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Premium-quality micrograin carbide tips are ground on specialized CNC equipment for an extra-fine finish with maximum sharpness and edge retention. Convex edging bit creates attractive decorative edging and grooving that gives a unique finish to the work piece. The fully hardened and tempered steel shank provides ultimate durability.
- Used to create a shallow bullnose
- Cutters above and below bit creates a top and bottom fillet on thicker stock
- Smoothly radiused edge requires little or no sanding before applying finish
- Micrograin carbide tips provide superior wear resistance and long life
- Recommended for use with router table
|Bit Length
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|Shank Diameter
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|.19 Lbs
|Typical Application
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CHRISTMAS FAIR: Mowden Infant School will host a Christmas fair on Saturday, December 1, between 1pm and 3pm. The event will include a number of Christmas stalls, crafts for children, refreshments and a chance to meet Santa.
FLORAL MEETING: The next meeting of Darlington Flower Club will be held on Wednesday, December 5, at 2 pm in St Cuthbert's Church Centre, in Market Place, Darlington. There will be a practice, including an open and novice, with the title Christmas Fairy Tales and a Christmas competition called Opalescence followed by a faith tea. More details are available on 01325-352889.
FRONT MEETING: The Friends of the Front, at Middleton One Row, will meet on Friday, November 30, to do some recovery work on the seating area at the east end of the row. Volunteers should meet at the bus shelter at 9.30am and wear appropriate footwear and clothing and bring garden tools.
FESTIVE FUN: Willow Road Community Centre, Willow Road, Darlington, will host a Christmas fair on Saturday, December 1, between 2pm and 4pm. The fair will include a raffle, tombola, books, bric-a-brac, home produce, cakes and refreshments. Proceeds will go towards church funds.

subset: commoncrawl


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Gerhard Neumaier, co-founder of E&E, dies
Gerhard J. Neumaier, a co-founder of Lancaster-based firm Ecology & Environment, died Wednesday, the company said.
"He will be remembered as a visionary who played a pivotal role in E&E's growth from a small, local firm to a successful global environmental consulting company," the company said. "We cannot and will not forget the vision Gerhard provided to this company from its inception."
Neumaier helped launch the company in 1970. In August, he was removed as chairman amid a shakeup of E&E's management team. He resigned from the company's board of directors last month.


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This group of singers looks more like four suburban housewives than Four Bitchin' Babes, but hey, if they want to think of themselves as steamy and unconventional, who's it going to hurt? They'll still give a good show at the Broward Center this weekend.
Sally Fingerett, the only remaining member of the original group, also serves as spokesperson, granting interviews just days after her second wedding ceremony, which joined two adults and three teenagers. If nothing else, the woman is brave.
She and her cohorts sing about what they know, trying to find the humor in their lives through music. "We are all moms, we are all wives, some of us were ex-wives, and now I'm a wife again," she explains. Since they live in four separate cities, they don't get much practice time, but they're able to pull it off, harmonizing behind one another as they take turns soloing during the show. "When we get together, it's pretty much a pajama party on stage," Fingerett says. "It's a musical revue, life according to Four Bitchin' Babes. We do our own hair and makeup." As far as she's concerned, they get to hang out, talk trash, and get paid for it.
Four Bitchin' Babes
Broward Center for the Performing Arts, 201 SW Fifth Ave., Fort Lauderdale
Perform at 8 p.m. Sunday, February 9. Tickets are $25. Call 954-462-0222.
Songs range from satires to ballads, some with a country or folksy twang. The dichotomy lies between what they see in the mirror and who they really are. With song topics ranging from ditties about men who do dishes to having compassion for gays and lesbians, they hardly qualify as progressive. The material, frankly, is dated, without the added dimension of being retro. Or maybe that is the fun of it. Penning and performing songs using words like groovy and getting pissed off about being called "honey" in 2003 and seeing yourself as a groundbreaker does have its charm. Fingerett uses the term "cutting-edge." It's hard not to smile.
Audiences seem to respond to them, at least according to Fingerett. "When women leave a Babes show, they feel that they've just had lunch with their girlfriends. For the men, they feel that they've had a peek at their wives in the kitchen when they couldn't get up from football." They'll let us peek on Sunday night.
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Member, Center for the Prevention of Preterm Birth
Assistant Professor, UC Department of Pediatrics
Phone 513-803-8039
Email firstname.lastname@example.com
Dr. Bhattacharyya received his doctoral degree in immunology and cell biology from Jadavpur University, India. His doctoral research shed light on multi-level regulation of host immune responses in experimental visceral leishmaniasis. During his post-doctoral training at the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill, Dr. Bhattacharyya explored critical roles of Interleukin-10 for regulation of nuclear factor kappa B signaling pathway in dendritic cells. Later, at Washington University, St Louis and Vanderbilt University, Nashville, Dr. Bhattacharyya uncovered new mechanisms for glucocorticoid actions on Toll-like receptor-induced inflammatory pathways. His findings provided evidence for signal-dependent glucocorticoid sensitivity. Dr. Bhattacharyya's study indicated that the spectrum of TLRs activated determines their responsiveness to steroid therapy.
Dr. Bhattacharyya was selected for the Ramanujan Fellowship, 2011, awarded by the Department of Science and Technology, Government of India.
BSc: Chemistry, University of Calcutta, Calcutta, India.
MSc: Biochemistry, University of Calcutta, Calcutta, India.
PhD: Cell Biology and Immunology, Jadavpur University, Calcutta, India.
Post Doctoral Fellowship: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill, NC.
Senior Scientist: Washington University, Saint Louis, MO / Vanderbilt University, Nashville, TN.
Ratajczak C.K., Asada M, Allen, G.C., McMahon, D.G., Muglia, L.M., Smith, D., Bhattacharyya, S., and Muglia, L.J. Generation of myometrium-specific Bmal1 knockout mice for parturition analysis. Reproduction, Fertility and Development. 2012;24(5):759-67.
Bhattacharyya S, Kay T, Zhao Z, Muglia LJ. Glucocorticoids Target suppressor of cytokine synthesis 1 (SOCS1) and Type 1 Interferons to Regulate Toll-like Receptor-induced STAT1 Activation. Proc Natl Acad Sci USA. 2011;108(23):9554-9559.
Bhattacharyya, S, Ratajczak CK, Vogt SE, Kelley C, Colonna M, Schreiber RD. Muglia, LJ. TAK1 Targeting by Glucocorticoids Determines JNK and IkB Regulation in Toll-like Receptor-Stimulated Macrophages. Blood. 2010;115(10):1921-1931.
Kim HJ, Zhao H, Kitaura H, Bhattacharyya S, Brewer JA, Muglia LJ, Ross FP, Teitelbaum SL. Glucocorticoids and the osteoclast. Ann N Y Acad Sci. 2007;1116:335-339.
Bhattacharyya S, Brown DE, Brewer JA, Vogt SE, Muglia LJ. Glucocorticoid receptor regulates toll-like receptor-4 mediated inflammatory responses by inhibition of p38 MAP kinase. Blood. 2007;109(10):4313-4319.
Kim HJ, Zhao H, Kitaura H, Bhattacharyya S, Brewer JA, Muglia LJ, Ross FP, Teitelbaum SL. Glucocorticoids suppress bone formation via the osteoclast. J Clin Invest. 2006;116(8):2152-2160.
Bhattacharyya S, Sen P, Wallet M, Long B, Baldwin AS Jr., Tisch R. Immunoregulation of dendritic cells by IL-10 is mediated through suppression of the PI3K/Akt pathway and of IkappaB kinase activity. Blood. 2004;104(4):1100-1109.
Sen P, Bhattacharyya S, Wallet M, Wong CP, Poligone B, Sen M, Baldwin AS, Jr., Tisch, R. NF-kappa B hyperactivation has differential effects on the APC function of nonobese diabetic mouse macrophages. J Immunol. 2003;170(4):1770-1780.
Bhattacharyya S, Ghosh S, Dasgupta B, Mazumder D, Roy S, Majumdar S. Chemokine-induced leishmanicidal activity in murine macrophages via the generation of nitric oxide. J Infect Dis. 2002;185(12):1704-1708.
Bhattacharyya S, Ghosh S, Jhonson PL, Bhattacharya SK, and Majumdar S. Immunomodulatory role of interleukin-10 in visceral leishmaniasis: defective activation of protein kinase C-mediated signal transduction events. Infect Immun. 2001;69(3):1499-1507.
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Edit Article
wikiHow to Survive the Steelyard in Fallout 3
What waits for you in the Steelyard? Super Mutants? Raiders? No, just an army of Trogs. Surviving a run through the Steelyard is not pleasant, but it is possible. Read on to learn how.
1Talk to Marco before you go. He will give you an auto axe, which will make a huge difference against the Trogs.
2Go to the Steelyard. Talk to the foreman about the steel ingots.
3Enter the Steelyard. As soon as you enter, go for the AK-47 dropped near the dead slave.
4Slowly progress through the Steelyard. Wait for Trogs to come to you, then kill them.
5Pick up steel ingots when you find them. They are located all over, so you should have no problem finding them.
6Navigate your way through. Make mental notes of your surrounding and landmarks. Use them to find your way out.
7Go back to the Mill once you have collected enough steel ingots. Give them to the foreman and leave.
Community Q&A
Ask a Question
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If this question (or a similar one) is answered twice in this section, please click here to let us know.
- Wait every time you clear an area so you have an auto-save.
- If you have a Science skill over 50, you can activate the Steelyard Protectrons to eliminate Trogs.
- If you get lost, climb up a building to get a bird's eye view.
- Repair your slave rags with those of dead slaves throughout the Steelyard.
- Don't approach the Wild men without a gun.
- Don't panic when attacked by more than one Trog. Just kill the strongest, then worry about the rest.


