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|July 11, 2014, 12:48 PM
Junior Member
Join Date: July 10, 2014
Posts: 2
Looking for an Economic Rifle
I'm looking for a rifle that is under $500. I want a rifle in either .30-06 or .270. It needs to be a high-quality low-price rifle. So far I'm looking at the Ruger American, the Marlin XL7, and the Savage Axis II. I've read good and bad things about all three and am looking for some input. I need more than just a single word answer. I need to know why I should go with the any rifle. I'm looking for something that I can hunt with, but also shoot at over 500 yards. I want it to be accurate, reliable, and accurate. Very accurate.
|July 11, 2014, 12:56 PM
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Just put this in another thread. Howa 1500/ Wetherby Vanguard suits just what you described IMO.
|July 11, 2014, 01:08 PM
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One of our local gun stores has the Savage Axis with a cheap scope on them for just over 400 bucks, in several calibers ...... full size or youth.
They have a couple of Mossberg ATR's, also scoped with bargain basement glass, for just a hair over $300.
It'd be darn hard to beat that price point, even with a used gun.
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|July 11, 2014, 01:11 PM
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Location: Starkville, MS
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Vangard/Howa (same rifle, different name) is a step up from the Axis. I've only seen one that didn't shoot sub-MOA. The one that didn't needed just a simple stock bedding job to become a sub-MOA shooter.
|July 11, 2014, 01:32 PM
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Posts: 464
I have a Mossberg 100ATR in .30-06 that is a consistent sub MOA shooter. It shoots a 150gr Hornady Interlock at 3/4" groups at 100yds. I paid $317 out the door for mine and I'm very happy.
For a $300-$500 dollar range look at the T/C Venture of all the budget rifles I've shot and held it has the nicest trigger and smoothest bolt of them all. I'd reccomend a Weatherby/Howa but my Weatherby S2 will not shoot to the same POI for its life.
|July 11, 2014, 01:40 PM
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Of the three you listed, I'd pick the Savage Axis II over the others. I'd also choose it over the Howa/Vanguard rifle. (and I say this owning a Howa 1500 and being quite happy with it)
"More than one word answer" why: Savage only does rifles. Their reputation for quality and accuracy at a decent price point is pretty much unmatched. And the Savage Accu-Trigger is, in my opinion (my very novice rifle guy opinion...), the best low-buck trigger that any rifle has ever seen. It's not the best trigger ever, but it's -BY FAR- the best deal in a low-dollar setup for a trigger I've ever come across. And if you want to wring accuracy from a rifle, the trigger is, IMO, a pretty big part of that.
Savage over the Mossberg: the Mossberg rifles don't impress me in the slightest. They make a solid shotgun and I wouldn't be surprised if eventually... they just go back to doing what they do best.
Savage over the Marlin: Marlin's bread & butter is a well-done lever gun, Savage is a bolt action rifle maker. I haven't had the chance to play with a Marlin bolt action rifle, but it'd have to under-cut the Savage heavily in price before I'd ever consider it.
Savage over the Ruger: Ruger makes a nice array of products all across the board that incorporate decent serviceability at a working man's price, but SO many of their newer products have teething issues that almost seem like beta-testing by the buying public. Again, Savage is a bolt action rifle maker and I don't see them ever sitting behind Ruger in a bolt action rifle.
Savage over the Howa/Vanguard: this is going to be a far closer race, in my opinion, until you get to the price tag... and then it's just not going to be close. A Howa is a fine platform to build a rifle, but the package deal of the Savage Axis just seems to be unmatched in what you get for the outlay of cash. Of course, that's with regard to the Weatherby Vanguard. If you compare it directly to the Howa package as Legacy Sports offers them, now we've got a real race on our hands as the price is going to be much closer.
In the end, though, you're choosing between a flourishing American builder with a long history and an importer offering a Japanese rifle. I re-iterate, I have a Howa and I've been much impressed with it, but I bought a stripped down closeout rifle for low bucks and mounted my own optic to it, you're talking about purchasing a package deal that's ready to run.
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|July 13, 2014, 11:45 AM
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Location: Central Pennsyltucky...
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Having had a Vangard in .243Win. I would definitely vote against buying one!
Weatherby claims 1.5" at 100 yards out of the box.
While it did that for the first 3 rounds, any more rounds out of it opened up grouping exponentially!! (aka 4-6 were 5", 7-9 were 12") This is after letting the barrel cool for about 5 minutes between groups.
Was the only gun I was ever happy to see go!!!
Having shot the Axis, American, and some others, I think I would personally save a bit more and get a Tikka T3 Lite.
If I had to stay below $500, I would probably get the Mossberg 4X4.
Of course I don't buy new guns, I prefer the older Savage/Stevens that I can get for under $300.
|July 13, 2014, 05:47 PM
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Join Date: November 25, 2002
Location: Campbell Ca
Posts: 1,090
Put me in for Savage as well
Accurate rifles right out of the box. I can get an Axis at my local Gunshop for a tad over $300. Take the money you saved and get good glass.
|July 13, 2014, 05:56 PM
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Join Date: July 21, 2011
Location: Idaho
Posts: 7,729
500 yards with a budget rifle is kindof pushing it. you cant have great quality and low price all in one anymore. I would suggest the Ruger american. yes it has a lot more plastic in the design than most and it sure aint pretty but where they cut costs with synthetic stock and mags, they don't with the actual operation part of the rifle. I believe a user here, Duzell, uses a Ruger American in 243 at long ranges routinely and likes it. If I was looking at a lower end rifle the American is what I would choose. Marlington rifles are not exactly well spoken of whenever I see it discussed(then again I'm not very interested and don't spend a lot of time discussing them) and I just never liked the looks of savages so I don't really pay any attention to them.
ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar.
I never said half the stuff people said I did-Albert Einstein
You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin
|July 13, 2014, 06:48 PM
Senior Member
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Location: Alaska
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If you are going to do the long range then you really need a more dedicated rifle for it and that will cost more.
Unfortunately no one makes a target 270 or 30-06 (in US, I think Sako or Tika does overseas but you can't get them here)
You would have to put one together (least expensive would be a 1903 receiver with a custom ordered heavy barrel).
Target, varmint, sniper 308 of some type. I think Savage does that, I don't think Ruger does.
I would check contours, if they use the same blank for 270 and 30-06, you might be able to get a heavier barrel in relating to caliber going with a 270.
A Winchester Model 70 (used!) might get you there as well. While the pre 64s are supposedly better, for the average user the newer ones are solid as well and reputed to be pretty good accuracy (I have not had one so that's an unknown)
Get a Pre 64 and its god some collector value and in those calibers in the $$750 are, 270 and 30-06 are common and not as high priced as the rarer calibers.
PenciL hunting barrel are not stable, they tend to hold only good for 3 shots and not more (until they cool off a lot)
Last edited by RC20; July 13, 2014 at 06:55 PM.
|July 14, 2014, 12:04 AM
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Howa / Vanguard !!
|July 14, 2014, 12:10 AM
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|July 14, 2014, 12:25 AM
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I would suggest a Savage, but the Axis does not come with the Accutrigger. A Savage Long Range Hunter would fill the bill, but does not come in those calibers and is MSRP of $1,140.
You really need to define your NEEDS better as to what you are looking for.
Si vis pacem, para bellum
|July 14, 2014, 05:54 PM
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Join Date: February 13, 2014
Location: Flathead Valley, MT
Posts: 2,187
Your answer (among the choices you listed) is:
Marlin XL7
The other two you mention have something very undesirable in a hunting rifle: a detachable mag to lose.
I do hear very good things about the Ruger American...if you could just weld the mag in.
But better yet, spend an extra $50 ($410 instead of $360), and get the superior T/C Venture - 5R rifling in a $400 rifle? You kidding me? I'd be on that like a duck on a june bug if I didn't already have a bunch of rifles, and an aversion to ugly plastic. I may get one yet though in 6.5x55 and get a new stock for it.
But honestly, you're not limited to those rifles with your budget, if you go used. You said $500, not $400 or $350. You can get a used rifle of very high quality if you look around for that price, since those chamberings are so ubiquitous... usual suspects: Winchester 70, Browning A-Bolt / A-Bolt II, Remington 700, Ruger M77, etc.
Sure the basic Howas / Vanguards are just in the price range as well, or a fancier one if used.
Last edited by Unlicensed Dremel; July 14, 2014 at 06:01 PM.
|July 14, 2014, 05:59 PM
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Location: Idaho
Posts: 7,729
excuse me? detachable mags in hunting rifles are bad because you might lose them? in a flush fitting mag you are as likely to lose your floor plate as you are a detache mag. I have been hunting quite a bit in my short years here and I have never lost a magazine, and I have been hunting in rough hard terrain, thick brush, long hikes, banging my gun off rocks and tree trunks... plenty of those rifles used detachable box mags.
ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar.
I never said half the stuff people said I did-Albert Einstein
You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin
|July 14, 2014, 06:03 PM
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|July 14, 2014, 06:16 PM
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5R rifling is old tech hyped up. Its only benefit was for the army's old open based bullets and does nothing for OTM style bullets or closed based bullets. I've always prefered a detachable mag over a floorplate or blind mag, simply due to the ease of loading/unloading.
Of those I've only played with the axis and weatherby. I'm not sure of the larger calibers but two friends have the axis in .223 and they are both incredibly accurate for how much they cost. I started looking into making my weatherby .308 more accurate and instead just bought a savage max-1 in 6.5 creedmoor because it'd of cost the same. I've read (but never used) the ruger American was pretty accurate out of the box too. It's been rated over the axis in a couple of gun rags, but I never believe the performance stated out of them as the guys paying them are the same ones who stuff they're reviewing.
I know that boyds carries laminate stocks for the savage, I think they do for the ruger as well so you might as well add that to the cost of either and pick which one has the features you like.
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|July 14, 2014, 07:03 PM
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One of these like oldscot3 suggested. The 300 WM would curb your need to purchase another hunting rifle. {its so eye catching handsome Sir!!}_
|July 14, 2014, 07:26 PM
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Location: Missouri
Posts: 1,039
I can't speak personally to the 3 you suggested originally as I have never owned any of them.
I own 3 rifles that will do what you want. First a 30-06 TC Venture. It has been a very good rifle out of the box despite the aggravation of 2 lawyer motivated recalls. Hopefully that is all over.
Second a Weatherby Vanguard in .270. The rifle shoots way above my ability and I understand the new S2 versions have a fantastic trigger right out of the box.
Third a Model 70 Winchester in .243 which probably wouldn't make the 500 yard grade because of the caliber. I bought mine used for about $375. Took it home and cleaned the heck out of it an removed all the fouling in the barrel. Factory loads shoot under 1.5" at 100 yds and my handloads are even less.
Of the 3 you originally mentioned, all have good reputations overall. My advice would be to put your hands and eyeballs on them and choose the one that feels best and looks best to YOU!
|July 14, 2014, 08:11 PM
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Per your specifications & in the price range you mention, look for a decent, used Winchester Mod 70 or Remington 700 ADL/BDL.
|July 14, 2014, 10:03 PM
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Unlicensed dremel,
it's a wonder that the millions upon millions of military surplus rifles out there with detachable mags even have them intact anymore, enfields, K31s, svt40s, G43s, M1 carbines, not to mention the AK47s and M16s that militaries of today use, I can't imagine the number of mags that go lost with those... those guns go through a lot more stress and abuse than your average hunting rifle. you're welcome to your opinion but you are describing a one in a million possibility for failure and passing it off as a design flaw.
ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar.
I never said half the stuff people said I did-Albert Einstein
You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin
|July 15, 2014, 02:28 AM
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Location: Ft. Polk
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Tahuna, in military rifles the magazines are considered disposable items. They're stamped metal and expected to be tossed. You can buy them for $10-$30. Most of the hunting rifles I've seen are twice that and much harder to find.
I also have loaned a rifle to a friend and he'd lost the magazine for about a month because he was keeping them seperate and his wife moved them. FWIW, of course.
I still prefer detachable mags as I find them easier to load and unload. There's no fumbling around in the cold trying to hold the rifle and load it or picking up or trying to catch flying rounds as you unload it. I'm sure some will think it's just super easy and they can do it blindfolded with one hand tied behind their back, but I can't.
Freedom's just a word. If I'm gonna die for a word, my word is jello...
|July 15, 2014, 04:50 AM
Senior Member
Join Date: April 21, 2008
Location: new zealand
Posts: 856
If you want an accurate rifle straight out of the box that will require little to no modification I recommend a Tikka T3.
They have a very nice smooth action, and very well made barrels.
Beautiful triggers that are easily adjusted, and the plastic stock they come with are nice and light but still rigid.
Someone will say that they are no good as a hunting rifle as they have a detachable magazine and cannot be easily loaded through the top particularly easy, but neither is really a huge concern.
I know many many people who have them and are yet to loose a magazine, and the idea they magazine release may get caught in the bush is pretty moot. In New Zealand they are extremely popular and we have some extraordinarily thick bush here, and I've never heard of it being a problem.
|July 15, 2014, 05:57 AM
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Join Date: April 30, 2008
Location: Texas
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Looking for an Economic Rifle
The Weatherby Vanguard is a good choice.
|July 15, 2014, 07:36 AM
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Out of the options, I'd go with a Savage but I've only ever handled 110s.
Another cheap choice is a NEF. Around $300 buys one new and will last for many years.
Detachable magazines in a hunting rifle? I don't see anything wrong with that although I like the hinged floor plates better. Detachable magazines in hunting rifles are popular with road hunters.
|.270 , .30-06 , marlin , ruger american , savage axis
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Ok, let me say that what you see above there is their headline for the press release and not mine, and I'm just not going to go there about size not mattering.. I guess I did though huh?! Seriously though the Cydle M7 MultiPad is something that I want, but i think I want everything I see relating to Android. It's supposed to be coming out in November in the US, Europe and Korea but I don't see a price anywhere.
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Oiling cartridge cases can be dangerous and other mishaps
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September 10, 2012, 10:35 AM
Mike Irwin
Join Date: April 13, 2000
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I'm familiar with Hatcher's Notebook and the issues with the cold welding of the bullets. I've not read it in some years, but as I recall it Hatcher notes that, due to the cold welding issues, it was know that chamber pressures were increased and that is why bulletins were issued to ALL National Match shooters telling them NOT to dip their bullets in grease.
As Hatcher also notes, and as is apparently still backed up my Army records, the only issues at those matches were with shooters who ignored the issued bulletin and greased their bullets.
Known issue with higher chamber pressures with tinned bullets, but no known rifle problems in military service.
Issue revealed to National Match shooters in a bulletin.
Bulletin tells shoots that, because of the known issue, bullets should NOT be greased.
Some shooters ignore bulletin and have rifle issues. Apparently no one who abided by the bulletin had issues.
I don't see anything of a coverup there.
As for withdrawing the ammunition -- I don't call that a coverup, I call that a prudent move given the demonstrated failure of some shooters to abide by the warning bulletin.
The only "finger pointing" I see in Hatcher's notebook is that which is RIGHTLY placed on those shooters who read the bulletin and, in effect, said "Consarn it, I dab dub dun do knows bettah than this har Armee fella! He ain't but not know nuttin about shawtin! I been dipping mah bullets since ah wuz a lad, mah pappy dipt his bullets, and his pappy done dipt his bullets!"
So, sorry, I dont' buy your contention that "It's all Hatcher's/The Army's fault."
"So, the main point is, are greased bullets dangerous, as Hatcher said?"
You know, I distinctly remember Hatcher not saying that greased bullets are dangerous. He even said that it was a common practice to prevent fouling.
I do, however, remember Hatcher saying that it was a dangerous practice when combined with bullets that had cold welded into the cases.
That's what the entire bulletin issued to the National Match shooters was about.
Unfortunately, I'm away from home this week, but I'm going to have to dig out my copy of Hatcher's notebook and re-read this section.
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Source:The History of Northern Wisconsin, Vol II. Chicago: Western Historical Pub. Co., 1881, p. 539
School teacher, notary public, solicitor and conveyancer, P. O. Hika.
Born May 22, 1840 in Bavaria. Came to St. Louis in 1860, and taught
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text: I had the same question and colored my hair about a week ago. I read conflicting opinions on the internet and decided to go the conservative route and wait a week. Even then I only used a little to calm down my frizzies on 2nd day hair. I plan on doing a CO pretreatment, low poo, and PT tomorrow which will be about 10 days after my coloring.


