text:
Beachwood, Ohio -- DDR Corp. on Thursday announced the acquisition of two prime power centers for $151 million during the fourth quarter.
DDR purchased Carolina Pavilion, located in Charlotte, N.C., from Blackstone Real Estate Partners for $106 million. The 94% leased, 852,000-sq.-ft. center is anchored by Target, Kohl's, Nordstrom Rack, Ross Dress for Less, Buybuy Baby, Bed Bath & Beyond, Jo-Ann Fabric and Craft Stores and AMC Theatres.
The company also acquired Poyner Place, in Raleigh, N.C., for $45 million. The 434,000-sq.-ft. power center is 96% leased, and is anchored by Target, Ross Dress for Less, Old Navy, World Market, Shoe Carnival, and Pier 1 Imports.
Also during the fourth quarter, DDR disposed of seven non-prime operating assets for aggregate proceeds of $255 million. And it reached an agreement to recapture a 150,000-sq.-ft. store from Macy's in Pasadena, Calif. Gaining control of the space will allow DDR to launch a significant redevelopment of Paseo Colorado, a 566,000-sq.-ft. shopping center.


text:
Rules & Regulations
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Corporate Rules & Regulations
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subset: commoncrawl


text:
I am not a sports fan. I had a brief flirtation with the excitement of professional sports last October when my home team won the World Series, but by and large sporting events just don't make my radar. But there's some kind of big football event coming up, I hear?
I don't know thing one about football, other than that it's a great incentive to break out the hearty, bold man foods. And my favorite man food is pulled pork.
This is something we make pretty often, but it is a bit of a chore. Between the roasting, cooling and shredding of the meat, it's not exactly something you whip out on a Tuesday evening.
As with most labor-intensive foods, you might as well go big or go home. If you're going to invest the better part of a day making something, go ahead and make a metric ton of it, then put it up for later. Yes, you heard me: You can can meat.
You'll need a pressure canner for this. (But that's fine since you got one to can your tomatoes last summer, right? RIGHT?) Meats are low-acid foods, and even though the sauce is fairly acidic, it's not safe to can meats with the water bath method. Bonus: the secondary cooking in the high heat of the pressure canner further breaks down the connective tissues in the meat, rendering it softer and silkier than you can get from just a simple roast.
Sure, it adds an extra layer of labor to the whole process, but you'll have jars of delicious pulled pork to pull from the pantry for many sporting events to come. Whatever they are.
Pulled Pork with Carolina-style BBQ Sauce
Recipe reprinted with permission from The Fresh Girl's Guide to Easy Canning and Preserving by Ana Micka, published by Voyageur Press. Books can be found at bookstores and online booksellers and from voyageurpress.com.
Makes 3 pints
Tomato Barbecue Sauce
1 lb tomatoes, skins and seeds removed, crushed
1 c. Worcester sauce
1 c. apple juice
1 c. pineapple juice
1 c. brown sugar
Pulled Pork
3-4 lb boneless pork shoulder roast
1-1/4 c. cider vinegar, divided
1 onion, chopped
3 garlic cloves, minced
8 peppercorns
Stir together all the BBQ sauce ingredients in a heavy-bottomed pan. Bring to a boil, reduce heat and simmer for 5 minutes. Set aside.
Place pork in a large stockpot. Cover with water. Add 3/4 c. of vinegar, onion, garlic and peppercorns. Bring to a boil. Reduce heat and simmer, partially covered. Skim froth and add water as needed. Cook for 60 minutes.
Preheat oven to 350ºF. Transfer pork to a rack in a roasting pan. Pour 1/3 c. vinegar over pork. Roast 45 minutes, turning every 15 minutes. Transfer to a plate and let stand until cool enough to handle.
Reheat BBQ sauce.
Pull pork into shreds. Place into hot, sterilized pint jars. Ladle sauce over the top to fill the jar and fully cover thte meat. Leave a 1″ headspace.
Process, following your canner's instructions, for 75 minutes in a pressure canner at pressure listed for your altitude.
More from Sean and Punk Domestics:
East Meets West: Yuzu Kosho
Rany's Tomato-Meyer Lemon Chutney
Cranberryless Sauce
Apple Habanero Jelly
Pear Butter
Zucchine Sott'Olio
Fig Jam with Fennel Pollen
Canning Tomatoes
Sean Timberlake is a professional writer, amateur foodie, avid traveler and all-around bon vivant. He is the founder of Punk Domestics, a content and community site for DIY food enthusiasts, and has penned the blog Hedonia since 2006. He lives in San Francisco with his husband, DPaul Brown, and their hyperactive terrier, Reese.


text:
Are you laughing yet?
Here's the official release:
FLUSHING, N.Y., August 26, 2009 – Mets pitcher Oliver Perez today was examined by Mets Medical Director Dr. David Altchek at the Hospital for Special Surgery in Manhattan.
Upon the exam, Perez was diagnosed with patella tendon tendinosis in his right knee, which will require season-ending surgery.
He is expected to fully recover and be ready for Spring Training.
Here's the Mets starting rotation as it is currently constituted:
Mike Pelfrey
Tim Redding
Nelson Figueroa
Pat Misch
Bobby Parnell
If you weren't a Mets fan, would you recognize any of the names?


text:
ASUS Announces X102BA Touchscreen Ultraportable with AMD's Temash APUby Jarred Walton on 9/4/2013 4:02 PM EST
- Posted in
- netbook
- Asus
- Laptops
- Trade Shows
- Ultraportable
- Temash
16 Comments
Back to Article
coder543 - Wednesday, September 04, 2013 - linkNo, it won't double the number of Temash laptops out there. The more prominent, and generally better, Temash laptop on the market right now is the Acer V5-122P: http://www.amazon.com/Acer-Aspire-V5-122P-0857-11-... Reply
JarredWalton - Wednesday, September 04, 2013 - linkFixed, thanks -- I looked for "A4-1250" initially and for some reason only found the HP. Reply
andykins - Wednesday, September 04, 2013 - linkI'd be fascinated by a review of this laptop. In particular, how it compares to the popular Chromebooks. Reply
lmcd - Wednesday, September 04, 2013 - linkWrong when talking about GCN graphics and optimizations for battery life. Reply
Alexvrb - Thursday, September 05, 2013 - linkImpossible. Linux is perfect in every way, some elitist MS hating trolls on the internet told me so. ChromeOS is second best, because Google uses, I MEAN- helps the open source community, out of the goodness of their corporate hearts. Reply
silverblue - Thursday, September 05, 2013 - linkWhat? Reply
Torashin - Thursday, September 05, 2013 - linkThere are a few more than 2. There's a samsung, HP Pavilion http://www.shopping.hp.com/en_US/home-office/-/pro... and toshiba http://www.futureshop.ca/en-CA/product/toshiba-tos... Reply
Torashin - Thursday, September 05, 2013 - linkoops you included the HP Reply
JarredWalton - Thursday, September 05, 2013 - linkIt looks like the Toshiba is a Kabini laptop, not Temash, but I've added a note about the Samsung and a few other details, like the fact that this appears to be the first A4-1200 laptop (the others are using the A4-1250 and A6-1450). Reply
Edgar_Wibeau - Thursday, September 05, 2013 - linkThe Samsung Ativ Book 9 Lite also utilizes Temash Reply
JarredWalton - Thursday, September 05, 2013 - linkNoted, thanks -- and they're using the A6-1450 and including a 128GB SSD, at a rather insane price point for Temash. Yeesh. For $750, there are far better laptops (Ultrabooks even) out there I think. Reply
meacupla - Saturday, September 07, 2013 - linkWhy does this ultraportable remind me of my Lenovo X120e using E-350?
So, is this going to be faster or slower than E-450? Because that APU was slow and hot. Reply
parkerm35 - Monday, September 09, 2013 - linkThis will run around the same speed as the E-450, whilst using less than quarter the power. Reply
parkerm35 - Monday, September 09, 2013 - linkAlso, as for the heat, these chips will be found in fan-less tablets, so i think that will answer your question regarding the heat. Reply
blackboxbeast - Sunday, September 08, 2013 - linkI will second the desire for Ubuntu version. Nearly 1/4 of the price tag is for OS/software. If you want to compete in the value market ditch MS. Reply
Charlie-yankie - Saturday, November 23, 2013 - linkI have ordered this for £300, $450 from Argos UK. http://www.bubblews.com/news/1645704-asus-x102ba-t... comes with voucher for Windows store too. Reply


