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One of the most interesting things to come out of the recent Chevy Impala launch – aside from the fact that GM thinks it can sell the thing for $40,000 – is that the current, unloved Impala will live on as a fleet-only special called the "Chevrolet Impala Limited." To that, I say: great idea.
I've been a proponent of fleet-only cars ever since the 1997-2003 Chevrolet Malibu was rebranded the Chevrolet Classic, a name which would've been appropriate when it debuted. In fact, I think there should be even more fleet-only cars – an idea that's unpopular in the automotive industry, but highly praised between my ears. Allow me to explain.
The Fleet-Only Car World
Today, GM is the lone brand in the fleet-only game. In addition to the new Impala Limited, they have three other models:
1. The Chevrolet Caprice, which is only sold to police departments, who flip it on eBay to guys who inexplicably can't wait for the SS.
2. The Chevrolet Captiva Sport, which – despite bring a rebadged Saturn Vue from five years ago – is still better than virtually every current car-based Jeep.
3. The Chevrolet Malibu Classic. Yes, the "Classic" name lives on in the form of last year's Malibu, which can be sold to rental car companies instead of today's Malibu so that renters can transport rear passengers with legs.
While GM is the sole brand offering fleet-only models today, that hasn't historically been the case. As everyone on TTAC knows, the Ford Crown Victoria was fleet-only for its final few years on the market. And the entire Chrysler Corporation was fleet-only from about 2003 until December of last year.
Advantages of Fleet-Only
The most obvious benefit of fleet-only models is that you don't torpedo the resale value of the rest of your lineup. Here's an example: last year, GM sold 37,000 Captiva Sports, each of which will eventually be available at your neighborhood CarMax. They also sold around 218,000 Equinox units. Some of those may have even been sold outside of Detroit. Southfield, for example.
If GM didn't have the Captiva Sport, the Equinox number would've jumped to somewhere around 255,000. That's way too many units. The ensuing used-market flood would've plunged resale values, which in turn would plunge new-car values. Economists refer to this as The Chrysler Effect.
Chevrolet would then have two choices: boost sales by lowering credit standards and adding incentives, or redesign the thing. And I think we all know which one they'd pick.
But with the Captiva Sport, the Equinox can stay in relative balance with supply and demand. Which, in GM terms, means two grand cash back or zero percent interest for 48 months.
The other benefit of fleet-only sales is, quite simply, keeping the factories running. We all know the automakers have to sign long-term, high-volume deals with the unions, or else the world risks a strike and the very real possibility that we may have to go a few weeks without the Chevrolet Sonic. Even if GM makes no money on all those Captiva Sports, it's better than losing money by idling the plants and paying the workers anyway. Economists call that The Mitsubishi Effect.
Disadvantages of Fleet-Only
Of course, fleet-only sales do have one massive disadvantage.
Let's say you're John Smith and your personal car is a Camry. You're landing at the Des Moines International Airport, so named because occasionally a flight from Toronto to Los Angeles makes an emergency landing there. (Actually, there is one single non-stop flight from Des Moines to Cancun, which is essential to the airport because otherwise they'd have to change all the signs.)
You show up at the Enterprise counter to claim your rental car and the perky woman behind the counter informs you that you'll be driving a Chevrolet Impala with the same tone she'd use to announce that you've been bumped to first class, or that you've won a year's supply of dish soap.
You walk out to your car, which turns out to be an Impala Limited. You throw your bags in. And nine miles later you decide that you never, ever, under any circumstances ever want to come into contact with any Chevrolet product ever again. You silently pat yourself on the back for buying a Camry.
This could be a slight problem for a brand that's trying to add new buyers.
The Solution
As with most things in life, the key is moderation. Fleet-only cars are a great idea, but only if they're not terrible. While it makes for easy jokes, the Captiva Sport is the perfect execution of a fleet-only car: it's not so bad to look at, it's not so bad to sit in, and it's not so bad to drive. And it doesn't harm Chevy's reputation, since the average person hasn't even heard of it until they go to CarMax, where they're parked three-deep on every horizontal surface.
The Impala Limited, however, is the exact opposite, so I hope it doesn't last long. There are a lot of John Smiths in this world, and they're buying Camrys every day.
Doug DeMuro operates PlaysWithCars.com. He's owned an E63 AMG wagon, road-tripped across the US in a Lotus without air conditioning, and posted a six-minute lap time on the Circuit de Monaco in a rented Ford Fiesta. One year after becoming Porsche Cars North America's youngest manager, he quit to become a writer. His parents are very disappointed.
Tagged as Chevrolet, doug demuro, fleet, Fleet Sales, GM
117 Comments on "Fleet-Only Cars: A Great Idea..."
FreedMikeMarch 19th, 2013 at 12:01 pm
"You walk out to your car, which turns out to be an Impala Limited. You throw your bags in. And nine miles later you decide that you never, ever, under any circumstances ever want to come into contact with any Chevrolet product ever again. You silently pat yourself on the back for buying a Camry.
This could be a slight problem for a brand that's trying to add new buyers."
You're a silly sort who has memorized the last ten comparos done by Consumer Reports, and have concluded that any car not called "Camry" (or built by a Japanese company) is a unreliable, flaming deathtrap that drives like an out-of-tune Model T. So, when the perky lady at the rental counter gives you the keys to an Impala, your balls immediately clench up in you, like they would if you were standing on the ledge of a 110-story building looking straight down into the abyss.
Dear Lord, save me from Chevrolet!
Then you look at the car. You notice it's no more generic than your beloved Camry. You open the door, get in, and find it's actually decent inside. You start the thing up, and find it's no BMW, but neither is your Camry.
A mind-blowing thought races across your brain: MAYBE CHEVYS AREN'T SO BAD.
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28-Cars-LaterMarch 19th, 2013 at 12:10 pm
You both have good points, albeit it opposite ones.
Camcord people in my experience tend to thumb their nose at anything that isn't a Camcord, I think some would find fault with almost anything else be it Yugo or Bentley.
2012+ W is alot of things but it comes with a set of balls standard, how many Camcord owners still have theirs?
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TEXN3March 19th, 2013 at 1:28 pm
I still do. The Accord is what my wife wanted. See, we drove several cars, looked at the deals we could get and she liked the Accord best (she only had old RWD Volvos prior). She is happy and thus, my balls are happy. There is more to life than hitting the gas from a stoplight to almost rearending the car in front.
As for me, I drive one of three Cannondales everyday and a Craftsman on Saturdays, balls safely intact while doing so. And they're made in the USA like the Honda.
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28-Cars-LaterMarch 19th, 2013 at 1:59 pm
"She is happy and thus, my balls are happy"
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QuentinMarch 19th, 2013 at 2:08 pm
Another Cannondale man! I just picked up a Scalpel 29er Carbon 1. Where can I buy more time to ride?
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TEXN3March 19th, 2013 at 5:17 pm
I've been riding at lunch. Scalpel is a nice bike! 5 minutes from the office to the foothills, grab a couple $1 tacos on the way back and I'm happy. I've got a 92 T700, 04 F400, and last year picked up a year old Scalpel 29er (last C-Dale made in USA).
golden2huskyMarch 19th, 2013 at 8:04 pm
…..Camcord people in my experience tend to thumb their nose at anything that isn't a Camcord, I think some would find fault with almost anything else be it Yugo or Bentley. ….
This is absolute truth. Very few people can put preconceived notions aside and honestly assess something, especially when their emotions get amped up. The reality is that most Camcorders feel that there is no substitute and they defend their position with stories of failed X cars…
Like the reference to the Des Moines International Airport. One of my early projects in my career, I designed the electrical system and lighting for the twin parking structures. The people I met in IA during the construction were really nice, with the exception of the architect on the job…Midwestern folks are very friendly.
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WildcatMattApril 16th, 2013 at 1:58 pm
Having family in west central IA, I've flown in and out of DSM more than a time or two, and I've always thought that parking lot was well-lit.
Thank you!
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30-mile fetchMarch 19th, 2013 at 1:53 pm
Umm, no. I've driven the new Camry. Particularly in the SE trim that makes up nearly half of what I see on the road, it drives far better than an Impala. Better front seats. Roomier backseat. Better steering. Better body control. It's the only Camry I've been in that didn't make me feel like I should be drawing Social Security. Like an Impala.
If you want people to think Chevy's aren't so bad, the outdated, bygone era fleet-only Impala is the absolute wrong place to start. Point them to a Cruze. Considering how well that is selling, it seems many would agree. The oversized poorly-packaged soft boulevard cruiser is a niche market.
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krhodes1March 19th, 2013 at 2:31 pm
As a frequent renter, I would rather have just about anything over an Impala. They are just AWFUL cars. I don't care if they are fast in a straight line. A Cruze is simply a far better car – I would actually consider owning a Cruze, I wouldn't take an Impala for FREE.
I'll also take just about anything over a Craptiva too, for that matter. How can something so slow suck so much gas? Though at least Hertz' Craptivas all have seem to have XM radio, so they have one redeeming virtue.
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Kyree S. WilliamsMarch 19th, 2013 at 10:18 pm
I recently had two Cruze rentals, both 2012 LT models (one white, one gold) with black leather interiors and the larger rims. They were comfortable, spacious, good-looking and efficient, and I was sorry to see them go. I'm seriously considering one now…but of course I'll take due dilligence and test-drive the other cars in the segment.
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KinoshMarch 19th, 2013 at 10:50 pm
I never understood the hate for the Impala.
It's a smooth, powerful V6 mated to a six speed. It gives you 30mpg at cruise while eating up every pavement disturbance. Its seats are built like recliners. It has a massive trunk. The rear seats do leave something to be desired, especially for how big the car is.
The biggest reason; it costs the same as a Camcord. 50% depreciation after 3 years, so you can pick one up cheap. Parts (and spare engines) galore, so it costs nothing to maintain.
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krhodes1March 19th, 2013 at 11:46 pm
Some of us actually like to DRIVE. The Impala, at best, is a rolling sofa. A sofa with really nasty upholstery sitting in front of a 19″ black and white TV with no cable. A fast sofa is not an improvement. I find the seats torturously uncomfortable. And the only way you will get 30mpg out of an Impala in the real world is drafting a semi downhill.
Scout_Number_4March 19th, 2013 at 11:51 pm
+1 Don't hate the Impala, just don't buy it new. I'm a sales guy with a company car. I've had four Impalas (2002, 2004, 2010, 2012…there was a 2008 Charger in there). My latest one is clearly the best of the bunch. When I throw it back around January of 2015, it will have 85000 easy miles on the clock with regular maintenance. Someone will buy it at an auction for less than low-book and have an excellent car for another 50-100K miles.
Power6March 19th, 2013 at 11:58 pm
I actually find them pretty good to drive, the latest ones with the 3.6 being the best, a pretty nice ride/handling balance, they finally got it by the time they send them all to rental fleets ha. Its as good as a big FWD sedan with a slushbox can be, which is not too bad.
Seat was ok for me but we all differ.
Yeah 30 MPG is if you reset the trip computer at the speed limit on the highway (this is how 'Vette drivers measure their 35MPG highway), not for those silly people who measure the MPG of actually going places.
30-mile fetchMarch 20th, 2013 at 1:21 am
"50% depreciation after 3 years, so you can pick one up cheap"
"Don't hate the Impala, just don't buy it new"
If the car is only appealing when it costs half of MSRP, it probably isn't a great car. The biggest selling point is the steep depreciation and resulting killer deal as a lightly used car? Yeah, about time GM put it out to pasture, then.
Power6March 20th, 2013 at 1:33 am
Doesn't everything have its price? do you want a Camry LE at 40k? Is it a bad product because you can have one for 25k?
