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ATI's Radeon X800 XL 512MB - A toe in the 512MB poolby Anand Lal Shimpi on 5/4/2005 9:27 AM EST
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- GPUs
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Rawz - Thursday, May 19, 2005 - linkOne game that could benefit from a 512 MB VRAM board is Everquest II. Currently, it is stated that no system setup avail. today can run the game, playble, with all its settings at maximum.
I know mine can't(P4 2.8HT, 1GB PC3200 2.5 Corsair, Abit AI7 and MSI Radeon 9800Pro 128 - R360). No OC there.
Could you set a test with that game? (There is a free trial for it, as it is a MMORPG ) Reply
melgross - Sunday, May 08, 2005 - linkSon of a N00b, none of these game cards work well as workstation cards.
The $500 workstation cards from both ATI and Nvidia are two to three times fast with most operations than the equiv. price game cards.
But they are much slower playing games. Reply
Murst - Sunday, May 08, 2005 - linkReading these posts was kinda funny.
First of all, ATI wouldn't market a card just to test it. If ATI wants to test something, they can either evaluate it on a theoretical basis, or just develop several cards for their own use.
There is a possibility that longhorn could take advantage of 512 MBs of vram. Especially with dual core processors coming out, multi tasking *may* compeletely change. Get 2 monitors, play two games on the same computer at the same time. Of course, GPUs will still need to advance more before playing 2 graphically intense games is possible on the same computer with a single graphics card (dual gpu maybe? =p ). Well, with that said, although longhorn may need 512 MBs, this card will certainly not be able to handle it.
However, I bet this card will sell great. When some kid's mom will go to a store to buy the brat a brand new graphics card, she doesn't know what to pick. 9800, 6800, 5900, 6600, X800... that means absolutly nothing to MOST buyers. However, they see on the box that one card has 256MBs and another card has 512MBs. I'm sure most people will assume that more memory is better performance (hell, generally that is the case). So they'll buy this card, because that is the ONLY thing on a graphics card box that the general public can understand. Its a great tactic by ATI, and it will make them money. Its all about the labels on the box. 99.99% of the population has never seen or heard of benchmarks. Reply
Son of a N00b - Saturday, May 07, 2005 - linkwhich there is, so there will be plenty of ppl that buy this card. Reply
xsilver - Friday, May 06, 2005 - linkif there are people that buy the 9550 256mb and fx5500 256mb over a 9800pro/6600gt 128mb there will be people that buy this card Reply
Myrandex - Thursday, May 05, 2005 - linkThis makes sense from a manufacturing and business aspect. X800XLs are cheaper and easier to produce than X850XT's, and of course someone will buy the card. I don't know why y'all don't get on nvidia's case more for the FX5200 having 256MB in some cases (and derivatives of it, like the 5500). That is wayyyy more rediculous than 512MB on an X800XL. Heck about the only thing 3D that the 5200 card is made for running an OpenGL screensaver :P Reply
Peanya - Thursday, May 05, 2005 - linkI do see a reason for this card, although I'd have to test it. I believe it's designed for specific games such as some popular on-line games like SWG and EQ. For the average gamer, this won't benefit at all. Oh well, I'm still happy with my 6800GT and my AMD64. I've never been a fan of ATI's drivers. Reply
PrinceXizor - Thursday, May 05, 2005 - linkAlso, oodles of VRAM is useful for multi-monitor use. Some testing scenarios that involve that would be much appreciated too.
Workstation performance (Alibre Design is a MCAD package that is DirectX based not OpenGL optimized), multi-monitor support, multi-tasking video operations, Longhorn.
Mostly though, I would like to see some multi-monitor and gaming benchmarks as these are the most likely to see performance gains. Just my $.02
P-X Reply
Son of a N00b - Thursday, May 05, 2005 - linkany benchmarks of these cards from a workstation standpoint? If ati was that dull enough to release a 512 X800 why not accidently release a card that can preform okay in workstation progs, without the hefty price of a worksation card? Hmm (especially with the nvidia cards, isnt the 6800ultra 512 the same as a quadro on the hardware end?) a soft mod BIOS flash could prove to be interesting?
what do you think Anand? Reply
civilgeek - Thursday, May 05, 2005 - linkThis review tested games that are explicitly made for this round of 256 meg cards. Try games that our made for future cards... like several of the MMOs. For example EQII would be a prime example as I have not heard of a single machine being able to run the game on extreme settings with reasonable frame rates, even with 2 6800 gt cards in SLI. You need textures that are beyond todays round of games. Reply
civilgeek - Thursday, May 05, 2005 - linkReply
aliasfox - Thursday, May 05, 2005 - linkActually, g33k, because nVidia's gotten lazy on the driver side of things, the X800XT is just as fast as the 6800 Ultra DDL in most instances, if not a little faster.
I'd love to see nVidia put as much effort into its Mac OpenGL drivers as it does in its Windows OpenGL drivers... or, conversely, ATi should work as hard on its Windows OpenGL drivers as it does on the Mac. Reply
nserra - Thursday, May 05, 2005 - link512MB card is pointless I agree, but about the DOOM3 ULTRA mode require 512Mb of GPU memory, well maybe it's correct. Only if you have an nvidia card!
Ati cards use much less GPU memory for the textures and for AA and AF modes.
See "past" bench's of nvidia 5x00 256MB vs ATI 9x00 256MB, while there was some performance decrease on the nvidia cards on games (max details settings) when going from 256MB to 128MB with the Ati there was no difference.
(Or performance increase if you do the opposite calculations [128 to 256]) Reply
ET - Thursday, May 05, 2005 - linkBTW, I agree that most evidence seems to point to ExtremeTech having made some mistake, but I love to verify things. Reply
ET - Thursday, May 05, 2005 - linkYes, Anand, if you could do a 2GB test in both High and Ultra modes, I'd love to see it. Thanks! Reply
geekfool - Thursday, May 05, 2005 - linkOf course if this article benchmarked something that actually needed this memory, say Celestia (http://shatters.net/celestia/) /w a 64k texture set of Earth, the 512m of ram might have made a difference. Reply
flatblastard - Thursday, May 05, 2005 - linkAnd I'll get more use out of mine over a longer period of time. Ahhhh, I feel better now... Reply
g33k - Thursday, May 05, 2005 - link"1) ATI is better at OpenGL than Nvidia"
I know its been posted before, but you have this statement completely @ss backwards. Nvidia EXCELS at OPENGL. ATI tends to do better at DirectX games.
So if you follow your logic about the Apple platform(which admittedly I know nothing about), the 6800 Ultra would be the best card for the Mac. Reply
flatblastard - Thursday, May 05, 2005 - linkNow at least when someone tries to make me feel bad for "wasting" my money on an x850xt pe, I will have someone else to point the finger at.
Yes, I'm talking to you, whoever read this review and still plans on buying one of these 512MB cards! lol...
You know, I just realized.....with this new x800xl 512mb in the line-up, my x850xt pe starts to look like it was a good decision on my part.....I don't feel so cheated anymore. ;) Reply
Ged - Wednesday, May 04, 2005 - link"However, I disagree with your second post. If it were that simple, why do rendered games need so much RAM? I am pretty sure there are other things stored in video RAM when rendering the OS in 3D including textures. I think the days of the VRAM being used as JUST a frame buffer in the OS are numbered."
It's true that you won't just need to store 'what the screen looks like' in VRAM; however, I cannot see how a clean desktop, which OSX is supposed to have, takes up 256MB or 512MB of VRAM.
Another way to look at the 20 frames at 2560x1600x24bbp is that you could store that many textures at that resolution as well. That should be overkill for a desktop (consider that all the windows are textured they'd probably use the same texture and other objects on the desktop would probably also use the same textures).
Take the best most complex 3D game with many textures on possibly hundreds of objects right now: They don't require over 256MB of VRAM and Apple's sleek, efficient Desktop will?
Plus, with NVIDIA and ATI both using System Memory via PCIe, you don't need as much VRAM for a 2D/3D desktop because the cards could use System RAM (assuming Apple goes to PCIe at some point).
"Graphics Cards for Apple OSX needing 256MB+ or 512MB of VRAM to display the OS well."
I guess I will sum it all up by saying: "I'll believe it when I see it" :) Reply
aliasfox - Wednesday, May 04, 2005 - linkThe x800xl is not the best card on the Mac side... the 6800 Ultra DDL and x800XT have been available for some time, both with DDL support for the 30" display.
Of course, I'm just waiting for someone to hook a massive SLI system up to a 30" and actually *play* a modern game at 2560x1600... that would surely be a sight to see... Reply
Cuser - Wednesday, May 04, 2005 - linkGED: I gree with you on the OpenGL thing. I thought nvidia was in the lead with OpenGL support. My old ATI would not play in OpenGL at all!
However, I disagree with your second post. If it were that simple, why do rendered games need so much RAM? I am pretty sure there are other things stored in video RAM when rendering the OS in 3D including textures. I think the days of the VRAM being used as JUST a frame buffer in the OS are numbered. Reply
Ged - Wednesday, May 04, 2005 - link"2) On a MACINTOSH with Tiger, extra VRAM is a very good thing for the future, considering how the Quartz 2D Extreme will work (utilizing the GPU for OS rendering, caching it in VRAM)"
You shouldn't need close to 512MB of VRAM for displaying OSX's 'Quartz 2D Extreme'.
Consider that Apple's largest display is 2560x1600 pixels (4096000 pixels total) x 24 bpp (I'm assuming 24bpp) = 98,304,000 bits for a frame (12,288,000 bytes for a frame).
Even if you had 20 full screen frames which you composited together for the full effect it would only take 245,760,000 bytes which is still within the 256MB on current generations of cards (using 32bpp it's still under 256MB at 19 complete frames).
I seriously doubt that anything Quartz would do would need that much VRAM. If Quartz does need that much VRAM, I think something is really, really wrong.
Someone please correct my math if I'm off, but something's wrong if you need 512MB to display 2D OS graphics. Reply
Ged - Wednesday, May 04, 2005 - link"1) ATI is better at OpenGL than Nvidia"
Everything I have read and all the benchmarks I have seen are oposite of this claim.
What am I missing? Reply
racolvin - Wednesday, May 04, 2005 - linkAnand:
Two things to remember about these cards:
1) ATI is better at OpenGL than Nvidia
2) On a MACINTOSH with Tiger, extra VRAM is a very good thing for the future, considering how the Quartz 2D Extreme will work (utilizing the GPU for OS rendering, caching it in VRAM)
Everything on the Mac is OpenGL, so ATI testing the waters with this part is not surprising when I think of it in the Mac-future context. The X800XL would still be the best card available for the Mac folks should it make it to that side of the fence ;)
R Reply
StrangerGuy - Wednesday, May 04, 2005 - linkYet another pointless release from ATI, or Nvidia if it matter with their respective 512MB cards.
BTW I saw an advertisement on a 512MB X300SE by ECS via a link from AT forums. Anyone has a 486 with 512MB yet? Reply
Cuser - Wednesday, May 04, 2005 - linkBersl2: I sympathize with where you are coming from. However there are 2 things that you are not considering.
First, Microsoft controls the operating system, so, it would stand to reason they control (if not have a large influence on) the ways and methods the developers, programmers, and hardware alike interact with that system(and vise versa).
Secondly, DirectX api is developed in collaboration with the graphics industry (or at least so I am led to believe).
I think the real reason to get upset by this is if microsoft abuses this power (do they?).
Furthermore, I myself would like to see more titles using OpenGL, if not to promote diversity and not be dependant on only one API.
I am not a developer, but it seems that more and more games are only using DirectX API because Microsoft pushes it (i.e...easier to get information, training, SDK's, and is advertised everywhere.)
OpenGL is an open standard and does not seem to have that type of support. But, this is just my observation so far. Maybe someone in the industry could shed some light on this... Reply
bersl2 - Wednesday, May 04, 2005 - linkCuser: Your assertion I agree with, if not your reasoning.
Think about this: *Why* should Microsoft be the one controlling the API? The games they've "made" have (almost?) all been bought from somebody else. They don't make hardware either. Why is everybody being led around on a leash by the middleman?
It's frustrating when there's very little reason (and if there is a halfway decent reason, I'd like to hear about it---and don't give me that "ease of use" crap; any competent programmer can use either API rather well) not to use OpenGL over Direct3D, other than the "Nobody ever got fired for choosing Microsoft" mentality. Reply
aliasfox - Wednesday, May 04, 2005 - linkI'm sure Aero Glass in all it's glory will want more than 64 MB VRAM. Given that a) it's Microsoft (not known for its sleek software) and b) that it's still a year away.
My reasoning? Mac OSX (don't shoot me). OSX's Aqua interface is also 3D in the absolute barest sense of the word, and the rendering engine uses the GPU for textures and such (my understanding, at least). Features such as Exposé on Panther (which has been out for ~18 months) are much, much happier in 64 MB RAM than in 32.
In addition, some of Apple's new features in Tiger need a GPU with DX9 features. I have a feeling Microsoft will do the same thing with Longhorn. But perhaps no more than 128 MB VRAM, I would hope. Reply
fishbits - Wednesday, May 04, 2005 - linkLOL, guess we'll have to wait and see what the real reasoning for designing the card was, and how good a buy it will be (and for whom and when). Anand nailed it when he said it was a raw deal for most of us as things stand now. Reply
Cuser - Wednesday, May 04, 2005 - linkOh, and I enjoyed the Mildred story:) Reply
Cuser - Wednesday, May 04, 2005 - linkfishbits: First of all, I am not saying that gamers should go out and buy this card. I am just giving a possible reason to why these high memory cards are even being produced today. With all of the readers asking how 'stupid can ATI be...', I am pretty sure a company that large does not produce hardware haphazardly. There has to be a good reason, and as we can see, it is neither because it offers better game performance (as it purports to), or because gamers are begging for it.
