text:
Over the course of any strong and lasting bull run, overhead price resistance will start to seem like the Loch Ness Monster–There is talk and rumors of its existence, but seeing it with your own eyes is quite another story.
As the market has taken out one significant price level after the next, the only major index not at all-time highs is the Nasdaq Composite, the unequivocal leader of the last secular bull market from 1982-2000. If you are in the camp that history rhymes, if not repeats, then the Nasdaq probably should not take out those all-time highs of 5,132 until sometime next decade. However, this time it may indeed be different, what with all of the macro and microeconomic arguments being scribbled about as to why that is the case.
Regardless of your stance on that issue, the monthly chart of the Nasdaq, below, reveals that once price left 2,900 in the dust late-last year, it has been a drift back up to the "Little Bighorn" 3,400-3,450 range. Little Bighorn, meaning the bulls' last stand as the dot-com bubble quickly morphed into the dot-com crash in 2000.
Specifically, the summer of 2000 may as well have been Last Stand Hill for the George Custer-esque tech bulls, as they sought to aggressively buy the dip after the March 2000 touch-and-reverse off those 5,132 highs. As you can see, those who bought and held that dip have only just now been made whole, some thirteen years later.
And so now the big test is upon us as the market returns to this sacred ground, where technology bulls at the turn of the century saw their legendary war hero status crumble into brazen gambling and steep losses. There has been a nice and easy void back up to these levels this year, a consequence of the sharp run-up and swift crash leaving little overhead supply until around 3,400.
But now we are back on hallowed ground.
8 Responses to "Back to Little Bighorn"
Nice photo: when I saw all the pipes my first thought this photo was from a recent iBC outdoor gathering (meant respectfully, of course).
Mr. Partridge
Which guy is you?
[…] Nasdaq comes upon some really critical, old school levels. (iBankCoin) […]
[…] a related note to my post last weekend about the Nasdaq's long-term current position, here we have the financials at another one. […]
[…] Updating this post from last month, the Nasdaq Composite pushed up through 3,500 before finding supply last week. This 3,400-3,500 area represent likely overhead supply in a major way, dating back to the dot-com bubble and crash (see that post for full analysis). […]
[…] that in mind, I want to circle back to a post I wrote on May 11th, in the midst of that melt-up where it seemed as though overhead resistance was routinely eschewed […]


text:
A treat for two!
The Package includes the following features:
* A 60 minute Massage for two in our double massage room (Swedish/Deep Tissue)
* 25 glorious minutes in a relaxing aromatic bath
* 2 glasses of chilled sparkling white wine
* Chocolate fondue
* Fresh fruit platter
* Free entry to the Inbal Health Spa including: fitness room, swimming pool and wet/dry sauna.
* Special gift - Massage candle
Price of package for two: 685 NIS
Book your Aromatic SPA for two now!
Call the Spa at 02 675 6609
Or send us mail at firstname.lastname@example.com

subset: commoncrawl


text:
Man Knocked Out With Beer Can At Family Party
So much for our theory of "A Family That Drinks Together Stays Together".
A Nebraska man is recovering after a late night family party ended with a full beer can being thrown at his head. The 43 year old needed four staples to close the wound.


text:
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text:
Guide Gear® Heavyweight Pullover Hoodie
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Give your exercise routine a leg up! This super-comfortable Pullover Hoodie is heavyweight, warm and as comfortable as anything you've ever worn! They won't bind, pinch or otherwise complicate high-activity maneuvers. Of course, there's nothing finer for more leisurely activity, too.
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- Drawstring hood cinches up against the cold and protects your neck
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- Machine wash / tumble dry. Imported.
Built to exact specifications, Guide Gear® stands for dependability, long-lasting quality and unmatched value! Guaranteed!
- Reviews
Guide Gear Heavyweight Pullover Hoodie is rated out of 5 by 10.Rated 5 out of 5 by TRISH from my shopping experience with your company is always easy and quick but your return policy is not right. if you return for refund you only pay shipping twice but if you just want another size of the same item you pay shipping charges three times. you have to ask yourself is it worth exchanging or just get a refund.Date published: 2014-04-23Rated 4 out of 5 by GREGORY A from fit like i thought it wouldDate published: 2014-01-31Rated 5 out of 5 by GREG from Good quality and sizing, nice weight,bought a crew in gray, liked it too.Date published: 2014-01-31Rated 5 out of 5 by TONY from Good gear for a good price! Thanks!Date published: 2014-01-22Rated 5 out of 5 by KATIE from Hoodie was great. My husband loved it, he says its really warm.Date published: 2014-01-21Rated 5 out of 5 by CHAD from good price for a warm pulloverDate published: 2014-01-19Rated 4 out of 5 by LARRY from I am satisfied with the item .Date published: 2014-01-19Rated 3 out of 5 by JOHN P from The sweatshirts are decent but they should also make a warmer thermal lined version for the cold weather ThanksDate published: 2014-01-11

 What is the composition of the material it is made from? Synthetic? Cotton? a blend of both? ratio of synthetic to cotton?

Asked by: Chris

 The sweatshirt is 100% polyester.
Answered by: Customer Service

Date published: 2014-10-24

2015-10-04T11:27CST

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text:
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I have a premium account so they gave me my own house in second life. I made some beanbag chairs in front of my fireplace, but I need some more furniture.
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text:
Universal Barcode Maker 6.6.10 User Reviews
A newer version of Universal Barcode Maker is available.Or, Learn More About Universal Barcode Maker
out of 5 user reviews
Results 1-5 of 5
"Nice easy barcode maker!"
Version: Universal Barcode Maker 6.6.5
Very easy to use, simple, straightforward, and does everything you want it to do.
Could do with some more intelligent advanced features, but hey, there are easy enough workarounds for all of them! Simple, easy-to-use software is better than overcomplicated, poorly designed software anyday.
Need a simple but powerful barcode maker? This is it!
Reply to this review Read reply (1)
"A good barcode label generator"
Version: Universal Barcode Maker 6.6.5
This program is a good choice to generate batch barcodes, its interface is clear, and easy for operation.
It is a shareware, not a freeware.
Use this program to product barcode is the easiest way that I know, you no need to design the barcode label, and it can use Windows printer, no need to buy a professional barcode printer.
"Did not fit the need for ISBN13+5 Bookland barcode"
Version: Universal Barcode Maker 6.5.2
Looks fine but didn't have what I needed in it
Handles ISBN barcode but not the 13+5 Bookland ISBN
Makes standard ISBN barcode but does not offer the ISBN13+5 bookland format, nor does it have the ability to insert adhoc appropriately-sized text above or below the barcode
Reply to this review Read reply (1)
"Powerful barcode tool"
Version: Universal Barcode Maker 6.3.5
It is a ease tool for make barcodes, print batch barcode in one paper, generate batch barcode images, recommand
No yet now.
"it go the right way"
Version: Universal Barcode Maker 6.3.5
easy build
minnor tools
simple building but usefull
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text:
|Stick to
|TABS text only
|Difficulty: undetermined
|return to normal For any Bon Jovi fans out there, here is my version of the intro of 'Stick to your guns'. It isn't perfect but it sounds half decent. The song consists of a few bars of an heavy electric chords followed by two rounds of an accoustic intro. (perso.efrei.fr)


text:
The Blog
Former Fla. Republican Hispanic Outreach Director Becomes Democrat
2:14 PM, May 15, 2013 • By DANIEL HALPER
Pablo Pantoja made news this week by publicly leaving the Republican party to become a Democrat. "In a letter released by The Florida Nation on Monday, RNC State Director Of Florida Outreach Pablo Pantoja announced that he is changing his political affiliation to the Democratic Party," the Huffington Post reported.
The weird thing is, Pantoja is said to have been seeking employment by the Republican National Committee only months earlier. And only when those efforts failed did Pantoja apparently decide that the Republican party was too intolerant for him to call himself a member.
Reached by the phone this afternoon, Pantoja confirmed that he did recently seek a job with the Republican National Committee. But, citing complications with his current employer, Pantoja said he was unable to discuss the matter on the record.
He worked for the Republican party in Florida for about 12 weeks, ending employment there almost a year ago, back in July. He is said to have quit when his portfolio wasn't expanded, and tried almost immediately to get his job back. That effort was not successful.
Pantoja is currently employed by the LIBRE Initiative, a group devoted to economic freedom. A spokesman for LIBRE called the matter "personal."
Recent Blog Posts
The Weekly Standard Archives
Browse 20 Years of the Weekly Standard


text:
Restaurants In Chattanooga, TN
Broad Street Grille, The Foundry, Stroud's Sidewalk Cafe, and More!
The Chattanoogan is home to three of the best Chattanooga restaurants. For more information call Broad Street Grille (423) 424-3700, The Foundry (423) 424-3775, or Stroud's sidewalk cafe (423) 424-3770. You may also simply click here to email us.
The Broad Street Grille
Favorite Chattanooga restaurants of locals and visitors, Broad Street Grille serves Regional American Cuisine in a relaxed environment, The Foundry offers a delicious bistro menu, full bar and casual gameroom, and Stroud's, a sidewalk café, serves delicious coffees, hand crafted sandwiches and salads, homemade soup and delicious desserts. At all three restaurants in Chattanooga TN, the food is incredible, the staff warm and inviting, and the atmosphere relaxing. All dishes are prepared in house by The Chattanoogan's professional chefs. Experience it for yourself and reserve today


