text: [[quoteright:300:http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/suikoden-5_8516.jpg]]%%Image selected per Image Pickin' thread: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=1325073773038340100%%Please do not change or remove without starting a new thread.''Suikoden V'' is set five years before the events of ''VideoGame/SuikodenI'', and chronicles a period of great internal strife in the Queendom of Falena. Though technically a monarchy, the aristocracy holds so much power within Falena that their squabbles and power-plays threaten to de-stablise the whole country. Complicating matters is the presence of the Sun Rune, [[ArtifactOfDoom an royal artifact of apocalyptic power]] and one of the 27 True Runes in the world of ''Suikoden''. Years ago, Queen Arshtat bound the Sun Rune to herself to prevent it from falling into the wrong hands, but now [[WithGreatPowerComesGreatInsanity she is slowly succumbing to its malevolent influence]] and threatening to unleash a great disaster upon the world.The PlayerCharacter is the [[HelloInsertNameHere Prince of Falena]], an unimportant figurehead who is not in line to the throne. That is, until a coup d'état forces him out of Falena and into hiding. With his little sister forced to act as the head of a puppet government, it's up to the scrappy royal-in-exile to step out of the shadow of those who would manipulate him for their own ends and gather an army to take back his homeland.The game is filled with {{Continuity Nod}}s and {{Shout Out}}s to ''VideoGame/SuikodenI'' and especially ''VideoGame/SuikodenII'', in a deliberate attempt to get back to the series' roots.----!!''Suikoden V'' provides examples of:* AbandonedByTheCavalry: [[spoiler: The Dragon Cavalry refuse to help the Prince because the Godwins are holding their eggs hostage. You can save the eggs, or you can hold out until Craig decides to [[CrowningMomentOfAwesome damn the torpedoes and help anyway.]]]]* ActionMom: Kisara* AdaptationExpansion: The manga, due to not being as bound to the prince's POV, involves a lot more exploration of the characters. Amongst other things it follows the point of view of the Godwins [[spoiler:during their coup d'etat, including Lord Godwin considering his uprising DirtyBusiness and especially employing his wife's murderers.]]* AffablyEvil: Gizel Godwin. Bahram Luger and Dilber Novum could count if their "evilness" wasn't... debatable.* AlasPoorVillain: There are several examples:** During the Second Battle of Doraat: [[spoiler:Bahram Luger launches a suicide attack on the Dahak to prove that his respect for his mentor and enemy Raja is not holding him back. After Luger gets his ass kicked, Raja has a rather sad chat with her dying student where she tells him that he did well.]]** During the Battle of Stormfist: [[spoiler:Dilber Novum dies defending a castle that now has little strategic significance. When the party asks him why he did it, he explains that he was defending the grave of Lady Godwin, Novum's best friend's wife.]]** During the Battle of Sol-Falena:*** [[spoiler:Sialeeds sacrifices herself to prevent the Godwins from using the Sun Rune from wiping out the party. She then lies to the Prince about her chances to recover so he isn't distracted by her death during the rest of the battle.]]*** [[spoiler:Gizel Godwin remains in Sol Falena even after it has become clear that the city is going to fall because he feels that it is his duty as Commander of the Queen's Knights. When the Prince confronts him, Gizel admits that all the Godwins have done is harm Falena. He then challenges the Prince to a duel, with the obvious intent of getting himself killed so he can join Sialeeds in death. As he dies, Gizel compliments Lym and says that his one regret is not being able to see what kind of Queen she will become.]]* AllLoveIsUnrequited: Roy is in love with Lyon, while Faylen pines over him, while Lyon has feelings for her charge the Prince. Whether or not any of it gets resolved is all up to the ending the player gets.** Gizel states outright he used to love Sialeeds before their betrothal was broken by the SuccessionCrisis. It's heavily implied he still does, [[spoiler:given that he allows her to more or less pursue her own agenda after her 'defection'.]] * AnInteriorDesignerIsYou: Randomly acquired potted plants and paintings gotten from [[ImpossibleItemDrop enemies]] can be used to decorate sections of your castle.* AntiVillain: Bahram Luger didn't want bloodshed, and most certainly didn't want to fight his old mentor Raja. A shame he was too damn loyal to defect.* AnyoneCanDie: Well just about, on the battlefield. Or off depending on your decisions.* AtonementDetective: [[spoiler: Oboro and his team.]]* AxCrazy: Childerich* AsskickingEqualsAuthority: If a participant of the Sacred Games wins, they get to marry the queen of Falena and become the commander of the Queen's Guard. Usually it's subverted because most participants are nobles who have gladiators to do the fighting for them, but Ferid plays it completely straight.* AuthorityEqualsAsskicking: The prince is among the best fighters in the game who surpasses some of his elite bodyguards, both in and out of cutscenes, even though nothing was ever expected of him, combat-related or otherwise. Then again, [[BadassFamily his whole paternal family tree seems to be like that.]]** Some funny lines are spoken by opponents who learn this the hard way. Something along the lines of "I thought this guy was supposed to be a pushover!"** Subverted with Gizel Godwin who, though not incompetent, has just average skills regardless of his rank.* BaldOfEvil: Marscal Godwin* BadassGrandpa: Raja, the retired navy admiral, is still the best at her job and proves it by thoroughly crushing her ex-disciples in open combat.** He doesn't get to do much on screen, but Skald Egan certainly has a reputation for being exactly this. From what you can see of his descendants [[BadassFamily it's hereditary]].* BareFistedMonk: Nikea, Shoon* BaseOnWheels: Raftfleet is a town made of interconnected boats. Since Falena is full of rivers, they are effectively a mobile town and you find them in different places throughout the game.* BattleBoomerang: Faylen's weapon is a big metal three winged boomerang; Sialeeds and Sharmitsa's weapons are also classified as boomerangs, although they'd more accurately be described as chakrams.* TheBattleDidntCount: If you do win the not-quite HopelessBossFight at the start against [[spoiler:Childerich and Dolph]], they just get up completely unharmed.* BattleThemeMusic: When facing RandomEncounters, having certain characters in your active party would change the battle music. Having the conductor would change it to a stirring orchestral piece, having the rock star would invoke an ''Ys''-style heavy metal remix, and having the flutist would change it to a flute-heavy arrangement.* BigEater: Nikea; she goes around entering tournaments just to support her appetite.* BigScrewedUpFamily: The members of the Falenan royal family ''you get to see'' are all very nice people. You don't get to see the others because they are all dead, thanks to struggle for power that gave the resident MurderInc plenty of jobs from all sides. Several [=NPCs=] repeatedly note how remarkably morally upstanding Arshtat and Sialeeds are compared to her predecessors.* {{Bishounen}}: The Prince, Rahal, and Roy, notably.* BlindingBangs: Shigure. [[spoiler:Given the trend, he may have MonochromaticEyes behind that mop of hair.]]* BodyguardBetrayal: Georg is accused of this; straighter examples are [[spoiler: Alenia and Zahhak.]]* BodyguardCrush: Lyon towards the Prince.** In an [[FuroScene optional scene]], Dinn assumes that Isato and Mathias feel the same way toward their charges. [[spoiler: They gently correct him.]]*** Mathias looks like a straight example at first, as he is from Warrior's Village, and the men of that village are famous for naming their signature weapon after the person they care about the most, and his weapon is named Isabel. Of course, that doesn't mean he loves her 'romantically', only that he has dedicated himself to her service above all else.** There's also Lelei's [[LesYay crush on her "Lady," Lucretia Merces]]. If you have Oboro dig into her past, he comes up with the following:--->'''Oboro''': "Lelei used to be a guard at Agate Prison, but she fell for Lucretia's pretty -- I MEAN, she was concerned about Lucretia, as she came with her. Now she's kind of Lucretia's...assistant."* BoisterousBruiser: Several. Ferid initially comes off as the type, but resident [[TheBigGuy big guy]] Boz Wilde takes up the part for most of the game.* BoxedCrook: Several. One example is Roy, who is a dead ringer for Prince Freyjadour. He was hired by the oafish fop [[spoiler: Euram Barows]] to sully the Prince's name. Should the player choose to spare Roy's life, he will be recruited as a star of destiny. Later in the game, he serves as a body double wearing his "Prince" disguise.* BreakTheCutie: Part of Richard's backstory. His father was an abusive son of a bitch, up until Mueller killed him and all but adopted the boy.* BrilliantButLazy: Shigure. LightningBruiser, skilled detective, and constantly complaining slacker. [[CatchPhrase What a pain...]]* BrotherhoodOfFunnyHats: Sisterhood, in this case. Nifsara and Linfa form a secret society dedicated to protecting pretty boys: the Secret Alliance for the Protection of Pretty Hunks in Real Endangerment ([[FunWithAcronyms SAPPHIRE]]). Their motto is: "To observe! To protect! To observe some more!"* ButThouMust: Averted in several places, leading to [[NonstandardGameOver Nonstandard Game Overs]] in most instances.* CantHoldHisLiquor: Belcoot, of all people. [[LampshadeHanging Lampshaded]] by Sialeeds and Georg that they wonder if the guy is REALLY from Kanakan, a place well known for its liquor. [[spoiler:He's not. He's actually a native Falenan, who escaped slavery and then was trained to become a master swordsman in Kanakan.]]* CatchPhrase: Mathias usually finishes sentences about your enemies by describing how he will exact final retribution to said enemy and deposit their loathsome corpse into nearby swamps, bogs, rivers, or other bodies of water. It's almost a RunningGag.** Shigure's is "what a pain...".** And who can forget Richard reciting Mueller's name as a full sentence?* ChekhovsGun: The sewers of Stormfist.* ChekhovsBoomerang: Those sluice gates have more than one use.* TheChessmaster: Lucretia Merces. In every conceivable way. She's pretty much an gender-flipped {{Expy}} of [[RomanceOfTheThreeKingdoms Zhuge Liang]], right down to the feather fan.* ChickMagnet: The Prince of Falena* ChivalrousPervert: Gavaya, he isn't really all that much of a pervert either, though he comes off as creepy due to his borderline {{Gonk}} status.** More traditionally, Kyle displays interest on mostly everything resembling a female. Whether his chivalrous side depends entirely on his own conscience or is partly due to the fact that he's usually too busy/somewhere else when you get to meet women is up for debate.* CloudCuckoolander: Miakis, although she becomes more serious later and fits the GenkiGirl archetype more.* CoolBoat[=/=]BaseOnWheels: Raftfleet is basically a floating city formed from various individual ships that lash themselves together whenever they make port. It changes location several times throughout the game.* CoolOldGuy: Galleon, Bahram, Dilber* CoolOldLady: Raja* CrutchCharacter: Georg. He differs from the usual Crutch in that he remains a GameBreaker throughout the entire game (which is why he gets PutOnABus until late in the game, whereupon he's still overpowered, but not ludicrously so). Physically, at least. His defense against magic is severely lacking.** Sialeeds – who starts out as a powerful long-ranged fighter and mage – also qualifies, with only one rune slot and an irremovable Wind Rune. [[spoiler:Possibly a subtle way to discourage the player from being too dependent on her, so her FaceHeelTurn later in the game won't cripple your party.]]* CueTheSun: Which can actually be used as [[KillSat an attack]].* DarkSkinnedBlonde: Lucretia.* DeadpanSnarker: Sialeeds is pretty good at this, as is Shigure. Miakis, meanwhile, is more of a [[GenkiGirl Genki]] [[DeadpanSnarker Snarker]].* DeathIsCheap: [[spoiler:If [[MysteriousWaif Eresh]] gets killed in a war battle, Jeane sends the Prince a letter implying that she will eventually get better. The player will still be prevented from getting the best ending though.]]* DeliberateValuesDissonance:** Lymsleia is only ten years old, but because she's the queen's only daughter, the right of succession naturally falls to her once Arshtat dies.** Because Falena can only be ruled by a queen, princes are considered functionally useless and aren't held in particularly high regard.** The queen's husband is decided by whoever wins the Sacred Games. And it's considered perfectly acceptable for adult men to fight for the hand of a future queen who's still a child.** The Dragon Cavalry is very patriarchal, especially compared to the rest of Falena (or even the Suikoden world in general). Not only are women not allowed to be Dragon Riders, they're not even permitted to set foot into their training camp in Gordius.* DesignStudentsOrgasm: In-universe: Haud Village was formed by artists commissioned by Salum Barows to design a town of their own. The result: a place chock full of abstract/surrealist artworks, music inspired by the likes of Arnold Schoenberg and Music/JohnCage, and citizens that talk like [[Franchise/StarWars Yoda]].* {{Determinator}}: Nakula* DistractedByTheSexy: [[spoiler:[[WholesomeCrossdresser Rahal, who is indistinguishable from his sister when in drag]]. Even Roog admits that [[StupidSexyFlanders he COULD get distracted]].]]* DragonRider: The Feitas Dragon Cavalry.* DrillSergeantNasty: Mueller will smack his subordinates upside the head with an iron rod if they screw around. Richard sees him as more of a SergeantRock.* DudeLooksLikeALady: The Prince himself. He looks feminine no matter how he dresses, but the costume with no sleeves, long gloves, some kind of kilt and tights doesn't help. Oddly enough, someone compliments him on how masculine his new outfit makes him look. Falena must have different ideas of masculinity. * EarnYourHappyEnding* EeriePaleSkinnedBrunette: Zerase; one of the bath scenes revolves around this.* [[EmotionlessGirl Emotionless Guy]]: Dolph. [[spoiler:Subverted when it turns out that he is a BloodKnight whose cannot emote due to the drugs he uses to increase his power.]]* EvilPlan: The plot is set in motion by [[spoiler: Marscal Godwin attempting to steal the Sun Rune]] and the civil war is set in motion by Gizel Godwin's bid for Lymsleia's hand in marriage. The Godwin goal is strengthening Falena through conquest of the neighboring lands. * {{Expy}}:** Lucretica Merces is basically a hot female [[DarkSkinnedBlond Karayan]] version of Zhuge Liang.** Childerich is not at all supposed to remind us of [[VideoGame/SuikodenII Luca Blight]], or more specifically, his sword arm-happiness. Though he lacks Luca's imposing build and [[RasputinianDeath isn't nearly as hard to kill]].** Shoon looks a little like a [[Manga/SaintSeiya Seiya]].** Shigure channels [[Manga/{{Naruto}} Shikamaru]] just a bit...---> What a pain...* ExpositoryHairstyleChange: Lady Sialeeds hair turns white after her [[spoiler: FaceHeelTurn, in the process. It's apparently her natural hair color, which makes sense given that all her blood relatives (save Lym) all have silver-white hair.]]* EyepatchOfPower: Worn by Georg Prime. [[spoiler: He's got a normal eye under it.]]* FantasticRacism: The elves of Alseid hate "barbarous humans" and say "[[HiddenElfVillage screw the world]]"; the Beavers of Beaver Lodge don't mind humans but are kind of "[[ApatheticCitizens eeeeh...]]" about getting involved in the whole war thing; [[spoiler: the Godwins want to engage in [[KillEmAll Fantastic]] ''[[KillEmAll Genocide]]'', which convinced the latter to take up arms.]]* FantasyKitchenSink* FishingMinigame: Run by Subala, who turns it into a four-way contest between the Prince, herself, Logg and Lun. Complete with {{Trash Talk}}ing and boat-ramming. (Sadly, Lyon does not provide {{Trash Talk}}ing on [[HeroicMime the prince's]] behalf.)* FiveBadBand: The Godwins** BigBad: Marscal Godwin** TheDragon: Dolph** [[EvilGenius The Evil Genius]]: Gizel Godwin** TheBrute: Childerich, although most of the Godwin generals have elements of this as well** TheDarkChick: [[spoiler: Sialeeds]]* FiveManBand: The party with the CombinationAttack Falena's Finest** TheLeader: The Prince** TheLancer: Georg** TheSmartGuy: Kyle** TheBigGuy: Galleon** TheChick: Lyon or Miakis (they're not in the group at the same time [[spoiler: because of Lyon's critical injury at one point...but after Lyon recovers, Miakis would end up as the SixthRanger by default.]]* {{Foil}}: The Prince and Lyon are complementary to each other, representing "Dawn" (the Prince) and "Twilight" (Lyon). This ties in with the game's sun motif. [[spoiler: It is also no coincidence that they become the bearers of the Dawn and Twilight Runes, respectively.]]* ForGreatJustice: The [[KnightInShiningArmor Maximillian Knights']] one and only raison d'être. Their philosophy shows them to have HiddenDepths, however, as they consider their killing of evildoers as a crime in itself.* FriendlySniper: Cathari* FuroScene: Taking the right people into the baths triggers {{Subtext}}-laden scenes, for all your HoYay / LesYay / [[HilarityEnsues Hilarity Ensuing]] needs.* TheGadfly: Miakis, who, among many other things, tries to get the Prince to ruin Lym's engagement ceremony.* GambitPileup: Phew. Trying to explain this is already staggering. Though the ultimate winner is [[spoiler: Sialeeds who bears EVERYTHING and kills Salum Barows.]] Need proof? Talk to Kyle [[spoiler: in the graveyard at your castle, not Sun Palace, after you win the Sun Palace war]]. Also [[spoiler: Gizel does tell you when you kill him in a [[DuelBoss duel]] that Sialeeds won.]]** It doesn't help that this is Gizel Godwin's preferred method of scheming: he sets multiple plans in motion and just sits back to see what takes root. At one point his father warns him about this kind of reckless behaviour, pointing out that his failed plans have only stoked dissent against him and advising him to be more conservative and careful in his machinations. [[spoiler:Gizel ignores this advice even after seizing the queendom, which only helps the Prince find allies]].* GambitRoulette: Lucretia's strategic skills border on precognition.** Gizel actually prefers this sort of plot, comparing it to throwing a bunch of seeds onto a field and seeing what bears fruit. It's lampshaded by his father, who tells him to intrigue decisively, if he's going to do so at all.*** [[spoiler: Worth noting that his machinations during the Sacred Games were indirectly responsible for allowing the Prince to escape during the Coup. It also sows the seeds to make him a badass.]]* GameplayAndStoryIntegration: Some default runes are explicitly used by the holder in several cutscenes, namely:** Kyle used Breath of Ice, a Water Rune spell, as a smokescreen to escape the [[spoiler: Nether Gate from the Sun Palace]].** Sialeeds used her Wind Rune in similar ways when she [[spoiler: prevents Lyms from being kidnapped by the Prince]].* GameplayAndStorySegregation: The Prince acquires the spell "First Light" as part of a side quest to heal Lyon. That spell can be used in battle.* GenkiGirl: Nikea. There's also Lu, who can't seem to speak without using nicknames and sound effects.* GoodIsNotNice: Zerase is a bit of a bitch in the early parts of the game. [[spoiler: She starts to get nicer once she realize you may actually be worthy of the Dawn Rune.]]* GuideDangIt: The 108 Stars of Destiny can be very annoying to recruit, not to mention their tendency to be [[PermanentlyMissableContent unobtainable past a certain point]]:** Oboro, along with [[spoiler:Sagiri and Nakula]], among others.** Cornelio, who has a VERY brief window of opportunity to be recruited (with no build-up to him at all, and no indication of when you're able to get him), and practically everyone in Lunas, as even getting back in requires one obscure support character that few people would ever use otherwise (who in fact might be considered a GuideDangIt himself).** Josephine, who you can either recruit very early in the game or really, really late [[spoiler:(by talking to her with either Sialeeds or Shula Valya in your party)]].** Egbert. You have to endure an extremely long speech from him at the lowest text scroll speed. [[spoiler:If you press X even once during the speech (the button that would usually let you skip the text) then he will refuse to join until you leave the cave and try again. This is not even hinted at.]]* GunsAreWorthless: {{Lampshaded}} when a member of the Howling Voice Guild -- and the game's only gun wielder -- explains that rifles are inferior to the bow-and-arrow because of the cost, difficulty to manufacture and reduced accuracy: however, they ''are'' useful as an intimidation tactic. She then zizags this trope: in the very same scene where the rifle user explains the limitations of rifles, she then adds that those who are aware of their limitations can work around them, and everyone who are given rifles ''knows''. Leaving one arrogant elf and a certain lady samurai very upset that they'd just been toyed with.* HappilyMarried: A few examples, but most notably Arshtat and Ferid.* HeroicBSOD: Interestingly, the Prince has one (despite his HeroicMime status). He goes through a large amount of trauma throughout the story, but he finally cracks [[spoiler: after the events of The New Queen's Campaign: Sialeeds betrays him and Lyon nearly dies from a stab wound.]] In a scene after the above spoiler, Luserina tries to reach out and comfort him. After a moment, he simply turns around and walks off; the player is not even given the option to respond (which would normally happen). Pretty powerful response for a silent protagonist.* HeroicMime: The Prince. There was one sequence where it seemed that this is averted, but it's [[spoiler: Roy in disguise]]. As is usual with the ''VideoGame/{{Suikoden}}'' series, the hero does talk, but only when you're given dialogue options. Instead of a simple Yes/No option, the player is given choices of the actual lines the hero will be saying. Though unlike the other characters, the Prince doesn't have a voice actor ''speaking'' the lines. And given that those dialogue choices are usually only given at key moments, with Lyon [[spoiler: (or, when she's incapacitated, Miakis)]] doing most of the speaking for him, it's clear that the Prince wouldn't be a very talkative guy even if we did hear him.* HeroicComedicSociopath: Nakula, Mathias may also count given his...hobby of killing enemies and throwing them into water.* HeroWithBadPublicity: Georg. [[spoiler: He eventually leaves the country due to it.]]* HiddenElfVillage: Alseid. [[spoiler: You can't even ''visit'' it.]]* HighlyVisibleNinja: {{Subverted}} with Shigure and Sagiri, who are never even called ninjas, but fight with ninja weaponry and [[spoiler: were once assassins for Nether Gate]].** [[PlayingWithATrope Played with]] via Raven, a loud, obnoxious thief, who dresses like a ninja and [[spoiler: whose Raven Rune renders him nigh-untouchable so long as he's indoors and it's dark enough.]]* TheHighQueen: Queen Arshtat of the Queendom of Falena fits this trope rather well, at least while at court, and ''especially'' while being influenced by the Sun Rune.* HopelessSuitor: Poor Gavaya.* HopeSpot: The entirety of the Sacred Games is full of these. [[spoiler:Hey, the Godwins rescue you from certain death by shipwreck! They might not be plotting against the Queen after all! Well, actually, yes they are, as shown by a cutscene. But wait, they still have to win the Sacred Games to put their plan into action, and the Barows family gladiator is a much better fighter than theirs! Nope, the Godwins frame said gladiator as being an Armes spy and get him disqualified. But wait, a Dark Horse foreigner comes out of nowhere and gets to the semifinals! He's also a better fighter than the Godwin's, to boot. Too bad the Godwins enact a plot to drug him so their gladiator wins the tournament, even after you thwart their first attempt to get him out of the way.]]