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As you can tell by my screen name I work in law enforcement, I am a tactical officer and work in a street crimes unit. Jan 2013 I got a new partner who was a female. She is married with children as well and we were just that work partners. March 2013 my partner went on light duty due to a pregnancy.
My immediate supervisor a sgt was supposedly my best friend. However that was not the case. Since he knew me and my wife he had no problem contacting her since I trusted them both. Well long story short he convinced my wife I was cheating with my partner and they "plotted to get even". In March my wife started turning cold and would not talk to me by April they had sex several times. May of that year I was seriously injured when thrown through a plate glass window and was rushed to the hospital where I was in emergency surgery for three hours. No one could find my wife and miraculously my sgt was not working that day.
Well the next day my wife comes to the hospital out kids and is all apologetic about how she was visiting her grandmother who lives several hours away and had tried to contact me but her phone was dead.
You all know what happened next. She becomes the model wife and loves me like crazy. Well I managed to get all of the texts and emails and all the garbage they spewed to one another about me and how I was the problem.
I sent everything to the IA division since my sgt used work information, computers and violated numerous policies involving the treatment of subordinates. I sent my wife a certified letter containing all of the documentation I had gotten as well as proof I had not done anything the sgt had said I did. Also in her letter was divorce papers.
Now she has told me everything and says she loves me and I'm her soulmate. BS I say. She says he had her convinced I was cheating and he was always saying I was out banging my partner when I was supposed to be working OT. She says she only did it to get even for my "cheating".
I told my wife it doesn't matter anymore we are done. The problem is I love this woman more than anything She is and has been since the moment I saw her the most important thing in my life. I adore and love my children but I will never survive without my wife.
What can I do now? I'm sorry for he length of his but I jut couldn't stop.
Gently, I have an overarching question: Is your wife really so weak and shallow to give in the kind of pressure you described? Is this consistent with her character and history?
I am asking this to make sure that you think hard about whether there is something else that you are not being told.
[This message edited by frankier at 10:46 AM, March 27th (Thursday)]
Been three months into post fair territory and having filed for divorce today I can tell you you can survive without your wife. One breath at a time that's all you have to worry about one breath at a time.
Post here and read here often there is a lot of great advice and great information to help through the healing process but it is a process you have to go through it.
In regards to your marriage if there's any chance of saving it any chance at reconciliation my vote chase it. There are plenty of resources on this website that will help walk you through how to rebuild your marriage.
[This message edited by twisted at 1:52 PM, March 27th (Thursday)]
If you are really done, it's ok. She risked this when she betrayed you; she could have discussed your superior's insinuations with you instead of accepting them. But if you can't imagine life without her, you can put things on pause while you figure out if you are willing to try with her.
It is a big risk to extend a second chance to someone but also hard to walk away when your heart isn't in it, so long as she is remorseful.
I know none of this is really helpful; you are stuck between a rock and a hard place, and the only one on the ground. But you've been heard.
Look, I believe in reconciliation, so that is my bias. I also think that no one should make any decisions for up to a year after dday. Get some MC. . .you have kids, right? What your wife and your friend did (whether he was manipulative or not) was reprehensible, but this site is full of reprehensible stories. Some of us find our way back to each other -- some of us even end up with better marriages.
I know that sounds crazy, and I know there is a lot of ego involved. I don't know if your wife is a good or a bad person, or if she was played or not. What matters is she was broken, and she couldn't or didn't tell you.
Don't think of the affair as a trip to Disney -- they both felt like crap about themselves or they wouldn't have done it. But, it wasn't ok for them to take you (and the OP if there is one) down with them. Don't let it take the kids down, if you can avoid it-- if your marriage can be saved.
I hope for peace, clarity and strength for you.
Right now you are mad as hell and you deserve to be and you deserve for your wife to start giving you intelligent answers as to what in the hell was she really thinking.
It is hard to say whether or not she had this affair because she was just told that you were messing around. I would think some kind of proof would have been needed.
Another question for your wife is, why didn't she come to you with this information before having the so-called revenge affair.
It does seem to me that she is using this as an excuse for the affair. And she does have some adult explaining to do.
If you really do love her more than anything in the world, you should try and get through this. Have you thought of any kind of MC to talk this over with.
It sounds like your wife is truly sorry and remorseful, which has become somewhat unusual anymore.
I am hoping that this Sqt. no longer has a job there. And never again works in law enforcement.
I may be way off the mark here but I can't help wondering if your 'affair' was a story they fabricated just in case they got caught.
It does seem to me that she is using this as an excuse for the affair.
I agree with Craigs comment. It could be she wanted to screw around with the OM; have a brief exciting affair, and when she got caught she had this excuse all prepared and ready.
She didn't do any investigation to support her suspicions; just took his word and cheated? Don't believe it. She wanted her romantic/sexual fantasy and now she's trying to wriggle out of responsibility.
I would give her the scare of her life and file for divorce. You can always retract at some later date; preferably after you've made her sign some kind of agreement signing over marital assets to you.
Since January 2013 I has suspected my wife of 13 years had been cheating.
She says he had her convinced I was cheating and he was always saying I was out banging my partner
but I will never survive without my wife.
Have you been to MC? When did the affair end? Is there NC in place? Are you separated?
"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson
"...I will never survive without my wife."
You may believe this-- certainly, many BS feel this very thing at first. But the truth is, you can not survive WITH your wife until she becomes a radically better spouse. A woman who zealously protects YOUR trust and FIGHTS any and all enemies of your marriage.
She is not yet that person- and both you and she must acknowledge this.
She needs to PROVE she can become a woman WORTHY of you, and you need to KNOW you are WORTHY of that. Absent both of these conditions, you will not be able to fully re-establish trust or respect, and any future reconciliation will ultimately be doomed by that.
No, Lord, she said.
And Jesus said, Neither do I. Go and sin no more.
Had he bothered to do ANY investigating, he would have discovered he was wrong. I have always been completely transparent, I have excellent boundaries, and absolutely adored him.
The thing is...he didn't bother to dig for any info. He just had a "feeling" that I was cheating.
He did not dig for info. He did not ask me if I was cheating. He did not appear to be upset or traumatized in any way that his wife was cheating on him.
Why? Because he knew if he looked he would have found nothing. Therefore, he wouldn't have been able to justify cheating on me and he couldn't blame me.
He cheated because he wanted to. And so did your wife.
What is she doing to figure out her issues? Is she in IC? Is she transparent? Does she answer all of your questions?
I'd ask if she own this..but clearly she is blaming OM for her actions. Until she takes full responsibility, you can't R.
..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.
You've gotten lots of good advice and all have made some excellent points. Consider it all HOWEVER maybe you should slow down. It sounds like you are forcing yourself to make a decision now. You have drawn your line in the sand which is necessary and awesome ....good job. But now step back a bit. You can think of YOU now. You owe it to yourself to figure out what you want...not what society or your parents or any others expect you to do
As my dad told me "no one else has to live your life"
Allow yourself to take all the time you want. You have enough pressure right now. Don't add extra for yourself
My wife has some issues with depression and is a notorious non communicator. She never actually confronted me about her suspicion I was cheating. She would always make snide remarks about "my girlfriends". The thing is my wife and I had lots of talks about cheating and we both knew the other would not tolerate it. We both said we would end any relationship before we cheated. She also knows I had ended relationships in the past.
My wife never deletes anything on the computer or her cell phone. She printed out and gave me all of the messages from the OM. He had seriously painted a great case for me cheating. I never carry my phone at work and when I would message my wife my replies were rather brief and to the point. OM knew what I was doing all the time at work since he was my immediate supervisor. His messages and calls to my wife would ask her whre i was because I had left early or should have been home. My wife would send me a messge when i was unavailable. When I would get her message my reply would be "working late. Or be home soon". But see the OM knew I was working and I would not answer my messages. My wife being the non communicator she is and she never a wants to argue just thought the worst. OM continued to do this for several months prior to January 2013. When I got my female partner OM was telling my wife my partner had gotten into our unit by sleeping with other officers. OM played it up and was always saying he was just looking out for my wife because everyone was such good friends for so long.
When I got hurt my wife found out the truth. OM had told my wife I was not working and was at a hotel with my partner. My partner was pregnant and working an office detail. My wife did not tell me anything about the affair until I confronted her in February of this year. I knew about it in full detail early January of this year. I had pages and pages of texts and emails none of which she ever expressed any deep feelings for OM. Sh never once said "I love you " to him. Her replies where always saying mean and nasty things about me. OM even suggested he try to get her pregnant so I would have to work longer and when she would finally leave me she could get more money. I can at least say she told him to go to hell on that one. Since I was injured my wife changed completely. She was perfect in every way. My wife and i have both started IC. My wife is so upset because her brother has now finally told us why he is no longer friends with OM. He tried to do almost he senthing to her brother and his wife. Wish they would have told me sooner or let my wife in on the issue. But they were unaware of our problems. My wife would never talk to her older brother about relationship issues due to her previous marriage and the issues it caused in her family.
I know my wife is remorseful and is trying so hard. But I can't keep wondering "Why?" Just talk to me ask me demand answers anything. Why did she want to hurt me so bad?
Good lord this is long. I am so sorry but I just had to get it out.
The overriding issue, and it's something many of us struggle with, is why was it easier for her to jump into the sack with him than it was to confront you about her unhappiness? I appreciate that she isn't a great communicator but this is her life, her marriage. Why did she not feel secure enough in her marriage to ask you what was going on? I get that she was in a bad place but still, the onus was on her to talk to you or seek advice/counselling.
She made a decision to do what she did and she needs to own that decision. The OM's manipulation may have clouded her judgement but he didn't hold a gun to her head.
I really do think you need to give this some time. Work through the issues in counselling and allow your wife the opportunity to show true remorse for what she did. As you get a bit further down the road you'll be able to see things more clearly and make a decision on whether or not R is an option.
Please keep posting here, there are plenty of people here to offer you support and advice.
You have received good advice, and it will come from many angles. And while I believe in giving yourself time to sort things out before making a life-changing decision, I am not in disagreement with you sending her divorce papers.
No, I am not pro-divorce. But I am definitely all for a strong stance, as you discover ALL that has led to this tragedy. Maybe your wife is remorseful; maybe there is more to the story. But what you do know, is that you are hurting badly...and you need to protect yourself.
Divorce doesn't happen overnight. You can stop the proceedings any time that you wish. But it does put your wife on a stopwatch, which may be a good thing. If she is truly remorseful, then she isn't going to give up---she is going to prove that she is worth a second chance. And if she ISN'T willing to put in that effort, are you going to be okay with that?
That will be for you to decide.
I think that the OM will get his come-uppings. There is no justification in his actions, and quite frankly, law-enforcement does not need the likes of him. As for your wife, you will need to dig deep. She will need to dig deep. If she was able to be snowed into another man's bed, WITHOUT CONFRONTING HER OWN HUSBAND, then what will stop her from doing it again? This is what she really needs to investigate...assuming that this is the truth.
No one wants to discover that their spouse is capable of things that we never imagined---yet here we are, devastated by their actions. Read confused615's post again, and take a harder look at your wife than you ever had. Is there more to this?
Good luck moving forward. Do not be afraid to press your wife for answers to very difficult questions. It may just be able to save your marriage...if you so desire.
All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day: 9/18/09 D-Day#2: 2/19/10 The Marriage Killer: 6/6/11
Heading for D
This said, your wife is partially absolved and fully responsible: most loving wives would-given all the evidence, have confronted you
Agreed, but she's grown up with the guy and doesn't know he's full of crap? The OM needs to have a full investigation by the PD and see who else he's tried this on.
I'd make sure his superiors understand the possibility of lawsuit coming.
As to the why, well that's a question your WW needs to answer.
Get the impression that your wife had an affair now expects that a few sorries will make things right. After all she's got you to believe she was tricked into cheating, which I think is a load of baloney.
Hope you have reported the OM to his superiors, which, together with testimony from your wife should cost the sleaze ball his job.
The OM needs to have a full investigation by the PD and see who else he's tried this on.
SWAT, after this, you and your wife could have an even stronger and better relationship. It sounds like she is truly remorseful and not just acting. I hope she also feels foolish for ever allowing this happen.
Like others though, I don't understand how she would not have confronted you first without having sex with the informer of this news.
You say she is the non-communicating type, and her way of confronted you could have been the snide comments she was making. My wife is also the non-communicating type, and that sure as hell can lead to problems in all areas of life and marriage.
Hopefully you can get over this. This mind images will get old after a while, like seeing a commercial a million times you hate, it finally just gets old.
If the cheating partner is willing to cooperate in post-nup or D which weighs heavily in the betrayed partner's favor ( in order to see to it that the betrayed partner is financially / legally protected ) than it is likely that this WS is remorseful and willing to move mountains to fix things..
I am speaking from the perspective of anticipating a difficult D..I feel trapped because I am having to spend more time than I want to in getting my ducks in a row to file.
As to my wife. When I confronted her she was obviously in shock. She just kept yelling "No..this can't be happening now." My wife then went on to explain she had ended the affair when she found out I was hospitalized for my injury. She said she was afraid to tell me anything because I had always said I could never stay with a cheater. My wife went on to say she was always afraid I would cheat on her or leave her anyway. It seems my wife has no self esteem due to the abuse from her previous marriage. My wife is gorgeous, the love of my life and the mother of my children. I never went a day without saying ILY. Earlier this month was our eleventh wedding anniversary. In my first post I said wife of thirteen years however we have been together 13 years but only married for ten. My wife and I got engaged and were planning the wedding when we had an "oops" and she became pregnant with our daughter. My wife didn't want to get married because she was pregnant. She didn't want me to do the "right thing". So we waited and I thought she realized how much I love her.
In my situation, my wife cheated, told me she wanted a divorce. So I filed the next week - to show her that I was serious. And I told her up front that filing for divorce is a formality...there is ample time to reconcile, seek MC, try to make things work. But I wanted her to know that I was serious - that I would not tolerate her continued adultery with this other guy.
She never showed any remorse, nor any apologies offered. I was willing to go to counseling, but it was a moot point.
In your case, from what I've read, you still have a marriage that can be resolved. Or at least it is still within the realm of possibilities.
I have actually spoken with the Chief of Police, also former military and a victim of infidelity. The Chief assured me OM will not be returning to work ever.
In my case, my wife worked with him-- and he was a pro at the long con. He worked to establish trust over a few months-- and used the rapport he built to lead things towards an affair.
It doesn't absolve my wife of her responsibility for cheating, but made it easier to understand after the fact.
Yet after the exposure, the leadership at their company closed ranks around him-- unlike in your case. It amounted to a tacit endorsement for infidelity -- and was pretty damn ugly to watch.
I don't know what you'll choose to do. But it does sound like you have better prospects for a successful reconciliation than many here. As one who has fully reconciled -- and been greatly blessed in the years after -- I hope you'll at least give it some consideration (provided there is nothing else uncovered about this, or some prior betrayal, that makes the matter more complicated).
Please keep us posted-- we're rooting for you, man.
My problem with your wife's story concerns a typical BS's reaction to infidelity:
1] First thing is we confront, because we want the sex and intimacy to end and explanations as to why the WS cheated. Your wife did not confront; apparently she was OK with your supposed adultery continuing. BS's just don't do that; if we care for our WS then we want that affair over, right now
2] As Uncertainone said a few weeks ago, whats the point of a revenge affair if you don't tell the spouse you have had one? Where is the revenge? Your wife was not going to tell you that she had cheated so we can rule out revenge as a reason.
3] She knew the OM wanted to get in her pants and therefore had a motive for spreading tales about your supposed infidelity. Why should she then believe this guy when he wanted her sexually and would do anything to get her between the sheets?
4] Every case of revenge affair I have ever heard of stemmed from a 100% certainty that the spouse has cheated. It was a given. Your WW did not have this certainty, nowhere near, so why proceed without 100% proof?
I think your wife is quite a clever gal. This tale about being tricked into sex by the OM lies is brilliant, because it gives her an out. She can look shocked and tearful and appear quite devastated. Hell, she's almost innocent of adultery; from her perspective anyway.
In reality, the OM came on to her, she was flattered by the attention and supported by some resentment of you, it was exciting affair time. She had her excuse, didn't really care if it had a basis or not, she got to enjoy another lover and you would probably never know.
I also think you should reconcile; just don't be hoodwinked into believing her deceit. Start off with honesty if you want the reconciliation to be successful.
One further sad point. Your wife has known you for 30 years, bore three of your children and she yet she 'chose to believe' lies from the OM who wanted sex with her. Either way you have been deeply insulted; either she is guilty of exciting adultery, or an awful lack of trust in a husband who has known her for nearly all of her life. Soul mates indeed!
[This message edited by OK now at 1:44 PM, March 28th (Friday)]
Why didn't she get "even" and tell me. Why try to ignore it? I say just tell me the truth. I need to know.
As for her thinking. There is no real rational thinking during an affair. There is never a conscience thought about getting caught.
The thought that she already lost you, sounds like someone who gave up...before even trying or fighting.
Maybe talking in front of a MC would help your wife communicate all of this better to you.
She is not going to tell you anything that casts her in bad light because that undermines reconciliation. Everything will be sanitized because her goal is to get you to forget her affair, get you back into the marriage bed and move on with life. She will ruthlessly pursue that objective and veracity doesn't figure into the equation.
I'm sorry to say that you will not get the truth you seek for quite a while, if ever. She cheated selfishly, regrets getting caught and you might as well get along with reconciliation. Things however, will never be the same, nor should they be.
I have known this woman for so long. How could she not trust me? How could she not say anything to me? Why do this to me?
These are the questions that you CANNOT leave unanswered. Her responses are woefully inadequate, and she needs to start being honest with you(and herself).
I've asked her if she thought I wouldn't care? Did she think I would not notice the change in her behavior. I asked her all the time to talk to me. Would she...no. Her only reply is she thought she had already lost me.
