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Where besides CCR can I get rebuilt engines?
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Guest Message by DevFuse
Rebuilt engines?
Started by carfreak85 , Feb 12 2004 11:58 PM
6 replies to this topic
Posted 12 February 2004 - 11:58 PM
Posted 13 February 2004 - 12:35 PM
If it's a Subaru engine that you are looking for, why would you want to buy it from anyone besides CCR?
Posted 13 February 2004 - 12:50 PM
Able engines sell reconditioned engines, but I can't remember their site or if they sold the EA81T - heres what I got: http://cgi.ebay.com/...bayphotohosting
Link might not work - try searching for able engines on google or something, I'll help you search later - try archives too. Thats how I found Able. CCR is probably your best choice.
Link might not work - try searching for able engines on google or something, I'll help you search later - try archives too. Thats how I found Able. CCR is probably your best choice.
Posted 15 February 2004 - 03:59 PM
thanks Ben, didnt know you knew so much about rebuilt engines? j/k. I think Im gonna try to get a CCR short block and put the top end on myself. CCR long blocks are 'spensive! $1000 for EA81T!!!
Posted 15 February 2004 - 05:59 PM
As far as competitors pricing 1000 for a long block is a down right steal. and that includes a 3/36 warranty, the same as a new subaru.
Posted 15 February 2004 - 07:43 PM
Originally posted by chef_tim
If you have it, it is money well spent. Tim
I agree. I haven't bought any engines from CCR, but when they save your life by selling you a rebuilt Hill-Holder valve so you don't hafta get reamed at the dealer, you start to like them!
Posted 15 February 2004 - 07:45 PM
CCR definitely is the way to go for competitive pricing. AAA-1 said a shortblock would be around $1400 from them. A complete engine from CCR is not much more than that.
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text:
More thread.
April 2013 Open Thread
#1 Wow April 7, 2013
"Ah, yes, Wow, that would be the Svante Arrhenius who:"
Doesn't agree with duffer's denial, therefore isn't actually a "pre-eminent scientist".
#2 Wow April 7, 2013
Olap, don't mention that you haven't actually proven you know what the difference between weather and climate is.
And don't mention that all duffer wanted was "pre-eminent scientist of his age" to be believed as a sole and accurate source of authority.
#3 David DuffThis Septic IsleApril 7, 2013
And Chek, true to form, out wows Wow with this little gem:
"science and scientists are not the same thing"
Believe me, Chek, I have studied the Unified Church of Global Warming for long enough to learn that!
And Olaus, thank you, my word, what a hero Arrhenius must be to Wow et al, on "the board of Sweden's State Institute of Racial Biology" no less. Not, of course, that that has any bearing on his scientific abilities but it says much about his judgment on other matters.
#4 BBD April 7, 2013
The history of climate change science is well-known, and can be reviewed here. There is no corruption, no fakery, no left-Green politics and there is a great deal more to it than Arrhenius.
By engaging in a franklyt ridiculous ad hominem instead of saying anything substantive about science you simply emphasise that you have no argument.
It is, as ever, a miserable *but instructive* spectacle.
#5 chek April 7, 2013
Not to mention that in his glee to condemn, Duffer andhis new sidekick Olap would probably be surprised that many prominent thinkers in the late 19th, early 20th Century were interested in the benefits of eugenics, from Churchill to Beveridge (yes, that one), Grorge Bernard Shaw, Alexander Graham Bell and many, many more. It was the brutal extermination program of the German State in the 1940s that has made the subject taboo since.
Mind you, when the cretinous calibre of denialism and its whacky belief system is examined, it may be that those early intellectuals in favour of eugenics could foresee the dangers of a world inhabited by morons in turn guided by demagogues.
#6 Lionel A April 7, 2013
Now you pay attention Duff of #87, most of us around here have been well aware of Freeman Dyson's support for the denial-o-sphere and for some time.
Dyson's opinions on this topic are of little import for he has gone the way of Edward Teller before him, astray down a path he does not fully understand, or maybe pretends not to.
A good path to enlightenment for you is Dyson Exegesis.
And OP, yes we did know of some of the beliefs of one Svante Arrhenius, don't forget that 'the past is a different country, they did things differently there', but thanks for the hook here is an article which you ignoramuses around here would find beneficial, you see it isn't all about models:
The History of Climate Science.
It is a common theme amongst deniers and delayers that they forget the huge amounts of knowledge accumulated about radiative physics.
#7 Olaus Petri April 7, 2013
I'll be damed, the Skippy bunch tries to look well read. 🙂 Not that I will argue the eugenics-point but there are plenty of that kind of creepy thinking to be found in the currents of the climate scare hype.
#8 RednoseUKApril 7, 2013
I am so glad you cleared up the mystery of Jeff Hardy's identitiy.
I thought it might be this individual
Our Jeff is much more fluffy.
#9 Wow April 7, 2013
"Believe me, Chek, I have studied the Unified Church of Global Warming for long enough to learn that!"
That's OK, duffer, you can say the URL where you studied that: http://www.wattsupwiththat.com
#10 Wow April 7, 2013
"I'll be damed, the Skippy bunch tries to look well read"
Whereas you have no cares about the fact that you don't know what climate is.
#11 David DuffThis Septic IsleApril 7, 2013
Just to be clear, I have no objection to the study of racial biology, it's *how* you do it and *what* you do with it that matters. In fact, you could say the same thing about climatology. Alas, BIG fail in both!
And so, BBD, you can say with hand on heart that there was "no corruption, no fakery, no left-Green politics" and absolutely no "hide the decline"!
#12 Wow April 7, 2013
So why did you whine about it, duffer?
#13 Jeff Harvey April 7, 2013
Two points:
Duff is still having to deal with the embarrassment of his calling Obama a communist. How he can write in here any more after that clearly ignorant statement is beyond me. Obama is a corporate president if ever there was one, which makes anything Duff claims to be taken with a huge bag of salt.
Rednose has had to search the internet to find some post in which a guy with the same name as me (but who looks older if I may say so) has been arrested for DUI in Maine. Considering the name Jeff Harvey is hardly rare, methinks Rednose's joke is a little flat. But give him his due. He's had to do everything he can since I exposed his inability to understand the importance of scale in the the Earth and environmental sciences. After my demolition, the idiot disappeared for a week or so, clearly licking his wounds. But then, for some weird reason, he wades back in here to spew out more bilge.
What's clear here is that not a single AGW denier has even the most basic grounding in science. Every one of them sticks their foot in their mouth with every comment. They continually confuse weather and climate. They do not understand why large scale systems exhibit deterministic properties whilst small scale systems exhibit stochastic properties. They are the equivalent of someone who claims to be an expert in taxonomy but who cannot tell a grasshopper from an elephant.
And yet they persist. In a way, its a good thing, because first time visitors with open minds visiting Deltoid who read their garbage should quickly realize that the intellectual level of many climate change deniers is benthic.
#14 Olaus Petri April 7, 2013
#15 David DuffThis Septic IsleApril 7, 2013
Thank you, Jeff – no, no, I mean it, really, thank you!
You see I do like discovering new words and "benthic" is absolutely new to me. However, on looking it up in my trusty OED and after due consideration, I would rather be described as "benthic" than as a 'floater', which good manners constrains me from applying to anyone here, much as I would like to do!
Oh, and by the way, I think I described Obama as a "Marxist" rather than a "communist". There is some evidence to support my claim (which should give you pleasure, Jeff) because America has just become the first country anywhere to comply with 1997 Kyoto protocol targets with regard to CO2 emission. Er, not because their daft Greenery laws has had any effect but simply because the US economy is failing due to Obama's Marxist policies.
So, BIG WIN for you, Jeff, and final victory will be announced when we are all back living in caves and eating bark!
#16 chek April 7, 2013
the US economy is failing due to Obama's Marxist policies
Care to cite which 'Marxist' policies?
Or might it be the $1.5 quadrillion in derivatives (for scale the global GDP is ~$60 trillion) borrowed from the future by those clever financial instrumental virtuosos with no hope in hell of ever paying it off with the anthropocene now upon us..
#17 Wow April 7, 2013
duffer, you've already shown that what you think and what is objectively there parted ways years ago.
#18 Anthony David April 7, 2013
Plimer, Monckton, Carter, Pell, Aitken and the denierbots frequenting this blog all have one thing in common. They are all carrying on from the Cold War. Having "stared down the Soviet Union", they have turned their bleary gaze on what they think are "sleeper fifth columners" working to bring Capitalism down from within. Because these warriors see every perceived threat to their lifestyle through the prism of the Cold War, they are blind to facts that do not fit with their long-gone reality. They know some pinko scientist, so every scientist is a pinko and is not to be trusted.
#19 lord_sidcup April 7, 2013
I described Obama as a "Marxist"
Dictatorship of the proletariat, innit.
I had no idea you were that nuts, Duff.
#20 BBD April 7, 2013
# 8 Clown
Nice to see you reduced to desperate and silly behaviour like this. I have little doubt that the JH commenting here will agree.
Argument ad hominem is both a logical fallacy and a tell. It tells us that you have exactly nothing left in your magazine.
#21 Wow April 7, 2013
You could be right for a lot of the teabagger-level deniers we get on here, Anthony.
Hey, Olap, I see you admit you do not know what climate is.
#22 Olaus Petri April 7, 2013
Well Wow, you are the one constantly claiming that singular and regional events are a proof of CAGW, not me. 🙂
Lets be happy about the coral reef shall we?
#23 Wow April 7, 2013
Well, you were the one asserting you knew the difference between climate and weather and have now shown yourself to have lied. 😛
#24 RednoseUKApril 7, 2013
Have you absolutely no sense of humour?
