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|49 posts found
Hard Core Member
Joined: 2/14/11
I disagree with OP
I play Elementalist with Staff in GW2 and i trully enjoy taking my part in group as support,
OFC i cannot "stand back and support" like you do in other MMOPRGS,instead i have to be a lot more active...avoiding dmg,doing dps and supporting at the same time.
As an Elementalist i can help with healing my group or just the ones that are tanking the boss at that moment planting a water fountain under their feet to mitigate the dmg they are taking...
I can also slow mobs using freezing spells on the floor...or knoking them! I love taking my defense Golem into Battle and let it help with its Shields during battle or just using some fire & earth aoe to increase my group Dps!
There is PLENTY to do as a support in GW2...!
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Apprentice Member
Joined: 5/28/10
I think theres some confusion on the roles "support" and "dps". Every class is going to dps even if they are support. I dont think it's possible to spec 100% for support, the game isn't built that way. So just because you play support that doesn't mean you won't be doing attacks like everyone else, thats why content is easier with support, rather than with dps.
So, to go into it further, when people say support they mean traits and abilities that help boon, remove conditions, create combos, heal, or protect yourself and allies.... Rather than only spec for damage followed by more damage. If I'm just farming I'll go heavy dps, because as an engineer grenades + supply create = win everything in pve. But if I went into a dungeon with +2000 power, no toughness/vit and not using any support abilities or traits I'm going to be borderline useless with a 50 silver repair bill. gw2 is very different than other mmos in this regard but you will understand how it fits together at 80. Regardless what the masses said before release, imo the game *is different at 80 with a full traits set and exotic gear.
Novice Member
Joined: 4/30/06
Originally posted by Yamota
Yes they have. I wasn't in beta but for a brief time so I was hoping it would prove not to be the case after leveing some, but they've done away with the trinity and replaced it with an even more simple system. On top of that it isn't a very social game which is what makes an mmorpg imo. This game had some neat intentions but it failed in execution.
Novice Member
Joined: 1/06/07
Guild Wars 2 is overall a fun game, but i appreciate the structure the trinity provides, it gives everyone a roll to perform and get better at. With the trinity every player at one point will feel like the hero, and those feelings produce attachment to said charcter.
Good game, just lacking the structure i appreciate in a mmo.
Originally posted by Yamota
Ahh, the game is too subtle for you, I see. No, the support roles are there, should people decide to spec accordingly and use them. My Engineer can just run about like a psycho dropping gun turrets and hurling grenades or flame-throwing mobs, or if I want to I can use medical turrets, elixir gun and drop bandages and so forth, or do a bit of both. Other classes can do either offensive or support (or a mix of the two) if they choose to.
People not using support skills =/= the support role has been eliminated.
Advanced Member
Joined: 12/25/10
As someone who usually plays healers in most MMORPGs, I find the lack of pure support to be my biggest issue with the game so far. When it comes to group content, I find DPS to be incredibly boring. Unfortunately, if you want to be useful to your group, it seems to be either go hybrid or go home - pure support simply isn't viable.
Originally posted by Cyrael
You find DPS boring, others find exclusively playing a support class utterly boring. Sorry, but MY idea of playing a Heroic Fantasy MMO is NOT standing at the back in a fancy frock, trying not to get hit, and healing the guy over there who is having all the fun of fighting the mob, toe to toe. If you want to play a dedicated support class you'd better change games, and leave the game to people who like it.
Novice Member
Joined: 2/20/12
Originally posted by Cyrael
my ele plays almost pure support in dungeons.. the option is there and very viable just varies on class
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Novice Member
Joined: 7/25/03
The Sandbox Foundation does not exist!
in any other game, only on raids would you not attack in some form. This is no different.
i think the biggest culture shock isnt that former support players have less to do..its that former dps players have alot more to do.
if you think about the class makeup in any game it turns out like 70% dps 30% tanks and healers usually, so really they just removed that 30% crutch
i think it needs some improvements, but its certainly a good start.
I remember back in eq where a warrior had what? taunt/kick and maybe bash if they were big.
give it a chance to grow.
Joined: 2/10/05
Damage output and enemy health pools are way too big for a support-less full dps group to possibly expect to survive (at least on dungeons), you NEED support be it in the condition of buffs, conditions, combo fields on top of the basic healing and kiting if you wish to make a dungeon run spending less in repairs than you gained in loot.
Novice Member
Joined: 8/30/08
Originally posted by Yamota
What weapons are you using? I'll break down my guardian support. I'll Highlight the support focused skills for you in each.
Weapons Staff/Hammer and Scepter/Shield or Scepter/Focus and Mace.
Skill 1 - Mid ranged Light AoE Damage, nothing spectacular.
Skill 2 - Ord that does damage to enemies it passes through, can be detonated to heal allies.
Skill 3 - Places a symbol on the ground that damages enemies, gives allies swiftness and acts as a combo field.
Skill 4 - AoE heal for allies and self, AoE 3 stacks of might for allies for each pulse for a total of 12 or 15 stacks of might.
Skill 5 - Creates a line enemies can't cross. This is awsome in dungeons with corridors. We can hit you but you can't hit us.
Skill 1 - 3rd attack in the chain creates a symbol of protection
Skill 2 - AoE damage
Skill 3 - Sends out wave that immobilizes all enemies in a line it hits.
Skill 4 - Kock Back
Skill 5 - Creates a ring that foes can not cross.
Skill 1 - Long range damage
Skill 2 - Targeted AoE damage
Skill 3 - Immobolizes and makes enemy vulnerable
Skill 4 - Passes a ray over enemies and allies in front of you. Damages and Blinds enemies, gives regen and removes one condition from allies.
Skill 5 - Shield that blocks 3 attacks.
Skill 4 - Give up to 5 allies protection and damage enemies.
Skill 5 - Creates a dome that pushes back enemies and protects those inside from projectiles.
Skill 1 - 3rd attack in chain heals nearby allies.
Skill 2 - Smash a symbol into the ground that damages enemies and regens allies
Skill 3 - Surround yourself and nearby allies with a protective shield. Damagae enemies that strike protected allies. Give allies protection if not struck.
Now that is simply weapons, I haven't even gone into my support traits and utility skills. I can trait all symbols to heal allies, I can trait my virtue passives to be given to allies, I can use shouts and concecration and medetation skills to heal, buff, remove conditions.
I can support just fine without waiting on cooldowns. Though I'm not simply sitting in the back...
Now with the first 5 slots covered it seems there is a ton of support with just 2 weapon sets. We haven't gotten into utility skills, virtues or traits yet. Would you like me to break down the support possibilities there?
Novice Member
Joined: 3/31/07
Originally posted by Yamota
completely disagree. even at lvl 35 dungeons you very much need support roles.
