Subjugate the data.. And then come up with fun side-quests (rewards) that I can only unlock at specific levels or after a particular quest is completed - like building a project RPG gamification tracker utility.

On the other hand, I am very productive once the day is over and I sit in front of the screen at night in the natural light of my computer screen, so there is that.

<comment><USER3> Self discipline definitely has a momentum effect.

My most productive days are the ones that start at 5am with a run, followed by a shower, meditation, and writing up a list of things I want to accomplish that day. Then I start working with my noise cancelling headphones and my flow-state playlist. It's very deliberate from start to finish.

My least productive days are the ones where I roll out of bed randomly, when the sun has been up for a while, and sit down at my desk still in my pajamas. HN or YouTube tend to be my first tasks of the day, and sometimes I don't get to any others. These types of days seem to be something that's happening to me, rather than something I'm choosing.

I struggle with depression, and I find the second kind of day is a feedback loop of anxiety and procrastination. The first kind of day is a virtuous cycle of productivity and serenity.

That 5am alarm is the best way I know to set the whole thing in motion.

<comment><USER4> I'm the opposite. If my brain has to engage before 10am the day's a waste. If I "ease into the day" then once I've dealt with the world on fire stuff about 11.30 I'll power through and before I know it it's 9PM and I've been massively productive.

<comment><USER5> This is me as well. My brain is useless until close to lunch time. After lunch I start feeling productive and this feeling begins to steamroll into the evening. When I am allowed to structure my day I don't even plan to start work until 6pm and can maintain great focus from then until 1am. Admittedly I imagine my ADHD has much to do with that and the habits I formed to cope with it as a child.

<comment><USER6> Interesting. My productivity _ends_ after lunch! It's all downhill from there - lack of focus, easily distracted, silly mistakes, is-it-5pm-yet thoughts etc.

I think it is breaking for lunch that does it. When I didn't have any team mates in my office and I'd just eat at my desk I'd still get good work done after eating. Now I have team mates in the same office as me and we go for a "proper" lunch break - something about stopping and then having to go back to work I guess.

<comment><USER7> [https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn24292-first- physical-...](https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn24292-first-physical- evidence-of-why-youre-an-owl-or-a-lark/) perhaps.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Procrastination is the avoidance of activity due to a discomfort/fear/anxiety and subsequent inability to scale the discomfort wall that exists between you and the tasks' completion. Other comments mention a pointlessness or lack of purpose, which I consider secondary, since it's arguable if it's truly procrastination if the work is truly pointless. Procrastination as a term seems best applied to important/mandatory tasks. Though, I acknowledge many BS tasks of today's workplace are both pointless and mandatory.

<comment><USER9> > Procrastination is the avoidance of activity due to a > discomfort/fear/anxiety and subsequent inability to scale the discomfort > wall that exists between you and the tasks' completion.

I am pretty sure my main reason for procrastination is the fact that I never learned to endure suffering/discomfort while growing up.

I grew up very sheltered and I was never forced to do anything which I did not like (bring out the trash, clean up the room, talk to people, ...). It was kinda nice growing up like this but when you turn 18 and have to enter the real world you realize you miss all the coping mechanisms which you need to do uncomfortable stuff.

<comment><USER10> I'd warmly encourage you to not make excuses or find reasons from your past to justify current maladaptive behaviors. If you're 18+ and grew up in safety, comfort, and with education you possess all the necessary executive functionality to take hold of what life will deal you.

<comment><USER11> I agree with what I think is the spirit of what you say, but it's unhelpfully reductive.

Many, many people who meet your criteria in fact are severely lacking in executive function.

Neurological conditions aside, surely you understand that an adult who's developing years formed a healthy "reward system" for accomplishing tasks will have a much easier time getting things done.

While, yes, most of us have the ability to correct past habits and develop discipline ... It's no different than an athlete who began training at an early age versus someone who took up a sport later in life. The difference in skill and ability is predictably and consistently stark.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> There's another potential cause for procrastination, that this website doesn't seem to diagnose or offer advice on -

I have a hypothetical task in front of me, which is interesting, impactful, within my skill range, well-defined, and I know the first couple steps to start on it. I estimate that I can complete the task with 2~3 hours of solid work. This sounds like the _ideal_ anti-procrastination scenario, right?

But, I know I have a meeting at some point in the next 20~40 minutes, and that meeting will end 15~5 minutes before lunch starts.

And then, hypothetically, the meeting gets canceled, or is shortened to ~5 minutes, and basically the whole morning's worth of time has been wasted.

Any advice for either

> how to overcome the hump of starting to spin up on a deep work task you're > likely to be interrupted for

or

> how to commit to starting a deep work task in a known uninterrupted block of > time later in the day, and find _meaningful_ shallow work to do now, in a > way that won't delay spinning up on the important task when the time becomes > available

<comment><USER13> If you have 10 minutes or more then trying to spin up is still useful.

You are not going to make progress directly, but you will have a few hooks to think about during the meeting. If it's a wasteful meeting you get something worthwhile to do, and if it's a useful meeting then no harm done.

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> Can I suggest either carefully stripping away user input or not using it at all in questions?

Clear security issue appeared when I typed:

        <script>alert("this is bad")</script>

...as a reason of my procrastination: [https://imgur.com/a/Xmdi9VQ](https://imgur.com/a/Xmdi9VQ)

EDIT: Further reading: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross- site_scripting](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-site_scripting)

<comment><USER15> Mind explaining how that text input field creates an XSS opportunity?

> XSS enables attackers to inject client-side scripts into web pages viewed by > other users.

Nobody other than you will see your alert("this is bad") so this doesn't seem like XSS.

<comment><USER16> that's until OP decides tonight that the tool is so pouplar that sticking a database behind it to serve anonymous examples MUST be a good idea, e.g.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> One thing that helped me with procrastination is to expose it for what it really is.

Let's say you wanted to quit smoking (I've done it cold turkey after smoking a pack a day for over 10 years btw). The only real way you'll have a fighting chance to quit without any alternative drugs is to really want to quit. Not "oh man I wish I could stop smoking", but "ok, I'm done with this, I'm ready to stop".

If you break down and smoke again, you're just creating a negative feedback loop on your self worth while taking the short term gains on how smoking makes you feel. You get some nicotine, but every time you "cheat" on yourself it's a constant reminder that you lack willpower and are worthless. Then suddenly you become that person who thinks they can't quit because it's wired in your DNA, when really, it's just poor habits.

Procrastination is the same thing. Instead of smoking, you're doing something else (reading HN, Youtube, playing games) instead of what you "should" be doing. Sometimes I still need to remind myself that what I'm working on is worth doing and nothing works better than a simple pros / cons sheet. Then you can prove to yourself how ridiculous it is to sit there and spend 6 hours watching Youtube instead of moving towards your goals which likely have very positive benefits to your life.

No apps or gimmicks needed. You'll eventually cure yourself of all procrastination (which by the way shouldn't be confused with taking breaks and giving yourself some time to slack off, because that's completely fine).

<comment><USER8> Interesting comparison between smoking and procrastination. If we examine the neurology of both, we see a dopamine-centric reward system behind task completion, and probably a very small dopamine hit after procrastination. Similarly, nicotine has been shown to affect the very dopaminergic pathways involved in reward/pleasure systems. So, in a very real neurological way, the comparison is apt. I wonder if people who succesfully go cold-turkey off nicotine have some tendency to procrastinate or not? Or generally, do those who smoke have a tendency to procrastinate or not?

<comment><USER18> Smoking and procrastination are both correlated with ADHD (for which dopamine has also been implicated) so there almost certainly is a correlation between them.

<comment><USER8> Oh true, I studied ADHD a bit, it's a neuro-developmental disorder of the dopaminergic system. Specifically, the motor cortex will develop more quickly/strongly than the executive function system, leading to a hyperactivity of motor activity and a hypo*activity of the "secretary" of the mind which filters/prioritizes/plans behaviors. Now there is a subset of primarily inattentive ADHD, which has less to do with movement and more to do with "spacing out" and lack of focus/attention, which can be combined with hyperactivity in the combined type (CT), versus the primarily inattentive subtype (PI). Also, yes, those with ADHD are much more likely to abuse stimulants, marijuana, and alcohol, anything with which to alter the brain chemistry away from a normal modality which might be stressful to be in. I have heard anecdotal tales about ADHD medications as revelations bordering on spirituality, people crying after taking their first dose at age 30 and realizing how much more "normal" it might make them. Really good to know that people can react so positively, though we also know that many non-ADHD individuals abuse the drugs as well.

