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Talk:Eternal return
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- 1 Text moved from article
- 2 Ewige as perpetual revert
- 3 References in culture
- 4 Battlestar Galactica
- 5 And in mathematics...
- 6 Moved from article
- 7 Proofs against eternal return
- 8 Goethe
- 9 Correction
- 10 Reliable sources for the term dharmic religions?
- 11 Question about the Xenosaga Eternal Return citation...
- 12 Free will?
- 13 The Matrix
- 14 Eternal return is actually a fact
- 15 Eternal return and Politics
- 16 Premise section errors
- 17 Omission of Eternal return across infinite space
- 18 Pink Floyd The Wall
- 19 "Premise" is flawed
- 20 Ouspensky
- 21 Eastern vs. Western Christianity
- 22 External links modified
Text moved from article[edit]
Here is the Anglican stuff:
- From the Anglican Book of Common Prayer's burial rite:
- In sure and certain hope of the resurrection to eternal life through our Lord Jesus Christ, we commend to Almighty God our brother <name>; and we commit his body to the ground; earth to earth; ashes to ashes, dust to dust. The Lord bless him and keep him, the Lord make his face to shine upon him and be gracious unto him and give him peace. Amen.
As the article points out, the ancient pagan idea of circular time and eternal recurrence was displaced by the Christian idea of the resurrection. Although the resurrection is imagined as a bodily phenomenon, the idea is that the saved will live in the New Jerusalem, where in this article the idea is that our lives AS THEY ARE will play out again. These are two separate ideas. The Dogandpony 20:05, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
I moved the text from Eternal Recurrence here. I think it misses the point entirely, but I didn't want to delete it. Dan 07:41, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)
If instead one wishes to analyze Nietzsche's concept of the Eternal Recurrence, one can understand it in at least two senses:
One, by considering the universe as an infinite series of compositions or configurations, one concludes that the composition of this very moment one is living will—must—occur again. Any given configuration must have a probability greater than zero, being that otherwise it would not have come to pass.
A finite set is the result of necessarily finite aggregate probabilities, meaning that events in the past will again occur in the future. The past and future are thus indistinguishable—and, invoking Occam's razor, one and the same. The fact that the future folds back to the past leads to the conclusion that Time, contrary to any rectilinear model, entails a circular, cyclical characteristic.
Two, by considering 'the mind', or a person's consciousness, as a subjective map of the world, (again understood as a series of momentary mental configurations), one may consider that such a 'map' must contain a copy of itself, and that copy a copy as well, ad infinitum. However, the copy's necessary deprecation imposes upon this a quantum limit. It is vaguely speculated that the philosopher may experience a sense of infinite subjective depth, and that this series of 'echos' is its cause.
A third sense, rarely considered or translated as such, is derived from the first word of the German phrase ewige Wiederkunft des Gleichen (eternal recurrence/return of the same) meaning perpetual or continuous, thus the "perpetual return of the same". The key idea is that instead of the first sense, a return to the same state of affairs eternally, each quanta of force, of will to power, exerts its own creative will, thereby affirming that individual will, or individual creative act. This is not unlike the idea that an identity must remain the same throughout change, except in Nietzsche's sense, as here interpreted, the identity is not unchanging, but rather created by the will to power and perpetually recurring. The identity that ceases recurring is overpowered by another quanta of will to power. One's 'self' identity is a creation of will to power, or more accurately, a system of quanta or centers of force (an oligarchy). Since all is will to power, everything is perpetually recurring, the world appears to Be, but is actually in constant flux, continuously returning to the will to power. Therefore, the 'same' in "perpetual (or eternal) return of the same" is power, the cause and telos (goal) of everything, for all degrees of configuration, atom to plant to human. (The most comprehensive of Nietzsche's expressions combining both recurrence and will to power may be found in his unpublished note of 1885, 38{12}, (WP 1067))
I removed this because senses 2 and 3 are frankly baffling and 1 is redundant since it's stated at the top (in simpler language, I might add). Evercat 01:51, 5 September 2005 (UTC)
Case 1 is the most common construal of Nietzsche's 'doctrine' in the majority of commentaries on his works, yet still contentious. I'm not familiar with the second rendering but it doesn't appear, prima facie, very 'nietzschean' in terms of the main normative ideal of the doctrine, which would seem to require a more metaphysical motivation. Unless the inner 'map' is some sort of euphemism for Perspectivism, but even that seems amiss in this context. I've seen a few sources that translate it as 'perpetual', as in three, which might allign his ontology to a more dynamic notion, as Heidegger interprets it, in terms of 'Becomings' and Nietzsche's own professed inspiration from the original 'flux' doctrine of Heraclitus.
The issue is whether these nuances are non sequitur on a page not predominantly dedicated to an engagement with Nietzsche. My main concern was only with the fact that the eternal recurrence is from the outset introduced as being central to Nietzsche's corpus, whereas this is far from unanimously agreed amongst Nietzsche scholars. For example, Brian Leiter has downplayed the significance of the eternal recurrence and argued against its perceived status as a foundation of Nietzsche's 'philosophy' (if such a reduction is even to be attempted). In the spirit of mentioning Nietzsche's influence on a wider discussion about the concept without having to introduce a large number of critical disclaimers off-putting to the non-specialist for the sake of this article, I just think this introduction could be more sensitively worded to avoid inadvertantly advocating a popular but questionable priveliging of the theme. Teasnowy (talk) 15:54, 21 January 2011 (UTC)
Ewige as perpetual revert[edit]
I am glad you at least saved the work of the third and reverted sense, for it is not baffling though not simple enough for the main point. I've simplified and cut out explanations that one quite familiar with will to power may fill in as implied. You may not have noticed, but the first two senses were not written by the author of the third and I quite agree with you that these are either unnecessary or baffling. However, though I find it baffling, I'd not have deleted the second sense, and for the same reason I do not revert it--I have no authority as I do not understand it and I am not certain that it is nonsense, rather, I hope the original author or one that understands it could edit it for easier understanding. Moreover, I do not see how Nietzsche meant the second sense, not having come across any mention of ewige wiederkunft in relation to copies of copies ad infinitum.
BeyondBeyond, 6 September 2005
Well, if it's not understandable then it should definitely be removed from an encyclopedia that's intended for a general audience. I still have trouble with your bit:
- each event that seems unchanging, static, is in fact repeating, in flux, i.e. the prior moment recurs in the (ever) present. The 'same' in "perpetual (or eternal) return of the same" is force (Kraft), the cause and telos (goal).
All this is definitely baffling. What the heck does it mean for the "prior moment to recur in the (ever) present"? Can this not be explained in simple English? Evercat 20:28, 6 September 2005 (UTC)
References in culture[edit]
Hmm. Not sure Fight Club would fit in there. It is interesting though how it starts in "the beginning", then the narrator says he'll explain to us from the beginning, then at the end there's "the beginning" again. Hmm. Suppose that's more like Pulp-Fiction-beginning-with-the-end deal.
What about PKD's "the empire never ended" theory? - That we're all re-playing the roman empire, or something... Actually, I'm reminded of reading reviews of Blade Runner (more theorys/dissertions on "what it is to be human") and one of them said that with art, you can meet the divine one (in this case seeing the actions in the bible replay themselfs (in everyday life)). {sjöar}
- Terminator, yes/no? I think probably no. What about the Craig David song "Seven days"? When I saw it for the first time, my first thought was "Groundhog day". Dessydes 07:46, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
Red Dwarf, the British sci-fi comedy plays with this idea in a few episodes. In the episode "Backwards" the main characters find themselves on a version of Earth where time is running in reverse. Presumably because of the "big crunch" (a reverse Big Bang), which is part of a never ending cycle of expansion and contraction. Also in "Ouroboros", the main character discovers he is his own father through a time loop. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.96.36.199 (talk) 13:40, 31 October 2011 (UTC)
Battlestar Galactica[edit]
There are repeated references to everything occurring has happened, and will happen again. Is this about fate, God, or are they refering to eternal return? - RoyBoy 800 03:49, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
- They are definitely referring to eternal return, and both Cylons and Humans repeat the phrase "All this has happened before, and all this will happen again" numerous times, especially in the first two seasons. Eternal return is, in fact, an underlying theme of the entire show. Chuck Hamilton (talk) 06:30, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
And in mathematics...[edit]
...we have the Poincaré recurrence theorem. Is this article purely philosophical/religious, or is there any scope for adding in a note about this? I've always found it an intriguing idea (although recurrence times are typically longer than the estimated age of the universe). Wooster 17:16, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
- I believe that may be worth mentioning, though I do not know what that is, and I would not limit this page to not include mathematical ideas. BeyondBeyond 23:36, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
- I added a different mathematical proof against eternal recurrance, since it had been forwarded in this exact context, and since it was much simpler to follow than the mathematics of Poincare. I read the Poincare stuff, hoping to understand it enough to include it, but nope . . . I don't have the math. --ThisEye 18:43, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
Moved from article[edit]
I moved the following here because, excepting vandalism, it is perhaps the worst text I have ever seen on Wikipedia. Its content may be extremely interesting, but its meaning is hidden behind abbreviations ("viz.", "i.e."), unnecessary parenthetical inclusions, and jargon (ad infinitum, for example - why not just say, "forever"?). It also needs a citation (I want to see who this interpretation comes from, not just that it exists) I'm not, however, sure that I'm up to the task of cleaning it up:
- One such interpretation is derived from the first word of the German phrase ewige Wiederkunft des Gleichen (usually translated as and limited to eternal recurrence/return of the same,) meaning perpetual or continuous, thus the "perpetual return of the same". The key idea is that, instead of though not contrary to the cosmological hypothesis, viz. events recurring again ad infinitum and eternally, rather each event that seems unchanging, static, is in fact repeating, in flux, i.e. the prior moment (ever) recurs in the present, unless and until it is overpowered. The 'same' in "perpetual (or eternal) return of the same" is force (Kraft), the cause and telos (goal). (See unpublished notes 10:13{11}, 11:35{68},11:38{12}/(WP 1067))
-Seth Mahoney 05:35, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
Use of 'ad infinitum' is standard. I don't think a translation into english is warrented. -Ell
- Please sign your contributions to talk pages by adding -~~~~ at the end.
