text:
A nation of coffee drinkers ... and racists?
While it's horrible a cafe owner refused to hire a black man because of the colour of his skin, it's even more shocking that he thought he was speaking the accepted language of the whole country, writes Luke Johnson.
This time last week, we, the discerning coffee drinkers of inner-city Sydney, were offended to learn that our snobbery had reached a new high. Or, rather, a new low.
A black Brazilian man was refused a job as a barista because, as the owner of the Forbes & Burton café in Darlinghurst allegedly put it: "My customers are white and they don't like to have black people making coffee for them."
On one level, the reaction to this event has been quite encouraging. Patrons walked out of the café mid-sip, an employee resigned on the spot, and the media condemned what appeared to be an obvious act of racism. Learning that the owner of the café has himself only immigrated to Australia in the past nine months provided some sense of relief. Quite simply: this man isn't a real Australian; thus, what we have here is an act of racism in Australia, but not of Australia. Phew! - close call.
The question of what could possibly lead somebody who has been in the country for less than a year to conclude that this is the attitude of his newly chosen community has been largely ignored by the mainstream media. Or, at least, handled with extreme care.
There are several possible ways of responding to such a question. The reassuring ones have all been covered and can be summarised under one neat point: nothing. Nothing would or did lead him to draw this conclusion; the man has an aberrant prejudice against people with black skin and, in exercising this prejudice, has erroneously assumed that the rest of us share his views. We don't. End of story - or to put it in the words of one of the café's Facebook critics: "Who the hell does he think he is? He isn't even an Australian citizen and he's telling us what we prefer in OUR country?? Go back to China mate. You're not welcome here."
The alternative is that this was a genuine appraisal from someone trying, however poorly, to find a position within an adopted discourse. A far less comfortable thought.
The incident reminds me of a joke I overheard in my workplace several years ago: Two black immigrants arrive in Australia determined to out-assimilate each other. A year on, they meet up to see who has managed to become the most Australian in this 12-month period. The first man rattles off a list of clichés that demonstrate his deep Australianness; the second calls him a black so-and-so and turns away in disgust.
If this indeed is a racist joke, as the teller unashamedly promoted it, then it is a self-conscious one, relying on a sort of meta-racist logic: a racist joke that speaks of Australia's tolerance of racist jokes, or something to that effect. The real punch line, it's hard not to see, is that cognisance is often more crass than cliché.
In a fortnight in which two of our least experienced politicians have made offensive and downright ridiculous remarks against China - Clive Palmer on Q&A, and then Jacqui Lambie via press release - the judgement of this café owner becomes more understandable.
So, the Palmer United crew do not represent the views of most Australians, we tell ourselves. Only, the problem with this argument is that they do - if not literally, then at least formally. These are our elected spokespeople. When they speak, they do damage on our behalf. If not at the level of foreign relations, then in the cafés where we drink our morning coffees.
As chance would have it, I met with a student last week to discuss a piece of creative non-fiction she is working on for a class I teach at a university located just a few suburbs from the Forbes and Burton café. The woman requested the meeting because she was worried about reading her piece aloud in class. This is a class where admiring imitators of Bret Easton Ellis's hyper-violent fiction read their work without anyone batting an eye. What could possibly be so terrible about this politely-spoken woman's writing that she felt the need to meet with me in advance?
"It's about my experience of being a Malaysian immigrant living in Australia," she told me.
"Great," I said. "Sounds interesting."
She looked at me with a certain distrust. "It isn't very ... nice."
"Good fiction rarely is," I assured her.
"Yes, but I'm worried what everyone will say."
After a lot of dancing around the point, we arrived at the heart of the matter: immigration hasn't been a very positive experience for her. In fact, it's been the polar opposite of positive.
What upset me most was not hearing of the daily discrimination she has faced in the six months since arriving here, but her fear at daring to mention such things.
In Malaysia, she worked as a journalist; she isn't afraid of ruffling feathers. But in this matter, she was terrified with how the other students in the class would react to her experiences and perspective. This is a liberal inner-city university we are talking about - a long cry from the shearing shed where I overheard the joke all those years ago. Knowing the 20 or so students in the class as I do, I felt quite comfortable in assuring her that she could write freely and without fear of condemnation. But did she believe me? No, I don't think she did.
The Brazilian man at the centre of this most recent outrage was more sure of his audience, turning what might have passed as another silent act of discrimination into a public spectacle - and good on him for doing so.
The remarkable thing, however, is not that people came to his support, but that the owner of the café must have felt equally confident that the crowd would rally behind him: that he seemed quite earnestly to believe that he was indeed speaking the language of Australia.
Luke Johnson holds a PhD in Literary Theory, and lectures in the humanities at the University of Technology, Sydney, University of Sydney, and University of Wollongong. View his full profile here.
Topics: community-and-society, race-relations
Comments (343)
Comments for this story are closed.
28 Aug 2014 10:22:28am
It's not racism, it's just deciding who's on "Team Australia".
28 Aug 2014 11:01:52am
Oh, and who is that. I am still trying to figure out who is on Team Australia and who is not. Just as I am still trying to figure out who decides who is on team Australia and who is not. The who decides who is on Team Australia is the scary one for me.
28 Aug 2014 11:35:43am
Abbott's comment was a simple loyalty test, John.
He asked for everyone to be part of "Team Australia". So logically, that means the individual is the one who decides whether they're part of the team or not.
You'd imagine that most people would answer "sure, I'm part of Australia's team. Why wouldn't I be?". But if their natural response is offence, confusion or "No" then it would seem to indicate an issue.
28 Aug 2014 12:06:11pm
Zing, the issue is Abbott spent most of his period in opposition and now as the leader of the government driving a bulldozer through the Australian society, and he now wants us all on the same team.
We need a new captain first.
28 Aug 2014 6:01:45pm
No, he's the right captain for Team Australia. Its just that when he turns around to see who is on his Team, he might be standing there pretty much on his own.
And this will be because the intelligent men and women of Australia will have twigged to the fact that Team Australia, any war overseas, and anything to do with asylum seekers is just a diversion so that we all forget the Budget which is the unfairest Budget brought down in Australia in living memory, and based on lies.
29 Aug 2014 7:39:45am
The Team Australia thing is dangerous because it tries to make people think in terms of being black and white when we know in fact there are many shades in between. There are many questions which one sees when reading between the lines.
We are already Australians so why the need to state the question of being on "Team Australia". Is it a question of whether some of us are more Australian than others?
Is it a slogan which infers that those who do not support Abbot and Co are less Australian than those who do not?
Is it a statement that those who do not conform as to Abbot's conservative views as to what is a family, or individual values are less deserving of respect in our society?
The "Team Australia" slogan has a lot of dangerous assumptions behind it and it seems as though the government has done dangerously little to explain what it exactly means, again
28 Aug 2014 12:19:43pm
Zing: His comment wasn't a loyalty test rather an attempt to stop debate on his new terrorism laws.
Ask yourself this, are you on Team Australia if you want to debate the merits of these new laws? According to Abbott the answer is a resounding No.
Basil C:
28 Aug 2014 12:38:05pm
But Zing, who gets to choose who's on the team, what game is being played, what are the rules and who's the opposition? I'd like to know before I pull on the jersey.
28 Aug 2014 6:08:05pm
Basil, you dont know what a team means. A business team is not playing a game. The location is the world stage. The opposition does not need to exist like a team building a tower and the rules are in flux.
28 Aug 2014 1:15:19pm
"But if their natural response is offence, confusion or "No" then it would seem to indicate an issue."
Absolutely and the issue is that it smacks of the same "You're either with us or against us" licence that Bush assumed to commit atrocities post 9/11. You'd better believe I'm not on Team Australia if Abbot's the referee.
aspect45 :
28 Aug 2014 6:34:04pm
I with you Butterscotch. But Abbott sees himself as the Captain? My idea of being on a team is that we're all aiming for the same goal. I don't share most of the "Captains" goals or visions for Australia society in the future so surely I shouldn't be included.
Like Zing I'm uncomfortable with the rhetoric used especially when you look back in history.
As for restricting terrorist movement, monies & sympathizers to a cause in another country that's a joke. The policy is clearly divisive. I would have thought that if this was to be taken seriously we would be leaving it up to ASIO & ASIS. Not shouting it from the rooftops & telling would be terrorists which airports they could safely leave from in the next two weeks!
I can't remember any effort to stop money flowing from Australian citizens who supported the IRA, oh but I forgot the IRA wasn't an Islamic terrorist group.
Nor do I hear any plans to stop the flow of money from Australian citizens who support Israel. What of the many young Australians who go off to support Israel, some of them staying to do their National Service? oh I forgot they're Jewish & we turn a blind eye to the activities in the Middle East of Mossad & Shin Bet
28 Aug 2014 2:18:34pm
"Team Australia" is simply Abbott's equivalent of Howard's equally offensive "mainstream Australia", which, in itself, was a simple, apish re-statement of the Bush Doctrine (you are either with us or against us). It is hard to remember the last time that an original idea came from a Tory leader.
The problem that I have with "Team Australia" is that it seems to sit uncomfortably close to the rhetoric employed by the ultra-right political parties in Europe in the 1930's, when not being a part of Team Germany or Team Italy or Team Spain could land you in a concentration camp (yes, that's right, we have them too - Nauru, Manus, Christmas Island....)
I am a loyal Australian and, as a loyal Australian, will not have anything to do with "Team Australia" or any other proto-fascist, exclusivist nonsense that endangers everything that makes Australia worth anything. Mr Abbott should stop trying to use ISIS to divert our attention and concentrate on his own language, which is more of a threat to our way of life than ISIS will ever be.
don't believe the media:
28 Aug 2014 5:19:07pm
One of the recognised signs of a fascist state: overt and encouraged nationalism.
28 Aug 2014 5:30:48pm
Actually v it is exactly the opposite of what you say. The ultra-right fascists are the Islamists who are clearly NOT part of Team Australia.
28 Aug 2014 6:10:57pm
v: do you have any concerns about the with or against us of "deniers" "progressives" "socialists party" "red necks" "Tory" etc etc
If you are concerned about language, look no further than the ABC and Fairfax which continues to divide Australia by pretending that we are swamped with racists. If anything we are swamped with splitters.
28 Aug 2014 3:37:21pm
A simple loyalty test. Tell me what that is. If it means we have to be on Abbott's team than I don't think much of Team Australia. Unlike some of Abbott's die hard supporters some of us I would suggest are not into jingoism's.
What I get sick of is the Americanisms from Abbott's side of politics. Not everything American is good. A lot of it we don't want to follow. I certainly don't.
28 Aug 2014 4:37:28pm
I am 3rd gen Australian who spent 15 years in the Australian military including overseas service.
I am definately NOT a member of Abbott's " Team Australia " and am offended by the concept of being in or out as a member.
Conversely should a genuine, prominent, and capable Australian offer me a place on their team I would consider accepting.
28 Aug 2014 5:31:38pm
Are you heading off to fight for ISIS then, Pedro? Because that was the context.
28 Aug 2014 8:12:48pm
Mike, I presume Pedro can answer for himself but I am confused over your comment. Are you saying it is an either or? Are you saying that we have to be on Abbott's Team Australia or on the side of Australia? If so I would suggest that your view is a rather narrow black and white view of the world.
I must admit I know of a lot of people like Pedro who served this country but would think Abbott's Team Australia is an absurdity. It sounds too much like every thing else he does, its divisive.
rancid remarks:
29 Aug 2014 8:22:40am
Does this mean Mike that if your not on team Australia you are automatically the enemy of Australia?
That sounds like facism to me. Let's all castigate the non team Australians and start wearing team uniforms.
Sound familiar?
29 Aug 2014 10:36:42am
Once again you are forgetting or ignoring the context. The fascists in this context are those who support ISIS and they are clearly NOT part of Team Australia. Abbott made that comment in the context of dealing with those who support ISIS living in Australia.
don't believe the media:
28 Aug 2014 5:17:22pm
Dizzying logic as usual, Zing.
Obviously this recent Australian wanted so desperately to be on Team Australia he picked up on the policy of the Libs. RACISM. He's now true blue as far as our P.M sees it. He even knows all about 99.94.
Sir Robert of Lindsay:
28 Aug 2014 5:21:46pm
So the individual decides, hey Zing?
Thats good then. I don't want any racists, PUP voters, anyone that thinks punishing the poor and downtrodden is a good idea, Alan Jones, Andrew Bolt, Piers Akerman, Rupert Murdoch, or any bloody conservatives on MY Team Australia.
Tony would be the first guy I'd bench, too. He could use a month or two in the magoos until he found his sense of reality again.
28 Aug 2014 5:47:41pm
If you want to know what Team Australia is about you just have to look at our cricket team - whose main objective is to sell us American fast food.
Mitor the Bold:
28 Aug 2014 6:31:32pm
I'm Australian, but I'm not part of Team Australia. I don't agree with many of our our foreign policies, our domestic policies, our asylum policies, our recent budget, our 'national security' policies or our social conservatism.
To paraphrase Groucho: I wouldn't be part of any team that would have Tony Abbott as a member.
29 Aug 2014 11:26:08am
I want a new coach.
28 Aug 2014 6:06:25pm
Who ever said Australians of certain heritages, religions or sexual orientations where not on team Australia.
The outrage is far more of a political divide and objection to complying with the wills of a country.
Chris L:
28 Aug 2014 11:16:28am
The owner has the right to be a bigot! Hasn't he?
28 Aug 2014 11:29:53am
Well he hasn't been locked up, so it appears the answer is yes. His customers also have a right to walk right past his store, and it appears there's no shortage of that.
28 Aug 2014 11:44:21am
err no
he hads the right to hold racist and bigoted views
He doenst however have the right to act or implement those views illegally or to the detriment of another persons civil rights.
28 Aug 2014 12:09:35pm
"He doenst however have the right to act or implement those views illegally or to the detriment of another persons civil rights."
And he hasn't.
If I show up to your coffee store and apply for a job, my civil rights don't extend to compelling you to employ me. If you don't want to give me the job for whatever reason you decide appropriate, that's my bad luck.
What is the alternative? For me to go to the authorities and have you forced to give me gainful employment? Such an outcome would violate the owner's civil rights and make the employment contract void.
Nikola Kovacs:
28 Aug 2014 4:12:40pm
Zing, there are many reasons a person can legally be rejected for an advertised job - but their race is not one of them. That is against the law, and therefore this coffee shop owner has broken the law.
28 Aug 2014 5:01:04pm
"If I show up to your coffee store and apply for a job, my civil rights don't extend to compelling you to employ me."
Nobody said they did. This isn't about not getting a job because the applicant was black. This is about an application for a job not being fairly assessed because he was black. The latter may lead to the former, but it's a pretty clear distinction.
"If you don't want to give me the job for whatever reason you decide appropriate, that's my bad luck."
Unless you can prove that the reason was completely unrelated to your ability to perform the job (assuming the job is actually available), such as your ethnicity, then no, it's not your bad luck. It's discrimination.
"What is the alternative? For me to go to the authorities and have you forced to give me gainful employment? Such an outcome would violate the owner's civil rights and make the employment contract void."
Firstly, which civil rights would they be again? The right to deny other people their rights? Secondly, obviously not. You would go to your state's Equal Opportunity Commission and seek compensation, and the offending party will probably get a fine on top of that. And finally, why discuss alternatives, when you can just look at what the law currently is.
Sir Robert of Lindsay:
28 Aug 2014 5:29:38pm
Sorry Zinga, dead wrong.
You don't have to employ anyone you don't want to. You don't even have to give them the decency of a response to a job application. Don't want a woman, old guy, Asian, Muslim, Anglo or Jew? Fine, if you're that stupid to assume someones ability is based on your own prejudice, don't hire them. It is NOT actually illegal to reject any application - to a point.
That point is reached if you actually TELL them why you won't hire them. At that point it does fall fowl of the anti discrimination laws.
Feel free to be as bigoted as you like in your own privacy - once your stupidity starts effecting others then it becomes a different story.
28 Aug 2014 11:54:06am
Dave the owner may have breached anti discrimination laws I don't think that has been determined yet.
28 Aug 2014 12:16:45pm
But, but, .....I thought that that 18C we always hear about was meant to prevent this ever happening?
You mean some people still have free thought?
Chris L:
28 Aug 2014 12:54:57pm
Indeed, AE, it turns out 18C isn't the set of shackles it's been made out to be.
Jimmy Necktie:
28 Aug 2014 5:02:36pm
you expect 18c to *prevent* bigotry rather than deal with it after the fact? How does that work?
28 Aug 2014 6:14:00pm
18C hasnt prevented the "opinion" piece and anti Jewish Cartoon in the Sydney newspaper, threats of death on a Jewish school bus or the latest pamphlet release of Nazi style propaganda.
Unfortunately, 18C does not seem to apply for any of them. Just a flawed article written by Andrew Bolt which argued for a cut of funds rather than proposing the removal/deaths of a group of people.
Strange clause 18C is.
Chris L:
29 Aug 2014 8:03:46am
I think it requires someone to instigate the legal action, aGuy, though I'm not speaking from any legal expertise. My recollection with the Bolt case was that the individuals he maligned took legal action and chose to utilise 18C instead of defamation laws so people wouldn't assume they were just after money.
I suspect if anyone affected by the cartoon or pamphlet you mentioned they would have similar recourse if they chose.
29 Aug 2014 10:24:42am
"Strange clause 18C is."
Way to rewrite history aGuy, the SMH apologised for the cartoon in order to avoid problems under 18C, and if Bolt had done the same about the article you admit was "flawed" (actually full of lies, but why split hairs) he too would have had less problems.