<comment><USER19> I was one of those people, who got diagnosed in my early 30s (wasn't hyper as a child, therefore not AD"H"D, so). My medication, dexadrine, was indeed a revelation. But daily use for a couple of years led to a major mental breakdown, all the "amphetamine psychosis" symptoms. I was paranoid, angry, depressed, and suicidal.

I long ago stopped taking medication for it at all - I don't even have a prescription anymore. I just use coping strategies, many of which are about avoiding situations where it's a problem entirely. I have ADD, and I live with it. Because medication was better, until it was worse.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> PERSONAL ANECDOTE ALERT: Since I've began working from home, something I've found helpful is assigning context to a physical space and moving from space to space to context switch.

For example, I browse the internet and read news on my front porch, but my office is strictly work mode. My living room is strictly a space for relaxing and entertaining guests, my kitchen/dining area is for cooking and eating. It may sound weird but if I get a phone call or have to make an email. I move to my office ( my note pads, and desktop is ready to go which is a plus )

I think the work-from-anywhere play-from-anywhere meme has been damaging to my productivity and happiness. I feel a lot less anxious and more focused.

<comment><USER21> 100% agree on the importance of managing environmental queues!

Also not just physical spaces but other things like type of background noise, light conditions, even trivial things like posture, I feel they all seem to influence my ability to get into a state of 'flow'.

</comment></comment><comment><USER22> This questionnaire is entirely incompatible with enterprise environments, where the work is not only boring, but also pointless (as results are way further down the line and deliverables will surely change multiple times).

<comment><USER23> [http://strikemag.org/bullshit-jobs/](http://strikemag.org/bullshit-jobs/) … and the full-length new book it inspired… to the heart of what you're saying

</comment></comment><comment><USER24> "You have impulsiveness — by far the worst form of procrastination"

Yeah, thank you, as somebody with severe adult ADD diagnosis I know this perfectly well. The problem is what to do with it. I always will crave new things, to the point of ignoring anything else. I will always be distracted. The problem is what to do with all that...

</comment><comment><USER25> Seems like a good idea. Two thoughts. I always dislike conjuctions in these kinds of questions: "Today, I tried working on [X], and got distracted everytime." I worry that if I answer 1 out of 5 that it'll assume that that I didn't get distracted every time while instead I just haven't tried working on [X] today. Even if the website handles this correctly, why not make it two questions with the second only done if the first is a yes?

How well supported are the suggestions of this site? One of the ones I got was to imagine the worst case scenario if you kept procrastinating. But, okay, I imagined the worst case scenario and it meant I just had to wing something on the spot and do a little worse at it. Is that supposed to motivate me to stop procrastinating? Or is it supposed to make me realize that "everything's okay, stop worrying about it and maybe you'll enjoy doing it more"?

</comment><comment><USER26> WebMD? So the reason you procrastinate: you probably have a brain tumor?

<comment><USER27> I lost

</comment></comment><comment><USER28> With regard to dealing with impulsiveness on the internet by "throwing away the keys", the site recommends the StayFocusd extension for Chrome, but doesn't recommend anything for other browsers. For Firefox users, I recommend LeechBlock, which has a long history of maintenance, lots of users, and versions for both old and new Firefox: [https://addons.mozilla.org/en- US/firefox/addon/leechblock-ng...](https://addons.mozilla.org/en- US/firefox/addon/leechblock-ng/)

<comment><USER29> freedom.to costs money but works across multiple browsers and your mobile devices. not free but I've found it's worth the cost.

</comment></comment><comment><USER30> I wish had the time to procrastinate more.

Ironically, my job, which is the reason for my lack of procrastination time, I got directly as a result of the many hours I procrastinated during the last year of university.

Sometimes procrastination pays of, you just don't know it whilst procrastinating, which makes it valid procrastination at the time.

<comment><USER31> How did you procrastinate during your final university year?

<comment><USER30> How: When the deadline for handing in your thesis is many months ahead and you spend countless hours in a quiet setting with an old laptop "in need of optimization", an okish internet connection and an endless array of Linux subjects (all terrifically more exciting than the thesis) to delve into, procrastination instead of writing said thesis was no problem at all and proved not to be in the long run.

N.b. I did actually hand in the thesis on time. The last push to get in done was excruciating hard due to time pressure - the price of procrastination I guess.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER32> > _Oops._

> _Sorry, we can 't seem to find what the problem is._

> _TRY AGAIN?_

A little disappointing but the link to the book this is based on at the bottom of the page is good. Maybe put that front-and-centre for failures like this?

</comment><comment><USER33> I see and work on a lot of content marketing pieces. This is an example of content marketing executed _reeeeallyy_ well. Massive props to Boss As A Service.

</comment><comment><USER34> Looks cool! I was going to fill it out, but I decided to put it off.

</comment><comment><USER35> The people in life that are most successful are usually the ones that are compelled to do a thing for whatever reason.

If you're procrastinating; it's simply an indication you don't want to do a thing. Sure, you can use hacks etc to get the thing done, but at the end of the day, there's no real, underlying driving will within yourself to get the thing done.

Perhaps spending time finding the things you willfully do rather than focusing on the things you tend to avoid might be great way to avoid procrastination.

I get it though. That buzzing lazy feeling of getting some things done but not all the things; or the things you need to get done while lazily avoiding the things you supposedly want to do.

I have noticed in my life that I willfully do some things to completion because I just have an underlying will to get it done.

</comment><comment><USER36> Ok, so what actual science is this based on? Why should I give out personal stuff like "What are you avoiding right now" if it doesn't have an effect on the outcome when completing this form (because you're probably trying to figure out what people procrastinate most often...)?

Anyways, not sure about this type of application. In general one should avoid medical apps or forms put together by a start up. It typically doesn't involve any science or actual medical advice, and with things that can also be caused by some serious medical issue (procrastination can be caused by depression) I don't really think this is the right way to go.

If you actually did not just pull a content marketing thing, and this is based on actual science, then why not include some sources?

</comment><comment><USER37> Incubating has saved me 1000's of hours of wasted work time going down the wrong path.

[http://interactions.acm.org/blog/view/the-joy-of- procrastina...](http://interactions.acm.org/blog/view/the-joy-of- procrastination)

</comment><comment><USER38> "Oops. Sorry, we can't seem to find what the problem is."

I guess I should stop procrastinating by finding out why I'm procrastinating and go back to work.

</comment><comment><USER39> My one little life hack for the morning procrastination is this:

Always make sure you have set yourself a simple task to complete/continue the following morning.

It gives an achievable goal that can help kickstart your working flow for the day.

<comment><USER40> > _Always make sure you have set yourself a simple task to complete /continue > the following morning. [¶] It gives an achievable goal that can help > kickstart your working flow for the day._

Or as Admiral William McRaven (Navy SEAL, at the time the head of Special Ops) put it: "Make your bed." [0]

[0] [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6OoCaGsz94](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6OoCaGsz94)

</comment></comment><comment><USER41> In my case, I believe I managed to identify the root cause: 90% of the work I do is slightly over my head. As a bootstrapped solo founder and to stretch out the money I saved up I must do a lot of the tasks myself, which you would usually hire a specialist to do. This is not restricted to the technical aspect of my business but also concerns the legal, financial and sales side. So, imagine you're a top of the line DBA with many years of experience and I ask you to take care of the front-end of the app as well as the backend, deal with the GDPR (without the help of a lawyer) and figure out sales in a market where traditional sales don't work, you will eventually spread yourself thin. Now, this is how I overcome the challenge: as soon as I get a task which I don't know how to tackle e.g. getting a firm grasp on double taxation avoidance agreements and procrastination sets in because I'm unsure where to get started, I break everything down into a single task and try to conquer it. Depending on the complexity of the task and lack of my knowledge how to tackle it the greater the procrastination. That procrastination, however, helps me, in turn, to process the task in 'the background' until I find a way to get started. Not sure if this makes sense, or if it is just me. On the other hand, constantly working on different tasks across professions has helped me to quickly learn the fundamentals of each sector/topic/issue/field. If it is really needed I can still consult with a specialist and save some money, because there is a baseline for discussion and I know exactly what I need/want.

</comment><comment><USER42> Nice concept, but all I got was: "Oops.

Sorry, we can't seem to find what the problem is."

