text:
Made for Each Other? Making Your Site Browser Compatible
As of December 2011, this topic has been archived. As a result, it is no longer actively maintained. For more information, see Archived Content. For information, recommendations, and guidance regarding the current version of Internet Explorer, see Internet Explorer Developer Center.
Robert Hess
Developer Relations Group
Microsoft Corporation
June 2, 1997
Start Simple
Client-side Scripting
Browser Sniffing
Multiple Trees
Database Templates
Your Call
I often find myself talking with people about the new features coming in the next version of Internet Explorer, or available from Windows NT Server, for serving up Web pages. After I've showed them the cool new features, and described how they might be used in a Web document, people usually get anxious to try a new feature on their own sites.
Then the question always comes up:
"How do I get this to work on the browsers currently available?"
I just look at them with a blank stare. If you could do this with a current browser, it wouldn't be a new feature, now would it? It always amazes me how, on one hand, Web developers clamor for some special, whizzy feature that they think would really improve their Web site, yet they want it to work on every browser their audience might be using.
It can't be ignored that compatibility, however frustrating for Web designers and browser developers, is an important issue that needs to be considered carefully. It can also be a very, very difficult problem to solve. At some point in your Web design, you will have no choice but to alienate some faction of your potential audience, either by adding a feature they can't see, or by making a site so simple looking that surfers seeking "entertainment" will ignore it.
There are several ways to create a Web site that provides an appropriate level of compatibility from platform to platform, and browser to browser. Let's take a look at a few different approaches; perhaps one will be appropriate for your projects.
Start Simple
Create a Web site focused on the "Lowest-Common-Denominator" approach. This means the site doesn't use any fancy HTML, or rely on embedded applets, or client-side scripting. It's just information, simply presented but well structured. Actually, creating a "generic" but representative site is a pretty good exercise to check the quality of your message and information. Far too many sites rely so heavily on special effects and fancy graphics that their creators don't realize how little real information they provide.
Once you have set up an HTML 2.0 version of your pages, then you can start adding some visual features that allow newer browsers to utilize some of their functionality. This can easily be done in a compatible manner with things such as the <FONT> element, for affecting the color and typeface of the text, and the <TABLE> element, for helping fine-tune the layout of the page. And, of course, there is always the <IMG> element, but remember that some surfers still use text-mode browsers—so, if you really want to make your pages backwards compatible, be careful how you utilize this.
Cascading Style Sheets
As Cascading Style Sheets (CSS) become more common, you can create some nice rendering effects. However, it is very easy to get into compatibility problems with CSS, so be careful how reliant your content is on the form you give it. I do this by simply commenting out the <STYLE> block of the page I am working on, in order to test its rendering. If you avoid using the STYLE attribute within your page (use CLASS instead) you can quite effectively turn off all style-sheet features of your page and ensure that you haven't accidentally added any CSS-specific features.
Client-side Scripting
Occasionally, you may really, really want to add something that won't quite work on older browsers. One example is if you want to utilize the margin settings of CSS to create a shadowed-text effect. With CSS, this can be done by drawing the text first in the shadow color, then drawing the text a second time in the foreground color--but first positioned over the top by adjusting the margins. Unfortunately, this results in the text being displayed twice (or more, if you are doing a fancy shadow) on browsers that don't understand CSS. But if I utilize client-side scripting, I can code this so that the second occurrence of the text comes from the script code, and thus won't appear on older browsers.
Here is a simple example.
It is fairly common to use Visual Basic® Scripting Edition (VBScript) or JavaScript to do in-stream page rendering, utilizing the document.write method like this. Done right, it can greatly increase the flexibility of your pages.
Browser Sniffing
In the above example of shadowed text, I used "browser sniffing" to determine when to utilize CSS. In this particular case, I simply relied on VBScript to render the CSS-specific code. Now that Netscape will also support CSS, this code would need to be a little more robust to truly utilize CSS on all browsers that supported it.
In client-side scripting, you can access the "navigator" object to help you determine in which browser, and in which version of the browser, your page is currently being rendered. With that information, you can do a number of things to present a compatible page. But avoid simply redirecting the page to a page for that specific browser. This would prevent the user from simply using the "Back" button to back out of your site, since each time the user backs up through such a redirect page, it slams them back into your site. While you might not mind this, the user definitely would.
Server-side Rendering
The best and most common place to utilize browser sniffing is on the server. When a Web browser requests a page from your site, several pieces of information are passed along with the request. One is the "UserAgent" string, a text string that attempts to identify the browser being used to assist the server in presenting the appropriate information. In order to leverage the UserAgent string, you need access to server-side programming of some sort, either in a CGI application, a Perl script, an ISAPI application, or via Active Server Pages. But once you've tackled that, a lot of options are available for providing the user with backward-compatible pages.
Multiple Trees
Another common way to achieve compatibility with other browsers is to provide several different versions of your site.
You could design one for simple, text-mode browsers, one for limited graphical browsers, one for browsers that support frames, and another for browsers that support embedded Java applications or ActiveX controls. While I don't necessarily recommend writing a half-dozen versions of your site, such an approach might be appropriate, depending on how you balance your need for compatibility against your wish to utilize advanced features of the browser. And, while you could simply use server-side browser sniffing, which automatically redirects the user to the version of the site best suited to that browser, this isn't necessarily recommended. Consider allowing the user to select his or her own tree to view, since the text version and non-frame version of your site will most likely download and render faster then the more advanced versions. Not everybody is using a T1 line for Internet connections, so if you are going to go to the trouble of creating multiple ways to view your information, you might as well let the user select which view to use.
Database Templates
One way to increase the flexibility of your site is to leverage a database for rendering as much information as possible. If your content comes from a database, it can be relatively simple to create and manage multiple versions of your site simultaneously. By carefully creating appropriate templates, you can easily publish a site as simple or as complex as you want. Combine this with all of the above methods, and you suddenly have a very rich and broadly targeted way to provide your information to as many people as possible. And since there are many different ways to populate a database, it is often easier to manage and update your site then if the entire site was simply contained in raw HTML.
Your Call
Only you can make the right choice for your specific implementation and abilities. Just remember that compatibility doesn't come for free. Sometimes you need to leave some segment of the surfing population behind to take advantage of some specific feature or technology.
Robert Hess is an evangelist in Microsoft's Developer Relations Group. Fortunately for all of us, his opinions are his own and do not necessarily reflect the positions of Microsoft.
Further reading:
Cascading Style Sheets
Client-side scripting
Server-side rendering


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C&F Small Compartment System Fly Box - Off White - FFS-2
A small box with one spring loaded clip in the lid and eight compartments in the base. It also includes a clip holder for a C&F nail knot pipe. Accepts all 1500 series System Foams.
|Ship Days
|within 24 Hours
|In Stock
|Off White
|Base Image
Shootouts and Comparison tests
- 5-weight Fly Line Shootout and Buyer's Guide
- 5-weight Shootout
- 5-weight Reel Shootout
- 8-weight Reel Shootout
Still can't decide? We've got a staff of fly fisherman to help.
Call Us at 1-888-413-5211

subset: commoncrawl


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Stocks to watch on the Australian stock exchange at the close of trade on Tuesday:
■ Downer EDI (DOW) - up 18¢, or 5.2 per cent, at $3.65
Engineering firm Downer EDI's earnings will be hit by the company's settlement of a legal dispute over a tunnel contract in Singapore.
■ Lend Lease Group (LLC) - up 19¢, or 2.15 per cent, at $9.03
Lend Lease will carry out a $1 billion revamp of Sydney's convention and entertainment centre precinct in a public private partnership with the NSW government.
■ PaperlinX (PPX) - down 0.1¢, or 1.64 per cent, at 6¢
Paper, packaging and signage company PaperlinX will embark on its restructure of its struggling European operations with a new chief financial officer.
■ Transfield Services (TSE) - up 5.5¢, or 3.2 per cent, at $1.775
Transfield Services has won several new contracts worth $140 million, including work on two major energy projects.


