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Photokina Thoughts by Ralph Howald with my thoughts and YOURS! Sony RX1, Leica M, Fuji X-E1…
Hey Steve,
While you were cruising I visited the Photokina. I live in the Zurich area and Cologne is an easy day trip away.
Here are my thoughts after being able to handle many of the cameras that we both like.
Sony RX1: It was on display but they would not let me touch the camera. They also showed the separate EVF which looks quite ugly on the camera IMO. I asked the rep why they did not include a VF. He responded that all Cybershots would not have VF's… I told him that this would not make sense to me. The target group that understands a fixed prime lens on a full frame sensor wants a VF, especially for the price. In my eyes, once again Sony marketing rules prevented a product from making complete sense. Making the smallest body apparently was seen more relevant than including a key feature. He responded that they would certainly use customer feedback for future developments.
Steve's Thoughts: I agree on the VF issue. I would have preferred a built in EVF..no doubt but it is what it is. Sony has managed to create the camera that we have all asked for but they have missed one or two things. One is a built in VF. The good thing is you can buy one for external use..the bad thing is the price and size it adds to the camera. I have no doubt the EVF will be outstanding but it does come at a cost of money and size. If Sony would have included a built in EVF like they did on the NEX-7 it would have been much closer to the camera we have been waiting for. Even so, it is a feat of engineering because the RX1 is indeed SMALL..it is FULL FRAME and has the new A99 sensor. Zeiss glass, f/2 aperture, fast AF, awesome video….it will be a sweet lustworthy camera anyway.
Sony NEX 6: This one handled really well and felt quite mature. However, I probably won't buy one since I don't buy into this stupid marketing gag of having the thinnest body which causes all sorts of optical and mechanical issues. The NEX corner of the booth was not busy at all so I got the impression that customer interest in this product family is getting smaller.
Steve's Thoughts: I disagree here. The NEX-5n was awesome and had literally no optical or mechanical issues. The only body that had issues was the NEX-7 with wider angle Leica M glass, which was not good but only created an issue if you wanted to shoot wide-angle non Sony NEX lenses. The new 6 uses the same sensor design as the 5N but it is updated. It should not cause any issues with wide-angle lenses nor should there be any mechanical issues. I hear from many who are into their NEX system cameras and it is only getting better. The 6 feels really good in the hand and I feel it will be a better camera all the way around over the 7, which kind of sucks really because the 7 is not that old at all.
Leica M: I own a Leica M9 and love it but could use some better high ISO performance some times. I also own a 90 2.8 Elmarit-M which is not spot-on on all focus distances since it was made in the pre-digital era when tolerances were less tight than today. An EVF would solve this problem and I got very excited on Monday when I saw the M announcement. When I handled it on the booth I was not so sure about my level of excitement anymore. All these add-ons not only look ugly they also seem to dilute the simplistic user experience. You have to switch through so many modes and and change VF's, it's almost confusing. I asked the rep why they did not implement a hybrid VF and he responded that they wanted to preserve the classic rangefinder. Superimposing information à la X100 apparently was not possible. When I asked if they are working on a pure electronic VF version like the X-E1 (which I would buy in a heart beat) I did not get an answer. I think that would cut out a lot of cost out of manufacturing. The rangefinder mechanics is extremely cost intensive, as it's almost like a mechanic watch built into a camera. I think a fully digital Leica for 3500€ or less would break a lot of ice with younger photographers that cannot afford the new M and do not care about classic features so much. I think the new M is great for people who still have R lenses. For beginners and pure M photographers it offers little advancements (although, I'm really looking forward to seeing movies shot with a 50 Lux). In that sense I'm a bit disappointed. I probably will skip this version of the camera and buy another lens instead.
I ran into my Leica dealer at the show and he told me that he would still order more M's than M-E's since his customers tend to go for the most expensive option. This is sad and sending the wrong message to Leica. They are ignoring a lot of their potential marked. He also said that the 4800€ for the M-E are still too much for most photographers and he's probably right.
What I loved at the Leica booth was their photo exhibition. It was a great break in all that gear tech on the other booths.
Steve's Thoughts: I think Leica is moving in the right direction though I also feel like a hybrid VF/EVF would have been a MUCH nicer way to go. Adding the EVF to the top of an M is unsightly, bulky and odd but we are in 2012 and instead of adding old optical VF's we now are adding big plastic EVF's. I think this new M is more definitive than the M9 in the fact that it even has the live view/EVF option, weather sealing, focus peaking, better LCD (finally), higher ISO capability and options. Options we do not have on the M-E. The M-E is classic Leica digital. The M is forward thinking and it may pay off or may not. I have not even held one yet and have no idea when I will but when I do I will let everyone know my thoughts. I do know that today in 2012 it is a much different time than it was in 2009. There are so many amazing options out today in digital that Leica will not sell as many M's as they did M9. I think the M9 was the top of the mountain for Leica in the digital world and they may stay at the top for a while but unless they rock a full-fledged 100% "what-we-want" camera (and the M is ALMOST there) then they may have a struggle.
Still, I applaud them for having a trio of capable M's – the M-E which we all know and love (the M9), the M with its new bells and whistles (that many will welcome) and the Monochrome, the most unique of all. These are a nice set of cameras for Leica that gives us a CHOICE and lower prices. Much better than releasing the M at $9000 and ditching the M9 all together.
Fuji X-E1: Felt really great. Usability was even better that with the X-Pro 1 especially when using zoom lenses. With the Pro, the frame lines move around too much for my taste when zooming and focusing. Speed of the X-E1 seemed to be acceptable under mid to low light but not aggressively fast. I am curious to read your review on this one, especially about the kit lens. I also heard rumors about Fuji working on a full frame. Add focus peaking and this could be the camera that I was waiting on coming from Leica. The rep of at the booth said that despite the release of the X-E1 they have not let down the X100. There will be something coming. Could this be an answer to the RX1?
Steve's Thoughts: I am excited about the X-E1 as it appears to be more likeable than the X-Pro 1 (at least for me). It is slightly smaller, faster, better EVF…I mean, what is not to like? Same sensor, lenses, etc. The X-E1 should be a rip-roaring success for Fuji if it is what it is cracked up to be and that goes for any camera in this list. I should get a hold of one soon so I will keep everyone posted.
EOS M: Forget this one. Tried it. Very disappointing (speed etc.). I hope that Canon will do their homework for the next iteration.
Steve's Thoughts: Too little and too late.
Nikon D600 and Canon 6D: Both looked very interesting. I'm looking for something for my studio projects for which I'm still using the Canon 40D. Looking at the picture quality of the D600 I'm tempting to switch systems… or… what do you think, would an X-E1 already be able to replace a SLR?
Steve's Thoughts: I like the fact that Nikon and Canon released these mid level full frame DSLR's. While I am not a DSLR fan I do know there are many out there who love their DSLR systems and many are so invested in Nikon and Canon glass that these camera bodies are a welcome sight to those who shoot these systems. As for Studio, any modern camera will do with a decent sized sensor but full frame or larger will always be king.
Elinchrom suprised me with a 100Ws studio flash light for enthusiasts. Very cool and affordable. It addresses the biggest problem home studio owners have which is not being able to turn down the power enough. Instead of going for cheap Chinese lights we can now buy a quality light that is fully compatible with the great Elinchrom range of accessories.
There are exciting months in front of us.
Now…what are YOUR thoughts on the above cameras? Leave a comment below and let us know!
153 Responses to "Photokina Thoughts by Ralph Howald with my thoughts and YOURS! Sony RX1, Leica M, Fuji X-E1…"
obviously like your web site however you need to check the spelling on several of your posts. A number of them are rife with spelling problems and I to find it very bothersome to inform the truth on the other hand I'll certainly come again again.
Hi Steve,
Like many I enjoy reading your upbeat and full of information posts. I wonder why Sony Nex cameras , sensational RX1 with full frame compact and new Nex6 don't have Image Stabilization?
Thank you,
I just placed my order a couple of days ago for the new Fujifilm X-E 1, and I am very excited about this little rocket of a camera. I'll admit, I was really hoping for a full frame Fuji … that of course didn't happen, but I think we all know its coming.
My prediction (based solely on my stealthy skills as a detective and zero facts or insider knowledge ;-) is that Fuji will unveil the new X200 in early 2013 and it will be a fixed prime full frame sensor camera – with a built-in EVF and OVF.
It makes sense when you consider how heavily invested Fuji is in their new X-series sensors and lenses. The X-E 1, X-Pro 1 and eventual X-Pro 2 will have a nice run with their super-sized APS-C sensors and growing catalogue of X-lenses – but I'm willing to bet Fuji is watching Sony's release of their full frame
RX-1 closely, and will introduce their own full frame X200 with a crazy fast fixed prime – and a built-in viewfinder. Probably electronic and hybrid optical. I just hope they don't price it too high.
Anyway, that's my prediction … and as technology allows smaller camera bodies to house larger sensors and higher resolutions, I believe all mirror-less compact cameras will have full frame sensors, maybe as early as 2014.
Remember, ya heard it here first ;-)
It's pretty obvious that there's no way Sony is going to produce 2 FF still camera lines. They already have to figure a way to sell the a99, now that its announced. Whether Fuji makes a FF line, who knows, they could because the dont have an existing FF line. The rx1 is going to be no more then what it is intended for, which is a tiny niche market camera for folks begging for FF, but Sony already has NEx and Alpha, there is NO way Sony is going to make a 3rd ILC system. anyone who buys the rx1 is going to be burned big time like the ones who bought the x-100. Save your money and buy the xe1 or NEX.
Something many Serious Photo Enthusiasts have a problem understanding is that everything isn't about You, You You.
1. Why would a Sony Cybershot have an EVF?? Cybershots have never had EVFs. Maybe the RX1 isn't aimed at Serious Photo Enthusiasts, but at an audience that doesn't want/need an EVF. How about young people who have always held their "photo devices" at arms length (they are a much larger market segment than SPEs).
2. If Leica can have a Hermès edition, why can't Hasselblad 8-)
For Me, the only half-way interesting camera, mentioned here, is the Fuji X-E1. I'm not a RF fan, so getting rid of the Hybrid Viewfinder is a Big Step Foward for Me, YMMV. Now I'm waiting for a 90mm f/1.8 (=135mm FF) lens. Although not mentioned, in this post, the Panasonic GH3 also looks good. And, unlike the Sony NEX, the GH3 is has a good selection of lenses already available. The announced 150mm f/2.8 should be a killer.
