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Gateway AMD and Intel Laptops, a Platform Analysisby Jarred Walton on 8/12/2009 2:00 AM EST
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- Laptops
67 Comments
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nofumble62 - Friday, August 21, 2009 - linkso he can play more games. LOL
That student probably won't stay in school very long. Reply
Smell This - Monday, August 17, 2009 - linkThe author makes the point of the importance of battery life and claims "Intel has the better mobile solution at pretty much all price points - i.e. better battery life ..."
With the difference in price between the two "units" in your "comparison" you could purchase a second battery for the AMD laptop. Reply
JarredWalton - Monday, August 17, 2009 - linkWhich doesn't change the fact that Intel will still offer better battery life to the tune of 28% more unplugged time. From the conclusion: "Using a higher capacity battery on an AMD platform could give you equivalent battery life, but then you're lugging around a heavier laptop and many high capacity batteries cost far more than $80." Carrying two batteries is fundamentally the same thing, except that you have to hibernate and swap batteries at some point.
The point of this review: look at AMD and Intel platforms, apples to apples. Intel wins on CPU and battery performance. 16% more cost yields 25% better performance and power. They also win on heat and noise, though it's not a huge margin there.
On the other hand, AMD/ATI wins the graphics competition and they cost less. They're somewhere in the realm of twice as fast at GPU intensive tasks, they can handle 1080p H.264 playback (where Intel would need something like PowerDVD Ultra to get the proper acceleration), and they cost 16% less.
If price is the determinant of what you buy, go for the AMD unit. If gaming is your number one concern, get a discrete GPU in a ~$700+ laptop. If you want a cheap lappy that can play *most* games at low detail, then AMD's current lineup also works okay. For all other options, right now it looks like Intel wins.
I've heard from many readers that feel battery life is very important; they're sick of the sub-three-hour options out there, and they're more than willing to give up gaming. If we look at the entire laptop market, I'd say such people are in a comfortable majority. If you're a college student on a shoestring budget, you'll probably be a lot happier with a somewhat slower office computer that can play more games.
BOTH opinions and options are right. There is no dictating that you MUST have better battery life, or that you MUST have better integrated graphics. Buy what you really need, after you look at the market and truly understand what the options are. That's my conclusion. For me, my needs and wants make the NV58 the winner, but I know plenty of users that would prefer the NV52 (like yourself), and I know still others that prefer even more graphics power. Reply
ALCX - Saturday, August 15, 2009 - linkI don't post much, 'cause usually someone has said what I thought already. But after reading all the 'jibber-jabber' going back and forth, I thought I would just say thank you for the article, I'm looking at buying a laptop for my daughter for school and this hit the spot.
Again....Thanks Reply
yehuda - Saturday, August 15, 2009 - linkI agree, it's clear a lot of effort went into the making of this article. Reply
evilspoons - Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - linkNice article. It confirmed my suspicions about AMD laptops. They're fine for the money but the Intel does pretty much everything better - if you can get an Intel with nVidia or ATi graphics, you're set.
It's really just a stupid nitpick, but I'd like to point out you forgot to mention a car model for your little Kia vs Hyundai analogy. The Kia Spectra is a piece of crap, but a Hyundai Genesis Coupe with the V6 and Track Package will give Nissan 370Zs a run for their money (at $20,000 less!) so the analogy doesn't really work well given this fact.
I'd compare the Kia Spectra to a Chevy Aveo, myself. Ugh. Reply
strikeback03 - Thursday, August 13, 2009 - linkIn the US at least, the MSRP for the Genesis Coupe with Track Package is higher than the base 370Z, and even the Nismo Z is only ~$9k higher. So unless Hyundai is already kicking in rebates or Nissan dealers are charging significantly more than MSRP, you have to drop all the way back to the base 2.0T coupe to get close to a $20k difference to a 370Z coupe. Reply
JarredWalton - Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - linkI added the "Accent" part after Hyundai. My mom had an original Hyundai Excel hatchback... thing was horrible, but for some reason she loved it. I was so happy when it got totaled! :-) Reply
RandomUsername3245 - Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - linkNot to pick nits, but you say "Hopefully we will see some improvement with Windows 7, but so far Windows is still an order of magnitude behind OS X."
An order of magnitude is defined as a factor of 10x. According to the three bar charts, the Macbook really doesn't beat the Windows laptops by 10x. (Sure it does beat the Clivo D901C by an order of magnitude on the last test, but that's hardly a basis for this type of general statement.) Realistically, the Macbook is beating the competition by no more than 2-3x.
I'd say your statement is inaccurate by nearly an order of magnitude :) Reply
blackshard - Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - linkTake the "order of magnitude" as a "step further". MacOS X is a step further in power handling, expecially when the system is idling. Reply
RandomUsername3245 - Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - linkNow that would be an interesting technical analysis article -- compare the different idle power states of something like the Studio 16 and the Macbook Pro & see exactly where the differences are. Reply
balancedthinking - Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - linkI do not agree with the conclusion.
Everything you can do with the Intel system, you can do with the AMD system too and i highly doubt anybody would notice a difference with normal applications.
That subjective "snappier" of yours sounds like marketing bullshit. Browsing and loading apps is limited by the harddrive, not the cpu.
On the other hand, Intel can not do blueray via HDMI and accelerate HD content and encoding. You totally missed that one in the whole article.
WORLD OF WARCFRAFT is playable with the AMD system but it is not with the Intel system.
Why do you recommend spending an extra 80$ to artifically limit the capability to do different tasks?
You are constantly downplaying the advantage of a good igp and overestimate the importance of the cpu.
You will not notice the difference in cpu performance but you will notice the missing capability to play accelerated HD content via HDMI and to play games on the intel system. Reply
Wellsoul2 - Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - linkI feel the same way...the intel graphics aren't good enough.
Another test I'd like to see...can it play a 1280x720 video in Itunes? If you like to play music vids this is a big deal.
For what I do better video at a cheaper price beats Intel.
Your conclusion isn't right. If I want super cheap best hardware
I'd go for the AMD with better video.
I'd rather be able to play a Youtube HD video and MMO game.
To me..future internet leans toward better video not cpu.
Seriously..can I play back an episode of NCIS in HD on the Intel?
(I'm pretty sure I can on the AMD..just by the numbers)
JarredWalton - Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - linkSee, you people are making assumptions here - assumptions that aren't entirely correct. Besides the fact that Blu-ray support isn't a real concern on a $500 notebook (are you really going to spend $150 more to get that feature on a budget offering?), video playback is a big can of worms.
Notice the x264 720p battery life test... I couldn't tell a difference between the two in terms of image quality. x264 1080p on the other hand showed some real problems on the the Intel setup (periodic dropped frames and loss of A/V sync). So AMD wins, right? Well, that's using a 1080p movie on a 768p panel, so I'm not sure it's really that important. However, Hulu (in 480p) was better on the Intel setup than the AMD, typically running 24FPS compared to 18FPS. So chalk up a win for Intel as well.
The real problem is that you people are reading my opinion on the platforms as a 100% statement, and then you're giving your opinion and saying I'm wrong. Read what I wrote and you'll see I'm more than willing to admit there are benefits to the AMD platform.
After personally using both of these laptops for the better part of a month (three weeks of intense testing), given the choice I wouldn't hesitate to take the Intel NV58 over the AMD NV52 (and spend the extra $80). That's because I don't care about WoW or a few specific tests where I can make sure AMD comes out on top. Again, what percentage of laptop users actually play 3D games on a regular basis - or at all?
If you really care about such things, then of course there are far better options than an Intel IGP laptop. There are also FAR BETTER choices than an ATI HD 3200 IGP laptop. I mentioned one in the gaming section, the http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8...">Acer Aspire AS6920-6898. At $650 it will beat the pants off of either laptop in gaming, probably offer slightly worse battery life than the NV52, and have overall performance that's equal to or slightly better than the NV58 elsewhere - and it will handle all the video stuff at least as well as the NV52.
I figure most people will go into a budget laptop purchase with a set of requirements. Unless gaming and 1080p video playback are in the list of requirements, the Intel platform will offer a better overall experience. If gaming and 1080p video are desired, you can choose between barely adequate gaming performance at $500, or you can more than triple your gaming performance for $650. And frankly, the gaming experience on a GeForce 9500M GS still leaves a lot to be desired. Reply
balancedthinking - Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - linkDid I miss something? Is not the conclusion of a review meant to be neutral and objektive? Instead you are advertising your completely biased opinion which reads like an Intel commercial!
These low cost notebooks are often bought by families (mums) or students. Both groups like to play casual games and use their notebooks for entertainment.
On the other hand you have professionals like writers or business guys, (YOU!!!). These guys do not need capable graphics and often do not care about cost so you will find 1000$ subnotebooks in this range. Battery life and mobility are the key factors for this group.
You are really telling us NOBODY plays 3D games at all on their laptop? What a shame you are writing for anand!
So if you do not care about graphics, HDMI and HD content, it is up to you but articles are meant to be neutral and not biased towards a company. This one reads like an Intel commercial. "We have better battery life and the faster cpu, nobody needs graphics"
Also very funny telling your readers: "Intel IGP sucks but HD 3200 still sucks to so it makes no difference" that is a real bad excuse and is in fact untrue. But that is the typical marketing reaction, just downplay where the competition is good.
The HD 3200 is perfect for casual gaming like spore, world of warcraft, the sims 2/3 and a lot of older games that are real fun to play at lan party like warcraft 3, counterstrike, call of duty, battlefield or flatout.
All these games are playable quite well on the AMD system but NOT on the Intel system. "barely adequate" is just marketing bullshit by Intel and a really sad excuse to downplay the huge advantage of ATI and Nvidia IGPs vs. Intel IGPs
Of course 1080p matters. Never thought of pluging your notebook in your big flatscreen via HDMI and playing the latest blockbuster? Reply
tempestor - Thursday, August 13, 2009 - linkGreat article Jarred!
As opposed to "balancedthinking" i think your conclusion was even too neutral!
It is great for me because i know a lot about computers and know what i want from my notebook but an average Joe would have a problem choosing a notebook.
Average Joe would prefer a straight recommendation at the end and not something like: model A is good, but model B is good too. As if you don`t want to say anything bad about either of them?
But then again: average Joe doesn`t read your website i guess.
Sorry for my bad english, i am a bit rusty, but i wanted to reply because of this "balancedthinking" guy who is completely unbalanced.
Guess you`ll never satisfy everyone :)
Best regards, M. Reply
balancedthinking - Thursday, August 13, 2009 - linkInteresting you said exactly nothing about the stuff i critizised. I also do not get what you want to tell us.
Instead you told us "I know a lot about computers". Well, good for you :-)
