Emptiness is one of the core philosophies of MUJI design - <AUTHOR> http://ny.racked.com/archives/2010/11/04/the_superman_and_batman_of_japanese_design_come_together_to_talk_muji.php

<comment><USER2> Kenya Hara is one of my favourite designers. Designing Design is of my personal top 5 business books. He really thinks long term and about quality, rather than making a quick buck which appeals to me.

My advice to all HN readers, forget the 37signals/internet self help books and order designing design.

<comment><AUTHOR> I can't upvote you enough.

One of the questions most often asked is: How do I become a better web designer?

The answer is to get inspiration from sources outside of the Internet. Design books that talk about theory will do more for oneself in the longrun than more CSS galleries.

<comment><USER2> Now I can't upvote you enough.

"The answer is to get inspiration from sources outside". There was a figher pilot in the 60's through 90's who proved very formally that this is the case. Life and death, creation, and existence (and modern military theory) is based on pulling inspiration from the outside.

Destruction and creation [http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.168...](http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.168.5267&rep=rep1&type=pdf)</comment></comment></comment>


Britain just decriminalised online game piracy - <AUTHOR> http://www.vg247.com/2014/07/22/britain-just-decriminalised-online-game-piracy/ <comment><USER2> > Figures recently published by Ofcom said that nearly a quarter of all UK > downlaods [sic] were of pirated content.

Also from that Ofcom report :

> The research also showed that those who pirate content were likely to spend > more money on legal downloads. Over a three month period piraters spent £26 > compared to £16 from those who refrained from infringing copyright.

> 1.5 billion downloads of media that infringes copyright

So if that's nearly a quarter then over 4.5 billion downloads per year of media are copyright free or paid for in the UK with an online population of over 50 million - 90 such downloads per person per year - one free/paid for d/l every 4 days and 1 "illegal" d/l every 12 days.

Also consider that people download far more "illegal" files than they actually end up using.</comment>


Ask HN: Where to find YC backed companies(active/existed) - <AUTHOR> <comment><USER2> [https://www.ycombinator.com/companies/](https://www.ycombinator.com/companies/)</comment>


Ask HN: Braintree (payments gateway) alternative for startups outside the US? - <AUTHOR>

Braintree is an excellent solution for American companies. We want to introduce paid accounts for our (currently low-volume) web app. Does anyone know what we can use, other than Paypal? <comment><USER2> Here are previous threads :)

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=948036>

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=526517>

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=432284>

<comment><USER3> None of those threads deal with services that serve international customers.

Oft-mentioned services like Chargify, CheddarGetter and Spreedly have limited international support. Often it's difficult to determine the extent of the support, and I have been searching through support forums to find out what I need.

CheddarGetter, for example, supports "all currencies" (their claim) and a number of international gateways and merchant accounts, but does not offer any languages other than English. So they didn't think that one through.

Recurly has several languages, but does not offer any template system for their hosted payment pages, so no custom translation is possible. (None of the other services I have mentioned support templating, either.)

My experience, from dealing with 5-6 different SaaS billing vendors, is that it's as though globalization hasn't happened yet. All the current SaaS billing vendors are US companies who have no clue about the rest of the world.

There are international-friendly non-SaaS vendors, but they have web pages built from stock photos of soulless, snappily-dressed consultants (eg., <http://www.wirecard.com/>) and the only way to sign up is to call them and talk to a sales person.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> We're in Canada, have looked at Braintree and couldn't get a merchant account going either with them or their only partner for Canada. Turned around and looked at Beanstream for Merchant Account + Gateway, so far excellent service and product. Gateway not as neat as Braintree's Transparent Redirect but better than almost anything we've looked at.

</comment><comment><USER5> There's SaaSy, which works with vendors in most every country and unlike the others is all-inclusive. Order pages are translated into 20 languages and end users can pay in Euros, USD, CAD, Yen, AUD, Pound, etc. VAT is managed for vendors as part of the service.

</comment><comment><USER6> It depends on how you want to charge for your web app. Check out Willet (<http://www.getwillet.com>).

[Full disclosure: I'm a Willet co-founder.]

<comment><USER3> \- Web page says "US and Canada" only.

\- The FAQ says that "Willet is a super fast and simple way to buy digital goods and services". Surely you are targeting developers, ie. the seller, so you should tell us that Willet is a super blah blah way to _sell_ digital goods and services?

\- Willet seems designed for very small transactions and has no support for subscriptions.

\- Your site does not tell me how I, as a seller, gets the money. Surely that's at least half of the point of services such as Braintree -- ie., the merchant account.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> Chargify.com supports many international merchant accounts.

</comment><comment><USER8> Which country are you located in?

<comment><AUTHOR> Israel

<comment><USER9> By far your easiest option would be use Tranzila, or one of the similar services.

That - or just use PayPal WPP.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Bitcoin :-D</comment>


Symantec's Bad Week - <AUTHOR> http://blog.appcanary.com/2016/vikhal-symantec.html <comment><USER2> We need ways to run "antivirus" software with fewer privileges. One way to do this is what some DoD high-security systems call "guards" and "sanitizers". When files come in from the outside, they're diverted to a jail, where something has to examine them and decide whether they can get through, and what changes have to be made to them. The guard and sanitization software runs jailed or on a separate machine - it has few privileges. All it can do is look at files and say yes or no, or remove something from the file.

There's a need for a division of labor here. The downloading function in a browser shouldn't be allowed to look at the contents. The guard/sanitizer function shouldn't be allowed to do anything other than say yes or no, or modify the downloaded file. After processing each file, the guard/sanitizer function is flushed and reloaded, so that if it was corrupted, it can't affect other files.

<comment><USER3> Before going that far, we need a more effective way to get the vendors to care.

Symantec could have chosen to ship only the minimal filesystem interface code in the kernel and run the huge, complex inspection code in an isolated low- privilege thread, just like the Windows NT guides recommended in 1993.

Symantec could have performed basic diligence and updated their dependencies when security updates were released.

Symantec could have followed recommended practice for code auditing, fuzzing, etc.

In each case they chose not to spend the money it'd take to be minimally competent, correctly realizing that most of their customers will never check and are unlikely to change their buying habits. Based on my experience running their enterprise management tools and dealing with their support, I'm pretty sure someone just made the business decision not to spend the money because most of their customers have audit requirements to buy something and nobody else in the industry is significantly better.

<comment><USER4> There's always a better way to do things.

The problem is selling that better way.

If they had done things the way you say, their price point would have been higher, while everyone else who didn't do it is lower.

I've been in many budget meetings where Product X does A, and Product Y does A too. Both products let you put a check in the audit box. Product Y is 20% cheaper than Product X. Without a glaring fault in Product Y, nobody will spend the extra money for Product X.

The audit question is often worded: Is a centrally managed antivirus product installed on every PC? Are the definitions for the product kept up-to-date? Good! Pay us for verifying that(among other similarly useless questions) and here's your SAS70/SSAE16/SOC1 papers.

Customer says "are you audited? can I see your papers? Good. " \-- due diligence is considered done.

The people performing the audits rarely have a clue other than knowing that there's supposed to be a check in that box.

It's all a game of CYA and security theater, with very little real security being practiced.

<comment><USER3> > If they had done things the way you say, their price point would have been > higher, while everyone else who didn't do it is lower.

This statement is too strong unless they're currently running on a razor-thin profit margin and have cut every other possible source of waste in the company. We're talking about a company with 6+ billion dollars in revenue hiring a modest number of good security engineers – even if they paid them twice the industry rate, it seems unlikely that it'd need to affect the price at all, especially when you consider the long-term reduction in emergency patch releases.

You're right that it's usually theater but consider how different it could be if security really was top priority. A major vendor could turn it into a selling point by publicizing the spotlight on gaps in audit standards. All they'd need would be one big shift – finance, health care, .gov, etc. – and it'd suddenly be a selling point for them for a product release cycle in addition to being the right thing to do for their customers.

<comment> loup-vaillant > _This statement is too strong unless they 're currently running on a razor- > thin profit margin and have cut every other possible source of waste in the > company._

These days, Profit margins tend to be _maximised_. If they can make a little more profit by cutting a little more corners, they will probably do it. It takes some ethics not to maximize profits at the expense of everything else.

If you want better security, you'll have to find a way to make it more profitable for them —if not as an individual, as a community, or even as a society. If better products aren't more profitable, you'll inevitably end up with lemons.

The other path, questioning the profits paradigm altogether, is not easy.

<comment><USER3> Agreed - I don't know whether that will be insurance requirements, regulators, etc. but we have little reason to think simple market forces will work better in the future.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> I love the (military, not Zombieland) "double tap" nomenclature for follow-up phishing emails that pretend to be warnings about recent phishing emails. It's a pattern in social engineering that I've seen used a bunch, particularly in "vishing" phone calls [1], but never had a good buzzword for until now.

[1] [https://youtu.be/h8kWcggio5A](https://youtu.be/h8kWcggio5A)

</comment><comment><USER6> Is there any reason for a Windows user to use anything other than Microsoft Security Essentials (or Defender as it's been called since Windows 8)? It's free and everything I've seen and read indicates it works just as well if not better than commercial antivirus suites.

<comment><USER7> It doesn't satisfy my auditors. Who can't seem to explain why ("it's not on the list of boxes I can tick"), other than to direct us to the big four of McAfee/Sophos/Kaspersky/Symantec.

<comment><USER8> Also some versions of ssl vpns scan your computer and I'm not sure if all of them accept the built in MS antivirus.

