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In a highly unusual decision that the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) says "ignores 65 years of precedent," a federal judge has held that the memories of SEC attorneys and information from their interview notes are discoverable. The SEC lawyers appear to have interviewed three key witnesses during the investigation without taking their sworn testimony, thereby avoiding the creation of a verbatim transcript. In a February 4, 2013 Order, Magistrate Judge Nathanael Cousins of the Northern District of California rejected the SEC's argument that its attorneys' memories and notes about these interviews were protected by the work product doctrine and ordered full responses to interrogatories regarding the interviews.
At the heart of this case, SEC v. Christopher Sells, is the allegation that the Defendants, former executives of Hansen Medical, Inc., violated the federal securities laws by participating in a fraudulent scheme to boost the company's sales of a surgical device. When making the allegations against one of the Defendants, Timothy Murawski, in the SEC's October 2011 complaint, the regulator relied on the statements of three immunized witnesses who were interviewed by SEC attorneys in 2010. These interviews were not recorded by a stenographer. Murawski submitted interrogatories to the SEC that asked the regulator to disclose the dates of these interviews and the information the witnesses provided. Murawski argued that this information was necessary to his case and could not be obtained by other means, even though he had chosen not to depose any of these witnesses. The SEC argued that the information in notes taken by its attorneys during these interviews was not discoverable under the work product doctrine. The court disagreed and ordered the SEC to "disclose the dates of its communications with the witnesses and to describe the information provided by the witnesses, including information provided during three specific meetings in 2010."
The court and the parties largely focused on the U.S. Supreme Court's 1947 decision in Hickman v. Taylor. The SEC argued that "Hickman held that an interrogatory seeking a description of the substance of a witness statement obtained in anticipation of litigation calls for work product—even if the attorney learned facts about relevant events during the interviews . . .." The SEC asserted that the Supreme Court had found that pre-filing interviews of this nature are the "most protected form of attorney work product" because they "reflect an attorney's mental impressions and opinions." On the other hand, Murawski claimed that the information he sought constituted facts not protected by the work product doctrine, an argument the SEC said "ignores 65 years of precedent." The court rejected the SEC's arguments and echoed the language from Hickman that "[w]here relevant and non-privileged facts remain hidden in an attorney's files and where production of those facts is essential to the preparation of one's case, discovery may properly be had." This case was distinguishable from Hickman, in the court's opinion, because there the responding party had provided interrogatory responses that included relevant information from witness interviews. The court also noted that the party seeking discovery in Hickman "had not demonstrated the necessity of the production, or the hardship or injustice caused by a denial of the discovery." In Sells, the court held that the production of the requested information was justified because Murawski had demonstrated that the "information sought by the interrogatories is unavailable by other means and is substantially necessary to his case." It was irrelevant to the court that Murawski could depose these witnesses because that would still not make their 2010 statements about what they had claimed at that time available to him.
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Chip's MLB Vegas Hotline Winner (Giants/Dodgers)
Chip's MLB Vegas Hotline Winner (Giants/Dodgers)
San Francisco vs. LA Dodgers, 04/03/2013 22:10 EDT, Score: 5 - 3
Money Line: -122 LA Dodgers
Sportsbook: Pinnacle
Result: Loss
San Francisco at L.A. Dodgers 10:10 ET
Dodgers – over Giants- The Giants will send former Cy Young Award winner Tim Lincecum (2012: 10-15, 5.18 ERA) against the Dodgers a team he has dominated in the past with a career 2.81 ERA. The problem here is the Lincecum who finished 1012 strong just has not been the same in two seasons. And struggled during the spring throwing to a 10.57 ERA. Los Angeles will counter with Josh Beckett (7-14, 4.65) who is also looking to have a bounce-back season as has had his problems in the spring as well posting a 7.79 ERA. Still,the home club has the more powerful line-up. Take the DODGERS!
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Right: Mia and Joe from Cat's Gymnasium in Boulder, who did not want their last names used, demonstrate the shoulder-to-shoulder pose during the Hanuman Festival on June 18.
Jason and Chelsey Magness had only been married five days before they decided to stick together — literally — for 24 hours.
The newlyweds attended the Hanuman Festival, a four-day, community-oriented yoga and music festival in Boulder, where they took the vow to be in constant physical contact with each other for 24 hours.
"Originally it was supposed to be 24 hours," Jason Magness says. "And then at the end of it we kind of just spontaneously tried to make it all the way home since we hadn't been home since we married."
By the time the couple had left the festival and successfully convinced airport security to allow them to maintain contact on their way back to their home in Bend, Ore., they had maintained contact for a total of 54 hours. They were practicing love conservation, and they believed they could symbolize their emotional connection by maintaining a physical one.
"The [airport] supervisor got it," Magness says. "She met her husband and married him three days later in Vegas, so she was a very big proponent of love conservation. She basically found a loophole for us and there was no specification on the age of the child, so she let me carry Chelsey through security."
The two took part in the challenge through the Global Glue Project, an organization working to promote healthy, life-long marriages by showing communities the value of great love stories. The Global Glue Project was among the many vendors at the Hanuman Festival.
Jason and Chelsey Magness are both teachers of acroyoga, a hybrid of acrobatics and yoga, and the two were in good company at the festival. Scattered around the lawns of Boulder High School were pairs lifting each other on their shoulders and backs in fluid motions.
The festival, having just wrapped up its inaugural year, centered around bringing participants to not only take classes, but to spark their enthusiasm to make a change for the better in the lives of those around them, festival founder Valerie D'Ambrosio says.
"The way I teach yoga is that we have to love ourselves," she says. "It's about understanding the self, and once you do, then you can go out there and really make your mark in the world and take your gift and make change."
The festival was full of various kinds of yoga practitioners and the classes offered a wide selection to students with options such as meditation, vinyasa flow, arm balances and inversions, and chakra flows.
D'Ambrosio says when coordinating with teachers for the event, offering such a variety was her goal.
"We were looking for all styles of asana," she says. "[The teachers] were all super enthusiastic."
Teachers from across the U.S. participated in the event, included Simon Park, Darren Main and Tiffany Cruikshank. Also teaching at the festival was Seane Corn, a founder of Off the Mat Into the World (OTM), an organization that partnered with D'Ambrosio to put on the event.
The organization focuses on igniting grassroots social change through yoga. Corn says she chose to partner with the Hanuman Festival because of the festival's drive to encourage yoga practitioners to become inspired to make positive changes in their communities.
"It was a natural partnership," Corn says. "We want to work with like-minded people and Valerie is as much committed to service and activism with Hanuman, and we wanted to support that."
The environment of encouraging individuals to make an impact on a larger scale attracted hundreds to the festival, some from different parts of the country.
Desiree Ouellette, a native of Washington state who was in town with her husband for the festival, says she came to the festival looking for a shot of inspiration.
"I'm always searching for inspiration," Ouellette says. "I love the spiritual aspect of the classes here because it takes my mind off myself and focuses it toward helping others."
Despite having dreams to see the Hanuman Festival begin take hold in other cities across the U.S., D'Ambrosio says the festival will continue to be held in Boulder in the future.
"I've never put on a festival before and even though there were hiccups and fires we had to put out, I do have a dream to have it expand into big cities," she says. "But we will definitely continue to have it in Boulder."
For more information on the Hanuman Festival, visit http://hanumanfestival.com/home.
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In New Hampshire's State Parks and Forests you can encounter both on-road and off-road riding opportunities. We have provided the following information to help you understand some of the safety concerns regarding your sport. Please be courteous to other trail users - it goes a long way toward insuring that everyone has a good time out on the trail!
Helmets prevent BRAIN injuries!
This law is for kids riding bicycles on public ways.
Helmets protect ALL heads. ANYONE riding a bike, skateboard, scooter or
skates anywhere should wear a helmet.
Safety questions? Call NH SAFE KIDS at 1-877-783-0432.
Brain Injury issues? Call the NH Brain Injury Association at 225-8400.
For additional information check out the N.H. Department of Transportation's online (pdf) Road Warrior Brochure.


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Kai Otton wins the 2013 Rip Curl Pro Penich
Reef is thrilled to congratulate head-to-toe ambassador, Kai Otton, on his maiden ASP World Tour win, a result that came from a combination of backhand and forehand surfing with some impeccable tube riding.
On Thursday, Otton bested ASP Rookie of the year, Nat Young of California to win the Moche Rip Curl Pro At Supertubes in Peniche, Portugal.
Otton was hot right out of the gate, beating young sensation Gabriel Medina to go directly to the third round where he stepped past fellow Australian, Bede Durbidge. The gutsy goofyfoot had his work cut out for him after losing in round four, but came up with a convincing win over John John Florence in a beachbreak barrel showdown.
On the final day of competition, Otton surfed a crucial quarterfinal heat with Mick Fanning, who was looking to clinch the 2013 ASP World Title in Portugal. But Otton forced the title race to be decided in Hawaii this December with Fanning and Kelly Slater gunning for it. Capitalizing on his momentum, Otton then downed defending ASP World Champ, Joel Parkinson in the semifinal. This set up the final battle with rising star, Young in tough conditions, but Otton fought through, clinching his personal best result, winning the final 12.23-11.03.
"I just can't even comprehend it," said a thrilled Otton, "I just really want to dedicate it to my Granddad. He passed away the year I qualified and he never saw me get on tour. So, this is for you mate."
images below care of Rip Curl - HERE


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I want a boob lift badly. H says they are perfect. I call bullshit
Pain, my ww had her's done and it was incredible. She was originally an A cup since she only weighed like 100 lbs but after our son was born they sagged and her hips widened and she was bottom wide with nothing on top. She went C's which looked great but after the loss of a child went into a depression gained about 70 lbs and stretched them out badly. The second job was DD witha full lift and now at 46 she has the boobs of an 18 year old, never having to even wear a bra. She loves them. Of course, I blame them for our problems as she went nuts after getting them and let everything go to her head and .........
