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Brick Lane Curry House UES
- Address:
1664 Third Ave
New York, NY 10128Neighborhood:
Upper East Side
- Cuisine:
IndianPrice: $30 and under
Brick Lane Curry House UES
- Dining Style: Casual Elegant
- Website: http://www.bricklanecurryhouse.com/
- Phone: (646) 998-4440
- Hours of Operation:
Sunday to Thursday: 12 noon to 11:00 pm
Friday and Saturday: 12 noon to 1:00 am
- Payment Options: AMEX,Diners Club,Discover,MasterCard,Visa
- Cuisine: Indian
- Executive Chef: Praveen Pedankar
- Dress Code: Casual Dress
- Accepts Walk-Ins: Yes
- Additional Details: Banquet/Private Rooms, Bar Dining, Bar/Lounge, Beer, Delivery, Full Bar, Gluten-free Menu, Happy Hour, Non-Smoking Restaurant, Private Room, Takeout, Wheelchair Access, Wine, Wine Bar
- Catering: All types of outdoor catering, corporate lunches/dinner in house or offsite and private and family events can be customized. Prices range from $15 per person up to $250 per person. Please send an email to firstname.lastname@example.com
- Entertainment: State of the art audio facilities available for private events.
A word from Brick Lane Curry House UES
Brick Lane Curry House UES is the fifth location within the group and is an elegant, warm and welcoming restaurant with rich mahogany wood, chandeliers and swanky decor.Continued
Named after the famous street in London (home to many Indian restaurants) Brick Lane restaurants in NY / NJ are heavily lauded by WSJ, CNN, NY Times, Travel Channel, Food Network etc.
We are a 'British Style Curry House' and much to our concept, serve an extensive array of curries from all parts of India. The 40 feet long bar offers a selection of signature cocktails, beers & ales with a bar menu while the dining room has extensive and delightful selections of curry's, kababs, biryani's etc. with a wine list to match! 'Crystal Room' and 'Upper Level' offer exclusive private dining and are ideal for holiday events, birthdays, baby shower, bar mitzvah, corporate lunch/dinner etc.
Named after the famous street in London (home to many Indian restaurants) Brick Lane restaurants in NY / NJ are heavily lauded by WSJ, CNN, NY Times, Travel Channel, Food Network etc.
We are a 'British Style Curry House' and much to our concept, serve an extensive array of curries from all parts of India. The 40 feet long bar offers a selection of signature cocktails, beers & ales with a bar menu while the dining room has extensive and delightful selections of curry's, kababs, biryani's etc. with a wine list to match! 'Crystal Room' and 'Upper Level' offer exclusive private dining and are ideal for holiday events, birthdays, baby shower, bar mitzvah, corporate lunch/dinner etc.
Foodspotting photosSee all photos
Brick Lane Curry House UES reviews from OpenTable diners
17 reviews since July 31, 2014
- Food4.2Service3.9
- Ambiance3.8Noise LevelModerate
neighborhood gem (11)fit for foodies (6)good for groups (4)great for lunch (3)great for brunch (2)kid-friendly (2)special occasion (1)notable wine list (1)hot spot (1)romantic (1)Show More
- Brick Lane deliversOpenTable Diner Since 2012VIPDined on 11/24/2014Brick Lane Curry House delivers as advertised a quality British Indian dining experience. The food was high quality, prepared in an authentic manner and served in a professional and polite manner. I thoroughly enjoyed the meal and recommend it without hesitation to readers.Special Features:I would recommend this to a friend.
- great indian food, nice vibe, good valueBrettVIPDined on 11/16/2014The food is great and the ambiance is interesting. This is a really good choice for Indian cuisine and I will definitely go back. I don't want to write too much because I hope it stays a neighborhood secret...Special Features:I would recommend this to a friend.
- just like LondonJevittVIPDined on 11/15/2014If you love British Ind Ian food Brick Lane is for you. Methi salmon should be a part of you order along with the tasty curries and breads.Special Features:I would recommend this to a friend.
- Brick Lane Curries FavorYumSeekerDined on 10/18/2014Considering the British Empire's long influence on India, it is no surprise that British style curries are no less authentic than the offerings of a classic Indian restaurant. Tandoori offerings were moist and flavorful, and the wide range of curry styles -- nine or more at last count, led to endess flavor possibilities. This location of the chain has lovely wood panelling and a helpful staffSpecial Features:I would recommend this to a friend.
- The back room is best!mjm1VIPDined on 10/3/2014Enjoy your meal in the ambience of the back room. The front area has piped-in-music that is too loud. And you'll dine on tables with white linen! The staff is friendly and helpful. Great wines by the glass selection and moderately priced with a good pour.I would recommend this to a friend.
- OpenTable Diner Since 2011Dined on 8/8/2014We had a nice combination of goat, chicken, and lamb with a side of veg, malai kofta. We have eaten here several times before and the food is always consistently good. Great service.Special Features:I would recommend this to a friend.
- The following 42 reviews are from the Brick Lane Curry House UES reviews archive.
- Wonderful find!NonameVIPDined on 7/30/2014This is among the tastiest Indian food I've had in a long time. The atmosphere is warm and charming. The service was very good even in the midst of having to train new staff.Special Features:I would recommend this to a friend.
- Avoid at all costsTrue2tasteVIPDined on 7/25/2014This is one of those rare times when the food was so bad that we had to leave almost all of it in the table , service was shotty , and the staff is rude , the waiter was nice but another guy who looked like their manger ( with an loud shirt and even louder tie) was not polite at all and was even scolding his staff in front of all the guests right in the middle of the dining room , very unprofessional . The food : Was prepared by someone who has never had good Indian food ..or may be even basic Indian food They have kind of a same pre cooked base which tasted rather raw and old , which they probably heated and put stuff in and brought out .. Original BLCH used to be way better at least 5 yrs ago Bottom line absolute failure and poor taste
- Good Find in MET neighbourhoodOpenTable Diner Since 2012Dined on 7/11/2014After touring the central park and MET, visiting NY I am glad i found this dig coz my partner was craving spice, just the right flavor and mix of all things east and west.Special Features:
- eatupDined on 6/16/2014Great dining experience. Met up with a fried for late lunch/early dinner. The food was delicious. Service was still rather slow despite the place being empty when we initially arrived. Overall a solid experience.Special Features:
- Great foodOpenTable Diner Since 2010Dined on 6/3/2014I loved the Phall...My dinner companions really liked their less spicy dishes also.Special Features:
- OpenTable Diner Since 2009VIPDined on 6/1/2014food ok, more expensive than other indian restaurants in the area - not sure if work the cost. Buffet overpriced for lunch!
- FreshiesVIPDined on 4/27/2014First experience eating Indian food. Everything was delicious. Recommended by an Indian friend which was spot on delicious.
- Very spicy!SundayDinerVIPDined on 4/19/2014Beware of anything labelled even "medium hot" as it's really on fire. I'm used to and generally enjoy spicy food but even the medium level was too much for me and I barely ate half the entree.
- Beautiful CurryRuthiecoopsDined on 4/16/2014Was fantastic food and a great choice. The portions are huge and the onion bhaji for starters you could quite easily share between two or order something different and mix and match. Our service wasn't great. The waiter didn't seem too bothered about us and the was an obvious mix up in the kitchen as they brought the mains out whilst we were finishing our appetisers! But overall a great restaurant and fab food.Special Features:
- Bet IndianDuckFatVIPDined on 3/29/2014Love the food here as well as the British Indian décor. Never fails to provide great foodSpecial Features:I would recommend this to a friend.
- AmazingAlecLikeBaldwin1VIPDined on 3/28/2014I might be slightly bias because I've developed an addiction to their food, but this is one of the best Indian restaurants I've enjoyed. I usually go with my fiance on Friday nights and usually have more than enough food when we split 2 apps and 2 mains (which thankfully turns into awesome Saturday leftovers). Personal favorites: Lassuni Gobi - crispy cauliflower florets tossed in a tomato and garlic sauce., Samosa - crispy pastry, stuffed with spiced potatoes and peas or minced lamb. - *** GO WITH THE LAMB!*** Malai Kofta vegetable and cheese dumplings in a nutty tomato curry And the veggie Tikka Masala. I have to stress that at most restaurants trying something new comes with a certain degree of risk, here, everything is good.Special Features:
- great restaurantsharDined on 3/26/2014The food was great, the waitor was excellent, the restaurant was gorgeous. I will definately go again.Special Features:I would recommend this to a friend.
