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Guide to the diagnosis, treatment and prevention of conditions from A to Z.
Hysterectomy is the surgical removal of the uterus. Different portions of the uterus, as well as other organs, may be removed at the same time.
More than 600,000 hysterectomies are performed in the U.S. each year.
Hysterectomy is the second most common major operation in women of child bearing age.
The most common conditions for hysterectomy are fibroid tumors, endometriosis, and uterine prolapse.
The following are several possible causes or reasons for hysterectomy:
Fibroid tumors. Non-malignant tumors may grow and become large, causing pressure on other organs and possibly heavy bleeding or pelvic pain.
Endometriosis. Endometrial cells sometimes grow outside of the uterus, attach themselves to other organs in the pelvic cavity, and bleed each month in accordance with an ovarian cycle. This can result in chronic pelvic pain, pain during sex, and prolonged or heavy bleeding.
Endometrial hyperplasia. A cause of abnormal bleeding, this over-thickening of the uterine lining is often due to the presence of continuous estrogen without progesterone. This is common during perimenopause when hormone levels are changing.
Cancer. Approximately 10 percent of hysterectomies are performed to treat cancer—either cervical, ovarian, or endometrial.
Blockage of the bladder or intestines. A hysterectomy may be performed if there is a blockage of the bladder or intestines by the uterus or a growth.
Total hysterectomy. Includes the removal of the entire uterus, including the fundus (the part of the uterus above the openings of the fallopian tubes) and the cervix, but not the ovaries. This is the most common type of hysterectomy.
Hysterectomy with bilateral oophorectomy. Includes the removal of one or both ovaries, and sometimes the fallopian tubes, along with the uterus.
Radical hysterectomy. Includes the removal of the uterus, cervix, the top portion of the vagina, most of the tissue that surrounds the cervix in the pelvic cavity, and may include the removal of the pelvic lymph nodes. This is done in some cases of cancer.
Supracervical hysterectomy (partial or subtotal hysterectomy). Removal of the body of the uterus while leaving the cervix intact.
Abdominal hysterectomy. The uterus is removed through the abdomen via a surgical incision about six to eight inches long. This procedure is most commonly used when the ovaries and fallopian tubes are being removed, when the uterus is enlarged, or when disease has spread to the pelvic cavity, as in endometriosis or cancer. The main surgical incision can be made either vertically, from the navel down to the pubic bone, or horizontally, along the top of the pubic hairline.
Vaginal hysterectomy. The uterus is removed through the vaginal opening. This procedure is most often used in cases of uterine prolapse, or when vaginal repairs are necessary for related conditions. No external incision is made, which means there is no visible scarring.
Laparoscope-assisted vaginal hysterectomy (LAVH). Vaginal hysterectomy is performed with the aid of a laparoscope, a thin, flexible tube containing a video camera. Thin tubes are inserted through tiny incisions in the abdomen near the navel. The uterus is then removed in sections through the laparoscope tube or through the vagina.
The type of hysterectomy performed and the technique used to perform the procedure will be determined by your physician, based upon your particular situation.
For women who have not yet reached menopause, having a hysterectomy means that menstruation will no longer occur, nor will pregnancy be possible.
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As the world's largest active lifestyle sports platform, Competitor represents a game-changing collection of dynamic media and participatory event brands.
At our core are 83 international events including the Rock 'n' Roll Marathon Series, ING KiDS ROCK Series, REI Muddy Buddy Adventure Series and TriRock Triathlon Series, collectively delivering more than 600,000 professional and amateur participants. Combined with multi-platform media offerings including national print properties Competitor, Triathlete, Velo and Women's Running and their respective digital properties on across the Competitor Endurance Sports Network of websites, Competitor delivers 360 degrees of impact marketing.
Step up to the starting line with us, and we'll connect your brand to a powerful group of consumers with a common purpose: to become a better competitor.

subset: commoncrawl


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PIPPA PASSES — An investigation is underway by Kentucky State Police after a late-night gun battle in Knott County last weekend.
Kentucky State Police officials released a statement Monday morning stating that troopers were dispatched to a home in Pippa Passes shortly before 2 a.m. Police were told that a male subject was attempting to gain entry into the home by use of force.
The alleged perpetrator, 50-year-old Clyde Thomas, was accused of forcing his way into the residence by breaking open a glass door. Once inside, he allegedly fired several shots with an unidentified firearm. The owner of the home returned fire, resulting in Thomas receiving multiple gunshot wounds.
Thomas was transported to Hazard ARH by Tran-Star Ambulance and later flown to the University of Kentucky Medical Center in Lexington. Thomas' status was not released by KSP officials.
Police say that the wife and daughter of Thomas were both in the residence during the intrusion but were not injured in the gunfire. Det. Clayton Stamper is in charge of the investigation and criminal charges are pending at this time.


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Emergency NumbersPhone Book (Must be on-campus or have a valid network account)
Chapter 11: Chair Responsibilities - Certain Legal Matters
Chairs have a leadership role and responsibility for reporting safety and legal issues in their respective departments to Academic Affairs Administration or HR. Such issues may include an injury/work comp claim, Family/Medical Leave request, inappropriate/fraudulent conduct, or other matters.
Faculty, employee or student injury reports can be found on the Environmental Health and Safety web site. This site also contains information regarding Biological, Chemical, Environmental Management, and Occupational Health and Safety.
All employees, including department chairs, have a responsibility to report unethical or improper conduct, which can be done via the Ethics Point site .
If as a chair, there are any doubts regarding a potential issue, seek advice. Among great sources of information, Chairs may consider:
- Human Resource Office
- Associate Provost/Academic Dean
- Life Safety
- Information Technology
Last updated: October 2013


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$13 for a Universal Keychain Charger for Smartphones & Tablets - Shipping Included ($55 Value)
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Friday, February 21, 2014
An Andrews woman has been sentenced to four years in prison for fraud.
United States Attorney Bill Nettles said Queen Edwards Nesmith, 53, was sentenced in federal court in Charleston for Health Care Fraud and Aggravated Identity Theft.
Senior United States District Judge Sol Blatt Jr. sentenced Nesmith to 24 months imprisonment on each charge, for a total of 48 months, and ordered her to pay approximately $411,000 in restitution.
Evidence presented in court showed Nesmith once operated Highmarket Primary Care, a medical clinic in Georgetown and sold the facility to another health care provider in 2007.
She continued to bill Medicare after she sold the clinic, receiving more than $400,000 for non-existent services supposedly rendered by a medical doctor who no longer worked at the clinic. Nesmith used the identity of the doctor and real patients in carrying out the fraud, Nettles states.
The case was investigated by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, Office of the Inspector General, and the Defense Criminal Investigative Service, and was prosecuted by Assistant United States Attorney Eric Klumb.
South Strand News is pleased to offer readers the enhanced ability to comment on stories. We expect our readers to engage in lively, yet civil discourse. We do not edit user submitted statements and we cannot promise that readers will not occasionally find offensive or inaccurate comments posted in the comments area. Responsibility for the statements posted lies with the person submitting the comment, not South Strand News.
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Course Abstract Details
LGST-111, Criminal Evidence and Procedure
Credits: 3
Course Description
LGST-111, Criminal Evidence and Procedure, examines the principles and techniques of criminal procedure employed during trials to determine the admissibility of physical and testimonial evidence. An analysis of laws and court decisions relating to admissibility is emphasized. Also offered as CRIM-111; credit will not be awarded for both. Prerequisite: exemption/completion of READ-099. Three hours lecture each week. Three credits. Three billable hours.
Course Objectives and Grading Information
Course Objectives At the conclusion of this course the student will:
1. Distinguish between admissible and inadmissible evidence. (GE2, GE3, PG1, PG4)
a. To be admissible in court, evidence must be: Relevant, Material and legally obtained
2. Discuss the differences between direct and circumstantial evidence and the effects thereof. (GE1, GE2, GE5, GE7, PG1, PG2, PG3)
a. Direct evidence is the testimony of a person who asserts or claims to have actual knowledge of a fact, such as an eyewitness.
b. Circumstantial evidence is evidence that tends to establish the facts in dispute by proving the existence of another set of facts from which an inference or presumption can be drawn.
3. Evaluate opinion evidence as to its weight and effect. (GE2, GE5, GE6, GE7 PG1, PG3)
a. Sufficient personal knowledge of another individual may well be in a position to render an opinion or evidence
b. The contact must be close enough to enable the character witness to have sufficient knowledge of the person upon which to base an opinion as to character.
c. The testimony is limited to the character witness's general opinion.
4. Identify the exceptions to the hearsay exclusionary rule. (GE2, GE5, PG1, PG 3, PG4)
a. dying declarations
b. spontaneous declarations,
c. state of mind
d. statements for purposes of medical diagnosis or treatment
e. former testimony
5. Discuss the effect of privileged communications and the necessity of waivers for admissibility.(GE1, GE2, GE5, GE7, PG1, GE4)
a. Husband-Wife
b. Parent-Child
c. Attorney-Client
d. Physician-Patient
e. Patient-Psychotherapist
f. Clergy-Communicant
g. Law Enforcement Officer-Informant
h. Accountant-Client
i. News Reporter-News Source
6. Explore the use of unconstitutionally obtained evidence.(GE1, GE2, GE3, GE5, PG1, PG3)
a. When there is a violation of a defendant's constitutional rights, in addition to the direct fruit of the violation being inadmissible, any evidence derived from the violation is also inadmissible under the fruit of the poisonous tree doctrine.
b. The U.S. Supreme Court has created an impeachment exception to the rule that excludes statements taken by the police in violation of Miranda.
c. If a defendant: takes the witness stand, and testifies untruthfully, the prosecutor can use a statement obtained in violation of Miranda to impeach the defendant's testimony.
Learning Goals
The abbreviations in parentheses represent Learning Goals which have been identified for this course and program of study:


