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|From: Sam TH (samth at ccs.neu.edu)
Date: Tue Mar 10 09:00:03 EDT 2009
On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 8:44 AM, Neil Van Dyke <neil at neilvandyke.org> wrote: > Matthias Felleisen wrote at 03/10/2009 08:13 AM: >> >> 1. Consider using Typed Scheme to formulate the type of XEXPRs you want to >> use. > > Typed Scheme does have its appeal for this -- for checking in terms of XML > metamodel types (e.g., "element", "cdata"), and, more interestingly, in > terms of XML DTD or XSL model types (e.g., "movie", "title", "director"). I think representing XML schemas (in the general sense) would require a more powerful type system than Typed Scheme. > I have been thinking of only making small changes to unify "xexpr" and SXML, > and therefore keeping a sexp-based representation. > > If you are suggesting formulating the types for a sexp-based representation > using Typed Scheme, is Typed Scheme's current implementation smart enough to > avoid lots of redundant type divining of deep sexp trees? For example, if a > large "xexpr" tree is built up incrementally from, say, a hundred thousand > sexps, nested in various ways, are there situations in which there will > there be lots of redundant traversals of deep subtrees to re-divine the > types? If you were to write a Typed Scheme program that used such a type, it would not incur any overhead in itself, but passing data back and forth with other modules would require contract checks that would have to descend into the full structure of the data, which might be problematic for performance. It is also hard to use a general data structure library with Typed Scheme, since it's not currently possible to generate polymorphic contracts. I'm not sure if an XML library would run into this, it would depend on the representation you chose. -- sam th samth at ccs.neu.edu
|Posted on the users mailing list.

subset: commoncrawl


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The Gathering: making a new Australian musical
"The only reason to write is from love"- Stephen Sondheim. Being a part of a new musical is a unique creative process for almost everyone involved. While it is by no means an easy feat, new works are so necessary in the development of our industry and the identity of the Australian music theatre scene…. Read more.


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7 Colombian troops killed
BOGOTA, Colombia — At least seven Colombian soldiers were killed and five others were wounded in fighting with rebels who tried to seize a town on Wednesday, the military said.
The gunbattle erupted when rebels tried to take over Milan in the southern state of Caqueta and were repelled by dozens of troops, army Gen. Emiro Barrios said.
It was the deadliest clash between Colombian troops and rebels of the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia this year. On Jan. 29, four soldiers were killed in fighting with rebels elsewhere in the country.
The violence came while the Colombian government and FARC rebels are pursuing peace talks in Cuba.
Barrios said a group of rebels estimated at about 150 fighters had clashed with three platoons, or about 90 troops.


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Hey there, time traveller!
This article was published 25/12/2009 (2792 days ago), so information in it may no longer be current.
The University of Winnipeg men's basketball team could use a break -- both literally and figuratively -- and head coach Dave Crook believes the Wesmen Classic men's basketball tournament will provide both for his team.
The 0-9 Wesmen, still looking for their first Canada West conference win and just starting to recover from a number of injuries that have plagued the team, will play their first game in a month when they open action in the annual Wesmen Classic university basketball tournament on Monday. The tournament features eight Canadian and American teams.
"This break has come at a very good time for us and now we're looking at the Wesmen Classic as an opportunity to really rejuvenate our team," said Wesmen head coach Dave Crook.
"It's a great opportunity for us, being at home and having a chance to play games in front of hometown fans. It's an opportunity for us to take the next step and the guys are all really excited about it and ready for it."
The 43rd annual event, billed as a Winnipeg Christmas Classic, featured four other youth basketball events earlier this month but is headlined by the university men's and high school men's tournaments. The finals of both those tournaments are on Dec. 30 with the high school boys championship at 6 p.m. and the university men's championship at 8 p.m.
There will be a new Wesmen Classic university men's champion since the Brandon Bobcats, who won it last year, are not back. The Manitoba Bisons (3-6) are back in the tournament after missing last year's event when the team travelled to Florida.
The Bisons are experiencing their own form of rejuvenation under new head coach Kirby Schepp, a former Wesmen player and member of the Wesmen coaching staff.
"I love the Wesmen Classic, it's a big part of Winnipeg's basketball community," said Schepp, who also coached in the high school boys tournament with the Sturgeon Heights Huskies. The Huskies were provincial finalists last spring in AAAA boys basketball. "I can remember going to watch the Wesmen Classic in the seventh and eighth grades. My buddies and I would go get some food and just sit there and watch basketball all day."
The Wesmen and Bisons are on the same side of the draw so if the two teams win their first games, they would meet in the championship side semifinal on Dec. 29 at 6 p.m.
"It will be really exciting for local basketball fans if that were to happen, and now with our expanded league play, the Wesmen and Bisons don't meet as often as they used to," Schepp said.
On the tournament's opening day of Dec. 28, the Wesmen meet the Bishops Gaiters at 6 p.m. followed at 8 p.m. by Manitoba taking on the Valley City Vikings from Valley City, N.D. Other first-round games go at noon when the Lakehead Thunderwolves meet the Minot State Beavers and at 2 p.m. when the Thompson Rivers Wolfpack take on Laval Rouge et Or.
The eight-team high school boys tournament, won by the Garden City Fighting Gophers for the past two years, is up on Dec. 27 with games at 2 p.m., 3:45 p.m., 5:30 p.m. and 7:15 p.m.
For the full schedule, please go to www.wesmen.ca


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Letter: Choose Bailey again, CG
As a citizen of Cottage Grove looking to make a choice of mayor for the future of the city, I began to focus on the word "choice." We (Cottage Grove) chose Myron Bailey for city council four years ago in a true election that had other candidates available. Myron was elected, not appointed as Fred Luden was. I did not see his name as a choice on the last ballot and he never had to go through the scrutiny of the Cottage Grove public and business groups. We had no knowledge of his positions until he had chances to vote or discuss proposals involving the community.
My choice, Myron Bailey, is based on his ability to see the opportunity of growth for our community, business and public organizations coming together and also his work with Strawberry Festival. He is dedicated to the city, and mostly community. Myron has the ability and time to dedicate himself to his job and the position of mayor. I would like to ask Luden why he didn't run for a council position of the city while he was working. Does this mean he was not capable of multitasking or committing himself to the community he lived in? I don't believe the negative comment of "being able to commit full time to the position of mayor" is a fair and balanced position.
My choice of Myron Bailey also is based on the fact he will listen and if you ask him about why, if voted in favor or against a proposal, you get the true facts. Spin is not in Myron Bailey's vocabulary. I am not sure about this with Luden and the ads he is spinning in the local newspaper.
In the end I am glad that I have a choice and not an appointed former executive from a corporation that still has questions to answer in many communities on the safety of the water and the people it may have affected.
Go ask Myron yourself, he has been a citizen of the community for a long time then you will get answers to make a fair and balanced choice.


text:
by: Zerista • 0
All Android applications categories
by: Zerista • 0
This is the official EENA Conference 2014 application. Use this app to make the most out of your event experience:
- See the attendees' and speakers' profiles
- Send messages to attendees
- Set-up meetings with attendees and exhibitors
- Visit sponsors' "virtual booths"
- Create your own personalised event schedule
You must be a registered attendee to use this app.
Keywords: emergency number, Emergency conference, EENA, EENA 2014, Europe Emergency
Download EENA 2014
Free - V5.01 - 6M
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Ideal for oily and combination skin, this foaming gel cleanser removes makeup, dirt and grime to leave the skin fresh and clean. With the potent blend of red clay, rosemary leaf oil and botanical antioxidants, excess oil is removed, pores are unclogged and the complexion is left soft and matte.
Products are shipped by the individual Fruugo retailers, who are located across Europe and the rest of the world. The delivery times and shipping prices vary depending on the retailer's location, the destination country and the selected delivery method.
Fruugo offers two delivery options: Standard or Express. All retailers offer a standard delivery service, and some retailers also offer an express delivery service.
Although Fruugo retailers endeavour to deliver within these timescales, please note that the above timescales are estimated and not guaranteed.
The delivery timescales do not include any customs clearing times beyond Fruugo's control.
Please allow additional shipping time for deliveries to South Africa.
All carriers deliver during normal business working hours and may require a signature on receipt, so please ensure your order is delivered to an address where someone will be available to accept it.
We do our best to ensure that the products that you order are delivered to you in full and according to your specifications. However, should you receive an incomplete order, or items different from the ones you ordered, or there is some other reason why you are not satisfied with the order, you may return the order, or any products included in the order, and receive a full refund for the items.
Certain products purchased at Fruugo cannot be returned. They fall in the following categories:
Please take reasonable care of the goods whilst in your care. Any goods returned must be in a resaleable condition. They must be unworn/unused with original tags attached and in original packaging. It is your responsibility to ensure that the goods are appropriately packaged to ensure they are not damaged in return transit.
Notifying us of a return
If you wish to return an order, or some of the products included in an order, please notify Fruugo customer care within 14 days of receiving the goods, including the following information:
Our customer care will send you specific instructions on how to ship the return package(s) to the retailer(s). Please do not ship the return package before you receive the instructions.
Shipping products back to retailers
Goods must be returned without undue delay and in any event not later than 14 days after notifying us of your cancellation.
If you are returning products to several retailers, you should distribute the products accordingly and send the products to those retailers who shipped them to you initially.
We strongly recommend that you use registered mail (and insure any high-value packages), since neither Fruugo nor the retailer take responsibility for shipments that are lost or damaged during return transportation.
Please ensure you retain a proof of postage receipt so in the unlikely event your parcel goes missing, you will have proof you sent it.
You will be refunded within 14 days of the retailer receiving back the goods. We will notify you by e-mail once the products reach the retailer and are accepted for return. Where a retailer has offered to collect the goods, you will be refunded within 14 days of cancelling your contract.
Unless a product or products you wish to return arrived to you damaged or faulty, you are responsible for the return transportation costs.
Providing you are returning all the products from a specific retailer, we will refund the standard shipping costs you paid for the original delivery. If you chose to pay for a non-standard delivery, we will only refund the cost of our least expensive, standard delivery.
Damaged or faulty goods
If you receive a damaged, broken, or defective product, please notify Fruugo customer care as soon as possible. Include at least the following information:
We will generally instruct you to ship the damaged product back to the retailer. As soon as it reaches the retailer, they will send you a replacement product. If the replacement can't be made, or if you wish to cancel the order, you will be refunded in full. You will also be reimbursed for reasonable returns postage costs for damaged or faulty goods once we have received your postage receipt.
If the outer packaging of your order is clearly damaged on arrival, and you are suspecting that the products are damaged as well, you can either reject the delivery or accept the goods and sign for them as damaged. In both instances, please notify Fruugo customer care as soon as possible.
Refusing delivery
If you refuse to accept delivery of all or part of your order (where the products or packaging do not appear to be damaged or defective) you will be responsible for the postage charges. Any fees and charges incurred by the retailer due to a package being refused will be deducted from your merchandise refund.