It is like comparing a SUV with a Prius -> if there is no clear answer the reviewer should not force a clear answer on personal habits and bias.
tempestor - Thursday, August 13, 2009 - linkI disagree with your implication that Jarred is biased.
Jarred could as well give us raw numbers only and everyone can make it`s own conclusion. Why bother with whole article then?!
Since i wrote that i think Jarred`s article is great, you can assume my conclusions based on his raw numbers are very similar to his. That is why i didn`t write them down.
Quote: "Intel has much better battery life, but that's only one aspect of the overall equation and there are definitely areas where AMD has the advantage over Intel." - biased? I don`t think so. Clear answer? I don`t think so.
Quote: "When it comes to 3D graphics, however, the AMD solution is clearly superior to Intel's anemic IGP." - biased? Sure! but only because it is cut from the context of the paragraph. Clear answer? Yep! and the one favouring AMD-based solution.
Quote: "... so ultimately YOU need to decide whether YOU want to have better battery life or if YOU would prefer improved graphics." - biased? No. Clear answer? No.
I could quote most of his "the final word" here to show you.
What Jarred did in his conclusion is: he wrote it grey! Not black and white. And now you complain it is black... or white (i.e. favoring one side)??
balancedthinking - Thursday, August 13, 2009 - linktypical case of quoting out of context....
If those qoutes would have been everything Jarred wrote, I would not be complaining.
but he also wrote:
"Intel also wins in application performance, with noticeably snappier CPU performance."
snappier? Loading Apps and browsing is limited by the harddrive, not the cpu -> marketing nonsense
"ATI's HD 3200 may be over twice as fast on average compared to Intel's GMA 4500MHD, but that's a lot like beating a Kia Spectra with a Hyundai on the racetrack."
Clearly downplayig the huge advantages of a ATI or Nvidia IGP over an inferior Intel IGP. He is basically saying that the AMD IGP is a lot faster than the Intel IGP but still useless and that is just untrue, period.
"As far as we're concerned, laptops - especially entry-level laptops - need to function as a mobile computer first and foremost. By that criterion, Intel has the clearly better mobile platform. Faster CPUs that draw less power and provide better battery life rate a lot higher in our book than barely adequate gaming performance"
That is his biased opinion as a professional writer that does not play games. 500$ full featured 15.4 notebooks are no mobility tipewriters with a focuss on battery live for professional journalists. They are bought by families and students and often replace desktops.
"That's because I don't care about WoW or a few specific tests where I can make sure AMD comes out on top. Again, what percentage of laptop users actually play 3D games on a regular basis - or at all?"
He does not care about casual gaming, he does not care about 3D games on laptops and he even dares to state that everyone is like him. I call that arrogant.
"If you really care about such things, then of course there are far better options than an Intel IGP laptop. There are also FAR BETTER choices than an ATI HD 3200 IGP laptop."
Again completely downplaying the advantages of ATI and Nvidia IGPs to convince the reader, even though they are a lot better than Intel IGP do not cut it, which is untrue and biased.
He also completely ignores the HD content features AMD can provide and Intel can not. Why is ION such a big thing for Nvidia? HD is important for the average joe and Jarred completely ignores the fact and does not even mention it. Reply
JarredWalton - Thursday, August 13, 2009 - linkApplication load times and browsing are NOT limited by the hard drive unless you have extremely fast systems or are loading multiple items at once. I have tested this, and the NV58 boots Vista 25% faster than the NV52, and various other applications also load faster (though 25% when you're talking 10 seconds isn't as noticeable as 55 vs. 69 seconds). SSDs would help here, sure, but you don't put a $200+ SSD in a $500 laptop. You pretend to be unbiased, but you don't know what you're talking about. Have YOU used and tested two essentially identical laptops from AMD and Intel, side by side? NO! But we're supposed to take your word over a published writer that has. Makes me wonder if you're working at an AMD facility... or perhaps working for a competitor. After all, AMD has some facilities in Germany.
I am not downplaying ATI's superior IGP, but rather putting it into context. It's much better than something that doesn't even try to play games. However, it's only a "huge advantage" IF YOU PLAY GAMES. If you never load up a 3D game (like my wife, brothers, sisters, parents, friends, etc.) then having the "huge advantage" really means that you're using more power, getting less battery life, and gaining NO BENEFIT WHATSOEVER!
"That is his biased opinion as a professional writer that does not play games."
Way to be a tool. I've played and beaten Fallout 3, Oblivion, Assassin's Creed, all the Half-Life games, Bioshock, The Witcher, Mass Effect, the two Penny Arcade Adventures, and others just in the past year or two. There are tons of other games I have not yet completed but I have spent numerous hours playing them (GRID, FEAR/FEAR2, Riddick: Dark Athena, Far Cry 2, STALKER: Clear Sky, Empire: Total War, Gears of War, Company of Heroes, all of the Call of Duty titles, World of Goo....) I started playing games on a Magnavox when I was six (back in 1980) and moved to a C-64 when I was 10. I've been playing PC games since the 286 era and the original Wing Commander, X-Wing, and Sierra adventures. I've played every Warcraft game, Starcraft, Command and Conquer, Age of Empires, and too many other titles to list. BUT I'm a "writer that does not play games." Way to make an assumption that is not only blatantly false, but it's not even backed up by the article. Do you think someone that doesn't play games would test EIGHTEEN recent titles on two laptops that are clearly not targeted at the gamer?
The fact is that I play enough games that I'm willing to tell the truth and let people know that playing games on a slow, underpowered IGP is a lousy experience. If all you have for gaming is a $500 laptop, I doubt that: A) You're a gamer, and B) You'll like playing games on that laptop. Go buy a Nintendo DS and you'll have more fun, or else read a book and don't worry about gaming - just like millions of people.
The only thing that might be "non-gamer" about me is that I don't play World of Warcraft (or any other MMO). Considering there are hundreds of millions of "gamers" in the world and yet only 15 million (give or take) that play WoW and other MMOs, again I think it's safe to say plenty of people don't play such games. I'm not interested in getting started in the MMO scene either, as I have a life I'm quite happy with. If I could test an MMO performance without an account, I would do so, but I'm not going to spend $15 per month per MMO when I don't enjoy that style of game.
Who are you to say what a $500 laptop is supposed to be? I've given a list of what it CAN be. It can be everything a student or businessman needs, and in that case it would be substantially better without an AMD CPU (right now). It can do everything a family needs as well. Can it do everything a family *wants* though? That depends on the family, and clearly it can't be a one-size-fits-all gaming solution. 25% of games that I tested can't run acceptably on the AMD setup. But that doesn't matter; what matters is that it can run games better than Intel's IGP. You know who really cares about that? AMD marketing, because they can tell people their platform is actually "better" in certain areas.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8...">Here's a $600 alternative (using ATI graphics)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8...">Here's a $500 alternative (using an NVIDIA IGP)
Both should more or less equal the AMD NV52 in gaming while still offering better CPU performance -- and probably battery life. Case closed. Reply
balancedthinking - Thursday, August 13, 2009 - linkWhat has this discussion to do with me beeing located in germany? Nice work looking up my IP btw. Am I not allowed to critisize you because I am not american? What kind of excuse ist that?
Am I not allowed to critisize you because the EU fined Intel for ripping of european customers? Am I not allowed to critisize you because AMDs foundry spin of is located in germany at the moment, while building a new fab in new york? Is that your excuse?
After all, AMD is an american company and the funny thing is, I am neither on the payroll of AMD and also do not write for a competitor.
Still I like underdogs and I do not like underdogs beeing treated unfairly. I also own an AMD Laptop with HD 3200 and I have too much fun playing with it to let you deceive other customers into spending MORE money to get a crippled IGP, a few percent battery life and cpu performance.
How many students do you know? I know plenty and the MAJORITY only has a laptop and no desktop. There are also A LOT of students who can not afford a 1000$ gaming laptop but they definitely have fun to play counter strike with their mates.
You know who cares about a few percent battery life and cpu performance? Intel marketing, because they can tell people their plattform is actually "better" in certain areas.
Sound familiar huh?
regarding your "alternatives".
The 500$ one only has a T4200, your review is about a T6500. You can not tell if the T4200 has an advantage over the AMD system regarding battery life and performance! It definitely will be slower than the T6500 and the Nvidia IGP will not help the battery life, neither will the T4200.
It also has no HDMI, only VGA. So no fun with family and friends showing them your latest vacation pictures on the big flatscreen.
The 8200M G is also a very old IGP that is a lot slower than the HD 3200 (3dmark 06 1000 vs. 1600 points) and has no HD content features.
The 600$ alternative also has the slower and more power hungry T4200. The HD 4330 is faster than the HD 3200 but not that much (2600 vs. 1600 points 3dmark 06). On the other hand, it is a dedicated graphics solution so I highly doubt that the battery life with the T4200 will be any better than the gateway AMD system. HDMI is also missing!
So you pay an extra 100$ to loose the HDMI port and get the same battery life and cpu performance the AMD system has for 500$. The gpu is better but it will cost you 20% extra. Reply
strikeback03 - Friday, August 14, 2009 - linkI just had to point this one out:
You state that the 8200M is a "lot slower than the HD 3200". 1000/1600=0.625, or in words the 8200M gives 62.5% the score of the HD 3200.
You then state that "the HD 4330 is faster than the HD 3200 but not that much". 1600/2600=0.615, or in words the HD 3200 gives 61.5% the score of the HD 4330, or in other words a larger gap than between the HD 3200 and the "lot slower" 8200M. Reply
scientia - Thursday, August 13, 2009 - linkI have to agree. The "review" bears no connection to reality. I use an HP Pavillion with a 2.0 Ghz AMD mobile Athlon 64 and Radeon 200 M grapics everyday. The notion that a notebook with a bit more than twice as much CPU doesn't have enough is ludicrous.
I also have an HP Pavillion Centrino system with a 2.0 Ghz Pentium M. The two systems have very similar CPU power but the Centrino definitely has worse graphics. For example, I have to reduce the resolution on my AMD system with playing against it on Warcraft 3 with LAN and the Centrino is unable to run Civ 4 which runs fine even on my older AMD notebook.
The CPU in my notebook spends the great majority of its time running at 800 - 1000 Mhz so the extra CPU power on the Intel system will not be noticeable except in benchmarks. Whose leg are you trying to pull, Mr. Walton, when you claim that Intel system feels snappier? Reply
JarredWalton - Thursday, August 13, 2009 - linkA 2.0GHz Pentium M with GMA 900 graphics is a different era, I'm sorry to inform you, just as a Radeon 200M is a different beast than the HD 3200. Do not make the mistake of thinking nothing has changed during the past four years, because it has.
As I pointed out, the last time I tested an Intel IGP in a large selection of games (GMA 950), it failed to load 2/3 of the titles. The GMA 4500 now loads over 3/4 of titles. Even two years ago, Intel's IGP was about 1/4 the performance of the ATI and NVIDIA IGPs. Now (in games where drivers are working), the advantage is less than 100%.
Discussing notebooks from the past is a true disconnect from "reality". Please look at current offerings - as I have done in this review - if you want to talk about the advantages and disadvantages of the various platforms. Reply
tempestor - Thursday, August 13, 2009 - linkThis is fun! :)
I have no idea from what hat you pulled Germany. OK, you are from Germany, cool, i am from Europe too - Slovenia, but i don`t think Jarred with his remark (fabs in Germany) meant anything "racist".
