text:
"The core Catholic claim"?
Joseph A. Komonchak February 6, 2013 - 10:47am
In the latest New Yorker, Adam Gopnik has a rather snarky review of a few recent works on Galileo. Towards the end, he offers an explanation of why the Church wouldnt tolerate his views at least as hypothesis:
Whatever might be said to accord faith and Copernicus, religion depends for its myth on a certain sense of scale.... Man must be at the center of a universe on a stable planet, or else the core Catholic claim that the omnipotent ruler of the cosmos could satisfy his sense of justice only by sending his son here to be tortured to death begins to seem a ittle frayed. Scale matters. If Clark Kent had never left Smallville, then the significance of Superman would be much reduced.
There could be some superficial merit in the argument about scale here: Pascal, for example, said that the eternal silence of the universes immensities terrified him. But, notice, it was the silence, not the immensities, that frightened him, and difference in scale was not the most important thing:
Man is but a reed, the most feeble thing in nature; but he is a thinking reed. The entire universe need not arm itself to crush him. A vapour, a drop of water suffices to kill him. But if the universe were to crush him, man would still be more noble than that which killed him, because he knows that he dies and the advantage which the universe has over him; the universe knows nothing of this.All our dignity consists, then, in thought. By it we must elevate ourselves, and not by space and time which we cannot fill.
But what struck me was the ignorance displayed in Gopnik's throwaway summary of the core Catholic claim which seriouslymisrepresents the core Catholic belief in redemption through the death and resurrection of Christ.Many Christians, including even many Catholics, may hold something like that view of the atonement, which in turn, of course, repels many others. Another reason for profound regret at the low level of knowledge and understanding of the faith.
Commenting Guidelines
Ann: Just to clarify. The reference to "little ones" is owed to Jesus. See Matt 11:25--"I praise you, Father, because you have hidden these things from the wise and clever but have revealed them to the little ones." So it's Jesus who's being "patronizing"?
I disagree. For Jesus to call any human "little' is one thing. For Ratzinger to do so is another. And in Gerelyn's quotation while he is indirectly referring to Jesus' remark, he is also speaking fr himself, and that is patronizing.
We disagree about that. If he wants to use Jesus' term, I don't find that any more patronizing than when Jesus used it. His words, as reported, some to me a perfect reflection of what Jesus said and meant, and it would have been a useful reminder to the members of the International Theological Commission.
Agree, Joseph. Quoting one of Jesus' most famous sayings is hardly patronizing.
Cur Deus homo has a wikipedia page, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cur_Deus_Homoleading to a page about St Anselm's satisfaction view of atonement, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atonement_(satisfaction_view)that contains an Aquinas section with the, cough, "standard Catholic understanding of atonement", for example: the atonement consisted in Christ's giving to God more "than was required to compensate for the offense of the whole human race." The entire article has not a single occurrence of the word "love".
I would not want to say this about Jesus, so I guess I must fault Matthew, if it is a fault. Isn't Mt. 11:25 a bit vague? Not the wise and clever vs. the little ones part, but the substance of what the Father has withheld from the first and revealed to the second group. It is identified only as "these things" and "them," and the previous verses do not seem to provide any likely antecedents. It is as if this verse was taken from somewhere else and just plopped down here. So maybe I should absolve Matthew and charge some sleepy copyist. Or is it clearer than I think?
Why don't the Catholic theologians correct the Wikipedia page? This really is an extremely important topic. Or maybe they're trying.
Ann, why don't you set to editing it yourself? You have documents to draw on. Just click on "edit" in the top right part of the page. You won't make it quite right, but you can make it better than it is, while keeping it short and simple, of course...
Hi, John:Imho, Matthew 11 is one of the clearest chapters in the gospels. If any words can be safely ascribed to Jesus, imho, they are the words of that chapter. John the Baptist was in prison, and he heard what Jesus was doing. (Working miracles.) He sent his followers to see what was going on, and Jesus gave them an earful.(Imho, Jesus is saying that little children are not fooled by hypocrites, naked emperors, etc.)I think the series on the Bible that the History Channel will be showing, starting in March, shows Jesus being dunked by John the Baptist, so maybe there will be a dramatization of the lament in Matthew 11, too. -----And from the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent bear it away.But whereunto shall I esteem this generation to be like? It is like to children sitting in the market place.Who crying to their companions say: We have piped to you, and you have not danced: we have lamented, and you have not mourned.For John came neither eating nor drinking; and they say: He hath a devil.The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say: Behold a man that is a glutton and a wine drinker, a friend of publicans and sinners. And wisdom is justified by her children.Then began he to upbraid the cities wherein were done the most of his miracles, for that they had not done penance.Woe to thee, Chorazin! woe to thee Bethsaida! for if the works of power which have taken place in you, had taken place in Tyre and Sidon, they had long ago repented in sackcloth and ashes.But I say unto you, it shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon in the day of judgment, than for you.And thou Capharnaum, shalt thou be exalted up to heaven? thou shalt go down even unto hell. For if in Sodom had been wrought the miracles that have been wrought in thee, perhaps it had remained unto this day.But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.At that time Jesus answered and said: I confess to thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them to the little ones.http://bible.cc/matthew/11-1.htm
Claire ==I'm afraid I'd do more harm than good if I tried to edit it. Years ago I did edit the R. C. Zaehner page, but I have studied his basic theory of mysticism in some detail. I can't say the same for the theology of redemption.You do it :-) You've done a lot of reading about it, and you write particularly clearly.(Where are all these new evangelists? You'd think they'd take advantage of Wikipedia.)
Ann, those new evangelists are probably too busy re-reading the CCC. Sigh.
Mt 11:25-30 is sometimes called the "Johannine thunderbolt," because the language is more similar to that of the Fourth Gospel than to that typical of the Jesus of the Synoptic Gospels. It has a parallel in Luke's Gospel, and so the scholars trace it to the famous "Q-document."
Joe,thanks for retrieving your article. It says a great deal, in a very helpful way.You write: "The reign of sin and death were absorbed by his love and forgiveness, and a frightful evil was transformed into a transcendent good, an execution became a self-sacrifice."And again: "God in his wisdom and goodness chose not to free humanity from evil by some great act of power; he chose rather that Christ encounter that evil and transform it by his love into the great good that is the salvation of the human race."What these reflections point to, for me, is that we might better think of "redemption," "atonement," "salvation" less as something Jesus did, a "transaction" of some sort, as Jesus himself: he is salvation, at-onement.A focus on the "being" of Jesus may lead to a new appreciation of the Johannine "I am" formulations and the Pauline use of "new Adam" imagery.Thus redemption is not an extrinsic imputation laid upon us, but a new possibility opened to us: to realize with God's grace the new filial existence enabled by the crucified and risen Lord.I try to indicate this approach by saying that Christ did not show the Way, he created the Way in his own body, and now we are called to become incorporate in the body of the Savior.As the quotes I transcribed from your article stress: transformation is required. Just as Christ transformed sin and evil, we must be transformed by our encounter with the person of Christ. Baptism, of course, is the beginning of transformation; and the Eucharist nourishes our ongoing "Christification."
I suspect that discomfort must always drive the explanation for Jesus' crucifixion to a certain extent. His earliest followers had to deal with the disconcerting fact that their messiah was dead. His latter-day followers must face up to the moral problems of the violence of the act and what that says about God.One thing that can be born in mind is that, at the bottom of it all, the reason Jesus had to die on the cross was because the Roman prefect said so. A lot of people die for similar reasons: someone said they had to.
Mt 11: 28-30, is a beautiful invitation by the Son who is said, in the stunning "Johannine" verses preceding it, to know the Father and be able to reveal him to those he chooses. In 28-30 Jesus says: "Come to me, all you who labor and are burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am meek and humble of heart; and you will find rest for yourselves. For my yoke is easy and my burden light." This bit doesn't appear in Luke or Mark and is generally said to be Matthew's own.
Abe,isn't the "disconcerting fact" with which Jesus' earliest followers had to come to grips the dual one: the Messiah had been crucified and raised? Had he not been raised there would have been no redemption. As Paul insists to the Corinthians: you would still be in your sins.
I suspect that the resurrection narrative was a crucial tool in coming to grips with the crucifixion. But taking the resurrection for granted and viewing the situation from a canonical perspective, I would say, yes: the absence of the messiah without the messiah having done anything decisively messiah-ish would demand a new way of thinking about the function of the messiah.
Abe,what was "decisively messiah-ish" was that "he died for our sins." I grant that this was indeed "a new way of thinking about the function of the messiah." But that relates to what I suggested above: what he did was who he is. Irenaeus says: "he brought all newness, bringing himself."
Another reason for profound regret at the low level of knowledge and understanding of the faith.And not just among the "little ones". The Catechism is unclear. The vocabulary is highly specialized and coded, and words do not mean what they mean in everyday language. It's confusing. A little poking around the internet reveals a bewildering array of contradictory texts, many written by "the very cultured". I like your article very much, Fr K - it's beautiful -, but that's just one text from one person. I can roam the web and pick and choose what rings true to me, but how do I know that I'm not just selecting from a community of like-minded people, and that it's not a somewhat distorted view of the Catholic faith? Where is the Magisterium when we need it?
Claire --If you take everything Jesus says literally, then you see that He too contradicted Himself very clearly sometimes. So what to do? I say look more closely at how language works in all of its frustrating glory, and then see what we're left with. It's why I think that the contemporary understandings of the nature(s) of "language" is so important if we are to make more progress with both philosophy and theology. And that means studying the linguistic analysts and the great progress made by the psychologists in understanding how language works, Yes, this is something of a digression, but I think that Wittgenstein has been proven right in mny disciplines -- that the misuse (or strange us) of language is at the bottom of many of our intellectual problems including some in theology. Just consider how the uses of "atonement" has thrown so many people off.That is not to say that the apparent theological contradictions are not problematic. It *is* to say that apparently it is the will of God that understanding of His messages will not come easily to us. It seems that He *wants* us to struggle. As I see it, He wants the increase in understanding of His Revelations to be the work of many people, a communal project with give and take and revisions when necessary. Sigh.
As I see it, He wants the increase in understanding of His Revelations to be the work of many people, a communal project with give and take and revisions when necessary. Kind of like wikipedia...
Father Imbelli: ..."what was "decisively messiah-ish" was that he died for our sins."So, back to the same conundrum of dozens of posts back - did Jesus "have" to die for our sins in order to be messiah-ish? Isn't that what Gopnik asserts in rather more blunt language? Could not there have been a resurrection if Jesus had died in his bed of old age after a lifetime of teaching through both words and example? Was the torture and death on the cross NECESSARY for God to forgive human sin? It is possible to understand Jesus's understanding and acceptance of the likely consequences to him personally because of what he was saying and doing - consquences that could very well mean torture and death. But what does this have to do with the remission of human sin? As Fr. K noted in his essay, Martin Luther King also knew that his work could result in his personal suffering and possible death and he too accepted this possibility. I may be particularly dense, especially when compared to many of the regular posters on this board, but perhaps I am more representative of the vast majority in some ways - I still really do not see why the church continues to say that Jesus "died for our sins" and still do not understand exactly what it means by this. As Claire noted, the language is "coded", words are defined and interpreted in a multitude of ways, it's not really very clear to the average non-theologian, and non-theologians struggling with concepts quickly discover that different theologians seem to say very different things.
Robert, I think that in saying that, you more or less bring us back full circle to the starting point of this whole problem, which is Jesus' "dying for sins." I think that it's one thing to say that that is the function of the messiah when you have a couple of millennia of theology on the issue behind you, but what I was saying is that for Jesus' first followers to get there might have taken some painful searching.
Agree, Claire and Anne. Very confusing. E.g., take a look at the venerable Catholic Encyclopedia's explanation. (The article has an imprimatur from the great John Farley and a nihil obstat from somebody else.) Information about Satan and the mousetrap theory, etc. Stuff I never heard of. How come it wasn't in the Baltimore Catechism? Or in the high school religion texts? Or mentioned in theology, Christology, etc., in college? Very sad to be mired in "ignorance" along with poor Adam Gopnik, et so many alii.http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02055a.htm-------Joseph, I liked your article, too. It reminded me of the days when even Catholics heard the occasional fire and brimstone sermon -- not from parish priests, but from visiting mission preachers (Redemptorists, usually) or from retreat masters (Jesuits, like the poor man in your anecdote). (I never heard of people being trampled to death, but in high school I heard of a priest who so moved the boys with his retreat conferences that they cried and lined up all around the gym to go to confession.)
Anne Chapman,Thank you for your patient probing questions. I think to reiterate what has several times been suggested: we are seeking some understanding of the mystery of redemption. There are different approaches that give partial insight and that can complement one another. However, there are some that do not do justice to the Gospel. So what Komonchak's article referred to as "penal substitution" does not represent Catholic teaching.I tried to move away from this by suggesting that we not think of redemption or atonement in terms of a "transaction:" something "paid" to another, but rather to focus upon the person whose vision and action transformed evil into good. That is why I singled out Komonchak's use of the language of "transformation" in his article.Here I think there is a profound connection between Eucharist and cross: the offering by Jesus of his body. It reveals his transformative intent.I suggest that it helps to come to grips with "redemption" by always considering it in relation to Eucharist.Let me suggest one further line of reflection. You ask: "was death on the cross necessary for God to forgive sin?" Does it make sense to you to ask: was death on the cross necessary for humans to realize the true magnitude of sin and what it costs God?"Thank you again for helping us ponder the mystery.
