A small French privacy ruling could remake adtech - <AUTHOR> https://techcrunch.com/2018/11/20/how-a-small-french-privacy-ruling-could-remake-adtech-for-good/ <comment><USER2> Good. I always saw the intention of the GDPR as legislation to fundamentally change the way personal data is processed, to prevent the freely spreading of it, with blatant disregard to the consequences, by basically any company that handles personal data. Instead most companies have just opted for clickwrap consent, and continued as they always have.

The more rulings we have like this, the better. Yes it may cause some business models to disappear, but I feel it's worth it to take back control of our privacy.

<comment><USER3> > Yes it may cause some business models to disappear, but I feel it's worth it > to take back control of our privacy.

Good, hopefully we'll see some real innovation, with wide spread micropayments, rather than brainwashing which costs the viewer of the site far more than the recipient of the site gets.

<comment><USER4> I think micropayments are a classic example of a solution that seems sensible to engineering under the assumption that humans are rational beings, but in the real world it falls apart because they aren't.

The hardest part of making a sale isn't the price--it's getting the customer to say yes. With micropayments you ask the customer to say yes _every time they click a link._ This imposes a cognitive/mood/whatever penalty every time they consider viewing your content. No wonder it hasn't taken off.

A better solution from a market psychology standpoint would be to sell an all access pass to the content on 10, 100, or 1000 websites. Monthly auto rebill. Just one purchase decision for life and with enough sites the perceived value is high. Not sure why we aren't seeing more of this -- if anyone works at a media conglomerate feel free to reply :)

<comment><USER5> Just make it an all you can eat plafond.

I know I am worth ~50$ a year to the Ad business. I'll gladly pay $60 a year for access to content. That $60 gets redistributed to content providers based on the share of my viewership they get.

Basically, cut the middle man (ad companies in this case).

<comment><USER6> The thing is someone in our community is probably worth $500 a year to the ad business whereas 90% of people are worth nothing. Would you be willing to pay $600 a year to access content, what happens to the other 90% who couldn't afford that. What media would they be condemned to consume.

<comment><USER3> $2 a day?

If you really want to be socially inclusive, raise taxes on those that can afford to pay (wealthy pensioners are massively undertaxed in the UK for instance), and distribute it as "consumer tokens", or cash, that people can spend on consuming crap.

<comment><USER7> Yeah, taxing other people is a simple answer to just about everything.

<comment><USER3> That's what advertising does. You're taxing me to pay for low income people to get free adverts

If you want to subsidise low income people, then be honest about it.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> > In plainer English, this is being interpreted by data experts as the > regulator stating that consent to processing personal data cannot be gained > through a framework arrangement which bundles a number of uses behind a > single "I agree" button that, when clicked, passes consent to partners via a > contractual relationship.

Now, I guess it's obvious to complain about the idiotic, user-hostile and down-right evil Oath consent pop-over that I got when I visited TC. I'm gonna do it anyway.

Here's hoping this ruling stands.

<comment><USER9> I haven't read techcrunch or any site with that oauth pop-over since GDPR came in. It's super obnoxious.

<comment><USER8> Pretty sure it's not OAuth, but Oath.

Also pretty sure they named the company Oath so that people would think "oh this is another OAuth permission box, OK".

<comment><USER10> It looks like the "Oath" brand is going away, and they're going to use "Verizon Media Group": [https://www.theverge.com/2018/11/5/18064172/verizon- oath-med...](https://www.theverge.com/2018/11/5/18064172/verizon-oath-media- group-rebrand)

<comment><USER11> Good. It was a truly horrible name.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> I like the way they are punished:

      no fine, but CNIL ordered the firm to delete all data it had
      not already deleted (having judged collection illegal given
      consent was not valid); and to stop processing data without
      consent.

So this is a warning shot to them and the ad industry: If they change the way they do business, they were almost not hurt (There is probably the court costs to pay, plus their defence, plus opportunity costs).

For now, the maximum fines seem to be just that, at least in France: Maxima, only for those who really do not want to mend their ways

<comment><USER13> There's no need for punishment but pedagogy.

Since there is still a lot of moving part regarding RGPD, the CNIL is just laying the foundation for futur cases.

<comment><USER12> Exactly. And the fact that CNIL takes this approach, deserves some applause. They could take out bigger guns if they wanted.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> The interminable pile of pop-ups on the EU web has become extremely annoying, and I don't blame ad firms and publishers for seeking to minimise the disruption to the user experience.

At the same time, the protections that the GDPR seeks to provide are very important and it's absolutely right to protect them in law.

But what value is there in constant boxes that users become accustomed to clicking through like trained monkeys? It devalues the whole point of the GDPR because no sane person would actually read the policies for every single website to see if their data is being used reasonably or not.

I personally think that there should be a limited, well-defined set of data that can be transmitted to ad exchanges under an assumed consent. Fully anonymised and broad demographic data (eg: age range, sex, city, etc) for example. Anything beyond that should require an explicit consent.

This should encourage most publishers to do the right thing, because if you're doing something that requires a consent pop-up, it probably means you're up to no good.

<comment><USER15> The constant boxes are actually against the spirit of the GDPR and it's only a matter of time until they are banned as well.

The GDPR requires all tracking to be opt-in and to be completely optional. Blocking access to a page by requiring the users to tick one or more permission boxes is not opt-in. The same is true for many other GDPR permission forms (like Tumblr's) where all uses and parties were/are enabled by default and one needs to disable each one individually.

It's a matter of time before one of these big firms gets investigated for these practices and a fine is dropped. Publishers will learn to stick to the rules soon enough.

<comment><USER16> How can you be opt-in and be optional at the same time?

<comment><USER17> Consent-based personal data processing _must_ be optional. That's pretty explicit in the GDPR. You _cannot_ predicate service on a user opting-in (consenting). That's not consent. That's coercion, and the GDPR pretty explicitly bans it.

"But how can we monetise our service if we can't get paid via exploitation of personal data of our users?"

Don't know, don't care, not my problem. The ad industry has proven itself incapable of self-regulation, so the GDPR explicitly destroys this entire business model. Figuring out a new that works is the industry's problem.

<comment><USER18> Precisely.

What everyone forgets is that one of the biggest debacles with adtech was their inability to even guarantee that no _malware_ was being fed with the ads. That's how bad it had gotten. It will take a long, _long_ time before I have any sympathy for digital advertising.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> The stronger GDPR is interpreted by the courts, the stronger Google & Facebook's oligopoly is. To compete as an ad network you will first need to have consented first-party data at scale - in other words, a (or network of) website/application that a majority of European's visit daily.

<comment><USER20> That doesn't seem to be the case here. In fact, Google asking other's to collect consent, and then performing auditing, may well not be considered compliant after this ruling.'

> The requirement based on the article 7 above-mentioned isn't fulfilled with > a contractual clause that guarantees validly collected initial consent. The > company VECTAURY should be able to show, for all data that it is processing, > the validity of the expressed consent.

Google hasn't first-party consented through each of the publishing contracts. They may be able to turn it around.

However, the industry would now favour someone who had no need to collect consent, if we're just talking about the base ability. The ad-world's dependency on personalised data is a problem, and may continue having issues with the GDPR.

<comment><USER21> I think you're confusing Google's ad-tech platform (DFP and such) with Google's actual primary business as a publisher. Google's ad-tech business competes with other ad-tech platforms and provides services for other publishers to monetize their inventory. This is a relatively small part of their overall business that they could live without and Google the publisher doesn't need any of that to stay massively profitable. Google's own inventory would certainly be more valuable in a world where Google's ad-tech platform could not effectively help monetize other publishers' inventory.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> The solution is to replace the cookie consents with an explicit form where users select their interests, so that the publisher can request ads tailored to the user. It's a lot more transparent and it can save a lot of publishers in the EU which are now at a dead end. (People who think that donations/subscriptions will save websites are deluded. Tracking is bad , but targeted advertising is not. Advertising is a perfectly valid model but context-based advertising is horrible - i know because i ve been seeing and serving those "russian bride" and "click here to get iphone" ads since May).

<comment><USER23> > context-based advertising is horrible - i know because i ve been seeing and > serving those "russian bride" and "click here to get iphone" ads since May).

Doesn't exactly seem like you got context-based ads but rather completely pointless ads?

<comment><USER22> thats what you will get if you have anything other than a blog, though. I bet news websites have the same problem. Reporting about a death doesnt mean you want to advertise coffins.

<comment><USER23> And there is the problem:

It seems Russian bride distributors and few others pay best.

And media houses seems to don't care that this is intellectually and emotionally insulting to their readers.

Had they put slightly more effort into this they might have had a nice income from non-spammy ads like they have in print.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> Anything that makes it more difficult for the advertising industry is good in my book. Reminds me of how our ancestors built cathedrals instead of hospitals.