Most memorable games: AoC(Tryanny PvP), RIFT, GW, GW2, Ragnarok Online, Aion, FFXI, FFXIV, Secret World, League of Legends (Silver II rank)
Hard Core Member
Joined: 10/02/11
The Critical Hit Pretzel!
No, they exist on here. Your mashing together cc and support though. You typicalyl don't see a 'support' role in this game providing much in terms of CC and vice versa. They can share one fo those aspects, but they often are limited with a bit longer cd.
nah i support role on my engineer all the time with explosives. I do think it's odd that they put the trait to make explosives heal players in with the alchemy tree instead of the explosives tree. would go along way to improving the skills if they switch that one thing out.
There's pleanty of healing gear all over the place even dropping off mobs.
Healing doesn't all you to do what people do in other games which is just stand there and look at bars all day tho. That's why they made healing either have to be aimed in a direction or be in an AOE because players would just abuse the gameplay by standing there like they were on their phone.
It's a good system. However I've noticed that just like in many other game titles, players all tend to want to dps instead of doing the other roles even in this game where the roles for healing or support really aren't difficult like they are in other games. The same mmo community laziness still exists.
Novice Member
Joined: 7/14/09
Originally posted by Yamota
Agree...and becomes boring and even 10x more simplified than lets say wow...that has many roles, not boring, has more than 5 attack skills ...etc...
Novice Member
Joined: 8/30/08
Originally posted by Pocahinha
This is only an "opinion" of someone that lacks understanding in the system :)
GW2 can be as simple as a WoW rotation spam if you don't understand it, but a great deal more complex if you learn it.
Apprentice Member
Joined: 7/25/03
Is it over yet...
I definitely think they left the option in play to be a support role. I can easily rig up a support role engineer. Really depends on your traits , gear and general understanding of the Combo system. The Dual Engineer support .. amazing, just amazing!
Hard Core Member
Joined: 1/04/05
Originally posted by Yamota
You couldn't be more wrong.
In fact, certain classes EXCEL at support, and are a huge benefit to have in groups. Namely:
Guardians, Necromancers, Elementalists, and Mesmers.
Every class can support, though. However, what you need to realize is that support in this game isn't as simple as 'i'm a support role, take me and win'. There are different types of support, just as there are different types of damage, and different ways to defend / build for survivability. Skill synergy is what rules this game, as opposed to blanket archetypes.
For example, when I run dungeons & tend to go w/ a conditions / well based necro build. I specialize in AoE conditions management & healing, as well as doing some decent AoE dmg. Not only do a bring a ton of AoE healing, but I also bring useful support abilities like vulnerability stacking (increases how much dmg things take), converting boons on enemies into conditions, and converting conditions on allies into boons. I also bring useful CC in the form of fears, cripple, and chills. The support isn't so powerful that my allies can just faceroll their keyboards and win, but it makes fights a lot more manageable, and gives people quite a long time to recover from bad situations or mistakes.
Another example would be anti-projectile support. Some classes (like mesmers) can toss out tons of skills & aoe that reflects projectiles back at enemies. Mesmers in particular are so good at this, that they can keep it going for almost the entire fight. However, it does absolutely nothing against melee, or explosive specced enemies. This is where synergy is really important, because every spec has a weakness, and where one person's weakness is, another person can makeup that difference. I.E. You may have a mesmer who's great at dealing w/ enemy ranged attackers, but terrible against melee. In which case, you may bring with you a thief or a guardian to occupy the melee enemies, or keep them blinded.
- Granted, most skills have some type of damage component (even if small). However there is quite a large difference between a support skill's damage, and a damage-heavy skill's damage. My warrior may throw down a 100blades for 4-8k dmg, however my necro may toss out an AoE well that only does 2-4k damage, but also heals everyone in the group for 1-2k, and makes all the enemies take 10% more damage for the next 10 seconds. The warrior's going to be the one burning down the target, while the necro is assisting across the board, giving people more chances to stay alive, as well as negating a lot of what the enemies are doing.
Originally posted by itgrowls
I see that soooo often. There's a certain type of player in MMOs who, in a group, just wants "to get their gun off and bask in the glory". It's usually THEM whining about the lack of a support class, because it means they have to start thinking. :D
Hard Core Member
Joined: 1/04/05
Originally posted by Dibdabs
They're also typically the first ones to rage quit in dungeons & sPvP.
GW has always been a game that favors more balanced setups (or group compositions). GW2 is no different in that regard. If you're going to go super glass cannon DPS (as most people tend to do), then it's extremely important that you both have someone up front taking most of the hits, but are also a good enough player to avoid getting shot at the whole fight.


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Hi everyone. I'm new here. I'm 29, married, and live in Cleveland, OH. I delivered our son at 29 weeks due to HELLP Syndrome. I never had high BP. I went to the ER with abdominal pain, was told I had extremely low platelet counts and protein in my urine, and was given a C-section two days later. The whole thing was a whirlwind of shock and horror. I had just had an ultrasound 2 days before and was told everything looked fine. My son was born IUGR weighing 1 lb 15 oz and 13.5 in long. We were in the NICU for 60 days. He is now 8 months old (5 months corrected) and so far so good. He is amazing. At first I felt so cheated by our experience, but now I just feel so lucky that he is here and doing well.
I'm posting because this coming week I have my first visit with a new OB and plan to discuss what our future holds. We're not ready to start trying again, but had hoped to try after about a year for our second (and last) child before all this happened. I'm wondering what kinds of questions I should ask the doctor? I felt like my OB did little to help us both before and after our experience, so I hope to approach this new doc with a list of questions so I can make sure we're proactive. The thought of trying again terrifies me.

subset: commoncrawl


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Palace edge out Hull; Cardiff held at home; Saunders can celebrate
Crystal Palace got the better of promotion rivals Hull City in a six-goal thriller, leaders Cardiff City were held at home and Dean Saunders finally celebrated his first win as Wolves manager.
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McFARLANE TESTS ITS ACTION FIGURE SKILLS WITH 'NAPOLEON DYNAMITE' LICENSE
Ever Take Those Toys Off Any Sweet Jumps?
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|21 posts found
Hard Core Member
Joined: 1/25/12
I'm only playing the role chosen for me. Who you supposed to be?
I have to say I am enjoying this thread - http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/366236/page/17 (and others like it).
It brings up an interesting philosophical question of what makes us play an MMORPG? Prior to GW2 we all (for the most part) has the same general view since all games were generally created the same. We cried out saying we wanted something different. Something that wasn't a WOW clone. Well it's safe to say that GW2 is NOT a WOW clone. It was hailed a success. A masterpiece. *GASP* a savior of the industry as a whole? Basic yet successful marketing tactics, from a logical standpoint it is impossible for it to be all those things... to all people.