Fr Imbelli, don't you think that the current emphasis on economics, capitalism, and the dictatorship of market forces, naturally leads contemporaries to look for explanations couched in terms of a "transaction"?
Claire,I think the notion of redemption/buying back was wide-spread in the ancient world. It is a suggestive model: liberating from slavery. But pressed unilaterally it leads to "paying ransom" to God? to Satan? (the latter then caught in the "mousetrap" sprung by Christ!).And so it needs to be complemented by other approaches and finally to the discernment of the faith community, under the guidance of those who hold teaching authority.
Ms. Chapman: You asked, "Was the torture and death on the cross NECESSARY for God to forgive human sin?"I would say, No, it wasn't necessary. As both Augustine and Aquinas both said (not to mention many others), our salvation could have been accomplished in other ways. If this is true, the question becomes, "Why, then, this way?" And one then embarks on the much more difficult task of trying to find intelligibility in what need not have happened. I sometimes think that it is much easier for people who think the only intelligibility is that of the necessary, as if what is contingent, free, can't be understood. As I mentioned in an earlier post, a linkage between the death of Christ and the forgiveness of sins was made at a very early date--it had to be very early if it was already presented as the basic Gospel to St. Paul upon his conversion. Another point: A Christian, in trying to understand the faith, has to take into account all that the New Testament offers about Christ and his work. That means not leaving out the hard parts, in our discussion, the ones that I quote in my article. It is much easier simply to ignore the difficult texts, but I think the proper task of theologians is to try to take all the data into account.Still another point: In no way did God will the malice that led to the torturous death of Christ. In the whole of the passion-story, the only thing that God directly willed is the love, fidelity, and obedience of Christ. And another: These discussions often are affected by the picture-thinking that has God up there deciding beforehand that certain things would happen or not happen. In other words, we imagine God as involved in our time-sequence and time-consciousness. But there is no before and after in God. So some people fantasize: God looked down and saw Christ suffering in our place, and decided that was enough suffering, and so he decided to forgive, something he would not have been inclined to do without that suffering. It is a terrible travesty of the Good News about the God who so loved the world that he sent his only Son...
St. Thomas had a pithy statement that may help: "Non propter hoc vult Deus hoc fieri, sed Deus vult hoc fieri propter hoc." Imagine two sequential events A and B. Then the dictum means: "It is not because A happened that God willed that B happen, but God wills that B happen because A happened." In the first case, Event A would be the cause of God's willing B, something that Aquinas excluded on the grounds of God's utter transcendence of his creation--that is, that nothing created could be a cause of anything in God. The second case is a terse statement of Aquinas's basic belief that there are secondary causes, all of which are utterly dependent on God's primary causality. Thus, in the second case, A would be the genuine cause of B, and this by God's will. Applied to our discussion, this would mean that it was not because Adam sinned that God willed that the Word became flesh, but God willed that the Word become flesh because Adam sinned. Similarly, Christ's tortured death is not the cause of any change in God. "God so loved the world..."
...was death on the cross necessary for God to forgive sin?Fr. Imbelli --ISTM that our talk of "necessity" might be clarified somewhat by considering a distinction between two kinds of necessity which the Scholastics made. There are necessities due to a thing's nature, and these cannot be otherwise, e.g. the number 3 is necessarily, by its nature larger than 2 and smaller than 4. This is per se necessity, or "antecedent" necessity". Such necessities can be described as absolute or intrinsic necessities. On the other hand, there are "consequent necessities", necessities which follow from some contingent reality or state of affairs, e.g., IF you want to go to the opera, it is necessary that you buy a ticket; IF your life is to continue , it is necessary that the doctor remove remove you gangrenous leg. The word "IF" in those examples reflect a certain contingency, a non-necessity.So what does it mean to say that the cross was "necessary for God to forgive sin"? Are we asking: was it necessary because of what *He* is that He saved us? That is, was it necessary because His very nature required Him to save us? Or did He have some choice about saving us? I was taught that His nature did not require it, but His nature necessarily gave Him the option, the choice whether to save us or not, and He chose to save us. So it was not necessary due to His nature. It was not an a priori necessity as far as what He is.On the other hand, can we say that considering what *we* are (our own nature) that the cross "was necessary" for salvation? I'd say Yes, that the cross was (somehow) necessary for the simple reason that we cannot save ourselves. (This assumes that the cross is salvific, though it dons not explain "how* it saves. That's another problem.) In other words, IF we are to be saved (a contingent event) that it is necessary that God choose to save us In other words, if we consider only what God is, then the redemption was not necessary. But i we consider what *we* are (incapable of saving ourselves) then, yes, the cross was necessary . In other words, the necessity is on our side, not God's, and it is a necessity which happens only after God has chosen to save us. It's an instance of what the scholastics called "consequent necessity" -- because He made a choice, consequently something necessarily happened, we were saved.
It was not because Adam sinned that God willed that the Word became flesh, but God willed that the Word become flesh because Adam sinned. Do you mean that the following does not hold: that Adam sinned; that the resulting situation was not good, and that God, seeing that, decided to fix it by the Word becoming flesh.Do you mean that the following holds instead: that God decided that, should Adam ever sin, then the Word would become flesh - one event following the other as surely as a law of physics. Then Adam sinned. Then the rule was applied and the Word became flesh.I see that it's different, but I'm not sure it helps with anything.
Claire --It seems to me that the "necessity" of Christ's death does not involve any real metaphysical problem. But there is a metaphysical problem involved: the question whether it is *possible* that one innocent person's death can compensate for the sins of others. One might even ask if one can meaningfully frame such a question, because the question seems to assume that one person can assume the moral responsibilities of another. (Yes, questions often do make statements even as they ask questions, for instance, the classic, "Have you stopped beating your wife?" When we confuse a question about a necessity with a question about a possibility we invite confusion.
Perhaps the Father sent his Son into the world simply because he loved the men and women (and everything else) that he had made and wished by an extraordianry demonstration of that love to win us back after we had turned from him. But we, all on our own and because we are a wayward and bloody-minded species, spurned his love and killed his Son, an act that might move even a loving God to high displeasure and thoughts of retribution. But then the Son pleaded with him, for he was now one of us, "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do." And the Father, who could refuse nothing that the Son asked, forgave us this greatest sin, and with it all of our countless others. And blameless Father and faithful Son still love us, such as we are.
Ann writes: " In other words, the necessity is on our side, not Gods;" and I concur. That is part of what I was trying to indicate but suggesting we not think of redemption in "transactional" terms: making some sort of "payment" to God.John Prior writes: "But we, all on our own and because we are a wayward and bloody-minded species, spurned his love and killed his Son . . . And blameless Father and faithful Son still love us, such as we are." The Cross is the measure of the extent and cost of that love; and the Eucharist its sacramental continuation: both of them "necessary" to realize the human transformation required.To a fellow monk, objecting to the argument of his "Cur Deus Homo," Anselm wrote: "nondum cognovisti quanti ponderis sit peccatum" "you have not yet fathomed how terrible sin is."
Firstly thanks to everyone for the great discussion; one of the best I've ever read on CW!I strongly agree with Father K that the torture and death of Christ on a cross was certainly not "necessary" to redeem our sins. That said, Jesus did come to redeem us, however it was His choice in not only how He came, but how He redeemed. Perhaps it's easier to understand in the terms of approachability. God being God, Jesus could have easily come as King, pricked his finger, and voilia, we would have been redeemed. It was because He loved us so much, He not only wanted to show us "how much", but also, be approachable. After all, isn't it much easier to love a baby in a manger than a powerful king? Despite the humility it took for God, our Creator to introduce Himself to us as a baby in a manger, does it not also makes sense that the depth of the sufferings of His passion was also Jesus showing us just how MUCH He loved us; how MUCH He was willing to suffer for us?Something not much practiced or even know among many Catholics today, is that in His suffering, Jesus gave redemptaive value and meaning to suffering, thus, the Catholic Theology of "Redemptive Suffering." Suffering is indeed a great mystery, but via Christ (and Catholic Theology), we do get enough light shed on it to understand that all suffering united to Christ is also redemptive. Christ loved us so much that He invited us also, by uniting our sufferings with His, to participate in the redemption of sin. (see JPII's Apostolic Letter Salvifici Doloris or something as simple as Scott Hahn's Lighthouse CD on redemptive suffering often found in the back of most Catholic Churches). The Catholic Answer to "Why does God allow suffering" is simply "For a greater good." Look no further than the Crucifix; Deicide to redemption. If man can kill God the Creator and be redeemed, how could we not believe that our own suffering united to Christ doesn't have meaning? When in doubt, Romans 8:28: For all who love God, EVERYTHING works for the greater good.As for more intelligent life in the universe, I would suggest that question is probably outside of our own human intelligence, as some things are simply too big for the limit of the human mind. Even Aquinas, before his death, had a vision of Christ on the Cross, subsequently, never wrote another word expect to say all that he had written was "straw in comparison."If there is any take home msg. of all that has been discussed on this thread, Pope Benedict said it best last week (Bender noted it above): "Sin ruins everything."Consequently, sin needs to be redeemed on an ongoing basis, vis the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and our own "Redemptive Suffering", united to Christ and The Mass. The part that few in our almost totally secular culture get is that sin is also the cause of evil. JPII wrote in one of his last books, Mystery and Identity, that "Suffering Consumes Evil."The good news is that we can all do something about that by living the comandments and "offering up" , both big and small, all of what we "suffer", all made possible by the suffering of Jesus Christ.
Wanted to also share this from the British Poet and Mystic, Caryll Houshlander:Because Christ has changed death to life, and suffering to redemption, the suffering of those who love him will be a communion between them. All that hidden daily suffering that seems insignificant will be redeeming the world, it will be healing the wounds of the world. The acceptance of pain, of old age, of the fear of death, and of death will be our gift of Christ's love to one another; our gift of Christ's life to one another.
To all - I realize that my questions are very simplistic and I wish to thank you again for your patience. As an undergrad, I took required theology and philosophy courses - 12 hours of each. I had close to zero interest in any of them and admit to simply learning enough (without actually understanding it) to feed it back to the professors in a way that would earn an "A" on my exams. Education, like so many other things, can be wasted on the young. Ann Olivier, you are approaching defining the real problem for many: "On the other hand, can we say that considering what *we* are (our own nature) that the cross was necessary for salvation? Id say Yes, that the cross was (somehow) necessary for the simple reason that we cannot save ourselves. (THIS ASSUMES THAT THE CROSS IS SALVIFIC, THOUGH IT DOES NOT EXPLAIN HOW* IT SAVES. Thats another problem"Yes - a BIG problem. Why is the cross "salvific"? "How" does it "save"? In fact, what does it mean that humanity is "saved'? Saved from what? From a judgmental God (Gopnik)? Not from sinning that did not change because Jesus died a horrific death on the cross. Is it not likely that some people, learning of Jesus's teachings and trying to live "the way" taught by Jesus, became more aware of their own sinfulness and change(d) how they live at least a bit? Because of what Jesus TAUGHT not because he died in a particularly nasty fashion? Many of his contemporary followers began to change (be transformed) before Jesuss death. Their understanding of the nature of God and the "law" also changed because of what Jesus taught BEFORE he died. Through his death, Jesus taught that trying to live according to God's will COULD lead to nasty consequences. Clearly his acceptance of these consequences for himself was a powerful "teaching" moment. But is that what "saved" humanity from punishment for sins? Or "redeemed" us? Did God not "forgive" humanity its sins before Jesus' death? Would God have refused to forgive humanity's sins without Jesus's death? If that is true, then we're right back to Gopnik's understanding of Catholic teaching, shared by millions of Catholics and other christians.God created humanity and human nature and is omniscient which means that God knew before he created human beings that they would sin. But then there is the problem of linear time - there is no linear time in God's "world". So what does it mean to say that God knew something before something else? (I wont get into this now, but I admit to also not understanding why God perfection and completeness personified and so no need for any other beings created thinking human beings in the first place, especially knowing that their sinful natures would simply create great suffering and havoc on the earth.)I feel badly about hogging this thread with my simplistic questions. But I have never found anyone in the church who has been willing to discuss them either privately or in standard adult education at the parish level. Few parish priests seem to have given much thought to these questions, and when confronted with them, tend to dismiss the person asking them. It is stunning to find knowledgeable people online who are willing to engage with these questions. Unfortunately, taking theology courses at nearby universities is not financially feasible. After this post, I will cease and desist. I will follow up on some of the reading suggestions, but fear that they might be a bit too advanced for someone like me, without much background in theology.