</comment><comment><USER25> I've always felt that one way to change the way internet companies do business with a loose-style relationship with our data is to pass laws in small towns or even just one large city. Imagine if Portland OR made severe legal consequences for specific kinds of privacy breeches for people in its own town. The giants would have to decide to block people in that city or change general data processing rules internally. But I think it acts more of a starting point of an avalanche as more and more places see the good that comes from that.

It's also NOT just the big corps. Companies that use public records (and public records in and of themselves needs a LOT of additional laws in the digital age) so you can find your ex-girlfriends, etc... Can you imagine these ASSHAT websites being sued for 100k by people in Portland? Then New York, etc.. I would love to see that happen.

</comment><comment><USER26> Maybe, at some point, ad companies would prefer asking a visitor which topic he is interested in, instead of trying to collect some giant amount of shitty data to feed their profiling engine and then being GDPRed for failure to register consent. Sometimes the best solution is also the simplest.

</comment><comment><USER12> I'm wondering if we can't start micropayments today: Create an ad provider which bids together with all the others, but in your name (and you give them some money).

If you pay enough via that ad provider, it will claim the ad space on that page for you and leave it empty or puts some todolist or whatever you want there. Ask a monthly fee of a euro for computer costs.

As this is the raison d'aitre of this pseudo ad company, all its GDPR troubles are resolved at once. If it gains traction, publishers can use it as a preferred ad provider and resolve their GDPR troubles too.

Only question: Who would want to pay for this. It might prove people prefer ads to micropayments.

<comment><USER27> To my knowledge that's basically what Google Contributor does: [https://contributor.google.com/v/beta](https://contributor.google.com/v/beta)

I don't think it ever caught on.

</comment></comment><comment><USER28> This is not only about advertising, it's about any service that trasfers consent to another one. There is a full thread about micro payments here, but they could solve only some cases. There are plenty of legitimate third-party services added to web sites (example: customer service) that according to this ruling (if I understood it well) should verify consent on their own. This could be possible or not, it depends on the nature of the service.

</comment><comment><USER29> There seems to be a significant ethical problem of dehumanization and predation in the tech community that must be analyzed and understood.

Here are people living in a civilized world with rules and regulations and posture as civilized human beings who function in an ethical society.

But at work they seem to be operating in neolitic wild lands engaging in increasingly invasive predatory behavior that systematically reduces the entirety of the human population going about their daily lives into objects of profit lacking agency, merely tools to be stalked and analyzed for revenue, to be prodded for value in any way possible. There is a dehumanization here with no respect of personal space, privacy and basic human dignity.

This would not be as bad if there was explicit consent and self declared transparency of the all processes in play, and commitments to ethical frameworks of operation. It's the surreptitious, misleading and often deceptive communication and behavior that betrays their willful complicity that is troubling.

</comment><comment><USER30> > consent [...] cannot be gained through a framework arrangement which bundles > a number of uses behind a single "I agree" button [...]

I'm a bit worried that the interface of old Windows installers might make a comeback in the internet, but with "I agree" instead of "Next" written on that button that you have to click a dozen times.

</comment><comment><USER31> This decision would be super good for Facebook and Google by the way. If you can't share/pool cookie data, then the smaller ad players will die out even faster than they are now.

</comment><comment><USER32> Perhaps ironically, I can't access this article because I'm unwilling to just click "OK" and allow TechCrunch to pass my data to all and sundry, and their 'controls' links lead to a warren of pages at their parent company's site, and eventually to some sort of login page, with no controls in sight.

In apparent contravention of the GDPR, various parts of the page say that I must agree to their use of my data for third party advertising or I cannot access the site.

<comment><USER33> _In apparent contravention of the GDPR, various parts of the page say that I must agree to their use of my data for third party advertising or I cannot access the site._

They can say that they have a legitimate interest exemption - and they do. Sites must be able to earn money from their content, or they cannot operate. Therefore, they have a "legitimate interest" exemption for this practice (allowed under GDPR) - they cannot provide you with the service you requested because you are unwilling to help pay for it by allowing third party ads.

Edit: By the way, none of this addresses the other elephant in the room. TechCrunch is US based, and to my knowledge they do not offer foreign language translations of their site, at least on the .com version of the site. This meets the test under Recital 23, which says that if it doesn't "envisage" serving EU users, it isn't even subject to the GDPR. Any privacy notices on TechCrunch.com are essentially a courtesy.

<comment><USER32> > They can say that they have a legitimate interest exemption - and they do

They don't. That's not a legitimate interest. Making money from the data is not covered and if it was then the entire law would be moot.

> they cannot provide you with the service you requested because you are > unwilling to help pay for it by allowing ads.

You missed the word _targeted_ there. And the massive background dissemination of data that accompanies them. That's the issue.

<comment><USER33> _They don 't. That's not a legitimate interest._

While I live in the US, I used an EU VPN for a few weeks just to see what would actually happen under GDPR as an EU user. I couldn't stand the popups after a while - GDPR has ruined the user experience of the web for 500 million people. But through that experience I saw that most sites based in the EU are either a) ignoring GDPR entirely, or b) taking the position that showing ads from third party ad networks without specific consent is a "legitimate interest" \- whether you agree with that position or not. I also witnessed countless sites that _required_ user consent in order to view content.

<comment><USER34> It doesn't really matter whether you or I agree with that position. The point is that the GDPR doesn't agree with that position -- and that has been made explicitly in the regulation: [https://www.gdpreu.org/the-regulation/key- concepts/legitimat...](https://www.gdpreu.org/the-regulation/key- concepts/legitimate-interest/)

 _Even when data processing is necessary to the controller, such legitimate interests must be weighed against "the interests or fundamental rights and freedoms of the data subject". Should data controllers justify processing without consent based on this subparagraph, they will need to be prepared to prove legitimate interests (a higher burden) relative to the implied general interests of data subjects._

So businesses will need to argue that their interest (income) outweighs the interests of their users (not to be sold out).

Specifically, when it comes to advertising itself as a legimate interest:

 _Where personal data are processed for the purposes of direct marketing, the data subject should have the right to object to such processing, including profiling to the extent that it is related to such direct marketing, whether with regard to initial or further processing, at any time and free of charge. That right should be explicitly brought to the attention of the data subject and presented clearly and separately from any other information._</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Bpython is a fancy interface to Python - <AUTHOR> http://bpython-interpreter.org/screenshots/ <comment><USER2> It's the first thing i install in my virtualenvs. Much better then the standard interactive console and just works out of the box. If you don't want more then tab completion, docstrings and a working command history between sessions it is great! For more stuff, see ipython.

</comment><comment><USER3> I see BPython has a list of alternative pretty interpreters listed on its page. iPython (that I know of) and DreamPie (that I don 't know of).

<http://bpython-interpreter.org/alternatives/>

Can anyone say how they all compare to each other?

<comment><USER4> There aren't any comprehensive list that I know of which lists the features of each interpreter.

as to bpython vs ipython, last tested it out, bpython still lacked a core feature that ipython has, which is a shell-style history. I can't mention how often I am thinking "hmmm, did'nt I write something like that before", and search backward to find something I wrote a half year ago, or say yesterday...

<comment><USER5> It always has, with the up arrow. Has a new word search (like ctrl+r) also. Not sure how long the hist is kept though.

<comment><USER6> You can configure it to store on disk (I believe this is the default).

Why do people keep saying "last time I checked bpython didn't do X" when I can't even remember a time when we didn't offer this feature ? :)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> This is a great project that's been posted here on HN a couple of times already. I like this project a lot but I can't use it on my Mac because it swallows all the libedit/readline keyboard shortcuts I've come to expect from any REPL. Shame.

<comment><USER6> This is one thing I actually have missed - if I'd known about all the nice readline key commands when I first started writing bpython I would've definitely included them. You're welcome to implement this yourself ! Otherwise, I guess it's just a matter of waiting until somebody else has enough time and enthusiasm to do it. Maybe I'll even do it myself one day ...

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> Bpython is good, but IPython with %edit and knowledge of a command line text editor has changed my workflow[1]. I wish more repls had this ability.

[1]: Maybe you can do it Bpython and I'm just not aware.

<comment><USER9> I don't know what %edit does, but if I guess that it has something to do with an editor, I use this in my dotfiles:

<https://github.com/Julian/dotfiles/blob/master/.pythonrc#L55>

which is perfectly REPL agnostic.

I prefer bpython over iPython for a bunch of reasons that I can't easily elaborate on from here on my mobile, but is definitely suggest people try them both out.

<comment><USER8> That's pretty nifty - thanks.

EDIT: Also, I have used bpython, but since I use python more on the data side as opposed to web (or something not data) IPython along with everything else make it too good to not use.

