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Weekly Buyer's Guide: High End System - March 2004by Evan Lieb on 4/2/2004 11:25 AM EST
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fedora64 - Monday, April 05, 2004 - linkI have seen soo many reviews talk about how the Via chipset is faster. And for the specific benchmarks used, there is a marginal difference, but then there are the parts most people do not see, and most benchmarks do not cover. The VIA chipset tends to have only one PCI bus in implementation. What that really means is your 10/100/1000 network card, is only a 10/100, since your bus cannot push both IDE and network for large transfers. This is only made worse when using USB/Firewire devices as well. I am certainly not saying that nVidia can do no wrong, they can, and there are many instances where they do, but when it comes down to total system performance, many will find that nforce 3 150 chipset boards will offer noticable performance improvements. Most nforce 3 boards seem to have at least 2 PCI buses some have 3. If you take the gigabyte K8NPro for example, USB IDE and Audio are on a seperate bus from Network and SATA, There is a firewire port on yet another bus. In my case this makes large ssh copies approximately 4x faster getting 6-7MB per second from a VIA chipset board (MSI K8TNeo) and 24-27MB per second from the nForce 3 board (Gigabyte K8NPro). Reply
ceefka - Monday, April 05, 2004 - link#14 Evan, no reason whatsoever, I just liked to suggest it. I think it is a viable alternative. Do you have a problem with Terratec? Reply
l3ored - Sunday, April 04, 2004 - linki dont like that it says the k8v will satisfy overclockers when the reviews i have read on it say it doesnt overclock, as well as the rest of the other athlon 64 motherboards. Reply
Ken90630 - Sunday, April 04, 2004 - linkHowdy, Gerbil333: If you don't mind my asking, what components in what high-end computer would require a 430- to 450-watt PSU like you recommend in your post? If you "do the math," as the expression goes, and calculate the wattage needed for devices like those in Evan's recommended system (and even throw in a little headroom for future expansion), neither this system nor even a modestly more demanding one would make any use whatsoever of a 430- or 450-watt PSU. (Unless it's going to be set up in an equatorial rain forest or the Sahara Desert and run at about 60 degress Celsius 24/7 or something!)
Do you mind if I ask how you're calculating your recommendation?
PS: The True Power 430 goes for $99.95 plus tax and shipping on Antec's Web site, which means it would run about $117 to $118 total. (I suppose some Web shopping might turn up a slightly better deal, or you could buy it at a retail store & save the shipping cost.) If dedicated rails, voltage feedback and gold-plated connectors are worth spending this kind of money on a PSU, (and it may very well be for some people building a truly "high end" machine), go for it. I personally would want to see how noisy a TP 430 is before buying, but that's just me (I have to work in a quiet environment). Reply
Nighteye2 - Sunday, April 04, 2004 - link#31, benchmarks are indeed a good idea to add - but in a seperate article at the end of the month, when the guides gets revised for that month. It would be good to see the different classes of systems with their pricetags compared to eachother in a series of benchmarks.
Gerbil333 - Sunday, April 04, 2004 - linkThe system doesn't seem nearly high-end enough. I have a 9800 Pro 128mb and an Audigy 2 ZS, and I only consider my system mid-range (the rest of my system is over 9 months old though: A7N8X Deluxe 2.0 w/Athlon XP 2500+, Corsair 512mb TWINX3200LLPT). If you're going to call it high-end, make it high-end! What's with the cheap PSU? I know an Antec 400 will do, but that's not that great. At least get an Antec TruePower of over 430-450W. The case doesn't seem that great, either. I'd spend a lot more than $70 for a case on a "high-end" machine. I paid $88 + $15 for a cathode for my black, aluminum Chieftec -- again, this is a mid-range computer!
I'd also like to point out that there is much more than a difference in the number of channels between the Audigy 2 and the Audigy 2 ZS. In my opinion, that's not at all what separates the two models. Notice that the Audigy 2 has a SNR of 106db, whereas the Audigy 2 ZS is rated 108db. You may think 2db doesn't matter much, but if you read a bit about SNR and sound in general, you'll realize that 2db is theoretically a much cleaner signal (less noise). Reply
Ken90630 - Sunday, April 04, 2004 - linkEvan: If you don't mind, I'd like to respectfully comment on your recommended power supply (the Antec SL400) for this system.
I'd like to suggest instead either a PC Power & Cooling Model 310ATX (300 watts minimum output) or a Seasonic SuperSilencer 350 (350 watts minimum, 390 peak) instead of the Antec for this system. No, I don't work for either of these companies (or any computer-related company for that matter), but I have been researching PSUs recently for 2 builds I'm planning for myself and I discovered some interesting things.
As Rod Serling used to say, "Submitted for your approval:" If you compare these 3 supplies, you will see that the Antec has a comparatively poor efficiency rating of 68%, no power factor correction, and an MTBF rating of only 50,000 hours (and that's at 25 degrees celsius, which is misleading 'cuz PSUs typically run hotter than that -- more like 40 degrees celsius -- internally). And an output noise rating is nowhere to be found on Antec's Web site or the product box (presumably because it's probably not so quiet?)
By comparison, the aformentioned PCP&C 310ATX has a 74% efficiency rating and 99% power factor correction (which will shave a significant number of dollars off one's electric bills), and a noise level down to a nearly-silent 20dBA (and a still-quiet 32dBA at max load). It's MTBF at 50 degrees Celsius (!) is 100,000 hours, and it has a 3-year warranty. Its regulation specs are within 5% on all rails except for the -12V (basically only used for modems, right?), which is rated at 10% tolerance. The price: $49 plus tax & shipping on their Web site.
Seasonic's SuperSilencer 300- & 350-watt models also, IMHO, seem to beat the Antec. They feature efficency ratings of 80% (!), 99% active power factor correction, they run at a low noise floor of 25dBA during low demand/temp, and also have a 3-year warranty (like the Antec & PCP&C models). And their regulation tolerances are all 5% like the 310ATX (and 10% for the -12V line). The price for the SS300 is about $55-$60, plus tax & shipping.
Now, you may say, "Well, okay, that's all well and good, but the Antec SL400 puts out 400 watts and is a few dollars cheaper." My thoughts on that would be that an extra 4 or 5 dollars is irrelevant when it comes to a system's PSU, and like you say, "a quality 350W or even 300W power supply may do the job just as well." On balance,
I personally think it would be better to have a 300- or 350-watt PSU with the specs & features of the PCP&C or Seasonic models than an inferior PSU with a truly unnecessary 400-watt power output capability that will likely go unused. (And who knows what the output REALLY is at higher temps than 25 degrees C?)
Unless someone has a full tower with half a dozen hard drives, a $400 video card, several GB of RAM, 5 optical drives, dual Xeon processors & a bunch of lighting or something, it seems to me that anything beyond 300 or 350 watts for a PC will be pointless overkill. For awhile now I've been wondering if there is some rational reason why people with 'regular' PCs spend money on 65- or 68%-efficiency, electricity-gobbling, NOISY, gazillion-watt PSUs with often mediocre overall specs and TRUE wattage outputs that fall precipitously at real-world PSU temps. I'm not saying the Antec SL400 is like this (it's probably a decent & reliable PSU overall), but a lot of higher-watt PSUs do appear to be poor investments considering what you really get (and need).
I always enjoy the system guides, by the way. And I like your mention of the Philips monitor -- it is a nice one. Overall, good stuff. Just offering food for thought for anyone in need of a PSU for this type of system. :-)
PS: I have nothing whatsoever against Antec as a company. It seems to have a good reputation in enthusiast circles, and the dedicated rail & reg tolerance features of the newer True Power series models are appealing (more companies should follow their lead in this area!). Based on the info currently available, it's just my humble opinion that their PSUs are getting beat right now by some of their competitors' models in the middle price range. Reply
pesos - Sunday, April 04, 2004 - linkPumpkinierre - yes you are correct about raid 1 -- it *can* improve random reads (not always though) because as you say a smart controller can pick and choose which drive to get the info off of. however as you also point out raid 1 will typically give you a small penalty for writes as they must be committed to both disks before the next operation can begin (unless newer controllers have moved beyond this limitation). I'll have to defer to you on raid 0 with lots of drives (I've never used raid 0 with more than 2 drives). i honestly think that with today's drives you're not going to get your money's worth with any raid setup on a desktop machine. IMHO you'd be better off spending the same money on a decent scsi controller and a 15k rpm drive (with a nice large ata drive for storage)... Reply
kherman - Saturday, April 03, 2004 - linkAs long as their is a valid up grade path for 2+ hard drives, who cares.
120 gig is plenty these days. If you need more space later, add another hard drive.
As long as a spare hard drive bay exists, who cares? Reply
Pumpkinierre - Saturday, April 03, 2004 - link#33 RAID 1 improves random read times with an intelligent controller as it can access two or more drives in parallel. Even RAID 0 with large stripe size (and width ie several drives) can help access time (but may reduce transfer rate).
