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A comiXologist Recommends:
Kate Kasenow recommends The Woods #3
In the first two issues, new and original BOOM! Studios' series The Woods established itself as the perfect storm of apocalyptic high school adventures in sci-fi horror. If that phrasing alone seems a bit intense for you, then you'd better fasten your seatbelts, because issue #3 is one wild ride.
Despite what the faculty and staff seem to think, things are looking grim for the students of Bay Point Prepartory Academy. After getting mysteriously transported to another world, the principal is daydreaming while the athletics department is turning the school into the dystopian setting of 1984. Meanwhile, Adrian Roth is fighting over control of a ragtag group of students with Sanami Ota. Both have powerful ideas about what needs to be done, but, unfortunately, so does everyone else.
Underneath the fantastic setting and lurking horrors of the plot, the story is essentially a diverse set of character studies. Writer James Tynion IV (jamesthefourth) has done a brilliant job of delving into each character's personality and initiatives while still leaving a lot of mystery for readers to contemplate. Not to be discounted in the least, Michael Dialynas' (thewoodencrown) artwork gives a unique look and feel to the multitude of genres represented. I've long been a fan of Dialynas' work and seeing him tackle both endearing character moments as well as monstrous acts of violence is both refreshing and invigorating. Like a bright cherry atop this cake of terror, Jose Gonzalez's colors add vibrance and surreality to this mysterious new world and its newest residents.
By now you might be asking yourself, "Why high school students? How will they survive? Who's behind all this?"
Jump into The Woods now and find out!
[Read The Woods #3 on comiXology!]
For fans of: action, science fiction, horror
Kate Kasenow is a comics artist from Indiana currently living in Manhattan. She works at ComiXology as a Lead Digital Editor and spends most of her spare time re-reading J. R. R. Tolkien.
A comiXologist Recommends:
Harris Smith recommends Vertigo Quarterly: CMYK
Comics printing is based on four colors, Cyan, Magenta, Yellow and Key (black). Though these colors are part of the fusion of elements that comprise how we view sequential narratives, they have rarely been the basis for the conceptual vision of comics, until now. This week, Vertigo launches their new anthology Vertigo Quarterly: CMYK. The artists and writers contributing to this intriguing new series were given a color from the CMYK model and asked to represent it within their narrative, be it in terms of theme or mood, or as an element of the plot, or a visual motif.
Unlike previous Vertigo anthologies, such as Strange Adventures and Ghosts, Vertigo Quarterly: CMYK eschews big name creators in favor of up-and-coming talent, and the result, in this first issue, is a very rich and varied collection of unique and original voices and visions across a variety of genres and styles, all based, in sometimes ingenious ways, around the blued hues of Cyan.
In Shaun Simon and Tony Akins's sly, E.C. Comics-inspired horror story, the color pops up as a grim punchline. Amy Chu and Alitha Martinez's "So Blue" uses the color deceptively, the title suggesting a tale of depression but delivering something darkly humorous instead. Death Sentence creator Monty Nero and artist Al Davison use the color as a striking visual cue in their smart sci-fi story , which is otherwise in black and white.
Concept aside, CMYK presents a refreshing breadth of diverse, intelligent stories by emerging voices in the comics world, in genres ranging from sci-fi and horror to crime and fantasy. It's a fun and thoughtful read for comic fans who like some ideas and vision along with their entertainment.
[Read Vertigo Quarterly: CMYK on comiXology]
Harris Smith is a Brooklyn-based comics and media professional. In addition to his role as a Senior Production Coordinator at comiXology, he edits several comics anthologies, including Jeans and Felony Comics, under the banner of Negative Pleasure Publications. He's also the host of the weekly radio show Negative Pleasure on Newtown Radio.


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Submit News
Nissan Leaf Base Model Price Drops by More Than $6,000 to $28,800
Tiffany Kaiser
January 15, 2013 3:40 AM
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The drop in prices are mainly due to the fact that Nissan has moved Leaf production from Japan to Tennessee
Nissan's Leaf
just experienced a dramatic price drop, making it the cheapest five-seater electric vehicle (EV) in the U.S. At the North American International Auto Show (NAIAS), Nissan CEO Carlos Ghosn said the price of the base model 2013 Leaf has been cut by $6,400. Last year's base model went for $35,200, and now, the 2013 Leaf S will sell for $28,800 to start before a $7,500 federal tax credit (and any applicable state credit/rebate) is applied.
A couple of other Leaf models have seen a price cut as well. The Leaf SV will drop from last year's price of $35,200 to $31,820 this year. The Leaf SL is also going from $37,250 last year to $34,840 this year.
"With nearly 50,000 Leafs on the road globally, we are the leaders in zero emissions vehicles and our class-leading product just got better," said Billy Hayes, Global vice president of Leaf sales for Nissan. "From the very outset, Nissan has continuously advanced and refined the affordable zero emissions vehicle ownership experience. Now customers won't have to pay a premium for owning a green car that's really fun to drive, and that's exciting."
2013 Nissan Leaf
The drop in prices is mainly due to the fact that Nissan has moved Leaf production from Japan to Tennessee. It also has its lithium-ion batteries and motors manufactured there. Nissan announced that it began Leaf production at a new plant in Smyrna, Tennessee last Thursday. It will build the Leaf and gasoline vehicles in this plant, while building batteries at a separate plant next door. The plant is the result of a 2010 U.S. Department of Energy (DOE) loan for $1.4 billion. According to the DOE, Nissan can build up to 150,000 Leafs and 200,000 batteries annually at the Tennessee plants
Nissan's Leaf had a rough time last year as far as sales and performance goes. In July 2012, Leaf owners in Arizona complained that their
EVs were losing significant battery capacity
in the desert's high heat. Nissan
responded by basically saying that this was normal
and promised more open communication with owners of the Leaf EV.
Later, Nissan had to admit that it
wasn't going to hit its sales mark for 2012
, which was 20,000 Leafs. Nissan only sold 9,819 Leafs for the whole year -- less than half of its goal, and only 1.5 percent higher than the number it sold in 2011.
remember me
This article is over a month old, voting and posting comments is disabled
Volt is still a reasonable purchase
I actually own the Volt having bought it late last year. In Canada after taxes and the rebate in Ontario, it sells for $42 K. Although the Leaf is about $10 K less, I'd still get the Volt. I never have to worry about range as you can fuel this car up. Another problem that most people don't realize is that electric cars don't work so well when you live in an area where temperatures can dive to -4F or worse. The Volt gets around that by burning gas to keep you and the car warm literally. In cold climates, waste heat isn't waste heat. I would hate to see what the Leaf would do in our nasty winters. So far winter fuel mileage has been impressive, I'm seeing 40-50 mpg and keep in mind that's in very cold weather that caused my former 2005 corolla to go through gas like there was no tomorrow. It'll be interesting to see what it does in the summer. Insurance for a 2013 volt is actually the same as a 2005 corolla. It turns out insurance cares more about safety features than the price of a car. And yes you really need to drive an electric to understand why some folks are fans of them. They might not do 0-60 like a sports car but they have an absolutely smooth acceleration curve due to CVT type transmission so no gear jumps as in an automatic and they respond instantly. Other fun things you can do is if you're in a rush you can floor it literally and people arn't going to be wondering why it sounds like your engine is going to explode. It is that quiet. Cost wise I'll probably get back the extra $$$ I spent in gas in 10 years but yeah, it's closer to a luxury car. It's not going to save you a lot in $$$. And no worries about the battery. GM has massive reserves on the battery to make it last longer and they have a tool to swap out individual cells. All in all a really nice alternative to the Leaf.
"Vista runs on Atom ... It's just no one uses it". -- Intel CEO Paul Otellini
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It's back on the merry go round. If you're bored of my running round in circles please feel free to ignore this post. I really don't want to get annoying.
The thing is H keeps going back to his original story and no one on here believes that so I am stumped on how to move forward. He is writing me a timeline and a letter detailing everything. I should have it within the week.
Thing is we were talking last night and he is right back to the original story but with a bit more explanation.
Back to he didn't fancy her, it was the EA he wanted and not the physical stuff but when it happened he couldn't think if a way out without the shit hitting the fan.
Surely if his story only changes when I threaten to leave him then his original story must be the truth? When I say I don't believe it he agrees with almost anything I say so I don't leave. He has admitted to wanting someone new, not being able to resist etc but when I question him further it falls apart and he admits he didn't want PA.
he is saying that yes he wanted the EA, badly. He turned his life into a bubble with just the two of them in it. He really wanted that and has held his hands up with brutal honesty on that part - again it's never changed.