Anyway - my quotes were carefully picked - so you can see i wrote some favoring AMD too! Not what you did. You only listed quotes favoring Intel. Bad boy! And i did write that one of my quotes was out of context... you really don`t have to repeat that.
Some time ago a friend of mine had to choose between two notebooks very similar to the ones compared in this article. Yes, i did recommend him Intel version, but he wanted to save 30 EUR (cca 50 USD) and picked AMD version. Is he happy with his choice? Yes. But he NEVER uses his computer on battery and he doesn`t care about how fast some page in web browser loads. Oh... and he doesn`t play games either or watch HD movies. So i guess AMD option is ok for him. And Intel would be ok too!
About "snappier" - you will know the meaning of this word when it hits you. And i can tell you - i have a WD 3200BJKT drive now in my notebook and the performance is up by 20% at least (according to original WD 1600BEVS or something HDD (a shitty 160 gb 5400 rpm drive)). So yes, HDD has impact on how fast things load (OS, webpages, games,...) - note that Jarred.
About games - if you KNOW you can`t play some game on a notebook is sometimes better than to KNOW you can`t play it good. Meaning: playing some game on a slow computer gives you wrong impression of the game thus not liking it. So it is better to not play it at all.
I don`t think graphics is HUGE advantage for AMD. It is like bread - it feeds you, but the taste is plain!!!
HD playback: average Blue-Ray movie in Slovenia costs around 40-50 EUR. Do you really think a person that spends 500 USD (cca 320 EUR) would regularly watch HD movies on that notebook? I don`t think so.
Don`t get me wrong about underdogs. I really like AMD`s graphics division. I think they are way better than nVidia. But glory days of their CPU division are loooooooong gone. And computers are still mostly about CPU, not GPU.
JarredWalton - Thursday, August 13, 2009 - linkYour being in Germany (where AMD has facilities) is suspect. I make a point of checking IP addresses for people that apparently have blinders on, considering guerrilla marketing tactics have been employed by many. "Am I not allowed to critisize you because the EU fined Intel for ripping of european customers?" What does the EU and Intel have to do with criticizing me? Whether or not you work for AMD is still unknown, as obviously you wouldn't admit it.
You blame me for bias but say you like to root for the underdog. "Rooting" for someone is the definition of bias. I went into this expecting nothing but curious as to the results. I did not expect 25% better battery life, though the general performance and GPU results were pretty much a given. Concrete numbers are always good, even if they hurt your feelings since you own an HD 3200 laptop.
I love how 28% more battery life has become "a few percent". Nice blinders. I like how 25% faster performance on average (outside of games) is also meaningless. The Pentium T4200 shouldn't be much slower than the T6500, http://www.anandtech.com/bench/default.aspx?p=67&a...">as these desktop results show. The loss of 5% clock speed and 1MB L2 results in a drop of 5-10%. Power requirements should not change appreciably, as it's still a 45nm chip and Intel doesn't have the advanced C-states on the T6500 or T4200.
I have already stated (repeatedly) that the NV52 at $500 is the better solution for entry-level mobile gaming. It is not without compromises, but if basic gaming is that important and you can't spend a dollar more it's the way to go. I feel strongly that people who are so concerned with gaming performance will be better served by reassessing their needs and wants; do they really need the extra features or are they buying in because of marketing? Do they really need a laptop at all, considering a gaming desktop for $500 (including OS and LCD) can easily outperform laptops costing twice as much?
I'm done with this conversation. You repeatedly exaggerate areas that benefit your pro-AMD stance and downplay everything else. Enjoy your AMD HD 3200 laptop, but just because you think it's great doesn't mean it is the best solution for everyone. It's one possible option out of dozens of competing notebooks and platforms. Reply
tempestor - Thursday, August 13, 2009 - linkbtw: article not working from page 8 on.
M. Reply
JarredWalton - Thursday, August 13, 2009 - linkNot sure what happened, but somehow when I tried to add some charts last night the "gaming" page got blown away. I have corrected the error now. Reply
JarredWalton - Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - linkNews flash: any article written is going to be opinion. Intel's opinion and AMD's opinion doesn't count for squat with me; I gave you a rundown of the market as I see it, after using a variety of laptops. Objective and neutral doesn't mean I have to be nice to a company offering an overall inferior solution. Unbiased certainly does not mean I have to root for the underdog.
You think gaming is far more important in a budget laptop than I do, and then you keep trying to put in me a corner that I'm not in. I don't think "NOBODY plays 3D games on laptops"; I think there are plenty of people that do so, but that there are even more people that don't. Is it "marketing BS" (to use your phrase) to promote gaming as something everyone should look for in a laptop, especially when it reduces battery life by 25%? Your "balancedthinking" reads more like anti-Intel marketing, while my article has no problems pointing out the shortcomings of both AMD and Intel. Which is actually the "balanced" opinion?
Is Spore playable on the HD 3200? Yes. Is it a great experience? Not at the level of other laptops that have better GPUs and only cost slightly more. Does it also run on the Intel IGP? Yes, at roughly half the performance of the HD 3200, but still providing playability at 800x600. You're saying twice the performance at 800x600 is a great thing (ATI HD 3200), but six times the level of performance is meaningless?
"Barely adequate" is not an Intel marketing statement, that's my opinion backed by cold, hard numbers. There are plenty of games that do not run acceptably on any current IGP (Mass Effect, Riddick: Dark Athena, and Call of Duty World at War all fall into that category, and Assassin's Creed might as well be there considering it looks like crap at minimum detail settings). Many others hover around 20 FPS on the HD 3200. Mouse cursor movement at 20FPS is sluggish and choppy, making for a less than enjoyable experience. I played and tested quite a few games on these laptops, and at best performance (and quality) was acceptable (Company of Heroes, UT3, and similar games that aren't too taxing).
Considering I can find laptops that handle gaming at native LCD resolution with roughly twice the performance of the HD 3200 (or only slightly higher performance but with increased detail) and it only increases price by 30% (that's 30% more cost for 300% more gaming performance), it's very limiting to suggest that people should only consider entry-level IGP solutions.
Here's an unbiased conclusion for you:
Intel has the better mobile solution at pretty much all price points - i.e. better battery life with acceptable performance (Atom) or better battery life and performance (Core 2).
AMD has the better mobile gaming solution for less than ~$600, but it will still struggle with many 3D games and there are titles that it simply can't run. Casual gamers should be fine.
Intel + NVIDIA or ATI GPU is the better mobile gaming solution for anyone spending more than $650, and in fact will win in every category except battery life tests (where it's bested by Intel-based laptops with IGPs).
Amazingly enough, that's the condensed version of what I said in the conclusion.
FWIW, QuickTime 1080p movie trailers run better on the Intel NV58, and so do YouTube and Google videos. ATI's drivers are better with resolution support, but ATI also doesn't provide generic reference drivers for laptops so the NV58 currently runs with drivers that are six months old. GMA 4500 should handle Blu-ray playback, but you'd need an appropriate application (i.e. PowerDVD Ultra) and a Blu-ray drive, which is not something most people add to a $500 laptop. Reply
balancedthinking - Thursday, August 13, 2009 - linkFunny:
"You think gaming is far more important in a budget laptop than I do, and then you keep trying to put in me a corner that I'm not in. I don't think "NOBODY plays 3D games on laptops"; I think there are plenty of people that do so, but that there are even more people that don't."
look at your previous post
"Again, what percentage of laptop users actually play 3D games on a regular basis - or at all?"
You do not even remeber what you wrote only hours ago...
I am not talking about playing the latest blockbusters like "cod world at war" on a laptop with IGP. I am talking about those 2-5 year old classics that still shine and are very playable on the amd system and just not on the Intel system like Age of Empires 3, Anno, Warcraft 3, Flatout, Tomb Raider, Dungeon Siege, gothic, counter strike, half life 2, flatout and many more.
Also very funny you bring up Spore as a game where the Intel IGP is supposed to do quiet well.
"Does it also run on the Intel IGP? Yes, at roughly half the performance of the HD 3200, but still providing playability at 800x600."
Intel is only able to reach half the performance because they leave out a lot of effects and it just looks horrible on an Intel IGP.
http://blogs.amd.com/patmoorhead/2009/01/23/why-sp...">http://blogs.amd.com/patmoorhead/2009/0...may-look... Reply
strikeback03 - Thursday, August 13, 2009 - link"Again, what percentage of laptop users actually play 3D games on a regular basis - or at all?"
Doesn't mean that no users play 3D games, it means that the majority never do, some small percentage play infrequently, and some smaller percentage would regularly.
Also, an AMD blog is probably not the best place to look for a balanced view of an AMD/Intel comparison. Reply
flipmode - Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - linkAMD's mobile products have always been rebranded desktop products - which have always been rebranded server products. In the best cases, the CPUs run at lower voltages and lower speeds.
Intel has, interesting, done the opposite, as far as I can tell. They designed the Pentium M from the ground up for mobile, and turned that into Core 2 for the desktop, and turned that into Nahalem for the server.
This is all in spite of the fact that several years ago, AMD stated that it was placing mobile above desktop in terms of importance. But technology has a natural flow between the two poles of server and mobile, with desktop stuck in the middle. AMD chose to flow from high to low, Intel chose to flow from low to high. It seems that Intel's choice was the better one. Reply
blackshard - Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - linkApproximately it is true, but consider that these 65nm mobile AMD parts have absolutely no correspondence in desktop market. These are Family 11h processors and are a mixture of old K8 (execution units) and newer K10 processors (memory controller, power management).
Actually Athlon QLs is the least attractive from a performance and power management point of view. I hope Walton will get some ZM/RM processors from AMD to make a clear comparison. Reply
mircix - Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - linkOk. Great article and I have a simple question. I am interested mostly in Avid, witch is a professional video editing software, and 3ds max. 3ds for movie CGI. I'm not looking for a desktop's working station performace, but something decent. I've runned 3ds 2009 on a 1.6 gh and intel gms 950, hp pavilion dv100 and works. but slow. So, for closure: 3ds max and Avid : AMD or Intel? Thank you Reply
jamawass - Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - linkAlthough the conclusions of the article are correct, the graphical charts for gaming comparisons are sneakily designed to minimize the tremendous advantage AMD has in gaming performance over Intel. If this performance is as unimportant as the author states ( Kia vs Hyundai) why not represent it in bar chart form like all the other results? As another poster said, testing games like the Sims or WoW would be much more meaningful on these platforms than FPS.
I don't think anyone buys a laptop of this price for gaming but I've owned an AMD one like it and on overseas trips I would take FarCry along and fire it up for some casual gaming something I wouldn't be able to do on a similarly spec'd Intel laptop.
We know Intel has the superior mobile design but objectivity would be nice so independent decisions can be made as to how important gaming is to a potential buyer. Reply
IHateMyJob2004 - Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - linkI really want a laptop for wordprocessing. All I want is a cheaper (processing power not needed) laptop with a high resolution. 1920x1200 is what I want but this also seem to be a segment that Every manufacturer is ignoring. This is how a utilitarian wants to use alaptop and I'm sure I am not the only one out there.