- Use of ad infinitum may be standard in certain situations, but it certainly isn't standard English. You don't, for example, hear chewing gum commercials saying, "its flavor lasts ad infinitum!" - that is, this article shouldn't just be writing to the philosophy crowd, but to everyone.
- Also, you've (are you the author?) addressed one of the issues here (and not, really, to my satisfaction, though I'm not the final arbiter). What about the others? -Smahoney 16:44, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
<sanock> i have not made a mathmatical proof, though i am sure it can be proven, that there is a finite number of events that can take place, however there is infinate variation of order <sanock>
Proofs against eternal return[edit]
The proof against eternal return states that a system with finite states may not repeat by giving an example of three spinning wheels.
One spins at 1 units/time, one at 2 u/t and one at 1/PI u/t.
PI is not a finite number, so the state of the example system cannot be expressed in finite terms.
Does that make this example irrelevant to a finite universe, and therefore wrong in disproving eternal return? I will try and find evidence of this...
18.104.22.168 06:02, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
- depends what you mean by "finite. Don't confuse infinite extent with infinite subdivisibility (continua, real numbers). 1Z 20:02, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
- Note that "eternal" is different than "infinite." Eternal means "time" or absence of it. Something which is eternal does not have a beginning nor an end by definition. Infinite is just a mental exercise. Since matter cannot be created neither destroyed, but only transformed; then whatever exists, it has existed, you cannot add anything to it or substract to it; thus "infinite" is meaningless. Of course, "finite" is something which is not infinite.. but since "infinite" does not exist in reality but just as a mental abstraction, there is not too much you can say about it..[1] and [2] Best, avyakt7 16:03, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
- 220.127.116.11, here's a different counterexample. Consider the decimal representation of an irrational number. (E.g.: the square root of 2). The digits make up an infinitely long, nonrepeating sequence. Only ten different states are allowed for each element of the sequence. So what we have is a recipe for a ten state system that doesn't 'eternally recur'. The individual states are revisited, but there is no overall pattern to it. 220.127.116.11 11:57, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
I just noticed today that this section was severely truncated by IPSOS on 11 June 2007. Although IPSOS removed a citation to livejournal, he also removed additional content that had been added to the article previously by another contributor at least as far back as January 2007. (There were a couple paragraphs dealing with quantum discretization.) My feeling is, Brown's refutation should have been rightfully removed because of the ephemerality of the source cited, but not the preceding (and pre-existing) material regarding discretization.188.8.131.52 02:11, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
With regard to George Simmel's objection to eternal return, how does "variable speed" among the wheels increase the likelihood of a given iteration repeating? If I flip two coins hoping for matches, the possibility of a match only decreases as I increase the number of coins, and/or the possibility of flip results beyond heads and tails. So it seems that the larger number of speeds for the wheels in Simmel's example, the less the likelihood that any given combination recurs. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 22.214.171.124 (talk) 06:10, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
All of this is irrelevant as the eternal return was never suggested as an objective proposition by Nietzsche, but rather as a thought experiment to bring perspective to one's life. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 18.104.22.168 (talk) 05:01, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
"All truly wise thoughts have been thought already thousands of times; but to make them truly ours, we must think them over again honestly, till they take root in our personal experience." – Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
I don't think he is referring to eternal return here. A.Z. 05:08, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
I removed the reference to Goethe. A.Z. 04:07, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
I do not think that Goethe's quote is asserting the mechanics of eternal recurrence, in itself, but at least it is on par with what Ecclesiastes notions at, I think; at least, I found it helpful. --Iloxias (talk) 00:46, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
With regard to George Simmel's objection to eternal return, how does "variable speed" among the wheels increase the likelihood of a given iteration repeating? If I flip two coins hoping for matches, the possibility of matches only decreases as I increase the number of coins, and/or the possibility of flip results beyond heads and tails. So it seems that the larger number of speeds for the wheels in Simmel's example, the less the likelihood that any given combination recurs. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.108.40.206 (talk) 06:00, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
The science-fiction novel CITIES IN FLIGHT is by James Blish, not David Gerrold. In fact, clicking on the link brings you to the Wikipedia Blish article. CharlesTheBold 21:34, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
Reliable sources for the term dharmic religions?[edit]
Where are the reliable sources that use the term dharmic religions in the context of this article? Dharmic religions is a now deleted obscure neologism and should not be used throughout Wikipedia. Andries 15:55, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
- It is not an obscure neologism. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 17:03, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
- If it is not an obscure neologism then it would be easy to provide multiple reliable sources books, peer reviewed articles etc. I am waiting. I am also waiting for use of the phrase in the context of this article. Andries 17:07, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
- I propose to use the alternative phrase Indian religions. The number of google scholar results for "Indian religions"+"Indian religion" is (45.600 + 84.200) while it is only (492+475) for "dharmic religions" +"dharmic religion" (492+475). See Wikipedia:Deletion_review/Log/2007_September_8. Andries 19:15, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
Question about the Xenosaga Eternal Return citation...[edit]
User:Oni Ookami Alfador: "source is dead link, nevermind that a gamefaqs user-written article hardly qualifies as verifiable or credible" That's rather insulting, don't you think? Especially to those of us who -would- find the same credible. That it is not credible is nothing more than your opinion. Tcaudilllg (talk) 00:22, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
Free will?[edit]
Would you only have free will the first time around and then everytime after that would be the same so wouldn't that mean that there is no free will for times 2,3,4,5,6,7....... Get it? Anyway the idea is terrifiying but still better than what athiests propose(although it is similar).184.108.40.206 11:24, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
- My friend, I don't know what you call "free will" (I refer to my article "Nietzsche and Freedom" with more explanation), but I think it has nothing to do with the subject. I guess you rather mean self-consciousness, but I don't see why the thing you call "choice" could not be multiplicated an infinite number of times? Damn, these people still associate the notion of passing-by, of time flow, with "hey, I imagine many ways for that!" -- well, go on and imagine, but only one will succeed anyway... And well, to be honest I don't think the fact that something is inside a system of interconnections, or is not, changes anything: it is nevertheless fate. TheUgliest (talk) 00:57, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
- Umm, imagine you have a thing called "The World" which consists of some mechanisms and some input. You feed it with a bottle called "Freedom" wherein there is sequentially a number of spheres: thing 534539, thing 139012, 912304 etc. In acts A, B, C etc., the pointer advances (or you take spheres from the bottle). -- Now, as the master of the game, you can either play everything again, that is: re-fill the bottle, set the pointer back to 0, or (in the future worlds) get even more subsequent items from the bottle. It depends on the "Game Master". But still I don't see why would it be impossible to reset everything. TheUgliest (talk) 01:06, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
In answer to the first question, I do think that some terms of the question need to be detailed, but I think that in its context, my answer is no; but, depending on certain definitions, the answer could be yes, no, etc. Could you tell us what it is that the atheists propose in particular. To TheUgliest, it seems that the questioner might agree with what you mean, depending on their own perspective--how "ways of imagination" can be reconciled with "fate" or the "game", etc. I also think that the subject does have some importance in these determinations, not merely referring to them as agents. Whenever I think about this, Hegel always comes to mind with his 'Spirit' of the world, and although he is not a primary source, it is interesting to note his time of writing and all the subsequent commentaries and criticisms that came about him.Iloxias 01:49, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
- It really depends on what you term 'free will' and without going through a big metaphysical discussion, you either get it or you don't. You mention atheism in a bad light, but really it doesn't matter if you LIKE atheism, it is what it is... and HOW you intepret it. If you can look beyond the simple intepretations of things and the autonomous view of consciousness you'll discover a universe of wonder that is just as magical as any idea of believing in a god or gods. I recommend some existential philosophical reading! groovygower (talk) 04:08, 14 January 2013 (UTC)
The Matrix[edit]
For the pop culture section, what about that old guy in the Matrix who basically indicates that the whole Savior thing is cyclical?