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Get an overview of this hotelSuburban hotel with free area shuttle and restaurant
Popular property highlights
Situated in the business district, this hotel is within 6 mi (10 km) of Laurel Park Place, Northville Downs, and Oasis Golf Center. Twelve Oaks Mall and Paradise Park are also within 6 mi (10 km).
Hotel Features
This smoke-free hotel features a restaurant, an indoor pool, and a fitness center. Free self parking, a free area shuttle, and a free shopping center shuttle are also provided. Additionally, a bar/lounge, a coffee shop/café, and a spa tub are onsite.
Room Amenities
All 238 rooms offer WiFi, 24-hour room service, and LCD TVs. Premium bedding, coffee makers, and free weekday newspapers are among the other amenities available to guests.
Guest Highlights
- Good location
- Proximity to shopping
- Helpful staff
- Clean guestrooms
- Comfy beds
Sheraton Detroit Novi Hotel
Hotel Amenities
Hotel Amenities
In addition to an indoor pool, Sheraton Detroit Novi Hotel provides a spa tub and a fitness center. The hotel offers a restaurant and a coffee shop/café. A bar/lounge is on site where guests can unwind with a drink. A computer station is located on site and wireless Internet access is available for a surcharge.
Business-related amenities at this 3.5-star property consist of a 24-hour business center and meeting rooms. Event facilities measuring 20,000 square feet (1858 square meters) include a conference center. This business-friendly hotel also offers multilingual staff, gift shops/newsstands, and coffee/tea in a common area. Guests can use the indoor pool at a partner property. An area shuttle within 2 mi and a shopping center shuttle are complimentary for guests. Complimentary self parking is available on site.
Sheraton Detroit Novi Hotel is a smoke-free property.
- 24-hour front desk
- Bar/lounge
- Coffee shop or café
- Concierge services
- Conference space
- Dry cleaning/laundry service
- Elevator/lift
- Express check-out
- Fitness facilities
- WiFi (surcharge)
- Number of floors - 7
- ATM/banking
- Meeting rooms 18
- Total number of rooms - 238
- RV, bus, truck parking
- Porter/bellhop
- Restaurant
- Safe-deposit box at front desk
- Conference space size (meters) - 1858
- Free self parking
- Spa tub
- Indoor pool
- Wedding services
- Breakfast available (surcharge)
- Coffee/tea in common areas
- Free newspapers in lobby
- Free shopping center shuttle
- Gift shops or newsstand
- Computer station
- Multilingual staff
- Luggage storage
- Conference center
- Number of meeting rooms - 20
- Free area shuttle
- 24-hour business center
- Conference space size (feet) - 20,000
- Smoke-free property
- Television in common areas
- Free use of nearby fitness center
Family Friendly Amenities
- Family Hotel
- Indoor pool
- Area shuttle (complimentary)
- Refrigerator (on request)
- Microwave (on request)
- Cribs/infant beds (complimentary)
Available in all rooms: Wireless internet access ( USD 9.95 per night )
Available in some public areas: Wireless internet access ( USD 9.95 per day )
Free self parking, RV, bus, truck parking
Room Amenities
- Premium TV channels
- Pay movies
- Premium bedding
- Free weekday newspaper
- Air conditioning
- Phone
- Coffee/tea maker
- Free bottled water
- Refrigerator (on request)
- Private bathroom
- Free toiletries
- Hair dryer
- Shower/tub combination
- WiFi (surcharge)
- Iron/ironing board
- In-room safe
- Desk
- Microwave (on request)
- Daily housekeeping
- Room service (24 hours)
- Connecting/adjoining rooms available
- Free cribs/infant beds
- Rollaway/extra beds (surcharge)
Where to Eat
Breakfast is available for a surcharge and served each morning between 7 AM and 10 AM.
Twenty-One-One-Eleven - This restaurant specializes in American cuisine and serves breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Guests can enjoy drinks at the bar.
24-hour room service is available.
Nearby Things to Do
An indoor pool and a spa tub are on site. Other recreational amenities include a fitness center.
If you have requests for specific accessibility needs, please note them at check-out when you book your room.
- Accessible bathroom
- Roll-in shower
- In-room accessibility
Hotel Policies
Check-in time starts at 3:00 PM
Minimum check-in age is 21
Check-out time is noon
Payment types
Children and extra beds
- Children are welcome.
- Rollaway/extra beds are available for USD 20.00 per night.
- Free cribs (infant beds)!
- Pets stay free
- Dogs only
- 2 per room (up to 60 lb)
You need to know
Extra-person charges may apply and vary depending on property policy.
Optional extras
- Breakfast fee: USD 14.95 per person (approximately)
- Fee for in-room wireless Internet: USD 9.95 per night (rates may vary)
- Fee for wireless Internet in public areas: USD 9.95 per day (rates may vary)
- Late check-out fee: USD 99
- Refrigerator fee: USD 15 per stay
- In-room microwave fee: USD 10 per stay
- Rollaway bed fee: USD 20.00 per night
Hotel Name
- Detroit Novi
- Detroit Novi Sheraton
- Detroit Sheraton Novi
- Novi Detroit
- Novi Sheraton
- Sheraton Detroit Hotel
- Sheraton Detroit Hotel Novi
- Sheraton Detroit Novi
- Sheraton Novi
- Sheraton Novi Detroit
- Sheraton Detroit Novi Hotel Novi
- Sheraton Detroit Novi Hotel
We should mention
The property has connecting/adjoining rooms, which are subject to availability and can be requested by contacting the property using the number on the booking confirmation.


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Posted 07-31-2008 at 12:04 PM by Bixie
In my applications Wine Emulator is checked as an add on. In my terminal window, when I ask for Wine, it says, "command not found". If I go to the Wine website and try to download Wine, it say "Wine already installed. I don't know what's happening.
Posted in UncategorizedViews 416 Comments 0


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This isn't your father's business advice. These talks offer unconventional, and uncommonly useful, advice on leading, working, creating and living better.
If you are like us you may be feeling exhausted as you try and manage a busy schedule. This event will explore ideas on how to keep everything in balance.
Please note that at our Salon events we do not have live speakers. Typically about 50 people of all ages get together to watch 3 or 4 TED Talks and then have a friendly and interesting discussion on the ideas shared.
2221 Park Place
El Segundo, California, 90245
United States
2221 Park Place
El Segundo, California, 90245
United States
- Event type:
- Salon (What is this?)


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Chile rejoices as last miner is rescued
Scenes of mass jubilation greeted the last of the Chilean miners to emerge from the depths of the earth early this morning. Foreman and leader of the men
Luis Urzua ascended after a 70-day ordeal – no-one has ever been trapped so long and survived.
Mr Urzua ascended smoothly through 2,000 feet of rock, completing a 22 and a half-hour rescue operation that unfolded with remarkable speed and flawless execution. Before a jubilant crowd of about 2,000 people, he became the 33rd miner to be rescued.
The crowd in Camp Hope, down a hill from the escape shaft, set off confetti, released balloons and sprayed champagne as Mr Urzua's capsule surfaced, joining in a rousing miners' cheer.
In Chile's capital Santiago, hundreds gathered in Plaza Italia, waving flags and chanting victory slogans.
In nearby Copiapo, about 3,000 people gathered in the town square, where a huge screen broadcast live footage of the rescue. The exuberant crowd waved Chilean flags of all sizes and blew on red vuvuzelas as cars drove around the plaza honking their horns, their drivers yelling 'Long live Chile!'.
Mr Urzua told Chilean president Sebastian Pinera immediately after his rescue: 'We have done what the entire world was waiting for.
'The 70 days that we fought so hard were not in vain. We had strength, we had spirit, we wanted to fight, we wanted to fight for our families, and that was the greatest thing.'
The president told him: 'You are not the same and the country is not the same after this. You were an inspiration. Go hug your wife and your daughter.'
Video: Amazing footage of the Chilean miners rescue operation
With Mr Urzua by his side, he led the crowd in singing the national anthem.
The rescue at the San Jose mine in the Acatama desertexceeded expectations every step of the way.
Officials first said it might be four months before they could get the men out but it turned out to be 69 days and about eight hours.
Once the escape tunnel was finished, they estimated it would take 36 to 48 hours to get all the miners to the surface. That got faster as the operation went along and all the miners were safely above ground in 22 hours, 37 minutes.
US president Barack Obama said the rescue had "inspired the world".


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Good Life Good Food: Chef Bud's Recipe for T-Bones and Peppers
Mon, 09 Jun 2014 16:23:14 GMT —
T-Bone Steak with Garlic and Peppers
2 ea 12 to 16 oz Choice T-Bone Steaks
2 Tblspn kosher salt
2 Tblspn coarse black pepper
For the Garlic and Peppers
¼ Cup extra virgin olive oil
1 ea green bell peppers, cleaned seeded and cut into thin strips
1 ea jalapeno pepper, sliced into thin slices
1 ea yellow or yellow bell pepper, cleaned seeded and cut into thin strips
2 Tblspn chopped garlic
¼ Cup parsley
Preheat grill to medium high
Season WELL with kosher salt and coarse black pepper your T-Bones. Let steaks set out for 15 to 20 minutes before cooking to remove the chill. Place on grill and grill 4-6 minutes per side for medium rare. Turn steak one ¾ turn to mark steak, and flipping once.
In a cast iron skillet, heat the oil, when the oil is hot add the peppers, garlic and parsley. Cook over high heat until garlic and peppers begin to brown, about 2 minutes. Remove from the skillet and serve over the steaks immediately.
The beauty of this dish, is the spontaneity! The flavors come together quickly and create a fantastic summer time dish. Enjoy!


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Gov. Perry appoints Adriana Blanco of Fort Worth as TWU's new student regent
DENTON — TWU's new student regent is determined to be a leader who makes a difference both in her university and professional career.
Junior Adriana Blanco is TWU's first Hispanic and first, first-generation student regent. She is enrolled in the TWU and University of North Texas dual degree program in engineering and math, majoring in math at TWU and electrical engineering at UNT.
Ms. Blanco is a student leader at both TWU and UNT. She has served as president of the TWU Campus Activities Board (CAB), vice president of the TWU Student Government Association, vice president of UNT's Society of Women's Engineers and as a TWU student orientation leader. She is a member of Who's Who Among Students in American Universities and Colleges, the TWU National Society of Collegiate Scholars and the UNT chapter of Eta Kappa Nu – the honor society for Electrical Engineers. She also is a recipient of the TWU Presidential Scholarship and the UNT Siemens Scholarship.
It was in her role as TWU CAB president that she was responsible for bringing poet and author Maya Angelou to the Denton campus in March.
"I wanted to 'reach for the stars' to bring a dynamic, nationally known speaker to campus to show our students what CAB could do," Ms. Blanco said. "I learned so much from making the initial contact with Dr. Angelou to coordinating her visit with TWU staff. It is an experience that I will never forget."
Ms. Blanco's determination to make a difference extends to her future career plans. She wants to be an electrical engineer and implement "green" electricity in third world countries.
"Having electricity is so important to the development of communities that have nothing," Ms. Blanco said. "I believe that there are many ways we can help people in need get access to electricity using methods that don't harm the environment."
It is this drive to succeed that caused Ms. Blanco to want to be the TWU student regent.
"I want to continue to make a difference at my university and learn how the system works, so I can be a good advocate for students and do what I can to make TWU even better," Ms. Blanco said.
Gov. Rick Perry appointed Ms. Blanco to a one-year term as the TWU student regent, which will expire May 31, 2013. She is replacing Christina Wagoner of Carrollton.
In 2005, Gov. Perry signed legislation mandating that each public university board of regents include one student member. Student regents have the same powers and duties as the other members of the board, with the exceptions of voting and being counted to determine a quorum.
Media Contact:
Amanda Simpson
Director of Media Relations
page updated 10/2/2014 10:59 AM


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The first in a series of Bungalow style homes that fit nicely on the lots of Pinochle Point in Sunset Valley.
This is a small home with 2 bedrooms, 1 bath and driveway for 1 car.
The fireplace is unique in that the red exterior bricks will not be shown to clash with any exteriors of the home.
To download, click here!
For a list of all my creations, click here!
Written at 01:26 on Friday, 30 October 2009 by TammyB.