Secondly, the bells and whistles interface (aero glass) is a new 3D interface OPTION. Which means it is not necessary to use while running the OS. There is an option to use the classic XP style interface (which will soon become obsolete). And, if history is any indication, everyone will downplay the need for the pretty interface because of how much resources it uses. Then, as the hardware supporting it becomes more standard, everyone will eventually fall into line (remember when there was such a large opposition to XP's MAC'esqe look...where is that opposition now?).
Last, if ATI has such a terrible time with hardware delivery, these cards should be available in large quantities when the Longhorn Beta (available with all the bells and whistles) becomes available.
Plus, if reports are correct about the Aero Glass needing alot of video memory, how whould MS be able to show off preview copies without available hardware? Reply
fishbits - Wednesday, May 04, 2005 - linkoverclockingoodness: Working on the new "Top Insider Story?" Reply
OrSin - Wednesday, May 04, 2005 - linkCuser even if MS new OS needs greated memory it will not more Video memory. Its new interface is 3d in barest since of the word. Any decent even 64 MB card will run it fine. Even if MS OS did need more video memory the OS is 1 year or more away. This card will be so old news no one will care.
if any one buys 450 video to future proof thier OS, then I anti-gravity unit to sell them for thier car, so when roads are gone and we fly through the sky. Reply
overclockingoodness - Wednesday, May 04, 2005 - linkWhy do I get the feeling that Anand has fired half of his staff? Now it seems like majority of the major reviews are handled by Anand. It's not necessairly a bad thing, but it just makes me wonder that AnandTech started churning 7 reviews a week when he was in college or getting married, but now we see far less reviews and majority of them are from either Anand, Wesley or Kristopher. Where has the rest of the staff disappeared? ;) Reply
fishbits - Wednesday, May 04, 2005 - linkCuser: I doubt that MS is going to release an OS in a year or so that requires a 512MB vid card to decently enjoy its UI. "Yes Mildred, the new Windows is great! You just need to open up your Dell, buy a new PCIe motherboard and swap that out, and a $400+ video card and install that too. Let's see, if you do all this yourself with the OS upgrade, we're looking at $600+ for you to still be able to get the e-mails from the kids that you always did."
Many gamers even don't have the tip-top of the line to enjoy the many games they love (and will love in the future). We'd love to, but the cost is hard to justify. How then to convince folks to hand out this kind of money just for the new OS's UI? Ain't gonna happen. Few would do it, and MS surely isn't dumb enough to miss out on that many sales. We can chastise them about bloat and hardware reqs vs performance, but they're not THAT bad. Reply
KristopherKubicki - Wednesday, May 04, 2005 - linkYou can actually buy the NVIDIA 512MB cards *right now*. I guess we now know why they didn't make a big deal of their launch :)
Kristopher Reply
deathwalker - Wednesday, May 04, 2005 - linkWhat a complete and utter waste of time this card is. Another effort (usless) by ATI to climb back to the top after letting Nvidia take over with there 6800 line of graphics cards...oh how I long for the days when my 9700 pro was a thing of envy. But, alas ATI shot themselves in the foot and lost customers (me included) back to nvidia when they could not answer the bell for the 10th round. Reply
Cuser - Wednesday, May 04, 2005 - linkI just re-read my article and I might have seemed like I was 'blaiming' microsoft for this.
On the contrary, I just wanted to bring to light what a large influence microsoft is on the new standards of graphics hardware. DirectX, no matter how much it was chastised before, has become the foundation to the design of video harware. Video card makers today make cards to take advantage of the directX api...nothing more, nothing less. OpenGL seems to be fading quickly in consumer games (not as much in the professional market, however).
To this end, with the new design of the WGF, windows and application's video RAM usage may begin to rival the video games we play. Reply
Cuser - Wednesday, May 04, 2005 - linkIMHO
I think everyone is overlooking the real reason why this much memory will soon be necessary: microsoft.
From the articles I have been reading about longhorn and it's new graphics API, I think the desire for card companies to push towards higher video memory is not because of any games now or in the near future, but to prepare for Longhorn's need for video RAM.
With OS managed video RAM and allotted GPU time, videocards with less than 512mb of RAM will not be able to give you all your OS interface has to offer.
P.S.- This is my first post, be gentle... Reply
Fricardo - Wednesday, May 04, 2005 - link*terrible idea* Reply
Fricardo - Wednesday, May 04, 2005 - linkI knew that card was a terrible as soon as I read the title. How could ATI be so retarded? Doesn't even make sense... Reply
Patman2099 - Wednesday, May 04, 2005 - linkI could be mistaken, but isnt the Default FSAA on cards now using Multi sampling or mix of multi and super sampling?
Perhaps ATI intends to bring back pure Super Sampling?
mbhame - Wednesday, May 04, 2005 - linkAnand,
There are more sites supporting your findings than contradicting your findings (ExtremeTech) - which wouldn't be a first for ExtremeTech.
Your final comment in Post #21 couldn't have made me any happier - I'm tired of arguing with people who think slapping tons of RAM on anything dictates tons more performance, etc.
Could you let us know how much is local and how much is shared system RAM in the recently-announced 512MB 6200's?
Hey, when are you going to reply to my email? :P
Cygni - Wednesday, May 04, 2005 - linkThe card companies pushed 64meg cards when 32meg cards werent even close to maxed out. Then 128 when 64 was perfectly find. Then 256. Then 512. Its what they do, and the consumers have SHOWED the board makers again and again that they will pay out the nose for that extra RAM just to be "future proof", regardless of actual performance. They arent evil, but they have learned what sells. A 64meg card is JUST NOW becoming "needed" in most games.
The two monitors i have in my house, Sony 200sx's (about 5 of em, all from around 1996 :D ) and early release 17in flatpanels (Dell and Mitsu) both are most useable at 1024x768, so i never even touch reso's higher than that in any games. Its not worth it to me. Personally, the gaganess for high reso, high AA, high AF gaming confuses me... especially at the increadible cost in both FPS and dollars to run that high. The visual difference is less noticeable than simple environ bump maps to me. Reply
fishbits - Wednesday, May 04, 2005 - linkWon't someone think of the poor starving gamers that don't have 256MB DDR3, much less an extra thus far-useless, overpriced 256MB of DDR3?
Perhaps it could come in handy though in MOGs, where you're going back and forth through different zones and coming across the same characters multiple times, and it isn't as clearly defined as loading the next FPS level/map. "Hey, Jerx0r the Brave is still in video memory, don't have to reload him!" Of course it may not be a big hit if its already in system RAM, but with high-end systems running 1GB + 256MB, it's a decent bump up in total RAM. Reply
AlexWade - Wednesday, May 04, 2005 - linkSomeone will buy it. Someone with deep pockets. If you are thinking about buying this card, can you give me some of your extra money? Reply
Anand Lal Shimpi - Wednesday, May 04, 2005 - linkET
I meant that it's not related to video memory size. If it were system memory related then it would affect both cards equally, but the test is cached and I noticed no disk related slowdowns during the benchmarking. If you really want I'll run it with 2GB of memory though, just ask and I shall do :)
Take care,
Anand Reply
ET - Wednesday, May 04, 2005 - linkThanks for the comment, Anand. Why do you say "it's not related to memory size". Do you get the same scores with 2GB of RAM? Reply
Anand Lal Shimpi - Wednesday, May 04, 2005 - linkFor those wondering, I also ran tests under Doom 3 at 1600x1200 with 4X AA (8X AF) on the High Quality setting. The performance between the two cards is as follows:
512MB - 31.0 fps
256MB - 31.0 fps
This agrees with the High vs. Ultra performance numbers we saw in our first Doom 3 GPU review [http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2146...].
There's no magic increase in performance if you back down to the High quality setting, so if you're seeing numbers contrary to what I've shown here something fishy is going on and it's not related to memory size.
For those of you wondering why Doom 3's Ultra Quality mode doesn't require a 512MB video card, keep in mind that the test we're running here is reporting average frame rates. Doom 3's timedemo function doesn't output minimum frame rates, but through actual game play the 512MB card is a bit smoother with the Ultra quality settings enabled (only in Doom 3 however). The difference isn't huge in the scenarios we tested.
I have no doubt that 512MB boards will make sense sometime down the road, but not paired up with this GPU.
Take care,
Anand Reply
WT - Wednesday, May 04, 2005 - link#17,
*drool* I'll one up you here and get a second 1GB 5200, run them in SLI, then I'll have 2GB of GPU bandwidth !!!
That would kick, ermmm, no .. waitaminute ...
MuhahahaAaAHAHAA !!!
*sarcasm sensors malfunctioning* Reply
fishbits - Wednesday, May 04, 2005 - linkMaybe the sole purpose of the card is to get some honest benches under Doom 3 where ATI ties/beats a comparably-priced offering from Nvidia, and get as much PR out of it as possible. Sounds like there's a lot to sort out, but maybe this does happen under some tests in uncompressed mode.
Anyway, the purpose wouldn't be to sell the particular card, as to squelch the "OMG, Nvidia pwns in Doom3!" so that those who buy a card based on one game/anecdote won't shy away from current ATI products. Fanboys for either company are a steady source of revenue, so it won't do to miss out on a new (vid chip/FPS) generation of them.
Lot of speculation on my part, but the product is definitely befuddling otherwise. Reply
Phantronius - Wednesday, May 04, 2005 - linkAhhh silly silly ATI, when will you learn, in Soviet Russia, GPU memory RAMS you!! Reply
Sunbird - Wednesday, May 04, 2005 - linkI'm wondering when the fx 5200 with 1GB memory (64bit memory interface of course) is coming out :p Reply
ET - Wednesday, May 04, 2005 - linkMore data points: Beyond3D got the same results as Anandtech; DriverHeaven got an increase in speed, but only because its 256MB speed was much lower than the rest. Reply
ET - Wednesday, May 04, 2005 - link#13, don't judge the waste of money on Doom3 results. There's obviously something fishy here. Reply
ET - Wednesday, May 04, 2005 - linkRight, #11. Shows I should read more carefully. That's really strange. T-Break also got the same results as Anandtech. Perhaps Carmack made a mistake and the modes are mislabeled? I mean, it's not as if he could test them. :) Reply
bob661 - Wednesday, May 04, 2005 - linkI'm really surprised at these 512MB results. I thought at least the Doom 3 benchmarks would be better. This is just a waste of money. Reply
CrystalBay - Wednesday, May 04, 2005 - linkI think nVidia's recently launched 6200/512MB is even a more peculiar release. Reply
mbhame - Wednesday, May 04, 2005 - linkGuys, Extremetech said they *originally* tried Ultra but the graph is based on High Quality mode.
...which further confuses things here. :( Reply
Houdani - Wednesday, May 04, 2005 - linkATI has earned your contempt, and deservedly so. Thank you yet again for giving the hardware suits a potent dose of reality.
Clearly the games reviewed today are optimized to run on cards with less than 256MB, thereby making the 512MB superfluous. However, the folks above point out that Carmack had other notions in mind -- something which ExtremeTech appears to corroborate. If nothing else, it bears some investigation in order to understand where the difference lies. Reply
LoneWolf15 - Wednesday, May 04, 2005 - linkOriginally, Doom 3's recommendation for Ultra High quality mode was a system with a gig of RAM and a 512MB video card so all textures could fit within VRAM. At the time, a 512MB card didn't exist, and 256MB cards were still uber-high technology (Geforce 6800Ultra and Radeon X800XT-PE).
I can't think of another game however, where 512MB of graphics RAM is needed, much as articles say "Soon we will". Heck, many people just went from 128MB to 256MB, and smart game developers are going to keep their games at a level where as many systems as possible can run them (which IMO means a Geforce 6600 with 128MB of RAM, or the equivalent). Unless you're running all your games at 1600x1200 (I'm running mostly at 1280x1024 still as I get better monitor refresh rates), I don't see 512MB as being necessary for some time, and even a 128/256MB card will handle most games at that resolution given a fast enough GPU. Reply
mbhame - Wednesday, May 04, 2005 - link#7: Interesting. I hadn't heard Doom III could use so much System RAM. I don't have a rig capable of touching such resolution, etc. so I couldn't verify personally.
I'm gonna check out their article. Reply
ET - Wednesday, May 04, 2005 - linkI don't know. I'm just looking at ExtremeTech's preview of the card, and they get 32FPS for Ultra High mode (with 4xAA and 8xAF) with the 256MB card and 49.3 with the 512MB one. This is opposed to 28.8 and 29.1 for the same at Anandtech.
The systems the two used are a bit different, with the Anandtech system having a faster CPU but only 1GB vs. 2GB for the ExtremeTech system. It may be that in this mode Doom3 is so memory hungry that 1GB isn't enough?
mbhame - Wednesday, May 04, 2005 - link#5: That *is* what Ultra mode does. Ultra mode *is* purely-uncompressed textures and id themselves, if not Carmack himself, claimed you'd need 512MB VRAM to run it all w/o swapping. And that is what was benched in Page 3 of the article.
I truly hope I'm misunderstanding or overlooking something. Reply
ET - Wednesday, May 04, 2005 - linkRe #2: yeah, wasn't Doom3 supposed to have a mode that has all textures uncompressed and requires 512MB? Reply
Speedo - Wednesday, May 04, 2005 - linkI see no reason to pay extra to get 512MB. #3, I don't think there's even much improvement from 128->256MB. Reply
mongoosesRawesome - Wednesday, May 04, 2005 - linkThe amount of memory on a card is the most advertised and consequently the most important feature to uninformed consumers. Does 256 MB (vs. 128MB) of memory even matter in resolutions below 1600x1200?
Just as with CPU's (clock speed), people want a single measure to judge one GPU against another. Reply
mbhame - Wednesday, May 04, 2005 - linkMay I ask why nobody is calling out Carmack on his claims of Ultra *needing* >256MB VRAM when this X800XL 512MB doesn't hardly outperform its 256MB brethren in 1600x1200 Ultra w/4xAA?!?!
There is something else afoot - elsewise id's claims are utterly absurd!
So which is it??? Reply
erinlegault - Wednesday, May 04, 2005 - linkATI needs to start acting like the lower cost alternative to Nvidia again. Why would you put 512MB on a 800XL and pay $150 more for no noticable benefit? At least a 512MB X850 XT PE would show more improvement, but they would probably charge $999 for it. Reply