- (dummy reply post for dating). Is relevant. Now it's there. ... said: Rursus (mbork³) 10:14, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
But if you think again, would one exist of there was no 2? The concept of "One" is not required at all unless you give birth to the concept of 2. So, look at it once again, "Eternal Recurrence" is really saying that it all exists all the time. There is no 2 and therefore no 1 its all IS. So, if it all exists, perpetually in a cyclical continuum, it all recurrs every round, but there is no round 2 and there fore there is no round 1 either.
Diffult to imagine if you think in terms of graphs of lines to to be drawn in euclidean geometry. Abandon it and see in the minds eye, and you can see it.
The Bhagwat Geeta, a book of knowledge in Hindu Religion, says so: -
"No end, no beggining and no middle, I behold your unlimited and indeterminable form."
Thus, although 2 is not equal to 1, but there is no one if there is no 2; and ER states that there is none. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Avinashmehrotra (talk • contribs) 11:05, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
2 isn't the same person as 1, nor do they repeat everything that they do, they're just similar. It's not the same. The above person's quite sums it up well. groovygower (talk) 04:10, 14 January 2013 (UTC)
Eternal return is actually a fact[edit]
...because passing by is not a fact, only a perspective. I see no thing so absurd as the idea that "time itself goes by". Time does do nothing: because there is no "over-time", wherein it could do anything, infinitely slow, slowly, or medium, or fast, or even infinitely fast! This is all a psychological reality, not a physical reality. If physicists say about time-flow, e.g. in the Einstein theory that it "goes faster here and slower here", it is only a means of saying that observable velocities change...
Time does not go by, neither does life: rather we see life from different perspectives! And of course moment C remembers B quite well and A somewhat well, and yeah, there will be no A' which is like A but in state of mind like C (e.g. remembering everything)... but generally moments are all eternal, all stable. C doesn't "come after B", you only think it is after because in C moment B is well remembered... – It does not matter whether world "physically recurs", because it is already eternalized by the sole fact of its existence. TheUgliest (talk) 01:11, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
Nice explanation, and this itself is perspective. Are you saying eternal recurrence is actually a fact--maybe you should take the content of the explanation to the limit. We are way past Descartes's simple method now; even in our modern times, I think 'gravity', is still a theory, in general at least. Iloxias 01:07, 24 August 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Iloxias (talk • contribs)
- Sounds like next reoccurrence equals this occurrence, which to me sounds like "2 = 1". ... said: Rursus (mbork³) 13:30, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
It's a trick really - you can't say that it is or isnt face because from our point of view, it's neither verifiable nor falsifiable because we are part of the eternal recurrence. We can't step outside and observe the cycle. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Groovygower (talk • contribs) 04:12, 14 January 2013 (UTC)
Eternal return and Politics[edit]
I would like to see some information on how the Eternal return argument has often been used by public leaders in order to defend politically progressive policy decisions. For instance, when something is deemed to be too Conservative, Liberal politicians will say that it is an Eternal return to the past, and that it must be avoided at all costs. This is part of an Anti-Return ideology which claims that History cannot and must not repeat itself. ADM (talk) 09:00, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
- I would recommend reading the article once more. ... said: Rursus (mbork³) 10:09, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
Premise section errors[edit]
Section Premise boldly claims that:
- More philosophical concepts from physics, such as Hawking's "arrow of time", for example, discuss cosmology as proceeding up to a certain point, whereafter it undergoes a time reversal (which, as a consequence of T-symmetry, is thought to bring about a chaotic state due to entropy).
Which is a contradiction according to my understanding of physical time, time is the direction of increased entropy in an asymmetric spacetime 4D space. If the "time reverses" by fundamental nature of time then the entropy will decrease and the end product will be a high degree of organization, not a chaotic state. I believe the section misunderstands Stephen Hawking's research. ... said: Rursus (mbork³) 10:22, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
- Maybe not. Hawkins defines three time concepts. I don't know if they're dependent. ... said: Rursus (mbork³) 10:38, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
Omission of Eternal return across infinite space[edit]
The article currently describes not just Nietzche's notion of the eternal recurrence, but the eternal return as described in Hindu cosmology, Blanqui, and Tegmark. These consider not just infinite time, but spatial infinity. It is factually incorrect that all notions of the eternal return assume finite space and infinite time.
The overview statement in the premise section was reworded to allow for eternal return arguments that rely on assumption of infinite space, as did Blanqui's eternal recurrence paper in 1871, as well as contemporary treatments relying on modern notions of physics such as Max Tegmark's. The adjustment was made but eliminated a description of the finite space- infinite time model that might be desirable to some readers (I don't because the argument was obscure, whereas most people intuitively grasp that in any game of chance, no matter how small the probability of something happening, given infinity, it is going to happen time and again. Anyway, if someone likes the old description, it could be resurrected if adjustments were made to state that it is only one recipe for the finite space infinite time approach and that as described, it happens to be invalidated by modern physics. If the statement is tweaked, allowance should be made that the only probability necessary is that of replicating our existence exactly. It does not require replication of the current state of entire observable universe as the current wording suggests. The goal of the wording appears to be that there is an area of space that is finite, and the existence of the current state of the universe is a finite combination of prior states. Changing it to "observable universe" only begs further questions, so I didn't see an easy way of salvaging it. Maybe someone can do it, I just didn't see how to do it without introducing complexity concerning peripheral details into an overview statement. J JMesserly (talk) 22:23, 29 December 2010 (UTC)
Pink Floyd The Wall[edit]
The Pink Floyd album The Wall is circular as the first song In the Flesh? begins with '... we came in?' and the last song Outside the Wall ends with 'isn't this where...'. I just thought it would be worth mentioning in the popular culture section. JackRendar (talk) 15:46, 24 October 2011 (UTC)
"Premise" is flawed[edit]
Under the "Premise" heading, it states "The basic premise proceeds from the assumption that the probability of a world coming into existence exactly like our own is finite. If either time or space are infinite then mathematics tells us that our existence will recur an infinite number of times." (emphasis added) This is simply not true, and it reminds me of the nonsensical claim that "an infinite number of monkeys typing would eventually produce the complete works of Shakespeare". Mathematics have no bearing on the likelihood or unlikelihood (much less inevitability!) of "our existence...recur(ring) an infinite number of times", and anyone who makes such a claim is going to have to marshal some pretty exceptional evidence that mathematics even have anything to do with the probability of reincarnation, cyclic lives or whatever. None has been provided. Bricology (talk) 02:09, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
- I think somepne misunderstood the article and the multiple definitions of Eternal return... groovygower (talk) 04:15, 14 January 2013 (UTC)
This statement is not incorrect, but it does require both of those sentences to not be in error. Reworded, "The basic premise proceeds from the assumption that the probability of a world coming into existence exactly like our own is finite. If either time or space are infinite then mathematics tells us that our existence will recur an infinite number of times," says "If you, for the moment and for the sake of this proof, choose to at least temporarily believe that the probability of a world like ours coming into existence is anything other than zero, and you also believe that time/space are infinite, then there will be an infinity of other worlds like ours, because infinity times anything other than zero is infinity." Whether or not you accept the premises, i.e. A) the probability of a world like ours coming into existence is finite, and B) space/time are infinite, determines whether or not you believe the conclusion - i.e., that there are infinite worlds like ours. You don't have to accept the premise. However, it is correct to write that if you accept the premise, then you must accept the conclusion. It may be correct that this is the source of some people's belief in an Eternal Return concept. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.108.40.206 (talk) 00:39, 30 October 2013 (UTC)
It is an error to state that if you accept the premise, then you must accept the conclusion because there can be hidden premises on which you disagree. For example, not all infinite series converge at infinity, even though they go on forever; many actually will converge at a finite point, so perhaps the problem is one in which the person is claiming something to be infinite but has not properly laid the groundwork to demonstrate the correctness of their assertion. After all, if the probability of a planet such as ours is 1/2 in one universe BUT the probability changes with each successive universe, such that the probability that our planet will exist is cut in half at each new spawning of a solar system (so in the second solar system, there is a probability that it will be exist is only 1/4 and, in a third universe, it is only 1/8), then this infinite series will converge to 1, meaning that our world is unique, despite the fact that there are an infinite number of solar systems. The hidden premise is that the probabilities must be the same in all solar systems or, at least, not decreasing with each additional solar system. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.8.131.52 (talk) 16:45, 9 September 2016 (UTC) i I understand what you say but there is no reason to assume that probabilities would always decrease with each new universe or with anything else for that matter. For example, if you play on the lottery 100 times in a row, your chances of winning will be exactly the same all 100 times. If (infinite) number of universes exist, they could have different laws of physics, but there could be universes that develop just like ours did. So in some universes the chance of getting a new planet earth may be much smaller or zero, but in others it could be the same or bigger. There is no reason why chances could only decrease given infinity. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:A03F:2C8A:100:6C91:E853:708F:CD49 (talk) 18:54, 22 September 2016 (UTC)
The article on P. D. Ouspensky suggests that he subscribed to the idea of eternal return. There is a link here, banished to the the See Also section, which would suggest that Ouspensky's view was not even representative enough to deserve article space here. Can somebody clear up this anomaly, one way or the other? — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 13:13, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
Yeah Ouspensky believed in eternal return, his version of it included the idea that by conscious effort once could affect the next recurrence. Ouspensky's optimisitic version of eternal return underlies the popular movie Run Lola Run for example. Ouspensky is a major intellectual influence on the modern world and eternal return was one of his main themes so the idea that his view does not deserve article space is bizarre. Jeremy (talk) 02:44, 28 September 2015 (UTC)
Eastern vs. Western Christianity[edit]
While it's true that Western Christianity holds to a linear understanding of time, this is pointedly not true in Eastern traditions of Christianity (such as the Eastern Orthodox), as pointed out here. It'd be worth discussing that in the article, particularly as it relates to Russian culture and philosophy for instance. FiredanceThroughTheNight (talk) 06:06, 18 November 2015 (UTC)
External links modified[edit]
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We all fall into exercise ruts once in a while, so here are some creative ways to pull yourself out: Shake it up! You've been walking the same route every morning for months, and you wonder why you're in a rut. Snap out of it with a change of scenery or activity — or maybe both. Either way, it's time to make a switch. Even if you don't want to make a dramatic change, try running a couple of times a week, then hit the gym to weight-train or take a class on the remaining days. Your rut will be history, and you'll get fit faster as well (any time your body has to adapt to a new activity or exercise, it burns more calories and builds different muscles).