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Morning everyone,
Welcome back to 2014! We hope you had a wonderful, refreshing break.
As you settle back into the office, I thought I'd let you know about some new and recommended resources for Windows desktop IT professionals that are available on TechNet:
Projecting to Wireless Displays with Miracast in Windows 8.1
If you're interested in this kind of content, be sure to check out the Springboard Series blog, which offers structured guidance and resources to help you deploy the latest desktop operating system and ease your implementation experience.
You can get a monthly email update by signing up to the Springboard Series Insider or even following our official Springboard Series Twitter feed for Windows Desktop IT Pros.


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only $7.97
No additional charge for Utility Library subscribers
Updated: June 7, 2007
Supported Platforms: Microsoft Windows 98, ME, 2000, XP
The first step in using WMatch is to select the directories you want to compare. You can select a source directory and a target directory by clicking on the directory button next to the input box. This will present you with a dialog giving you the option to select a local/networked folder or an ftp directory. Once you have selected your directories, you can choose from two methods to compare them, by date and size or by contents. Comparing files using dates and sizes is a very fast process because it only needs to read two values from each file. Comparing files by contents is much slower because it reads both files byte-by-byte until it encounters a difference. As you can imagine, if you have many large files, this could take some time. If the files turn out to be the same, WMatch will have read through the entire file to discover this. While this method is slower, it is the most accurate. Also, this method has the advantage of working most effectively with ftp compares, since file times can be very different between your local machine and ftp site.
As WMatch compares the files in the directory it will place a graphical indicator in the middle column between the source and target files. These indicators tell you the result of the comparison. The following is a list of possible results:
- A blue checkmark indicates that the files have the same size and date.
- A blue arrow pointing toward the source file or target file indicates that the file is newer.
- An X indicates that the files have different sizes or do not have the same contents (when doing a compare using contents).
- A clock represents that the files have the same size but one of the files is newer.
- A green equals sign indicates that the files are an exact match (this symbol will only appear if you have done a compare using contents).
Once you've completed a compare, there are several actions you can take. You can select one or many files and copy or move the selected files from the source directory to the target directory. You can also delete the selected files.
If you select a single file, you can view the differences between the source and target versions. Clicking on "View differences" will launch a new window displaying the source file's contents on the left and the target file's contents on the right. Lines of the file that are different are highlighted and if the file is large you'll appreciate the ability to skip to the next difference in the file. "View differences" is only good for text files. It will work for non text files, but it's not able to show the differences, as the view will stop at the first ASCII 0 character.
Inside this Utility
PCMag's Utility Library
- Block Spyware Before It Starts
- Manage Every File on Your Hard Drive
- And lots more!


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TRS MP Kavitha Campaigns in Khairatabad Over GHMC Elections - HMTv
Mon, Jan 04, 2016, 03:58 PM
Nizamabad MP K Kavitha has launched a campaign for GHMC election in Hyderabad. As part of it, TRS MP visited Khairatabad constituency and addressed the people amid TRS activists. She has stressed the need for people's participation in GHMC election and hoped that people will vote to TRS party members. The MP took a dig against earlier governments and made satirical comments on Chandrababu.


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(For more resources on Tcl, see here.)
Once we know how to create and sign certificates, the next step is to create a simple solution that would allow us to build an infrastructure using these keys. We'll create a server that handles creating certificates for clients and exports a simple service over HTTPS.
The following is a diagram of how communication from the client will look like:
Our example will be performing the following steps:
- The client requests a new key and certificate from the server; the client will check if the other side is valid by comparing the server's certificate against certificate authority's certificate, which the client needs to already have
- The server provides the client with new key and certificate
- The client can request information over HTTPS using newly created key and certificate
- The server will be able to authenticate the other side by checking if the certificate is signed by certificate authority
All further communication can use HTTPS as a proper key has been provided to the client.
Our example will have a server that can create a complete certificate authority, create, and sign its own key. It will also offer a HTTPS server that will only accept requests from clients using a valid certificate. We will use the recently mentioned code for managing CA and server / client keys.
Additionally, our server will provide an SSL-enabled server for clients to request certificates. This server will not require a valid certificate. This would allow any client to request a certificate that would then be used for communicating over HTTPS. This is needed because the HTTPS server will not allow any incoming connections without a valid certificate. We'll create a dedicated service just for creating the key and a signed certificate that accepts connections without a valid certificate.
While the server will not be able to authenticate clients at this point, client will be able to use CA certificate to verify that a server can be trusted.
In a typical application, the client would start by requesting a new certificate if it does not have it. The HTTPS server would be used for communication, once the certificate has been issued.
In order to simplify the example, the protocol for requesting a certificate is very simple. A client connects over the SSL-encrypted socket. At this point the client does not have a valid certificate yet, so this will not be checked. It sends a single line specifying the command, common name, and e-mail address for the certificate. The server generates it and sends a response. It sends a single line containing a result, which is true or false, followed by the size of the key and certificate file in bytes. Next the key and certificate are sent as binary data. Since the client knows their sizes, it reads this back to key and certificate files. After retrieving a valid certificate, the client can now connect over HTTPS using a valid certificate and issue other commands.
In many cases, the infrastructure could also be extended to provide multiple servers. In this case, only one server would offer certificate creation—for both clients and servers. From then on communication could be made with all servers.
Server side
Let's start by creating server side of our sample application. It will be built up from two things—a server for issuing certificates and the HTTPS server for invoking commands for clients with valid certificates. The server side of the application will store all keys and certificates in the keys subdirectory. It will keep CA key and certificate, its own key and certificate, and certificates of all other systems in the network. Although keeping all certificates is not necessary, it is used as a mechanism for detecting whether a specified client has already had its key generated or not.
First we'll set up our server name, create a Certificate Authority, and create this server's certificate, if it does not exist yet:
set server "server1"
sslkeys::initialize CN "CertificateAuthority"
set sslkey [file join $sslkeys::keydirectory $server.key]
set sslcert [file join $sslkeys::keydirectory $server.crt]
if {![file exists $sslkey]} {
sslkeys::createAndSign server $server CN $server
Next, we'll set up a tls package to use these keys and that requires a valid certificate:
tls::init -keyfile $sslkey -certfile $sslcert \
-cafile [file join $sslkeys::keydirectory ca.crt] \
-require true
Now let's set up the HTTPS server along with a very small application serving all requests:
package require tclhttpdinit
Httpd_SecureServer 9902
proc secureWebServerHandle {sock suffix} {
set certinfo [dict get [tls::status $sock] subject]
set client ""
foreach item [split $certinfo ,/] {
if {[regexp "^CN=(.*)\$" $item - client]} {
set text "Clock: [clock seconds]; Client: $client"
Httpd_ReturnData $sock text/plain $text}
Url_PrefixInstall / secureWebServerHandle
Our server will listen for HTTPS requests on port 9902 and return information about the current time and client identifier, extracted from the SSL certificate. Since we require the certificate to be signed by a valid CA, we can assume that we can trust its value.
We can now proceed to creating code for requesting certificates. We'll start by setting up an SSL-enabled server socket that, as an exception from the tls::init invocation shown in the preceding code, does not require a valid SSL certificate. It will listen on port 9901 and run the certRequestAccept command for each new connection:
tls::socket -require false -server certRequestAccept \
Whenever a connection comes in, we configure the channel as non-blocking, set up binary translation, and set up an event each time it is readable:
proc certRequestAccept {chan host port} {
fconfigure $chan -blocking 0 -buffering none -translation binary
fileevent $chan readable [list certRequestHandle $chan]
Every time a channel is readable, our command will try to read a line from it. If it fails, we close the channel and do nothing:
proc certRequestHandle {chan} {
if {[catch {gets $chan line} rc]} {
catch {close $chan}
} else {
If reading a line did not produce an error, we proceed with checking whether the end of the file has been reached for this channel or not. If it has, we also close it:
set eof 1
catch {set eof [eof $chan]}
if {$eof} {
catch {close $chan}
} else {
Otherwise we check if a line has been read successfully. The variable rc stores whatever the gets command returned; if a complete line has been read, it will contain the number of characters read. Otherwise it will be set to 1:
if {$rc < 0} {
If reading the line succeeds, we split the text on each white space to a list and assign each element of the list to variables. The first one is the command, only certificate being supported, followed by the common name and e-mail values to be used in certificate.
set line [split $line]
lassign $line command commonName email
if {$command != "certificate"} {
close $chan
We'll also use the common name as the filename for the keys. Usually common names would be identifiers used throughout the system, such as GUIDs.
The next step is to create a full path to the destination key and certificate files, and check if the certificate file exists:
set keyfile [file join \
$sslkeys::keydirectory $commonName.key]
set certfile [file join \
$sslkeys::keydirectory $commonName.crt]
if {[file exists $certfile]} {
If it exists, a client with this identifier has already requested this certificate. In this case, we send information that we refused to create a certificate and close the channel.
if {[catch {
puts $chan "false 0 0"
flush $chan
close $chan
}]} {
catch {close $chan}
} else {
If a certificate has not been created yet, we create it and get the size of both files.
sslkeys::createAndSign client $commonName \
CN $commonName EMAIL $email
set keysize [file size $keyfile]
set certsize [file size $certfile]
Then, we send a response to the client specifying that a certificate has been generated and the size of both files.
if {[catch {
puts $chan "true $keysize $certsize"
The next step is to send the contents of both files and flush the channel to make sure it gets sent:
set fh [open $keyfile r]
fconfigure $fh -translation binary
fcopy $fh $chan
close $fh
unset fh
set fh [open $certfile r]
fconfigure $fh -translation binary
fcopy $fh $chan
close $fh
unset fh
flush $chan
If writing the response produced an error, we assume that unless all data was sent, an error might have occurred. We close the socket and remove both keys and the certificate file.
}]} {
catch {close $fh}
catch {close $chan}
catch {file delete -force $keyfile}
catch {file delete -force $certfile}
} else {
We also try to close the file handle first—if an operation such as fcopy failed, the handle might have been left open and we need to close the file handle in order to delete it.
If the operation succeeds, we close the connection and only remove the private key. The certificate is left on the server for reference purposes, and for checking if it has already been passed to a client.
catch {close $chan}
file delete -force $keyfile
Finally we need to enter Tcl's event loop:
vwait forever
We now have a complete server that allows the creation of SSL keys and certificates, and offers functionality over HTTPS protocol only to authenticated peers.
(For more resources on Tcl, see here.)
Client side
The next step is to create a client side of our application. It will contain two parts—a client for requesting a certificate and a test of whether issuing HTTPS requests using a valid certificate works afterwards. In order to make it easier to run both the server and client from the same directory and / or on the same computer, client stores all of its keys in the keys-client subdirectory. If both the server and client are run on the same computer, the client will copy the ca.crt file from the keys subdirectory. If not, it is needed to copy ca.crt from the keys directory on the machine where the server is running to the keys-client subdirectory on the machine where the client will be run.
We'll start creating client code by creating a command to retrieve a certificate. It accepts the hostname to connect to and the common name, and the e-mail to send.
First we will open a connection, set it to blocking and binary mode, and send a request to the server.
proc requestKey {hostname name email} {
set chan [tls::socket $hostname 9901]
fconfigure $chan -blocking 1 -translation binary
puts $chan "certificate $name $email"
flush $chan
Now, we read the result from the server and assign results to variables. If the server refused to create a certificate, we show an error.
gets $chan result
lassign [split $result] result keysize certsize
if {!$result} {
close $chan
error "Request to generate certificate denied"
} else {
If the server has created keys and certificates, we copy and save them in the keys-client directory. The common name is used as a base for the key and certificate filename. After that we close the connection to the server and return.
set fh [open [file join keys-client $name.key] w]
fconfigure $fh -translation binary
fcopy $chan $fh -size $keysize
close $fh
set fh [open [file join keys-client $name.crt] w]
fconfigure $fh -translation binary
fcopy $chan $fh -size $certsize
close $fh
close $chan
We can now move to initializing our client. We start by loading the tls and http packages, then set up the https protocol for http package and assign arguments passed to script as variables.
package require tls
package require http
http::register https 443 tls::socket
lassign $argv host name email
After this we check arguments that were passed. If either host or name is empty, we print out usage information on standard error and exit.
If only email is empty, we set it to $name@localhost, where $name is the common name passed as argument.
if {($host == "") || ($name == "")} {
puts stderr "Usage: [info script] host name ?email?"
exit 1
if {$email == ""} {
set email "$name@localhost"
Now we create filenames of the key and certificate, and check if a certificate file exists:
set keyfile [file join "keys-client" "$name.key"]
set certfile [file join "keys-client" "$name.crt"]
if {![file exists $certfile]} {
If it does not exist, we set up tls to use the CA certificate and require a valid certificate from the remote peer. Next, we invoke the previously created requestKey function, passing the host to connect to, the common name and e-mail.
We also print the status—either that we've successfully requested the keys or that the keys were already present on the filesystem.
tls::init \
-cafile "keys-client/ca.crt" \
-require true
requestKey $host $name $email
puts "SSL keys retrieved"
} else {
puts "SSL keys already present"
We now initialize tls again, using key, certificate and CA information, requiring the remote peer to have a valid certificate.
tls::init \
-cafile "keys-client/ca.crt" \
-keyfile $keyfile \
-certfile $certfile \
-require true
Now we send an HTTPS request to the remote host. This connection will leverage the newly retrieved key and certificate:
set token [http::geturl "https://${host}:9902/test"]
Finally we check the result from the HTTPS request. If it is an error or eof status, we print out the information. If the request succeeds, we print out information about response.
switch -- [http::status $token] {
error {
puts " ERROR: [http::error $token]"
eof {
puts " EOF reading response"
ok {
puts " OK; HTTP code: [http::ncode $token]"
puts " Response size: [http::size $token] bytes"
puts " Response: [http::data $token]"
http::cleanup $token
This concludes the code for a test client.
Testing our solution
Now that we have both client and server applications, we can run them in order to check if everything works. In order to run our example, we need to be sure that the openssl command can be run from the command line. A good test would be to run the version subcommand:
zoro@ubuntu:~$ openssl version
If we have not received an error, we can continue. Otherwise we need to make sure openssl libraries and openssl command are installed in our system, and that the directory containing the openssl command is present in our shell's path.
This is usually the case on Unix systems. On Windows machines, it might be necessary to add a directory such as C:\Program Files\OpenSSL\bin to your path. For example, you can do this by running:
path " C:\Program Files\OpenSSL\bin;%PATH%"
Of course, you will need to verify paths to your OpenSSL distribution first. After setting the path, you can verify if it is correct by running the openssl version command.
Assuming everything went fine we can move on to running the server. We can run it by using tclsh. For example:
zoro@ubuntu:~/tcl$ tclsh8.5 server.tcl
Then we can run the client. We need to specify the hostname and common name for the client:
zoro@ubuntu:~/tcl$ tclsh8.5 client.tcl 127.0.0.1 client1
Sample output from the client should be as follows:
OK; HTTP code: 200
Response size: 34 bytes
Response: Clock: 1262879775; Client: client1
For the purpose of this example, we'll assume we're running both on the same machine. If this is not the case, we need to copy keys/ca.crt from the machine where the server is run as keys-client/ca.crt on the machine where the client will be run. We also need to specify actual server IP address or a hostname instead of 127.0.0.1.
Also, in real world scenarios, a request for a new certificate might be queued in the system, and require system administrator to confirm that a new certificate should be created. In these cases, the additional step of checking those permissions should be done on the server for each request. The client would need to periodically check if the certificate has been generated and then retrieve it.
Another feature omitted from this example is handling expiration of certificates. While for this example all certificates are generated to expire in 10 years, usually CA is generated for a very long period of time; all other certificates should expire much faster, such as in one year. In these cases clients would need to keep track of when their certificate expires, and request a new one either before that happens or as soon as this has happened.
In this article, we saw how to create a secure communication system and manage certificates in TCL.
Further resources on this subject:
- Tcl: Handling Email [article]
- Extending Applications in Tcl [article]
- Networking in Tcl: Using UDP Sockets [article]