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Sunday, February 17, 2013 from 12:00 PM to 4:00 PM (PST)
Event Details
The Tustin Library will welcome Year of Snake with a family festival event featuring live entertainment, arts exhibition, student art contest award, food truck, hands-on crafts, lucky money envelopes, a variety of merchandise booths, and family activities.
The Tustin Library has partnered with Joy of Kung Fu, Chinese Daily to host the Lunar New Year celebration on Sunday, Feb 17, 2013 at 345 E Main St., Tustin, (Plaza between city hall and library), from 12 p.m. - 5 p.m. contact:(714)943-7585.
Celebration / Festival
新 春 歡 慶
Feb. 17, 2013
Sunday, 12 p.m. – 4 p.m.
Plaza between Tustin City hall and library-
345 East Main Street, Tustin, CA 92780
• Food Truck
• Performances
Lion dance、Kung Fu、
Music and Dance
• Calligraphy Arts
• Hands-on Crafts
• Lucky red envelopes
(Receive a fortune cook at the event)
Visual Arts Exhibit
文化 藝術展
at Tustin Library
Feb.1 – 17, 2013
Student Art Contest
學生 繪畫 比賽
Pack up entry form at
Tustin Library (714)544-7725
or download at JoyofKungfu.info
Welcoming the Year of the Snake
蛇 舞 新 春 萬 相 豐
It is a time to cast away the cold winter
and meet the vitality of spring.
On Feb. 17, take part of the once a year event
with family and friends to experience
the colorful celebration
and to have good luck for the coming year.
Presented by Tustin Library
Sponsors: 爾灣贊化書院 CH AUTO GUPPY TEA HOUSE Joyful Taiji Irvine Northwood Park Taiji Group
Media Sponsors: Chinese La Daily News Zhong Guo Daily News Chinesedaily.com
Performance by
Acupuncture & Vital Energy/Chinese Reading Club / Flying Dragon Martial Arts School / Irvine Lake Side Tai Chi Club /Joy of Kungfu / Tai Chi the feeling / IKPAVC Youth Samulnori Team / School of Internal Arts / Ronascance School Int'l / Mei - Ling Lee Chinese Dance Group / Haven Belly Dance Collective / North Orange County Chinese School / Tiger Crane Lion Dance Team
Contact at (714)943-7585 for more information
Joy l Music l Dance l Fashion Show l Crafts l Photography l Art Appreciation l Friendship l Culture Exchange
When & Where
Tustin Library
345 East Main Street
Sunday, February 17, 2013 from 12:00 PM to 4:00 PM (PST)
Add to my calendar
abc arts
Cultural and Arts
• 25 years of professional photography
• Pacific Asia Museum – Project Photographer
• Taught at City of Arcadia, Tustin, San Gabriel - Park & Rec. and Opus119, Irvine
• Former Garden Grove Journal - Art Director
• Sino-US Cultural Exchange photo Contest, General Referee