What I want is virtually striped for read RAID 1 ie the controller reads a stripe from each mirrored drive in parallel. As the stripe is virtual not real the controller could vary the stripe size based on the size of the data requested. This would give fast transfer for larger data chunks and fast positioning for smaller files as well as redundancy. The only drawbacks are slower write speeds and <50% capacity efficiency. Given that gamers generally use reads mostly and larger size (80-160GB)HDDs are cheap at the moment, these drawbacks are'nt a great problem. The controller would have to be intelligent but not overly. To my knowledge no one seems to be doing this unless it is one of these hybrids (RAID 1.5?) but being a single drive owner I am not fully au fait with the matter.
pesos - Saturday, April 03, 2004 - linkstickyc - i think you're a little confused. raid is not going to do anything about the "hard drive bottleneck." if anything, raid will slow your system down. yes, it might up your data transfer rate, but that is never the bottleneck. access time is what will kill you, and a RAID 0 setup (which is what I imagine you are recommending) if anything will increase your latency a tad. personally I run a 60 gig WD special edition for OS/apps and a 200 gig WD special edition for storage/games. this way you have two separate drives working for you instead of chaining them together for all operations. unfortunately my drives are parallel so my channels are full with the two drives and two optical drives. SATA would be great in this situation because you could get your drives and optical drives all on their own channels.
the saddest part of all this is after a few years working in IT, my frankenstein bug is nearly gone. I find myself thinking "yeah it would be great to build my own box again, but man i can grab a Dell with exactly the same components (except a p4 3.2 ghz and no monitor, already have a 20" lcd) and a full 3 yr warranty for $1700. depressing... Reply
flatustdm - Saturday, April 03, 2004 - linkthis is the first time i've read the high-end guide. I was a little suprised to see how cost-concious it was. Do you think you could do a "higher-end" article once and a while?
I do the purchasing of computers for my company (we have no IT department) and usually spend around 5k per machine without monitor. Every now and then I'll find a comparison of workstation machines, but it would be real nice if you guys could fit one in your rotation. Even if it was every 3 or 6 months it would be a welcome read.
thanks Reply
Minotaar - Saturday, April 03, 2004 - linkWell, I have to say that this high end buyers guide was better than the last.
In particular, it was good that pricing information was included on some of the components,.so people actually knew where they could get those parts.
HOWEVER, there were still a lot of issues:
When you publish a high end buyers guide, you should actually build the system and give us the benchmarks. I think its great that anandtech does so much benchmarking already with current day video cards and the like, so benchmark your high end systems! I want to know if I buy A,B,C,D etc just like you say, that I will get EXACTLY ASDF.GH fps on UT2004.
What about heat sink recommendations? Many people are obsessed with silence and cooling performance on their High end PCs because they live work and play right next to them. Heat and noise is a big issue for an increasing number of people! What about zalman's giant passive cooling case? That might be a nice addition to a high end system! does it work? you're ANANDTECH of all places you should know!
Single vs Dual CPU. the author clearly has never gone duallie, or he would be recommending a duallie box for a high end PC. At work I recently had the opportunity to choose between a celly2.4 and a dual p3-800, and I took the p3 800s. dual is so mucb better, and the masses need to know! Anyone who uses their computer will appreciate the fact that they can play a FPS at full performance while their computer is encoding video. Or un-raring pr0n. or whatever they do.
Finally, cases. Ok, so you choose NOT to review heatsinks, and you still recommended a case? come on. Why wasnt the Lian Li PC-6070 considered? or any of the cases recommended by silentpcreview.com?
Nighteye2 - Saturday, April 03, 2004 - linkWhat about the thought of 2 120 GB disks in RAID 0? At a cost of $184 it's still cheaper than a 74 GB raptor, and you have 240 GB of storage space, alongside the speed boost of RAID 0, which is mainly noticable in load times (anyone else finding those obligatory waits during games annoying?)
Satariel - Saturday, April 03, 2004 - linkThe Philips 202p4 monitors are capable of a refreshrate of 104hz in 1600x1200.
"Resolutions span all the way up to 2048x1536 with 1600x1200 sustainable at a high refresh rate of 104Hz"
Also the video bandwidth is 360 not 320 as they stated on Tweak3d. Reply
lostintime - Saturday, April 03, 2004 - linkI think Anandtech should add a new category: Dream System
Zirconium - Saturday, April 03, 2004 - linkI would really like to see LCD recommendations in future reviews - chiefly because I am a college student and space is a premium. Plus, even at high refresh rates (85 hz), I can't stare at a CRT monitor for too long, but I have no problems with my laptop.
As for the hard drive: I am looking to build a system, and from what I have seen, it seems like a good idea to get a 36gb Raptor just to boot and load apps from, and then a supplementary 120gb or larger drive to store my warez... I mean my legal backups of DVDs and CDs I own. Perhaps you are limited by retail prices of things - after rebate, you can frequently get a good hard drive for much less (dealnews.com periodically has links good hard drives for $60 or something in that ballpark). Reply
Cybercat - Friday, April 02, 2004 - linkMeh, nothing's really changed. I can't wait for NF3-250 boards to start showing up! :D Heck, I can't wait for all the great stuff coming out this year. Why can't I just hop into a DeLorian and skip a few months. :p Reply
TrogdorJW - Friday, April 02, 2004 - linkThe processor choices are also somewhat questionable. If dropping from a Radeon 9800XT to a 9800 Pro 128 MB card to save $200 is considered acceptable - after all, the 9800XT is only about 10% faster - how can you justify buying a $420+ processor when it's at best 10% faster than a processor that costs $140 less? (In the case of the 3.4C, it's only 6% faster than the 3.2C!) I guess choosing the fastest "mainstream" processor (i.e. not P4EE or Athlon FX/Opteron) makes the system "high end"?
Really, I think the main problem is that you haven't clearly defined your "high end" target. Are you shooting for !$2000 high end? If so, then this is about as good as you can get. On the other hand, you list a price of "$1000 to $5000" as the range, which is just way too broad. $1000 is down near the mid-range system configuration, while $5000 would only be achieved by using exotic hardware (i.e. 21" LCD and $400 speakers).
I think $2000 is a good price point for a high-end PC, and I think you should just come right out and state what you're aiming for. "High end without breaking the bank" is just not doing it for me, since you only seem to be following that rule about 50% of the time. Reply
TrogdorJW - Friday, April 02, 2004 - linkI disagree with those disagreeing on the hard drive choice. The point of their "high end" system is to build a really good system for a reasonable price. They say that they want to stay closer to $1000 as opposed to $5000, and if you don't count the monitor, you could build this system for about $1500. Pretty good for a very fast PC!
Anyway, talking about the hard drives, you've got 120 GB for $92, or 74 GB for $214. Over twice as much cost of a little more than half the storage. Yes, it's faster, but how often will you notice the speed boost? When loading Windows and other applications, you might shave off a few seconds. That's not a big deal to me.
I suppose 74 GB is enough for general use, but the 37 GB Raptor really isn't an option in my book, unless you get a secondary drive for mass data storage. Games are routinely eating 2+ GB chunks (about 5 GB for Unreal Tournament 2004, I think!), so even 80 GB can go pretty fast. Anyway, I like the thought of using two 74 GB Raptors in a RAID 0 array for the performance, but the $430 price tag just kills it for me. Reply
Jeff7181 - Friday, April 02, 2004 - linkI agree with #6... Raptor should definately been the primary choice, ALONG WITH the 120, or possibly a 200 or 250 GB 7200 RPM SATA drive for storage.
Sheesh... what were you thinking, Evan? Seriously, what's your reasoning?
Based on this...
"If you can't live with a 36.7GB or 74GB drive, then we suggest that you simply skip this alternative and stick with the recommended 1200JB. But that's only if storage capacity is very important to you."
... comment, it sounds like the Raptor should be your primary choice. Reply
kherman - Friday, April 02, 2004 - linkFor high end systems, it would be nice to see keyboard/mouse recomendations even if it's only mentioned in passing. Reply
Locutus4657 - Friday, April 02, 2004 - linkAfter reading a bit more I'm really woundering about some of your choices... A 120GB hard drive for a high end system? I was going to go 160 the midrange system I'm planning to build. Other than that and the MB most everything else looks ok. Reply
Locutus4657 - Friday, April 02, 2004 - linkI keep being dissapointed that they never seen the recommend the Chaintech ZNF3-150. It's the only A64 Motherboard I've seen with a 6 in 1 card reader and front Firewire and USB 2.0 connectors. I would (and will) spend a bit more for these features, espeacially if we're talking high end. Reply
PrinceGaz - Friday, April 02, 2004 - linkCPU, mobo, memory, yeah they all sound good to me.
The 9800Pro for $206 sounds good too, but the alternative of a 9800XT with its $412 price-tag coming in exactly twice as expensive as the 9800Pro for the marginal performance increase it may offer isn't money well spent by my book.
I don't know how much the current models cost so maybe they're somewhat more expensive than the two you listed, but the NEC/Mitsubishi Diamond Pro monitors are considered among the best available today. The 22" (20" visible) DiamondPro 2070SB I have is over a year old but is capable of 85hz at 2048x1536, or more usefully gives a solid picture at 100hz at 1600x1200 (could do 110hz if desired but not much point). They're trinitron (aperture-grill) type monitors just like that recommended Philips one.
A non-Creative high-end sound-card solution would be a good idea given how some people aren't only interested in games. Reply
Nighteye2 - Friday, April 02, 2004 - linkWhy isn't the build-in RAID controller used? I imagine in a high-end system faster load times will be much appreciated. Also, 2 WD 1200JB disk in RAID 0 will be faster then the raptor, overall, and cheaper as well.
SHO235V8 - Friday, April 02, 2004 - linkI just wish you could give us more "guidance" on the launch schedules for the "exciting" new products. I am anxiously awaiting the new ATI cards and the 939 Athlons for my new high end PC. Do NDA's preclude you from talking about them. Although video game launches change, at least they give one a target date to count down... ;) With hardware the product is just simply available by the time we see its review on AT! Thanks for bringing the guides back, and I agree that you should pick a LCD monitor for each price point as well. Reply
StickyC - Friday, April 02, 2004 - linkThis is the 2nd or 3rd 'high-end' guide that recommends going SATA, but not RAID. Why not? I'd think that since the HD is still one of the bigger bottlenecks, going the RAID route would be a given.
I was under the impression that most SATA "RAID" setups aren't very optimized at using both SATA channels at once and that two SATA channels can easily saturate the PCI bus, so a motherboard solution is the way to go?