text:
Anthropologie's New NYC Store Taking Shape on the Bowery
Anthropologie, a store known for feminine whimsy, vintage inspired pieces and funky styling, put their signage up on their new location at 250 Bowery. They signed the lease back in April and this new store marks their 6th Manhattan retail outpost.
The Bowery Boogie posted photos of the scaffolding revealing their branding on the outside. They also mention that the facade seems very worn and not in an intentional faux way. The opening date has yet to be revealed.
Stay tuned!


text:
rberq wrote:In reply to a couple questions, my stove is in the LR, heats that room and the adjacent bedroom, heat goes up the stairs and heats a hall and two bedrooms on the second floor. That all works surprisingly well, didn't have to do anything special except keep the doors open to the rooms I want to heat. But the area I can't get the heat to is on the same floor as the LR, in an ell. Not practical to route either hot or cold air through the cellar because of the layout, nor through the attic. It sounds like the best I can do is one of those fans in the corner of the doorframe. I'll be pushing the warmer air, not quite as efficient as pushing cold, but better than nothing.
See what others here think of cutting a cold air return ( maybe just a 12"x12" floor register) in the room/rooms you cant heat (that opens down to the basement) to draw off some cold air & suck warm air in there.


text:
Largo for Cello & Piano
Bolero for Cello & Piano
Serenata for Cello & Piano
Sonatina for Cello & Piano
Tender Melody for Cello & Piano
Eight Variations for Piano Trio (on a Greek Folk Tune)
Maria Kitsopoulos (cello), Maria Asteriadou (piano), Georgios Demertzis (violin)
(also available to download from $10.00)
Usually despatched in 2 - 3 working days. (Available now to download.)
I. Andante - Allegro giusto - Andante
II. Thema con variazioni
III. Molto vivace
Largo for Cello and Piano
Bolero for Cello and Piano
Serenata for Cello and Piano
I. Allegro moderato
II. Andante
III. Allegro molto vivace
Tender Melody for Cello and Piano
8 Variations for Piano Trio (on a Greek folk tune)
Choose Format:MP3 (320 kbps) $10.00 CD Quality FLAC (lossless, 44.1 kHz, 16 bit) $12.00 What is MP3 and FLAC?
Copyright © 2002-17 Presto Classical Limited, all rights reserved.


text:
ONE half of a gangster rap double act from Bexleyheath has set his sights on winning X Factor and becoming a worldwide star.
Used car dealer James Lewis, of Pickford Lane, has joined forces with 52-year-old Brighton factory worker Kevin Swosh to form Hip N Hop.
The pair have flown through three auditions for the ITV hit show and are awaiting to hear if they've done enough to reach the televised auditions, watched by millions worldwide.
The 35-year-old is well known on the south-east London singing circuit where he performs anything from Pavarotti to Coolio.
He said: "We've gone in as gangster rappers, one fat bloke and one skinny, all blinged up with spikey heads. We look like B.A Baracus.
"We're doing a bit of a pee take and pretending we're from Norwich. The accent's funny and my mum's from Norwich.
"We want to win the show and want to be world renowned as gangster rappers with a Norfolk twang."
Mr Lewis was taken aback by the response to Hip N Hop during the three auditions at the ExCel Arena and even got to meet the show's presenter Dermot O'Leary.
He said: "The amount of people who had pictures taken with us was amazing. " Last year Mr Lewis' X Factor dream ended at the boot camp stage.
But this time around he is determined to go all the way.
He added: "I know because of last year I need to be different, more flamboyant and extraordinary because there's so much competition."
During the auditions Hip N Hop wowed the judges with their renditions of Coolio's Gangsta's Paradise, Labrinth's Earthquake and Five – If Ya Gettin Down.
The duo are set to perform at the Woodville Halls Theatre in Gravesend as support for a Michael Jackson tribute act on Friday, May 24.