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All hail the empanada, that self-contained foodstuff so popular in Latin cafés, bodegas, convenience stores, and bakeries. Every country has its own interpretation of the pocket-sized meals: Colombia offers a crisp, fried corn shell stuffed with rice and chicken or beef and potatoes. Argentine empanadas — like the kind produced daily at Manny's Bakery — are like little gaucho pies filled with chunked chicken or spinach with cheese. This West Broward bakery is frequented by Latino families, especially around lunchtime. That's when it makes South American-style "butifarra" sandwiches from the crusty, flaky bread it bakes, along with big tamales wrapped in banana leaves. You can get a big sandwich and a drink for under $8. The empanadas, though, are hard to pass up. Under $2 a pop, these pies sport a crust that's sweet, buttery, and dense, with a dusting of flour on the bottom and a glossy egg-wash glaze on top. Manny's gives these an Argentine twist by cubing white-meat chicken and bathing it in guiso, a tomato-heavy sauce flecked with cilantro. Manny's is planning to move soon (the new location is yet unknown, but the owners plan to stay in Coral Springs). Be sure to visit before they make the haul.
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Intoxicating Substances/Solvents
Volatile Substance Abuse - a guide for businesses
Volatile Substance Abuse (VSA), commonly known as 'glue sniffing', is essentially the inhaling of fumes given off by a wide range of substances found in everyday products.
The supply of these substances to people under the age of 18 is controlled by the Children and Young Persons Act 1966:
- it is an offence to supply or offer to supply a substance to a person under the age of 18, or to a person who is acting on behalf of a person under that age, if you know or suspect that the substance is, or its fumes are, likely to be inhaled for the purpose of causing intoxication.
Substances may be supplied to persons under the age of 18 for legitimate, i.e. intended, uses.
A person found guilty of an offence is liable to a fine of up to £5,000 and/or six months imprisonment.
What is an intoxicating substance?
One of the most distinctive factors of VSA is that the substances abused have legitimate everyday uses. Many products commonly found in homes, schools and workplaces may be used for the purpose of VSA, for example, in the average home there are over 30 such products. For a detailed list for businesses, please contact Paul Dawson on 686513.
Recognising the signs of VSA
Some of the more obvious signs:-
- the smell of glue or similar on a customer's clothes
- a customer behaving in a drunken manner - slurred speech, glazed eyes, unsteady on the feet, drowsy, confused and possibly even aggressive
- spots and sores around a customer's mouth and nose
- a customer purchasing a product that may be used for the purpose of VSA frequently or in bulk
- a customer purchasing plastic bags and a product that may be used for the purpose of VSA at the same time
Bear in mind that the age at which young people experiment with intoxicating substances is generally much younger than for illegal drugs and that death due to VSA often occurs during or immediately following the first occasion on which a young person experiments.
Enforcement of the law
This Office enforces the law and takes steps to reduce instances of non-compliance by:-
- educating and advising businesses
- investigating complaints
- using young volunteers to attempt to buy age-restricted products - the volunteers behave as ordinary customers under supervision - strict guidelines ensure that the exercise is fair
Good advice
- refuse to sell cigarette lighter refills if the customer is under the age of 18
- refuse to sell a product that may be used for the purpose of VSA if the customer is under the age of 18 and cannot give you a genuine reason for buying the product - ask for proof of age and keep a book to record details of refusals
- identify products that may be used for the purpose of VSA and consider moving displays of the products concerned nearer to or behind the counter - consider displaying dummy packs
- make members of staff aware of the products that may be used for the purpose of VSA and advise them on the action they must take - ask them to read this information - we can supply copies on request
- EPOS systems can be used to remind staff of age restrictions via prompts - alternatively, place stickers over the barcodes on products that may be used for the purpose of VSA
- display statements in the counter area of your policy regarding sales of products that may be used for the purpose of VSA
Judging the age of a customer
We strongly recommend that you only accept the Isle of Man Government's Proof of Age 18+ Card produced by this Office (for more information on the card click here), a driving licence or a passport as a means of establishing a customer's age.
The law exists to safeguard the health of young people and, whilst we prefer to achieve compliance by educating and advising businesses, we may in some circumstances prosecute offenders without warning.
We are always ready to give advice to reputable businesses, so please do not hesitate to contact us.
This information is not an authoritative interpretation of the law and is intended only for guidance.
Useful website:
Visit www.re-solv.org for more information on Volatile Substance Abuse.