And I agree with what you said. Unelss the primary use for a laptop is games and movie watching, the 16:9 and 16:10 ratio screen is stupid. Widescrees are in, but I view them as short screens. And short screen suck for word processing and software develeopment. Give me a 5:3 ratio screen! Bring them back!
The only thing I am really curious about in terms of performance is how much better a low cost laptop is if it has a dedicated viddeo card with its own memory versus a laptop where the video card uses system memory. I'm mostly concerned with any lag that is associated with the video card due to how it uses memory.
strikeback03 - Thursday, August 13, 2009 - linkSee, plenty of people like the widescreens for writing tasks, as you can have 2 800px columns of text on a 1920px screen side by side. I don't like the current move to 16:9 from 16:10 though, that is obviously a step back. Reply
mczak - Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - linkThis article clearly shows that AMD desperately needs updated mobile platform (Tigris). In terms of chipset won't be much of an update (rs880m/sb710) but finally 45nm cpu (Caspian - probably same as regor for mobile market). Won't be enough to close the gap (those 65nm Athlons didn't do too well against 65nm C2D neither) but at least something more competitive (so together with the price advantage and better graphics maybe a competitive package). Reply
mczak - Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - linkforgot to mention, that platform better show up soon. Against Intel's Calpella platform (with Arrendale cpu) it will look quite bad I assume, and even the graphics advantage could disappear. Fortunately for AMD, Arrendale shouldn't show up before 2010, though that's not that much time left... Reply
weeaboo - Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - linkI don't play it personally, but I imagine that one of the most common game people play on their non-gaming laptop is World of Warcraft. On this kind of platform I think performance figures on the MMOs of yesteryear would be more interesting than a plethora of FPS games. Reply
7Enigma - Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - linkAgreed. People are not going to be gaming on the latest (or even last-gen FPS') but most certainly would probably be doing MMO games. And of all the games The Sims (2 or 3) should be included. That is probably the largest non-MMO game out there for the casual gamer, of which these laptops are perfectly suited. Reply
KidneyBean - Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - linkOr how about Source games like Half-Life 2, Team Fortress 2, and Counter-Strike 2?
Those should run faster than the latest FPS. Reply
hyc - Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - linkVery few vendors actually sell comparable models of AMD and Intel notebooks. I don't think HP's dv5z (which I own, and is already discontinued) is really comparable to their dv5t.
And I've yet to find anyone selling an AMD laptop with 15.4" WUXGA screen. So far the only possibilities have been Dell or Lenovo, and they're all Intel. It's pathetic that AMD has the best graphics cards now but you can't get an AMD combo paired with the best screens.
Show me an AMD notebook with 15.4" WUXGA LED-backlit screen. (Oh, and backlit keyboard too, please.) I'll buy it. I'm sick of seeing AMD designs getting the poor cousin treatment, I want all the same top notch feature choices the Intel models get... Reply
strikeback03 - Thursday, August 13, 2009 - linkYou realize you can get an AMD discrete GPU with an Intel CPU/chipset, right? Which this article has shown that the GPU is really the only part of the AMD system worth owning. Reply
cactusdog - Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - linkNice review, it answered some questions i had. Reply
cfaalm - Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - link
If you really want improved battery life, you'd be looking at an Intel platform with a high-capacity battery - or a MacBook.
Talking about a price premium over a $ 500 - 580 notebook:
damianrobertjones - Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - linkOr if Dailytech really isn't one sided towards Apple, then maybe the reviewer could also add a Linux build to the scene.. Standard laptop, linux.. what would the battery life be?????
hyc - Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - linkLikely worse on the AMD system. At least, the open source ATI drivers' support for power management still doesn't handle all of the power save features that the chipset offers.
medi01 - Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - linkWhy not compare to intel notebook with nvidia graphic card? Reply
samspqr - Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - linkthe labels on the x axis of the power consumption graph are completely deceiving Reply
samspqr - Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - link(I mean the one on page 5) Reply
JarredWalton - Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - linkAs mentioned in the text, the graphs on pages 5 though 8 use a different format. I chose the format because I feel it provides a quick way of looking at relative performance. The percent labels aren't particularly meaningful, since the bars are not in actual percentages (though the bar sizes are). Reply
Spacecomber - Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - linkAlthough I found the article interesting, comparing the advantages of intel based laptops to amd based laptops, I have to agree that the choice of how to represent the data in the charts doesn't really work for me. I understand what the notion was, representing the data as a kind of tug of war between the two platforms, but the utility used to create these charts didn't provide the means to make this clear. I'm a strong believer that charts should be intuitively obvious and that you should be able to interpret them without looking at anything other than what is contained in the chart.
These charts have an additional problem when it comes to the representation of the gaming data (or any data where the same measurement unit is being used). You can no longer easily compare performance for the same platform across different games (or whatever the instances being measure are). For example, it is not easy to see in these graphs that some games don't have playable framerates, regardless of the platform.
Anyway, while I'm sympathetic with the effort to try something different, I didn't find that it helped me to comprehend the data any better, and it seemed to be more of a hinderance, instead. Reply
JarredWalton - Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - linkThe problem is two-fold: I had a bunch of data to represent, and I didn't want a ton of small charts. I debated just putting in a table, but that seemed a poor way of doing things - especially since I can show the number labels and you get the chart plus table effect. The issue is compounded by units that are not easy to chart with each other - i.e. PCMark05 has some scores in single digits, some in the tens, and some in the hundreds. Do I break PCMark05 scores into 16 different charts, or does the "100% Stacked Bar" chart option provide all the necessary detail?
I'm inclined to go with the latter as a reasonable compromise between the various options, and let people spend a few more minutes looking at the data to draw conclusions. It's great when a chart can be "intuitively obvious", but there are times when complex data requires a more complex chart. The net result is that I had a choice between more aesthetically pleasing pages and a single summary chart, or I could make dozens of smaller charts and get a cluttered page.
I understand some people won't like the representation, but I've been playing with the data for the past hour and there's really no option that's as succinct. Some graphs (gaming) lend themselves to other options, but the PCMark05 chart and Application Performance charts have to be split up, put in a table, or something else.
FWIW, I'll post alternative charts in a bit for those that really hate the current charts. However, I'm still a firm believer in requiring people to READ the text. I get the impression that many of the comments have only looked at a small portion of the text and are making a lot of assumptions - assumption which are, not surprisingly, incorrect. Reply
Wellsoul2 - Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - linkThe Chart is still backwards compared to the first article on
battery life. Idle is 111 minutes and DVD 242 minutes.
It's reversed from last article. Reply
JarredWalton - Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - linkSorry... not sure how that happened, other than sorting charts in Excel. For some reason, the top spreadsheet cell showed up on the bottom of the chart, and so I resorted. Apparently I missed the numbers at some point. I'll correct the chart shortly.... Reply
mczak - Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - linkHmm, what about the raw numbers which should show minutes runtime? Idle has lowest runtime, DVD playback largest. That definitely looks wrong... Reply
Wellsoul2 - Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - linkYes...looks like you reversed the numbers. Reply
whatthehey - Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - linkReading comprehension is a great thing!
"We are using a different format for the graphing than we used previously.... For this chart, equal performance is denoted by the 50% mark in the middle of the chart. A larger bar means better performance, and the numerical results (in minutes) are available for those that prefer raw numbers."
Ah, yes, the percentage marks are entirely misleading! Shame on you AnandTech for making people read! (FWIW, I had no issues reading and interpreting the graphs, but then I'm a computer programmer.) Reply
Ben90 - Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - link" quit looking ahead and pay attention to this paragraph! " You should have added that to the page before, my screen was already down in the chart when i read this :) Reply
KidneyBean - Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - linkIt's nice to see some humor in these articles. Nice to change it up. Reminds me of reading Mark Minasi tech books, and how much easier occasional humor makes it for me to read tech info. Reply
IntelUser2000 - Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - linkJarred, the 475MHz core clock on the GMA 4500 is wrong. That has been the clock speed for pre-launch platforms. The GM45's GMA 4500MHD runs at 533MHz. Minor mistake but still a mistake. Reply
HexiumVII - Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - linkCan anyone comment on the performance of Aero with comparing the G45 with the X3200? I had a tablet with an X3500 that was a bit clunky with Win7 Aero Beta. It got a little better with RC drivers, but still not as snappy as 2D mode or dedicated graphics. Reply
JarredWalton - Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - linkI didn't notice any issues with normal applications in Windows Vista, but I don't know about Win7 yet. I will try to find time to do a follow-up looking at Win7 performance, and from what I've heard it's overall better than Vista (Gary for instance has it running on a netbook and he's very happy, whereas he hated Vista on the same netbook). Intel's Win7 drivers are likely still a work in progress as well, but at least you can get regular IGP driver updates from Intel. Reply
JarredWalton - Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - linkAll I know is that GPU-Z reported the GMA 4500MHD as 475MHz. I would guess that either the utility is wrong (possible), or Intel gives vendors some leeway in the GPU/chipset clocks (also possible). If you have another utility that will be more reliable for determining the Intel IGP clock, let me know. Reply
IntelUser2000 - Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - linkJust take a look at the datasheet, its that simple: http://www.intel.com/Assets/PDF/datasheet/320122.p...">http://www.intel.com/Assets/PDF/datasheet/320122.p...
The GPU-Z utility is bad. It's nowhere near the CPU counterpart. That aside, Intel doesn't really give out reading the GPU clock easily, and the 475MHz was also what was used in the pre-launch(ie. beta) GM45 platforms.
I heard Everest is more accurate, but in terms of actually measuring, there probably isn't one that measures the Intel IGPs properly. Reply
IntelUser2000 - Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - linkhttp://www.beareyes.com.cn/2/lib/200810/13/335/gpu...">http://www.beareyes.com.cn/2/lib/200810/13/335/gpu...
Please see how G45(desktop version) shows on the GPU-Z. It should show similar thing to above, unless the newer version updated to change that its 800MHz.
In reality, it isn't really measuring the clock. Reply