- SuperiordinerwinerDined on 3/7/2014Emphasis on the flavors of the main ingredients, not overly creamed, buttered or uniformly seasoned like some places. Bright deep colors and distinct flavors. We tried both aloo and kheema samosas (wonderful), great lamb saag, and monkfish with a light chickpea batter and signature British-style curry sauce....all really delicious. Personable server with an interest in wine. There's a rear (quieter) dining room.Special Features:I would recommend this to a friend.
- BlahChefDined on 2/19/2014The food was mediocre. Not spicy or flavorful. Great space and really nice decor.
- We went here before a concertRaymondDined on 2/1/2014We went here before a concert and had Lamb Biiryani and Dal Makhani after starting with an Onion Bhaji. The Onion Bhaji was the best thing as the Dal Makhani didn't have the requisite richness it should have had and the Lamb Biriyani was good but not great. I'd say this was comparable to a good Indian restaurant on 8th Street. The setting was, however, very nice.
- Spicy!PickyDinerDined on 12/21/2013Authentic Indian food in an upscale restaurant with stellar service and a full-service bar. We had two dishes recommended by the waiter - a full fish and lamb - both were delicious but, spicy! . I would definitely ask for "mild" the next time around... One appetizer with cheddar cheese on top was just "ok" - unusual for Indian food and seemed out of place. Worth a visit.Special Features:I would recommend this to a friend.
- Great Indian Food and DecorOpenTable Diner Since 2007Dined on 12/6/2013Great addition to the neighborhood. The food was delicious and generously portioned. The service was very friendly and attentive. And the decor is BEAUTIFUL. Great find, so happy it's there.Special Features:
- Great food and serviceShanLavDined on 11/21/2013My fiance and i ate here last Thursday night. We were very impressed not only by the delicious food but by the great service. The staff was very friendly! We tried the phaal curry and was not dissapointed by the heat!Special Features:I would recommend this to a friend.
- Brick lane fiascoUpreastsiderDined on 11/3/2013I live on upper east and order out from Brick Lane Curry House. However my dinner was severely disappointing! The restaurant was not crowded yet kitchen was backed up. 2 waitresses were serving the entire place. The wait for our appetizer was 40 minutes. Entre was a lost cause. Don't go unless you intend to spend the entire evening waiting! Huge disappointment.
- Delicious FoodAS27Dined on 11/2/2013We went here with a group of 4 people this past weekend. First and far most the customer service was fabulous. The 5 of us were treated extremely well, and the staff was extremely polite. They recommended dishes that would suit our group. The food was excellent. I would definitely recommend this restaurant for others to enjoy!
- Indian food?SalliVIPDined on 10/20/2013Nothing we ate tasted like Indian food. The naan was a piece of pita cut in quarters. I requested raita and received a bowl of something else. The special appetizer was so awful - cauliflower florets - that had I not been hungry, I would not have eaten it at all. The waitress was extremely nice and we felt sorry for her that she was working there. There were few customers, so the emptiness of the restaurant did not help the ambiance, although the restaurant looked nice enough. Without edible food, the rest doesn't matter. It did happen that we tried two wines - one white, and one red, and they were both good. I hope they change chefs or they will not be long for the world.
- Good Eats and Great ServiceUESiderVIPDined on 9/28/2013A wide variety of food selection - something for everyone. Delicious. Well prepared. And the service was terrific. Attentive but not imposing.Special Features:I would recommend this to a friend.
- We don't usually like IndianfinefoodDined on 9/21/2013We don't usually like Indian food but Brick Lane was exceptional!Special Features:I would recommend this to a friend.
- Amazing food and great ambianceBoop1Dined on 8/31/2013I am a big fan of Indian food because I am Indian. I normally do NOT eat out for Indian food because I get it at home...however when I do eat out for Indian FOOD I would only recommend Brick Lane Curry House. I drive from South Jersey to eat here and then drive back home..about 2 hours. When I think about what makes this place good compared to other places is the unique recipes and the fact they take normal indian food and add such a flare to it. The ingredients such as the vegetables and the meat dishses are fresh. The food is cooked to order not pre-made like most other places. I was also happy that the service matched the quality of the food.Special Features:I would recommend this to a friend.
- Great Tasting FoodOpenTable Diner Since 2006Dined on 7/20/2013I love Indian food, and Brick Lane NEVER disappoints. If friends decide to meet for dinner at another Indian restaurant, returning to Brick Lane reminds me why I love it so. This was my first time at the 93rd Street location, and it won't be my last!Special Features:I would recommend this to a friend.
- Lovely restaurant and wouldfoodforthesoulVIPDined on 6/3/2013Lovely restaurant and would go back again and again!I would recommend this to a friend.
- Solid menu with many choicesOpenTable Diner Since 2007VIPDined on 6/1/2013Solid menu with many choices for all. All dishes well-prepared and more than ample.Special Features:I would recommend this to a friend.
- A very good experienceKrunoslavDined on 5/29/2013Extremely friendly but always professional service; excellent meal, and we know our Indian cuisine!Special Features:I would recommend this to a friend.
- Love the British Indian style--espeDuckFatVIPDined on 5/25/2013Love the British Indian style--especially the full bar.Special Features:I would recommend this to a friend.
- Excellent service, excellentAlecLikeBaldwin1VIPDined on 5/3/2013Excellent service, excellent food. When we went they had a creme brulee with ginger that was one of the best desserts I've ever had in my life. Me and the GF went here on a Friday night around 8:15 and had the place pretty much to ourselves. The service was fantastic and the wait staff will offer excellent recommendations from the menu.Special Features:I would recommend this to a friend.
- Excellent food...finer qualityOpenTable Diner Since 2000VIPDined on 4/19/2013Excellent food...finer quality and taste than most Indian restaurants.Special Features:
- Authentic Indian food at it'sOpenTable Diner Since 2010Dined on 3/2/2013Authentic Indian food at it's best. Reasonably priced plus the service is top notch. I almost hate for too many discovering this gem! I will be returning!Special Features:
- Been looking for a solid indianOpenTable Diner Since 2006VIPDined on 3/1/2013Been looking for a solid indian go-to restaurant in the city. Found it. Delicious authentic food, great ambiance. Good portion sizes. Look forward to going back soon.Special Features:
- Uneven. App poor. 3 mainChazVIPDined on 2/2/2013Uneven. App poor. 3 main courses---one great, one acceptable one only fair. Nice draft beer selection, willing service.


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- Baron Apr 14, 2011 05:33 PM
IS IT PROPER FOR A WAITER TO "TASTE YOUR WINE.?" i recently dined at a new, high end restaurant run by Tyler Florence in Mill Vallley, Ca called El Paseo ( a chop house).. Aside from the fact that they totally screwed up my veal chop (another issue), we ordered a wine recommended by our waiter, a Cal cab 2006, about $70. He asked to be allowed to taste our wine before serving it. Which he did. I also noticed that he was doing the same for some other tables. Is this customary? As for the veal chop, they kept us waiting a good 30 mins for the main dishes and then, my chop came EXTRA RARE , even though I made it clear that I wanted it a good Medium. I sent it back and passed on my main course as I did not want to interfere with the meals of my quests. The steak was decent, the pork-chop came dry and fatty, the steak was good.
You've just penned my favorite pun of all time!
"I did not want to interfere with the meals of my quests"
It's more common in restaurants that want to be sure the wine you are consuming isn't flawed.
Check out this article in the NY Times regarding this issue:
re: wineguy7
A waiter????? Really you think a waiter who is not even a Sommelier, has the chops to taste and know a specific wine is as it should be before you even taste it?
I do offer up this link:
re: Quine
And how, exactly, do you know that the waiter is not qualified to test the wine? Because he is "just" a waiter? Perhaps he may not be qualified to test all wines in general, (but again, we don't know. Maybe he IS a Sommeier but hasn't been able to find work in that field), but presumably, he is familiar with the restaurants wine list. Do you really think that waiters are, by nature, less qualified than you?
re: hilltowner
No, but also don't assume they are better at liking my wine than I.
It wasn't a put down on waiters but more of a rant that Sommeiers are being "down-sized" by places that won't hire one but will ask a waiter to have or get same expertise for less wage.
As for down-sizing, many places aren't even letting servers taste the menu, never the less the specials they are supposed to sell, so I am doubtful they are educating them on the wine list.
Again, a rant on profit making taking place over paying and educating those that are serving to get those profits.
re: Delucacheesemonger
Well, unless I am really wrong all those are pretty obvious by sight and smell.