text:
Welcome ToMAKEUP.COM
August 21, 2013
0 Comment
› Comment
There's perhaps no beauty woe as universal as the "bad hair day." If wrestling with your subpar style all morning has achieved nothing except a good arm workout (silver lining!), read on for some solutions we found on how to get your coiff to cooperate.
You're having a bad hair day. First of all, it's ok. Even celebrities have off days—here's proof. –DailyMakeover
Your lackluster 'do due to lack of time to heat style in the morning? We got you covered--how to air-dry your hair properly. –RealBeauty
So it's your bangs that are driving you nuts. Check out these 6 tips to make that in-between stage less frustrating. –Elle.com
If you have long hair, try this brilliant tied-up look that hides frizz, awkward volume, limp locks and other bad hair day culprits. –xoVain
If your hair just wants to stay in bed today; embrace it, don't fight it! Here's how to make bedhead look chic. –Makeup.com
Just over it? Take a note from Beyonce and chop it all off. –BeautyBloggingJunkie
Tried all those tricks and still having constant bad hair days? It might be a sign it's time to break up with your hairdresser. –BeautyHigh
Photo: Veer
Receive Your Weekly Dose Of Beauty Tricks, Expert Tips & Step-by-Step Tutorials.
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text:
JacketFlap has become the world's largest and most comprehensive resource for information on the children's book industry. Writers, illustrators, librarians, agents, editors, publicists, and publishers visit JacketFlap every day.
This is a networking site for writers, illustrators, librarians, agents and publishers in the childrens book industry. The reason to join is to meet others in the industry, see reviews, get noticed by publishers, ask questions and search the database of over 900,000 childrens books. They also have a blog reader you can use to organize yourself. Over 4000 people LIKE JacketFlap on Facebook.
For authors seeking a publisher, there are over 32,000 publishers listed at JacketFlap. Their submission guidelines are updated often and are easily accessible. The database is searchable, so authors can view only those publishers who are seeking new authors--a huge time saver! Each publisher also lists the types of book they publish and their sales information. After having spent years flipping through writers' market books, a searchable database is an answer to prayer.
Like Goodreads, I was able to syndicate my blog when I created my profile. I also added the ISBN for The Pet Washer and a link to my Pet Washer Series website. I like this because I am creating my own "web" on the Web. I believe that the more cross links I have, the more the search engines will notice me and my book. I am Charlotte, spinning away, hoping someday people gather and say, "That's some pig."
I highly recommend joining this site if you have written a childrens book!
Jennifer Alvarez
Author of The Pet Washer
a novel for girls aged 9-12


text:
physically, i've always had almost perfect health.
physically, i've always had almost perfect health.
I think my liver isn't okay.
Physically I'm pretty okay. Improving. I've changed my diet and taken up yoga. It's pretty fun.
Mentally, a mixed bag. I've been on and off anti-depressants for almost a year and been to counseling a lot. I have my good days and bad days. I'm making changes though. Looking for a better job and I'm hoping to move to a new town in the winter. A lot of negative connotations associated with my current city which I apparently mentally can't shake.
Better than I was, but still not near where I want to be.
i have no thyroid
Physically, I don't get near enough exercise. But other than that and the stuff that may be born from it, I'm alright physically... for now* suspenseful music*
Mentally... I have anxiety issues which leads to bouts of depression sometimes. It doesn't affect me everyday, but when it does... ._.
At some point I need to see the doc and get some meds. Early this year I was on some pills for it, but I dint like the side-effects.
Up until this point, I would have thought a lot of y'all were in perfect health. Apart from being overweight myself (which is no one's fault but my own and I'm working on it) and some minor aches and pains that are job related, I guess I'm alright AFAIK. A lot of stress though but I got ways to handle that.
I like hearing about other people's problems though. Really puts things into perspective about what I don't have to go through or should be doing/appreciating more.
"Rules do not exist to bind you, they exist so you may know your freedoms"http://myanimelist.net/animelist/Kashis, https://www.neonmob.com/@sliphatos
Be careful of what you say, tomorrow or today, for the words you now speak, may become the poison your enemies later seek; truth.
NNID Sliphatos (1762-2677-2366): Smash Bros Wii U/3DS, Fantasy Life, Monster Hunter 4, Splatoon.
My health isent that good even though the doctors says im in good health i dont how. they barely did any tests. I should go back and get check again but i hate doctors so i rarely go to any. health wise from how i feel. chest pains in my lungs and heart. content migraines. back pain lower area probly came from the wreck but who knows. i got a fatty liver. and Irritable bowel syndrome and to throw in more anxiety skitzoeffective disorder paranoia and major depression that leads me to think about offing my self just about ever day. and according to my nurse i am morbidly obese i was 285 and now i think 260 but damn thats not even fat. and stay tired and never fell energy yet i barely can sleep because of the voices in my head and nightmares.
but ya know there is peopele in this world thatssa is probly worsee offf then mee
cant write tto nght took to muhc meds to help s, m e sleeepe
You guys here are some of the most stupid and insulting people out there. I say to you all fuc.k you all. I am really tired of you guys judging me and thinking your above me. Only god can judge me. Later all. Enjoy your onrpg . I come here and be nice to you guys and yet you choose to call me names. Thats fine i dont need you all any more. Bye
I am fat(again) but other than that I am healthy.
I can loose weight fairly fast, It's just hard to stay motivated.
Last time I tried I lost about 30lbs in 2 months. Time before that about 90lbs in 5 months.
Blood pressure varies, quite rapidly. Having an extremely high blood pressure really doesn't mean much unless it is a constant issue. Most blood work doesn't take anywhere near 3 weeks to come back unless it is specialized testing that is done in a central location, I live in quite the remote area and we finish 95% of requested testing in less than 8 hours, for some tests the doctor tells you to come back in a week to review the results for I could finish before you'd leave the building after having your blood taken (if you're relatively normal). Keep in mind some tests are required as soon as physically possible e.g. if someone is bleeding out or having a heart attack, and the longest one that they really need in emergency situations (not including medication monitoring) takes less than an hour.
As for not going to physicians, but believing your health isn't that good... If you're honest about this feeling, go to a doctor. I have very little patience for people who complain about issues and do nothing about it, there are tests, blood or imaging, to really nail down how much your knee hurts and there is medication or physio in order to greatly remedy any long-term pain you've been experiencing, there is no need to suffer pain that can be avoided.
As for a HbA1C for 7.1 (which I assume you mean by Hg), it is high, but it isn't that bad in the overall scheme, definitely work on it though, you don't want to stick around there. It's a 3 month estimate of your glucose control, the higher it is the more damage you'll be doing to yourself [especially your kidneys (What's your Urine microalbumin / creatinine ratio?)].
As for my health, I'm almost the definition normal with the exception of a slightly decreased white blood cell count (which I believe is due to me never being sick) and I'm dodging the genetic bullets (cancer mostly) that's been fired at me from all directions. Also, I'm lazy as hell, so I should work out more, which I won't do.
"Rules do not exist to bind you, they exist so you may know your freedoms"http://myanimelist.net/animelist/Kashis, https://www.neonmob.com/@sliphatos
Be careful of what you say, tomorrow or today, for the words you now speak, may become the poison your enemies later seek; truth.
NNID Sliphatos (1762-2677-2366): Smash Bros Wii U/3DS, Fantasy Life, Monster Hunter 4, Splatoon.


text:
Candlelight Carols
Presented by Trinity Church Boston at Trinity Church Boston
December 14 - December 15, 2013
A beloved Boston tradition since 1909, come celebrate the birth of Christ through carols, anthems, and candlelight offered by the Choirs of Trinity Church. Doors open one hour prior to the service, with prelude music beginning 30 minutes prior.
206 Clarendon Street
Boston, MA 02116
General Day and Time Info:
Accessibility Information: Currently, no accessibility information is available for this event.
Connect with this Organization:
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text:
"We believe that our recommendations will aid HFD in its core mission of saving lives and protecting property."
Scott Lemond is an attorney with the Lemond and Lemond law firm and was one of six lawyers who interviewed 112
firefighters over the past few months. The City of Houston paid for the review in an effort to figure out why HFD
has a reputation for discrimination and harassment. The report contains a number of recommendations, things
like improving the department's training program, recruiting aξmore diverse fire-fighting force and improving leadership from the top down.
"Supervisors must understand that their failure to act upon witnessing an act of harassment or discrimination is just
as bad as engaging in the conduct themselves and that type of putting ones head in the sand attitude is not going to
be allowed at the fire department and will be met with some sort of punishment."ξ
The assessment points out that HFD deals with the same issues that other large organizations do, with 4000
firefighters who live together as a family much of the time. Merri Schneider-Vogel is an attorney with Thompson &
Horton. She says overall, firefighters didn't report widespread discrimination or harassment.
"From talking to the firefighters, we did not see the same type of issues that originally caused us to be engaged. The
types of gender discrimination, race discrimination, incidences that got the attention in the summer, we did not see those incidences pervasive throughout the department as we talked to people."
The assessment also recommends an improved complaint process and a single policy concerning harassment and
discrimination instead of a maze of policies and rules. This is Houston Fire Chief Phil Boriskie.
"I'll tell you at the very beginning, the Houston Fire Department welcomed this study, very honestly. Now that it's over, we find the recommendations very useful. Quite frankly, we embrace them and we look forward to implementation of theseξrecommendations. We believe the Houston Fire Department will be better."ξξ
Boriskie did question why it's taken more than five months for the city's Office of Inspector General to complete the
investigation into the racist and sexist graffiti, saying there was no reason for the probe to last longer than 60 days.ξξ