* HotBlooded:-->'''Boz Wilde:''' Sometimes justice is just a pretty word, other times it's three feet of steel to the face.* HomoeroticSubtext: Lucretia gets Lelei and Cathari; Miakis gets {{Subtext}} with her charge, the Princess Lymsleia; then there's Richard's slavish devotion towards Mueller...Most all of this is lampshaded at some point, usually by Oboro.** Roog and Rahal...Oh, the friendships that must bloom in a town that prohibits women. It doesn't help that Rahal is, in Roog's own words, "disturbingly attractive."*** On Roog, there are some hints in the game that he has the hots for Miakis, who's just happy to push the button.* HumiliationConga: A massive one gets trotted out for [[spoiler: Lord Barows and Euram]] -- couldn't have happened to a nicer SmugSnake!** There's also [[spoiler: Childerich's battle after he takes over your castle. It's probably one of the easiest campaign battles in the game.]]* ImprobableWeaponUser: Loads of 'em. Most notably Viki, whose staff is supposed to be her weapon, yet she attacks by... randomly teleporting and dropping stuff on the enemy.** A curious example is the Prince himself, who uses a slightly-too-thick but otherwise real three-section staff... except for the fact that its middle section is somehow split in two for easier carrying. The method of assembling displayed in the artbook makes one wonder just how skilled the prince is to be able to pull it out and piece it together in a single motion every battle. Not to mention his skills in turning it into a staff and back at a moment's notice. And somehow Roy is able to do the same with his copy of the Prince's weapon, despite lacking the Prince's years of practice.* IncestSubtext: Miakis tells Lym that if the Prince wins, she'll have to marry him. Miakis has a really wild sense of humor. Then Lym attacks the Prince for winning his ''ceremonial'' match, out of fear that they'll have to marry. Third, in the best ending, the prince [[spoiler: becomes Commander of the Queen's Knights, a position normally reserved for the Queen's husband.]] [[note]] All the remaining knights were already working for him anyway, and as the rebel army's general, there was no better candidate at the time. This sends a message that the corrupt political system in Falena is changing. [[/note]]* IneffectualSympatheticVillain: Euram Barows, until [[spoiler: his optional HeelFaceTurn.]]* IntrepidReporter: Taylor* ItsPronouncedTroPAY: The English dub wierdly pronounces Georg Prime (normally pronounced Gay-org) as George.* JerkAss: Killey. Cornelio, until you get his [=DoReMi=] elves back. He'll still refer to everyone else as mediocrity, though.* JerkWithAHeartOfGold: Roy, following his CharacterDevelopment.* KilledOffForReal: Roy can end up like this, [[spoiler: if you stubbornly choose to defend your castle instead of abandoning it.]] This is not recommended, [[spoiler: because his death bars you from getting the best ending.]]** [[spoiler:Faylon and Faylen]], too, if you wait too long to recruit them.** In the LeaveHimToMe entry below, if the characters you choose lost the duel, they also end up like this.* KillerRabbit: A type of RandomEncounter enemies that have been in the series since the first game are literally called Killer Rabbits/Bunnies, which happen to be fluffy little black rabbits... wielding throwing-axes.** The beavers also qualify. They're half your size, furry, and wield an ImprovisedWeapon each, but get five of them together and they have an attack that can cause instant death. Oh, and their troops literally eat up enemy ships. As the official guide puts it, beaver troops turn the naval component of the usual rock/paper/scissors to "Beaver smashes rock, beaver shreds paper, and beaver breaks scissors." [[GameBreaker That's a pretty accurate description.]] The only thing keeping them from breaking the game wide open is that they can only use a limited number of "Gnaw" attacks on enemy ships.* KillSat: The Sun Rune's ultimate power, once unleashed, can burn an entire county with a column of light from the sky.* KnightInSourArmor: Georg Prime, though he's pretty nice. He just prefers to dispense with formalities.* LargeHam: Barring Luserina, the Barows family are all deliciously hammy.* LateArrivalSpoiler: The revelation that [[spoiler:Georg killed Arshtat]] is treated as a WhamEpisode very late in the game...but anyone who's played ''VideoGame/SuikodenII'' and made use of [[HardboiledDetective Richmond]]'s services in it will have already figured that out. The only mystery was how and why it happened. [[spoiler:It turns out that Arshtat and Ferid had ordered Georg to do so if Arshtat ever completely lost control of the Sun Rune.]]* LauncherOfAThousandShips: Lymsleia, InUniverse. Partly justified by the fact that she's a princess and her husband will sit the throne beside her, but several individuals seem to actually desire her, either in text or subtext.* LeaveHimToMe: Take the right people along when you finally face off with Childerich, you get to see what happens when several people try to claim this right all at once. Specifically, it's [[spoiler:Belcoot, Zegai, and Richard -- in this order of priority -- who will make the offer; those who entered the Sacred Games]].* LimaSyndrome: It's implied Lelei fell for Lucretia while [[spoiler: guarding her cell]]. [[spoiler: Cius]] also qualifies, as he was a hard-lined RulesLawyer, and yet [[spoiler: he broke the rules to keep Lucretia informed, and ultimately broke her out of prison.]]* LoadsAndLoadsOfCharacters: [[CaptainObvious It's Suikoden, after all.]]* LoadsAndLoadsOfLoading: If there is one thing fans complain about this game, it's that the loading times take forever.* LostTechnology: Rune Cannons from Suikoden IV are now a lost art, and in fact you blow up the last of them for being "too powerful".* MagicAntidote: Averted -- The Hero's Rune has the power to keep Lyon from dying, but she still has to spend a long time in bed recovering from the poison. [[spoiler: In fact, it's possible for her to die from the wound you've supposedly taken care of if you didn't recruit all characters.]]* MagikarpPower: [[spoiler: Roy isn't a joke character, per se, but he does get the skill Royal Paradise which boosts all stats (including combat and magic) considerably and raise it up to A. Also, with the availability of two Runes at later levels makes him rather powerful indeed. Note that the Royal Paradise skill has only one other character who can use it - [[TheRival The Prince]]. Heck, him being an almost perfect carbon-copy of the main character should tell you something.]]* MamaBear: You don't want to insult or threaten Arshtat's family. You ''really'' don't. On a similar but less dangerous note, don't pull anything around Sialeeds either, because it ''will'' backfire on you.* MasterSwordsman: Richard is called the Blade Master, and it's a justified moniker.* MistakenForAnImposter: [[spoiler: Euram thinks the Prince he's facing is the fake Prince he had hired.]]* MonochromaticEyes: Dolph has dull brown, emotionless eyes. Two other characters with similarly "flat" eyes are [[spoiler: Oboro and Sagiri, hinting at the connection between all three.]]* MonsterProtectionRacket: [[spoiler: Euram]] hires bandits led by a lookalike of the Prince so that he can beat them and look awesome.* MultipleEndings: Aside from the [[OneHundredAndEight 108 Stars]] endings (and yes, there's a few variations on that!), and the not-so-good endings where the player didn't [[GuideDangIt track everyone down]], there are several premature endings the player can stumble across.* MurderInc: Nether Gate. [[spoiler: Comes complete with ''[[FourIsDeath four]]'' defectors who can join your party.]]* MyMasterRightOrWrong: Galleon in a nutshell. He continues to work for the monarch that reduced his hometown to a desert. Dilber and Luger also suffer from this.* MysteriousWaif: Eresh* MysticalWhiteHair: The Prince. He is chosen by a rune (magical properties) and is a good commander despite his young age. * MythologyGag: The alternate outfits worn by the Prince, Lyon, and Kyle during certain sections of the plot are meant to invoke the outfits worn by [=McDohl=], Cleo, and Viktor in [[VideoGame/SuikodenI the original game]]. You also get to go to an [[VideoGame/SuikodenIV Island Nations]] city and fight a battle there with a remix of ''VideoGame/SuikodenIV'''s battle soundtrack. Not to mention the recurring characters.* NonIdleRich: Luserina Barows, a girl born in a dynasty of {{Upper Class Twit}}s who lacks any of her relatives' haughtiness and actually performs the majority of the administrative business of their house.** Sialeeds, the queen Arshtat's sister, officially tasked with [[GentlemanSnarker absolutely nothing]], served as a sort of counter-intelligence/micromanaging problem-solver for her sister, and has no problem [[LadyOfWar engaging in combat herself]]. Arshtat probably intended for the prince to become this as well, until [[CallToAdventure the plot just went and did the job for her]]. [[spoiler: [[TheCallKnowsWhereYouLive By doing her in.]]]]** There's also [[spoiler: Josephine, who's actually Shula's sister Yuma, who came to Haud in search of... ''culture''. Despite her questionable tastes, though, she's surprisingly effective in battle and you'll probably get a lot of mileage out of her magic skills during the early war battles.]]* NotBloodSiblings: Lyon and the prince, who were brought up together as lord and bodyguard.* NotSoHarmlessVillain: [[spoiler:The jovial and seemingly scatterbrained Salum Barows is revealed to be the mastermind behind the theft of the Dawn Rune, and by extension, the Lordlake incident.]]** Lym is pretty sharp and has more political and people-smarts than you would expect from a ten-year-old girl.** The Prince himself falls under this as well. As noted above, not many really expected the Prince to be a major player in the game's storyline; or that he was a formidable warrior and capable leader. Most of it is due to princes being generally seen as royal deadweights in the matriarchal Falenan tradition.* ObfuscatingStupidity: [[spoiler: Lord Barows]] and Skald Egan.** Oboro also does this; he's a detective who downplays his real talents... [[spoiler: and used to gather intelligence for Nether Gate.]]* OddFriendship: Fun loving, lecherous and hammy mercenary captain Wilhelm, and his stern, dour right hand man Mueller.* OlderThanTheyLook: Fuyo, who's all PuniPlush, big pigtails and big skirts.* TheOnlyOneAllowedToDefeatYou: Nakula has this towards Sagiri, and all of Nether Gate actually. Inverted with Raven, who feels that Oboro is The Only One Allowed To Catch Me.* OnlySaneMan: At times, Shigure openly questions the sanity of his coworkers in the Oboro Detective Agency. Said complaints are generally met with much amusement by said coworkers. [[CatchPhrase What a pain...]]* PapaWolf: More like "Brother Wolf"; Shigure may be lazy, and constantly complain about his adoptive family, but '''don't threaten them'''.** Could also be said about Georg towards the prince, Lym and Lyon.* PaperThinDisguise: [[spoiler:Faylen and Faylon]] tried to pull this to impersonate [[spoiler:Lyon and Georg]], although it didn't work since [[spoiler:Roy laughed off at Faylen's disguise, and Faylon ripped out the costume when he tried it on]].* PettingZooPeople: [[ExactlyWhatItSaysOnTheTin Beavers]]* PowerAtAPrice: Raging Nostrum. [[spoiler:A PsychoSerum developed by [[MurderInc Nether Gate]] that sends the user into a UnstoppableRage, but [[DeadlyUpgrade they die afterwards]].]]** The Sun Rune also qualifies, the ability to utterly decimates one's foes comes at the cost of one's sanity eroding away.* PrecisionGuidedBoomerang: Sialeeds and Sharmista's weapons come back despite the fact that their weapons are not boomerangs.* {{Precursors}}: The Sindar are the staple ancient civilization of Suikoden, having left heaps of [[RagnarokProofing still functioning]] [[LostTechnology cryptic devices and ruins]] all over.** The ancient Armes Dynasty also [[AndManGrewProud got themselves wiped clean]] with the same MacGuffin that triggers most of the conflict. Their stuff isn't quite as durable.* PrivateDetective: The Oboro Detective Agency, composed of three detectives, a plump secretary and a well trained mouse. [[spoiler:Said three detectives are also former assassins.]]* PrivateMilitaryContractors: The Lindwurm mercenary brigade.* PsychoForHire: Childerich.* RandomEncounter: Not quite high as in ''VideoGame/SuikodenIV'', but still... Even in the very first dungeon, you won't leave it without at least ten random encounters while getting two mediocre treasures.* RantInducingSlight: Egbert Aethelbald, who will always quickly descend to ranting about '''FILTHY GODWIN DEVILS!!!!''' in mere seconds.* RebelliousPrincess: [[spoiler:Yuma Valya, a SpoiledBrat version who fled to Falena because she saw New Armes as "uncultured" and she was tired of living in her brother Shula's shadow She goes by the assumed name Josephine...]]%% ** Princess Lymsleia.* RedOniBlueOni: Roog and Rahal. Their mounts even share the color scheme, if not the dynamic.* RedundantResearcher: Zweig, Lorelai and Killey.* RelationshipValues: Many of the scenes and choices the Prince can make don't have much of an effect on narrative, but it can build up relationships with other characters if they like your answers. Gameplay-wise, it can lead to unite attacks being more powerful. Story-wise, it can affect the ending and other scenes in the game. [[spoiler: Having a high relationship with Lymsleia gives a few extra scenes, and it is needed in addition to having all 108 Stars for one ending, and a low relationship value with Lyon gives the worst ending.]]* RestrainingBolt: The Sun Rune, worn on the head, is meant to be worn along with the Dawn Rune and the Twilight rune (on either hand) in order to keep its power in check and prevent the wielder from going insane. Unfortunately, Arshtat has access to neither when she takes up the Sun Rune.%%* RevengeBeforeReason: Nakula.* RoyalsWhoActuallyDoSomething: The Prince is a male royal in a country where only females inherit the throne, so nobody expected him to do anything at all. Then he goes and becomes the leader of the rebel army. This is played for contrast with him and his father Ferid. The previous commanders, usually noble-born who simply hired someone to earn their position for them, were very rarely if ever trained as field commanders, much less fighters, usually delegating the job to someone else. Ferid, and later the prince, gain a lot of popularity precisely for being RoyalsWhoActuallyDoSomething.* RunningGag: A rare aversion. This is the only game where there's no funny fake name of Schtolteheim Reinbach III.* SecretProjectRefugeeFamily: [[spoiler: The Oboro Detective Agency]]* ShipTease: ** Early in the game, there's a lot of {{Subtext}} between [[BrotherSisterIncest the prince and Lymsleia]], including [[SleepCute sleeping in the same bed at one point]].** The manga teases the prince with Luserina Barows.** There's also Roog and Miakis, AmazonChaser style.* ShootTheDog: [[spoiler: Georg killed Arshtat because she had finally gone over the edge and was about to nuke the entire country.]]* ShoutOut:** [[Creator/HPLovecraft Alhazred]], and his weapons are all named for the different "translations" of the [[TomeOfEldritchLore Necronomicon]].** [[PhantomThief Raven]]'s weapon are Rook, [[Creator/EdgarAllanPoe Carrion Crow, and Nevermore]]** Oboro mentioned that Nakula has a [[Myth/HinduMythology twin brother]] in Armes. Like his name sake, the twin brothers of Pandava.%%* SiblingYinYang: The prince and Princess Lymsleia; Euram and Luserina Barows; Faylon and Faylen.* SmallGirlBigGun: Faylen and her boomerang; Lu and her ''quadruple crossbow''...* SmugSnake: Salum Barows.* SilkHidingSteel: Luserina Barows. She's sweet and graceful and apparently stays home while her dad and brother politic in the capital. However, if you talk around Rainwall, you'll find out that ''she'' is the one running the place. She also takes part in the coming battles as 'morale', in other words, encouraging them to victory.* SpareToTheThrone: A non-royal example with the House of Barows. After his older brother Hiram was assassinated during the bloody Succession Conflict, Euram was thrust into the role of his father's heir, as well as dealing with his mother's extended [[DespairEventHorizon BSOD]]. This stress of this helps shape him into the irritating {{Epic Fail}}ing UpperClassTwit everyone has to deal with during the events of the game, until CharacterDevelopment enables him to grow out of it.* StealthHiBye: Dolph, being a ninja, appears from nowhere all the time.* StepfordSmiler: A disturbing example can be found in [[spoiler:Sagiri, a former Nether Gate assassin trained to smile while she killed her targets. It's her one and only expression. The people closest to her are actually waiting [[TearJerker for the day she cries]].]]* TheStrategist: Lucretia Merces, particularly notable for being the first character to play this role in the series not related to the Silverbergs in any form.* StreetUrchin: Roy, Faylen, and Faylon.* {{Stripperific}}: Many examples, but the biggest offenders are Jeane (as usual), Nikea, Urda, Nifsara, and Faylen.* SummonMagic: The 'Pale Gate' rune.* SupportingLeader: An interesting and subtle case of this occurs in the very end of the game: In the final dungeon, the heroes split into three parties, with Frey, Lyon, and Zweig each leading one of said parties. However, Georg insists on going with Zweig, and the game makes it quite clear who the ''real'' leader of the party is: Despite Zweig leading the party on the field, it's impossible to put ''Georg'' into the entourage slot; only the leader of a party (usually Frey) [[CantDropTheHero can't be moved from the battle party outside of battle]].* SympatheticMurderBackstory: Lyon reveals [[spoiler:she was a former member of Nether Gate, an assassin's guild in service to Falena's royal family. They took her in while she was still a child and trained her. She was eventually rescued by the prince's father, Ferid, who gave her the name Lyon. She goes on to become the prince's bodyguard as her way of repaying Ferid's kindness.]]* TacticalRockPaperScissors: As usual for the series, both Duels and War Battles function through these. The latter gets a bit more complicated, though.* TeamMom: Fuyo to the Oboro Detectives. Oboro serves as a TeamDad. Together they're a kind of ''de facto'' husband and wife.* ThoseTwoGuys: Rahal and Roog; Logg and his daughter Lun.* TomeOfEldritchLore: The "miraculous book" your character receives in the inn at Yashuna Village by a stranger, [[spoiler:who is later revealed to be Euram Barows, is a cursed tome that brings death to those who possess it.]]* TriangRelations: Type 4 -- [[spoiler:Alenia loves Gizel, who has a ''complicated'' history with Sialeeds; Gizel is aware of Alenia's feelings, but mainly uses them to keep her in line...]]** There's also [[spoiler: Roy, Lyon, and Feylen. Roy has the hots for Lyon, Feylen has the hots for Roy, and Lyon only has eyes for the prince.]]* UnluckyChildhoodFriend: Faylen ''really likes'' Roy, but he's too interested in [[AllLoveIsUnrequited Lyon]] to notice. [[spoiler:Even if he makes his HeroicSacrifice, his last thoughts are of ''Lyon'' while ''Faylen'''s the one who 'gets' to watch him die... ''[[TearJerker Ouch]]''.]]* UpperClassTwit: Euram, through and through.* {{UST}}: ** Lelei and Lucretia may be resolved. Oboro's comments are suggestive but not conclusive. As in, [[MagicalGirlLyricalNanoha Nanoha-level conclusive.]]** Lyon and the Prince. While nothing is directly mentioned about it, there's a lot of subtle subtext pointing towards that they indeed have a more developed relationship then what is known. See for example certain dialogue-less scenes in Lunas.* WarriorPrince: The prince not only directly leads the army in combat, he fights as part of the infantry.* WellIntentionedExtremist: ** The Godwins seek to empower Falena as a nation so that the losses suffered in the bloody civil war several years ago is not repeated. Unfortunately, they try to do this by overthrowing the royal family, reviving a defunct assassin's guild, and [[spoiler:attempting to purge the nation of all nonhumans.]]** [[spoiler: In contrast, we have Sialeeds. She planned to dissolve the bickering Senate and eliminating the two factions in it, probably because of her great hate of what happened with her mom and aunt on the last civil war. And she succeeded. Gizel and Marscal just realized it around the time Sialeeds died. Gizel seems to have been okay with either result; it's explicitly stated that he likes to start conflicts just to see who'll win.]]* WhamLine:--> '''Euram:'''[[spoiler:"Use the Dawn Rune on them!"]]--> '''Sialeeds:''' [[spoiler:"This wasn't part of the plan, Dolph."]]* WhamShot: The scene depicting how Arshtat [[spoiler: was killed]]. It's an even bigger shock when you know that this is something that was referenced in one of Richmond's investigations in ''VideoGame/SuikodenII'', a game that was released '''7 years prior.'''* WholesomeCrossdresser: [[spoiler: Rahal fills out his sister's clothes pretty well. He knows that he's exceptionally beautiful, so he'll make use of that fact in any way possible. He and his sister have been trolling their friends like this for years.]]* WithGreatPowerComesGreatInsanity:** The Sun Rune is one of the strongest of the 27 True Runes, and can cause moments of extreme megalomania in its bearer, as they believe themselves to be a god. Even the kind and loving Arshtat fell victim to this, destroying Lordlake [[spoiler:and almost doing the same to the entire country of Falena]] because of the rune's influence. This is in fact what happened to empire that existed where Falena does long before the game takes place. The ruler who wielded the Sun Rune went mad and annihilated his entire nation overnight. Supposedly having possession of the Dawn and Twilight runes as well prevents this from happening to the wielder of the Sun Rune.** Downplayed by the Raging Nostrum user. Crazed Assassin are assassins that have partaken a special drug that gives the user inhumane strength, but kills them the moment it wears off. It also makes the user lose his mind, like [[spoiler: Childerich]] that's reduced to a mindless monster unable to say anything but "I'll kill you! Kill! Kill...".* TheWomanWearingTheQueenlyMask: Queen Arshtat* XanatosGambit: Lucretia wields one of these masterfully to beat the combined Armes/Godwin army, first feigning defeat to get the enemy armies to occupy the rebel headquarters, flooding the entire thing, then launching a full out assault on the weakened enemy forces. Truly worthy of being an {{Expy}} of [[RomanceOfTheThreeKingdoms Zhuge Liang]]. She really did think of everything. Leaving the castle itself is a good move because they would be surrounded otherwise, and it denies the enemy desperately needed food. Even if the Armes/Godwin army ''didn't'' fall for the trap, they'd still be chasing a fully stocked army with empty bellies and grumbling mouths.* YinYangBomb: The Twilight Rune and the Dawn Rune have an incredibly powerful combination spell that heals the friendly party and damages all enemies at once.%%* YouCantThwartStageOne: * YouFightLikeACow: One-on-one duels are carried out by executing three possible commands that cancel each other by TacticalRockPaperScissors mechanics. How to tell what the enemy is going to do? By their pre-action taunts, of course. While this is a staple of the series, Suikoden V takes it further by adding a time limit to the input so you are in a bit more of a hurry. The catch? Certain characters with MediumAwareness start taking advantage of this rush by making ''feint taunts'' that seem like they'll be one action and change to another by the end of their speech.* YoureInsane: [[spoiler: Lyon says this to Dolph when she learns that he works for the Godwins just so he can continue to kill people.]]* YourPrincessIsInAnotherCastle: After you liberate Sol-Falena. [[spoiler: The country is saved, but the BigBad escaped with the Sun Rune and threatens to flood the place. [[{{Irony}} The princess herself, however, is present and accounted for.]]]]----


