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Clove candy recipes
Recipes / Clove candy recipes (1000+)
1988 3rd Place: Gloria Heeter's Best Gingerbread Cookies
886 views
cloves, 2 tsp Grnd ginger, 1 tsp Grnd nutmeg, Currants, raisins, silver, Balls and candy
Candied Sweet Potatoes, Cinnamon And Cloves
783 views
Candied Sweet Potatoes, Cinnamon And Cloves, ingredients: You may gasp over the amount of
Cinnamon Candy Muffin
460 views
Candy Muffin, ingredients: 1 3/, 1/4 tsp salt, 1/2 tsp cloves, 1/4 tsp white pepper, 1 tsp
Gingerbread House Recipe
746 views
Recipe, ingredients: ginger, 1/2 tsp grnd cloves, 1 tsp salt, 3/4 1 lb hard candies in
Hot Spiced Tea (Russian Tea)
1140 views
Grnd cloves, 1/2 tsp Cinnamon, 1/2 tsp Grnd ginger, 1/2 tsp Nutmeg, 1 c. Red warm candies
1988 3rd Place Gloria Heeter's Best Gingerbread Cookies
855 views
Grnd cinnamon, 2 tsp Grnd cloves, 2 tsp Grnd , 1 x Balls and candy,, 1 x For decoration
Ageless Fruitcake
520 views
currants, 1 c. mixed candied orange and lemon nutmeg, 1/2 tsp grnd cloves, 11/2 c. minced
Share Our Strength Holiday Table (...Squash, Bacon, Cranberry, & Gorgonzola Salad w/ Warm Cider Maple Vinaigrette and Candied Pecans)
206 views
candied Pecans (recipe follows) Warm Maple Cider Vinaigrette, as needed (recipe cloves
Gingerbread House Part 1: Recipe and Baking
319 views
the recipe from 3/4 tsp ground cloves 1 tsp nutmeg 1 egg assorted candies and sugar
FoodTalk | Wholegrain Cinnamon Oat Waffles with Clove Ice Cream… get spicy these monsoons!
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of the Baskin Robbins Clove Candy Crunch Ice-cream from clove ice cream. Share this Recipe
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cookies, cakes & candy
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cakes & candy, Invite all to submit their famous recipes of cookies, cakes and candy
Bay Area Moms Favorite Recipes
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Bay Area to join, but please don't add any recipes that you don't think are wonderful
Quick and Easy Professional Recipes
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Quick and Easy Professional Recipes, We've selected the easiest recipes to prepare from
Great Recipes for Lent
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for Lent, Fish and other meat-less recipes perfect for those Fridays during Lent., main
Dutch Oven Recipes
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Oven Recipes, A group dedicated to creating, reccomending and reviewing recipes using
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July 4th Recipes - All American Food!
Food!, Spice up this 4th of July with recipes sure to keep family and friends coming back
Bastille Day Recipes and Ideas!
food and festivities. These French inspired recipes are sure to be a hit anytime
Simple No-Bake Recipes for Summer
it's just too hot to cook. Includes kid-friendly recipes and ways to stay cool while the
College Football Tailgating Recipes
or a tailgate outside the stadium, these recipes are the perfect way to kick off the
Camping Food: One Burner Recipes
without delicious home-cooked meals? These camping recipes will be the perfect addition to
Trusted Results with Clove candy recipes
Cooks.com - Recipes - Clove Candy
Home > Recipes > clove candy. 101 Things to do with Canned Biscuits. by Toni Patrick ... Enter your email to signup for the Cooks.com Recipe Newsletter. ...
clove* candy Recipes at Epicurious.com
go. advanced recipe search. Gingerbread Candy Canes Epicurious, ... Delicious recipes for showers, engagement parties, and receptions, plus menu ...
Cooks.com - Recipe - Lillian's Clove Candy
Home > Recipes > Candies > Lillian's Clove Candy. LILLIAN'S CLOVE CANDY. 3 3/4 c. sugar. 1 1 ... review or comment to the recipe above. Recipes related to Lillian's ...
Cooks.com - Recipes - Clove Candy - Page 3
Home > Recipes > clove candy. The People of China and Their Food (Multicultural Cookbooks) ... Page 3 of 37 results for clove candy. Result Page: Previous 1 2 3 4 ...
Cooks.com - Recipes - Candy Clove
Home > Recipes > candy clove. The Tagine Deck: 25 Recipes for Slow ... LILLIAN'S CLOVE CANDY. Mix sugar, corn syrup and water in a large saucepan. Stir over ...
clove candy Recipes at Epicurious.com
Gingerbread Candy Canes Epicurious, December 2005. Angry Lobster with ... Delicious recipes for showers, engagement parties, and receptions, plus menu ...
Cooks.com - Recipes - Clove Candy - Page 2
Home > Recipes > clove candy. Asian Pasta (Recipes from the Vineyards of Northern ... wine, this book features Asian pasta recipes that may contain wine and also incl...


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Review Mlc Eyewear With Features Comparison
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subset: commoncrawl


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WATSONVILLE >> Two weeks ago, Gary Garcia was setting up a fireworks booth for a wrestling fundraiser when one of his kids, carrying a box, asked, "Hey coach, where do I set this up?"
"It was like, 'Wow,'" Garcia recalled thinking, "'I'm not going to be called coach anymore.'"
After 35 years of shaping young wrestlers and young adults, the 64-year-old Garcia stepped down this past season as head wrestling coach at Watsonville High. He retired four years ago as a PE teacher, and says he made a deal with his wife, Theresa, he'd retire from coaching when she got ready to retire from her job in nonprofit healthcare. That time has come.
During his tenure with the Wildcatz, Garcia molded 13 CIF state-meet qualifiers, including two state champions and four runners-up. Garcia also had 19 Central Coast Section champions, and more than 70 CCS qualifiers, including some girls.
He founded the Watsonville Wolverines youth wrestling club — which later became the Rivercats — and raised thousands of dollars to do things like take kids to tournaments all over the state in a donated RV. He also mentored a lost youth who later became a state assemblyman.
Garcia expected his kids to win and, because of that, their achievements cover the wrestling room walls at Watsonville. But Garcia is remembered more by his wrestlers for teaching them to be people of character than for making them champions on the mat.
"I think if it wasn't for him coming into my life at a young age, I would have gone in a completely different direction," Assemblyman Luis Alejo said.
Alejo, 40, who recalled himself as a troubled teen on juvenile probation, said Garcia "is a hero in the books of a lot of young men in Watsonville." With Garcia's guidance, Alejo was a CCS runner-up in 1992, losing only to eventual Olympian and current Oklahoma State associate head coach Eric Guerrero.
"He gave us tough love," Alejo said. "He was always firm but fair."
Garcia always pushed his athletes in the wrestling room, so much that one wrestler came back years later to tell Garcia that Marine boot camp was nothing compared to Wildcatz workouts.
But Garcia was also known for just being there for his wrestlers. He would take them in that same RV to the beach and to the old drive-in theatre in Santa Cruz.
"He kept a lot of kids off the streets," said Gus Paz, who won a state title for Garcia in 1982 and coached with him for many of those 35 years, along with assistant Steve Okamura.
When people wanted to give money to the program, Paz said, Garcia never let his wrestlers just take it. He wanted his wrestlers to earn it, and not just be about themselves.
"And that's always the model he had in the wrestling room," Paz said. "Don't always take. Give back."
Watsonville has not hired a new coach yet, though Garcia is advocating for 21-year-old former wrestler and assistant coach Josh Castillo.
But the direction of the wrestling program is out of Garcia's control now, even if not out of his mind.
He says he'll spend quite a bit of time reflecting back on the past 35 years and what he learned as well as taught. He'll also spend time traveling (he's planning his second retirement trip to Indonesia to do some stand-up paddling), visiting his kids and grandkids in Sacramento and working on a blue 1953 Chevy Handyman and 1982 Honda Gold Wing motorcycle.
"I'm very thankful to the parents, present and past, the alumni," Garcia said, "and, most importantly, my wife and my two right-hand guys, Gus and Steve."
Some of the things Garcia says he learned: Winning does matter, but using sports as a tool to build good people matters more, and coaches should reinforce the values parents teach.
He then pauses for this last one.
"It's easy to leave Watsonville," he said. "It's easy. Anybody can do that. But my passion was that there are a lot of good kids in this community. What I learned is there have to be people who are willing to stick around and be there for the kids."


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TA adds a Dunkin' Donuts to its Mebane Petro Stopping Center to complement the location's full-service Iron Skillet restaurant. TravelCenters of America LLC (TA) has announced the opening of Dunkin' Donuts at the Petro Stopping Center located at I-40/I-85, Exit 157 in Mebane, N.C. The new location will be open from 5 a.m. to 10
TA Opens Its Fourth Dunkin' Donuts
RaceTrac Debuts Prototype Store
"The whole goal is to take you back to the idea of a neighborhood store versus a traditional gas station," says RaceTrac spokesperson. RaceTrac opened a new store this week on the corner of Cherokee Street and Lake Acworth Drive in Acworth, Ga., that is set to serve as the prototype for all new RaceTrac
Stripes Celebrates Grand Opening in Marble Falls
Ribbon cutting, check presentation and prize giveaways planned as part of the new store celebration. A Stripes convenience store and gas station is opening on Jan. 6 at U.S. 281 in Marble Falls, Texas, The River Cities Daily Tribune Online reported. A grand opening event is set to include a ribbon cutting at 501 U.S.


