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Snapdragon 800 (MSM8974) Performance Preview: Qualcomm Mobile Development Tablet Testedby Brian Klug on 6/18/2013 8:00 PM EST
115 Comments
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akbisw - Tuesday, June 18, 2013 - linkYESSS!!! THANK YOU QUALCOMM exactly What I expected!!! Reply
Piano Man - Tuesday, June 18, 2013 - linkNice performance, but the lack of power utilization benchmarks prevents me from breaking out the party favors for the time being. Reply
clemsyn - Tuesday, June 18, 2013 - linkI agree, power utilization and heat are very important in mobile. Hope this don't come with a fan :) Reply
Xilliox - Wednesday, June 19, 2013 - linkI have been working on this for a long time, trust me, it does not need a fan! Reply
FwFred - Tuesday, June 18, 2013 - linkComparing phones to a tablet is a bit odd. Glad there was a Nexus 10 at least. Reply
kcsween - Wednesday, June 19, 2013 - linkYou all almost sound like this is Qualcomm's first go at making a mobile processor. I'd find it very hard to believe that they'd not take into consideration power consumption and heat or any other negative factors they considered when they made their other chips. Having said that, all that could be out the door in the race bigger and better, who knows. Guess we all will have to wait and see how this things performs in an actual smartphone. Reply
arkhamasylum87 - Tuesday, June 18, 2013 - linkHow does this compare to the Ivybridge or Haswell Y series processors in terms of CPU/GPU performance? Would like to see those comparisons. So we can extrapolate how this will compare to a fanless Core product from Intel. The gap is there in terms of connectivity but the perf gaps on CPU/GPU would be interesting to note. Reply
teiglin - Tuesday, June 18, 2013 - linkIvy Y no longer seems interesting to me but for the moment, Haswell 15W (both HD4600/5000) would be super interesting to add to the "great equalizer" page of charts. Doesn't Anand have an Acer with i7-4500U as well as the MBA with i5-4250U? Demand he run some benchmarks for you so you can update those charts. The comparison to i5-3317U made sense against APQ8064T, but 8974's contemporary is Haswell, not Ivy.
And when you have Haswell Y samples, those would be neat, too. :) Reply
jeffkro - Wednesday, June 19, 2013 - link15W still requires a fan. Reply
sna1970 - Tuesday, July 09, 2013 - linknot really,
the Haswell can run from 6 watts up to 15 watts. Reply
Glindon - Tuesday, June 18, 2013 - linkI wonder how Rouge is going to compare to this. My guess is Apple will ship a rouge powered iPhone and iPad before devices start shipping with Qualcomm. Reply
xTRICKYxx - Wednesday, June 19, 2013 - linkDo you mean Rogue? Reply
Glindon - Wednesday, June 19, 2013 - linkDoh! Yeah, Rogue. Reply
MrCommunistGen - Tuesday, June 18, 2013 - link*Drool* I also love the level of transparency we're getting from Qualcomm even compared to a product cycle or two ago. Reply
bleh0 - Tuesday, June 18, 2013 - linkFrom what I'm seeing here this an amazing chip overall. That GPU really surprised me but I'm gonna wait till the battery life/power draw can be tested. Reply
nunomoreira10 - Tuesday, June 18, 2013 - linkif this thing keeps it´s power restrained to 3-4 watts the gpu perfomance per watts is astonishing. Reply
Alketi - Tuesday, June 18, 2013 - linkWow, crushing performance. Two things stand-out.
1. It's beating it's almost doubling it's closest Android competitor on some benchmarks.
2. A 1-year old Apple chip is still killing some benchmarks.
Way more exciting than the ~15% x86 gains / year.
One thing's for sure, the upcoming ARM-based HTPC's are going to absolutely kick ass. Reply
jeffkro - Wednesday, June 19, 2013 - linkThe hardware is getting there for ARM HTPC but we need an Android OS with DVR functionality. Reply
karasaj - Tuesday, June 18, 2013 - linkAnd this is why I'm dying to get an internship with Qualcomm next summer... they're going to become the Intel of mobile :) Reply
tuxRoller - Tuesday, June 18, 2013 - linkThey already are. Look at they're market cap. Reply
althaz - Tuesday, June 18, 2013 - link*Their*
I'm not sure you could call them the Intel of Mobile. There's a couple of key differences - the first and most obvious being that Intel is leading in x86 IPC, power management and, this is the big difference, manufacturing. Intel won't and can't go away because they have a tangible advantage over their competitors that will require incredible investment to overcome.
The other is that Qualcomm have a large slice of an ever-increasing pie, but Intel have basically the whole x86 cake to themselves, with the crumbs falling to AMD.
It's probably also worth mentioning that Qualcomm seem better at producing the right improvements for consumers, wheras Intel were late to the low-power party and slow to get going on graphics to (although both are clear foci of the company now).
Interestingly, I believe Qualcomm's mobile division is basically AMD/ATI's old mobile division, which they didn't think was worth it to keep. That's looking a like a pretty huge mistake right now. Reply
tuxRoller - Wednesday, June 19, 2013 - linkThanks for the grammar correction, teach. Now that I know it any way you can teach it to my phones keyboard? Grammar is useful for helping to avoid ambiguity but the previous could only be understood one way. IOW, your correction wasn't needed unless you were just being anal.
You make some good points and it's clear that not clear what it means when someone says "X is the Intel of Y". Intel using their fab is certainly a part of their success. That they are THE key x86 player is, I think, the more important touchstone. It was that which I was speaking of when I spoke of them. I THINK they are, by far, the biggest, most profitable supplier of ARM based SoC in the world. Samsung is huge but they consume what they make. TI is leaving the mobile field and haven't had a major design win for awhile.
BTW you're right about ATI and adreno but the 300+ series is vastly different from the architectures Qualcomm inherited from ATI. Reply
FwFred - Tuesday, June 18, 2013 - linkVery inconclusive without any power measurements. In its tablet reference form factor certainly beats modern SoCs in phone form factors. I'd like to see it against Tegra 4, Bay Trail, and Haswell (4.5W SDP) in a tablet form factor. Reply
grahaman27 - Tuesday, June 18, 2013 - linkI second that. Reply
aryonoco - Wednesday, June 19, 2013 - linkI agree, I want to see it next to Tegra 4, Bay Trail, and also Kabini and Temash.
But I have to say, it looks good, really good. Especially that GPU.
To think that Adreno was AMD/ATI's embedded graphics division that AMD didn't think was worth anything and sold for peanuts (something like $30M IIRC) to Qualcomm. Dirk Meyer really ruined that company. Reply
FwFred - Wednesday, June 19, 2013 - linkDoh, totally forgot about Temash. I was trying to think of all the fanless tablet SoCs coming out. Reply
wsw1982 - Thursday, June 20, 2013 - linkThe engadget has the benchmark for snapdragon on phone and tablet. It can be seen that the snapdragon 800 is very fast in tablet setup, but only little bit faster than snapdragon 600 in phone setup. I guess this partly answered your TDP concern.
http://www.engadget.com/2013/06/18/qualcomm-snapdr... Reply
iwod - Tuesday, June 18, 2013 - linkI Love the Equalizer Part. Finally we have some sense of how far we are from Mainstream Desktop Performance. Would be great if Haswell were added to the Chart, and a UL Haswell running at similar Power usage in there as well. ( Although i believe Intel would properly pressure Anand not to have done so ) Reply
Impulses - Wednesday, June 19, 2013 - linkCan't believe how far behind Atom's GPU is at this point and how long Intel sandbagged the market with it...
I've been rather disconnected from the Android news/rumor mill, any chance Snapdragon makes it into the next small Nexus tablet design? I really wanna downsize/upgrade from my OG Transformer... Reply
Impulses - Wednesday, June 19, 2013 - linkMeant Snapdragon 800, obviously. Reply
Bob Todd - Wednesday, June 19, 2013 - linkThat would be awesome, but I highly doubt it. Unless they radically change their target market for that device, I don't think you'll see a bleeding edge SOC or super high resolution display. It was meant to win back the market share lost to the likes of the budget friendly Kindle/Nook tablets who were eating Google's lunch in the tablet market while using their OS at the core. I just don't see a Snapdragon 800 in a ~$200 device, for the same reasons you don't see Swift or Retina displays in the iPad Mini. I think we're much more likely to see an S4 Pro quad/Adreno 320 (possibly Snapdragon 600?). Even that would be a hell of an upgrade to the existing Tegra 3, and I'd happily throw my Nexus 7 up on eBay for that. Admittedly, I may end up with an x86 Windows 8.1 tablet with Silvermont or Temesh instead of the next Nexus 7 anyway. Reply
Krysto - Wednesday, June 19, 2013 - link"Snapdragon 800 can definitely be quicker than ARM's Cortex A15"
What does that sentence even mean? You're comparing 2.3 Ghz Krait 400 vs 1.7 Ghz Cortex A15. Reply
aryonoco - Wednesday, June 19, 2013 - linkHe's comparing what he has (Snapdragon development tablet) with other things that he has.
Clock frequency is pointless to compare by itself. Sure A15 might be faster clock-for-clock, but it's also more power hungry so you won't be seeing it hit 2.0 Ghz anytime soon. Looks like a Snapdragon 800 can easily clock higher which more than compensates its IPC disadvantage compared to A15 while keeping power usage in check.
Qualcomm is sitting very comfortable right now. No wonder their market cap is now bigger than Intel, while they have a fraction of Intel's revenue/profits. The market clearly likes what they see from them. Reply
Wilco1 - Wednesday, June 19, 2013 - linkA15 is already at 1.9GHz with Tegra 4. If A15 was built on 28nm HPM then it would also reach 2.3-2.5GHz. I bet we'll get something like that this year.
Note there is no evidence A15 uses more power. In S4 tests it seems the Exynos Octa has lower power consumption than Krait. Reply
Wilco1 - Wednesday, June 19, 2013 - linkJust came across this: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/06/qualcomms-s...
Looks like Tegra 4 still beats it at 1.9GHz. And good to see some tech sites showing native benchmarks. Reply
xinthius - Wednesday, June 19, 2013 - linkThat isn't the impression I got from the article. CPU wise Tegra 4 edges it, but on the off-screen GPU tests Adreno has a solid lead. Reply
Wilco1 - Wednesday, June 19, 2013 - linkTegra 4 finally has a fast GPU - nobody has benchmarked it yet but the one available score (Egypt HD at 57fps) suggests it will be a close match with Adreno. Reply
sherlockwing - Wednesday, June 19, 2013 - linkTegra 4 is already A15 on HPM and it is capped at 1.9Ghz, no evidence on how much further it can be pushed. Also Exynos Octa have 4 A7s to reduce power consumption, in GSMArena's benches it still fall behind S600 in battery life. Reply
Wilco1 - Wednesday, June 19, 2013 - linkAnand says it is LPM (unlike Tegra 4i, which is HPM): http://www.anandtech.com/show/6550/more-details-on...
The Exynos variant of S4 does indeed fall behind in battery life in the GSMArena test, but that was on talk time and video playback, ie. not related at all to the CPU. QC has a big lead in low-power modems and it shows. Browsing was within 6%, so that confirms that the A15 uses similar power as Krait to get slightly better performance. I'm still hoping Anand will do a full review... Reply
aryonoco - Wednesday, June 19, 2013 - linkYes, the architecture comparison between A15 and Krait 400 and next-gen Swift will be very interesting.
Add in Bay Trail and Temash and we CPU enthusiasts are really experiencing a golden age. When was the last time we had so many different competing designs and architectures? When you compare the progress from Scorpion to Krait 200 to Krait 400 (or A9 to A15) in a matter of 2 years... the pace of development in the mobile world is astonishing.
I'm also relying on Anand to do some full analysis and review of all these architectures once they become available. It's pretty clear that Tegra 4 is going to be cheaper than Snapdragon 800, it would be great to see them side by side, with power analysis and all. Reply
Krysto - Wednesday, June 19, 2013 - link"The overall graphics score from Adreno is amazing. We're looking at almost 2x the next fastest contender here, the Adreno 320 based Snapdragon 600."
Why is that so amazing? Adreno 320 came out first last fall, which is about a year before S800 with Adreno 330 comes out. Are you saying you're surprised mobile GPU's can double in performance every 12 months? Reply
nunomoreira10 - Wednesday, June 19, 2013 - linkOn the same process nod, hell yeah Reply
Aenean144 - Wednesday, June 19, 2013 - linkNot exactly the same process node, and we don't know TDP yet. Reply
richworks - Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - linkplease excuse my ignorance but how is TDP related to the process node? Reply
dishayu - Wednesday, June 19, 2013 - linkIn the great equalizer charts, can someone please explain how GeForce 8500 manages to outperform the 7900 GTX in DXBenchmark 2.7? The 8500 had similar performance to a 7600GS from what i remember. Reply
nunomoreira10 - Wednesday, June 19, 2013 - linkUniform shaders i believe Reply
Ryan Smith - Wednesday, June 19, 2013 - linkUnified rather than uniform, but yes. We did an article in April looking at the issue in greater depth: http://www.anandtech.com/show/6877/the-great-equal... Reply
Speedfriend - Wednesday, June 19, 2013 - linkWhere will the new generation Atom show up in the list? As I understand it, it will have graphics comparable to the HD4000 in the Ivy Bridge, so in theory it should outperform this Qualcomm chip? Reply
psychobriggsy - Wednesday, June 19, 2013 - linkNo, it will have graphics based upon the HD4000 architecture - but it will have fewer units and run at a lower speed, in order to attain TDP requirements. Reply
FwFred - Wednesday, June 19, 2013 - linkThe number of EUs does not directly tie to TDP. See HD5000 vs HD5100. The clock speed is important, and wider but slower is more efficient. Reply
xaml - Wednesday, June 19, 2013 - linkThanks for sneakily including a comparison of the two Galaxy S4s as well. Reply
etre - Wednesday, June 19, 2013 - linkIt seems to me that everything is depending on the power budget, as the dual core A15 inside Nexus 10 is faster in some tests then the quad A15 in S4. Or I am wrong ? Reply
mczak - Wednesday, June 19, 2013 - linkYes in some tests (like 3dmark physics) it is very obvious the quad A15 aren't running anywhere close to their max frequency. This is not surprising last time I looked at some power draw figures just two A15 cores at max frequency alone (so without graphics) could already exceed the power budget of the whole chip.
So we'll see how that new Snapdragon chip compares once it's inside a smartphone. Should still be plenty fast but some scores might suffer (maybe we're going again to see freezer vs. no freezer results :-)). Reply
sherlockwing - Wednesday, June 19, 2013 - linkThe answer is simple, Dual Core A15s are running on Tablet TDP limits(4W) while the Quad core A15 in Exynos Octa are running on Phone TDP limits(<2W). Reply
HisDivineOrder - Wednesday, June 19, 2013 - linkThese SOC GPU's are rapidly catching up to PC GPU's. They aren't there yet, but they've made impressive strides in just a few short years.
Consoles better start more rapid update cycles or they are going to be left behind at this rate. Reply
sireangelus - Wednesday, June 19, 2013 - linkI just wanted to make people realize something:Assassin's creed 1 & 2 run very well on an old x1950pro, and this chip seems to me that it's faster. When they said that soon mobile platform would exceed the(actual but) old consolle generation they weren't kidding. Reply
douglord - Wednesday, June 19, 2013 - linkThis looks great - but frankly I need to see this vs Tegra 4 and A7. Also - I agree we need to see vs HD5000/HD5200 Haswell.
Tegra 4 is probably a toss up performance wise - and will come down to power (which Qualcom normally wins). Kinda makes me sorry I pre-ordered a Shield when this will be in the Note 3 and I could just attach a controller. Hopefully Nvidia can do a better job of getting AAA games to actually support Shield. I'm sick of all the blockbusters being iOS only (or 6 months early).
Apple seems to double performance every year, and with PowerVR 6 - you could get a bigger bump. That would easily surpass this. If AAPL would just come out with a larger screen, I'd go back to iOS this time around.
And IF we see Haswell tablets with 7-9 hours of battery life - I'm not sure all of this stuff doesn't get relegated to the dust bin of history with Intel taking 90%+ of the tablet/hybrid market.
Anyone have any info on Saltwell's GPU? I love my Latitude 10's ability to run full Windows programs - particularly Office. The CPU beats anything in this article and the power use is low enough I get 16 hours of battery life. But the GPU is so far behind all of these other chips even a 2x-3x improvement isn't going to make it competitive. Why can't they throw in whatever Apple is going to use in the A7. They own part of PowerVR too! Reply
aicom - Wednesday, June 19, 2013 - linkI'll be interested to see how the actively-cooled Tegra 4 in Shield performs compared to the standard passively-cooled stuff. I'd suspect that if you're going to be gaming for a while, the Shield may pull away. Tablets and smartphones these days aren't designed to run at full tilt all the time.
The most interesting thing about this generation of SoCs to me is the CPU performance. I don't game all that often, so I'd much prefer a device that has CPU performance to spare. It's the opposite of the problem that we had on the desktop years ago. Now we have GPU performance sufficient for UI acceleration, media decoding, and mainstream gaming, but we still have CPU performance that holds the platform back. Reply
krumme - Wednesday, June 19, 2013 - linkNo your Atom does not beat anything worthwhile in this world and especially not the s800:
"Intel taking 90% of the tablet/hybrid market"
Ahemm. And how exactly are they going to do that. With a usd 150 APU sans LTE/3G integrated? Reply
Speedfriend - Thursday, June 20, 2013 - linkNo with a processor offering 4x the performance of anything that ARM offers. Believe it or not, most corporate users want something that can run enterprise level apps, not some jewel swapping game. Reply
Wilco1 - Thursday, June 20, 2013 - linkA low clocked single or dual Haswell won't be anywhere close to 4 times faster than a high clocked quad A15/Krait. Reply
jeffkro - Wednesday, June 19, 2013 - linkCool, should make a great chromebook processor. Reply
WagonWheelsRX8 - Wednesday, June 19, 2013 - linkGood stuff, always like hardware reviews on Anandtech!
Feature Request: When you create the charts, can you include the SoC next to the device name? It's good to know that a Google Nexus 10 is faster than Google Nexus 4, but I think the additional information of the SoC contained within would help chart readability greatly.
Thanks! Reply
Kill16by9TN - Thursday, June 20, 2013 - linkI very much second that, since I was struggling with the very issue, always scrolling up and down in an effort to keep up with which SoC is in which product. Reply
MrPhilo - Wednesday, June 19, 2013 - linkAnyone know the reason why the Galaxy S4 (Exynos 5420) GPU performs slower than the iPhone 5 GPU on offscreen test? Even though the GPU is similar but the S4 having a higher clockspeed and higher bandwidth? Reply
Cotita - Wednesday, June 19, 2013 - linkI don't think Tegra 4 will be able to compete here. Tegra 5+kepler will be its last chance. Reply
Alberto - Wednesday, June 19, 2013 - linkSince performance comes at a cost, this Soc seems in the 8/10 W Tdp range running games. The comparison is pretty clear with A4-5000, done on the same process.
Likely the power draw is lower in cpu only tasks but IMO users will enjoy a fast battery death under games. It's a Qualcomm choice, will see the market acceptance.
I prefer more balanced socs, this do not seem the case. Reply
virtual void - Wednesday, June 19, 2013 - linkI will be interesting to see how the Silvermont based SoC stand up against Snapdragon 800 and Tegra 4. I guess it will do quite well considering that CloverTrail+ seem to beat even Exynos 5 Octa. CT+ is a dual core CPU using a 5 year old Atom design...
And this is the most interesting part "Intel's chip scores highest on the most tests and draws the least current"
I don't feel that today's phone need more CPU-power, they should instead focus on reducing power consumption. But tables can definitely use a lot more CPU-power!! Reply
Wilco1 - Wednesday, June 19, 2013 - linkExynos Octa beats the current fastest Atoms by a huge margin at a lower clock speed, so don't expect Silvermont to come close to A15: http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench2/compare/...
That link seems to be an Intel sponsored test without any details how it was done. The benchmark I linked however is known to be independent and doesn't favour either Intel or ARM. Reply
virtual void - Wednesday, June 19, 2013 - linkHow does that link seem Intel sponsored? The numbers presented by the analyst firm is just the numbers from Antutu and that has been verified by others (search YouTube for example).
If you read the review of the Z2460 & Z2670, then notice that Geekbench is really the only benchmark where those SoC performs bad against ARM SoC used at that time (Tegra 3 was very popular at that point).
If you ever actually used units based on Z2460 or Z2670 (tablets) side by side with units using Tegra 3 running the same OS and application, then you would know that the Atom systems definitely feels faster so I don't really trust Geekbench as a measurement on how things feel.
Cortex A15 is not that far behind Core i5-3320M according to Geekbench, which to anyone that used systems using those CPUs know is kind of ridiculous.
The question one can ask oneself: how come that two benchmarks that are supposed to measure roughly the same attributes of a system get such radically different result? Do you have other benchmarks? The only other benchmarks I can find myself are the web-based ones and they show the Atom in pretty good light. Reply
Wilco1 - Wednesday, June 19, 2013 - linkHaving used Apple tablets (with their relatively slow CPU but fast GPUs and hardware accelerated drawing/scrolling), I believe how fast a device feels is more a software/GPU issue than a CPU one. Similarly browsing depends a lot on how fast you can download stuff.
The original ABI press release almost literally reads like an Intel advert. And the chosen benchmark is one of the few where Atom scores well, so that way it not only seems faster then it really is but appears more power efficient as a bonus (as the A15/Kraits have to do more work to get the same score). If you did power numbers on Geekbench then Atom wouldn't look very efficient at all - the only results Intel will show is where they look best.
The Phoronix benchmarks show basically the same as Geekbench: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&...
I have no idea what AnTuTu actually does but Atom scores ridiculously high, so much that either the calculation must be incorrect or there is some kind of cheating going on. For example Atom appears to score more than twice as much as A15 on the memory test, but Geekbench shows a completely different story: Stream - the traditional memory benchmark - shows that A15 is about 3 times faster.
So which is right? Well give me the AnTuTu source code and as a compiler/benchmarking expert I'll explain what is wrong with it and how it could be trivially gamed to show a much higher score (if you look at their web page, it is full of cautions about companies cheating the results). I know for a fact one cannot do this with Stream, which is why I trust the Geekbench results. Reply
tuxRoller - Wednesday, June 19, 2013 - linkWhere is the code for geekbench? I've been to their site but was unable to find any links. Reply
Wilco1 - Thursday, June 20, 2013 - linkI think they want you to pay for it... However just like SPEC they use standard open source benchmarks, so you can find pretty much every one of them if you do a search. Reply
virtual void - Thursday, June 20, 2013 - linkI don't really agree that Antutu is the only benchmark where Atom does very well compared to ARM. Look at AnandTechs review of the Samsung Galaxy S4 and notice how well the Motorola Razr i does against the S4 in a number of benchmarks. Razr i uses Z2460 single core Atom, K900 uses Z2580 dual core Atom with 33% faster RAM-interface and WAY faster GPU.
I do own a iPad4, so I know it is a slick device, but by comparing Intel vs ARM SoC I meant when they are running the very similar software. Compare Z2760 on Win8 vs Tegra3 or Krait on Windows RT or Z2460 on Android vs Tegra3/Krait on Android. Z2760 definitely feels faster and Z2460, despite being single core and used in very cheep phones, feels at least on pair with Samsung S3 performance wise on tasks like webbrowsning and usage of non 3D applications (the GPU suck in Z2460 for 3D).
My guess is that applications like a webbrowser and applications like Antutu put a lot more stress on the L2 cache and the RAM-subsystem and Intel just destroys the competition when it comes the L2 latency and compared to ARM, even Atom has decent bandwidth to L2. Geekbench probably runs very close to 100% out of L1 cache. Reply
Wilco1 - Thursday, June 20, 2013 - linkThe S4 review shows single threaded JavaScript tests, so don't expect core count to make any difference. As I mentioned in another post, Anand shows much lower results for S4 than other sites, so that makes the Razr i seem more competitive.
While Atom and ARM both use Android, Intel does their own builds and modifications for x86. They have a lot of man power so can optimize for the common benchmarks as well as making the user experience better like Apple. I can't comment on your experience but I bet it is not at all related to raw CPU performance.
Geekbench uses the memory system in a serious way, Stream for example measures RAM to RAM copies - if it was L1-L1 copy the scores would be 20 times higher! While Cortex-A9 was behind Atom in L2 latency and some variants had terrible memory performance (ahem Tegra 3), A15 has certainly caught up.
I think it is actually far more likely AnTuTu does some tiny loop that stays entirely within L1 and effectively just measures the frequency of a CPU. They might even multiply single threaded scores by the thread count... Also they seem to be adding up various scores rather than calculating the geometric mean. AnTuTu looks like a broken benchmark. Reply
virtual void - Thursday, June 20, 2013 - linkGeekbench might do RAM-to-RAM, but most programs you run on a mobile will have L2 cache hit-rates way over 90%. According to http://www.7-cpu.com/cpu/Cortex-A15.html, Exynos 5250 has a L2 latency of 21 cycles, Saltwell got 15 cycles and Silvermont 13 cycles latency, don't know if I would call 40% higher latency as "caught up"...
AnTuTu tries to simulate "normal" applications like games and other applications by running what they think is "typical" workloads (you can see 3D-scenes and simulated applications as the benchmark runs), but I cannot say I know anything about the details of how this benchmark actually work.
The problem with most benchmarks i.m.h.o is that they focus WAY to much on performance when all cores run at full tilt. Connect ADB to an Android phone and run "top", do some "normal" tasks and check the load-average and CPU-load from the running processes. You rarely see more than one CPU-core being used, I bet you never see more than two cores used at 100%, so the only thing that matters for how fast the device feels is the integer single threaded performance and even the old in-order Atom is competitive here. Reply
Wilco1 - Friday, June 21, 2013 - linkThe 64KB access time (= fastest L2 access without TLB misses) went from 23 cycles on A9 to 13 cycles on A15, while Atom N2800 does 11. It's clear A15 has caught up even if Atom still has a slightly lower L2 latency.
Yes performance benchmarks will never give an indication of typical use or how responsive a device is. For example how fast software & hardware ramp up clock frequency from a dormant state to active can make a large difference. Reply
wsw1982 - Thursday, June 20, 2013 - linkThe geekbench seems to me emphasis the kind-of HPC working load. And the AnTuTu is more relative to the mobile usage working load. And the real life mobile user experience is more related to the AnTuTu result than to geekbench result. But anyway, it's really depends on the user case. If some one prefer to use their mobile phone to simulate the nuclear reaction rather than browser the internet or play some game, geekbench is their first choice to judge their phones:) I really admire the develop who gives geekbench it's name:)
And just as a opposite to you, that's why I don't trust the Geekbench result for my mobile choice. Reply
Wilco1 - Thursday, June 20, 2013 - linkGeekbench does the traditional benchmarks, so in that way it is a bit like a small variant of SPEC. However what does AnTuTu measure? When I go to their website I cannot find any information on it. All I see is endless announcements about people cheating the scores. That really instills confidence...
Given you seem to have a solid trust in AnTuTu, can you explain in more detail what it actually measures? Have you seen the source code? Is it native code, interpreted or JITted? It seems AnTuTu also does memory, integer and FP scores just like Geekbench, so what makes you claim it is more relevant to mobiles? Reply
virtual void - Wednesday, June 19, 2013 - linkOne clarification about using Tegra 3 as referents above, Tegra 3 does score higher on Geekbench than Z2670 and way higher than Z2460. Reply
Kurge - Wednesday, June 19, 2013 - linkYeah.. no. Saltwell is a 2 core, in-order processor.
Silvermont is a completely different beast - 4 real, out of order cores.
I _do_ expect Silvermont to come close to A15 and in fact go well beyond. Reply
Wilco1 - Wednesday, June 19, 2013 - linkWhy would you expect that? Silvermont is just a 2-way limited OoO core, very similar to Cortex-A9. Cortex-A15 on the other hand is very aggressive with a large reordering window, 3-way and supports 2 memory accesses per cycle (vs just 1 for SilverMont). Given that it should be obvious Silvermont will have a lower IPC than Cortex-A15.
You'll be disappointed. Even Intel is claiming just a 2.8 speedup with double the cores and a 20% clock boost. So at the same core count and frequency the speedup from Silvermont is only 16%... Reply
ncp - Wednesday, June 19, 2013 - linkQualcomm will probably keep the power low as they are cheating on benchmarks.
They are detecting what application is launched. For a given list of benchmarks they are tweaking CPU governor to go to full power, tweak data base access and anything yet uncovered.
This way they got very competitive scores on known benchmarks.
This is somewhat smart, however other competitor (IC maker) don't do that so get scores more inline with the way the device is configured in order to get a good pert/power compromise.
Some phone makers are also cheating on top of Qualcomm Cheating, at least one.
Note that probably many phone makers using Qualcomm chipset even do not realize they are cheating on behalf of Qualcomm. Reply
krumme - Wednesday, June 19, 2013 - linkDoes that include the "at least one" cheating on top of Qualcomm? Reply
Wilco1 - Wednesday, June 19, 2013 - linkIn what way is setting the CPU governor cheating? You won't get a better score than the maximum possible score, you'll just get it first time. It seems there is far worse cheating going on with eg. Atoms AnTuTu scores, which are impossibly high (A15 has 3 times faster Stream scores and yet less than half the memory score in AnTuTu?!?). Reply
qwerty12345 - Friday, June 21, 2013 - linklooks like wilco1 is a paid pro-qcomm and anti-intc talking machine Reply
Laststop311 - Wednesday, June 19, 2013 - linkoh man once we hit 14nm soc arm designs we are gonna have insane performance. Reply
FramePointer - Wednesday, June 19, 2013 - linkYou're naive if you believe you can accurately estimate the performance of Silvermont based on high level architectural details like the ones you have provided. Given how the current generation of Atom is still using in order execution it should be no match to Qualcomm's Krait or even a basic Cortex A9 (which has at least limited OOO execution) if we were using your logic. Anandtech's own analysis has shown that this is not the case at all.
"Silvermont is just a 2-way limited OoO core, very similar to Cortex-A9. "
And yet even Clovertrail+ crushes the ARM A9 and it is older than Silvermont. Reply
Wilco1 - Thursday, June 20, 2013 - linkYes you can make accurate predictions based on the microarchitecture, I've got the experience and patents to make that statement. A9 typically crushes much higher clocked Atoms, eg. http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench2/compare/... Both are 4 threads btw, so it is a fair comparison, however a 1.6GHz A9 beats a 2GHz Atom on most single threaded benchmarks as well. Again this is entirely expected based on their respective microarchitectures.
shodanshok - Thursday, June 20, 2013 - linkIf you think that a single A9 core can beat and destroy a single Atom core, you are wrong.
From Anand's iPad2 review:
Alongside multitasking is the performance problem. With the original iPad even deleting several emails at a time was a bit choppy, and web page rendering performance needed tons of work. As always Apple does its best to hide the limitations of the platform but I must point out that even the iPad 2 with a pair of ARM Cortex A9s has lower CPU performance than a netbook with a single core Atom. The fact that you can't really tell most of the time is a testament to Apple's software engineering, but it doesn't change reality.
Some more benchmark:
Tegra 250 @ 1.0 GHz
Core: 2
Compiler: GCC 4.4.5
Coremark/MHz: 5,148
Total Score: 5148,01
Threads: 4
Flags: -O3 -funroll-loop -falign=8 -mcpu=cortex-a9 -mfpu=vfpv3-d16 -mfloat-abi=soft
Atom N280 @ 1.68 GHz
Core: 1
Compiler: GCC 4.4.4
Coremark/MHz: 3,187
Total Score: 5353,79
As you can see, _2_ A9 cores nave total throughput equal to a single Atom core. Atom need high clock of curse, bit it was a specific architectural choice from the start.
The truth is that only A15 decisively defeat Atom.
Unfortunely, Atom GPU was really terrible, being crushed by all others. Reply
shodanshok - Thursday, June 20, 2013 - linkI forgot to specify the benchmark used. It is Coremark: http://www.coremark.org/
It is a industry standard benchmark with freely available sources. Reply
Wilco1 - Friday, June 21, 2013 - linkReally? Looking at the published results it shows Exynos 4 does 5560 Coremarks/core at 1.4GHz.
The fastest per-core Atom result is 2.3 CM/MHz for 1 thread, and 3.3 with Hyperthreading.
Cortex-A9 does 4.0 for 1 thread - so it is 74% faster single threaded, and 21% faster core for core.
So the A9 destroys Atom on CoreMark as well. I am surprised several of you are trying to argue that in-order cores beat out-of-order cores despite the facts. Reply
shodanshok - Friday, June 21, 2013 - linkNo, it is incredible how you pretend to extrapolate _precise_ performance numbers from vague arch details.
Return to Coremark site, because you misunderstan the benchmark results. The CM/MHz score represent the score of the entire soc - so it don't rule out core count differences. Let see the CM/core score instead and you will find that Atom is in the same field of A9 scores, sometime much better.
Some examples: Atom z520 vs Tegra2 and Atom n2800 vs exynos4 quad.
Please also note that:
- Coremark does not stress l2/memory in any way. This is the only reason why A9 slow memory interface does not interfere here;
- the compiler has enormous importance in it's score.
The real Atom problem was the terrible GPU and companion chipset.
Regards. Reply
Wilco1 - Friday, June 21, 2013 - linkI listed the per core results, as I said A9 is 74% faster single threaded and 21% faster with Hyperthreading enabled. These are results from the EEMBC website, no complex extrapolation involved.
Coremark runs mostly in L1, however it does stress the branch predictor seriously. All benchmarks have a major compiler component. Coremark is horrible like pretty much any EEMBC stuff so I don't think it will become popular. Reply
shodanshok - Saturday, June 22, 2013 - linkI can not agree. From CoreBench site:
### Comparison 1:
Tegra2 @ 1.00 GHz (2 A9 cores):
Coremark: 5866.39
Coremark/Core: 2933.20
Atom Z520 @ 1.33 GHz (1 Atom Core):
Coremark: 3192.17
Coremark/Core: 3192.17
Atom advantage: 9%
### Comparison 2:
Exynos4 Quad @ 1.4 GHz (4x A9 cores)
Coremark: 22243.00
Coremark/core: 5560.75
Atom N2800 @ 1.86 GHz (2 Atom cores)
Coremark: 12286.90
Coremark/Core: 6143.45
Atom advantage: 10%
### Note:
Why the two A9 and Atom scores are so much different (see Tegra2 vs Exynos and Atom Z530 vs N2800)? The reason lie in the compiler: recent GCC version have greatly improved their efficienty with in-order uarch. Moreover, please also note that the high A9 score (Exynos) was obtained with their specific arm compiler. I am sure that, if benchmarked using Intel C Compiler, the Atom score would be higher.
### Summary:
the Atom core is more than capable to compete against A9. You can argue than Atom has an higher clock, but in phone/tablet environmento clocks don't mean nothing. What is important is performance/watt.
This bring us to the two real Atom's problem:
1) a very low efficiency chipset and low integration. Moorestown (intel first attempt to mobile with Atom) was doomed from the start because it require 4/5 chips to enable a full-featured phone;
2) a very slow GPU (with very bad performance/watt).
Moreover, it is widely understand that A9 OoO engine is a mild implementation only. A15 is much stronger in this reguard, sometime (not too often, anyway) even apporaching AMD Bobcat single-thread performance.
Regards. Reply
Wilco1 - Saturday, June 22, 2013 - linkNo - the performance comparisons that are useful are:
1. Max score for a SoC - despite running at a far lower clock, in both comparisons A9-based SoCs win by more than 80% in overall performance.
2. Efficiency of a core at the same frequency (IPC) - Without Hyperthreading A9 is 74% faster, with Hyperthreading A9 wins by more than 20%.
Note that your comparison doesn't work. You can't come to a conclusion about A9 vs Atom performance when you compare with wildly different frequencies. Also it means giving Atom the advantage of having 2 threads vs 1 on A9. So to make the comparison fair you need to compare with an equal number of threads or at the same clock.
Yes GCC has improved a lot in recent years, on ARM it has become a reasonable compiler and competitive with ARM's armcc compiler. I don't know how much better ICC would be on Atom, but I suspect the gap is far smaller as well.
A9 is not hugely OoO indeed, just like Silvermont. A15 is aggressive OoO and beats Jaguar. Reply
shodanshok - Saturday, June 22, 2013 - linkNo, I don't agree again.
You explicitly talket about CortexA9 and Atom uarch, _not_ their SoC implementation.
You can not use the total SoC score as uarch benchmark - simply because it don't rule out differences in cores number. To measure uarch performances you need to do a core-by-core comparison. Let me do an example: using total SoC score, a 4xA9 SoC is faster then 2xA15 one. However, the latter uarch is considerably more advanced.
A very similar argument can be done for frequency: Atom was _from the start_ designed to hit a relatively high-clock, yet low power target. This was deliberately done to exploit Intel 45/32nm HKMG process, which don't scale power down much for lower frequency target. It is simply a question of design targets: for low power chips, you can get (relatively) high-freq _or_ (relatively) high IPC - not both (actually).
So, you must decide: are you comparing uarch of final SoC implementation? Because, from an uarch point, Atom win. From a performance/watt metric, their bare cores tend to be on par. From a final product specification, A9 is way better because there are many high-integrated, low power, low cost SoCs from a multitude of vendors. On contrast, Atom-based SoCs are offered only by Intel and with a much lower integration factor (and higher cost) - until now,where they latest platform begin to be very competitive against older A9 SoC.
The "little problem" is that ARM is shipping with 2x and 4x A15 cores, and against them Atom is a disvantage.
Regards. Reply
Wilco1 - Saturday, June 22, 2013 - linkWhile Atom was indeed designed for high frequency, A9 reaches higher frequencies: Atom maxes out at 2GHz on 32nm, while A9 does 1.7GHz on 40nm and 2.3GHz on 28nm. So you can't claim a "microarchitecture" win for Atom when you compare against a low clocked A9.
Secondly, since you argue that frequency is an important aspect of the microarchitecture, I would argue that core count matters equally. A9 was designed to be simple and small, so it is typically used as a quad-core. On the other hand Atom is a large and complex core which uses Hyperthreading rather than multiple cores. So if you want to do a fair comparison with Hyperthreading enabled then you have to use 2 A9 cores for every Atom core. That's how they have been designed to be used.
What is the difference between a module, a HT enabled core and a dual core? These are just different ways of improving multithreaded performance with different hardware tradeoffs - but to software they all appear identical.
In conclusion: you cannot just pick whatever comparison you want. Either you compare the whole SoC, including its frequency as well as core count, or you compare microarchitectures normalized on core count and frequency. You can't include one but not the other as frequency, core count and TDP are related. Reply
shodanshok - Sunday, June 23, 2013 - linkSo, you started about in-order vs OoO and now you are speaking of die size and perm/mm2?
1) While CortexA9 was rated for 2 GHz operation, a single A9 core would dissipate more than 2 Watt at this frequency. Atom is not so much different in this reguard. Moreover, can you point me a phone that use a 2 GHz A9 implementation? I bet no.
2) Atom is also MP form the start: it has the same bus unit and MP capability of Netburst uarch. By which metrics these are inferior to the ARM MP implementation?
3) By die size comparison, A9 is clearly better then Atom. However, its performance are lower.
4) HT is simply a smart sharing of some key structure in order to interleave two thread on the same core. You can not count HT as another core. For example, barrel microprocessors can interleave many threads on a single core: Sun T1 can inteleave 4x threads per core, T2 8x core. Do you count T1 as having 32 cores? If so, you are wrong.
Both I and other users pointed you many reviews and benchmarks where Atom is clearly identified as faster then A9. However, you contine to change metrics.
The only benchmark that paint a different picture is Geekbench, which show A9 in the same league as Sandy Bridge. Do you _really_ think this is true? In SPEC benchmarks, SB is quite close to the big, power hungry but powerfull POWER7. Do you really think that A9 is remotely comparable to this core? Really?
I already stated this: if you compare SoCs, well, A9 wins, because there are many well done SoCs based around it. However, from uarch/performance side, Atom wins.
The funny thing is that is now totally irrelevant: A9 is superseeded by A15, and Atom is very near its EOL. Moreover, Jaguar seems to be a very competent table chip.
Regards. Reply
MrPhilo - Sunday, June 23, 2013 - linkUnfair to compare the A9's to Atom. The Tegra 2 was a old revision of A9 while lacking NEON etc. The newer A9 are more fair to compare. Also a single A9 at 2Ghz wont produce 2 watts at all, the 2.3Ghz Tegra 4i would be worse than the A15 if it did. Remember the nm is 28 not the old 40's. Reply
shodanshok - Sunday, June 23, 2013 - linkYou are right :) The 2 GHz / 2 Watt rating was at 40nm. It was explicity called at ARM site, so I didn't specified that above.
Anyway, lacking NEON instructions means nothing for CoreBech, as it don't test vector code.
Regards. Reply
Wilco1 - Sunday, June 23, 2013 - linkCoremark can be vectorized, which one reason why the scores have improved. Tegra 2 was terrible in most respects, Exynos 4 and Calxeda are currently the best A9 implementations until Tegra 4i is released. Obviously it will be very interesting to see how Silvermont will do against Tegra 4i. Reply
Wilco1 - Sunday, June 23, 2013 - linkNow we've agreed that A9 can reach similar frequencies then we can normalize on frequency, yes? When you normalize on frequency then in-order vs OoO matters more, which is what I said all along.
1. NVidia has shown their 2.3GHz Tegra 4i reference phone which should be on the market soon. The reason you don't see 2GHz A9 phones today is (a) use of older processes and (b) use of quad cores which leads to too much power use at high frequencies. If they were single or dual core then it would be easier to go for 2GHz.
2. Atom only supports dual core (even Centerton is dual core trying to compete with the Calxeda quad core...), and until the recently released K900 I believe all Atom phones were single core. On the other hand most smart phones have been quad-core since 2012.
3. I still don't see where you think that A9 is slower per core than Atom. At the same frequency it is unbeaten even if you give Atom the advantage of Hyperthreading.
4. If you say that a core with HT is just a single core then surely it should look like a single core to software as well and provide a speedup to single-threaded applications? As soon as you enable HT for a multithreaded application then it would be unfair to compare with single threaded performance on a non-HT core. You can't just pick and choose a comparison that gives one core a major advantage over another.
So far I haven't seen any evidence of native benchmarks where Atom is clearly faster. If you do a fair like for like comparison then A9 wins every time. However if you remove the advantages from one core but keep all the advantages for another then you can of course prove whatever you like. Reply
shodanshok - Sunday, June 23, 2013 - link1) During Atom lifetime as competent product (read: before A15 release), _no_ phone (or tables, to best of my knowledge) shipped with A9 faster then 1/1.2 GHz. Even Scorpion based phones had higher frequencies. Anyway, from the Coremark comparison written above, you can see that normalizing core/frequency lead to similar per-core performance between A9 and Atom. With the difference that Atom shipped at generally higher frequency, even @ 2.0 GHz: http://www.anandtech.com/show/6307/motorola-hits-2...
Comparing a 5-year-old Atom to a to-be-shipped Tegra 4i which as tweaked cores seems fair? I think no.
2) For scaling above 2 cores, currently Atom use FSB communication. However, I can not see why you need 4 Atom cores in a phone. Anyway, you have a point here (on-chip communication are much more pratical) ;)
3) HT is a simple, cheap method to increase total tput. You can not consider an HT-enabled Atom as having 2 cores. Even on coremark sites an HT-enabled Atom is considered a one-core processor. I reiterate: how to consider a barrel processor? A many core approach?
4) You can find many benchmark were Atom excels... some example:
a) http://www.anandtech.com/show/5770/lava-xolo-x900-... (OS android - browser benchmark + linpack + other)
b) http://www.anandtech.com/show/6529/busting-the-x86... (OS WinRT / Win8 - many web brower benchmark)
You can not mark all web browser benchmark as "flawed". Sure they are not 100% uarch dependant, but they are a good method to evaluate the entire software stack used by these processors.
Regards. Reply
Wilco1 - Sunday, June 23, 2013 - link1. Not true - A9 was running at 1.4GHz in 2011 products, 1.5GHz early 2012 and 1.7GHz late 2012. So A9 was most definitely available at higher frequencies, including in phones (One X). With the shrink to 28nm it gets another boost to 2.3GHz. So in frequency it can match or beat Atom (note by the time it comes out, it'll be compared with Silvermont which achieves similar frequencies).
3. Yes a barrel processor looks and behaves like multiple slow cores. The fact that they share hardware in a very specific way is an implementation detail. An equivalent approach would be multiple independent cores. Do you consider a Bulldozer module as a single core as well?
If you prefer to just compare a single core then you should only consider its single threaded performance. As soon as you compare multithreaded performance, then it is completely fair to allow each CPU designer to decide how to implement that, whether it is with HT/SMT, multiple cores or AMD's inbetween approach. You're right of course that HT is a fairly cheap way of adding more threads if you already have a complex core - using multiple cores is only a good idea if you designed your core to be as small as possible.
shodanshok - Monday, June 24, 2013 - link1) Almost all widespread phone had A9 running at 1.0/1.2 Ghz for so much time. Only recently they increased their frequency at about 1.4 Ghz, and atom is @ 2.0 GHz now.
2) "Look as" is not the same as "it is". So a T2 is the equivalent of a 128 core machine? Really? You are confusing SMP with SMT. Look at coremark results: a quad core A9 has performance 4x of a single core, and the score/core reflect this (it is the total score divided by 4). Quad thread Atom instead is a two core uarch, only slightly (30%) faster when tested with 4 thread instead of 2. In fact, coremark/core score is obtained dividing the total score by two, even if the test run with 4 threads. Even coremark developers are wrong?
3) All the posted benchmark,with the exception of Geekbench, show how Atom single core performance are better then A9. Yet you refuse to look at the data, dismissing them as "flawed" or inappropriate. Even user experience, in your eyes, does not matter. can you point us to some reliable bench?
Regards. Reply
darkich - Thursday, July 04, 2013 - linkI think Wilco gave up on discussing with you since you just proved your huge ignorance (the A9 clock speed) and are even trying to defend it.
When was the One X + released?
What about the Tansformer prime infinity? Reply
darkich - Thursday, July 04, 2013 - linkI think Wilco gave up on discussing with you since you just proved your huge ignorance (the A9 clock speed) and are even trying to defend it.
When was the One X + released?
What about the Tansformer prime infinity? Reply
kukzero - Friday, June 21, 2013 - linkabsolutely impossible! The 7900GTX can run Crysis in 720p (30fps),but the Snapdragon 800 can run it? hehe wqnmlgb Reply
emperius - Friday, June 21, 2013 - linkWow. Imagine this paired with Sony and Nexus!? YES Reply
Parhelion69 - Thursday, June 27, 2013 - linkWhy is it Android CPU benchmark broken? Please enlighten me.
I thought Antutu was a very good benchmark. And probably Geekbench as well. Reply
darkice1111 - Tuesday, July 09, 2013 - linkGreat performance. Now if only we could get some more software optimizations on Android... My iPhone 5 iOS 7 beta 3 results: Sunspider 1.0 - 709.0ms; Kraken - 13783.9ms; Octane v1 - 3056; Browsermark 2.0 - 3056. So 9 month old dual core hardware that's faster than anything on the market today, and faster in some benchmarks than something that's not even on the market yet... Google, wasssssssup?? Reply
sna1970 - Tuesday, July 09, 2013 - linkHi,
How About comparing this to Nvidia Tegra 4 ? Reply
MaxH - Tuesday, October 01, 2013 - linkThanks Brian for a great test of this chipset. I am especially interested in the video encoding performance, and your inclusion of the 'MediaInfo' screen capture is really useful to see how it is encoding H.264 video.
Your MediaInfo clip clearly shows that this chipset can encode H.264/AVC at 2160p @ 25fps @ 120Mbps, (Baseline @Level 5.1). As a low-budget film-maker, I am speculating about the possibility that the encoder could alternatively be configured to handle 1080p @ 30fps (perhaps 60fps) @ 4:2:2 colour sampling @ 10-bit (perhaps 12-bit) depth. I have not been able to get confirmation of this, but if so - at this price point, this chipset could potentially unlock high quality video capture on regular consumer-level DSLR-type cameras; something that has been limited to commercial broadcast cameras (at high-budget prices) up to now. If anyone is familiar enough with AVC profiles and Levels (and related matters) to be able to speculate about this, I would like to hear your thoughts. Thanks again to Brian. Reply
Netwern - Tuesday, December 31, 2013 - linkMeanwhile Apple engineers... Reply


