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Topic: GEORGIA: FIGHTING RAGES IN S. OSSETIA, RUSSIAN TANKS HEAD FOR BATTLE (Read 224938 times)
Posts: 228
Re: GEORGIA: FIGHTING RAGES IN S. OSSETIA, RUSSIAN TANKS HEAD FOR BATTLE
Reply #1200 on:
August 12, 2008, 12:27:40 AM »
For those who has not understood why Russia has rejected the UN resolution
(or for those who have not been let to understand)
There are NO positions about...
•...a recognition and clear definitions of Georgia aggression acts ,
•...about humanitarian accident in S.Ossetia (Tshinval destroyed as u can remember)
•...consolidating of the subsequent safe existence of the ossetian and abhazian people and their terriory
• etc...
so its pro-georgian document. as for me -> pro-georgian = tottaly WRONG
: There is NO Russian army in Georgia. Tbilisi (or what?) civil airport is in safe. Pipeline is in safe. ...Georgian people are in safe... etc...
[BUT!] Military positions of georgian artillery mounts and other weapons of distant radius of defeat and action (which are situated on georgia territory) - are exposed to preventive(anticipating) attacks
[i mean before such weapons/tools start to shoot from georgian territory - as usually happens]
or are destroyed during special operations without the region occupation (of their location\arrangement)
For Your Use
video & statements [on english]
-> video,statements
•introducing topic there ->
•icq #218-389-594.
Posts: 723
Re: GEORGIA: FIGHTING RAGES IN S. OSSETIA, RUSSIAN TANKS HEAD FOR BATTLE
Reply #1201 on:
August 12, 2008, 02:13:03 AM »
I am watching Live from Moscow, Lavrov : Georgian Peace Keepers Must Leave S Ossetia..
OSCE : We are engaging in frantic diplomatic efforts.
And Lavrov has stated that they do not trust Georgian military, basically they are stating that they are going to wipe them out, and occupy Georgia.
I will get this uploaded to Youtube Stat.
Posts: 723
Re: GEORGIA: FIGHTING RAGES IN S. OSSETIA, RUSSIAN TANKS HEAD FOR BATTLE
Reply #1202 on:
August 12, 2008, 02:22:03 AM »
Russia has just called that Sasskashvili must stand down (the US puppet President of Georgia) before Russia will even come to the peace table, and are talking about squashing Georgia's military...
So they have just stated their position - Georgia will either be squashed militarily or will have a government favourable to the Russians put into power - reestablishing their buffer.
Who is the OSCE? These are the people going between the Russians and the Americans. They are stating that they are not in the business of choosing sides as to who is right or wrong, but are stating that they are simply trying to broker a ceasefire, and they are going back and forth between Lavrov and Rice, who are they and how were they able to become the peace broker between them? Who funded them and who are their controllers?
Posts: 723
Re: GEORGIA: FIGHTING RAGES IN S. OSSETIA, RUSSIAN TANKS HEAD FOR BATTLE
Reply #1203 on:
August 12, 2008, 03:49:26 AM »
Here is the video for anyone who wants to watch it - this is a Live Feed of Lavrov through BBC
As this is being posted strangely the BBC is declaring that Medvedev (Russian side) has ordered a cessation of military activities... I do not know if this is a 'gesture of good faith' or not after the talks. However they basically will not negotiate with Georgia while Saaksvili is in power..
So then you have Russia hold large parts of Georgia, but not negotiating with anyone at this time.
mike E. dangerously
Posts: 267
none can escape the Sandman's dark dreams.
Re: GEORGIA: FIGHTING RAGES IN S. OSSETIA, RUSSIAN TANKS HEAD FOR BATTLE
Reply #1204 on:
August 12, 2008, 03:59:28 AM »
Quote from: XR500Final on August 12, 2008, 02:22:03 AM
Russia has just called that Sasskashvili must stand down (the US puppet President of Georgia) before Russia will even come to the peace table, and are talking about squashing Georgia's military...
So they have just stated their position - Georgia will either be squashed militarily or will have a government favourable to the Russians put into power - reestablishing their buffer.
Who is the OSCE? These are the people going between the Russians and the Americans. They are stating that they are not in the business of choosing sides as to who is right or wrong, but are stating that they are simply trying to broker a ceasefire, and they are going back and forth between Lavrov and Rice, who are they and how were they able to become the peace broker between them? Who funded them and who are their controllers?
Saakashvili has just been screwed,y'all the "international community" is looking for the fastest way to end this since they underestimated the Russians response.They may very well wash thier hands of him and his band of idiots.
"What is it that sucks at my soul so acutely? What emptiness drives me out into the night time and again to fight forces I cannot hope to defeat.?"- The Sandman
Posts: 228
Re: GEORGIA: FIGHTING RAGES IN S. OSSETIA, RUSSIAN TANKS HEAD FOR BATTLE
Reply #1205 on:
August 12, 2008, 04:10:54 AM »
•Russian representative (Rogozin) try to iniciate Russia-NATO Negotiations to show some facts (cauze a big amount of misinformation still exist)
•USA blocked Russia-NATO Negotiations
(of course, USA dont want to expose(put) its ass under the strike)
•introducing topic there ->
•icq #218-389-594.
Posts: 1,141
Stop The New World Order
Re: GEORGIA: FIGHTING RAGES IN S. OSSETIA, RUSSIAN TANKS HEAD FOR BATTLE
Reply #1206 on:
August 12, 2008, 04:20:33 AM »
Stratfor acknowledges Russia defeated US, not Georgian army in South Ossetia
Front page / World / Former USSR
11.08.2008 Source: Pravda.Ru
The USA acknowledged that Russia had virtually defeated the US, but not the Georgian army in South Ossetia. US instructors have spent four years training the Georgian army for an attack against Russian citizens. The US administration refused to help Saakashvili, because the true goal of the new game in the Caucasus is absolutely different. Experts of Stratfor, the so-called Shadow CIA, stated that the Russian army had not only preserved its battling capacity but also proved to the whole world that was it capable of defeating an armed enemy, trained by US instructors.
A report from Stratfor particularly mentions that the operation in South Ossetia has exercised three things. First off, Russia has proved to have the army capable of conducting successful operations, in which many Western observers doubted before. Secondly, the Russians have showed that they can defeat the forces trained by US advisors. Finally, Russia has shown that the USA and NATO do not find themselves in the situation when they can interfere into a conflict from the military point of view.
At the same time, the experts consider it to be a military demonstration of Russia to former republics of the Soviet Union, including Ukraine, the entire Caucasus and Central Asia. In addition, they see a hidden warning to Poland and the Czech Republic against the background of a possible deployment of elements of the US missile defense system in those countries. However, the experts exclude an opportunity for Moscow to organize an intervention against some of the above-mentioned countries.
Stratfors statement means that the fight is over for Georgia and that the US administration is not going to cross the red line in its relations with Russia. Saakashvilis hopes for NATO to become involved in a conflict with Russia went up in smoke.
The USA is pursuing absolutely different goals, and the creation of the Great Georgia is surely not on its list. The Republicans organized the provocation to portray Russia as a monster on the globe on the threshold of the November elections. This plays into the hands of John McCain, who openly says that Russias imperial ambition needs to be curbed.
This way or other, the USA has used the small country of Georgia as a toy.
"Biotechnology it's not so bad. It's just like all technologies it's in the wrong HANDS!"- Sepultura
Posts: 2,703
Gods army is real..join up..
Re: GEORGIA: FIGHTING RAGES IN S. OSSETIA, RUSSIAN TANKS HEAD FOR BATTLE
Reply #1207 on:
August 12, 2008, 04:51:48 AM »
It looks like the russian president has called to an end of the violence?..
one man with courage makes a majority..TJ
Posts: 2,348
Re: GEORGIA: FIGHTING RAGES IN S. OSSETIA, RUSSIAN TANKS HEAD FOR BATTLE
Reply #1208 on:
August 12, 2008, 05:02:45 AM »
Russia 'ends Georgia operation'
Russian President Dmitry Medvedev has ordered an end to military operations against Georgia, the Kremlin says.
He told officials he had taken the decision to end the campaign after restoring security for civilians and peacekeepers in South Ossetia.
hmmm.... I don't understand this. Why would they stop the operations all of a sudden? is it a threat from the U.S.?
The Sky is My Home
Posts: 1,362
Re: GEORGIA: FIGHTING RAGES IN S. OSSETIA, RUSSIAN TANKS HEAD FOR BATTLE
Reply #1209 on:
August 12, 2008, 05:03:50 AM »
Quote from: ConcordeWarrior on August 12, 2008, 05:02:45 AM
Russia 'ends Georgia operation'
Russian President Dmitry Medvedev has ordered an end to military operations against Georgia, the Kremlin says.
He told officials he had taken the decision to end the campaign after restoring security for civilians and peacekeepers in South Ossetia.
hmmm.... I don't understand this. Why would they stop the operations all of a sudden? is it a threat from the U.S.?
Well, to begin with they didn't start it ya know. They were antagonized.
Posts: 2,703
Gods army is real..join up..
Re: GEORGIA: FIGHTING RAGES IN S. OSSETIA, RUSSIAN TANKS HEAD FOR BATTLE
Reply #1210 on:
August 12, 2008, 05:08:20 AM »
I think the russians have reached their objective of ruffling the worlds feathers..poor john mccains gonna have a coronary..
one man with courage makes a majority..TJ
Posts: 718
Re: GEORGIA: FIGHTING RAGES IN S. OSSETIA, RUSSIAN TANKS HEAD FOR BATTLE
Reply #1211 on:
August 12, 2008, 05:11:03 AM »
Quote from: Triadtropz on August 12, 2008, 05:08:20 AM
I think the russians have reached their objective of ruffling the worlds feathers..poor john mccains gonna have a coronary..
Meanwhile bush is sitting back having a corona.
Dependence begets subservience and venality, suffocates the germ of virtue, and prepares fit tools for the designs of ambition.
Thomas Jefferson - 1787
Posts: 2,703
Gods army is real..join up..
Re: GEORGIA: FIGHTING RAGES IN S. OSSETIA, RUSSIAN TANKS HEAD FOR BATTLE
Reply #1212 on:
August 12, 2008, 05:14:38 AM »
If bush and the CIA are behind the attack on ossetia, they belong in a war crimes tribunal....bush is like a teflon war criminal though..you cant touch him?..
one man with courage makes a majority..TJ
Posts: 1,362
Re: GEORGIA: FIGHTING RAGES IN S. OSSETIA, RUSSIAN TANKS HEAD FOR BATTLE
Reply #1213 on:
August 12, 2008, 05:39:00 AM »
Quote from: Triadtropz on August 12, 2008, 05:14:38 AM
If bush and the CIA are behind the attack on ossetia, they belong in a war crimes tribunal....bush is like a teflon war criminal though..you cant touch him?..
Posts: 22,124
Re: GEORGIA: FIGHTING RAGES IN S. OSSETIA, RUSSIAN TANKS HEAD FOR BATTLE
Reply #1214 on:
August 12, 2008, 05:49:20 AM »
Georgia Tries out the Bush War Doctrine, Loses Badly
The president of tiny Georgia must have caught a case of his pal Bush's war lust to attack a Russian ally and think he'd win.
By Gary Brecher, eXiled Online
Posted on August 12, 2008, Printed on August 12, 2008
There are two basic facts to keep in mind about the smokin' little war in Ossetia:
1. The Georgians started it.
2. They lost.
If you want to get all serious and actually study up on Ossetia, North and South, and Georgia and the whole eternal gang war that they call the Caucasus, you can check out a column I did on that school-hostage splatter in Beslan, North Ossetia, a few years back.
South Ossetia is a little apple-shaped blob dangling from Russian territory down into Georgia, and most of it has been under control of South Ossetian irregulars backed by Russian "peacekeepers" for the last few years.
The Georgians didn't like that. You don't give up territory in that part of the world, ever. The Georgians have always been fierce people, good fighters, not the forgiving type. In fact, I can't resist a little bit of history here: remember when the Mongols wiped out Baghdad in 1258, the biggest slaughter in any of their conquests? Well, the most enthusiastic choppers and burners in the whole massacre were the Georgian Christian troops in Hulagu Khan's army. They wore out their hacking arms on those Baghdadi civilians. Nobody knows how many people were killed, but it was at least 200,000 -- a pretty big number in the days before antibiotics made life cheap.
So: hard people on every side in that part of the world. No quarter asked or given. No good guys. Especially not the Georgians. They have a rep as good people, one on one, but you don't want to mess with them, and you especially don't want to try to take land from them.
The Georgians bided their time, then went on the offensive, Caucasian style, by pretending to make peace and all the time planning a sneak attack on South Ossetia. They just signed a treaty granting autonomy to South Ossetia this week, and then they attacked. Georgian MLRS units barraged Tskhinvali, the capital city of South Ossetia; Georgian troops swarmed over Ossetian roadblocks; and all in all, it was a great, whiz-bang start, but like Petraeus asked about Iraq way back in 2003, what's the ending to this story? As in: How do you invade territory that the Russians have staked out for protection without thinking about how they'll react?
Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili just didn't think it through. One reason he overplayed his hand is that he got lucky the last time he had to deal with a breakaway region: Ajara, a tiny little strip of Black Sea coast in southern Georgia. It declared itself an "autonomous" republic, preserving its sacred basket-weaving traditions or whatever. You just have to accept that people in the Caucasus are insane that way; they'd die to keep from saying hello to the people over the next hill, and they're never going to change. The Ajarans aren't even ethnically different from Georgians; they're Georgian too. But they claim difference by being Muslims. And being different means they have to have their own Lego parliament and Tonka-Toy army and all the rest of that crap, and their leader, a wack job named Abashidze, volunteered them to fight to the death for their independence. Except he was such a nut, and so corrupt, and the Ajarans were so similar to the Georgians, and their little "country" was so tiny and ridiculous, that for once sanity prevailed and the Ajarans refused to fight, let themselves get reabsorbed by that Colossus to the North, mighty Georgia.
Well, like I've said before, there's nothing as dangerous as victory. Makes people crazy. Saakashvili started thinking he could gobble up any secessionist region -- like, say, South Ossetia. But there are big differences he was forgetting -- like the fact that South Ossetia isn't Georgian, has a border with Russia, and is linked up with North Ossetia just across that border. The road from Russia to South Ossetia is pretty fragile as a line of supply; it goes through the Roki Tunnel, a mountain tunnel at an altitude of 10,000 feet. I have to wonder why the Georgian air force -- and it's a good one by all accounts -- didn't have as its first mission in the war the total zapping of the South Ossetian exit of that tunnel. Or if you don't trust the flyboys, send in your special forces with a few backpacks full of explosives. There are a lot of ways to cripple a tunnel. Hell, do it low-tech: Drive a fuel truck in there, with a car following, jackknife the truck halfway through with a remote control or timing fuse -- truck driver gets out and strolls to the car, one fast U-turn and you're out and back in Georgia, just in time to see a ball of flame erupt from the tunnel exit. And rebuilding a tunnel way up in the mountains is not an easy or a fast job. Sure, the Russians could resupply by air, but that's a much, much tougher job and would at least slow down the inevitable. Weird, then, that as far as I know the Georgians didn't even try to blast that tunnel. I don't go in for this kind of long-distance micromanaging of warfare, because there's usually a good reason on the ground for tactical decisions; it's the strategic decisions that are really crazy most of the time. But this one I just don't get.
Most likely the Georgians just thought the Russians wouldn't react. They were doing something they learned from Bush and Cheney: sticking to best-case scenarios, positive thinking. The Georgian plan was classic shock and awe with no hard, grown-up thinking about the long term. Their shiny new army would go in, zap the South Ossetians while they were on a peace hangover (the worst kind), and then, uh, they'd be welcomed as liberators? Sure, just like we were in Iraq. Man, you pay a price for believing in Bush. The Georgians did. They thought he'd help. And I just saw the little creep on TV, sitting in the stands watching the U.S.-China basketball game. I didn't even recognize Bush at first; I just wondered why they kept doing close-ups of this guy who looked like Hank Hill's legless dad up in the stands. Then they said it was the prez. They talk about people "growing in office"; well, he shrunk.
And the more he shrinks, the more you pay for believing in him. The Georgians were naive because they were so happy to get out from the Soviets, the Russians' old enemy, the United States, must be paradise. So they did their apple-polishing best to be the perfect, obedient little ally. Then we'd let them into NATO and carpet-bomb them with SUVs and iPods.
Their part of the deal was simple: They sent troops to Iraq. First a contingent of 850, then, surprisingly, 2,000 men. When you consider the population of Georgia is less than 5 million, that's a lot of troops. In fact, Georgia is the third-biggest contributor to the "Coalition of the Willing," after the United States and Britain.
You might be thinking, Wow, not a good time to have so many of your best troops in Iraq, huh? Well, that's true, and it goes for a lot of countries -- like us, for instance -- but at least we're not facing a Russian invasion. The Georgians are so panicked they just announced they're sending half their Iraqi force home, and could the USAF please give them a lift?
We'll probably give them a ride, but that's about all we can do. We've already done plenty, not because we love Georgians but to counterbalance the Russian influence down where the new oil pipeline is staked out. The biggest American aid project was the GTEP, "Georgia Train and Equip" project ($64 million). It featured 200 Special Forces instructors teaching fine Georgia boys all the lessons the U.S. Army has learned recently. Now here's the joke. We were stressing counterinsurgency skills: small-unit cohesion, marksmanship, intelligence. The idea was to keep Georgia safe from Chechens or other Muslim loonies infiltrating through the Pankisi Gorge in northeast Georgia. And we did a good job. The Georgian Army pacified the Pankisi in classic Green Beret style. The punch line is, the Georgians got so cocky from that success, and from their lovefest with the Bushies in D.C., that they thought they could take on anybody. What they're in the process of finding out is that a light-infantry counterinsurgency force like the one we gave them isn't much use when a gigantic Russian armored force has just rolled across your border.
The American military's response so far has been all talk, and pretty damn stupid talk at that. A Pentagon spokesperson called Russia's response "disproportionate." What the hell are they talking about? They've been watching too many cop shows. Cops have this doctrine of "minimum necessary force," not that they actually operate that way unless there are video cameras around. Armies never, ever had that policy, because it's a good way to get your troops killed needlessly. The whole idea in war is to fight as unfairly and disproportionately as possible. If you've got it, you use it.
If you want a translation, luckily I speak fluent Pentagon. So what "disproportionate" means is -- well, imagine that you're watching some little hanger-on who tags along with you get his ass whipped by a bully, and you say, "That's inappropriate!" I mean, instead of actually helping him. That's what "disproportionate" means from the Pentagon: "We're not going to lift a finger to help you, but hey, we're with you in spirit, little buddy!"
The quickest way to see who's winning in any war is to see who asks first for a ceasefire. And this time it was the Georgians. Once it was clear the Russians were going to back the South Ossetians, the war was over. Even Georgians were saying, "To fight Russia by ourselves is insane." Which means they thought Russia wouldn't back its allies. Not a bad bet; Russia has a long, unpredictable history of screwing its allies -- but not all the time. The Georgians should know better than anybody that once in a while, the Russians actually come through, because it was Russian troops who saved Georgia from a Persian invasion in 1805, at the battle of Zagam. Of course the Russians had let the Persians sack Tbilisi, Georgia's capital, just 10 years earlier without helping. That's the thing: The bastards are unpredictable. You can't even count on them to betray their friends (though it's the safer bet, most of the time, sort of like 6:5 odds).
This time, the Russians came through. For lots of reasons, starting with the fact that Bush is weak and they know it; that the United States is all tied up in that crap Iraq War; and most of all, because Kosovo just declared independence from Serbia, an old Russian ally. It's tit-for-tat time, with Kosovo as the tit and South Ossetia as the tat. The way Putin sees it, if we can mess with his allies and let little ethnic enclaves like Kosovo declare independence, then the Russians can do the same with our allies, especially naive, idiotic allies like Georgia. It's a pawn exchange, if that. If it signals anything bigger, it's the fact that the United States is weaker than it was 10 years ago and Russia is much, much stronger than it was in Yeltsin's time. But anybody with sense knew all that already.
Luckily, South Ossetia doesn't matter that much. I'm just being honest here. In a year, nobody will care much who runs that little glob of territory. What's more serious is that another, bigger and more strategic chunk of Georgia called Abkhazia, on the Black Sea, is taking the opportunity to boot out the last Georgian troops on its territory. Georgia may lose almost all its coastline, but then the Georgians were always an inland people anyway, living along river valleys, not great sailors.
Even so, the great Russian-Ossetian land grab will make great material for another few centuries of gloating, ballads, blood oaths, revenge and counter-grabs. In this part of the world, there's always something to avenge.
This is an adapted version of an essay by Brecher that appeared on eXiled online.
War Nerd by Gary Brecher (Soft Skull, 2008). Read more of his work on eXiled online.
© 2008 eXiled Online All rights reserved.
View this story online at:
Posts: 22,124
Re: GEORGIA: FIGHTING RAGES IN S. OSSETIA, RUSSIAN TANKS HEAD FOR BATTLE
Reply #1215 on:
August 12, 2008, 06:06:11 AM »
U.S. role in the Georgian crisis
The U.S. & NATO are behind the Georgian invasion of South Ossetia but have misjudged Russian resolve. It's time for Europe to choose whether it wants Russia as a friend or an enemy.
By Christopher King
The European Union needs to re-evaluate its relationship to both the United States and NATO.
Ive said recently that U.S. plans to instal a missile shield in Poland and the Czech Republic are designed to cause trouble between Europe and Russia as well as distracting Europe from U.S. Middle Eastern outrages. These missiles, under U.S. control, are supposed to protect Europe and if you believe that, you probably believe in the tooth fairy.
U.S. negotiations for these missiles dont appear to be going very well since the Poles and Czechs dont much like the idea of being targeted in response by Russian missiles and the Russians have been musing about installing their missiles in Cuba for a re-run of the Cuban missile crisis and near nuclear war of the 1960s. That would not be popular with U.S. voters. What do do? Are there any trouble spots that can be stoked up to show Russia as an aggressor? What about Georgia and the South Ossetia separatists on Russias southern border?
So weve arrived at having a U.S./NATO-sponsored provocation with Georgia invading its breakaway semi-independent province. South Ossetias declaration of independence was supported by almost all its residents. The South Ossetian argument is that if the West and NATO supported Kosovos independence from Serbia, they should support its independence from Georgia. That sounds reasonable. No? Of course, no! The difference is that South Ossetia wants ties with Russia and the U.S. has been pressing for Georgia to join NATO.
Condoleeza Rice predictably, was quick to call on the Russians to withdraw from South Ossetia. President Bush says sanctimoniously that Georgia is a sovereign nation and that its territorial integrity should be respected. That is pretty rich (hypocritical) as we say in the UK. Before Condoleeza or anyone else in the U.S. takes that position they could prevail on President Bush to leave Iraq and Afghanistan where they are looting oil, killing hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people, driving millions of refugees from their homes and creating general disaster half a world away from their own country.
While she is about it, Condoleeza could also call on the Israelis to leave Palestinian and Syrian territory outside their 1967 borders and allow the ethnically cleansed Palestinians and their descendants to return and re-claim their property that was stolen by the Israelis.
To return to South Ossetia and Georgia, we should note that NATO rejected South Ossetias referendum in favour of independence. "Whats this? What does a national referendum, particularly in a non-NATO country, have to do with NATO? you might wonder; Isnt NATO our warrior arm, dedicated to defend us against armed aggression? Not any more. Its now a political organization as well. The EU countries should seriously consider whether it is a good idea to allow its military arm to make political decisions, particularly when it is driven by U.S. rather than European interests.
NATO has also taken on a role in formulating conspiracy theories against Russia, for example Russias Gas OPEC plans", reported by the Financial Times. There seems to be no evidence for this whatever and even if it were true, (a) What does it have to do with NATO and (b) Would it matter more than our existing oil OPEC? Russia still wants to sell its gas and can do so on any terms it wishes whether NATO or the EU like them or not.
The new non-Communist free-market Russia, that the U.S. and Europe wanted and got, is a disaster for NATO because it no longer has an enemy. The only way to save careers and maintain funding is for NATO officers to create enemies and new threats. Its presence in Iraq and Afghanistan is no longer popular so a prod at Russia through South Ossetia has doubtless been designed to produce a response that can be spun as Russian aggression.
The new Russia is also a disaster for the U.S. Russia is creating strong economic ties with Europe. There is serious talk of a free trade agreement between the EU and Russia and the possibility of Russia becoming an EU member is being talked about. Russia is, after all, historically a part of Europe. You can imagine how the idea of such an economic superpower is perceived in the U.S. with its declining oil reserves and economy.
As matters stand, rather than having the purely defensive joint military force with the U.S. that was its original purpose, Europe finds itself supporting, through NATO, the U.S.s aggressive foreign policies in the Middle East. Worse still, NATO is formenting trouble between Europe and Russia, which should be thought of as a valuable friend and future EU partner, rather than an enemy.
To be blunt, NATO has become a tool for the extension of U.S. influence and foreign policy. This is argued cogently by F. William Engdahl whose article I have resisted plagiarising. One might consider why Finland rejects NATO membership. The main reason given by opponents of membership in a poll 18 months ago is that Finland could be drawn into conflicts that have no direct bearing on their country. This seems to be a polite refusal to fight wars for the U.S. and Israel.
Indeed, Israel has recently joined a NATO exercise and Italys defence minister has proposed that Israel should join NATO. Certainly it might, when it withdraws to its pre-1967 borders, abandons its settlements on stolen Palestinian land and gives right of return to the Palestinians. Alternatively, a single state with right of return and equal rights might do.
The evidence is clear. NATO has become not only counter-productive to European interests but an immediate danger to the EU as an arm of the U.S. military-industrial complex. The South Ossetia conflict is an unmistakable warning. The U.S. and NATO provocateurs have shown their hand and have gone too far. Russia has acted with commendable restraint in relation to the U.S.s outrageous attempts to bribe new EU countries to accept its missiles on Russias borders.
There can be no doubt that the U.S. and NATO are behind the Georgian invasion of South Ossetia but have misjudged Russian restraint for unwillingness to act. What they now have is called, I believe, blowback. The EU needs to reassess NATO from fundamental principles of its defensive needs. The current senior command of NATO has clearly been politicized by the U.S. This is unacceptable as also is NATOs current role as tool of the U.S.