[This message edited by 99lawdog99 at 12:24 PM, June 25th (Wednesday)]
And don't worry, hopeless. I'm all about sex in the past tense right now too. But between abstinence and fucking a guy who is double dipping his wang around town on the sly, I'll take being a born-again virgin, thank you very much..
I guess were men of mystery after all. Personally though I always thought we (men) were pretty transparent..
Although all this is fun I think that topics like this are subject to generalization.. So let the questions continue but remember that as far as YOUR guy is concerned YMMV.
As far as attractiveness goes. gray/white hair. boobs. etc. I have always been drawn to women who seem to be comfortable in her own skin. Not in a over confident and in your face sort of way. But in a *this is who I am* way. So if a woman dresses differently than the fashion. Or looks like she dresses for comfort rather than wear stupid shoes and a too short dress. Then Im interested.
Im also attracted to women who seem to have a sense of self respect. Mostly if she seems fit. meaning that she respects herself enough to take care of her self. Not OVER fit or overblown in any direction. But is fit and comfortable with herself.
Im also attracted to the quirky ones. Rather than a woman that could have come off a assembly line. I like a woman who looks interesting. Someone that looks like they would be interesting to talk to.
As to SAHMs having affairs. That bothers me allot. I was working my ass off during WWs LTA. She was working but barely putting in 8 hour days. While I was doing 12+ hours every day. I sacrificed allot for our financial security. And (I know I will get knocked around for this) I think that the $$ I earned during her LTA should not have to get divided with her getting +50% of should I eventually D her.
As to sex positions and eye contact. Ive always been the more adventurous one in the sack. WW likes missionary. period. Once in a great while we will do something different. But thats rare. Ive always wanted more variety but have had to give that up over the years. Somehow considering that I think its odd that SHE had the LTA.
Eye contact? During sex I am totally consumed by the act with her. For me eye contact is unnecessary because I am totally immersed in her. She is the totality of what I am thinking and doing. There really is nothing else going on in my mind. Eye contact can actually be distracting for me.
I never think of another woman or have any wishes about having sex with someone else during sex.
I mentioned earlier that my desire is for sex to be completely physically and emotionally intimate. Unfortunately I am M to a woman for whom emotional intimacy is impossible. So when not having sex with WW I sometimes wish I could have that level of intimacy with another woman.
Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man.
Friedrich Nietzsche
When we have sex from behind are you secretly pretending or wishing that we were someone else???
No. Never. But in a way it's not my W either. It's very impersonal. Not to be crass, but from that angle, you could be (almost) anyone. But that position isn't about you. It's about me. Don't get me wrong, FWW says she loves it. But I'm doing what feels good to me.
I think I asked a really dumb, insensitive question considering what forum I'm on.
Always consider your audience.
I had a stray at home wife (is that Trademarked Tred?). She worked outside of the home a few hours a week. Just enough to meet her cooworker OM.
But your question was not dumb. In fact if you rephase it such as: After your SAHM WW cheated did you feel resentful of her SAHM status?
The answer to that is hell yes. Now she works full time. Something about "idle hands" and "devil's workshop".
[This message edited by MindMonkey at 12:56 PM, June 25th (Wednesday)]
menage-yeah, I gotta admit once upon a time(20+yrs ago), it was a fantasy-fWW was living with a nice looking but crazy blonde gal
boobs-yeah they were perfect before, and perfect now, boobs are always good--- big small medium, it's something we don't have ya know
no i don't think about other women when we doggy
Like Mr. Monkey, I wasn't too worried who was back there, I was just happy it felt good.
After your SAHM WW cheated did you feel resentful of her SAHM status?
I'm pissed I TOLD him I wanted to be a SAHM, and I never got to, and he never took the opportunity to more than double his money at work until after we split. Now he's making all this money for the OW, and I fucking sacrificed for my family. And he squandered MY TIME and MY CHILDREN'S TIME on some cheap slut single mom. And he left his WIFE, forcing her to now be a single mom! Grrrrr. FTG.
But thanks guys for restoring my faith that they are real menz in this world. I knew I got a defective version.
Must say, I'm pretty fucking resentful too.
Eye contact? During sex I am totally consumed by the act with her. For me eye contact is unnecessary because I am totally immersed in her. She is the totality of what I am thinking and doing. There really is nothing else going on in my mind. Eye contact can actually be distracting for me.
It doesn't have to be eye contact. He could have at least looked at me...some part of me. I don't know. I guess it really doesn't matter anymore.
Are there any men out there who have a SAHM wife who DON'T resent her for staying at home?
Do you think silver-gray hair on a woman is unattractive?
What is the male obsession with guns about?
Is it true that menz priorities are 1. Money 2. Women 3. Anything else he chooses ?
During sex when the woman is on top do men turn their heads and look away because they are "concentrating?"
During sex when the woman is on top do men turn their heads and look away because they are "concentrating?"
Ive heard of men that 'look away to concentrate' on lasting longer...could that be his reason?
Yeah, the old "think about Baseball" ploy. Nothing is more embarrassing than finishing way too soon.
What most makes you feel respected?
Every now and then i would just like an honest opinion of how i am doing as a mate. This is important because too often are guys told "That's just what a man does". It kind of forces you into a strereotype. A few kind words of acknowledge meant would be more than a little nice. I would not object to some meaningful hugs as well.
Anything else?
(Trying to decipher those weird faces my ex used to make, lol. He didn't really think about ugly naked people, did he?)
ETA: I hate how I have to talk about sex in the past tense now. How long does it take to be a born again virgin?
I think consensus on the bus thread has been seven years for re-virginization, although the Urban Dictionary says something about 3.5 years. Either way, it's a long LONG time.
I really hate that I know so much about this topic. *sigh*
This is it. The darkest day. The blackest hour. Chin up, shoulders back. Let's see what we're made of, you and I.
- The Doctor
Other than affairs/infidelity: What makes you feel disrespected by your woman?
I call this the out of sight syndrome. It goes along with the other question posted here. In most cases it involves not being able to see how things work as long as they work for you. Things like rent/mortgage/ medical/Taxes and the last peice of pie. FWW lost employment for 2.5 years once. I backed her as any decent husband should but any frorm of money that came to hjer went for her expenses instead of the homestead. It would have been decent to at least offer to adjust the houselhold income so i didn't have to juggle so much to keep up appearances. Before our marriage isigned her into my insurance as a domestic partner. Accordingly the difference was added onto my salary as income. That resulted in a bit of a tax problem later on. She was irate over it saying i messed things up in my taxes that would affect our bottom line.
I paid of the lien that was only there so she could have medical coverage but she didn't see it that way. She saw it as something stupid i had done.
(Trying to decipher those weird faces my ex used to make, lol. He didn't really think about ugly naked people, did he?)
Reminds me of a comedian saying that his wife was complaining about him yelling *slide! slide!* during sex.
I think we (men) all have different strategies when it comes to how to avoid finishing early. *baseball* (a game I dislike and just dont get) is just a metaphor for whatever that personal strategy is.
Are you asking what that strategy is? because Im pretty sure it will be different for everyone.
What do I think when I see hoo-haa?
Aging bodies?
Fist fights without grudges?
What is one thing a partner can do to completely turn a man on?
Why would a man not want to have intercourse with his partner but possibly do "everything" else?
The feel of post-pregnancy hoo-haa?
Head over heals in love?
Silver-gray hair on a woman?
What most makes you feel respected?
The best thing about hitting rock bottom is that everything after that looks fucking fabulous!
So uh, yeah, I don't have any baseball tips, and I'd be curious to hear some strategy.
I could play along and be the coach and blow a whistle and tell him to hold up on second for a few more minutes.
During sex when the woman is on top do men turn their heads and look away because they are "concentrating?"
I've heard of men that 'look away to concentrate' on lasting longer...could that be his reason?
I've heard of men that 'look away to concentrate' on lasting longer...could that be his reason?
This could be. I do remember a few times (pre-cheating) where we would be in a different position (from behind or doggy, whatever you want to call it) where his "stamina" was very short lived.
I guess this brings me to another question. I'm sorry if this has been asked and I missed it. Do different positions feel different? Is there a certain position that is more "mind-blowing" and another is "meh...?"
I guess this brings me to another question. I'm sorry if this has been asked and I missed it. Do different positions feel different? Is there a certain position that is more "mind-blowing" and another is "meh...?"
They do feel different. Every one I've tried has felt pretty damn good. There were a few times when she was on top and got a little rough when it hurt me, though.
I've thought that MMF could be more fun
I find this surprising. Most men I've talked to would never do MMF. They were willing to consider MFM though.


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St. Louis Children's Hospital #6 in the Nation
June 11, 2013 6:17 PM
CBS St. Louis (con't)
Affordable Care Act Updates: CBSStL.com/ACA
Health News & Information: CBSStL.com/Health
ST. LOUIS, Mo. (KMOX) — U.S. News and World Report it out with its annual listing of best Children's Hospitals.
St. Louis Children's Hospital makes the honor roll again this year, coming in at number six in the nation. It ranked in the top ten in four specialties, including neurosurgery and neonatology.
SSM Cardinal Glennon Children's Medical Center earned also earned high rankings for its neonatology program, and for is pediatric heart program.
Shriners Hospitals for Children here was cited for its work with orthopedics.


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Bright Grey has launched a new simplified product aimed at consumers who choose to buy insurance without seeking professional advice first.
The new product called Lifestyle Protection is only available through the internet intermediary site, theidol.com.
The product is a low cost proposition with fewer additional features that offers the option of Life Cover and Life or Critical Illness Cover, but retains Bright Grey's signature speed of service and efficient online acceptance, allowing cases to be accepted online without further medical evidence.