So no one agrees that profit making is over taking hiring and training and paying well for such? Servers taste your wine (an OP did not mention the cork et al routine, done or not).
re: Quine
l do not understand your issue with the staff tasting. Went to a Michelin*** a few nights ago. They brought the bottle, opened it and the staff, sort of a sommelier assistant as wine not Cheval Blanc, brought a teeny glass with him and poured himself about half an ounce to check its condition. It was deemed acceptable and thus l drank. Perhaps ridiculous and unnecessary , but a nice tradition.
re: Delucacheesemonger
See now, no issue with that silly little tradition but it was not what the OP described,
Is the what I would expect from a Michelin 3 Star. Again no what the OP describes.
re: Quine
Still think that you are joisting at windmills here.
Flaws in wines happen. Were I the server, I would ask to taste the wine too. If there are flaws, I would pick them up, exchange the bottle, and save my table from having to return that bottle. To me, as the patron, that is much easier, and more restaurants should employ the same procedure. I hate having to call the sommelier, or server out, when I encounter flawed wines - especially if they cop an attitude, or make excuses.
re: Delucacheesemonger
And I would not expect the person who served my cheese to ask to taste it to make sure it was OK either nor my steak etc.. But I SURE do shop where I can ask about the cheese I wish to buy or recommendations!
re: Delucacheesemonger
I would prefer to be the one to taste it and decide if it is bad. I couldn't imagine what i would say if my server would ask to taste if first. if I thought it was bad and was sending it back, THAN he could taste it if he wanted to.
re: kjc514
I'm just the opposite. If I say a wine is bad, then it's bad; it's not the server's job to second-guess me. (And yes, I've had this happen. One yahoo tried to tell me that a deeply-flawed pinot was "supposed to taste that way." I understand that a little Brettanomyces is acceptable and even desirable, but this tasted like the glass had been rinsed in a manure lagoon.)
But if a fault is subtle, and if the server has sampled several / many bottles of the same wine from the same vintage, s/he might be able to reject a wine that isn't obviously flawed but isn't as good as it should be. What's not to like about that?
re: Quine
Quine, regarding only your third paragraph: many houses that I've worked in have, indeed let staff taste and critique the wines being offered, but it was done at training meetings which were generally facilitated by management but given by the wine salesman/distributor. Therefore the beverage was free and so management had no issue with it, but the food? Not so much. : )
re: mamachef
Yea on the food level, houses I have worked in who let staff taste and be educated on daily special had a much high sales rate than those who's staff could only give blank stares when asked how something tasted or for a recommendation (food wise)
And I have seen in some houses I worked at, where the free wine sales training was refused as the house would have to pay the hour's wages and well, they just didn;t care to do so.
Of course the longer ago it was the more tasting and traing happen but now a days, it is, punch in get on the floor when you get a chance, write own what the specials are.
re: Quine
Q Depends on the ownership and how passionate the operators are in creating a superior product. Product=food,ambiance, and knowledgeable service. I, off the top of my head, can think of several of my fav independent places that have a superior product, by above definition.
Beach Bistro, Anna Maria Island
Michael's on East, Sarasota
Bologna Cafe, Sarasota
Andrea's Sarasota
re: ospreycove
I agree with your definition and also know of places, those I visit often myself. But for every one I visit, I must drive by a dozen that don't even come close to anything with a passion but for profit.
Sad, really.
re: Quine
Q, true, it is getting very difficult for the independent owner to operate with all the gov. regulations and difficulty of getting financing. The Corporate units can sustain more years of not breaking even than the single location operator. That is one of the reasons I try and support independent owners in all areas of retail products/services.
re: Quine
maybe it's my imagination, but there sure have been many recent threads on chowhound about folks adamantly *not* wanting servers with more traditional, knowledge focused training. folks seem to prefer silent and invisible servers, and complain when servers are trained to describe dishes, specials, soup of the day. . . i think service is declining in many places because people want servers to stfu and go away. . . then, ironically, the same customers are complaining because their servers seem inexperienced, or their table isn't getting attention from a server, or the server has no idea how to describe a dish or preparation, and they don't know whether it features the customer's allergen du jour. . .
re: soupkitten
those poor servers. they just. can't. win.
how do they live?
re: soupkitten
"maybe it's my imagination, but there sure have been many recent threads on chowhound about folks adamantly *not* wanting servers with more traditional, knowledge focused training. folks seem to prefer silent and invisible servers,"
Yes it is your imagination. There are threads where folks indicate they WANT well and traditionally trained knowledgeable servers. Those who do the job, do it well and without much intrusion and chattiness.
Doing the job well, means knowing what the specials are, able to describe as well as recommend from knowledge if asked as well a getting the order correct including what cannot be eaten by whom.. This is different from trying to "sell" them, being the hello my name is and sitting next to you sorta thing.
I think service is going out of style because folks assume, as you did, well trained and trained to "sell" are the same thing in a server. And they are not.
But that is a different thread.
re: Quine
i'd be really happy if it were my imagination, as i'm in 100% agreement with you about the elements of good service and server training.
i don't think that a server who can't verbally describe a dish in conversation has any business waiting tables-- not even at earle's burger shack, and for me that's a major management FAIL. these same servers won't be able to adequately deal with customer's needs/special requests if they haven't been trained to notice the food prep of what the restaurant serves, & ingredients, cooking method, etc. of course good server training takes a little more time/effort on the restaurant's end, and more and more i see the results of skimping on the foh training. it makes me sad.
i just think that they are out there, at least on some chowhound threads, these folks who want the "drive thru" experience at a good restaurant, and others, like me, who *want* the server to be able to tell me what farm the eggs come from, or whether the soup has a broth base or cream base, etc. anyways, i agree with you-- and i guess we'll see each other on that other thread.
re: Quine
The policies of some other restaurants should not have any impact on this thread.
A good GM/Chef will educate the entire staff, and not only on the cuisine, but the cuisine of the day, plus wine pairings for that food. If servers do not know about wines, that is a lesson for later in the week.
That training is important, and should never be skipped, especially if a restaurant prides itself.
re: wineguy7
Absolutely. In the OP's case, regardless of their level of competence, the server was saving them the possible issue of a flawed wine. Were I the server, that would be my intention.
Some years ago, we went to a tasting room in the Central Coast, just as they opened. The owner/winemaker was pouring, and two other couples had already been poured the Reserve Chardonnay. They were sipping and talking. As soon as he began to pour my glass, I asked him to come over, and whispered that the Reserve Chard was corked. He sniffed, and turned pale. He quickly opened another bottle, grabbed the glasses from the other couples, apologized, and replaced with a good bottle. The evening staff had opened that bottle, and he trusted them to have checked it out. They had already poured a few glasses of a corked wine. He was very happy that I had caught the problem early that morning, and added 6 bottles to the half-case that I purchased. The other couples had no clue that the wine was pretty badly flawed. I am sure, however, that they would not have bought any of that wine, either at the winery's tasting room, or at retail back home. Some people cannot tell TCA, if it hits them in the face, while others can smell it blocks away. When the concentration is minimal, a smell alone might not be adequate. Tasting the wine, however, will likely reveal that the acid level is elevated, and that the fruit has been scalped. We had such a bottle the other night. Smell did not bely TCA (wife is almost as sensitive, as am I), but one taste, and the acid was high, and all fruit was gone - TCA.
re: Quine
If they have training, either OTJ, or elsewhere, yes. I am not a sommelier, but can spot flaws in wine easily and quickly. I have nailed TCA contaminated glasses, when the server passed behind me, with wines for another table.
Now, if the server knows zilch about wines, then all bets are off.
It's supposed to be part of their job to make sure that the wine isn't corked before they give it to you, so that you don't ruin your meal with a bad bottle. I remember it well from dining out with my parents (I don't drink myself). A good waiter will open the bottle, check/sniff the cork, and pour a sip of the wine into a tasting glass to detect any gross flaws in the bottle... then they'll offer you the same courtesy and if you both agree the wine is good they'll pour it for you. (if either of you disagrees they'll fetch a replacement bottle.) Since my parents were into wine, I also remember that one time when they DID get a corked bottle, they had a fairly lengthy chat with the waiter, and we all got to smell/taste the bad wine too.