text:
Sorry I haven't updated you guys. We have been meeting every week for some incredible steaks lately, and the weather has been good for it.
Last night was my turn to grill. I did steak and shrimp kabobs, and let me tell you, they were incredible. I don't have to vocabulary to fully describe how good they were.
The steaks were rubbed with a chipotle chile and garlic rub (there is nothing quite like chile on grilled meat). On the kabobs were tomatoes, white mushrooms, bell peppers, fresh pineapple, onion, lemon, and collosal (the size of a hacky sack) shrimp. The lemons were skewered on either side of the shrimp.
I used two small packs of Jack Daniels smoking pellets on the coals. This was the first time I had used smoking pellets, and I highly recommend them. I bought a bag at Wal*mart for a couple of bucks. Well worth it.
This was, in my opinion, the best meal yet for the Society. If you haven't tried kabobs in a while, don't wait!


text:
Topic: Scan results after 4 rounds of FOLFIRINOX
My husband had a resection for intrahepatic CC in November 2011 and was fine for ten months but his September 2012 scan showed multiple tumors in his liver and an enlarged paracardial lymph node (all confirmed by a PET scan). On November 7, he began chemotherapy with FOLFIRINOX and today we received the results of his recent scan. The tumors in the liver appear to be stable and the lymph node has decreased in size by about 50%. The oncologist seemed pleased with the results and plans four more rounds of FOLFIRINOX followed by another scan. Although my husband has had some problems with diarrhea, he has been able to control this with medication and his other side effects have been minimal. He is still quite active and working full-time. The oncologist said that FOLFIRINOX is a very toxic chemo regimen and my husband is tolerating it better than 95% of the people who have been on it. Although I was hoping that the tumors in the liver would shrink somewhat, I still think these results are worthy of posting in the good new section. In any event, it's good to have a plan in place for the next few weeks.


text:
A 59-YEAR-old man was stabbed on Friday night at a pub in High Wycombe.
At about 6.30pm police were called to The Pheasant pub in London Road at the junction with Gordon Road.
On arrival officers immediately secured the scene after they discovered a 59-year-old man with stab wounds to his chest area.
Police spokesman, Chris Kearney, said a 60-year-old man, known to the victim, was arrested.
Ian Jackson, 60, from Bank Street, Wycombe Marsh has since been charged with GBH with intent and possession of an offensive weapon in a public place, namely a 12 inch kitchen knife.
The injured man was taken to John Radcliffe Hospital. His injuries have now been confirmed as non life threatening


text:
Hey there, time traveller!
This article was published 25/4/2013 (1578 days ago), so information in it may no longer be current.
People who tend to party too much on a Saturday night are apt to see pink elephants in their vision. But others who never misbehave may suddenly notice spots, threads or cobweb-like structures floating in front of their eyes. What causes these images and when are they a medical emergency?
Eye-floaters are those tiny flecks, spots or cobweb-like structures that appear to drift aimlessly around in your field of vision. A few people find them terribly annoying. Others fret that they may herald the onset of a serious eye problem or even end in blindness.
What causes these floaters? The vitreous is a large chamber in the back part of the eye. Early in life, it consists of a gel-like substance that is crystal-clear. But as we age, this mass begins to dissolve and become liquefied. This causes some undissolved particles to float around in the more liquid vitreous. These movable objects then cast shadows on the retina and sufferers see them in front of their eyes.
Patients become particularly aware of floaters when they look at a white wall, or on a bright, sunny day, or when they gaze at the sky. Others find the cobweb-like structures very annoying when working at a white computer screen.
Floaters are much like grey hair or wrinkled skin. The eye ages like every other organ in the body, but each part of the eye gets its wrinkles in a different way. For instance, the need to back away to see letters in the telephone book is the result of the lens becoming more rigid with age.
Some people become compulsive about floaters and can't stop looking at them. They're frustrated that these specks never stand still when they try to focus on them. And of course the more they search for floaters, the more they find and the more it bothers them. In fact, a large number of people have floaters but never see them.
Dr. Charles L. Schepens, one of Harvard's famous ophthalmologists, often gave this sage advice to patients troubled by floaters. "Make them your friend," he said. But there are times when unfriendly floaters appear.
Patients who see a sudden shower of floaters, sometimes associated with flashes of light or sparks, should immediately seek medical attention. This may indicate a vitreous strand has exerted enough pressure on the retina that a retinal detachment has occurred. If a curtain falls over the vision, it's further proof retinal detachment is present.
A report in the Journal of the American Medical Association states the sudden appearance of floaters and flashes mean one in seven people with these symptoms will have developed either a tear or detachment of the retina.
But not all flashes are of retinal origin. Some people complain of seeing flashes of light that appear as jagged, vibrating lines or "heat waves" in both eyes. These sensations usually last about 10 to 15 minutes, can occur without a headache and are believed to be due to migraine.
Retinal detachment is a serious complication and the sooner treatment is started, the greater the chance vision can be restored. It's a terrible tragedy when people ignore a sudden appearance of floaters, hoping they will go away, and lose an eye that could be saved.
Some people are more prone to retinal detachment. For instance, people who are near-sighted are more likely to develop this problem. Diabetics are also more susceptible to another type of detachment caused by scar tissue.
Retinal detachment is also a complication of cataract surgery. The problem occurs in up to two per cent of those who have this operation. In 50 per cent of cases, this complication follows within a year of surgery. Improvement in vision may take weeks or months, depending on the severity of the detachment. But fortunately, the retina can be reattached in 95 per cent of cases.
Several procedures are available to treat retinal detachments. Retinal surgeons often use laser therapy and cryosurgery (intense cold) to seal the tear and reattach the retina.
Another procedure, called pneumatic retinopexy, can be performed. This involves injecting a gas bubble into the eye and placing it over the tear. This blocks further release of fluid and allows fluid underneath the retina to be absorbed.
Scleral buckling is the time-honoured procedure. The detachment is first treated with cryosurgery, then a soft silicone band is placed around the eyeball. This helps bring the retina closer to the back part of the eye and promotes healing.
Some patients with major problems are treated by vitrectomy. In this procedure, the vitreous is removed to stop it from tugging on the retina. The vitreous is then replaced with air or gas. Over time, the air or gas is replaced by the body's own fluid.
Vitrectomy is normally used as a last resort, in part because 80 per cent of patients who have never had a cataract develop one within six months of this procedure.
That means this procedure is never a prudent option for those who are simply annoyed by constantly seeing floaters. The risk of complications is too great. The best treatment is to try to ignore them and "make them your friend."


text:
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text: By Salil Mehta, statisticianNEW YORK ( TheStreet) -- On July 22, the S&P 500 (e.g., the SPY ETF return as a proxy) closed at another record high, its 47th of the year. We may find ourselves in the familiar territory of asking where the markets will go now, just as we may have asked after the 46 record closes that preceded it. Will we extend to another record close? Or will we retrench? We can look for clues in similar periods, when investors and policy officials were asking similar questions. The main reference for the government and central bankers is the period leading up to the Great Depression. That secular bull market ended in August 1929, just before most of the effects of the Great Depression, and it took 25 years for the market to recover, even longer in Europe, with World War II intervening. While that duration of the global market recovery was lengthier versus today, the pronouncement of market choppiness and unsettled investor sentiment is exactly the same. During that time, bouts of volatility were commonplace in multi-year increments, similar to what we have in recent years. And each bout in volatility led to a lower high and a lower low. And it continued over and over. Until it didn't. Doesn't this sound similar to what we've had in this market recovery? Even more similar was the investor sentiment that reaching new highs in the financial markets was to be treated with even greater suspicion, as there was no global precedent for a faster recovery. Let's look also at other periods of inflection in the S&P 500 history to gauge where we are. These periods are not necessarily bull market peaks, but simply record-creating rallies where the underlying market sentiment was similar to what we have today, for example, 1964 or 1996. We can examine a broad set of market statistics for these market periods in the history of the S&P 500 and compare data for about nearly a year's worth of trading data leading up to the event shown in the following table.


text:
Everyone who's ever been to the West, or dreamed of it, knows this image: The sun sinks in a red-orange sky, the mountains rise craggy and blue in the background, and a band of wild mustangs gallops across the dun-colored plains with clouds of golden dust rising behind.
In 1971, when Congress passed its first act to protect American mustangs, it called them "living symbols of the historic and pioneer spirit of the West." And even as those mustangs continue—in ever-declining numbers—to roam the mountains and deserts of New Mexico, their domestic counterparts struggle to be the impossible balance between working livestock and human companions, their status shifting from beloved pet to so many pounds of meat in the space of a few minutes on the auction block.
The recession has only exacerbated the strife for horses and their owners, a fact made all too obvious by the surge in neglected and abandoned horses—approximately 500 per year now—and the staggering halt in adoptions of both wild and domestic horses from the state's meager 250 spots in equine rescue shelters. Wild horses in captivity are piling up, too, because no one wants them; since 2001, the number of wild horses in Bureau of Land Management holding pens has more than tripled.
New Mexico, as a Western state, has had a particularly fitful relationship with its horses. The mustangs that gallop through a snow-dusted Carson National Forest in the Jicarilla Ranger District are a far cry from the images of emaciated, lame, sometimes tortured horses that fill the animal-cruelty files at the New Mexico Livestock Board's offices in Albuquerque—even though the BLM's management of those same mustangs has grown unsustainable to the point of eliciting a scathing report by the US Government Accountability Office this October. The bony bodies of still half-starved mares rescued from an abandoned property in Bosque Farms are just as far from the proudly elegant quarter horses that prance around parts of Santa Fe. But they all have something in common: There are too many of them, they cost too much and nobody wants them.
"It's like the housing market in Phoenix: There's a glut on the market," Lee Otteni, a former BLM employee who now does consulting, says. "There's more horses than people want, and I don't see that changing anytime soon. With people looking for jobs, people taking furloughs—in that kind of an economic situation, no one wants a hay burner in their backyard."
But one man's hay burner is another man's family member, and therein lies the problem.
Whether it's novice "backyard breeders," optimistic city slickers starting up pipe-dream horse farms or people who simply have bought beyond their means, unrealistic expectations—many of which stem, unsurprisingly, from New Mexico's rich and stubborn Wild West tradition—have put the state's horses in jeopardy. Take Ben and Jerry, two abandoned colts seized from a shoddy breeding operation in Bosque Farms, south of Albuquerque.