Lifestyle Protection offers:
- Two covers - Life Cover and Life or Critical Illness Cover
- 23 illnesses covered - all ABI Critical Illness Statement of Best Practice
- Maximum sum assured £500,000
Roger at Bright Grey says, " We need to recognise that a certain segment of the population are using the internet to buy protection without professional advice. This group chooses the internet-only approach to buy and would not look to buy in any other way. Until now there hasn't been a product that offers Life or Critical Illness Cover specifically tailored to this group of people, where they can complete the whole process online. The price and the fact that it is a simple product is an important combination for online consumers and one that will encourage more people to buy insurance."


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Home → Sports→ Michigan
College football previews: 10-9
Blade sports writers take a look at UT, BGSU, OSU, and UM's upcoming matches.
Blade sports writers take a look at UT, BGSU, OSU, and UM's upcoming matches.
10 hours ago
Headlines10 hours ago
- Ex-UM player facing 3 felonies
- Ex-UM player charged with felonies
- Fitzgerald, Wildcats winning with emphasis on front line
- Defense gets top billing
- Showdown of top Big Ten defenses Saturday
- Wolverines win with defense
- Michigan's ground game starts slow as Smith sits
- Michigan dumps Maryland 28-0
- De'Veon Smith will not play for Michigan today
- Wolverines put on high alert against Maryland return game
Search: Go →
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Dave HackenbergPirates show fallacy of wild card
All divisions are not created equal.
Matt MarkeyFall colors popping up
Hocking Hills region is something to behold.
Dave HackenbergPizza parties pile up for UT's line
Toledo quarterback Phillip Ely has yet to be sacked.


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We don't spend much time focusing on the fathers of "Teen Mom" and "Teen Mom 2," but they have personal struggles all their own, and that's what prompted Kailyn's ex-boyfriend, Jo, to seek an outlet. His life changed drastically after his son Isaac was born, and as we saw in some episodes, Jo turned to music as a form of self-expression. Rapping under the name N.I.C.K. b, which stands for Nerd In A Cool Kid's Body, the young dad recently talked with us about his revealing rap song, "Life of a Teen Father."
When did you start rapping?
It's been about five years now. It's something that's been around me my whole life. It's an escape.
What is the core message of "Life of a Teen Father"?
Basically it's my story of the struggles I went through, from the life-altering decisions I had to make, to my family falling apart. I believe all teen dads go through the same thoughts and have to make the same decisions I talked about in the first verse. Some choose themselves, some are less selfish, some are in between. But it goes to show that the struggle is there for us dads, too. I think I spoke my side perfectly.
Has Kailyn heard "Life of a Teen Father"?
Yeah, she heard it, though I'm not sure what she thinks of it. She seemed kind of in shock, especially since I dropped it without warning in the car one day and she slowly realized what it was. She was a bit emotional.
+ Check out Jo's music video for "Life Of A Teen Father" and be sure to let us know what you think of it.
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Quality, made Andy's Tee Shirts the company that it is today. Application of the design to garments is the responsibility of our Award-Winning production department, utilizing state-of-the-art printing presses. Our goal is to provide the highest quality products to our customers.
Andy's Tee Shirts offers Award-Winning custom embroidery service. With our advanced equipment, we're able to embroider a wide variety of garment styles and fabrics. With our skilled operators' attention to detail and quick turnaround, you are sure to satisfied with the results.
Andy's Tee Shirts maintains an exclusive inventory of licensed, preprinted shirts. All designs are printed on quality, heavy weight, pre shrunk, 100% cotton tee shirts. Every shirt is poly bagged with size, part numbers and bar codes.


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Pope Celebrates Solemnity Of All Saints At The Cemetery Of Verano
Pope Francis celebrates solemnity of all Saints at the Monumental... News PhotoCelebration,Horizontal,Human Interest,Italy,Pope,Pope Francis,Religion,Rome - Italy,Saint - Religion,Serious,SpiritualityPhotographer Franco OrigliaCollection: Getty Images News 2013 Franco OrigliaROME, ITALY - NOVEMBER 01: Pope Francis celebrates solemnity of all Saints at the Monumental Cemetery of Verano on November 1, 2013 in Rome, Italy. The pontiff celebrated Mass on Friday marking the solemnity of All Saints and afterwards prayed for the migrants who died in the desert or drowned at sea. The Mass was celebrated at the entrance of Rome's Verano cemetery and took place exactly 20 years after the last papal visit there. (Photo by Franco Origlia/Getty Images)


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As a dietary supplement, take 1 tablet, twice daily between meals.
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Friday, June 6, 2008
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SaturdayThe High Museum of Art will open the following three exhibits Saturday: "Road to Freedom: Photographs of the Civil Rights Movement, 1956-1968," which will be open through Oct. 5, "After 1968: Contemporary Artists and the Civil Rights Legacy," which will be open through Oct. 5 and "Louvre Atlanta: Houdon at the Louvre: Masterworks of the Enlightenment," which will be open through Sept. 7. For hours and prices, visit www.high.org. The 2nd annnual June Jam event will be held at 6 p.m. Saturday at the Brenau University Amphitheater, 500 Washington St. in Gainseville. Gates open at 5 p.m. Tickets are $30 in advance or $35 at the gate. Monday The Golden Dragon Acrobats will perform at 8 p.m. Monday in the Pearce Auditorium located at 1 Centennial Circle in Gainesville. Call 770-534-2787 to purchase tickets. June 14 The City of Stone Mountain and Main Street Stone Mountain will hold its 36th annual Arts and Crafts Festival from 9 a.m. to 8 p.m. June 14 and from 10 a.m. to 5 p.m. June 15 on Main Street in downtown Stone Mountain. Admission is free. For more information on Main Street Stone Mountain, call 770-498-7334 or visit www.StoneMountainVillage.com. The Atlanta Botanical Garden will open its Millennium Gate, giving visitors to Piedmont Park the opportunity to experience the Gardens from 6 to 8 a.m June 14. The event, called Sunrise in the Garden, will be free to the public. June 15 Celebrate Father's Day at the Atlanta Botanical Garden with a frog-themed Father's Day Festival from 1 to 5 p.m. June 15. Admission for dads is half-price all day. Visit www.atlantabotanicalgarden.org for additional information. The High Museum will host "Fabulous Fathers - Celebrating Everyday Dads and History's Heroes" free of charge from noon to 5 p.m. June 15. Call 404-733-4437. June 18 AthFest 2008 will be held in downtown Athens from June 18 to 22 featuring more than 150 bands. Visit www.athfest.com or call 706-353-3244 for more information. June 28 The High Museum will host a panel discussion with Civil Rights icons John Lewis, Andrew Young and Dorothy Cotton at 2 p.m. June 28 in the Rich Theatre. Visit www.high.org or call 404-733-4437 for more information. Aug. 1 The Atlanta Symphony Orchestra will close the 2008 Arts Council Peace Series at 8 p.m. at the Arts Council Smithgall Arts Center. Call 770-534-2787 to purchase tickets. Aug. 9 The Atlanta Botanical Garden is hosting a Plant Lovers' Plant Sale from 9 a.m. to 4 p.m. Aug. 9. Iris, daylilies, begonias, African violets and related gesneriads will be on sale. Mini-seminars will be held throughout the day with experts from each plant group presenting. Entry to the plant sale is included with garden admission. Sept. 12 The Atlanta Arts Festival will return to Piedmont Park. The festival will run from Sept. 12 to 14. Tickets cost $15 in advance for the Friday preview party, $20 at the door and Saturday and Sunday admission is free. Call 404-577-8686 for more information or e-mail firstname.lastname@example.com. Sept. 27 The Atlanta Botanical Garden will hold a Dahlia Show from noon to 7 p.m. Sept. 27 and from 9 a.m. to 4 p.m. Sept. 28. Blue ribbon Dahlias of every size and color from pompoms to dinner-plates and from white to purple-black will fill Mershon Hall. After the show, 500 blooms will be given out to garden visitors for free. Garden of Eden Ball will be held from 7 p.m. to midnight Sept. 27 at the Atlanta Botanical Garden. Ongoing events "Cocktails in the Garden" will be held from 6 to 10 p.m. every Thursday through Sept. 25 at the Atlanta Botanical Garden. Admission is $12 for nonmembers and free for garden members. A full cash bar is available. Sign up to receive monthly e-vites at www.atlantabotanicalgarden.org. Art Gallery Photography Exhibition of "Georgia's Last Wild Places" by photographer Marc Del Santro will be on display 9 a.m. to 7 p.m. Tuesday through Sunday until Aug. 3 at the Atlanta Botanical Garden. The work will be located in the Art Gallery in the Center for Conservation and Education adjacent to the Fuqua Orchid Center. "The Louvre and the Ancient World" will be on display through Sept. 7 at the High Museum of Art, 1280 Peachtree St. N.E., Atlanta. The exhibit is part of the Paris at the Woodruff and Louvre Atlanta series. Call 404-733-5000 or visit www.parisatthewoodruff.org. The Carter Library and Museum, which is located 441 Freedom Parkway in Atlanta, houses President Carter's papers and permanent displays on his life and administration. Admission is $8, $6 for students and senior citizens and free for ages 16 and under. Call 404-865-7100 or visit www.jimmycarterlibrary.org. The Georgia Aquarium, which includes more than 100,000 fish, is located at 225 Baker St. in Atlanta, across from Centennial Olympic Park. Daily admission to the aquarium is $22.75 for adults, $19.50 for those 55 and up and $17 for ages 3 to 12. Call 404-581-4000 or visit www.georgiaaquarium.org.
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NJ Comptroller Working on More Sandy Spending Audits [AUDIO]
Last week, a State Comptroller audit revealed a series of incorrect bills sent out by the company the Christie Administration hired to run Sandy clean up operations.