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4 people missing in Colo. wildfire
BOULDER— Four residents of an area burned by a wildfire near Boulder remain missing.
Authorities said earlier today that eight people were unaccounted for. Since then one more person was reported missing and a total of five have been accounted for.
Some residents have refused to leave the area and stayed behind, risking their lives to try to save their homes. Authorities have been following up with family members and checking homes in the area to find the missing.
The fire is burning on 6,388 acres, just under 10 square miles. Some rain began to fall on the area as authorities gave their afternoon briefing.
Crews attacked the blaze from the air and on the ground but officials say they still don't have control of the fire.


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Texas basketball: 5 thoughts from the Longhorns' last-second win over Arizona State
1. Longhorns endure late-game charge: Texas led by 14 mid-way through the second half. With less than a minute remaining that lead had diluted into a one-point deficit. That's when Jonathan Holmes grabbed the second-biggest rebound of the game. Javan Felix launched a three from the corner that fell woefully short, but Holmes battled for position under the hoop and grabbed the rebound. Then, while falling down, he threw the ball into the basket, earning an and-one opportunity in the process. Holmes calmly knocked down the ensuing free throw, and gave Texas an 85-83 lead. The Sun Devils knocked down two free throws on the other end of the court, setting up the final possession. Holmes, the earlier hero, took a three with the clock winding down that missed everything. But Cameron Ridley was there to save Texas' season. The sophomore center grabbed the ball and muscled up the game-winning shot right before the clock expired. It wasn't the prettiest buzzer-beater you'll ever see, but it was enough to send Texas to the second round of the tournament for the first time since the 2010-11 season.
2. The evolution of Ridley: Kenny Smith said it best after the game, "last year Cameron Ridley would not have been able to make that play." It's true too. The sophomore center is a completely different player than he was at this point last season, and it was never more evident than against Arizona State. Ridley's 17 points and 12 rebounds are telling stats, but neither is more so than his 30 minutes on the floor - third-most on the team. Last year Ridley averaged just 16.4 minutes per game. At 280 pounds he was a pudgy freshman who liked home cooking a bit too much. Now, after a long offseason of hard work Ridley is still 280 pounds. But much of that fat has transformed to muscle, allowing him to play longer minutes. All that work paid off as Ridley made the biggest play of the game in the final seconds.
3. Texas' depth pays forward: Arizona State has a normally short bench, and it shrunk even more in the NCAA tournament. The Longhorns came at Arizona State in waves, rotating through nine players, all of which contributed in some fashion. The Sun Devils played seven players - and four of them accounted for 76 of their 85 points. Leaning on the players that got you there is a great formula for tournament play, but Texas' energy was evident near the end of the game on the offensive glass. The depth should also pay forward for the Longhorns as they move though the tournament, starting with Michigan on Saturday.
4. Martez Walker comes up huge: Texas has searched for reliable guard off the bench the entire season, and Martez Walker firmly established himself as that guy Thursday night. The freshman, whose shot can only be described as unconventional, notched a career-high 16 points and three rebounds in 22 minutes of action. Walker provided a much needed spark for the Longhorns. His ability to shoot stretched the floor allowing Texas' bigs to gain position inside, and his defense was key on Jermaine Marshall. Walker has reached double-digits in three of the Longhorns' last four games; it's a streak you can expect to continue as Barnes gives the freshman more and more responsibility.
5. Michigan looms ahead: The win over Arizona State sets up a matchup with No. 2 seed Michigan on Saturday, which could prove to be a rather intriguing contest. Texas has the advantage inside with its large front line, especially with the Wolverines being without the services of Mitch McGary. Both teams feature excellent freshman point guards, but Michigan does have an advantage in the backcourt. The game could come down to Texas' best defender, Demarcus Holland, chasing Big 10 Player of the Year Nick Stauskas around the perimeter.