(Protip: run such connections in a VM. This has a number of benefits:

* when they require a full scan it takes next to no time as the vm is almost empty

* when they cut off the rest of your network except for their site you can still reach google or your company server in the host machine.

* who honestly wants to run all those weird drivers on their day-to-day dev or sysadmin machine?

)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> From SecurityWeek's writeup on the same topic [1]:

 _No interaction is required to trigger the exploit. In fact, when Ormandy sent his PoC to Symantec, the security firm's mail server crashed after its product unpacked the file._

[1]: [http://www.securityweek.com/critical-vulnerability- symantec-...](http://www.securityweek.com/critical-vulnerability-symantec-av- engine-can-be-exploited-sending-email)

<comment><AUTHOR> The source for that detail is here: [https://bugs.chromium.org/p/project- zero/issues/detail?id=82...](https://bugs.chromium.org/p/project- zero/issues/detail?id=820#c1)

> I think Symantec's mail server guessed the password "infected" and crashed > (this password is commonly used among antivirus vendors to exchange > samples), because they asked if they had missed a report I sent.

> They had missed the report, so I sent it again with a randomly generated > password.

I'm not 100% sure I buy it. The follow up comment is about how he had mistakenly sent them a wrong testcase, and he had sent them similar exploits in a zip with the password infected before (see [https://bugs.chromium.org/p/project- zero/issues/detail?id=81...](https://bugs.chromium.org/p/project- zero/issues/detail?id=810) from April 28th).

It would be incredible for Symantec to guess the password "infected" for ZIP files. It's possible though!

<comment><USER10> "infected" is the industry standard. IIRC (could be making this up) gmail knows to try "infected" in password protected zips.

<comment><AUTHOR> Yeah I'm just surprised it's going to be scanning zips with the industry standard malware password for ... malware.

<comment><USER11> If it didn't, malware devs could just send malware zipped in a password protected folder with that password and tell users to enter that password to unzip.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> >"These vulnerabilities reminded me of phishing and the Double Tap for two reasons. First, every one of these vulns can be exploited by just sending an email. Since the product is an antivirus, so it's going to scan every file that touches your disk and every email you get for viruses. You don't have to get your target to click a link or even open the message you sent — Symantec will happily try to parse every email you receive."

Another reason not to run any "antivirus" on your personal PC

<comment><USER13> Wow. I've always been very against anti virus but never actually thought of this aspect. The anti virus itself is a huge attack surface, probably with higher risk than the risks it can mitigate. Sigh.

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> So, do the "stop what you're doing and upgrade" links in the article actually go to Symantec's site, or are they phishing links? Because that would be a perfect example of the type of highly effective phishing the article is talking about.

<comment><USER15> My finger hovered over the reply button for a second as I weighed up the possibility that HN was part of an elaborate long-game attack vector!

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> For anyone who doesn't know the title is a pun on [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/PiHKAL](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/PiHKAL)

<comment><USER17> Next thing you know they will be self administering their own 0-day exploits.

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> Footnote 1 _is_ very interesting (and so is the rest of the post):

> You know, it's interesting that before I became the CEO of a startup, the > only time I thought about "conversion rates" of emails in my career was when > I was involved in phishing campaigns.

Edit: It's interesting to me that phishers are evil bad etc., and yet more interested in responding well to the rhetorical situation than people with careers.

<comment><USER5> Perhaps malware vendors will soon begin content-marketing to increase engagement with their target markets!

<comment><USER19> Symantec has been doing that very successfully it seems

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> fixed that:

"tl;dr: If you use software with "Symantec" or "Norton" somewhere in its name, stop what you're doing and remove it completely."

</comment><comment><USER21> I think everyone is confused because they don't understand Symantec's business model.

They're primarily a rent-collecting entity that leverages the requirements of regulating industries like PCI as a way to tax businesses.

That why all these simple logical steps to make their product better aren't (and won't be) implemented.</comment>


Elon Musk on recruiting: "Anyone who struggled with a problem never forgets it." - <AUTHOR> http://blog.entelo.com/are-you-recruiting-like-elon-musk-spacex-ceo-reveals-his-hiring-secrets

<comment><USER2> _When you struggle with a problem, that 's when you understand it...if someone was really the person that solved it, they'll be able to answer multiple levels, they'll be able to go down to brass tax._

I probably have struggled many times before successfully solving a problem, but I'd have difficulties coming up with an example of this in an interview.

I can't even judge what's difficult and what's not. The root of most problems is missing knowledge, and once I completely understand something, it seems clear to me.

</comment><comment><USER3> He's got one thing right:

       he makes it clear that skill is not enough.
       Yes, it is the first box a candidate needs
       to check ...

I agree with this. Unfortunately, at many companies skill is the _last_ thing people look for (just a mild exaggeration). Everything else is more important. The fundamental question of "can he do the job?" is only relevant after eliminating candidates who aren't perceived as "team players", or are too old, or don't have all the right buzzwords on their resume.

<comment><AUTHOR> I think you're right, given this do you suppose the assessment process is backwards?</comment></comment>


If your GPS device told you to drive off a cliff, would you do it? - <AUTHOR> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120578983252543135.html?mod=hpp_us_autos

<comment><USER2> I work in this industry.

The article mentioned trucks being sent into residential areas (or through tunnels/bridges that weren't meant for them). Google maps doesn't know what type of vehicle you're driving, but if you bought a vehicle with a navigation device factory-installed, then (at least for newer models), it does know, and any decent (and recent!) in-vehicle device won't send, for example, a commercial truck through a road not classed for it.

You also (again, with any sane, recent device) won't be routed through unpaved or construction roads. The device might not even be loaded with those non- routes.

Another consideration is, whether the maps were installed in the factory, or whether the device goes online to pull more recent maps (the obvious trade- offs apply), real road conditions, lane closures, detours, etc., happen faster and more ephemerally than any data provider can or will update their source data.

When driving, always use your eyes and your brain. No device, however useful as an aide to navigation, can substitute for them.

<comment><USER3> Are you implying the article might have cherry picked examples to be more sensationalist?

<comment><USER2> No, these are real issues, but the navigation device market is highly competitive, and a lot of these things have been getting fixed very fast in newer models.

I repeat the caveat to always trust your own eyes and brain over any machine.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> My brother-in-law calls his Garmin "the girlfriend" Sometimes she is right and sometimes he has to ignore her sexy British accented commands. "Recalculating coordinates"

</comment><comment><USER5> One of my friends _always_ follows his GPS navigation system, even if he knows it's wrong.

In particular, there's this one point on a freeway where the freeway signs clearly indicate the correct route, but his GPS always tells him something else. Without fail, he follows the GPS directions, which tell him to exit the freeway and almost immediately get back on the freeway.

It drives me _nuts_.

<comment><USER6> Just wondering, did he receive very high marks in school?

<comment><USER2> Almost certainly so, considering his tendency towards unthinking obedience... ;)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> I had a GPS tell me to drive through a field in rural Germany once. Evidently, the two ruts going through the field were, technically a road and did get me where I was going.

I've also had various GPS units tell me to drive off the side of bridges, in to concrete walls and on train tracks.

</comment><comment><USER8> That depends, is my wife nagging at me at the time?

</comment><comment><USER9> haha the office (us), when they drive into the lake...

</comment><comment><USER10> uh, no. i would not do it.</comment>


Can a Startup issue a SAFE for non-cash benefit? - <AUTHOR> I incorporate a Delaware C-corp and would like to engage an offshore company to develop the technology. Since I do not have cash to pay them, I offer them a standard YC post-money SAFE for say $50K. Then for the 'Purchase Amount' I sign another agreement with them, that I will purchase engineering services from them for the $50K.<p>So I do not exchange cash. But bottom line, I offer them payment via stock with a standard SAFE. Is this possible? <comment><USER2> I don't see why not, but be sure you are actually getting $50k worth of engineering services. That seems super-risky. There's a whole population of weird bottom feeders that try to snag equity in early companies by promising the moon to founders and once they have a contract not delivering much if anything. I don't know if these creatures make any money but they do leave a trail of messy crap in cap tables that real investors don't like.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thank you. My question was more about if it was required by any means that the 'Purchase Amount' should be deposited to a bank account first etc for a SAFE to be recognized as legal and issued. Actually the offshore company is under my control, so I have no worries on it, but since it will actually need to spend money to hire and pay engineering team to develop the technology but IP needs to be given to the US based startup to secure funding later on

<comment><USER3> that's yucky. you're messing up your cap table (the equity is just going to yourself) to avoid patriating money to avoid paying taxes. for the paltry sum of $50k. just give the company a personal loan.

it's way too early to start financial engineering.

<comment><USER4> I would not say that it is yucky, it is not that uncommon to see in startup incubators a part of their "standard deal" is a whole bunch of services provided at retail cost to the startup and to be paid later. This is often how lawfirms take risk in startups, they structure it as 200K in legal services and I've seen its expressed as a claim on their captable.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Zombie bees leave the hive at night - <AUTHOR> http://wtvr.com/2012/09/25/zombie-bees-discovered/ <comment><USER2> I've only read news about this from bad sources and this one did not clarify my misconceptions either. Someone who has read better news than I, please set me straight on this simple thing.

Are the "zombie" bees in question: 1) Undead creatures or 2) Normal bees that been infected by a parasite and acting against their nature?

In other words, is there a parasite that causes dead bees to come to life? Or is the "zombie" metaphor used to indicate that they don't really have a will and mind of their own?

I feel really stupid asking this, but all the news I've read have been incredibly badly written. You can only imagine how bad the Finnish translations of this news have been, given the quality of the original English articles.