Again, this is totally unacceptable. It shows a real lack of remorse. Your feelings were never taken into consideration.
I told her the only conclusion I can draw from this was she wanted to. She must have like it.
She did it more than once. She has told me about the three times (she says) together. Twice was oral sex and touching one time actual sex. I call BS. If she was so upset with my "cheating". Why didn't she get "even" and tell me. Why try to ignore it?
You will never have a chance at true reconciliation, without the answers to these.
I say just tell me the truth. I need to know.
Isn't it amazing(and cruel) that we can often work past the actual infidelity, but it is the ensuing lies that really kill the marriage?
[This message edited by jb3199 at 11:38 PM, March 28th (Friday)]
She lost it again and apologized saying she will do anything. I asked her to write everything in a letter since she does have a hard time expressing herself. She agreed to do so and is in the kitchen writing it now. I truly want to believe her but I know it just doesn't add up.
I mean why him of all people. Yes I considered him one of my best friends. My BIL now hates him but he never said anything bad about OM. These people have been major influences for the majority of my life. BIL,WW and their family were my rock growing up. I was the only child of a single mother (divorced). That family took me in and treated my like a son. Even before I actually was on. OM was the third amigo when we were growing up. BIL has since told me OM has always been jealous of us. No one knows why actually.
Wife has said it would not have happened if it wasn't him. I don't get that really. Does it make sense to anyone? I did have my wife served with divorce papers when I sent her all of the evidence. She hasn't responded to them yet and has obviously said she does not want a divorce. I'm trying my best to be strong through all of this. That is what I do and have always done. It is just my nature and how I have lived my life. I will always stand up for what I believe is right. I have fought for and bled for this all of my adult life. Tonight I told me wife I am tired. I have been fighting for what is right for more than twenty five years. I asked her one more question. Are you ready to stand up and fight for what is right? She cried and said she would. I am praying she does. For me, her and our family.
She opened up and said she has always been afraid I would find someone better. She believes I was just to good for her and would find a better woman. She said she always noticed other women checking me out and what she saw as flirting with me. She said she is just not pretty enough or woman enough to keep a man like me.
This is a wayward's backhand compliment. Its taking any of the responsibility off her and laying it on you/your looks/your personality, etc.
Why, if she was so afraid of losing you, did she go fuck someone else? Not once. Oh no. But numerous times. She had a relationship outside of your marriage and is blaming it on thinking she might lose you? That sounds rehearsed. Honestly. It all of a sudden came to her when you were hospitalized and the truth of your whereabouts came out - right.
Ask pointed questions, not open ended ones. Ask her specifics.
Her letter will be all flowery and make you out to be this wonderful guy that she doesn't deserve. Don't lap it up. Read it for what it is, a manipulation.
Putting your pain aside for just a moment, look at the current situation from a different angle.
She may very well be telling you a good(if not most) portion of the truth, but that is not enough. She not only betrayed you, but she betrayed herself. How was she able to debase herself so easily...and repeatedly?
If she doesn't dig deep to get these answers, then unfortunately, the chance for more D-days in the future is very high.
The two parts of the problem are (1) getting the entire truth about the affair(s), and (2) discovering how it became possible. How personal morals and boundaries were simply dismissed, and a perpetual lie was kept until discovery. How to put new, healthy boundaries in place, so trust can eventually be rebuilt.
She has to want to do this, friend, or the marriage can never recover. I hope that she has it in her to find out.
When you finally have all the ruth you are going to get you need to define the path towards reconciliation. Maybe counseling might be in order; discussing issues together with a third party is often helpful.
You might ask if she had any intention of confessing her adultery sometime in the future if you had not found out. Gives an interesting insight into how emotionally close she feels to you and how much she values honesty.
You might even find yourself questioning if 2+2 really is 4.
I think the most important part right now is for your wife to be honest with herself and you. Honest as to the why, what really allowed her to do this.
The reason for her to fully understand the why, is so it never happens again. There are lots of asses in this world, and certainly your wife needs to understand how she let this happen just because she was lied to.
Soul searching on her part might reveal her previous marriage, which I believe you said had some kind of abuse during it, have any part. Will it in future decisions.
Make sure you let her be honest, which means that she is not afraid of being honest with you.
For the immediate time being you may not see any cheating or other misbehavior...It is only with a lot of time ( maybe some additional digging) that you will know your WW's true motivations and intentions..
Over time you will have more clarity into how you feel in the aftermath of WW's A's..
You will begin to get an idea whether or not your resentment over what your W did is too overwhelming to stay in the marriage...
Protect your self legally and financially in writing in a way that is legally binding.Taking the time to see how the affair aftermath unfolds / and or attempting R should not risk your future livelihood..
I don't mean to sound cold or bitter, but I think a remorseful WS would understand why his/her BS would not want to risk his/her future livelihood to attempt R..... Sometimes it is years down the road before one realizes that attempted R is a false R..
So before R happens, protect yourself..You will have more peace of mind if you have a good (legal/financial) exit plan in place in the event R goes badly..
I broached this topic to my WS several months into attempted R..The answers I got from him gave me the clarity that I needed...
I found out that what my WH wanted out of the marriage had nothing to do with loving me as a wife...He just wanted the comforts of home/stability..A little cake and ice cream on the side..Apparently I could never be enough for him..
My WS made it clear in no uncertain terms that he was entitled 1/2 of community property in a D..He told me that I was a crazy bitch to broach the topic of post nup and NO WAY was he gonna cooperate..
What you need from your WW are ACTIONS...Let your WW prove she is remorseful without any intention of taking advantage of you or the marriage..
Her cooperation or lack of it in drafting / signing post nup can give you much needed clarity..
[This message edited by doggiediva at 10:17 AM, March 29th (Saturday)]
Something sticks out like a sore thumb. It's a very common assumption, especially when viewed in the context of a RA.
Why do this to me?
All of us, and I do mean all, get this stuck in our forebrain. It is from our heart, our soul and our confusion. How could the one we loved and trusted so much do this to us? Seems obvious, right? It's not.
Actually, all affairs, even RA's have very little to do with us the BS. Strip away the surrounding circumstances (everyone has their excuses, just like a certain body part), and what you're left with is; *what need/want/desire* did the A fill? She wanted to hurt you as a result of your *A*? Without talking to you or confronting you? Really? My own questions would fall along the lines of, *Why would you be so willing to demean yourself just to get back at me?* *After all of our discussions about an A ending our M, why was your first response to f*** him?*
Just occurred to me. As close as all of you were in your youth, is there a sexual history between them in the past?
Strength today brother.
Went home and asked WW, "WTF was he talking about?" So it appears they had a little history I knew nothing about. WW said they dated briefly before she was married to her first husband. WW says it was an intimate relationship, but she ended it due to his "deviant" nature making her uncomfortable. That and she didn't love him like she loved her ex.
I told my WW I was leaving for awhile. She gave me her letter today, which is more of a timeline. I read it and said. So she had an obvious history with OM, dumped him because she "loved" a man who physically and mentally abused her. Divorced him and decided I was the best option.
WW said that is not true. She has loved me since she was a teenage. She says she settled before not now.
I almost threw up. I told her im leaving and went for a run. That was about three hours ago. I'm at my in laws right now. WW has been texting me for the last hour. In laws know everything now. MIL is pissed, she told me she never liked OM. OM was a strange kid according to FIL, stated one of the happiest day of their lives was when I asked WW on our first date.
I just don't know anymore. WW letter says she choose OM because she thought it would upset me but not destroy me because she never loved him. It was just sex. My MIL thinks WW depression (not diagnosed) along with the mental abuse from her ex caused her to exaggerate her feelings and thoughts about my "cheating". MIL stated the ex really did mess up WW.
MIL stated she was concerned early last year because she also noticed WW acting strange and mentioning my "gf's". MIL said she asked WW what was going on but WW said everything was fine. MIL is so upset that she never mentioned it to me. I just wish WW would have done or said something before this all happened.
The look on OM face today and how he acted like he owned her. I can't get that out of my head. I was upset before but now I just see them together in my head. God I want to throw up.
Then they look amazed at the pain of the BS and say something dumb like "it was only sex". Its supposed to take as much as 5 years for the BS to climb out of the post-fidelity depression, but you can bet the WS will be complaining after a few months "why can't you get over it and move on"
Hope you can come to some decision fairly soon that brings some measure of peace.
None of this is easy but you are holding up incredibly well under the strain--especially when confronted with the OM! I hope you are able to be proud of yourself for that. I also hope you will eventually allow yourself to put your strength down in order to process the feelings as needed; but the early numbness can be a blessing and using the 180 as a tool will only help.
Working 12's is a good way to reasonably maintain 50/50 custody. If you are separating, keep up the time with them. It will be hard, but it sounds like you have help for times when you can hardly breathe.
i was on a direct action CQB team in the marine corps. i know that this betrayal cuts even more deeply because of the work relationship with the OM, teammates are supposed to have each others backs. instead he stuck you into harms way and then ambushed you.
id feel the same way towards OM as you do.
i do think there is more about your WW and OM than you know right now. revelations keep coming out that alter their relationship. a good question to ask is of your brother in law ... why is it that he wont talk to OM from years before? what happened? there is a story there and it may shed more light on what is going on...
from 09/11 - 05/13
2 ONS, 10 sexting partners, 1 LT EA/PA
??/06/13 DD/1 - admits to LT EA, begin false R.
01/13/14 DD/2 - LTA was PA.
01/18/14 DD/3 - sexting 5 guys.
01/19/14 DD/4 - 2 ONS with different guys
I agree with this post from William. If you are going to start digging, this is a very good place to start.
So your WW figured it wouldn't be as bad because it "was just sex"? Wow---I bet that you feel better now. The shit that comes out of our spouses mouths can be amazing.
And let's add to that---she "just had sex" with someone she had an intimate past with....that you were totally unaware of. And she stopped dating him because his *deviant* behavior? But had her *revenge affair* with that same person? You can see how this doesn't add up.
Also, is there any possibility that her ex wasn't this abusive monster, and your WW contributed heavily to their failed marriage? I am just throwing that question out there.
It appears that you are quite comfortable with her in-laws. I'm glad that they support you. Hopefully, with some pointed questions, they may be able to give you some answers that will help the puzzle fit together a little better. I know that it is hard to make sense out of nonsense...which is what affairs are...but there may very well be some darker background from your WW's past that you never even thought possible. And now that you are neck-deep in this mess, you are going to want some explanations.
On a different note, I see that the POS OM hasn't learned anything yet, has he?
. OM gave me the bird and caused a scene telling me I f'ed his life up.
BIL explained a lot of things last night. OM had attempted to split BIL up with SIL years ago. OM did the almost exact same thing. Tried to make each of them think the other was cheating and was always giving some typed of "proof". I got to say after a few drinks and the talk I have a lot more respect for my SIL. Would not want to piss her off. OM had tried setting them up and when he made a move on SIL, she punched him. BIL said he and his W also had problems communicating when this all happened. MC helped them a lot he said. When this happened my BIL did have it out with OM. OM has actually hated us for years now. OM was apparently jealous of us. BIL was always the ladies man even in high school. When I graduated and left OM hated me because I was missed by several classmates and the in laws. According to my BIL, WW did have a huge crush on me then. OM actually wanted her then. OM said he should have been the one my in laws "took in". He was born locally and knew he family longer. I'm an only child of a single mother and my in laws treated me like a son from early on. My mother is a wonderful woman and did her best to provide for me. My friendship with all of these people was so important to me. They became my family.
So while I'm away, OM is still friends with everyone and eventually moves in on my WW. They date briefly and it ends badly due to WW also dating her ex at the time. BIL did not think either relationship was very serious at the time as WW was still very young and at no time did she act exclusive with them. BIL did confirm the abuse and does not believe there was any infidelity in that relationship.
I asked my BIL why he never told me any of this and he said he did not know exactly. BIL thought the mess between him and his wife was the extent of the problem. He did not know OM still held such hatred for me or still had feelings for my WW. BIL said his avoiding OM and not saying anything to his family probably caused my WW affair more than anything.
I told him no. That is all on WW. She did this to us not anyone else. She was the weak one and gave in. She choose to believe him and not fight for me or our marriage.
I went to the coffee shop and had to get this all out. I sent my WW a message. I told her I'm hurt and angry with her. I love her but I don't know how I can fix this or get past it. I told her not to respond. My WW sent me this "SWAT, I love you with all of my heart and soul. I am so sorry for what I did to you, me and our family. I will fix this, just wait and see. Give me some time and I will probe it to you. Please!! I love you."
I sent another message telling her she can try I will be watching. I also said I would not be returning home anytime soon, but would stop by tonight to see the children and get my things for work.
This stuff sucks so bad. I want to thank everyone who has posted. I have read them all and your well wishes are awesome. It's just ironic that you all sometimes seem to know what's going to happen or that there maybe more I don't know about. To those of you who actually R, god bless you all cause this shit is hard. I always thought I could take anything thrown my way. Now I'm not so sure.
OM certainly sounds like a broken piece of detritus, don't try and understand him or thw situation mate, because to quote our MC, 'there is no logic to be found in an affair....because they are completely illogical to begin with.'
OM is my case is a serial cheater who admitted to my W in the closing stages of the affair that he was sleeping with hookers at the same time hewas trying to position my wife into the sack. Yeah, real classy guy.
Don't feel rushed to make a decision mate, take your time. It certainly is uncanny how people on here can predict what has happened, but that is purely because these things follow an almost identical script...one that has played out thousands of times.
Me BS (34) WW (29)
Married 2 years
2y old Daughter
D-Day 05 Nov 13
Time will tell, but it looks like you have reason to hope. You have a remorseful WW and that's half the battle.
And think on this. Do you want the POSOM to
know he won by destroying your family?
Away you will go, sailing in a race among the ruins.
If you plan to face tomorrow, do it soon. Gordon Lightfoot
He also said that your WW belonged to him,not you, which is not exactly a rational statement.
I would watch for this flaky, unstable nut to take further action against you. In particular your wife needs to make sure she takes no personal risks safety wise. Maybe you should go home at nights just in case; family protection and all that. This guy's attitude and mental health is somewhat disturbing and you need to be extra vigilant.
Im a former LEO. Joined up young and left to pursue a different career 9 years later.
I think I can understand the world you are coming from the sense of double betrayal (your wife and your supervisor), the sense of duty (to family and to the Force), the do-right complex, the doubts, the questions, the ground-shattering of all your believes and values
I might as well share my d-day story with you [Old-timers; bear with me. I know I have shared this numerous times but IMHO SWAT might benefit from it]
Friday night-shift from 22:00-06:00. Before I left we went over some details for our wedding (planned Saturday 5 weeks from that day). She told me she might go visit the girls from the saloon (she was/is a hairdresser) and have a drink or two, but otherwise she was going to have an early night.
At around 2:00 a guy wrapped his car around a street-light and I was in one of the first cars to respond. I helped the ER get the guy out of the wreck and got some blood over my shirt sleeves and chest. I knew I was out of shirts in my locker so I dropped off home at our apartment.
I entered quietly so as to not wake her up. As I got closer to the bedroom I heard the groans and moans
I looked in and there she was in our bed with another man thrusting between her legs. I switched the light on
Wow. What an explosion! Just imagine the poor OM having the time of his life and all of a sudden a big and bloody police officer is standing at the foot of the bed!
She screamed the classic line Its not what you think! and he more or less fell out of bed in a struggle to get his pants on. I told him (in a surprisingly calm voice) Dont bother getting out of bed. Finish what you are doing. Shame to waste a good hard-on. She has no relevance to me anymore. I then went and got a couple of clean shirts and left the room, closing the door behind me.
I changed shirts and left the apartment NEVER to enter it again.
I went back to my parents after the shift. My brother went and gathered my stuff some days later. The wedding? Well
it never took place.
For ME this was the right decision. I only had time invested in that relationship. Granted it was nearing 5 years (about 2-3 living together) but at THAT TIME I decided that I did not want to enter a lifetime commitment if she wasnt more committed than this indicated.
In my case the OM was irrelevant in the sense that for him this was an ONS with a woman he barely knew the name of. I learned afterwards that she had done this several times in our relationship picked up random men for sex. Friends had suspicions, some had knowledge but no-one had the balls to tell me.
OK so now you know where I come from.
Its not really true that LEO cheat more than others. About 30 years ago researchers discovered that LEO have a significantly higher divorce rate than other professions. This has been researched a lot since then and is a major concern for HR in LEO. A good officer becomes good with time and experience. A veteran is a very valuable commodity, just as a bad officer is a major liability. Considering the higher divorce-, alcoholism- and suicide rates most departments have invested heavily in making professional services such as IC and MC available to its officers.
Im guessing that if you are working a large department (since you are in a tactical squad) so PLEASE look into what resources are available to you.
I think that in many ways I did the perfect recovery after d-day in all aspects but two: I didnt think to get anti-depressants (I was afraid they might cloud my professional abilities) and I did not get professional help. 15 years later I got help from an IC regarding PTSD symptoms from the d-day.
SWAT As an officer then the chances are you have training you can utilize do deal with your situation. If you do then fall back to it. In officer training in the military and in my police academy training great emphasis is placed on evaluating the data you can access, reaching a decision based on your resources and options and then implementing. Once you implement you constantly reevaluate the data, new data, the options they offer and whether you need to take a new decision based on the changes. Officers are trained that the ONLY completely fatal mistakes is NOT reaching a decision, [Over time those that tend to make the wrong decisions are weeded out, along with those that cant reach a decision].
The same principles apply in law enforcement. A drastic example: Imagine you are facing two opponents. One has a handgun that hes holding but pointing down, the other has a big bowie knives. You are standing with your gun drawn pointing at them 20 feet away. Where would your main focus be? Where would you point your gun? All three are a threat but of the three who is most capable of causing you trouble at that particular moment?