<comment><USER43> Ditto. In my case it's just that the amount of work I would have to do to be happy with my own side projects causes me to procrastinate on starting them, as I don't have a perfect image in my head of an objectively successful outcome yet so I just delay.

<comment><USER44> The way you put this really resonates with me. Often when I'm procrastinating it's because a task seems/feels/sounds really daunting, but the "daunting" feeling is because I'm imagining just how __damn hard __it 's going to be to do the task perfectly. It creates this mental barrier to getting started because completing it perfectly (or, to my expectations) seems too hard.

Breaking out of this by realizing that "perfect" is not the goal, and setting more attainable sub-goals for myself is key, but hard.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER45> I believe I procrastinate because life is so demanding and complex that I am constantly straining against the limits of my productivity for imposed work. It is due largely to a mismatch between my natural interests and society's demands. The question is what to do about that so I can be more effective.

"Because baboons are rarely threatened by famine, plague or predators, they are good models for socialized disease, Sapolsky says: 'Baboon societies are ironically a lot like Westernized humans. We're ecologically privileged enough that we can invent social and psychological stress. Baboons in the Serengeti, who only work three hours a day to meet their caloric needs, are similarly privileged. They ulcerate because of social complexities.'" [1]

Procrastination, it seems to me, ultimately falls in the category of "ulcerating because of social complexities".

[1] [https://news.stanford.edu/news/2001/february21/aaassapolsky-...](https://news.stanford.edu/news/2001/february21/aaassapolsky-221.html)

</comment><comment><USER46> "Oops. Sorry, we can't seem to find what the problem is."

<comment> 52-6F-62 Also same here. And here I thought I was uniquely troubled

</comment></comment><comment><USER47> This quiz is based on the The Procrastination Equation by Piers Steel, which is perhaps the best book I have read on the topic.

</comment><comment><USER48> "Sorry, we can't seem to find what the problem is."

</comment><comment><USER49> Procrastination is due to not doing things on your own terms, which means that what you feel you have to do comes from the outside. Often this symptom comes from disparity between what you think you want to do and what should be done (the outside). For example, what you do in the university is something you want to do, but not always in a way you think things should be done. Here procrastination comes along. The solution is to do things on your own terms as often as possible. It's debatable how far you can go with this idea, because in the end it becomes a question of what's the meaningful relationship between you and the society. When you have to give in to outside pressure, then some tricks might help you. But what I said before that, IMHO, is what the issue is really about.

</comment><comment><USER50> Also check out "The Now Habit". Sounds corny but it really identifies the baste causes of procrastination and has some great tools for overcoming it. I can't say I'm completely cured yet, but it did help me to read it.

</comment><comment><USER51> I don't like to do the thing I need to do cause it has no instant internal feedback.

It has long term goal feedback. Like the feedback comes sort of in 6 months. And even then it was only a step to more work.

Hard work leads to gratification.

Fuck ADHD.

</comment><comment><USER52> "The reason you're procrastinating is simply that you find this task unpleasant to do."

Well... that wasn't very helpful, was it? Isn't this the usual reason that one can easily identify?

</comment><comment><USER53> March is national procrastination week.

So it is okay to procrastinate then, in observance of the event. But people don't always get around to observing it right at the beginning of March.

</comment><comment><USER54> The iProcrastinate podcast ([http://iprocrastinate.libsyn.com/](http://iprocrastinate.libsyn.com/)) is really good. Some of the early episodes have audio issues, but they are worth listening to. The host has been researching procrastination for like 20+ years.

Their main website is [http://www.procrastination.ca/](http://www.procrastination.ca/)

</comment><comment><USER55> Smooth, went to the end of the quizz and appreciated the suggestions. Now I need to apply the advice :) Makes me want to read the book mentioned.

</comment><comment><USER56> I had pretty low expectations when I opened this, but was pleasantly surprised. It's not that the advice was that helpful (I enjoyed the reminder, but I've heard that all before), but simply asking me questions like "can you do successfully do this, once you start?" helped adjust my thinking.

By choosing "I can do this", I remembered that I can

</comment><comment><USER57> Every time I hear about procrastination it reminds me about great talk by Evan Czaplicki and his approach to Elm development, actually it can be good thing ([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSjbTC- hvqQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSjbTC-hvqQ) see 19:15 Batching Work).

</comment><comment><USER58> It'd be cool see some stats for the results people get. I'm sure a lot of people are taking the quiz right now. Could we find what makes people procrastinate most often?

Spoiler, I got 'lack of value' and for some reason I bet it's gonna be a winner, at least when it comes to the HN userbase

</comment><comment><USER59> One remark: with "What are you avoiding doing right now?" it prompts to answer many activities. In my case they were different (chores vs creative and open- ended stuff), so it was not easy to answer questions in a meaningful way.

(It should clearly prompt to write a single thing/activity.)

</comment><comment><USER60> So how do these suggestions work if what you're procrastinating on is your job? Asking for a friend.

</comment><comment><USER61> I don't want to take the test right now. Maybe tonight. I know there is something motivational at the end of the test that would make me want to do it, but I'm not going to do it anyway. Basically, I'm procrastinating by writing this comment and not doing the test.

</comment><comment><USER62> nice one, and good advertising for BAAS = boss as a service .

PS: how many user does BAAS have, and: is it automated?

</comment><comment><USER63> "Sorry, we can't seem to find what the problem is."

I know what the problem is: it's a hobby project and 1) employer work takes priority and 2) I'm so stinking tired at the end of a day and 3) adult chores take priority on the weekend.

</comment><comment><USER64> The service sounds really good, though I think the subscription payment should also include Paypal. I think many people would like to avoid handing over their credit card information to more sites if they can.

</comment><comment><USER65> Kind of a step by step walk that takes you through this: [https://alexvermeer.com/getmotivated/](https://alexvermeer.com/getmotivated/)

<comment><USER66> Wow, this is really handy!

</comment></comment><comment><USER67> I just used it to consult with a young woman who cancelled her open heart surgery today, which gives her two years to live. The result was low expectancy, and the advice is indeed helpful.

<comment><USER68> Wow, that's a heavy thing to deal with. Why'd she cancel the surgery and how was it related to procrastination?

<comment><USER67> Low in expectation. The site argued she just didn't expect it to be successful.

She seemed to agree.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER69> One of the major causes of procrastination is being assigned obviously pointless busy-work. It's hard to be motivated when you know that you're just box-checking.

</comment><comment><USER70> I liked the gamification hints:

\- give yourself a clock, and race against the clock

\- it may be boring, so add some difficulty to it, extra challenges, stretch goal.

neither may apply to all task though.

</comment><comment><USER71> Too many questions to answer IMHO. Can't see anyone using this tool more than once.

Should narrow it down to 5 questions tops to get any value on daily basis

<comment><USER72> " _Twelve questions?_ I'll do it later."

</comment></comment><comment><USER73> My biggest source of procrastination is Hacker News!

</comment><comment><USER74> Might just be me but the start button over laps with the "Made with" message and sends me off on a hyperlink somewhere else.

</comment><comment><USER75> You procrastinate because you are tired. Sleep, and entertain yourself with the presence of good people. Boom, procrastination gone.

</comment><comment><USER76> "Nobody procrastinates doing what they enjoy." I'm guessing mental illnesses are out of the picture here then.

</comment><comment><USER77> [https://imgur.com/a/asNrBd2](https://imgur.com/a/asNrBd2)

<comment><USER78> [https://imgur.com/IPV0YJ1](https://imgur.com/IPV0YJ1)

</comment></comment><comment><USER79> I tried doing this during breakfast. So I was honest and said that's what I'm doing.

Made no sense :D !

I'll try it later during a procrastination break.

</comment><comment><USER80> I would perhaps argue that most modern procrastination is fundamentally due to tech and social media addiction.

</comment><comment><USER81> Insert "hurting my brain" as the first answer and enjoy a comedy of questions.

</comment><comment><USER82> Oh wait. I input "lying in bed" cuz I should be asleep. That was kinda meta…

</comment><comment><USER83> "Sorry, we can't seem to find what the problem is."

Neither can my friend, neither can I.

</comment><comment><USER84> Okay, I'll read it later!

</comment><comment><USER85> Protip: Typing in the word "Nothing" makes this pretty hilarious.

</comment><comment><USER86> They couldn't find out why I am procrastinating. We are on par.

</comment><comment><USER87> Just wanted to say - this is great, and I enjoyed it! thank you!

</comment><comment><USER88> OK I'll read this, just gotta check facebook first...