But I noticed it started to split the "base" if we are even large enough to be called that :-) You had one camp from a high level that was/is 'bored' of the game (Im on this side - but not for the same reasons others are giving. I play every so often but not as much as at launch). And way on the otherside you have those who absolutely love this game.
What's at play here is not mechanics, systems, or game related (eh, maybe some are). But almost what we define an MMORPG should be (versus what we like to play). I dont believe GW2 is broken. I dont believe it is a bad game. I dont believe it sucks because Im not playing it. I dont believe ANet "stole" my money or "lied" to me. I got exactly what I paid for.
I do believe that GW2 is a quality MMORPG. I havent seen a game this good in a long time. What I am seeing it comes down to is what we as individual, finiky, esoteric MMORPG players that we are, like to see in a game?
Do you play for progression (not necessarily a gear grind, but the constant improvment of a character)? I do. And I didnt notice or could admit before I played GW2. But for those who dont. What is your hook for playing? And do you like GW2?
Intersting to see how the industry responds to this phenomenon as I am seeing a WOW-clone/trinity/old school crowd (ArchAge anyone?) and now this new neophyte 'something-different' crowd of which the 'different' I can't quite place my finger on other than they dont like the old :-)
What do you think?
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Advanced Member
Joined: 12/21/07
Me .. simple.
- good interesting combat
- good interesting progression
- co-op small group content
The first two points are NOT MMO specifics. The last two does not have to be, but usually are.
Hard Core Member
Joined: 1/25/12
I'm only playing the role chosen for me. Who you supposed to be?
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Agreed. Combat is my carrot. It has to be engaging in some way (since I'll be doing it alot). I found out I do like progression -- but oddly Im not a completionist which I thought would go together... go figure.
Group content is a double sword for me. I love it when it works. Everyone is together and you are taking down a big monster as a team. I hate it when I have to wait for guildies and search for people to group with, especially for content that is defined specifically for groups.
Merchant in me LOVES the AH ;-)
Novice Member
Joined: 8/22/10
GW2 is shit. Every modern MMO is shit. They are fundamentally flawed in a way that is irreconcilable with quality. What makes me play a game? Its being a good game makes me play it. I can name hundreds of good games off the top of my head. I don't need to analyze why they are good. In most cases, they are good because of technical limitations, which kept the cost and crowd small, and which reconciled them irrevocably with artistic graphics, and because of the crowd back then, which was different from what some identify with as a gamer in today's world. In fact, there is a greater problem with online games, and that is that somehow an old game is undesirable simply because it is old. What makes a good game? Being classic Everquest makes a good game. You can hardly talk about good or bad when people are playing games because they have 2s beside their names rather than 1s. What makes a good game? Unreal Tournament (Unreal DM actually, to keep more to the point) makes a good game. You want to talk about life on other planets, but you still don't know whether the earth is flat or round.
Hard Core Member
Joined: 1/25/12
I'm only playing the role chosen for me. Who you supposed to be?
Originally posted by pkpkpk
Thanks for your opinion. This isnt about if you think GW2 is shit or not. There are hundreds of threads arguing that pointless concept (everyone has a different opinion and entitled to it).
But obviously SOME enjoy GW2 and enjoy playing it. So it must mean the game isnt shit to them. Or are you saying because you believe its shit that everyone who enjoys it are enjoying shit?
I love EverQuest. Have a level 26 Vah Shir Beastlord now. Enjoying every minute (of how it is now). Agree age shouldnt be equated with quality and is a common misconception. OF course you can talk about good or bad regardless if it has a 2 or 1 or any other suffix. At the end of the day its still a game that has mechanics to perform some type of activity. The question is do you enjoy those mechanics and if not which ones do you prefer.
I have no idea of what your last sentence even means or what context it has in the question I asked.
Joined: 5/21/08
Its really tough for me to answer because I play a pretty wide variety of games all for different reasons, so Ill try and break it down into groups here:
- I enjoy aspects of sandbox games, REAL sandbox games not games that have 1 or 2 sandboxy features in the centre of a giant themepark, for the chance to shape the world and hopefully leave a permanent impact on the world for others to come across. Things like terraforming, building structures, the ability to change the overall look & feel of the world at least in some way.
- I enjoy aspects of themepark games, when done well at least, for things like an enjoyable story & lore as well as enjoyable characters. I enjoy getting to explore and become immersed in some really fantastic worls with fascinating things to see that were created by the developers. And I can have plenty of fun just kind of logging in and going for the ride for awhile without having to worry about micromanaging a ton of different things. I grew up playing single player RPGs on consoles, most of which were very themepark, and playing these games is like playing them again but with other people there too.
- In both types of games I enjoy it when there is an ability to create unique, diverse, and unexpectedly effective builds when they offer that chance. Ive always loved being able to do things my way, even if its not the norm, in order to surprise people when theyre expecting me to do / be something else. But that doesnt apply to just RPGs. In FPS games I love doing unexpected things with certain weapons and honing my skills with them to the point where I outperform everyone else using the weapons most consider "the best" because people dont expect it and have a tough time countering it. Doing what they normally do only gets them killed faster.
- I enjoy the ability to play alongside and interact with people from all over the world and making lots of new friends who I would have never spoken with otherwise. Its fun learning things from some of these people who come from all walks of life and very different circumstances then I live in. The accents are great entertainment as well.
- Im also very competetive and love a good PvP game. Its much more exciting playing against actual players who all think and react differently to situations and having to do the same myself in order to constantly change up my tactics and keep an edge over them. Good PvE can be lots of fun as well, but nothing beats hunting down and defeating another human.
- When Im not busy kicking the crap out of people as above, Im also usually a very helpful person in games. I tend to learn as much as i possibly can about the games I become involved with and always find enjoyment in helping out other players with questions and things they dont understand or teaching them how to be a more effective player. Though TBH part of this goes along with the competetive nature in me. I dont just want to be the top person, I want to have a real challenge along the way. As an example when I used to be big into FPS games and ran my clan for several years, my clan and I had a long streak in some games where there was just no decent competition. We would literally not lose a single round in battles consisting of 9+ rounds against several clans in a row. Hell we had lots of times where we wouldnt even have a death. I even had clanmates quit a fight in the middle of a tournament match and just say "This isnt even worth my time. You guys got it covered" and logout. It grew extremely boring having no real competition on a consistent basis. After awhile we started a routine where if we had a battle vs a group of decent folks with good sportsmanship and all that (not whiny raging emo kids) we would wind up spending the next several days playing with them consistently and teaching them better tactics, how to make the most of strategic points, how to counter a lot of the tactics we used ourselves, etc and wound up with some really badass competition. One of these clans even made it to the championship in a tournament against us, and was also the only clan in existence to mange to defeat us in more than 1 clan battle. Those guys along with some of my clanmats also wound up helping out when I was a ref and admin for Gamebattles and we would run a weekly training camp to introduce new players to the games and help them learn the ropes and how to become better players. It was very enjoyable and rewarding doing all of this stuff, and I find a lot of the same types of things to do in MMORPGS, especially when I wind up hooking up with guilds that are made up largely of newer players.