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Old .22 long rifles great accuracy and value.
View Single Post
October 19, 2012, 12:28 AM
Ignition Override
Senior Member
Join Date: February 18, 2008
Posts: 2,233
My skills aren't advanced enough to truly evaluate how accurate these rifles are.
The Savage .22 single shot was bought by a grandfather in the 40's to shoot squirrels in his yard. People have wanted to buy this gun, and tell me that rifle quality back then was better. I can't find info on any Savage website to date the serial #s. Is this possible?
My other .22 was found by a friend at a recent gun show, sold for $100, in really good condition.
The Romanian M-69 Trainers are reported to be fairly accurate. This one has a very bright bore and seems to be accurate.
One nice feature is the 5-rd. mag. from Taiwan, which seldom misfeeds.
The M-69's features make it appear to be a baby Mauser, and the sights are much better than the irons on my Yugo 48A Mauser.
I know nothing about 'uploading' photos.
Last edited by Ignition Override; October 19, 2012 at
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Belgium will be keen to end a dispiriting run of results against their neighbours as 2010 FIFA World Cup semi-finalists Germany − strengthened by the return of René Adler, Heiko Westermann and Christian Träsch − target a positive start to their UEFA EURO 2012 Group A qualifying campaign.
Team news
• Having not played for his country since a 2-1 FIFA World Cup qualifying loss against Armenia on 9 September 2009, defensive midfielder Timmy Simons has returned to the Belgium squad, with new coach Georges Leekens saying of the 74-times capped 33-year-old: "He is a young warrior, the type that does everything he can to succeed. I brought him back to bring some balance to the team."
• Leekens lost no fewer than five players to injury in the days leading up to the Germany fixture, with R. Standard de Liège midfielder Mehdi Carcela-González and his RSC Anderlecht counterpart Jonathan Legear dropping out along with the Brussels side's goalkeeper Silvio Proto, Wolverhampton Wanderers FC defender Jelle Van Damme and Nicolas Lombaerts of FC Zenit St. Petersburg. Fulham FC forward Moussa Dembélé, uncapped KV Kortrijk goalkeeper Glenn Verbauwhede and KFC Germinal Beerschot Antwerpen midfielder Faris Haroun filled some of the gaps.
• Belgium squad
Goalkeepers: Logan Bailly (VfL Borussia Mönchengladbach), Jean-François Gillet (AS Bari), Glenn Verbauwhede (KV Kortrijk)
Defenders: Toby Alderweireld (AFC Ajax), Laurent Ciman (R. Standard de Liège), Olivier Deschacht (RSC Anderlecht), Guillaume Gillet (RSC Anderlecht), Vincent Kompany (Manchester City FC), Daniel Van Buyten (FC Bayern München), Thomas Vermaelen (Arsenal FC)
Midfielders: Kevin De Bruyne (KRC Genk), Steven Defour (R. Standard de Liège), Marouane Fellaini (Everton FC), Timmy Simons (1. FC Nürnberg), Jan Vertonghen (AFC Ajax), Axel Witsel (R. Standard de Liège), Faris Haroun (KFC Germinal Beerschot Antwerpen)
Forwards: Christian Benteke (R. Standard de Liège), Eden Hazard (LOSC Lille Métropole), Romelu Lukaku (RSC Anderlecht), Kevin Mirallas (Olympiacos FC), Jelle Vossen (KRC Genk), Moussa Dembélé (Fulham FC)
• Joachim Löw will give Michael Ballack more time to recover from injury before bringing him back into the Germany squad, but Adler, Westermann and Träsch are back in contention after missing the FIFA World Cup finals. Knocks mean Arne Friedrich, Jérôme Boateng, Piotr Trochowski and Dennis Aogo are not in the mix, nor is Serdar Tasci, who is struggling for a first-team place at VfB Stuttgart. Löw said: "As nice as the praise for our performances at the World Cup was, a new chapter with interesting challenges is beginning."
• Germany squad
Goalkeepers: René Adler (Bayer 04 Leverkusen), Manuel Neuer (FC Schalke 04), Tim Wiese (SV Werder Bremen)
Defenders: Holger Badstuber (FC Bayern München), Marcell Jansen (Hamburger SV), Philipp Lahm (FC Bayern München), Per Mertesacker (SV Werder Bremen), Sascha Riether (VfL Wolfsburg), Heiko Westermann (Hamburger SV)
Midfielders: Sami Khedira (Real Madrid CF), Toni Kroos (FC Bayern München), Marko Marin (SV Werder Bremen), Thomas Müller (FC Bayern München), Mesut Özil (Real Madrid CF), Lukas Podolski (1. FC Köln), Bastian Schweinsteiger (FC Bayern München), Christian Träsch (VfB Stuttgart)
Forwards: Cacau (VfB Stuttgart), Mario Gómez (FC Bayern München), Miroslav Klose (FC Bayern München), Stefan Kießling (Bayer 04 Leverkusen)
Match background
• Belgium's record in 23 games against Germany and the Federal Republic of Germany reads W4 D1 L18 (W3 D0 L8 at home). Their record against the former German Democratic Republic was a somewhat healthier W3 D2 L3 (W2 D0 L2 at home).
• Belgium have lost all six of their contests with Germany since German unification. In total, they are on a run of seven defeats by Germany and the Federal Republic of Germany since a 0-0 friendly draw in Munich on 22 September 1982.
• No fewer than 14 matches have passed since Belgium's last win against a Germany or Federal Republic of Germany side: they beat the latter 2-0 in a friendly in Brussels on 26 September 1954.
• That 14-game sequence includes the final of the 1980 UEFA European Championship, which the Federal Republic of Germany won 2-1 in Rome thanks to a Horst Hrubesch double, his second effort coming in the final minutes after René Vandereycken had levelled from the penalty spot.
• Oddly, Belgium had the better of the early encounters between the two nations, winning their first three friendly games against Germany in 1910, 1911 and 1913. Their 1954 triumph in Brussels remains their only victory since then, however.
• Belgium won three and lost two of their home qualifiers for the 2010 World Cup. Germany's five away trips in the same campaign brought four wins and a 3-3 draw in Finland.
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Eugeny Balakhonov wrote: > I tries to run simple query: > > select * from files_t where parent = 3333 Use this instead: select * from files_t where parent = '3333'; ("parent = 3333::int8" would work as well.) PostgreSQL (< 7.5) won't consider using an indexscan when the predicate involves an integer literal and the column datatype is int2 or int8. -Neil
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Insight, wit and analysis as BBC correspondents, journalists and writers take a closer look at the stories behind the headlines. Presented by Kate Adie and Pascale Harter.
November 7th, 2013
Episode 462 of 867 episodes
Reporters worldwide: while refugees continue to stream out of Syria in their thousands, there are people who need to go INTO the country. Nigel Wilson's been talking to a group of them at the bus station in the Jordanian capital, Amman. Lyse Doucet, meanwhile, is in the Syrian capital Damascus where life for some, but not others, is becoming increasingly hard. Thomas Fessy talks of the shock in Francophone Africa at the killing of two French radio journalists in Mali. In Malaysia, elephants are losing their habitat as development continues apace. Bob Walker takes a look at a controversial plan to give the animals a new home. And Indian women over the centuries have been wearing the elegant sari -- Anu Anand has been hearing of a campaign to boost its popularity in the face of competition from more contemporary, if less stylish, clothing. From Our Own Correspondent is produced by Tony Grant.
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Social science, behavioral economics, cognitive psychology -- sound complex? Let's fix that. The Art of Charm Podcast is where self-motivated guys and gals, just like you, come to learn from a diverse mix of experienced mentors, including the world's best professional and academic minds, scientists, innovators, coaches, relationship experts, entrepreneurs, bestselling authors, and other brilliant minds. This show will make you a higher performer, a better networker, a deeper connector and, most importantly, a better thinker.