There was no definitive proof that the overcharges were intentional, but nine Jersey shore towns will be getting their money back. This is not the last you'll hear from Comptroller Matt Boxer when it comes to oversight of how federal Sandy relief aid is being spent.
"We have a lot of different ongoing Sandy work," explains Boxer. "We're reviewing contracts and procurement procedures. We are doing planning for a variety of Sandy-related audits."
In February, Gov. Chris Christie signed an Executive Order directing Boxer's office to conduct an independent, legal review of the procurement process for state contracts using federal reconstruction resources prior to the conclusion of the procurement process.
The order also mandated that all approved contracts be made publicly accessible on a State website in coordination with the Governor's Office of Recovery and Rebuilding and the State Comptroller.
"New Jersey has been entrusted with billions of dollars in federal funding so that we can move forward in the storm recovery and rebuilding process," said Christie after signing the order. "I want everyone to have confidence that those funds are being spent wisely and that contracts are managed properly in every respect, from procurement to execution."
The Sandy oversight responsibilities are welcomed by Boxer because he says the taxpayers should be secure in the knowledge that the federal aid is being spent wisely.
"We are focused like on laser on making sure no money is misspent," says Boxer.


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NEWS: Rangers 2013 Preseason Schedule
The Rangers have released their preseason schedule:
- 9/16 in New Jersey 7PM
- 9/17 in Philly 7PM
- 9/23 in Calgary TBD
- 9/24 in Edmonton 9:30PM
- 9/26 in Vancouver 10PM
- 9/27 in Vegas against LA 10PM
Games against the Flyers, Oilers, Canucks and Kings were previously announced.
The Rangers will spend the first month of the season on the road and away from Madison Square Garden as the final stages of the renovation are being finished.
The Traverse City tournament starts on 9/5 and ends on 9/9.
Training Camp starts on September 11
NEW YORK, July 16, 2013 – The New York Rangers have announced their 2013 preseason schedule today, which includes a total of six games, one of which will be held on neutral ice.
The Rangers 2013 preseason schedule opens on Monday, September 16, against the Devils at Prudential Center. The Rangers will then face-off against the Philadelphia Flyers at Wells Fargo Center on Tuesday, September 17. Following their game against the Flyers, the Blueshirts will then head west for three games in Canada. They will travel to Calgary on Monday, September 23 to play the Flames at Saddledome, before facing the Edmonton Oilers the next day at Rexall Place. They will then travel to Vancouver to play the Canucks on September 26 at Rogers Arena. Following their Canadian campaign, the Blueshirts will take on the Los Angeles Kings on Friday, September 27 on neutral ice in Las Vegas, Nevada.
The 2013 New York Rangers training camp begins with players reporting to Madison Square Garden Training Center on Wednesday, September 11.
Monday, Sept. 16 New Jersey Newark, New Jersey 7:00 PM
Tuesday, Sept. 17 Philadelphia Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 7:00 PM
Monday, Sept. 23 Calgary Calgary, Alberta TBD
Tuesday, Sept. 24 Edmonton Edmonton, Alberta 9:30 PM
Thursday, Sept. 26 Vancouver Vancouver, British Columbia 10:00 PM
Friday, Sept. 27 Los Angeles Las Vegas, Nevada 10:00 PM


text: http://askubuntu.com – I m starting to have lot of favorite questions in my AskUbuntu account. So it takes my time to search and find a Question in my favorites. Knowing that these Questions have tags (like ATI, Wine, USB, UNITY, ...), is there a way to sort them ? or is there a way to perform a query search in AskUbuntu specifying that I want to search only in my favorites ? Something like this would be perfect: (HowTos)


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Homeschool Spot
Homeschool Spot Forums
Homeschooling in the News
> Spanking Children - California
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Spanking Children - California
Ohio Mom
I thought this was very interesting. What more are they going to tell us we can't do?http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,245218,00.html
My minister mentioned that during his sermon yesterday. I was shocked and appalled. I have a very strong-willed 2 1/2 yr old. She could care less if I take her toys away. Time-out barely bothers her. A lot of times, a spanking is the only thing that matters to her.
I agree with a law like this, though. It's about spanking a child under 4 yrs old. Outright 'wap-wap-wap-' spanking on a child that small isn't needed. NOW- what they are going to have to be careful of is not getting all bent out of shape at the parent who swats- one swat- the butt of a toddler reaching for the hot stove after being told not to. There's a big difference there, and they will need to find a way to differentiate.
There was a story some time ago in our paper where a dad had spanked his little one -still in diapers- and left black and blue marks on its butt. If nuts would be sterile upon birth we wouldn't needs all this oversight...
No, Becky, I disagree. First of all, people will consider that "one swat" a "spank". And sometimes a child as young as three or four DOES need an actual "spanking", more than that "swat". If you don't, you'll have an out of control child on down the road. There will always be people who abuse children. They need to be dealt with. But I still don't want anyone telling me how I can or cannot discipline my child.
I don't see how they could enforce such a law, anyway. Don't they have larger issues out there to deal with??
Very good point. But if you had a child running out from behind a car in a parking lot and you gave them that "swat", I could see someone calling Children's Services on you.
Jennifer R
A few years ago I had an incident with Joyce where she was mad at me for not buying something she wanted in the gas station so she refused to get in the van and was in fact running around it. Next thing I know I have the town's Police Chief standing beside us. He talked her into the van but at the same time told her he should let me have his belt!! I'm thinking "yeah, right, if I were to even spank her I would probably have been arrested!". I still hold it over her head about the time the PC had to make her get in the car!
We do not spank. We did in the past but not since we had a foster child whose father lost his temper while spanking his son and beat him black and blue from his waist down to the back of his knees. The child was 2 and a half. I know I would never do that to one of mine but that was just too much for me.
Our oldest was the only one we needed to spank. I say "needed to", because he would act worse and worse and worse, we'd try all the other things we could think of, and nothing would work. Then we would spank him, and it almost seemed like a relief to him almost. It was interesting. But then he'd be good as gold for some time.
Beth, my mom was a nurse down in the Loma Linda (CA)Medical Center. They had a 2 year old come in with a crushed chest--ribs broken, lungs puctured, barely hanging on to life. Why? Because the dad was working on him "to be a man!" They were outside playing football, and the ball hit the boy and he cried. So daddy was shoving on him, and throwing the ball hard at him, so help him be a man! Aaaahhhhh! How could anyone do such a thing?!!!
Oh! That is sickening.
There are many methods of discipline. All of them can be abused. None of them are effective on EVERY child. But spanking IS an option, and I believe we need to KEEP it an option. It is wrong for the government to take that option away from us.
When you are dealing with a child who has been physically abused, spanking surely is NOT an option!
Since the toddler was hurt playinf football - perhaps we should ban football?!
There will always be those who take things to the extreme - if we banned all those things instead of dealing with the perpetrators then no-one would be permitted to bo anything.
Well said, A'mum!
Years ago I worked at the telephone company and Bill was in daycare. The owner had a policy that when they talked to a child who had done something wrong they would face the child, get down at their level and hold the child's wrists so they had to face the worker. I told the lady not to do that with Bill because he had been abused and felt threatened if his hands were held like that and he would kick you. She said okay but she forgot or thought I didn't know what I was talking about. One day I went in to get him and she was limping. She said Bill had done something that she needed to talk to him about and she took him by both wrists and held him in front of her to talk to him and he hauled off and kicked the fire out of her leg! She seemed to want me to get upset with him and do something but I told her I was sorry it had happened but didn't she remember that I told her he would do just that? She never liked me very much after that. I have seen kids who thought a spanking was nothing and others who were traumatised by it. You have to know how to discipline each child individually in my opinion.
Rachael was one of those rare child that you could actually reason with at a young age! I did very little spanking with her. Faythe, on the other hand....
I was use to wlrking with Deaf children. With them, I would place my hand on the side of their face to make sure they were LOOKING at me when I spoke, or else they didn't "hear" me. So without thinking I one day tried to do it to a hearing kid "with an attitude". Boy, he flinched when I started to bring up my hand!!! I backed off right away, because I felt it was an error on MY part, not his!
They'd have to even define spanking. Is it the small swat I referred to? Is it with a hand or a belt? There's so much to this that I wonder if they realize what they started out there.
There are many methods of discipline. All of them can be abused. None of them are effective on EVERY child. But spanking IS an option, and I believe we need to KEEP it an option. It is wrong for the government to take that option away from us.
When you are dealing with a child who has been physically abused, spanking surely is NOT an option!
That is so true Jackie.
I think the govrnment is far to invloved in our lives to begin with and for some big wig in office to tell me I can't spank MY CHILD if I feel it necessary is absurd and insulting.
I am not for any law telling parents how to raise there children. Not that every law would be awful, but all it takes is one to get passed, then those who think they know best would keep taking it a step further until we would have no say over our own children.
I think this is just a huge glaring sign that our government is getting way too big. It is not their business how we discipline (not abuse) our children.
The government has no right to interefere with the raising of other people's children. People should discipline how they see fit. What works for some does not always work for others.
Most people have the common sense to know the difference between a swat or two and abuse.
We can not allow laws like this. California parents should be furious.
Well I will tell you ladies what happen to us a few years back. We were in good old Wally World shopping and were waiting in line to check out when my oldest wanted a candy bar her daddy told her no we were having lunch soon she got so mad she sat on the floor and throw a fit then started throwing candy bars all over the place. My dh picked her up and gave her a pat on the butt I mean pat she was still in diapers too. So, I know she could hardly feel it. She stop and stood there and said ok then. There was a older lady behind us and she got very upset and told my dh he shouldn't do it. I said do you have children she said no. I said then... and left it at that. During that time my dh was going through chemo treatments. Guess what the next day Social workers were at our door checking my dd over. Man some people can't even mind there own business. Nothing became of it. But, my dh felt bad about it and he wasn't feeling good at the time. Social workers checked her over good, our house and see if we were clean people it was just a pain more then anything.