18C works. It just doesn't work before offence is caused, quite correctly 'thought crime' is not a real thing in this country so we have to rely on people breaking the law to actually break it before we can prosecute them.
By your logic laws against murder don't stop murders happening so we should scrap them. Good one.
28 Aug 2014 11:44:25am
Of course.
Furthermore, an employer can decide to employ or not employ a person. They have freedom of choice and they can base their decision on whatever factor they want - whether it be skill, race, skin colour, gender, family connections or good looks.
The issue is that the owner directly expressed his racism to the applicant, thus causing offence. If the owner had kept his opinions to himself, this wouldn't even be news.
Basil C:
28 Aug 2014 12:36:04pm
Er, Zing, no they can't - where have you been the last 30 years?
You are right though, had he kept his reasons to himself and just turned down the application with no reason, then nothing would have happened at all.
So, how do we counter the daily drip-feed of racism that non-anglo people have to suffer?
28 Aug 2014 1:18:27pm
And what about the racism that Anglo-Australians suffer all the time? You know "you are all racist". Every day this is shoved down "our" throats. We are white so we must be racist. Have you read this story? Have you noted that the cafe owner was a recent immigrant from a non-"anglo" country? ANYONE can be racist, and by stating that all people from a certain group are racist, this is in fact a racist comment in itself.
Travelling is a big eye opener as well. For people who like to think that all Australians are racist, or all white people are racist, try a bit of travel to open your eyes. Newsflash - every culture displays some elements of racism. Many cultures however don't see anything wrong in what they do.
Racism is not a privelege of the "anglo" and I for one am sick of being told that I MUST be racist because of the colour of my skin.
28 Aug 2014 5:21:22pm
Ooh bless this constant argument ? what about the racism I suffer. It is not that we are saying that ALL white people are racist it is they are not sufferers of racism. Countries that are under a Christian dominated culture are brought up on the theories white is good - black is bad, books, songs, fables, descriptions, natural disasters etc all follow the pattern of dark & black skies, black Sunday etc that it is bad.
Look what is happening in America, black youths are killed on the streets by police, Aboriginal people in Australia die in jails ? tell me you ever heard of a ?white? person being killed or being tazered in the eye whilst being arrested?
You can?t say what about the ?racism? you suffer as you don?t suffer from racism, it is not part of your daily life. People don?t stereotype you because of your colour. But if you feel punished for being white ? try being black for one day and see how that one goes?.
Sir Robert of Lindsay:
28 Aug 2014 5:35:29pm
@ Susan
"Racism is not a privelege of the "anglo" and I for one am sick of being told that I MUST be racist because of the colour of my skin."
Just maybe you get accused of racism for reasons other than the colour of your skin?
Everytime I hear a white anglo in THIS country I laugh MAO. Yes, fully aware it happens in all cultures, but that doesn't make it right. It makes them ignorant as it does white racists in this country.
29 Aug 2014 7:35:31am
Sir Robert - I personally don't get accused of racism - as a member of a subset I stand accused - so think on that one.
Della - you make a very sweeping statement that because I am white I can't be subjected to racism? That in itself is a racist statement. How do you know what life experiences I have had?
I think you are ALL missing the truth in this article. An immigrant to this country discriminated against another immigrant to this country. Neither of them are white. On discovering this, the customers of the cafe (described as predominantly white) got up and left. So the truth of Australian society has been borne out here. The people who are usually accused of being racist because of the colour of their skin took a stand against racism. Yet the author of this article, and many responders, are still harping on about the "inherent racism" of Australians.
Maybe the racism is there, but not where you expect it to be? The unfortunate thing is, you will never see it, because you are blind to where it is occurring, instead leaping to conclusions about where you CHOOSE TO THINK it is occurring.
Closet Romantic:
28 Aug 2014 3:12:10pm
The problem for me Basil is bigotry isn't only about race the applicant could have had buck teeth and still face constant discrimination regardless of race, just ask the Drum columnist Stella Young she wrote a great article about being patted on the head by strangers not negative bigotry but belittling patronisation.
Appearance in this society matters and unfortunately looks can be genetic so if your a genetic outsider you face constant discrimination it doesn't matter what this difference in looks is other people will discriminate against you so if you are fat or skinny, buck toothed, have a visible birth mark, a squint, a lazy eye, a problem with movement any sort of thing that marks your appearance as different you are going to be the victim of discrimination even within your own racial group.
There is more than enough bigotry to go round for everyone some people will even do it on language talk too strine and well nobody likes a bogan be born and raised in the wrong suburb or community and people will look at you as if you are beyond the pale and I use the term as a literal example of place based bigotry.
The weird one for this is that most of us really don't care about the appearance of our baristas we just want a good cup of coffee and a Brazilian barista should know their coffee the employer in this case was a fool who obviously doesn't realise some of us even like our coffee black, speaking personally having never been to South America I would love to talk coffee with a Brazilian or Colombian as well as hot chocolate with a Mexican, there is nothing like talking to people to whom it is a national passion.
I mean doesn't the man know where most coffee comes from?
29 Aug 2014 8:26:26am
"and a Brazilian barista should know their coffee"
Except, Closet Romantic, that it's a racist stereotype to assume the individual has a particular experience, even if that experience was deemed to be a positive attribute, in exactly the same way it is racist to assume an individual conforms to a negative character trait associated with a particular race.
28 Aug 2014 4:45:35pm
"You are right though, had he kept his reasons to himself and just turned down the application with no reason, then nothing would have happened at all."
Not necessarily. If the complainant could establish that his qualifications were suitable for the job and/or superior to those of other applicants, the responsibility would then fall upon the employer to prove that they had valid reasons for awarding th ejob to someone else.
The big problem is that most of those who are discriminated against are unaware of their rights and do not have the resources to make and follow a complaint through the legal process. This means that there are an awful lot of employers out there who can get away with discriminatory employment procedures.
Sir Robert of Lindsay:
28 Aug 2014 5:41:57pm
" If the complainant could establish that his qualifications were suitable for the job and/or superior to those of other applicants, the responsibility would then fall upon the employer to prove that they had valid reasons for awarding the job to someone else."
Not so v. Any employer is quite legally entitled to reject a superior applicant over another. Where would we be if this wasn't the case - EVERY job application could be subject to legal action.
Even a simple subjective "I didn't like the guy much" is a good enough reason to reject, regardless of how well qualified the applicant. Employees aren't even legally required to have a reason at all.
Again, this guys problem came about because he told the bloke the reason. At that point it became an offense.
28 Aug 2014 12:44:59pm
"...freedom of choice [to] base their decision on... race, skin colour, gender"
Actually no they don't. The whole point of anti-discrimination laws is to make it illegal to refuse (or terminate) employment purely on the basis of those factors (and a few others). Trouble is, it's usually very difficult to prove that that was the only factor involved in the termination or refusal. Unless of course the employer/prospective employer is dumb enough to state it up front.
NAL but I would imagine that if the case went to court and was upheld then the outcome would be a fine of some sort, rather than forced employment.
28 Aug 2014 1:32:13pm
Bazil and Azure.
All you've done is reinforce my point - employers are free to employ as they please. They're just not allowed to do so in a way which racially offends the applicant.
In the absence of blatant racism, an employers decision is legal whether it is actually racist or not. So clearly the law is only designed to stop blatant racism - and even then, only when the applicant is personally offended and takes legal action.
It may also interest you to know that anti-discrimination laws don't apply to employment for private households - once again showing that not all discrimination is unacceptable to law.
Basil C:
28 Aug 2014 3:37:43pm
No Zing. You are still wrong, My point was that if he had kept quiet, the cafe owner's racist hiring practices were very unlikely to come to anyone's attention because of his small workforce. If (as seems unlikely) he became extremely successful, with 1000 cafes and no people of colour on his books, then he might get a visit. He is not free to conduct his business hiring practices that way. It is not legal. It's not about offending the applicant, it's about offending us all.
28 Aug 2014 5:32:39pm
Zings logic is flawed as he is conflating the ability to police something with its actual legality.
By that logic, rape or murder would not be illegal if it was unable to be detected. We all know that crimes must be proven in a court in accordance with the current law in order for them to be recognised as a crime or offence 'on the record', it doesn't change the fact that the act that was done was an illegal act, albeit unproven at that point in time.
If I go drink driving tonight, it doesn't mean I never did anything wrong if the police don't happen to pick me up. Zings logic would seemingly state that as long as I continue to do it in a manner or in an area where police are unlikely to catch me, it is essentially a victimless crime, or non-crime. I would argue that logic is flawed.
28 Aug 2014 12:54:12pm
Hi Zing
There is a difference between discrimination in employment and the rules against racial harassment or vilification. It is indeed against the law to refuse to employ someone because of their race or ethnic background, even if you don't tell them that's your reason.
28 Aug 2014 1:52:58pm
"even if you don't tell them that's your reason"
You are correct it's illegal but when a law is essentially unenforceable, as is often the case when other reasons have been put forward as the reason for being unsuccessful in an employment application, that doesn't mean much.
28 Aug 2014 4:42:26pm
"an employer can decide to employ or not employ a person. They have freedom of choice and they can base their decision on whatever factor they want - whether it be skill, race, skin colour, gender, family connections or good looks."
No Zing - that is simply a direct lie. It is ILLEGAL for an employer to discriminate against any person on the basis of race, religion, skin colour, ethnic background, marital status, sexual orientation, disability or age. There are severe penalties for doing so, but they are clearly not severe enough.
Many employers get away with it because very few of their vicitms are in a position or have the confidence and assertiveness to make a complaint and to follow it through the legal process, which is why we need union inspectors to make random visits to worksites and carry out random audits of employment policies and procedures, and well as union safety inspectors.
It is difficult to overstate the amount of damage done to our fundamental rights by Howard. The denial of the right of entry to union officials on Australian worksites has been responsible for scores of preventable deaths, and thousands of debilitating injuries which are costing the taxpayer many millions a year in compensation and social security support.
"Self regulation" only works when the "self regulator" has some sort of commitment to following the regulations. It has been a total failure when applied to employers, who clearly cannot be trusted to act responsibly or honourably. We need to get the unions back in there to save lives and protect workers from this sort of vile treatment of our fellow Australians being meted out by employers.
28 Aug 2014 5:43:20pm
"It is ILLEGAL for an employer to discriminate against any person on the basis of race, religion, skin colour, ethnic background, marital status, sexual orientation, disability or age."
So v, if a white actor applies for a job in a role that specifically demands a black actor - playing Nelson Mandela, let's say - and is rejected because of race, that would be illegal??
28 Aug 2014 7:30:17pm
You should be able to apply to the state's Equal Opportunities Commission to request an exemption. So if you were a film company and need to hire based on sex, age and race, or perhaps were a charity and were starting a work for Indigenous Australian, you could apply to be able to use otherwise illegal factors in selecting applicants.
That's also how you get women's only gyms and the like.
There may already be provisions for arts companies to discriminate based on appearance, though I'm not sure.
28 Aug 2014 10:55:09pm
So my point stands; thank you, Mark.
29 Aug 2014 8:36:49am
A question isn't a point, mike, unless it was rhetorical.
Actors can be discriminated against because their appearance, gender, voice type, accent etc conflicts with a desired trait that is deemed necessary to the production. In cases where make-up and costume can be used to limit the impact of the actors own traits, then the production company has to decide if they can afford to go with that extra expense.
29 Aug 2014 10:34:14am
Yes, therefore it is NOT "ILLEGAL for an employer to discriminate against any person on the basis of race, religion, skin colour, ethnic background, marital status, sexual orientation, disability or age."
That was my point. Thank you for reinforcing it.
29 Aug 2014 11:24:19am
Only in some instances, mike. Not illegal for the acting roles already mentioned, but still illegal for almost any other job you care to mention. An employer looking for a barista, forklift driver, mechanic, etc. wouldn't get very far by arguing it isn't illegal for him/her to discriminate according to race because it happens in the acting profession.
28 Aug 2014 11:50:21am
Chris, yes he does have a right to be a bigot but of course no right to break Australian laws which basically he did. Obviously he is not part of Team Australia.
28 Aug 2014 1:48:11pm
Probably happens all the time. I have heard of one HR firm that use to just bin applications for jobs if the person had a foreign sounding name or overseas qualifications.
28 Aug 2014 12:32:14pm
I think an employer has the right to employ who he wants but, in our current world of discrimination and bigotry, it's just not wise to tell the unwanted applicant the real reason he didn't get the job.
Now you can whinge and complain about that as much as you want but at the end of the day individuals have their own private thoughts and reasons about who they want to employ.
It's a plus that we have a federal government that believes in bigotry...isn't Mr Brandis.
28 Aug 2014 4:15:08pm
Brandis was right - or at least, half right.
You see, we DO all have a right to be a bigot, just as well have a right to hold our breaths until we turn blue if we don't get our own way, to drive our car like an inconsiderate pig, to fart in elevators, and to recline our seats on short-haul flights. Most of us don't, because we have grown up and realise that many of the things that we have a right to do, we also have a responsibility not to do.
We have a right to free speech, and a responsibility to ensure that what we are saying is true, and is not intended to cause offence. We have a right to be a bigot in our own personal opinions, and a responsibility to treat all of our fellow human beings with respect and dignity, regardless of their race, religious belief, skin colour, sexual orientation, marital status or any other feature of the person.
Tories like Brandis can tell you what THEIR rights are and what OUR responsibilities are. But if you ask them what THEIR responsibilities and OUR rights are, and they look at you in total bewilderment. That is what being a Tory is all about: no care, less responsibility.
Jimmy Necktie:
28 Aug 2014 4:59:08pm
everyone has the right to believe whatever they like including if it makes them a bigot, so yes you have a right to be a bigot. People do not have the right to interfere with other people's rights or to break laws. The two concepts can coexist quite happily.
don't believe the media:
28 Aug 2014 5:24:02pm
Yes Abbott and Brandis decided to make it legal to be a bigot to get Andrew Bolt off the hook.
Of course that was until a cartoon appeared satirising the Israelis and then George Brandis decided Racism is bad again.
Of course inhumane treatment of refugees is good.
Then yesterday mr Brandis gave a 45 minute address claiming the ABC and Fairfax are anti religion and insisted that religion is the reason all human beings are equal and deserving of kind and humane treatment.
29 Aug 2014 8:04:17am
It seems strange that Brandis is trying to cut the less disadvantaged of our society while having graduated from a school which was named after a man who was cannonised for his work among the poor.
Then again:
29 Aug 2014 5:16:14pm
Actually the law is pretty clear that an employer can't discriminate on the basis of race and colour. It's an open and shut case. I don't know why there needs to any other discussion on this on the drum.
Extract from Fair Work:
What is unlawful workplace discrimination?
Unlawful workplace discrimination occurs when an employer takes adverse action against a person who is an employee or prospective employee because of the following attributes of the person:
sexual preference
physical or mental disability
marital status
family or carer?s responsibilities
political opinion
national extraction or social origin
Where an investigation finds that the employer has (or had) discriminatory practices that are linked to adverse actions for employees or prospective employees, the Fair Work Ombudsman may take enforcement action.
28 Aug 2014 11:41:18am
You're quite right matty... its nationalistic fervour which excludes the "other" from our ranks... it is institutional racism that continues to pervade our right wing politics.
Peter of Melbourne:
28 Aug 2014 2:13:17pm
hmmm isnt it weird that our flag and culture offend the egotistical ultraleft and yet our the benefits of our stable free society do not....
maybe you should run to one of your little socialist led countries and see how your "rights" which have been defended by nationals of this nation are treated there.
damn nationalism it just so evil. pathetic
Jimmy Necktie:
28 Aug 2014 5:11:55pm
I agree in principle PoM but there is a difference between pride of nation and nationalism. To me the latter is a form of tribalism just as dangerous as religion. There is little free speech in an nationalist society.
don't believe the media:
28 Aug 2014 5:31:37pm
Our freedom is guaranteed by the left and under immediate threat by the right.
Real nationalism is the ownership of our assets by the people and the sharing of the common wealth.
If you are speaking from a rightist point of view, which i assume you are, then you are supportive of our country being sold to giant multi- nationals and our laws being overridden by corporate laws such as those being signed by your P.M in regards to the T.P.P.
It's ok to have a side to cheer for, but i suggest you investigate what they really stand for, Peter.
Peter of Melbourne:
28 Aug 2014 8:30:35pm
well media it seems you have not read any of my previous posts.
i have no interest in the privatisation of public assets. i do however advocate a hands of approach by politicians in the management of this nation as they have proven to be complete and utter incompetents over the past 30 or so years.
i am a conservative left nationalist and have not one shred of interest in loony left or loony right idealism... idealism doesnt put bread on the table.
Sir Robert of Lindsay:
28 Aug 2014 5:49:55pm
It's not the flag that offends Peter.
It's the flogs that want to wrap themselves in it to push their own agenda that other equally worthy Australians may not agree on.
You see Peter, we live in a democracy. Government by the people, for the people. One person, one vote. Proportional representation, individual rights and freedoms, everyone one equal in the eyes of the law etc etc etc. Once a Hansonite or an Abbot start dictating what it means to be "Australian" it loses all meaning.
It also smacks of despiration.
28 Aug 2014 3:11:14pm
Scott, its not unusual for workplaces to hire people they feel will fit socially into their work environment.
28 Aug 2014 10:30:43am
Whatever assumption the owner had about Australians and racism has been disabused in the most forceful way: he has closed his doors due to the dramatic loss of business.