Why are you concerned that it was 'just' a waiter doing the checking? Maybe they figured that since they want to be upmarket, that ALL their floor staff should have the ability to assist their customers in that way? Maybe the guy has an interest in good wine and some actual knowledge/skill in the area.
re: Kajikit
I haven't seen a wine tasted in a long time. I think the old school somm with a tastevin around their neck is gone. A corked wine is easily judged by smell. I don't particularly have a problem with a somm tasting the wine, really we're talking about a sip. More than that is not normal or acceptable. When I take a wine to a restaurant I always offer the server or staff a healthy taste.
re: HoosierFoodie
I find that very decent of you, HoosierFoodie. When Mr. and I "bring in," we generally also leave a glass for the waiter.
While the somm of days of yore may be on the wane, I did enjoy European-style service that included the somm doing a pre-service (and IMO correct) wine check, not long ago. However, I haven't experienced it as the norm anytime recently.
It's a little unusual that the waiter undertook the responsibility, but he did ask permission which I have to assume you granted. It may be a house policy in this age of declining sales; a true possibility that they've trained their staff to fill in for the sommelier that they can no longer afford to employ. You surely could've refused his request and just done the American-style tasting: the party hosting tastes the wine and either accepts or rejects it.
It does get worse, though: many years ago, my family ate at a local, extremely busy seafood restaurant, and the waiter brought my parents' wine to the table ALREADY OPENED. My dad inquired about it, and the waiter told him that since they, the waiters, were sooooo very very busy, the bartenders just went ahead and did it beforehand. I can still see the look on dad's face as he said, "Balls," and handed the bottle back. And I can still see the look on the poor waiter's face, too. : )
re: mamachef
Mamachef. The more I think about this, the more it makes sense; to prevent the novice, or non- oenophile, from grandstanding in front of his fellow "diners" and sending the wine back. By having a staff member first ask if he/she is permitted to taste the wine, and then acknowledging that the subject bottle is as it should be short stops a lot of useless discussion and posturing.
re: redfish62
Which countries are those?
While a heavy dose of TCA is easy enough to detect from halfway across the room, some bottles are only slightly tainted. Also, the tasting isn't just supposed to detect cork taint, it's also intended to prevent the diner from being served a wine that's cooked or oxidized or otherwise flawed.
A person who's familiar a particular wine and what it's supposed to taste like will be able to detect minor flaws more readily than someone who's unfamiliar with the vintage / producer / style / etc. So a server or sommelier may be in a better position than the diner to stop a bad bottle from making it to the table.
Obviously, this isn't the norm in the US these days, but I wouldn't have a problem with it.
re: alanbarnes
re: alanbarnes
Well, we experienced it at three restaurants in DC last week, so it is not a forgotten procedure. The week before, in London, it was done for every bottle, in every restaurant.
Though I am perfectly capable of determining my wines, I appreciated the intent, and the time required. It allowed me to spend more time with my guests.
re: Bill Hunt
So, at every restaurant- your WAITER came to your table, opened up your wine, poured themselves a taste- told you it was fine..........then poured for the rest of you?
I need to get out more. I think I am behind the times.
re: sedimental
If my server asked to taste the wine, that he/she had just opened, I would have no issues. I would then ask them, "well, how is it?"
As mentioned, that would give me a moment more with my guests.
That the server/restaurant even cared would be a positive. Too often, I see more of a "take it, or leave it" attitude, and appreciate that much less.
Though in the UK, we just poured 13 bottles for a dinner. Our sommelier tasted each bottle (no tastevin, but a clean stem for each), and then presented each for me - again, in a clean stem, even if it was the also the previous wine. I appreciated that.
re: Isolda
Funny you mention that - I did a stint as a busboy at a fancy french resto while I was in college in Philly, and I have yet to thank those who surprisingly left behind a nice portion of a killer expensive wine. I had the swill maneuver down pat as I entered the worker- bee area, and enjoyed some pretty good grape juice! Sophomoric Mateus to Margaux was a fun quantum leap for this guy.
re: Isolda
According to my wife, he didn't swallow. I didn't learn of the "taste" until later. When he first brought the un-opened bottle, he whispered something to my son-in-law. I later learned of his secret request. Just new to me, but no complaints. It was a 2006 Mount Eden Cab. ($79) I'm still P.O'd about that veal chop. Otherwise, the staff was top notch. I think the place just opened.
I can't comment on "proper" but I appreciate anyone who would attempt NOT to serve me bad wine. At my favorite restaurant the wait and bar staff always at least sniff the open bottle before serving. What I think is more odd is when restaurants that put so much thought, talent and creativity into making their food perfect, then expect the diner to discover the flawed wine.
I have never had that happen. I would be surprised -and probably too surprised to say no. I don't think it's standard so I would wonder about that as a policy. Unless you are ordering a very old wine, the chance of it being off (in any way) is soooo small. I can't see the point. Seems strange to me.
re: sedimental
>>"Unless you are ordering a very old wine, the chance of it being off (in any way) is soooo small."<<
According to some estimates, about 5% of bottles suffer from cork taint. That doesn't strike me as an insignificant risk. I'd be willing to bet that plenty of diners drink wines that are less than they should be and never know.
re: alanbarnes
And that's just cork taint. I'd say about >15% of wine I'm served in a restaurant is flawed in some way, especially if you take serving temperature into consideration.
re: alanbarnes
Estimates are actually between 2 and 5 percent for *all* cork taint (not just TCA). Again...sooooo small. The chance that the average consumer would get one of those bottles in a restaurant is tiny.The chance that the consumer would even be able to taste it is even smaller. Generally, unless you are ordering an aged wine......you are sniffing and swirling just for show.
If more 15 percent of the wine in a restaurant is flawed, then something is wrong in the restaurant.
re: sedimental
First off, while there are many flaws that can be found in wine, cork taint is caused by TCA. Period.
The cork industry insists that rates of taint are very low - around one percent - but eight percent of the bottles at a 2004 Wine Show in Sydney, Australia were corked, as were seven percent of the 2800 bottles tested by Wine Spectator in 2005.
Those latter numbers are more consistent with my personal experiences. I've only gotten a huge dose of TCA once, but am served mildly corked wine a few times a year. And we're not just talking about older vintages here; the most recent tainted bottle I encountered was a current-release Napa Valley rose.
People have different levels of sensitivity to TCA; if you can't taste it, maybe you really are "sniffing and swirling just for show." But I pick it up pretty readily, and even if it doesn't dominate a wine's nose it tends to kill other flavors and aromas. So even a bottle that isn't obviously tainted can be less than ideal.
It's educational to sample a flawed wine and then taste the same wine without the flaw. (My wife just thought the rose we were served wasn't very good; her opinion changed dramatically when the bottle was replaced.) But a nice dinner isn't necessarily the best time or place for that education. If a server or a sommelier can stop a tainted bottle before it gets to my glass, I for one will be grateful.
ETA: The fifteen percent number of "flawed" bottles invino mentioned included wines served at the incorrect temperature. Using that definition, I'd say that fifteen percent is on the low side. But it's nothing that a few minutes in an ice bucket (or warming on the table) can't fix.
re: alanbarnes
I am not going to argue. I have collected wine for 30 years. I have never had an actual corked bottle served me at a restaurant -although I have had bottles that were not properly stored.
To serious collectors, if corked bottles were so common- we would never spend thousands on them (buy, sell, trade) from other collectors. That being said, there are some vineyards that have problems-but they are known and prices are reduced because of it.
At most, if you said that 5 out of 100 bottles at a restaurant were actually "corked", of those say 1/2 would be out of the average persons price range (because aged wines have a higher likelihood for many reasons)-so what are the chances that you just happen to pick one of those 2 bottles in *that* restaurant *that* night for dinner? Enough to have the waiter taste it first? Pleeeese. If the bottle is not at a decent temperature to YOUR liking- then having the waiter taste it first is irrelevant.
re: sedimental
Assuming that you've been drinking wine in restaurants for as long as you've been collecting it, there's no way you could **not** have been served a corked bottle by now. You just didn't detect it.
Some people pick up on TCA at 2 parts per trillion; others don't notice it until the concentration is more than ten times that much. Presumably you fall toward the latter end of the spectrum. But just because you can't taste the stuff doesn't mean it's not there.
re: alanbarnes
I work in a restaurant where I have had the occasional collector drink an entire bottle of horrible wine (they have offered tastes) that they brought from their home. I have also had people leave parts of a bottle that we could then tell was corked. It is true that people cannot always tell that there is something wrong with their wine. One guy I told the wine was gone and he said "we'll let it open open up." He then called me over and admitted I was right and ordered another bottle. I am, however; just a waitress.
re: Missmoo
Well, there you have it. Conclusive proof that we should be having the wait staff taste all our wine first.