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An autopsy Thursday revealed the man who was found in the waters off Shelter Cove last week died from drowning.
"At this point it seems he did drown, but how he ended up there is a mystery," Humboldt County Deputy Coroner Trevor Enright said.
The coroner's office is still working to identify the man, Enright said. The body does not match any missing person reports.
The man is described as an adult white male, approximately 35 to 55 years old, 5 foot 4 inches tall, weighing 125 pounds, Enright said. He also is petite, appears to have brown hair, a brown and gray scruffy beard, and no tattoos.
His body was recovered near the Whistle Buoy after a fishing vessel alerted authorities.


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A Memoir
The Pregnancy Project
A Memoir
Growing up, Gaby Rodriguez was often told she would end up a teen mom. After all, her mother and her older sisters had gotten pregnant as teenagers; from an outsider's perspective, it was practically a family tradition. Gaby had ambitions that didn't include teen motherhood. But she wondered: how would she be treated if she "lived down" to others' expectations? Would everyone ignore the years she put into being a good student and see her as just another pregnant teen statistic with no future? These questions sparked Gaby's high school senior project: faking her own pregnancy to see how her family, friends, and community would react. What she learned changed her life forever—and made international headlines in the process.
In The Pregnancy Project, Gaby details how she was able to fake her own pregnancy—hiding the truth from even her siblings and boyfriend's parents—and reveals all that she learned from the experience. But more than that, Gaby's story is about fighting stereotypes, and how one girl found the strength to come out from the shadow of low expectations to forge a bright future for herself.
- Simon & Schuster Books for Young Readers |
- 240 pages |
- April 2013 |
- Grades 9 and up |
- Lexile ® 970L
Reading Group Guide
Prepared by Pam B. Cole, Professor of English Education & Literacy, Kennesaw State University, Kennesaw, GA
Prereading Questions/Activities:
How are stereotypes created? How are they dangerous?
Is it possible to pay for our mistakes?
Why are teens often judged on the behaviors/experiences of older siblings? Is doing so fair?
Does teen pregnancy "ruin" a young person's life? Explain.
Discussion Questions:
Describe Gaby's relationship with her mother. How is her relationship different from what her siblings have with their mother? What accounts for this difference?
How would you characterize Gaby's relationship with her siblings? With her father?
Is Gaby a responsible teen? Explain.
How does Gaby get the idea for her project? Why does she choose something so difficult?
Why does Gaby want to complete the pregnancy project to fulfill her senior requirement? What does she hope to achieve?
How does Gaby gather research for her project and garner support for it in her school?
In order for her project to be successful, Gaby and her boyfriend must lie to family and friends. What impact does this decision have on their relationships with their families? With their friends?
Gaby comments that she felt like a zoo animal at school when everyone believed she was see more


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4800 Northwest 25th Way
Boca Raton, Florida, 33434
Commute to Downtown Boca Raton
Most errands require a car.
About your score
4800 Northwest 25th Way has a Walk Score of 32 out of 100. This location is a Car-Dependent neighborhood so most errands require a car.
This location is in Boca Raton. Nearby parks include Boca Tierra Park, Patch Reef Park and University Woodlands Park.
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Popular apartment searches include furnished, pool and fitness.
Search for homes in Boca Raton or find a Boca Raton real estate agent who knows walkable neighborhoods. Links will open on our partner site Redfin.com.
This location is in the city of Boca Raton, FL. Boca Raton has an average Walk Score of 40 and has 84,392 residents.