text:
Photo Transfer Journal Quilt using an image of my niece, adding wings and crystal ball, then using my pansy photo image for the background........all done without the use of photoshop. The images were printed on photo paper, then cut out and taped together, then scanned into the computer. I used commercial photo transfer fabric sheets for the final print. This image of my niece spoke to me the first time I saw it, and I knew someday it would become a quilted textile. This is the third one I created, and is now hanging in her room.
You can see more of my photo transfer work on my blog: http://luannkessi.blogspot.com/
LuAnn in Oregon
© 2015 F+W All rights reserved.Use of this site signifies your agreement to the Terms and Privacy Policy, updated March 2007


text:
Liverpool In August 2008, several Third Street residents appeared before the Liverpool Village Board to complain about skunks inundating the neighborhood.
Mayor Gary White, who was then a trustee, acknowledged the problem. "Typically skunks are nocturnal," White said then, "but now we're seeing them out in bright daylight, which makes me worry about rabies."
As they've done for decades, however, village officials urged the troubled residents to utilize the trapping program administered by the town of Salina. It cost $16 for each resident to have traps set.
In April 2011 in two separate incidents, Liverpool Police officers shot and killed two skunks which had been behaving strangely in village yards in broad daylight. One animal was dispatched behind a house on Oswego Street, while another was killed a few blocks away on Sixth Street.
Now, skunks have infested Second Street.
Second St. infested
"I've lived here 20 years and I've never seen it this bad," resident Jim Spadafore told village trustees at their Aug. 20 meeting. Spadafore lives on Second Street between Iroquois Lane and Council Place.
"It's a really big problem this year," he said. "It's like an explosion all along Second Street."
In an Aug. 17 letter to the mayor, Spadafore said he has spent more than $1,000 on skunk removal over the years. "So I have to ask the question, what are we doing as a community to rid the village of skunks?"
Salina's animal-nuisance wildlife trapper told Spadafore that he is "overwhelmed" by the extent of the skunk problem across the town. As a result, the trapper is unable to prioritize village properties threatened by skunks.
"The quality of life for my family is being compromised," wrote Spadafore, a recently retired local educator. "I think it's time for the village of Liverpool to hire their own trapper before a wild animal with rabies attacks a child or a pet."
(Continued on Next Page)
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text:
Archive for the 'poverty caps' tag
Hemmings Find of the Day – 1968 Oldsmobile 4-4-2
Let the debate begin: Which is cooler on a muscle car, poverty caps on body-colored steel wheels, or the styled mag-type wheels often offered in the day as options? We ask because this 1968 Oldsmobile 4-4-2 for sale on Hemmings.com, while it has the steelies mounted, can come with a set of Rocket styled steel wheels as well. From the seller's description:
400-4 matching numbers, automatic transmission, 342 posi rear, power steering, power brakes, factory air conditioning, no vinyl top option, bucket seats, column shift, after market radio, tach in the clock position, complete cosmetic restoration on a rust free California car, done to a high standard in the original Saffron Yellow, original black interior, red line radials, and small correct Olds poverty caps. Runs and drives strong and tight. I have the build sheet. This is a true Olds 442 done in correct colors.
The trim, moldings, and bright work are excellent. Interior is original to the Olds.
I have a set of 15″ Rocket wheels w/tires if you prefer that option.
Status: No Longer Available
View past picks: Hemmings Find of the Day Archive
See more Oldsmobiles for sale on Hemmings.com.


text: Want to buy first jump/break cue and wanted some sugg. on what to look for and price round 150 or less getting serious about game now. Play with a Players that cost 125 but gonna hold off on new one til mess around with some to get feel for what I like, thats why I want to get j/b cue to be able to prac. all shots. Sugg. app.