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HP OpenVMS Systemsask the wizard
The Question is:
When we want to backup the database, and no matter we use Oracle on-line backup or off-line backup, the data didn't be backup to tape. The Oracle Database data file is 4 GB size, but if we want to backup the datafile to tape, the command will be finished in very short time, maybe only 1 minutes. We check the backup tape data, the data seem to be only backup the datafile header. So we don't know what happen in the backup command.
The Answer is :
Please ask Oracle for assistance and recommendations here. The interlocks that you are overriding were implemented for a reason, and not simply to force you to enter /IGNORE=INTERLOCK. By ignoring the interlocks, you are explicitly permitting data inconsistencies to occur within the BACKUP contents. Your OpenVMS Alpha release is woefully out of date, and the OpenVMS Wizard STRONGLY encourages you to upgrade to V7.1-2, V7.2-2, or to current. Please move off this and off any other hardware release as soon as a subsequent non-hardware release is available.


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Riverdales27 9 years ago#1
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Fresno State (1-2) (1-6) & (1-9) since we faced USC
we suck this season! i blame it on USC!
Riverdales27 (Topic Creator)9 years ago#2
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Fresno State (1-2) (1-6) & (1-9) since we faced USC
we suck this season! i blame it on USC!
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it is really about "squeaking" about important things like softer loinclothes rather than BCs paws for example.
i HAVE seen their facebook and it is atrocious and they must have good mods or are just lucky since there hasnt been a sale since their forums are tame-ish as well.
but it IS true no coupon was needed to sell any MOTUC figures yet.
I want NA Skeletor and Rio Blast and I want them now!
There is a good side here if this is a fan pitch: He-Man.org or MVC can do Illumina's staction (or AF) by themselves ...maybe including that secret bible together ( oh, excluding the parts already used by Mattel )
"One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them,
One ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them..."
I'm supporting Power and Honour Foundation!
/ | \\___
/........|-.... |. ..... o\
Ok... so this whole "fan pitched" thing could have come from the legal PR guys and not necessarily Toyguru? Is that what you are saying Toy Guru? Cause honestly I think that was what got fans upset the most and it wasn't totally addressed/clear in your post.
I think maybe just proof reading things better and being more careful about how you word things might help relations a little... and on fans side too as we all need to not just type and push send without really reading over what we've written. I just think that answer could have really benefited from some different wording. Wording that still was ok with Pr/legal, and not such a fire starter with fans. As I say this I'm sure my post is littered with typos and errors... granted i'm not a billion dollar company but still haha.
Anyway, maybe we should all lay off Toyguru a bit eh? He's the messenger in this situation and we keep burning him at the stake. Maybe we should just offer up constructive criticism about the situation with out personal attacks especially since i think personally attacking other members is against the board rules and he's still a member here and fan. That said I do really wish the calling things from MVC fan pitched thing would be addressed. I think the people behind that part of MOTU deserve a bit more respect/credit.
EDIT: Whilst you are visiting this thread TG... any way the matty site could get new battle cat pictures that don't have his armor sliding off of his butt? lol
Last edited by Patreek; February 12, 2010 at 05:42pm.
Check me out: www.patrickireland.net
An era is a span of time. The work of MVCreations is part of the 2002-2007 era, just as the work of Mike Young Productions is part of that same era. The Four Horsemen worked during that era, and they're also working during this new era.
Also, I'm not trying to diminish what MVCreations did.
As I said before, that number counter is probably freezing and alone.
And after having a billing issue last month with Adora, I'm actually surprised I haven't just changed the card numbers on the couple of cards Digital River has on file for me to keep them from ever being able to charge anything to me ever again.
That, along with things like lack of Quality Control and availability, made it really easy for me to get rid of what little desire I had to be a completist, too.
Remember, Mattel needs us to buy the toys more than we need them to make them.
I dont see the big deal or the 'insult' in matty not making a figure of Illumina. I would not mind a figure of her but cant say I care if we dont get her. She never seemed all that interesting.
I still dont find that insulting, except to the makers of the comic of course! But not to me as a fan.
Well it's highly insulting to me as a fan! I spent a lot of money getting all my comics to the UK, and the story's developed there in were some of the finest ever associated to the brand (IMO). People took what MVC were doing to heart, they understood the passion and hardwork that went into the comics, it was even more special for some, because it was professional artist's who were fans telling other fans the stories they wanted to hear, whilst giving MOTU the respect it truly deserved. For that to now all be totally ignored and downgraded is just wrong. We as fans owe MVC a lot, if I am not mistaken it's MVC who keep the org up and running for free, people have every right to be feeling very prickley right now. I wouldn't be supprised if there is a lot more going on here than many people know, but for one reasion or another Val & Emiliano can't say more! All I know is this, Val and Emiliano have never misinformed us but Mattel's story seems to change with the figure of the month! The very least Mattel could do if they are not going to use the MVC comic bible is let Val post it so they fan's who are passionate about the comic (and where it was going) can finally get closure they need. Mattel just sitting on the bible when they have no intention of ever using it is pointless, stubborn and crule IMO.
Last edited by Angel-T; February 13, 2010 at 05:30pm.
Who knows, perhaps Mattel do intend to use the MVCreations bible, just not every single part of it. Certain elements may get left out (such as Illumina and Evil-Lyn's backstory) while others remain intact (Trap Jaw's IOE origin).
I was wondering if the whole problem doesn't boil down to copyright issues.
I could imagine that Mattel doesn't want to produce an Illumina figure becaue the character design and background story was created by Val and Emiliano and if Mattel produced a figure based on their designs that fear that Val and Emiliano might want to earn some money with it.
Awesome sticker included!
There is no way we could claim any money on Illumina or anything else, neitehr we want to, and we made that clear.
What confuses me, is why Legal dept, says MVC story won't be used, while there are a few elements in the bio taken directly from our bible.
We can't claim ownership on any of that, we'd just be happy if they would say they are indeed using some or give us at least an explanation on why they can't be used (but again they're using it!)
This is just pure speculation on my part, but maybe for Mattel and this particular venture it's not about who knows the most MOTU/POP/NA/200X history or who told the best story or who has the majority of official documents from days gone by to work from.
In my experience, there have been situations where team spirit is elevated above some of those things in an effort to give the new guy or girl a chance at getting some experience. Mattel probably has a new team who are eager to put their spin on this collector's property. That may be why they're only willing to use some ideas from the MVC comics. Also, if you will recall, a huge chunk of the bios were already finished before the line even started.
OR they could just keep her story the same and make her a He-Man.org exclusive.
Take part in Illumina Day! Let people know who she is and help get her in MOTUC.
You can join the Illumina Facebook page here!
Pixel Dan will be at the NY Toy Fair, today, and he's supposed to interview Scott Neitlich (aka Toyguru)...
I wonder if this interview has been maintained and, if so, if Pixel Dan will ask some questions about the MVC "fan pitch" and Illumina issues.
It would be a good time to do so. We know there will be 4 new figures unveiled (that's IF what Toyguru said is still true, of course), but I think we shouldn't be blinded by the toys. There are OTHER important problems to deal with. Hope we'll learn more thanks to Pixel Dan...
I'm amazed they think Gygor isn't too obscure or confusing to make, but Illumina and her cat are.
Take part in Illumina Day! Let people know who she is and help get her in MOTUC.
You can join the Illumina Facebook page here!
It's been brought up before, so I figured I'd address this as well.
JUST in case this is some issue of ownership rights?....where Mattel doesn't want to produced Illumina for fear we will sue them or something?
Well, as I've said on the forums before in years past, and as I said to Mattel in years past, we will sign over the rights to Illumina for free!
We really don't care.
We automatically assume they own her anyway because of her comic appearance.
All Mattel Legal needs to do is draft up the paperwork, let my lawyer review it, and if it's all on the up-and-up? BOOM! Illumina and her cat is theirs, clean and clear.
NO more confusion! (if this is the reason behind all of this)
Emiliano and I are very easy going fellows.
Well... most of the time.
If Mattel would just give us the chance, they'd know this.
Heck, I'll fly out there on my own Priceline dime just to have a friendly face-to-face.


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Mine just arrived -- talk about a great break in the day at the office. Four Vibram Putters. One robin-egg blue, one blue swirl, and two in a greenish-teal color. Slightly different feels on the plastic among the discs -- teal are different than the blue).
I've got a Chief in the desk drawer at the office, so that's the only disc I've got handy to compare it to. It looks like the bead is just a tad larger than the Chief/Wizard, but has a slightly more rounded outer edge. Plastic reminds me a little bit of a Lightning #2 Upshot disc -- much nicer feeling than the Upshot, but more similar to that than to other plastics I can think of. Because it's got a similar flexibility to it. (For the record, I really liked the Upshot when it came out -- amazing catch disc and straight as an arrow; but without a bead, it just didn't hold up well in wind, so it never made the bag).
I'll try to get some pictures up tonight for folks to drool over. But I'm very excited to have the chance to throw these discs and see how they perform. I've been practicing my putting this winter, and it's better than it's ever been, so that makes me all the more excited to try these discs.