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text: From sunset Saturday to sunrise Sunday, the sixth annual festival of contemporary art takes over Toronto. But with 130 destinations to choose from, making the most of the all-night extravaganza can be a nightmare. Instead of wandering aimlessly around the city's darkened streets, let the Globe's arts critics help you navigate the best of Nuit


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I have had botox on my forehead and in between eyes and on each occasion the botox has worn off in less than 2 months,The botox company rep cam out twice and injected high doses herself to resolve the issue free of charge however the results are the same.She recommended I just get botox once a year for special occasions but otherwise its not for me. I dont understand why? I am 37 with relatively great olive skin, just wanted to start working on my forehead.
Why Doesnt Botox Last More Than 2 Months on Me? I Have Had It on Four Occasions with a Rep Injecting Very High Doses Same Result
Doctor Answers 14
Botox without results?
Botox results for your forehead and frown lines
It is possible you have become resistant to Botox and could try another neurotoxin. You might also consider another physician injector whose technique may be different and work better for you.
How many units of botox is considered high?
Interestingly in the United States we don't have reps inject anything! Your shorter than desired longevity of the Botox duration may be your norm. It can last up to four months but in some patients only three and a few I've seen only six weeks. Your metabolism of the product is different than the next person. possibly your doctor and the rep used high units but in reality they weren't high. Some women need more than 25 units for just the glabella (in between the eyebrows). Some men whose muscles are generally, but not always, more bulky and strong int he glabella than women, may even need 35 - 50 units or more. You may just need more but without knowing exactly how many units of Botox you received and wtihout knowing exactly the insertions and depth of injection, it is impossible for me to understand what your situation truly is.
Your doctor might consider a trial of Dysport or Xeomin if available in Australia. These are similar to Botox but slightly different chemically. Possibly, for reasons we don't understand, unless you're developing antibodies to the Botox, you might get greater duration of effectiveness.
Learn more: http://www.thenyac.com/botox/index.html
You might also like...
How long does Botox last and what factors affect its duration?
Botox is averaged by the FDA to last "up to" three months. Everyone's body is different and the strength of your muscles will determine how long Botox will last. The stronger your muscle, the more you will need. In my practice, we always schedule follow-up appointments two weeks after the initial procedure to make sure the product has reached it maximum effect. Then when the patient needs more, we will tailor their injected amount based on how long the product lasted. Unfortunately for most people, it is very hard to determine how much Botox you will need until you have established a good maintenance regimen and this may take up to three visits before getting it right. It is important to understand the factors which influence the length of time the product will last. Again, these factors include: dosage amount and strength of muscles. For some patients, we may recommend maybe trying Dysport as it can last a bit longer in some patients.
Why doesn't Botox last for me?
Hi Romi. The first question we would have is how many units were injected and which areas? The amount of product will affect the results.
The second issue is technique. We have had other patients tell us that they were resistant to Botox and when we dug a little further (asking them about where they were injected for certain areas of the face) we found that the technique was not appropriate for their concerns.
Finally, there are some patients who for one reason or another either do not respond well to Botox. they may have built up antibodies for it and just metabolize the product more quickly than others. If you fall into this category, you may want to try another injection product such as Dysport or Xeomin. Good luck.
Learn more: http://www.celibre.com/dysport-injections-overview.aspx
Botox not lasting as long as expected.
Botox Lasts 2 Months
We can all speculate, but none of us have the answer to your question. Recent studies suggest that the duration of Botox is not related to the dose administered. You can try the other neurotoxins or simply have the Botox injections more frequently.
Botox not lasting long
Luckily for you there are other neurotoxins out there if Botox does not seem to be lasting as long. Ask your injecting physician about Dysport and Xeomin.
Some people become resistant to Botox
Some people will develop antibodies and become resistant to Botox. I personally became resistant to Botox about 5 years ago. I switched to Dysport which works great for me. The New Xeomin is protein free and would be another good choice for you to try.
Learn more: http://www.gatewaylasercenter.com/Botox&Dysport.html
Why Doesnt Botox Last More Than 2 Months on Me? I Have Had It on Four Occasions with a Rep Injecting Very High Doses Same Result
The effects of Botox like the other neurotoxins Dysport and Xemomin, are dose dependant and do vary between individual patients. You didn't mention the number of units of Botox injected into the forehead and glabellar areas. High doses would be 50-75 units of Botox, IMHO. Another solution may be to have the injections done more frequently until the muscles become weaker and more prone to the effects of a lower dose of Botox.
Learn more: http://www.thepalmercodeinstitute.com
These answers are for educational purposes and should not be relied upon as a substitute for medical advice you may receive from your physician. If you have a medical emergency, please call 911. These answers do not constitute or initiate a patient/doctor relationship.


text: how about using a wrapper script, to which you would supply the value as parameter so you would just use runCommand "thescript <envval> <rest of parameters>" ? Herein lies the problem: I have a program that accepts complete commands > from a file and executes them. It works perfectly. And now I'd just like to > set an environment variable while each command runs... But alas no, the only > way to do that is with runProcess, which expects me to parse the command > line first. (Before anybody remarks that "words" will do this, consider the > "echo" command, which treats whitespace meaningfully.) on windows, echo is just a shell command, not executable, so it gets special treatment. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell-cafe/attachments/20080930/ac8eaeaf/attachment.htm


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LeRoy R. Hale, 69, Wyoming, formerly of Maplewood, died Friday, Feb. 10, 2012. He was a veteran of the United States Army.
A Mass of Christian Burial was Tuesday, Feb. 14 at the Church of the Assumption, 51 W. 7th St., St. Paul.
Interment was at Elmhurst Cemetery, St. Paul.
He is survived by his wife, Rita; father, Murray Hale, Sr.; children, Colleen McKenzie, Thomas (Kim), Daniel (Betta); grandchildren, Lauren, Christian, Nick, Emma, Alessandra, Luca and Cameron; brother, Murray (Judy) Hale, Jr.; nieces, nephews, and many friends.
He was preceded in death by his mother, Irene Hale.
Memorials are preferred to the ALS Association and may be sent in care of Roberts Family Funeral Home, 555 SW Centennial Drive, Forest Lake, MN 55025.


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Scribble: A pen that replicates any color in the real worldJune 12, 2014
"Scribble is a company that wants to bring the convenience of digital colors to the physical world with a new pen that can sample, and reproduce, any color you might encounter in your daily life. The pen can mix various inks to produce as many as 16 million different colors, 100,000 of which you can store on the 1GB of built-in memory. You can even import these colors to your computer or smartphone so you have easy access to them should you decide to use them for your next project.
The Scribble Pen recognizes colors using a 16-bit RGB color sensor, which it then recreates with a mixture of cyan, magenta, yellow, white or black ink. It's powered on a rechargeable lithium-ion battery, and should the ink run out, you can buy refillable cartridges. The company also plans to release a Scribble Stylus, which is the same except for the fact it features a rubber tip. Even though the idea has been solidified, the pen hasn't gone into production just yet. Scribble will be launching a Kickstarter campaign in the near future to put together the funds for its first batch. When that happens, they plan to sell the Ink Pen for $149.95, while the Stylus will be available for $79.95."