<comment><USER3> It appears to be a parasite taking control of the host.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocephalus_borealis>

[http://news.discovery.com/animals/parasite-bees- zombies-0105...](http://news.discovery.com/animals/parasite-bees- zombies-010512.html)

<comment><USER2> Thank you, sir! I feel 1000% less stupid now.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Previously: fungus zombifies ants: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3392038> (and other stories at [http://www.hnsearch.com/search#request/all&q=zombie+ant&...](http://www.hnsearch.com/search#request/all&q=zombie+ant&start=0) )

Unlike the seemingly-confused bees in this story, the mind-controled ants exhibit very specific behavior, resulting in them ending up on very specific part of plant and in specific relation to sunlight and local humidity.

[edit]

<http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pdf/1472-6785-11-13.pdf> seems to be a shorter version of a full-lenght paper I can't at this moment.

</comment><comment><USER5> > _"If you find bees on a sidewalk, or under a street light or under your > porch light, it's real simple. You take a Ziploc bag. You put the bees in. > You leave 'em set for a week and see if anything happens," he said._

Hell no ... I don't want to see a bag with dead bees exploding with parasitic zombie flies

</comment><comment><USER6> _The parasitic fly is native to North American and only recently started infecting honeybees, which were brought over from Europe._

Interesting. If the fly has evolved to infect bees, then it might take a while before the bees evolve resistance to it. Honey in America might be about to go up in price.

And how is the rest of the world making sure these American flies don't make it out of America?

<comment><USER7> Good questions. One problem is, that the number of races used for professional (and hobby) beekeeping is already very small. Mostly queens are selected for laying eggs for peaceful and prodcutive workers, not so much for hygiene (removing infected sisters) or defense-oriented (beekeepers don't like that) bees.

As a consequence the current races might not be able to evolve resistance so easily. Earlier efforts to breed European bees in combination with (I think) Japanese bees both imported to the Philippines led to the import of varroa destructor mites.

Man is not so lucky with his manipulation of nature, it seems. Or choose another word.</comment></comment>


How to Do Virtual Hosting on Google App Engine - <AUTHOR> http://thinkinghard.com/blog/HowToDoVirtualHostingOnGoogleAppEngine.html <comment><AUTHOR> TL;DR

"Virtual hosting of customer domains on a Google App Engine application is possible.

However it would appear that Google has implemented this functionality in a manner which is convenient for customers who are already using Google Apps.

If Google aims to make Google App Engine convenient for developers developing "major" applications, which may contain virtual hosting as a customer options, then they need to vastly simplify the setup procedure for virtual hosting on App Engine applications, and they need to totally remove the requirement for the customer of the App Engine application to have a Google Apps account.

And if they can't do that, they should at least allow for the possibility that a user of Google Apps is only interested in accessing App Engine apps, and that the user does not necessarily want to access any of the "standard" features of Google Apps."

<comment><USER2> Thanks for summarising this. I am disappointed of GAE for a while. Not only their services are generally very hard to use (especially datastore), but also their attitude to these issues obviously blocking others from using them.</comment></comment>


These are good female tech role models - apparently - <AUTHOR>

The UK's Evening Standard has an article tonight about women in tech [1], and as role models suggest Nicola Mendelsohn, Joanna Shields, Marissa Mayer, Dawn Airey and Sheryl Sandberg.
I am curious: how many of these are role-models for getting hands on with tech and working as a developer/scientist/engineer, vs being a high-ranking director in a management role? I do not know the women mentioned but they seem at odds with the thrust of the article.
It's a shame they didn't talk to female programmers...
1. http://www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/london-life/maggie-philbin-silicon-skirts-were-still-very-much-an-exception-8962022.html <comment><USER2> To be fair, I'd expect a lot of coverage in the news for male founders / CEOs -- Jobs, Gates, Zuckerberg, Ellison, etc... and less coverage of actual male developers.</comment>


How Amazon's New Browser Will Upend The Open Internet - <AUTHOR> http://atomictrevor.com/2011/10/25/a-web-made-of-silk/

<comment><USER2> Split browsers have been around for 15 years (Top Gun Wingman and Opera Mini come to mind), so these issues aren't exactly new, although mores about business models do seem to have changed.

The copyright issue is a non-issue since the DMCA contains a specific exception for caches (if infringing material finds its way into a cache, the original should be taken down and the cache will expire it automatically).

Modifying Web content in transit is pretty obviously illegal, so Amazon wouldn't do that.

Censorship would create quite a PR backlash once it was noticed, and people could circumvent it easily enough using local mode.</comment>


The Truth about a Failing Startup - <AUTHOR> http://pastebin.com/BgxFCTEC <comment><USER4> Been there, done that. You know what? Failure is just an event. Its not you. You havent lost your "touch", because there wasnt one to lose from the start. You just got lucky. It didnt work out. Now, understand that being average is OK, and pretty awesome too. So you didnt hit it big, but you had an average run. You did not become Instagram, but you had average sales. You made average money and had average success. Again, average is awesome. You got further down the line than most other people have (me included).

So you failed. Dont obsess about it. Tell your family the company is not working. Dont try an be a hero. Be honest, they appreciate that more (fuck them if the dont). Entrepreneurs have to meet these weird social standards that are never within reach. You think Warren Buffett has ever getting a break? He gets shit every day from deals gone sour.

But keep your head up. Failure is not you. You are a person, and you did pretty good. Your investor lost the money the minute he decided to play investor. Doesnt have to do anything with you.

If you want to talk about it with someone who fails hard every month, just send me an email (on profile). I wont make this public.

Also, dont be ashamed. You got to the NBA, but you were not Michael Jordan. Who cares? I bet you played a good game, and got some good stories from it. Best wishes!

<comment><USER5> I do believe this reply has OP's best intentions in mind, but I find it to be a bit fatalistic. OP may very well have "the touch", it just may be that this particular venture wasn't the right opportunity for that to shine through. My point is, noone can tell you how far you will or will not go in life; a single failure is a data point, sure, but only one among many. If OP wants to go on continue being an entrepreneur, he should learn from his mistakes, dust himself off, and go at it again if he can find the opportunity.

<comment><USER4> Thats what I meant, but you put it in a nicer manner. Thanks!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Hey, fellow failed entrepreneur here. My startup failed about 6-9 months ago. It was a very difficult time, our business partners went back on their promises and with that 3+ years of my life went down the drain. It was a terrible couple of months, lots of lost sleep, high blood pressure, I'm still dealing with it.

I was unemployed for a couple of months, then finally took a job at a great company, where I feel great. Things were finally picking up. I thought I was fortunate because I had my wife who supported me through it all.

Then a month ago my wife, who I thought would be my partner for life left me. Bam. You think a failing company is bad, try this. I just got thrown back to being 25 and looking for a date, sth I thought I left behind me forever. It was I hope the final price I payed for concentrating too much on my startup the preceeding years.

Lessons learned? Too many, but I'll just say this. The buddhists are right, the only constant in life is change. Shit will happen to you, whether you're rich or poor. Companies will go under. You may lose money. You will be fired from jobs. Your partner may not turn out to be who you thought she is. Somebody close to you could get sick. Your parents will die. It's just life. You have to accept these things will happen and do your best to prepare for them.

It's though, some people are much better at it than others, but it's normal if you can't get over these things in a day or week. Medicine might help (eg. sleep, anxiety), but go easy with that stuff.

Don't lie to your parents. They're your safe harbour, they will understand and help you. Tell them what's going on. I'm 32 and although it doesn't feel very manly, talking to my parents about my current situation is what's keeping me sane.

<comment><USER7> >Don't lie to your parents.

This. During a bad period, I moved in to live with my family for a couple of weeks. It helps to eat and talk together, and if you had a happy childhood, you'll feel safe and refreshed.

<comment><USER8> I agree. In late 2009 when my startup tanked and my SO left me I was in a really bad place. Having a large family (parents, but also siblings) really helped me stay sane.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Things may not be as bad as they seem.

Don't worry about the investor's money - it's called venture capital for a reason.

You've probably learned a tremendous amount from the experience.

Think about what the next step for you is after this company. Sounds like you're a developer and can easily get a well-paying job. Sounds like there is still some money left and you can take some time and decompress from the experience.

This isn't doom. It's the first step of what you're doing next.

<comment><USER10> Agreed. Part of the job of being an investor is to balance your portfolio, and losses are to be expected. Such a world doesn't exist where investments are risk free.

There are many entrepreneurs who have raised again from VCs even after they didn't make it from their first raise. As long as you tried your hardest, there isn't much else more you can do. Keep at it.

<comment><USER11> OOC, Have either of you built and lost others money from investors as well as lost your own?

<comment><USER10> When I was 25 I lost more than $20,000 of my own and FFF money investing in my own project only to have it fail. At the time I was obviously, really upset.

Fast forward to today -- looking back it was one of the greatest investments in my life so far as all the stuff I learned both emotionally, psychologically and professionally has really helped with current work and life.

I used to think losing money was a big deal, but now I realize it isn't. Investors are in a sense "buying" your time. Can you really put a value on your time? Your own life?

Sure, the memories were disappointing and frustrating, but I wouldn't have had it any other way. And yes, I plan to save and try it again.

EDIT: Just to be clear I'm not saying throw VC money around... of course you still need to be responsible.

<comment><USER11> It sounded like you supported what the original commenter said, not to worry about investors.

Having a slack attitude towards money (our own money or others) doesn't build a business or an understanding of value that ultimately ends in a revenue stream.