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Bruce Momjian wrote: >Right, under Administrative Tools, Local Security, User Rights >Assignment, I added 'postgres' to "Log On as a Service". > > That is remarkably obscure, at least for the average user (in this case, me.) Is there really no way to automate this in the installer? If not, I will add my vote to the clamour for relaxing the runas restrictions. cheers andrew
Next: From: Flip Mulder Date: 2004-07-28 12:50:17 Subject: SSL Connection Issue Previous: From: Christian Klemke Date: 2004-07-28 12:08:18 Subject: Re: win32 pgsql not installable


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Sleeps 9
Bedrooms 4
Bathrooms 3
Pets Yes
- Off road parking
- Ground floor bedroom
- Open fire
- Smoke-free
- Garden / Patio
- Highchair available
- Pub/shop < 1 mile
- Washing machine
- Dishwasher
The property
Touraneena 0.5 miles.
A brick built, detached dormer bungalow, situated on the edge of the pretty village of Touraneena, County Waterford.
This Waterford cottage is full of character, from the quirky decoration with fascinating artefacts of traditional Irish life, to the half stable door in the kitchen and open fire in the cosy sitting room.
This Waterford cottage is well presented, offering simple but comfortable accommodation, and enjoys excellent walking from the doorstep, fly fishing on the river in the village and a local pub offering warm Irish hospitality.
A little further from this Waterford cottage, the colourful town of Dungarvan has plenty to offer, including the Waterford Museum of Treasures, the House of Waterford Crystal and plenty of bars and restaurants.
After a day's touring, why not head back to the cottage and enjoy some alfresco dining on the decking, or curl up in front of the fire on those chilly evenings?
This Waterford cottage is a welcoming base at any time of the year.
Four bedrooms: 1 x ground floor double, 1 x ground floor family room with double and single bed, 2 x double with en-suite (shower, basin and WC). Bathroom with bath, basin and WC. Kitchen with dining area (seats 6) and breakfast bar with 2 stools. Sitting room with open fire.
- Oil central heating with open fire in sitting room
- Electric oven and hob, microwave, fridge, washing machine, dishwasher, TV, DVD
- Fuel and power inc. in rent
- Bed linen and towels inc. in rent
- Highchair available
- Off road parking for 5 cars
- Lawned garden to front and rear, decking area to rear
- One well-behaved pet welcome
- Sorry, no smoking
- Shop and pub 10 mins walk.
About the location
Dungarvan 13 miles; Clonmel 16 miles.
The village of Touraneena is beautifully scenic, nestled quietly between the Knockmealdown, Comeragh and Monavullagh Mountains. The village pub provides great Irish hospitality and produce. For a day trip, the Nire Valley, with its ancient Bronze Age sites and smoking waterfall, is well worth a visit, or for the more energetic, the 1200' climb will give you panoramic views of Waterford, Tipperary, Cork and Kilkenny. A little further afield but within easy reach, the town of Dungarvan can be found; a lovely, multi-coloured old harbour town, this is a real haven for fishing, boating, wind surfing and walking enthusiasts. Nearby attractions include the Round Tower and St Declans Way at the village of Ardmore, the beautiful Mount Melleray Abbey at Cappoquin and Lismore Castle. This area offers an abundance of activities guaranteed to provide a memorable holiday.


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Pardew: Champions League unlikely
Alan Pardew has played down Newcastle's hopes of securing Champions League football despite closing the gap on Tottenham to five points after a 3-1 win at West Brom.
Goals from Papiss Cisse (two) and Hatem Ben Arfa enabled the Magpies to move level on points with fifth-placed Chelsea in the Premier League before Shane Long's second half consolation effort.
But Pardew believes Newcastle are not well enough equipped to overhaul one of the top four.
Pardew said: "Are we Champions League contenders? I don't think so. The last 10 games are the most important ones in any season and we've won the first two of those.
"There are a lot of games left, a lot of points. But I don't think we've got the depth of squad to challenge for that (a Champions League place). I get told the fans might be thinking 'this is on' - but not me."
Ben Arfa, who set up Cisse's two goals, was the official man of the match and Pardew believes he is a reformed character worth a place in the France squad.
He said: "There are not many players who can do what he can do and it might be a nice wild card for France to have him in the squad. He really has knuckled down and there is a much more controlled person in his manner and the way he is around the training ground.
"I can say that publicly so it registers with the French manager. In the past in France there was some reputation that he was an 'enfant terrible' but not here. He has been immaculate and especially this season he has really kind of focused and got his mind set in a good place."
Pardew confirmed Newcastle skipper Fabricio Coloccini will miss next weekend's clash against Liverpool with a hamstring injury.
But Albion head coach Roy Hodgson could be without midfielder James Morrison for a much longer period after he limped out of the action with a knee ligament injury.
Albion had to finish the game with 10 men as they had already used their three substitutes.
Hodgson said: "It's knee ligament damage. He will have the scan tomorrow and we will see what brings. The initial prognosis from the medical team is not good. We have to see what ligaments in the knee have been affected."
Hodgson insists his stance has not changed regarding the England job after his remarks in a radio interview yesterday prompted headlines on Sunday morning.
He has been the subject of speculation linking him as one of the candidates to replace Fabio Capello.
Hodgson said: "I can give you verbatim what I said. The radio guy said to me 'if you were offered the England job, would you take it?' My direct answer was: 'It would seem to me as an Englishman, you would need a very good reason to turn it down.' That's what I said.
"What I've said all along is that the FA are going through the process and I just happen to be one of the people caught up in the speculation about what they are going to do. I find myself having to answer questions which really and truly don't have anything to do with the job you are doing at this moment in time.
"My stance hasn't changed at all. It is an important job, I wish the FA every success with their appointment.''
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text:
From the CEO's Desk
I've been on board at Fishbowl just about three weeks now. I recently had the chance to meet some of you at the NRA's October MEG and Innovation Summits. Now that I've seen what this company and our clients can do, I'm excited about the opportunity ahead of us. I plan to build on Fishbowl's position as the trusted technology partner to the restaurant industry — starting now. My goal is to strengthen our longstanding relationships by providing you with the innovation and thought leadership you need to transition into the world of Big Data.
What does that really mean? At a high level, Big Data and predictive analytics offer restaurant marketers the opportunity to turn guest centric information from myriad sources and silos into business insights, which you in turn can leverage to grow your business. In the digital marketplace, we have already seen in other industries that data driven customer insights and marketing programs are critical to building competitive advantage and sustainability.
We have already begun the innovation journey. Fishbowl has evolved from an email service provider into a technology company that delivers data driven solutions like Promotions Manager and Loyalty Analytics. We recently worked with our longtime partner Jamba Juice and with Groupon to deliver a highly successful national campaign to Groupon's mobile audience, leveraging Promotions Manager for real time validation, item-level restrictions, and back end data analytics. We are responding to the rapid changes in technology as the innovator on whom you can depend for industry focused solutions that deliver value, more revenues, and increased ROI for your business.
Now that I have settled in, my first priority is to meet with all of you and talk about where we are headed. I look forward to sharing our vision with you and to listening to you and learning more about your needs and challenges. In the meantime, don't hesitate to contact me with any thoughts or questions.