The kisses, he did want to kiss her. But not from a sexual point of view. It was all to get more attention, that was all that mattered to him, her wanting him so when she looked like she wanted to be kissed he didn't hesitate - by kissing her he could get the affirmation that yes she did want him and that was his goal. To find out of he was sexually attractive to other women his self esteem has always been so low he never believe anyone else could want him so when she clearly did he got carried away with it.
When she didn't kiss him back and he didn't like it either he thought they had gone back to an EA and the physical stuff had stopped. He went into panic mode scared he would lose his EA and his constant attention so he text her more than ever to make sure she knew he wanted to continue the EA.
When she picked him up the next night he told her not to bother but when she insisted he was flattered so he agreed. HE thought at that point he was just getting a lift home as she insisted she was only 5 mins away and why waste money on a taxi. He agreed. He wanted to talk, he wanted the attention and flattery. He had felt lonely all night at the pub and resentful I wasn't with him due to my problems and she text him all night and he let her kind of take my place. He did text me a few times but as she never stopped texting him he ended up texting her all night.
Then when she drove around and said she was looking for somewhere to park he pointed out a few parking spaces but she kept saying no not there. That's when he wondered what she was up to. Yeah if he wasn't interested he should have got out when she pulled up in the car park but he wanted to talk, he loved the fact she had gone out of her way to come and see him, he hoped she would make a pass after rejecting his kisses. He wanted his attention and ego boost. But he did plan on refusing her, he just wanted her to show she found him attractive then he would stop it. He never thought how he would stop it though cos he never really believed she would try anything, it was just a background suspicion/hope he had.
He thought he was in control and playing games with her but she was playing games of her own. all was normal for half an hour he started to relax and let his guard down. When she lifted her skirt he panicked. He didn't expect such an extreme move, after all she hadn't even kissed him back the day before. Because it was such a huge thing she did his mind was racing, how could he say no now (more to come on this later before you all roll your eyes lol) he just didn't have the balls to stand up to her. he didn't want to offend his EA, risk losing his EA, risk her telling me, he realised his game playing had brought this on. Told himself to just do what she wanted and get out of there. He took the easy route and told himself I would never know and he had already ruined our marriage so he did it.
I do believe he stopped quickly, I want to believe he didn't like it and his words and actions with me the next day back this up.
He told me it was the worst night of his life and he would never go out without me again. He didn't want freedom he wanted to come back to being family man and sorry he had been such a grumpy idiot for the past few weeks. He would not have done that if he wanted more. He never touched her again after.
Now for the important bit. I know you all think he is lying and at times I have too. But after talking to him and thinking things through this is the scenario I can see him falling into for quite a few reasons,
Namely he cannot say no to anybody. He gets walked all over at work, he will not say no or tackle the boss for overworking him, or even being rude or aggressive to him. He hates to even ask for his annual leave in case the boss grumbles. He HATES anyone being cross with him, cold with him - any form of rejection at all. if a neighbour needs help in the middle of his meal, he will leave it and go help - not say wait 20 mins he will just flat out leave his meal. He has always been this way. He won't stand up to his nightmare of a mother, what she says goes.
He has a universal need to be liked, wanted, appreciated. a desperate need. Never known anyone like him. He didn't get it as a kid or an adult from his family. HIs parents are cold practical people. He NEVER gets a hug or any affection from them. I have never known a family to be so cold and hard. They argue all the time but not in a healthy way. They storm out, go silent, ignore each other and explode saying the most hurtful and nasty things.
He also has very low self esteem. He was always the geeky one til he met me. He had girlfriends but they were rarely the ones he wanted, just the ones who wanted him. If they wanted him he would sleep with them whether he wanted them or not. All that mattered to him was they wanted him.
He has always been very flirty in the attempt to get flirting back to make him feel good. It rarely happens. So when his ex popped up on face book he went straight into extreme flirting mode - worse than ever cos it was on line and didn't feel real. He said his mind went back to being 17 with her again and he really wanted her to still like him. She politely rejected his advances.
Then when this one started in his workplace he couldn't believe how she was falling all over him. He was low from various problems at that point and she really is a master manipulator and he was so easy to manipulate. He started an EA with her immediately. It met all his need for attention and approval. He really forgot me in the thrill of it all.
He did try and stop it all a few times even the EA, the text records confirm this, but as usual was crap at standing up for himself and took the easy route of no confrontation. Plus until it turned physical he didn't really want to end it, only part of him did.
So, yes I have decided to believe his story, it fits with his personality. He is so desperate to be wanted and can never say no to anyone, he admits he is a wimp in that way. Someone asked if he would drink battery acid if he was asked to. He wouldn't drink it but he would stick his tongue in to get attention!
I know I will probably get 2x4 for believing him but I just want to move forward now. If it was a lie his story would change but it only changes when I threaten to leave and then he said he was willing to tell me anything to keep me even if he had to lie and say he wanted her physically. She was never his type (she was just like his mum!) but she was just attractive enough for her attentions to mean something to him.
He realises he had ZERO boundaries and how badly he has screwed up. He said he has spent his whole life wanting to be wanted. Not just by women but by men too. He spent months doing marshalling on car rallies with a friend just to keep this friends - he hated doing it but kept it up cos this male friend was giving him the outside attention he craved.
He has realised he needs IC and the bike is up for sale to pay for that. He realises he has all he needs in me and DS and that no amount of external validation can make him feel whole, that he risked his family for it. He is disgusted with himself and is really making changes in that dept. Now he craves our attention not outside attention.
He has put his own boundaries in place and has shown me already he is working on saying no to people and not putting himself in dangerous situations.
Sorry this is so long but I felt the need to explain as no one believes his story. I really think I do now though.
ETA - although he didn't want the physical stuff I have to add that he does take full responsibility for the affair and is well aware he was weak and chose to take what was offered. He knows he did it and nobody made him do it.
[This message edited by olwen at 5:04 AM, November 18th (Monday)]
just be right now. You have very well thought out reasons for believing him. I did too. For me- there were just some things that didn't click- but I didn't realize that they didn't click until I had thought about them for awhile. This whole process is crazy making- you get answers and exhaust yourself digging for details and then you just stop.... You believe him and you relax. Because you need it.
But... For me at least... Once I get the new info, it starts brewing in my head and what was okay two days ago suddenly has more blank spots and things that don't quite click, I tryto keep calm and rational and talk myself down, just so I can function- but eventually it gets to be too much and I go down the rabbit hole again. You just cannot know what direction your mind will take.
So be okay for now. For yourself. Relax and try to focus on your regular day to day. There will be more questions for you and all sorts of new and creative triggers you never knew were there (all part of the fun, right?). But it's okay to be content for a little bit.
I am not trying to be pessimistic- but for me, at this stage, enjoying the good but fully expecting more bad is simply the way I have to protect myself. I cannot be shattered again like I was over the past few days- so I have to protect myself.
I am sending you so many hugs. When you are ready, if you are ready, and only if you think you are ready- I can PM you some of the questions that I asked that opened the flood gates for him.
Because, gently :), I do not think yours is being TOTALLY honest. I'm sorry- I know that's not what you wanted to hear. But I still hear some "poor me" in there and ... EAs are different animals. The least of my worries was what they did physically. I wanted to know about the EA. and that gets very painful.
sending you hugs and support- relax for now. It's okay to take a break from it to heal and process. We have to or we'd all be insane.
He cheated, I know he did. He knows he did. We have been going over and over this for 6 months now.
I had my lies at the beginning when he denied anything physical had ever taken place. When he confessed he told me everything in great detail and his answers don't change unless I force him to.
Why does what he says have to be a lie?
Is it not possible my weak husband was just that weak and not in a mad passion?
Why does he have to have loved every second of what he did. Like he said to me last night sticking your dick somewhere cos you feel you have to cos you don't have the balls to say no and you created the mess you're in does not feel nice.
I just don't get how his story is so unbelievable knowing what his personality is. Our families and few friends that know all believed it instantly. They know what he is like and the only way he would cheat is if he got in over his head and couldn't think of a way out without her telling me.
Also I met her and know how bad she is and she told me herself she manipulates men for fun.
I just can't see that. He has never been that man and I just can't see it. He is quite shy about sex even with me let alone someone new.
1)The EA was enough, the guilt was killing him and he did try and stop it.
2)He never went back for more.
3)If he had wanted her and planned it he would have booked a room and gone all out.
4)He is not confident and is very easily led.
5) he is not a man's man. He is quite feminine in his views on things.
They say as a generalisation that women tend to cheat for the emotional side of things and men for the sexual but I believe for him the EA was what he wanted.