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Ohio Republican Senate Seat in Jeopardy
[Sorry, the video for this story has expired, but you can still read the transcript below. ]
JIM LEHRER: Gwen Ifill has our Ohio report.
SEN. MIKE DEWINE (R), Ohio: How are you? OK, what did you have, a little sauerkraut there or…
OHIO RESIDENT: Sauerkraut Sunday.
SEN. MIKE DEWINE: Sauerkraut Sunday?
GWEN IFILL: In any other election year, Republican Senator Mike DeWine would not have to be hunting for votes at the Waynesville, Ohio, Sauerkraut Festival.
OHIO RESIDENT: Potatoes, sauerkraut, olives, cheddar cheese…
SEN. MIKE DEWINE: Good to see you. Thank you for inviting me.
GWEN IFILL: But this is no ordinary year for DeWine or for Ohio. Corruption scandals, a depressed state economy, a divided Republican Party all have combined to cast significant storm clouds over DeWine's political future.
So why is this race so close?
SEN. MIKE DEWINE: The race is close because Ohio's a competitive state. I mean, look at the last couple of presidential campaigns. We were a state that for years elected John Glenn, Howard Metzenbaum at the same time we were voting for a Republican presidents and sometimes Republican governors. When I was elected, I was the first Republican to be elected to the Senate in a quarter of a century. So it's a competitive state.
GWEN IFILL: But it wasn't so hard for you last time.
SEN. MIKE DEWINE: No, but obviously we have different situations today. You know, we've had scandals in the statehouse in Washington or in the statehouse in Columbus, and that's been a problem. The president's popularity is certainly not what it was. The Republican governor's popularity is not where it should be. So there are issues there.
Brown targets disillusioned
GWEN IFILL: Those issues have made DeWine a ripe target this election season. And the man holding the bow and arrow is Democratic Congressman Sherrod Brown, running hard to take down the incumbent. Brown is hammering home a liberal message aimed at union members, disaffected independents, and even disillusioned Republicans.
REP. SHERROD BROWN (D), Senate Candidate: Conservatives understand that Mike DeWine and others in Washington have betrayed conservative principles. They've taken budget surpluses as far as the eye can see and blown a hole in the federal budget. And conservatives understand that these people haven't delivered for them, and they're willing to give progressives like me a chance to help change the direction of this state and this country.
GWEN IFILL: Gene Beaupre, a political scientist at Cincinnati's Xavier University, says these issues work against DeWine.
GENE BEAUPRE, Xavier University: Not any one of those things is the death blow, but all of them are certainly body blows that make this, you know, a race where both sides -- or a state where, you know, there can be competitive races.
GWEN IFILL: To survive, DeWine is counting on his most loyal supporters to stick with him in this, his toughest race ever.
So how does this race look like so far?
BOB ASHBROOK, Ohio Resident: Well, it's going to be really tight, but of course I'm pulling for DeWine.
GWEN IFILL: Why?
BOB ASHBROOK: Well, I think DeWine is really a good family man. I think he really, really has feelings for the people that he serves.
Moderate Republicans may stay home
GWEN IFILL: Yet three separate voter surveys released this week show Brown surging ahead by seven to 14 points. For Republicans in Ohio, statewide races are won and lost from here in Columbus south to the Kentucky border, but this year not all Republicans can agree on how to win.
One example: Columbus attorney Charles "Rocky" Saxbe, the prominent son of a former attorney general and a former state legislator himself. Although a diehard Republican and DeWine supporter, he's jumped ship on the governor's race to back Democrat Ted Strickland. He says Ken Blackwell, his party's choice for governor, is so conservative that his campaign is hurting DeWine, who has earned a reputation in Washington as someone who will work across party lines.
ROCKY SAXBE, Columbus Attorney: That is unfortunate that a person who understands the importance of consensus, of working with Democrats as well as with the Republican majority in the Senate, is going to be handicapped by his own party because he isn't too blue or too red or whatever color you want to choose.
OHIO RESIDENT: Are you a Christian?
SEN. MIKE DEWINE: Oh, yes. Oh, yes.
OHIO RESIDENT: Do you have Jesus in your heart?
SEN. MIKE DEWINE: Yes.
OHIO RESIDENT: Good.
GWEN IFILL: The difficult political climate in a state that went for President Bush in 2000 and 2004 has spread to endanger congressional incumbents like Deborah Pryce, whose opponent, Mary Jo Kilroy, has called the contest "a knife fight." Saxbe says some ticket-splitting moderate Republicans may just stay home.
ROCKY SAXBE: I'm going to be a Republican after November 7th no matter what they say, but I may be the exception to that rule. I may be willing to maintain my loyalty to the party, but others who are being disenfranchised may not do that.
GWEN IFILL: And that could cost you.
ROCKY SAXBE: And that could cost Mike DeWine votes, Deb Pryce votes, and I'm hoping that's not the case. And I'm doing everything I can to help them and other Republican candidates.
GWEN IFILL: Another problem for Republicans: nearly two-thirds of Ohio voters say the state's economy is bad. Ohio, in fact, has lost 195,000 manufacturing jobs in the last five years. Keith Welsh, a Republican father of three, says this is why he may not support DeWine this time.
KEITH WELSH, Ohio Resident: You know, I worked at the Delphi plants. I've worked at the General Motors plants. And there's, you know, been a lot of jobs cuts, a lot of jobs lost to foreign countries, so -- and not a whole lot of job creation. You know, you've got to blame somebody, so you either blame the governor or you blame the senators. You've got to take a look at what he's going to hold for the future of Ohio.
Frustrations of the middle class
REP. STEPHANIE TUBBS JONES (D), Ohio: How are you?
GWEN IFILL: Democratic Congresswoman Stephanie Tubbs Jones says voters are paying attention to corruption scandals involving Washington lobbyist Jack Abramoff, convicted Congressman Bob Ney, Ohio Governor Bob Taft, and disgraced Florida Congressman Mark Foley, all Republicans.
REP. STEPHANIE TUBBS JONES: That's a cumulative effect. You know, you have Abramoff, you have Bob Ney, you have a governor who has been convicted of misdemeanors, you have the investment of workers compensation dollars in rare coins. And you add to that a member of Congress, Republican, who has been engaged allegedly in sending e-mails to young pages, so that's a cumulative effect that I think it has an impact.
Enough is enough! Can you say it with me? Enough is enough!
GWEN IFILL: Sherrod Brown is counting on Democrats like these, the kind who turn up at pancake breakfasts on Sunday mornings, to rally the faithful and, more important, to turn out the vote on Election Day.
REP. SHERROD BROWN: As Ohio goes in 2006, so goes the nation in 2008.
GWEN IFILL: But it is the here and now that seems to consume voters across party lines. Margaret Wienholts is a Democrat from Cincinnati.
MARGARET WIENHOLTS, Ohio Resident: I'm very unhappy. Everyday, you know, you listen on the news and they said "violence is escalating"? Well, hello? It's been that, you know? And they need to really change it.
GWEN IFILL: John and Connie Hanna are Republicans from Hillsboro.
JOHN HANNA, Ohio Resident: There seems to be a genuine lack of respect for some people in Middle America, for the people who are, you know, the middle class of the country. The politicians seem genuinely more concerned with maintaining power than doing what's right for the nation and for the citizens.
DONNIE HANNA, Ohio Resident: I agree. I think we're looking for a change, and part of that change may be that some Republicans that have been there in the Senate for years are not going to be going back, because right now we're very frustrated.
GWEN IFILL: Brown's goal: to tap into those frustrations.
ALI KINNEY, Ohio Resident: I'm no one but a voter. And I am your typical middle class -- my husband and I both work. We cannot afford to put our middle child through college.
We need to do something about that. We need to give college credits to the working-class family.
Finishing the race
GWEN IFILL: If DeWine's campaign has the feel of an incumbent stroll, Brown's more closely resembles an eager sprint.
So this is a "throw the bums out" kind of year?
REP. SHERROD BROWN: I think it's a "throw the bums out" kind of year, because of the arrogance of power, because of one-party government, and because this crowd in Washington, Mike DeWine and others, and this crowd in Columbus have betrayed middle-class Ohioans.
GWEN IFILL: DeWine is well-aware that some national Republicans appear to have already written him off.
Can you win this without their support?
SEN. MIKE DEWINE: We're going to win. We're going to win the race, because Ohioans understand what's at stake. They understand what I've done. And I think they also understand that Congressman Brown, with all due respect, is on the fringe even of his own party.
GWEN IFILL: So it's about defining Sherrod Brown, not selling Mike DeWine?
SEN. MIKE DEWINE: Oh, I think it's a little of both. It's always a little of both.
GWEN IFILL: Brown once wrote that Democrats lost the House majority in 1994 because "we were blamed for everything the voters did not like." DeWine is working to make sure history does not flip parties and repeat itself.