Perhaps the man, a recent immigrant from vastly monocultural China, genuinely believed white people don't like black people and he was just providing the service he thought his customers wanted.
Inner-city Sydney culture aside, the owner had a responsibility to abide by employment law, which explicitly forbids discrimination based on race.
How many other new immigrants are out there, who've arrived on business visas, in positions of employment authority and blatantly failing to abide by the law, not just in terms of racial discrimination but also wages, penalty rates and safety in the workplace?
I think we need to scratch the surface of this nasty little episode as I suspect there's more to be uncovered.
Brian Francis:
28 Aug 2014 10:57:48am
'how many other new immigrants are out there ........ Blatently failing to abide by the law?'
Did I read this correctly or is racism just something someone else does and should be prosecuted?
28 Aug 2014 11:21:02am
A reference to 'new immigrants' without specifying any particular race is obviously not racist.
It's a fact frequently observed in employment law that relatively new immigrants (particularly those with limited English) are well over-represented in employment breaches on both sides (they both underpay and are underpaid). A good combination of education and enforcement is employed. And there are a good number of law firms out there offering multilingual assistance for immigrants who've gotten themselves into trouble breaching employment laws.
28 Aug 2014 11:42:52am
It is confusing, isnt it?
Racism isnt confined to white Australians
28 Aug 2014 1:21:00pm
You misread the article: it says that just because this Chinese immigrant was racist, it was because this racism was "a genuine appraisal from someone trying, however poorly, to find a position within an adopted discourse".
In other words, this migrant merely channeled White Australian racism - its the dominant discourse apparently.
So - it is still the whiteys' fault.
29 Aug 2014 10:46:55am
'In other words, this migrant merely channeled White Australian racism - its the dominant discourse apparently.'
Or maybe, just maybe he was 'channelling' to cover up his own racism, by playing the old 'all Australians are racist' card.
The Concerned Citizen:
28 Aug 2014 11:08:53am
He might not have been entirely wrong either- in truth, many white Australians who live in the nicer suburbs with a large (and long-established) Asian demographic may be so used to having white and Asian people around they genuinely don't notice- but ONLY white and Asian people.
I imagine the rest of Australia (including around most of Sydney) probably wouldn't even have that amount of multiracial familiarity.
28 Aug 2014 11:33:37am
I enjoyed the irony of your generalisation.
28 Aug 2014 11:53:49am
Great to see the business migration scheme working so effectively to address the critical shortage of Australians who don't possess the capacity to make a cup of coffee. We are truely a nation of idiots.
28 Aug 2014 1:45:26pm
Frankly, given the service standards in the Australian hospitality industry, the more foreigners with a service ethic, the better, I say.
28 Aug 2014 1:46:53pm
Good point. Getting on slippery ground here but,.... 457s and skill shortages,......hairdressers? Farriers? Airline stewards? The list depressing reading. No change whatsoever to annual migration in recent years despite an economic downturn and affordable housing crisis. 190,000/ yr and steady, two thirds are "skilled" according to official govt stats, the rest family. 457s on top and 700,000 "leaners". Apparently the focus groups "went ballistic" in 2007 when Rudd announced that HE believed in a "Big Australia" since then we have silence.
I have raised the population issue mostly because I am concerned about steadily rising poverty figures, not because I am anti multiculturalism or racist.
My grandfather said the Aussies in Haymarket and Flemington fruit markets had to have a few quiet words with people about racist assumptions, they were all newcomers.
28 Aug 2014 12:15:29pm
What a sad story if this man, a recent immigrant to an (increasingly) strange land, has lost his business, and probably a lot more, because of one unacceptable racist act. And now has people saying that because of his racism, he should go back where he came from.
As the author points out, racism hides in our society, felt by the minority but never the majority. The days of the White Australia Policy may be long gone but it is a real part of our history and lingers on with every comment about the Chinese buying up "our" real estate, those "bastards" who "shoot their own people". Whether the cafe owner was himself racist, or genuinely believed his patrons were, his act was unlawful and repugnant; but the punishment seems too harsh.
Kudos to the Brazilian barrista who stood up and made his point. What a shame that we cannot better temper our response.
Sir Robert of Lindsay:
28 Aug 2014 5:54:59pm
@ Cyclophile
"What a sad story if this man, a recent immigrant to an (increasingly) strange land, has lost his business, and probably a lot more, because of one unacceptable racist act."
We as an electorate seem to think of racism highly enough to keep voting Howard in everytime he played the card. Then Abbots and Morrison get the top jobs.
Here is one guy who mistakenly thought that everyone in Oz could get away with it.
Jungle Boy:
28 Aug 2014 1:03:40pm
"How many other new immigrants are out there ... blatantly failing to abide by the law"
Millions. Millions have immigrated to Australia over the past 200 years and have stolen Aboriginal lands, in clear breach of Aboriginal laws.
But as they weren't on business visas or whatever, I suppose that makes it okay.
28 Aug 2014 2:28:20pm
Chinese companies employ only chinese workers ..... its they way they operate everywhere in the world. U will very rarely find caucasians in their restaurants and businesses ,,, unless it is menial work. Have a look for yourself.
28 Aug 2014 2:33:49pm
A lot of migrants will only employ people from their particular country of origin, ie an Indian family bought our local McDonald's and only young Indians work there now. They help each other with employment etc which is nice but hardly a 'fair go' for the locals?
28 Aug 2014 5:00:59pm
Are not the Indians employed locals? or because they were immigrants they don't count as locals? I though local meant someone who lived there. The fact that you consider immigrants not to be locals, and to be competing for locals jobs really highlights the cultural norm that you ascribe to.
29 Aug 2014 9:18:24am
You are trying to be clever with semantics to avoid the point. If a white Maccas owner only employed white staff, and that was a conscious decision, I expect you'd have a problem.
28 Aug 2014 3:11:40pm
I don't accept that it is only "new immigrants" who are the point here. There are many anglo-european Aus's who discriminate and pay badly...
Yet you make a very valid point in that the Gina Rineharts who exploit migrant 457 labour. There are also non-anglos who do this too.
But investigating such exploitation, underpayment and discrimination is difficult given the huge funding cuts to such institutions in the name of "trimming red tape".
28 Aug 2014 10:32:16am
Not a comfortable article to read Luke, but from my observation, racism is alive and well in Australia. It's a major reason why Tony's slogan "stop the boats" (hidden behind concern for the welfare of the poor people drowning) was received so well in the last election.
That a well educated woman from Malaysia is hesitant to present a not flattering picture of her experience of living in Australia to a group of uni students, is very concerning.
28 Aug 2014 11:09:41am
Yes, I would have to say that the White Australia has not completely gone away, at least within politics anyway. Even after the success of multicultural policy in Australia we still have this card played over who comes to Australia and who doesn't. And we still have this card played over and over in politics of who is an Australian and who is not.
As a new immigrant I can have some understanding of the Restaurant owners actions considering the way politics has sometimes been played in this country. People forget that the messages played by our internal politics gets aired overseas as well.
28 Aug 2014 11:38:49am
I am very much an ordinary Aussie, as far as racism is concerned I would ask you to have a look at the leaders of the country, PM is English, I believe the treasurer announced he is Palestinian, born in Aust. I think his sidekick is African, in any case they would all qualify as New Australians in the old terminology. Remember that this country was founded on the backs of convicts who were sent out here for far less crimes than the ones perpetrated on the public by politicians of any ilk. I wonder how many have actually defended this country at war. The land of milk and honey is fast becoming the land of bile and acid, thanks to our rulers.
Aussie Sutra:
28 Aug 2014 9:48:01pm
It is a shocking travesty that a person not born in Australia can become PM.
28 Aug 2014 6:22:26pm
One story does not make the case. Australia remains a migration destination of choice. Actions appear to speak much louder than words.
I have no doubts some people act in a racist manner. An Asian friend I have known for five years recently posted her first event on facebook. Yet that does not mean her experience has been negative. An African refugee family kept on calling Australia paradise and bought it up so quickly in conversations.
Racism is far more evident in many other countries. The Middle East and Africa frequently have massacres of different religious groups. Christians in Iraq is a recent example. So are all countries with a 99% Muslim population.
In Asia, there is frequent racism against other Asians that would make your jaw drop from your face.
Australia has some racists. To pretend it is institutionalized or a majority is ridiculous. Palmer and Lambert are focusing on a government.
If a government with one of the highest capital punishment rates in the world, no free media, no opposition, oppressing "territories", claiming ownership of Taiwan, border disputes with all its neighbors, multiple and ongoing human rights abuses by its departments on religious and political grounds, leadership in internet censorship, rampant corruption and a history of spying against Australian companies and governments *phew*
is above criticism, then all countries are above criticism.
Brian Francis:
28 Aug 2014 11:11:50am
An accusation that racism is alive and well and that a political decision was based on that belief, is in itself biased and borders on insulting to the many Australians of whom do not go about being racists.
It appears that 'Any' story whether it be good or bad or indeed disappointing as this story may prove to be, is an opportunity for some to link it's very content to the nearest political slag.
Racism exists in many forms and is still something that finds its way into our way of life, it should not be accepted and nor should it be given any wrongful alliance in other views on political points or generalised views of society as a whole.
28 Aug 2014 1:48:25pm
Brian, if you are one of the "many" Australians that never say or do racist acts, then why would you feel included in the statement that "racism is still alive and well in Australia"? It obviously doesn't include you, right?
Besides, your conduct would be at odds with those around you so you'd be more easily able to see their racism in play.
Everyone is a little bit racist, and if you don't think you are, it means you can't see your racism. That should be a big red flag.
28 Aug 2014 5:51:51pm
Speak for yourself, Ann; NOT everyone is racist, not even a little bit. It would seem you think of racism as a kind of "original sin" (and no I don't buy that bit either).
Sir Robert of Lindsay:
28 Aug 2014 6:05:28pm
@ Ann
"Everyone is a little bit racist, and if you don't think you are, it means you can't see your racism. That should be a big red flag."
Indeed very true Ann.
We aren't born racist. Many studies have been done with young children to prove this. It's something we learn.
This is where education comes into the mix. It doesn't take much to realise that not EVERY Muslim wants to fly planes into your building, not every Aboriginal is a drunken welfare cheat, not EVERY Jew wants to kill Palestinians, and not EVERY German or Japanese is hell bent on world domination.
Dislike, even hate someone if you like, based on their actions, personality traits, or personal habits all you want. I actually pity anyone that's hates on someone because of some un-defined "otherness"
28 Aug 2014 11:23:21am
Statements like "racism is alive and well in Australia" are very vague yet pleasing to the ears of many. A few shark attacks each year could imply that "sharks are alive and well and a threat to surfers". Yet we know the reality that they are relatively infrequent events. So it is with racism. Sure, it happens, but let's not exaggerate its prevalence in an attempt to makes us feel righteous.
28 Aug 2014 12:18:51pm
It was an interesting, but typically Australian self-loathing. It seeks to criticise us when this whole event is not about us.
Jungle Boy:
28 Aug 2014 1:14:46pm
"pleasing to the ears of many"
This would only be true if there were many racists. Yet elsewhere in your post you claim they are "relatively infrequent". Make up your mind.
Hint: non-racists would not be pleased at the existence of a significant number of racists.
28 Aug 2014 1:52:23pm
Turtle, the statement that sharks are alive and well, and present a threat to surfers, is technically correct. It is also correct that it is a very SMALL threat to surfers. However, the surfer that encounters the shark feels like it was rather a big deal.
The same with racism and racist acts.
Sir Robert of Lindsay:
28 Aug 2014 6:27:45pm
@ Turtle - Spoken like someone who has never had racism directed at them.
To an "other" (read Muslim, Aboriginal, Asian, Indian) that comes into contact with our white Australian attitudes I see everyday in the workforce I dare say their opinion may differ on the prevalence of it.
Aussie Sutra:
28 Aug 2014 9:52:53pm
And in what way would that be some uniquely Australian state of affairs? Go anywhere in the world and you can experience some pushback because you are not one of the locals.
28 Aug 2014 11:58:06am
Toot, you infer that that racism influenced the electorate during the last election in relation to the "stop the boats' policy.
Are you seriously suggesting that a large number of avoidable deaths at sea is preferable to no deaths at sea?
28 Aug 2014 1:51:14pm
I can't speak for Toot, but I think it's pretty clear that he/she believes that much of the motivation to "stop the boats" is a desire to keep people of certain races and religions out of the country. Unfortunately, I must agree with Toot. I will guarantee that, if a few boatloads of Kiwis or South Africans of European descent arrived on our shores requesting asylum because they were being persecuted in their own country, they would receive a far more favourable response than that encountered by those coming from the Middle East, Africa or Sri Lanka. This has nothing to do with the possibility of deaths at sea, which is, at best, a smokescreen for our government's actions: it has everything to do with xenophobia.
28 Aug 2014 6:25:55pm
splod1, thats an interesting belief. Especially when refugee intake is capped.
We recently took refugees from the ISIS war. We would have no capacity to do that under previous policies. I am far more certain of the refugees from Iraq being in immediate and serious danger than the largely economic migrants we where taking.
If there is a conversation about racism, why would people to supporting death of those in Iraq and many cultures at sea with their policy choice? There where more than the 1000+ drownings that ALP/Green policies ended.
28 Aug 2014 1:53:36pm
Zaphod, I would ask the people concerned that question: the refugees. Do they prefer the risk of dying at sea to NOT taking the risk ie not coming over here?
It's not my life at stake so what right do I have to tell them what is preferable in their own lives?
After all, don't we all support euthanasia now? If people have a right to kill themselves via injection surely they have a right to kill themselves via leaky boat, if they want to.
28 Aug 2014 2:42:44pm
'I would ask the people concerned that question: the refugees.' Why stop there. Why not ask refugees who have no hope of getting here by boat what they think ?.
28 Aug 2014 5:53:30pm
I would ask the heroin and ice users: do they prefer the risk of using heroin and ice to NOT taking those risks?
28 Aug 2014 8:10:11pm
Heroin and ice are forms of euthanasia
spacey 101:
28 Aug 2014 8:14:45pm
I agree @ Zaphod. I have never understood this argument.
If I'm on the upper floors of a burning building with my family, and a man comes along with a ladder, but only offers its use if I throw down all my valuables... Do I take the moral high road and refuse because the family in the next room have no valuables?? No, I throw down my wallet, my wife's jewellery and any other valuable I can find.
Problem is the ladder is old, and there's a good chance it may break once we get on it. From the arguments Ive heard, apparently I would be worlds worse father if I take the risk to use the ladder... Apparently father of the year award goes to the guy who says no to the ricketty old ladder but burns to death with his family. There is simply no logic to the argument that because you paid a smuggler and took the risk to go on a boat you are less deserving of refugee status and being saved. Personally I think they have at least been proactive in saving their families instead of waiting around hoping against hope that someone decides to save them.
If it was my family I know which option I would choose, and in your heart of hearts if it was your family you would do the same.
28 Aug 2014 2:04:39pm
Toot is of the opinion that the govt is insincere. They jumped on the back of public outcry, yet refused to discuss the matter with Gillard, then another boat went down.
A retiring Labour politician (can't recall her name) in expressing her disapproval of goings on in Parliament house remarked that "there were people there who got exited when they heard of a boat going down". She had criticisms of her own party too and was genuinely appalled. Toot is, I assume very cynical about our political culture and this govt in particular.
Sir Robert of Lindsay:
28 Aug 2014 6:34:38pm
Zaphod - were that the reason we would all rejoice.
But you know, I know, and the entire electorate know that is NOT the reason.
Why else would the Libs so heavily run the line in western Sydney seats like mine of Lindsay? Boat people no more effect the locals out here than Martians from outer space would. Yet time again they came out here to con my electorate they would be over run by the boats (75km from the nearest ocean btw). Of couse they wouldn't be drowning, which is nice, but they'll soon be here stealling your job, raping your women, and moving into your house. In pre and post polling here it was a major factor in many elections since Tampa.
Not bad for an electorate where I only have to walk next door to meet a person who has NEVER met a Muslim in his entire 48 years of life.
Aussie Sutra:
28 Aug 2014 9:56:51pm
The trend line on arrivals was easy to see. Our population would have been out-numbered by boat arrivals within the next five years, with the only constraint being availability of boats. So yes, people living 75 kms inland would very certainly have felt that pinch.
28 Aug 2014 1:31:51pm
The woman's reluctance has more to do with policy in Malaysia than it does the attitude of Australians. In Malaysia, the government itself has racist policies that favor local Malays over locally born Chinese and Indians. To quash any criticism of this, the government regularly uses sedition laws and charges people with disturbing racial harmony.
So the young women would not be able to publish such a paper in Malaysia.
It is interesting for me and my family, now living in Malaysia. Our experience parallels the experience of that young women. People are regularly rude to us (my wife in particular). I'm not saying this to say "they are as bad as us", but rather to highly what others see when they are now the minority.
When I go back to Australia, although I have never supported racism, my sympathy for the day to day rudeness experienced by minorities, will be much more acute.
28 Aug 2014 5:54:51pm
Great point. Racism is enshrined in law in Malaysia, so no wonder she felt uncomfortable. Hits a bit too close to home for her.
rancid remarks:
29 Aug 2014 8:52:10am
I wonder sometimes which is worse, Racism or it's instigator Facism.
Beware the ides of March Mike.