text:
This is the website/blog of Philosopher Stephen Law. Stephen is Reader in philosophy at Heythrop College, University of London, and editor of the Royal Institute of Philosophy journal THINK. He has published several books (see sidebar). For school talks and media email: think-AT-royalinstitutephilosophy.org
Saturday, June 28, 2008
Problem of evil
42 comments:
- Sally_bm said...
I thought we wrapped it up concluding that Rev Sam, as he himself admitted, had no reasonable solution to the PofE but believed there was one (a solution) nonetheless, that maybe, one day, he'd find- and, please, share it with us all! Sam in the end said that the other discussions (Wittgenstein etc) were seperate issues, accidentally masking the fact that he had no satisfactory solution to he problem. Non?
- June 28, 2008 at 8:54 PM
- anticant said...
During a recent light-hearted discussion with a lifelong Roman Catholic friend [ex-priest] we raised the problem of evil, to which he responded with "Ah, you're using logic to address a theological question! Do you know about Pascal's Wager?" "Oh yes", we replied, "but the problem with THAT is that he doesn't say which god it's advisable to believe in to escape going to Hell. Mightn't it be Allah, Thor, or maybe Baal?" "Oh dear", he said, "I'd never thought of that - I'll have to ponder over it".
And I used to think that Catholic theologians were astute casuists....
- June 29, 2008 at 10:45 AM
- Andrew Louis said...
In Steven Pinker's book, "The Blank Slate", he talks of an experiment per form on Dogs. In it they a control group of dogs raised in a normal environment and a test group raised in a pain free environment. After some time in the dogs development they took the normal dogs and pricked them on the paw with a needle, and as expected gave out a yelp. On the other hand the so far pain free dogs were pricked and they gave no reaction what so ever.
The point was to suggest that pain is learned.
So what's the problem with evil, I'm sure I see it? It seems to me that we know everything not because of the thing in itself, but as a relationship to other things. In other words without evil, how do we know love? How does one know he's feeling great if he's never felt like garbage? And why does a meal always taste so great after you've suffered for it?
Chinese philosopher Mencius says: when heaven wants to perfect a great man it tries him in every possible way until he comes out triumphantly from all his painful experiences.
(which of course doesn't necessarily suggest that he lives either.)
- June 29, 2008 at 12:26 PM
- Stephen Law said...
Hello Andrew - let me know what you think of this:
- June 29, 2008 at 12:32 PM
andrew - The other interpretation of the Pinker experiment is that the pain response is learned. Contrast this with experiments on lab rats where the animal is held underwater despite its struggles until it almost drowns. After many repetitions of this it stops struggling. Has is lost its fear? Does it accept its fate or simply learned that faced with an implacable lab technician it is simply futile to struggle?
It is also not a given that evil is required to know love. Did Pinker's dogs not wag their tails when being petted or fed?
- June 29, 2008 at 1:11 PM
- Andrew Louis said...
This is certainly a good case to put in front of a Judeo-Christian thinker. Although I confess that, whereas I do have a deep respect for those values and traditions, my view of God does not follow from it.
I think it a bit idolatrous to assign God characteristics which are clearly human (and I use idolatrous from the Christian perspective). To say that God is "good", or "bad", is to place God in a box, to mistake the finger for the moon. Defining something or giving it a definition is a conscious act of division and thus differentiates it from other things. God should not be looked at in this way; rather God should be looked at as all embracing from which all things are derived.
I feel this act of differentiation is a Christian flaw stemming from western forms of logic finding they're way into "mystic"/intuitive thinking.
- June 29, 2008 at 2:17 PM
- Stephen Law said...
Hi Andrew - but if God is not good, there is no problem of evil. So why were you offering solutions to it?
Is your God worship-worthy, I wonder?
- June 29, 2008 at 2:39 PM
- Andrew Louis said...
That's what I'm saying... The pain response is learned.
When Pinker's dogs wave they're tails:
I have a dog myself, and when I get home he wags his tail, jumps up me, licks my face, so on and so on. He's been without me all day, he's happy to see me (there's an opposition there). But after I've been a home a while, he goes to his corner. Surely he gets bored with me... Sorta like my wife.
Do you miss someone after you've been in the same room with them for hours, even days?
- June 29, 2008 at 2:45 PM
- Andrew Louis said...
Stephen, (good point, I just think it's an interesting conversation, wanted to jump in with a different perspective)
I'm simply saying I find Christian thinking flawed in this respect and I don't think theres a solution as a result. I would tend to agree with you that evil is a problem if God is called Good.
Is my God worship worthy? If by worship you mean going to church, praying (asking for stuff, hope and forgiveness), then no. If by worship you mean waking in the morning and making your bed, eating when you hungry, then yes.
- June 29, 2008 at 2:55 PM
Andrew - Well actually you said "The point was to suggest that pain is learned. "
My point is that I do not think the lack of a learned response indicates the lack of pain. Admittedly Pinker's book may go into this in greater depth and actually draw this conclusion but on the basis of what you said this did not appear to be the case. Would you perform surgery without pain relief (assuming this is medically OK) on new-born babies or puppies on the grounds that they had not sufficient experience to have learned pain?
- June 29, 2008 at 6:51 PM
- Andrew Louis said...
the point wasn't to suggest that they were not feeling anything (surely the felt something, presumably what we call pain). It was to suggest that they were unable to interpret what they were feeling as a detriment to they're being and therefore they're body did not respond physiologically by reacting in some frantic manner and releasing endorphins into the brain. The dogs simply didn't know what to think of the sensation, they didn't (for the first time feeling it) necessarily look at it as a bad thing and therefore did not react.
You LEARN that the sensation of pain is bad. And of course Pinker fills in all the physiological holes of hows he believe this works.
- June 29, 2008 at 7:58 PM
- David B. Ellis said...
I thought we wrapped it up concluding that Rev Sam, as he himself admitted, had no reasonable solution to the PofE but believed there was one (a solution) nonetheless, that maybe, one day, he'd find- and, please, share it with us all!
Oh, there's a perfectly reasonable solution to the POE:
God doesn't intervene to aid those in tremendous suffering because fictional characters can't actually do anything for those in distress.
Its just not a solution that Rev Sam or other theists like.
- June 29, 2008 at 11:00 PM
anyone have any weblinks to information regarding the experiment with the dogs mentioned here?
- June 30, 2008 at 5:44 AM
- Andrew Louis said...
The experimental dogs were reared in isolation from puppies to mature dogs in cages that were designed to eliminate all sensory stimulation possible, and all social contact. The control dogs were reared normally in the laboratory and in private homes as pets..........
I don't recall if this was the one referenced in the book, but here is a link to such an experiment...
- June 30, 2008 at 12:18 PM
- jeremy said...
If you have the time, please could you let me know where in the book that experiment is. I've got the book, but I don't recall that particular conclusion, I'm afraid. I'm also not sure the conclusion's characteristic of Pinker, either, but I may be mistaken, of course!
- June 30, 2008 at 2:49 PM
Does evil exist?
- June 30, 2008 at 4:07 PM
- David B. Ellis said...
Evil, in the context of the POE, refers to suffering (which can be subdivided into natural evils, suffering caused by natural processes--disease, tornadoes and the like, and moral evils--suffering caused to one individual by another).
Suffering does exist so, yes, even for a moral nihilist, evil exists in the sense the work is used in this context.
The confusion over this term is why I prefer to call the problem of evil the problem of unnecessary suffering.
It avoids a lot of confusion.
- June 30, 2008 at 4:33 PM
- Stephen Law said...
Hi anonymous. Perhaps you are not aware that the problem of evil is the problem of naturally caused suffering and moral depravity (e.g. torture of the innocent). Such evil clearly exists.
Not sure what you had in mind.
- June 30, 2008 at 4:34 PM
- Andrew Louis said...
just out of curiosity. If you were to make an argument in support of Sam on the problem of evil, how would you do it? Simply for the sake of flexing intellectual ego....
Is there a logicacl arguement to be had beyond what you layed out here?: (not that these are logical)(http://stephenlaw.blogspot.com/2007/03/god-of-eth.html)
Do you expect Sam in this case to actually come up with something beyond mysticism that's plausable?
- June 30, 2008 at 7:32 PM
- Stephen Law said...
Hi Andrew
I can't construct a decent argument in defence of Sam's position. It seems rationally indefensible.
I expect Sam to come up with a half decent argument if he wishes to maintain that his position is not unreasonable.
The God Eth article was an early draft. I have a much more worked out academic version now. There are other args against the existence of God, of course.
- June 30, 2008 at 8:21 PM
Bump for info regarding pain, dogs, and learned responses. Google gives me nothing on it.
- July 1, 2008 at 12:18 AM
Well, I was just thinking about what I consider to be evil. For example, I would consider many of the acts of Hitler as evil, likewise I would consider for many of the acts during the crusades as evil. Acts causing unnecessary suffering.
But, clearly Hitler or the crusaders thought what they were doing was not evil, they believed the suffering they caused was not unnecessary.
In essence it is their perspective against mine.
In fact the very use of the word "unnecessary" is a judgment call. It is saying, in my opinion it is unnecessary. But others would say some times of suffering are necessary.
A modern example would be the abortion problem. Some would say that abortion is a necessary "evil". Others would say it is an unnecessary "evil". Meanwhile others would say it is not "evil" at all but a good thing.
The rationality and ethics tend to hinge ultimately on certain vague terms, such as personhood. Degrees of suffering, and varied degrees of rights.
So... is evil just perspective? Or can it be measured? Does it actually exist? Or is it a construct based in our definitions of necessary... If you get what I mean.
Sorry if I am rambling, I am a novice but someone that likes to think all the same.
- July 1, 2008 at 12:25 AM
- anticant said...
Stephen: why do you persist in thinking that logic can be fruitfully applied to theology - which, by definition, is grounded in irrational beliefs? You are never going to convince Sam, or any other theist, that their faith is misguided by using logical arguments.
anonymous: why do you think that Hitler, Stalin, Torquemada, Pol Pot, or any other persecuting tyrant considered that the suffering they caused was "necessary"? Most likely, they never even thought about it, because for them, acting out their perverted beliefs was obviously "for the best".
Remember Stalin's remark to Churchill that "the death of one man is a tragedy; the death of millions is a statistic."
- July 1, 2008 at 12:57 AM
- Jackie said...
anticant, if not by logic, then how do you think people stop believing in gods? Logic is what lead me to atheism. Some theists want to be logical. They like to think that they are logical. Someday, after seeing how they can't logically suport their beliefs, they may recognise that they can't be logical and faithful, and will make a choice. Some will choose logic.
- July 1, 2008 at 2:32 AM
- David B. Ellis said...
But, clearly Hitler or the crusaders thought what they were doing was not evil, they believed the suffering they caused was not unnecessary.
In essence it is their perspective against mine.
The POE is only applicable to beings both omnipotent and omnibenevolent. Neither of which applies to any human being. Including Hitler.
And the question is why, for example, an omnipotent being would need to allow a child to be born with torturous genetic defects that cause it to live a short and agonizing life. It is implausible in the extreme to say that child's suffering was necessary in order to achieve some greater good when talking about an omnipotent being.
- July 1, 2008 at 6:41 AM
- anticant said...
There is no "problem of evil" unless you believe in an omnipotent, omnibenevolent Being.
Wickedness, cruelty, and moral depravity [in human terms] are real. They are the real problem, which we should be addressing in human terms. Arguments about a fictional 'problem of evil' posed by the hypothetical existence of a God for whom there is no credible evidence are just a waste of time.
- July 1, 2008 at 7:04 AM
- Andrew Louis said...
Once again, here it is:
Melzack, R., & Scott, T. H. The effects of early experience on the response to pain. The Journal of Comparative and Physiological Psychology, 1957, 50, 155-161.
- July 1, 2008 at 12:10 PM
Found the button for name (slow on these computer things I know...)
thanks for the reply.. I am well interested now! I replied from home on the other one, this is during my late lunch break at work now :(
Please continue to excuse the crap philosophy of mine, I am not trained at all in the jargon I've just read a bit, and read one of Dr Law's books recently and found this blog...
david b.ellis kindly replied... "the question is why, for example, an omnipotent being would need to allow a child to be born with torturous genetic defects that cause it to live a short and agonizing life. It is implausible in the extreme to say that child's suffering was necessary in order to achieve some greater good when talking about an omnipotent being"
Something like Tay Sach would fit here I think?
But do you or I decide what is unnecessary? Or does a culture? Or does a doctrine?
Whilst I agree that such a necessary life is implausible, that is just you and me agreeing.
In pure (sick I totally agree but go with me) survival of the fittest thinking, the child that dies from genetic defect is necessary in order to improve the survival and progress of our species.
So is it a necessary thing if you held such a view of the purpose of life? I would argue no because I disagree with that purpose, because I have been brought up in my culture and by parents to value life and cherish it, not to think of nature as "red in tooth and claw". The childs suffering then appears to me as though it is unnecessary.
So in order to define "unnecessary" or evil, a filter or a category of genuine unnecessary suffering or evil should exist?
The basic (crude i know and there is much more to it) argument is...
1) A good god exists
2) Unnecessary suffering exists
3) A good god would not allow unnecessary suffering (point argued by Dr Law)
4) Therefore a good god does not exist
But does evil (unnecessary suffering) exist in reality and not just in my opinion or your opinion or Dr Law's or anyones?
Because as you have suggested.. opinions of humans vary and only in the context of an omnipotent being would there be real definition of unnecessary suffering because only there would there be a defintion of goodness and a being capable of rendering that which is not good as not actual. But that definition would belong to that being not to you or I correct?
If however our definition of goodness and context for unnecessary suffering or evil does not exist, you cannot use it's hypothetical existence to rid yourself of a good god....
If however evil in the context of my argument refers merely to my own understanding of unnecessary suffering and therefore evil, then I can only question the goodness or activity of a god from my own aprehensioon of goodness, I cannot remove that god all together, I just end up saying well if god exists I don't like god. Churchill's comment... "god, god is a shit!" is about where you end up.
I can therefore only say.. In my opinion the evil that exists excludes a good omnipotent god.
But that is my opinion not a necessary conclusion. Even with a concensus of my friends and people that hold similar theological or philosophical positions we are still left with opinion, strong opinion but opinion none the less rather than a necessary conclusion.
To remove god surely we would have to quantify evil... Put a measure or scale on it, else it is left with opinion and perspective.
So in essence to convince people that a good god cannot exist because of the unnecessary suffering we would have to put a unit of measure on the evil in existence and say 25 spags of evil exist compared to 2 sprogs of good, a ration of 5:1 is justifiable but this is a ration of 12.5:1 and hence a good god is implausible.
It seems rather a long circle to me unless you have an objective measure of unnecessary suffering. Because some argue that god does have some sort of plan and allows stuff and that they just trust that god knows what he is doing... In essence they suggest that what appears unnecessary to me is necessary to god in his "infinite" wisdom and hence they stick with god....
I don't think it will change any hearts if we bottle down to "in my opinion if I was an omnipotent good god I would not allow evil".... Because I am not a good omnipotent god so I am kind of stuffed on that one! A fact for which I am sure you are all grateful for, mostly because if that god does exist spending time on here is probably not what you would want him to be doing anyway :)
- July 1, 2008 at 2:17 PM
Surely an omnipotent God could arrange things so that even suffering which was only in the opinion of the sufferers was eliminated? Didn't see many people falling into a deep sleep full of happy dreams just before the last tsunami did we?
The natural selection argument does not really apply here; this only applies to fitness for reproduction. Removal from the gene pool can be quite painless.
If you like, the quantification of evil is one of the tactics often used to excuse God. In effect saying that some evils are outweighed by greater goods and that (I think this is key) the evil is a logical necessity for the good to occur.
Stephen did a piece about the idea of suffering being needed to build character for instance - you might want to have a look here
- July 1, 2008 at 4:37 PM
- anticant said...
bob_farmer - you don't require "jargon" to practise philosophy; just a questioning critical faculty and close attention to the accurate meanings of words and the ways in which they are being used in the discussion.
Unlike religion, philosophy isn't an 'esoteric' subject comprehensible only to the initiated. Ultimately it is about the application of reason and logic, however jargon-ridden some philosophical texts may be.
Stephen, no doubt, will correct me about this??
- July 1, 2008 at 5:20 PM
"Surely an omnipotent God could arrange things so that even suffering which was only in the opinion of the sufferers was eliminated?"
Am i suffering if I lack food? - Yes
Am I suffering if I lack an ipod? - Depends on your definition of what is necessary for your needs correct? For example if it was necessary that I had an ipod and I lacked one, I would be suffering....
In essence you think of god as some sort of cosmic vending machine....
But that would be a god that lacked will, but rather god would be there to satisfy the will and desire of others. If that is what your idea of god is, then it is at odds with many other's ideas of god.
I mean there are so many different ideas of god out there, heck even the western view of god is so varied. For example a christian friend of mine would simply reply, well god keeps a promise and so when he said he would do one thing, he would not do the opposite. That changes the idea of what omnipotence is... It gets around the argument of, can god make a rock he cant move? The answer from my friend is simple, yes, he just promises not to move it.
In essence we are back to perception of necessary suffering although I do not agree that if god was good and omnipotent he would have to supply according to the perceived needs of his creatures, rather he would supply according to his perception of their needs...
We are back to perception... If I were god I would not do it that way... But I am not god... It doesn't help me convince the theist to change...
If quantification of evil is a tactic used against the problem of evil argument and we have no counter but leaning back on our perception we are at a dead end surely... has no-one offered an objective measure of evil that would be used to say... this exists so god cannot?
- July 1, 2008 at 5:52 PM
- anticant said...
"some sort of cosmic vending machine...."
Brilliant!That's exactly how a great many believers do appear to think of God.
- July 1, 2008 at 9:14 PM
Thanks Andrew, I read the article and found it quite interesting (and ethically problematic).
One set of experiments describes two sets of dogs, one of which was deprived of all normal interaction from 4 weeks to 8 months of age. In this way, their opportunities to feel pain would have been greatly reduced. By hypothesis, during this time strategies are learned for avoiding pain which are important for the course of the dogs life.
The dogs were chased around with an electric car that would deliver a shock. If the dog was able to avoid the shock 5 times in a row, testing would be halted. The isolated dogs, being less able to avoid the car, naturally received more shocks than the control group dogs (something like ~4 times as many shocks). Interestingly, 2 of the isolated dogs were completely crap at avoiding the car, and were shocked to the maximum allowed without making any real effort to avoid it (40 times was the upper limit). The average number of shocks for the isolated dogs as a group was ~24.
Generally, the control group of dogs were much better at avoiding source of pain (i.e. the remote control car) as compared with those dogs who had been isolated. The isolated dogs most certainly felt the pain, they were just not as skilled in avoiding it. The control dogs would wait until the last moment before moving in order to avoid being shocked, whereas the movements of the isolated dogs were much more exaggerated.
2 years later 2 of the isolated dogs were tested again. They showed improvement (16 shock average), but still were not as efficient at avoiding pain as the dogs who were exposed to it at the developmental stage.
- July 1, 2008 at 11:55 PM
Perhaps those conducting the experiment considered their actions to be necessary provocation of suffering for a percieved greater good...
the question remains... if evil only exists in reality (and not merely by individual or group perspective) if there is a god, cant it really be said... evil exits so god cannot?
brings me back to... it is possible god exists, i just dont like him...
but that again is perspective..
I've been thinking about the greater good idea regarding this experiment...
It all depends on the outcome and ultimately purpose as to if some suffering is necessary...
the argument the problem of evil presumes that the purpose of life is a suffering free life. Hence suffering is wrong.
But what if the purpose of life is not that, what if the purpose of life is to discover your need for god? Perspective of suffering changes then, from that of unnecessary to that of essential, without suffering we would not know we lacked anything, and with seemingly unnecessary suffering it would be necessary for god to exist... hence we would look for god.
But what kind of god would we look for... the grand judge in the sky? the omnipotent tyrant? or a god that is suffering too?
Just random thoughts, I am not converting!
- July 2, 2008 at 12:04 PM
- David B. Ellis said...
- This comment has been removed by the author.
- July 2, 2008 at 3:41 PM
bob - the point about "suffering in the opinion of the suffer" was motivated by soething I read about the definition of pain.
"'Pain is whatever the experiencing person says it is, existing whenever he says it does".
Admittedly this is from a Wikipedia entry and I haven't drilled down to the attributed source (M. McCaffery) but it seems a workable definition.
I was really trying to highlight the idea that even if certain events are "for the greater good" - e.g. thousands must die in an earthquake, they need not suffer.
Following on the medical theme rather than the vending machine, surgeons do not (usually) simply hack away irrespective of the patients pain, safe in the certainty that an effective cure outweighs all else they administer analgesia if at all possible. So why shouldn't God? Whats the point of being omnipotent if you can't help people? Unless of course you enjoy having them to suffer...
- July 2, 2008 at 4:53 PM
Well, the surgeon illustration could also be used in favour of god...
Surgeons use pain as a guide, yes they minimise it, and then use it to guide recovery. In addition, as I was reminded the other day, death is not an end to someone that believes in god.
Unless we can come up with some measure to detail exactly how much suffering is required before it is unnecessary. Such as a quantification of "evil" and as such, this much evil outweighs the reasonableness of any such good purpose we are stuck.
I'd hate to see the math, the waving of the eternity in heaven stick does make the balance in favour of god. I tried that one and suggested well some have eternity in hell and that pushes in the no god direction too. But then I am countered by the... Well god decides at the end of the day and he is good so would not do anything unjust in his eyes...
Brings me back to the I dont like god very much then thing. I hate to admit it but the christians do have a case. They suggest that suffering is a consequence not an intention. A god that is supposed to be both good and yet judge would then wish to reform and remove that consequence. You end up looking for a suffering god and the christians say that they have that one....
either way it comes down to my own personal opinion as to necessary, unnecessary, purpose of life if god exists, definition of omnipotence, and my own likes or dislikes...
if that is the case this argument will go on forever until we all find out the easy or hard way i guess.
- July 2, 2008 at 6:14 PM
- James F. Elliott said...
Stephen Law said:
"...but if God is not good, there is no problem of evil."
This is the crux of the matter. The Problem of Evil is not an argument against the existence of a god -- indeed, Greek mythology is rampant with such behavior on the part of its deities. It is specifically an argument against the conception of the specifically Christian iteration of god.
In order to properly appreciate pleasure or goodness, one must be able to juxtapose them to something. Thus pain and evil serve a purpose. The argument ultimately is useful because it eliminates the possibility of an all-powerful and benevolent creator: To be both, it would have been able to realize its experiment without including misery. A necessity of misery implies that there are limits to omnipotence, while a willful inclusion of evil implies a lack of benevolence.
"Idolatry" is just a semantic escape-clause from this fundamental problem.
- July 2, 2008 at 7:23 PM
- Andrew Louis said...
not sure what you're referring to - however when I use the term idolatry, it's all inclusive. Many Christians look at this term to simply include objective (corporeal) forms of idolatry, whereas they ignore "subjective/ideal" idolatry. By ideal I simply mean, (in the case I was referring), the assigning of attributes which can either be subjective (what's good and bad) and/or based on a dynamic set of relationships. In either case you differentiate the now object (God) and subject it to reason – in which case it cannot stand.
When you idolize God, you take away from (it's) essential essence.
- July 3, 2008 at 12:37 AM
"A necessity of misery implies that there are limits to omnipotence.."
Nice quote...
Ironically, I don't think the christians believe in a god with unlimited omnipotence....
For example, a god that keeps a promise would still be capable of anything, and yet limited by a commitment.
Is it possible that a god can commit not to act and actually would keep that commitment despite the pain it caused? What's more important, the word kept or the suffering that may result from keeping that word? A benevolent god would be hurt by this situation. If suffering was to result, a god that did not even try and reach out would be unloving, but do we not see that with christianity?
It is not logical to have unlimited omnipotence anyway, you don't need to go further than that if someone claims this about their god.
So if the christians claim their god is able to do absolutely anything, their god can lie, hence their god is not good in his own definition. You don't need the problem of evil to rid yourself of such a god concept. I know of very few christians who truly believe in the kind of god you are eliminating.
Clearly you havent been around enough christians that know what they are talking about.
- July 4, 2008 at 5:33 PM
- James F. Elliott said...
"I know of very few christians who truly believe in the kind of god you are eliminating."
The "No true Scotsman" fallacy doesn't exactly make for a compelling argument.
"Clearly you havent been around enough christians that know what they are talking about."
Is this the kind of forum where I can call bullshit on someone? Because "clearly," you can demonstrate no such thing. What you mean here, Mr. Farmer, is "Clearly you haven't spent enough time around Christians I agree with."
- July 7, 2008 at 7:11 PM
- James F. Elliott said...
When you idolize God, you take away from (it's) essential essence.
An essence that is diluted when you try to comprehend it? That's fracking ridonkulous.
I'm sorry, I have no way of being polite about it. That's the stupidest thing I've ever read.
- July 7, 2008 at 7:13 PM