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|View Poll Results: Which one of the three handguns would you pick for concealed carry?
|S&W .357 Model 627 V-Comp
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|April 10, 2014, 10:31 PM
Senior Member
Join Date: May 1, 2001
Posts: 9,587
I guess Im one of the lucky ones, as my everyday attire is pretty casual, Carhartts/Dickies, tee shirts with an untucked oxford shirts in the summer, fleece or sweatshirt in the winter.
I suppose having two sets of trousers is a personal choice. I prefer to wear my normal size, and while initially snug when you put the holster in, they quickly stretch to a perfect point, where they hold the gun and holster more securely, with no shifting around. They also look like they fit. The waist isnt the only thing "bigger" when you start going up in waist sizes. Bigger clothes look out of place and look like they dont fit.
I personally think anyone can do pretty much anything, if they "want" to do it. This really is all about "want" more than it is "cant". Im not big, nor do I wear over sized clothes, all my shirts, trousers, jackets, etc, are my normal size, and I dont dress out of line for my job or lifestyle, even as it might have changed over the years. Ive never had any troubles doing it. Then again, I want to do it. Im sure if I can do it, anyone else could, if they "wanted" to. "Trouble" I suppose, is something else that falls under perception.
All Im getting at here is, the OP seems to want to carry a full sized gun, for whatever his reasons are, and thats cool, if thats what he wants. He seems to have the "want" part figured out, so why tell him he "cant", because you choose to follow that line of thinking?
This "cant" thing seems to be something that intertwines its way through many of the threads anymore. It seems more of the various "problems" this or that gun has, is because someone "cant" deal with something about it they havent worked out. The trigger is bad, the grip angle is wrong, its to big, its to small, etc, etc. Henry Ford was right.
"If the rule you followed brought you to this,
of what use was the rule?"
"The enemy is anybody who's going to get you killed, no matter which side he is on." - Joseph Heller
|April 10, 2014, 11:33 PM
Senior Member
Join Date: December 10, 2013
Location: Pahrump Nv USA
Posts: 480
I would also like to see a none of the above as a choice.
My edc is a Ruger SR9C, but it also has been a Glock 27, a Ruger SP101, and a S$W 38 bodyguard.
|April 11, 2014, 05:47 AM
Senior Member
Join Date: November 26, 2006
Posts: 1,084
Of the three pistols presented I'd go with the 627. (minus the comp)
It would be the most accurate of the bunch and able to shoot a wide variety of ammo types and bullet shapes. I like the adjustable sights so the bullet goes where you aim.
For me the grip of a gun is the biggest obstacle to concealing. With the Smith there is a huge array of options to maximize both concealability and shootability.
.44 Special: For those who get it, no explanation is necessary. For those who don't, no explanation is possible.
|April 11, 2014, 08:38 AM
Senior Member
Join Date: October 4, 2007
Location: All the way to NEBRASKA
Posts: 8,113
TheGolden Rule of Tool Use: "If you don't know what you are doing, DON'T."
|April 11, 2014, 09:07 AM
Senior Member
Join Date: May 1, 2001
Posts: 9,587
I carried GM's and Commanders IWB on a 1.75" belt, (as well as a double reload OWB), for about 25 years. I also carried either a PPK or P230, or a J frame as a BUG, at the same time. I didnt find them heavy or a problem.
Ive carried High Powers, SIG P220's, P226's and P229's, as well as Glocks 17's and 31's in the same manner. These days, a 26 replaces the other "smaller" guns, in the BU role.
If you wear the gun in a proper holster, in that nook under your rib cage at 4:30 or so, the gun just disappears under anything hanging over it, even a light oxford shirt or a tee shirt for that matter.
As far as printing goes, pretty much "everything" prints, if you dont dress right and dont follow a few basic carrying rules as far as movement goes.
The times Ive IWB carried a K or N frame revolver, I used a "pancake" type OWB holster with "pull the dot" loop straps attached to the outer edges of the holster, so the cylinder was just above the belt line. They are much more comfortable carrying that way. I did that out of need when I was doing it, as we didnt have much choice back then. Holster choices then were nothing like they are now. Even now, with fewer people carrying revolvers, especially full size guns, there isnt much demand on the holster makers to pursue it.
Auto holsters are a totally different story. If you cant find a good holster to hide pretty much anything these days, you didnt look very hard.
"If the rule you followed brought you to this,
of what use was the rule?"
"The enemy is anybody who's going to get you killed, no matter which side he is on." - Joseph Heller
|April 11, 2014, 09:21 AM
Senior Member
Join Date: February 27, 2008
Location: midwest
Posts: 4,101
Same ? with a rail.
And a FN45 is an overly large gun.
rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6
|April 11, 2014, 10:25 AM
Senior Member
Join Date: May 1, 2001
Posts: 9,587
Whos to say he doesnt have something to attach to it? And really, why should it matter, if its what he wants to carry?
Many handguns come with a rail these days, whether you like it or not. Im not really big on them on some guns, but they are handy, and you never know when you might find need for one.
These both come off, and the gun goes in my holster, with the threaded barrel, with no trouble at all. With the light and suppressor off the gun, its only slightly longer than my other 17's, and really no bother. It fits all my holsters without issue, and it doesnt poke me when I carry it.
A ruler pocket on a pair of Carhartts holds the suppressor like it was made for it.
"If the rule you followed brought you to this,
of what use was the rule?"
"The enemy is anybody who's going to get you killed, no matter which side he is on." - Joseph Heller
|April 11, 2014, 11:50 AM
Senior Member
Join Date: February 27, 2008
Location: midwest
Posts: 4,101
rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6
|April 11, 2014, 12:05 PM
Senior Member
Join Date: February 10, 2013
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 494
If ya gonna carry big, might as well carry in style.. that is why I picked the S&W 627 from your list
But, I agree with a poster above.. I would opt for the non V-Comp model. The V-Comp's compensator is not needed on a carry piece and the "tuning" can be acheived for a lot less then the V-Comp's premium dicatates.
One of these...
Or, if you wanted something smaller for the carry aspect... one of these..
You know you want the Revolver.. you know deep down you do ....
|April 11, 2014, 12:08 PM
Senior Member
Join Date: May 1, 2001
Posts: 9,587
The threaded barrel and rail really add nothing to the overall size of the gun, and again, if they are to be utilized, then they are deemed as needed, wouldnt you say?
I dont remember anyone saying they werent going to be used, and just for looks either.
All you said about the FN was its "overly large". Why? Have you ever carried one concealed? How about the P226 or the S&W?
"If the rule you followed brought you to this,
of what use was the rule?"
"The enemy is anybody who's going to get you killed, no matter which side he is on." - Joseph Heller
|April 11, 2014, 01:21 PM
Senior Member
Join Date: February 20, 1999
Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country)
Posts: 14,270
I wear guns
So I own numerous belts and pants of various sizing, based on my wish/desire/want to wear some of the bigger guns I own.
I own numerous covering garments of various sizing and style for the same reason.
I own numerous fanny packs of various sizing to accomodate the different sizes of guns I own.
I own and wear guns sized from my 22LR NAA Mini to my 7.5" 357 Magnum Redhawk.
"all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"
Last edited by WESHOOT2; April 11, 2014 at 01:21 PM. Reason: oh yes I do
|April 11, 2014, 01:34 PM
Senior Member
Join Date: February 27, 2008
Location: midwest
Posts: 4,101
rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6
|April 11, 2014, 02:33 PM
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Join Date: May 1, 2001
Posts: 9,587
The 26 fills the back up role, and very nicely, the 17 fills the main gun role very nicely. I have no trouble what so ever carrying both, most all the time, so whats the problem? Oh, wait, its not my problem.
I fully understand that some people dont "want" to carry a full size gun, I get that. That isnt really an issue here though, is it? The OP asked about three specific, "full" sized guns. If he wanted smaller, I would think he'd have asked.
I dont care what you choose to carry, Im not telling you what to carry, carry whatever you feel works best for you, just dont try and tell us, that others cant carry what you choose not to, because you think its to big. Thats all Im saying.
To say it wont work because you dont have the right holster, doenst make it wrong. Just that you have the wrong holster.
"If the rule you followed brought you to this,
of what use was the rule?"
"The enemy is anybody who's going to get you killed, no matter which side he is on." - Joseph Heller