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Portland, ME, US
The first of the stated goals of this proposal to establish a new type fishing town, one which maintains the traditional structure and atmosphere of the existing town, but is supported by a growing, forward-looking industry. In order to survive, the production capacity of the proposed aquacultural heart of the town must be immediately competitive with commercial fishing, not only because the product of the town must be economically viable, but also because aquaculture must as soon as possible establish itself as the future of the fishing industry. This emphasis on aquaculture as the future of cod production will also be essential to the identity of the town in which the facility is built, eventually its legacy will be as the forerunner of the future of commercial groundfish harvesting. This economic and other necessities perhaps more than any other issues will dictate the scale of the intervention. Not just in terms of revenue generated, although that must be the starting point of the calculation, but in a literal sense, of how many square feet and cubic liters the facility must be. Ultimately the goal of revenue generation will dictate as much of the design of the intervention as site conditions, ecological and biological necessity, and architectural desire.
Status: School Project
Location: Cutler, ME, US
My Role: Sole Designer
Additional Credits: Honors Presentation


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'Twilight' Fanfic: Is 'Beautiful Bastard' The New 'Fifty Shades of Grey'?We look at the wonder that is 'Twilight' fan fiction and tease the new novel you might be reading in 2013.
Breaking Dawn Part 2 Is The Best YetThe Twilight Saga: Breaking Dawn - Part 2 hits theaters at midnight tonight! Find out just how good the Twilight finale is.
Twilight Saga: Breaking Dawn - Part 2 LA PremiereThe vamps weren't the only ones sparkling on the red carpet last night. Hollywood turned out for the premiere of the Twilight Saga's finale, Breaking Dawn - Part 2.
Breaking Dawn Part 2 Premiere Fan CampTwi-Hards began camping in tents ahead of the "Twilight Saga: Breaking Dawn - Part 2" premiere in Los Angeles. The fan community enshrined their tents with tributes to the vampire saga and were visited by stars from the movies.
See The Newest Trailer For "The Twilight Saga: Breaking Dawn - Part 2"Twi-Hards rejoice!! The latest trailer for the Twilight Saga's finale has been released! See it here!
Twi-Moms Give Breaking Dawn, Part 1 Two Thumbs Up


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Pat Morita, the Japanese-American actor who is best known to audiences as Arnold from
Happy Days and as Mr. Miyagi from the Karate Kid film series, died Thursday, November 24, in his home in Las Vegas. He was 73.
Pat Morita was born Noriyuki Morita on June 28, 1932, in Northern California to migrant farm workers. As an infant he developed spinal tuberculosis and spent nine years in hospitals, sometimes in a full-body cast. Doctors told the family that he would not recover, but at age 11 he learned to walk again after undergoing surgery. While Noriyuki was still recovering from the operation, he and his family were sent to a Japanese internment camp in Arizona for the remainder of World War II. While in the camp he adopted his stage name, Pat, from a priest he met.
After the war ended, the Morita family opened a chop suey restaurant ...Read more
As a child with dyslexia, Henry Winkler was ridiculed, so as "the Fonz" in the 1970s television sitcom Happy Days he made himself into everything he wanted to be--cool, funny and popular.
Winkler, 61, won international fame for playing the ultracool auto mechanic Arthur "Fonzie" Fonzarelli in the ABC sitcom that ran from 1974 to 1984 with his motorcycle, leather jacket, and thumbs-up gesture becoming television icons.
But a new generation of children are relating to Winkler in a different way--not as his alter ego The Fonz but as Winkler, a child teased at school for being dumb.
After a lifetime of struggling with dyslexia, Winkler put pen to paper in 2003 with co-author Lin Oliver and re-created himself as Hank Zipzer, a smart fourth grader with learning difficulties but a great sense of humor and adventure.
"Hank Zipzer is my life. It is the building I was born in ...Read more
TV mogul Garry Marshall, hoping
audiences will have '70s nostalgia
for his television series about '50s nostalgia, is prepping a musical based on
Happy Days, his long-running sitcom that starred
Ron Howard and
Henry Winkler. The original series ran for 10 years.
Happy Days followed the exploits of Richie Cunningham, played by Howard, as he went through high school in 1950s suburbia. He was joined in his comedic adventures by his kid sister, Joanie; his best friends, Ralph Malph and Potsie; and the '50s hipster who boarded with the Cunningham family, Arthur Fonzarelli, aka The Fonz. The gang would often do the sock-hop down at Al's Place, the local soda joint.
Marshall also worked on the sitcoms The Odd Couple, The Dick Van Dyke Show, Laverne & Shirley, Mork & Mindy, and the Happy Days spinoff Joanie Loves Chachi. He also directed ...Read more
One of the most successful series of the 1970s is Happy Days, which is set in the late 1950s, early 1960s in Milwaukee, the heart of middle-class America. Happy Days tells the story of the Cunninghams, one of America's most beloved TV families played by Tom Bosley (Howard), Erin Moran (Joanie), Marion Ross (Marion), and Ron Howard (Richie). Richie and Joanie had an older brother, Chuck (Gavan O'Herlihy and Randolph Roberts), but he was phased out by the third season. Richie, who hangs out at Arnold's Drive-In with his buddies Potsie Weber (Anson Williams) and Ralph Malph (Donny Most), forms a close bond with neighborhood greaser, the Fonz (Henry Winkler). Living in an apartment above the Cunningham garage, the Fonz gives Richie advice on just about everything that he wants to know. Wearing his leather jacket atop his motorcycle while saying phrases like "aaaayyyy" and "sit on it," the Fonz is the king of cool and quickly became a cultural icon. As time passed, additional characters were introduced. Al Delvecchio (Al Molinaro) replaced Arnold (Pat Morita) as owner of Arnold's Drive-In in season 4. He would remain until the end of season 9. Season 5 saw Fonzie's cousin, Chachi Arcola (Scott Baio), and Richie's love interest, Lori Beth Allen (Lynda Goodfriend), come onto the scene. When Ron Howard and Donny Most left the show after season 7, the producers felt that they needed to add some characters to fill the void. Enter Cathy Silvers (as Jenny Piccalo - the never-before-seen-but-often-talked-about best friend of Joanie) and Ted McGinley (as Roger Phillips - Marion's nephew). The focus of the series shifted to the relationship between Joanie and Chachi. Season 10 saw Fonzie get a season-long love interest in the person of Ashley Pfister (Linda Purl). Other recurring characters added during the last four seasons were Roger's brother, Leopold "Flip" Phillips (Billy Warlock), Howard's niece, K. C. Cunningham (Crystal Bernard), Ashley's daughter, Heather Pfister (Heather O'Rourke), and Joanie and Chachi's classmates, Eugene Belvin (Denis Mandel), Melvin Belvin (Scott Bernstein), Bobby Milner (Harris Kal), and Tommy (Kevin Sullivan). In addition, Pat Morita returned during season 10 (and the first episode of season 11) to reprise his role as Arnold. By the end of the series, Richie had married Lori Beth and had two children, Al had married Chachi's mother, Louisa, Potsie was, presumably, still in college, and Ralph was training to be an optometrist. In the series' finale, "Passages," Joanie and Chachi were married, and Fonzie (owner of Fonzie's Auto Repairing and Arnold's as well as Dean of Boys at Patton High) adopted an orphan boy named Danny. Howard thanked the audience for being a part of their family, and a sentimental clip montage was shown to Elvis Presley's "Memories." Main Title Theme Songs "Rock Around The Clock" - written by Jimmy DeKnight (James E. Myers) and Max C. Freedman; performed by Bill Haley and The Comets (Seasons 1-2) "Happy Days" - written by Norman Gimbel and Charles Fox; performed by Pratt & McClain (Seasons 3-10) "Happy Days" - written by Norman Gimbel and Charles Fox; performed by Bobby Arvon (Season 11) ABC Broadcast History January 15, 1974 - September 20, 1983 ---- Tuesdays ---- 8:00 - 8:30 P.M. September 27, 1983 - January 31, 1984 ---- Tuesdays ---- 8:30 - 9:00 P.M. April 24, 1984 - May 29, 1984 ----------------- Tuesdays ---- 8:30 - 9:00 P.M. June 7, 1984 - September 24, 1984 ---------- Tuesdays ---- 8:00 - 9:00 P.M. Nielsen Ratings - Top 30 Season 1 (1974) Not In Top 30 Season 2 (1974-1975) Not In Top 30 Season 3 (1975-1976) #11 (23.9) Season 4 (1976-1977) #1 (31.5) Season 5 (1977-1978) #2 (31.4) Season 6 (1978-1979) #3 (tie) (28.6) Season 7 (1979-1980) #17 (21.7) Season 8 (1980-1981) #15 (tie) (20.8) Season 9 (1981-1982) #18 (20.6) Season 10 (1982-1983) #28 (tie) (17.4) Season 11 (1983-1984) Not In Top 30 Emmy Awards Nominations Outstanding Lead Actor in a Comedy Series 1976 - Henry Winkler 1977 - Henry Winkler 1978 - Henry Winkler Outstanding Continuing Performance by a Supporting Actor in a Comedy Series 1978 - Tom Bosley Outstanding Directing in a Comedy Series 1978 - Jerry Paris - "Richie Almost Dies" 1981 - Jerry Paris - "Hello Mrs. Arcola" Outstanding Film Editing in a Comedy Series 1978 - Ed Cotter - "Richie Almost Dies" (winner) Outstanding Supporting Actress in a Comedy or Comedy-Variety or Music Series 1979 - Marion Ross Outstanding Supporting Actress in a Comedy Series 1984 - Marion Ross (source: Academy of Television Arts & Sciences) Golden Globe Awards Nominations Outstanding Production - Musical Or Comedy Series 1976 1977 Actor In A Leading Role - Musical Or Comedy Series 1976 - Henry Winkler (winner) 1977 - Henry Winkler (winner) 1977 - Ron Howard Actor In A Supporting Role - Series, Mini-Series, Or Television Movie 1982 - Anson Williams Youth in Film Awards Nominations Best Young Comedian 1979-1980 - Scott Baio Best Young Comedian - Motion Picture or Television 1980-1981 - Scott Baio (winner) Best Television Series - Family Enjoyment 1980-1981 Best Young Actor In A Television Series 1980-1981 - Scott Baio Best Young Actress In A Comedy Series 1981-1982 - Heather O'Rourke (source: The Young Artist Foundation) Miscellaneous Awards and Honors The Producers Guild of America's Hall of Fame for Theatrical Motion Pictures 2002 Television Inductee Other shows connected with Happy Days Love, American Style (pilot series) Laverne & Shirley (spin off) Blansky's Beauties (spin off) Mork & Mindy (spin off) Out of the Blue (crossover) The Fonz and the Happy Days Gang (cartoon) The Mork & Mindy/Laverne & Shirley/Fonz Hour (cartoon) Joanie Loves Chachi (spin off) First Telecast: January 15, 1974 Last Telecast: September 24, 1984 Episodes: 255 color episodes plus two reunion specialsmoreless