<comment><USER9> Yeah. That's where ipython probably hits the sweet spot, so that's reasonable.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Quick warning: Bpython crashes if you need to resize the terminal on OS X. And because it truncates the output to what can fit on the screen, it's essentially unusable for things with a long output. (Because if you need to scroll or resize the window to see the full output, it will crash.) It's amazingly good for most things, but occasionally I need to switch back to the default interpreter.

<comment><USER9> I can't say I've ever experienced this. I'll certainly try to reproduce when I get home.

Also bpython has a pager (F9), so it's definitely fine for long output. The interpreter also will write all output to stdout on quit, so you can do what you'd like then too.

I can't say I ever use the vanilla interpreter anymore other than when testing a bpython bug.

<comment><USER10> I just got this when doing print 10xx10000. Sometimes it crashes the first time I resize the terminal, sometimes I need to resize it a few times quickly. If you send me a note I can email you the error I get when it crashes.

<comment><USER6> I can vouch for us appreciating a bug report. :)

I assume you're using an up-to-date version of bpython ? I remember dealing with this kind of stuff a lot in the past (curses is terrible at this kind of thing) and I had considered it fixed, so please do send us bug reports if possible. ([https://bitbucket.org/bobf/bpython/issues?status=new&sta...](https://bitbucket.org/bobf/bpython/issues?status=new&status=open))

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> Also see iPython. Not as pretty but has an astonishing range of capabilities.

<comment><USER6> +1 (from bpython's author)

They just got a huge funding grant so IPython is definitely one to watch.

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> You can install bpython with a simple "pip install bpython". (This isn't immediately obvious from the website.)

<comment><USER7> I don't know if it's still like that, but last time I checked, I had to invoke

        python -m bpython.cli

instead of just bpython to get autocompletion for packages in your load path. This project hasn't seen any commits since last March. If anyone is up for it, it can really use some help. It's a very promising project and I like it a lot, if only it didn't have those couple of annoyances... Too bad I have no time to contribute, I have 3 projects of my own to deal with...

<comment><USER6> Hi there, I'm the author of bpython.

First thing's first: I'm not sure when you last tried bpython, but simply running "bpython" will provide import completion for your pwd.

As for there having been no commits since last March, well I'm not sure where you found that information - please see commit history on bitbucket page: <https://bitbucket.org/bobf/bpython/commits>

I started work on bpython about 5 years ago. These days I essentially don't do any work for it, but there are a couple of people who still take care of issues when they have time. It seems most people are pretty much satisfied with the project. If they aren't, I encourage them to either look at the open issues and try to close some of them, or try an alternative like IPython or DreamPie (IPython specifically just got a huge financial grant for development costs so it should be seeing a lot of work being done on it - should be very interesting to see what those guys do).

Either way, it just seemed a little odd to me to see bpython described as a "promising project" (after citing two falsehoods about the project) when I personally consider bpython as "complete" to a certain extent (and for any sane meaning of the word in software). Sure there are things I'd like to add, but bpython does exactly what I want and I rarely feel that there is something missing.

For those that disagree, either bpython is not for you (there are some great alternatives), or it is time to fork the project and send us your pull requests - we'll be very grateful for them. :)

Thanks,

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> I'm finding it extremely buggy. For example - pressing F8 when no code has been entered yet causes a TypeError. I will post this on the mailing list but considering it's an old (~4yrs?) project I'm surprised such issues haven't been fixed.

<comment><USER14> That's a bug in 0.12 that slipped in before the release. It's fixed in the hg mercurial and there will be a bugfix release soon.

<comment><USER13> great! I'm using pip to install.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> Tried "pip install bpython" on Windows 7, but I get an ImportError: No module named _curses.

<comment><USER14> There are instructions to get it working on Windows at [1] and [2]. Please let us know if they work for you.

[1] <http://docs.bpython-interpreter.org/windows.html> [2] [https://bitbucket.org/bobf/bpython/src/0f88fb19ee697096511d5...](https://bitbucket.org/bobf/bpython/src/0f88fb19ee697096511d5631b2ce050b27951e48/README.rst?at=default)

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> This looks like a great way to learn, too! The REPL is a fantastic place to play around.

Awesome.

</comment><comment><USER17> Just installed it and it is AWESOME! I love the auto indent and auto complete!

</comment><comment><USER18> Really cool. Does something similar exist for Ruby?

<comment><USER19> <http://pryrepl.org/>

also don't miss

<https://github.com/nixme/pry-debugger>

<https://github.com/pry/pry-stack_explorer>

and

<https://github.com/pry/pry-exception_explorer>

amongst others.

</comment></comment><comment><USER20> Oh you fancy huh? Nice work!

</comment><comment><USER21> This is awesome :)</comment>


Mangalyaan, India's First Mars Mission - <AUTHOR> http://www.nextbigwhat.com/mangalyaan-india-mars-mission-isro-297/ <comment><USER2> Those people claiming ISRO does it at a shoe string budget, because they reuse yes they do. But we are talking of a factor of more 10 here.

Let me put facts on ground. Go and visit any ISRO campus in India. See the kind of offices they work in, they kind of food canteens they eat lunch at, they kind of buses they travel in and take a look at how much they are paid. I assure you will be shocked. In fact shocked will be a mild statement to make. These people work on ordinary steel tables, with fans over their heads. Eat the 15 rupee rice-curry meal and travel in 20 year old buses. Well forget all that. Take a look at pictures of ISRO available over the internet, they look like to be taken in some one's garage than a space research organization.

Your average MacOS/iOS app development start up has better working conditions and infrastructure than any ISRO office in India. I'm not talking just about the work place infrastructure. Even the working gear, stuff like computers etc.

For the salaries and the net compensation ISRO offers no ambitious well qualified youth in India would be willing to work there- I'm even surprised they have even gotten this far. Note, you are comparing a salary for something like 20K per month with a salary of something like 100K a month Google offers. You get peanuts for building the most important pieces of technology in the history of mankind, compared to building websites for sharing cat pictures.

This is working on shoe string budgets to its very extreme. I hope these people get better funding in the future.

And yeah for those people too worked up about spending some 100th decimal rounding error of India's budget on a mars project. That is doing far more benefit to India's reputation, than a yet-another-scam-infested scheme.

<comment><USER3> I used to stay in a paying guest accomodation during my first job. My roommate was a guy who had just joined ISRO - we graduated same year but from different colleges. And I also had a chance to interact closely with 2 other friends who were working with ISRO at that time (one was a senior in college).

His payscale started at Rs.8000 per month (in 2001 that was less than $200usd). He was a production engineer. He would be up for next revision of payscale & promotion pending a review in 4 years! He knew that.

I used to wonder what keeps them motivated and I used to constantly question them. One common thread you find based on these conversations is that they are extremely satisfied with work - each of them used to say that what they are working on is UNIQUE that nobody else in ISRO is responsible for. And buck stops with them. They knew that.

That sense of ownership and the way the employees connect to a much larger cause is something unbelievable at ISRO, in my perspective. I used to be in awe of every conversation about his superiors, the work and their perspective of the organization in general.

I think it is an interesting case study in organizational behavior and what keeps you motivated with factors other than just money.

Teaching is another profession I think requires similar mindset. ISRO somehow hires the right kind of people, the employees within the organization are not so flamboyant setting examples for new hires and helps them connect in a way it makes people see contribution to a bigger cause.

Just my observation from what I have seen from close quarters.

BTW, it is also given that he knew they get pension after retirement, medical benefits & all such taken care of for his entire life because he is part of the organization.

Would love to read if there are any case studies on this.

<comment><USER4> As an organization, ISRO is political and bureaucratic. I have a good "set of friends and family" worked there or working there. There are good people and bad people (projects) there. You must be lucky to get into the right one. The pay scale is not competitive - But its not worse. The perks are really good. i.e Ultimately they get paid a little less than a private cos. The perks from the governments should not be discounted EVER. I work in a private co. which is much better than the Infosys/Wipro/etc s.w co's (also with a relatively much better pay). But I can tell you, ISRO job is better than mine. If I could opt today, I would go to ISRO.

With a little lesser pay, you also get peace of mind. This might not be important at 22s or 25s. But at 30, as a husband and a father, I can surely tell you ISRO gives much better lifestyle. i.e you can work for 2 hours or 16 hours if you enjoy that. Average employee productivity there sucks - literally. But at that non-competitive pay, government should not expect more.

You also have a "safe-job" and lesser work pressure. There are certain projects that are high-pressure jobs - but those are rare.

An important factor to keep you motivate might also be "working for your country". I have worked for large govt. projects for western countries and it give you ZERO sense of pride. It is "just another project". And I worked for a very small system for the transportation in my city. And just that feeling of watching that system being used in my country gives me a hell lot of sense of pride/achievement. I don't know if everybody feels the same way - but that is one of the biggest motivation factors for me (I don't work for ISRO / govt)

<comment><USER2> I agree with all you points.

Coming to ...