</comment><comment><USER89> I found BossAsAService through this. Nice idea.

</comment><comment><USER90> Site needs a favicon.ico

</comment><comment><USER91> feeling like you have to do something is dopamine resistance.

</comment><comment><USER92> Did you create this?

</comment><comment><USER93> Pretty useful app.

<comment><USER36> Could you elaborate why? To me this seems like your typical, not based on actual science, 1 minute to conclude form put together by content marketing in typeform or something similar.

<comment><USER55> It's based on a book mentioned at the end, "The Procrastination Equation". There is also a link explaining how the equation works.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER94> Whew! I thought this was going to be a link to tvtropes!

</comment><comment><USER95> It turns out that I'm procrastinating on my work because I feel it isn't valuable to society or rewarding. I wonder if I'm right!

<comment><USER96> And you do valuable things when you procrastinate?

<comment><USER95> That's actually debatable. I certainly do _rewarding_ things for myself when procrastinating.

And my job honestly is a negative value to society. I am a salesman at a rent seeking corporation.

I would literally do society more good if I wasn't driving a gas guzzler to work every day and sitting in a giant air conditioned office.

<comment><USER97> I'm in the same boat, advertising with big data and generative deep learning. Harmful garbage if you ask me. I have no savings but I'm quitting as soon as I get an offer. I don't care if I get fired, I'd rather be homeless.

<comment><USER95> Haha +1 username btw.

I've done homelessness in between jobs for this very reason (I used to work for Oracle lol). It was awesome. And I don't mean to imply that I was on the streets, needle in my arm, skid row type homeless. Those men and women and kids are going through really rough shit.

I mean that I was sleeping in my car in the woods or at national parks or in corporate parking lots (not Walmart, more like Regional Shipping Corporation INC after 7PM and all the employees have gone home).

It was the most liberating and freeing period of my life. I came back to work because I want more money and I thought I could save enough money to put an actual roof over my head (and my gf's too). Apparently I'm wrong- this is the most expensive housing market ever, and many cities/towns/counties don't want to let me put a pre-fab house on any piece of land in their jurisdiction...

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER98> I know people hate to admit it and create these fancy terms for ages old behavior. Procrastinate is being lazy,as simple as that. Reading news and watching YouTube videos while you are getting paid to do work is being lazy with a capital L.

So yeah, please stop coming up with excuses if you procrastinate as if it is some sort of disease, drop the distractions and just get to work.</comment>


Investigation report: High volume betting clubs in the Mass Cash Winfall - <AUTHOR> http://www.mass.gov/ig/publications/reports-and-recommendations/2012/lottery-cash-winfall-letter-july-2012.pdf <comment><AUTHOR> This letter gives a fascinating look at the structure of three high-volume betting clubs that formed around the Massachusetts Cash Winfall game.

In the past, the Boston Globe has done its best to cast a pretty negative light on these bettors. This investigation gives quite a different view.

Starting on p. 14, the description of the August 16th, 2010 drawing and the MIT club's trigger of a surprise rolldown is both fascinating and a bit scary in terms of what it means about the structure of the lottery commission.</comment>


iPhone security flaw - <AUTHOR> http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/169372/everybody_panic_the_iphone_has_a_vulnerability.html

<comment><USER2> Since this vulnerability is exploiting a bug in the sms delivery mechanism it could easily be stopped at the carrier by looking for sms messages that match the template for the exploit. My guess is this will be a shortlived panic.

The phone system isn't peer-to-peer (yet), centralization has its advantages sometimes.</comment>


LuminoCity3D – Urban Density and Dynamics Map Explorer for Great Britain - <AUTHOR> http://luminocity3d.org/

<comment><AUTHOR> The 3D effect really becomes noticeable when looking at Employment density plots. Skyscrapers appear in Central London and Canary Wharf: [http://luminocity3d.org/Economy.html#employment_density_2011...](http://luminocity3d.org/Economy.html#employment_density_2011/11/51.5410/-0.1253)

<comment><USER2> Yes, but doesn't this distort the visualization?

Not only does the darkness of the hexagon increase with the density, but the area of the screen that is covered.

Moreover, the hexagon immediately to the north is obscured, so the data there is lost.</comment></comment>


The 'Age progressed photo' mistake - <AUTHOR> http://mashable.com/2010/01/17/fbi-bin-laden/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Mashable+%28Mashable%29 <comment><AUTHOR> This link gives a clear picture of the scene [http://in.news.yahoo.com/139/20100117/882/twl-fbi-admits- usi...](http://in.news.yahoo.com/139/20100117/882/twl-fbi-admits-using- spanish-politician.html)

Too much sugar on Mashable article.</comment>


Show HN: Python API to execute functions from shell scripts - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/timofurrer/shellfuncs <comment><USER2> Thanks for this! It looks like a very useful way to wrap tests around a large bash shell script before migrating it to Python.</comment>


2015 State of Devops Report [pdf] - <AUTHOR> https://puppetlabs.com/sites/default/files/2015-state-of-devops-report.pdf <comment><USER2> Meh reads more like marketing fluff than anything. Its just an incoherent mess of academic articles and industry white papers(some more than a year old) and a sprinkle of survey monkey. TL;DR Devops! yeah make tommorow's profits more Devopsy today with puppet. Continuous Diversity, lead time synergies, and SUCH!

<comment><USER3> Yeah, it is just silly. At some point one has to ask, like, what is the difference between "that" and the email that tries to sell you unbeatable stock market investing scheme, penis enlargement pills, or the cure for baldness.

"High-performing IT organizations deploy 30x more frequently with 200x shorter lead times; they have 60x fewer failures and recover 168x faster. "

200x shorter... 168x faster... wow. Where do I sign?

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> I was especially curious to see the male-to-female ratio in the report. My personal belief is that this is a big problem.

<comment><USER5> Why is this a problem in your opinion?

<comment><USER6> Not his opinion but one could cite the report itself:

 _Diversity matters. Research shows that teams with more women members have higher collective intelligence and achieve better business outcomes. Our survey shows that few teams are truly diverse with regard to gender. We recommend that teams wanting to achieve high performance do their best to recruit and retain more women, and improve diversity in other areas, too._

<comment><USER7> >> Research shows that teams with more women members have higher collective intelligence and achieve better business outcomes.

The research used is this paper [https://publications.credit- suisse.com/tasks/render/file/ind...](https://publications.credit- suisse.com/tasks/render/file/index.cfm?fileid=8128F3C0-99BC-22E6-838E2A5B1E4366DF)

which claims having more women on the board has achieved better business outcomes.

Which is fine until you start digging and find out that they passed legislation in Europe forcing companies to be more diverse. That companies in Europe had the number of women on boards double in less than two years [http://imgur.com/a/4sE2y](http://imgur.com/a/4sE2y) despite a recession and stagnating economy.

Then they justify the economic "recovery" since the __2008 crash __to that decision.

And now hiring more women is associated to economic growth.

You should hire and compensate people based on the value they generate. Instead companies are becoming political parties trying to reach diversity quotas to satisfy the local demographics and government policy du jour.

This has been going on for decades but there is nothing like government intervention to accelerate a disaster.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> I (along with many others, I would assume) would be interested in seeing data on what the usage trends are for different devops tools.</comment>


How we built Tagger News: machine learning on a tight schedule - <AUTHOR> http://varianceexplained.org/programming/tagger-news/ <comment><USER2> Link to original HN submission: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14337275](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14337275)

It's worth noting for future reference that in terms of supervised learning of labels given a text document input, fasttext ([https://github.com/facebookresearch/fastText](https://github.com/facebookresearch/fastText)) is _leagues_ ahead of conventional approaches in both accuracy and training speed, and there is a Python interface ([https://github.com/salestock/fastText.py](https://github.com/salestock/fastText.py)) for use with Django/Flask (unfortunately, recent fasttext changes have broken the interface for now).

<comment><USER3> How does fasttext compare to vowpal wabbit?

<comment><USER4> Basically the same [1,2].

[1]: [https://twitter.com/yoavgo/status/751178795323908096](https://twitter.com/yoavgo/status/751178795323908096)

[2]: [https://nlpers.blogspot.com/2016/08/fast-easy-baseline- text-...](https://nlpers.blogspot.com/2016/08/fast-easy-baseline-text- categorization.html)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> I noticed some things were pretty terribly tagged earlier this week. Robots have a ways to go, this is good news.</comment>


How Little Sleep Can You Get Away With? - <AUTHOR> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/17/magazine/mag-17Sleep-t.html?hp <comment><USER2> I'd settle for even being able to sleep at regular intervals. I have a habit of staying up until I'm tired and waking up when I can't sleep anymore. As a result, I may stay up all day for several days and then stay up all night for several days. Or for several days, I may sleep twice during 24hrs, in completely random periods. I just don't do well with the concept of "well, it's 10pm, so that means it's time to get into bed".