I might even have them taste of bit of my steak too because sometimes I think the kitchen doesn't know what medium rare is.
re: sedimental
Snarky! ;)
As a somm, I found about 15 flawed bottles a week. I was probably opening around 300 or so, on average. That seems to be in line with what alan and I thought. My wines were all served at the correct temp, though. ;)
I think a lot of people just don't pick up flaws in their wine easily and think that's how it's "supposed" to taste. Once I open a new bottle for the guests, they're usually shocked how off that a wine they initially thought was fine ended up being.
re: invinotheresverde
Maybe a bit snarkey, but the topic of this conversation is wait staff tasting your wine. My opinion is that there is no legit reason for them to do it and I still have not heard a legit reason. Experts have varied opinions on the percentage of flawed wine...and what the flaw is or if it is a flaw they like (a bit of brett for example). There are many variables.
Certainly the idea that the customer can't tell if it is "bad or not" is a goofy reason IMHO. Having a somm taste a wine that you have never tried before -is different. I would probably appreciate that, but that is not the topic.
In the example above- with the wait staff telling the collector that the wine was bad- then the collector wanting to "wait till it opens up" - then having it truly be bad- is that sometimes a wait time will make a difference - and it is really hard to pour a very expensive *already paid for* bottle down the drain if there is the slightest chance it can be saved! Especially if you have had experience with the wine and know to try to wait it out. I hardly think that it shows that (in general) the wait staff are more educated than the collector. I am sure there are times when a wait staff *is* more knowledgeable than the customer, but I still say it would feel weird to me to have a wait staff ask for a taste.
re: sedimental
The first time I had a waiter taste my wine for me was at the now defunct Fleur de Lys in Vegas. It was comical, since the dude obviously knew nothing about wine. If he had, I would've had no beef with him doing so (though at that price point, there really should've been a somm on the floor, but I digress).
I agree that it totally blows to dump expensive wine and that a bit of air may make a difference sometimes.
re: invinotheresverde
Somms are a different matter- and "a few trainings of a waiter does not a sommelier make". Seriously, if you re-read the OP...it would have been better for the wait staff to have tasted the food before serving :)
re: sedimental
Are you seriously claiming that upon receipt of a sommelier certificate a person suddenly emerges from the inky darkness of complete wine ignorance into the bright light of oeno-omniscience? Or that **every** customer knows more about **every** wine than **every** server?
No one here is claiming that it is always required for the server to ask to taste a wine before it's served. And certainly no one is claiming that the patron is obligated to grant such a request.
But if a server is knowledgeable about wine in general, or especially if that server is familiar with the particular bottle the customer has ordered, I see absolutely nothing improper about a request to taste the wine before presenting it. S/he's just being helpful and trying to maximize the dining experience. That's a server's job.
Many (not all, mind you) servers are more familiar with the wines they're pouring than many (again, not all) of the patrons they serve. Such a server might use that familiarity to detect a flawed bottle and prevent it from being served. How is that anything other than a legitimate reason for the server to request permission to taste the wine?
re: alanbarnes
"Are you seriously claiming that upon receipt of a sommelier certificate a person suddenly emerges from the inky darkness of complete wine ignorance into the bright light of oeno-omniscience? Or that **every** customer knows more about **every** wine than **every** server?"
Nope. I never said any of that. I am not sure why you would make that up. I actually never came close to saying it.
"I see absolutely nothing improper about a request to taste the wine before presenting it."
Okay. That would be your opinion, you can have one. Mine is different from yours. By the looks of the responses in this thread- many others are of the same opinion as myself, so I guess I am not too unique in it.
"How is that anything other than a legitimate reason for the server to run interference?"
I don't need or want a server to "run interference" for me. I see it as completely unnecessary. I don't really want them to taste my food first either. That was kind of a joke.
re: sedimental
>>"I don't need or want a server to "run interference" for me. I see it as completely unnecessary. "<<
See, I have no problem with that. You don't want a server to taste your wine. You see it as completely unnecessary. So if a server politely asks you "would you like me to taste this?," you can politely decline. (Although if you've been drinking wine for thirty years and seriously believe that you've never had a corked bottle, perhaps you really should consider enlisting the help of someone who **can** weed out the flawed stuff.)
Despite the caption of this thread, the real question isn't whether the server should be permitted to taste your wine or whether s/he should presume taste anyone's wine without permission. It's whether the request for that permission was inappropriate in the first place. And despite lots of knee-jerk reactions from people who've responded here, no one has articulated a reason that it is.
re: alanbarnes
I don't know if it is inappropriate or not, if it is the restaurants policy to have the wait staff offer to taste the wine- then so be it! Some customers will appreciate it- some won't. I would find it weird and unnecessary and completely see why the OP questions it. I have not changed my mind about finding it weird, despite all your insistence that I should not find it weird.
As far as insulting me about not being able to pick up flaws in wine, I will overlook that comment and move on. Cheers!
re: sedimental
Insulting you? Seriously?
Sensitivity to TCA is genetic. Some folks taste it, others don't. The fact that you don't pick it up is no more "insulting" than noting that you have brown (blue, green, hazel, etc.) eyes or can(t) smell asparagus piss.
But as somebody who's very sensitive, it's my opinion that tainted wines tend to be deficient in other areas as well. Even absent the "wet dog" smell others don't notice, tainted wines just aren't as good. They're too sour and the fruit disappears too early.
My opinion is reinforced by my experiences. Earlier I gave an example of a wine where my wife couldn't detect any TCA in a bottle we were served, but found the replacement bottle infinitely better. She couldn't taste cork taint, but the fruit was brighter, the acid was more balanced - for her it was a very good wine instead of a mediocre one. The difference was subtle, but it was entirely attributable to cork taint.
Why would you ever refuse to to let someone who can actually taste the difference allow you - at no additional charge - to replace an inferior wine with a better one?
re: alanbarnes
I pick up flaws in wine as well as anyone else (anyone else without superpowers, that is). This topic is about feelings related to the server asking to taste your wine at the table. Nothing more.
Typically, when the conversation starts down the path of "my palate is more sensitive than your palate" and gets OT and circular .....the chowteam steps in, so why go there? Just have a different opinion and let it go.... have a sip of untainted wine...because statistically...it will be untainted. LOL
(that was a joke)
Good luck.
re: sedimental
Oh, I think that the reason has been stated multiple times - to save the patron from drinking a flawed bottle of wine. I do not think that it could be any more clear, than that.
As for the ability to tell an "off" wine, it seems that you are not capable, and should definitely rely on the wait-staff to do so for you. Suddenly, your restaurant wines will be much, much better. No more mustiness. No more higher than intended acid. No more scalped fruit. It should be a new world of wine, just waiting for you.
As far a "waiting for the wine to open up," there are many elements that can be off-putting at first, but because of those elements' volatility, will "blow off" in time. Think Bret in some Rhônes here. To some, that might be considered a flaw, while not to others.
Good luck,
re: Bill Hunt
I have no problem with musty wines or acid? Where on earth did you read that? I promise that I am not suffering endlessly with bad wine because I always manage to get that whopping 5 percent of corked wine and don't know it!
re: sedimental
Where did I read what? I was citing some of the ancillary aspects of wines affected by TCA - musty aroma, and taste, higher than normal acid and scalped fruit. I did not read those attributes, but know them from my experience.
Maybe I am just missing something.
As for the topic at hand, if the staff saves me the task of finding these elements, I am happy. If not, I will find them. If I do, and they do not, I hope that the will go with my findings. If not, they have forever lost a patron, and I tip well.
re: sedimental
Funny, that wasn't what my point was, it was that it was true that often people cannot tell that a wine is bad. And I was not offering an opinion on the waiter asking to taste the wine, which would seem strange to me as a customer, but not something I would get all up in arms about. Also, your analogy should be that you don't know what medium rare is, since the comparison is about customer knowledge.
re: sedimental
Actually, they should already have tasted the steak, that evening, before the restaurant opened.
Are you so hung up on loosing a sip of your wine, that you would want your guests to be served flawed wines?
re: Bill Hunt
Of course not.
How do you know I am dining with guests? That has nothing to do with anything.
Having your waiter asking to taste the wine first is not a crime. It would feel strange. This has *never* been a standard in the restaurant industry before. Maybe it will be a new trend. I hope not because I think it's weird. It's as weird to me as a waiter asking to taste my food first. Following your logic-there is a much higher likelihood that something will not be quite right with my food that the waiter could "detect" first (just like the OP said). So why wouldn't the waiter do that? I will tell you why....it's weird :)
re: sedimental
I do not know such, but almost always am. Let me rephrase, "my guests." Does that play better?