text: Hi, I've been mulling over a couple of ideas for new ufunc methods plus a couple of numpy functions that I think will help implement group-by operations with NumPy arrays. I wanted to discuss them on this list before putting forward an actual proposal or patch to get input from others. The group-by operation is very common in relational algebra and NumPy arrays (especially structured arrays) can often be seen as a database table. There are common and easy-to implement approaches for select and other relational algebra concepts, but group-by basically has to be implemented yourself. Here are my suggested additions to NumPy: ufunc methods: * reduceby (array, by, sorted=1, axis=0) array is the array to reduce by is the array to provide the grouping (can be a structured array or a list of arrays) if sorted is 1, then possibly a faster algorithm can be used. * reducein (array, indices, axis=0) similar to reduce-at, but the indices provide both the start and end points (rather than being fence-posts like reduceat). numpy functions (or methods): * segment(array) (produce an array of integers from an array producing the different "regions" of an array: segment([10,20,10,20,30,30,10]) would produce ([0,1,0,1,2,2,0]) * edges(array, at=True) produce an index array providing the edges (with either fence-post like syntax for reduce-at or both boundaries like reducein. Thoughts? -Travis Thoughts on the general idea? -- Travis Oliphant Enthought Inc. 1-512-536-1057 http://www.enthought.com email@example.com