<comment><USER3> Long live melatonin. Gave me a lot more control over my sleep schedule. Plus, the "positive side effects" section on the wikipedia entry is several pages long...

<comment><USER4> Melatonin is great. Dream Water has the similar effect too.

<comment><USER5> Dream Water and Night Food are chock full of melatonin.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> During my first year of university while I was running a start up our of dorm room (modest success) and doing a full course load I was running on four hours of sleep a night and an hour afternoon's nap just before supper.

That experience taught me something very important, sleep is crucial. When you are tired you get tunnel vision and all you want to do is complete your task. The long term effects of this on your start up is that you loose the edge to be innovative while trying to solve problems.

<comment><USER7> The worst part is you only want to complete the task, so that you can sleep.

<comment><USER8> No, the worst part is, that you wake up and find you only produced crap.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> I envy all of you people who "choose" how many hours of sleep they will have (or not have). After you have kids, especially if their sleep pattern is very inconsistent for no apparent reason, you just take whatever you can get. Unfortunately, you may not be ready to sleep at 10pm that night that your child will decide to wake up at 1am ready to go about her day... Don't pay attention to me. Just another rant from a sleep-deprived parent... ;)

<comment><USER10> We had a lot of sleep-related problems with our kid. We recently sought professional help and started a program that gives children good sleep habits. We are three weeks in, and the results so far are nothing short of amazing. To put it simply, the kid is sleeping much better, and we got our lives back.

One thing we learned the hard way is that following a method from a book is not enough -- you need a professional to guide you through this. There are many pitfalls you don't know about that will lead to failure, and you wont even realize what it is you're doing wrong. Good luck!

<comment><USER11> Can you explain in a bit more depth?

<comment><USER12> "you need a professional to guide you through this" - I think that's probably enough depth?

<comment><USER13> No, it's not. He's asking for more detail than that. Otherwise, he wouldn't have responded to a comment saying "you need a professional to guide you through this" with "Can you explain in a bit more depth?".

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> How little sleep one can survive on is something I would like to not to explore. I've struggled with insomnia for over a decade now, and if you are fortunate to consistently get a solid nights sleep and wake up refreshed, then you should appreciate the energy you have.

I would much rather sleep well, have less hours in the day to work with and operate at 80-100% mental capacity rather than get less sleep, drink gallons of coffee or other stimulants and struggle with being able to think clearly.

Ironically enough, it's exam season now and I may have found a solution - forcing myself to go to bed at midnight, and up at 8-9am (no matter how bad I feel) and taking one caffeine tablet in the morning and one at at lunch, I now have something like regular alertness for the first time consistently in years. It's only a few days into this phase however so who knows how it will pan out. Many a false dawn (pun intended) was had before with solving insomnia!

<comment><USER15> Ever try not exposing yourself to light at night? That's _any_ light - overhead lights, computer screens, lamp poles. Your body produces melatonin based on that kind of input, and anything with significant blue light in it apparently stops you from producing it.

<comment><USER14> Believe me I've tried everything over the years. From what I've read about insomnia, it's incredibly subjective; things that work for one person won't help at all for others. Some people can get their "sleep hygiene" (stuff you are supposed to do in order to sleep well) all wrong, and still sleep like a log, e.g. drink plenty coffee late in the evening, noisy environment, lack of exercise, eating heavily close to bedtime etc. If I do any of these things I'm almost guaranteed to have an awful night's sleep.

Recently I've bought a Kindle DX (used along with a relatively dim overhead freestanding lamp[1]), and I read that till I feel really sleepy. This satisfies my craving for reading instead of staring at a computer screen. The lack of a backlit screen shining into your retinas really helps!

[1] [http://p.mdcd.net/product_images/full/2b3c568350aa9759eaa00a...](http://p.mdcd.net/product_images/full/2b3c568350aa9759eaa00ae3eead90ad66dba9bd.jpg)

<comment><USER16> I am a lifelong insomniac recently (the last 7 years or so) transitioned into parasomnia (inability to stay asleep).

I've also "tried" everything and also feel the same when I get 2-3 days of very solid sleep in. A different person :) Strangely, I have had VERY good experiences with GABA, ZMA (both supplements, GNC etc.)Holy Basil extract (herbal pill). This combo really helps me fall and stay asleep more on Average versus most of anything else (including melatonin).

It helps as an assistant, not a knock-out Ambien like sleep aid, which I can't use if I want to be alert for work :)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> I often get told that I don't sleep enough (more like 6 than 8, if that), but for me, my dreams get stranger the longer I sleep, and my day is happier if I can wake up without strange dreams lingering in my head. For example, last night I slept about 8 hours (probably due to wine the night before), and my final dream involved me trying to evade certain death in a circus. I'd prefer to start off my day on cheerier notes. :)

I don't use an alarm as I believe in waking up when your body wants you to, after its natural cycles end. Or at least, thats what usually works for me.

<comment><USER18> You can get a sleep cycle alarm which will take care of that. Sleep Cycle for iOS works, with the possible problem that you need a power cord long enough to put the device on your bed.

<comment><USER19> I saw a documentary about sleep a few years ago. The main idea was that a sleep cycle lasts approximately 90 minutes, and you feel better rested when you avoid waking up in the middle of a cycle.

Since then, I always set my alarm clock to sleep a multiple of 90 minutes: 6h, 7h30min, 9h... (6 hours more often than not, but I might change this, having read this article...)

I used to dream all the time. I haven't dreamt since I started doing this. I guess I still have dreams, but I never remember them. I think you only remember dreams when you are woken up in the middle of REM sleep (in the middle of a cycle).

A nice benefit of my current sleep pattern, is that I fall asleep very fast, instead of waiting in bed for up to 1 hour like I used to. I hope it's not because I'm sleep deprived, though...

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> Loved this article. I would love to see a simliar test around polyphasic sleep (<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyphasic_sleep>).

I've actually tried the Uberman sleep schedule for three weeks. This is where you sleep 20 minutes for each 4 hours, totalling in a whopping 2 hours sleep each day.

The time gain was insane, and the transition period aswell (between day 3-5 I actually hallucinated due to sleep deprevation). But around 1.5 weeks something strange happened. The 20 minute period that you are allowed to sleep seemed like hours each time, and I would wake up like clockwork on the 20 minute mark.

The whole routine is not just a sleep routine, it affects your entire lifestyle. No stimulants, including sugar, high degrees of fat, caffeine. No sedatives, alcohol, drugs (!). And the fact that you are awake during the night when the whole world seems dead is one of the hardest social aspects to handle. What do you do with 6 extra hours each day?

Of course there's the aspect of finding somewhere to sleep every 4 hours (was at school at the time), and if you ever missed out, you would have hell to pay.

I eventually buckled on a skiing trip with an open bar, had a nice weekend and decided to going back to normal sleeping patterns. Partly because it was not socially acceptable to sleep 2 hours a day (my father threatened to beat some sense into me). But also that there was very little foundation that this kind of sleep pattern was even safe. A couple of million years of evolution had other idea's of when and how long it is necessary to sleep.

Other than that, the foundations that I gathered up from this was that when changing your sleeping pattern. The body frantically tries to adapt. By sleeping extremely short periods the body would effectively increase the amount of REM sleep (and yes, I dreamed a lot during these sleeping periods), however, it has not been proven that you don't need the other types of sleep.

This is probably a lot of rumours, and a lot of wishful thinking. I personally wish there was some solid backing behind this kind of reasoning (more time awake is awesome!), There are a lot of buzz out there (check google and youtube), but I've been unable to find anything reasonably solid.

<comment><USER21> Isn't polyphasic considered a hoax? Piotr Wozniak, though his site looks rather shitty, seems to know what he is talking about: <http://www.supermemo.com/articles/polyphasic2010.htm> Specifically this paragraph sums the thing up:

      I received some 500 pieces of mail and got in personal
      touch with many polyphasic adepts. Of those attempts that
      I was given a chance to monitor, all were unsuccessful.
      Some of the critics of the original article claimed that
      they do sleep polyphasically, but I received no data that
      could serve as the basis for verification.