As far as a standard, I have experienced it over 50 years, though mostly at Michelin starred restaurants, and the request to taste normally comes from a sommelier.
re: sedimental
The fact of the matter is that corked wine happens more frequently than you might think or that your experience leads you to believe. I worked for a few years at a four start New York restaurant and often encountered corked bottles. In part it was simply due to the volume of wine we were serving. Also, the storage that many restaurants have for their wine is not the best.
We also had regularly scheduled wine tastings, both underwritten by the distributor but also the restaurant itself. Waiters were expected to be articulate and conversant about every bottle on the list. The owner considered this a basic aspect of quality service given that approximately 50% of patrons ask for recommendations. I would easily tell you when any bottle was corked or off.
The new trend, while unusual, makes sense to me for several reasons. First, patrons are not paying to test a bottle of wine to see if it is good, they are paying to get a good bottle of wine. Who better to test it than the people who taste it frequently and know how it is supposed to taste?
Second, expensive wine is...expensive. It is not uncommon to have a patron send back a bottle of wine in the mistaken belief that it is "off", or, believe it or not, to impress their date.
We had one patron who came in once a week, always with a different date. He was a partner at Goldman Sachs, and he liked to put on a show. He would ALWAYS send back the first bottle that was served to him and we would scurry to make amends. Little did his date know that there was a standing agreement with this patron that he would pay for the wine he sent back, which was promptly removed to the bar where it was served by the glass as a special. Dinner is theatre. It goes both ways.
If you are all huffy because you pride yourself on your ability to detect a corked or turned bottle of wine and it is important to you to not have that tasting tradition usurped, then ask in advance for the waiter to not taste your wine. And of course you are always free to disagree with them. How that turns out is as much a function of the respect you show as cultivation of your palette.
re: sedimental
You have been very fortunate, indeed, or are not sensitive to TCA.
Good luck,
re: Bill Hunt
I have not had a corked wine at a restaurant, but I have had plenty of corked wine! There could be many factors for this, statistically it makes sense for me- I don't eat out weekly and I don't always order wine when I do. If you eat out frequently and order many bottles of wine and taste them all- you would run the risk of getting a corked bottle.
Industry estimates are from between 1 and 5 percent from most respected sources. this number would be higher if a particular winery has a big problem with contamination and a sampling was taken from it. There is no point in debating the number because there is no definitive number...other than everyone agrees that the number is very small and is getting smaller by the year.
re: sedimental
Actually, you have fallen for an old, and incorrect canard. Older wines are no more likely to be corked, than last month's release.
The server should also not be determining the temp of the wine. That is between whomever manages the cellar, and the patron. I always test the temp of my wines, and seldom ask for an ice bucket (except for some reds being served too warm). I do this initially, so as to save the wait-sfaff the effort of brining an ice bucket.
re: Bill Hunt
No "incorrect canard". From what I have read, the incidence of TCA is falling. This is why older wines may have a higher incidence. Also, the country of origin has a variable in this as well (for barrel and cork).
re: sedimental
The reason that it is falling is the capping under Stelvin, or other alternate closure. Under cork, it still remains in the 4% to 10% range. Why do you think that even some higher-end wines are going under alternate closures, especially with the marketing problem associated with wines that are not under cork?
Even with Stelvin, or other, non-cork closures, there can be other causes for TCA contamination, such as the barrel room. There have been several wineries, that had to be, at least partially, rebuilt, due to elements that contributed to TCA contamination.
In the last three months, I have encountered TCA from Italy, Argentina, US and France. The latter two had more, but I believe that reflects the wines that we consume normally.
re: Bill Hunt
Here is a great little "chatty" article written highlighting the absolute inability to put a definitive number on the issue of "corked wine". It gives a wide variety of educated opinions and anecdotal experiences on the vast issue of TCA, corked wines, other bacteria, flaws, percentages, experiences, tests, etc. It also talks about concepts such as individual tastes (sensitivities, likes/dislikes) and other reasons (ego, misidentification) why people may taste more "cork" in wines than others. These are wine lovers, experts and judges giving *exceedingly different* opinions on the topic. To me, this is why wine is fascinating, fun, and highly individualized...and highlights why others should not taste your wine for you.
re: alanbarnes
I agree on the educational value. I hold on to a few bottles, with varying degrees of TCA contamination, for lectures. Once one gets TCA on the nose, and the resultant issues on the palate, they never forget it.
re: sedimental
Well, the industry estimates are 4% to 10%. That translates to a max of 1.2 bottles per case. I recently had one case, where the TCA taint was 16% - higher than industry estimates, and hardly insignificant.
re: sedimental
Unfortunately, a fresh, properly stored wine can be off. Now, there are other flaws, that can manifest themselves in older wines, but even just-released wines can be flawed.
Your food is a different issue, but yes it is proper for your waiter to taste your wine, and proper that he asked beforehand so that if you begrudged the little bit he poured to make sure your wine was sound you could say no I will check it out myself.
re: linguafood
It's been a pleasure to listen to the professionals discuss this issue. I'm just a novice who appreciates good wine and the people that know good wine and know how to present it. My most memorable wine was a 1964 Chateau Haut Brion. Several years ago, I was whipping up spaghetti and meat balls for a couple friend of ours. When they walked in, they pulled out this wine from a paper bag. "We don't drink" they said, "my brother gave it to us and we think its a special wine." How right they were.
re: Querencia
Ding ding ding! This is what the waiter should have done!
re: iluvcookies
Look at it this way.....You might just have made a service worker a little happier in their drudgery of putting up with the whims, demands and affectations of those he/she "serves". You probably should feel good about that.
It is fairly common in higher-end restaurants. Once, many sommeliers wore a tastevin on a chain around their necks. This served a couple of purposes, plus was a good "show." The bowl is faceted and highly reflective, to show off the wine to the Sommelier. A little pour was smelled, and then usually tasted.
This "ritual" was as multi-faceted, as the tastevin. The sommelier could clearly see the wine from the bottle, and then could taste a little, to sample for flaws, or whether the wine was corked. If they found flaws, at any level, a good sommelier would not offer the bottle, but would replace it from the cellar.
While I can judge flaws, or TCA taint with the best of them, I like that the sommelier is directly involved - so long as they detect problems. That saves me having to point out problems.
At any wine event, the person doing the pours should do the same - sample every bottle, as it is opened.
Sorry that the veal chop was not up to task.
re: Bill Hunt
Bill, a little OT but I have an antique sterling tastevin on a chain. It is really beautiful and I can just imagine the show!
The OP was referring to the waiter tasting the wine in a restaurant- not a sommelier tasting it or tasting it at a wine event. Maybe this is a new trend in the restaurant industry? I have been to several exceptionally nice restaurants in the past 6 months in WA and CA and have not had this experience. When I order my bottle, it is opened, a tasting glass is offered to me, I taste my bottle -as is traditional in a restaurant. I have not had the experience of the waiter pouring his own glass and tasting before me, letting me know it is good- then pouring for me and others. Is this something you say you are experiencing too? I honestly have not seen it before.
re: sedimental
>>"a new trend in the restaurant industry"<<
What, that pretty good restaurants lack sommeliers but have servers who know something about wine? Sorry, but most places don't have wine stewards. And in those places you've got to rely on your server or you're totally on your own.
My stomping grounds are Northern California. PassionFish in Pacific Grove has a great wine program and very well-informed servers, but no somm. Ditto with the Waterboy here in Sacramento. Aziza in San Francisco doesn't have a world-class wine list, but it's got a Michelin star, fercryinoutloud. If a server at any of these places wanted to take a sip to ensure that a wine I'm drinking is all it should be, I'll always be more than happy to offer a taste.
re: alanbarnes
Alan, you didn't answer my question at all (see above) and I am really curious. Are you saying that you too- go to restaurants- and the servers now bring themselves a glass to your table -and ask you if they can taste it for you? This happens at all those places you listed??? Honestly, I have not had it happen yet. If this is now happening all over- I would consider that a "new trend in the restaurant industry".
When I have had somms make a recommendation to pair with my meal- they don't offer to taste it for me either though - they just ask if I like it. Do your somms ALWAYS ask to taste it for you? I don't believe that it is a requirement for somms to ask to taste your wine either. This would be new information to me too.