That's bad enough, that he wanted to share his days with another woman behind my back, that kills me so why do I also have to believe he wanted her sexually. HE wanted HER to want him but he didn't really want her.
Anyway he has asked me to leave it for now and wait til I get my timeline and letter.
I don't know maybe the letter will say everything I said in the first sentence, I doubt it though.
I do have my doubts but it's what he keeps telling me.
I just don't know what to think and what to do. His story pretty much rings true to me and he is not saying different no matter how much I question him.
I will wait til I get my letter and take it from there.
I guess I am being gullible and everyone can see the truth but me. I just want this over.
[This message edited by olwen at 5:56 AM, November 18th (Monday)]
People give advice based on their experience. You have to take the advice that works in your situatIon and leave the rest. Only you can decide what your truth is.
The truth is, only HE knows the details and thought processes that he was experiencing...and maybe those memories are clouded. If he changes his story just upon the threat of you leaving, because he doesn't know what else to do, then all that you are going to get right now is a more muddled version than you had weeks ago.
Listen to Wondertwin---just be you for right now.
Sometimes, you have to take a step back, and recollect your thoughts. As badly as you want to move forward, you need to give yourself time...to let your mind process everything.
The one thing that you can do is watch his actions. Is he in therapy? Did he actively set this up, or at your insistence? WHAT IS HE DOING?
The one thing that does stand out is the two of your memberships on this site.
As of this moment, you have 219 posts.
He has 10.
Again, what is he DOING on his own to repair this marriage?
All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day: 9/18/09 D-Day#2: 2/19/10 The Marriage Killer: 6/6/11
Heading for D
I am just going to wait for the letter and take it from there.
He has been making changes but the main thing has been working on the letter/timeline for me.
He doesn't post much cos he is working full time and isn't really one for forums. He does read though and has pointed out a few threads to me and we have talked about them,
He has put his bike up for sale to pay for ic, he wants to do it to make sure he never cheats again.
He replaced everything in the house she touched. He has done little things like texting me more often, always letting me know where he is, little gifts and jobs around the house, working hard with our son to be a better father. Coming to bed at the same time as me. Took me away for a weekend. Read how to help your spouse heal from your affair.
I am going to wait and see what happens with this letter. I don't know which story is true. THe one where he didn't want anything physical or the one where he took his chance to be with someone new.
MY head is up my backside and all I am doing right now is wasting everyones time and going round in circles. I thought I was giving an update saying I believe him and it's the first story but I just don't know.
[This message edited by olwen at 6:16 AM, November 18th (Monday)]
I hope he is being honest.
SI is full of wise, articulate, compassionate people and I literally don't see how H and I could be in R without it.
But, people give advice out of their own experience. When it comes to SI, that experience is so emotional and powerful it's hard to ignore it and open your mind to something different.
My H did not enjoy his A. He hated it. He was miserable, anxious, horrified, and disgusted by sex with OW. Yes, I believe that men can have awful sex.
Feel free to look at my history because I've posted on all the "WS says the sex was bad" threads and started my own in the beginning. I don't resent the two-by-fours. Those posters are coming out of the type of WS and the type of affair that is far more common. They are trying to warn and protect me, and I appreciate that.
But some WS's are messed up in a way that makes them very vulnerable to manipulation. It makes them feel helpless to stop something they don't want (although they are not helpless or stuck at all). This doesn't excuse them. It does mean that they need a ton of work to figure out why they are self-destructive and why they "check out" rather than assert themselves.
I would suggest the book "Who's Pulling Your Strings?". Also, is your H the child of an alcoholic? Or was he ever abused (including emotional abuse)?
I think it is a huge positive sign that your H is going to IC. I know it's near impossible, but my advice would be to be patient. Your H is messed up in complicated ways that will take a long time to unravel.
I'd also watch actions. Not texting more or helping around the house, which are *nice,* but ... window dressing. Rather, what is he doing to become safe--not just for you, but for his own wellbeing? If you are both right, he's identified some serious issues that require attention. He needs professional help, and he needs to work HARD in IC.
Otherwise, his whys remain blame shifting.
Selling his beloved motorbike was his choice, he contacted relate and made an appointment for us but we developed money problems so I said we should cancel. He decided he needed ic and he wanted rid of the bike as she had sat on it. it's up for sale now and he has dropped the price dramatically he is so keen to start getting help. This was all his doing. I am already in IC cos of my bipolar.
He has done quite a few things that have shown a huge change in his attitude. Here area just a few.
1)after that night he has not been out to the pub since and says he won't until I am ready to join him.
2)Same with his works xmas party. SHE will be there so he won't go.
3)Also he has had her moved to another office
4)He told his bosses of the affair
5)He has applied for jobs all over the country to get away from her.
6) He has been NC apart from very curt exchanges that are necessary at work. He tries to email rather than have to see her. This is very rare.
7)He was relieved when it ended, never missed her or tried to contact her.
8)The one time she texted him he showed me and ignored it
9)He passed a female neighbour at a bus stop in the rain but didn't stop and offer her a lift as it was a boundary he set himself. No women in the car without me.
10) he lets me know where he is at ALL times. Even this morning work sent him out to buy something and he let me know where he was - just nipping out to buy batteries from Argos.
11)Sometimes they finish work early on a Friday but he won't go to the pub with them. He emails me from the office so I know he is still there.
12)I have access to his phone, phone records, email accounts, even his work one.
13)he told his family about the affair, sadly they told him not to tell me but that's a WHOLE different story!
14)he has tried posting here but never really gets time cos he is working on the letter for me.
15)he told me when my female best friend hugged him.
16)he told me he was concerned when she did that, a red flag popped up instantly. I knew she was just being supportive of both of us but was sooo pleased it concerned him
17)Told me when a teenage girl flashed him when he was at some traffic lights on the bike. He saw her start to lift her top and looked away. Another reason he is selling the bike, he doesn't want to attract attention now. Says he doesn't need it.
18) he has been on two business trips since the A - the first he drove through the night so as not to be in a hotel and the second when he couldn't he took our 8 year old son with him, I loved that
19)this is a biggie, my dad died in the middle of me finding out about the affair, that added to the tt I think. anyway H did EVERYTHING, from finding dad's body to arranging the funeral to clearing the house. He was amazing.
I see all that as quite positive.
Also he has just sat me down to explain that yes he didn't want her physically but he still CHOSE to go ahead in the car, no one made him do it. He doesn't really know why just yet he wants to work through it tonight and see if he can find his reasons so he can be totally truthful.
He didn't want her sexually but for some reason he did want to take what she was offering him. A reason he is not yet sure of and wants to work through. Yes he felt trapped by his previous actions and was scared she would tell me. Yes he thought he had ruined out relationship so why not but he insists it wasn't sexual desire, he just didn't feel that way about her.
he says it's there he just can't quite unravel it and to give him time and I will get my honest answers. It may well be the usual answer that he took it cos it was offered, he was curious, he was flattered etc but he knows it was not wow I want her and it was also not his chance to be with someone new. As he said he would have gone all out to please her if it was. Not just going through the motions to give her what she wanted.
He wants to give me this reason truthfully. He keeps getting stuck there and wants to take the time to work it out.
I offered to try and help him and he refused saying that way he could just take an out I give him, he wants to do it himself.
[This message edited by olwen at 8:21 AM, November 18th (Monday)]
The bit he enjoyed was the EA although that was also tempered with guilt and disgust but he ignored it.
HE couldn't ignore it when it turned physical.
I also believe men can have awful sex. Even with me! Back when I was on meds that affected my sex drive I tried one night but he could tell I wasn't really into it and he hated it and stopped. Men may take sex where it is offered for many reasons, doesn't mean they will always enjoy it - or finish.
Also H has a history of 'checking out' when things get stressful. He just shuts down and withdraws. He did it when our son was born. After 5 years of infertility he was scared to love him when I was pg in case we lost him. Then we both nearly died when I had him and when we got home H just kind of milled around in shock for two weeks, being selfish and leaving me to do everything. all of a sudden two weeks later he 'woke up' and was the best dad ever. Even did ALL the night feeds!
[This message edited by olwen at 8:09 AM, November 18th (Monday)]
I have really struggled with the EA too. It was the first thing I found out about in April. I was devastated.
The thing for me is I can understand how easily a friendship can turn into more, I don't know why, I just can.
It was the lies and betrayal that hurt most there, the fact he turned away from me.
I have always struggled more with the sexual side, maybe I am more like a man there. I have severe body issues, possible body dysmorphia and just the thought of him kissing her, touching her, pushes me to breaking point.
If he did fancy her so be it, I will find a way to cope but I don't see why he would keep insisting he didn't when the worst bit for me is known - he kissed her, touched her and had sex. Nothing is worse than that for me.