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It's finally here! After months of preparation Sandy Carnival bring the community together in celebration tomorrow (Saturday, June 14).
The carnival takes a lot of work from the committee behind the scenes; members started preparing this year's big event back in October!
If you want to be in with a chance of seeing the floats parade past your door then it's important to know the route. After a brief change a couple of years ago, the procession will once again be using its original route.
The procession will assemble in All Saints Way at 12.30pm. The floats will be judged before the parade begins at 1.30pm.
Leaving All Saints Way, the floats will process into Western Way, London Road, West Road and St Neots Road.
It will then make its way through the town, turn into St Swithun's Way and return through the market square before crossing Park Road and ending in the car park at Sandye Place Academy.
The theme for 2014 is Anything Goes, which gives the entrants free rein to their imaginations.
The arena events will take place at Sandye Place.
The parade trophies will be awarded at 2pm.
This will be followed by the majorettes at 2.15pm, Jazzercise at 2.30pm, twirlers at 2.45pm and Zumba dancers at 3pm. At 3.15pm it will be time for Disco Duck and Biggleswade Dance School will take centre stage at 3.30pm.
Sandy Karate Club will be at 3.45pm and at 4pm there will be a Medieval tournament. The carnival will end with the raffle draw at 4.45pm.
Throughout the afternoon there will be stall and refreshments.
The raffle winner will take home £100. Other prizes include a patio pack, a free MOT, computer accessories, confectionery hampers, hair products, toys, wine and numerous vouchers, courtesy of local businesses.
Raffle tickets have been on sale around the town for several weeks and they will also be available in the arena.
The carnival committee will start planning next year's carnival in October. There will be monthly meetings until next June.
New members are needed as several key members of the committee are either standing down or taking a break from carnival planning after more than a decade of involvement.
Call Hayley Stewart on 01767 223911 or email her at email@example.com if you would like to find out more.