Two 36gb Raptors should be plenty for just about any system. There are very few non-specialized situations where you'd need that fast an access to >70gb of data at once. More than that is likely archival storage (video/music playback) and can/should be handled by external large capacity drives. Reply
Pumpkinierre - Friday, April 02, 2004 - linkAt the Prescott launch, the P4E was supposed to be priced the same as the P4c Northwood. But in your price guide, the 3.4E is $80 more than the 3.4c (and similarly for the 3.2). This wasnt mentioned in your text but would definitely make the Northwood the better choice as performance of this cpu is at least on a par with the prescott.
I would have expected the price to be the other way round given the heat reputation of these cpus and the fact that DELL have'nt to my knowledge released systems supporting this core. Perhaps its production problems, I've heard some articles refer to the scarcity of P4Es on the market.
Evan Lieb - Friday, April 02, 2004 - linkHooligan2, there's no noticeable difference between a PowerColor and ATI 9800 Pro in performance. I wouldn't stress about it.
cK-Gunslinger, thanks, its been fixed.
thatsright, not sure what's prompted you to say that. Is there any product I've listed that you would disagree with based on your own experience and testing?
Brickster, glad you're happy. I love that monitor myself. :D
ceefka, any reason you don't like the Audigy 2?
srue, as we mentioned a couple times in this guide, we wanted to bring the price down a little from the previous guide, which was over $2200. Our goal was never to be between $1000 and $5000.
Swylen, a 3000+ runs 200MHz slower and has half the L2 cache.
Hooligan2, yup, I wouldn't disagree with you there. We just didn't want to cut down the system TOO much.
WooDaddy, agreed, but $250 is simply unreasonable for a keyboard and mouse combo.
WooDaddy - Friday, April 02, 2004 - linkEvan,
I know you said that the keyboard and mouse is a personal preference type purchase, but I think a keyboard mouse combo is definately worth considering especially since this is a high end system; the Logitech DiNuovo bluetooth keyboard and mouse system.
I saw this for the first time at the CES and was blown away. If anything, it's definately worth mentioning. It typically runs $250 too. Definately high-end material. Reply
Hooligan2 - Friday, April 02, 2004 - linkI would probably go with the 3200 Reply
Swylen - Friday, April 02, 2004 - linkAnd you made the price an issue going for the 9800 Pro over the XT yet you chose an Athlon 64 3400 for $400+ when a 3000 is half the price for a comparable performance. Reply
meccaboy858 - Friday, April 02, 2004 - linkReply
meccaboy858 - Friday, April 02, 2004 - linkReply
meccaboy858 - Friday, April 02, 2004 - linkHow about both an LCD and a CRT! Some of this stuff is questionable, but still cool to get a general idea. Reply
Brickster - Friday, April 02, 2004 - linkReply to #6
"And how about an LCD monitor?"
As Mr. Lieb said last month...Price vs. Performance. My Phillips will kick the dog doo out of any LCD in that price range.
Brick Reply
srue - Friday, April 02, 2004 - link120GB hard drive in a "high end" system? Seriously, make the Raptor the first choice. Better yet, two Raptors. And how about an LCD monitor? If you are trying to keep the price between $1000 and $5000, you could add a grand worth of upgrades to this system and still be below the halfway point. Reply
ceefka - Friday, April 02, 2004 - linkWould a Terratec Aureon 5.1 Sky be an alternative soundcard? It also has 24/96 and even 192Khz on playback, professional specs. It goes for around € 70,00. Reply
Brickster - Friday, April 02, 2004 - linkI got the monitor here:
Alternative: Philips 22" (20" viewable) 202P45 CRT
The thing is amazing! I am very happy with it even though I payed a little extra. I can't even believe I was on 17" before this.
Dream come true.
thatsright - Friday, April 02, 2004 - link
You have a picture of a ASUS Motherboard where it should be a picture of the ABIT IC7-G.
And it seems like you folks only 'pick' products from your advertisers or manufactures which send AT review samples (tisk, tisk).
I like the AT system guides somewhat, but I still believe that the SharkyExtreme.com sys guides are put together with a lot more care and style.
Am I banned yet? Reply
cK-Gunslinger - Friday, April 02, 2004 - linkOn the summary chart, you only show 2x256MB for the memory configuration. That should be 2x512MB, no? Reply
Hooligan2 - Friday, April 02, 2004 - linkWhy do you recommend the powercolor radeon9800 when I always see the ATI Radeon 9800 doing better in the benchmark gaming tests? (sorry if I missed it...I am new to the site) Reply


text:
A9 TV; November 20th, 2011
No-one can ever disrespect me or be impolite. He can even not imagine. Everyone knows that. They naturally show courtesy. Naturally; in any contrary situation, we do what is necessary within the framework of law Insha'Allah.
(Regarding the sign leading of faith, the bacteria flagellum)
Protein is wise, atom is wise, everywhere is wise. What kind of a system is this? Amazing, masha'Allah. How beautifully has Allah created! What a great blessing is science. As science develops, so does the religion. As science develops, irreligion collapses. In the past, peopleassumed that as sciencedeveloped, the religion collapsed. Then they looked and saw that it is just the contrary, Alhamdulillah. Now these guys fear from science. They tremble like a leaf because of the thought that a new development would occur. Then where have they found the solution? In swaggering. They have become champions of talking through their hats. Now and then they say, "We have found the tail or the so-called ear of that so-called ape." How do you dare to talk like this when we are here, you kids? Are you any longer in a state to lie? Every time they lie, I hold their ears and take their heads out of the water, and say, "You naughty children! Will you lie again?" They answer, "No brother, we won't!" I ravaged them every time they dared to say lies. They have recently palavered again but we caught it in the air. We have made them sit on their backs again.
(In response to the claim "Your followers write the Books")
They say, "The so and so book had been written by that person." All right but if he had written it, this brother had left the group. Why has he stopped writing as if he hit a wall? Now that he has such a talent, he can continue writing. He can write as he wishes. He simply can't because he lost his soul. His soul disappeared. Faith disappeared, excitement disappeared, people's targets, goals, ideals disappeared. What has been left? Talking nonsense under the guise of so called intellectualism. You cannot write with intellectual nonsense. You cannot do anything. You can wander around. You cannot do anything. Such endeavor, our books demand soul, wisdom and love. I take my students at a time when they know nothing and educate them into such scholars that people say that they are the ones writing the books. That is nice and it is true masha'Allah. But who educated them? Notice what they say, "He educates scholars who can write books." Then who is the one that writes that book? Allah creates everything. Allah makes us instrumental for that.
Europe has lapsed into a dead silence. They have almost lost their souls. In the past they used to palaver; those tongues of guys who constantly told lies about Darwinism became paralyzed. Liars have some sort of energy, right? But I pulled their tongues off by means of science. Now they cannot lie. I say, "Now lie if you can!"
(Surat al-Ikhlas)
"'He is Allah, Absolute Oneness, Allah, the Everlasting Sustainer of all.
He has not given birth and was not born. And no one is comparable to Him."
We know that especially in the End Times Christianity will disappear in Islam, Insha'Allah. This is also a verse depicting the End Times, because the last verses generally refer to the End Times. The verses refer to every time but Almighty Allah especially revealed that verse as a cure to the corruption of the End Times, the scourge of trinity. Almighty Allah says, "Allah is One."
(About the superiority of our Prophet (saas))
Our Prophet (saas) is the greatest and the most superior of all prophets Insha'Allah.
(Regarding the bacteria flagellum's —making 1500 cycles— being faster than the most advanced engines of the world.)
Knowing such information about the signs leading to faith and having no faith ; I can no longer imagine how this happens. What else shall I say to these people? A wisdom very much superior to human mind. If evolutionists had ever known that science would gotten them into such trouble , they would have resisted it with all their might and main. They advocated science and science has swallowed them. They thought that science would pave the way to irreligion for them but they noticed that science explains religion; it interprets it. This has become amazing. Allah has suffocated them in their own schemes, masha'Allah.
It is said, I seek refuge in Allah from the accursed satan, "You will not be able to bear with me." (Surat al-Kahf, 67)because he says, "you will not look with the eye of wisdom." "(How indeed could you bear with patience something you have not encompassed in your knowledge?'?" (Surat al-Kahf, 68)" The essence is very important; notice that he says, "You cannot grasp the essence."
"He said: " Then if you follow me, do not question me about anything,"That is to say, "Do not ask, why this has happened like this or that because I know something.""until I myself make mention of it to you." (Surat al-Kahf, 70)" He will explain when the due time comes. So he says, "You will remain silent until that time."
He said, 'Did I not say that you would not be able to bear with me? (Surat al-Kahf, 72)"The majority of the people or some of them will in no way bear with Hazrat Mahdi (as). The Qur'an relates this. Hazrat Mahdi (as) is like Hazrat Khidir (as). His followers are also like him, Insha'Allah.
"He said" Notice that he repeats it several times."He said, 'Did I not tell you that you would not be able to bear with me?' (Surat al-Kahf, 75)"He says once again and then explains the wisdom in it. What he says is true Insha'Allah. If anyone says, "I cannot understand", we will explain it again Insha'Allah.
2011-12-06 23:16:17

subset: commoncrawl


text:
Plugin Information
This plugin provides the ability to add pre- and post-build steps to Maven 2-type projects. This allows for the use of wrapper scripts, cleanup, version updating, etc outside of Maven while still taking advantage of the functionality of Maven 2 projects.
Project Configuration
Check "Configure M2 Extra Build Steps" in the Build Wrappers section of a Maven project's configuration. Add pre- and/or post-build steps, as desired. These steps function the same as freestyle project steps.