28 Aug 2014 6:27:35pm
A point with an understanding of Malaysian law. Ibast I fear such knowledge will not be heard or accepted when the "Australians are racist" cry has some potential
28 Aug 2014 7:05:14pm
Not so much, "too close to home" but more a question of ignorance of the response in Australia. In Malaysia there would likely be consequences and she probably assumed a similar thing could happen in Australia.
Aussie Sutra:
28 Aug 2014 9:58:33pm
I have also lived in this kind of circumstance. It's not all that uncommon on planet Earth. And it's really only the white nations where we even bother to agonise over it.
28 Aug 2014 10:33:29am
How did others find out what was said? Presumably the cafe owner did not conduct a job interview with the Brazilian man in the middle of the shop where everyone could overhear it, so how did anyone else find out? In other words, on what is this story based?
28 Aug 2014 11:15:46am
How does that make a difference?
If the cafe owner had declined to hire the barista because he was over 50, would that be o.k., so long as nobody ever heard about it?
What about if the barista was a woman, but everybody stayed quiet?
If we are not open and do not confront prejudice and discrimination, we cannot hope to do better, and we clearly need to. The cafe owner learned his prejudice - and the idea it would be acceptable - somewhere, and not likely back in China.
28 Aug 2014 11:17:56am
Actually, that's exactly what happened. The interview was conducted in the middle of the cafe. Once the cafe manager stated he would not be hiring the man and why, the interviewee stood up and announced the situation to everyone in the cafe. One worked immediately quit, and pretty much everyone in the cafe got up and left.
29 Aug 2014 12:05:07pm
Thanks Scott. That's what I wondered. I found it hard to believe that somebody could behave in such an assinine fashion, not just from the viewpoint of common courtesy and the applicant's sensibilities, but from a business angle also.
28 Aug 2014 11:28:42am
Orian my understanding is after the interview the interviewee turned to the people in the cafe and told them what had been said hence the comment in this article Patrons walked out of the cafe mid sip.
george bakouropoulos:
28 Aug 2014 11:46:15am
Orion, I also suspect a possible "set-up" perhaps by a rival coffee shop? But, not with standing, racism has always been an issue largely, I feel, as an inevitable "by-product" of economics/land grab of colonialism...the effects of which are still being felt around the world...even though Rudyard Kipling tried to give it a positive "spin". Cheers,George B.
28 Aug 2014 12:08:09pm
George how can it be a set up, if the proprietor didn't make the comment he could have said so.
Tim P:
28 Aug 2014 1:35:14pm
Oh absolutely! False Flag!! :)
28 Aug 2014 10:41:56am
"[But] did she believe me? No, I don't think she did."
What did you do about it? What's your answer?
28 Aug 2014 1:55:25pm
That while she continues to have racist acts perpetrated against her, she won't trust the average Australian to not be a racist.
His point is that until society changes, this woman's reaction to society will not change.
28 Aug 2014 3:44:45pm
But isn't a preconception regarding the behavior of others from a particular 'race' racist?
Aussie Sutra:
28 Aug 2014 10:00:37pm
Yes. That girl is racist against Australians who are white.
28 Aug 2014 10:43:53am
The TRUTH is that it does not matter what amount of legislation and warm and fuzzy political spin "correctness" is passed around, people will keep their opinions on other races - based on world issues, news, cultural values etc.
The reason is the cultural norms and values in other nations / racial groups are often so different and base that the public with a western set of values will not accept them - no matter what sort of spin is put on it, (for example child brides, female or male circumcision, toilet hygiene customs, the method of killing of animals - Kosher and Halal, the list could go on ).
28 Aug 2014 11:16:42am
Some people will retain their prejudices, but others will learn better. Giving up is not an option. It's an excuse.
28 Aug 2014 11:24:30am
This is true STB.
I will admit to opposing a select few cultures. Not races, but cultures. I notice today there was an article about a pair of African men following and trying to attack a woman in Sydney. The attack was so brazen (following her on and off trains and then chasing her down the road) that it is clear these guys have a different view of women than what is acceptable in Australia. And should we be surprised? I don't think so. In Africa, extreme Islam is practiced widely. Women are but chattels in that culture. Also, many of the cultures indigenous to Africa also treat women as chattels. We need to cease allowing ADULT OR ADOLESCENT MALE immigration from these types of cultures. Women and young children should of course be allowed in. Either we take a few steps back in terms of gender equality, or we stop welcoming those who do not believe in gender equality. We cannot have it both ways.
On Brazil; I am not thrilled about that culture as they have widespread exploitation of women/young girls, one of the highest homicide rates in the World and crippling corruption. Brazilian culture is not as bad as the majority of Islam and some African cultures, but it is still not ideal. We need to look far more carefully at the cultures and value systems of those we allow to become Australian.
Stella K:
28 Aug 2014 12:26:05pm
Hello Todd.I am from Africa, a continent of about 52 countries- perhaps 53 counting the new Sudan.Africa is mostly Christian, partly moslem and offshoots of these 2.Doesn't matter,religion is quite a personal matter and even within strict adherents,there will be those who will be quite vocal about the extremists who are a man made unit.Islam is essentially a peaceful religion as with Christianity,Buddhism etc.There will always be pockets of anti social behaviour in any community, it's not common to any particular race.Discounting refugees, the African people you will see on the streets got here on merit, there are very strict immigration checks.most come here to work or study,most as well hope to go back home and develop their communities and they do.Most of the anti social problems will be coming from refugee communities across nationality, either due to a history of living in refugee conditions,trauma, and generally not having transitioning properly socially.Not everyone looks at Australia and other first world countries as an escape.Africa has pockets of emerging markets, Nairobi in Kenya for example has one of the fastest growing economies.women play a major role in business and politics there, they are enabled.While many of us are glad to enjoy the many experiences, it's certainly not a privilege and i would just snort at being looked at as a number.I detest such a condescending, uninformed attitude.Social misfits exist everywhere, there's plenty local examples at every corner, not just the 2 Africans you are yakking on about
28 Aug 2014 1:58:21pm
Stella, I appreciate your efforts but you will have no impact on people whose prejudices are as deeply entrenched as our friend here.
I mean, wanting to restrict adult male immigration from African nations? Because the black men are harassing our women? No-one else is getting shades of 'Hey, where the white women at?' from this?
Nearly all sexual attacks against women are perpetrated by men. Therefore, we should rid society of men to stop these attacks. Same silly logic.
28 Aug 2014 3:05:56pm
Hi Ann
I am sorry if I am incorrect on the equality of women in Africa as compared with the West. I understand that I may be misinformed. But so might you. Is female circumcision more prevalent in Africa than Australia? From the information I have been exposed to, it is. However, I concede that the information could be incorrect, but it generally comes from otherwise credible sources that have no reason to lie about it.
If you think women in African countries enjoy the same equality as Western women, that is fine. And if you think me prejudiced because of my opinion re certain cultures, that is OK. I geneuinely hope that I am wrong. I could be as I have never been there.
Aussie Sutra:
28 Aug 2014 10:06:10pm
Having lived in Africa for many years myself, and being a woman, I can tell you first hand that women are the lowest of the low there, and Kenya is no different than anywhere else on that continent.
Aussie Sutra:
28 Aug 2014 10:04:03pm
Women are treated like sh*t all over Africa. There's a kind of democracy to it if you really want to think like that. And no, most of the people in Australia who arrived from Africa have clearly not arrived here because they are in some way better than others. They got their name drawn.
Chris L:
28 Aug 2014 11:25:35am
In part I agree with you STB, and I don't like our habit of adding more and more legislation to decide what we can and cannot say. It's a problem with both major parties as Labor worries about offending minorities and Liberal worries about upsetting commercial interests.
On the other hand, there may be a pattern of law influencing attitude. It seems to me that the recognition of women as equals slowly grew after legislation against gender discrimination was put in place. Similarly our acceptance of homosexuality is better now than it was when sexual orientation was added to the list of aspects we're not allowed to discriminate against.
On the other hand maybe we're just slowly, generationally improving regardless of law. Long way to go, of course.
28 Aug 2014 1:59:53pm
That's RIGHT, STB!
I too have noticed a spread of toxic cultures inside our lovely land.
Americans, for instance. Their hell-bent profit gouging capitalist systems have made a mockery of the fair go.
And the British! Their class systems and belief in the deserving and undeserving poor have ruined our egalitarian society.
These cultural malaises can hopefully be cured before it's too late for beautiful Australia.
28 Aug 2014 3:11:15pm
Ann, I can accept your rejection of Western values. But you cannot accept my rejection of certain non-Western values. Why am I "prejudiced" for criticising Islamic or African culture, but you are not "prejudiced" for criticising Western culture? I am genuinely interested in your explanation of such apparent hypocrisy.
28 Aug 2014 2:36:10pm
yes and why we must accept every barbarity in the name of being tolerant'? We are allowed to have Australians laws and values and insist on them being followed by newcomers. After all we have to follow the laws and customs of the countries which we visit...
28 Aug 2014 10:55:35am
From my observations we are a deeply racist country; the darker your skin, the more likelihood of experiencing racism.
Whether we are more or less racist than other countries, I don't know. I suspect the coffee shop owner genuinely thought he was reflecting majority opinion.
28 Aug 2014 1:07:28pm
I'd like to know which countries are NOT racist? Everywhere there is discrimination because of the various ethnicities. And the lighter skinned people have always seemed to have a better chance than the darker skinned people. In Cuba and the South American countries there have been white people in the highest positions for many years. Castro wasn't a native or black, neither was Pinochet or Peron. It's getting a little better now, with some countries voting for indigenous leaders, but most of them are light skinned (the lighter, the better, apparently). In Russia the people despise black people, right from when the first students went there from Africa in the 1950's. And it is extremely overt. In China the lighter skinned Chinese rise to the top while the darker skinned peasants and other ethnics stay at the bottom unless extremely lucky. In Japan you can be a third generation Japanese born of Korean descent and still not be able to be a citizen. In India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh a lighter skinned bride is greatly sought after. In America many black men aspire to marry a woman lighter skinned than themselves. Many black women say they would not marry a black men who is much darker than themselves. In many African and Asian countries, the biggest selling cosmetic products are those which profess to lighten the skin. Apparently the whole world is just absolutely obsessed about colour, light or dark.
28 Aug 2014 1:56:07pm
And from my experience, I suspect he was expressing his own views and it never occurred to him that others might not agree with them.
28 Aug 2014 2:00:33pm
A lot of people will point out that some Asian societies are quite racist.
And they are.
But so are Australians. C'est la vie.
28 Aug 2014 2:38:44pm
Rubbish. The vast majority are not racist. This is just being 'racist' about Australians by calling them racists when we are in fact the most successful multi-ethnic country in the world with very few racist incidents. The person who was being racist was a Chinese coffee shop owner, you ask the Chinese what they think of black people, they think they are inferior....
28 Aug 2014 3:43:17pm
I am a white male born in Northern Ireland and have experienced racist behavior. Irish jokes - very funny but apparently OK.
Peter the Lawyer:
28 Aug 2014 10:59:21am
Why are the left so obsessed with racism?
They hunt for it everywhere and draw the longest bows possible in this search for something with which to admonish their fellow Australians.
It doesn't matter.
Real racism is the kind you see in countries like malaysia where the government treats people differently depending on their race.
Individual racism is a social wrong, that is dealt with by society, as it was in this case.
I suggest the writer use his inestimable talents on real problems like the growth of government and regulation that is slowly killing civil society and ennervating our people so that they become dpendant zombies of the State.
28 Aug 2014 11:25:04am
"It doesn't matter." - tell that to the person who did not get the job. Tell that to the people who on a daily basis are looked down on. Tell that to the people who have been locked up, had families separated, been verbally abused.....etc.
It does matter, and it is comment just like this that perpetuates the problem through a sense of blanket denial. The refusal to acknowledge a weakness is not an excuse to just deflect the issue.
28 Aug 2014 2:33:37pm
And tell it to the male worker who busted his guts to rise in a company only to be not given it because the female to male quota was not right and the young inexperianced untried girl got it
The Skeleton Inside:
28 Aug 2014 3:05:45pm
Fair enough Mike,
But the opposite situation is far more probably - the female worker who busts her gust to rise in a company only for promotion to be given to a bloke, because he's one of the boys, and you know, a woman can't do the job properly.
That happens frequently
28 Aug 2014 5:18:28pm
yes that's true as well,it was just an example of how our world is not fair but people like luke heap all the blame on 1 colour,gender,etc
Sea Monster:
28 Aug 2014 11:31:33am
Maybe the same reason 'the right' is obsessed with sweeping it under the carpet?
The Skeleton Inside:
28 Aug 2014 12:41:55pm
The left need to be obsessed with it because the right are happy to let it play out, all free market like.
Someone has to do the right thing.
Basil C:
28 Aug 2014 12:50:49pm
PTL. I agree completely. I am a pudgy, white, English bloke and nobody calls me any nasty names - except when the cricket is on. I understand, however that were I to spend some time in Japan, that I might cop a bit of flack.
Put these facts together and I share your conclusion that racism is not a problem in Australia.
28 Aug 2014 2:29:01pm
How much more racism would you take before you thought that there was a problem? How many more attacks on jewish school kids? How many more people being denied work because of their colour? How often would you need to see racist rants on public transport? I'm just trying to establish your threshold. It would be a shame to benchmark Australia against Malaysia or Saudi Arabia. Just because we are better than the worst doesn't make us any good. We should aspire to better
Michael Mcgee:
28 Aug 2014 6:44:54pm
It is a problem in Australia, but that does not mean every Australian is racist.
28 Aug 2014 2:01:06pm
So if a young white man is denied a job because he is white, that doesn't matter?
28 Aug 2014 11:01:39am
Well written and an interesting mirror on our beliefs in this country. I am worried that the mirror that we should all be willing to look in and learn from, is being forcibly warped into a carnival style mirror by the current crop of "educated" politicians and business leaders to distract from the real nature of our societies greatest weakness - intolerance and our refusal to accept we have a lot to learn about it. What do people really want to see in the mirror image of our society? The "fair go" mentality being lived for real, or the "fair go" image only for some?
28 Aug 2014 11:02:51am
"what could possibly lead somebody who has been in the country for less than a year to conclude that this is the attitude of his newly chosen community"
The answer to that is pretty apparent - he brought his racial stereotypes and expectations with him. ...... and that does not make racism the 'language of Australia' as you so insulting insinuate.
Racism is not just a white only abhorrence. Perhaps the author should try some traveling.
28 Aug 2014 11:46:45am
Thanks Aaron. Saved me the trouble of saying it.
Undoubtably Australia has a level of racism and we should be trying to minimise and remove it.
I don't think we are worse than most other countries - in fact I think we are generally one of the more tolerant places.
Not sure if this is a good example. It is more likely the cafe owner brought his predjudices with him and hopefully learnt an imporant lesson about 'Australian' values.
28 Aug 2014 11:47:02am
Exactly, it appears to have been something of a self fulfilling prophecy on the part of the recent immigrant from Malaysia.
I recently spent an afternoon in Malaysia being driven around by a taxi driver of Indian extraction who complained incessantly about the institutionalised racism in that country.
Unfortunately the driver was also guilty of intolerance as he blamed it all on favouritism directed towards "muslims". I didn't ask him what the fate of Indian muslims in Malaysia was. I gather that he was a Hindu.
28 Aug 2014 2:43:10pm
Maybe the driver was right and it had to do with Muslims being favoured over Hindus?
28 Aug 2014 1:00:04pm
Yes Aaron he did bring his former prejudices with him - but as he suffered from our less obvious racism, he adopted Aus values that he had experienced.
But from our earliest white occupation/invasion we have tried to suppress and exclude all those who look and sound different to us. Our White Australia heritage is not dead - just gone deeper into our collective psyche. It continues to be reflected in the way we treat our aboriginal brothers and sisters, in our attempts to repel refugees (unless they're Christian at least).
Yes, I agree with you that racism is not "just a white only" problem. It is inherent in every society.
Our task is to develop greater acceptance of difference until we have matured (as we were doing under Hawke/Keating) and are truly accepting of all complete with every difference.
28 Aug 2014 1:01:35pm
"and that does not make racism the 'language of Australia' as you so insulting insinuate"
I am not insulted at all. Are you so perfect as to be above the issues discussed?
"Racism is not just a white only abhorrence. Perhaps the author should try some travel[l]ing."
You are assuming the author was indicating that racism is a white only issue - he did not at all in the article. You also assume that he is not educated through travel. Before you judge, get the facts correct.
28 Aug 2014 6:14:45pm
Yeah braddles I am insulted with every bloody generalisation that is flung at all Australians with regard to racism. I don't have any issue with
The article states 'that white people do not like to be served by black people' as the basis of the racist's attitude in this 'story'.
What this insinuates, braddles, is that the racism by the certain individual is the fault of his white customers and he is simply trying to 'fit in' and adopt to the attitudes of his country.
So what does this generalising, unsubstantiated drivel say about white people? What does this say about all Australians?
Now being a white person raised by Aboriginals as a baby on stock camps, having 'uncles and aunties' ranging from Chinese/Aboriginal to upper class whites; having 'Brothers' in New Guinea; working with for years with an engineering crew that resembles the league of nations and having spent the week before last in China and Taiwan (again).....I would say I have every right to criticise an 'article' titled 'A Nation of Coffee Drinkers...and Racists?' - especially when I think it is wrong.
Incidently, braddles you assume that the author is educated through travel, know this fact do you? On the basis of this article and my experiences I would say he needs to get out little more. Perhaps you should do the same.