Anne, your questions are not at all simplistic. I don't understand much about sin and expiation myself, but there is one sentence you wrote that struck me the wrong way. I also lack background, but that has never stopped me from speaking up, so:Through his death, Jesus taught that trying to live according to Gods will COULD lead to nasty consequences.I have never thought of that as a primary teaching. I think that teaching is secondary. What is primary?Jesus identified with us to the point where he stuck to his human condition even on the cross, instead of saving himself by some supernatural act. Through his death, he taught us that he is with us, one of us, "like us in all things but sin", committed to being fully human even when we are murderers. In no other religion is God so intimate with humans. His being so close to us opens up the possibility of us not just following his advice and his general teachings, but coming close to him, being like him, being him. He is "the way" not just by his speeches but by his own self. At least that's my primary understanding of the crucifixion.
Claire: You asked, re the quote from Aquinas I have above:"Do you mean that the following does not hold: that Adam sinned; that the resulting situation was not good, and that God, seeing that, decided to fix it by the Word becoming flesh."Yes, that does not hold. It has God watching things, seeing a development he doesn't like, and acting to fix it. It inserts God into a temporal sequence and gives him second thoughts, caused by a creature's actions."Do you mean that the following holds instead: that God decided that, should Adam ever sin, then the Word would become flesh one event following the other as surely as a law of physics. Then Adam sinned. Then the rule was applied and the Word became flesh."This, too, does not hold. It sets up a conditional possibility for which an iron-clad "law" is set out in advance, and when the possibility is verified, the law operates as surely as a law of physics. But God always acts with supreme freedom, with supreme righteousness, in accord with his supreme wisdom. He created and sustains a universe in which creaturely freedom makes sin possible, in which people sin, in which the subsequent disorder is repaired by the loving fidelity and obedience of Christ. So Christ suffered because of sin and for the sake of sinners, but God does not love and forgive us because Christ suffered.I invoked the Thomist adage against the common view that the pains Christ endured caused God to become benevolent toward sinful humanity, quieted God's anger, etc., as so many theories of the atonement seem to hold. Against this there are such powerful NT statements as 1 Jn 4:10, 19: "God loved us first and sent his Son as a propitiation for our sins"; 2 Cor 5:19: "God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself, not holding their sins against them"; Eph 2:4-5: "God, who is rich in mercy, on account of the exceeding love by which he loved us, even when we were dead in our sings, brought us to life in Christ"; Rom 5:8: "God commends his love for us in this: that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us". Here are two paragraphs from Augustine:
Now there are people who say, "Was there no other way available to God of setting men free from the unhappiness of this mortality, that he should want his only begotten Son, God co-eternal with himself, to become man by putting on a human soul and flesh, and, having become mortal, to suffer death?" And it is not enough to rebut them by maintaining that this way God chose of setting us free through "the mediator between God and men the man Christ Jesus" (1 Tim 2:5) is good and befitting the divine dignity; we must also show, not indeed that no other possible way was available to God, since all things are equally within his power, but that there neither was nor should have been a more suitable way of curing our unhappy state. Nothing was more needed for raising our hopes and delivering the minds of mortals, disheartened by the very condition of mortality, from despairing of immortality, than a demonstration of how much value God put on us and how much he loved us. And what could be clearer and more wonderful evidence of this than that the Son of God, unchangeably good, remaining in himself what he was and receiving from us what he was not, electing to enter into partnership with our nature without detriment to his own, should first of all endure our ills without any ill deserts of his own, and then once we had been brought in this way to believe how much God loved us and to hope at last for what we had despaired of, should confer his gifts on us with a quite uncalled-for generosity, without any good deserts of ours, indeed with our ill deserts our only preparation? (De Trintiate, Bk. 13, ch. 4, 14)But what is this "justified in his blood" (Room 5:9)? What, I want to know, is the potency of this blood, that believers should be justified in it? Is it really the case that when God the Father was angry with us he saw the death of his Son on our behalf, and was reconciled to us? Does this mean that his Son was already so reconciled to us that he was even prepared to die for us, while the Father was still so angry with us that unless the Son died for us he would not be reconciled to us? And what about something the same teacher of the Gentiles [St. Paul] says elsewhere: "What are we to say to all this? If God is for us, who is against us? He who did not spare his own Son but handed him over for us all, how has he not also made us a gift of all things with him" (Rom 8:13)? Would the Father have not spared his own Son but handed him over for us, if he had not already been reconciled? If fact it seems, doesn't it, as if this text contradicts the former one? There the Son dies for us, and the Father is reconciled to us through his death. But if it comes to that, I observe that the Father loved us not merely before the Son died for us, but before he founded the world, as the Apostle bears witness: "As he chose us in him before the foundation of the world" (Eph 1:4). Nor does the Father's not sparing him mean that the Son was handed over for us against his will, because of Him too it is said, "Who loved me and handed himself over for me (Gal 2:20). Thus the Father and the Son and the Spirit of them both work all things together and equally and in concord. Yet the fact remains that we have been justified in the blood of Christ and reconciled to God through the death of his Son, and how that was done I shall explain here too as best I can and as fully as seems necessary. (De Trinitate, Bk 13, ch. 4, 15)
Augustine then goes on to offer his own explanation.
I'm still having trouble with your 8:22pm comment. One more attempt, then I'll give up and go enjoy the snow.You wrote: " it was not because Adam sinned that God willed that the Word became flesh, but God willed that the Word become flesh because Adam sinned. "Do you mean that the Word becoming flesh is not a consequence of Adam's sin, but that both things happened - Adam sinning, and the Word becoming flesh - and that it is a fitting way to sustain the universe because the Word becoming flesh repairs Adam's sin? That's there is no causality from one to the other, but that they fit together nicely? Like a dovetail joint: you cannot say that one side "causes" the other side to be shaped a certain way, but they fit together. Given the shape of one side, it is necessary that the other side be given the complementary shape.
Yes, that does not hold. It has God watching things, seeing a development he doesnt like, and acting to fix it. It inserts God into a temporal sequence and gives him second thoughts, caused by a creatures actions.Have to disagree, Joseph. God does watch things and he does act to fix the ones he doesn't like. He sewed garments of skin for Eve and Adam. (And presumably killed and skinned animals and tanned their hides.) He watches the sparrows fall and makes the free throws swish in.To accuse Gopnik and "many Catholics" of ignorance about "the core Catholic belief" is harsh, imho. The Jesuit who caused the stampede was ignorant?And Cardinal Farley, who studied "at the Pontifical North American College in Rome" and "was present in Rome during the whole period of the First Vatican Council," and who set his imprimatur to an article about the mousetrap theory, was ignorant? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Murphy_Farleyif this is a "core Catholic belief," it's strange how few understand it and how poorly and inconsistently it's taught. (But for those of us who don't understand it, at least there's the consolation that the next generation will discard/forget the current theories as easily as the old ones have been discarded/forgotten.)
Here is a link to the section in which St. Thomas Aquinas addressed the question whether it was necessary for Christ to suffer (STheol III, q. 46): http://www.newadvent.org/summa/4046.htmI draw attention to this comment:
But if God had willed to free man from sin without any satisfaction, He would not have acted against justice. For a judge, while preserving justice, cannot pardon fault without penalty, if he must visit fault committed against another--for instance, against another man, or against the State, or any Prince in higher authority. But God has no one higher than Himself, for He is the sovereign and common good of the whole universe. Consequently, if He forgive sin, which has the formality of fault in that it is committed against Himself, He wrongs no one: just as anyone else, overlooking a personal trespass, without satisfaction, acts mercifully and not unjustly. And so David exclaimed when he sought mercy: "To Thee only have I sinned" (Psalm 50:6), as if to say: "Thou canst pardon me without injustice."
I'd also recommend St. Thomas's consideration of the causality of Christ's resurrection in STheol III, q. 56, art. 1-2, which you can find here: http://www.newadvent.org/summa/4056.htmAll too often, discussions of Christ's redemptive work focus exclusively on his passion and death, to the neglect of his resurrection, which quite falsifies the perspectives of the NT authors.
" But then there is the problem of linear time there is no linear time in Gods world. So what does it mean to say that God knew something before something else?"Anne C. --All human descriptions of God (according to the Scholastics anyway) are at best inadequate to what He is, and our meanings of words apply only analogously to Him. Because of these differences, the Scholastics distinguished many meanings of a given word, e.g., "time".So what does it mean to say that God knew one thing at a time before he knew another thing? Well, the things are known by Him as occuring before and after each other, BUT God knows the before and after in one instant. An analogy would be seeing the beginning and end of a road from some high mountain -- the beginning and end are different points, but they can be seen from the high perspective at the same time. Though this analogy is not a perfect description of God's perfect "instant", it gives us some idea of what God's experience of time is like. They distinguished three different kinds of "time" or duration. There is 1) the linear time of this physical world, 2) the time of the spiritual world (they called it "aeveternity" in which the ordingary sequence of a, then b, then c. . . doesn't hold), and 3) the duration of God which, in Boethius' classic definition, is "the simultaneously whole and perfect possession of interminable life." This can be described as the containment of all instants in one perfect, all-inclusive "instant". Of course, the meaning of "instant" then becomes an analogous meaning relative to the "instants" of our physical time.
Gerelyn: Yes, of course, and God also has a right hand (at which Christ sits) and bowels of mercy, too.Claire: There is causality involved, but not one that goes from Event A to God to Event B, as if Event A "causes" God to send his Son for our salvation. The causality instead is horizontal: Event B occurs because Event A occurred. So, as I've seen it said: Christ suffered on account of sins (because of sins) and on behalf of sinners. And, again, the linkage between the two is not to be imagined as if so necessary that it obliges God, but rather that there are manifold reasons to help us understand why it was fitting that God save us through the Incarnation and the Death and Resurrection of Christ. To say that they "fit together" "like a dovetail joint," is perhaps not a bad way for how Augustine and Aquinas dealt with the issue, that is, not in terms of necessitating reasons but for reasons of fittingness (convenientia.
Anne -Please do keep asking your questions. I too am learning a lot from this discussion. As I see it, many Catholic teachers, including the hierarchy, don't seem to realize just how seriously many, many lay people take these theological difficulties. Some people even anguish over them. And I'm not just talking about the brainy ones. I used to teach philosophy, and I know from experience that sometimes the most profound questions and answers come from kids you might least expect them from. Still waters run deep, and often they run quietly too.So thanks again to Frs. Komonchak and Imbelli. Would that more teachers had their patience. Also, I noticed in one of the Augustine paragraphs JAK quotes above that St. A. comments that there seems to be a contradiction involved in his topic -- not a "tension" but a contradiction. No doubt Augustine's willingness to confront contradictions was one reason he made such theological progress. The current Vatican needs to learn to do that-- admit the problems!!
Ann: The engine of theological progress in the Middle Ages was the technique of the quaestio, a method by which apparent contradictions in the Scriptures or the Fathers were addressed head on. There was Abelard's famous Sic et non (Yes and No) and the pedagogical use of it in a work like Aquinas's Summa theologica. But you really see it operating in the works like Thomas's De veritate and De potentia where he will sometimes give ten or twenty arguments on the one side, Videtur quod non (It seems not), and then as many on the other hand (Sed contra), and then offer his own view, but never finishing until he has responded to the arguments with which his own position disagreed. The questions were genuine ones--this wasn't a pro forma exercise--and they arose precisely out of the fact that the scriptural and patristic authorities seemed to be saying contradictory things. I think the technique could still be very useful--I used to have beginning graduate students construct a quaestio on some contemporary issue they were interested in, and they, and I, found it very useful. One could wish that it were more in use among theologians today, and even on blogs....
"One could wish that it were more in use among theologians today, and even on blogs."Do you mean: giving five reasons why the bishops are wary of the Administration's "accommodation,"before pronouncing the "sed contra?"
Ok. It's not crystal clear, but ok.Yes, Frs I and K are patient and helpful. Thank you. It's hard to deny that, on this kind of questions, they know best better.Whenever I see Ann and Fr K agreeing on something, it makes me happy.
A few years ago, I read this article by Francesca Murphy: Brer Rabbit Christology, New Blackfriars, April 2002, Vol 83, 188-198. (It doesn't seem to be on-line. If I can ever find my copy of it, I'll try to make it available.) But it made me think that when the Fathers make use of "mousetrap" and "fish-hook" and such-like images in talking about the atonement, they should be taken to be aware of the limited nature of their images, and even of their comic use. I had never thought of that before.
Patricia: The Catholic Answer to Why does God allow suffering is simply For a greater good. - not so simple. Recall the Newtown massacre last December. Gerelyn: on the thread about circumcision, you wrote: "Claire, Im convinced youre convinced. If you werent, you wouldnt have bothered telling me you werent." In other words you think that what I say is not what I mean. Would you consider changing your mind on that? Otherwise there is no point in my engaging you on this medium. I would like it if you retracted that sentence. Sometimes I want to react to some of your comments, but then I remember what you wrote, and I refrain. It would be good to exchange opinions sometimes, but you have to be willing to believe that what I write is what I think.
About the Author
Rev. Joseph A. Komonchak, professor emeritus of the School of Theology and Religious Studies at the Catholic University of America, is a retired priest of the Archdiocese of New York.