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Triple M Stables is a wonderful facility that provides great care for horses. We provide many equine services such as boarding, riding lessons, training, sales, overnight stabling, and arena rental. Some of the amenities of our facility are a 60 X 150' indoor arena, out door riding area, local trails, heated wash rack, new stalls, tack room, locker room, kitchen, office with a balcony looking over the indoor arena. We have many options of boarding available indoor 10 X 10 stalls, outside runs with shelter, and multiple horse pastures.... (read more)http://www.equinenow.com/farm-id-55874
All Around, Barrel, Barrel Racing, Beginner, Breaking, Lesson, Rodeo, Roping, Show, Working Cattle, Lessons, Gymkhanas, Breeding, Boarding, Indoor Arena
If so, you can update this page by editing your company information.


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Pepe Plaka Plaka
Si el Barça tiene a Shakira y el Waka Waka el Madrid tiene al central Pepe y su Plaka Plaka.
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Iowa State pulls away to beat NC Central, but loses Georges Niang
SAN ANTONIO — DeAndre Kane was facedown on his knees and holding his head.
The star of third-seeded Iowa State, he stayed on the floor for nearly a minute Friday night. He had received a glancing blow to his face on a driving basket by North Carolina Central's Jeremy Ingram late in the first half.
The volatile Kane slowly rose to his feet and when the game resumed, he ran down court still holding the right side of his face. For a half, he and his teammates absorbed feisty 14th-seeded North Carolina Central's best shot.
But after halftime, the Cyclones countered with a knockout blow en route to a rugged 93-75 triumph in the second round of the East Region.
They only led by six at halftime, but broke the game open with an 11-0 run that pushed their lead to 20 points with 9:47 left. It was a balanced Iowa State effort with five scorers in double figures, topped by forward Georges Niang, whose 24 points included a 4-of-5 effort on threes.
The Cyclones (27-7) next play sixth-seeded North Carolina, a fortunate 79-77 winner vs. Providence, on Sunday. Unfortunately, the Cylcones won't have Niang for that game, as the sophomore suffered a foot fracture and is out for the remainder of the season.
Kane, on the other hand, grimaced a little after the game and flashed a few smiles and waved to his adoring fans, seemingly no worse for the wear.
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Ambati Rambabu Slams Chandrababu & Lokesh - Sakshi
Fri, Sep 18, 2015, 01:37 PM
YSR Congress senior leader Ambati Rambabu has come down heavily on Andhra Pradesh chief minister Chandrababu alleging that he is trying to convince people that interlinking of rivers have been done by him and it will fulfill the concerns of people. Ambati Rambabu has made it clear that late YSR has already launched the maximum part of the said scheme and alleged that Chandrababu has just added a part of it and claiming his credit. He has also faulted comments made by Nara Lokesh on YS Jagan.


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TAMPA, Fla., March 12, 2013 (GLOBE NEWSWIRE) -- Odyssey Marine Exploration, Inc. (Nasdaq:OMEX), a pioneer in the fields of deep-ocean shipwreck and offshore mineral exploration, reported results for the fourth quarter and year ended December 31, 2012. Fourth Quarter 2012 Financial and Operational Highlights
- Total revenue in the fourth quarter was $7.9 million as compared to $0.9 million in the same year-ago quarter.
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- Shareholder value was created through mineral exploration and resource estimate operations which resulted in the development of Oceanica Resources in the first quarter of 2013 providing $15 million in cash and 62.6% ownership in Oceanica to the company.


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Beatrice Marie Crowley, 75, Lawson, passed away Wednesday, March 25 at 11 p.m. in Nashville, Tenn. at St. Thomas Midtown Hospital.
Funeral services were held at 3 p.m. Sunday, Sept. 29 at Canaan Hill Church of the Nazarene, rural Lawson. In lieu of flowers, our mother would have instead wanted donations for her beloved church. Donations can therefore be made to Canaan Hill Church of the Nazarene. The family received friends one hour prior to service from 2 to 3 p.m. at the church. Burial services will be held at the Lawson Cemetery.
Arrangements through Polley Funeral Home Lawson.
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Amish Country Bike Tour
Dover, DE
Sat 09/07/2013
100 miles, Road Ride
2200 Participants
|Sat 09/07/2013
|Road Ride (100 miles)
|100 miles
27th Annual Amish Country Bike Tour Join 2,200 cyclists for the 27th annual Amish Country Bike Tour in Dover, Delaware. Great for all ages and abilities through the flatlands of Delaware's Amish countryside. Loops include 15, 25, 50, 62 and 100 miles. Bike Tour entry fee includes food stops including the famous locally-made pie stop at the Amish Schoolhouse. After-tour catered BBQ picnic lunch. Live folk music and local craft beer sampling at the after-tour party. This event is sponsored by Kent County Tourism. Proceeds from the bike tour are also shared with the Central Delaware YMCA and the Amish Schoolhouse Education Program. For more information or to register, visit www.amishcountrybiketour.com or call 800-233-5368.
- Name:Cindy Small
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By Melanie Nathan
Justice lies in the Life Long Indictment that Conrad Murray Killed Michael Jackson
Michael Jackson's family wept as Dr. Conrad Murray was led away in handcuffs to serve a maximum four year sentence for putting the superstar to sleep, forever! Conrad Murray has been found guilty of involuntary manslaughter. Gross negligence is tantamount to killing – especially at the hands of a doctor!
The Judge Michael Pastor expressed anger, clearly outraged by what he termed Murray's mistreatment of Jackson in a "cycle of horrible medicine" and "medicine madness."
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The judge's tone was definitive and its clear he was determined to make an example of the doctor: "Jackson died of a totality of circumstances directly attributable to Dr. Murray. "
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The bottom line when determining justice is the fact that Conrad Murray will always be known as the man who killed Megastar, beloved icon Michael Jackson.