Also I recall reading quite many stories about people who tried polyphasic and they are similar to yours - ie. after 2-3 weeks they stop for some random reason - which really sounds to me like "I can't make it, but I won't admit even to myself so I say I stopped for reason X". Also some actually stop earlier and admit they were constantly deprivated.

<comment><USER22> That doesn't really make it a hoax though: yes, everybody gave up after a while, but like OP, it may well just be social pressure. All polyphasic sleep accounts I read ended up with something along the lines of "its too hard to fit social events around such a strict schedule". If you're awake during the night when nobody else is and you have to nap when everybody else is awake, and you CANNOT miss a nap, then of course people are eventually going to cave in and go back to a more normal schedule so that they mesh with their friends schedules better.

I think to make the ubermann cycle work, you need 1) to have a job that allows such a schedule 2) not have kids 3) have a bunch of your friends do it too so that your schedule isn't too different from the people you interact with the most.

IMHO, its unlikely that people will will meet all three of those points though. The "solution" would perhaps be a less severe and strict schedule. For example, I tried a 28-hour day schedule (the one from xkcd.. am I crazy trying a sleep cycle I saw in a comic?) and it worked really well: stay up 20 hours then sleep for 8, repeat. Monday to thursday fit around my uni schedule (at the time) perfectly, Friday (which I had off) through Sunday I was basically awake at night and asleep during the day. I ended up with 6 28 hour days. Worked really well! ...until the day I had an appointment in the middle of my "I'm supposed to be asleep" time on a Friday, got knocked off course and didn't bother going back to it.

<comment><USER23> You must have read different accounts than I have. Yes, they all say that it's difficult to deal with the schedule mismatch. But then they also say that it's also difficult because they are soul-crushingly _tired_ all the time.

See <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1464142> and <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=652650>

<comment><USER22> Well, the Steve Pavlina account you linked backs up what I said. If you skip to the end:

" _First off, let me say that I didn't decide to stop for health reasons. To my recollection I didn't get sick even once while sleeping polyphasically, not even a cold. My energy and alertness were excellent once I made it through the adaptation period. A lot of people asked me about weight training and exercise — I didn't have any problems there either. My recovery after workouts was just fine. Perhaps the post-workout nap had a positive effect._ "

and

" _The #1 reason I decided to call it quits is simply that the rest of the world is monophasic. If most of the world was polyphasic, I probably would have stuck with it. Obviously when you go polyphasic, you fall out of sync with the way other people live. ..._ "

See also [http://www.puredoxyk.com/index.php/2006/11/01/an-attack- on-p...](http://www.puredoxyk.com/index.php/2006/11/01/an-attack-on- polyphasic-sleep/)

I haven't read a huge amount of accounts, but I've read one or two others besides Steve Pavlinas and they seemed to match up. I am no expert though and certainly don't want to claim that its a good idea, just because I've read three or four accounts online that said so. Especially since I cannot prove for sure that they are true.

" _they are soul-crushingly tired all the time_ "

I have only heard people who haven't tried it say this. But I won't argue the case, because I haven't tried it either.

<comment><USER23> _I have only heard people who haven't tried it say this._

I've read some reports from people who are tired all the time because they haven't "adjusted" - and the punchline is they never will. I think Pavlina's and others are in denial; while the social aspect is obviously negative, it gives them a convenient excuse. If there the only downside was not having a schedule that worked with the rest of society, there would be someone, somewhere who would not have done it, but would _being doing it_. But there isn't, because that's not how sleep, for us, works.

<comment><USER22> Sure. We would expect more people doing it if it worked. That guy on reddit who tried it recently suddenly stopped posting after 5 days, so that doesn't help my argument either :)

I don't know though. I certainly appreciate what you're saying, I guess I want to believe you're wrong, but I have no evidence either way. Maybe I should try it myself to see if it works haha.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> "P.V.T. is tedious but simple if you've been sleeping well. It measures the sustained attention that is vital for pilots, truck drivers, astronauts. Attention is also key for focusing during long meetings; for reading a paragraph just once."

I can't say how true that is when you're doing a ton of email all day or research, and its more a function of the sum total of small delays in re- reading that build up over the course of an entire day. Contrasted with a day when your mind is so clear that you require no re-reading, it feels like you are so much more productive.

Additional sleep links:

1\. Sleep: How to hack your brain (<http://www.dustincurtis.com/sleep.html>)

2\. The 4-Hour Body: Engineering better sleep ([http://techcocktail.com/book- preview-the-4-hour-body-enginee...](http://techcocktail.com/book-preview- the-4-hour-body-engineering-better-sleep-2010-12))

<comment><USER23> <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1464142>

</comment></comment><comment><USER25> I wonder how long it takes to recover from the decreased performance.

When I was in high school, I could pull an all nighter with ease to take care of an assignment (or to finish a Legend of Zelda game in one straight playing session).

Now, in grad school, I needed to pull an all nighter recently and found that I just couldn't do it anymore. I hadn't pulled an all nighter in years and it just seemed to be vastly harder than it used to be.

It is too bad the study didn't attempt to see how much sleep was necessary to recover. Would have been nice to know how long the residual effects from decreased sleep lasts. It is now a full week since the end of my semester and I still feel abnormally tired.

</comment><comment><USER26> I can tell if I've slept less than 8 hours; I can barely function with anything less than 7; add 30-60 minutes if I've exercised intensely the previous day.

The report makes it seem like even if people don't realize it, their performance suffers. I've always been jealous of those that could seemingly sleep for however much time was convenient but not anymore!

</comment><comment><USER27> I've completely stopped going without sleep this since the last semester ended. Of course, we'll see if we last through the next semester...

The thing I've noticed is that I have way more free time than I thought I did, because I wasn't explicitly thinking about things in terms of "hmm, I have five hours before bed, I should probably do X".

Also, melatonin supplements are my friend. :)

<comment><USER28> "I've completely stopped going without sleep this since the last semester ended"

That is a lie.

<comment><USER29> You are misunderstanding the sentence. He means that he no longer skips sleeping.

There is no reason to assume he is lying about this.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER30> Interesting article, but the results don't reflect the performance of those who have adapted to alternative sleep schedules in the long term. The article states that subjects were to maintain their sleep schedule for two weeks. I reckon that any sudden shift in sleep schedules would have a good chance of causing fatigue. A more interesting experiment would be to see how those with alternative sleep schedules that have practiced them in the long term compare to those with 8 a day schedules.

</comment><comment><USER31> It would have been really interesting to see if power naps had any effect on the performance of the subjects that were deprived of sleep.

My personal experience is that 15 minutes in the horizontal position improves my awareness and performance. An additional hack is to drink an espresso the moment before you take your power nap - the effect of the caffeine will kick in in about 15 minutes after consumption.

<comment><USER32> Or the "siesta" style of sleep generally. That is, the pattern of having a nap in the day and a shorter nighttime sleep.

<comment><USER33> I've tried a bi-phasic sleep cycle (2 short sleep cycles; 3-4 hours a "day" each time, with a 3-6 hour wake cycle in between) for a few weeks. It worked well enough for me, but with a 10 year old at home, I just couldn't make the timing work out.

I'm one that needs at least 8 hours a night; 9 is better.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER34> Strangely enough, I've found that since I increased my caffeine intake (to around 900-1200mg/day via energy drinks) I've been sleeping great. I usually go to sleep around 10pm, wake up naturally around 3am, and take a 1 hour nap around 3 pm. I've been drinking a lot of water as well, and I've had no problems focusing on work. I think the nap is the key though.

<comment><USER35> How has 900-1200mg/day worked out for you? I considered it a lot when I was doing 500-600mg/day.

<comment><USER34> Pretty good, it's basically a max of 4 Engage energy drinks, or 2 of them and a mix of Nos or Monster. I don't feel jittery at all, but I do get a headache if I don't get any caffeine within a few hours of waking up.

I used to get a little heart weirdness (a weird beat once in a while), but I've cut down smoking to 1 or 2 cigarettes per day and started drinking more water and the heart weirdness has stopped happening.

<comment><USER9> At what point is the physical need for an artificial substance considered an addiction? Not criticizing, just honestly wondering.

<comment><USER34> Probably when it causes withdrawal symptoms?

<comment><USER36> As in the headache ? Isn't that a sign of withdrawal symptoms ?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER37> I have always suspected that I need more sleep than other people. When I tried to live without alarm clock I slept for 9-10 hours every night. It seems to be an enormous waste of time so I usually schedule an alarm after 8 hours.