Buddy up. Studies show that people who pair up with partners are more likely to work out. You don't have to have a partner every time you work out, but try to make a date once or twice a week and see if it works. Most people report that their workouts are more fun and the time goes by in a flash.
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Join a club.. We're not talking about a health club, but rather a club for people who take their workouts into the great outdoors. Hiking, trail running, mountain climbing, mountain biking, and rowing are just a few of the choices out there. How about a team sport to bring out that competitive spirit? Working out with a group can help you stay motivated, and new friends can help get your mind off tough training.
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Just a little insight into what goes on inside this head of mine. Some good, some mad but always entertaining!
Friday, 5 August 2011
Before/After: Award Winning Red Carpet Looks
26 comments:
OMG you're an inspiration, truly.ReplyDelete
Wow! That's all I can say.ReplyDelete
I have decided I am going to kidnap you so my face can wear your masterpieces everyday! xx
(I mean this in the nicest possible way in case you get scared)
@Strawberry Blonde: Aww thanks hon, I love youf or all your encouragement! Thank you. xxReplyDelete
@Madame Gourmand: Haha don't worry, it's taken as a compliment. Thanks xx
You are the maestro of makeup!! WOWOWOW!ReplyDelete
@Jamilla Camel: Aww thanks Jamilla, you're always so supportive, thank you! xxReplyDelete
Sara looks completely different! xxReplyDelete
@kia: I hope that's a good thing! Hehe. xReplyDelete
How do you use the Lanolips ointment on the face?ReplyDelete
@-RS: Hehe sorry I should have been clearer, I used it on her lips but you really could use it on the face as well if you have any super dry areas. On this occasion I used it only on her lips. xReplyDelete
I love that you contrasted with the silver dress, very high fashion-y. And I die for a dark lip.ReplyDelete
@RaeRae: Thanks lovely! I am glad you approve and isn't that lip colour gorgeous?! I love it and shame it was limited edition. XReplyDelete
Stunning as always. What beautiful models!ReplyDelete
@Charlie: Thanks lovely! Welcome home, you've been missed! Thanks for the comment! xReplyDelete
Amazing.wat a metamorphoses!! amazing....I love the deep berry touch and the mystical vibes......so mysteriousReplyDelete
@Neeraj Navare: Thanks Neeraj! Glad you like it. xReplyDelete
Absolutely love both of these looks and love how the first model clearly loves her look too!love the way the eyes look defined but with an amazing softness too, they both look so polished and perfect for the red carpet.love it love it xReplyDelete
@Wendy: Yay thanks Wendy! Funy how people behave differently with makeup on isn't it? She seemed to have more confidence than when she wasn't made up. Thanks again for your lovely comment! xReplyDelete
Thank you :) xxReplyDelete
Beautiful - I bet these ladies felt like a million bucks after you worked on them. :)ReplyDelete
@Kharina: Thanks hon, they were lovely weren't they? Thank you! xxReplyDelete
Both are beautiful but I really love the second model, probably because her colouring is more similar to mine. The eyes and lips are so unexpected yet work beautifully together, amazing! xReplyDelete
@Lipstick Luvvie: You have such a great eye for detail! That's exactly what I was trying to achieve Jen! Thanks! xxReplyDelete
Flipping amazing what a huge transformation on both the models. I have just been catching up on your posts. I love the before and afters they are my favourite xReplyDelete
@nicoletta: Hi! I'm gald you like the before/afters. I was wondering whether people were getting bored of seeing them or not! LOL. Thank you for the lovely comments as always! xReplyDelete
Wow! WHAT a transformation!ReplyDelete
@Rose: Yay thank Rose, glad you like it! xReplyDelete


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AL JAY (03-07-2011), anegib (03-07-2011), doreen (02-07-2011), Pink shoes (13-08-2011), slodgedad (04-07-2011), tizzywizzy (03-07-2011), TOTO 99 (09-08-2011)
I will update this page when i can and will keep adding different helpful topics for the Tenerife Forum
First How To is on Main User Stuff,All of this you may know what it is ,but are you using it to maximise its potential
My Public Profile
What is the Public Profile Page?
Every member has a publicly viewable profile page. This page includes information provided by the member, either during the registration process or later on via the User Control Panel.
There are a number of ways to view a member's profile. Whenever you see a member's name, clicking on it will usually take you to view their profile page.
The members list allows you to browse all registered members, and quickly click through to public profiles.
When logged in, you can also view your own public profile by logging into the forums and clicking on your username shown in the header at the top of the page.
You can also go straight to a profile if you know the username of the member by typing in the following into your web browser: http://www.example.com/member.php?username=
What's on the Public Profile Page?
The public profile lists information about the member under the 'About Me' tab. It also includes statistical information, such as the number of posts they have made and their registration date. This information is shown under the 'Statistics' tab.
Other information includes a list of Friends , their profile picture (if set by the member), and a list of members who have recently visited the profile page.
A list of the members' albums and Group memberships are also shown.
What are Visitor Messages?
Visitor messages are publicly viewable messages posted on member profile pages. To post a message, click on the 'Visitor messages' tab, and use the form at the top of the section. You will only be able to use certain formatting in these messages, as described underneath the edit box. This message will be viewable by all visitors to this profile, including guest users and search engine robots if the administrator has allowed this. To communicate privately with a member, send a Private Message instead.
Visitor messages can be edited or deleted by site moderators or the member who owns the profile. If you see a visitor message that is not appropriate, you can alert the moderators by clicking on the 'Report' link. The 'View Conversation' link allows you to view all visitor messages between the member and the owner of the profile.
The Settings Control Panel
The Settings Control Panel is where you control your personal settings, options and preferences. To visit the Settings Control Panel, you must have first registered on the forums. Once logged in, click on 'Settings' in the header bar in the top-right corner of the page.
The Settings main page will list any new notifications, including new private messages and pending friend requests. Additional pages and forms allow you to control:
Your email address and password
Privacy Settings
Custom public profile settings
Private messages
Subscribed threads and forums
Friends and Contacts
Changing User Details
How do I change my user details?
You can change your account information using the User Control Panel. For basic profile details (including your email address and password), click on the 'Edit Your Details' option from within the User CP. This page allows you to set a number of required and optional details, some of which will be displayed on your public profile. With the exception of your email address, do not enter information that you do not wish to be publicly viewable.
Signatures, Avatars and Profile Pictures
What are signatures?
'Signatures' contain information that you want to include at the bottom of all your posts. This might include pictures, links to your site(s), quotes, etc.
What are avatars?
Avatars are small images that people use to identify or distinguish themselves to other forum members. In some cases the administrator will not allow avatars or only allow them for specific members. The administrator can also provide some stock avatars people can use, or they can allow members to upload their own custom avatars from their own computers. These avatars will be displayed as part of the user info in posts, as well as in the public profile.
What are profile pictures?
Profile Pictures are photos members can upload that will display in their public member profile. This option may or may not be enabled by the administrator.
How do I set signatures, avatars and profile pictures?
You can set and change your signature, avatar and profile picture in the User Control Panel (providing the administrator has made these options available).
For signatures, click on 'Edit Signature' under the 'Settings and Options' area of the navigation bar within the User CP.
To select an existing or upload a new avatar, click on 'Edit Avatar'.