text:
THE South-West Lakes Trust has received a royal endorsement for the second time in five years.
Gaining the Queen's Award for Enterprise in the Sustainable Development division, the recreational and environmental trust won the accolade as part of the Queen's Birthday Honours.
Evelyn Stacey, chief executive of the charity, said: "We're thrilled to have gained such high level accreditation for a second time in a competitive situation.
"Every employee, volunteer and trustee has had a hand in our success and can share this marvellous award with pride.
"It's also a great reflection of the skills and commitment of our local partners and contractors across three counties."
The Queen's Award was given to the charity for "undertaking initiatives directed at sustainability".
The citation adds: "Through implementing a development and procurement plan it has reduced fossil fuel usage, reduced leaflet printing, installed technology for efficiently drying wetsuits, and invested in solar power for heating water and fuelling a ferry.
"It has increased populations of endangered species and improved habitats at its sites.
"It has established educational and outreach activities to empower schoolchildren and people with reduced ability to explore natural and historic locations, and, through work experience, advanced employment prospects of disadvantaged groups."
Recognised for 'Sustainable Woodlands', the company has commissioned a plan for conserving ancient monuments.
Keith Bungay, chairman of the SWLT, said: "What a wonderful achievement for the team.
"Undoubtedly, the fundamental challenge for the Trust since its inception has been to sustain the balance between providing for public access and recreational opportunities, and conserving the many natural and cultural delights to be enjoyed on the 50 sites across the South-West for which it is responsible.
"To have received Royal recognition for a second time is the icing on the cake."
For more information about the trust visit www.swlakestrust. org.uk or call 01566-771930.