text:
2 Recommendations
HeyJude's recommendation
What an ingenious way to combine a childhood toy with a popular game. Lego Tic-Tac-Toe is a wonderful game for any age and is great to travel with. It comes in teams of 5 policeman and 5 Robbers. It's fun whether you want to be a law enforcer or a criminal.
mwilemon's recommendation
A classic game played with classic toys.
My Collections:


text:
- Park and ride at Henlade closed at around 6.30am.
- County council says "travelling families" have moved on to site.
- Facility likely to remain closed all of Wednesday and into Thursday.
- Silk Mills park and ride still open.
Are you sure you want to delete this comment?


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The Treaty of Master Blaster's Nelly Mask
From Uncyclopedia, the content-free encyclopedia
Perhaps the most controversial of all the recently de-classified documents to come out of the Second Mole People War of Normal, Indiana, the Treaty of Master Blaster's Nelly Mask is asserted by some to be a clarion call to rebellion by Mole People Forces and by others to be an authoritarian statement of invincibility by the treaty's chief architect Rick "Master Blaster" Schwinn.
edit Background
The Mole People had long had a frigid relationship with their surface dwelling counterparts, the human Normal, Indiana population, but it was only with the arrival of the misanthropic and destabilizing Robo Mind Wave 6 that these hostilities were brought to the fore. Robo Mind Wave 6's waves of automoton robo-zombies (nee humans) and his hijacking of Normal's computer infrastructure led surface humans to start depositing their trash underground, thus angering the Mole People and awakening age old hostilities. The Mole People were not angry for the inconvenience of mass dumpings of corpses, wrecked automobiles, and human feces (indeed, they thrive off such "trash"), but rather for the unceremonial manner with which these valuable commodities were discarded. The Mole People have a rich and spiritual culture and the surface dweller's disregard for this beautiful creation is what incensed Mole People the most.
The Mole People fought long and they fought hard, but in the end were able to declare only a draw against their hated foes. They did, however, win several concessions from them. The surface dwellers were forced to once again begin paying their yearly tribute (consisting of the fairest virgin maiden, who would go down into the depths to live and breed with the Mole People) and for embattled Normal, Indiana Mayor Jon Walker to cut off his own penis, and in front of his constituents, eat it. The Mole People, for their part, were required to issue an apology for starting the war.
Mole People Fuhrer Hans "The Hitman" Moleman found this admission of guilt to be an outrageous and humiliating punishment and swore vengeance on the residents of Normal, Indiana, but the Normal residents just laughed at him and his stupid Charlie Chaplin lookin' mustache.
The Second Mole People War was begun as the result of long-simmering animosities, fanned into flame by the Fuhrer Moleman and totally lit on fire by the stupid, stupid actions of Rick "Master Blaster" Schwinn. Let me tell you something about Rick. He is an idiot! This guy, and everyone will tell you it's true, was a total loser before the apocalypse fell on Normal, Indiana. He was the general manager of Honda Motors but he only got the job because his dad was good friends with the owner. Anyway, after the arrival of Robo Mind Wave 6 and the apocalypse, Rick decides it would be really cool if he started dressing up like Master Blaster from the Mad Max movie and riding around on his ZX Crotch Rocket throwing molotov cocktails at people and raping and murdering at will. Yeah, real cool Rick. So anwyay, he starts this motorcycle gang, and starts driving everybody nuts. At some point, the Mole People (who are very sensitive to sound) get tired of all those damn motorcycles roaring around up on the Surface, and they start the Second Mole People War. So thanks a lot, Rick. Also, Rick is a fucking dumbass because he wears a hockey mask like Lord Humungous from The Road Warrior, not Master Blaster, thank you very much.
The Second Mole People War caused mass casualties on both sides and was only put to rest with a ceremonial disengagement known as "The Last Dying" wherein two representatives from both sides are required to commit suicide to heal the divisions between their peoples and settle the score on equal terms.
edit The Treaty, and the Future
The Treaty of Master Blaster's Nelly Mask appears to be a statement of Rick "Master Blaster" Schwinn's power and "lordship over all above and some of the stuff that's below," as that is what the document says. Some scholars maintain, however, that this phrase was inserted by a Mole People spy and that, if read properly, is in fact contrary in spirit to Master Blaster's intentions for area domination. For instance, much of the document is saracastic and some of it appears to directly call Master Blaster a "bag of shit." Master Blaster, for his part, contends that he is not.
The debate rages on, and the important thing to remember is that The Treaty of Master Blaster's Nelly Mask, though controversial, is certaintly not the last word in the ongoing surface dweller-Mole People-Robo Mind Wave 6 conflict that has plagued the residents of Normal, Indiana.