text:
Mostly Cloudy
Wind: 6 mph
Marie Jeanne Mundie (McVicker) was born in Chelsea, Massachusetts, on September 1, 1953. She passed away peacefully on August 21, 2012, at her home in North Palm Beach after a two-year battle with brain cancer.
Jeanne moved to Singer Island from Warren, Vermont, in 1984, where she had lived for a number of years after leaving her parent's home in Wilmington, MA, in 1974. She was educated at Wilmington public schools, attended high school at Nazareth Academy in Wakefield, MA, and attained a diploma at the Katherine Gibbs School in Boston.
Jeanne moved to Waitsfield, VT, and managed a busy real estate office for a local developer named Carl Creedon. When Mr. Creedon came to North Palm Beach to build a condominium development called Governor's Point, he found he couldn't get along without her and moved her to the area. Jeanne met the love of her live on the project, a Chicago transplant named Greg Mundie, and fell in love with both Greg and south Florida.
Jeanne married Greg at Our Lady of the Snows Church in Waitsfield, VT, on June 26, 1986, moved to North Palm Beach, raised two beautiful sons, Colin, 23, and Evan, 21, and devoted herself to her family and local causes such as sea turtles, clean beaches and the environment.
She loved music, was an avid reader, crossword aficionado, moviegoer, gardener, beach comber and had a great interest in interior design. She worked for local builders the DiVosta family for many years while Greg became a science teacher and track coach at Spanish Rivers High School in Boca Raton. Both her sons graduated from Jupiter High School.
Jeanne is survived by her immediate family: husband Greg and sons Colin and Evan; her parents Leo and Ernestine McVicker of Juno Beach and Singer Island, Florida; her sister Katherine Hoffmann and daughters Rachel and Julia; her brother Robert McVicker, his wife Kathleen and children Zachary and Marisa. Her loving and supportive in-laws include Elizabeth C. Mundie, Donna Mundie, Cathy Meyer, Ben Mundie, Pattie Richardson, Jennie Rasmussen and Ian Mundie.
In lieu of flowers, the families would appreciate any gifts to be made go to those in need through the church of your choice or St. Paul of the Cross, 10970 Jack Nicklaus Drive, North Palm Beach, FL 33408.