text:
Budget CPU Shootout: Clash of the 'ronsby Derek Wilson on 12/4/2003 10:55 AM EST
- Posted in
- CPUs
97 Comments
Back to Article
arejerjejjerjre - Wednesday, January 07, 2004 - linkSomeone said that P4 EE loses to A64 3200+ HAH LOL
arejerjejjerjre - Wednesday, January 07, 2004 - linkTHIS PROVES THAT INTEL IS THE BEST!!!!!!!!
Even the P4 3.2GHZ rulez over A64 3200+!!!!
The Extreme Edition rulez quite easily over 3200+ and 3400+!!! Reply
Skandaloes - Saturday, December 13, 2003 - link"so while Intel is quite competitive in the mid-range and high-end segments, their value processors are inexcusably slow compared to AMD."
What are you talking about? Intels mid-range segment, 2.4-2.8GHz P4's, offer the same performance as AMD's value segment Barton processors. You should do a comparison of the 2500+ and 2800+ Athlon XP's and the 2.4C, 2.6C, and 2.8C Intel P4's. I think you would be even more surprised.
The problem is you're comparing the AMD processors to Celeron ones based on their ratings which were meant for P4's. A 2500+ Athlon ($90) has about the same performance as a 2.53GHz P4 ($175) or a 2.4C P4 ($165). A 2800+ ($145) will do almost as well as a 2.8C P4 ($215).
AMD really has Intel beat in all price segment. The Value segment is completely obvious, and that's because AMD offers mid-range performance processors at value prices. The Athlon 64's control the high performance sector already, and the 3000+ should extend that advantage into the upper mid-range segment. The 3200+ costs about $20 less than a 3.2GHz P4 when configured, and the FX-51 is as fast or at least nearly as fast as the extreme edition for $200-$300 less. It's simple really. AMD offers faster processors for less in every price segment, not just the value one.
arejerjejjerjre - Saturday, December 13, 2003 - linkI am not going to post anymore its pointless you wouldn't believe me anyway! Reply
arejerjejjerjre - Thursday, December 11, 2003 - linkBy the way Celeron 2GHZ performed better in raw calculations (Pifast 3.3) than Pentium 4 1.8A
Basis for claims about celerons low performance was that it was not good in raw calculations! It's better than you think! Reply
arejerjejjerjre - Thursday, December 11, 2003 - linkYou would probably have a heart attack if I could prove to you that the review is wrong! Reply
arejerjejjerjre - Thursday, December 11, 2003 - linkHow will I prove it? You wouldn't believe anything! You'd have to see for your self that's the problem!!
Celeron has a different potential with different setting I meant!! And my test's used low end parts if you meant that!!!
Noone reads magazines anymore :)
Hard proof is hard to get! Like I said! And even if I had you on my side what does it matter? Still noone else wouldn't believe what I say!
Yes it's true I just spitted out what I have said crappy text,bad english and all that! :)
Review got me quite angry because the truth is far from what the article says.
I cant stop thinking thats my problem! What's yours? If you do not even consider something to be truth you are in denial but that's not me whos in denial then!! :) Reply
JAGedlion - Wednesday, December 10, 2003 - linkyou know someone's in denial when they start to spam the boards like arejerjejjerjre. Seriously, if that isn't spamming, what is? At least the spam in my e-mail comes with pr0n, with arejerjejjerjre its just filled with the same old crap over and over.
arejerjejjerjre, just think for a sec, I'm only asking for one second, so I am hoping that you can comply.
Yes, some things will do better when on different platforms, that is rather obviouse... So whats your point? This is anandtech, not amdzone or w/e, and as such, they are successful if and only if they are reliable. Who buys a magazine and reads it through (real reading, not liek a comic book) knowing its all crap? Just as always, you have to learn to pick your battles. arejerjejjerjre, you started off at a disadvantage because the article strongly says the opposite of what you claim, and I grant you, that makes your job even harder. But to say they lied? Come on. Admit that they are right first, then say what you want. I will belive you saying that the celerons potential was not revealed, but realize, it was not only compared to durons. It was compared to XP's. These are full fledged chips, it makes sense that they would perform better, just like the worst viper outperforms the best tercel. Second, just stop with your proclamations about the unreliability of AMD procs, try to prove your point, not bash another's. Just the same, your idea of calling people liars is also moot. Compare the palimno to the throughough bred, in paper, not in what you could do. Performance increase may not have been much for you, btu there is no doubt it is a core designed to perform better. I'm not saying your right or wrong, but you need to work on your debate skills. Lastly, these are budget chips. The key word there is budget. 50% off the price of the chip isn't a little. Add to that the fact that amd mobo's are generaly less expensive and you see that for all of Intels capability in higher end systems, little can be said for their low end element. Reply
arejerjejjerjre - Wednesday, December 10, 2003 - linkI only seen a duron run at 40 Celsius :) nothing else!
Palomino 1700+ 60 C
Thoroughbred 1700+/1800+ 50 C
Duron 1300mhz 70 C the case was quite small! :)
All the other cpus had big tower cases and good cooling!
And intels stock cooling is silent too!! Reply
arejerjejjerjre - Wednesday, December 10, 2003 - linkJustly if you got the money you should try and test it yourself that much better choice then to trust these reviews! Of Course if your afraid of what the results might be...
Moronbasher what I said about the scores going high in 3dmark01 and not in quake 3 is completely true!! Hard to believe though I didn't believe it my self first!!!
And again Intels stock cooling has allways been quite efficient enough my 2.4C is running at 42 degrees celsius!!!
Hmm my friend had maxtor 80gb in serial ata! So that is the problem then but I've seen in some people say in nforce forums that they had had corruption with other harddrives not just maxtor!
Yes VIA had had driver problems big time! But their chipset has workt greatly! And the performance difference between nforce 2 and via kt400a isnt much! Reply
MoronBasher - Tuesday, December 09, 2003 - link*i meant 9800 non pro Reply
MoronBasher - Tuesday, December 09, 2003 - link"3dmark scores went from about 9000 to 10000... Quake 3 the performance only improved from 210fps to 215fps"
OMG!!! that's the funniest statement i have ever read. Think, in ut2k3 my 2.8C can go 220fps on flyby. but 52fps on botmatch on a 1280x1024 res. my 2500+, 190 fps on flyby, but guess what, i get 55 fps on botmatch both systems are using 9500Pro.
yes, rely on 3dmark to show you how well your system performs on real world benches. Look at reviews of the 9900Non pro and the 9800XT, the difference between the card are at least 5-10 frames
on nforce 2 issue, i used to have a hard drive that used to currupt alot on my a7n8x-x. The problem was not the board but the hard drive itself. I replaced my maxtor 160Gb to a seagate 160GB, guess what my hard drive never corrupted. and that was 6 months ago. it is a driver problem most likely, as 1 driver release for the nforce cottupts hard drives.
and arguing about via as the better solution, bull crap. they have one of the worst driver record ever.
on intel stock cooling being the best... yea right, if you want your proc to be nice and toasty at 60 degrees celcius!!! the exact temerature that my barton was at stock cooling. Now that i got myself a vantec aeroflow for both my barton and my 2.8C, my barton is at 29 degrees celcius, while my 2.8C is at 37 degrees celcius. Reply
Stlr22 - Tuesday, December 09, 2003 - linkjesus, bout time this thing works! Reply
Stlr22 - Tuesday, December 09, 2003 - linkHi Reply
justly - Tuesday, December 09, 2003 - linkAgain, "Holes can be punched in all of your statements, and quite easily I might add".
If your can't recognize the obvious, is pointless for anyone to waste their time trying to educate you, so believe what you want even if it can proved otherwise.
arejerjejjerjre - Tuesday, December 09, 2003 - linkAnd when bying Intel cpu you should keep in mind that it comes with a large heatsink and good fan those things cost a almost 60e etc. alpha some cost less some more!
Amds cpus come with a tiny heatsink and small cooler they are not efficient enough for cpus they were made for! Reply
arejerjejjerjre - Tuesday, December 09, 2003 - linkAnd I was saying that Celeron would win Duron I did't say anything about athlon!
In your example they used a much better graphic card! If you remember I did the test's with a TI4200 Core:250 MEM:550 Ti4600 Core:300 MEM:600
There is also one thing that if you use the orginal opengl32.dll wich comes with quake3 you'll most likely get bad results! With Amd that does not occur atleast not if you have the newer processor driver or a 3dnow patch dont quite remember and dont need to!
arejerjejjerjre - Tuesday, December 09, 2003 - linkHaven't heard that anyone ever had any faulty Northwoods thanks for telling :) I seen a 3.06ghz blown to pieces when overclocked too much! :)
And for the Thoroughbred death sundrome I read about it on nvplanet or some other major site don't remember! (Of course they can deceive if that's not too hard for you to believe)
My friends don't do much of adjusting settings!!! :)
Nforce 2 is quite annoying when hardrive is being used in serial ata! It corrupts the harddrive safe to say once a week and there is nothing that could fix it friend used the latest bios and instructions from manufacturer no use!
Because many of my friends have amd based system I have been able to run some test on how different a palomino core and thoroughbred is!
I found out that when changed from palomino to thoroughbred 3dmark scores went from about 9000 to 10000 quite an increase on the performance I'd say!!! But when tested game performance (AGAIN) with Quake 3 the performance only improved from 210fps to 215fps. So the conclusion is that amd didn't made the new core so that it would be faster but they made it for marketing reasons because 3DMark01 was very popular testing program and the new core would give quite a boost to performance in reviews!
justly - Tuesday, December 09, 2003 - linkvinicastro, it is very possible that the 2.6GHz celeron is bandwith limited (quake is a very bandwith hungry benchmark) and the difference is less than 1.5 FPS or 1%, well within a range of error.
Also the Athlon/Duron core uses exclusive cache while Intel uses inclusive cache design so in all actuality the duron has a total of 192KB of cache compared to the celerons 128KB.
When comparing an overclocked celeron you have to aslo realize that the increased FSB provides more bandwidth and faster responce to memory calls, and that has a great impact on the P4 core design. Reply
justly - Tuesday, December 09, 2003 - linkThe problem is you are not using an analytical approach in your statements, take this one for example.
"How the hell is that even possible to get 150 fps in quake 3 and with 640x480 ??????Anandtech sure knows how to cheat in benchmarks!!
I got sometime ago a Celeron 2ghz and TI4200 and I scored 170 fps with 1024 resolution!!!!!!!(Every other option to the best grahics mode!)
so how is it possible that they could get such bad results??!!!(AND they even had a RADEON 9800!!!) CHEATERS!!! Trying to mock Intel!!"
You say you did this some time ago, well Tomshardware did a celeron review some time ago also and he got a score of 178.6 FPS at a resolution of 1024 x 32bit using a 2.0GHz celeron with a TI4600. This does not prove that you are correct since Tomshardware tested using "Demo001" and Anandtech has been using Demo004 for their reviews. In fact Tomshardware lowest speed Athlon in the test was the 1600+ and it scored 211.6 FPS.
As for this comment.
"Amds cpu really suck they dont work correctly and the life span is quite sort if you have a amd cpu dont be surprised if someday your computer wont start! ITS JUST AMD QUALITY!!!!! "
I find this funny since I have four Amd systems in my house right now each with AT LEAST 2 years running time and all of them run fine and they range from a AMD 486 to a socket "A".
Again you come across with inadequate detail with this statement.
"There was a significant amount of processors wich suddenly just died!"
And this didn't happen with the northwood or have you forgot about SNDS. Failing is one thing having the user kill it is another, so show me some proof that AMD processors die without the user causing it.
Holes can be punched in all of your statements, and quite easily I might add.
Finally to finish this off lets take a look at this.
"And justly I seen too many Amd system's they hardly work at all! All of my friends possess some sort of amd rig and theres allways something not working or not working correctly"
Well if your friends possess the same computer prowess that you display I think it is safe to use one of your own statments as an answer.
"You'd have to fuck it up yourself for it not work!" Reply
vinicastro - Tuesday, December 09, 2003 - linkI dont' belive in this results. Simply because in others tests the results are very diferent. Note in Quake3 test that the Celeron 2,4 is better than the Celeron 2.6.
The Celeron 2.6 have 2x cache and 1GHz clock plus the Duron 1.6.
In others sites tests the Celeron 2.0 is a litte bit slower than an XP 1600. With overclock performs better than XP 1600.
Also note the huge AMD advertises in the tests pages. Something smell very bad here. Reply
arejerjejjerjre - Tuesday, December 09, 2003 - linkLol justly!
It quite obvious that celeron's can do much better even with more lower end parts than that wich was used in the review!
Compatibility issues with Intel? Never heard of them! Didn't know even that such term existed! :)
You'd have to fuck it up yourself for it not work!
And justly I seen too many Amd system's they hardly work at all! All of my friends possess some sort of amd rig and theres allways something not working or not working correctly!
I think that Nforce chipset's suck! Via works much better! And That's why my mini pc Shuttle has a via chipset inside and duron 700 ;) works quite well most of the time! Shuttles heatpipe cooler is GREAT!
Thats right I got one Amd based computer! :)
Doop - Monday, December 08, 2003 - linkIntel isn't the perfect when it comes to compatibility. I have crippling problems with the Pentium 4 denormalizing bug that forces a system lock up when I use some audio software. I simply cannot use that software anymore because the work arounds are too time consuming for efficent work flow.
I seriously regret buying a Pentium 4.
As for the Celeron...people should be warned that they suck bad. It's funny that people critisize the article because it doesn't compare apples to oranges.
What I saw was the Duron kicking the Celerons arse. No need to read more into it than that. Reply
Quixfire - Monday, December 08, 2003 - linkLooks like the Athlon XP 2200+ will be my next processor. Reply
MoronBasher - Monday, December 08, 2003 - linkarejerjejjerjre, go to the corner with AMDjihad, and maybe both of you could join the special olympics. Hell, you're both overly qualified. Reply
justly - Sunday, December 07, 2003 - linkIt should be blatantly obvious that arejerjejjerjre demonstrates such extreme Intel bias that his comments can only be classified as witless. His presence is only beneficial as a source of humor for the rest of us. His unrelenting and repetitive posts filled with inaccuracy only prove that he is unwilling to accept anything other than his own biased opinion that Intel is superior in all aspects of processor performance even when we have seen this proven wrong time and time again. I do believe Intel has some good products but not to the point that I am blind to the truth, because so does AMD. I think it is obvious to most people that AMD has the best price to performance ratio in all areas except where Intel can compete with a 800MHz FSB and hyperthreading or specific apps (such as encoding) and that is even becomming less apparent when compared to the Athlon 64.
If I had any problem with this article it would be that Anandtech didnt test using chipsets that are more commonly used with these processors. Since this article is meant to show processor performance not system performance I see no problem not because it showed AMD in a good light but because Anandtech gave BOTH platforms the benifit of a better performing chipset than they probably would get in real life. Reply
arejerjejjerjre - Sunday, December 07, 2003 - linkYou are quite wrong about how much the celeron has to offer at least in games I have tested it with low end parts: celeron 2ghz,abit bd7-II,some 333mhz 256mt 32e memory so if that isnt a cheap computer nothing is! (Graphic cards much worse than yours ti4200 :( ) and my celeron performed quite well! Not as well as my 1.8A P4!
With Celeron 2ghz I got 170 fps in quake 3 and with 1.8A I got 225 fps and with better graphics than that what was used in anandtechs review!
And the problem with comparing P4 EE with fx51 is that p4 ee is old tech and still quite the best! Amd had to use complete new structure :socket,chipset and other things to get comparable results! When Prescott arrives we will see again that Intel rulez! This same rutine has repeated it self for some time now and never has intel been defeated when they have launched their brand new processor or chipset! Reply
Wesley Fink - Sunday, December 07, 2003 - link#68&69 - Pentium 4 3.2GHz does indeed beat Barton 3200+, and we have stated that in our own tests. Barton 3200+ performs more on the level of a 2.8 to 3.0 Pentium 4 800FSB and the older performance rating is not very accurate compared to 800FSB Pentium 4 chips.
However, Athlon64 3200+ is at least the equal of the P4 3.2 and in most cases it is actually faster. As we have stated in our reviews, AMD revised their Performance Rating with the A64 and it is actually a bit conservative. The top enthusiast Athlon64 FX51, which does not carry a Performance Rating, clearly outperforms everything we have tested - including the P4EE.
This article is about the Bargain CPU's, where Duron/AthlonXP/Barton, the older technology AMD chips, clearly outperform the similarly priced Intel Celeron chips. This is simpler than it first appears and is a result of the differences in architecture. Pentium 4 requires huge bandwidth for best performance, and the Celeron can't deliver that bandwidth. AMD chips don't require the same bandwidth for top performance and do well with what the bargain chips can deliver. Reply
arejerjejjerjre - Sunday, December 07, 2003 - linkAnd I didnt mean any small site articles!! Reply
arejerjejjerjre - Sunday, December 07, 2003 - linkTheres this one thing I'am curious about!!
I've seen many articles wich clearly say intel wins amd es p4c 3200 vs barton 3200+ and after a period similar articles appear and they seem to indicate a performance loss in intel based system! Results are clearly being altered!
arejerjejjerjre - Sunday, December 07, 2003 - linkActually Its the P4 EE that wins by a mile :)
and for this test seen here results are clearly tampered! Own experience proves it! I just don't know how someone could believe so blindly those test results! :) LOL
If someone would send me some money or duron based computer and a celeron cpu I would perform the tests for you all and you would see that that the results are wrong! Reply
Gage8 - Saturday, December 06, 2003 - linkgrammar correction...
(Ed seemed to have harsh words) Reply
Gage8 - Saturday, December 06, 2003 - linkEd over at OC didn't seem to have some harsh words over this article. However, I liked the duron/celery comparison. That was quite enlightening. Reply
Pumpkinierre - Saturday, December 06, 2003 - linkSorry #52 Derek, about that statement- must be the UV mod in my case blurring the eyes. However I have seen other articles where larger caches 'get in the way' with some apps. And I still stand by my base postulate that caches inherently increase system latency particularly for programs requiring fast spontaneous user control ie gaming. Unless the whole of the .exe program and settings can be contained in the cache (which basically voids system memory) then the cache has to be purged and refreshed with the required instructions and data at the whim of the user. The ideal for gaming is CPU and RAM running at the same speed- no cache. Large caches are perfect for predictable usage programs: Office,CAD/2D Graphics,Video encoding/streaming,server etc(hence large cache Xeons and opterons).The internal CPU registers and buffers are 32bit (4bytes)-so not much information is required but it must be the correct information. This is why the P4 L1 cache is only 8K cf. to the earlier P3 which had 16K-quicker to purge if wrong info, and the fact that it is inclusive to the L2 cache which again decreases the latency should the user decide to return to that part of the game in the next instant of play. This (in conjunction with large memory bandwidth) is why P4s feel smoother in play. The other alternative is no L2 cache and a slightly larger L1 cache (128 or 256K split data/commands is enough) explaining the Duron's longevity despite slow CPU speed and hence my ideal K8 CPU(see #51).
CPU testing for gaming should be carried out by an operator playing the game. Demo testing involves the required sections of the game program with an input control file- all loaded into cache and all nicely predictable. In an operator driven test, the true measure of the CPU is largest MINIMUM frame rate and the true measure of the whole system is smallest differential bet. maximum and minimum frame rates. If you took these as your tests and measure you'd find your celerons (and Duron) doing well for their price. Reply
JungleMan1 - Saturday, December 06, 2003 - linkArejeje whatever your name is
Desktop processors: AMD wins by a mile with Athlon FX
Mobile: I might have to give the upper hand to Intel on this one, Pentium M is a nice chip
Low end: HAHAHAHAHAHAH!! Celeron loses flat-out, as you can see in this article! Please, someone ban this tard! Reply
arejerjejjerjre - Saturday, December 06, 2003 - linkDid I mention that amds heat problems are the last straw the stock cooler is terrible! Only whith water can you cool your Amd cpu enough!!
Intel provides a very good heatsink and fan that doesnt need to be replaced only the thermal paste should be removed!
Now I know a way you amd folks could benefit from your machine you could use it to heat the house think about it! Garbage could be but in to use!!!!!! Reply
arejerjejjerjre - Saturday, December 06, 2003 - linkIt seems that you amd folks live in the biggest denial of all time!! LOL
desktop processors amd loses(P4 EE vs crappy name p4 wins)
laptop processors amd loses (1,6ghz Pentium M better than 2400+)
low end duron vs celeron amd loses(intel wins but poorly :(, but thats going to change when the newer celerons come)
I just wonder if amd is going to survive with new factory being built :) Lately they had had so big losses that its just a miracle they have even survived the competition!! Business is business and theres no room for amd there! Reply
Shinei - Saturday, December 06, 2003 - linkIt's not the size of your stick, it's how well you use it that counts. Develop a CPU that only does 1.4GHz but processes 20 instructions per clock and it doesn't MATTER if you have a 3.2GHz chip, it just can't compete in pure computational strength. Megahertz myth hard at work. Reply
AnonymouseUser - Saturday, December 06, 2003 - linknovice said: "Definitely proving once again that clockspeed doesn't really mean much and AMD's "Performance Rating System" is not just a marketing tool."
Wow! You are only a NOVICE and figured that out! Many "Pros" still can't seem to grasp that simple concept. Makes me wonder who verified them as "Pros". Then again, maybe they've just become brain-dead from trying to figure out which Intel CPU is the faster version.
CRAMITPAL - Saturday, December 06, 2003 - linkThe Intel fanboys just live in DENIAL even when their favorite hardware review sites show them hard data time and time again, that AMD's Duron/Athlon/A64/FX/Opteron are faster than Intel's best and AMD's products cost less, run cooler and are available NOW. Ya gotta wonder how long these folks can survive in DENIAL??? Reply
arejerjejjerjre - Saturday, December 06, 2003 - linkMoronBasher buy a celeron machine and compare the results to anandtechs review you'll see the difference yourself! (By the way i didnt say that a celeron could ever beat anything else then amds low end!)
I wonder why they used so high latencies in the tests? Of course because they noticed a celeron would perform poorly with that kind of settings! Reply
arejerjejjerjre - Saturday, December 06, 2003 - linkNow I know why the internet has been so slow lately!!!!!!! Its because Intel based servers have been replaced with amds crappy systems!!!!!!! Reply
MoronBasher - Saturday, December 06, 2003 - linkPeople, keep returning your "dead" procs back to the store, cuz guys like me get them for free. LOL!!!
What i found amzing was the fact that anandtech used ddr400 and they also used pretty high latency timings Reply
novice - Saturday, December 06, 2003 - linkWow, while the socket 370 Celerons also trailed the Durons, at least they were close. The current crop is really sad, compared to the AMD products. Definitely proving once again that clockspeed doesn't really mean much and AMD's "Performance Rating System" is not just a marketing tool. Reply