Ohio Mom
If the government has the right to tell us we are not allowed to spank our children, they will then feel they can tell us where we have to send our children to school, where we have to send our children to worship, and on and on and on. We will not have any control over our children at all. What does that remind you of??? I say keep out of my children/grandchildrens lives, God gave them to us to raise, nobody else. I know this is not the Christian area - but - the Bible does say "He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes" "The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left to himself bringeth his mother to shame".
Unfortunately we are under a godless government.
Kris, did SS have a warrent to enter your home? In California they cannot enter your home without a warrant, which means they have to have probable cause to get a warrent issued by a judge. This doesn't mean all SS workers or CPS follow the law. They have unlawfully entered into far to many California homes without consent. The only way they can enter without a warrent around here is if they see it as an emergency and even then they need legitimate reasons. Since some SS workers, etc... do not abide by the law and California being a sue happy state, people are getting them in the pocket book where it hurts. Unfortunately many California homeschoolers and people in general do not realize because of the Calabretta v. Floyd, civil rights lawsuit, all social workers can not enter the home legally without a warrent. This is not simply for homeschoolers either. Officials are not immune to having to follow the law, although some think they are.:roll:
The Calabretta is a binding authority throughout the Ninth Circuit-Alaska, Arizona, California, Guam, Hawaii, Idaho, Montana, Nevada, Northern Mariana Islands, Oregon, and Washington.
I have a copy that I keep by my door because HSLDA said it would be wise to hand it to the authorities if they ever try to enter our home without a warrent.
Just a little backstory to this story... they are modeling this "law" after ones that are already in place in some European countries. Sweden,Norway,Denmark, etc, they all have a law just like this. So be warned..if you go to Europe and spank your kids in public you ,may be in a lot of trouble!
A few "expects" and the writer of this law were on Good Morning America Saturday, it was a very heated debate. The childcare expects keep saying it was a needed law that children younger then 3 can not understand why they were being spanked, that they just think you are being mean. Well the opposing voice ( the expert againist the law) said that if a puppy can learn potty training and not to bite things and understand that it will get spanked for that then a child should be able to understand that concept also. Man you would have thought World War 3 broke out after he said that! The Childcare experts were all yelling at him and the hosts of the show were kind of laughing, it was something else!
IMO this is VERY dangerous, slipper slope that we, as a country ,are on. Ohio Grandma has it right, next they will pass this "law" , they already passed a "law" againist trans-fat and foie gra(duck livers) because it was making people fat and costing the government Medical/Medicare money, who is to say that the next 'law" will NOT be about homeschooling? Its just a matter of WHEN not if anymore. If we start now by saying this law is wrong ,then they will know that parents are not going to let the government run our PERSONAL lives.
My husband had a point. If it comes down to following God's law or the law of the land, we need to follow God's law. Not all children need to be spanked. I've dealt with children that a simple no is traumatic to them. I've met other children that weigh consequence against the action and will still do the action- I'm raising one :D
Also, if it comes down to smacking my child's hand to keep them from touching a hot stove- I would rather my child be temporarily hurt from a smack, then permantly scarred from touching the stove.
Patty, I they didn't have a warrent. At that time in life I didn't know they had too. My life was mess then, two very young children and a sick dh. I was so stress out.
Ava Rose
First of all, spanking is NOT abuse. I don't think a law needs to be in place for those who cannot control their anger. I have a 20 month old and I have swatted her. My other kids were spanked under 4. I also think it is insane that the article implied someone would spank an infant or a newborn. I am not for any law that takes away parental rights. NO matter how you feel about spanking, you need to see where this is heading. The state should not be allowed to tell us how to raise our kids. Where does it stop? As Jackie said, there will always be child abuse. Those people need to be dealt with in an approiate manner. I am also insulted that I would be lumped in the same catorgory as a man who beat his kid black and blue. I mean c'mon!
Sloan, I understand why you hesitate to spank. I think you are being wise. A child who was a victim of abuse needs special handling and attention. However, there is a difference between that child and my children. My children are not abused. My children are not tramatized by getting spanked. In fact, when my kids see other kids in stores acting crazy, my dd even says they need to be spanked. lol. Oh, and Sloan, I am not directing comments at you...I think you are making very considerate and wise decisions. I thank God for people like yourself, who take in foster kids and treat them with such love.
Kris, that must have been nerve recking. SS appears to hold a lot of authority and sadly many abuse their power. I'm sorry that happened to you.
This law will not stop abuse. Abusers will continue to abuse others. The law will attempt to distract others, who do not abuse, from disciplining their children as they see fit. I think they need to focus on the laws that deal with the consequences abusers will face because abusers are not going to go away due a law.
Ohio Mom
Another thing, think about the children who will be out of control because they know that they will not be allowed to be spanked - if this country stops spanking in the homes - the homes will be just like the classrooms - no respect, no control and children running the homes instead of parents. Sloan, I also understand where you are coming from - not all children respond to spankings, I have one that we discipline other ways - None of my dc or dgc have been abused in that way, so I don't understand completely. I just don't want the government to be in control of how I raise my children and yes, this will not stop the abusers. They will do it whether there is a law or not. In fact, there is a law now, we cannot abuse our children, people go to jail for that??? Why then this new law??? People have way too much time on their hands and it's not being used to think rationally.
Actually, I think the abuse will go up, not down. Parents will have had that method of discipline taken from them. They will have to resort to others that might not be as effective for their kids. More kids will be more out of control, which means more frustrated parents, which causes them to react out of frustration and anger.
Kris, I think I mentioned one time that I was in a store where a preschooler was in the shopping cart, screaming his head off. The guy ahead in me in line complained about the child's behavior. I pretty much went off on this guy. Told him that the child probably wanted to run up and down the aisles, and the mom wasn't allowing it. At least she was trying to control the kid! And of course she couldn't give it the swat it needed in public!
So I guess your husband was suppose to take your precious toddler by the hand and tell it, "Honey, Daddy loves you, but you can't throw candy at the store! That's not nice!" and your little one will understand immediately and stop, right? And they say kids can't understand why they're being swatted, but they CAN understand reasoning? Yeah, right!!!
Ava Rose
""I think it's pretty hard to argue you need to beat a child," Lieber said. "Is it OK to whip a 1-year-old or a 6-month-old or a newborn?""
"Lieber said her proposal would make spanking, hitting and slapping a child under 4 years old a misdemeanor. Adults could face up to a year in jail and a $1,000 fine."
I object to the wording used here....spanking is not the same as beating, whipping, slapping or hitting. The wording is telling us the mood and motivation of this law. Soon, we will have no rights as parents to discipline our children. If spanking is abolished, do you think it will stop there? Will we be told how many minutes are acceptable in time-outs? And let's discuss how this law will be implemented. Do you think it will just be those who spank in public? Will children be interviewed at school or doctor's offices without parental consent? I don't think these social workers are going to wait on phone calls and public spankings. I also don't care to have spanking defined. Will they tell me I can't spank with a belt or a paddle? Too many rights are in jeopardy when we have laws for the "welfare of the child." Will homeschooling be abolished because the state can't keep a watchful eye on our kids? I have already told my kids awhile back not to discuss the way we discipline in mixed company. Never know what busy body will think the welfare of my child is better off in the hands of social services.
So no one here thinks 2 or 3 is too young to get spanked?
I have to say that if I knew then what I know now, I'd have never spanked Kevin when he was small. There are too many better ways to handle misbehavior. Spanking is all I saw growing up- with a belt, paddle ball paddle, or whatever was handy. Kids on tv got sent to their rooms! That wasn't real punishment!
Jeannie has to do something totally incredible to get it on the butt. I'd go as far as to say if she had tossed candy like Kris's little one I wouldn't swat her for it.
Of course... Karma will kick in the next time we're in the grocery store and she'll do just that! You all know that, right??
I will spank for complete and willing disobedience for authority or if Ems does something to physically hurt another person. I have not spanked her in ages and I may not ever have to again. I do believe their are other options but not all options are appropriate for each negetive action a child takes. I think the punishment needs to fit the crime. Each child is different and only the parents of each child can determine what is appropriate for their child. I do not think spanking a child under 4 years of age is abuse, I think beating a person of any age is abuse. Children are learning from day one and I do not believe in allowing certain behaviors to pass with simply a time out. I do think spanking a baby is wrong but most people I know do not spank babies.
Well Becky I just don't believe that the goverment should be able to regulate how we as parents decide to discipline our children. Now I have very very rarely spanked my kids - never really had to. I use the naughty step with dd3 and it works great with her and dd10 has maybe been spanked once or twice. But there are instances when a simple pop on the butt is in order. I'm not one who has ever used a belt or anything other than my hand and even then only a pop on the bottom to get their attention and only when neccessary.
I guess my gripe really has a lot less to do with spanking and a lot more to do with government intrusion into our private lives.
Ava Rose
So no one here thinks 2 or 3 is too young to get spanked?
I have to say that if I knew then what I know now, I'd have never spanked Kevin when he was small. There are too many better ways to handle misbehavior. Spanking is all I saw growing up- with a belt, paddle ball paddle, or whatever was handy. Kids on tv got sent to their rooms! That wasn't real punishment!
Jeannie has to do something totally incredible to get it on the butt. I'd go as far as to say if she had tossed candy like Kris's little one I wouldn't swat her for it.
Of course... Karma will kick in the next time we're in the grocery store and she'll do just that! You all know that, right??
Parenting is often reactionary. If you grew up as you did, Becky, I can see why spanking seems harsh to you. If one grows up where spanking was done correctly...not out of anger...for discipline and correction, than one may not be belt shy. KMIM?