text:
Your cart is empty!
Dentists and hygienists recommend:
I have my entire family, children, grandchildren using this product. My great-uncle told me about it. There is a generational factor involved to help all ages to have better dental hygiene. Makes dental cleaning much easier and shorter.
I was very happy with this toothbrush. I will buy this product again.
I have been a hygienist for 44 years and this particular brush is the best toothbrush for preventing gum disease. I give this brush to any patient having trouble with gumline brushing.
product is very nice.
Packers Pine Tar Shampoo For Hair And Scalp - 8 Oz
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Folks please be patient with me here - I have read several books nowand am still exasperated and confused over wind shells vs rain shells.I am wanting to buy the best gear for my needs and something that will lastfor more than a couple of hikes.I would like to use a single article for wind and rain ie; wind/rain pants and wind/rain jacket. (Edit- if this concept is workable, not sure it is).I own (for pants) the O2 "3flow" supposedly waterproof and windproof breathable, and a pair of Marmot Driclime stretch pants.For jackets I have a Marmot Mica(rain) and MH Ghost Whisperer hooded wind shell.None of those items are particularly durable although I am happy with the weights.I have been looking at reviews of the Arcteryx Alpha FL, SL, and Beta AR (maybe too heavy)outerwear and those look tempting (and yes pricey).My goal is to find something light and durable that I can carry always, excluding desert hikes which are not in my future as I know it.My hiking aside from areas of Florida will most likely be in the North Cascades and I want to be ready for any weather. I would also like to hike the JMT someday soon.Seeing as how I will miss this years Cascades season I will have time to carefully choose gear, unlike the last time I strolled into the Seattle REI not knowing what I wanted, and left with all the wrong stuff. My budget is around 3-400 for a jacket and 2-300 for the pants, but I could go higher if the logic is there.So the question are 1) if you wanted the best gear to cover wind and rain, light and durable, what would you buy ?2) If you think it is wrong to try to deal with wind and rain with a single article of outerwear, please explain, and tell me what you would do instead.Although I was born and raised in Wash State, most of my adult life has been spent in the South Pacific, and all of my hiking has been heavy jungle bushwacking, so I need to reacquaint myself with the alpine thing. Guidance is appreciated.Thanks
Edited by Diablo-V on 09/02/2013 03:26:37 MDT.
Waterproof breathable clothing is neither. Eventually it leaks and you will get soaked from sweat. Wind and rain gear should be be separate items, forget the multi-use mantra here. For more of my thoughts The Seaarch for the Holy Grail
Agree with Nick. Separate wind and waterproof clothing nirvana search.
REI Sahara shirts and pantsKimtah eVent rain suit (not UL)Merrill Moab Ventilator shoesMuch lighter and reasonable durablity is lost.
"Waterproof breathable clothing is neither. Eventually it leaks and you will get soaked from sweat. "I find this statement an exaggeration. Ves eventually every rain jacket will leak. But that doesn't tell you anything about the durability which can very considerably. Is the cause of the leak is caused by heavy use with caused tears or holes? Or is it because the membrane has aged and pealed or turned brittle? From my experience polyurethane coated fabrics all tend to get age related failures which includes membrane pealing, flaking off within about 5 years. Sometimes you will get one that will last longer but eventually the polyurethane will fail, even if the packet sits in the closet most of the time. So a Event or Gortex jacket will typically only fail when you wear through the fabric or tear or puncture the fabric. Getting wet from sweat is not a durability issue. If you get wet from sweat it simply means you chose a material that cannot keep up with your sweat output. Unfortunately manufacturers frequently don't tell you when the breathability spec is and if they do they use a test method that will show the best possible number. In my opinion Event is the most breathable. As to DWR it is not and essential feature of the fabric. The DWR does not make the fabric waterproof, the membrane does. The DWR is only there to help maintain breathability. If the fabric gets wet breathability drops. However once the rain stops the jacket starts to dry out the breathability will return to normal. If the DWR fails you can reapply it using a wash in or spray on product. Fabrics with PTFE membranes (Gortex, Event) in my experience doesn't suffer age related failures. If the membrane does fail it is often due to a defect and in many cases will be replaced under warranty.When I was growing up in the PNW I saw a lot of bad weather. My first rain gear was a poncho which didn't work well in wind blowing rain. Later i got a rain jacket and rain pants (none breathable polyurethane fabric) which kept me dry in rain although sometimes you would have to take shelter to allow any sweat to evaporate. later I moved to california and got a gortex jacket. It breathed better then my old rain jacket (which delaminated while I was going to collage in arizona). Bit in the worst conditions sweat was still an issue with Gortex. Now I have a Event jacket (with no pit zips or vents) which is noticeably more breathable than Gortex. While I can work hard enough to get some sweat accumulation inside the jacket, I cannot maintain that pace for very long. When I slow down to a sustainable pace I can feel the sweat slowly evaporate. My older Gortex jacket is still waterproof but now the DWR needs to be reapplied regularly and by todays standards is very heavy.Note wind shirts are not waterproof and will not keep you dray and safe in long rain storm. I consider windshirts and optional item since all rain jackets will block the wind even though they don't breath as well as a windshirt.
Edited by Surf on 09/01/2013 13:01:16 MDT.
I have an Arcterryx Squamish windshirt. I've used an Event rain jacket. The rain jacket is only preferable when it rains or it's pretty cold and windy. The only nirvana to gain by not bringing a windshirt, is in a spreadsheet calculation. This has been discussed multiple times. I think the consensus is pretty clear. Sorry for being so direct ;-)
The op is going to be hiking in the PNW. He wants one piece to handle all conditions. No way a windshirt will cut it as a do-all piece in the pnw. Having grown up hiking and doing trail work in the pnw, I'd suggest full on 3 ply event. As for "all wp pieces will eventually wet out", do you mean over the life span of the piece or 'after 8 hours of heavy rain'? Look, shoes will eventually wear out; it doesn't follow that everyone should go barefoot. And so on. A wind shirt will "eventually" wet out too--in about four minutes of pnw rain. Three ply event will keep you dry much, much longer than that. My Rab Demand did not wet out over 10 hours of heavy rain and sleet earlier this season. I didn't even have condensation problems. I would have gone hypothermic in a windshirt.
Just to be clear. I'm not advocating to only bring a windshirt. That's been discussed multiple times too. Bring a windshirt and a waterproof jacket. End of discussion. ;-)
oops, sorry Peter if I sounded like you meant something else...my bad.
"This has been discussed multiple times. I think the consensus is pretty clear."I agreediscussed multiple timesconsensus is that some people like windshirts, some don't, depends on conditions,...for me, wind shirt is redundant, no need for it, rains too much in PNW so I need better rain jacket. For any conditions, I can either wear just base layer shirt or add WPB jacket.
remember that if its REALLY windy enough for you to use a windshirt ... youre already getting quite a lot of cooling even with a rain jacket ... you can simply use the zip to vary the amount of "cooling" in good windnor are all windshirts very "breathable" ... some dont breath well at all IMOwindshirts are optional, no one is going to die without oneas to WPB being "waterproof" after the DWR has totally worn off ... i suspect not for 2.5 layers ... look at what happened to the great skurka's UL WPB golite jacket during his great alaskan trek;)
Edited by bearbreeder on 09/01/2013 14:14:12 MDT.
I'd agree with jerry that in the PNW its worth having a nice 3 layer wp/b like event or neoshell. I've worn my rab demand in all day rain, up over passes etc. & stayed dry. I will add that renewing the dwr is crucial to tje functioning of these shells. I'd get a demand or a westcomb shift (very high quality jacket) regardless. Test it out as a windshirt, & if you're not happy, add a nice breathable windshirt. Either way, when it rains hard, you'll be happy to have the quality rain shell. There's something to be said for the simplicity of just having one shell even though I'd agree that the functionality of a windshirt is nice for long days above treeline, or early starts.
Jeffrey, no worries at all :-)
I agree, that on some trips you can foresee, that a waterproof shell is all you need, but I read the post as he wants to have something that covers a broad spectrum of weather. Hence a windshirt is needed. And a good one of course that's nice to wear when it's hot.
Rab Boreas for a windshirt - not quite as effective as a full-on windshirt but effective enough and much more breathable. A favorite piece for cool/cold weather trekking.Rab Demand smock or Westcomb Focus LT hoody - great rain jackets, IMO. I own both, and always have difficulty in choosing one or the other when I go out. For the PNW I'd probably opt for the Rab Demand.
I have been reading the replies with gusto and appreciate the help.I have an engineering mind and the problem with that is we get obsessed with theory.All of the theory and calculations cannot stand up to your own field experience,thus this post ....Nick Gatel - That was a very informative read, my mind is open to using a poncho but I'm still soaking this up .....no pun.To many others - I got a bargain on the MH ghost whisperer hooded wind shirt, and it's like 2 ounces, so it will not be too terrible to have on hand for the extra weight.I will look at better ones too, so keep the brand/model suggestions coming.As I understand so far, I would NEVER be using it at the same time as rain wear. Correct me here if needed. Wind shirt for warmth in dry, cold, windy conditions.The arcteryx gear I referenced is Goretex active and goretex pro, depending on the model chosen. huge weight differences. Good reviews but I am skeptical of how thorough those reviews are.To clarify my OP - I am not hell bent on one piece of gear, it was a philosophical goal and not necessarily well informed. That's why I made the post, needing input.I will look at the RAB gear as I recall reading about it in Townsend's book also.Keep it coming please.
Hi Daniel, if the windshirt is breathable and comfortable enough against bare skin, you can easily wear it as a middle layer under a waterproof shell.
Quote: " if the windshirt is breathable and comfortable enough against bare skin, you can easily wear it as a middle layer under a waterproof shell"OK I'm a noob but wouldn't that make it a NTS layer instead of a middle layer ?I have not tried out the Ghost Whisperer yet - it is being shipped to me now.I am unsure of its breathability at this point.You are the first to suggest this (wind shell under rain shell). One thing I've heard is the Whisperer is delicate , so protecting it from pack straps by hiding it under a rain shell would be Ok.But there I go with theory again, haven't seen seen the wind shirt yet ....So, I gather thus far that I should invest in a better rain shell than the MICA (09 or 10 model) and get a membrane style, lots of good recommendations for E-Vent so far ... I checked out RAB and it looks like they have not only discontinued the models that have been suggested, but that they no longer offer E-Vent at all. Correct me if I'm wrong.Unrelated but I'm wondering if GORE forces clothing makers to exclude competing membranes if they are using goretex. The reason I ask is that as I recall everything offered by Arcteryx was some form of goretex.My clothing plan so far:Base: merino top and bottoms, lightweight, on hand.Walking pants: Railriders adventure pants, regular, not the extreme version, on hand.Walking shorts: Nylon light surf trunks.Walking shirt: ExOfficio nylon long sleeve.Warm synthetic insulation jacket - I have a MH pullover half zip, model unknown but looks too light, will be looking for something else. Maybe fleece instead.Walking hat: Tilley airflo, on hand.Warm hat: Integral Designs PrimalidSocks: Smartwool Med cushion Hiker or light Hiker, season depending.On handGloves and rain gloves - undecided.Shoes : undecided, perhaps Merril Moab ventilators.
Edited by Diablo-V on 09/02/2013 04:09:45 MDT.
"Getting wet from sweat is not a durability issue. If you get wet from sweat it simply means you chose a material that cannot keep up with your sweat output."In my experience the list of garments that can't keep up with my sweat output would include all garments listed as waterproof whether they are supposed to be breathable or not.
Well for what it's worth I am planning on "downgrading" to a Patagonia M10 for my shell (lightest non-cuben 3-layer shell I believe) and a Houdini for a wind shell. Total weight for both is something stupid like 350g. I've heard great things about both so that's my next gear experiment.
Daniel, you're ½ right... as i'm always wearing a merino t-shirt as my first layer, it will never touch my torso, but maximally just the most of my arms.
if yr wearing a windshirt UNDER your rain jacket ... you just sacrificed a good part of any "breathability" of your rain jacketin high output activities youll sweat out the windshirt at that point ... if yr going to wear something under your rain jacket for something more serious than walking around .... wear something thats highly breathable and wicking ... like a light fleece ... or just a base layerthe trick with not "sweating" out your rain jacket is to wear as little as possible under it when moving ... and use the zippers to regulate the temperatureremember that the MORE you wear under your rain jacket, the hotter youll be, which is why youll sweat ... and the more items that will get soaked in sweat, the more that needs to be dried out, and the more chilled youll get afterwards when you stopthe next time there a cold ~ 40F rain for hours, go out for a strenerous walk for hours around the city park with your packweight ... and youll find this out every quickly ... no cheating by stopping at the sbucks ;)remember if yr sweating out everything in cooler temps ... unless yr a marathon runner, it means yr doing something wrong !!!