MoronBasher - Saturday, December 06, 2003 - linkarejerjejjerjre, you are a moron. Do you honestly believe amd chips just die? I am a computer maintenance technician and from the returns we get from stupid customers, it's not the proc that's the problem, it was the mobo... i could guarantee 99% of the time, the proc is not to blame. i have a 2500+ and a 2.8C and i have no problems with either. Errors? usually comes from drivers. or a moron like you who doesn't know how to set a computer up properly. Reply
DerekWilson - Friday, December 05, 2003 - linkfrom #51:
"This latency is seen in some of the tests where the Barton performs worse than lesser clocked A-XPs despite a larger L2 cache."
The first XP chip clocked lower than the Barton is the 2200+ (1.800 GHz) which doesn't ever come close to touching the 1.833 GHz 2500+ Barton. AFAIK, all Athlon XP L2 caches (including Duron) have the same latency. I don't know this for a fact (though I highly suspect it), but it would be an easy test (just need to plug in sisoft sandra and look at cache latency).
Honestly, the fact that there are only a very few benchmarks where the HIGHER clocked 2400+ (2 GHz) can touch the Barton shows how important large cache size is in increasing overall system performance. Even the high latency L3 cache (which is still much lower latency than main memory) on the P4 EE helps to push performance much higher than on similarly clocked P4 CPUs.
The whole point of any ondie cache is to reduce latency between main memory and the processor. Having a large L1 L2 and even L3 cache doesn't increase latency, it decreases it overall. Without a cache, every single memory access takes a large number of cpu cycles to get to the processor, and much time is spent waiting for data.
Things get complicated when looking between Intel and AMD. AMD has a larger low latency L1 cache, but Intel's L2 cache is lower latency than AMD's L2 cache. But I think I'll save that analysis for another day :-)
Really the only advantage (aside from the cost savings) of cutting out a large ammount of cache is that you can more easily clock the chip higher. But that only really gives you a performance advantage if you can increase the clock enough to overcome the performance loss due to the lack of cache. The original Celerons could actually exceed this performance and that's why they were so sought after. The difference here is that P4 architecture is so much more sensitive to memory latency that we really can't hope for these kinds of performance gains.
I don't think that even overclocking a P4Celeron to 3.6GHz would help enough to matter. But hopefully we'll find out in an upcoming article ;-) Reply
Pumpkinierre - Friday, December 05, 2003 - linkWhat people forget about the original celeron 300 (no L2 cache) was that it was lousy in benchmarks but gamers loved it because of its low latency and overclockability both of which are hindered by cache addition. The same applied to K6-2(no L2 cache) vs K6-3(256Mb L2). This is why these celerons are still out there as the demo benchmarks dont reflect the true gaming experience ie spontaneous response by the user. The other requirement is raw grunt(floating point calculation), province of the K7, which explains the Duron's longevity despite low clock speed. This CPU also has a very small 64K exclusive L2 cache, ideal for low system latency (and 64Kb is the memory unit of the X-86 based systems). This latency is seen in some of the tests where the Barton performs worse than lesser clocked A-XPs despite a larger L2 cache. And as I stated above real world gaming accentuates this quality further.
Its true that the vast gain in cpu speed cf. memory speed has required a middle man ie cache. But if that middle man doesnt have the goods then re ordering takes time. My favorite theoretical gaming CPU would be a K8 without L2 cache (perhaps with 256Kb L1 cache) which in conjunction with the on die memory controller and optimised fpu would have very low system latency. Reply
sonyboy851 - Friday, December 05, 2003 - linkall of you AMD haters need to get a clue. 48: what nforce 2 board did you use? And AMD systems are just as stable as Intel ones. Why have IBM and Sun chosen AMD Optorons for their servers? I doubt its because they are unstable. Maybe its because Intel cant offer such a great product.
Anyways, this is a budget review, so I shouldnt even mention that. So you think Celerons are good? Is that what your saying? Reply
CRAMITPAL - Friday, December 05, 2003 - linkSame old shit from the criminally insane Intel fanboys. Must really bruise your ego to have your face punched in every day by online reviews showing how pathetic Intel products are! Get use to it as things are only going to get worse for Intel and it's fanboys.
Xbit Labs is reporting Intel can't even produce EE's and that the Flame Throwing Prescotts are a disaster. Intel has so many production and design problems that they can't resolve, they may need to release Tejas as an even bigger FLAME THROWER than Prescott. And by all accounts the Xeon even with L3 is dead.
I'd suggest anyone with a clue, buy stock in water-cooling companies and liquid nitrogen producers. Reply
arejerjejjerjre - Friday, December 05, 2003 - linkAnd for those amd folk out there! You will never have the stability and flexibility what intel based machine can offer! I've seen too many amds aka too many problems,errors,etc!
Theres allways something that doesnt work on an amd system!!! :)
By the way if anyone hasnt noticed NFORCE 2 is the worse I've ever seen! Nothing works as it should! :) LOL! Reply
arejerjejjerjre - Friday, December 05, 2003 - linkThe celeron test i mentioned earlier was done with far worse system than i posses now so something is defienetly wrong with anandtechs benchmarking method or how they are reported!!
They seem to have "lost" some points in making the articles! Reply
arejerjejjerjre - Friday, December 05, 2003 - linkMost of amd processors have been flukes i dont think they can make anything else!! Like the thouroughbred!! There was a significant amount of processors wich suddenly just died!
When you clone enough you get these kind of flukes :) LOL FOR AMD!!!!!!1 Reply
arejerjejjerjre - Friday, December 05, 2003 - linkAmds cpu really suck they dont work correctly and the life span is quite sort if you have a amd cpu dont be surprised if someday your computer wont start! ITS JUST AMD QUALITY!!!!! Reply
arejerjejjerjre - Friday, December 05, 2003 - linkcheater site doesnt even work correctly!
arejerjejjerjre - Friday, December 05, 2003 - linkHow the hell is that even possible to get 150 fps in quake 3 and with 640x480 ??????
Anandtech sure knows how to cheat in benchmarks!!
I got sometime ago a Celeron 2ghz and TI4200 and I scored 170 fps with 1024 resolution!!!!!!!(Every other option to the best grahics mode!)
so how is it possible that they could get such bad results??!!!(AND they even had a RADEON 9800!!!) CHEATERS!!! Trying to mock Intel!!
Now my system is Abit IC7-G,P4 2.4C (800fsb),TI4800(Gainward as was my TI4200),Kingston hyperx 3000(370mhz@400mhz),maxtor sata 120gt in INTEL RAID(It is the fastest no doubt about it!)
and of course the greatest device of all time 56k modem!! :)
now with that machine I score about 305 fps(it varys in range of 300-310) in quake 3 with 1024x768 and other options to best graphics! Reply
DrFreeze - Friday, December 05, 2003 - linkGreat Article!
I would LOVE to see you add in another lesser known cheap CPU alternative though. It is the $20 Slot-T CPU Upgrade Adapter with a $37 Intel Celeron 1.4GHz 100MHz 256K CPU OEM. It is only running 1.4GHz but yet it is built on the PIII core so it is not hurt as much as the PIV is by branch mispredicts. It might be surprising at how well it performs, and then again, it is only using SDRAM so it might not be. =)
Dr. Ffreeze
$20 Slot-T CPU Upgrade Adapter
$37 Intel Celeron 1.4GHz 100MHz 256K CPU
BlackShrike - Friday, December 05, 2003 - linkWe can at least conclude one thing. Anyone who bought the AMD 2500+ got an awesome CPU, whether you overcloacked it or not, it has the performance of a INTEL 2.4 B, but the price of sub $90. And you know, with the extra money you saved, you can get a radeon 9700 Pro or 9800 Pro instead of a radeon 9600 pro or gefroce 5700 Ultra. For once I think I can say this definitively, THE IMPLICATIONS ARE CLEAR AMD ROCKS THE MID TO CHEAP MARKET ANYWAY YOU LOOK AT IT.
Thank you, I just had to say that. Reply
DerekWilson - Friday, December 05, 2003 - linkto update what I just mentioned, that prescott number would have been a little higher if we had had the 1.02 patch for halo at that point (it removed needless memory usage checks in the timedemo mode). Reply
skiboysteve - Friday, December 05, 2003 - link35 just got dick slaped
go derek
die 35 Reply
DerekWilson - Friday, December 05, 2003 - link#35:
We wanted to test the upper limit of performance on these processors, so we eliminated as many other bottlenecks in the system as possible.
This is very useful, because it will let you know that you will absolutely not (with current high end technology) be able to acheive more than 34 fps with a celeron 2.6 under Halo at 10x7. When you start adding more bottlenecks to the system (like slower and less RAM and a budget video card) you will end up with an even lower frame rate.
If you take a look at our article with the 256MB 9800 Pro (benched on Prescott 2.8GHz) you will see that we only hit 43.8 fps (slower than with the barton 2500+), and with the Athlon64 FX51 we were able to get 60.5 fps out of a 9800XT card. The barton hit 51.5 fps with the 9800Pro256.
What that says to me is that if you buy a barton 2500+, you are very close to elminiating the processor as a bottleneck in Halo compared to the current fastest gaming system on the market.
That's not bad for less than $100 if you ask me. Reply
tonyp1023 - Friday, December 05, 2003 - linkI repair and build pc's in a small college town in upstate NY so I get a good sampling of whats out there in bargain PC land. My off the top of my head statistic is about five to one on dead Athlon/Duron systems compared to Intel Celeron P3/P4 systems. I have read and seen that AMD cpus are more prone to thermal failures than Intel and my repair data bears this out. Or cheap motherboards die quicker because of poorer QC on their assembly lines. Whatever, I won't build clones out of AMD's because I don't want them coming back to haunt me. A warranty is a terrible thing to have to honor (and I always do) but the Intel machines seldom come back to haunt me. Reply
LoneWolf15 - Friday, December 05, 2003 - link(Quoted)
"These Sub-$100 CPUs serve as decent upgrades for aging systems (e.g. the P3-800 that is barely chugging along) when combined with a new motherboard, but they are also the heart and soul of many of today's sub-$1000 PCs that you'd find in the retail market."
OT a little, but "barely chugging along"? A P3-800 still runs stuff pretty well with enough RAM (which is pretty darn cheap), a 7200rpm hard disk, and if you want to game a bit, a good budget 3D graphics card. Yeah, the Duron is a great chip, so is the Athlon XP 2500+, but for those locked into a case/motherboard setup, an old P3-800 can be made to do a lot of newer tricks.
INTC - Friday, December 05, 2003 - linkSo who would put a "Budget" chip into a high end platform that included:
ATI Radeon 9800Pro 256MB
2 x 256MB DDR400 at 2-3-3-6 (frequency chosen by the BIOS)
2 x Western Digital Special Edition Hard Disk Drive
Even for enthusiasts, if you can afford a Radeon 9800Pro then you probably can afford a high-end CPU. Even if someone bought an Athlon XP 2500+ to overclock, they probably shelled out extra money somewhere (heatsink, power supply, high-end RAM, extra fans, etc.) in order to get a successful overclock so their system would not be considered "budget" any longer.
Budget CPUs fall mostly into the ultra cheap integrated video all-in-1 systems sold at retail stores. eMachines and HP typically have Celeron systems on sale in every sale flyer almost every Sunday. Their cheapest systems feature Celeron processors and their AMD systems are typically several hundred dollars more.
I'm not sure what percentage of the market on Celerons is through boxed processors or individual OEM chips but I've heard that Intel is able to sell every single Celeron chip that they are currently making. So, someone is buying them - a whole bunch of them!
As for the Athlon XP and Durons, I'm not an expert in economics, but if demand surpasses supply then prices would increase for a product and the inverse is true which says that if supply is greater than demand then prices decrease in order to spark more demand. So if Celerons and P4s sell enough to get more than 80% of the market for CPUs, did AMD make too many Athlon XPs and Durons or is nobody bying them or a little of both? Maybe they should limit the quantity that they produce and their products would sell at a higher price premium - case and point are the Athlon FX and 64 chips - they haven't made very many of those so they can keep the prices high as long as demand is greater than supply. Reply
CRAMITPAL - Friday, December 05, 2003 - linkWell for the non-believers... Ace's Hardware has a good review of Opteron vs. Xeon that should (but won't) end the bickering regarding server performance. Between Anand's low end CPU review, Ace's Server review, and any number of A64/EE reviews, it should be obvious where the future of PC X86 computing lies. No it's not the G5 Mac as Ace's demonstrated.
Enjoy ! Reply
JeremiahTheGreat - Friday, December 05, 2003 - linkIf AMD bothered to update its ageing MP chipset, it would indeed be! And with the rumoured dual-mp chipset from nVidia down the drain.. there's not much left in this area.
Save for dual-opterons :) Reply
jawg - Friday, December 05, 2003 - linkHas anyone done any research on dual Duron setups? I think that if they are so cost effective and you wanted to have a dual processor box it would be a most noble pursuit. Reply
AnonymouseUser - Friday, December 05, 2003 - link"$40 for a Celeron 1.2 (which overclocks easily to 1.6 on a 133 mhz bus). I'd be curious to see how it stacked up against the P4 Celerons."
Why? The performance would still be abysmal at any price point. What's the point?
"Intel can afford to charge an arm and a leg for CPUs that perform on this level, why can't AMD?"
It's called MARKETING + ID10Ts. The world is full of uninformed consumers who are pushed to Intel by the fucking ID10T geeks (who apparently outnumber the non-ID10T geeks)...
HammerFan - Friday, December 05, 2003 - linkSupport you AMDjihad? never. While I do like AMD, one has to wonder why such high-performing CPUs are priced so low. Intel can afford to charge an arm and a leg for CPUs that perform on this level, why can't AMD? Reply
AMDjihad - Friday, December 05, 2003 - linksee intel is being beat on all fronts zserdw you faatty pugly thing. how can you suppooot intek huh you fatty. you thing. everyone suoport me dumbas Reply
KGB - Thursday, December 04, 2003 - link/Pet's his 1.3 Tualatin Celeron box @ 1.73 :D Reply
srue - Thursday, December 04, 2003 - link#16 Kristopher:
That's probably what I'm going to do, but it would be nice if I didn't have to. Reply
Spacecomber - Thursday, December 04, 2003 - linkSpeaking of Tualatins (#19), where are the the Tualatin Celerons? ;-) They have 256kb of cache, making them very similiar to coppermine PIIIs
$40 for a Celeron 1.2 (which overclocks easily to 1.6 on a 133 mhz bus). I'd be curious to see how it stacked up against the P4 Celerons.
Space Reply
HammerFan - Thursday, December 04, 2003 - linklol @ Kyler's comment, I'm sure he's right :D Reply
tfranzese - Thursday, December 04, 2003 - linkgood comparison Derek, I knew AMD would be faster but the margin was surprising to say the least. Reply
Kyler - Thursday, December 04, 2003 - link#22 here:Ack sorry guys was just testing my login from a few months again.
My comment to #20, you're just pissed cause you wanted to show her your sprocket :p Reply
Kyler - Thursday, December 04, 2003 - linkReply
DerekWilson - Thursday, December 04, 2003 - linkSo, I know I didn't explain this, but we used 2x256MB memory modules in each system, and both the AMD and Intel systems were running in Dual Channel mode.
In other words, The Intel CPU was supplied with plenty of memory bandwidth. There may have been some small issues with the clocks not matching, but we made everything run as fast as we could, and if it made a difference at all, it would be negligable. Reply
sprockkets - Thursday, December 04, 2003 - linkOr in other words she bought the Compaq and not the computer I was going to build. Reply
sprockkets - Thursday, December 04, 2003 - linkWithout cache and fast FSB and memory the P4/selloutron are crap. I thought though that some of the bottlenecks were removed, but I guess not, a simple 1.6ghz processor kills most if not all Intel's low end all the time.
That also pisses me off, I'm pretty sure that 2 years ago a potential customer of mine went for a 1.6 Celeron P4 series processor instead of a 1ghz P3 Tulatin. She said I'm going to pass, she of course didn't know why I was sticking in a "slower" processor. Reply
EglsFly - Thursday, December 04, 2003 - linkSome people are blinded by clock speed... Intel knows this and will continue to design chips to sell to the unwise. It wouldn't surprise me if Intel would design a chip that clocked 5GHz, but performed like a 1GHz Pentium III. People would still buy it.
Its time for the average joe to wake up already!
Smell the crap Intel is shoveling... Reply
CRAMITPAL - Thursday, December 04, 2003 - linkAnother day, another reality check. God bless America and AMD !
:>)) Reply
KristopherKubicki - Thursday, December 04, 2003 - link#11 srue: Click "print this article" and you will get all the graphs on one page. :)
Kristopher Reply
DAPUNISHER - Thursday, December 04, 2003 - link#9, That would defeat the entire purpose behind a budget CPU review. The market segment this addresses is the average consumer on a tight budget looking to get the most for their money. Enthusiasts like ourselves have different perspective than the average user. They aren't likely to ever open the case let alone upgrade just the CPU later. Also, many mainstream consumers are extending their upgrade cycle between computer purchases due to economic reasons combined with things like word processing, solitaire, E-mail and internet use not requiring more power than their P3 system they bought a couple years ago can provide.Many who would buy a AMD or Intel based budget system now might not upgrade again for 2-3years at which time the upgradability of either current platform in the budget catagory will be meaningless.
Besides, how do you put a price on all those months they had to wait for the P4 3.2 to hit a price they could afford, or they had saved enough money to upgrade the CPU, while they could have had much better performance for those months by using the AMD? Of course the faster HDD is still a better investment for most than the better CPU IMO. Reply
DAPUNISHER - Thursday, December 04, 2003 - linkI agree that coupling the Celery with dual channel 3200DDR and overclocking it would get it more competitive with the stock AMD CPUs in this review, but it doesn't seem it's going to give a an AMD in the same price range any trouble once it's overclocked with 3200DDR in dual channel on a nF2 board.
As mentioned by another already, OEMs still turn out massive numbers of Celery based budget systems simply because Intel is a household name and most of the average consumers usage isn't stressful enough to make any real world performance difference that they notice. A budget system sold with a 7200rpm HDD instead of a 5400rpm model would be more likely to make a difference than the CPU for most folks.
Anywho, neither the Duron nor Celery appeal to most enthusiasts, but it does help me sell AMD systems to clients when I can direct them to reviews like this to show how much bang for their buck in the ultra-budget catagory AMD offers :D So thanks for contributing to me making a few sells Derek :) Oh, well done on the article too, very few typos and it was fairly straight and to the point. Reply
Wesley Fink - Thursday, December 04, 2003 - linkThe overclocking story here is very important to determining true value. Pop a 2500+ in a Socket A 400 motherboard, set the FSB to 200 from the stock 166 and in most cases you have a 3200+. Even the multiplier is the same for the 2500+ and 3200+. In most cases you don't even need to up the voltage, though with some CPUs a small boost is necessary. I am hearing from readers that the recent 2500+ are not quite as good at this as those of just a few months ago, but I have had great success with every 2500+ I have used.
3200+ performance for $86 is a bargain indeed. Certainly, in terms of overclocked performance, the 2500+ is in my mind the bargain chip of 2003. Reply
jkreese - Thursday, December 04, 2003 - linkYo Shinei...I think they wanted to remove the video card as a possible bottleneck to the test. Using the fastest video card gives a better CPU comparison. Although it would have been nice to see what a "value" video card would do with these same processors. Reply
srue - Thursday, December 04, 2003 - linkEnough with the one graph per page, especially when they all say the same thing. You could have easily put 4 or more graphs on a page, but then you wouldn't have got all your banner loads. Come on people, you encourage system builders to do what's best for the customers - the least you can do is make the readers your priority as well. Reply
Shinei - Thursday, December 04, 2003 - linkUm, what budget system drops in a 256Mb Radeon 9800 Pro/XT, again? The card would cost more than the rest of the system!!! ;)
Would have been more realistic results with an FX5200, since that's what just about every OEM computer comes with these days, except for the extreme high end that come with 9800 Pro's for $2000+. Reply
jkreese - Thursday, December 04, 2003 - linkI knew the Athlons would blow away the Celerons. I also know that, given the motherboards you used in this comparison, you have better upgrading choices with the Celeron that the Athlon. I could buy the 2.6 G Celeron and later upgrade to a 3.2 G Pentium 4 which would easily defeat all the Athlons in this comparison. You don't have many upgrading options with the Athlons. Reply
Oxonium - Thursday, December 04, 2003 - linkI have been able to overclock an Celeron 2.4 to 3.4 pretty easily with stock cooling and no voltage increase. But given the performance delta between the Celeron and Athlon/Duron, I'll probably be upgrading to an Athlon (Barton) for my next budget system. I'm actally looking at the mobile Athlons so I can have a cooler system.
About the ads, I've agree they are getting more annoying lately. There are 19 alone on the home page, including the sponsored links. Plus there are some of the words in all the articles that are linked to ads, although I find this less annoying. I understand that Anandtech is a business and needs to make money to keep operating but this is getting bad. Reply
Keeksy - Thursday, December 04, 2003 - linkGreat article. I never knew the Celeron was such a bad performer. If I had to build a new machine on budget, I'd definitely go with a Barton Athlon.
Hey, what's with the freaking huge ads at the top of every page? Really annoying. Reply
pxc - Thursday, December 04, 2003 - linkI'm a little happier about the Duron 1.8GHz/motherboard combo I purchased now for $60 on black Friday. :D As a bonus, it's a 1.5v core and came unlocked. With 2 pencil traces and a short wire, it's an 11.5x 333MHz FSB Duron which still performs great without the rest of the cache enabled and has headroom for overclocking.
The Celerons are really affected by the low speed memory (@ PC2100 on the test system) more than any other processors. Those processors would still lag in this review, the Celerons would have scaled better on other chipsets that allow better memory/FSB ratios. For example, PC3200 on single channel to match the bandwidth of the 400MHz FSB (SiS and VIA) or dual channel PC2100 (SiS648). Reply
FishTankX - Thursday, December 04, 2003 - link..Why does it say 'It is clear which *card* 'offers the better performance'?? Reply
Pandaren - Thursday, December 04, 2003 - linkIs anyone suprised at all by these test results? THG OC'ed a Celeron to 3 GHz a few months ago and even then, the Pentium 4 2.0A beat the pants off the Celeron.
Fact is that most consumers don't give a rats @ss if they will get half the FPS in a game they will never buy or play. For email, Microsoft Word, and AOHell, a 2.6 GHz Celeron will seem the same as a 1.6 GHz Duron to the average person.
I am sure that Compaq and other retail companies are well aware of the current Celeron's shortcomings. I am also sure that they will pay this article no heed and that they really don't care. The Celeron is mediocre enough.
What I'd like to see is Celeron M (Banias-512) based desktops in the budget segment. This 800 MHz wonder provides all the office firepower most people need, and probably doesn't even need a fan to keep it cool. Reply
Boonesmi - Thursday, December 04, 2003 - linkand whats is really pitiful is that the 1.6ghz duron is faster then the P4 1.8A in most tests
and the duron only costs $41 LOL Reply
Boonesmi - Thursday, December 04, 2003 - linkdang!!
mattsaccount - Thursday, December 04, 2003 - linkThe message is clear! Celerons are even worse than I thought... Reply