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A very special name. Just like the ones who carry the name. Usually Pleun's are extremy beautyful. They're sweet, funny and you just have to be happy when you're around them. They can be shy at first, but ones you get to know them they're the best friends you can wish for. They're quite talented most of the time. If you don't have a Pleun in your life, go find yourself one! You'll never want to lose a loyal friend like her.
"That girl is so cute, what's her name" "oh I'm not sure but I guess her name's Pleun." "Why?" "Because she's very pretty and sweet"
by Felice22_ September 19, 2013
The Urban Dictionary Mug
One side has the word, one side has the definition. Microwave and dishwasher safe. Lotsa space for your liquids.Buy the mug


text:
Rape is Rape. Why Kidpower works to help ALL people be safe!
So today I must applaud the announcement that the FBI and the Department of Justice have finally expanded the definition of the crime of rape to include the sexual assaults of men, children and any adult who cannot give consent to sex. Though I hate the idea that anyone would experience this or any kind of violence in their lives, it is important to define it accurately in our statistics, so we can work more effectively to prevent this terrible crime.


text:
KDE menu
From MEPIS Documentation Wiki
KDE Menu, Start Menu, K-menu, or Kmenu all refer to the menu used access programs and utilities. This is similar to "Start" in Windows.
You get the menu by clicking the MEPIS Logo at the left side of the panel at the bottom of the Desktop:
To execute or start a software program, you just click on the program name that you would like to use.
To edit the KDE menu, right-click on KMenu and choose "Menu Editor".
This is the MEPIS Default Kmenu (Classic Menu Style):
This is the Kmenu when "Kickoff Menu Style" is selected. (right-click on Kmenu and Select "Kickoff Menu Style"):
MEPIS 8.0 and earlier
This is an example of the appearance of the KDE 3.x menu:
Tips and tricks
The default keyboard shortcut to activate the Start Menu is the Alt +F1 combination. Some people prefer to use the "Windows" key on their keyboard instead. In order to do so please follow these instructions:
1. Open Konsole and type the following command:
xev|grep -i keycode
then press the left "Windows" key to get its keycode. The keycode is probably 115 for MEPIS 8.5 (if you get a different keycode please replace 115 with it in the instructions bellow). Close Konsole.
2. Open Kwrite and type (or copy and paste) in the following:
#!/bin/bash xmodmap -e "keycode 115 = F13
3. Save the file to the desktop by naming it winkey or any other name you want.
4. Right click on the file you just saved, click on the "Permissions" tab and enable the check box "Is executable"
5. Open Dolphin and click on "View" and enable "Show Hidden Files". Then go to your home directory and open the .kde folder and move the winkey file to the Autostart sub directory.
6. Log out and then back in
7. Right click on the Start Menu > Application Launcher Menu Settings > Keyboard Shortcut tab, and click on the back arrow to reset the shortcut. Finally press the left "Windows" key and the shortcut should now be F13.
That's it. Now the left "windows" key will launch the Start Menu!


text:
Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by Pokes12, Jan 23, 2013.
Kaepernick ran for more yards in 8 games than Romo has run for in his entire career.
The reason why the zone read is a gimmick is the same reason why Kaepernick had only two attempts for twenty-one yards in the NFC championship. Quite a few of the running plays called up by the 49ers were zone read plays, but the Falcons *always* had their unblocked defensive end responsible for the quarterback, and consequently Kaepernick always handed the ball off. At that point the play is the same as any other running play and is reliant upon good blocking.
I know that one of Kaepernick's runs, and I'm guessing more likely than not his other one, came on a passing play in which he chose to run it.
This is why it's so baffling to me that the Cowboys were utterly unable to stop the zone read in Week 17 against the Redskins. If Spencer and Ware simply stayed with RG3 every time, then the play would become a standard hand-off.
The pistol is the short shotgun with a running back behind the center about 7 yards. You can handoff to a running back with a head of steam and the back can run to either side. It has nothing to to with running the qb.
You really want your 33 year old QB with 4.8 speed running up the field on QB keepers?
Didn't think so.
How big were those pockets against Baltimore and Atlanta?
Please no.
If we want to trick with the wildcat on rare occasion, then former QB Dwayne Harris is our guy.
No Pistol with Tony though.
Its amazing how many people think that because tony is elusive with good lateral quickness, he must be a running QB. Tony is SLOW. Someone quoted 4.8, he is slower than that at this point in his career. Pistol takes a QB who can run, like fast. If he wasn't slow BTW, he easily scores on the botched snap in Seattle in the playoffs, and everyone would think of him as a super aware/hero who saved the game.
You are absolutely correct. The read otpion is a just a series out of that pistol formation, there are penty of dives, traps and play action.
It's not a gimmick, it's here and not going anywhere. The pitsol is very tough to defend as the Lb's can not get a good read on the Rb's behind the QB standing up. Anyone who says otherwise doesnt know what their talking about or has failed to do their homework. They are just thinking they are great and feel pretty good about themselves spewing garb from their tongue.
This not the wildcat and it's too damn successful at all levels to go away anytime soon.
Well, it's a standard hand-off, but the defense is down one man if an OLB or DE stays with the qb each time. That is kind of the point why a runner like Morris or Gore who can get yards after initial contact can excel when the QB can freeze one of the defensive starters, if even for just 1 second.
For the record, teams using the pistol formation in the second half of the season (when d coordinators all had tape from Griffin's first half, and Newton last year) against non-pistol teams:
SF: 7-1, one OT loss to St Louis, avg points scored 30.1
Sea: 4-1, only loss to Atl in playoffs, avg points scored 35.8
Was: 9-5, avg points scored 27.8 (didn't count the carolina loss, or the cleveland win)
Just to be clear, those stats are from the time a team implemented the pistol as a standard part of it's playbook (so when CK started, and in Seattle's case from the Bears game as most commentators agree that is when they added it in to their playbook as a regular part). I didn't count pistol vs pistol games because they would obviously balance out, one winner and one loser per game.
Certainly defensive coordinators are going to study up on this offense, and figure out ways to reduce it's effectiveness, but these numbers would seem to indicate that a lot of OC's are going to try and find ways to bring parts of the scheme into theirs as well.
you want romo to think even more under pressure??
he would probably throw a pick while handing it off
also if they let the DE/OLB come off the line unblocked, it adds another blocker, so its kindve 2 for 1 advantage for the offense. whether this offense goes away or not, it does put pressure on a D.
As a 1st or 2nd year player yes Romo could have run the pistol quite well.
Not now.
Tony is agile and slippery but he isn't fast.
The Pistol is a little league type defense. (my preferred youth football offense) It is easily defended once players are used to seeing it unless the athletes are better on the offense. A perfect example is the Wash vs Sea playoff game. Those two defenses see the pistol the most outside of SF and they handled it very well for a 24-14 game with lots of offensive mistakes.
This will be phased out of the league. As a Skins fan you'll be fine because RG3 can run other offenses (if he gets healthy). Not so sure about Seattle with Wilson.
In fact Wash may never run another Pistol formation. RG3 is too valuable to get hit repeatedly. And any decent team will start to blast him on every hand off and every fake. Pretty soon he'd be Mike Vick.
Romo actually thinks under pressure in the first place? lol @ Romo thinking under pressure.
I think, but am willing to accept it if I am wrong, that the pistol formation gives some advantages to the offense that will be incorporated into the NFL as a whole. It gives a downhill runner a two way go, freezing the linebackers for a moment, and also has the qb in the position to throw quick shorts, either to the side, or just behind the linebackers. It forces a defense to cover the whole mid range (0-10 yards) of the field nearly instantly at the snap and that makes individual defenders have to make quick decisions and solid tackles. It can of course be defended, like any offensive scheme, but that doesn't mean it will be phased out at some point in the future.
I agree that Griffin is capable of executing out of any offensive set, and isn't dependent on the pistol, but he does execute it very very well.
Your statement on defenses blasting Griffin from the zone read play is baseless. They did it early on, and he learned early on to show that he was not a runner. The qb doesn't have to hold the fake long enough for a de/olb to get a bead on him and level him, only for the one step to get the RB an open lane.
and now for the part that frustates alot of people. One main reason the zone read can work at this point is because defenses hands are tied so harshly against hard hitting football. You see the hesitation that causes a defender to pull up near a sideline, and the runner stays in rather than stepping out, or a CB not laying a hard hit on a WR, lest a penalty and fine come his way. Same with DE/OLB's in the zone read, its not worth 15yd penalties and gross fines for these players to take hard shots at a qb who may or may not be protected by the refs at the moment the initial split second decision is made. I don't agree with all the 15yd penalties, and think they ought to be reviewed/challengeable, but for now it is the rules, and they give offenses far more advantage to run things like the wildcat or zone read option with less risk to your star players.
When the QB is considered a runner the defense can in fact tee off. That has happened more and more with teams even willing to take 15 yard penalties to make those hard hits on QBs. That is the single largest reason this stuff will cease. If RG3 comes back next year but takes another hit in the legs and tears his ACL again because he was running read-option Shanahan will need full-time security. If Redskin fans don't lynch him plenty of folks in the state of Texas will be ready to. RG3 lead insanely effective college offense without needing to run much or use read-option stuff.
The Pistol is just a short shotgun formation. It's benefit is very real. You have a lot of quick options and move the ball quickly making it hard for defenses to react or get upfield pressure. But it's use is largely situational on an NFL level. Deeper shotguns have even more speed to the QBs hand and more time for the QB to read defenses.
We will likely see some elements of that remain in the NFL.
The Read-Option is not new and came into vogue only this year because there were a plethora of very athletic QBs. But it will NOT last. No offense that places the QB in danger regularly will last.
Defenses are simply not adjusted to it yet; but they will be.
As to the two way goes and all that stuff. That's not really anything different from a basic draw play. Every option ever gave you "options" thus a read and thus the actual name. But that hasn't been usable in the NFL in forever as more than a trick play. Assignment football on defense is basically what happens every play and how you stop this.
Great athletes who play QB run a lot early in their careers and it slowly tails off. Or their careers end.
This year it was a nightmare for teams to have to try and scheme for read-option plays within the confines of one week study. But you give Defensive staffs all summer and it will be much less effective next year I promise you. And once it becomes less effective people will go away from it.
Same thing as the wildcat and playing Tebow at QB.
Tony has enough problems running the slingshot.
First, Griffin has gotten hurt both times because he didn't know how to end a play safely. Never because of the Pistol Formation, or on a zone-read play.
When the qb is determined to be a runner the defense can tee off, that is true. But Griffin, and other zone read qbs, know before the defense knows that they are not the runner, and Griffin learned quick to show that he is not a runner. That's why we didn't see him getting it a ton after his hand offs in the zone read game late in the season.
Your last statement is just a false comparison. Tebow behind center or a wildcat set lets your defense know it's not going to be a successful deep pass. A pistol formation keeps all the main characters, qb, rb, fb, te and wr, in their "natural" position, so the defense can't pre-snap tee off or dismiss one threat.
Time will tell, but as I said in the earlier post, the pistol formation was used against non-pistol opponents in about 25 games, and had a win loss ratio of 80%. I think the NFL offenses will take note of that. The wildcat never showed anywhere near that amount of promise.