OK so you evaluate and decide to point your gun at the guy with the handgun. You definitely keep your eyes on the other two and you are ready to switch targets, but you gun is drawn straight at the chest of Mr. Handgun. Then you realize the handgun is a starter-pistol, incapable of firing live ammo. You all of a sudden have new info and this makes you reevaluate the situation. All of a sudden Mr. Bowie Knife is the threat. Even knowing that you also know that this is only one of a number of steps you have to do. But right now there and then disarming them and gaining control is the only step that matters. The other steps
Deal with them at the right time.
An example I often use for those that dont have military- or LEO training: You wake up to the smell of smoke and the wailing of your smoke-detectors. You evaluate and realize your house is on fire. This is not the time to worry about your insurance coverage, the damage the firemens boots will do to your hardwood floors or the damage from the water. You simply focus on making sure everyone is safe and then calling 911. Focus on the prime task in hand and then deal with the rest as appropriate.
OK How does this apply to your marriage and your situation?
Well You are all over the place with your problems;
Are the kids yours?
Can you remain married?
Is the affair over?
How could she do this?
And so on
These are ALL issues you need to and will address. But in a clear and organized way.
Lets get the paternity issue out of the way. That is a major concern and I can imagine being worried about that issue must be eating away at you. If you are determined to know the truth then do either of the below:
1) Know your, WW and childrens blood-type? Simply look up online if the types indicate paternity (http://www.canadiancrc.com/paternity_determination_blood_type.aspx). This might provide you with answers and/or eliminate some possibilities.
2) Check online for paternity DNA tests. Its enough that you send your sample as well as samples from the kids (swab or hair). Its not legally binding but will give you an answer that you can evaluate your options from.
See? You analyze the problem, look for options and then you implement. Sometime later you get an answer that might end the problem, but it might open new problems. But you act. You dont stew in the problem.
SWAT IMHO the BIGGEST issue after d-day is making sure the affair is over.
Its really an exception where and when a WW says she has ended an affair and its really over.
Is there ANY communications between them? Can your WW assure you there is no communication?
Working on R while the affair is ongoing even if its an occasional peek at OM Facebook page thats like spicing your coffee at an AA meeting. Its not going to work.
So I suggest you totally focus on making sure the affair is over. Right now that task is the guy pointing the gun in your direction. Other issues (why, has she cheated before and so on)
they are there but right now do not have the same importance or value as simply getting assurance the affair is over.
SWAT if you want me to watch over your shoulder then dont hesitate to reply. I hope I have given you some hints on how to progress and how to move on; evaluate your issues and focus on those that really matter. Act rather than react and then react on the actions you take.
Also, her not telling you they had a history together, is a lie of omission imo. Even without cheating, I would feel kind of betrayed to find out my husband had had a relationship or history with someone in our circle and did not tell me about it. Probably not a deal breaker on a marriage, but sneaky at the very least.
Her comments to you about thinking you were too good for her really struck me too. My ws has said similar things to me, and my reaction has been that I've felt strangely insulted by it and the first thing I think is "excuse". As someone else said, it's a backhanded compliment intended to blameshift. WH has also said things like "I'll probably be the one to mess up our relationship because I have so many issues". Again - excuse, blameshifting, ego (like his problems are soooo much worse than mine or anyone else's) and pity seeking.
You need to probe and investigate; have their been other physical encounters? Has she regularly cheated?
As I mentioned before she is fighting for her marriage and her children's stability; don't expect her to be truthful as to why she betrayed you.
How are you?
Sending you strength and peace.
sending strength
Are you sure those printouts were not fakes? Anybody can type something fake and print it.
And I don't believe this whole story she is portraying.
No matter how much you WANT to believe it.
1. She didn't reveal that she dated OM when she was young AFTER she already got caught.
2. The whole story about she thought you were cheating and it was only a revenge affair does not jibe. She wanted to do it- no matter what the back reasons are. Anybody who has an affair wanted to do it at the time.
I returned home last night and got to see my children. My oldest (DD) would not go to bed. She spent the night with me in the guest suite. My boys are to young to understand but were happy to see me. My youngest just said "Daddy your home". I cried like a baby.
Just a couple of days away from them was excruciating. WW meet me with a hug and told me "Your dress uniform and medals are ready and I polished your shoes." I never asked her to do that, but she did. I know it is a small thing but to me it means a lot.
I put my two kids on the bus this morning and had a conversation with WW. I pointed out some of the questions you all had and how what she was telling me did not make sense and I was having a difficult time believing her.
WW took a deep breath and looked me in the eyes. She said her and OM went on less than ten dates and had barely started a sexual relationship. WW said they had "made out" and had sex one time before I returned home. WW stated OM was very aggressive and seemed to like "causing her discomfort and some pain". She did not like this at the time and ended it with OM. Less than a week later I asked her out and the rest is history. WW said that at he time she was so happy that I seemed to want her and I treated her so well. WW stated that over time she began to feel like she did not deserve being treated well. She could not pin point exactly what made her feel this way but said it happened after our second child was born. WW said the feeling kept getting worse and then she got pregnant again with our third child. While he is loved and a blessing, he was not planned. I was supposed to get some...ah hum surgery, but there was a family planning accident and you all can guess. WW had not gotten back her figure and this may have added to her depression.
Fast forward to affair time. WW was angry and depressed. When OM played his little game she did not really fight it to hard. WW admitted she was curious and felt she wanted to be "punished" so OM was the logical choice on her mind. WW said while she regrets what happened she can not blame anyone but herself. WW said she was upset with me over the extra OT and me spending most of my free time with the family and not her. I took exception to this as she is the one always asking it there was OT for me to work. (Just like everyone else money is tight) Cops don't do the job to get rich. WW said she knew that and in her mind understood it, but still resented it. WW said the affair ended the day I was hospitalized. I believe her since the text messages and emails I read back this up. WW admitted she went to OM voluntarily and feels she deserves my anger. WW asked me to forgive her and wanted to know if we could ever possibly stay married. I told her I did forgive her but I just didn't know if I could get past the cheating. WW told me she has sent OM a NC letter, which she sent without me asking and showed me a copy of the letter. No feeling or sappy words. Just "You where once a friend of my family and deaf husband. You made it possible to destroy the best thing that ever happened to me, my marriage to the best man I ever knew. I will never speak to you again do not contact me in anyway. Any further contact from you will result in me contacting the police." I have to say I ...
I have listened to quite a few women who have committed adultery and the common theme is once they get the BH back in bed with them forgiveness will quickly follow. Rather cynical exploitation of male sexual desire. Its not that easy to heal these wounds and most BS's never forget. Ever.
WW stated that over time she began to feel like she did not deserve being treated well.
Let's see... where have I heard this before....Oh yeah, my WW! I think most of us guys here that have caught our wives eventually get to this part of the story. I did because of a "bad" childhood, or " I didn't deserve to be loved by a good guy...".
Frankly, the " I'm not worthy, so I cheated" story begins to grate my cheese after awhile. Now you're hearing that "you worked too hard and long to make extra money, so I cheated" on top of that?
OK, fair warning, this is on of those hot buttons that sets me off even now. Can this marriage be saved? Probably. I'm just giving prejudicial advice to not be too quick and willing to buy into some of these reasons as being causes, as much as they're rationalizations in her own mind. That does not do you any good in the long run. Exploring the "why" will always be the 400 lb gorilla in the room.
Good luck, Brother. You're gonna make it.
[This message edited by twisted at 8:31 AM, April 2nd (Wednesday)]
Your wife (and in a sense you too) are falling into that trap.
Your wife is finding all sorts of reasons for why she had to have that affair.
You are finding all sorts of reasons to explain why she had the affair.
Simple fact is that she cheated. Simple fact is that even when you take all the factors into considerations then at the end of the day it was SHE and SHE ALONE that decided to take this relationship with OM one step further than she should have. Everything and anything she tells you now
its irrelevant. The explanations, excuses and so on
they dont matter right now. They are simply the burglar pushing the responsibility on to the insurance company.
What you need to hear from her soon (as in the next 3 months or so) is a complete and unlimited apology. Total remorse.
Personally I dont think WS are capable of total remorse until a bit into recovery. To show total remorse you need to grasp the total damage you caused and right now your WW isnt really capable of that. She might realize what she risked but she does not realize the damage.
The reasons and whys do matter. In order to prevent another affair your wife needs to realize what made her reach the conscious and deliberate conclusion that she was entitled to an affair. So on your path to reconciliation (if that is the path you decide to go) then one of the many milestones is for her to realize whats wrong. Yes she should share it with you but she needs to find out the why with IC help and not (necessarily) yours.
For the sake of argument then lets assume the affair is over. Lets assume shes being honest when she tells you she isnt contacting OM at the moment.
Once again Im going to suggest you fall back on your training:
Remaining in the present situation isnt really an option.
Way too often you hear here on SI the suggestion not to do anything right away after d-day.
Well I totally disagree. I think you need to do something after d-day because otherwise you are doomed to remain in pain. I would rather suggest you look at the options you have in front of you and start following through on the one that seems the best for you and the one that causes the least permanent damage. For example; if you feel the affair is a total and unequivocal deal-breaker then start thinking of how to separate. Start wearing the idea; start thinking of how to separate assets, debts, custody
There is so much that needs to be done before you would actually implement a divorce or separation.
If however you are not sure
then start implementing the tools you need to recover. Chances are your department offers IC and MC. Look into that. DO NOT be too proud to get help. Like I have told you then the departments realize what an asset an experience officer is and they do offer this help for a reason.
List your major issues. I took paternity as an example. Take them one at a time and decide how to handle them.
SWAT take time to think of yourself. After my d-day I added to my jogging, to my weights, to my cross country
I got into the best shape I ever was in. I exercised because I realized it handled my stress and helped me sleep.
Make sure you eat. Healthy is better but not an issue. I realized that I hadnt had anything to eat about 36 hours after d-day and when I tried I could hardly keep anything down. So I went and got two milk-shakes and a burger. Eat by the clock if you need to: its noon so have some food.
Its OK to relax. Its OK to enjoy being round your kids. You are dealing with something thats going to take months and years to recover from. You have to pace yourself and work really really hard to move out of this.
However a tiny few, your wife included, go out and give themselves to another man; the whole works, oral and penetrative sex. The excuses are pathetic; BH working too hard, a little too controlling, didn't think you cared, not helping around the house etc. etc. they are reasons given to disguise the real reason; they saw an opportunity for intense excitement and romantic and sexual fantasy. Power, being desired, self-importance and being treated as very special by a fawning OM, all figure into the equation.
The affair is discovered. Damn! Now we have the pitiful explanations, writing NC's and promises not to do it again; all in an effort to save their precious marriages. The lot of the BS is to put up with this crap.
WW took a deep breath and looked me in the eyes. She said her and OM went on less than ten dates and had barely started a sexual relationship. WW said they had "made out" and had sex one time before I returned home. WW stated OM was very aggressive and seemed to like "causing her discomfort and some pain". She did not like this at the time and ended it with OM. Less than a week later I asked her out and the rest is history. WW said that at he time she was so happy that I seemed to want her and I treated her so well. WW stated that over time she began to feel like she did not deserve being treated well. She could not pin point exactly what made her feel this way but said it happened after our second child was born. WW said the feeling kept getting worse and then she got pregnant again with our third child. While he is loved and a blessing, he was not planned. I was supposed to get some...ah hum surgery, but there was a family planning accident and you all can guess. WW had not gotten back her figure and this may have added to her depression.
Fast forward to affair time. WW was angry and depressed. When OM played his little game she did not really fight it to hard. WW admitted she was curious and felt she wanted to be "punished" so OM was the logical choice on her mind. WW said while she regrets what happened she can not blame anyone but herself. WW said she was upset with me over the extra OT and me spending most of my free time with the family and not her. I took exception to this as she is the one always asking it there was OT for me to work. (Just like everyone else money is tight) Cops don't do the job to get rich. WW said she knew that and in her mind understood it, but still resented it. WW said the affair ended the day I was hospitalized. I believe her since the text messages and emails I read back this up. WW admitted she went to OM voluntarily and feels she deserves my anger. WW asked me to forgive her and wanted to know if we could ever possibly stay married. I told her I did forgive her but I just didn't know if I could get past the cheating. WW told me she has sent OM a NC letter, which she sent without me asking and showed me a copy of the letter. No feeling or sappy words. Just "You where once a friend of my family and deaf husband. You made it possible to destroy the best thing that ever happened to me, my marriage to the best man I ever knew. I will never speak to you again do not contact me in anyway. Any further contact from you will result in me contacting the police." I have to say I ...
Fast forward to affair time. WW was angry and depressed. When OM played his little game she did not really fight it to hard. WW admitted she was curious and felt she wanted to be "punished" so OM was the logical choice on her mind. WW said while she regrets what happened she can not blame anyone but herself. WW said she was upset with me over the extra OT and me spending most of my free time with the family and not her. I took exception to this as she is the one always asking it there was OT for me to work. (Just like everyone else money is tight) Cops don't do the job to get rich. WW said she knew that and in her mind understood it, but still resented it. WW said the affair ended the day I was hospitalized. I believe her since the text messages and emails I read back this up. WW admitted she went to OM voluntarily and feels she deserves my anger. WW asked me to forgive her and wanted to know if we could ever possibly stay married. I told her I did forgive her but I just didn't know if I could get past the cheating. WW told me she has sent OM a NC letter, which she sent without me asking and showed me a copy of the letter. No feeling or sappy words. Just "You where once a friend of my family and deaf husband. You made it possible to destroy the best thing that ever happened to me, my marriage to the best man I ever knew. I will never speak to you again do not contact me in anyway. Any further contact from you will result in me contacting the police." I have to say I ...
Your wife minimized her relationship with OM. You have known her for this long and never knew she had a relationship with this guy. Her first statements to you about the 'revenge affair' are contradicted in what she says here.
Her NC letter was good, glad she kept a copy for you to read because it made you feel so good (her intent). Are you sure she sent it?
I agree with everyone who says WW is lying about this, she choose to do this and use the excuse that she believed him. I told her that is not true, she wanted to F him and she did. Of course she originally tried to deny it. But when confronted with the fact she never told me she had a prior relationship with someone who was one of my best friends. I am hurt and angry at WW, what she did, what she has done to my plans, what she has done to our family. WW says she understands and wants to do what ever she can to fix this.
WW has her entire family, while they do love me and support me they are her family first, I'm the interloper there. I have no brothers or sisters, parents and grandparents are gone. Aunts, uncles and cousins are hours away. I do speak with IC through EAP and it helps. IC has asked me if I want to stay in the marriage for love or am I afraid the be alone at this point in my life. The sad part is, I'm not sure. I do love my WW and my family, but she has done something that is the polar opposite of my beliefs and character. I've made mistakes in my marriage, I've screwed up a bunch of times. When I noticed she was depressed some times, I should have pushed harder to find out the problems. When she would ignore me, I should have tried harder to get her to talk. I know the affair isn't my fault. She choose to do this, I had no part in her decision.
I never intentionally hurt my wife and was always faithful. I waited a long time to get married, I wanted to do it right. I tried to be the best husband I could be, to bad it wasn't enough for WW.
I just realized something, part of my problem is I have no control. I've always had control.
We "thought" we had control until we realized we never really had it. I, too, thought I had control until D-day opened my eyes. I then realized that we don't truly have control over anyone's actions. If they want to up and leave, they can. It's quite eye-opening to say the least.
Sorry that you're here, Swat. This site is a godsend! Keep coming back here for support.
I told her that is not true, she wanted to F him and she did.
Chances are thats not correct.
As a rule affairs tend to be about power and validation. For men getting a woman to accept sex tends to be the affirmation of power. For a woman sex tends to be the price for the validation the man offers in exchange for sex.
Sort of I must be hot because hes offering me all this attention. That attention feels good
I want more of that
Oh No! Hes losing interest
Better offer some sex
And about control
You have more control than you think buddy.
If nothing else then grasp the issues you can control the impact on and act on them.
I'm working on me and spending as much time as I can with my kids right now, that I can control. I want to thank you, you've pointed out something to me. I'm being too trusting of WW, I'm believing what she says. I do think she is remorseful, I do believe she loves me. While her actions showed she was selfish and wanted to hurt me. I'm a "fixer", I want to fix this and it is causing me to accept things that can't be proved yet. Another thing that goes against my nature.
I guess I'll just have to see what the next several months bring and how she acts. WW did start IC, I'm not sure if I mentioned that before. I guess only time will tell whether or not this can be salvaged.
If she was honest and told you this, then from her perspective you would never trust her again. What about the next guy and his sweet, tempting validation? Also if she capriciously acts on her desires why can't you?
Hence her refusal to tell you she cheated because she felt like it. She must trot out an excuse[s] to avoid the horrifying conclusion, that she is a wife that can never be trusted because she screws guys she fancies and therefore she can't complain if you do likewise. Loyal, faithful soul mates don't coldly and casually f*ck other men because they just plain want to. She needs to project an image of a caring, family oriented wife and will fabricate any excuse that fits that image.
I guess what I meant to say was, she didn't want MY attention or interest anymore
Disagree. Your attention and interest were taken for granted. No longer had any value to her. Up to her to determine why that is.
I do think she is remorseful, I do believe she loves me.
Remorse can only be shown through time and actions. My FWW gave me the *snot bubbling, mascara running "I'm sorries"* immediately after D-Day. True remorse, 8 months later.
Did you go to a debriefing? Little concerned for you.
I had written a fairly lengthy post, go figure. I erased it because I can sum up how I feel right now in one sentence. "I really don't give a flying f@ck right now." WW can go f@ck off right now.