29 Aug 2014 10:30:10am
Measuring the amount of various cultural influences an individual has is not a guide as to how much "right" someone has to comment on racial based issues. A person may have first hand experience of some racial based issues and therefore a particular area of discussion may be personally more relevant and important to them, however, others can still make valid comments. It also does not mean the person would be more "correct" in what they are saying as their views are only one side of the "coin". Racial issues are as equally commented on by all people, as everyone has the ability and right to create their own understanding of the issues at play. Your opinion is as valid a mine or any other person and thus I respect it, but I do not have to go along with it if I choose not to.
Again, you have read into my comments things that are simply not there. You have no basis to comment on my life experiences in terms of travel. I also did not assume a things about the author's education through travel, as there is nothing to assume from this article. If he has/has not travelled is not even remotely indicated in the article and thus I am not even remotely in a position to make any judgement on this matter (and neither do I want to).
28 Aug 2014 11:10:32am
It is interesting that someone from Malaysia, which is itself arguably a very racist society could find grounds for criticism of people in Australia. A lot of course comes down to expectations in that the people from other societies do not always get the responses they would like. There is a large gap in perceptions between the two parties. A person from Malaysia for example may consider he/she speaks perfect English while an Australian might have difficulty in comprehending his/her English (or Singlish as Singapore English is known). Undoubtedly a lot of these different perceptions result in accusations of racism.
There is of course the more overt forms of racism such as abuse, hostile treatment or clear cut discrimination. These activities are often criminal or at least illegal. However all societies will exhibit a certain level of racism generally generated by perceptions that certain groups are missing out in resources at the expense of other groups.
28 Aug 2014 1:27:26pm
"It is interesting that someone from Malaysia, which is itself arguably a very racist society could find grounds for criticism of people in Australia." That's not particularly logical. Why should a Malay fail to notice racism? Should they somehow be "innoculated" against racism because of institutional racism in Malaysia?
The original article does not mention whether the Malay student was Bumi Putra (ethnic Malay) or Indian or Chinese. If she were one of the latter, then she would be familiar with racism. Perhaps that's why she recognised it.
Racism in one country does not excuse it in another country.
28 Aug 2014 3:23:02pm
Erika, certainly racism can never be excused. We certainly don't know the background of the person but in a country like Malaysia, your own ethnic group will always favour you in employment. Hence if it is a Chinese owned newspaper, being Chinese is a decided advantage. If it is a government job, you have no hope unless you are a bumi. It would be very easy in these circumstances where the person has always been used to preferential treatment to cry racism if an Australian paper didn't employ her. Yet as I have suggested, her English may simply be sub standard making her uncompetitive in the market place. It is not uncommon for migrants to have an inflated view of their skills.
From the Fortress:
28 Aug 2014 11:10:37am
Australians can sometimes be a funny lot, or a weird mob, if you prefer. Don't like any number of immigrants or refugees, but so often, "Nah, don't like them in general. But the Sudanese/ Iranian/Vietnamese family that lives next door are quiet, hardworking and good people."
Applaudanum :
28 Aug 2014 12:15:27pm
This tallies with my experience, Fortress. There's a general scepticism toward the foreign 'group', yet a willingness to accept the individual.
I've found that older relatives and colleagues, mostly boomer, have a strange linguistic quirk that I don't think they're aware of. They'll mention a migrant they know socially, or at work, and emphasise the fact that despite bring a migrant, he/she is a really great person. For example 'I was talking to this Pakistani guy at work, really nice bloke, and he said ...".
Why do such speakers assume that we would jump to the conclusion that the migrant fella wasn't a nice bloke?
28 Aug 2014 2:05:55pm
Why do they need to point out that their friend at work is a migrant or a different ethnic group at all?
I work for (white, English) immigrants and I rarely bring up their ethnic background, unless referencing their past experiences in the UK.
I don't start all my stories with "so then my British boss says..."
29 Aug 2014 8:47:25am
I suppose such people mention it out of habit, where some kind of perceived anomaly has a bearing. Yet they quickly realise it doesn't have a bearing, hence the hastily added 'nice bloke' clause.
It's not just race either. It could be class, job, clothes, appearance. Keep an ear out for it and note who is doing it, it really is a kind of generational hypnotism, if you'll pardon my unfair generalisation.
28 Aug 2014 11:12:26am
Really I don't think you can draw any conclusions what so ever from the incident. Every individual bases his/her actions on the experiences that have occurred in their life. That can include more pervasive cultural practices but also more specific personal incidences and the social circle they have gravitated into. I've been assaulted twice - after getting off a train and walking to my car after a days work - for being a 'white ****'. Never been assaulted otherwise. Pardon me if I am cautious in making casual judgement of certain individuals. I have had good friends in just about every ethnic group but there is so many different individuals with 'chips on their shoulders' just itching to lash out it just seems to be rather normal human behaviour to be more comfortable in similar groups. Different appearances are easy to identify but it amused me in a city mall to listen to how many people were speaking a different language - but were 'white' - yet no one can spot that they are from (say) Norway and thus they can't be visually singled out (like Asians or Africans). If I see young males in a group, or an individual acting oddly etc. I will be very cautious - and if I find (as I do) that my caution is activated more with different cultural groups so be it - you can me racist and I'll wear it. I suspect the chances of conflict between two different groups is heightened - simply because one group may have an agenda regardless of the other groups specific action (different gangs conflict even though they can be the same ethnic groups). So 'group' or 'tribal' behaviour is very common and is often a strength for humans. On the other hand I am happy to meet/work with anyone of any culture if their behaviour is open and reasonable. In deed I find it enriching and enjoyable. So all in all I think it is a largely individual thing - show respect and civility to others and generally it is reciprocated. And if it isn't then the other person has issues.
28 Aug 2014 11:12:35am
An article questioning whether we are all racists because a Chinese immigrant assumed white people dont like to be served by black people... in a single coffee shop.
Presumably the fact that the customers stopped going there in protest would indicate that we arent racists?
BTW: creative non-fiction?
Perhaps you should ask that student to write a creative non-fiction story about what its like being of Chinese descent in Malaysia. That would open your eyes to real, institutionalised racism.
28 Aug 2014 12:01:43pm
Hoju very good point about institutionalised racism. The author seems to have had no experience of Asian education, where students don't disagree or even question the teacher/lecturer (even in Uni) would not (normally) do something to make fellow students feel uncomfortable and would certainly not criticize their host.
28 Aug 2014 2:12:57pm
Or maybe nobody wanted to be seen remaining sitting down in the cafe and therefore be seen to be OK with the public shaming of the racist act.
If an individual was the only person to witness the racism, and nobody else would know they were condoning it if they sat back down, how many people do you think would still have walked out? And how many would have sat down and not wanted to cause a scene?
28 Aug 2014 2:24:33pm
Its the same of how the chinese treat the non-chinese minorities in singapore ....
What's more Chinese companies are allowed to advertise job openings with this requirement: Ability to speak mandarin advantageous.
28 Aug 2014 11:13:23am
Great article, and it raises a point that is yet to be adequately discussed in this country, the level of casual racism. Offensive and racist remarks can still appear to be harmless to some, like Eddie Maguire and his "King Kong" remark while the Adam Goodes taunts were still fresh in the mind. Maguire obviously thought it was just some "lively banter" and seemed genuinely shocked at the level of negative reaction to his overt racism, it probably says a lot about the people he mixes with.
The case of the cafe owner shows that racism isn't a uniquely Australian flaw, and that people's ideas of the level of acceptance and what exactly constitutes racism can be quite varied.
28 Aug 2014 11:36:46am
Casual racism can just be banter as long as all parties happily understand this. Eddie's King Kong stuff up was well outside this because it very specifically referenced the then-recent incident with the young AFL fan's racist barracking which Goodes was well known to have found personally upsetting.
My (half-Chinese) step-daughter and (anglo) I get into racist banter quite often. It's hilarious. Humans have always related via the use of stereotypes. It's keeping it even and not making it one-sided which is the challenge.
28 Aug 2014 2:15:10pm
While I agree that there is always going to be some racist and even sexist and ageist and whatnot banter between people in an innocent setting, unfortunately the people who actually have real prejudices often see this as agreement with their viewpoints.
The same way most men would never rape, but when they joke about a drunk girl, the few amongst them that WOULD rape see it as confirmation that everyone thinks the same way they do.
So basically, you have to know the other person doesn't have prejudices for the banter to be funny. Racist jokes with my father-in-law, for example, are not very funny at all.
28 Aug 2014 11:23:37am
Luke fails to take into consideration in both the cafe case and the Malaysia student case the experience these people have brought with them. I live and teach in Asia and I can understand perfectly why the Malaysian student had concerns.
We have to tread very carefully in who we criticize these days (powerful elements in our society have respected journalists sacked for speaking the truth) but I will say it anyway. Luke should investigate racism in China before writing an article like this.
28 Aug 2014 12:05:26pm
By elements in our society I mean Australian society.
Freddie Frog:
28 Aug 2014 11:25:07am
The other option is the cafe owner has read the reams and reams of articles written by section of our media consistently decrying how racist Australia and Australians are.
He's been bombarded with whole sections of society wallowing in their self created white guilt every time an anecdotal story is brought up.
He was just following their lead.
29 Aug 2014 1:42:57pm
Really ? So you think this guy arrives from China, and starts up a coffee shop, which is a pretty busy activity, and probably reads chinese news, if he reads any at all, and you think he has somehow gotten his attitudes from the ABC ?
You don't actually know many chinese people well, do you ?
28 Aug 2014 11:25:34am
Racism is a perfectly normal and natural emotion and nothing to be ashamed of. Why do white people tie themselves into knots trying to deny this aspect of their human nature?
28 Aug 2014 12:01:55pm
You are correct John. A very strong driver of natural selection is favouring our own family-tribe- and race ie people who are more likely to carry more of OUR genes. It is totally natural. Anyone who says they are not racist (ie favours their own) is either lying (at least to themselves) or crazy (or on their way to extinction.)
I wonder how the Chinese become so successful both here in China and everywhere on the planet with those racist attidudes
28 Aug 2014 12:17:58pm
Let assume for a moment that your statement is true. "Racism is a perfectly normal and natural emotion and nothing to be ashamed of."
Why do white people tie themselves into knots trying to deny this aspect of their human nature?
Because its harmful to others. Because "nature" doesn't mean "correct". "Nature implies it was created by the same "mutate and see if we survive" system as everything else. Not everything in "nature" is for the better.
Humans have grown beyond nature. We do what we want. So we can either conveniently cherry-pick the aspects of our coding that apparently makes us be jerks and call it nature, or we can try and rise above this and not be jerks to other humans.
28 Aug 2014 12:47:00pm
I agree that racism is natural, though not that it is nothing to be ashamed of. I agree with you, we should be able to 'evolve' past it.
But what frustrates me is the prevelant view of some that only, or mainly, it's white people who are racist. People who are happy to say "Australians are racists", but would have a fit if I said "X are sexist/homophobic/violent etc".
28 Aug 2014 1:19:57pm
Thats the thing. Australians aren't racist. Australians as individuals are as varied and complex as anyone else. Unfortunately right now, collectively our PR sucks.
There's bigotry all over the place. There are non-white people that are racist. Sexism against males is totally a thing. Heterophobia may also be a thing (personally I've never seen this one). And these are all problems that will need to be worked out. However, the fact that these do exist does not negate racism against non-white people, sexism against women, and homophobia which are by the bigger issue over here.
28 Aug 2014 1:50:09pm
Racism is a learned behaviour. "Us versus them" does appear to be innate but defining "us" and "them" by skin colour or hair texture is learned.
The evidence from ancient Rome would suggest that people from many different backgrounds (including sub Saharan African) could and did integrate into Roman society and rise to what we would call upper middle class positions. (The Roman "us" was people who assimilated into Roman culture, "they" were barbarians who had cultures other than Roman.)
Racism as we know it appears to have arisen as a way of justifying slavery and colonialism. I suspect that it is so persistent, in part, because it taps into "us versus them" and because even stupid people can work out who "us" and "them" are. Said stupid people can then bask in the light of being "us" which is not something they get to do all that often.
28 Aug 2014 10:34:16pm
Erika, the ABC recently reported on a study you might have seen, which showed that people tend to choose friends that are genetically similar to themselves. Many studies, including with twins and adoption, have shown clearly that we naturally favour people genetically closer to us. Who we freely choose as ?THEM- is innate not learned behaviour. I suggest sub-saharan Africans (with or without dark skin and curly hair) are about as genetically different as is possible to caucasians. It is one human characteristic that the distinguished Australian philosopher Peter Singer (I may not agree with his politics but there is no denying his billiance) would change in humans if he could. Maybe our innate ?racism- is different from racism that justified slavery and colonialism but if our innate ?racism- sees those other people as ?THEM- then it must have made it easy to do.
Any history book will tell you that at least the aristocratic Romans clearly favoured their own family-tribe- people above others.
Did ancient Romans see some foreign groups as irreversibly inferior, thanks to NATURAL or INHERITED characteristics? Yes they did. See the book -The Invention of Racism in Classical Antiquity.
--sub Saharan African) could and did integrate into Roman society and rise to what we would call upper middle class positions.---
In 19th century USA, African American Frederick Douglass (among others) rose to upper middle class, does that mean there was no racism in the USA?
28 Aug 2014 8:03:26pm
Murder is also normal and natural.... what's your point John?... Leave Social Darwinism alone. If you don't know a beast, don't stand beside it!!
Sea Monster:
28 Aug 2014 11:29:58am
Okay that's what he thought. It seems from the backlash he thought wrong.
It seems from the backlash to Bolt's Law he was wrong too. It seems they've both found they're on the wrong side of popular sentiment.
That good news, right?
Sea Monster:
28 Aug 2014 12:01:52pm
Maybe the cafe owner assumed everyone was a racist as he was? Maybe he was projecting his own prejudices?
Why, after all, would he assume broader society would object to African's serving coffee but not Asians?
Peter of Melbourne:
28 Aug 2014 11:32:57am
damn you racism... you should go back to whatever bloody country you came from!
WHAT! racism exists in every country on the planet... NO! what australia is one of the most tolerant societies on the planet! that just crazy talk.
this author is just attempting to justify his monthly wage at the expense of our society. maybe he needs to go get a job in the real world, try being a barissta as they contribute far more to our society than the useless politically correct who suck at the teat of the australian taxpayer
the gist of this article is that a business owner who was raised in one of the most racist countries on the planet, China, acted in a manner which the recipient, a person from one of the most racist continents on the planet, africa (i am including tribal affiliations since tribes not nations define africa) was offended by...
yep that means all australians born and bred here are racist. stupid article, i bloody well hope this author was not paid out of the abc coffers for this rubbish.
28 Aug 2014 2:18:25pm
Ah so it's OK if Australians are drunk, racist sexists... as long as they're not AS drunk, AS racist or AS sexist as the next person.
Whew, hope none of the other countries raise the bar on us.
28 Aug 2014 3:27:31pm
Wow....your insightful analysis of this article so beautifully sums up the authors points....(you do get it that I am being ironic?)
Like many people above, you are assuming a lot of things not at all stated in this article. You are making assumptions that you can in no way make. e.g. "...get a job in the real world....." & ".....justify his monthly wage...." Please, focus on the issues raised - do not boarder on being the troll and making unverified assumptions.
28 Aug 2014 11:35:16am
I suspect the cafe owner wasn't reflecting anything of the year he'd spent in Australia, but rather the reaction that he would face from customers if he was running a cafe in his previous country.
Does Australia have problems and hard questions to face regarding our attitude to racial discrimination? Yes.
Is Australia home to a more racist society than what one experiences travelling the wider world? I personally don't think so.
Has the author massively over-interpreted this incident and what it means? That's a pretty safe bet.
28 Aug 2014 11:36:16am
Good article Luke and some great comments. As for Team Australia vs Team Islam, there is no team, there is only Australia. If you don't like it ( a very old cliche but still true ) get out and go back to where your religion drives out other non-believers.
And Yes to the comment about the chinese experience in Singapore, but you forgot to mention the Malaysian riots, did'nt you ?
28 Aug 2014 2:37:04pm
Team Islam? I must have missed that in the article. I guess if we can sub teams Team Judaism, Team Christianity, Team Buddhist, who all would regard this earthly nation as a speck in their version of the big picture, then Team Islam should be ok too. Likewise for team British-Australia, Greek-Australia and whatever other attachments might internally bind our society.
28 Aug 2014 11:40:40am
In my experience as a migrant who came here in 2006, we do not have a racism problem in Australia at all. To see racism, travel to Germany if you are not from an Anglo-Saxon origin, or France if you are.
Yes, there are some people out there who express their racism every now and then, but the few shootings in Sydney or Melbourne which most of them are related to organised crime does not make Australia have a gun problem like America.
A country that more than one quarter of its population are born in other countries simply cannot afford to be racist. Especially if that country is made of a majority of Anglo-Saxon people next to Asia. The same way that America had to open its doors to Latinos.
There is a huge problem here with Aboriginals though. And that is because the problem itself is misunderstood. It is not racism against them, it is pure ignorance that these poor people had virtually NO civilisation before the English arrived, and we expect some people who did not manage to have agriculture or domesticate animals (not their fault, there was nothing to farm or domesticate in this huge piece of land!) up until 200 years ago, to live in the most urbanised country on the plant amongst us in peace and harmony! and be part of our 21st century life style. It does not work like that.
So I suggest we stop pretending that we have a problem here in Australia with foreigners. We do not. But we have a BIG problem with the very real AUSTRALIANS!!! We better start fixing that. These people deserve better. After all it used to be their land!