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Electro Harmonix Tone TattooThe Electro Harmonix Tone Tattoo redefines the multi-effect pedal. Packed with a Metal Muff, Neo Clone, and Memory Toy, the Electro Harmonix Tone Tattoo is an all-in-one tone sculpting pedal that features all analog effects.$214.00
Electro Harmonix Holy StainThe Holy Stain is a Multi Effect Pedal, combining Overdrive, Fuzz, Distortion, Pitch Shifting,Tremolo and reverb, all in one modestly sized box. Mix any combination of analog distortion with 4 DSP effects with the Electro Harmonix Holy Stain.$117.50
Electro Harmonix Epitome Multi EffectThe Electro Harmonix Epitome puts three great pedals in one unit. The Micro POG polyphonic octave generator, the Stereo Electric Mistress chorus/flanger, and the Holy Grail Plus reverb, each with its own buffered bypass for every combination of effects.$370.70


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6:06 am
Tue December 18, 2012
Questions Answered About Indiana Jones Package
By editor
Good morning. I'm David Greene. Last week, we told you that the University of Chicago had received a package addressed to Indiana Jones. The character is said to have attended the school. Some thought the journal inside with old maps and photos was the work of a creative applicant. No, turns out it was just lost mail. It was part of another package - an eBay purchase that was supposed to go to Italy. The replica prop fell out. And when a postal worker saw a University of Chicago address, a zip code was added and off it went. It's MORNING EDITION. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.


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I absolutely love this formula and the design is beautiful. I with Chanel would give you more product for the price you pay though. The gold shade is a little more sheer than I would prefer. Overall it's a very good pallet that makes me feel as if I'm spoiling myself every time I use it.
One essential compact offers unlimited eye looks, with shade combinations that range from matte to satin to shimmer. Versatile smudge-proof formula can be applied dry for subtle shading, or dampened for more intense colour, all with long-wearing results — in even extreme climates. Dermatologist tested.


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The calendar turns to 2012 and the curling season is building toward the playdown battles soon to begin in earnest.
The Scotties field will be decided by the end of the month, with many new stories to be written, with Junior provincials last week and this week, and the Brier playdowns having begun across the country. I'm very much looking forward to the inevitable battle of Manitoba to begin in Dauphin, Manitoba when reigning World Champions Team Stoughton looks to hold off the newly appointed #1 ranked team in the world, Team McEwen.
As for Team McEwen, Skipper Mike and his longtime girlfriend Dawn Askin (of team Jennifer Jones) became engaged over the holidays. Congrats to the couple on the news!
Team McEwen is charged over the upcoming challenge they face in Manitoba, and really know that they'll be judged on when they make their first Brier appearance. Not really a household name yet, but these guys will be soon! Far From Home: Team McEwen goes behind the scenes during their recent appearance in the final of the BDO Canadian Open in Kingston.
How about a little story of a lesser known team, the Schlender boys from Edmonton? In Far From Home: Team Schlender, the team visits the Loonie Curling Club, and finds themselves on the farm of Alex McKinney, sharing in shots of maple syrup and Baileys and tossing some granite near Chaffey's Locks. A great look at one of the fun teams on Tour!
Some quick hitters:
How about supporting United States curler, Olympian and musician Chris Plys? He played a couple sets during the WCT Stu Sells Toronto Tankard in October, where he was playing 3rd for Team George and his CD is now for sale! Listen here, and buy here!
Town of Kirkland Lake writes off $80,000 in back taxes for the curling club, taking a lot of pressure off the membership, story here.
The Norfolk Curling Club in Connecticut looks to rebuild after a recent devastating fire, more details here.
World Curling Tour goes to Scotland this weekend, a preview in the local Perthshire Advertiser outlines the allure of curling (and golfing) in Scotland in January!
Looking forward to much more coming up, and suggestions are always welcome as we work to make this the next can't miss curling blog!


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Science Matters
GEMS: Great Environmental Moments in Science
Game On: Can Serious Games Help Inform Serious Environmental Challenges?
EPA researchers partner with IBM to provide data and science for CityOne, a serious game with real-world potential.
Down the Drain: Wetlands as Sinks for Absorbing Reactive Nitrogen
EPA scientists conduct the first continental-scale analysis to estimate how much nitrogen is removed by wetlands.
Innovative Tools Help EPA Scientists Determine Total Chemical Exposures
EPA-pioneered green chemistry technology that filters toxic pollutants from industrial waste and turns it into a marketable resource has the potential to pay big dividends for paper mills.
The Future of Toxicity Testing is Here
EPA Tox21 partnership taps high-tech robots to advance toxicity testing.
Supporting Decisions By the Pie Slice: EPA Researcher Serves Up Data
An EPA statistician is developing innovative ways to translate vast quantities of toxicological data into an accessible, visual format.
Chemical Toxicity Testing Going Digital
An EPA is using computer models to predict the human health and environmental hazards of new chemicals and advance the design and use of green chemistry.
The Science Behind Human Health: EPA's Integrated Risk and Information System
The IRIS program strengthens the scientific foundation that protects health and the environment.


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ArchivesBlog powered by WordPress.
Joomla! extension by 'corePHP'
Tag Archives: Medical Leave
By Anney Bolgiano, Programs and Policy Intern
California and New Jersey are on opposite coasts. New Jersey's population is 8.8 million, while California's is a whopping 38.4 million. Their climates are different, their histories are different and they are separated by nearly 3,000 miles. But there is one very important thing California and New Jersey do have in common: paid family and medical leave.
Unfortunately, California and New Jersey stand out as the only two states with fully funded and functioning paid leave programs in the US. Continue reading


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|NHL Hockey
|Player News
FOXBORO — WEEI.com's Mike Petraglia and Chris Price discuss the return of LeGarrette Blount to Patriots training camp on Saturday, the first day of full pads practice for the defending Super Bowl champions.
Dickerson and Price discuss the RB position and who will get a majority of the workload. They also talk about missing Revis and the CB position. The boys also get into more Deflategate discussions with callers.
Dickerson and Price are live from Fenway today and kick off NFL Sunday discussing some of the events at Pats training camp this week. Then they get into the court battle between Brady and Goodell and where we go from here? The guys give their predictions on just how many games Brady will in fact sit out. They get into the Chris Mortenson situation after he backed out of the D&C interview. Finally, Trags (Mike Petraglia) of WEEI.com joins the boys live from training camp.
Jay King of Masslive.com joins the show to break down the performance of the Celtics during the NBA Summer League. Then Ben and Sam discuss the exciting possibility of a Space Jam sequel.
Michael joins Ben and Sam to discuss the wild NBA Free Agency period and the upcoming Celtics season.
How long will this rebuild take? How much money will it take to keep Bae Crowder? Are Draft Picks even worth anything? With the Danny Ainge not landing any big names in the draft, and unable to lure any big names in free agency, Sam and Ben discussed if the Celtics are doomed moving forward.
Joe & Dave talked to the Sox rookie, who had four hits, hit two home runs, and scored five runs in the win over the Rays at Fenway
Joe and Dave are joined by Pedro who was at the game and had his number 45 retired by the Red Sox in a very touching pregame ceremony. Pedro talks about going into the Hall of Fame, his time in Boston and love for the game of baseball.
Joe & Dave talked to the Sox designated hitter, who hit two home runs and drove in seven runs in the win over the Tigers.
Don Sweeney, who was hired as the Bruins general manager yesterday speaks with Dale and Holley about his new position and where the Bruins go from here.
The awesomely knowledgeable Fluto Shinzawa calls DJ, Naoko and Pete to talk about his thoughts on the future of the B's. He discusses his column from earlier this week on Cam Neely wanting to give Claude the ax earlier in the season but not getting the ok. Fluto shares his thoughts on Chiarelli's firing, the future for Claude and where the Bruins should go from here. He also gives his opinion on potential moves the team can make, who would fit in here, his thoughts on the NHL playoffs so far and more.
In the final hour of the "midseason finale" as DJ likes to call it, the crew discuss more about the future of the Bruins franchise, the possible power struggle in the front office and who should be the head coach going forward. They talk to intelligent and talented Fluto Shinzawa about all of these thing and more in an excellent interview, and finally, DJ says THANK YOU!
Mike Florio gave us his thoughts on Brady's appeal.
The top stories of the day.
The guys discussed the future of the Red Sox leadership.
Ronda Rousey defended her UFC Bantamweight championship at UFC 190.
Chris Price reports from Foxboro about some of the battles at Training Camp.
Mike Napoli remains a member of the Red Sox, as the team did very little at the July 31st deadline.
Exactly what it
The title says it all
Dale, Michael and Jerry Thornton talk about all things Patriots, including the challenges on the field and the drama off the field as 2015 training camp opens today in Foxborough.
Mikey Adams lets the Red Sox have it and welcomes callers who do the same. The Red Sox (stink)!
Mikey Adams and Lenny Megliola get 36 glorious minutes between games of a Monday doubleheader, and after an 11-1 Red Sox loss, to vent about the declining state of the team.
Mikey Adams and Lenny Megliola talk to #RedSox great Bill Lee, The Spaceman, about the current version of the Sox as only The Spaceman can describe things.
Intern extraordinaire Lucy joins Jerry once again to discuss the most vexing questions in the history of mankind: can men and women coexist? What are the differences between how men and women think? And how mean can women really be?
If you play Fantasy Football then you know there are several "Elephants in the Room!" And nobody is talking about them. Are they afraid? We're not! The Dallas Running game, Leveon Bell, Demarco Murray & Ryan Matthews in the Philly backfield, the Saints offense and so much more. Right here, WEEI's own Jim Hackett and Pete Davidson cover all of the main "Elephants in the Room" to help you get the edge for your upcoming drafts. Enjoy!
Russ & Alex discuss Andrea Pirlo's MLS debut, Didier Drogba signing with Montreal and debate which team has had the best transfer window so far.
Mike Florio gave us his thoughts on Brady's appeal.More from this show
We know the leak to ESPN on deflate gate.More from this show
Buck, Gary and Dino discussed Kraft's comments.More from this show
The top stories of the day.More from this show
ESPN's reporter ducked the show.More from this show