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Burning Man
Unless you've been hiding under a rock somewhere the past 26 years, I'm sure you've heard of Burning Man. You know, the once-a-year festivities out in Nevada's Black Rock Desert where over 40,000 people (Burners) come to create Black Rock City, practically overnight. It's a week-long celebration of community, art and self expression. This year, the city will house over 60,000 people!
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This is the website/blog of Philosopher Stephen Law. Stephen is Reader in philosophy at Heythrop College, University of London, and editor of the Royal Institute of Philosophy journal THINK. He has published several books (see sidebar). For school talks and media email: think-AT-royalinstitutephilosophy.org
Tuesday, February 14, 2012
Feedback required please...
Or if you can give examples of other ways in which the Evil God challenge has had impact (educational, public, etc.) that I might not know about...
V best
19 comments:
- The Atheist Missionary said...
This was published in the October 23, 2010 edition of the Owen Sound Sun Times. I assure you that philosophers rarely grace the pages of that paper.
- February 14, 2012 at 1:20 PM
- Phil Carter said...
I was a student when it was put forward to me, by you, at one of Heythrops' seminars for a-level students. I think I was 17. It had an alarming impact, I was an evangelical christian and regularly using variations of the teleo/cosmological arguments. It made me question my own use of arguments, the churches blind use of them and eventually caused me to follow up with more research; amongst which I discovered my love for philosophy as a subject. A few years on, I am now an atheist Philosophy graduate. So it has had a large impact on me personally, educationally and vocationally. Much appreciation for that, hope this helps!
- February 14, 2012 at 3:35 PM
- Stephen Law said...
Thanks very much you two.
Phil - that is extraordinary. It's kind of enervating, and yet also pretty disturbing, to realize stuff I produce has had a dramatic effect on at least some young people. It seems I really am "corrupting the youth", which is some responsibility.
- February 14, 2012 at 7:04 PM
- Phil Carter said...
What you said was put into a public sphere, it was my choice to engage with it, at the end of the day my personal beliefs failed to stand up to reason and logic. Reason and logic are now my personal beliefs. If it is more comforting, think of it more as a catalyst than a wrecking ball, and I can assure you that there were other people and many many more writings involved on 'both sides'! But still, thank you for that day and for the effect it collectively had on me.
- February 14, 2012 at 7:27 PM
- Stephen Law said...
You're very welcome Phil. I am much more enervated than disturbed!
- February 14, 2012 at 7:29 PM
- Justin Vacula said...
Stephen, I've been a huge fan since you've debated Craig and thought the evil god challenge was quite a hammerblow to theism!
I've blogged about it on American Atheists' "No God Blog"
and used a variation in a debate I had with a Methodist minister in a live podcast episode
Thanks much!
- February 15, 2012 at 1:10 AM
- Justin Vacula said...
Also, touching on your debate and related comments from Craig:
- February 15, 2012 at 1:14 AM
It's referred to in a book manuscript that I've written and am hoping to have published. I think it highlights Hume's problem very well (hence why it's in there!)
- February 15, 2012 at 5:55 AM
- Stephen Law said...
Thanks Justin and Tim - very helpful!
- February 15, 2012 at 9:16 AM
- NoseyMatronType said...
I am slowly integrating quite a bit of your material into my teaching of Year 13's doing the OCR Philosophy of Religion and Religious Ethics courses at 'A' Level. There are six students in all. So far we have discussed the section on the Evil God Hypothesis from your latest book (which I have reviewed favourably on Amazon). I also intend to use the 'Dogs are spies from the planet Venus' material to teach falsification. Additionally, 'The Great Philosophers' has proved to be an invaluable additional resource. What I like about your writing is its clarity, accuracy and humour. These attributes are in short supply in most of the recommended OCR textbooks.
- February 16, 2012 at 6:29 AM
- Stephen Law said...
Thanks Nosey Matron - that's good to know. Also thanks for amazon review!
- February 16, 2012 at 9:03 AM
Hi Stephen,
I use your Evil God Challenge in my A-level Religious Studies (Philosophy and Ethics) class of 7 students. We listen to your interview on Philosophy Bites and then consider how to run the Augustinian and Irenaean theodicies and Free Will Defence in reverse.
- February 18, 2012 at 3:14 PM
- Tim Stephenson said...
See 29 minutes in. I acknowledge your work at 44 minutes in: http://www.worfolklectures.org/lectures/perspective-humanism
- February 21, 2012 at 6:44 PM
- John W. Loftus said...
Have you seen Steven M. Cahn, "Cacodaemony," in Contemporary Philosophy of Religion, ed. Steven M. Cahn and David Shatz (New York: Oxford University Press, 1982), pp. 20–24.
I think that is the earliest example I found of this type of argument.
- February 24, 2012 at 4:45 PM
I've used your evil God hypothesis often with A level students-always well received - smiles all round usually! Next week plan to try it on my class of 20 adults - am teaching a WEA 'Cultural Studies' (ie interest only, non-exam) Philosophy of Religion -Does God Exist? course!Will report back on response!
Paula Saunders St Albans
- March 5, 2012 at 2:40 PM
- Stephen Law said...
Thanks Paula - v helpful.
John - I refer to that paper in the EGC paper. But actually there are some even earlier versions, which I also reference. Cant reference them from here though...
- March 6, 2012 at 2:56 PM
Hi Stephen. First met your Evil God hypothesis on a 1-day course for teachers of P of R led by you and used it ever since. My WEA class very taken with it (ages range from mid-50s-early 80s and v bright!)- there was a silence when I finished and some appreciative murmurings! It really does make them think and evaluate the standard theodicies. I gave them the abbreviated version (as taken down by me that day and put on to a Ppt!) but have directed them to your Investigating Atheism website and your very good alien philosophers version! They especially liked your 'Hello magazine is all part of Evil God's plan'! Thank you!Paula
- March 13, 2012 at 3:12 PM
- Stephen Law said...
Thanks very much Paula. V Helpful.
- March 13, 2012 at 3:51 PM
hi Stephen. I listened to you yesterday at the oxford literary festival and enjoyed the talk. the evil god hypothesis seems to me a revamping of the argument from design. if we take the version of looking around the garden (where god is the gardener) to see if there is a gardener then the weeds might make us think there is no gardener, but the flowers that there is one. the weakness of the argument from design is it all depends on how you view the garden. Atheist seem so troubled by suffering but its fairly obvious that biologically pain is absolutey necessary if we are to look after ourselves. And with pain comes suffering. However, much suffering is caused by humans and you can't lay that at god's door. but what about cancer, plague etc.? well its hard to see all microbes, deseases etc. as good at all but i wonder if we look on things in a too human perspective and that some of these things are for the benefit of the eco systems and other living things. Finally, science cannot answer why matter exists at all even if it can give some answers as to how the universe works or has evolved. I've never felt content to live in a universe with no apparent cause(chance seems to me a vacuous concept when applied to the universe)I believe God exists and pervades the whole of the world we know but then that is a revelation for some reason not given to all.
- March 30, 2012 at 4:17 AM


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When I was given the opportunity to have a go at multiplayer I jumped at the chance. I really liked what I have played of the single player campaign so far, and you can check out my three hour preview here.
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What's Feeding Grocery Store Boom in Bixby and South Tulsa?
Food is a necessity and you'll have no problem finding it in Bixby. It's not the only area where the number of grocery stores have grown. You can count at least 10 stores in 10 square miles of Bixby and South Tulsa
A new grocery store is sprouting up near Target's turf, and where an Aldi's is already operating in Bixby. There's others just like them nearby too. Plus a Reasor's is under construction in the same area. "We think both of these stores are going to do really well in this market or they wouldn't be here," said Bixby Mayor Ray Bowen. He says 50,000 cars travel through the area everyday, and he says 376,000 people live in a 10 square mile radius of 121st and Memorial. All of them have to eat, some shoppers say their top pick comes down to price. "Pretty important. We have eight people in my family, six kids, so we have to find good deals and stuff.," said Kaitlyn Pickard.
Nearby south Tulsans enjoy the same convenience. Some grocery stores are right across the street from one another. "Oh it's great for me because I have choices," said Shopper Marcia Caldwell. However she said one thing bugs her. "The thing that I do have concern about is that the people in North Tulsa do not have the same sorts of options that we have here, and I also wonder how the grocery stores can stay open when there are so many," she told Tulsa's Channel 8.
Reasor's corporate office says it comes down to research. They've done their homework and so have other stores. If their parking lots and checkout lines are any indication, their presence is paying off.
The new Reasor's in Bixby will open on October 31st. The new Sprouts Farmer's Market just down the street will open in May of 2013.