Sea Monster:
28 Aug 2014 12:18:26pm
On the one hand we have to confront racism where we see it. I don't want to diminish that responsibility.
What irks me is this histrionic shift. Australia is a racist country. It distracts from the issue, I think.
Are we really talking about racism, or do we just want to agitate Australians? Instead of focusing on the problem we start making comparisons.
Focus on the behavior.
What about racist African caricatures in Swedish newspapers? More to the point, what about racist African caricatures in Chinese newspapers and pop-culture? Remember the racist flak Condelisa Rice copped there?
If you want to talk about Germany and France v Australia. Often my wife (who looks Asian but is Peruvian) tendered a note there she'd be met with a frown and it would be held up to the light. She cops some parochial crap in Oz when she's out in the sticks but this happened to her in major cities. Indeed in Strasbourg no less.
There's also the recent inquiry into neo-Nazi murders in Germany. 1 There was a string of racist murders. 2 The investigating policy refused to see it insisting on investigating non-existence terror links in the murders.
As I say focus on the racism. Lets have articles on the racism. Less of these meaningless rankings.
28 Aug 2014 2:21:12pm
In other words, I won't listen to complaints or tidy up my lawn until the neighbour's much messier lawn is put in order.
So this is why Australians won't support clean energy initiatives and a carbon price.
No fair making us do it first!
Sea Monster:
28 Aug 2014 3:02:30pm
No absolutely not. And I don't know how you could take that message from what I typed.
I say confront the racism of Australians.
I say confront the racism of Germans and French.
I'm saying don't get lost in comparisons. What I'm saying is the antithesis of what you're suggesting.
28 Aug 2014 1:42:27pm
I agree we are not a racist nation. I think the problem with the debate is the word racism has been corrupted.
True racism; a belief in inferiority based on genetic make up, is extremely rare in Australia.
I think what is present in Australia is cultural bigotry. Whilst not pleasant, it isn't' as abhorrent as true racism.
True racism should never be tolerated. Criticism of other cultures, can be tolerated so long as the debate is considered and healthy. Although in Australia it often isn't.
28 Aug 2014 11:41:06am
Everyone has biases for and against other groups of people. We have gone through a bizarre period where we thought that we could eliminate this by mangling language and the ever present Australian simple minded solution of banning it by law. This just doesn't work. To deny these biases is just another lie. It is far better to acknowledge your bias and then ensure that this bias doesn't influence your decisions.
Fortunately, with the large amount of world migration, we are able to experience many other peoples as individuals and realise that we are all more the same than we are different. Isms will probably never completely go away , but they will be reduced by facing them, not by trying to pretend they don't exist.
Basil C:
28 Aug 2014 1:01:29pm
Or.. Over the past seven decades we have been through a period of soul-searching when endemic racism was first acknowledged and then challenged. The realisation that it permeated our language, culture and institutions was confronting, but also presented the opportunity to roll it back and begin a long process of elimination. A combination of legal, educational and social changes have brought this about. This has not been easy and many people have been made uncomfortable along the way, but the results have been worth it. There is still work to do, at home and abroad, but the successes so far give great hope for an even better, fairer and more inclusive future.
28 Aug 2014 11:44:08am
It isnt racist to call an immigrant a racist when they are actually being racist
28 Aug 2014 2:22:41pm
Yes, it is.
Saying "the cafe owner said something racist" is factual.
Saying "the Chinese immigrant cafe owner said something racist" is bringing up race where it didn't really need to be stated.
What does it matter what race the racist is? Unless we want to paint a certain race in a certain light...
29 Aug 2014 1:31:53pm
"What does it matter what race the racist is?"
it matters very much when the author then embarks on racist sledging of white australians, when clearly the atttude of a very recently arrived immigrant from China cannot be blamed on them.
28 Aug 2014 11:51:43am
They're a Weird Mob, the book/movie of the 60's which portrayed our society from the eyes of italian immigrants, is alive and thriving in our right wing politics.
Hawke and Keating did much to instil a passion for multi-cultural acceptance and even celebration. Then came Mr Howard and we all turned xenophobic. We returned to our natural anti-otherness and adopted our old nationalistic fervour.
We (us white Australian, anglo-europeans) have always been proud of our inclusiveness - but only if you're white! We love to give each other a 'fair-go' unless you happen to be black, yellow or purple with pink spots!
The jokes that went around in the 60-70s leave a bitter taste in my mouth these days. Yet racism continues under the thin guise of Nationalism.
Right wing politics, for all its 'liberal' connotations, is staunch in nationalism. This is an "Us and Them" attitude which excludes anyone who has the temerity to be not of Us. We tolerate they who pretend to be like us... but of course, their colour/accent/verbal nuances betray them and we look down our noses.
Left wing is truly liberal and we should recognise that any nationalism is death to equality and acceptance and inclusion.
Peter of Melbourne:
28 Aug 2014 12:24:55pm
Hawke and Keating did much to instil a passion for multi-cultural acceptance
if that was true then we would not be having this conversation. your comment is just more sheeple bleating disguised as something else.
most australians dont give a damn about skin colour or ethnicity, however the multiculturalism which you and your ilk endlessly champion is the problem not the cure. it is a policy which promotes apartheid by minority groups in our society rather than integration. at the end of the day a society will not survive if it is splintered from within which will lead to suspicion and resentement from the majority.
many societies have faced such problems and those were people did not integrate ended up as failures. you lot better decide what is more important, your little ego's or the success of our society and the people who live within her.
28 Aug 2014 1:44:58pm
"...most australians dont give a damn about skin colour or ethnicity..."
Damn right Peter and well said.
What Australians (and others) don't like is being told who we can like and not like and how healthy banter between "consenting adults" can be taken totally out of context and called racist by someone who isn't even in on the joke.
28 Aug 2014 3:35:14pm
Joke? Racism is a joke? Have I missed the pun? There is no consent or "joke" in racism.
We have an obligation to all Australians to treat them with equality. This is not happening now in this country and we are a long way from this. We need to discuss this, we need to address this, and if people like yourselves want no part of this, why do you feel the need to patronise the people who are/have been victims of racial abuse by stating that no one cares about the colour of a person's skin or ethnicity?
Peter of Melbourne:
28 Aug 2014 5:07:34pm
ah so i am a racist when i banter with my italian heritage brother-in-law that he is an "EyeTie" and yet when he calls me a "SkippyTheKangaroo" that is alright!
you know exactly where you can shove your politically correct rubbish. i will treat people with respect no matter what their heritage as long as they treat myself and my society with the same courtesy. when such is not forthcoming then i will treat them in the same manner as they treat me and mine.
29 Aug 2014 10:41:32am
Respect is shown in the understanding of how every person may see your ethic based "light hearted" comments differently. Being mindful of the fact that what one person you know may see as OK, others may not, is respect. The context of the banter is important.
If you wish you dismiss my comments as rubbish, please do so. It shows your true understanding of the word respect.
29 Aug 2014 12:26:08pm
Wow what a wet blanket. IMO every granting of an Australian passport should be conditional upon the applicant's demonstrated ability to take a light-hearted joke without offense. I mean it's not like we expect them to cope with the full-blooded roastings we dish out to each other.
29 Aug 2014 1:29:56pm
Racism is a perjorative and prejudicial belief that other races are inferior.
What exactly is perjorative about "eyetie" ? Now if he had called him, "greasy", then maybe I would understand the problem.
28 Aug 2014 6:08:16pm
Nationalism is not nationalisation of businesses etc... it is inordinate pride in one's nation that considers others from other nations to be inferior... it is dying for the flag, it is what Mr Howard stirred up when he wanted to win his election then sat back of watched the racist riots that happened in south Syd as a consequence.
28 Aug 2014 12:03:47pm
Reality is that all people are racist. We all have our personal opinions about who we like or don't like to share our society with or employment with. Fact of life, a psychological problem that will never be resolved.
28 Aug 2014 12:04:58pm
I live in regional NSW and although I have seen some racism, it is most often frowned upon and shouted down.
However, it is interesting and important to consider what is racism and when it is not, (although let my qualify that I know from experience real racism occurs all too often) as sometimes I think it can be an overtly PC reaction.
As an example, in my town we have an Indian restaurant. The food is fantastic and my wife and I regularly get take away from there. We do not eat there however, as in the dining area is a flat screen TV that is always showing Bollywood movies at an extremely high volume. Some friends of ours were asking what the place was like and I told them about only getting takeaway and the reasons why and one of the friends told me I was being racist. I totally disagree. I responded by saying that if a restaurant was owned by white Australians and they were playing Terminator, the Rock and the like (the Bollywood movies played are always action movies) I would not eat there either. If nothing else, I was being too polite and concerned about the fact I may be taken as a racist, if I had given them some feedback on the "ambiance" of the restaurant maybe more people would dine in, as most people only get the takeaway, for the same reason I do.
She was not convinced, and now may well be telling people I am a racist, which I am not.
28 Aug 2014 12:40:37pm
'She' was not convinced because she's not a reasonable person or may be inflicting malice against you by being stubborn because she doesn't like you very much. who needs enemies when you have unreasonable friends like that?
28 Aug 2014 12:48:47pm
Oh there is nothing quite like the blind judgement of the smug self-righteous.
Angry Weasel:
28 Aug 2014 1:36:06pm
This is what I think is the biggest danger affecting social relations in this country!
On every twist and turn, you will always have to justify your words, your actions, before some invisible judge in order to show that you are NOT a racist.
If that is not Orwell's Oceania (from his 1984)--- a form of totalitarianism that is just as repulsive and odious as any expression of manifest racism -- I don't know what it is.
Point of all this is that Australians had much more freedom to express their views in public 50 ago (especially about foreigners) than they have it today. Even less will they have it in the future!
28 Aug 2014 12:06:42pm
To my expert mind 95% of Ozzies are not "racists".
They are largely Working Class folk.
Within the remaining %age that are we have to recognise that Universities Tutorial Staff by and large are - they teach that we are not all members of the sole Human Race - Homo Sapiens.
They continue to divide us under differing (sic.?) races should we emanate from differing parts of the Globe.
That leaves 2% that are the promoters of racism.
They constitute large land and mining lessees, in whose business interests it is to promote, in order to divide and rule the rest of us, "racism" by directly or indirectly funding "grants" to our Uni's and by funding lackey lobbyists to our State and Federal parliaments.
They also make substantial "grants" to religious bodies or hugely invest in their business branches such as Arms Mongering.
Ever taken part in their Credo - the "we are made of many races" Credo?
They fund those that splurge racist taunts in Public every now and then.
Their predecessors led the campaign to clear this large Continent - bigger than China - of the original inhabitants that had roamed its length and breadth for 60,000 years and more, upon European invasions, so that they, under then prevailing Common Law, could freely claim and freely pillage the "cleared lands" for themselves under "Right of "Sole" Occupation".
As we all would be aware Australis was divided into four "shires" by the Earls of England, each grabbing a quarter, without even seeing the place, upon the report back of Captain Cook to their Royal Admiralty, his employer and sponsor.
They kept and keep racism simmering by getting those with lesser as well as higher compos mentis to protest in favour of the One Nation ideology, that has, and still does, exclude those and their descendants that were here before the findings of Captain Cook and Co.
So, Racism is only endemic because of the success of land and mining lessees.
The one good thing, the only good thing, to come from this current Federal Government is to not overrule current anti-racism Law and the Constitutional Common Law Rights of Us All.
29 Aug 2014 1:25:32pm
Just a correction of fat there, this continent is not bigger than China.
China is the third largest country in the world, and Australia is fifth or sixth.
28 Aug 2014 12:13:37pm
"they don't like to have black people making coffee for them."
Whilst we're on the subject of creative non-fiction, which country in the World produces almost three times as much coffee as any other? Hating idiots isn't racist, is it?
28 Aug 2014 12:15:33pm
The owner was rude and bigoted, but at least he was honest in expressing his views, however misguided.
28 Aug 2014 12:16:47pm
The man who refused to hire a black man is Asian. The immigrants to this country are far more prejudiced than any Australian. Of course by Australian I mean white people.Anglo Celtic which are the people who built Australia.
29 Aug 2014 1:23:48pm
Yes, and isn't it strange that Luke somehow forgot to mention that ?
28 Aug 2014 12:19:00pm
i arrived in Australia nearly 20 years back, im originally english, still am actually, im now a dual national, i have a very strong, thick northern English accent, people tell me on a regular basis i have a 'wonderful' accent. I am as English as is possible, i got into a road rage incident (him not me) a few years back where i was kindly told 'youse should learn to speak f*%#ing english mate, p$** of back to where you came from', at that point i felt more Australian than i have ever have before, why? because i too was/am an immigrant.
28 Aug 2014 12:35:25pm
If I was born in the wrong country, I'd have no one to blame but my mother.
28 Aug 2014 2:28:59pm
I had to admit, despite being as ethnically white as mayonnaise, I still have more trouble understanding thick English and Scottish accents than the Indian/Asian/African versions of English.
As soon as I hear that Scottish burr I panic: "I hope I guess at least half of what he says correctly".
Funnily though, no-one ever wants the English and Scottish denied customer service jobs because their English is unintelligible.
28 Aug 2014 12:23:53pm
It is going to be a long , hard road, mate
28 Aug 2014 12:34:42pm
Whilst I think we should always be wary of racism, I don't buy the supposition that Australians are overtly racist.
I have travelled most corners of the world and once you scratch the surface of any culture you will find racism and rampant prejudice. It is I'm afraid, part of the human condition. And changing that, whilst an entirely worthwhile endeavour, is not going to be easy.
28 Aug 2014 12:37:26pm
Having travelled a bit really dont think we have a huge problem with racism. It exists and as this story shows when it raises its ugly head it gets hammered down as it should.
28 Aug 2014 12:39:45pm
This article is the best argument for reform of the University sector that I have heard so far.
28 Aug 2014 12:43:10pm
As long as our debt, sorry racism, remains low by international standards and is manageable then we do not have a problem that needs to be addressed.
28 Aug 2014 4:05:36pm
Bang on Esteban though, of course, some Lefties think Australians are the most racist people in the world.
28 Aug 2014 12:43:22pm
I just think its racist to keep telling Australians how racist they all are.
28 Aug 2014 3:18:30pm
Not so much racist as annoying. Apparently 'might be' is the acceptable standard of proof for today's eager young academic.
Jungle Boy:
28 Aug 2014 12:57:09pm
"downright ridiculous remarks against China"
Mr Palmer's remarks were neither ridiculous nor racist. His remarks were about the communist Chinese government and its cronies, not Chinese people (with whom Mr Palmer in fact showed sympathy in his remarks).
The Chinese government is happy to run over its own people with tanks. To describe such a government as mongrels is rather understated.
28 Aug 2014 3:27:28pm
From the opposite side of the political fence I share your dislike of Palmer. But you are correct in pointing out Palmer's tanty was directed at the Chinese government and its state-owned enterprises, not Chinese people at large. Presumably the Chinese press are just as happy to misinterpret remarks to appeal to their readership as our own.
28 Aug 2014 4:59:29pm
You mean that "the (Communist Party-owned and controlled) Chinese press are happy to misinterpret remarks to appeal to their Leadership"
Caffettierra Moka:
28 Aug 2014 9:13:02pm
And Clive Palmer is happy to take their money. Or he's happy to give them money, to make himself more money. What would you do if there was a billion or two heading your way? Tell them 'Heck no. You guys are so mean'?
28 Aug 2014 1:17:26pm
Clearly racism exists here. But don't tar all of us with the racist brush simply because some Australians are. To do so is to make the same mistake racists do and that is to judge people based on superficial characteristics such as race, religion or nationality.
28 Aug 2014 3:46:39pm
Some Australians are racist: some racists are Australian. Being Australian of European ancestry does not define you as racist. It is a person's attitudes, words and actions that earn them that appellation. The big problem is that Australian culture does have a history of institutionalised (White Australia) and informal racism, and the problem still surfaces, often when we least expect it.
29 Aug 2014 1:20:49pm
When we least expect it, indeed. Who would have thought that the entrenched racism in China was the fault of white, anglo-saxon, christian australians ?
28 Aug 2014 1:18:26pm
The whole reason, putting aside how wrong, for not employing a Brazilian to make coffee, seems bizarre to me.
How many here can put their hands on their hearts and raise their hands if they ever, even once, associated China with great coffee.
28 Aug 2014 1:20:18pm
In my view immigration and multiculturalism in particular is a shambles. Australia needs to be far more discriminatory in determining who can become a citizen. Certain religious and ethnic backgrounds should be excluded in the interests of peace, contentment and security. Ideally we should cease immigration, and start paying less desirable people to leave forever.
I resent successive governments filling my country each year with more than a quarter of a million foreigners, whose mentality and culture is so totally foreign to mine. The government ought to call a referendum, instead of continuing this undemocratic rort.
It amazes me that half-wits like Johnson seem to believe racism is peculiar to white Australians. All people are racist some of the time. It is part of human social nature. No laws dreamed up by do-gooders will change that, nor will they stop people choosing whom they want to hire in their business.
Johnson criticises Palmer's remark as ridiculous. Well, they weren't so ridiculous. They Chinese government did shoot its own people in 1989.
28 Aug 2014 3:52:42pm
"Certain religious and ethnic backgrounds should be excluded in the interests of peace, contentment and security." Thanks for the idea, Robert. I agree that we should exclude white Anglo-Saxon Christians. Many of them obviously have a hard time adapting to our multicultural Australia: they are renowned for their intolerance of difference.