Thanks for mentioning the Elinchrom DRX ONE, this is the first I've heard of it. With a Maxi Lite or Maxi Spot reflector it should give a nice crisp look. I couldn't find a price on the 'net, but ?&? sells the D-Lite 2 for $275.00, so it should be inexpensive. I can see the DRX ONE replacing my Profoto AcuteB 600 for a lot of commercial shoots.
1) I don't think anyone looked at the RX1 and said, "Oh look it's the newest Cybershot". I don't know about anyone else but I equate that word with digital Sonys from 2003. One of which I had and it did in fact have a viewfinder (the one with the swivel lens). I think people see the Nex7 with it's viewfinder would only assume a camera that costs twice as much and has full frame might be best served with a built in VF instead of a pop flash.
2) If Hasselblad built it off the RX1 then thats one thing..it's got a FF and kick butt lens. But they based it off of a mid-level camera with crop sensor and are charging as much as the new Leica M. That is whats bumming people out. Of course the Hermes Edition can be argued but it is hand made and it is a professional camera and they only make a handful of them.
The X Pro 1 is nothing like a rangefinder. If you haven't tried their hybrid VF I highly suggest it. Gives you a lot more coverage then the EVF version.
c.d.embrey absolutely hit it with the first point. I reacted in horror at first to the fixed lens component, but now that I've had time to read more and think more, I'm definitely the target audience.
Big, big enthusiast who hates plastering my face to my camera. Didn't do it growing up, and I always feel horribly guilty when I hand back a friend's DSLR that now has my face oil slathered all over the back side. I also wear glasses, and hate clinking my lens with the VF, or finding that the image is blurry through the VF when I take my glasses off.
I currently have a C3, but find low light performance wanting, increasingly limited by the menu driven controls, and lust after the IQ of a friend's 5DIII. Although he proudly says that those who love taking pictures should have no problem lugging it around when hiking, backpacking, and gathering with friends… I politely disagree. Chalk that up to my weak arms and desire to not have to carry a bag the size of a small cooler for my gear. That's where the size of the RX-1 really appeals to me.
Although I love shooting landscapes, 24mm really is too wide for the rest of my general use. I want whatever lens gives me the best IQ, and thus far sample images seem to cautiously live up to the hype. Coupled with Sony's SmartZoom technology that gives me focal lengths of 50 mm and 70 mm (I believe?), I think I should be alright with having that darned fixed lens. Now it just remains to be seen if the autofocus is alright.
In short.. small package + full frame sensor + knobs and dials + some ability to zoom + lack of that annoying VF = guess I'll be paying out through the nose for it..
Have a look at Borbarad's live report here below…
Well, that was not really a review.
We've played quite bit with the new M (had our M9P and M8 as well a Leica 1 from 1928 with us) – to long probably. And we used basically:
The new M in Black and Chrome, the 100m and 21-35mm R Lenses with adapter, the Olympus Viewfinder, the GPS Grip and Flash bracket and the Leica SF58 Flash and the 50mm Lux, 50mm APO Summicron , the Noticlux and 21 mm SE.
But it is not a bad camera and when everything attached felt more of an very we'll build DSLR and it will definitely sell in shiploads – but if you have the M9P and possible a old film one you will – after touched, felted and handled the new M – stick with what you've got. The new M just doesn't feels right. My personal bet is that in future the M9-P in Chrome or Black will be regarded as a Leica M Classic!
And if you are in need of Liveview and HD Video and Lens adaptations then my suggestion would be: Get the OM-D. (As I have one in my bag for AF, LiveView and HD Video and its a superb little EVIL)
Anyway. The New S is very nice!. The small new Joystick is very useful and handles very well. Apart from that the exterior is the same, but it feels more responsive then the S2. The new lenses are great! From what I could see on the Display the 120mm and 24mm are great new additions and the new TS lens is very well build and quite impressive. The new 30-90mm Zoom is actually quite heavy, but sizewise about the same as a 14-24 F2.8 Nikkor. However, the ISO1600 A4 Testshot provided was stunning for MF System. I haven't seen a MF 1600 shot with less noise and even the M9 at 1600 would be noisier!
But the camera which I liked most was the M Monochrom. I haven't yet looked at the Test-shot made on my Mac but from what I saw on the Display the gradiation was just stunning, esp. with different lights in the background. They had also photos from Jono Slack on Display to show the difference in detail (which actually were not that easily noticeable). But really jaw dropping where those Monochrom Prints in in the Gallery, esp the two big ones (about 1.2×1.8m or even bigger) – the Chinese Girl and the Chinese Village seen in the Monochrom Brochure. That would be the M I would spend my money on if i would. But I'm very happy with m M9-P in Crome!
Thumb up! Have a look at my post #44 and please tell me where I'm wrong…
Agree. Only, they usually do not get relegated to the back room when they screw up, they get promoted
The only two cameras that I have any interest in from this Photokina are the Sony RX1 and new Leica M. The Monochrom of course was well known beforehand.
If the new M hadn't been announced, I'd have bought the RX1 or Monochrom. But the many advantages to the new M will likely win out over the others. I have an X2 already (and an M9) so in the face of that the RX1 seems redundant … I'll put that money into the new M.
A different camera just read LL DP1M review
" The DP2M may have the highest per-pixel usable picture resolution of any camera I have ever used and tested. No, this is not Michael being hyperbolic. In recent weeks I, along with a couple of other well known photographers who also bought their own DP2M (or have been borrowing mine) have been doing comparisons with other gear in their arsenals. In every case they (we) come away shaking our heads and vowing not to publish what we see"
As with Leica Monochrom DP2M is the purest sensor for b&w as neither have CFA
I've been to Photokina and played quite a bit with the New M.
The Liveview implementation is Good and dos not disturb the Rangefinder Feeling. This is part of the good news. The software is still buggy. There is quite a bit work left to do and the new Menu is a bit more complicated and not so elegant and straight forward as the old one. Video is not really on the pro-marked side and more of a gimmick. Really awesome is the new baseplate with flash connector and GPS as well as the new Fashbracket. This should have been made for the M9!!!!. The LED Rangefinder frame lines are good as well, but the frame selector is gone and there is no software option for this!
The focus peaking feature is ok, but not really accurate compared to the rangefinder, esp. on fine corners. The magnification tool is currently way better. The R solution is nice and simple and actually handles very well. This will made some old customers very happy!
But the M does not feel right and personal I don't like it.
The design is off, esp. the red dot as it is bigger now and somehow out of position. Just doesn't look right. But more importantly now the new M feels like a brick, it's just to thick. The rangefinder over nor the plate nor the extra weight is an issue. It's the middle part. On the M8/9 the was enough space above the scroll well for the thumb and you could hold it nicely between your fingers. It feels nice & slick, more like a old M. Now it's like if you place your thumb on the scroll wheel of the M8/9 and your remaining ones at the front….. About 2-3mm thicker.
Not my taste.
Anyway. What I really like apart from the awesome gallery was the new S. Great little improvements, superb new lenses and a awesome ISO 1600 Testshot sample from a MF not seen before. But the camera I liked the most and I would buy if there was some spare money left would be the M Monochrom!!!!!!!
once upon a time…….. an upstart company started to produce a rangefinder camera in this weird small 35mm format – but it started to sell . so the mega camera company had to react and it produced a pretty pathetic rival – well that didn't work so they decided to try again , this time they assessed all the faults of the upstart and corrected them in their new camera – so they made film loading easy – they made one combined rangefinder/viewfinder- they produced a 1/1250th top speed and all speeds on one dial ! – they made focusing of longer lenses more accurate – they made more different lenses and faster lenses with a bayonet mount !- and soon they brought out a version with a built in meter !! – ok their camera was a bit bigger and heavier but not by much, it was also uglier and noisier and more expensive – all in all however the upstart camera did'nt match their achievements for 10 years or more (or ever in terms of film loading !!) still the upstart leica outsold the zeiss consistently until 20+ years later they launched the M3 which finally put right some of the original 'faults' and finally killed of the 'superior' Contax . (by the way i have both a LTM camera and a Contax II and III – my leica IIIf rd da is in my opinion the most elegant camera ever made – to hell with these new fangled , ugly M things !!) . My point for those not versed in irony is that the most technically advanced camera is not always the most successful nor the most desirable – oh and i forgot to mention that both these cameras produced 'inferior' images – after all serious photographers use at least a rollei if not a 5×4 don't they ??
apart from my sarcastic comments about this discussion – i was hoping to see an olympus e-p5 – i hope that they havn't abandoned the ep line – i want an e-p3 with the om-d sensor and tilting screen – maybe it'll come next spring when o-md sales start to wane
"Looks and name are more important than any performance could ever be."
That about sums it up. Shall I take out the Ferrari? No, the 911? Perhaps the 356GS. No! A better one is coming. Brother.
I'm not trying to be, nor do I mean to be negative towards any one of the posters. It just seems any new technology is bashed if it isn't THE brand name, yet dismal availability or less-than-ideal features on THE brand are lauded as desirable while competing products with outstanding availability, innovative feature set and, frankly, priced accordingly, and givens in a highly competitive market are met with, "but it doesn't have…". I like to have priorities somewhat in place. Until they're tested, heads up with like technology, no matter who made them, they're worthless as anything other than a fashion look-at-me, look-at-me statement. If they're hardly available, they're also worthless. And don't kid yourself; if you talk about it for a year and then don't put up, and new uh, take this for now responses are met with teenage-like enthusiasm, who's the sucker?
MM with highlight problems or PP time wasted, etc., boy that's a groundbreaking a bargain. FF without a VF, sacrilege! Wait! It's going to be in their next release. I'd rather finish the race than be kept waiting for a brand name part.
"I think Leica is moving in the right direction." At this rate, most of us will too feeble to use anything coming from the latest iteration if, and painfully, when, it arrives. But then Right Stuff will have made an overpriced bracked for my walker.
Why!?! Oh, WHY!?! I can´t understand why Sony made the RX1 without an optical (I prefer optical) viewfinder…a big failure from Sony….
You all bitch and moan way too much. All of these cameras are great, with great IQ and can most likely out shoot you and your needs. It's pompas to be so opinionated on gear you've never tried. There is a large difference between needs and wants. Get it together people. Just be happy these great cameras exist.