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Warsaw (Jul. 9)
Leon Leski-Koprowski, well known Polish-Jewish journalist, died here today at the age of forty-five.
Mr. Leski-Koprowski had been for many years on the editorial staff of the Nasz Prezeglad, a Polish-Jewish daily in Warsaw. He was also the expert political writer of the Moment, one of the largest Yiddish daily newspapers in Poland.
Mr. Leski-Koprowski was interested in the Zionist movement. He had been assigned by his paper to cover the World Zionist Congress which opens in Lucerne August 20. The Association of Jewish Journalists in Poland is making the arrangements for his funeral.


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Pontiac Community Picnic Attendees Are In for President Obama!
"Gimme that clipboard," said volunteer Robert G. "There's a fellow over there who I know has moved. Let's get him up to date."
Educating a potential voter is such an important part of what grassroots organizers do for their communities. One attendee, Mary C., was born in 1928 but hadn't voted in decades because of an old felony for which she had served her time. "I was told I can't vote," she said. "I waited in line a long time and when it was my turn they said 'no'." It was explained to her that in the state of Michigan, if a person has served their time for a felony, they have the right to vote.
There are many similar opportunities to register voters in Oakland County. Think you've got what it takes to get things going in your neighborhood? Contact Melissa Bernardi at 586.764.3344 [email protected] and she'll connect you with a volunteer leader in your area.


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Letter from Dan Turk in the United States, home from Magagascar
November 28, 2011
Dear Friends,
I got back from over three weeks in Madagascar on November 4. It was a very good trip. The Church of Jesus Christ in Madagascar (FJKM) church people expressed gratitude for the PC(USA)'s presence and partnership in domains such as evangelism, wells, fruit trees, HIV/AIDS education, and outreach to vulnerable children.
The crisis is creating great hardship. Statistics indicate that 1.5 million people have gone into poverty in the past two and a half years, for a total of 15 million people living in poverty out of a total population of 20 million. There are many more people begging on the streets. Crime is way up and almost everyone is economically stressed by the crisis; parents are having a hard time keeping their children in school.
Despite the crisis, the FJKM environment program is doing very well, especially the fruit tree work. Since 2006, the program has put in 11 new tree nurseries, 17 demonstration orchards, and is conducting 10 extension projects with 323 farmers. Most of the 175 varieties of fruit trees successfully introduced from Florida in the last 10 years are doing very well.
A highlight of my trip was the new fruit extension work at Antanetibe. Located about 65 miles northwest of Antananarivo, Antanetibe is an ideal site for growing tangerines primarily due to abundant cow manure and the availability of irrigation water from a stream in the hills above the village. The work at Antanetibe started after the FJKM environment program invited Antanetibe's leaders to send two representatives to get specialized training in August 2010 in planting, growing, and propagating fruit trees. As part of this training, the representatives, Cyril Rakotoarimanana and José Randriamiarana, went to Beambiaty, a village south of Tsiroanomandidy, where residents have gotten out of poverty by growing tangerines. Cyril realized that the climate and soil conditions of Antanetibe are very similar to those of Beambiaty. Cyril took it as a personal challenge to plant a large tangerine orchard. He now has 280 trees and his nursery provides tangerine trees for others.
At the end of the training Rolland Razafiarison, head of the FJKM environment program, asked Cyril and José to identify 15 people to receive training at Antanetibe. That training was so successful (and Cyril's enthusiasm so contagious) that pretty soon there was a request from over 40 other people who wanted to participate. So Rolland decided to change the approach to include all from Antanetibe and surrounding villages who wanted to take part. Now there are over 70 families who have planted an average of 20 tangerine trees each. Now less than one year old, the trees should begin producing good crops of fruit within six or seven years. Each family should make at least $600 per year after the trees get to full production. This should have a tremendous impact both on food security and family income, hopefully helping all the families to get out of poverty.
A visit to Ranomafana was another highlight of the trip. In Ranomafana the FJKM environment program has a fruit nursery, provides assistance and technical help to the Ranomafana Arboretum, and has begun extension work with 25 farmers. The Arboretum has an orchard of over 170 varieties, the largest collection of fruit trees available to the public in the country. Probably the most impressive native tree in the Arboretum is Dypsis robusta. It is a large palm with an enormous inflorescence over nine feet wide that hangs down almost to the ground. Truly an amazing sight. It is the only individual of its species known growing in the wild and therefore, pending the finding of other individuals, has a legitimate claim to the title "Rarest Tree in the World in the Wild." An article about this tree is in preparation to be published in the journal Palms. We already have about 50 Dypsis robusta seedlings in the nursery to be planted to help preserve the species.
I was also privileged to participate in the inauguration of 10 wells at Ambovombe Centre. The wells were part of the FJKM community health program's response to the people's need to address problems of diarrhea due to unsafe drinking water. The wells have rope-and-washer pumps constructed by the FJKM development unit at Ambositra. Since getting water from the new wells, the community health volunteers report that the incidence of diarrhea in the community has plummeted. At the inauguration the happy people gave gifts—including a turkey I was supposed to bring back to the United States for Elizabeth.
Thank you very much for your prayers and financial support for us as PC(USA) co-workers and for PC(USA)'s ministries in partnership with the FJKM church in Madagascar. Please continue to keep Madagascar in your prayers.
May our hope in Christ be renewed this Advent season as we focus on the baby in the manger who became our Saviour.
In Christ,
The 2011 Mission Yearbook for Prayer & Study, p. 71
The 2012 Presbyterian Mission Yearbook for Prayer & Study, p. 110
Write to Dan Turk
Write to Elizabeth Turk
Give to Dan and Elizabeth Turk's sending and support


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Demi Lovato WILL return as judge on 'The X-Factor'
With all the judge shuffling and ratings bloodletting going on in primetime singing shows these days, it's nice to hear someone will be staying put. Demi Lovato is sticking around for season 3 of The X-Factor, Fox announced Thursday. It's not like she has a show waiting for her in Las Vegas.
"I couldn't be happier that Demi wants to come back this year," Simon Cowell said in a statement, according to Deadline.com. "She's a superstar in her own right and was a fantastic mentor last year. Even though she can be really, really annoying – I truly enjoyed working with her and so did the artists. I'm especially pleased she's back even during her world tour!"
Britney Spears and L.A. Reid have both jumped ship on the S.S. Cowell, so naturally he's happy Demi is staying. he probably even got her at a discount rate, because last season's rating dropped 20 percent even with the addition of she and Spears. Going to rehab really hurts your market value.