text:
Comfort Suites Elgin
- Free buffet breakfast, free WiFi, and free parking
Main amenities
- 78 smoke-free guestrooms
- 5 restaurants and 9 bars/lounges
- Indoor pool
- Free area shuttle
- Fitness center
- 24-hour business center
- Limo/town car service
- 24-hour front desk
- Coffee/tea in a common area
- Air conditioning
- Daily housekeeping
- Computer station
- Free buffet breakfast, free WiFi, and free parking
For families
- Cribs/infant beds (surcharge)
- Sofa bed
- Microwave
- Refrigerator
- Connecting/adjoining rooms available
- Private bathroom
What's around
- Heart of Elgin
- Raging Buffalo Snowboard Ski Park (5.4 mi / 8.7 km)
- Hemmens Cultural Center (5.5 mi / 8.8 km)
- Grand Victoria Casino (6.2 mi / 9.9 km)
- Terrace Hill Golf Course (7.4 mi / 11.9 km)
- Sears Center (8.3 mi / 13.4 km)
More great choices
At a glance
Key facts
Hotel size
- This hotel has 78 rooms
- This hotel is arranged over 3 floors
- Check-in time starts at 3 PM
- Check-out time is noon
- Express check-in/out
Required at check in
- Credit card or cash deposit required
- Government-issued photo ID required
- Minimum check-in age is 21
- Minimum Spring Break check-in age is 21
Travelling with others
- Children (18 years old and younger) stay free when occupying the parent or guardian's room, using existing bedding
- Pets not allowed
- Free WiFi and wired Internet access in public areas
- Free WiFi and wired Internet access in rooms
- Free train station pickup *
- Free self parking
- Free nearby parking
- Extended parking
- Free area shuttle within 5 mi
- Free shopping center shuttle
- Free casino shuttle
Other information
- Smoke-free property
Nearby Two Star Elgin hotels
In the hotel
- Free buffet breakfast daily
- 5 restaurants
- 9 bars/lounges
- Coffee shop/café
- Room service (during limited hours)
- Free reception
- Coffee/tea in a common area
- Barbecue grills
- Indoor pool
- Fitness facilities
- Spa tub
- Free use of nearby fitness center
- 24-hour business center
- Number of meeting rooms - 2
- Meeting rooms
- Conference space size (feet) - 1100
- Conference space size (meters) - 102
- Computer station
- 24-hour front desk
- Concierge services
- Limo or Town Car service available
- Dry cleaning/laundry service
- Laundry facilities
- Free newspapers in lobby
- Wedding services
- Multilingual staff
- Number of buildings/towers - 1
- Year Built 2006
- Safe-deposit box at front desk
- Picnic area
- Fireplace in lobby
- Television in common areas
- Accessible bathroom
- In-room accessibility
- Roll-in shower
In the room
- In-room climate control (air conditioning)
- Air conditioning
- Minibar
- Coffee/tea maker
- Iron/ironing board
- Blackout drapes/curtains
- Sofa bed
- Pillowtop mattress
- Individually decorated
- Individually furnished
- Separate living room
- Separate sitting area
- Private bathroom
- Deep soaking bathtub
- Rainfall showerhead
- Designer toiletries
- Hair dryer
- 32-inch flat-screen TV
- First-run movies
- Cable TV channels
- Desk
- Free newspaper
- Free WiFi
- Free local calls
- Refrigerator
- Microwave
- Daily housekeeping
- Connecting/adjoining rooms available
Top Elgin hotels
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Special features
DiningTilted Kilt Pub - This pub serves lunch and dinner. Guests can enjoy drinks at the bar.
Rookies Bar and Grill - This restaurant serves lunch and dinner. Guests can enjoy drinks at the bar. A children's menu is available.
Village Pizza and Pub - This restaurant serves lunch and dinner. Guests can enjoy drinks at the bar. A children's menu is available.
Panera Bread - This café serves breakfast, lunch, and dinner. A children's menu is available.
Starbucks Coffee - This coffee shop serves breakfast, lunch, and dinner. A children's menu is available.
On Site
- Fitness facilities
- Spa tub
- Bicycle rentals nearby
- Golf lessons available nearby
- Golfing nearby
- Hiking/biking trails nearby
- Ski lessons available nearby
- Ski equipment rental shops nearby
- Cross-country skiing nearby
- Downhill skiing nearby
- Sledding nearby
- Snow tubing nearby
- Snowboarding nearby
- Snowmobiling nearby
Comfort Suites Elgin's small print
Also known as
- Comfort Suites Elgin
- Comfort Suites Hotel Elgin
- Elgin Comfort Suites
- Comfort Suites Elgin Hotel Elgin
The property has connecting/adjoining rooms, which are subject to availability and can be requested by contacting the property using the number on the booking confirmation.
Only registered guests are allowed in the guestrooms.
Some facilities may have restricted access. Guests can contact the property for details using the contact information on the booking confirmation.
Children under 18 years old are not allowed in the swimming pool, health club, fitness facility, or spa tub without adult supervision.
For transfers, guests must contact the property before arrival at the number on the booking confirmation.
The name on the credit card used at check-in to pay for incidentals must be the primary name on the guestroom reservation.
Optional extras
Cribs/Infant beds are available for USD 10 per day
We have included all charges provided to us by this hotel. However, charges can vary, for example, based on length of stay or the room you book.
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subset: commoncrawl