The problem is GM has a pie-in-the-sky MSRP for the Impala, but the actual transaction prices to the fleets, and then to the next owner are much lower. So the argument is to compare it at what you actually pay for it, and this is where the Impala starts to make sense.
It would be great if GM would come out and say "here we will sell you a last gen Impala for 18k loaded, 3.6 with 6-speed and all". probably not going to happen that way for many reasons though!
Many consumers want the latest tech and 8″ LCD screens and streaming Pandora over Bluetooth with apps and cooled cupholders and heated rear seats and stitched dashes with cool colors…its nice that the Impala is available for those who don't want that, this is a practice in many other markets to sell outdated stuff cheap, but doesn't really seem to fly in the US.
ufomikeMarch 21st, 2013 at 10:08 pm
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28-Cars-LaterMarch 19th, 2013 at 12:01 pm
Home run Doug, I think you've shed light on a subject hotly debated for the past few months in the B&B.
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jz78817March 19th, 2013 at 12:03 pm
"And the entire Chrysler Corporation was fleet-only from about 2003 until December of last year."
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ConslawMarch 19th, 2013 at 12:26 pm
I disagree. The Impala limited is an excellent vehicle for the rental counter. the reason: the old Impala has 18.6 cu-ft. of trunk space, better than all the other vehicles that are available for the same price. (The new Impala supposedly has 18.8 cu-ft of trunk space, but I think the battery impacts this in the 4-cylinder model.)
Last year, my family of 4 took a vacation. Our luggage fit in the trunk of the Impala, but would not fit in the Camry, Fusion, Altima or Maxima. There was supposedly a Captiva available but it was "missing". One of their gold club members had reserved the Impala, so we had to wait around for a Mazda-5. The luggage fit in the Mazda 5 but wasn't covered.
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Jeff WeimerMarch 19th, 2013 at 12:32 pm
"You walk out to your car, which turns out to be an Impala Limited. You throw your bags in. And nine miles later you decide that you never, ever, under any circumstances ever want to come into contact with any Chevrolet product ever again. You silently pat yourself on the back for buying a Camry."
Economists call that the "GM effect".
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cargoghMarch 19th, 2013 at 12:32 pm
Your stories give me the same laughs Dave Berg's did when I was very young. I love funny and true.
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APaGttHMarch 19th, 2013 at 12:34 pm
FWIW – Ford breaks out, sells, brands and lists its police duty Taurus as something like Police Interceptor Special. They even break it out on their sales charts separately from the Taurus – and it is sold only to police departments.
I also know Toyota has the Camry L, which is supposed to be the stripper rental sled fleet only car – but I don't know how many L's are sold to average slobs through the dealer network.
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redavMarch 19th, 2013 at 3:46 pm
The same is true of many lowest trim models. I believe the Fusion S & Focus S are only sold to rental fleets because no one spending their own money would have them.
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chicagolandMarch 19th, 2013 at 8:46 pm
No, Ford S models are available. They are for "bait and switch" sales. Usually one on the lot, but many upsells occur.
And rental firm buy mid level trims, they want resale too. Customers want power windows in rentals.
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Bunter1March 19th, 2013 at 12:37 pm
If they have dedicated vehicles for fleet what will GM do with the excess production of the mediocre offering the public rejects when they are offered to them.
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APaGttHMarch 19th, 2013 at 12:41 pm
I have a nit…
…The other benefit of fleet-only sales is, quite simply, keeping the factories running. We all know the automakers have to sign long-term, high-volume deals with the unions, or else the world risks a strike and the very real possibility that we may have to go a few weeks without the Chevrolet Sonic. Even if GM makes no money on all those Captiva Sports, it's better than losing money by idling the plants and paying the workers anyway…
In modern manufacturing it costs more money to run a factory at say 85% capacity than it does at 100% capacity. Capacity utilization has a significant impact on the bottom line. There are examples of it everywhere.
Food companies will run production lines at 100%, even if they are selling say 90% of the product. The other 10% of the product ends up at places like Dollar General or Grocery Outlet. There is nothing "wrong" with the product. It's not near expired, a second, or any less than the 90% that went to Kroger. Kroger can't stock it anymore, and it will cost more money to run the factory at just 90% capacity than it is to take a bath on the 10% they distribute to other channels.
It isn't just union contracts – and lets remember – during the Great Recession when Toyota idled thousands of workers in the United States Toyota paid them – in full – out of the kindless of the bottom of their hearts (contract workers were shown the door).
There are other reasons a factory is better run at capacity than the union says so (but the union says so is one reason of several)
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HeeeeyJakeMarch 20th, 2013 at 3:49 am
I take issue with your entire comment. There are some elements of truth in what you say, but they are based on efficiencies in a manufacturing vacuum. Finance plays a huge role in expenditures, and in supply chain management. And there is definitely an economics angle you are ignoring, which is based on holistic efficiency.
Every supply chain management specialist, as well as mfg. co. executive on the planet, will tell you the capacity is optimized at ~88%. This optimized capacity utilization allows for demand fluctuation upwards (not leaving revenue "on the table" if product is in high demand) and downwards (if the product sells below projections). It is ALWAYS cheaper to oversupply workforce and adjust shift (i.e. labor supply) than it is to expect to run a factory at 100% and "eff" yourself if you sell more, or oversupply labor if the product is a bomb. A new auto factory, with tooling, is between $500 million and $1 billion. Don't kid yourself if you think leaving a 10-15% buffer (running at 85-90% capacity) isn't optimized from a financial standpoint.
A person is either crazy or uneducated in OPTIMIZED MFG LABOR SUPPLY if they think plants run efficiently at 100% from a product planning or amortization standpoint. Risk management in an uncertain market is the BIGGEST factor in marketing projections and labor supply projections.
And, Toyota paying full wages during a shutdown is way cheaper than laying off, especially in a non union environment. It is always cheaper to keep a good existing employee happy than to rehire new ones. Don't piss off your labor force, and they will love you. It's not charity, as you describe, to pay full wages to idled-plant employees (non-union), it's smart.
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Land ArkMarch 19th, 2013 at 12:43 pm
I actually laughed out loud several times reading this. Well done.
Fun fact: trying to explain to people who don't care about cars why you're laughing will make them want to spend less time with you.
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thelaineMarch 19th, 2013 at 1:30 pm
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DC BruceMarch 19th, 2013 at 12:54 pm
This has been done before. Google "Checker Marathon"!
On a more serious note, I've always wondered about the strategy involved in selling to car rental agencies. Obviously, one goal would be to dump a lot of product on the market, even at a very small profit.
But another goal might be to take advantage of the opportunity to introduce someone to your car, so that he/she might keep you in mind when it's time to replace his/her personal vehicle. For instance, my wife and I spent a week with a Ford Mustang convertible. On the plus side, the V-6 engine/automatic drivetrain was lovely, both powerful and fuel efficient. On the negative side, the non-adjustable passenger seat made my wife feel like she was sitting in a tub and the interior was a little too cheaped-out for both of us. Give the car a nicer interior and, yeah, we'd think about it.
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philadljMarch 19th, 2013 at 1:07 pm
I agree with the old Impala going on (as I'm sure JB does!) but it's strange how they're going to call it the "Limited" as opposed to "Impala Classic." Maybe a subtle dig at the blue oval, re-purposing one of their highest trim levels (Limited) for a rental-only model?
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tresmonosMarch 19th, 2013 at 2:37 pm
I'm glad somebody else caught it. I had to laugh when I heard they were calling one of the highest produced modern vehicle platforms the 'Limited.' Gut punch for Ford's marketing department.
GM still makes the Malibu. No amount of punches can get them out of that fight with themselves.
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dtremitMarch 19th, 2013 at 3:00 pm
"Limited" has a lot longer history with GM than with Ford — particularly with Buick. The Ford LTD was called the LTD because GM already owned the Limited trademark.
Ford has been dropping the "Limited" trim in favor of "Titanium" anyway. Only the Taurus still has a Limited trim, and I'd wager that'll go away on the next refresh.
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bball40dtwMarch 19th, 2013 at 4:05 pm
All the D-Platform vehicles have the Limited trim (Flex, Taurus, Explorer). The Edge does too. They actually took the Titanium trim away from the Flex and made it a package within the Limited or SEL. They also dropped the SEL trim for the Focus, Fiesta, and Fusion.
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George HerbertMarch 19th, 2013 at 1:07 pm
A couple of years ago, I had the Impala Rental experience.
Sadly, that is exactly the impression I got. Sure, it was a rental, out of Burbank airport, but it wouldn't drive straight on the freeway, much less any curves between Burbank and Thousand Oaks.
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ZackmanMarch 19th, 2013 at 3:48 pm
I have rented Impalas for 7 years, most recently from Enterprise/LAX, and I hear stories like yours, but have NEVER experienced any of what you and some others have said. Ours drove extremely well up to Santa Barbara and vicinity, plus negotiating SoCal's freeways just fine.
Some years ago, I took a rental Impala up to the Lick Observatory and back on CA 130 without a hitch. Ask Alex Dykes what that road is like!
If the car felt like it was riding dangerous, my wife would have noticed something odd and let me know it, but she enjoyed the ride as much as I.
I make it a point to rent Impalas, because they are comfortable.
Sometimes, I think you guys make this stuff up just to trash GM…
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BrunsworksMarch 19th, 2013 at 4:03 pm
Hey, c'mon. He could have just had one with a bad alignment job–or one recently driven by P.J. O'Rourke.
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mikeyMarch 19th, 2013 at 4:11 pm
@zackman…I think it was "freedmike" in one of the first comments that pretty well summed it up quite well.
Some of these folks, including the author are so blinded by thier GM hate, they have lost thier objectivity.
The current Impala has been around for years and thousands of folks have bought them new, and used. Many people like yourself have had nothing but positive things to say about the Impala.
Yes,the old Impala has reached the end of its run. The new one however,has had some very positive reviews{not here}
Zackman..enjoy your 300hp Impala, let the rest rave about thier wonderfull Asian vehicles,we know better eh!
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Power6March 19th, 2013 at 11:11 pm
Maybe you are blinded by your GM love? Glass houses, throwing stones…
The article is hardly GM biased, maybe you need to sit in some more modern vehicles, the "old" Impala is a sea of black plastic with mold lines, trimmed with the fakest of wood grain printed shiny plastic and cheap leather, with a lackluster "Bose" sound system and very sparse tech, compared to any competitor in its class. GM asks a laughable 30k+ for this "loaded" LTZ Impala. If you can't see any of that, maybe you need to get out a bit more, take the old blinders off?
A great point was made about this, the casual renter might be turned off or simply re-inforce their feelings about GM cars, however wrong they might be. Preception is reality, GM marketing should be on this.
Now I've rented a bunch of these, the Impala is great, nice ride and handling, the 3.6 drivetrain is stellar. Actual transaction prices, especially slightly used, make this some sort of deal, can't get a Camry for this money.
Now I am a GM lover from way back, but I'm not friggin blind either.
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George HerbertMarch 19th, 2013 at 5:19 pm
I don't personally mind GM as a whole. The last new car we bought in the family was a GM product, and it ran respectably for its about 165k lifespan before it was broadsided. When it was broadsided my wife suffered no injuries. The passive and active measures worked just fine.