subset: commoncrawl


text:
The University of Tennessee at Chattanooga Mocs Club is set to host the 14th Annual Porky's Open Golf Tournament presented by BlueCross BlueShield of Tennessee on Tuesday, May 7, at Council Fire Golf Club in Chattanooga, Tenn.
The Porky's Open Golf Tournament benefits student-athlete scholarships at UTC. Registration begins at 10:30 a.m. (E.D.T.) and four person teams, as well as individual golfers, are welcome to participate. The practice range also opens at 10:30 a.m. with lunch, provided by Porker's BBQ, served at 11:30 a.m. Tournament play begins with a shotgun start at 12:30 p.m.
The cost for the event is $250 per player with full information available on the attached brochure. Space is limited so be sure to register today.
For more information on the Porky's Open Golf Tournament presented by BlueCross and BlueShield of Tennessee, contact Ryan Lowe at (423) 425-5866 or email@example.com.
Message from Interim Director of Athletics Laura Herron
The Porky's Open is the only privately-supported golf tournament which dedicates 100% of its proceeds towards providing scholarships to UTC student-athletes. This event is the largest annual fundraiser for the UTC Athletics Department!
Through the combined efforts of many of our friends, the Porky's Open has proven to be one of the premier golf outings in the Chattanooga area. Over the past 13 years, more than $1,000,000 has been raised in support of Chattanooga Athletics.
I invite you to join us for the 14th Annual Porky's Open as a player, a sponsor, or a volunteer. Your participation provides our student-athletes with the resources they need to be successful in the classroom, in competition, and in life.
— Go Mocs!
Laura Herron.
Special Thanks to the 2012 Corporate Sponsors
2013 corporate sponsorships opportunities are still available. For more information contact Ryan Lowe at (423) 425-5866 or email@example.com.
Chancellor's Level
BlueCross BlueShield of Tennessee
Athletics Director Level
East Brainerd Lumber
Coaches Level
Rock-Tenn Company
Gold Level
Capital Toyota Inc.
Horizon Wine and Spirits
Lexus of Chattanooga
Walker Interiors
Blue Level
Herb Adcox
Budweiser of Chattanooga
Carter Distributing
Chattanooga Coca-Cola Bottling Company
ESPN Radio 105.1
Foster Grant Sunglasses
Hamico, Inc.
Incor Design & Promotions, LLC
John Foy
Jake Marshall, LLC
Miller & Martin PLLC
Miller Industries
W.A. Bryan Patten
Porkers BBQ
Rone Regency Jewelers
Silver Level
Brock Insurance
DBS Corporation
Scott Probasco
Southeast Bank & Trust
The Financial Mart, LLC — Bob Roseberry
Play Then Stay - 19th Hole Reception
Following the round of golf, you and your guests are invited to attend the Mocs Scholarship Reception! The reception will include an open bar, food provided by Porkers BBQ, and an auction.
Join UTC Alumni, Friends of the Program, Parents, Fans, Coaches and Student-Athletes while making final bids on the silent auction items. Items included in the auction will consist of one-of-a-kind UTC Athletic experiences, UTC Athletic equipment, and more.
As usual, 100% of the proceeds go to support Student-Athlete Scholarships at UTC. Be a part of the Mocs Scholarship Silent Auction and Reception! The 2013 Mocs Scholarship Auction will be a giant success because of the generosity of Mocs Club Members, UTC Alumni, Friends of the Program, and the greater community.
If you are able to donate goods, services, or memorabilia, or have connections in the travel, hotel, or restaurant industry, we can use your help. We will provide the necessary tax documentation and in-kind donation credit.
To Donate Auction Items contact Ryan Lowe at (423) 425-5866 or firstname.lastname@example.com.
UTC Mocs Club Mission
We guide, encourage and support our Student-Athletes in their quest for comprehensive excellence - academically, athletically, and socially. Above all else, we prepare our Students for productive and meaningful lives.
By supporting the Mocs Club you assist over 300 UTC student-athletes in their quest for comprehensive excellence in academics and athletics while continuing to build upon the solid foundation of UTC Athletics.
Championships begin with scholarships. Scholarships begin with you. Scholarships are the lifeblood of any successful NCAA Division I athletics program and your support of the Porky's Open is a commitment to UTC student-athletes.


text:
Science Matters
EPA Research in the News
EPA Increasing the Efficiency of Chemical Toxicity Tests
The Scientist interviewed embryonic stem cell test experts, including EPA researcher Sidney Hunter who talks about EPA's ToxCast project.
BPA Linked to Thyroid Hormones in Pregnant Women and Newborn Boys
The EPA/NIEHS funded UC Berkeley Center for Children's Environmental Health published a study that links Bisphenol A (BPA) to thyroid function in pregnant women and newborn boys.
Vanderbilt Research Team Uses Spinach to Harness Solar Energy
EPA's People, Prosperity, and the Planet (P3) program will help fund researchers from Vanderbilt University develop a prototype that uses spinach to harness solar energy.


text:
BAKER — After Brian Wagner stepped down as Baker School's girls basketball coach earlier this year, principal Tom Shipp and athletic director Matt Brunson didn't have to go far to find a new coach.
The coach, in fact, was already in the building.
James Kerrell was tapped to replace Wagner last month and has already started working with his new team.
Dream come true
Kerrell — who brings a wealth of coaching experience in multiple sports — has assisted with the Gator volleyball team, and coached the boys soccer team and the middle school golf team since he arrived at Baker from Davidson Middle School two years ago.
While at Davidson, he coached both the boys and girls basketball teams.
Getting his first high school basketball job is a dream come true for Kerrell.
"It's very satisfying," he said. "I've been striving for a while to make the move into high school full time. It's been a goal of mine since I was in junior high school, probably, to be a high school basketball coach."
In-house coach
Shipp credited Kerrell with his work since arriving at Baker School.
"He's been real involved with our sports program," Shipp said. "He's done anything we asked him to do. He's been very interested in the basketball program since the very beginning.
"One of his primary things was he wanted to get involved in the basketball program. He's got a background himself in basketball, and it's just a sport he's always been involved with and very interested in."
Having an in-house coach made the decision to name Kerrell the girls coach easy, Brunson said.
"I think he's done a good job with our girls programs, helping with volleyball, and he's also had great success," Brunson said. "Coach Wagner has done a great job with our girls basketball program. At this time, he's ready to let that go, so the next coach in line would be coach Kerrell.
"Any time you have a position open, you look within your staff first for the most qualified person, and I think he fits that role."
Tough defense
Kerrell described himself as a defense-first coach.
"I stress defense a lot," he said. "I'll probably stress defense more than anything.
"If you play tough defense, you get easy turnovers. If you get turnovers, you get easy buckets — and that translates into wins."
While he prefers an up-tempo style of play on offense, he'll match the style of play to his team's athletes.
"I'm one of those coaches that is going to look ... at what athletes I have and adjust accordingly," he said. "I feel like I bring a pretty good amount of basketball knowledge. I've either played or coached for 20-plus years.
"I feel like I bring a fresh set of eyes on things and, hopefully, a little excitement and a little motivation for more kids to get out and enjoy the game I love."
Randy Dickson is the Crestview News Bulletin's sports editor. Email him at email@example.com, tweet him @BigRandle, or call 682-6524.


text:
Well, it's finally happened. "Everyone" is now talking about that $1 trillion platinum coin idea. As The Atlantic Wire puts it:
According to Business Insider's Joe Weisenthal, this conspiracy theory started on Cullen Roche's Pragmatic Capitalist. Weisenthal's been one of its most vocal supporters though. It's picked up steam over the last few days thanks to a column from The New York Times' Paul Krugman, a backing from Rep. Jerry Nadler, an endorsement from Bloomberg's Josh Barro, and this evening it was trending thanks to a White House petition and the official coining of its very own hashtag. (Pun fully intended.)
Joe's breakdown of the idea goes like this:
Treasury can't just create money out of thin air to pay its bills, there is a technicality in the law that says the Treasury has special discretion to create platinum coins of any denomination, and the thinking is that Tim Geithner could make the coin and walk it over to the Federal Reserve and deposit it in the Treasury's bank account.
Mint the coin, and the debt ceiling controversy is gone. Even more importantly — think about it — mint the coin (one trillion, two trillion, a trillion trillion, whatever) and suddenly America's current debts look a lot different. Sure, it's crazy, but who — and what — isn't these days? Think of the alternatives. Look upon Congress and despair!
Well, there's just one problem. John Carney invokes (more despair) the Constitution:
There's no intelligible principle here at all. Nothing to guide the Secretary of the Treasury about how to exercise this authority, no goal at which his discretionary decisions are aimed. This is just too broad to fit into our constitutional framework.
That's commonsensical enough. But something tells me that, nowadays, Constitutional interpretation is much less of a common-sense slam dunk for the average American than the simple conceptual problems stuffed into that trillion-dollar coin. As I've said before, the buck does not stop with the full faith and credit of the United States Government. It stops with the full faith and credit of the American people.
And just as Paul Krugman's global thermonuclear stimulus plan leaves economic theory intact while promising to shatter the social reality of the American people, who are extremely unlikely to accept such a level of stimulus without losing confidence in the grand financial confidence game, a trillion-dollar (or larger) coin works a kind of juju magic that — I bet — would simply destroy too many Americans' ability to take their government, or their financial system, seriously.
Once you breach that wall, God help you, and the devil take the hindmost.
In order to know whether my intuition is right, here, we've got to poll the coin. Hop to, pollsters. If the American people turn out to be okay with the idea, then the confidence game (in America at least) really is a self-contained system, and the implications of that are massive.
Systems and complexity theorists would then have to consider how big a destabilizing effect could be had by a small percentage of radical nonbelievers in the integrity of a Coin-based political economy. In all likelihood, that effect would be weaker than the effect today's current nonbelievers in the political economy's integrity could have if we continue with today's policies and political struggles.


text:
L. Sartory
CacheCleaner NG
Minimalistic cleaner for *ROOTED* devices, now with a scheduler! CacheCleaner allows you to remove all the cache files from the internal memory and (optionally) from the SD card. It runs either on-demand, or at scheduled times. The list of cleaned applications can be selected, for example to...
CacheCleaner Legacy
CacheCleaner allows you to remove all cache files with a single click. Because internal memory is precious, and cache isn't. It requires both root permissions and BusyBox (which can be installed from the Android Market) to function. This is the original! If you're looking for a...