text:
Photo Coverage: IN THE SPOTLIGHT Series - THE MOTHERF**CKER WITH THE HAT
The world premiere on Broadway of THE MOTHER WITH THE HAT by Stephen Adly Guirgis stars Bobby Cannavale, Chris Rock, Elizabeth Rodriguez, Annabella Sciorra and Yul Vázquez. Directed by Anna D. Shapiro, the show is playing a strictly limited engagement at the Gerald Schoenfeld Theatre (236 West 45th Street, New York City) and officially opened on April 11, 2011.
Here are the first photos in a new BroadwayWorld.com series 'In The Spotlight' by acclaimed photographer Walter McBride that takes a look at the stars in profile on opening night!
THE MOTHER WITH THE HAT is produced on Broadway by Scott Rudin, Stuart Thompson, Public Theater Productions, LAByrinth Theater Company, Fabula Media Partners LLC, Jean Doumanian, Ruth Hendel, Carl Moellenberg, Jon B. Platt, Tulchin Bartner/Jamie deRoy.
THE MOTHER WITH THE HAT is a new high-octane, verbal cage match about love, fidelity, and misplaced haberdashery from playwright Stephen Adly Guirgis. Jackie and Veronica have been in love since the 8th grade. But now, Jackie is on parole and living clean and sober under the guidance of his sponsor, Ralph D, while still living and loving with his volatile soul mate Veronica who is fiercely loving, but far from sober. Still, their love is pure. And true. Nothing can come between them - except a hat.
The creative team includes scenic design by Todd Rosenthal, costume design by Mimi O'Donnell, lighting design by Donald Holder, sound design by Acme Sound Partners and original music by Terence Blanchard.
Tickets on Monday through Thursday evenings and Wednesday, Saturday and Sunday matinees range in price from $66.50 to $121.50. Tickets on Friday and Saturday evenings range in price from $76.50 to $131.50. Tuesdays at 7:00pm, Wednesday through Saturday at 8:00 pm, Wednesday and Saturday at 2:00 pm, Sunday at 3:00 pm.
Photo Credit: Walter McBride/WM Photos


text:
Firewatch Devs Issue DMCA Against PewDiePie After Latest Incident, Get Their Game Review-Bombed
Sep 19, 2017 | 7 Comments
Amazon will be matching Target's "Buy 2, Get 1" promotion for PlayStation 4 games. The promotion applies to a select list of games (listed below), and will begin at 9:00am PST on Tuesday, November 12.
To take advantage of the promotion simply enter the code "GR8TNESS" at checkout. Amazon warns supplies are limited and that the promotion is valid only for a limited time. There are a few other minor details regarding your purchases, but you can read all of the fine print here.
Below is the full list of games being offered:


text:
I made a batch of Rolled fondant using this recipe:
1/2 oz gelatin
1/4 cup water
1/2 cup glucose
3/4 oz glycerin
2 lbs confectioners sugar
1tsp vanilla
The fondant came out pretty good. I tried to color it a dark brown so added cocoa powder and then added little bit of black americolor gel and brown powder color. Now the fondant is very soft but at the same time just crumbles. there is absolutely no stretch to it. I have kneaded it and added more shortening. I have added glycerin. then I added few drops of water it still doesn't work. Why does this fondant behaving like this!! Do you think maybe shortening could have caused this? I have included a link to a video so you can see how it looks:
A few questions...
1) did you let the fondant sit for a while before trying to use it?
2) did you add the cocoa powder to the recipe on top of the c. sugar, or did you replace some of the c.sugar with cocoa?
3) did you at the cocoa powder after the fondant was completely done, or while you were making it?
I let the fondant sit for 24 hours. I added the cocoa powder after the fondant was done the next day. Do you think that is the problem? Maybe I should have replaced some of the sugar with the cocoa pwd......
Yeah - that's what I'm thinking. I did a quick google search and it seems that cocoa powder is notorious for drying out fondant. People recommend using melted chocolate or candy melts instead...
My guess is to stay away from cocoa powder in the future - I can't see any problems with the recipe besides that, and shortening definitely wouldn't make that happen, unless maybe you added an entire brick of Crisco!


text:
As the fall semester gets closer Neebo, formerly known as Nebraska Book Co., is offering a textbook rental program for students at participating schools to have their required course material costs included in their tuition and fees and have them available when classes start. Through BookSmart, students receive the lowest prices for textbooks at the local level, or on average 50% off the national textbook average price. The cost per student is calculated based on the total rental cost of textbooks for all students and is divided by the total number of credit hours being taken that year.
"Through the cost and time savings of this program, Neebo's BookSmart program will help students get their required course materials in time for the first day of class, greatly enhancing their overall educational experience," said Sean O'Brien, area v-p of Neebo's College Stores segment.
In addition, under the BookSmart program students can pick up and return textbook rentals at their local participating bookstore.


text:
CAPITOLA -- Christmas is looking much merrier for Jeff Gutman, a new dad from San Francisco who paid $250 to retrieve his car after it was towed while he was shopping in Capitola Village with his wife and newborn baby.
City Councilman Dennis Norton sympathized with Gutman because the privately owned lot where he parked looks like a city lot, with the same blue machine seen at other spots in the village where the city is offering free parking through Dec. 25.
"We've already raised the money," said Norton, who talked with Jesse Nickell of Barry Swenson Builder, the company that owns the lot. "Jesse's taken care of this."
Nickell said the tow was initiated by Dogherra's, the towing company, without approval from Panther Security or MCM Diversified, a Swenson sister company managing commercial property.
"In general, we have been soft on towing," Nickell said, disclosing that problems resulted in the previous tow firm getting fired.
Not only is Barry Swenson Builder reimbursing Gutman, Nickell has already put up a free parking sign on its parking lot, matching the city's free holiday parking.
Each of the five City Council members also has committed to give $20, and Kathy Pratt, a community volunteer, is donating $50, according to Norton.
"I don't want this guy going away feeling like Capitola doesn't care," said Gayle Ortiz, co-owner of Gayle's Bakery and Rosticceria, who also offered to contribute.
"Yeah, he could have read the signs differently but we all make mistakes like that and I'd hate to have his family burdened after choosing Capitola as their special holiday stop," she said. "Let's show people that we want them here in Capitola and support this guy.
Sentinel reader Annita Sibert, who had her own bad experience parking in Capitola, offered to pitch in for Gutman, too.
Toni Castro of the Capitola-Soquel Chamber of Commerce agreed to accept donations on Gutman's behalf through Thursday; the office is closed Friday for the Christmas holiday.
Norton suggests putting all donations that exceed the cost of the tow into a gift certificate for village merchants and for Gayle's to encourage Gutman to return to Capitola.
"My wife and I are absolutely in tears over this," said Gutman, after hearing the news.
Follow Sentinel reporter Jondi Gumz on Twitter at Twitter.com/jondigumz


text:
All community groups, organizations and individuals are invited to participate in one of Pacifica's most traditional events, the Discover Pacifica Fog Fest Parade. This will be the 29th year of Fog Fest and the parade. To celebrate our coastal seaside community, this year's theme is "Seaside Dreams."
One of the highlights this year, by popular demand, will once again be the "Rustiest Car Contest." Your vehicle entry must be driven down Palmetto Ave. on its own power. The winner will receive an award certificate and "bragging rights."
Leading off the parade will be Grand Marshal Mayor Mary Ann Nihart, followed by members of the Pacifica Sports Hall of Fame as Honorary Grand Marshals.
Parade festivities will include marching bands, spirit squads, actors, musicians, dancers, students, costumes, and more. We invite you to come show everyone what your group is all about. Build a float and showcase your creativity. All community groups, schools, individuals and organizations are invited to join. Dress in costume, carry signs and provide your interpretation of our theme, "Seaside Dreams." Come join the fun.
Prizes of $100 and certificates will be awarded this year in three categories — Best Float, Most Creative Walking Group and Best Music or Dance Group (other than school marching bands).
Launching the festival parade will be Cabrillo School principal, Thomas Stafford, singing the National Anthem from the South Stage at Montecito Ave. Start time is 10 a.m. on Saturday, September 27.
Entry forms may be downloaded from our website at www.pacificcoastfogfest.com. From the Home page click on Activities, then click on Parade. Your request may also be e-mailed to email@example.com or you may telephone Diane Hart at 650-359-5719. Entry deadline is September 2. Entries after that date will require an additional fee.