|April 11, 2014, 02:48 PM
Senior Member
Join Date: February 27, 2008
Location: midwest
Posts: 4,101
For the record I voted in the poll
rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6
|April 11, 2014, 03:03 PM
Senior Member
Join Date: May 1, 2001
Posts: 9,587
"If the rule you followed brought you to this,
of what use was the rule?"
"The enemy is anybody who's going to get you killed, no matter which side he is on." - Joseph Heller
|April 11, 2014, 03:12 PM
Senior Member
Join Date: August 30, 2009
Location: Northern AZ
Posts: 7,172
None of them. They're all "clunks" as far as CCW is concerned (at least my definition of CCW).
The whole idea of CCW (to me, anyway) is discreet carry with little or no evidence that you are doing so, and as little weight as possible. YMMV
If I were to carry any one of OP's 3 choices it woud be open carry.
My choice of concealed carry for the last 40+ years has been an FN/Browning 1910 .380.
|April 11, 2014, 03:41 PM
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Join Date: June 9, 2002
Location: northern CA for a little while longer
Posts: 1,723
You actually own, or plan to own, any of those specific 3 pistols? Plan to lawfully carry it concealed?
Or are you just looking for really cool-looking "tactical" pistols and wonder what everyone else thinks about them?
If your poll had include a None-of-the-Above option, that's how I'd have voted. More on what I did "pick" in a moment ...
I've carried all manner/size of concealed handguns over the course of having carried one with a badge for more than 30 years. At one time or another I've concealed revolvers with 5 1/2", 6 1/2" & 7 1/2" inch barrels, so it's not like I haven't spent some time figuring out how to adjust manner of dress to accommodate doing so.
However, since I don't have to do so anymore, the largest handgun I'll typically carry nowadays ... if I feel my activities merit it ... is one of my 5" 1911's, 4.5" M&P 45 or P90DC or my 4.1" SW9940. My 5 1/2" Redhawk and 6 1/2" 629 Classic only see range use anymore. I usually prefer retirement handguns with 3 1/2" or shorter barrels. Sometimes a 3.75" 4513TSW.
I have ZERO interest in any pistol with a threaded muzzle. My life doesn't include any possible provision for needing to lawfully suppress my retirement handguns.
Okay ... I was conflicted about choosing between the 627 and the SIG.
I like revolvers, even as a longtime 1911 shooter ... and even though having carried a TDA issued weapon for more than 20 years ... and even though having been a firearms instructor and armorer for a number of different guns. The idea of a lightweight 8-shot .357 Magnum revolver is appealing to me. Not as a CCW weapon, but I'd not mind carrying one if I had to return to active duty and carry a uniform belt gun.
On the other hand, I have an affinity for 9mm, as well, and the SIG is a reasonably reliable and durable service-type pistol. Sufficient lubrication and attention to various periodic spring replacement aren't difficult things to handle, especially if being supported by an armorer. Having been through the SIG pistol armorer class for their Classic pistols, the TDA version of the standard SIG ... even gussied up in the listed model ... would seem an acceptable choice (sans the threaded barrel).
I opted for SIG for the purpose of your poll ... but if I were going to actually spend my own money on one or the other, it would be the 627, hands down. I have enough 9's to meet any of my retirement CCW needs, and adding another .357 Magnum revolver to my collection would be more interesting.
Why not the FN? While I've no doubt they did ma lot of testing during R&D when they were creating it for the canceled military pistol program back in '05, I've yet to hear much about any extended LE/Gov testing of the gun ... yet. I'd prefer to see how well it does in the hands of a wide range of LE test shooters before I spent my own money on one. I've long since lost any desire to be a Beta Tester again.
Also, that model does have the raised sights which would annoy me, and then there's the holster issue for the raised sight clearance compared to the standard FN model.
So, what was your purpose in creating this poll and thread topic?
Retired LE - firearms instructor & armorer
|April 11, 2014, 10:56 PM
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|April 11, 2014, 11:03 PM
Join Date: February 12, 2001
Location: DFW Area
Posts: 20,806
It doesn't make sense to argue that there's no difference between carrying full-sized guns and small guns when you, yourself, carry a small gun. If there were no difference between carrying a full-sized gun and a small gun, you would not be carrying a small gun. If there is truly no downside to the extra size and weight, there is no reason NOT to take advantage of the extra sight radius, better ergonomics and higher capacity.
Did you know that there is a TEXAS State Rifle Association?
|April 11, 2014, 11:20 PM
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Join Date: June 9, 2002
Location: northern CA for a little while longer
Posts: 1,723
I generally try to avoid shilling calibers, and often even particular makes/models. If pressed by one of our folks looking for a new off-duty weapon, or a private citizen looking for a CCW, I usually try to get an understanding of his/her experience, training, skillset, comfort in carrying, anticipated needs, etc ... and then let them try out a number of different guns I own, guns kept in training or guns belonging to other instructors. Their choice has to suit them, not mirror something I may be using at the time.
I've seen my fair share of folks choose larger guns in size & caliber than they were actually able to consistently shoot well, and I've seen them go the opposite direction, going too little for them to safely, comfortably & confidently handle them when pressed to perform demanding drills.
Everyone's got to find their happy medium of the moment, and then be prepared to later on decide they might want to change, or at least refine, their decision.
I don't look for muzzle energy and "Magnumizing" my dedicated defensive weapons anymore, myself.
Perhaps investing some of your gun money in some local defensive handgun training might be helpful in narrowing down and refining your choice. Regardless of what you decide to choose, it's still just a handgun at the end of the day. It's still just a piece of equipment.
YOU are going to be the dominant factor in using it safely, comfortably, accurately and effectively.
Nowadays, most of the time when some earnest and enthusiastic younger shooter starts to foment some argument about make/model, caliber, ammunition selection, holster, capacity, etc ... I find it easier to simply take them down to the firing line and have them run some new-to-them, fast-paced and demanding drills, often involving more than one threat target, involving movement and threat/non-threat identification.
Quite often when the hits, proper handling & manipulation and accurate "threat identification" (shoot/no-shoot) is less than what they'd expected of themselves, I try to steer them to getting back to basics and mastering their skills ... not rely on some glitzy and gee-whiz pistol-of-the-month to offset their lack of attention to their handgunning skillset foundation.
Pick whatever you like, in whatever nice color you may like ... and get down to focusing on the arguably really critical part of it all ... YOU, and your knowledge & skillset.
Guns come and go, you know.
Best of luck to you.
Retired LE - firearms instructor & armorer
|April 12, 2014, 02:27 AM
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Location: Louisville KY
Posts: 13,534
I'd say whichever you would be most proficient with. If that means a full size, so be it.
|April 13, 2014, 08:34 AM
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Join Date: June 9, 2011
Location: "In the swamps of Montana" with the gators
Posts: 84
re: Which one of the three handguns would you pick for concealed carry?
Either a Colt DS; SandW J-frame or K-frame snub; Taurus 85/850/851/856, all in .38 Special.
|April 13, 2014, 09:25 AM
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Join Date: May 15, 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,500
None of the above, I have a 642 and an LC9, mostly carry the 642, it's a little lighter and a little easier to conceal. If I could carry a big gun it would be a light weight Commander.
|April 15, 2014, 05:04 PM
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Join Date: April 2, 2014
Posts: 156
Pick three handguns that weight 15oz less in weight, Then your incthe concealed area of CC. Those are all to big unless your the size of shaguille o'neil
|April 15, 2014, 08:44 PM
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text:
Betting Shop is a system for running a traditional betting shop, modern betting lounge, or betting kiosk. It can be used stand-alone or linked back to a head office site for liability control and event management. It features an accounting module that generates ready-to-submit financial and tax reports and prints tickets for customers based on templates.
A new gaming platform with on-line demo.
A new gaming platform with on-line demo.
A tool for securing DNS communications between a client and a DNS resolver.
A polyhedral extraction tool (PET).