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The Bible--concerned with sanctity in all aspects of life--prohibits incest, adultery, and a number of other sexual relationships.
By Rabbi Ronald H. Isaacs
We Also Recommend
Reprinted with permission from Every Person's Guide to Jewish Sexuality, published by Jason Aronson Publishers.
Although the technical term for sexual offenses in general is gillui arayot (literally, "the uncovering of nakedness"), the term is usually employed to denote carnal knowledge and unethical sex. In the present context, however, sexual offenses include offenses committed by prohibited sexual intercourse, offenses of unlawful sexual conduct short of intercourse, and related offenses presumably motivated by the sexual urge.
Following is the famous biblical passage from chapter 18 of the Book of Leviticus, which was chosen as the Torah reading for the afternoon of Yom Kippur, the Day of Atonement. The passage condemns adultery and other immoralities. Following the announcement of forgiveness by the High Priest, at the conclusion of the Avodah service in the Temple, the maidens danced in the vineyards and betrothals were announced. The Torah reading of Leviticus 18 was likely selected for Yom Kippur afternoon to impress upon the young people the need to maintain Israel's high standard of family morality. Impurity in marriage, incestuous promiscuity among near relations, and other abominations were condemned and regarded as grave sins.
The retention of this biblical passage was likely prompted by the desire to inculcate on the Day of Atonement the paramount duties of self‑control and connubial purity, which have proved such potent factors in the survival of the Jewish people. To be reconciled with God and with our fellow human beings, we must be chaste in body, wholesome in mind, and pure in heart. A high standard of domestic fidelity is the basis of a happy home and a moral home is the foundation of an enduring civilization.
Here is the passage from Leviticus 18:
"…None of you shall approach to any that is near of kin to him, to uncover their nakedness, I am the Lord. The nakedness of your father, even the nakedness of your mother, shall you not uncover. She is your mother, and you shall not uncover her nakedness. The nakedness of your father's wife shall you not uncover; it is your father's nakedness. The nakedness of your sister, the daughter of your father, or daughter of your mother, whether she be born at home, or abroad, even their nakedness you shall not uncover. The nakedness of your son's daughter, or of your daughter's daughter, even their nakedness you shall not uncover. For theirs is your own nakedness. The nakedness of your father's wife's daughter, begotten of your father, she is your sister, you shall not uncover her nakedness. You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father's sister; she is your father's near kinswoman. You shall not uncover the nakedness of your mother's sister, for she is your mother's near kinswoman. You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father's brother, you shall not approach his wife. She is your aunt. You shall not uncover the nakedness of your daughter‑in‑law; she is your son's wife. You shall not uncover her nakedness. You shall not uncover the nakedness of your brother's wife; it is your brother's nakedness. You shall not uncover the nakedness of a woman and her daughter; you shall not take her son's daughter, or her daughter's daughter, to uncover her nakedness; they are near kinswomen; it is lewdness. And you shall not take a woman to her sister, to be a rival to her, to uncover her nakedness, besides the other in her lifetime. And unto a woman separated by her menstrual impurity you shall not approach to uncover her nakedness. And you shall not lie carnally with your neighbor's wife, to defile yourself with her. And you shall not give any of your seed to set them apart for Molech [a god worshipped through child sacrifice], neither shall you profane the name of your God. I am the Lord. You shall not lie with mankind as with womankind. It is an abomination. And you shall not lie with any beast to defile yourself therewith; neither shall any woman stand before a beast, to lie down thereto; it is perversion. Defile not yourselves in any of these things, for in all these, the nations are defiled, which I cast out before you (Leviticus 18:6-24)."
Did you like this article? MyJewishLearning is a not-for-profit organization.


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Customer Reviews
- You have a customer for life Review by K. Foley
- I am writing this letter to thank you for making a great product. My order was put in the mail on Sat and on Tues the jacket arrived! That is 1 day shipping. The wrong size was ordered by me so i called at 8am to return it. I was given a return # and 3 days later the new jacket arrived! The customer service of your company is fantastic and the A-2 you produce is unbelievable, the weight of the jacket is just right, craftsmanship is perfect, color is perfect, price is $200 less than Eastman, Lost Worlds. Mr. Dover you have a customer for life! BTW whoever crafted my jacket should receive a pay raise. Thank you. (Posted on 7/21/2010)
- Great and fast service Review by Guus
- I would like to thank U.S. Authentic for the great and fast service and for the quality of their products. Just recently I ordered a seal brown A2 and got it the next day. It's a fantastic jacket. Keep up the great work. (Posted on 7/21/2010)
- Excellent Review by Jonathan Glazer
- Just got the A-2 yesterday. Excellent as usual!! I think the A-2 fits me a little better in the 42 than the 40. I love the jacket already and am wearing it today. My other two G-1s that you made me got away to my two sons so I will probably be ordering another G-1 plain-no insignias in the next couple of weeks. (Posted on 7/21/2010)
- Quality service Review by Bob Jacobs
- If you are interested in an authentic and quality A-2 Flight Jacket, US Authentic is the place to purchase it. I received a seal brown horsehide A-2 from US Authentic as a Christmas gift. Mr. Dover stands behind his products with quality service. Compare other A-2 jackets on the A-2 Jacket Website and see for yourself. C****r, A****x, and Sc**t do not have the quality you find with Us Authentic. (Posted on 7/21/2010)
- Highest quality Review by Capt. Dick
Your jacket (A-2) IS OF THE HIGHEST QUALITY.... I just want to make it look older!!!!!
Guess Rough Wear Clothing Co. Is a bit overpriced....
(Posted on 7/21/2010)
- Expertly crafted Review by Bruce Kendall
- I received my A2 today and it is a beauty, indeed. It fits well, is expertly crafted, and appears to be authentic in every detail. It is hard for me to imagine a jacket more expertly crafted than this one. Obviously, I am very pleased. You may recall that I had intended to purchase an A2 from Flight Suits but opted to buy one from you after reading the testimonials on your web site. Looking at and wearing this jacket validates all of the testimonials. I would not hesitate to recommend U.S. Authentic to anyone interested in an authentic A2. Please convey my appreciation to the individuals who worked on my jacket for their excellent craftsmanship. I look forward to doing business with you in the future. (Posted on 7/21/2010)
- Rolex, BMW, and US Authenti Review by Steve Willey
- I was relatively uninformed about the authentic aspects of A-2 jackets and after much study decided to try US Authentic. I ordered a goatskin model and when it arrived was impressed at the softness and style. I may never be an expert on the various things that make an "authentic" jacket, but I do recognize quality when I see it. Rolex, BMW, and US Authentic!! (Posted on 7/21/2010)
- Flawless leather Review by Byron Lang
Thanks for a wonderful jacket. I had been in the market for a substantial, quality USA made leather jacket for several weeks. I liked the style of the flight jacket and viewed many in stores and on the internet before making a decision. The store brands always seemed to have one imperfection or another. They were not of quality construction and were often manufactured of substandard materials in countries most of us are not familiar with. I found flaws with every jacket I examined.
I then came across U.S. AUTHENTIC' S website while looking for a reputable maker of flight jackets on the internet. I read the descriptions and the many letters of praise from satisfied customers around the country. I was a bit apprehensive about purchasing a jacket site unseen, but was reassured by the full refund policy. I decided to take a chance and placed an order for a horsehide A-2 jacket. In just a few days it arrived, despite being shipped during the height of the Christmas rush season.
I was very pleasantly surprised upon receiving the jacket. Although I am not an expert on A-2 jackets, I was very impressed with the workmanship and the high quality leather used in construction. All the seams lined up perfectly and the leather was flawless. It is the best leather jacket I had seen in many years, and it seemed to exude a certain nostalgia of nobler time in America. To say that I am completely satisfied would be an understatement. Thanks again for a fine jacket. (Posted on 7/21/2010)
- Couldn't be more pleased Review by Kevin Hiatt
Thank you for a wonderful representation of American aviation history! I received a goatskin A-2 as a Christmas present from my wife (after I picked it out!) I couldn't be more pleased with its historical accuracy and overall quality. After a tremendous amount of research on original WWII contractor's jackets, I found U.S. Authentic to be exactly what I was looking for. From my research, I like the details of the Rough Wear original jackets and noticed the U.S. Authentic jackets bear these same details and overall look. The color is great. From the red/brown russet color of the lining to the perfect shade of deep, rich chocolate brown of the leather, it looks like it came from the Rough Wear factory in the mid 1940s. I was worried about the color being too dark or almost black like other jackets. For others with the same concerns, have no fear. From what I learned, the WWII seal brown was a slightly lighter shade of dark brown than modern jackets of the same color name because of the dying process used. This company really got it right! The medium brown goat skin looks (to me) exactly like the original 'seal brown' jackets. Definitely not the re-dyed almost black color. Further, the texture of the leather looks like the original goatskin jackets.
I'd also like to commend you on your excellent customer service. You took the time to answer all my knit-picking questions about color, fit/cut, sizing and original jacket contractors. It definitely finalized my decision to buy a U.S. Authentic jacket. In fact, my brother was so impressed with my A-2, he's ordering a G-1 from your company!
Keep up the good work and thanks for keeping the legacy alive for all us aviation junkies. (Posted on 7/21/2010)
- Superb customer service Review by Ryan Doerr
- I'm sorry it has taken me so long to send in my comments. As soon as I ordered my A-2 jacket the weather turned warm for several weeks. Now that we have had some cooler days and I have had a chance to wear my jacket, I can give a much more accurate evaluation. My praise as to the jacket's authenticity won't mean much, as I am no expert in this area, however I will say that the jacket I received incorporates every design feature I have been told indicates an authentic reproduction. I can give a much better evaluation to customer service and quality. My job is in quality assurance for a major electric utility. In all of my correspondence with U.S. Authentic, getting me what I wanted was the company's only concern. I ordered an A-2 jacket and a leather squadron patch. Mr. Dover suggested that before they attached the patch to the jacket, I should probably try the jacket on to make sure the fit was right. If the jacket did not fit and it had a custom patch attached, it could not be returned. I am glad he made the suggestion. The jacket I received fit exactly the way I wanted. It was made of beautifully grained horsehide. The patch was of such high quality, I decided not to have it attached to the jacket and to incorporate it into the display of the B-17 model I am building. Everyone involved worked to make sure I got the products I wanted and I do not have a single complaint. I would recommend U.S. Authentic to anyone who is interested in the quality products and services they offer. (Posted on 7/21/2010)