text:
Michael Allen Phipps passed from this life on Oct. 30, 2012, to be forever free from the brain tumor that he so courageously fought for two years. He was 52.
He was born in Jefferson to David Lester Phipps Sr. and Ruth Anne Miller Phipps.
After graduating from Ashe Central High School in 1978, Mike attended North Carolina State University and earned his degree in Industrial Engineering. He began his career in 1983, as an engineer with the U.S. Army at Ft. Bragg, later transferring to the Anniston Army Depot in Alabama.
In 1986, he began a 24 year career with NASA in Huntsville, Ala., where he worked proudly in support of the Space Shuttle Program and later on ARES-I. During his years there, Mike achieved his Professional Engineer certification and was awarded the cherished Silver Snoopy Award given by the astronauts. In 2010, he decided to change career paths and went to work for the Missile Defense Agency.
Mike's greatest delight was his family. He was married for 21 years to the former Teri Michelle Loyd who he met at N.C. State. They had two children, Zachary Allen and Andrew Gray. Sadly, Andrew died at the age of three from a congenital birth defect which left Mike's heart forever broken.
Zachary was his greatest joy. Mike served as a volunteer coach for numerous basketball and baseball teams even winning two county championships as head coach of Zachary's middle school baseball team. He was proud of the wonderful young man that Zachary had become and rejoiced when Zachary was recently admitted to the nursing program at Auburn University. Mike's pride as a father was always evident.
Mike was also an active member of Trinity Baptist Church in Madison. He worked many years with the youth group and served as a Deacon. It was his hope that he could somehow make a difference for the youth.
He was preceded in death by his son, Andrew Gray Phipps; his father, David L. Phipps Sr.; his father-in-law, Donald G. Loyd; and his younger brother, Mark.
Mike is survived by his mother, Ruth Anne Phipps of Crumpler; three brothers, David L. Phipps Sr. (Sarah Ruth) of Holly Springs, Joseph W. Phipps (Kate) of Jefferson, and Larry Phipps of Jefferson; mother-in-law, Edna G. Loyd of Gibsonville; sister-in-law, Tina L. Wiggins (Rick) of Gibsonville; and many nieces, nephews, as well as a large extended family.
A heart-felt thanks to Dr. Brian Mathews, Dr. Hoyt Childs, Claudia Agnew, and the many caring individuals at Clearview Cancer Institute. Thanks to all the management and coworkers at Missile Defense Agency for supporting Mike through his illness and the Army Aviation Safety Office for their support of Teri. To Navar Johnson, thank you for being the angel caretaker for Mike.
The funeral service was held at 1 p.m. Monday, Nov. 5, 2012, at Trinity Baptist Church, 1088 Hughes Road in Madison. Burial followed at Huntsville Memory Gardens.
In lieu of flowers, a memorial scholarship fund has been initiated at Redstone Federal Credit Union to fund a scholarship for a deserving student to further their education. Donations may be made to the Mike Phipps Memorial Scholarship, Redstone Federal Credit Union, 220 Wynn Drive, Huntsville, AL 35893 and note for the Mike Phipps Memorial Scholarship Fund, Account 51005512653.


text:
Habana probably will end up getting it, but I don't think he has been near to the best player in the tournament. Fourie du Preez and Percival Montgomery have both been better players than him this tournament IMO.
Hernandez... Hernandez.. Hernandez!!!!!!!! If a South African gets it they're dead.. I'm still not sore about last night honest
February 10th 2009 <3
Rest In Peace Fardin
Rest In Peace Sazza
If Wilkinson kicks the winning goal, or an important drop goal in the final, then he'll get it. I don't think he deserves it though, so my vote would be for Habana or du Preez.
The Future of International Cricket - Rohit Sharma, Suresh Raina, Ravi Bopara, Tim Southee, Ross Taylor, Shahriar Nafees, Raqibul Hasan, Salman Butt, JP Duminy
Proud Supporter of the Bangladeshi Tigers
Ryan ten Doeschate - A Legend in the Making
MSN: firstname.lastname@example.com
Habana, Du Preez, Matfield, Hernandez...I feel the player of the tournament will be found from that group of players.
du Preez for mine; Matfield a very close second tho.
Cricket Web's 2013/14 Premier League Tipping Champion
- As featured in The Independent.
"The PFA does not represent players when they have broken the law and been convicted on non-football matters."
- Gordon Taylor in 2009 following Marlon King's release after a prison sentence for sexual assault & ABH
Habana had a pretty big game in the final, surely would do his chances no harm.
He choked in the semi-final.
Proud member of the Twenty20 is boring society
E-Mail - email@example.com
MSN - firstname.lastname@example.com
Is this even an official award?
Habana won the IRB player of the year award, so I guess he would've won this too.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)


text:
Tuscarawas News Detail
2012 Distinguished Honors Alumni Award Recipient: Kip PetroffPosted Apr. 16, 2012
Kip lives in Dallas with his wife, Suzi, and their family.Kip and Suze started the non-profit New Hope Foundation in 2007. The foundation grew out of a high school project started by Kip's son. The foundation strives to improve the livs of underprivileged families living in North Texas through a variety of programs offered at the Empowerment Center which was completed in 2010. All proceeds from Kip's new book, Battling Goliath: Inside a $22 Billion Legal Scandal benefit the foundation.
Widely considered one of the foremost litigation experts in the nation on the diet drug "Fen-phen," Kip won the first case ever tried to a jury verdict, an historic award that ultimately led to a nationwide settlement. The attention he received from this verdict landed Kip appearances on CNN, Good Morning America, 60 Minutes, Burden of Proof, Frontline and interviews in numerous magazines and national newspapers. Battling Goliath is based on his experiences with this litigation.


text:
Jersey Shore
Check Out Sammi Sweetheart's "Twin"! (PHOTO)
Things recently got twice as sweet for Sammi Sweetheart, and while we hope Ronnie won't confuse her and her "twin," we have to admit that this Instagram pic had us seeing double — in the best way possible!
But don't get too excited, Jersey Shore fans — there's more than meets the eye with this mysterious "twin"! "My stick figure lol," Sammi captioned the photo of her next to a cardboard cutout of herself.
Sorry to disappoint y'all! However, her cardboard lookalike isn't the only thing that resembles Sam — she actually has a sister!
Back in June, we introduced you to Sammis sister, Nikki, who is equally as stunning, has gorgeous brown hair, loves working out, and even has her own company called Fixx Me Fitness! We'll just go ahead and call them twinsies.
Did you think Sammi had a twin, or did you know we were just kidding around? Tell us below!


text:
Anderson Silva Will Fight Whoever the UFC Wants – Georges St-Pierre or Jon Jones
UFC middleweight champion and icon Anderson Silva was in attendance prior to UFC 154 kicking off to speak with the media about his plans for 2013.
The champion spoke about a lot of possibilities, but mainly he focused on a super fight against UFC welterweight champion Georges St-Pierre.
If St-Pierre is successful against Carlos Condit on Saturday, all signs are pointing towards a super fight between Silva and the welterweight champion in 2013.
The interesting addition to Silva's talk was his new opinion on a potential match-up with UFC light heavyweight champion Jon Jones.
In the past, both Silva and Jones have declined the possibility of the fight happening, but now the Brazilian legend says if the UFC wants it, then he'll do it.
Anderson Silva Will Fight Whoever the UFC Wants - Georges St-Pierre or Jon Jones | MMAWeekly.com
Anderson Silva's first goal is Georges St. Pierre but 'maybe' he'll fight Jon Jones after
http://www.mmamania.com/2012/11/17/3...-jones-ufc-mma"My first goal is the Georges St-Pierre fight, the super fight. The second goal? Maybe Jon Jones. But this is not my decision. This is Dana [White's] decision."


text:
You may also like
Rate Dr. Bhupesh Vasisht
Dr. Bhupesh Vasisht's Ratings
Went to Dr Vasisht after a consult with Jefferson plastic surgery and felt like I was a piece of meat and just didn't feel comfortable. Searched Google and found Dr. Vasisht's office. His staff made me feel so comfortable. Dr V and his staff go above and beyond for their patients. I HIGHLY suggest Dr V and his staff if you are looking for plastic surgery. I suffered from gynecomastia for years and after I lost 100 + lbs, I was dealing some loose skin at this point. Now, I can wear shirts without a compression under shirt and not feel embarrassed. I cannot send enough thanks to Dr V and his staff. I am so, so, so happy I finally had this issue gone. I have never been happier in my life. My girlfriend was highly impressed with his staff as well and felt extremely comfortable about my going under the knife for such a procedure. Thank you again Dr V and staff!!!!
Was this rating useful? 1 [[ userState['ratings'][2595038].votes_count ]]
You are greeted like a long lost friend when you come into the office. Everyone knows your name, and you "count" to them. The Dr. is an amazing human who contributes his time and profession to helping those who cannot help themselves, and for his patients, he is a warm, loving and big hearted person. Just love this practice; they should be held up as the epitome of a professional office.
Was this rating useful? 0 [[ userState['ratings'][2430089].votes_count ]]
I had been to a few other consultations, but no one spent the amount of time with me that Dr. Vasisht did. Even his staff spent a lot of time talking with me about the procedure. He made me feel confident that the work he was doing was specific to my needs and my body type. He knew exactly what I needed to get the results I wanted. I definitely didn't feel like it was a cookie cutter procedure like some of the other places I had gone to for a consultation. Dr. Vasisht and his staff made me and my family feel very comfortable with every aspect of the procedure. When I went to the surgical center the day of the surgery, I was already certain I had made the right decision by choosing Dr. Vasisht, but when the staff members there told me how highly recommended he was, how happy I was going to be with the results, and how THEY go to him for procedures on themselves, that was the icing on the cake!
Was this rating useful? 0 [[ userState['ratings'][865738].votes_count ]]
Dr. V is the most caring doctor that I have ever experienced. He called everyday to make sure I was healing and feeling better. His work was exceptional, my nose fits my face perfectly. Both him and his staff are so compassionate and fit me in their schedule so I could heal in time for school. I would recommend Dr. V to anyone who is looking for some sort of surgery.
Was this rating useful? 0 [[ userState['ratings'][865737].votes_count ]]
Dr. Vashist and the whole staff made me feel like family. He explained everything I needed, and wanted, to know about my procedure. After care has been awesome. I would definitely recommend Dr Vashist to my friends and family. Thank you and God Bless you Dr Vashist, you're the best.
Was this rating useful? 0 [[ userState['ratings'][865736].votes_count ]]
Dr. Vasisht was amazing. You can not even see where he stitched up my forehead. He was gentle kind and funny. I would refer anyone to him. He was very professional and he truly cares about his patients. I had an amazing experience and I will go to him with any other plastic surgery need that I may encounter.
Was this rating useful? 0 [[ userState['ratings'][865735].votes_count ]]
Dr. V is one of the most patient and compassionate surgeons I have met. I trusted his skill and expertise from the moment I met him. He takes an unbelievable amount of time explaining options and procedures and is a wonderful plastic surgeon. I am very pleased with his work and would recommend him to anyone. His office staff is also the kindest of group I have ever met. Thank you all!
Was this rating useful? 0 [[ userState['ratings'][865734].votes_count ]]
I felt very satisfied with my surgery results, I'am very impressed about it, Dr.V attention was important to me, from my first visit I felt comfortable, he explained to me the whole procedure and talked to me about every detail on how was this procedure done, and answered all of my questions, I'm happy to say that I can refer Dr.V to my friends, Thanks for everything.
Was this rating useful? 0 [[ userState['ratings'][865733].votes_count ]]
Dr V. was amazing. My 4 year old daughter had an accident and cut her forehead open requiring stitches. We went to the Virtua Voorhees ER, and I requested a plastic surgeon. He was on call. He arrived, and treated me and my daughter as if he had known us. He was great with my daughter, knowing that for a four year old to have surgery done can be very scary. He was very detailed, explained what he was doing and why and gave me options. He provided instructions for after surgery and we had a follow up visit. My daughter's scar looks great, and we believe when she is older it may not be noticeable. Whenever we drive by the hospital my daughter says that is where Dr V. fixed my head. What an impression on my daughter and me. Our own pediatricians who he selected do not treat my daughter or us with as much respect and kindness. Thank you Dr. V- you embody what a Doctor should be- treat the patient not the issue.
Was this rating useful? 1 [[ userState['ratings'][865732].votes_count ]]
My experience was great. He was helpful during consultations and working with me during the pre-augmentation process.
Was this rating useful? 0 [[ userState['ratings'][865731].votes_count ]]
Top Hospitals in Voorhees, NJ
Top Urgent Care Centers in Voorhees, NJ
Find a Doctor by Specialty
You may also like
Top Cosmetic Surgeons / Plastic Surgeons
#1 of 11
#2 of 11
#3 of 11
#4 of 11
#5 of 11