H is answering and explaining the best he can. He just needs to work out the bit that led him to decide to take her up on her offer.
I've mainly skimmed your posts - sorry, have a toddler and can't read everything - BUT I like that you are very detailed! I like long posts as they really explain stuff, especially if they are well written.
Your WS made bad choices. Isn't that why we are all here?
Hopefully the letter will help you more.
Sometimes (I believe most - but mods hate generalities - sorry mods) men just do stuff sexually even when they don't particularly want to. But that doesn't mean your WS didn't really want to. He put himself there. So why? Obvious boundary issues - as all WS's have. But also, I think, that WS who put themselves in situation with work personnel become so much more attached to work people or friends because they are around them so much. You start caring for people and getting involved in their lives and then before you want to admit it - you get in these awful situations. It used to happen to me all the time. I've always worked with a lot of men. They'd tell me all their problems and I'd listen and try to help them and enjoy our friendship and then all of a sudden they felt they could start being closer with me. Then I'm like - how did they get the wrong idea????
How? Because I made them feel too comfortable - I know that, then I'd blame myself. But the truth is much more than that. I wanted to help = they needed attention/help/friendship/counseling..I'm a good listener and friend. But when you allow yourself to be all that - lonely people or other people with poor boundaries or self esteem issues start feeling sexual or attraction or need to touch or whatever...It really puts the person just trying to be nice is an awful situation - just terrible. You realize you didn't understand where things were going and now you have to either let them down gently or let them down not so gently or do something with that person... And it's worse if you are attractive or sexy...then so many people want some part of you..... So it's good your WS is getting rid of the bike. He should also keep all work situations and all females at extreme distance...it's the only way. Ok? I am/was attractive (older now) and it took me years to see that I CANNOT be friends with men. I am/was too attractive. They get the wrong idea. If I'm nice - they want me in a certain way. If I listen, they start thinking I'm interested...it goes on and on. Men and women, especially if they are attractive...you know, it's very difficult if not impossible to be friends. I fought this knowledge for years and then I finally submitted. I cannot be friends with men because they find it too tempting to be friends with me. Also, I was NEVER in an emotional affair. I was just there - listening. Little did I know - that with the opposite sex - it's rarely just listening to the person needing to be listened to. It's sounds obvious now that I'm writing it and I've been so horribly cheated on, but when you are a nice person and a people person - you just want to be there for people and get to know your co-workers/customers better. It's part of being human - it is...but then everyone is different and they think different things and have different agendas or they are lonely or whatever...
Now, with me, it's not that way. I can be friends with the most gorgeous or not so gorgeous man and just be friends. Why? Because it is wrong to cheat because I am in a committed relationship. And I would never do anything to jeopardize my relationship. AND I would NEVER want to devastate my husband. It was a no brainer for me. Temptation wasn't in the equation - I was happy with my relationship, even with ups or downs, I was glad to be in a committed relationship and respected my partner and never thought of cheating.
Unfortunately, my fucktard cheater husband took advantage of that and did whatever sexually he wanted for over 25 years.....
Awful, I know. But this really isn't about my husband. What I wanted to try and show you is that it could be that your WS is telling most of the truth. Maybe even all of it. I hope you get some closure on what you need to know.
Now what is really important is that he does and understands what I do and know. If you are attractive to a co-worker or friend or stranger - they may or will - come on to you or do something inappropriate whether or not you are attached. So unfortunately for your spouse - he must detach from most women in general from now on. He can be courteous and help them if they are in need but he really cannot open himself up or be intimate because there are so many needy people out there that are lonely or have no boundaries and he really doesn't know that until they try something.
So your husband, for the rest of your marriage, has to treat women as if they are not really friends of the marriage. He has to be nice and respectful and help them in need or if they are in danger or work with them - BUT NO INTIMACY. NO DISCUSSIONS OF PERSONAL PROBLEMS - EVER. Work related only. He has to think of ways to keep women from trying to entice him into personal discussions in a very nice and respectful way. Soon it will be second nature. He will be the very best worker and will come running home - to his mate - his best friend - his woman - his only woman/wife and to HIS family who he never wants to put into jeopardy again because he wanted to get to know or help or be friends another person. He can - he just has to make sure the person is a MAN.
[This message edited by mychild at 9:10 AM, November 18th (Monday)]
Was he in a mad passionate haze, not necessarily, but chances are he did want sex for one reason or another.
That's exactly how the EA started. He felt he couldn't talk to me about our problems but this nice young girl was a good listener...... sadly she told him he could do better and then went on to show him how great and happy her life was and how he should have the same blah blah.
He has NEVER worked with a woman before, let alone a maneater like her who has about 7 men on the go at a time!
I also worked 13 years in a large office and found men getting too close to me, sharing their troubles, paying compliments etc. I have probably come close to an EA myself not knowing what they were! Thinking I was just being nice Neither of us had ever heard the term EA til I tried to show him how far over the line he had gone and looked up text affairs on line and discovered the term EA.
Of course his was different. It involved lying to me that she wasn't working directly with him, they were texting round the clock etc.. It went Waaaaay too far. The text records show gaps of days at a time when it slowed right down or stopped. These were the times he tried to stop ot but she kept insisting they were 'just friends' so he felt stupid asking her to stop. No boundaries and being useless at saying no got him into this whole mess.
He now has a wall firmly in place between him and other women. I have seen evidence of it in not giving our female neighbour a life and telling me when my friend hugged him. All a good start.
[This message edited by olwen at 9:08 AM, November 18th (Monday)]
I think affairs can be VERY complex. Getting caught up in something then realising it's spiralling out of control.
I am sure it can be simple, see someone, fancy them, want to get in their pants and doing so with a smile on your face and no thought for your bs but I really don't think that fits my H.
He struggled, he lost weight, wasn't sleeping, became ill. He tried stopping it but she convinced him they were doing nothing wrong, that he needed someone to talk to and she was there all day every day and texting him round the clock.
It's not as simple as he saw it, he wanted it, he took it. otherwise I am sure he would have done it again and again not hated the sight of both her and himself afterwards.
yes he did choose to take what she offered, maybe he couldn't resist the temptation when it was laid out like that. maybe he wanted to know what it would be like with someone new. I won't know til he knows. My theory is it had a lot more to do with her wanting him and making him feel wanted than it did about him wanting her sexually.
We sit here and make judgments and suggestions based on words on a screen. We are not there to his facial expressions or body language. We are not there to hear the tone and inflection in his voice. You alone are the judge and jury. We are more like the prosecuting attorney, asking questions and creating doubt.
Watch the work. If he is minimizing the story it would be to make the A not seem so bad in your eyes and his own. If he truly accepts how destructive his thoughts and behaviors were and actively works to change them, then it doesn't seem like minimizing to me. You have shown quite a few examples of how he is owning the situation.
His story mimics my fWS. The attention is what she craved. There were 2 LTA that didn't physical because they didn't need to. Both sides were ok with that. There were 2 shorter PAs because that was the progression of the attention. During the last PA there were months of large amounts of text messages. That attention is what she wanted. On the time line and phone bills I can see that as the frequency of the texts went down the physical stuff started. She was selling herself physically to continue to get the cheap emotional validation. Sure there was excitement in the physical but it wasn't the goal it was the cost. During the PAs her self hatred and anxiety skyrocketed. During both she started starving herself to the point of skin and bones and she also started cutting herself. Truth or not, this is my understanding, and I can live with it.
Her goal is to find why she needed the validation to begin with. Why she was willing to abandon herself for it. How she can seek healthy validation from herself. And how to build boundaries against unhealthy validation.
You know, my WS TTd me for months. He said he had sex with her once, and then ended things. For various reasons, I just knew that wasn't the truth. I knew he was still lying to me, and it was driving us both crazy. I would ask for the truth, and he would say he'd given it to me, and I just KNEW he was still withholding.
The day that he finally broke down and told me everything, I knew in an instant that he had told me everything. I can't explain it well, but it was like for months I had been living with a different version of my WS and the minute he told me the truth it was like he was the same man again.
What I am saying is, you know your WS best olwen. If you really sit with the letter he gives you, and it gives you peace and you believe him, and you know in your heart - then it is okay to have faith in your own judgement.
I mean what internal work is he doing? What is he doing, in IC? What is he doing to explore the brokenness you've both accepted as the reason behind his vulnerability to this affair?
It's not enough to find the why. He needs to repair it. If he does not, he will remain vulnerable. Trust me on this---you WILL have another d-day unless he does the hard, hard work.
He is dying to get into IC, he wants to get to the root of it. I am pretty sure we already have a lot of it though. We talk every day and he has posted about it in wayward. He is looking at his past, his relationships with his family and previous women.