Eric, i promise you, it will not be more cool to wear a light fleece instead of my Arcterryx squamish under a shell...
I've never said that it's good to always wear a windshirt under a shell. My step down in garments used under a shell when on a trip, would just be my merino t-shirt.
Eric, i promise you, it will not be more cool to wear a light fleece instead of my Arcterryx squamish under a shell...it will more BREATHABLE to wear something like a light base layer or a light R1 vest, which are infinately more breathable than ANY windshirt ... i "promise" you thatits useless to go worry about the "brethability" of a rain jacket when yr adding on a windshirt underneath ... if you want to be "cool" dont wear anything under yr rain jacket other than very thin long sleeve base layerim not saying all these fancy fabric dont make a bit of difference ... but at the end its the SKILLs that matter;)
Edited by bearbreeder on 09/02/2013 08:24:12 MDT.
You might like these The best clothing combinations for backpacking or hiking Breathability: an explanation of its importance, mechanisms, and limitations A New Paradigm for Understanding Garment Warmth Ultralight Backpackin' Tips: Clothing
Eric, who cares about breathability if your garment isolates and makes you hot? ;-)Haha, but a fleece vest is cooler than a long sleeved fleece, so you're on your way now... ;-)Btw, have you tried the squamish material? It's one of the more breathable windshirt materials out there.In the end, one clothing system that works for one person on a backpacking trip doesn't necessarily work for another person :-)No worries in disagreeing, other than it makes Daniel more confused...Sorry Daniel!
Hey, don't go pulling the skill card in an edit Eric... that's low ;-) haha
But why add a thin base layer to your pack weight if you don't need it? I'll either wear just my t-shirt underneath my shell or the next step up will be my Squamish that i'm already carrying - multipurpose.If we were talking short day trips, and not extended hikes, well, then picking and choosing from a never ending gear closet would be another deal ;-).
Eric, who cares about breathability if your garment isolates and makes you hot? ;-)Haha, but a fleece vest is cooler than a long sleeved fleece, so you're on your way now... ;-)Btw, have you tried the squamish material? It's one of the more breathable windshirt materials out there.i own and use a dead bird celeris windshit vest ... which is quite "breathable" as far as windshirts gobreathability DOES matter to a certain degree ... otherwise we would simply use silnylon rain jackets all the timeeach time you add ANY layer the breathability gets reduced ... some like base layers and light fleeces are HIGHLY breathable so theres less impact ... others like softshells and windshirts are LESS so, and theres much more impactusing a windshirt under a rain jacket poses the following problems- the windshirt is one of your LEAST breathable active clothing items, only the rain jacket is worse ... so you are layering your 2 least breathable clothing items to walk in the rain where theres high outside humidity - by the time you decide to put on the rain jacket over your windhirt (i mean NO ONE here puts it on at the first few drops of rain really, they all brag about how their windshirt are water resistant) ... youll will have a significant amount of moisture already in the windshell ... that has to go SOMEWHERE ... and with the reduced breathability of your 2 least breathable layers, guess where its staying- straight WET nylon is "clingy" ... throw your winsdshirt in the washer,dont dry it, put it straight on under your rainjacket and youll see what that means ... it sticks when wet, and the moisture doesnt wick very well when its under a layer ... because of its "fuzziness" fleece wicks moisture away from the skin pretty well ... which is why you can take a soaked fleece, wring it out and put it on right next to the skin, even under a rain jacketnow there ARE people who DO put on their rainjackets over their softshell/windshirts, but these are usually climbers or other such in the winter ... usually in activities where taking on/off multiple layers is more risky at belays than simply putting on another layer.... and even then in high output activities, they often take off the layers they dont need ... to sweat in winter is to die ... but most people here dont need to worry about it for what they doat the end of the day its pretty useless to complain about breathability if you are layering you 2 LEAST breathable layers together when activeSKILLS trumps fancy fabric anyday;)
Edited by bearbreeder on 09/02/2013 08:55:01 MDT.
But why add a thin base layer to your pack weight if you don't need it? I'll either wear just my t-shirt underneath my shell or the next step up will be my Squamish that i'm already carrying - multipurpose.If we were talking short day trips, and not extended hikes, well, then picking and choosing from a never ending gear closet would be another deal ;-).you ALREADY HAVE a thin base layerin fact in WET conditions you should have 2 ...1 for use during the day, 1 for sleeping in ... unless you like bringing moisture in you nice down sleeping bag;)
I guess our climate we hike in and our minds differs - no worries Eric.
I think so far from the knowledge presented here, for the climates I mentioned, it would be a good idea to have both rain shell and separate windshell. I *think* I read somewhere of the windshell being used as a makeshift vapor barrier by someone after a rain shell DWR failure in extreme cold, in an emergency situation, but not sure.A suggestion for a durable rain shell and pants would be appreciated with lightness being my preference over price. See my previous post - the suggestions for the RAB products didn't pan out since those mentioned are all discontinued. So we are looking for a breathable rain jacket that wont fail me in the freezing rain on the west side of the cascades, and that should last through a long AT or equivalent hike, and that should not tear wide open at the mere sight of a blackberry bush.I saw this:ZPacks™ Waterproof Breathable Cuben Fiber-eVent Rain Jacketbut it looks like a garbage sack with arms, designed for the tin man from OZ. If it's the best thing going however, I will gladly cast all fashion sense aside and get one.If my Marmot Dri-clime stretch pants are acceptable as wind pants, then I can save buying something else.If a cuben fiber poncho/tarp is light enough to replace the tyvek ground sheet for my Skyscape-X, then I might be able to use it primarily for that, and secondarily as a backup in case of a rain shell failure.This query has opened some healthy discussion on clothing philosophy so I hope it will continue. Remember to tell us what your price-is-no-object dream system consists of.I will check out the links posted above from the person named .. er ... Link.
"you ALREADY HAVE a thin base layerin fact in WET conditions you should have 2 ...1 for use during the day, 1 for sleeping in ... unless you like bringing moisture in you nice down sleeping bag;)"Nope, because i don't need a thin base layer during the day, i can take that weight and add it to my thicker sleeping baselayer, and thus, i'll be able to sleep comfortable at a lower temperature than you, for the same weight... ;-)
daniel ...if you want "durable" get something thats 3 layer ...but more importantly get something with a no questions, bring back for any reason WARRANTYthis and other board is littered with posts about rain jacket failures, principally from delamination even the fanciest brand names have had their "bomber" jackets delaminate if your look for the threads hereand UL rain jackets are especially at risk of failure with their thinner fabrics, and 2.5 layer;)I *think* I read somewhere of the windshell being used as a makeshift vapor barrier by someone after a rain shell DWR failure in extreme cold, in an emergency situation, but not sure.if a windshirt is used as a VBL ... its useless as a "breathable" windshirt =P
Edited by bearbreeder on 09/02/2013 09:11:01 MDT.
... and fer cryn out loud would you guys stop arguing long enough to tell me what a Squamish is ? Then keep arguing after that.
Nope, because i don't need a thin base layer during the day, i can take that weight and add it to my thicker sleeping baselayer, and thus, i'll be able to sleep comfortable at a lower temperature than you, for the same weight... ;-)of come on are you wearing NOTHING during the day at all?yr wearing some kind of base layer ... whether a t-shirt, button up shirt, cap1, merino, etc ...are ya going off about weight "bragging' over a shirt you bring anyways;)
hehe :-)....it's just a windshell from Arc'teryx... nothing worth arguing over...haha :-)What is more important is that you buy that Zpacks Event Cuben Fiber jacket, and make a great review about it after your trip!Okay, got to run guys...take care :-)
and fer cryn out loud would you guys stop arguing long enough to tell me what a Squamish is ? the squamish is one of the most expensive windshirts you can buy ..some people claim is highly breathable, there is some dispute however on the numbers if you read certain threads ...some good climbers use and swear by it ... even more use some other brand and do just as crazy things in the worst conditionsyou decide if the fancy gear is worth the $$$$ ;)http://www.arcteryx.com/Product.aspx?language=EN&gender=mens&category=Jackets&model=Squamish-Hoody
Daniel,Sounds like a wonderful multi-use item. Past experience has taught me that heavy use as a groundsheet will leave a poncho full of holes. I used my zPacks Cuben poncho/groundsheet as a groundsheet a few times when new, just to test it. On most trips I use a polycro ground sheet or a waterproof sleeping pad. Long term use of a poncho as a groundsheet is not a good idea, IMO.
"of come on are you wearing NOTHING during the day at all?yr wearing some kind of base layer ... whether a t-shirt, button up shirt, cap1, merino, etc .."Nope, nothing...besides the chest hair i've grown being badass...Se ya! ;-)
" if you want "durable" get something thats 3 layer ..."Oh NO ! Not the tin man jacket I hope ! That's 3 layer it says ....OK, statistically (somewhat) more reliable fabrics with "fewer" failures ?Goretex Pro ? E-Vent ? Brands /models ? What would you buy right now from the 2013 / 14 clothing line if you intended to make your outer shell an expensive and hopefully long term investment.As a hiker this is where I want to throw the most money. I see the North Cascades in my future because that's where I'm from and that's where I want to hike, but the gear should hopefully work in other situations (within reason).It is frustrating reading about ten year old fabric technologies in the various hiking books which were last updated in 2003.....EDIT : thanks for the link to the Squamish, looks very good and perhaps tougher that the Ghost Whisperer. And it's named after a Washington State tribe too ...
Edited by Diablo-V on 09/02/2013 09:35:35 MDT.
What would you buy right now from the 2013 / 14 clothing line if you intended to make your outer shell an expensive and hopefully long term investment.anything made by Outdoor Research ... not because i believe they are any more "reliable" ... but because they have one of the BEST warranties in the business ... a dog can eat your jacket and theyll take care of youthere are 3 types of "reliable/durable"1. it has the features you want that prevent "failure" due to condtions ... ie the hood is shaped well so it doesnt "leak", the zippers are really waterproof or have storm flaps .... this depends on what you will do ... for example many UL rain jackets skimp on these features, but thats OK for their intended conditions ... you arent going to be in the middle of a storm on K2 with one of those2. the fabric doesnt fail in the field ... either through abrasion or DWR failure ... generally 3 layer are more durable in that regard, and the importance of skills in that you reapply your DWR regularly ... also have a backup plan IF your jacket does fail in the field3. long term durability ... delamination ... its that simple this is the killer of every jacket out there ... it happened to every brand no matter how cheap or expensive ... what matters at this point is the WARRANTYrain jackets IMO are things you go through, eventually if you wear them enough, especially around town all the time in the PNW in the rain ... theres a good chance theyll fail eventually ...personally i wouldnt call any a long term "investment" if you use it often enough ... except for OR or other brands with a no questions asked warranty where theyll just send u a new one every time;)
The technology (Gore-Tex) has been around for almost 40 years. If you are hiking all day in cold rain (e.g., under 40F) you are going to end up being cold and wet. The interior gets soaked from sweat, then water starts coming in from the outside. eVent is more breatable than Gore-Tex. Most eVent jackets do not have zip pits, but I noticed the new REI jacket does, it is not a light jacket though. My zPacks poncho vents, thus breathes, better than any rain jacket I have ever worn. It is smaller than the typical poncho, so it is not problematic as the typical poncho in wind and cross country work. It is not perfect. There is no perfect rain gear, as I have been dealing with this delimma for nearly 50 years.
" because they have one of the BEST warranties in the business "won't do me any good if I'm in a sleet storm and hypothermic, as at that time i would be thinking of what blunt object to use on the store salesman who hyped up the warranty and got me to buy the jacket ... but seriously, Craftsman power tools - best warranty - but you WILL end up using the warranty because they are junk. Good points you bring up -if being that all other qualities equal, the warranty wins - THAT I can understand.My uses: I won't use for daily wear - I live in the lightning capitol of the world here in Central FL and if I'm getting heavy rain that means I'm running as fast as i can to get away from a possible lightning strike. I have a Columbia rain jacket for that, no good for the hills. So my hiking shell is for that only - hiking/camping.I won't be wearing a rock helmet or climbing harness, snow shoes, or skis. Just a ULA Catalyst pack and maybe a camera chest pack. I hope this clarifies a little better.