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Hi! Tell me please, is windows ODBC driver sutable for connecting to PG 7.02? I have downloaded the last availible release, but in "Advanced options" I can see only selection of protocol 6.5-6.4. Connecting with this driver I'm unable to access to database with "Password authentication failed for user..." error. I'm running postmaster with -i option, and also I can access to database with the help of psql. What is wrong?? Thanks for any ideas!! Igor.
Next: From: luc00 Date: 2000-09-21 04:08:47 Subject: perl2c tool? Previous: From: Neil Conway Date: 2000-09-15 20:27:47 Subject: Re: Unable to install DBD module


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Syracuse field hockey 2017 schedule released, will face 6 tournament teams from last year
Sam Ogozalek | Asst. News Editor
Syracuse announced its 2017 regular season schedule on Tuesday afternoon. Last year, the reigning champion Orange lost a heartbreaker in the NCAA quarterfinals at home to Connecticut.
After coming back from a 2-0 deficit to force sudden death, the Huskies scored in double overtime to cap a victory at J.S. Coyne Stadium. Syracuse finished 15-4 (4-2 Atlantic Coast). Led by All-ACC backs Lies Lagerweij and Roos Weers, Syracuse looks to rebound from its early bounce in the NCAA tournament.
Syracuse opens its season with a three-game California road trip, with its first game against California (Berkeley) on Aug. 25. Syracuse's home opener is set for Sept. 2 against Bucknell and ACC play opens up Sept. 8 at Boston College.
SU faces six tournament teams from last season including runner-up North Carolina and semifinalist Princeton.
Syracuse's full schedule (conference games in bold):
at California Aug. 25, 5:00 p.m.
at Pacific Aug 27, 3:00 p.m.
at UC Davis Aug. 28, 2:00 p.m.
Buknell Sept. 2, 1:00 p.m.
Ohio Sept. 3, 2:00 p.m.
at Boston College Sept. 8, 5:00 p.m.
at Albany, Sept. 10, 1:00 p.m.
Wake Forest Sept. 16, 1:00 p.m.
Rutgers Sept. 17, 2:00 p.m.
North Carolina Sept. 23, 2:00 p.m.
at Louisville Sept. 29, 3:30 p.m.
Princeton Oct. 1, 2:00 p.m.
at Duke Oct. 6, noon
Virginia Oct. 14, 1:00 p.m.
Drexel Oct. 15, 1:00 p.m.
at Penn Oct. 22, 1:00 p.m.
Pacific Oct. 28, noon
ACC tournament Nov. 2
NCAA tournament Nov. 11
Published on June 27, 2017 at 2:21 pm
Contact Matt: email@example.com