To upload a profile picture, click on 'Edit Profile Picture' in the 'Your Profile' section.
Other Settings and Options
What do the other settings do?
In your User CP, there is a section under Settings & Options named 'Edit Options'.
Login & Privacy: set your
'Invisible Mode' - sets whether or not other members can see if you are online and what page you are viewing
'Show Reputation Level' - shows your reputation level on posts if this option is enabled by the administrator
'Allow vCard Download' - sets whether or not to allow other members to download a vCard containing your email address and username.
Messaging & Notification - options include:
'Receive Email' - whether or not you want to receive emails from other Members and administrators
'Default Thread Subscription Mode' - how you want to be notified about new posts in threads to which you have subscribed
'Private Messaging' - control how you want Private Messaging to work for your account
'Visitor Messaging' - control how you want Visitor Messaging to work for your account
Thread Display Options - these include:
'Visible Post Elements' - whether or not you want to be able to see Signatures, Avatars and Images in posts
'Thread Display Mode' - how you want to view threads by default (more info available here)
'Number of Posts to Show Per Page'
'Default Thread Age Cut Off' - the time period for threads to be displayed - threads older than this age will be hidden
Date & Time Options - these include:
'Time Zone' - your local geographical time zone offset from GMT/UTC
'Start of the Week' - for the Calendar.
Miscellaneous Options include:
'Message Editor Interface' - This option allows you choose what kind of editor you will use when posting messages. Your choices include a basic text-only editor, a standard editor with clickable formatting controls, or a full WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get) editor that will show your formatting as you type.
'Forum Style' - only available if there is more than one style (or 'skin') available and the administrator has enabled this selection
'Forum Language' - only available if there is more than one Language enabled. This will change the language in which all controls and board messages will be shown. It will not translate members' posts
Profile Page Customization
How do I customize my profile page?
You may be able to edit the design and styling of your public profile page (if this is enabled by the board administrator) via the 'Customize Profile' section within the User CP. You can adjust the color scheme, fonts, borders and layout of elements on the page.
You can also use images as background for various sections of you profile. First you will need to upload the background images to an album you have created (?). Background images can be sourced only from albums defined as public, or 'profile' type. Images in private albums cannot be used.
Last edited by COL NIL SATIS; 02-07-2011 at 22:52. Reason: merged double posts
Evertonians are Born, not Manufactured
We don't choose, we are chosen
those who understand need no explanation
those that don't understand don't matter.
AL JAY (03-07-2011), anegib (03-07-2011), doreen (02-07-2011), Pink shoes (13-08-2011), slodgedad (04-07-2011), tizzywizzy (03-07-2011), TOTO 99 (09-08-2011)
kin ell Col.. i read that so quickly....
Lol guys ,these will be quite long posts but they will all be worth reading !!
Added after 3 minutes:
How to Main User stuff continued
First How To is on Main User Stuff,All of this you may know what it is ,but are you using it to maximise its potential
What is a Group?
A Group is a group of people usually with a particular interest or something else in common. It provides a way of communicating between members as well as sharing photos or other images.
You can get to the list through 'Group Memberships' section on your public profile
The Groups list page displays all groups that have been created. You can list the groups by the number of members, messages or pictures, the group name, when the group was created or by the date of the most recent message posted. You can use the controls provided to search for a group.
How do I join a group?
To join a group, click the group title then click 'Join Group'. When you have joined a group, its name will be shown in your public profile. You must be a logged-in, registered member to join groups.
Can I create my own Group?
As a registered member, you can create your own Group (providing the administrator allows this). Go to the groups page and click 'Create A New Group'. Complete the title and description for your group then select the type. There are three types of groups:
Public - open to everyone. There is no restriction on who can join or who can post messages to it
Invite Only - require an invitation to be sent to join them. Invitations can only be sent by the group creator or forum moderators and administrators. Invitations are sent by clicking 'Pending & Invited Members' at the bottom of the page for that individual group
Moderated - open to everyone to join but messages need to be moderated before they will appear. They are moderated by the group creator and the site moderators and administrators
Friends and Contacts
What is the difference between a friend and a contact?
A friendship is a mutual, two-way relationship between two users. It is initiated by one user and accepted by the other.
A contact is a one-way friendship. This could be where the other person does not accept the friendship, a friendship request is pending, or you do not wish to be friends at this time but want to show them as a contact only.
Where is list of friends and contacts displayed?
Your friends and contacts are displayed on the 'Contacts and Friends' page in your User CP. Your friends are also displayed in your profile page.
How can I request a friend, accept a friend or break a friendship?
There are two ways to request a friendship with someone.
The easiest way is to view the profile page of the person you want to become friends with and click the 'Befriend' link.
The other way is to add the person to your contacts first. Then from your 'Contacts and Friends' page ask to be their friend by checking the box next to their name labelled 'Friend'. Next, save the page.
If you know the username of the person you want to be friends with you can send a friend request using the box provided and clicking 'Add Friend'.
To accept a friend, go to your 'Contacts and Friends' page. At the bottom of the page you will see a list of pending requests. Check the box for the requests you wish to accept then check the 'Accept' button and save the changes. If you do not wish to be friends then select 'Reject' instead.
Breaking a friendship can be done in three ways.
From your 'Contacts and Friends' page, uncheck the box for friend for the particular person and save the changes. If you no longer wish them to be a contact either, uncheck both boxes for that person.
In your 'Profile Page', click 'Friends' and then click 'Break Friendship' next to the user's name.
In the other person's profile, click 'Friends' then find your username and click 'Break Friendship'.
Albums and Pictures
How do I use albums?
As a member, you can create Albums of images that are linked to your public profile. Albums can be created by visiting the User Control Panel, and clicking on the 'Pictures & Albums' link, and then clicking on 'Add Album'.
Each album can have a title ('Joe's Holiday to Nepal'), a description ('A bunch of photos from my recent adventure') and can be of three different types: Public, Private or Profile.
Public albums can be viewed by anyone
Private albums can only be viewed by site staff (moderators, administrators) and your Friends and Contacts (info)
Profile albums are viewable only by you. However, you can use the images to customize your public profile (info)
How do I upload pictures?
Once you've created an album you can upload images to it. Simply view the album and click on 'Upload Pictures'.
You'll have the option to give each picture a caption, and to set one image as the Album cover, which will be displayed on the public profile. To delete an album or edit the title, description or album type, click on 'Edit Album'. To delete an image, or to edit a caption or change the album cover, click on 'Edit Pictures'.
All members who have access to your album images can comment on them, in a similar way to Visitor Messages (more info). You can delete any image comments from your albums, and report inappropriate messages to moderators.
When you have uploaded a picture, you can place it in your posts by using the BB code text that is displayed below the image when you view it at full size.
Private Messages
If the administrator has enabled the Private Messaging system, registered members may send each other private messages.
How do I send Private Messages?
Private messages work a little like email, but are limited to registered members of this forum. You may be able to include BB code, smilies and images in private messages that you send.
You may send a private message to a member of this forum by clicking the 'Send A Private Message' link in the private messaging section of your user control panel (more info), or by clicking the 'Send a Private Message' link in the drop down menu that appears in a member's posts when you click on their username.
When you send a message, you have the option to save a copy of it in your 'Sent Items' folder.
How do I work with Private Message Folders?
By default, you will have two folders in your private message area. These are the 'Inbox' and the 'Sent' Items folders.
The 'Inbox' folder contains any new messages you receive. It allows you to view all the messages you have received, along with the name of the person who sent it, and the date and time it was sent.
The 'Sent Items' folder contains a copy of any messages that you have sent, where you have specified that you wish to keep a copy for future reference.
You can create additional folders for your messages by clicking the 'Edit Folders' link.
Each folder has a set of message controls which allow you to select messages, then either move them to one of your custom folders, or delete them. Once you have selected your messages, you can choose the following options in the 'Selected Messages' box at the bottom of the list:
Move to Folder
Mark as Read
Mark as Unread
Download as XML
Download as CSV
Download as TEXT
You will need to periodically delete old messages, as the administrator has probably set a limit to the number of private messages you can have in your folders. If you exceed this number, you will not be able to send or receive new messages until you delete some old ones.
If you would like to keep a record of your messages before you delete them, you can use any of the 'Download as..' options listed above to take a copy and store them on your own computer.
Whenever you read a message, you will have the option to reply or forward it to another member of the forum. You may also have the ability to forward that message to multiple members of your contact list.
How do I track messages?
When you send a new private message, you may have the option to request a read-receipt. This lets you check whether or not a message has been read by its recipient. To do this, go to the 'Message Tracking' page.
This page is divided into two sections: unread and read messages.
The unread messages section shows all messages that you have sent with a read-receipt request, that have not yet been read by their recipient.
The read messages section shows all messages you have sent with a receipt request that have been read and acknowledged by their recipient. The time that the message was read is also shown.
You may choose to end the tracking on any message you choose by selecting it and clicking the 'End Tracking' button.