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Miesha Tate will help Cris Cyborg train for next opponent
Recently, Justino's manager Tito Ortiz reached out to Tate on twitter to see if she would like to work with "Cyborg."
Tito Ortiz ✔ @titoortiz
@MieshaTate we need to get u help @criscyborg get ready for her next fight. It will help you both.
Tate was quick to respond and appears to be willing to assist "Cyborg" in training for her next opponent.
A bit over a month ago, Justino offered to help Tate train for her UFC 168 bout with Ronda Rousey. Unfortunately, the timing didn't work out but apparently they will be working together in the future.
Though no fight has formally been announced, it is probable that Justino's next bout will be inside the Invicta cage. She is currently 2-0 in the promotion, winning the promotion's 145 pound title in her second bout with Marloes Coenen.


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The Aiken County Sheriff's Office have arrested an Augusta man they believe may be involved in a rash of recent automobile break-ins in Aiken and North Augusta.
Brian Scott Lowry, 42, who lives on Deans Bridge Road in Augusta, has been arrested in reference to a warrant from the Richmond County Sheriff's Office, said Sgt. Jason Feemster with the Sheriff's Office.
The arrest came after the Aiken County Sheriff's Office was investigating auto break-ins that occurred in the Woodridge Subdivision in Clearwater, according to police. During the investigation, police got a description of the suspect, and he was found by Aiken County Deputies and North Augusta Public Safety Officers behind an area convenient store, Feemster said.
He is suspected in a rash of recent car break-ins in Aiken and North Augusta, police said. At least nine vehicles were broken into in the same North Augusta subdivision on Monday night, police said.
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green living: 50/75 of 662
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Liverpool winger Raheem Sterling is hoping an FA Cup run might take him on a trip to Wembley.The 18-year-old has surprised many so far this campaign with his trickery and eye for goal, resulting in his earning a first full international cap for England under Roy Hodgson against Sweden in November.
|D. Bouzanis
|C. Byrne
|J. Grounds
|J. M'voto
|R. Wabara
|23' 48'
|J. Wesolowski
|Y. M'Changama
|L. Croft
|R. Simpson
|J. Baxter
|M. Smith
|2' 45+2' 72'
|Coach: P. Dickov
|B. Jones
|M. Škrtel
|S. Coates
|J. Robinson
|A. Wisdom
|J. Allen
|J. Henderson
|R. Sterling
|L. Suárez
|D. Sturridge
|F. Borini
|Coach: B. Rodgers
for Y. M'Changama 10'
for R. Simpson 78'
for M. Smith 84'
for F. Borini 56'
for A. Wisdom 56'
for R. Sterling 72'
|Wickham loses on Palace debut
|Guardiola: No problem with Matthaus and Effenberg comments
|Cartabia excited by Deportivo loan
|Lyon confirm Rafael deal
|Hysaj agrees deal to follow Sarri to Napoli
|Rafael says his goodbyes to Manchester United
|Dos Santos ready to get going with Galaxy
|Pochettino rejects Soldado exit talk
|Metatarsal misery for Mulumbu
|Benitez: Benzema and Bale going nowhere
|Mihajlovic: Ibrahimovic would make Milan title contenders
|Hughes not taking any risks with Bojan
|Guardiola relishing Audi Cup test
|Di Maria ´taking a step up´ - Silva
|Leicester bring in defender Benalouane
|Deulofeu doubtful for Premier League opener
|West Ham striker Valencia out for three months
|UEFA: Qarabag-Celtic to go ahead
|Palace seal Wickham swoop
|Ronaldo and Benzema to miss Audi Cup
|Marotta: Juventus could lose Pogba
|Kante completes Leicester switch
|Khedira ruled out for two months
|FA accepts Mourinho criticism of Wembley surface
|Robben rubbishes injury talk
|Marchisio expects Milan title challenge
|Rafael set for Lyon move
|Celtic ´seeking reassurances´ over Qarabag pitch
|Wenger beating Mourinho does not affect Chelsea - Zouma
|Rooney moved by Everton welcome
|Mancini not worried by lack of Inter goals
|Coloccini wants to finish career at Newcastle - McClaren
|Ramsey: Pressure to win trophies is nothing new
|Terry: Wembley defeat could be a ´blessing in disguise´
|Blatter not running for IOC re-election
|Bendtner: Wolfsburg can challenge Bayern for Bundesliga honours
|Liverpool relishing Britannia return, says Henderson
|Everton big enough to keep Stones - Martinez
|MLS Review: Fire stun Dallas as goals dry up
|New Atletico signings excite Raul Garcia
|Cahill expects Arsenal title challenge
|Jovetic happy with Inter debut
|Luis Enrique: Barca defence must improve
|Yanev calls for calm after ugly scenes in friendly
|Coppa Italia Review: Cittadella romp to victory, Brescia rely on penalties
|Arsenal have learned how to play against big teams - Ramsey
|Shawcross to visit specialist over back woe
|Fiorentina 2 Barcelona 1: Bernardeschi double sends Barca to another defeat
|Mancini hints at Melo interest
|Rodgers hails ´incredible´ Benteke strike
|Galatasary 1 Inter 0: Sneijder sinks former club
|Wenger defends Arsenal approach
|Wembley loss has no bearing on new season - Terry
|Porto cruise to friendly win over Stoke
|Mourinho denies Wenger ´snub´ suggestions
|Arsenal abandoned their philosophy to win Community Shield - Mourinho
|Mourinho throws Community Shield medal into Wembley crowd
|Swindon Town 1 Liverpool 2: Benteke nets stunner on debut
|Scottish Premiership Review: Hearts win thriller on top-flight return
|Ujah at the double as Bremen beat West Ham
|Mourinho: We were the better team
|Wenger hails defensive solidity
|Rooney returns as Villarreal spoil Ferguson´s party
|Rodriguez stunner earns Southampton draw as Caulker makes debut
|Arsenal 1 Chelsea 0: Case of 14th time lucky for Wenger against Mourinho
|Taechaubol announces Milan agreement
|Jojic fires Cologne to latest victory
|China 0 South Korea 2: Kim and Lee seal victory
|Origi getting up to speed
|Costa a doubt for start of season - Mourinho
|North Korea 2 Japan 1: Halilhodzic´s men spurn lead
|Allam brands FA ´amateurs´ as name-change row rumbles on
|Fournier ´worried´ by Lyon pre-season
|Swansea still working on Michu exit - Monk
|Neuer furious at Bayern Supercup defeat
|Wenger: Ozil signing not a mistake
|UEFA Champions League Preview: Shakhtar ready for Fenerbahce decider
|Lampard targets MLS play-offs for City
|MLS Review: Goals galore as DC United win 10-goal thriller
|Ronaldinho returns and helps Fluminense to win
|Keane: United won´t overtake Chelsea
|Casillas has the ´enthusiasm of a 20-year-old´ - Lopetegui
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|Arsenal players too interested in selfies and six-packs - Keane
|Confusion over Ibrahimovic´s PSG future
|Sporting Lisbon 2 Roma 0: Slimani, Mane inspire Portuguese hosts
|Rodgers feeling ready for new campaign
|Khedira to miss Supercoppa
|Paris Saint-Germain 2 Lyon 0: Aurier and Cavani seal more silverware
|Wolfsburg 1 Bayern Munich 1 (5-4 on penalties): Super-sub Bendtner nicks it for Pokal champions
|Lampard´s long-awaited New York City debut ends in defeat
|Casillas the spot-kick hero for Porto
|Monk bullish ahead of season opener at champions
|Marseille 2-0 Juventus: Night to forget for Serie A champions
|Swansea end pre-season with yet another draw
|HJK 0 Liverpool 2: Origi and Coutinho on target
|Juventus rocked by Khedira injury scare
|Lens and Pantilimon star as Sunderland beat Hannover
|Pardew hopeful of concluding Wickham deal
|Martinez allays Lukaku fears
|Stuttgart 4 Manchester City 2: Cause for concern for Pellegrini
|Wasteful Bournemouth held by Hoffenheim
|Jerome seals Norwich win
|Souare´s first goal ensures Palace draw
|Sinclair hits hat-trick in Villa draw
|Leicester end pre-season with thrilling Birmingham win
|Wood and Mowatt condemn Everton to friendly defeat
|Coloccini not involved as Newcastle lose to Gladbach
|Borussia Dortmund 2 Real Betis 0: Ramos scores on return from injury
|Stoke lose to Cologne on Afellay debut
|Norwich capture goalkeeper Kean
|Jovetic hits out at Pellegrini following City exit
|Jones backing new boys to spark United revival
|Scottish Premiership Review: Celtic up and running, Dundee hammer Kilmarnock
|Can keen to learn from Milner
|Immobile on the mend following friendly scare
|Sagan Tosu 1 Atletico Madrid 1 (1-4 on penalties): Simeone´s men need spot-kicks
|Cahill: Big-spending rivals will make title race tougher
|Roberto happy to play full-back for Barca
|Gestede eager to make his mark at Villa
|I want to play more and score more - Remy
|Lambert influence important, says Pulis
|Benteke a ´bargain´ buy - Rodgers
|Zola: Qatar would be ideal for Balotelli, Cassano
|Suarez: I´m not among world´s best
|PSG ready despite ´chaotic´ pre-season - Blanc
|Arsenal thumping still hurts - Fournier
|Aubameyang targets Champions League success
|Rooney set for Everton return
|Cech can match Van der Sar - Wenger
|Mourinho ponders Wenger´s losing record against him
|CBF confirm Fred failed a doping test