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Wed Jan 9, 2013, 09:04 PM
democrattotheend (10,150 posts)
Questions for those on Medicare (or who have experience with it)
I know Medicare Part B has a 20% coinsurance for most services. The information about it on the Medicare and AARP sites is a little vague, so I am hoping people who have experience using Medicare can fill in a few blanks for me.
1) It says that the 20% includes doctor's fees for services performed in the hospital. So does that mean you pay 20% of the whole cost of a surgery or other procedure, or just the portion of the procedure that comprises the fees for the doctor's time (as opposed to the supplies, facility fee, other personnel, etc.)?
2) Do doctors ever voluntarily disclose the expected cost of a procedure or treatment in advance so you can figure out how much you will have to pay for it?
3) If you request that information beforehand, how difficult is it to get it so you have some idea how much your bill will be?
73 replies, 6910 views
|73 replies
Questions for those on Medicare (or who have experience with it) (Original post)
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Response to democrattotheend (Original post)
Wed Jan 9, 2013, 09:11 PM
southernyankeebelle (11,304 posts)
1. Well I will be using my Medicare for the first time tommorrow. I got a book. But I have to
tell you there is to much information I get confused. I have even got online with mymedicare.com.
Again to much. If you are talking about the hospital stay you might want to call the hospital. They probably have someone there that can talk to you about medicare. I got my card in the mail and I was automatically put on A & B. You can also call and make a phone appointment at home and they will call you back and a time and day of your choice. They will sit down and talk with you also. I called my primary doctor office and spoke with the lady that usually makes my specialist appointment. She gave me alot of information. You can try that.
Response to democrattotheend (Original post)
Wed Jan 9, 2013, 09:13 PM
underpants (127,517 posts)
2. Some, sort of, answers
I deal with drugs that are billed under Med B (typical inhaled/infused - anything with devices, called DME, or supplies or nursing) and you basically have a 20% copay or "Coinsurance".
Typically, from what I have read, doctors are amazingly unaware of the costs. Most of this is due to need for treatment and not for protection from lawsuits as many would tell you. They are also encouraged by administrators because the hospitals make good money off of these.
I would say the best idea is to explain to your doctor that you have cost concerns. You may be surprised how unaware they are of cost. If you can go to the administrative offices and ask questions - or you can stay on the phone with your insurance company if you want.
Response to democrattotheend (Original post)
Wed Jan 9, 2013, 09:17 PM
spartan61 (2,045 posts)
3. Medicare Part B
does pay 80% and you are responsible for the remaining 20%. That is why it is important to have supplementary insurance which pays for what Medicare doesn't pay. I pay $104.50 per month this year for my Medicare and $160 per month for my supplementary ins. This also covers 80% of my Rx, my dental, my vision and hearing, with a $250 deductible. This is through the CT State Teachers Retirement. My husband has the same policies and it 's a good thing because he has been fighting cancer since 2011. If we didn't have this we most likely would have to file bankruptcy because we would have gone through all of our savings. I only have positive things to say about Medicare. I find it efficient and well run.
Response to spartan61 (Reply #3)
Wed Jan 9, 2013, 11:14 PM
ReformedGOPer (172 posts)
31. my husband is also on medicare.
and we have had a similar experience. His supplementary is 125.00 per month, and they pay anything that isn't covered under part A or part B. It's very well run and we have no ccomplaints.
Response to democrattotheend (Original post)
Wed Jan 9, 2013, 09:20 PM
Glitterati (3,182 posts)
4. Whew boy, are you in for a shock!
First, call the doctor's office and get the EXACT name of the procedures he is expected to perform.
Then, call the Medicare office and explain you need to find out what your cost is going to be for these procedures.
They are going to tell you there is a "usual and customary" fee for specific procedures. They are WELL below what your doctor and hospital are going to charge.
Forget the 20%. You are liable for any cost OVER the usual and customary fee, unless your doctor is going to accept that amount.
And, it's going to be a LOT of money.
Response to Glitterati (Reply #4)
Wed Jan 9, 2013, 09:25 PM
democrattotheend (10,150 posts)
5. That is good advice, thanks
I was actually asking as part of my research for a paper...I am about 40 years too young for Medicare. But my dad will be eligible in a few years so I will definitely pass this advice along.
How do you know if your doctor accepts the regular Medicare fee or a higher fee? Do they tell you that in advance? And isn't there a cap on the amount a doctor who charges more than the usual and customary rate can charge Medicare patients?
Response to democrattotheend (Reply #5)
Wed Jan 9, 2013, 10:25 PM
Glitterati (3,182 posts)
11. Our first hand experience
My husband was disabled. Because disability recipients don't qualify for Medicare for 2 years from their disability date by Social Security, he went untreated with heart disease after open heart surgery - a quad bypass.
When he finally got Medicare, he went to his cardiologist. The cardio wanted to runs some tests - EKG, scans, etc. The total bill was going to be around $6,000.00 for these tests.
After he called Medicare, we found out we would owe more than 4,000.00 of it. The doctor basically told him "too bad" we couldn't afford it.
He didn't have the tests and he was dead within a month.
Yeah, he had Medicare a whopping 6 weeks before he died.
Response to Glitterati (Reply #11)
Wed Jan 9, 2013, 10:47 PM
democrattotheend (10,150 posts)
16. Wow, I am so sorry
You hear stories like that about private insurance all the time but it's rare to hear stories like that about Medicare.
I am surprised the cardiologist wanted upfront payment...I thought docs usually do the tests and then bill later, without telling you how much it's going to cost.
Response to democrattotheend (Reply #16)
Wed Jan 9, 2013, 10:51 PM
Glitterati (3,182 posts)
18. Oh, they do.
This doctor had no intention of spelling out the costs until I made my husband start asking questions of him and Medicare.
We spent the last 8 years of his life fighting with medical bills.
Response to democrattotheend (Reply #16)
Wed Jan 9, 2013, 11:20 PM
Glitterati (3,182 posts)
33. BTW, here's annother FYI for you
Folks on Social Security Disability not only don't qualify for medicare for 2 years, there is no supplemental plan which will cover anyone under the Medicare age.
Bottom line - if you are disabled, you can't buy a supplemental plan AT ANY PRICE. No one will write the policy.
on edit:
This is the end result of Republicans who have been screaming "freeloaders!" for years.
Response to Glitterati (Reply #33)
Thu Jan 10, 2013, 01:57 AM
stopwastingmymoney (664 posts)
53. Not necessarily
My husband is blind, disabled and on Medicare. He has a supplemental policy with Kaiser.
Response to stopwastingmymoney (Reply #53)
Thu Jan 10, 2013, 03:26 AM
Glitterati (3,182 posts)
58. At what age, though?
Response to Glitterati (Reply #58)
Thu Jan 10, 2013, 11:07 AM
stopwastingmymoney (664 posts)
64. 51 now
He's had it for a couple of years now
Response to democrattotheend (Reply #5)
Thu Jan 10, 2013, 01:16 AM
yellowdogintexas (14,199 posts)
51. doctors accepting Medicare fees
what you want to ask the office mgr at the surgeon's office is whether the doctor 'accepts assignment' on Medicare
a simple example of what this means:
$100 service $60 'usual and customary rate" (used to be called the area prevailing rate)
dr doesn't accept assignment : Medicare pays the doctor 80% of $60 and you may be billed for the remaining amount
There may be a cap built in there. I used to process these claims and that was how it worked then. Some things have changed.
Dr does accept assignment: Medicare pays the doctor 80% of $60 and you are responsible for 20% of $60.
Moral of the story : choose physicians who accept Medicare assignment.
If you have surgery there will be an anesthesiologist and a million labs. You have no choice in whether these providers accept assignment but usually the interpretation of your labs will be assigned
the facility bills under part A. the docs bill under Part B
Response to Glitterati (Reply #4)
Wed Jan 9, 2013, 11:23 PM
Democrat 4 Ever (3,919 posts)
34. Well, actually you just need to make sure the doctor accepts Medicare. If he/she does then you are
responsible only for 20% of the usual and customary care fee. If the doctor accepts Medicare it means the government will mail him his check directly to him - docs like this a lot - guaranteed payment made very fast. By agreeing to accept the U&C fee the doctor gives up the right to bill you the difference. Period. They have to adjustment off the difference. Example: I did medical billing for a psych group. The doctors billed $150.00/for a 50 minute session. Medicare recognized the usual and customary as $60/hr. They would pay the doc $48.00, you would pay $12.00 and the doctor adjusts off $90.00. The docs have a valid complaint that the U&C is too low to really sustain a practice - especially if you are only seeing one patient an hour, but they do like the ease and the fast payment. Just make sure your doctor accepts Medicare. The great mystery in all of this is how Medicare (and most health insurance companies) arrive at the U&C fee for each procedure. They can never explain or justify the expense - it's just whatever they decide.
Response to Democrat 4 Ever (Reply #34)
Wed Jan 9, 2013, 11:27 PM
Glitterati (3,182 posts)
36. Not this Doctor
Not in Georgia.
He specifically told my husband he was responsible for the costs Medicare did not pay.
He took Medicare. HE just didn't accept the U&C.
Response to Glitterati (Reply #36)
Sat Jan 12, 2013, 11:20 PM
Yo_Mama (8,300 posts)
67. There's a difference between accepting Medicare and accepting assignment.
If you accept assignment, the fee is whatever CMS says it is. CMS pays the doctor 80% of it directly. The fees allowed are generally low.
If a doctor accepts Medicare but not assignment, then the doctor can charge extra and Medicare pays the patient - the doctor collects from the patient.
Response to Yo_Mama (Reply #67)
Sun Jan 13, 2013, 09:20 AM
Glitterati (3,182 posts)
69. I see...however,
this was the only cardiologist within 35 miles who took Medicare at all.
We just had no choices.
Response to Glitterati (Reply #69)
Sun Jan 13, 2013, 03:00 PM
Yo_Mama (8,300 posts)
70. Yeah, I get it.
I'm sorry!
Response to Glitterati (Reply #4)
Sat Jan 12, 2013, 11:09 PM
Yo_Mama (8,300 posts)
66. You have to get a doctor/hospital that accepts assignment
If they do, then medicare pays them the 80% separately, but the fees are capped at what Medicare allows. If they don't accept assignment, then Medicare pays you and you remit whatever you get to the doctor, but he/she can charge anything he/she wants.
Since older folks don't have much money, most places do accept assignment - but it also leads to them limiting the amount of Medicare patients they take. For some types of practice, such as cardiology, they are pretty much locked in to Medicare.
Response to democrattotheend (Original post)
Wed Jan 9, 2013, 09:26 PM
Old Codger (4,205 posts)
6. My experience
So far and I have had it for quite a while now, the Dr. and the hospital will be more than glad to give you the numbers on what your portion will be before hand and quite often will give you a discount if you can pay up front...at least this has been what I have experienced... You can also check with Medicare to get what the are paying for any specific procedure....
Response to democrattotheend (Original post)
Wed Jan 9, 2013, 09:29 PM
REP (21,677 posts)
7. I have Kaiser
It's a flat fee for everything
Response to REP (Reply #7)
Thu Jan 10, 2013, 03:33 AM
silverweb (15,595 posts)
60. I'm thinking about Kaiser.
[font color="navy" face="Verdana"]My Medicare will kick in later this year and I've been wanting to research Kaiser as my supplemental, hoping to get everything covered that way.
You're happy? No nasty surprises?
I simply don't have the stamina anymore to wade through reams of rules, conditions, and exceptions, only to be hit with a surprise bill after all is said and done.
Response to silverweb (Reply #60)
Thu Jan 10, 2013, 05:27 AM
REP (21,677 posts)
61. I've been very happy with it
I don't pay for labs or tests, not even MRIs or CTs or any of the other horrible things I've been put through.
$20 copay for office visits and outpatient surgery. My Rx co-pay is $30 or $10 for 100 day fill (less if I use mail order).
If my kidney disease gets worse, dialysis and transplant are covered.
I have excellent doctors, including a raft of specialists for my list of weird shit.
I do have a retiree plan; I retired on disability and I know how very, very lucky I am to have had a Union job!!
Response to REP (Reply #61)
Thu Jan 10, 2013, 05:57 AM
silverweb (15,595 posts)
62. Thank you!
[font color="navy" face="Verdana"]That's a huge help.
I had Kaiser through my job some years ago and loved it, was very upset when the company was sold and insurance changed. It'll be nice to be able to get it again.
They have seminars for people going on Medicare, so I'll have to schedule attendance at one in the next few months.
Response to democrattotheend (Original post)
Wed Jan 9, 2013, 09:39 PM
MindandSoul (1,817 posts)
8. Your co-payment for each medicare service covered is 20%
My husband has been on medicare for about 8 years, and he has had several major surgeries since then. Medicare pays 80% and you are responsible for the other 20%.
However, we chose to take a Medicare supplemental insurance (many types exist, but we took the "cadillac plan" which covers the COMPLETE 20% that Medicare doesn't cover). These can be (depending on the coverage you choose, quite expensive, but well worth it as the needs increase with age.
Let me give you an example and compare this to an "investment."
My husband pays about $55.00 per month for Medicare for a total over the last 8 years of (about) $5,200.
He is also covered by a supplemental insurance that costs us ABOUT $180.00 per month for a total of $16,000 (approximate).
Over the last 8 years, the cost of his health care (including the 4 surgeries) came to close to $200,000 IF HE HAD NO COVERAGE AT ALL. Because he was covered, and medicare has "special rates" for each services, the cost went down to about $100,000 (I.e., this is a rounded figure to make the calculation easier).
Medicare paid 80% of that which came to $80,000
The private supplemental insurance covered 20% of that which came to $20,000
Now. . .which "investment" do you think would be the smartest?
Investing $5,200 and saving $80,000?
Investing $16,000 and saving $20,000?
Now, please note that both are "good investment," but . . .when you look at it that way, you can see WHY Medicare is in trouble (pays too much for too low a fee, for people who, because of aging, will ONLY have greater needs in the future), but we keep on complaining about medicare not "being efficient!"
While we praise private health care industry for being "more efficient" than the government. . .but the only reason they are more efficient is because they charge A LOT MORE for A LOT LESS coverage!
I have always wonder why Medicare doesn't offer an option to reimburse 100% of the cost of care for people over 65 at a cost of (let's say), $100.00 extra dollars per month (for a total of $155.00 per month, you would have 100% of your health care need paid for by Medicare)
This could TRIPLE the entry in Medicare funding, AND would take away the co-payment paid by the elderly for a much smaller pay out.
In the case of my husband, for example, it would look like this:
Over the last 8 years, instead of paying $5,200 to Medicare AND $16,000 to a private insurance (for a total of $21,200)
We would have paid, $13, 200 to Medicare alone.
AND, obviously, Medicare would have paid received $13,200 INSTEAD of $5,200
and would have disbursed $100,000 instead of $80,000
Both party (My husband AND Medicare) would have greatly benefited from that arrangement. . .the only party left out of this "win/win" situation would have been. . . Private health care insurance covering the Medicare supplement!
Response to MindandSoul (Reply #8)
Wed Jan 9, 2013, 10:41 PM
democrattotheend (10,150 posts)
15. Interesting. I am actually proposing the opposite in my paper
I started out writing about why they should not raise the Medicare age, but decided to expand the paper to propose alternative cost-savings. I am proposing that Medigap be reformed to have some cost exposure rather than covering everything, in order to bring down the premiums and enable more people to be able to afford it, as well as saving Medicare money by forcing patients to ask questions about cost and consider cost in deciding whether to do an expensive procedure, particularly one with little chance of success.
The way I structured my proposal, it is targeted primarily at ensuring that cost is not completely absent from the equation when patients and their families make decisions about life support or aggressive treatments with low probabilities of prolonging life. Medicare spends 27% of its budget on care in the last year of life, and studies showed that 1/3 of Medicare beneficiaries who died in 2008 had surgery in their last year of life, 1/5 in their last month. The way Medicare is currently structured, there is no incentive for doctors or patients who have supplemental insurance to consider cost in making these decisions, and family members who have no cost considerations often want the doctor to do everything they can despite the low odds of success, which is both enormously expensive for Medicare and often causes the patient more suffering than if she had been moved to hospice or pallative care or allowed to go home and die on her own terms.
I know this is going to be controversial on both the left and the right, but Medicare spends a huge chunk of its budget on a relatively small number of beneficiaries. I think it's only fair that people who want to use public funds to keep someone on life support or perform expensive "hail Mary" surgeries ought to pay at least a small fraction of the cost.
On a broader level, I think ensuring that patients have some relationship to the cost of their care is important to prevent waste and overbilling. Without cost-sharing and with loose enforcement from Medicare there is little accountability for doctors who upcode or perform expensive and unnecessary tests, which often result in treatment procedures that were arguably unnecessary and cause the patient more discomfort and complications. For example, most men who have prostate cancer will die of something else before they become symptomatic. Having the surgery often causes impotence or incontinence or both. I wish I had known that before my dad had his prostate surgery...I would have at least encouraged him to seek a second opinion. But in his case, it was arguably the right thing to do because they caught it when he was 58. PSA tests are almost completely useless for men over 75 and the medical community does not recommend them, but they continue to be conducted (in part because of lobbying from oncologists and the diaper industry) and often lead to unnecessary surgeries that cause impotence or incontinence.
I know a lot of seniors are struggling and I don't want anyone to go bankrupt paying for healthcare, but I think completely disconnecting people from the cost of their care and not allowing the government to set any limits (heaven forbid, death panels!) creates so much waste and drives up costs and makes the system unsustainable in the long run.
Since I know the American people would never accept having Medicare set limits on how much it will spend per patient or refuse treatments that have a low probability of keeping someone alive, I am proposing restructuring Medigap and Medicare Advantage to require some cost-sharing so that people cannot insist on aggressive hail Mary treatment for terminally ill patients or unlimited life support without baring any of the cost.
Response to democrattotheend (Reply #15)
Thu Jan 10, 2013, 12:06 AM
virgogal (8,374 posts)
45. Can you document your statement that diaper companies are
lobbying for PSA tests for men over 75?
Response to virgogal (Reply #45)
Thu Jan 10, 2013, 12:17 AM
democrattotheend (10,150 posts)
46. Sure, here's my source
It doesn't specifically say diaper companies lobbied for screenings for over 75, but it says the Preventative Service Task Force recommended stopping them for all ages because the harm outweighs the benefit, especially for men over 75. But Medicare spent $146 million on PSA's for men over 75. 15% of terminally ill men received prostate cancer screenings between 2003 and 2008.
It also says the diaper companies "got involved" because prostate surgery sometimes leads to incontinence, which is good for their business.
Response to democrattotheend (Reply #46)
Thu Jan 10, 2013, 12:23 AM
virgogal (8,374 posts)
47. Thank you very much---I'll read it tomorrow--getting late here in the East.
Response to MindandSoul (Reply #8)
Sat Jan 12, 2013, 11:21 PM
ancianita (6,417 posts)
68. MandS, this is pure Single Payer system that I was protesting for back in 2009.
The whole country would benefit from this system. Anyway, back to the topic at hand...
Response to democrattotheend (Original post)
Wed Jan 9, 2013, 10:10 PM
dhol82 (2,081 posts)
9. wow
i have been on medicare for about a year and a half. got the aarp cadillac plan. costs me $240/month. the prescription addition costs me another $35/month.
not sure how you other guys get it for less.
as an fyi, here in the new york metropolitan area, most md's accept medicare. have to say that i am embarrassed by how little the reimbursement is. wish i could top it up but it's not allowed.
as a side note, i am a, pretty much retired, health professional. have a problem understanding how the medicare reimbursement covers many of the costs. would not be surprised if, in the future, some docs opt out of the system.
Response to dhol82 (Reply #9)
Wed Jan 9, 2013, 10:19 PM
virgogal (8,374 posts)
10. I had an endocrinologist refuse to treat me as a Medicare patient and
this was about 10 years ago.
That was the only time,but I'm afraid it's going to get worse.
Response to virgogal (Reply #10)
Wed Jan 9, 2013, 10:32 PM
Glitterati (3,182 posts)
12. Most doctors in Georgia refuse Medicare and Medicaid patients
The teaching hospitals (Emory, etc.) and doctors are just about the only ones who take it.
Response to Glitterati (Reply #12)
KoKo This message was self-deleted by its author.
Response to Glitterati (Reply #12)
Thu Jan 10, 2013, 12:00 AM
virgogal (8,374 posts)
44. My refusal was at a teaching hospital in MA. All of my friends are
on Medicare and I've never heard of another denial.
Response to virgogal (Reply #44)
Thu Jan 10, 2013, 12:59 AM
Glitterati (3,182 posts)
50. I'm guessing
You live in a state where Democrats have some control. I don't. I'm in Georgia and everyone - doctors, hospital, etc. - are free to do as they please. In the field of medicine, that means they can pick and choose their patients.
Response to Glitterati (Reply #50)
Sat Jan 12, 2013, 10:47 PM
virgogal (8,374 posts)
65. Terrific guess---I'm in MA.
Response to democrattotheend (Original post)
Wed Jan 9, 2013, 10:37 PM
TheKentuckian (23,947 posts)
13. Get a supplement. Yes, the 20% is hanging out there.
Medicare for all is selling ourselves short, we need Tricare for all and to expand the dental coverage even at that.
Response to TheKentuckian (Reply #13)
Wed Jan 9, 2013, 10:41 PM
Glitterati (3,182 posts)
14. IF you can afford it.
Lots of folks on Social Security can't. Are you reading these replies in this thread alone? Folks are paying more than DOUBLE Medicare premiums for the remaining 20% of their bills.