The EU should make some decisions about its links and future with Russia, its economically important and militarily powerful neighbour. The choice is simple: to have Russia as a friend in the short term and EU member eventually or make it an enemy. It is clear that the USAs military-industrial complex needs Russia as an enemy, not only to stay in business but to prevent a European Union/Russian superstate developing. Europe needs to pursue its own peaceful interests, ideally keeping a good relationship with the U.S. while working with Russia toward closer economic integration. If the US does not like that, it is too bad. The U.S. has used up its global credibility and goodwill.
Russia has had a bad press in the West for the last 60 years, not always undeserved. We should recall, however, that the man who set Russia and the Soviet Union on its post-war course, created Churchills iron curtain, the nuclear arms race and the repressive character of the Soviet post-war state, was not Russian at all. Josef Vissarionovich Dzhugashvili, otherwise known as Stalin, was Georgian, born in Gori, just south of South Ossetia.
-- Christopher King is a retired consultant and lecturer in management and marketing. He lives in London, UK. This article appeared in Redress Information & Analysis.
-- Middle East Online
Posts: 22,124
Re: GEORGIA: FIGHTING RAGES IN S. OSSETIA, RUSSIAN TANKS HEAD FOR BATTLE
Reply #1216 on:
August 12, 2008, 06:12:15 AM »
Russia Georgia War
Washington Risks Nuclear War by Miscalculation
By F William Engdahl
11/08/08 "Market Oracle" --- - The dramatic military attack by the military of the Republic of Georgia on South Ossetia in the last days has brought the world one major step closer to the ultimate horror of the Cold War eraa thermonuclear war between Russia and the United Statesby miscalculation. What is playing out in the Caucasus is being reported in US media in an alarmingly misleading light, making Moscow appear the lone aggressor. The question is whether George W. Bush and Dick Cheney are encouraging the unstable Georgian President, Mikhail Saakashvili in order to force the next US President to back the NATO military agenda of the Bush Doctrine. This time Washington may have badly misjudged the possibilities, as it did in Iraq , but this time with possible nuclear consequences.
The underlying issue, as I stressed in my July 11 piece in this space, Georgien, Washington, Moskau: Atomarer geopolitischer Machtpoker , is the fact that since the dissolution of the Warsaw Pact in 1991 one after another former member as well as former states of the USSR have been coaxed and in many cases bribed with false promises by Washington into joining the counter organization, NATO.
Rather than initiate discussions after the 1991 dissolution of the Warsaw Pact about a systematic dissolution of NATO, Washington has systematically converted NATO into what can only be called the military vehicle of an American global imperial rule, linked by a network of military bases from Kosovo to Poland to Turkey to Iraq and Afghanistan . In 1999, former Warsaw Pact members Hungary , Poland and the Czech Republic joined NATO. Bulgaria , Estonia , Latvia , Lithuania , Romania , and Slovakia followed suit in March 2004. Now Washington is putting immense pressure on the EU members of NATO, especially Germany and France , that they vote in December to admit Georgia and Ukraine .
The roots of the conflict
The specific conflict between Georgia and South Ossetia and Abkhazia has its roots in the following. First, the Southern Ossetes , who until 1990 formed an autonomous region of the Georgian Soviet republic, seek to unite in one state with their co-ethnics in North Ossetia , an autonomous republic of the Russian Soviet republic and now the Russian Federation . There is an historically grounded Ossete fear of violent Georgian nationalism and the experience of Georgian hatred of ethnic minorities under then Georgian leader Zviad Gamsakhurdia, which the Ossetes see again under Georgian President, Mikhel Saakashvili. Saakashvili was brought to power with US financing and US covert regime change activities in December 2003 in what was called the Rose Revolution. Now the thorns of that rose are causing blood to spill.
Abkhazia and South Ossetiathe first a traditional Black Sea resort area, the second an impoverished, sparsely populated region that borders Russia to the northeach has its own language, culture, history. When the Soviet Union collapsed, both regions sought to separate themselves from Georgia in bloody conflicts - South Ossetia in 1990-1, Abkhazia in 1992-4.
(visit site for map!)
In December 1990 Georgia under Gamsakhurdia sent troops into South Ossetia after the region declared its own sovereignty. This Georgian move was defeated by Soviet Interior Ministry troops. Then Georgia declared abolition of the South Ossete autonomous region and its incorporation into Georgia proper. Both wars ended with cease-fires that were negotiated by Russia and policed by peacekeeping forces under the aegis of the recently established Commonwealth of Independent States. The situation hardened into "frozen conflicts," like that over Cyprus . By late 2005, Georgia signed an agreement that it would not use force, and the Abkhaz would allow the gradual return of 200,000-plus ethnic Georgians who had fled the violence. But the agreement collapsed in early 2006, when Saakashvili sent troops to retake the Kodori Valley in Abkhazia. Since then Saakashvili has been escalating preparations for military action.
Critical is Russia 's support for the Southern Ossetes . Russia is unwilling to see Georgia join NATO. In addition, the Ossetes are the oldest Russian allies in the Caucasus who have provided troops to the Russian army in many wars. Russia does not wish to abandon them and the Abkhaz, and fuel yet more ethnic unrest among their compatriots in the Russian North Caucasus . In a November 2006 referendum, 99 percent of South Ossetians voted for independence from Georgia , at a time when most of them had long held Russian passports. This enabled Russian President Medvedev to justify his military's counter-attack of Georgia on Friday as an effort to "protect the lives and dignity of Russian citizens, wherever they may be."
For Russia , Ossetia has been an important strategic base near the Turkish and Iranian frontiers since the days of the czars. Georgia is also an important transit country for oil being pumped from the Caspian Sea to the Turkish port of Ceyhan and a potential base for Washington efforts to encircle Tehran .
As far as the Georgians are concerned, South Ossetia and Abkhazia are simply part of their national territory, to be recovered at all costs. Promises by NATO leaders to bring Georgia into the alliance, and ostentatious declarations of support from Washington , have emboldened Saakashvili to launch his military offensive against the two provinces, South Ossetia and Abkhazia. Saakashvili and likely, Dick Cheney's office in Washington appear to have miscalculated very badly. Russia has made it clear that it has no intention of ceding its support for South Ossetia or Abkhazia.
Proxy War
In March this year as Washington went ahead to recognize the independence of Kosovo in former Yugoslavia, making Kosovo a de facto NATO-run territory against the will of the UN Security Council and especially against Russian protest, Putin responded with Russian Duma hearings on recognition of Abkhazia, South Ossetia and Transnistria, a pro-Russian breakaway republic in Moldova. Moscow argued that the West's logic on Kosovo should apply as well to these ethnic communities seeking to free themselves from the control of a hostile state. In mid-April, Mr. Putin held out the possibility of recognition for the breakaway republics. It was a geopolitical chess game in the strategic Caucasus for the highest stakesthe future of Russia itself.
Saakashvili called then-President Putin to demand he reverse the decision. He reminded Putin that the West had taken Georgia 's side. This past April at the NATO summit in Bucharest, Romania, US President Bush proposed accepting Georgia into NATO's "Action Plan for Membership," a precursor to NATO membership. To Washington 's surprise, ten NATO member states refused to support his plan, including Germany , France and Italy .
They argued that accepting the Georgians was problematic, because of the conflicts in Abkhazia and South Ossetia . They were in reality saying that they would not be willing to back Georgia as, under Article 5 of the NATO treaty, which mandates that an armed attack against any NATO member country must be considered an attack against them all and consequently requires use of collective armed force of all NATO members, it would mean that Europe could be faced with war against Russia over the tiny Caucasus Republic of Georgia, with its incalculable dictator, Saakashvili. That would mean the troubled Caucasus would be on a hair-trigger to detonate World War III.
Russia threatens Georgia , but Georgia threatens Abkhazia and South Ossetia . Russia looks like a crocodile to Georgia , but Georgia looks to Russia like the cats' paw of the West. Since Saakashvili took power in late 2003 the Pentagon has been in Georgia giving military aid and training. Not only are US military personnel active in Georgia today. According to an Israeli-intelligence source, DEBKA file, in 2007, the Georgian President Saakashvili commissioned from private Israeli security firms several hundred military advisers, estimated at up to 1,000, to train the Georgian armed forces in commando, air, sea, armored and artillery combat tactics. They also have been giving instruction on military intelligence and security for the central regime. Tbilisi also purchased weapons, intelligence and electronic warfare systems from Israel . These advisers were undoubtedly deeply involved in the Georgian army's preparations to conquer the South Ossetian capital Friday.
Debkafile reported further, Moscow has repeatedly demanded that Jerusalem halt its military assistance to Georgia , finally threatening a crisis in bilateral relations. Israel responded by saying that the only assistance rendered Tbilisi was defensive.' The Israeli news source added that Israel 's interest in Georgia has to do as well with Caspian oil pipeline geopolitics. Jerusalem has a strong interest in having Caspian oil and gas pipelines reach the Turkish terminal port of Ceyhan , rather than the Russian network. Intense negotiations are afoot between Israel Turkey, Georgia , Turkmenistan and Azarbaijan for pipelines to reach Turkey and thence to Israel 's oil terminal at Ashkelon and on to its Red Sea port of Eilat . From there, supertankers can carry the gas and oil to the Far East through the Indian Ocean .
This means that the attack on South Ossetia is the first battle in a new proxy warfare between Anglo-American-Israeli led interests and Russia . The only question is whether Washington miscalculated the swiftness and intensity of the Russian response to the Georgian attacks of 8.8.08.
So far, each step in the Caucasus drama has put the conflict on a yet higher plane of danger. The next step will no longer be just about the Caucasus , or even Europe . In 1914 it was the Guns of August that initiated the Great War. This time the Guns of August 2008 could be the detonator of World War III and a nuclear holocaust of unspeakable horror.
Nuclear Primacy: the larger strategic danger
Most in the West are unaware how dangerous the conflict over two tiny provinces in a remote part of Eurasia has become. What is left out of most all media coverage is the strategic military security context of the Caucasus dispute.
In my book, Century of War , I describe the developments by NATO and most directly by Washington since the end of the Cold War to systematically pursue what military strategists call Nuclear Primacy. Put simply, if one of two opposing nuclear powers is able to first develop an operational anti-missile defense, even primitive, that can dramatically weaken a potential counter-strike by the opposing side's nuclear arsenal, the side with missile defense has won the nuclear war.
As mad as this sounds, it has been explicit Pentagon policy through the last three Presidents from father Bush in 1990, to Clinton and most aggressively, George W. Bush. This is the issue where Russia has drawn a deep line in the sand, understandably so. The forceful US effort to push Georgia as well as Ukraine into NATO would present Russia with the spectre of NATO literally coming to its doorstep, a military threat that is aggressive in the extreme, and untenable for Russian national security.
This is what gives the seemingly obscure fight over two provinces the size of Luxemburg the potential to become the 1914 Sarajevo trigger to a new nuclear war by miscalculation. The trigger for such a war is not Georgia 's right to annex South Ossetia and Abkhazia. Rather, it is US insistence on pushing NATO and its missile defense right up to Russia 's door.
By F. William Engdahl
COPYRIGHT © 2008 F. William Engdahl. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED
* F. William Engdahl is the author of A Century of War: Anglo-American Oil Politics and the New World Order (Pluto Press) and Seeds of Destruction: The Hidden Agenda of Genetic Manipulation ,
. The present series is adapted from his new book, now in writing, The Rise and Fall of the American Century: Money and Empire in Our Era. He may be contacted through his website,
Posts: 22,124
Re: GEORGIA: FIGHTING RAGES IN S. OSSETIA, RUSSIAN TANKS HEAD FOR BATTLE
Reply #1217 on:
August 12, 2008, 06:13:38 AM »
Bush's War in Georgia
Will it be the Flyswatter or the Blunderbuss?
By Mike Whitney
I saw bodies lying on the streets, around ruined buildings and in cars. Its impossible to count them now. There's hardly a single building left undamaged. Lyudmila Ostayeva, resident of Tskhinvali, South Ossetia
11/08/08 "ICH" -- - Washington's bloody fingerprints are all over the invasion of South Ossetia. Georgia President Mikhail Saakashvili would never dream of launching a massive military attack unless he got explicit orders from his bosses at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. After all, Saakashvili owes his entire political career to American power-brokers and US intelligence agencies. If he disobeyed them, he'd be gone in a fortnight. Besides an operation like this takes months of planning and logistical support; especially if it's perfectly timed to coincide with the beginning of the Olympic games. (another petty neocon touch) That means Pentagon planners must have been working hand in hand with Georgian generals for months in advance. Nothing was left to chance.
Another tell-tale sign of US complicity is the way President Bush has avoided ordering Georgian troops to withdraw from a province that has been under the protection of international peacekeepers. Remember how quickly Bush ordered Sharon to withdraw from his rampage in Jenin? Apparently it's different when the aggression serves US interests.