Nick I have not altogether decided against a cuben fiber poncho yet.But coming down the trail you must sound like a bunch of chipmunks fighting over a giant bag of Cheetos huh ?I like the idea of sweat and breathability being a non-issue with ponchos.I can see where the wind shirt would complement it in the cold.
make sure it FITS thenOR helium if it does .. unless yr bushwhacking or climbing ... itll be fine for the rain most people here deal with, and it weights 6 ozif yr going to hike in all day rain then id get something with 3 layer goretex pro with full length rain zips ...or event ... again from OR or some other manufacturer with a great, unlimited, no questions asked warranty ...OR is not "junk" its used and tested by many alpinist around the world and they are a major brand namethe problem is that unlike some companies like dead bird (whose "lifetime" warranty on harnesses is only for 200 days) or TNF with their marketing budgets ... they dont spend as much time self promoting themselves or sponsoring the "coolest" athleteswhat many people dont realize is that the "brand name" is irrelevant in quality outdoor gear except for the WARRANTY ...all these jackets have been in the gnarliest places, all of them have been used by "top" athletes, all of them have products for gnarly/UL/whatever conditions, all of em have their screaming rabid fanbois in the intrawebsthe only real difference is in the fit of the particular product, the price they charge, and the WARRANTYif youre spending $$$$$ ... that company should take care of you ... not argue about whether its covered or having to wait weeks for example you can read about it here ...http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=73770&startat=22if you are every unhappy with an OR product for ANY reason at all after ANY length of time ... theyll simply exchange or refund you the purchase;)
Edited by bearbreeder on 09/02/2013 10:23:18 MDT.
Rain gear: GoLite poncho or if want a jacket, walk into Outdoor Research and buy one of the jackets with the Torsoflo side zippers. There are several models to suit your weight and budget needs. I went with the older Panorama model made with Pertex (the current model is OR's Ventia fabric). I'm of a mind to concentrate on ventilation features with whatever light 2.5 layer fabric du jour. As others said, DWR mainenance is key, with careful laundering, re-treatment and ultimately, a lifetime warranty. IMHO, there's no free lunch on rain gear. Light stuff is either weak on breathability and venting options and/or durability. You can get more functional jackets, but it's no effort to have the weight double or even triple. I have conceded to heavier jackets for my PNW all day drizzle conditions: SUL options just don't cut it. I think a poncho makes a great summer CYA rain gear choice and you get emergency shelter and oack cover in the bargain with a 7oz load and $60 outlay. I'm a big fan of wind shirts and have the previous Houdini model. I don't know what to suggest with Patagonia's recent fabric change on the Houdini. Montane is my first thought, and size up one size. I use wicking polyester base layers. Patagonia is easy, and I've used REI, TNF, GoLite, Nike and others. I like the meshy-ier weaves vs the smoother silkier ones. I crank it up to cap2/3 to suit the season. I have an REI light Power Dry top that is great for cool weather base layer with a rain or wind shell. News to me, Power Dry comes in several weights. Botton down shirts don't work for me when hiking hard. Great for travel, but just soggy when I'm going uphill. I verified this yesterday on a day hike with a 2000' gain in 2 miles and low 80's. I wished for a wicking shirt soon enough. Wind shirts will fill that gap well. R1 (Power Dry) or Power Stretch for mid layers. Use vests for warmer weather CYA layering to save weight and bulk. Pants: REI Sahara zip offs, and to my surprise, Columbia Silver Ridge zip offs and shorts. The Silver Ridge fabric is comfortable and dries fast. Ex Officio Nio Amphi shorts are good too.For cool damp weather, light soft shell pants are great. For all day rain, silk weight polyester long johns with 2.5 layer rain pants. I see rain pants as pretty much sacrificial garments as they tend to get trashed more than tops. Marmot Precip or the equivalent will keep you dry enough and balance weigh/cost/durability.Shoes du jour are Patagonia Drifter AC. They have stiff rock resistant soles with great traction, good padding, and they breathe. Best for low volume feet I think. For puffy insulation, I like 90/100g jackets like the Patagonia Micro Puff or First Ascent Igniter for colder westher. I do carry a Revelcloud vest for my summer day hiking CYA layer, but I prefer a Patagonia R1 with a windshirt vs a thin puffy like a Nanopuff or Thermawrap. That combo leaves all kinds of variations for those 45-50f days with sporadic rain and little sun.
OR really walks the talk on their warranty. I sent something in for replacement recently and it was quick and hassle-free.
The poncho groundsheet thing has never made sense to me. I'd love to have a SUL Cuben poncho, but I would never throw it down in the rocks and mud and sleep on it. Ponchos can be great rain gear. They need to be properly cut to cover your pack and a simple waist belt of light cord with a toggle will tame the loose ends. They look bad, but if you can get overcthe fashion issues, they make a lot of sense for UL use: you get well ventilated rain gear with coverage to the knees, a pack cover that keeps the whole pack dry, and excellent emergency shelter as well.
I looked at the OR helium, rave reviews on the site I visited, not expensive either.Synthetics are out of the question for me as far as NTS wicking layers.I'm a merino kind of guy, that much I know.The only reason I like the Exofficio shirt is because its light, breathes, sun and bug proof, and has pockets ... OK that was six reasons ... but light merino long sleeve would be my next choice. Merino just wont hold up to pack straps etc very well.Keep it coming .. thanks.
I would like to hear first hand feedback on the Helium. What I get fron OR's description is that it is not waterproof enough for all day drizzle and better for summer/occasional rain--- a slightly more waterproof windshirt?
Hi Dale,I have the original Helium but only used it light showers and it was fine, I don't think its breathable enough to be used in lieu of a windhshirt though.
That too was my impression from the specs-- not a windshirt and a short duration rain jacket. It sounds okay for the Sierra or the like, but not for 3-season use in the Cascades and Olympics.
ive used the original in all day PNW drizzle fine ... as you know there no way yr going to keep totally dry regardless if yr active for hours in such conditions ... now if yr going out for days on end in non-stop heavy rain ... nothing short of a full ledged rain jacket will be sufficient IMO ... and youll stll get damp regardlesswhich is what gets me ... when people talk about "waterproofness" and "breathability" they are really talking about occasional storms, thundershowers, climbing ice where theres some drip, shorter duration trips ...anyone who has been out in non-stop PNW rain where there no letup for days, the trails are total bogs, theres no dry wood in sight, there no sun at all, humidity is near 100% forever ... knows that there is NO such think as "keeping dry" or "breathable" ... once the DWR gets so saturated, it aint breathing, period ... once you become a steaming pile inside yr overwhelmed rain jacket due to dampness, it doesnt matterat that point you just want to keep WARM ... and get things less damp, ie quick "drying";)
After looking at the weights on the Cuben poncho, I would just but the GoLite if not using it as a ground sheet (which I wouldn't). The MLD version is listed at 4.6oz and $165. The GoLite is 7oz and $60. The zpack double groundsheet model is 6.1 oz and $170.
Its definitely only a summer piece for me and normally only bring it on overnights if the forecast is good, if out for more than 1 night or if rain is the forecast I will pack an event jacket (weighs about 3oz more)
I just picked one up for $80 for trailrunning/fastpacking but have yet to use it.Given the majority of the rest of the contenders in this weight range are twice the price, I'm satisfied. For the High Sierra and 4 season Southern California trail running, it seems like it will fit the bill fine. It's only a few ounces heavier than my Houdini, which wets out incredibly quickly in rain or rubbing wet vegetation.If I were expecting days and days of rain, I'd carry my heavier GTX shell instead.As to breathability while running, it's not a concern to me. Nothing stays dry inside while running or working hard. And as Eric said, maintaining warmth is the primary concern._______________________http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/ul_wpb_jackets_sotmr_part2#.UiTihBZBSu4"Aside from the excellent face fabric and poor hood design, the rest of the Heliums are as identical as they are unremarkable. This last is a good thing. The waterproof front zip functioned well, and the single front pocket, elastic cuffs, and drawcord waist do their job quietly and well. The fit is good, trim but not too trim, with room for a light puffy coat and plenty of sleeve length for active pursuits. Even with a sub-par hood, the Heliums are an excellent value. With a better hood, they'd be at the top of the PU heap.Overall: Solid, bargain rain coats characterized by excellent face fabrics and mediocre hood designs."___________________________Good enough for me.
Re; "Botton down shirts don't work for me when hiking hard. Great for travel, but just soggy when I'm going uphill." Have you tried unbuttoning all the buttons on a full-button shirt, then opening both sides all the way out?
So the question are 1) if you wanted the best gear to cover wind and rain, light and durable, what would you buy ?I don't think there is one perfect piece of rain gear. Durability, waterproofness and breathability are often at odds within a particular jacket. In other words, I don't think you will find any garment that scores a five star rating in all three categories, regardless of price or weight (which are another two important categories).You might consider buying a variety of gear and matching your trip to your gear. The Northwest climate is rather dry in the summer. There are rainshadows. We get stretches of good, dry (and predictably dry) weather in the summer. In the other seasons, we get really long stretches of bad weather. The weather to the east tends to be drier, but gets more thunder and lightning. In other words, you will probably bring different gear on a three day trip to the Teanaway in August versus a week long trip to Olympic Coast in November. Likewise, I would bring a different jacket if I was hiking on the PCT versus a bushwhacking extravaganza. As far as particular gear is concerned, I would read the "State of the Market Reports" on Rain gear. Here is a link to the State of the Market Reports: http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/xdpy/sf/Gear/State%20of%20the%20Market%20Reports/index.html(just search for "rain").2) If you think it is wrong to try to deal with wind and rain with a single article of outerwear, please explain, and tell me what you would do instead.A windshirt is redundant. The only reason people bring them is because they tend to more breathable than a rain jacket. This means that they provide for a far more comfortable range of conditions for which a puffy jacket is too much, and a T-Shirt is too little. Whether you want to bring a wind shirt depends a lot on how much discomfort you are willing to endure. You need to provide for the extremes; you need to be prepared for heavy wind and rain. But dealing with the in between weather is not essential.Fleece breathes really well but is heavy for its weight. When day hiking, I bring fleece on every trip, every condition, rain, wind, sleet or snow. For backpacking, I count every ounce and bring a synthetic puffy. It won't perform as well as fleece if it if is under a rain jacket while under heavy exertion. However, when I've encountered those situations, it has only been for relatively brief periods (a few hours, not all day). In other words, I've never had to travel miles and miles in a hurry while under relentless rain (I've hunkered down or the rain stopped). In that situation, a poncho would be better than a rain jacket. As it is, it performs just fine under those conditions. The jacket loses some warmth, but not as much as down does. I think a synthetic puffy is a great compromise between fleece and down. Of course, if the treated down works well, then it could replace the synthetic puffy.
If you are looking for a 3-layer eVent jacket, the 12 oz Rab Momentum is pretty nice. I bought one last year on clearance and haven't yet worn it hiking but I'd take it to North Cascades or a PNW sustained-rainy trip. It's not made anymore, but campsaver has some for $195 on clearance although you can't be choosy on color (only one medium).http://www.campsaver.com/momentum-jacket-men-sEdit: definitely too much jacket for Florida, but there's good advice here about needed multiple upper body shells to handle the range of conditions you're looking for. I do carry a windshell AND rainshell in the PNW, mostly because I think it's a great 5 oz layering piece.
Edited by saparisor on 09/02/2013 18:36:12 MDT.