That particular Impala, that day out of Burbank? On 129 without any traffic around I let go of the wheel to see how bad the alignment was, and was drifting out of the #2 lane a second later. No more of that. I was stuck with it for the week, and found a number of other deficiencies.
I can believe that the alignment was the result of a prior renter, and not the way it shipped from the factory. The rest of the deficiencies were more inherent. It doesn't help that it's inherently the antithesis of what I want in a car, but even for what it was, I was not happy.
I don't generalize to the entire company; I'd love to go test drive and report on an ATS or new Vette, or any number of their other less sporty products. Even the new Impala, just to get a feeling for what they have changed.
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corntrollioMarch 19th, 2013 at 5:28 pm
"I can believe that the alignment was the result of a prior renter, and not the way it shipped from the factory."
You've seen the state of Southern California roads, right? I'd definitely assume it was another renter or SoCal roads before I assumed it was the car itself.
Bay Area roads aren't much better, for that matter.
"On 129"
Did you mean CA-134 — on the Ventura Freeway?
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George HerbertMarch 19th, 2013 at 7:52 pm
My bad on the freeway number. I had to check the map – I could drive the route still by memory, but haven't been working down there at all for 2+ years now, so I am not remembering the road designations clearly.
I was headed towards Thousand Oaks and took I-5 north from Burbank Airport to 118, west to 23, south to 101, and a few miles more west to where I stayed along 101. I tried the steering on 118, after the 405 interchange, probably in Granada Hills.
There are plenty of crappy roads in California; my RX-8 on 880 northbound from 101 to 237 right now fondly resembles a bucking bronco (cough). Enough so that I avoid having cars to either side, some of the ruts from the repaving have knocked me out of the lane. And there's the complete crap of I-5 southbound from the Grapevine for nearly 10 miles south of there…
I've never had any of my personal cars knocked out of alignment by the roads, as bad as they've gotten.
I can believe previous driver hit a curb or whatnot. I'll never know, for sure. As I said, the alignment put me off the car, but the other … features … made me not want to consider that model in the future. The new gen ones, I haven't had a chance to drive yet.
DynastyMarch 19th, 2013 at 6:36 pm
"Sometimes, I think you guys make this stuff up just to trash GM…"
I agree. We have an Impala for our work vehicle, and the car is so comfortable. And it is solid feeling too. Definitely not a corner carver… but it is relatively quick, quiet, comfortable, and fuel efficient.
And BIG.
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econobikerMarch 19th, 2013 at 6:01 pm
A GM Impala rental within the last 9 months. Some of the black interior plastic was the almost the same pattern/grain as used on heavy truck plastic quarter fenders and probably the same material. It was like the poly and grain pattern used on plastic shipping tubs for custom fit items.
Reallly cheap-o feeling and looking…
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CJinSDMarch 19th, 2013 at 1:08 pm
Here in coastal San Diego, the domestics all seem to be fleet only. They sell trucks, but any new cars inevitably are rentals. GM offering rental fleets cars that are even less contemporary than their best efforts is great, if you're Toyota, Honda or Nissan. Every contact I've had with a GM rental car has made me grateful that I don't have to drive a GM car on a daily basis, and I haven't had one of their fleet specials yet. I was issued a 2011 Enterprise Camry, and it changed my position in the Camry debates. I know people like them because they're reliable, but it was also the best driving rental car I've ever been issued going away. I haven't been able to take Camry critics seriously since.
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jmoMarch 19th, 2013 at 1:35 pm
Got an ATS this week from Enterprise, it's AMAZING! I'm certain it would change your impression of GM as much as your rental Camry changed your mind about Camrys.
Athough, I will note that the Enterprise spec ATS I got was the 2.0t.
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LampredottoMarch 19th, 2013 at 5:08 pm
Yeah, I drove an ATS recently. Other than the gauge cluster, which looks like it was repurposed from a '96 Grand Prix, it's a great car.
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30-mile fetchMarch 19th, 2013 at 2:13 pm
The 2013 Camry 2.5 SE I drove also changed my opinion of Camrys. Drivetrain and seats were fantastic, steering had no feel but was very precise and responsive, very little body lean and no slop.
Similarly, the Kia Optima I drove right afterwards changed my opinion of that car: I wouldn't consider one anymore. Terrible, squishy, unsupportive front seats, numb steering made artificially heavy to create the illusion of sportiness, too-high beltline. It may be wrapped in beautiful sheet metal, but it drives nothing like it looks.
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Bunter1March 19th, 2013 at 3:44 pm
Funny, that is similar to my impression of my Sienna LE. Not much on feel (not as bad as expected and I drove a Miata for 15 years), but stays relativly flat and is responsive to imput without being twitchy. Seats are far better than my buddies Escalade-flat and hard, mine are all day comfy. Ride is far better also though that may be a truck thing. The turning circle still impresses too, one manuverable big box.
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APaGttHMarch 19th, 2013 at 6:27 pm
For whatever its worth, I had a 2008 Camry stripper rental that I drove from Sacramento to LA. One of the worst rental cars of my life (number two, sandwiched between the Ford Taurus circa 2008 and a Buick Lucerne circa 2007 – sorry can't cry foreign bias when two of the three on my worst rental list are domestic).
I thought I was going to die from the fumes of the out gassing cheap plastic. It wandered all over the road, the steering was like out of a 1972 Oldsmobile. Climbing over the mountains to get into the LA Basin the engine screamed, squalled, whined, and moaned. Standing on the gas pedal produced a symphony of sound and fury that translated into no more forward momentum on the incline.
I was utterly, totally, completely, unimpressed. My sister's 1997 Camry with 180K miles on it is put together better, with better materials, and rode better (although her rotors are warped TO HELL).
I have avoided Impala's like the plague – and recently got one of the 2012 versions because I wanted to see how much the 6-speed auto, 302 HP 3.6L V6, and other tweaks improved the car. What I had read was true. I would never buy one, it is a sled with a woefully outdated interior. But it was a comfortable, nice to drive on the Michigan roads, soaked up the bumps and lots of power sled.
The Ford Taurus (circa 2008) I had was so bad that I located the nearest Avis and swapped it out. Between the useless headlights, the wandering steering, and a seat that offered about as much support as a milk crate and the misbehaving Sync system (only car I ever had a problem with straight Sync) I was done.
The Buick Lucerne was hobbled with the 3.8L V6 at just 197 HP to drag around its heft. It was equipped, not stripped, but was still a sled. An under powered, floating, God awful sled.
I also struck the Kia Optima off of my list after my rental experience. Very similar experience to you. A so-so interior, uncomfortable seat that I couldn't find a good driving position in, and it just seemed to lack refinement. It is a beautiful car on the outside – but it has issues.
I can't even get a Cruze at the rental counter – I'm told people are asking for them and they just aren't ever available. I had a Captiva and I hated it; would probably put it at number four on my list of the worst and I guess I'm in the minoirty. I had an '08 Malibu LTZ and I was very impressed, as was my coworkers. I had another one in '11 and boy the Malibu did not age well. Also had a 2012 Ford Mustang convertible and I was completely underwhelmed.
Getting picky in my old age I guess.
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ajlaMarch 19th, 2013 at 7:08 pm
"The Buick Lucerne was hobbled with the 3.8L V6 at just 197 HP to drag around its heft"
I'm not in a hurry.
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tresmonosMarch 19th, 2013 at 2:41 pm
What? You need to test more mid-sized vehicles. I think the Altima bests it and that says a lot.
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CJinSDMarch 19th, 2013 at 2:53 pm
I haven't driven the 2013 Altima, or the 2013 Camry for that matter. I did drive two 2011 or 2012 Altimas though, and I didn't care for the experiences. They seemed heavy handed in terms of interior and exterior design, and their transmissions didn't suit my driving style. That's giving them the benefit of the doubt too. I recall thinking that they were what Pontiac would be building had they survived, and that isn't a compliment based on the many Pontiac rental cars I've served time in.
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tresmonosMarch 19th, 2013 at 3:06 pm
Try out the latest mid-sizers. Driving dynamics are improved.
I used the Altima as a low water mark. Just about everything is better in 13, I wasn't impressed with the 11 Camry except for the styling. For some reason, I really liked the lines of the 11MY.
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golden2huskyMarch 19th, 2013 at 8:23 pm
The previous generation Altima is no low water mark…not by a long shot…though the CVT is not my cup of tea. Had the Pontiac G6 been as good as an Altima, Pontiac would likely still exist….
tresmonosMarch 20th, 2013 at 1:53 am
Same thing as a Malibu. I'm not counting cheap interior, just driving. It all is subjective to the individual, anyway. I was merely trying to suggest CJinSD get in a few other models to test them out.
mikeyMarch 19th, 2013 at 2:54 pm
You know whats so cool about the Altima? For me its the blue smoke that comes out of the exhaust on acceleration. Not being familiar with that "superior Japanese enginering" we hear so much about. Is the blue smoke an option, or does it come as standard equipment?
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tresmonosMarch 19th, 2013 at 3:09 pm
FWIW, I have really enjoyed each new Mazda I've driven. After almost a year in Mexico, my opinion is that Nissan is the new economical global mass producer. Doug's article today really drove that point home.
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mik101March 19th, 2013 at 8:28 pm
Trolls gonna troll… I can see a half a dozen less than 10 year old Altimas from where I sit right now. In fact, the 09 Coupe I can see from here has a turbo kit that I assembled 3 years ago for my roommate and requires no oil between changes. That one is around 125,000km now.
Disclaimer: There isn't a VQ among the bunch.
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mikeyMarch 19th, 2013 at 8:40 pm
@mik101…Trolling? Not me dude. I wasn't sure if this post was a GM hate piece,or Japanese love fest.
Comment after comment beating up, what I consider a well made durable car.
So I throw in a little Altima fact,and all of a sudden I'm a troll.
Power6March 19th, 2013 at 11:30 pm
It is a durable well made car, I don't think anyone has said it was not?
It also has a cheap rubbermaid interior and I think most objections start there.
I had a Mazda 6 rental last week that was a bit nicer than an Impala interior. My coworker had a Charger and that thing is leaps and bounds beyond either, the Pentastar with 8-speed rocks and the totally stripped rental only model has nice tech, car drives great, nice looking interior. I don't know the prices, but the base Charger is around 30k right? GM thinks you should pay the same for the Impala. And it still has just a auto-down drivers window, like a 92 Beretta!
What have you rented lately??
SherbornSeanMarch 19th, 2013 at 11:13 pm
The blue smoke means the cardinals are getting stoned.
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krhodes1March 19th, 2013 at 2:48 pm
If a 2011 Camry was the best driving rental vehicle you have ever driven, you need to get out more. They drive like Buicks used to drive. I would think a Honda fanatic like you would appreciate a bit more verve. And yes, I have driven multiple rented examples of every year Camry since 1996 when I started travelling for a living. Including the Hybrids and the V6. All steaming piles of reliable meh.
My rental car surprise and delight winners:
FIAT 500 – I BOUGHT one with my own money!
Toyota RAV4
Cadillac CTS and STS
Chevy Cruze
Buick Lacrosse
Ford CMax
VW Passat (North American de-contented cheapo version)
VW Jetta (ditto)
Ford Flex
My rental car biggest losers:
Chevy Impala
Chevy Craptiva
Ford Panther anything
Toyota Camry
Toyota Corolla
Nissan Maxima
Chrysler 200
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30-mile fetchMarch 19th, 2013 at 3:29 pm
The current SE drives nothing like the wallowing rental LEs of several years ago. I've driven a family member's 2010 and struggle to find anything kind to say. But I actually enjoyed the 2013. Felt more like a Honda with road noise suppression than a Toyota.
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mike978March 19th, 2013 at 8:56 pm
The Camry is still no Accord, Fusion or 6 when it comes to driving dynamics.
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30-mile fetchMarch 20th, 2013 at 1:28 am