My recent cameras that I have been lucky enough to own: K5, X100, OM-D, X-Pro1, D600. None are exactly what I wanted but all are amazing. X100 was probably the closest. Good job to all manufacturers!
Why are you harping on other people when you yourself have bought 5 cameras many which overlap in usability?
For me the new Leica M2 and Olympus OM-3 were by far the best releases at Photokina, I will definitely buy both of them!
Aren'nt we like couch potatos, with beer and remote in hand, who consistently know better than the guys in the field running their hearts out to actually get a working camera out for sale?
For a photographer photographing a variety of subjects
XE-1 may be the converging point
(nex6 features sans tilt screen,
samsung & m43 lenses,
AF single shot almost as fast as omd,
possibly the finest current apsc sensor,
possibly the best jpegs
high iso
M & legacy lens
digliux2/3 design).
Very nice stuff all around this year at Photokina. I'm looking so forward to the next one and the time when some of these new cameras will become affordable to me as used gear :-)
RX1 shallow dof : have to get pretty close to subject. Im not sure 35mm f2 (f1.4 in apsc) was ever a shallow dof length for people, street.
(5-90-100-135 is more a shallow dof length).
RX1 strengths : a more relaxed look than
1″, m43, apsc in low light, high iso. large prints
Concerts, Catwalk, Fashion, Reportage, Street : X1, X2, X100, RX100, RX1 will all do fine.
The general trend (stepping away from the hype for a second) is moving up in sensor size with 36×24 as the sweet spot, and moving down in camera size and weight.
Ergonomics will always play a defining role: if you can't hold it comfortably, it's a bad design. Also, serious users want a good viewfinder, that doesn't get pushed off inadvertently.
Let's fast forward 5 years and be amazed at where we are then!
What makes any of you think they are going to release a X200?? I wouldn't hold my breath. If they do it will not be until mid year 2013 at the least, they would have to outshine the SONYRX1 which may or may not not be a street photographers ideal camera (if you like using external OVF or have used 24mm on a Leica M).
They is NO indication there will be a X200 – ZERO. All just pipe dreams for now.
There have been a lot of back and forth about the Fuji and FF. It seems like Fuji wished they would have went that route now that they see all these new mi-priced cameras with a bigger sensor. Alas they are committed to the 1.5x as the XF lens will not work with a FF sensor. I also think a lot of XP users don't care as the camera takes incredible images and that all that matters.
How many 3 grand cameras do you want in the market, man? Fuji does not need to go full frame, and as you sayy, as long as the a camera takes incredible pics, that all that matters, so why not apsc, they take incredible pics. full frame is too expensive and thats the most important feature to most….most being the majority of the camera users.
Seems like almost everyone here on this site is in la la land about how camera sales work. It's clear the rx-1 is a camera that only richies can afford to buy, and this isnt a knock on rich folks buts thats a fact. Even if people save to get the rx-1 they still wont get it cause it aint worth around 3 grand anyways. Those price points are always reserved for working pros, and they've all chosen canon or nikon, with some chosing alternative brands and cameras.A camera can be the greatest camera in the world but that dont mean it will sell well. Someone can have the greatest voice in the music industry but it dont mean he or she can have a great song to sell records. You can put gold exterior on the rx-1 and it still wont sell fantastic.
The funny thing is people cry about how wonderful m43 is and how its almost as good as apsc yada yada yada, but then the same people cry about how aps-c isnt enough, then next thing you know full frme isnt enough and then hey geuss waht,medium format isnt enough, and then here comes the megapixels argument. It seems like a never ending wishy washy wish list…no wonder camera makers are confused and make products that have too much of one thing or not enough of another. People are so greedy they dont even know what they want as apposed to what they need. The rx-1 price has exceeded the current times of affordability. Sorry , but the market doesnt want to spend more than maybe 1 grand on a decent camera, mostly, and asking for things only 5 poeple are going to bu isnt going to help, all it's doing is getting camera makers to make stuff that doesnt sell enough, which in the end will result in syste abandonments, and eventual bankruptcy. Half the cameras on the market are not needed. There isnt a need for like 6 m43 cameras out at one time…not even more than two. Im still waiting for a watch to feature a m43 sensor and can shoot pictures, just so they can saturate the market even more with the same things over and over again. folks should try NOT buying things ever year for a change, that way, same old crap products dont get made. sometimes the best way to vote is to stop voting for the same thing, over and over again.
You must have just skimmed what I was saying. I basically said there is a lot of talk about FF but most XPro users (myself included) don't seem to care if the camera is FF because it takes amazing pictures as is with it's cropped sensor.
The camera industry is 2 years away from having FF mirrorless cameras thats cost 1-1.5k USD
FF "may "cameras wont be 1-1.5 k in 2 years,but that could have happened years ago and 1.5k is still too much for a entry FF camera. They could have made a 1.5k camera long by now had folks not kept on begging for higher MP's and noise performance. The older FF sensors in the 5d were fine…it's just most have a greedy obsession with more and more and more of something…which is the jyst of my original comment. Give me and any sensible person a FF 8MP sensor with good noise peformance up to 6400 iso and we'll be over the moon. I don't need 1 million iso to shoot rats in a dark pub. But, the reason why companies don't make such a camera is because of "greedy ignorant consumers" who keep asking for more and more , year after year. You wouldn't believe how many people I get ask or say to me that they think more mp is better, even on PS cameras.
I didnt agree with Steve that the rx1 being a midrange priced camera because the prices are so out of wack from the film cameras . Just ten years ago, which isn't a long time, a pro film camera like the eos 1v or f5 ran about 2-2.5k.And those cameras were the cream of the crop for 35mm. The entry level flim slrs from the big 4 could be had for roughly 450-500 dollars.That would make middle of the road slr's around 900 dollars. Fast forward in ten short years, entry level dslrs like the pentax dl2 were around 5-600 dollars while pro dslrs are no roughly 7K! that is a very very big gap.There's no way the mid level cameras are 3-4 k, it's just too expensive. I know there some inflation involved, but unless it's in Uganda, it's nowhere near comparable to what cameras were just ten years ago. Somehwere Leica thought for some reason it could charge 7 grand for their camera, which doesnt even involve AF technology, LOL. If we go by the pricing of the flagship dslrs, then entry level dslrs now should be around 3.5k and not 600 dollars.
Also, people seem to think predorders for a camera online to be a mark of a cameras financial success. Not neccessarily, as alot of those orders may be from pros or enthusiasts. What determines success for a camera is how much is sold in a duration of it's life expectancy, not to mention that the cameras are not always made in the same quantities for at launch time. The mainstream buyers usually do not preorder cameras, they wait till it comes to the big stores or to their local camera shops. the enthusiasts will preorder, just like those who wait in line for 24hrs just so they can use a new phone to text and kill ppl while they drive. The camera market is like any other business but the the rx1 is not a 200 dollar device.Despite how awesome a camera is..it's not awesome enough if it aint affordable. And when I say affordable, I dont mean the folks who are pros, enthusiasts or people who would rather buy a camera than feed their kids. LOL
Correction- FF cameras MAY be 1-1.5 k in 2 years but…
I agree cameras can get out of hand but I still think this race is fueled by avid photographers trying to get consumer level cameras to FF. As much as cameras are just fine with a cropped sensor the reality is FF is better. You wouldn't want to use cropped film. Obviously we settle for cropped sensors because i know I can't afford a 6k camera. Even though I might be able to afford an RX1 I would never spend that kind of money on a fixed lens camera that had a Sony label on it, maybe Leica or Fujibut otherwise i'll just wait until the demand and cost intersect to until I get that FF.
I may not want to get crop film, but smaller films way back when were not so great…in fact, all films way back when were not so great. We are lucky to have digital are we not? There is enough resolving power in todays PS cameras that if you were to use them back during the JFK cia assasination, you'd be able to see the gunman on the grassy knoll and the one hiding in the sewer and along every culprit involved in the shooting.
I agree that FF is better than apsc but not as much as ppl believe it to be. Maybe the FF technology isn't as advanced as apsc? Who knows? I used to be into high resolution pics but now that bores me to no end…so much so I despise it. There is a time when you realize that sharper is not better and there are many times when you don't want a photo to look like a photo. Iv'e been to art schools where people print super large prints with medium format equipment and really, all that sharpness bores me to death. Iam truly ashamed I used to be into that silly sharpness stuff. And…I don't need to see every dew on every blade of grass, nor all the clogged pores on somebody's unwashed face. I see sharp enough with my own eyes and i don't need or expect a photo to be the sharpest thing I lay my eyes on in this universe. For me, it's a never ending dead end street, ( trying to sound like confucius) lol.
You are definately right abou ther x-1 fixed lens problem. The biggest caveat for that camera is that fact. If your rx-1 body dies, your lens is useless. If your lens dies, the body is useless. You can't sell one if the other doesn't work either. So it's either pay to fix, or into the garbage it goes.Like saimese twins, those two elements are forever tied to each other. If your car dies, you can at least use the wheels on another car.LOL.
As for labels, if the rx-1 had the Leica name stamped on it, I highly doubt you would buy that camera, cause it sure as hell aint gonna be 3k! LOL. I would be over the moon if a CSc had just a tweeked Canon 5d FF sensor with 9mp on it for a grand.I think alot of people would too.. maybe not the ones here.LOL
Still torn between the X-Pro1 and X-E1. Should I buy the Pro1 now or wait for the E1 until November? I love the optical viewfinder on my X100, although I sure can live without it. There should be something to the Pro1, other than the OVF and a higher-resolution screen? I mean otherwise the price difference makes little sense. I'm checking the local Russian stores for deal on X-Pro1 daily but to no avail. Confused.
Hi Alex
I was in John Lewis where the XP1 is on prominent display. Its OVF is 90% (same as my ole S1 pro from 2000). Its fine for most things but when focusing close up subjects it can get a inaccurate with framing esp as unlike a dslr cant see what is in focus.
What's nice about the OVF is even without switching on the XP1 can still frame & track a subject.
The light inside John Lewis was excellent thus no lag with tracking using XP1 EVF also no jitter
if the light was rally low id have to OVF.
XE1 EVF even better than XP1 EVF almost twice the dots 2.34million vs 1.44 million and has
"two glass elements and one double aspheric element offer a display comparable to that of an optical viewfinder"
Really the only way to know our own preference would be to test both.
Thanks dgd. Well, it looks like the EVF in the X-Pro1 has the same resolution as the one in the X100. I guess I will have to wait for the XE1 release and see what the fuss is all about. I've read some reports from Photokina where people are raving about the new EVF.