When you receive a message with a read-receipt request, you may have the option to read the message while denying the read-receipt request. To do this, simply click the 'Deny Receipt' link rather than the title of the message, if it appears.
Thats nearly all of the main user stuff sorted
Last edited by COL NIL SATIS; 02-07-2011 at 23:10. Reason: merged double posts
Evertonians are Born, not Manufactured
We don't choose, we are chosen
those who understand need no explanation
those that don't understand don't matter.
AL JAY (02-07-2011), doreen (02-07-2011), Harmonicaman (02-07-2011), imablue (02-07-2011), slodgedad (02-07-2011), tizzywizzy (03-07-2011)
Subscriptions on The Tenerife Forum
What are subscriptions?
Subscriptions are a way of keeping track of different threads or forums. You can choose how you are notified about updates - for example by having them listed in your User CP and receiving email updates for each one.
How do I subscribe to a thread or forum?
To subscribe to a forum, click the 'Forum Tools' link above the list of threads then select 'Subscribe to Forum'. You will then have the option to choose the subscription mode for this forum. If the forum that you are subscribing to has any child forums (forums within a forum) then your subscription will be extended to these automatically.
To subscribe to a thread, click the 'Thread Tools' link at the top of the list of posts then click 'Subscribe to Thread'. You can then choose the subscription mode that you wish to use for that thread.
What subscription modes are available?
There are a number of different forum subscription modes available.
No Email Notification - lists the subscription in your User CP only. You do not receive any notifications about new posts or threads in the forum.
Daily Email Notification - sends one email a day with the new and updated threads in the forum and any sub-forums. If there are no new or updated threads in the forum or its sub-forums then you will not receive an email.
Weekly Email Notification - sends one email per week in the same way as the Daily Email Notification.
Thread Subscriptions have the same options as forum subscriptions with the following additional option:
Instant Email Notification - sends an email as soon as a new post is added to the thread. This is not sent for every reply and will only be sent once until you revisit the forums.
How do I manage Subscriptions and Folders?
Thread subscriptions can be sorted into folders for easy management. You can create as many folders as you wish by going to 'Edit Folders' in the 'Subscribed Threads' section of your User CP. To add a new folder, enter the folder name into one of the blank boxes and save the page. To delete a folder, delete the folder name. Editing a folder is done by simply editing the folder name in the list.
You can also manage your individual subscriptions by clicking 'List Subscriptions' under 'Subscribed Threads' in your User CP. Here you can select which subscriptions you wish to manage and delete them, move them to another folder, or change their subscription type.
Forum subscriptions are not managed through the List Subscriptions page and are shown on the User CP page where they contain the option to unsubscribe from the forum.
Evertonians are Born, not Manufactured
We don't choose, we are chosen
those who understand need no explanation
those that don't understand don't matter.
AL JAY (03-07-2011), slodgedad (04-07-2011), tizzywizzy (03-07-2011)
How to do this and that on the Tenerife Forum
Seeing as we have a new .org address here at the Tenerife forum i still see people asking how to embed these You tube videos etc onto the forum,i saw that they were a very popular feature on the old Tenerife forum,so thought it best to update all members on how to do it.!!!!
Here is how
How to embed You tube vids or other supported Videos onto the Tenerife Forum.org ...
Supported videos include
More may follow as Vbull updates or BB Codes are added....
To do this simply click the icon its above the post area 2nd from the right ^^^^ up top ,and you will be prompted with ...Enter your video clip URL below..all you have to do is copy paste your you tube url into the box and click OK....
The url is at the very top of the page ..it'll look like this
once you click and put your url in the vid will show
Videos on You tube may be disabled by the broadcaster from time to time,these will not show and you will see a (disabled by broadcaster) message on the video...99% will however will show...
Vimeo,Dailymotion,Google and especially facebook now are massive in Videos,so get involved and get them Vids posted ...hope this helps you guy's out ...
More How to items will be posted soon guys,so all the new www.tenerife-forum.org members know whats what
Again if you have any issues adding these feel free to send me a Pm and i will help out when i can!!!
When adding posts it is always advisable to Preview your post first before clicking submit...!!
Evertonians are Born, not Manufactured
We don't choose, we are chosen
those who understand need no explanation
those that don't understand don't matter.
I seem to be having a problem posting a new thread..on the old forum there was a blue button at the top left hand side of the page saying new thread. But i can´t find any way to do it on this page! Could it be because i´m in an internet cafe? Please help! Thanks X
At the top of the page, click on "Forum" button (2nd one from the left). Scroll down to category you want and click on it. Click on "New Thread" button, give a title and away you go...
COL NIL SATIS (10-08-2011), missSJ (10-08-2011), slodgedad (13-08-2011)
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Evertonians are Born, not Manufactured
We don't choose, we are chosen
those who understand need no explanation
those that don't understand don't matter.
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To clear history:
From the home screen, tap Safari.
At the bottom of the screen, tap the Bookmarks icon.
In the lower left, tap Clear.
Tap Clear History.
Evertonians are Born, not Manufactured
We don't choose, we are chosen
those who understand need no explanation
those that don't understand don't matter.
Harmonicaman (13-08-2011), slodgedad (13-08-2011)
Please click the "Report Post" button under any post which may breach our terms of use.


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Col de Grosse Pierre, at kilometre 150, is not unknown to the riders.
Col de Grosse Pierre, at kilometre 150, is not unknown to the riders.
Climbed since 1913, when WWI hero Lucien Petit-Breton was first at the top, it has not been ridden that often, even though the race took it in 2012, but on a far less demanding portion. Jean Alavoine (1914), José Perez Llacer (1952), Rudi Altig (1969), Bernard Vallet (1979) and Chris Anker Sorensen (2012) were the other men to ride it in the lead. This year, Thierry Gouvenou added a much steeper section which might upset the riders who did not check it.
Moreover, its location on the course, only 11 km from the finish line, could make it more crucial than usual, especially after the little known Col des la Croix des Monats at kilometre 142.
"The road is rather narrow and very steep. The descent towards Gerardmer is long. It's a great climb, and it will surprise some," said Alberto Contador and Tinkoff-Saxo team director Phliippe Mauduit.


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Martin, a PhD student in mathematics, enrolls at Oxford in the hope of meeting his mentor, Professor Seldom. The young man manages to find lodging at Mrs. Eagleton's but in this house a stifling atmosphere prevails due to the landlady's attitude. Indeed Mrs. Eagleton, who happens to be a friend of Seldom's, is a haughty and unsympathetic woman who also stifles her daughter Beth. At the university, things do not fare much better as Martin is put in his place by his idol during one of Seldom's lectures. But his private life changes for the best as he starts an affair with Lorna, a beautiful girl he met during a game of squash. One night Seldom and Martin who find themselves at Mrs. Eagletons's discover her dead body. They are interrogated by the police. Soon afterwards they decide to lead their own private investigation…
Download The Oxford Murders
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text: Off topic but being a hockey fan had to post. Ilya Kovalchuck the NHL's most sought after free agent chooses Newark and the Devils over the bright lights and sunshine of Los Angeles Kings. Who would of thought Newark trumps LA, well for one day at least. I know off topic but i'm stoked for surfing and hockey! Any hockey fans in here?


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8 Properties
Overview of Lake Lucina
Lake Lucina Jacksonville is a neighborhood centrally located around the elementary school of the same name. It's known as a mixed use community with schools, libraries, shopping, restaurants, and residential areas all within walking distance of one another. As a centrally located neighborhood, Lake Lucina is close enough to all the downtown activity yet has that close-knit feel that appeals to young families, professionals, and people who enjoy getting together with their friends and neighbors. If you're looking for a vibrant and growing community in which you can relax and have plenty of fun while having access to the beaches and all the culture you could want, then Lake Lucina is a great choice to rent your next apartment.
Lake Lucina Jacksonville Apartments & Rentals
The average monthly rent for one bedroom apartments in Lake Lucina Jacksonville is $525. The average monthly rent for a two bedroom apartment is $700 and the average price of a three bedroom unit is $850 per month. The majority of apartments in Lake Lucina Jacksonville offer amenities such as air conditioning and ceiling fans, on-site swimming pools, a playground for the kids and wireless high speed internet access.
Dining & Entertainment in Lake Lucina, FL
Whether you like to get outdoors or catch the latest concert or sporting event, you'll never lack for things to do when you move to Lake Lucina Jacksonville. The community offers a nice mix of shopping and restaurants with a casual atmosphere as well as fine dining. Lake Lucina is right across from the Jacksonville University campus where there are a wide variety of student performances If you like Cuban food, you'll find many good options in the area. Just a short drive away into downtown Jacksonville, you'll be able to enjoy cultural attractions such as the Times-Union Center for the Performing Arts and the smaller but equally popular Players by the Sea at Jacksonville Beach. Atlantic Beach Experimental Theatre and Orange Park Community Theatre. The annual Blessing of the Fleet and many other festivals take place throughout the year.