Saakashvili has been working closely with the Bush administration ever since he replaced Eduard Shevardnadze as president in 2003. That's when US-backed NGOs and western intelligence agencies toppled the Shevardnadze regime in the so-called color-coded "Rose Revolution". Since then, Saakashvili has done everything that's been asked of him; he's built up the military and internal security apparatus, he's allowed US advisers to train and arm Georgian troops, he's applied for membership in NATO, and he's been a general nuisance to his Russian neighbors. Now, he has sent his army into battle ostensibly on Washington's orders. At least, that is how the Kremlin sees it. Vladimir Vasilyev, the Chairman of Russia's State Duma Security Committee, summed up the feelings of many Russians like this: "The further the situation unfolds, the more the world will understand that Georgia would never be able to do all this without America. In essence, the Americans have prepared the force, which destroys everything in South Ossetia, attacks civilians and hospitals."
True. That's why Bush is flying Georgian troops back home from Iraq to join the fighting rather than pursuing peaceful alternatives. Bush still believes that political solutions will naturally arise through the use of force. Unfortunately, his record is rather spotty.
But that still doesn't answer the larger question: Why would Saakashvili embark on such a pointless military adventure when he had no chance of winning? After all, Russia has 20 times the firepower and has been conducting military maneuvers anticipating this very scenario for months. Does Uncle Sam really want another war that bad or is the fighting in South Ossetia is just head-fake for a larger war that is brewing in the Straits of Hormuz?
Mikhail Saakashvili is a western educated lawyer and a favorite of the neocons. He rose to power on a platform of anti-corruption and economic reform which emphasized free market solutions and privatization. Instead of raising the standard of living for the Georgian people, Saakashvili has been running up massive deficits to expand the over-bloated military. Saakashvili has made huge purchases of Israeli and US-made (offensive) weapon systems and has devoted more than "4.2% of GDP (more than a quarter of all Georgian public income) to military hardware.
The Chairman of Russia's State Duma Security Committee, Vladimir Vasiliyev, summed it up like this:
"Georgia could have used the years of Saakashvili's presidency in different ways - to build up the economy, to develop the infrastructure, to solve social issues both in South Ossetia, Abkhazia and the whole state. Instead, the Georgian leadership with president Saakashvili undertook consistent steps to increase its military budget from US$30 million to $1 billion - Georgia was preparing for a military action." Naturally, Russia is worried about these developments and has brought the matter up repeatedly at the United Nations but to no avail.
Israeli arms manufacturers have also been supplying Saakashvili with state-of-the-art weaponry. According to Israeli newspaper Ha'aretz:
"In addition to the spy drones, Israel has also been supplying Georgia with infantry weapons and electronics for artillery systems, and has helped upgrade Soviet-designed Su-25 ground attack jets assembled in Georgia, according to Koba Liklikadze, an independent military expert in Tbilisi. Former Israeli generals also serve as advisers to the Georgian military." ("Following Russian pressure, Israel freezes defense sales to Georgia" Associated Press)
The Israeli news source DebkaFile elaborates on the geopolitical implications of Israeli involvement in the Georgia's politics:
"The conflict has been sparked by the race for control over the pipelines carrying oil and gas out of the Caspian region....The Russians may just bear with the pro-US Georgian president Mikhail Saakashvilis ambition to bring his country into NATO. But they draw a heavy line against his plans and those of Western oil companies, including Israeli firms, to route the oil routes from Azerbaijan and the gas lines from Turkmenistan, which transit Georgia, through Turkey instead of hooking them up to Russian pipelines.
Jerusalem owns a strong interest in Caspian oil and gas pipelines reach the Turkish terminal port of Ceyhan, rather than the Russian network. Intense negotiations are afoot between Israel Turkey, Georgia, Turkmenistan and Azarbaijan for pipelines to reach Turkey and thence to Israels oil terminal at Ashkelon and on to its Red Sea port of Eilat. From there, supertankers can carry the gas and oil to the Far East through the Indian Ocean." (Paul Joseph Watson, "US Attacks Russia Through Client State Georgia")
The United States and Israel are both neck-deep in the "Great Game"; the ongoing war for vital petroleum and natural gas supplies in Central Asia and the Caspian Basin. So far, Putin appears to have the upper-hand because of his alliances with his regional alliesunder the Commonwealth of Independent Statesand because most of the natural gas from Eurasia is pumped through Russian pipelines. An article in Todays Zaman gives a good snapshot of Russias position vis a vis natural resources in the region:
As far as natural resources are concerned Russias hand is very strong: It holds 6.6 percent of the worlds proven oil reserves and 26 percent of the worlds gas reserves. In addition, it currently accounts for 12 percent of world oil and 21 of recent world gas production. In May 2007, Russia was the worlds largest oil and gas producer.
As for national champions, Putin has strengthened and prepared Gazprom (the state-controlled gas company), Transneft (oil pipeline monopoly) and Rosneft (the state-owned oil giant). That is why in 2006 Gazprom retained full ownership in the giant Shtokman gas field (7) and took a controlling stake in the Sakhalin-2 natural gas project. In June 2007, it took back BPs Kovytka gas field and now is behind Totals Kharyaga oil and gas field. (Vladimir Putins Energystan and the Caspian Todays Zaman)
Putinthe black belt Judo-masterhas proved to be as adept at geopolitics as he is at deal-making. He has collaborated with the Austrian government on a huge natural gas depot in Austria which will facilitate the transport of gas to southern Europe. He has joined forces with German industry to build an underwater pipeline through the Baltic to Germany (which could provide 80% of Germanys gas requirements) He has selected Frances Total to assist Gazprom in the development of the massive Shtokman gas field. And he is setting up pipeline corridors to provide gas to Turkey and the Balkans. Putin has very deliberately spread Russias influence evenly throughout Europe with the intention of severing the Transatlantic Alliance and, eventually, loosening Americas vice-like grip on the continent.
Putins overtures to Germanys Merkel and Frances Sarkozy are calculated to weaken the resolve of Bushs neocon allies in the EU and put them in Russias corner. Putin is also attracting considerable foreign investment to Russian markets and has adopted a new model of cooperation in the energy sector that would allow foreign partners to share in the economic benefits of the project, share the management, and take on a share of the industrial, commercial and financial risks. (M K Bhadrakumar Russia plays the Shtokman card, Asia Times) All of these are intended to strengthen ties between Europe and Russia and make it harder for the Bush administration to isolate Moscow.
Putin has played his cards very wisely, which makes it look like the fighting in South Ossetia may be Washington's way of trying to win through military force what they could not achieve via the free market.
On Saturday, President Bush issued this statement from Beijing: "We have urged an immediate halt to the violence and a stand-down by all troops. We call for an end to the Russian bombings and a return by the parties to the status quo of August 6th."
That was it. Bush then quickly returned to the Olympic festivities. He was last spotted at a photo op with the US girls volleyball team jumping up and down on the beach-sand in his wingtips. The pretense that Bush is leading the country has seemingly been abandoned altogether. Cheney is in charge now.
Meanwhile, Putin boarded a plane to Moscow as soon as he heard about the Georgian invasion and after angrily waving his finger in Bush's face. It's doubtful that the friendship between the two leaders will survive the present storm. America's gambit in the Caucasus has aroused the sleeping bear and put Russia on the warpath. There's no telling when the hostilities might end. The conflagration could sweep across the entire region. Currently, news agencies are reporting that Russian warplanes are pounding Georgia's military bases, airfields, and the Black sea port of Poti.
According to Bill Van Auken on the World Socialist Web Site:
"Much of the city (Tskhinvali) was reportedly in flames Friday. The regional parliament building had burned down, the university was on fire, and the towns main hospital had been rendered inoperative by the bombardment."
Vesti radio reported that Georgian forces burned down a church in Tanara in South Ossetia where people were hiding, to the ground, with all the people inside. The Deputy Director of an information agency as an eye witness reported that fragments of cluster bombs of were found in Tskinvali. There have also been reports by a South Ossetian reservist that civilians who were hiding in basements were shot dead by Georgian soldiers.
Wikipedia reports that, "Russian soldiers captured group of American mercenaries on territory of South Ossetia. Group was captured near of Zare village."
An estimated 1,500 people have died in the onslaught and 30,000 more fled across the Russian border. Large swaths of the city have been reduced to rubble including the one hospital that was pounded by Georgia bombers. Georgia has cut off the water supply to the city.The Red Cross now anticipates a "humanitarian catastrophe" as a result of the fighting.
I saw bodies lying on the streets, around ruined buildings, in cars, Lyudmila Ostayeva, 50, told the Associated Press after fleeing the city with her family to a village near the Russian border. Its impossible to count them now. There is hardly a single building left undamaged.
At least 15 Russia peacekeepers were killed in the initial fighting and 70 more were sent to hospital. Georgia's army stormed the South Ossetia capital, Tskhinvali, killing more than 1,000 fleeing civilians. Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Grigory Karasin told news agencies in an interview how the hostilities began:
Russian peacekeepers "were killed by their own [Georgian] partners in the peacekeeping forces. There is a Russian battalion, an Ossetian battalion, and a Georgian battalion... and all of a sudden the Georgians, Georgian peacekeepers, begin shooting their Russian colleagues. This is of course a war crime. I do not rule out that the Hague and Strasbourg courts and institutions in other cities will be involved in investigating these crimes, and this inhuman drama that has been played out."
According to South Ossetia's president, Eduard Kokoyti, Georgian troops had been taking part in NATO exercises in the region since the beginning of August. Kokoyti claims that there is a connection between the NATO's activities and the current violence.
Clearly, no one was expecting Russia to react as quickly or as forcefully as they did. In a matter of hours Russian tanks and armored vehicles were streaming over the border while warplanes bombed targets throughout the south. The Bush-Saakashvili strategy unraveled in a matter of hours. The Georgia president is already calling for a cease-fire. He's had enough.
Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin has promised to spend $400 million to rebuild parts of South Ossetia. Large shipments of food and medical supplies are already on the way.
Russian President Dmitry Medvedev said on Sunday:
"The actions of Georgia have led to deaths - among them are Russian peacekeepers. The situation reached the point that Georgian peacekeepers have been shooting at Russian peacekeepers. Now women, children and old people are dying in South Ossetia - most of them are citizens of the Russian Federation. As the President of the Russian Federation, I am obligated to protect lives and the dignity of Russian citizens wherever they are. Those responsible for the deaths of our citizens will be punished."
Indeed, but how will Medvedev bring the responsible people to justice; with tanks and fighter pilots or is there another way?
PUTIN'S OPTIONS: Flyswatter or Blunderbuss?
Sometimes war provides clarity. That's certainly true in this case. After this weekends fighting, everyone in the Russian political establishment knows that Washington is willing to sacrifice thousands of innocent civilians and plunge the entire region into chaos to achieve its geopolitical objectives. Bush could call the whole thing off right now; Putin and Medvedev know that. But that's not the game-plan. So, the two Russian leaders have to make some tough decisions that will end up costing lives. What choice do they have?
Putin needs to carefully weigh his options. Then, on Monday, he should announce that Russia will sell all $50 billion of its Fannie Mae mortgage-backed bonds, all of it US dollar-backed assets, and will accept only rubles and euros in the future sale of Russian oil and natural gas. Then watch as the Dow Jones goes into a death-spiral. Why use a blunderbuss when a flyswatter will do just fine.
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Re: GEORGIA: FIGHTING RAGES IN S. OSSETIA, RUSSIAN TANKS HEAD FOR BATTLE
Reply #1218 on:
August 12, 2008, 06:15:08 AM »
I think the russians covinced a few eastern bloc countries not to ally with the USA here..If you ally with the US when push comes to shove..they will hang you out to dry...they sell you all the weapons then train you for what?..to get your ass kicked...
one man with courage makes a majority..TJ
Posts: 2,348
Re: GEORGIA: FIGHTING RAGES IN S. OSSETIA, RUSSIAN TANKS HEAD FOR BATTLE
Reply #1219 on:
August 12, 2008, 06:17:28 AM »
August 12, 2008
Russian Troops Report US And Israeli Soldiers Killed In Georgian War
By: Sorcha Faal, and as reported to her Western Subscribers
We have received our first report from Sister Nikolaevna who had traveled from Moscow to Vladikavkaz to assist in the aiding of the refuge children that have been pouring into Russia from South Ossetia after the brutal Georgian destruction of their homeland, and which details that many foreign fighters have been killed after Russian Military units began their liberation of both South Ossetia and Abkhazia.
According to staff officers accompanying Colonel-General Anatoly Nogovitsyn returning from the battlefront, at least 7 foreign fighters identified as American and Israel soldiers have been found among the rubble of the now freed, but destroyed, capital city of South Ossetia, Tskhinvali.
The 3 dead American soldiers, these reports state, were identified by their uniform patches as belonging to the United States 173 Airborne Brigade assigned to the US Southern European Command, and who just a few weeks ago were airlifted to Georgia for what was described as a war game exercise with Georgian Military Forces preparing for their unprovoked attack upon the Russian peoples of South Ossetia.
The 4 dead Israeli soldiers, these reports continue, are believed to part of the Israeli governments sponsored mercenary forces who have previously wreaked havoc in the US protected South American puppet state of Colombia, and to which Israel is now its largest weapons supplier.
Israel has, likewise, become the United States choice for funneling weapons to Georgian Military Forces, but are attempting to quickly back away from their part in this most unnecessary war, and as we can read as reported by the Haaretz News Service:
Israel is hoping to maintain a low profile with regard to the war in Georgia, government officials told Haaretz. One source noted that currently, neither side of the conflict is pleased with Israel's position, since Russia has been irked by Israeli-Georgian weapons deals for some time, and Tbilisi is now frustrated by Israel's decision to halt arms exports.