Advanced Member
Joined: 12/21/07
Originally posted by darkhalf357x
That is where LFD comes in. Just click a button and wait.
Apprentice Member
Joined: 11/21/11
Big world
Big group activities, especially big battles
Turn offs
Instanced content
Glorified lobby games - e.g. most themeparks once you hit endgame
Games I like
Games I didn't like
Games I liked while leveling but didn't like at endgame
Hard Core Member
Joined: 8/21/04
Logic be damned!
I love the RPG style progression of my character, be it through skills/levels/gear/talents/traits whatever.
I love group content, specifically small team though I'm a big fan of raiding too.
Interesting combat is a MUST.
GW2 is the first MMO since WoW to do combat at the right pace/speed/feel IMO.
But in the end what is really fun to me and keeps me playing is the people I am playing with.
I will go and do the same raid 4x times a week for months - if I enjoy socializing and playing with the people I am raiding with.
If I am doing nothing but PUGs and there is no real social element to it, I get bored in a week.
I also really enjoy PvP for the competitive aspects of it - especially open world like WvWvW - but I love fair/balanced instanced style PvP too - which is something I loved in WoW when I actively had time to keep up with the gear curve.
My ideal MMO though that I'd play forever?
Nothing like anything that has ever been released. Probably not even technically possible yet. One day...
I've probably been lurking for way, way too long.
Novice Member
Joined: 6/05/04
Charchter progression customization. Crafting basically anything to do with charchter developement i like to improve my toon the best way possible.
Novice Member
Joined: 7/29/11
To err is human, but to really f*ck things up you need a computer.
I like MMOs that challenge me, make me think. By challenge, I don't mean increasing the amount of DPS an enemy dishes out so I have to tank more while still applying damage and a seasoning of buffs/debuffs on top, which usually evolves into grinding for better gear, skill levels or chucking more bodies at the thing; I mean true, tactical or logistical problem-solving thought. I also like MMOs where your actions truly have meaning and an effect on the game world. I've only ever found one MMO that has this, and as that GW2 thread the OP linked mentioned in it, too much of the same thing will lead to burnout no matter how good it is. There are a couple of potential upcoming releases that might also have this, but I guess I'll just have to wait and see.
Where's the any key?
Novice Member
Joined: 9/22/11
Unique gaming experience not avabile in single player and normal multiplayer games - problem is that it is actually less and less true in mmorpg's case since they are more and more similar to lobby games with single player components.
So I don't play them lately and even when I rarely cave in to marketting and hype - I leave after days or max few weeks.
1. Feeling of fictional virtual world separated from real world and other virtual worlds
2. Synergy effect from connection of : economy, crafting, explorer, social, role-playing and combat game.
3. Ability to get attached to game long-term and having fun and progressing towards various goals-targets - does not have to be only character development.
4. Interdependability and cooperation & competition on wide-array of diffrent "levels" (NOT character levels) - something that is not possible or hard in diffrent game types
5. Fair game and same level playground that allows competition other than e-sport, twitch or pure tactics / strategy.
6. Another way of cooling off and temporary escapism after long-day other than sports, passive entertaiment (books, movies) and real-life activities (partying, dating, rl-hobbies,sex).
7. Ability to shoot fireballs, slay orcs and being fat merchant at same time :P
Sadly most of above points either don't exist in modern mmorpg's or are simplified to the point it is silly or pointless.
Novice Member
Joined: 8/22/10
Originally posted by darkhalf357x
I say I enjoy a good game. 'Mechanics' is meaningless. You say you have played Everquest, but you have not played Everquest. Play a warrior in a group on Project 1999. All you do is slash slowly with your weapon at a fixed interval for months of months of gameplay; there are no fancy abilities other than taunting. And yet there are times where if you mess up once in your routine you could bring down the ruin of an entire group or even guild. World of Warcraft has fancy abilities but no consequence, 'mechanics' but no challenge. These are ideals, not mechanics. Games made according to ideals are just made and everything accords. Games made according to mechanics are quibbled over on forums and always destined to fail. That is why I say I like good games; good games are made and everything accords. Bad games have 'mechanics' and everything fails. You can't separate things from the times. Thus all modern MMOs are shit.
Hard Core Member
Joined: 8/21/04
Logic be damned!
I don't know, in the long run I think the future is going to be games made on systems and features - not content.
If you do the systems and features right, the content creates itself (literally.)
We (many) seem stuck on the notion that this has to = players killing other players - but I'm talking about so, so much more.
I've probably been lurking for way, way too long.
Novice Member
Joined: 10/14/04
Iarð skal rifna, ok upphiminn.
I love how vague people start to get when they talk about interesting/quality combat and progression'.
I can lay out very particularly what I perceive to be the best model for me. I also know that when I do so I am going to alienate quite a large amount of people from the kind of games I am most comfortable playing and hope to play.
Fact is I very truly am an action gamer. Beyond that though I am much more so a first person type player. I need to have a strong degree of control over my character in the most direct sense. I'm not that big on brawler type games, but it's not hard at all for me to see their merits in combo systems and being able to setup attack chains in a variety of ways.
And I would much prefer seeing that in games. I want to be able to take little singular attacks that combine into different kinds. not just string single abilities together. I don't want to hit a few keys on a hotbar or only get a few core combat abilities on my mouse. I want a ystem that can take these surface-level functions and mix them for a variety of outcomes.
Just as well, the skills, gadgets, and abilities that inevitably will exist I would prefer to be modular. Basic components that dictate how the ability will behave as a whole which you can exchange to create new unique abilities or simply tweak and fine-tune the one's you like.
And progression. I hate linear progression. I can understand why so many use and value it. I can also see certain merits in how it correlates to other mechanics. I have never considered it to be an effective or sensible system though.
Which is why I have always said I prefer what I called non-linear progression. You don't just pick one thing and keep rolling to become better at it. It exists in a tree of skills that progression bleeds backwards into. This backwards progression in turn enhances the ability to utilize similar fields of skills.
You don't have an indefinite amount of progress you can make, there is inevitably a cap in how much someone can learn reasonably before it negatively impacts either what you already know or your capacity to comprehend other subjects.
But its never a hard cap. Instead when you start progressing to a certain point your ability to learn wanes. If you wish to change things, you can elect to let known abilities decay so that you can learn new skills unimpeded at the cost of things previously known.
This isn't meant to kill variety or the ability to adapt to roles, but to provide a means to keep a univoe flavor to how one approaches a role.
I also want context sensitive interactivity. A reduction of UI elements and integration into the game world so that the game is visually more seamless.