Pet Friendly Apartments in Lake Lucina Jacksonville
The majority of rental units in Lake Lucina are friendly to pets. Most complexes limit residents to two companion animals per unit and place limits on the size and breed of the pet. You'll likely need to pay an non-refundable pet deposit when signing your lease. To keep your companion animal healthy, make an appointment with a local veterinarian such as Merrill Animal Clinic or Fort Caroline Animal Clinic. Dependable groomers such as Petco will help keep your pet looking good and you can pick up all the supplies your dog or cat needs while you wait. Take your dog on a visit to the local park, such as Lake Lucina Elementary Park, where dogs are generally welcome.
Lake Lucina Jacksonville Commuting Options
Jacksonville offers two options for mass transit, including regional bus lines and a downtown people mover. Jacksonville University also has an on-campus transit program for students. Because of the limited hours and runs of the mass transit options, most people choose to drive to work. Plan on an average commute time of about 30 minutes if you drive during peak rush hour to and from downtown Jacksonville.
Schools in Lake Lucina Jacksonville
School aged children in Lake Lucina are served by the Duval County Public Schools. Local public schools include Lake Lucina Elementary and Terry Parker High School. Charter schools include River City Science Academy, which offers both elementary and high school options. Private schools within the area include Hendricks Day School and Riverside Presbyterian Day School. There are many universities within walking distance as well.


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See Beyoncé's Wedding Dress (Finally!) In "I Was Here" Video
It feels like Beyoncé and Jay-Z have been married since the beginning of time, so it's hard to believe it was only three years ago that they tied the knot. The undisputed reigning king and queen of hip hop and pop, respectively, share a look back at their wedding day in Beyonce's brand new music video, "I Was Here." Those of us who covet Bey's style mourned the hush-hush ceremony, given that we would never see photos of the bride — and, more importantly, her dress. But the new video shows all that and more! A brief shot shows the beaming bride in a stunning strapless gown with a breathtaking train and, unsurprisingly, a bit of cleavage. Oh, Bey! Check out the video for this glimpse, not to mention a behind-the-scenes look at the diva's life. [TooFab]


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Toyota and Microsoft have a new concept car that aims to reduce driver distractions before the driver even gets behind the wheel. The Driver Awareness Research Vehicle (DAR-V) on display at the 2013 Los Angeles Auto Show this week uses the key fob in combination with Microsoft's Kinect technology, allowing voice and gestures to identify people and providing them with information while driving. The system also will improve driver safety.
The technology displays information on the car's side window when the driver approaches, including updates on traffic and weather; route details such as nearby gas stations; low-gas-level alerts; and even personal appointments and daily schedules customized for the driver. By providing easy access to that information before driving, the hope is that drivers will be less likely to get distracted behind the wheel, thereby reducing the chance of a collision, which could cause injury as well as increase auto insurance rates.
Because the system can identify individuals, there are numerous other applications. For example, it can create custom features for children entering the car, such as games to see how fast they can buckle their seat belt.
Tara Baukus Mello writes the cars blog as well as the weekly Driving for Dollars column, providing practical financial advice for consumers as well as insight into the latest developments in the automotive world. Follow her on Facebook here or on Twitter: @SheDrives.


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Jet fuel prices are soaring, capital markets are drying up, Western economies at best are stalled and defense budgets are under threat as shrinking tax bases swell national debts to unsustainable levels. But you won't find many prophets of doom among the top aerospace executives gathered here for the 2008 Farnborough International show.
The air of backlog-fueled optimism seems hard to reconcile with the grim tidings to be found in each day's financial news. So is the industry deluding itself over prospects for the next few years? On the eve of this week's show AIN asked three independent financial experts for a reality check.
The consensus among them seemed to be that the industry isn't in complete denial and does have valid grounds for optimism. At the same time, there are real grounds for concern too.
"Perception [of a downturn] has filtered through to [aerospace and air transport] companies and stock prices are now at a post-9/11 low," said Alex Hamilton, senior analyst with New York-based investment bank Jesup & Lamont. "But the reality is not as bad. People are losing sight of [the industry's] good fundamentals. There are seven-year backlogs and two major new aircraft coming into the market [the Airbus A350 and the Boeing 787]. Commercial aerospace is driven by global [airline] traffic, but much of the macro-economic news has been U.S.-centric in terms of oil prices, the weak dollar and recession. The fact is we haven't seen recession worldwide and Asian forecasts are still going up."
Airlines Get Leaner
Even with oil priced above $140 per barrel, flying is still relatively affordable in many markets, argued Hamilton. "Even U.S. airlines are in the best shape they have been in because they have stripped out costs and have high utilization rates. Fuel has gone from being 15 percent of all costs to 30 percent, and this is pushing airlines to take less fuel efficient aircraft out of service. This is good for aerospace."
So what does all of this mean for the financial community's attitude toward aviation and its appetite for further mergers and acquisitions (M&A), which have been a powerful vehicle for consolidation in recent years? Hamilton acknowledged that the purchase prices for aerospace firms up for sale is probably not as high this year as last, but he reckons that values are holding up fairly well, apparently because not everyone is convinced that the current trading cycle has peaked yet. By way of example, he pointed to BE Aerospace's recent acquisition of Honeywell's spares distribution business and suggested that the buyer is essentially gambling on continued strong sales in the aftermarket, which could be diminished by lower airliner utilization rates.
"It does appear that we will still have good short-term earnings," concluded Hamilton. "Investors are trying to look at 2009 and beyond. But the [stock] market is going through some repricing and there could be a change in investor appetite."
In Hamilton's view the much-heralded credit crunch has yet to impact aerospace's ability to raise capital. "The [loan] rates haven't really changed," he stated. "Most companies have a lot of cash and bonds are even better rated now. The only issue was that Eclipse Aviation had to go overseas [i.e. outside the U.S. to find new investors]."
Michael Richter, the newly-appointed, U.S.-based managing director and co-head of financial group Lazard's aerospace and defense investment banking group, also took the view that the industry's glass is more half full than half empty.
"Manufacturers feel above it [the economic downturn] because of the over-stuffed order books," he commented. "Orders from international carriers continue to be strong, unlike [those from operators] in markets such as the U.S. While fuel costs present new challenges [for all operators], markets like China, the Middle East and India present very significant market forces."
Richter maintained that there have been no significant airliner order cancellations, but conceded that these have to be considered a possibility–especially if fuel costs continue to rise and the U.S. dollar remains weak, since these factors could reduce air travel, at least in Western countries. "If we do see cancellations, there will be a trickle through [in terms of reduced income for airframers and suppliers]," he told AIN.
Effects of Credit Crunch
In Richter's view, the aerospace industry has not been immune from the credit squeeze. "This has clearly impacted the industry but not as much as might have been expected," he said. "The underlying strength of the business is still there. Strong order books create earnings predictability and enhance company value."
The sector's strong order books have also fuelled M&A activity with investors eager to get a piece of the action in what has been a fast-growth sector. However, Richter added the caveat that aerospace firms that are not achieving such impressive earnings could find themselves struggling to get fresh capital for investments and may therefore find themselves being forced into mergers or becoming unwelcome takeover targets.
"Capital is available but not to the same extent," explained Richter. "In the heydays, companies could get six times their leverage or better and this has gone away. Now they might still get [four] or 5 times leverage, so really it is closer to pre-bubble norms [i.e. to rates that were available before aerospace's latest boom period].
"We have seen a reduction from peak volumes in terms of number and dollar value of [M&A] deals," Richter added. "This is especially the case with mega-deals due to the lack of credit for highly-leveraged buy-outs, but the middle sector still very healthy."
Also very healthy, according to Richter, is the defense sector. Regardless of future combat requirements in Iraq and Afghanistan, he predicted that the U.S. and other leading militaries will continue to make large investments in long-term, high-technology programs in fields such as command, control, communications, computers and intelligence. "It is a tale of two cities; the strategic areas will still receive funding and support and the others will be cut," he said.
Remaining competitive in today's shifting climate remains one of the biggest challenges for established western leaders in aerospace. "Companies in both Europe and America are being forced to be as lean and efficient as possible," concluded Richter. "They should be able to make up for the financial shocks that have hit the system [such as the weak dollar and the credit crunch]. They need to continue to weather the storm because there are many shocks, and they are sustained and significant."
Paul Edwards, the London-based head of aerospace and defense investment banking with Jefferies International, told AIN that while the industry's continued optimism isn't without foundation, the rosy prognosis may not prove to have staying power. He believes that the impact of economic downturn could yet have a delayed and negative effect on the sector.
Long-term Implications
On the commercial air transport side, many airlines are still insulated from the oil price shock by having hedged prices. Future hedged pricing now has to be negotiated on the basis of oil that has effectively doubled in price in barely a year.
"Sales have still been increasing simply because of the momentum of airline growth, but if the oil price stays where it is there will be long-term implications for the sector," said Edwards.