Even Jeff raised a little smile.
"Argument ad hominem is both a logical fallacy and a tell. It tells us that you have exactly nothing left in your magazine"
Whereas you have Argument ad Hominem and Strawmen in yours.
#25 Wow April 7, 2013
Ah, yes, "I was only kidding".
It doesn't work, duffer.
#26 chek April 7, 2013
And now we learn that 'arctic amplification' (a predicted effect of AGW) is sold to the fuckwits, as selflessly exemplified by Olap here, as a 'regional effect' – therefore decoupling it entirely from the global picture.
Thus the circle is easily squared when you're a fuckwitted, right-wing ignoramus with nary an original thought to ripple across the activity-free, mill-pond like mind of the corporate-fed denier moron.
#27 BBD April 7, 2013
# 24 Clown
Whereas you have Argument ad Hominem and Strawmen in yours.
You are scuppered and you know it. But witter on for form's sake by all means.
#28 BBD April 8, 2013
# 11 David Duff
And so, BBD, you can say with hand on heart that there was "no corruption, no fakery, no left-Green politics" and absolutely no "hide the decline"!
Enough to "corrupt" a multi-disciplinary field of science? You are a conspiracy theorist!
And a fuckwit.
#29 bill April 8, 2013
Denial goes completely feral.
Yep, this is a good-faith debate with honourable people who really have a case! (/sarc)
#30 JohnL April 8, 2013
Tamino's response:
Me, i'd just say Delingpole is a tosser and go back to ignoring him.
#31 bill April 8, 2013
In, one notes, The Telegraph.
Delingpole, like Keyes, clearly wasn't schooled in the notion of being careful what you wish for…
#32 Lotharsson April 8, 2013
Previous Deltoid subject Ridley appears once more as the subject of a recent SkS article. One of the Ridley claims examined is the one Duff(?) touted Dyson making – that more CO2 is better for agriculture, so keep on keeping on.
No doubt we'll see the same argument made again a few months, and then again a few months after that…
#33 MikeH April 8, 2013
The dickhead Delingpole concedes that the climate "debate" is over politics not science.
I note that warmists are often banging on about the fact that sceptics like Christopher Booker and myself "only" have arts degrees. But actually that's our strength, not our weakness. Our intellectual training qualifies us better than any scientist – social or natural sciences – for us to understand that this is, au fond, not a scientific debate but a cultural and rhetorical one.
#34 Jeff Harvey April 8, 2013
This argument postulated by Dyson and rehashed by Duff (essentially Curtin redux) of a C02 fertilization effect is kindergarten level science. There are far more factors that affect plant biomass than atmospheric C02 concentrations. Biotic and abiotic processes (both soil,and above-ground) are critical, as well as the plant's evolutionary history with respect to C, N and P ratios in its shoot and root tissues. Then there is the little matter of other primary and secondary metabolites, and of course interactions with consumers up the food chain, including pollinators, antagonists and natural enemies.
All of these salient facts are conveniently ignored by the army of ignoranti who are clueless when it comes to ecophysiology. Again, natural systems are characterized by decidedly non-linear dynamics and complexity. Both of these factors are beyond the understanding of those bolstering political agendas masquerading as 'sound science'.
#35 Jeff Harvey April 8, 2013
"Oh, and by the way, I think I described Obama as a "Marxist" rather than a "communist".
Big difference Duffer – given Obama's slavish support for the military-industrial complex and the billions he received from the banking and corporate sectors for his election and re-election campaigns, one can only conclude that his politics fall safely within the boundaries set by the elite establishment. He was vetted long before he came within a light year of the Oval Office by corporate lobbyists (Street, 2008), who made sure that he was no threat to them. Time you learned a little bit about the world, Duffer, instead of parroting the line laid out for you by right wing pundits.
Your comments are infantile rubbish for the most part, packaged with witless prose. I'd advise you to stick to your feeble little weblog.
#36 Lotharsson April 8, 2013
The dickhead Delingpole concedes that the climate "debate" is over politics not science.
I noticed that. Bit of an own goal by Delingpole – and those who eagerly cite him as (what they think is) a good argument with respect to climate science.
#37 David DuffThis Septic IsleApril 8, 2013
Jeff, I'd stick to benthic matters if I were you and avoid political philosophy of which you have a less than commanding grasp. Here are some quotes for you to ponder upon in those few precious minutes you can spare from saving the globe:
"The surest way to destroy a nation is to debauch its currency": The dollar has dropped 20% in value against a basket of currencies in the last 10 years. Currently the US government owes the world $16 trill. By the time Obama leaves it will be $20 trill.
"Socialized medicine is the keystone to the arch of the socialist state": Anyone for Obamacare?
"One of the basic conditions for the victory of socialism is the arming of the workers (Communist) and the disarming of the bourgeoisie (the middle class)." Gun control legislation?
"…first ascertain exactly the position of the various capitalists, then control them, influence them by restricting or enlarging, facilitating or hindering their credits, and finally they can entirely determine their fate." And you think the banks control Obama?!!! Do me a favour, the Fed Reserve can switch the money printing services on or off!
"We can and must write in a language which sows among the masses hate, revulsion, and scorn toward those who disagree with us." Read the US press recently, Jeff? Or listened to their TV networks, to say nothing of "un-named spokesmen" in the White House.
"The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation." Obama wants to raise taxes, and printing money = inflation.
Jeff, when you've saved the world, read up on Saul Alinsky, Obama and his cohorts were brought up on him!
#38 MikeH April 8, 2013
I award 4 tinfoil hats to the Duffer's latest contribution. I would have given an extra hat if he had mentioned the birth certificate.
#39 Marco April 8, 2013
Duff, can you point to the specific clauses in the gun control legislation that would allow guns to stay in the hands of the workers and out of the hands of the bourgeoisie?
When you are done with that, could you please tell me how Obama controls the Fed? Last time I checked, it does not need presidential approval for any actions it takes, nor does it take orders from the president.
#40 zoot April 8, 2013
Rednose appears to be commenting under Duff's nym. Whatever happened to the avuncular old tosspot with the gravy stains on his cardigan? Has Rednose bumped off the memsahib as well? Is it still snowing in Bristol (epicentre of the new ice age)?
#41 David DuffThis Septic IsleApril 8, 2013
Marco, who appoints the Fed Governor?
The point, dear Marco, is first to disarm the bourgeoisie. After that he has a multiplicity of government security agencies all armed to the teeth.
And, Mike, what birth certificate, I haven't seen it, have you?
#42 bill April 8, 2013
Yep, faulty persona control strikes again.
Usual boring bubblehead paranoiac blather, sans the faux bonhomie / used-car salesman patter, which is a minor relief. It's impossible to debate this industrial grade, NRA-level Stupid – nought one can do, really, but scoff briefly and ignore.
#43 bill April 8, 2013
I'm with Noam Chomsky: the CIA is one of the world's most prominent Marxist organizations: they've just reverse-engineered the analysis to assure the other side wins.
Watching idiots bandy about terms they have not the slightest grasp of is never edifying.
#44 RednoseUKApril 8, 2013
"They are all carrying on from the Cold War. Having "stared down the Soviet Union""
You might be onto something there.
Its always puzzled me as to what happened to those little groups of unwashed, bearded Socialist Workers, Trotskyists and the like, you used to see huddled around their posters proclaiming the benefits of "The Soviet System" and the imminent downfall of The West.
Where are they today?
#45 Wow April 8, 2013
Duffer, who appointed the last Fed Governor?
#46 BBD April 8, 2013
Ah dear God. Delingtool strikes again and a nation hangs it head in shame. Next, somebody will mention The Corbyn and I will have to go to my study and shoot meself.
I literally couldn't finish it, and you know how hot I am on RTFR. But I couldn't. There are limits.
I am amazed that even litter tray liner like the Torygraph allows this swivel-eyed ranting to appear under its banner. WTF? One day, this shite will come back to haunt them. Editorial blind-spot.
#47 lord_sidcup April 8, 2013
..what happened to those little groups of unwashed, bearded Socialist Workers, Trotskyists and the like..
Some of them morphed into libertarians and AGW deniers:
#48 lord_sidcup April 8, 2013
..what happened to those little groups of unwashed, bearded Socialist Workers, Trotskyists and the like..
Piers Corbyn is now lauded by AGW deniers.
Does anyone know, does Corbyn still consider himself a Marxist?
#49 Lionel A April 8, 2013
Joe Romm has a good article on this latest tirade from Delingpole (I am beginning top wonder if Delingpole is related to Melanie Phillips.):
Denier Delingpole Wishes For 'Climate Nuremberg', Says 'Hanging Is Far Too Good' For Climate Scientists!. Some good comments at Tamino's too.
How are you getting on polishing Delingpole's boots Duff? Don't forget to use plenty of spit – you should remember how to do this.
#50 Lionel A April 8, 2013
And WRT rain and Buenos Aires, or anywhere else for that matter, Karen you were saying?
When It Rains, It Pours: Study Confirms Climate Change Will Keep Driving More Intense Precipitation.
#51 BBD April 8, 2013
# 48
#52 David DuffThis Septic IsleApril 8, 2013
@ Wow #45:
"Bernanke was confirmed for a second term as chairman on January 28, 2010, after being re-nominated by President Barack Obama."
#53 Wow April 8, 2013
Uh, we were talking about the Feds, FBI, not the federal bank.
#54 Wow April 8, 2013
On February 1, 2006, President Bush appointed Bernanke to a fourteen-year term as a member of the Federal Reserve Board of Governors, and to a four-year term as Chairman.
(but the federal bank can't arrest people, so can't be used to oppress the populace)
#55 lord_sidcup April 8, 2013
Whoops. Thought you were speaking metaphorically.