>>As an organization, ISRO is political and bureaucratic.

All set ups in India, regardless of private or government owned are extremely political. I've seen dirtiest form of politics in private companies, hailing to be champions of meritocracy which can put government firms to shame.

In fact politics in the number one reason which drives nearly every once-a- great-firm to ground.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Every time India space programs discussion comes out a group of people will bring up India's poverty and other problem that should be fixed instead of investing on space program.

I used to be one of those guys (I am from Bangladesh), then I looked at the actual cost of this space program and realized that its not a lot of money (~$70 Million) even by India's standard. For example, in india's domestic cricket tournament (IPL) one of their franchise was sold for $370 million.

I also don't buy the wholesale "you shouldn't do x, unless y is achieved/fixed" argument. It might apply to some instances, for example india defense budget is about $46 billion, a big portion of it could have been certainly spent to alleviate the living condition of poor Indians in general. But most of the problem in India and other south-east asian countries are corruption and inefficiencies, not (always) lack of funds.

<comment><USER6> One of the bigger questions is international aid.

"Since 2007 India has been the world's largest recipient of recorded remittances from abroad. In 2010 these inflows were worth $54bn (£35bn). UK foreign direct investment in India is considerable, reaching £1.8bn in the same year."

You can't really on the one hand claim your country is terribly poor, and needs handouts from other nations, and on the other play at being spacemen.

Thankfully the UK will stop sending foreign aid to India in 2015.

<comment><USER7> Maybe, just maybe, the British should not have colonized and looted India and parts of Asia and Africa for 300 years?

<comment><USER6> So you believe that the current British, should be paying money for crimes committed by their ancestors?

Personally, I don't think people should pay for other peoples mistakes, even if they happen to be born in the same country.

<comment><USER8> What if those people are still benefiting from other people's sins? If the current British don't want to pay maybe they can dispose of the ill-gotten gains i.e the country estates paid for by black slaves, the textile fortunes paid for by exploited Indian cotton farmers, the Kohinoor diamond in the Crown jewels etc.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Every single time India does something in Space, the bigots come out from the woodwork: but India is so poor! Let them solve poverty/hunger/education/water/toilets/ice-cream first, and then worry about space.

When JFK pledged to put a man on the moon in 1961, the US did not even have the Civil Rights Act[1]. Millions of blacks lived in poverty, and were denied basic rights. Schools were segregated. In large areas of the South, blacks were denied the right to vote. There were lynchings. People were being killed just for demanding the right to vote. And Vietnam War was picking up steam.

And you know what? The US still said that getting a man on the moon amidst all this was a worthwhile goal.

[1] [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1964](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1964)

<comment><USER10> Could you state your argument more precisely, please?

The original argument would be "don't do Space, solve povery/hunger/education...".

You point out that "poverty/hunger/education..." have improved despite Space.

This does only partly contradict the original argument, since there are plenty of severe and urgent problems today, including some of those from the 1961.

Additionally, can you explain the usage of the word "bigot"? Seems harsh.

<comment><USER9> > You point out that "poverty/hunger/education..." have improved despite > Space.

I did no such thing.

I'm saying that you can't wait to solve all problems before you take on space exploration. They are not mutually exclusive. One can do space exploration while simultaneously working to alleviate poverty/hunger/illiteracy/etc. The example of the US in 1961 was meant to illustrate that: the US was fighting a war in Vietnam, a massive Civil Rights movement at home, and still managed to put a man on the moon.

<comment><USER10> Fair enough.

All nations have budgets for a multitude of programs and can work simultaneously on different goals.

Obviously, they all draw from a single ressource, money, and therefore priorties have to be weighted carefully.

Overall I'm not getting many good arguments on how to handle this except "Why, things have improved, haven't they? Give me Star Trek" and "Bigots!".

I suspect that this is because Space fans are on average less affected by the above mentioned acute problems, more likely to benefit professionally from investment in space programs, and generally appreciate the nature of space missions: A difficult task, but with a clear solution through engineering.

<comment><USER9> You're making strawman arguments. I'm no space fan; I'm just a fan of science and tech. I believe that a country the size of India can multitask: it can work on alleviating poverty/hunger/etc. while at the same time spending a little bit on space exploration. In fact, name any space-exploring country, and I can point out some social ill that money could be solving.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> Here's a nice FAQ by Emily Lakdawalla of The Planetary Society:

[http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily- lakdawalla/2013/1031123...](http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily- lakdawalla/2013/10311230-india-prepares-to-take-flight-faq.html)

</comment><comment><USER12> You can follow the live telecast of the launch:

[http://isro.org/scripts/livewebcast-mars- orbiter.aspx](http://isro.org/scripts/livewebcast-mars-orbiter.aspx)

[http://isro.org/scripts/livewebcast- marsorbiter.aspx](http://isro.org/scripts/livewebcast-marsorbiter.aspx)

[http://webcast.gov.in/live/](http://webcast.gov.in/live/)

Text-only updates: [http://www.isro.org/pslv-c25/c25-status.aspx](http://www.isro.org/pslv-c25/c25-status.aspx)

</comment><comment><USER11> T+150 secs. PSLV Stage-1 separated. PS-2 lit.

T+260 secs. PS-2 separated. PS-3 lit.

PS-3 burn out. PSLV enters a long coasting of 28 minutes, after which 4th stage will be triggered.

T + 32 minutes. Coasting almost done. Stage 4 ignition in few moments. Altitude is a bit higher due to over-performance.

PS-4 started. 4th stage performance normal. Yay!!

T+44 minutes. PS-4 cutoff. Spacecraft separation success :) Spacecraft successfully placed in elliptical orbit around Earth. 300 day long journey begins now.

[http://i.imgur.com/NX9MNsF.jpg](http://i.imgur.com/NX9MNsF.jpg)

</comment><comment><USER13> tambrahmrage (well, India's oatmeal) covers mangalyaan

[http://tambrahmrage.tumblr.com/post/66074106804/mangalyaan](http://tambrahmrage.tumblr.com/post/66074106804/mangalyaan)

<comment><USER14> made my day

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> Here's live webcast from Youtube: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DcSDOkDvyQ](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DcSDOkDvyQ)

</comment><comment><USER16> Thanks JD. Good coverage on Mangalyan. For many Indians who are criticizing this Mission saying that the money would be better spent on toilets or teachers, this is an eye opener: Why Explore space [http://launiusr.wordpress.com/2012/02/08/why-explore- space-a...](http://launiusr.wordpress.com/2012/02/08/why-explore- space-a-1970-letter-to-a-nun-in-africa/)

</comment><comment><USER17> I have met a lot of Brilliant people from India that have blow me away on their technical knowledge. What is stopping them from helping to fix the infrastructure problem that India has? A lot of educated people seem to be seeking a way out to another country. While most of the people in India are living in poverty and have no chance of a decent education.

Forget Mars, for India the problems are too great at home.

<comment><USER18> Unfortunately the massive social problems of India (or any society for that matter) are not fixable by technology for the most part. For the part that are susceptible to a technological (and managerial) solution, there's plenty of interesting work going on.. e.g. [http://www.infowars.com/cashless-society- india-implements-fi...](http://www.infowars.com/cashless-society-india- implements-first-biometric-id-program-for-all-of-its-1-2-billion-residents/)

<comment><USER17> Well by technical I mean the engineering fields also. I assume there are people in the less technology focuses engineering fields such as civil and mechanical engineering.

But social problems are a different breed. It would be remarkable if India could do what China is doing infrastructure wise at least. My knowledge is limited and I am still an outsider looking in at both countries.

Edit: The link you provided mentioned corruption as a big problem in India. Engineers cant solve that problem.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> Live youtube broadcast here: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DcSDOkDvyQ](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DcSDOkDvyQ)

</comment><comment><USER11> ISRO stream is up: [http://220.127.116.11/isro](http://184.108.40.206/isro) (needs Windows Media Player).

</comment><comment><USER20> The website seems to be a bit slow, probably because of some traffic spike?

JD, I see that you are using wordpress. If you haven't already installed any caching plugin, please do: [http://codex.wordpress.org/WordPress_Optimization/Caching](http://codex.wordpress.org/WordPress_Optimization/Caching)

</comment><comment><USER21> India is making baby but firm steps in space exploration. wishing that ISRO has a success with this mission.

</comment><comment><USER22> Why ISROs Mars Mission is cheapest?

[http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2013-10-31/news...](http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2013-10-31/news/43561612_1_moon- mission-chandrayaan-i-isro)

<comment><AUTHOR> Much of the designs & research is "adapted". Hence, cheaper?

<comment><USER23> no I think we should think of that good old "the NASA space pen" vs. "the russian pencil" analogy.