Version History
Version 1.1.3 (12/21/2009)
Version 1.1.2 (09/28/2009)
Version 1.1.1 (05/28/2009)
Version 1.1 (05/26/2009)
Version 1.0 (05/18/2009)
Comments (12)
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Mar 03, 2010
Praveen Atluri says:Hello, I am running Shell script after the maven build using this plugin.This p...
I am running Shell script after the maven build using this plugin.This plugin is running the shell script even If the MVN build is failing.
NOTE: I Enabled "Run only If the build suceeds" option but still this option doesnt seem like working in 1.1.3 version of the plugin.
Mar 17, 2010
Peter Schuetze says:Does this plugin works with the locks and latches plugin? According to the conso...
Does this plugin works with the locks and latches plugin? According to the console output only the main maven buildstep is protected by the locks and pre build steps as well as the post build steps are outside of the logged area. I need the pre and post steps also being protected by the locks.
Apr 23, 2010
Aranya Das says:Is it possible to add a pre-build script in a free style project in Hudson ? I h...
Is it possible to add a pre-build script in a free style project in Hudson ?
I have a free style grails project and I am building it using grails war.
But I have to run an ant script which will update the application.properties and so that the manifest will be reflecting the version relative to hudson build number.
I think this plugin works for Maven 2-type projects only.
Any clue on this ?
Jul 08, 2010
Peter Schuetze says:You don't need an extra step plugin with a freestyle job. You can already create...
You don't need an extra step plugin with a freestyle job. You can already create more than one build step in a freestyle job.
Jul 13, 2010
Christoph says:Well, we're using hudson with the m2 extra steps plugin for building our web-...
Well, we're using hudson with the m2 extra steps plugin for building our web- and middletier and still got a major problem with the post build run-criteria.
Each time our web- and middletier builds SCM change triggered incremental, we got the problem that our post-build steps, which do our ant packaging and the SCP job to our test environment, are not set off for a stable or instable build, with the criteria "Run only if build succeeds or is unstable"
This leads to no deliveries for SCM change triggered incremental builds and is really annoying, cause every time we need a delivery for our software, we have to do a complete build, which takes about 20 minutes (incremental only 2-3 minutes).
Does someone also have this problem, or does someone have a solution for this problem, cause the "workaround" to set the criteria to "Run regardless of build result" is no option, leading to "red" deliveries!?
Using: Hudson 1.364, with latest m2 extra steps plugin, jdk1.5.0_18, maven 2.2.1 and ant1.7.
Date: July, the 13th, 2010.
Sep 04, 2010
Robert Watkins says:It's a hudson bug. See HUDSON-6033
It's a hudson bug. See HUDSON-6033
Nov 18, 2010
Chas Emerick says:It appears that the M2 Extra Steps plugin does not ever properly recognize multi...
It appears that the M2 Extra Steps plugin does not ever properly recognize multimodule m2 release builds as successful, thereby not running post-maven steps (assuming they're configured only to run when the build is successful).
larrys in #hudson irc suggested that that was due to the separate maven invocations for each module. i.e. when I look at a build page, each module is gray, with only the top-level project build shown in blue (successful).
I'm on hudson 1.364, and m2 extra steps plugin v1.1.3. Is this a known issue? Presumably, this plugin should determine "success" from the result of the top-level build process, and ignore any ambiguous results from module builds?
Anyone have ideas as to a workaround?
Nov 19, 2010
Chas Emerick says:Looks like there's an existing ticket for this issue, also with comments re: usa...
Looks like there's an existing ticket for this issue, also with comments re: usage of the release plugin. I'd comment there, but apparently I don't have the privs.
Dec 22, 2010
Chas Emerick says:FYI, upgrading to Hudson 1.386 resolved this problem.
FYI, upgrading to Hudson 1.386 resolved this problem.
Dec 21, 2010
Timothy Fridey says:See below.
See below.
Dec 21, 2010
Timothy Fridey says:Hi there, We...
Hi there,
We are using this plugin toghether with the 'WAS Builder Plugin' to Deploy out webapps/EJB's to a Develompment environment. All is working well for our webapps but we have come across a problem with this for our EJB's we have multimodule projects containing e.g. EJB-Client.jar and EJB.ear. We have selected the build option 'Build modules in parallel' so that if we make changes to EJB.ear we dont have all the projects using EJB-Client trying to rebuild.
The problem is that because the build extra steps are defined at a project level this means that After the EJB-Client is built it trys to do a deploy, but we only want to deploy after an EJB.ear is built.
Is it possible to extent 'M2 Extra Steps Plugin' to be able to select only do extra steps after X module is built?
Sep 28, 2011
Erik Ramfelt says:FYI, the plugin is being maintained at https://wiki.jenkins-ci.org/display/JENKI...
FYI, the plugin is being maintained at https://wiki.jenkins-ci.org/display/JENKINS/M2+Extra+Steps+Plugin.


text:
Where Do I LiveLogic puzzles require you to think. You will have to be logical in your reasoning.
My entire family lives on Braingle Street, and for some strange reason I got to choose where everyone lives.
My mother Vera lives at 2005 Braingle St.
My cousin Lucy lives at 1150 Braingle St.
Where do I live?
HintIf Lucy changed her name to Irene, she'd have to move to 1101 Braingle St.
AnswerThe addresses are based on the first letters of the residents' relations to me, converted to Roman Numerals.
My Mother Vera = MMV = 2005
My Cousin Lucy = MCL = 1150
This leaves "Me" living at 1000 Braingle Street.
I could also accept 1 Braingle St. (referring to myself as "I") as a valid answer.
What Next?
See another brain teaser just like this one...
Or, just get a random brain teaser
If you become a registered user you can vote on this brain teaser, keep track of
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text:
Buy Supagrill Instant Lumpwood Charcoal at Coals2U. Supagrill Lumpwood Charcoal is the cleaner, safer way to have a BBQ. Supagrill Instant Light Charcoal eliminates the need for firelighters or lighter fluid.
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text:
PENSACOLA, Fla. – The Saint Leo men's soccer team started 2013 on a high note after a hard-fought 1-0 victory over West Florida on Friday evening. The Lions benefitted from a Matt Campbell header goal that served as the difference-maker in the triumph.
After a scoreless first half, the Lions (1-0) began to push the ball further into Argonaut territory beginning the second stanza. The Lions benefitted from an Argo foul in the Saint Leo offensive third that allowed Michael Panter to push a free kick into the box which was headed home by Campbell in the 63rd minute.
The Green and Gold withheld the final barrage of shots from the Argos who played the final 10 minutes with just nine players after back-to-back red cards were shown to UWF.
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text:
Vince should bring back........
by, 05-23-2012 at 08:56 PM (5721 Views)
This is my first blog. I've been reading these blogs for a while and thought i'd try my hand at one. Let me know what you think.
Vince should bring back...........
Shane Douglas. Yeah I said it. Shane "The Franchise" Douglas.
Now before you crucify me with your comments, hear me out.
Now, I'm not talking about bringing him back as a wrestler, i want him back as a manager in sort of a Rick Flair in Evolution role. A role he could use to bring back his stable, THE Triple Threat. For those who don't know, The Triple Threat was a stable made up of Douglas and the late greats, Bam Bam Bigelow and Chris Candido.
Douglas was the first ever ECW champion. He was also one of the best, if not THE best, talkers in ECW. The promo where he threw down the ECW belt is still one of the best after match promos i've ever seen.
He could draw heat like it was no ones business. His feud with Tazz my have been the second best feud of the ECW days. (Right behind Tommy Dreamer and Raven). He had great matches with almost everyone he got in the ring with. He had two classic three way dances with Terry Funk and Sabu. The match from Hardcore Heaven '97 was on WWE Classics this month and still to this day it had me on the edge of my seat.
Recently he was throw out of a WWE show for promoting his recent show. I would use that as an angle for him. he could run in the ring during matches attacking. mid-card to low main event faces on both Raw and Smackdown. Through out the weeks he has destroyed the likes of Kofi Kingston, R- Truth, and Zack Ryder.
He finally gets and interview with Micheal Cole and lets the world in on his plan. he tells everyone that wrestling has gotten soft. Every week the product suffers because Vince is to worried about the fans and "being a star". He says its time for the WWE to get a little more "extreme". He announces that he will seek out three wrestlers, not "superstars", but wrestlers that will bring back the extreme factor into wrestling. Three who best embody what his Triple Threat had, A face( Douglas), a beast (Bigelow), and a superstar who needs no gimmicks (candido).
Through out the weeks we would see him in the back talking to different talent looking for the right mix of talent for his new incarnation of the Triple Threat. I would first have him chose his face of the group and who would be good for that? Dolph Ziggler.
After another match on Raw where Zigzag gets squashed gets squashed by the Brodus clay, i would have him and Vickie in the ring arguing. Along comes Douglas and tells Zig to lose the old lady and become a man. Zig leaves Vickie in the ring as she shrieks and cries.
On the following Smackdown i would have Douglas and Zig approach Mason Ryan and ask him why he still doesn't have a match, why he hasn't held a tittle. Douglas tells him to join them he he could become the beast that he was meant to become. Ryan thinks for a minute and decides to join them.
The next couple of weeks i would have Douglas, Ryan, and Ziggler running wild on both Raw and Smackdown, Defeating people with both clean and dirty wins. After each match i would have Douglas get the mic and use his pipe bomb gift.
Ziggler's win streak would gain him a world tittle match against Sheamus. Sheamus has seen how Ziggler has won his past matches and demands that Ryan and Douglas are barred from ringside which Ziggler reluctantly agrees to. During the course of the match Sheamus brogue kicks Ziggler into the ref and knocks him out. While the checking on the ref a hooded figure jumps out the crowd and grabs Sheamus by the head. he takes his hood and and its Cody Rhodes who hits Sheamus with a Cross Rhodes. Zigzag pins Sheamus for the three count. The PPV ends with Douglas, Ziggler, Ryan, and Rhodes throwing up the Triple Threat hand sign.