Do you get that? You're paying DOUBLE Medicare premiums for someone to cover 20% of your medical bills!!!
Talk about screwed.
Response to Glitterati (Reply #14)
KoKo This message was self-deleted by its author.
Response to KoKo (Reply #17)
Wed Jan 9, 2013, 10:56 PM
Glitterati (3,182 posts)
20. Already there.
My husband's case was the classic example of Alan Grayson's "Die Quickly."
He had Medicare for 6 weeks before he had to refuse the tests which might have warned us of the coming heart attack that killed him.
Response to Glitterati (Reply #20)
KoKo This message was self-deleted by its author.
Response to KoKo (Reply #26)
Wed Jan 9, 2013, 11:04 PM
Glitterati (3,182 posts)
27. Medicare didn't deny the tests.
We couldn't afford them. Please read upthread. I explained the situation there.
Response to KoKo (Reply #17)
Wed Jan 9, 2013, 11:00 PM
democrattotheend (10,150 posts)
23. It's been a good deal for my grandpa
At least, it has been the last few years, while he has been in and out of the hospital and had frequent doctor visits, therapy and prescriptions for mental health.
But he did pay premiums for years when he was healthy, so I guess he's just getting his money's worth now.
Response to Glitterati (Reply #14)
Wed Jan 9, 2013, 10:55 PM
democrattotheend (10,150 posts)
19. That's because the Medicare premiums are heavily subsidized
From the money you paid in or the money that comes out of current workers' paychecks, depending on how you look at it.
They estimated when they considered Medicare buy-in for people ages 55-64 that the unsubsidized premium would be about $600/mo per person. It would probably be higher, even much higher, for older age groups.
Medigap premiums are not subsidized and thus cost more. If Medicare premiums were based on the actual risk of providing you coverage they would be a lot more than $104/mo.
Response to democrattotheend (Reply #19)
Wed Jan 9, 2013, 11:00 PM
Glitterati (3,182 posts)
21. Regardless
You're talking about the average Social Security recipient who gets $1200.00/month. And, you're saying they should pay Medicare $104.00 and then a supplemental another $215.00 out of that $1200. leaving them $900.00 or less to LIVE on?
Not. going. to. happen.
Response to Glitterati (Reply #21)
Wed Jan 9, 2013, 11:01 PM
democrattotheend (10,150 posts)
24. Not necessarily
I just meant that you can't say Medicare is so much more efficient because it charges less for 80% than Medigap charges for 20%, without acknowledging that Medicare is heavily subsidized.
In my paper, I am proposing restructuring Medigap to discourage the purchase of policies that cover ALL costs not covered by Medicare, in order to avoid situations where people can choose unlimited life support for a relative or costly hail mary surgeries for people with terminal conditions without any consideration of the cost.
Having Medigap policies that cover most but not all out of pocket costs would also make the policies more affordable by lowering the risk and thus the premiums.
Response to democrattotheend (Reply #24)
Wed Jan 9, 2013, 11:02 PM
Glitterati (3,182 posts)
25. Those are the facts
Response to Glitterati (Reply #25)
Wed Jan 9, 2013, 11:05 PM
democrattotheend (10,150 posts)
28. I meant not necessarily as in those with limited incomes should not necessarily buy them
Not that I dispute the facts of how much they cost or that they might be unaffordable to some people. Sorry if that wasn't clear.
Response to democrattotheend (Reply #28)
Wed Jan 9, 2013, 11:08 PM
Glitterati (3,182 posts)
29. I think what you are missing is this
$1200.00/month is the AVERAGE Social Security payment per month.
You're not talking about SOME, you're talking about MOST.
That's the point you're missing........these folks have skin in the game - their LIFE.
Even WITH Medicare, they can't afford medical care, much less a supplemental insurance policy to cover 20% of the bills they can't afford to begin with.
Response to Glitterati (Reply #29)
Wed Jan 9, 2013, 11:18 PM
democrattotheend (10,150 posts)
32. I understand that
I'm not proposing that we charge Medicare beneficiaries more...I am proposing that we restructure supplemental insurance for those who can afford it to pay most but not all of the costs, so that those people would not be completely detached from the cost of their care when making decisions, especially toward the end of life when aggressive treatment has a low probability of success but is often demanded by family members who want the doctors to do anything that might have any chance of prolonging their life a little bit, no matter what the cost to Medicare.
This in turn would help protect Medicare and maybe even bring down costs a little by reducing overall costs. It would also make supplemental insurance more affordable by reducing how much it has to pay out.
Response to democrattotheend (Reply #32)
Wed Jan 9, 2013, 11:24 PM
Glitterati (3,182 posts)
35. Trust me, no ONE is detached from the cost of their care
I just spent 3 days in the hospital uninsured. My 4.5 hours in the ER bill was $15,000.00.
No one is detached from those kinds of costs.
Stress is what caused my illness to become deadly. Do you think the stress of $50,000.00 in hospital bills is going to help me get well?
Response to Glitterati (Reply #35)
Wed Jan 9, 2013, 11:34 PM
democrattotheend (10,150 posts)
38. Those with Medicare and supplemental are detached
My grandfather spent 3 days in the hospital and a week and a half in a mental health ward and did not pay a cent for it, because Medicare and his Medigap policy paid everything.
I am proposing that people with those policies have some cost-sharing (in exchange for lower premiums). Not people like you who don't have supplemental insurance and already pay too much out of pocket.
Response to democrattotheend (Reply #38)
Wed Jan 9, 2013, 11:43 PM
Glitterati (3,182 posts)
39. That's simply not fair
Because of ONE person, you are extrapolating that to everyone.
My husband is a classic example of having lots of skin in the game, caring about cost. As are most people.
Here's the thing you forget.
When you have a medical emergency, you can't "shop" for the cheapest doctor or hospital. You go to the nearest medical facility. Once there, you are ASSIGNED the doctor who treats you. You have no choice and you most certainly did not shop around for him/her.
Before his disability was approved, my husband was hospitalized under Medicaid. The doctors he was assigned, was angry with him for refusing to be transported to the hospital where he got sick. So, he told him he would just keep him in the hospital, regardless of need, until he transferred out.
It was only threats of turning him in for Medicaid fraud that changed his mind.
You're not concerning yourself with the true problem - the cost of medical care in this country. If the hospitals and doctors weren't so damned expensive, we wouldn't have any of these issues.
Why, in God's name, did it cost me $15,000.00 to sit in the ER, in a bed, waiting for the hospital to find a room for me to be admitted to? What part of those costs are prohibitive? It's not like I could just walk out of the ER and go "shopping" for a room with a bed in it. Do you realize the ER charges in 4 hour increments for the bed they put you in?
WHEN do the costs get addressed instead of beating up on sick people whose only alternative is to pray like hell they don't get sick!!!!!!! When?
Response to Glitterati (Reply #39)
Wed Jan 9, 2013, 11:46 PM
democrattotheend (10,150 posts)
41. I am trying to propose ways to lower costs for everyone
Which I don't think can happen if people don't hold their doctors accountable for charging so much.
And as long as you have supplemental insurance that pays every penny there is no incentive to.
Plus, it's unfair that those who can afford it buy supplemental policies that cover everything while those who can't afford those policies get stuck with much higher out of pocket costs, to the point of sometimes being fatal as in your husband's case.
Response to democrattotheend (Reply #41)
Wed Jan 9, 2013, 11:51 PM
Glitterati (3,182 posts)
42. Your assumption is simply WRONG, though
You are blaming the wrong party. A patient ALREADY has every incentive not to incur costs - with no control. What the hell is it you think someone is supposed to do while a patient in the hospital to control costs - or put "skin in the game" as you call it.
There are simple options for the patient:
A. Refuse to pay the price the Doctor is asking and put your life at risk
B. Die
Do you really think someone who is ill can "shop around" for the best price? Or refuse a test the doctor orders? Not take the meds because the hospital charges more than the Walmart pharmacy? Rip out the IV because the meds cost too much?
Just HOW is a patient supposed to control costs when they lack control of ANYthing?
Response to Glitterati (Reply #42)
Wed Jan 9, 2013, 11:59 PM
democrattotheend (10,150 posts)
43. Here's an example of what I am talking about
This article talks about how a woman not only incurred $1.2 million in medical bills during her last 6 months of life but probably suffered more than she would have if she had just been allowed to die peacefully. The article notes that cost never figured in at all when making decisions about her care because she had Medicare and supplemental, so there were no out of pocket costs for anything.
I just don't think it's fair that someone can incur such high costs on Medicare's dime without her family ever having to think about costs, when poorer seniors like yourself who cannot afford supplemental coverage are forced to forego necessary care because of cost.
If Medigap covered 15% of the cost instead of 20% and patients had a 5% coinsurance rate, more people would be able to afford supplemental coverage, and people would have a greater incentive to consider whether expensive, low-probability of success surgery done just in case it might prolong a terminally ill patient's life by 2 months is worth it.
If Medicare could save money on expensive and often not cost-effective end of life procedures that often make things worse, it could afford to charge lower premiums and copays for those who cannot afford supplemental.
Response to democrattotheend (Reply #43)
Thu Jan 10, 2013, 12:26 AM
Glitterati (3,182 posts)
48. You're STILL blaming the wrong party
It's not the patient nor the family who made those decisions - it's the doctor AND the hospital.
Let's just talk about my specific situation.
I have Graves Disease (hyperthyroidism). 22 years ago, I had an original diagnosis, got care, and was released from medical care. This instance was "supposedly" from a pregnancy and would not recur. At least that is what I was told by my Doctor.
22 years later, the day after Thanksgiving, my family insisted I go to the ER because I was so sick. My legs and feet were so swollen, you couldn't distinguish my shin from my foot, nor my lower leg from my thigh. Additionally, I couldn't walk up the 14 stairs to my kitchen, I could only CRAWL up them. Also, between Halloween and Thanksgiving, I had lost 60 pounds. Frankly, I looked (and still do) like a walking skeleton.
I finally relented and went to the ER. I was diagnosed with a deadly thyroid storm, congestive heart failure and fluid on my lungs.
I was admitted to the hospital, put on IVs, meds and complete bed rest.
When the endocrinologist came in and started talking surgery, I called my sister (a 2nd year medical student) to come home. She had worked at a clinic in downtown Atlanta while she was at Georgia Tech and I knew the doctors there were high quality, caring and cognizant of cost controls - they treat the underserved, the poor.
At any rate, we got the doctors at the hospital to release me, got an appointment at Good Sam and I went home after 3 days. Sick as a dog, with lots of prescriptions I can't afford, but on my way to better, cheaper care. In fact, the day after I got home, I passed out on a concrete floor and broke my nose because the meds dropped my blood pressure too fast. I refused to go back to the hospital. My single goal was to get to the cheaper doctors.
I did get to Good Sam, loved the doctor who stopped the surgery talk, explaining that in Europe patients stayed on the meds I was on for years without needing surgery!
So yesterday, I saw the endocrinologist at Good Sam. She is talking about, eventually, killing my thyroid completely with a radioactive iodine treatment I have to drink. Of course, this treatment presents risks to my daughter at home, because I will be radioactive for WEEKS. She will have to stay with family for a couple of weeks. But, it requires no hospitalization, no surgery. No more expensive medical bills. And, the medication they will replace my thyroid function with will cost 10 CENTS a day, instead of the one I am on now that costs $5.90 per day.
I'm getting the best possible care at a cost that is reasonable - not "usual and customary." My visit with the endocrinologist cost $25.00 yesterday. I got the bill from the hospital for THEIR endocrinologist who came to my room one time - $970.00 - whose only solution was surgery to remove my thyroid and eventually put me on the same $0.10/medication as above.
But, the ONLY reason that doctor released me from the hospital is because HE worked at Good Sam once and knows the doctors and standard of care there. He actually told me "you're a walking malpractice lawsuit if I let you out of here." Frankly, that's why I refused to go back to the hospital when I passed out - so I didn't scare this man half to death and he locked me in that hospital until I was transported by ambulance to Good Sam.
What you also have to understand is the good luck of having a med student in the family who knew where to go, and how to get me there.
Most patients are not so lucky.
Also, uninsured or insured, the outcome would have been exactly the same. Insurance would NOT have stopped me from looking for the best possible care I could obtain at the best possible cost.
Response to democrattotheend (Reply #43)
Thu Jan 10, 2013, 12:55 AM
Glitterati (3,182 posts)
49. Here's what is needed
STRONG patient advocates, whose sole job is to ensure the patient (or an unconscious patient's responsible party) is informed of ALL the choices of care and ensures patient care is valuable and proper.
Throughout this process, there is no one who has the sole responsibility to ensure a patient is informed, appraised of ALL the possibilities, and whose wishes are being respected.
Preferably, a medical student, nurse practitioner, etc. who understands the field of care and has the power to enforce provisions legally.
The hospital endocrinologist had one purpose - to do surgery; dismissing the radioactive iodine as "that is dangerous, too." She simply refused to discuss the possibility. When I told her I couldn't afford surgery because I was uninsured, she left my room and I never saw her again.
It is THIS kind of care that must be avoided - taking the most expensive, most dangerous course of action because the parties involved make more money.
Response to democrattotheend (Reply #24)
Thu Jan 10, 2013, 02:16 AM
Downwinder (12,869 posts)
56. Don't like that.
There is no way I could afford the copay. OTOH by spacing it out on a monthly basis for Medigap I can do it. Additionally there is talk about means testing. Means testing would limit the assets an individual could maintain, making the copays that much more un-affordable.
If you want to cut the end of life costs, authorize euthanasia at the individual's request either with a living will or in person.
Response to Glitterati (Reply #14)
Wed Jan 9, 2013, 11:45 PM
Blue_In_AK (46,430 posts)
40. My husband's pension withholds $300 from his monthly check
for our supplemental insurance but there is a $5,000 per year deductible. After that, they pay 100% of everything, which i guess would be great if we ever get really sick. They were deducting $800 a month before we both went on Medicare, but the deductible was much smaller.
Response to democrattotheend (Original post)
Wed Jan 9, 2013, 11:00 PM
Downwinder (12,869 posts)
22. I have Medicare A and B plus a supplemental policy and Part D
I qualify for the Part D extra help.
If the Dr. accepts Medicare assignment he is limited to what Medicare will pay plus 20% copay.
My supplemental has covered deductible and all copays. It also extends hospital coverage. The supplementals and Part D are approved by CMS and are crafted to their standards.
Response to democrattotheend (Original post)
Wed Jan 9, 2013, 11:34 PM
Blue_In_AK (46,430 posts)
37. When I had cataract/cornea surgery last year,
the doctor's office did calculate my portion, although I think I did end up paying a little more because the first eye had to be redone because the cornea transplant slipped off center. Still, it wasn't too much. The surgery center ended up being two or three times more, plus I had an anesthesiologist fee, of which my portion was pretty small.
Our supplemental insurance has a $5,000 patient out-of-pocket deductible before it kicks in. I think our total portion on the two eyes was about $2,500. Medicare paid a LOT.
Response to democrattotheend (Original post)
Thu Jan 10, 2013, 01:29 AM
bkkyosemite (5,792 posts)
52. I don't know if this has been said here
as I have to run but I have been on Medicare for years. I have had a Advantage plans where you pay co-pays to the doctors and I have had a supplemental where you pay a larger premium but you pay no co-pays and your 20% is paid for along with the 80% from Medicare.
I use AARP supplemental F plan that covers most things both in the hosptial and in the doctors office, labs xrays etc.
Of both options to take care of the 20% I prefer the supplemental type. AARP gives you a discount on your premium for the first 10 years and it gradually goes up about $10 to $12 a year. I pay currently for myself $112. per month AARP supplemental and of couse out of my Social Security Medicare takes their premium also of $104. If you need prescriptions there are those plans too. I do not need the prescriptions because I am covered through my husband's pension although we pay for that in a premium also. Insurance is a pain but you need it. It's about $250 a month altogether for me. Hope this helps I know it can be confusing in the beginning.
I think the advantage plans are a waste. The premiums jump too much and they continue to find more for you to pay on co-pays.
Response to bkkyosemite (Reply #52)
Thu Jan 10, 2013, 02:32 AM
mrmpa (3,955 posts)
57. My 82 year old mother has a medicare advantage plan......
She pays $0 per month for this. She has co pays, but not more than $30 per appointment. If she is hospitalized, she pays a flat $250, no matter the length of the stay. I bought a subscription to our local ambulance service, $40 for the year. If either of us go to the hospital by ambulance, we pay nothing.
The hospital we use, gives you a 15% discount, if you pay the bill within 10 days. Mom had surgery (outpatient) and received the bill for $250, but paid it in 10 day and deducted $37.50 from the bill.
For prescriptions, even though Mom has a federal government pension, she is eligible for a state run program for prescriptions. However, I sat down and looked at all her prescriptions. Using the state program she was budgeting $100 a month for her meds, the state only allows you to get 30 days worth of meds, cost is $8 for generics and $15 for non generic. I found 2 pharmacies where she could get most of her prescriptions at either $4 a month of $10 for 3 months, and she would not have to use her insurance. She now budgets $100 every 3 month, she saves $800 per year.
As for me, I'm 9 years away from being eligible for medicare. I am currently uninsured. I'm able to get two of my prescriptions at $0 cost & one @ $4. The others were anywhere from $39 to $600. I went to Costco & have one prescription that at the pharmacy I was using was $68 a month, I get it Cost for $14.
It's an insane system.
Response to democrattotheend (Original post)
Thu Jan 10, 2013, 01:58 AM
DesertFlower (11,605 posts)
54. i just got medicare 6/12 when my husband
passed away. i looked into the supplemental plans and some of them ran almost $300 a month and didn't cover some of the drugs i take. because of hubby's years with IBM i qualified for a supplemental medical/drug plan through united health care. i get the same drug coverage we had before but i have a $4,000 deductible per year, but it's also a $4,000 max out of pocket. it costs $28 a month. i don't go to that many docs so i did the math. at $300 a month ($3600 a year) plus having to pay for some of my own drugs i decided to go with the high deductible. figured i could spend almost $4,000 a year just in supplemental policies that might not be used. so my medicare this year is $104 plus $28 for my supplemental.
Response to DesertFlower (Reply #54)
Sat Jan 19, 2013, 10:20 PM
bkkyosemite (5,792 posts)
71. The supplemental is really not a supplemental
I too have my husband's IBM pension supplemental in order to get the prescriptions thru IBM. That is why I get the supplemental through AARP for doctors and hosptial as the one you speak of would not cover all the appointments I have to go to. Small world
Response to bkkyosemite (Reply #71)
Wed Jan 23, 2013, 09:46 PM
DesertFlower (11,605 posts)
73. yes. it is.
Response to democrattotheend (Original post)
Thu Jan 10, 2013, 02:06 AM
YOHABLO (3,774 posts)
55. Oh My, They sure do make it all so easy. It's all bull if you ask me. Single Payer Now !!
Response to YOHABLO (Reply #55)
Sat Jan 19, 2013, 10:21 PM
bkkyosemite (5,792 posts)
72. HR 676 Single Payer Now Agreed!
Response to democrattotheend (Original post)
Thu Jan 10, 2013, 03:31 AM
Thirties Child (385 posts)
59. Medicare is a blessing for us
Personal experience. We have supplemental insurance that is great for prescriptions, although we can get more and more of them for $4 from Kroger or WalMart. Medicare seems to always bring doctor's and hospital's prices way down. Last February my husbaand was in the hospital six days after a messy full knee replacement - the whole thing included a nuclear heart stress test, several visits by lurking cardiologists and tremendous delayed bleeding, which in the past has come close to killing him. The hospital bill was over $33,000 but after Medicare negotiated lower costs, and after our supplemental did whatever it does, we paid something like $1100. Later in 2012 he had two more minor surgeries on his knee, with platelet transfusions each time, as well as two procedures on a detached retina, and the cost has been negligble for all four. I mean neglible as in none for some of them.
Response to democrattotheend (Original post)
Thu Jan 10, 2013, 09:54 AM
2pooped2pop (5,420 posts)
63. info on supplemental insurance
the supplemental stuff is very confusing. Forget medigap if that is still around but know this if you are deciding on a supplement plan.
All plan A's are the same
All plan B's are the same
All plan F's are the same
In other words, a plan a is a plan a. By any company. It is required to be the same. So if you decide you like plan A, you then just have to look at who offers it, at what price, and how easy they might be to work with to make your decision.
If you decide you like plan F. Just look at all who offer it and decide from there.
It makes it a lot easier when you realize that each plan is the same by whatever carrier.
I think I chose a plan F for my mom. Cost 132 a month from mutual of Omaha. Paid almost everything but 56.00 per doctor visit. When she died, while on life support, I got zero in bills. When she went to er a few years earlier, there were little or no bills. She did not have many meds so we had no problems.
as to your questions on doctor services, yes I think those are are billed as separate cost but end up being about 20% out of pocket across the board.
blue cross/sheild used to have a search engine that would tell you the cost of different procedures at different facilities and also list the out of pocket cost. You might try to find that. If one place charges 800 bucks for something and another charges 500 for the same thing your out of pocket cost would differ by about 60 bucks.