It's nice of you to share you story -- I don't think many folks do. I have similar experiences (good and bad), but I think the one thing that really stands out for me is that investors are in a sense "buying" your time, not much different than consulting...... :)

<comment><USER12> "investors are in a sense "buying" your time, not much different than consulting"

Brilliant. I've never heard the concept of investing in a startup phrased so well.

<comment><USER11> It was a gong moment for me too.

I think I'd be much more open to funding if it was like this because I'm used to people paying me to build ideas, it just might be my own ideas that someone else happens to agree with.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> My company has a really good chance of succeeding, but I still face these doubts every day. Here are some of the things that make the game worth the candle for me, even if we end up failing:

      * I'm proud of the product we've built. Even if it doesn't take off,
        nobody can take that away from me.

      * I'm incredibly proud of my engineering team. We're "a bunch of kids"
        who've built something incredible. Even if the company ultimately
        doesn't survive, we will have done really well.

      * I love my work and I love the people I work with. There are
        conflicts, sometimes I have to deliver bad news, deal with stress
        and monotonous work, firefight problems, etc. but in aggregate the
        work I do and the people I do it with bring me joy. I will always
        remember this time fondly.

      * When I started, I was a good engineer and a terrible product
        manager. Now I'm a good engineer and a good product manager, which
        makes me 100x more valuable. There is a bazillion other things I've
        learned, but this alone makes everything worthwhile.

      * Facing doubt every day made me face the darkest corners of my
        soul. I stopped being an obnoxious cynical windbag and started
        appreciating the nuances of life, people, art, poetry, strength of
        human spirit and true magnitude of human dignity.

      * We're taking a real shot at building hard, sustainable technology
        that has a good chance to change the world. Even if we fail, I'll
        never regret taking the chance.

      * I met hundreds of people on my path. I dismissed some of them, but
        in retrospect I've learned from them all. I appreciate humanity a
        lot more now, and I understand where the dark parts of it come from
        much better.

      * Perspective is worth 80 IQ points. If you start a company you gain a
        lot of perspective.

I could keep going, but I hope I've made my point. I'm not trying to sugar- coat anything -- failing may very well be the worst thing you've ever experienced emotionally to date. But keep everything in perspective and don't get cynical. You might still change the world in a big way. You might still change it in a small way. It doesn't matter. Enjoy the people around you. Get into adventures. Try to do something meaningful. Do the best you can -- things may not turn out how you wanted them to, but they'll probably turn out ok.

</comment><comment><USER14> Once your startup actually fails and is behind you, here's the surprise:

You will feel an immense sense of freedom and lightness.

It's pretty obvious why: a weight is about to be lifted from your shoulder. Where your path was a narrow funnel leading to one specific destination, you will now have the infinity of all possible and reachable paths ahead of you. You couldn't do anything but worry about the startup - now you can do anything you want.

The end of a start feels very dramatic before it happens, but once it's done, you will feel a whole lot better. Trust me.

<comment><USER15> Having just gone through this I concur 100%. Everything, and I mean _everything_ , now seems just a little bit more achievable. The good things in life feel better, the bad things not as bad. I smile more, and am sleeping better.

A weight has lifted, and I'm slowly regaining energy - almost feel like I might one day have enough again to start on the journey of another startup.

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> If they're professional investors, they know all the investments don't work out. Communicate honestly about what's been tried and failed, but don't ruminate excessively about having "let them down".

If 'doom' is still a month or two off, but inevitable, attempt orderly wind- down. Maybe a corporate entity is bankrupt. Maybe employees need a fair warning. Maybe there are salable assets. You can ask for help, even from strangers, even non-anonymously. It will be hard to get help if still presenting a facade of "everything's great", and since the 'doom' will be public knowledge soon enough, stop pretending. Instead, use this as practice in confronting the worst and making-do as best as possible with bad options.

<comment><USER17> came here to say what gojomo said.

treat everyone with respect, honesty, and be forthright. it'll feel awful and scary, but it'll mean a lot more than if you made everyone rich, or at least helped them with some more paychecks. people will remember your character and your behavior far more than any money you made or lost for them.

i think a lot of people forget the incredible risks and burdens founders take on. i saw a quote in inc magazine that put it best, something to the effect of "if this business goes under, you lose your job, but i lose my house and maybe even more." never having founded anything i can't imagine the burden your under, but i know it's immense. that said, remember to be forthright with everyone.

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> Thanks for sharing the reality instead of writing articles like "How I started X and made Y in Z days". This is really painful to read.

This is one reason why I will never take money from an external investor. There are some scenarios when you definitely need an investor's help. But right now, the trend is almost like "it's a cool factor to seek investment for your startup".

The problem with taking money from someone else is that, you become obligated/answerable to them. Remember, we all start-up because we don't want to go down the traditional working-for-a-corporate route, because we don't want to be answerable/obey no one/their orders. But seeking investment (in most cases) just defeats this purpose of starting up.

Why the hell would someone want to be answerable to a third party for running YOUR company in YOUR way?? And what happens when that company fails? You need to either apologize/console the investor that you will somehow get back his money. Contrast this with having no investors at all, worst case scenario would be you lost all your money. But that's much better than losing someone else's.

I find nothing wrong in trying to build an Saas that generates $10000-$50000 a month in revenue from day one, without external investment, instead of seeking millions in investment for a bunch of photo filters on a phone only to later worry about monetizing the idea.

<comment><USER19> > "The problem with taking money from someone else is that, you become > obligated/answerable to them."

Could not disagree more. I co-founded and am the CEO of a funded company. Investors (at least professional ones, which, if you have a good company, you can vet them as much or more as they vet you to make sure they are professional!) will encourage you, meet with you, and even help you work through problems and issues. But by no means are you obligated to do anything that they say. In fact, most would prefer that if you have market data that disagrees with them, you go with what the market says--after all, you are the expert in this space, not they...

> "And what happens when that company fails? You need to either > apologize/console the investor that you will somehow get back his money."

No, on typical seed round investments (and even Series A and above), you do not owe the investors back their money. There's not even a moral obligation to pay them back--they understand the risks, and as others have stated above in the comments, if this loss was going to make them destitute, they should absolutely not ever have been investing in your round. (Which is why you should be doing the due diligence on them as much or more as they were on you, before they invested.)

Getting investors and pitching, etc. was really scary for me. But once I found the right people, I realized how awesome it was. They have a (small) financial interest in me, so I can ask them honest questions and get answers from their perspective. It is a blessing and it has helped me run my company better than I ever would have without investors.

</comment></comment><comment><USER20> You failing is part of your investors business model. They've moved on, they no longer care.

This sounds like a negative statement, but it actually has extremely positive repercussion: you no longer have to worry about them AND you have a few months to do whatever you want. Anything. Have fun and enjoy it. Maybe build something cool, completely new, something that you want to see exist in the world. And you never know, just letting go of the burden, accepting that what's done is done, and enjoying creating something for fun may actually lead to something.

See: <http://www.physics.ohio-state.edu/~kilcup/262/feynman.html>

</comment><comment><USER21> The point about taking other people's money is a big one. I am in the process of starting a business doing cloud computing for accounting and ERP and we decided specifically _against_ taking other people's money. I know that will sound like heresy on HN, but I want to discuss why we made that decision. I think other founders may find this to be a useful piece in that it may confirm that taking other people's money is a good decision or it may help question that. I don't think our decision was right for everyone.

The basic issue that made us decide the way we did was that accepting VC money locks you into the VC exit strategy. This means you are building either an acquisition target or a company you want to take public. If that's what you want to do, partnering with VC's makes a lot of sense. They may help you get there faster. If you aren't sure that's what you want to do there is nothing wrong with taking the first steps on your own before committing to such a strategy.

There's a second issue too, which is what I call "overfunding syndrome." The basic truth is that the vast majority of businesses will fail before they succeed. If you are funding it yourself and the like you have more options than if you are racing towards the VC exit strategy gamble. This is why bootstrapping can often be a real business saver.

I suspect we could find investors if we wanted or needed to. But the fact that we don't need to at the moment and aren't sure we want to lock ourselves into the acquisition-or-IPO cycle means for us the best option is keeping our options open. That doesn't preclude changing our minds down the road, but it is a lot easier to decide that "you know, maybe we could use venture capital after all" than it is to change one's mind and get out of the funding cycle. To my mind this is part of staying upstream of the larger problems.

</comment><comment><USER22> The investors are adults. They made an educated decision, and as long as you acted in good faith you have upheld your end of the bargain.

They took a risk, and my sense is that they are probably more aware of how the game is played than you do yourself. How many startups have they invested in? How many do you think have failed?

This is probably _incredibly_ difficult to internalize in the moment, but it's true. Remind yourself that the guilt is irrational.

<comment><USER23> My thoughts exactly! ...and Paul Graham's too as it seems, as it must be also the thoughts of every realistic investitor. This is a high bet and if that failed antrepreneur is sincere and acted in good faith, it still stays as a candidate future investment in my book (considering also the fact that he must have some experience after his first enterprise).

</comment></comment><comment><USER24> If

      If you can keep your head when all about you
      Are losing theirs and blaming it on you;
      If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
      But make allowance for their doubting too:
      If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
      Or, being lied about, don't deal in lies,
      Or being hated don't give way to hating,
      And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise;

      If you can dream---and not make dreams your master;
      If you can think---and not make thoughts your aim,
      If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
      And treat those two impostors just the same:.
      If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
      Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
      Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
      And stoop and build'em up with worn-out tools;

      If you can make one heap of all your winnings
      And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
      And lose, and start again at your beginnings,
      And never breathe a word about your loss:
      If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
      To serve your turn long after they are gone,
      And so hold on when there is nothing in you
      Except the Will which says to them: "Hold on!"