Thanks for the info so far. I should say that yes I will be planning any hikes based on weather.No, this jacket (or jackets) are not for Florida weather - I think my MICA has me covered there. I am thinking the poncho would be better on a long AT hike, and the Cascades would be better with a jacket. So the next question is - Goretex Pro or E-vent.I will read the state of market link, and I appreciate the time everyone has spent on this dilemma. Hopefully this will be helpful to others who read it as well.I do understand the "no free lunch" concept very well coming from aviation. This is why I posted the thread in the first place - because I an skeptical of the wondrous claims in sales literature for these jackets. I want confidence in my gear.I am resolved to carry a 2 or 3 ounce wind shell, done deal, that question is answered although I do want to see suggestions on good brands. As mentioned I got a deal on a Pat Ghost Whisperer hooded, but there may be better options for the weight.This brings the issue down to which (rain shell )membrane technology has a good track record. I'm not looking for perfect, just reasonable expectation of reliable.Thanks.
"2. the fabric doesnt fail in the field ... either through abrasion or DWR failure ... generally 3 layer are more durable in that regard, and the importance of skills in that you reapply your DWR regularly ... also have a backup plan IF your jacket does fail in the field"DWR failure is not a big deal. If the DWR failed your jacket is still waterproof. The jacket will however loose some or most of its breathability. To help prevent condensation open any vent, slow down to minimize heat, or setup camp early so that the condensation can dry off. Once the rain stops and the jacket starts to dry breathability will be restored to it original level. If you have a puncture or rip in the fabric use plastic tape to plug the leak. then when your hike is over get it fixed or replace it. Note that no polyurethane WPB fabric currently sold breaths as well as event despite all the claims to the contrary (or at least I have not found one that lists the cup upright test and list a number as high as Event).3. long term durability ... delamination ... its that simple this is the killer of every jacket out there ... it happened to every brand no matter how cheap or expensive ... what matters at this point is the WARRANTYDelamination is mostly a issue for WPB fabrics that use polyurethane membranes (typically clear). Polyurethane is sensitive to moisture in the environment. Over time it can get sticky, start to disintegrate or completely peel off. Besides after extensive reviews of the specifications and test methods listed for fabrics, I have not yet found one that breaths as well as well as Event. So for me Polyurethane WPB arn't worth it. they will eventually fial and it doesn't breath well enough.Gortex, Event, and other generic WPB fabrics use a PTFE (teflon) membrane. PTFE is typically white. Unlike Polyurethane which is applied to the fabric as a liquid and then allowed to dry, PTFE is attached to the fabric using a separate glue. For Gortex or Event delamination is very rare and is typically covered by the manufactures warranty. Gortex had delamination issues when it was first released in 1970;s and Event also apparently had similar problems right after is was released. Both treated it as a warranty issue and I have not seen any recent reports of Gortex or Event delamination. If your worried about delimination get a jacket with a 3 layer fabric. The 3rd layer will preevent you from tearring or puncturing the PTFE when you put it on. I have not read of any 2.5 layer Gortex or Event fabric delaminating. Before you hike check the jacket for delamination. Delamination is typically not a sudden event. It typically starts in one area and speads slowly. Delamination is mainly an issue if you don't check for it before you start hiking and then in a sever rain storm find out the jacket is no longer waterproof due to delamination.PS: I Spent half my life in the PNW and I am well aware how bad the weather can get. In my experience with a poncho, it is not adequate in PNW weather. I have never hiked in Tropical conditions. The breathability of a poncho may be better in warm high humidity conditions.I recently upgraded from my old REI Gortex jacket to a Westcomb Specter LT 3 layer Event jacket.
Edited by Surf on 09/03/2013 00:50:54 MDT.
considering the demand is discontinued, I'd take a look at the westcomb shift, of if you're not in a rush, wait till spring when arc teryx comes out with their new goretex pro Alpha FL jacket --http://www.thegearcaster.com/the_gearcaster/2013/07/arcteryx-fast-and-light-climbing.htmlIts seriously worth ordering the shift from somewhere with free shipping just to try it on and check out the quality. If you're making your decision based on durability/weight/quality and breathability, than the shift strikes the right balance. Mind you, I don't have long term experience with the shift, but its pretty obvious that its a tougher and more breathable jacket than other stuff in its weight class. I would bet that the new arc will be even tougher with the new pro shell, but maybe a little less breathable.
DWR failure is not a big deal. If the DWR failed your jacket is still waterproof. The jacket will however loose some or most of its breathability. To help prevent condensation open any vent, slow down to minimize heat, or setup camp early so that the condensation can dry off. Once the rain stops and the jacket starts to dry breathability will be restored to it original level. skurka's DWR on his 2.5 layer shell failed ,,, and he got soaked from the outside ... on BOTH of his rain jackets ...DWR failure is a serious issue if you cant renew it ... ie a hot dryerThe two other jackets were production models, and I didn't treat those -- I used them as rain gear. If I could have re-treated the jacket during the trip, I wouldn't have needed two since there was nothing structurally wrong with the jacket -- it was just that that the DWR coating had worn off and there was no hydrostatic head, so I got soaked whenever it rained. "Mom, send my other blue rain jacket."In general I've never been impressed with rain gear, especially on a long trip. It fails, period. The Pertex fabric is no different, except its heavy face fabric tends to absorb a lot of moisture -- I think its weight skyrocketed to about double when it got wet, and then it got mildewy because it never had the opportunity to dry in some of the most prolonged wet storms.http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=38291also read ... http://andrewskurka.com/2012/breathability-its-importance-mechanisms-and-limitations/Both treated it as a warranty issue and I have not seen any recent reports of Gortex or Event delamination. If your worried about delimination get a jacket with a 3 layer fabric. The 3rd layer will preevent you from tearring or puncturing the PTFE when you put it on. I have not read of any 2.5 layer Gortex or Event fabric delaminating. http://tramplite.com/2012/11/montane-spectr-vent-smock-failure.htmlhttp://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php/239147-goretex-delamination-questionhttp://www.clubtread.com/sforum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=37976http://www.outdoorsmagic.com/forum/gear/delaminating-paclites/30098.htmlhttp://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=73770&startat=22http://www.outdoorsmagic.com/forum/gear/me-changabang---delamination-issues/48732.htmlhttp://bushwalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=11231but the best of all is from our very own BPL SOTM rain jacket test ...Most disturbing of all, the Spektr failed utterly in the waterproofness department, and after a modest amount of use. I noticed some significant fabric fuzzing after my testing, but thought little of it when I sent it to Alaska for BPL writer, champion wilderness racer, and notorious gear killer Luc Mehl to use. He took it on a travese of the Aniakchak crater out near the Aleutians and got "pretty much soaked" by rain leaking in under the pack straps. I was shocked to hear this, as the test jacket had, by that point, fewer than 20 days in the field. I had even cleaned the jacket before sending it north to ensure the DWR was in good shape. The only conclusion I can draw is that fabric abrasion caused laminate failure, and that Montane has some work to do on the durability of this particular form of eVent.http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/ul_wpb_jackets_sotmr_part2.htmlyou get the point ... i can of course find many many many more "examples" ...;)
Edited by bearbreeder on 09/03/2013 01:27:22 MDT.
I just want to correct Serge first of all, in my earlier post, towards the beginning I said " I have been looking at reviews of the Arcteryx Alpha FL" among other jackets, and that was on the top of my list, but it is NOT, I repeat, NOT Goretex Pro. It is another called Goretex Active. Unless ARC has decided to redesign the jacket for next year, and I doubt that would happen without giving it a different name, it will be using the same membrane. The Alpha FL is available right now, and Amazon has my size. I suspect you were thinking of the ARC BETA series, which are Goretex Pro, heavier, and much costlier.I haven't seen a bad review of the ARC Alpha FL yet so it's on the list of finalists.Regarding the OR Helium 2- its virtue so far is its light weight but it is Pertex shell, not eVent, and is less breathable that either eVent or G-Pro. OR literature suggests that it is for limited use "for flash storms" and not for anything but emergency use.One thing is certain, most users liked it, but most users were not thru hikers either.I haven't found any eVent jackets yet, still looking at the Rab Momentum, one left, in a weird color in my size, and that's on the possible list as well. Looks like I have a lot of reading to do with all the links posted. Much appreciated.
Hey Daniel, check that link I posted: "The updated Alpha FL Jacket is made completely from the new breathable yet durable three layer Gore-Tex Pro material. The 310g jacket features a trim fit in a hip length cut, with no extra bulk to weigh you down or get in the way. I don't know enough about new goretex pro material, but from my understanding its suppose to be about as breathable as goretex active, but more durable.
The gearcaster link does indeed say the alpha FL will use the goretex but nowhere else has that info so I suspected an error. If it will be Goretex Pro in 2014 you can forget about the ultralight part ... we will see.The Alpha FL is on my short list.Another one as you suggested, the $400 Westcomb Shift. Only bummer is no pit zips, but so far great reviews.I have the Shift in my wish list at REII might get the Super Mica or Helium 2 for Florida hikes later.Still trying to find warranty info on the Shift.And I don't yet know anything about the polartec neoshell used in the shift.There was one other jacket with Goretex pro in the shoulders and Paclite everywhere else, looking for the link again - it looked interesting.
Edited by rmjapan on 06/19/2015 15:34:26 MDT.
The dual fabric jacket I was trying to remember is:Arc'teryx Alpha SL Hybrid Jacket$350, 13 oz and has pit zips, good reviews so far.I will check out the Axiom, thanks.
This thread got me to study up on rain and wind gear. Boy, did I find some treasures here on BPL.Before deciding on a jacket you might want to read this article:High Exertion Moisture Accumulation in Rain and Wind Shellshttp://backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/00030.htmlThe Science of Breathability and Its Impact on Raingear Selection and Usehttp://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/00037.htmlIn summary they conclude that ventilation is a lot more important than breathability to keep you from getting wet from the inside out. So, check out those vents.
"In summary they conclude that ventilation is a lot more important than breathability to keep you from getting wet from the inside out. So, check out those vents."Some of us figured that out decades ago. Although not always ideal, it is why I use a poncho. Afternoon thunder showers are one thing, day after day rain is another. At the end of the day there is no perfect solution. So instead of worrying about it and constantly searching for the perfect rain gear I just plod along with what works for me and spend the time saved not looking for the perfect gear on more important endeavors.
how about some of those new clothes the Emperor wears?
I'm not furry enough and I got no fat under my skin.When I scuba I sink with no weights without a wetsuit.I have to admit I get cold easily when not moving.I spent most of my life in the south pacific although I was born in Washington.I am acclimatized for the tropics. I go to Washington about once per two years and I always get sinus shock from the drier air. So I'm really trying to be thorough now in selecting my clothing system for a week in the Cascades.I don't want to overpack and I don't want to be cold either ......As the philosophy goes - I want to be prepared for the worst possible weather.The short list is narrowing down to about 5 possibles, which is a good thing.Arc Alpha SL, Rab Momentum, Westcomb Shift LT Hoody, and a couple of others.
I added the Montbell Storm Cruiser to the short list.$260, 12 oz, Goretex Pro with pit zips.I will hold off on pulling the trigger right away since I will not be in theCascades this season, and maybe some new stuff will show up or other stuff might go on clearance.So I spent this weeks allowance on a Caldera Cone Tri-Ti with all the bells and whistles and a MLD 850 ML pot for it.I got my MH Ghost Whisperer wind shell in the mail and eegads it looks delicate.I guess we can't expect too much from 2 ounces ....
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WILLIS CREEK (Brown County). Willis Creek rises in south central Brown County (at 31°41' N, 99°03' W) and runs eight miles, through Brownwood, to its mouth on Pecan Bayou, four miles east of Brownwood (at 31°42' N, 98°56' W). The area is flat with local shallow depressions and is surfaced by clay and sandy loam that support water-tolerant hardwoods, conifers, and grasses.
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Comment Re:US immigration in a nutshell (Score 1) 284
I agree
These are competent professionals, who have nice families and mouths to feed. It's a crime that they are treated like this. This type of arrangement was supposed to be abolished long ago. But here it is again in the 21st century.
I say get rid of these rules and allow free market to determine who gets paid what and all are allowed to work where they are wanted most. If workers come to this country and they are not up to the level of others, they will be paid less or lose their jobs anyway, but it'll be free market reasons... not rules giving power over them to keep them in low wages to get their green card.
I don't know if anyone has mentioned this