I guess I'm and angry elf this very early morning. But will probably change my mind two hours from now. I apologize to everyone for being all I've the place. Hopefully I can really stick to the 180, while teaching the next couple of weeks. I'll be a few hours away so no commute. My plane is to face time with the kids and try to stick with the 180 with WW.
Keep strong
The 180 can be a challenge, but stick to it. It will help keep you grounded. It was a source of freedom for me.
Your statement that your WW wanted to f... the OM, so she did---is in my opinion, correct.
Bigger's statement that she didn't necessarily want to f... him, but sought out the validation, in my opinion, is also correct.
The truth is, she sought attention, and KNEW that sex was a very high possibility...and yet still pursued such. Only your WW can really answer if she pursued the sex, or just the validation.
I look at my wife and see the woman I fell in love with. But that woman would not have done this, right? What did WW do with the woman I fell in love with?
This is the tough part to accept: no matter how much pain that we have incurred, we as betrayed spouses do not understand how much they have betrayed themselves.
Think about it---she debased herself for someone else. How will she ever explain that to her children? How could she have gone so low, that she was to damage her soul? She doesn't get a do-over; she has to go on, and try to be the best person that she can be. But no matter how well she adjusts in the future, this dark time will always be a part of her life--a dirty fling that compromised everything that was good in her life. That is a heavy burden to wear.
By no means am I sympathizing with your WW. I am just reminding you to look at her this way, when you know that she is trying hard to better herself.
I am very goal oriented. See my tagline? I truly believe in it;
"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone."
OK So you didnt chose to have your WW have an affair. I get that. You dont chose to be all mixed up about it. I also get that. But in my life when I encounter traumatic moments I tend to evaluate my options, decide and implement. Im totally unafraid to reevaluate and change my decision, but I try to keep on a steady, constant path out of the shithole I have been dropped in.
Its sort of like if you imagine being on a boat that sinks in the middle of a large lake. You can tread water and drown or you can swim east because you evaluate thats the shortest route to land. Swimming half a mile east, then one mile west, then one mile east
thats not going to get you anywhere positive. Its OK to head north because you see a reef thats closer than shore. Its OK to stop swimming to rest for a minute. But you constantly evaluate, decide and implement.
I also think we know when a marriage is over. I think one experiences a feeling of acceptance. Frankly Im not sure you are there yet
So my advice is going to be based on how to reconcile with your wife
About your wife
Ive referred a bit to our LEO training and background. Like me you must have arrested a bunch of people. You know you have basically two groups; the group that doesnt give a shit, are totally unafraid, feel no remorse or shame
and then the group of frightened, ashamed people. As a rule you see the former several times over the years, the later tend to be one-time criminals.
And you tend to treat these people in as neutral and professional way as you can. Its not our job to judge or carry out punishment so you listen to their excuses, gather their stories and do the report. So even if I do have a feeling OM saw a weakness and pursued it then I am not in any way diminishing the simple fact she had an affair.
I see most WS in the latter group. Thats where I would place your wife; a one-time criminal who might learn from this experience and change her ways. Granted if your examination of your childrens paternity shows differently I would change my mind but based on what you have posted so far I think this is a one off event.
The 180 is a mantra here on SI and its an extremely good and useful tool.
Its not necessarily the best tool if you have a spouse that wants to reconcile
So Im going to suggest you use parts of it but do some other things that are not necessarily in line with the 180
OK First of all. Im all for mission statements. I believe in the spoken word and in clear and direct commands. I think its to everyones benefit that the goal is clear. So I would start by letting your wife know that she is totally free to do whatever she wants
but not as your wife.
So if she wants freedom, external validation, unlimited sex-life, more exciting dates, taller guys, and shorter guys
then she is totally free to go out and do whatever she wants. But if she is going to do ANYTHING that is outside the perceived definition of marriage
then by doing any of those things shes telling you she does not want to be married.
You also tell her that until and unless she clearly tells you she wants the marriage then you simply assume she doesnt want the marriage and will behave accordingly.
No threats, no screaming. No talk about throwing her out or not being able to afford divorce. Its really simple: if she isnt willing to accept with a free will to be in a marriage the only logical option left is ending the marriage. How to do that is simply a task.
IF she tells you she wants the marriage
. Then you two have to decide the next steps.
Its OK for you to tell her that you are having a hard time accepting reconciliation. Its OK to tell her that this will take months or even years. Its OK to tell her that you are totally messed up about feeling desire, wanting solace and seeking warmth and support from the very person that placed you in this emotional hell-hole.
You two then discuss HOW you can progress. Some suggestions:
How can she assure you and show you with actions that its over. How can she be accountable?
Both commit to IC
MC with an MC that has experience with infidelity and is pro-marriage.
Total honesty. Find a way to communicate without anger and repercussion where she can tell you all you need to know.
Talk about how its OK to feel anger and sadness towards each other.
Date nights? IF she commits to the marriage then consider creating days or evenings where you two spend time together with no reference to the infidelity. It will feel strained at first and it does not have to be the classic dinner and a movie. Just time you two spend in each others company doing something other than talk and think about the affair.
SWAT Trying to reestablish love and a relationship with your wife is not a sign of weakness. Nor is it a sign of condoning the affair. No matter how your relationship develops its more or less inevitable that the affair will always be seen in a negative light. But IMHO the most common way of recovery from infidelity is also the absolute worst form of recovery: Thats where the issues are ignored and after a couple of weeks of sleeping on the couch the couple find a way to coexist WITHOUT dealing with the issues. Please dont fall into that trap.
You hit the nail squarely on the head..No one has control over whether or not a person near and dear to him her is gonna make the choice to lie/cheat..
It sucks to be the person who is suffering the loss ..After some sympathy is expressed, the people who aren't our true friends avoid us like the plague.
These superficial people tend to treat us like we are contagious..The reason why is because they have a fear of being triggered into sadness.. They don't want to be reminded that someday they will go thru a tough time of some sort..NO ONE has complete control over when bad things will happen to him or her...
Infidelity is one of those extremely traumatic life changing events that we have no control over..
We don't have control over how another person chooses to cope with life...
Influence maybe, control no.....
Some people cope with life by overworking, overeating, drinking too much alcohol, doing drugs, having affairs..
IMHO all we can do is trust ourselves in how we will react to the evil stuff that the world dishes out to us.....We can learn to enjoy our own company... Cultivate the ability and desire to make new friends as often as we want..Enjoying our own company and our friends company won't make us immune from any evil that comes our way, but it sure serves as a good buffer..
Focus on who you were before you assumed the role of husband..Was there a part of yourself that you were asked to sacrifice in order to make your marriage smooth sailing ? For instance did you give up touring in a band, or training for olympic swimming? Maybe it is time to pick up some of the things you used to like doing but gave up...
Having your own life in art, music or athletics is a solace in distraction whenever you need it..
A good way to cope and to survive the bad things that we have no control over is to reach out.. Reaching out to others will help us to learn or relearn the things that we need to know to heal and thrive..
I am glad that you are reaching out to us.....
Putting the focus on you and your healing will serve you well whether R or D..
You don't have to make any commitments to stay M or to D at this point unless you feel that you are ready to..
As long as you are PROTECTED legally and financially, you may have the luxury of letting time unfold to give you greater clarity into your own feelings and your wife's behavior (remorse, truthfulness) over the long term..
If your wife is remorseful she won't demand any commitment from you to stay or go .. She will understand and accept being in limbo for the foreseeable future.. She will patiently wait for you to move forward in one way or another..
[This message edited by doggiediva at 7:04 PM, April 3rd (Thursday)]
Bigger is right on the money.
But I will reiterate one crucial pint.
Your wife needs a good shrink.
She lied.
She cheated.
And she lied before she married you.....
Think about that.
And while I am pro reconciliation it was right of you to give her Divorce papers.
She needed the wakeup call those papers bring.
I tried to be the best husband I could be, to bad it wasn't enough for WW.
Your emotions are all over the place and you know it. This is normal.
When your emotions calm down you are going to realize something very important.
Your wife's infidelity is no reflection on you as a man or husband.
She chose to cheat. She chose to lie. She chose to believe the words of a liar.
That is telling. It tells you what kind of person she really is. And it kills you because you love and trusted her.
But maybe, just maybe she truly wants to be the woman you thought she was.
So Swat man how much do you love her?
Do you love her enough to hold her feet to the fire? To have her prove just how much she loves you and your family?
Do you love her enough to give her the time to figure out who she is and why she made such crappy decisions?
Think about it. Time is on your side.
Keep fighting the good fight my friend. You are in good hands here.
A betrayal of the magnitude of adultery calls for cutting the adulterer out of your life....Society in general and all of the major religions stand behind this..
You don't have to carry on with married life or family life as if nothing happened if you decide to give your WW time to figure things out..
Trying to pretend for your family and friends that everything is okay in the M is like trying to do a marathon or walkathon on a newly fractured leg..
It might be better for these people to know that you have an event in your life that is causing you to limp or struggle for the time being..
Your WW knew what she stood to lose when she made her decisions to cheat..
Don't accept anything less than undying gratitude from your WW for the very fact that you are even speaking to her..
ANY impatience or arrogance on your WW's part for the way you are processing things is inappropriate..
You are the one who gets to decide if there is an R..You are also the one who gets to decide what R looks like..
[This message edited by doggiediva at 9:14 AM, April 4th (Friday)]
I will add this, talk is cheap. She is saying a lot of things right now, but you have to look at what she says in the context of what she does.
Your background gives you a solid foundation with this part.
Control in the cotnext of infidelity is a really odd thing. One thing that got pointed out to me early on in this ride was that any control I thought I may have had over my W wasn't really there to be gin with. IF she wants to do X, y or Z she will.
Bigger's comment is spot on with the "free will" comments. If she works on the M because it is what she thinks she ought to do, it won't last. Either of you can leave the M at any time, really for any reason. What she needs to focus on is, why would you want to stay ?
Lying is something that can be changed. Not communicating is something that can be fixed and being immature in dealing with adult emotions can also be addressed. However if all of these things are done to "just stay married," that is a weak foundation to build Reconciliation on.
Remorse and forgiveness are things that are a lot more complex and a lot more varied that most people will admit. You can't think of them as either black or white. They take many forms and once you see a newer version of it, you realize what you saw before wasn't real "remorse."
So just to illustrate the paternity example cited above:
Your W with regret would say, " Yes you can check. I have nothing to hide."
Your W with deep and true remorse would say," Based on my actions, I understand why that concerns you. I know for a fact that they are all your children. However, if this is something you are worried about, I will get a kit and let you collect and submit the samples. I don't want you to be concerned about this anymore and I am sorry my actions have destroyed your trust in me."
Regret is passive. Remorse is very active and takes into account your feeling.
Take care man. Sorry you have to be here, but glad you found us.
[This message edited by numb&dumb at 10:56 AM, April 4th (Friday)]
Dday 8/31/11. ONS that occurred 3 years earlier. Lied to for 3 years.
Every truth comes to light in a long enough timeline.
Its not necessarily the best tool if you have a spouse that wants to reconcile
So Im going to suggest you use parts of it but do some other things that are not necessarily in line with the 180
So Im going to suggest you use parts of it but do some other things that are not necessarily in line with the 180
I just want to highlight this part of bigger's post. I believe this to be extremely true.
Your wife's pseudo angst is based on what - you working too hard, she somehow conjured up that she had lost you, you're too good, this guy came on to her, she deserved to be hurt. None of these are reasons, they are excuses taken from the damsel in distress handbook.
As women, I hate to say it but any of us with even minimal attractiveness get hit on occasionally, married or not, and have and will our whole lives. Your wife being attractive as you say she is, she would be used to this and used to averting it and turning it down. My little teen daughter already knows how to say "eff off" to men, and the more assertive they are the stronger she says "eff off" just like it's a reflex. So I find little excuse for grown women who act like some big bad man took advantage of their weak little selves. (not saying he's not bad, he sounds like a real jerk)
Anyway, I can't help throwing this out there so you can be aware that this is a common game play. Now, that does not mean women have to act tough or anything, we can be completely feminine and soft and love to depend on our men. But that's different than jerking men's protective instincts and pride around by acting helpless.
Whenever she tries to pull that on you, divert it back to her and don't fall for it. You can't have a woman or trust a woman who creates weakness in herself and tries to use it as some sort of weapon. She better get strong or get packing. I mean that's what I think but you don't have to listen to me.
OM was sighted today walking in the procession wearing a suit and tie. OM was officially terminated on Wednesday. Maybe I'm getting a little better. I saw OM and felt nothing. I just wanted to pay my respect for the fallen officer. When it comes down to it, OM showed some class today and did what I would have expected of him for several years. Today he was a good human being.
[This message edited by doggiediva at 11:54 PM, April 4th (Friday)]
Maybe a new thread
I guess just spending some time away from WW shows me how she really thinks and acts. Prior to me leaving for the funeral, she was helpful and made sure everything I needed was ready. Being in the guest suite has kept us separated for the most part. I've been trying to keep conversations about the household and kids not us. So now that I am back and did not talk with WW for two whole days, she is pouting. This seems to have upset WW and I have actually been listening to what she is saying and not allowing my feelings or perceptions to cloud the conversation. Not so sure I like what I am hearing.
Why does she wait until I'm ready to leave with the kids to say this? Why didn't she tell me right away and call the police? After all that is what she said she would do in her NC letter. I just don't think she gets it.
Thanks for letting me vent. Don't want my kids to see me upset. Looks like I was wrong again OM is still a POS.
[This message edited by SWAT70 at 9:30 AM, April 5th (Saturday)]
This OM calling is a real problem. After everything that has happened, he still does this crap. I guess he doesn't know when in the hell to stop.
You probably know better than most what the next best step is, but I guess some legal steps against this OM, a restraining order for one thing.
Your wife is a little selfish and doesn't understand what she has done. She has destroyed the intimacy and romance in the marriage for years to come but she just isn't going to accept this. She won't acknowledge the necessary hard work and pain that reconciliation entails. Your WW wants relatively instant healing and if you don't deliver maybe the OM has an opportunity to get further revenge.
This is quite a common issue in marriages tainted with adultery. The problem of the impatient WS.
Bro, I was not going to comment yesterday. POS showing up to MARCH? Holy Shit!!! I would have bitch slapped his ass back into the dark corner where he belonged. You realize that had things turned out differently for you he would have marched for you?
WW just told me OM called her last night and he wanted her to know I was "drunk and all over tons of women."
Be interesting to see if she follows through. TBH, I don't know whether or not she's too scared to do it or trying to keep plan B viable.
Do your brothers(force) know what he's doing now?
Well when I saw him yesterday I was in formation with our honor guard. Surprisingly I was shocked but not upset he was there. We had been to other LEO funerals together and it was within the state we live in so I guess way deep down I knew he could be there.
While I as with the kids, my DD asked me why mommy was so sad. Apparently WW has been really upset about this. DD says mommy has been crying a lot and saying she was sorry to the kids. DD said she asked mommy why she was sorry. WW told her for hurting your daddy.
My MIL called and asked how I was doing. MIL is very upset over the situation and asked me if I could ever forgive WW. I told her I've probably already forgiven her. I just don't know if I will be able to stay with WW. MIL said she understood and hoped I was taking care of myself. According to MIL I seem to be very calm about this mess and she is afraid I'm bottling everything up inside. I told her I've seen an IC and I'll continue to see her for sometime.
I've gotten a couple of emails and text messages from WW asking to have a talk with me. She says she has a lot to talk about but knows I'm avoiding her for my own well being. WW says she understand that I need my time and space, but just wanted me to know some things that may have a bearing on my decisions. When I read those I felt like I had been punched in the gut. What if there is more? I'm going to talk to her later. This maybe the end of us I just don't know.
This is manipulation..and she is using your child.
And if it's not manipulation? Then it's just a shitty thing to do to those kids. Mommy is crying..she is sad..she hurt daddy..daddy didn't come home one night..kids get scared and confused.
It's ok to cry in front of your children. But what she is doing is not ok.
Just about everyone does know. To be honest that's kind of embarrassing.
Yep, it is. Curious as to why they didn't close ranks around you. I was hoping for a better response. I'll bet you're not the only one he's done this to. Deserves to be squished.
Came home to find the WW did call and filed a complaint against OM.
I've gotten a couple of emails and text messages from WW asking to have a talk with me. She says she has a lot to talk about but knows I'm avoiding her for my own well being. WW says she understand that I need my time and space, but just wanted me to know some things that may have a bearing on my decisions.
Great signs. I won't yet go as far as to say she's remorseful(proven through actions over time), but very positive indications.
What if there is more? I'm going to talk to her later. This maybe the end of us I just don't know.
Only you will know that. If there is more, assuming you are open to R, complete, open honesty is the only way to get there. There's a level to the details though. You likely(as did I) will want to know it all. A warning, be sure, once you *know* it, you can't unknow it. Personally, the details were *better* than what my imagination was able to provide.
I told her I've probably already forgiven her. I just don't know if I will be able to stay with WW.
I forgave pretty quickly myself. I gave myself a year to figure my own answers though. Around 8 months past D-day, I was pleasantly surprised to *see* FWW actively remorseful. At a year, I told her that R was/is my goal and began my quest to repair/rebuild the M. The previous year, I was fixing me. Figuring out who I was.
A little of my background. I've been in 5 long term relationships(2 M's). All 5 women have cheated(I've pretty well figured out I've got a busted picker ). Instant deal-breaker the first 4 times(including the 1st M). I mean I *knew* as soon as I found out. This time, there were questions.
My suggestion to you is to figure yourself out before you make a final determination. Sounds like you are on the right path. A word of caution. You are on the rollercoaster from hell brother. What you feel today, heck, this hour can and will change on a dime. Wait until you stabilize a little before you make a final determination.
it's just a shitty thing to do to those kids. Mommy is crying..she is sad..she hurt daddy..daddy didn't come home one night..kids get scared and confused.