text:
- Code: Select all
tn.write("echo A\n")
sock = tn.get_socket()
buf = ''
while 1:
r, w, x = select.select([sock], [], [], 1)
if r:
buf += tn.read_eager()
I always get a ^C after the first prompt:
- Code: Select all
(Pdb) p buf
'echo A\r\nA\r\nroot@localhost:/# ^C\r\nroot@localhost:/#
The command doesn't matter. The code snippet above is just the latest, if I use read_until() with or without the socket check, I still get the ctlr-C every time.
I'm still new to python, does anyone know how I can get rid of it? Running telnet directly doesn't show a control-c, nor does the serial port version of this code, so I'm sure it's not the remote shell.
- skew


text:
A LIGHT aircraft which struck a tree as it came in to land killing a Blackburn father might have had ice on the carburettor, an investigation has concluded.
Iain Nuttall, 37, suffered fatal injuries when the Piper Cherokee aeroplane he was a passenger in lost power and crashed as they flew from Blackpool to Caernarfon in Wales.
His five-year-old son Daniel and father John, 61, a seasoned pilot from Haslingden, were freed from the destroyed four-seater aircraft and were taken to hospital with serious injuries.
Daniel had dozens of stitches closing a deep wound running across the bridge of his nose into both eye sockets.
A report by the Air Accidents Investigation Branch has found there was no evidence of failure within the engine, but that the atmospheric conditions were 'conductive to carburettor icing'.
The report author said: "The aircraft was seen by several witnesses to get very low on the final approach and to be flying slow.
"The aircraft struck a tree and dropped to the ground in a steep nose-down attitude."
One witness reported that the engine was 'trying to pick up and popping' and he had the impression the pilot may have pumped the throttle three or four times.
Another said they heard the engine 'spluttering' and that it seemed to backfire.
A post-mortem examination was carried out following the accident, which found there was evidence to suggest Iain, a former soldier in the Kings Own Royal Border Regiment, had not been restrained by either a lap or shoulder harness at the time of the accident.
The AAIB report concluded the first John had known of any problems was when the engine started to fail.
He said: "The pilot was familiar with the route and the weather conditions were suitable for the flight.
"The flight proceeded without incident until the latter stages of the approach when he attempted to add power, but the engine did not respond."


text:
All staff may be reached by e-mail, or you may reach them by phone at (202) 544-2422 (their individual extensions follow their names).
Jim Grossman
Executive Director
Contact Info:
Phone: (202) 544-2422
James Grossman is Executive Director of the American Historical Association. Formerly Vice President for Research and Education at the Newberry Library, he has taught at the University of Chicago and the University of California, San Diego. He is the author of Land of Hope: Chicago, Black Southerners, and the Great Migration and A Chance to Make Good: African-Americans, 1900-1929, and project director and coeditor of The Encyclopedia of Chicago (2005; online edition, 2006).
Kritika Agarwal
Associate Editor, Publications
Contact Info:
Phone: 202-450-3209, ext. 133
Kritika is the AHA's new associate editor, publications. Kritika comes to the AHA from the University at Buffalo, SUNY (UB), where she recently completed her PhD in American studies. In her new role at the AHA, Kritika will be writing and editing articles for Perspectives on History as well as overseeing the AHA's blog, AHA Today. Follow her on Twitter @kritikaldesi.
Julia Brookins
Special Projects Coordinator
Contact Info:
Phone: (202) 544-2422
Julia Brookins joined the AHA in November 2010. She directs the nationwide AHA Tuning Project, serves on the editorial board of Perspectives on History, and is part of the team that develops initiatives to advance history in education and public life. She also helps with analysis and communication about data on the history discipline. She received her undergraduate degree in history from Harvard University and a PhD in US history from the University of Chicago, with a focus on immigration and citizenship in the Southwest.
Seth Denbo
Director of Scholarly Communication and Digital Initiatives
Contact Info:
Phone: (202) 544-2422, ext. 118
Seth oversees the publication department of the AHA and is primary staff for the Association's Research Division. He is working to develop innovative digital projects to enhance the organization's mission. He earned his PhD from the University of Warwick and is a cultural historian of 18th-century Britain. He has taught British history in universities in both the United States and the United Kingdom. He has also worked on digital projects at Maryland Institute for Technology in the Humanities at UMD and the Department for Digital Humanities at King's College London. Over the past 10 years, Seth has participated actively in the development of innovative digital tools and methods for historical scholarship.
Debbie Ann Doyle
Meetings Coordinator
Contact Info:
Phone: (202) 544-2422, ext. 104
Debbie oversees many aspects of the annual meeting, including editing the program and staffing the Program Committee, Local Arrangements Committee, and Council Committee on the Annual Meeting. She also staffs the Committee on Women Historians, the Committee on LGBTQ History and Historians, and the Advisory Committee on Disability. She is a member of the in-house editorial board for Perspectives on History. Debbie received her BA in history from Clark University, an MA from American University, and a PhD in American history from American University.
Elizabeth Elliott
Program Associate
Contact Info:
Phone: (202) 544-2422, ext. 106
Elizabeth provides support for the manager of academic affairs, including assistance with special projects, committees, and related activities. In addition, Elizabeth coordinates the AHA prizes and fellowships and produces content for the AHA Today blog and Perspectives on History. She received a BA in history from Gettysburg College in 2013, with special interests in poetry and Civil War Era studies.
Joe Gardella
Meetings and Executive Assistant
Contact Info:
Phone: (202) 544-2422, ext. 100
Joe Gardella is the meetings and executive assistant for the AHA. Joe supports the meetings coordinator, deputy director, and executive director, including various tasks essential to the planning of the AHA's annual meeting. In addition, Joe arranges logistics for meetings of the Association's governing board and various committees. He graduated from the University at Buffalo in December 2016 with a BA in history.
Jane Green
Marketing and Public Relations Manager
Contact Info:
Phone: 202-544-2422, ext. 111
Jane Fiegen Green joined the AHA in March 2015 to manage marketing, media relations, and fundraising efforts. She works closely with the membership department and annual meeting staff to draft communications and oversee outreach campaigns. Jane supports program staff by promoting the AHA's work and raising the Association's public profile. Additionally, she is the primary staff for the Association's Committee on Affiliated Societies and Graduate and Early Career Committee. Jane received her PhD from Washington University in St. Louis in 2014 with a dissertation on labor and the meaning of adulthood in 19th-century New England.
Michelle Hewitt
Membership Assistant Manager
Contact Info:
Phone: (202) 544-2422, ext. 123
Michelle is the Membership Assistant Manager. She handles day to day processing of membership and subscription dues. In addition, she assists with special projects and annual meeting registration. Michelle received her BS in Management Studies with a concentration in Human Resource Management from UMUC.
Zoe Jackson
Editorial Assistant
Contact Info:
Phone: (202) 544-2422, ext. 119
Zoë Jackson is the publications and academic affairs assistant for the AHA. Zoë supports the publications department, the Research Division, and helps with other projects. Zoë received a BA in history in May 2016 from Cornell University, where she focused on early modern English history.
Matthew Keough
Archives and Office Assistant
Contact Info:
Phone: (202) 544-2422, ext. 113
Matthew received a BA in history, summa cum laude, from Providence College in May 2006 and a MA in history from George Mason University in May 2014. He is currently the archives and office assistant and has been a member of the AHA staff since December 2008. Matthew responds to general inquiries, coordinates daily office needs, and organizes the AHA institutional records for archival purposes.
Stephanie Kingsley
Associate Editor, Web Content and Social Media
Contact Info:
Phone: 202.544.2422, ext. 117
Stephanie edits content for the AHA website and maintains the AHA's social media presence. Stephanie received her MA in English literature from the University of Virginia, where she specialized in American literature, textual studies, and book history. She plays the violin and occasionally writes on music history
Allison Miller
Editor, Perspectives on History
Contact Info:
Phone: (202) 544-2422, ext. 120
Allison Miller earned her PhD in history from Rutgers University - New Brunswick and for two years held a Mellon postdoctoral teaching fellowship at the University of Southern California. She is the author of "Am I Normal? American Vernacular Psychology and the Tomboy Body, 1900-1940," published in Representations (Spring 2013). Before entering graduate school, she worked in magazine publishing, with staff positions at Lingua Franca, Paper, and Cosmo Girl. She became editor of Perspectives on History in June 2015.
Randy Norell
Contact Info:
Phone: (202) 544-2422, ext. 109
Randy works closely with the executive director and is responsible for preparing the annual budget, monthly financial statements, supply and procurement of services, supplies, and equipment. He provides administrative support for the Association and prepares financial reports for federal government and private foundations that support the Association.
Betsy Orgodol
Senior Accountant
Contact Info:
Phone: 202-544-2422, ext. 110
Betsy handles the day-to-day financial operations of the association. She received her BS in international economics from Institute of International Economics and her MS in public administration from Strayer University in Washington, DC.
Dylan Ruediger
Coordinator, Career Diversity for Historians
Contact Info:
Phone: 202-450-3835 ext. 108
Dylan is the Coordinator of Career Diversity for Historians initiatives and also serves on the editorial board of Perspectives on History. He comes to the AHA from Georgia State University, where he recently completed a PhD in Early American and Native American history, focusing on Native American political relationships in late seventeenth and early eighteenth century Virginia.
Dana Schaffer
Deputy Director
Contact Info:
Phone: (202) 544-2422, ext. 114
Dana oversees the internal operations of the Association including membership, finance, meetings, development, marketing, and awards. She is secretary to the AHA Council and occasionally coordinates AHA initiatives. Prior to joining the AHA staff in February 2013, Dana served as the assistant director at the Gilder Lehrman Center for the Study of Slavery, Resistance, and Abolition at Yale University, where she planned and directed public and academic programs and initiatives. Dana holds a BA in history from the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill and an MA in public history from American University.
Pamela Scott-Pinkney
Membership Manager
Contact Info:
Phone: (202) 544-2422, ext. 115
Pam manages the day-to-day operations of the membership department. She also oversees processing of membership and subscription dues. In addition, she assists with annual meeting registration.
Emily Swafford
Manager of Academic Affairs
Contact Info:
Phone: (202) 544-2422, ext. 121
Emily Swafford joined the AHA in September 2014. As manager of academic affairs, she helps to direct the AHA's many grant-funded undertakings. Her main project is to support the Career Diversity for Historians initiative. As part of staffing the Teaching Division and the Graduate and Early Career Committee, she also works on issues of graduate, undergraduate, and K-12 education. She earned a BA in history and American studies at the University of Virginia and her PhD in 20th-century US history at the University of Chicago. She is a historian of the US military, US foreign relations, and women's and gender history.
Liz Townsend
Coordinator, Data Administration and Integrity
Contact Info:
Phone: (202) 544-2422, ext. 122
Liz started working at the AHA in 1991 as editorial assistant for the Directory of History Departments, Historical Organizations, and Historians. She now oversees the AHA Career Center; edits the Directory; staffs the Professional Division of the AHA Council, the Committee on Committees, and the Nominating Committee; oversees the election of AHA officers; and manages the annual meeting Job Center. Liz also maintains professional data in the AHA's membership records and in the directories of doctoral programs and dissertations, helps update the website, proofreads most AHA publications, and consults on information technology issues in the office.
American Historical Review Staff
The AHR editorial office is housed at Indiana University in Bloomington, Indiana.