Russias chairman of the State Duma Committee for Security, Vladimir Vasilyev, was quick to blast the Americans by stating, The things that were happening in Kosovo, the things that were happening in Iraq we are now following the same path. The further the situation unfolds, the more the world will understand that Georgia would never be able to do all this without America. South Ossetian defense officials used to make statements about imminent aggression from Georgia, but the latter denied everything, whereas the US Department of State released no comments on the matter. In essence, they have prepared the force, which destroys everything in South Ossetia, attacks civilians and hospitals. They are responsible for this. The world community will learn about it.
Unfortunately, however, the peoples of the Western World, especially the United States, are not being told the truth about this war, and Georgias unprovoked attack upon South Ossetia and, instead, are being told by their propaganda media organs that Russia is the aggressor in this conflict, though Russian forces have done nothing more than what any sovereign Nation would do when invaded by a foreign military who began mass killings of civilians.
Russian Leaders Putin and Medvedev [both pictured top left] are, also, reported to be enraged by the United States providing an immediate airlift for Georgian Military Forces serving in Iraq, and which Military Analysts states make the United States an active participant in this war.
To the most unfortunate outcome of this new war for the American people is how, once again, they have been lied to by their War Leaders to support a brutal dictatorship, and as best pointed out by the AntiWar News Service:
What's particularly disgusting is the spectacle of the fraudulent Saakashvili's smug mug all over Western television the BBC and Bloomberg, for starters invoking his great love of "democracy" and "freedom" and calling on the U.S. to intervene in the name of supposedly shared "values." What drivel! Up until very recently, Saakashvili has been busy rounding up his political opponents and charging them with espionage, as his police beat demonstrators in the streets. When this happened, even our somnolent media sat up and took notice, but they seem to have forgotten.
Saakashvili uses the Western media as a platform to broadcast his great love for "freedom" and make the case against the Russian "aggressors," comparing the present conflict with the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in the 1980s and even the bloody 1956 repression of the Hungarians! This is nonsense. Russia is not the Soviet Union, the Iron Curtain has long since been melted down for scrap metal, and, if anything, Saakashvili resembles the Hungarian satraps of the Kremlin rather than the heroic freedom-fighters, given his absolute fealty to his foreign masters in Washington, to whom he appeals for help in putting down an internal rebellion.
As today brings to our senses another senseless slaughter of innocent civilians, and young soldiers doing the bidding of their Nations masters, one can only wonder when the American people themselves will awaken to full horror of the atrocities being perpetrated in their name by those seeking to do nothing more than enrich themselves upon the blood of innocents.
© August 12, 2008 EU and US all rights reserved.
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Re: GEORGIA: FIGHTING RAGES IN S. OSSETIA, RUSSIAN TANKS HEAD FOR BATTLE
Reply #1220 on:
August 12, 2008, 06:30:37 AM »
the US and israel are cruising for a bruising...If they think their imperial NWO is going to flourish with weapon sales to the world...that dream might be short lived...people are catching onto these 2 and their war machines...If Russia and China decide to make there NWO play..I see the US and israel going down...
one man with courage makes a majority..TJ
Re: GEORGIA: FIGHTING RAGES IN S. OSSETIA, RUSSIAN TANKS HEAD FOR BATTLE
Reply #1221 on:
August 12, 2008, 06:36:26 AM »
TIMELINE: Russia orders end to fighting in Georgia
Tue Aug 12, 2008 6:53am EDT
(Reuters) - Russian President Dmitry Medvedev ordered a halt to military operations in Georgia on Tuesday after five days of fighting.
Georgia entered a conflict with Russia last week after launching an offensive to retake the pro-Russian region of South Ossetia, which broke away from Georgian rule. The issue of South Ossetia's independence has bedevilled Georgia's relations with Russia. Here is a chronology of recent events:
April 3, 2008 - NATO member states at a summit in Bucharest agree that Georgia and Ukraine can one day join the alliance. They stop short of giving them a firm timetable for accession.
April 16 - Russian President Vladimir Putin orders officials to establish semi-official ties with separatist administrations in Georgia's Abkhazia and South Ossetia. Georgia says the order is a violation of international law.
April 20 - Georgia says a Russian Mig-29 fighter jet shot down a Georgian drone flying over Abkhazia. Russia denies involvement. A United Nations report later backs the Georgian version of events.
April 29 - Russia sends extra troops to Abkhazia to counter what it says are Georgian plans for an attack. The next day NATO accuses Moscow of stoking tensions with Georgia.
May 4 - Separatists in Abkhazia say they shot down two Georgian spy drones over the territory they control. Georgia denies any such flights.
May 6 - Georgia says Russia's deployment of extra troops in Abkhazia has brought the prospect of war "very close".
May 30 - Georgia says it stopped flights by unpiloted spy planes over Abkhazia but reserves the right to resume them.
May 31 - Putin, now prime minister, says he backs a Georgian proposal for Abkhazia's autonomy but not full independence.
July 5 - Russian President Dmitry Medvedev urges Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili to refrain from "stoking tensions" in Georgia's breakaway regions.
July 8 - Russian fighter jets fly into Georgian airspace over South Ossetia. Moscow says the mission was intended to "cool hot heads in Tbilisi". Two days later Georgia recalls its ambassador from Moscow in protest.
August 4 - Russia accuses Georgia of using excessive force in South Ossetia after the Russian-backed rebels said Georgian artillery had killed at least six people.
August 7 - Georgian troops attack South Ossetian capital after a truce with rebels breaks down, Russia says Tbilisi cannot be trusted and NATO should reconsider its plans to admit Georgia.
August 8 - Russia sends forces into Georgia to repel the Georgian assault. Medvedev vows to defend Russian "compatriots".
-- Saakashvili says the two countries are at war.
August 11 - Russia issues an ultimatum to Georgian forces near Abkhazia to disarm or be attacked. Georgia rejects the demand. Saakashvili says Russia wants to replace his government and control energy routes through the Caucasus. Russia rejects a Georgian ceasefire proposal.
August 12 - Medvedev issues orders to stop fighting in the five-day war in Georgia. Medvedev is quoted as saying that the aggressor has been punished and sustained very serious losses. Russia says its troops will remain in current positions in Georgia. Georgia says it needs more evidence of a Russian halt to operations and will remain prepared for everything.
Re: GEORGIA: FIGHTING RAGES IN S. OSSETIA, RUSSIAN TANKS HEAD FOR BATTLE
Reply #1222 on:
August 12, 2008, 06:37:39 AM »
Quote from: otero1 on August 12, 2008, 05:03:50 AM
Well, to begin with they didn't start it ya know. They were antagonized.
It wouldn't be too hard for any agency to set up another 'incident' in that region to get the ball rolling again. And don't forget that Russia now doesn't want Saakashvili as the president of Georgia. With the (staged?) support of Georgians for their president currently airing on the mainstream media it is anyones guess how that is going to play out.
Posts: 22,124
Re: GEORGIA: FIGHTING RAGES IN S. OSSETIA, RUSSIAN TANKS HEAD FOR BATTLE
Reply #1223 on:
August 12, 2008, 06:53:15 AM »
Monday 11 August 2008
Georgia: the messy truth behind the morality tale
The black-and-white reading of the horrific violence in South Ossetia overlooks the role of the war on terror in destabilising the region.
Brendan ONeill
It is remarkable how quickly other peoples bloody tragedies can be transformed into simple morality tales by Western observers sitting in cushioned, air-conditioned offices.
Almost as soon as the terrible violence broke out in Georgia and South Ossetia, voices in the West were insisting that this was a straightforward tale of a plucky independent republic (Georgia) standing up to a bully wreaking havoc (Russia). Georgia is presented as bravely defending its democratic writ by wishing to hold on to South Ossetia, while Russia is accused of dismembering a nation state by supporting the South Ossetians separatist sensibilities (1). There have been demands for the Western powers, in particular America, to defend Georgia a rare representative of freedom and civilisation in the East (2) and to chastise the Russians. One commentator says Russia should be denied the prestige that comes with membership of the G8 (3).
The problem with this fairytale script that is being cut-and-pasted on to the horrendous massacres of people in South Ossetia and Georgia is that it is almost entirely wrong. Georgia is no free-spirited, democratic republic, but an increasingly authoritarian regime that bans overly critical media outlets and criminalises opposition parties (4). Russia is acting not from an imperialist, expansionist standpoint but out of desperation, behaving recklessly because it feels its sovereign authority challenged by numerous ex-Soviet republics.
And, most importantly, far from Western involvement being the solution in Georgia, there has already been far too much of it: Washingtons arming, goading and cajoling of former Soviet republics has intensified instability across the Caucasus and Central Asia and around the rim of one of the most populous, powerful nations on Earth: Russia.
The bloodshed that occurred over the weekend, as Georgian forces bombed the breakaway territory of South Ossetia and Russia responded by attacking Georgia, can be seen as the destructive outcome of Washingtons increasingly hungry and erratic foreign policy. What is missing from much of the Western morality tale of Georgia vs Russia is any serious assessment of Washingtons role in militarising former Soviet republics and giving a green light to their anti-Russian posturing. From the Ukraine to Uzbekistan to Georgia, Washington has backed a string of dodgy ruling parties and dictatorial leaders as they have upped the ante with their former rulers in the Kremlin. The end result has been more authoritarianism in the East and unpredictability in world affairs.
Georgia, like many of the former Soviet republics, is a state with no real reason to exist. Lacking a unified national elite or identity, it is another of those Caucasian and Central Asian states that were born by default when the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991. It is fragile, changeable, and has various ethnic or national groups within its borders not only in South Ossetia (which wants to join with North Ossetia) but also in Abkhazia, a Black Sea region that has largely run its own affairs since defeating Georgian forces in a war in 1992-1993.
Over the past decade, Washingtons foreign policy increasingly patternless and self-defeating has helped to make the unstable state of affairs in the former Soviet republics worse. America has sought to turn these republics into outposts in its war on terror. On the ostensible basis of protecting Georgia, and the world more broadly, from the threat of al-Qaeda-style Chechen terrorism, Washington has pumped more than £100million into Georgias security forces (5). It has provided the Georgian military with Huey helicopters, tonnes of weaponry, and high-level training just last month it was reported that 1,200 US servicemen and 800 Georgians were undergoing intensive joint military training at the Vaziani military base near the Georgian capital, Tbilisi (6).
Washington has also discussed building vast new anti-missile radar systems in the Czech Republic, Poland, Ukraine and possibly Georgia, in order to guard the Western world against missile attacks from Iran or North Korea; the Kremlin has described these plans as a threat to Russia (7). Georgian troops have been deployed as part of the coalition of the willing in Iraq, and America wants to reward Georgia by making it a permanent member of the NATO alliance. NATO, lest we forget, was founded in a very different era as a North Atlantic alliance against the Soviet Union (
The impact of what we might term Washingtons emotional occupation of the former Soviet republics its celebration of these states as beacons of liberty in the East and brave warriors in the global war on terror has been twofold. First, it has given a blank cheque to isolated, opportunistic, sometimes illegitimate rulers in the former Soviet republics to crack down on their political opponents and media critics. In Georgia and Uzbekistan in particular, both of which have been granted new post-Soviet purpose as frontline states in Americas war on terror, increasingly dictatorial rulers have taken Washingtons political and military backing as a green light to preserve their power by any means necessary.
The American eagle soaring over parts of the Caucasus and Central Asia artificially bolsters certain local elites. The transformation of the republics into life-and-death states in a civilisational war against terror (Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili has said the current clash with Russia is about defending the freedom of the world) allows rulers to take extraordinary measures to protect their internal authority. Last year, Saakashvili clamped down on his political and media opponents by accusing them of plotting a coup and thus effectively aiding terrorism (9). In Uzbekistan in 2005, President Islam Karimov rounded up scores of oppositionists claiming they were sinister Islamic militants. When some Uzbeks rebelled against his authoritarianism freeing local prisoners in the eastern town of Andijan and taking over government buildings the Uzbek military, bolstered by American aid, arms and moral support, had no qualms about opening fire. The terrorisation of former Soviet republics warps their internal dynamic, allowing rulers to present every protest or criticism as part of an Islamic threat that must be put down with their American arms.
Second, Washingtons outposting of former Soviet republics has heightened instability in the East. From the dying years of the Soviet Union, when various Soviet republics began to rediscover their old nationalist identities and cultural heritage, to the often-difficult breakaway process of 1990 and 1991, there have been tensions between Soviet republics and the Kremlin. In many ways, these tensions have been exacerbated and even crystallised made more global and earth-shatteringly serious by Washingtons invitation to some of the former republics to join the Western fold and its war for the preservation of Western civilisation (10). The exportation of the war on terror to the East has added a highly politicised dimension to the unstable relationship between the republics and the Kremlin.
Just as Western backing has encouraged Georgian officials to crush coup-minded oppositionists, so it has bolstered their standoff with the Russians, too. Armed and goaded by Washington, Georgia took the brash, irrational step of launching a real-world military venture to take back South Ossetia from its Russian peacekeepers. And claims by American officials and commentators that Georgia is standing up for important principles such as sovereignty and territorial integrity and that for Washington to abandon Georgia and its fragile democratic Rose Revolution would send a terrible signal to other former Soviet republics that are working towards democracy (11) can no doubt only intensify this grubby local conflict as Western observers cynically attach their pet hopes and ideals to the horrific fighting.