text:
The list of officials, witnesses and others who will testify at the federal hearing on two Metro-North Railroad mishaps that occurred in May has just been released.
Railroad and union leaders, representatives of the Federal Railroad Administration and others are scheduled to testify
before the National Transportation Safety Board.
One of the accidents injured more than 70 passengers; the other killed a rail worker.
The hearings will be held next Wednesday and Thursday.
Here's the NTSB announcement:
WASHINGTON – The National Transportation Safety Board today released the final agenda for the two-day investigative hearing on two recent Metro-North train accidents in Connecticut. The Board will discuss issues related to the May 17, 2013 derailment and collision involving two Metro-North commuter trains in Bridgeport, Conn. and the May 28, 2013 accident in West Haven, Conn. in which a rail worker was struck and killed by a Metro-North passenger train. The hearing will commence at 9:00 a.m. each day.
Below is the final agenda, including the list of witnesses and issue areas:
Day 1, Wednesday, November 6, 2013
Chairman's Opening Statement
Panel 1 –Track Maintenance and Inspection
Witness Panel
Kenneth Rusk – Federal Railroad Administration
Gary Carr – Federal Railroad Administration
Robert Puciloski – Metro-North Railroad
Rick Inclima – Brotherhood of Maintenance of Way Employes
Robert Florom – Transportation Technology Center, Inc.
Bruce Wigod – New Jersey Transit
Issue Areas
• Metro-North's track maintenance and inspection program
• Federal track inspection standards
• Federal Railroad Administration's oversight and monitoring of Metro-North's track inspection and maintenance
• Brotherhood of Maintenance of Way Employes' report on the adequacy of federal track inspection standards and track inspection time study on Class I railroads
• Transportation Technology Center, Inc.'s evaluation of Metro-North's track maintenance and inspection
• New Jersey Transit's use of automated inspections in conjunction with visual inspections
• Advantages of using automated track inspection methods
Panel 2 – Railroad Passenger Car Crashworthiness
Witness Panel
Devin Rouse – Federal Railroad Administration
Dwight Sowden – Metro-North Railroad
David Tyrell – Volpe National Transportation Systems Center
Dr. Clifford A. Woodbury – LTK Engineering
Yoichiro Araki – Kawasaki Rail Car, Inc.
Issue Areas
• Existing FRA Passenger Equipment Safety Standards
• Crashworthiness of Metro-North's M-8 railcars (with particular focus on B-end Corner Post strength and Truck-to-car body attachment)
• Quality control of Kawasaki M-8 rail car construction
Day 2, Thursday, November 7, 2013
Panel 3 –Operational Protection of On-Track Work Areas
Witness Panel
Les Fiorenzo – Federal Railroad Administration
Rick Inclima – Brotherhood of Maintenance of Way Employes
Stephen Neville – Metro-North Railroad
Robert Puciloski – Metro-North Railroad
Kai Petersen – Association of Commuter Railroad Employees
Issue Areas
• Metro-North's Roadway Worker Protection Program
• Metro-North's operations center processes for protection of on-track work areas
• Metro-North's internal oversight of control center operations
• FRA's oversight and monitoring of Metro-North operational protection for on-track work areas
• Incorporating lessons learned from incidents and accidents
Panel 4 –Organizational Safety Culture
Witness Panel
Howard Permut – Metro-North Railroad
Anne Kirsch – Metro-North Railroad
Kirk Thomas – Association of Commuter Railroad Employees
Dr. Richard Hartley – B&W Pantex, LLC
Chris Silvera – Teamsters Local 808
Les Fiorenzo – Federal Railroad Administration
Issue Areas
• Workforce and management perspectives on safety
• Communication on safety within the organization
• Learning from safety data
• Identifying hazards and managing risks
• Processes for investigating and learning from incidents and accidents
• Safety changes since the accidents
• Strengthening organizational safety culture
• Regulators' role in assessing and improving organizational safety culture
Chairman's Closing Statement
The investigative hearing, being held in the NTSB Board Room and Conference Center in Washington, DC, is open to the public and free of charge. The proceedings will also be webcast live.
Directions to the conference site are available at www.ntsb.gov/about/conference_center.html.