subset: commoncrawl


text:
So keep your eyes right over there ————> today and those who are covering the talks will have large chunks of details on the latest from the lockout … while I play golf, finally, thank freakin' heavens.
Haven't had a day off in at least three weeks, still have to do a Yankees live chat tonight (*Game 4, if necessary?) and maybe another chat tomorrow afternoon if CC comes through tonight … so I'm goin' golfin! Yee-ha!
See yas later.


text:
Human Services
Academic Year: 2009 – 2010
The M.A. degree in Human Services (HMS) is designed to provide advanced professional education for students who have an undergraduate education in human services or who have completed specific prerequisite courses to prepare them for study in the field. It is a multidisciplinary degree that prepares students to become competent as human services professionals for multiple roles and settings.
The degree contains core courses that teach skills and concepts needed by all human services professionals and integrates content from several academic concentrations to allow students to develop specific expertise. The concentrations are 1) alcoholism and substance abuse, 2) child and family studies, 3) gerontology, and 4) social services administration. Within some concentrations, students are able to obtain certification; within others, students may prepare for licensure. Students are prepared to practice with competency and confidence within all concentrations. Study in this degree program requires that students examine aspects of their past lives and family experiences in an effort to understand their beliefs, values, and biases. This self-awareness is necessary when working with vulnerable populations.
The degree program teaches students to appreciate contemporary and historic human characteristics, issues, and problems and to plan for the delivery of human services in the future. Courses teach students to design, assess, treat, plan for, advocate for, counsel with, manage, and collaborate with individuals, groups, or agencies needing and using human services.
The Human Services Program is accredited by the Council for Standards in Human Services Education. Illinois Alcohol and Other Drug Abuse Professional Certification Association, Inc., has accredited the alcohol and substance abuse concentration in the M.A. in Human Services.
Professional Development Sequence in Gerontology
The Human Services Program offers a 16-hour professional development sequence in gerontology. The sequence is designed for individuals who already have one graduate degree and are working in some capacity with the elderly or who otherwise desire or need basic graduate-level course work in gerontology. Contact the Human Services Program for more information.
Certificate in Alcohol and Substance Abuse
The program offers a graduate certificate in Alcohol and Substance Abuse to provide education to individuals who wish to become certified in the substance abuse counseling profession, but who do not wish to complete a formal degree program. On completion of the required 20 semester hours of courses, students may take the Certified Alcohol and Other Drug Abuse Counselor (CADC) exam through the Illinois Alcohol and Other Drug Abuse Professional Certification Association (IAODAPCA).
Certificate in Management of Nonprofit Organizations
In cooperation with the Department of Public Administration, the program has available a graduate certificate in the Management of Nonprofit Organizations. Refer to the Graduate Certificates section of this Guide for more information.
The graduate certificate in the Management of Nonprofit Organizations requires 20 hours of coursework. All courses are offered at night and on weekends. An individual may take these courses as a part-time student and earn the certificate without being formally enrolled in any degree program or may complete the certificate as part of a degree program.
Entrance requirements
Students must have a bachelor's degree, preferably with a foundation in the liberal arts with a GPA of 3.00. Prerequisites are a life-span development course and a research methods course with content consistent with the ones listed in the program requirements section.
For admission, students must submit a completed application, transcripts, two completed recommendation forms from professional or academic sources, and a personal statement detailing their reasons for seeking admission into the program.
Admission to the program is based on academic competence, interest and experience in helping others, and evidence of personal characteristics associated with success when working with people from vulnerable populations.
The Human Services faculty has a professional and ethical obligation to conduct continual assessment with students so they are aware of limitations that may impede their future success. Moreover, the faculty has an obligation not to admit or to remove from candidacy any student who does not meet these requirements.
Application materials are available at the Human Services Program Office and from the UIS Office of Admissions. The program admits students twice each year. Preference will be given to students who have application materials completed by September 15 for the spring semester and by February 15 for the fall semester.
Online Courses
The program offers an online M.A. in Human Services degree with a concentration in Social Services Administration. The core classes are offered online every other semester and are available to all students.
Grading policy
Graduate students must earn a grade of B or better in each course.
Master's closure
A master's project or thesis is required of all graduate majors. This project or thesis may focus on a practice issue, an empirical study, or a human service policy review. Two courses contained within the core (HMS 579 and HMS 580) are designed to foster students through this requirement. Once they complete HMS 579 in continuous enrollment and begin their closure exercises, students must be enrolled in HMS 580 (zero credit hours, one billable hour) each fall and spring semester until the master's project or thesis is completed.
The four-hour internship is designed to provide an opportunity for students to integrate knowledge and skills gained in courses into direct practice. The internship consists of intensive work experiences with supervision (100 work hours for each academic hour) in a human services environment (500 hours are required for students in the Alcoholism and Substance Abuse Concentration).
Students with three years of supervised full-time experience in human services may, in consultation with the academic advisor, petition to substitute four hours of regular course work for the internship.
Major requirements
The master's degree requires 44 hours of graduate-level courses.
Prerequisites (two courses) or the equivalent
* A course in either human behavior in the social environment or a course in life-span developmental psychology, and
* A course in either research methods or a course in statistics.
Core requirements (24 Hrs.)
HMS 501 Critical Perspectives in Human Services 4 Hrs.
HMS 502 Interviewing and Assessment Skills in Human Services 4 Hrs.
HMS 511 Social Policy and Human Services 4 Hrs.
HMS 516 Ethics and Professional Development 4 Hrs.
HMS 550 Internship 4 Hrs.
HMS 579 Advanced Research: Master's Project/Thesis Proposal 4 Hrs.
HMS 580 Master's Project/Thesis Continuing Enrollment
(0 credit hrs./1 billable hour each semester until completion)
Note: All courses are required unless otherwise noted.
Alcoholism and Substance Abuse (20 Hrs.)
Illinois Alcohol and Other Drug Abuse Professional Certification Association, Inc., has accredited the alcohol and substance abuse concentration in the M.A. in Human Services. Students who successfully complete this concentration may be eligible to take the certifying examination for IAODAPCA. Students seeking admission to this concentration must have a two-year history of sobriety.
HMS 521 Advanced Interviewing and Intervention 4 Hrs.
HMS 525 Alcoholism and Substance Abuse 3 Hrs.
HMS 526 Lab for Alcoholism and Substance Abuse Course 1 Hr.
HMS 527 Assessment and Treatment of Substance Abuse 4 Hrs.
HMS 528 Dual Diagnosis and Relapse Prevention 4 Hrs.
HMS 531 Drug Abuse in America: A Critical Perspective (elective) 4 Hrs.
or any course in Human Services
Child and Family Studies (20 Hrs.)
HMS 521 Advanced Interviewing and Intervention 4 Hrs.
HMS 525 Alcoholism and Substance Abuse 3 Hrs.
HMS 526 Lab for Alcoholism and Substance Abuse Course 1 Hr.
HMS 533 Child Abuse and Neglect 4 Hrs.
HMS 537 Treating Children from Diverse Populations 4 Hrs.
HMS 567 Models and Methods in Marriage and Family Treatment 3 Hrs.
HMS 569 Lab for Models & Methods in Marriage and Family Treatment 1 Hr.
Gerontology (20 Hrs.)
HMS 529 Perspectives on Aging 4 Hrs.
HMS 508 Psychology of Aging 4 Hrs.
HMS 563 Sociology of Death, Dying, and Bereavement 4 Hrs.
HMS 582 Aging and the Human Services 4 Hrs.
Students can select one course from the following list or an alternate course approved by the student's academic advisor.
HMS 538 Social Services Administration 4 Hrs.
HMS 588 Grant Writing in Human Services 4 Hrs.
The Human Services Program also offers a 16-hour professional development sequence in gerontology consisting of the following courses:
HMS 563 Sociology of Death, Dying, and Bereavement 4 Hrs.
HMS 508 Psychology of Aging 4 Hrs.
HMS 529 Perspectives on Aging 4 Hrs.
HMS 582 Aging and the Human Services 4 Hrs.
Social Services Administration online (20 Hrs.)
HMS 514 Staff Development and Supervision 4 Hrs.
HMS 538 Social Services Administration 4 Hrs.
HMS 584 Introduction to Nonprofit Management 4 Hrs.
HMS 588 Grant Writing in Human Services 4 Hrs.
Select four credit hours from the remaining courses:
BUS 541 Organizational Behavior 3 Hrs.
PAD 502 Organization Dynamics 4 Hrs.
PAD 505 Human Resource Management 4 Hrs.
PAD 544 Fund Raising for Public and Nonprofit Organizations 4 Hrs.
ACC 505 Financial Management for Nonprofit Organizations 4 Hrs.
PAD 543 Marketing for Public and Nonprofit Organizations 4 Hrs.
Master of Arts
Harry Berman, Neil Headman, Carolyn Peck, Denise Sommers
Associated Faculty: Martin Martsch, Sandra Mills
Emeritus Faculty: Rachell Anderson, Jeffrey Chesky, Rosamond Robbert, Michael Townsend
Associated Emeritus Faculty: Don Yohe
Phone: 217/206-6687
Email: email@example.com
Website: www.uis.edu/humanservices