Never said it was. Said it was surprisingly good and far better than antecedent marshmallow Camrys.
Not sure the Accord belongs in the same dynamics category as the Fusion and 6.
MarkoMarch 19th, 2013 at 11:32 pm
What's so bad about the Maxima? Just curious.
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krhodes1March 19th, 2013 at 11:50 pm
What's wrong with the Maxima? It is huge on the outside but small on the inside. The interior materials are the same as the much cheaper Altima, and they are cheap and nasty in THAT car. The chassis is utterly floppy and the car has WAY more power than it can effectively control. The engine sounds like a bag of hammers in a dryer. It has a CVT. I could keep going…
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dtremitMarch 20th, 2013 at 1:51 am
In one (brand new) Maxima I rented last year, the sunroof squeaked every time you went over a bump. Not making that up.
bunkieMarch 20th, 2013 at 2:05 pm
It's a bloody shame what Nissan has done to the Maxima. I had four of them starting with an '89 SE 5-speed which was a brilliant car for the time, reasonably quick, nicely buttoned down and well screwed together. Three more SEs followed, a 93, a 95 and a 97 (all 2-year leases) and each was somewhat less than the prior car. By the time the post-2000 redesign came around (with the end of the 5-speed), it was clear that the Maxima was dead to me.
28-Cars-LaterMarch 20th, 2013 at 2:13 pm
Your experiences reflect those of a friend of mine, whose 2000 Maxima 5-spd V6 finally died with 197 on the clock and he replaced it with an Altima. The cars are night and day.
krhodes1March 20th, 2013 at 2:50 pm
A crying shame indeed. A friend still has the '96 that he bought new. v6, 5spd, a fine car then and now. The current one has no redeeming virtues, and is rendered utterly redundant by the existence of the V6 Altima on the cheaper side and the Infinity whatever-they-are-calling-it-now on the slightly more expensive side.
QuentinMarch 19th, 2013 at 1:10 pm
My rental experience in.a Captiva was "no USB to charge my phone? the power port isn't working, either? GM is still on my do not buy list"
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tresmonosMarch 19th, 2013 at 3:20 pm
The pitfalls of a fleet only model is the lack of visibility on assembly / supplier quality / design issues. Without feedback from dealers or customers, robustness and quality improvements can get left behind. Warranty work is still completed, but visibility (concerns / survey data) is not present and the probability of the issue being identified is minimized by complacency.
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APaGttHMarch 19th, 2013 at 9:51 pm
It was buried in the armrest (the USB port). I had to dig all around to find the damn thing. I thought it was an utterly stupid location – complete unintuitive.
And for the record – I have the Capitva at number four on my worst rental car list.
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dtremitMarch 20th, 2013 at 1:55 am
It might not be obvious, but it's incredibly common — and functional, since you can route the cable out the front of the armrest and have the phone on the seat or console without a wire getting tangled up in the gear lever.
I'm not going to swear by specific models, but Ford, Toyota, and GM use that location pretty frequently.
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nikitaMarch 19th, 2013 at 1:34 pm
The 1987 Chevy Corsica was a fleet-only special. National stuck me with them and that may have contributed to buying a Ford in 1988.
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jhefnerMarch 19th, 2013 at 1:35 pm
Seriously; this could also be combined with Derek Kreindler's idea for a "Luddite" version; though sales may actually take off; especially if the price is right.
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March 19th, 2013 at 1:53 pm
I like the Captiva. I've always thought that the Saturn was one of the best looking "Equinox" derivatives so it's nice that they kept it. I own the Pontiac version and while I like the way GM worked to make it look unique from the front it's pretty obvious what it is. The Saturn looks much better.
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30-mile fetchMarch 19th, 2013 at 2:17 pm
I agree that if a brand is going to introduce a fleet-only model, it had better be a modern competitive vehicle.
If you want to dump cheap, outdated material into the rental fleet, start an offshoot brand so rental customers turned off by the mediocrity will not automatically associate it with your main brand.
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ClutchCarGoMarch 19th, 2013 at 3:06 pm
I actually thought that FoMoCo should have kept the Mercury brand alive as a fleet only brand. Badge your basic Fords as Mercs for rental and govt fleets. It keeps the production lines busy and saves the residual value of Fords.
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BrunsworksMarch 19th, 2013 at 4:05 pm
That's a great idea. Since there was basically no value left in the Mercury brand by the end anyway, this would have given Ford a way to at least save the name.
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dtremitMarch 19th, 2013 at 3:09 pm
The one part of GM's strategy I have to question is the use of same-as-current names on the last-gen fleet cars. Captiva works because no one's ever heard of it. But I'll bet a lot of the target market for the new Impala wouldn't ever realize that the 2013 Impala Limited they rented is a completely different car than the 2013 Impala at the dealership. Couldn't they call it a Lumina again? Likewise, the last time around, the last-gen Malibu was actually just a "Chevy Classic."
Part of me wonders whether they should have retained one of their retired brands — I'll go with Oldsmobile — for fleet sales. CarMax probably wouldn't like it, though.
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OmnifanMarch 19th, 2013 at 3:45 pm
My 2006 vintage theory was to make the last generation of Taurus a "rental only." Here's the plan: Create a new LLC called "RentCo". Lease the old Taurus plant from Ford. Lease the employees from Ford too (they were willing to do that back then). Make the cars and sell them only to rental companies. Take them in trade and then dump them in some third world country when low price will make them sell. This way, Ford never competes with itself like GM used to do with rentals. Last phase would be to borrow $6B and pay a special dividend to myself. Then do an IPO and sell out. When the business went "poof" a year later, I'm on a beach somewhere enjoying my payoff.
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86erMarch 19th, 2013 at 4:24 pm
Don't forget to have your overpriced lawyers research tropical locales lacking an extradition agreement with the United States.
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HeeeeyJakeMarch 20th, 2013 at 4:01 am
I love the idea of remarketing our fleet vehicles overseas. There's more to it than we can examine here, but it seems allow a company to market the same product twice. And, once older vehicles (and older designs) have the bugs worked out, why not send them overseas with a short warranty knowing they are adequately reliable. And battle tested too!
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86SN2001March 19th, 2013 at 4:01 pm
"aside from the fact that GM thinks it can sell the thing for $40,000"
If Ford can sell the mediocre Taurus for $40-$50K, then GM will have no problem selling the vastly superior Impala for $40K
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LoserMarch 19th, 2013 at 4:14 pm
Please tell us all about your test drive of the new Impala. Were you able to drive the Taurus back to back with the Impala? After your test drive what areas did you find to be "vastly superior" to the Taurus?
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tresmonosMarch 19th, 2013 at 5:31 pm
Ford doesn't sell enough of the Taurus to justify a single shift of production. So… what will GM do?
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86SN2001March 20th, 2013 at 4:10 pm
That's true. The entire D3 platform that Ford recycled from Volvo has been a complete failure. First, The Five Hundred, Montego, and Freestyle failed, then Ford brought out three more failures on that platform (Taurus, Taurus X, and Sable), then they launched the Flex and Lincoln Taurus, which have been complete failures. Then in 2010, they Re-re release the Taurus to lackluster reviews and pitiful sales (which is why the are now fleet whoring it). Then, the Lincoln Flex was released only to become a complete failure. Then, the Explorer was released and while being the best selling failure, it's still a complete failure. Horrid inside and out, way too expensive, terrible visibility , and plagued with issues. It's no surprise they are fleet whoring that one too.
They are garbage vehicles on a garbage platform.
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cdakostMarch 20th, 2013 at 10:12 pm
I don't know how you can call the best selling 7 row CUV/SUV a complete failure. I have a 2012 Explorer XLT and having spent almost 10 hours last weekend going through vehicles at the Twin Cities Auto Show, I still find the Explorer to be the most comfortable. While it is a very wide vehicle, I don't have any trouble with visibility. I will say that I'm glad they included the blind spot mirrors in the upper corners, but with those I have no issues.
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thelaineMarch 20th, 2013 at 10:41 pm
If that sucker has 7 rows I'm all over it, I don't care how big a POS it is. I can take the whole orphanage on field trips.
cdakostMarch 21st, 2013 at 10:22 pm
Haha that should have been 7 seat but the thought of a 7 row Explorer is kind of fun.
thelaineMarch 21st, 2013 at 10:28 pm
I know cdakost. I was just being a smart ass but you are a good sport. (I did have a picture of a 7 row Explorer in my mind too though!)
VarezhkaMarch 19th, 2013 at 4:28 pm
Few other people have mentioned this, but would it be a good idea to take things one step further and setup a fleet only brand/logo?
My friend's five year old already thinks the bow tie badge is a rental car logo, and these kind of childhood association tends to stays with you for a long time.
What would rental car companies say to having an Enterprise or an Avis badge on the hood? Would it be an extra advertisement to them or just an extra impediment to resale at the end of their fleet life?
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LoserMarch 19th, 2013 at 4:31 pm
I don't understand all the hate for the Impala. Always had a good experience with them, they are comfortable, good power and very decent on gas. On the other hand I hope to never get stuck with another Caliber or Corolla.
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parabellum2000March 19th, 2013 at 4:51 pm
I've been very surprised by the prices of Captiva's in my area. They actually seem like descent vehicles. There are plenty on the market, but they are all advertised at $19,000 and up. Many in around $23K. I doubt most of the cars sold for that much to the fleets.
There are plenty of other small SUVs selling for less new. I guess it's just the crazy used car market, but I couldn't see spending more than $15K for one.
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jcoMarch 19th, 2013 at 4:56 pm
that malibu/malibu classic was one of the WORST cars anyone, inlcuding GM, has ever made. there are several communist cars that were probably more reliable and less humiliating to be seen in (in America, at least). if you were driving one, you either got the last rental on the lot right before closing or your credit was so bad you couldn't finance a Mitsubishi.
that car, to me, symbolizes everything that's bad about GM's cars of the 90s. it's like they got so ruined in every car segment (not trucks, those were still good) by the Japanese in the late 80s/early 90s that they just gave up.
they still make them for fleets? that isn't a joke?
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March 19th, 2013 at 5:03 pm
Hah! Ouch! They still make a "Malibu Classic," but now it's based on the 2008-2012 Malibu. They did the same thing in 2008 with the 04-07 Malibu. Apparently it's a strategy.
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racer-esq.March 19th, 2013 at 8:46 pm
The 2013 fleet Malibu is just a de-contented 2013 Malibu. The 2012 Malibu is an all-around better car than the 2013 Malibu, on a 4-inch longer wheelbase, so that would be a mess for Chevy to continue offering it vs. the new Malibu that Chevy sandbagged to create a market for the new Impala.
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March 19th, 2013 at 11:32 pm
Believe it or not, they're selling both! You can get a fleet 2013 Malibu or a fleet 2013 Malibu Classic, which is essentially a 2012 Malibu. This is the world of General Motors…
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HoserMarch 19th, 2013 at 11:15 pm
"that malibu/malibu classic was one of the WORST cars anyone, inlcuding GM, has ever made. there are several communist cars that were probably more reliable and less humiliating to be seen in (in America, at least). if you were driving one, you either got the last rental on the lot right before closing or your credit was so bad you couldn't finance a Mitsubishi."
I can't imagine someone driving it and anything else and choosing the Malibu.
I have to imagine most sales went like this:
Buyer: "I'm looking for a car."
Salesman: "What's important to you in a car? Mileage? Power? Handling? Comfort?"
Buyer: "I like white."
Salesman: "I have this Malibu right here. It's white."