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June 2, 2011
• Capital One Academic All-District Teams
MADISON, Wis. -- After enjoying a breakout season on the track, University of Wisconsin sophomore Elliot Krause has been honored for his work in the classroom, as well.Krause, the Big Ten Conference's seasonal leader in the 10,000 meters, was named to the Capital One Academic All-District 5 first team on Thursday. The all-district team, selected by a vote of the membership of the College Sports Information Directors of America (CoSIDA), honors student-athletes who show proficiency both in athletics and academics.A mathematics major, Krause will earn his second Academic All-Big Ten honor in track this spring to go along with his pair of Academic All-Big Ten nods in cross country. He also was named All-Academic by the U.S. Track & Field and Cross Country Coaches Association last year and meets the group's requirements for a repeat honor this season.Krause is now eligible to be selected to the prestigious Capital One Academic All-America team, which is selected from the pool of all-district selections across CoSIDA's eight districts. To be eligible for all-district consideration, athletes must have reached sophomore status at an institution and carry a cumulative grade-point average of 3.30 or higher.A career-best time of 28:43.34 at the Mt. SAC Relays in April put Krause atop the Big Ten standings in the 10,000 meters. He went on to finish fourth in the event at the Big Ten outdoor championships and also placed 14th at the NCAA West Preliminary Round last week.
Krause is a native of Appleton, Wis.
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