It never occurred to me that one can measure whether the amount of sleep received is right. I just downloaded PEBL (<http://pebl.sourceforge.net/>), an open source software that includes the P.V.T. test (mentioned in the article) in its battery -- an you can adjust lots of test parameters simply by editing ppbt.pbl. Seems to be working fine (though the test itself is boring and tedious). I'll measure few times a day and try whether 8 vs 10 hours makes a difference in my case.

</comment><comment><USER38> I try to sleep little over 8 hour and less then 9 hours, although it doesn't always happen. As the last hour of my sleep I almost always experience lucid dreams and they make my day so much better.

</comment><comment><USER39> The report is interesting and it isn't surprising that partial sleep deprivation results in a cognitive deficit.

I'd be more interested in understanding the long-term effects of insufficient sleep.

Is the cognitive deficit a temporary problem that goes away after a few days (or more of) sufficient sleep OR will sustained lack of sleep (over a long period) result in a long-term problem that persists even after the subject begins to sleep sufficiently.

<comment><USER40> Shorter lifespan: <http://health.ucsd.edu/news/2002/02_08_Kripke.html>

Grey hair: [http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2009-02/foas- nla02230...](http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2009-02/foas- nla022309.php)

<comment><USER41> weird. I've had _some_ gray (at least, some I and others could notice) since I was 18 (and quite a lot all these years later). One of my brothers is 15 and has some gray. It's not really saying _why_ the hydrogen peroxide builds up though. :/

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER42> I highly reocmmend Jmes Maas' book Power Sleep. He's a Cornell professor who's studied sleep for decades. This book opened my eyes to just how important enough sleep is. [http://www.amazon.com/Power-Sleep-Revolutionary-Prepares- Per...](http://www.amazon.com/Power-Sleep-Revolutionary-Prepares- Performance/dp/0060977604)

</comment><comment><USER40> I don't buy the seemingly arbitrary distinction that 8 hours is a good night's sleep. I know people who require 9+ hours per night (ie they appear sleep deprived if they get less than 9 for a few consecutive nights). I know one person who requires about 4 per night (not a forced four where you end up looking 10 years older than you really are after a few years).

I do like the idea of testing where your sweet spot is, though. I've never done anything like the PVT, but I've found (through Steve Pavlina's advice) that if you wake up at the same time each day, every day, and simply fall asleep when you're tired at the end of the day, you discover pretty quickly where that sweet spot is. More here: [http://www.ajkesslerblog.com/how-to-get- back-9-weeks-of-your...](http://www.ajkesslerblog.com/how-to-get-back-9-weeks- of-your-life/)

<comment><USER43> Read the article more closely. _Most_ need 8. There are some who need less, some who need more. The graph might even look like a bell curve ;)

<comment><USER44> I was a little disappointed by the article in this regard. While it's mentioned that "There is a small portion of the population — he estimates it at around 5 percent or even less — who, for what researchers think may be genetic reasons, can maintain their performance with five or fewer hours of sleep. (There is also a small percentage who require 9 or 10 hours.)" it would be very interesting to know if there is a larger than 5% group that does just fine with 6 or 7 hours of sleep.

Assuming your assumption about the distribution of "needing x hours of sleep to do well" is correct and if we assume that 5% need only 5 hours or less and the mean is at 8 hours (the article is even unclear about what those 8 hours represent so it's a wild guess at best), how large is the percentage of people needing 7.5 hours or less? (Roughly 40% if it's a normal distribution). So what the article says about "most of us" is technically correct the interesting answers for the many of us that presumably need between 5 and 8 hours of sleep is left out.

Does it make a difference in what sleep phase people are woken up (after the n hours of sleep their group gets)? I wish more money would be available for this area of research so longer and more detailed studies could be done. And better handouts for journalists.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER45> I've noticed a difference based on when I wake up. If I wake up early in the morning when it's still dark I find I am quite alert even on a few hours of sleep. If I wake up later I need the eight hours.

</comment><comment><USER46> I wonder if f.lux should have a P.V.T. test built in!

</comment><comment><USER47> I wonder when they'll stop forcing active duty military to make do with 4 hours a night.</comment>


Lego City – NYC Hudson Yards - <AUTHOR> http://www.theawl.com/2015/09/lego-city <comment><USER2> Here's an old animation of the construction of a platform over those rail yards.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAc5hkCEYFU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAc5hkCEYFU)

</comment><comment><USER3> False alarm - there's only a small paragraph at the end about Legos.

<comment><AUTHOR> Lego photos and description of the ever-evolving art installation: [http://art.thehighline.org/project/olafureliasson/](http://art.thehighline.org/project/olafureliasson/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> It really helped getting a new subway line to an inconvenient to reach part of Manhattan.

"If everything goes according to plan, the twenty-billion-dollar residential and commercial complex at Hudson Yards, stretching from West 30th to West 34th streets and from 10th to 12th Avenues, will be the largest private real estate development in United States history. "

<comment><USER5> The entire lower West side of Manhattan could use a new subway line. They originally planned to extend the 7 train southward several more stops, but they gave up on it.

<comment><USER6> I think you're confusing west Chelsea with the lower west side. We have plenty of trains down here :)

<comment><USER5> I mean everything west of 8th Ave, and north of the 14th st, so I mean both west Chelsea and Hell's kitchen / Midtown West. "Lower west side" really isn't an unambiguous region in the first place, but I agree the natural interpretation is probably south of where I meant.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> The developer of Hudson Yards has an entire office in Shanghai dedicated to selling these apartments to wealthy Chinese people. The pitch is that each apartment comes with a USA green card under the EB-5 program. Apparently they're selling like hotcakes.

<comment><AUTHOR> Do they understand the IoT data collection / surveillance "amenities"? [http://www.engadget.com/2014/05/07/hudson-yards-smart- neighb...](http://www.engadget.com/2014/05/07/hudson-yards-smart- neighborhood/), _" … New York City's first truly smart neighborhood. Or, it will be when New York University's Center for Urban Science and Progress (CUSP), a partner for the development, finishes outfitting it with sensors … This "quantified community" is a real-life urban laboratory for connected living, and its future, deep-pocketed residents will be its well-kept lab rats."_.

Artist renderings of the site: [http://ny.curbed.com/archives/2015/08/19/go_inside_hudson_ya...](http://ny.curbed.com/archives/2015/08/19/go_inside_hudson_yards_nycs_inprogress_new_neighborhood.php)

<comment><USER8> > Air quality, noise levels, energy and water usage

This is not the surveillance you should worry about.

<comment><AUTHOR> Sensor technology is improving rapidly and improved sensors will be easy to deploy once the buildings and rooms are designed for monitoring and data collection.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


DHS to Raise Fees Significantly for Many Immigration Benefits - <AUTHOR> https://www.uscis.gov/news/news-releases/uscis-adjusts-fees-to-help-meet-operational-needs <comment><USER2> OP modified the title</comment>


GDPR: noyb.eu filed four complaints against Google, FB, Whatsapp, Instagram - <AUTHOR> https://noyb.eu/ <comment><USER2> The odd thing is that lots of companies are abusing forced consent, but Google isn't one of them from what I've seen. Instead it's mostly publications like the Washington Post, Forbes, and Fortune just to name the last three I encountered this on. Google seems quite happy to let you refuse to let them use your personal information for ad targetting or any kind of personalisation of results and continue using their services, whereas a lot of publications just plain won't let you view their site unless you agree to this.

<comment><USER3> Because Google needs the reputation. And if publications like Washington Post, Forbes, Fortune do it on behalf of Google, because ultimately what they deploy is Google Analytics, Google Tag Manager, Google Ads and so forth, then that's a double win for Google.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> So what exactly is the overall outcome that people (in the support camp) are expecting from GDPR? Obviously targeted content and advertising is not going to stop. But maybe the 0.01% of the population that wants to opt-out of targeting or download their data can (BTW most of this was already possible with most big players)? And they want this at the cost of much higher cost of compliance for hobbyists and startups? And what does all this mean in terms of net gain to society?

<comment><USER5> GDPR would have been a sensible regulation if it only applied to large companies. With respect to complaints against Facebook and Google, I have no qualms.

<comment><USER6> As a small business owner, I disagree - _all_ businesses should be mindful of their user's privacy.