#56 Marco April 8, 2013
Duff, the Board of Governors is not the sole group that makes the decisions at the Federal Reserve. And while Obama reaffirmed Bernanke's position as chairman, he did not elect him to the Board of Governors.
#57 Karen April 8, 2013
Lien Nell, @ #50 here is the (toilet) paper
[1] Probable Maximum Precipitation (PMP) is the greatest accumulation of precipitation for a given duration meteorologically possible for an area. Climate change effects on PMP are analyzed, in particular, maximization of moisture and persistent upward motion, using both climate model simulations and conceptual models of relevant meteorological systems. Climate model simulations indicate a substantial future increase in mean and maximum water vapor concentrations. For the RCP8.5 scenario, the changes in maximum values for the continental United States are approximately 20–30% by 2071–2100. The magnitudes of the maximum water vapor changes follow temperature changes with an approximate Clausius-Clapeyron relationship. Model-simulated changes in maximum vertical and horizontal winds are too small to offset water vapor changes. Thus, our conclusion is that the most scientifically sound projection is that PMP values will increase in the future due to higher levels of atmospheric moisture content and consequent higher levels of moisture transport into storms.
"climate model simulations"
"conceptual models"
and…drum roll……… "Thus, our conclusion is that the most scientifically sound projection is that PMP (new buzz word. lol) values will increase in the future due to higher levels of atmospheric moisture content and consequent higher levels of moisture transport into storms."
hehehehe, it only seems like yesterday that we were told repeatably that "it was never going to rain again" LOL,
It now appears that a really really really really smart carbonazi had a nano second of brilliance recently.
der, maybe if it gedz hodder dare mite b mor vap a rashun,
derrrrrrrr, dat mite mene mor wane ?
meanwhile……………….as planet earth emerges (naturally) from THE LITTLE ICE AGE many many the marxist cult of carbonazi's are desperately twisting and turning their pathetic tales of doom and gloom in an effort to convince the sheeple that weather is climate. 🙂
#58 Wow April 8, 2013
Yes, "der, mabe if it gedz" is about your level of comprehension.
#59 RednoseUKApril 8, 2013
Interesting link, though "Sourcewatch" seems a little paranoid seeing conspiracies all over the place.
"The Institute of Ideas (IoI) is a successor project to Living Marxism and an intellectual home of the LM group. A flagwaver for the political network's libertarian agenda, the organisation has been described by critics as "media-friendly Tory extremists." "
Not sure if IDS and Theresa May fit into LM and the cause of international socialism.
Anyway. What happened to Smithy?
#60 Jeff Harvey April 8, 2013
One wonders why Karen here isn't a world reknowned scientist with hundreds of publications and thousands of citatiosn when he/she/it routinely dispenses out opinions on what classifies as 'good' or 'bad' science.
Instead, Karne has no scientific crednetials, has never published a paper in any format in any scientific journal, he/she/it has never attended a conference or workshop where these issues are discussed and debated.
Instead, Karen is a grade A schmuck. Best ignored.
#61 chek April 8, 2013
as planet earth emerges (naturally) from THE LITTLE ICE AGE
So just how does a planet 'naturally emerge' from an LIA event, Karen?
#62 Karen April 8, 2013
For those of you out there in LA LA Land
Global sea ice has been above the 1979-2008 average FOR 50 DAYS
#63 Birger Johansson April 8, 2013
(OT) Margaret Thatcher 1925-2013
#64 Jeff Harvey April 8, 2013
Duff you blithering old fool,
Who wrote Obamacare? The bloody Heritage Foundation, with support for the pharamceutical and insurance companies, that's who. Obama is no more itnerested in social health care than was Kerry before him.
Gun control? You actually think the gutless Democrats are actuially interested in this? Seriously? And you think that those who advocate some minor limits on gun ownership and assault weapons are socialists?
You are as daft as a loon. Obama is well embedded in the corporate state. An integral part of the link between industry and the Pentagon. Richard Nixon was to the left of Obama politically; even Barry Goldwater, for heaven's sake, was probably not far off on the political spectrum from the current Obama administration.
As I said before, the corporate-political establishment in the US realized that Bush and the neocons wore their political ideologies on their sleeves, and hence they needed to put an acceptable apparently 'liberal' face on a new leader who would, in reality, be no threat to their interests. Obama was the perfect individual. Liberalism is dead in America. Chris Hedges has written about this extensively but what is now in place is a supine Democratic Party which is essentially indistinguishable from the Republicans. In the 1960s and 1970s the democrats hasd a little spine, but that's been lost since the 1980s and the rush to embrace absolute free markets and the attendant predatory capitalism which now characterizes US domestic and foreign policy. John Perkins has written about this as well in his books; the best critiques of Obama come from Paul Street, however.
I won't waste any more of my valuable time on this grade-school posturing of Duff. His post in response to mine was basal.
#65 BBD April 8, 2013
Why wouldn't precipitation increase if OHC, SST, LST and tropospheric T increase?
Please explain why the hypothesis is wrong. Please provide your explanation for what effects you think warming will have on the hydrological cycle and why.
#66 Karen April 8, 2013
Take note that previously Jeffery has spouted off that if someone doesn't believe the CO2 fairytale then they are politically motivated.
#67 Jeff Harvey April 8, 2013
…three things from Karen's graph:
1. It reveals a definite downward global trend;
2. Its lumps all global data into one and does not show regional anomalies;
3. It says nothing about ice thickness, which is certainly in freefall.
What did I say about the 'thing' (Karen) above? It all stands. Not a scientific qualification in sight but he/she/it thinks it knows more than the experts. Dunning-Kruger personified.
#68 Karen April 8, 2013
BBD I am sure that you are one those climate "bots" I have heard about, a computer generated reply numptie 🙂
#69 Jeff Harvey April 8, 2013
Note that Karen, (the thing) claims, without a single scientific qualification, that there is a "C02 fairytale".
This view, of course, is totally at odds with most expert opinion and with the empirical evidence. Karen's scientific bonafides wouldn't reach up to the sole of my shoe, yet he/she/it think that he/she/it is somethng of an expert.
A bonafide idiot, more like, with delusions of grandeur (Dunning-Kruger redux).
#70 BBD April 8, 2013
Radiative physics isn't politically motivated.
Denial of radiative physics frequently *is* politically motivated.
And now, for your thoughts on # 65…
#71 chek April 8, 2013
Global sea ice has been above the 1979-2008 average FOR 50 DAYS
..and your preferred disinformers are correctly certain that you'll be satisfied with that, because you're too dim to know the difference between area and volume and the longevity of first year ice when the melt season starts.
In the same way that you'd be satisfied with a gold plated trinket rather than a solid gold one. The area of gold's the same, innit?
Too dim for words, like the 'naturally emerging from LIA bollocks – as if the Earth just flew through a 'cold area' of space or whatever asinine mechanisms morons imagine within their pointy little heads. Because 'naturally' it's not something you'd ever bother to research, is it Karen?
#72 Wow April 8, 2013
re: 66, yeah, you're lying. Again.
#73 Wow April 8, 2013
"Global sea ice has been above the 1979-2008 average FOR 50 DAYS"
Nope. There has been far far less sea ice than ever before.
Spreading your butter more thinly doesn't mean you have more butter.
#74 Karen April 8, 2013
Take note that in post # 67 Jeffery thinks "regional anomalies" are climate. lol
this guy tells us he is the climate god. hahaha
#75 Wow April 8, 2013
take not that spots still hasn't managed to answer 65.
nor show any proof of their assertions.
spots merely states. accuracy is expendable in the fight against rationality.
#76 Karen April 8, 2013
You guys are looking pretty dumb right now, lol
#77 Wow April 8, 2013
no, spots, you're looking in the webcam again.
#78 BBD April 8, 2013
Karen, why haven't you explained your reasoning yet?
Why wouldn't precipitation increase if OHC, SST, LST and tropospheric T increase?
Please explain why the hypothesis is wrong. Please provide your explanation for what effects you think warming will have on the hydrological cycle and why.
These are reasonable questions, so I am at a loss to explain your bizarre 'response' above:
BBD I am sure that you are one those climate "bots" I have heard about, a computer generated reply numptie
Unless of course it is a crude attempt to avoid answering the *actual questions* that I asked.
Could that bit it, Karen?
#79 Jeff Harvey April 8, 2013
"You guys are looking pretty dumb right now, lol"
Look in the mirror, thing…
And yes, regional patterns are indeed 'climate' if the temporal scale is sufficient.
You are really a scientifically illiterate moron..
#80 RednoseUKApril 8, 2013
"Spreading your butter more thinly doesn't mean you have more butter."
No, but you have a bigger shiny yellow patch, keeping radiation from the bread underneath, to continue along this food analogy.
Time for lunch.
#81 Karen April 8, 2013
Listen Dumbo, the warmists were the ones that said it wasn't "gunna rain again".
It doesn't rain and then it pours…………
nothing new about that numptie
#82 Lotharsson April 8, 2013
I award 4 tinfoil hats to the Duffer's latest contribution.
The weak attempt to garner the extra hat is discounted for being submitted after the buzzer. A protest has also been lodged alleging athlete substitution using a false identity which is being adjudicated as we speak…
#83 Wow April 8, 2013
"No, but you have a bigger shiny yellow patch"
Uh, winter. No sunlight, nothing to shine.
"keeping radiation from the bread underneath"
Since ice is not 100% perfectly reflective, the ice would absorb some energy and do you know what happens when you heat ice?
It melts, duffer.
And if it's spread thinly, then it doesn't take much to melt it all the way through.
Then it's all gone.