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NewswireToday - /newswire/ -
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia, 2014/05/28 - New enhancements, quality reporting & free of charge until end of June* - MYOB.com. ASX: MYO
Australias leading accounting software provider MYOB has announced Essentials Cashbook has launched as a general release after a successful pilot program with more than 200 accounting partners.
Essentials Cashbook is part of the new MYOB Essentials range, announced earlier in the year at MYOBs annual roadshow. Essentials Cashbook is a cloud solution designed to help accountants and bookkeepers as business advisors to work more closely with clients with straightforward accounting needs, and help manage their business on-the-go. Its available exclusively through MYOB partners and accountants.
General Manager, Accounting Division, Adam Ferguson says the release highlights the company's commitment to making business life easier for advisors and their clients.
"Essentials Cashbook enables advisors to easily manage 'cash business clients' and provide real-time insights into the state of their clients finances. This can add real value to the client relationship where advisors can make adjustments and provide advice throughout the year not just at tax time.
"The solution has been designed to help accountants, bookkeepers and their clients gain back the hours spent on bookwork. Essentials Cashbook is an ideal solution for accounting practices and bookkeeping businesses with start-ups or cash clients who currently use manual ledgers, or desktop cashbook solutions but are ready to move online.
"Over the last four months, Essentials Cashbook has undergone a rigorous beta and pilot testing program to gain the seal of approval. Following the success of the pilot, we have added a number of enhancements to the general release to increase collaboration, improve functionality and extend reporting capabilities."
Rob Marshall of Ebiz Solutions says,"Put simply
I am loving what I see with MYOB Essentials Cashbook. It ticks a lot of boxes for me and our bookkeeping practice."
Additional features
Accountants can now invite other people in their firm to use the software, without the need to setup new logins or passwords. A notes function has also been added to make it easier for accountants and clients to track a threaded conversation about a specific transaction.
The cash flow reporting function has been extended to include detailed source transactions, making auditing and analysis easier. A profit and loss report, as well as a trial balance report has been added, with plans to include a balance sheet in the near future. In addition, users can now import raw data with all the information needed to setup new accounts.
"The beauty of the online platform is its ability to allow us to be responsive we are continually listening to feedback and looking at how we can integrate greater usability and functionality into each release," says Mr. Ferguson.
"We will be adding more reporting features and further enhancements based on user feedback. We are currently developing the integration of Essentials Cashbook to our accountants practice tool, Client Accounting, to continue to deliver on our common ledger vision."
The price for MYOB Essentials Cashbook is $16 per client cashbook per month (inc. GST). For more information, visit: myob.com.au/essentialscashbook
*To celebrate the launch, MYOB Essentials Cashbook is available in Australia free of charge until 30 June 2014.
Contact: Mitchell Hunt - Haystac Public Affairs Senior Account Manager
P: +61(2) 8094 7739 / M: +61 (4) 2822 4961 - E: myob[.]haystac.com.au.
About the MYOB Business Monitor
Established in 2004, the MYOB Business Monitor is a national survey of small and medium business owners and managers, commissioned to independent market research firm Colmar Brunton. The most recent study ran in July and August 2013, surveying 1,022 operators from sole traders to mid-sized companies, representing the major industry sectors. The Monitor researches business performance and attitudes around areas such as profitability, cash flow, pipeline work, technology usage and government. Note: the weighting of MYOB client and non-client respondents is reflective of overall market proportions. This media release details the survey findings for the 300 importers and exporters in the respondent pool.
About MYOB Australia
Established in 1991, MYOB (myob.com.au) is Australia's largest business management solutions provider. It makes life easier for approx. 1.2 million businesses across Australia and New Zealand, by simplifying accounting, payroll, tax, practice management, CRM, websites, job costing, inventory and more. MYOB provides ongoing support via many client service channels including a network of over 40,000 accountants, bookkeepers and other consultants. It is committed to ongoing innovation, particularly in cloud computing solutions, and now spends more than AU$30 million annually on research and development. In 2013, MYOB expanded its offerings with the acquisition of accounting solutions provider BankLink.
Written by / Agency / Source: MYOB Australia
Availability: All Regions (Including Int'l)
Traffic Booster: [/] Quick Newswire Today Visibility Checker
Distribution / Indexing: [+] / [Company listed above is a registered member of our network. Content made possible by PRZOOM / PRTODAY indexing services]


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Business Directory: Retail - Dining & Entertainment - Auto Sales - Lodging - Service Provision - Education - Manufacturing, Industry & Construction Services
Boca Burritos 929 Oak Street North Aurora, IL 60542 630-844-2424
If you haven't tried our Mexican Food, it is not highly seasoned, and is not hot. Hours: Sunday thru Thursday 8:00 am - 12:00 Midnight; Friday and Saturday 8:00 am - 2:00 am
Eddie's Pizza & Pub 45 S. Randall Road North Aurora, IL 60542 630-896-7300
Dine in and carry out available.
Harner's Bakery Restaurant & Catering 10 W. State St. North Aurora, IL 60542 630-892-4400
Juquilita Tacos Traditional Mexican Food 18 W. State Street North Aurora, IL 60542 630-264-3220
The Turf Room OTB 650 Randall Crossings Ln. North Aurora, IL 60542 630-906-9322
The Turf Room provides a fine dining experience within the Village of North Aurora. Come down and take a look at the exciting menu options and/or place your bets at the OTB located in the south side of the building.


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« Back to News Main
The Fall and Rise of the Classroom
October 28, 2014|
Classrooms as we know them are finished in the same way as Blockbuster Video and Barnes and Noble, cable TV and landline phones. Learning, however, is undergoing a Renaissance and the classroom that we've known must reinvent and adapt. Read the full op-ed from Jason Green, our Executive Director of Blended Learning and Professional Development.