text:
Elton John agrees with Anderson Cooper: The gay joke in Vince Vaughn's upcoming comedy, The Dilemma, has to go.
"Enough already!" he told UsMagazine.com Monday at his AIDS Foundation's 'An Enduring Vision' benefit in NYC.
John, 63, praised Cooper, 45, for first pointing out how the joke in the film -- "Ladies and gentlemen, electric cars ... are gay," Vaughn, 40, quips -- could be hurtful.
Cooper "is one of the most important people on television," John told Us. "His heart is in exactly the right place — same as mine. He thinks the way I do. He's intelligent, and he's on the side of what we're on. I hate bigotry. I hate racial hatred. I hate sexual hatred. I mean, Anderson is on our side."


text:
HKTV offered the actress a high-paying contract deal in attempt to woo her over from rival station, TVB
Hong Kong actress Yoyo Mung who recently got married to actor Ekin Cheng was reportedly offered a high pay for a two-year contract deal with Hong Kong's HKTV.
According to the Hong Kong media, Yoyo's contract with TVB would end in March. TVB has already begun talks on renewing her contract, but competitor HKTV offered Yoyo five times the amount that TVB is paying her.
When asked by reporters to clarify the rumours, HKTV's spokesperson replied, "We have no comments now. We would make official announcements when the time is right."
Yoyo's manager confirmed that both companies have approached the actress, and she would see what TVB has to offer them before deiciding if they should continue signing on with TVB.
She also emphasised, "Yoyo is not concern about the money, what matters is a good script and production team."
Yoyo and her husband stayed on in Tokyo for a few days following their low-profile wedding in the city, and the newlyweds will return to work immediately upon their return.
According to the Hong Kong media, Ekin spent about HK$500000 (close to S$80,000) on the airplane tickets and accommodation for all 42 guests who attended their wedding. The wedding amounted to HK$1.5 million (about S$230,000), after accounting for setup, decoration, banquet, wedding gown and more.
It is also said that the groom initially wanted their marriage to be a simple affair and was unwilling to throw a banquet. However, Ekin finally gave in to his wife's request and the couple held a simple wedding celebration at a French restaurant in Tokyo.
Meanwhile, reports claimed that the expensive wedding affair was entirely planned by Ekin's manager, although she denied it.
Related article:
Officially married: Ekin Cheng and Yoyo Mung
TVB's rival station courts Yoyo Mung with high-paying contract
Started by athlon , Jan 31 2013 09:47 AMhong kong yoyo mung ekin cheng tvb hktv
7 replies to this topic
Posted 31 January 2013 - 09:47 AM
Posted 31 January 2013 - 10:08 PM
I want her to stay with TVB just so that she can pair up with Bobby again!
Posted 01 February 2013 - 04:38 AM
I like actor Ekin Cheng! he is so cool and he is a good actor. I' m excited when i know this news he got married to Yoyo Mung, but i have to say that they are perfectly matched! Hope Yoyo Mung to stay with TVB.
Posted 01 February 2013 - 05:49 PM
Stay with TVB, it a good choice, better choice
At least she will have more publicity as HKTV doesnt have a license yet, and plus, i am thinking of a lot male leads she can work with in TVB
Wayne Lai, Ruco Chan and many more
At least she will have more publicity as HKTV doesnt have a license yet, and plus, i am thinking of a lot male leads she can work with in TVB
Wayne Lai, Ruco Chan and many more
Posted 01 February 2013 - 06:42 PM
Maybe leaving TVB will do her good, at least the pay is better!
Posted 01 February 2013 - 06:48 PM
I would have gone for the money lol....but the question is TVB is stable HKTV is still not stable because they haven't got the license yet, so what if they never get it? Then she is screwed.
Posted 01 February 2013 - 07:04 PM
^ Lets say she films for them, so if the series is shelved for gawd knows how long, she still gets paid anyway
Posted 01 February 2013 - 07:07 PM
Well if she still get the money then why not. But what if they never get the license and she need a new station to work for and TVB won't take her back? O.o


text:
Cape Town - The drunk driving trial of musician Arno Carstens was postponed in the Cape Town Magistrate's Court on Tuesday.
He will return to court on September 3.
Magistrate Nadia Banwari was sick at his last appearance. The matter had been provisionally postponed so she could organise a suitable postponement date.
The former Springbok Nude Girls frontman has pleaded not guilty to a charge of drunk driving, alternatively driving with a blood-alcohol level of 0.20 percent.
The 0.20 percent level came from the State's analysis. The legal limit is 0.05 percent.
He was arrested in central Cape Town in December 2010 when a traffic officer noticed his black Mercedes-Benz swerving.
His trial has experienced numerous delays.
The court is expected to hear closing arguments soon. - Sapa


text:
I get a lot of emails from PreBloggers and NewBloggers who want to set up a WordPress Blog on their own domain and hosting but don't know how to do it. It's a common question and one I've been looking for resources on to point people to.
Over the last few days I've been watching a series of blogs by Jon Symons called RealBlogVideos (aff) that he's put together to help new WordPress.org users set up their blogs – I suspect quite a few readers will find them useful (note: not everyone will – so read on and I'll tell you who they're for and who they are not for).
Jon makes his living from blogging on blogs like Art of Money and is a regular here at ProBlogger.
The videos cost $15 (US) to buy but for that you get 5 main videos and 3 bonus ones (a total of 162 minutes of instruction).
The main videos are on :
- Find Keywords for Your Topic & Domain Name Research
- Register a Domain Name
- Sign up for and Configure a Hosting Account
- Install a WordPress Blog, Add a Theme and Do the First Post
- Configure Your Blog for Security & Do a Backup
Bonus Videos
- Blogging Copy & Paste Tip
- How To Install WordPress Manually
- How To Install WordPress On Dreamhost
What are the videos like?
You can see from Jon's sales page a sample of one of the videos that will give you an idea of what you'll be buying. Here's a few comments:
- Production Quality – the production of these videos is not super high. There were a number of times I wished Jon had done some more editing but other times where I appreciated the rawness of them as it showed me how a real person's workflow is.
- Usability – Jon is pretty good at putting technical things into a language that most people will be able to follow.
- Usefulness – depending upon your level of expertise (see below) – these videos are quite helpful and useful on the topics you see above. If I'd been given these videos two years ago I would have lapped them up as I'm a visual person and find reading these types of more technical instructions more difficult to follow. Seeing someone else do it is how I learn best.
- Value for Money – I think $15 for two and a half hours of tuition is worthwhile. If you don't agree once you've seen them Jon does offer a 100% guarantee.
So who are these videos for?
I've mentioned above that they are not for everyone but that they will be helpful for some readers.
New bloggers who have never had a blog will find them useful as will bloggers who have been using a hosted blog service (like Blogger.com, TypePad, WordPress.com) who want to get their own domain and hosting to give themselves complete control over their blogs.
Who are they Not for?
Bloggers who are confident at setting up a WP blog, registering for a domain, organizing hosting etc will not learn a lot from these videos. Having said this – I actually did learn a few things about it even though I'd set up a few WP blogs now (keep in mind that the technical side of blogging is not my strength).
These are not advanced videos and they don't coontain unique or exclusive information (it's all floating around the web already in different forms) but they are helpful if you're at the beginning of your blogging journey. If you're at that point you can buy them via RealBlogVideos.