In the rain there i was in John Lewis London's Oxford Street re-familiarising myself with the 35mm fixed (X100).
Well for anyone whose favourite focal length is 35mm RX1 gonna be as we say in england the "dogs bollocks" ;)
Obviously to get shallow dof need to get close to the subject eg 20cm (thats why 35mm film cameras had portrait lenses).
Whomever in sony said no built in ovf or evf should check into a loony farm.
I have a film Leica, I will keep it. Over all I think the new Leicas are fine. But I do agree, drop the RF and go to EVF and autofocus. For digital I love my X-Pro 1. Fuji may someday go full frame with the X, but the only reason why Leica, Canon and went full frame was their lens system. Yes I understand the bigger the better. In film 35mm was on the bottom of IQ pile. But then again a 4×5 was messy at 3fps. I think the mirrorless cameras will be mostly all APC. Versitlty and size is going to their mainstay. The Full frame mirrorless will just get bigger and bigger. The Wt will start to go back to DSLR size and so will the lens. The MP, M6 and M7 size cameras. I believe that is group mirrorless appeal to. Small, light and fast. IQ full ou, in a reason able and portable camera is 35mm Full frame. Look at the great IQ with tecchnology that Fuji is giving from no AA and a new Bayer config. and this is the first camera.
I feel as if you choose the right camera for what you want to do. No one camera will ever do everything the best. One of the best pictures I ever took was with $50 SLR, with a fixed two element lens. It was rated one of the worst cameras ever made.
APC I feel is a great size senor for mirrorless cameras
Add-on, top-mounted viewfinders are OK with me, generally, because my left eye is dominant, and this feature allows my right eye to be above the camera body, instead of being blocked, while my left eye uses the viewfinder.. This is important on the street, and outdoors in general.
I really do want to be able to handle an RX1! It may disappoint, but for now, I am very attentive. I am eager to learn how it will perform in low light, at high ISO, and with longer exposures at lower ISO.
Leica continues to be interesting. Realistically, however, I will not be buying any M-mount Leica until I retire from my present career, which may be as soon as next year, or may be a decade away.
The Nikon DSLR announcements do not tempt me, nor does the Canon 6D. Canon DSLRs will remain my working tools, and I am thinking I may be able to justify the purchase price of a new weather-resistant full-frame body next year, but prefer dual memory card slots.
Fuji X cameras have my interest, too. If I decide not to acquire a full-frame DSLR next year, a Fuji X will move up a place on my list.
Thanks for sharing!
As for Leica…I'll still stay with my beautiful M3 with a 50mm Summicron lens. I don't believe Leica has a compelling enough product in the digital world to justify such a high price. The Fuji X-Pro1 although not a perfect camera has in my opinion exposed the M9 as an overpriced camera that is hard for me to justify.
I am waiting on the new x100 before I decide whether I get the X-E1. I have my own wishlist. 1.4m, x-pro sensor & menu. X-E1 EVF. improved AF and MF. Don't touch build quality. No reason why this can't be done. It's established Fuji technology.
The Sony RX1 struck the first blow. The X200 (X150?) will likely counter with FF and a hybrid viewfinder built in. Now Sony has a lot to worry about. Couldn't they see that one coming? The question is- how much better is this new FF sensor / fast autofocusing combo than what Fuji will muster up?
The FF wars are just beginning and the only winners will be us the photographer-consumers!
Ralph is right. A Leica M without the range-finder would make for a much cheaper, simpler, smaller camera ( back to the concept of the Ur Leica ? ). Just add a 2 megapixel evf on the hot shoe. Incidentally, why can't they just put a USB type contact in the hot shoe for the evf ? Maybe Jonathan Ive can teach them how to do things the Apple way.
I think with a bit of effort Leica could have shoehorned this basic M9 into a film M sized body.Now that would have been something.
The only way they could have done that would be with a protruding mount like on Nex-5 and some other mirrorless cameras. That would mean completely redesigning the rangefinder and optical finder.
Reason is the sensor and back LCD are much thicker than film and backplate on traditional cameras for film.
For a EVF- only Leica "D" (as in Digital) it is surely a possibility. If Leica ever will make one. Though I don't think it will be as cheap as many are dreaming or have AF.
Leica M, what is it for? I own an M9-P, which I always regarded as the M3 of digital photography. Actually, it was the digital camera that convinced me to complement my M3 & M4 couple of bodies with a digital one. IMO, it has everything you need (honestly also something more) to practice the art of photography. A classical viewfinder/rangefinder (one of the very few capital reasons that justify the cost of being a Leica photographer), a superb CCD sensor with more pixels than you ever need, an ISO capability that largely exceeds the traditional films saving the possibility to exploit the grain of films if you want (actually, sometimes I only missed lower ISO levels…), a non-intrusive software that perfectly matches the exigencies of a photographer, a screen that satisfies all the tasks it may have for a Leica photographer without damaging the harmony of the body (basically, I use it to check the battery power, the number of pictures taken/left, the ISO level, only a couple of times I used it to check if a passing car entered my frame before I could shoot), and and… What else? It's stunning, a perfection of electromechanical construction, like the M3 was the perfection of mechanical construction, two masterpieces of industrial design. Now we have this M, with its pastiche of viewfinders and LED frame lines (!): LED frame lines are a cost reduction measure sold as an innovation (actually, the first betrayal of the unmatched Leica viewfinder), much more than that, there is plenty of TTL reflex cameras if I want to go for TTL photography, I cannot understand this move at all, if not for very special professional applications, certainly not street photography. Second cost reduction measure: CMOS sensor in lieu of the professional CCD sensor, and can we miss a bunch of useless pixels in addition? The same selling instruments of phone sellers, very sad to say… Not to mention the movie option: I find it totally ridiculous, it gets me crazy, I mean, shooting films with a manual focus, manual exposition, no zoom camera! Oh yes, but HD… Well, than we have a superb integrated monophonic microphone… I guess if, together with higher ISO's we also have filters and camera pre-processing of pictures, stability correction software, LOL… A higher resolution screen is fine (even if useless – there is no Leica photographer taking pictures looking at the screen, I hope – it costs nothing today, whilst the sapphire glass is so expensive…), a larger one compromising the equilibrium of aesthetics is not. The overall result is a heavier and bulkier body (5 mm deeper). I'm totally disappointed by this evolution, better call it involution. On the other hand, this more and more convinces me that I am a lucky and happy owner of the peak of digital photography – the M9-P – like the M3 is the peak of film photography.
"CMOS sensor in lieu of the professional CCD sensor" – believe me, there is nothing professional about CCDs. Nikon used CCDs in many of their older DSLRS including the D80, but have continuously improved the output using CMOS sensors, so that the latest generation of these sensors are much better than any of these older CCDs. I don't say that the Kodak CCD in the M9 is bad, not at all, but a lot has happened in sensor improvement over the last few years using CMOS technology.
Difficult to share your opinion, Anders. If it were like you say, we should understand why CCD's are still used in the highest demanding applications, like microscopes and medical appliances in general, or astronomy, those applications where quality definitely comes before cost. Cost is a good reason anyhow, since there is a difference of an order of magnitude between CCD and CMOS, but at least we would like to see Leica's saving transferred to selling price, which is not the case. Then, why using CCD for Monochrom?? This is a 2012 camera, isn't it? And S2?? And plain rubber instead of vulcanite? And simplification of viewfinder, one of the most expensive parts of a Leica? You bet, the manufacturing cost of M is substantially lower than M9, not to mention M9-P, but the price is not: more margins for Leica, less value for customer. I might assume that the manufacturing cost of M is even lower than ME… Besides this, nothing against the adoption of a third party EVF, but again, in the price policy I see the same approach you can find in Leica's compact cameras against Panasonic ones. Don't you feel they take us for a ride?
Can't wait to see results of the new "M" CMOS 24mp sensor with M glass on still & video. I supplement my Canon pro system with the M9 and lens-for-lens, i do see a difference in optical quality, especially wide open. What has kept me from using the M9 on a more frequent basis is the lower MP count, high ISO noise levels and the lack of "tethering", all now improved and available on the M. Tethering is huge for me when a client want's to see images "now", specifically high-volume portrait shoots.
Has anyone been at Sigma's booth? How is the new DP1 Merrill?
The New M: The M decisions make sense to me. They want to preserve the classic mechanical rangefinder because this matches their manual-focus glass. Add an EVF if you want for lenses outside the 35-50 range or leave it off if you want. This would allow Leica to finally simplify back to the three framelines of the M3 era, and the 90mm frameline isn't very useful on the .72 finder anyway, so just make it two framelines. The new M plus EVF is also the first full-frame body that will take a wide variety of legacy glass with adapters. Sure beats the Visoflex!
Sony RX-1: They probably should have added an EVF here. However, I appreciate Steve's notion that we're getting a great 35mm lens and a great sensor for a whole lot less than an M9 and 35mm Summicron! And, not much more than an NEX7 with the Zeiss 24/2, which is also a lot bigger, and DX size! Heck, just the Zeiss 35/2 Biogon M-mount itself is over $1000. Gripe about the lack of VF if you want, or just get a Voigtlander 35mm viewfinder, pop it on top, and make pictures. On the other hand, use the Fuji X100 for $800 used, which delivers a fabulous 12mp.
Sony NEX-6: Still refining the NEX series. The Full-Frame NEX is what people are really waiting for, to use with legacy glass. The problem with FF NEX is they would have to consider a whole new lens line, a decade-long project. But, they could have released a full-frame NEX with just one (removable) prime lens, it would have been fine.
Full-Frame releases: FF is popular this year. I guess people want an "aspirational" model. But, the only real purpose of FF is to use with legacy lenses and a wider set of lens choices. If you can live with DX-series lenses and lower ISOs, you can already get 24mp in DX for less than $1000. Alas, most FF is now going toward less megapixels. Yes, the dynamic range and high ISOs are better, but you can just shoot your D3200 at ISO100 and get great results. If you want to shoot in low light, just convert to 50% (6mp) files, which is enough for most low light/candid/handheld shooting. If you can't live with 6mp, then why not just find some better lighting? The only FF camera which really makes sense to me is the NIkon D800, which is pushing into medium-format territory. Otherwise, my interests are pretty much satisfied with DX-sensor cameras.