But it still doesn't mean you have more ice just because it's spread thinner. Maybe you need to take this up with spots.
You won't, since deniers never upbraid their fellow deniers, but you should.
#84 Karen April 8, 2013
Jeffery……….um………why don't you write us an epic saga again about the northward march of the biota because its getting tooooo warm ?
#85 Wow April 8, 2013
yup, more assertion of someone else's statement from spots in #81.
Nothing new.
#86 Jeff Harvey April 8, 2013
What a comedy tag-team – Karen and Rednose – neither of whom understands the importance of scale in Earth and climate science but who seem content to wade in here repeatedly with their kindergarten level science.
Both of these dolts are graduates of the Dunning-Kruger school of overestimating one's knowledge.
PS: Karen, or whoever the hell you are, I never claimed to be a climate scientist. But I certainly have an infinite better understanding of environmental science than you do. And your consistent inability to be able to separate stochasticism from determinism and to understand at which point one scale tips in the favor of another demolishes every point you feebly try and make here. But if you insist on making yourself a continual laughingstock, go ahead.Your posts are so simple that they are always worth a good laugh. Trouble is, you honestly think you are on top of the field.
Think again, darling.
#87 chek April 8, 2013
Listen Dumbo, the warmists were the ones that said it wasn't "gunna rain again".
Translation: I can't cite anything to support the contention apart from my own obviously faulty thinking, but 'they 'said that, yes I'm certain 'they' did. And they meant everywhere too as I understood it. Take my ever-so-trustworthy word for it, dumbos.
And just when you think the stupid's bottomed out, it dives to new depths.
#88 Jeff Harvey April 8, 2013
Karen's last post illustrates exactly what I said.
Pure, wilful ignorance. Take one data point and try to make that appear to be a general trend. He/she/it does this over and over and over again on Deltoid. I could cite hundreds of studies shwoing phenological and/or geogrpahical shifts in species activities or distributions in response to long-term warming. Karen finds a single non-peer-reviewed newspaper piece showing one outlying example and pastes it here as if this is the norm.
Gee, Karen, you make annihalating your arguments so easy. As I said, your posts are elementary school level science personified.
#89 Jeff Harvey April 8, 2013
…and read the article, for heaven's sake. Marine turtles do not normally spend winters as far north as New England! The article reveals that last years record warm winter may have been responsible for these reptiles staying well north of their normal wintering waters.
Sheesh, Karen's straws are getting shorter and shorter. What a hoot.
#90 BBD April 8, 2013
# 78
Answer the questions please. Explain your reasoning.
Argument by denial and by assumption is not sufficient.
#91 Wow April 8, 2013
I rather suspect that karenmackspot is a genuinely paid troll and they google for links to papers to prop up on science blogs and are only looking for keywords, never actually reading up on it.
#92 lord_sidcup April 8, 2013
Not sure if IDS and Theresa May fit into LM and the cause of international socialism.
They don't, have never been associated with LM, nor are they AGW deniers. No idea why you mention them. Must be reading comprehension failing again.
#93 BBD April 8, 2013
I won't speculate on motive, but I know from our past exchanges that 'Karen' never reads the stuff she references – only pap from WTFUWT etc.
She is, as Jeff has repeatedly and correctly demonstrated, scientifically illiterate but I would go further: she is simply not interested in scientific evidence or rational discussion of same.
Therefore she is clearly and demonstrably a troll here. We can be certain of that.
#94 BBD April 8, 2013
# 92
Amazing the correlation between the trolling and dodgy reading comprehension. Teh stupid, it's everywhere.
#95 Wow April 8, 2013
Aye, but spots finds them and they aren't as easily seen as sourced from denier blogrolls like the shit duffer drags on here.
Hence I think the search is actually a job and resources allocated to do so.
Hence spots is paid-for shilling.
#96 BBD April 8, 2013
It's an interesting point. She does come up with some unusual references but there's a mass of disinformation swirling around out there.
#97 BBD April 8, 2013
Here's where Karen got the '50 days' stuff from. And this was my first serious guess; I didn't even need Google – just went to the stinking midden that is Goddard's site and started digging down through the strata of putrefying chum.
#98 Wow April 8, 2013
I was thinking more the turtle thing.
#99 BBD April 8, 2013
Yes, that was odd…
Just her bad luck to run into Jeff Harvey with that one 😉
You could be right but my point is that we can't demonstrate it. We can only show that she's a DK troll who doesn't even read the stuff she references.
Suggestive – but not conclusive. Such is life…
#100 Lionel A April 8, 2013
Duffer the Puffer (Magic Dragons by courtesy of Cardinal Puff maybe),
"We can and must write in a language which sows among the masses hate, revulsion, and scorn toward those who disagree with us." Read the US press recently, Jeff?
You sure know how to pick them do you NOT.
NOT, have your read Delingpole's recent frothings? Maybe you could help him with more as it seems like your style.
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text:
1- DrDoom, is in charge. He will have the final say in who got the correct answer, the final winner and any other issues that may come up. He is a Herald of Galactus and therefore have his support in any decision made. Should there be any questions, he will pause the game and refer to sources and peers for assistance, but he will have the final say in the matter.
ANY USER WHO IS DEEMED BEING A DOUCHE, WILL HAVE THEIR ACCOUNT DISABLED BY GALACTUS UNTIL THE QUIZ IS COMPLETE! So, don't be a douche. Being a douche includes doing your own countdown, therefore interrupting DrDoom's countdown to the question. 2- DrDoom will ask a question and the first person to answer correctly...gets a point. The person with the highest point count at the end...WINS!
3- Should there be a tie, a final question will be asked in which only the tied users will participate! The user who gets the correct answer wins.
4- DrDoom will have 15 questions to ask which will pertain to Resident Evil video games.
5- When answering, no abbreviations or initials will be accepted; DrDoom needs the full answer. Also, the correct spelling of the answer is required. All other answers will be discarded.
6- The prize will be a surprise box full of stuff (dvds & blurays , comics, trinkets) that Galactus has lying around his office that the movie companies send him. Once the winner is determined, they will notify Galactus with their information to receive the prize. 7- There will be no tolerance for smart-asses during the quiz. If DrDoom finds you are making it hard for others to enjoy the quiz, you will be disqualified and ineligible to participate. This quiz is supposed to be fun, so let other people enjoy it.
8- If you have been the winner within the last 5 quizzes, we ask that you sit this one out. Your help in keeping score and watching for the user who gets the answer correct first is greatly appreciated. This will also give other users the opportunity to win a great prize.


text: He Everyone, I am editing a document and have several questions (which I will post separately). First, which would be the more accurate or most common way to interpret questions that begin with "Have you ever" in English? For example, Have you ever fainted? My attempts: 1. Alguna vez se ha desmayado? 2. Se ha desmayado alguna vez? Does it mater where I place "alguna vez"? Thank you.


text:
In the new New Yorker magazine profile by Ken Auletta it's revealed that what pushed Jill Abramson to the front of the pack as the replacement for Bill Keller, executive editor of The New York Times was her honesty about her faults. Though women are always told they need to state their accomplishments more, then managing editor Jill said in her interview with publisher Arthur Sulzberger that she admitted she needed to work on listening more and talking less, and not interrupting. Her honesty obviously helped her land the job as well as strong recommendations from Keller and Janet Robinson. It is interesting because often women are told they need to speak up more in addition to listening. But by showing that she was aware of what she needed to work on she came across as smart and determined.
The profile paints an honest portrayal of the first female editor of The New York Times ever. He describes her manner as "brusque." Jeff Gerth, an investigative reporter, says in the article, "She was a great team leader, a loyal friend, someone you'd want in the trenches with you. But if you didn't meet her high professional standards you were not on her team." She was also described as being short with people and sometimes berating people publicly if they didn't meet her standards. Auletta describes her as being similar to former editor Howell Raines, but unlike him, people didn't think she was mean. "Her negativity is unintended," an editor tells Auletta. It is interesting that the author chooses to include all these details instead of just making her look like another woman that has risen to the top partly because of her bitchy attitude. In the article Sally Singer, editor of The New York Times' magazine T said, "When women are blunt, maybe it's seen as 'tough,' but actually it's just efficient. " Singer formerly worked for Anna Wintour at Vogue so she knows a thing or two.
The article also makes it clear that she is not someone who reached the top and pulled the ladder up behind her. Auletta wrote:
During Abramson's tenure as managing editor, many women at the Times came to see her as their advocate. When women received promotions, Abramson often hosted a celebratory party for them. These events got to be so frequent, the European correspondent Suzanne Daley joked, "it almost became 'Oh, God, another party!' I credit her with being the first woman to hit that level and actually bring other people along."
I'd also like to commend her for deciding to write a book about raising her dog. As a hard-hitting New York Times journalist Auletta conveys that the choice to write a book about something so personal and, well, cute drew a lot of flack. "She knew before she did The Puppy Diaries that she would get a lot of grief," Trish Hall, the deputy editorial-page editor who edited the column, says. "She didn't care. I like it that she's got this rich life. It used to be that women wouldn't talk about when their kid had a dentist appointment. Jill doesn't pretend that work is the only thing in her life." Here is a top notch career woman deciding to write about the life side of the work life balance.


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text:
Carnegie Mellon receives NIMH/NSF grant to examine mechanisms that underlie neuronal synchronization
Research could lead to better understanding of schizophrenia
PITTSBURGH -- Carnegie Mellon University neuroscientist Nathan Urban has received a $979,000 grant as part of a joint National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH) and National Science Foundation (NSF) program to elucidate how cellular and molecular changes in neurons lead to their synchronized firing. Ultimately, this work is critical to understanding brain disorders, such as schizophrenia, which are thought to involve disruption of neuronal synchronization. The research is part of a project Urban is conducting in collaboration with Bard Ermentrout, University Professor of Computational Biology in the University of Pittsburgh Department of Mathematics.