text:
When self-checkout kiosks began appearing in supermarkets in the early part of this decade, I resisted them stubbornly. They seemed to be a symptom of the deification of efficiency, and of the modern tendency to avoid meaningful interaction with other people–two phenomena to which I am just as susceptible as anyone else.
It did not take long for me to mellow on this, if for no other reason than that the stores were making use of fewer red-blooded cashiers in the wake of this new invention. I began to take note of some of the advantages of the self-checkout routine. For one thing, if I'm in a bad mood, I don't risk subjecting some innocent person to my bad vibe, but for another thing, I pay more attention to certain details on my grocery bill.
One of those details concerns items which are taxed and items which are not taxed. Here in the State of Pennsylvania, the tale is that necessary items are not taxed–for example, clothing and food. Of course, some foods are taxed, if they are deemed to be non-essential. Soda, for instance, is taxed, if I recall correctly.
Never in my life would I have thought that soap would be a taxable item. Imagine my surprise when, on a trip to the store this evening, sales tax came up after I ran the hand soap over the scanner. On what planet is soap not necessary? And are some soaps tax free? I happen to have certain soaps that I like, soaps that kill bacteria and that do not dry, crack, and shred my hands all to hell. How is this not an essential item? Would the people who have to sit next to me on the subway agree that soap is non-essential?
All of this brings out the absurdity in having the government decide what is necessary and what is not. The truth of the matter is that different materials are necessary for different people. (So, as far as soap is concerned, it would be a question, I think, of kind, and not of whether or not one uses it!) To me, having a large pickup truck (to which I will, by the way, never aspire) would be a luxury, but to a hard-working plumber or farmer, it's surely a necessity. To most people, eating out in restaurants is a frill; but to nomadic workers, it's a necessity. The short version of this story is that the government is in no position to determine, even for the poorest citizens, what is necessary and what is not. The bureaucrats do not and will never have all the required information to divine (pun intended!) such things. This is a flaw that F.A. Hayek discussed in the context of Central Planning in his fairly good book The Road to Serfdom.
Of course, I don't expect any Philadelphia tea parties over the State sales tax. After all, it seems that most people regard the absence of the sales tax on certain items to be a favor, like it's the equivalent to an employer handing out Christmas bonuses. Perhaps this is because most people, having resigned themselves to dealing with what's right in front of their faces, have not reflected on the manifest injustice that is taxation in all its forms.
And that really stinks.
Filed under: brutality, economics, food, Hayek, natural rights, politics | Tagged: sales tax, soap, taxation | 3 Comments »