text:
Bystander Intervention, "neat": engaging bar staff in sexual violence prevention
Dear Engaged Bystander: Two seemingly unrelated facts about me: I am a huge fan of primary prevention. And I am a Yelp-er. I rely on the consumer-review website for guidance about the best tailor in my neighborhood to where I can unfailingly find delicious ravioli or patio dining.
So what do these things have to do with each other? I notice that while most reviewers (including myself) will praise an establishment or take it to task for the quality of the service or the price of the drinks, we rarely include "How safe do we feel there?" as an aspect of the service or atmosphere.
That's precisely where the primary prevention comes in.
Bars and lounges have historically been problematic spaces in the fight to prevent sexual violence. Expectations about alcohol are maddeningly intertwined with expectations about sex, and all of this takes place in the low-lit din of spots where the behavior of people who would look to hurt someone else might fly under the radar.
Bystander intervention at bars is not a new concept, but most often, it is directed toward encouraging individual patrons to protect potential victims: look out for your friends, come together and leave together, and don't let your friend leave with someone if they seem to be too intoxicated. Those are all excellent and sensible tips, and I think ones that can be effective.
But what if we could take it further? Rather than try to reach and skill-build with every potential reveler, what if we could make effective bystander intervention part of the atmosphere at a bar? For the past few years, that's what we at the Boston Area Rape Crisis Center have been trying to do, and I'd like to highlight some of the unique and innovative aspects of the project.
How we got started working with Bars
The bar trainings BARCC conducts across the city grew from our relationship with the Boston Police Department's (BPD) sexual assault unit, and from the BPD's relationship to the Liquor Licensing Board. The police department had identified a handful of "hot spots" in the city—areas with high concentrations of popular bars frequented by both large numbers of college students and tourists alike—and collaborated with the licensing board to call a meeting of bar owners and management in that area, to which we were invited.
A bar without a liquor license might as well be a vacant storefront, so linking the conversation about sexual violence to licensing was key to getting the attention of bar owners -- an audience that we might otherwise have a difficult time reaching. The police and licensing board were also able to address some legitimate concerns of the owners: in the past, bars who repeatedly called on the police risked being seen as "problem" establishments and therefore would jeopardize their license. The police and licensing board assured bar owners that the bars who did call the police to handle sexual violence-related matters would NOT jeopardize their license. Finally, the police and licensing board introduced BARCC staff and the training programs that we could offer to bar staff.