He was cheated on in his first relationship and he was deprived of ANY affection from his family. They are manipulative and cruel.
His main focus for now is setting up boundaries. we discussed them but as my list shows he has added his own too.
He has looked at how he fell into the affair, how he avoids conflict etc. He has seen how he doesn't share his emotions with me, he never has cos at home they were ignored.
He can only do so much alone, but when the bike sells he will do IC.
For now he has set his boundaries, is working to give me all the answers I need, is working on being a better husband and father. Learning more about when he feels he can't say no and speaking up more and more. He is telling me his troubles and letting me in on his emotions.
For me the key thing is he is never really away from me. He loves nothing more now than being home with his family and everything else including work is just a way to give us a better life. We are his priority now.
The other big thing is he talks! My God does he talk. I have gone from having Neanderthal man grunts for 18years to real heart to hearts every single day. HE even comes home on his lunch and we talk some more. He holds nothing back now.
I hope this was the kind of stuff you meant? He also read how to help your spouse heal from your affair and will be posting much more when he has done the letter for me.
Sorry for this but I said to him this morning I don't know if I can carry on using SI as they just don't believe you at all and I know at least 90% of what you have told me is true. He surprised me by saying even it they don't believe I won't stop coming on and I don't want you to because it really helps.
That has to be good.
His actions, demeanour, and heartbreak are clear to see. He breaks down every day over some part of what he has done.
He looks right into my eyes and I can see the shame and self hatred clearly. HE is repulsed by his actions and wants to move heaven and earth to fix things.
I am realising through all this writing just how much I do believe what he has told me so far. I have sat with that story for 6 months now and although I have had my doubts it's what we both keep coming back to.
I have to remember I have known him for 18years. I know the scraped he gets into like buying a flatscreen tv from two cowboys in a supermarket carpark - guess what happened there lol. £200 gone in a puff of smoke.
He is very trusting and naïve and so desperate to be loved and wanted he will do things he doesn't want to to get that validation.
Namely he cannot say no to anybody. He gets walked all over at work, he will not say no or tackle the boss for overworking him, or even being rude or aggressive to him. He hates to even ask for his annual leave in case the boss grumbles. He HATES anyone being cross with him, cold with him - any form of rejection at all. if a neighbour needs help in the middle of his meal, he will leave it and go help - not say wait 20 mins he will just flat out leave his meal. He has always been this way. He won't stand up to his nightmare of a mother,
Why does what he says have to be a lie? Is it not possible my weak husband was just that weak and not in a mad passion? Why does he have to have loved every second of what he did.
Remember this last week after he confessed the truth?
And yet you wonder why I don't believe a word you say. How could you do this to me? ~ it's not been a good day. Not eaten again and took my temper out on my kitchen door so have a very battered hand right now. Made me feel better though. I was so worried it might upset or trigger someone but I had to get it out somewhere safe with people I know will understand. I kept texting h my angry thoughts
Have you made yourself safe for him to tell you the truth??
What you describe is how I felt when it was 'just' an EA. I knew there was more even though he swore up hill and down dale there wasn't. I could see it in his eyes.
He was distant, snappy, arrogant, insulting. A monster in fact. I didn't know who this evil man was. The reason - he was hiding the PA.
The day he told me of the PA it all came pouring out. He told me every detail. How did he masturbate her, how long over her knickers, how long inside - I won't go on but incredibly graphic questions were answered equally graphically.
he hated it but gave me what I needed.
I have doubted his story but those parts are coming out now. Eg why did he sit in that car park with an inkling she may make a move if he didn't want sex - because he wanted to know she wanted him, he was too caught up in wanting that to think how he would refuse her though. He really wasn't thinking rationally. I hate to say it but he is not the world's greatest thinker. HE reacts, doesn't plan, goes with the flow - then gets caught on the hop.
The more I think about it the more it all makes sense. If I stop fighting it and telling myself he MUST have wanted it He MUST have fancied her. If I listen to him it does click. It's stupid but believe me he has got into trouble in the past for not thinking - many many times.
It's believable to me because I know him. I need to remember this.
I will see what his letter says, as you suggest, and see if it does make the last things click into place.
I came to that conclusion myself in another thread,
One thing I have realised but he never said is that I have not made it easy for him to be honest with me over the years. I am NOT blaming myself. He did not mention it. However I realised today that he seems to want to always tell me what I want to hear. I don't make it easy for him to tell me stuff. I tried to kill myself ffs! How could he feel able to tell me more? My therapist wants me to learn how to manage my extreme emotion and I think I must!
Just an observation I have made about myself. So I am trying to listen to him and not freak out.
Just an observation I have made about myself. So I am trying to listen to him and not freak out.
He says this is why he changed his story to wanting her, cos it's what everyone on here said it MUST have been so I wouldn't listen when he tried to tell me the truth was that he didn't want her.
I am trying to work on that, it's hard.
He says the truth is what he has told me about not wanting it but that he changed it after I insisted he must be lying cos no one on here believed him. he didn't feel able to stick to the truth when I was adamant he was lying cos of what I read on here.
What makes you think what he told me last week was the truth and not the original story? I was just as devastated by his original story and he never changed that until I threatened to leave him. I think it's more likely the first story is correct and the second was to stop me leaving.
I guess I am just too confusable and easily led myself!
I am going to see what his letter says and make my own mind up.
[This message edited by olwen at 10:11 AM, November 18th (Monday)]
Now to the facts, disgusting as they are. It's what he said a few weeks ago and took back cos he didn't want to believe it. He DID fancy her, not enough that he would have been with her if he was single but for an affair she was perfect. Not interested in commitment just a bit of 'easy fun'. She was attractive enough to want to have sex with though. He DID want to have sex with her. I know a lot of you won't believe all of this but I really do. Basically he wanted whatever she offered. He resented me for my illness and the break down of our relationship
But can you clarify what "moving forward" looks like in your own mind?
"He BOTH fancied her AND loved me and our son, so now we can focus on strong boundaries and an equitable marriage."
Can your bipolar mind make peace with BOTH/AND? Can you accept BOTH/AND? Or will you remain stuck in Either/Or?
Can your bipolar mind make peace with BOTH/AND? Can you accept BOTH/AND? Or will you remain stuck in Either/Or?
Yes I am bipolar, yes I am open about it - no I don't deserve to be mocked because of it!
I am not handling this well. It is not easy to handle infidelity when you are well. It is not easy to handle it when you have a mental illness and are trying to make sense of a changing story!
Why do you only believe the 'he fancied her' version?
Is it not more likely that the 'he didn't fancy her' story is true as it is the one he gave me off his own back from the beginning. I believed it but when I came here with my doubts I was told he was lying.
I took this to heart and tackled it head on. He panicked and said whatever he thought he should to make me stay even if that meant lying to agree with the majority on here.
I am sorry I have doubts, I am sorry my opinions and thoughts are changeable, I am sorry one day I am confident and wanting to move on and the next in pieces and trying to hang on. Sorry if I am not following how you think I should deal with this!
This stuck out to me. I know it must be tough to admit something like this. I just can't imagine someone changing their story ONLY because you threaten to leave. If someone is not guilty of committing a murder, I'm sorry but I'm not going to change the story because you threaten to leave.
Olwen: "I have always struggled more with the sexual side, maybe I am more like a man there. I have severe body issues, possible body dysmorphia and just the thought of him kissing her, touching her, pushes me to breaking point."
If there is more to the story or if he actually felt different and admitted that he took it because it was offered etc...
And if he truly knows how you feel about your sexual side, if he understands about your body dysmorphia. He may well be terrified. If he is remorseful as you said, he just may not want to push you over the edge. Husbands are theMr Fix It All, sometimes they don't give full disclosure because they don't want to hurt you more. It's a cop out , excuse etc. He may completely feel he's doing this for your own good even though you clearly can't move forward because some things just don't make sense or 100% believable. Please be prepared for more trickle truth or for the same story. Either way you may not be satisfied and there might be more questions. I have body issues myself. Sometimes what I see in the mirror is not reality. I know this and I make a huge effort to see the real me. I often get bigger clothes thinking it will be a little tight only to try it on and it's 2-3 inches loose in the waist! My daughters always tell me their guy friends think I'm a milf, some have flirted with me! I don't know where that issue comes from. My mom is one reason. I have compared myself to MOW physically many times. The truth is this has NOTHING to do with me. It's on him for doing what he did.
I can understand how it can be SOOO difficult to believe that
And accept it. I got to hear more details than I should have. I thought getting as much detail about how he felt, what he thought, what he wanted to do, what he thought when he saw her etc.... Would help me understand, cope and move forward.