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Discussion in 'English Only' started by jumper8777, Sep 28, 2006.
Hi all,
I saw this phrase from one news artical. But don't know what that meant?
Thanks in advance.
Customer here simply means guy or fellow, and cool means he has poise, doesn't show his reactions, or gets through stressful situations without showing any emotional strain.
It's sometimes implied that those stressful situations involve something hidden in his motives, or in his life in general. A smuggler going through customs has to learn how to come of as a pretty cool customer. A used car salesman can be a pretty cool customer (when dealing with literal customers), which implies that his sales pitch is smooth, impervious to arguments and objections-- possibly a little less than honest.
When faced by a group of reporters with questions about a certain unpleasantness involving finances or personal conduct, a poitician can be a very cool customer.
It depends on the context but it could be someone who is incredibly self assured. Imagine you are in a hospital and someone comes in takes all of the TVs or the PCs. Because they look right, wear blue overalls for example, nobody challenges them. They walk off with the lot and you slowly realise that you have been robbed by some pretty cool customers.
Consider it an idiom suggesting that someone is 'unflappable,' or 'imperturbable.'
It has a rather old-fashioned, pseudo-'hard-boiled' sound to it, though.
Really? I think here nobody would raise their eyebrows if they heard it, perhaps it's more common in the UK than in America.
Oh... Now I got it. Thank you all!!
Another perhaps slightly more quaint BE variation of 'cool customer' is 'slim customer', which seems have a very similar meaning, except I don't think you would use it to descibe a smuggler or car salesman - it has less of an edge to it.
Or 'cool as a cucumber' or 'butter wouldn't melt in his mouth' are both commonly used in BE to describe an unflappable individual.
Really, where is that used? I've never heard it. Is it a regional thing? I'm all ears.
All the best
I heard "slim customer" in the movie Lawrence of Arabia.
"Customer here simply means guy or fellow, and cool means he has poise, doesn't show his reactions, or gets through stressful situations without showing any emotional strain."
As Foxfirebrand notes in this quote from his post #2, it's important to understand it can be used just for that purpose only, and does not have to refer to anything having to do with goods or items or smuggling, etc.
He's a cool customer = He's unflappable/remains unperturbed in all situations.
"Unflappable" is a good word to describe a "cool customer." Thank you, Dale!
I guess it's the classic "smooth operator".
Separate names with a comma.


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New Jersey Criminal Defense and Business Transaction Lawyers
Dash Farrow, LLP
Moorestown, New Jersey 08057
(856) 235-8300
(856) 235-2622
Law Firm Overview
The law firm of Dash Farrow, LLP provides experienced legal counsel to individuals and businesses with issues related to driving under the influence (DUI) and drunk driving, criminal law and defense, real estate transactions and litigation, and corporate transactions and litigation.
When you retain one of our criminal lawyers in Burlington County, we immediately begin working on your behalf. We discuss the details of the case with you, contact prosecutors to discuss the charges, and may even launch our own investigation into the matter. If we find that your civil rights were violated at any point, we do not hesitate to bring that fact to light, and ensure that you are treated fairly during any future criminal proceedings.
Not only can Dash Farrow, LLP provide you with a capable criminal lawyer in Burlington County, our firm also handles real estate and corporate transactions as well.


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CRAVEN District Council has promised to do better after several weeks of problems with its car park pay and display machines.
Ticket machines in Coach Street car park are in the process of being replaced but trial, solar powered ones have proved to be temperamental.
On some days, including two over the Waterway Festival weekend - none of the machines was working, leading to frustrated visitors going to town council staff for help.
It is also believed one of the older machines was for a time giving off electric shocks.
Skipton ward councillor, Coun Robert Heseltine, said the council must be losing "significant revenue" and called on it to repair or replace the machines as soon as possible.
"I am given to understand that the council's political leadership and senior officers have been aware of these malfunctioning car park machines for several months," he said.
"The delay in rectifying the problem is descending into a farce, and apparently, the safety of the public is now at risk.
"Never mind the shock of having to pay inflated parking charges, I believe there has been an incident of a machine being electrically alive."
Coun Heseltine added: "You do not need to be Einstein to conclude that the council is losing significant revenue.
"Hopefully, Craven will immediately either maintain the machines properly or replace them with new units - an authority cannot claim to be hard up while also turning revenue away."
The council's asset and project manager, Hazel Smith, said the council regretted any inconvenience to members of the public trying to use the machines.
"I can assure them the issues with the car parking machines are being addressed.
"Unfortunately the two out of order pay and display machines in the Coach Street car park are not economically viable to repair, new ones have been ordered to replace them and we expect them to be installed by the end of June," she said.
"The new machine was a trial one and was out of order due to a full coin box. It has now been emptied and should be in good working order."
Ms Smith said income audits of the car parks were normally carried out every month, but staffing changes had led to a slight delay on both the April and May audits.
"They are now in the process of being completed, and we expect to complete both of them on or before next weekend."
When budgeting car park income, machine break-downs were always taken into account.
She added: "Customer service is very important to us and we understand the importance in ensuring all machines are working. We are addressing time scales in the fixing of faults on machines with our contractors."


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Discovering Syriac in Europe
Missionary activities in the Near East during the Early Modern period sparked a new interest in the languages and literatures of the region. By the late 16th and early 17th centuries Jesuit and Franciscan monks were active in Middle Eastern centers such as Aleppo, Damascus, Isfahan, and Tabriz. The aim of preaching to native populations necessitated study of local languages and, as a result, brought Europeans into contact with new literary traditions.
Syriac, which had played a major role in the Christian tradition for centuries, was recognized as an especially important subject for study. European printers produced a wave of Syriac texts, including Bible translations and theological and liturgical works. At the same time, systematic studies of the Syriac language itself began to appear: Syriac dictionaries and grammars were published in numerous European countries.
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Champ Car Titlewinner Sebastien Bourdais Chosen as Driver of the Year by TSN.ca Readers INDIANAPOLIS (January 3, 2005) -- Sebastien Bourdais ( ...
Champ Car Titlewinner Sebastien Bourdais Chosen as Driver of the Year by TSN.ca Readers
INDIANAPOLIS (January 3, 2005) -- Sebastien Bourdais (#2 McDonald's Ford-Cosworth/Lola/Bridgestone) scored just one of his seven Champ Car World Series victories in Canada this season but the Newman/Haas Racing pilot made a big impression with Canadian racing fans on his way to winning the 2004 Bridgestone Presents The Champ Car World Series Powered by Ford championship.
Bourdais was selected as the Champion of Champions in voting conducted on the TSN website, official website of the Canadian sports cable network. The Frenchman received 51 percent of the votes to outdistance Formula 1 champion Michael Schumacher, who scored 32 percent of the vote.
Bourdais won from pole at last year's Molson Indy Toronto, leading 75 of 84 laps en route to the victory. He led laps at each of the Canadian events in 2004 including a race-high 26 in Montreal in a race where he won the pole. He started third and scored a top-five finish in Vancouver as well and has led laps in four of the six Champ Car races he has run on Canadian soil.
The honor marks the second consecutive season that TSN.ca voters have named the Champ Car World Series champion as their choice, as Ontario native Paul Tracy (#1 Indeck Ford-Cosworth/Lola/Bridgestone) took the honor in 2003 after claiming his first Champ Car title.
World Rally Championship titlist Sebastien Loeb finished third in the voting followed by NASCAR champ Kurt Busch, Indy Racing League winner Tony Kanaan, World of Outlaws legend Steve Kinser and NHRA Top Fuel champ Tony Schumacher.
The honor adds to the growing list of accolades for the Champ Car titlewinner as Bourdais was named North American open-wheel driver of the year by ESPN.com and was also selected as a first-team All-American by the American Auto Racing Writers and Broadcasters Association.