text:
Simone Biles Has a Memoir Coming This November and We're Flipping Out
Despite having fallen down the stairs at the MTV Video Music Awards because she "sucks at walking," Simone Biles has proven with her repeated flawless routines that she has one (of many) things: the "Courage to Soar." The title of her upcoming memoir, written with New York Times bestselling author Michelle Burford, tells the story of how she became one of history's most decorated gymnasts.
"It's about my life, a little bit about my family, and then how I got to where I am," Biles told Ellen DeGeneres on Tuesday during the season premiere of her show. It was Biles' first talk show appearance since she made history in Rio.
"Courage to Soar: A Body in Motion, A Life in Balance" is available for preorder on Amazon now ahead of its November release.
NEXT: Is Simone Biles the Best Gymnast of All Time? »
Related Stories:
• Simone Biles Owns the Gymnastics World Right Now
• Simone Biles and Gabby Douglas are Poised to Shine in Rio
Photo Credit: Toshifumi Kitamura/AFP/Getty Images


text:
Jason Collins didn't have much impact at the end of the bench for the Washington Wizards, but he carved out a piece of history Monday when he revealed in a Sports Illustrated story that he is gay -- the first active player in a major U.S. professional sports league to declare himself publicly.
"I didn't set out to be the first openly gay athlete playing in a major American team sport. But since I am, I'm happy to start the conversation," Collins wrote. "I wish I wasn't the kid in the classroom raising his hand and saying, 'I'm different.' If I had my way, someone else would have already done this. Nobody has, which is why I'm raising my hand."
It's a historic moment, but it is not THE historic moment. It took personal courage for Jason Collins to reveal who he is, and the moment shouldn't be diminished. It moves the ball down the field toward the goal line -- which should be tolerance and acceptance, or simply live-and-let-live without painful judgements.
But Collins is 34 years old, a bit player at this point in his career, and who knows if he will even be on an NBA roster next season. The true test will come when a prominent player -- not a star, but a starting player in the middle of his career -- makes the same declaration when he will be in locker rooms and playing fields and courts for years to come.
Collins made it easier for that moment to come.
The most remarkable aspect of Collins' announcement was the public reaction -- overwhelmingly positive and supportive. Politicians, athletes and organizations went out of their way to voice their support for the courage Collins displayed -- including his team (or former team, as Collins became a free agent at the end of the season), the Washington Wizards.
"We are extremely proud of Jason and support his decision to live his life proudly and openly," Wizards president Ernie Grunfeld said in a statement.
The most significant show of support came from one of basketball's biggest stars -- Lakers guard Kobe Bryant, who tweeted, "Proud of @jasoncollins34. Don't suffocate who u r because of the ignorance of others #courage #support #mambaarmystandup #BYOU."
It was Bryant who, in his own way, paved the way for Collins.
Two years ago, Bryant was fined $100,000 for using a gay slur that was heard on national television in a game after receiving a technical foul. The was a defining moment -- a major sports star hit with a severe penalty for using a slur that unfortunately had been thrown around in the heat of the moment in many games far too often.
I don't know what is in Bryant's heart, but he has been an active supporter of gay rights since -- sort of an awakening, not just for him but for all of sports, about the damage done by accepting hate speech.
It opened people's eyes -- and their minds.
columnist Thom Loverro is the co-host of "The Sports Fix" from noon to 2 p.m. Monday through Friday on ESPN980 and espn980.com. Contact him at email@example.com.


text:
Comparison of Endotracheal Intubation Success Rates Using Video Laryngoscopes in Entrapped Patients - a Manikin Study
This study has been completed.
University of Cologne
Information provided by:
University of Cologne
ClinicalTrials.gov Identifier:
First received: August 13, 2010
Last updated: November 10, 2010
Last verified: August 2010
- Full Text View
- Tabular View
- No Study Results Posted
- Disclaimer
- How to Read a Study Record
The investigators will compare the success rates of endotracheal intubation in a simulated entrapped car accident victim (manikin) using different video laryngoscopes by experienced emergency physicians.
The investigators hypothesized that video laryngoscopes may improve success rates.
|Endotracheal Intubation
|Study Type:
|Study Design:
|Time Perspective: Prospective
|Official Title:
|Comparison of Endotracheal Intubation Success Rates Using Video Laryngoscopes in Entrapped Patients - a Manikin Study
Further study details as provided by University of Cologne:
Primary Outcome Measures:
- successful endotracheal intubation [ Time Frame: 2 months ]We compare the success rates of endotracheal intubation with the different devices
|Estimated Enrollment:
|Study Start Date:
|August 2010
|Study Completion Date:
|November 2010
|storz c-mac
|mcgrath vl
|ambu pentax aws
|macintosh laryngoscope
|Ages Eligible for Study:
|18 Years to 65 Years (Adult)
|Sexes Eligible for Study:
|Accepts Healthy Volunteers:
|Sampling Method:
|Probability Sample
Study Population
experienced emergency physicians
Inclusion Criteria:
- experienced emergency physicians
Exclusion Criteria:
- no experience in out-of-hospital emergency medicine
Contacts and Locations
Choosing to participate in a study is an important personal decision. Talk with your doctor and family members or friends about deciding to join a study. To learn more about this study, you or your doctor may contact the study research staff using the Contacts provided below. For general information, see Learn About Clinical Studies.
Please refer to this study by its ClinicalTrials.gov identifier: NCT01182740
Please refer to this study by its ClinicalTrials.gov identifier: NCT01182740
|University Hospital of Cologne
|Cologne, Germany, 50397
Sponsors and Collaborators
University of Cologne
More Information
Publications automatically indexed to this study by ClinicalTrials.gov Identifier (NCT Number):
ClinicalTrials.gov processed this record on September 21, 2017
Publications automatically indexed to this study by ClinicalTrials.gov Identifier (NCT Number):
Wetsch WA, Carlitscheck M, Spelten O, Teschendorf P, Hellmich M, Genzwürker HV, Hinkelbein J. Success rates and endotracheal tube insertion times of experienced emergency physicians using five video laryngoscopes: a randomised trial in a simulated trapped car accident victim. Eur J Anaesthesiol. 2011 Dec;28(12):849-58. doi: 10.1097/EJA.0b013e32834c7c7f.
|Responsible Party:
|Wolfgang A. Wetsch, M.D., Department of Anaesthesiology, University Hospital of Cologne, Germany
|ClinicalTrials.gov Identifier:
|NCT01182740 History of Changes
|Other Study ID Numbers:
|Study First Received:
|August 13, 2010
|Last Updated:
|November 10, 2010
ClinicalTrials.gov processed this record on September 21, 2017


text:
LAGHMAN PROVINCE, Afghanistan — Two celebrities with Armed Forces Entertainment brought smiles to soldiers at Combat Outpost Xio Haq and Forward Operating Base Gamberi on Saturday.
Actor Romany Malco, from the movie, "The 40-Year-Old Virgin," and the TV show, "Weeds," and Jill Wagner from the hit series, "Wipeout," walked out of the helicopter at Xio Haq to the popping sound of gunshots. They were quickly told not to worry; the noise they heard was soldiers qualifying at a range located on the base.
The two celebrities were greeted by Lt. Col. Hope Rampy and Command Sgt. Maj. Maurice Greening, the command team of 4th Brigade Special Troops Battalion, 4th Brigade Combat Team, 1st Cavalry Division.
After a quick tour of Xio Haq, the pair stopped at the Morale, Welfare and Recreation room to sign autographs and take pictures.
During the meet and greet, Pfc. Nicasio Martinez, was dared to ask Wagner to the brigade ball. He serves as a wheeled vehicle mechanic with the battalion's Headquarters and Headquarters Company.
After waiting in line to meet the actress, Martinez asked her to the ball. Wagner told Martinez to ask her correctly and get on one knee. So on bended knee, Martinez held her left hand and asked Wagner if she would like to go to the brigade ball.
"Because I was the only single soldier out here," Martinez said. "I got the nerve to do it, I asked her and she said 'yes.'"
After saying yes to Martinez, Wagner jumped up and down in celebration. She said she never attended a military ball before. They took a picture together and Martinez gave Wagner's assistant his contact information.
Martinez said the brigade ball will be at Fort Hood after his unit returns home. The 20-year-old said he has been in the Army for a year and is on his first deployment to Afghanistan.
"I am looking forward to the ball and I hope she attends," Martinez said.
The whirlwind tour continued from Xio Haq to Gamberi.
Following a half-hour UH-60 Black Hawk helicopter flight, the duo was given a tour of the base, where they met with senior leaders, traveled to the bazaar and even sat inside a Mine Resistant Ambush Protected vehicle.
The two celebrities ended their tour of the base at the Gamberi dining facility.
The line of people waiting for the "Hollywood Ambassadors" was long, snaking out the entrance and around the corner of the dining facility. Tables were set up so Wagner and Malco could take pictures and sign autographs.
After more than an hour meeting with soldiers, they refused to take a break, even after they were asked by the MWR staff. They wanted to see as many people as they could before they left the base.
"This experience is one that I will never forget," Wagner said. "It's so heartwarming to meet all of you guys and hear your experiences."


text:
Skills Academy welcomes Chief Nuclear Inspector's report on lessons from Fukushima
The Chief Executive of the National Skills Academy for Nuclear, Jean Llewellyn OBE welcomed the publication of the UK's Chief Nuclear Inspector Dr Mike Weightman's final report on the lessons to be learned from the Fukushima Dai-ichi incident.
The final report highlights that there is no reason to restrict UK nuclear reactors or stop building new ones, as the Chief Inspector did not find any fundamental weaknesses in the current licensing regime or safety principles. The report also highlights that by learning lessons from events such as those which unfolded at the Fukushima Dai-ichi power station the nuclear industry in the UK can be made even safer.
The work of the National Skills Academy for Nuclear is referenced in the report with a particular emphasis on the work the Skills Academy is undertaking to promote sustained high levels of safety culture and the promotion of 'nuclear professionalism'.
Jean Llewellyn OBE Commented
"The Skills Academy is the lead skills organisation for the nuclear industry. We work with employers via a none competitive forum to enable us to develop solutions to skills issues on behalf of the nuclear industry which meet the industry's specific requirements and meet the high quality standards the sector needs to maintain its high level of safety.
The Skills Academy will be launching the Certificate of Nuclear Professionalism next year, which is a higher educational programme supporting continued professional development of existing and new members of the UK nuclear industry workforce. A collaborative product developed with the Open University and to be delivered by members of the Skills Academy High Quality Provider Network, the Certificate is set to become the benchmark for a nuclear professional."
The report recognised the general shortage of nuclear skills in the UK, and commended the efforts being made by a number of organisations to address this. The Chief Nuclear Inspector particularly highlighted the National Skills Academy for Nuclear's Nuclear Skills Passport Scheme as a credible mechanism for the recording of the basic training of a large number of personnel that could be utilised in an event of the scale of Fukushima.
The National Skills Academy for Nuclear will continue to work closely with Industry, ONR, Government and Cogent Sector Skills Council to ensure a full understanding of the key skills priorities for the nuclear sector, and how the skills demand can be met.