Not surprisingly, Russia has exploited the affair to re-assert its punctured and waning authority in its neighbouring state. Its terrible assaults on Georgian territory and military buildings are an attempt not only to weaken Georgia but also to send a message to the other former Soviet republics and to Washington itself. And anyone with even a C grade in international relations should know that, if Russia were to send forces to Mexico to arm Mexicans and flatter their anti-American sentiments, then Washington would respond in a very similar way.
Events in Georgia and South Ossetia really reveal how patternless and unpredictable is Western foreign policy today. Some radical critics have responded to the Western medias morality tale about brave Georgia battling evil Russia by arguing that, in fact, America has cynically armed the Georgians in order to preserve its oil and gas interests or to start a new global Cold War. Actually, this war in the East demonstrates the clumsy, self-defeating and short-termist nature of Western meddling around the world. Unanchored by any clear self-interest, and unguided by a properly thought-through realpolitik, Washingtons foreign policy in the post-Cold War era appears increasingly erratic, designed to win quickfire boosts to Americas moral standing rather than to influence world affairs in a clear, all-American direction. The end result is that in Georgia, Uzbekistan and elsewhere, the West has created difficulties and new enemies not only for Russia, but for itself too.
Yet many of these awkward facts about the exporting of the war on terror to the East, the corresponding rise in authoritarianism and instability, and both America and Russias rather desperate foreign policies have been suppressed, sometimes knowingly so, in the Western coverage of the Georgia/South Ossetia conflict. As one columnist says, The history behind Georgias frozen conflicts is long and complex but complexity is no excuse for abdicating moral judgement in situations of this importance. (12) In short? Dont let the facts pesky complexity get in the way of a good morality tale. People in South Ossetia and Georgia have suffered the double horror of being attacked, maimed and killed in a conflict unleashed by new post-Cold War instabilities, and then being marshalled like political ghosts in a morality tale that is likely to make things worse.
Brendan ONeill is editor of spiked.
(1) The west can no longer stand idle while the Russian bully wreaks havoc, Guardian, 11 August 2008
(2) Saakashvili Signs Cease-Fire Pledge; Russia Launches New Raids on Georgia, Wall Street Journal, 11 August 2008
(3) The west can no longer stand idle while the Russian bully wreaks havoc, Guardian, 11 August 2008
(4) As Georgia reforms, judiciary under scrutiny, Christian Science Monitor, 17 September 2007
(5) Oil fuels US army role in Georgia, Observer, 12 May 2002
(6) Georgian, US troops start military exercise amid escalating tensions with Russia, International Herald Tribune, 15 July 2008
(7) Russia in Ukraine missile threat, BBC News, 12 February 2008
NATO, Wikipedia
(9) Georgia: espionage charges brought against opposition leaders, Eurasia, 9 November 2007
(10) Oil fuels US army role in Georgia, Observer, 12 May 2002
(11) Stopping Russia, Washington Post, 9 August 2008
(12) The west can no longer stand idle while the Russian bully wreaks havoc, Guardian, 11 August 2008
reprinted from:
Posts: 22,124
Re: GEORGIA: FIGHTING RAGES IN S. OSSETIA, RUSSIAN TANKS HEAD FOR BATTLE
Reply #1224 on:
August 12, 2008, 07:21:19 AM »
Georgia's folly
Tue, 12 Aug 2008
Mikheil Saakashvili, the 40-year-old United States-educated lawyer and president of Georgia, has much to learn about realpolitik and the nature and limitations of state power.
Whether he will remain in office long enough to learn them is, however, another matter.
Last Thursday and Friday the hyperactive and frequently volatile Georgian leader began an adventure that those more experienced in the arts of military provocation could have advised him was likely to have just one outcome.
Four days later, with his forces pummelled, pushed back from South Ossetia, and given a good military hiding, all he could do was entreat the West to intervene on his behalf with the big bad Russian bear.
But the West, despite having shown him support in the past, was not exactly in a hurry to accede.
The problem was that, by most accounts, it was President Saakashvili who, having encountered a degree of sustained provocation, started this rash, unlovely episode.
First, a bit of history: in the wake of the break-up of the Soviet Union, the Ossetians found themselves a people divided - to the north of the Caucasus in Russia, and in the south in Georgia.
The South Ossetians, however, despite sharing territory with Georgians, were more inclined towards Russia and a war ensued in 1990-91, followed by a de facto succession in 1991.
For a decade or so those Georgians who remained and Ossetians co-existed, traded, and got on with life under a generally corrupt leadership more or less supported by Moscow.
Then, in 2004, Mr Saakashvili, openly allied to the United States and the West, came to power on a platform that included reclaiming South Ossetia and Abkhazia for Georgia.
In the meantime, Russia had arguably been annexing Ossetia by stealth, which Georgians inevitably saw as a prelude to possible assaults on their own territorial integrity, and thus provocative in the extreme.
On Thursday night, under the guise of cease-fire with warring Ossetian militia, President Saakashvili, having earlier cut off water supplies, launched an all-out assault on the main town of Tskhinvali.
Perhaps gambling that with world attention on the opening of the Olympic Games in Beijing and with Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin in attendance, he could press home and consolidate Georgian advantage before anyone noticed.
But he gambled wrongly.
The revealing sight over the weekend of a purposeful former president Putin back in Russia and pressing the flesh with an arrary of high ranking military officials was indication enough, for those who have long suspected it, that it is the former president and ex-KGB hard man who still wields the real power in Russia.
And, as with Chechnya, when it comes to matters territorial, he has been shown to be particularly uncompromising.
So it was to prove on this occasion, with the Russian army and airforce taking the opportunity not only to evict Georgian troops from Tskhinvali, but to hammer other Georgian targets for good measure.
United States Vice-president Dick Cheney has spoken out against this "Russian aggression", but elsewhere in the West there has been silence.
There is no mood for involvement in such a territorial spat.
As published in this newspaper yesterday, both sides are behaving badly; it is outrageous that Russia is attacking Georgian towns and airfields.
Restraint is urgently needed.
But the moral of this tragic little story is that if you are going to kick sand in the face of someone several times bigger and more powerful than you, then you had better have persuasive muscle and a pretty good strategic plan to back you up.
President Saakashvili, it appears, had neither.
Not only has he forfeited disputed South Ossetia, probably permanently, it looks as if the other contentious semi-autonomous territory, Abkhazia, will go the same way.
In addition, his precipitous actions have destroyed a good part of the South Ossetian town of Tskhinvali, led to the loss of many lives and unnecessarily created a great deal of social chaos and suffering.
In all likelihood he has stymied Georgian ambitions towards Nato membership and closer alliances with western Europe.
And finally, in a stunning trifecta of own-goals, he has probably sealed his personal fate: in the face of this comprehensive misjudgement with all its counter-productive repercussions, it seems unlikely in the long term that he can survive as Georgian leader.
Yes, there is fault to be laid at Prime Minister Putin's door, and President Saakashvili may well now bleat that the power of Moscow is overwhelming, full of ambitious intent and dangerous to Western democracy, but all he has done through his ill-advised militarism is to consolidate it.
Posts: 2,332
Re: GEORGIA: FIGHTING RAGES IN S. OSSETIA, RUSSIAN TANKS HEAD FOR BATTLE
Reply #1225 on:
August 12, 2008, 07:27:52 AM »
According to staff officers accompanying Colonel-General Anatoly Nogovitsyn returning from the battlefront, at least 7 foreign fighters identified as American and Israel soldiers have been found among the rubble of the now freed, but destroyed, capital city of South Ossetia, Tskhinvali.
The 3 dead American soldiers, these reports state, were identified by their uniform patches as belonging to the United States 173 Airborne Brigade assigned to the US Southern European Command, and who just a few weeks ago were airlifted to Georgia for what was described as a war game exercise with Georgian Military Forces preparing for their unprovoked attack upon the Russian peoples of South Ossetia.
The 4 dead Israeli soldiers, these reports continue, are believed to part of the Israeli governments sponsored mercenary forces who have previously wreaked havoc in the US protected South American puppet state of Colombia, and to which Israel is now its largest weapons supplier.
Israel has, likewise, become the United States choice for funneling weapons to Georgian Military Forces, but are attempting to quickly back away from their part in this most unnecessary war, and as we can read as reported by the Haaretz News Service:
Israel is hoping to maintain a low profile with regard to the war in Georgia, government officials told Haaretz. One source noted that currently, neither side of the conflict is pleased with Israel's position, since Russia has been irked by Israeli-Georgian weapons deals for some time, and Tbilisi is now frustrated by Israel's decision to halt arms exports.
Notice the same old storyline?
Step 1 -- Establish ties with the Country you are seeking to exploit via C.I.A / Contractors.
Step 2 -- Push "The spread of Democracy" in the press to legitimize arming said country.
Step 3 -- Military Industrial Complex begins to FED EX weapons to this country via an Israeli middleman.
Step 4 -- Count yo dollahs as they flow in!!!!!!!
It happens all over different countries, different resources exploited, but ALWAYS U.S. Intelligence/Milt. Complex/Israeli middleman.
Example: $298 million scam to defaud Pentagon & Afghan people via our Israeli Contractor AEY.
Dr. Strangelove: Or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb
Posts: 22,124
Re: GEORGIA: FIGHTING RAGES IN S. OSSETIA, RUSSIAN TANKS HEAD FOR BATTLE
Reply #1226 on:
August 12, 2008, 07:30:08 AM »
Georgia: Attacks continuing despite Russia halt claim
Story Highlights:
NEW: Georgia says attacks have continued despite Russian halt claim
Russian President Dmitry Medvedev calls halt to fighting, report says
Russian troops had advanced further into Georgia from two breakaway regions
Oil giant BP shuts down two pipelines in the region as a precaution
MOSCOW, Russia (CNN) -- Russian President Dmitry Medvedev said Tuesday that he had ordered an end to military operations against Georgia, but Tbilisi reported more attacks after the statement was made.
Medvedev's announcement came minutes before French President Nicolas Sarkozy was to land in Moscow to negotiate terms for a possible cease-fire.
"I have reached a decision to halt the operation to force the Georgian authorities to peace," Medvedev said. "The aggressor has been punished and has incurred very significant losses. Its armed forces are disorganized."
"The statement on the halt of the military action by Russia is the news we had expected. It's good news," Sarkozy said later, according to an Interfax report.
Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin was also involved the talks.
Medvedev's decision would end five days of fighting that began in Georgia's breakaway region of South Ossetia. Watch Georgia's reaction to halt in fighting »
The Georgian government claimed that despite Medvedev's announcement, Russian warplanes struck two villages and military forces bombed an ambulance outside the breakaway province of South Ossetia.
In the Georgian capital of Tbilisi, thousands of citizens engaged in a pro-Georgian rally in front of the parliament building. Watch Georgians rally in Tbilisi »
Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili, who addressed the rally, has accused Russia of provoking the war to justify a full-scale invasion of the former Soviet state. The Russians say Saakashvili attacked first in an attempt to gain control of South Ossetia.
Earlier Tuesday, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said it wanted a demilitarized zone to be created in Georgian territory before a cease-fire could take effect. Watch Lavrov speak about Georgia »
The zone had to be big enough to prevent Georgia's military from again attacking the breakaway province, Lavrov said.
Russian troops who were already in the breakaway province on peacekeeping duty should remain, Lavrov explained, but Georgian troops who were part of that force should not return.
He said it would be best if Saakashvili stepped down as Georgia's leader -- something the president has vowed not to do -- but that Russia was not demanding his resignation.
"We have no plans to throw down any leadership," Lavrov said. "It is not part of our culture. It is not what we do."
However, Lavrov said Moscow did not trust the country's leadership. Watch more on the fighting in South Ossetia »
He said Saakashvili's "barbaric and brutal action" had undermined trust in Georgia.
Meanwhile, the Russian military advanced further into Georgia overnight, heading toward cities outside South Ossetiaand Abkhazia.
From the flashpoint South Ossetia, the Russian military moved south toward the central Georgia city of Gori, Georgia said. Russia said its troops were on the outskirts of the city. Watch a report from Gori as Georgian troops pull out »
Russian troops were also in Senaki, in western Georgia, having advanced from the breakaway area of Abkhazia, Russian and Georgian officials said.
Georgia's security chief Alexander Lomaia said Tuesday that Russian troops had left Senaki but remained on the outskirts of Zugdidi and around Gori, The Associated Press reported. Interactive map: See how far the Russians have advanced »
Lomaia said Russian aircraft bombed Gori on Tuesday morning, targeting administrative buildings and a street market in the center, AP reported.
A Dutch cameraman was killed on Tuesday morning in an incident in Gori, the Dutch Foreign Ministry confirmed. He was identified as Stan Storimans, of RTL TV. The correspondent who accompanied him was also injured. There were no immediate details about the incident. Watch more on Georgia's defense »
An Georgian Interior Ministry official added that Russian bombs hit one of the three pipelines carrying oil to the Black Sea port of Poti. There was no oil in the pipeline at the time, the ministry official said.
UK-based engery giant BP later said it had shut down two oil pipelines in the region as a "precautionary measure" linked to the security situation.