In his view, U.S. carriers are more vulnerable to these economic forces than those in emerging markets like Asia and the Middle East, where state-backed sovereign wealth funds are increasingly giving financial stability to local companies. At the same time, the so-called legacy carriers are likely to find it harder to endure tough times than the better-established low-cost carriers, which are much leaner to start with in cost terms and have different expectations in terms of profit margins.
"The [airliner] order intake is already lower this year than last year," said Edwards. He pointed to the fact that, as of the first week of July, Airbus has had 35 cancelled orders in 2008, compared to one at Boeing [although this total appears not to take into account 65 A320s that had been ordered by U.S. carrier Skybus before it ceased trading in April]. Nonetheless, the world's top two airframers have still logged some 1,000 new orders between them this year so far.
"The financial community already has priced in a degree of downturn [in terms of share values] and stocks are off peak from their position early to mid last year," said Edwards. He explained that the market's M&A appetite is still very hearty, but now there is less private equity involved. In his opinion, this is because with credit only now available on less attractive terms, private equity groups are bidding less aggressively and are being more selective in which firms they target. The good news for cash-rich aerospace firms looking to expand is that prices are softening.
"For deals above $1 billion it is more difficult from a credit perspective," said Edwards. "Debt is still available but you have to do more work to get lenders on board." This means more presyndication of debt in which banks spread their risks before concluding loans, rather than doing it later as was a contributory factor in the sub-prime mortgage debacle, and also there is more rigorous due diligence.
Edwards maintained that for European aerospace firms, the weakness of the dollar against the euro will continue to be a serious short-term headache, because most of them are locked into dollar-priced contracts with Airbus and Boeing. And, these companies now have a much worse situation when it comes to hedging against currency losses. In the longer term, he predicted that the suppliers will increasingly shift their cost bases into dollar-based economies.
The Jefferies executive concluded that while a downturn in demand has long been forecast for 2009, it is now open to question whether higher-than-expected oil price rises and the prospect of an even tighter squeeze on credit could mean that this turns out to be deeper than anticipated and whether worse could be to come in 2011 and 2012.


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Here is a fan interview with Jaever Santos. Jaever is known as Terry in Power Rangers: Super Samurai "He Ain't Heavy Metal, He's My Brother" episode. We would like to thank Jaever for taking the time to answer these questions.
Jaever's Official Youtube
Fun Facts
Fav food(s):
As a Filipino kid, my favourite foods would have to be whatever my mother cooks.
Fav drink(s):
Since they don't have it as much in New Zealand, I love cherry cola!
Fav song(s):
My musical taste is a bit…strange. It ranges from K-pop to Classical, but I would have to say that my favourite song would be the 'Hebrides' Overture by Mendelssohn. (Bank geek, I know)
Fav movie(s):
In general I enjoy watching scary movies. Not for the movies themselves, but just because I like the atmosphere when I watch with friends. Also I really enjoyed Cloverfield, which many people didn't seem to like.
Fav book(s):
Harry Potter books! And Chinese Cinderella is a really good book too, it's a really touching/sad true story (kind of like an auto-biography?).
Fav show(s):
I haven't really been into watching TV in recent years, to be honest. But, I think I am in love with the BBC Sherlock Holmes series!
Fav place in the world:
As strange as it may seem, I really loved Ljubljana which is the capital of Slovenia.
Power Rangers Questions:
Q: How did you hear about the Power Rangers role?
A: The talent agency that I'm a part of told me about it. I really didn't think I had a chance, but I went ahead anyway.
Q: Did you audition for any other roles?
A: Actually no. The only role they were auditioning for at the time was for Terry.
Q: What was it like working with Steven Skyler and Erika Fong?
A: Amazing! They are the most amazing and friendly people ever. Coming in to Power Rangers and their cast of American actors, to them I would have just been some random kid from New Zealand.
Steven Skyler is a such great guy with a really great voice. And Erika Fong is just as nice as a real big sister, if not more!
Q: Do you still keep in touch with any cast members?
A: Sadly no. We didn't really swap contact details or anything, though I should have at least asked. After filming ended last year they all headed back to America so they weren't around for very long after.
Q: How would you compare yourself with your character?
A: Well I'm definitely not a med-student – I'm nowhere near smart enough to be one. I reckon one of the biggest things about Terry is his dedication to his studies and also towards his music. He's got this family pressure on the academic side, as you might remember his argument with Mia – 'you're just like Mom and Dad!' But I find that's quite similar to me, since I'm studying in university. I also have a big passion for music, though I play the violin and the viola, so classical music is a big part of me as well. Getting through university while keeping up the dedication to both sides is a challenge to me as I'm sure it is for Terry.
Q: What was the most challenging part on the episode?
A: That would have to be my first day of filming. We were doing the scene where I first enter the Shiba house and tell everyone about the gig. It was pretty much like 'prepare your lines, get dressed, get your make up done, and go!' And it included a lot of prop-work and multitasking which I felt really got the better of me in such a big scene.
Q: If you could perform in another episode, would you?
A: Absolutely! I loved doing it once, and would love to do it again for sure.
Q: Did you watch Power Rangers before getting the gig?
A: Not really, especially since I'm not really into watching TV these days. I maybe watched a season or two growing up, but not in recent years.
Q: Have you seen your episode? If so, what are your thoughts?
A: Yes I have! You know that feeling when you hear your voice on a recording and you can't stand it? Yeah it was like that, but ten times worse. I remember sitting in my room watching, and the whole time I was just like CRINGE. Also, about my accent: I tried to get rid of it! Though it doesn't seem like it at all. It was hard for me to balance the rest of the acting while thinking about the accent as well, so I need to work a lot harder at that in future. At first I thought that anything with me in it could not possibly be presentable for TV, but I did really enjoy watching it, and I thought it came together really well.
Q: Did you really sing for the episode?
A: To be honest, no I didn't. I wasn't supposed to be on the track at all, I think. But while filming, I may have indulged in a bit of singing while my microphone was off.
Q: What did you think of the song?
A: While other people my age might think it's weird for me to like the song, I really really like it! Even though it might sound like it's for younger people, I really enjoyed it. While watching the episode, listening to the song really brought me back to the filming and reminded me of how much of a good time I had.
Q: Last words?
A: A really huge thank you to everyone who watched the episode, whether you liked it or not, and whether you liked me or not too. Thank you to anyone who took interest in me as well – I didn't think people would even care especially after just one episode. Last but not least, thank you to everyone at Samurai Cast and Rangercrew! Hopefully see you all again soon in something else in the future!


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Two veterans perform in Japan this week for the "Japan Blues & Soul Carnival," which takes place July 19-21. Chicago soul singer Otis Clay and Mississippi bluesman Eddy "The Chief" Clearwater may have a combined age of 135, but don't expect the advancing years to have diminished the power of Clay's soul holler or Clearwater's gusto at launching into his Chuck Berry-esque duckwalk.
Clay has recorded two live albums in Japan, while Clearwater is known as one of the originator's of the West Side-style blues guitar which emerged in Chicago in the late 1960s. Also on the bill is R&B newcomer Van Hunt.
The "Japan Blues & Soul Carnival" takes place at Namba Hatch, Osaka (July 19), Bottom Line, Nagoya, (July 20), Club Citta Kawasaki (July 21) and at Hibiya Yagai Ongakudo, Tokyo (July 23). Tickets are 7,000 yen in advance (Tokyo show 7,350 yen). For further information, visit www.mandicompany.co.jp


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Christmas is fast approaching so I think it is time to start advertising my seasonal wishes!
Recently I have revamped my public wishlist to reflect on my increased preference for experience as opposed to material goods. Don´t get me wrong, I still crave beautiful clothes, shoes and accessories, especially those that can be used in future photoshoots. I also still appreciate the every day sort of treats such as cosmetics or more casual clothes as they simply save me the money I would have to otherwise spend. The same goes for the UK Amazon gift vouchers. You just cannot go wrong with those. On top of that, I would be extremely delighted to get the iPhone 7 plus or a new fur coat. However, having had a very busy year with almost zero "me" time, this is what I would also like to get:
- Sponsor my photo shoot – email for details.
- Spa gift vouchers, check the public wishlist for details.
- Sponsor my trip to London or Berlin (December 2016 or April 2017).
If you are a financial slave or are simply comfortable giving cash, you can do so here. Alternatively, ask for my UK bank account no.
**Thank you N. for sponsoring my holidays in Dubai and the chateau weekend.**
**Thank you K. for ordering the iPhone and sponsoring my photo shoot**


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Three people were killed and two others were injured early Saturday morning after a shooting at an Arizona house party.
Shot were fired at around 3:30 a.m. local time at a residence in Glendale, killing three males — all of whom were in their teens and early twenties, Glendale police said.
A 15-year-old girl and a 19-year-old man were also shot and were taken to local hospitals with non-life-threatening injuries, police said.
There are no suspects in custody. According to police, "approximately five Hispanic males got into a verbal altercation inside the home with partygoers" and were asked to leave the gathering. As the men drove away, shots erupted from their car.
Glendale police homicide detectives are investigating.