I feel that most betrayed spouses will never get 100% of the story. One important thing is what your WS is doing now, his actions. My H has done so much in actions. You are beautiful. Some of the world's beautiful woman don't believe they are.
The gift of R is the most meaningful gift I have ever given my husband. No other gift can compare. The journey is a lot of work, a rollercoaster of emotions. Some days you see sunshine and 2 days later you feel like digging a hole, jumping in and never coming out. Days that you are happy and days that anger consumes you. I thought I had completely lost my mind at one point. Thank God for SI. I was able to read so many stories. I was able to see I'm not alone, I'm not crazy, what I feel and how I feel is normal... In the long run I will be ok. I know this will never leave you.
One day it's not going to ruin my day, week... It's a part of who I am but not who I am soley. I'm not how I was the first month after dday. I'm not where I want to be but I know I am and will get there. I just don't have the date and time of arrival. It's like our house.
It's so much nicer after all the improvements we've done in 10 yrs, but we are never finished improving.
2Beautiful daughters
DD 6/26/10 (he broke down & confessed)
DD#2 3/14/11 H in OW's car
TT 7/1/11 (NC broken, through emails)
In R
Not if you feel it in your gut.
Not if every wise poster on SI agrees.
It sounds like you have (for now - until something makes you think otherwise) decided to believe him.
So, I say get on with the healing. Carefully proceed. Let him know that you are going way out on a limb to trust this story, but that you are willing to proceed if there is IC, and if there is no TT later that disproves his "story".
(Or whatever your conditions are).
It is a hard truth to have to accept that we will never know 100% whether or not we have the real story.
[This message edited by WhatsRight at 10:44 AM, November 18th (Monday)]
I will not be vanquished. Rose Kennedy
If my H would just admit that he wanted her, I wouldn't get people on SI saying he was lying and I was rugsweeping. SI posters would stop insinuating that I was being deliberately dense and that H was manipulating me.
But H has told me the same story 1,000 times. Now he tells it calmly and patiently and with the insight of 10 months of IC. No flirting, no desire, no romance, no sexual high, no satisfaction. He didn't fancy her--he pitied her, feared her telling his boss or telling me, he thought she was his friend, he felt compelled to rescue her--but he did not desire her.
When I say "you must have wanted it" he says, "I can't tell you that because it's not true." I see how your H could have caved and told you what you wanted/needed to hear.
I recommend:
1. Stop discussing this on SI because most people here have a WS who is messed up in a different way and will not understand.
2. After your H has been in IC for a few weeks, go with him and get his IC's perspective. (Or ask H to give IC permission to meet with you alone.)
What matters is that your H tells you the truth, owns his shit and fixes his damage. People whose WS is an NPD, serial cheater, SA, CL, AM, or just felt entitled to hot sex on the side, may not get where we're coming from.
Be patient. Turn toward your WH.
Edited because my post sounded like my H is somehow "better" than WS's who dig the sex. He's not better, just messed up in a different way.
[This message edited by sailorgirl at 8:17 AM, November 19th (Tuesday)]
Gently here a person doesnt lie and make the story worse because someone threatens to leave. And him having the same story all this time? That means nothing. It might be true, it might not, but a liar isnt going to just change his story for no reason. Once the story is created, its created.
As far as him wanting it or not, I dont know how he would have had sex if he didnt want it. If a male truly does not want to have sex with a person, and is thinking that when the act is happening, then certain body parts dont work which makes sex impossible. He wanted it, on some level, or it wouldnt have happened, period.
Im really perplexed why it matters so much. Is him having sex with someone to make them happy any better than him having sex to make himself happy? In the end, he still had sex with someone else, and it wasnt rape.
Im sorry but he finally admitted something to you and you went off the deep end. You told us you were leaving him. You stopped eating. You punched doors. You became very angry and bombarded him with nasty angry texts. I think its pretty clear to see why he would go back to the first story.
Im just not seeing why his thoughts matter so much. If my H had sex with someone because they expected him to, Id be very angry. I would wonder why her wants beat my wants, and what will he do the next time someone wants him? Thats a weakness that I couldnt bear.
Just a few thoughts not saying Im write ☺
I have spoken to him again and he is adamant he didn't fancy or want her. he is still working on his letter to me but that much he knows. I asked if he was too scared to tell me the truth and he said he was more scared if he didn't tell me what everyone on here said was true that I would leave him.
You have some very wise words. I know I will never know 100% but this story sits a good 90-95% trued with me. I know he sounds gullible and naïve but he really is.
What's right - you hit the nail on the head. When I get this letter, whatever it says, it's time to move on. Start rebuilding our marriage with this new husband who is already vastly improved, despite what he has done he has since shown me glimpses of the man he can be. Once we have the story written down we can address it and make the focus us again.
I see however in all of your writings, or maybe I have missed it, but what if you find out now or down the road that he has not been truthful? What are your consequences? And can you actually follow thru?
Many times a BS is swirling around their WS and desparately trying to get answers and trying to fix things but they have no plan for if you find out your WS has been still lying.
Your strength will come when you can find a balance between wanting your marriage but not settling for being made a fool of...not letting it define who you are if you find out down the road that it has all been a lie, I hope you can find that balance.
I think being on here has done my marriage more harm than good.
I knew deep down he was telling the truth but wanted someone to tell me it was possible, I should not have needed that, I know my H. I listened to the nay sayers and as a result nearly walked out on my marriage cos H wouldn't admit to what they said was true. Then when he did so as not to lose me suddenly everyone believed him but I just got more confused cos I could tell when I questioned him it was not the truth
I have decided to leave SI.
Thanks to all who have been open minded and supported me.
[This message edited by olwen at 8:37 AM, November 19th (Tuesday)]
The things you said that describe his personality, they describe the personality of numerous waywards. He is no different to any other wayward partner and their issues that help them along the way in their affairs.
A lot of waywards find themselves drawn into affairs that were not planned, a lot didn't think anything would happen but wanted to see if it could and when it does they go along with it. Everyone that goes a long with it is a cheater regardless of WHY they went along with it.
If he didn't want or fancy her he would never have been drawn into an EA with her in the first place imo. I also find it hard to believe he could physically perform if he didn't actually want her.
I think that maybe you are trying to justify things to yourself because what you want to believe (that he didn't really want too but was 'forced' too) somehow makes it not as bad. The bottom line is it actually makes very little difference, he did it, he is a cheater like any other.
You do what you feel you need to do. If you feel you need to believe him,that's ok.
I DO think it's positive that he told you he wanted you to continue to read and post here. It DOES bother me that he is PMing people instead of posting..unless,of course,you have transparency from him and you have access to his PM's here? You said you were upset that he didn't come back and answer any of the questions on his thread..and you wanted him to answer them because they were important questions..but he didn't. And now he is PMing people here and getting advice..which is all well and good..but I think part of you was hoping,like many BS's, that you would have some insight into his thoughts..and you were hoping to try to understand him a little more,based on his posts here on SI..right? The FWS's here on SI cut through the crap..through the excuses..and push new WS's to dig deep. And we, their BS's, want to see how they(our WS) responds to those hard questions. So I understand why you're unhappy that he is PMing instead of posting. Maybe you could make posting a requirement of R?
I agree with the above..if he didn't fancy her..he wouldn't have been drawn into an EA..or the resulting PA.
Olwen...if the truth is that he liked her..or thought at the time he liked her..that he wanted to kiss her because he liked her..that he wanted to touch her *there* because he wanted to touch her there..that he had sex with her because he wanted to have sex with her....then what? If he tells you that he did it all because he liked her and he wanted to..then what?
I think you need to take a break from worrying about him so much. Let him take care of his issues. Let him do his own digging. You need to take care of you. You need to start healing. What have you done for yourself today? Are you taking care of yourself? Are you doing things that make you happy? When was the last time you met a friend for lunch?
You are very focused on him. Stop. Turn that focus on YOU. YOU need to heal. It's a long,painful journey,from dday to a place of peace. Isn't it time you started loving yourself again?
[This message edited by confused615 at 2:30 PM, November 18th (Monday)]
..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.
Other questions include:
1) Do you believe him? If this is the truth, it's pretty odd, but that doesn't make in untrue. You ask SI if we believe him, and we say either a) no, or b) it's very difficult to believe him - but we know less than you do.
It's your life, and you have to take your own risks. At some point everyone in chooses to believe his WS, even though we know we've been lied to terribly by the person we now choose to believe. That doesn't make sense - but we do it, and I think it works out decently more often than not.