      If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
      Or walk with Kings---nor lose the common touch,
      If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
      If all men count with you, but none too much:
      If you can fill the unforgiving minute
      With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
      Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
      And---which is more---you'll be a Man, my son!

Rudyard Kipling

<comment><USER25> Powerful poem. Love it!

<comment><USER26> Read about what happened to Kipling's son before you believe too much in it.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> Fuck them. Don't let it ruin your life. It was a gamble and they knew it. No risk. No reward. If it were a sure thing, credit unions would be giving cash. If they were investing their retirement funds, that's their issue, not yours.

I'm sure you worked hard. Tried your best. What else can you do. If it's over, move on and get out of the current gig now. Tomorrow even. It sounds like your investors already have.

You've made sacrifices as well. Call them tomorrow, thank them for what they did, shut the door and open a new one.

</comment><comment><USER28> This is why I fundamentally don't like investments. This is why profitability is king. Not users, not revenues, nothing except profits! This is why self funding is so important.

In life there is a right way to do things and a wrong way. The 37 signals (bootstrap) model is the proper way to do web business. Taking other people's money is the wrong way.

To author: Dude, you probably care more than the investors. Make it into a good thing, raise awareness on why the investing model should be approached with trepidation and skepticism. Then move on.

<comment><USER29> _ugh_

Maybe...maybe not. Sometimes capitalization is what your business really needs. Sometimes it isn't. I can provide a whole list of "web businesses" that bootstrapped to profitability, but I can come up with an equally impressive list of companies took really significant capital. I can certainly find businesses that would have not succeeded without the capital to sustain them through their early years (I experienced that first hand) ahead of their ultimate success.

Smart entrepreneurs know how to be strategic with their fundraising. They know when to take money, and (just as importantly) when not to. They know that at key moments a capital infusion can propel a company to big growth. They know that at the wrong moment money can be the distraction that keeps them from executing.

I have a huge issue with your post. You're wrong. Experience has shown me that funding can be a huge asset, except when it's not. It's what makes entrepreneurship so incredibly difficult. Funding, and the way you pursue it, are really tough to choices you have to make. After which you have to live with the consequences. To reduce it to "In life there is a right way to do things..." shows a real lack of understanding of that challenge.

<comment><USER30> Second this. Bootstrapping is great, and it's even underrated. Most people raise too much too early, and it ends up hurting them. In the end VC capital is a tool though, and you can use it well.

One position from which raising money might be a good idea is when you have a product that is already scaling and shows strong product/market fit, and you know (know, not think) that going 10x on spending is going to let you grow a lot faster.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER31> "If I had failed using my own money, I could live with it. But having a team of investors believe in you, only to let them down is an incredibly difficult thing to deal with."

While I understand this completely, they also realize the same. Investments are always risky. Especially in the startup world. They know what can happen. Don't worry, it's just money, and money isn't the most important thing in life.

You haven't failed. You have learned something out from this experience. This isn't the end of the line. Last but not least, don't give up. Unless you want to work full time for an employer. Failure is something that everyone runs against in their life and it shouldn't stop you from doing other things.

For all you know, this time next year, you could be booming with some other amazing idea you get.

</comment><comment><USER32> I've missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. 26 times, I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed.

Michael Jordan

<comment><USER33> Thanks Alex for posting the first quote from a sportsperson I've every actually found inspirational.

OP, hang in there and find _someone_ you can talk about your feelings to, even if you have to keep your "confident face" on all day.

Failing that, listen to a lot of Nine Inch Nails. No, wait, that was Dotcom 1.0.

</comment></comment><comment><USER34> Your investors were grown-ups. If you did everything legally, they are "qualified investors" (meaning they have wealth &/or high income); they signed a bunch of papers that explicitly say they have a good chance of losing all their money; and if they are at all professional, this is part of their business, and in fact believe it or not they are much more likely to invest in your next venture than some random investor you never met.

A startup is a venture. If the venture fails, it does not mean you are a personal failure for all of time. It just means that idea, with that execution, did not succeed in the marketplace at that time.

</comment><comment><USER35> It can be hard to keep your head up in this situation, but, you should try. Just because this startup fails, don't let it effect you forever. Sure you have a right to be upset for now, but know that you have to move on.

In the way that you sold your idea to the investor (whether it was by way of having a product to show, or just fancy talking, or a combination of both), you will have to rise from the ashes and prepare to do it again.

You can, and probably should eventually frame this as experience, because thats exactly what it is. A lot of investors will look at this as a learning experience for you, if your able to keep yourself from being rattled out of the game.

The next time around, you will be able to look back on your experience, and hopefully make different choices that will help you stay at the edge of your seat.

Lastly, sometimes ideas just don't work, despite all your best efforts. Sometimes there is little you can do to change the course of history. Often, its a combination of both bad decisions, and being in the right place at the wrong time, or the wrong place at the right time.

</comment><comment><USER36> A CEO of a company I worked for once told me that the best thing to do here is realize the end is near and do everything to save some of the money from going down the drain early so you can return something to the investors. This will get you more respect than just waiting hopelessly for the bottom to fall out and losing everything. They may respect your effort and invest in you again, or at minimum protect your reputation enough to stay in their network (useful for getting a day job afterwards).

</comment><comment><USER37> You shouldn't lose more sleep over your investors' money than they do. And by the sound of it I can pretty much guarantee that you are losing more sleep then they are, if they are professionals.

</comment><comment><USER38> I have gone thru this state of mind.

We got A+ investors but we failed to deliver. We had founder breakups early on and I was made a single founder for the last two years. I ended up working twice as hard to make up for my founder's departure. (The stress and long hours actually made me less productive.) It almost killed my health and my relationship with the loved ones.

Don't take it personally. You have given your best shot and remember you have your own opportunity cost. It's a fair deal to the investors. The important thing is to handle the wind down professionally. Try to savage what you have (team or product). You or your investors may not get anything out of it but they sure would appreciate your effort.

</comment><comment><USER39> Your investors are unresponsive to your questions? Then they've probably already mentally moved on : They're not hanging on your every word; They're not dependent on you; and you're not letting them down as badly as you feel you are.

If it's any consolation, they may be watching to see whether you just give up, or stick with it to the end. You may be surprised that they would back you again with a different idea, since you're so obviously sweating over every dollar of their money...

</comment><comment><USER40> Is it really this bad for everyone? I am just starting to fund my startup now so I have yet to be in your position. But I've certainly faced a lot of challenges in life and in my career, depression included, unemployment included, confusion after receiving an expensive degree from a liberal arts college in the middle of the worst part of the recession included. I survived all those things. I am incredibly optimistic and passionate about the startup I'm working on. But the part of me that worries feels like: if it doesn't work out it will be horrifying but it's a challenge I can handle because I've handled all those other things.

My hunch is that if the OP feels the way he describes he needs to explore his relationship to failure and uncertainty and figure out how he can better handle those experiences.

</comment><comment><USER25> To the author of the article: I have been staring at the screen for two mins after reading the article. I really want to say something encouraging and supportive; but I found myself at a lost of what to say. Maybe it is because I really understand what you mean by the sense of "impending doom." When I had the sense of "impending doom," I feel that people just don't understand--How can I not feel depressed when the situation is getting worse and worse? But life moves on.. And the situation will get better one way or the other. Ten years later when you look back at this, I am sure that you will realize that it is not as bad as you think it is... You have to stay hopeful!

</comment><comment><USER41> The reactions to an emotional post from one of our colleagues are interesting in that they too contain a large amount of emotional references. Some random examples:

Fuck 'm all You failed Having lost touch You just got lucky Being average It is ok to be xyz You aren't alone Own it It sucks Things may not be as bad Disappointing Frustrating Don't give up The first time is the worst It can be hard to keep our head Freaked out Taking other people's money is a big one On the brink of bankruptcy Staring death in the eye Going down with the ship Don't worry Poems and questions from social heroes

Emotional generalizations, value-based references, hero-based metaphors are stomach (feeling) based expressions. Probably posted in the hope to change our colleague's feelings. I hope it works.

An additional approach is to move our focus & energy away from the stomach and into to the head (thinking). As such, a non-emotional metaphor would be something like: A startup = an analysis + a set of assumptions/decisions + certain actions, resulting in specific projected results. The original analysis includes the resource constraints assumptions (yup, if xyz happens, we will run out of $ by this month). Then the standard actions start: Regular review the of obtained results + if not as projected, revisit the analysis, decisions and actions. Keep doing these steps till the projected results are realized or till the resources run out. Whatever comes first. Period. Feelings not required.

</comment><comment><USER42> Ok, here's my 2 cents

1 - If you are so sure you're failing in a couple of months, shut down now and return the money that's left. Simple as that.

2 - Startups fail. Investors know that. They don't talk to you because they know already (rude of them, but I understand).

2a - Don't worry about this. It's part of the business. Priced, accounted, etc. It's nothing personal, just business.

In university I had this Economics teacher. First class: "Why are you going to build a business with your money? Don't be stupid, do it with someone else's money". Very true words.

</comment><comment><USER43> Good story..

Own it. Own this failure and figure out (if you havent already) what went wrong and own it. This isn't just about damage control, this is about realizing the struggle in keeping a business a float is an asset, extracting as much data and knowledge will drive the success of your future projects.

And above all, do not let the investors forget you with a bad taste in their mouth. Own it, again. Remind them why they invested you in the first place, you never know what the future holds. Don't let it just burn up!