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Categories: Buying a Car, Credit, Money Matters
One of the most difficult financial decisions is determining when to use debt and when savings would be more appropriate. This is usually followed by deciding what type of debt is most appropriate for each lending situation. Deciding to go into debt and the type of debt that you will use are extremely important decisions that can impact your financial future for a long time.
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Categories: Auto Loans, Buying a Car, Finances
When you're in the market to buy a car, the process can feel a bit overwhelming. With so many vehicles and financing options available, it's important to get ahead of the game before you even start looking.
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Auto dealers and carmakers offer all sorts of special deals that seem to be very attractive. Whether it's a $3,000 rebate, zero-percent financing, or some other kind of incentive, the deals make the car of your dreams seem like a great buy. But do those incentives always give you the best deal?
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Although it's very exciting, shopping for a car can be a scary experience. Buying a used car is a great option but the buyer must beware. Follow these tips when shopping for your used car to be prepared and help avoid scams.
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It seems like every other commercial is for auto insurance, and while the ads may be clever, it's important to research each carrier before buying coverage. Here are some questions to keep in mind when choosing an auto insurance company.
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The car with the lowest price is always the least expensive car to buy, right?
Surprisingly, this isn't the case.
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Shopping for a new or used car can be very stressful. Fortunately, you can ease the pain by knowing what you need, what you want, and most importantly, how to get it without getting yourself into a mess...
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You have been waiting for this day for a very long time: it's time to buy a car. But where do you start? This is unfamiliar territory; you have never bought something so big before. Certainly, the big question is on your mind: "How am I going to pay for this?"
Trying to buy a car as a teenager can be difficult, but it's not impossible. Be prepared though, because the lack of credit history will be your largest barrier. A credit history is important because that's how lenders know you pay your bills.
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Shiksa T-shirt
The prefect gift for the non Jewish woman with lots of Jewish friends!
I guess if you have a Hanukkah bush, you can use these??? Uummm, I'll have to buy these for my sister. We don't think Hanukkah Harry puts presents under our invisible bush.Tags: Beautiful!, hanukkah, holiday decorating, judaism, jewish, judaica, interfaith, chrismukkah, deck itAdded 10 Years Ago from Crate and Barrel
Perfect for trimming the Chanukah bush or Chrismukkah tree!Tags: hanukkah, judaism, jewish, judaica, tree decorations, interfaith, holiday decorations, chanukah decorations, deck itAdded 11 Years Ago from Chosencouture
I hope that Seth Cohen is getting his due here. This is very fun and I can think of many people who would love to decorate their heads with a Yarmuclaus this December.