text:
Chad Abshire
Staff Writer
WILLIAMSON — Crime might be higher in and around Williamson, but the elevated numbers may actually be a positive thing.
Williamson Chief of Police and Mingo County Drug Task Force Commander, C.D. Rockel, presented the city's crime statistics for 2012 to the Williamson City Council during its Wednesday night meeting.
Rockel told the council that the increased crime statistics between Jan. 1, 2012, through Dec. 31, 2012, is believed to be a result of a full complement of police officers for entire year as opposed to operating at half staff for 2011.
The chief also noted that all of his officers had been assigned vehicles by way of the Ming County Comisssion, Mayor Darrin McCormick and the Williamson Council, allowing for better coverage in the city.
Lastly, he mentioned that a more aggressive approach to identifying and enforcing criminal elements and statues had been implemented.
In total, the WPD received:
• 247 criminal complaints during 2012, compared to 211 last year, roughly a 17 percent increase.
• 470 moving and non-moving violations, compared to 277 in 2011, a 70 percent increase.
• 82 arrests were made in 2012 (24 felony, 58 misdemeanor). 2011 saw 45 arrests, a 31 percent increase.
• There were 72 accident reports in 2012, an increase of 31 percent compared to the 55 in 2011.
• The WPD had five death investigations in 2012, equalling 2011's amount.
Also in 2012, there were:
• 25 assaults;
• 20 burglaries;
• 27 thefts;
• eight stolen vehicles (six recovered);
• two forgeries;
• four cases of fraud;
• one case of embezzlement;
• 20 cases of destruction of property;
• 13 drug violations
• one prostituion case;
• 19 obstructions;
• one escape;
• four weapons violations (which includes brandishing)
• six cases of public peace, public intoxication (Rockel noted that public intoxication was usually combined with another crime.)
• one sexual assault;
• one robbery
• 16 others, including child neglect, wire tapping, other larcenies, EPO violations, false reports, even trash complaints.
• 85 cases are still pending due to waiting on arrests, needing more witness information or requiring further investigation.
Rockel sid that the national average usually hovered at 50 percent on solved cases, but the WPD's percentage was at 66 percent for 2012.
The chief was also able to narrow down the most accident prone streets in Williamson: Fourth Avenue has the most accidents, followed by Second Avenue and U.S. 119.
"Not many of them are speed related, mostly just people not paying attention," Rockel said. The chief noted that the roads all see a lot of traffic and said that he wasn't sure how to prevent them from happening.
"Accidents just happen," Rockel said.