text:
Ask the Experts: Change a Habit, Change Your Health, Part 2by Jason Machowsky in Ask the Experts, April 6, 2013
"If you could recommend just one habit that someone should start doing to eat, and live, healthier, what would that habit be?"
This is the question I posed to a group of my colleagues – registered dietitians and nutritionists – in the trenches coaching and counseling people in the science, and art, of eating better. So many experts responded with great tips, that I sorted the feedback into categories. In addition to the tips below, you can find additional tips in Change a Habit, Change Your Life, Part 1.
Adjust your portion sizes so you're satisfied, not stuffed
• "To shrink your waist, shrink your plate! You'll trick your brain into feeling more satisfied by the generous-looking portions. And if you go back for seconds, your overall portion may still offer fewer calories than if you had served your meal on an oversized platter." – Jessica Corwin, RD, MPH
• Use smaller plates, bowls, silverware and glasses. Studies show you'll eat less and you can clean your plate without the guilt. — Multiple experts
• "Gradually get used to being a little hungry between meals. Don't deprive but eat 10 to 20% less (this may be two less bites at a meal, a half portion less of a side dish or one less piece of bread)." – Roseanne Rust, MS, RD, LDN
• "Eat with your stomach and not your wallet. Just because you paid for something — it doesn't mean you have to finish it (or you'll 'pay for it' in other ways!)" — Bonnie Taub Dix, MA, RD, CDN
Become more mindful of your eating habits
• "Before you eat, HALT = Ask yourself: are you hungry, angry, lonely or tired?" — Chere Bork, MS, RD, LN
• Write down/record everything you eat and drink. — Multiple experts
• Relax at meal time: put your fork down between bites, chew well and taste your food. Pretend like you're a food critic. It takes 15 to 20 minutes to know you're full, so you may as well enjoy it. — Multiple experts
• "Practice conscious eating . . . avoid distractions at mealtime (no TV, reading, etc.) and pause midway to ask if you are still hungry." – Bonnie Giller, MS, RD, CDN, CDE
• "Ditch the fad diets, and discover the best way of eating for you, that you'll love eating for the rest of your life." – EA Stewart, MBA, RD
Have a positive outlook about eating – and life
• Nourish your mind through positive thoughts: believe in yourself, commit to making positive changes in your life, be happy and smile more often. — Multiple experts
• "Control what is in your control. Make the best food choices you can every day, so then when you're in a situation where there are limited healthy options available, you can participate with limited stress because you know you make great choices most of the time." – Kathy Ireland, MS, RD, LDN
• "Think healthy, not skinny." – Lauren Harris-Pincus, MS, RD of Nutritionbabes.com
• Write down one achievement you've attained and one person/thing you're grateful for each day. — Multiple experts
Review the habit changes recommended above (or from this post), choose the one that works best for you and give it a shot for three to four weeks. Research shows it takes about that long for a new action to become a sustained habit. If one recommendation doesn't work for you, try another one; different approaches work for different people at different times.
Do you have another habit to share? Tell us!
In addition to the quotes above, I'm so grateful for all of the wonderful feedback I received from the following nutrition professionals: Jenn Randazzo, Lisa Young, Jennifer Neily, Ana Kucelin, Carlene Thomas, Janet Helm, Carol Plotkin, Kimberly Oswalt, Rebecca McConville, Marina Stauffer, Wendy Hess, Vicky Retelny, Dr. Sally Rockwell, Donna Israel, Carol Ireton Jones, Elizabeth Ward, Sheila Campbell, Kate Yonke, Lorraine Huntley, Yvette Quantz, Jennifer Erdmann, Jill Fuster and Aarti Batavia.
Originally an overweight engineer and traveling IT consultant, Jason Machowsky lost over thirty pounds and changed careers to pursue his passion. He is now a Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist and Registered Dietitian, having received his Masters of Science in Applied Physiology and Nutrition from Teachers College at Columbia University in New York. Through his book and blog, Death of the Diet, Jason empowers people to live the life they want by working with them to integrate healthy eating and physical activity habits into their daily routines.


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Public and private non-profit organizations may submit proposals to implement an exchange program for American high school students that will enable the participants to gain firsthand knowledge of foreign cultures and to collaborate on solving global issues. The award recipients will recruit and select participants from the United States and provide them with a three- to four-week exchange program in select countries abroad focused on dialogue and debate, leadership development, and community service. Upon returning home, the students will apply what they have learned to serve their schools and communities.
Learn more and apply.
© 2016 National Sexual Violence Resource Center – Founded by the Pennsylvania Coalition Against Rape
This site is supported by Grant/ Cooperative Agreement No. 1UF2CE002359-04 from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Its contents are solely the responsibility of the authors and do not necessarily represent the official views of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.


text:
OG Experience
Coffee Anonymous
Weekly Event - Every Tuesday: 7:00 PM to 9:00 PM (CDT)
Event Details
You're invited to be our special guest as we present to you the Organo Gold Experience. This very informative meeting will enlighten you on an opportunity that has already been proven to provide financial freedom and the lifestyle of your choice for many people. As our VIP guest all expenses are already taken care of and you are not obligated to purchase anything. You deserve to know about alternative forms of income that exist and decide for yourself.
Space is limited.. If the event is sold out please select an available date. If you can only make it on a date that's already sold out please contact firstname.lastname@example.com for more assistance.
The attire for this event is business casual.
Sheraton Hotel (next to Galleria)
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Weekly Event - Every Tuesday: 7:00 PM to 9:00 PM (CDT)
Add to my calendar
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Coffee Anonymous is the official place for all Coffee addicts of the world!
You don't have to risk your health anymore to your coffee addiction. Join Coffee Anonymous and get the cure. Guess what.... The Cure is Coffee!
Interested in becoming a distributor? Contact us for info on our next CA meeting.


text:
A PENSIONER has has received a two year suspended prison sentence for attempting to blackmail a branch of HSBC in South Lakeland.
Peter Frederick Gould, 71, of Robby Lea Drive, Natland, appeared in front of Judge Forrester today following a police investigation into blackmail.
The court heard that a police investigation was launched on June 14 2012 after a HSBC branch in Milnthorpe contacted officers to say they had received an anonymous ransom letter demanding £150,000 in cash. The letter stated that if the bank failed to pay up, female staff at the bank and members of their families would be raped.
A significant police investigation was immediately launched to identify the offender and ensure the bank staff and their families who were potentially at risk were safe, secure and reassured.
The investigation continued for several days and the author of the letter was identified as Gould who was arrested in Milnthorpe on July 18.
After his arrest police recovered a further copy of the ransom letter and other evidence on Gould's computer which he had buried in an attempt to hide evidence.
Detective Superintendent Paul Duhig said: "Gould committed a very serious offence which is highly unusual in Cumbria. We rarely encounter offences of blackmail and this case was especially unique due to the offender's age and the sophistication of his plot."


text:
- Τοποθεσία:
- Mykonos
- Διεύθυνση:
- Little Venice, Mykonos Town
- Επικοινωνία:
- tel: +30 22890 22451
- Δείτε στο Google Maps
If you're looking for a practical treat and an authentic souvenir of Greek summer, Mykonos Sandals is a good starting point. A long-standing family-run business, it was founded by Michalis Rampias in 1948, and is now run by his son Kostas, Kostas' wife Dora, and their daughter Maria. Their range of handmade leather sandals began with Michalis' original speciality, his unadorned natural-tan flip-flops, but has expanded through the years, and now includes more contemporary designs in coloured leather, with fancy decorations in beads and shells. There are styles and sizes to appeal to all the family.


text:
If you want to:
- Make product changes;
- Create something not in stock
6,000 + (and growing) factories in our existing network are eager to make it for you.
When it comes to selling in stock products, we are no difference from many other Internet retailers, but we take pride in going extra miles to do something special for you: Have some products custom made for you.
We cannot do everything, but we usually can accommodate a certain changes in product options such as color, size, material, or minor design twist. We primarily work with vendors or factories, not individual artist or craftsman. For custom made products, we usually only cater to bulk size order that meets the minimum quantity requirement of a single factory run. Don't be shy. Ask. What we can accomplish may surprise you!
Read this first: Copyrights & Trademarks
We can custom whole doll with your request including adding scenes! If you only need to custom head, it's ok to do that.


text:
Megan Fox Bikini Pictures
Bikini-Clad Megan Fox and Brian Austin Green Hit the Beach in Hawaii
Megan Fox wore a bikini to hit the beach with Brian Austin Green in Hawaii yesterday. The Big Island's Four Seasons resort served as host to Brian and Megan's June 2010 wedding, and since then, the couple have returned multiple times to vacation. Megan and Brian strolled along the beach showing off their impressive bodies, though her famous Marilyn Monroe forearm tattoo was hard to spot. Megan's in the process of having the black and white portrait removed after deciding it brought negative energy into her life.
Brian and Megan's latest bikini-filled trip is a perfectly timed getaway before she gets back to business promoting her latest movie. Megan shares the big screen with Jon Hamm and Maya Rudolph in the Jennifer Westfeldt-directed flick Friends With Kids, which opens nationwide March 9.