Neuronal synchronization, especially of high-frequency oscillations called gamma oscillations, is thought to be involved in perception and consciousness. Alterations in this synchrony have been implicated in schizophrenia, a chronic, severe and disabling brain disorder that affects about one percent of people worldwide, according to the NIMH.
"Understanding how normal gamma oscillations are generated is important for understanding disorders such as schizophrenia, which are associated with altered gamma activity," said Urban, an assistant professor of biological sciences in the Mellon College of Science.
The acute symptoms of schizophrenia are currently managed with pharmaceuticals, but understanding the basic mechanisms that underlie neuronal synchronization -- and how it goes awry -- may allow clinicians to treat the root cause of this disorder and not just the symptoms, Urban added.
Urban's NIMH/NSF funding arises from his discovery of stochastic synchrony, a novel mechanism for generating synchronous neuronal firing. With this latest award, he will further investigate the cellular- and circuit-level properties that orchestrate this coordinated neuronal activity.
"Using a combination of experimental and computational techniques, we have described stochastic synchrony, a mechanism by which neurons are synchronized by random, 'noisy' inputs," Urban said. "We are now investigating which properties of neurons are most critical for the development of this 'noise'-induced synchronization."
Neurons convey messages more effectively when they fire together, and networks of neurons often fire together because they are directly connected. However, groups of neurons also fire in chorus even when they are not directly connected. Until now, this type of synchrony has remained difficult to understand. But stochastic, noise-induced synchrony demonstrates how coordinated firing can be caused by a variety of different kinds of random inputs.
Bursts of synchronized neural electrical activity, whether connectivity- or noise-induced, occur at different rates. For example, during sleep the brain's neurons send electrical signals at around four times a second. Higher-level cognitive activities are thought to result from synchronized neuronal firing at about 40 times a second, or what is called the gamma frequency.
Urban has already shown experimentally that noisy inputs can generate oscillatory synchrony in specific types of neurons in the mouse olfactory bulb, the area of the brain responsible for distinguishing odors. Noisy inputs in the olfactory bulb may account for the recognized development of synchronous oscillations in the gamma frequency range, noted Urban, who is exploring this phenomenon further.
"By exploring how gamma oscillations naturally arise in this system, we hope to better understand how altering cellular and circuit-level properties can interfere with the development of normal gamma oscillations," Urban said. He also noted that working out these basic mechanisms in this system could one day help clinicians detect the earliest development of schizophrenia and develop more targeted interventions.
Urban and Ermentrout are focusing on the mouse's olfactory bulb, which they call an elegant system in which to explore the relationship between circuit properties and synchronous oscillations. A mouse can recognize and process tens of thousands of odors, many of which are critical to its survival, including the scent of food and prey. Single molecules of odors can activate widely distributed regions of the olfactory bulb, regions that work together in synchrony to represent an odor. These networks of olfactory bulb neurons can be studied directly by recording activities of just one or two cells at one time. Understanding how the intrinsic properties of neurons and the local circuitry of the olfactory bulb generate synchrony is applicable to all brain networks, according to the researchers.
The Mellon College of Science at Carnegie Mellon conducts innovative research and educational programs in biological sciences, chemistry, physics, mathematics and several interdisciplinary areas. For more information, visit www.cmu.edu/mcs.
Last reviewed: By John M. Grohol, Psy.D. on 30 Apr 2016
Published on PsychCentral.com. All rights reserved.


text:
'Grandfathering' Politics
Council tentatively passes new development rules
By Amy Smith,
2:07PM, Tue. May 6, 2014
A new vested rights ordinance – also known as the "grandfathering" or project duration ordinance – passed on first reading last week, and is set to return to City Council on May 22.
Until then, there could be heavy lobbying by the Real Estate Council of Austin on one side and environmental representatives on the other in an attempt to move the needle in their favor. As they stand now, the new rules appear to have left developers holding the shorter straw.
In short, Council preliminarily passed the ordinance approved by the Planning Commission in April, but added several changes and clarifications in a lengthy, confusing fashion. The vote was 6-1, with Mayor Lee Leffingwell "symbolically" voting no because of what he called a couple of serious flaws in the version as it now exists.
Council is going through this exercise, using buzzwords like the "flat nine," the "new napkin" the "old napkin," and the "dreaded daisy chain," because it repealed its entire project duration ordinance last year after an Attorney General opinion that found the city's development rules to be out of step with state law.
The big-picture items taken up last week included giving developers a nine-year lifespan on their projects, which is what RECA had requested, albeit with more flexibility; establishing guidelines on Managed Growth Agreements (applies to multi-faceted projects such as subdivisions), with the understanding that additional changes would be proposed before the ordinance returns on May 22; and tightened the project consent agreement process that would require landowners claiming grandfathering rights on their projects to make stops at the Environmental Board and the Land Use Commission.
Most of the heavy lifting on the dais was done by Council Members Bill Spelman, Laura Morrison, and Kathie Tovo, who each introduced several amendments. Spelman's motions leaned in the developers' favor while Morrison and Tovo's proposals were more enviro-oriented. Perhaps the most interesting twist turned on the number of times Council Member and mayoral candidate Mike Martinez and Mayor Pro Tem and potential mayoral hopeful Sheryl Cole voted up or down in alignment with Morrison and Tovo. Watch for any windshifts in the May 22 round.
Mary Tuma, Sept. 16, 2016
Michael King, Sept. 9, 2016
Nov. 28, 2014
Oct. 3, 2014
City Council, vested rights ordinance, grandfathering, Lee Leffingwell, Bill Spelman, Kathie Tovo, Laura Morrison, Sheryl Cole, Mike Martinez


text:
Total Body Irradiation With Fludarabine Followed by Combined Umbilical Cord Blood (UCB) Transplants
This study has been completed.
Duke University
Information provided by (Responsible Party):
Duke University
ClinicalTrials.gov Identifier:
First received: January 7, 2008
Last updated: May 15, 2014
Last verified: May 2014
- Full Text View
- Tabular View
- No Study Results Posted
- Disclaimer
- How to Read a Study Record
Detailed Description:
Results to date of umbilical cord blood transplantation in adult and fully mature adolescent patients are inferior to what is seen in children, due to a lower stem cell dosage in adults and a more toxic conditioning regimen. This phase 1 protocol will use a potentially less toxic bone marrow conditioning regimen, followed by infusion of a combined umbilical cord blood graft that will provide the patient with a higher stem cell dose than can be given with a single umbilical cord blood infusion. The subjects will be conditioned with a total body irradiation (TBI) 13.5 Gy and fludarabine. Following conditioning, up to two unrelated, partially matched umbilical cord blood grafts will be infused that will provide a minimum nucleated cell dose of 3 x 10e7/kg . The primary objective of this study is to measure the frequency of treatment-related toxicity and engraftment.
|Lymphoma Myeloma Leukemia Myelodysplasia Solid Tumors Hodgkin's Disease Myelofibrosis
|Procedure: Total Body Irradiation with Fludarabine in UCB Transplants
|Phase 1
|Study Type:
|Study Design:
|Intervention Model: Single Group Assignment
Masking: None (Open Label)
Primary Purpose: Treatment
|Official Title:
|Total Body Irradiation With Fludarabine Conditioning Followed by Transplantation With Combined Umbilical Cord Blood Grafts
Resource links provided by NLM:
Genetics Home Reference related topics: primary myelofibrosis
Drug Information available for: Fludarabine Fludarabine phosphate
Genetic and Rare Diseases Information Center resources: Lymphosarcoma Multiple Myeloma Myelodysplastic Syndromes Myelofibrosis Hodgkin Lymphoma Chronic Myeloproliferative DisordersU.S. FDA Resources
Further study details as provided by Duke University:
Primary Outcome Measures:
- The primary objective will be to measure the time to and rate of hematologic engraftment following transplant and the frequency of treatment-related mortality. [ Time Frame: 3 years ]
Secondary Outcome Measures:
- The secondary objective will be to estimate the proportion of patients developing acute and chronic graft-versus-host disease, 100 day treatment-related mortality, and to measure disease-free survival. [ Time Frame: 3 years ]
- The tertiary objective will be to measure the time to immunologic reconstitution as defined by normal numbers of T and B cells, normal T-cell proliferative responses, normal natural killer (NK) cell function, and normal immunoglobulin synthesis. [ Time Frame: 3 years ]
|Study Start Date:
|September 2005
|Study Completion Date:
|February 2014
|Primary Completion Date:
|February 2014 (Final data collection date for primary outcome measure)
|Assigned Interventions
Experimental: I
Total Body Irradiation (TBI)/Flu Conditioning followed by combined UCB
Procedure: Total Body Irradiation with Fludarabine in UCB Transplants
Administration of the preparative regimen, infusion of the stem cell graft, inpatient care during the immediate post-transplant period and outpatient follow-up for the first 3 months after transplant and at 6, 12, 24 and 36 months. Patients will have human leukocyte antigen (HLA) serologic typing and DNA typing. Bags of UCB are thawed, and diluted by 1:1 volume using a 5% albumin/dextran solution. The thawed and diluted umbilical cord blood unit (UCBU) is next weighed and centrifuged. Specimens are obtained for cell count and viability, culture, clonogenic assays, and phenotype. The UCB is infused at a rate of 1-3 ml/min. Furosemide (0.5-1.0 mg/kg/dose) may be given if volume overload or decreased urine output occurs. Each UCB infusion shall be tested for sterility, CFU content, number of CD34+ cells, cell count and viability.