text:
What we're watching Sunday
U.S. commandos strike terror targets in Libya and Somalia
American special forces in Tripoli captured Libyan al-Qaida leader Abu Anas al Libi– a man been linked to the 1998 African embassy bombings.
The '98 strikes on U.S. embassies in Nairobi and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania killed 12 American diplomats and 200 Kenyan citizens, as well as 11 Tanzanians, respectively.
Plus, new details have emerged about a Navy SEAL raid in Somalia to capture a suspect in the Kenyan mall attack: the team was forced to abort its mission after running into a fierce firefight.
Of the strikes, Secretary of State John Kerry said:
"We hope this makes clear that the United States of America will never stop in its effort to hold those accountable who conduct acts of terror… Those members of al Qaeda and other terrorist organizations literally can run but they can't hide."
Pentagon Press Secretary George Little released this statement about the capture of Abu Anas al Libi:
On Oct. 5, the Department of Defense, acting under military authorities, conducted an operation to apprehend longtime Al Qaeda member Abu Anas al Libi in Libya. He is currently lawfully detained under the law of war in a secure location outside of Libya.
Wherever possible, our first priority is and always has been to apprehend terrorist suspects, and to preserve the opportunity to elicit valuable intelligence that can help us protect the American people.
Abu Anas al Libi has been indicted in the Southern District of New York in connection with his alleged role in Al Qaeda's conspiracy to kill U.S.nationals and to conduct attacks against U.S. interests worldwide, which included Al Qaeda plots to attack U.S. forces stationed in Saudi Arabia,Yemen, and Somalia, as well as the U.S. embassies in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, and Nairobi, Kenya.
The successful capture operation was made possible by superb work and coordination across our national security agencies and the intelligence community, and was approved by President Obama. No American personnel or civilians on the ground were injured during the operation. These actions are a clear sign that the United States is committed to using all the tools at our disposal to bring to justice those who commit terrorist acts against Americans.
DOD recalls furloughed workers, shutdown continues
Meanwhile in Washington, the House is in recess after passing a bill Saturday to provide back pay to furloughed workers — a measure the Senate is expected to pass this week.
Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel also ordered nearly all of the 350,000 furloughed civilian workers at the Department of Defense back to work.