</comment><comment><USER44> Tell us about the app. You still have time. Why is it failing?

</comment><comment><USER45> Reminds me of something DHH said in his talk Unlearn Your MBA. He said "I have been talking to a lot of people in the Web 2.0 space and a lot of them have taken venture capital. I have not met one who said he wouldn't do it different if he were to do it again." His entire rant on spending other people's money is excellent.

Sad to read this founder's story. Even sadder that it by far the rule, rather than the exception. Good advice, learned the hard way.

</comment><comment><USER46> On the subject of 'your own money' I recently failed at my first (and only) self-funded start-up: [http://wpcandy.com/presents/the-story-of-wonderthemes- starti...](http://wpcandy.com/presents/the-story-of-wonderthemes-starting-a- wordpress-theme-marketplace/)

The personal loss was not great (around $10k USD) and it was money that I had earned myself over a few years freelancing while working 9-5 so I was prepared to loose it all if it came to that.

The feeling of loss and 'doom' when this little stash of money did eventually run out was very, very, debilitating however - more so that I would have imagined it could be. I was forever thinking how the money 'could' and perhaps 'should' have been used elsewhere on more efficient and better planned projects and how if I had a partner at least we could have shared the 'blame'.

I think that in the end, it doesn't matter where the money comes from. When you get investment, it 'feels' like it's your own money anyway, if it doesn't, then you're probably doing it wrong.

FYI, I HackerNews-d this last week to zero response if anyone cares to pipe in:

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5200221>

</comment><comment><USER47> Try and disassociate your sense of self from the wellbeing of your company. If your company fails, you continue to be a multifaceted human being with many other successes and failures ahead of you.

Try and let your friends and family know what's going on. Give them a chance to support you in your tough times exactly the same way you would want to support them. Also, it will make it much easier to tell them if the company does fail.

</comment><comment><USER48> If you've set up your company correctly, you should be personally protected from liability if the company fails, right?

Assuming that's true, then perhaps you'll end up with a tarnished reputation, but your life isn't crumbling apart. It shouldn't be too difficult to find a more conventional job with a decent salary, especially if you've managed to create a product that people wanted to invest in.

<comment><USER49> If this person has a very good way of explaining to potential employers about the logistics of what went down, it shouldn't be a liability in getting a job and powering up the skills before trying again, if that's their life goal to be self-employed. Most of the startups I've seen fail isn't for lack of technical ability but for completely over-estimating there being a market for their product - either wrong time or wrong market or wrong product.

</comment></comment><comment><USER50> I'm going through this same process of admitting failure right now, and it seems like everybody gives people in our position the same advice: "Don't worry about the investors. They knew what they were getting into." In our case, this is simply not true, and we can't be the only startup in this position.

All of our funding so far was raised from my personal friends and family. None of them ever invested in anything even nearly as risky as an early-stage startup before, but they trusted in me enough to take the leap. I dread the day I have to tell them that they aren't getting their money back just a few months after sending optimistic status update emails telling them all about our user acquisition efforts and new product developments. It is very difficult for me to not think of our failure as a betrayal of their trust. I intend to pay all of these family members and friends back with my own money, but until then I can't imagine escaping this guilt.

Has anybody else gone through a similar thought process? How did you deal with it?

<comment><USER51> This sounds like a nightmare. I'm sorry, but you've got a tough road ahead of you if things don't take an upward swing. I'm just a student, no entrepreneurial experience (yet!), but the best advice I can give you is to man up and avoid trying to hide from the people you've let down.

Be honest, no one respects a coward.

At the end of the day, you'll be alive. You have clean water and probably an iPhone- it could be much worse. You've learned a lesson too, don't take loans from friends/family.

</comment></comment><comment><USER52> I've been there too. The first time is the worst.

It was hard, but I still do startups and wouldn't change that for anything.

It'll get better. Don't give up on yourself. :)

</comment><comment><USER53> Is it just me or people in the startup world are taking failure too hard. OK, so someone put some money in your idea, you tried your best, and you failed. Big deal. Just move on to the next thing in your life, without losing enthusiasm. The startups scene is supposed to be dynamic and fast, no?

It's all just a game anyway, especially when all you lost is OPM (other people's money)

</comment><comment><USER54> You failed, it sucks and it wasn't your fault.

Investors saw an opportunity the same way you saw one, that's their game, its a numbers game for them. They invest in lots of promises, they win some, loose more but the wins cover the losses so don't worry about them.

You did your best and that's all that matters; the rest was beyond your control.

People fail like you every single day. In fact, almost every successful entrepreneur has a CV of failure much longer than you would have guessed, but no one ever talks about these failures; by the time they hit their big win, the failures are long forgotten.

Only the successes ever make it to TechCrunch and hardly anyone ever gets there on their first try.

So stop beating yourself up; get up, dust-off your shoulders and get to work on your next gig. When you reflect on this experience as you work on your next startup, you'll be able to see just how much you've learnt from this failure and maybe even be able to appreciate it.

Keep tossing the coin and your win, your success, will come soon. You haven't failed until you quit.

Best of luck.

</comment><comment><USER55> I've started four companies in my career, two of which ended up nicely, one of which was an utter train wreck that bankrupted people, and one a work in progress.

You'll learn more from a bad outcome than from a success. I agree with everyone saying don't worry about the investors. They invested in a highly risky business. Turned out it wasn't the next Facebook. Well, that's 99.999% of startups.

More likely than not, the business was doomed by circumstances before it even began (bad timing, bad market fit, etc). If this was your first or second business (likely), no reasonable investor can blame you, even if you did make avoidable mistakes.

So treat it as a learning experience, and don't obsess about the impact on your reputation, etc. Shit happens, and anybody who knows the tech business understands the odds are stacked against you.

</comment><comment><USER56> I'm not sure if I agree with this.

1\. There's nothing wrong in failing 2. Investors run a business - with a business, you have things that fail and things that succeed; they know that there is a probability of your startup failing and have gone through that multiple times

If your investors don't want to talk to you anymore just because your startup failed - you have shitty investors.

If they truly believe that you are solely responsible for the failure - <USER2> suck. It is their responsibility to help you succeed, and when you dont, be there for you and try to take responsibility for a small part of that failure.

I know it sucks to fail. When impending doom closes on you, you always feel like writing a 200 word rant essay on pastebin, but it is OK to fail and you will succeed. It's all a question of learning from this experience and moving on..

</comment><comment><USER57> The thing that makes me most sad about this is that you're beating yourself up for losing investor's money.

Let me tell you - the investors are entering the arrangement knowing that they have a 90% chance of failure. That's why they want deals that _might_ give them a 10x return on their investment and they turn down "lifestyle" business that might return a meager 8% year over year.

It's great that you obviously care about your investors. But you should feel just about as bad over them losing their money as a gas station should feel when people lose a dollar buying a lotto ticket.

They made the decision to play the game, knowing full well there was a higher likelihood of failure than success.

Best of luck to you as you'll inevitably build something else.

</comment><comment><USER58> Isn't being on the brink of bankruptcy, staring death in the eye and beating the odds what running a startup is all about (at least initially)?

Reading "The money will run out within a couple of months, and the debts won't be able to be paid", I couldn't help but think: "wait, you have a couple of __months __?". People have gone by on less.

Maybe failing to innovate for a few years has doomed your company to fail. Then again, maybe not. The party's only over when the lights go out :)

I know it's cheesy to quote PG on HN, but what the hell: "Startups rarely die in mid keystroke. So keep typing!" – <http://www.paulgraham.com/die.html>

</comment><comment><USER59> You cant let this failure stop you. Many of the worlds most successful people have failed many times before finally achieving success.

Nor can you let the fact that investors were involved get you down. Investment is about risk, not guarantees. Your investors knew, or should have known that.

Investment is speculating.

The only guarantee you owe them is that you did your best. If your best wasnt good enough this time, so fucking what?

You can only do your best today. Tomorrow's best is different, because you learned from today.

Dust yourself off, reach into your idea drawer, pick out the next one and start again. Maybe it works maybe it doesn't.

Some will, some won't, so what? On to the next. You learn from each attempt.

</comment><comment><USER60> Regarding your investors not calling you back etc - they've written you off.

Surprise them. But before you can do that -

Come up with a new original plan, a pivot, anything that might just revitalize the business. It sounds like you had given up before they did. Look at your digital assets - can your codebase be repurposed for something? Would rebranding work? What about your user base - could you interest them with a new app or new service? Any IP you could license to someone else? There Amy be a well-funded company out there that's trying to build what you already have.

</comment><comment><USER61> I just signed away 10% of a company I founded. It was hampered by loans from the origination of the business 5 years ago. Had that orignal money not been equity AND loans we'd have been profitable 18 months ago. I was laid off in September and now have a good job after a few tenuous months.

I won't feel bad if they do end up making something of it and sell it for a profit because I am glad to be out. I don't need a freelance job that doesn't pay anything around my neck all week, every week.

The investors protected themselves and brought down the business with it.

</comment><comment><USER62> There is no shame in failure. There will be plenty of life to look forward to, for you and your investors, after your 2 months are up. Go on to greater and better things.

Many great entrepreneurs failed many times before ultimately succeeding. Even a successful company goes on to a constant stream of failures, with enough successes in the mix to come out a net positive. This is true of Amazon, Google, and all the rest.

A Churchill quote comes to mind. "Success is never final, failure is never fatal. The important thing is to never, never, give up".