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The Los Angeles school district has to change its new "healthful" lunch menu because it was so nasty the students refused to eat it. According to the LA Times, it's so bad it literally made one student vomit, and others have complained of stomach pains and anemia. No wonder, look at what they had on the menu:
Instead, district chefs concocted such healthful alternatives as vegetarian curries and tamales, quinoa salads and pad Thai noodles. …
Acknowledging the complaints, L.A. Unified's food services director, Dennis Barrett, announced this month that the menu would be revised. Hamburgers will be offered daily. Some of the more exotic dishes are out, including the beef jambalaya, vegetable curry, pad Thai, lentil and brown rice cutlets, and quinoa and black-eyed pea salads. And the Caribbean meatball sauce will be changed to the more familiar teriyaki flavor.
The article notes that the new school menu brought about an underground market of junk food, and that kids started eating worse than ever. That's what happens when the nannies try to decide what's best for everyone else – they make matters worse. Not only was the food horrible and nasty, it also cost the district millions more than the old menu. One teacher even had her students write letters about the awful food to local district officials and Michelle Obama. I wonder if the First Lady replied that they simply hadn't had their palates properly adjusted.


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Kim Kardashian and Kanye West are set to marry later this month in a lavish ceremony in France, but a new report surfaced this weekend claiming the publicity power pair has already quietly wed.
So, are they married? Apparently, it depends who you ask.
According to Life & Style, Kim and her rapper beau are "married on paper."
PHOTOS: Kim Kardashian's Maternity Fashion
"They got their license in California over the past few days," a source reportedly close to the couple told the mag in a story published on Sunday. "Kim and North are on their way to NYC now."
But not so fast!
PHOTOS: The Many Men Of Kim Kardashian
On the heels of that report, a source close to the Kardashian family denied reports that the couple had legally tied the knot, telling People that the 33-year-old reality star remains a (three-time) bride-to-be.
The couple, parents to 11-month-old daughter North West, is expected to tie the knot on May 24 at Chateau Louis XIV.
Reps for Kim and Kanye were not immediately available for comment on the marriage rumors when contacted by Access Hollywood.
-- Erin O'Sullivan


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Three bad girls enter their senior year in high school...
Sold Slave
- by ✵~Mini~✵
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- Published: 23 Sep 2016
- Updated: 2 Dec 2016
- Status: In Progress
This story is about a girl in the wrong place at the wrong time and she gets kiddnaped and sold to a gang and becomes a sex slave. See if she escapes or dose she.
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Blood enemies, bound lovers
He'd loved a vampire once, only to have her murdered by vengeful Freebloods. Now, to save his son, Garret Fox must look to another Freeblood for help. Garret knows the empathic vampire Artemis can't deny his request once she reluctantly drinks his human blood. But although their connection runs deep, their attraction hot, Garret can never forget what Artemis truly is.
Sharing Garret's thoughts and feelings has wreaked havoc on Artemis' emotions. But when she discovers a malevolent force bent on destroying them, she finds herself drawn even closer to the human. Dare she ever hope to find a home with a man who hates her very kind if they can first survive the evil allied against them?
©2016 Susan Krinard (P)2016 Harlequin Enterprises, Limited.
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Is Sean Penn doing some good work for Haiti? Yes. At some point, did he opt to advance his own Hollywood image in place of casting the widest relief net possible? Yes. Will he violently threaten those who question his motives in the name of "peace?" That's a definite possibility. I liked him better when he was rattling his skull with a checkered slip-on.
For those of you who don't know, Sean Penn has been "making the rounds" to keep the public awarene about Haiti. By "making the rounds" I mean scoring Hollywood elbow-bumping points by appearing on Tinseltown's golden fanboy show… Larry King Live.
"One of the most important aspects of that will be that I've never asked to be on television before in my life, with the exception of unintelligible. I asked to be on your show today and you said yes. That's what's important, to keep the eye on Haiti. …The eyes of CNN and FoxNews and everybody else, the New York Times stays on this disaster…"
Reall,y Sean? The most important aspect of all of this is that you've asked to be on Larry King Live? I would have guessed food, water and infrastructure would top the list but hey, I'm a simp! No matter, as it seems to me that you want to raise public awareness in regards to the Haiti tragedy as much as possible. On the surface, that sounds noble enough. However, if that were the case, it seems that you would have "asked for the first time in your life" to be on one of the following…
1. The O'Reilly Factor (Often reaches nearly 9 times Larry King's viewership with 3,348,000 viewers to LK's 383,000)
2. Glenn Beck/Sean Hannity (over 6X Larry's audience)
3. Fox Report W/Brett Baier ( over 5X)
4. Fox Report W/Shep Smith ( Nearly 5X)
5. On the Record with Greta ( 4.5X)
6. Fox&Friends ( over 2.5X)
As a matter of fact, if reaching the widest audience possible (ie: CHARITABLE DONORS) was your goal, "Tales from the Crypt with Larry King" wouldn't have even cracked the top 10 list of programs on which you would choose to make your plea.
Of course, there's also the fact that the center-right audience of FoxNews would statistically be more charitable, as well (according to extensive studies by both John Stossel and Arthur Brooks). But that's neither here nor there… Not when your goal is to score PR points. Sure Sean, we know that you care. You just don't seem to care enough to take some flack from your Hollywood buddies for appearing on those dreaded (and highest rated) cable news programs. Who can blame you? I hear George Clooney's got a mean right-cross.
I know that you've appeared on Geraldo Rivera's show. That's cute. I'm also well aware of the fact that appearing on a show whose host you and your buddy Chavez have consistently slandered would require an actual pair of testicles. Considering that this is "beyond any devastation anyone has ever seen" however, one would expect you to sack up, put your personal political vendettas aside and do the right thing.
… Or you can always just ask Hugo to make the rounds on one of his shows. I hear he has an "in" with the networks over there.
… You punk.


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After all the talk the Nats have nothing anywhere to help the building industry. Quite the opposite with no action on the RMA or crazy building requirements imposed by the last Govt. A 12 month "do anything you like" period would get everything going again. Given that 95% of the current buildings in NZ wouldn't comply to todays planning or building regs what would it matter. why not let people do anything they like on their property - why even a have buidling consent? Smoking kills 5000 a year and it you don't need permission from the govt to do that? Gee how many people could get killed from a building anyway?
Get real Nats - fast asleep at the wheel like they always used to be. Bring back another Roger Douglas Labour govt! Its the only time anything happened in this dump!


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Addressing a meeting held in support UP UDF candidate Ali Ahmad at Naugarh on April 21, Bukhari said, without naming BJP, there is a party which practices anti-Muslim policy while the other parties play with Muslim votes. "The parties playing with Muslim votes are in fact responsible for the backwardness of the community," he added.
In his first ever address in East Uttar Pradesh, Shahi Imam observed, "Our fight is with the political parties which seek power on Muslim votes; for these parties always exploit Muslims to the hilt by raising soppy slogans."
On political parties' "defeat BJP" call, Bukhari said these parties raise this slogan just to involve the Muslims in fear psychosis at places where they are in considerable numbers but do not raise it at places where non-Muslims are in majority.
To make his point home, he referred to the last Assembly election in Gujarat where these parties, which had no say in the State, fielded their candidates so that Narendra Modi might win the polls.


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POINT LOOKOUT, MO. – The Oklahoma Wesleyan University men's basketball program has been picked as the favorite to win the 2013-14 MCAC Championship, this according to the Preseason Coaches' Poll released Thursday.
The Eagles, who finished third in the MCAC regular season standings a year ago, posted a 21-10 overall record in 2012-13 (11-5 MCAC), falling the MCAC South Tournament final to College of the Ozarks.
Bellevue University and York College—the 2012-13 MCAC Regular Season Co-Champions—tied for second in the 2013-14 preseason poll. The Bruins finished with a 24-11 overall record (12-4) last season, while York posted a 24-9 record (12-4 MCAC). Both teams advanced to the second round of the NAIA Division II National Tournament.
Rounding out the rankings are Waldorf College (4th), College of the Ozarks (5th), Central Christian College (6th), Haskell Indian Nations University (7th) and Central Baptist College (8th).
2013-14 MCAC Men's Basketball Preseason Coaches' Poll
1. Oklahoma Wesleyan University
t2. Bellevue University *
t2. York College *
4. Waldorf College
5. College of the Ozarks #
6. Central Christian College
7. Haskell Indian Nations University
8. Central Baptist College
*2012-13 MCAC Regular Season Co-Champions
#2012-13 MCAC Tournament Champions