Buyer: "Yes it is, I like white."
Salesman:"Come with me and we'll get the paperwork started."
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campocaceresMarch 19th, 2013 at 5:24 pm
The Impala I rented a few years ago was one of my favorite rentals ever. It was simple, comfortable, easy to use, and easy to drive. It, however, did not make me want a Chevy, but did help me understand why others might want one. If I had one today that had USB/iPod connectivity, I'd still be happy.
The Malibu rental I got the next year, however, reminded me again that I dislike GM cars. It was newer and better looking, but I just didn't enjoy being in it.
From my personal experience, a fleet only vehicle that made things as easy as possible for people to get acquainted with the car wouldn't be a bad thing. I've yet to drive a rental (and I've had plenty) that made me seriously consider the brand for my own car. The best fun was a Fiat 500, but pretty much all rental cars are temporary flings.
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MandalorianMarch 19th, 2013 at 5:29 pm
Say what you will about the old Impala's driving dynamics, (lack of) quality or refinement, but I am happy to see a sedan with a Front bench seat and column shifter soldier on.
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LichtronamoMarch 19th, 2013 at 5:32 pm
Fleet only for a old, uncompetitive model is a good idea. GM is messing it up (compared to the Chevy Classic and Captiva)in two ways:
1. Drop the "Impala" and "Malibu" names for the Limited and Classic respectively. Why confuse these has-been products (although the Malibu may truly be classic compared to the current retail car) with those Joe Q. Public is supposed to go down to their Chevy dealer and buy. The comparison of the fleet only product with competing retail offering will not be favorable to GM as the author points out.
2. GM is missing a HUGE opportunity with the Limited to corner the police fleet market much in the same way that Ford did with Crown Vic. The W-Body would have to cost less than the imported Caprice and would relieve a lot of the long-term maintenance concerns of the Australian vehicle (as well as nationalistic purchasing policies). The W-body would probably also undercut the Ford Taurus based Police Interceptor while addressing some of its major shortcomings for police service highlighted in the earlier TTAC review if only because the hardpoints of the basic platform predate the chopped look for DLO. Note that the original Ford Fivehunred/Taurus would also probablly make an even better police service car…
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makabeMarch 19th, 2013 at 5:52 pm
I really liked this article because it made me snort my milk. Keep it up, Doug.
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Carl KolchakMarch 19th, 2013 at 7:36 pm
Always wondered why the Des Moines airport was called i"International". Worked there for while and flied home to Vegas. Great little airport. 1st time I flew into there, had an Aveo. Now there's GM's finest hour (sarc)
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28-Cars-LaterMarch 19th, 2013 at 7:38 pm
I would imagine flights to Canada are all it would take to be "international" in the airport world.
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corntrollioMarch 19th, 2013 at 8:00 pm
You don't even need to have scheduled commercial flights to another country to be called "International". Some airports just use it as a marketing term. A good example is Gary/Chicago International Airport. I think it only has one scheduled commercial route, and it's not international.
A lot of these "international airports" may be able to deal with customs and immigration issues for cargo planes and charters, but in some cases you need to give advance notice because they don't have full-time staffing.
However, regardless of whether it has the name "international" or not, an airport has to be cleared by Treasury/Customs, the Attorney General, and Health and Human Services in order for international traffic to land there.
John Wayne Airport (no "international" in the name, I believe) in Santa Ana/Orange County, CA and Alaska Airlines got in trouble for this. Alaska started up a Vancouver flight from John Wayne, but the airport wasn't a permitted port of entry then. They thought they didn't need customs facilities because the passengers went through immigration/customs in Vancouver before boarding the aircraft, but Customs requires occasional spot-checks in the US to ensure preclearance is working properly. John Wayne is a port of entry now, and they even have proper customs facilities now for flights that can also handle flights that don't pre-clear, but Alaska had to start routing the flight through Seattle to make it compliant.
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glwilliaMarch 20th, 2013 at 2:24 am
Same thing with the Port Columbus International Airport, in Columbus, Ohio. It has weekly flights to Cancun (mostly because of OSU's spring break), and Toronto. The currency-exchange counter is in some remote corner of the airport where they keep half the lights off because there's no foot traffic, and two of the most bored-looking employees I've ever seen.
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KevinMarch 19th, 2013 at 10:22 pm
Doug, the only mistake in your analysis is your premise that a Camry is somehow a better car than the Impala (yes, I've driven both 2012 models). It has the same squishy ride, decent sound system, and mediocre trim pieces the Impala does. The only difference is the Camry comes with a 4 banger (which will please the fuel economy nuts) and the Impala has a 300 HP V6 (which pleases the leadfoots among us).
Other than that, they're the same car.
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IonMarch 19th, 2013 at 10:49 pm
I would never judge my opinion of a car (or brand) on a rental, subsequently I would never buy a former rental either. As a mechanic I've come to realize people beat the ever loving expletitive out of rentals. sadly there's plenty of John Smiths out there though.
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cargoghMarch 19th, 2013 at 11:07 pm
My friend, Murrell had a rented '88 Grand Am, and he wanted me to follow him to Hartsfield to drop it off after a weekend to Knoxville. He had called Avis? about the pronounced oil leak. On I-75 he tried racing my '86 GLH turbo, but the smoking automatic-equipped iron duke wasn't cooperating. He was a smoker and still complained of the cloud coming out when he opened the door. I bet it was locked up after it cooled down. He didn't really care.
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George HerbertMarch 19th, 2013 at 11:34 pm
Ion – Sure, but try getting an extended test drive in something.
I've got "a course" up in the hills I'd like to run a sports car through if I'm going to buy, but no way is any dealer going to let me add 20+ miles of twisties on a test drive, plus the drive there and back.
Rent and take your chances on condition.
I suppose the ultimate fix is becoming a well-known car writer, and then cars apparently fall from heaven upon your manly shoulders. To which I say, "bring it on", and any car companies that want me to replicate my Highway 1 run writeup in their vehicle for a car+road report can contact me in the usual manners…
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OtterpopsMarch 20th, 2013 at 1:29 pm
"You walk out to your car, which turns out to be an Impala Limited. You throw your bags in. And nine miles later you decide that you never, ever, under any circumstances ever want to come into contact with any Chevrolet product ever again. You silently pat yourself on the back for buying a Camry"
This would be just as possible if the Impala weren't a fleet-only car, so it does nothing to support your argument (which already had me convinced, mind you).
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Sixth grade (called Grade 6 in some regions) is a year of education in the United States and some other nations. The sixth grade is the sixth school year after kindergarten. Students are usually 11 – 12 years old. Traditionally, sixth grade is the first year of middle school, or the final year of elementary school.
In the United States and Canada, sixth grade is usually the first year of middle school, or the last year of elementary school, as stated above. Students usually have different teachers for each subject. Grade 6 also usually means having a locker in these countries.
- In mathematics, students learn about Fractions and decimals. Exponents are also generally introduced, and students learn about the properties of circles and polygons, and the measurement of angles in degrees. Pre-Algebra and Algebra I are taught in some schools, as honors courses.
- In science, students usually learn about life science, physical science, earth science. Students are introduced to scientific methodology, taxonomy, and ecology.
- In English, students usually learn about grammar and the different types of writing (e.g. poetry, narrative, book report, research report).
- In social studies, students learn about history from the formation of early humans and its ancestors to around the Fall of Rome.
In Malta, 6th grade is equivalent to Form 1 age of 11-12. This is the first year where students have different teachers for each subject but most schools have the same classroom for most of the subjects(such as Mathematics, English, Italian, French, science, Maltese etc.). This is the first year of secondary school.
In Ireland, the equivalent is 6th Class which is the 8th year, and final year of Primary School.
In Singapore, the equivalent is Primary 5 or Primary 6, as the Singapore academic year starts in January, unlike in Europe, Canada, and The USA where it starts in September.
Average students start learning Algebra, Statistics/Data Analysis. For English, students learn English grammar. For Science classes, students learn about Biology, Chemistry and Physics as diverging branches of Science.
Advanced students in "special classes", known as SAP,or start learning Trigonometry and Advanced Algebra. For English, students start learning to write short stories and exploration of Shakespeare. For Science classes, students learn about agricultural contamination, industrial pollution and the origin of species (evolution).
Gifted Education Programme (GEP) students start learning the History of Mathematics, and Applications of Complex Algebra and Trigonometry in industrial circumstances. For English, GEP students start to learn writing their own novels, poetry and documentaries. For Science classes, students are encouraged to develop their own software applications such as iphone apps. GEP students also learn about the origin of the Empiricism in Science with the advent of European Enlightenment.
Its English and Welsh equivalent is Year 7, the first year of secondary school. Its Northern Irish equivalent is First Form or Year 8, which is also the first year of secondary school. The Scottish equivalent is Primary 7, which is the last year of primary school.
In Brazil, the age of the first year in elementary school was recently raised from 8 to 9 years. As such the minimum age required to enter the 6th grade was changed from 10 to 11 years old.
In the Philippines, the age to be a Grade 6 student/6th grader is between 11- 12 yrs. old. In some places, 6th graders are aged from 9 - 10 yrs. old because of their status of being an accelerant.
In Australia, Sixth grade is the last or second last year of Primary School.
In New Zealand, it is considered Year 7, the first year of intermediate school.
In Finland, equivalent is grade 6 (ages 11–12).
From Yahoo Answers
Answers:If it's so easy, why don't you do your own homework??? Seriously it's getting really annoying constantly seeing homework "help" questions on here, esp. since it's not even help, it's "do it for me cuz im lazy". um no, clue phrase is "in your own words" not "my words". Get off YA and crack your textbook!!
Answers:15.i think its oceanic crust 16.food? 17.atmosphere 18.crust 19.radiation (solar energy) conduction convection 20.hmm.pass 21. 22above and below north and south north pole and south pole 23first time to hear that question 24greenwich? 26ha?? just continue next time..
Answers:6 energy can be released during a chemical reaction. Burning a log is a chemical reaction. Heat, or thermal energy is one type of energy released.
Answers:1. Shadow: a dark figure or image cast on the ground or some surface by a body intercepting light. 2.tendon:A band of tough, inelastic fibrous tissue that connects a muscle with its bony attachment 3. Ax: an instrument with a bladed head on a handle or helve, used for hewing, cleaving, chopping, etc. 4. Circulatory System: the system of organs and tissues, including the heart, blood, blood vessels, lymph, lymphatic vessels, and lymph glands, involved in circulating blood and lymph through the body. 5. Carbon Dioxide: a colorless, odorless, incombustible gas, CO2, present in the atmosphere and formed during respiration, usually obtained from coal, coke, or natural gas by combustion, from carbohydrates by fermentation, by reaction of acid with limestone or other carbonates, or naturally from springs: used extensively in industry as dry ice, or carbon dioxide snow, in carbonated beverages, fire extinguishers, etc. 6. Cold, Warm, HOT, Cool LOL the Seasons!One of the four natural divisions of the year, spring, summer, fall, and winter, in the North and South Temperate zones. Each season, beginning astronomically at an equinox or solstice, is characterized by specific meteorological or climatic conditions.
From Youtube