28 Aug 2014 1:29:38pm
If I read the article correctly, the offending shop owner was Chinese, as someone offended by the shop owner's remarks suggested he return to that country.
The difficulty Australians have with racism, real or perceived, is that our western standards (and laws) don't apply equally to everyone else on the planet. We seem to think that racism is something that white anglo-saxons are guilty of against persons of other races - not the other way around.
I know many people whose ethnicity is different to mine, be they Asians, Afro-Americans or people of any other complexion. Some of us get along fine, with others the relationship can be strained at times, but the friendship is still there, a testament to all concerned.
With my dealings with these people, I have found that some of those races are virulently and openly racist if you give them an opportunity. The thing is, such comments are not made maliciously, they're simply trumpeted as facts. And who can deny facts? When I've suggested that what they just said could be interpreted as racist - and therefore potentially punishable - they become even more incredulous. What? Punish me for speaking the truth?
So was the offending shop owner just being true to form? I believe he was. I don't believe that he has or had any thoughts of ingratiating himself towards his "white" customers - he was merely telling the situation as he saw it. So let's be careful how we judge. We're all different in many respects and much the same in others.
Lord Erebus:
28 Aug 2014 1:29:40pm
My own experiences with racism are rather interesting. My appearance is that of a tanned, sandy blonde haired, blue eyed, Anglo-Saxon male. I'm not. My father was born in what was Palestine, now Israel, in 1931. My mother was born in Glasgow, to an Irish mother and Scottish father. They both moved to Australia at the end of WW2 with their families. I'm first Gen Australian, but look and sound like a convict. My sister, however, looks Middle Eastern, with dark hair and eyes, and olive-brown skin. She was teased heavily from 2001 onwards, called a terrorist among other things. We're Jewish, not Muslim, although the vast majority of Australians we've met don't know the difference.
People are fine around me, until they learn of my background (it comes up from time to time), then they are weary of me, being more cautious and closed off... difficult when you're a Psychologist. Thankfully, I don't really care, as I AM racist... I dislike the idea of race, color or creed being anything more than a passing interest. The sooner we all realize our heritage is unimportant, the sooner we can all move past it and get along.
28 Aug 2014 1:32:16pm
I think this episode shows australians are not racist by the way people reacted but I am sure lots of inner city types will spin it around to say we are,if someone keeps getting called a racist by everyone they will eventually become one
28 Aug 2014 1:39:12pm
Strangely enough, I found the employer's overt racism quite refreshing. At least he was honest/up front about it, and it could therefor be dealt with. As a number of posters have observed, if he'd refused employment without stating his reasons, whatever they were, we never would have heard about it. Meanwhile, in the real world, racism, ageism etc are rampant: it's just that Australian employers are savvy enough to keep their reasons for not employing someone private.
28 Aug 2014 1:40:40pm
Surely there's an element missing from the author's analysis. The experiences, beliefs, and backgrounds of the two key figures - the Chinese restaurant owner and the Malaysian student - colour their own view of race and racial issues as well as of Aussie attitudes to race.
Having lived in a variety of societies, not all of them European or white, I know that racism is as common in Asian societies as in Australia, and is seldom challenged in the way it can be here. That's not to say there isn't plenty of racism alive and well in Australia, but it is to say, someone from another country may have brought his own racism with him and simply assumed everyone here shared what he'd grown up with. This incident might indeed say nothing at all about Australia.
28 Aug 2014 1:53:24pm
This article is nonsense, written by someone with no practical experience of Chinese people and culture. The cafe proprietor exemplifies Chinese attitudes towards people of color. His response to the job applicant reflects his childhood upbringing and cultural norms in his country of origin. His reactions have nothing to do with the country in which he now apparantly resides.
28 Aug 2014 2:02:42pm
You don't have to be white or Australian to be racist.
Yes, there is a definite perception internationally that we have racist undertones in this country because of our treatment of non-white refugees and the indigenous people, however, that has nothing to do with this story.
What I see in this story is a Chinese man bringing his own racist perceptions to the country and trying to justify his actions by using the "when in Rome" argument!
He did mention in another report that he believed that only Asians and Whites made good baristas (a racist perception).
Racism has had thousands of years to grow internationally through war and propaganda and hatred being passed down from generation to generation.
To eradicate racism we would need global conditioning of all races over generations and that's not going to happen.
It is not something that can be vanquished with the stroke of a pen or the implementation of law.
28 Aug 2014 2:40:04pm
You don't have to be white or Australian to be racism, but the members of the dominant group need to understand that their behaviour carries much more weight and has much more of a social impact than the actions of a minority. Both a wrong. One has a much larger affect. We can't stop racism anywhere but here
29 Aug 2014 1:13:25pm
So, China, with its monolithic, insular, three thousand year old culture, with almost no cultural infusion from outside, and until like 2 years ago a minuscule proportion of its population who have ever travelled, is like the Titanic.
But this incident is all the fault of white Australians ? Your denial of reality is breathtaking.
It's true. We can't change China. But it is about time that some of the racist Chinese in Australia were called out on their racist behaviour. Why does this never happen, ever ?
28 Aug 2014 2:11:18pm
No big deal ... Its a common thing among the chinese. When was the last time anyone saw a caucasian or a dark-skinned person, cooking or waitressing in a chinese restaurant .... or in any other line of work for that matter? Chinese only employ chinese. See for yourselves. Even the jobs here are reserved for their own migrants .... and it is so easy to get PR in Oz ..... just say u are a cook .,... why not? My sources tell me about 500+ cooks got in as skilled and essential workers. Just a fraction of the 250,000 new aussies we will welcome this year.
Common sense:
29 Aug 2014 3:37:44pm
A small point, but important: Australia's settler arrival numbers since the mid 90s have never been over 158,000 - quite a difference from the 250,000 mentioned.
And the net population increase on that 158,000 figure was only 70,000. Ie 80,000 people left that year. So we're hardly drowning under foreigners.
BTW surely you know that you should look for restaurants full of people of the same ethnicity as the restaurant. ie a Chinese restaurant full of Chinese staff and Chinese customers is probably going to be pretty good. :)
28 Aug 2014 2:25:32pm
Some cultures are racist and that's how they like it.
Most of us simply do not care, nor do we care for being preached at by such as yourselves, it isn't going to change the way we think.
But do go on, we love the comedy and hysterics you all get up to trying to prove how noble and virtuous you are, right up until an issue comes up that snookers you - like a white man being shot in America by a black man, and no outrage at all.
Like the head of Collingwood football team making racist remarks but it's ok because he isn't a 13 year old girl who is easily picked on.
It's about the side, and not the principle, we get that
So this whole debate, if you can call it that is just to try to get up the nose of people on the "other side"
I don't believe for a moment the coffee shop owner said what is reported, it's a beat up - no one is that dumb
Common sense:
29 Aug 2014 3:40:32pm
A very smart person once said, "No one ever went broke over-estimating the stupidity of the general population."
If the owner didn't say it surely he would have said he didn't when asked, rather than have his business close?
28 Aug 2014 2:30:58pm
Actually Chinese people themselves are very racist, especially towards black people. he was speaking the racism of the Chinese people, not Australians. After all, none (or 99.9% at least) of us would not blink having coffee served to us by a black person, we are a truly multi-ethnic country and a very successful one and peaceful one at that.
28 Aug 2014 2:33:47pm
I agree with those who know or believe that all cultures are racist to an extent. Australians whose grandparents were born here may be curious, even critical of some of our newer residents but as a population we have less reason to be racist than most because of the number of different races which make up our country. Happily, we have many cultures in Australia and as we get to know one another better and our children marry outside their cultural group we will become less and less concerned about ',different' people
I have just as much trouble with the author's presumption that he expected racism in shearing sheds or whatever regional site he chose to place the teller of the 'joke'.
I live in regional Queensland and I have found my community to be generous and welcoming on the whole to new citizens. There will always be those who mouth off particularly when they have had too much alcohol but on the whole they are in the minority just as are those who are genuinely racist. My community is pleased that new citizens who choose to live in our midst bring with them new customs and are willing to share those customs with us.
28 Aug 2014 2:39:04pm
Luke is white so he is a racist,if he believes what he writes or is he the only white who is not in his eyes?
29 Aug 2014 1:05:22pm
He's the sort of white person who has been to Europe 20 times and doesn't speak or read a word of chinese and has never been to China, but he thinks he is an expert on how chinese people think.
28 Aug 2014 3:44:12pm
Q&A on Monday was a revelation that heralded multiculturalism as being a great success! Now I ask where else in the world has it been great success?
In fact almost everywhere in the world, from the South Pacific to the Americas to Europe and to Russia and let's not forget the Middle East the most despicable of them all in terms of violence and slaughter... In fact anywhere there is a clash of culture involving different religions multiculturalism has failed and failed miserably with violence, and deaths evolving from the lack of tolerance.
As yet It hasn't blown out to the devastating proportion in Australia only because the population density of ethnic groups has not as yet grown to to an extent where the festering discontent spills over to intolerance followed by violence ... just as it did post the 70's in England and look at the mess in England now with Sharia Law areas actually off limits to all but Sharia practitioners...
The trouble is that it's too late to do anything about the oncoming mess because of Labor's need for numbers for the seats in Islamic dominated electorates.
Those that criticise "Team Australia" better have a rethink
28 Aug 2014 8:30:03pm
When was the last time you were in England? There are absolutely no off limits areas in the UK because of sharia law. There are plenty of areas that different people daren't venture into and for plenty of reasons. None of which includes sharia law, a concept I'd bet a peanut that you don't have the foggiest notion of.
Let's take the NSW seat of Lakemba for your lesson. At the last election for the Legislated Assembly (that's the lower house to you) 43% of those eligible voted for the Liberal candidate. In the Legislative Council (upper house) the coalition candidate got 48.57% of the first preferences. Labor got 24.05%.
One major argument against women getting the vote was they they'd all vote together as a block and take over the world. Do you even know what happened? Muslims don't "vote muslim". The Australian Muslim community votes along the lines of individual political preference. It doesn't vote as a block. The only discontent on the verge of festering over, is yours.
28 Aug 2014 3:58:23pm
It's easy to be racist, it's less easy not to be racist, but it can be achieved. Just mix up with everyone, talk to them, interact, open your mind... befriend, fall in love, marry... and step by step, racism becomes more limited in society... it takes time, but it can be done....
Angry Weasel:
29 Aug 2014 1:26:53pm
This is what university staff tells to their students. This mantra is repeated at all venues without any thought or reflection.
Your first sentence is full of ambivalence when you say that it is much easier to be racist than anti-racist. Perhaps the term "racism" has been gradually extended, extended far too much to include all sorts of negative feelings which naturally arise when you pack diverse people too tightly together.
The studies on impact of Tourism on domestic population do not show beneficial outcomes in terms of sustaining communities and good social relations. Especially when the tourist is culturally too distant from the domestic population. The impact of Tourism can often be compared with the impact of immigration on domestic space. Tourism causes increased commerce, circulation of moneys, and massive private profits, all which is a totally different concept than building bonded communities.
29 Aug 2014 2:38:29pm
Now give us one example of where what you propose has worked...
28 Aug 2014 4:04:46pm
It would be nice if Luke Johnson could tell us exactly the kind of racist discrimination or abuse this Malaysian woman is suffering on an almost daily basis? Is she abused, spat on, stared at, what? The fact that there is NO detail speaks volumes.
29 Aug 2014 1:03:20pm
Perhaps she was a Malaysian Muslim who was disconcerted that she didn't receive entrenched statutory preferment that she was accustomed to in Malaysia ?
28 Aug 2014 4:14:17pm
Utterly ridiculous that you dare to link Palmer's and Lambie's factual and racially neutral comments, which the vast majority of Australians agree with and know are true, to this racist attitude by the Chinese cafe owner, which the vast majority of Australians would condemn.
Palmer and Lambie criticised the Communist GOVERNMENT of the so-called "People's Republic" of China. A regime which the record shows is the most bloodthirsty, murderous and oppressive regime ever to have existed in the entire history of the world, bar none, having slaughtered over 100 million of its own citizens and those of other countries, merely for failing to publicly endorse the Party's anti-human agenda and beliefs.
Most of the people of Chinese descent who are in Australia are here precisely BECAUSE they or their parents or grandparents camne here to ESCAPE from the Communist government such as those granted permanent residency in Australia in the wake of the Tien An Men Square massacre (which differs from a thousand other similar massacres by the current regime only in that the world's TV cameras captured it).
As for your Malaysian student, any residual racist attitudes among Australians are non-existedf in comparison to the overwhelming and LEGALLY INSTITUTIONALISED racism in Malaysia. Surely it is the latter which explains your friend's oversensitivity to any anticipated racism among others.
29 Aug 2014 9:22:34am
The problem with Australia is that manners, courtesy, respect is not high on the agenda. Boorish behaviour, filthy language and no respect for anyone or anything is the norm. This is across all areas of society from politicians, tv and radio personalities, sportstars and the average person in the street.
29 Aug 2014 12:37:48pm
I agree we could certainly improve in those areas.
But given the choice between the two, I would rather put up with boorishness, rudeness, filthy language and disrespect, than to be refused service, a job, a uni place, or bashed or killed because of my race, as happens routinely in Malaysia and many other countries.
28 Aug 2014 4:28:15pm
It find it saddening to see that amongst 188 comments made so far, only 3 of them (including my previous comment) have mentioned Aboriginals. Apparently people like to talk for hours about some fictional problem that does not exist, rather than acknowledging the existence of Aboriginals.
28 Aug 2014 4:50:55pm
You "find it saddening" that most commenters stick to the topic of the article, instead of bringing in extraneous issues (at least the particular issue you mention). How curious. I find it refreshing.
28 Aug 2014 4:53:15pm
My friend I do not know any aboriginals. I don't get the chance to discriminate against them, even if I wanted to. When I did drive cabs I once picked up a young aboriginal firebrand (in those days). He would not talk to me. I was not upset. (How are you these days Gary?). Others I met I reacted to positively and negatively, just as I would every other passenger. If they were drunks I probably reacted negatively, just the same as any other passenger. That is as it should be, people being judged on how they present themselves rather than their skin colour. Unless you disagree?
You can't give yourself brownie points. Here, give them to me.
28 Aug 2014 4:41:11pm
About 50 years ago I married a black woman. Some years later we went our separate ways but I have kept a weather ear out for the sort of racism mentioned by Luke ever since.
Now I stress that I haven't "researched" this and my comments are the results of anecdotes and observation, but I would say that Luke's contention that this coffee shop owner expected the support of the general public is misguided. This sort of racism is more of an exception rather than a rule in Australia. Of course, there is very real and blatant racism, but the situation has changed significantly. My three daughters, roughly the colour of Barack Obama, have married "white" men and I would admit without any satisfaction at all that these men are "less racist " than I am.
When I taught in China, there were a number of Indian and Phillipino teachers who were given a hard time by parents of children in their classes. Some were even sacked. This sort of thing goes on all the time without raising any concern within the community, and the fact that people like Luke in Australia consider it to be the subject of an article is in itself an indication of where we are going on this.
We are generally a long way ahead of many of our Asian neighbors. I hasten to add, however, that we still have a long way to go.
28 Aug 2014 5:20:39pm
We are a long way ahead of some societies... we are behind others... we have a long way to go either way.
I'm glad to see someone else see it in this way!
And I think, once you do see it this way, it follows that articles and viewpoints that try to paint "Australia" as somehow inherently racist do more harm than good, as they provoke an inherently defensive response that increases division and restricts progression.
Common sense:
29 Aug 2014 3:53:41pm
Generally agree.
In my travels to 36 countries I think we've managed to do diversity pretty well.
However, we're a little lucky in some respects - it's hard for us to have border disputes with anyone since we're an island a long way away from most people; and we generally don't realise how well we've got it (ie unless we're Aboriginal and had our whole culture destroyed we don't really have a lot to complain about when compared to most countries).
Hansonism, Tampa and race to the bottom by both parties over Boats were certainly instances where our collective empathy evaporated as politicians try to tap into some deep-seated xenophobia in an effort to gain votes.
Imagine if we really did have serious tensions with neighbours and those types of incidents occured? Would we behave any differently to many other parts of the world ... ?
28 Aug 2014 4:43:25pm
This is a very unconvincing piece of writing. As many have written the most likely cause of the coffee shop incident is that the recently arrived owner was airing his own prejudices rather than an assessment of the mindset of the inner city clientele, more likely to be eager to show their liberal tendencies, given the younger age and mixed cultures on offer. Unless perhaps it was an early opener coffee shop.
The Malaysian student anecdote doesn't ring true I'm afraid. I am not doubting those were her impressions but I am not sure they were well-founded. It would have been helpful to hear what her experiences were and with whom she had interacted rather than just her judgment. There is a large Malaysian Chinese community here and among the people I mix with racism is not an issue they raise. Could the young lady's sensitivity be what led her to creative writing? An introspective bent? The need for secrecy seems odd at least. From this distance I suspect other issues are at play. FWIW I do empathise with her.
My own impression is that racism is most prevalent amongst those feeling disempowered. I remember driving cabs in the eighties. A fare was a fare in those days and I was grateful for them. One day I picked up a couple of Aboriginal labourers in the rain. Talking to one of them he said that Greek and Italian cabbies wouldn't pick up Aboriginals. How true that was I can't say, it was just a comment made. It did occur that people struggling to establish themselves in a new society might often try to do so by keeping their foot on the head of those below them on the ladder. When people become more secure of their place in the world they are more relaxed about differences. Happy for others to express a different point of view here.