If it is a new trend- servers being required to offer to taste the wine of their customers...it is interesting to consider. It brings up interesting issues. There are not many jobs that require you to drink alcohol on the job if requested. Are there limits as to how much you drink in a shift? How about big tables with many different bottles? What if you become pregnant? Have a religion that doesn't allow alcohol? What if you are in recovery? A medical condition develops? What if you don't like wine? This would certainly change our current ideas and requirements of "food servers", would it not? Fine dining servers currently have no requirements like this whatsoever. Maybe they will get pay raises and be called something else? Food servers not being hired because they are nondrinkers?? Interesting.....
re: sedimental
My point was somewhat different than yours. I'm not saying that servers at these places routinely ask to taste the customers' wines. They don't. What I am saying is that in the absence of a sommelier, it's not necessarily a bad idea for a knowledgeable server to do so.
A few years back a server opened a bottle (a young pinot, IIRC) and poured me a taste. It was a little funky, but I thought it might just need to open up. Seeing the look on my face, the server asked "may I?" When I assented she took a sip, whisked the bottle away, and replaced it. Bingo, problem solved; the replacement bottle was a vast improvement.
Because she knew the wine, the server was able to identify a minor flaw that I wasn't sure about. And the only way she was able to do that was by taking a sip. Had it been up to me, I would have wasted half an hour sitting and swirling and might have just decided that the wine wasn't to my liking. Instead I had an enjoyable bottle immediately. You may disagree, but I think that's great service.
re: alanbarnes
Okay. That's what I thought. I think Hunt misunderstood as well. It is hard to believe that all those restaurants he went to- had the servers offering to taste every bottle for him.
I don't get out to restaurants all that much these days so I thought maybe I was really missing something.
There is nothing wrong with your scenario. I am glad it worked out for you. If there is ever a problem with the wine- I simply send it back. It rarely happens, I can count on one hand. I can't see having our food servers become professional "tasters" for us though- I think that went out with one of the King Henry's...along with elevator button pushers...and bathroom attendants...all superfluous, elitist, ridiculous job requirements for people that can't tolerate the slightest inconvenience. Yes, that is my very opinionated opinion :)
IMO for the few times in a lifetime - I would just order another bottle, leave the server out of it, they have enough to do.
re: sedimental
hello sediment. I've been following this thread with interest. The server did not taste the wine at our table. He brought the open bottle to our table after his tasting. I do not recall him giving me the cork for inspection. I was told that he didn't swallow the wines he tasted. As the one paying the bill, I'm not sure that I like this practice. Suppose the wine passed his taste, but not mine.?
re: alanbarnes
That is when the manager comes over and asks who am I to question the palate of the well qualified, highly trained server.
re: alanbarnes
That did not happen. I was only giving you a hypothetical.
re: Baron
mmmm. the wine should be opened at the table after a proper presentation, not brought over in an opened bottle. perhaps mr. florence is unfamiliar with the pretty strict american alcohol laws designed to prevent anti-contamination (mixing of spirits) post-prohibition, and folks' generally low comfort level with just getting an opened jug of some kind of wine as a result. . . open the container in front of the customer, and the bottle is never out of her/his sight, please.
the cork presentation is a bit dated and silly, though you can of course get some info from a cork if the wine has been stored very incorrectly. many fine places don't do it because then you have a piece of refuse (the cork) cluttering the tabletop and someone can inadvertently put their glass down on it and have a spill (you'd be astounded how often it happens). tasting is better. i think the server tasting your bottle away from the table changes the scenario to one that wouldn't be copacetic for me. and the mgr sounds like an ass.
re: Baron
Baron: not to mention the completely poor taste this shows, it's also strictly illegal in every state I can think of - it's a way of preventing places from decanting cheapo wine into an expensive bottle. Any bottle that shows up to your table already opened should expect a fast u-turn right back to the bartender it came from, directly.
re: mamachef
It also prevents anyone from "adulterating" your wine.
re: mamachef
I want to be fair to the restaurant. I was treating my daughter and son in law who live in Mill Valley to dinner. I assigned the wine selection to my son in law.
El Paseo is a grill so we agreed on a Cab and took the waiter's suggestion (2006 Mount Eden). The server came back with the unopened bottle and whispered something to my son in law. Then left our table, but I believe he remained in the room. He then came back to the table with the bottle already opened and poured me a taste - which was fine. I later asked my son in law about the whisper when he told me the server had asked if he could taste the wine. I had my back to the room and my wife told me that she saw him tasting other wine - spitting into a separate glass. I don't want to start a rumor that the restaurant was breaking the law. Otherwise the service was impeccable - except for the very long wait for the mains. (perhaps another topic) I wrote a personal letter to Tyler Florence about ruining my main course. We'll see if or how they respond.
re: Baron
i appreciate that you are not trying to dog a restaurant over one issue. so many of these NAF threads are precisely like that. i am very glad that the "ass" mgr was totally an hypothetical example and that your service was otherwise great.
i still think that opening the bottle away from the table is iffy/questionable at best, totally unacceptable at worst. the restaurant should rethink this, as it's more troubling than your original issue of whom is tasting the wine, imo.
re: soupkitten
Well, there's "away from the table" and then there's "away from the table." I've had sommeliers do their thing at a separate table a few feet away and in full view of anybody who cared to watch. That didn't bother me at all. It would seem weird if the wine was opened on the other side of the dining room or, worse, back in the kitchen.
re: alanbarnes
It seems like the "spitting" portion of the event drives the "spittee" away from the immediate area where the dining public may see them. Perhaps if they are actually "tasting" rather than "spitting" the process could be done more in the observable vicinity of the table(s).
re: psycho_fluff
Why, though?
I've been reading all of this with much interest. I will preface by saying that we eat out only several times a year, so we purchase wine at a restaurant a similar amount of times. I will also admit that I have no belief that I would be particularly good at detecting a "slightly corked" wine. But here I wonder about the context of the "tasting". It sounds like this is a high end restaurant, with well trained staff, so I can imagine that what is being offered is a service (though I've never been offered this service, and have eaten at a number of high end restaurants). However, I can also imagine that the reason the waiter might ask for a taste (or at least a reason that might occur to the patron) is that rather the waiter is trying to "build up his knowledge" of the wines offered by the restaurant, so that he might be able to offer a more knowledgable opinion in the future. Obviously, none of us were there. But if it is the later, then it *is* inappropriate (IMO) for the request; that sort of learning should be done on the restaurant's bottles, not mine.
re: DGresh
Ahhh, I think I prefer my favorite osteria in Sulmona, Abruzzo. Where the owner says "Rosso?" and I reply "Si"! and that is the end of the discussion, although, it is HIS family's product, and of course, as in all of Italia "Ours is the best!!"
I have observed that the level of wine service often varies with the price of the bottle. I'm not a wine connoisseur by any means, but even I have had my decanter and glasses primed by the server on occasion. One would expect the wine to be tasted before going through all that trouble. Surely, you would not prime all the glassware with tainted wine, as it was done before I got my taste. I observed this for a couple seated next to me at the bar at Incanto in SF the other night and I have found it fairly common on a nice bottle.
re: BN1
Yes, but that is a bit different. When a wine is decanted- anyone that has the sense of smell can decide if it should be tasted first or served. I wouldn't suspect anyone would serve a "stinky" tainted wine, at least , I would hope not. There are all different procedures for different dinners too (wine flight, vintners dinners, wine events, etc). The OP was referring to the server tasting the wine after opening the bottle at your table. That is unusual.
If you trust the waiter enough to recommend the wine, you shouldn't have any problem with him tasting it first to make sure it isn't flawed. After all, if it is, he just saved you the trouble and embarrassment of having to send it back. Before you say you wouldn't be embarrassed, remember that most people who are not wine geeks often feel embarrassed to say that they think the wine may be flawed, especially if it isn't a wine that they are familiar with.
re: dinwiddie
Good points.
Recently, we had the sommelier reject two bottles of wines that I chose. Saved me having to do so, and the third WAS the charm.
Now, that it took her three generous pours of my DRC to determine if it was good, was suspicious... [Grin]
so here's the deal... i work in a ** restaurant as a sommelier and wine buyer. i will taste because i guarantee i know wine better than the person at the table. i can spot a flaw in a wine that a guest will not be able to. it could be just a hint of tca or touch of va. i have 2 servers that i encourage to do the same thing as they are also certified somms. if you come out to a restaurant trust that what we are doing is to ensure that you have the best experience possible. i'm not just trying to wet my palate or steal your wine. if i just wanted a drink i would go open a bottle for myself... and i do on occasion.
its no different that your bartender taking a straw taste of your cocktail or the chef trying the dish as he preps it.