text:
Compact, water-resistant amplifier
Flexible mounting possibilities
Powers up to (8) 4 ohm speakers
Internal distortion limiting circuits
External volume control
The ME60 is a four-channel audio amplifier capable of delivering up to 30W RMS per channel. Amplifier has a compact, water-resistant design that allows for flexible mounting possibilities and makes it simple to expand the audio system capabilities for any installation.
• To add additional loud speakers to a current audio system
• To provide amplification for a separate audio zone
• As a stand-alone system amplifier for any audio source
• To power standard speakers or speakers and subwoofer
• Powers up to (8) 4 ohm speakers
• Internal distortion limiting circuits
• Dedicated gain level control
• External volume control with ON/OFF switch included
• Water-resistant design for marine use
• Rear channels are switchable from full range to powered sub out
• Speaker Impedance: 2-8 ohm
• Output Power (4 ohm load) 20 Watts RMS per Channel (50W Peak): (2 ohm load) 30 Watts RMS per Channel (70W Peak)
• Frequency Response: 20Hz - 40kHz
• Low Pass Crossover: 18 - 245 Hz
• Operating Voltage: 13.8V DC (10V-16V)
• Maximum Current Draw (full power): 8 - 10 amps
• Weight: 1.65 lbs.
• Dimensions: 6.9" x 4.5" x 1.4"