My conclusion: I'm tempted by either the Nikon D3200 or a used NEX7 for slow, landscapey work likely with a tripod, printed to 12×18 or larger. Here, the 24mp would be a plus. I'd probably use either with legacy Nikon manual-focus glass, 20mm/28mm/50mm. The D800 is also on the list, but the move from 24mp to 36mp isn't enough to get the credit card out for. I'll wait for 50+ mp (same pixel density as 24mp DX), although the improved dynamic range of the D800 is something to consider. Otherwise, my X100 and venerable D90 (for its great handling), both at a quality 12mp, are fine for any handheld stuff. For Leica fun, I'll use my M2/DR Summicron, which got a lot of use last summer with Acros 100.
No need for shopping this year.
I am so much confused with all this Camera-Stuff, the options drive me crazy and I cannot find a solution. I go out for Sundayshooting with my old Minolta SRT101, my favourite camera – but I want a Camera as the Minolta SRT101 (Size, f1.7 etc.) in a Digital-Fullframe-Body. I am sure a Canon 6D with some L-Lense would have the IQ I want to have but maybe its too big&heavy. Am I stucked in Leica M (I could at least afford it but I am no professional) or do you think entering Digital-Imaging with a crop-sensored Fuji X-E1 is better for me? I hesitate Fuji lenses will be working with a future-made Fuji Fullframe-Sensor, right? Would be very happy to give a hint. In any case I want interchangeable lens system.
Buy a Sony Nex (according to your budget) and an adapter and continue using your Minolta glass. The Nex cameras are reasonably cheap, the peaking mode is invaluable with focusing of manual lenses.
In general, I am always surprised of extreme and definitive positions of photo enthusiasts, I could say almost rigid, without offending anyone. Please, do not be so afraid to question your certainties.
A positive tip to share: when you need to evaluate two alternatives and make a choice (to buy or not, this model x or this one, etc.), try this approach which is a simple variation of the conventional (obsolet?) question "What are the pros and cons?".
Think in a more positive way: "What is holding me", "What is pushing me".
In other words, for me, this full frame compact Sony RX1, whitout EVF, with FF is a wonderful opportunity to renew the way I take photographies. All of that really is pushing me… to pre-order.
something else for you to push or pull on re: the RX1. I know it's minor, but technically it isn't quite a full frame camera.
Imaging Sensor : 35mm full-frame (35.8mm × 23.9mm) ExmorTM CMOS Sensor, aspect ratio 3:2
Well said, enjoy your new RX1
I almost feel like none of the manufacturers will ever create a "a full-fledged 100% "what-we-want" camera" just to keep us buying other "close, but no cigar" products. I mean, how could they not get the feedback by now? (Forums, Blogs etc)
Fuji has come close with the x100, but we need full frame and interchangeable lens
Sony RX1 is close, but we need interchangeable lens, more than 1/2000 shutter speed and built-in EVF
Leica M is too expensive, no built-in EVF just a wall wart to go on top
Ricoh, stop it! Yes, it's innovative, but seriously.
Canon doesn't seem interested, maybe because they didn't come up with the mirrorless idea. Their attempt is not worth mentioning.
I was originally excited by the photokina announcements, but have since felt disappointed after reading the details and specs on these cameras, so close. Just not enough to make me want to pre-order at this time. I have no idea what they are thinking, its starting to get frustrated. I'll wait for Steve's reviews, maybe that will sway me one way or another.
Perhaps creating "a full-fledged 100% "what-we-want" camera" could be seen as 'end game' to these manufacturers. Its like creating a light-bulb that lasts for a very long time, it could be done, but light-bulb makers won't do it because they need to sell light-bulbs.
Leica M is the closest thing we have to a digital camera that we could hold on to for years and reduce the G.A.S. The manufacturers want it that way…sucks to be us.
My only complain is — "Sony A99 available end october or early nov" is way too slow … ppl are using D600 now… :( Sony, please get ur feets together ~
I was wondering why the focus points all cramp in the middle and the buffer of the A99 doesnt seem to hold the 6fps more than 4secs :(
Hmmm…I am not a Sony Guy…but the RX1 is the most intriguing camera of Photokina.
I am a Canon guy…but "M" is apparently for "Mediocre Mess". How could a company with that much money and tech make something so disappointing.
All in all…I have decided to continue using my extensive MFT Kit and my 5DIII Kit (with limited primes as I was holding out for the 24-70mm II, but that is getting VERY mixed reviews…and at that price….ummm…no Canon.)…
Decided to shoot with what I have and buy some sound equipment with my spare cash…better ROI right now…and my ears are smiling more than my eyes!
You can bet the "medicore mess" will sell a boatload more cameras than the RX-1. There are holes in the Rx-1ès armor and the price is too high, there are not enough 2 thousand dollar camera customers in the world to go around, and the RX-1 costs more than 2 grand. RX-1- DOA.
Just because something sells it doesn't make it GREAT.
The Canon M is like a Pet Rock! :-)
Leica M – GAME CHANGER.
I have heard that the sensor is out of this world and will blow EVERY other CMOS out of the water. The others are going to have to do alot of catching up. Again.
Hello Steve,
I wonder if, when it comes time to test the NEX 6, you'll be carrying out another wide angle comparison of legacy lens performance. It was this very useful test on the NEX 7 that ultimately convinced me to choose the Ricoh GXR-M to go with my 25mm ZM biogon. If the 6 performs like the 5N I'll be really interested in this model, especially as things have fallen suspiciously quiet in Ricohland post-Photokina.
Thanks a lot.
Very much looking forward to Steve's X-E1 review. I love my Fuji X100 and like others here wonder what would make us upgrade to an X200. I feel the X100 will be with me for a long time. If Fuji produce a full frame camera and the new lens range it would require, that could have the potential to be one of the most exciting developments in the digital age to date. Fingers crossed on that one.
What about the new Sony A99 claiming to be the lightest full frame interchangeable lense camera? Any thoughts?
Having a fast 85mm lense from Nikon, Canon or Zeiss on the Leica M could be very strong for portraits at the fraction of the cost of a Leica Summicron 90mm.
Considering all the new improvements of firmware of the X100, do you think the X-E1 will make better photos? or even be faster?
Seems that in terms of lense, the X100 is still better (if considering fix). the integration of cam-lens in a fix lense camera it is unbeatble.
and let us not forget the hybrid OVF that X-E1 doesn't have.
if i am not mistaken Steve wrote in one of his articles that he likes BIG sensor with SMALL pixell count.
I guess because its less prone to noise/moire (shrink too many pixel on the sensor = more chance for noise). like NEX7 vs NEX5N.
the x100 might has a perfect ratio.
however, perhaps the new sensor on the XPRO (E1 too), is just plain better, regadless of pixel count.
What do you think?
cant wait for Steve test…
The lens on the X100 is too small for the sensor, it doesn't cover it well and what you get is vignetting and its is very soft in the corner. At f/2 the lens is very soft in the center as well, I feel that this whole lens-sensor integration mambo jambo is bull but it worked for marketing… don't get me wrong, it still produce great images but the X-E1 will be better, just like the Pro-1 is from IQ point of view. The lack of AA filter over the sensor will also produce sharper images and the available glass is top notch.
The firmware updates did improve the X100 but it is still slow and manual focus is still unfriendly.
I doubt if it is possible to make it any better due to the lens construction. If they made it a bit bigger and have IF instead of having the front element moving, they could have achieved faster AF.
After the last firmware update, the X100 AF got to the same speed as of the Panasonic GF-1 with the 20mm f/1.7 lens which is slow to focus….
If there will ever be a X200 or X300 with a fixed 18mm f/2 lens (28mm equivalent) with fast AF and friendly MF it could be perfect…
As for the hybrid VF, if the EVF is good enough then the OVF is redundant.
I have recently purchased the X-Pro 1. I have been using film cameras prior for street (Rollei 35T and M6 with rigid cron 50). The X-Pro 1 allows me to shoot low light and wide open. With the Rollei, I shoot at f5.6 and fixed the focus at 4ft. Fast but hit and miss. With the M6, normally I want to shoot wide open. Hence I'm much much slower with focusing and metering. For me the Rollei is the fastest, but with limitation of f5.6 and daylight shooting. In addition, it is small and stealthy. If I don't care about bokeh, the X-Pro 1 will be blazing fast. Unfortunately I have seen what the 35 f1.4 can do, and that is what I crave nowadays. Wide open low light pics with bokeh light balls.
p/s – bgood, what broke in your X-Pro 1?
Bokeh is aesthetic quality of out of focus rendering. It is an attribute of the lens. Shallow DOF does not automatically mean good or pleasing bokeh.
Sony RX1 the goods : Full Frame that sizes like an APSC Camera, leaf shutter in the lens nearly silent, dedicated lens closest as possible to the sensor (No Focal plane in between), no dust.
Sony RX1 the bads : Sensor with anti-aliasing filter, no built in EVF for the price, but no room for it in this small size… be patient for RX2, may be, but a little bigger (Don't mind if just a little bit bigger)
Fuji X-E1 the goods : No anti-aliasing filter on the sensor, size is good, built is very good, the lenses are the best, nice EVF, good APSC sensor
Fuji X-E1 the bads : shutter sound is high because of the mechanical focal plane shutter in the camera … Fuji should have done as the Nikon V1 : one mechanical shutter + one electronic shutter giving the choice of silent shooting, as well.
… and I should have added : be patient for both mechanical + electronic shutters.. may be with next Fuji X-E2 …
In my opinion in today's world and especially under the ecistence of a camera like Leica M series, a full frame camera no matter dslr or RF, has to have the feature of lens interchangability. At the first glance I liked the news that Sony ginally launched a small FF camera but when I saw that the lens was fixed and attached to the camera, I was shocked. If a company wants to produce a portable full frame camera, another point they need yo eork on is definitely the size of the lenses! And it deems to be that esprcially Sony and Canon is not working seriously for any improvement in this area, either. As a future potential "to-be" user for portable FF cameras I really would like to see much smaller lenses from any manufacturer like ones Leica has. In fact, I have proposal to Mr. Huff today: why don't you start a special section where we (the people eho can't effort a Leica M but wants to have a full frame digital camera) send our wishes what we want to see in a mirrorless full frame camera and finally declare to the whole world manufacturers THIS IS WHAT STEVE HUFF READERS WANT TO SEE!
What do you think Steve about this idea of mine? Even if they don't take it seriously at least we users can make a kind of "manifesto" about this issue into the world of photography!