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I've watched the school only improve since our new principal came on board. The staff knows all the children really well and what their needs are. They strive to support all kids at all levels. It's been great. My only complaint is that they combined the K/1 classes. I don't think that first graders and kindergarteners should share a classroom, at least for the first part of the year. Still, they made sure that my kids were learning and having fun. The support from the community makes it a very special school.
We had our child enrolled at a well regarded private school but Steele contacted us a little over a week prior to the start date to let us know they had a spot for our child. We had to forefeit one full year of tuition to opt with Steele which we ended up doing and have been pleased. There is a high degree of parental involvement and much success with fund-raiding which means the kids have access to amenities they might not otherwise (including a second teacher in every room). As is the case with any environment, there are flaws. But my child now has an enthusiasm for learning that she never had in several years of pre-school and every day she looks forward to school. Worth it at any price.
We have choiced this school 2 years ago for my 2 boys. I've never been pleased before like I was when they were at Steele. I am very sorry that we had to leave the school because we moved to another district. Teachers are very friendly, they welcome each parent as if they have known you for years, very responsive to parent's questions. Very friendly environment. We loved the British classrooms, it has been very helpful for my kids. Really for us it was a super school.
the school has lack of diversity and poor special education services. we live here but have tried to choice out for a couple of years running. the school is great for the average kid but lacks creativity in helping the child that lands outside of the box to thrive.
The PTA is very involved and raises enough money to help provide a second educator in every single classroom at Steele, cutting down the teacher to student ratio. This is unheard of in almost any other school in Denver. There are wonderful teachers, a successful dedicated leader in Principal Boyer, and combined age classrooms (ie-1/2 and 3/4/5) in the British Primary classrooms and the contemporary classrooms. And the school's innovative and award winning garden program provides healthy eating options in the cafeteria. The enrichment options are endless: healthy cooking, sports camp, dance, running programs, drawing and art, science, 4H, and Spanish. As parents, we have been very happy with the social and academic education our child is receiving at Steele.
I choiced into Steele Elementary about 8 years ago, and I really liked it. I had a lot of great friends, and great teachers. I also was very prepared for Middle School, even though I am in the IPM program at Hamilton. I think this was mainly because of the homework I got in third through fifth grades. While it wasn't much compared to the amount I get now, my teacher's style forced us to plan our time wisely, making it much easier to finish the assignments well that I get in Middle School. Also, my teachers cared for the students and did their best to give their students the best opportunities. For example, if you excel at spelling, you may get spelling words from online sources like the Scripps National Spelling bee instead of from the other students' sources. Overall, I was very pleased with Steele, and I felt it was a great choice that my family and I made when deciding to choice in there.
We choices into Steele 5 years ago and our daughter has been very happy. if it is any testament to Steele our daughter was just excepted to the advanced IPM program at Hamilton middle school, she also got inTo Morey high strides and GALS. As with all schools it's the teacher that matters most. We have had a couple issues but overall she has done very well. We were contemporary for one year and BP for four. Both programs are great and equally represented in the school. Chef Andy and the seed to table program are truly awesome- we even got a salad bar which we supplement with our own garden produce put into our cafeteria! It is true that Steele has had way too many principals but this was due to a voracious parent population which was both positive and negative- we have one of the strongest PTAs and are able to fund extra educators in every classroom reducing the student teacher ratio because of parent involvement. Overall I would send my child here again and will be sad to leave at the end of this fifth grade year!
I think this is a fine school if you have an average child, e.g., one who does not have special needs or is gifted and talented, highly gifted and talented, etc. The front office staff is great, and very responsive to parents. The school is becoming overcrowded, like most schools in Denver. This is not a terribly diverse school, though, but that may not be a priority for some.
The school has a wonderful sense of community through it's parent involvement, community garden (and seed to table program), farmers market, and student activities. The children (and parents) love the facility with a planetarium, well stocked library, and wonderful, caring teachers!
Everything. Great school, great pta, great teachers.
We moved our son to Steele in 1st grade after doing a lot of online research and checking out schools inthe area. It has a great feel to it - amazing facilities (planatarium, superb playground, classroom gardens), as well as some really great teachers. The parents are very involved and present and the community is welcoming. The British Primary programs has been amazing for our child - the consistency of three years within a cohort, the bond between teachers and students and the mentoring that goes on among the different ages are unique and positive aspects of the program.
been very disappointed with this school over the years. too many prinicpal changes. the parents and PTA smother all diversity out of it. not the school for kids with any delays or learning difficulties. the BP is a joke. nothing British about it and just an excuse to not do homework and have parents think all their kids are somehiow gifted.
A great school with a great sense of community. The new principal, Ms Pullan, really works well with both staff and parents and cares about our kids. The school is constantly focusing on how to better itself and use the lack of funds provided by the state. Our fundraisers are fun and a great way to build our Steele community while helping better our school for our children. Parent participation abounds we recently instituted Partners in Reading where a volunteer parent has a child they work with weekly to help them with their reading. And last but not least the Teachers are enthusiastic, smart and genuinely care about our children. We are so fortunate that our kids go to Steele Elementary.
My son has flourished at this school. the teaching staff is very good and I cannot say enough about the sense of community at this school. The academic test scores are high and they still value the arts. There are many activites offered after school in sports, arts and academia and my son has enjoyed so many. I am so glad we decided to go to Steele and would recommend it highly to anyone k-5th. Wish they had a middle school associated with it because it as been such a great experience for him to start off here. There is high parental involvement too!
My child is in the contemporary program and loves it. doing very well. there is a lot of discussson between the BP program and the contemporary and many of the parents forget it is still a public school. but overall the school is excellent and I would highly recommend it. Love the planetarium in the school...can't beat that!
We have been at Steele for 3 years. We have been extremely disappointed in Steele. We are bombarded with fundraisers... yet, the amount of money they spend at these events is enormous compared with other, higher rated schools. We were constantly asked to bring in paper and other neccesities (throught out the school year) that most schools will provide. The principal was often not at the school and our child never reached reading level and I was never informed by the teacher... although, I was there every day and spoke with the teacher numerous times during each week. No one seems to be in charge... and if your child is not in the British Primary program... they are apt to be left behind. This school caters to the BP program and most of their funding goes to that program... you should be aware before enrolling your student.
This school has many exceptional teachers who work well together. The British Primary program is truly excellent. Parent involvement is high and there is a good collaboration between staff and parents. The principal is excellent and very accessible. There are a wide variety of after school clubs and classes. Some parents have been unhappy with special education and classroom accommodations for children with 'invisible' disabililties. Services for more mainstream learning disabilities are more adequate.
We've been at Steele for 6 years, in the British Primary program - it's an awesome little school - we've beeen very fortunate.
Steele has had three different principals in the past three years. The approach to creating learning goals for individual students is reactive, not proactive. Expectations of mediocraty abound, and the resources of highly motivated parents are underutilized.
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The Community Rating is the school's average rating from its community members (e.g., parents, students, and school staff). The highest possible rating is five stars; the lowest is one star.
320 South Marion Parkway
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|Paul Pierce's Truth on Health Rally
|09.24.10 at 1:27 pm ET
If you're looking for something to do with your kids in the Boston area tomorrow, Paul Pierce is scheduled to appear at a rally in Copley Square between 11 a.m. and 2 p.m. on behalf of his charities, The Truth on Health and FitClub34. Pierce has been volunteering to help children lead more active lifestyles. For more info, check out the event's Facebook page here.


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Orchestral and Choral works > Works for Chorus and Orchestray
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Masses no. 3-4
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Monday, June 11, 2012
Planemaker Airbus celebrated its 10th anniversary in Wichita. What started as a small engineering shop in Wichita's Old Town neighborhood a decade ago has seen tremendous growth. Airbus is also investing with hopes Wichita will grow more of its own engineers.
Some in Airbus thought the establishment of its engineering center as a 'test case." Judging from the growth over the decade, local engineers passed the test with flying colors.
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Airbus used the occasion to announce a partnership with United Way, Wichita schools, and WSU to encourage Wichita students to study Aerospace Engineering. The Airbus Foundation is putting up $250,000 to connect at-risk students with engineering mentors.
Airbus Americas President and CEO Barry Eccleston says, "Through mentoring and tutoring and flying experiences and more we want them to learn to dream bigger."
And perhaps, someday a student inspired to get into engineering by the Airbus investment will be a new hire here.
Airbus says it has no interest in Boeing's Kansas facility, but the planemaker says it does expect to get some good employees from Boeing's decision to close its Wichita plant by 2013 and send work to 3 other states.


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