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Kinetic Hydropower — Practical Energy from Moving Water
Dean Corren, Director of Marine Current Technology, Verdant Power, Inc.
Friday, May 1, 2009, 3:30pm
Spanos Auditorium
This seminar is part of the Jones Seminars on Science, Technology, and Society series
The desire to capture the readily apparent energy from naturally flowing water is probably as ancient as that to capture the wind, but despite the similar underlying physics, its capture for useful purposes has trailed wind by centuries due to several factors. The siting is more peculiar than wind, and the technology required is more modern and specialized. Furthermore, until recently, the use of dams and impoundments for potential hydropower was more cost effective and could provide far more readily usable power. With the increasing need for clean, renewable energy, the ability to move electrical power and energy in other forms, and the decreasing ability to dam rivers, the power from flowing rivers, tidal, and even the vast energy in ocean currents is coming within reach. While early work began in the late 1970s and early 1980s, serious attempts to commercialize kinetic hydropower gained speed in the late 1990s. Since 2000, Verdant Power has become the leading developer in North America, with its Kinetic Hydropower System (KHPS), having developed the world's first multi-turbine grid-connected array. Through the Verdant experience, the presentation will survey the issues involved in designing, building, siting, deploying, testing and operating kinetic hydropower systems, along with the novel environmental monitoring required by the industry's progress towards commercial viability.
About the Speaker
Dean Corren coordinates technical resources to design, fabricate, test and deploy kinetic hydro energy conversion devices and systems. He also coordinates development of intellectual property, and interfaces with the company's work in resource analysis and regulatory affairs. He holds a masters degree from New York University in Energy Science, and a bachelor's in philosophy from Middlebury College. He was a research scientist in the NYU Department of Applied Science, where he was responsible for all areas of energy research from theory through model tests and full scale prototypes for a wide range of emerging energy technologies including wind, hydrogen, solar, biomass, and kinetic hydropower. He patented the "Turbine for Kinetic Hydro Energy Conversion" in 1984. Mr. Corren has also served four terms as a Vermont state representative, as Outreach Director for U.S. Congressman (now Senator) Bernard Sanders (I-VT) and has chaired the Burlington (VT) Electric Commission.