Georgia, a pro-Western ally of the U.S., is intent on asserting its authority over South Ossetia and Abkhazia, both of which have strong Russian-backed separatist movements.
The situation in South Ossetia escalated rapidly from Thursday night, when Georgia said it launched an operation into the region after artillery fire from separatists killed 10 people. It accused Russia of backing the separatists.
CNN's Matthew Chance in Tskhinvali, Frederick Pleitgen in Tbilisi, Richard Roth and Joe Vaccarello contributed to this report.
Copyright 2008 CNN. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. Associated Press contributed to this report.
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Watch Georgia's reaction to halt in fighting »
Watch Georgians rally in Tbilisi »
Watch Lavrov speak about Georgia »
Watch more on the fighting in South Ossetia »
South Ossetia
Watch a report from Gori as Georgian troops pull out »
Interactive map: See how far the Russians have advanced »
Watch more on Georgia's defense »
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Posts: 858
Re: GEORGIA: FIGHTING RAGES IN S. OSSETIA, RUSSIAN TANKS HEAD FOR BATTLE
Reply #1227 on:
August 12, 2008, 07:33:14 AM »
Quote from: Aerioch on August 12, 2008, 07:27:52 AM
Notice the same old storyline?
Step 1 -- Establish ties with the Country you are seeking to exploit via C.I.A / Contractors.
Step 2 -- Push "The spread of Democracy" in the press to legitimize arming said country.
Step 3 -- Military Industrial Complex begins to FED EX weapons to this country via an Israeli middleman.
Step 4 -- Count yo dollahs as they flow in!!!!!!!
It happens all over different country, different resources exploited, but also U.S. Intelligence/Milt. Complex/Israeli middleman.
Isn't it great!?! Our tax dollars help build the weapons. Then we turn around and sell them to make a profit both monetarily and politically. Sound a little like the mob, no?
Globalist Destroyer
Global Moderator
Posts: 11,537
The banksters are steaming piles of dog shit!
Re: GEORGIA: FIGHTING RAGES IN S. OSSETIA, RUSSIAN TANKS HEAD FOR BATTLE
Reply #1228 on:
August 12, 2008, 07:38:16 AM »
Georgia says bombings continue after Russian order
12 minutes ago
TBILISI, Georgia (AP) Russia ordered a halt to military action in Georgia on Tuesday, after five days of air and land attacks sent Georgia's army into headlong retreat and left towns and military bases destroyed. More than 2,000 people were reported killed.
Georgian officials insisted that Russia has continued the bombings despite the pledge, but Russia denied that.
Hours before the Russian announcement, Russian forces bombed the crossroads city of Gori and launched an offensive in the part of separatist Abkhazia still under Georgian control, sending in 135 military vehicles including tanks and tightening the assault on the beleaguered nation.
Gori was all but deserted late Monday most remaining residents and Georgian soldiers fled ahead of a feared Russian onslaught.
In Tskhinvali, South Ossetia's provincial capital, the body of a Georgian soldier lay in the street along with debris and shattered glass. A poster hanging nearby showed Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin and the slogan "Say yes to peace and stability" as South Ossetian separatist fighters launched rockets at a Georgian plane soaring overhead.
The death toll was expected to rise, for large areas of Georgia were too dangerous for journalists to enter. Tens of thousands of terrified residents have fled the fighting South Ossetians north to Russia, and Georgians west toward the capital of Tbilisi and the country's Black Sea coast.
Russian President Dmitry Medvedev said on national television that Georgia had been punished enough for its attack on South Ossetia. Georgia launched an offensive late Thursday to regain control over the separatist Georgian province, which has close ties to Russia.
"The aggressor has been punished and suffered very significant losses. Its military has been disorganized," Medvedev said.
"If there are any emerging hotbeds of resistance or any aggressive actions, you should take steps to destroy them," he ordered his defense minister at a televised Kremlin meeting.
The British oil company BP shut down one of three Georgian pipelines as a precaution. Georgia sits on a strategic oil pipeline carrying Caspian crude to Western markets bypassing Russia, has long been a source of contention between the West and a resurgent Russia, which is seeking to strengthen its role as the dominant energy supplier to the continent.
Russia's foreign minister called for Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili to resign and Medvedev said Georgia must pull its troops from South Ossetia and Abkhazia the two Russian-backed breakaway provinces at the heart of the dispute.
More than 2,000 people have been reported killed in the fighting, but the death toll was expected to rise, for large areas of Georgia were too dangerous for journalists to enter. Tens of thousands of terrified residents have fled the fighting South Ossetians north to Russia, and Georgians west toward the capital of Tbilisi and the country's Black Sea coast.
Russian forces opened a second battlefront in western Georgia on Monday, moving deep into Georgian territory from the separatist province of Abkhazia. They seized a military base in the town of Senaki and occupied police precincts in the town of Zugdidi.
On Tuesday, an Associated Press reporter counted 135 Russian military vehicles included tanks, armored personnel carriers and three pieces of artillery driving through Georgia toward Kodori Gorge. The northern part of the gorge is the only part of the separatist region of Abkhazia still held by Georgian forces, but they have come under attack in recent days.
Russian forces opened the second battlefront in western Georgia on Monday, moving deep into Georgian territory from Abkhazia.
Scores of Georgians have fled the area.
"It feels like an annexed country," said Lasha Margiana, the local administrator in one of the villages in Kodori.
People said that many homes were damaged by shelling and that the entire population of the gorge, some 3,000 people, had left.
"We left when the shelling started, we don't have food," said Madlena Guarmiani, one of the refugees, who said they had no time to pack food or belongings.
In central Georgia, Russian troops advanced into Georgia from the other separatist province, South Ossetia, taking positions near Gori on the main east-west highway as terrified civilians. Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili said his country had effectively been cut in half.
Gori's post office and university were still burning Tuesday, said Georgian officials, who claimed six died in the overnight bombing. RTL television news, a Dutch station, reported that at least five people were killed when Russian warplanes bombed Gori, including its cameraman.
Georgia borders the Black Sea between Turkey and Russia and was ruled by Moscow for most of the two centuries preceding the 1991 breakup of the Soviet Union. South Ossetia and Abkhazia have run their own affairs without international recognition since fighting to split from Georgia in the early 1990s.
Both separatist provinces are backed by Russia. Russian officials had given signals that the fighting could pave the way for them to be absorbed into Russia.
Saakashvili on Tuesday made plans to shed a vestige of Soviet times, saying he has asked Parliament to take action to leave the Russia-dominated alliance of ex-Soviet nations called the Commonwealth of Independent States.
The situation in Tskhinvali, the capital of South Ossetia, remained tense Tuesday as sporadic fighting and artillery duels continued, but the city was in the control of Russian army and South Ossetian forces.
In the villages once populated by ethnic Georgians on the outskirts of Tskhinvali, South Ossetian fighters reportedly set fire to Georgian houses, and carried out searches in the villages.
As he started talks with French President Nicolas Sarkozy, Medvedev said Georgia must pull its troops from the breakaway regions and pledge not to use force again to solve the conflict.
The U.N. and NATO had called meetings Tuesday to deal with the conflict, which quickly developed into an East-West crisis that raised fears in former Soviet bloc nations of Eastern Europe.
Poland's president and the leaders of four ex-Soviet republics headed to Georgia for a meeting with Saakashvili to send a signal of solidarity with Tbilisi.
"We may say that the Russian state has once again shown its face, its true face," said Poland's Lech Kaczynski, who will be joined by counterparts from Lithuania, Estonia, Ukraine and Latvia.
But he said it was "good news" that Medvedev ordered a halt to military action.
Russian deputy chief of General Staff Anatoly Nogovitsyn dismissed Georgian reports that Russian warplanes Tuesday again bombed a pipeline carrying crude to the West. He said Russian planes never targeted the pipeline and accused Georgia of spreading false reports in order to rally anti-Russian sentiments in the West.
BP also said the company had no reports of pipeline damage but said the company has shut down the 90,000-barrel-a-day oil pipeline running through Georgia's center from Baku on the Caspian Sea to Supsa on the Black Sea coast.
Nogovitsyn said Russian troops were not in Gori but confirmed they have taken control of an airport in Senaki. Senaki is 30 miles east of Abkhazia.
President Bush had demanded Monday that Russia end a "dramatic and brutal escalation" of violence in Georgia, agree to an immediate cease-fire and accept international mediation.
"Russia has invaded a sovereign neighboring state and threatens a democratic government elected by its people. Such an action is unacceptable in the 21st century," Bush said in a televised statement from the White House.
Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said more than 2,000 people have been killed in South Ossetia since Friday, most of them Ossetians with Russian passports.
The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people,
it's an instrument for the people to restrain the government. Patrick Henry
Global Gulag Media & Forum
Posts: 13
Re: GEORGIA: FIGHTING RAGES IN S. OSSETIA, RUSSIAN TANKS HEAD FOR BATTLE
Reply #1229 on:
August 12, 2008, 07:41:34 AM »
Sorry to sound thick. But here I am waiting for some Iran War to start then suddenly the news is flooded with Russia/Georgia. I don't really understand what this conflict is about. Can any one sum it up quickly? Is the NWO Involved (stupid question). Is this really a prelude of More to come? A smoke screen for Americas inevitable attack on Iran?
"Our society is run by insane people for insane objectives. I think we're being run by maniacs for maniacal ends and I think I'm liable to be put away as insane for expressing that. That's what's insane about it"
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Re: GEORGIA: FIGHTING RAGES IN S. OSSETIA, RUSSIAN TANKS HEAD FOR BATTLE
Reply #1230 on:
August 12, 2008, 07:42:20 AM »
Russia looking to Georgia to respond officially
RBC, 12.08.2008, Moscow 16:55:17.Russia is trying to retain control over the situation, and is looking to the Georgian side to respond to its putting an end to the campaign, Deputy Chief of General Staff of Russia's Armed Forced Anatoly Nogovitsyn said. He added that this was an official statement made by Russia's President Dmitry Medvedev, and it has already elicited response from world leaders.
Nogovitsyn explained that the mission's objective now was to maintain control, and provocations would not be left unpunished.
The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people,
it's an instrument for the people to restrain the government. Patrick Henry
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Re: GEORGIA: FIGHTING RAGES IN S. OSSETIA, RUSSIAN TANKS HEAD FOR BATTLE
Reply #1231 on:
August 12, 2008, 07:46:38 AM »
Quote from: chaosrules on August 12, 2008, 07:41:34 AM
Sorry to sound thick. But here I am waiting for some Iran War to start then suddenly the news is flooded with Russia/Georgia. I don't really understand what this conflict is about. Can any one sum it up quickly? Is the NWO Involved (stupid question). Is this really a prelude of More to come? A smoke screen for Americas inevitable attack on Iran?
I don't think anyone knows. Propaganda is flying on all sides. We're waiting to see where this leads.
Posts: 2,348
Re: GEORGIA: FIGHTING RAGES IN S. OSSETIA, RUSSIAN TANKS HEAD FOR BATTLE
Reply #1232 on:
August 12, 2008, 07:47:50 AM »
BP shuts down Georgia pipelines
Energy giant BP says it has shut two of three pipelines that run through Georgia as a precautionary measure.
A spokeswoman for the firm said the oil and gas pipelines, which run from the Caspian Sea into Georgia, had not been damaged by the recent fighting.
The oil pipeline, which BP owns as part of a consortium, can carry up to 90,000 barrels of oil per day.
Another oil pipeline, which runs from Azerbaijan through southern Georgia into Turkey, is already shut.
The closure comes as the International Energy Agency (IEA) warned that the conflict posed a threat to key oil and gas pipelines that pass through Georgia.
The IEA said that Georgia was of strategic importance to energy markets but that so far oil prices "had not been materially affected".
BP said it had closed the Western Route Export Pipeline (WREP), which runs from Baku on the Caspian Sea in Azerbaijan to the Georgian Black Sea port of Supsa, this morning.
It has also shut the South Caucasus gas pipeline which runs from the Caspian Sea, through Georgia, into Turkey.
The larger Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan (BTC) oil pipeline has been closed since early August following an explosion on the eastern Turkish section of the line.
It is the world's second-largest pipeline and runs from Azerbaijan through southern Georgia into Turkey. It can transport up to 1.2 million barrels of oil a day.
"Renewed flows through Georgia could be further delayed if the line is damaged during the Russia-Georgia conflict," the IEA said in its monthly report.
It added that the outage and the eruption of hostilities highlighted the potentially precarious nature of pipeline energy supplies in the region.
BP has a 30% stake in the BTC pipeline.
It had been hoped that transporting oil through the region would make the West less dependent on supplies from Russia.
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Re: GEORGIA: FIGHTING RAGES IN S. OSSETIA, RUSSIAN TANKS HEAD FOR BATTLE
Reply #1233 on:
August 12, 2008, 08:05:21 AM »
Quote from: Capt. Obvious on August 12, 2008, 07:46:38 AM
I don't think anyone knows. Propaganda is flying on all sides. We're waiting to see where this leads.
Following this conflict for a long time ( 5-6 years) it's evident why its taking place. It was inevitable.
This is western imperial ambitions vs. Russian imperial ambitions. Ever since the break-up of the USSR the west has been boxing in Russia.
I suspect that the major reason for it is that since Russia supplies most of Europe with about half of its natural gas and a good chunk of its petroleum, European policy will always somewhat depend on Russian acceptance. This is a big blow for the western wing of the NWO.