</comment><comment><USER63> If I could add a paragraph to the end: Yet, sometimes with failure there comes new beginnings. While my pain is real, I do understand that investing is a profession with high risks involved. As much as I hate to admit it, this time I was the risk that didn't turn out as well as hoped. So I have to take this to note and head out to start something new. Endings are too easy. It's the ones who keep the story going, no matter how well it ends up turning out, that get remembered.

</comment><comment><USER64> Life Pro Tip: Always have a "plan B".

</comment><comment><USER65> Don't worry about the weirdo investors! They're still alive, they were not harmed in any way, they'll be fine. They aren't even investing their own money! All investors have a broad strategy, and they have anticipated that not all their investments will work out.

Also, you should be celebrating the risk you took to build something great. There's absolutely no shame in that. Feel proud of everything you learned, these lessons will remain with you for the rest of your life.

</comment><comment><USER66> I wouldn't fret about it. Investors know that investing in tech startups are as high risk as they come (b/c they have some of the highest rewards - <USER3> vs. reward). They know there is a chance that the investment will hit the bottom, so don't worry about them. Start looking for some jobs. I'm sure from your experience over a few years you can provide some great value to other organizations who would take you in a second. Keep your head up.

</comment><comment><USER67> We're about the same age and i totally resonate.

I personally think of failures as necessary steps towards the ultimate success. So try to look back and reflect, take notes and consult with people on why shit happened. It will be a true failure is don't learn anything from it.

learning is a lesson is great but gaining wise experience is super important.

keep your chin up be proud of what you accomplished (startup idea, investors, and a shot) it's more than other majority will ever get!

</comment><comment><USER68> My company failed (unexpectedly) in 2008.

I had signed piercing agreements on a large contract, and on some financing before the failure, so I ended up on the hook for a little over $500,000. The risk/reward payoff looked much better the odds were in favor of reward.

Here's my progress to date: <http://i.imgur.com/IGQ3rz6.png>

It's an anchor. It's killing my dreams. I worry that the stress will literally kill me.

<comment><USER69> Good luck! You'll get there.

<comment><USER68> Thank you. It's a grind, and it's likely to go down as my life's biggest mistake, but it will probably end.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER70> I had a company fold up on me like this as a team manager. I was close to the founders and they ALL did just fine. I also did fine. The only one I fault were some damn famous investors that didn't even respond to requests to have us meet at their related hiring portfolio companies. Cold.

Everyone else (including the founders), love them -- we all ended up on our feet and were better for the whole awesome startup experience.

</comment><comment><USER71> You're probably like me...you know exactly what you're going to do but you need someone else to tell you (it feels a lot better that way, doesn't it?) - so here it is take it from the legend himself Steve Jobs - he said persistence is what separates a successful entrepreneur from an unsuccessful entrepreneur...failure isn't an option, really that's why each time they ask us. How's it going? We say great!

</comment><comment><USER72> Curious question: If an entrepreneur raised money from VC, and things go south, is the entrepreneur's career basically "done" (e.g. blacklisted by every VC on the planet)? Can he start another venture and get VC money again?

How is it compared to being fired? (Being fired = you can find another job, might need to explain why you're fired to potential employer, but life goes on)

<comment><USER73> From my (admittedly quite limited) experience with investors and entrepreneurs here in the bay area, it's quite the opposite. Failure in itself is not at all a black mark. Product/market fit not existing is a common reason for startup failure and it's well understood in the investor community.

</comment></comment><comment><USER74> Nobody expects you to go down with the ship. Everyone involved is much better off with you putting positive energy into an effective completion.

You can shut down anytime so pick a date and inform your investors and customers. Give everyone enough time to migrate then turn off the lights.

You'll feel much better the moment you pick a date. I guarantee it (I've done it myself).

</comment><comment><USER75> Don't feel bad about your investors. They went into it with their eyes open, knowing that they were taking a punt. Taking lots of punts is in fact their business model. They knew there was a good chance they would lose that investment. As long as you dealt with them honestly then you have nothing to be ashamed of. Better luck next time.

</comment><comment><USER76> You've got this backwards. You want to gamble with other people's money, not your own. Some people took a stake in you because they thought it was a good bet. I'm assuming they were intelligent rational people who could make their own investment decisions. They lost and have moved on. You don't like being a loser, so don't be one.

</comment><comment> ux-app _... having a team of investors believe in you, only to let them down is an incredibly difficult thing to deal with._

don't beat yourself up about this. Any investment is a risk, and any mature investor will be well aware of the high failure rate for start-ups.

Most businesses fail. That doesn't reflect negatively on you, it's simply the nature of business.

</comment><comment><USER77> I've been in is situation, and the best feeling was when I called the shots and quit. The _last_ thing you should worry about is investors: they are not paying for guaranteed success, and they _should_ know that. It's exactly like a lottery ticket - they pay for a chance of success, and that's what you deliver.

</comment><comment><USER78> Don't feel bad for the investors, they took a risk and it didn't work out. Pick yourself up, dust yourself off etc.

</comment><comment><USER79> Failure is a life event, and it sucks. (Just like getting ditched, getting fired, getting sick, and so on.) Frankly, I'm glad I'm not in your shoes right now. But it's not the end. This thing you built will not take you down with it. You'll still be standing, and ready to move on to the next chapter.

</comment><comment><USER80> It's fine to feel down about failure but please don't feel bad about the investors for a second. They invested in your idea for success, failure is part of that investment.

If you're this far down the rabbit hole, stop digging, spend as little as possible, and try a different idea ASAP.

And remember, above all else, be true to yourself.

</comment><comment><USER81> That's exactly what's moronic with investors, they invest in the company, not in the founders. Unless you made them money, they will ignore you.

Until next time you succeed then, they will start following you back and talk about old days how it was fun and exciting.

Yeah, exception exists and they have a track record showing it.

</comment><comment><USER60> Been there. And you know what's more difficult than letting investors down? ("Debts won't be paid" etc)

Paying them back. Not immediately, perhaps over a period of 2 or 3 years, while working on saving the co without making any salary.

Unfortunately, most entrepreneurs prefer to just walk away.

</comment><comment><USER82> Start the proper paperwork and close doors now. No point in waiting two more months. Time to rejuvenate by either starting something new, taking a break or getting a "normal" job for a bit. Dragging on what is inevitable is the worse you can do to yourself.

</comment><comment><USER83> Try not to let the thought of letting down investors bring you down. They're investors, they put money in knowing they might not get it back. Obviously, they've moved on...probably without much trouble. You're going to have a much harder time of it.

</comment><comment><USER84> > If I had failed using my own money, I could live with it. But having a team > of investors believe in you, only to let them down is an incredibly > difficult thing to deal with.

You shouldn't feel bad about this. Investors should know there is risk in any investment.

</comment><comment><USER85> Unless you've consistently done stupid things and lost their trust, it sounds like you've got assholes for investors.

Did they ever try to help you on product, business, or operations?

</comment><comment><USER86> Failure is the stepping stone to success. Don't give up.

</comment><comment><USER87> Don't worry about the investor's money, that is why it's called venture capital for a reason. Investing money it's a risk itself.

</comment><comment><USER88> The biggest competition for entrepreneur is himself. Self-awareness is the most important in my opinion. Example is Noah Kagan :)

</comment><comment><USER89> Fuck it - that is the game and "investors" know it. Go drink an awesome import beer. Rent a comedy and laugh your ass off.

</comment><comment><USER90> Keep your head up. I had a really, really, really hard time with it, too. Identical situation (nearly).

</comment><comment><USER91> really strong words. thanks for sharing this. keep your chin up, the investors knew the risks of angel investing / venture capital. be proud that your gave it your all.

if you didn't take this risk, you would always look back and wonder what if. Ik that's cliched to high hell but it's true

</comment><comment><USER92> A lot of people are saying just own it and move on. Well I'm going to try a different approach. I hope you see this. I've been leading a team the past couple months building my first major app that has traction. It's been a roller coaster already but today we were able to get a version into TestFlight and see it on my phone. It sucks, it's still buggy, and it's not up to my standards yet but it was the most exciting thing seeing something that isn't perfect yet come to fruition. Something I've thought about and lost sleep over and spent countless hours designing and planning. It's finally starting to come alive and I'm leading a team of awesome developers that are making it happen and it's so exciting seeing it become real.

Now I know that you had to have this feeling with whatever you built. Remember back to those times you kept refreshing the page to see how many new users or page views you had since the last time you refreshed. You were excited about it. You were elated to a point where you felt you were unstoppable. What happened from here? Really ask yourself this. Ask what roads you took that lead you to where you are. Just saying you 'ran out of innovation' is a pretty crappy excuse. Some decisions you let happen led you to where you are today.

What I want you to see is a glimpse of that same spark you felt 2 years ago when you first launched and when you were building your app. I am in the opposite state of mind as you are currently. Things are looking good for me but that's because I choose to see it that way. Even when things are crap, I know that I can make them better if my heart is in it and I trust my gut.

You have the same power. You've already admitted defeat and chose to fail. You said it yourself, you're going to fail in two months and I've already given up. YOU CANNOT let your mind get in that state. Find out what is blocking you from taking it to the next level and get there. If you are a true entrepreneur at heart, find that spirit you had in the early days. It's not hopeless, it's just what you see it as.

You can be another story of failure or you could just as easily be a story of success. It is what you make it. I don't believe that there is no way out and you're doomed to fail because your lack of innovation. Some things you should kill if they don't work, but you better be damn sure it won't work because it's a bad model and not because your innovation just ran out.