I agree with confused. A convo with WW is in order. If she can't hold her shit together, would it be possible for her to go stay with MIL? The kids desperately need stability right now, if she can't provide it, you need to.
OM was not well liked due to the way he did treat a lot of the other officers. One guy transferred back to patrol so he never had to deal with OM. Said he didn't like the way OM would act around other officers wives or girlfriends.
I'll be really honest I'm nervous right now. WW is driving the kids to grandparents so we can talk.
WW then broke down and said she was sorry for everything. For the cheating and the lies. She said she was most sorry for hurting me and disrespecting me and our marriage. WW said the affair was actually fairly brief and they were only together three times, with actual sex occurring the last time. She was really upset that it occurred the day I was hurt. She said that at that time she knew I never cheated. She said it was like a light went off in her head. That little light became a huge neon sign that said WTF are you doing.
WW had gone out of town with OM, she said she couldn't do "it" anywhere around town. She said she had turned her phone off because she didn't want any reminders of me. When she turned her phone on it was blowing up. She read the texts and messages and started to panic. She said she thought I was going to die. When she saw me in the hospital she was so happy I was alive and She was feeling so guilty she was afraid to confess. WW said she knew way deep down that I knew and everything would eventually be ruined. She wanted to spend as much time with me as possible. WW said she knew how I felt about cheating and was afraid I would just leave her. WW said she is most sad about ruining my relationship with her family.
I asked WW to not involve the children and she apologized for that as well. She said she was having a bad time and was talking to BIL on the phone and DD heard her crying. My daughter has some emotional issues and is very empathetic to other people when they are hurting. She gets very upset to see anyone she loves hurting in any way. WW apologized again and said she will try to keep "her" problems to herself. WW said her IC has been very hard on her, but understands she needs to be held accountable for her actions.
I have to say I haven't cried this much since I broke my arm when I was a child. WW asked me to please reconsider our separation and not make any decisions about a divorce. She has asked for some time. She said she wanted time to show me how much she does love me and wants our marriage. She wants to show me she can change and be a better person. She wants to show me the respect she should have shown me all along. WW did not sugar coat anything as far as I can tell. She did not down play anything. She said the sex with OM was good but it wasn't like what we had. She said he did fulfill something she always wanted but would never have asked me for. Apparently WW is extremely submissive, sorry if that's TMI. WW said she didn't want me to think she was a slut or a freak. My only reply to that was that I never thought she was until she let another man inside her. I would have given her anything she wanted or needed and not just in the bedroom.
What does everyone think? To me she appears to get it. She hasn't had any actual contact with OM, but he has tried. From what I can see she shut him down right after I was hurt and did so for several months. She just ignored him but after I confronted her she did send her NC letter and today she filed a complaint against him. She even requested charges be filed and asked for a temporary order of protection.
I love this woman with all of my being. She is beautiful, funny, smart (well most of the time), she is the mother of my beautiful children and my truly best friend. I want to be able to trust her again. I know it will not happen right away or even the foreseeable future. Do you all think we have a chance? Can we fix this?
You can definitely reconcile given your wife is fully remorseful. The big worry is that after this all dies down in a few years, will she revert to this lack of respect for you she mentioned. Most adultery is rooted in either extreme resentment ; a lack of respect or both. Address this issue now before marriage rebuilding - why did she think so little of you that she permanently stained your marriage with this affair.
I would start the process of reconciliation at a slow pace according to how you feel. Sleep separately until you are ready to resume sexual relations and just take everything at your tempo not hers. Don't push yourself; this something you will control and your wife will have to accept this. Remind her that something unique has been lost, she is no longer a faithful wife and you will forgive but never forget.
God I write way to much.
Lol, no, you don't. There is no better place to get it all out. We've all BTDT.
For example
She said it was like a light went off in her head. That little light became a huge neon sign that said WTF are you doing.
I love this woman with all of my being. She is beautiful, funny, smart (well most of the time), she is the mother of my beautiful children and my truly best friend. I want to be able to trust her again. I know it will not happen right away or even the foreseeable future. Do you all think we have a chance? Can we fix this?
Yes, you can. I won't sugar coat things and tell you it will be easy. There is literally going to be hell to pay. Mind movies, roller coaster emotions etc. It's generally accepted that it is a 2-5 year process. You will change your mind minute to minute, hour to hour and day to day.
We're here. Keep writing.
I personally insisted my WH sleep in another room for 6 months while we conducted a chaste brother/sister reconciliation. There was no hostility or screaming anger, but I did more things on my own. I even went on vacation alone and left him with the kids.
Its important that your relationship change - don't go back to what you had. Keep your wife a little insecure and not sure of where she stands. You must never allow her to become complacent with the marriage again, take you for granted or lose respect for you like she did with her affair.
I even told WH that I would re-evaluate our relationship again when the kids left for college. If I wasn't fully satisfied I'm gone. Thats what I mean about never allowing your WW to become complacent again. She dumped over your old marriage so there is no sense in rebuilding a clone - it has to be new and original.
This might be a helpful read for you Swat:
We would have an argument and separate for a while. I would run or hit the gym. I would be calm when I got back and apologize. WW on the other hand held her resentment in and I believe it just kept growing. All the while telling me she was fine and we were alright.
I think I understand how she was able to become the person she was during her affair. That person was not the person I married and I realize I should have seen it sooner. The nasty comments and her cold demeanor. I guess in a way I avoided or ignored the problems to. I think I see and have enough drama at work that I avoided it at home.
I can tell you that's not going to happen again.
Just us time and relaxing.
Best wishes to the both of you.
Never forget what is worth remembering or remember what is best forgotten.
This is quite a common issue in marriages tainted with adultery. The problem of the impatient WS.******
This really resonates with WH and I..Our marriage was difficult to begin with but the added layer of cheating and deceit on my WH's part made working on the marriage impossible..
Part of me was contemplating D even before I knew of WH's cheating..I found his volatile temper and emotional abuse increasingly hard to deal with as I got older..He did not put in any work to support us financially, for our future..I was the one with all of the unwanted pressure to make sure we as a family would be okay..I was the one who financed or or cosigned with my kids for their college classes when needed..
Any WS who is impatient for R to happen his or her way, impatient for the limbo to end is not truly remorseful..This person remains selfish..R with this kind of spouse? IMHO? Hell no !
[This message edited by doggiediva at 4:59 PM, April 6th (Sunday)]
You have to ensure this does not happen again and that your selfish wife is held to account for her sexual adventure. I'm sure she looks ravishing in her pj's but her goal is to seduce you and short circuit the otherwise painful process of rebuilding by exploiting your carnal needs.
Your wife told you that she enjoyed sex with the OM and that he did something special to her which she enjoyed greatly. That would piss me off royally, especially since she did not need to tell you this. She has a lot of growing up to do and you need to get tough and make her realize that what she did was a horrible betrayal and not a jolly, spiffing adventure..
Are you they she used a condom during sex? During the BJ's? Ask her again. If she honest enough to tell you about the exciting sex with OM maybe she'll reveal more about the details.
OK now. Your right I have been way to lenient with WW. I need her to step up and take responsibility and fix the mess she made of our marriage. The timing of the whole scenario was suspect from the beginning. WW know the academy class I was teaching was only postponed for a week due to the funeral and several instructors would not be available. I'm teaching today and to be honest it is kind of good for my ego.
I mean I'm a 45 year old man who has lost some hair but am I the best shape of my life. WW affair helped me lose those five or was it twenty five pesky extra pounds. I teach DT and we started what we call instructor challenges. We would not ask anyone to do or try to do anything we would not do. So I guess I'm a sit up machine. Not one recruit has been able to keep up and not one is even close.
I believe WW was taking the opportunity to try to get some type of "insurance" that I was going to forgive and forget. I have td WW forgiveness is the easy part. It's the forgetting I may not get past.
The condom question has plagued me for a while. I've heard so much about waywards and not using condoms. WW has said all along they used condoms and she did get negative results for her std tests. To be honest the "type" of sex she had with OM and whether it was special or not doesn't seem to bother me at this point. I mean is she wanted to be used, she got it. I don't understand how or why she feels they way she did or does.
Tommorrow I'll probably feel different. The roller coaster sure sucks. But hey all my negative emotions are whipping the young kids butts.
[This message edited by doggiediva at 9:42 AM, April 7th (Monday)]
What gets me upset is the fact she took what was special and sh!t on it. WW allowed the POS inside of her body.
From her perspective she is still your woman because there was no emotional relationship with OM. From your POV she is no longer exclusively yours and the deeply intimate minutes she shared with OM are part of your marriage.
If she doesn't learn the tragedy of what she has done, she may be doomed to repeat. At least she will soon get angry with your tardiness in 'forgetting' her harmless escapade and moving on.
God knows you have been dealt two gigantic blows at the same time, no, three things: wife infidelity, OM being someone who should have been like a brother to you, and the death of a fallen work brother.
Your fellow workers are suffering due to the death of one of their own, your children are suffering due to the death of the innocence of the marriage between their parents. you have obviously risen noblely in response to both of these situations and to the people who need you in both of these situations. And on top of it, you responded to OM's terrible actions by showing him you aren't ashamed and you are willing to go scorched earth on him.
I think your wife is taking advantage of this in you. You are in strong mode, for everyone. You are in handling-everything mode. You probably feel even somewhat invigorated when you are in this mode? She's riding this energy, perhaps? Hoping to jump in and be one of the victims (again with the damsel in distress thing) whom needs help and your strength at this moment?
Plus, I get a real feeling she is worried about a revenge affair. She's for sure gonna pull out all the stops with trying to keep you sexually interested in her.
From this board and in my own life, it seems caught cheaters respond one of two ways 1)suddenly and immediately decide they are capable of being the perfect spouse and suddenly deciding they will do anything to keep BS, or 2)become defensive maybe abusive and maybe even leave for the AP
(in case you haven't noticed I tend to think in sets of twos, with subcategories under each. It helps me find equilibrium in situations that are chaotic. )
I always find it sad when WS are so immediately able to pull out all the stops for the marriage AFTER they have all but murdered the marriage with an affair. It reeks of such selfishness.
Protect your heart, take all the space you need to observe this situation you are going through and your wife's actions.
Thanks for an interesting perspective about reasonably attractive women being hit on all the time. I had never actually though about that until now. I find that a bit of a revelation,
Glad to provide some insight. I will start a thread in general.
Swat, are you the type of person who is at your strongest when others are at their weakest? You rise to your best when other's are at their worse? You do these things instinctively regardless of whether or not it benefits yourself? You might even thrive on it?
In a nutshell, she is going to demand that you heal quickly. No 2 - 5 years will be accepted; she's going to want you over this minor infraction in just a few days/weeks and she'll use sex to achieve this.
She doesn't understand the male perspective of another man taking your woman and the humiliation this has exposed you to - what an insensitive clod. From her POV, she loves you not him, so where's the hurt? As I said she isn't involved with the OM emotionally, so your WW just can't grasp your sense of loss and betrayal. Her inability to understand your grief is going to pose a significant issue for you to deal with in the coming months. Her adultery will change your relationship and sadly I don't think she will be happy with the changes.
Outofthedeep. Your absolutely right. I do thrive in these types of situations. I have always done what I thought was the right thing when people needed help. I guess I just need someone to be strong for me. I can't fix this and that hurts.
I'm out of the house for two weeks, except for the weekend. I think I'm either going to move out or ask WW to move out for a while. I need to see what she does and if she is willing to work on her problems. WW has shown some positive growth and admits I really never did anything wrong, yet she still choose to cheat. WW says she resented things and her resentment grew. But she was selfish and disrespectful and did not care about me or our marriage for a brief amount of time. I have asked her why. She says she does not know right now. If she can't figure out why and fix her issues. We have nothing left. I'll be the best father I can be to my kids and move on. It will hurt and it's is not what I wanted for my marriage. But I will be alright.
I gather your sensible objective is to face your wife with the prospect of losing her marriage because of her adultery. Hoping to shock her into the realization that what she did was very serious, and requires genuine deep remorse. Maybe she will 'get it' before separation is necessary.
I have asked her why. She says she does not know right now. If she can't figure out why and fix her issues. We have nothing left. I'll be the best father I can be to my kids and move on.
FYI, there's probably never going to be a *why* that is acceptable to you. It might be that the *why* only is understandable to her and allows her to fix her issues. Take the time for yourself.
IMO, sounds like she's trying. It is a process. Mine took 8 months of the year I had allotted myself to figure out remorse. Why don't you suggest the book "Not Just Friends" to her as well as "After the Affair"> Both are great resources for both of you.
Run the probies into the ground!
Got kind of a shock. During a break a female recruit asked where I was staying and if I would be going out at night. I told the entire group that personal questions were not allowed. Later I went to a local cop bar with several other instructors and a couple of the local PD I know. Said recruit and several other females were there. The bartender said they were the "Badge bunny brigade" which kind of made me laugh. After a while a group of five young ladies sat next to me. They were a rather attractive bunch probably mid twenties to early thirties. They started talking a little bit and I noticed at least three engagement or wedding rings. They asked me if I wanted to hang out and I said no I'm married. Their reply "We didn't see a ring and we've never seen you here before." What your wife doesn't know won't hurt her." To tell you the truth that really pissed me off. I said "maybe she wouldn't know. But I would. "
In a way I was kind of happy that some attractive young things wanted to chat me up. But I never started any conversation and I shut them down rather quickly. The comment about my wife would never know struck a cord with me. Did WW think this? Maybe I'm just old I don't know. But even with everything WW has done and some of the things she said during the affair. I could never cheat on her. Some people have posted WW maybe afraid of a revenge affair and I know she portrayed hers as one.
I noticed at least one of the young women (wearing a ring I might add) did leave with a strapping young man. I hope he as her husband or fiancé. Cause to be honest seeing it kind of made me sick. Is it really that easy? Cause I just couldn't fathom doing that.
I was kind of shocked when they approached me. I thought I was giving off a I want to be left alone vibe, not a hey I want to cheat on my wife one.
Lol, *blood in the water*. You're wounded. You've just met the female versions of Knights In Shining Armor and predators. It will happen again.
" What your wife doesn't know won't hurt her."
Is this the first time you've been an instructor? Anytime training/instruction takes place over an hour from home, the low boundary folks seem to take advantage of the *What happens here stays here" meme.
To tell you the truth that really pissed me off. I said "maybe she wouldn't know. But I would. "
Damn, you make me proud to be a man. WTG bro.
OKnow your absolutely right. This mess has ruined my marriage and changed me greatly. I'm not so sure WW is going to like the new me or what needs to happen for a new marriage.
I think your wife hinted why she was unfaithful when she admitted the sex was good and fulfilled hidden needs. She was hit on by the OM and tempted by the idea of a short, exciting sexual affair. Ramped up some temporary anger/resentment to make it easier to cheat, then went for it, never intending for you to find out.
She probably would have continued the affair for a few weeks to milk every drop of sexual interest, then ended it. She would then turn off the resentment and start being nice to you again. Back to being a respectable married woman with three young children. An exercise in selfishness, but not uncommon given the present day temptations of Facebook, Ashley Madison etc.
The affair would also settle past grudges she has with you; pretty common in most marriages. She got to 'balance' things, so as to speak and you would never know about it. Very convenient revenge without any pain on both sides.
Just didn't work out the way she planned; now she has a nightmare to deal with.
I think your wife hinted why she was unfaithful when she admitted the sex was good and fulfilled hidden needs. She was hit on by the OM and tempted by the idea of a short, exciting sexual affair. Ramped up some temporary anger/resentment to make it easier to cheat, then went for it, never intending for you to find out.
She probably would have continued the affair for a few weeks to milk every drop of sexual interest, then ended it. She would then turn off the resentment and start being nice to you again. Back to being a respectable married woman with three young children. An exercise in selfishness, but not uncommon given the present day temptations of Facebook, Ashley Madison etc.
The affair would also settle past grudges she has with you; pretty common in most marriages. She got to 'balance' things, so as to speak and you would never know about it. Very convenient revenge without any pain on both sides.
Just didn't work out the way she planned; now she has a nightmare to deal with.
The affair would also settle past grudges she has with you; pretty common in most marriages. She got to 'balance' things, so as to speak and you would never know about it. Very convenient revenge without any pain on both sides.
Just didn't work out the way she planned; now she has a nightmare to deal with.
I believe this theory, also. Your WW may not even grasp this yet, but I would not be surprised if she "gets it" real soon...if not already.
And that is where she has to focus---on everything that led up to the affair: the sexual curiosity; the allowed flattery and moves by the OM; her interest in the OM, and her perceived resentment towards you. She has plenty of work ahead of herself. But, if she does put in the effort, I would be surprised if you didn't find yourself starting to feel a little more "normal".
It is all part of the rebuilding process.
(not implying that they wouldn't otherwise, but...with all the other conscience attempts from WW to play this A outcome)
A bunch of gorgeous 20/30-somethings, most of whom were wearing rings, completely aggressive and even that stupid "what you wife won't know" line. So, most of them committed, gorgeous, and looking for an A. Am I reading that right? Totally possible, but I'm a suspicious person.
I'm sure it's what 5454 said though, blood in the water.
But well I thought I'd give you the benefit of my devious mind and wild imagination and throw that out there. I gotta admit I've had more than one gf suggest something similar to catch a guy cheating.
Swat, do you think your wife could have set up those women to hit on you?
... or your favorite best friend OM ?
Unlikely, but I wouldn't put it past a scumbag like that.
Most likely, you ended up in a bar with people that have fallen for the miserable Hollywood version of marriage being sold to the masses. Decency, honor, commitment, and self respect are relics it seems.
[This message edited by twisted at 8:40 AM, April 8th (Tuesday)]
You ask what we reading your situation think about your WW and whether she gets it.