Just as well, to go with that I want a more interactive and living game world itself. Flora and fauna that exist in natural cycles that players can influence. The ability to design components of buildings and flesh out entire pieces of architecture. Then the inverse ability to break it down piece by piece. I dont' mean someone walking up with a knife and stabbing a stone wall into crumbling. Things should have some kind of value, like fortification, that gives a threshold on the kinf of force necessary to properly damage ti. That wont stop you from having the ability to chip away a castle's wall with a spoon, but it will be at a considerably reduced effectiveness when compared to someone using proper equipment.
I know what I want. and to me I would call what I just detailed to be good and interesting. But I know full well it is far and away from a universal desire.
EDIT: And PK that made exactly no amount of sense. o_O
All games have game mechanics. IT's rather a necessity to the games having any functionality or interactivity. Otherwise all you're doing is staring at a screen.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
Novice Member
Joined: 8/07/11
GW2 socialist.
For the most part, I play (and/or enjoy) MMORPGs because there are other people around. Growing up, it was tough to find anyone to play games with since I lived in a crummy rural area, and my brother preferred sports games and I didn't. Apart from a few months' fascination with 4 player Goldeneye and Mario Kart 64, my friends and relatives just weren't gamers, but I was. It's a great feeling to log into a game and know that if I so choose, I can meet someone and play with another person, regardless of the distance.
Another thing is that most MMOs last far longer than single player games. For example, did I like Skyrim? Of course. But to me, it was overrated. I only played it for less than a month, and it just seemed like a huge lonely world, so I stopped. In correlation with my first reason, I just couldn't get the ambition to log in. When I really enjoy a game, I want there to be some grind or at least the ability to play with friends, otherwise that great game I enjoy won't last half as long. I'm tired of single player games in general. I don't make a lot of money so when I pay for something I want it to keep me busy for months, not weeks. You'd think I'd like WoW then, but I know a scam when I see one. "Come back next week for the miniscule chance to actually get something from a raid, even though you put in as much effort as everyone else... that'll be $15."
With my pc down, you can imagine being forced to play mostly single player games with medium to low graphics quality or just watching Netflix is pretty bland. First world problems, I know, but those are my reasons.
Novice Member
Joined: 6/24/06
What makes you play (or enjoy) an MMORPG?
- Community
- non-instanced WORLD to explore
- TONS of quests/stories (Beyond Gather X at location Y marked on your map)
- Challenge
- Meaningful crafting
- Mechanics, mechanics, mechanics...over graphics
- Did I mention community?
Hard Core Member
Joined: 1/04/05
Originally posted by darkhalf357x
Good topic.
Personally I enjoy GW2 for the combat, and the exploration. I also like the lore they created with the universe, but I think by and large they failed to properly represent that aspect of the game. The general game world is great, but (for whatever reason) they apparently didn't have their primary writing team working on the personal story (they were mostly there in an editorial sense). The results being that much of the personal story sucks.
As for the division of players, it really does bring up an interesting conundrum. MMOs, by their nature, require a large amount of players in order to function properly. Take away that and these games suck, period. However, as people get increasingly picky about what they want from an MMO, and these people get more and more divided as to what they are being picky about, is that really as possible as it used to be?
In the past, the 'hayday' of the MMO genre, people put up w/ a lot more crap than they do now. MMOs were new, and exciting, and just the concept of playing w/ 1000s of other people at the same time! was more than enough to keep people interested. Now? People don't really care about that anymore. It's a requirement, not a selling point.
Hard Core Member
Joined: 1/04/05
Originally posted by BadSpock
This is what I also see happening.
I think the whole concept of Themepark vs. Sandbox is going to slowly die, and be replaced with a re-visiting of focus on the game itself. As you say, a reborn focus on gaming systems & mechanics, instead of content & story. What this means for MMORPGs will be interesting, though, as RPGs have nearly always been story-driven. It seems more likely that we'll have more MMOs of other types and subgenres.
The challenging part will be in getting the average gamer's mentallity to change in a way that allows such a game to be possible. Which is why I'm more & more starting to think that the next big leap in MMO gaming may not even be from one of these AAA games, but possibly even from an indie developer. It's much easier to give a game a chance when you don't know anything about it, and never saw it coming.
I think the technology for self-generating content is there, but not in the way most people want. At the end of the day a video game is still a video game, and I think a lot of gamers have forgotten that. The sooner people stop treating games like movies, the sooner we can start getting more interesting games.
Hard Core Member
Joined: 1/25/12
I'm only playing the role chosen for me. Who you supposed to be?
Realized I didnt answer my own question LOL :-)
Here is what I learned about what I liked in MMOs from playing GW2...
Like most, Combat is number 1. Get this wrong in my eyes and I cant play the game no matter how good I think it is. Its more of an art than a science. Has to have the right feel and present the appropiate challenge (which may entail other system dependencies like stat balance, etc). Give me some animations. give the execution a tactile feel. If I use HAMMER OF AWESOMENESS I want to feel that as opposed to seeing floating numbers (which I like as well). I grew up with turn-based combat and thought it was the SHIT! So perhaps I am biased -- but hotkey / tab combat can work for me. WoW implemented this the best for me. (I started WoW Sept 10th 2012 ). Hotbar based. It was quick can a sense of action (though it wasn't really there). This was a big eye opener for me.
Challenge. I need a good challenge. Even if its turn-based I need to be able to die unless I pick right. WoW lacked to me was challenge. All the confrontations felt easy.
I was all for the action combat. Finally a skyrim like MMO where surviving a fight was based on what I did versus what I had. This is where my brain fails. In RPG mode I want to take things slow and evaluate my tactics. I like to turn on auto attack then maybe even read up on a few skills to see which one I would like to use. I found that I like that non-immediate approach to fighting. I would formulate tactics. DODGE. and as I would execute. SHIT I NEED HEALTH. Now Im dead.
Game world. I like an expansive world but explorable. I love to find hidden items, treasures, caves, what have you. If there are enemies and a mini boss inside all the better. Think we pretty much all want that. no-brainer.
Quests. From playing GW2 I found out I have to have quests. Not only do I have to have them but I have to have them implemented in a certain way. I dont like the old way of going to a question mark. Getting a quest. Going out somewhere doing something. coming back. You know the deal. And what I dont like about it is its linear fashion. It strings you along a path and then I feel like the game is playing me. No point in reading the quest because if I dont do it I cant progress. This is what killed WoW for me. Here I was waiting for GW2 with its quest-less hubs and dynamic events. And they were AWESOME. But the quests (Hearts, DEs, etc) were not in depth enough for me to keep going. I know some DEs have long chains. What I learned is I like 'EPIC' quests. Give me a quest chain that takes me across the world to get that one item i dont even know why I need. To me its the journey I enjoy anyway. Then give me a bunch of little side quests that award me experience as I do that 'EPIC' quest. This way if I get bored moving forward I can do other things and still gain experience. Then shower me with a ton of both. I like looking at a shopping list of quests I found out. I enjoy it. Working to pick these off is what makes me log in everyday. EverQuest (started on Sept 17th 2012) does this wonderfully. I never knew I was a quest guy until GW2 nearly took them away.