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Results 1 to 20 of 71
Zimmerman found not guilty for shooting Trayvon Martin
So, Amerikee friends, whats the general opinion on the whole situation? On the media involvement? Are there going to be riots?
Hmm to be honest I don't know if I like the way this has turned out, I mean there wasn't really much evidence either way was there...but yeah The black community is probably not going to like this and continue to think the system is racist.
Yeah. I think we are safe from widespread riots as most people forgot about the trial (yay for goldfish-esque attention spans), but it definitely won't do any good for the perception of the police as "Always putting down the black guy"
As for the media coverage: It pretty much disgusted me. Evidently Zimmerman was a White Supremecist who murdered a child in cold blood.
In reality: Of the coverage I watched, I was able to glean the following FACTS:
1. It REALLY shouldn't matter, but Zimmerman was half-hispanic (I believe Mexican?)
2. Zimmerman was an idiot with a history of violence
3. Martin was an idiot with a history of criminal activity
4. The neighborhood had recent break-ins
5. Zimmerman was patrolling on the lookout for burglars
6. Martin was a grown man, not the little smiling child that they kept showing in pictures (I think he was a football player?)
7. The police told Zimmerman to not approach and to disengage. He did not
8. Martin confronted Zimmerman for following him
9. SOMETHING happened, followed by a physical altercation in which someone pinned somebody and was "raining down blows". Based on the camera footage, it looks like Martin got the upperhand
10. Zimmerman shot and killed Martin
Then the news media got involved. Martin's family and their lawyers realized they could win this in the court of public opinion by playing up Zimmerman as the white supremacist gun nut and Martin as an 8-year old boy. Also, various news stations went forward with "anonymous tips" that Zimmerman had said MANY racist things in the past. And Zimmerman, for whatever reason, stayed out of the limelight and didn't really defend himself (one can argue he didn't want to get lynched).
Personally, from the moment I found out Martin was actually a fully grown teenager (funnily enough: Only Fox really gave that information. The CNN and MSNBC coverage tended to gloss over the fact that the picture of Martin was a few years old), I was fairly certain this was self-defense. We already had info that there was a confrontation of some form prior to the shooting, and the fact that the family's attorney felt the need to not show an up-to-date photo suggested "Big strong, could kick my ass without trying". Something happened, Zimmerman felt his life was in danger, he fired.
But what I wasn't sure on (and won't be until I review all the facts after the dust settles in a few months), was if it was LEGAL self-defense. Because as anyone who owns a firearm for self defense should realize: There are VERY specific requirements that must be met for a gun to be used in self-defense AND for said self-defense to be lethal.
Also: While I REALLY don't want to believe it, I got a strong vibe of Martin's family seeing an excuse to profit/be famous for this from the interviews and coverage.Steam: Gundato
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It's quite likely people are using it to profit. a la that one witness who has written a book on the events (some of which conflicts with his testimony in obscure ways).
The major problem with the 'stand your ground' defense case for Zimmerman is that this antiquated Florida law could go both ways. Is it only that Zimmerman was standing his ground and acted in self-defense, or did Trayvon Martin stand his ground with a man pursuing him for X reason?
Pursuing Martin and leading to the confrontation in that way is not enough to convict the man of 2nd degree murder, we just don't know what happened in between, because that could change the case. There is too much doubt as to what exactly happened, and that is tragic.
This case is racially charged from both sides, also something which should be recognized, from black and non-black Americans, neither group wanting 'their own' to be culpable. It's easier to just blame the other group for making the case more political.
Problem in this case has always been lack of evidence... sadly. Really tragic.
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It's obviously completely fucked that Zimmerman was deemed innocent... this seems to grant people immunity for certain kinds of murder.
"Forget it, Jake. It's Florida."
14-07-2013, 06:07 PM #9Itsbastiat, Dawngate
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Again, who was standing their ground in this case? Zimmerman who was allegedly attacked by Trayvon or Trayvon who was allegedly followed by Zimmerman? That's all that needs to be said to demonstrate how useless said law is. It's a whole chicken or the egg type of law... useless...
If either one had a legitimate reason to kill each other, why would there even be a case in the first place?
The primary issue is the lack of evidence. The law 'stand your ground' just proves useless in this case, and would be in any other case, because either way you still need to know the circumstances of what happened, and that's a lack of evidence issue.
If we knew for certain one person was assaulted and acted in self-defense, there's already a case to be made without such a law.
Again, the problem is with providing evidence to say whether or not the use of the firearm was justified. No law is going to provide that information. This law sounds more like it could protect perpetrators of homicide, especially when there is no witness to the event, than it could actually benefit justice...
Last edited by rockman29; 14-07-2013 at 06:28 PM.
There should always be a case when someone is killed by someone else, because it's not just good enough to take someone's word when they claim that it was in self defence. In practice, the prosecution is trying to prove that it was murder, but in reality with a robust self defence law as such in Florida, it's as much the defence proving that they were innocent. I'd be pretty damn pissed off if I got in a fight with someone because they, for example, smashed a light on my car, then was found guilty of murder because this person started beating me to a point where I feared for my life. Perhaps there'd be grounds for an assault charge, but in no way would me killing that person be anything other than self defence on my part. The law should, and in Florida does, reflect that. There's a world of difference between the two crimes, and either party can escalate it.Itsbastiat, Dawngate
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What does robust self-defense law mean? The wording sounds more like it could protect perpetrators of homicide, more than give victims of homicide justice.
I would not be ready to give benefit of the doubt to say this law is "robust," especially when I have rarely seen similar legislation in other Western countries who seem to do fine without it.
Stand-your-ground laws are frequently criticized and called "shoot first" laws by critics, including the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence.[30] In Florida, the law has resulted in self-defense claims tripling.[30][31] The law's critics argue that Florida's law makes it very difficult to prosecute cases against people who shoot others and then claim self-defense. The shooter can argue that he felt threatened, and in most cases, the only witness who could have argued otherwise is the victim who was shot and killed.[30] Before passage of the law, Miami police chief John F. Timoney called the law unnecessary and dangerous in that "[w]hether it's trick-or-treaters or kids playing in the yard of someone who doesn't want them there or some drunk guy stumbling into the wrong house, you're encouraging people to possibly use deadly physical force where it shouldn't be used."[32][33]
Last edited by rockman29; 14-07-2013 at 06:35 PM.
I don't see how it could protect people who commit murder. Quite frankly, it should protect some forms of homicide - specifically self defence. A fight that escalates and winds up with one person dead should be charged under assault or perhaps manslaughter, depending on whether it was the person who was winning, or was losing, that killed the other one. Regardless of whether you started an altercation or not, if you fear for your life you should not be convicted for taking the life of the person you feel is threatening yours. You should be charged with assaulting or antagonising the person who put you in that situation.
I do not feel that other Western countries do fine without it. There's no scope to protect you or yours in western Europe - if you kill someone, you will do time unless you have the money to buy your way out, or you can prove that it was an accident (and even then plenty of people do time for negligence). That's not "doing fine," there's no justice in that whatsoever.Itsbastiat, Dawngate
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And how do you determine a person was fearing for their life? And who will argue against that, if the only other person who experienced the event is dead?
That sounds like an awfully subjective description. To what degree does a person need to be threatened, to justify using lethal force? I don't think there is quite an answer to that.
What if you're an extremely fearful and anxious person? Anyone who barely crosses you can be legitimately killed by your hand? That sounds ridiculous, no?
How does anyone know Zimmerman didn't instigate the physical confrontation? Or shouldn't be responsible for the confrontation for another reason?
Now do you see why it has an unbalanced protection for the person who survived the altercation? Remember one thing: we don't have the testimony from Trayvon Martin, but we do have one from Zimmerman.
If the claims for self-defense increase 3x after the starting of this law, I think that is objective indication enough it has made the claim of self-defense more appealing to those who have used lethal force, legitimately or not.
The assumption behind using this "robust law" as a defense for Zimmerman already makes the assumption that Zimmerman in fact did act in self-defense. And this has not be proven.
More importantly, the fact that it wasn't proven, shows how useless the law is. IF it was proven he acted in self-defense, then Zimmerman would have been completely off the hook according to US justice.
However, it is clear that the justice system determined the lack of evidence primarily trumps the ridiculous stand your ground law. And I think the fact that Zimmerman pursued the individual against police advice, as well as making many peculiar remarks played a role in delivering the manslaughter verdict.
Last edited by rockman29; 14-07-2013 at 06:56 PM.
That's kind of stunning, I originally thought they upheld the manslaughter conviction.
That sounds like an awfully subjective description. To what degree does a person need to be threatened, to justify using lethal force? I don't think there is quite an answer to that.
What if you're an extremely fearful and anxious person? Anyone who barely crosses you can be legitimately killed by your hand? That sounds ridiculous, no?
How does anyone know Zimmerman didn't instigate the physical confrontation? Or shouldn't be responsible for the confrontation for another reason?
The fact we know: Some altercation occurred, Martin started beating the hell out of Zimmerman, Zimmerman shot Martin. There weren't enough defensive wounds on Martin to make Zimmerman look like the winner of the fistfight.
So let's look at the two extremes:
1. Zimmerman approaches Martin, demands he identifies himself, Martin beats the hell out of him. Zimmerman, fearing for his life, shoots Martin
2. Zimmerman approaches Martin, demands he identifies himself, they exchange heated words, Zimmerman shoves Martin, Martin beats the living hell out of him. Zimmerman, fearing for his life, shoots Martin.
In both of those cases, it is clear that it was escalated to a degree and, judging by Zimmerman seeming to have gotten the worse of the fighting, Martin probably took it too far. Did Zimmerman then take his self-defense too far? According to the courts, no.
If I flip someone off in traffic, that is not an open invitation to beat me half to death (or full to death). If you shove someone, that is not an invitation for them to knock all your teeth out. Contrary to what television has taught us, you can't trick someone into poking you and then beat them half to death in "self defense". There are many rules relating to how these situations can escalate and who violates the law as a result.
All a stand-your-ground law does is provide a bit of flexibility in terms of what counts as self-defense. In principle, it is to protect people from being prosecuted for not running away (which isn't always feasible, or safe). In practice, they need a lot of work and are heavily dependent on the investigative ability of the police, which might not be the best approach.
Personally. I am a firm believer in the castle doctrine (basically: if someone invades your home, you can kill them) but feel that stand your ground laws need to be VERY carefully defined, but should also exist so as to provide a measure of protection. Of course, I am also against concealed carry permits (allowing people to carry loaded weapons on their person).Steam: Gundato
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What testimonies did the folks from forensics and the doctors give?
15-07-2013, 02:11 PM #20Personally. I am a firm believer in the castle doctrine (basically: if someone invades your home, you can kill them)
I would disagree with this completely, I would say this is the worst thing you can do! One of the things people were worrying about in this country when they were thinking of bringing laws that allowed you to use force, and I believe them when they say this. They were saying that if your allowed to use force and maybe even kill them burgalers will basically shoot first without a doubt. Meaning you go from a crime that is basically just stealing items and items are really not that valuable you can get them back and maybe fearing for a little while. To having you or some of your family murdered...