I think shes showing positive signs.
SWAT I guess my view on how to deal with situations like yours are not necessarily in line with what many suggest. Thats OK there is no black and white here and nobody should (nor could) claim to have the perfect solution.
I think one of the main reasons we are so mixed up after discovering infidelity is because we arent expecting it
We cant prepare (and maybe we shouldnt). So try substituting infidelity with another trauma, one we might be better able to relate to.
Imagine you wake up and your house is on fire
(I think I used this simile in my first post to you but bear with me
You cant just lie there looking at the flames and mutter how unjust the situation is. You cant tell yourself that since it was your wife that left the stove on and thereby caused the fire then she should call 911. You cant save one child and then expect the wife to save the other. You cant get half your valuables out and then sit down and pout while your wife tries to get the other half
What you can do is evaluate whether the fire destroys the foundations of your house or whether you can rebuild.
I am one of those that think infidelity DEMANDS we act. It DEMANDS we decide. Just like the fire demands we wake up, get everyone out, get help, extinguish the flames and save what valuables we can
The tricky part is evaluating what decisions are reversible and what decisions arent.
I think the big issue is evaluating what we need and what we want and is attainable and then acting to reach a goal. OK I can understand that you arent clear on what you want. But then you have to think: Is my indecisiveness good for me and those that depend on me? (In your case your children). Are my actions today helping in moving out of infidelity?
OK I want to be very clear on one issue: IMHO infidelity can only end in two positive ways. Divorce or reconciliation. Unfortunately the third path is the one most chosen: a situation where the underlying issues arent dealt with and both partners learn to live with the big elephant being dragged around in the marriage.
SWAT If you truly feel that you cant learn to live with the fact your WW cheated and will always see her as an adulteress
Then there is no way you can ever regain or recreate a true marriage. File.
If however you think you COULD get pass these issues and IF you are willing to try
Then start reconciliation. Personally I think this is where you are at. And frankly I am not sure shunning her, ignoring her, not responding to her, an unclear and undefined separation
none of those are beneficial for reconciliation.
In an older post you say (when told OM had been in touch) that you told your wife:
My reply was this is your mess. You fix it.
SWAT IMHO that would ONLY apply if you have already checked out of the marriage.
The mind-boggling, ground-shattering fact about reconciliation is that you are reconciling with the CAUSE of your issues.
The mess your wife dropped you into as long as you are married and plan on reconciling that is the marriages mess and thereby YOUR mess. YOU and WIFE need to handle OM being in contact IF you are still in the marriage.
And SWAT Like I have already said there are many different suggestions on how to deal with infidelity but I dont think its your prerogative or role to dish out punishment to your wife. To start off with: What the hell is appropriate punishment for infidelity? I cant think of any.
SWAT Maybe the only time I was ever in a law-enforcement situation I felt I didnt control was when I had a short-term partner that allowed a situation to escalate. He had a couple of years experience on me and therefore the lead-officer in dealing with some amphetamine-cooked gang members. I saw he was dealing wrongly with them and a tense situation was escalating into what could turn into a physically dangerous situation. When he had lost complete control and a couple of the guys more or less cornered him up against a wall I didnt say this is your mess. You fix it. I stepped in, defused the situation and solved the problem. That SWAT is what your marriage needs.
This site was founded by a couple that reconciled after infidelity. Some of the admins and moderators are reconciled as BS or WS. I think all of them wanted their WS to suffer but I also venture that none of them really saw or had any benefit from it. I would hope that every now and then a reconciled BS looks at his/her spouse and thinks thank God I managed to get over my initial reactions and work things out. I would hope a reconciled WS looks at his/her spouse and thinks Thank God we managed to put the work into being where we are and I hope I can someday forgive myself for my affair.
And SWAT I dont see your wife as a super-manipulative, Machiavellian sex fiend. I see her as a super-confused and worried woman who does not have the benefit of a sounding board like SI
Her anger and worried after your day away
Well SWAT; you are in a profession with a higher than average suicide rate, a macho society where your manhood might be seen as having been subject to shame, a society where guns are aplenty (and yes SWAT I sucked my barrel and thought about it
). She is probably just as confused as you are, possibly even more so.
I wont EVER excuse her affair and it will ALWAYS be her fault her decision. But it really sounds as if OM saw a crack and pounced on it. Should she have allowed it? NO WAY.
I want to leave you with this one task; one exercise:
Sit down and THINK. Do I want to be married to this woman?
Dont think do I want this marriage or can I forgive her. Only think Do I want to be married with this woman.
Whatever marriage comes out of R will be a completely new one IF YOU RECONCILE.
If however you come to the conclusion that you dont want to be married to her
tell her so. And then start work on emotionally, physically and financially separating.
Bigger...Thank you for your post. Everyone is different and they deal with problems differently. I've always been the fixer, you have a problem. I'll do my best to fix it. I've been the strong one for many of my friends, family and co workers. But I can't fix this and that hurts me. It just seems the biggest challenge of my life and I'm failing. To answer your question or really MY question....yes I want to be married to my wife. I just don't know if I can. Does that make any sense? I love her more than anything and she has done so much improving. I think she is either on this site or one like it. WW is trying and I know she is getting IC and wants us to start MC. I see this and love her for it, but then "slap" I remember. I don't even get angry just sad. I know I'm better than this. I know I'm better than OM. I just can't remember that all of the time. I'm hoping I can get to the point where I can. Because I don't want to hurt my wife or my family. I get some people feel I'm punishing her and maybe deep down I am.
I have an IC appointment tommorrow so maybe we can figure some things out.
I know I'm better than this. I know I'm better than OM.
Damn right bro.
[This message edited by 1985 at 11:54 AM, April 8th (Tuesday)]
Thank you both. Actually thank you everyone. I'm speechless right now.
Come on...I sure hope no one put those women up to it. Massive blow to the ego
So sorry Swat!! That's not what I meant.
I'll be honest, I am in the camp of having little trust in your WW. So consider me on the dark side in my opinions?? I admit I'm one jaded girl at the moment, and it pours into my view of everything, sorry.
For what it's worth, my exWH sent his lay-of-the-month to try to come on to my current husband when we first started dating. yeah, ex cheated on me, and then didn't want me moving on. Luckily for current husband he told me about the encounter, and long story short by description, timing, her car, a few things my ex had said, etc it was clear who it was and what was going on. As crazy as that sounds, it was typical of my ex's manipulation.
People are such jerks,
And, to be honest, it made me really sad that those women wearing rings were out affair fishing, probably while some poor guy was waiting at home. A part of me wanted to convince myself that people aren't just that terrible, all the time, everywhere it seems. But they are.
Best of luck Swat.
I have this theory and both my personal experience and what I have heard others say sort of supports the theory: When faced with an extremely dire and hard choice you feel a sense of relief and purpose once you reach a decision. Its like a feeling of inevitability that also fills you with a sense of purpose. I once listened to that guy who got caught under a boulder in Utah and had to saw off his hand. He described the very same feeling; once he decided and committed to sawing off his hand he felt fine with the idea. I felt the same when I walked in on my fiancé. I knew right away that I did not want to reconcile. I was totally comfortable with that idea.
Research shows that the majority of people that divorce regret the decision 12 months later and/or acknowledge that they could have solved their problems. I just dont want you in that statistical group. I just have this feeling based on what I have read from you that you would want to reconcile but you just dont have a clue how to do so how to control it how to fix it.
Let me suggest this beginning: Try to view your wife as two different people: W and WW. The WW is the one that had the affair. Shes the one that is going to explain why she had to have the affair and give all the reasons and excuses. Then there is the W. Shes the one you want. Exorcise the WW out of your W.
Dont see this as an argument or competition.
Tell your wife that you want to reconcile. But also tell her about your doubts and worries. Be totally open and honest about how you wonder if she has the ability to work on this and if she really gets the extend of the damage done. Reach a compromise where she commits to patience and transparency for the next 2-3 weeks and you commit to calming down, not doing anything stoopid and not committing to a divorce.
Thats it. Buy some time to simply not have to worry. Time to calm down, find a good MC, get back into routine and gather strength to deal with the marathon ahead.
Finally: I totally get what OutoftheDeep is saying. As a LEO SWAT has probably encountered that nice person that turns out to be a back-stabbing maniac. So yes there is always a chance that WW surpasses W and that WW eventually becomes your wifes dominating personality.
You have stated that you could never cheat on your wife, but she did; BJ's, penetrative sex the lot. Also it is possible a condom was not used. Whats the difference between you and her? Why do you hold fidelity as precious and she doesn't?
Since you are a first-rate husband and your wife had no intention of ever permanently swapping you for the OM, why the hell did she cheat? Because she is selfish, and obsessed with her own needs. This is not going to go away when you reconcile, neither is the loss of respect for her. You will have to accept that your wife is flawed in a really unpleasant way; sort of, fuck you I come first philosophy. This is part of her personality and will predispose her to adultery given her obsession with her own needs.
Thats why you have to make this turmoil in your marriage really painful for her as well as you. Either that or you are always going to wonder what she's doing when you are away on business. Will the OM get to enjoy your wife again? Right now I don't think you could guarantee that he won't, or a least some other guy. It like a virginity lost. She has cheated once [maybe more than once]; there is less of a bridge to cross doing it a second time.
She screwed up your marriage and all she can think about is avoiding the consequences. Some posters are virtually advocating letting her off easy. That would be a mistake.
This is an interesting and valid perspective going on here. But one I totally don't see through my eyes.
The marriage was killed, murdered, by your WW. It's dead. Nothing dead can be fixed. The only thing that can be done with a dead thing, is to grieve it properly, and accept that it is gone. A new marriage must be created.
Fixing I don't get. Solutions and problem solving and creation, I understand. I also, am one of those people who can deal beautifully with someone else's crisis. I'm a rock, I'm clear, I'm invigorated by the honor of the responsibility, and I am relentless in applying my intelligence to finding a way through whatever is going on. Funny though, I've never thought of it as "fixing". My own problems, however? It's totally different for me. I'm emotional, I'm unclear, I doubt myself, I'm fearful.
Of course, a new marriage would be built out of the same two people. With old memories, and familiarities and habits. So there would be remnants of the old marriage. But to resurrect a marriage destroyed in such a fashion as this....this just isn't how I see things.
This is not a disagreement, but rather a different perspective for you.
There's also the point brought up of the character codes of two people being completely incompatible. This is intriguing, and has caused me some thought toward my own situation. What is the outcome if it is simply that: the WS code of character and honor is simply not as important to them as it is to the BS, or their code is even nonexistent?
ETA: I'm not attempting to threadjack with these observations and questions. If they don't apply to YOU, Swat, don't get distracted by them
[This message edited by OutoftheDeep at 2:09 PM, April 8th (Tuesday)]
But protect yourself and your kids legally if you decide to be the one to move out, even if it is a temporary separation..
And know that with the passage of enough time you will be a lot more clear on whether you will want R or D...I promise you..
The issue that a lot of people contend with is that once they know what they want, especially if it is a D, they have a lot of difficulty in implementing the decision if they haven't an exit plan in place...
So while you are still in a limbo or holding pattern which may last a long time, get your legal and financial ducks in a row and continue to focus on your own growth/ strength and that of your kiddos...
IMHO, having your ducks exactly where you want them will buy you time..The time you need to let life unfold while watching the consistency of your wife's actions..
The issue that a lot of people contend with is that once they know what they want, especially if it is a D, they have a lot of difficulty in implementing the decision if they haven't an exit plan in place...
So while you are still in a limbo or holding pattern which may last a long time, get your legal and financial ducks in a row and continue to focus on your own growth/ strength and that of your kiddos...
IMHO, having your ducks exactly where you want them will buy you time..The time you need to let life unfold while watching the consistency of your wife's actions..
I drove home after work and was kind of surprised to see several cars at my house. I had forgotten that today was the monthly "Police Spouse" meeting. I walked in and found my wife talking to 10 other wives. Wife had asked them to come over after the meeting. Wife told them all what she had done and was crying. She had apologized to all of them as well since they are the wives of the guys on my patrol and tactical teams. My wife was happy to see me and ran up and hugged me. She whispered she was sorry and had asked them over so she could get some information. One of the wives is my attorney. Wife asked what she needed to do and they all rallied around her and where talking to her. My wife had told my attorney to draft an agreement for her. She wants nothing to from me if we divorce. She doesn't want anything except child support and 50/50 custody. She doesn't want to divorce, but if I did she wanted me to know this.
I just blurted out that I forgave her and wanted to try and work everything out. Wife just fell to the floor crying and saying thank you. The other wives left and we talked. I told her I'm going to try my hardest but I'm gonna have bad days and she is going to have to be there for me and our marriage. She just said thank you. You will never regret this. Wife cried until she fell asleep and I put her to bed.
I want to thank everyone. I'm praying this works out. I need this to work out. I know it's going to be difficult but I think she will fight for me and help me when I need it. So please send some good thoughts our way.
once again she is doing all the right things. only time will determine if She is able to continue. Grab ahold of something. you are about to embark on a mighty wild ride.
check out the reconciliation forum.
as always, sending you strength to get through these hard times. hoping for the best for you guys.
[This message edited by doggiediva at 9:24 PM, April 8th (Tuesday)]
She woke up and saw that she was in danger of losing her marriage and she really pulled the stops out. Going to make it much easier to R.
There's going to still be a lot of hard work for both of you, but you have a real chance of making it.
My wife told me she is ashamed of what she did and how she hurt me. She decided to tell the wives so I would not have any issues at work and to squash any rumors that may have started. My wife also wanted to apologize to my partners husband. She said that she never really believed I slept with her and is sorry for any distress it caused in her relationship.
The wife said that we still have a lot to talk about, but she has not hidden or lied about anything that happened during her affair. (Just typing that word.. )
I will be around. Hopefully posting in reconciliation and general. I expect a bumpy ride. I am hopeful and scared at the same time. I read all of the correspondences between them and she never said ILY to OM and never indicated she wanted to leave me. That and how she has acted and her admissions to family and friends gives me hope.
In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.
I agree though, strap on to something substantial because it will be a bumpy ride.
Perhaps you can brush up on the stages of grief. You will most certainly go through them. Try not to skip a step...it will not bode well for you.
I really love LOVE. I am hoping a praying that you two can work through your pain and she gets better at understanding what caused her to stray...
Just know that the old marriage is dead. Let it go. Build another one! And have fun doing it.
Well I got home this morning , slight hangover. Seems WW is a little angry with me this morning. WW followed me to my room and asked me why I didn't come home last night. My only reply was that she knew why. LODD are rough and funerals of fallen police officers are important and very emotional. Sometimes there is excessive drinking so I stayed in a hotel since I would not drive dunk and it was three hours away. I told WW she knew this. It was in my message to her before I left. Apparently she feels I should have been home. She needed to be reassured I was alright and wanted to be with our family.
Your wife should have told you right then OM called and said you were cheating. Her first instinct was to not trust you and to simmer with anger. This is a major problem. She doesn't tell you what is going on in her mind, especially when someone plants ideas. Until she can deal with her lack of trust in you, and not speaking up right away with an issue to clear the air, you will continue to have problems in your M.
This really needs to be worked out. Once you settle into R, and everything seems to be working this may come back to bite you if you don't work out how to deal with her insecurity and mistrust.
I am sorry I came late to your thread and just wanted to draw you attention to this, as it seems to have been glossed over.
[This message edited by momentintime at 12:55 PM, April 9th (Wednesday)]
"Global editing disclaimer - I edit almost everything I post, and I am not going to post why every time."...re: Bionical girl
I want to leave you with one final thought or idea.
Every now and then
maybe once a week while you drive to work or do the long jog
take time to evaluate the information you have, assess the situation, decide what to do and implement your decision
Never let your guard down because basically all you and W have decided is to start a long and hard journey. You need relatively constant progress and movement to reach your destination.
I told her one of my biggest problems right now is her inability to tell me things that are bothering her right away. Momentintime hit the nail on the head. She said she understood and would talk to her IC about it.
Isn't that why she chose to cheat on you? Because she believed you were having an affair?
So..if she didn't *really* believe that..then why did she cheat?
We have a Wayward forum - if you get to the time you're comfortable with the idea - she would find lots of help there.
Ok. So I posted in another thread the other day about me not having mind movies and how me and my wife being intimate again did not go so well that night. I got some sage advise and had a long talk with the wife last night. I'm paraphrasing a lot here so cut me some slack. The conversation creeped me out.
The whole submissive thing my wife has going on is kind of romance novelish. It appears that the wife started living a mild form of BDSM lifestyle in her late teens early twenties. She said she likes to be "forced" to do things. She said that she didn't like pain and anything she just feels she needs to be made to do things. Nothing extreme just being "dominated".
I had to tell her this confused the hell outta me. The wife had
several pages of information and photos. Thank god she got it off the Internet and they were not her. I do understand she has feelings and needs and while what she showed me is not something I understand at this point, I am trying to get it. While I'm a type A personality at work and my everyday life, it isn't something I considered to be in the bedroom and at home. I was raised to respect women and treat them gently. Blame that one on my mom. My wife has always known how I act and treat people and she loves me for it. She said she just needed more and was afraid to ask me because she was afraid I would react poorly. That one hurt. I would never have done anything to hurt her and I believe that I'm one of the most level headed people I know. I would have done anything for her, she only had to ask. To be honest she does get it and how I'm feeling. She again apologized and took responsibility for what she has done. At one point a while back she said it wouldn't have happened if it wasn't OM and she had ended their dating relationship due to him being "deviant". At the time I didn't think to question that further. After reading everything my wife gave me I understand the terminology so here it goes. OM thinks of himself as a strong dominant. He and my wife did have a relationship in the past and it involved that lifestyle. During the affair he did lie and manipulate my wife to an extent. I know she chose to do it but he was persuasive. Prior to the affair my wife said she kind of slipped into her sub role and just went with it. She is not using that as an excuse she was just explaining her thoughts. OM was telling her all of his lies and played on her sub nature and insecurities. The wife said she was foggy and justified her actions to herself and engaged in the affair. She swears there were only three sexual encounters and only the last time involved full sex. My wife said the encounters were of a Dom/sub nature and she does not have feelings for OM. She said she had ended their prior relationship due to OM being increasingly abusive in his nature and pushing for sexual things she did not want and she did not love him.