Progression. I like my character to grow in strength, valor, and charisma as I go on my journey to where ever. Part of the fun to me is looking back at where I started and seeing where I have ended up... reviewing my accomplishments. its that 'game' portion of MMOs that I like. Give me a ton of loot and I can take it from there.
Housing. I need someplace to put all my loot :-) I like hanging up items I have won or been awarded as I adventure. Almost like a museum especially since I dont really 'live' there ;-)
Auction House. As I said before I'm a merchant at heart. If I cant use it I like to sell it. Part of the fun is to see how much of a price increase I can get away with. I like seeing my coin grow. never know when I might need it.
Grouping. I put this here sparringly as I have a love / hate relationship with it as well as being new to it. What I have experienced (grouping with guildmates) definitely increases the fun of the game. Its the coordination and availability I dont like so much. I hate recieving a quest or finding a dungeon only to be told you cant enter unless you have 5 people. But my guildies arent available, or they are doing something else. Sorry. 5 man enter. bah! What I would prefer is to have the content available to anyone. If I'm crazy enough to do 5-man content let me commit suicide. At least I would enjoy it. Also allows you to outlevel the content and do it on your own (if it came to that - would prefer to do it with others but...). I also put grouping here because of raiding. Never done it before, but MAN does it sound FUN! I see these huge 3-screen high monsters, 30-50 people standing trying to bring it down. Reminds me of king kong. The challenge? Does your team have what it takes to survive? to win? AND there is exclusive colored loot? I'm in. Patient enough to wait to get my character to max level so I can learn better tactics as I go.
Put that together. Mix it up with a great story. Add two layers of polish. Glaze with a customizeable interface and I will throw money at you.
Will I ever "play" this "MMO"? Ah, I dont really care. I have too much fun playing what's new to find out :-)


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Thanks for sharing the picture Jen - he is absolutely adorable, and he can really rock an SK onesie!!
He's adorable, Jen!
I could almost smell that wonderful new baby smell. Yummy.
...I just flashed on a mental pic of myself in a onesie, now I'm off to find a pickle fork to stab my mind's eye out...If only we ALL looked so good in clothes like that!
Oh my lord, is he cute or what!? What a doll.


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Following a summary of the Authority's annual audit, which received a good report, Executive Director Kathyjo Gordon pointed out that her office has been reorganized and the plan is to continue that reorganization in all areas.
"We have got what the auditors need down to a science. It's no longer a stressful process," she stated.
The next item on the agenda was the Authority's strategic planning session that took place Jan. 30. Denise Brookins, with the Middle Georgia Regional Commission, brought a summary of the session put together by the MGRC, which included members' feedback and ideas. The summary was distributed to the members.
Gordon said the plan is a guide to use to make sure the Authority meets its goals.
Authority member T.J. Heath asked Brookins for a good way to be sure they stay on track, and she suggested creating a document to use as a checklist.
For the full story, pick up a copy of this week's newspaper or subscribe to our e-Edition at http://ee.jcnews.com.


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Find the perfect hotel in Pocasset using our hotel guide provided below. Find discounted hotel accommodations in or close to Pocasset, MA for your business or personal leisure travel. We show the best Pocasset Massachusetts hotel rooms. Review the Pocasset hotel list below to find the perfect lodging. We also have a map of the Pocasset hotels. Coordinating a group? Get Pocasset Group Hotel RatesThe Pocasset center is approximately 3 miles from Wings Neck Lighthouse and 3 miles from National Marine Life Center.
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Picturesque Inn nestled on the shores of Lake Placid. Adirondack ambiance surrounds you in our comfortably appointed rooms, kitchenettes, suites & cottages. Enjoy our outdoor pool, canoes, picnic tables and Adirondack chairs for lounging by the Lake.
August Lodge is a 25 suite, two story timber frame hotel, offering an authentic country experience in beautiful, rural surroundings. Our Lodge welcomes you!
"Your spotless, all seasons motel for couples and families!" Situated in the beautiful Olympic Village of Lake Placid, Town & Country Motor Inn offers resort living in the heart of the magnificent Adirondacks. Perfect for any ski or golf vacations!
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The Antlers High School Business Professionals of America (BPA) members recently attended the 2012 BPA State Leadership Conference March 6th & 7th at OSU-IT. Business Professionals of America members are provided an opportunity for the development of leadership skills, personal and professional growth, and career-related competencies. The state leadership conference (SLC) is the highlight of the year and helps the more than 5,000 members across the state accomplish these objectives. Over 2,400 high school, middle school, and post secondary students attended the 2012 State Leadership Conference. Payton Gentry, a junior at AHS, placed 4th in the competition in Prepared Speech.
[1] http://www.theantlersamerican.com/sites/default/files/Antlers High BPA.jpg


text: I just finished a re-read of 'salem's Lot. Loved it! Next, I'm going to re-read Blaze. I read this when it was first released, but I couldn't tell you what it was really about. I seem to have very little memory of it. Not sure why that is, though. I think it was okay the first time, so I am hoping I really like it this time! A lot of Sai King's books seem to be better for a lot of people the second time around.


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Resources for Faculty
This page is intended to be a clearinghouse--links to all the resources you need without having to search for them. Please be sure to email me your suggestions for additions!--Julie
General Resources:
ADP (payroll, sick leave, and benefits as of July 2009)
Arts & Sciences / Faculty Handbook
Calendar Pointer / Term Schedule
Dynamic Bulletin
Policies and Procedures
SIS Department Directory
SIS Department Minutes
Current SPSU Catalog (in the navigation on the left)
Older SPSU Catalogs (1998-99 through 2008-2009)
University Committee, Senate, and General Faculty Meeting Minutes (this is up-to-date; older stuff is in the Faculty Minutes Archive)
USG Academic Affairs Handbook
USG Policy Manual of the Board of Regents (USG P&Ps)
Who to ask? (pdf list of names and contact info)
Teaching / Course Administration:
Banner Web (turn in engagement reports, grades; get your rosters . . . )
Department Book Orders
Department Directory
Coordinators (lead faculty members for majors, minors, certificates, and concentrations)
Grade Change Forms (available in the department only)
Graduating Seniors (pdf of Steve's email on how to know who they are--and thus which grades have to be in early)
Incomplete Form (pdf)
Individual Course Assessment (ICA)
Lab Information
Lab Schedule
Learning Outcomes
Syllabus Archive
Syllabus Guide
Video Collection Index
WebCT/Vista Access
Withdrawal Information and Forms
Relevant P&PS:
304.0 Course Objectives, Grading, and Evaluation of Students' Performance (03/94)
304.5 Grade Appeals for Courses (09/02)
455.0 Student Administrative Withdrawals (03/02)
460.0 Disabled Students (04/97)
Individual Course Assessment (ICA)
Learning Outcomes
Current SPSU Catalog (in the navigation on the left)--for course descriptions
Campus Assessment Resources:
Advising Check-Sheets:
Core Worksheet (pdf)
International Studies ( core / major / concentration descriptions)
Political Science ( core & major )
Psychology ( core / major incl. tracks )
Which language course to start with? L2 Advising Guide
Course Rotation Pages:
International Studies
Political Science
Other Resources:
Advising Procedure
Banner Advisor PDF Guide (pdf)
Core Worksheet (pdf)
Dynamic Bulletin
E-core registration info
Language Policy for IS majors who are international students
Two-Year Plan Form
Web Reports (Banner Advisor)--campus access; use Hornet Connect to access from off campus
Relevant P&PS:
308.0 Academic Advising (08/02)
Department Information:
Department Directory
Library Acquisitions
Programs Page (majors, minors, certificates, lecture series, study abroad)
Meeting Minutes
Department Summer Teaching Policy
University Summer Pay Information
Promotion and Tenure; Reappointment; Evaluation of Faculty:
A&S Faculty Evaluation Page (forms!)