text:
Barbara Jauregui
Affiliation: Pan American Health Organization
Country: USA
Detail Information
- Evidence-based decision-making for vaccine introductions: Overview of the ProVac International Working Group's experienceBarbara Jauregui
Pan American Health Organization, Washington DC, USA Electronic address
Vaccine 33:A28-33. 2015....
- Strengthening the technical capacity at country-level to make informed policy decisions on new vaccine introduction: lessons learned by PAHO's ProVac InitiativeBarbara Jauregui
Immunization Project, Pan American Health Organization, Washington, DC, USA
Vaccine 29:1099-106. 2011..Key lessons learned regarding the role of multidisciplinary country teams, provision of direct technical support, development of tools, and provision of distance and in-person training are highlighted...
- ProVac Global Initiative: a vision shaped by ten years of supporting evidence-based policy decisionsBarbara Jauregui
Comprehensive Family Immunization, Pan American Health Organization, Washington, DC, USA Electronic address
Vaccine 33:A21-7. 2015..In view of the 10th anniversary of the ProVac Initiative, this article describes its progress and reflects on lessons learned to guide the next phase...
- Descriptive analysis of immunization policy decision making in the AmericasJulianne E Burns
Pan American Health Organization, Family and Community Health Area, Immunization Unit, Washington, DC 20037, USA
Rev Panam Salud Publica 26:398-404. 2009..The aim of this study is to document the current situation of national level immunization policy decision making for use in the Pan American Health Organization (PAHO) ProVac Initiative...
- Challenges to building capacity for evidence-based new vaccine policy in developing countriesJon Kim Andrus
Pan American Health Organization, Regional Office for the Americas of the World Health Organization, Washington, DC, USA
Health Aff (Millwood) 30:1104-12. 2011....


text:
:hiya all!
Printable View
:hiya all!
Watching Bobby leave was just as satisfying the second time.
Mark Burnett is a genius when it comes to casting. He knows who to pick for entertainment value!
Wow, Shane really is InShane!
Didn't have long to wait for tonight's installment of Shane-drama, did we?
It would almost be worth getting kicked off the show, just to SMACK Shane upside the head and shut him up.
"Manic-Crazy Spams?"
That's Inshane! Totally InShane!
I don't like Shane at all but I am glad that he is getting on Danielle's nerves who I might like only slightly more than Shane.


text:
Judging from the comments, we caught you by surprise when we announced that MotorStorm RC is coming to PS3 and PS Vita in time for launch. You all seem really excited about the game so I followed up with its director Paul Rustchynsky to discuss in more detail the vision, the Cross-Play with PS3 and PS Vita, and the social interactions that will be at the heart of MotorStorm RC.
If you have any further questions then please let us know in the comments and I'll get the answers.
I'm delighted to be able to announce – and show a trailer for – MotorStorm RC, Evolution Studios' upcoming radio controlled off-road racing game for PS Vita and PlayStation Network. It was also announced literally moments ago on stage – so it's absolutely hot off the press!
You can watch first video of MotorStorm RC in action here.
I've been game director to a small, elite team at Evolution Studios for most of the year, creating a simulation of high-speed radio-controlled car racing for PSN download. We're extremely pleased with how the game is coming together; it's a perfect combination of classic racing with really modern connectivity features and it's already bigger than your average download game, with visually stunning renditions of all four MotorStorm worlds (and eight of their vehicle classes). Every aspect of the game comes loaded with endless competition that you can share with friends and rivals worldwide – whether that's on PS3 or PS Vita, or both – and we're still packing it full of challenges, race types and features too!
Would you be willing to answer a few brief questions about PlayStation.Blog?