text:
Your Gift Truly Makes a Difference
Your generosity enables the Orlando Science Center to educate and inspire. We bring families together in an environment that encourages learning. The Orlando Science Center is the highest attended cultural venue in the region averaging 300,000 guests per year. Over 70,000 students annually experience on and off-site STEM (science, technology, engineering and math) based educational initiatives. The Science Center is a proven educational community resource that provides hands on interactive learning experiences.
Admissions and memberships provide about 65 cents of every dollar needed;
Government appropriations provide about 16 cents of every dollar needed:
- To provide access to the Orlando Science Center at a reasonable admission price.
- To ensure all families have access to the Science Center regardless of ability to pay.
- To bring and maintain state of the art exhibits at the Science Center.
The rest is up to the generosity of supporters, like you!
Please make a gift to the Orlando Science Center today. There are a variety of ways that you can be part of the mission to inspire science learning for life.
Individual Giving
Leave a Legacy
Give Others a Chance
Corporate Opportunities
Community Council
Volunteer Opportunities
10 April 2015
Posted in Support Our Mission
On Thursday, April 9, Orlando Science Center hosted the annual Inspire Science Breakfast. The event is an opportunity to celebrate the Science Center's role as a vital community resource that ignites the spark for tomorrow's leaders in science, technology, engineering and math (STEM). The event included several notable speakers, including tech entrepreneur Gregg Pollack.
Orlando Science Center's vision is to be the community partner that fosters creativity and curiosity for STEM, which stimulates the kind of innovation that transforms our economy and enhances lives.


text:
Results 11 to 19 of 19
Dorkus Malorkus
- Join Date
- Jul 2004
- Location
- Queens, NY
- Posts
- 3,008
Posted On:
3/14/2006 2:51pm
Dorkus Malorkus
- Join Date
- Jul 2004
- Location
- Queens, NY
- Posts
- 3,008
Posted On:
3/14/2006 3:28pm
--Originally Posted by ojgsxr6Shut the hell up and train.
Registered Member
- Join Date
- Oct 2003
- Location
- new jersey
- Posts
- 629
Posted On:
3/14/2006 4:34pm
The deal?
It is how a lot of guys cop out of actual training under a real instructor. They hope with all thier fiber that the instructor will have everyone spar at the end of the seminar, and catch his eye with his overwhelming technique (ie: creaming a worse white belt) and shockingly award them a belt on the spot!
I know it isn't always like that. But you would be suprised at the number of shitheads who go specifically for that reason.
--Originally Posted by Yrkoon9
Also infidel, some associates that have their own dojos but are not black belts themselves are not permitted by their instructors to promote students. Thus promotions typically occur when the head instructor comes around for a seminar.Shut the hell up and train.
Let me put it this way.
Amaury Bitteti came by my old school a couple years ago. Mostly for the guys at our gym. But Bitetti wanted to recoup some costs for his travelling, and was staying with my instructor for a week. I think he was doing 4 hour seminar for like 50 bucks. Something like that. I actually don't remember.
But I tell a few people, and then post on a message board someplace. Suddenly everyone is like....is he going to be doing belt promotions?!?!?!?!
I was like, .......
I had dry heaves at a Vitor Shaolin seminar once. It was kinda cool. His conditioning routine and excersizes were not for the feint of heart. And not for someone who didn't eat breakfast.
Oh...and make sure the instructor speaks English. Nothing worse than listening to some Brazilian try to correct you and you not speaking Portugese. Well..actually there is something worse. And that is signing up to be Uke for 2x 4 hour seminars so you can get in free and getting fucking pounded.