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Angel Pagan CF
Luis Castillo 2B
David Wright 3B
Jeff Francoeur RF
Fernando Tatis 1B
Nick Evans LF
Omir Santos C
Wilson Valdez SS
Nelson Figueroa (2-4, 4.74 ERA) P
The Mets try to continue their dominance against Phillies starter Cole Hamels, who is 0-1 with a 7.20 ERA in two starts against the Mets this season. Hamels' opponent, Figueroa, tries to forget about his last outing agains the Cubs when he allowed four runs. It's Figgy's first-ever start against the team he once played for in 2001.
Carlos Beltran is conspicuously out of the lineup after getting the day off yesterday. Jerry Manuel previously had said he would use Beltran for a couple of days and then give him a day off, but he didn't mention anything about two days in a row.
After having won their first series since July against the Cubs, the Mets got swept by the Marlins at home. Just when you think they might have a nice little run, they not only get swept but they lose by nine runs.


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"I guess you have to go back to youth soccer. We won a few State Cups with the [La Jolla] Nomads." -- Frankie Hejduk, 34, who scored Columbus' third goal in its 3-1 MLS
Cup win over the New York Red Bulls, upon being asked to recall his previous club titles. Hejduk has played nine years of MLS ball, spent four years in the German Bundesliga, one year in the Swiss
league, and he played three seasons at UCLA. (San Diego Union-Tribune) ...More