text:
I was supposed to give a presentation at MinneBar a few weeks ago, but I ended up having to be out of town. I was pretty bummed as I really wanted to see a few of the presentations. But, lucky me, MinneBar has actually started posting presentations to YouTube. Woohoo, they're available at http://www.youtube.com/user/MinneStarMedia.
The one I think I was most interested in seeing is available right here, and I can embed it into my own site and watch it from here.
I will try and make the next one to do the presentation I'd planned on giving. This is a community I am very supportive of and love contributing to (although the next time someone uses "serial entrepreneur" as their job title I might not be able to suppress the eye roll + flutter combination – sry).
krypted May 16th, 2013
Posted In: Business, personal, public speaking


text:
The way these playoffs have unfolded so far, we'd be foolish to put anybody in the next round based on two games, right?
And, as distasteful as it might be to see that piece of carcillo, plus Hartnell and the Flys' ninth-string goalie play for the Cup, and as much as we might even be rooting for San Jose, there would be something very cool about having the Blackhawks (and 20-Cent) in the final.
They've been there before, obviously, but they haven't won a Cup since 1961, the longest drought in the NHL. They were in the finals in '62, '65, '71 and '73 — all as the Black Hawks, before the name was changed to one word.
And they've been to one final since '73.
You know, of course, that the other finals appearance for the Blackhawks had some bearing on the Rangers' 1994 Stanley Cup, right?
Because that 1991-92 Blackhawks team was coached by Mike Keenan, who would get himself bounced out of Chicago soon after. While in Chicago, Keenan developed an affinity for certain players: Steve Larmer, Stephane Matteau, Greg Gilbert, Brian Noonan and Mike Hudson — all of whom would pied-piper him to New York for the Cup season.
Something else you might recall about that '92 year. That was Mark Messier's first season in New York, and Adam Graves' first. And the Rangers won the Presidents' Trophy (after a brief strike threatened the end of the season and the playoffs). And it was also the year of the second-round debacle against defending champion Pittsburgh, where Graves broke Mario Lemieux's hand (and was disgustingly reviled as a thug/hit man by ignorant fans and media members across the continent) and where Mike Richter let in the Ron Francis goal from center ice, etc., and where the skids began to be greased for Roger Neilson's firing in the middle of the next season.
Anyway, to get back to the 'Hawks … they won 11 straight playoff games before the final. But they ran into a healed Mario and Jaromir Jagr and Tom Barrasso and Francis (not to mention Kevin Stevens and Ulf Samuelsson), plus Scotty Bowman. After the Rangers had taken a 2-1 lead in that second-round series, the Pens reeled off 11 straight wins themselves, including a sweep of the 'Hawks in the final.
Today's trivia: Name Chicago's two goalies in the '92 final.


text:
Collections at Harvard and other repositories, including the
Massachusetts Historical Society and the Boston Public
Library, will be digitized for the Colonial Archives of North
America project. These projects will make it possible to virtually
reunite Colonial-era documents that were scattered over time. Read
more about these projects in the online Harvard Gazette.
Still have questions? Family Tree Magazine's genealogy experts answer readers' research questions in each issue, and we also include genealogy Q&As in our weekly Genealogy Insider email newsletter.


text:
Morris County, Kansas
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Morris is a county in Kansas. It was formed in 1855 (as Wise) from the following county/ies: original . Morris began keeping marriage records in 1859. It began keeping land records in 1859, probate records in 1856 , and court records in 1860. For more information, contact the county at 501 W. Main, Council Grove 66846. On the attached map, Morris is located at H3 . Death records held by city clerk.
For information about the state of Kansas see Kansas Family History Research.


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UF's Jones out for season
Published: Monday, October 14, 2013 at 12:14 p.m.
Last Modified: Monday, October 14, 2013 at 5:19 p.m.
Florida sophomore running back Matt Jones is out for the season with a knee injury suffered at LSU, coach Will Muschamp announced today.
Saturday's game
No. 22 Florida (4-2) at No. 14 Missouri (6-0), 12:21 p.m.
TV: Fox
Radio: WRUF
"I hate it for Matt," Muschamp said at his weekly news conference on the UF campus. "He is a great young man. To have this setback is disheartening for all of us."
Jones is undergoing surgery today to repair a meniscus tear in his left knee, according to UF.
Redshirt junior Mack Brown and freshman Kelvin Taylor move up to one and two on depth chart, with sophomore Mark Herndon third, Muschamp said. Valdez Showers could get carries.
UF has suffered a rash of injuries since August, with seven players out for the season – five of them starters: receiver Andre DeBose (knee), offensive tackle Chaz Green (shoulder), QB Jeff Driskel (leg), defensive lineman Dominique Easley (knee) and Jones. Freshman linebacker Matt Rolin (knee) and freshman defensive back Nick Washington (shoulder) are also out.
"More than anything, I hate it for the young men," said Muschamp, who confirmed it's the worst year for injuries to one of his teams.
It has been an especially tough year for Jones, who missed time overcoming a viral infection. Jones finishes the season with 339 yards and two touchdowns in five games.
In other news, linebacker Ronald Powell has an ankle injury. Muschamp said he hopes to have Powell at practice Wednesday.
Also, punter Kyle Christy, a Ray Guy Award finalist last season, has been benched in favor of true freshman Johnny Townsend, Muschamp said.
"We've got to punt the ball better,'' Muschamp said.
Click back for more details.
Reader comments posted to this article may be published in our print edition. All rights reserved. This copyrighted material may not be re-published without permission. Links are encouraged.