subset: commoncrawl


text:
NewswireToday - /newswire/ -
Costa Mesa, CA, United States, 2015/12/07 - SYSPRO announced that SYSPRO Enterprise Resource Planning (ERP) software has been selected by Ameri-Fab, LLC - AmeriFabLLC.com / SYSPRO.com.
SYSPRO, a provider of best-of-breed, award-winning enterprise resource planning (ERP) software for on-premise, mobile and cloud-based utilization, today announced that SYSPRO Enterprise Resource Planning (ERP) software has been selected by Ameri-Fab, LLC to facilitate operational enhancements and further the companys mission to react quickly to project demands, maintain firm production schedules and uphold an "uncompromising commitment to quality, safety, and efficiency."
According to Ken Laye, Chief Financial Officer, Ameri-Fab, which had been utilizing QuickBooks Enterprise, selected SYSPRO ERP Software over Microsoft Dynamics and Macola Exact based on "user requirements, best value for price and an ability to supply the data needed for job costing, enabling management to maximize decisions and upholding the companys highest standards of quality and service."
About Ameri-Fab, LLC
Ameri-Fab, LLC (amerifabllc.com) provides single source design & engineering, procurement and fabrication services to the energy industry. Ameri-Fab specializes in ASME Pressure Vessels, Process Piping Fabrication, Process Skid Modules and Structural Steel Fabrication. Ameri-Fab manufactures equipment used in drilling & completion, production, processing & treating, measurement and air emissions for clients across the country and around the world.
Ameri-Fab products assist in facilitating the essential functions to process crude hydrocarbons with a vast range of reliable, pre-engineered, field proven equipment. The companys progress and success are based on uncompromising commitment to quality, safety and efficiency as well as acting quickly to project demands and holding firm production schedules. For more information on Ameri-Fab, LLC, call 817-757-4122
About SYSPRO
SYSPRO (syspro.com) is one of the longest standing and largest independent, international providers of ERP systems for mid-market manufacturers and distributors worldwide. SYSPRO has for more than 35 years delivered on its promise to provide thousands of its customers globally with the tools required to effectively operate and compete. Backed by a truly dedicated and professional team of employees and partners around the world, the companys ability to innovate and develop technologies based on the needs of customers is one of the reasons why SYSPRO enjoys one of the highest retention rates in the industry.
Written by / Agency / Source: SYSPRO / 3 Business Technology Group Plc
Availability: All Regions (Including Int'l)
Traffic Booster: [/] Quick Newswire Today Visibility Checker
Distribution / Indexing: [+] / [Company listed above is a registered member of our network. Content made possible by PRZOOM / PRTODAY indexing services]


text:
yellow retro funny brown cool bears crazy bear deadly awesome
lazer bears the world in trouble now
Yeah watch out!
LASERBEARS! sweet design, you getting one?
Great artwork mate, love the design :)
Thanks man!
bear+lazers=Jesus? i certainly dare not stop their pure liquidy goodness, xD
great T mate, liking the tees you are producing!
Awsome logo mate, really good design
no right to bear lasers.
Adams meets a grizzly end!
Loading more work by LazerBears...
10% off
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text:
At a meeting the day after Roosevelt's inauguration, a banker named Wayne Wing made a half-joking motion "to do something." The minutes, kept by Adolph Berle, soon to be an important Roosevelt administration official, read: "Approved. (Futility! Gosh!)."
The group considered all kinds of wacky ideas, including one from FDR himself. Recalling his days selling bonds in the 1920s, Roosevelt suggested that all $21 billion in government bonds be immediately redeemable in cash, regardless of maturity date. The assembled bankers and government officials were horrified by the idea, which they said would spark ruinous inflation. The U.S. was still on the gold standard (though not for long) and the financial orthodoxy of the day held that simply printing more money wasn't an option.
Others suggested creating "scrip," which is temporary currency. The city of Chicago and Dow Chemical Co., among others, had already begun issuing such funny money. But William Woodin, Roosevelt's new Treasury secretary, figured people would just hoard the scrip the way they were hoarding gold and silver.


text:
Sarah Jessica Parker glowed in yellow at the Sex And The City 2 premiere in New York City last night (May 24). The 45-year-old mother of three opened up to Parade about her family – including hubby Matthew Broderick, 7 1/2-year-old son James Wilke, and 11-month-old twin daughters Loretta and Tabitha – and how she keeps connected with her friends.
On her favorite thing to do: "I love just being with my family — going to the grocery store, cooking dinner, putting my twins to bed, changing their diapers, getting my older son ready for school and packing his lunch. Staying home with my family and my husband is the thing I love most in the world. Is it sexy? I don't know about that, but it sure is fun and it's definitely unpredictable."
On making time for friends: "You can be a good friend even when you barely have time. Make the effort to send a note, or call and say, 'I've got children screaming in the background, but I miss you and I love you and I think about you. You're on my mind, even if I don't get to tell you every day.' I think your real friends understand that there's lots of responsibilities you have with your family, but you just figure out how to nurture your friendships any way you can."


text:
JERUSALEM (Jun. 24)
Opposition parties in the Knesset Finance Committee are blocking approval of a state budget–apparently with the objective of embarrassing the government. A three-month interim budget approved by the Knesset expires next Sunday and the government faces the situation of having to operate without a budget after that date.
The opposition parties–Likud. National Religious Party and the Aguda bloc–occupy 11 of the 22 seats on the Finance Committee and have voted en bloc against the budgets for individual ministries. State Attorney Meir Shamgar has ruled that if the vote in committee is tied, the budget is regarded as approved and may be sent to the Knesset, where the government coalition commands a majority, for final passage.
But the Finance Committee has yet to vote on the new budget as a whole. It is not certain how the Aguda bloc will vote this time. If it goes along with Likud and the NRP to create another tie, the opposition may drag out the proceedings so that the government begins the month of July with no approved budget.


text:
The Good Will Out
Sorry, sold out
Shoes Master MagazineSpring / Summer 2014 VOL. 21 247 pages Japanese textContents: News & Topics, Shoes Master 10th anniversary, Sneaker A to Z 2014, Learning from the past. "ZX Family" Since 1984, New Baölance "580" Chronicle, Reebok Classic Instapump Fury 20th anniversary, Admiral 100th anniversary, 2014 Spring - Summer close up "Brand" new items: Puma, Onitsuka Tiger, Asics, le coq sportif, Pantofola d'Oro, BROOKS, Converse, Gravis, pointer, Infinito, k-Swiss, Lacoste, Fred Perry etc.