text:
You exercise your body to stay physically in shape, so why shouldn't you exercise your brain to stay mentally fit? With these daily exercises you will learn how to flex your mind, improve your creativity and boost your memory. As with any exercise, repetition is necessary for you to see improvement, so pick your favorite exercises from our daily suggestions and repeat them as desired. Try to do some mentalrobics every single day!
Alcohol consumption can cause several different memory problems. In one study it was shown that heavy drinkers have an increased risk of developing Alzheimer's disease and dementia later in life. This is probably due to the toxic effect that alcohol has on the neurons in your brain.
Alcohol can also cause Vitamin B deficiencies which can lead to a disorder called Korsakoff's syndrome which can result in permanent long-term memory loss.
Excessive alcohol consumption can also cause blackouts and memory loss. Some studies show that this is because alcohol inhibits the ability of memories to be transferred from short-term to long-term memory.
Some recent studies have shown that light drinking (up to one drink a day) may have a beneficial effect on memory, but the reasons for this are still unclear.
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text:
Results 1 to 20 of 22
Thread: Upgrading my processor
- Join Date
- Dec 2011
- Location
- London, England
- Posts
- 44
Upgrading my processor
Hey guys! I was wondering if you could help me.
I've got an AMD Phenom X4 9650 that has a speed of 2.3 GHz and I am looking to upgrade it to something more powerful. What do you recommend? I am looking price-wise at £50-£150.Steam name: Blankenhorne
- Join Date
- Jun 2012
- Posts
- 900
If you have an am2+ motherboard then you can upgrade to a phenom II (much faster).
Else you are shit out of luck and will need a new mobo (and new ram)
Phenom II's are a little hard to find, and they're a bit on the slow side by today's standards. Especially since AM2+ boards AFAIK usually don't support the most powerful phenom II's (the ones with a 125W TDP).
A platform upgrade - new motherboard and RAM in addition to a new CPU - will be more expensive but also bring far better results. More performance and more longevity; it's not much fun to just limp along for another year, compared to getting a good-as-new system that will last for 2-3+ years.
Not really specific advice (I'm not familiar with AMD CPU's), but what I did when I upgraded my old processor was looking at what CPU my motherboard could support, and searched for cheap 2nd hand ones at Ebay. Of course, 2nd hand buying isn't the safest bet, but it usually is quite a bit cheaper, thus making it worth the gamble.
Else the combination of mobo + CPU (+ RAM) Sakkura proposed is a good, but more expensive, option
I just recently did the same. I had a Phenom 9750 and upgraded to a Phenom II 965. Went without problems, BIOS-update and done. But I did watch out for an upgrade path before buying the mainboard a few years ago, so I knew my ASUS M3A32 MVP would be able to handle the new Phenoms.
And while Phenom IIs are a bit overpriced IMO (I paid about 90€), they are certainly not hard to find these days..
So the most important info would be what mainboard you have right now and if it can handle the new Phenoms. Because if they do I really recommend getting one, they're great.Steam-Id inside.
They're hard to find at retail. Second-hand may be a different story, but then second-hand is... second-hand.
For example, Newegg has 12 socket AM3 desktop processors for sale, of which 2 are Phenom IIs. One is a 965 BE which has a 125W TDP and is likely incompatible with the OP's rig, the other is a refurbished x2 511.
- Join Date
- Jun 2012
- Posts
- 900
Am2+ mobos do support them, all of them.
You wouldn't be limping with a good phenom II unless you have some crazy sli set up and a 120hz monitor....
Phenom II's are now really cheap last time I checked, hence why I suggested this is BY FAR the best bang for buck he could get if he has an am2 mobo....
Next you'll tell people with an i7 940 that they are limping too...
85 hz monitor here, there are only 3 games that don't run at 85 fps for me with a stock 3 core phenom II 720 BE. (tera, bf3 mp, sc2) and even those run fine. (40fps minimum , 60+ average)
I used to run at 3.4ghz but downclocked back to stock 2.8 because it really made fuck all difference in games with my gpu and I'd rather be able to set my fan to 500rpm while gaming than OC and have a noisy cpu fan for no reason.
The guy asked for the cheapest worthwhile upgrade, I gave him that if he has the right mobo.
You would have the poor fella immediately spend 300+ euros when for gaming he wouldn't be able to tell the difference for 90.
He can get his pc up to snuff for next to nothing and you'd have him spend an arm and a leg.
today's 'standards' haven't changed from those during the intel core i7 era and back then even an athlon 2 x4 was deemed sufficient.
OP IF you have an am2+ mobo your best bet is to look for a second hand phenom II 955BE (they cost like 50 euros or less) and you'll be set for another two years on the cpu side.
There's loads of muppets who upgraded to SB to boost their lousy gtx460s and hd 5770s so they should be easy to find.
For an all new build the i5 is great, but he can be a LOT cheaper off in his case...
Last edited by Finicky; 23-08-2012 at 09:59 PM.
A refurbished X2 511 qualifies as limping along to me.
- Join Date
- Jun 2012
- Posts
- 900
Moving goalposts, are we?
Why'd he buy that instead of a 955BE or better?
Pc store where I get my parts, 10+ in stock
Amazon, 57 stores listed
Please don't be ridiculous, AM3 socket cpus are not phased out yet they are for sale everywhere, there is less choice in the Phenom II lineup now but the important ones are still for sale.
OP: this is all in case you have an am2+ mobo:p else it's useless to you:p
If you want to be off cheap and don't have an am2+ mobo then you could look for a combo deal online for a cheap am2+ mobo (not am3 as am3 only supports ddr3 so you'd have to buy new ram) and phenom II and still be set for like 130 euros.
An i5 2500k would in that case also be a possible upgrade but you'd have to also get new ram then (total cost for mobo+ cpu + ram will be 300-350 euros)
edit: actually aren't the amd fx 4000 cpus about equal to a phenom II for gaming? I stopped paying attention to bulldozer when it turned out to be a dissapointment, perhaps those can also be a cheap alternative.
Edit 2 : a cheap SB mobo with one of the cheap intel g850 (similar performance to i3 and phenom II) may sound like a good idea because it uses the same socket as the i5-2500k.
-intel are dicks and make you buy the more expensive P or Z series motherboard if you want to be able to overclock the cpu (why else would you buy an i5 if you wouldn't oc it)
-you'd need new ram still
-it's questionable if you'll still be able to find Sandy bridge cpus in stores in 2-3 years when you want to upgrade from that G850 (by then SB will be 2 generations behind and most likely phased out)
Atm you either go for the low budget but capable phenom II's or the more than twice as expensive and powerful sandy bridge cpus, there is no real middleground.
DO know that the SB (i5 2500k) route is not mandatory for mid range pc gaming at the moment.
When the next consoles hit in a year and a half things might change with another hardware requirements jump for ports, but even that is unlikely.
Next consoles are rumored to use AMD jaguar cpus, which are shitty low voltage mobile cpus , less powerful than an i5 2500k.
Last edited by Finicky; 24-08-2012 at 11:21 PM.
As an example, I told you which ones were available from Newegg, and eliminated the one that may not be compatible with the OPs motherboard (965 BE, which would be a pretty good option if it's supported). We'll need to know what motherboard he has to check that.
As for FX-4xxx CPUs, yes they're on a similar level as the better phenom IIs. That's still quite a ways behind new Core i5's of course. For a platform upgrade I'd probably go with Intel at the moment, even in the budget segment.
If you do get an Intel platform today, you can get an Ivy Bridge CPU in the future if you want an upgrade. The motherboard chipsets for Sandy Bridge do support Ivy Bridge after a BIOS update (which needs to be performed with a Sandy Bridge CPU installed, but that's fine if you're upgrading from one of those). Or you could just buy a cheap Ivy Bridge chip (desktop Ivy Bridge Core i3's launch in two weeks). That could still be swapped out for a better Ivy Bridge CPU later, though they won't be around forever.
AMD have just revealed a set of price cuts on processors. The 955 BE and 965 BE both get price cuts of around 20%, so IF they're compatible with the OP's motherboard they just became even better deals.
but it usually is quite a bit cheaper, thus making it worth the gamble.
- Join Date
- Aug 2012
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- 6
- Join Date
- Dec 2011
- Location
- London, England
- Posts
- 44
Thank you guys for the suggestions. My mobo is a Foxconn RS740M03-8EKRS2H AMD Socket AM2. I've looked at all the AM2 options on the AMD website, but am a bit confused with all the numbers.
So what should I do, choose an AM2 processor, or get a new mobo and new processor?Steam name: Blankenhorne
but it usually is quite a bit cheaper, thus making it worth the gamble.
- Join Date
- Aug 2012
- Posts
- 6
AM2 processor +quick, easy, cheaper
- shorter term, lesser increase
New processor, motherboard, memory + long term solution, essentially having a new computer, possible huge increase
- expense, completely gutting your current machine
Personally I'd go for the latter, but that's me and not you.
With that low-end motherboard, you wouldn't be able to get the most out of the few real upgrade options available (Phenom X4 9950 etc.). I really think you'll need to look into upgrading the motherboard and RAM as well as the processor.
- Join Date
- Jun 2012
- Posts
- 900
NO am2+ mobo so you're going to have to gut your machine afterall it seems.
edit: the option for a cheap am2+ (not am3 or you need to replace ram) still exists btw, but it'll cost you 50 euros more than if you just needed a new cpu.
Thankfully ddr3 is quite cheap though.
If you can spend a lot then go for the i5 2500k...