text:
Casemaker is a vast, but easily searchable, database
containing state and federal case law, statutes, regulations and other resource
materials used daily in the practice of law.
access to Casemaker is FREE to all Massachusetts Bar Association members, which
saves you hundreds of dollars every month in legal
Director of Business Development Jim Corbett will provide basic tips on how to
formulate effective online searches and how to perform Casemaker specialty
searches (for instance, how to create your own annotated code). Corbett will
also cover a number of the exciting features included in Casemaker's new
Law Practice Management Section
MBA On Demand System Requirements
here to review On Demand system requirements and an On Demand
product demonstration. Click
here for information on how to access your purchased On Demand
If you have questions regarding On Demand products or how to use
the software, contact Senior Programs Manager Marc A. D'Antonio,
Esq. at (617) 338-0646 or [email mdantonio].
Click here to view an MBA On Demand Orientation


text:
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With Grant County and Williamstown's proms already passed, the fairy godmothers at Cinderella's Closet would like the girls of the county to think of them.
Cinderella's Closet is an organization that supplies dresses and accessories to girls that might not be able to go to prom without them. This is their second year serving girls from all across Northern Kentucky and they helped make 400 girls' dreams come true.
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• kismet •
Pronunciation: kiz-mit • Hear it!
Part of Speech: Noun
Meaning: 1. (Islam) the will of Allah. 2. Fate, destiny, one's lot, implying fatalism, predestination.
Notes: Today's Good Word is simply prettier than fatalism or predestination, though it means pretty much the same: some external force controls our destiny. Actual story: My sister has a fear of flying. Her husband, defending her from the ribbing she was receiving (again) at the Thanksgiving table, suggested kismet to her, "If it's your time to go, you'll go no matter where you are." My father thought a while, then put up the best defense of my sister's position: "What if it's the pilot's time to go?" Kismet has no derivational family; it is a lexical orphan.
In Play: We often think of how we met our future spouses in terms of kismet (good or bad), but none so much as Jack Winter in his famous New Yorker article of 1994, "How I Met My Wife". It must have been kismet that the music of Alexander Borodin fell upon the ears of Edwin Lester, director of the Los Angeles Civic Light Opera, and made him think it would make a good musical comedy, called Kismet (1953).
Word History: Today's Good Word was taken from Turkish kismet from Persian qismat from Arabic qisma(t) "portion, lot, fate". The root of this word comes from the root of qasama "he divided". The meaning of this word wandered from "to divide" to "practice divination", while the noun from this word qisma(t), moved on from "divination" to "kismet". The word is used in the Muslim world now in the sense of "luck". The same root descended to Modern Hebrew, another Semitic language, as qosem "magic". (It was sheer kismet that James Bish and his affectionate wife Eileen couldn't agree on the meaning of today's Good Word, and turned to Dr. Goodword for help.)