2) Why not do a polygraph? It sounds like your big question is whether he's told the truth, and that's a yes/no question eminently suitable for a poly. It could do the trick for you.
The bottom line is it actually makes very little difference, he did it, he is a cheater like any other.
For me, the bottom line is: My husband says the cheating sex was bad. Either he is lying to me, or he is telling the truth. Whether I'm getting lies or the truth makes a huge difference. I can not R with a man who is lying to me.
Honey,I see you desperately trying to believe him. You have talked yourself into it. I get it. Most of us here do.
You do what you feel you need to do. If you feel you need to believe him,that's ok.
This was written to Olwen, not me, and I'm sure it was written out of caring. It sounded patronizing to me, though, and I wanted to respond in case someone else reading this thread has a WS like mine.
I actually did not want to believe that my H masturbated to get hard and continued to masturbate during sex so that he could stay hard. I did not want to believe that he disassociated from the situation so that he could have mechanical sex with a pitiful woman who he did not find attractive in any way. What kind of messed-up do you have to be to do that? A kind that I knew nothing about and didn't want to touch with a ten foot pole. A kind that can result from child abuse, sexual abuse, or neglect. A self-destructive compulsion combined with a confirmation
of worthlessness that scrambles rational thought and is quite frankly disturbing.
Messed-up people do messed up shit.
As far as him wanting it or not, I dont know how he would have had sex if he didnt want it. If a male truly does not want to have sex with a person, and is thinking that when the act is happening, then certain body parts dont work which makes sex impossible. He wanted it, on some level, or it wouldnt have happened, period.
Im really perplexed why it matters so much.
Im really perplexed why it matters so much.
It matters so much because the truth matters. My H "wanted it on some level" but it was not a sexual level. OW was not arousing to him. I'm not going to go into the whole background, but women have sex when they don't feel desire, what makes people think men are so different?
then certain body parts dont work which makes sex impossible.
Actually, people can emotionally feel horrible and still have the signs of physical arousal. Something that is terribly confusing for the survivors of sexual abuse is that they did not want what was happening, did not feel desire, and yet their body responded by getting physically aroused. Please try to imagine what kind of mind-fuck that would be before you say that it is "impossible" for men to be hard unless they "want" to have sex.
I think it would help if you determined what you need him to do in order to restore some of your faith in him. If he can do that, go for a full reconciliation. I don't mean to sound crass, but if it fails, divorce is still possible then.
Yes, it means making yourself vulnerable. But I do get the feeling that you would like to reconcile. The gamble might be worth it.
Of course he should be told that if he's not come clean, it means the end of the marriage.
People here say all the time that so many waywards are "broken." Well, here is a man admitting to being broken and even taking it a step further and explaining how he is broken. That seems like a good start to me.
Watch him now and let him take the reins. If he is being honest, you will be able to tell that, probably right quick.
Good luck to you both. See if he follows up on that IC.
Feel a bit embarrassed I said I was going to leave SI yesterday in my last post.
I was hurt by the comment someone made about my 'bipolar mind' accepting things and I felt I was being made to feel stupid for believing H.
I am not going to let that one personal comment stop me posting here or let people's differing views stop me posting. I have got too much help from SI and I know it comes from a well meaning place and people are speaking from their own experiences.
Thank you to all the people who spoke up to say his story is possible, it really helped.
We talked last night and I really feel I know what I am dealing with now.
I think I am going to pop back over to reconciliation and work on rebuilding our marriage now.
Once my husband finally knew the truth, 4 1/2 years ago, he kept waiting for the other shoe to drop. Understandably: my story went from 'one kiss' to 'oral sex' - why wouldn't it progress to full sex? Of course he doubted. And it was afwul, even for me, from the outside. I wanted to stop the doubts, just so he could start processing, healing, feeling better. I can remember the urge I felt to tell him that I did have full sex, it was a very compelling thought, but I didn't do it. Looking at it now, I see that it wasn't a 'noble' truth, it was still selfish: I'd rather have my husband doubt me than leave me, and at least with the truth I still had a chance of him staying in the marriage. He's still here. He's not waiting for that particular shoe anymore, though he probably wouldn't be too surprised if some other shoe dropped out of nowhere .
So, yes, I can imagine someone telling a 'worse' lie rather than the 'lesser' truth. Thing is, he does need to look at that as well. It may tie into the conflict avoidance/need to please/external validation that helped fuel the affair, but he needs to figure that out for himself. If he keeps telling 'any old story' just to conform to some external standard, you will not be exempt from that, and you will not feel (or be) safe. I hope he can go to a good IC soon, that would probably help a lot.
Good luck in Reconciliation.
Sailorgirl...Im sorry you misunderstood. As you said,it was written from a place of caring, as are all of my posts here.
Did I want to believe MY HUSBAND sucked some OM's dick? Um..not even a little bit. But he did. A few months after dday,as my shock wore off, I was literally staring at myself in the mirror several times a day saying out loud," he did this...he REALLY did this."
So..I completely get not wanting to believe what our WS's really did. Im well aware that fucked up people do fucked up things. If you know my story, then you know I live with a man who did some pretty horrific things. And has worked very hard to be a different,better man.
I didn't mean to sound in any way patronizing.
-end t/j
Good morning olwen. Im glad you are feeling better. What are you going to do for yourself today?
Left too late - that was very helpful thank you. I can't believe I didn't recognise his conflict avoidance in the way his story kept changing. I think you're quite right and I will bring it up with him today as an example, thanks for pointing it out.
I am getting it now and that's what matters. He was working on it til late last night.
Thanks for answering, and I absolutely know you were coming from a place of helpfulness and understanding of betrayal.
I think my post was unclear. I didn't just mean that I didn't want to believe my that my H had an affair--of course I didn't, but I accepted it. I meant that I did not want to believe that the sexual contact was bad. I did not want to believe that he was messed up enough to have sex when he wasn't turned-on. To compulsively arouse himself physically even though he genuinely did not want to have sex.
It's not a relief to know that the sex was awful. It's not what I desperately want to believe. It's actually very disturbing and really sad that my sweet man would do something so gross, destructive, detached, and full of self-hatred.
It's very hard to accept, and it goes along with accepting that my H was damaged to the core by child abuse of all kinds.
edited to add: I'm not saying that I think this is exactly what happened with your, H, Olwen. Just that it is complicated. And it is possible for men to be aroused physically, but not emotionally or mentally. It is possible for sex to feel bad.
[This message edited by sailorgirl at 7:15 AM, November 19th (Tuesday)]
I still have days when I want it to be as simple as "He was hot for her, she was hot for him, so they had hot sex." But all three of those things are false.
I am also glad you have chosen to discard the personal statement that was made, and stay on SI. Remember that for all the collective wisdom and experience on SI, your own personal journey is just that. Yours. Personal. You know what advice feels right; choose that to take away.
Thanks, sailorgirl, for addressing that statement about body parts working. You did it with a lot of tact.
If your need to know whether he's telling the truth is so strong, a polygraph could set your mind at rest. If that's what it takes, find the $$$ and do it.
But......if the polygraph says he lied, what will be your next move?
"I could have missed the pain, but I would have had to miss the dance." Garth Brooks
[This message edited by olwen at 8:40 AM, November 19th (Tuesday)]
I decided against a polygraph early on, 1) we can't afford it 2) they are not completely accurate.
Now - I feel I have enough of the truth to move on.
If it turned out he was madly in love or lust or whatever I have decided I would still stay after seeing the changes in him. It would be harder for me but yes I would stay so I am going to focus on that now.