You wrote this and posted it to HN. You're trying to find a way out or you're trying to find out what to do next. I'm telling you. Search deep inside yourself. Remember you only live once. You were given a good chance based on that initial passion and energy you had. Find that again. Figure out what you need to do to turn things around and do them. If it's killing them fine, but kill it being happy and confident. If you need support or someone to talk to, my email is in my profile. Whoever you are, if we are at all in like minded spirits, you just have to dig deep to overcome this mountain, and before long you will regain that vision and compass of where to go.

Edit: a few words

</comment><comment><USER93> Money is a tool.

The skills and knowledge you've gain can't be taken away like a tool can.

Time to get back up.

Rise.

</comment><comment><USER94> Who wrote this? I'd like to talk to you - email@example.com

<comment><USER95> Me too - firstname.lastname@example.com

</comment></comment><comment><USER96> Best post I've read yet on HN. The feels man, the feels.

</comment><comment><USER97> There is no failure, only feedback.

</comment><comment><USER98> thanks for sharing... it is always to dream the happy path, this was a real good heads up...

</comment><comment><USER99> get up start and start working. be optimistic . FTW

</comment><comment><USER100> In Islam, the most fundamental principle is the worthlessness of this life. It is simply a bridge to the afterlife, and it's the afterlife that's the true reality, this is simply an illusion. This does not mean you should not live it to your fullest, but accept that it will never give you the peace and satisfaction you need. You're poor? You grieve. You're rich? Then you grieve for your family members and friends, you grieve for your inevitable death and the death of your loved ones. This is simply what life is. We try to mask it, but it is what it is.

My wife lost a brother (40's) and a sister (20's) to cancer. Her parents watched their children die in front of them. What amount of money could make that easy? My brother's got a tumor in his ankle and we're eagerly awaiting the biopsy results. Just hoping for the best.

I should note again that Islam does not tell you not to be happy or feel happy. It doesn't tell you not to try to achieve or become. It doesn't tell you not to help. But it tells you never to forget the nature of this life. People who are trying to make sense of life simply fail to know it is as it is by design. It was meant to be unjust and unfair, and overall, incomplete.

Finally, a few verses in the Quran that are quite interesting (the plural is the plural of majesty):

"Those who do not hope to meet Us and are content and satisfied with this life and are unaware of Our verses. Those are the ones who are destined for hellfire because of what they do"

"He who does good, being male or female, whilst being a believer. We will grant them a good life and will give them their reward from the best deeds they used to do"

"We have created man to live in pain. Does he think no one is able to defeat him? He says, I have squandered money in abundance. Does he think no one has seen him? Did we not grant him eyes, a tongue and lips? And have given him the two choices (obedience and rebellion)?"

context: God speaking to Adam and Satan after being banished from paradise "He said, get out, all of you, from it. You are from now on enemies of one another. Whenever my guidance comes to you (on Earth), he who follows my guidance will not go astray nor live in hardship. But he who turns away from my revelation, he will live a life of misery, and on the day of judgment, he will be left blind. He will say: My Lord, why have you made me blind when I once could see? He says, so have my verses come to you and you forgot them, and likewise today you're forgotten"

Finally, anyone who would like to bash Islam or religion. Don't reply. I don't care for your opinion. These are simply my two cents. Or as the Quran puts it "he who wants, let him believe. And he who wants, let him disbelieve". Wondering if I can sneak links in here?

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8Unyg83194> [http://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-news-newspaper-daily- engli...](http://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-news-newspaper-daily-english- online/international/30-Jan-2010/Swiss-antagonist-of-minarets-embraces-Islam)

</comment><comment><USER101> Startups, like any love, suffers from the lack of reality checks. One must keep the balance - too much reality checks - and you ruin the magic, too few - and you become disconnected from reality which lead to the pain of cognitive dissonance when eventually you face it.

So, delude yourselves responsibly.)

</comment><comment><USER102> Move on to the next thing. You're a pussy if you let this get you down.

</comment><comment><USER103> What reason did your wife give you for getting a divorce? Did she realize you weren't going to strike it rich and bailed? Now's the time to get out there and bang as many 21 year old chicks as you can.</comment>


Why you will fail to have a great career [video] - <AUTHOR> http://www.ted.com/talks/larry_smith_why_you_will_fail_to_have_a_great_career.html

<comment><USER2> Very inspirational speech.</comment>


Maze solving using fatty acid chemistry - <AUTHOR> http://pubs.acs.org/doi/full/10.1021/la5018467

<comment><USER2> I suppose this is an example of bidirectional breadth-first search, but in a highly paralleled way.

<comment><USER3> I think it is one-directional. The dye remains fixed until the acid "finds it". The path is then reconstructed as the dye "backtracks" the ph gradient.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Similar to this from a few years back: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPMHjDzpOVg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPMHjDzpOVg) (the paper of which the authors cited).</comment>


Tesla's Pay Deal to Keep Elon Musk: All or Nothing - <AUTHOR> https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/23/business/dealbook/tesla-elon-musk-pay.html <comment><USER2> He really needs to find a COO. He needs his Tim Cook. This is a good way to show shareholders he's all in, but he's not a genius at Operations, he needs to find someone who is.

<comment><USER3> He'll learn if that's a role he's meant to evolve into.

<comment><USER4> what does that mean? haven't both tesla and spaceX historically struggled with operations under his leadership? don't you think he'd have learned by now if he could?

<comment><USER3> I think you could only honestly say that Tesla and SpaceX have struggled with operations under his leadership if you're ignoring the level of success that both companies reached so far. He's busy, he's admitted and aware of switching costs of leading two companies - there is value to this though of course too; imagine if Elon only focused on Tesla and not SpaceX - where would we be as a society, where would Elon be position wise? He's following his intuition and his heart which he clearly wears on his sleeves. He's a wonderful role model, and we should support everyone the same way he's gained support from others; yes, he was entrepreneurial from a young age, and "got lucky" by knowing to move to the place that dreams are more easily funded. We fail as a society supporting everyone to reach their dreams to the same level, part of the reason are systems in place that are designed to control and funnel everyone into an economically efficient model - however ignoring the qualitative impact - it's why the idea of flexible learning, learning online at your own pace, etc are going to become the future.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Fun bit: Mr. Musk does not take a salary, although under California State law, Tesla is required to pay him at least minimum wage. Tesla sends him checks that pay him a little more than $37,000 annually.

A first minimum wage CEO of a public company?

<comment><USER6> No, there are lots of CEOs that only take $1 salary, in states where they can be exempt from minimum wage.

<comment><USER7> Steve Job's salary was $1, this was widely reported.

<comment><USER8> Bragging about having a $1 salary is basically telling your employees that you make so much more in other benefits that you can choose to forego the one thing (salary) that makes up the vast majority of their total comp.

<comment><USER9> In Steve Jobs' case, it was meant to instill confidence that he was in it for the long term - at the time, Apple was on death's doorstep.

He also had enough cash in the bank prior to re-joining that he didn't really need the money.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> This plan is roughly isomorphic to option compensation. It has a serious incentive compatibility problem: the value of the options increases with volatility/risk, so incentivizes unnecessary, and even negative expectation, risk taking. Maybe Musk has a big enough stake in Tesla to mitigate this effect, but it's definitely not a risk free approach for minority shareholders.

<comment><USER11> It's also linked to operational milestones, so market cap has to be met with actual progress. That's much better than market cap alone.</comment></comment>


Ask HN: How do I go from Admin to Dev? - james-chipper

I went to school,studied CS and graduated.   I really enjoyed school and since my graduation in the spring of 2009 I have had a Linux Admin job for the last two years.  When I graduated jobs, even dev jobs were hard to find.  I applied for a while but the common trend was that you needed  3-5 years of experience for entry level positions and my personal finance prohibited me from doing an internship.
I am not a great programmer but think I am pretty good.  As a Linux admin I come into contact with developers of various degrees and would say without a doubt that my programming knowledge exceeds some of theirs at times.  It's odd to say that but meeting a senior web developer who has no idea what GET or POST are does cause concern.  Or one who when you mention rest looks at you with a blank stare even though their rails is architected on rest.
My problem is I have been a linux admin for the past two years and whenever I apply, no matter what I do I am instantly pushed aside due to that.  I asked this question some time ago on another site and was told to put up personal projects on github.  I did and it looks great.  The problem now is HR at many of these companies presumes that admins can't code so why would he have a github.  It's an odd association because most of the admins I know also have CS degree's and can code.  They may not understand/remember the specifics of OO or how to create a socket in C but they can program. If you asked them to do something they would look up what they don't know like anybody else and get it done.
I could say that I am a Python programmer but the truth is it doesn't really matter what language it is.  Whether it be Java or SML, in a week or two I can write and test decent code.  The first time I was asked to do a fizzbuzz I had no issues and did it quickly. <comment><AUTHOR> James, Thanks for asking this question on HN. My position is same like yours. I am a UNIX system admin and I am also trying to learn coding. 16 hours on HN and 0 comments is the proof that people do ignore sys admins who are trying to change their career to coding :)). That was a joke BTW.

What you can do to get noticed is instead of you going to people and asking for job why not you build something (a website, an app, or any other thing) to get their attention. I am planning to do the same. Sharing your code on github will be an perfect strategy but if it is not working for you then try to make something practical out of it. I am sure with your kind of confidence you can build something nice and attractive.

Good Luck with your quest.</comment>


Why Procrastinators Procrastinate - <AUTHOR> http://waitbutwhy.com/2013/10/why-procrastinators-procrastinate.html

<comment><USER2> I love how this article's advice is basically, "Don't listen to the voice in your head that tells you to procrastinate."

Which is just a slightly headier rewording of the original advice which it mocks ala, "Don't procrastinate."</comment>