text:
Reflecting the strength of the defense case and the flimsiness of the state's case, the jury required only one hour of deliberations to reach the verdict. Another plus for the defense - at the outset of the trial, Washington County Circuit Judge John H. McDowell warned witnesses not to mention Young's involvement with the KKK when they testified, explaining that any mention of his association with the KKK would be prejudicial and could cause a mistrial or reversal of the case. While this certainly does not reflect any sympathy with the white nationalist movement on the judge's part, it obviously implies that the judge is aware of society's pervasive and artificially-fueled bias against white nationalism as well as his own desire that Gordon Young be judged strictly for his actions and NOT his affiliations. Young, married, with a 12-year-old daughter and a 7-year-old son, once headed up the World Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, a white nationalist group which organized rallies at the Gettysburg and Antietam Civil War battlefields during 2006. However, he disbanded the group in late November 2006, three weeks after the girl told her story to police.
[Ed. Note: One can only wonder how the outcome of the Utah trial of the Shaun Walker Trio would have been affected had the judge in that case barred any courtroom reference to their National Alliance ties. Unfortunately, the trio were all active National Alliance members at the time they committed their alleged offenses, and so the judge probably consider their NA affiliation germaine to the case.]
Young, 41, a resident of Sharpsburg, was charged with the offenses after a 15-year-old girl, who was identified as Young's adopted sister, told Washington County Sheriff's deputies that Young made her perform sexual acts on him at his home on two separate occasions in October 2006. He was also charged with second-degree assault and causing another to ingest bodily fluid.
The race card quickly but briefly surfaced during jury selection at the start of the trial Thursday morning, Assistant State's Attorney Gina Cirincion objected to the defense's attempts to strike jurors three different times based upon her perception that the strikes were racially motivated. Only one of the defense's three attempts was successful. Maryland case law prohibits the exclusion of jurors solely because of race, even though the O.J. trial in California showed that black jurors tend to be more sympathetic towards black defendants.
The plaintiff then gave testimony. She testified that Young was "an intimidating person." She claimed that Young wanted to punish her for failure to adequately perform household chores and poor performance in school. "He told me I had to do something that I was going to remember," she testified. She further stated that on one occasion, Young locked the door to his bedroom and made the girl perform a sex act on him.
The plaintiff then testified that a few days later, Young told her she needed to be punished for disrespectful behavior toward him. He laid on his bed and made the girl perform a sexual act even though she cried and said she didn't want to. "He said that the next time I did something wrong, the punishment would be worse," she testified.
However, the plaintiff's testimony was countered by three people. Young, who lived at the home with his wife and mother, testified that he never had sexual contact with the girl. He also stated that he couldn't recall being alone with the girl at any time during the days in question.
Young's mother, Sylvia Hendricks, testified that the girl would "elaborate" and not always tell the truth.
Young's wife testified that she was with her husband on the evenings in question. Under Cirincion's questioning, Young's wife testified that he was with her every minute of the day when the sexual contact was alleged to have occurred. [Ed. Note: On his subsequent report posted on his site, white nationalist radio host Hal Turner stated that the defense was able to produce records proving the victim was involved in work and social-related activities somewhere else at the exact same time she claimed to have been attacked. How Turner got the information early is discussed later in this post.]
During his closing argument, defense attorney David Pembroke suggested that the girl wanted to make a change in her life, so she told a story about her contact with Young. Her descriptions of the incidents were also vague and her testimony was flat and emotionless, Pembroke told the jury. "At 15, she doesn't have the knowledge to fill in the descriptions of the lies," he said.
After the jury's verdict was read, the plaintiff sobbed as family and friends crowded around her and Cirincion clasped her in a hug, while on the other side of the courtroom, Young's family gathered around him.
Aftermath: While the acquittal decision was rendered early on Thursday evening, the first official media reports did not surface until approximately 8:30 A.M. EDT on Friday morning. In contrast, when the Shaun Walker Trio was convicted during the evening of April 30th, the Salt Lake media immediately updated their websites. One must wonder if the Maryland-area media would have been so slow to report the outcome had Gordon Young been found guilty. However, at least the "good guys" won one for a change.
Meanwhile, setting the stage for the latest outburst of white nationalist movement drama to come, ANSWP Commander Bill White, in his other role as editor of Libertarian Socialist News (Overthrow.com), had published an earlier story about Gordon Young on his site. The story, entitled "Teen Girl Testifies NSM Leader Raped Her", was an update on the testimony delivered in the case earlier that day and reflected the latest mainstream media reports available at the time. While White did NOT proclaim Gordon Young to be guilty, his article was implicitly critical of Young, as well as others in the movement who have been accused of improper conduct with underage persons. The report was published at 8:22 P.M. EDT.
Bill White then followed this up by posting the information on the Vanguard News Network Forum.
However, unbeknownst to White, popular white nationalist radio host Hal Turner, who probably has the best network of contacts within the white nationalist movement, had received a phone call from Gordon Young. Turner and Young had cultivated a friendly relationship, and so when Young was acquitted, he promptly phoned Turner and gave him the good news. Turner immediately published the information on his site. The time of publication was 10:07 P.M. EDT.
Like Bill White, Hal Turner followed suit and also posted his information on the Vanguard News Network Forum, as follows:
A Maryland State Jury today took less than one hour to Acquit former Ku Klux Klan Leader of Nine (9) felony Charges.
Gordon Young was found NOT GUILTY of multiple counts of Rape, Child Sexual Molestation and Assault.
His accuser, now age 16, made specific allegations of specific crimes on October 22 and 25, 2006 at specific times. Yet records from work and social organizations proved the accuser was elsewhere at the exact times she claimed to have been attacked!
The jury took less than an hour to find Gordon Young NOT GUILTY.
This information has been out for hours already, yet some on this forum have chosen to omit the NOT GUILTY verdict from their accusatory postings.
I hope it is clear to everyone here how absolutely malicious such posts are and how untrustworthy the sources of those posts have now proved themselves to be.
Stay away from such people. They are trouble and by their own actions here today, they have proved they are no friend of Pro-Whites.
While nearly everyone welcomed the acquittal of Gordon Young, it is the presumptive and judgemental remarks by Turner, which I've highlighted, that lit the fuse.
White's report was published at 8:22 P.M., based on the latest media reports available. Turner's report was published at 10:07 P.M., based on inside information received from Gordon Young himself. Frequent Google News searches of "Gordon Young acquitted" did NOT reveal any mainstream media reports of the acquittal through 6:00 A.M. Friday (EDT). Therefore, I must challenge Turner's assumption that "the information had been out for hours". There was no way Bill White could have known of the acquittal at the time he posted his Overthrow article unless he had inside information like Hal Turner did.
Consequently, I must consider the possibility that the highlighted remarks by Hal Turner constitute a deliberate and unprovoked implicit cheap shot against Bill White. Turner, despite his courageous and persistent activism, simply could not resist the impulse to place his personal animus against Bill White AHEAD of the welfare of the Cause. This phenomenom continues to hamstring the American white nationalist movement and prevents it from achieving the unity and prominence it enjoys in many European nations, such as the British National Party in the United Kingdom, the National Front in France, and the NPD in Germany. All have elected lawmakers to their respective legislatures; we've elected NONE since David Duke. As the Irish Republican Army successfully proved, one must have both a political wing and a provisional wing to succeed.
In a subsequent post on the same thread, Hal Turner briefly recaps the events leading to the breakdown of the relationship between himself and Bill White:
Your intent was - and is - malicious. Everyone sees it.
You're always a little too eager to sew [sic] divisiveness; to sabotage unity, to attack those who are most active.
This same destructive behavioral problem caused a literal riot between the Vinlander Social Club and completely innocent NSM members. Your behavior set the stage for that trouble.
This same destructive behavioral problem is what finally got you thrown out of NSM. When you fabricated lies to divert attention from the fact that former NSM Chariman [sic] Cliff Herrington allowed his wife to share the NSM P.O. Box in Tulsa, OK for her "Joy of Satan" cult. You fabricated stories so blatantly the NSM suspended you. So you threw a temper tantrum and quit.
This same behavioral problem got you thrown off my radio network.
Your first show was OK. The second week you started mis-using the show to attack Pro-White Groups. I suggested after the show that you ought not do that.
The third week, you went on the air and did it again. After that show, I made clear it was not helpful to continue doing that.
The fourth week, you did it yet again. This time, even Tom Metzger called into that show to tell you on the air to knock it off. Instead of reining-in your bad behavior, you asked me to shut Tom off the air. TOM METZGER!
That was the final straw for your radio show.
When you were told you were off the air, you went out and published outright lies claiming you sent me a years worth of money to prepay your show and that I tried to steal your money!
You have a serious behavioral problem. You need psychiatric help.
Todays latest gaff with Gordon Young is, I suspect, the final straw for you. Your behavioral problem has finally exposed you for the troublemaker you are. There's no escaping now, Bill. You did it to yourself.
Your time in the White Nationalist movement is over. Finished.
Good luck in your future endeavors.
Reasonably accurate, with a few exaggerations. First, there is no evidence that Bill White's actions were "malicious"; that's a subjective judgement call. And second, it was undisciplined Vinlander hooligans who attacked innocent NSM members at Nordic Fest 2006; White merely reacted AFTER THE FACT when the NSM, in his judgement, failed to impose consequences on the Vinlanders. While Hal Turner's support of the oft-maligned and demonized "skinhead" movement is gratifying, he seems too quick to excuse their misbehavior on the grounds of "solidarity". The financial dispute is one man's word against another's; I can take no sides on that issue.
And predictably, Bill White did not take these attack lying down. In this response on the Vanguard News Network Forum, he literally unloads on Turner:
As I've communicated to you before, you're a piece of shit, and a parasite, and no part of any movement I'm involved in.
As to Gordon Young, I just don't believe you. Hell, if you said it was sunny outside, I wouldn't believe you then, either, without some secondary evidence.
Don't like it? Come down here with eight cars of gunmen, kill me, and dump my body off the continental shelf, you cowardly loud mouthed pussy.
In real life, Hal, you're just a little man who trembles in fear at the thought someone might assault him, who runs from fights, who spouts out very loudly when he's behind police protection, and who plays out a fantasy on a very limited audience radio show while trying to stave off yet another bankruptcy.
You're a pathetic, dishonest, white trash wimp Hal, and a liar to boot. I'd say I wish you get what you deserve, but you already have it, and this moron and his sockpuppets are it.
Enjoy your "movement".
Clearly an over-reaction; White unquestionably poured gasoline on the fire. But can you blame him, really? I've already shown how Hal Turner deliberately and unprovokedly fired the first shot in this latest exchange. In addition, Bill White's determination to rid the movement of whiggers, perverts and criminals, combined with his dedication to principles of ethical probity and financial transparency, have made him a target for malcontents and their unwitting dupes. Maybe he's getting just a bit tired of being the primary point man for movement reform.
As Bill White promised in another VNN Forum thread, once mainstream media reports confirming the acquittal began filtering in as early as 8:30 A.M. EDT on Friday, he published an updated story on Overthrow.com at 8:52 A.M.
Mind you, I'm no Bill White "acolyte" nor am I a member of the ANSWP (although the donation I was intending to send to Hal Turner will now most likely be split between Alex Linder and a subscription to National Socialist Magazine). I've critiqued his tactics when I've disagreed with them. But I try to focus on the issue rather than the personality, I try to ensure I have the facts, and I also try to be just as quick to defend him when I think he's right. That's called CONSTRUCTIVE criticism. If we are to reach the same level of progress realized in Europe, we simply must become more constructive. If one could somehow construct a leader combining the vision of Dr. William Pierce, the intellect of Alex Linder, the heart of Hal Turner, and the integrity of Bill White into a single package, we could really take off. But until such time, we need to work more effectively with what we have.