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I Am Hidden in Here #9Trivia brain teasers have some element of trivia in them, but they are not just pure trivia questions.
In this teaser, you are to take the first letter from the people's surnames to discover the name of this famous 20th century humanitarian.
1. I was a popular leading man in the movies for nearly thirty years. My big ears and cocky grin helped define my screen persona as a rascal, most famously in: "It Happened One Night".
2. I was the son of President John Adams and served as a U.S. Senator from Massachusetts and was Secretary of State under President Monroe. I became president for only one term.
3. I gained national fame with my 1965 book, "Unsafe At Any Speed", which exposed the automobile industry's irresponsibility when it came to designing safe cars.
4. My professional tennis career included more than 50 pro tournament wins and three major titles. I won the gold medal at the Atlanta Summer Olympics of 1996.
5. I composed scores for the Broadway show "A Chorus Line" and the films "The Sting" and "The Way We Were", among my many other musical achievements.
6. I am known as the queen who financed Columbus's voyages to the New World (take the letter from my first name).
Answer1. Gable (Clark)
2. Adams (John Quincy)
3. Nader (Ralph)
4. Davenport (Lindsay)
5. Hamlisch (Marvin)
6. Isabella (of Castille)
The famous 20th century humanitarian: GANDHI
What Next?
See another brain teaser just like this one...
Or, just get a random brain teaser
If you become a registered user you can vote on this brain teaser, keep track of
which ones you have seen, and even make your own.
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text:
Hey there, time traveller!
This article was published 13/8/2013 (1468 days ago), so information in it may no longer be current.
Over 75 brave souls will step off the side of the 17-storey Artis REIT Royal Bank Building (220 Portage Ave.) all for a good cause.
The SMD Foundation/ Easter Seals Manitoba is hosting its 2013 Easter Seals Drop Zone on Aug. 15 at 201 Portage Courtyard from 7:40 a.m. to 3 p.m. There, the public can watch as 'superheroes' from Manitoba businesses, media, and the surrounding community rappel in support of children, youth, and adults with disabilities in Manitoba.
While there the public can enjoy music and corporate booths from Boston Pizza, IDC Communications, WestJet, GoodLife Fitness, and Virgin 103.1 FM. There will also be contests and free handouts.
Rappelling participants had to raise $1,500 each. Last year, the Drop Zone Challenge raised over $110,000 in Manitoba, according to a release. This year it is projected to raise over $150,000. All proceeds will go to services and programs that reach 47,000 children, youth and adults with disabilities.
For more information, visit thedropzone.ca.


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What are End Caps used for?
Not sure if this is the right product?
Reviewed by 2 customers
Best Uses
We installed this product in our kitchen over existing vinyl sheet flooring. We found it interesting to find that the new laminate floor is actually more "flat" than our existing floor. This causes some areas to have a gap between the laminate and the actual floor. Since this product has such a thick foam, we don't hear tapping when the floor flexes down, but you can feel it a little bit. So the advice on this website to make sure the base floor is very flat is good advice - and not just for basements.
Our room shape was quite complicated, with an angled cabinet and three appliance niches we had to work around (including moving the appliances). As a result, this was a lot harder to do than we had expected. We had about 200 square feet and the floor itself without any trim or transitions took us a good 14 hours. I think the folks who say they did a "whole room" in 3 hours are not telling the whole truth! Be realistic about how much time you'll need for this, especially if it is your first time.
Since you work left to right, it is easiest if the left side wall is perpendicular to your board direction. We had an angled cabinet on the left side and it caused a lot of headache keeping the boards tight to each other because the shims don't work at an angle.
I read a lot of reviews where people finished a row and looked back to find boards in the previous row had separated. I noticed this too, and fixed it by having my husband provide "ballast" to hold the adjacent boards in place while I tapped the new board in. That fixed the angled wall problem too. Working this way also allowed me to stay on the floor while he ran in and out to make the cuts - saving my knees and speeding up the process.
I noticed it was much easier (and probably provided a tighter fit) when I used the block to help me "tap" the new board into it's "clicked" flat position instead of pushing it against the existing row and jamming it down. Just a little tap and it lays flat almost by itself without any pushing.
In the "fit kit", there is a metal bar to use when you're fitting that last board into the row. I found that bar easily damaged the edge of the last board, so I used an old rag and placed it between the bar and the board. This helped a lot. I also always avoided ending a row with a long board, since the extra friction demanded some heavy hits on that metal bar and made it almost impossible not to damage the end - even with the rag.
We started to recognize certain features in the pattern of the wood picture, and worked hard to plan at least 5 rows ahead at a time so they wouldn't end up too close. You will find the "identiknot", the "Bisquit", and the "tiger stripe" to be pretty easy to work around once you know what you're looking for.
Good luck and enjoy your floor!
Best Uses
Could use better installation instructions.
Installation instructions printed on the piece recommended screws that were too small for the pre-drilled holes.
End-cap was significantly lighter in color than the planks, detracting from the overall appearance of the floor.
Do you have questions about this product?
AnswerBox - Get answers from Staff Experts and real customers by clicking "Ask a question" or click here to ask our Customer Service Team
Q:do you have an instruction sheet for installing the end cap with the laminate floor
1 answer
A:Yes type "transition" here - www.lumberliquidators.com/ll/flooring/Flooring101


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The recent article regarding the cost of volunteer background checks in the local school system prompted me to write this letter. Because of budget shortfalls in our state, the cost of background checks has been shifted to local school districts.
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HOUSTON - A robber is forcing people to drive to an ATM to withdraw money from their accounts. With each new victim, the robber's actions are getting more violent, Harris County Precinct 4 investigators said.
Two Atascocita women hoped to live out their retirement years in the comfort of their Eagle Springs neighborhood. They don't want to reveal their identities, but say a robber took their money and much more.
The first victim, in her 60s, pulled her car into her garage at her home on Mitchell Pass Lane. She still had her 7-year-old autistic granddaughter buckled in the back seat when she said a man ambushed her, demanding that she hand over her purse.
"I gave him the purse and he said, 'We're going to go to your bank and your going to withdraw money,'" said the woman. She said she watched terrified as the man climbed into her back seat, sitting inches from her granddaughter. The victim said she drove to a Bank of America ATM ON Atascocita Road and withdrew cash until she reached her limit.
A second victim told Local 2 the robber also caught her as she drove into her garage at her home on Badlands Bend Lane.
"I didn't quite get out of the car. I was just getting ready to get out and he just appeared there. He said, 'I hope I don't have to kill you,'" said the woman. The second victim said the man forced her at knifepoint to drive from her home to the same ATM to withdraw $500.
"'I'm thankful he didn't have a gun on me. I know it would've been a lot different, might have been even worse off," said the woman.
Investigators said the robber's third target, a man, didn't fare as well after he was approached at a Shell gas station on Will Clayton Parkway. They said when the man didn't withdraw enough money from the same Bank of America ATM, the thief hit him over the head with a gun and ran.
The Precinct 4 Constables Office said it is investigating and adding more patrols to the neighborhood. They are also pulling surveillance video from the ATM.
The robber, investigators said, tries to conceal his identity by wearing a painter's mask or T-shirt over his face. If you have any information about these crimes, call Precinct 4 at 281-376-3472.
Copyright 2012 by Click2Houston.com. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.


text:
Events for October 22, 2013
June 25, 2011 - December 7, 2014
Special Exhibit
Picturing Science
This exhibition features more than 20 sets of large-format images that showcase the wide range of research being conducted at the Museum as well as how various optical tools are used in scientific studies.
Through January 5, 2014
Special Exhibit
Whales: Giants of the Deep
Whales: Giants of the Deep brings visitors closer than ever to some of the mightiest, most massive, and mysterious mammals on Earth.
© Brandon Cole, Romeo/V&W, SeaPics.com
Tuesdays, September 3–October 22, 2013
Walks and Tours
Sold Out
Tuesday Morning Fall Bird Walks
Observe the exciting fall migration of birds in Central Park with ornithologist Paul Sweet.
Tuesdays, October 1−October 22, 2013
Walks and Tours
Sold Out
Lunchtime Fall Bird Walks (October 2013)
Use your lunch hour to observe birds in Central Park this fall!
Thursday, October 17, 2013−Sunday, January 12, 2014
Special Exhibit
A:shiwi A:wan Ulohnanne: The Zuni World
For a limited time, see modern Zuni paintings depicting ancestral sites throughout the Colorado Plateau.
Through September 13, 2015
Special Exhibit
Free With Museum Admission
Natural Histories
Inspired by the 2012 book Natural Histories: Extraordinary Rare Book Selections from the American Museum of Natural History Library, this exhibition will include reproductions from more than 20 rare and beautifully illustrated scientific works, dating from the 16th to the early 20th century.
October 22, 29, and November 5
Student Programs
Whales: From Feet to Flippers
Have you ever wondered where whales came from? Join us in learning how these spectacular creatures evolved from land mammals, and have adapted so perfectly to their underwater environment.
Tuesday, October 22, 2013
Members Only Programs
Members Only
Behind the Scenes in Anthropology: Whales
Members can go on a deeper exploration with Assistant Curator for Pacific Ethnology Jennifer Newell to see the Museum's rich collections of decorative, sacred, and practical objects from Maori and other Pacific peoples. Continue on a journey to Africa and to the American Northwest Coast to see a selection of whale- related cultural artifacts.