Detailed Description:
Results to date of umbilical cord blood transplantation in adult and fully mature adolescent patients are inferior to what is seen in children. There are two reasons for this. First is that the stem cell dose, measured in nucleated cells/kg body weight, is considerably lower due to the size of the recipient. This results in a higher incidence of graft failure, delayed engraftment, and impaired immune reconstitution. Multiple studies have suggested that a nucleated cell dose below 1.5 to 2 x 107/kg results in an unacceptably high risk for graft failure. Only a minority of adult patients will have a suitably matched umbilical cord blood unit that contains more than 1.5 x 107 nucleated cells/kg. The second reason for inferior outcome of umbilical cord blood transplantation in adult patients is that in comparison to children, the conventional myeloablative bone marrow conditioning regimens are more toxic. This phase 1 protocol will use a potentially less toxic bone marrow conditioning regimen, followed by infusion of a combined umbilical cord blood graft that will provide the patient with a higher stem cell dose than can be given with a single umbilical cord blood infusion. The subjects will be conditioned with a TBI 13.5 Gy and fludarabine. Fludarabine pharmacokinetics will be measured and correlated with the kinetics of donor cell engraftment as well frequency of treatment-related toxicity. Following conditioning, up to two unrelated, partially matched umbilical cord blood grafts will be infused that will provide a minimum nucleated cell dose of 3 x 10e7/kg. The primary objective of this study is to measure the frequency of treatment-related toxicity and engraftment.
|Ages Eligible for Study:
|14 Years to 65 Years (Child, Adult)
|Sexes Eligible for Study:
|Accepts Healthy Volunteers:
Inclusion Criteria:
- Age 14 to 65 years.
- Available cord blood graft.
- Patients with high risk ALL in first complete remission, with high risk being defined by the presence of t(4;11), t(9;22) or t(1;19) or patients presenting with extreme hyperleukocytosis (WBC > 500,000/ul) or partial remission after induction therapy.
- Adult patients with acute non-lymphocytic leukemia (ANLL) in first complete remission with high-risk cytogenetics (monosomy chromosome 5 or 7, del (5q), abn (3q26), complex karyotypic abnormalities) or failure to achieve complete remission after standard induction therapy.
- All patients with ALL or ANLL in second or subsequent remission or partial remission.
- All patients with CML in chronic (failed interferon and/or Gleevec) or accelerated phase.
- Patients with myelodysplastic syndrome with International Prognostic Scoring System (IPSS) risk category of INT-1 or greater.
- Patients with severe aplastic anemia must have failed immunosuppressive therapy such as cyclosporine plus anti-thymocyte globulin.
Non-Hodgkin's lymphoma or Hodgkin's disease:
- High risk disease in first complete or partial remission
- Chemotherapy-resistant relapse
- Second or subsequent relapse or remission
- Myelofibrosis with myeloid metaplasia.
- High risk, congenital immunodeficiency disorders resulting in recurrent (> 3 episodes) life-threatening infection, known to be curable with allogeneic stem cell transplantation (to include, but not limited to; severe combined immunodeficiency disorder, combined immunodeficiency disease, Wiskott-Aldrich syndrome, Chediak-Higashi syndrome, chronic granulomatous disease, leukocyte adhesion deficiency, hemophagocytic lymphohistiocytosis).
- Patients with a history of CNS disease must have been treated and have no active CNS disease at the time of protocol treatment.
- ECOG performance status < or equal to 2.
Patients must have adequate function of other organ systems as measured by:
- Creatinine clearance (by Cockcroft Gault equation) > or equal to 30 ml/min. Hepatic transaminases (ALT/AST) < or equal to 4 x normal, bilirubin < or equal to 2.0 mg/dl
- Pulmonary function tests demonstrating FVC and FEV1 of > or equal to 50% of predicted for age and DLCO > or equal to 50% of predicted
- Ejection fraction of > or equal to 45% by echocardiogram, radionuclide scan or cardiac MRI
- Patients must be HIV negative.
- They do not have an HLA-ABC/DR identical related bone marrow or UCB donor.
- They do NOT have a 5/6 antigen matched related bone marrow or UCB donor.
- Their condition precludes waiting to search and find a donor in the National Marrow Donor Registry or an 8/8 (HLA-A, B, C, DRB1) antigen by high resolution (allele-level) typing matched unrelated donor was not found.
- Patients must not be pregnant.
Exclusion Criteria:
- Patients that have circulating antibodies specific for donor major histocompatibility antigens (as determined by panel of reactive antibody assay).
- Patients with progressive ANLL or ALL following second or third-line treatment regimens.
Contacts and Locations
Choosing to participate in a study is an important personal decision. Talk with your doctor and family members or friends about deciding to join a study. To learn more about this study, you or your doctor may contact the study research staff using the Contacts provided below. For general information, see Learn About Clinical Studies.
Please refer to this study by its ClinicalTrials.gov identifier: NCT00606437
Please refer to this study by its ClinicalTrials.gov identifier: NCT00606437
|United States, North Carolina
|Duke University Health System
|Durham, North Carolina, United States, 27710
Sponsors and Collaborators
Duke University
|Principal Investigator:
|Mitchell Horwitz, MD
|Duke University Health System
More Information
Keywords provided by Duke University:
Additional relevant MeSH terms:
ClinicalTrials.gov processed this record on September 25, 2017
|Responsible Party:
|Duke University
|ClinicalTrials.gov Identifier:
|NCT00606437 History of Changes
|Other Study ID Numbers:
|Study First Received:
|January 7, 2008
|Last Updated:
|May 15, 2014
Keywords provided by Duke University:
Umbilical Cord Blood Graft
Stem Cell Transplantation
Additional relevant MeSH terms:
Primary Myelofibrosis
Hodgkin Disease
Myelodysplastic Syndromes
Myeloproliferative Disorders
Bone Marrow Diseases
Hematologic Diseases
Neoplasms by Histologic Type
Lymphoproliferative Disorders
Lymphatic Diseases
Immunoproliferative Disorders
Immune System Diseases
Precancerous Conditions
Fludarabine phosphate
Antineoplastic Agents
Antimetabolites, Antineoplastic
Molecular Mechanisms of Pharmacological Action
Immunosuppressive Agents
Immunologic Factors
Physiological Effects of Drugs
Antiviral Agents
Anti-Infective Agents
ClinicalTrials.gov processed this record on September 25, 2017


text:
Managed Competition (MC) among health care financing and delivery systems was first conceived as a proposed public policy to drive delivery system change in the private sector by assuring consumers that they have choices, as well as rewards for choosing high-value providers. Many legislative proposals have used MC ideas in whole or in part. The Affordable Care Act's (ACA) exchanges reflect the MC idea, but the three percent of the population they cover is too small to drive large scale change.
The new private corporate exchanges are also based on MC. While they cover few people now, private exchanges have the potential to change the incentives for tens of millions of consumers, and — if done right — to drive large scale delivery system reform. The combination of both kinds of exchanges could be powerful.
This post puts the idea of managed competition in a historical context, then describes how private exchanges are operationalizing the concept. I conclude with a brief look at how managed competition may develop going forward, and how MC may change the health care system.
The Evolution Of Managed Competition
In 1977, at the invitation of HHS Secretary Joe Califano, I went to work for the Carter Administration as a consultant to develop a plan in response to the President's campaign promise of universal health insurance. At the time, I was also a consultant to Kaiser Permanente , and I was impressed by their systematic approaches to improving quality and cutting cost, and their alignment of provider incentives with the needs and wants of consumers for high-value care. One of the main objectives I sought in designing the plan was to make America safe for high-value systems that attracted and satisfied customers.
When Carter took office, most people were locked into uncoordinated, open-ended fee for service (FFS), as many are even today. Instead, everyone ought to have the opportunity to make an informed, cost-conscious choice of both delivery system and payment system, including some that are not based on FFS.
The idea that informed, cost-conscious consumer choice could transform health care came from the observation that Kaiser's market share in California was very high and growing in the Federal Employees' Health Benefits Program (FEHBP) and in the California Public Employees' Retirement System's health benefits division (CalPERS), two examples of employer-sponsored health insurance exchanges in which everyone had an opportunity to make a cost-conscious individual choice of plan. These exchanges continue in successful operation more than 50 years after their birth.
This essential condition for getting incentives right, that the employee who chose the less costly plan got to keep the savings, was exceptional at that time. In fact, FEHBP and CalPERS were the only two examples I could cite when people assured me that individual choice was impossible. I believed that through such exchanges, consumers would replace open-ended FFS, gradually and voluntarily, with organized systems that offer improved value for money.
I wrote a report to Califano in 1977, and in early 1978 a version was published in the New England Journal of Medicine, called "Consumer Choice Health Plan (CCHP): A National Health Insurance Proposal Based on Regulated Competition in the Private Sector." The proposal did not include special provisions favoring any particular delivery system; I believed that the best delivery systems would do very well in a competitive market on a level playing field. In developing the report and the article, I benefited greatly from the writings and advice of Scott Fleming and Victor Fuchs.
The CCHP idea took on a life of its own, but I was disappointed that the Carter Administration made the doomed choice of seeking price controls on hospitals, rather than seeking to reform the fundamental incentives. Ronald Reagan's campaign manager called to say they liked the idea and offered help. I replied that I appreciated his interest, but my priority was to get Democrats, who had majorities in both Houses, out in front. The Reagan people liked the sound of "competition" but not the "regulated," or "managed" as I later called it. They didn't understand the concept. They thought it meant "deregulation." But a free market for health insurance would not produce acceptable results. There must be rules and a structure.
In 1981, the bi-partisan duo of Richard Gephardt and David Stockman introduced The National Health Care Reform Act, a bill in the House that put CCHP into legislative language.