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The trysail switch allows the mainsail and trysail to share a single track, greatly reducing weight aloft. This asymmetrical switch installs above the standard system and provides a crossover for trysail cars to utilize the mainsail track.
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text:
|Off Topic Lounge All Discussions Not Related To Drumming
|Thread Tools
Pop Music in General
What are your guys thought on pop music and the
musicianship of the players today, how they should or
are approaching it, Is it a sell out to be a pop drummer,
is it overrated, under rated etc.
What have you guys got to say about?
Re: Pop Music in General
Forgettable melodies terrible songs, no guitar solos (Un cool? = can't play 'em) & my main gripe is the voices of the so-called lead singers. Hardly good enough to be doing a backing harmony.
I watched The Killers a while back to listen to the drumming.....& once the lead singer opened his mouth my gf said he makes it sound like a middle school band doing their first gigs. I agree.
"The Editors is another. Coldplay...it's a huge list...miles away from talent/quality.
Being original doesn't mean you are good/talented.
If they are good drummers, they hide it well for the money. Single strokes all the time (Moony is the only guy that could get away with that, & he certainly did:^)
If you see them play the technique sucks as if they've never had a lesson. That's what makes drummers the butt of non musician jokes.
That's showbiz $£$£$£.= con the kids.
Musically literate?
Just saying.
Ok. Now flame me...we all drummers here. That's fine.
"And he plays drums."
Re: Pop Music in General
For one thing, pop is a pretty general term. So it really depends on the act.
From what I've come to know, a pop artist's band is comprised of top notch musicians. Sure it may not be the most technically demanding gig, but it's their job to play the part tightly and precisely. Some call it selling out. I call it success. I've got the up most respect for people who are able to land a gig such as this.
On the other hand, there are pop bands who somehow make it to the mainstream through their haircuts... good for them, enjoy it while it lasts.
Re: Pop Music in General
Modern pop? Pop has always been a varied beast. There's always been some fairly soulless stuff with an emphasis on marketing. There's also always been pop music created by people who love what they do.
I find that some of the least inspiring music around has been made by schooled musicians - sessioners hired to propel a pretty or handsome face into the spotlight or to produce musak. Most times, however, if you make the effort to learn to play or sing well enough to play to audiences, then the chances are you put some passion into your music. Some may not care for your type of passion, others will.
I couldn't give a damn whether drummers plays single stroke rolls, doubles or flammadiddlyruffs. Does the drumming groove? Does it complement the song? Does it have a vibe?
Re: Pop Music in General
To be quite honest I'm not sure what pop music is today. I have always used the term to mean popular music. In my neck of the woods, I can't even find what would be considered pop music. There is no weekly top 40 like there was when I was growing up. There are so many genres of music now that didn't exist when I was young. The music industry is so over saturated with different sounds that I guess I'm not sure what pop would be. I'm not saying that is a bad thing. When I grew up in the 60's and 70's we had pretty much Rock n Roll, Country, Folk, Soul that was played on the top 40 stations. Over time other genres joined the mix so that today there are probably 10 different types or more of just Metal. Because of this I think the talent pool is much thinner and groups that cut records today would not have made it 30 years ago. Also today if you can't get a label to sign you just start your own. It's like football. The more teams they add to the league the more less talented players make teams, a thinning of the talent. Just my thoughts.
Retirement...August 21, 2015
Feel. Control the Bounce.
Re: Pop Music in General
Pop music is not supposed to be all that sophisticated. Be that as it may, a lot of those metal bands have pretty outrageous drummers: Jaska Raatikainen, Tomas Haake, The Rev. One could say "I don't like the music;" but that would be less a comment on the quality of the music and more a comment on the age of the person.
You listen to some of these artists like Jason Mraz or Katy Perry and ask, really what is there not to like. Then you have artists like Alicia Keys, John Legend or John Mayer and they are pretty good song writers. There are some great bands putting out great albums: Radiohead, Muse, Three Doors Down, The Roots. And I even like Coldplay, always did. Used to go see them when they played the clubs. I don't listen to them anymore but it's good pop. You have these prog bands like Dream Theater, Mars Volta and Porcupine Tree that have been putting out quality albums, some for two decades, and are still largely under the radar.
That might not be a popular opinion; but I really don't care.
Ken Marino Drum Teacher "It's not worth keeping score. You win some. You lose some, you let it go"
Re: Pop Music in General
I'm not sure what to consider pop these days. I just listen to music. I find kiss in the pop section at my local music store. I find led zep in the heavy metal section in some places.........uhh yeah i don't know about that one. All i know is that i'm not embarassed to play any type of music as long as i enjoy it. I even play some country from time to time.
Youtube: youtube.com/simpleplandrummer
Re: Pop Music in General
As for pop drumming, Green Day has a pop drummer who won't be putting shivers down Billy Cobham's spine any time soon http://www.take40.com/music/music-li...nt/1?t=26541.3. Still, it's a decent drum arrangement, and composing an effective drum part is a HUGE aspect of pop drumming. I think fancy drum parts are considered a bit dated and naively showoffy modern music that's not metal/jazz/world unless you have someone rare like Stewart Copeland.
Dane, I used to think of players selling out but no more. Usually we'll say someone is selling out if they shift from original music to mainstream like, say, John Wetton going from King Crimson and early UK to Asia. But he'd played some amazing things, and if he wants to make some $$, then he's earned it. (He was the most poppy writer in the early/mid 70s incarnation of KC anyway). Most pop musos are into the music they play so it's not selling out IMO - they're just lucky enough to have a popular form of bad taste :)
Re: Pop Music in General
If you listen to a lot of Bartok, Stravinsky and Elliot Carter, Heavy Metal is pop. What is pop? Is pop a genre? It only leads the way down to unanswerable questions.
Is Green Day really pop? How could Disturbed, Green Day, Brittany Spears and Hannah Montana all be pop? I guess if you listen to a lot of Bartok, they really don't sound that different. :)
Ken Marino Drum Teacher "It's not worth keeping score. You win some. You lose some, you let it go"
Re: Pop Music in General
Okay... let's just look at it this way: The Beatles started out playing pop... fortunately for the music world they moved away from the mainstream later in their career but the fact is that when their early stuff is really mostly candy-coated big dollar pop... Beethoven (since deltadrummer brought up classical) was pop... it was formulaic music composed to be good to the audience to listen to. I would say that composers like stravinsky, taichovsky, dvorak deviated from the forumlaic sound a lot and were still very successful but even chopin (whom i love btw) would have been considered pop by today's standards.
As for drumming and pop I will say that while a lot of it is not techincally sophisticated, it is not necessarily bad. A lot of "pop" bands or stars use drum machines (especially in hip-hop and rap) but when you listen to enough of it you'll find that occassionally there are truly good grooves (some you'd need 4 hands and 4 feet to play but still good). The point is that in all genres there is a lot of crap... 90% of music is crap and you'll occassionally find the other 10% that is decent. I don't necessarily like pop music as a genre but a catchy tune is a catchy tune... it sells tickets/albums and i would be thrilled to be as big of a success as the modern pop stars (even hannah montana and the like). For decades a lot of pop music has been written by a composer and performed by a star... this is not necessarily a bad thing either... the composers compose and the performers perform.
So like i said, you'll find that some pop drummers are technical and play really good fills and grooves but 90% of music will still always be crap and this is true for all genres.
ps: flammadiddlyruffs - I have to work on these :)
Re: Pop Music in General
I don't see Green day & the like as pop. Mr T.Cool is cool.
To me, seeing the early teenagers screaming & shouting at some groups at one of the open air V festivals for example... that's my idea of pop.
That's were I see the bad drummers, rubbish voices, terrible song writing, which I find pathetic & sad.
We all have our own perceptions of course.
I will ad that there's music I dislike but can appreciate it's quality & don't slag it off.
David grey, good voice, good drumming but not for me thanks. Never liked Genesis (love Yes) but never put Genesis down.
Just because I don't like particular groups/music doesn't have me putting them down calling them rubbish.
Just wanted to get that off my chest.
That is all.
.................................................. ..
"And he plays drums."
Last edited by Royal; 08-15-2009 at 09:08 AM. Reason: Spelling
Re: Pop Music in General
What do we make of this? "Metal can be thought of as pop" ... "Beethoven was pop in his day" ... "Green Day is not pop" ... "What is pop?" ... "Pop is not a genre" ...
There's plenty of music that most people would say is modern western pop. For me, there are these elements: Short. Melodic with at least one hook, usually in the chorus, repeated many times (often to a fode out). More often major than minor. Simple lyrics that most times are based on luuurve. No soloing, or a short solo after the second chorus.
Wikipedia puts it like this:
Musicologists often identify the following characteristics as typical of the pop music genre:
No accounting for taste. When I see clothes in shops I am amazed that anyone even makes most of them let alone buys them. Same with music. I like music from all genres, although only very few in opera, metal and rap.
I guess the more closely we connect with something the more discerning we become because we come across irritations that superficial connections don't uncover - like snoring and squeezing the toothpaste from the middle. For a lot of people, what is a major passion in our lives - music - is nothing more than "wallpaper" in the "rooms" of their social lives.
Royal, can you you remember the names of the particular bands?
Re: Pop Music in General
Re: Pop Music in General
Some can sing very well but still have terrible voices.
Sorry...can't list other names...too painful to watch until the end.
Did see a band..The magic numbers/ or was it the doves tour Japan.
How the ... a bunch of boring amateurs....standing there...playing terrible , forgettable songs, no dynamics, looking down at their socks.
The drummer adding nothing.....no feel...
I like a raw, exiting performance, a couple of dud notes here & there is ok with me....natural passion, feel are important.
These showers had zero that....
That's entertainment/music?
I can't post on the subject without going into a rant. (Because I'm a music lover) so I'll end this transmission. Out.
"And he plays drums."
Re: Pop Music in General
Doesn't pop stand for popular? So pop isnt really genre, but more like a pinpoint to the music that is popular at a given time. I think the mainstream is a more sutable term. Cause The mainstream thing dosent say anything about quality, its whats selling. I have fairly open mind when it comes to music. Everything from modern classical music to mainstream stuff. And what I want is music that dosent need to sell me a image ( about sex, drugs, ganster attitude etc) because the quality of the music is so good that I can create my own and interpert it as I like.
[font="Impact"] There is a difference between playing drums and hitting drums
My Kit
Re: Pop Music in General
Editors? I've not heard of them before. Do you mean this?
Not for me but I never understood why people liked music of that ilk. To me it just goes bla bla bla. However, if they're the same band as in the link, they managed to pull off a competent studio pop sound. Maybe they're better in the studio than live?
A few years ago I remember hearing a single of The Killers that I liked, but a lot of their stuff is that 80s pop rock which doesn't do it for me. Still, they clearly have it together in the studio.
So what's the trick? What is it that these bands have that lets them hit the big time while ostensibly more talented and/or creative musicians struggle?
They're cute. They write strong melodies. They're tight. They write, play and arrange with discipline and clarity of direction. How many of us are cute? How many of us eschew grunt, energy, complexity and texturing in order to focus on strength of melody? How many of us would give up the joy of eclecticism and variation in writing and playing order to make clear musical statements? How many of us skip those cool twists in arrangements in order to be accessible?