There was one more point that hurt. She had the affair with OM because she felt comfortable having that type of relationship with him due to their history. God that one hurts.
Sorry for the novel and TMI. But we are trying to R and everyone has given me such great advice and support. I felt there were a lot of you who needed to know where we were at.
This is more justification.
I'll compare it to my job. People will commit crimes all of the time and they always have an excuse. Doesn't matter what the crime is they can and do try to justify it. When it happens I don't care they get arrested. The rest is up to the court to decide. They get punished, be it jail, a fine or any other alternative sentence.
My wife had her affair(crime) and she was arrested (discovered). Now she has to face her sentence. She knows I need her to be honest and open with me. She has tried and is doing well in my opinion. I know she is and probably will continue to present what she did in as positive (to her) point of view as possible. . We have decided to try and R, so I ask what choice do I have?
She has put herself out there. She has admitted what she did and is making an honest attempt to fix her issues. Are there guarantees, absolutely not. Her and her family all know what happened and she is not shying away from it. She has humbled herself to just about everyone I know and has asked for a second chance. I have decided to give her one. I will compare it to probation. She does what she has to do and doesn't break my laws and everything will be fine. She doesn't comply and she faces the punishment. She knows there will be no more chances after this.
Were pics or video taken during her "encounters" with the OM?
You really need to educate yourself on the BDSM lifestyle!!
Good luck!
[This message edited by doggiediva at 11:09 AM, April 13th (Sunday)]
Doggie. I understand what your saying. Maybe I'm not explaining myself properly. She is not giving me excuses per se. She admits this is all on her and her flawed logic and her selfishness. She knows I am hurt and she did that to me. She is not defending her actions and has not blamed me since I confronted her and I believe that was her shocked reaction and she was rationalizing her cheating as revenge, because that was her way of excusing her affair in the first place. People have pointed out her actions were not consistent with a BS and she knows this. She readily admits she was lying to herself and me to justify her actions.
In general my wife is kind of a "wall flower". While she is a stunning woman she is quiet and actually a little shy. She has expressed some self esteem issues from past abuse, but isn't using them as an excuse. Maybe I'm going about this the wrong way. I'm posting a lot of what we are discussing and am probably doing a bad job of it. It's just that you all are my sounding board. I have no siblings and my mother has passed on. My best friend in the world is her brother, and he is not someone I can discuss this with. I have lots of friends at work, but it's just not appropriate ya know.
I just don't know what to do anymore.
Listen SWAT, I've been at this a long time. And one thing that I've learned (the hard way) is that trickle truth is almost "a given" after discovery. What I'm saying is this...WS's lie!!! What I would hate is for you to continue on with your reconciliation and then have something significant surface! It happened to me!! If it doesnt happen to you.... Super!! You'll be the first that I've ever read here!
In my case, after 8 years into my R and continued TT, I demanded a poly! She passed, but not before some last minute "truths" on the way to the exam. We're good now. You and yours can be also!
Now I have to wonder if she is one the Internet somewhere.
Ask. Hopefully you will get the truth. She was open about the sexual desires right? Might not have happened, but the little I know of Dom's is that photos/videos are part of the game. Hope not though.
I'm actually hopeful for you guys. It doesn't happen often, but every so often, a WW comes along who is immediately remorseful. Yours has seemed to be one such. The only thing that will show you that is a much hated word around here....Time. The generally accepted timeframe is 2-5 years(sorry). It's a rollercoaster.
asked for a second chance. I have decided to give her one. I will compare it to probation.
Maybe I'm going about this the wrong way. I'm posting a lot of what we are discussing and am probably doing a bad job of it.
Nope, doing pretty damn well. Remember, you're the one *on the spot*. You've got incident command, take the advice you need and leave the rest.
Strength Brother
I just blurted out that I forgave her and wanted to try and work everything out. Wife just fell to the floor crying and saying thank you.
Nevertheless, there are still 3 separate and distinct healings that need to occur for R to be successful:
1. BS (IC may be helpful)
2. WS (IC may be helpful)
3. M (MC may be helpful)
wife started living a mild form of BDSM lifestyle in her late teens early twenties. She said she likes to be "forced" to do things. She said that she didn't like pain and anything she just feels she needs to be made to do things. Nothing extreme just being "dominated".
So, SWAT, one step at a time. Healing takes time, but you are making much forward progress!
[This message edited by IWantDoOver at 2:29 PM, April 13th (Sunday)]
Just wondering if her contrition isn't part of her submissive role as punishment. I'm not sure how all that works but I can see how it would get confusing
Exactly!!! ^^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^
Posts: 1493 | Registered: Apr 2006 | From: Texas
So what your saying is she isn't really sorry. She is just punishing herself and taking me along for the ride because she is submissive.
Well I guess I'm f'ed then. Maybe we are done I don't know. I guess only time will tell.
I'll have to talk with WW tonight and maybe staying S is the best thing for now.
Are your familiar with the H.A.L.T. acronym?
My IC advised me never to make a life-altering decision when I'm
In my past, an ltgf asked me to beat her while having sex. Not a BDSM thing but actually beat her. I'm fairly certain looking back that her father sexually abused her. I didn't understand it then, but over the years have been in long term relations with sexually abused women and had to deal with the effects of various forms of abuse. Not that your wife has been sexually abused. Just saying with time I began to understand the behavior behind the way my x used to think and why she was begging me to assault her (couldn't do it for more than a few seconds and I myself became traumatized by it). Awful. Crazy dark stuff and was one of the many reasons we didn't stay together.
Be patient SWAT. Gently bring it up to your wife if you want, but don't hang your hat on it just yet.
Pulling for you SWAT.
I'm five years from reaching retirement eligibility. If she doesn't want to mess with my pension maybe I should just walk. I thought I could read people but maybe in this case I'm wrong. It appears I really know nothing about my wife, since she couldn't tell me this s@it before. Hell for all I know she is the worlds best liar. I had hoped we could work it out but I keep getting the impression everyone(or at least quite a few of you) thinks she is lying or at least not being totally honest. I'm not sure I can tolerate any more information or truth at this point.
We are not trying to infringe on your happiness. We are trying to look out for you. Personally I would like to give her the benefit of the doubt. Honestly, at this point it's still a little early for that. You don't have to make any life changing decisions right now. Especially when not being able to think clearly. Think R or D later. Think yourself and your kids for now.
How did that conversation with WW go? Doesn't sound like it went too well.
I am going to focus on the BDSM dimension of your situation as it seems that is giving you some pause.
If you read my profile, you will see that my WW engaged in BDSM with her AP. She had never expressed or known that she had an interest in that. The AP, however, had and talked her into it.
From what I know (and I have read a lot of books, participated in fora, web sites, etc.) and experienced with her and other women, it is a matter of trust. That is, there is a strong trust that the submissive, or bottom, has in the dominant or top. Usually, the party who is in charge is really the submissive, not the dominant. The dominant is just how the submissive gets her/his "needs" met.
Her lack of feelings for the AP is a little bit at odds with her BDSM inclination. That is, usually people (especially women) do not engage in (any form of) BDSM unless there is a strong element of trust, which usually comes with love, admiration, respect, or some combination thereof. This is an area where I feel that your WW might not be 100% forthcoming when she says that there were no strong underlying feelings for the AP. And this is consistent with observation in my first post where I questioned whether your wife is so naive to have fallen for the AP's deception). Maybe she is minimizing her feelings for the AP. But again, this is an observation based on what I am reading in your posts. You may have formed a different conviction based on your direct interaction with your WW.
Everything will sound new now to you and somehow as if it does not pertain to your relationship with your WW. I remember for at least three months after DDay struggling to accept/internalize that my WW was interested in that lifestyle. Who was that woman, I kept asking myself. However, if you continue on the R journey, and when and if you can get past the initial connection of BDSM to the AP, then I would tell you that you might be in for a very fulfilling journey of discovery. You may want to explore your own interests in BDSM, share them with your WW and include them in your relationships, if she agrees. My WW and I have now created our own brand of BDSM, somehow far, more intimate, and deeper that the (relatively mild) one that she had been initiated to. I find her surrender very fulfilling as it makes me feel closer to her and she experiences the same. Again, it is not for everyone, but I would not discount it a priori.
One aspect you may want to clarify/explore with her is if she feels/wants the submissive role only in the bedroom or in all other aspects of your life together. It should not have to be degrading for her, as the "submission" should be evident and known only between the two of you.
I am not sure what else I can add at this point, but if you have any specific issue you want to discuss, hit me either as a reply or via PM.
Good luck.
[This message edited by frankier at 6:04 PM, April 13th (Sunday)]
It appears I really know nothing about my wife, since she couldn't tell me this s@it before.
TBH brother, embarrassing stuff for her to admit if she had you on a pedestal. IME, very few marriages are based on total complete honesty by both parties. I'll take your word for being completely open and honest with her, but really?
You don't need to make any decisions now brother. It's a great time for you to reassess who you really are and what you want out of life. Great time for her to be working on her and salvaging what she can. TBH, she does sound like she *gets* it. Unfortunately, it takes time to prove it.
Take your time. This is your decision. Expect it to change many, many times. It truly is a rollercoaster.
She had precious little guilt and had no intention of confessing to you, which makes me think she might have gone back for the occasional dabble, as soon as she convinced the OM that this was causal and not to be taken seriously. Just sex.
Not much respect for you, but you need to accept the fact that your WW is rather a selfish person who loves you and the kids, but is not to be fully trusted because of this selfishness. If she wants something then why can't she have it? She understands she can't have a brand new BMW because of financial reasons, but she can have the OM with no repercussions as long as you didn't find out.
Currently she wants this horrible mess to go away hence her extreme efforts to display remorse. I wonder what her mindset will be when she realizes this isn't going to be instant; it will take years.
I think your WW has learned a lesson from this; just make sure she doesn't get complacent about the marriage; leave her unsettled and insecure about what her future holds. Will the marriage survive? Almost certainly, but don't let her know that.
I know what Im posting and suggesting is easier to say than to implement. Im more or less suggesting you try to control you completely understandable and logical thoughts and replace them with something that really doesnt make sense.
Sort of like your job
What sensible and logical person goes TOWARDS a situation where you could meet a drugged, hyperactive homicidal maniac with nothing to lose and armed with a firearm? What sort of sane person walks willingly into such a situation if they have options to do something else?
Frankly SWAT none.
What you do as a vocation really doesnt make sense. Deliberately going into harms way
If we only apply self-centered and focused logic and sense
it breaks all the rules of logic and sense.
But you do it
And you minimize the risk by training, equipment, precautions.
You prepare by overriding, controlling or focusing your fears. Unlike most people that would curl up in a ball if fired at you might be just as scared but you react differently. You react to your situation and your reactions impact the situation. If you impact it often enough and get results to your impacts
You get control.
And SWAT
thats what you have to do now
Look. If I continue comparing your marriage to a street-fight. Wondering on the whys and whats right now
Its like you and gunman share discussions about his troubled youth and abusive father while he is still taking pot-shots at you.
Unlike your job you CAN walk away from this fight. You can turn in your husband-badge. But
Like your job you cant turn in your police-badge for one tough event and then reclaim it a couple of hours later because you have easier jobs
Now based solely on what YOU have posted then I think your wife got taken by the OM. This does not in any way diminish her responsibility or diminish the affair. Affairs extremely seldom happen because WS and AP are meant to be love at first sight destiny yadayadacrap. Generally they take place because the WS is lacking something [Note I dont say missing or needing they are LACKING as in it being a need that they should be able to fulfill differently and in a normal acknowledged way]. Its as if a person open for infidelity send signals that others in the same wave-length can receive. In your case it really sounds as if OM saw an opportunity with WW and really mined that gap. Once again this does not diminish her responsibility in ANY way. BUT it can impact her willingness and ability to reconcile.
All this BDSM talk
You have gotten some great advice on those issues (special accolades to yop [an apt name considering the subject
] and frankier)
There is a difference between being submissive and BDSM
I could argue that your WW was submissive because that was what she needed to have sex with OM. That a) she needed him to be dominant in order to feel she had no choice or option other than comply b) she needed something completely different from you so she could carry on with it. But then she might have a heavy bondage streak in her that the OM somehow managed to tap into. Who knows? But right now
thats like the gunman telling you his father drowned his puppy
. Its not really relative to the situation right now.
SWAT. This is a long-term project. There is no way you will get reasons, resolve or any form of real understanding right now. Your WW is just as messed up mentally right now as you are. You are both confused.
I cant strongly enough encourage you two to find a pro-marriage MC and to start the work of channeling all this good, required communications you two seem to be having now into the correct paths.
What I do know is there is a fair amount of trickle truth that comes out in the beginning, even by the most honest waywards. Everyone has a self-preservation mode and, from years of being here and reading many thousands of stories, waywards minimize their involvement and only give up initially what is known.
Is your wife telling you the truth now (as opposed to the initial truth she told you when she admitted having an affair)? I don't know. Time will tell.
That is the other thing. Going by what is said here, affairs take 5 years to heal. That is a long hard road with many bumps and hurtles. It isn't a 'forget about it' kind of thing. You are in the new and very raw part of this. You are on the roller coaster still. Take it easy on yourself. Be gentle to you. A lot of things are going to change in your feelings between yesterday and today and maybe even right now and 10 minutes from now. Don't make any rash decisions. Get into counseling. Figure out what YOU want.
It doesn't seem like it, but it gets better. Its so hard in the start. Your world has crashed down around you and its hard to know what to rebuild first. We think its our relationship that needs rebuilding - but what we really need to do is save ourselves first. This is where that cliche about putting your own oxygen mask on first goes.
Maybe I missed it...but why is she telling you(and showing you pics, articles,etc) about her interest in NOW?
Is it something you have been asking her about and encouraging her to talk about..including going to the trouble..and forethought...of gathering pics to show you what she is talking about?
I guess Im just wondering WHY this seems to have become necessary to talk about now. She had an affair. But the focus has turned to the type of sex she had with OM.
This just strikes me as a compete load of crap.
Correct me if Im wrong..but is she wanting you to have sex with her the way OM did?
Also...her outting her affair to the other wives? I see that as self serving. You were not there when she told them..you came in at the end of her speech, or whatever. I think she told them what OM did...and put the majority of the blame on him..yes she admitted she fell for it...but it's still his fault..KWIM? And the rumors were already flying. So everyone knew..or was going to hear..anyway. She had nothing to lose by telling them...and had a chance to spin things in her favor.
I don't know. Something just seems off here. Im really bothered by her wanting you to have sex with her the way the OM did. I get having certain sexual kinks...but this is just too far, IMO.
[This message edited by confused615 at 9:53 AM, April 14th (Monday)]
In your case it really sounds as if OM saw an opportunity with WW and really mined that gap.
Affairs and the people who conduct them manipulate. Even your wife. Even if the OM was the most vile human on the force, she went there. It is her responsibility to be an adult and whole person. She chose to embrace fear and infidelity. Is she a smart capable women in other areas of her life? She isn't a lamb led to the slaughter, she had options and choices. She made them.
I do think that being at a weak point in your life is a topic worth discussion/investigation. But often it is used to mitigate actions and buffer consequences. Don't go there. You are not her caretaker. She is.
Another thing that is bugging me here is-
I walked in and found my wife talking to 10 other wives. My wife was happy to see me and ran up and hugged me. She whispered she was sorry and had asked them over so she could get some information. One of the wives is my attorney. Wife asked what she needed to do and they all rallied around her and where talking to her. My wife had told my attorney to draft an agreement for her. She wants nothing to from me if we divorce. She doesn't want anything except child support and 50/50 custody. She doesn't want to divorce, but if I did she wanted me to know this.
I just blurted out that I forgave her and wanted to try and work everything out. Wife just fell to the floor crying and saying thank you. The other wives left and we talked
This is an ambush. What if you didn't want her speaking to your lawyer? What if you preferred to handle things more privately?
She made the decision without you, put you on the spot in front of an audience and dramatically fell to the floor?
She did this for you? It seems soap opera dramatic and over the top. Attention seeking.
I will be the first to admit that the cynic in me is pinging hardcore.
If it was a grand gesture made of an insecure mind, so be it. But time to get on the same page. She doesn't make decisions that have an effect on your lives without consulting you in this process.
She may be unburdening herself and being honest about the sub thing as well. That happens at this stage. A whole lot of important flotsam and jetsom gets in the mix. It doesn't mean it is not important to you as a couple, but you both have to get in the triage mode.
Most important life threatening issues first. I think you need to make some decision on what you want R to look like. What your expectations and boundaries will be. And then discuss them with her and see where you are headed.
Take time to do something against your nature. Be selfish for a while. Do what SWAT wants. You don't need to answer to anybody. A little " my givashit is broke" attitude does wonders to clear the head.
[This message edited by twisted at 11:13 AM, April 14th (Monday)]
It seems like YOUR needs so far aren't being addressed in this whole mess. So far all I can see is that she messed up and now YOU are the one listening to her, she is the one getting to go on about what SHE was lacking. You are the one screwed over nine ways to Sunday here, but somehow this has turned into you attentively seeking out her desires, reasons, hidden sexual preferences, etc.
What about you?