<comment><USER5> Regulatory interactions are inherently costly. It doesn't matter if you do everything correctly. People will mis-understand and file complaints; you'll need lawyers earlier than otherwise. This inhibits business formation. For large companies, whose data represents the greatest systemic threat, I think the trade-off is worth it. For smaller companies, having an EU lawyer on staff is not.

<comment><USER6> > you'll need lawyers earlier than otherwise

The EU is not the USA - the majority of small businesses will never need a lawyer at all!

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> GDPR could end free internet services. Maybe it is the outcome that the EU desires, I'm not sure, but I don't see how you can run non-transactional, free services without monetizing them via the best possible advertising. Do they want everyone to go back to punch-the-monkey and mortgage ads exclusively?

<comment><USER8> Free services existed before megatracking. Advertisements will go back to being targeted contextually, which will raise the value of views on "Tom's Train Fan Web Hub (and camera reviews)" at the expense of "Zuckerberg's Universal Website for Everyone." Look at Duck Duck Go for an example of advertising that is contextualized only with the current page, as opposed to the entirety of your personal history.

<comment><USER9> I don't remember anyone running services with offerings similar to e.g. Gmail back then without income from targeted advertising. Back then, my mailbox had 10 MB capacity while Gmail offered 1 GB thanks to the money from advertising.

<comment><USER8> The current state of your mailbox seems like a good corpus for memory-less targeting. Other than your emails, which the email provider obviously has to store, no personal information would have to be kept. As a result I'm not sure that the GDPR would impede Gmail, except to make it more valuable by increasing the scarcity of having that much data in one place.

<comment><USER9> I wasn't talking about email harvesting. It was their targeted ad income in general that made it possible to bootstrap this service at the beginning and then make use of the e-mail data to further improve their otherwise free offering.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> For the proponents of GDPR, do you think that these are good ideas? edit: Why? What's the argument for them?

> The GDPR prohibits such forced consent and any form of bundling a service > with the requirement to consent

> a penalty of 4% of global revenue

edit: On the first, if companies use (for example) personalized ads to pay for the service, why should they be forced to provide the service without the source of funding? If you disagree with that, you can just not use the service.

<comment><USER11> Not all business models are legal. If the companies don't want to abide by the rules of the EU, they can opt not provide services to people in the EU.

<comment><USER10> > Not all business models are legal.

But why make this one illegal?

We can make wedding planners illegal if we don't like them and then just say "not all business models are legal.

But that doesn't explain why. Why stop people from engaging in a transaction that both sides consider to be a win?

<comment><USER12> Because "in the EU, personal information cannot be conceived as a mere economic asset: according to the case law of the European Court of Human Rights, the processing of personal data requires protection to ensure a person's enjoyment of the right to respect for private life and freedom of expression and association".

[https://edps.europa.eu/sites/edp/files/publication/16-09-23_...](https://edps.europa.eu/sites/edp/files/publication/16-09-23_bigdata_opinion_en.pdf)

<comment><USER10> It's a little unclear to me how this answers the question. Can you connect the dots here?

I don't think not giving you services if you don't opt in violates your "enjoyment of the right to respect for private life..."

Are you saying that you shouldn't be allowed to trade use of your personal information for services?

If not, how does your quote tie in?

<comment><USER12> _Are you saying that you shouldn 't be allowed to trade use of your personal information for services?_

That's the principle behind the GDPR, yes.

<comment><USER13> No. You are still allowed to do that, but you have to explicitly opt-in.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> What happens when a GDPR claim is dismissed by a court? Are the plaintiffs required to compensate the defendants? Can Facebook/Google counter-sue for damages?

What's stopping anyone from randomly filing GDPR claims against every other website? How many such claims can the system handle at any given time before succumbing to years-long queues?

<comment><USER15> There's no court case here yet.

In these 4 cases they have been reported to the regulator. For 3 of them the reports will be passed to the regulator in Eire as that's where they have an EU presence.

So if it is "dismissed" that essentially means the regulator decides no action is required. Or the regulator might decide a phone call or letter will suffice for a first offence.

Max Schrems _could_ take a case to court against Facebook or whoever, with all the usual costs, penalties and potential for appeals etc.

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> What about github? What happens if someone that have been a contributor to several projects and then says to github that they have to remove the data that is in those repositories. However they just cannot go in and erase history in companies repos?

<comment><USER17> There are a number of exceptions to the Right to be Forgotten provisions.

<comment><USER16> The exceptions are if there is an different law that supersedes GDPR. However none of them are indefinitely so sooner or later GDPR will apply.

<comment><USER17> From Article 17, Right to erasure ('right to be forgotten') [0], "the controller shall have the obligation to erase personal data without undue delay where one of the following grounds applies: (a) the personal data are no longer necessary in relation to the purposes for which they were collected or otherwise processed;

If one can argue the personal data _is_ still necessary, e.g. for the purpose of attribution in a repo, then the controller is not obliged to erase it.

Paragraph 3 is all about exceptions including ones for freedom of expression and "establishment, exercise or defence of legal claims," e.g. copyright or other IP.

[0] [https://gdpr-info.eu/art-17-gdpr/](https://gdpr-info.eu/art-17-gdpr/)

<comment><USER16> But attribution is not permanent legal requirement it's eventually going to expire. And copyright or IP is about the owner of the repository, but not the personal information in a repository. I find it hard that "copyright" or IP applies to personal information unless you are the one owning it, which you don't if you work for a company. However it could be kind of funny if you work another company contributing to a project owned by another company.

About "defense of legal claims", removing people from the history will only strengthen your claim as the owner of the repo?

I'm not convinced that paragraph 3 actually applies here, not sure what exact claims can be done for keeping that information as it is. And can github "hide" behind such vague exceptions?

<comment><USER17> GitHub may have to add some capabilities but I'm thinking about the people running the repo; retaining attribution of submissions as a defense against accusations of code theft. I was also mainly thinking about public repos open source, not code contributions by employees in a work-for-hire situation.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> What is the process between this complaint and a fine / order to rectify?

<comment><USER18> The national agencies evaluates the complain and take a decision, which I hope will happen before the end of the year. Exactly how it happens depends on the country, as the GDPR leaves room for national legislation also on the section on the Supervisory authority.

</comment></comment><comment><USER19> can someone explain how would this make consent popups go away? I think consent popups are here to stay, what this lawsuit may change is what buttons will be on them

<comment><USER20> Since things have to be opt-in, in theory you could ignore or block all such popups and benefit from the default of not having given consent.

In practice, companies will continue to assume the opposite, and we'll see how things shake out with the regulators and courts.

It's the cornerstone behind any teeth in the GDPR.

Exciting times.

<comment><USER21> I think The Atlantic's version is a great example, with a bunch of opt-in options clearly laid out. In the end the rest will probably end up looking more or less like that, or go down in much-deserved flames.</comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: Why making something people want is so hard? - <AUTHOR> It could be that I need a new perspective, but my impression is that making / finding something people want is really hard. Even if you forget about making money.
Not sure which examples to give to back my point - let's say you make a car and sell it cheap. Still initially no one will trust the car is worth anything. It'll take years of making better cars than competition before reputation is established. With this in mind I tend to buy products / services from companies on the rise that need to prove themselves rather than companies "monetising their reputation". cough VW cough
I'm currently reading "Masters of Doom: How Two Guys Created an Empire and Transformed Pop Culture" and it strikes me how easy it was to sell a game back then. Like there was much more demand than supply so people would buy anything.
Nowadays just about any market is covered / commoditised by a big corporation. And it's never the case that they are maxed out on production capacity.
My impression is that much more supply of everything and people already have everything they need / want and more.
Can someone who witnessed the tech revolution of the last 20 years say if it was any different at any point? Was it ever obvious what people need and "if you build it, they will come"? <comment><USER2> Look at all the _categories_ of goods you have available. You can have virtually any furniture, clothes, jewelery, stationary or mobile electronics, craft and hobby tools, transportation, food, books, or services of various sorts. You can fill up your leisure with so many possible activities that it may become very hard to find something you really enjoy, something that hits the spot and allows you to stop searching.

And now image you have a new product or service. This product will need to compete for _attention_ of your potential customers with everything else that is so sexy already and what they already know. How do you get it through to their awareness?

You can also try to make something actually useful. Something that is needed for something, like cheaper technology for producing plastics, or to mine titanium as efficiently as iron is now, or allows to launch medium-scale production in a garage with $10k worth of equipment. This seems to be much easier way than to compete with luxury distractions we have. But, of course, you need to have an executable idea for a real need out there.</comment>