I can't say that I can see why the Fuji X-E1 has any more soul than the NEX-6. They're pretty similar in most ways.
I think what I was looking for is a kind of M7/MP duo in digital. That means a M with all bells and whistles, which they created, and a MP version of the M with same CMOS sensor (as they claim that it is a better sensor), maybe the small but improved screen, and a super reduced housing, like the ME but in black. The nice thing of the M7 and MP is that they can create in the same outcome but the way you get there is different.
With the M/ME duo you not only decide on busy or reduced Gestalt, classic color or not, you get different files as well. I think I just want the best sensor possible in the most reduced body possible. And while I like the simplicity of the ME (not the color) I want a 2012 sensor in it. D!RK
I agreed with the MP portion of this. If nothing less, Leica should stop putting logos on the cameras, knowing that users don't want it or wish to hide it. Just create classic looking MP type cameras…we'll still know its a leica.
I pre ordered the NEX 6. This will be my first ILC Camera as I'm coming from the P&S world. I hope that I could get it soon before Christmas.
RX-1- over priced, missing key feature such as EVF, body too small with lens too big, looks like toliet sitting on a thick mat. Sony will say EVF is not asked for when folks who dont care for EVf buy this camera, if there are any buyers at all.
Fuji xe-1 – Design is better, price is better but no OVF but should get ppl on the fence about the x-cameras to bite.Will steal customers from m43 and NEX. X and NEX the only good viable options for serious CSC's.
Leica M, ME,same old stuff.- will mae some sales from same Leica customer pool, so one or another will lose or gain some sales but essesntially making more of the same cameras for the same amount of net sales return, in other words, m43 strategy.
Panasonic GH3- Now it's almost as big as a dslr with a grip, it's almost come full circle to what m43 said it wasnt to begin with, a dslr…whats next, a mirror inside the camera? Cannikon must be laughing their asses off. " Buy m43, the only difference is that we dont have a mirror, slightly smaller than a dslr and with an EVF and it will cost the same if not more." The only ones m43 is fooling are the m43 fanboys.m43 is nearing the end and running out of options and credibility.
Canon M, Small, capable, got the Canon name, Canon price ,for folks who don't go on this site, which means it will sell good and Canon will laugh all the way to the bank without even trying.
Nikon 1- is small, its got nice colors, it's got the Nikon name and it appeals to folks who dont go on this site, so it will keep selling well for an easy risk free effort from Nikon.
Samsung NX- Samsungs too busy with the phone market and others stuff to really care about cameras and their cameras are below the standard but lenses are truly excellent and can go for half price when on sale…something you will never find with other makers. For low budget users and you cant fault a prime lens like the 16mm, 20mm and 30mm on akle for 199.99 dollars each. Try that with other brands, you cant get even a cheapo zoom for that price. The NX line may not make it through another few years in N. America.
Olympus epl5, epm2- the best looking of all the pens, best performing as they use the same Sony sensor as Om-d but still more of the same and no EVF, please buy om-d cause it has EVF but is the same camera, in a shape you don't like. Someone at Olympus is trying too hard to keep his job. When you have to buy sensors from Sony and not your ally, Panasonic, you know somethings wrong. m43 is nearing the end and treading water hard to stay alive from now on.
Sony a99- Same old Minolta. Mind of Minolta still poisoning Sony. A99 is mre of the same from Minolta, flagship model not as good or full spec'd like flagship Canikons. As result, no pros will jump ship to Sony, as result, will remain like what the maxxum 9 and 9x was for their time, good camera but not as good as the big boys, not a big boy camera, and most camera buying noobs dont want to buy a non big boy camera. Sorry Sony, only champions allowed on this podium, armchair fighters have no place in the ring. Sonyminolta keep bring knives to a gun fight, failed miserably before and will fail again. No thanks to Sonyminolta for not trying …again. Next Sony attempt will have a 9 or 7 designation, as decreed by Minolta execs.
Pentax- Does anyone care about Pentax anymore? dslr's not worth noting anyymore as there are so many other better choices. The Q, should be sold at toys R us. The k01, too many pentax employees trying too hard to keep their jobs. Pentax will be sold again and will need to change it's name to reflect what it's become.. a Moneypit.
The only camera I own is a V1 and I bought it in part from research that was done from this website. The quote, "…it appeals to folk who don't go on this site…" is a bit off, especially considering how much Steve and some of his guest article contributors enjoyed and wrote about this camera.
I was really looking forward to Canon's entry into the mirrorless market- I've seen video(s) of the M's focussing speed and I don't know why it's as slow as it is-fuji, oly, panny etc have very impressive speeds but not canon-I wonder if they entered the mirrorless market so as not to be left behind in this category of camera sales-but are afraid it'll compete with the much more expensive DSLR bodies and thus the lesser performance? I think it would be a stellar performer if only it had similar focus speeds as the aforementioned cameras…
can't wait to see more hands-on use and reviews of the Fujifilm X-E1. Glad Steve is reviewing this one. Hmmm…..a black/chrome body with a set of Fuji and/or Zeiss primes would look good under the Christmas tree this year. :)
I like the statement Caimi made … reflects my thoughts. Would not consider it without a built in VF. Have used a NEX 5N and understand their importance. The add on VF defeats the purpose of making the camera so small and I feel it could be easily injured. I would pay the cost for Leica if again it had a built in VF. I care nothing about Rangefinders ( thats just me ). Eliminating the RF portion and replacing it with an EVF would have been my choice or as stated above offering 2 different M cameras. I hope Fuji adds Focus Peaking. At that point I would purchase Fuji and wait until they come out with a FF version. Hope manufactures read some of these discussions.
I'm betting on the Fuji E-X1 with my pre-order to replace my X Pro-1 which broke and is now with Fuji for repair. I have the 3 Fuji primes and still like my X100. I'm just hoping the autofocus is fast enough. Reports on the E-X1 viewfinder sound very promising. I'm not willing to invest in a Leica system, and none of the other cameras interest me. The Canon 5D3 is my big gun when I'm willing to carry it.
I was also at Photokina today. Took a two and a half hour train ride from Amsterdam to Cologne. I was most interested in seeing, feeling and testing the two new Leica cameras (M and M-E), the Fujifilm X-E1, the Sony RX1, the Pentax K-5 II (and IIs) and the new Nikon D600. My thoughts… The Pentax K-5 II and IIs are really nice cameras. Not heavy, weather sealed, great IQ. Just like the original K-5, but a bit better still. I can't say much about the RX1 because I wasn't allowed to hold it in my hands and test it. The Nikon D600 is a great camera for the price (full frame for about $ 2000), but I didn't like it. Probably, because I use a D700 and the build of it is just much, much better. The D600 felt really plasticky to me. On the upside, though… it's affordable and relatively light. The Leica M-E looks great and, according to the Leica representative I spoke to, is a toned down version of the M9. And that a reasonable price (for Leica, at least). Then… the Leica M. I was fascinated about it. I held it in my hands for about ten minutes and loved it right away. There's an OV, an EVF (has to be bought separately), there's live view, and there's the option of zoom focusing/focus peaking on the LCD screen. What more can one ask for? All these options with the well known Leica body design (similar to the previous models) make it an outstanding camera. Just a pity I can't afford it. However, the camera I was most impressed about, considering its options, price, build and EVF (the best made until now… 2.36M dots!) is the Fujifilm X-E1. I used it for nearly fifteen minutes with the 35mm 1.4 lens and the new 18-55mm 2.8-4 lens (a great zoom lens, I must say!) and it just felt right. The positioning of the buttons is great, the weight is perfect (660 grams for the camera with the 18-55mm lens), the speed… fast enough!, and great IQ. This is the camera I will buy immediately when it's for sale in November. The EVF is really incredible. So clear, so easy to see what you want to photograph. Until now, I never had a camera with an EVF, but the one in the X-E1 is truly amazing. I also tried the OM-D at Photokina to compare and the X-E1 just blows it away with their EVF. My current gear (just to give you an impression of where I'm at): a Nikon D700 with 15mm, 35mm, 50mm and 85mm lenses, and a Leica M8 (bought used for $ 1700 a year ago) with Zeiss 35mm and 50mm lenses. Fujifilm X-E1 it IS this November!
What about the Panasonic GH3, the Olympus E-PL5 and the *great* new glass coming out for m43'rds.
RX1- Looks great on paper but way too over priced for what it is (a fixed lens compact that will be obsolete and will not have anything to pass on to the next model). Hopefully this is the camera that sparks the FF mirror less compact movement and we see some real competitive products in response to this.
Leica M/M-E – Im not the target market for this so this isn't even on my radar, i guess the only good thing I see here is that the M-E will make the M9 available to people interested in that sort of system.
Fuji X-E1 – The lack of the optical VF really kills this system for me. I was really hopping fuji would push the boundries with something new but it just feels like they are "playing it safe" for now. Hopefully sony's move make fuji move into a FF X200.
EOS M – lol
I am truly astonished by all the negative comments about the Sony RX1, such as "..Looks great on paper but way too over priced for what it is (a fixed lens compact that will be obsolete and will not have anything to pass on to the next model)".
Just wind back a couple of years, and think of the Leica X1 ..almost the same name!
People here were falling over themselves to say how wonderful it was, how sweet it was, what a great experience it would be to use a compact – though fixed-lens – Leica.
The X1 was an APS camera ..but so many people here just -s-w-o-o-n-e-d- over it.
It had no viewfinder, just a rear screen. It had a fixed lens: 24mm f2.8 (equivalent to 35mm lens on full frame ..but with 24mm f2.8 depth-of-field). It had a poor ISO range (ISO 100-3200). But the opinion here was that Paradise had arrived on earth (..though my own opinion was, and remains, that it was a "silly" camera – boy how people got angry at that comment!) ..It had sluggish autofocus, and hopeless manual focus.
People here went crazy over the sluggish auto-focus, and poor manual focus APS Fuji X100, too, with its 23mm f2 (35mm equivalent) lens (with 23mm f2 d-o-f) though it had a double-duty 'hybrid' viewfinder.
Now here's a similar camera from Sony, but with (a) a proper full-frame sensor, (b) a Zeiss-branded proper 35mm f2 (with 35mm f2 depth-of-field), (c) apparently good high ISO from 100-25600 – boostable to 102,400.
And what do people say? "..No EVF; hopeless". "No way I'll buy this" – even though a hi-res add-on viewfinder fits on the hot-shoe.