Georgia is especially important because it is a key region for pipelines whose purpose is to avoid running through Russian territory and thus avoid Russian influence on Europe. Of course Russia doesn't want this because it knows that militarily nor politically will it ever be stronger than the NATO/Western (US/G.B./ Germany/Japan being the big players) Alliance. They can be comparable to NATO militarily and make any conflict very expensive but they can never actually defeat NATO short of nuclear war. Likewise, politically they will never have more wealthy nations on their side than the NATO/Western alliance.
The big reason here is the US. I don't think many realize just how extremely well situated the US is geographically. It is virtually impossible to invade the US mainland because it is extremely easy to defend it. Therefore the US will ALWAYS be a world power as long as it wants to. The only thing that can kill the US is the US itself.
Furthermore more and this is VERY important, Russia is deathly afraid of China. It knows that sooner or later there will be problems with China.
China has an overabundance of men and history shows whenever that is the case war soon follows because its either rebellions at home or war abroad. The eastern half of Russia is very sparsely populated but contains many resources. There are also many ethnic Chinese living there. I think we see what can happen. Also, threats of nuclear war to China mean nothing. In fact the Chinese government may even welcome it because they know in the end they can win, even a nuclear war, solely based on population. Therefore making nuclear threats to China is useless and Russia knows this.
In essence this is Russia fighting for its life. Either it remains a viable player on the world stage aka "exploiter of others (just like all powers are)" or its relegated to the status of "just another nation with many resources" that will be exploited.
The goal of the west is not to destroy Russia. It is to make it insignificant.
Posts: 313
Re: GEORGIA: FIGHTING RAGES IN S. OSSETIA, RUSSIAN TANKS HEAD FOR BATTLE
Reply #1234 on:
August 12, 2008, 08:06:22 AM »
hmm why would they close the pipeline now after most of the fighting is over, maybe it has something to do with iran?
Posts: 22,124
Re: GEORGIA: FIGHTING RAGES IN S. OSSETIA, RUSSIAN TANKS HEAD FOR BATTLE
Reply #1235 on:
August 12, 2008, 08:08:07 AM »
Roots of Georgia-Russia clash run deep
The war broadened Monday as Russian troops moved beyond rebel provinces into Georgia proper.
By Fred Weir | Correspondent of The Christian Science Monitor
and Paul Rimple | Contributor in Tbilisi, Georgia
and John Wendle | Contributor in Vladikavkaz, North Ossetia
from the August 12, 2008 edition
MOSCOW - Ancient ethnic strife, fanned by East-West rivalry and Moscow's growing regional ambitions, lie behind the war over Georgia's breakaway regions of South Ossetia and Abkhazia, where Russian troops opened a second front Monday.
For dozens of young Ossetian men lined up at a Russian Army recruitment center in the North Ossetian capital of Vladikavkaz, the conflict is a replay of endless clashes with their traditional foe: Georgia. For Georgians, whose forces are retrenching after failing to retake the separatist province of South Ossetia, the war appears just the latest futile effort to unite their country against what they see as Moscow's neocolonial designs.
US and Russian diplomats, who sparred angrily over the crisis at a United Nations session Sunday, were falling back into the language and passions of their long, bitter cold-war standoff.
"This conflict has very deep and complicated roots," says analyst Alexei Malashenko at the Carnegie Center in Moscow. "It was Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili who started it, hoping to redraw the whole situation with one sweeping action. But if it goes on for much longer, it is likely that there will be no winners, and Russia will suffer very badly, too."
The war, which began with a lightning Georgian offensive Friday aimed at ending secessionist South Ossetia's 16-year-old de facto independence, prompted a Russian military intervention which, by Monday, had put Russian forces in full control of the region. The West worries that Moscow's true goal is to subjugate pro-West Georgia and overthrow its democratically elected president, Mr. Saakashvili. In a Wall Street Journal opinion piece on Monday, Saakashvili warned that if Moscow's drive succeeds, Western influence in the region will be defunct.
Hours after President Dmitri Medvedev asserted Monday that Russia's limited "peace mission" in South Ossetia was nearly over, Russian troops rolled into Georgia proper. The move into the western town of Senaki, which lies well over Georgia's buffer zone with Abkhazia, opened a second front in the conflict. At press time, Russia had also moved into the Georgian town of Gori, just outside South Ossetia.
British Prime Minister Gordon Brown urged Russia Monday to accept a cease-fire that Georgia had signed, saying there is "no justification for continued Russian military action in Georgia, which threatens the stability of the entire region and risks a humanitarian catastrophe."
Russian experts say that Moscow seeks to blunt US influence in the region and halt the eastward expansion of NATO into the former Soviet Union. Beyond that, it is likely to become the main arbiter of disputes in its area, including Georgia.
"Russia is moving toward an analagous role [vis-à-vis South Ossetia] to that which the US plays when it, for example, guarantees the security of Taiwan against attack by mainland China," says Vladimir Zharikhin, deputy director of the official Institute of Commonwealth of Independent States Studies in Moscow. "But this situation is beginning to look too much like a direct clash between Russia and the US," which has strongly taken Georgia's side, he adds.
Whatever the outcome, the conflict has already inflamed old hatreds and its consequences seem likely to reverberate destructively around the entire multinational Caucasus region, which was conquered by Russia in the 19th century and later divvied into ethnically defined cantons by Soviet social engineers.
Why Ossetians want Georgia out
The Ossetians, who claim to have inhabited the same territory for centuries, say their nation was broken in two by Soviet dictator Joseph Stalin, who awarded South Ossetia to the Georgian Soviet republic against the Ossetians' will. (Stalin also took away Abkhazia's independence and made it an autonomous republic within Georgia.) As the USSR was collapsing, Ossetians fought a brutal war of independence against Georgia, which ended in a three-way peacekeeping agreement in 1992. Under that deal, Russian, Georgian, and South Ossetian forces were to jointly guarantee security until a final settlement was reached.
The arrangement collapsed in a hail of artillery fire and bombs last Friday.
"This is an historical problem. My great-grandmother told me that in the 1920s she saw Georgians massacring the South Ossetians," says Gavril Guzitayev, one of many young Ossetian men gathered Monday at Vladikavkaz's main recruiting center. "She said they came in fast on horses and attacked with sabres."
Along with other young men waiting to sign up for the Russian army and fight in South Ossetia, Mr. Guzitayev says "after all this, I don't believe Ossetians and Georgians can live together.... I just want a machine gun, and to ... stand beside my brothers."
Many Georgians argue there that South Ossetia is actually the ancient Georgian territory of Samochablo, given by the Soviets to Ossetian settlers for aiding the Bolsheviks in crushing Georgian independence in the 1920s. They point out that Georgia, which emerged as a sovereign state from the ruins of the USSR in 1991, enjoys full rights to the territory under international law.
Georgia has offered limited autonomy to South Ossetia and Abkhazia, but both have declined. In 2006, South Ossetians voted overwhemingly for independence in a referendum, which Georgia denounced as illegal.
"Only the state has the right to grant independence to a territory," says Archil Gegeshidze, analyst with the independent Georgian Foundation for Strategic and International Studies in Tbilisi. "The principle of self-determination is superseded by the right of the state."
Why Georgia wants South Ossetia back
Many Georgians say they still believe the only course is for South Ossetia to rejoin Georgia. "The nation has the right to control its territory," says Giorgi Margvelashvili, a researcher at the Georgian Institute of Public Affairs, a nongovernmental group in Tbilisi. "Reconciliation will be a long, painful process before we can find common ground, especially as one regional superpower wants us to remain enemies. Reaching understanding won't be done by politics, but by a human process."
Russia has accused Georgia of committing "genocide" in its assault on the rebel republic, which they say killed at least 2,000 civilians and displaced 34,000.
Western human rights monitors caution that it's too early to make any judgments about what happened. But Lev Ponomaryov, head of the Moscow-based Movement for Human Rights, says he hopes the West will hold Saakashvili's feet to the fire on this issue.
"I can't say whether this is a case of genocide, but it certainly is a humanitarian catastrophe," he says. "The methods Saakashvili used to establish constitutional order have to be condemned by the international community."
Georgia-Russia conflict: 2008 timeline
April 3 NATO agrees that Georgia and Ukraine can one day join the alliance.
April 16 Russia orders semiofficial ties with separatists in Georgian provinces of Abkhazia and South Ossetia.
April 20 Georgian spy drone shot down over Abkhazia. UN later blames Russia.
April 29 Russia sends extra troops to Abkhazia.
May 6 Georgia says that move has brought them to brink of war.
July 8 Russian fighter jets fly into Georgian airspace to "cool hotheads in Tbilisi."
Aug. 7 Georgian troops invade South Ossetia after a truce with rebels breaks down.
Aug. 8 Russia repels the assault.
Aug. 10 Georgia proposes a cease-fire.
Aug. 11 Russia rejects the cease-fire and issues an ultimatum to Georgian forces near Abkhazia to disarm or be attacked. Georgia rejects the demand. Russian troops move into Senaki, a city in Georgia proper.
Source: Reuters
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Posts: 13
Re: GEORGIA: FIGHTING RAGES IN S. OSSETIA, RUSSIAN TANKS HEAD FOR BATTLE
Reply #1236 on:
August 12, 2008, 08:09:30 AM »
Thanks for that Cobra
"Our society is run by insane people for insane objectives. I think we're being run by maniacs for maniacal ends and I think I'm liable to be put away as insane for expressing that. That's what's insane about it"
John Lennon
Re: GEORGIA: FIGHTING RAGES IN S. OSSETIA, RUSSIAN TANKS HEAD FOR BATTLE
Reply #1237 on:
August 12, 2008, 08:15:23 AM »
Quote from: Triadtropz on August 12, 2008, 05:14:38 AM
If bush and the CIA are behind the attack on ossetia, they belong in a war crimes tribunal....bush is like a teflon war criminal though..you cant touch him?..
Bush is just a ribbon cutter at this point--the regime has been swapped out for--Zbigniew Brzezinski's group (also they are behind the Obama puppet)
Zbig's fingerprints are all over this Georgian/Russian conflict...
"The most influential response to this situation is the one articulated by Zbigniew Brzezinski, the dean of the Democratic Party foreign policy establishment going back to the Jimmy Carter regime and even earlier.
Brzezinskis name is associated with a new strategy which calls for a de-emphasis of the Middle East in favor of a global approach to crushing the power of Russia and China once and for all
This article sums up Tarpley's view nicely:
Historical Changes In False Flag Terrorism
What we need to know for 2008-2009
Webster Tarpley on Jack Blood's Deadline Live
yesterday meaning--it is running most of todayon on-demand until it is replaced by the new show of today (usually 3-6 hours behind).
Excellent report--Jerome Corsi comes on second hour with Webster as they dissect these issues and Obama.
Use your favorite media player to listen--
Posts: 2,830
Re: GEORGIA: FIGHTING RAGES IN S. OSSETIA, RUSSIAN TANKS HEAD FOR BATTLE
Reply #1238 on:
August 12, 2008, 08:45:57 AM »
The RT feed is back up and Sarkozy and Medvedev are holding a press conference now. Sarkozy is squirming like a child when Medvedev is making cogent, straightforward points. Sarkozy just brought up the need to do this in a world court and the reasons we want this 'world order'....
"The Bible tells us to be like God, and then on page after page it describes God as a mass murderer. This may be the single most important key to the political behavior of Western Civilization."
-Robert Anton Wilson
FearMonger 888:
Posts: 2,348
Re: GEORGIA: FIGHTING RAGES IN S. OSSETIA, RUSSIAN TANKS HEAD FOR BATTLE
Reply #1239 on:
August 12, 2008, 08:49:11 AM »
Who is Sarkozy anyway?
if not just a manipulated powerless clown.
Quote from: dogmadestroyer on August 12, 2008, 08:45:57 AM
The RT feed is back up and Sarkozy and Medvedev are holding a press conference now. Sarkozy is squirming like a child when Medvedev is making cogent, straightforward points. Sarkozy just brought up the need to do this in a world court and the reasons we want this 'world order'....
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===> Abortion is a key part of the eugenics agenda
=> Chemtrails/Geo-Engineering
=> Missing Children/Torture/Rape/Satanic Ritual Abuse
===> CASE STUDY: Baby Cheyenne and the CPS Terrorist Network
=> Mind Control
=> Vaccine information
=> Depopulation
=> Dehumanization
===> Census is only to find out number of citizens for distribution of congressional representatives
=> Technology
=> Alternative Energy
=> Project Blue Beam
=> Fluoridation
=> Microwave Weapons
=> Space Based Weapons Technology
===> CASE STUDY: US Nuclear Missle Defense Space Weapon Test
=> NWO Cultish Foundations/Symbolism/Networks/Hijacked Religions
===> Wars, Revolutions and Genocide
===> Discussions concerning religious texts
===> Genuine philosophy discussions
=> Alt Health/Natural Food/Survival
=> FAKE WARS:Terror/Drugs/Education/Pandemic/Peak Oil Lies
===> The war on Drugs is complete BS
Multimedia and other resources
=> Video
=> Audio
=> Books / Literature / Declassified Documents
=> The Official Stanley Kubrick Movie Forum
=> South Park
DMCA Notice
=> Digital Millennium Copyright Act