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Special Teams
The Coach
It is not how you start, but how you finish. This could have easily been the motto for the 2008 Geneva College football team. After limping to a 1-5 start against a rigorous early season schedule, the Golden Tornadoes quickly turned their fortunes around in winning their final four games, including a victory over eventual PAC champion Thomas More.
The Golden Tornadoes dropped early season games to NCAA Division II national qualifier Seton Hill and top ten Division III programs Salisbury and Washington & Jefferson in the first four weeks of the season. That tough stretch only made Geneva stronger and the Golden Tornadoes were able to take advantage with a final season stretch that saw them outscore opponents by a combined 45 points in the final four games.
The question for Geneva and head coach Geno DeMarco heading into 2009 is whether they can maintain that momentum and get off to a better start in September and October. That question will be answered soon enough, but with the firepower returning on the offensive side of the ball and a solid core returning on defense, the prospects for a special season in 2009 are already in place.
Many football experts will say that a college football player makes his greatest improvements from his first to his second year. That theory couldn't have been truer than in describing the play of quarterback David Girardi. Girardi took great strides in becoming one of the finest quarterbacks in the Presidents′ Athletic Conference. Girardi is set for his third stint as Geneva′s offensive leader after completing close to 54% of his passes for 1474 yards and ten touchdowns. "David certainly came of age a bit last year," said head coach Geno DeMarco. "He has worked extremely hard on and off the field to be the best quarterback he can be and to be the leader that we need on the offensive side of the ball."
While the quarterback position seems to be in good hands with an experienced signal caller, the running back position is almost overflowing with experience. In 2009, Geneva will return three starting backs, all of which made significant contributions in 2008. Gerard Muschette (719 yds), Matt Barge (633 yds) and Matt Dean (426 yds) combined for close to 1800 yards rushing and 17 touchdowns last year. All three backs will return in 2009 looking to improve upon an already impressive resume. "We are blessed to have so much talent in the backfield," said DeMarco. "At times it seems there are not enough footballs to go around, but I certainly am looking forward to watching these guys get after it this year." Dean and Barge will be playing in their final season, while Muschette, who ran for two of the programs five longest touchdowns in school history last year, is only a junior.
The receiving core will look different in 2009 after the graduation of Luke Duriancik and Brian Dvorsak. But even with those departures, DeMarco is optimistic about his wideouts. "We still have some weapons out there," he said. "Parker (Neutzel) has enjoyed an outstanding off season and AJ (Delmonico) will only continue to get better. We also have some new faces that may surprise some people."
The offensive line will also have a new look after the graduation of some key members in 2008. But like the receiving core, it appears that group won't miss a beat. "Nothing can happen on offense without a solid group up front," said DeMarco. "We feel like we have the personnel to get it done, but we will be looking for several guys to step up early in the season."
It could be a fun year at Reeves Field for the offense and for the fans, but maybe not so much for the scoreboard operator.
While the Geneva offense will enjoy the return of many of its key components from 2008, the defense will be looking to fill some very big shoes on the other side of the ball. Most notably, the Golden Tornadoes will be without 3/4 of a starting linebacking core that included three-time All-Conference selection Zach Feltrop.
Additionally, starters Dan Terracciano and Greg Pfeifer will also need replaced.
The Golden Tornadoes will look to simply reload in the middle of their defense and surround four-year starter Aaron Tommelleo in what should be a very athletic group on the defensive side of the ball. Chance Kelosky and Javon Moody should see significant time at the linebacker spot, while key returners up front on defense include Adam Rose (11.5 TFL), Dan Dillman (24 tackles) and Brian Wilson (3 sacks). In the secondary, Matt Curry and Marcus Costanza will return for their second stint while four-year starter Rich Kolesar will be looking to put an exclamation point on the end of his career.
"Clearly the defense will have much less experience going into the season than does our offensive group," said DeMarco. "We are still very excited about the athletes we have on defense and feel this could develop into a very strong group."
Along with the rest of the football team, the defensive unit struggled early in 2008, but came on late in the season to help contribute to four straight victories to end the year. In those four wins, the defense yielded an average of less than 20 points per game. "The guys returning from last year certainly know what it takes to be successful," said DeMarco. "We need to simply build on those positive experiences at the end of the year and take them into 2009. It will be fun to watch this group grow together throughout the season."
Graduation has also taken a bite out of the special teams tandem at Geneva for 2008. After three years as the Golden Tornadoes punter, Andy Stopchick ended his run last season. As a result, Geneva will be auditioning for a new punter in the fall. As far as placekicking duties go, the Golden Tornadoes are in good hands or in good feet with junior Nick DiPietro. In his first two collegiate seasons, DiPietro has accounted for a team high 90 points, which includes 13 field goals and 51 extra points.
"We don't minimize our special teams in any way," said DeMarco. "This coaching staff understands the importance of our kicking coverages and returns, as well as our punting and placekicking. We are fortunate to have some experience in several areas of our special teams, but we will certainly be looking to develop a punter early in the season."
AJ Delmonico did a solid job returning kicks last year with an average of close to 22 yards per return. He also came up with the only return for a touchdown in 2008 when he scampered 88 yards for a touchdown against Grove City. Delmonico may also get the first shot at replacing Luke Duriancik on punt returns.
Being consistent is one of the main ingredients to success on the football field. Nothing could be more accurate when it comes to a coach. Geneva College has been blessed to have plenty of consistency on its coaching staff with only two head coaches in the past 33 years. Geno DeMarco begins his 17th season as Geneva′s head coach, which will match his predecessor Gene Sullivan for the longest head coaching tenure in 120 years of Geneva College football.
"It is really quite overwhelming to understand all that we have accomplished in 17 years," said DeMarco. "It takes a lot of people to make this thing go in the right direction and I have been very blessed to have some of the best coaches around me during these years. Coach Sullivan has remained an inspiration in my life and will continue to be a person that I will try to pattern my coaching and personal life after."
Geno DeMarco has guided the Geneva College football ship for a long time and has seen his program take off in ways that never seemed possible. As the Golden Tornadoes prepare for another chapter in 2009, coach DeMarco and his staff will look to continue the great tradition that has already been built on College Hill."Everyday we try to maintain a standard that was set long before me or any of these players stepped foot on this campus. It is our job to put a product on the field that makes everyone proud and to put a group of young men in the classroom and in the community that makes us even prouder."
At last count, nearly 100 former Geneva players under Geno DeMarco had themselves entered the coaching ranks. That number in itself proves what kind of impact that Geneva College and Golden Tornadoes football is having on our community. In 2009, Geno DeMarco and the Golden Tornadoes will continue to provide excitement for the fans and alumni on the field. Off the field, he will continue emphasize a teachable spirit aimed at servant leadership.
© 2017 Geneva College | All rights reserved