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South Carolina Extends Its Global Reach
The Palmetto State's Department of Commerce is casting lines into international waters in an attempt to reel in foreign traders. ...Read more ›
The Palmetto State's Department of Commerce is casting lines into international waters in an attempt to reel in foreign traders. ...Read more ›
With a bevy of financial incentives, acres of available land, and an assortment of creative thinkers, California is home to one of the largest state economies in the nation. Lucrative business deals await, and it's not too late to take part in this modern-day gold rush. ...Read more ›
The biotechnology and pharmaceuticals sectors have become engines for economic development across the country. ...Read more ›
Spokane: An Unspoken Success Story of the West Located on the eastern side of Washington state, 18 miles west of Idaho and 100 miles south of Canada, the Spokane region is home to 1.4 million people in the Inland Northwest. Since 2005, the Spokane region's labor force has doubled the national average's pace, adding more than 21,000 jobs since 2002. Spokane's workforce is comprised of more than 90% college g ...Read more ›
A Location With Everything Going For It Uniquely situated along 1-74 between Indianapolis and Cincinnati, Greensburg/Decatur County has proven itself to be a great place to live, work and prosper. Area residents enjoy multiple golf courses, a state-of-the-art youth sports complex, first-class medical care, and dozens of community gatherings, events and festivals. Greensburg/Decatur County is a strong site s ...Read more ›
Toyoda Gosei Set to Build in Batesville In March, Toyoda Gosei North American Group announced plans to build a new automotive parts manufacturing plant in Batesville, MS. The facility will develop and produce interior and exterior plastic automotive components for Toyota Motor Manufacturing Mississippi, Inc. Toyoda Gosei will invest approximately $19 million into the new 103,300-square-foot plant, lo ...Read more ›
First Major U.S. Coal-to-Liquids Plant to be Built in Benwood The nation's first modern coal-to-liquids plant will be built in the Marshall County Industrial Park in Benwood, WV. Consol Energy Inc. and Synthesis Energy Systems Inc. (SES) intend to jointly develop their first U.S. coal gasification and liquefaction plant in an $800-million investment. Consol and SES have formed Northern Appalachia Fue ...Read more ›
Chattanooga Gets a $1-Billion Windfall from Volkswagon Tennessee scored its largest economic development coup in more than a decade when Volkswagon Group of America announced in July that it will build its new U.S. automotive production facility in Chattanooga. The Chattanooga plant marks a return to U.S. production for VW, which closed its last North American plant in Pennsylvania in 1988. The Germa ...Read more ›
When a project gets put on the shelf, key players shouldn't put themselves on hold. They should be ready to leverage the situation to their advantage. ...Read more ›
P.S. Reilly is the president and CEO of the Athena Institute, a Washington-based consulting firm for organizations seeking clean and sustainable solutions. BF: What initial factors should a community consider before embarking on a waterfront revitalization? PR: Waterfront was an overlooked asset for decades-no more. But community waterfront revitalization can imply a significant commitment of time and resou ...Read more ›
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Snob Theater: The Short Concert Film is a small dose of the atmosphere that was the monthly comedy variety show Snob Theater that ran for 2 years in San Francisco. The film stars Coree Spencer, Chris Thayer, Shanti Charan, Steven Pearl, Drennon Davis, Rick Overton, Debbie Neigher, and Laura and Anton of Foxtails Brigade. It's produced and hosted by Shawn Robbins, and directed by Scott Oller.
Snob Theater started as a small monthly variety show at The Dark Room Theater in San Francisco's gritty and historic Mission District. It blossomed into a critically acclaimed series and a unique outlet for the best comedians and musicians to pass through SF and perform smart and interesting material.
About Snob Theater
Snob Theater has been featured in SF Sketchfest, Noise Pop Music Festival, Bridgetown Comedy Festival, and Yelp.com's Yelpin' La Vida Local. Also featured in SF Guardian, SF Weekly, 7x7, SF Station, Scoutmob, The Portland Mercury, Laugh Spin, RE: Comedy Magazine, The Bay Bridged, The Deli SF, Future Sounds, and Broke-Ass Stuart's Goddamn Website.
$1 off drink tickets will be provided for anyone willing to visit the nearby bars.
Doors open at 9:30pm
Show starts at 10pm
The Dark Room is your one-stop shop for comedy, theater, events, entertainment, rehearsal space and recording studio facilities (both pre- and post-production).
2263 Mission Street, between 18th and 19th San Francisco, CA 94110 Call 415-401-7987 for info.
email: katarokkarblog (at) gmail (dot) com
poster designs by Chris Thornley
press -
"When I reluctantly performed on it a few months ago, I quickly realized the "Snobs" know what they're doing. I don't know how they know, but the show --- and the flow of show between musicians and comedians -- is Tony the Tiger quality grrrrrrrrrrrreat! It doesn't really matter who's on the show, it's just a cool mix. The whole is greater than the sum of it's blah blah blah. You get it. It's like Voltron."
- W. Kamau Bell, SF Weekly + The W. Kamau Bell Curve
"The Snob Theater showcase at The Hawthorne Theater (at Bridgetown Comedy Festival 2011 in Portland, OR) was pretty solid gold." - Alison Hallett, Portland Mercury
"Since the series started earlier this year, Snob Theater has featured darlings of the local music scene alongside equally feted local comedians."
- Michael Leaverton, SF Weekly
"Snob Theater is genius. It's a beautiful and truly awesome fusion of great comedy and great local music. I came out for Snob Theater a little while back and was beyond impressed. It was such a fun concept and housed in the Dark Room - it's got a ton of character."
- Jessica T., Yelp.com
"...deeply artistic and punk rock and felini like. I'll remember it for sures." - Michael Musika
sf weekly article 2/16/2011 sf weekly article 12/30/2010
the bay bridged article 10/21/2010
the bay bridged article 4/5/2010
the bay bridged article 5/11/2010
the sf critic article 6/24/2010
the bay bridged article 9/16/2010


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With the forecast calling for significant rain on Sunday, No. 20 Kentucky and Alabama have altered their Southeastern Conference opening weekend schedule and will now play a doubleheader on Saturday, starting at 1:35 p.m. ET at Sewell-Thomas Stadium.
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MCM News
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Autumn/Winter 14 - Campaign Mood Video Exclusive
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Kurston aka Kurt166
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Style Anywhere
Street style shot of a man wearing double MCM - what a guy!
Cool shades, cult brand and Stark backpack, you can't go wrong with this combination!
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Sean Pok
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Love from Mademoiselle Robot
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GreatSchools Rating
Teacher quality
Principal leadership
Parent involvement
Manual has great students and staff, but the staff haven't guided the students abilities. I agree that it is powerful, but it needs alot of cleanup.
This school is very powerful. Often tim epepole say ' You go to Manual' in a negitive way. Its not about where you come form, its where youre going. Manual has a 94% of (2009) seniors that headed to collage. Its good to be a Ram (IGTBAR)! Go Rams!
As a student I try to attend Manual everyday. We have okay teachers, and the staff is alright. The students are very smart but some are lazy,and have great talents but do not know how to harnest their talents in a postive way. They need positive energy to do positive things but all they have is negative energy so they turn to negative things. This school is very fun and bully free! This school is the kind of school where everyone usually gets along with one another not that we don't have fights because sometimes we do but what school doesn't have a brawl ever now and then.
All though manual high doesn't have all the fancy high test scores, they really provide a solid education. They teach about the real world and the teachers relate topics so the students get it. I used to attend richwoods high school and the staff and student body were so full of themselves it hurt. the teachers there could care less about you and everyone there really is snoody. at manual you'll find no such thing, everyone is nice and says hello and the students have lives and aren't stressed out all of the time, they have street smarts and know how to talk to people. maybe if manual was given money by the district or maybe richwoods might actually share. do not pay attention to manual's bad rep, it teaches you a good curriculum but more importantly gives you a realistic education. Give manual a chance people.
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811 South Griswold Street
Peoria, IL 61605
Phone: (309) 672-6600
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text: Kassandra NickKraken wrote: > I thought they were talking about an embroidered awards scroll. > That's what I need some information on. I know some people have done > one but I've never had the fortune to see one. If anyone who has or > has seen one could please tell me more about it I would be grateful. Seen one? I've *done* one! :) Earlier this summer, the Atlantian Embroiderers' Guild presented our "petition for charter" to Queen Niobe at the Kingdom Arts Festival. (It's an SCA thing ...) The charter had to be done *really* quick -- I had to get approval on the text, work up a suitable design, and embroider the whole thing in less than two weeks. I ended up working the whole thing in backstitch, or double running stitch, in some places. (You can see the text of the charter at http://moas.atlantia.sca.org/guilds/aeg/charter.htm) The header of the charter was basically an outlined large calligraphy hand (I think it's a style called straight blackletter) and the body of the charter was a more realistic-looking rendition of a much narrower style of calligraphy (looking kind of like the batarde styles but less loopy). The lettering from the header was pretty much copied faithfully from a modern book of lettering styles for counted work embroidery, but the lettering for the body was a little more organic which I think helped it to look more like real calligraphy. (The "signatures" were all done in a fairly blocky small lettering style.) There was really nothing terribly ornamental about it. It was worked in good old DMC 310 on the kind of Irish linen that comes in a plastic tube. I had worked it on my scroll bars, so it was presented rolled up on the scroll bars -- so as to look like a real scroll. Plus, since Niobe wanted to embroider her signature herself, I had the rest of the scroll bar frame ready, along with a bunch of supplies in case she wanted to embroider it that evening :) If I do another embroidered SCA scroll, it will probably be much more colorful. As soon as I get the scroll back, I will try to get a picture of it to put online with the charter webpage. Karen ============================================================================ Go to http://lists.ansteorra.org/lists.html to perform mailing list tasks.