It appears eminently more useful than either the X1 or the X100 (and the follow-on Leica X2) ever were, but people here say "No way, José!"
I'm just incredulous..
But it says Sony on the front, that makes it less.
Looks and name are more important than any performance could ever be.
I like the the camera, but then I like my 5n and what the hell do I know.
I really found this amazing:
Sony RX1: It was on display but they would not let me touch the camera. They also showed the separate EVF which looks quite ugly on the camera IMO. I asked the rep why they did not include a VF. He responded that all Cybershots would not have VF's… I told him that this would not make sense to me. The target group that understands a fixed prime lens on a full frame sensor wants a VF, especially for the price. In my eyes, once again Sony marketing rules prevented a product from making complete sense. Making the smallest body apparently was seen more relevant than including a key feature. He responded that they would certainly use customer feedback for future developments.
I like the big ugly EVF on my 5n.
I wear glasses and find the ability to swivel the EVF up is absolutely necessary to comfortable shooting. But I know, I know, it's looks rather than function. I'm old school, I buy as much camera as my budget will allow and I consider it a tool, not a fashion statement.
i agree with david. it seems that there is a biased thinking from the general photo community with Sony cameras. Up until now, sony is still viewed as an electronics company which cant stand as a serious camera maker. Well i believe otherwise as evidenced by all the revolution they are making in photography and video industry.
+1 to all of the above
I honestly don't understand why people feel that they need (not simply prefer, but actually NEED) an EVF on a full-frame camera with a 35mm lens! I shoot birds and animals with 1D and 1Ds and, yes I do need their view-finders as I have to work with long tele-photos.
But how do people envisage using the RX-1 with its "missing" EVF? For birds in flight?
For street/casual shooting, my NEX F3 is champion. I never felt the need for EVF when I'm using the 16mm, or the two Sigmas (19 and 30mm). Quick decisions, steady hand and being able to chat/smile/maintain eye contact with your subject is much more important than pretending to be Bresson. Why would the RX-1 be problematic in this sort of context?
I would also like someone to explain clearly why they think the EOS M is rubbish. I have not seen or handled one, but the negative buzz seems to suggest that this is the worst product ever. Any informed opinions would be appreciated.
I suppose if you often merely point the camera in the general direction of the subject and trip the shutter hoping for the best, a viewfinder is not all that important!
A bit of sarcasm, yes, but a viewfinder of some sort really is important. It is doubly important for cameras with obviously serious intentions.
Thank you for your valuable comment James (now, this is sarcasm).
As I said above "Quick decisions, steady hand and being able to chat/smile/maintain eye contact with your subject is much more important than pretending to be Bresson".
This is a lot of work! Could you please explain (with examples if possible) why lack of view finder will stop you from accomplishing all of the above?
Or do you need a VF so that you can prove your "serious intentions" (whatever on earth that means)?
I think it's the perceived "cultural" value of the camera that is at play here. If you remember, when fuji release both the x100 and xpro 1 most people say it's overpriced because it's slow, quirky etc. but compared to the Leica x1 both camera still is the better choice and cheaper at that in terms of value and performance.
In the end, people think like these… If others see me with a Leica there is already an inherent value integrated to what my capabilities as a photographer even though they haven't seen any of my work (they are buying into the reputation of the camera and it's famous users, more than their real capabilities) Even a negative reaction of people in the know is still a positive in the mind of the owner. A good photographer can say, "he can only afford that camera because he has the money etc. but he has a talent of a monkey." In the mind of the owner he perceived this as just jealousy because he has the money and can afford it at will. Of course, this is not true to all Leica users, but just look at Hollywood stars nowadays packing a Leica as if it was a fashion accessory. Some have real photographic chops but for most of them it's just a sign of affluence.
Conversely, if somebody buys another less "culturally valued product" it seems more work for them because they have more to prove in terms of their quality of work or photographs (it has to be that good! to prove they have made a sound economical choice of their purchase). Lest they suffer for being branded to be just a wanna-be.
Of all of these the cameras the Sony RX1 seems the most promising but it is too compromised. Unfortunately, I will have to pass on the Sony. So that leaves me with Fuji X-E1 and the Nikon D600. This is such a toss up for me. I am starting my own street photography business in NYC and the form and usability factor of the the Fuji is exemplary. I own the X100 and love it but is the image quality equal to full framed DSLR's? I don't think so. The interesting part is how APS-C sensors compare to full framed 35mm sensors when the photos are printed to paper. I own an Epson R3000 printer and the resolution is outstanding. With that said, I printed 13″ X 19″ inch photos taken with the Fuji X100 and the Nikon D800. I could not tell the difference.
RX1 no press pass
the way i see it,,, the RX1 is very compact, and bends the rules on what type of cameras you can sneak into venues and concerts without need for a press pass. in that sense, its so much better that it has a fixed leaf shutter lens. i expect it to beat the iso performance of the D600, and therefore beating also the D4. only wished it had a 24mm fixed lens instead of 35mm
A 24mm would be a bit on the wide side for general shooting.
I have been considering my second camera body option (aim = small/light/carry-anywhere). Something caught my attention which many enthusiasts might overlook… And it is… The Oly E-PM2!!
Before all of you call me mad (or worse…) let me state my case. I know full well the lack of proper controls and smaller sensor (and IMO ugly P&S looks) might put many people off. But your second or third camera is always and by definition about compromises. The little cheap E-PM2 has the same sensor and processor as the E-M5 in a camera body the same size as 2 iPhones stacked on top of each other. Taking this out with my trusted Oly 45mm or Panny 20mm would be very lightweight & small and we know the IQ from the E-M5 is pretty decent!
Agreed AC. For me it's all about compactness and quality. With a swivel EVF this is the perfect camera for everywhere if it can produce EM5 quality picks.
Sony has managed to create the camera we all asked for while simultaneously making sure we won't buy it. I can't imagine spending $2700 on a camera without a viewfinder no matter what it is capable of.
That's the bottom line.
No matter what anyone says about "what Sony has achieved with this camera", it is unusable for anyone who knows "WHAT they did".
Dumb camera.
Hi Steve , why you bash the EVF of the LEICA? Because it´s a rebranded EVF fom Olympus? The VF-2 was outstanding when released in 2010(?). Tested at the Photokina 2010!. Plastic ??? Do you think if would better if made from Titanium ? You are a friend of minimum weight to carry in regards of cam gear. Yes or not? Oly will build a new model maybe the VF-X5 which will be great ! But be sure… no Titanium body!
I was at the Photokina at the "public days".
Never saw so much ignorand sales peoples at the booth of Nikon and Canon.
Sony was fine introducing their "full frame" 35mm Sensor DSLR.
The RX1 sales peoples were all upset if you asked them anything or critizing the cam.
Best of all was the OLYMPUS team. Got a OMD-5 MFT for a couple of hours for test on the show XD card was a give away. Great!!
BTW the LEICA sales people were great too !!! They spent a lot for me to show the latest M´s!!!
B.R Wolfgang
I had a similar experience at the Canon booth. When I asked the guy about the high ISO performance of the 6D he said "What do I now? I only got announced yesterday!" Can you believe that?
Leica rep was great and they had no safety leashes on their cameras! He only go cold feet when I started asking about future developments like an EVF only version.
Outside of RD1, M8, M9, for me the classic designs & desirables have been Digilux2, EP1, X100.
XE1 design seems to bring much of them all together.
Jupiter 3 50/1.5 (early 1950's) & Jupiter 9 85/2 on a Xtrans should look magik.
I wish that Fuji XE1 had come out six months earlier, before I sold off most of my old gear and changed systems! It looks to be exactly what I wanted – an Olympus EP1 with a built in viewfinder and a lens selection which is just proper! My one Fuji camera I had was junk and put me off for fifteen years but, now, they seem to have their act together more than anyone.
Agree with the RX1 comments. Amazingly bold, attention-grabbing camera but, to actually be desirable, it needs a viewfinder which doesn't bolt on top!!! What are the people smoking in that Sony office????
agree, I almost regret having got the Pro-1 if I'd known this was coming. If ever Fuji put a FF sensor on it, focus peaking and a converter for M mount it will walk off the shelves.
The RX1
@ had some wonderful prints and movies on the show floor. It did inspire confidence into the average user. For the rest of us the viewfinder was a no-brainer.
@ No view-finder, no money. Sorry Sony!
The Nex 6
@ has a pathetic start-up time. I tried 4 of them and all exhibited a start-up lag that made me move my tent elsewhere.
The M
@ was the star of the show for me. It`s why I went there in the first place, and I`ll probably be biased.
@ Heavier than expected (I never held a digital Leica before out of pure stubbornness until this one). All those new features are welcomed.
@ For whomever thinks that only R lenses will be used on this body … I have a newsflash: adapters for all sorts of bayonets will soon see daylight. I already set my eyes on a Konica AR to Leica M adapter for all that sweet glass that I collected the past 2-3 years.
@ ISO 6400 is very good.
@ I do hate the over-sized Leica logo. At this rate, by 2020, it will be half the size of the camera.
@ I`m looking forward to the 100th Anniversary Special Limited Supercalifragilistic editions that are bound to hit the market next year. LHSA anyone? Back to an actual M-P … maybe?!
The X-E1
@ Pretty convincing camera. The price is still a bit on the high side but for 1300 Euros, at least it comes with a decent zoom lens.
@ The electronic viewfinder was good but it still has that small rolling shutter lag.
@ Good lens roadmap and current lineup. Good marketing strategy to show-off this camera with a list of compatible Leica lenses. I did find this a bit funny as the list had Summiluxes that cost 3x as much as the camera. But hey … who am I to judge marketing strategies.
The EOS M
@ No way.
The D600 and Canon 6D
@… do we care? No matter what we say, they will still sell bazillions of those to wedding photographers and photographer wannabees.
The new Hasselblad Lunar
@ What a joke! 4500 Euros for probably the most uncomfortable camera in the world.
The star of 2012 Photokina was without a doubt Samsung Galaxy Camera.
The best marketing strategy was by Nikon with their trade-show bags that everyone carried around. Pure genius.