<comment><USER24> you did mean that sarcastically right? If not you might want to read this: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Pen#Uses_in_the_U.S._and_...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Pen#Uses_in_the_U.S._and_Russian_space_programs)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> I watched the lift off

Good launch and good start. All 3 stages complete. It's in space in a matter of seconds. Need another 45 mins to declare launch success and 10 months to reach mars!

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> One would imagine that scientists believe less in rituals. ISRO scientists pray at the Thirupathi temple before every mission.

<comment><USER26> Its not like NASA scientists don't have their rituals too. The Russians, as well, have a history of sticking to their superstitious habits also.

Science doesn't mean you have to be an emotion-less robot.

<comment><USER27> India's superstitions are far more deeper and affect common people in their daily life. Kudos to ISRO on this mission, as they might have faced lots of opposition to their operations from many sides. Even the Nobel laureate scientist C.V Raman opposed space explorations in his time, saying that they are meddling with Gods.

For example, Mars is considered as a malicious planet in their astrology and people fear its effects next to Saturn. It is hard for one to find a matching person to marry if he/she is are afflicted by Mars, because one of the belief is that such afflicted person's in-laws will face untimely death. This belief causes so much grief for the parents looking for alliance (ref: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mangal_Dosha](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mangal_Dosha)).

Hopefully scientific missions such as this will help the people to shed their unfounded fear and live better life.

<comment><USER28> >>> Even the Nobel laureate scientist C.V Raman opposed space explorations in his time, saying that they are meddling with Gods.

Could you provide some citation here? As far as CV Raman's religious inclinations were concerned, my understanding is that he was an agnostic [1].

Being a scientist himself, I don't think it would have been in his nature to stifle the spirit of scientific inquiry in the name of religion.

[1] - [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C._V._Raman](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C._V._Raman)

<comment><USER27> I have read about C.V Raman's objections to space missions in Tamil language sites only.

I dug up the following for your reference:

[http://new.modernrationalist.com/2012/07/science-vs- religion...](http://new.modernrationalist.com/2012/07/science-vs-religion- nietzsche/)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER29> Well done by ISRO scientists. PSLV was proven vehicle in ISRO's arsenal. They yet to prove on GSLV.

</comment><comment><USER11> Here's a nice step-by-step animation describing the launch, tracking, spacecraft separation, and solar panel and antenna deployment:

[http://isro.org/launchtosolarpanel.aspx](http://isro.org/launchtosolarpanel.aspx)

</comment><comment><USER30> And [http://www.dailymail.co.uk/indiahome/indianews/article-24804...](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/indiahome/indianews/article-2480424/VISUAL- EDIT-India-little-better-Ethiopia.html)

<comment><USER31> Indian government is already spending billions on poverty problem. Money spent on this mission is less than 1% of money spent on welfare. You can't stop everything else and just focus on poverty. Poor people are not the only ones living in India, there are educated people who need jobs too.

<comment><USER30> "The significant problems we have cannot be solved at the same level of thinking with which we created them." \--Einstein

<comment><USER31> elaborate this gem of a statement please, idiot.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> Report: India PSLV successfully launches MOM en route to Mars

[http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2013/11/india-mars-debut- pslv...](http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2013/11/india-mars-debut-pslv-mom/)

</comment><comment><USER32> Article on spaceflightnow.com:

[http://www.spaceflightnow.com/pslv/c25/131105launch/#.UnkG4O...](http://www.spaceflightnow.com/pslv/c25/131105launch/#.UnkG4OLi28E)

</comment><comment><USER33> If you cannot get the DD and ISRO sites, you can catch the live stream at [http://www.livestream.com/spaceflightnow](http://www.livestream.com/spaceflightnow)

</comment><comment><USER34> Faster streaming at - [http://spaceflightnow.com/pslv/c25/status.html](http://spaceflightnow.com/pslv/c25/status.html)

</comment><comment><USER4> Just had a thought - Outsourcing Space Exploration - makes sense?

<comment><USER11> This is already being done at various levels. Rocket motors, parts, satellites etc are built by various private companies all over the world. Many space agencies provide launch and telemetry services. And, now we've exciting new space-companies like SpaceX, VirginGalactic, Icarus Interstellar etc.

More info:

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commercial_Spaceflight_Federati...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commercial_Spaceflight_Federation)

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_spaceflight](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_spaceflight)

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Space_non- governmental...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Space_non- governmental_organizations)

By the way, ISRO has Antrix:

[http://www.antrix.gov.in/](http://www.antrix.gov.in/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER35> Thank you for sharing. :)

</comment><comment><USER36> I suppose the mass of 1337 kg increases the PR effect of the tax payer funded show?

<comment><USER36> The rupee is in semi-free fall, the economy is tanking; yet there is a bunch of downvotes if I point out that Mars missions are paid by the tax payer and add nothing to the quality of life of an Indian.

Except maybe for the patriots that are unable to distinguish between government and people. Stupid money spending is nothing to be proud of.</comment></comment>


Senators close to finishing encryption penalties legislation: sources - <AUTHOR> http://www.reuters.com/article/us-apple-encryption-legislation-idUSKCN0WB2QC <comment><USER2> I really wish Dianne Feinstein would resign. She is consistently horrible.

<comment><USER3> I remember writing to her in Crypto Wars I. The response I got back from her staff was infuriating.

She will not be missed.

<comment><USER4> I'm sure not the first one to ask -- can you share??

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> This legislation reminds me that as crazy as people like Donald Trump are, there are equally crazy people already serving in our government.

<comment><USER6> I don't think our legislators are "crazy", I just think they fall too far on one side of some values spectrum. In this case, Feinstein cares too much about national security and federal LEO tools and not enough about personal and data security.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> How could this legislation possibly pass constitutional muster? You're essentially forcing companies to create code for you.

<comment><USER8> I always wondered what stopped the legislature passing laws that are unconstitutional, having it canceled a few years later by the supreme court and then passing a similar law again and having that take a few years in a large cycle. Unconstitutional laws basically become laws with informal sunsetting clauses.

<comment><USER9> Often part of disputing the constitutionality of a law is requesting that the court considering it also temporarily put its enforcement on hold, as I understand it. If the court chooses to (and in a case where a law that was already basically ruled unconstitutional has been passed again, one assumes it would so choose), that law is simply ineffective until a final ruling is obtained. Naturally, you can appeal the decision to hold the law's enforcement, but the law is on hold unless and until a higher court overturns it.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> I'm kinda curious how tech companies are supposed to implement this. Send encryption keys to a central repo? If I encrypt a file, and store it on my phone, is phone manufacturer liable for it? I would assume not, but god knows how this law is written.

</comment><comment><USER4> > It would expose companies like Apple Inc.

Apple seems to shift taxes to more tax-friendly countries to avoid high taxes in US.

How much time before they figure how to move headquarters and their legal standing outside of US jurisdiction??

</comment><comment><USER11> The only answer to the illegitimate use of force is wide scale civil defiance.

Our government is corrupt and must be defied.

<comment><USER6> Remember that this isn't law yet and it hasn't passed the scrutiny of the US court system.

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> It's always like that when you deal with the State, first it gives you the freedom to argue and tries to convince you, if you don't, then a single piece of legislation is enough to coerce you.</comment>


Intel Readies for Internet of Things Invasion with Linux - <AUTHOR> https://www.linux.com/news/embedded-mobile/mobile-linux/747615-intel-readies-for-internet-of-things-invasion-with-linux <comment><USER3> I was pretty excited about the Galileo[1] board when it was announced (and a bit disappointed they laid me off before I could buy some at a discount). Might still buy one retail, since it's a good match for a project I have. It is _not_ trying to be an x86 Raspberry Pi, as it has no video and more I/O, though I consider it a mistake to hang most of the GPIO pins off SPI. I also think they ought to have ensured before release that a wider range of OSes ran on it — various RTOSes, free and otherwise, and FreeDOS, to make it a drop-in replacement for the ol' PC-with-parallel-port.

[1] [http://arduino.cc/en/ArduinoCertified/IntelGalileo](http://arduino.cc/en/ArduinoCertified/IntelGalileo)

</comment><comment><USER4> Intel really missed the boat on the cell phone front. I doubt they are excited about missing out in the IOT market as well. Look for more announcements from them in this area in the weeks/months to come.

<comment><USER5> It's funny how Intel and Microsoft were the ones calling for the Internet of Things all the time, and now that we are finally building it, they have no product fit for it.

<comment><USER6> umm... Intel DOES have a product fit for it, no? I mean isn't that what the post is about?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> I must admit I'm very confused by the "Internet of Things". It seems largely to be a ploy by big data and cloud infrastructure types to hype investment in their sectors to absorb information from dumb yet internet connected sensors, whereas what it should be is smart end devices, yet conspicuously there isn't much in the way of development in the edge devices, while the cloud services are all ready and waiting, to do . . . what exactly?