Other alternatives for intel are
-the intel g850 (cheap dual core, that is about on par with phenom II in most games, though games that can use 4 cores will lag behind, I wouldn't get this but it's the lowest properly viable budget option for intel)
Now that the phenom II is discounted it's an even less interesting buy for a budget build.
-i3 2100, costs as much as a phenom II cpu (mobo cost still higher), very fast for a dual core stock BUUUUT can't be overclocked at all (fuckin' intel douchebags locking cpus completely) and imo far from an ideal solution for long term : just like with c2duo buyers got fucked because once cpu dependant games can saturate 4 Phenom II cores the phenom II would still be a faster option. c2duo buyers had to buy new cpus, q2quad buyers are still more than set for gaming.
Right now this thing is faster than a Phenom II core for core and clock for clock but the phenom II clocks much higher and has 4 cores....
Good news is you'd have an upgrade path to the i5 later (but since that is going to inevitable I consider buying an i3 instead of the i5 2500k a waste of however many dollars the i3 costs., just pay the extra 100 and get the i5 right now then)
Conslusion: with intel if you want any value you are pretty much forced to go for broke and get the expensive p series mobo (for example asus P8H61-M) + i5 2500k combination. It is attractive because it is a fast cpu that overclocks well, if you have the money.
Amd would still be the fx4000 and bulldozer mobo or am3 mobo + phenom II (now with discount) depending on which is cheaper.
You could shell down an extra 20 for the 6 core phenom II, who knows maybe games will be able to use them by the time the quad core would become outdated, nobody knows right now.
The real problem tbh is that amd bulldozer (amd FX, the successor of phenom II)turned out to be complete dogshit.
And also that Intel smelled money and kept their Sandy Bridge prices high, slacked off with ivy bridge performance and that they are complete bellends by charging more for motherboards and cpus that allow overclocking, and lock down their lower end cpus to widen the gap with their high end ones.... (+ the fact that you always pay a premium for intel motherboards for some bollox reason).
Imo you should decide for yourself how much you want to spend, we have laid out and spelled out the options.
No matter what you buy (am2+ and phenom II, i5 + ddr3+ p8 mobo, amd fx4xxx + bulldozer mobo + ram) , you missed out on 2-3 years of usage value by buying either this late in their lifecycle.
Would have been a no brainer (phenom II) if your mobo had been fine, now it just depends on what you want to spend, the return will be equal to that.
Last edited by Finicky; 26-08-2012 at 10:43 PM.
Why are you so dead set on Core i5-2500k?
Also, Intel didn't "slack off" with Ivy Bridge, they realised the expected IPC improvement and reduced power draw. Ivy Bridge is a tick (die shrink), not a tock (new architecture). They do keep their prices high, but they've rarely been budget-friendly, and their products are worth every penny compared to AMDs products (like the FX series). The only real letdown is the i5-3570k, which seems to have a cheaper material under the heatspreader than the i5-2500k.
The "bollocks" reason you usually pay more for Intel motherboards is that they're usually better. Like better SATA controllers that outperform AMD's or third-party implementations (ASMedia, Marvell), or USB3.0 that's actually significantly faster than USB2.0.
PS: While you only advocate the Core i3-2100 half-heartedly, it's still poor advice when its successor is being launched literally next week.
Last edited by Sakkura; 26-08-2012 at 11:54 PM.
- Join Date
- Jun 2012
- Posts
- 900
And I told him not to get an i3. (for the same reason people shouldn't have gotten a c2duo)
But no really, tell me what other intel cpu you'd suggest he get than the 2500K, go on.
Ivy Bridge does cost more than Sandy Bridge, but only a little more. And that lines up perfectly well with the small performance increase. Gee, it's almost like they planned this out.
Once Sandy Bridge gets retired, Ivy Bridge will hopefully gradually become cheaper. Though, with the lack of competition from AMD, that could go slower than usual or not happen at all. It's normal for new hardware to be introduced at a relatively high price point and then gradually become cheaper over its lifecycle, until it gets replaced by something better and more expensive.
There are other worthwhile Intel products than the i5-2500k. For example, there's a nice thing called the Core i5-3470. It's $199.99 at the egg, which is 20 dollars cheaper than the 2500k. There's also the Core i5-2310 at $179.99. Sure, they don't overclock much - 4 bins = 400 MHz. But then you probably won't need the overclock anyway, because they're fast enough for most things out there - especially the 3470. And not overclocking means you can use the stock heat sink and save another $30+.
Last edited by Sakkura; 27-08-2012 at 01:15 AM.


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What It's Like to Live With An Eating Disorder: 10 Women Share Their Stories
In honor of National Eating Disorder Awareness week, meet ten inspirational women who have battled eating disorders.
-Diana Denza
This week marks National Eating Disorder Awareness Week (NEDAW). Whether you're a survivor, know someone who has struggled with one, or have simply learned of its devastating effects, eating disorders have a very real impact on all of our lives — nearly ten million women in this country struggle with an eating disorder, according to a National Eating Disorder Association Fact sheet updated in July 2010. To put that into perspective, Los Angeles County, the largest in the United State, has a population of roughly the same number.
Sadly, though the statistics are devastatingly high, misconceptions about those with eating disorders continue to thrive.
"There are many misconceptions about eating disorders," explained Susie Roman, Program Director of NEDA (nationaleatingdisorders.org). "But the myth that they are a lifestyle choice, rather than a serious disorder, is very dangerous, and one of the key reasons we hold National Eating Disorders Awareness Week. Education about the fact that they are complex, biologically-mediated illnesses with serious health consequences is vital for getting people to the help they need."
With a theme of "Everybody Knows Somebody," this year's NEDAW is a vital time to spread awareness and support for those harboring eating disorders. If you or someone you know is struggling with one, you can call NEDA at 1-800-931-2237 for more information and help.
In honor of this week of change, ten incredible women who have lived through eating disorders shared their stories with us — and now, with you. It's time for all of us to put an end to the stigma and misconceptions.
Meet PJ Gach, BettyConfidential.com's Style + Beauty Editor:
"You must embrace your life, your soul, you…you have to honor and respect yourself, even and especially if no one else does. Denying yourself food is denying yourself life."
PJ Gach, BettyConfidential.com's own style + beauty editor, lives and works in New York City to bring Bettys everywhere the best in fashion and beauty. She was just 11 years old when her eating disorder first started.
What your day to day struggles with your eating disorder like?
I used to imagine that there were needles and cut glass in my food so that I wouldn't eat. At dinner, I'd stare at my plate.
Did you receive professional help?
Sort of — my doctor was flummoxed and felt that I would grow out of it. There would be periods when I ate normally, and period when I would binge. I come from a family where one doesn't talk about problems or issues. Everything is fine. Everything is lovely. Everyone is doing well. Obviously that's bullshit.
What was your breaking point?
In college, I was around 80 pounds. My hipbones literally jutted out of my clothing. I kept thinking it was sexy and it wasn't. One day –I didn't have an epiphanous moment –- I just started eating.
What was the most difficult part of your recovery process?
Not hating myself. Seriously –I realized along the way that I was punishing myself for not being popular, for not being tall, for a lot of things out of my control. You become anorexic because you feel like you have control over something and that is your body. It wasn't until I realized I wasn't the enemy that I began to make peace with myself.
To this day I keep a mental chart of what I eat on a daily basis. I always keep track of what I eat. And if I have something sweet, I know I can't eat something else. It's an ongoing battle. It's pretty normal for me to deny hunger until I'm shaking. You never fully recover from anorexia.
What would you tell people today who are suffering from eating disorders of their own?
That food isn't your enemy. That everyone isn't your enemy, that life isn't your enemy. You must embrace your life, your soul; you have to honor and respect yourself, even and especially if no one else does. Denying yourself food is denying yourself life. Nothing changes when you get down to 80 or 70 pounds, nothing gets better. Screw them all. Happiness is the best revenge against the people who you perceive to be your enemy. Truth to tell, they don't care. Live your own life for yourself and screw anyone who says "no" or "you're not good enough."
What did you wish more people knew about eating disorders?
That it's not a choice. That it's not a fun diet. It's an illness and people die from it.
Meet Cara Bledsoe:
"People in our country think being thin is almost always a good thing, and it just is not true."
Cara Bledsoe is a 33-year-old freelance writer. Her eating disorder began at the young age of 15.
What were your day to day struggles with your eating disorder like?
I struggled with anorexia and bulimia for years, so it varied a lot. I lived a lot of my life in a binge/starve cycle (starve for four days, then eat for three, or something like this). In my 20s when I relapsed, I exercised about three hours a day while eating a very limited diet of "safe" foods. I dropped weight pretty fast. I was in "no excuses" mode, meaning if it was 11 pm and I had to get up at 6am (to work out before work started), but I hadn't done my 600 crunches, then I'd force myself to get out of bed and do them, because otherwise I'd be too anxious to sleep anyway.
When did you first realize that you had an eating disorder?
I didn't really realize it until college, and by then I'd been bulimic for year –- not throwing up as much as it was binge/starve, but it's all bad. And to a degree I was doing it all.
How did it affect your body and emotional well-being?
I was a very isolated person. I had my routines and it felt safest to stick with those. I didn't like to see people and I worried incessantly about how I looked to others. My body…well, it was fine then, but now I have osteopenia, recurring stress fractures, GERD, degenerative osteoarthritis, and more physical ailments that can be related back to lack of nutrients and/or exercise addiction.
Were you stigmatized or alienated for having an eating disorder? How did that feel?
Not really –the odd –and scary– thing is that when I was thinner, I got compliments. A lot of compliments. Partially this is because I was never skeletal, just a little too thin. In our society, sadly, that is seen is a good thing, never mind that I was completely insane and doing physical damage to myself that would last for the rest of my life.
What effect did your eating disorder have on your personal relationships?