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A staple of competitive paintball, the SLY Dual Carbon BLACK line of barrels is sure to improve your game. The ultimate blend of stealth and performance, the BLACK line of barrels continues to be one of the hottest items to fly off shelves here at SLY.
Feel free to contact our customer service with any questions or concerns regarding your order at:
(724) 571-5770
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Copyright Punishers Paintball Supply © 2003-2016 All Rights Reserved
All photography and text on this site is the original work of Punishers Paintball Supply and manufacturers.
Contents may not be used for any commercial or non-commercial purpose without prior written consent from www.punisherspb.com.


text:
Leesburg, FL
Wildlife Removal Services
Centurian Services, LLC
Hours of Operation:
Centurian Services, LLC has been providing quality Animal Control Services for over 7 years in Florida and Texas. Their technicians are licensed, insured, and ready to take on any task. Call them today for a free inspection and estimate.
Animal Removal & Wildlife Services for Leesburg
- Animal Trapping
- Animal Exclusion
- Animal Damage Repair
- Dead Animal Removal
- Animal Waste Removal
- Removal of Animals Stuck in Walls
- Removal of Animals from the Attic
Animals Trapped, Removed, and Controlled by Centurian Services, LLC
- Armadillos
- Bats
- Bees, Wasps, & Stinging Insects
- Birds (including Ducks, Geese, Pigeons, and more)
- Dead Animals & Animal Carcasses
- Possums
- Raccoons
- Rodents (Rats & Mice)
- Skunks
- Snakes
- Squirrels
All Florida Locations
Wildlife Management Pros is the largest wildlife removal referral service in the country and is here to help you with all of your wildlife services needs in Florida. We connect customers like you to licensed contractors that will perform extermination, removal, cleanup, and repair services to restore your home. We have service providers in every county in Florida and connect you to them–at no cost to you!
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text:
Quality CareFind out why Mayo Clinic is the right place for your health care. Make an appointment.
Meet the StaffFind a directory of doctors and departments at all Mayo Clinic campuses. Visit now.
Research and Clinical TrialsSee how Mayo Clinic research and clinical trials advance the science of medicine and improve patient care. Explore now.
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Give to Mayo ClinicHelp set a new world standard in care for people everywhere. Give now.
Mayo Clinic offers appointments in Arizona, Florida and Minnesota and at Mayo Clinic Health System locations.
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Our general interest e-newsletter keeps you up to date on a wide variety of health topics.
What causes cholestasis of pregnancy is unclear. There may be a genetic component, as the condition sometimes runs in families and certain genetic variants have been associated with it.
Pregnancy hormones also may play a role. Bile is a digestive fluid produced in the liver that helps the digestive system break down fats. It's possible that the increase in pregnancy hormones — such as occurs in the third trimester — may slow the normal flow of bile out of the liver. Eventually, the buildup of bile in the liver allows bile acids to enter the blood stream. Bile acids deposited in the mother's tissues can lead to itching.
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A single copy of these materials may be reprinted for noncommercial personal use only. "Mayo," "Mayo Clinic," "MayoClinic.org," "Mayo Clinic Healthy Living," and the triple-shield Mayo Clinic logo are trademarks of Mayo Foundation for Medical Education and Research.
We comply with the HONcode standard for trustworthy health information: verify here.


text:
Lions' Coach Announces First Half of Incoming Class
SAINT LEO, Fla. – Coming off the most successful season in Saint Leo Cross Country history, Men's and Women's Coach Melissa Miller has announced the first four signings of her 2011-12 class as Holly Blackburn (Groveland, Fla.), Amanda Leon (Miami, Fla.), Connor Callahan (Columbus, Ohio) and Jeffery Van Natter (Spring Hill, Fla.) each signed National Letters of Intent to run at Saint Leo next season.
"I am excited about this incoming class and what each individual can bring athletically and academically," stated Miller. We are building a strong foundation and I feel each one that is brought in will help achieve our goals on the course and in the classroom. These four in particular bring a competitive background and will be excellent representatives of the team and University."
In total, the class features eight signees, including four women and four men. The remaining four runners will be featured in the coming weeks.
Amanda Leon
5'2" | Miami, Fla.
Mater Academy High School
Leon competed at Mater Academy, earning Team MVP honors during her sophomore, junior, and senior seasons. Also a star on the track, the incoming freshman collected Team MVP accolades during her junior and senior campaigns. Most recently, Leon was selected an All-Dade County Honorable Mention selectee in track, as well as Mater Academy Athlete of the Year.
Leon currently owns a personal 5K-best time of 21:59 while also posting career times in the 800M (2:25.00), the 400M (1:00.00), and the 1600M (5:47.00).
Holly Blackburn
5'4" | Groveland, Fla.
South Lake High School
Blackburn enjoyed a successful four-year tenure in the sports of track and cross country while at South Lake. On the track, she established impressive personal-best times in a trio of events, including the 1600M (5:38.44), the 3200M (12:44.28), and the 5000M (20:07.32).
In addition, Blackburn clinched fourth-place at the Walt Disney World Classic crossing the line with a time of 20:49.90. She also grabbed fifth-place at the flrunners.com Invitational (20:32.64) and solidified a third-place finish at the Disney Marathon (3:42.20).
Miller's Perspective: "Holly and Amanda will bring great endurance and speed to our squad. Holly is no stranger to our high mileage regime and Amanda will bring a pivotal burst to the pack of women runners. Each of their talents and character will contribute to the team's goal of improving our SSC finish."
Connor Callahan
5'10" | Columbus, Ohio
Bishop Hartley High School
Callahan, one the Lions three out-of-Florida recruits, ran four varsity seasons under Coach Julie Gerdeman at Bishop Hartley. Tabbed First Team All-Central Catholic League in both his junior and senior seasons, Callahan was also a regional qualifier on two occasions.
He was voted Most Improved as a sophomore, collected the Coaches Award as a junior, and was finally selected Team MVP as a senior where he set 5K personal-best time of 17:05.
Also finding time to compete in the sport of track, he was selected 'Top New Runner' as a junior.
Jeff Van Natter
5'11" | Spring Hill, Fla.
Nature Coach Technical High School
Van Natter, a local signee from Nature Coach, registered stellar times in both cross country and track.
Named All-County Cross Country in 2009 and 2010, he also saw accolades on the track side as he was deemed All-County Track and Field in 2010 and 2011. Van Natter also earned United States Marine Corps Distinguished Athlete for 2011.
He collected a 5K-best time of 17:07 and also crossed the tape with a high school best times of 4:40.00 in the 1600M and 2:03.00 in the 800M.
Miller's Perspective: "With the additions of Connor and Jeff, I can see both being competitive immediately for a top five positions on the team. With our key front runner able to compete this fall, and a gap of less than 30 seconds between the five, we are capable of improving our finish at our conference championship run."
The Lions are set to kick-off their fall championship season this September.


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Students' IRS Forms 1098T are available from Tax Credit Reporting Service (TCRS). Follow the link to TCRS, or visit www.1098T.com, the servicer for Barnard's tax credit reporting.
From there, you can read about the Education Tax Credits for which you may be eligible when you file your federal income taxes. You can also view and reprint your personal IRS form 1098T and supplementary financial information that are mailed to you by January 31 each year. These forms will assist you in preparing your federal income tax return.
Questions regarding Education Tax Credits, your 1098T form, or supplementary info? Call TCRS toll free at 1-877-467-3821.
Other useful sources of information regarding tax credits:
- US Department of Education FAQ's
- IRS Summary of Education Tax Credits
- IRS Publication 970: Tax Benefits for Higher Education
- IRSF8863: Education Credits
TCRS has been engaged by Barnard to provide this service, and we do not have further information. It is strongly recommended that you deal directly with TCRS, the IRS, or your tax advisor instead of Barnard College.


text:
New York Event and Reception Venue
A Columbia University Classic Returns
Beautifully Restored and Updated for Your Seminars, Meetings, Events and Weddings
Welcome to a new era for Faculty House, a premier event space at Columbia University in Upper Manhattan. Our campus landmark welcomes seminars, meetings, events and banquets. Whether you're coming back or arriving for the first time, Faculty House is ready to elevate your occasion with gracious, smart style.
The Dining Room will be open for service starting on September 21, 2017.
Faculty House Real Weddings
Take a look at some of the couples that have celebrated their wedding day at Faculty House.
Our Team
Meet our team. Today's introduction: Louise Castellano, Event Manager.
Take a Tour
Considering Faculty House for your next event? Take a tour of our venue.
Faculty House is located on Columbia University's East Campus on Morningside Drive, north of 116th Street.
View directions to Faculty House.


text: William Jennings Bryan College fire (Sunday February 6th) caused more than $US10 million damage to the administration building (Dayton, Tennessee USA). "Creationist" Kurt Wise's entire library, 20 years worth of slides, notes, personal correspondence, books, and publications were destroyed. No other campus buildings were burned. Historical documents from the 1925 Scopes Monkey Trial were saved, although an early edition of Darwin's "Origin of the Species" was lost. The school is named after the politician orator, who argued at the Scopes trial in support of Tennessee's ban on teaching evolution in public schools. (Ref. Wise, Scopes. fire)


text:
A GUN dealer from near York was today beginning a seven-year jail sentence over a huge arms shipment from China to Nigeria.
Gary Hyde, 43, of Mask Lane, Newton-on-Derwent, helped ship thousands of AK47 assault rifles and millions of rounds of ammunition.
He looked tearful as he was sentenced at London's Southwark Crown Court yesterday following his conviction for two counts of breaching UK trade controls and concealing criminal property. He moved the weapons without a licence and hid more than a million US dollars (£620,460) in commission payments.
The deal between the two countries' governments was lawful, but Judge Nicholas Loraine-Smith said middleman Hyde was caught out by his own greed. He failed to apply for a licence to take part in the deal, fearing it would be refused, but was attracted by the "enormous profits" to be made, the judge said.
Hyde, supported in court by his family, legitimately ran and expanded wholesale business York Guns to the point where it employed 20 staff in 2003. He has since left the company. He helped broker various arms deals, including some for the British Government.
However, in 2006 he got involved in the deal between China and Nigeria which saw up to 40,000 AK47s, 30,000 rifles and 10,000 9mm pistols go to the African nation along with 32 million rounds of ammunition.
Hyde was convicted after a retrial on two counts of becoming knowingly concerned in the movement of controlled goods between March 2006 and December 2007.
He was also found guilty of one count of concealing criminal property between March 2006 and December 2008 after he hid the profits in a bank in Liechtenstein.
Meanwhile, in America, it is not yet known whether Hyde will still have to stand trial on charges of smuggling illegal AK-47 parts into the United States. Hyde has been accused of conspiring with another York businessman, Karl Kleber, and a third man, Paul Restorick, in the alleged smuggling of AK-47 magazines, to be sold on by a firm called American Tactical Imports.
Kleber and Hyde were arrested in January last year while travelling to the US for a firearms show in Las Vegas. The US Attorney's department declined to comment yesterday on what would happen with the US case.
York Guns said in a statement last night that it had never been implicated in any wrongdoing, and no allegations had been directed at the company.
"Once we were made aware of the allegations against Mr Hyde, we undertook a full internal audit to ensure that all licensing obligations had been undertaken correctly," it said.
"We can confirm this process was completed to the satisfaction of all relevant authorities. This included a full forensic report on all company activities. This was found to contain no link to YGL and Mr Hyde's dealings abroad.
"The decision was taken by YGL to suspend Mr Hyde with immediate effect. Following the above internal investigation, Mr Hyde was summarily dismissed on the grounds of gross misconduct to enable the company to trade successfully and secure the future of its staff."


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