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Anatomy of a Product Launch: Is This A Paper Launch?by Kristopher Kubicki on 10/5/2005 12:25 AM EST
- Posted in
- GPUs
25 Comments
Back to Article
gamara - Monday, October 17, 2005 - linkFrom TomsHardware, "... when I called ATI PR manager Patricia Mikula yesterday, she stated that the retail channel should have stock today(10/5). NewEgg and Fry's were named and others should have availability today and at the latest by Thursday."
Today is 10/17, 12 days past the 10/5 launch of the X1800XL and my local Fry's, listed as one of the available locations, has not seen a single x1xxx SKU delivered. Not even an x1300. They did have a Phantom Edition X850 though. :)
TinyTeeth - Wednesday, October 05, 2005 - linkPaper launch or not, I just wonder whether you have tested an X1800XT and will be releasing a review when the NDA is due? Reply
DigitalFreak - Wednesday, October 05, 2005 - linkATI's countdown clock on their website is at 15 minutes ATM, so I'm assuming the reviews should start rolling in around 9am ET. Reply
TinyTeeth - Wednesday, October 05, 2005 - linkThat's great! I personally hope that Anandtech and Xbit Labs have got their hands on the card because I trust them the most and think they give the most qualitative reviews. Reply
DigitalFreak - Wednesday, October 05, 2005 - linkUpdate: Just read Extremetech's review, where they also compare an X1800XT 512MB vs the 7800GTX 256MB card. The X1800XT is anywhere from 3 - 20% faster than the 7800GTX, depending on the game. It's slowing in DOOM 3, but that's not surprising. Their comparison of the X1800XL vs the 7800GT was similar to the preview from HardOCP, in which those cards were evenly matched.
DigitalFreak - Wednesday, October 05, 2005 - linkWell, HardOCP and a couple other sites have reviews up on the 1800XL, and performance is on par with the 7800GT, but no better. Wonder when anandtech will put up their (p)review? Reply
Beenthere - Wednesday, October 05, 2005 - linkLet's face it the hype in the PC industry is second to none. Few mfgs. actually deliver products when they claim they will. AMD is a notable exception in the past 6 years delivering virtually on-time every time that I can remember.
The sad reality is that gullible PC enthusiasts will run right out and buy the latest releases of graphics card, CPUs, Mobos, memory etc. because industry media rave about how great it is and there are enough naive people who belive they can't live without the latest and greatest.
When you have people willing to go out and spend $400-$1000 every few months for the latest video card, you know these folks have more money than brains. Same applies for CPUs, memory, DFI Land Party Mobos, etc. If there was some TANGIBLE benefit, you might be able to rationaize the expenditure, but there isn't. PC enthusiasts need SLI and Crossfire like they need another hole in thier head... All it's worth is bragging rights. Bragging rights and a $10 bill will buy you a $2 dollar cup of coffee.
Bottom line is that the PC hardware mfgs. know how gullible PC enthusiasts are and they price their products accordingly. It's like fools waiting in line outside stores to purchase the newest release of the defective Windoze O/S, at midnight...Could anything be more ignorant??? It really makes no difference when a new PC product is PAPER released, there are enough fools out there to buy it when it finally shows. Reply
Kegh - Wednesday, October 05, 2005 - linkWhat difference does it make to you or me or anyone else what "fools" are willing to spend THEIR money on. Just because you (or I) would not spend money on a premium product doesn't mean jack. It's their money, they can spend it any freaking way or for whatever product they want... Get over it people, life's not fair. When you guys rant about "idiots" who upgrade every few months even though YOU don't see a reason for them to do it just makes you sound like your whining, just like a little kid who is jealous of the "rich kid" down the street who has all the popular toys.
Rant off....
Can't we all just get along? :)
SimonNZ - Wednesday, October 12, 2005 - linkI agree, so what if i want to upgrade to a SLI for my gamming rig? my other hobbies are alot cheaper and I earn my own money, I agree totally you just sound like a little kid who wants the new toys. Yes ALOT of people wont see any benefit in running a 7800GTX or a X2 but their are some people who will and as long as they are willing to pay for it then their is a market. Reply
TheInvincibleMustard - Wednesday, October 05, 2005 - linkExactly right, because there's no tangible benefit in upgrading a 6800Ultra to a 7800GTX ... Hell, I'm going to be upgrading to an X2 and 2x1024MB of RAM in the near future here (from an o/c'd 3000+ and 2x512MB), but I guess I won't see a tangible benefit from that, because you state that there's no tangible benefit to purchasing the "latest and greatest" especially since I just upgraded two months prior ... thanks for saving me several hundred dollars! *rolleyes*
Show me another video card on the market that can run WoW at 1920x1200 (my Dell 2405FPW's native resolution, which I suppose was also a stupid upgrade from my 19" LCD if you include monitors) with AA, AF, transparency AA, everything on full, and still maintain a playable frame rate ... that's right, good luck in that quest. If for some reason you equate "enjoying a game to a full extent" with "bragging rights" then yes, I guess it's bragging rights for me. I suppose I was also stupid for purchasing an MX1000, or an Audigy 2, or my Logitech Z-680's back in the day ... wow, guess I've made a bunch of stupid purchases.
On a much larger scale, did you know that there really is a tangible benefit to greater computing power? And that faster and faster computers are being built all the time? For billions of dollars? And researchers (especially in the fields of climate prediction and forecasting) are craving orders of magnitude more processing power than what is currently available? Shame on them, you say, it's overpriced and doesn't offer a tangible benefit! Tell that to the thousands of people's lives that were saved in the past year due to accurate prediction of future storm paths ...
If everyone had an attitude like yours, we'd still all be running on 8086's (if even that) because manufacturers would be too scared to spend the money on R&D since no one would purchase their new products. Where do you get your logic from? If there was no tangible benefit, people wouldn't buy the stuff! You seriously think that someone is spending upwards of $4000 on a system to pick up chicks or something? It's not a question of relative worth (ie, price/performance), it's a question of is there some benefit to the upgrade, however miniscule, and I (and many others) would argue that there is.
-TIM Reply
route66 - Wednesday, October 05, 2005 - linkSad.
I like how you validate your purchases by saying buying overpriced computer equipment gives the world more computing superpower to help predict deadly storms. Reply
TheInvincibleMustard - Wednesday, October 05, 2005 - linkI in no way attempted to "validate" my purchases by saying that my purchase of a 7800GTX allowed the Earth Simulator to gain another 10FLOPS, and I don't know where you got that notion from my post ...
What I find sad is that some people who responded to me thought that they were agreeing with the OP when in fact they were actually agreeing with me -- the OP said that there is no tangible benefit from going from (say) a 6800Ultra to a 7800GTX and I countered that there was indeed a tangible benefit, irregardless of whether that benefit is justified by the extra $300 purchase price or not.
If people want to argue questions of relative worth, then that is a completely separate topic. Is it worth spending $300 for an extra 5fps? For some people, no, but for others, yes -- no matter if it is "worth" it to you or not, you must agree that there is a benefit, however small, or else you just come across as ignorant.
To the person who stated that his X800XT PE was able to do what I do with my 7800GTX and WoW, is that also including transparency AA? If it is, then I retract my statement about "good luck in that quest", but I was not aware that you could enable transparency AA on an X800-class card in a game that uses it a lot (eg, WoW) without a fairly significant drop in framerates (on the order of 10-15%) ... if it works for you, then congrats, and I feel more knowledgable that it is indeed possible to have playable framerates on a non-7800GTX card (though, again, we could argue as to whether the 7800GTX provides a higher minimum, and that leads back to the argument that there is a tangible benefit).
-TIM Reply
RandomFool - Wednesday, October 05, 2005 - linkif you seriously believe that upgrading to the fastest and best thing every two months then you are retarded. There's no point in upgrading just becasue you can upgrade, it's a waste of money. IMO it's not worth it to upgrade unless your current system is limiting you, and it sounds to me like your system is fine you're just obsessed with seeming cool with your fancy computers. But if you can justify spending a ton of money for 10 fps in a game and so you can tell people you've got the uber-mega-1337 system with everything turned on go ahead. Reply
TheSloth - Friday, October 07, 2005 - linkI just picked up a 7800GTX and x2's about two weeks ago, and I don't think it was splurging at all. Up until then I'd been using my old HP with an integrated GeForce4 MX440. Upgrading to a mere 6800 would be inefficient, because the 7800 rapes it and isn't that much more. I spent good money built myself a system that I won't have to replace for a few years. Even my old rig, which wasn't even good at all when I got it 3 years ago could play HL2 and WoW, not well though. I expect several years of happy gaming on my new rig, and that justifies the cost Reply
DigitalFreak - Wednesday, October 05, 2005 - linkI run WoW on my 2405 @ 1920x1200 with all the options on full with an X800XT PE, and get very playable framerates... Reply
Quiksel - Wednesday, October 05, 2005 - linktoo bad you sound like one of the guys that has more money than brains, as mentioned above... :rolleyes back:
And don't even start to get on your soapbox about how scientific computing needs all the UBER GHZZZZ that hasn't been invented yet, as if everyone here doesn't already know that.
You're just a gamer... a gamer that is trying to justify an incredibly wasteful appetite for spending lost of money on an increasingly agressive upgrade cycle. You're not a scientist, you're just a consumer.
So stop preaching. You're just one of the sheep. Reply
xsilver - Wednesday, October 05, 2005 - linkyou are very right.... however there is the small group of people that run SLI 7800gtx's on a 17"lcd, or even worse, 17" crappy CRT
there are more examples of idiotic computer matching but i think you get the idea
dont get me wrong, I agree with you, just trying to point out what the OP probably meant
deadlock - Wednesday, October 05, 2005 - linkI run two 7800GTXs on a 19" LCD, which has the same resolution of 90% of the 17" LCDs out there.
At 1280x1024, with 16x AA and 16x AF, modern games slow to a crawl on my system. The F.E.A.R demo, for example, runs at about 5fps. Basically unplayable.
Modern hardware has a long way to go before it can play every game with everything maxxed out. Until that day comes, there will always be an argument for using SLI on most modern setups (even with a 17" LCD), and you will never have redundant power.
The value argument is something else, but "value" has never been a word associated with the ultra high-end anyway. Also questionable is the sense in spending so much on two high-end graphics cards but still use a 17" monitor, but doing so is their prerogative and I am just trying to point out doing so on a 17" monitor is by no means pointless. Reply
TheSloth - Friday, October 07, 2005 - linkSir, what are you doing to your system. 1280x1024 with maximum setting on the fear demo whould run with at least 60 fps with one 7800.... dear god.... Reply
bob661 - Wednesday, October 05, 2005 - linkIf you think really hard about it, no one actually NEEDS a computer at home. What wouldn't get done if there were no computers at home? Bills can be paid without one, shopping can be done without one, and even entertainment can done without one. That said, people that buy computers can be said to have "have more money than brains". That $400-$1000+ spent on a computer could be dropped into savings or added to a retirement fund. Computers are a luxury. Reply
highlandsun - Saturday, October 08, 2005 - linkComputers at home a luxury?
With the price of gasoline these days, the money I save by not having to drive to an office or a store easily pays for the cost of the computer, electricity, and ISP. My electronic bill payments are free, so no check printing and postage costs either. No way is it a luxury; that $400-1000 spent on a computer is money well-spent.
TheInvincibleMustard - Wednesday, October 05, 2005 - linkIt shouldn't be boiled down into a question of "need" as then we can get into some very far-reaching conclusions.
Telephones? Luxury
Electricity? Luxury
Cold food-storage? Luxury
Vehicles? Luxury
Yet I would wager that most of the people (probably 99.999%) that have the above four items see themselves benefitting very tangibly from those four items. Do we need them? Of course not, people have lived for thousands of years without them, and I'm sure people in "modern times" could do without them as well ... does that mean that people that have them "have more money than brains?" Of course not, and I hope people can see the flaw in utilizing a logic such as basing things off of "need" ...
-TIM Reply
Brian23 - Wednesday, October 05, 2005 - linki only boo this because I'm still running my Geforce 3 card and I need an upgrade. Since product launches bring down prices, I was about to buy a new card, but I don't want to get a gto2 because I don't have the money to splurge on a pcie system right now. I was hoping that r520 would bring down the prices so I could get something like a 6800. Reply
michal1980 - Wednesday, October 05, 2005 - linkHAHA
i mean is there really anything more to say? Reply
Brian23 - Wednesday, October 05, 2005 - linkI want a new graphics card NOW! Reply