We also all have differing opinions on what is spanking worthy. Of course if it is used for everything it will be come ineffective. I spank for lying or direct disobedience. I know that sounds pretty general...but it is easier for me to take things on a case by case basis. For instance, the first time my son rode his bike in the street after being told not to, I spanked him. That was serious and disobedient regardless of it being the first time or not. Now, for throwing candy in a store...I may say something first and if it continued I would spank for sure. However, I can't say it was unreasonable for Kris's dh to spank the child. I also think spanking should be done without emotion. It is a punishment meant for correction, not for humiliation or in anger. I also don't spank in front of others...I think that is embarressing to the child and uncomfortable for everyone else. Again, not to say that a swat on the butt for misbehaving in a store counts for that.
I see no problem with spanking a child at the age of 2 or 3. In fact, I think that is when it is most effective. I hardly have to spank my ds now at the age of 7. He used to get spanked several times a week at the age of 2 and 3. My ds got spanked a whole lot at 3 but hardly ever after that.
Once I was in store, and I was speaking to a man who mentioned he has a child. I asked him how old his dd was and he said that she was four. I commented that 4 is a nice age. He replied that it was a great age because by four kids have been spanked enough that they know how to act. LOL. That is not an example of anything...just an antidote. Although, I must say I tend to agree.
I also think that it is more abusive to scream and yell and possibly call your kids stupid than spank them. That is also just a thought...not implying that those who don't spank do that.
Again, we are talking definition. Becky, you said that you considered a "swat" on the behind OK. But these people feel that ANY physical discipline is the same as "beating" the child. One swat with a wooden spoon they could consider "beating with a rod".
A case in point. I'm sure Ava Rose and G'ma has heard about the parents who were recently convicted for keeping their special needs adopted kids in "cages". These "cages" were a lot like big baby cribs. Beds with bars on them. They had been advised to do this BY THE PSYCHOLOGIST. It had to do with the safety of the children. They somehow had it rigged to where an alarm went off so they knew when the children got up. Again, this had to do with safety of special needs children, and they were doing this on the advice of a "professional". Well, people hear the word "cages", and I think right away of what one would keep a dog in, like a kennel, not a very large crib. So public opinion was very much against these "abusive" parents from the start, just on the term used.
If we were to take a poll asking how many thought it was appropriate to "beat" a 4YO occassionally, how many thought it appropriate to "spank" a 4YO occassionally, and how many thought it was appropriate to give a 4YO a "swat on the rear" occasionally, you'd get three very different responses from the exact same people. It's all a matter of wording.
So no one here thinks 2 or 3 is too young to get spanked?
I have to say that if I knew then what I know now, I'd have never spanked Kevin when he was small. There are too many better ways to handle misbehavior. Spanking is all I saw growing up- with a belt, paddle ball paddle, or whatever was handy. Kids on tv got sent to their rooms! That wasn't real punishment!
Jeannie has to do something totally incredible to get it on the butt. I'd go as far as to say if she had tossed candy like Kris's little one I wouldn't swat her for it.
Of course... Karma will kick in the next time we're in the grocery store and she'll do just that! You all know that, right??
Ok Becky, you said you wouldn't have swat her if she would of done what my dd did? well I want to make it clear it wasn't a swat it was a pad on the bottom and remember she had diapers on. What would you have done? Picked her and took her out of the store and talked to her. KIND of late for a little one. Dr. Spock always said if you don't bite the problem in the butt right there on the spot they wouldn't remember what they did by the time you take them to the car. I feel we did the right thing. Social worker or no social worker at my door. If we had to do it all over again I would still back my dh up. I think it's bad when a Child in a store is having a fit and the parents do nothing about it. Shows bad parenting in my book.
And for the books my dd has never and I mean never had her bottom pad again. She learned from it. So, it must of worked.
They looked like cages, Jackie!! I saw that story on the news. I wondered if the Psycho got his degree from a Cracker Jack box!
Ohio Mom
Yes, Jackie, I agree. I did hear about the people who put their special needs children in "cages". I also thought it was safer for everyone involved. As I followed the case, it seemed like the children had some real issues. We built a place for our dgd - it is a 1/4 wall around an area 12 X 12. I can see her, but she can't get out. I can lift her over the side. When people see this they say, "Oh I see you built a cage for Gianna" I immediately say NO it is a play area. I can just see this getting around that I keep Gianna in a cage. It's hard raising children in this time. When I was being raised, it was so different. My parents did not abuse me, but we did get spanked if we needed it - in public or not. People didn't hesistate to spank in public. I never was spanked after I turned 4 - I didn't need it. I learned at an early age. Of course that was back in the 50's.
Kris, my 'swat' and your 'pad' sound like the same thing. A swat is barely forceful, but on a 2 or 3 yr old it would do the trick. My 'swat' would make an older child have to stifle laughter!
No, I still don't think I'd do that, though. I'm not putting your husband down, either- please get that. That's not what I'm saying at all. If it had been me, her tossing the candy was turmoil enough. I'd have laid her out to be sure and tried to get her to help clean it up. If that didn't work I'd have handled it outside, not in front of a cast of thousands.
Jeanne gets a mouthy streak when she's tired and she'll shriek at the top of her lungs. When that happens I hasten to get us out of the environment and handle it outside. By that time she has created enough of a circus, so why add to it ?
I am not completely against government, it has a place but not in the home. They cross the line when they try to tell parents what they can and can't do with their children, in regards to raising them. Again, if a parent is abusive, it is not going to stop them from hurting their child. Abuse has been against the law before this possible law ever came up and it still will be if it fails. They are completely missing the point and trying to attack it from the wrong side of the fence.
I find it sad that they would punish parents for up to 1 year in prison and a fine of $1,000 for spanking when a female teacher from Florida has a sexual relationship with a 14 year old middle school student and gets only house arrest.
What does this say about the state of things in this country? Something is seriously messed up.
I agree with timkelmom.
I find it sad that they would punish parents for up to 1 year in prison and a fine of $1,000 for spanking when a female teacher from Florida has a sexual relationship with a 14 year old middle school student and gets only house arrest.
What does this say about the state of things in this country? Something is seriously messed up.
Here's another thought. While I strongly oppose this law and any other like it, I find it interetesting that people feel so passionately about the government interfering with the discipline of their children, but they are perfectly fine with letting the government raise their children, feed their children, educate their children, or telling them what rights they have about their own bodies.
I don't mean anyone specifically on here, just people in general.
If social services (or any other idiotic government agency) would have the nerve to set foot on MY property and tell ME what to do with MY child---I can promise you the stink I would raise would be on every news station in the world. When are they gonna let people alone and worry about the real problems in this world??? I betcha you NEVER see social services or any other dumb agency checking on soldiers' (the ones serving in Irag and overseas) families to see if they could do anything to HELP the parents that are raising the kids by themselves......They really need to get a life and do something useful for a change!!!:confused:
This thread is so "right on!" The issue is about more than spanking: it's about who has the privilege of raising our children.
I agree.
Ava Rose
Well, I guess all of this is a part of a grand scheme to indoctrinate our children to human secularism.
They are trying to squeeze it in however they can.
Honestly it scares me! There is a distinct difference between a spank (swat, pad, etc...) and beating. I was abused as a child. I walked around with one of my moms DH's names black and blued on my backside. From my legs on up to my back. That to me is ABUSE.
A spanking is not abuse.
I have spanked. Some days they still do recieve a spank. They are forwarned and will typically adjust their behavior before it gets to that point now.
It scares me because there are people out there who beat the heck out of kids and nothing happens to them while big brother and every body else in the world is concerned that you spanked your child and is ready to call DCFS on you if you even hint that you might spank your child.
Ava Rose
It scares me because there are people out there who beat the heck out of kids and nothing happens to them while big brother and every body else in the world is concerned that you spanked your child and is ready to call DCFS on you if you even hint that you might spank your child.
A friend of mine knew for a fact that a little foster boy, about 5, that lived with an in-law was being terribly abused. She called Children's Services. They came out and talked for about an hour and then left. NOthing came of it. Sadly, the state had been called about this several times by different people---a few who actually lived in the same house. Nothing was ever done. The kid no longer lives there but that isn't because the state intervened.
I am interested to see how Sally Lieber pieces this together. She needs to define spanking and find a way to enforce it.
Sally Lieber said, "I think it's pretty hard to argue you need to beat a child. Is it OK to whip a 1-year-old or a 6-month-old or a newborn?"
She is trying to label a spank as a beating. In order to do this she has to redefine a beating as well if she plans on saying that a swat on the tushy is a beating. Those who have been beat clearly know what a beating is. This lady is going to have her work cut out.
Patty, I hope you're right, but I don't think you are. There's an "anti-spaking" movement in this country, and I believe it is gaining momentum. This is already law in other countries, and I think it's only a matter of time before it becomes law here, too.
Unfortunately, I think you're right Jackie. Spanking is no longer considered a reasonable punishment for a huge population of people.
When I was in college, my Exceptional Children class professor was constantly lecturing on how horrible spanking is. I'm sure that view is taught even more now.
There are certainly other ways to discipline. At our house the rule is to use what works. If taking away priviledges works, we do that. But sometimes a spanking is needed.
I still think it going to be interesting to see how it pans out. They have to enforce it. Their are a lot of laws that go by the wayside because they can't be enforced or minimally enforced. There are cases of spankings that have been labeled as abuse but by the time law enforcement can intervene or CPS, charges or the investigation is dropped because in order to charge a person, there has to be evidence. Usually they can't find evidence for a spanking. They have to prove damages have accured. If they can find damage, then maybe the parents should be charged because it would be true abuse, in my opinion.