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Get an overview of this hotelHotel with free breakfast, near Golden1Center
Popular property highlights
Situated near the airport, this hotel is within 2 mi (3 km) of American River Bike Trail, Golden1Center, and California State Capitol. Fort Sutter State Historical Park is 2.9 mi (4.7 km) away.
Hotel Features
This smoke-free hotel features a fitness center, a spa tub, and a 24-hour business center. Free buffet breakfast, free WiFi in public areas, and free self parking are also provided. Additionally, a seasonal outdoor pool, meeting rooms, and dry cleaning are onsite.
Room Amenities
All 50 rooms provide free WiFi and free wired Internet, LCD TVs with satellite channels, and conveniences like sofa beds and refrigerators. Other amenities available to guests include microwaves, room service, and premium bedding.
Guest Highlights
- Exceptional value
- Good location
- Breakfast
- Helpful staff
- Clean guestrooms
Comfort Suites Downtown Sacramento
Hotel Amenities
Hotel Amenities
In addition to a seasonal outdoor pool, Comfort Suites Downtown Sacramento provides a spa tub and a fitness center. A computer station is located on site and wireless Internet access is complimentary. Business-related amenities consist of a 24-hour business center and a meeting room. A complimentary breakfast is offered. Event facilities measure 300 square feet (28 square meters). This business-friendly hotel also offers complimentary newspapers in the lobby, laundry facilities, and dry cleaning/laundry services. Complimentary self parking is available on site.
Comfort Suites Downtown Sacramento is a smoke-free property.
- Number of buildings/towers - 1
- 24-hour front desk
- Total number of rooms - 50
- Number of floors - 3
- Dry cleaning/laundry service
- Free newspapers in lobby
- Free breakfast
- Express check-in
- Express check-out
- Fitness facilities
- Elevator/lift
- Computer station
- Laundry facilities
- Meeting rooms
- One meeting room
- Safe-deposit box at front desk
- Conference space size (meters) - 28
- 24-hour business center
- Conference space size (feet) - 300
- Free self parking
- Smoke-free property
- Spa tub
- Outdoor seasonal pool
- Free WiFi
Family Friendly Amenities
- Family Hotel
- Free Wi-Fi
- Laundry facilities
- Sofa bed
- Refrigerator
- Microwave
Available in all rooms: Free WiFi , Free wired Internet
Available in some public areas: Free WiFi
Free self parking
Room Amenities
- Premium TV channels
- Pay movies
- Premium bedding
- Air conditioning
- Free newspaper
- Phone
- Coffee/tea maker
- Daily housekeeping
- Private bathroom
- Free toiletries
- Hair dryer (on request)
- Satellite TV service
- Desk
- Sofa bed
- Free local calls
- Iron/ironing board
- Free wired Internet
- Blackout drapes/curtains
- Microwave
- Refrigerator
- Room service (limited hours)
- Free WiFi
Where to Eat
Guests are offered a complimentary buffet breakfast.
Room service (during limited hours) is available.
Nearby Things to Do
A seasonal outdoor pool and a spa tub are on site. Other recreational amenities include a fitness center.
If you have requests for specific accessibility needs, please note them at check-out when you book your room.
- Accessible bathroom
- In-room accessibility
Hotel Policies
Check-in time ends at 3 AM
Check-in time starts at 3 PM
Check-out time is 11 AM
Payment types
Children and extra beds
- Children are welcome.
- Kids stay free! Children 18 years old and younger stay free when using existing bedding.
- Rollaway/extra beds are not available.
- Pets not allowed
You need to know
Extra-person charges may apply and vary depending on property policy.
- The name on the credit card used at check-in to pay for incidentals must be the primary name on the guestroom reservation.
- Cash deposit: USD 100 per stay
Hotel Name
- Comfort Suites Downtown Hotel Sacramento
- Comfort Suites Downtown Sacramento
- Comfort Suites Downtown Sacramento Hotel
- Comfort Suites Sacramento
- Sacramento Comfort Suites
We should mention
This property's policy is to refuse certain bookings for the purpose of group events or parties, including pre-wedding stag/bachelor and hen/bachelorette parties. Children 18 years old and younger stay free when occupying the parent or guardian's room, using existing bedding. Only registered guests are allowed in the guestrooms.


text: As subject I changed the dog bone bushes on my car while I was doing some other work /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif Anyway I now have a judder at low speed which I assume is being caused by the up rated bushes? Anyone else suffered from this? Or does this seem normal? (Maybe too hard?) Cheers Mark.


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Property Details
Spinney Mews, Headless Cross, Redditch
- Property type: Semi-detached house
- Description
- Floorplan
- Map
This stylishly refurbished semi-detached property, is located in a pleasant cul-de-sac in the popular locale of Headless Cross. The home has a superb location having a generous garden with established trees, and a Detached Single Garage with three off road parking spaces.
The home has been refurbished to a high specification and is comfortably appointed with the internal accommodation briefly comprising: Ground Floor Entrance Hall; Lounge; Rear Hall; Cloakroom; Kitchen/Diner and Enclosed Side passage. First Floor Landing; Three Bedrooms and a House Bathroom with shower cubicle.
General Information There is a Detached Single Garage with front garden, Worcester Combination Boiler, UPVC Double Glazing.
Please note that property locations are approximate. If you would like to find the exact location of a property please contact the relevant office.
[Information correct as of Sep 25, 2017]


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I'm building an setup file using InstallShield 2012 Spring Pro which bundles several Visual C++ components with my installer. However, when I run my installer on a Japanese version of Windows 7 (32-bit), I received the following error (as extracted
from the MSI log in %TEMP%):
エラー 1935。アセンブリ コンポーネント {6D321E57-3E99-3B87-BF23-2CDFF3361CB4} のインストール中にエラーが発生しました。 HRESULT: 0x800736FD. アセンブリ インターフェイス: IAssemblyCacheItem, 関数: Commit, アセンブリ名: Microsoft.VC90.CRT,publicKeyToken="1fc8b3b9a1e18e3b",type="win32",version="9.0.30729.1",processorArchitecture="x86"
Error 1935. An error occurred during the installation of assembly component {6D321E57-3E99-3B87-BF23-2CDFF3361CB4}. HRESULT:. 0x800736FD assembly interface: IAssemblyCacheItem, function: Commit, assembly name: Microsoft.VC90.CRT, publicKeyToken = "1fc8b3b9a1e18e3b",
type = "win32", version = "9.0.30729.1", processorArchitecture = "x86"
I've contacted the support staff at Flexera Software, the folks that make InstallShield, and they've sent me here, since my problem seems to be installing a Visual C++ merge module. My installer is attempting to install the following:
If x86:
If x64:
Now, what ends up happening, is the installation starts, I encounter the 1935 error, and everything rolls back. But when I check the Programs under Control Panel, I see that something called "Visual C++ 2008 Redistributable -x86" is installed,
v9.0.21022, which wasn't there previously. Then I can see from the log file that the component that failed is v9.0.30729.1.
Could there be some kind of conflict between versions here? I really have no idea why this is failing, does anyone have a hint for me?
Have you tried that in Windows 7 with other language version?
Have a look at this: http://turbotax.intuit.com/support/iq/Install-Product/Error-1935--An-error-occurred-during-the-installation-of-assembly/SLN12416.html
Lazylamb loves smelly cat.
Thanks for the link, I'll keep it for reference. If the problem rears its ugly head again, I can troubleshoot with solutions 1-3.
Yes, I've tried in English, Spanish, French, German, Greek, Chinese, and several other languages. I've only seen this problem on a laptop with the OS in Japanese and reinstalling Windows 7 cleared the issue. However, I still need to find the root cause in
case this issue crops up again.
Microsoft is conducting an online survey to understand your opinion of the Msdn Web site. If you choose to participate, the online survey will be presented to you when you leave the Msdn Web site.
Would you like to participate?


text:
Welcome to Countywide Accommodation where we are providing a comprehensive mix of holiday, business and recreational accommodation. Rather than providing one UK site we aim to provide a series of individual County websites and within those Counties we will provide a series of standalone town / city websites.
Running our websites in this way, will provide advertisers on each of our County websites, free additional advertising on up to three of our local town / city websites. It will also provide people with an accommodation requirement to cherry pick the county in which they wish to stay or to narrow their search to an individual town / city.
From a search engine point of view, individual county websites will do very well as all things on that site are related to that county. The same goes for an individual town / city where the site will be full of accommodation and information specific to that particular area.
Our first venture, covering Kent, has proved ultra successful and we are sure that future sites will prove to be equally successful. The Kent site is currently producing a vast number of first page search engine listings, a vital ingredient in providing the many referrals to properties advertising on our websites.
If you would like to advertise with us and join in our success, please follow the links below to visit either of the two current county sites where you can obtain a quote and have a look around.
If you have any questions you can contact David or Natalie at email@example.com
Website currently online
County Sites:
Kent Accommodation
Sussex Accommodation
Kent Accommodation
Town Sites:
Maidstone Accommodation
Ashford Accommodation
Countywide Accommodation
Tonbridge Accommodation
Herne Bay - Whitstable Accommodation
Margate Accommodation
Margate - Ramsgate Accommodation
Medway Towns Accommodation
Ramsgate Accommodation
Rochester Accommodation
Sandwich - Deal Accommodation
Sevenoaks Accommodation
Sittingbourne Faversham Accommodation
Canterbury Accommodation
Dover Accommodation
Tunbridge Wells Accommodation
Arundel Accommodation
Battle Accommodation
Bognor Regis Accommodation
Brighton Accommodation
Chichester Accommodation
Crawley Accommodation
Eastbourne Accommodation
East Grinstead Accommodation
Hastings Accommodation
Horsham Accommodation
Lewes Accommodation
Pulborough Accommodation
Rye Accommodation
Uckfield Accommodation
Worthing Accommodation


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I am a type 2. I have a meter and have been checking sugars to figure out what to eat. I take 3 metformins at night before bed each night. Sometimes when I check it at night it is between 90 - 115 but other times it is 180 or higher. When it has been high I have not eaten anything since dinner or if I do eat it is sugar free jello or some string cheese.
I go to bed and check my sugar before breakfast and it will range from 139 - 170. Sometimes I will wait to eat to see if my sugar will come down and sometimes I will eat anyways. After two hours I check my sugar and it is 90.
Any thoughts would be great.
Metformin XR is extended release metformin. It's action should still be going strong in the morning.
I suffer from morning highs as well. As Sally notes, this is Darn Phenomenon. I found that eating in the morning "resets" things, so I always eat breakfast in the morning, even if it is just two eggs. If I don't eat, my blood sugar can remain elevated and even rise further.
Hi my A1c is 6.5. I see my Dr tomorrow morning.
Thank you for the tips Brian
I was always instructed to take metformin with a meal. Check with your pharmacist and physician concerning this issue. Good luck. Nancy
i will be the cat among the pidgeons!
The liver/brain starts the extra glucose boost starting about 3 am in the morning and keeps up the release thru to 8 to 9 am in morning.
For me a couple of issues:
Loading big doses late at night once seem useless. I have to take a 500 to 750 mg dose at 10:00pm and another dose at 12:00am midnight and that shuts down the Dawn effect and keeps liver caged from about 13:30 am thru 5:30 am on standard metformin. Satndard metformin on me has a about 2 hour lasting in the blood at peak blood dosage and cuts back excess liver glucose release.
my understanding is that ER has twice the working range of 3 to 6 hours while standard metformin has a 1 to 3 hour period. And this is not talking about residuals in the cells that last longer but have no effect on my liver.
I have watched this riot on the cgms many times as well as confirming on the caveman machine.
I have found for me taking my meal time dose one hour before a meal most beneficial while the standard recommendation is at/with meal time.
For some reason there is this belief that if you add bigger dose, body/liver will redistribute dosage over longer time period. All my testing says non,no nyet,. I have to distribute doses across/spread over the clock to get even ditribution and effect. (same for heart pills and others)
And as stated check with your Doctor/pharmacist.
Brian, Thank you for your insights…I guess not eating will actually raise BS? Sigh. I am going back to the Atkins/Dr. Bernstein way of eating…and wondering if I can take regular metformin for breakfast and lunch, but maybe have the Metformin ER - at dinner for the "Darn/Dawn" phenomenon…I will have to discuss this my MD.
Hope you are still on this forum!!