Arts and Sciences Promotion and Tenure Page
Academic Affairs Reappointment Page (forms!)
Academic Affairs Promotion and Tenure Page (forms!)
Recognize a colleague doing a great job: Outstanding Faculty Nomination Form: (Word)
Relevant P&PS:
803.0 Reappointment of Untenured Faculty Members
803.01 Employment of Temporary Faculty
803.0202 Graduate Assistantship Administration
803.03 Reassigned Time for Administrative Responsibilities
803.05 Employment of Part-Time Faculty
803.06 Resignation, Termination, and Dismissal of Faculty
803.07 Evaluation of Faculty
803.0701 Student Evaluation of Faculty
803.075 Faculty Activities
803.078 Faculty Resume Preparation
803.09 Faculty Promotion and Tenure
803.0901 Granting of Probationary Credit Toward Tenure
803.0904 Pre-Tenure Review
803.0905 Post-Tenure Review
Federal per diem rates--for out of state travel
Travel request and expense forms--scroll down to the bottom AND check the link on the left
State travel rules and per diem (meals)
Relevant P&PS:
706.0 Travel Regulations
Technical Resources:
Banner Web
Buy Software for Home Use
Campus Directory--look up contact info for faculty, staff, or students
DoIT Services for Faculty
Dynamic Bulletin
Electronic Account Management--your campus password, "away" message for email
Hornet Connect--off-campus access; does NOT work with Firefox!
HR Self-Service for pay stubs, etc. BEFORE July 2009
ADP (payroll, sick leave, and benefits as of July 2009)
Shortel Guide (pdf)
Zimbra (campus email and calendar system)
Web Reports--campus access
Submit a Work Order
Visual Identity--official SPSU logo, PowerPoint templates, etc.
Last updated:
2010-04-30 13:53
Please contact the webmaster if you find problems or have suggestions for this page.


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Please visit Tentmaker Resources Tentmaker on YouTube
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Well, I really liked your account on the creation of the KJV. Very well written!
As far as reading it: I don't. I basically think, after learning about the history of it, as garbage. Perhaps beautifully written garbage, but garbage nonetheless.
As far as Hebrew and Greek, I wouldn't be one to consult on most of it. There's a lot more people on here who have been taught/taught themselves on these languages. God bless you in your search into Scriptures!
Welcome to the Tent, Dennis Blessings....
Hi Dennis,There is no game afoot.One Truth, One Spirit you know that.
Present the Word as the Spirit leads and you will meet your brothers in Christ.
Quote from: Tim B on August 10, 2009, 12:53:06 AMWell, I really liked your account on the creation of the KJV. Very well written! Thanks, Tim for the compliment! It's much appreciated.QuoteAs far as reading it: I don't. I basically think, after learning about the history of it, as garbage. Perhaps beautifully written garbage, but garbage nonetheless. For the longest time I used the Amplified Bible, but still found myself quoting the KJV, with explanations, as I learned why this was a bad word choice, etc. And that's because the English does flow so very well with the KJV, (like with I Cor 13). And it should! After all it took them 117 years to 'get it right'! But even the Amplified proved inadequate after a while.That was when I found the Concordant Literal Version or CLV. An amazing translation, even if it's not 'good English', for keeping the Greek aorist verb tense alive. I never realized how important that would be to understanding. And of course 'aion' is 'eon' and 'Gehenna' is well, 'Gehenna' etc.I highly recommend it. And it sure is fun to read from when I meet with the ecclesia and someone asks, "Does anyone have a different translation?" QuoteAs far as Hebrew and Greek, I wouldn't be one to consult on most of it. There's a lot more people on here who have been taught/taught themselves on these languages. God bless you in your search into Scriptures! Awwww, I'm sure we could have some fun, Tim! 'Cause I'm not looking for a scholar, just someone to share idea's with.What if I asked you real nice like to share with me what you your thoughts are on Genesis 1-3?For example I would imagine you've asked yourself questions like these:Why two trees??And why create the Tree of Life at all if Elohim already knew, before He created them, that He was going to have to banish them from eating it?Why doesn't His foreknowledge of their turning make The Tree of Life a superfulous creation, at best and a deception at worst?And why does The Tree of life return in The New Heaven and The New Earth (The New Universe) where all things are reconciled and restored to Jehovah?Did The Adam have sex before the turning?If not, then why not?If so, then why didn't Ishsha get pregnant before the expulsion?And how long were they in the Garden?? Thirty minutes as Saint Augustine declared? Or longer?Why did Elohim have do things this way, i.e. create a uniquely named tree whose fruit He had to forbid them from eating?Was something else supposed to happen, for them being 'set up', that didn't happen?Why did the serpent's temptation work?Was the serpent telling the truth in response to Ishsha's answer to his question, or lying?Why does Paul insist Eve was the one responsible for the turning?And what did Paul mean in that weird verse he wrote to Timothy about a woman being 'saved in childbirth'?Why did Elohim have to create Ishsha by taking a 'rib' from Ish?And why didn't Elohim have to breathe His Breath into her?So, Tim, are you even a bit tempted now to tell me what you've secretly and quietly concluded about Genesis 1-3?'Cause I know you and every other human who has read The Words, has asked these questions, or one's like it And isn't it a truth that everyone's answers are as different as we are?Which leads me to ask: Do you think it's even possible for us to know the truthful answers to these questions?I can ask them, which means I'm sentient, like you, but, is there, in truth, an understanding that makes sense even as it answers all the questions I can ask, without contradiction?If so, then shouldn't we be trying to understand, till we do?And if not, then why did Elohim go through the trouble of seeing to it that we have this account of the begining of the things we know?Be good, Tim!It's what you were created to be!Dennis!