text:
Johannesburg - Job-seekers must be aware of bogus job adverts on Gumtree, the Gauteng provincial government said on Tuesday.
"We would like to warn unsuspecting members of the public against adverts which were placed on a number of websites including Gumtree," spokesman Sithembiso Ndlovu said in a statement.
Apparently job-seekers were requested to pay a once-off administration fee of R150.
"Please note that these advertisements are fraudulent as the Gauteng provincial government does not charge its residents for job applications."
Ndlovu advised the public to ignore such adverts.
He said details of Gauteng provincial government vacancies were freely accessible on their website. - Sapa


text:
But fear not - there is plenty to explore...Shop all Patagonia Shop sale Patagonia
Be prepared for unexpected showers on summer hikes or downpours when doing errands with the Patagonia Torrentshell Jacket. Highly packable, this is a no frills 2.5 layer hardshell that's treated with a H2No® barrier for serious wet weather protection. Avoid being a soggy mess next time nasty weather strikes and gear up with the Torrentshell now!
100% Nylon Ripstop
2.5-layer H2No® Shell Fabric Waterproof, windproof, breathable and highly packable, this material combines a water-repellent shell fabric with Patagonia's H2No® waterproof barrier and a raised pattern on the inside, instead of the full-coverage interior scrim used in 3-layer fabrics. The raised pattern makes 2.5-layer fabric packages lighter and more compressible while still protecting the waterproof barrier.
Regular Fit Ideal for layering
Two handwarmers
One internal mesh drop-in
Packs into zippered self-storage pocket
Deluge® DWR (Durable Water Repellent) Finish Patagonia's Deluge® DWR lasts substantially longer than standard DWR; garments treated with Deluge® DWR have a "like new" water repellency after years of wear.
Drawcord hem
2-way adjustable, stowable hood with laminated visor
The microfleece-lined neck provides comfort and protects the waterproof/breathable barrier.
The Center-front zipper has exterior and interior storm flaps to keep water out.
Self-Fabric Hook-and-Loop Cuff Closures
Pit zips have storm flaps and Deluge DWR-treated zippers.
Welded Composite Seams Patagonia's advanced stitch-free construction for hard shells uses a form of sonic welding, reinforced with mesh and backed by thin tape. This unique design minimizes weight and speeds dry time. Stitch-free, welded seems improve the shell's performance by eliminating needle holes.