I really had a hard time getting close to people for a very long time. I couldn't focus on anything but calories, fat, exercise, weight etc., and I didn't really want to.
How has your eating disorder changed your life?
I think the biggest way it's changed my life is that I'm 33 and I have the medical problems of a 63 year old — osteopenia, degenerative osteoarthritis, and more. It's permanent damage. Plus, I've spent enough on treatment over the years that I could have put a hefty down payment on a house, and instead I'm in debt. I'd give anything to have that time and money back.
Did you receive professional help for your eating disorder?
Yes –- therapy, nutritionist, medication, psychiatrist, and 12 step meetings.
What was your breaking point?
I was lucky to work for someone amazing in my 20s who noticed what was going on and sent me to a therapist she knew who specialized in eating disorders. She really saved my life.
What was the most difficult part of your recovery process?
Gaining weight and people having the perception of me "letting myself go" when in fact it was quite the opposite. I was finally able to be a normal, happy person not focused on her appearance all the time.
What was a common misconception others had of you?
I was so healthy because I ate such healthy foods and exercised so much. Health can be a lot of things, but I wasn't healthy. People in our country think being thin is almost always a good thing, and it just is not true.
What did you wish more people knew about eating disorders?
You don't have to look like a skeleton to be really, really sick.


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Cool Drinks for a Hot Day!
Our intern Jenny Kessman has a very timely story in today's paper: Cool drinks! She visited 6 local spots and recommends her favorites. Take it away, Jenny! The Miami Vice Smoothie at Beanberry's Cafe in New Rochelle. Carucha Meuse/The Journal News The kind of blistering heat predicted for this week… Read More →


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Did you know?
James Kitching is celebrated in Nieu Bethesda and in a University of the Witwatersrand gallery, among other places.
As you walk around the Kitching Fossil Exploration Centre in the Karoo village of Nieu-Bethesda, you will see, amongst all the grinning skulls of ancient beasts, a battered old hat on display under glass.
That was the hat of the man who helped confirm the theory of continental drift, that Africa once belonged to the same land mass as Australia, Antarctica and the Americas. That same man had an ancient lizard-like species named after him when he was only a lad of seven. He was also known as the 'grand old man of Karoo palaeontology'. He was James Kitching, South Africa's 'Indiana Jones' of old-bone detectives.
He grew up in what is generally known as the 'palaeontological paradise' of South Africa, the mountains and valleys around Nieu Bethesda in the Eastern Cape. His dad was Croonie Kitching, a local road builder, who was always collecting bones and stones during his working day.
Croonie roped young James in to hunt for fossils, and he soon found his first new species, which was then named Youngopsis kitchingi.
After World War II, James Kitching went to work as a fossil hunter for the brand-new Bernard Price Institute for Palaeontological Research at the University of the Witwatersrand in Johannesburg. But his real 'office' was 800km south, in the vastness of the Karoo.
For decades, working on more than 900 sites, Kitching and his devoted field staff combed the Karoo for fossils. He was also famous for growing fresh vegetables and sourcing the best meat cuts wherever he camped. Visitors would describe a Kitching camp as being a beautiful little patch of green in the middle of the brown Karoo.
James Kitching developed a deep insight into life in the Permian Period, populated by mammal-like reptiles called therapsids. He was almost super-human in his ability to spot a fossil lurking deep in a rock formation. This was a crucial time, more than 251-million years ago, when reptiles were about to evolve into mammals. And Kitching was onto their case.
At one stage there was a lot of debate about whether Gondwana (South America, southern Africa and Antarctica in one continent) had ever existed. So Kitching was recruited to fly down to Antarctica and look for fossils common to both continents.
And it was there, on a rocky shelf with snow falling all about, that he found the fossilised skeleton of Thrinaxodon, just like the one he had found near Bethulie in the southern Free State province of South Africa.
Interviewed by the prestigious New Scientist magazine in 1996, Kitching had this to say about the length and breadth of his travels: 'My colleagues here tell me I've walked the equivalent of three times round the globe, but I don't believe them. I'd say it was only about once round the world...'
Travel tips & Planning info
Who to contact
Kitching Fossil Exploration Centre
Contact: Bruce Rubidge
Tel: +27 (0)11 717 6682
Email: email@example.com
Nieu-Bethesda accommodation
Tel: +27 (0) 49 841 1642
Email: firstname.lastname@example.com
How to get here
Nieu-Bethesda lies 30km west of the N9 between Middelburg and Graaff-Reinet. Going south from Middelburg, you drive 55km before turning right at the sign to Nieu-Bethesda. The Kitching Fossil Exploration Centre is in Martin Street, right next to the famous Owl House.
Best time to visit
Nieu-Bethesda looks lovely in the mid-winter (July) snowfalls, but then there is often no access to the village at this time. Best times to visit are spring (September to October) and autumn (April to May).
Around the area
Go on a day drive to Graaff-Reinet and the Mountain Zebra National Park outside Cradock.
Tours to do
Karoo Connections does tours to the Valley of Desolation outside Graaff-Reinet and other destinations.
Get around
There are bus tours that occasionally pass through Nieu-Bethesda, but it's probably best to have your own car.
What will it cost
General admission to the centre: R20; Admission to the Owl House and the centre: R45.
Length of stay
Set aside an hour for the centre – set aside 3 days if you can for Nieu-Bethesda and environs.
What to pack
If it's summer, go light. In winter, pack lots of very warm clothes. Nieu-Bethesda enjoys extreme weather, depending on the season - it's very hot in summer and very cold in winter.
Where to stay
Ian and Katrien Allemann at the Karoo Lamb Restaurant in Martin Street have a number of self-catering accommodation options available – including a popular backpackers' lodge.
What to eat
Breakfast at Karoo Lamb, lunch at Two Goats Deli or Aunty Evelyne's, possibly dinner at the Tower Café.
What's happening
Check the listed Nieu-Bethesda website for details of their mid-winter party, the Fugard Festival and the New Year's Eve Lantern Festival.
Best buys
Draft beer from the Sneeuberg Brewery is always a wonderful purchase.


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Brooklyn Museum's Target First Saturday Series Continues Today, 10/6
Today, October 6, 2012 Target First Saturday, the Brooklyn Museum embraces the artwork of one of Brooklyn's celebrated artist Mickalene Thomas. Connect with Thomas through her work and cultural activities throughout the day in connection with the exhibition Mickalene Thomas: Origin of the Universe. The Brooklyn Museum's Target First Saturday attracts thousands of visitors to free art and entertainment programs each month. The October highlights include:
5-7:30 p.m. Music: Music: Candice Anitra blends poetry and melody in edgy, electro-rock-infused songs.
5-8 p.m. Action Station: Have your photo taken against a scene from one of Mickalene Thomas's works.
6 p.m. Performance: Brooklyn-based artists Latasha N. Nevada Diggs, Beatrice Anderson, and Jamie Philbert present a multimedia performance of spoken word and music inspired by Mickalene Thomas. Free tickets available at the Visitor Center at 5 p.m.
6-8 p.m. Gallery Talks: Museum Guides and Educators lead thought-provoking discussions on works from the Museum's collection.
6:30-8:30 Hands-on Art: Use sumptuous, plush embellishments to create a collage inspired by Mickalene Thomas. Free tickets are available at the Visitor Center at 5:30 p.m.
6:30 p.m. Artist Talk: G. Lucas Crane creates a live sonic collage and discusses the parallels between his soundscapes and Thomas's visual collage technique. Free tickets available at the Visitor Center at 5:30 p.m.
7 p.m. Book Club: Harmony Holiday , recipient of the 2011 Motherwell Prize for her book of poetry Negro League Baseball, reads selections from her work, which pushes the boundaries of language, evoking imagery and musicality.
8 p.m. Fashion Show: Show off your best 70s-inspired threads on the catwalk.
8:30 p.m. Performance: Nucomme and the Curators present a musical tribute to Betty Mabry Davis, ex-wife and muse of MiLes Davis and innovator of jazz-funk fusion.
9 p.m. Forum: Mickalene Thomas's art is influenced by her mother; visitors are invited to share stories about the mother figures who have been influential in their lives.
Throughout the evening, a cash bar will offer beer and wine, and the Museum Café will serve a wide variety of sandwiches, salads, and beverages. The Museum Shop will remain open until 10 p.m.
Museum admission is free from 5 to 10 p.m. and includes entrance to all galleries and events. Programs subject to change without notice. Some Target First Saturday programs have limited space and are ticketed on a first-come, first-served basis. Lines for free tickets often form thirty minutes in advance. For more information, visit www.brooklynmuseum.org. Parking is a flat rate of $4 from 5 to 10 p.m.


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Long-time Liberals, star candidates and a few cabinet ministers fell in Monday night's historic vote
Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff lost his own seat in Etobicoke-Lakeshore to local Conservative Bernard Trottier.
(Frank Gunn/Frank Gunn/THE CANADIAN PRESS)
Bloc Quebecois Leader Gilles Duceppe lost his seat in Laurier-Saint-Marie to NDP candidate Helene Laverdiere. He announced his resignation as party leader after the Bloc was reduced to just three seats from 47.
(Graham Hughes/THE CANADIAN PRESS)
Liberal incumbent Gerard Kennedy gets a hug from daughter Theria after his defeat to the NDP candidate Peggy Nash in the Toronto riding of Parkdale-High Park.
(Moe Doiron/Moe Doiron/The Globe and Mail)
York Centre Liberal incumbent Ken Dryden fell to Conservative Mark Adler.
(Fernando Morales/Fernando Morales/The Globe and M)
Conservative cabinet minister Jean-Pierre Blackburn, seen in this 2010 file photo, lost his seat in Jonquiere-Alma.