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UF football spring game April 6
Published: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 at 1:48 p.m.
Last Modified: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 at 1:48 p.m.
Florida will hold its annual spring football game April 6 in The Swamp, the school announced Tuesday. The game traditionally has a 1 p.m. kickoff.
The Gators are expected to start spring drills around March 12. UF will have 15 practices, including the spring game. UF will release further details about spring practice in the coming weeks.
Reader comments posted to this article may be published in our print edition. All rights reserved. This copyrighted material may not be re-published without permission. Links are encouraged.


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News from Briarcliff High School….
The Empire State School Press Association (ESSPA) has awarded Briarcliff High School's Briars & Ivy literary magazine top awards in several categories.
In addition to several individuals being recognized for their journalism and artistic work, the magazine won a Silver Award for Best All-Around Literary Magazine. Sophomore David Kaminsky and alumni Samm Kim and Sophie Phillips received Gold Awards for art; junior Jessica Daneshvar won a Silver Award for her cover design; junior Laura Birnbaum and alumnus Mana Takayama won Silver Awards for layout; and Sophie Phillips won a Bronze Award for her oil painting.
Briarcliff High School English teachers Karen McCarthy and Jeremy Shulman, co-advisors of Briars & Ivy, are proud of their student's achievements. "These awards speak to the hard work and dedication of the Briars & Ivy staff and their commitment to presenting the best artistic talents of the Briarcliff High School student body," said Ms. McCarthy.
ESSPA provides education, resources and recognition to aspiring high school journalists in the state. ESSPA award winners are announced at the state conference held each fall at Syracuse University.


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Shelby County
The Shelby County Health Department provides clinical, environmental, and home health services to the general public.
Certified birth, death, marriage, and divorce certificates for a vital event which occurred within the State of Alabama are available upon request for a fee.
2015 Annual Report
The Shelby County Health Department provided more than 3,500 immunizations in 2015. For details on this and other public health accomplishments and initiatives, see the 2015 Shelby County Health Department Annual Report.
Customer Satisfaction Survey
The Alabama Department of Public Health is asking patients of our county health departments to complete a customer satisfaction survey. ADPH cares about what you think of the services we provide. We value your feedback and look forward to receiving your ratings and comments.
Hours of Operation
Clinic Hours: 7:30 a.m. to 5:00 p.m., Monday through Friday
Home Health Hours: 8:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m., Monday through Friday
Staff is on-call seven days a week, 24 hours a day. To contact the Shelby County Health Department, contact us.
Page last updated: June 27, 2017


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Topic: SENSITIVE: What You May Expect
SENSITIVE: Dear Shar, has your ONC called in Hospice yet? Hospice does not have to mean the end but they are wonderful for Home Care and they will ease your way on this journey. They also have a booklet on what to expect when, that I found very helpful with Teddy. He really followed it pretty closely. He started sleeping more, eating less, and about 10 days prior to the end he started 'picking' at his clothes and sheets. This is some kind of preparation they go through. It is NOT all that scary, honestly. I used that time to be nearer to him in every way and when the end came it was something I had never witnessed in my life. I have never been afraid of dying and it even convinced me more so. My daughter was right with me and Teddy's last day was awesome! Robin kept saying, "Mom do you know how privileged we are to be a part of this". Some privilege, I know, but you would have had to be a part of it. Teddy sadly was in a lot of pain for about 4 hours but as his body started to close down the pain slowly left. He laid there for hours with his eyes wide open but never blinked. They DO know what is going on and they DO hear. I told him several times it was OK to go to his peace and that I loved him. Each time he put his fingers in his ears. He was NOT ready. He was waiting for something. As the pain started to decline he began "greeting" others from beyond! He would hold out his arms, encircle them with a big Teddy bear hug and even smooched his lips to kiss them. This went on for about 3 hours! There are no words to describe the calm and beauty of those 3 hours. I cry now as I think about it, not tears of losing him but tears at the awesomeness of it all. After his meet and greet was over the chest rale started which is the heart shutting down. If you are not prepared it is a rather disturbing noise and loud. I understand now there is a patch for it which we did not have. Robin got upset but I explained that he is not feeling any pain, it just sounds bad. There was only the 2 of us here as 2 teen Grandsons were home. When the rale started Robin called the boys and told them Papa was passing but they did not have to come. With in 15 mintues they walked in. Robin said, "Papa. Kyle and Brandon are here". 3 minutes later he passed. That is what he was waiting for. I feel he didn't want Robin and I to be alone and she felt it was one last life lesson that he was teaching the boys. Sorry to be graphic but to me this is a good graphic. Hang in, be strong and do not be afraid! I hope this helps. And I hope she stays very comfortable.


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Little Red Riding Hood Marjan van Zeyl
In Little Red Riding Hood, Patricia DeLisa's talents and life experiences are wonderfully evident in the sense of whimsy, beauty, and delight found in each of her drawings. They celebrate the riches of childhood; that precious time when life is filled with magic and adventure.
This is a beautifully illustrated book that will have you looking at it over and over. There is one illustration of the wolf about to gobble up Red Riding Hood that is not for the very tender child. Generally, this book is for a child of 5 or older.
There is a "Commentary for the Thoughtful Parent" by Andrew Flaxman that speaks about the history and purpose of Fairy Tales.
Hardcover, 28 pgs. 8 3/4 x 11 1/4 inches.