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Going back to the roots
Jeanette Winterson: A poem is an act of memory, first forged out of the need to remember what would otherwise be forgotten - in an oral tradition record-keeping is an art, not an act of administration
The Thought-Fox
I imagine this midnight moment's forest:
Something else is alive ...
The Horses
I climbed through woods in the hour-before-dawn dark.
Evil air, a frost-making stillness ...
A Modest Proposal
There is no better way to know us
Than as two wolves, come separately to a wood.
Hawk Roosting
I sit in the top of the wood, my eyes closed.
Inaction, no falsifying dream ...
Terrifying are the attent sleek thrushes on the lawn,
More coiled steel than living ...
Pike, three inches long, perfect
Pike in all parts, green tigering the gold.
Full Moon and Little Frieda
A cool small evening shrunk to a dog bark and the clank of a
bucket ...
The Shot
Your worship needed a god.
Where it lacked one, it found one.
The Rabbit Catcher
It was May. How had it started? What
Had bared our edges?
Current Verses
October 4 1957, Robin Skelton: Mr Ted Hughes' poems are in a more usual tradition; Yeats has taught him much of his masculine vigour and harsh symbolism ...
Tough Young Poet
October 6 1957, A. Alvarez: A couple of months ago Faber and Faber published a very good volume of poems by Thom Gunn. They have followed this up with a book by another young poet, Ted Hughes ...


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669dead force
Expand Messages
- Nov 1, 2002I went out the drive off just now. I unplugged the car, got in (the
Ah meter read 1.76 -- i.e. it wasn't quite fully charged), turned on
the "ignition" and the radio turned on briefly, and then LCD display
went haywire, and the radio and LCD went off completely. It seems to
have "blown a fuse" figuratively. I'm now late for my appt, so I have
to take another car, but I'm hoping some reader of this list will have
some suggestions for me when I get back.
- Next post in topic >>


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Czech EU presidency limping towards finish line
With only about a month left in its six-month term at the EU's helm, the Czech presidency has stumbled many times, notably with its recent performance at the UN racism conference.Brussels -- When the Czech Republic assumed the mantle of the European Union in January it did so with fellow EU nations promising to help make its tenure a great success for a small country. But times change.
With over a month to run of its six-month term at the EU's helm, the Czech government has crumbled, it has picked a fight with the European Commission over Israel and the inauguration of the EU's Eastern Partnership with six ex-Soviet states is being criticised as ill-prepared.
The government of Czech Prime Minister Mirek Topolanek lost a parliamentary confidence vote last month and will be replaced by an interim administration on May 8.
The Czechs did have a hard act to follow at the EU helm, taking over from France and the hyperactivity of its President Nicolas Sarkozy.
"The truth is that the Czech (EU) presidency has lost control on a number of dossiers," one diplomat told AFP.
The propensity for diplomatic missteps was highlighted at a UN conference on racism in Geneva last week when the Czechs muddied a European protest against Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad by walking out of the talks definitively as he spoke.
Ambassadors from the rest of the EU nations that attended boycotted his speech and then rejoined the talks.
There have been other gaffes such as describing Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin by his old title of president in a statement and Topolanek's description of the US economic path as "the road to hell."
More substantially, the question of Israel has proved a diplomatic minefield for the Czech EU presidency.
In January, Jiri Frantisek Potuznik, Topolanek's EU presidency spokesman, described Israeli military action in Gaza as "more defensive than offensive," bringing a swift apology from the foreign minister.
Then last week, with Europe becoming increasingly frustrated with the lack of progress in the Middle East peace process, EU External Relations Commissioner Benita Ferrero-Waldner declared that plans to upgrade EU-Israel ties were being put on hold.
The Czech prime minister responded that "the peace process should not be linked to the relations between the EU and Israel," thereby pitting the EU presidency against the European Commission, the EU's executive arm, on a key foreign policy issue.
Czech Foreign Minister Karel Schwarzenberg managed to paper over the cracks at an EU foreign ministers' meeting in Luxembourg Monday with a meandering statement which seemed to cover both sides of the argument.
At the end of the EU ministers' meeting champagne corks popped in honour of Schwarzenberg and deputy premier for European affairs Alexandr Vondra to mark their last time in the presidency seat at the forum.
Even that gesture was enough to raise eyebrows according to one diplomat present.
"The Czech presidency has perhaps done an acceptable job, but definitely not up to the champagne level," he complained.
Fellow diplomats, notably from the Belgian and Finnish camps, meanwhile deplored what they said was insufficient preparation for the Eastern Partnership meeting with six former Soviet states in Prague on May 7.
For this last grand EU meeting for Topolanek to host "the EU message has still not been prepared, we are getting lost in futile discussions," a diplomat said.
And nobody is expecting Topolanek's replacement Jan Fischer, currently head of the national statistics office, to improve matters greatly.
Topolanek didn't make Fischer's task of steering the EU presidency till the end of June any easier by declaring on Monday that "the Czech presidency in a way ends with the termination of this government," adding that Prague's "influence and ability to push matters through is significantly lower."
Many in the EU are waiting to see whether the notoriously eurosceptic Czech President Vaclac Klaus will attempt to exert his influence before the Czech EU presidency limps to an end.
Catherine Triomphe/AFP/Expatica


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Washington • President Barack Obama celebrated a quiet Thanksgiving at the White House Thursday and called several members of armed forces to thank them for their service to the country.
Many presidents have preferred to spend the holiday at Camp David, the secluded Maryland mountaintop retreat, but the Obama has more often chosen to have dinner at the Executive Mansion.
Hewing to past practice during his administration, Obama placed calls to several uniformed personnel. The White House said he talked to 10 service members two each from the Army, Marine Corps, Navy, Air Force and Coast Guard.


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Corinne Bailey Rae (the B-Side)
John Wilson continues with his new series in which he talks to leading performers and songwriters about the album that made them or changed them. Recorded in front of a live audience at the BBC's iconic Maida Vale Studios. Each edition includes two episodes, with John initially quizzing the artist about the album in question, and then, in the B-side, the audience puts the questions. Both editions feature exclusive live performances.
Programme 6, the B-side. Having discussed the making of her second album, "The Sea" (in the A-side of the programme, broadcast on Tuesday 4th December and available online), Corinne Bailey Rae responds to questions from the audience and, together with pianist Steve Brown, performs acoustic live versions of some of the songs discussed.
Producer: Paul Kobrak.


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- Recruiting
- Performance
- Learning
- Digital Interviewing
- Selection
- Podcasts/Video Shows
- Speaking
- About FOT
H-1B Visas: Less Sexy Than An IRS Audit
I didn't know that the immigration system in American is broken because I am clueless. I live in Raleigh, and my husband works in the Research Triangle Park. When you… Get the Rest
The Donald – What He Tells Us… About US
It was June 16th when The Hairpiece announced in his Presidential candidacy speech that "The Mexican government is forcing their most unwanted people into the United States. They
Not All Brown People Need H1-B Visas: Immigration and Cognitive Bias
Not all Asian people are STEM workers. Not every brown person needs an H1-B visa. And not every black guy plays basketball. I know, I know. Sounds condescending.
© 2016 Fistful of Talent


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[YUUVA - PP] I am Proud of You + CP Elections
Your Party President Is Proud
I will be perfectly honest with you guys. Following the defection of some of our members to other parties, I was expecting a significant drop in YUUVA's share of Congress.
Instead, those that remained united together, spoke up and were counted.
Our members are writing quality articles and getting our message out there.
A job well done to you all!
Congress GOLD
A reminder to all YUUVA congress members. Following discussions our Party Spokesman published an article, that announced that Congress members are encouraged to donate what they feel they can afford.
A Small Announcment of my Own
YUUVA Congress members! As you donate send me a message stating how much you donated. Whatever the total amount is, I shall match it and donate that much myself to the National Bank!
Country President Elections
With the Congress elections out the way, we need to think about CP elections. Any YUUVA member interested in running needs to contact me first.
If multiple YUUVA members wish to run, a party ballot will be run.
Should no YUUVA member wish to run, I will then put up for an in-party vote a ballot on who we should officially support.
That is all for the moment.
Message ends.
And will self destruct in 10 seconds!
better collect gold in one place, then decide what to do with those golds 🙂
lol, Don you still owe me the 600 INR, you collected for the IPL tournament that didn't see the light of the day beyond round 2..
dont blame me for the non-progression 😛 people lost interest in it. in point of fact there wasnt much interest in it to begin with 😛
regardless Ive just sent you the amount + another 200 for the trouble 🙂 my apologies sam.
btw do me a favour 😛 get in charge of Forwar Bloc. bring it up the ranks a little 🙂 i hate seeing my old party languishing down there 🙁
Yeah don will see what I can do for the party 🙂 and thanks a lot for the money buddy..I needed it badly being broke XD
What is this?You are reading an article written by a citizen of eRepublik, an immersive multiplayer strategy game based on real life countries. Create your own character and help your country achieve its glory while establishing yourself as a war hero, renowned publisher or finance guru.


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Mental Health
Have Mental Health Questions? Ask a Psychiatrist Online
So, when she starts talking about things that aren't true, do we agree with her? I understand we need to avoid ciritcism.
One more thing: We do try to avoid confrontation, however that is difficult. For example, she agreed to come see my dad and leave at 8pm. At 9pm, she said her ride was on the way. At 10 pm, my brother and sister offered her a ride home, and she exploded. No one had mentioned the fact that she was already late in leaving before 10pm, so there was no prior confrontation.
We were trying to get everyone out of the house so my mom could go to bed, and she refused to leave. How to you avoid confrontation then? My mom was ready for her to go home. She will often refuse to do what she earlier had agreed to.


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Search Results
Entries tagged with "
Clay Shirky. Marshall Mcluhan"
September 28, 2012 8:45 PM
The Master Of Media tagged "Clay Shirky. Marshall Mcluhan"
Who is the master of media? Two words: Clay Shirky. I believe that Clay Shirky is the Marshall McLuhan of our time. I realize that it is statements like this that will either make certain individuals roll their eyes and... Read more


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After several years of budget cuts on the local level, representatives of Kansas' public music educators painted a bleak picture of the status of music education for members of the Kansas State Board of Education on Tuesday.
During the board's November meeting, officials with the Kansas Music Educators Association said there are fewer music teachers in Kansas — and those who are teaching are doing more with less.
"We're losing music positions in Kansas," said KMEA president Craig Manteuffel, of Hays. "It's about not being able to have the same music education I grew up with, and it's disturbing."
According to information distributed at Tuesday's meeting, of the 190 school districts that responded to a survey, 185 music education positions have been cut in Kansas in the past three years.
"Some schools are no longer doing musicals or have marching bands," said Mike Quilling, KMEA vice president and a band and choral teacher in Deerfield Unified School District 216. "Hopefully the storm will pass and things will get better."
Quilling said one of KMEA's biggest concerns is the shrinking budgets for professional development for music teachers, who often have to pay their own expenses to attend workshops and trainings offered by membership associations.
Ken Willard, a board member from Hutchinson, said while he supports music in the schools, more people on the local level would volunteer their time and commit resources to supporting music education if they know how dire the situation is.
"I believe our community members will step up if they know," he said. "The money is important, don't get me wrong. But volunteerism is going to get us through these tough times. "
Board member Janet Waugh, of Kansas City, Kan., said while she fully supports music education, her son being a band teacher, she would like the board to get a broader look at how budget cuts are affecting all the fine arts in Kansas schools.
"There's no doubt in my mind that all the fine arts are being cut," she said.
Board president Dave Dennis, of Wichita, said he wanted to hear from the music educators, in particular, because of their large membership numbers and that the cuts made to music programs was "indicative of what's happening in the fine arts across Kansas."
"We're not forgetting about art and drama," Dennis said.
Manteuffel and Quilling said there is a grass-roots effort to identify local leaders on the community level who support music. They said those people are being asked to contact their school board members and administrators about maintaining the funding for music in their schools.
Angela Deines can be reached at (785) 295-1285 or firstname.lastname@example.com.