In the city over, a lady was on Oprah or Montel, a few years back. The show was about spanking. A ladies 14 year old son kept coming home late so she paddles his tush with a paddle. The school told the children to call 911 if the parents spank them. Well, the boy did. They came out and arrested the mom. When CPS finally arrived to the department, they took the boy to the hospital and gave the boy a strip search, they checked genitals and all :eek: , to make sure the boy wasn't sexually abused. The doctor found no abuse and any redness was diminished by the time this came about. So, basically there was no evidence. Charges where dropped and the mom was released. When asked if she would ever spank her son again by the show host, she said, "You bet! If he's going to live in my house it will be by my rules."
So even if a law passes, it has to be enforced and the situation above doesn't happen often, not that is alright. Most officers, not all, regardless of what the news says, have level heads.
If an officer responds to a call of abuse, regardless of age of the person being abused, it is the officers choice to arrest or not arrest according to the evidence. Charges do not have to be pressed by the victim, it is the officers call. If a person presses charges without evidence, the burden of proof rests on their shoulders. The officers I have known through school, and granted it isn't all of them, spank there own children. There are a few high and mighty officers, like this Leslie lady who is trying to pass this law, that try to pull what the officer did with the lady in the city over. Usually it is the younger, fresh out of the academy officers. The officers who have been on the streets for years fighting crime, drugs, abuse, murders come to a point where they learn to pick and choose their battles. An officer can be reprimanded for waisting the cities time and money.
The way I view it is:
I think this law would stink if it passes, I do not believe the government has any right to pass the gates of my dwelling, but if it passes, they still have to prove a crime was commited. Many Californians know just how often true criminals are released because of the way the California Judicial System works. It is warped.
All we can do is pray, raise our children to know that a spanking is a blessing when done correctly and write our government as to how we feel about it.
I still think that there is a lot to carrying this out, even if it passes. When I think about it, there are thousands of truly abused children still in the home because California requires evidence. That is what stinks.
Here's the thing, though. The mother admitted that she DID spank the boy, and would do so again. And yes, I agree with what she did and don't consider it at all abusive. BUT if this law was passed and 911 was called, it doesn't matter if any "damage" was done or not. If they interview the kid and the kid says "Mom hits me sometimes", the parent could be fined, jailed, loose the kids, etc. Whether there was physical evidence or not.
Plus we won't mention kids that are angry with their parents and make things up, just because they would be "happier" living with at their friend's house (because their parents don't give a hoot about disciplining kids and doesn't have any rules, etc.), or because her boyfriend's mom is "cool" and will let her move in, etc.
That's what's scary about this to me---the kids that know good and well an adult has no way to discipline!
Kids already are getting out of control, if you keep taking away disipline measures, then how will they learn right from wrong, if adults have no rights?!
The boy calling 911 on his mom was a shameful act but I do not think it is the norm, not yet anyways. I do not think to many children under 4 years of age are going to call 911, although anything is possible now a days. I have seen and heard of some stranger things and yes, the older children can call for the younger ones and many other things can come of it. We live in scary times but God is still bigger then these problems we have here on earth.
It will be ashame if it passes because as I said in another post, this lady is trying to stop abuse from the wrong side of the fence but the Republicans who are against it do give me hope. I do not ever want to give up on that. That is something nobody can take away.:D
If I give up hope, regardless of the law passing or not passing, then they have won. I try not to give people that much authority over my life.
I root for the mom who had the courage to stand up for what was right. That was a gutsy lady.:D
I liked her!
She wasn't going to allow the government to dictate how she was going to raise her child, law or no law. I only pray that all parents have the same gumption to stand up for what is right if the time ever comes.
It sure taught her son a lesson. He said he would never call 911 again. He realized that he not only hurt his mom, he embarrassed the pants of himself, literally.:lol:
I had a foster daughter once who was taken into care at the age of 8 because she told the guidance counselor at school that her father had raped her. Our pastor and his wife were foster parents and they had a little girl whose step father had molested her. I think she was 9. Anyway the two girls knew each other and were friends. On the day we went to court the lawyer came to talk to our foster daughter before the case was called and the next thing I know I am being told I can go home. And they said the little girl would be going home with her parents. She told the lawyer that she and the other little girl had been talking and thought they could go live together if they told the same story. The other little girl had been molested but ours lied. Her father had been arrested and gone through all that nonsense because the girls lied to the school counselor. I have heard people say kids can't make up some of the abuse stories but if they have heard it from a friend they know what to say and a persons reputation can be ruined because of it. I have always wondered if that poor father was ever able to get over what his daughter did to him. I was thinking about kids calling social services over spankings and just remembered those little girls.
I was thinking about kids calling social services over spankings and just remembered those little girls.
The older children who are old enough to understand just might,simply because they are already doing it now without a law. Sadly, it will be nothing new.
Our neighbor's daughter threatened to call children's services on her dad. And this was NOT an abusive father. The middle child got mouthy, and Dad smacked her. She was a young teen at the time, old enough to know better. The older high school girl jumped in and said he couldn't do that, and she'd call. Dad told her to go ahead and call, but to think VERY CAREFULLY about what the consequences could be, that it could even split them all up....She didn't call, but the older daughter REALLY THOUGHT at the time that calling would be the "right" thing to do because of the crap the counselors, etc. were telling them at school.
The problem here is this. Kids are taught in government school that hitting of any kind is abuse and they are given the numbers and contact information for social services by their school teachers. They are encourage to call. They are taught how to call and what to say as young as 6.
Also, the kids think if they call that someone will just come out and tell their parents not to do it anymore. They don't realize what can actually happen. Their parents will be arrested, they will often be embarrassed like the boy in the previous story.
The main thing they don't realize is that they will not be going to a friends house, or the cooler parent's house. They can be sent to some pretty awful places.
Kid's should know the difference between abuse and discipline, and should ask for help only when truly necessary.
Children also need to understand the difference between knowing when they actually did wrong and must take the consequences of their actions, that sometimes parents make mistakes and they might be punished when they were innocent, and parents that are abusive and out of control.
I was accused and investigated three times for abusing Kevin, when he was in elementary school. The first two times were the principal's doing. With the third time there was a new principal that knew Kevin had learned how to play the game. By that third time, I'd have paid social services to strip seach Kevin's behind, just to teach him a lesson. When a child like that makes their bed they need to sleep in it, I say.
Again, we are talking definition. If we were to take a poll asking how many thought it was appropriate to "beat" a 4YO occasionally, how many thought it appropriate to "spank" a 4YO occasionally, and how many thought it was appropriate to give a 4YO a "swat on the rear" occasionally, you'd get three very different responses from the exact same people. It's all a matter of wording.
You are a genius!
Just try to remember that "Government" does not exist. It does not breathe or think about you. Government is not alive, it is not seeking to get you, it is not after your information and it does not care to know more about you, or to control you..... it does not exist. However...... It is simply a manifest of those who are active in it.
Therefore, All government is an accumulation of thousands of "Special Interest Groups". You are simply seeing and hearing about these special interest groups work on the news because THEY are active. And powerful, because many of us get suckered into supporting them because they play on "Semantics" to get people on their side. ("Well, of course I am NOT for BEATING a child! Here, let me donate something to help this cause!")
THEY WILL make this country what they want it to be, unless YOU decide otherwise....
I have not had the time to read all the responses but I have been keeping up with the ridiculous proposal on other sites I belong to. I'm not sure if anyone mentioned it (sorry if I'm repeating a fact here), but did anyone know that the woman who proposed this law does NOT even have children of her own?!?! Figures.
Tanner's first swat on the butt was at age 2, and you can rest asure he knew what it was for and he most definitely learned from it. In my honest and humble opinion, a child under the age of 4 most certainly does know a lot of right from wrong and spanking can be effective when used appropriately. Under age 2 (well...I'd say more like under 18 months) I could side with, but ALL children under 4?! No way. BUT, JMO. :) ;) I think this whole proposed ban is truly dumb. They should be concentrating on punishing the parents who beat their kids instead and making our current system harsher for people who truly deserve it!
but did anyone know that the woman who proposed this law does NOT even have children of her own?!?! Figures.
oh, gee - that figures!
oh, gee - that figures!She has two cats though.:roll: Maybe that's where she gets the ideas for her proposals. You know, children are the same as cats!:roll: Kidding!;)
Ava Rose
She has two cats though.:roll: Maybe that's where she gets the ideas for her proposals. You know, children are the same as cats!:roll: Kidding!;)
If only life were that easy! lol. I sometimes wish my kids were like my dog. lol. He never cries, whines, asks for anything, never bothers me if I am hormonal, he even keeps the mice away. Seriously....he is quite a mouser for a dog.
Okay first off I'm not a fan of spanking. Never was when I was on the receiving end of it (which was quite a bit) and haven't been since Squid was born. Squid was pretty easy to raise and still is. I can count the number of times I've had to spank him on one hand in 13 years. Two of mine though have unfortunately pushed the envelope to the point of where they get a spanking. To get there they have to push me a LONG way past the three strike rule which is First time I'm going to sit down and talk to you about why I don't want you to do this and what the repurcussions of continuing this behavior can and will be, Second time you're reminded more sternly, Third time will be a punishment that you do not like (I can be REAL creative on this one EG: Take a trash bag out in the front yard and pick up every stick you find. This is a real time wast because I have 21 oak trees), fourth and so on you get grounded, tv taken away, and so on. So you have to push me a LOOOONG way for me to get physical with you. That said when one of mine needs a swat or five then thats what they have to get and it's not up to anybody to tell me differently.
Exactly the point, Dichotomy! It's quite alright to use all those other things you mentioned, but when you, as their dad, feels a spanking is needed, shouldn't be anyone to tell you differently!