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PRZOOM - /newswire/ -
London, Greater London, United Kingdom, 2012/02/22 - New state of the art office building in Southwark available through Moorevale - Moorevale.com.
Moorevale are delighted to report that the new state of the art office building opposite Bankside with an increased net lettable floor area of 54% is on schedule for completion this Easter. The new HQ building will provide just under 50,000 sq ft.
The Harlequin Building as it is known, is located in the increasingly desirable Bankside area adjacent to Tate Modern and the Blue Fin Building. Only a short walk from Waterloo and London Bridge stations, this area of the South Bank offers an eclectic mix of restaurants, bars, hotels and local shops all within a few minutes of the river. The building is well served by transport options via the Jubilee, Northern and Bakerloo lines, in addition to rail links at Waterloo, Waterloo East, Charing Cross and London Bridge which will be supplemented further when the new South Bank entrance into Blackfriars station opens.
For more information and a guide to quoting rent contact Charlie Bishop, Moorevale, 45 Clarges Street, Mayfair, London, W1J 7EP, Telephone +44(0)20 7399 2300 Email charliebishop[.]moorevale.com.
Moorevale (moorevale.com) was formed in 2003 by Mike Probert. Moorevale is a privately owned specialist property vehicle focusing on the office sector, mainly in London and the South East. Moorevale have invested over £430m either independently or jointly. Moorevale's core philosophy is that enhanced returns are only realised through a combination of exceptional market knowledge, timing, experience and bringing together the right team for each project.
Agency / Source: CJP Ltd
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We offer what our clients require – an innovative and flexible approach to providing financial administration and accounting services for Companies, Pension Schemes and Funds. We strive to deliver a tailored, quality service with a personal touch. Our aim is to build your vision.
Our services and expertise are founded on many years of working with businesses of all sizes, from start-ups through to FTSE 100 companies, and with some of the largest funds and defined benefit pension schemes. This heritage and experience enables us to give our clients the assurance and confidence they require when appointing us to manage their financial administration.


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The Shaquille O'Neal post-retirement honeymoon is officially over.
Miami Herald columnist Dan Le Batard rained on Shaq's parade with a scathing column Saturday:
"There is arrogance and ego in every athlete. It is a survival skill in their work-place jungle, a necessary tool. Some guys are just better at keeping it hidden. But what do you think that was when Tom Brady, sixth-round pick, introduced himself to Patriots owner Bob Kraft for the very first time by saying, "I'm the best decision you've ever made"?
Confidence is something you keep on the inside, to yourself; arrogance is just when it slips out of your mouth. That wasn't mere confidence Larry Bird was spouting when he told everyone in the room at the three-point contest that they were playing for second place.
But Shaq and Wilson seem to understand the media game more than most. Too many athletes take themselves too seriously. That's volatile when mixed with fans and media who also take their athletes and games too seriously, too. Newsman Dan Rather offers this as life advice: Take your work seriously but not yourself. You would be amazed what that buys you, even though it isn't the easiest thing to absorb in a stadium full of people paying to worship you.
Have you seen all the jerky stuff on Shaq's résumé? He has torched legends like Kobe Bryant, Phil Jackson and Pat Riley. He has called Erik Dampier "Erika" and Chris Bosh the RuPaul of NBA big men and gone after Dwight Howard, too. He has bullied trainers and Chris Quinn and behaved in a way that is oddly small. He never wanted to work hard, and helped oust Stan Van Gundy in Miami when pushed to do so. Given his overwhelming gifts and size, and his underwhelming work ethic, you could argue that he underachieved.
Re-read that paragraph. That's quite the sports rap sheet. And it is partial. Imagine all of those words coming out of the mouth of an unsmiling brooder. Shaq has harmed teams and coaches and teammates just like Owens. The differences: Only one of them jokes a lot. Only one of them works very hard, too.
(And only one of them got up on a nightclub stage to ask Kobe how his rear end tastes.)"
We've all known this about Shaq, but the media choses to ignore it most of the time. Why? Because despite the insults, O'Neal comes off as a gentle giant.
I applaud Le Batard for indirectly standing up for Bosh, but we won't remember this column when Inside the NBA returns and O'Neal is cracking jokes alongside Charles Barkley.


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Book Bank is turning a new page.
Despite facing competition from large chains and electronic readers, the independent bookstore is staying afloat by offering a narrower selection and a personal touch.
Book Bank, 13002 Seminole Blvd., moved across Seminole Boulevard to the Piccadilly Square shopping plaza after operating for 19 years in Largo Mall.
Amy Schmaedeke (pronounced SHMEH-deh-keh), who has owned the bookstore since 1998, said rent had risen too steeply in the Largo Mall shopping center. While moving across the street meant downsizing, the new location benefits customers by remaining nearby and allowing the store to specialize in its selection, she said.
"We wanted to stay really close by because we have a huge following of regular customers," Schmaedeke said.
New and used books line the walls of the shop, dotted with round stickers that indicate the used books' publication dates. On shelves of romance, science fiction and mystery novels, Book Bank includes recommendation lists: culinary crimes, dynamic duos or time travel.
Now that the store is smaller, Schmaedeke keeps a closer eye on what customers are reading, she said.
"We've scaled down, but we're more efficient because we don't keep books that are not wanted," Schmaedeke said.
Myrna Adams of Seminole, who has been shopping at Book Bank for about a year, said she prefers Book Bank's small size to corporate giants such as Barnes & Noble.
"Sometimes in larger bookstores, you can get delirious just looking," she said. "If they have a sharp eye and have some good topics, it makes it easy to shop."
Among some of the books in demand: supernatural fiction, said Robin Elder, who has worked at Book Bank for nearly 10 years. Especially Twilight, a young adult series about vampires by Stephenie Meyer.
"People started asking for Stephenie Meyer, and I had never heard of her," Elder said. "It took off from there, and it hasn't abated at all."
Schmaedeke also tries to stock books on the reading lists at local schools. She depends on parents to provide her with the schools' reading lists.
But meeting customers' needs isn't all about the selection of books, Schmaedeke said. The store tries to offer low prices — including a bargain room that touts 70-cent novels — and store credit through trading used books.
Angel Gianopulos of Seminole has been a customer at Book Bank since it opened in 1992. Twice a month, she brings in 25 to 30 used books to trade in for store credit, she said.
"Almost every time I go, I have a bag; and anything I've purchased that I don't want to keep, I go ahead and take that in," Gianopulos said. "It's so much more cost-effective."
Schmaedeke hopes that by offering services large chains don't provide, Book Bank can stay open in an economy that has been tough on independent bookstores.
According to an August study on the book industry by the Association of American Publishers, both chains and independent retail bookstores experienced losses in revenue over the past three years. In the same time period, online net sales revenue increased more than 55 percent.
"A lot of kids and people these days don't read books like they used to," Schmaedeke said.
Although it might be easy for people to find cheap books online or in chain bookstores, Schmaedeke said her longtime customers prefer the community aspect of an independent bookstore. Often, customers like to chat about their personal lives when they visit the store, she said.
"People like to come back to someplace that feels like home," she said. "They know us."
Katie Park can be reached at (727) 445-4154 or [email protected]


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Adamek vs Cunningham II was a RAZOR CLOSE drawish kind of fight.
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Originally Posted by
BRITISH LlON
seriously, what is it about? Cunningham is in a razor close fight and doesn't get the decision and everybody cries robbery cause he didn't get the decision on american soil?
If Cunningham vs Adamek II was a "big robbery", then Mayweather vs Cotto was a HIGHWAY robbery
Mayweather vs Cotto a highway robbery? man just go away.
Kevin Iole, Yahoo! Sports: 115-113 Mayweather
Jake Emen, ProBoxing-Fans.com: 115-113 Mayweather
John Chavez, Boxing Truth: 115-113 Mayweather
Kevin Mitchell, The Guardian (UK): 116-113 Mayweather
Steve Lillis, BoxNation: 116-112 Mayweather
Steve Bunce, BBC: 116-112 Mayweather
Cameron Sharpe, Boxing Fancast: 116-112 Mayweather
David Coldwell, boxing trainer: 116-112 Mayweather
Max Kellerman, HBO: 116-112 Mayweather
Dan Rafael, ESPN: 116-112 Mayweather
Doug Fischer, Ring Magazine: 116-112 Mayweather
Chris Manix, Sports Illustrated: 116-112 Mayweather
Brian Arman Graham, Sports Illustrated: 116-112 Mayweather
Associated Press: 116-112 Mayweather
Kieran Mulvaney, ESPN/Reuters: 116-112 Mayweather
Steve Kim, MaxBoxing.com: 116-112 Mayweather
Mike Sloan, SecondsOut.com: 116-112 Mayweather
Tom Gray, SecondsOut.com: 117-111 Mayweather
John Raspanti, DogHouseBoxing.com: 117-111 Mayweather
Tim Smith, New York Daily News: 117-111 Mayweather
Harold Lederman, HBO: 117-111 Mayweather
Robert Morales, Los Angeles Daily News: 117-111 Mayweather
TheSweetScience.com: 117-111 Mayweather
Paddy Cronan, OnTheGrind Boxing Radio: 117-111 Mayweather
***************.com: 117-111 Mayweather
Eric Raskin, Ring Magazine/TheSweetScience.com: 118-110 Mayweather
Ben Thompson, FightHype.com: 118-110 Mayweather
World Boxing News: 118-110 Mayweather
Suge Green, On The Grind Boxing Radio: 114-114 Draw
Lance Pugmire, Los Angeles Times: 115-113 Cotto
Highway robery yet virtually everybody had Floyd winning it lol.
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REDMOND, Wash., Jan. 21, 2003 -- Microsoft Corp. today announced it has entered into an agreement to acquire PlaceWare Inc., a leading provider of Web conferencing services that enable businesses to conduct real-time, interactive presentations and meetings over the Internet. By combining key assets and working in tandem, the two companies aim to provide customers with innovative and easy-to-use online conferencing solutions that will help connect more people seamlessly in a real-time conferencing environment. Microsoft also hopes to provide industry partners with improved technologies they can use to develop and deliver new custom business solutions that take advantage of advanced real-time collaboration capabilities. As PlaceWare is a privately held company, terms of the agreement were not disclosed.
"This acquisition complements our business and is an important step forward in our strategy to expand our information worker solutions base," said Jeff Raikes, group vice president of Productivity and Business Services at Microsoft. "PlaceWare is a solid company and, with CEO George Garrick's leadership, has built a strong Web conferencing business. We look forward to merging our strengths to effectively deliver new real-time collaboration capabilities and solutions for this emerging and expanding online conferencing market."
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