text:
Their single All The Things She Said has outsold current chart topper, Stop Living The Lie, and will be the girls' first UK number one.
Video shock
The video for their single has shocked some people as it features the two girls kissing and holding hands in the rain.
Other songs set to chart highly this weekend include Kelly Rowland's new single Stole, which looks likely to enter the charts at number two.
David Sneddon is currently in third place, followed by Jay-Z and Beyonce Knowles with Bonnie & Clyde, and Busted's Year 3000.


text:
Lose a book, pay the price
Students who lose or damage instructional materials will have to pay schools 100 percent replacement costs under a bill that passed the Senate today on a 38-0 vote.
SB 1248, sponsored by Sen. Stephen Wise, R-Jacksonville, changes current law, which requires students to repay costs for lost or damaged books at a rate of 50 to 75 percent if more than a year old.
"This is where you teach a young person character," Wise told his colleagues in debate.
Sen. Frederica Wilson, D-Miami, wanted to know what happens when a child or his parents is unable to pay the textbook costs, which can approach $50. Could people be turned over to a collection agency if they couldn't pay?
Wise said there was nothing within the bill to call in collection agencies and explained a provision that allows for a penalty or in-kind activity in lieu of payment, such as scraping gum off the bottom of desks.
"I will assure you it will help young people gain some respect for the cost of a textbook," Wise said.
The House version, HB813, is headed to a floor vote soon.


text:
Brighten up your child's room with this adorable Disney Princess Table Lamp. Little girls will love the beautiful Princess design featuring favorite Disney Princess including Cinderella, Aurora, and Rapunzel from Tangled. Unlike conventional lamps, this kid's lamp includes a pink base and handy heart shaped pull chain that your kids would love to turn on and off over and over again. Apart from being a night lamp, the pull-chain table lamp lends itself to enhance the decor of your kids rooms and nurseries. Also, the table lamp has been crafted to compact dimensions in view of kids safety and ease. If your kids love Princesses and adore Disney artwork, this decorative table lamp is a must in their rooms and nurseries.
- Painted colorful metal base for added support
- Features favorite disney princesses
- Easy pull chain for kids
- This table lamp has been crafted to compact dimensions in view of kids safety and ease
- ETL listed
- Uses 40 watt bulb or 13 watt CFL, bulb not included
- Easily assembled


text:
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4 days ago
#Whatson in #Wicklow this weekend. The Hollywood Fair @ Hollywood, Wicklow , GROOVE FESTIVAL @ Killruddery House and Gardens , THE INTERNATIONAL LADIES POLO TOURNAMENT @ Ashford, Wicklow, Ireland, WOMEN'S ADVENTURE RACE @ Roundwood and more. Check visitwicklow.ie/calendar/ #Wakeupinwicklow Ireland's Ancient East ... See MoreSee Less
Wicklow Tourism shared Wicklow e-bikes's video.
4 days ago
Wicklow e-bikes
It's competition time here at Wicklow e-bikes! To celebrate the launch of our website www.webike.ie, we have a fantastic prize of 2 half-day e-bike rentals plus lunch for 2 people at Lynham's Hotel Laragh. To be in with a chance of winning, just like our page and this post, tag who you would take with you and remember, sharing is caring! ... See MoreSee Less
Definitely sorted Nicky Jefferson-Breen..😎😎
Hi folks, please like and comment directly on the Wicklow e-bikes page for this competition! Thanks and best of luck 🍀
Yes, please! 🇮🇪Liked ✔ and shared ✔ Laura Or
Jason Brett
My Mum! 🇮🇪Liked ✔ and shared ✔ Laura Or
Will do this next time I'm home 🏡
Looks lovely but hard work
Emer Casey this would be heavenly
Liked, shared and tagging Charles J. Falsone
Geraldine Galvin sorted
Niamh Mcd
Aaron AD
Bernie Nuzum
Lillian Duffy
Ann Tuohy Ida Lane
Donna Ni Laithain
Tara J Mc Cormack
Daithi Johnston
David Walsh
Maurice Brady
5 days ago
Heritage Week in Wicklow has organised events at over 60 different locations in #Wicklow: guided tours, hikes and bat walks, photography exhibitions, nature camps for kids, archaeological digs, whale watching and more. #MyWicklow Ireland's Ancient East ... See MoreSee Less
Had a fantastic time in Glendalough with the UCD school of Archaeology . Thanks you to Prof Graeme Warren and Dr . Conor McDermott. Found some pieces of pottery . Enjoyed every minute of it . Great people fab time roll on next year.


text:
The Alderley A, Drumnagoon Meadow, Drumnagoon Road, Craigavon
From £139,950 to £145,000
4 Bed Semi-detached house For Sale
From £139,950 to £145,000
Show Home Open Viewing: Sundays 2-4 pm and by appointment
Contact the Agent
MSR Estate Agents (Lurgan)028 3834 4888 Show Phone Number Call The Agent
Email the Agent
We've sent your enquiry to MSR Estate Agents (Lurgan).
You can also reach them on the number listed above.
This agent has listed the accuracy as: Exactly Right
This property forms part of the Drumnagoon Meadow development.
Click here to view all available property types within this development. View the Development
Click here to view all available property types within this development. View the Development
|Unit Name
|Site 15 Drumnagoon Meadows
|1,275 sq. feet
|Site 21 Drumnagoon Meadows
|Sale agreed
|1,275 sq. feet
|Site 27 Drumnagoon Meadows SHOW HOME
|1,275 sq. feet
|Site 60 Drumnagoon Meadow
|1,275 sq. feet
Additional Information
Type A 1275 sq ft approx
Ground Floor
Entrance hall with separate WC
Living room plus bay 20'10" x 10'0"
Kitchen/Dining 20'10" x 10'0"
Utility 6'4" x 3'10"
First Floor
Master bedroom max 12'6" x 11'7"
Bedroom 2 10'0" x 8'10"
Bedroom 3 10'3" x 10'0"
Bedroom 4 10'3" x 10'0"
Bathroom 7'6" x 7'0"
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