These bands would no doubt be well organised, and have worked out their interactions with the guys doing the lights and mix. Planning and hard work make a difference and it's something my old bands lacked. If only I knew 30 years ago what I know now ...
Unless you're a real pop-head there are significant musical sacrifices to be made in order to "make it". I woudn't make those sacrifices when I was young because I was into non-mainstream music. I won't make them now because I'm too old and there's no point :)
Last edited by Pollyanna; 08-16-2009 at 02:04 AM.
Re: Pop Music in General
Ken Marino Drum Teacher "It's not worth keeping score. You win some. You lose some, you let it go"
Re: Pop Music in General
The singer...ha..,is interviewed by the dj's that are old enough to be hid granddad...& he's treated like he was a genius.
Give me the real world anyday..
"And he plays drums."
Re: Pop Music in General
In the vid with the studio take it sounded like he was influenced by Jim Morrison's vocal style, and it sounded less natural for him than it was with Jimbo. He clearly didn't have the monitors on stage to help him pull off his faux-baritone voice. Funny what bad monitors can do to a singer. Plenty of decent singers have gone off key when they can't hear themselves. He pulls it off in the studio, and once people are fans they'll forgive a lot live.
Interesting point about pop, Ken. Still, what label could you apply to songs like Brian Hyland's Itsy Bitsy Teeny Weeny Yellow Polka Dot Bikini or The Archies's Sugar Sugar?
How about "commercial" instead of "pop"?
Re: Pop Music in General
I still tend to believe as I said, that Pop was just popular then it became its own sub-genre, with vary wide boundaries. And if you don't believe me check this website.
Pop, where?
Or check Billboards Pop Genre chart.
Retirement...August 21, 2015
Feel. Control the Bounce.
Re: Pop Music in General
Sure, GD, point made. Any "genre" that includes November Rain, Relax, Over The Rainbow, Bohemian Rhapsody, American Pie, Smells Like Teen Spirit, Sex Machine, You Learn and Blister in the Sun (All-Time Top Pop Singles list from GD's link) is too broad to be useful.
But the context of this thread is about commercial bands being crap.
Another thing to consider is that the recording quality was poor. If a band's focus is more on sound than energy/power/groove and songs rely on subtle nuances in the studio for their character, then a bad recording sound will kill it, especially if the vocalist - the main thing in this music - has weak foldback and doesn't have enough stage experience to compensate.
Compare the studio and live of INXS's Burn For You:
Live: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzHWcjnDFts
Studio: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTBsztbSM3U
The studio is a great piece of pop IMO but the live recording isn't too flash.
I hated playing supports for Top 40 bands in the 80s. The crowds would only turn up when the headline act was due to start, and more than once we were sabotaged by their sound crews. The crew for The Venetians left the PA howling with low end feedback for our enitre set. I guess it ensured we wouldn't upstage them - as if that would happen anyway.
There was another gig (forgot the main act) where we were given the most gruesome monitoring and we couldn't get it fixed. My toms were inaudible, my snare was normal volume and my kick sounded like the 1812 Overture!
So good to be out of that scene ...
Re: Pop Music in General
I would say that there is something that is pop, and Doggie in the Window, Sugar, Sugar, Diamond Ring, Tea for Two, [ to go back, do exemplify it. I would say there is a quality of the music that is somewhat superficial. The Beatles were 'pop,' and then they changed and took the whole 'pop' music world with them. What about Motown, What's Going On as compared to The Supremes?
Historically it was music that girls (and little kids) liked that was pop, and of course, rock and roll, which guys liked was serious, it was radical, it was revolution. So there is a certain disparagement of the term 'pop' that existed that had a deprecating sense toward young woman. This is still relevant "N' Sync pop, NIrvana 'rock.' Brittany Spears or Celine Dion, pop. Heavy metal not pop.
In the later 70s labels began to realize that if you could get girls to listen to the guys' music, you could double your audience. So Journey got a singer, Genesis became a trio and went light rock, and then your had 'hair metal,' which was about guys getting girls, cars and parties. The was really The Beatles model. They were able to go from being a boy band to a serious band, from 'pop' to 'rock.'
Doggie in the Window is really a waltz, Sugar Sugar is a rock tune and Last Train to Charleston, written by Neil Diamond, is rock and roll. You could say that is its style, and use the more 'culturally' defined term 'pop' as a genre. The way defined through wiki has more to do with these cultural realities than musical realities. What about The Dan, Peg as compared to Deacon Blues. Is Peg, pop? It was written as a single. But is is the same album.
Now the idea has changed because of the rebirth of the single download.
Ken Marino Drum Teacher "It's not worth keeping score. You win some. You lose some, you let it go"
Re: Pop Music in General
The guy/girl nexus is a big one. It happens in terms of instrumentation too. In my experience men tend to be more interested in the scientific aspect of music and women in the expressive aspects, at least expression that's not necessarily intense like blind lustfulness, fury, depressive, spiritual etc. More everyday expressiveness, I guess. Of course it's only a tendency rather than absolute, as with anything. When guys opt for this "half-@ssed" approach by being ultra-accessible and eschewing their own expression, many other guys are not impressed because it's not overtly impressive in terms of skill level Ie. science) and dynamism.
I have trouble seeing Sugar Sugar as rock. At least by today's semantics. To me, labels are about communicating and strict definitions mean less than commonly held views. Agree entirely with your point re: marketing.
If you go to a website looking for Sugar Sugar, you would definitely look under "pop" before looking for "rock". By the same token if you took leave of your senses and decided to buy Doggie In The Window you'd look under "pop"; you'd find Strauss in the "classical" section.
So the genres are really defined by common understanding and "pop" as a label has its place, even if it's as sprawling and as diverse as rock.
Talking of waltzes calls to mind an interesting offtopic aside; my Dad loves old swing music - Benny Goodman, Tommy Dorsey and ... ugh! ... Kay Kaiser . He thinks all music with an electric guitar in it is just noise. His mother loved waltzes and thought his swing music was primitive noise.
Re: Pop Music in General
Usually on these sights, I get a lot of criticism for my approach.I guess.
Ken Marino Drum Teacher "It's not worth keeping score. You win some. You lose some, you let it go"
Re: Pop Music in General
Our singer and I had a chat about this (and other things) over dinner last night and he had some interesting thoughts about it. Basically, he felt that we should choose songs whose general mood and feel resonate with us - that represent our personalities - rather than by genre. So, for instance, I wanted to drop You're So Vain because it was less rootsy than our other material (which is mostly blues, RnB, soul).
He was happy to drop it, not because of the genre, but because the sentiment was not "us" - leaning as it does towards bunny-boiler bitter and twistedness about a relationship breakdown. None of us in the band are of that ilk, and are more inclined to quietly go off and lick our wounds than get in people's faces. So our set includes upbeat ditties like Sorrow, Cry Me a River, The Thrill Is Gone, Love Me Or Leave Me which are more "Aw gee whiz" than "YOU LOUSY &*^%$!".
Re: Pop Music in General
Pitch correction and pre-recorded tracks (yes even drum loops) are the modern issues that allow pretty much anyone to be a "success" if the music Gods deem them marketable.
Does anyone in the "pop" arena even attempt to sing live any longer are is it all lip-synching (and not always in "sync")? Anyone who saw the "performance" of Mariah Carey on America's Got Talent a week or so ago or whoever sees Beyonce, etc. "perform" knows that they may as well listen to the CD. No real live singing at all.
Take a pop star like Taylor Swift, cute girl who may be able to write lyrics but cannot hold a pitch longer than 2 seconds...yet tours and plays to 10s of thousands of the traditional pop audience - screaming kids.
In my view, pop music has always been about what is marketable and what will sell. Sometimes other artists "crossover" into the pop area with a song or two and I really don't blame them for taking the money. Bands such as Greenday may occasionally cross over into pop but I don't see the Britney Spears/Taylor Swift/Ashley Simpson/Jonas Brothers crowd snapping up tickets to a Greenday concert. Maybe they will buy one song off Itunes...
As far as the drummers are concerned...some are horrible hacks, but a lot are guys/gals who found a way to make a living doing what they love. Pop music has never featured any instrumental solos (got to keep it in the time limit) and most of the time the drummer is working very hard at keeping the so called artist in time.
A few musicians will make it past the "pop" stage and become true artists (again in my opinion), Take John Mayer for example, comparing his early "pop" stuff to the stuff he does with the John Mayer Trio is a perfect example of growing as a musician.
As far as the Beatles, not sure they ever got past the pop stage...often wonder if people really love the music or is it the aura that surrounds them. Not a popular opinion I'm am sure but hey, I'm entitled to my thoughts.
Vintage Zildjian, Sabian, Yamaha Oak Customs, Anton Fig Snare
Christian Drummers Army
Re: Pop Music in General
You have a real talent for crystalizing things. Another literary gem.
Re: Pop Music in General
I missed that one. Nice :)
Ken Marino Drum Teacher "It's not worth keeping score. You win some. You lose some, you let it go"
Re: Pop Music in General
Re: Pop Music in General
Metal is the new jazz, it is in its infancy, but trust me, we're working with odd meters, exploring classical roots, unconventional song structure, playing musically and not egotistically.... metal is not pop, metalcore is, but magerine isn't butter either. Its a fine line between all the little subgenres and there is a mainstream aspect to it, as with any new genre. The underground metal scene is still learning where music came from before it decides where music is going, don't write it off yet, you'll be disappointed.
Green day is pop, that whole band is just a marketed image, there is NOTHING of substance in it, NOTHING creative, NOTHING original, NOTHING inspiring... I am really tired of whiny US kids going out and getting a few tats, and then thinking their punk singing in a fake British accent over a pop troupe. One day mr green day drummer, I will hopefully have the credibility to paste my face over yours on the zildjian poster that says "defining the bay area sound" at guitar center. If all else fails I'll paste another picture of tim alexander on top of it. Any kid with the first funky primer book can define the bay area sound by that logic, mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmcommerci alized music industry. I'll be here to defend the artistic community from frauds and whores though. I just really hope these guys don't actually call themselves serious musicians, with all the recycling going on you'd think they were with greenpeace or something.
Here's how I define pop: Anything syrupy enough to be "leaked" from speakers rather than played. Anything infuriatingly generic, bland, and of course: unreasonably popular for no musically credible reason. Damn I bet I'd be a better drummer with a D cup. Anything that is an inferior reiteration of someone elses originally good idea. (Disturbed could get a rant of its own, that one interview where the guitarist claimed that all the negative feedback towards his music was because "he wasnt afraid to use "melodies" made me choke.) Anything that makes thoughts like these go through my head:
I whole heartedly hate pop music for everything that it sounds like, and everything it is. Nothing on the top 40 charts EVER requires more than 6 months of drumset experience and familiarity with a metronome. I hate that it all sounds the same, I hate that its all the same tempo, I hate that its all the same feel, that all the lyrics mean the same thing, the fact thats its all in 3 or 4, the fact that they get awards like "Best" album or artist when it should read "most popular"
I hate that most members of the public are too dumb not to get baited by some model run through a million different effects on a soundboard, I hate how condescendingly simple it is to listen to, and how theres nothing else you can do but sit and.....endure it while it plays. I hate that amazing talents are forced into sounding identical just to make ends meet. I hate that it has forced the top quality of musicians who did not have the lifestyles to be famous into mentalities like "Well, it is kinda weird to make music that everyone who hears thinks is revolutionary, but watch the legion of travis barkers get all the recognition from the young un's"