Thank you .. one thing I forgot to mention is that She Devil and I always consult prior to that point to ensure that we've tried everything we can think of to make our point regardless of where we are. If I'm at work and she feels it's needed they know that I know what's up at home and that not only are they getting spanked they are going to have to endure the lecture when I get home :lol: most times I think they'd rather push my buttons than hers because they only have to deal with it once ;)
Ava Rose
Dichotomy...nothing better than creative punishment! It works so well. On an older child I will have to say it is as effective as a spanking. I know I was never a big fan of spanking myself... I just see that it can be necessary for some kids. I will say I have spanked all my kids at some point. In fact, last week I spanked my son. That was the first time in a year! So, when dad got home...yep...he got a lecture. Now, that was the first time I spanked him. My dh just spanked the kid twice the week before. Oh and spanking never comes without a lecture....poor kids. My dh even sometimes implements creative punishments and lectures. LOL. Thankfully, all three never come together. lol. My ds goes through these little times where he gets really disobedient and just doesn't listen...more like he is on channel 13 while we all are on channel 12, kwim? He never has an attitude and would die before talking back. However, every now and then he needs a reminder. Then we can go about a year before spanking him again. lol. My dd never gets spanked anymore. My little dd....well.....her time is just arriving....I can see it in her personality already.....HELP! lol.
I am not for any law telling parents how to raise there children. I agree
This is an interesting topic I liked reading all the replys.
I am a firm believer in spanking especially when they are younger. I believe in time out first but if that dont work then the threat of a spanking comes next which needs to be followed out especially in public which is more likely where they will act up at.
I have dropped everything, gotten out of line to take my kids to the bathroom to disapline them. This took maybe two times to know that I mean business and I have never had a problem after that. "Do we need to go to the bathroom to take care of this problem?" amazing how after maybe one or two times that works.
I am also a firm believer that every family has the right to disapline how they see fit. However if your kids out of control still with your method you got to admit its not working eh.
Ever see the show the Nanny I think its called? She dosent spank and she is very strict. I like her methods so yes I can see it being done without spanking.
I agree
This is an interesting topic I liked reading all the replys.
I am a firm believer in spanking especially when they are younger. I believe in time out first but if that dont work then the threat of a spanking comes next which needs to be followed out especially in public which is more likely where they will act up at.
I have dropped everything, gotten out of line to take my kids to the bathroom to disapline them. This took maybe two times to know that I mean business and I have never had a problem after that. "Do we need to go to the bathroom to take care of this problem?" amazing how after maybe one or two times that works.
I am also a firm believer that every family has the right to disapline how they see fit. However if your kids out of control still with your method you got to admit its not working eh.
Ever see the show the Nanny I think its called? She dosent spank and she is very strict. I like her methods so yes I can see it being done without spanking.
SamI totally agree! I think you're talking about Supernanny. She's a hoot!
love supernanny here. She is hoot. We need more supernanny is America maybe things would be alot different. I don't know maybe not.
Yeah Kris, Only we need more superMoms and Dads, or just a little more courage to do what we know is the right thing. I used to give in just to not cause a scene. Not anymore. My kids know I will not put up with a disrespectful attitude and I don't care who is watching or where we are. I won't let them get away with bad behavior. I love my kids and want them to be great adults not spoiled, it's all about me, people! You all help me stick to my guns when I read your posts here. I know I am not alone. Beth
I got the naughty step idea from supper nanny and it works wonders on dd4. Not practical for dd10 but she hardly ever does anything that warrants punishment anyway.
So what is the naughty step?
Well suppet nanny used either a step stool or just a mat on the floor. When the child acts out (throwing fits things of that nature) she gave them one warning and then if they do it again they go on the naughty step for one minute per year of age. My dd is 4 so she has to sit on the step for 4 mins. The key is to get down on their level, look them in the eye and make them look you in the eye, tell them exactly what they did wrong and what you expect. When their time is up the must appologize for what they did.
We have a step stool for ours in the front room of the house. It works soooooo well for dd4. We usually don't even have to put her on it because now the warning works. It took some time of being consistant before it became really effective. She doesn't recomend it for older kids though. What amazes me is that the parents on the show never think it will work for their kid but it always does.
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text:
E.L.F. Jumbo Eyeshadow Stick Swatches
I picked up a few of the E.L.F. Jumbo Eyeshadow Sticks along with the Lip Gloss Pencils. Since I liked the lip pencils so much I'm hoping these Jumbo Eyeshadow Sticks prove just as nice.
They are available in 10 shades and each is a mere $2 bucks each! Perhaps they'll make a nice base for powder eyeshadow and pigments.
I'm busy testing at the moment but here are a few swatches of the shades I got!
Feeling Lucky, Little Miss Thing, Turkish Coffee, French Lace
I'll follow up with a review soon.
Anyone try them yet?
10/17/12 18:15 Kaitlyn Schisler:
These look great!
10/17/12 18:24 Amy:
Even if they get just a little bit muse-approved, I'll be excited!
10/17/12 18:43 Cindy:
Oh I like what I'm seeing! Can't wait for the full review!
10/17/12 19:00 renee:
I wasnt aware they were out yet.they look divine.i cant wait for ur review.
10/17/12 19:23 Karen P.:
Ooooooooo me likey!
10/17/12 21:01 Leigh:
Muse! those colors are beautiful! I hope it wears well because if it does I will be super happy!
10/17/12 21:25 Aliana:
French Lace looks sooo gorgeous!
10/17/12 22:48 Sweta:
These look gorgeous..waitin for your review..:)
10/18/12 3:18 monica:
french lace looks nice. Can't wait for you review!
10/18/12 8:00 Kiss & Make-up:
Oh wow, the colors look good. Can't wait for a full review!
10/18/12 8:52 Jo:
Are there any eyeliners/shadow sticks that are like little miss thing or even more of a gold you recommend? I need it for a halloween party this weekend but I can't find a really heavy duty gold. Thanks!
10/18/12 14:41 Danielle:
I used the Hot Gold(?) Jumbo Pencil as a base for a tutorial done by Kandee Johnson for New Years, its seriously gold. I liked it! Maybe that will work? Certainly cheap enough for a try!
10/18/12 11:50 Laurie:
French Lace looks nice. I hope they were well, can't wait for your review.
10/18/12 17:54 cat:
Ooo French Lace + MAC Naked Lunch?
10/19/12 16:12 Jen_M_sunshine:
Elf online is having 50% off eye products w $20 purchase…may have to grab these if I can purchase enough to get them for a $1……cuz you know having to pay that extra whole dollar will break my bank! Hahahaha…yeah right!
I am SO READY for the sephora vib sale it better come soon and be good after this f&f business..get 20% off at ulta on prestige stuff next week so may have to tame the beast in me by picking up a few things I was going to get at sephora!
10/20/12 3:38 Marie:
Wow those are gorgeous swatches!
10/22/12 17:49 Karena:
Thanks so much! I can't wait for they review. They look really pigmented!!


text:
I don't own anything Mr. Thompson had put out. Nothing in his lineup makes even my top ten...
ETA: Ok, that's not entirely true. I do have a Trailhawk.
I guarentee it would own anything Lynn Thompson wanted to stuff full of meat....The Potbelly is like an Alien that burst out of the chest of a BK2 three days ago.
I don't own anything Mr. Thompson had put out. Nothing in his lineup makes even my top ten...
ETA: Ok, that's not entirely true. I do have a Trailhawk.
Last edited by MikeyJ; 04-25-2012 at 06:42 PM. Reason: Minor retraction...
Oh yeah, love my Potbelly! Like an axe and a razor had an illegitimate love child. If it make you folks feel any better, my Potbelly thinks she's a Becker. Congrats on the new addition Tanner. By the way, this was the most difficult Ka-Bar/Becker that I've ever stripped. Stuff just didn't want to let go.
Some Potbelly porn.
Potbelly 2.jpg IMG-20120412-00119.jpg IMG-20120412-00114.jpg IMG-20120412-00117.jpg
I've opened up the choil at the ricasso since these pics. It makes for a really nice choke up, on detailed work.
Last edited by Wooly Bugger; 04-25-2012 at 09:19 PM.
I feel the hollow grind is a unfortunate choice. I would give it a shot....only if it were convexed.
I am curious as to how the handle feels? That design looks like it would either work great for the user or be a total nightmare depending on hand size. I read where you said it was more comfortable with the bigger blade. I wonder how it feels after extended use.
It does look like it will destroy some wood though. Grats
The handle is so different, it's something you just have to feel for yourself.
How contoured are the handles? Is there much palm swell?
I've never shaped micarta before, so I'm wondering how simple it would be to make new scales that match the factory shape if/when I get one.
Here she is....stripped with an initial polish on the grind. Now, off to the master for her clich treatment....
Attack of the choil. Say what you will, but it feels soooo good.
She's looking good Tanner!
Damn! You got LINERS on that thing? Handle wasn't big enough for ya? I'm not big on choils, myself.
Wow,those PBs look awesome when their naked like that!!
PB is a badass blade.
You really have to pick one up in your hand to appreciate it. Its like the first time you pick up a BK2 (obviously, this is heavier).
It is currently under the custodianship of the USPS en route to Pennsylvania for its date with destiny....
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Book Discussion: Thomas Mann's The Magic Mountain
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For our first meeting of 2014, we are reading Thomas Mann's classic, The Magic Mountain!
With this dizzyingly rich novel of ideas, Thomas Mann rose to the front ranks of the great modern novelists, winning the Nobel Prize in Literature in 1929. The Magic Mountain takes place in an exclusive tuberculosis sanatorium in the Swiss Alps–a community devoted to sickness that serves as a fictional microcosm for Europe in the days before the First World War. To this hermetic and otherworldly realm comes Hans Castorp, an "ordinary young man" who arrives for a short visit and ends up staying for seven years, during which he succumbs both to the lure of eros and to the intoxication of ideas.
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