Fast-forward to 1992. Congressmen Cooper, Andrews and Stenholm, leaders of the Conservative Democratic Forum, introduced the Managed Competition Act of 1992 with 17 Democratic co-sponsors. The following year, the same bill was reintroduced with 18 Republicans and 26 Democrats as co-sponsors.
The Managed Competition Act was quite simple. Its 177 pages described exchanges in each state; a limit on the amount of employer contributions that could be excluded from the taxable income of employees, set at the price of the lowest-priced plan meeting standards in each state exchange; and the budget savings translated into subsidies for low-income individuals purchasing insurance.
Also in 1993, Health Affairs published my "History and Principles of Managed Competition." The key principles I outlined in the article were:
- Price competition at the level of annual premium for comprehensive care, not individual items of service whose value consumers are not well equipped to judge.
- Individual choice. With whole group choice, changing plans would require near unanimous agreement. With individual choice, some people can switch to what they see as the high-value plan even if the rest don't.
- "Sponsors" or "market organizers" or "exchanges" or "Health Insurance Purchasing Cooperatives (HIPCs), either private or public. The sponsors would establish and enforce rules of equity, select participating competing plans, manage the enrollment process, and create price-elastic demand by defined contributions, standard coverage contracts, quality-related information, and management of risk selection through risk adjustment of premiums and standardization of coverage contracts.
Then came the Health Security Act or "the Clinton Plan", a 1342 page bill introduced in November 1993. People observed, correctly, that the Clinton Plan included elements of MC, including Regional Alliances (like Exchanges) and a set of comprehensive minimum standard benefits. But it also included what amounted to price controls, as if the administration did not trust the market. It went nowhere in the Congress. MC was not what killed it.
Managed competition and Medicare. In 1997, in the Balanced Budget Act, Congress focused its attention on Medicare specifically. The National Bipartisan Commission on the Future of Medicare, chaired by Senator John Breaux (D, LA) and Representative Bill Thomas (R, CA), included 17 members, divided between the parties. Bobby Jindal was the Executive Director of the staff. An 11 vote supermajority was required for an official Commission report to the President and the Congress.
The co-chairmen developed a proposal modelled on the FEHBP, combining Medicare Parts A and B, and adding a prescription drug benefit and stop-loss protection to create a standard benefit package. Private health plans and a government-run FFS plan would compete to deliver the services in the package to Medicare beneficiaries; the government would make "premium support payments" to make the coverage affordable to beneficiaries, with special protections for people with low incomes. On average, beneficiaries would pay 12 percent of the total cost. The proposal was estimated to yield substantial savings.
In 1999, the vote was 10 to 7 in favor of the proposal of the Chairmen, one short of the supermajority. Clinton appointees voted no. But the idea of MC to reform Medicare and to break out of the government's commitment to open-ended FFS didn't die then. In November 2010, The Bipartisan Policy Center's Debt Reduction Task Force, led by Pete Domenici, former chairman of the Senate Budget Committee, and Alice Rivlin, founding director of the Congressional Budget Office and Budget Director for President Clinton, released a report that included a "defined support" plan for Medicare based on the same MC ideas. It didn't attract the attention and support it deserved.
In December 2011, Senator Ron Wyden (D OR), now Chair of the Senate Finance Committee, and Representative Paul Ryan(R WI), Chair of the House Budget Committee, introduced a plan called "Guaranteed Choices to Strengthen Medicare and Health Security for All," which was generically similar to the 1998 Breaux-Thomas Commission proposal and MC. MC is an idea leaders of both parties can agree on.
Managed competition in other contexts. To varying extents, managed competition ideas also animated proposals outside of Medicare. 2006 saw the passage of health reform in Massachusetts, "Romneycare," which included the Commonwealth Health Insurance Connector Authority. The Connector resembled MC, but its purpose was to cover the uninsured rather than to permit market forces to drive reform of the financing and delivery system as a whole.
In 2007, the Committee for Economic Development, a nonpartisan nonprofit Washington-based think tank sponsored by business and academia, issued a report recommending everyone be covered through a system of informed, individual consumer cost-conscious choice of plans, with universal premium credits. Its concept was simpler than the ACA, but more radical in proposing to replace completely employer-sponsored health insurance with universal health insurance premium supports, regardless of job. Employer-sponsored insurance adds greatly to the complexity of getting everyone covered.
Also in 2007, Senators Wyden (D,OR) and Bennett (R,UT) introduced the Healthy Americans Act, along with 6 Democratic co-sponsors and 8 Republicans, plus Arlen Specter, who switched parties, and Joe Lieberman, an Independent. Like the CED proposal, the Healthy Americans Act would have replaced the employer-based system with universal market-based coverage. The consumer choice was to be executed through "State Health Help Agencies," which would be exchanges in today's terminology.
The Affordable Care Act (ACA). And of course 2010 saw the passage of the ACA, which included the much-publicized exchanges to serve uninsured individuals and very small employers. Again, the exchanges drew on the MC idea, with cost-conscious individual choice of plan but only for a small part of the population — not enough to drive most providers into forming and offering high value systems. But the ACA proved to be so complex that neither the Federal Government nor most states could implement the exchanges without major problems. However, it is likely that the problems will be ironed out over the next few years, so millions of people will have accessed health insurance through MC.
Private Exchanges
I feared that the experience of the troubled ACA exchange rollout would give a good idea a bad name. Fortunately, its reputation is being rehabilitated by the entrepreneurial private sector
Extend Health. In 2004, Extend Health, the first national corporate exchange, was started by Bryce Williams, an entrepreneur who heard from some of the largest employers in America that they wanted a more sustainable way to provide coverage for their workers and retirees. They wanted a system based on individual choice and control, defined contributions, and real competition among health plans.
Williams started with an exchange for retirees on Medicare who faced many choices, including outpatient prescription drug plans, Medicare Supplemental plans, and Medicare Advantage plans. He started with the Detroit Automakers' who had legendary retiree medical cost problems, and specifically salaried retirees and defined employer contributions. Certified health insurance counselors in the Extend Health call centers were instructed that the goal was to produce retirees who were happy with their choices, and consequently happy client companies, and not to bias advice or selection in favor of any particular solution or health plan.
Extend Health has been very successful, now serving over 400 employers and over 600,000 Medicare beneficiaries with over 100 Medicare plan carriers. (I served on Bryce's Advisory Board.)
In 2012, Towers Watson, a global human resources consultancy acquired Extend Health. In November 2013, Towers Watson also acquired Liazon, a leader in private benefit exchanges for active employees. As of November 2013, Liazon's online benefit marketplaces were distributed through over 400 insurance brokers, including 9 of the top 10 national firms.
Aon Hewitt. In the fall of 2012, Aon Hewitt, another global human resources consultancy, launched a large multicarrier, multiple-employer private health care exchange for active employees. In the Aon model, all the carriers offer fully insured products that are experience-rated to each employment group. They offer the "four metals" of the ACA, but to facilitate consumer comparisons and choice, contracts are completely standardized within each metal category.
Today, perhaps half of employees with health coverage are in self-insured arrangements. Employers see in self-insurance such advantages as freedom from state regulation of benefits offerings, avoidance of taxes on premiums, and longer retention of cash flow. Aon's employer customers have found that there are significant advantages to letting insurers bear the risk of cost: compared to employers, insurers are better qualified to manage cost, and they innovate to offer less costly products such as selective networks.
In today's typical employer model of one-size-fits all self-insurance, employers or their claims administrators are very reluctant to exclude costly but popular providers because employees liking those providers will be angered. So they can't drive hard bargains. But when the issue is individual choice, and value for the employee's money, the whole relationship changes. Employees willingly choose networks that exclude low value providers if it is their choice and they get to keep the savings.
To encourage carriers to take the enrollment risk premium out of their bids, Aon risk-adjusts the premiums after enrollment so that the carriers attracting the bad risks are compensated. Aon now has 18 participating companies and over 600,000 covered lives. Their client list includes Walgreens, Sears Holdings and Darden Restaurants. A recent report says that, in 2015, AT&T will move its Medicare-eligible retirees to an Aon exchange. These numbers suggest that the scale of this activity can be large enough to have a significant impact on the total market when companies competing with Walgreens, Sears, Darden, and AT&T join the movement.
The insurers being offered on the Aon exchange include Kaiser Permanente, Aetna, Health Net, United Healthcare, and Blue Cross Blue Shield. Their model could accommodate additional leading regional delivery systems if employers requested it for their employees.
Mercer. In 2013, Mercer, another global human resources consultancy, announced plans to offer Mercer Marketplace. Their participating carriers include Aetna, Cigna, Humana, United Healthcare, Health Net, and several Blue Cross and Blue Shield plans. In 2014, they announced that Mercer Marketplace currently works with 67 employers to provide medical benefits to 282,000 covered individuals. Mercer uses standard coverage contracts and does not use "the metals."
Progress and remaining challenges. All told, these corporate exchanges now cover over 1.5 million individuals.
Corporate exchanges offer significant advantages to large multi-site employers. Once individual choice is introduced, carriers can innovate with plans that please some, but not necessarily all employees, plans that could not be offered in the one-size-fits-all model. Individual choice facilitates more selective networks. Employee choices reflect their personal valuations of alternative health plans. Employees are more likely to be satisfied with a plan they have chosen for themselves.
The corporate exchange lets employers outsource management of the relationships with multiple insurance companies, and the approach lets employers convert their support to defined contributions which can be increased at a controlled, sustainable rate. The defined contribution approach gives employees incentives to make economical choices.