I think most spouses who cheat obviously do it for some sort of sexual, purely sexual, reason. There may be other components, like emotions, involved, but the sexual attraction is the sexual attraction. She's not special in this. It's not special that she liked the sex because they had a bdsm history, the same as another WS would not be special because their AP attracted them due to XYZ reason (insert attraction/sexual preference here). If you want to understand it, that's up to you. But don't let it distract you, and I hope to all that is holy that you do not feel this was a good reason for her behavior or that you somehow weren't fulfilling her and caused this. She should have spoken up!!! It doesn't even sound like she's into anything that extreme, heck I'm probably more "submissive" than her and I wouldn't consider it bdsm, but whatever. If she is bdsm, it sounds like she is on the vanilla end of the scale, and this was not some off the charts kink that a husband would have found impossible to fulfill.
There is a scene in the movie Unfaithful that portrays the "he coerced/forced me" fantasy/excuse in an obvious way. The WW does little to stop the attention of the OM and forward motion of the A that is leading up to a PA, except utter a few weak statements about knowing it's wrong. When they actually end up in bed together, again she meekly and insincerely ACTS like she is unsure of whether to do the deed. Her and OM decide in an instant that she will slap him a few times, that way she can *tell herself* (Pretend!) that she was forced and therefore bears no responsibility for what she is doing against her BH.
See what I'm saying here.
In any case, just be aware of your own needs during this terrible time. You are doing great btw, honestly you are. If, god forbid, this M does not make it, I think you will be able to say you applied everything you had to it. Hang in there.
I'll be talking two weeks vacation next month. Going to the police memorial week in DC. Then I'm going to our west to visit and old friend from my army days. WW is not invited. She was upset with this since I usually sell back to two weeks of vac to have some extra cash for the family summer vacation. She is also upset because I had always wanted to go to the memorial and she always said she wanted to go as well. To be honest I'm not all that upset her feelings are hurt.
She seems to think we can get past this quickly but I realize that isn't going to happen. We had planned on going to OC Maryland and Bar Harbor Maine for my two weeks vacation this summer. WW says she is concerned we won't be going. She has no idea I'm getting a workers comp settlement and the lawsuit against suspect from my injury. My hearings were right after d-day and she didn't know about them. I've got the money for all of the vacations and then some.
I talked to my in laws last night and they are very happy I want to at least try to R. BIL told me to take some time for myself since he could see this shit storm was really messing me up. I told them my plans for next month. They all agreed to keep an eye on my family and make sure they were alright. I broke down for a bit but they were really great. FIL is tough old bastard though. Told me to stand up straight and fix my shit. Told me I'm a good man, husband and father. FIL said his daughter was a "f'ing dumb a$$" and she needed to fix her own shit. MIL cried but agreed with him. They all agreed I was in a tough spot and would always love and support me as best they could.
Well at least I'm at work and training recruits is fun. Not sure to many of the appreciate me right now since defensive tactics and officer survival are pretty physically intensive classes. I just love the making them go through the "Circle of doom". Young pups should be in better shape. By the end of this week they will be.
I'll be talking two weeks vacation next month. Going to the police memorial week in DC. Then I'm going to our west to visit and old friend from my army days. WW is not invited
This sounds like an excellent idea. Hopefully you will gain some perspective. Plus, there is no doubt you need a break, infidelity is a trauma in every sense of the word.
Focus on yourself and relaxing while you are gone. Someone wise once told me this during my problems with my ex WH (nobody knows about my problems with my current WH):
love yourself and treat yourself like you are your own child. All the gentleness and love you would give toward your child during something like this, give to yourself.
here's another one of my personal favorites that has gotten me through a lot (it's kind of my definition of god):
When you come to the edge of all the light you know, and take that first step into the darkness of the unknown,
you must believe one of two things will happen: either there will be something solid for you to stand upon,
or you will be taught how to fly.
You will be okay SWAT!
Okay, end of my sappy mood and sayings!
As the months pass and you emotionally withdraw to some extent, anger may set in followed by demands you get your act together and accept what has happened. It was only sex and you set the stage to some extent by your 'neglect'.
If the OM re-enters the picture, I'm not sure your now irritated wife won't re-ignite the dormant affair. She has something of the 'spoiled brat' persona, and seems to be lacking true remorse, so I wonder if she has the maturity to accept your temporary rejection and knuckle down for the long haul.
I think you are doing the right thing now by backing off and doing your surveillance.
Confession and contrition doesn't mean the sinning never occurred. Nor does it entitle her to a "get out of jail free" card.
Your main obligation is to you and you're doing the right thing.
MIL asked about my planned trip and offered to watch the kids if I wanted to take W. I told her I no and I wouldn't be taking her with me. I kind of went on a rant. Told MIL that when I was injured it was police week last year. W was off with OM and I as close to being added to the wall this year. I was laying in a hospital with my arms, face, head and stomach cut up. You could see my teeth, skull and intestines. She was in some hotel two hours away and could not be reached. She did not even care enough to have her cell phone on. She came to the hospital twelve hours after I arrived. Twelve fucking hours!! So NO I don't want her going with me. I've known people on that wall and I know another name that will be added next year. I was very close to being on that wall. I know I'm lucky to still be here and it is always a possibility l could still end up on that wall. I want and need to see that memorial. I can't really explain why. I just HAVE to. MIL said she was sorry she upset me. I explained it wasn't her. I have been hurt and was sad before, but now I'm just angry. MIL said I have nothing to apologize for. God I love that woman.
when I was injured it was police week last year. W was off with OM and I as close to being added to the wall this year. I was laying in a hospital with my arms, face, head and stomach cut up. You could see my teeth, skull and intestines. She was in some hotel two hours away and could not be reached. She did not even care enough to have her cell phone on. She came to the hospital twelve hours after I arrived. Twelve fucking hours!!
Wow that is sad. I'm so sorry you had to go through all that. You're right, that is not love the way she treated you. That's not love.
Take your vacation Swat, you owe nobody anything, your fidelity credit balance is in the black. And don't feel guilty about leaving the kids for two weeks. They may not be angels the entire time but eh, they're kids, so what. It will be fine.
Which brings up another point, how long did she and the OM have sex for while you lay close to death in the hospital? How many times? The more you reveal about your wife the more I question her truthfulness, dedication and loyalty to your marriage. Sure we have seen flashy remorse, full of drama and emotion, and an audience of 10 wives that this drama queen could appeal to. True remorse? I don't think so.
As per my last post. I suspect she does not have the patience for a long drawn out reconciliation.
So I took the family out to dinner and we dropped the kids at the in laws for awhile. The wife and I went home and had it out. I'm actually proud yet upset with myself. I told her everything that was bothering me in a fairly rational manner. I told her how I didn't believe the whole sub thing and that I really don't believe she loves me. She sure hasn't shown it. I also told her that I'm sick of her making decisions for me, which to be honest is something that she has always done.
What I am not proud of is now I acted when I asks her why it took her so long to come to the hospital. I will say this my wife didn't act like a drama queen at least. She apologized for everything that had happened and said it wasn't my fault. She then proceeded to tell me about that night. Apparently OM had set the whole night up. I was supposed to be working my regular shift which at the time was eight hours and there was going to be OT after my shift. I always work the OT overnights so I would have worked a double shift. OM and WW made a date night out of it. They went to dinner and for drinks then went to the hotel. She said they went out of town so no one would see them. WW hired a babysitter and told her to call the in laws if there was an emergency. WW didn't want any reminders of me so she turned off her cell phone. Apparently after about eight or nine hours she decided to check her messages. Then her phone blew up.
OM and WW panicked and did not know what to do. OM drive WW back to where her car was parked and she called the babysitter and asked to met her for the kids. WW said she made up an excuse about visiting her grandmother who lives out of town and told the kids to say they where with her. DD said why and WW said because daddy is really hurt and didn't want anything to upset me. WW said one of the people who had texted her kept sending text messages which said I was getting progressively worse. WW was not making any excuses she just laid it one the line. I was injured fifteen minutes into my shift and she had already turned off her phone. She had no idea I had been hurt and by the time she found out and they drive back it was almost twelve hours. I asked her why she really turned off her phone because she knows I am not a person who calls or texts a lot and she knows I could have gone the entire night with out contacting her. WW said she knew about the OT and she was afraid I would call her and ask about working the OT. She thought if I didn't get an answer I would just work it and then she could have spent more time with OM. I called bs on that. She then admitted she had done some research on how to have an affair and mot get caught and she knew her phone had GPS.
Well I really lost it. She made my kids lie and she and OM planned this whole thing out days in advance. I called WW some not so nice names and managed to break the kitchen table. At which point I told WW that I almost feel like I hate her. I get waywards lie but Jesus...she did research on how to cheat.
WW again apologized and said she was sorry I'm hurt and would never do anything like this again. She sees how it has affected me and the kids. They know I'm upset and not getting along with WW. There used to be lots of hugs and kisses but not so much since d-day. According to WW the kids have noticed and have started asking questions.
I told her to not plan on any vacations this summer. I won't be going anywhere with her and if she wants to stay together she is going to have to prove it to me. She said she understood and wanted to work on the marriage. But thought I maybe punishing the kids by not going on vacation. I then said I was still taking vacations I just didn't plan on taking them with her. She cried a little bit but seemed to understand. So I'm back in the guest room for awhile it seems.
Since it would seem there were multiple sex acts in the 8 hours she was screwing the OM I still question whether she was using condoms. Everyone hates the things anyway and when she was deep into sex as she was during the encounter with OM, there would be a literal heap of contraceptives by the side of the bed. Not very believable. Why would she lessen the intense excitement of the special encounter by putting horrible, sensation killing rubbers on.
Whatever, you need to find out why she thought so little of you to cheat on what you both say was a happy marriage. Presumably she wasn't going to confess; so one would presume she was quite happy carrying this dark secret into old age. Not very romantic or respectful is it?
Was the affair really over after the full sex encounter? Did she actually intend to go back for more some time in the future, had your accident not happened?
Keep asking questions until the TT'ing ends. You deserve the truth, and you need to keep digging for facts that make sense if reconciliation is to be successful. No more lies.
I just want you to know something. I made a very bad decision when I slept with OM. I regret hurting you and the kids. Most of all I'm upset I hurt myself. Your the best thing that ever happened to me and I didn't respect or cherish that. You will never know how sorry I am. I did what I did for selfish reasons and I allowed OM to say things about you I never really believed and I allowed myself to make you the scapegoat in my mind. I listened to another man tell me and write me things I never should have allowed him to say. I let another man make me feel good about myself and did not defend you or our relatinship. I allowed myself to want compliments and attention from another man when all I had to do was look at you and I knew I had everything I ever wanted or needed. I allowed another man to touch me. For these reasons and some you have probably thought about, I will never be able to make that up to you. But I can tell you I will regret my actions for as long as I live and I will try everyday until I die to show you how sorry and how special you really are.
I do not have any excuses and while it has been difficult I want you to know I have been completely honest with you.
It took me a while but I can see your pain and it hurts to know I caused it. While it is difficult and I know I have down played a lot of what happened before. I have and will not lie to you about this. I will admit it is painful to do this and I never wanted to hurt you. I honestly wish I had never done this and it makes me sick to think I did what I did. I understand that you need time and space to feel better. I understand that you really hate me now and you are struggling. I want you to know I will give you all the time and space you need. I truly love you with all of my heart and soul. You will always be my one, WW"
That must also be pretty mortifying for the WS to be sincere and truthful, yet not be believed. Part of the misery that affairs produce.
Best of luck SWAT with your reconciliation. That was a nice letter from your WW, who sounds as if she intends to be a FWW as soon as possible. The rest is up to the healing power of time.
And you think she hasn't read this thread?
I think you're wrong.
I lurked on this site for awhile before posting anything and I just read and got some advice. Maybe that is what she is doing. I actually believe she is mostly getting her advice from our SIL. SIL has some experience in counciling though her expertise is dealing with troubled youths. I'm also sure MIL has chimed in as well. Both are good women and are upset with my wife but they also want her to get her life straightened out.
After answering a PM I just remembered something in all of this mess. Wife's birthday is tommorrow. To be honest I almost forgot. Good thing my iPhone has a calendar with reminders. No plans for her b-day she's just getting her a card and gift from the kids. Probably a gift card for e-books, she is a reading junkie.
While I'm hating her one minute and loving her he next. I have to admire her strength. She is not stupid, she knows she let a lot of people down and they are looking at her differently. They still love her but they do not trust her and that is a bitter pill to swallow.
I want for you to consider something - it was something that took me a while to learn in regard to all the "stuff" that took place between my wife and her AP.
It is SO easy to get caught up in the events of the affair. "OMG... they didn't use condoms!" "OMG... she didn't show up at the hospital for 12 hours!" "OMG.... they did it in THAT position!" "OMG.... in our bed!!"
The "OMGs" are never-ending. And they all hurt.
But you know what? This is what people do in affairs. People have unprotected sex. They fuck like rabbits. They try new things. They scheme and plan and do things not necessarily in a malicious way to hurt US, but rather to get more pleasure themselves [an important distinction].
This is hard to put into perspective when the trauma is still raw. But eventually you will come to the understanding that what actually happened is of far less consequence than what she is doing NOW. I say this because I want to encourage you to consider this as you move forward... and potentially toward reconciliation.
As your wife begins to understand more about what she did and shows genuine remorse there will come a time when you will need to move toward HER. And this will require you to put what happened between THEM to bed and allow new, pleasant memories of YOU to take root. For me, putting the affair into perspective (She had an affair... and you know what? People in affairs fuck - a lot!) allowed me to settle myself into a stronger, better marriage.
Hang in there. It's a tough ride but it seems that you may have a truly remorseful spouse. If it's going to work that is an essential ingredient.
It is SO easy to get caught up in the events of the affair. "OMG... they didn't use condoms!" "OMG... she didn't show up at the hospital for 12 hours!" "OMG.... they did it in THAT position!" "OMG.... in our bed!!"
The "OMGs" are never-ending. And they all hurt.
But you know what? This is what people do in affairs. People have unprotected sex. They fuck like rabbits. They try new things. They scheme and plan and do things not necessarily in a malicious way to hurt US, but rather to get more pleasure themselves [an important distinction].
But you know what? This is what people do in affairs. People have unprotected sex. They fuck like rabbits. They try new things. They scheme and plan and do things not necessarily in a malicious way to hurt US, but rather to get more pleasure themselves [an important distinction].
LifeisCrazy's post really hit on some key points.
You are still very early in this disaster called infidelity, and you can't rush through it, but it can give you some comfort to think of the end game---because the two of you are definitely heading on the right path.
One of the things that I always try to point out, is that a remorseful spouse awakes to the fact that they betrayed themselves....which has to be the biggest betrayal of all(although it may not feel that way to us).
They debased themselves---and for what? To compromise all the good that they stood for? To have to fight themselves to feel equal in their relationship? To always wonder in the back of their minds of what their partner *really* thinks of them....only to struggle with an authentic answer?
The bottom line is that you are eventually going to have to accept what has happened as part of your past. And I can assure you that it gets easier. For example, I can remember as plain as day, the early times when I literally did not have the strength to ask the tough questions. I couldn't ask how many men, how many times, and what acts were performed. I thought I would just cease to exist if I heard the answers.
The truth is my WW slept with several men, several times, and did acts that were supposedly only for us, in our marriage. Our exclusivity is forever gone, and I can't change it. But I did have the option not to accept it, and leave my marriage. I eventually chose to stay...for several reasons....and one of those reasons being what I described earlier. My WW disgraced me, her children, but most importantly, herself. And she has to live with that, but she is proving to herself and to her family that a dark time in her life does not define who she normally was(and is again). Good people sometimes make very poor decisions....for various reasons.
It is how they handle themselves after their realization that shows their true character.
Today I was done teaching at the academy and went out with the other instructors and recruits. They graduate in three weeks and they get to coast from here on out. When I got home I was kind of shocked. No kids and wife had made dinner. Candles, wine the works. She was dressed to kill to. I was a little shocked and she just said she wanted to thank me for giving her a second chance and for one of the best birthdays ever. I was stunned at this because it really wasn't anything special and I told her so. She said it was special because she realized what she could possibly lose. Well we ended up in the bedroom and dinner got really cold. This maybe the first time I ever ate cold chicken parm and loved it.
I just read something earlier that has me thinking...
Remorse is good but remorse by itself doesn't guarantee that a partner can stay with his mate for life thru thick and thin..For some people the shame post A can be too much...
Remorse + Devotion are an unbeatable combination of qualities to have in a partner who is one's mate...
From what I am reading in your posts, your W seems to feel both of those ...
Don't let your feelings at this point dictate what you think the outcome may be later. You will get there.
That said. I know what you mean. It's a much better place to feel good rather than feeling shitty or just down right blah. It's the pain talking. We are listening.
You're in the top of the second in this serious game.
On the other hand, it looks like OM has been ejected. That's a positive. He got himself thrown out of the game by insane behavior.
I haven't commented on your other threads but, I keep up with you. My daughter is married to a police officer and I think of him every time I read your posts. He too, has earned a very good reputation by being a man of character and, I love that guy like I gave birth to him.
Since you seem to be a fixer, I genuinely believe that you are desperately wanting to stabilize this situation and, I get that. I'm a fixer too but, sometimes it doesn't serve us well in that in our knee jerk reaction to "fix" things, we are quick to forfeit things that would serve our own best interest. Please go slow SWAT. I've tried to read your WW's posts but, the immaturity she displays makes me recoil. In the immediate aftermath of dday, many of us BS's cling to the idea that there is hope in all the wreckage so we grab on to every positive word or behavior we think we hear or see. Right now, seems to me that she is telling you what you want/need to hear but, please be careful. She is nowhere near safe for you right now. While she says she understands things much better, her thinking is still not right yet.
Just be careful. Proceed with caution. Pay attention to the warning bells. You can't let her off the hook yet. She may be very sorry, remorseful, regretful...but, she still has SO much to learn before she will be a safe partner for you.