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So the Auspicious KHRC decided that they would hold an awards ceremony for all the supporters of the gay community and to all those that have contributed to this good fight.
I must say the way it was portrayed in most mainstream media was rather appalling. What I understood from the news reports was that gay people were being awarded and I was obviously perturbed as to the rationale behind the whole affair.
Needless to say it appears mainstream media and by extension the general public is far from being tolerant to and accepting of the gay community if the reactions on twitter were anything to go by. Twitter for me is a very useful barometer of what the middle class intelligentsia /consuming class is harping on about, what the latest outrage by the ruling class is or the latest ignorance or 'shagzmodo' behavior emanating from the 'ghettos' . All in all it paints a rather accurate picture of what the public thinks of current affairs and it doesn't get more current than having a gay awards gala.
I can understand why the Kenya Human Rights Commission would want to award those who advocate for gay rights. Its a tough world out there for gays and especially worse here in Africa. Ask the regular African pedestrian what he thinks of gay people and he/she will say its unafrican. I have always been stumped by this universal opinion. I mean, how far back in our history can we pinpoint and say "See. For thousands of years Africa has not had a single gay man or woman. There are the records' you can pore through them and see being gay is very unafrican."
I believe this notion was a cultural import by the puritan and prudish missionaries that landed in Mombasa and decided that worshiping a Caucasian featured Jew who supposedly died thousands of years ago was better for the community than the spiritual based religion they found. As John Lennon once asked, "Why do we hide when making love but glorify violence in the open?"
Its about time we stopped this fear based attacks on individuals freedoms on their sexual orientation. Its really none of your business what a man decides to do with another man.


text:
And, of course, the fine print:
Get free shipping on your next order when you spend over $100. The discount will be automatically applied to your purchase; no promo code required. The subtotal of your purchase must be $100.01 or greater after any promotional discounts have been applied. Additional fees such as tax or shipping and handling do not apply toward your minimum subtotal requirement of $100.01. Offer applies to standard shipping only. Certain items that require additional shipping and handling are excluded from this promotion and do not apply towards your $100.01 subtotal minimum. Offer subject to change.
Send a quick hello to a friend with these Nashville-themed cards. Printed on bright white linen card stock, each card features an illustrated harmonica, a familiar tune in the music city.
- Includes 10 cards
- Printed on bright white linen card stock
- Includes 100% recycled kraft paper envelopes
- Blank inside
- Measures 5.5" x 4.25"
This product ships from the maker within 7 days, via USPS
If you're not happy with this item for any reason, you may return it for a full refund within 14 days.


text:
Buy Ticketswww.ticketfly.com
2013 starts an entirely new chapter for Eats Everything's ongoing bid for world domination, kicking off with his 'Feather Fight' EP with fellow Dirtybird Justin Martin and a remix of Jamie Jones' 'Whiff It Yall'. Then there's 'The Withywood Walk' on the Dirtybird Players compilation dropping shortly after, and his collaboration with Total Enormous Extinct Dinosaurs due on Crosstown Rebels in May. Outside the DJ / artist world he's also producing for a select few artists and is in the middle of working with singer/song writer Sinead Harnett on her debut solo material. When it comes to touring, his appetite for consumption continues to take him further afield, with tours in Asia & Australia in the coming months. Looking across the summer, things certainly won't be slowing down either, with shows confirmed for a clean sweep of UK festivals, including Glastonbury, Bestival, Eastern Electrics, Creamfields, Secret Garden Party, Love Saves the Day, Parklife, High Definition, T in The Park and Farr backed up by Hideout, Melt, Sonar, Snowbombing, Garden, and Mysterlands in Europe. In Ibiza he will be bringing his trademark brand of bass-laden house to a wide range of different nights including, Carl Cox at Space, Paradise at DC10, Together at Amnesia, Le Grand Bazar at Ushuaia, Defected at Bomba and dirtybird's at Sankeys. This year will also see Dan continue to push Eats Everything to even loftier heights with the launch of his Edible movement. In the most basic sense, this will consolidate the many different facets of his buoyant personality and eclectic taste in music into a movement that will manifest itself in numerous ways. Kicking off with a UK tour in May, this unique platform will encompass all things Eats, and will provide a vehicle with which to push him further forward than ever before.
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Local Sourcing: What Foodservice Distributors are Doing to Meet Demand
September 12, 2013
Tallman Family Farms of Tower City, Pa., is one of a number of local produce suppliers used by IFDA member Pocono ProFoods.
This case study discusses what their companies are doing in local sourcing, and why operator customers share their views supporting local.
Did you enjoy this article? Click here to subscribe to Refrigerated & Frozen Foods magazine.


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St. Charles Parish Council has passed a resolution to provide a portion of the $130 million in financing needed to bring a bio-diesel production facility that could create at least 30 high-paying jobs on the east bank this year.
Theres still competition from other parishes that want this plant, but this resolution puts us at the top of the list, Corey Faucheux, director of economic planning and tourism, told council members.
We expect to know something definite in four to six weeks. The Iowa-based Renewable Energy Group Inc. asked the parish to sponsor up to $130 million in industrial bonds to help finance the plant that would produce 60 million gallons of fuel a year at a site in St. Rose.
To help with the initiative, council also passed a resolution asking the U.S. Congress to provide an extension to St. Charles Parish as part of the Gulf Opportunity Zone Act of 2005.
The GOZone Act was established to help parishes rebuild economies devastated by hurricanes Katrina and Rita, Council Vice Chairman Snookie Faucheux said.
The parish can use significant tax incentives offered in the Act to support the bio-diesel production facility project.


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Free Refill: Coffee / Soft Drinks ?
Double Cheeseburger
2009/08/28 14:57:10
Greetings, Roadfooders!
"Free Refill" is not common here in Germany, only MDs offers free refill for their coffee. Being in Manitoba/Canada in 1979, free refill for soft drings was common in most of the cafes, also for coffee, what about this in the USA...?
I am wondering, if they will start to charge for a toothpick or a paper napkin over here in Germany...
Kind regards
Re:Free Refill: Coffee / Soft Drinks ?
2009/08/28 15:07:52
Having been in the US a few times, free soft drink and coffee refills were the norm...although I nearly always had to ask for them without the ice otherwise the drinks would be half water (same here in Canada too).
It's starting to catch on in the UK now too with the American chains such as TGI's.
Double Cheeseburger
Re:Free Refill: Coffee / Soft Drinks ?
2009/08/28 15:36:10
Greetings to Canada, kirstine!
Being in Shilo/Manitoba in the year 1979, "free refill" was new to us german soldiers, we never used this offer for soft drinks, modest as we were...
Coffee free refill was common over there, but I do not like to talk about canadian so called "Coffee", sorry.
All you can eat
restaurants are very popular here in Germany, but you have to pay for every single drink, be it beer, a soft drink, or a cup of coffee...
(btw, I do not like this "All you can eat" restaurants here in Germany, I have never visited such a place.)
Kind regards
mayor al
Fire Safety Admin
Re:Free Refill: Coffee / Soft Drinks ?
2009/08/28 16:23:26
The 'free refill' offer varies widely around the country (USA) . Many places offer free tea and coffee refills, but not other beverages. Some offer the coffee and tea and Soda, or at least some soda. The two beverages seldom included in the 'free refill' catagory are Milk and (Real) Juice. Alcoholic beverages are seldom part of the free-refill deal anywhere.
Re:Free Refill: Coffee / Soft Drinks ?
2009/09/05 06:37:20
on the west coast, most of the fast-food places have self-service soda dispensers in the dining areas and free refills are usually allowed. most upscale restaurants give free refills on anything that doesn't come out of a bottle or can (coffee, tea, soda on tap) but i've never been to a restaurant that gives out free beer refills...:(
Re:Free Refill: Coffee / Soft Drinks ?
2009/09/14 20:55:12
I remember when I grew up in Canada that most places charged for soft drinks by the glass and when I visited my relatives in Texas, they had free refills.
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Mark Koba is a senior editor at CNBC.com. Topics for his feature story writing include the business of politics, health care, employment and the economy.
Before working at CNBC.com, he spent 11 years at Bloomberg LP, where among various duties, he was program producer for the award-winning "Bloomberg Small Business" television show.
Koba's background includes a decade of news writing and show producing at CNN, E! Entertainment Television, ABC's "World News Now," "Good Morning America" and CBS' "This Morning."
Follow Mark Koba on Twitter @MarkKobaCNBC.
A new survey lists the top college majors that make someone the most employable. It also lists those making someone the least employable.
As the FAA formulates rules regarding commercial use of drones, experts say American farmers are falling behind other countries who use it.
As the Golden State enters a fourth year of drought, a wet winter is "crucial" to the country's biggest agricultural producer.
Efforts to develop an Ebola vaccine have been in the works for some time. But experts say it's unlikely to see one available anytime soon.
The Ebola outbreak in West Africa is the deadliest on record and threatens to spread. What is this disease, and how do people get it?
The newest batch of crop seeds is setting off another debate over GMOs. This time, they're being blamed for an infestation of "superweeds."
Another UN climate change summit has experts wondering if anything will get done and if the right measures to stop greenhouse emissions are in place.
A record harvest will likely cause financial hardships on grain farmers due to a lack of rail service. Some point the finger at the oil industry for the problem.
California has finally adapted new regulations when it comes to groundwater usage. But some experts say they will have no effect on the drought.
Major sponsors have made public statements criticizing the NFL over its handling of Ray Rice and Adrian Peterson. Will the displeasure take hold?