With the NSA stuff having tarnished the word "cloud" maybe the marketers are hoping Internet of Things will divert attention away from the fact that they're suggesting even more invasion of privacy.

<comment><USER8> It is a nebulous concept but I believe it is a combination of smart end user devices and data gathering sensors... obviously in the IT world any new (relatively speaking) concept gets hijack for marketing by vendors.

Cheap low power chips that could be embedded in everything from your clothes to your pills I believe is what Intel is aiming at.

<comment><USER9> Yeah. Of course, what they're actually achieving is - predictably - <USER2> less low power than existing embedded ARM solutions. If you want a good laugh take a look at the spec page for Quark sometime.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Earlier this year I did some development for a hardware designer who has been getting into energy-harvesting. He had a Bluetooth-LE profile miroprocessor running wired up to an energy-harvesting chip, meaning that we were able to build a network of Bluetooth-LE devices that didn't require any power supplies.

These prototypes are working (the app is made to render the whole kaboose as a point-cloud) and as far as I can tell, the only reason these things haven't hit the market yet, is timing. He's also not the only designer working on such products - as a result of contact with the LE/Infinergy industry, I see quite a few other startups attempting to 'capture' this space before it launches.

So I predict it won't be long until we have such devices out there. I'm already using one of the prototypes to find my keys .. only problem is, I can't use it to find my phone, where the app is installed .. ;)

</comment><comment><USER6> Remember that networked hard-drive by sea gate? We could probably use that here too. Instead of storing all data in cloud (and thus increase network delay) we could simply store it in a local hard drive which is accessed by these devices directly via LAN.

Though i am confused about why the focus just sensors? I see it as micro- controllers connected to the internet, thus enabling a lot more things.</comment>


Venezuelans Are Seeking a Haven in Crypto Coins as Crisis Rages - <AUTHOR> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-06-15/venezuelans-are-seeking-a-haven-in-crypto-coins-as-crisis-rages?utm_content=tech&utm_campaign=socialflow-organic&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&cmpid%3D=socialflow-twitter-tech <comment><USER2> The majority of Venezuelans neither know, nor care for crypto coins, primarily because they don't have money in any form in the first place (and they never had that much to begin with, even before the crisis).

It says here: "Bitcoin trading volume in Venezuela jumped to $1.3 million this week".

This just shows how insignificant this is. These are the kind of money a supermarket located in a good spot can make in Latin America in a day, much less in a week.</comment>


What's your autism quotient? (link updated) - <AUTHOR> http://www.isle-of-avalon.co.uk/cgi-bin/aq.cgi <comment><USER2> I can't take tests like these without analyzing how each answer affects the outcome, and I don't trust my subconscious to keep its mitts off my answers when it knows how to game the test.

22

<comment><USER3> That sounds pretty autistic to me...

<comment><USER4> I got 14, and I'm the same way - I'm curious about gaming the test:-)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> 50 screens? Merely completing it is a sufficient test. They should have just put all the questions on one page.

(If anyone wants to do that, I'll switch the link.)

<comment><USER6> This test also fails to take into account the "grumpy old bastard" effect.

I won't announce my score, other than it in the set of the Nth-prime-numbers where N is also prime.

PS - there are 50 questions, but they don't require whole-page refreshes.

PPS - I'm _not_ suggesting you are a grumpy old man!

<comment><USER7> Do you count 2 as the 1st prime or the 0th?

<comment><USER6> I'm using 2 as the first prime.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> 23

..I'm a very good driver, only drive on the driveway, only drive on Saturdays...

<comment><USER9> I got a 23 too! Definitely got 23 ..

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> 10\. For a lot of the questions I wanted to answer "it depends". Social situations, for example, can be very fun or very boring, depending on my mood and the people involved.

<comment><USER11> I'm not sure how well the test distinguishes between those who are actually autistic, and those who simply cannot bear social situations under any circumstances.

(I'm also not happy about the lack of distinction between "x" and "strongly x". There ought to be _some_ gradation.)

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> Here's one that doesn't require Flash: <http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/9.12/aqtest.html> . Unfortunately they've misconfigured their website, so you get the source of the results calculator rather than the result; but if you copy aqtest.html and aq.cgi to a handy local webserver (and change the perl path), it works out.

Not sure if it's the same test or not, of course! If it is, I scored 37.

</comment><comment><USER12> More reliable test:

  Your autism score is:
0

 <input type="button" value="Click This!" onclick="javascript:upd();">

</comment><comment><USER13> 38\. I don't act nearly that autistic, though. I think that's mostly through training. You wouldn't guess that score if you met me.

<comment><USER14> That's a pretty interesting point, actually. I used to be HORRIBLE in pretty much any social situation, but then I decided to make social psychology a "hobby" of mine, and learned to pick up cues (facial tics, body language, etc...) about what people were telling me with their body, tone of voice and vocal mannerisms; and after doing that for a few years, social things became much much easier for me.

<comment><USER11> I kind of went the opposite way; after many years of trying to be OK in social situations and more or less pulling it off, I finally admitted to myself that actually, but for the societal conditioning that people without rich and varied social lives are somehow missing something, I really don't like having people around me for any great length of time... and ok, my ability to cope in social situations is more or less shot, but the rest of the time (which for me, is the majority of the time) I'm a lot happier - and the rare times when I do get a feeling of wishing there was someone close to talk to, I know that it's usually because I'm bored, and finding something to do will send it on its way.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> What's your ADHD quotient? I clicked 3 radio buttons before deciding I don't care about my quotient.

</comment><comment><USER16> Best question, _"are you fascinated with dates?"_ (Y) & _"do you collect facts & information"_ (Y) ...32 ... so that means what? I'm always a bit sus of these tests anyway. Now to go add this to my blog post ...

<comment><USER17> >are you fascinated with dates?

Dates, dates, or dates?

<comment><USER16> Yeah good point. All of them, Bit of a sweet tooth so 'dates' are definitely in, "dates", ISO8601, yes. Even getting a "Date" with Perl! ~ <http://datetime.perl.org/?Modules>

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> I got a 26, I kind of wonder how these scores correlate to a Myers-Briggs profile (INTJ here).

I'm guessing the I's will have higher score than the E's since this appears to be mostly related to introvert vs. extrovert categorization.

<comment><USER18> I scored 26 as well. INTP: the cause of and solution to all of my problems.

</comment></comment><comment><USER19> just from memory, they ask if you can remember long digit strings, and if you take time to return from distractions. being good at hacking involves both. is this a self-selecting pool of people with more autistic traits?

22

</comment><comment><USER20> What I found curious about this test is that I think many of my answers have changed over time. I scored an 18 today, but I bet I would have scored somewhere in the high 20's when I was a kid.

<comment><USER11> Interestingly, a few years ago I took the same test and scored 20 (vs. 37 just now)... on the other hand, I seem to come out with a different MBTI result every time I take that test too. Perhaps I have DID :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> 35 .....interesting

</comment><comment><USER22> Damn, I got 17 the exact average.

<comment><USER23> Me too - I feel so average.

</comment></comment><comment><USER24> Heh its a a Cosmo quiz for geeks :P

29

</comment><comment><USER25> 16

<comment><USER26> 16 too

</comment></comment><comment><USER27> 28.

John.

<comment><USER28> 28 here, too.

[insert random speculation here about average score of successful yc alums]

<comment><USER9> YC should put this on their application. It would be interesting to see a PG essay on it someday. "Autism doesn't matter" :-)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER29> hrm, 21</comment>


Chinese authorities detain Apple employees suspected of selling customer data - <AUTHOR> https://www.hongkongfp.com/2017/06/08/china-uncovers-massive-underground-network-apple-employees-selling-customers-personal-data/ <comment><USER2> Apple does not allow your iOS iCloud data to be encrypted in a manner where Apple cannot access it. As is alluded to in this article.

Privacy advocates and privacy caring IT specialists have repeatedly asked Apple to offer such an option, but so far Apple has decided that regular people would turn such an option on, forget their password, then ask Apple for help and would be unhappy with their brand experience if Apple could not help them out.

If Apple would implement such an option where Apple could not access your data, shenanigans like the ones outlined in the article could not happen. It would also allow people who feel the state will misuse their info use iCloud for the first time.

There could be something good that comes out of this. These bad news could pressure Apple into finally offering an optional iCloud service where only you can see your data.

Answers to likely responses: "just use a different cloud service": on iOS, for cloud backups, there are no alternatives: it's iCloud or nothing.

<comment><USER3> Given the way iCloud security works I'm not sure iCloud was breached at all [1]. Other reports seem to indicate that it was employees at Apple stores and third party resellers who had access to names, phone numbers and Apple IDs [2]. Presumably they would try to phish them later on.