(CHRIS WATTIE/REUTERS/Chris Wattie)
Former foreign affairs minister Lawrence Cannon conceded defeat to NDP candidate Mathieu Ravignat in the Quebec riding of Pontiac, May 2.
(FRED CHARTRAND/Fred Chartrand/THE CANADIAN PRESS)
Ruby Dhalla, the Liberal incumbent in the riding of Brampton-Springdale, was unable to hold on to her seat, losing to Conservative candidate Parm Gill.
(Fred Lum/Fred Lum/The Globe and Mail)
Vancouver South Liberal incumbent Ujjal Dosanjh makes his way through media at his campaign headquarters after conceding defeat to Conservative Wai Young May 2.
(Brett Beadle/Brett Beadle for The Globe and Mail)
Liberal incumbent Martha Hall Findlay, seen in this 2008 file photo, lost her seat in the riding of Willowdale to Conservative Chungsen Leung.
(Adrian Wyld/Adrian Wyld/The Canadian Press)
Former Conservative cabinet minister-turned-independant candidate Helena Guergis lost the race for Simcoe-Grey to Conservative Kellie Leitch.
(Fred Lum/Fred Lum/The Globe and Mail)
Liberal incumbent Mark Holland lost a hard-fough battle for Ajax-Pickering to Conservative candidate and former ambassador to Afghanistan Chris Alexander.
(Darren Calabrese/Darren Calabrese for The Globe and Mail)
Conservative cabinet minister Gary Lunn, seen in this 2009 file photo, lost his seat in Saanich-Gulf Islands to Green Party Leader Elizabeth May.
(STEPHANIE LAMY/STEPHANIE LAMY/AFP/Getty Images)
Conservative cabinet minister Josee Verner, seen in the House of Commons in this Feb. 10, 2011 file photo, lost her seat to NDP opponent Alexandrine Latendresse in the riding of Louis-Saint-Laurent.
(CHRIS WATTIE/REUTERS/Chris Wattie)
After 23 years as Liberal MP for the Toronto riding of Eglinton-Lawrence, Joe Volpe (seen in this 2009 file photo) lost his seat to Conservative Joe Oliver.
(Adrian Wyld/The Canadian Press)
Conservative incumbent Dona Cadman, seen in this 2008 file photo, fell to NDP candidate Jasbir Sandhu.
(Jeff Vinnick/Jeff Vinnick for The Globe and Mail)
Liberal Paul Szabo, seen in a 2008 file photo, lost his seat Mississauga South to Conservative Stella Ambler. Mr. Szabo had represented the riding for 17 years.
(Tom Hanson/Tom Hanson/The Canadian Press)
Indepedant incumbent Andre Arthur was outsed by NDP candidate Elaine Michaud In Portneuf-Jacques-Cartier. (File photo of March 16, 2011).
(THE CANADIAN PRESS/Jacques Boissinot)
Liberal House Leader Marc Garneau seen in this 2010 file photo.
(Adrian Wyld/Adrian Wyld/THE CANADIAN PRESS)


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Note: This item is more than 12 years old. Please take the publication date into consideration for any date references.
Print – Plain Text – Permalink
News Release
Media Contact: TPWD News, firstname.lastname@example.com, 512-389-8030
June 13, 2005
New Report Details Water Needs of Sabine Lake Estuary
PORT ARTHUR, Texas — A new report by state scientists documents the amount of freshwater inflows from the Sabine River watershed needed to sustain the Sabine Lake ecosystem, a vital resource that supports dozens of fish and wildlife species and is worth millions of dollars per year to the regional economy.
Texas Parks and Wildlife Department and the Texas Water Development Board recently completed the report "Freshwater Inflow Recommendation for the Sabine Lake Estuary of Texas and Louisiana."
The report recommends 9.6 million acre-feet as the amount of flow for the Sabine Lake system. (An acre-foot is the amount of water it takes to flood an acre a foot deep.) This recommended flow is actually far less than the average flow that the system receives every year based on historical records. Sabine Lake receives by far the largest inflows of any bay system in the state because of the relatively high rainfall throughout the eastern parts of Texas which flows into its drainage basin.
"Factors such as drought or flood constantly change the rules in natural systems such as these, and are actually a key part of their proper functioning," said Larry McKinney, Ph.D., and TPWD coastal fisheries director.
"Thus, the recommendation is provided only as a target rather than as a strict requirement which must be met every year. TPWD's main goal is for water to be managed so that recommended inflows are provided frequently enough to maintain the system's productivity while also providing for other human needs."
Located on the coastal border between Texas and Louisiana, Sabine Lake is actually a coastal bay which hosts a multitude of recreationally popular fish and wildlife species such as speckled trout, redfish, canvasback ducks and Canada geese.
In 2001, saltwater recreational anglers statewide spent approximately $600 million in Texas, generating a total economic impact of about $1.3 billion, according to the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service.
The bay also supports a healthy commercial fishery for shrimp, menhaden and other species. In 2001, 4,180 pounds of finfish worth $57,059 and 1,420,147 pounds of shellfish worth $1,175,874 were landed in Sabine Lake.
Besides the lake itself, the expansive wetlands along the edges of much of it also rely on freshwater inflows and provide key habitat for many other species, such as crabs, muskrats, river otters, ibises and great blue herons.
In 1985 the Texas Legislature directed TPWD and TWDB to determine the beneficial freshwater inflow needs for major Texas estuaries. To that end, state scientists consider historical river flows, local rainfall, salinity (salt content in sea water), nutrients, and fisheries needs as well as other components in calculating the freshwater inflows that will sustain a healthy bay.
To request a copy of the report, contact Nathan Kuhn, a TPWD biologist and primary author of the report, at email@example.com or (512) 912-7016.
Publication — Permission is granted to publish, in whole or in part, any news releases on this page.
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(5.4.16 i)


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I used to smoke before I got pregnant. I wonder what are the causes of smoking while doing breast feeding?
I used to smoke before I got pregnant. I wonder what are the causes of smoking while doing breast feeding?
I would encourage you not to smoke while you are breastfeeding and not to smoke around your child because your child will reap the bad effects of smoking by just breathing your second hand smoke.
But what I want you to understand even more is what you are putting into your body, into your breastmilk, when you smoke.
A cigarette has more than 4,000 ingredients in it other than tobacco and 60 of those ingredients are carcinogens which means they cause cancer. Just a few of them are arsenic which is rat poison, cyanide which is a deadly poison, acetone which is a polish remover and theres an insecticide called DDT which has been banned in many countries and has caused sterility. Those are just a few of the 60 poisonous ingredients that youre putting into your body when you smoke.
I hope that information alone is enough to motivate you not to smoke again because if you do choose to smoke those chemicals will go into every cell of your body, including your "egg" cells. When you don't produce a high quality egg, the baby created from that egg (and your husband's sperm) could end up being born with a disease or a disability.
It's best to protect your eggs and your baby by avoiding cigarettes and second hand smoke.
Please let me know if you need any further information to help you protect yourself and your baby from the damages of cigarettes.
Warm regards,
I am glad you no longer smoke fmadrigal - because, as Kate says above, the negative effects of smoking are widespread and long-lasting for both mother and child. I hope you are able to continue to not smoke and do remember there are lots of support groups/counselling/hypnotherapy sessions out there if you start to struggle with this. Smoking around children/babies in general has been shown to:
-very worryingly, increase the risk of cot death
-increase the chance of suffering from infections and childhood illnesses
-dramatically increase the chance of a child later developing lung cancer
-make it more likely to suffer with allergies
and, unfortunately, so the list goes on.
In terms of breastfeeding specifically, studies show that smoking breastfeeding mums:
-produce less breast milk
-have less iodine in their breast milk (which is a nutritional requirement for babies)
-are more likely to wean earlier
-have problems with let-down
I hope this information is helpful for you.
Best wishes,
I do want to thank all of you who replied with my questions. I will definitely continue not to smoke because I am afraid that it might be the reason if ever my child will get ill, which I hope not since I was smoking before I got pregnant. Well, those are very informative and thank you again.
I'm glad this information was helpful for you fmadrigal. Well done on continuing to not smoke and please let us know if you need any more support with this.
Best wishes,


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Go from where you are to where you want to be
Hammer Training & Fitness is Allentown, Pennsylvania's one-of-a-kind, neo-fitness facility that couples a full health club, elite martial arts training center, and mind body studio. Centrally located in the Lehigh Valley, Hammer Training & Fitness is the home of American Top Team (ATT) and offers a wide variety of Personal Training memberships, Gym memberships and Martial Arts training packages to meet, expand, or accelerate your fitness goals. The basic gym membership at Hammer Training & Fitness includes use of all cardio equipment, machines, and free weights. The ultimate gym membership includes everything that the basic gym membership includes plus use of martial arts equipment, including heavy bags and the matted class rooms during non-class times, plus unlimited Boot Camp and Fight Fit classes. With the Martial Arts memberships, members can mix-and-match the ultimate gym package with a specific number of classes per week including: Mixed Martial Arts (MMA), Muay Thai Kickboxing, Boxing, Isshin Ryu Karate, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu (BJJ), and Grappling! Personal Training and Private Martial Arts Lessons are available for fitness, athletic performance training, and martial arts.
Hammer Training & Fitness also boasts three large open mat areas, a full MMA cage, a Boxing ring, an MMA ring, over 50 heavy bags, sprint track, kettle bells, exercise bands, olympic rings, flat and hanging ropes, tractor tires, water jugs, and lots more!
We are the Lehigh Valley's one-stop training center for someone who is looking to get in incredible shape, any fitness enthusiast, seasoned athlete, or martial artist.
To become a member, try a free week, or get a tour of Hammer Training & Fitness, stop in and see us, contact us online, or call (610) 841-7010 now!