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Low End Sedans (under $16k)
Larry, if you were offened by my little joke about the styling of the ECHO, I apologize. I thought the pictogram I put after the comment would let people know the statement was in jest. I was also expressing an opinion about an inanimate object, a car, and my personal reaction to it, vs. an opinion about a class of people.
I'm glad you think the Elantra is "the real deal". Since there IS an Elantra hatchback, I'm assuming you don't think it is stylish, based on your post. I happen to disagree, but its Saab-like styling cues aren't for everyone. I think it could benefit from a front grill redux and some rework on the tail lights. Maybe in 2004. A wagon would be nice, too--the prior generation wagon seemed quite popular, I see a lot of them around.
Re your opinion on Civic, Protege, and Sentra's superiority in overall value, it would be interesting to see if the marketplace shares your opinion. For example, Civic sales were up strongly in October, up 23.5% from October 2000. But Elantra sales were up 69.6% in October compared to a year ago. I could not find sales figures for Protege and Sentra for October; perhaps someone knows where to get this info (Honda and Hyundai conveniently post their monthly sales figures, broken down by model, on their Web sites.) As you've noted, Hyundai and Kia are selling pretty well. Actually they're selling great if you look at their increases year-over-year compared to the rest of the market. There must be reasons for these strong sales increases vs. competitors like Honda, Mazda, and Nissan. I happen to think that value (feature content for the dollar) and peace of mind from the outstanding warranty are two major reasons.
Major, just to be fair on this... does your ECHO have the following features, which come on an Elantra GLS with CD?
Power windows
Power locks
Remote keyless entry with alarm
Power heated mirrors
6-speaker CD
6-way adjustable drivers seat with lumbar support
15" tires
Front-seat side air bags
Air conditioning
Variable ratio power steering
Cruise control
Full gauge cluster with tachometer
Front seat arm rest with dual storage compartments
If not, then to be fair we should add this equipment to the ECHO when doing price comparisons.
csandste Posts: 1,866Have a Malibu Maxx-- best 16K I ever spent.
Close friend has a 2000 Focus ZX3. Like the handling but seats aren't too good as per lumbar support. Supposedly Focus has improved in both comfort and handling since then.
Had a Hyundai Elantra 4 door before the Maxx. More comfortable than the Focus, Maxx is worth the extra 5 grand difference. However if I was looking at that size car I'd still be looking at the Elantra hatch (none was available when I was buying in 2001).
Passed on the Kia because of poor initial crash scores, however Kia has now improved in that area and would definitely be looking at the car now. Nice looking although I still think the Maxx is worth the extra $$$, especially since the mileage is roughly the same. (I'm getting about 1.5 mpg less than I did with the Elantra 5-speed.)
I also looked at the Scion xB and the Toyota/Pontiac hatch twins. All were far too noisy and the Suzuki Aerio SX-- really liked the 5-speed, interior is MUCH improved this year and there's a great level of standard features. Still, concerned about Suzuki dealer quality and the Aerio sales are tanking even with the recent improvements.
Chevy dealers appear much better than local Hyundai dealer (they were always trying to nickel and dime me on services and don't like dealer addons and high pressure sales of closest dealer). Kia dealership tied to local Dodge dealer that's better than Hyundai but not up to my experience with local Chevy dealerships (I think they've been Saturnized for the better).
Did drive a Forenza wagon (with the automatic), much less car than my Maxx--and MPG's were worse--- and cruder IMHO than the Kia/Hyundais. I assume the same would apply to the Reno.
Drove a Mazda 3, but reliability not as good as the Maxx.
All in all, I wish we had many more wagons and hatches to consider. A decade ago both the Camry and Accord came in wagon form. Now there's only the Maxx and the Mazda 6 in that class and a handful of Focus class cars with hatches and wagons. Too bad-- got to get more 50 and 60 year olds (as well as 20-30-and 40 year olds) out of those SUV's.
Backy, I am the resident Echo owner and I did not take offense to your statement although I disagree with you and feel you are wrong.
Backy, some of the things you mention are on my Echo, some things could have been on my Echo, and some things are unavailable as a dealer or factory option no matter the price.
The things on your list that are on my Echo are power locks, 6-speakers, and the air conditioning.
The things you can get are power windows, remote keyless entry with alarm, and front-seat side air bags.
The things you cannot get power heated side mirrors, 6-way adjustable driver's seat with lumbar support, 15" tires, cruise control, full gauge cluster with tachometer, and front seat armrest with dual storage containers.
I think you are reaching with the last two, especially the last one. Should I ask if the Elantra comes with two glove boxes? Should I ask if the Elantra comes with an under the seat drawer? Should I ask if the Elantra comes with a storage bin under the steering wheel?
There is one item on your list that I have not mentioned and that is the power steering. My Echo has power steering, but I have no idea if it is variable ratio power steering.
When I figured out the MSRP of a "comparably equipped" Elantra to compare to the MSRP of my Echo, I had to think about what was important to me. Honestly, I detest power windows and if I bought an Elantra and I could have it without power windows, I would. Even if it meant paying to have them removed.
BTW, how much does it cost to get the Toyota quality option on the Elantra?
According to one source, which is JD Powers, the 2001 Echo is better than the 2001 Elantra in the areas of mechanical quality, feature & accessory quality, and body & interior quality.
This seems born out by the fact that the 2001 Elantra has one recall, eight technical service bulletins, and fifteen customer complaints detailed on the NHTSA site.
Compare that with zero recalls, zero technical service bulletins, and six customer complaints for the 2001 Echo.
Finally, Consumer Reports relates that owners of the 2001 Elantra had more complaints in the areas of the fuel system, transmission, electrical system, brakes, power equipment, and body hardware than owners of the 2001 Echo.
Three different sources researched and ALL three seem to indicate that the 2001 Echo is a better car than the 2001 Elantra.
janbee Posts: 127are you actually trying to prove whose car is the better one??? I think you are getting a little carried away. Lets just enjoy what each of our cars have to offer and why we enjoy them so.
carczar Posts: 23Is Honda actually going to bring to the US a new model that would be below the Civic in size and price range just as Toyota has with Echo/Corolla? And is VW considering bringing on the Polo?
By the way, there is no comparison between Echo and Elantra other than price similarity. Elantra wins all categories (Styling, value content, fun to drive factor, ride comfort) with the exception of the "Toyota" reputation. Drive both cars back to back if you wanna know what I mean.
Funny, how you dismiss the quality "win" of the Echo by calling it the Toyota "reputation". And it is not just reputation, it is a fact as demonstrated by the results of the JD Powers' survey and Consumer Reports' survey.
I guess quality is not important to you.
I hate to rehash old arguments, but the whole "pride of ownership" thing is another way of saying "My ego won't allow me to own one." You are so afraid that your neighbors will stop talking to you if you don't drive a Toyota or Honda or whatever everyone else has to drive that you can't buy one. Don't worry about your co-workers or anyone, get a great car at a great price and enjoy the heck out of it!
Ego or worry about what others were thinking had nothing to do in my decision to buy a Toyota. None of my close friends had Toyotas and none of my family had/have Toyotas.
I bought it simply because, overall, it hit my hot buttons the hardest. And quality was one of those issues.
Simple as that.
But I still think "Pride in ownership" means you could not imagine going to work Monday and exclaiming with pride "I just bought a new Hyundai!" That is what I meant by ego getting in the way. I'm glad you love your Toyota, I'm not faulting anyone for loving their non-Korean cars.
No, that has nothing to do with why I did not buy a Hyundai.
In fact, when time comes to replace the Echo, if a Hyundai or other Korean car hits my hot buttons the hardest, then I will be buying a Korean car.
Same thing goes for my roommate who is in the initial stages of looking for a new car. If a Korean made car hits her hot buttons the hardest, that is what she will get and other people's opinions be darned.
coolguyky7 Posts: 932They don't say "It's not a Hyundai. It's not a Kia." They say Mercedes and then Toyota. That has to mean something.
but not as good as Hyundai or Kia.Then again it could mean ??????
Maybe they should have called it the GMC Envy. ; )
The issue of pride has come up and I want to know what one or two things makes you proud of your car? Are you proud that it is made by a certain company?
Personally, I am not sure proud is the right word. I think asking what makes you happy is a better question.
I am happy that my car gets great gas mileage. I am happy that it is of high quality and should be very dependable. I could go on, but I did specify one or two things.
Who makes it does not figure into the happiness question because that was not important to me other than when it came to the question of dependability.
Now it is your turn.
>"Since there IS an Elantra hatchback, I'm assuming you don't think it is stylish, based on your post. I happen to disagree, but its Saab-like styling cues aren't for everyone. I think it could benefit from a front grill redux and some rework on the tail lights. Maybe in 2004. A wagon would be nice, too--the prior generation wagon seemed quite popular, I see a lot of them around."<
I have no opinion on the styling of the Elantra hatchback, since I didn't even know Hyundai produced a Elantra hatchback! I guess they introduced the hatch in late summer? Are they selling well? Can you post a link to a picture of the Elantrahatch?
It seems that small wagons are red hot in the market at present. It's a shame Hyundai did not continue that body style? Nevertheless, I did not care for the old Elantra wagon styling.
Larry, where have you been? How could you have you missed the commercial with the two guys where one of them is sitting in the boss's leather chair and the other is pushing him around? The boss shows up and says that's his chair (or words to that effect). The boss then leaves and admires a car in the parking lot whereby the two guys come up and one of them says that's my chair (or words to that effect). The car is the Elantra GT aka the Elantra hatchback.
Memo to Hyundai, if you are going to name a car a GT, at least give it a more powerful engine than the sedan version.
Backy, I never said, those makes were SUPERIOR? I think a superior rating is VERY subjective and I have no reasonable claim to that kind of knowledge. However, I am of the OPINION that those vehicles are very well made, hold their value, are packaged with the features folks want and are priced fairly.
>"It is still my opinion that Honda Civic, Mazda Protege and/or Nissan Sentra offer a better long term value, better reliability, and the features people really want at a very fair price. JUST MY OPINION."<
Jeesh, I have a 5 year old son, if I'm not watching NICK, the Disney Channel or the Cartoon Network, I'm watching Digimon VHS tapes! I doubt, car manufactures do much advertising on those channels, lol! I have seen TV commercials for the Chevy Venture Warner Brothers edition, while watching the Cat-Dog cartoon!
Backy, I was reading old posts and came across your post where you take me to task for not mentioning wanting a tach and a real engine temperature gauge.
I explained that I felt you were exaggerating (meaning to make it seem greater than it really was) my words. You thought I was accusing you of lying about my words.
What I really had issue with in your post #943 was your use of the word bemoan and I did not make that clear in previous posts.
I do not feel I was bemoaning the lack of a tach or temperature gauge.
In my little pocket dictionary, the definition of bemoan is given as lament and lament means to feel or show deep sorrow. I was definitely not feeling or showing deep sorrow about the situation.
Now do you understand why I said you were exaggerating my words?
>"What I really had issue with in your post #943 was your use of the word bemoan and I did not make that clear in previous posts."<
Tom, that was over 70 posts ago. Holy Mother of All thats Good and Pure, you sure know how to beat a dead horse!
The number of posts has no bearing on how dead a horse might be. Sometimes there have been fifty new posts in this thread in the space of a day. It was not like I was dredging up something from last year.
It was something that I feel did not adequately address and so I simply did so now.
It has been argued (here or elsewhere) that perhaps people don't admit to problems with Toyotas or Hondas because they feel guilty at paying so much and are ashamed to admit when they have problems.
Could the same (about feeling guilt) be said about owners of lower quality cars? Perhaps they are ashamed to admit that they do have problems with a car that their friends (and others) warned them might be trouble?
They went against what their friends said; they went against what JD Powers said; they went against what Consumer Reports said; and now, they are paying the price.
Perhaps that is why some people are so ardent in their support of their car.
I had a moment of clerity and actually visualized a person whipping a dead horse.It actually fits the situation perfectly.Major you seem to have indicated the desirability of these features at some point.The extent of your "need"will never be known.Backy did not seem to imply you had a desperate need for these features.
All can lament about is that I be moanin if I hear mo in the moanin.
In the majors defense whipping dead horse is harmless to the horse.
Or put up Christmas lights, or go for a drive, or something other than posting here on a beautiful Sunday? :0
Where to start... Larry, you can get some good pix on the Elantra GT at the Hyundai USA site, http://www.hyundaiusa.com. There's also an entire Edmunds.com forum devoted to the GT, if you want to get some impressions from owners. I've been following this board since its inception and most owners seem pleased with the car. Hyundai doesn't break out GT sales from GLS sales, so it's hard to know how well they're selling, but I'm beginning to see more of them on the road around my town.
Major, you've been very busy today. First, if you're going to pick apart my choice of the word "bemoan" and quote from Webster's to explain how you posted a few months ago that you would like a tach and temp gauge on your ECHO, then denied you said it, that's fine with me. I will try to use simpler language in the future in my posts to you so there is no misunderstanding, and so you won't need to refer to the dictionary. ;-)
Second, regarding quality of the ECHO vs. the Elantra, and Toyota vs. Hyundai in general, I don't believe I've ever said that the Elantra is a better quality car than the ECHO--because I don't believe that. I believe that Toyota is the industry leader in quality, and the target for Hyundai to shoot for. But all signs indicate that Hyundai is making great strides in quality, if not yet up to Toyota's level. For example, as you noted earlier, the '01 Elantra, a new design that year, has had one recall, 8 TSBs, and 15 customer complaints reported by NHTSA. If we compare that to another new-for-'01 design, the '01 Civic, we see that it has had 3 recalls, 22 TSBs, and 91 customer complaints to date. Of course, since about 3 times as many Civics are sold than Elantras, that explains in part the high number of customer complaints vs. Elantra--but 91?? Since I know you like to be fair, we should compare how the new-for-'01 Elantra compares to the new-for-'00 ECHO. (The '01 ECHO had a full year to get the "kinks" out.) According to NHTSA, the '00 ECHO has had 2 recalls, 10 TSBs, and 36 customer complaints. This is for a car that sells in much lower numbers than the Elantra. So going by the NHTSA data, it looks to me that Hyundai is not doing that bad a job with its new designs, compared to new designs of top-tier Japanese automakers.
Third, you asked for two things that make us proud to own our cars. I agree that "happy" may be a better word, or maybe "satisfied". Anyway, if I had to name just two I'd say owning/driving a good-looking car, and one that is very well equipped considering its bargain-basement price.
Finally, I found your post about "guilt" rather odd. You state that owners of lower-quality cars (and who may those owners be??) are ashamed to admit that they have problems with their cars. Let's see... I own a car that you consider low quality, but I have been very honest about its shortcomings--even posted a list of about a dozen of them awhile back--and its problems (of which there have been very few, but I've noted every single one for all to see). Meanwhile, the owner of a high-quality car--that would be you, Major--can't even admit that he might like a tach and a temperature gauge in his car, and writes several posts explaining why his earlier posts, in which he said he would like to have those features, were misunderstood. You also started an Edmunds.com forum dedicated to explaining to all comers why ECHO is the best low-end car. Now, if that is not being ardent in support of one's car, I don't know what is.
iluvmysephia1 KC MetroPosts: 6,874commercial where the guy and girl are driving through a deserty area? The girl is driving and the guy is reading the car's manual. They eventually get to a breathtaking panoramic viewpoint and stop the car. The girl is looking out over a beautiful view of a huge canyon and yells back to the guy-"Hey,you still reading that?". He says "yeah" and tilts the manual open vertically (like it's a centerfold or something). His jaw kind of drops and he mumbles "Wow!". OK-I know the criticism is going to come gushing and spilling out all over about how dumb this commercial is. AAAAAHHHHHHH-but WAIT A SECOND! The beautiful 2002 Kia Spectra hatchback in Classic Red is given nice camera coverage. Great job on that body Kia! You guys have scored again!!! The commercial works for those that it's going to grab in. It's all about showcasing the car. The car is showcased and it's....fabulous. A great bargain as well. Point made by our South Korean/American Kia friends very successfully!
2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed
spiritz Posts: 21As far as I know, this thread is dedicated to comparison discussion on "Low End Car - Japanese vs. American vs. European vs. Korean", not on specific cars.
More and more I have feeling that this thread becomes Echo vs. Elantra discussion. Is that a conclusion of this thread?
I know they are good car, but there're more cars out there.
How about Neon, Escort, Focus,Sentra, Saturn, Esteem, and other Domestic & Japanese cars?
Mr.Major, Backy, I am very impressed by your vast knowledge.
I'd like to know how do you think about domestic low-end cars.
Have you test-driven them?
Backy, do you take everything so personally? Just because you have a low end car does not mean I think you are not posting the problems you might have with the car.
I was merely pointing out that it is a two way street because (as I posted) some have postulated that Honda or Toyota owners don't divulge problems because they paid more and thus feel like they have to uphold some sort of reputation.
People who drive the cheaper (is that okay instead of lower quality?) cars might not want to divulge their problems because they were warned not to buy the cars.
If you see yourself in that scenario, so be it. Or should I start typing "not including Backy?"
I was not using the dictionary to deny I said something. I was just supplying some outside source to back up why I objected to your use of the word bemoan to describe my statements. I feel that your use of the word made the lack of some items a bigger deal than it was.
I did know what bemoan and lament meant beforehand so don't feel that you have to tone down your word usage.
I share this computer and it is now someone else's turn so I have to turn the computer over. I will post a further response to your post later on.
Remember, just because you may see yourself in my words does not mean I do.


text: Hey everyone: Just wondering if I could get a quick opinion on the fit of the shoulders in this suit. I'm up in the air still about keeping it and wanted to get a 'few' second opinions. I have fairly broad shoulders with an athletic build and off the rack RLBL suits fit me beautifully in a 38s. My only concern is in the shoulder area and whether or not slightly roped shoulders work for my frame. (sorry for poor picture quality) Thanks in advance for any feedback!!