text:
Vacuum Cleaner Bags
Vacuum cleaning systems that offer the best cleaning ability – is that what you are seeking? It's also likely that you believe that cleaning ability is related to power or suction. Actually, it's not. While there's no single factor that determines the cleaning ability of the vacuum cleaner you use, understanding how vacuums work and how you can help maintain your vacuum cleaner to perform its best is important. Changing your vacuum cleaner bag is an important step in maintaining the efficiency of your vacuum cleaner. While most vacuum cleaners come with an indicator to help you determine when your cleaner's dust bag needs to be changed, you can perform a check yourself to see if it is over 50% full as that's when you need to replace it. Don't wait until the dust bag in your vacuum cleaner is completely full as it can reduce the suction and cleaning capacity of your vacuum cleaning system. If you use your vacuum cleaner frequently, it is recommended that you change vacuum cleaner bags once a month, especially if you are cleaning a large area over 2000 square feet or if your pet sheds a lot.
What you need the most when you are considering vacuum cleaner bag replacement is a bag that is well-matched with the model of your vacuum cleaning system. You can find original equipment manufacturer (OEM) or replacement type bags online. While both serve the purpose, that is enhancing the cleaning capacity of your vacuum cleaning system and providing you an easy way to get rid of all the dirt that you vacuum cleaner collects, you can choose one according to your budget and cleaning needs. At GoVacuum, we have got a vast range of vacuum cleaner bags from the biggest and the best brands around. You'll find them here at great prices and shipping offers. We are the vacuum cleaning system experts and can recommend the right bag for your existing system all while staying within your budget.
Electrolux 36 ELECTROLUX OXYGEN AND HARMONY CANISTER MICROFILTRATION VACUUM CLEANER BAGS$68.8536 ELECTROLUX OXYGEN AND HARMONY CANISTER BAGS. THESE ARE THE BEST QUALITY REPLACEMENT VACUUM BAGS AVAILABLE. DESIGNED TO FIT ALL ELECTROLUX OXYGEN AND HARMONY CANISTER VACUUMS. MICRO BAGS HAVE 99.7% FILTRATION AND ARE A MUST FOR ANY ALLERGY SUFFERER BUT AT THIS PRICE EVERYONE SHOULD USE THEM. THIS DEAL IS FOR 9 PACKS, EACH WITH 4 BAGS. STREET ADDRESSES ONLY PLEASE. NO P.O. BOXES. Learn More
Airway Canister Vacuum Bags +$19.85These are Canister Vacuum Bags comes in a pack of 12. Learn More
Electrolux HEPA Canister Vacuum Bags 8 Pack$16.99This is an 8 pack of Perfect Style PC-1 HEPA canister vacuum bags designed for Perfect Canister C101 and Electrolux Canister vacuums that use style C bags. Learn More
Electrolux cannister Micro [12 bags per pack]$17.95Electrolux cannister Micro [12 bags per pack] Learn More
Aerus Electrolux Type U Discovery, Guardian Upright Allergen Vacuum Cleaner Bags, 12pk.$11.99Electrolux Discovery Upright Vacuum Cleaner Bags[12 bags per Pack] Learn More
Electrolux Renaissance Type R Canister Vacuum Cleaner Bags [6 Bags per Pack, + 1 Filter. Fits Lux Guardian, Epic 9000 Canisters.$11.14Electrolux "Renaissance" Vacuum Cleaner Bags[6 Bags per Pack]. These are 6 Micro-Filtration Aerus Lux Guardian, Renaissance, and Epic canister models. Included in each package is 6 canister bags, plus a micro filter. Also known as the Type R bags, these bags meet OEM standards for Aerus Lux Home Solutions bags. Full money back guarantee on size, fit, and quality. Learn More
Electrolux, Style C, 4 PLY Cannister Vacuum Cleaner Bags[12 Bags per Pack]$19.99For the Electrolux Metal Tank Canisters, these are the Electrolux, Style C, 4 PLY Canister Vacuum Cleaner Bags, with 12 bags in a pack and with multiple inner layers to provide better filtration than the standard 1 ply bags. Learn More
ELECTROLUX APTITUDE AND OXYGEN UPRIGHT MICROFILTRATION VACUUM CLEANER BAGS$18.99This is a 5 pack of Electrolux Aptitude Upright Bags, part # EL204B, for the Electrolux Aptitude Upright Vacuum cleaners. Learn More
Electrolux cannister [12 bags per pack]$19.99Electrolux cannister [12 bags per pack] Learn More
Electrolux Vacuum EL205B Oxygen 3 Upright Vacuum Bag$18.99These Oxygen 3 Upright Vacuum Bags capture ultra-fine particles for cleaner indoor air, leaving you free to think about other things than air quality. This package also comes packed with a motor filter for added convenience. Per Package includes 4 bags and 1 motor filter. Learn More
Electrolux Upr micro[12 bags per pack]$17.95Electrolux Upr micro[12 bags per pack] Learn More
Electrolux Sanitaire S Bags Oxygen or Harmony 23169114760$13.99Electrolux S Vacuum Bags. These Electrolux S Bags Fit Oxygen & Harmony Vacuums. The Electrolux S Bags Are Great For Allergies. 23169114760 S Bags Electrolux. Learn More
Electrolux 62100 Style UP-1 High Filtration Vacuum Bags 5 pack$16.99Fits Sanitaire model SC6600A. Not sure which bag fits your vacuum? Check out our handy Eureka Bag Chart Learn More
Electrolux Style U Discovery Vacuum Bags (60 bags total)$32.50These are Electrolux Style U Discovery Vacuum Bags that feature a mult-ply and microlined design with an inner liner of electrostatically charged filtering material that captures potential airborne particles. 60 bags total. Learn More
100 electrolux bags u upright Generic Electrolux Discovery Upright Style U BULK Vacuum Bags, 100 Total Bags.$31.83This item contains 100 loose Electrolux Discovery Style "U" upright vacuum cleaner bags. Bags are shipped loosely in a box. These multi-ply bag are microlined bags which have an inner liner of electrostatically charged filter material which captures airborne allergens. Also included is the rubber gasket, or seal around the hole in the top of the vacuum bag which helps seal the bag to the vacuum cleaner. Fits all Electrolux Discovery Series upright models including; Discovery I, Discovery II, Discovery III, ProLux models, as well as Electrolux Epic uprights. 100 Total Bags Per Box. Learn More
Electrolux EL206 Intensity Vacuum Cleaner Bags, 6 Bags + 1 Filter.$14.95Electrolux EL206 Intensity Vacuum Cleaner bags. These are the Genuine Electolux Vacuum bags that are designed to fit the Electrolux Intesity Upright Vacuum, model EL5020. Each package contains a total of 6 bags plus 1 filter. Learn More
Electrolux Style Z Vacuum Cleaner Bags EL209 To Fit Electrolux EL9025 Vacuums.$10.99Genuine Electrolux Style Z vacuum cleaner bags to fit Electrolux upright model EL9025. Each package contains 5 premium allergen filtration vacuum bags. Electrolux part number EL209, UPC: 023169124523. Learn More
32 Electrolux Type C HEPA Allergy Filtration Vacuum Cleaner Bags$75.9932 Electrolux HEPA Type C Vacuum Cleaner Bags. These HEPA Bags Fit All Older Electrolux Canisters Using Style C Bags. Bulk Deal From GoVacuum. Learn More
Electrolux EL203B Anti-Odor S Bag (EL6900 and EL7000 series)$10.99Fresher air quality bag. For EL6985, EL6988, EL6989, EL7000, EL7020 and EL7025 series canisters. Contains two per bag. Learn More
Electrolux Style U Upright 4-Ply Vacuum Cleaner Bags 12 pk.$19.98Electrolux Upright Single Wall 4-Ply Vacuum Cleaner Bags Style U, 12 pk, UPC: 836301008311 Learn More
Electrolux EL200CQ Classic S-Bag (10/pk)$18.28Electrolux S bags are made of paper. Fits Electrolux canisters. This is a 10 pack of Genuine EL200CQ Bags. UPC 023169120013 Learn More
Electrolux ZVac Style C Canister Vacuum Bags (15 pack)$16.47Electrolux ZVac Style C Canister Vacuum Bags (15 pack) are hypoallergenic replacement bags for the Electrolux tank style canister vacuum cleaners. Manufactured to provide high quality and for easy installation. Learn More
Envirocare Electrolux Upright Micro 12 Pack$9.53Envirocare Electrolux Upright Micro 12 Pack Learn More
Electrolux Anti-Odor S Bag for EL6900 & EL7000 series - Genuine - 3 Pack$10.75Electrolux Anti-Odour S-bag with activated charcoal helps to remove odor. Fits all Harmony and Oxygen canister vacuums. 3 bags per package. Fresher air quality bag. For EL6985, EL6988, EL6989, EL7000, EL7020 and EL7025 series canisters. Learn More
100 ELECTROLUX 4 PLY CANISTER VACUUM SWEEPER BAGS$20.04100 ELECTROLUX CANISTER VACUUM BAGS. THESE ARE THE BEST QUALITY REPLACEMENT VACUUM BAGS AVAILABLE. DESIGNED TO FIT ALL ELECTROLUX CANISTER VACUUMS SINCE 1952 USING BAG C. (DOES NOT FIT THE RENAISSANCE, OXYGEN OR HARMONY) THESE ARE 4-PLY BAGS WITH THE VERY IMPORTANT RUBBER GASKET AROUND THE OPENING. Learn More
Electrolux Oxygen / Harmony EL200 Series Canister Vacuum Cleaner Bags, 4pk.$9.00Electrolux vacuum cleaner bags fits all Electrolux Harmony, Oxygen and Oxygen Ultra canister vacuum cleaners. One 4 pack of Electrolux vacuum cleaner bags made by Envirocare. Learn More
Electrolux EUR 62370-10 Paper Dust Bag For SC412 Vacuum Cleaner (Case of 10 )$194.29Disposable Vacuum Cleaner Bags, For Use with Eureka Vacuums, EUR 412 (sold separately). ~ For Use with Eureka Vacuums Learn More


text:
Whale watchers on an island in southern British Columbia got quite a treat. A pod of orcas popped out of the water very close to shore.
Video Archives
A man who went to a North Carolina restaurant hoping to propose to his girlfriend instead wound up stopping a robbery. The place had been robbed twice before in the past month, and this time, the robber didn't get away with it. Steve Ohnesorge has the story.
Move over, grumpy cat. The Internet now has a cantankerous-but-cute face to adore. It belongs to a five-month old puggle -- a cross between a pug and a beagle. The Iowa pup has gained thousands of new followers on social media. Bailey Deitz introduces us to Earl the grumpy puppy.
Every Friday at 8:40 a.m., morning forecaster Aaron Perlman sings the weekend forecast. Each one is on the spot to keep it fresh and relatable to the weather information, and not break any copyright laws. Let us know what you think?
Some are calling her an angel, amazing and selfless. And she pretty much fits those descriptions perfectly! A 9-year old girl was hoping to raise a little money making bracelets to help her best friend with a rare skin disease, but that little turned into thousands! Stacey Spivey reports.
Babies are often in the NICU for weeks, sometimes months, so the hospital staff not only get's to know the patients during their stay but their families too, creating a bond that can be remembered for a lifetime. Each year, Memorial Hospital and Children's Hospital Colorado invite families of former neonatal intensive care unit patients to reunite with the doctors and nurses who helped save their lives. Taylor Bishop has the story.
A young kitten was having trouble eating so her caretaker came up with a solution.
To better simulate getting fed by her actual mother, this cat owner decided to feed Munchkin the Kitten using syringes with her food stuffed inside.
To better simulate getting fed by her actual mother, this cat owner decided to feed Munchkin the Kitten using syringes with her food stuffed inside.
A safari park in Crimea recently welcomed a rare set of Siberian tiger triplets.
If you like to be creative, but don't consider yourself an artist, there's a new hobby that might be just right for you. Adult coloring has become extremely popular in recent months. So popular, in fact, several adult coloring books are on best seller lists.
It's not every day that a highway traffic cam picks up air traffic, coming in for an emergency landing in the westbound lane of a roadway near the Jersey shore. CNN's Jeanne Moos talked to the pilot who's being praised for avoiding cars and power lines after his Cessna lost power.
A little girl with vision problems got to see her mom and dad for the first time, and her reaction is so priceless, more than 21 million people have watched it. CNN's Jeanne Moos reports.
The Blue Angels thrilled visitors as they flew over Pensacola Beach, Florida over the weekend. One of the jets passed close enough to the ground to send tents and umbrellas flying. The crowd seemed to love it.
A group of friends went kayaking off the coast of England and encountered a friendly seal. It tried to jump into one of the kayaks. Two people jumped into the water and the seal ended up playing with them, even nibbling on their feet.
Tuesday, the Chick-fil-A cow stopped by for their annual Dress Like a Cow Day. People who dress up like a cow and come to Chick-Fil-A can get a free meal.
Bakersfield police on Thursday detonated a suspicious object at Belle Terrace Park. Police haven't said what the object was.
Every Friday at 8:40 a.m., forecaster Aaron Perlman creates a NEW sing-a-long forecast for our viewers. This week, he sings about the upcoming weekend.
Don't want to stand in line? There's an app for that! Ellina Abovian has the story.
Trapped in a chimney for hours, an Irving 10-year-old is out of the hospital and explaining how he got stuck. Jeff Paul has the story.
The Bakersfield Fire Department hosted a demonstration Thursday to illustrate the dangers of fireworks.
The newly crowned "World's Ugliest Dog" was dogged by fans snapping photos as she took a victory lap around New York City. Not only has she become a media darling, but as Jeanne Moos reports, the ugliest mutt has a makeover in her future.
Ever have one of those days where you're so tired that you just start nodding off? Well, this little furry guy can totally understand.


text:
Thank you for your interest in Executive Education at the Kellogg School of Management. Due to scheduled server maintenance, our online application system is currently unavailable..
During this time you may still download and submit a completed application by email firstname.lastname@example.com or fax 847-467-3072.
For the Advanced Executive Program, Executive Development Program, click here.
If you are applying on behalf of someone else, please read these instructions.
Applying on behalf of someone else
HR and administrative professionals may submit an application on behalf of the participant for 1 to 5 day programs. Due to stricter admissions criteria, applicants to General Management programs should complete the online application independently.
If you have access to the applicant's e-mail
The Kellogg Executive Education Account should be created using the applicant's name and e-mail address. Applying with your own e-mail address is inadvisable and can cause errors in the account.
If you do not have access to the applicant's e-mail
Please download the PDF application form available on each program's webpage and submit it according to the instructions found on the last page. Applying with your own e-mail address is inadvisable and can cause errors in the account.
If you have any additional questions regarding completing applications for others, or for groups, please contact our technical support team at email@example.com or 847.467.3038.