If you like; I can share with you the name of a teacher that the Lord has brought to my life.
I stumble when I speak of my own accord.
Also, I did not name myself.Beloved servant is the English translation of my actual name.
Hey Dennis, I actually do enjoy the Concordant Literal Version as well. I tend to trust the CLV, Rotherham's Emphasized Bible (I've got this one on my iPod Touch ), and Young's Literal Translation the most, for accuracy. Rotherham's Emphasized uses age-lasting/age-abiding rather than eternal, and so does Young's Literal (which is why I like that one too). Rotherham's also correctly translates Matthews 25:46 as "age-lasting correction" as opposed to "eternal punishment". Over all, these three tend to be, in general, much more accurate than other translations.
As for your questions, I would enjoy looking into answering some of them. I'd also need to read Genesis 1-3. I haven't read that all the way through in quite a while. However, I'm not sure how soon I'll be getting back to ya, as I can be kind of lazy, and more importantly I'm leaving for my vacation today and may not have internet access (*sniffle*).Love be with ya!
Yes, the Lord provided Aaron but Moses paid a price for it.Here is a link: www.kingdombiblestudies.org
Hi Dennis. Over on the evangelical universalist site, there is one who has stated that there is some internal evidence that suggests that Genesis 1-3 are not literal, which I find very interesting.
Quote from: Doc on August 11, 2009, 02:36:55 AMHi Dennis. Over on the evangelical universalist site, there is one who has stated that there is some internal evidence that suggests that Genesis 1-3 are not literal, which I find very interesting.Honestly, I wouldn't mind if Genesis wasn't to be taken literally. It might in fact, better harmonize it with possible scientific discoveries. Do you have a link to the thread, Doc?
"...the Bible is to be taken figuratively specifically with respect to the creation of Adam and Eve."
What is literal?Literal the way it's translated or the way the ancient texts describe things?IMO Genesis' "days" could very well be the same type of translation error as aionos. But in reverse. And that's just one thing...
Thanks Doc for the links!I skimmed through them, he is quite thorough and quite verbose, but he isn't saying anything new- even as his extensive bibliography at the end of the article shows.He has chosen to believe that:Quote"...the Bible is to be taken figuratively specifically with respect to the creation of Adam and Eve."Which means that he likely takes most everything else in The Words 'literally' because 'literally' is the antonym of 'figuratively'.And so I would ask why does he want to do this?Not because I'm necessarily interested in his answer, but to illustrate that because he has, in his thinking, chosen to isolate the creation account of The Adam from the rest of The Words, he likely has an ulterior motive.That is not a bad thing, necessarily, if he can own-up to why he wants to believe this and if he is in tune enough with his own thoughts to grasp how important it is for humans to be able to understand why we want to believe what we do.For I have found that this kind of honesty will take a human far in grasping truth.He does seem to believe that The Words are inspired by Jehovah. However, his isolating out the creation account to be interpreted differently from the rest of what Moses compiled is the same as saying that Jehovah must have meant for the human who wrote the creation account to write it figuratively.And from that I would have to ask why would Jehovah want/need to do this given that the very straightforward language of the account parallels the rest of the literal history in Genesis?Besides, as I said, Jesus refrenced Genesis, all of it, as if were an accurate historical account of real time-events involving real time humans.And that is proof enough for me to choose to believe that all of Genesis should be taken literally, despite the serious problems caused in our thinking for the conclusion that Jehovah knew The Adam was going to turn before He created them.And it's likely, given the history I am familiar with, that the speculative answers he would give, in support of his conclusion and in answer to my question, would only lead to more arguments, instead of correct conclusions.So, Doc, I ask you, "Is there an understanding of Genesis that answers more questions than it raises? An understanding that is simple and doesn't require pages and pages of words to explain?"What do you think?Be good!Dennis!P.S. I've been away for the last 5 days and that is why this reply was slow in comming.
I don't really know the answer to your question.
I would bet though that James G. would say that a non-literal interpretation does answer more questions than it raises, because as I believe he points out, there are significant problems with a literal interpretation. My guess is that this is his motive for believing what he does.
I do think that we tend to oversimplify some portions of the scripture rather than the opposite. I would also say that any explanation of scripture that goes against the mainstream view is necessarily going to require pages of explanation.
I forget what we were talking about now.
I really had just meant to throw that in there to add to the discussion; I haven't looked into it enough personally to have come to a conclusion one way or another about it.
Anyway, I have come to view the scripture as containing spiritual truths that are mainly independent of their historicity. In other words, the truths God intended to communicate through Genesis are not dependent on it being a literally understood historical account, and some of it may make more sense in the big picture, or at least correlate better with other things (Wow! You just annotated my point!Ed.) if we do not hold dogmatically to literal interpretations. I believe that was my only point.


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Quick Links
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BR10508 In Stock
This red beaded friendship bracelet is a great addition to our bracelet collection. Small 3cm beads are evenly spaced around the red rope bracelet and can be easily adjusted anywhere between 7 to 9 inches, allowing it to be an ideal gift for any of your friends. The bracelet weighs 4.6 grams and can be matched with our other adjustable friendship bracelets as well!
•Red Beaded Friendship Bracelet
• Made with .925 Sterling Silver
• Fits Between 7 and 9 Inch Wrists
Eve's Addiction.com wants you to be a happy customer. We want you to be completely satisfied with the sterling silver jewelry that you receive from us, as we only sell high quality silver and cubic zirconia cz jewelry. We do understand that you may not like your purchase for some reason.
You may return or exchange your jewelry within 60 days of purchase if you are not satisfied with it. The jewelry must be returned in its original condition for a refund or exchange. Engraved, personalized, photo, monogram, name and initial, chocolate and clearance items are not returnable or exchangeable.


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Midwest Living Review
The Dayton Institute of Art goes on and on. And on. In the basement, low-lit African artifacts, fragile Japanese manga and ancient Tibetan earthenware occupy endless silent rooms. The art may not feature familiar names, but it's fascinating for its age alone; some pieces date back thousands of years. On the main floor, an expansive collection of European and American art takes center stage. Regal rooms painted in deep shades of green and yellow are packed with bare-breasted women of the medieval and Renaissance periods. On the other side of the museum, paintings by Edward Hopper and Andrew Wyeth hallmark galleries devoted to contemporary art, American work after 1945 and early-20th-century modernism. Even the spaces between the galleries are beautiful. In alcoves, tall wooden doors swing out onto the Italian cloister, an open courtyard with a fountain, benches and meditative sculptures. A glass-roofed Gothic cloister is home to monthly live jazz music from March to November.