Vlad – re The D600 and Canon 6D. Yes I care. My best camera is my 5D MK1. I use it in preference to my X100 when I can. If I have an assignment the Full Frame SLR is the way to go (I use it for real estate and scenic calendar work and personal use). The X100 is my walk around camera. Feels a bit point and shooty after using the 5D for a while. The SLR is just a superior tool compared to other choices (maybe a FF rangefinder is as good or better but I haven't used one). I paid US$2,400 about 2 years ago for a mint second hand 5D with 24-105 L lens. Good value.
I agree with Doug here Vlad. SLR's have there place and have provided me and many other people with great photos and memories. At the end of the day it doesn't really matter where the photo cam from if brings stimulation to people. The 6D looks to be a good development for Canon.
For the record i personally have sold my SLR kit for x100, only because I wanted to de-clutter!
I have pre-ordered the X-E1, hopefully I'll get it before the end of the year…
I had the X100 for a month and I liked and disliked it…
I also tried the PRO1 and it felt better and worst then the X100
There is no perfect camera but c'mon… for what we pay for, we should get more.
It looks like the X-E1 fixes most of my dislikes, too bad the resolution of the LCD is not higher and I can't understand for the life of me how focus peeking hasn't become a standard in all mirror-less and hi-end compact cameras, I hope that Fuji could add it in firmware updates. I would also rather see a dust/splash proof camera and lenses.
Very disappointed with M43, I loved my ex GF-1 but it needed a better sensor in terms of high ISO performance and dynamic range. The EM-5 looks good on that aspect but I can't "feel" this camera, still waiting for a GF-1 style camera with a good sensor and a built-in EVF.
XE1 is as the spirit of Digilux2, Digilux3. Heck even looks like Digilux2.
All Leica had to do was release a FF EVF MILC = M $3k (possibly $2.5k)
Keep the Rangefinder M = M10 (M-E)
& ofcourse keep Monochrom.
i still use the digilux2! … cant complain. its big, yes, and with an old 5 mp CCD sensor…. but it does an amazing jobs.
i do miss sometime a DOF, and for that i have DP2 which does an amazing 3D feel (only artistic photo, as its quite slow and not very fun to use)
I had the Digilux 2 as well and I absolutely loved it. The lens on that camera was terrific. IMO, all Leica had to do was update that camera with modern electronics and price competitively.
Agree with Ralph and Steves comments. RX1 should definitely have an EVF. X-E1 looks compelling. NEX 6 too but where are the lenses. Fuji has a great lens roadmap. Leica needs to come into the 21st century. Canon EOS M is a joke. Curious about a X100 replacement. How will they improve it? Sure there are still some firmware tweaks that could be made (eg instant access to turn off auto ISO and to manually override it. Ideally and ISO knob on top). I would prefer the aperture ring to not have the hard to locate-by-feel bumps but be a knurled ring all around as per S100 or RX100. Other than that what? The sensor from the X Pro 1? 18-55 fixed zoom???? Also like to see a new sensor for Canons DSLR line. Improvement needed – especially in noise at high ISOs (above 800).
What could Fuji do to improve the x100? Easy. Focus speed.
The new Fuji is the closest of all of these to hitting the ball out of the park, at least for me. Should be a big seller
A great camera with problematic to little or no RAW support. I guess everyone here is a JPEG shooter.
That concerns me too. As I shoot raw exclusively, I've been watching progress (or lack thereof) on the raw front for the X-Pro1. Has there been any? Undoubtedly, competent raw support will arrive, but I'm not dipping my toes into the Fuji X pool until it's fully warmed.
According to an interview with several Fuji execs at Photokina, Adobe, Apple, and DxO (and perhaps others) are working on support for raw output from X-Trans sensors. So be hopeful. :)
It's sad that the EOS-M is such a mediocre product. At least Nikon tried to do something interesting with the V1 (and made a nice little camera in the process). Canon doesn't seem to have put any effort into the EOS-M at all. The NEX-5R will mop the floor with it.
Hi Ralph, Thanks for your thoughts, I really wanted to go there too this year but I couldn't make it. When I read about the new Leica M I too felt a built in EVF would have been better. However seeing the picture of the M with the EVF in place, I would say that this EVF looks much more appropriate on and M body than it ever did on my Olympus EP3! (its the same EVF which Olympus use with just a different name on the front) Then I thought that at least we know the M will be using one of the best EVF's on the market and because it is replaceable, when a better version comes along, it will give your M experience a huge upgrade. And what happened next, Olympus announced they will be bringing out an amazing new EVF (which will certainly fit the M because it has to be compatible with the Oly Pens which all use the same connector) Apparently it uses some 'new technology' which for me is as exciting as the announcement of the M camera itself and it would be a safe bet that it will be a little smaller too:) I'm not sure if the implications of that announcement has hit home to future buyers of the M, but its great news for us.
I am glad Leica have adopted the Olympus connector because if they had built the EVF in or used one they had made in-house we would be waiting around for years for an improvement in an aspect which is fundamental to a rich user experience. Today I was helping someone get to know their DSLR, having not used an optical finder for a long time, it struck me how much I have come to rely on and enjoy the real-time exposure feedback one gets when using a good EVF as compared to an OVF. I was explaining exposure compensation to her and when I had to say, "then you just have to check if you compensated enough by reviewing the image on your LCD" I thought geez, when I shoot I 'know' its right when I take it because I am seeing the result in my EVF! One day we will all use EVF's and people will wonder what all the fuss was about, don't even get me started on Rangefinders:)
Hi Neil, IMO its great idea from LEICA not to invest (waste of time) in EVF. Olympus did a great job with their model VF-2. Being introduced two years ago you could image how good is was and still is. Both companies have to concentrate on waste money for gimmicks. LEICA was flat a couple of years ago so is or was Olympus. Regarding any kind of development in any kind of new EVF it will be a "win ..win situation".
Wolfgang R.
rx1 : sony camera have NO SOUL …
XE1: i'm gonna ditch my whole canon + L lenses system for a fuji X system
5D3 is great and 6D also but who wants to carry such a load
M: the price is a deal breaker ….
The photographer supplies the soul, not the camera.
Hey Chad! 100% true! Cameras can be handy tools, even outstanding ones but what can you achieve with them without some talent and experience?
BTW, Chad, I am still using my X100 alongside with my M9. They form a perfect combination for me. The X100 is small enough to always keep in the bag (or in a pocket) and its IQ is terrific. I think, together those two cameras keep my M10-related GAS pretty much in control. Sure, if anyone would give me the new M as a gift I'd gladly accept it and maybe even ditch my current gear in its favor. But I have a strong feeling this is not going to happen anytime soon, and I don't particularly like the idea of spending some extra money to facilitate the exchange myself. So, I'll hang on to my trusty M9 and X100 combination and be perfectly happy shooting and keeping that extra cash in my pocket (not for long, of course).
Greg Shanta
@pixelmixture I agree, I think only two modern digital camera manufacturers seem to imbue their cameras with soul and thats Olympus and Fuji – can't explain it, it something to do with how it feels to have one in your hand and shoot with it, and it is also about how the images look out of the camera. Anyone can produce a camera that give high resolution clean and technically accurate images these days (Sony is a perfect example) but just ask yourself why people love (I mean LOVE!) the old Polaroids and the new toy cameras and Instagram and the crazy filters that everybody builds into their cameras and phones now? It's because technically perfect photographs are soooo boring! Now put an old lens on an Olympus and somehow the world you see through the camera changes, this is not just nostalgia – it's using something that imparts it's own identity onto what you see as the photographer – it's something organic, something random – ask Sally Mann! :0)
Do you shoot RAW? Oly buys their sensors from Panasonic and Sony. There may be slight differences in how the sensors are used, but a RAW from a Sony sensor in an Olympus has the same essential soul when used in a Sony camera. Likewise other makers that buy sensors from Sony.
Digital cameras have measurable characteristics. Some are subtle, but most are not. Reading the DPR and DxO charts and others gives a very good idea what the resulting images will look like. If you prefer to call it soul, go right ahead, but that means something different to every person. I don't find bad af and orbs soulful, just underengineered. Sony and Panasonic are condemned as soulless because they have divisions that make computers and televisions. Fuji has soul because they make film, and Oly has soul because they sell mostly optical equipment and cameras dominate their consumer products, though their medical imagery group is far larger. Does an endoscope have soul? Cameras are engineered products, not works of art (external design excepted.)
Handling is another matter. Companies with less experience sometimes make mistakes a more experienced company wouldn't. Sony had Minolta engineers to kickstart their efforts, sometimes in the wrong direction, but I think they're doing just fine, lens selection and quality excepted, though I am not worried about that. It always takes time to design lenses. People were heaping praise on the X-Pro 1 when it had only three lenses, one of them bad. But they were Fuji so had soul.
I would love to have an NEX-6 with the 16-50 zoom, assuming it is optically OK. It's a very attractive range for a standard zoom, and the basis for a solid system. I expect Sony to replace the NEX-7 by the end of the year with something much more impressive and expensive, a competitor for both the GH3 and X-Pro 1. I think the NEX-6 was aimed mostly at the E-M5.
That's like saying a Mac with the same intel processor as a PC has the same soul. Or, basically the same Sony sensor in a Nikon has the same image look as in a Sony. Even within Sony, the raw files look different within the same family of sensors. With all due respect to dpr and dxo, that's hardly a substitute for people's eyes and subjective preferences.
As a former design engineer, when engineered products focus on function only, they tend to be high volume, low quality, mass produced crap, scraping the bottom layer of profitability. Why? Because people who recognize "soul" in a product are willing to pay for it. It has value to them far beyond the basic specs and utility you refer to.
Look at any highly successful high value added product. No matter if it's medical imaging, computing, automotive or cameras, they have a look, feel and, perhaps soul, that sets them apart from the competition.
Really bummed out about the EOS-M not living up to expectations. I own a Fujifilm X10 right now, was really hoping that one would be a great upgrade because of lower price point than XE-1.
Hmmm, no mention of the "star" of the show, the Hassleblad Lunar ??
Saw the Luna at the Hasselblad booth. I was not very impressed. It's not even close of being a product yet. The prototypes they showed behind glass looked like they were coming straight from the design shop. It seems like Hasselblad is not even adding their own lenses but this may change until they release.
While it is obvious that the Lunar (or "Lunatic", as I have already read somewhere) is a sorry joke, they DID have working cameras there that anyone could take in their hands and try out. Everything from the buttons to the menu is NEX-7, they changed the background graphic of the menu but that's all. They really want to sell this thing as a finished product.
I was very impressed, by the stupidity and desperation of Hassy'd designing team, that is.


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