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International Workshop on Human Nature and Bioethics
Event date: 6 - 8 December 2007
From the UK: Jonathan Glover (Professor Director of the Centre of Medical Law and Ethics, King's College London); John Harris (Sir David Alliance Professor of Bioethics, University of Manchester); Jo Wolff (Professor and Head of Department, University College London); Mark Sheehan (James Martin Research Fellow, Program on the Ethics of the New Biosciences, University of Oxford); Nick Bostrom, (Director, Future of Humanity Institute, University of Oxford); Rebecca Roache (James Martin Research Fellow, Future of Humanity Institute, University of Oxford); Julian Savulescu (Uehiro Professor of Practical Ethics and Director of the Program on the Ethics of the New Biosciences, Oxford University); S. Matthew Liao (Deputy Director and James Martin Senior Research Fellow, Program on the Ethics of the New Biosciences, University of Oxford)
From Hong Kong: Julia Tao (Professor and Director of Governance in Asia Research Centre, City University of Hong Kong); Fan Ruiping (Associate Professor, City University of Hong Kong); P J Ivanhoe (Professor, City University of Hong Kong); Zheng Yujian (Professor, Lingnan University); Yu Kam-por (Senior Lecturer, Polytechnic University of Hong Kong); Li Hon-lin (Professor, Chinese University of Hong Kong); Chong Kim-chong (Professor, Hong Kong University of Science and Technology); Jonathan Chan (Associate Professor, Baptist University of Hong Kong); Wang Qinjie (Professor, Chinese University of Hong Kong)
From the US: Jefferson McMahan (Professor of Philosophy, Rutgers University); Dan Wikler (Professor of Ethics and Population Health, Harvard University); Dan Brock (Frances Glessner Lee Professor of Medical Ethics, Harvard University); Agnieszka Jaworska (Assistant Professor of Philosophy, Stanford University)
From Sweden: Ingmar Persson (Professor of Philosophy, Gothenborg University)
Venue: City University of Hong Kong
Abstract: Jointly organized by the Program on the Ethics of the New Biosciences, James Martin 21st Century School, Oxford University & Governance in Asia Research Centre, City University of Hong Kong.
Human nature is an important notion in moral philosophy and bioethics. Our beliefs about human nature have implications for such topical issues as abortion, euthanasia, organ transplantation, embryonic stem cell research, cloning, gene therapies, and enhancement; and about how we should treat the environment, animals, and artificial life. Moreover, it is not only academic philosophers who recognise the importance of human nature to ethical debates: the US President's Council writes in Being Human (2003), 'To enlarge our vision and deepen our understanding [of bioethical dilemmas], we need to focus not only on the astonishing new technologies but also on those … aspects of "being human" on which the technologies impinge and which they may serve or threaten'.
In recent years, thinkers from a range of disciplines around the world have questioned whether human nature exists, and if so what it is and what are its normative implications. We believe that Hong Kong, China is an excellent location for such a workshop because the Asian setting would provide an ideal environment in which to identify possible sources of bias and irrationality in mainstream western ideas about human nature, arising from cultural or other factors, and to evaluate and compare Western and Eastern conceptions of human nature and its relevance to bioethics. We propose to examine the following questions:
1. Is a plausible account of human nature possible?
Following Aristotle, some writers define human nature in terms of properties judged essential to humanity, such as rationality. An objection to this is that Darwinism shows that species have no essential properties. As a result, it is tempting to give a purely descriptive account of human nature, according to which it consists of those properties typical of humans at some stage of evolution. A purely descriptive account is not satisfactory, however. Consider that, for it to be possible for humans to speciate (evolve into another species), there must be some property or set of properties that humans currently have which, if lacking in future generations, would disqualify these generations from membership of the human species. In this sense, there must be some properties of humans that are more important than others. How do we decide which properties are more important, and what are the ethical implications of doing so?
2. Is human nature part of nature?
Can a plausible account of human nature be of the same sort as accounts of what we might call natural phenomena, such as ecosystems and animals? If so, beliefs about how we ought to treat natural phenomena might be straightforwardly applicable to humans. If an account of human nature is unlike accounts of natural phenomena, if however, for example, it must be evaluative in a unique way, then humans might occupy a different moral category, holding rights and a moral status not possessed by natural phenomena.
3. Do human beings have an intrinsic worth or dignity, and what is the relationship between this and human nature?
Some believe that humans have a special moral status in virtue of possessing a unique set of important properties. However, the idea that there are properties that all and only humans possess is controversial: properties claimed to be unique to humans (such as rationality) are not possessed by all humans, and properties claimed to be possessed by all humans (such as linguistic capacity) are possessed by some other animals. Do observations like this undermine the claim that all humans possess a special dignity? If not, in what does human dignity consist? Do any other beings have a claim to the same moral status as humans?
4. What is it to become dehumanised, and is this always a bad thing?
We sometimes think of people living in certain conditions as being dehumanised: the soma-users of Huxleys Brave New World, or people abused by a political regime. Are such people literally less human, and if so, is becoming less human always bad? It may, in the future, be possible to become more than human, using medicines and technology to enhance our capacities beyond what is considered normal. Some writers view even interventions like these as dehumanising. Would taking a medicine to make ourselves, for example, more intelligent or more virtuous, be bad?
5. How important is a shared human nature?
It seems prima facie plausible that, to have a workable society and moral code, we must all be the same in some crucial respects. We must, for example, be roughly similar in intelligence, self-interestedness and sociability in order for certain laws to be understood, accepted and obeyed. Some writers worry that the enhancements described above would be socially disruptive because they may change human nature, thereby undermining our ability to live together harmoniously. Do we really need a shared nature? If so, in what respects and to what extent must we be similar? What influence does this practical need for similarity have on our conception of human nature?
Added value of collaboration:
Bioethical issues such as stem cell research, transplantation, enhancement, and genetic intervention increasingly receive discussion in the media. Scientists, philosophers and social scientists are frequently asked not only to comment on the safety and prudence of such technologies, but also to answer more far-reaching questions about what it means to be human, such as: What is special about human life? Is the selection of embryos on the basis of genetic traits risk or allowing people to undergo novel, risky procedures such as face transplants disrespectful to human nature and human dignity? Despite the relevance of human nature to such questions, however, human nature can mean different things to thinkers from different disciplines and from different cultures. Given this, we believe that there is much to be gained from bringing together leading thinkers about human nature from around the world to discuss, explore, and evaluate this concept. Moreover, UK bioethics can benefit from locating the workshop in China because of the opportunities it affords to strengthen academic ties with what has become a leading country in the area of biosciences and biotechnologies. We intend this workshop to advance ethical thought, both through discussion during the workshop and with the publication of the presentations as a volume which is intended to represent the most recent, cross-cultural thinking on this topic. Further, given that thought about human nature is relevant to many ethical issues that receive wider public attention, providing academics with the opportunity to debate this topic could have the additional benefit of increasing the extent to which they are able to advise and educate the public about ethical issues.


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John Cusack Restrains Alleged Stalker
The adorable John Cusack has a stalker. Not Lloyd Dobler! Who would even think of doing such a thing? Apparently Emily Diane Leatherman (no relation to David Letterman) would. A restraining order was granted which requires Letterman to stay at least 500 feet from Cusack, 40, as well as the actor's home, workplace, car and offices.
"This person is showing unusual interest by stalking, throwing long letters of interest over my fence in bags with rocks and screwdrivers inside (and) making unannounced visits to offices of people I work with in an attempt to meet with me," Cusack said in his restraining order application.
He said Leatherman "threatens to commit acts of violence against herself if I do not help her" and that her mail has been arriving at his home.
Let go of the Dobler, Emily. He's mine!


text: Approach Follow the Tokapah Valley trail from the Lodgepole campground for 1.5 miles. At trails end (next toTokapah Falls), hop over the Marble Fork River (maybe difficult to cross in the spring) then back down stream for 100 yards. Skirt past north facing slabs and then head uphill (southwest). The Watchtower is the obvious tower at the end of the valley's south side cliff walls. Continue uphill by following a loose, shallow gully and then over pocketed terraces (some 3rd class). Head up to the largest lodgepole at the base of the Watchtower. Total approach time: 1.5 to 2 hours from the trailhead. Route DescriptionThe Timex Route begins 200 feet to the right of a lodgepole pine. The first pitch (5.7 "jungle"!) heads up to a terrace ledge. To avoid rope drag through vegetation, move the belay to the ledges' right side (40 feet). Begin the second pitch (5.6/5.7) up a right facing corner. Follow the corner up to a small ledge (130') and belay in the corner. The third pitch continues up a steep, broken corner (5.9), which goes up and slightly left. The pitch ends at a shallow recess (150'). The 4th pitch is a beautiful, airy traverse out onto the face by following a finger crack up and right (5.8, pro to 1"). The pitch continues by going up a broken groove (somewhat vegetated). Belay at a small, sloping vegetated ledge (160!). Pitch 5 moves right from the belay for 20 feet over to a crack (5.9 hands). Use caution, there are a few loose chockstones and slightly chossy rock along the way. The pitch ends at a narrow ledge (right of the crack). Begin up pitch 6 by moving slightly left and then up on good featured holds (poor pro) to a small overlap. "Navigate" the overlap (awkward 5.9) and follow blocky low 5th class to a big sandy ledge (belay on it's right side). Pitch 7 involves thrashing up and through some vegetation for 90 feet. Belay at a black, lichen infested corner. Climb out from it's right side (blind corner!) then over a six foot gap (5.7)......lots of air! Head up from the gap to the north facing summit blocks. Scramble up big ledges and chimney through blocks to the summit (3rd class). Most parties descend via the Pear Lake Trail back down to Lodgepole (3.2 miles) Essential GearA full rack will do the job; mostly mediam pro (bring a few #3 Camelots). Pitch 5 has few flairing section (recommend using a few medium to large Aliens). Lots of slings and at least one 60 meter rope. A helmet is highly encouraged! Miscellaneous InfoIf you have information about this route that doesn't pertain to any of the other sections, please add it here. Images