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A CYCLIST was knocked over and his bike destroyed in an accident in York at the weekend.
The crash happened in Blossom Street, outside Reel Cinema, at 9.45am on Sunday.
Tom Mitchell said he was cycling along Blossom Street when he was involved in the accident, which he said saw him thrown into the windscreen of the Volvo.
While he escaped serious injury, his bike was badly damaged.
Mr Mitchell said: "I was attended to by an off-duty nurse and then a paramedic.
A number of passers by kindly stopped to help. I cycle several thousand miles a year and it's damaged my bike beyond repair and left me concussed and bruised with a number of aches and pains.
"I count myself lucky to have escaped serious injury."
Police remained at the scene for more than an hour.
The road was not closed, North Yorkshire Police confirmed.


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Moss' five-RBI night fuels A's seventh straight win
ANAHEIM -- Journeyman no more, Brandon Moss has found a home with the A's at first base.
And that's exactly where the slugger's focus is this year, never mind a breakout 2012 campaign at the plate, where Moss tallied 21 home runs and 52 RBIs in just 84 games. Topping those marks isn't his priority.
"My goal was to get better at first base and be a good defensive first baseman," Moss said. "The offense will take care of itself."
That it has.
Moss led a seemingly unstoppable A's club to its seventh straight win on Wednesday, collecting three hits while falling a double short of the cycle by walking in the ninth and picking up five RBIs in another imposing victory, this one an 11-5 drubbing of the division-favorite Angels.
Moss has nine RBIs in the series, with one more game still to be played on Thursday night, and he will enter it batting an even .400.
"He's really starting to become a complete player," manager Bob Melvin said. "He's a must for us. It's a testament to a good person that works his butt off and is now really getting some results at the big league level."
Moss spent parts of five seasons in the Majors with Boston, Pittsburgh and Philadelphia, with a pit stop spent in the International League along the way, before picking up a Minor League contract with Oakland last year and enjoying a breakthrough campaign following a June callup.
Moss quickly turned what was once simply thought to be a temporary opportunity into something much more. And now?
"He doesn't really surprise me anymore," said starter Tommy Milone.
That's essentially how the baseball realm should feel about the A's, who seem to be continuing what they started in a domineering second half that led to a division title last year.
After scoring just one run total over their first two games, both losses to the Mariners, the A's have outscored their opponents 57-23 in the seven that have followed, marking the first time they've started a season 7-2 since 2003.
The Angels, plagued again Wednesday by missed scoring opportunities and poor pitching, have only won two games and, even with Josh Hamilton in tow, appear to be riding down the same slow track they ventured down last April.
They sit dead last in the American League West, looking up at the first-place A's. Hamilton, by the way, is batting just .156.
Like Los Angeles, Oakland didn't have an April to remember either last year. The A's won 11 games, next to 13 losses during that span. But unlike the Angels, Oakland transformed into a contender that put together a magical season.
The A's surely had to work hard for their division crown. This year's club is merely making everything look easy.
Granted, only nine games are in the books, but in that time the A's have proved that they can really hit, despite some doubters saying otherwise. They've tallied 10 or more hits in each of their last seven games, including 16 on this night.
Many of them have been homers, but on Wednesday it was all about manufacturing runs, outside of Moss' fifth-inning solo shot off starter Joe Blanton. Each of Oakland's starting nine picked up at least one hit, and they also drew seven walks, including three in a row issued by relievers Mark Lowe and Dane De La Rosa in a five-run sixth.
"That was just great selfless baseball," Moss said. "Seeing guys go up there and not try to do too much but just get the guy over, it sets the tone for the night and that's when you see quality at-bats."
"Guys here will work counts, work at-bats and pass it on to the next guy, and that's how everyone's getting to hit," Melvin said. "That's the way it's been here the last six or seven games, and we feel like our lineup is deep enough to where we can score any inning."
Fittingly, leadoff hitter Coco Crisp was the first to score, notching a base hit off Blanton and stealing second before finding his way home on a pair of groundouts. He has scored a run in each of the club's seven wins and leads the Majors with 13.
The Angels plated a run of their own in the bottom half of the inning off Milone, but the A's got three in the third on an RBI knock from John Jaso and a two-run triple from Moss, who had not tripled since Sept. 18, 2009.
Los Angeles, again, countered with a run, but Moss' home run in the fifth pushed the A's to a 5-2 lead, one the Angels quickly narrowed with two runs in the bottom of the frame.
That's all they would get until the eighth, with Milone exiting after five with four runs to his name, while the A's proved far from done, utilizing the sixth to break open the game, before Moss locked up his final RBI of the night in the seventh with a single.
"It seems like we've started off this year just as we did the last half of last year," Milone said. "It's a good feeling."
Jane Lee is a reporter for MLB.com. Read her blog, Major Lee-ague, and follow her on Twitter @JaneMLB. This story was not subject to the approval of Major League Baseball or its clubs.


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This physician or health care professional uses an electronic medical record system.
This physician or health care professional uses myMemorialCare to access and store patient health information via the Epic ambulatory electronic medical record system. Patients of this practice may also securely view their health information online via myMemorialCare (MyChart), Epic's patient portal.
- General Surgery


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oscar2013's blog
Hey oscar2013, welcome to our Blogging Community!
We're glad you joined us. We provide all of our members with free blogging tools and web hosting. All we ask is that you dudely abide by our Blog Network's Terms of Service, and you're good to go.
Quickposts vs. Community Blogs
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When you're ready to post something longer, like a paragraph or two, try our community blogs.
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Generally speaking, you want to put some work into your profile to stand out. If you post a blog a guest your blank icon it already says "this person didn't even try". We suggest:
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Give your readers little bit about the author - just enough to they understand who the writer is, it doesn't have to be an autobiography or anything super personal. Maybe list some your favorite stuff, for starters.
Complete your About You page. You can also edit this anytime by clicking any of the edit links alongside the right column of your blog.
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Oh hey I'm new here wuz up I've been reading the site for 99 years and this is my first blog! I like tacos! Nice to meet everyone!!! -NieroIf you post that as a community blogs instead of a quickpost you're misusing the tools. Putting a quickpost into a community blog is what we call a "fail blog". Don't be that guy.
Blogs are complete thoughts. They should be able to stand alone. When you're ready to talk about an interesting topic, in 1-2 paragraphs and ask readers to respond to your thoughts then you're ready to blog. Got it?
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If you are copying and pasting from another blog, please take some time to personalize it for this community. Nobody likes copy-pasta, it's spammy.
There are more blogging tips at the bottom of the editing screen, like how to format BBcode and resizing your photos.
In Summary:
1) Completely fill out your profile
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4) Don't spam the Community blogs
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- The Flixist Community Team


text: 2013_10_21_09_26_5237-02-greenpeace_2.jpg Conflict & Justice Russia grants bail to most of the Greenpeace activists charged with hooliganism PRI's The World November 20, 2013 A Brazilian Greenpeace activist walked out of a courtroom in Saint Petersburg, Russia on Wednesday, free until her trial on charges of hooliganism. She was holding a sign that said "Save the Arctic." Most of the 29 others picked up in the Arctic while protesting offshore drilling there, have been granted bail and should be released this weekend.


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The Mets have announced the sale of Premium Pick-A-Packs, in which you can purchase tickets for the Subway Series or Opening Day and three other high-profile games.
The only drawback is the available selection of games is only through June, so forget about trying to get any end-of-the season tickets in this package.
Because they are premium tickets, the seats are in premium parts of Citi Field. They range from Baseline Box to Metropolitan Box.
You can order your Mets ticket package online or call 718-507-TIXX.