I also believe personality plays a large part in how others react to us. If we are shrinking violets we are easy prey for those who feel the need to impress others. If we are more magnetic and people want to be around us it wouldn't matter how we looked, we would rarely be subjected to racism.
Similarly people who call each other idiots etc on these pages are displaying their own insecurities.
28 Aug 2014 5:15:56pm
I enjoyed reading this more than I enjoy reading many of the articles on The Drum. Many very sensible points... thanks!
Pastor Farian:
28 Aug 2014 4:53:14pm
I am a white Australian. In the Mt Isa Centrelink (or whatever they were called back then) in the late 90's I asked about applying for work in a new mine. I was told they were only interested in hiring aboriginals and Torres Straight islanders. Any vacancies not filled by these two groups would be opened up to 'other' Australians at a later date. Being told you have the wrong skin colour to get a job by the Australian government no less.
28 Aug 2014 8:16:26pm
Is that the experience from which you developed your extraordinary empathy for minorities?
28 Aug 2014 5:51:04pm
The question is , are we any more racist than any other country ?
We never had the KKK, and although our history has not been squeaky clean, I think that on the whole we are no worse than most countries and better than a lot.
28 Aug 2014 6:20:37pm
Not sure about the KKK. As I understand it Queensland has had some very odd extremist groups taking root there in the past, out in the regions. Or perhaps that was people trying to paint a picture.
28 Aug 2014 5:57:13pm
Sadly this story is correct, australians do have a problem with racism and sydney is the most snobbish city I have lived in.
28 Aug 2014 6:18:02pm
The city is a collection of communities each with their own distinctive cultures. You can't extrapolate from one area to the rest. I am curious how you figure out whether people are reacting to your race rather than you personally?
28 Aug 2014 6:07:49pm
Finally someone asking the question of where the Asian-cafe-owner's thinking was coming from. What is sad is that Australians again handled this in a racist manner, and blinded by their own self-righteousness cannot even see it. Instead of forcing this new immigrant out of the business, and by the very act behaving in a racist manner (i.e. go back to China), perhaps they could have educated him by demonstrating that we are welcoming of immigrants and willing to forgive their mistakes. This way we only enforced his view of Australians being racist, albeit selectively.
Bobby Zero:
28 Aug 2014 6:08:55pm
It's his business and he made a business decision. That's all.
ian gill:
28 Aug 2014 6:14:04pm
Part of the reason I left Australia in 2009 was intolerance and racism. After 5 years in Indonesia, I can say racism and intolerance is alive and well in many pockets of this country. An interesting lesson to be on the receiving end I can advise. I am quite ready to return to a hopefully more tolerant Australia, believe me, and I hope my Indonesian wife and beautiful daughter do not cop any rubbish. I would not stand for it straight off the bat.
Michael Mcgee:
28 Aug 2014 6:41:20pm
This cafe owner is a racist, that does not mean the whole nation agrees with him, and if you think they do, well that is just an opinion, isn't it. The definition of bigotry is making sweepins assumptions about a group of people or nation.
29 Aug 2014 12:58:06pm
By that definition, Luke Johnson would have to be Australia's biggest bigot.
Boris McMahon:
28 Aug 2014 7:17:02pm
An interesting article. Interesting in that the writer avoided mentioning that the cafe owner was Asian.
28 Aug 2014 7:22:46pm
"It's about my experience of being a Malaysian immigrant living in Australia"
In 2014? Don't believe it! Half of my fellow-students in the 1970s were Malaysian and they loved it here, and we loved them.
michael mazur:
28 Aug 2014 7:38:38pm
Better be dead than racist is where weaponised ABC is leading us, as we will be by 2100.
Israeli owned ABC doesn't want us to be racist, but happily allows the mass murder of 2,200 Gaza innocents. Mass murder is fine, but racism is not.
How so ?
By lying about everything that is happening there, covering up Israeli serial war crimes, in order to deliver that mass murder outcome.
28 Aug 2014 8:40:55pm
Chinese man refuses to employ Brazilian man at Sydney coffee shop. Oh dear. A distant drum begins to beat, thumping out the same old tune ... Australians are racist .... Australians are ...
Quote: it's even more shocking that he thought he was speaking the accepted language of the whole country.
Stated with such certainty. You know unequivocally what the Chinese man was thinking. Did he tell you personally?
28 Aug 2014 10:04:38pm
I have been living in Malaysia for about five years now and about to leave and return to Australia. My view is it would have to be one of the most racist countries I have ever experienced. The Chinese hate the Malays and Indians, the Malays hate everyone and the Indians don't get a look in, meanwhile they Malays are trying to white out the British influence held over a couple of hundred years. And she complains about Australia and it is the only country in the world that officially supports positive affirmation of the Malay majority. Dear me.
28 Aug 2014 10:08:36pm
I have thoroughly enjoyed reading this article. I am not enjoying my post mixed feelings however, it's weird to be juggling with one hand a proud and thankful ball for those who took a stand and turned their heads in the face of discrimination and on the other hand a ball weighing down in disappointment and sadness for the sheer fact that this type of behaviour can happen in the first place. A tip of the hat to the writer for delivering a great article.
Mark of SA:
29 Aug 2014 12:54:26am
"The remarkable thing, however, is not that people came to his support, but that the owner of the caf? must have felt equally confident that the crowd would rally behind him: that he seemed quite earnestly to believe that he was indeed speaking the language of Australia." What nonsense this article is.
This article seems to be inferring that the perpetrator of this abuse is actually "the victim" and that he only did this because he came to live in Australia and we "polluted" his previously pure as the driven snow, totally unbiased mind.
I have to wonder why Mr Johnson thinks it is remarkable that a person will come out with outrageous statements where he/she thinks everyone around them agrees, when they actually don't.
29 Aug 2014 2:29:53am
So a business owner (who is a new immigrant) tells a job applicant (who is a new immigrant) that he can?t have a job because he is black and the customers of the business, who objected to this, are racists because it?s not really the fault of the business owner, it?s the fault of the customers?and you see nothing laudable in the actions of the customers in standing up for the black job applicant?
Did you perchance notice if you got a dose of vertigo while you were thinking up a way to extract a negative story about the ethics of the customers who stood up against racism?...oh, wait, this is an example of that creative non-fiction (or the fiction you write when you?re not writing fiction) course that you teach at Uni, right.
29 Aug 2014 7:40:45am
Interesting that this guy chooses to talk about what 'all Australians' think/do based on one joke from 20 years ago and the fears (?) of a Malaysian student in HIS class, worried about HIS classes response. This leads him to a broad brush sweep of 'all Australians'. And WHAT is creative non-fiction? Sounds like fiction to me.
29 Aug 2014 8:10:14am
I get the sense from this article that the author is trying to tell us we are ALL racist. It can't be that, like any normal distribution curve, there are those who are and those who aren't. Hopefully those who are not racist are in the majority and a growing proportion.
But while I am on the subject, I was in Athens last year calmly sunning myself with a coffee and the International Herald Tribune, when I realized the young Greek guys at the table next to me were speaking in broad Australian accents. Imagine my surprise when I heard them laughingly discussing the stupidity of the Australian Government in paying their dole payments whilst on holiday, and their repeated references to our noble line as "Skippies" and morons.
So I'm assuming shortly that I'll read a similar article on the racist attributes of our immigrants. Or should I just conclude that all Greek-Australians are racist?
29 Aug 2014 8:38:21am
We've had this message rammed down our throats for the past 25 years, that 'we' are a nation of racists. Tell someone that they're something for long enough and they'll eventually live up to the expectations, even when the belief is at odds with the evidence. There are racists in every country- try living in the middle east or in india for a while if you want to experience purebred racism. And what's china's reaction to the arrival of illegal immigrants on their shores? That's right, we don't know, because it's never happened. There are racists in this country, many of them are the new arrivals we bend over backwards to please, but it is not a racist country. This is merely a lie being peddled by vested interests, like the sorry industry, clever entrepreneurs who are making a fortune out of politics correctness and our gullibility.
29 Aug 2014 8:49:51am
I love people of all races as long as they're decent people who know how to get along with other people...
I must be a true racist!!!!
Or is a true 'racist', someone who loves having a punt on anything first past the post, whether it runs on four legs or two?
All this talk is enough to drive a sane person into hoping for someone - anyone, to come up with some unifying sort of concept like belonging to a team; which is probably the whole point of "team Australia" - namely, recognise just how this whole over-the-top reaction to the supposed 'racist' nature of ALL Australians is getting up the noses of even those Aussies who wouldn't normally even contemplate something as ludicrously childish as "team Australia", to the point where they not only contemplate it; they may even end up endorsing it.
How sad that the inability of some people to take a look in the mirror at themselves before they start writing about the "racist" nature of ALL their fellow citizens based solely on the actions of a few aberrant numpties, could well lead to the alienation of the very people they're hoping to bring further into their fold via the constant attempts to shame.
The bigger shame is the more the boy cried "Wolf!!!", the more those who would have come to his aid started to ignore the constant cries of "wolf!!!"
And once the boy had cried "Wolf!!!" enough, that nobody came to his aid, he no doubt cursed those who now ignored him, rather than accepting his own part in creating his own situation...
29 Aug 2014 8:59:18am
This is an incredibly poor piece.
A little research would have helped.
The example given (the cafe owner) is himself a new arrival.
I think there is racism in Australia but there is every where. Enough with the self-loathing ABC!
29 Aug 2014 8:59:40am
Guilt by association - Newspeak bigotry. The utopian, rabid multiculturalist bigots see the BIG R everywhere & must root it out ruthlessly. In doing so they create a totalitarian environment where rationality is distorted and paralysed. In Rotherham over a period of 16 years from 1997-2013 at least 1400 under age children were raped, threatened, trafficked .... The fact that the perpetrators were all Muslim men of Pakistani descent combined with the repressiveness of the BIG R hysteria paralysed the police & child care authorities so much that they did not take the kids claims seriously, allowing this to continue for 7 years longer after they had been warned. Since the kids were trafficked between cities, one may presume that there a a lot more victims. The elites want to start living in the real world rather than the ideology of their minds
Anthony from Sydney:
29 Aug 2014 9:09:03am
This author hasn't travelled much to write this superficial essay. Has he been to Malaysia where racism is entrenched into the socio-political structure? There are limits on what businesses certain races can own, how many Chinese can go to university etc.
Racism is entrenched there so why didn't he ask this bold Malaysian journalist these questions. She isn't afraid of ruffling a few feathers! What a joke. You can be jailed in Malaysia for blasphemy.
Breach of peace:
29 Aug 2014 9:15:16am
Racism has been around for a long time and it will still be around for a long time more unfortunately... It doesn't matter about colour as their are blacks that do not like other blacks and there are Asians that do not like other Asians and so on. It does not have to be black and white as in this example or yellow and white to be more precise. Australians, whoever that breed of people are, have reacted in defence of the black male barista which is a healthy sign, particularly the employee who resigned. Most people would not react with such conviction of losing their income. There will always be those who take a stand for those who are oppressed in one form or another but it is never the majority.
29 Aug 2014 9:43:26am
Australians (the white variety) are the most racist on the planet - can't stand them!
29 Aug 2014 12:29:22pm
Really? Compared to the people which other country?
There is racism in every country, even Australia if you look hard enough, and we can always improve, but apart from some Latin American countries and maybe a couple of micro-nations, Australians are the LEAST racist people on the planet.
29 Aug 2014 9:58:15am
I am offended by the prevalent assumption here that, just because I'm white, I must be a racist.
Anyone, from any country or any ethnicity can be a racist - or not. Just because the caf? owner is a recent immigrant from China, doesn't mean he's not a racist. Clearly he is. His moronic assumption that his customers would agree with his obnoxious attitude just goes with the territory. Smart people tend not to do stupid stuff.
Racism is rife the world over, not just in "white" countries. We must all try to combat it and speak out against it, whenever possible.
Bill Anderson:
29 Aug 2014 10:17:40am
Given the media portrayal of Australia, both here and internationally you would think that we are the most racist country in the world. The Cronulla riots blow-up is a perfect example. This was not a riot, it was a disturbance that involved half a dozen drunk white guys trying to get revenge on anyone who happened to look middle-eastern it was immediately sorted out with many of the people protecting and defending the people who had been set upon. Had you been in many other parts of the world, and I know because I have been to many other countries, you would have been as good as dead, as no local would have got involved, in fact some would probably have joined in. Then just to add insult to injury they would have blamed you for the whole thing.
Bei Le :
29 Aug 2014 10:48:48am
I disagree that the cafe owner was attempting to adhere to the wider Australian mindset, mainly because I live in China and the racism against people with black skin is fairly open and shocking. I'm white and get people pointing at me and yelling "foreigner!" As I walk down the street, I often catch people secretly trying to take photos of me, people I know with black skin walk down the street to a chorus of "hai ren!" (Black person) and are approached by people openly asking for drugs - the assumption being they are a drug dealer. I have seen and heard of countless examples of very overt racism toward black people in China, including an English teacher I met who quit her job when her bosses decided it would be better for the school to fire all non-white teachers, no matter if they were native speakers or not. A Chinese friend recently started dating an African-American man, her Chinese friends are shocked and her parents refuse to even meet him, she has greeted this reaction as if it were normal. I'm not writing this to claim China is racist - or that Australia is not - just that it's far more complicated than "Chinese man is racist, probably Australia's fault". What the cafe owner said is absolutely in no way acceptable in Australia, but it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if it were acceptable in China. Australia has racism it's just more subtle - if an Australian didn't want to hire the man because he is black they would not have openly said that, and this would not be a story. Hopefully, if any good does come from this story it will serve to create a conversation about racism in Australiam society.
29 Aug 2014 12:48:56pm
Your reply is too sensible.
To the ridiculous correctness-weevil, of course the blatant racism of chinese people in china, is all white australians' fault.
29 Aug 2014 11:48:47am
What a load of twaddle.
The cafe owner had just moved to Australia in the last few months from China. His whole life has been spent there - not in Australia.
Has anyone on this forum actually been to China?
Could it be possible that his views are actually views he has held himself before he arrived in Australia?
Living and working up here I can very confidently suggest that his attitude is common (pervasive) in China.
His comments are absolutely not attributable to some kind of racist osmosis caused by his immersion in cosmopolitan East Sydney - in fact quite the opposite as is evidenced now by the notoriety caused by his views.
Rather than self flagellate we should take this episode as something that affirms our values.
Angry Weasel:
29 Aug 2014 2:21:49pm
The problem with the Chinese cafe owner is that he was too keen to appear a good businessman. A good businessman tries to anticipate the feelings of his customers, be they of positive or negative kind!
That is his Right!
His only fault was that he expressed his Real reason too openly in public.
If he was a bit smarter and discreet, he could have found a dozen other reasons to reject a potential job applicant without mentioning his nationality or race.
One of his mistaken assumptions was probably that Australia is a Free Country, a country of free speech, as he might have imagined it, and as he was told in China. He did not imagine that Australia is full of "moral entrepreneurs" in academia and media circles who are just too eager and zealous to discover cases like this to go on filling their time with Fault Finding Crusades.
29 Aug 2014 11:53:56am
Why does the owner assume that every of his 'white' customer don't want a 'black' men making coffee? Very presumptuous of him. There is a market for every side of opinion/taste/prejudice and it doesn't matter if you like it or not.
In the Aussie spirit, give the man a go and if your business is dropping you have the right to give him the flip whether he is black, white, yellow.
29 Aug 2014 1:57:58pm
Actually, the belief in the superiority of a particular race, or the dislike, intolerance, etc. of a different race is called "Racialism".
"Racism" is little more than the the theory that particular traits are determined by race. For example, to say that an Aboriginal has dark skin, is a "Racist" statement. Nothing wrong with that.
To state, however, that Aboriginals are less intelligent than Caucasians is "Racialist".
Unfortunately, like so many other words ("Empathy" vs "sympathy" comes to mind) its fashionable misuse by lazy people over time results in global acceptance. And then the Dictionaries pander to the trend by including new definitions of words that were never intended.
It's not language "evolving", it's just shoddy usage.
29 Aug 2014 3:20:48pm
The First Australians here are dark skinned (lucky buggers). 50,000 years. Anyway, I'll never understand racism...ever. As for skin colour it is such a minuscule difference in DNA, so small it is completely irrelevant...it's just a colour. Having said that I would love to be dark skinned, particularly in this sun burnt country.
29 Aug 2014 3:36:29pm
I understand it can be done with melanin skin injections. Hope you get to enjoy your black skin. I can't see it catching on though.
I'll enjoy my white skin.......in the shade.
29 Aug 2014 3:59:22pm
Side effects of long term melanin injections are not known. I've had melanoma...nearly killed me, I was 17. Thanks for your wonderful input into the debate, shame you missed the point.
29 Aug 2014 4:32:40pm
I am not making excuses for that cafe owner, but he was probably not as up to date with the modern times as he should had been.
I suspect he still thought Australia is like the bad old days when the Aborigines were badly treated. Although the situation is better now, but one has to be rather naive or optimistic to believe that there is no "Black/White" differentiation in Australia still.
Check out the success rates of job applications, if you have doubts.
By the way, why wasn't that Bailey woman gets thrown out of the train carriage when she racially abused an Asian woman? As far as I am aware, only a handful of people objected to her racial rants.
29 Aug 2014 4:54:25pm
Websites like this and others are constantly banging on about racism in Australia. It's hardly a surprise that immigrants who have no idea about Australia will just assume racism is rife. The media and the clowns who upload videos of 'bogans behaving badly' are the real culprits here.
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