One important thing about the private exchanges is that they can be in the economic best interest of all participants. Private corporate exchanges are market-driven. They can display the innovation and flexibility of the private sector, rather than the complex, politically negotiated legislated treaties that constrain the public sector exchanges. The private exchanges can hire the expertise they need when they need it, and are not bound by the complex bureaucratic public sector personnel and procurement regulations.
There are other multi-employer multi-plan private exchanges than the ones I have mentioned here that offer a good approximation to MC, for example California Choice. Not all of them conform to all of the principles I have described for MC, but self-interest and competition will drive them in that direction.
There are potential regulatory issues such as transparency regarding network adequacy, so that consumers understand what they are buying, and conflict of interest when employers seek advice from the global consultancies as to which exchange to hire.
Public policy could accelerate the reform process if the amount of employer contribution to employee health care excluded from employee taxable income were to be capped at the price of an efficient plan in each region. The competitive process could help identify what that is. That would sharpen the incentive for employees to choose efficient plans. And part of the budget savings—which could be large—could be used to allow people who do not have insurance paid by an employer to enjoy the same exclusion, thereby improving fairness, and weakening the link between jobs and health insurance.
As these exchanges roll out, a large problem will remain from the point of view of delivery system reform. Will exchanges open the market for employee health insurance to high-value regional delivery systems and to newly forming accountable care organizations (ACOs)? The FEHBP and CalPERS did just that. And will many new delivery systems form and enter this competitive market? That remains to be seen. As Jon Kingsdale advised me, the even bigger challenge than opening the market to high-value systems is to create the competing delivery systems to cover America.
It is reasonable for the exchanges seeking to serve national employers to start with a few well-known national carriers who can cover the whole country. I hope, but cannot be sure, that the exchanges will open their marketplaces to the many high-value regional integrated delivery systems around the country like Intermountain Health Care, the Geisinger Health System in Pennsylvania, the Dean Clinic in Wisconsin, Group Health Cooperative of Puget Sound, HealthPartners in the Twin Cities, Sharp Health System in San Diego, and many others, all of whom have their own affiliated health insurance plans. They would enhance the attractiveness of their product to employees and employers by doing so. The exchange structure would allow new models of delivery such as Medicare ACOs teaming up with insurers to serve the commercial market and be offered on the exchange. This possibility could strengthen the Medicare ACOs by giving them access to larger populations.
The doctors in many of these delivery systems can be accessed through the national carriers on a fee-for service-basis. But the key point is to allow those delivery systems with their own affiliated health plans to market their superior efficiency through lower premiums. In addition, the national carriers could develop and operate health plans to market the services of systems that do not have their own health plans. Many years ago, there was a Blue Cross-Leahy HMO in MA. In recent years, Blue Shield of California (an independent non-profit) teamed up with Hill Physicians' Medical Group and Dignity Hospitals to offer an ACO plan in Sacramento — for State employees in CalPERS and for City/County employers in San Francisco — with the providers at risk for cost of care.
There are reasons for cautious optimism that the combination of private exchanges described here, and the public exchanges for individuals and small employers created by the ACA, will set in motion a process that will firmly establish MC as the predominant way of buying and selling health insurance and open the market to innovative high-value systems. The last holdout may be Medicare, but it could be transformed by a version of the Breaux-Thomas Domenici-Rivlin Wyden-Ryan proposal. Just as original Medicare copied the private sector with uncoordinated open-ended FFS, at some point in the future, Medicare may again follow the lead of the private sector.


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|Trad, Sport, TR, 1 pitch
|YDS: 5.10c French: 6b Ewbanks: 20 UIAA: VII ZA: 20 British: E2 5b R [details]
|T Montgomery, M Brooks 1986
|Fixed Hardware:
|2 Lead Bolts, 2 Belay Bolts [details]
|Page Views:
|Submitted By:
|Andrew Wellman on Aug 10, 2001
|Comments on Backtalk
|Add Comment
|Show which comments —
By jason seaver
From: Estes Park, CO
Feb 7, 2002
|Although I agree with this pitch's "s" rating, I would not discourage anyone from leading it. The first bolt is in a strange place, but you CAN clip it when you are directly left of it (not above it). The slot above this bolt does NOT accept a #1 camalot, a .75 or something comparable is needed. Great climbing on this pitch, I thought, with some route-finding challenges and exciting climbing. I wonder if the Lost Arrow (driven only half-way in and upward) would hold a fall. The moves past it are not the crux but are certainly thought-provoking.
By Dr. Dan
From: Steamboat Springs, CO
May 6, 2002
|The moves off of the ramp going right are really cool. Use the finger slot jams to position yourself for a clip. It is a more challenging climb than Blackwalk, requiring more precise foot and hand work. I thought the danger level as far as a serious fall was less on this climb than Blackwalk, although the potential for loss of skin and bruising is significant.
By Bill Wright
May 6, 2002
|I've led this climb three times and Blackwalk maybe five times. I find Blackwalk considerably harder and much scarier. I just have lots of trouble at the crux of Blackwalk. This route is much more straight forward for me. It is exciting though as you can't see the marginal fixed pin until you are eye to eye with it. It doesn't look good, but it is the only piece. Fun, exciting climbing. Both of these are good tests for your head.
By Peter Spindloe
From: North Vancouver, BC
Oct 28, 2002
|The smallest size Trango ballnut (blue I think) can be placed just right of the pin. It's about as good a placement as you can get for this piece. The next size up might work too (or perhaps even both).
By Ivan Rezucha
From: Fort Collins, CO
Jan 25, 2003
|There are two good but small brass nuts down and left from the first bolt to protect the first clip. I clipped both from below, long, and then from the left, short, and from the left was much easier. The moves to that point are about 5.8. Above the first bolt I put in two cams under the overlap, a 0.5/purple Camalot and a green Alien. Then I got the #2/gold Camalot in a pocket to the right of the buckets. I felt that was the best placement, and next time I would go with just that. It's runout from the second bolt to the pin, but maybe 5.9 after the first few moves. The pin holds partial body weight. I know because I was getting blown up there and figured it would be safer to gingerly weight the pin rather than risk falling onto it from above. There is a pretty good small brass just left of the pin. Maybe use a screamer. It's angled to the right. A good trick is to run the runner from the nut through the biner on the pin to use the pin as a directional. This will only work if the runner on the pin is below the biner on the nut, else the pin would be weighted first, could pull, and that's the end of the directional.
By Joe Collins
May 12, 2003
|I found this pitch to be much easier, though more sustained, than Blackwalk. It's quite reachy though, and my 5foot3 partner struggled mightily with some of the reaches that I found pretty casual (at 6feet tall). If you're looking for some kind of warm-up in the area, this would probably be the best choice.
By Ivan Rezucha
From: Fort Collins, CO
Feb 26, 2007
|Was the pin replaced? I remember it as rusty and sticking out further. It's now gold colored, if I was seeing straight, and sticking out about an inch less than I remember. Not that that makes it good...
By Shane Zentner
From: Colorado
Jul 22, 2007
|Yes, the pin sticks out half way. I climbed 'Dessert' to get the anchor, due to the fact that the first time I tried Backtalk I had to down climb after I clipped the first bolt, which was, of course, below me. Quite the spicy lead.
By Mr. Stevens
From: Boulder, CO
May 4, 2014
rating: 5.10c 6b 20 VII 20 E2 5b PG13
|I thought this was a great pitch and a damn good lead, albeit spicy. I would not dissuade anyone from leading this if it's in your range - nearly all the gear is bomber, although you do have to climb fairly high above some of it. My gear, in order of placement, was a 0.5 and 0.4 Camalot right next to each other, a #5 RP about 5' below the bolt (pretty bomber actually), above the first bolt was a 0.75 Camalot and green Alien placed right next to each other, and then I backed up the pin with a blue Trango ballnut. The size up from that would probably work well too. Also, I'm pretty short and was able to clip the first bolt just fine from the left!


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World of Darkness
From Project: Redcap
The World of Darkness is a popular game line and game setting published by White Wolf Game Studio. The World of Darkness line includes such games as Vampire: The Requiem (formerly Vampire: The Masquerade) and Mage: The Awakening (formerly Mage: The Ascension).
Relationship of World of Darkness to Ars Magica[edit]
Ars Magica is not related to the World of Darkness. IT'S NOT! NOTNOTNOT!!!
Seriously, though, at one time things were heading toward some kind of connection between the two settings. Back when White Wolf briefly owned Ars Magica, they seemed to be working toward the idea that the World of Darkness grew out of Mythic Europe. This appears to be the meta-game reason for such Third Edition features as "True Reason" and the vampires in House Tremere; note also the inclusion of an Order of Hermes in the World of Darkness game Mage: the Ascension (now Mage: the Awakening). It is worth noting that the seminal World of Darkness game, Vampire:the Masquerade, was largely the brainchild of Mark Rein·Hagen, who, with Jonathan Tweet, co-founded Lion Rampant and was part of the original team creating Ars Magica. When Lion Rampant merged with White Wolf, Ars Magica came along for the ride.
That was a long time ago. Atlas Games now owns Ars Magica, and Atlas has nothing to do with the World of Darkness. White Wolf wrote their own medieval-themed World of Darkness "prequel" setting, so there is no need for Mythic Europe to fill that role. The Fourth Edition of Ars Magica eliminated True Reason, and the Fifth Edition removed vampires from House Tremere.
You can still portray Mythic Europe as eventually turning into the World of Darkness if you want to, but there is no longer anything in the official Ars Magica books suggesting that it will (or won't).
External Links[edit]
- (Old) World of Darkness home page
- Official Old World of Darkness page at the White Wolf Web site. The "Old" world is more connected to Ars Magica than the "New" world.
- Wikipedia article on the World of Darkness