[1] [https://youtu.be/BLGFriOKz6U?t=32m35s](https://youtu.be/BLGFriOKz6U?t=32m35s)

[2] [http://www.foxbusiness.com/features/2017/06/07/chinas-new- cy...](http://www.foxbusiness.com/features/2017/06/07/chinas-new- cybersecurity-law-tested-by-iphone-information-theft.html)

<comment><USER4> Given that with 2FA enabled Apple can't even reset your password (which has caught the tech press out before [https://thenextweb.com/apple/2014/12/08/lost-apple-id- learnt...](https://thenextweb.com/apple/2014/12/08/lost-apple-id-learnt-hard- way-careful-two-factor-authentication/#.tnw_RBRG7wAB)) I agree that iCloud itself is unlikely the source.

It's probably a marketing or support database that contains basic data. Annoying but not a serious breach.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Can confirm. I've had someone contact me on snapchat and show me screenshots of Apple's internal tools and offer to run queries for $$$. He was willing turn off 2FA, change the email, and reset the password (thus, giving me access) for $$$$.

He told me that he texts a friend who calls and pretends to be the customer in question, and texts him all the verification questions he has to ask as part of SOP.

Many AppleCare employees work from home, so I can see it is difficult to track and stop this sort of thing.

<comment><USER6> Did you report that?

<comment><USER5> I emailed firstname.lastname@example.com and never received a response.

Generally, when I need to get the attention of big tech corporations I talk to a friend who works there. Unfortunately, I don't really know anyone who works at Apple.

<comment><USER7> You don't have any contact details in your profile; check mine and send me any details you can. I'll ping the appropriate people.

<comment><USER8> Also, we need your ss# and your keys

<comment><USER7> If HappyTypist isn't comfortable emailing my @apple.com email address they can file a bug at [https://bugreport.apple.com](https://bugreport.apple.com) and email me the bug # instead.

Assuming this story is true, I would personally like to catch the person responsible.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> So now after forcing Microsoft to have a Chinese version of Windows 10 without spyware, Blizzard forced to show the Overwatch loot boxes odds and this, we are living in a World where China, "Great Firewall" China is now the biggest advocate of users privacy.

What is happening?

<comment> dis-sys oh, they can just quit the Chinese market by following what google did almost 10 years ago. look at google's share price & revenues, surely you don't need the Chinese market to be successful.

fb is another good example.

<comment><USER10> Apple is huge in China. I agree that Apple doesn't need China to be successful, but that's a lot of money left on the table: for what purpose? For principles? For the subset of your customers who are concerned about privacy?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> This is always the argument that makes my friends and family call be paranoid in data privacy discussions: "Even if the company has good intentions when they collect your data, there's no telling who else might end up with access to it in the future."

Obviously this is bad overall, but at least now I can point to a specific example of this happening.

<comment><USER12> The example I previously used was this old case:

Google Engineer Allegedly Fired For Accessing Private User Information To Stalk Teens

Source: [http://www.businessinsider.com/google-engineer-stalked- teens...](http://www.businessinsider.com/google-engineer-stalked-teens-spied- on-chats-2010-9?IR=T)

<comment> awinter-py and microsoft accessed a hotmail account to investigate a leak [https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/03/microsoft- will-n...](https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/03/microsoft-will-no- longer-look-through-your-hotmail-to-investigate-leaks/).

One perspective is that every company gets to screw this up once and then has to get serious about privacy.

But it's possible _this is happening all the time_ , victims don't know their saas vendor was complicit in releasing their information. If the companies ever catch the perps, they're quietly fired in exchange for a non-disclosure agreement that serves the interests of all parties (except the consumer).

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> > Reporters successfully obtained a trove of material on one colleague — > including flight history, hotel checkouts and property holdings — in > exchange for a payment of 700 yuan (US$100).

So it's not just email addresses / metadata from iCloud. This implies that 1) at least some iCloud data is stored unencrypted at rest, and 2) employees can query this data using internal tools.

This seems pretty bad.

<comment><USER14> This does not necessarily imply that the data is unencrypted at rest. The query tool or the query backend could handle decryption seamlessly. S3 offers similar encryption at rest that is invisible to authorized requesters. If the story was that someone raided an Apple data center, stole hard drives, and leaked customer data, then we would have reason to assume that.

<comment><USER13> I assumed "encrypted at rest" to mean encrypted with the user's passcode, meaning it could only be decrypted from a properly authorized user session, not some internal apple tool.

<comment><USER15> > Privacy advocates and privacy caring IT specialists have repeatedly asked > Apple to offer such an option, but so far Apple has decided that regular > people would turn such an option on, forget their password, then ask Apple > for help and would be unhappy with their brand experience if Apple could not > help them out.

From Darthy's comment 30 minutes ago [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14513803](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14513803)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> Hoping comments can resist the urge to turn this into an apple bashing thread.

Having someone purposefully steal your data from the inside doesn't mean you don't care about privacy.

They likely won't reveal anything but I'm curious how they could get the info out of Apple systems. Most companies of Apple's size lock down work stations to the point of slowing down workers efficiency to keep customer data safe. Especially with their over seas operations.

<comment><USER17> Hum. No one is giving some slack to a bank for having rogue employees. Part of the job of being a large organisation is ensuring your employees do not misbehave. In this case at the very least ensure they have minimum access to users data.

<comment><USER18> Or setting up the technology so nobody at apple can even _access_ the unencrypted data. Much more effective than policies that you expect people to follow.

I work at a fairly security conscious company, and the only data I can't access is that encrypted at the consumer's end.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> This being the Chinese government it could also mean they try to discredit a strong foreign platform that is really hard to control in terms of privacy and security. No doubt Apple is giving all governments headaches not only the US.

If people believe they still can be hacked or tracked while using Apple equipment less people might be tempted to use it.

Not telling the sale of data didn't ever happen. I think if it's true that Apple should one up their security even more.

</comment><comment><USER20> Is Apple storing everyone's data in China / do these 'bad apples' in China have access to every iCloud customers or is it just a local Chinese concern?

<comment><USER21> Per the article, it's not clear at this point which user (Chinese or non- Chinese or both) they were able to obtain.

</comment></comment><comment><USER22> Apple's focus on privacy has always been a splinter in the eye of Chinese authorities.

I strongly believe that this is an excuse Chinese authorities had been looking for that will use to pressure Apple in China at the same time create the illusion to the general public to not trust Apple.

I find it especially suspecious that the Chinese media put so much emphasis the privacy concern of this event and in modern Chinese culture, privacy is much less regarded as compared to western countries.

Anyone remember the propaganda while Google was being driven out of China? Straight up false info about Google were broadcasted on CCTV-1, the prime time national channel. A lot of my friends in China became very patriotic and viewed Google as some sort of evil corporation trying to undermine Chinese culture.

<comment><USER23> > Apple's focus on privacy has always been a splinter in the eye of Chinese > authorities.

So was UK authorities, US authorities, and lots of other authorities, there is no need to single out China in this case.

> I strongly believe that this is an excuse Chinese authorities had been > looking for that will use to pressure Apple in China at the same time create > the illusion to the general public to not trust Apple.

Yes, it could be the excuse for Chinese authorities, but this case could have happened anywhere else in the world given the way Apple stores information, and similar incidents have happened before for other companies like mentioned in other comments. So I don't see a strong evidence that this particular incident is related to some ulterior motive of Chinese government.

> I find it especially suspecious that the Chinese media put so much emphasis > the privacy concern of this event and in modern Chinese culture, privacy is > much less regarded as compared to western countries.

The entire incident _is_ about privacy issues, what else do you expect the media to talk about? New iPhone colors?

> Anyone remember the propaganda while Google was being driven out of China? > Straight up false info about Google were broadcasted on CCTV-1, the prime > time national channel. A lot of my friends in China became very patriotic > and viewed Google as some sort of evil corporation trying to undermine > Chinese culture.

As far as I remember, Google did not want to comply with Chinese regulations on censorship, so it was not allowed to operate in China, simple as that. I don't think people had that bad of an impression about Google, more like they felt bad losing a good search engine or simple just don't really care.

<comment><USER22> I suppose time will tell :)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> >The suspects, who worked in direct marketing and outsourcing for Apple in China [...]

Uh, would they be given unrestricted access to user data? Or does every Apple employee have access to this data and are left to exercise restraint?

And what about Apples claim that data is encrypted at rest?

</comment><comment><USER25> Don't all large companies have auto auditing of access to customer data?

<comment><USER26> lol

Sorry, but having worked for 3 large companies (not apple, or Google, or any in the same field), the auditing is purely just for show. They claim it publicly, but very little is actually done to ensure the safety of that data. When I started as an entry-level tech at 2 of them, I was given direct access after just a couple of days.

I'm sure there are plenty that _do_ treat their customer data securely, but in my limited experience, that's not many of them.

</comment></comment><comment><USER27> i have seen hn commenters praise apple for "taking a stand on privacy". but how can anyone believe that when they _collect_ so much personal data about the people who purchase their hardware? the old apple did not do this.