All in all, we need pop. I wouldn't be as inspired to deviate from whats been done before and experiment in styles that are reviewed as "psychedelic-latin-blast-funk" just to see what it sounds like.
9 years of blasturbation.
Last edited by NUTHA JASON; 09-16-2009 at 09:44 PM.
Re: Pop Music in General
Here's where it all started:
another good one:
Isn't what you are talking about really progressive metal or metal jazz fusion rather than heavy metal? Not that genre labels are really that important. It's either good of it's not; and if it's good, it is probably not that easy to classify.
Ken Marino Drum Teacher "It's not worth keeping score. You win some. You lose some, you let it go"
Re: Pop Music in General
When I hear some 'pop' 'music' i cringe. Like Katy Perry, Taylor Swift, Lady Gaga...Songs are very similar, lots of silly lyrics, melodies that can be catchy but usually just annoying. And has anyone heard Lady Gaga in an interview? I know where she got her name, and as much as she says so her lyrics are not intelligent ('I want to take a ride on your disco stick'...gee, that takes a lot of thought!). I also get annoyed when other musicians (like jazz or classical musicians) put in loads and loads of time practising and not getting paid a whole lot while these pop starts playing their teenybopper music get to live the expensive life.
Also, Australian Idol (and probably the variations in other countries)...it's annoying how the judges always comment about the energy of the performer, the feeling they put in, or their passion for music, but hardly ever comment on anything musical such as timbre, pitch, rhythmic tightness etc...
rant over.
edit...the post sounds pretty negative :p there is some pop music i like, usually the earlier it is the more i like it.
Re: Pop Music in General
I don't have a problem with pop/commercial music/whatever. When I was young I had an almost identical attitude to Gusty and Ferret. It all seemed so unfair.
I spent most of the the 90s working in a scientific institution. There were senior scientists with doctorates, professorships and whatever - world authorites in their field. What they were paid was a pittance compared with many run-of-the-mill chartered accountants and lawyers.
They could complain about it but it was their choice to be scientists and not accountants or lawyers. They chose to follow their passion in a area that a lot of people were interested in.
Basically, if you do something as a job that people will do for free as a passionate interest like the arts or science, the competition for jobs is fierce; there's more people wanting to do the work than there are openings. It's supply and demand, so the best jobs give you the worst "bang for the buck" as compared with skills required.
Musos who move into the pop field may or may not gain the same pleasure in creation that uncommercial musos do, but they have different aims. They want to a Number One more than they want to make strong artistic statements. The only thing stopping brilliant musos from moving into commercial music is their own sense of priorities. If they wanted to play the game (and risk being called a sellout by peers) they could waltz into a commercial band. Many prefer to play music they love.
It sucks that the best things in life don't come easy because there's such a crowd clamouring for a slice, but that's how it is.
Re: Pop Music in General
Re: Pop Music in General
Essentially, my point with that post is that like jazz, "metal" is an umbrella genre with a million different sects under it, so it shouldn't be written off for it's mainstream facets like numetal and metalcore, which suck.
I call it tech-prog metal, that's what the other bands who are kinda out there call it. That description was what my drum teacher classified us as.
Polly, I will die a fiery death and burn forever in hell before I stop to think that any of the mainstream cardboard cutouts deserve a shred of respect. I dare blink 182, green day, evanessence or any other confused pop band to actually be creative. In the 100% chance case that they won't, I WILL push myself to be creative and move music forward to the next generation, and if it means being poor and largely unrecognized, I'll settle for knowing I actually deserve every penny I get. It doesn't matter to me that there's a ton of competition for this job, I just want to see at least a few more of the right guys get the job, and the guys who aren't up to par at least admit they're lucky to have hordes of 15 year old daddy's girls to fuel their repetition.
9 years of blasturbation.
Re: Pop Music in General
More than General, actually I'm curious to know how much pop music there really is in The Colonel?
Re: Pop Music in General
Its should be no surprise that pop music is intrinsically formula music which is born with a commercial or business objective in mind rather than a interesting musical idea.
To work off a lowest-common-denominator principle works best in these circumstances.
Something that will please everybody/Nobody will hate it. Minimize the chance of failure, eliminate risk, don't take any chances.. in other words do everything diametrically opposite to what 'music creation' itself believes in.
A middle of the road musical statement if you will. ( We all know what happens if walk in the middle of the road...you get run over )
Take someone that has commercial appeal/potential, broad-base it so that you can close as many loopholes as possible, make him/her likable/acceptable to as many people as possible, change their hairstyle and promote the heck out of them.
If you hit gold, you are the man, and if you tank.. dump em and move on to the next best thing.
Funnily enough though, sheer talent, thoughout the history of pop has often broken through these corporate confines of musical expression and shined through despite the 'ball & chains'.
As an aside, I was reading Sting's autobiography the other day and he quite clearly states that for him POLICE was a commercial vehicle that he choose to ride only to get him to a point where he could then play 'his music'.
I think you've got a real grown up head on your shoulders and musical tastes & talent to match so I'm not surprised you're gagging at a lot of whats out there.. ; )
Hang in there, Gust..
Re: Pop Music in General
Actually, I like some pop music a lot - or should I say the genre formerly known as pop? :) Now Ferret, before you think "bah humbug!" about me, remember you're talking to someone who owned 14 King Crimson albums in the 70s and now has 150 King Crimson MP3s on her hard drive.
Some commercial music is boring to me, but someone has to make music that speaks to teenyboppers and adrenaline-charged teenage boys. The kids no doubt find a lot of my music boring too. Fair enough, since music is made by people so it attracts and repels us just as we variously attract and repel others.
The main beef about pop seems to be the idea of commercially-minded cynics bastardising music for profit - barstardising that which we consider sacred. I suspect that's where you're coming from. But superficial music wouldn't be created if the demand wasn't there, if the big record companies couldn't find a way of tapping into humaity's lowest common denominator in order to make a buck.
But hey, they're businesses, and businesses are about making bucks - paying for mortgages, early retirements, private school education for the kids, overseas trips etc.
My beef's a bit different to yours - pop production. My irritation isn't aimed at the musos but the record companies. They have conditioned people's ears to expect mega production for music that doesn't warrant it (ie. not Sgt Pepper or Dark Side of the Moon). It puts bands deeply into debt (ie. under the company's control) and they polish up simple pop that should take 2 weeks to record. This, in turn, squeezes out indie bands who can't compete production-wise. Sometimes they still break through, most mostly they have to settle for niche markets to make a living. Or get a day job.
My other beef is how changes to licensing laws in my state have allowed our bars to be infested with lines of poker machines - bars that used to have live music. The poker machines pay better and the bar owners don't have to deal with rock'n'roll crowds, who tend to make a mess. Sydney's live scene is much the poorer for this, as compared with the glory days of live bands in this city during the 70s.
Edit: I posted at the same time as Aydee. It seems we're saying some similar things.
Last edited by Pollyanna; 08-21-2009 at 11:07 AM. Reason: Oops, I wrote too many "experimental"s
Re: Pop Music in General
...and forever banish the myth and the stuff they say about jazz players in hushed voices,.... at wine tastings ; )
Re: Pop Music in General
I prefer this side of KC and the Sunshine Band (below) 'cos I'm not a metal chick, but I love them in all their bizarro diversity :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uk9NfhRWNX0 (if you're impatient with this one, just skip to 3:23, settle back, and marvel at their brilliance)
PS. Aydee, maybe if you make playing BJ sound as thought it's something subversive?? Hope he doesn't read this or the cover's blown ...
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Have iPhone Hardware Problems? Running iPhone 3.0 Beta? Don't Expect Help from the Apple Store
Say you are having a hardware related issue on your iPhone, first place you would think to go is your local Apple store, right? Well not if you're running iPhone 3.0 Beta it turns out, as MacRumors forums show you will politely get rejected and denied sort of help.
TiPb has confirmed this is indeed true from speaking with a few Apple employees.
Now where does that leave someone who purchased the beta from a stranger on Graigslist? Not in a good place obviously since to get your issue taken care of or to have your phone replaced you must call a developer-only help line. Now if you are a bit more expierienced with the iPhone you can always try to downgrade back to the 2.2.1 software before going into the Apple Store but say your home button is not working, you are flat out of luck and you are now stuck with a official iPhone paper weight.
So with all that said, TiPb can not stress enough -- and we've said it many times -- do not purchase the 3.0 Beta from anyone.
This late into the beta cycle, in a few short months it will be released to the public anyway.
Have something to say about this story? Leave a comment! Need help with something else? Ask in our forums!
Reader comments
Have iPhone Hardware Problems? Running iPhone 3.0 Beta? Don't Expect Help from the Apple Store
I guess the Geniuses at the Genius Bar haven't been 3.0 trained yet. 0_o.
@sting7k: Apple gives you the same warning if you read the agreements. The difference between Apple and Windows on that count is that if you are using the 3.0 software legitimately, you will receive support from the developer support group. If you are using Win7 RC1, you are on you own period.
There are reasons that Apple doesn't publicly share the beta software with non-devs. This would be one of the top.
I use my device for personal use, with 3.0. I have acess to it through a friend, iphone dev. That said, i am fully aware of what it means, and would never take it with 3.0 installed to apple support. I would surely dowgrade to 2.2.1, something that i already did 2 times (piece of cake IMO)
You'd be surprised...
I want to know who's stupid enough to pay for a beta release, when if you just do a little googling it can be found for free, but if you must have it be sure to buy the 3.5.2 beta!
More important than that is who needs 3.0 so bad? Almost all the features coming in 3.0 can be gotten by a little pwnage, and some more that Apple will not include in 3.0
And anyone that goes looking for the 3.5.2 beta I just fabricated remember you have to soak your iphone for one hour in a Marsala marinade first.
@iRoc no one is paying for the actual beta OS itself, what people are paying for is to have their device put on some ones developer list. there are a lot of people out there who are selling spots on there dev list for $5-10. if you install the OS without being on that list you just bricked your phone.
FYI, I had three iPhone 3Gs with the 3.0 beta replaced due to hardware issues. At no time was I rejected or even questioned.
@dionte. Your answer was in the paragraph plain as day.. Now let's keep things on subject and I promise to think before I post if certain others do the same.
The fact still is, if you are not a developer do not get the update as it is not ready for public use. If one still should decide to do so ,as with jailbreaking, you are on your own. I do not fault Apple for their stance either.
I was a paid legit developer and upgraded to 3.0 - the first few betas went smoothly, but beta 4 seemed to jack up my phone - the loading bar wouldn't go anywhere and eventually, it would restart and give me the purple plug in screen. I went to the apple store and they told me the above scenario but get this - they told me that the screen turned purple because the phone wasn't activated correctly. hahaa. Anyways - I eventually had to jailbreak the thing back down to 2.2 and then re-up back to 3.0 - It took 4 or 5 times but eventually worked and am now running beta 5. Thank goodness for jb!