1\. collecting data on users for months and years after purchase, 2. storing it electronically on remote computers, 3. some connected to the internet. yes, this surely points to a company is concerned about user privacy.

if something goes wrong can you sue apple?

we should expect every hardware vendor from laptop mfrs to the rpi foundation to be silently collecting data from their customers long after the merchandise is purchased. they need to do this, because...

wtf?

1\. collecting data on consumers and 2. storing it online.

#1 is incompatible with a pro-consumer stance on user privacy.

#2 is a guarantee that others besides the company are going to get that data, whether the consumer is told about the breach or not.

</comment><comment><USER28> I find it odd that a company that touts user privacy (an immediate pivot when their iAds venture failed spectacularly) and security would have their user data so easily stolen. There is absolutely no way these corrupt Apple employees should have even had access to this type of sensitive information.

</comment><comment><USER29> I see a lot of people defending Apple but I wonder how would they react if this was Microsoft.

<comment><USER17> I wonder how they would react if it was Goldman Sachs...

</comment></comment><comment><USER30> Where is it being sold? I wanna check if I or family members have been made.

</comment><comment><USER31> This is why I use Android without GApps.

You have to trust the company, the employees, its security, the goverment.. Better to think of everything you upload as already posted in pastebin. It's relatively accurate.

</comment><comment><USER32> Suddenly potential workings behind celebrity nude photo exposure scandals, the most recent one just a month/weeks back, becomes more clear. Of course, brute forcing, weak passwords, or phishing, may still have happened, but this sure sounds convenient and perhaps not even expensive for hackers sharing the cost. It also sounds troubling with government staff exposure and all.

<comment><USER33> In fairness I don't think this was necessary for the celebrity leaks. With a celebrity, with much of their lives being public knowledge I can imagine it was probably easy enough to guess their security questions.

</comment></comment><comment><USER34> Oh snap. And Apple has been touting itself as the champion of privacy in comparison with Google, Facebook and Microsoft... This doesn't look good for them

<comment><USER21> It's not Apple's policy to sell information. This is employees engaging in criminal behavior. Still not good for Apple, but it's correctable (firing and pressing charges as appropriate; institute stronger internal policies on both hiring and information access). Facebook and Google can't stop selling our information without going out of business (or a major pivot).

<comment><USER35> Google doesn't sell the information either. (You can buy ads, though.)</comment></comment></comment>


Credo: Static code analysis for Elixir with a focus on consistency and teaching - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/rrrene/credo <comment><USER2> Heard a talk about this at the last Elixir meetup in Cologne, looks pretty amazing – especially because of the focus on great explanations.

(Should copy more lints from [https://github.com/Manishearth/rust- clippy](https://github.com/Manishearth/rust-clippy) though! ;))

</comment><comment><USER3> I just ran this on some old code and it told me a function was too complex (it is!) and could use refactoring, that's some smart linting :-)

<comment><USER4> The implementation is actually quite simple. It checks that the function length is more than 4 lines of code AND that you are not Robert Martin. If that's the case, it prints "Your function is too complex".

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> I don't know if it's coincidence, but over in [https://www.reddit.com/r/elixir/](https://www.reddit.com/r/elixir/) today, someone happened to post

"Automated Elixir code review with Github, Credo and Travis CI" [https://medium.com/@fazibear/automated-elixir-code-review- wi...](https://medium.com/@fazibear/automated-elixir-code-review-with-github- credo-and-travis-ci-986cd56b8f02)

</comment><comment><USER6> I first happened upon Credo while building a console-based version of 2048 (this was the early stages of learning Elixir). Running Credo on my code for the first time was a delight. It made me instantly wish for similar tools for our non-Elixir code bases at work.

For those venturing into Elixir, Credo is especially useful. While I'm experienced in functional programming, Credo was a great way to learn more idiomatic usage of Elixir.

While Haskell has the fantastic ghc-mod for guided refactoring, Go has gofmt, and Ruby has rubocop among others, I find Credo to be a nice blend of the best features of all these tools. I also appreciate the UI, which groups feedback into 3 visually-distinct categories: Code Readability, Refactoring Opportunities, and Warnings [1]. This makes it makes it easy to prioritize your changes.

If you'd like more background on Credo, The Elixir Fountain [2] recently hosted a nice podcast with the creator of Credo, René Föhring [3].

[1] [http://credo-ci.org/](http://credo-ci.org/) [2] [http://elixirfountain.com/](http://elixirfountain.com/) [3] [https://soundcloud.com/elixirfountain/elixir-fountain- rene-f...](https://soundcloud.com/elixirfountain/elixir-fountain-rene- fohring-2016-06-13)

</comment><comment><USER7> We have been using this as a build step for our services, it's possible to configure what exactly it will fail you on. Has been very helpful and not only helped us ensure good code, but taught us some good Elixir conventions as well!

</comment><comment><USER8> This looks great. I've been using dogma and haven't found an inline function disable like this appears to have with @lint. I'll give it a try soon.</comment>


Show HN: Narrandum – customer journey mapping for remote teams - <AUTHOR> https://narrandum.com <comment><AUTHOR> Narrandum creator here. Hi everyone!

Here's a one-minute demo video to give you a quick overview of what it's all about:

[https://youtu.be/w_QZyDjnpQ4](https://youtu.be/w_QZyDjnpQ4)

Or just go ahead and sign up - it's free!

Now for little bit of backstory.

I've been a UX and digital service designer for a long time. In almost every project we'll find ourselves doing design sprints or workshops to map out the customer journey, in order to try and understand people's needs, goals, hopes, concerns, etc.

The workshop itself is often pretty fun, with everyone sharing their perspectives and working together to create a blueprint for whatever we're trying to create. Lots of Post-Its get stuck to walls, and photos of happy collaboration ensue.

Then comes the slog of turning all this output into something useful which will support and guide the rest of the project. That part isn't so fun - <USER2> the output is often a pretty but ignored artefact that hangs on the wall, dead and forgotten. And that's why I created Narrandum.

It's a tool anyone can use to create beautiful customer journey maps, super fast. It not only speeds up the process of gathering and presenting knowledge and insights, it also helps everyone to understand them. With Narrandum, service blueprints are dynamic digital documents which can be constantly updated throughout the project.

And although it was designed with on-site workshops in mind, it also works great for remote teams. There's no substitute for being in the same room, but with Narrandum, you can get pretty close.

Happy to answer any questions or listen to feedback.</comment>


Show HN: My humble little side project to support OSS and developer happiness - <AUTHOR> http://rubypair.com

<comment><USER2> Just a heads-up: signing in with GitHub automatically puts you in _both_ the Remote and In-Person lists if you just cancel out of the form that pops up after you authenticate.

<comment><AUTHOR> Yup. That's intentional for now. We assume that you signed up for a reason. You just didn't tell us exactly why. So we make a broad assumption. ;)

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> What does this site do? Is it a directory of developers who are willing to pair, or something more/else? Can I find out without signing up?

<comment><AUTHOR> Ok, we kind of glossed over that. I'll update the about page.

In a nutshell: we're about helping kindred developer spirits find one another for local/remote pairing. Later on, I'm hoping to add more features to actively mediate the experience.

I'd love to integrate with pair.io to help other people remote pair. But, for now, I use a simple arrangement of SSH+tmux+vim+skype to remote pair with folks when I do.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Why is this Ruby-specific? I see other language tags in other people's interests.

<comment><AUTHOR> Totally. Nola already had the domain so we went with that. I still see the app as an experiment. Once we get things more nailed down, I'm thinking about opening it up beyond Ruby.

Besides, frankly, we "Rubyists" tend to be polyglots. That is to say: there's nothing stopping Java developers from signing up. :D</comment></comment>


Invites to Yahoo's new social network, Mash - <AUTHOR> http://www.inviteshare.com/site.php?id=50 <comment><USER2> The social networking craze is becoming more than a little absurd. The TechCrunch preview of Mash doesn't mention anything that doesn't put it firmly in the me-too category. Don'y they understand that catching up to Facebook isn't enough? Launching a social networking site isn't enough. They have to do something qualitatively different than everyone else, or users won't have any reason to load the page. And the Mash platform, which TechCrunch suggests is forthcoming, doesn't qualify. Proprietary social networking platforms are already hugely overhyped with Facebook, so another, less popular one isn't going to make a splash.

That said, who knows what Yahoo has up its sleeve. Answers is good, and Pipes (while not, from what I gather, too incredibly popular) is certainly innovative. So hopefully before too long, they'll do some neat jiu jitsu with Mash.</comment>


Size Is The Enemy - <AUTHOR> http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/001025.html <comment><USER2> Great, now I'll get 50,000 "Reduce Your Size" spams a day instead.

Hmm, those could actually be useful...</comment>